In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, I sit down with the host of the YouTube channel Ancient History on the Rise and discuss his journey from a traditional academic career to a YouTube channel that focuses on the topic of Ancient History. We talk about how he got started with his Ancient History channel and how he came up with the idea for the show. We also talk about the discovery of Homo sapiens in Morocco and the impact it had on our understanding of human history.
00:01:14.000So I studied ancient history at university for four years.
00:01:17.000And I've always been interested in history.
00:01:19.000I've done history all the way through.
00:01:20.000Like I was fascinated about history as a kid and got to the stage of my life where it was, you know, thinking about going to university.
00:01:27.000So I thought I'll do ancient history at university and study there for four years, graduated, all of that kind of stuff.
00:01:32.000But there came a point during my degree where I was kind of, you know, a little bit...
00:01:38.000I didn't quite agree with the kind of high level ideas regarding the timeline of history and what we're taught about our ancient past.
00:01:47.000And it wasn't that I disputed anything that I'd been taught and I have like great respect for the people that I met at university and my professors.
00:01:55.000And I don't dispute anything that we were taught actually on the course, but it was more the kind of high level macro perspective of history that I found myself having more and more more questions about and yeah so what what bothered you like what were the questions it was kind of the big questions regarding the origins of civilization and how deep civilization goes and how complex human behavior you know, I thought went way back further into history than what we were being taught.
00:02:24.000And I wasn't too, I just didn't buy this idea that nothing happened for like a vast stretch of time.
00:02:31.000Because it was during my course that they found that modern humans, they made this discovery in Morocco in 2017 or 2018, I think.
00:02:40.000And that was when I was at university.
00:02:59.000It goes up to potentially 360,000 years old.
00:03:01.000years old so they're super old and yeah they thought they were initially neanderthal because of this age but then they discovered a few more and they were they classified them as homo sapien and when i saw that i was like how is this not kicking up more of a fuss because before them the oldest Homo sapien remains we had were around 200,000
00:03:17.000years old and that had been the case for like a decade or something and before that it was like 100,000 years old so this discovery pushed back the age of our species by another third like 100,000 years so I saw that and I was thinking like how are we still basing our kind of idea of history around the fact that nothing happened for you know 310,000 years and then everything happened in like the last you know 10,000 years since the Neolithic Revolution.
00:03:41.000I just thought that was odd because, you know, we've been in this anatomically modern form for so long and yet we were being taught that nothing had happened until, you know, the last 10,000 years.
00:03:51.000And that just didn't make sense to me.
00:03:53.000So that's kind of where I started thinking about it.
00:03:55.000And then we did this module at university, I remember, called, it was called something like Cataclysms or something.
00:04:01.000And it was all about how in recorded history, natural disaster had a big impact on human societies and stuff like that.
00:04:07.000And how small, like tiny changes in climate could massively disrupt human civilization and bring them all crashing down.
00:04:14.000And the case study they used was something called the Late Bronze Age Collapse.
00:04:17.000Have you ever heard of the Late Bronze Age?
00:04:19.000And that's when all these like powerful influential civilizations at the kind of peak of human progress around 1000 BC all simultaneously came crashing down.
00:04:29.000But the best theory we have is that it's like a kind of combination of climate factors, which led to trade disruption, which led to societal unrest.
00:04:38.000And then all these empires like the Hittite Empire, the Syrian Empire, the palaces of Mycenae in Greece, the Egyptian New Kingdom, all within a 20 to 30, 40 year period, all came crashing down the exact same time.
00:04:51.000Like, we don't even know why this happened.
00:04:53.000But it was like a half degree changing climate.
00:05:11.000Just a tiny half-degree change in climate which caused drought which led to those civilizations collapsing.
00:05:16.000Some of the stuff that had been happening during prehistory was so much worse than that.
00:05:20.000And that got me thinking like, how do we know that sophisticated human culture hadn't flourished, you know, 10,000 years ago, 20,000 years ago, 100,000 years ago, 200,000 years ago, and collapsed due to climate change or natural disaster, volcanoes, comet impacts, anything like that.
00:05:36.000And that's kind of what set me on the journey.
00:05:38.000That along with the discovery of the remains in Morocco.
00:05:42.000And that really got me thinking about the story we've told regarding our past and how our our past and how I wasn't quite sure.
00:05:48.000And yeah, that's kind of what made me initially kind of break away from the traditional timeline that we were being taught.
00:05:55.000The term prehistory is weird, isn't it?
00:06:15.000You know, we're, we're, that's one of the things that disturbs me the most is the arrogance that some academics have to having a definitive understanding of the exact timeline of agriculture, civilization, and then modern humans.
00:06:33.000I feel like academics, as opposed to the alternative historians are kind of more saying, we don't know, but here's a potential hypothetical scenario that could be possible.
00:06:41.000Whereas I feel like more mainstream, for want of a better word, I don't really like using that because I don't think there's such a thing as a mainstream.
00:06:47.000It's not like there's a group of people that will collectively decide, but some particularly vocal mainstream kind of historians and scientists seem to claim to know absolute truth about the past.
00:06:59.000Like how can anyone know about what happened 100,000 years ago or 200,000 years ago or 200,000 years ago and it gets me a little bit rolled up because at the end of the day, none of us know what happened back then.
00:07:09.000So I think a lot more possibilities are, you know, possible than what many people appreciate.
00:07:16.000Did you ever see there was a video documentary back in the day, something about the mysteries of the Sphinx and there was this archeologist that was mocking Graham Hancock's ideas and Dr. Robert Schaak's ideas about the timeline, talking about things that existed pre-10,000 years.
00:07:40.000And he was saying, he was like laughing.
00:07:44.000What evidence is there of any civilization from 10,000 years ago?
00:07:50.000This was literally, I think, around the same time that they discovered Gobekli Tepe.
00:08:00.000I think slightly thereafter they discovered Gobekli Tepe, which threw everything.
00:08:05.000Into a Tizzy because now you've got something that was absolutely covered.
00:08:12.000they believe intentionally somewhere in the neighborhood of 11 000 years ago yeah i think gobekli tepe is the biggest kind ofgest kind of smoking gun for at least for the idea that civilization is older and more complex than the traditional model suggests, because obviously, as you say, it's like twelve thousand years old and it's massive megalithic pillars.
00:08:30.000I mean, you know about Göbekli Tepe, probably most people listening to this will know about Göbekli Tepe, but it's such a clear sign that sophisticated human culture was present way earlier than the conventional timeline suggests.
00:08:41.000And I think that at least should throw a monkey wrench into a lot of these people's ideas regarding human civilization and when it began, because clearly the toolkit for civilization existed twelve thousand years ago.
00:08:52.000So why couldn't it have existed a little bit then, did it then take another six thousand years for it to emerge in ancient Summa, which is the kind of traditional thought to be the earliest civilization?
00:09:28.000Like, it's crazy how it's not defined as anything other than Hunter Gatherers.
00:09:33.000And if even if you think that Hunter Gatherers built Kebekli Tepe, then you need to massively update the definition of what a hunter-gatherer is because clearly they had surplus they weren't just building these sites in their spare time and yeah it's it's a truly paradigm shifting site but i mean i mean everyone kind of knows about go back to the topic now but not everyone but it but also as spectacular as what they've discovered so far is they have only unearthed five percent of it which is even more bizarre because you've got so
00:10:04.000much stuff that's underground you have no idea what's on those pillars you know there's speculation that one of the pillars from go back to the topic that is unearthed is some sort of a calendar of events and they believe that it depicts some sort of a disaster, like that these whatever how they they're making these images to be associated with either an impact or something, but there's a timeline that's inscribed in these pillars.
00:10:34.000Yeah, there's like a study that was written or a paper that was written and they think it's the pillar 43, I think it is, is kind of like a cosmic calendar and it's like a almost a prediction model of an impact that could happen or already has happened and that it's like a warning for the future.
00:10:50.000I mean, that is still disputed, but there's been good research that's done into that that suggests that's what it is.
00:10:55.000And it's certainly a site that has cosmic alignments and has been built with the stars in mind, which is something that we can say about so many ancient sites around the world, which is another thing that isn't really considered by, you know, quote unquote, mainstream archaeology, perhaps as much as it should be.
00:11:13.000So, yeah, it's a fascinating site, and I really think it displays a lot about how human ingenuity and civilization.
00:11:21.000I mean, people get a bit stuck with the word civilization because we have this very narrow definition of what civilization is.
00:11:28.000And it's basically based on the old model of Mesopotamia, which is ancient Summa.
00:11:33.000And because that was the earliest known civilization for so long, we kind of constructed this whole idea about what a civilization is purely based on Mesopotamia.
00:11:42.000But I don't see why that has to be what civilization is, because that was just one civilization.
00:11:46.000And just because that was the earliest one we'd found for a long time and still is thought of as such, doesn't mean that that's the only way that humanity can flourish.
00:11:56.000because humans are so adaptable we do so many different things and we're clever in different ways and we you know change to different environments and I think that definition has really kept a lot of people kind of boxed in when thinking about how sophisticated human culture could flourish in different places and different environments and with different pressures.
00:12:15.000And I think that's kind of forced people to not consider what other possibilities are out there.
00:12:23.000I think it's even more fascinating if you consider the fact that ancient Sumer and that part of the world from about 6,000 years ago is where they're sort of hanging their hat saying that this is the birthplace of civilization.
00:12:38.000But if you do have this evidence of Gobekli Tepe, and then we are talking about some sort of an ancient civilization that lived 12,000 years ago, like what happened?
00:12:49.000Like, what was the gap between that and then it took six thousand years before they started civilization back up again, sort of a reimagining of civilization, which makes you really, at least makes me really consider the possibility of a cataclysm, because if the people that survived, whatever they would be, you know, I mean, they would probably be living off the land, they'd probably be barely getting by and barbaric for a long, long time.
00:13:17.000And if it really took six thousand years to kind of like settle down again, that is fascinating to me.
00:13:23.000Yeah, and it all ties into this idea that we've had that.
00:13:27.000agriculture leads to civilization, but there's that bizarre thing that agriculture appears in multiple different places at pretty much the exact same time all over the world and that's never made sense to me because if agriculture was such a kind of vital invention for civilization to flourish then why did no one invent it for you know 310,000 years.
00:13:51.000And then in South America, in Mesopotamia, in ancient China, and you could argue there's other different places that, so say there's like South America and there's Central America.
00:14:00.000I mean, you could argue that's potentially connected, but a lot of people say it isn't.
00:14:03.000So how can agriculture, if it's such an incredible invention, be invented by multiple people at the same time, but no one else thought of it before?
00:14:15.000It doesn't make any sense they wouldn't figure out seeds.
00:14:17.000How do you not know eventually that these seeds are dropping and then you see seedlings that are coming out of the ground?
00:14:27.000Just that seems pretty logical and an easy connection.
00:14:31.000And then you'd say, oh, well, if we gather these seeds and go plant them over there, you know, maybe we can get some fruit trees over here.
00:14:48.000So because of the Holocene, which is which began around 12000 years ago, as we came out of that and we had kind of stable climate conditions that we still live in today.
00:14:56.000that's what enabled the invention of agriculture.
00:15:31.000So considering we've been through four distinct warm periods before the Holocene, and if the argument is that the Holocene was what led to the invention of agriculture due to the stable climate, then why couldn't it have happened in the earlier warm periods?
00:15:45.000That's a question I've always asked myself and been fascinated by.
00:15:49.000And the real problem is there would be very little evidence, if any.
00:15:53.000Yeah, so this is the preservation problem, and this is something I talk about in my videos.
00:15:57.000I kind of always ask the question, like, what if human culture had flourished in the Emian, for example, which was from 130 to 115,000 years ago, what realistically would survive?
00:16:09.000Because it's such a vast, vast length of time that it's really unlikely, at least as far as I can tell, and obviously I'm not a scientist, I'm not like a, you know, a materialist, I'm not any kind of, I'm just a guy, I'm not even a historian technically, but as
00:16:39.000I think it would be extremely unlikely that pretty much anything would survive when you get up to these huge time scales of like 100,000 years.
00:16:47.000And so I've been doing quite a lot of research into this because I don't I obviously don't want to, you know, get things wrong and put falsehoods out there and mislead people.
00:16:57.000I don't want to look like a dickhead in front of like millions of people or whatever.
00:17:00.000So I've been trying to like, you know, debunk myself or play devil's advocate to myself on this point because, you know, that's the best way to make your argument airtight and no one's really out there debunking me.
00:17:12.000I don't know if that's because I'm right or because, like, no one knows me.
00:17:16.000Maybe that will change after a show like this, but...
00:17:31.000So if you're right, like somewhere like London or Manhattan, like, yeah, what would be left in a hundred thousand years?
00:17:43.000As far as I can tell, and obviously cement buildings, they would just deteriorate.
00:17:46.000They would go, they would go, like, concrete would crack and you'd get CO2 in there and freeze thaw weathering and over these huge time scales of like five thousand years, ten thousand years, they would just crumble down.
00:17:57.000into dust and be absolutely imperceptible.
00:18:36.000If they're metals, they're going to oxidize.
00:18:37.000They're going to flake until they're just tiny little fragments that just disperse in the sedimentary record and they're just invisible to see.
00:18:44.000And same with concrete, same with even things like glass.
00:18:47.000I've heard a lot of people say that glass would potentially survive because glass is a, you know, it's a very durable material and glass would survive a long time.
00:18:55.000But glass in the form of a human-made recognizable artifact.
00:19:03.000It's going to break away into tiny little nanofragments, into silica grains that are just invisible in the kind of archaeological record when you get up to these huge levels of time.
00:19:13.000And yeah, I mean, there's, I would say almost nothing would survive that long.
00:19:18.000And again, with the caveat that I'm just some random dude who's investigated this on the internet and researched this myself, not a scientist.
00:19:24.000If anyone out there is a material scientist, I'd encourage them to reach out to me.
00:19:28.000But as far as I can tell, there are very few things that could possibly survive that long.
00:19:38.000So things like nuclear weapons, like we test nuclear weapons in the atmosphere.
00:19:41.000You could argue if we knew when to look and what to look for, we could see traces of plutonium in the atmosphere from our nuclear weapons testing.
00:19:48.000Or you could see our nuclear waste deposits.
00:19:51.000Or things like carved stone, because stone obviously survives a very long time., human carved stone, you'd be able to find that.
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00:22:23.000I mean, that's the weirdest of those is when you see them get invaded in the Amazon when you see them contact these people and they're pointing bows and arrows at helicopters and they're naked.
00:22:35.000Humans can do so many different things.
00:22:37.000And as you say, right now we're sending rockets to space and people are living in very traditional ways of life.
00:22:42.000And that just because we find traditional ways of life in, I repeat, nine sites to cover two hundred thousand years, in my view, that's just what we can see.
00:22:52.000That's just the only that points to my point regarding what would possibly survive.
00:22:56.000Because if you think of all the human lives, stories, cultures that have potentially existed for our whole species existence, if we only have nine little glimpses from, and to be fair, that nine is.
00:23:08.000is you could say it's up to 15 because some sites are debated but either way it's a tiny, tiny, tiny amount of human, you know, signs of human life.
00:23:18.000Just because in that fragment, in that snapshot, in that slither, all we see is some humans with stone tools in caves doesn't mean that nothing else was happening.
00:23:29.000Well, a good piece of evidence to that that would point in that direction is Egypt because Egypt, even if you accept the conventional timeline of Egypt, which is 2500 BC for the Great Pyramid, go look at the rest of the world at 2500 BC.
00:23:48.000Yeah, they were clearly, even if you kind of look at the conventional model of history, the ancient Egyptians were wildly ahead of everyone.
00:23:57.000And that's if you and the conventional model doesn't really give us any explanations of how they were doing what they were doing.
00:24:02.000They arrogantly dismiss any other explanations, which is really weird when you're talking about these immense structures that are baffling.
00:24:11.000Absolutely baffling to anyone who's being honest.
00:24:14.000What is your view on these Italian researchers that are looking at the tomography and they're looking at these things that they believe are under the Great Pyramid and some other structures in Egypt?
00:24:25.000Yeah, the kind of the what's it called?
00:25:31.000But I mean, I think there's definitely something below the Giza Plateau.
00:25:36.000Like that's always been written about in ancient sources and these kind of scans.
00:25:41.000And then people kind of, you have stories of people going down into labyrinths that aren't, you know, accepted by Egyptology.
00:25:47.000And there's definitely massive mystery surrounding Giza and the construction of the pyramids and what could potentially be below the pyramids.
00:25:54.000And this kind of new pyramid scan project has the potential, I think, to, you know, make big progress in understanding what is below Giza.
00:26:04.000But I don't know, until there's better data out there, I'm not going to, you know, jump to any conclusions and declarations.
00:26:11.000declare that this is like evidence of a lost advanced technology civilization or anything.
00:26:34.000They'd probably try, mate, because it already doesn't make sense their explanation for the construction of the pyramids being wooden sledges and stone chisels or whatever they say.
00:27:10.000I mean, I'm not an expert in ancient Egypt by any respect, but it's always baffled me that they're so determined that the pyramids are tombs just because some later pyramids have had, you know, mummies and pharaohs and sarcophagi found inside them.
00:28:03.000Yeah, which would be crazy, wouldn't it?
00:28:06.000Especially if you add into that the Graham Hancock's ideas and some of these other people's ideas that perhaps some of these structures are far older.
00:28:15.000Well, the kind of Orion correlation and the Sphinx.
00:28:19.000Also the fact that the deeper you go into the sand, the more sophisticated the building techniques are.
00:28:26.000Like larger stones, like what happened?
00:28:30.000The whole of like ancient Egypt and the Sahara Desert in general just doesn't make sense to me because when you look at the Sahara Desert and the fact that it was green for nine thousand years and then it stopped being green at precisely the time that we're told ancient Egypt emerged, well, that doesn't make sense.
00:28:55.000And so little research done in sub-Saharan Africa, where they've actually gone into the ground and done like large scale research of these immense areas.
00:29:06.000The Sahara Desert is vast and obviously covered in sand and extremely hot, extremely difficult to survey, politically instable, and there's basically no archeological work done across the whole.
00:29:31.000It's right by Mesopotamia, it's right by Egypt, and yet we have this blank spot for the nine thousand years before the development of civilization, which is kind of also the gap between, I mean, it's a little bit less than this, but the gap between Gabekli Tepe and the birth of civilization.
00:29:46.000We have this huge area which would have been perfect for civilization, full of rivers, lakes, grasslands, perfect climate, and it's just missing.
00:29:55.000Also abundant resources where they could establish a stable civilization because they had so much food and they weren't being attacked, so they could kind of set up shop and figure some things out over a long period of time.
00:30:10.000Yeah, so my theory is that things were happening in the Sahara Desert when it was green, in the green Sahara, for those 9,000 years.
00:30:16.000And then because it was really quick, that's what I don't think people realize is that when the Sahara Desert turned from, you know, green, lush paradise, whatever you want to call it, to a desert, it was like a few centuries.
00:30:45.000And then I think maybe people migrated to the last stretch of green that was still available to them, which was the Nile River.
00:30:52.000And then the kind of survivors or the migratory populations developed around the Nile River and using the kind of experience and knowledge that they had from their lives and the kind of history of their cultures in the Green Sahara period, that is what led to ancient Egypt.
00:31:12.000Or even previous to that, which is also possible, especially when you consider what Robert Chalk thinks about the erosion, the water erosion and the Temple of the Sphinx.
00:31:23.000Yeah, the kind of explanation away of that also never made sense to me.
00:31:26.000that it's wind and sand because when you see pictures of the Sphinx even from when they kind of found it in Napoleonic times, it's buried in sand.
00:32:41.000How quickly did they get covered up by sediment that they could find them all these years later?
00:32:46.000Because that's the weird thing about fossils and bones in general is that most of them you're never going to find because they get eaten, they deteriorate, they're gone.
00:33:28.000I mean, some people say that there's like a mass flood during the kind of younger dryest period, which I think is I think they're talking about millions of years ago for the bones.
00:33:36.000How old are these whale bones supposed to be?
00:33:41.000But I think millions of years ago, it's assumed that it was completely underwater, right?
00:33:49.000But even not too long ago, like, you know, kind of 12,000 years ago or whatever, they had these massive river systems like the Tamarasit River System.
00:37:52.000Because a lot of people would claim to think.
00:37:54.000and the kind of consensus always is that we didn't do that until 12,000 years ago.
00:37:59.000We didn't settle down and form permanent communities until the Neolithic Revolution.
00:38:04.000I think that's one of the major paradigms, if you like, that we have regarding our past that simply doesn't make sense in light of new evidence.
00:38:13.000What is that evidence that they found of wood construction from far longer than they thought?
00:38:22.000This is something I talk about a lot in my videos because I think it's a crazy find and I don't understand why it's not kicking up more of a fuss.
00:38:29.000If I'm the guy that has to kick up the fuss about it, then I'll be that guy because basically the idea has always been that humans were nomadic hunter-gatherers that moved with the seasons and lived in caves or just kind of walked around for all of our history until the neolithic revolution the invention of agriculture twelve thousand years ago and no earlier than that did we ever settle down and live in permanent settlements but the Colombo structure was something they found a few years ago in
00:39:01.000And what it is is this, these pieces of wood, and I'll get to the point about why this wood has survived in a minute, because obviously, you know, wood surviving this long is crazy.
00:39:09.000But there you go, yes, so the Colombo structure is these pieces of wood that have been joined together deliberately, cut in notches and connected together, tapered and secured at right angles.
00:39:19.000And they think it was either a kind of raised walkway, like a kind of raised platform, or a house, a dwelling, a hut, some kind of structure.
00:39:27.000And why this is so paradigm shifting is because not only does this kind of scream that humans potentially lived in permanent settlement, sorry, I haven't even said this, this is 476,000 years old, so this pre dates Homo sapiens, so allegedly.
00:40:38.000Yeah, I would say it's a massive monkey wrench because not only does it kind of really dispute this idea that we didn't settle down until, you know, 12,000 years ago with the Neolithic Revolution, because I mean it's a structure.
00:40:51.000I mean, and it's just because it's so unlikely, it's so unbelievable that this would have survived, but that kind of suggests that it's not the only one.
00:41:00.000There could have been loads of these, like structures everywhere.
00:41:04.000And as you said, Manhattan wouldn't live, wouldn't exist in a hundred thousand years.
00:41:14.000And it's just wood, which is less durable than all the other things we were talking about.
00:41:18.000Yeah, and obviously people may be saying, well, look, clearly things survive, but this is an extreme edge case scenario where it's, it's like, so incredibly unlikely that this wooden structure would kind of sink into a bog, and then that bog be, you know, solidified over, and then it would stay in that preserved.
00:41:32.000Like, it's a really And then that they would find it.
00:41:34.000And then they would find it, exactly, because, you know, what would you do?
00:41:47.000and it really suggests that humans were living in much more complex societies.
00:41:53.000The fact that they had the cognitive capacity to plan, structurally engineer, and build a structure completely flies in the face of what we've always thought about ancient humans.
00:42:04.000Because we've always had this idea that there's been this very popular idea in kind of mainstream historical thought that humans only got smart.
00:42:40.000It sells something like 60 million copies worldwide.
00:42:43.000By far the most popular book about prehistory and, you know, the story of Homo sapiens ever written.
00:42:49.000And Sapiens didn't kind of do anything new.
00:42:52.000It didn't, I think Harari himself would admit this.
00:42:56.000It didn't, it didn't, it kind of just collected the consensus of academia and presented it in a nice, digestible way to the kind of layman audience.
00:43:06.000But he took this idea that's always been present in academia regarding human intelligence, which is that while we've been around for quite a long time, we didn't achieve behavioral modernity until 50,000 to 60,000 years ago.
00:43:18.000And that's when we started apparently displaying complex cognitive traits like abstract thinking and planning and burying our dead and art.
00:43:29.000And complex language and things like that.
00:43:32.000But this just completely flies in the face of that, because if we had the capability to plan, construct and engineer a structure 476,000 years ago, mainstream anthropology was off by over 400,000 years regarding the advent of intelligence and the advent of permanent living.
00:43:51.000And that's, I mean, that's quite the error.
00:44:02.000Well, it's also when you think about the history of the Earth, there are times that we know that there was, like, there's great bottlenecks that occurred because of some sort of a massive natural catastrophe, like the Toba volcano.
00:44:34.000Right, well, you're thinking about what evidence there is, and then you think about, well, there's no one left except a few thousand people 70,000 years ago.
00:44:45.000So it's possible that there's been this rise of some sort of a civilization, and then massive catastrophe and a reconstruction, just like if we're talking about the younger Dryas, which is in this time period we're talking about, you know, when you're dealing with 476,000 years ago, fairly recent, right?
00:45:55.000Well, in terms of your theory that I thought was one of the most interesting ones that you brought up that in your videos, you were talking about how anatomical humans, just based on what we've agreed to, based on what we found 300,000 years, like what are the possibilities that there have been civilizations that have emerged and were destroyed, and then there's no evidence of them.
00:46:19.000Yeah, because, I mean, aside from the preservation problem, which we kind of already talked about when you get up to these massive time scales, you know, very little is going to survive, especially when you think about what early humans were likely building with.
00:46:47.000Because these people that made these journeys down there looking for these complex civilizations that at one point in time, now we know did exist there.
00:46:55.000And just 100 years later, they called those people liars because they went back to the same place and there was nothing left.
00:47:00.000And so that's always been, you know, thought of as myth or pseudoscience that it's kind of that most popular idea of lost civilizations was civilizations of the Amazon and it was always dismissed.
00:47:19.000Or if you look at Chernobyl, the kind of exclusion zone where no one lives, it's already like trees everywhere and like nature is already taking root after less than half a century.
00:47:35.000And then if you go 200,000 years, I mean, if anatomically modern humans, if we've discovered them at 300,000 years, what if somebody digs one that's 2 million years old?
00:50:13.000And one of the things that I find very promising is that a lot of young academics are embracing a lot of alternative ideas, whether quietly or whether they're doing it publicly.
00:50:26.000Yeah, well, I think the advent of the internet and shows like this or the medium of podcasting has really kind of democratized the access to information and allowed people with theories that potentially wouldn't have been able to get out there in the pre internet era where they were kind of you had to go through an academic institution to get a theory heard or debated.
00:50:48.000Now, anyone can say anything for better or worse, and that can reach millions of people.
00:50:52.000And then, if it's an idea that's popular, then it can kind of be in the public eye, and then it can be debated properly.
00:52:23.000So that's why I don't get why people make these definitive conclusions and then don't allow anybody to kind of speculate or hypothesize about anything else.
00:52:34.000It's also these people that have been teaching this one thing forever being threatened by the fact that they were wrong.
00:52:40.000The last thing in actionademic wants to hear is like you wrote this book this stupid book this book misled people for decades you were so wrong like they will fight it with every ounce of their being because it's essentially their identity their identity is being the gatekeeper of their understanding of human history yeah they built a whole career around it and they've you know as you say it's their identity they've been the knowledge the keeper of knowledge on a particular subject.
00:53:19.000And those are the people that are attacking Graham Hancock with every possible insult, calling it the most dangerous show on television.
00:53:28.000But it's also, it's so revealing because it's so obvious that if you watch this show, you're like, wait, this is the most dangerous show on TV?
00:53:39.000He's like, just talking about these bizarre structures that exist that seem to defy our modern understanding of how things are built.
00:53:48.000And when I mean, I don't agree with absolutely everything Graham Hancock says, but when I look at, you know, these ideas of, you know, human intelligence.
00:53:57.000potentially stretching back 500,000 years as displayed by the Colombo structure or permanent living.
00:54:02.000I would argue that it could go back a lot further than that.
00:54:06.000When you take into account that these abilities could have stretched back half a million years, when I then look at someone like Graham's work, it seems so plausible.
00:54:16.000I don't see why it's seen as so outrageous that, because 12,000 years ago, which is kind of when he proposes there could have been a, you know, a sophisticated civilization that was potentially wiped out by a cataclysm, when you look at that from the perspective of, oh yeah, we've been intelligent for half a million years, it doesn't seem very, it doesn't, it seems very plausible to me.
00:54:35.000Not only that, it's 450,0000 years after the first structure now.
00:54:49.000It's not just you, it's like those academics as well that found it.
00:54:52.000To be fair, the guy that found it, the archaeologist that found it, said that he never could have imagined that pre Homo sapien, and again, it may not be pre Homo sapien, it could be Homo sapien, but he said it's completely paradigm shifting that they had the capacity to plan and build something like this.
00:55:17.000Yeah, I mean more of these conversations and more people have to understand that these things are being discovered and that we are kind of confused about so many things about human history.
00:55:27.000And we're being told that, no, there's people at the universities that have all the answers and that it's literally not possible that they're telling the truth.
00:55:44.000It would be the most gigantic fuck you of all time if they found out that those scans are accurate and there's these pillars that are wrapped in coils that go down like hundreds of meters meters, and then below them there's additional structures and the whole.
00:55:58.000And they think it's all connected as well.
00:56:01.000Which is like, if Christopher Dunn is correct about it being some sort of power plant, and that reveals, like, how the thing worked and functioned.
00:57:05.000And I think what happens if, you know, a civilization from a million years ago got so advanced that we can't see them.
00:57:11.000and then that's what the UFO thing is, is just someone from this earth that doesn't really need the space anymore and they're just watching us.
00:57:45.000Because I've heard people say that and I've always thought, I guess that must be from Homo habilis to Homo erectus from just two million years ago.
00:57:53.000It's an immense leap that is, like Terence McKenna used to say, it would be bizarre if it was a liver of an otter that doubled over a period of that amount of time.
00:58:05.000But the fact that it's the very organ that allows us to contemplate and to understand human existence in the first place, and that that organ doubled over a period of two million years, like, what happened?
00:58:21.000He's got the wackiest theory, because he thinks it's psilocybin mushrooms.
00:58:24.000I think there could be something to that.
00:58:26.000I mean, because, you know, ancient cultures have always used psychedelic substances and basically all the way up until Western civil society kind of took hold.
00:58:37.000It's always been an integral part of human culture and human society.
00:58:41.000And then us in our modern world have decided to outlaw that.
00:58:44.000And I think that's a tragic mistake, to be honest with you.
00:58:52.000And I think that is also one of the good things about discussions that are happening on the internet that are kind of unchecked and untethered by academia.
01:00:20.000But we, I mean, we're not even supposed to have left Africa until this time of the cognitive revolution.
01:00:24.000And that's always been one of the points, like, oh, look, we got smart, we left Africa sixty thousand years ago.
01:00:30.000But that's never made sense to me either, because Homo erectus managed to migrate out of Africa and colonize lots of Asia and parts of Europe over a million years ago.
01:00:39.000And if they're supposedly inferior to us, then how can they make this massive leap?
01:00:44.000And Heidelbergensis did it six hundred thousand years ago.
01:00:47.000And if they're supposedly inferior to us, how come they did this?
01:00:57.000Well, it gets controversial when you bring in aliens too, because aliens become racist.
01:01:01.000It becomes racist because now you're not accrediting the Africans to building the pyramids.
01:01:10.000Well, I watched this very bizarre discussion between some guy that was trying to claim that it wasn't Africans that built the pyramids, that it was white people that built the pyramids.
01:01:19.000So there are people that have this sort of racist idea of the construction of the pyramids.
01:01:25.000But you can't attach that to everyone who's speculating about the construction because it's too, the things are too weird.
01:02:31.000Like, what if all that stuff, what if, you know, this is one of the things that Zawi Hawass was very reluctant to, he's like, what is this?
01:02:38.000I was talking about the kings list that goes back 30,000 years.
01:02:56.000they have king lists that go back this far and yeah we say that some of them are myth and to be fair they have kings that reign for like a thousand years which is a bit weird it's a bit weird probably not I mean unless you're talking some kind of alien thing then that probably wasn't human but that might just be because it would have been a long time ago for them too when they were writing these king lists But it doesn't mean that their civilization only started with the first dynasty.
01:03:18.000What we've decided is the line between myth and fact.
01:03:21.000Because that's a modern interpretation after the fact.
01:04:02.000But you don't accept this possibility that it might actually go far, far, far earlier than that.
01:04:08.000And the whole the pyramids thing kind of plays into the fact that stone is one of the only things that survives and pyramids are these massiveive stone constructions.
01:04:18.000Like, ironically, they would be one of the only things from our, not that they really count as our civilization, but from the modern world, the pyramids would be one of the only things that could survive in a hundred thousand years.
01:04:28.000So it makes you think, like, how long have they been there?
01:04:30.000And I think the Egyptians definitely undertook some kind of construction project around the time of 2500 BC.
01:04:39.000Because there are records of them saying they did stuff, but that doesn't mean because they have all these records, but there's no record of how they built it.
01:04:46.000Well, they also the buildings that they made that were after 2500 BC are dog shit.
01:05:16.000So it's the one thing that if you're a logical person and you think you know the timeline of history, you think you understand human civilization, you think you understand like how intelligence evolved and how technology and innovation evolved, and you see that, you're like, oh, I don't know shit.
01:07:31.000But we're scrambled in like our pathway to advancement is the only one that the human mind and all its infinite creativity can conceive of.
01:07:41.000And this is another point regarding like, you know, culture that could have flourished back in 100,000 years ago or whatever.
01:07:48.000We're always looking for ourselves in the past.
01:07:51.000But there's so many different ways that we could have gone because why did it have to be mass farming, mass population growth, and then, as you say, kind of industrial progress.
01:08:02.000It could have been so many different forms of human development and human lives.
01:08:07.000Well, it could have been if they had enough animals., they mostly ate animals.
01:08:26.000our jaws like shrunk because people were eating gruel.
01:08:29.000Like if you look at part of the world where people are eating a lot of like pork You just corral a bunch of animals, you build a fence and then you eat them.
01:08:57.000And you don't really have to grow rice.
01:09:01.000So many different ways that culture could have flourished.
01:09:30.000We're talking about a completely different pathway.
01:09:33.000Clearly, there's some technology that they had that we don't understand.
01:09:37.000When you talk about the drill holes that they find or the way they had carved out these enormous mass We don't know the unfinished obelisk.
01:10:15.000It's entirely possible because we're going to eventually.
01:10:17.000If you give us another thousand years, you won't be able to recognize any of this nonsense that we use for technology today, especially when AI gets involved.
01:10:29.000Did you see that thing where a quantum computer supposedly went one second back in time?
01:12:01.000I saw an estimate, I think it was from NASA, but I'm not one hundred percent sure, but it was from a kind of scientific journal that the Earth is hit by what they define as a cataclysmic impact every 100,000 years.
01:12:13.000So that's an impact that's capable of wiping out a third of today's population every 100,000 years.
01:12:18.000And 100,000 years sounds like a long time, but again, we've been around for 300,000 years.
01:12:23.000So theoretically, we've been hit by a cataclysmic impact three times already during our story.
01:12:28.000And that both has the potential to completely wipe out anyone that was doing anything sophisticated, but also to wipe the record clean.
01:12:37.000You've got supervolcanoes, as we talked about.
01:12:40.000You've got pole shifts, you've got solar flares, you've got glaciers just scraping across the landscape and just completely erasing the record.
01:12:54.000And if you look at the kind of fluctuation of sea level rise over the last 100,000 years, 200,000 years, 300,000 years, sea levels going in and out by hundreds of kilometers at a time, and nothing is going to be left.
01:13:10.000But again, if someone is a historian and they got into this.
01:13:16.000Someone's an archaeologist and they got into this because they have this fascination for it.
01:13:20.000For them to become professors and then start teaching and writing books about this stuff and not still be fascinated by the new stuff is to me so weird.
01:13:34.000It's like you missed the whole reason why you got into this in the first place.
01:13:38.000You got into this in the first place is because you're trying to figure out what happened?
01:13:45.000And if there's evidence that shows that we don't have the full picture and you're ignoring that or dismissing that or.
01:13:53.000The thing is, when you go through these kind of systems and I'm I've sort of got experience of this.
01:13:58.000Obviously, I was never a professional academic or anything like that.
01:14:01.000But, you know, I did history for four years.
01:14:04.000I was kind of inside and I got to the point where it was almost, you know, it was do this as a career, become a professional academic or not.
01:14:10.000It's very hard to kind of even think this way because everyone around you is thinking within these boxes that we've created for ourselves.
01:14:17.000And so it's very hard to kind of open your mind.
01:14:20.000And you kind of have to do it in private as well, because no one else is talking in those terms around you.
01:14:26.000And you're surrounded by people that think in quite limited terms.
01:14:30.000And I don't say that to kind of be offensive or, you know, doubt anyone's intelligence.
01:15:54.000They're just, they have information and they hold that information as it's their identity.
01:15:59.000And they're right about a lot of things because they have been studying it and they do deserve credit for that.
01:16:05.000What they've done is amazing and the understanding that these academics, these archeologists and historians can give us of our world and our history is really cool.
01:16:16.000But there's a whole lot more out there.
01:16:19.000And for them to pretend and dismiss people like they should embrace people like Graham Hancock and then they should correct him when he's saying something that is wrong.
01:16:49.000And I wish that, you know, we've seen a surge in interest in ancient history and prehistory and, you know, the story of our species through people like Graham Hancock, who have kind of created a massive interest in this subject, but instead of embracing that, they see it as a threatat and I think that's really sad, to be honest.
01:17:11.000And yeah, I think it kind of hurts the discipline in general because if you kind of like embrace that and like brought him in to the table and spoke to him and kind of agreed to have the discussion, then it would create a much kind of more healthy debate around these things.
01:17:27.000And when you talk about the Clovis kind of narrative, it because we think that we know what happened and thus we know what didn't happen, it means that people aren't even looking for stuff that now we know was there.
01:17:41.000So like they didn't dig deeper than the Clovis layer until very recently., because they knew that humans weren't around until Clovis, but obviously that was wrong.
01:17:52.000So they could have missed so much stuff and they probably did.
01:20:00.000I mean, there's the kind of theory regarding the Polynesian kind of island chain, hopping across to Easter Island and then making one last hop across to South America.
01:20:47.000And then when they got a better understanding, I think it was like a long time after they discovered it that they go, oh wait a minute, these are gears.
01:21:05.000Like it was clearly like a long history of very, very technical stuff in ancient Greece.
01:21:10.000And it could well have been the ancient Greeks, but also it could have been like, well, where did you kind of, where's the, what's the history of this technology?
01:21:15.000And more technical than, like, this modern automatic watch.
01:21:33.000And it's all these little, and it moves, it has no power source other than the movement of your hand.
01:21:38.000hand yeah and then no that's because they're 72 hour power reserve so for 72 hours you let it sit there just from the power of your hand from wearing it for a few yeah yeah yeah that's a cool watch nuts isn't that nuts but that's normal that's a normal thing for a modern watch with these little tiny gears this thing's way crazier than yeah yeah and it's 2,000 old.
01:23:12.000Okay, someone 2,000 fucking years ago figured that out, and they have these little representations of the stars and the planets, of the sun, and then all the planets surround it.
01:23:22.000Like, first of all, how do they know all that?
01:23:37.000And no equivalent technology ever, like, re-emerged until, like, you know, like, the 16th century with, like, Swiss clockmakers or something.
01:24:51.000But just the fact that we found one of those, and it makes you wonder, like, what, what they had in Egypt?
01:24:58.000You know, what they had two thousand years before that?
01:25:00.000What did they, you know, what did we miss?
01:25:02.000I'm digging into the stone stuff where you're talking about frequencies.
01:25:04.000There's a I saw a video recently that doesn't explain all the Egyptian stuff, but there were frequencies coming out of these rocks that I don't think everyone is currently, like, studying.
01:26:01.000Someone made a video I saw recently where this semantic stuff shows up all over the place in some ancient sites, definitely obviously in churches and cathedrals.
01:26:11.000But this is what happens when you put sand on a plate and hum on it or put certain vibrations, yeah.
01:26:18.000And how you stumble across this and it just so happens to be the same thing we're like, we're discovering now.
01:27:32.000It's weird when you have these outliers, these outliers that come out of nowhere, and like he had like a working model of a flying machine.
01:28:18.000If there was just a massive solar flare, something huge that took out our power grid and destroyed all of our cell phone towers and all our satellites, no more electricity.
01:28:30.000And even if it didn't get cooked, what would you do with it in 100,000 years?
01:29:36.000Like, what is the thing is, like, I wonder how many of the satellites would still be in orbit or whether their orbit would deteriorate and they would come crashing down to Earth.
01:29:44.000I think they would decay like relatively quickly, I think.
01:29:48.000I mean, I'm not sure, but lots of them would, I think.
01:29:50.000And when we're talking big time scales.
01:30:36.000You know, well then there's the weirdestness of the moon itself, that it's the absolute perfect size and the perfect distance to completely block out the sun.
01:31:12.000You might have to read the whole thing, but there's thousands of satellites burning up each year in the atmosphere is what I got to the end of.
01:31:19.000Oh, so thousands of them crashed down?
01:31:45.000But I was trying to google how long would till the last one if they stop putting them up how long until the last one crashes down it seems like 25 years that's why then I couldn't get a good answer that way.
01:33:54.000Even in my lifetime, like I was born in 1997, didn't really have, I had to dial up the internet.
01:34:01.000I remember when I was a kid and then, you know, smartphones came along and then obviously things like AI and it's just, it is, it is pretty ridiculous.
01:34:10.000I was 27 years old before I ever got online.
01:34:36.000And we're very fortunate, I think, that we got to see what life was like with a primitive use of the internet to what it's become now to a quantum computer can go back a second in time to, you know, what is coming next.
01:35:12.000Maybe it's just a thing if you leave humans undisturbed for a long enough amount of time with food, they start figuring things out.
01:35:20.000If you can keep them from killing each other, and maybe that's the beautiful thing about the way Egyptian technology had advanced, they didn't split the atom.
01:35:29.000Maybe they figured out something else that they couldn't turn into a weapon.
01:35:34.000I mean, they were definitely doing some pretty mad stuff.
01:35:37.000And then if you look at those kind of granite boxes they made, the completely smooth surface, I mean, they clearly had some form of technology that we don't attribute to them.
01:35:48.000I mean, it is disputed, but I don't think I don't see how you can logically kind of look at what they were doing and not think they had some kind of technology that, you know, we don't traditionally attribute them to.
01:35:58.000But whether that means they were like some crazy advanced civilization or it was built by some other advanced civilization, you know, that's, you know, a bit more hypothetical, but they were clearly doing stuff that we can't appreciate today.
01:36:08.000So that logically suggests they had, you know, something that we don't understand, right?
01:36:51.000It's kind of linked to this, it's linked to this, you know, ancient civilization stuff.
01:36:56.000It's the idea that there could have been an advanced civilization on our planet, you know, 100 million years ago, a nonhuman one.
01:37:02.000one that you know was uh advanced and industrial and we just wouldn't see any trace because of how long ago it was and they could have been here and you know we just wouldn't know because it's been so long it's kind of like where I come from with my kind of human idea of obviously it's a further uh time span but it's been it was proposed by two physicists is why I uh why I just thought of it just then it's a guy called Adam Frank and uh I've had him at Adam on before.
01:37:56.000But so this idea is that something else other than human beings.
01:38:02.000It's just the idea that if it had, we wouldn't know.
01:38:04.000And because the Earth's been around for so long and complex multicellular life appeared, you know, relatively early in our like four billion year history of the Earth or whatever, I'm not sure on the dates, but we've been around, the Earth has been around for so, so, so long.
01:38:18.000And we know that intelligence can emerge because it emerged with us and happened relatively quickly when you look at the kind of massive time scale that the Earth has been around and how long multicellular life has been around.
01:38:31.000So their idea is kind of like, well, what if, you know, a civilization in the kind of era of the dinosaurs had, you know, become very advanced and industrial society?
01:38:41.000And they say we would see absolutely no evidence.
01:38:45.000When I'm talking about human civilization, we would see some potential evidence, like, you know, rock, carved stone or whatever.
01:38:51.000But they would say you wouldn't even see the nuclear waste deposits because it's that long ago that nothing would survive.
01:38:56.000And then I think about that and I think, well, isn't it almost more likely that something did happen considering we know that intelligence can emerge relatively quickly?
01:39:04.000Multicellular life has been on the planet for so so so so so so long.
01:39:08.000Limited understanding of the fossil record.
01:39:51.000Well, I feel like if you kind of survive, you know, a lot longer than we have and you kind of get to a different, like, kind of level of intelligence, then why would you need the kind of physical body?
01:40:01.000Why would you need the physical realm?
01:40:02.000And why couldn't you kind of diverge different dimensions if such a thing is possible like we certainly can imagine it taking place somewhere else on another planet with a similar atmosphere that supports life and a given maybe they live in a solar system that doesn't have an asteroid belt.
01:41:20.000it's just getting faster and faster and faster it makes you think where will we be in a hundred years in five hundred years if nothing happens yeah where will we be um i think we'll be somewhere really weird.
01:41:34.000But I'm hoping that as we do advance and wherever we're going to be, it'll help us understand where we came from.
01:41:42.000Like, you know, like if AI and super intelligence starts examining the history of the human race, then things can get very interesting.
01:41:53.000and maybe it could give us places to look like we need physical you know This is like prime place to look.
01:42:04.000Yeah, I kind of flip between like quite a pessimistic outlook and quite an optimistic outlook on these things.
01:42:10.000Like sometimes I think like it's just gone and we're never going to know and we can speculate for as much as we like but it's gone and then sometimes I think no like you never know there's so many places that are just completely unexcavated completely unexplored that we haven't looked at like you know believe the Sahara on the the the ocean floor by these um could I have some coffee please yes that'll be right thank you of course and then it's all these places that you know we haven't explored and as you say technology like AI thank you cheers thank you You know,
01:42:39.000I think sometimes I think, yeah, maybe we are going to make like these massive discoveries that are going to completely shift our understanding of history and as you say, the kind of ge Giza, the findings beneath Giza, that could be a moment.
01:43:05.000He has a very recent video of these, There's these underground structures in Egypt that he says are bigger than the Giza Plateau that are underground.
01:43:22.000I love his channel, but there's a historical record of these things where people had talked about.
01:43:27.000them like, you know, way back, even explorers had visited them and found them to be more spectacular than what is actually on the ground, that the underground thing was even crazier.
01:43:39.000And that begs the question, why, why underground?
01:43:43.000Why, why do we find all this underground construction all over the world?
01:43:59.000really awesome and he spends so much time down there so um he did something you talked about he did a video on the kind of unknown ancient site.
01:44:11.000So the unknown ancient site said to be greater than the pyramids, confirmed with satellite scans.
01:44:29.000So they found something, like there's something down there.
01:44:31.000What is down there seems to be also quite a mystery.
01:44:36.000The central object is hard to classify.
01:44:38.000It appears metallic, not stone or wood.
01:44:42.000A free standing, forty meter long, metallic, Tic Tac shaped object approximately what 50 60 meters below the ground in a huge big open corridor an atrium come on like this this is a remarkable climb it's a crazy video and he goes deep into the history of people talking about these sites and even ancient explorers who wrote about visiting Egypt would talk about how it was even more spectacular
01:45:13.000underground here it is this is how do you say his name Petrie yeah he's he's written a lot because he was like one of the first people in Flanders Petrie.
01:46:07.000In short, all the temples of the east of Thebes, and I'm sorry if I'm butchering these names, folk, and one of the largest of the West Bank might be placed together in the one area in the ruins of Hawara.
01:46:24.000Here we certainly have a site worthy of the renown which the Labyrinth acquired.
01:46:30.000So this is an ancient explorer who's talking about he actually got into this area.
01:46:37.000The problem now is it's all submerged.
01:46:40.000So it's been flooded and it's very difficult to do any kind of archaeological work on it now.
01:46:48.000Yeah, because he was one of the first people in.
01:47:25.000Is this like what happened when Cataclysms took place?
01:47:28.000They said, Well, listen, we need to develop a way to survive these things, let's get underground.
01:47:33.000And there's so many all over the world as well.
01:47:35.000There's, like, people are always, well, ancient people, people are always building underground construction, and we can't explain how they did it, who did it, or why they did it today.
01:47:44.000And again, no one, well, no one in the mainstream really looks into that.
01:47:48.000Yeah, that site in Turkey, wasn't it supposed to house like two thousand people?
01:49:03.000Do you know it's coming and that's how you build it?
01:49:05.000No, you didn't know it's coming unless it happens regularly and they realize the only way to survive it is to get underground.
01:49:12.000Well, I guess you could, you know, it could be the remnants of an earlier culture that was wiped out and then they had like a memory of maybe passed down three minutes.
01:52:27.000Like what tool are you carving stone with to make a giant cave.
01:52:32.000One particular cave stands out for its detailed carvings of dragons, animals, people, and figures, closely resembling the eight immortals from Taoist mythology.
01:52:40.000These depictions suggest a deep connection to Taoism.
01:52:43.000Whether these carvings were a part of the original structure or added later after the caves were rediscovered in 1992 remains a topic of debate.
01:52:51.000After close examining of the carvings and noticing of unique method used to chip away the rock for these images, it seems likely that they were added later, perhaps turning the cave into a sacred place reflecting the religious beliefs at the time.
01:53:04.000Oh, so some gross people carved into it in 1992.
01:53:11.000That's so crazy that you did that guys because that's probably what people have done throughout time.
01:53:16.000I bet that's, you know, probably the people that put their dead body in the pyramid.
01:53:20.000Yeah, and that's the thing with all the other things in Egypt is they've people have carved hieroglyphics onto there, but that doesn't mean that that's when the original thing was built.
01:53:27.000Can you go back to the video, please, Jamie, of that site so we could see like what it looks like when you're walking around in it?
01:53:34.000Because the fact that they don't really know who made it and the fact that these farmers found it in 1994, when you see the scope of it, that's where it really star sets in.
01:54:24.000I mean, let's say maybe they're trying to make the carvings to make it seem like it was older and people would come wonder and just come look and it'd be a tourist attraction.
01:54:31.000Like maybe without art they didn't think it would get enough people to visit.
01:54:35.000I think it's also to kind of connect it to kind of, you know, more like contemporary cultural China rather than because, I mean, who knows how old this could be.
01:55:10.000I can't remember, but they found like a little bit of it and they were like, ah, this is clearly just some, like, you know, contemporary Bronze Age society.
01:55:38.000Survey conducted by archaeologists from Istanbul University and the University of Chicago found some flint and limestone artefacts, but they didn't perceive the site as anything more than a medieval cemetery.
01:56:16.000The whole like five percent excavation thing is so popular puzzling at Gabekli Tepe because, I mean, to be clear, that's kind of how that's like normal practice, I think, for archaeology.
01:56:25.000But you would think that Gabekli Tepe is like a bit more of a special case.
01:57:46.000I mean, there's so many different things that they've found in Turkey now that's starting to lean people to think that maybe that spot, maybe we've, you know, there was probably a bunch of places like that in the Middle East where civilization had sort of emerged from whatever had happened before.
01:58:44.000Yeah, I mean, whatever you think about him, he was right about the trees.
01:58:47.000And the fact that they had these people kind of coming out defending the trees and saying the trees were good for archaeological sites just Yeah, I don't know what Jimmy has a degree in, if anything, but he clearly knows a lot about ancient history and he's really interested in it.
01:59:02.000Like if you watch his videos and he constantly gets smeared with all sorts of different horrible claims that he's this and he's that.
01:59:10.000It's like, if you watch his videos, you know that's not true.
01:59:14.000He's just a guy who is very fascinated and deeply informed on a lot of the timelines of all these different things and how interesting they are.
01:59:23.000And he likes to make videos of them and that's a good thing.
01:59:27.000Why shouldn't he be allowed to speculate?
01:59:48.000It's very interesting, because it's also, he talks about how Platon would talk about the mountains to the north and the river to the south.
02:00:26.000There's something about that that's weird.
02:00:29.000It's also weird if you look at it from a satellite perspective, the satellite imagery where you get to see where it all looks like it's been washed over by water.
02:01:01.000Like, we can't, are we going to ignore all of them as myth?
02:01:06.000Well, the idea that myth doesn't hold any kind of use in understanding the past is just ridiculous because the myth is powerful because it's the thing we've collectively remembered as a species, isn't it?
02:01:17.000So why would we dismiss that as a kind of, you know, historical record?
02:01:22.000And then you've got examples of like indigenous cultures that, I always go to this example of these kind of islanders during the tsunami in 2004.
02:01:36.000And they went, it was the Andaman Islands and the kind of, you know, western scientists or whatever went to the island after the Boxing Day tsunami and they were like, oh, everyone's going to be dead.
02:01:46.000Like, they're all going to be wiped out by the tsunami.
02:01:49.000And they were fine because they had this myth in their culture that when the sea recedes, you get to high ground because then the waves are going to come that will eat men.
02:01:58.000And that myth, you know, that has encoded scientific information regarding tsunamis and that saved their culture's lives.
02:02:05.000And they had like no casualties compared to, you know, western or modern people who.
02:02:14.000Yeah, and they would get fucking killed.
02:02:16.000And then these people with their myths, scientific information, survived.
02:02:20.000There's a guy who was hiking in Russia when the most recent tsunami hit and he was on a cliff and you see the ocean come in and like reach the top of the cliff where his dog is.
02:04:20.000No one will remember that in five years.
02:04:23.000No one will remember that in ten years.
02:04:25.000But if a fucking comet slams into the ocean right there or slams into a glacier, a comet the size of, you know, a few city blocks, that's a rap.
02:05:07.000We look at the Tunguska impact, and that was the same sort of comet storm that we passed through at the same time of year, and it flattened like this enormous.
02:05:19.000chunk of Siberia that still doesn't have trees on it.
02:07:15.000But there's a lot of words that that I didn't know how to say.
02:07:18.000Cappadocia, home to several clusters of tracks.
02:07:21.000The discovery of these ruts around the world has sparked debate regarding their purpose, age, and origins in Malta, especially due to the proximity of the tracks to megalithic structures and the fact that some are now submerged beneath the sea.
02:07:34.000Yeah, I've seen some of them in Mozambique.
02:08:15.000They're definitely man-made because listen to what this says.
02:08:18.000I first saw tracks in stone, fossilized car or terrain vehicle traces, usually called cartruts, on Newgate plantation surfaces, peniplene in Figrian.
02:08:46.000And according to age analysis of nearby volcanic rocks, had middle Miocene age of 12 to 14 million years.
02:08:55.000Yes, so this is Turkey, not Malta, but again, I mean, you've got these cartruts that look like, you know, some sort of track and it's millions of years old and then you just find that wheel nearby.
02:09:13.000Coltepin holds, okay, the region that Dr. Coltepin has studied is relatively obscure with guidebooks offering little to no information about it.
02:09:21.000While mainstream researchers argue that the tracks are merely petrified remnants of old cart ruts left by wheeled vehicles pulled by donkeys or camels, Coltepin holds a different perspective.
02:09:33.000Rejecting these conventional explanations, he stated firmly, I will never accept it.
02:09:38.000I will always remember many other inhabitants of our planet wiped from our history.
02:09:45.000His research suggested a deeper, perhaps forgotten history of Earth and its past civilizations.
02:10:14.000Coltepin theorizes that the civilization responsible for driving these heavy vehicles likely built the numerous identical roads, ruts, and underground complexes scattered across the Mediterranean region more than 12 million years ago.
02:10:30.000He acknowledges that petrification can occur relatively quickly, but points to the heavy mineral deposits on the tracks and signs of erosion as evidence of a much older timeline.
02:10:42.000He also connects these tracks to surrounding underground cities, irrigation systems, and wells, which he believes are millions of years old.
02:10:59.000On his website, Coltipin wrote, oh, I'm not fucking his name out.
02:11:03.000We are dealing with extremely tough, lithified, petrified sediments covered with a thick layer of weathering that takes millions of years to develop, full of multiple cracks with newly developed minerals in them, which could only emerge in periods of high tectonic activity.
02:11:43.000So you've got this fossilized wheel and was printed in a sandstone of the roof.
02:11:53.000Guys, drifters, tried to cut away the find with the pickhammers and try to take it out to the surface, but sandstone was so strong and firm, and having been afraid to damage a print, they have left it in place.
02:12:07.000At present, the mine is closed, and access to the object is impossible.
02:12:12.000The equipment, dismantled, and the given layers are already flooded.
02:12:22.000I think it was something to do with, like, just I don't think it's like some conspiracy like hide the wheel, hide the wheel, but I mean, maybe you would, but I think it's more just like the practice of what they would they would finish their mining thing and they found this wheel, they weren't going to excavate the wheel because they were like, Bro, if that's a real wheel, if someone can carve that out of there and realize, like, if scientists look at it, if they get a 3D scan of it and they go, Okay, we have to completely rethink everything.
02:12:50.000If something had a wheel twelve million years ago.
02:13:00.000I mean, it would be like the Silurian hypothesis, it would be another, it wouldn't be human unless you mean you'd have to radically rewrite everything if that was right but what does that mean then like what are we talking about like different intelligence some other species so maybe there was something like us that lived like medieval humans yeah because millions of years ago it's the same problems like we have like if they're living on earth they're dealing with the same kind of physics they you know they have to move materials around like why would you not come up with the same kind of thing like a wheel like it's a simple invention that's
02:13:31.000what's interesting too and we're always finding new dinosaurs like that's a common thing yeah and if these were a type of human being or something similar to human beings, they bury their dead.
02:14:10.000I don't think they directly lead to, like, Derenkuyu or anything, but they're they're nearby.
02:14:13.000And then so then you start to think, what if Derenkuyu is like, you know, to be fair., I think that's probably man made, but it's stone, so.
02:14:22.000Well, I'm sure it's man made, but like what kind of man?
02:14:25.000And it could have been man adapted, it could have already been something there, and we kind of changed it.
02:14:32.000That would be completely fucked if we found out there was another type of human that existed that did all that 12 million years ago.
02:14:39.000Well, it wouldn't even have to be a human, it could be any kind of life, it's just intelligence.
02:14:44.000Right, but there's no evidence that anything other than primates have been that capable of manipulating their environment other than primates, right?
02:19:05.000The artifact, the London hammer is a metal hammerhead with a wooden handle found partially encased in a concretion, hard, compact mass of mineral matter.
02:19:14.000The claim some have interpreted the hammer's presence in the rock as evidence of advanced ancient civilizations or a young earth pointing to the seemingly anomalous placement of a modern looking tool in ancient rock.
02:19:26.000Evidence against antiquity radiocarbon dating of the wooden handle has placed its origin within the historical period, not millions of years.
02:19:34.000Geological processes, the concretion itself is not necessarily ancient.
02:19:50.000While the concept of out of place artifacts can be intriguing, the London hammer doesn't meet the criteria of being considered an out of place artifact as his geological context and dating suggest a more recent origin.
02:20:02.000You know, one of the things that I always go to with Egypt is those really bizarre looking things that almost look like a part of a machine, like a that wheel thing.
02:21:39.000It's probably just one of many different tools that were missing from back then, if that is just their stuff for making what they call beer.
02:21:47.000Brian Mararescu is the guy who wrote The Immortality Key.
02:21:50.000I don't know if you ever read any of his stuff, but a lot of it is about ancient Greece and the Ileucinian mysteries.
02:22:25.000technological advanced society is disconnected from that because it's illegal disconnected from the stars as well disconnected from light pollution yeah and we're just all kind of rushing around in this really hectic life of just like you know gotta do this gotta do this and just not sitting back and kind of appreciating what was that?
02:22:43.000This is from an unknown author and read it.
02:23:18.000So you're talking about something that is going into extremely hard rock and looks like it has some extremely hard tip that can cut that rock.
02:23:32.000These are engineers that are saying this kind of thing.
02:23:34.000And the problem is that archeologists and Egyptologists are all a certain type of person that don't have the expertise in recognizing machined artefacts.
02:23:45.000Also, they're dorks and they don't connect with people because they're so arrogant in the way they talk about these things that it freaks people out and it makes them not want to listen.
02:23:57.000This is, I think, the thing that frustrates them the most about alternative historians like Graham Hancock.
02:24:14.000And he's more popular than them as well.
02:24:16.000Yes, that's what drives them nuts, but what it should be exciting to them because it's it's stimulating people's desire to know where we come from.
02:24:26.000And that's supposed to be your business.
02:24:28.000That's supposed to be what you're into.
02:24:30.000And all he's doing is asking questions and like putting forward a thing.
02:24:32.000I don't think Graham would ever claim to be, you know, certain or to.
02:24:38.000Or to he's just saying this could be possible, you know?
02:24:41.000Yeah, he's got some ideas that I think are a big stretch.
02:24:45.000And then he's got some ideas that I think are dead on the head.
02:25:53.000Like high school girls like talking shit about each other in chat messages you know or high school boys they do the same thing but it's or grown men do it obviously and these guys are just like that there's but it's also i think some of these guys are socially stunted because they've they spent so much time with their head in academia and their head in books that they don't realize the rest of the world sees that behavior in a very transparent way.
02:26:20.000If you're acting like a bitch online and all you do is say mean things about people, that's not, you're not hiding what you are.
02:26:32.000every reasonable person sees that and instantaneously knows what's going on.
02:26:41.000You're calling people racist because they're questioning the timeline of human civilization based on evidence, based on really bizarre things that no one can explain, based on water erosion on rocks.
02:27:01.000But it's it's it's done by people that are socially stunted and they don't understand that most normal rational people who see them behave this way are never going to listen to them again.
02:27:15.000By doing this bitchy thing, you have discounted your own participation in any true, like, intellectual discourse.
02:27:23.000Because everybody knows you're a bad faith actor now.
02:28:13.000Imagine with Harry in the math department when you've been shitting on his string theory and now it finds out, oh, look, look who's wrong about the timeline.
02:28:39.000And often like these people, this is like, you know, the thing that they've worked on and the kind of biggest success they've had in their lives.
02:29:06.000Bob is going to just like write a note and blow his brains out yeah but i mean i don't know i just i hope that things are going to shift over time and over the next few decades we're going to see a bit one funeral at a time i guess so that is the max plank quote isn't it but i hope it doesn't have to take that long and i wish people would shift their positions man because well again i think new people coming in it's like a lot of things you know new people come in they have new ideas and the old dinosaurs yeah but i think it's I don't know,
02:29:36.000our adherence to these ideas has kind of distorted our understanding of history and has kind of prevented us for looking for things because, you know, we assume that these things are shit, sorry.
02:33:11.000Do show me how you can make that, where you can scan it and you see the tissue and the ligaments and the tendons and the cartilage and the joints, and they're not human-shaped.
02:34:15.000I mean, South America is just, you know, it's, I think South America and Egypt slash Turkey are the two kind of areas that are the most kind of, you know, mysterious.
02:34:24.000And like there's so much going on there that I think we haven't quite acknowledged how much mystery there is still left.
02:35:13.000The idea that you have something that looks like us that doesn't have opposable thumbs, like Yeah, that's like a big evolutionary kind of a contagion.
02:36:14.000And you don't hear in the New York Times, you're not seeing in the New York Post, it's not in the Wall Street Journal, but they might have actually found a life form in mummified form that's not us, that looks a lot like these fucking aliens that people have been talking about since the beginning of time.
02:36:31.000And why is no one talking about it except for Jesse?
02:36:59.000Again, anybody who tells you that we know it all, they're full of shit.
02:37:04.000If that's real, you don't know anything.
02:37:08.000If that's real, if that becomes mainstream, if this is from Jesse, and I hope it does, and they do genetic testing on this thing and then someone figures out what it is and it's got different chromosomes than us and different DNA than us, like, now what?
02:40:03.000what happened with the records or what happened, but they do know that the guy who carried it physically died of a horrible bacterial infection that they could not cure.
02:40:11.000They said it smelled like sulfur and it had three fingers and three toes.
02:40:20.000and this whatever this creature was that is you know mummified it looks exactly like what these people were talking about from this ufo crash in virginia brazil like it's a it's the entire folklore of the town they have a ufo when you enter into the town of virginia they have like this giant statue of There's still people alive to this day that live in that town that will tell you the story.
02:40:47.000And you can go across town, you can go here.
02:41:00.000Whatever this crash site was, they bring in the movie moment, movie, excuse me, movie moment of contact, they bring this police officer to the site and he starts weeping.
02:41:09.000Like if that guy's, if he's a liar, he's the greatest actor of all time.
02:41:13.000The guy starts freaking out when he starts telling the story of what he found in the 1990s.
02:42:16.000If you're terrified of something and you think you've decided that it's a demon because it's actually an advanced life form from somewhere else and it smells like sulfur, like whatever they have that got on this guy's skin that gave him this horrible bacterial infection, it's all documented.
02:45:20.000I mean, if you've mastered gravity to the point where you create like a bubble around everything you are and you travel through it without any resistance whatsoever.
02:45:27.000And they've clocked things going underwater that are going like 500 knots underwater.
02:45:35.000Well, it's all kind of, it's like this, I mean, you probably know more about this than me, but my only exposure to the kind of UAP thing was, was traditionally through, I'm a big fan of Blink 182 and there's Tom DeLong.
02:46:15.000But I do have to say that if I wanted, if I was the government and I wanted to spread a bunch of crazy stories about UFOs, I'd tell them to people like Tom.
02:46:43.000I think the if I was in charge and if I had done the Halputoff thing, you know what the Halputoff was assigned to do.
02:46:52.000So they gave him a numerical value for all these different things that would be positively influenced by disclosure and negatively influenced.
02:47:01.000And you assign a value, one through ten, to like what's going to happen to religion, what's going to happen to politics, banking, all that stuff.
02:47:08.000And this was during the Bush administration.
02:47:10.000So Bush essentially said to Hal Putoff, the Bush administration said, we have been working on a crash retrieval program.
02:47:19.000We have vehicles that are not from this world.
02:47:57.000The complete lack of any real faith in authority figures.
02:48:04.000Like why would you listen to the president of the United States when there's fucking UFOs reading your mind and traveling instantaneously here from wherever they're from?
02:48:15.000Like all of our systems of power and control, they all go away.
02:48:20.000Because we don't you're not in control anymore.
02:48:56.000Every organization has great people and a bunch of clowns and a bunch of nutty people that don't want to lose their positions of power and these little struggles, inter office bullshit in every organization with human beings.
02:49:08.000So for sure, that's the same thing with UFO disclosure.
02:49:12.000And then I think there's also the problem with if there really is a crash retrieval program and it's been going on for a long time and it's been going on without congressional oversight.
02:49:21.000That means you've been lying and you've been misappropriating money.
02:49:28.000So what's the best way to, like, you gotta slowly trickle out the information and you gotta mix it up with a whole lot of bullshit, a whole lot of nonsense and then fly some drones over people and see how they respond.
02:49:41.000There was something recently about that, wasn't it?
02:50:33.000All I can't remember is Mike Benz saying that this has happened a couple of years in a row and they were waiting for it to happen this year.
02:51:40.000And there's probably some like this is people that have gone to S4 and talked about it.
02:51:47.000You can't, it's all anecdotal, so you never really know if they're telling the truth.
02:51:50.000But there have been people that have no reason to lie that say that they have technology that is forty, fifty years past anything that you can imagine right now.
02:52:13.000I mean, why would they tell us what the most advanced thing they have is they wouldn't they wouldn't that's not going to be public information is it?
02:52:58.000It's really informative and interesting and speculative and fascinating because I just love the subject and I think you just do a great job.
02:53:06.000So I hope you get a lot of views and you keep doing it.
02:53:09.000And I'm glad that you're doing it and I'm really glad that you came here.
02:53:30.000I'm Michael Button and I'm on YouTube, I guess and they'll probably find me if I'm doing my job correctly that's me on the screen Michael Button won Michael Button won yeah there's someone else out there who's got my name yeah so don't go to Michael Button I'm not gonna go to Michael Button won that seems so silly yeah Fuck the other Michael Button come to me.