The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2367 - Jesse Welles

00:00:03.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:12.000 Cheers, Mike.

00:00:13.000 Cheers to you.

00:00:14.000 Nice to meet you, Mac.

00:00:15.000 Good to meet you.

00:00:18.000 I've enjoyed your songs.

00:00:19.000 How did you...

00:00:25.000 Um, I think most of my life, you know?

00:00:31.000 Did you grow up in a musical family, or is it just something you picked up on your own?

00:00:35.000 No, I, everyone, what, Oh, okay.

00:00:44.000 But no music, really.

00:00:48.000 But I liked music.

00:00:50.000 Like what kind of art did your family do?

00:00:52.000 Like my mom would always paint. 0.94

00:00:54.000 She put like murals on the walls of the house and stuff.

00:00:59.000 And my old man's mechanic.

00:01:02.000 And he would be tinkering around, making all sorts of fun stuff, usually with his welder and whatnot.

00:01:10.000 So I felt like they were artistic folks, you know, but they didn't., they didn't necessarily do music.

00:01:20.000 They're smarter than that.

00:01:22.000 And so I only know of you from the videos that you put up on Instagram.

00:01:27.000 And specifically, I think it was the United Healthcare guy was the first one, right?

00:01:31.000 Which was really good, dude.

00:01:33.000 It's the lyrics and the timing of it all, you captured the moment. 0.98

00:01:39.000 And that song to me was like, yeah, that's what the fuck is going on. 0.99

00:01:45.000 That's what's really going on. 1.00

00:01:46.000 They don't give a shit about you and they're just trying to make money. 0.99

00:01:49.000 And that's why when this guy got shot, there was this reaction from people which is very rare when someone gets assassinated when people celebrate right when someone's not like a mass murderer or something it was bizarre it was bizarre it's it's it's I mean it must mean something is up if people are celebrating yes somebody's death yes something is wrong and all kind across both sides of the aisle it's not a political thing it is a human thing yeah like these people they take your fucking money you pay them 0.99

00:02:20.000 and then when something comes up you don't get covered and there doesn't seem to be any repercussions and to fight it you have to go to court and you usually don't have the money to go to court and they have a lot of fucking money. 0.95

00:02:33.000 And they, you know, have been doing this for a long time.

00:02:36.000 And now they're using AI to make sure that they pay less.

00:02:41.000 So they're using AI to prove cases.

00:02:44.000 And the numbers are even lower than they were before.

00:02:46.000 So United Healthcare always had a lower number than industry standard, right?

00:02:50.000 Yeah.

00:02:51.000 Now it's even with with AI they're going to be able to chop it down to even lower.

00:02:55.000 It's like, at what point in time does this become against the law?

00:02:58.000 Like, at what point in time is this like, it's a con game.

00:03:03.000 Like, you're paying, you're thinking you're going to get covered, and they're like, nah.

00:03:09.000 The system would have to be revolution.

00:03:11.000 I mean, you can't have health for profit at that point.

00:03:14.000 You'd have to socialize the medicine at some point.

00:03:18.000 Which I agree with up until a point.

00:03:20.000 The problem is human nature.

00:03:22.000 And like if you like if you hurt your shoulder and you want to get it, you need to get an operation on your shoulder.

00:03:27.000 You want to go to a guy who does the Lakers.

00:03:29.000 You know what I mean? 1.00

00:03:30.000 You want to go to a guy who is like this motherfucker is the cream of the crop. 1.00

00:03:35.000 He is dialed in. 0.99

00:03:36.000 He's been doing this forever.

00:03:37.000 He's super focused and motivated. 1.00

00:03:39.000 And he drives a fucking Mercedes, right? 0.99

00:03:41.000 The reason why he drives a Mercedes is he makes a lot of money doing what he's doing. 1.00

00:03:44.000 Yeah.

00:03:44.000 You don't want someone to not feel appreciated, not have.

00:03:48.000 have the motivation to continue to get really great at their craft.

00:03:53.000 Like there's a thing with just human beings.

00:03:57.000 There's a financial motivation that people have because it's a quantitative thing.

00:04:01.000 You could see it on a ledger.

00:04:03.000 You know that you're making more money because you're doing this and you're working harder and you're getting this reward, whether or not it makes sense or not.

00:04:10.000 As soon as you eliminate that and everyone gets the same amount of money and then you lose all the killers.

00:04:16.000 You lose all the No, all I mean is that you just don't want to have to go to an urgent care and it costs $500 to get a pack of antibiotics.

00:04:22.000 100%.

00:04:24.000 Well, that's a gi scam that so many folks are stuck in, you know? 1.00

00:04:30.000 That's only part of the scam.

00:04:32.000 You know, the healthcare scam, it goes so deep. 1.00

00:04:35.000 There's so many different layers to this fucking horrible den of vampires. 1.00

00:04:41.000 Right. 0.99

00:04:42.000 You know, because it's whenever you can make profit from people and you're involved in a corporation and then the corporation has an interest for, its stockholders want more money every year.

00:04:55.000 They want more money every quarter.

00:04:57.000 So that's what they try to do.

00:04:58.000 That's their focus.

00:05:00.000 And when you're doing that with people's lives and people's health, like that, that should be illegal. 0.99

00:05:06.000 That's where it gets fucked. 0.93

00:05:07.000 I suppose that's why folks were, you know, it was, it was upsetting to see, you know, I felt like I actually had kind of an unpopular opinion about it and that why, you know, why are we celebrating somebody's death? 0.99

00:05:22.000 Like that seems far out to celebrate the murder of somebody with a gun.

00:05:31.000 Not only that, I believe unrelated to him in his case.

00:05:35.000 Like, I mean, how far out is that?

00:05:40.000 And so I've, I didn't want, you know, I'd, I make, I make these tunes, but that one in particular., I was like, how do I even how do I adjust this?

00:05:53.000 What do you even say?

00:05:54.000 So that I So how do you approach something like that?

00:05:56.000 Do you sit down with a pad and pen or do you start writing?

00:05:59.000 Like how do you how do you start singing?

00:06:01.000 Step one is of avoid the work.

00:06:03.000 So I went for, you know, some long jogs.

00:06:10.000 I wrote a song about Amazon instead and put up like Amazon is Santa Claus.

00:06:17.000 It kept sitting there and it kept getting, you know, the situation was snowballing with the United Healthcare thing.

00:06:24.000 And I was like, okay, you got to write.

00:06:26.000 And at that point, it's a research project.

00:06:29.000 You know, let's write 2,000 words so that we can have 300 to sing and boil down the essence of the issue and make it rhyme and put a jolly tune behind it.

00:06:47.000 That's really, that's kind of how that goes about.

00:06:50.000 That sounds like super similar to stand-up comedy.

00:06:52.000 You boil it down.

00:06:55.000 yeah yeah get every and and you don't it's just punch linlines.

00:07:03.000 So find the punchline of everything.

00:07:05.000 Find the punchline of everything.

00:07:06.000 I never had the attention span to tell too much of a story or anything like that.

00:07:11.000 So I like just keeping it in punchlines.

00:07:14.000 So I always like, you know, Mitch Hedberg and Stephen Wright, we're so good at that.

00:07:22.000 Just come out and lay out a bunch of punchlines immediately.

00:07:25.000 If one doesn't land, on to the next one.

00:07:28.000 Well, their whole...

00:07:41.000 It's a crazy way to do comedy.

00:07:42.000 Yeah.

00:07:43.000 But when you're an absurdist, it's probably the best way because it's an absurd way of thinking, right?

00:07:48.000 You're just going from one subject to the next in each minute burst, you know?

00:07:52.000 Somebody asked me if I want a frozen banana and I said, no, but I want a regular banana later, so yes.

00:08:01.000 Yeah. 0.90

00:08:02.000 That's like such a ridiculous joke. 0.56

00:08:06.000 I used to love listening to him, in particular when I was in traffic, because it would chill me out. 0.99

00:08:12.000 Like if I was headed to the airport in LA and it was just fucking cluster fuck on the highway, I'd just throw on some Mitch Hedberg and just start giggling. 0.99

00:08:20.000 It's just silly. 0.99

00:08:22.000 You know?

00:08:23.000 He's one of the coolest.

00:08:25.000 He was awesome.

00:08:28.000 Let's play that song.

00:08:29.000 Jamie, can you find that one?

00:08:30.000 The United Healthcare song?

00:08:32.000 I want to play it so people know what we're talking about.

00:08:34.000 So people...

00:08:46.000 In United Health, there ain't no me.

00:08:49.000 In the company, there ain't no us in the private trust.

00:08:53.000 There's hardly humans in humanity.

00:08:55.000 Now the procedure that you're needing ain't the cost effective route and only two percent of people end up winning a dispute.

00:09:01.000 So if you get sick, pray to God for help because your doctor's gotta pray to United Health.

00:09:08.000 Way back in 1977, mister Richard T. Burke started buying HMOs putting federal grants to work, named 50 billion buckaroos.

00:09:17.000 Last year the Warren Buffett of help the Jeff Bezos of fear Now CEOs come and go and want just win the ingredients you got bake the cake you get But if you get sick cross your fingers for luck because old Richard T. Burke ain't given a buck Commodityized health monopolized fraud Here's the doctors we own and the research we bought they own the far pharmacies and a lot of the medics.

00:09:41.000 They should start buying graves to sell us when we're all dead.

00:09:44.000 There ain't no you in United Health.

00:09:47.000 There ain't no me in the company.

00:09:50.000 There ain't no us in the private trust.

00:09:52.000 There's hardly humans in humanity.

00:09:55.000 There's hardly humans in humanity. 1.00

00:09:58.000 Fuck yeah, dude. 1.00

00:10:00.000 That's a great song. 1.00

00:10:01.000 That's a great song.

00:10:03.000 And it's interesting to me how few people are doing what you're doing.

00:10:09.000 I don't know of anyone else.

00:10:10.000 I'm sure there probably is a few people out there that I miss, but I don't know of anybody else who takes things that are in the zeitgeist these big stories that come up yeah and turns them into a catchy tune and does it in a way where you're you laid out you know really the problem and the whole thing like you said in punchlines yeah you know there's a lot there's a lot of folks doing it right now and and more every day but there was i mean there's a precedent for

00:10:40.000 that kind of work um especially as far as like Woody Guthrie was really the I was reading I was reading a Woody Guthrie biography And my old man was in the hospital.

00:11:01.000 He had just had a heart attack, and we didn't know what way it was going to go or whatever.

00:11:06.000 Anyway, I don't know, just seeing him all hooked up to that stuff and thinking, if he died, I've hardly had any time to even know him.

00:11:20.000 He's hardly had any time.

00:11:21.000 to know anything.

00:11:23.000 We don't get very long down here.

00:11:24.000 And I'm reading this Woody Guthrie biography, and I was just like, oh, I'm going to do this.

00:11:32.000 I'm gonna sing the news.

00:11:37.000 Because that's really what Woody was kinda doing in his day.

00:11:42.000 Because there was there's folk music around him and he teamed up with Pete Seager and he's on radio programs and he could have played he had the he had the choice he could have played standards he could have played country western music and stuff like that but he liked making folks laugh and he liked telling it how it was.

00:11:59.000 I like both those things.

00:12:01.000 I saw Woody Guthrie live when I was a little kid in San Francisco.

00:12:05.000 Arlo or Woody?

00:12:07.000 I think Woody.

00:12:07.000 Which one was alive back then?

00:12:10.000 Was it Arlo?

00:12:11.000 Yeah, Woody died.

00:12:12.000 Okay, so it must have been Arlo.

00:12:13.000 So it was 19, let me guess the year.

00:12:16.000 I was 11?

00:12:18.000 Yeah.

00:12:19.000 So maybe, yeah.

00:12:21.000 10 or 11.

00:12:24.000 Yeah.

00:12:25.000 No, it was San Francisco, so it had to be, I lived there until I was 11, so it was probably around 9 or 10, now that I think about it.

00:12:33.000 But yeah, he performed live.

00:12:35.000 God, I wish I could remember more of it.

00:12:37.000 I mean, Arlo played...

00:12:39.000 Arlo played this kind of he went a little more surreal with it which is super groovy but he carried you know he carried on the torch for his old man So Woody died in what year?

00:12:50.000 67.

00:12:51.000 67.

00:12:52.000 Yeah.

00:12:53.000 He got the he got a Huntington's disease and was laid up in a home for quite a while.

00:12:58.000 He lost the ability to speak.

00:12:59.000 And then what is a Huntington's disease?

00:13:01.000 Some rare genetic disorder.

00:13:03.000 I don't really know what it does other than Yeah, look, he was pretty young.

00:13:09.000 Breakdown of nerve cells in the brain.

00:13:11.000 Yeah.

00:13:12.000 His mother also suffered from the same illness.

00:13:14.000 Yeah.

00:13:15.000 So What causes that?

00:13:19.000 You know, why do I have a feeling?

00:13:20.000 Bad luck.

00:13:21.000 Maybe not.

00:13:22.000 Why do I have a feeling there's some environmental toxin involved?

00:13:25.000 Yeah.

00:13:26.000 Yeah.

00:13:27.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:13:28.000 He was sitting next to, he was in East Palestine.

00:13:31.000 Pennsylvania?

00:13:33.000 No way.

00:13:34.000 No, no, I'm kidding.

00:13:35.000 He drove.

00:13:36.000 But I mean, well, obviously it's different time, but there's so many parts of the country that have been polluted by industrial waste. 1.00

00:13:42.000 There's so much horrible shit out there. 1.00

00:13:42.000 Right. 1.00

00:13:44.000 I mean, maybe he was riding on trains and boxcars and stuff.

00:13:47.000 There's no telling what they were hauling around and that sort of thing.

00:13:51.000 He played the political tunes.

00:14:10.000 going from town to town and singing the news.

00:14:13.000 I don't know.

00:14:14.000 Maybe there was some medieval dude going around singing about the king.

00:14:19.000 I don't know.

00:14:20.000 Maybe there was.

00:14:21.000 Just because I don't know if it's a uniquely American tradition, but when I do it, I get romantic about it and kind of think of it as a uniquely American tradition because you got the freedom to do it.

00:14:36.000 gunning me down in the field there or anything for anything I say, you know, so I get to, you know, yeah, that's why I doubt if anybody was ever doing anything the way you do it when they were doing it for about the king.

00:14:49.000 the knights go hunt him down or something Yeah, maybe a few guys tried, but I bet they killed them. 0.98

00:14:59.000 Or maybe you hired, you co-opted the bard, you turned him into your fool, your jester. 1.00

00:15:08.000 And then he sang songs for you about how fat the neighbor king was. 0.99

00:15:11.000 I think that's a different guy.

00:15:13.000 I think you're dealing with a different guy. 1.00

00:15:16.000 The guy who is the jester, the fucking vampire familiar. 0.99

00:15:21.000 You know? 0.96

00:15:22.000 Like in Blade, the guy's going to get close to the vampires because they won't eventually one day want to be a vampire who promised it who was in the Lord of the Rings who was like Theodon's dude worm tongue something anyway I don't remember I don't remember people very close but it's that's always the Dracula story there's always a familiar there's always a human that does the bidding of the vampire oh that guy yeah perfect exactly yeah 0.80

00:15:54.000 same kind of guy fucking creep with a questionable hard drive did he was he in one flew over the cuckoo's nest? 0.89

00:16:03.000 Was he? 0.99

00:16:03.000 God, that's weird. 0.99

00:16:05.000 Is that Billy Babbitt?

00:16:06.000 He would be so old.

00:16:08.000 One Floor of the Cuckoo's Nest.

00:16:08.000 Yeah.

00:16:10.000 Was it 67 or something?

00:16:11.000 That was a long time ago.

00:16:13.000 I mean, but was it?

00:16:15.000 Because that's been in everything.

00:16:17.000 That's him now?

00:16:20.000 Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

00:16:21.000 Yeah.

00:16:22.000 Isn't that crazy? 1.00

00:16:23.000 Time is such a motherfucker. 1.00

00:16:28.000 Okay. 1.00

00:16:29.000 He was in One Floor of the Cuckoo's Nest.

00:16:31.000 Far out.

00:16:31.000 Oh, wow.

00:16:33.000 75.

00:16:33.000 Yeah.

00:16:35.000 That's a great fucking movie too. 0.99

00:16:37.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:16:37.000 That's an eye-opening movie about healthcare. 0.99

00:16:41.000 Well, I'd say, yeah, in an era of sanatoriums, you know, and stuff where you.

00:16:47.000 Right, and then people glorify that as like, we need more mental health institutions.

00:16:51.000 That's why there's so many homeless people on the street.

00:16:53.000 I'm like, have you ever been?

00:16:58.000 We definitely need more mental health.

00:17:00.000 We win one hundred percent those people need care, but do they need the kind of care that they were getting before they were released on the street when they were giving people electroshock therapy and cooking in their brains?

00:17:09.000 Those at least whatever's going on in one floor of the cooking business is essentially a prison.

00:17:15.000 Yeah.

00:17:15.000 Well, there's a home with electroshock therapy.

00:17:18.000 Oh yeah.

00:17:19.000 Yeah.

00:17:20.000 And lobotomies.

00:17:21.000 Until like 67, they were just cooking people's brains with a wand, getting in there and scrambling up your brain.

00:17:30.000 Dude, they did lobotomies for decades. 0.98

00:17:32.000 Yeah. 0.98

00:17:33.000 Decades until enough people had their loved ones turned into zombies that they were like, hey, maybe we should probably fucking stop that. 0.96

00:17:42.000 Didn't they lobotomize Kennedy? 0.99

00:17:46.000 Apparently, She was just wild. 1.00

00:17:49.000 Yeah.

00:17:49.000 That's all it was.

00:17:50.000 Well, first of all, I would have lobotomized.

00:17:55.000 Yeah, I mean, first of all, the men were wild.

00:17:55.000 Yeah, probably.

00:17:58.000 She was wild sexually. 0.77

00:18:00.000 Is that part of the accusation that she was very promiscuous? 0.73

00:18:04.000 They had a problem with her and they wanted her to calm down. 0.99

00:18:07.000 So they fucking scrambled her brains and apparently she became non functional. 0.98

00:18:11.000 Like they really kind of, you know, they dialed it up to ten. 0.99

00:18:15.000 Yeah.

00:18:16.000 And that was it for her.

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00:19:39.000 When Kenny was 23, doctors told her father that lobotomy would help calm her mood swings and stop her occasional violent outbursts.

00:19:45.000 23.

00:19:48.000 So Joe Sr. decided, 23, decided Rosemary should have lobotomy. 1.00

00:19:52.000 However, he did not inform his wife, oh my God, until.

00:19:55.000 after the procedure was completed.

00:19:56.000 The procedure took place November 1941, Sins of the Father in the book, 1996 biography.

00:20:05.000 James W. Watts, who carried out the procedure with Walter Freeman, both of George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Science, has described to Kessler as follows.

00:20:13.000 After Rosemary was mildly sedated, we went through the top of her head, doctor Watts recalled.

00:20:19.000 I think she was awake.

00:20:20.000 She had a mild tranquilizer.

00:20:22.000 I made a surgical incision in the brain through the skull.

00:20:25.000 It was near the front.

00:20:26.000 It was on both sides.

00:20:27.000 We just made a small incision, no more than an inch.

00:20:30.000 The instruments doctor Watts used looked like a butter knife.

00:20:33.000 He swung it up and down to cut brain tissue.

00:20:37.000 We put an instrument inside, he said, as doctor Watts cut.

00:20:40.000 Dr. Freeman asked Rosemary some questions.

00:20:42.000 For example, he asked her to recite the Lord's Prayer or sing God bless America or to count backward. 0.53

00:20:47.000 We made an estimate on how far to cut based on how she responded.

00:20:53.000 When Rosemary became began to become incoherent, they stopped.

00:20:57.000 What a tragedy.

00:21:00.000 Holy cow. 0.89

00:21:04.000 Yeah.

00:21:05.000 Scroll back up.

00:21:07.000 Scroll back up so I can hear it.

00:21:09.000 How many folks were getting these?

00:21:10.000 The nuns of the Covenant thought that Rosemary might become involved with sexual partners and that she could contract a sexually transmitted disease or become pregnant. 1.00

00:21:20.000 Her occasionally erratic behavior frustrated her parents.

00:21:24.000 So she got expelled from summer camp and she was staying, it says, and staying only for a few months at a Philadelphia boarding school.

00:21:33.000 Kennedy was sent to a convent school in Washington, DC.

00:21:37.000 Kennedy began sneaking out of the convent school at night.

00:21:40.000 The nuns in the convent thought that she might be involved with sexual partners and that she might get an STD or become pregnant. 1.00

00:21:47.000 And so then they decided to go give her a fucking lobotomy. 1.00

00:21:51.000 Imagine that. 1.00

00:21:52.000 You send a young, healthy girl to a convent with a bunch of fucking creepy nuns and she just like breaks out in the middle of the night, like go hang out with her friends or go meet up with a guy or fucking something. 0.99

00:22:04.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:22:04.000 And so they go, Well, the solution to this is cut her brain. 1.00

00:22:07.000 Yeah. 0.51

00:22:08.000 And have her talk until she can't talk anymore and then we know when to stop cutting. 1.00

00:22:12.000 Yeah, that's insane.

00:22:14.000 Meanwhile, Kennedy's got his.

00:22:15.000 That wasn't even a hospital running his excavations.

00:22:18.000 Oh yeah, they all were.

00:22:19.000 The father was.

00:22:19.000 Like there's I don't know whether it's true or not true because we used to say it and then there's been things disputing it, but of course.

00:22:26.000 Of course, who knows how much money is involved in this in the first place, but supposedly Kennedy Sr. was involved in illegal liquor during the time where there was prohibition in this country.

00:22:39.000 I thought he was a mobster.

00:22:41.000 He definitely knew some people, which was what helped his son win Illinois.

00:22:46.000 Yeah.

00:22:46.000 Right.

00:22:47.000 It's just like, I don't know what's true and what's not true in terms of him being a moonshine runner, but it tracks.

00:22:54.000 You know, and the whole family.

00:22:56.000 It seems like an incredibly lucrative business to get into during prohibition.

00:23:00.000 I don't know who wouldn't be hunting liquor.

00:23:03.000 Especially when you can control the police, you know, especially when you had money and you were involved and you had your foot dipped in all sorts of organized crime and you know then you had souped up nascar cars that they were using to drive their sort of nascar cars yeah i guess that's the roots of yeah so if it's starting from the copy yeah if it weren't for joe we wouldn't have had wouldn't have dale right wouldn't have had the the loop yeah it's um it's just a crazy practice that they

00:23:33.000 did for a long long time just to get rid of people that were a problem.

00:23:38.000 So what's the modern lobotomy?

00:23:40.000 What are we doing right now that we're going to read on wiki or, you know, whatever.

00:23:47.000 There's probably a few.

00:23:48.000 There's probably quite a few.

00:23:48.000 15.

00:23:50.000 Holy cow. 0.89

00:23:51.000 I'm sure.

00:23:52.000 We're taking children.

00:23:52.000 We're translational.

00:23:54.000 I'm sure that's going to be on that list.

00:23:55.000 Or taking, I don't know, like prescribing benzos and stuff.

00:24:02.000 Oh, that's going to be on that list for sure.

00:24:04.000 You know, benzos are just like a chemical lobotomy.

00:24:08.000 Well, benzo doesn't give you a chemical lobotomy, but it does make you 100% hooked on it.

00:24:12.000 Well, it's just the different the stress you would undergo getting out of the addiction, you might never you might never come come back fully or get your life all the way back after an addiction like that.

00:24:12.000 Yeah.

00:24:27.000 Well, I know several people that have had that problem, and it is a real struggle.

00:24:32.000 Like Jordan Peterson has publicly talked about it.

00:24:32.000 Right.

00:24:35.000 It took him over a year to recover physically just from being addicted.

00:24:39.000 And that's actually going to rehabs and stuff like that.

00:24:42.000 There's a lot of folks, most folks, they don't go They don't have the money.

00:24:46.000 Nowhere.

00:24:47.000 Right.

00:24:47.000 You know, they get off it and then drink themselves to death or do cocaine.

00:24:50.000 Or do something else.

00:24:51.000 Yeah, find something else. 0.99

00:24:53.000 Or, you know, or the psychiatrist puts you on some new kind of pills to satisfy whatever the fuck was wrong with you in the first place. 0.97

00:24:59.000 Yeah, you can get off one and hop over to the other. 0.98

00:25:02.000 Uh huh?

00:25:03.000 Go back and forth.

00:25:03.000 Yeah.

00:25:04.000 It's a real problem.

00:25:05.000 And when someone gets on that ride, it's hard to get off.

00:25:08.000 It's hard to get off to take this pill to fix it ride.

00:25:11.000 Yeah.

00:25:12.000 That ride is a very popular ride.

00:25:14.000 I I mean, folks like having a having a doctor tell them, it's all right, you know?

00:25:14.000 Yeah.

00:25:24.000 I guess it's like a It's like if they get it, they're an authority figure told them, it's all good to take this pill, you know?

00:25:34.000 Or whatever.

00:25:35.000 Not only that, especially with benzos, especially in the early days, nobody even told them that it was almost impossible to get off of.

00:25:44.000 I mean, couldn't a patient kind of figure that out pretty quick?

00:25:48.000 Well, they don't because they keep taking it, right?

00:25:50.000 You keep taking it because you're addicted to it.

00:25:52.000 If you forget, forget a dose, you start feeling those withdrawals come in, you know, or Well, apparently with, find this out if this is true.

00:26:03.000 Apparently one of the things about benzodiazepine is that it alleviates anxiety, but if you stop taking it, your anxiety maybe even elevates past where it was before you first took it.

00:26:16.000 Oh yeah.

00:26:17.000 So there's like a slingshot effect..

00:26:19.000 When you get off of anything, all sorts of stuff rattles loose in your head, man.

00:26:24.000 For sure.

00:26:25.000 And everything gets, everything gets worse for a period of time.

00:26:29.000 But what I was going to get at is it's one of the few where you could die if you get off of it.

00:26:34.000 Right.

00:26:34.000 It's like that and alcohol.

00:26:36.000 Those are like the two things, right?

00:26:37.000 So here it is.

00:26:38.000 During early withdrawal, an individual may experience a return of anxiety and insomnia symptoms as the brain rebounds without the drugs.

00:26:46.000 But does it say a rebound?

00:26:49.000 How long does it last?

00:26:50.000 Many people stop taking these medications experience increased anxiety or restlessness referred to as rebound anxiety, rebound effects from benzo withdrawal, such as anxiety or insomnia typically last two to three days.

00:27:03.000 I don't think that's true.

00:27:05.000 I don't think that's true.

00:27:07.000 I mean, the insomnia itself is enough to cause all sorts of different.

00:27:12.000 Oh yeah.

00:27:14.000 How long does benzo what is benzo belly?

00:27:16.000 What is that?

00:27:17.000 Benzo belly can depend, is it like a diarrhea?

00:27:21.000 Such as the type of dose of benzo, the what does it mean?

00:27:24.000 Some people experience What does it say?

00:27:28.000 They should What does it say it is?

00:27:30.000 Benzo belly, I'd like to know.

00:27:32.000 Put that on.

00:27:32.000 Common side of, oh, cramps?

00:27:34.000 Yeah, gastrointestinal symptoms.

00:27:35.000 Oh, well, you're adding that to. 1.00

00:27:37.000 Fucking poisoning your insides. 1.00

00:27:38.000 There's a Pepto list. 1.00

00:27:39.000 Your body's like, what are you doing?

00:27:41.000 Oh, look at it.

00:27:41.000 You could get nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pain, bloating, digestion.

00:27:45.000 You know how they do that at the end of the commercial?

00:27:46.000 Yeah.

00:27:47.000 Indigestion, loss of appetite, constipation, weight loss, bloody diarrhea. 0.71

00:27:51.000 You might want to die.

00:27:52.000 That's the craziest ones when the side effects of antidepressants are suicide. 0.89

00:27:58.000 Yeah.

00:28:00.000 There ain't no you in United.

00:28:03.000 They make...

00:28:08.000 Yeah.

00:28:09.000 Keep the money rolling in.

00:28:11.000 Yeah, as long as they keep mushrooms illegal.

00:28:14.000 There's a lot of things that could be fixed in a very natural way that people have been doing for thousands of years that you can't do.

00:28:21.000 At least in Texas, they opened up ibogaine again.

00:28:24.000 So that's new.

00:28:25.000 where they're going to do these, they've done them so far, these trials with soldiers, and it's super effective, especially for getting off drugs.

00:28:34.000 Like really, really, really effective.

00:28:36.000 Like 80% for one dose in the 90s for two dose.

00:28:40.000 People just quit pills, quit everything, quit drinking.

00:28:44.000 It's amazing. 1.00

00:28:45.000 Whatever's fucking with you. 0.98

00:28:47.000 There's natural tools out there to figure out. 0.99

00:28:50.000 People get in patterns, right?

00:28:52.000 They get in these terrible behavior patterns, and they don't know why.

00:28:55.000 They don't know how to get out of them.

00:28:56.000 They keep falling into them because they're tightly grooved into the way you think.

00:29:01.000 Unless you can leave for a moment the connection that you have to this existence where you're completely, continually trapped by your patterns, unless you can leave and look at those patterns, you're just fighting against so much gravity and so much momentum.

00:29:19.000 And then whatever your – the life that you've chosen, you're around the same people.

00:29:25.000 There's so many things that make it very difficult to really change your life outside of escaping briefly and getting a look at it from some – So does Ibogaine like smooth out all the ruts?

00:29:41.000 Ibogaine, I've never done it, so I can't really speak to this, but from the people that have done it, what they explain that it does, first of all, it actually stops physical addiction somehow.

00:29:52.000 don't totally understand how it's doing this but it stops physical physical addiction and sort of rewires the way your brain and for lack of a better term looks at addiction it also is it's not a drug that you could abuse recreationally apparently it's not a fun time and it's a 244 hour experience.

00:30:12.000 And this 24 hour experience Is it psychedelic?

00:30:15.000 Yes. 0.60

00:30:16.000 And this 24 hour experience is essentially a review of your life and showing you, like, you remember this happened, these guys beat you up after school, and then that sent you down this road, and then this is why you think about this and this, and it lays out why you're in all these different fucked up patterns in your life.

00:30:35.000 Do you have a like a spirit guide?

00:30:37.000 I don't know.

00:30:38.000 Do you have a game counsel?

00:30:39.000 I don't know.

00:30:40.000 I think I have a game counsel.

00:30:41.000 You mean while you're doing it?

00:30:42.000 Yeah.

00:30:43.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:30:44.000 They have centers.

00:30:46.000 What is the place called in Mexico that.

00:30:48.000 that former Republican governor Rick Perry is an advocate of this.

00:30:53.000 And he went to that, is it beyond B E O N D?

00:30:53.000 Right.

00:30:58.000 They have to, for the longest time, they've been doing these things down in Mexico because it's legal there.

00:31:04.000 Right.

00:31:04.000 Does Idaho, Alaska do something similar?

00:31:07.000 Yes.

00:31:07.000 That's a lot of people go down to Costa Rica and do that.

00:31:10.000 Or there's certain churches that have a religious exemption in America.

00:31:14.000 Right.

00:31:15.000 Which is wow.

00:31:16.000 What, what?

00:31:17.000 Go to church and really meet Jesus.

00:31:19.000 Yeah.

00:31:20.000 Like for real, for real.

00:31:21.000 Like Utah, wow.

00:31:24.000 Yeah.

00:31:24.000 Like New Mexico, places like that.

00:31:26.000 Yeah.

00:31:26.000 It's like, you know, somewhere where we're like, Well, how many followers do you have?

00:31:29.000 You got 1400?

00:31:30.000 Okay, well, don't get too big.

00:31:31.000 I've been to a church in a couple of basements.

00:31:33.000 Like, really?

00:31:36.000 Well, you know, the weird thing is if anyone wants to start a new church now, like, good luck. 1.00

00:31:41.000 They'll crawl up your fucking ass with a microscope. 1.00

00:31:43.000 Like, if you want to start a new church now, it better be a Christian church. 1.00

00:31:46.000 Like, you better be following the same religions that the people have been following for thousands and thousands of years.

00:31:51.000 Because if you try to cook up a new religion today, they will waco you, son. 1.00

00:31:55.000 They will fuck it. 1.00

00:31:56.000 Well, yeah. 1.00

00:31:58.000 Yeah.

00:31:59.000 I mean, you get a good following.

00:32:03.000 Religions? 0.97

00:32:03.000 They get weirder and weirder. 0.97

00:32:05.000 I don't like in America, they get weirder and weirder and weirder kind of the more west we went the more we manifest destiny out because like you have like puritan pilgrims land and you know in new england and the weirdest of them move a little bit more west or they just go to the quakers just go to like nantucket you know to be on an island and be isolated but you know eventually in about a hundred years you've got mormons 1.00

00:32:37.000 Yep.

00:32:37.000 You know?

00:32:38.000 And then give it another hundred something.

00:32:41.000 Then you got Scientology out in California.

00:32:44.000 Yep.

00:32:44.000 Right?

00:32:46.000 Have you seen American Primeval?

00:32:48.000 The Netflix series?

00:32:49.000 No.

00:32:50.000 Really good.

00:32:51.000 Really good.

00:32:52.000 And it's about, you know, the settling of the West, but a big part of it is the Mormons. 0.84

00:32:57.000 Right. 1.00

00:32:57.000 How fucking gangster the Mormons. 1.00

00:32:59.000 We think of Mormons as being, like, really sweet people. 1.00

00:33:01.000 Like, uh-uh.

00:33:02.000 No.

00:33:03.000 Not back then.

00:33:04.000 No, no, no, no.

00:33:06.000 Nothing was in the West, man.

00:33:07.000 Yeah.

00:33:08.000 It was, it was death and car.

00:33:10.000 Like, I don't know.

00:33:12.000 I imagine it like Blood Meridian, like McCarthy's book, where basically, you know, like follows the story of like this kid who goes on a scalping mission, you know, where their job is to.

00:33:25.000 go down into Guadalajara and then come up in through the States and they just they scalp pretty much everyone they meet indiscriminately and then take those scalps back for dough.

00:33:34.000 It's like, you know, for a bounty.

00:33:36.000 Which is crazy.

00:33:37.000 How much is the scalp worth?

00:33:39.000 I don't, I don't know.

00:33:40.000 Imagine that. 0.99

00:33:41.000 You just find some dude who's like, fucking taking care of a lawn or something like that. 0.99

00:33:47.000 I take that over cobotomy. 0.99

00:33:52.000 Some people live.

00:33:53.000 Row back. 0.94

00:33:53.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.94

00:33:54.000 Those people that lived.

00:33:54.000 Yeah, it seems really crazy.

00:33:56.000 I've seen that picture of someone had a top hat on over this giant wound.

00:34:02.000 Wound over the top.

00:34:02.000 of his head, which I wonder how long he lived because he basically had like an open skull facing the earth.

00:34:10.000 I guess you play dead. 1.00

00:34:11.000 Well, that's kind of dumb. 1.00

00:34:13.000 Maybe they just let him live. 0.99

00:34:14.000 I don't know, man.

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00:35:36.000 ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. 0.96

00:35:40.000 Chihuahua's bounty program offered fortune seekers 150 to 200 Mexican pesos for each Apache, depending on age and sex. 0.55

00:35:48.000 Men were 50 pesos more than women and children. 0.72

00:35:52.000 And children.

00:35:54.000 Yeah.

00:35:54.000 Today, that equates to about 8,0000 per scalp.

00:35:58.000 Yeah.

00:35:58.000 So that's far more than most prospectors would ever make in the California goldfields.

00:36:03.000 $8,000 per scalp.

00:36:06.000 That's crazy.

00:36:07.000 Yeah.

00:36:08.000 How many people, just innocent people, that just happen to have dark hair got scalped?

00:36:15.000 Oh, they would, like in McCarthy's book at least, which follows the Glanton gang, I'm pretty sure at times they kill some of their own gang.

00:36:24.000 I'm sure.

00:36:25.000 Just because they were dark-haired.

00:36:28.000 The most prolific of these operatives was an Irish-American named James Kirker, who led a massacre of more than 150 Apaches in 1846 and ultimately killed at least 320 Indians.

00:36:39.000 during his bounty hunting campaigns.

00:36:44.000 Scalp trade.

00:36:45.000 $8,200 for scalps.

00:36:49.000 You imagine like if you have a lawless country, which is essentially what the Wild West was.

00:36:56.000 And then you offer up $8,000 every time you kill a person.

00:37:01.000 Yeah. 0.96

00:37:02.000 Ooh, you can get rid of people quick.

00:37:04.000 And you're gonna have... 0.94

00:37:10.000 The craziest of the craziest.

00:37:11.000 And that's essentially... 0.98

00:37:13.000 calls him out.

00:37:14.000 The...

00:37:15.000 Oof.

00:37:16.000 And...

00:37:19.000 That wasn't that long ago.

00:37:21.000 That's what's so crazy.

00:37:23.000 You know, we're talking about 150 years.

00:37:26.000 Like, what is it?

00:37:27.000 How long ago was it?

00:37:29.000 Not that long ago.

00:37:32.000 In California, scalp warfare eliminated nearly 90% of some tribal populations. 1.00

00:37:38.000 Holy fuck. 0.99

00:37:40.000 Were they doing that into the 1890s? 1.00

00:37:45.000 That's crazy.

00:37:46.000 Yeah.

00:37:47.000 That's pretty wild.

00:37:56.000 That's hard to believe.

00:37:59.000 You direct government support for bounty payouts?

00:38:02.000 Whoa.

00:38:03.000 Direct government support for bounty payouts with blunt calls for the extermination of tribes and mass murder of men, women, and children provides an important new perspective on the question of genocide across the long arc of Euro American interaction with native communities.

00:38:20.000 The Apache scalp that FBI agents seized in twenty twenty two is one of thousands, perhaps tens of thousands that were taken, redeemed, displayed, and in rare cases like this one preserved as a part of a long and gruesome history of scalp war warfare.

00:38:36.000 So it was in an auction house?

00:38:38.000 That's how they found it?

00:38:44.000 FBI investigating Apache scalp seized from Fairfield Auction House.

00:38:50.000 The item was seized from the Pauline Art Antiques and Auction House as part of an investigation into the illegal trafficking of human remains.

00:39:01.000 Whoa.

00:39:03.000 And like when?

00:39:04.000 Imagine someone kept that.

00:39:06.000 When does the karma come in on this bloodshed?

00:39:10.000 that founded that you know that founded well i'm certain it did for the individuals involved i just i wonder if it's generational if these things if the if the universe will continue to sort itself out over this over this time i think this is a very unique time for understanding people you know we i think We have to,

00:39:39.000 you know, when people look at all the conflict and all the drama with human beings right now, you have to realize, like, yes., we could certainly live better lives and we certainly have a better civilization than we have right now.

00:39:55.000 We can do better.

00:39:56.000 But we also have to realize what we're coming from. 0.99

00:39:59.000 Like to make an adjustment from 1890 to 2025, I mean, this is a big swing of this fucking battleship. 0.98

00:40:07.000 Unrealizable. 0.99

00:40:09.000 People were horrible.

00:40:11.000 all throughout human history.

00:40:12.000 I think that's what we really have to come to grips with.

00:40:15.000 It's not just, I mean, we can go back to the Mongol invasions in the 19, what was it, what is it year?

00:40:21.000 The year 1200?

00:40:23.000 How long ago was that?

00:40:24.000 What year was that?

00:40:26.000 With the Mongols. 0.98

00:40:28.000 I think it was in the 1200s.

00:40:31.000 You know, I mean the Inquisition.

00:40:33.000 We can go to World War I, World War II. 0.99

00:40:36.000 People were fucking horrible forever. 0.93

00:40:40.000 And it's just more people are talking about it now than ever before. 0.99

00:40:45.000 you had universities in America which were the antiwar movement started in the 1960s and the hippies and they were starting to get acid and realize like there's more to life. 0.99

00:40:55.000 Like this is bullshit. 1.00

00:40:56.000 The way our parents are living is bullshit. 1.00

00:40:58.000 They're miserable and they're going to die. 1.00

00:40:59.000 And it takes a long time to turn this big ass battleship around. 1.00

00:41:05.000 But I think we have to give ourselves some understanding about the past and realize like part of the reason why we're so fucked up today is like look what we come from. 0.99

00:41:14.000 Right. 0.97

00:41:15.000 Yeah, look what we come from.

00:41:16.000 I know we can do better.

00:41:17.000 We definitely can do better.

00:41:18.000 We should do better.

00:41:19.000 We should have a way better life, way better society.

00:41:22.000 But look where we come from.

00:41:24.000 Right.

00:41:25.000 We come from madness.

00:41:26.000 Yeah.

00:41:27.000 Absolute chaos.

00:41:29.000 Chaos and bloodshed, my friend. 0.99

00:41:30.000 It's just the ability that a person has to sign off, a person in the government say, yeah, okay, give them some money so they go kill some Indians indiscriminately. 0.71

00:41:42.000 give them $8,000 per scalp and a little less for the women and children.

00:41:52.000 130 years ago, 140 years ago, 150 years ago.

00:41:55.000 That's nothing, man.

00:41:57.000 That's nothing.

00:41:58.000 That's your great grandpa.

00:41:59.000 He was alive back then.

00:42:02.000 Hard to believe.

00:42:04.000 It's far out.

00:42:06.000 It really is, man.

00:42:08.000 I wonder if things are, you know, probably seem a lot cleaner.

00:42:14.000 as far as chaos and bloodshed now in the continental U.S. and the Union and stuff, but who is sending folks to go do that abroad to protect the homeland, you know, under the auspices of protecting the homeland.

00:42:38.000 Who's doing the exact same thing as they were doing then, just in a different way.

00:42:43.000 Because I really think we stay as much as has changed and we can measure that.

00:42:50.000 We can totally can.

00:42:53.000 I think also we stay the same, you know.

00:42:57.000 Well, until we're forced to change.

00:43:00.000 Until something, or until we recognize the need to change collectively.

00:43:04.000 But there has to be a discussion of it.

00:43:06.000 It's not something that just organically happens.

00:43:12.000 I think of like, do you ever see, this is Hollywood, but Apocalypse Now?

00:43:20.000 Sure.

00:43:21.000 There's Francis Ford Coppola.

00:43:23.000 Mm-hmm.

00:43:24.000 He's got, like, Martin Sheen and Marlon Brando and...

00:43:36.000 But it's written on this premise of a book that was written in like 1899 by Joseph Conrad like Heart of Darkness.

00:43:48.000 Oh wow, it's that old.

00:43:49.000 And Heart of Darkness was talking about a conquest of, I believe the Dutch, I'm not sure, into the Congo.

00:44:03.000 And some atrocities and stuff that were happening there, treating people as subhuman.

00:44:10.000 And I don't know if there was scalping or anything, but I think that there was slavery and that sort of thing.

00:44:16.000 But Coppola was able to adapt that and then put the Vietnam War as the new premise.

00:44:25.000 Going into, I think they, I think Sheen's mission in the movie at least was to go up river into Cambodia or Laos, I'm not sure which, and take out a rogue,

00:44:55.000 All that to say, I wonder if in Vietnam, if the folks fighting out there felt like in that moment where you're killing somebody, if you realize at that point that nothing has ever changed and that this is something primeval in man with this violence,

00:45:25.000 that this violence is innate.

00:45:28.000 Or, you know, is this violence innate?

00:45:32.000 Is this how folks are and there's no helping it and there's nothing that's ever going to change it?

00:45:37.000 Because you can get kind of cynical that way. 0.89

00:45:39.000 Or, and I kind of tend on this more idealistic and at times it seems naive or stupid, to have an ideal that folks could live in harmony, in peace, without taking one another's lives. 0.96

00:45:59.000 You know, the problem is they've never done it before. 0.98

00:46:03.000 That's mind boggling.

00:46:06.000 Mind boggling.

00:46:07.000 it is in all I think it's in a lot of us deep down to I don't well it has to be because it's not the only way we survived.

00:46:18.000 That's the only way we got to where we are today.

00:46:20.000 Because we existed before language, we existed before empathy, before we understood each other, before we could communicate.

00:46:27.000 So any being that you didn't know from somewhere else wanted what you had, and they would try to take it by force.

00:46:33.000 So the bigger, stronger ones survived, and that's why the best genetics kept going and going and going.

00:46:39.000 I mean, it was survival of the fittest.

00:46:41.000 It exists in nature and exists with humans, and that's the basis of our DNA, unfortunately.

00:46:46.000 Like, that's how we started, right? 0.98

00:46:48.000 And so that the way it manifests itself today is fucking drone warfare. 0.99

00:46:53.000 Right. 0.99

00:46:53.000 bombs and you know dropping bunker busters out of b2s you know that's what it is or b12 is that what it is the b12 what's the big one b2 feels like it should be a bigger number because it looks like a spaceship you see how they flew it over putin like look at my dick my flying dick you see trump did that when putin was in alaska they flew a bomber over his head like what are 0.99

00:47:23.000 we doing? 0.96

00:47:24.000 Why are we flying the the radar resistant bomber over Putin's head it sounds like a show of force.

00:47:33.000 Look at my dude.

00:47:35.000 This is what these games, but like, is it, yeah, I just, I wonder, is it within humans to exist in peace?

00:47:51.000 Well, we certainly can in small groups, right?

00:47:55.000 Like if you, me, and Jamie, I've said this before about other guests, if we were on an island all together, we wouldn't lock each other up.

00:48:04.000 We wouldn't, we'd just, we'd just figure it out.

00:48:06.000 Like, yeah, okay, I'm going to go fishing today.

00:48:08.000 We need firewood.

00:48:10.000 You want to get the firewood?

00:48:11.000 I'm going to go for a long jog.

00:48:12.000 Okay.

00:48:13.000 Get that jog in.

00:48:14.000 Get your cardio in.

00:48:15.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:48:17.000 Like we wouldn't, there was, there's only a limited amount.

00:48:27.000 Most war today is about controlling parts of the world where there's an infinite amount of money in the ground.

00:48:34.000 Whether it's oil or now it's rare earth minerals and stuff they need for batteries.

00:48:39.000 And that's what a lot of it is.

00:48:41.000 I mean, that's what a lot of the conflict is in this world.

00:48:44.000 And that's gross.

00:48:46.000 It's scary.

00:48:47.000 It's scary.

00:48:48.000 But if you ask the average person, like, what are the odds that there will be no more war in your lifetime?

00:48:55.000 And they'll say zero percent.

00:48:56.000 Yeah.

00:48:57.000 Everyone will say zero percent.

00:48:59.000 It's so far out.

00:48:59.000 It's just, like, I think, you know, the folks that go to war, like, if you, if you signed up and went to, and went to Iraq and, you know, and, like, oh, oh, oh, three.

00:49:15.000 oh, six or so, you know, and you're securing or maybe not Iraq, but you're going to Afghanistan and you're securing opium fields and stuff and you're out there you're risking your life you got the gun on you are prepared to take somebody's life but for but for what and like we need help We'll fight.

00:49:44.000 We'll fight.

00:49:45.000 We'll fight.

00:49:47.000 It seems like for the sake of just for the sake of the hunt or something.

00:49:53.000 If you asked the soldiers when they were signing up, hey, do you want to go to Afghanistan and guard Poppyfields? 0.97

00:49:57.000 They'd been like, what?

00:49:58.000 No.

00:49:59.000 I want to fight terrorism.

00:50:00.000 Right.

00:50:01.000 Or I want to stop the people that did 911 from doing it again.

00:50:04.000 That's why a lot of people signed up.

00:50:06.000 But then the reality kicks in once you're standing around poppy fields with a machine gun.

00:50:11.000 And you're like, oh.

00:50:13.000 Yeah.

00:50:14.000 Oh, this is a scam.

00:50:15.000 And, you know, I don't know how much internet access they had while they were over there.

00:50:19.000 But if they did and they ever Googled what percentage of all heroin comes from Afghanistan, the answer they would have got is 94%.

00:50:25.000 Yeah.

00:50:26.000 And they would have been like, wait, what is this?

00:50:28.000 So then it takes a larger, it takes essentially a psyop in order to get men to.

00:50:38.000 to fight for the interests of the people who are performing the psyop.

00:50:43.000 Yes, you have to create a psyop that puts a narrative out there that makes it noble for us to be doing what we're doing.

00:50:50.000 Noble. 0.99

00:50:51.000 Because we're such suckers. 0.89

00:50:52.000 It's a noble cause. 0.92

00:50:54.000 What's more noble than letting somebody live? 0.92

00:50:56.000 Yeah, we're less suckers now than ever before, but yes, a lot of us are suckers for these narratives. 0.98

00:51:02.000 Well, I'm I'm I'm a sucker for it. 0.98

00:51:05.000 Oh, I am too.

00:51:07.000 Everyone is.

00:51:07.000 Did you ever read that War is a racket?

00:51:12.000 Smedley Butler.

00:51:12.000 Did you ever read it?

00:51:13.000 No.

00:51:14.000 It's really good.

00:51:15.000 It's not long.

00:51:16.000 It's really good.

00:51:17.000 And it is essentially outlining what we're talking about.

00:51:21.000 But it was in 1933.

00:51:23.000 And then Smedley Butler, who when he went to all these places and did all these wars, he thought that he was doing good.

00:51:23.000 Right.

00:51:31.000 He thought he was protecting people, he was.

00:51:33.000 But then at the end of his career, when it all, like the fog of war had kind of faded, and he recognized the patterns, like, oh, each time.

00:51:41.000 Pull it up, Jamie, just so we can get a look at it.

00:51:43.000 Was Smedley the one where there was a coup and they had asked him to They asked him to take.

00:51:46.000 They asked him to take. 0.99

00:51:47.000 They asked him to throw the fucking government. 0.98

00:51:49.000 There was a documentary I used to watch by Francis O'Connelly, I think is his name, but it's called Everything's a Rich Man's Trick, and he would always talk about Smedley D. Butler. 0.99

00:52:01.000 Yeah, he was a bad man.

00:52:03.000 in a good way.

00:52:05.000 But this thing that he wrote, so you can get just a, if you go to the Wikipedia site, war is a racket.

00:52:14.000 It says, I mean, it's before even World War II.

00:52:17.000 There, it is right there.

00:52:18.000 It contains this summary.

00:52:20.000 Make that a little larger, please.

00:52:22.000 Who makes the profits?

00:52:23.000 It says war is a racket.

00:52:24.000 It always has been.

00:52:25.000 It's possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious.

00:52:30.000 It's the only one international in scope.

00:52:32.000 It is the only one in which profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

00:52:37.000 A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to be to the majority of people.

00:52:44.000 Only a small inside group knows what it's all about.

00:52:48.000 It's conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the very many.

00:52:54.000 Out of war, a few people make huge fortunes.

00:52:57.000 Butler confessed that during his decades of service in the United States Marine Corps, I helped Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914.

00:53:06.000 I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in.

00:53:13.000 I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. 0.64

00:53:18.000 The record of racketeering is long.

00:53:21.000 I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1909 to 1912, where I've learned where I've heard of that name before, I don't know.

00:53:33.000 I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916.

00:53:40.000 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

00:53:45.000 Looking back on it, I have given Al Capone, I might have given Al Capone a few hints.

00:53:52.000 Kind of crazy.

00:53:53.000 Yeah.

00:53:55.000 Because they've been doing that forever.

00:53:58.000 And if it wasn't for this one guy writing about it, this one very decorated man who pull up the thing about the coup where they tried to enlist him, which is part of the reason why I'm sure he wrote this. 0.99

00:54:12.000 It's like he was like, what the fuck is this? 0.97

00:54:15.000 Like, You guys want to take over the United States government with force? 0.99

00:54:19.000 Now imagine if they were successful.

00:54:21.000 Imagine a military coup.

00:54:23.000 really did work in like 1930 or whatever it was. 0.99

00:54:26.000 How fucked we would be now. 0.97

00:54:28.000 I don't know. 0.99

00:54:30.000 It's interesting how history pivots oftentimes on like one or two crucial figures.

00:54:37.000 Right.

00:54:38.000 And this guy saying no to this, who knows what would have happened if he said yes?

00:54:45.000 Is that the premise of Man in the High Castle, Philip K. Dick?

00:54:49.000 Is it?

00:54:50.000 I don't know.

00:54:52.000 I should read more, Joe.

00:54:55.000 The business plot, is that what we're talking about?

00:54:58.000 Not the coup?

00:54:59.000 The coup.

00:55:00.000 We're talking about the coup.

00:55:01.000 Nothing in his Wikipedia says coup, but business plot comes up at the end.

00:55:04.000 What is the business plot?

00:55:06.000 That's what I think he was talking about.

00:55:08.000 Wow, this is all like the military-industrial complex stuff before it started.

00:55:12.000 Right, but wasn't there a thing where they tried to enlist him to do something?

00:55:16.000 I think, I mean, this was after he was retired.

00:55:16.000 thing.

00:55:16.000 I think.

00:55:18.000 He's gone on anti-war lectures.

00:55:21.000 It might have been.

00:55:22.000 His whole career here, and Ku wasn't like a highlighted paragraph.

00:55:26.000 Is that just in Wikipedia, though?

00:55:28.000 Can you just see if there's anything about it online?

00:55:32.000 Because it might not be something that Wikipedia would put in.

00:55:36.000 He had a whole bunch of nicknames.

00:55:37.000 Did he?

00:55:38.000 Did he see that whole list of nicknames?

00:55:40.000 You kill a lot of folks, you get a lot of nicknames.

00:55:42.000 Gee whiz. 0.91

00:55:46.000 It's so weird to see when you think about going, what's that, Jen?

00:55:50.000 And then business plot pops up.

00:55:51.000 People used to have fun nicknames.

00:55:53.000 Business plot, business plot.

00:55:54.000 So is a business plot..

00:55:55.000 So it was not necessarily like a military coup.

00:55:58.000 Like what was the actual plot?

00:55:59.000 The Wall Street put.

00:56:02.000 Political conspiracy in 1933, the United States to overthrow, oh, this it is.

00:56:06.000 Overthrow the government of the president, Franklin D. Roosevelt, and install Smedley Butler as dictator.

00:56:13.000 Butler, retired Marine Corps major general, testified under oath that wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist veterans organization with him as its leader and use it as a coup d'etat to overthrow Roosevelt.

00:56:25.000 In 1934, Butler testified under oath before the United States House of Representatives Special Committee on Un-American Activities.

00:56:32.000 American activities on these revelations, although no one was prosecuted.

00:56:37.000 The Congressional Committee was prosecuted.

00:56:40.000 You would think that that might put you in jail. 1.00

00:56:43.000 You're trying to overthrow the fucking government. 1.00

00:56:46.000 These folks get away with it. 1.00

00:56:47.000 But it's kind of crazy.

00:56:49.000 No one was prosecuted, although no one was prosecuted.

00:56:52.000 The Congressional Committee final report said there's no question.

00:56:55.000 These attempts were discussed, were planned, and might have been placed in execution when and if the financial backers deemed it expedient.

00:57:04.000 You know, it's funny that no one was prosecuted, but if you did insider trading, you go straight to the pokey.

00:57:10.000 Martha Stewart.

00:57:11.000 Right.

00:57:12.000 Nobody was prosecuted for that.

00:57:14.000 They put Martha Stewart in jail for lying to the cops. 0.98

00:57:17.000 But not, but there's actual, you know, there's Congress, Congress folks that do it all the time.

00:57:23.000 They made an example out of Martha Stewart, I suppose. 1.00

00:57:26.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:57:28.000 Exactly.

00:57:28.000 I mean, there's Nancy Pelosi's now estimated to be worth $400 million.

00:57:34.000 You know, and that she's just What a great job. 0.99

00:57:36.000 It's a great job.

00:57:37.000 What a great job to have.

00:57:39.000 I should have gone into it.

00:57:40.000 Well, it makes you wonder, when you have $400 million and you're 82 years old, shouldn't you be going on cruises and just, like, enjoying your time off?

00:57:46.000 And why are you still working?.

00:57:50.000 What are you doing?

00:57:51.000 Lust for power.

00:57:52.000 No, I really care about power.

00:57:54.000 These people are clinging with their dying breath to every ounce of power.

00:57:59.000 No, no, no, I care.

00:58:00.000 I care about the American people.

00:58:05.000 Who really genuinely believes that anyone cares about us? 0.99

00:58:09.000 There's some lobotomized, no pun intended, suckers out there. 1.00

00:58:12.000 No. 1.00

00:58:13.000 There's some suckers out there. 0.99

00:58:14.000 And then there's a lot of bots. 0.87

00:58:15.000 There's a lot of people that are not real people that are commenting on both sides of the internet.

00:58:20.000 Like on the internet, yeah.

00:58:23.000 On both sides of it.

00:58:25.000 Stay out with the comments, kids.

00:58:27.000 Stay out of commentary because it's not real.

00:58:29.000 You're if You're interacting with narratives that are propped up.

00:58:34.000 It might be propped up by AI, might be propped up by bad state actors.

00:58:38.000 There's a lot going on, folks.

00:58:40.000 It's not all people talking about things, and that should be illegal.

00:58:43.000 Are there bot wars now?

00:58:44.000 100%.

00:58:46.000 Yeah, 100%.

00:58:46.000 Yeah.

00:58:47.000 There's bots fighting against bots versus your bots.

00:58:50.000 100%.

00:58:52.000 It's probably a giant chunk of the internet.

00:58:54.000 Are they real bots or are they like people in a call center?

00:58:57.000 Both things.

00:58:58.000 Both things.

00:58:59.000 Both things are real.

00:59:00.000 There's AI, for sure, that people are running programs that are Yeah, I get it.

00:59:03.000 That are saying certain things. 0.97

00:59:05.000 But there's also people some these pro-American sites, you know, and then people have done like an IP trace and they find out these people are in fucking Karachi. 1.00

00:59:18.000 They're in fucking Pakistan. 1.00

00:59:20.000 You know, they're in India, they're in China. 1.00

00:59:23.000 It's like, who knows who's doing it and why they're doing it?

00:59:27.000 But there's a bunch of foreign countries that would have a vested interest in keeping America very unstable. 1.00

00:59:34.000 You know, it's really good to have us out of each other's throats politically.

00:59:38.000 That's good for them.

00:59:39.000 It's good to crush our faith in democracy and make people consider communism.

00:59:46.000 and it gets really weird, you know, when you have a bunch of people that are throwing a bunch of opinions into any sort of like real important discussion about civilization and you realize like, oh my God, 80% of the people talking aren't just people.

01:00:04.000 Yeah.

01:00:05.000 They're either being hired to do this or it's AI or they're bots.

01:00:08.000 It seems to be like manufactured chaos in order to take the air out of the room, to suffocate information.

01:00:17.000 Also to make laws so they can clamp down on dissent.

01:00:22.000 Yeah.

01:00:23.000 The more you can have chaos online, the more it becomes unmanageable, the more you have to manage it.

01:00:30.000 Right.

01:00:31.000 And the more people ask you to come in and save them.

01:00:33.000 Please save us.

01:00:34.000 Save us from this.

01:00:36.000 There should be laws.

01:00:37.000 I mean, that's the hate speech.

01:00:39.000 That shouldn't be legal.

01:00:41.000 That's kind of the idea behind like the like false flag.

01:00:45.000 A hundred percent.

01:00:46.000 Gun.

01:00:47.000 Or like, I don't know.

01:00:47.000 Exactly.

01:00:49.000 I think that's what got us into Vietnam.

01:00:50.000 I think like Vegas.

01:00:51.000 Yeah.

01:00:53.000 Like the Mandalay Bay thing.

01:00:55.000 Like there's a lot of theories behind that one.

01:00:57.000 That's a weird one.

01:00:58.000 That's a weird one.

01:00:58.000 That one is going to bother me forever.

01:01:08.000 And it just, nothing lines up with it.

01:01:12.000 You weren't there, were you?

01:01:13.000 Were you in Vegas at the time?

01:01:14.000 No.

01:01:15.000 No, I was sitting in Nashville.

01:01:15.000 No.

01:01:17.000 But I just met, I was paying attention.

01:01:20.000 Yeah.

01:01:21.000 That was a crazy one.

01:01:24.000 And there's multiple reports of more than one person shooting.

01:01:27.000 And then there was like, how did he get 400 pounds of equipment into his room without anybody noticing it?

01:01:33.000 Yeah.

01:01:34.000 That seems crazy.

01:01:34.000 Like you got, a rifle case is a very distinctive kind of case.

01:01:39.000 Like, I'm assuming he''s carrying, like, you know, some kind of Pelican box.

01:01:44.000 So, like, something, some snapdown box.

01:01:48.000 Like, that's a pretty big box, man.

01:01:50.000 If you got a bunch of those and you're bringing them in along with boxes of ammunition, like, how much does that weigh?

01:01:55.000 How strong are you? 0.99

01:01:56.000 How, you know, like, if you had to carry 400 pounds of shit into a hotel room, that dude. 0.99

01:02:03.000 That would take a long time. 0.97

01:02:04.000 That dude wasn't doing all of it.

01:02:05.000 That's what I'm saying.

01:02:06.000 And, I mean, didn't the security guard witness go on Ellen to explain it?

01:02:11.000 Did they?

01:02:12.000 Yeah, see, was that, was his name Jesus?

01:02:14.000 Yeah.

01:02:15.000 Yeah, Campos.

01:02:17.000 Jamie's all over this..

01:02:20.000 I've been all over this from the jump.

01:02:22.000 This is a scene.

01:02:22.000 Okay.

01:02:24.000 This is one of the ones I know a lot of.

01:02:25.000 Oh, well, speak to us, young Jamie.

01:02:28.000 Speak to us.

01:02:29.000 You haven't said anything wrong yet, but there's a really good website someone put together called thelasvegashootingmap dot com, and they've got tracked little it's a Google map, but there's like little dots for YouTube videos, cell phone footage, 911 recordings, photos.

01:02:47.000 It's a complete timeline from the time before the concert started to like five days after.

01:02:52.000 What is the best theory about why that happened?

01:02:56.000 Conspiracy or real?

01:02:57.000 What is a conspiracy?

01:02:58.000 Give me the juicyest one.

01:03:00.000 A conspiracy that you read online, especially on a place like x dot com, would be that there was a let me try to word this right.

01:03:07.000 I think they were worried about the Saudi family or whoever is in control in Saudi Arabia was worried about MBS taking over.

01:03:13.000 And there was an event happening that he was in Vegas for, and they tried to use this chaos to take him out.

01:03:18.000 Whoa.

01:03:19.000 They found out about it, and then this led to this event happening the next month in November, where he got all these families to come to Four Seasons.

01:03:28.000 There was like kidnappings and extortions and all sorts of money.

01:03:34.000 He was basically pissed and he found out about it.

01:03:36.000 Oh, that happened a month later?

01:03:37.000 Whoa.

01:03:37.000 Yeah.

01:03:38.000 People have heard about that event happening, but tying it to the Las Vegas shooting, not a lot of people have done.

01:03:44.000 I just read about that part recently. 0.99

01:03:45.000 Holy shit, dude. 0.98

01:03:46.000 But how there's not a lot of proof of anything of that happening, but that's the conspiracy. 0.99

01:03:51.000 I thought it was like metal detectors in the casinos.

01:03:54.000 I mean, that's part of it.

01:03:56.000 People thought that they were trying to create an event so people would have to get body scanned in every casino.

01:04:00.000 Because there were people in the state government that had stock in these security systems.

01:04:07.000 Oh, God.

01:04:08.000 That's, I mean, it's diabolical.

01:04:10.000 God, I hope that's not true.

01:04:11.000 But there was apparently like, there's shells that were found in places that were outside of that hotel that hotel room.

01:04:19.000 Outside of the hotel room?

01:04:20.000 Yeah, or away from those windows.

01:04:23.000 Some people think that the second window was broken after the fact.

01:04:27.000 That one doesn't make any sense.

01:04:28.000 That's just.

01:04:29.000 And he died of a self inflicted gun shot wound allegedly, right?

01:04:32.000 Yeah.

01:04:33.000 So is the idea that he's a Patsy?

01:04:35.000 I guess.

01:04:36.000 That's right.

01:04:37.000 I mean, if you're going to follow that conspiracy I just laid out, then 100% you'd have to be.

01:04:41.000 But again, there's not a ton of evidence for that one.

01:04:43.000 There's some.

01:04:44.000 Wow.

01:04:46.000 Yeah.

01:04:46.000 Wow.

01:04:48.000 Mysteries.

01:04:49.000 What's the other theory?

01:04:50.000 Enigmas. 1.00

01:04:51.000 Sort of what he was getting into, where it's like there was this like tie in to just get body scanners everywhere.

01:04:56.000 That one makes sense.

01:04:58.000 The funniest one I'll show you a picture of.

01:04:59.000 You know how there's like a playing deck of cards that's got like every conspiracy from like the last twenty years in it?

01:05:05.000 Have you ever seen that going around?

01:05:06.000 No.

01:05:07.000 It's like the Twin Towers are in one picture and the one with Vegas I'll show you.

01:05:11.000 It's very Sam Tripley pointed this out to me there.

01:05:14.000 I'll show you.

01:05:14.000 You get into the Oklahoma City bombing?

01:05:18.000 I'm familiar.

01:05:20.000 That one gets really, really.

01:05:22.000 We got Ruby Ridge, Waco, Tim doing his thing, possibly with the team.

01:05:30.000 Yeah, those are all big.

01:05:33.000 What I'm getting at, what is this?

01:05:35.000 This is the card, the playing deck card.

01:05:36.000 It's a Vegas card.

01:05:38.000 It's got this, it says that there's a Tattoo?

01:05:40.000 This is Jason Aldeen's tattoo, who was the guy on stage when the shooting started.

01:05:44.000 It just so happens to be it's a jack and a ace.

01:05:44.000 What?

01:05:47.000 Now, that's a coincidence, but that's a crazy coincidence.

01:05:52.000 It's like how that could have been planned, don't know. 1.00

01:05:54.000 Yeah, but that's his fucking name, bro. 1.00

01:05:56.000 Jason Aldeen. 1.00

01:05:57.000 That's ridiculous. 0.99

01:05:59.000 That's a crazy connection to make. 0.98

01:06:01.000 His literal name is Jason Aldeen.

01:06:03.000 Oh, J and.

01:06:04.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:06:05.000 Yeah, there's a microphone and a jack and a ace.

01:06:09.000 Yeah.

01:06:10.000 With the J and an A on it.

01:06:11.000 It's wild. 0.92

01:06:12.000 So that's silly.

01:06:13.000 Yeah. 0.94

01:06:14.000 That's silly. 0.99

01:06:16.000 That one needs to be shut up. 1.00

01:06:19.000 That's outrageous. 0.97

01:06:20.000 Yeah.

01:06:21.000 But it's just when you think that someone might have done something like that, someone might do a mass shooting so they could take out one dude, like blame it on this guy.

01:06:35.000 Like how much planning has to be involved in that?

01:06:38.000 And then like how do you get the Patsy? 0.92

01:06:39.000 You get this guy who's just like a degenerate gambler.

01:06:44.000 That's what he was, right? 0.52

01:06:45.000 It was just a poker player, right?

01:06:46.000 Yeah, they said they made a bunch of money playing video poker, which is like, if you make that much money playing video poker, they're not going to let you keep playing.

01:06:52.000 Really?

01:06:53.000 Dana made money playing blackjack, and they're like, you can't play here anymore.

01:06:56.000 Like, if you're good and you're making money, they say, we don't want you to do that.

01:07:00.000 Yeah, they booted Dana out of the palms back in the day. 1.00

01:07:03.000 That's what it was with the palms, I think.

01:07:05.000 Well, like, I don't know.

01:07:08.000 OKC, was that to destroy information?

01:07:10.000 Is that the conspiracy?

01:07:13.000 Is he there?

01:07:15.000 That, like, in the Oklahoma City bombing, there was a bunch of info in the building that they wanted to...

01:07:21.000 Perhaps.

01:07:22.000 Because I know some of Bill Clinton's stuff maybe disappeared.

01:07:36.000 And that destruction was the way a bomb generally works.

01:07:41.000 Like it goes from this is where the bomb detonates and then all the energy goes outward, right?

01:07:47.000 If you're parked right in front of a building, how does the building blow outward this way?

01:07:54.000 And why were there all these reports of the FBI and bomb units pulling additional undetonated bombs from the building?

01:08:02.000 Right.

01:08:03.000 Look at how the building blew out.

01:08:05.000 That's kind of crazy.

01:08:05.000 I know.

01:08:07.000 Absolute devastation.

01:08:08.000 I mean, but it really depends entirely on the size of the bomb, right?

01:08:12.000 So if you have a bomb, like see where that blue area is?

01:08:15.000 That's where supposedly I think where the bomb went off.

01:08:18.000 If you have an immense bomb that is right there and it just blows up and that's the force of it all around like in a sort of conical effect, that kind of makes sense.

01:08:29.000 But a lot of people think that the amount of power that you would generate from a fertilizer bomb is not really capable of doing that kind of damage.

01:08:42.000 Did they?

01:08:42.000 And Alex Jones, who was one of the first person that I ever heard talk about this.

01:08:49.000 Yeah.

01:08:50.000 He played all these news reports of them talking about finding additional bombs.

01:08:56.000 Right.

01:08:58.000 Like it was on the news.

01:08:59.000 So they were talking about the FBI or whoever it was.

01:09:01.000 Was the ATF in that building?

01:09:04.000 I believe something.

01:09:05.000 And maybe they would have had some information.

01:09:09.000 Was also changed some of the laws after that bombing?

01:09:12.000 Yeah.

01:09:13.000 Some explosives could have been in their possession even or something.

01:09:17.000 Oh, that like it blew up because of the other thing blowing up?

01:09:20.000 I mean, perhaps, but they didn't say that.

01:09:22.000 And it's pretty odd that the ATF offices would have just bombs laying around.

01:09:26.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:09:28.000 That doesn't make any sense.

01:09:29.000 Like, why do you guys have bombs in the brook?

01:09:31.000 We're really studying.

01:09:32.000 Yeah, we're studying actual live bombs.

01:09:34.000 I don't think so.

01:09:35.000 That doesn't make any sense.

01:09:36.000 They're pretty good about taking care of bombs.

01:09:39.000 But see if you can find anything about reports of additional bombs from Oklahoma City.

01:09:46.000 They were looking for a second person for a while.

01:09:49.000 Yeah, they were looking for a second person, too.

01:09:52.000 But I mean, there's also this problem with the fog of eyewitness accounts and everything after a catastrophe.

01:10:00.000 Like one thing that happens about events is no one really like if you're there and some fucking thing blows up it's it's entirely dependent upon your makeup whether or not you can even objectively recall exactly what happened depending upon like how freaked out you are by this and how used to being freaked out you are. 0.96

01:10:22.000 Maybe you're a veteran, maybe you've served overseas and like you can actually give an accurate account of this because you've been around crazy shit.

01:10:29.000 But if you haven't, it's very likely that, you know, people are very confused afterwards. 0.95

01:10:35.000 I would have been totally shook.

01:10:37.000 No credible evidence of additional bombs being found.

01:10:40.000 Initial confusion, this is AI over you.

01:10:46.000 In the immediate aftermath of the AI, by the way, that still thinks the COVID vaccine saved millions of lives.

01:10:51.000 In the immediate aftermath of the bombing, some news reports and individuals speculated about multiple explosions.

01:10:58.000 Okay, news reports.

01:11:00.000 Why would they say that if there was no reason to say that?

01:11:05.000 Conflicting reports.

01:11:06.000 Some theories suggested a second, even third bomb were involved, citing nearby seismograph readings and witness accounts.

01:11:13.000 Seismograph.

01:11:14.000 So there was multiple seismograph readings.

01:11:18.000 Experts, expert disagreement.

01:11:20.000 Oh, I love when they call in the experts.

01:11:22.000 However, experts, including physicists and engineers that are not named, stated that the second tremor recorded by the seismographs was likely caused by the buildings collapsed.

01:11:33.000 Not another bomb.

01:11:34.000 Go to sleep, America. 0.97

01:11:36.000 Conspiracy theories.

01:11:38.000 Some conspiracy theorists continued to promote the idea of additional bombs, even though there was news reports, often citing discrepancies in the observed damage or expert opinions.

01:11:49.000 Yeah, the observed damage is kind of crazy.

01:11:51.000 The damage is kind of crazy.

01:11:53.000 It looks like it's blown out.

01:11:55.000 You know, that's a huge, huge demo job, man.

01:12:00.000 Well, it's just weird.

01:12:02.000 You know, it's and it's his Timothy McVeigh's reason for doing it.

01:12:06.000 All of it is weird.

01:12:08.000 Right.

01:12:09.000 Like, wasn't it?

01:12:10.000 it was revenge for the government's intervention with Ruby Ridge on the Waco.

01:12:16.000 Right, right. 0.93

01:12:18.000 So he was going to take on the I mean, how does this extremist organization get infiltrated by the government when they find some suckers?

01:12:26.000 Well, didn't they didn't they find like the folks who were going to kidnap the governor or something?

01:12:31.000 It was just like, wasn't it all the government?

01:12:34.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:12:36.000 It was twelve out of fourteen people were government agents.

01:12:43.000 And then those two guys went to jail.

01:12:45.000 So the two that weren't?

01:12:47.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:12:48.000 And the two that weren't, it wasn't even their idea. 0.98

01:12:50.000 They were like dorks that were larping. 0.97

01:12:52.000 Right. 0.99

01:12:52.000 Like, yeah, man, we're gonna blow up the government. 0.99

01:12:54.000 Right. 1.00

01:12:55.000 The fucking losers. 1.00

01:12:56.000 They wanted friends, you know? 1.00

01:12:57.000 They wanted friends and they found friends in these extremists. 0.99

01:13:00.000 And they thought that these guys, you know, they fucking meet up and talk about kidnapping the governor. 1.00

01:13:04.000 Like, they thought it was all bullshit. 1.00

01:13:06.000 Those guys literally said they thought we were never going to do this. 0.99

01:13:09.000 And then the feds come knocking on their door.

01:13:09.000 Yeah.

01:13:12.000 Well, one of the wildest ones, they radicalized this young guy who was 19 years old, I believe it was in Dallas.

01:13:19.000 They radicalized him and then they gave him a bomb that was fake and then gave him a cell phone to detonate the bomb.

01:13:28.000 And then when he tried to use the cell phone to detonate the bomb, they arrested him.

01:13:32.000 Because even though it was fake, even though it didn't work, even though they gave it to him, even though they talked him into doing it, they arrested him for terrorism because he was willing to listen to them.

01:13:43.000 Which is crazy.

01:13:44.000 Why do you do that?

01:13:45.000 Well, also, you're doing it to a young guy who probably, like, this is the first time in his life, he felt like he had any purpose.

01:13:53.000 Like, you've mindful.

01:13:54.000 You mindfucked him into believing that he's doing this for a greater good. 0.98

01:13:58.000 You know, you're mindfucking him to telling him that, like, you know, he's going to put a dent in the great Satan by detonating this bomb and you're going to go down in history, you're going to be huge. 1.00

01:14:08.000 And he's just a dumb guy, just a dumb dude who they talk into it and then they arrest him. 1.00

01:14:14.000 Like, we stop terrorism. 1.00

01:14:16.000 You fucking made it, bitch. 1.00

01:14:18.000 And then you fix the problem, fix the problem. 1.00

01:14:18.000 You made it. 1.00

01:14:20.000 It's kind of like the pharmaceutical industry or something.

01:14:23.000 Well, it's a pattern.

01:14:24.000 Yeah.

01:14:25.000 It's a pattern that, but it's just a weird one that we tolerate under the rule of law. 0.99

01:14:31.000 Like, that seems pretty crazy that you guys made a plot to kidnap the governor you guys twelve twelve out of fourteen of the people who are involved were working with the government and then you know it should be like well okay whose idea was it it was Mike's idea he was the first one to say Mike you work for the government this is crazy Mike you can't arrest Tom because it was your idea Mike you fucking asshole But yeah, yeah, yeah, but I was working for the government. 0.99

01:15:01.000 I mean, I was like, I'm fine, right? 0.99

01:15:03.000 Right.

01:15:04.000 And then he gets, they all get just disappear.

01:15:07.000 Nobody hears them.

01:15:08.000 Nobody knows their name.

01:15:09.000 Nobody knows who they are.

01:15:10.000 They're probably doing it right now.

01:15:11.000 They go into the private sector.

01:15:13.000 They're there.

01:15:14.000 I don't know.

01:15:16.000 Who knows?

01:15:17.000 Who knows?

01:15:19.000 Over with Blackwater or something.

01:15:23.000 Sure.

01:15:23.000 Who knows who was instructing them to do what they were doing in the first place?

01:15:27.000 Why did you guys decide that you're going to kidnap the governor?

01:15:29.000 Is there higher ups that told you this is a good idea to plot this?

01:15:34.000 What are we trying to do?

01:15:35.000 I just wonder how much within those...

01:15:38.000 Within...

01:15:41.000 even these buildings, like, what's the communication like in a huge organization like the FBI?

01:15:49.000 or something.

01:15:50.000 Are there people over on floor two that have no idea what's going on on floor four?

01:15:55.000 100%.

01:15:56.000 100%.

01:15:57.000 Yeah, 100%.

01:15:58.000 Just pockets, pockets of intelligence, little microcosms of people working, you know?

01:16:06.000 Well, talking to people that actually work in the government, they'll tell you there are people that are in charge of each individual office, and they're like a czar of this office.

01:16:17.000 You got to get through them.

01:16:19.000 And they can put the cabosh on anything you're trying to do.

01:16:21.000 And they're hiding information from the rest of the office, hiding information from other agencies.

01:16:28.000 Yeah.

01:16:28.000 When I was a kid, I dated this girl who worked for the government and one of her jobs was this was like really the very beginning of computers.

01:16:38.000 So 91 maybe somewhere around then, maybe 2, maybe 92.

01:16:44.000 And her job was to help distribute information, say if the Navy did a study that the Army would have access to it.

01:16:53.000 So it was all on a database.

01:16:55.000 So this was like really, really early.

01:16:58.000 Right.

01:16:58.000 Because they didn't share information with each other.

01:17:00.000 But they still don't share information.

01:17:02.000 No.

01:17:03.000 They're in competition with each other.

01:17:04.000 Yeah.

01:17:06.000 And some of them don't like each other. 1.00

01:17:08.000 There's agencies that don't let those fucking pussies over at the CIA and those faggots over at the FBI Like there's still like a lot of that stupid shit that goes on There's a lot of that stupid shit that goes on just like there's people that root for the fucking dolphins and other people root for the Raiders People get tribal people get really weird man They get tribal with every damn thing that they do every damn thing that they do and it's us against them You know we're a Xerox is gonna take over the copying world fuck all those other pussies It's like 1.00

01:17:38.000 as above so below and the part the the patterns the patterns go down forever Well, we have the pattern patterns of territorial apes. 1.00

01:17:48.000 That's the problem.

01:17:49.000 We have the consistent patterns of territorial apes and those patterns find their way into everything.

01:17:56.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:17:56.000 They find their way into fucking poetry slang. 0.99

01:17:59.000 I mean, it's music. 1.00

01:18:01.000 Yeah.

01:18:01.000 Music's like that.

01:18:02.000 Yeah, sure, right?

01:18:03.000 Yeah.

01:18:04.000 Comedy's like that.

01:18:06.000 It is to some extent.

01:18:07.000 Yeah.

01:18:08.000 Yeah.

01:18:08.000 In certain circles it is, in certain circles it's not.

01:18:11.000 But it's...

01:18:15.000 Everyone is fighting for dominance.

01:18:17.000 Yeah.

01:18:17.000 In this really gross, weird way.

01:18:20.000 And I think it's just our genetics.

01:18:23.000 I think it's the pattern of how we got here for the first place and how the human reward systems are all set up.

01:18:31.000 They're set up to try to conquer things. 0.85

01:18:33.000 And whether you're conquering video game development or you're making the best folding phone, it's like we're going to kick ass over Google.

01:18:42.000 Everybody has their own little thing, their own little realm they're trying to conquer.

01:18:45.000 Right.

01:18:46.000 And it feels great.

01:18:48.000 No, I don't think it does. 0.98

01:18:49.000 You don't think it feels great to kick ass at something? 0.95

01:18:51.000 Well, I mean, you want, like, I think certain, I mean, certainly does. 0.94

01:18:54.000 The pursuit of excellence is like the most joy rendering thing that there is.

01:18:59.000 That aspect of it.

01:19:00.000 But, you know, the aspect of crushing your enemies.

01:19:03.000 I wonder how much fun.

01:19:05.000 Well, you don't have to have like I don't This is the thing is like playing guitar or something.

01:19:10.000 I don't have an enemy.

01:19:11.000 But you're an artist.

01:19:12.000 You're not a corporation.

01:19:13.000 I'm just a corporation.

01:19:16.000 Are you an LLC yet?

01:19:18.000 Did you sign up for the Devil's Deal?

01:19:20.000 What is a limited liability corporation?

01:19:23.000 A lot of people do, so.

01:19:25.000 I don't have a record deal.

01:19:27.000 That's what you're saying.

01:19:28.000 No, no, no, no.

01:19:29.000 When you start making money, they tell you to form an LLC.

01:19:34.000 What is it going to do?

01:19:35.000 It's like you become like a little corporation.

01:19:37.000 And that way you pay yourself from the corporation.

01:19:39.000 You can lease a car from the corporation.

01:19:42.000 That'd be kind of fun.

01:19:43.000 You probably have to do that someday, eventually.

01:19:46.000 I'll be in a corporation.

01:19:47.000 Maybe after this podcast, you'll have to do that.

01:19:51.000 Call it bottomless wells.

01:20:01.000 That's the most fun.

01:20:02.000 And it does seem like it is what, anytime you're in a hard place or anything.

01:20:09.000 like that mentally or yeah like the the best way out is like find something to try to get good at or try something, you know, and then try your best at it.

01:20:21.000 Yeah.

01:20:22.000 I get it.

01:20:22.000 And it just seems innate.

01:20:24.000 I think so.

01:20:25.000 Like, no matter what it is.

01:20:27.000 Right, but the problem is if that thing is making money, then it gets weird, right?

01:20:32.000 Like, if your whole thing you're good at and you try to get better at is just making money, that's when things get really squirrely.

01:20:39.000 Because the same thing that makes you really good at writing songs could make another person really good at being a psychopath. 0.92

01:20:44.000 Because the best way to make money is to be completely feelingless and not give a shit about who this is going to impact. 0.98

01:20:51.000 You know? 0.94

01:20:52.000 Ship all those jobs overseas.

01:20:53.000 Look how much money we're going to make. 1.00

01:20:55.000 Fuck all the. 1.00

01:20:55.000 Do this to that. 1.00

01:20:56.000 Listen, if we don't take care of this environmental pollutant and we just let it leak out.

01:21:02.000 We save X amount of money.

01:21:03.000 Right.

01:21:04.000 Do that.

01:21:05.000 Then that's where things get weird.

01:21:05.000 Right.

01:21:07.000 You figure out the best way to make money.

01:21:09.000 Like you're really good at making money and that becomes your creativity.

01:21:12.000 You get really creative about moving around the law in order to make money.

01:21:16.000 You get really creative about how you establish relationships with people and how you can, you know, make sure that laws are passed that favor what you're doing.

01:21:26.000 That's a strange art.

01:21:27.000 Very weird art.

01:21:29.000 That's a dark art.

01:21:30.000 That is.

01:21:31.000 That is the dark art.

01:21:32.000 It's a dark art.

01:21:33.000 Snape never thought about that one dog.

01:21:35.000 Well, it's not a creative art, but it is creative in some ways.

01:21:39.000 It taps into that same thing, but in a very negative way.

01:21:44.000 You know, maybe positive for that person's bank account, but negative in terms of its impact.

01:21:48.000 But do they even care about their bank account at that point?

01:21:51.000 Like, what is it to them?

01:21:52.000 It's something totally different.

01:21:54.000 That's the world they live in, man. 0.99

01:21:55.000 Like, if you're a fucking prison warden, the world you live in is like, these are the rules in order to stay alive as a prison warden. 0.99

01:22:03.000 This is what you're going to do. 1.00

01:22:04.000 If you're a prison guard, if you're on the floor with all these inmates, this is what you do to stay alive.

01:22:10.000 This is what you do to maintain order.

01:22:12.000 This is what you do to make sure people listen and fall in line.

01:22:15.000 Like, once you're there., that's you have to do that.

01:22:19.000 Right?

01:22:19.000 Like if you're there, if you're a prison guard, this is what you do.

01:22:24.000 And I think if you're a guy who is in charge of, like you're an economic hitman, like John Perkins, you know that?

01:22:32.000 You ever read that book?

01:22:33.000 Uh uh.

01:22:35.000 What they do is they would give enormous loans to countries that definitely couldn't fucking pay it off and then, you know, come in and start extracting resources.

01:22:44.000 Yeah.

01:22:45.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:22:45.000 I mean, China does that, the United States does that, many countries have been involved in that kind of shit. 1.00

01:22:52.000 And they're creative in that way. 0.99

01:22:54.000 Are there NGOs doing that?

01:22:56.000 I'm sure.

01:22:57.000 Like, is that what?

01:22:58.000 I'm sure.

01:22:59.000 Is that what, oh, Billy, Billy G is up to?

01:23:04.000 Billy G?

01:23:05.000 Yeah.

01:23:06.000 Microsoft.

01:23:07.000 Oh.

01:23:07.000 Well, he's involved in a lot of the...

01:23:19.000 Because everyone's everyone's got notes once they Yeah.

01:23:23.000 Well, it's called philanthrocapitalism, you know, and that being a philanthropist is actually very profitable, which is weird.

01:23:35.000 Yeah.

01:23:35.000 From just from vaccines.

01:23:37.000 Dude, philanthropy.

01:23:38.000 It's far out.

01:23:39.000 I have a song about philanthropy.

01:23:41.000 Do you?

01:23:41.000 It's called Philanthropist.

01:23:44.000 Let's hear it.

01:23:45.000 Put it on there.

01:23:46.000 Put it on.

01:23:47.000 Jamie'll find it.

01:23:50.000 You know, like real true philanthropy, when you're, you know, you're giving money away because you're just a kind person is wonderful.

01:23:56.000 It's beautiful.

01:23:57.000 You know?

01:23:58.000 I like it when it's done silently.

01:24:01.000 That's the only way to properly do it, right?

01:24:04.000 hearing you.

01:24:11.000 When I was just a boy, my mama asked me this.

01:24:15.000 She said, Son, what do you want to be?

01:24:17.000 I said, a big philanthropist.

01:24:19.000 With data as my oil, and illness as my business.

01:24:23.000 With guns as my retirement, and war as my mistress. 0.78

01:24:27.000 I'm going to be an oligarch with a whole bunch of rockets.

01:24:31.000 I'd teach them two sides fightin' and I'd empty both of their pockets.

01:24:35.000 And if I got bored, harmony weary.

01:24:40.000 I'd try my hand in dabbling in social engineering.

01:24:43.000 I'm going to be a billionaire with a big foundation with history.

01:24:48.000 We used to rule in shadows, but I'd come right out and I'd rule the nation.

01:24:52.000 I'm going to do all my own laundry in a third world nation state. 1.00

01:24:57.000 Experiment with the locals like some philanthropic saint and I'd never make a cure.

01:25:04.000 Not get your treatment planned. 0.99

01:25:07.000 You can die in slow installments and I'll bleed you while I can. 0.99

01:25:12.000 Then I'll travel around the planet in a big old mystery jet. 0.99

01:25:18.000 What I did would be my business and what you did I would collect.

01:25:23.000 If I was a philanthropist just, not a whole lot of help just for myself, but I gotta make it look convincing.

01:25:37.000 You nailed it.

01:25:38.000 That's that's philanthropic capitalism right there.

01:25:41.000 Do.

01:25:42.000 It's far out.

01:25:42.000 In a song.

01:25:45.000 That's a good song.

01:25:47.000 It shouldn't be It shouldn't It shouldn't be allowed.

01:25:50.000 It shouldn't be allowed.

01:25:53.000 Well, it shouldn't be that easy to trick people.

01:25:55.000 Who believes it?

01:25:56.000 I'm like, who in the hell would think that this is good things happen because of it, but more bad things happen than good a lot of the time.

01:26:08.000 And you're holding an entire nation hostage or an entire group of people hostage by lending them money.

01:26:14.000 That's not freedom.

01:26:15.000 No.

01:26:17.000 You're not going to be free.

01:26:18.000 Yeah, it's real weird.

01:26:21.000 Because there's...

01:26:40.000 This is clearly a scam.

01:26:42.000 You're not kind people trying to fix the world.

01:26:44.000 You're profiting off of this idea of being a kind person that wants to fix the world.

01:26:48.000 And you're doing a little bit of help.

01:26:49.000 You're doing about 10% of help, maybe 20% of help, maybe even 30% for a good organization.

01:26:54.000 But the reality is it's about you, which is crazy.

01:26:59.000 Imagine if just you said, hey, man, my friend's sick.

01:27:04.000 Do you think you could donate some money to my friend because he doesn't have any health insurance?

01:27:10.000 And we were like, yeah, man, what do we got to do? 0.65

01:27:14.000 then everybody gives you money and then you take 70 percent of it and we go hey dude what the fuck and you're like you're like hey man i worked to get that money for him. 0.92

01:27:25.000 I had to call you guys. 0.91

01:27:26.000 I really, I put in the time.

01:27:28.000 I need some of that money.

01:27:29.000 I need 70% of that money. 0.99

01:27:31.000 You'd be like, what the fuck are you talking about? 0.99

01:27:33.000 Your friends would never talk to you again. 1.00

01:27:35.000 Everybody would hate you.

01:27:36.000 But meanwhile, if you do this for an NGO, you get celebrated.

01:27:41.000 Right.

01:27:43.000 Insane.

01:27:45.000 It's insane.

01:27:46.000 It is insane.

01:27:47.000 And it's real.

01:27:48.000 The weirdest thing about it is this isn't a conspiracy theory.

01:27:51.000 This is real.

01:27:52.000 This is really how most of them operate.

01:27:54.000 Some of them it's 90%.

01:27:56.000 Some of them it's 90-10%.

01:27:57.000 Yeah.

01:27:59.000 There's good ones out there though.

01:28:01.000 There's really good ones where most of the money goes to the charity and that's awesome.

01:28:06.000 There's real people out there that are really kind people that are genuine philanthropists and most of them live very humble lives.

01:28:12.000 Because that's you don't make a million dollars a year if you're doing it right.

01:28:12.000 Right.

01:28:17.000 Right.

01:28:17.000 You just don't.

01:28:18.000 Right.

01:28:19.000 You know?

01:28:20.000 You just don't.

01:28:20.000 And if you are making a million dollars a year, chances are you might be a vampire.

01:28:27.000 Yeah.

01:28:29.000 I mean, That guy was all over the all over the flight logs and everything.

01:28:36.000 Which guy was?

01:28:37.000 Which guy?

01:28:37.000 Gates.

01:28:38.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:28:38.000 Oh, yeah.

01:28:40.000 All tangled up and all sorts of stuff, man.

01:28:43.000 Yeah.

01:28:44.000 He was tangled up and all sorts of stuff after that guy went to jail.

01:28:48.000 After he went to jail and came out the first time.

01:28:51.000 Gates was hanging with him still.

01:28:51.000 Yeah.

01:28:53.000 As were many people.

01:28:53.000 Yeah.

01:28:56.000 It's real weird stuff, man.

01:28:58.000 real weird.

01:28:59.000 Because it seems that it's like one He's cool.

01:29:11.000 It's a good place to go and get your freak on.

01:29:13.000 Because if you're a really businessman and everyone knows you are, like a Bill Gates type character.

01:29:21.000 You can't just go get some head.

01:29:23.000 Like, what do you do? 1.00

01:29:24.000 How do you how do you get your fuck on? 1.00

01:29:26.000 You know? 1.00

01:29:27.000 What do you do?

01:29:28.000 Is that what is that who Jeff was?

01:29:30.000 I don't know.

01:29:31.000 Was he the fixer in that?

01:29:33.000 I would just be speculating.

01:29:36.000 I would just be speculating, but a good friend of mine who's very intelligent said this to me, he said, There's people that want certain experiences and there's people that provide these powerful people with experiences.

01:29:47.000 And that's how they fit into the social structure.

01:29:50.000 They're there to help.

01:29:51.000 They can keep their mouths shut and they help people get these experiences.

01:29:55.000 Right.

01:29:56.000 And then there's probably some sort of a wild rush of being naughty and doing things you're not supposed to be doing. 0.98

01:30:03.000 We can get away with it because we're worth 800 billion dollars or whatever the fuck they're worth. 0.98

01:30:08.000 They're trying very hard to get away with this one. 0.98

01:30:11.000 I don't know if the people are going to forget.

01:30:16.000 People are never going to forget.

01:30:18.000 The problem is do we have any power?

01:30:21.000 What do we do?

01:30:22.000 You know, what do you do?

01:30:23.000 I mean, you definitely can change the way you vote, like if it comes up again, but the problem is this is a bipartisan issue.

01:30:29.000 It's bipartisan.

01:30:31.000 I don't know.

01:30:31.000 I heard it as a democratic hoax.

01:30:35.000 Yeah.

01:30:36.000 I don't think that's true certainly not a hoax if you go to jail.

01:30:41.000 Certainly not a hoax if Glaine Maxwell's in jail too. 0.99

01:30:44.000 So like, she's in jail for sex trafficking. 0.97

01:30:46.000 Excuse me. 0.70

01:30:47.000 She's in jail for sex trafficking. 0.99

01:30:49.000 But the question is to who?

01:30:51.000 Who's she in jail? 1.00

01:30:52.000 You have to be sex trafficking to someone.

01:30:55.000 Somebody.

01:30:56.000 In order to go to jail, right?

01:30:57.000 So who?

01:30:59.000 How does that work?

01:31:00.000 She's been in jail for years. 1.00

01:31:02.000 So like, how does that work?

01:31:04.000 Is she looking at a pardon?

01:31:06.000 Are they gonna?

01:31:08.000 I don't know, but they just moved her to another prison.

01:31:10.000 They moved.

01:31:11.000 It's supposed to be a nice prison.

01:31:13.000 As far as prisons are concerned. 0.87

01:31:14.000 They moved her to kill her? 0.90

01:31:17.000 Could be. 0.97

01:31:19.000 But why would you waste the money to move someone if you wanted to kill them? 0.99

01:31:24.000 I'm sure they could kill her pretty easy. 0.98

01:31:26.000 I don't know. 0.99

01:31:27.000 You know?

01:31:28.000 But the question is, does she have dead woman switches? 1.00

01:31:31.000 What's the dead man switches?

01:31:31.000 You know what I mean?

01:31:34.000 Like when tripwire?

01:31:35.000 Yeah.

01:31:36.000 Like if I die, I want you to do this for me. 0.99

01:31:39.000 And then whether it's in Israel, whether it's in Canada, whoever the fuck the person is that you have that you give this information to, you just say, if anything happens to me, let this loose. 0.99

01:31:49.000 And then you tell them, like, look, I have this, that, this, and that. 0.97

01:31:53.000 I have all these tapes.

01:31:54.000 I have all these videos.

01:31:55.000 And if anything happens to me, all this goes online.

01:31:58.000 So leave me alone.

01:32:01.000 If that were true.

01:32:03.000 That's a real thing that people do.

01:32:05.000 It's called a dead man switch.

01:32:06.000 Dead man switch.

01:32:08.000 Yeah.

01:32:09.000 That's how people maintain life.

01:32:12.000 If you have information that's really sensitive, they have to trust you.

01:32:18.000 If someone trusts you to not tell something that can ruin their empire of hundreds of of billions of dollars and put them in jail possibly they have to trust you they're not going to trust you they don't trust you but if they know that you know that if you tell them they'll kill you and then they know that if they kill you you'll have the dead man switch.

01:32:42.000 We got a stalemate.

01:32:42.000 Okay.

01:32:43.000 So let them let the fucker live. 1.00

01:32:45.000 This is mutually assured destruction. 1.00

01:32:47.000 Some kind of nuclear standoff.

01:32:47.000 Exactly.

01:32:50.000 Yeah, they're pointing missiles at each other.

01:32:52.000 Information missiles at each other.

01:32:57.000 It's dark, dude.

01:33:00.000 But it makes for a good spy novel.

01:33:02.000 If just America, the way it actually works, it'd be a crazy novel.

01:33:05.000 You'd be like, this is nuts.

01:33:07.000 Like a Tom Wolf, something or another.

01:33:10.000 Yeah.

01:33:11.000 Just with the, if you actually knew the actual facts, I bet it would be quite fascinating.

01:33:16.000 Yeah.

01:33:16.000 Like we have these narratives that we assume are real about even about history.

01:33:22.000 And I bet a lot of them are full of shit too, you know? 0.99

01:33:26.000 Bill Murray was on the podcast, it was really interesting, and he read Bob Woodward's story about his good friend, John Belushi. 1.00

01:33:33.000 Right.

01:33:34.000 So he said, I read five pages of it.

01:33:35.000 I was like, oh my God, they framed Nixon.

01:33:38.000 Right.

01:33:38.000 Isn't that crazy?

01:33:38.000 Right.

01:33:39.000 Well, I mean, isn't Bob Woodward, he's known to have been hired or at least worked with CIA and he was an intelligence agent.

01:33:46.000 Yeah, he was intelligent and he first did his job.

01:33:48.000 He builds the narratives.

01:33:50.000 It was also his first job as a journalist.

01:33:53.000 Yeah.

01:33:54.000 Which is how?

01:33:55.000 How do senior journalists not get that job?

01:33:57.000 You're you're literally going to take down a president.

01:34:00.000 I didn't see that aspect of it in all the president's men.

01:34:03.000 Dustin Hoffman and Robert Redford?

01:34:03.000 Who was that?

01:34:05.000 Yeah.

01:34:07.000 Yeah, you don't get that.

01:34:08.000 You don't get that.

01:34:10.000 Because that was before the internet.

01:34:11.000 Yeah.

01:34:12.000 Like they could get away with a movie like that.

01:34:14.000 I kinda I kinda wonder if they, listen, I'm sure that I'm actually I don't know anything about Do you know Tom Hanks?

01:34:24.000 Tom Hanks the actor?

01:34:25.000 Yeah.

01:34:26.000 Yeah, I don't know him personally.

01:34:26.000 Yeah.

01:34:28.000 Okay.

01:34:29.000 I just wonder if every, every once in a while when the government needs to explain something to the public in a way that puts us in the best light, if they commission a movie through Hollywood and stick Tom Hanks in it, man, he's just explained so much to us over the years with Charlie Wilson's war.

01:34:54.000 It's like, here's how the Save and Private House.

01:34:56.000 That's how this goes.

01:35:01.000 You know, Forrest Gump is kind of a nostalgia fest about the Vietnam War.

01:35:07.000 It kind of makes light of it.

01:35:15.000 I actually don't know about the Polar Express.

01:35:17.000 Animated movie.

01:35:18.000 Well, my friend Sam was telling me, my friend Sam Tripley was telling me that, and I had heard this, that during World War I, they had a problem that soldiers were not shooting at the enemy.

01:35:28.000 They didn't want to kill them.

01:35:29.000 They didn't want to be there.

01:35:30.000 And so they were firing their guns but not even aiming them at the enemy.

01:35:33.000 Right.

01:35:34.000 So to combat this, they started making movies.

01:35:37.000 And then in the movies, these war movies, the soldiers would shoot the enemy and they were like really heroes.

01:35:43.000 And so then in World War II, people were much more willing to shoot the enemy.

01:35:51.000 Gee.

01:35:51.000 Isn't that crazy?

01:35:52.000 Yeah.

01:35:53.000 Like, so the intelligence communities have been deeply involved in movie making from the very beginning because back then movies were the most powerful narrative in all of society.

01:36:04.000 Right.

01:36:05.000 And there was no counter narrative, not to speak of.

01:36:08.000 Nothing that went global or even that was like publicly mass distributed.

01:36:12.000 There was nothing.

01:36:13.000 I mean, you might have people in coffee shops saying, hey, man, I read this and this and that.

01:36:18.000 But there were small groups of people.

01:36:20.000 Most people were in the dark.

01:36:22.000 Even if you had a counter narrative, you'd be like Pete Seager and get blacklisted in the 50s, you know, a musician.

01:36:27.000 You'd be Smedley Butler.

01:36:29.000 But, well, you're right, who was in the end of his career.

01:36:33.000 Yeah.

01:36:36.000 It's a wonder he survived his own tell all there with War is a racket.

01:36:42.000 Yeah.

01:36:42.000 So it doesn't seem to do a whole lot whatever.

01:36:47.000 World War II is just, you know, six years after.

01:36:50.000 I know.

01:36:51.000 Crazy.

01:36:52.000 Isn't it crazy though that they made movies about war to encourage people to just shoot the enemy when they see them?

01:36:59.000 Because most people, it's probably so abstract to them.

01:37:02.000 Like they're from, like especially if they had just gotten there from Europe, right? 0.95

01:37:07.000 So imagine if you're dealing with World War 1, like a lot of those people probably recently arrived in America, right? 0.98

01:37:15.000 And then now you're being sent over to France, now you're being sent over to Germany, like you're involved in a fucking war now, you're in a trench war. 0.90

01:37:24.000 Well, I don't know. 0.94

01:37:25.000 America was pretty was really not wanting to get in with World War 1 anyway.

01:37:30.000 Yeah.

01:37:31.000 Was it the Lusitania?

01:37:33.000 Some folks think that even might have been, you know, a false.

01:37:36.000 Do they think that was a false one?

01:37:38.000 It could have been.

01:37:39.000 Well, I mean, that's a long...

01:37:40.000 There's a long history of false flags that got us into war.

01:37:44.000 I mean, it goes back to Nero burning Rome, you know, and what they did with the Gulf of Tonkin incident is...

01:37:52.000 Well, let's go pull that up.

01:37:54.000 Nero was so crazy, dude.

01:37:55.000 You know one of the things Nero did? 0.98

01:37:57.000 He beat his pregnant wife to death, and then he found a slave that looked like his wife, a boy, castrated him, and said, this is my wife. 0.61

01:37:57.000 What? 0.61

01:38:06.000 and paraded this person around.

01:38:08.000 Sporus is his name.

01:38:10.000 French stuff, man.

01:38:11.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:38:12.000 And just fucked this poor dude with no dick that he had his dick cut off, and then passed that guy off. 1.00

01:38:18.000 to someone else and that guy eventually wound up committing suicide. 1.00

01:38:23.000 Yeah.

01:38:25.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:38:26.000 Nero was a complete, total psychopath. 0.98

01:38:30.000 So there was this one false flag incident. 0.98

01:38:35.000 See if you could find what Nero did.

01:38:38.000 You know, that was also like Hitler. 0.91

01:38:40.000 Hitler burned the Reichstag.

01:38:42.000 That was a false flag too.

01:38:45.000 The Gulf of Tonkin one was a crazy one because that was, what was that, 67, 68 or something?

01:38:52.000 So we had already been in Vietnam for years at that point.

01:38:54.000 No, no.

01:38:55.000 That was the...

01:38:59.000 Right.

01:38:59.000 But it wasn't like we were full scale soldiers invading Vietnam.

01:39:03.000 Right.

01:39:03.000 Is this a precursor to like Tet Offensive or something?

01:39:07.000 I don't know, but this was the incident that dragged us in. 0.54

01:39:11.000 Burning Rome, burning Christians. 1.00

01:39:13.000 Year 64.

01:39:16.000 During the Principate of Nero, the night between July 18 and 19, a fire broke out in Rome within nine days, destroyed or badly damaged a substantial part of the city, leaving many dead or homeless.

01:39:27.000 Rumors circulated the fire had been set by Nero, who, it was claimed, sought to divert blame from himself by holding responsible a new sect of aggressively proselytizing Jews known as Christians.

01:39:39.000 Wow.

01:39:40.000 Most recent scholarship has rejected the popular view of Nero as an arsonist who fiddled while Rome burned, in quotes.

01:39:48.000 Largely ignored, however, has been the question of whether or not the Christians generally regarded as innocent scapegoats of Nero might in fact have played some role in the fire.

01:39:59.000 There's controversy.

01:40:01.000 The chapter considers the problematic nature of Christianity and Rome and Roman attitudes towards Christians in the first century CE and suggests, based on this evidence, that Christian involvement is not out of the question.

01:40:12.000 Not out of the question, but the narrative has always been that Nero did it to divert attention.

01:40:17.000 But the point is, it's like, look, they tried to do that with Operation Northwoods.

01:40:17.000 Yeah.

01:40:21.000 It's one of the things that Kennedy vetoed.

01:40:23.000 The Joint Chiefs of Staff signed off on an operation to do a false flag event where they were going to blow up a drone jetliner, blame it on Cuba, and they were going to arm Cuban friendlies and attack Guantanamo Bay.

01:40:36.000 And they were doing this so that they could drag us into a war with Cuba.

01:40:40.000 And Kennedy vetoed it.

01:40:42.000 But it was signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

01:40:44.000 Right.

01:40:44.000 They're like, Sounds good.

01:40:46.000 Right.

01:40:48.000 I mean, is this what the Bay of Pigs is?

01:40:51.000 No, the Bay of Pigs is, the problem with the Bay of Pigs was that they planned it without Kennedy knowing.

01:41:00.000 The men were already there.

01:41:01.000 And then they had air support, and that was part of their mission, and then Kennedy denied air support.

01:41:01.000 Yeah.

01:41:08.000 And then the men on the ground got slaughtered.

01:41:11.000 And so they, my friend Evan, who was a ranger, he believes it's very possible that some of the people involved in that might have been involved in the assassination of Kennedy.

01:41:23.000 Because they had a huge grudge, and these were, you know, hardened assassins.

01:41:27.000 Are you, yeah, if that's something that you'd go and mine people out of that operation.

01:41:33.000 There was a lot of people that hated Kennedy after that.

01:41:35.000 Yeah.

01:41:35.000 A lot of people.

01:41:36.000 We don't think about it now because we think of Kennedy as like being loved, but there was people that celebrated when he got murdered.

01:41:45.000 Gee.

01:41:46.000 Yeah.

01:41:47.000 That I can't imagine.

01:41:50.000 Yeah.

01:41:51.000 Yeah.

01:41:51.000 Well, it's like today.

01:41:53.000 Like if Trump got murdered, there's people that would celebrate.

01:41:56.000 You know, or if Kamala Harris had gotten murdered on the campaign trail, there's people that would celebrate. 0.82

01:42:00.000 There's gross people on both sides of the aisle.

01:42:04.000 It is, I mean, it's a sign that something's not good when we're celebrating just death.

01:42:11.000 No.

01:42:11.000 I feel like...

01:42:17.000 If that's the only solution is to kill people. 1.00

01:42:21.000 You know? 1.00

01:42:23.000 Or if you don't like how the results turned out, you do everything you can to destroy that person.

01:42:30.000 which I think the most interesting version of that is happening right now in New York City.

01:42:34.000 That Mondani guy who's essentially... 1.00

01:42:50.000 Okay.

01:42:50.000 But like, but the people elected him.

01:42:52.000 He won the Democratic primary, and he's like 44% ahead of everyone else in the process.

01:42:58.000 So there's still, sorry, you gotta kind of fill me in.

01:43:01.000 So the actual election is not until November, right?

01:43:04.000 So they have the primary first.

01:43:05.000 Mandani won, and he won over Andrew Cuomo, who used to be the governor of the state.

01:43:11.000 And everybody thought he was going to win. 1.00

01:43:13.000 And then people are like, holy shit, this communist guy is going to be the fucking mayor of New York City. 1.00

01:43:13.000 Right. 1.00

01:43:19.000 Okay.

01:43:19.000 And he's promising to jack up taxes, and he's promising to have, like, city funded grocery stores and a lot of other communist ideas.

01:43:28.000 So both the right and the left are Like, we got to get this guy out of here.

01:43:32.000 There's no way.

01:43:33.000 But it's like, if you believe in the democratic process, like, this is what the people wanted.

01:43:39.000 Right.

01:43:39.000 Let's find out if it works.

01:43:40.000 So then we'll find out if it sucks, if it makes New York City even worse.

01:43:44.000 Well, then, in a few years, you get to vote again. 0.75

01:43:47.000 Yeah, how long is the, how long is mayorship?

01:43:51.000 I think it's four years.

01:43:52.000 Four years.

01:43:53.000 Is it a four year term for mayor of New York City?

01:43:53.000 Right?

01:43:55.000 It has to be, right?

01:43:56.000 Because in two years, you're basically just using the time to campaign for your reelection.

01:44:01.000 Yeah.

01:44:01.000 Because you'd probably by the time you got in there, it's like 24 months later, you've got to do it again.

01:44:05.000 Right.

01:44:06.000 You're like, ugh.

01:44:07.000 So what are the two sides doing to bring him down?

01:44:14.000 Talk about getting him out of the country.

01:44:16.000 There's people that are talking about, is there a way to expel him from the country?

01:44:21.000 To revoke his citizenship?

01:44:23.000 Yeah, there's talk of that.

01:44:25.000 Yeah.

01:44:26.000 People are trying to figure out any way to get rid of this guy.

01:44:28.000 He is a citizen.

01:44:30.000 But he wasn't born in America, which freaks people out.

01:44:30.000 Of course.

01:44:34.000 He's from Uganda.

01:44:34.000 He's a Muslim.

01:44:35.000 That's where he's from.

01:44:37.000 He's only been in America for a certain amount of years.

01:44:39.000 And he's only been a citizen, I think, for seven or eight years, something like that.

01:44:44.000 And he won, you know?

01:44:45.000 Like, if you believe me in this thing, like that's what people voted for, and you got to do better.

01:44:51.000 That's the, that's what the folks want.

01:44:55.000 Yeah, well, the thing is, there's a lot of people that live in New York City, that live in, you know, any city really, that don't feel like their needs are being met by the government.

01:45:04.000 And they don't feel like the government has their best interests.

01:45:04.000 Right.

01:45:07.000 And if some guy comes along with some radical ideas that he says are the solution, well, if the people believe him and it's not true, you've done a terrible job.

01:45:17.000 You've done a terrible job of both distributing information and taking care of these people because they're looking for any kind of a solution.

01:45:24.000 Right.

01:45:24.000 Even a solution that might wind up causing a bunch of corporations to leave the city and a bunch of money to leave the city and a bunch of jobs to leave the city.

01:45:34.000 Yeah.

01:45:34.000 Things are desperate, right?

01:45:42.000 What, the politicians really controlled by like three main things, like special interests, donor class and multinational corporations.

01:45:54.000 So anybody who looks like they're disentangled from any of those things is looking pretty appealing.

01:46:00.000 Exactly.

01:46:01.000 Exactly.

01:46:01.000 That's why he's way ahead.

01:46:03.000 He's ahead by 44%.

01:46:05.000 Everybody else has like 12%, 20%.

01:46:08.000 I think the highest one other than him in the most recent polling was Cuomo, who's still running somehow or another.

01:46:14.000 I don't know how he's doing it.

01:46:15.000 And it's like, is he an independent?

01:46:17.000 Like, how is Cuomo running?

01:46:18.000 Is that what it is?

01:46:19.000 Yeah.

01:46:20.000 So he's running as an independent because he couldn't win the Democratic primary.

01:46:23.000 Yeah.

01:46:23.000 But he's still way behind this guy.

01:46:25.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:46:28.000 According to polls, but the problem with polls is of course who the fuck answers polls? 0.99

01:46:31.000 Not you. 0.99

01:46:32.000 No, not me.

01:46:33.000 I think polls are just made so that news people have something to talk about.

01:46:37.000 Well, they probably are.

01:46:41.000 They probably go to the poll center and they say, run this poll because I gotta have something to talk about on Wednesday.

01:46:48.000 Yeah.

01:46:49.000 You could rig them, right?

01:46:50.000 So you could rig them, like say, if you went to a specific group of people that you knew leaned right.

01:46:57.000 and you started asking them questions on things or a specific group of people, a specific part of the city that you knew was more progressive, you would go there if you wanted to rig polls and then you push that narrative out.

01:47:08.000 This is how the people feel.

01:47:09.000 It's like, okay, but who's answering?

01:47:11.000 A very small percentage and mostly dopes. 0.99

01:47:14.000 Mostly dopes are answering polls.

01:47:15.000 Sorry if you answer polls, but most of the people have nothing else to say.

01:47:19.000 Because if you call me, I've never met anybody who's answered a poll.

01:47:22.000 Bingo.

01:47:22.000 I met a lot of folks.

01:47:23.000 You met a lot of folks.

01:47:24.000 Exactly.

01:47:25.000 You ever met anyone who answered a poll?

01:47:26.000 No, and the presidential polls are the weird ones because sometimes they're wildly wrong.

01:47:31.000 And yet somebody got paid to make those polls.

01:47:36.000 I think it's the news.

01:47:37.000 I think the news is an incredibly lucrative business.

01:47:41.000 It's an entertainment business.

01:47:44.000 There's not news every day.

01:47:46.000 There's nothing to...

01:47:50.000 Yeah.

01:47:52.000 They're making up news. 0.99

01:47:54.000 They should call it the old because it's always the same same shit happening, man. 0.98

01:47:58.000 Like, it's not even Yeah. 0.97

01:48:01.000 It doesn't matter where you get it either.

01:48:05.000 It's also a lot, I mean, CNN tried to separate themselves from that when they realized it was financially kind of devastating to the company to have really bad editorial comments, which is what they did.

01:48:17.000 That's why they got rid of all their head newscasters. 0.99

01:48:20.000 Because everybody was terrible and everybody hated them.

01:48:22.000 So they just got rid of most of them.

01:48:24.000 Right.

01:48:25.000 And they tried to go objective with the news.

01:48:27.000 But the problem is like that way people aren't outraged.

01:48:30.000 And the only way people are going to pay attention now, because you spoiled them.

01:48:33.000 You gave them candy.

01:48:34.000 And now you can't give them filet mignon. 1.00

01:48:36.000 They're like, this is bullshit. 1.00

01:48:37.000 I want cheetos. 1.00

01:48:38.000 and I want snacks.

01:48:40.000 Right.

01:48:40.000 Like, you've ruined them and you gave them this for decades.

01:48:44.000 And so now, if you want your ratings, you have to give them outrage.

01:48:48.000 You have to have a bunch of people yelling at each other on TV so they pay attention.

01:48:52.000 that and like the I feel like the most like colorful people that they would have had on their things have gone indie now you know like like Tucker Carlson has his his this podcast and like, um, let's see.

01:49:10.000 Candace Owens was with like Daily Wire and now she's like got, she's got her own.

01:49:18.000 And then there's smaller ones.

01:49:20.000 You got like breaking points is one.

01:49:26.000 You know, the real problem is the left ones never succeed once they're fired.

01:49:31.000 The people that leave CNN, they're always like dismissed.

01:49:35.000 Well, the talent, I mean, if you're a man.

01:49:37.000 You have to be talented to do that, to sit there and look at a camera and just talk for like hours about, you've got to be really talented.

01:49:45.000 So you have to be really dedicated.

01:49:47.000 And you have to understand how people are receiving what you're saying too.

01:49:51.000 And the problem with like a CNN type job is that you're being told what to do, you show up, you read the news as written by these people, you have a teleprompter.

01:50:03.000 You really can't stray very far from the narrative and you're allowed to elaborate inside the narrative as long as it fits with what CNN is trying to promote.

01:50:15.000 And as soon as you deviate from that, you're cooked, you're gone.

01:50:19.000 Yeah, so then there's really no, there's not much career for you at all.

01:50:24.000 Yeah, because once you leave, everybody knows you're a propagandist.

01:50:27.000 Like, no one's ever going to really truly believe in you.

01:50:30.000 And you weren't coming up with anything yourself.

01:50:32.000 It was all fed to you.

01:50:33.000 Exactly.

01:50:33.000 He was drawn.

01:50:34.000 Exactly.

01:50:35.000 And then we also watched as you did elaborate on your own about whatever you thought about the narrative. 0.98

01:50:42.000 You're a dope. 0.98

01:50:44.000 You're a dope that's only on television because they put you there. 1.00

01:50:46.000 You're not, you're not like, you didn't rise through the ranks. 0.92

01:50:49.000 Like, this is one of the most interesting people I've ever heard talk on television.

01:50:52.000 Like, no, this is not, this is not that at all.

01:50:55.000 You're not sincere.

01:50:57.000 You're, you're, you know, what people like is authenticity.

01:51:01.000 You know, you want to know that someone is actually telling you what they think.

01:51:04.000 And you don't get any of that from them.

01:51:05.000 As soon as you don't get that from people, you never want to listen.

01:51:08.000 Whether you believe Tucker Carlson or not, he's being authentic.

01:51:12.000 Like what he's saying, he believes.

01:51:15.000 Right.

01:51:15.000 This is who he is.

01:51:16.000 And that's why he works.

01:51:17.000 That's why it works outside of the news.

01:51:21.000 Yeah, those folks, all these folks who do.

01:51:23.000 I think even Bill O'Reilly, after he got kicked out, you know, from podcasts, he has, he's got his podcast and stuff.

01:51:34.000 If they, they really believe their stuff, man.

01:51:39.000 Yeah, whether they're right or wrong.

01:51:41.000 Yeah.

01:51:42.000 Well, it's not about that.

01:51:43.000 I feel like the public has to understand that at the end of the day, these guys are...

01:51:53.000 These guys are entertainers.

01:51:54.000 These guys are telling you stuff.

01:51:58.000 They're feeding it to you.

01:51:59.000 And you got to take things with a big ass grain of salt because this stuff is these are entertainers.

01:52:05.000 Well, there's definitely that aspect of it.

01:52:07.000 And if you're not entertaining, you're going to get removed from your job and you're going to get replaced by someone who's better at your job.

01:52:12.000 Yeah.

01:52:13.000 Or hotter.

01:52:16.000 You know?

01:52:17.000 Someone who's got a nice rack and a short skirt and who's really good at talking. 0.59

01:52:22.000 Like, wow.

01:52:23.000 I really just want to watch her talk.

01:52:25.000 That's, I guess, that's for the cable folks or something.

01:52:28.000 Yeah, I mean, it's part of the gig, Right? 0.99

01:52:30.000 Like, how many of those ladies on Fox News just look hot as the sun while they're telling you whatever the fuck they're supposed to be telling you? 1.00

01:52:38.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:52:41.000 It's a special kind of hot too.

01:52:43.000 That like ice queen hot. 0.91

01:52:44.000 That's a that republican like hard-nosed hot.

01:52:47.000 I don't get it.

01:52:50.000 I don't get it, man.

01:52:53.000 I don't get it.

01:52:53.000 You'd.

01:52:57.000 That's the that's the cheapest. 0.67

01:52:59.000 That's the cheapest thing they can pull over on the on the on the exhibitions is to have is to have sex appeal. 0.97

01:53:05.000 Yeah, but they've always got I mean, that's how they sell cars.

01:53:08.000 That's how they sell everything. 0.98

01:53:09.000 People use that for everything because we're dumb. 0.97

01:53:13.000 I'm optimistic. 0.98

01:53:15.000 I think we're going to wake up and say, I don't care what the hot lady on Fox says.

01:53:22.000 They're murdering people.

01:53:25.000 I'm optimistic too.

01:53:26.000 And I think you're right.

01:53:28.000 I think we are doing that right now.

01:53:30.000 I think, believe it or not, your songs are a part of that.

01:53:34.000 Whatever percentage.

01:53:38.000 you reach that's it's not zero there's there's people that you reach like that United Health how many views did that get all told i don't know.

01:53:47.000 It has to be millions.

01:53:48.000 It got a lot of loads.

01:53:49.000 Millions and millions and millions.

01:53:50.000 I know I sent it to a lot of people.

01:53:53.000 The tunes get they get passed around.

01:53:55.000 Some of them get passed around.

01:53:56.000 Did I repost that?

01:53:57.000 I repost it, right?

01:53:59.000 Okay.

01:53:59.000 Yeah.

01:54:00.000 If I repost it, I can find out how many people just saw the one that I repost.

01:54:05.000 It'll be a lot.

01:54:06.000 It resonates, man.

01:54:08.000 It's like people are...

01:54:11.000 When you shared the list, that one blew up too.

01:54:14.000 Yeah, that was a good one too.

01:54:17.000 How long ago was that?

01:54:18.000 The United Health one?

01:54:20.000 That was in December.

01:54:21.000 What is it, Jimmy?

01:54:22.000 You posted it eight months ago.

01:54:24.000 Eight months ago.

01:54:25.000 It's going to take a while because I'm a chatty Kathy.

01:54:28.000 It was December 15th, 2024.

01:54:31.000 Oh, that's not that long ago.

01:54:32.000 Okay, so here's Fetterman.

01:54:34.000 That's around that time.

01:54:36.000 Let me find it.

01:54:37.000 There ain't no you. 1.00

01:54:40.000 Come on, cock-sucker. 1.00

01:54:42.000 Where are you? 1.00

01:54:45.000 There's no shortage of stuff to make tunes on.

01:54:50.000 How do you decide what to make tunes on?

01:54:53.000 Do you just sit and when something like resonates with you and pisses you off?

01:54:57.000 Yeah, when something is like, you know, gee, gee, I got something I could say about that.

01:55:09.000 Then that's when you do it too.

01:55:15.000 I know it's on here.

01:55:17.000 How would I search for it?

01:55:20.000 I don't think you can.

01:55:21.000 Because you're trying to see the views.

01:55:22.000 You just found it.

01:55:24.000 Here we go.

01:55:25.000 Sorry.

01:55:25.000 Okay.

01:55:26.000 View insights.

01:55:29.000 6,742,803 views.

01:55:36.000 The watch time is three years, 104 days, 17 hours, 13 minutes and 8 seconds.

01:55:45.000 Folks got too much time on their hands.

01:55:47.000 There's a lot of people on the toilet right now, bro.

01:55:50.000 They need something to listen to.

01:55:53.000 You ever go to the toilet without your phone?

01:55:55.000 It's weird.

01:55:56.000 You just sit there like, wow, I'm alone with my phone.

01:55:58.000 It's like a spacewalk without oxygen.

01:56:01.000 No one knows how to do it anymore.

01:56:03.000 Yeah, it's...

01:56:08.000 But the thing is like that, the six million plus people that heard that, like that, that affects the narrative.

01:56:14.000 And then, you know, the list one, that affects the narrative.

01:56:16.000 And this one that you did on philanthropy, that affects the narrative.

01:56:20.000 There's – everyone's like throwing their coins into this big pile and trying to figure this out.

01:56:27.000 And more so now than I think has ever happened at any time in human history.

01:56:31.000 There's more discussion.

01:56:33.000 It's just – we're so upset that it's not fixed.

01:56:37.000 And it's on its way in the right direction, I think.

01:56:44.000 it's just not satisfying pace in which progress is happening.

01:56:50.000 Everybody can get on now too.

01:56:52.000 I mean, like that's, it's just like I prop up my iPhone and like play a tune.

01:57:00.000 Everyone can just like get in front of their face and like get it out there, you know?

01:57:06.000 Yeah, yeah, anyone can now, which is great.

01:57:10.000 I mean, it allows guys like you to just all of a sudden have a following.

01:57:14.000 You know, all you have to do is have some talent, some talent, some creativity, some hard work, and bam, there you go.

01:57:21.000 It's kinda cool.

01:57:23.000 I mean, that's the beautiful side of social media.

01:57:25.000 There's no, there's no rules as far as, especially in the music industry and stuff, there's no rules anymore.

01:57:25.000 It's good.

01:57:31.000 Anyone who tells you that they know what to do or that they know what they're doing, they're so full of shit, dog. 1.00

01:57:36.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:57:37.000 Nobody knows what they're doing.

01:57:38.000 doing yeah and like we want we want people to know because we want to ask like what could i do to you know to have to be successful or whatever then nobody knows no nobody knows and there's no gatekeepers or anything like that all you have to do is want to play music all you have to do is yeah and then go and do it on your phone and see if anyone likes you And if they like you, you're, you know, that's good.

01:57:38.000 Yeah.

01:58:04.000 Then everybody will come to you and say, I know how to make this bigger.

01:58:04.000 Yeah.

01:58:07.000 And they don't know what they're talking about either.

01:58:10.000 No, generally they're vampires.

01:58:12.000 And they're trying to take a piece.

01:58:14.000 Yeah.

01:58:15.000 They're trying to clamp on to you.

01:58:16.000 you.

01:58:17.000 Oh, they they come out of the woodwork.

01:58:20.000 Have you had people offer you a bunch of money?

01:58:22.000 Not a bunch, but they'll offer you a little for a lot, you know?

01:58:27.000 A little for a lot.

01:58:28.000 Yeah.

01:58:28.000 They want your future, right?

01:58:29.000 Yeah.

01:58:30.000 They'll go, I would, you know, here's, I mean, there are all sorts of folks in the early days coming through labels and stuff going, here's, we'll give you ten grand for like thirty songs or something like that.

01:58:44.000 It's like, this is insulting.

01:58:46.000 Yeah.

01:58:46.000 I don't want any of this.

01:58:49.000 I don't need any of this.

01:58:50.000 Oliver Anthony was going through that right after Richman from Richmond.

01:58:53.000 Right.

01:58:54.000 Richmond, North of Richmond, the song came out.

01:58:57.000 Like they just came after him with all this money.

01:58:59.000 Oh, they will. 1.00

01:59:00.000 All this ass, all this fucking promises. 1.00

01:59:03.000 They will, all this money. 1.00

01:59:04.000 They give you so much upfront and you don't even, like if you don't know, it's just a big ass loan that you're never going to recoup and then you're not even, you're not living off your own do at that point.

01:59:14.000 You're just living off borrowed money like everyone else in the States.

01:59:17.000 And you're attached to them forever.

01:59:19.000 Yeah.

01:59:20.000 You're attached to them forever.

01:59:21.000 They just, they own your masters, you'll never see it back.

01:59:24.000 I mean, I, I signed with a label when I was like 22. 0.97

01:59:27.000 I've been through all that crap.

01:59:29.000 How old are you now? 0.99

01:59:31.000 I'm 47.

01:59:32.000 No.

01:59:32.000 Are you really?

01:59:33.000 No, I'm going to be 33 this year.

01:59:33.000 Great.

01:59:35.000 But I believed you.

01:59:38.000 I was like, man, kids living good.

01:59:40.000 No.

01:59:42.000 No, I'm just joshing you.

01:59:45.000 But, you know, this is a new time where you really can become hugely successful and get a gigantic following with no one attached to you.

01:59:54.000 Yeah.

01:59:55.000 Where you don't have to have all those people put.

01:59:58.000 They're not going to help you.

01:59:59.000 No, they don't.

02:00:00.000 Too many cooks in the kitchen. 1.00

02:00:02.000 Way too many people.

02:00:03.000 And too many people eating at the dinner plate.

02:00:06.000 And dude, when anybody gives you, like if label comes in, let's say Chris took., let's say he took the deal, you know, or whatever, if Oliver Anthony took the big deal, then he's got all these people up there in the office with tax ride off MacBooks telling him what to do with his music because they open their wallet and they're going to have to give you notes.

02:00:28.000 They're entitled to give you their opinion at that point and you wouldn't be able to just do whatever the hell he wants to do.

02:00:35.000 Yeah.

02:00:36.000 You know?

02:00:36.000 And I think it's so important for artists to be able to do whatever the hell they want to do because that's the only way they can be themselves.

02:00:41.000 Exactly.

02:00:42.000 And then that's the only way you can be successful is to completely be yourself at all times, 100%.

02:00:47.000 Nothing but yourself.

02:00:48.000 And you see that one thing that does happen when people do take the money is that part goes away.

02:00:53.000 Because even though you think you're kind of sort of being yourself, everybody knows you're not totally.

02:00:59.000 You're not totally being yourself anymore.

02:01:02.000 And dough will change your life in a way that you might not be ready for or something.

02:01:09.000 You're going to think, I got this dough.

02:01:12.000 Now I can leave this town I don't like.

02:01:15.000 I can get the house that I was wanting when it was was really it was it was being in that town and kind of having things difficult pressures around you and stuff that was creating these diamonds that was putting you in this situation to make good art and stuff like that.

02:01:31.000 Yeah.

02:01:32.000 And you take away all your discomfort and then realize you can't make art and you're not happy. 0.97

02:01:41.000 And then you start getting nostalgic about the good old days when you were broke and shit like that. 0.96

02:01:45.000 It's just, it's better. 0.87

02:01:48.000 It's better to just take only what you need.

02:01:51.000 Well, then there's also the problem once you become successful of worrying about not being successful anymore.

02:01:58.000 about maintaining it.

02:01:59.000 That's terrifying.

02:02:00.000 Sure.

02:02:00.000 I gotta keep this going.

02:02:01.000 Like, I can't, I can't fall off.

02:02:04.000 But if you can't be less successful, I can't, I used to be poor and now I've got money.

02:02:10.000 I gotta make sure this doesn't go away.

02:02:12.000 It's how you measure your thoughts and you measure, you're measured in what you say.

02:02:17.000 No, no.

02:02:19.000 Your measure of success is like, how much can I be myself and be happy that way?

02:02:27.000 If you can still be 100% yourself all the way to the end of the line, then that's your success.

02:02:33.000 Yeah.

02:02:34.000 But that's a smart way of looking at things.

02:02:36.000 Most people look at things in terms of like, what is the way that's the most profitable?

02:02:41.000 So they'll avoid certain controversies.

02:02:44.000 But we know that the, like, we know even from talking about like.

02:02:47.000 people whose business, whose art is money.

02:02:50.000 It creates misery to be chasing the bank account, to constantly have the dough.

02:02:56.000 You know, like you create a wake of you create bad art, right? 0.99

02:03:01.000 Your albums start to suck.

02:03:04.000 You might be getting in bigger and bigger places and stuff like that. 0.98

02:03:07.000 But yeah, it's gonna it's gonna fall off and when it does, you know, then then then you have like some existential problems to deal with at that point.

02:03:18.000 Well, there's always the devil's bargain, right? 0.99

02:03:21.000 That fucking story is as old as time. 0.99

02:03:24.000 That's the Robert Johnson story, right? 1.00

02:03:27.000 They thought he sold his soul.

02:03:29.000 Yeah.

02:03:30.000 Van Halen definitely sold his soul to the devil.

02:03:32.000 You think so?

02:03:34.000 No.

02:03:35.000 I don't look like Eddie Van Halen, dude.

02:03:38.000 What?

02:03:39.000 You look a little like Eddie Van Halen. 0.99

02:03:40.000 I fucking love Eddie Van Halen. 0.98

02:03:41.000 Yeah, he's the man. 0.99

02:03:42.000 Oh my God.

02:03:43.000 He was the man.

02:03:43.000 He's the Robert Johnson of the late 70s.

02:03:46.000 Angus Young sold his soul.

02:03:48.000 Isn't it funny though that story was like always around the story of selling your soul for success?

02:03:55.000 Yeah.

02:03:56.000 It's an interesting metaphor.

02:03:59.000 That doesn't but it doesn't make any sense as far as like Robert John is like he sold his soul his soul, I guess, so he could play and then not be successful in his lifetime and die poor.

02:04:09.000 And then we would all find him later.

02:04:12.000 I think the thought was that he was so much better than everyone else.

02:04:15.000 There's no way he could have gone that far ahead without some help.

02:04:20.000 Right.

02:04:20.000 He's spooky good.

02:04:21.000 Yeah.

02:04:22.000 He's spooky good.

02:04:22.000 He's working in the future.

02:04:24.000 But that's always, there's always guys like that.

02:04:26.000 Like Hendrix.

02:04:26.000 If anyone sold their soul, it's Hendrix.

02:04:28.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:04:29.000 Not that I think he did, but it's like when that guy came around, everyone was like, What the fuck is going on? 0.90

02:04:34.000 Like in every generation, there's a player, man. 0.93

02:04:36.000 Yeah.

02:04:37.000 And it, I mean, maybe you could trace the line.

02:04:39.000 Johnson, Hendrix, that's skipping a few.

02:04:42.000 But to Hendrix, A. Van Halen, and then you've got like Steve Vai and Joe Satriani and like Stevie Rayvon.

02:04:50.000 These virtuosos.

02:04:51.000 Stevie Rayvon, so important to Texas too, Stevie.

02:04:56.000 We bought a photo of him on stage at our club because, you know, I own this place that used to be a theater that he performed at.

02:05:04.000 And there's a photo of him on stage in 1983.

02:05:04.000 Okay.

02:05:08.000 So as you're walking to the stage, there's a photo of Stevie Rayvon on stage in his back.

02:05:13.000 He's so cool.

02:05:13.000 I don't know if you've seen him at like Austin City Limits slinging his guitar behind his back.

02:05:18.000 Oh, he's a cool one.

02:05:19.000 Playing with his teeth, he's got all his scarfs and stuff.

02:05:21.000 I almost got to drive him once when I was driving limo, but he wouldn't take limo.

02:05:26.000 What did he want?

02:05:27.000 I drove Jeff back.

02:05:28.000 He wouldn't take limo.

02:05:30.000 He only took cabs.

02:05:31.000 Okay.

02:05:32.000 They'd get him a limo and he's like, eh, I'm getting a cab.

02:05:35.000 He'd hop in a cab and talk to the cab driver.

02:05:35.000 Okay.

02:05:37.000 He didn't want to be mister Fancy in a fucking limo. 0.99

02:05:40.000 And that's cool. 0.99

02:05:40.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:05:41.000 The souls of the earth, dude.

02:05:43.000 I was pissed though. 1.00

02:05:43.000 It's like, fuck. 1.00

02:05:45.000 I almost got to drive Steve Rayvon. 1.00

02:05:49.000 That's one of those talents every generation. 0.99

02:05:52.000 But it also shows you how dumb limo drivers are. 1.00

02:05:58.000 Like you let a fucking psycho like me, a 21-year-old maniac, drive one of the greatest guitars of all time. 1.00

02:06:04.000 Like I was a bad driver. 1.00

02:06:06.000 Like I was a reckless kid.

02:06:07.000 Like all of a sudden I had this job driving limousines because I wore a suit.

02:06:11.000 Like you're gonna trust me?

02:06:12.000 Why?

02:06:13.000 Steve Rayvon.

02:06:14.000 I mean, safer than the helicopter pilots and stuff.

02:06:18.000 In the end, yes.

02:06:18.000 No, I'm just kidding.

02:06:20.000 I mean, I was a good driver when I was driving limousines.

02:06:21.000 That's what you mean.

02:06:22.000 It's kind of crazy.

02:06:23.000 Thank you.

02:06:24.000 But it is kind of crazy that they let a 21-year-old me just at the helm of a car with one of the greatest musicians of all time in the back seat.

02:06:32.000 It's always, it's fun to think back on that.

02:06:36.000 Like when I was, when I was 18, I was.

02:06:39.000 I did a radio program for KDYN Real Country Radio every Saturday morning.

02:06:45.000 It was called Dial a Deal where people call in.

02:06:48.000 It was basically like an on-air Craigslist, you know?

02:06:51.000 But I was alone at the station after football games.

02:06:54.000 You know, football game would be like Friday night, go to bed all beat up, wake up at like 5 am, go into the station, record the obituaries real quick, because those are going to run on Saturday.

02:07:08.000 and then do like a, you know, an on-air Craigslist radio program, and you're just like 17 years old with the entire radio station to yourself.

02:07:16.000 Wow. 0.99

02:07:17.000 I was a total dumbass, too. 0.99

02:07:19.000 I could have been like, anyway, here's Grand Funk Railroad, you know. 0.98

02:07:22.000 Did you have a specific list of things that you were supposed to play?

02:07:26.000 The list was like programmed in, and then you had to record weather.

02:07:31.000 So you would pull up the National Weather Service on the screen, and then you would record yourself doing the weather, saying, you know, winds are going to be southeast, southeast, northeast.

02:07:43.000 northwest out at 15 miles an hour or whatever you do the obituaries but um no you didn't actually dj it was just like you would hit the space bar music would start playing be like, okay folks, if you can't tell by the music, I'll go ahead and tell you myself it's time to dial a deal.

02:07:59.000 Remember, our numbers up here are 667 4567 or toll free at 888 325 KTYN.

02:08:06.000 That's 888 888 325 KTYN.

02:08:08.000 Remember, no commercial real estate advertisement.

02:08:10.000 Please limit your calls to once per program.

02:08:13.000 And keep in mind, I can't always keep track of these numbers up here myself.

02:08:16.000 So if you remember them on your end, you're doing me and you a favor.

02:08:20.000 Let's get back to the dialing and a dealing.

02:08:22.000 And then people would call in and they'd be like, I'm looking for my dog.

02:08:27.000 And I'd be like, somebody find that dog.

02:08:30.000 And then, you know, list off their number.

02:08:32.000 Or did you ever play any of your songs?

02:08:36.000 No.

02:08:37.000 No, it was a classic country radio station.

02:08:39.000 So I'm up there listening to like Willie, Wayland, Hank Sr., Hank Jr.

02:08:46.000 And then also they were playing, they were playing like some mod, like I remember Brad Paisley was being played on air and he just shredded, but no, I couldn't.

02:08:54.000 I couldn't.

02:08:55.000 I was in a grunge band at the time.

02:08:57.000 I couldn't play.

02:08:57.000 Wait, you really?

02:08:58.000 Yeah.

02:08:59.000 I think that, yeah.

02:09:01.000 I couldn't put Once I printed out the track listing for the record that I had made, I would make CD records and sell them at school like five bucks a pock.

02:09:12.000 I made more money selling records in high school than I ever did as an adult.

02:09:17.000 I printed out all the song lists.

02:09:19.000 Anyway, the album was called Mom I'm Gay.

02:09:22.000 And all the, I left a bunch of them like at the radio station.

02:09:28.000 I remember the guy who was running it, he came to me and he was like, Did you print these out?

02:09:32.000 Are these yours?

02:09:33.000 And it was just kind of awkward after that.

02:09:38.000 A small town in Arkansas.

02:09:41.000 That's funny.

02:09:41.000 Far out.

02:09:43.000 But, you know, folks will let you a young person do all kinds of stuff.

02:09:52.000 I guess they see an aptitude in you.

02:09:54.000 They trust you.

02:09:55.000 So they let you drive a limo.

02:09:57.000 I think they just needed a job.

02:09:59.000 They needed someone to do the job.

02:10:00.000 It's that simple.

02:10:01.000 And most people would only temporarily keep that job and they would leave.

02:10:06.000 Right.

02:10:07.000 High turnover.

02:10:08.000 Yeah.

02:10:09.000 There's high turnover at the radio station because we weren't making any dough.

02:10:12.000 Right.

02:10:13.000 The day.

02:10:13.000 You know?

02:10:14.000 What year was this?

02:10:15.000 This was in 1927.

02:10:21.000 2010.

02:10:23.000 2011.

02:10:24.000 I knew a lot of radio when I was young and doing the road.

02:10:28.000 So I'd do like morning radio shows in the middle of nowhere.

02:10:31.000 Yeah.

02:10:32.000 And it was the only way to promote things.

02:10:33.000 Like say if you're going to do some gig in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, like you get on local radio, you tell everybody drive time radio.

02:10:41.000 So you're on the air at like 6.30 in the morning.

02:10:43.000 Yeah.

02:10:44.000 and let everybody know you're going.

02:10:46.000 Radio was a weird thing, man, because it was like a local connection and all that stuff is kind of gone now.

02:10:53.000 You know, local connection used to be fun.

02:10:56.000 There was something about listening to the local radio in the morning when you're on your way to work that was kind of cool.

02:11:02.000 it was great and you knew that most of your friends were listening to they had a program And it was just like a call out to Burns Drug, Burns Pharmacy or whatever, and then you'd hear the sound of a coffee cup.

02:11:29.000 The obituaries ran, you'd listen to them, you'd be like, Oh, Janine died. 0.99

02:11:33.000 Damn it. 0.99

02:11:34.000 We had to go to the memorial. 0.99

02:11:37.000 They would tell what the hillbillys, like the mascot was the hillbillys, and like how high school football was doing and stuff like that.

02:11:44.000 I wonder if anybody's creating that in podcastscasts.

02:11:47.000 I wonder if there's any good local podcasts that are just about the community that you could like tune in to every day.

02:11:55.000 Like, here's the news, you know?

02:11:57.000 I might have to start one.

02:11:59.000 Why not?

02:12:00.000 Why not?

02:12:00.000 Just local.

02:12:01.000 Anonymous and local.

02:12:02.000 Yeah, just don't even say it's you.

02:12:04.000 Make another name.

02:12:05.000 Yeah.

02:12:06.000 Yeah.

02:12:06.000 This is Bob Butts.

02:12:08.000 And people go, I know who that is.

02:12:11.000 I heard that dude.

02:12:11.000 No, you don't.

02:12:12.000 I'm not who.

02:12:14.000 You're going to do a different voice?

02:12:15.000 I know you, but you don't know me.

02:12:20.000 Are you going to change your voice?

02:12:22.000 You should do that.

02:12:22.000 No, I can't.

02:12:23.000 Do the local news.

02:12:24.000 One of those things like an FBI informant.

02:12:24.000 I got one.

02:12:26.000 We went into the house at 4.30 in the morning.

02:12:29.000 You know?

02:12:30.000 You know what I mean?

02:12:31.000 Those are spooky.

02:12:32.000 When they have those people on TV with their face blacked out.

02:12:34.000 Those vice.

02:12:37.000 Are you sure that the government was involved?

02:12:39.000 100%.

02:12:40.000 They had to know.

02:12:41.000 The information came down from the top.

02:12:44.000 Show their face.

02:12:45.000 Yeah.

02:12:46.000 Show their face. 1.00

02:12:47.000 They're going to get them killed. 1.00

02:12:49.000 Oh, man. 0.95

02:12:53.000 how many do you do a lot of live gigs?

02:12:56.000 How many live gigs do you do?

02:12:56.000 Yeah.

02:12:58.000 Do you do like in a week do you do a bunch?

02:13:00.000 Like how do you do it?

02:13:01.000 No, it's just scheduleded tours, so like tomorrow I'll announce a tour and I think it's like twenty something dates and then I'll go out for two months and play, you know?

02:13:16.000 You just play solo?

02:13:17.000 You bring someone?

02:13:18.000 No, I bring a band.

02:13:18.000 Oh, that's great.

02:13:20.000 A whole band.

02:13:22.000 And then right now I've just been in festival season, so I just played the Newport Folk Fest.

02:13:26.000 Shout, Newport.

02:13:28.000 Do you do any of these songs like United Health?

02:13:30.000 You do all of them?

02:13:30.000 Oh yeah.

02:13:31.000 Yeah.

02:13:31.000 Nice.

02:13:32.000 I got, because I'm just always putting out albums.

02:13:35.000 Like, yeah, like on Friday I'll put out another record too.

02:13:38.000 How many albums do you have so far?

02:13:40.000 Like five or six.

02:13:41.000 You know, it kind of...

02:13:45.000 I wrote like 100 songs in 24 and just like put them all out.

02:13:51.000 And that's what's great about being indie is like you can just you just put out music as soon as you make it.

02:13:57.000 Right.

02:13:58.000 So, but there's a lot of tunes to choose from, right?

02:14:01.000 Usually, you know, on the set I'll play a lot of these, a lot of these topical ones and then bring the band up and then we'll play the other records that I got.

02:14:12.000 But no, I was just at Newport and then we did Edmonton Folk Fest.

02:14:18.000 And here in a little bit, I'll do Farm Aid and Healing Appalachia.

02:14:23.000 Farm Aid was, like last year around this time, John Cougar Mellencamp sent me an email and was like, Jesse, I would like you to play at Farm Aid.

02:14:36.000 But it was from a weird email address and I didn't believe it was him, but it was totally him, just like emailing through his girlfriend's email or something.

02:14:44.000 That's hilarious.

02:14:45.000 And so I showed it to one of my friends he has managed and he's like, I'll vet this out.

02:14:57.000 We'll see if this is legit.

02:14:59.000 And sure enough it was anyway.

02:15:01.000 Go down to Farm Aid and that's like one of the first gigs that I play as this iteration of myself.

02:15:10.000 But got to, you know, got to meet a lot of cool people and get to be friends with a lot of them too.

02:15:16.000 Lucas Nelson is very cool to meet him last year and now I think we'll be doing a tune together here before too long, but nice.

02:15:26.000 Him, I got to meet Charlie over there at Farm Aid.

02:15:30.000 Charlie.

02:15:31.000 Charlie Crockett.

02:15:32.000 Oh, Charlie's awesome.

02:15:33.000 He's super.

02:15:34.000 I really enjoyed talking to him.

02:15:35.000 Yeah, he's great.

02:15:36.000 He was a great guest.

02:15:37.000 What a wild life that guy's lived.

02:15:40.000 That's like, that comes out in his music.

02:15:40.000 Yeah.

02:15:43.000 There's something about like hard living, like living an authentically difficult life that like you hear it in the way they sing.

02:15:51.000 Yeah.

02:15:52.000 You hear it.

02:15:52.000 It's real.

02:15:53.000 Yeah.

02:15:54.000 You know, like there's like an intangible element to certain songs.

02:15:59.000 You know?

02:15:59.000 It's how it be.

02:16:01.000 Yeah.

02:16:02.000 Well, AI's not going to fix that.

02:16:04.000 They're not going to, you know what I mean?

02:16:06.000 Like AI's not going to overcome that.

02:16:08.000 No, I don't know.

02:16:09.000 That's maybe the only thing that AI's not going to overcome.

02:16:12.000 I would be worried.

02:16:14.000 I don't understand why musicians are you know they're they're making like let me i'm gonna send you something jamie i don't know if you've seen this where they made a female indie like emo whatever it would be band lady and it's really good yeah like you listen to it and you're like holy shit i sent it to uh patric uh from uh the black keys patricia carney and uh And he was,

02:16:44.000 his answer was like, pop music is AI has been for a while. 0.58

02:16:47.000 Good thing I suck at drums and make it human. 0.83

02:16:50.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:16:51.000 I'm going to send this to you, Jamie, because you hear it and you're like, oh my God, this could be a fucking giant hit. 0.95

02:16:59.000 And the crazy thing is that AI makes this in seconds. 0.96

02:17:03.000 I mean, in literal seconds.

02:17:03.000 Right.

02:17:06.000 Like, you watch this guy put in the prompts, you watch it make this song, and then you listen to the song and you're like, oh my God.

02:17:15.000 And it's better than most of these songs.

02:17:17.000 Like, listen to this.

02:17:18.000 Create a square avatar of a fictitious female alternative slash indie singer and a name for her.

02:17:34.000 Look at that.

02:17:35.000 Wait, how many seconds was that?

02:17:37.000 That was like about four seconds.

02:17:40.000 Look at that.

02:17:40.000 That's got a bridge.

02:17:41.000 Did you even read any of these or you don't care?

02:17:43.000 I don't care.

02:17:44.000 Put my lyrics in.

02:17:45.000 The lyrics that happen in four seconds.

02:17:47.000 Yes.

02:17:48.000 And then hit create.

02:17:49.000 Let's listen.

02:17:50.000 This is the world premiere.

02:17:52.000 I was paid for, you were scissors, cut me out.

02:18:03.000 She's a good singer. 0.99

02:18:04.000 Good singer.

02:18:10.000 Ooh, that's nice.

02:18:11.000 Really good.

02:18:14.000 Where are we, Rick?

02:18:15.000 Where have we found ourselves?

02:18:17.000 How crazy is this?

02:18:18.000 I mean, look at that.

02:18:20.000 Jule even says, Jule goes, Wow, it's a great melody.

02:18:23.000 Yeah, listen.

02:18:25.000 Artists, everything that can be replaced will be replaced, okay?

02:18:30.000 And pop music was already AI.

02:18:33.000 Patrick has a great point.

02:18:34.000 Yeah.

02:18:35.000 I don't think, I don't think artists, if you, what you're making, I don't think you got nothing to worry about.

02:18:44.000 Well, it's not a worry.

02:18:46.000 It's, I mean, for some people, I'm sure it's a worry., but it's also just a concern that there's a new element of society, that there's creativity is being replaced in at least a form right in front of our eyes.

02:19:02.000 Regardless of what you think about pop music, there are some people that are making pop music as a creative endeavor, and that just did it way better than they do, and did it like that.

02:19:13.000 They'll have to find something else to do.

02:19:15.000 They'll have to listen to something else in JCPenney.

02:19:22.000 Talk.

02:19:22.000 Who still goes to JCPenney?

02:19:24.000 I mean, are they still around?

02:19:25.000 Are they at JCPenneyenney?

02:19:27.000 At where you are?

02:19:27.000 Yeah.

02:19:28.000 I go with JCPenney.

02:19:29.000 I'm not knocking it.

02:19:30.000 I'd go if I needed something.

02:19:32.000 I'm just saying I haven't seen one.

02:19:34.000 You know, I see targets everywhere.

02:19:36.000 I don't see JCPenney anywhere.

02:19:37.000 I'm just the music like that always Yeah, I feel like I'm in a Yeah, I feel like I'm in an academy or Yeah, yeah.

02:19:44.000 You're buying sneakers somewhere.

02:19:44.000 Right.

02:19:46.000 I just need something to go in the background, some non-confrontational music to carry you through.

02:19:54.000 But what you said I think is right.

02:19:56.000 that if you can be replaced you will be replaced.

02:19:58.000 Yeah.

02:19:59.000 All things that can be replaced will be replaced.

02:20:01.000 It's how it has always been as long as man has been around.

02:20:04.000 Everything that can be replaced will be replaced, but there are things that are irreplaceable.

02:20:11.000 I mean, that's kind of in every new iteration of technology we're seeing things get replaced, right?

02:20:18.000 Like when I was a kid, VHS was the newest technology.

02:20:18.000 Right.

02:20:22.000 Like, oh my God, you could watch a movie at home.

02:20:24.000 No one ever thought Blockbuster was ever going to go away.

02:20:24.000 Yeah.

02:20:26.000 Of course there's always going to be a Blockbuster.

02:20:29.000 Every Friday night everybody goes to Blockbuster to find a movie to watch.

02:20:32.000 Gone.

02:20:32.000 Yeah.

02:20:33.000 Doesn't exist anymore.

02:20:34.000 Yeah.

02:20:34.000 Gone like that.

02:20:35.000 Like real quick.

02:20:36.000 Streaming.

02:20:36.000 Internet speeds, pickup.

02:20:38.000 Yeah.

02:20:38.000 It's over.

02:20:39.000 I mean, remember record sales?

02:20:39.000 Yeah.

02:20:41.000 Oh my goodness.

02:20:42.000 They would make millions and millions and millions just from selling records.

02:20:46.000 Now it all went away.

02:20:47.000 Napster came along and some people freaked out and, you know, some people lost a lot of fans because they freaked out too, like trying to stop the tide of inevitability.

02:20:56.000 I mean, didn't.

02:20:58.000 Hepfield and, I mean, Mentalgo was eventually kind of right about what they said about Napster, right?

02:21:06.000 Oh, they knew.

02:21:06.000 Yeah.

02:21:07.000 They knew what was going on.

02:21:08.000 Well, they knew it was going on.

02:21:09.000 It was all going on.

02:21:09.000 Yeah.

02:21:10.000 I mean, everyone kind of understood that this is, if you're logical and objective, you could pretend like, oh, don't worry, we're going to be fine.

02:21:18.000 But if you're logical and objective, you go, oh, this is just the first bullet that landed.

02:21:23.000 Right.

02:21:24.000 this never-ending war with digital information.

02:21:29.000 You're not going to be able to prevent this from happening.

02:21:32.000 I think the record companies have figured out how to make money off of streaming and to make sure that the artist probably doesn't get all that much of it.

02:21:39.000 Well, this is the beautiful thing about being independent.

02:21:42.000 If you're independent, you can make money off of streaming.

02:21:44.000 And if you're independent, you had all of your touring revenue, which is really where it's at.

02:21:49.000 You had all of it.

02:21:50.000 You just make enough to pay for another tour.

02:21:54.000 Well, it depends on how successful you are.

02:21:56.000 But this is what's really crazy about some of the deals that some of these artists are signing where the label gets a giant percentage of their touring money, which didn't used to be the case.

02:22:06.000 It used to be like an artist.

02:22:07.000 They want to find a way to pull it in somehow.

02:22:09.000 They're not selling the records.

02:22:11.000 They get a piece of merch.

02:22:11.000 Exactly.

02:22:13.000 They get a piece of this.

02:22:14.000 They get a piece of everything.

02:22:15.000 They just own you.

02:22:16.000 Yeah.

02:22:16.000 And what value do they provide other than you getting the security of saying, I'm on Warner Brothers?

02:22:21.000 Just standing in the way every time you try to put out an album, they go, I don't hear a hit here.

02:22:26.000 It's like, well, because there are none.

02:22:28.000 Okay.

02:22:29.000 Wait for the next record.

02:22:30.000 It's out in two months, you know?

02:22:33.000 But they want to make as much as they possibly can off a one record.

02:22:36.000 And the one record, it puts an immense amount of pressure on an artist without.

02:22:41.000 without developing the artist at all.

02:22:45.000 It's what's Honor has done?

02:22:48.000 The music industry is a shallow money trench where good men die like dogs, you know?

02:22:56.000 It's a racket.

02:22:58.000 But don't you think that now less of it?

02:23:00.000 Because there are people like you out there.

02:23:01.000 There's, you know, Tyler the Creator, didn't he make most of his everything was just created by himself online, right?

02:23:07.000 I don't know.

02:23:08.000 Isn't that the case?

02:23:10.000 You don't know?

02:23:12.000 You don't know?

02:23:13.000 But you That's too hard.

02:23:15.000 I don't know.

02:23:15.000 Who knows?

02:23:16.000 Well, is it a weird one?

02:23:17.000 Him specifically?

02:23:18.000 I don't know't know, but I would say, folks, that's the story that's being told.

02:23:21.000 Okay, but some people have done it, right?

02:23:23.000 Oliver Anthony for sure did it.

02:23:23.000 Yeah.

02:23:25.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:23:26.000 And it's, you know, it's a new pathway.

02:23:28.000 If you have something that really resonates, like your United Health song or any of your songs, like, that's all you need, you know?

02:23:34.000 And then that one thing can change everything and then people listen.

02:23:39.000 Totally.

02:23:40.000 Yeah.

02:23:41.000 And the fact that you're able to do it completely independently, you're able to have, like, a truly authentic voice. 0.80

02:23:48.000 Like, it's like when you sing about who's the guy that created it that doesn't give a fuck, what's his name? 0.95

02:23:55.000 Richard T. Burke. 0.99

02:23:56.000 Yeah, Richard T. Burke. 0.99

02:23:57.000 So you can sing about Richard T. Burke doesn't give a fuck. 0.99

02:24:01.000 Like, it's, no one's in your ear. 0.99

02:24:04.000 Nobody's telling you to be careful.

02:24:06.000 No one, yeah, no one's.

02:24:08.000 So, like, I'm hearing, I'm like, yeah.

02:24:10.000 You know, it, it, people know.

02:24:13.000 They know when something is authentic.

02:24:15.000 it's real weird. 0.97

02:24:16.000 They're fucking the way people tune into a song, it's, there's something going on with songs, you know? 0.97

02:24:24.000 It's, it's not just like a bunch of music and a bunch of lyrics, like, it changes the way you feel. 0.99

02:24:30.000 Yeah.

02:24:30.000 It's a drug.

02:24:31.000 It's a weird, like, a good song is like a good drug.

02:24:31.000 Yeah.

02:24:34.000 Have you heard FreeBird?

02:24:34.000 Yeah, dude.

02:24:36.000 Oh, fuck yeah. 1.00

02:24:37.000 Dude. 1.00

02:24:38.000 I've heard that song about a thousand more than a thousand times.

02:24:41.000 Yeah.

02:24:42.000 A hundred thousand times.

02:24:44.000 Yeah.

02:24:44.000 If you don't think music's a drug, listen to FreeBird.

02:24:47.000 Listen to that fucking guitar solo. 1.00

02:24:48.000 Live him with the devil. 1.00

02:24:49.000 Oh, yeah.

02:24:51.000 Yeah.

02:24:54.000 Yeah.

02:24:55.000 Whole lot of love.

02:24:57.000 Yeah.

02:24:58.000 Fire Dogs.

02:24:58.000 Yeah.

02:25:00.000 There's songs that change the way you feel that if that was a drug, that would be a very valuable drug.

02:25:05.000 Yeah.

02:25:06.000 You know?

02:25:07.000 There's little mood caps.ules, man.

02:25:09.000 Yeah.

02:25:10.000 I want to feel melancholy.

02:25:11.000 Here's Yesterday by the Beatles.

02:25:13.000 Right.

02:25:15.000 Yesterday.

02:25:15.000 Right.

02:25:17.000 Yeah, there's a bunch of songs like that.

02:25:19.000 Captain Jack.

02:25:21.000 You know?

02:25:22.000 Captain Jack.

02:25:23.000 Captain Jack will get you high tonight.

02:25:25.000 Oh, I was thinking about it.

02:25:26.000 It's a fantastic song.

02:25:28.000 No.

02:25:29.000 Captain Jack is one of Billy Joel's greatest songs. 0.99

02:25:31.000 It's a great fucking song. 0.99

02:25:33.000 Guy living on Long Island. 1.00

02:25:35.000 It's great.

02:25:36.000 It's a great song. 0.99

02:25:37.000 It's like you listen to it, you're like, God damn, he nailed it. 1.00

02:25:40.000 He fucking nailed it. 1.00

02:25:42.000 is one of the greats, man. 0.97

02:25:44.000 Dude, I really appreciate you coming in and I really love what you're doing.

02:25:48.000 Thanks for having me. 0.97

02:25:49.000 I just wanted to have you in here, shoot the shit with you, see what your process was and how you think about things. 0.99

02:25:56.000 And I really enjoyed it. 0.99

02:25:57.000 Thanks for having me, Joe.

02:25:58.000 My pleasure.

02:25:59.000 Tell everybody what's the best place to find you and find your stuff.

02:26:03.000 I'm, you know, I'm online.

02:26:06.000 So go, you know, get online.

02:26:09.000 Do you have, what is your Instagram?

02:26:12.000 Wells Music.

02:26:13.000 Wells Music.

02:26:14.000 There it is.

02:26:15.000 W E L L L. E-L-L-E-S. 0.97

02:26:18.000 So it's wellsmusic.com.

02:26:18.000 Yeah.

02:26:21.000 Tour dates are all there.

02:26:23.000 Yeah.

02:26:24.000 Go out and see them.

02:26:25.000 Support.

02:26:27.000 Dude, continued success and best of luck to you.

02:26:30.000 I really enjoy what you're doing.

02:26:31.000 Thanks for having me.

02:26:32.000 My pleasure, bro.

02:26:33.000 All right.

The Joe Rogan Experience - August 19, 2025

Joe Rogan Experience #2367 - Jesse Welles

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript