In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast, I sit down with one of the best pool players in the world, Ephron Reyes. We talk about his career, how he got started in the game, and why he thinks he's the best player of all time.
00:01:25.000I mean, this guy on my shirt, he certainly gets the, as far as the greatest of all time, most achievements of all time, Effront, the Z shot, like all the crazy stuff that he could pull off with a cue ball.
00:01:35.000Did you see the shot that I made recently?
00:02:37.000And the game that you guys are playing right now, the reason why I said I think if you're the best player today, you're the best player of all time, because the conditions are very different.
00:02:45.000For people who don't know, who don't play pool, okay?
00:02:48.000If you're going to a regular bar and you're playing on like a bar table, those pockets might be five and a half inches.
00:02:55.000Well, also in US people are playing on seven foot tables.
00:03:03.000And so when you get two cue balls, you try to put them next to each other and try to stick, you can't even get close to sticking them in a four four inch pocket.
00:05:38.000Apparently – and this was told to me by someone who I really trust.
00:05:42.000Obama was having a meeting with someone in – And he's in the middle of having this meeting with someone who he's met before and had conversations with before.
00:05:55.000And then they inform him, Mr. President, we just want to let you know this is not who you think you're talking to.
00:06:02.000And we just wanted to demonstrate how good the special effects makeup is and masks are.
00:09:44.000Well, you got to play that's weird that you if you're not a citizen, but still you get to play for the Mosconi Cup.
00:09:49.000Well, Metroom Metroom changed the rules, you know, as soon as I got the green card and I wasn't able to play in any official tournaments back then.
00:11:40.000Well, I'm glad that just, you know, Metro went out of their own way to make an offer to me and say, you know, you can represent the United States.
00:11:48.000And at the time, we were playing the US Open in Atlantic City two years ago.
00:12:46.000You know, there's a thing in pool., it gets when people play a lot and are people really into pool, it's almost like that's the only thing that matters.
00:12:57.000The only thing that matters is how good you play.
00:12:59.000You know, there was a, do you ever read that book, McGurdy?
00:13:02.000It was a Robert Burns book about a guy who lived during the depression who was a billiard hustler, traveled around the country.
00:13:10.000There was a scene in it where they were looking at the television and Nixon was on TV and he goes, look at that guy, President of the United States and he can't make a ball.
00:13:26.000Yeah, in the poo world, that really means something.
00:13:29.000Like, if you can't play at all, like, it's a fucking president, you can't even play.
00:13:34.000Like, it's real it's weird so if you come to america all that they care about is if you since it's a melting pot already and then it's like all they care about is how good you play and you play pretty good so far people just take in so far well you're playing better now than ever before and you're like 25 25 yeah come on man you're not even in your prime no yeah i think i'm not in my prime i think uh you know i'm
00:14:04.000getting better every year i think so you were you the mass The match that you had with that Filipino gentleman before the match in the finals, what is that guy's name?
00:14:19.000So in that match, I was watching some of those outs and I was like, Jesus, like, it doesn't get better pool than that, like four inch pockets, tight competition, a really good player, a lot of pressure, everybody's there, single elimination at that point.
00:17:57.000you're as long as you stay down on the shot, the shot clock doesn't that's good too.
00:18:02.000other thing that's brutal is the beeps oh yeah dude dude when it gets down to five seconds before you got to pull it and you pull the trigger on a nine ball with one second to go oh yeah i was watching i was like oh my god i would i would be having a heart attack right now i almost had almost had masconic up is definitely when it comes to pressure it's the highest pressure you can ever everyone's screaming and cheering everyone's screaming for people that haven't seen it before most pool tournaments are very very
00:18:32.000respectful people will clap after you make an out or you sometimes in the middle of a game, like if you make a really good shot they'll clap, if you get a great position they'll clap, but as soon as you drop down to shoot the next ball, everybody gets quiet.
00:18:52.000They would be super loud and you have a super tough nine ball and everybody would like, for example, you're playing UK and 95% of the crowd is Europeans, so everybody's cheering for Europe.
00:19:04.000So let's say I'm on the tough nine ball and everybody's loud and then everybody would go like shh shh and everybody would go quiet just in a second and it's really, really tough to pull the trigger in that situation.
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00:21:00.000Yeah, let's talk about that because one thing that happened is there's a rule where you're not allowed to soft break, but soft breaking is basically very subjective.
00:21:09.000Like a referee can decide to call someone on it or not call someone on it.
00:21:13.000And you thought this guy was soft breaking.
00:23:07.000You have to have the most insane, smooth delivery.
00:23:11.000And again, what a mind fuck because you're about to – you're trying to hit this one ball square on the face and you're throwing all of your might into it.
00:23:34.000I like to break with softer speed and with with more control but he he just whacks them so what do you think would be like a reasonable mile per hour that you would impose where you'd say anything slower than that is soft breaking.
00:25:33.000I just think he's not, he's hasn't had anyone lay it out to him like, like the way you just did with me, where you explained it to me to me.
00:25:40.000This is the first time that I had someone explaining to me that particular break.
00:26:18.000The fun thing to me about your life is that you're traveling all over the world playing and then occasionally you have these marathon gambling sessions that they stream online.
00:26:30.000And I've got a good buddy of mine, Tommy.
00:26:34.000from Connecticut shout out to my boy Tommy and you know he and I will like be texting to each other you know like for three days in a row while these matches are going on and I get so juiced up for him I get so excited about him but it's like that's the part of the game that has always been the most romantic the gambling part of the game and I'm glad that people aren't shying away from that because there was long,
00:26:59.000for a long time, Gambling was thought to be negative for professional pool.
00:27:23.000Our matches that we make, there's only a couple of them that we did.
00:27:27.000We played twice with Shane and there's also a few one pocket matches we did, but the biggest ones were with Shane and it's only a small group of people.
00:27:36.000It's basically just a few guys., my managers, me, and the same thing from Shane's side, so everybody knows each other.
00:28:37.000Because you're the best player in the world and you're getting better.
00:28:39.000That's one of the coolest things to me about any game or any sport, anything, is that, and especially today, because there's so much data that's available.
00:28:49.000Like, say if you're a young player and you're learning how to play, you can watch pool on your iPad till 3 o'clock in the morning.
00:28:59.000You learn like what why did he do it that way?
00:29:02.000Like, oh, and then you rewind it and you go, oh, that none of that was available to like Mike Siegel back in the day or Nick Varner or those guys.
00:29:09.000Yeah, there's tons of videos on YouTube.
00:29:11.000There's so much, so much, so much information.
00:29:14.000Yeah, and you can also, I mean, you can also watch it on TV.
00:29:17.000I think Metro, Metro has shown all those tournaments, all of the majors on TV everywhere except US, I think.
00:29:25.000And so it's just like everything else, with the new generation, the level just gets higher and higher with everything unless there's physical limitations and with pool it doesn't seem like it's not like you know running a four minute mile or you know running the fastest we're all crooked all of our backs are crooked oh yeah for sure you know we're always bend over it's always one-sided sport every one-sided sport is kind of like that i think archery's like that archery golf yeah shooting yeah Yeah,
00:30:55.000Did you ever get one of those things that I was talking about?
00:30:58.000Those decompression things where you put your head in a harness and you pull on the door, you set it on your door and you get like hanging by it a little?
00:31:17.000Because you get to a certain age and everyone's back is just like you're carrying all this weight your whole life and your back just gets smushed in your pockets.
00:31:26.000Your posture starts to suck and then you start to get these weird pains and decompression.
00:31:31.000And if you could do it and just be real vigilant with it, you can stop a lot of problems dead in their tracks.
00:31:59.000Then 20, 22, I'm practicing the same, but I always leave the pool hole with some type of pain and I don't want to go practicing the next day because of that.
00:32:09.000Do you the problem is it's hard to get access to a cold plunge when you're on the road.
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00:35:56.000Gambling problem call 1800 gambler in New York call 8778 Hope and Wire text Hope and Y 467369 in Connecticut help is available for problem gambling call 8887897777 or visit ccpg dot org Please play responsibly.
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00:40:04.000A lot of players wear lenses when they play.
00:40:07.000But LASIK has been the game changer for them, for sure.
00:40:11.000Now, are these young players that are coming up, are these guys embracing a healthier lifestyle?
00:40:17.000Because one of the things about pool is like it's always been connected, at least when I was young, it was always connected to, especially the gambling, connected to a lot of partying., a lot of amphetamines, Cocaine and then, you know, just Well, it's just changing.
00:40:35.000It used to be just a game played at the bar.
00:40:38.000You know, I think now in the US, everybody's taking the European approach, more methodical, more disciplined, and they treat it as a sport.
00:41:21.000But without the promotions, like putting these events on and making them a big deal, they wouldn't get all over YouTube, it wouldn't get all over these social media sites.
00:41:29.000But what pool really needs is something.
00:41:32.000Like they had The Hustler in the 1960s made pool explode.
00:41:36.000And then they had The Color of Money in the 1980s made pool explode.
00:42:45.000You know, like you're standing on ice, so you're kind of freaked out that you're standing on ice and then you use a drill to drill through the ice and then you know exactly how much is separating you from drowning.
00:42:56.000So you only need a few inches, but when I was doing it was about seven, eight inches of ice.
00:45:05.000So Top Golf, you know, where they have this thing where you just whack the balls out into the well, they're going to set something like that up for pool where they have, you know, some sort of a business where you go in and play pool and it's more attractive to young people.
00:45:22.000I don't know exactly what their model is because it's still going to be pool.
00:45:25.000I mean, I don't think it's going to be a bunch of people just breaking the balls.
00:45:35.000I don't know exactly what their idea is, but the same guys who they realize.
00:45:38.000like a lot of people play pool, a lot of people play pool in bars, and if we had a really attractive place for people to play, and it's probably correct, it's probably an untapped business.
00:45:48.000Because people are always looking for something fun to do on date nights.
00:45:51.000So what they do in China, for example, or somewhere, I've seen it in Asia, they put like a projector above the table, and it gives you like all kinds of different games and interactions while you're playing.
00:46:03.000The venue, which is being backed by investors, including US based venture capital firm Sharp Alpha Advisors and the Daily Mail investment arm, DMG Ventures uses pool tables, balls, and cues from the traditional game, but adds tracking technology and video projections to add bonus targets and obstacles in an attempt to appeal to larger groups.
00:46:25.000Alongside its own venues and those operated by franchise partners, it's called Poolhouse.
00:46:30.000Poolhouse plans to sell its equipment to pubs, bars, and other venues that want to update their existing pool tables.
00:46:37.000Hopefully they can create a speed gun too.
00:46:40.000Yeah, so it says Steve, I don't know how to say his name, Jalif Jalifi, Jalifi said, more people play at Top Golf than on traditional golf courses in the U.S., and we aim to make an even greater impact on the world of pool.
00:47:03.000Well, if you get a bunch of guys that are already really successful at doing that with the thing about golf though, is like, whacking a golf ball is really fun.
00:47:13.000You know, it's and then if you have like a big open pit where you can just whack a golf ball, you got like 100 yards, you can see how far people can whack a golf ball, and then you got a net at the end of it.
00:49:16.000boxing and that involves snooker and pool right so they have the snooker tournament in Saudi they have the boxing event going on in Saudi Arabia you gotta get that oil money involved son yeah those those Those dudes throw some money around.
00:49:28.000because it's like when people talk about the richest people in the world, they're like, really?
00:51:18.000And yeah, that's definitely the highlight of my career.
00:51:21.000You know, making that tough eight ball.
00:51:23.000I mean, it wasn't tough, but the positional play was tough because I had to go up and down with the keyball and I landed right where I wanted to be.
00:51:32.000So I was straight on the nine ball, no pressure at all.
00:51:34.000That's a good one for people to watch it.
00:52:58.000I think when you get a guy who's really good, who plays, you know, I think it's really difficult when it comes to like how difficult is it to execute the shot because the balls are smaller.
00:54:00.000If you look at the major that matchroom have, look at the last 64, the last 32, you will have, you know, 20 different countries represented.
00:54:08.000So that's interesting that snooker is bigger.
00:54:35.000And they make, I would say, the top top.
00:54:39.000guys they make over two three million a year do you remember the scandal there was a scandal with one of the players a few years back where they got him on hidden camera saying that he'd be willing to dump a match oh yeah there was a lot of Chinese guys that got banned for it too oh really for dumping a match that's the problem with gambling yeah right when gambling gets involved and you realize like if you get your friends to bet on the other guy That's the problem with,
00:55:06.000I guess, getting the bookies to be involved in tournaments as well.
00:55:10.000Because when the prize money are not big, you will have players thinking, you know, winning the tournament is is nice, but I don't have to win that.
00:55:18.000I could just lose my round one, go through to the lower side and take a free shot and drop 10,000 real fast.
00:55:44.000But when you the difference between like winning and losing is so huge and then you can gamble on it and then you have friends and you tell your friends like listen.
00:56:35.000Like they're they're like the the outcasts of society.
00:56:41.000You know, if you go and you watch like the finals of the Florida Open and look in the crowd, there's a lot of outcasts in there, a lot of Android phones.
00:58:55.000I mean, listen, obviously there's examples of people that keep it together that are really good that still have a family and, but, and, you know, spend time with their family and spend time with their kids, but you're going to have to manage your time because you're going to have to you have to get those hours in if you're not playing like legitimately realistically if you want to be a top flight world-class player what is the minimum amount of hours you think you have to play every day i think somebody said that you have to spend 10 000 hours to get good at anything but
00:59:25.000i think in pool it probably is more yeah i think it's probably a little more because it's It's really complex.
00:59:36.000Yeah, because if you're talking about like top, top professional player, it's not just practicing.
00:59:40.000You know, you will have to start traveling and playing tournaments.
00:59:44.000You will have to start playing and sparing with somebody.
01:02:35.000That's the guy who just won the last three tournaments, which is so nuts about this sport is that if the guy's winning and it's winter break, you might not ever play.
01:02:51.000You know, I'm missing and so I don't play.
01:02:53.000You know, I'm missing and I don't play.
01:02:54.000You know, like, but at a world c class level when you're doing that in the US Open And it's on TV and people are cheering every time you pocket a nine ball.
01:05:57.000I know that the industry went to carbon fibers maybe four or five years ago and maybe some companies were kind of like pushing the players.
01:06:09.000But I don't think that's the case now.
01:06:12.000Because now, for example, I find it maybe advantageous to play with a wooden shaft when you're playing in like a sticky, sticky pool room in Asia where the humidity level is super high.
01:06:41.000I think when we play, for example, Metroid tournaments, everything is brand new cloth, brand new rails, brand new balls, everything slick, perfect conditions, then I think carbon fiber is perfect.
01:06:52.000But I think that's the reason why the Asians prefer wood as well, because the humidity level is just over top.
01:07:03.000And that's what they used to play back in the day, I guess, and that's what they refer to this day.
01:07:08.000It's such a mindfuck though, isn't it?
01:07:10.000Because it's like, it's all really what you have confidence with.
01:07:13.000Obviously, anybody could play really good with carbon fiber, or anybody rather, who can play really good with carbon fiber, could play really good with wood.
01:07:20.000It's just get it into your head, what this cue does, the way it feels, the kind of deflection it has.
01:07:27.000You put it in the brain computer after X amount of months of playing with that Q and you know what it does.
01:07:32.000Yeah, I've been, you know, I've been experimenting with Qs.
01:07:35.000Maybe not as much as you did, but I've started testing Qs for the company that I was working with right now, 766.
01:07:45.000we've been doing testing for three years so i know everything about like the foams the wall thickness what the material of the feral the hardness of your tip the weight the balance so there's so many different things that will change the way the shaft plays and then there's also but there's so many different things it's like a magic wand you know yeah you have to try you have to try so many things before you actually understand what you like and what you're looking for.
01:08:13.000And it's not an easy process, I would say.
01:08:17.000I remember I was going on one of my rucking hikes where I put a weighted vest on and I go for a walk with the dog and you and I were on the phone.
01:08:29.000Because I was walking through this wooded area and you were telling me that the difference between your old cue and your new cue, you said there's a difference of about five percent.
01:08:44.000Like, how do you know it's five percent?
01:08:46.0005% you're like all the ball balls that I've pocketed when I when I think about what it does and what it doesn't do I think my game is about 5% off I'm like that.
01:08:54.000I think I think actually with the new cue I was winning a lot more so I used to I used to put this was like right when you first changed yeah yeah well since then since then I was winning yeah so I guess I guess it was the truth Well it's you made it to your specifications.
01:09:17.000I do prefer a longer taper, which doesn't really exist on the market.
01:09:21.000So I created the chef with a longer taper, especially for the che shots like off the rail, let's say one the cue ball is one diamond distance off the rail.
01:09:31.000That's where you feel that change in the taper thickness.
01:09:34.000We have the straight taper in our shaft.
01:10:09.000There's so much science behind that I don't even know where to start.
01:10:13.000Well, deflection is interesting too, because some people use it to their advantage, certain deflection, like Ko, because his Q has a lot of deflection.
01:10:20.000Didn't you say you hit some balls with it?
01:11:19.000Pressure out there and you have to pull one crazy shot and that's hill hill.
01:11:25.000So the argument with that against that would be the difference with wood is though, you get a superior feel.
01:11:32.000You do get a weird difference in the feedback of the cue and some people get very accustomed to that wood feedback and they describe a carbon feedback as more dull.
01:13:28.000Could be the case, and some players already do that.
01:13:31.000They use some cues, for example, when they stay close to the vertical center of the cue ball, they use one cue, and when they use sidespins, they use the other cue.
01:14:12.000So do you like the additional weight for like a shot where you have to really stay down?
01:14:17.000I just use it for like balance purposes for longer shots.
01:14:22.000For example, when, like I said, I'm one diamond off the rail and I have a long shot where I want to have like a long follow through, I just simply don't have enough of my Q on the back.
01:16:20.000I mean, it would have to be something we can fit in within eight to ten hours, so maybe race to th 30 in 10 ball, race to 30 in 9 ball, race to 10 in 1 pocket, and race to 10 in banks.
01:17:36.000I think the new modifications they make in the game where you have to respot the balls, for example, if you get more than four balls past the kitchen, the fifth ball gets respotted back to the spot so it makes the game more alive, more dynamic.
01:17:53.000So you don't get those wedges where 50 balls go up table and people just play nothing shots for hours.
01:18:21.000Because if you make it any shorter, it's Shorter is too difficult, but I mean, the 40 seconds, like just a touch, just a touch more to think about it.
01:18:56.000You jumped out so many times during this US Open.
01:18:59.000There were so many times you got hooked where you popped that ball.
01:19:03.000in and if you can't appreciate that on tight pockets a beautiful shot where it goes airborne and fires right into the hole and then you get positioned on the next ball yeah i think it's great i think those that are voting against it are those that can do it yeah there's a lot of old school guys who just they get set in their ways and they think that's a stupid cue it's a little tiny cue fuck that thing but Why are there different golf clubs?
01:21:04.000You just want to have the same tennis racket as Roger Federer.
01:21:07.000But don't you think there's a giant variety in the way those things hit, as opposed to the way tennis rackets hit?
01:21:13.000I don't know, because I don't play tennis, but it looks the same.
01:21:17.000Whereas, like, the way pool cues are manufactured, the differences in the weight, the differences in the taper, the differences in the shaft composition, whether it's wood or carbon fiber, or for sure.
01:21:30.000And I think when it comes down to like a playing cue, then it's really, really personal.
01:21:49.000Do you have like a mental checklist that you go through before you execute a shot?
01:21:57.000Do you have like a pre-shot mental preparation that you go through?
01:22:01.000I do a lot of breathing, breathing technique.
01:22:04.000So for example, I would breathe in on four counts, then I hold it for like four or five and then i'd breathe out for like seven or eight seconds to calm myself down do you do that when you're sitting in the chair yeah i do that all the time time when I'm sitting in the chair.
01:22:19.000Usually I would do like a loud breathe out when I'm at the table sometimes, just let it out.
01:22:25.000And I kind of started to show emotions too, because I just feel that's okay.
01:22:30.000You know, before I used to be like, you know, I can't show any emotions because it's weakness.
01:23:50.000That's just how I find it working for me.
01:23:55.000It's another thing that's very personal for other players.
01:23:58.000I think most of the people look at the cue ball first, but I just prefer the object ball works better for me.
01:24:06.000It's interesting because it is a preference thing.
01:24:08.000Yeah, so definitely a personal preference.
01:24:10.000I feel like if you have the straight stroke, if your stroke is straight, you will always hit the cue ball where you're intending to hit it.
01:24:18.000So it's more about where you're going to hit it on the object ball.
01:24:21.000There's a guy named Joel Turner who is, I don't know if I talked to you about this guy.
01:24:26.000He used to be, well, he was a sniper for rescue missions with police where someone had a hostage and he would have to execute shots under extreme pressure.
01:24:47.000And he realized that there were certain mistakes that he was making, and a lot of people are making bowhunting that had to do with anticipating the shot and anxiety before you pull the trigger, and that the way to work around that is to have a preshot routine in your mind where you're talking to yourself loudly in your head.
01:25:08.000And you develop this preshot routine with very specific things that you say to yourself.
01:28:33.000Well, there's a lot of science to that in terms of, like, studies that have been done about visualization and the improvement and they found that actual real visualization when you're really sitting down there and visualizing counts almost as much as practice and in some cases more and no one knows why well visualization is really big for us for example you're never going to win the tournament without believing that you can actually win it right and you can only believe that
01:29:03.000you can win if you can only visualize visualize that you won that tournament right Which is why I say that this is like the most mental of games.
01:29:25.000Like if I get like six hours, two or three days in a row, I can get in stroke and I start running racks.
01:29:32.000But when I'm not, and then I go to execute, there's like this thing in my head that like right when I'm about to aim at the like right when I'm about to pull the trigger, my head goes, Don't hit it there, hit it here.
01:33:18.000In this weird world of non-physical things, in this weird world of virtual things, of playing video games and of being connected with computers, which is all very, very fun, those are all really fun to do.
01:33:33.000There's a kinetic aspect to playing pool that I think a lot of people forgot how satisfying and rewarding it is and how intriguing the game is.
01:33:48.000You know, and that's why I always chime on about it.
01:35:42.000So what made that game explode in China?
01:35:45.000They were just throwing big big money in the game and it really exploded everywhere because now all the English and snooker players English hateball players and snooker players are traveling and playing all those tournaments there and maybe top 30 guys now on their tour are making good money and they are I think they are trying to get the pool players to join them as well.
01:36:08.000A lot of guys will probably do it just for the cheese.
01:37:01.000Is that because of the rounded ed edges, like you have to fire them through there.
01:37:04.000For example, if the ball is close to the rail, that's probably the best way to make the ball because you can push through the rubber.
01:37:12.000Kind of like a Russian pyramid type thing.
01:37:14.000Well, there's that one shot where in the side pockets where you can push through the nipple of the side pocket, if it's yeah, so it's like kind of the same thing, kind of.
01:37:24.000Because I watch a lot of those guys online and they fire balls in.
01:37:29.000Yeah, the competition is really, really high there because there's so many players in so many pool rooms in China that just have hay ball tables.
01:40:34.000You know, when you watch a guy shoot a ball into the corner and he hits the rail and it bounces three rails and goes into the side, it's fucked.
01:40:43.000If you're sitting there, if you're in the chair and you were hoping, Oh, he missed, it's my chance.
01:41:22.000And the pool gods do that to you all the time.
01:41:25.000If you miss a ball, it's kind of weird how oftentimes you have to sit in the chair for a few racks because the guy just getsets a bunch of really awesome lucky breaks.
01:41:55.000If some like super egghead who studies pool like Dr. Dave, like if that guy could explain this, I would like to know.
01:42:02.000Because I think there's a kind of science to it.
01:42:05.000And I think it there's a positive when you're in gear, when you can't miss, and you're in stroke, and you're firing balls and you're playing really well, you get these lucky breaks.
01:42:25.000It's like you're putting out positive energy.
01:42:28.000But when you're down and you feel like shit, and you're like, God damn it, I can't catch a break, and then the guy misses, and you're stuck behind two balls, and you're like, God damn it, this always happens.
01:42:38.000I wonder, I often wonder, did you make that?
01:44:41.000Well, that's why I wonder, that's why I wanted to ask you about your pre-shot routine.
01:44:45.000Like, what is the, what are the things you're saying to yourself in your mind?
01:44:50.000Or is it just a lot of experience and a lot of I'm gonna make that shot?
01:44:56.000Well, it's basically shutting down the negative thoughts.
01:45:00.000You know, being positive is really difficult at times, especially when things are not going your way, when the opponent is, I don't know, missing and shit saves on you or flicking a few balls or just doesn't miss any balls.
01:45:13.000It's really difficult to stay positive in your chair.
01:50:33.000But I would imagine, like, if you fell out of Russian, like, if it became uncomfortable for you and you went over there, that would be so weird for them.
01:50:46.000There's a lot of But I would, listen, if, say, like, if my daughter moved overseas and went to Spain and started speaking Spanish and then came over to America and had a hard time talking to me, I'd be like, what happened?
01:53:21.000He just got it in his head somehow or another that I was responsible for what was wrong with him, that I was a bully to him, which is crazy because all I did was point out what was like super obvious, like you're lying about being on steroids.
01:53:34.000Like, hey, don't lie about being on steroids.
01:53:37.000Don't be a public person and no one will say that.
01:53:54.000It's not, you know, I'm sure you experienced it because you experienced a lot of haters in the pool world, but fame is not what people think it's going to be.
01:54:04.000You know, you think, I'm going to be famous and life will be easier because people know who I am.
01:54:08.000No, life is going to be way harder because now you're under the microscope.
01:54:14.000And this is a guy in the Brian, he calls himself the liver king, who was not famous most of his life and then decided I want to be famous and I have this great body, so what I'm going to do is just like tell everybody they have to eat liver and sell a bunch of supplements.
01:54:29.000And he made a lot of money selling a bunch of supplements.
01:54:32.000And then he's, cannot tell the truth about steroids.
01:54:36.000The problem with that is that physique is not achievable in your 40s without some help.
01:54:52.000There's a few guys that can, but you have to have superior genetics and insane work ethic, and you have to be like really intelligent about how you approach your training.
01:55:04.000But once you get into your 40s, and if you didn't look like that when you were younger, oh, yeah, you're on something.
01:55:11.000There's nothing wrong with being on something.
01:55:14.000Like there's, here's the thing, it's like, if you want to be an influencer online, it's, it doesn't exclude you from taking, if you're a person who takes testosterone or any, even there's guys who have huge followings who are clearly on anabolic steroids.
01:55:32.000Like it doesn't make you less famous or make your, your physique less valid.
01:55:38.000No one, no one really, I mean, there's going to be a few people, oh, he's a juice head.
01:55:43.000But the reality is most people are just like, wow, that's really impressive.
01:55:48.000But what people hate is when you're misleading them, when you pretend you're doing something that you're not, especially if you're also selling supplements or selling a lifestyle and telling them about your ancestral tenets.
01:56:02.000It's just, you've got to take accountability.
01:56:17.000And no one gets upset at them it's real simple right it's just it is what it is but that you know the guys just take a lot of heat and they just he also funded i think he at least had a part in funding this netflix documentary about him which uh i didn't watch it but i heard it was not flattering at all and it made him seem kind of insane and that probably sucked and then after that he you know was mad at me but Again,
01:56:52.000And if you don't have personal sovereignty, if you don't.
01:56:57.000understand yourself, truly understand yourself, Not just trying to project an image of what you like people to think of you, but who you actually are.
01:57:07.000That's where you get in trouble with fame.
01:57:10.000And then also reading haters and reading the comments and wanting people to love you, which is probably why a lot of people get famous in the first place.
01:57:19.000It's also like the thing of getting famous as a goal versus becoming famous because of a thing you do.
01:57:30.000Like becoming famous because people like your comedy or your podcast or they like the way you play pool or the way you play basketball, like that's a different thing when you specifically go out of your way because you want to become famous.
01:58:01.000It's like they can they have private jets, they got a house here and a house there and they got a company here and a company there, but they really want to be famous.
01:58:57.000Because they're as valid, if not more valid than your own negative thoughts.
01:59:01.000Wow, there's so many different opinions.
01:59:03.000This is, for example, every time I make a, I don't know, bad decision to their opinion, you know, they will always voice it to me and say, well, sure.
01:59:13.000And you just gotta, you gotta deal with it.
01:59:16.000Yeah, or not pay attention to them, which is, I think, the best way to do it.
01:59:43.000You know, and they invite trolls to come to their gym and some of them even beat the trolls up, which is kind of crazy.
01:59:48.000You know, some guys will talk shit and they'll be so dumb that they'll actually think that they can go to the gym and, you know, spar with Sean Strickland or something.
01:59:56.000That's the worst thing you can do because that's what troll is wanting.
02:00:38.000like they probably won't then you'll be talking with them back and forth what is the most amount of money that you've ever gambled for Against Shane.
02:04:32.000So there was a lot of weirdness where he was playing for like, was it WPA said you couldn't play in a Metroom event or is that what it was?
02:06:08.000But then it just led to more, like he went on social media and tried to say, you know, he was trying to defend himself and say, you know, it wasn't, it was my dream to win that championship.
02:08:25.000You know, I think at the very top, as you see with, you know, with Aloysius Yap, he won three tournaments in a row, which is crazy.
02:08:33.000It's crazy to win like three majors in a row.
02:08:36.000But like, you know, Francisco Sanchez Ruiz went on a tear where he was doing that for a while.
02:08:41.000You can, if you look back at like the years, even like 10 years from where we're at right now, it's always one player winning tournaments for like a year or two and then switches to another player.
02:08:52.000Like Shane won back-to-back U.S. Open.
02:11:24.000But it's just when you when you think about just Just in general, like Poole's growth, I think you're in a perfect position right now in life.
02:11:39.000It's like if you had been this good 20 years ago, you would be in the same sort of trap that a lot of those – The only money that anyone was making in pool twenty, thirty years ago, real money, was in gambling.
02:11:59.000And there were a lot of guys that were making money gambling that weren't placing well in tournaments.
02:12:25.000in the right time, in the right era, with the way my career was going, because like you said, 20 years ago, I wouldn't have been nowhere.
02:12:34.000And it's also the guys, the players of today, it seems to me, correct me if I'm wrong, but they're much more systematic with their training than they ever were before.
02:13:29.000The guy's doing visualization every day.
02:13:34.000He's practicing every single day, I think.
02:13:36.000You know, he's doing his 90 minutes of hardcore practice on a pool table he's live streaming explaining why why would you have to practice and if you follow just everything he does you will get to a different level 100 yeah 100 world-class player too he's fun to watch yeah super disciplined super like a rafa rafa nadal he's a rafa nadal in pool it's fun time fun time to be a pool player and Like I said,