The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2378 - Charlie Sheen

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

00:00:03.000 The Joe Logan Experience.

00:00:09.000 All day.

00:00:12.000 Great to finally meet you, man.

00:00:14.000 It's great to meet you.

00:00:16.000 It's a trip and and you know, walking in, and I'm thinking, is there how is it possible that our paths didn't cross all those years?

00:00:25.000 I mean, it's it's it's conceivable we were in the same venue or the same building or at the same party or at least something.

00:00:32.000 I kind of avoided parties.

00:00:36.000 I I avoid basically everything.

00:00:39.000 I avoided parties.

00:00:41.000 I avoided uh premieres, any anything where there's a red carpet, uh like even if I was in a movie, I wouldn't go on the red carpet, I'd go in through the back door.

00:00:50.000 Seriously.

00:00:50.000 Yeah, I don't like it.

00:00:51.000 Wow.

00:00:52.000 I don't like all the that fucking look over here, look over here.

00:00:55.000 That is just too fake for me.

00:00:58.000 It just whatever allergy I have to that flares, and I'm like, I'm going through the back door, fuck this.

00:01:04.000 Yeah, no, I don't I don't blame you.

00:01:05.000 I don't blame you.

00:01:06.000 They they stopped um uh showing me where the back door was I I I support a similar uh entrance thing.

00:01:16.000 Um it's just too weird.

00:01:18.000 But it's that it's look over here, look over here.

00:01:20.000 It's that thing.

00:01:21.000 Something happens in that moment.

00:01:23.000 Yeah.

00:01:23.000 And I think it's like it's it it brings you as close to possibly uh uh sterilization as you can get without you know uh surgery.

00:01:32.000 I think it's bad for you.

00:01:33.000 Yeah.

00:01:34.000 I think it's legit I think it's like radiation.

00:01:36.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:01:36.000 Like you could take a little bit of it, but you know, you don't want to be working the X-ray machine your whole life.

00:01:41.000 No, no, and then there's always that one lady who keeps calling you back to her. 1.00

00:01:44.000 Oh, Charlie, Charlie.

00:01:45.000 Right, right, right.

00:01:46.000 Far left, far left, far left.

00:01:47.000 Yeah.

00:01:48.000 And you've looked at her like seven times already.

00:01:51.000 And then I'm I'm out there thinking, if it took me this many takes to get a scene right, nobody would ever hire me.

00:01:57.000 Yeah.

00:01:58.000 You wouldn't get past the first the first day.

00:02:00.000 Well, they want to get a million pictures just to get that perfect one with just a little bit of side eye to you, just a little something.

00:02:06.000 Right.

00:02:06.000 A little purse of the lips, a little something.

00:02:11.000 Like the one.

00:02:12.000 Yeah.

00:02:12.000 But then they chew which one do they always choose?

00:02:15.000 The one that's absolute dog shit.

00:02:16.000 Yeah, the one with your mouth open.

00:02:18.000 Exactly.

00:02:18.000 Or your eyes closed.

00:02:20.000 Yeah.

00:02:20.000 I d I d what I really don't like is the people who like it.

00:02:24.000 Uh not that I don't like them, is that I don't want to ever see that in myself.

00:02:29.000 And so when I would be around them, I would just go, Oh, I gotta get out of here.

00:02:33.000 Right.

00:02:34.000 Yeah, right.

00:02:34.000 Freak me out.

00:02:35.000 The trappings.

00:02:36.000 The trapping.

00:02:37.000 Yeah.

00:02:39.000 Yeah.

00:02:39.000 Um, yeah, I mean, is there because it feels like um that system's been in place for over a hundred years, right?

00:02:46.000 Is there another is there another way to do it?

00:02:49.000 Probably not.

00:02:50.000 No.

00:02:50.000 People like it.

00:02:52.000 You know, photographers like it, the press likes it, it's a big thing.

00:02:55.000 There's a lot of people, there's a lot of lights flashing, it seems legit.

00:02:58.000 Right, right, right.

00:02:59.000 Yeah.

00:03:00.000 I just um I don't I can never um feel relaxed when everybody's yelling.

00:03:05.000 Right.

00:03:06.000 You know.

00:03:06.000 It's that's just totally unnatural.

00:03:08.000 It's completely unnatural.

00:03:10.000 The only way that would be happening in real life is if like you were on trial.

00:03:14.000 You know, like you were being paraded in front of a bunch of people.

00:03:17.000 Jim, there he is.

00:03:18.000 Look over here.

00:03:20.000 You know, it's odd.

00:03:22.000 It's very odd.

00:03:23.000 Yeah, it's almost it's a form of a purpose walk, isn't it?

00:03:25.000 A little bit of a purpose and just a a little bit of uh um a mental illness exhibition.

00:03:31.000 Right.

00:03:32.000 You know?

00:03:32.000 Yeah.

00:03:33.000 I just had it for the first time um like last it would have been last Thursday.

00:03:38.000 The first time ever?

00:03:39.000 No, for the first time in like in like maybe over a decade uh at the Netflix premiere for the it was kind of cool, like the first, you know, 34 seconds.

00:03:53.000 I was like, okay, I remember this.

00:03:54.000 And then it was like, yeah, I I I fucking remember this.

00:03:57.000 Wow.

00:03:58.000 Damn.

00:03:59.000 And then I like I'm I'm in the right the sun just beating right on my on my forehead, and it's just I could feel myself start to sweat.

00:04:07.000 Now I'm questioning the whole outfit.

00:04:09.000 You know, the underwear choice.

00:04:12.000 All of it.

00:04:12.000 It's just like every decision I made leading up to that was completely wrong.

00:04:17.000 Yeah.

00:04:17.000 And it's all being documented, you know.

00:04:20.000 Oh.

00:04:22.000 Yeah.

00:04:22.000 What's really funny at the when I'm when you first walked into the studio, you brought up a tweet that I had sent in 2011.

00:04:31.000 I think this is when you were going crazy.

00:04:33.000 Yeah.

00:04:34.000 And uh I think this is also when my friend Russell Peters was doing those tours with you.

00:04:39.000 Oh, that's right.

00:04:39.000 And it said, I need to get Charlie Sheen on my podcast.

00:04:41.000 I know it's a long shot, but a boy could dream but everybody knows him.

00:04:44.000 Help me hook it up.

00:04:45.000 Well, here we are, fourteen years later.

00:04:47.000 You know, it takes what it takes, right?

00:04:49.000 Yeah.

00:04:49.000 Um it's funny because back then I don't think I had no guests.

00:04:52.000 I think I had Anthony Bourdain was the only like real guest that I had had uh seriously.

00:04:57.000 Yeah, he was 2011 as well.

00:04:59.000 And and how many shows had you done by then?

00:05:01.000 Not that many by then, I don't know.

00:05:03.000 So were you just doing solo shows, just like covering topics and talking about it?

00:05:06.000 Most of them with my friends, mostly with other comics.

00:05:08.000 Okay.

00:05:09.000 We just sit and talk shit and then eventually your house?

00:05:12.000 Yeah, I was at my house back then.

00:05:14.000 Okay.

00:05:15.000 So it looked nothing like this.

00:05:16.000 No, no, no.

00:05:17.000 It slowly had to get out of it.

00:05:19.000 It's like I had too many weirdos that I had to bring by my house, and I have young kids at the time.

00:05:24.000 They're really young.

00:05:24.000 I was like, this is just too strange, bring these weirdos by our house, and you know.

00:05:29.000 It was just too odd.

00:05:30.000 I was like, maybe some people shouldn't know exactly where I sleep.

00:05:34.000 Right, right.

00:05:35.000 Yeah.

00:05:36.000 And it's interesting because driving here, um, I was buried in my phone just, you know, for for the right reasons.

00:05:42.000 Um so I have no idea where we are.

00:05:44.000 Good.

00:05:44.000 So it was kind of like a the version of being blindfolded with a with a sack over my head, you know.

00:05:48.000 Yeah, that's probably how we should do it.

00:05:51.000 Can you imagine then like I'm the guy they're blaming for introducing this?

00:05:56.000 Just put everybody in a blindfold and put them in the back of an SUV and drive into an undisclosed location.

00:06:01.000 And make the guy drive a few circles around in like some you know neighborhood right over there, yeah.

00:06:06.000 Yeah.

00:06:07.000 Um but we did it.

00:06:09.000 We're here.

00:06:10.000 That those things that you did with Russell Peters were so fascinating.

00:06:14.000 It was the whole thing was so fascinating.

00:06:16.000 I watched the Netflix thing.

00:06:17.000 I watched the first episode.

00:06:19.000 And the whole the the whole experience of watching the guy from Platoon.

00:06:26.000 The guy that everybody knows this is like this gigantic super cool movie star, hot shots, all these different things.

00:06:33.000 To watch you just not just go off the rails with drugs, but like be super open about it.

00:06:41.000 You were like the first guy, super open about it.

00:06:44.000 You know, and everybody just embraced it.

00:06:47.000 Instead of it being like, oh, Charlie Sheen's doing drugs, that's so sad.

00:06:51.000 It was like, we love him.

00:06:52.000 Keep going.

00:06:53.000 It was kind of crazy.

00:06:55.000 All the tiger blood stuff and winning.

00:06:57.000 Everybody was saying winning all the time.

00:06:59.000 And it it was what was that like for you?

00:07:02.000 Was that like was it the worst kind of reinforcement?

00:07:07.000 Or was or did it let you like were you surprised by it?

00:07:11.000 That's a great way to describe it.

00:07:12.000 It was it it is yeah, I the worst kind of reinforcement.

00:07:16.000 Yeah.

00:07:16.000 It was like uh unintentionally or otherwise celebrating a guy's demise.

00:07:24.000 Right.

00:07:25.000 You know, and and and I guess the the the train wreck was so spectacular that there was such a spectacle that they couldn't turn away.

00:07:33.000 But they were also being invited in to to follow it down the tracks.

00:07:37.000 Yeah.

00:07:38.000 You know, and then somebody asked me about it, and and and I, you know, I don't know if I was the conductor or if I was riding a caboose or both simultaneously.

00:07:48.000 Um it was a trip because thinking back on it, it's you know, some of it just kind of exists in in just Polaroid snapshots that kind of drift past through the mist, you know.

00:07:59.000 Other other moments are in high deaf, but kind of seen through a tunnel vision.

00:08:05.000 Like in it and and it's it was I there was an energy or it was there was an energy I tapped into that felt like I was playing a role, but I couldn't figure out if it what you know what the move what the plot was who my co-stars were.

00:08:22.000 Where somebody, you know, somebody show up with like a jig page one rewrite.

00:08:27.000 Right.

00:08:27.000 That's what we fucking need.

00:08:28.000 Yeah.

00:08:29.000 Um and it and it got away from me.

00:08:32.000 And and had it not been encouraged, I think it could have been curtailed, it could have been shut down a lot sooner.

00:08:40.000 Right.

00:08:41.000 You become kind of captured to the image.

00:08:43.000 Yes.

00:08:44.000 Yeah.

00:08:44.000 And there was something that and just recently, something I stumbled on to, um, it's um I was I was in in some way, um I was being a bully.

00:08:56.000 It had a bullying kind of energy about it, you know, and I've never been that guy.

00:09:01.000 How so?

00:09:02.000 Householder bullying.

00:09:03.000 The way I was attacking people and I was challenging people.

00:09:05.000 I was like the tough guy on the block and had all these soldiers, had this called cadre behind me and it was like, you know, inviting people into the ring.

00:09:13.000 I've never been in the ring.

00:09:14.000 What are we doing, you know?

00:09:16.000 You're on coke.

00:09:19.000 It's total cocaine behavior.

00:09:21.000 Among other things.

00:09:22.000 Um yeah and and I think um there was a whole testosterone component as well that was um out of hand just out of control because there's you know what do they recommend?

00:09:33.000 Like a quarter size dollop and like every other day and no I I there's a line in the book where I say I was I was slathering that that shit on like a fucking Pons commercial.

00:09:42.000 Oh so you using the cream?

00:09:44.000 Yeah.

00:09:45.000 Yeah which is hard to measure.

00:09:47.000 It's not just hard to measure.

00:09:48.000 It gets on other people.

00:09:49.000 Oh I read the story about this guy who is on TRT cream and his child started like showing signs of uh premature development.

00:10:00.000 Oh.

00:10:00.000 And they realize that this kid's testosterone level was through the roof because it's through the dermis, right?

00:10:06.000 It's through the skin.

00:10:07.000 So he's getting it on his arms and then he's hugging his child and the kid is getting juiced.

00:10:13.000 Like what were the kids' numbers do we know?

00:10:14.000 We don't know.

00:10:15.000 Like in the sound I don't think they released that but they they said that it probably permanently affected the kid's development.

00:10:21.000 Oh wow yeah because this kid is like experiencing puberty at three you know you're getting bombarded with testosterone while your dad is holding it.

00:10:32.000 Insane insane is that part of the reason they recommend like an inner thigh application. 1.00

00:10:38.000 I guess then the only person would get it is the person you're having sex with exactly for her or your horse.

00:10:44.000 Right.

00:10:46.000 It's probably good for the horse.

00:10:47.000 Right so there was testosterone and cocaine together at the same time that's that sounds like a combination of hubris.

00:10:55.000 And a lot of rage and a lot of rage a lot of rage but the rage I think um it's it's interesting because when you finally get some distance from something you start to realize that that it wasn't really so much about what you said it was about in the moment and I and I'm you know really realizing it wasn't about the job wasn't about chuck it was it was about all the stuff in my personal life you know it was about trying to just be be a certain guy at work be a certain guy at home and then just never having the time to be a certain guy with me.

00:11:24.000 And I just I just couldn't I couldn't find any place to to find any refuge or solace or any type of just a moment to breathe to just to decompress you know that's all important.

00:11:37.000 Yeah and I there was a it's not in the book because I can't really I don't remember it well enough to put it in the book and that was kind of how I decided what's in there and what's not right um or if something just isn't true it's not in the book.

00:11:51.000 And so um but it it um you know I was I was I was trying to just kind of you know like you know I I I went through two divorces and and had four children during during that run of eight years, you know.

00:12:11.000 And so um That's crazy.

00:12:13.000 It's insane yeah and and they both you know they they fell apart for for for married reasons and whatever and and but did there there wasn't time to heal the last one before the next one kicked off and but that's all on me.

00:12:29.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:12:30.000 That's all on me making those decisions.

00:12:32.000 That's one of the through lines in the book is that it like really comes down to really being all about choices.

00:12:40.000 But then um yeah and and and but it it's just for for it to be just talking about the bullying stuff you know for it to be so directed at a guy who let's like if you really break it down what did he really do to me?

00:13:00.000 He created this environment with the dream character in in an in a in an amazing show so people tell me right um that that that was the you know the toast of the town right and and all he asked for me was to just like you know just show up be responsible know your lines hit your marks do your fucking job you know that though the the those were the only demands.

00:13:26.000 Essentially the stuff I told him before I took the Job that I was going to do.

00:13:33.000 So and then I turn it into that.

00:13:37.000 You know, it it's really difficult to really look back on that and figure out why it got that far, how it got that far.

00:13:44.000 Oh, I can help you out.

00:13:45.000 Okay.

00:13:46.000 Testosterone testosterone.

00:13:50.000 It'll have you having all kinds of conversations with people in your head that'll tell you exactly what's what you're doing is correct.

00:13:56.000 Right.

00:13:56.000 Sorry, I lost it.

00:13:57.000 Did you ever talk to Chuck?

00:13:58.000 Did you ever like Chuck O'Learch sorry?

00:14:00.000 Yeah, no, it was I was really grateful we were able to do that.

00:14:04.000 Oh, that's nice.

00:14:04.000 Yeah, it's carrying that around for too long.

00:14:06.000 Yeah.

00:14:07.000 He hired me for a show he had a few years ago called Bookie with Sebastian Manescalco, right?

00:14:12.000 Oh yeah, that's right.

00:14:13.000 Yeah.

00:14:14.000 So I came in and did I played myself, did a few scenes, did a cameo, you know, did some fun stuff, and just back on a set with Chuck, and and it was like it was it just felt like it like it like it like it did in the in the early parts of the city.

00:14:26.000 Oh, that's well, good on him for not holding a grudge too.

00:14:29.000 Yeah.

00:14:30.000 That's that's awesome.

00:14:30.000 Sorry I lost that thought earlier.

00:14:32.000 No, no, no.

00:14:33.000 Well, it's a it's a complicated thing to think about.

00:14:36.000 Like, why did I go off the rails?

00:14:37.000 You know, it's like and it's very reasonable.

00:14:42.000 Here's the thing.

00:14:44.000 I don't think anybody but Charlie Sheen knows what it's like to be Charlie Sheen.

00:14:50.000 And in my estimation, there are a scant few people that have become massive superstars at a young age and came through it sane.

00:15:02.000 I don't know anybody.

00:15:04.000 Everybody, I mean I know people that have regained equilibrium and got their footing back and now they're on the right track, and but no one gets through without a hiccup.

00:15:14.000 It's everyone kind of goes crazy because you're living in this completely alien world that no one can help you navigate.

00:15:21.000 Even if you've watched the the people closest to you go through it your most of your life and like just like right over there.

00:15:30.000 Yes.

00:15:30.000 Like in the in the next room.

00:15:32.000 Right.

00:15:32.000 You know, or in the same room.

00:15:34.000 Right.

00:15:34.000 And a bunch of your friends.

00:15:35.000 Yes.

00:15:36.000 It doesn't matter.

00:15:37.000 It's still bananas.

00:15:39.000 It's still an alien world that you live in that no one that you run into during the day except the people like that can understand.

00:15:46.000 Right.

00:15:46.000 Which is like people are always like, why do celebrities always hang out with each other?

00:15:49.000 Well, because to them, they're the only people that are normal.

00:15:52.000 Yeah.

00:15:52.000 They're the only people that like I get it.

00:15:54.000 I can't go to the supermarket either.

00:15:56.000 I get it.

00:15:56.000 I yeah, I get fucking TMZ'd at the airport as well.

00:15:59.000 Right.

00:16:00.000 It's like f it's normal for them.

00:16:02.000 Because everybody else is like, whoa, it's Charlie Sheen.

00:16:05.000 And they're just captivated.

00:16:06.000 Like you kind of need to be around people that understand what that life is like.

00:16:11.000 But the problem is they're all going crazy too.

00:16:14.000 Right.

00:16:15.000 Yeah.

00:16:16.000 It's not um I mean it's it's a it's a it's a great support group to a degree.

00:16:22.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:16:24.000 I think you can rely on them for the things that you have in common.

00:16:28.000 Right.

00:16:29.000 But maybe take the more complicated shit just right across the street.

00:16:33.000 Yeah.

00:16:34.000 Yeah.

00:16:35.000 To the experts.

00:16:36.000 Yeah.

00:16:37.000 Yeah.

00:16:37.000 You can't rely on them for everything.

00:16:39.000 No.

00:16:40.000 Because they're going through it too.

00:16:42.000 Can I just get a tissue?

00:16:42.000 Do you mind?

00:16:43.000 Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

00:16:44.000 Jimmy, you got a box?

00:16:49.000 Thank you.

00:16:50.000 Sorry, I'm just saying.

00:16:51.000 No worries.

00:16:52.000 Getting sweaty.

00:16:53.000 Is it hot in here?

00:16:54.000 Turn the AC on.

00:16:56.000 No, I'll tell you exactly what happened.

00:16:57.000 I got I lost that thought, and then I tried to cover, and I realized this isn't he's not buying this, and then I started sweating.

00:17:03.000 And I started fucking sweating.

00:17:04.000 So I'm just gonna lose that.

00:17:06.000 It's normal, man.

00:17:07.000 Just say you lost your thought.

00:17:08.000 It's all good.

00:17:08.000 Yeah.

00:17:09.000 It happens all the time.

00:17:10.000 It happens to me too.

00:17:12.000 Why is that though?

00:17:13.000 Is our brain already trying to figure out the next thing that's going to attach to it?

00:17:17.000 And by doing so, it took that the main thing and just dismissed it.

00:17:21.000 Perhaps.

00:17:22.000 Okay.

00:17:22.000 It's also brains are just not that good.

00:17:24.000 Huh.

00:17:25.000 You know, they're they're pretty good compared to chimp pansies and dogs and stuff like that. 1.00

00:17:29.000 But you know, they have a lot of issues.

00:17:31.000 Okay.

00:17:32.000 Just like we were talking about your memories.

00:17:34.000 Like my m my memories of my whole life are like a series of blurry snapshots that I can go, oh yeah.

00:17:40.000 Then we went there.

00:17:41.000 Oh yeah, that happened.

00:17:42.000 Right.

00:17:43.000 Oh yeah.

00:17:44.000 There's very few memories that I have that are like rock solid memories.

00:17:47.000 Right.

00:17:48.000 Yeah.

00:17:49.000 I totally get that.

00:17:50.000 And there's a little thing in the book where I talk about memories are tricky.

00:17:53.000 And is it the is it a story someone told me?

00:17:56.000 Is it is it is it me in that moment, or is it a is it a you know uh a creased photo I saw in an old album in the 70s or 80s?

00:18:07.000 Is it was the memory given to me or or did I did I create it?

00:18:11.000 Right.

00:18:12.000 Yeah, and there's also the the real possibility that you have false memories and people do that all the time.

00:18:19.000 And they they've even shown that they can introduce memories into people's minds and and then with enough sort of uh encouragement or revisiting it, that person will accept it as a a pure memory and it actually happened to them.

00:18:32.000 Yeah, and they'll they'll talk about it like outside of that, and they'll have no knowledge that it was a false memory.

00:18:38.000 Wow.

00:18:39.000 Yeah, because it's just not a good system.

00:18:41.000 It's a system designed to keep you away from scary things.

00:18:44.000 Like there's the wolf, oh, get away from the wolf.

00:18:46.000 You know wolves are bad.

00:18:48.000 I remember, I remember wolves are bad.

00:18:49.000 That's the spider that's poisoned.

00:18:51.000 Get away from that spider. 0.92

00:18:52.000 That's spider that's poison. 1.00

00:18:53.000 But like day to day, uh every day normal shit, it's like how much of a memory does it really need to keep.

00:19:00.000 It's just your brain's just not that good.

00:19:02.000 And then and then even in and then so do certain do um certain memories then get overlaid with um a a newer version of that okay.

00:19:13.000 Yeah, they get narratives.

00:19:15.000 And you and you start repeating the memory, and your memory becomes of you repeating the memory.

00:19:20.000 Wow.

00:19:21.000 So it's like you don't even really have the memory anymore.

00:19:23.000 You have you know how to say it.

00:19:25.000 Okay.

00:19:25.000 Didn't that happen with um with the that one Kaczynski witness?

00:19:31.000 Did it?

00:19:32.000 With a unibomber witness?

00:19:33.000 Yes.

00:19:34.000 Interesting.

00:19:34.000 Yeah, because that's why the first uh composite that was put out really uh ultimately wound up looking nothing like the actual guy.

00:19:44.000 Oh, interesting.

00:19:45.000 Yeah, there was a thing that yeah, there was a thing where her memory was corrupted by a different description from somebody else.

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00:20:30.000 Fermentation is also good for your gut.

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00:20:36.000 So yeah, a lot of people are into them, and if you're not, no worries because they offer a sixty-day money back guarantee.

00:20:44.000 Go to Paleovalley.com and use the code Rogan to get twenty percent off, or find them on Amazon.

00:20:52.000 Give them a shot and you'll see why everybody's hooked.

00:20:54.000 Well, there's also the factor that the unibomber was such a traumatic event that this person was probably super freaked out, which is when your memory's the worst.

00:21:04.000 Interesting.

00:21:05.000 Yeah, that's why eyewitness accounts of like murders and chaos, they're really bad.

00:21:10.000 Right, right.

00:21:10.000 They're really bad.

00:21:11.000 Very unreliable.

00:21:13.000 There's some really really awful percentage about when even when they wind up in a in a courtroom.

00:21:19.000 Yeah.

00:21:19.000 Like the like the determining from the person, that guy, that it's like sometimes it's as high as like sixty percent that they're just wrong.

00:21:31.000 Yeah, and then they'll convince themselves that they're right because they've already said it, so then the ego gets involved.

00:21:36.000 And then, you know, it's just traumatic events leave you you're in a high state of anxiety and you're not thinking clearly.

00:21:43.000 Right.

00:21:43.000 You're freaked out.

00:21:45.000 And you don't like when when they have events like like say like 911, um, if you were anywhere near that and you saw like people jump off the buildings and and fall to their deaths, or like your memories of that are probably really clear because it was fucking crazy.

00:22:04.000 Right, right, right.

00:22:05.000 But your memories of people that you might have saw that were running away, or maybe you saw a guy in a van and you looked fishy, or maybe this or maybe that.

00:22:14.000 It's like and then a few days go by and you're you probably haven't slept well, you're all freaked out.

00:22:19.000 Right.

00:22:19.000 Your memory's probably a mess.

00:22:21.000 It's probably filled with the news now, and then there's other people's eyewitness accounts, and and you know, you don't know what the fuck happened.

00:22:28.000 Right.

00:22:28.000 You you you know, you obviously you see someone die, see someone jump off a building, you're gonna remember that.

00:22:33.000 But there's some stuff that it's just our my you know, this is one of the scariest things about transhumanism is that it's really appealing in the idea that if they give you a little hard drive in your brain, and now from now on, every time you want a memory, you can go just like you know, you look on your phone, like your iPhone on this day in 2017, you're like, Oh, look at us. 0.98

00:22:54.000 That's cool.

00:22:55.000 You're gonna be able to do that in your brain.

00:22:58.000 You know, and the way that we're gonna buy into it is because our memory sucks.

00:23:02.000 That's how they're gonna sell it to us.

00:23:04.000 Yeah.

00:23:04.000 Interesting.

00:23:05.000 Yeah, I mean, do you remember your phone number when you were a kid?

00:23:08.000 Um no, but I remember my address because it rhymed.

00:23:11.000 That's nice.

00:23:12.000 Yeah, it was 7212 Birdview Avenue Malibu.

00:23:15.000 You used to remember your phone number.

00:23:16.000 What happened?

00:23:17.000 It goes away because your memory sucks.

00:23:19.000 Right.

00:23:19.000 I I I I know my parents' number because they still have a landline.

00:23:23.000 Oh, they're still rocking the landline.

00:23:25.000 Yeah, they are, yeah.

00:23:26.000 And they have an answering machine.

00:23:28.000 Whoa.

00:23:28.000 Yeah.

00:23:29.000 That during dinner they haven't really turned it down.

00:23:32.000 Oh, and then people start talking in the background.

00:23:34.000 Yeah.

00:23:35.000 Yeah.

00:23:35.000 But it's just part of it.

00:23:36.000 It's part of the experience.

00:23:39.000 They're rocking a landline with an answer machine in 2025.

00:23:43.000 That is probably the way to do it.

00:23:45.000 I used to love the answer machine.

00:23:47.000 Would you come home, the light would be flashing like someone likes me.

00:23:50.000 Right.

00:23:50.000 Somebody called.

00:23:51.000 Yeah.

00:23:52.000 It was cool.

00:23:53.000 It's like you had a dog coming home to wait like to visit you when you came home.

00:23:57.000 Like, oh, look.

00:23:58.000 It's like induced Bigelow when it's like he's at his lowest point, and the thing in the light is never blinking.

00:24:04.000 I forgot about that.

00:24:05.000 You have no no new messages.

00:24:07.000 Yeah, that was a wild time where you could get phone calls.

00:24:11.000 That's another thing is like you got famous before the internet too, which is a different world.

00:24:16.000 It's a different world because there's not that many of you.

00:24:19.000 There's way less famous people.

00:24:21.000 There's way more famous people now.

00:24:22.000 Yeah.

00:24:23.000 You got famous like super duper famous at 21 years old with no internet.

00:24:29.000 Trip out.

00:24:30.000 Yeah, I know.

00:24:32.000 How does anybody expect you to come out normal?

00:24:35.000 Jesus Christ.

00:24:36.000 And and it's and you try, you can't really even explain to someone that that the wasn't around during all that.

00:24:43.000 You can't really explain what it felt like because they they look at it as the things that were missing.

00:24:49.000 And and there wasn't anything missing.

00:24:51.000 Right.

00:24:52.000 It was about having to really be engaged in everything you were doing.

00:24:57.000 You know, you had to show up to to you know, uh to gain to to get a like, you had to enter the building.

00:25:05.000 Right, right.

00:25:06.000 You know, you had to go to on a talk show, you had to attend a junket.

00:25:10.000 You you know what I'm saying?

00:25:11.000 And you couldn't and nobody knew nobody knew what the behind the scenes of your movie looked like until you know, years later on the DVD feature or or the VHS feature.

00:25:21.000 Right that they finally saw some of that stuff.

00:25:24.000 Yeah.

00:25:24.000 It wasn't it wasn't uh all access 247 365.

00:25:31.000 And for some people they can't leave it alone.

00:25:32.000 They they have to live stream during the day.

00:25:35.000 They're live streaming from their trailer, they're live streaming on in their car on the way home.

00:25:39.000 They're like Yeah, what is that about?

00:25:41.000 They're nuts.

00:25:42.000 They're just locked into this weird new world that we're living in.

00:25:46.000 But is it I mean, is it because there's genuinely people that are tuning in with enthusiasm that are looking forward to that live stream in the car ride home, or because the person or is it a combination?

00:26:00.000 I think it's those things, and it's also that thing that you said that you didn't ever get, they're scared of.

00:26:05.000 You didn't ever get alone time.

00:26:08.000 Just just time to decompress and think.

00:26:10.000 Just be by yourself.

00:26:12.000 No phone, no TV, just fucking sit on the couch and just like cat catch your breath. 0.82

00:26:17.000 Right.

00:26:17.000 And they don't want that.

00:26:18.000 That's they're scared of that.

00:26:19.000 I like that.

00:26:19.000 So they're just constantly engaged with something.

00:26:22.000 I like entire days of that.

00:26:24.000 Ooh, that's nice.

00:26:24.000 Alone on the couch.

00:26:25.000 Yeah.

00:26:26.000 Watching TV.

00:26:27.000 That's nice.

00:26:28.000 It's nice to just shut off, right?

00:26:30.000 It really is.

00:26:31.000 It's uh all work, no play.

00:26:34.000 Not good.

00:26:35.000 Not good at all.

00:26:36.000 Not good.

00:26:36.000 Bad for you.

00:26:37.000 And bad for your work too.

00:26:39.000 Because it makes you just kind of it gets dreary.

00:26:42.000 You don't you don't have the same enthusiasm for it anymore.

00:26:47.000 You know, it's like you need discipline, but you also need enthusiasm.

00:26:50.000 You know what I was gonna say earlier.

00:26:52.000 Thanks.

00:26:52.000 Okay, all right.

00:26:53.000 The memory just you know, uh dr dropped another uh token in the in the in the slot.

00:27:00.000 Um is that uh now no, it's you know, it doesn't even connect.

00:27:05.000 It doesn't?

00:27:06.000 Um Let's find out.

00:27:08.000 Well, no, no, and then I I actually forgot it again.

00:27:11.000 How about that?

00:27:12.000 Is that fucking nuts?

00:27:14.000 It's normal.

00:27:15.000 It's normal.

00:27:17.000 When you um when you first got Platoon, did you have any idea like what the fuck was gonna happen?

00:27:23.000 I didn't.

00:27:24.000 I didn't.

00:27:25.000 Is that for for people today to to understand how big that movie was?

00:27:29.000 It was it was one of the very first realistic war movies.

00:27:34.000 And I think very importantly, it was done by Oliver Stone, who was actually a veteran of the Vietnam War.

00:27:41.000 You remembering what you wrote down?

00:27:44.000 Just that piece.

00:27:45.000 Yeah.

00:27:46.000 I'm not gonna forget it again.

00:27:47.000 Okay.

00:27:47.000 Pardon.

00:27:48.000 Sorry.

00:27:49.000 But that it was it was a different kind of war movie, you know.

00:27:53.000 Yeah.

00:27:53.000 It um much in the lines of your dad's movie.

00:27:57.000 Yeah.

00:27:58.000 You know, in that that was a very different kind of war movie as well.

00:28:00.000 Yeah, Apocalypse from here, Platoon, you know, boots on the ground.

00:28:07.000 Um the script didn't read like it was going to be a masterpiece.

00:28:14.000 The the script read um like it like a kind of like a docudrama sort of movie of the week.

00:28:24.000 It didn't you didn't read that script and say, oh wow, okay, yeah, this is the one.

00:28:29.000 People are gonna really wow, they're gonna worship this thing.

00:28:32.000 It didn't the dialogue was very clipped and very um very specific.

00:28:39.000 Um it it you kind of never really knew where you were in the script in the scene descriptions.

00:28:47.000 You know, it it the script was so lean, I think it was like barely a hundred pages.

00:28:52.000 Really?

00:28:53.000 Yeah.

00:28:54.000 Um so but I I I I didn't realize sort of um what we were doing until we were actually doing it.

00:29:05.000 Usually I can read a scene and get a sense of you know what my responsibilities are gonna be or how we're gonna break it down, or at least you know, how how I'm gonna see it on the screen.

00:29:15.000 And I couldn't I couldn't do that with Platoon because all the terrain, all the scenes, everything kind of felt very similar, you know.

00:29:25.000 Really yeah, and the original title was The Platoon.

00:29:30.000 You think it's a as big a hit if he keeps the the Yeah, I don't think it matters.

00:29:34.000 It's a great movie.

00:29:35.000 Thank you.

00:29:38.000 But we started to feel it as as we got deeper into it.

00:29:41.000 And and and Oliver did something brilliant where he he decided to film it in continuity.

00:29:48.000 Like from page one day one all the way to the final day was the final page.

00:29:52.000 And that and that gave us a chance to like when something was finished, you were done with it.

00:29:57.000 And and you didn't have to know how you were gonna react or how you already reacted to something that hadn't happened yet.

00:30:03.000 Right.

00:30:04.000 And when people died in the movie, they got sent home.

00:30:08.000 They were just like the next day, they were just gone.

00:30:11.000 I guess he wanted us to feel that sense of just someone gone, that loss that that you know, sadness.

00:30:18.000 Yeah.

00:30:19.000 Now I'm not saying that I I would know how that felt in the real thing, but we bonded really, you know, pretty pretty yeah, we were bonded in a way that um because we we were the only people that we had in the middle of that country in the middle of that jungle in the middle of that movie.

00:30:36.000 Um so you really missed somebody when they were suddenly gone.

00:30:39.000 I would love to ask.

00:30:40.000 I mean, I've had Oliver on a couple of times, but I would love to ask him what it's like to make a movie about a war that he was starring in and like what kind of uh b bizarre mental conflicts Yeah, did he didn't get into any of that stuff when you really talked a little bit about his experience in Vietnam, but I don't think we really talked about Did we ever we talk about m the making of Platoon?

00:31:03.000 We got so heavy into the JFK assassination uh we hardly covered anything else.

00:31:09.000 Especially the last time he was on.

00:31:11.000 The last time he was on was on they were doing that Showtime JFK documentary.

00:31:15.000 It was a Showtime thing, right?

00:31:17.000 Wasn't it?

00:31:18.000 I think it was, yeah.

00:31:19.000 Where there was a multi part piece that he put together.

00:31:23.000 His recall is insane.

00:31:26.000 It's insane.

00:31:27.000 It is you have a conversation with him, he's pulling up dates, he's got no bo I mean, how old is Oliver at this point in time?

00:31:33.000 Um upper 70s?

00:31:36.000 I just turned 60.

00:31:37.000 So if he was in seventy eight.

00:31:39.000 He's seventy eight seventy eight years old.

00:31:41.000 Okay, rock solid memory.

00:31:42.000 I mean, rock solid.

00:31:44.000 Wow.

00:31:44.000 The dude was just pulling up dates and names, and Alan Dulles did this, and Harry Ann.

00:31:50.000 Well, it was just like the entire Warren Commission report.

00:31:53.000 It's like citing different passages in it.

00:31:56.000 It's bananas.

00:31:57.000 That's deep.

00:31:57.000 Yeah.

00:31:58.000 Wow.

00:31:59.000 Has he landed on like what can he can he point to?

00:32:03.000 Or is it seven?

00:32:07.000 But there is a lot of people that wanted him dead, and for sure, there was a lot of fuckery going on with the Warren Commission.

00:32:12.000 For sure.

00:32:13.000 Right.

00:32:14.000 There's a lot of nonsense with the autopsies.

00:32:17.000 There's a lot of nonsense with the single bullet going through both him and Connolly and leaving more bullet fragments in Connolly's wrist than that magic bullet was missing, the one they found.

00:32:28.000 It's like bullshit.

00:32:29.000 Right, right.

00:32:29.000 The story's filled with bullshit.

00:32:30.000 Yeah.

00:32:31.000 And no one really knew how much bullshit it was until um they had that video that they played of the Zapruder film on the Geraldo Rivera show.

00:32:39.000 Yeah.

00:32:40.000 When Dick Gregory came on and who was a comedian, which was pretty wild, came on and had the footage of the Kennedy assassination.

00:32:47.000 Everybody sees Kennedy's head go back into the left, and you like.

00:32:52.000 What happened there?

00:32:53.000 And you immediately apply just simple common physics to it.

00:32:58.000 Yeah.

00:32:58.000 You know, especially anybody who's ever fired a weapon.

00:33:02.000 Also, it clearly looks like he got shot in the chest, too.

00:33:04.000 Like when he grabs his neck.

00:33:06.000 Right.

00:33:06.000 It's clearly he got shot right there.

00:33:08.000 And there's always that talk about doing a trake.

00:33:12.000 But you know, there's two different autopsies.

00:33:13.000 Right.

00:33:13.000 There's the autopsy in Dallas that says it's an entry wound.

00:33:16.000 And then there's the autopsy in Bethesda, Maryland that says it's tracheotomy.

00:33:19.000 Interesting.

00:33:20.000 Yeah.

00:33:20.000 Two different autopsies.

00:33:21.000 Make up your mind.

00:33:22.000 Yeah.

00:33:22.000 And it also looks like by the time they got to Bethesda, they kind of glued his head back together again.

00:33:27.000 Or at least put the pieces back to take a photo of it.

00:33:30.000 It's like more was missing from what they were talking about in Dallas than the Bethesda.

00:33:36.000 That's the shot where the gloved hand is like looks like it's pointing, right?

00:33:39.000 Yes.

00:33:39.000 Yeah.

00:33:40.000 There's a great book called Best Evidence by David Lifton, and he was an accountant.

00:33:45.000 And they he had some sort of assignment involving the Warren Commission report.

00:33:49.000 And so he decided to do is read the entire thing.

00:33:52.000 And so in the reading of the entire thing, he finds so many contradictions, so many things that don't make any sense that he starts becoming obsessed.

00:34:00.000 And then he finds out how many people who are witnesses to the assassination wind up dying mysteriously.

00:34:05.000 Right.

00:34:06.000 Off the charts.

00:34:07.000 Yeah.

00:34:08.000 Off the charts.

00:34:09.000 Like 95% of them?

00:34:10.000 All those people that were hanging around like a giant ton of them.

00:34:13.000 Right.

00:34:14.000 Died in car accidents.

00:34:15.000 Weird fucking.

00:34:16.000 Who is the guy in the train tower?

00:34:18.000 Guy named Bowers, right?

00:34:21.000 Who is Bowers?

00:34:22.000 He was the guy that saw Badge Man.

00:34:24.000 He saw people behind the knoll.

00:34:26.000 He saw the exchange of the rifle.

00:34:27.000 He saw all did he die weird.

00:34:29.000 He died uh I think he had a heart attack on a train track and then also got hit by the train.

00:34:36.000 I could be wrong, but it was one of those type of things.

00:34:40.000 But of course.

00:34:41.000 Yeah.

00:34:42.000 And then but uh wasn't it what was the who who's the guy uh who's standing at the when the curb explodes, like near the underpass.

00:34:48.000 Oh yeah, that's the guy.

00:34:49.000 That's the reason why they had had to come up with the magic bullet theory.

00:34:52.000 Is that Teague?

00:34:52.000 No.

00:34:52.000 What's his name?

00:34:53.000 I don't remember.

00:34:54.000 Did he die weird?

00:34:55.000 Probably.

00:34:56.000 I don't know if he died weird, but he was hit with a ricochet.

00:34:58.000 Right.

00:34:59.000 And because they knew that the overpass that's why they had that adds a bullet.

00:35:02.000 Yes.

00:35:03.000 They had to add that and they're like, okay, how do we fix this?

00:35:05.000 Right.

00:35:06.000 What about we said only one guy did it?

00:35:08.000 It's only three shots, so how do we come up with uh a reasonable excuse?

00:35:11.000 And they came up with the magic bullet.

00:35:13.000 Yeah.

00:35:14.000 Yeah.

00:35:14.000 I I I and I think the uh the the architect of that was uh was Spectre, you know.

00:35:21.000 I think it was our own spectrum.

00:35:22.000 Yeah.

00:35:22.000 Yeah, I think it was his idea.

00:35:23.000 Yeah.

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00:36:54.000 They just bullshit people.

00:36:56.000 But back then you can get away with that.

00:36:57.000 Right.

00:36:58.000 You know, it was pretty easy to just bullshit people.

00:37:00.000 And you see all the additional cameras, like Babushka Lady, for instance, right?

00:37:06.000 And and all that stuff just confiscated and never Yeah.

00:37:10.000 Well, they had the Zerpruder film for a long time.

00:37:13.000 I think Time Life had it.

00:37:14.000 And then somehow or another Dick Gregory got it.

00:37:17.000 Was it ever released with missing frames?

00:37:20.000 Wasn't there the jump cut when he goes behind the sign and then it jumps?

00:37:26.000 Because they didn't they take out the the the fatal head hit at some point and then tried to sell that?

00:37:33.000 Perhaps.

00:37:34.000 They probably did at one point in time.

00:37:37.000 Um but now obviously you could see the whole thing.

00:37:40.000 And then it's also been AI enhanced.

00:37:42.000 I don't know if you've seen the AI enhanced one.

00:37:44.000 I haven't no it's grisly.

00:37:46.000 It's even more gruesome.

00:37:47.000 It's gruesome.

00:37:48.000 I mean, I I think he was shot from multiple angles simultaneously.

00:37:52.000 That's what I think.

00:37:53.000 I think he was shot both from the back and from the front.

00:37:55.000 And I think Lee Harvey Oswald, if he wasn't involved, he certainly wasn't innocent.

00:38:00.000 He he was probably the guy that they were gonna frame it on.

00:38:04.000 Right.

00:38:04.000 But I think he was in on the whole thing.

00:38:06.000 Anyway, and I think he killed a cop afterwards as well.

00:38:08.000 Tip it, no, tip it. 0.57

00:38:10.000 Yeah.

00:38:11.000 Have you ever read that thing about um because uh Tippett's nickname back at the precinct was JFK read this thing?

00:38:19.000 Then they show the side by side of how much they really look like each other.

00:38:23.000 Really?

00:38:23.000 So they're saying he was the body they used for the transfer when they flew with the empty coffin, you know, all that stuff about uh yeah, it's I mean it is so there's so many just r you know warrants to travel down and there's so many angles to explore.

00:38:39.000 There's too many.

00:38:40.000 There's so many rabbit holes to go down.

00:38:42.000 We were introduced to it as kids because dad played both candidates.

00:38:47.000 So we were seeing documentaries at like, you know, I would have been ten or eleven, and Million was thirteen or fourteen.

00:38:53.000 And so we've been involved in this thing for a lot longer than we should have been.

00:38:58.000 Wow.

00:38:58.000 Yeah.

00:38:59.000 We had access to this stuff.

00:39:01.000 And so um was just nuts that no one was brought to justice, and we know for sure more people were involved than Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald.

00:39:09.000 There was more people involved.

00:39:10.000 Yeah.

00:39:11.000 No one was brought to justice, and they got away with it.

00:39:13.000 We don't want to think that they get away with things like killing the president.

00:39:18.000 But they did.

00:39:18.000 In broad daylight.

00:39:19.000 Yeah.

00:39:20.000 Yeah.

00:39:20.000 And blaming it on a lone gunman, a lone nut.

00:39:24.000 Yeah.

00:39:25.000 Who who they already had a full description and and and rapture and rundown and everything about it.

00:39:30.000 They printed articles about him before it was even over.

00:39:33.000 Yeah.

00:39:33.000 And then the Jack Ruby thing, where Jack Ruby goes completely insane in jail after he's visited by Jolly West, who is the head of MK Ultra.

00:39:41.000 Yeah.

00:39:41.000 Who is like routinely dosing people with acid.

00:39:44.000 Yeah.

00:39:45.000 He cooked Jolly Jolly West cooked Jack Ruby's brain in jail.

00:39:51.000 And just left him insane.

00:39:53.000 He's the guy from what's the book that it's Chaos.

00:39:57.000 From Chaos.

00:39:57.000 Yeah.

00:39:58.000 I actually read Chaos before it got all the attention.

00:40:01.000 Really?

00:40:01.000 Yeah.

00:40:02.000 Um friend of mine gave it to me, and I was, and I alright.

00:40:05.000 I'll uh I'll read a couple pages, and I was like, oh.

00:40:08.000 Yeah.

00:40:08.000 Oh, okay.

00:40:09.000 This is this is yeah, this is one of the best books.

00:40:12.000 Different take.

00:40:12.000 Yeah.

00:40:13.000 But I'm curious how you felt about the documentary they did about it.

00:40:18.000 I didn't watch it.

00:40:19.000 Okay.

00:40:20.000 I I thought it was going to be too quick.

00:40:22.000 90 minutes.

00:40:23.000 I didn't think was like enough time.

00:40:24.000 It's only 90 minutes, right?

00:40:25.000 I thought it was the first episode.

00:40:28.000 Oh, you're going to be able to do that.

00:40:28.000 So I watched it sort of Like a data gathering thing that you usually do with the first episode and kind of just seeing where the what the director's doing and what kind of stuff they're laying out early.

00:40:37.000 Yeah.

00:40:38.000 So and then when it ended and I didn't see that second episode with the timer, right?

00:40:43.000 Uh-huh.

00:40:44.000 And I was oh, that's and I thought it was a complete uh I thought it did radically underserved the book.

00:40:51.000 Yeah, maybe they could try again.

00:40:53.000 They need to that needs to be like an eight part two-hour a piece series.

00:40:59.000 Thank you.

00:41:00.000 Yeah.

00:41:00.000 Thank you.

00:41:01.000 Yeah, because it's so nuts.

00:41:03.000 The story is so nuts.

00:41:04.000 Yeah.

00:41:05.000 Just the provable actual facts are so nuts.

00:41:08.000 Yeah that very likely Charles Manson was a CIA asset.

00:41:11.000 Very likely they had groomed him when he was in prison and taught him mind control techniques when people were high on acid, taught him how to be sober but pretend he's on acid and how to interact with these people that are on acid and shape their mind and even get them to commit murder.

00:41:27.000 All of which is fact.

00:41:30.000 Yeah, no, it's it's it's it's it's I would say it's insane, but so much of it is I don't want to say provable, but but but has enough supporting evidence to make a compelling case.

00:41:44.000 And I love that the guy starts out just like uh yeah, yeah, you know, just a kind of a normal celebrity assignment for Premier Magazine, right?

00:41:54.000 Yeah, I've been on that magazine.

00:41:56.000 I had that cover twice.

00:41:58.000 My story didn't wind up like that.

00:42:00.000 I think that it was a story for a magazine, and it was just about the anniversary of the murders.

00:42:05.000 Exactly.

00:42:05.000 That's it.

00:42:06.000 That's what it was.

00:42:06.000 Yeah you know, just give us peace, you know, so people go, wow, crazy, 25 years later.

00:42:11.000 Wow.

00:42:12.000 Right.

00:42:12.000 Yeah.

00:42:12.000 And then he gets obsessed and he starts realizing, well, this guy was full of shit, and that guy was corrupted.

00:42:17.000 Oh my god, look at this.

00:42:18.000 And hold on.

00:42:20.000 Who's Jolly West?

00:42:21.000 Right.

00:42:21.000 You know, like what's MK Ultra?

00:42:23.000 This is real Freedom of Information Act, get the documents.

00:42:25.000 Oh my God.

00:42:26.000 Operation Midnight Climax.

00:42:29.000 The the government was running whorehouses. 1.00

00:42:31.000 They were running whorehouses and using two-way mirrors and dosing Johns and filming them. 1.00

00:42:36.000 And this has to do with Manson?

00:42:38.000 Like what what the fuck was going on?

00:42:40.000 Yeah.

00:42:40.000 And then you realize that it was all uh uh uh a psyop to try to demonize the peace, love and stop war movement, and that what they really wanted to do was stop the anti-war movement and do something to curb the cultural change that was happening.

00:42:59.000 And so their strategy was to turn hippies into murderers.

00:43:06.000 It kind of works.

00:43:06.000 Yeah.

00:43:07.000 It kind of works.

00:43:07.000 Yeah, I mean it's a long way to go, but it uh I think it had the effect they were looking for.

00:43:13.000 Imagine if they didn't do that.

00:43:15.000 Like what kind of cultural change would have taken place?

00:43:17.000 Because if you think about what what happened between 1950 and 1960, it's like the world becomes a different place in ten years.

00:43:25.000 Between nineteen sixty and nineteen seventies, like, what?

00:43:28.000 This world is crazy.

00:43:30.000 The music is crazy, the culture's crazy, the movies are nuts.

00:43:34.000 Everything is wild, it's very psychedelic.

00:43:37.000 And then Nixon comes along in 1970, passes this sweeping Schedule One Act, makes all mushrooms and LSD, makes everything illegal, all to stop the civil war the civil civil rights movement and the anti-war movement at the same time when they're doing this Manson stuff.

00:43:54.000 So it was a concerted effort across the board to stop the anti-war movement and to stop the civil rights movement.

00:44:01.000 They were like, We're losing control and power.

00:44:04.000 And so I mean, it was an evil thing to do, but you kind of gotta give them credit because it's pretty brilliant.

00:44:11.000 Like they they actually pulled it off.

00:44:13.000 You think of serial killer, you think of Manson.

00:44:15.000 You think of the family.

00:44:16.000 Oh my god, these hippies are murderous, right? 0.97

00:44:18.000 A bunch of murderous freaks on drugs, cutting women's babies out of their stomachs and writing pig on the wall.

00:44:25.000 Like this is nuts.

00:44:27.000 Yeah, and they and they brought the Beatles into it.

00:44:29.000 And our own goddamn government engineered it.

00:44:33.000 They engineered, they stopped what was probably one of the most beautiful cultural shifts in this country's history.

00:44:42.000 That would have organically still kept evolving into other things that would have would have blossomed out of it and yeah, we probably would have rethought government.

00:44:51.000 We probably would have like rethought the type of people that we want as leaders. 0.97

00:44:55.000 We'd have rethought our involvement in foreign wars.

00:44:59.000 There would have been no Support for it.

00:45:00.000 We would have rethought what psychedelic drugs can do for you versus uh the bad aspects of them.

00:45:06.000 We would have rethought everything.

00:45:08.000 We would have re we would have the music would have been a lot better.

00:45:13.000 Music took a big dip.

00:45:14.000 Yeah, it did.

00:45:15.000 Music took a big dip after they got rid of the drugs that were good and brought in the coke. 0.99

00:45:20.000 But people do point to the death of the 60s uh v occurred up at Cielo Drive.

00:45:26.000 Yeah.

00:45:26.000 Yeah, it was effective.

00:45:27.000 Yeah.

00:45:28.000 I mean, that that completely demonized any peace love and you know, any of that kind of movement, though those people became a real problem now because you're now connected to Manson.

00:45:39.000 It was instantly zero tolerance.

00:45:40.000 Mm-hmm.

00:45:41.000 Like overnight.

00:45:41.000 Kind of nuts.

00:45:42.000 Yeah.

00:45:42.000 Kind of nuts that it it was really all engineered by the government.

00:45:47.000 You know, it's really that in itself, in and of itself is a terrible crime.

00:45:53.000 That they sort of engineered society to their benefit so that they could maintain control.

00:46:00.000 And the way they did it is by getting a a horrible con who had been in and out of jail his whole life and teaching him how to run a cult.

00:46:09.000 Right.

00:46:10.000 Right.

00:46:11.000 A murderous cult.

00:46:12.000 And setting up at a free clinic in the hate.

00:46:15.000 Where my wife's mom went.

00:46:17.000 Oh.

00:46:18.000 Yes.

00:46:19.000 My wife's mom was a hippie. 1.00

00:46:20.000 You have a connection to this.

00:46:21.000 Yes.

00:46:23.000 My wife's mom went, she was a hippie in Haight Ashbury, and she went to the Hate Ashbury Free Clint. 0.99

00:46:28.000 Treated at that clinic.

00:46:29.000 Yes.

00:46:29.000 Wow.

00:46:29.000 You know, that clinic didn't shut down until after Tom O'Neill's book came out.

00:46:33.000 That clinic would have been running for over fifty years.

00:46:36.000 So it ran until like 2022.

00:46:38.000 Yeah.

00:46:39.000 Wow.

00:46:39.000 When did it close?

00:46:41.000 It closed shortly after that book came out.

00:46:42.000 They're like, hey, we're good.

00:46:45.000 I could have gone there while I was reading the book.

00:46:48.000 Yes.

00:46:48.000 The CIA was a running treatment.

00:46:52.000 What a trip.

00:46:53.000 That is so nuts.

00:46:54.000 And that clinic also connected to Jolly West.

00:46:57.000 That clinic also connected to all sorts of other marijuana experiences.

00:47:01.000 San Francisco is where they were doing Operation Midnight Climax.

00:47:04.000 That's where they had a brothel. 1.00

00:47:09.000 These are the people that are supposed to be like protect and serve.

00:47:13.000 Look out for your best interests.

00:47:14.000 Right, right, right.

00:47:15.000 Yeah.

00:47:15.000 These motherfuckers are creating Manson and a completely shifting society and turning people into whatever the fuck we became in the 70s and the 80s.

00:47:24.000 Yeah.

00:47:26.000 The book came out June 25th, 2019.

00:47:29.000 Yeah.

00:47:29.000 And the clinic closed July 2019.

00:47:34.000 Seriously.

00:47:35.000 Yeah.

00:47:36.000 Twenty months later.

00:47:37.000 Like fuck.

00:47:38.000 We're we got busted.

00:47:40.000 That dude read the foreword and was like, guys, we got a problem.

00:47:43.000 Yeah.

00:47:43.000 They that's probably how long it took them just to clear the building out.

00:47:46.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:47:47.000 And try to figure out whether they're gonna kill Tom O'Neill.

00:47:49.000 Right, right.

00:47:50.000 Has he been on the show?

00:47:52.000 Yes.

00:47:52.000 Oh, wow, okay.

00:47:53.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:47:54.000 What's he like?

00:47:55.000 He's great.

00:47:56.000 He's actually my good friend Greg Fitzsimmons.

00:47:58.000 He was his neighbor in New York.

00:48:00.000 Okay.

00:48:01.000 When he first started working on this.

00:48:02.000 And then he became his neighbor also in Venice.

00:48:05.000 Like he's been his neighbor for like 20 years.

00:48:08.000 So Greg's followed him from this entire journey.

00:48:11.000 And Greg had been telling me about it for years.

00:48:13.000 I'm like, when's your friend gonna get that fucking book done?

00:48:16.000 And then finally he says, tells me the whole story, how it took so long, why he's like, you gotta have him on.

00:48:22.000 The book is insane.

00:48:22.000 I'm like, let's go.

00:48:23.000 Wow.

00:48:24.000 So we had him on and it was incre uh first of all.

00:48:27.000 I listened to the book first before I had him on.

00:48:28.000 I listened to the audio version.

00:48:30.000 I was like, this is nuts.

00:48:32.000 Yeah.

00:48:32.000 This is nuts.

00:48:33.000 If this is all true, this is fucking insane.

00:48:36.000 And it's all true.

00:48:38.000 So it's they really did engineer a a murderous cult of of hippies.

00:48:46.000 And and almost used um the clinic um as a as a casting couch as as an audition process for which girls they thought would be the most uh vulnerable, yeah. 0.89

00:48:58.000 Crazy yeah.

00:48:59.000 Crazy that the CIA was doing that.

00:49:04.000 It's just I thought they were supposed to just operate on foreign soil.

00:49:08.000 I know they were, but you know, sometimes things get messy.

00:49:11.000 But it's like they you you talk to like your average boomer who just watches uh cable news and reads the newspaper, they're they never believe this in a million years.

00:49:20.000 And they'll hear us talking about it thinking, come on, guys.

00:49:23.000 Oh, you're out of your mind.

00:49:24.000 Come on.

00:49:24.000 And but they but they but they also will never read the book.

00:49:27.000 No, never read the book, and then when things get Proven, they never apologize.

00:49:32.000 Imagine that.

00:49:33.000 Never apologize for your baseless conspiracy theories that all turned out to be true.

00:49:37.000 Yeah.

00:49:38.000 Because, you know, the conspiracies are fucking real.

00:49:41.000 Okay.

00:49:41.000 This this conspiracy theory pejorative that they really started foisting on the American public during the Kennedy assassination was for that very reason.

00:49:49.000 They wanted to make it ridiculous for you to be in.

00:49:52.000 That's what the term was coined.

00:49:53.000 That's where the term became popularized.

00:49:55.000 Apparently the term existed before that.

00:49:57.000 We we we researched this, right?

00:49:59.000 Didn't we uh Google the original term of conspiracy theorists?

00:50:03.000 It's quite a bit earlier, but it was never like a thing in the public zeitgeist.

00:50:07.000 Right.

00:50:08.000 It became a thing during the Kennedy assassination because a lot of people were crushing it.

00:50:12.000 Because it looked weird.

00:50:13.000 You know, everything it even the people that hadn't seen the Zapruder film, everything just seemed off.

00:50:17.000 It seemed off and there was rumblings amongst people that were there that there were the big one was the shots from the grassy knoll.

00:50:23.000 Many people talked about gunshots.

00:50:26.000 And that one photo where there's like 15 people pointing to the same spot.

00:50:30.000 You see smoke near where the the bushes are, and it's not a good photo, but it's good enough that you go, hmm.

00:50:37.000 It's just too it was too uniform.

00:50:41.000 You know, people were they all were pointing.

00:50:43.000 We heard shots from back there.

00:50:45.000 There is a thing that does happen.

00:50:47.000 Um, especially if you look at Delee Plaza if you were driven through.

00:50:51.000 I have I've walked the whole crime scene, yeah.

00:50:54.000 It's weird to be there.

00:50:55.000 First of all, it's so little.

00:50:57.000 It's you can't believe how close everything is.

00:51:00.000 It's real little.

00:51:00.000 And that they but that they sent him into that tight turn and put him into that convertible pickle jar.

00:51:06.000 Yeah.

00:51:07.000 Completely planned.

00:51:08.000 And you watch the motorcycle cops drop back.

00:51:11.000 Uh-huh.

00:51:11.000 Just drop back.

00:51:12.000 Which is there's something I read.

00:51:14.000 Um, did you ever read um The Man Who Killed Kennedy?

00:51:18.000 I think it's uh Jim Mars.

00:51:19.000 Do you remember Jim Marvin?

00:51:20.000 Yes, yeah.

00:51:21.000 Did you ever have him on?

00:51:21.000 No, I didn't.

00:51:22.000 Oh, okay.

00:51:22.000 He's he's didn't he pass?

00:51:24.000 I think so.

00:51:24.000 Yeah.

00:51:25.000 Yeah.

00:51:25.000 He wrote Psy Spies, which um was in it all about remote viewing.

00:51:31.000 Oh yeah, yeah.

00:51:32.000 He's a trip.

00:51:32.000 He was deep into everything.

00:51:34.000 I go back and forth on that remote viewing scene.

00:51:35.000 I do too.

00:51:36.000 I do too.

00:51:37.000 But um there's something in one of his books um, and I've never been able to find it anywhere else.

00:51:44.000 It's almost like this little detail was scrubbed from the internet that the the Morse code signal for victory um right after the fatal headshot went out over every Dallas police radio.

00:51:58.000 Whoa.

00:51:58.000 Have you ever heard that?

00:51:59.000 Oh no.

00:52:00.000 Okay, I read that.

00:52:01.000 I this is disclaimer.

00:52:04.000 I'm not coming up with this.

00:52:05.000 This is not my original data.

00:52:08.000 Um, but yeah, when I read that, that was that was just that was creepy.

00:52:12.000 That's crazy.

00:52:14.000 And I don't know that he would have just added that for color.

00:52:18.000 That's not something you just throw out there.

00:52:21.000 Yeah, that's that's a weird thing to add.

00:52:24.000 Victory.

00:52:25.000 Well, a lot of people hated Kennedy back then.

00:52:27.000 It's hard for us to reconcile now today, because we think of him as like one of our greatest presidents.

00:52:33.000 Of course, because he got murdered.

00:52:34.000 We always love him after they get shot.

00:52:36.000 Sure.

00:52:37.000 But when he was alive, this this was like half the country fucking hated him.

00:52:43.000 And then there was the Bay of Pigs disaster where we lost a lot of people because Kennedy didn't give him air support.

00:52:49.000 Right.

00:52:49.000 He wasn't told about the invasion until like last moment, and air support was crucial to its success.

00:52:54.000 He denied air support.

00:52:56.000 A bunch of people died that weren't going to die.

00:52:58.000 Right.

00:52:58.000 And so those guys on the ground.

00:53:01.000 I my friend Evan has a theory, my friend Evan who owns Black Rifle Coffee, who was a ranger himself.

00:53:06.000 I met him.

00:53:07.000 He's the best.

00:53:08.000 I love him.

00:53:09.000 I love him to death.

00:53:10.000 Um, but he said, like those guys, those are hard-nosed killers.

00:53:16.000 And if they think that they lost their brothers because this fucking piece of shit didn't give them the air support that they deserved, it was Kennedy's idea.

00:53:24.000 And you tell them that you want to get that guy killed, like, oh, fucking sign me up.

00:53:28.000 Those guys would do it.

00:53:29.000 Interesting.

00:53:30.000 He's like, those would be the type of guys he would have do something like that, and they would probably tell you this would be a perfect place to do it.

00:53:36.000 Right, right.

00:53:36.000 That tight little turn.

00:53:37.000 Yeah.

00:53:38.000 Anybody who says, by the way, because conspiracies get everybody gets binary on this one way or another.

00:53:43.000 I believe this, right?

00:53:44.000 Anybody says that Lee Harvey Oswald couldn't make that shot has never shot a rifle.

00:53:49.000 You're full of shit.

00:53:50.000 If it the rifle's on, it was not that far.

00:53:53.000 I'm not saying he could do it a hundred times out of a hundred.

00:53:56.000 Right.

00:53:56.000 But the possibility of him having that rifle ready, he's got a scope, he's got arrest.

00:54:03.000 The the The car comes into view, you roll the sight onto his back, you squeeze off around squeeze off around, whack, and you get a headshot in there.

00:54:12.000 That's a hundred percent possible.

00:54:13.000 Sure.

00:54:13.000 I just don't buy it.

00:54:14.000 Right.

00:54:15.000 I don't buy I don't I don't think he acted alone.

00:54:18.000 If he did do it, he might have done it.

00:54:19.000 He might have shot at him.

00:54:20.000 He might have even hit him once.

00:54:22.000 There was other people.

00:54:23.000 There was he was the Patsy, and I think when he said I'm just a Patsy.

00:54:27.000 Right.

00:54:27.000 The way he said it was not like a guy who murdered somebody.

00:54:30.000 The way he said it was like, I can't believe they set me up.

00:54:33.000 Exactly.

00:54:34.000 Like, so I think he was in on a bunch of it.

00:54:37.000 Sure.

00:54:37.000 I just don't think he pulled the trigger.

00:54:39.000 Right.

00:54:39.000 Or if he did pull the trigger, he was one of many people that pulled the trigger.

00:54:43.000 That's what I think.

00:54:44.000 Yeah.

00:54:44.000 But there was a lot of other people saying, oh, he could have made those shots because the rifle scope was off.

00:54:50.000 That's you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

00:54:52.000 Because I could get your rifle scope to be off in five seconds.

00:54:55.000 Okay, if your rifle scope's perfect, is it zeroed in?

00:54:58.000 Bang, I drop it on the ground.

00:54:59.000 Try it again.

00:55:00.000 It'll be off by six inches at two hundred yards.

00:55:03.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:55:03.000 You're gonna move that thing.

00:55:04.000 It's they're fragile.

00:55:06.000 They require micro adjustments with little Allen wrenches and hex keys and shit.

00:55:10.000 And people they don't torque them too much.

00:55:13.000 You get it dialed in perfect.

00:55:14.000 On a on a $37 rifle.

00:55:17.000 On a rifle from 1963.

00:55:19.000 From the back of a magazine.

00:55:20.000 Yeah.

00:55:21.000 Of course that thing can get knocked off. 0.94

00:55:23.000 Easy.

00:55:23.000 Right.

00:55:24.000 Like almost instantly you can knock that thing off.

00:55:26.000 There is a thing about the tree though.

00:55:28.000 What about the tree?

00:55:29.000 That he had to shoot through a tree.

00:55:30.000 Because what they've done in a lot of the reenactments, um, yeah, you know, supporting that he was the lone gunman.

00:55:36.000 Um they they did uh cut out part of the tree that Kennedy's behind.

00:55:42.000 They cut it out for the reenactment?

00:55:44.000 Yeah.

00:55:44.000 So yeah, so he would have a clear field of view.

00:55:47.000 But he had a clear view field of view for at least a brief amount of time.

00:55:51.000 Sure.

00:55:51.000 And that's all you should.

00:55:52.000 That's all you need if you were good.

00:55:54.000 And if you practice, and I'm assuming that if you're gonna go shoot the president, you'll probably get used to firing off a few rounds.

00:55:59.000 You'll probably set up a target.

00:56:01.000 You're not gonna just hope that your accuracy is still there for three years ago.

00:56:05.000 Yeah, you're gonna practice.

00:56:06.000 Yeah.

00:56:07.000 So if you're gonna practice, you're gonna be even e uh quicker at wrapping a new round.

00:56:11.000 Sure.

00:56:12.000 He could have done it.

00:56:13.000 I just don't buy it.

00:56:14.000 It just none of the evidence seems to point in that direction, including all the evidence that they try to fabricate.

00:56:20.000 Like the magic bullet one is nuts.

00:56:23.000 Anyone who's ever shot anything with a bullet who looks at that and believes that went through two people and broke bones.

00:56:29.000 Yeah.

00:56:29.000 That looks like it shot got shot into a swimming pool.

00:56:32.000 Yeah.

00:56:32.000 It doesn't look like it ever hit anything.

00:56:34.000 No, and I've had people like you, you know, debate me and t taking the side of the magic bullet.

00:56:40.000 They're not they're free.

00:56:41.000 And like look me right in the eyes and do and believe it, and I'm just like, okay, well, cool.

00:56:46.000 This is where we have to just they're out of their mind.

00:56:51.000 Yeah, we have to walk away.

00:56:52.000 They're out of their mind.

00:56:53.000 It did they don't know.

00:56:54.000 I could show them like let's go, let's go take a bone from a cow.

00:56:59.000 Let's set up a bone from a cow and we'll I'll I'll shoot it at a hundred yards. 1.00

00:57:03.000 One bone.

00:57:04.000 Yeah.

00:57:04.000 Just one bone.

00:57:05.000 And let's take a look at that bullet.

00:57:06.000 Right.

00:57:06.000 Yeah.

00:57:07.000 It's not gonna look anything like that.

00:57:09.000 It's gonna be all fucked up.

00:57:11.000 And there's the fragments, there's missing fragments from the bullet that are in Connolly's wrist that are more fragments that are missing from the actual bullet they're attributing to the wound.

00:57:22.000 You can't.

00:57:23.000 It's just but they did it.

00:57:26.000 That's what's nuts.

00:57:27.000 We can see you can talk about it till the cows come home.

00:57:29.000 Do you know about the palm print though?

00:57:31.000 Oh, that um that they linked the rifle to Oswald because of a palm print on the knock when it they went to visit him in the morgue.

00:57:39.000 Yeah, they didn't get it till after the autopsy.

00:57:42.000 Yeah.

00:57:43.000 Huh.

00:57:44.000 It wasn't there, and then surprise.

00:57:47.000 How convenient.

00:57:47.000 Yeah.

00:57:48.000 Yeah.

00:57:49.000 And also, like, says who?

00:57:51.000 Says who his fingerprint was on it.

00:57:53.000 You could just say that back then.

00:57:55.000 1963.

00:57:56.000 The government says we found a finger, but Oswald doesn't have a lawyer.

00:57:59.000 No one's representing him.

00:58:00.000 He's dead.

00:58:01.000 Yeah.

00:58:01.000 You know, no one's gonna say, my client is innocent.

00:58:03.000 He's fucking dead.

00:58:04.000 Okay.

00:58:05.000 Pin it on him.

00:58:06.000 Nobody gives a shit.

00:58:07.000 And everybody just mourned the fact that the president was dead.

00:58:12.000 And then, you know, all of a sudden you got Lyndon Johnson full steam ahead with Vietnam War.

00:58:20.000 Yeah.

00:58:20.000 It's nuts.

00:58:21.000 Yeah, if you usually look what look at what happens after the major event, it like it's a big thing.

00:58:27.000 Things got very different.

00:58:28.000 Yeah.

00:58:28.000 They got very different.

00:58:29.000 That's when you really start to see like Kennedy was trying to be a real president.

00:58:35.000 And they were like, none of that.

00:58:37.000 Yeah, it was a Federal Reserve.

00:58:38.000 It was Vietnam. 0.62

00:58:39.000 It was like all these big, like really important.

00:58:41.000 Big things.

00:58:42.000 He wanted to get us out of the he wanted to kill the CIA.

00:58:44.000 He wanted to do a lot of things.

00:58:46.000 Yeah.

00:58:46.000 And they were like, not today, sir.

00:58:50.000 And then that's the the real argument is like we haven't really had a president since Kennedy.

00:58:55.000 Everything after that has been the the president's more of a a speaker.

00:58:59.000 Interesting.

00:59:00.000 Interesting.

00:59:01.000 The the giant machine behind it continues to run exactly as it always has.

00:59:06.000 Yeah, I mean, um and and uh just from where I sit, there's there's not a lot you can do about it.

00:59:12.000 There's nothing you can do about it.

00:59:14.000 You can talk, but look, if they haven't done anything about the Kennedy assassination, you can't do shit.

00:59:18.000 No.

00:59:19.000 You you you you could put pressure on people.

00:59:21.000 And you um you definitely can hurt their chances of getting re-elected if people find out that they're very disappointed in you for sure not supporting this or not telling us about that or lying about this, or you were involved in that.

00:59:34.000 Yeah, but other than that, like there's not much.

00:59:38.000 Not much you can do.

00:59:39.000 Yeah, that's why I don't really weigh in anymore.

00:59:42.000 It's probably smart.

00:59:44.000 So you know, it just it's feels like uh I don't know, it's wasted energy.

00:59:48.000 It definitely is a lot of that.

00:59:50.000 But it's also like a show, you know.

00:59:52.000 You could watch the show.

00:59:53.000 Hey, have you sort of heard the watch the latest episode of the Epstein Files?

00:59:56.000 Like, what's going on?

00:59:57.000 Yeah, you know, it turns into a show.

00:59:59.000 It turns into a parlor game also, you know.

01:00:02.000 Right?

01:00:03.000 That's that's how my dad described the OJ case.

01:00:05.000 Uh he said, This is like the greatest parlor game ever.

01:00:08.000 Right.

01:00:08.000 You know.

01:00:09.000 Boy, I remember watching that verdict on TV live in my apartment.

01:00:13.000 With this girl I was dating, she was a really sweet girl, and she couldn't believe that he was innocent.

01:00:19.000 Yeah.

01:00:20.000 She didn't understand it.

01:00:21.000 She was so confused.

01:00:23.000 Yeah, it didn't like it.

01:00:24.000 She was like, no.

01:00:25.000 Yeah.

01:00:26.000 No, how?

01:00:27.000 She just kept she kept like putting her hands over her face. 1.00

01:00:30.000 No, no.

01:00:36.000 Yeah.

01:00:37.000 Yeah.

01:00:37.000 I was on a on a mountaintop in Mexico doing a uh kind of kind of a you know, low rent sci-fi film called The Arrival.

01:00:48.000 I love that movie.

01:00:49.000 Oh, don't say that was a low rent movie.

01:00:51.000 I love that movie.

01:00:52.000 No turme out of that movie.

01:00:53.000 Dave Foley.

01:00:54.000 Dave Foley, who's a good friend of mine from uh news radio.

01:00:57.000 Okay.

01:00:57.000 Uh when we were on news radio together, he fucking loved that because this is a so underrated sci-fi movie.

01:01:03.000 I'm like, okay, cool.

01:01:04.000 Wow.

01:01:04.000 And I checked it out, it was great.

01:01:06.000 Thank you.

01:01:07.000 Thank you.

01:01:07.000 It was it was the first um film that actually incorporated a mashup of puppets and CGI at the same time.

01:01:16.000 Yeah.

01:01:16.000 Because it at that point it was either one or the other, and and the other hadn't fully really arrived yet.

01:01:23.000 Right.

01:01:23.000 You know, yeah.

01:01:24.000 Um so that was kind of cool.

01:01:26.000 But no, we were um I was so hoping for the day off to be back at the hotel because everybody knew the night before that the that the verdict was coming, right?

01:01:36.000 So we had to shoot this scene, and and there was a there was a prop man, and he had the only this is ninety-five, right?

01:01:44.000 He had the only uh cell phone, and it had like half a bar, and it's in and it's starting to rain, and he's got his ear and his his buddy's got his phone in LA up to the TV when they're about to read the verdict.

01:01:57.000 So we all gather around the prop man and we're watching him, and he's kind of leaning to keep the signal to keep it to kind of keep you know connected, and then we can see when he hears it.

01:02:10.000 He slumps a little bit, right?

01:02:13.000 Takes the phone from his ear and slams it into the mud and screams that motherfucker got away with murder.

01:02:23.000 Wow, echoed through the mist.

01:02:25.000 It was gnarly.

01:02:26.000 That's a wild scene.

01:02:27.000 That's how I learned about the OJ verdict.

01:02:30.000 Yeah.

01:02:30.000 Wow.

01:02:31.000 Yeah.

01:02:32.000 Wow.

01:02:33.000 Dave Anderson was there with me.

01:02:35.000 He's a buddy I grew up with.

01:02:36.000 He's in the book.

01:02:37.000 He's a he's a he's a two time Oscar winning uh FX makeup artist, you know.

01:02:41.000 And so, yeah, if you ever run across Dave the Rave, uh Anderson, ask him about the OJ verdict.

01:02:48.000 That's a cra just a crazy scene.

01:02:50.000 Imagine a guy reacting like that.

01:02:52.000 He was our only connection to it.

01:02:53.000 Yeah, and everybody was so invested in this thing.

01:02:56.000 And it was really hard to go.

01:02:59.000 And that was like do you remember time of day that might have happened?

01:03:02.000 Kind of late morning, sort of, or was it in the afternoon?

01:03:06.000 I don't remember at all.

01:03:08.000 We still had a a pretty sizable day to shoot.

01:03:11.000 Oh it was really hard to regain focus.

01:03:14.000 Yeah.

01:03:15.000 And feel like what we were doing still mattered.

01:03:18.000 Yeah.

01:03:18.000 Because there there was a uh the there was a giant just there was like a murmur in the universe at that point, you know.

01:03:24.000 Yeah.

01:03:25.000 Like something it felt like something had been taken from us.

01:03:29.000 You know?

01:03:29.000 Yeah.

01:03:30.000 Yeah.

01:03:30.000 Yeah, civility.

01:03:32.000 Did you see the last um or the most recent uh OJ documentary?

01:03:37.000 No.

01:03:38.000 It's um It's Murder Mayhem and Blood.

01:03:44.000 I think it's got three Murder Mayhem and Blood. 0.56

01:03:49.000 Something Murder Mayhem and Lies.

01:03:53.000 Uh something I'm probably way off with that title.

01:03:59.000 No.

01:04:00.000 No, it's actually it's a the latest OJ documentary.

01:04:04.000 Well, I guess Manhunt would be the latest.

01:04:07.000 This yeah, this is the one that that was before that.

01:04:09.000 And it's it's broken down at the crime scene by uh two like expert veteran uh recreationists.

01:04:19.000 Yeah.

01:04:20.000 Yeah, it's it it's a trip.

01:04:22.000 Do you do you do you watch any OJ stuff that comes out?

01:04:25.000 No.

01:04:26.000 No, I try not to.

01:04:28.000 Because it's just too weird.

01:04:30.000 I okay.

01:04:31.000 Do you think there was something else there?

01:04:33.000 No, I think he killed his wife.

01:04:35.000 Yeah.

01:04:35.000 And he killed Ron Goldman.

01:04:37.000 And he got away with it.

01:04:38.000 Yeah.

01:04:38.000 And it's just nuts.

01:04:40.000 It's just you know, it's weird.

01:04:41.000 You watch him on like naked gun and you're like, that guy?

01:04:44.000 Yeah.

01:04:45.000 That guy murdered his wife with a knife? 0.84

01:04:47.000 Like what?

01:04:47.000 Yeah.

01:04:47.000 And then he got away with it, and then he was just golfing.

01:04:50.000 Yeah, it was the follow-up part that didn't really support anything about what he had claimed.

01:04:56.000 You remember when he was a rapper?

01:04:58.000 Um the juices loose?

01:05:00.000 You remember that?

01:05:01.000 Oh gosh.

01:05:01.000 I think I think I just I willed that one out of my head like a like a like a king's robon and like it was a bunch of hot ladies around him.

01:05:11.000 Okay, it's coming back to me.

01:05:12.000 Yeah, he made a rap song.

01:05:14.000 Wow.

01:05:15.000 Yeah, he was like embracing the heel role at one point in time after the the guilty verdict or the not guilty verdict.

01:05:22.000 Right, right, right.

01:05:22.000 Yeah.

01:05:23.000 And so he he got into like rap.

01:05:29.000 But I mean, probably just just for d just for a monetary gravity.

01:05:32.000 I would imagine.

01:05:33.000 Let me punch play it. 0.69

01:05:34.000 Play the juices loose.

01:05:36.000 It's so bad.

01:05:37.000 Oh my god.

01:05:38.000 It's i it's is it off of YouTube?

01:05:40.000 That would be hilarious.

01:05:41.000 He had a it was part of a TV show.

01:05:43.000 He had I saw another clip recently.

01:05:44.000 Oh, that's right.

01:05:45.000 Yeah, it was like a prank show.

01:05:46.000 He was trying to prank people.

01:05:47.000 It's like pri pre uh uh Jackass.

01:05:51.000 Uh yeah, but I'm trying to think of the thing they had on MTV.

01:05:54.000 That they did with all the celebrities.

01:05:56.000 Couldn't think.

01:05:56.000 Oh, punk got it.

01:05:59.000 OJ was doing that?

01:06:00.000 No, but he's a big thing.

01:06:01.000 Everybody would just run away.

01:06:02.000 So he did it to a lady like walked up to her hotel room with a knife. 0.87

01:06:05.000 Oh my god.

01:06:06.000 That was one of his scenes?

01:06:08.000 Yeah.

01:06:09.000 Jesus Christ.

01:06:11.000 You got juiced is what it was called.

01:06:12.000 You got juice.

01:06:14.000 Damn.

01:06:15.000 But I don't I'm trying to find this.

01:06:17.000 Also the music video had a bunch of uh that was Naked Lady? 1.00

01:06:20.000 Yeah, it was aired on like uh pay-per-view, whatever that was the Spice Channel or something like that.

01:06:25.000 Huh.

01:06:25.000 Spike remember the Spice Channel?

01:06:28.000 Yeah.

01:06:29.000 Uh but that whole thing going from that verdict to try and going back to work.

01:06:37.000 It's a picture.

01:06:38.000 It's not something video.

01:06:39.000 Oh my gosh.

01:06:40.000 Yeah.

01:06:42.000 Look at that.

01:06:42.000 I remember one time we were uh filming news radio, it was in the middle of that North Hollywood shootout.

01:06:47.000 Do you remember that?

01:06:48.000 I do.

01:06:48.000 Yeah.

01:06:48.000 And we were watching it live on TV while trying to do a sitcom.

01:06:52.000 And we were like, we probably should take some time off here.

01:06:55.000 There's a fucking war going on in the middle of North Hollywood.

01:06:58.000 Wow.

01:06:59.000 Yeah, that was that involved a lot of cocaine and steroids too.

01:07:03.000 From the from the brother.

01:07:04.000 From the guys?

01:07:05.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:07:05.000 I know they were definitely on steroids.

01:07:07.000 Yeah.

01:07:07.000 But I think they were there was probably some Or meth.

01:07:10.000 Something like that.

01:07:11.000 I think it would have kept them there for l a lot longer.

01:07:14.000 Yeah.

01:07:15.000 For people don't know the story, these guys um did they h they rob a bank?

01:07:19.000 Is that what they did?

01:07:20.000 Yeah, but waited.

01:07:21.000 Yeah.

01:07:21.000 Like could have driven away.

01:07:23.000 Could have left with all the all all all the dough.

01:07:26.000 And they decided to get in a shootout with the cops.

01:07:28.000 Yeah.

01:07:29.000 And killed Cops.

01:07:31.000 Right?

01:07:31.000 Yes.

01:07:32.000 I mean, and they got killed.

01:07:33.000 A bunch of cops got hit.

01:07:35.000 And the cops were like horribly outgunned.

01:07:37.000 Oh, yeah.

01:07:38.000 Cops had their nine millimeter pistols and these guys have fucking machine guns and bulletproof vests.

01:07:43.000 Yeah.

01:07:43.000 Kevlar helmets and they had face masks.

01:07:46.000 Yeah.

01:07:47.000 Now do you support that when the dude finally kills himself that it was it a simultaneous sniper shot at the same time?

01:07:55.000 I never even looked into that.

01:07:56.000 Is that one of the consumers?

01:07:57.000 Well, it's just it's yeah, that's one thing that they claim.

01:08:01.000 That he got shot and shot himself at the exact same time.

01:08:06.000 At the exact same time.

01:08:07.000 It's possible.

01:08:07.000 But why would they like what does that serve?

01:08:10.000 Like what does that maybe they were already going to shoot him and he shot himself and they didn't think he was going to shoot himself and they pulled the trigger right when he did.

01:08:18.000 Got it.

01:08:18.000 That's what I would guess, if that's the case.

01:08:20.000 But it's not like they have to be let off the hook, because at that point that dude has to be put down.

01:08:24.000 Yeah.

01:08:25.000 I mean, one of the guys had already been shot, and he was shot in the leg and they didn't get him any medical help.

01:08:30.000 They knew he was going to bleed out.

01:08:31.000 You know, I think I think that was the case.

01:08:34.000 I think he got shot in his femoral artery.

01:08:36.000 Yeah, the first the first guy that says he died by this is from Wikipedia.

01:08:40.000 He died by suicide via gunshot to the head from his handgun simultaneously being hit by rifle fire from LAPD officers with one round striking and severing his spine.

01:08:48.000 Whoa.

01:08:50.000 The other guy got shot twenty over twenty-nine times and died from blood loss.

01:08:54.000 Wow.

01:08:56.000 I mean, what are the odds that the...

01:08:58.000 Crazy.

01:08:58.000 That the thing with the...

01:09:00.000 Yeah.

01:09:00.000 That's kind of like...

01:09:01.000 Well, it sounds like there were a lot of bullets were flying in his direction.

01:09:04.000 There were 2,000 rounds were found.

01:09:08.000 Jesus, 3,000. 0.54

01:09:10.000 Like what is that weigh?

01:09:12.000 Like if you're carting that around and you've got a whole duffel of cash.

01:09:16.000 Yeah, you must have a heavy trunk.

01:09:18.000 Yeah.

01:09:19.000 Yeah, that is bananas.

01:09:20.000 Half was the police, but wow.

01:09:23.000 Still.

01:09:24.000 Imagine being in that neighborhood.

01:09:28.000 I think that's right.

01:09:32.000 Well the cops like went to a gun store, right?

01:09:34.000 Didn't they?

01:09:35.000 I think they didn't.

01:09:36.000 Like right when it started, and they were like, whatever you got.

01:09:38.000 You know, give us your biggest boar rifle, you know, whatever you got.

01:09:42.000 We'll take it.

01:09:43.000 Yeah.

01:09:43.000 How much ammo you got?

01:09:45.000 I mean, how long did that go on for?

01:09:48.000 Uh about an hour.

01:09:49.000 Wow.

01:09:51.000 They had homemade body armor, SWAT team wasn't ready for that.

01:09:54.000 They had to commandeer an armored vehicle to evacuate wounded people.

01:09:58.000 Uh yeah, then they uh that's that kind of sparked the debate for police to get more power.

01:10:04.000 Jeez.

01:10:06.000 Yeah, that was a that was kind of a that was a turning point moment.

01:10:08.000 Now if you're a real conspiracy theorist, then you say, oh, MK Ultra tricked those guys into doing that so that the cops can get better to get militarized and yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:10:17.000 Well, this is the problem with conspiracies.

01:10:19.000 People who try uh you attribute them to everything.

01:10:22.000 Right.

01:10:24.000 Everything's a conspiracy.

01:10:25.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:10:26.000 But then when they do that, they kind of um they they they they uh uh harm the credibility of the ones that that can really be you know considered for for you know for for the for how we know them to be.

01:10:43.000 Yeah, and after all the extensive research, you know.

01:10:47.000 No doubt.

01:10:48.000 Yeah, there's real ones.

01:10:49.000 But I think that's also part of the thing reason why you know some really silly conspiracy theories get pushed.

01:10:56.000 I think they get pushed by bots, and I think they get pushed by paid accounts.

01:11:00.000 To water down the real ones, yeah.

01:11:02.000 To make them look stupid and they're like attach them, attach a really stupid conspiracy to a one that's legitimate.

01:11:08.000 Right.

01:11:08.000 And then it discredits the legitimate one.

01:11:10.000 Yeah, it's almost like, you know, not to introduce this, but just from afar, it's almost like the uh a lot of the QAnon stuff kind of had that effect just you know.

01:11:22.000 Um I didn't dig deep into that and don't, you know, and only know just the just the basic you know, talking points about it.

01:11:30.000 But um, but one thing I did see that was felt like a uh a constant was that there was always uh the any time they'd mentioned something that was just completely screwy, it was followed up with the ones that that that we believe to be real.

01:11:46.000 Right.

01:11:46.000 You know, the just kind of this big just this uh kind of just put them all in the same stuff to bullshit.

01:11:54.000 Exactly, yeah, and just just stirred that cauldron, you know.

01:11:57.000 Yeah, that's a very convenient way to bury truth.

01:12:00.000 The QAnon documentary on HBO was great.

01:12:03.000 Uh Enter the Fire, that was called Yeah, and uh something.

01:12:10.000 I didn't see it.

01:12:12.000 Into the storm.

01:12:12.000 Oh, okay.

01:12:13.000 It's really good.

01:12:14.000 Is it?

01:12:14.000 Yeah it's a multi part thing on all the people that were involved in 4chan and the creation of QAnon.

01:12:21.000 Okay, they think the original guy was, and they think another guy took it over after a while and took over the account.

01:12:27.000 Got it.

01:12:28.000 And it seems like they were just kind of fucking around at first.

01:12:33.000 But it's not definitive.

01:12:36.000 Like he's got some really good evidence that points in that direction, but it's it's just hard to know.

01:12:40.000 And you know, everyone always thought that it was someone inside the White House, there was some like secret person inside the White House.

01:12:46.000 It doesn't seem like this documentary believes that.

01:12:48.000 The guy made this documentary, but he pins it on one guy in particular that's a a tech nerd that seems to have all of the attributes of someone who could pull off a QAnon type deal.

01:13:00.000 Check out everybody super smart, you know, internet shit poster, you know, running 4chan, you know, and like that's the whole thing over there.

01:13:11.000 It's like get people to do stuff that's stupid.

01:13:13.000 Right.

01:13:13.000 Like they got women to free bleed.

01:13:16.000 They they start pushing this idea that you you know it's uh the patriarchy's making you wear a tampon and you should just your menstrual cycle should just flow in your pants and who cares.

01:13:26.000 And this is like a s a sign of your strong femininity. 1.00

01:13:29.000 It was just them being crazy, and then a bunch of women just adopted it. 0.53

01:13:34.000 Wow.

01:13:34.000 Not for long.

01:13:35.000 Right.

01:13:35.000 It's gross.

01:13:36.000 They were like, This is stupid.

01:13:38.000 Probably last a couple weeks.

01:13:39.000 But but a bunch of women but it's that's people are really susceptible. 1.00

01:13:43.000 You could get people to do that.

01:13:45.000 Not everybody.

01:13:46.000 Right.

01:13:46.000 But it's just like the hate Ashbury free clinic thing.

01:13:48.000 Not everybody's gonna join your cult.

01:13:50.000 Right.

01:13:50.000 But if you open up a free clinic, you're gonna get enough, you know, lost children that come in through your doors.

01:13:57.000 Well, they're gonna need your legit services to start with.

01:14:00.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:14:02.000 Exactly.

01:14:03.000 Yeah.

01:14:04.000 You gotta sort it out.

01:14:06.000 Right.

01:14:07.000 Yeah.

01:14:07.000 It's just nuts that that that's our government.

01:14:11.000 That's our our daddies, our our government daddies, the people that we're supposed to be looking to to help us lead a prosperous life and secure our standing in the world and make sure we've grow financially, and these motherfuckers did all that. 0.99

01:14:26.000 Yeah.

01:14:28.000 Yeah, well, you know, uh ultimate power, right?

01:14:31.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:14:32.000 Yeah.

01:14:33.000 In any form.

01:14:35.000 Well, they bring it back to stardom.

01:14:37.000 Like that's a weird power to get somebody.

01:14:40.000 It's uh especially when you're 21 years old.

01:14:43.000 Like you were.

01:14:43.000 Yeah.

01:14:44.000 It's a weird power.

01:14:45.000 Weird amount of freedom, weird amount of like people expecting you to be kind of wild.

01:14:50.000 Sure.

01:14:52.000 Yeah, and um again, that thing you talked about where you watch it happen to others, and then suddenly it's it's it's you.

01:15:00.000 Um it's uh it it's it's a lot more.

01:15:05.000 It's a lot more intoxicating.

01:15:07.000 And then I would always think, okay, so why why how were they able to control it?

01:15:13.000 Why didn't why didn't I see them enjoying it at this level?

01:15:18.000 And it wasn't about I'm gonna show them the way they should have been doing it.

01:15:22.000 It was just about, hey guys, okay, cool.

01:15:24.000 No, it's it's it it it it finally made its way over here, and and it it it can go to eleven, you know, and and and not burn the whole house down, you know, when it was still fun, when it was still creative and and and productive on some level, you know.

01:15:42.000 Um because it wasn't about uh it was still having to show up, and it was still you know, carving out enough time for the party, but also reserving enough uh you know energy for the job.

01:15:58.000 Right.

01:15:58.000 You know that's the balance.

01:15:59.000 That's the balance, and some people pull it off.

01:16:02.000 Some people they're really disciplined and they pull off the work and then they pull off the partying.

01:16:08.000 Right, right.

01:16:08.000 And I I was able to maintain that for for a long time, you know, and even when it flamed out like those early rehabs, and and there was always like there was a job like the day I got out.

01:16:20.000 Wow, you know, scripts showing up in rehab, and it's like they're just they're just they they want you to get they want you to get well, okay?

01:16:27.000 They want you to get better, but you know, as soon as you're out of here, you know, we got we got some good stuff for you to look at.

01:16:33.000 There's also unfortunately a romantic notion of a guy getting out of rehab.

01:16:39.000 Interesting.

01:16:39.000 Right.

01:16:40.000 Interesting.

01:16:40.000 How many cop shows start with a guy who's down on a dumps putting a pizza in a blender for breakfast?

01:16:47.000 You know what I mean?

01:16:48.000 Like really like at his lowest of low points.

01:16:51.000 Right.

01:16:51.000 Drinking, and then maybe his daughter cries and he throws the bottles into the trash can is like, oh I'm done.

01:16:57.000 And now he's back.

01:16:58.000 And there's a romantic thing of getting your shit together.

01:17:01.000 Sure.

01:17:01.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:17:02.000 It's like Charlie's bad.

01:17:03.000 Better than ever.

01:17:04.000 Yeah.

01:17:05.000 You know?

01:17:05.000 Yeah.

01:17:05.000 And it's uh it's you know everybody's rooting for you again.

01:17:09.000 Yeah.

01:17:09.000 You know?

01:17:10.000 And they and they and they're expecting the the the guy to deliver with passion now, passion.

01:17:16.000 Real life experience.

01:17:17.000 He was a drug addict.

01:17:18.000 Exactly.

01:17:19.000 Yeah.

01:17:19.000 Look at Robert Downey Jr. now.

01:17:21.000 Right.

01:17:21.000 Yeah.

01:17:22.000 People love that.

01:17:23.000 They love that.

01:17:24.000 But the same thing was happening to Downey when when he when when he was in rehab, or maybe when he was even in the pen when they um what people were bringing him.

01:17:33.000 I think he was I think they brought him Ally McBeal when he was still in jail.

01:17:38.000 And I don't think I think he still got high after that.

01:17:42.000 You know, and my dad would always be like yelling at the television.

01:17:45.000 It's like, stop rewarding his this behavior.

01:17:48.000 Stop rewarding it.

01:17:50.000 Let him let him let him sit in those consequences.

01:17:53.000 Not out of judgment or out of punishment or you know, just out of love, you know.

01:17:57.000 To help him get his shit together.

01:17:58.000 Yeah.

01:17:59.000 You keep letting them fuck up over and over again, they'll continue to fuck up.

01:18:03.000 Yeah.

01:18:04.000 But if there's always a carrot the day you walk out, you know, something to something to chase.

01:18:08.000 And and and and a soft landing.

01:18:10.000 Yeah.

01:18:11.000 You know?

01:18:12.000 That's what was really interesting about this, you know, this this uh this decades, decade long time out that I got that I got put into, you know.

01:18:23.000 Um which, you know, at some point that the punishment has to just sort of fit the crime, right?

01:18:28.000 Um and uh yeah, it was it was it it felt like it had uh it was a little bit longer than it should be.

01:18:36.000 It should have been, yeah.

01:18:38.000 Yeah, I don't remember any murder charges, you know.

01:18:41.000 Um but at the same time um there's not a chance that I that I could have d done the the two projects that I've that wow the book came out yesterday and the doc comes out today, you know.

01:18:55.000 Um I c I couldn't have done either un unless I had the kind of perspective and distance from all of that that I that I was able to to to get to find, you know.

01:19:06.000 You've been in sober for how long?

01:19:08.000 Seven years?

01:19:09.000 Coming up on eight.

01:19:10.000 Eight years.

01:19:10.000 Yeah, be eight in December.

01:19:12.000 That probably helped a lot to be away from everything to for you to achieve that.

01:19:17.000 Absolutely.

01:19:18.000 Yeah.

01:19:19.000 Yeah.

01:19:19.000 I mean, I was still doing things to uh you you know, just kind of stay in the mix a little bit and you you know, I do signings, I do speaking engagements, do stuff like that.

01:19:27.000 But it was also like it's like as soon as I quit drinking, all my kids started showing up again.

01:19:34.000 And you know, Sam and Lola were living there, and then they'd they'd they'd cycle back with Denise and then Bob and Max would show up and then they'd Brooke would come back and like, okay, so he he's gonna be here and then Lola would show back up.

01:19:46.000 So my house was kind of like it's kinda like this, it was like a clubhouse, you know.

01:19:51.000 Um I write in the book that my that that that my vacancy sign, uh you know, f for for those children um all always always hangs facing out, you know.

01:20:02.000 So it was you know, being being called to a to to a much more responsible and complicated uh set of responsibilities and and and order, you know, and just having to do stuff that they they didn't care about, you know, uh uh writing of a show or response to a movie or any like popularity or or IMDB uh y you know, stuff.

01:20:25.000 They they were just like, you know, with the basic needs and getting to school and help with this and so it was really cool to like suddenly just be that that's the only stuff that that that mattered to the people that matter the most.

01:20:40.000 And so um and and yeah, it but you're right, that that none of that could happen if I was away on location or having to be at a studio every week or but um yeah, I think it's I but it was about the time that it that it created, you know, so um and and it it's interesting that that I'm not I'm not like I'm not looking at this as a as a comeback, you know.

01:21:09.000 Um it's uh it's it's a I think it's a reset.

01:21:12.000 I think it's a reset.

01:21:14.000 You know?

01:21:14.000 And I and I didn't I didn't um I didn't rely on anything that I've done before.

01:21:21.000 Never written a book.

01:21:22.000 Never done a documentary, you know.

01:21:25.000 But to come back with two projects that um everybody seems to be really excited about.

01:21:30.000 Documentary is very entertaining.

01:21:32.000 Awesome.

01:21:32.000 Thank you.

01:21:32.000 It's very entertaining.

01:21:33.000 It's it's really well done, like the way it's put together, and it's just so the stories are fucking bananas.

01:21:40.000 It's just so It's so bananas.

01:21:43.000 It's the the whole thing was just so nuts.

01:21:46.000 But you know, like I said, everybody loves the story of someone getting their shit together.

01:21:50.000 And uh that's a great accomplishment of being sober for almost eight years.

01:21:54.000 It really is.

01:21:55.000 Thank you.

01:21:56.000 Yeah.

01:21:57.000 And you know, it's um people are gonna yell at me because of how I I deal with that with the AA in the book, and that's fine.

01:22:03.000 I just speak to my personal experiences.

01:22:05.000 I'm not I'm not sure.

01:22:06.000 How do you deal with it?

01:22:07.000 Um that I I I tried it for a long time.

01:22:11.000 I I for a combined twenty-one years, um, and just decided that that I had to give this give this a go on my own.

01:22:19.000 So you just do it completely on your own.

01:22:21.000 You don't have any uh person you call or any no.

01:22:28.000 I mean there's people that that are sober that I still talk to and you don't have a sponsor or something.

01:22:33.000 I don't know.

01:22:34.000 I don't know.

01:22:36.000 No.

01:22:36.000 Um I know it does help some people.

01:22:38.000 Of course.

01:22:39.000 And that's why I don't want to say that it's I I'm not recommending that this is another buttons.

01:22:46.000 You're just saying your truth.

01:22:47.000 This is how you do it.

01:22:48.000 I had a very good friend who was an alcoholic who quit one day.

01:22:51.000 He crashed his car, ran from the cops on foot, got arrested, and then he's like, What am I doing with my life?

01:22:57.000 I'm done.

01:22:58.000 Hey, quit. 0.99

01:22:59.000 Like that day that there.

01:23:01.000 Never had a drink again.

01:23:02.000 I knew him for twenty years after that.

01:23:04.000 It happens.

01:23:04.000 It can happen.

01:23:05.000 Yeah.

01:23:07.000 But I but I I think that I that I do have the experience of all of that time in and around the rooms.

01:23:13.000 You know, and and that's not to say that I don't still remember a couple of nuggets, a couple of things that still stuck with me that I still thought you still you still see as valuable.

01:23:24.000 Right.

01:23:24.000 You know.

01:23:25.000 But um it's there's a there's a line in the book that it's it's it's it's hard to ask for help when when somebody else has raised your hand for you.

01:23:36.000 You know, interventions, you called into a thing, you're told to do it, and you're just all you're doing is just counting the days.

01:23:42.000 Yeah, that's the part of the documentary too when they the first intervention when you got brought into a room and everybody's sitting there waiting for you.

01:23:49.000 You thought it was a party.

01:23:50.000 Well, yeah, I mean I was a little suspicious because it's nine a.m.

01:23:54.000 Why is dad having a nine a.m. birthday party?

01:23:56.000 Right.

01:23:57.000 Unless we're going to Magic Mountain.

01:23:59.000 Right.

01:23:59.000 That's usually the time you leave.

01:24:01.000 Right.

01:24:02.000 That's usually for a seven-year-old, right?

01:24:04.000 Right.

01:24:04.000 Um Yeah, no, that would that was wild.

01:24:07.000 Um that is something that I can still see as it happened on the day.

01:24:13.000 Really?

01:24:13.000 Turning that corner in the hallway into my parents' living room and like and st my brain is still trying to turn it into a birthday party.

01:24:22.000 My brain or insisted that that's what we're there for.

01:24:25.000 You know?

01:24:26.000 That's funny.

01:24:27.000 And it just when it starts to dawn on you.

01:24:29.000 Like, have you ever taken a sip of something that was in the wrong bottle, but your brain saw the label.

01:24:34.000 Uh huh.

01:24:34.000 And so your m it takes your body like a half a second.

01:24:37.000 Yeah, to catch up to that's not those don't match.

01:24:40.000 Uh-huh.

01:24:40.000 Those don't match.

01:24:41.000 Yeah.

01:24:42.000 Um Yeah, I have a story about that, but I probably shouldn't tell it anymore.

01:24:48.000 But um Yeah.

01:24:50.000 So that one didn't work.

01:24:50.000 It didn't work that way.

01:24:51.000 You had to do it on your own.

01:24:52.000 It it worked for a year.

01:24:54.000 It worked for a year.

01:24:56.000 But then like as is in the in the dock, I'm at I'm at you know, Cage's house, and I on on the anniversary on the one year, I find that beer in his fridge.

01:25:06.000 Oh.

01:25:06.000 I'm like, well, that's there for a reason.

01:25:09.000 He's just caused this He's caused this to celebrate That's not an accident Yeah.

01:25:15.000 And just didn't even think twice.

01:25:17.000 Wow.

01:25:17.000 Just was like, ha, finally.

01:25:20.000 Boom.

01:25:20.000 And now we're off to the races.

01:25:22.000 We're off to the races, yeah.

01:25:23.000 Wow.

01:25:23.000 How did you get sober this time?

01:25:27.000 I um I I'd gotten off the drugs.

01:25:32.000 Gotten off the dope.

01:25:33.000 But you when I say dope, that's always coke.

01:25:35.000 Never heroin.

01:25:36.000 It was never never a heroine guy.

01:25:39.000 I I'd been off that geez, probably over ten years, you know.

01:25:45.000 And so I mean uh uh uh more than ten years s like sitting here today.

01:25:49.000 So I had I didn't I hadn't fucked around with any of that shit for a few years.

01:25:53.000 I was just I was I just committed to drinking, you know.

01:25:56.000 And then found that to be like the most unmanageable drug um that that I've ever tried to navigate.

01:26:07.000 Drinking drinking, yeah, drinking more than cocaine.

01:26:11.000 Yeah, because there's never a time when you can't get it, you know.

01:26:15.000 And and when I had made the decision that I okay, I'm just going to drink.

01:26:20.000 Um I treated it like I did drugs, you know.

01:26:24.000 Yeah.

01:26:25.000 But it um it's it's it's it's it's really kind of it's it's very accepted.

01:26:32.000 And it's it's it's it's very socially ingrained, you know.

01:26:35.000 It's like it's it's it didn't work.

01:26:37.000 Yeah, it's always Miller time.

01:26:38.000 Yeah, you want to smoke a joint some in front of someone, they might be like, Hey, what do you think's going on here?

01:26:43.000 Yeah, you want to have a drink in front of someone completely normal.

01:26:45.000 Sure.

01:26:45.000 Everyone does it.

01:26:46.000 Sure.

01:26:46.000 Yeah.

01:26:47.000 Um but so um I I knew the way my body was starting to react and that the way I was starting to feel, and and and just it it just I I I couldn't feel it how I used to, even at like really like powerful doses, you know.

01:27:08.000 I just could and that that that got depressing.

01:27:11.000 That that wasn't like I'll just drink twice as much now.

01:27:14.000 That was like, damn.

01:27:16.000 The thing I relied on is now just like told me Yeah.

01:27:20.000 Yeah, but it's no much of a tolerance.

01:27:23.000 Our relationship is now different, you know.

01:27:26.000 Yeah.

01:27:26.000 And so there was a day and it's it's it's in the book, and and I I you know, I was a morning drinker.

01:27:35.000 I I loved uh you know, spiking my coffee.

01:27:39.000 That's like for me, it was like the best time to drink.

01:27:42.000 I mean you're not gonna get shit done the rest of the day, but that's when I felt it.

01:27:46.000 When that's when I could still feel it was in the morning, you know.

01:27:49.000 So I'm on like my third McAllen coffee or whatever, and my daughter Sam like calls from she she's at the house and calls and says, Hey, um, what time are we leaving?

01:28:00.000 Like to to go where.

01:28:02.000 She had a hair appointment and it was a Sunday, I think, or a Saturday.

01:28:07.000 And I've never ever mixed uh the cups and the wheel.

01:28:13.000 Ever.

01:28:13.000 I've never had a DUI.

01:28:15.000 How about that?

01:28:16.000 That's awesome.

01:28:17.000 That's pretty good, right?

01:28:18.000 Yeah.

01:28:18.000 I just I just decided like a long time ago, like when I was like seventeen, that that was never gonna happen.

01:28:26.000 Good for you.

01:28:26.000 And I was living in a limo back then.

01:28:29.000 There was, you know, the occasional cab, but these days, these days to get busted for drinking and driving with the available transportation that is literally 15 choices in your hand.

01:28:42.000 Right.

01:28:43.000 It's there's no excuse.

01:28:44.000 Right.

01:28:44.000 And so I call I called Tony, I said, Tony, well, you know, I can't drive, you gotta help me get Sam to this thing.

01:28:50.000 And and so he was like, Oh uh, I'll I'll be right here in 20 minutes.

01:28:54.000 We got her to the appointment, it went great, and there was there was a moment in the car driving back, and and um I I I describe it in the book, you know, and I I could see her in two mirrors, the visor and and the side view.

01:29:09.000 And she was just kind of sitting back there and I I'm not saying that I know exactly what she was thinking, but I could feel what I what I'm pretty sure she was, and it was just this thing about um, you know, why it's yeah, it's cool that dad did this, but why why isn't dad driving again?

01:29:28.000 Right.

01:29:29.000 You know, why why is there always disappointment?

01:29:31.000 Yeah, and it's not nothing with Tony, yeah, you know, he's been around forever and you know, and and it was so we got we got back from that.

01:29:42.000 Um and and I and it was j there was something that I couldn't shake.

01:29:45.000 It was something that stayed with me, just the images of her.

01:29:48.000 This little 13-year-old kid in the back seat.

01:29:50.000 And her dad can't even take her to like a just a basic, just like up the highway to a hair appointment.

01:29:59.000 Like that that got that was complicated.

01:30:02.000 You know?

01:30:02.000 Yeah.

01:30:03.000 And I was like, what am I doing?

01:30:05.000 And then I I just sat inside I sat inside of that for a while because it didn't feel good.

01:30:11.000 And I and I thought, okay, what can I do to not to stop feeling like this?

01:30:16.000 The math is pretty simple at that point, you know.

01:30:18.000 Yeah.

01:30:19.000 And um, you know, wasn't doing gonna do rehab, I wasn't gonna do a big dramatic uh yeah you know, you know, the life uh turnaround or I was just gonna just make a decision and stick to it.

01:30:32.000 Mm-hmm.

01:30:33.000 And you know, I took a few values, drank a few beers, and then b the next day, just woke up and said I'm done and didn't care.

01:30:43.000 I didn't I made a decision.

01:30:44.000 I wasn't gonna care how I felt physically.

01:30:47.000 Was just gonna like just grit and bear it.

01:30:50.000 Yeah.

01:30:50.000 How long did it take before you felt okay?

01:30:52.000 About three days.

01:30:54.000 The story I had written that was gonna be a month was just like that that that that was fake.

01:30:59.000 And it was and so and then it just coincidentally, um it happened to be my oldest daughter, uh Cassandra's birthday when I quit, December twelfth, you know.

01:31:11.000 And it was just like, okay, that's all aligned.

01:31:14.000 Um and then um then something else happened after that because everybody's gonna get a little squirrely.

01:31:22.000 Like it can put sh the problem with guy like me is that and people like me is you're able to put things back together really quickly.

01:31:33.000 Right?

01:31:33.000 Right.

01:31:34.000 And and kind of just kind of reassemble the pieces.

01:31:37.000 So you're not as scared to go off the rails.

01:31:39.000 Right, right, right.

01:31:40.000 And um and so then I got a call, um this is the post you know, already had HIV for for several years at this point.

01:31:50.000 I get a call that there's a new medicine, right?

01:31:52.000 This is about a month after the Sam thing, right?

01:31:56.000 And they're like, look, we want you to try this thing, because it's it's it's a much smaller cocktail, it's much less toxicity and and uh no s very few side effects.

01:32:06.000 We think you're gonna do great on it, right?

01:32:08.000 They said, but you can't drink on it.

01:32:11.000 The other one you could drink your fucking face off.

01:32:14.000 Like like a you could you could drink like a pirate on the other one, which they shouldn't have told me that you can.

01:32:20.000 You know and so um so I said, okay, great.

01:32:24.000 So I tried that one, and then it was you know, it was working great.

01:32:28.000 But they said, okay, uh if you can just stay off the booze, um it's gonna keep working the light, light, light like it is, you know.

01:32:38.000 So then this other thing showed up in addition to that, like just in in concert with it.

01:32:45.000 So now I had a couple things going on.

01:32:47.000 You know, let's keep this thing, this this uh evil stowaway is what I like to call it. 0.98

01:32:53.000 Let's keep that thing in the you know, at bay.

01:32:56.000 Uh-huh.

01:32:57.000 And and let's do you you know, re rebuild every relationship that matters in your life, you know, while you're still here.

01:33:05.000 Did you have a revelation after a while after you were sober for a while, where you stop and think, like, why was I getting so fucked up? 0.82

01:33:14.000 Like what was I what was I trying to avoid or what was I trying to enhance or what what was the purpose?

01:33:22.000 Like what was I what what bothered me so much that I couldn't be sober?

01:33:25.000 Interesting, yeah.

01:33:27.000 Yeah.

01:33:28.000 Um I think f yeah, it it I I think it was more a void earlier, like it or earlier in life, like avoid the pressures of fame, avoid the the fears of of commitment or relationship or or being uh exposed as a fucking fraud at some point, you know.

01:33:49.000 Um I think that was earlier um and I think enhance came later that that um trying to just make situations just feel more exciting or cooler or or more you know sexier or you know what I'm saying?

01:34:07.000 Like yeah.

01:34:08.000 But it's interesting that that you presented both sides of that, you know, avoid enhance.

01:34:13.000 Yeah.

01:34:14.000 Yeah, I I I I relate to both, you know.

01:34:18.000 Um Yeah, I think that's a good thing to tell people too, because uh everybody wants to hear the drug st like Bill Hicks had a great joke about nobody ever hears uh great drug stories.

01:34:29.000 Right.

01:34:30.000 You know, you only hear the bad ones.

01:34:32.000 You know, and it is true.

01:34:35.000 But the reason why people do it is because it's fun.

01:34:38.000 Like it can ruin your life.

01:34:40.000 But it's also really fun.

01:34:42.000 That's why people do it.

01:34:43.000 Sure.

01:34:44.000 This is the it's important for people to know because you don't want 'em to think you're lying to them.

01:34:48.000 You know, and for them to hear you sober and happy and go, okay, that's possible.

01:34:56.000 You can get there because this guy's admitting what getting high was.

01:35:01.000 You know, like there's a there's a scene in the documentary where you're talking about the first time you smoke crack where this girl's giving you a blowjob while you're smoking crack, and it was like the greatest feeling of all time.

01:35:11.000 Yeah.

01:35:11.000 Like, yeah.

01:35:12.000 Like, I think that's important to say.

01:35:14.000 That hasn't been topped.

01:35:18.000 I I probably shouldn't say that.

01:35:21.000 I don't care.

01:35:22.000 Yeah.

01:35:23.000 That hasn't been topped.

01:35:24.000 Have you ever heard Hunter Biden talk about crack?

01:35:27.000 I haven't.

01:35:27.000 No.

01:35:28.000 He was on the Channel 5 show.

01:35:30.000 And uh he gives this ode to crack that made me want to immediately go smoke crack.

01:35:36.000 Seriously.

01:35:37.000 Yeah, because Hunter Biden's a very smart guy.

01:35:39.000 Um I don't think people think of him that way because of the laptop thing, but he's very intelligent.

01:35:43.000 Right.

01:35:44.000 And um very articulate.

01:35:47.000 So when he's explaining like the effects of crack and how different it is and how incredible it is and the euphoria of it, and it's like he's literally saying that he's like getting the itch while he sitting there sober, talking about working on a sobriety, trying to keep it together.

01:36:05.000 Interesting after all it publicly shamed for being out of control and telling talking about crack like a lover that you lost in a a drowning accident.

01:36:15.000 Wow.

01:36:17.000 It's it's crazy.

01:36:19.000 I get that.

01:36:21.000 I get that.

01:36:22.000 That makes sense.

01:36:22.000 I bet you do.

01:36:23.000 There's a moment in the dock where I tell this the Sandy story.

01:36:27.000 Yeah.

01:36:27.000 And I say, wow, that one actually got me kind of Yeah, I could feel that.

01:36:31.000 Yeah.

01:36:32.000 Yeah.

01:36:33.000 Um That's the problem.

01:36:35.000 The problem is it's That's the problem, yeah.

01:36:37.000 Yeah.

01:36:37.000 The problem is Did you I no you don't have to did you ever try it or not?

01:36:42.000 No, I never even did Coke.

01:36:43.000 Oh, you never okay.

01:36:45.000 No, when I was in high school, I have a good buddy of mine and his cousin was selling Coke.

01:36:49.000 Okay.

01:36:50.000 And his cousin who was super normal, I knew him forever, great guy, super cool guy.

01:36:57.000 All of a sudden, he became weird and pale and lost all this weight, and it was like he got bit by a vampire.

01:37:03.000 And him and his girlfriend were selling coke and they would just watch TV and do coke.

01:37:08.000 Wow.

01:37:08.000 And they had like this attic apartment, and it was like he had gotten bit by a vampire.

01:37:14.000 That's how it felt like to me.

01:37:15.000 I was like he just lost his whole life to coke.

01:37:18.000 And then I saw some other kids that had coke problems around me where they were just dying to get coke.

01:37:24.000 And I was like, this is a bad drug.

01:37:26.000 And back then I think it was actually Coke.

01:37:29.000 You know, I don't even know.

01:37:31.000 At least like 80% of it, yeah.

01:37:33.000 In the nineteen eighties, I don't know if they were cutting it with anything, but I made a decision at one point in time in my life, no, I don't want to have nothing to do with that one.

01:37:42.000 That one seems to rob people's lives.

01:37:44.000 You just stuck to that.

01:37:45.000 Yeah, it just seemed to me like that one can make you a loser.

01:37:48.000 And then did you roll in circles over the years where it was prevalent?

01:37:51.000 Or I knew some people that get did coke, and it never worked out well.

01:37:56.000 I didn't know anybody who did coke who like kept their life together.

01:38:00.000 Everybody who did Coke was like barely together, barely hanging on, always off the rails.

01:38:06.000 I think there's like one guy.

01:38:08.000 One guy out there, some superhero.

01:38:09.000 He said that maintained it all those years was was Jack Nicholson.

01:38:14.000 Oh yeah.

01:38:14.000 I think he I think he's thinking the only guy.

01:38:17.000 Right.

01:38:17.000 I mean, do we know of anybody else?

01:38:19.000 Well, they might not be public about it.

01:38:21.000 Right.

01:38:22.000 You know.

01:38:22.000 But what about the rumors that that Jack always traveled with like a doctor?

01:38:27.000 Have you ever heard this shit?

01:38:28.000 Have you heard these stories?

01:38:30.000 No.

01:38:31.000 No?

01:38:31.000 No.

01:38:31.000 Oh, yeah, that he had a doctor that tr that that carried his coke or distributed and only gave him just the just what he needed.

01:38:40.000 Oh.

01:38:40.000 Yeah, no, I don't know.

01:38:41.000 I mean, that's a movie star shit right there.

01:38:44.000 Exactly.

01:38:44.000 You get a doctor with a fucking leather satchel to carry your coke around.

01:38:48.000 Yeah, and it's just he's just close to it.

01:38:50.000 I'd make him wear a stethoscope everywhere you go, bro.

01:38:52.000 Has to.

01:38:53.000 You need to have a stethoscope on it.

01:38:54.000 Everybody's gotta know you're legit.

01:38:56.000 Yeah, but that's like that's one of the great like eighties rumors about Jack.

01:39:00.000 That's funny.

01:39:01.000 I never heard that rumor that's some guy.

01:39:03.000 That makes sense.

01:39:03.000 But then you'd be around Jack.

01:39:05.000 I was only around him a few times, but then you know he was cool as hell.

01:39:08.000 And you're always kind of looking like, all right, who's the bag man?

01:39:11.000 Who's his guy?

01:39:12.000 Right, right.

01:39:12.000 Where is he?

01:39:13.000 You know, or who's the bagman for that night, you know?

01:39:16.000 Yeah.

01:39:17.000 Like, was it a team of doctors that rotated?

01:39:19.000 Dangerfield party till the end.

01:39:22.000 He uh he kept that trader rolling.

01:39:24.000 Yeah, he did.

01:39:27.000 We lived we lived in the same building for a while.

01:39:30.000 You in Dangerfield?

01:39:31.000 Yeah, we know it's that building in the book called the Wilshire on Wilshire.

01:39:35.000 Oh, wow.

01:39:36.000 And I, gosh, I maybe saw him twice.

01:39:39.000 I got in the elevator with him one time.

01:39:41.000 And and we'd we'd seen each other out, but never really had it like an elevator moment, you know.

01:39:47.000 And he goes, Hey kid, how are you doing?

01:39:49.000 You look great.

01:39:50.000 And he's like, he goes, hey, hey, what he goes at that.

01:39:53.000 Yeah, that's together with Kiddison.

01:39:55.000 Wow.

01:39:56.000 But in the elevator.

01:39:59.000 Look at Rod.

01:40:00.000 He looks funny just in his photo.

01:40:02.000 Yeah.

01:40:02.000 Just in the photo, you start laughing.

01:40:04.000 Doing nothing.

01:40:05.000 He was so good, dude.

01:40:07.000 I I can't tell you what happened that night.

01:40:10.000 I don't know where we were.

01:40:12.000 But it looks like the jacket is definitely circa eighty-nine ninety.

01:40:16.000 The um that looks like a backstage something that's on my jacket.

01:40:20.000 Right.

01:40:21.000 Yeah.

01:40:21.000 Probably at a poison concert or something.

01:40:24.000 Perhaps so we're in the elevator.

01:40:27.000 He says, Hey, uh cute, what are you what are you Puerto Rican, right?

01:40:30.000 And I and I said, No, I'm I'm I'm Spanish Irish.

01:40:33.000 And he says, uh, you don't know whether to start a parade or start a war.

01:40:38.000 And it's like doors open and he he just walks out.

01:40:42.000 He just had that on standby.

01:40:43.000 Or built it in the moment.

01:40:45.000 He probably built it in the moment.

01:40:46.000 Yeah.

01:40:47.000 And I was just like so I can't really ever describe my heritage without hearing his voice, you know.

01:40:54.000 Start a parade or start a war.

01:40:56.000 That's funny.

01:40:57.000 Just like, wow.

01:40:58.000 Just left me with that gold, you know.

01:41:00.000 We have his handwritten notes at our our comedy club in the green room.

01:41:04.000 Yeah, for one of his tonight show appearances.

01:41:05.000 So we have his handwritten notes framed to all the stuff he's gonna talk about.

01:41:09.000 Okay.

01:41:09.000 It's pretty cool.

01:41:10.000 Wow.

01:41:11.000 What and and would he would he stick to Yeah?

01:41:14.000 It's like his jokes and he had like the punchlines for like accented bold letters.

01:41:18.000 Oh, seriously.

01:41:19.000 He wrote it all out darker.

01:41:21.000 So it was he was like super organized, yeah.

01:41:22.000 Yeah, super organized.

01:41:23.000 Damn.

01:41:24.000 Well he to he stopped doing stand-up for a long time and he was selling aluminum siding.

01:41:28.000 And then he made it again when he was much older in life.

01:41:31.000 He came back and the thing that happened was from the time he stopped doing stand up to when he went back to having a regular job, he never stopped writing jokes.

01:41:40.000 Like his brain just worked that way.

01:41:41.000 So he was just always writing jokes.

01:41:43.000 So when he came back on a treasure truck.

01:41:45.000 Yeah.

01:41:46.000 Wow.

01:41:46.000 Yes.

01:41:47.000 And he just fucking stormed the gates when he came back.

01:41:49.000 Everybody's like, where's this guy been?

01:41:51.000 That's amazing.

01:41:52.000 Yeah.

01:41:53.000 Wow.

01:41:53.000 And then he became huge.

01:41:54.000 Back to school and the Ronnie Dangerfield HBO comedy specials and epic.

01:42:00.000 Yeah.

01:42:00.000 Oh, he's one of the all-time.

01:42:01.000 So he came back as do do doing stand-up.

01:42:03.000 I think he was in his forties.

01:42:06.000 Got got some heat again.

01:42:07.000 And that that activated the films.

01:42:09.000 Yeah, well, the stand-up he didn't have any heat before, but when he quit.

01:42:13.000 You know, he was just like kind of like getting by doing all right and got a job.

01:42:17.000 Quit.

01:42:18.000 Wow.

01:42:18.000 I think he might have quit for ten years.

01:42:20.000 Wow.

01:42:21.000 Yeah.

01:42:21.000 And then the whole time he was writing.

01:42:24.000 And then he's like, fuck it, I gotta do this, and then got back into comedy.

01:42:28.000 Wow.

01:42:28.000 I hope I'm not fucking that story up, but I think I'm I think I'm accurate with that.

01:42:32.000 See if you can find it.

01:42:33.000 Make sure that's true.

01:42:34.000 I'm 90% sure that's true.

01:42:36.000 But I know that he didn't make it until he was in his forties.

01:42:39.000 And uh I told this the other day, but I'll tell it again.

01:42:42.000 I used to work at Great Woods Center for the Performing Arts in Mansfield, Massachusetts.

01:42:47.000 I was security guy there.

01:42:48.000 Okay.

01:42:48.000 And uh I was backstage or by the by the outside of the backstage, and Ron D. Dangerfield would go on stage completely naked with a bathrobe on.

01:42:58.000 That's what he would wear.

01:42:59.000 And he was wearing a bathrobe backstage with slippers and just walking around.

01:43:04.000 It's like this guy's wild.

01:43:06.000 Wow.

01:43:06.000 And they're like, he goes on stage like that.

01:43:08.000 I'm like, shut the fuck up.

01:43:09.000 Was it partially closed at least?

01:43:11.000 Or it was just why?

01:43:12.000 Yeah, it was close.

01:43:12.000 Oh, okay.

01:43:14.000 But if you went in the green room, you were seeing his dick.

01:43:16.000 Because he's sitting there, he would just sit there, his dick could be hanging out, he didn't care.

01:43:20.000 Uh struggled financially for nine years, one performing as a singing waiter until he was fired before taking a job selling aluminum siding in the mid fifties to support his wife and family.

01:43:30.000 He later quipped so the nineteen sixties he started reviving his career.

01:43:34.000 Oh damn.

01:43:35.000 Yeah.

01:43:36.000 So somewhere close to ten years.

01:43:39.000 Still working as a salesman by day.

01:43:41.000 He returned to the stage performing at hotels in the Catskills Mountains, but still finding minimal success.

01:43:46.000 He fell into debt, about $20,000 by his own estimate.

01:43:49.000 Could get booked.

01:43:51.000 Dangerfield came to realize what he lacked was an image, well defined on stage persona that the audience could relate to, one that would distinguish him from other comics after being shunned by some premier comedy venues, he returned home where he became developing a character for whom nothing goes right.

01:44:07.000 Isn't that crazy?

01:44:09.000 Wow.

01:44:10.000 Damn.

01:44:11.000 Oh, look at this.

01:44:12.000 During Roy's comeback bid, who's Roy?

01:44:15.000 He was that uh when he was nineteen, he was Jack Roy.

01:44:19.000 Ohny Dangerfield.

01:44:23.000 Oh people recognize it.

01:44:25.000 When he was that checking in at hotels from now on.

01:44:28.000 Wanting to distinguish himself from longtime patrons who might have remembered him from the nineteen forties.

01:44:33.000 Roy asked club owner George McFadden to change his name.

01:44:37.000 He came up with Rodney Dangerfield.

01:44:40.000 Wow, he didn't want people to remember him as Jack Roy from back in the day.

01:44:44.000 He didn't like his old act.

01:44:45.000 Wow.

01:44:46.000 Wow.

01:44:48.000 He said, I don't know where it came from.

01:44:51.000 McFadden may have taken it from the Jack Benny program on NBC Radio, which first used Rodney Dangerfield as a character's name in 1941.

01:44:59.000 Ricky Nelson also used the pseudoman pseudonym in a nineteen sixty-two episode of The Adventures of Ozzy and Harriet.

01:45:07.000 Wow.

01:45:08.000 That's crazy.

01:45:12.000 Wow.

01:45:13.000 That's when he popped again.

01:45:15.000 That's amazing.

01:45:16.000 That's nuts.

01:45:17.000 Wow.

01:45:17.000 Go get him.

01:45:18.000 Yeah.

01:45:19.000 Maybe he didn't know whether to start a prayer or start a war.

01:45:23.000 He was a fun guy.

01:45:24.000 Uh I knew a lot of people who knew him.

01:45:26.000 I didn't get a chance to meet him.

01:45:28.000 I saw him once at the Laugh Factor.

01:45:30.000 I ran into him.

01:45:30.000 I said hi, but that was it.

01:45:31.000 I never really got a chance to talk to him.

01:45:32.000 So you did have a have a moment.

01:45:34.000 Yeah, one moment.

01:45:35.000 Okay.

01:45:35.000 Yeah.

01:45:36.000 It was he was uh just leaving the stage.

01:45:40.000 He was outside and he had some uh hot MILF with him.

01:45:44.000 Awesome, thank you.

01:45:45.000 I was like, you go, Rodney.

01:45:47.000 Why not?

01:45:48.000 Why not?

01:45:50.000 I think it was probably his wife.

01:45:52.000 He's his wife is uh who donated us these uh these um handwritten notes and also the photograph of them too.

01:46:00.000 It's pretty cool.

01:46:01.000 It's just there's a few guys like that that you know, without them, you you always wonder like where would comedy be?

01:46:07.000 Like where would it ever turn up?

01:46:10.000 Like so many people like Pryor and him and Lenny Bruce, so many people that just like changed everything.

01:46:17.000 Carlin.

01:46:18.000 Carlin.

01:46:18.000 Yeah.

01:46:19.000 So many people just changed Kinison.

01:46:21.000 Sure.

01:46:21.000 They just changed the whole thing.

01:46:23.000 But Dangerfield was one of the rare ones that introduced new comics to people.

01:46:27.000 Like those that's where everybody found out about Kinison, so everybody found out about Dice Clay, Don Marera, Lenny Clark, all these guys, uh Robert Schimmel, they all started out on the Rodney Dangerfield HBO comedy specials.

01:46:41.000 Wow.

01:46:41.000 Yeah.

01:46:42.000 So he he would have like have his favorite comedians.

01:46:46.000 He would just have like a show where he would like introduce his favorite comedians.

01:46:50.000 But he'd have to scout them at the clubs.

01:46:52.000 He would go see them.

01:46:53.000 So he'd just go out.

01:46:54.000 And he had his own club in New York City, Dangerfields.

01:46:57.000 Okay.

01:46:57.000 Yeah.

01:46:58.000 Wow.

01:46:59.000 But he was, you know, he was interested in promoting comedy too.

01:47:03.000 You know.

01:47:04.000 He was just a fucking amazing guy.

01:47:07.000 That's such a cool moment you had with him.

01:47:10.000 I can still I can see it.

01:47:12.000 I mean, it's like it's there's nothing tricky about that memory.

01:47:15.000 You know.

01:47:16.000 What was it like being with your dad while he was filming Apocalypse Now?

01:47:20.000 It w it was it was a lot of that in the book.

01:47:23.000 How old were you?

01:47:24.000 I was uh I was I went there as a ten-year-old.

01:47:27.000 Uh yeah, had my 11th birthday there.

01:47:30.000 Um spent a t a combined total of eight or nine months there, and that that was uh going back and forth, you know.

01:47:39.000 Um it was uh it was just it was in it wasn't just another country, it was another planet.

01:47:46.000 You know?

01:47:46.000 Um we'd seen you know, different parts of the world traveling with him, you know, Mexico, uh Italy, uh Switzerland, Germany, places like that, you know.

01:47:56.000 But then you get to the Philippines and it was just um you just got a sense that um wow, that this is all going on at the same time that we've been in Malibu, like kind of you know, uh having fun and and just doing cool shit.

01:48:17.000 And that and so you visit a place like that and get in the middle of it and and and engage in in in this entirely just this this just a new uh it's such a surreal reality.

01:48:30.000 Um and then, oh, wait a minute, they're here to make a movie and it's about a film that uh it's it's it's about a it's a film about a war that er that and barely ended like a year ago, right?

01:48:42.000 Yeah.

01:48:42.000 Fourteen months ago when it's Saigon Fall.

01:48:45.000 It was 75.

01:48:47.000 Right?

01:48:48.000 I think so.

01:48:48.000 Yeah, and they're and I mean it was like right at the tail end of it.

01:48:51.000 Um and so yeah, it was uh we you know we were able to do enough stuff like recreationally, you know, that w with th that there was a lake and you could water ski, you could fish, you could do those kind of things if you didn't want to go to the set with dad.

01:49:10.000 But once you went and saw the set where dad was, you didn't give a fuck about water sports or fish or anything because what what what what they'd built and and what they were trying to create was uh w was was mind blowing because you know, Coppola built Kurtz compound out of practical materials.

01:49:32.000 It wasn't like you know, like uh like plaster covered uh chicken wire and rebar.

01:49:39.000 These were like, you know, two ton boulders.

01:49:42.000 Yeah.

01:49:42.000 They brought in and started stacking in the jungle uh w and and you know, and then a lot of it would start sinking.

01:49:50.000 Couldn't build a foundation in in a river bank, right?

01:49:54.000 Right.

01:49:55.000 Um but then the just the mix of people and the talent and Dennis Hopper and Brando and Duvall and and it just it was every day felt uh c completely unique.

01:50:08.000 You there there was not there was no you you'd go to the set and you were going to see something completely different than what you saw the day before.

01:50:19.000 It was it was wild.

01:50:21.000 Wow.

01:50:21.000 Yeah, and and I I gravitated towards this gentleman named Fred Blau, who I mentioned in the book.

01:50:26.000 He was the key he was the key makeup artist, you know, FX guy.

01:50:29.000 And so he was building all the prosthetics for all the carnage you see in the movie.

01:50:34.000 You know, so I'd walk into a shop and there's the arms and legs and heads and But I knew it was all fake.

01:50:41.000 You know?

01:50:42.000 As a ten year old, when you start seeing how it's made and and you know, so gore um, I think I write in the book, um was never Gore in movies w was never emotional.

01:50:53.000 It w it was it was technical.

01:50:56.000 You know?

01:50:57.000 And but but but still kept me really curious about about how it was done and and just the the the the artisans behind it that that could create those effects.

01:51:08.000 How long were you over there for?

01:51:10.000 Uh a total of eight months.

01:51:11.000 Wow.

01:51:12.000 Maybe nine.

01:51:13.000 Yeah.

01:51:13.000 And it was it was ten years old.

01:51:15.000 Yeah, it was three at first, and then maybe four at first, and then we went back and then dad has the heart attack and then we went back and stayed for like another four or f four months, yeah.

01:51:28.000 So um yeah, it was and and people say, so you know, growing up on sets, you must have like dreamed about being an actor.

01:51:35.000 I'm like, yeah, until I got to the set that almost killed my dad, you know.

01:51:40.000 That's not a job.

01:51:41.000 You're just gonna like wrap your arms around and say, when can I start?

01:51:45.000 You know?

01:51:46.000 Yeah.

01:51:47.000 Um but it also um it it it just the scope of the filmmaking was really exciting and and we you know, I d I didn't really understand it as a ten or eleven year old.

01:52:01.000 Um but I knew I I I knew there was something about it that that that that required of a mu a much y you know, closer look and and I had a very keen interest in in just you know what it what it what what what what would it take to to like build this the you know the the this reality, this fake reality. 0.74

01:52:23.000 Oh, but wait, the subject is based in reality, but everything else around it is fake.

01:52:29.000 So That's a very strange experience for a ten year old.

01:52:32.000 It is, yeah on such a grand scale.

01:52:35.000 Exactly.

01:52:35.000 When it becomes what Apocalypse Now became.

01:52:38.000 Right.

01:52:39.000 Because it was like a culturally defining moment.

01:52:42.000 Yeah.

01:52:42.000 I mean, it was in it it's a movie that it kind of eclipses all other war movies.

01:52:50.000 It does.

01:52:50.000 It really does.

01:52:51.000 It does.

01:52:52.000 Yeah.

01:52:52.000 I don't I don't think there's been a film like it uh before or since I think um No, it's a true masterpiece.

01:53:01.000 It really is.

01:53:02.000 Yeah.

01:53:02.000 And and and there's no computers.

01:53:05.000 There's nothing generated.

01:53:07.000 It's all had to be there on the day.

01:53:09.000 And when you watch that, the the you know, when what when when Kilgore takes the beachhead, that chopper assault?

01:53:17.000 I mean, when you look at the just what they had what they committed to to bring that to the screen, it's just it's impossible.

01:53:27.000 And then you you you see some of the documentary stuff about he was like those were on loan from the Philippine Army, and then like midday they had to go fight the rebels somewhere else, and they told Francis, we gotta leave now with the choppers, and he's like, I have 18 cameras set up.

01:53:42.000 The whole the river is filled with bombs, where are you going?

01:53:45.000 We'll see you tomorrow.

01:53:47.000 Wow.

01:53:47.000 Stuff like that.

01:53:48.000 Yeah.

01:53:49.000 Wow.

01:53:50.000 Pretty wild.

01:53:52.000 Yeah.

01:53:52.000 But that must have like for you, like to eventually become an actor in Platoon.

01:53:59.000 That had to be s kind of surreal.

01:54:01.000 How does that happen?

01:54:02.000 Right.

01:54:03.000 How does that happen?

01:54:04.000 How does that happen eleven years later?

01:54:05.000 Yeah.

01:54:06.000 Yeah.

01:54:07.000 Or or ten.

01:54:08.000 Yeah.

01:54:08.000 Yeah, because I do I did Platoon at twenty.

01:54:11.000 Right.

01:54:11.000 Yeah.

01:54:12.000 So how do I go back to the same country ten years later?

01:54:15.000 Ten years later, with the same subject, right?

01:54:20.000 Right.

01:54:21.000 Narrate the fucking thing and then it it it it's elevated to be on par with the one of the how does the only films that gets mentioned in the same breath as apocalypse now when it comes to war films. 0.64

01:54:36.000 Yeah.

01:54:37.000 Yeah.

01:54:37.000 I'm a much bigger fan of Apocalypse than Platoon, and that is m primarily about just the the scope and the complication and and just what you know um uh uh difficulty factor.

01:54:54.000 Yeah.

01:54:54.000 Difficulty factor.

01:54:56.000 It took forever, yeah.

01:54:57.000 How many years did it take?

01:54:59.000 Um It was like eight or nine years, right?

01:55:02.000 It I d I don't know when uh Francis conceived it.

01:55:07.000 Um it came out in 79.

01:55:10.000 I think it c did it come out in August of 79.

01:55:14.000 How many let's just Google how many years it's August 79.

01:55:17.000 How many years did it take to make Apocalypse now?

01:55:20.000 I think it went way over budget.

01:55:22.000 Oh it did, oh yeah.

01:55:23.000 And by today's standards, that's like uh you know, that's like a Fox searchlight budget.

01:55:30.000 Right.

01:55:30.000 You know?

01:55:31.000 And Lawrence Fishburn was like what?

01:55:33.000 How old was he?

01:55:34.000 He started the film at 14.

01:55:35.000 The photography started March of 76.

01:55:41.000 And it came out in'79?

01:55:43.000 It was originally due to be released on Coppola's 38th birthday of April'77, so it took two extra years.

01:55:50.000 Wow.

01:55:51.000 And imagine So when was it when did the the project start?

01:55:54.000 Uh I mean varying times uh of discussions.

01:55:57.000 Casting started February 76 is when Steve McQueen dropped out.

01:56:02.000 So the So it's not as many years as I thought it was.

01:56:05.000 They shot with Harvey Keitel for a few weeks as Willard.

01:56:10.000 Did you know that and um then Francis it just was he he made the wrong choice?

01:56:19.000 Oh Harvey was doing it, you know, whatever he could, but Francis just saw it differently and had met dad during the godfather auditions and said, Let me meet with Marty.

01:56:30.000 Wow.

01:56:31.000 You can tell people um that don't really know my dad that well call him Marty.

01:56:36.000 I run into people in the street and they're like, hey, uh give give Marty my best.

01:56:40.000 And I'm like, Who in the fuck is Marty?

01:56:43.000 People call him Martin.

01:56:45.000 No.

01:56:46.000 They know him better, you know.

01:56:48.000 Um Well people that pretend to know someone always like to throw a Y on the end of it, makes it like you're tight.

01:56:54.000 Interesting.

01:56:54.000 You know?

01:56:55.000 Yeah.

01:56:56.000 So I would be like Chucky.

01:56:59.000 You you're still Charlie.

01:57:00.000 Right, right.

01:57:01.000 But I would be like Joey.

01:57:02.000 Joey, my gosh.

01:57:03.000 I could never think of you as a Joey.

01:57:06.000 Yeah.

01:57:06.000 No.

01:57:07.000 But but imagine this with apocalypse.

01:57:09.000 Um that um so I spend that much time, there's all that shit that happened.

01:57:12.000 I even brought home like props and things, you know, severed hands and if a gal jewelry and all this cool shit, right? 1.00

01:57:18.000 And all these great stories, and then didn't have anything tangible to back any of it.

01:57:24.000 I mean, mom took a lot of photos, but like nobody could go to the theater and then say, Oh yeah, Charlie talked about that.

01:57:30.000 Oh yeah, he taught me he was there that day.

01:57:32.000 Right.

01:57:32.000 We had to wait.

01:57:33.000 And when you're that age, you know, waiting two or three years, like waiting a decade, right?

01:57:38.000 So that was that was kind of a trip.

01:57:40.000 Um but when I saw it at the Cinerama Dome in 70 millimeter, you know, um, and it's like, man, when those choppers, when you hear them, when you hear just they're they're they're they're all around you.

01:57:53.000 Um there the a film will never open like that again and have that kind of an impact.

01:58:01.000 Did I mean were did you see it at the dome when you first saw it?

01:58:04.000 No, no.

01:58:05.000 I don't remember where I first saw it.

01:58:07.000 I first saw it, I think, on a regular TV at home.

01:58:09.000 Oh shit, okay.

01:58:10.000 You know, because I was too little to watch it in 79.

01:58:14.000 Is that what it was?

01:58:16.000 Um maybe I saw it when it came out on HBO or something like that for the first time.

01:58:21.000 When I really got into it was when I got a home theater and I got surround sound and I got Apocalypse uh redo the Apocalypse Now Redo the like the new newly mastered one.

01:58:33.000 Got it, okay.

01:58:34.000 It's fucking sensational.

01:58:36.000 So you have you finally had that experience.

01:58:37.000 Oh my god.

01:58:38.000 It's so good.

01:58:39.000 I was like, this movie is wild.

01:58:42.000 It's so well done.

01:58:44.000 And it's just so epic.

01:58:47.000 Like for you to have been there live while they were putting that together and then to see it all pieced together and all I mean.

01:58:55.000 That had to be an insane experience.

01:58:57.000 Well, and and and a lot of it was a surprise seeing it on the screen.

01:59:01.000 Because like I talk about in the book, not so much in the dock, it was hard to get close to the action on Apocalypse.

01:59:08.000 Because the way the sets were constructed, because of the way, you know, Francis had everything lit.

01:59:13.000 Um it was super claustrophobic, like in you know, Kurtz's Temple and Compound and places like that.

01:59:18.000 Um and and um it was also fucking dangerous to be on that set.

01:59:22.000 Right.

01:59:22.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:59:23.000 Snakes and shit and just like a lot of weird people, you know.

01:59:27.000 Um and so uh yeah, Francis was just like I'm one come all, you know.

01:59:35.000 Wow.

01:59:35.000 Um but um but yeah, so then it's like I wasn't there for any any of the chopper assault.

01:59:41.000 Uh I w I was I could see Hopper at a distance in that outfit with those cameras walking with dad.

01:59:48.000 I couldn't hear what he was saying.

01:59:50.000 So to then see that scene where you know dad first steps off the boat at the compound and Hopper has that incredible monologue.

01:59:57.000 Yeah, you know, you got the cigarettes, that's what I've been dreaming about.

02:00:00.000 And it's just like so to have that that kind of that that to have been there that long and still be it's a a completely fresh cinematic experience was a trip.

02:00:12.000 Did you ever get imposter syndrome like when you were doing Platoon?

02:00:18.000 Did you ever get like how the fuck am I here?

02:00:21.000 Because it's so quick between you being ten, right being in the jungle while they're filming Apocalypse Now to you starring in Platoon.

02:00:29.000 Had you settled into that, or were you ever like, how the fuck do I deserve this?

02:00:34.000 One of the things that John Cryer says in the documentary thing about he might be around to say.

02:00:40.000 It's very insightful.

02:00:41.000 Yeah.

02:00:41.000 It's very insightful.

02:00:42.000 Yeah.

02:00:43.000 He said that you probably feel like you don't deserve all this, so you fuck it all up.

02:00:48.000 Sure.

02:00:48.000 He's not wrong.

02:00:50.000 He's not wrong. 0.53

02:00:51.000 Um but then I I had a qu comment in some interview the other day, and I said, Well, what the fuck, John?

02:01:00.000 You could have like laid that on me like, you know, a couple decades sooner, man.

02:01:06.000 Great advice.

02:01:08.000 However, a little late.

02:01:09.000 Yeah.

02:01:10.000 Yeah, but you can't tell anybody that they have to kind of figure it out.

02:01:14.000 They do.

02:01:14.000 But the thing about Platoon and when it happened, um the good news is that I had done enough film work, um, you know, not not like super memorable films, except maybe uh parts of Red Dawn, I think are pretty memorable.

02:01:28.000 Um just you know, what the film kind of was, you know what it stood for what it was about.

02:01:32.000 Um I think parts of Bueller were kind of memorable first bueller, right?

02:01:36.000 Sure.

02:01:37.000 But um but yeah so so was so was just sort of getting um more comfortable in front of a camera more comfortable sort of you know being able to think on film and actually you know breathe on film.

02:01:54.000 I know that sounds kind of like actor schmactory, but it's actually a thing.

02:01:58.000 Because you're only talking about controlling your breath in every other area of life.

02:02:02.000 Sure.

02:02:03.000 Right?

02:02:03.000 And it's the same is true uh uh as an actor yeah for sure even doing the show even doing two and a half uh for that first scene I was I was usually off I was usually like about to make an entrance from somewhere and I'd be back there and chain smoking I'm you know Marlboro Rads and just trying to figure out the first scene.

02:02:22.000 But then when you'd hear the you'd hear the you'd hear the stage go quiet, right?

02:02:26.000 Someone y'all's you know speeding sound market.

02:02:29.000 And then if I could get that last breath to go to the bottom I knew this first take was going to be awesome.

02:02:37.000 When the breath stopped about like at the sternum I was fucked.

02:02:43.000 Shallow breath.

02:02:44.000 Yeah then you can't then you're chat and then the thing and then yeah and then that first take is just a pancake which sucks because that's the first time the audience is going to see it.

02:02:53.000 Right.

02:02:53.000 You kind of want that one to be if there's a cute girl in the crowd, that's the one you want her watching.

02:02:59.000 Yeah.

02:03:00.000 Not the second one where she's already heard the fucking jokes.

02:03:02.000 Right now you're just doing whatever.

02:03:04.000 Right now you're like oh this show sucks.

02:03:06.000 Exactly the live performance thing is weird because they don't really do it anymore.

02:03:11.000 I mean I don't think there's very many shows that still do that kind of a sitcom in front of a live audience on multiple cameras.

02:03:17.000 There's very few.

02:03:18.000 I uh I think Tim Allen show still does what what is that on?

02:03:23.000 Uh is that on Fox?

02:03:24.000 I think it's ABC.

02:03:28.000 Yeah.

02:03:28.000 So he still does a traditional multi-camera guy I worked with friend of mine is on that writing staff.

02:03:35.000 God they used to be all over the television.

02:03:37.000 I know there used to be tons of them oh I think Chuck's new show on Netflix um it's called uh Leanne Lorraine shit Leanne yeah um I think that that's a live audience you know okay so they're still doing some of them they're fun it's fun when when it works you know yeah it's like it's it's a missing genre in today's culture.

02:04:05.000 You're right.

02:04:07.000 Most of what was on late at night exactly at night time we when you got done having dinner you can sit down and watch friends or you would sit down and watch Seinfeld or two and a half men or comfort view for sure.

02:04:20.000 Yeah we um my family binge watched uh Big Bang Theory I never watched it when it was on the air we binge watched it's a good fucking show.

02:04:29.000 Yeah they were a funny show.

02:04:30.000 I dismissed it.

02:04:32.000 I was like ah it's a corny sitcom bullshit.

02:04:35.000 It's a good show.

02:04:35.000 Right on solid show.

02:04:36.000 Right on yeah that kid kid that that young man Jim, right, uh had some of the most complicated dialogue that anybody's ever been saddled with ever.

02:04:47.000 Yeah he's the first autistic star of an action show or of a sitcom.

02:04:51.000 There you go.

02:04:51.000 Yeah yeah where you're kind of celebrating his uh emotional disconnection.

02:04:57.000 Yeah but delivering it like like Rain Man, you know and just with little laser precision.

02:05:03.000 Yeah yeah it's a really well written show.

02:05:05.000 It's very funny.

02:05:06.000 That guy Chuck Laurie's how how many fucking hits?

02:05:10.000 That guy's had a ton of hits.

02:05:12.000 Yeah.

02:05:12.000 Maybe more than anybody.

02:05:14.000 Probably sitcom world probably yeah yeah.

02:05:18.000 Yeah um they guys are friends again.

02:05:20.000 Yeah so am I so am I no that that sucked having that out there.

02:05:25.000 Yeah you know um you know I did finally actually remember that fucking thing and I'm not gonna I'm not gonna it's the other component to that frickin' tour to that meltdown to that thing there was a moment when I was only in rehab for like I don't know three weeks or a month.

02:05:42.000 It wasn't like one of those extended stays.

02:05:44.000 It was just like a you know just like a quick little quick little two yeah like a spin drive whatever they call that.

02:05:51.000 Um and I got the call we want to we want to renegotiate the giant contract for season eight and nine, you know and I I was on the phone I said I I don't I don't think so.

02:06:02.000 Then they're like, what, you don't think you're gonna get paid?

02:06:03.000 I'm like, no, I don't I don't think I don't think I don't think we should do it.

02:06:06.000 I'm not I I think seven is like, you know, mantle war seven, some other cool sevens, you know.

02:06:14.000 I and I don't think I think seven is like plenty.

02:06:17.000 I think we've I think we've told all the stories that we can mine from that from that Malibu house on the beach with those people.

02:06:24.000 They're like, no, no, you don't understand, man.

02:06:26.000 This is when it all like this is when it turns into like a legacy play for your fucking kids and their kids and that. 0.62

02:06:31.000 And then the part they always leave out is an R cut.

02:06:34.000 Yeah.

02:06:34.000 And our fucking kind of big part.

02:06:36.000 Yeah, and so they're on the phone.

02:06:38.000 Yeah.

02:06:40.000 And I said on the phone, and Mark and I have talked about that.

02:06:43.000 I talked to me on Mark Berg, my manager, and I said, Mark, if I go back there, man, it's gonna go really fucking bad.

02:06:50.000 I just know it.

02:06:52.000 He's like, Well, you're you're you're projecting that.

02:06:54.000 I said, I'm not projecting shit, man.

02:06:56.000 I'm just I'm just smart enough to know how I feel about it now.

02:07:00.000 Got a little bit of clarity in this month I'm in the thing.

02:07:02.000 I said, if I if I go back there, I just I got a I got a bad feeling, Mark.

02:07:08.000 Why going back to work would send you off the rails?

02:07:12.000 Just that I had run up against a thing that I I had lost passion for the show.

02:07:16.000 I'd lost passion for the process.

02:07:18.000 Okay, so that if you went and just did it just for the money, you would find some ways to stimulate yourself.

02:07:24.000 Exactly.

02:07:24.000 Oh yeah.

02:07:25.000 Yeah.

02:07:26.000 That then I would have to do something um to enhance.

02:07:30.000 I said that about a lot of guys that got caught on shows that sucked.

02:07:35.000 I knew a lot of guys who got caught on shows where they were getting paid, but they did not like the show.

02:07:41.000 And it was a like a bad sitcom.

02:07:43.000 And those guys all went crazy.

02:07:45.000 Those guys all started doing a lot of drugs, or they started spending too much money, or something.

02:07:51.000 They did something to distract themselves.

02:07:54.000 Right.

02:07:54.000 Because they did not like what they were doing.

02:07:56.000 And they they didn't feel satisfied.

02:07:58.000 Right.

02:07:59.000 Yeah, but they were getting so much money.

02:08:00.000 Right.

02:08:01.000 They're like, what am I gonna do?

02:08:02.000 I'm getting a hundred thousand dollars a week.

02:08:03.000 I'm like, right.

02:08:04.000 Oh god.

02:08:05.000 Yeah.

02:08:05.000 What do you do?

02:08:06.000 You can't quit.

02:08:06.000 I was I was making fifty-four thousand an hour.

02:08:11.000 That's pre-taxes, so was I said no to season eight and nine.

02:08:15.000 I'd be like, do I have to wear a dress?

02:08:17.000 Right.

02:08:18.000 Well, I'll I'll have to do that.

02:08:20.000 Or Dangerfield's robe at that point.

02:08:23.000 Let's go.

02:08:23.000 No, but um uh no, that that was after I I got you kind of crowbarred into it, you know.

02:08:30.000 Well not crowbar.

02:08:31.000 I'd ultimately say yes.

02:08:32.000 I got own that, you know.

02:08:34.000 But um it was just I was just the wrong guy in that moment, in that pocket of time to like give that much fucking money to, man.

02:08:44.000 Right.

02:08:44.000 You know, right, right.

02:08:45.000 And like I'd buy a bunch of cars and then invite a bunch of girls over and then just say pick one. 1.00

02:08:51.000 And then you did that other thing where you had that other show after that you got paid like a ton of money in advance for, right?

02:08:59.000 Um You talking about anger management?

02:09:01.000 Yes.

02:09:02.000 Uh no, it's supposed to get uh it was it was design it was called a ten ninety.

02:09:08.000 Yeah, how scenario they suck you into that is they say, look, you uh you're not gonna get a ton on the on the on the front side, but you're gonna be you you know, you you're gonna own a third of the show.

02:09:19.000 Or like forty to thirty-seven, thirty-eight percent of the show in perpetuity.

02:09:24.000 So we're gonna do a hundred episodes, and it's the uh South Park um uh model that was the first ten ninety that really just blew it up and everybody got fucking rich.

02:09:34.000 So you do these ten episodes, you do a ten episode pilot.

02:09:38.000 And then if you hit if if the average number of those ten episodes comes in at like, I don't know, at like a like a uh above a four or like a five one or something that it's like a share, right?

02:09:52.000 Um then it activates the next ninety.

02:09:55.000 And so then you're doing those ninety to have a s of sellable uh uh uh syndication package that will just go all over the world and and you know, do what syndicated sitcoms do.

02:10:09.000 And so you've done it, yeah, you know, and y you know, when you say not a lot on on the front side, you're still, you know, still getting a buck fifty an app, you know, two hundred that's pretty good money, right?

02:10:20.000 Um, but it's not but you kind of you kinda eat it on that side knowing that it's an investment for the other thing to to pay gangbusters.

02:10:29.000 So you did you guys you did the ten episodes and then you got to do all of them?

02:10:34.000 Yes.

02:10:34.000 So you wanted to do in a hundred.

02:10:36.000 Yes.

02:10:36.000 But you did them in a short appointment a short period of time.

02:10:38.000 Two and a half years.

02:10:39.000 That's crazy.

02:10:40.000 I know.

02:10:41.000 Yeah.

02:10:41.000 And I was I was not ready to go back to work.

02:10:44.000 Yeah.

02:10:44.000 And that's the thing I talk about in the book.

02:10:46.000 The only reason I did was I I wanted to show those guys across town that I was terrible again, you know.

02:10:51.000 Right, right, right.

02:10:52.000 And that is not that is not any way to any mindset to like lead the troops.

02:10:58.000 And it, you know, again, it started pretty cool.

02:11:00.000 I did the 10, I was great, you know, doing some pretty good work, and the shows were smart and funny.

02:11:06.000 And then we got into that 90, and it was about it was about 20.

02:11:11.000 No, what am I saying?

02:11:13.000 It's probably like nine or eleven into it, I started feeling exactly the same shit that I felt on two and a half going past that point.

02:11:26.000 I knew my enthusiasm and passion had had a uh had an expiration date.

02:11:32.000 You couldn't manufacture it?

02:11:34.000 I I tried, but I couldn't, I didn't um I didn't like the show enough.

02:11:39.000 You know, I loved the people I was working with, you know, from the from the writer's crew to the actor.

02:11:43.000 They were terrific.

02:11:44.000 You didn't like the final product.

02:11:45.000 I didn't, yeah, and I didn't I stopped caring.

02:11:49.000 But I still, you know, had enough dough to keep the lifestyle and all that other fun shit going on, and just stayed way too fucking high to really engage in this thing.

02:12:01.000 Um I mean, I was doing this thing, Joe, where I would I was partying, you know, hitting the fucking pipe, either girls or porn or both, or who, you know, whoever showed up, yeah, fucking, yeah, hey, come on in.

02:12:15.000 Come on in.

02:12:16.000 There's plenty to go around.

02:12:17.000 And then um there's this thing, I think I I felt like I was time traveling from like 1 a.m. to like seven felt like s eleven, I don't know, 15 minutes.

02:12:30.000 Whereas, you know, nine to midnight felt normal.

02:12:33.000 Wow, we have plenty of time to do everything.

02:12:35.000 And then like the the the hours I really needed to like, you know, settle in and enjoy, those just vanished.

02:12:41.000 And then you're back to work.

02:12:42.000 No, I got someone banging on my fucking door.

02:12:44.000 Dude, you're late.

02:12:45.000 What the fuck?

02:12:45.000 And I'm still fucking sideways.

02:12:48.000 Wow.

02:12:49.000 So I'd pop a couple of shots or like half a Xanax or something, and I said, Oh, I just need and I would literally do this thing.

02:12:55.000 It was a 15-minute, 20-minute nap where I would just hit the pillow, I'd try to meditate with a body just vibrating from crack all night, trying to meditate.

02:13:06.000 At that point, I'm trying to fucking time travel.

02:13:09.000 I'm trying to levitate, right?

02:13:12.000 And but I could feel okay, I've I've generated some calmness.

02:13:16.000 Then then I would hit the shower, and I would t I'd be in the shower and I'd say, okay, I only have to navigate from this shower to the next shower.

02:13:26.000 And that's about 11, maybe 12 hours.

02:13:29.000 It was a shower to shower.

02:13:30.000 Remember that commercial like in the 70s?

02:13:32.000 Wasn't there a fucking like a deodorant or a shower to shower?

02:13:37.000 Yeah, like it lasted from one shower to the next.

02:13:40.000 Yeah.

02:13:40.000 So I'm trying to last from one shower to the next, man.

02:13:44.000 No shit.

02:13:45.000 And then but I'd get to work and then have that midday drop off.

02:13:50.000 And I wasn't hitting the pipe at work, but I needed to keep some f some fuel in the engine.

02:13:55.000 So I'd be, you know, I start drinking, and then man, people look at sitcoms like, oh, they're out there having a fun time.

02:14:01.000 Man, it is super fucking complicated.

02:14:03.000 Well, you've done them, yeah, right.

02:14:05.000 It's like an it's like a dance, isn't it?

02:14:08.000 It's like a uh it's like a choreographed thing.

02:14:11.000 And so it is hard enough to do and and to do well, completely focused and and and with all your shit intact, right?

02:14:20.000 You start getting over here and trying to be that specific just with marks, with jokes, with timing with other people.

02:14:30.000 And then a lot of my energy is going to trying to disguise like the condition I'm really in.

02:14:37.000 You know, and trying to make excuses.

02:14:39.000 Right.

02:14:39.000 Oh, I had a med mix-up today.

02:14:42.000 Med mix-up.

02:14:44.000 I'm on two pills or the same fucking thing at the same time every day.

02:14:47.000 There's no med mix-up.

02:14:49.000 You know, it's like, what are we doing?

02:14:51.000 And so, yeah, and then that turns into that thing where you just then they start getting behind, and I would just be like, ah, I'll just sorry for the overtime, I'll just pay for it.

02:15:02.000 And you know, they should they should have not taken the money.

02:15:05.000 They should have said we're shutting down.

02:15:06.000 You need to fucking go go go get well or go get just a little better than what you're showing up as.

02:15:13.000 Um and so that show kind of never really had a chance to be anything really anything special, you know, because I didn't I didn't I didn't I didn't really care about it.

02:15:23.000 And the thing that sucks about that looking back, it's like think about all the energy and the hard work that all those other people put into it and committed to it because I said yes.

02:15:35.000 Right.

02:15:36.000 You know and there's also there's a bunch of people that were rooting for you.

02:15:39.000 Because they they saw what happened with two and a half men, it was big public disaster, you leave, is his career ruined.

02:15:47.000 Oh no, look, he's got another show.

02:15:49.000 Oh, Charlie's back.

02:15:50.000 But did anybody even say um okay, so hold on, what did he do between that that you know, after that last swan dive into the volcano that we all watched, what and then he's on the he's back on he's on another show.

02:16:05.000 Like, what did he do between then and there?

02:16:07.000 Well, the narrative on you was as an outsider was that you were one of the rare guys who could party like that but still pull it off and have a career.

02:16:16.000 Right.

02:16:17.000 And I think your ex-wife had said that that she never worried about you.

02:16:20.000 You would always land on your feet.

02:16:23.000 Because you were very talented.

02:16:25.000 And you were also very loved.

02:16:27.000 You know, which is one of the reasons why people embraced you when you were talking about how much crack you were doing.

02:16:33.000 You know, when you were saying all that, people there was they weren't mad at you.

02:16:37.000 They're like, he's fucking partying, you know.

02:16:39.000 It was it was a very odd time where so many people who don't admit that they party, you know, because of their job or because of whatever.

02:16:48.000 Right.

02:16:48.000 You know, they try to like keep it hot in a hidden under under wraps.

02:16:52.000 Right.

02:16:52.000 And you were doing a live interview with this lady, and you're you're talking to her about smoking rocks, and and she was flabbergasted, like you could tell.

02:17:03.000 Yeah, she did not expect that kind of candor with discussion of uh illicit drugs.

02:17:09.000 Right.

02:17:09.000 It was just like nobody ever done that before.

02:17:12.000 Well, she asked, I mean, right, but nobody ever embraced it.

02:17:16.000 Right, right, right.

02:17:17.000 Right.

02:17:17.000 Everybody else is like, well, you know, it's a terrible time of my life.

02:17:21.000 I was I got so low I was doing crack cocaine.

02:17:24.000 Right, right, right.

02:17:25.000 It comes from a place of shame.

02:17:26.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:17:27.000 Yeah.

02:17:27.000 And you didn't have any shame.

02:17:28.000 I didn't.

02:17:29.000 No.

02:17:29.000 Because I'd watched something like a couple days before I sat down with Andrea Canning, and it was this old interview with Charlie Gibson on g on uh some special they did for ABC, right?

02:17:40.000 I don't even think it wasn't a GMA piece, it was like a more in-depth one of those exposes they do, you know.

02:17:45.000 And it was me coming out of rehab, and I I remember watching myself and just being such a I was like, that guy's a fucking sizzy, man. 0.99

02:17:52.000 That guy's a fucking pussy. 1.00

02:17:54.000 What's wrong with him?

02:17:54.000 Look at him, all that shame, all that embarrassment.

02:17:57.000 Like, no, no, no.

02:17:58.000 We're not doing that anymore.

02:17:59.000 So that that got locked in.

02:18:00.000 Oh, yeah.

02:18:01.000 Yeah, because I I remember how I I just remember how I felt watching me doing it their way.

02:18:07.000 Yeah.

02:18:07.000 I was like, no, no, no.

02:18:09.000 And then you know, I got all the I got the brain full of you know, fucking nuclear crazy cream that I'm on fucking you know just covering myself in.

02:18:19.000 And uh that's what 2K's.

02:18:23.000 That's like the donuts, right?

02:18:24.000 Um and yeah, man, and and and and you know where the material came from, right?

02:18:30.000 The those slogans and all that stuff.

02:18:32.000 No.

02:18:33.000 Was Brian Wilson.

02:18:34.000 From the Beach Boys?

02:18:35.000 No, the Brian Wilson pitcher for the Giants.

02:18:37.000 The guy they called the beard.

02:18:39.000 Oh.

02:18:40.000 Yeah.

02:18:40.000 I was on the phone with him like the day a couple days before that, because Tony and I, Tony Todd and I were watching uh baseball highlights.

02:18:47.000 I was like, wow, this guy looks this guy's a fucking trip. 0.56

02:18:50.000 Tony, get him on the phone, right?

02:18:51.000 And the next day I'm on the phone with him.

02:18:53.000 I think he was just trying to give me a pep talk.

02:18:55.000 He was like, hey man, uh, just know that guys like us, you know, we're not we're not we're not we're not like everybody else.

02:19:00.000 You know, we're we're we're we're different, man.

02:19:02.000 We got we got you know, we got tiger blood running through our veins.

02:19:05.000 We got fucking Adonis DNA.

02:19:08.000 We got uh yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, we're we're we we we we don't know how to lose, man, because we're always fucking winning, right?

02:19:14.000 So I hear all this, and he's probably thinking, cool, man, I just kind of inspired him, maybe just to get to the next moment, you know.

02:19:21.000 That stuff went in there, man.

02:19:23.000 And it's staying on a fucking loop.

02:19:26.000 And I sat down and the the interview doesn't start like that, which is a trip.

02:19:33.000 I'm trying to keep it together.

02:19:34.000 I'm trying to give her the stuff she needs to like maybe I don't even know what was the thrust of that story, being fired or some shit?

02:19:39.000 Or remember.

02:19:41.000 So but there's a moment that's not on film.

02:19:45.000 And Andrea can't deny this.

02:19:47.000 Um she makes a crack about these two girlfriends that I'm living with, right? 1.00

02:19:54.000 Um expects me to just like let it just you know, brush it off and then answer her next question.

02:20:03.000 And I said, Hold on a second.

02:20:05.000 I said that was really rude.

02:20:07.000 She's like, which part?

02:20:08.000 I'm like, well, what you just how you just address them.

02:20:11.000 You owe them an apology.

02:20:13.000 And she was like, uh uh, okay.

02:20:16.000 I mean I'm paraphrasing some of this, right?

02:20:17.000 But that this is kind of this is the tone of it.

02:20:20.000 And so how did she address them?

02:20:24.000 Um I I felt like they were dismissed as just like uh porn porn chicks, you know.

02:20:32.000 Because one was a porn check, the other was not.

02:20:40.000 Unfairly, you know.

02:20:41.000 And so then they, you know, she Andrea's like, oh my god, okay, you know, I'm sorry, I didn't mean anything by that, you know.

02:20:49.000 But I'm over here, you know, with the thing.

02:20:52.000 Um and I'm not I'm not letting it go.

02:20:56.000 I I I asked you to apologize.

02:20:58.000 We should have been past it.

02:20:59.000 Now I'm stewing.

02:21:01.000 Um ramped up now.

02:21:04.000 Yeah.

02:21:05.000 And that's when it turned into and then I start hearing Brian's stuff, and I'm like, uh I don't know, man, I'm fucking tired of and then it all just and then it it got away from me and I and I couldn't pull it back.

02:21:19.000 Couldn't pull it back.

02:21:20.000 And then everybody's like, okay, well that was different.

02:21:23.000 I mean it's kind of fucking interesting and unique and whatever, man.

02:21:26.000 Well, um, well, let's just let's let's you know, let's just have a quiet night and and and and and we'll see how that plays out, you know.

02:21:34.000 And I wake up into a world of not not the world I said goodnight to six hours earlier.

02:21:43.000 And uh my friends are banging on the door, people are you know, sending me, you know, videos and stuff, and he's like, dude, the fucking the world's on fire with your shit, man.

02:21:53.000 I'm like, all right, what does that mean?

02:21:55.000 Um and there's like there's folk songs and rap songs, and people like marching in the streets and there's already t-shirts and there's this, it's just it has just gone, it exploded.

02:22:07.000 Yeah.

02:22:08.000 And so it's not like I could jump on my roof with a bullhorn and say, All right, everybody, okay, let's just, you know, every fighters were saying they had tiger blood.

02:22:17.000 They were joking around about it.

02:22:19.000 See?

02:22:19.000 Yeah, I mean, it got it got away from it.

02:22:25.000 Penetrated me.

02:22:26.000 Yeah.

02:22:26.000 Yeah, it achieved penetration.

02:22:28.000 Well, no one had ever done an interview like that before.

02:22:31.000 I didn't I didn't I yeah, I I I wasn't thinking about that in the moment.

02:22:37.000 I was just fucking pissed.

02:22:39.000 And I wasn't gonna be s sissy Charles from from the 90s, you know.

02:22:45.000 It was like this whole convergence of all these elements and all these emotions and all these feelings and and also the you know resentment I had in myself, you know, and just like, all right, I'm just gonna pick some targets.

02:22:59.000 And and you know, would have been nice had it been sort of uh if I could have just sort of been herded um just kind of you know away from it, you know.

02:23:14.000 Have you ever thought of what your life would be like if you didn't do that interview?

02:23:18.000 I I've started to I've started I've started to try to walk into that village, right?

02:23:26.000 But as soon as I take a look around, none of it really makes sense because it it's it did I I I can't really imagine it.

02:23:34.000 You know, what what do you think it would I mean what would it it's it's hard to kind of even put those pieces together.

02:23:42.000 I wonder if you had ever would have gotten sober.

02:23:46.000 Interesting.

02:23:47.000 You mean you mean today's sober sober today's sober sober you you might have had to have that complete chaos tail spin free fall crash.

02:23:58.000 Right.

02:23:59.000 Publicly.

02:24:00.000 Right.

02:24:00.000 To just eventually like gather your shit together and go, okay.

02:24:04.000 Right.

02:24:05.000 All right.

02:24:06.000 Time to learn and grow.

02:24:08.000 Right.

02:24:08.000 Obviously, that wasn't smart.

02:24:10.000 Let's do it differently.

02:24:12.000 Right.

02:24:12.000 Let's get it together and step by step, day by day, and look, here you are.

02:24:16.000 Almost nine years later.

02:24:18.000 Almost eight years.

02:24:18.000 Or eight years later.

02:24:19.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:24:20.000 That's uh you you always wonder, like maybe you have to have that was your rock bottom moment.

02:24:27.000 And it was public, you know.

02:24:28.000 So the whole world got to see it.

02:24:30.000 Like a full cleanse.

02:24:32.000 Yeah.

02:24:32.000 Wow.

02:24:33.000 Just uh purging of all of it.

02:24:36.000 And you know.

02:24:37.000 And still you have to battle with the this reinforcement because now everybody is loving the fact that you know you're winning and that you know you're talking about how much crack you smoke and how crazy it is, and you got all these hot girls and everybody's like, he's winning.

02:24:54.000 He's winning.

02:24:54.000 And so now there's no incentive at all to get healthy.

02:24:57.000 Right.

02:24:58.000 Which is kind of nuts.

02:25:00.000 And not only that, financially, you're kind of it kind of helps you to be like a little off the rails.

02:25:06.000 It's like you're kind of known for that.

02:25:08.000 You know, like and then you have this big tour and everybody's coming out to see you.

02:25:12.000 Right.

02:25:12.000 Yeah, which was crazy for you to do.

02:25:16.000 Like the first one where you did it without comedians was just bananas.

02:25:19.000 Yeah, I went it was a complete train wreck.

02:25:22.000 Yeah.

02:25:23.000 It was a disaster.

02:25:24.000 But you guys pulled it together.

02:25:26.000 And that was like kind of the story of like your career when things have fallen apart.

02:25:32.000 People want you to pull it together.

02:25:33.000 Right.

02:25:33.000 So even though you had that disastrous show and everybody knew it was a disaster.

02:25:36.000 In Detroit.

02:25:37.000 People were still coming out to see the other ones.

02:25:39.000 Right, right, right.

02:25:40.000 Yeah.

02:25:41.000 I um I had an uh the um option um after the d Detroit v massacre, um, of flying uh to Chicago or taking the bus, the tour bus, right?

02:25:53.000 And I said, uh, I need I need those seven or eight hours on the bus.

02:25:57.000 And they're like, why?

02:25:58.000 I said, 'cause I'm gonna rewrite the entire show.

02:26:01.000 And I think um I think Natty was on that trip.

02:26:05.000 I think maybe Rick, I don't know, Shady was on anyway, and I just I just uh there was a place, you know, room in the back, and I just kinda barricaded myself with a pad of paper and a pen and just went to town and just sort of started trying to reshape it.

02:26:17.000 And when I got to Chicago, they were expecting all this all the special effects we needed from that gar you know, all that garbage. 1.00

02:26:24.000 I said, We traveled with none of it.

02:26:26.000 I said, Here's the new show.

02:26:28.000 They're like, You sure about this?

02:26:29.000 I'm like, just trust me.

02:26:30.000 And that and unfortunately, that's the night where it got applauded and kept the train on the tracks.

02:26:37.000 Chicago, you know.

02:26:40.000 But isn't that weird I had the wherewithal, like in the middle of all that, and they still had enough enough something, enough of that thing to tr to just you know, maybe that's just pride at that point.

02:26:52.000 Certainly it's also uh that's the impact of public humiliation.

02:26:56.000 Like Thank you.

02:26:58.000 Yeah, enough.

02:26:59.000 How about that?

02:26:59.000 Time to get this footage get this thing back on track.

02:27:03.000 Yeah.

02:27:03.000 And it it was it was just it was the curtain comes up and there's two chairs, and I have a moderator.

02:27:10.000 And it's just a conversation.

02:27:12.000 Imagine that.

02:27:13.000 Yeah.

02:27:14.000 Didn't reinvent anything.

02:27:15.000 No, you know, and I oh, oh, I wrote a letter is what it was.

02:27:19.000 Um dear Chicago.

02:27:22.000 And it's like this whole thing, you know, including them.

02:27:25.000 Um and yeah, so I got them, I kind of got them back on my side, and then we sat down.

02:27:30.000 Yeah.

02:27:31.000 Well, people realized also you were figuring this tour thing out on the fly.

02:27:36.000 Yeah.

02:27:38.000 Essentially, it was twenty-one cities in like twenty-four days with no act.

02:27:46.000 That's what it was, man.

02:27:48.000 So who do you I know you had Jeff Ross was on some of the things?

02:27:51.000 Jeff Ross, yeah.

02:27:52.000 Who's great at that master at Off the Cus.

02:27:55.000 Wow, he showed up and really put a shape on it.

02:28:00.000 Yes.

02:28:00.000 And then you had Russell on some of them too, right?

02:28:02.000 Yes.

02:28:03.000 Who's also a master at Off the Cuff.

02:28:05.000 Yes.

02:28:06.000 And he and he um he was so relieved that that the two chairs had shown up.

02:28:12.000 Because that's when he joined us in Canada.

02:28:15.000 Uh yeah.

02:28:16.000 No, he was terrific.

02:28:17.000 Yeah, Russell's awesome.

02:28:18.000 Yeah.

02:28:19.000 You know, the first night sitting with him, some dude, like um, what's like the Canadian version of like a a quarter?

02:28:26.000 I oh, what's their dollar?

02:28:28.000 A loony, okay.

02:28:29.000 But that's a dollar.

02:28:30.000 I think so.

02:28:31.000 Okay.

02:28:31.000 Is that the heavy one?

02:28:32.000 Yeah, someone threw it at him.

02:28:34.000 No, at me.

02:28:35.000 Oh.

02:28:35.000 Like we're in the chair for maybe five minutes.

02:28:38.000 And I get from the balcony.

02:28:40.000 I get hit with one right here.

02:28:42.000 Oh.

02:28:43.000 And it just It was like getting punched by like someone with a skinny metal hand, you know.

02:28:49.000 And uh and I just had to I had to kind of pause into that and then they they got the guy thrown out.

02:28:57.000 But I just thought, wow, I could have lost an eye.

02:28:59.000 Yeah.

02:28:59.000 A Russell could have lost an eye.

02:29:01.000 And it was just like, wow, all right.

02:29:03.000 That's also pretty good shot.

02:29:06.000 Really good shot.

02:29:07.000 Guy throws a loony from the balcony and he hits it in the head.

02:29:09.000 That's that's impressive.

02:29:11.000 It is.

02:29:11.000 Because that's not an aerodynamic thing.

02:29:13.000 It's not.

02:29:14.000 No.

02:29:14.000 How you throwing it?

02:29:15.000 You have to kind of factor in the biggest thing.

02:29:17.000 Yeah.

02:29:17.000 It's a lot of flipping of the air.

02:29:19.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:29:20.000 Yeah.

02:29:20.000 It's kind of like a boomerang or something.

02:29:22.000 Yeah, it's a frisbee.

02:29:22.000 It's a frisbee.

02:29:23.000 A little tiny frisbee.

02:29:24.000 Yeah.

02:29:25.000 So anyway, so that's there were just moments like that that I um I guess just little cosmic reminders that not everybody was on my side.

02:29:33.000 Right, right.

02:29:34.000 Yeah.

02:29:35.000 Yeah.

02:29:36.000 Which is important too.

02:29:37.000 Hey, can I hit the bathroom?

02:29:39.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:29:40.000 We can actually wrap it up.

02:29:41.000 We're getting close.

02:29:41.000 Okay.

02:29:42.000 You want to wrap it up?

02:29:43.000 Um can we just touch on a couple things before we do?

02:29:46.000 Absolutely.

02:29:46.000 Stay a leak and we'll come back.

02:29:47.000 Okay, cool.

02:29:48.000 Should we bring this up?

02:29:50.000 I guess we have to.

02:29:51.000 So this just happened.

02:29:53.000 Uh we just found out that Charlie Kirk got shot.

02:29:57.000 It's fucking awful.

02:29:59.000 And is he dead?

02:30:01.000 No.

02:30:02.000 I don't think so.

02:30:03.000 That's what was just.

02:30:04.000 One of the guys out there just said confirmed that he's dead.

02:30:07.000 In the lobby was just I was looking, I've been looking.

02:30:09.000 I haven't seen anything that said confirmed.

02:30:14.000 Whoa.

02:30:16.000 Murder for having a different opinion from somebody else.

02:30:20.000 Yeah.

02:30:20.000 Different ideology from somebody else.

02:30:23.000 Yeah.

02:30:24.000 Yeah.

02:30:25.000 I mean, I don't know.

02:30:27.000 Beliefs that didn't along with it.

02:30:28.000 Yeah.

02:30:29.000 I'm sorry?

02:30:30.000 Yeah.

02:30:30.000 Rest in peace for this news.

02:30:33.000 Jesus.

02:30:34.000 Tw twenty-seven years old, maybe?

02:30:36.000 Thirty.

02:30:37.000 Do they even have uh a suspect?

02:30:40.000 I don't know.

02:30:41.000 Well, that's why I don't I don't I'm literally trying to track it all on Twitter and it's all fuck.

02:30:46.000 Fuck.

02:30:47.000 Nobody deserves he doesn't deserve that.

02:30:49.000 Nobody deserves that.

02:30:53.000 So were you saying that MSNBC had a crazy take on it?

02:30:58.000 What was their take?

02:31:00.000 I I'm literally just reading Twitter, so I didn't see the video.

02:31:02.000 I just saw people talking about tweets of it.

02:31:04.000 Uh I'll pull it up though.

02:31:11.000 Fuck.

02:31:13.000 And even now they could have taken it down.

02:31:17.000 It was a tweet or a video.

02:31:19.000 I don't that's I don't I don't I I'm you know doing the show while I'm trying to figure out.

02:31:23.000 Right, no, I understand.

02:31:24.000 Uh I think they were live on the air and people clipped the what they were talking about.

02:31:29.000 It's not a tweet, it's not on their Twitter account or anything.

02:31:31.000 So it's someone's hot take.

02:31:34.000 So live in the moment.

02:31:37.000 Yeah, that's a crazy take.

02:31:39.000 Crazy take is that what was the take that they deserved it?

02:31:43.000 No, I uh that's why I didn't want to pair it.

02:31:45.000 Right.

02:31:47.000 Here you go.

02:31:48.000 Um Dave Portnoy reposted this.

02:31:53.000 You found it all right here.

02:31:54.000 Put it's only 10 seconds.

02:31:55.000 Shooting like this happens.

02:31:57.000 You could put the headphones on, you can hear it.

02:31:59.000 Yeah, and again, emphasize what you just emphasized.

02:32:01.000 We don't know any the details of this that we don't know if this was the supporter shooting their gun off in celebration, or so we have no idea about it.

02:32:08.000 That's what that's what the crazy thing was.

02:32:10.000 Oh, that's it.

02:32:11.000 Yeah, that if it was a supporter shooting their gun off in celebration.

02:32:15.000 What?

02:32:16.000 Someone shot their gun off in celebration and killed him.

02:32:20.000 You shoot celebration guns in the air.

02:32:22.000 Oh god.

02:32:23.000 Just uh what a crazy take.

02:32:25.000 Like it might not have been someone assassinating someone for the wrong opinion.

02:32:30.000 Oh fuck.

02:32:32.000 Well, why does something like that have to be spun?

02:32:36.000 Their ideology.

02:32:37.000 No, I know, but I'm just saying it's like I mean they want to try to pin it on tr a Trump supporter with a crazy Trump supporter with a gun.

02:32:43.000 Right.

02:32:43.000 Going wacky.

02:32:44.000 Of course.

02:32:44.000 We don't know if it was a supporter shooting off a gun in celebration.

02:32:48.000 Because you know they do a lot of folks are just constantly out there shooting off guns at large gatherings in celebration.

02:32:55.000 Yeah, fourth of July you can't leave your house.

02:32:57.000 What the fuck?

02:32:58.000 No, that is um that that that's a wow.

02:33:02.000 There's gonna be a lot of people celebrating this.

02:33:05.000 It's so scary.

02:33:07.000 It's so dangerous too to to to celebrate or to in any way encourage this kind of behavior from human beings.

02:33:16.000 He's not a violent guy who's uh talking, talking to people on college campuses.

02:33:21.000 Wasn't even particularly rude.

02:33:22.000 He was tried to be pretty reasonable with people.

02:33:26.000 Everything I saw seemed reasonable.

02:33:28.000 He's very intelligent guy.

02:33:29.000 Yeah.

02:33:30.000 You know, whether you agree with him or don't.

02:33:32.000 And there's a lot of stuff that I didn't agree with him on.

02:33:34.000 That's fine.

02:33:34.000 You're you're allowed to disagree with people without celebrating the fact they got shot.

02:33:39.000 But you can't disrespect his passion.

02:33:41.000 Yeah.

02:33:42.000 Well, what you're supposed to do with a guy like that if you're opposing him is debate him.

02:33:46.000 Right.

02:33:47.000 Have a conversation where your your argument is more compelling than his.

02:33:51.000 Sure.

02:33:51.000 That's what people should be celebrating.

02:33:53.000 Discourse.

02:33:54.000 You know, we used to do that.

02:33:55.000 Do some homework and and bring it to the table.

02:33:58.000 Yeah.

02:33:59.000 Yeah.

02:34:00.000 It's horrible.

02:34:01.000 It's horrible.

02:34:02.000 This podcast has been a lot about violence, man.

02:34:05.000 It has, but not this kind.

02:34:08.000 No.

02:34:09.000 I I'm sorry, not not um something is it's so in the moment right now from someone th th this currently current.

02:34:18.000 Yeah.

02:34:18.000 That that that we see and and are uh j j you know aware of daily yeah I mean he's one of those young influencers, right?

02:34:33.000 This time from the right, who is uh all over social media, always doing these various shows and debating people and talking to people and giving speeches and sure.

02:34:45.000 Yeah.

02:34:47.000 No one deserves this, folks.

02:34:48.000 No one that has different opinions.

02:34:51.000 No one deserves that.

02:34:52.000 No.

02:34:52.000 This is horrible.

02:34:53.000 No.

02:34:55.000 But I know people are gonna celebrate it because p this is a fucked up time and people have really fallen into this trap of us against them.

02:35:04.000 But it's also gonna make people not want to be as courageous or not want to be as as as as as forthright with with the things they believe.

02:35:11.000 It's gonna it's gonna put people on guard.

02:35:13.000 It could.

02:35:14.000 It also could it could do the opposite.

02:35:16.000 I I I I get that, but there's also going to be that sort of ingrained thing now.

02:35:22.000 You're correct, yeah.

02:35:24.000 And yeah, you know, and i you just go you know, going through the whole New York thing, I just you know, sometimes you're you you know, there's a there's a crowd and it's all love.

02:35:33.000 It's all love, and all they want is you know, is is your signature or a photo or this and that.

02:35:38.000 But there's so much of those moments where you're spent looking down.

02:35:42.000 You're looking down the entire time.

02:35:44.000 Yeah.

02:35:45.000 And I I don't think anybody wants to shoot me.

02:35:47.000 I don't I don't think that that's kind of out in the world, right?

02:35:50.000 Um but it just it's it's the type of shit that just lives in in in the back of one's mind.

02:35:56.000 Yeah.

02:35:57.000 Because how could it not?

02:35:58.000 How could it not?

02:35:59.000 And then and then the thing like today, and you're like, okay, that that's why it's in it's it's in it's in the back of our minds.

02:36:07.000 Yeah.

02:36:07.000 You know?

02:36:08.000 Well, it's you know, when we were talking about assassinations earlier, whether it's Kennedy or RFK or you know, you think of him in the past.

02:36:17.000 You think of them like you don't when something happens in the the current, like right now with this one with Charlie Kirk, it doesn't seem real.

02:36:26.000 No.

02:36:26.000 It seems very surreal.

02:36:28.000 It does.

02:36:28.000 It's it seems like it does.

02:36:29.000 It's gonna take a long time before we reference this as um something that happened.

02:36:34.000 Like he oh, remember he got shot and killed.

02:36:36.000 Oh yeah.

02:36:37.000 Like right now it's just doesn't seem real.

02:36:40.000 It seems uh it seems so crazy that just it's not registering.

02:36:45.000 It's not, no.

02:36:51.000 Is he a friend?

02:36:52.000 No.

02:36:53.000 Uh I met him once.

02:36:54.000 Okay.

02:36:56.000 Wow.

02:36:57.000 Um he was a nice guy.

02:37:03.000 Um when I met him.

02:37:04.000 Wow.

02:37:07.000 It's a fucked up time.

02:37:08.000 People are so divided in this country.

02:37:11.000 So divided, and there's so many people that love it.

02:37:15.000 They love that we're divided, and they profit off that division and they stoke the fires.

02:37:20.000 And and they do it for their own profit, and it's so fucking gross.

02:37:25.000 It's so gross.

02:37:26.000 And to encourage this kind of thing is really One of the most horrific things that you could do after someone dies horribly like this is celebrate.

02:37:41.000 It's it's it's it's it's on it's unfortunate.

02:37:43.000 It should be a wake up call for everybody.

02:37:44.000 Like this is nuts.

02:37:46.000 This is nuts.

02:37:47.000 No, it's not it's it's unforgivable that that that to spend things like that.

02:37:50.000 And 'cause the people they're never thinking about is is that person's family.

02:37:55.000 I think they just no that's just like default with those.

02:37:59.000 They gaslight you by default.

02:38:01.000 Right.

02:38:02.000 So immediately they try to find some reason why the whatever the the thing is that's in the news is someone else's fault.

02:38:08.000 Right, of course.

02:38:09.000 It's just all gaslighting.

02:38:11.000 And that's what they're paid to do.

02:38:12.000 They're paid propagandists.

02:38:14.000 Masquerading as the news.

02:38:16.000 So weird.

02:38:18.000 Fuck.

02:38:19.000 No, this is a this it's a it's a dark day.

02:38:22.000 Yeah.

02:38:24.000 It is.

02:38:26.000 Well, one of the things two things is gonna happen.

02:38:28.000 Either people are gonna realize how fucking insane this is, and we have to have a conversation about being able to have conversations.

02:38:36.000 Right.

02:38:37.000 Or it's gonna get a lot worse.

02:38:39.000 That's what's scary.

02:38:42.000 Scary this could spark off some kind of a real violent conflict.

02:38:48.000 You know, that guy had a lot of fans.

02:38:50.000 Yeah.

02:38:51.000 A lot of people love that guy.

02:38:52.000 Yeah, I know.

02:38:53.000 And if they find out that he got killed for something that they vehemently oppose in the first place, it could send people over the edge.

02:39:00.000 It could.

02:39:01.000 It could, yeah.

02:39:02.000 There's always that flashpoint moment in in in in any, you know, in in previous times like this.

02:39:10.000 Yep.

02:39:11.000 You know?

02:39:11.000 Yep.

02:39:12.000 It's there's always that tipping point moment.

02:39:14.000 Like the Rodney King film.

02:39:16.000 Yep.

02:39:17.000 Right?

02:39:17.000 Something just like that's it.

02:39:19.000 Yeah.

02:39:20.000 You know, this also highlights um just a little bit of perspective, like how lucky uh Trump is.

02:39:30.000 Oh, yeah.

02:39:31.000 You know?

02:39:31.000 And it's just like Charlie didn't get the benefit of a head turn or a couple of a couple of microns or millimeters or you know, and it's just like wow.

02:39:43.000 Wow, who who who decides that?

02:39:46.000 Yeah.

02:39:46.000 What you know, that is just bananas.

02:39:50.000 Yeah.

02:39:51.000 But they talk about clips his ear.

02:39:53.000 Yeah.

02:39:54.000 Because he makes a reference to something.

02:39:57.000 Yeah.

02:39:57.000 And then it's just yeah.

02:39:58.000 And then it clips his ear.

02:39:59.000 Where if he didn't turn his head, he'd be dead.

02:40:03.000 And it would have been on live on CNN.

02:40:06.000 How do we know more about an assassination from 1963?

02:40:12.000 Yeah.

02:40:14.000 Eight months ago.

02:40:15.000 That one, that story's fucked.

02:40:17.000 There's a lot of weird stuff in that story.

02:40:19.000 There's a cell phone that was traveling because of metadata.

02:40:22.000 They know a cell phone was traveling from offices uh outside of the offices of the FBI in that area, all the way to this guy multiple times.

02:40:30.000 Imagine that.

02:40:31.000 He was uh twenty years old, uh, his apartment was professionally scrubbed.

02:40:36.000 There was no silverware in it.

02:40:38.000 There he had no social media presence.

02:40:41.000 He you know, was regularly training with uh like military guys.

02:40:45.000 He was regularly training and shooting, like one guy had remembered him from a range.

02:40:49.000 Right.

02:40:50.000 Right.

02:40:50.000 Like what?

02:40:51.000 He was in a black rock commercial two years before.

02:40:54.000 Right.

02:40:55.000 Like what?

02:40:56.000 His his his chosen rooftop is just kind of between the two quadrants that they're assigned to cover.

02:41:02.000 Not only that's just a it's just a blind spot.

02:41:04.000 The the excuse for why they didn't have officers on that rooftop was it was too sloped.

02:41:10.000 The slope was too steep, which made zero sense.

02:41:13.000 Wow.

02:41:13.000 Because he climbed up it.

02:41:15.000 He was fine.

02:41:15.000 Yeah, he did.

02:41:16.000 What the fuck are you talking about?

02:41:17.000 It didn't make any sense.

02:41:18.000 Not only that, the the one where the snipers were perched had a steeper slope.

02:41:23.000 Made no sense.

02:41:23.000 No.

02:41:24.000 It was fucking nuts.

02:41:26.000 They found that guy walking around the uh the the grounds a half an hour before the event with a fucking range finder.

02:41:32.000 Yeah.

02:41:36.000 If if if you're not if you're not on a golf course with a range finder, yeah.

02:41:42.000 Then you you, you know, you're gonna shoot something.

02:41:45.000 Yeah.

02:41:46.000 That's what they're for.

02:41:48.000 But it's just man, it's uh it it it it sucks that that to say things like you know, the the the these are the times we we currently inhabit, you know, and and that the that there's nothing that is an absolutely factual statement.

02:42:06.000 Yeah.

02:42:06.000 And it sucks to have to, you know to exist in in inside of that.

02:42:14.000 Yeah, you know.

02:42:15.000 Yeah.

02:42:15.000 It's very strange, man.

02:42:17.000 It's very strange.

02:42:18.000 Very strange.

02:42:19.000 Very strange.

02:42:19.000 It's very strange, and you know, we've talked about it a bunch of times, but it bears repeating.

02:42:24.000 I think a lot of it is highlighted by bots.

02:42:26.000 A lot of it is uh people are being inflamed online by people that aren't even real accounts.

02:42:33.000 Interesting.

02:42:34.000 See, I I don't I I don't study any of that.

02:42:36.000 Um, there's a lot of that going on.

02:42:38.000 I think it's a giant percentage of all online discourse or people are hating and saying mean things about people's political beliefs or anti-Israel things or anti uh Palestine things or whatever.

02:42:50.000 I I just think a giant ton of that is foreign foreign governments who are running these bot farms. 0.97

02:42:56.000 Wow.

02:42:57.000 And it's been proven.

02:42:58.000 They they know for a fact.

02:42:59.000 China actually got caught recently.

02:43:01.000 What was this the chat GPT thing?

02:43:04.000 They were using chat they were using open AI software.

02:43:08.000 Chat GPT blocked a bunch of accounts for multiple countries that had suspicious activity.

02:43:13.000 Yeah.

02:43:13.000 And they were commenting on like blocking of USAID money and a bunch of different like political subjects.

02:43:20.000 And what but what they're basically doing is just getting people to fight.

02:43:24.000 Just that's what they want.

02:43:25.000 They want constant fighting, constant in f constant like you we have to take action.

02:43:29.000 We have to constantly stoking the flames.

02:43:33.000 Right, right, right.

02:43:33.000 Wow.

02:43:34.000 So it's not even organic.

02:43:35.000 Some of it's organic for sure, but a lot of it is being enhanced by foreign governments for sure.

02:43:41.000 And probably some of it by our own government.

02:43:43.000 What they did with the with the the Manson family, you think they stopped there?

02:43:48.000 You think n some of that kind of stuff isn't going on right now that we don't know about right now because there hasn't been a Tom O'Neill to write a book about it.

02:43:55.000 Sure.

02:43:56.000 And then we also never know which stuff was the beta test for the you know, for that for that s you know, specific type of program or that specific type of op to be rolled out.

02:44:06.000 Yep.

02:44:07.000 And like where, you know, okay, let's let's let's see how they react to this.

02:44:11.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:44:12.000 Oh hell.

02:44:12.000 Yeah.

02:44:13.000 That worked like a charm.

02:44:14.000 Okay.

02:44:15.000 Activate more of those, you know.

02:44:19.000 Yeah.

02:44:21.000 Jesus.

02:44:25.000 How do we wrap this up on a positive note?

02:44:27.000 I don't think we can.

02:44:27.000 No.

02:44:28.000 I think it is what it is.

02:44:29.000 It is what it is.

02:44:30.000 I think we just have to deal with that.

02:44:31.000 Yeah.

02:44:32.000 Well, um listen, man, it was great to finally actually meet you.

02:44:35.000 This was amazing.

02:44:35.000 It's a lot of fun.

02:44:36.000 Thank you.

02:44:37.000 Thank you.

02:44:37.000 Yeah, no, I I I think you'll notice now I I I always need a few minutes to get warmed up.

02:44:42.000 Yeah.

02:44:43.000 Get settled in.

02:44:44.000 No, you seem cool right off the bat, man.

02:44:45.000 No, thank you.

02:44:48.000 Thank you.

02:44:50.000 Like we talked about, yeah.

02:44:51.000 You know, it wants to go somewhere else when I was trying to.

02:44:53.000 It's amazing your brain works as good as it does considering all the the things you've done to it.

02:44:57.000 Oh, that's awesome.

02:44:58.000 If you think about it.

02:44:59.000 Thank you.

02:44:59.000 Yeah.

02:45:00.000 Yeah.

02:45:00.000 There's that part.

02:45:01.000 Yeah.

02:45:02.000 There's that part.

02:45:03.000 Because people are like, you know, hey man, you should get some laser work on your face.

02:45:07.000 I'm like, dude, I'm lucky this thing is still fucking attached.

02:45:11.000 Yeah.

02:45:11.000 So go fuck yourself.

02:45:13.000 You actually look way better than you've looked at a long time ago.

02:45:16.000 Oh, right on.

02:45:17.000 I think you look at the sobriety suits you.

02:45:18.000 It really does.

02:45:19.000 Thank you.

02:45:20.000 You look really healthy.

02:45:20.000 You know, I took a page out of your book.

02:45:22.000 Um a very specific page.

02:45:24.000 And I and it if if even if it's a rumor it worked, um I use a sauna blanket, right?

02:45:30.000 This thing called higher dose.

02:45:32.000 And I'm not sponsored by them, I just bought one and I fucking love it.

02:45:35.000 I use it at home and then I hear, hey man, fucking Joe travels with his, right?

02:45:40.000 I have one of those sauna blankets.

02:45:42.000 But you travel with it.

02:45:43.000 I do if I know that there's not going to be a sauna.

02:45:46.000 Okay.

02:45:46.000 So I was.

02:45:50.000 I was like, well, fuck it.

02:45:51.000 If he's traveling with him, you definitely can though.

02:45:53.000 It's good.

02:45:54.000 They're great.

02:45:54.000 I'm gonna travel with mine.

02:45:55.000 Yeah.

02:45:55.000 So I've had it on this trip.

02:45:58.000 I I traveled with it.

02:45:59.000 It's a pain in the ass.

02:46:00.000 I'm lugging this rolling duffel and shit.

02:46:02.000 Who cares?

02:46:03.000 But so thank you.

02:46:04.000 It's worth it though.

02:46:05.000 Thank you for the idea.

02:46:06.000 Yeah.

02:46:07.000 Those are great because th those sauna blankets are great because they're portable and you could always just get it in.

02:46:12.000 Right, right.

02:46:13.000 I really genuinely prefer a real sauna if you have one because I like to stretch out in the sauna.

02:46:18.000 Sure.

02:46:18.000 It's it's the best time ever to stretch.

02:46:21.000 But as far as time with with the with the portable blanket is like a I I tell people it's like a bickram class without all the yelling and pain.

02:46:32.000 Right.

02:46:35.000 Well, do you do do you get drenched in that?

02:46:37.000 Oh, sure.

02:46:38.000 That's a lot of what Bikram is.

02:46:39.000 You know, a lot of it is heat shock therapy.

02:46:41.000 Right.

02:46:42.000 You know, it's also the yoga and the exercises, which are great.

02:46:45.000 And also the fact that you're more pliable when you're really warm and heated up like that.

02:46:49.000 Which really helps.

02:46:50.000 But a lot of what they're there was actually a study that they were doing at Harvard.

02:46:54.000 I don't know if they completed it.

02:46:56.000 But uh they were doing it a couple of years back about uh the benefits of hot yoga and whether they're comparable to the medical, the known medical benefits of sauna, which are pretty pretty well documented.

02:47:09.000 And and what what what was the conclusion?

02:47:12.000 I don't know.

02:47:13.000 I I have to think it's gotta be similar.

02:47:15.000 Because I've been in both.

02:47:16.000 You know, I've been in a lot of hot saunas and I've done a lot of hot yoga, and the you because of the exercise, I think you reach very similar body temperatures.

02:47:26.000 Got it.

02:47:26.000 And you your heart rate jacks up because you're so you're so hot and you're you're you know, you could barely cool yourself off with a glass of water when they let you have a sip.

02:47:35.000 Like in between things, you're allowed to take a sip of water.

02:47:37.000 Yeah.

02:47:38.000 But it's uh it's real similar.

02:47:39.000 And it's 90 minutes, you know, which is uh b fucking brutal.

02:47:43.000 Yeah you can get through a a real good bikrium hot yoga class at the end of that, man.

02:47:48.000 You're you're good.

02:47:49.000 You're yeah, you're you're you're gonna have a new you you have a different day in front of you.

02:47:53.000 A hundred percent.

02:47:55.000 We all did that every day.

02:47:56.000 It was like how everyone started their day.

02:47:58.000 The world would be so much more peaceful.

02:48:00.000 Yeah.

02:48:01.000 Yeah, no, you're right.

02:48:02.000 It really would.

02:48:03.000 Yeah, it really would.

02:48:04.000 It'd be a much, much, much better place.

02:48:06.000 And you don't have to fucking do anything hard in the gym.

02:48:10.000 You don't have to lift weights, you don't have to punch the bag.

02:48:12.000 All those things are great.

02:48:13.000 But yeah, just do a hot yoga class for 90 minutes every day.

02:48:18.000 You you will live in a different world.

02:48:20.000 Yep.

02:48:20.000 13 up, 13 down, right?

02:48:22.000 Yeah.

02:48:22.000 You'll live in a world of kindness and sweet people and hello, friend.

02:48:28.000 Right.

02:48:28.000 Because you've already you've already put yourself through something that nobody else can deliver the rest of the day.

02:48:35.000 Yeah.

02:48:35.000 They can't deliver that kind of pain you just inflicted on yourself.

02:48:39.000 And it's a constant battle to see if you can use a hundred percent effort.

02:48:44.000 Exactly.

02:48:44.000 You're constantly battling.

02:48:46.000 Can I hold this pose?

02:48:47.000 Yes.

02:48:49.000 Yeah.

02:48:50.000 Yeah.

02:48:50.000 And and there's no cheat zone.

02:48:52.000 Exactly.

02:48:53.000 There's no you can't.

02:48:55.000 You're always doing it a hundred percent of what you can do.

02:48:57.000 Right, right, right.

02:48:58.000 Yeah.

02:48:59.000 Yeah.

02:48:59.000 No, I I was I I was I was going to his his studio on on like Rexford in the early eighties.

02:49:07.000 Oh, wow.

02:49:08.000 Yeah, man.

02:49:09.000 We were with that original crew.

02:49:10.000 Wow.

02:49:11.000 Yeah.

02:49:11.000 There's one thing that was really cool.

02:49:13.000 Um, Kareem was in there.

02:49:15.000 Kaream.

02:49:16.000 Wow.

02:49:16.000 And you know, the lot of the stuff with the arms above the head.

02:49:19.000 He he can only go about here because I would come in late sometimes and Kareem would already be in there.

02:49:25.000 And so his shoes would be like next to his locker.

02:49:29.000 So I would put my still wearing my shoes inside his shoes just because I I just had to.

02:49:36.000 I mean, it's cool as fuck.

02:49:37.000 It's Kareem, right?

02:49:39.000 And so but then Quincy Jones is also in there, right?

02:49:43.000 And so um the mirror, you could see the front desk where you check in behind you, like you could see it, but it was behind us.

02:49:51.000 Uh we're all facing forward.

02:49:53.000 And for about a six-month period, you know, Quincy's in a little Speedo's, and he's giving, you know, he's giving it his all, he'd be in the middle of like the standing bow or the frickin' head to knee or something like a triangle or something really complicated, and he'd stop and he'd leave the class, but you'd see him going to the desk and writing shit down, fucking sweating in his speedo, right?

02:50:13.000 And he's writing shit down, he's sweating all over the paper.

02:50:16.000 He'd come back and try to, you know, resume what what he was doing.

02:50:20.000 And then this went on for a while, and we came to find out later.

02:50:24.000 Guess what he was working on?

02:50:26.000 If you think about the year, if you think about like what that how his mind was being expanded, right?

02:50:33.000 He was producing thriller.

02:50:35.000 Whoa.

02:50:36.000 Yeah.

02:50:37.000 And he's getting inspired during the the yoga during the Bikram Yoga.

02:50:43.000 You were kind of watching in the mirror the the the best, I think the largest selling album ever, perhaps.

02:50:50.000 Right?

02:50:50.000 Probably.

02:50:51.000 Yeah.

02:50:52.000 It's gotta be up there.

02:50:53.000 Being built behind us.

02:50:55.000 Wow.

02:50:55.000 Kind of a trip, right?

02:50:56.000 Oh.

02:50:57.000 Yeah.

02:50:57.000 Wow.

02:50:58.000 That shows you how hyper dialed in he is.

02:51:01.000 Yeah.

02:51:01.000 Even in the middle of a yoga class, you gotta run out.

02:51:03.000 He's probably thinking about it with every pose.

02:51:05.000 Exactly.

02:51:06.000 Yeah, or or some And just had to write it down.

02:51:08.000 How to write it down.

02:51:09.000 Wow.

02:51:09.000 How to write it down.

02:51:10.000 Because most people aren't allowed to leave the class.

02:51:12.000 But Quincy Jones has to write some shit down for Thriller.

02:51:14.000 You gotta let him leave.

02:51:16.000 Yeah.

02:51:17.000 He gets that pass, doesn't he?

02:51:19.000 Yeah.

02:51:19.000 He gets the pass.

02:51:20.000 Yeah.

02:51:21.000 He gets the pass.

02:51:23.000 All right, brother.

02:51:23.000 This is so much an absolute pleasure.

02:51:25.000 This is an honor.

02:51:26.000 Thank you.

02:51:26.000 Thank you for being here.

02:51:27.000 Thank you.

02:51:27.000 Best of luck for you and everything.

02:51:29.000 Thank you.

02:51:30.000 All right.

02:51:30.000 Right on.

The Joe Rogan Experience - September 11, 2025

Joe Rogan Experience #2378 - Charlie Sheen

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Summary

Transcript