The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2381 - Taylor Kitsch

00:00:03.000 The Joe Logan Experience Joe Rogan podcast by night all day five.

00:00:13.000 Yeah.

00:00:14.000 Five smells on the phone.

00:00:16.000 Damn.

00:00:16.000 Yeah, you have to well, see if you're gonna shoot something at 45, you really want to be comfortable at twice that.

00:00:23.000 Okay.

00:00:23.000 So I'll shoot 90, I'll shoot a hundred yards.

00:00:26.000 Yeah.

00:00:28.000 Yeah, because that way when you get into 40, it seems normal.

00:00:31.000 It seems easy.

00:00:31.000 Easy day.

00:00:32.000 Yeah.

00:00:33.000 It's all just about like affecting the floor.

00:00:35.000 Would you take a shot at 85?

00:00:36.000 No.

00:00:37.000 No, no, no, no, no.

00:00:37.000 Yeah.

00:00:38.000 That's far.

00:00:39.000 You might take a follow-up shot.

00:00:41.000 Like if you know the animals already gonna go down.

00:00:44.000 And you can if you can, you should always get a second shot on them.

00:00:47.000 So I'll take a second shot at 85, but I would have you had one and and it just fucking ran just gone.

00:00:47.000 Yeah.

00:00:54.000 Oh yeah.

00:00:55.000 Like 200, 300 yards.

00:00:57.000 What do you mean?

00:00:58.000 Like if you shoot it and you know hit it.

00:01:00.000 Yeah, hit it, and it just goes into the bush and you gotta track it, find it.

00:01:04.000 Yeah, you can track them though.

00:01:05.000 Yeah, just leaking all over the place.

00:01:07.000 Yeah, blood trails.

00:01:08.000 Yeah.

00:01:08.000 Especially if you use a large mechanical broadhead.

00:01:12.000 So I've shot one deer in my life, and uh it was after loan, and I was on Latrell.

00:01:19.000 Yeah, and I was uh with Latrell and a couple other seals on his ranch.

00:01:25.000 And um, you know, you're surrounded by seals, so it's like he's like, let's get you one.

00:01:29.000 I'm like, Yeah, let's go.

00:01:31.000 And uh so we're on the ranch.

00:01:33.000 Have you been there?

00:01:34.000 No.

00:01:34.000 Oh, it's great.

00:01:36.000 And uh I thought I don't know how many acres, but he had used to have like giraffes on the ranch and shit.

00:01:42.000 It was crazy.

00:01:43.000 Uh you would literally just be out there and there's a couple giraffes, and uh I think they're they've they're gone now. 0.99

00:01:50.000 But we pull into this like opening and he's like, There's gonna be some deer on the right.

00:01:56.000 Lo and behold, a couple deer.

00:01:58.000 He's like, Okay, take that one, pull out the M4. 1.00

00:02:02.000 Uh we're pretty far, but not crazy.

00:02:05.000 And I'm nervous, man.

00:02:06.000 I like of course I've trained with the M4 and and for loan and all this stuff, but I've never like shot shot.

00:02:13.000 And so I hit it, and he's like, fucking great shot.

00:02:18.000 Let's let's roll up.

00:02:20.000 Roll up, no deer.

00:02:22.000 And you can hear it though, and it's like just losing his fucking mind.

00:02:29.000 Oh no.

00:02:29.000 And I'm like, oh fuck.

00:02:31.000 And so the other seal, he's like, let's go.

00:02:34.000 So we walk and walk and walk and finally get around this corner, and we have to put him down with a pistol.

00:02:42.000 And I was like, Why'd you have to put him down with a pistol?

00:02:45.000 Just because we walked right up on it, and it was just dying.

00:02:48.000 Yeah.

00:02:49.000 And so I was just like, okay, this is part of it.

00:02:54.000 Yeah.

00:02:54.000 Um, and then we, you know, ate it and all that kind of stuff.

00:02:57.000 But it was uh That's the good part.

00:02:59.000 Yeah, it really is.

00:03:00.000 Um, but that was my one experience.

00:03:03.000 But I did, I did go uh with my bro loves hunting.

00:03:08.000 And uh we went out in Montana and there's on a on a friend's ranch in any of the backcountry, and he was Bocking animals for photography.

00:03:18.000 So it's the same thing.

00:03:20.000 Watching the wind, um getting up fucking before light hits, just getting deep. 0.69

00:03:25.000 You're way up there too, calling, all that kind of stuff.

00:03:28.000 And uh it's just so fun, and once you get in tight, your adrenaline's just buzzing, and we had eyes on this like big boy.

00:03:40.000 And uh so then I'm doing the he's like working his way up the mountain up this uh pass, and I'm doing the antlers against the tree and then the antlers and getting it angry, getting it worked up, and it starts bugling even more, and you're like I'm not even taking the shot, and I'm like, this is fucking legit.

00:04:00.000 And he like he pulls his fucking mask down and he's like getting into it. 0.52

00:04:04.000 I see him like army crawling up there, missed.

00:04:08.000 But um, we had a blast.

00:04:10.000 It's more of like a bonding experience, man, than anything for us, but it's a very intense experience, especially because they they scream and truly the sound like gives you goosebumps.

00:04:21.000 It does.

00:04:22.000 Especially when you're close to them.

00:04:24.000 Yeah, and it just goes through your body, it shakes you.

00:04:27.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:04:28.000 Yeah, there's nothing like elk.

00:04:30.000 I know.

00:04:31.000 It's really fun.

00:04:31.000 I know.

00:04:32.000 Yeah.

00:04:32.000 Well, it takes a lot of work.

00:04:34.000 It is you earn it.

00:04:36.000 Yeah.

00:04:36.000 It's a different hunt, right?

00:04:38.000 Than just rifle.

00:04:39.000 It's just rifle up there, and at least in that area, it's like sometimes your your hunt's under an hour.

00:04:47.000 You know, with Bo, you're in one.

00:04:50.000 You're this is days possibly.

00:04:50.000 Yeah.

00:04:52.000 Oh yeah, yeah.

00:04:54.000 Especially if you want to get within 50.

00:04:54.000 Yeah.

00:04:56.000 Yeah.

00:04:57.000 And then the magic.

00:04:59.000 Yes.

00:05:00.000 Yeah.

00:05:01.000 Throwing up the grass, checking it all the time.

00:05:04.000 Fuck it's so fun.

00:05:06.000 You live in Montana now?

00:05:07.000 I do.

00:05:08.000 How long you been out there?

00:05:09.000 Five, just over five years now.

00:05:12.000 That's awesome.

00:05:13.000 Well made this choose that.

00:05:15.000 Man, flying into Austin.

00:05:17.000 I was here 16 plus years.

00:05:19.000 So it's just memory fucking lane.

00:05:21.000 It's crazy.

00:05:22.000 Crazy.

00:05:22.000 This is where it all started, man.

00:05:24.000 Yeah.

00:05:24.000 Really?

00:05:25.000 Like Friday Night Lights.

00:05:27.000 Um, we were like school for the deaf just down the street.

00:05:31.000 Uh land in the airport.

00:05:33.000 Uh Dylan Field was just across the airport.

00:05:36.000 So so many memories of Pete and I. We were staying at the four seasons shooting the pilot, learned to box here at Richard Lord's.

00:05:45.000 Um, if you don't know this guy, he's fucking amazing.

00:05:48.000 Richard Lord.

00:05:49.000 Yeah, Richard Lord.

00:05:50.000 There's a doc on him, actually.

00:05:51.000 He's up.

00:05:52.000 I don't even know if he's still around.

00:05:54.000 He was pretty old when when uh he taught me how to box.

00:05:57.000 But um wicked dude, just zenned out.

00:06:01.000 He was probably in his mid-60s, so he'd be up there now.

00:06:06.000 But um, yeah, Pete literally was like before we hit camera, it was like, hey, you want to go box?

00:06:11.000 And I was like, All right.

00:06:13.000 Fucking and I loved it. 0.96

00:06:17.000 I loved it.

00:06:18.000 And I still mean Peter Bird Pete Bird, yeah.

00:06:21.000 Yeah, his own gym.

00:06:21.000 He loves boxing.

00:06:23.000 LA Of course.

00:06:23.000 Of course.

00:06:24.000 I do not spar with him anymore.

00:06:27.000 He's it's dirty Pete is his fucking boxing name.

00:06:30.000 I bet you didn't fucking tell you that, did he?

00:06:33.000 Why is it dirty Pete?

00:06:34.000 Because he's earned that, man.

00:06:36.000 He's uh so you know, you'll do body shots only or stuff like that and spar, keep each other honest.

00:06:43.000 Right.

00:06:44.000 Um, but fuck you get him once, it's there's no rules.

00:06:48.000 There's no rules.

00:06:50.000 And it's like you're on camera in like a week or something, like trying to give you a black gun.

00:06:55.000 And then you like take it and you're kind of shocked at first.

00:06:59.000 It just goes from like two to eleven so quick.

00:07:03.000 That's funny.

00:07:03.000 But yeah, it's the best workout.

00:07:05.000 We have a gym connected here.

00:07:07.000 So last time we're gonna go to the house.

00:07:08.000 Yeah, it's right next door.

00:07:08.000 No way here?

00:07:09.000 We have shit smart.

00:07:11.000 So we worked out together and cold plunged the whole deal.

00:07:14.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:07:15.000 He gets after it.

00:07:16.000 He does.

00:07:17.000 He pushes.

00:07:18.000 I mean, even when we shot uh American primeval, he was uh you his little garage setup, man, cold plunge, uh steam room, like it's he's gotta have it.

00:07:31.000 Yeah, he's gotta have it for that brain of his.

00:07:34.000 Yeah.

00:07:34.000 Yeah, America Primeval was fucking awesome, dude.

00:07:37.000 Thanks, man.

00:07:38.000 That show's so good.

00:07:39.000 I started white rot watching it with my wife, but she's like, Nope, gotta go.

00:07:44.000 She can't handle it's a lie.

00:07:47.000 That's a fucking intense, but also probably super accurate.

00:07:51.000 Yes, one of the most accurate representations of what life was probably like in the West back then.

00:07:57.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:07:58.000 I learned so much on that, man.

00:08:01.000 Um, I mean, living in Montana, I got to uh this cowgirl friend of mine who I met at that ranch, uh, had been working with this shaman just outside of Livingston, and I was telling her I'm playing a guy that kind of raised by Shoshone and all this, and like that was kind of where I hung my hat of like if this guy lost his family at six or seven and then adopted or sold to the Shoshone, this is who he is.

00:08:27.000 He's more Shoshone than he is white. 1.00

00:08:30.000 So I started working with this shaman, uh, which was incredible, and then um went down to the Shoshone reservation, Wind River, worked with the elders there.

00:08:42.000 It's tough, man, because obviously going there, you're like, and they knew I was coming, but it's like you're talking to these elders, and it's like we meet five minutes in, and I'm like, so what do you what do you guys do when you bury your wife?

00:08:58.000 And you're asking these heavy, heavy questions, cultural questions, yes, yeah.

00:09:04.000 That is true meaning behind it all.

00:09:06.000 So she took a long beat and she's like, I'll get back to you on that.

00:09:10.000 I'll get back to you on that.

00:09:11.000 And then I went into this other room at the school there, and this other elderly woman comes in a wheelchair, and she sits there and she's like, What do you want to know?

00:09:22.000 And so we just sat there for hours, and she was incredibly transparent and just really open, and I would take all this and go to Pete and be like, listen, if we're gonna we gotta honor these guys, so let's do it right.

00:09:34.000 And he was all ears, and uh the Shoshone was very tough to learn. 1.00

00:09:39.000 When you say working with a shaman, like what did what did you do?

00:09:42.000 Yeah, so we'll do like two hours sweats.

00:09:45.000 Um how do they have that set up?

00:09:48.000 Like a fire in the middle of it or something.

00:09:50.000 Yeah, so it's uh fire is always burning before you start the sweat, and then he'll grab river rocks from Yellowstone uh river, and then the fire's going, and he'll bring these rocks that are in the fire into the middle of the sweat lodge, and uh there's four doors to this one, and uh you'll talk you'll fast the day before, and um you'll he'll put the river rocks in the middle, and they're smoking hot, right?

00:10:18.000 And then he brings river water from a spring or whatever, um, and then you have you fast and then you uh have your intention ties, so you would sit down with him for an hour or two and talk about what you want out of this.

00:10:32.000 Um sometimes it's like, do I want to have a kid?

00:10:36.000 Or a buddy of mine was using heroin for something, so I would bring him and have a sweat and just give him my energy in this sweat to help him, or my dad passed or something, or some it can be light too.

00:10:49.000 It doesn't have to be so heavy.

00:10:51.000 Um but he's been amazing, like before like I start a movie in a couple weeks, and I'm just gonna go do a sweat and get ready for that, and I just whatever he's gonna energy he's gonna give me to go into this shoot, um, and then for the for prime evil, it was fucking beautiful.

00:11:12.000 Like I wasn't a good rider, I'm still not on horses.

00:11:16.000 And uh he gave me like my horse has a feather.

00:11:19.000 If you really watch, he's I have four horses in it, but my first horse has a feather in him, and I wanted to do all these and honor the horses, uh, which obviously the Shoshone do. 1.00

00:11:29.000 Um so he he just taught me a shit ton about just to honor that tribe and honor what what they do and and to be as authentic as possible.

00:11:40.000 So that helped me root Isaac so much.

00:11:43.000 But yeah, that's a such an intense character.

00:11:46.000 And imagine like you're playing a guy who's a white guy who's like deeply ingrained with Native American life, and so it's like it's all it's very conflicted, there's a lot going on there, but you want you you want to embody what this guy would be like, yeah.

00:12:03.000 Yeah, and you're you meet him when he's mourning, right?

00:12:07.000 And he's lost his wife and his son, and he married into the tribe. 0.95

00:12:11.000 Uh so the the female chief, I married her daughter and had a son.

00:12:17.000 And um, so when you meet Isaac, he's just in mourning, and everything is full circle, everything is circular with them.

00:12:26.000 So the only way he could reunite with his family is to is to die honorably.

00:12:32.000 So that influences the way I fight.

00:12:35.000 So the way Isaac fights is all in.

00:12:38.000 Wild, wild, like biting, yeah.

00:12:41.000 I had I just got chills thinking about this.

00:12:43.000 There's a fight, I think, in episode two, which was fucking insane, and we didn't rehearse.

00:12:49.000 This is very berg, and we have these one guy's black feet, unbelievable guy, and I kept using him because he's a great stunt man, and um, so Pete's like, you guys are gonna fucking roll down this hill, and I want you to fight your way to the river, and then we'll cut, and then I want you to fight in the river. 0.79

00:13:10.000 This is like maybe 28 degrees in that river.

00:13:15.000 The safety guy is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is not cool.

00:13:21.000 And this is all like on the go.

00:13:23.000 So JJ Dashnon, my double, is like all in.

00:13:27.000 He loves this.

00:13:28.000 This is near the end of the shoot too.

00:13:31.000 So and uh everyone's game.

00:13:34.000 And um that fight was just so fucking intense.

00:13:39.000 So is it choreographed at all?

00:13:41.000 Nothing, nothing, literally nothing.

00:13:43.000 So how do you know like when he's gonna punch or you're gonna punch?

00:13:47.000 So during if it's you and me, it's like you will walk the area, make sure there's no uh sticks or whatever that were gonna impale us, and during the fight, I'll be like, okay, I'm gonna flip you.

00:14:01.000 Oh wow, and then it's like, okay, I'm gonna get on top.

00:14:04.000 And so you have to say it.

00:14:06.000 Yeah, and then Pete will be yelling behind camera to be like, okay, now work your way on top of them, and then we'll fight, work our way, roll, work our way, and then he's like, Okay, find a rock, kill him.

00:14:18.000 Jesus Christ, and then that war cry, which I'm so proud of. 0.63

00:14:24.000 I worked on that forever, but uh, and I had talked to Pete about it for you know months before, but we're just rolling so quick, and I told our A camera, Brett, to uh get in tight.

00:14:40.000 I mean, any shot with Pete is fucking tight, which I love.

00:14:43.000 Um, and I'm like, B, I'm gonna I'm gonna do this war cry, so don't go down to him or and he's like, gotcha.

00:14:51.000 And so when I did it, Pete finally called Cut and he goes, What the fuck?

00:14:57.000 I was not fucking ready for that.

00:15:00.000 And uh it's those moments though that that he allows you to just go, you know.

00:15:05.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:15:06.000 Well, he's such a smart guy, he is, man.

00:15:08.000 When he's dialed, he's like lone, he was just so present and early, and he just I mean, we're surrounded by seals, as you know, every take, and um, I don't think you could do what we did to in prep of just like no producers, no Pete, no nothing.

00:15:27.000 It's just every morning, 7 a.m., 8 a.m., we're up in the mountain uh with seals with Ray Mendoza and uh amazing guys, and uh we oh first week is like first day, man.

00:15:41.000 I'm Canadian, so I haven't shot a fucking gun in my life.

00:15:47.000 The first time you ever shot a gun was alone survivor?

00:15:50.000 Well, yes, that's hilarious.

00:15:52.000 So, first Chris Karachi, who's a fucking legend, a man's man.

00:15:57.000 Um I think he was like one of the on the first team uh SEAL team units, and the deepest voice you've ever heard in your life, and like a fucking man, and uh he took me under his wing, and so our first day was live fire, and Karachi took me aside, he's like, Hey, it's you and me, and I'm like, let's go.

00:16:21.000 And I'm like, as fit as I ever have been.

00:16:24.000 I was running town lake doing the Murph every fucking three times a week with weighted vests, and uh just at Lake Travis high school there doing pull-ups, and it was unbelievable fun training for that, and um first day was live fire,

00:16:42.000 and that fucking gets you right that the you do not fuck around, and uh they make sure of it, and then uh I haven't I hadn't met Marcus yet, and Foster uh had drove down I think from Texas to uh New Mexico with with Latrell.

00:17:01.000 I was pretty jealous of that.

00:17:03.000 It's like oh you got to spend some real time with Marcus, and uh I was playing Mike, obviously, and and uh who is Mark's best friend, and so we're on this fucking range doing live fire, like upside down reloads, combat reloads, jamming, blindfold.

00:17:19.000 It was just it was full on, and Emil's actually a great shot.

00:17:23.000 Um Marcus comes, everything goes full stop, and right when he's coming, there's a PA on the other side, and she's bringing fucking banana shakes out, which is not a good look for these actors, and Marcus looks at these shakes and he looks at the actors and he's like, What the fuck is happening?

00:17:48.000 You guys don't get shakes in between and one of the actors just shamelessly goes up and grabs one of these banana shakes, and he's just talking to Marcus, meeting him for the first time.

00:18:02.000 And I'm like, you might want to put that down, like wait till he fucking leaves before.

00:18:08.000 But and then uh it's just a beautiful experience, man.

00:18:12.000 Um the second week of training, we were doing simunitions.

00:18:17.000 Have you done that?

00:18:18.000 No.

00:18:19.000 Oh, you would love it.

00:18:21.000 So this'll break skin.

00:18:23.000 And uh they hurt.

00:18:25.000 It's like a hard plastic paint tipped, and they fly like that, right?

00:18:30.000 They arc?

00:18:31.000 Because they don't go as fast.

00:18:31.000 Yeah.

00:18:32.000 Right.

00:18:33.000 And uh, so we have Sims now, and Mike would I my guy decides if we push left, push right, if we engage, get the fuck out of here.

00:18:42.000 Let's buy ourselves some time, whatever.

00:18:44.000 I gotta make these calls.

00:18:46.000 And um, so the seals are in tally gear, and they're like, go up the mountain.

00:18:52.000 What's tally gear?

00:18:52.000 Taliban gear.

00:18:53.000 Oh they're all dressed in tally gear.

00:18:57.000 So we meet up at the bottom of this fucking mountain, and they're all in taliban gear, and you're like, oh god, we're so fucked. 1.00

00:19:07.000 So they're like, give us 10 minutes, and uh, when you get ambushed, we're gonna watch and we're gonna engage, and we're gonna see what you do, see what you've learned the last week, and you're like, All right, let's go.

00:19:23.000 So it happens, and you're just walking, right?

00:19:26.000 Just like we are in the film, you're just walking and waiting to get ambushed, you know shit's about to hit, and so they hit and you hit the ground right away to figure out where the bullets are coming, and uh, and you can hear them, which really sets you straight.

00:19:44.000 And so I'm looking over at a meal, and I'm like, fucking uh 12 o'clock.

00:19:49.000 They're just straight up in these trees.

00:19:52.000 I'm like, 12 o'clock, fucking push right.

00:19:55.000 We gotta get the because we're in this open field.

00:19:57.000 I just got chills.

00:19:58.000 We're in this open field, and I'm like, get the fucking cover, dude.

00:20:03.000 We gotta fucking fight our way to cover.

00:20:06.000 And Emil's like taking his time, and he's like, bro, ah, fuck, all right, it's fucking intense.

00:20:17.000 And I'm like, push right.

00:20:19.000 I got Foster behind me, who's like so in it.

00:20:23.000 He's fucking crawling through cactus and like bleeding, and I'm on the ground crawling, screaming at a meal.

00:20:31.000 Marcus comes out full, we got hammered.

00:20:35.000 I literally don't think we got through a mag.

00:20:38.000 Like, and Marcus comes out, and we're not laughing, but it's too light, like we're taking it too lightly.

00:20:48.000 And I'm like, Emil, you gotta push, man.

00:20:51.000 If I'm pushing, if I'm telling you, so Marcus comes in and he's like full stop, and he goes, I thought he was gonna rip a meal, and he comes over to me, and he's like, Is this funny?

00:21:04.000 And I'm like, No, sir.

00:21:05.000 And he's like, Do you understand the stakes of this?

00:21:09.000 Like, every one of you are fucking dead.

00:21:12.000 You're all fucking dead, and so he just rips me.

00:21:16.000 He's like, It's your fault.

00:21:18.000 This guy doesn't want to fucking move, make a move.

00:21:21.000 Like, you're dead.

00:21:22.000 Do you understand that?

00:21:23.000 And I was just like, just leveled, right?

00:21:27.000 And uh, it's a beautiful learning curve for me.

00:21:30.000 And um, we got better, but I mean, any time, there's one time I won't kill you with these stories, but one time I was like fucking proud of myself.

00:21:42.000 Like, we got in a ditch, we're it was too much, simmunition, same thing, and we got in a ditch, and we're all here, and I'm fucking looking downrange like fucking we're in one, we're still in a fight, and then no joke, Mark Simos, the sniper seal, grabs my fucking shoulder, and he's like, boom, and I'm like, where the fuck did you come from?

00:22:06.000 Like, that's how good these motherfuckers are, man. 1.00

00:22:09.000 So it was like it was just an amazing experience.

00:22:13.000 When you train for something like that, like how much time is spent, like when you know you got the role, yeah, and you know you're gonna film, like, how much time do you give yourself to prepare for something like that?

00:22:22.000 Longer, I love prep.

00:22:24.000 So yeah, I do, yeah.

00:22:26.000 Why do you love that?

00:22:27.000 The more time I can root myself into This guy, especially when the stakes are so high like Murph. 1.00

00:22:34.000 Um, I mean, physically, uh, was I did this little comedy uh in Canada, and if you watch this movie, and I was training for Lone during this movie, so it's called Skirwink Trail in Newfoundland,

00:22:52.000 beautiful fucking trail, and it's me, my best friend of 30 years, and my assistant who is a great guy, and we're training for loan, getting ready, doing like 50 pound runs, uh, weighted vests, all this kind of stuff, a skirt skirwink trail.

00:23:07.000 So if you watch this movie, like at the beginning to the end, my body goes from like this to just fucking stacked in this movie, and so there's that, but uh obviously 90% of this is mental, right?

00:23:22.000 The seals, and so um I just love that.

00:23:26.000 I love the prep.

00:23:27.000 I love that pressure.

00:23:28.000 Pete did a beautiful thing, bringing nine 19 guys died on the op uh and the rescue mission.

00:23:35.000 So it was like he brought all the families.

00:23:39.000 Uh, I think it was a week before we hit camera, and um man, you know, I'm going, it's I'm in the elevator at the Hyatt in uh Santa Fe or New or uh Albuquerque, and I'm fucking nervous, like throw up nervous, because I'm meeting Dan Murphy now, and I'm like, Did I do enough?

00:23:59.000 Am I really fucking ready?

00:24:01.000 Am I worthy of this shit?

00:24:03.000 And then we all have that fucking voice in our head that's like, you're a pile of shit.

00:24:09.000 You didn't do enough, you're not ready.

00:24:11.000 And that's why prep so much because it eliminated it's like a fight, right?

00:24:16.000 UFC or anything, these guys fucking you prep to eliminate that self-doubt, so you can be like, I'm fucking ready for you, you know.

00:24:24.000 So it's the same mentality, and so that was um my first words to Dan were like, I'm gonna everything I have into this, I'm gonna do it as authentically as I know how.

00:24:35.000 And he was just so fucking gracious with me.

00:24:38.000 Gave Mike's fi uh uh firefighter uh patch and just told me some amazing stories, and I'm super close with the Murphy family still.

00:24:48.000 But um, I love Prep, man.

00:24:50.000 I I think it's you gotta have it, especially with Pete's process, like if you're he's so off the cuff sometimes, and if it's an idea he has on the day, which he really leans into his gut instinct, and obviously that's guided him pretty fucking beautifully, but you just gotta be ready for anything, and if you don't prep, you're not rooted, you're not ready for anything, you know.

00:25:16.000 So um that one was a special one, yeah.

00:25:21.000 Do you what what when you get into a character like if you're doing Lone Survivor, do you try to stay in that character all day long?

00:25:30.000 Like do you try to do you break for lunch and just be yourself?

00:25:34.000 I try for sure, but you're still trying to stay in the character.

00:25:37.000 No, I try and be speaking.

00:25:38.000 I try and be with you in the moment at lunch.

00:25:41.000 And not even though it's gonna be weird though, it is weird because you're on location, yeah, yeah, on top of the fucking mountain.

00:25:49.000 You're taking the ski lift up there, and it's so important to be this guy, yeah.

00:25:53.000 Yeah, and then you're having lunch with the Taliban guys, you know. 0.95

00:25:59.000 And they're coming and they're like, hey man, we're big fans.

00:26:02.000 Oh god, and you're like, this is fucking weird.

00:26:05.000 Yeah, we're supposed to be shooting at each other in 20 minutes.

00:26:07.000 I'm about to fucking blow your head off, man.

00:26:10.000 And uh, so I mean, Wahlberg's quite light in between, so that can be infectious in a good way.

00:26:16.000 Ben is very like he's he carries that weight in a beautiful way.

00:26:21.000 That's why he's so good.

00:26:22.000 Uh a meal's quite light.

00:26:25.000 Um, but yeah, there's definitely a tone, right?

00:26:29.000 Uh especially when you're surrounded by the seals, it's such a quick reminder of what you're doing or serving.

00:26:35.000 Um, but yeah, you're up on that mountain having a sandwich helping camera crew move their shit.

00:26:41.000 Um, and then lunch is always quick, so you're right back into it.

00:26:46.000 And it depends on the day.

00:26:48.000 Like, if I know like the climb up to Murph's death was you're just carrying more weight that day.

00:26:56.000 You just cannot fuck around with you've better get that fucking right.

00:27:00.000 Right.

00:27:00.000 And I remember being uh Emil comes up to me and he's like, Hey, if we get off tonight, I'll go full circle with this.

00:27:09.000 If we get off tonight, uh, you want to go see Eddie Vetter?

00:27:14.000 I'm like, fuck yeah.

00:27:16.000 I love me some veterans and that was in uh Albuquerque.

00:27:20.000 And so we go to Vetter, meet him.

00:27:22.000 Vetter calls him up, sings a couple songs to him.

00:27:25.000 It was unbelievable night.

00:27:27.000 And uh Pete the next day comes up to me, and we're back up in the mountain doing some uh the fall off the the cliff.

00:27:36.000 We're doing that the next day.

00:27:38.000 And uh Pete's like, hey, your death scene, I want to talk about it.

00:27:43.000 And I'm like, all day, what do you what do you want to know?

00:27:45.000 I got some thoughts on it, and you know, I talked to Marcus in the hotel, and he won he remembers one specific thing he'd like me to do, and so Murph brought was pushing himself up with his rifle, uh climbing up this rock.

00:28:00.000 So I'm like, that's really all I want to make sure for Marcus's sake that I get that in.

00:28:06.000 And uh he's like, Yeah, yeah.

00:28:08.000 Uh, we're gonna shoot this um in a parking lot.

00:28:13.000 Uh uh just outside uh on uh off the highway in Albuquerque, and I'm like, yeah, right.

00:28:19.000 And he's like, no, no.

00:28:21.000 I want to control the light and have a beautiful landscape behind Murph.

00:28:27.000 And I'm like, Pete, you you're fucking killing me.

00:28:30.000 We're gonna do this in a fucking parking lot.

00:28:33.000 And so it was my last day as Murph.

00:28:37.000 And I love music.

00:28:39.000 Uh I'll always have a playlist for whatever character.

00:28:43.000 And um explosions in the sky, who's Austin, who was at the time Austin based, great guys, and Pete uses them all the time.

00:28:50.000 Um, and they're just acoustic, no lyrics, which is they're fucking amazing.

00:28:55.000 And so there's one song that has a heartbeat in it, and that was my song for Murph, and it slows down in it, and so I go, you know, I prepping in the in the trailer.

00:29:07.000 I walk down through this fucking parking lot, and I'm like, oh dude, I'm not in it.

00:29:11.000 I'm not ready for this.

00:29:12.000 And then I'm getting mad at Pete for putting me in a parking lot to do this shit.

00:29:16.000 I'm looking at fucking Sandia Hotel, getting ready to go like this most epic death on, you know, you it doesn't get more epic than that guy, really.

00:29:29.000 Put in the tunes, and they built this big stage that was like four feet high in the the rocks, and then surrounded it by green screen, and cameras on the phantom camera, which is that Uber slow motion, that's where you see the the spit coming out of Murph's mouth and all this,

00:29:47.000 and and I just broke down, like just I puddled myself right before it was just like months and months and months of thinking about it, and uh and prepping and putting so much pressure, and then I had explosions in my head, and I was like, God damn, this is too like you're overwhelmed with emotion.

00:30:07.000 And Pete comes up and he's like, get it out, and so I took five minutes, camera crews waiting.

00:30:14.000 We did like I told Pete I want that rifle to him to climb up with the the rifle, and um I think we did three takes, and then the camera crew, Jacques, was uh he's a DP, he DP'd American primeval, but he was a camera op on on loan, and uh he was working that slow-mo camera, and he just goes to Pete, he's like, We've got it, we've got it.

00:30:40.000 But is it weird watching it on film knowing that you shot it in a parking lot, like trying to this is the first time I told this story.

00:30:49.000 Um very much like we would go we went and screwed the first time I saw this film, man, was in uh I think it wasn't Redskins, it was Denver, the Broncos.

00:31:03.000 We go and show this to the Broncos, and uh Robert Griffin the third was the quarterback, I think.

00:31:12.000 Yeah, he was there, and um I was with Ben Foster, and Ben had seen it, and I was I watched it the first time with the Denver fucking Broncos sitting in this theater, and I was a mess.

00:31:26.000 A mess.

00:31:27.000 Yeah.

00:31:28.000 Yeah, it's just the pressure, right?

00:31:30.000 I think.

00:31:30.000 Yeah.

00:31:31.000 But I love it.

00:31:32.000 Do it honor.

00:31:33.000 Yeah, truly.

00:31:34.000 And then my first email was to Dan, his dad, and he thanked me, and that's all that really f and Marcus.

00:31:41.000 But yeah, they thanked me, and that was really all I fucking need.

00:31:45.000 That's gotta be a very intense kind of a role because you're playing a real human being whose family's still alive.

00:31:53.000 Maureen, Johnny, Dan, uh, the whole family, and there's a destroyer, uh fucking beach, uh male uh UPS, or not UPS, but like a fucking um stamp or whatever named after him.

00:32:15.000 There's fucking it's insane.

00:32:17.000 There's all these huge uh honorary plaques and statues and all this kind of stuff.

00:32:24.000 So if you let it like overwhelm you, it definitely can.

00:32:28.000 Yeah, but it's been I mean, that's where all this, my love for these guys is is really stemmed from that, you know.

00:32:37.000 Um that's where it's like I I've played SEALs a lot, and it's it's I'm never raised military or my grandfather, sir.

00:32:49.000 But it was it's an infectious group, man.

00:32:53.000 It's like a brotherhood that's so real, exceptional humans.

00:32:57.000 Truly, truly, and people don't understand these guys are the best fucking problem solvers on the planet.

00:33:02.000 They're doctors, they're lawyers, they're fucking smart.

00:33:06.000 And uh, so I don't know, I've just been embedded, and I think once you're in with these guys, you know, um you're you're you don't take it for granted.

00:33:18.000 It's like I made calls to a buddy of mine that uh one of the most decorated seals alive, and uh he trained me for loan, uh Ray Mendoza.

00:33:28.000 He just came out with Warfare, uh, that movie that's uh his best friend, uh, his story.

00:33:34.000 And um, unbelievable guy.

00:33:37.000 But I'll call Ray, and Ray was doing second unit on on uh terminalist Dark Wolf, and he's like a brother to me.

00:33:45.000 And no joke.

00:33:47.000 You're like, hey man, I need a favor.

00:33:49.000 And he's like, he'll fucking bury someone for you.

00:33:53.000 This guy, like, yeah, what do you what do you need?

00:33:56.000 What what is it?

00:33:57.000 And it's like it's just that whole brotherhood that it's like unquestionably, undeniably loyal.

00:34:05.000 Yeah, and like Marcus, like I mean, we're chatting a lot lately just because I'm shooting in Huntsville in a couple weeks and he's not far, but like my my sister, I took some time off to help my sister because she was using uh drugs, and um, and I just needed somewhere to fucking go.

00:34:26.000 Just I can't be in Austin.

00:34:27.000 I tried LA, she's still using, she's still relapsing. 0.99

00:34:32.000 I fucking Marcus, call Marcus.

00:34:34.000 I'm like, let's I this is what's going on.

00:34:37.000 He's like, bring her here, bring her to the ranch. 0.90

00:34:40.000 There's no fucking fentanyl, there's no heroin, there's no meth on this fucking ranch, man.

00:34:44.000 Bring her here. 0.98

00:34:45.000 And so I she's not using at the ranch.

00:34:49.000 So we went to the ranch, and 10 days I know she's gonna be fucking clean. 1.00

00:34:54.000 Because there's just all we're doing is driving around looking for hogs, yeah, or like hanging out, fishing, whatever it is. 0.95

00:35:02.000 But he's just a uh beautiful guy, man.

00:35:06.000 And where he is now is just he's lighter on his feet.

00:35:10.000 It's so beautiful to see.

00:35:11.000 He was hurting on loan, going through a lot of fucking um surgery still, all this stuff.

00:35:18.000 So uh they're just so loyal and just great guys.

00:35:23.000 Yeah, very, very exceptional people.

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00:37:15.000 Have you been paying attention to what they're doing in Texas for veterans this I began initiative?

00:37:21.000 Yeah.

00:37:22.000 Awesome.

00:37:23.000 Awesome.

00:37:23.000 Huge.

00:37:24.000 It's it's so remarkable how effective it is.

00:37:27.000 And how many people it's completely saved their life and changed their life.

00:37:27.000 Yeah.

00:37:31.000 Yeah.

00:37:32.000 And I was just thinking about that for your sister.

00:37:32.000 You know?

00:37:34.000 You know, I don't know.

00:37:35.000 Yeah, she's clean ten years now, just under 10.

00:37:38.000 Yeah, thanks.

00:37:38.000 That's amazing.

00:37:39.000 Uh she's a nurse now. 1.00

00:37:41.000 Which is incredible.

00:37:41.000 Oh, wow.

00:37:42.000 That's great.

00:37:43.000 Yeah, she's i it's really kind of like that's where that nonprofit comes from.

00:37:50.000 Um I just started it called Howler's Ridge.

00:37:53.000 And um, I didn't even know, like when she got clean, like there's some fucking crazy stories I can tell you.

00:38:00.000 Um but she's she got clean and she hit me up and she was at a sober escape with all the girls she got clean with. 1.00

00:38:08.000 And I'm like, what is that?

00:38:10.000 And it's basically a reunion with all the people that you went through, your sober living or whatnot.

00:38:15.000 The last place she got clean was she was supposed to be there 90 days, she's there nine months. 0.97

00:38:20.000 Whoa.

00:38:20.000 Yeah, that's what I said.

00:38:23.000 Um and uh so she was at this sober escape, and so Howler's Ridge is basically a place I think we all know an addict if we're not ourselves.

00:38:34.000 And uh, and we're gonna help vets as well, but it's the sober side of addiction.

00:38:40.000 So it's a place any time you're using, at least through my experience, watching my sister die a couple times, get narcanned a couple times.

00:38:50.000 I mean, sh I've seen her detox on my fucking kitchen floor, which is the worst fucking sight of anybody to watch someone in so much pain. 1.00

00:38:59.000 Um, but um this this spot is for her, you know, where where it all started.

00:39:05.000 And this is I think anytime you're using right, we're all habitual humans.

00:39:09.000 You work out six, seven times a week.

00:39:12.000 Uh you need that for your brain.

00:39:14.000 So do I. And once you get in that habit, I change.

00:39:18.000 If I don't work out in three, four days, I'm a fucking asshole.

00:39:22.000 And I get depressed.

00:39:23.000 Yeah.

00:39:24.000 Like I get anxious.

00:39:24.000 Yeah.

00:39:26.000 Yep.

00:39:26.000 Yeah, very.

00:39:27.000 Me too.

00:39:27.000 And and I get and I beat the shit out of myself.

00:39:31.000 Right, mentally, yeah.

00:39:32.000 Yeah.

00:39:32.000 Feel terrible.

00:39:33.000 Yeah.

00:39:34.000 Um, so we all create this environment, whether it's good or bad.

00:39:38.000 Yeah.

00:39:39.000 And I think with my sis, I just didn't have anywhere to take her.

00:39:43.000 And I needed to pull her out.

00:39:45.000 Cause there was a time I she relapsed like four or five times in LA, and I was just finishing True Detective when I got her.

00:39:53.000 And uh, I mean, there's stories, but like it's pretty fucked up that whole system.

00:39:59.000 Cause you have someone that's dying, right?

00:40:01.000 It's someone you raised or your brother, fucking best friend, whatever.

00:40:05.000 And uh, I bring her to this.

00:40:08.000 Well, first she had to detox, which is an incredible story.

00:40:11.000 Um my mom calls me and she's like, she's been using for this long, and I go full hero mode.

00:40:19.000 I didn't even know what fentanyl was.

00:40:21.000 Really?

00:40:21.000 Yeah, I didn't.

00:40:23.000 This is right after True Detective.

00:40:25.000 I really wasn't exposed to it.

00:40:26.000 I knew heroin, of course.

00:40:28.000 So what is this like 12, 13 years ago?

00:40:29.000 How yeah, right in there.

00:40:31.000 Whenever the end of the You didn't know what Fentanyl was?

00:40:34.000 Oh wow.

00:40:34.000 I knew I knew like with the seals.

00:40:37.000 Um, they had fentanyl patches for the pain.

00:40:41.000 And then of course, like, but that's really all I fucking, if that, like, obviously, I educated myself on it after, and it's 20 to 25 times worse than heroin, it's a deathbed drug, put you to sleep.

00:40:41.000 Mm-hmm.

00:40:54.000 And um, so I got this call, and I'm like, I'll get her sober in two weeks, bring her down, like hero mode. 0.54

00:41:04.000 And she comes, and I had no idea what was going on.

00:41:08.000 And she had used right before she flew, and so she was in withdrawal.

00:41:15.000 Oh god.

00:41:15.000 Oh God is fucking right, man.

00:41:17.000 And your muscle contractions are so bad that I had this little one-bedroom apartment in Marina Del Rey, 15, like literally a hallway from here, about this long, actually.

00:41:30.000 And it's late.

00:41:31.000 And um, she's just pacing because she can't sit still because the muscle contractions are so bad.

00:41:37.000 And I'm like, Shells, just take it, go to bed, take my bed, and just try and sleep.

00:41:43.000 She's like, no, no, no, no.

00:41:44.000 You don't understand.

00:41:46.000 I have to move.

00:41:48.000 And so she tried sleeping, going laying down, muscle contractions are so bad, she fell off the bed, and uh, I'm like, okay, let's go for a walk.

00:41:57.000 Like, and the beauty of our relationship, and what I think was a huge factor in getting her clean was the transparency.

00:42:06.000 Like, you gotta fucking be real with me.

00:42:08.000 Tell me when you used, tell me how often, like everything.

00:42:12.000 And she did, which is so tough to hear.

00:42:15.000 Um, and so we ended up walking down Abbott Kinney at three in the morning, and no one's obviously out there, and we just did this crazy walk and talk, and I'll never forget it.

00:42:27.000 And uh, it's just heartbreaking.

00:42:29.000 And I get her and I call uh I'm like, I don't even know she needs to detox.

00:42:33.000 So I call the hospital, Marina Del Rey, and they're like, no, we don't take anybody that's using right now.

00:42:40.000 You they have to be detoxed, and we may be able to help them after.

00:42:44.000 So I'm like, okay, what the fuck is okay?

00:42:46.000 We got a detox.

00:42:49.000 And um, so I call this place, and they're like an hour away, and she's like, I have a bed for her, and bring her at 6 a.m.

00:42:59.000 I mean, got this little wrangler, a two-door wrangler, and she's in the back seat, my mom in the front, and she's like almost kicking the fucking glass out because the muscle contractions of my Jeep. 0.96

00:43:11.000 And I was like, holy like such a wake-up call that I had no idea it was this bad.

00:43:16.000 So reality's kind of setting in.

00:43:19.000 And um she kept asking for methadone. 0.65

00:43:22.000 I want methadone because she had detoxed before and methadone, and um, and so I go to this fucking house, and I knock on the door, and she's in the back seat, she's got her little backpack, and it's this fucking woman, like butchy in like presence. 1.00

00:43:42.000 She opens the door, she's like, just a matter of fact, where's your sis?

00:43:46.000 And I'm like, Oh, she's grabbing her bag.

00:43:47.000 She's like, Well, bring her here. 0.90

00:43:49.000 I'm like, okay.

00:43:50.000 Uh Shells, let's go. 1.00

00:43:51.000 She comes and Shell's like, I need doesn't say hi, nothing.

00:43:56.000 She's like, I need methadone.

00:43:58.000 And she goes, Well, when did you use blah blah blah and all this?

00:44:01.000 And she tells her, and she's like, Oh, you haven't even bottomed out yet.

00:44:04.000 We don't treat drugs with drugs here, honey.

00:44:07.000 You're gonna you're gonna have some Gatorade and some topical muscle relaxer and you're gonna sweat this out.

00:44:13.000 And she goes it's funny now, but Shelby goes to her knees, and she's like, I need methadone. 0.89

00:44:21.000 She goes, No, no, no.

00:44:22.000 What did I just say?

00:44:24.000 And she's like, You getting Gatorade, muscle relaxer, and you're gonna watch some movies, and you can smoke, no phone.

00:44:31.000 She was incredible.

00:44:33.000 Four and a half days later, she called me and she's like, Your sister's good.

00:44:36.000 Bring her to a sober living just by Venice High. 0.99

00:44:40.000 And it's 30,000, like when someone's fucking almost ready to go, you're I'll do anything, right?

00:44:48.000 And they know this.

00:44:49.000 And so it's 30,000 for the month.

00:44:53.000 And it's sober living, you'll have one session, which isn't enough, uh, because she has some trauma, and um uh with a psych.

00:45:03.000 And I was like one in 30 days, one every week.

00:45:06.000 Oh, and I was like, we need a lot more than one a week.

00:45:10.000 And um, so I draw and my sis was a runner, and uh, so do you sign this fucking contract, and it's like if she runs, if she leaves, if she does this, this, this, and that, you she's out.

00:45:23.000 We kick her out and we keep your money. 1.00

00:45:26.000 Two hours in, gone.

00:45:28.000 I get a call.

00:45:29.000 Yeah, I get a call from this LA number, and I'm like, no fucking way.

00:45:36.000 Okay, there's 30 grand gone.

00:45:38.000 I'm gonna find another one.

00:45:40.000 She went to the another one, a little better, cool.

00:45:43.000 Yeah, I got twice a week.

00:45:44.000 Two days later, she runs again.

00:45:46.000 So I'm down 65k in three days.

00:45:50.000 And I'm like bleeding cash, and then I figure out like another spot.

00:45:56.000 She stayed like 30 days, relapsed, and then um, yeah, she kept relapsing, and then uh multiple times, Narcanned up in Calabasas, there's a place, and she left, and uh this one girl,

00:46:12.000 she had uh night terrors, and um, so they would she had I would walk around Joe with this fucking uh ziploc bag of pills of like antidepressants for her night tears, sleeping pills, all these things to just take away this trauma for whatever beat it would be within her, right? 0.94

00:46:35.000 And there's an amazing doc up there, and South African guy that deals with women addicts and trauma, and uh she was there for a while, and that was really great, and she got a hold of these sleeping pills, and they're supposed to give you one every night, and the girl put the bottle up on the little half door, you know, those doors swinging doors, yeah.

00:47:02.000 And um, so she grabbed the bottle, and she was as a lot of these sober livings are they're pretty incestuous, and and the guys sleep with the girls, vice versa, obviously, and um she was dating a kid named Mike there, and so she went to that part of the house and said goodbye to Mike.

00:47:22.000 And to this kid's credit, um, he was like, That's a little weird.

00:47:28.000 You didn't say goodnight, you just said goodbye.

00:47:31.000 And so she goes up, hammers 60 something sleeping pills.

00:47:34.000 Oh, Jesus, yeah, and uh he goes and tells, he's like, Hey, this ain't right, you gotta go check on her.

00:47:41.000 So, long story short, call the ambulance, and the medic to his credit is like, go grab the fucking bottle and uh grabs a bottle and shows this medic, and he's like, We're pumping her stomach right now in the ambulance, and um what saved her life were their time release.

00:48:02.000 Isn't that fucking crazy?

00:48:04.000 Wow, yeah, wild.

00:48:06.000 So I got this call and I lost my mind for giving her uh the bottle.

00:48:11.000 Um but yeah, she at that point she kind of just fucking ran again, went to a drug house. 1.00

00:48:19.000 She hates using uh needles, so someone would shoot her up. 0.99

00:48:23.000 Yeah, so as you know, if you're fucking sober 92 days, whatever it was, if you use what you were using before, you're fucking gone.

00:48:34.000 Yeah, so they drop it's a fucking movie.

00:48:34.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:48:37.000 They dropped her off at the stupidest hospital, and she got an arcan. 0.99

00:48:41.000 I didn't know any of this part.

00:48:42.000 I didn't, I wasn't privy to this yet.

00:48:45.000 I'm just driving around looking for her.

00:48:47.000 And uh anyway, she's just to go back to that environment. 1.00

00:48:52.000 I'm like, I'm out of money, we gotta, I gotta send you back home to Vancouver.

00:48:57.000 And she's like, You put me to Vancouver, I'm gonna die.

00:49:00.000 And I'm like, well, it ain't working well here either.

00:49:03.000 And uh she was at a psych ward on 34th in Lamar.

00:49:08.000 Uh that was a fucked up story, but um for like 10 days. 0.68

00:49:12.000 Um, but anyway, she got she went to this place called the Westy House in New Westminster, just outside Vancouver, and it's a it was a woman's only, and she was there.

00:49:22.000 She ran there, and I got her back in and she got clean and hasn't looked back since.

00:49:27.000 She ran again.

00:49:28.000 I know, man.

00:49:30.000 Vancouver.

00:49:31.000 Phone calls must be rough.

00:49:33.000 Oh I was I didn't even know what Al Anon was and uh I was at 360 Bridge, there's a church just across 360 Bridge, and uh is at this Al Anon, and uh and I'm waiting.

00:49:48.000 I didn't shell's has been gone, so I'm waiting for the call of like okay, she's finally overdosed and gone.

00:49:56.000 And so I'm a mess, and I'm in Al Anon, just waiting for this call, and I'm judging everybody in this fucking Al-Anon.

00:50:05.000 Like, there's this woman across from me. 0.99

00:50:07.000 She's like, Yeah, my husband, he used and um yeah, I got Christmas with him, and I'm like, fuck, that's easy day.

00:50:16.000 I'm like, you don't even know what the fuck I'm dealing with over here, you know.

00:50:19.000 And then you hear another story, and you're like, that's bullshit.

00:50:22.000 You guys are pussies all in my head. 1.00

00:50:26.000 And uh, so I just listen, it does help or help me a lot, and I come out in this one guy, he's like, Hey, you're heavy.

00:50:36.000 You gotta you want to talk or anything, you didn't say a word in there, and and I'm like, right when he said that, my sis called, and she was downtown Vancouver, and she had just used and got scared straight.

00:50:49.000 Um guy had followed her and sexually abused a friend of hers in front of her, and she's like, I can't do this no more.

00:50:57.000 So she was scared straight, and she was that's what got her sober.

00:51:00.000 She got she was downtown Vancouver, called me and she's like, Can you get me back in Westy House?

00:51:06.000 And I call Susan was her name, and um call her back, and I'm throwing everything.

00:51:12.000 I'm like, I will fucking uh support you guys.

00:51:16.000 Can you give us a bed?

00:51:17.000 Can you get her one more time? 0.99

00:51:18.000 I know she's not allowed back, and all this, and she goes, I'll call you back.

00:51:22.000 And she got she got her bed and she was there nine months.

00:51:25.000 Wow.

00:51:26.000 Yeah.

00:51:27.000 Yeah.

00:51:27.000 So what what was it that finally kept her sober?

00:51:32.000 Does she say that's a fucking good question?

00:51:34.000 Jamie, can you tell uh Jeff to bring in the coffee?

00:51:38.000 Um that's a good question.

00:51:43.000 I know at times it was like she has we have nieces and nephews, and she wanted to get clean for them, but that didn't last.

00:51:52.000 I think it was that moment of getting scared straight, like you just can't keep doing this.

00:51:59.000 Um Rock bottom.

00:52:01.000 Yeah, I think that's what it is.

00:52:03.000 It's so subjective, right?

00:52:05.000 Yeah, we all know somebody that's like I stopped drinking yesterday, done.

00:52:10.000 Yeah, like my buddy over there, you just met.

00:52:13.000 It's just like he went for a few weeks and he hasn't had booze since, and it's like sometimes it just clicks and they're like, fuck this life, I don't want it anymore.

00:52:23.000 And some just can't break that habit.

00:52:26.000 But yeah, it varies so much.

00:52:28.000 Oh my god.

00:52:29.000 Thanks, Jeremy.

00:52:30.000 Um, she's a lot like me too.

00:52:33.000 Super I'll steal some.

00:52:35.000 Yeah, some dog.

00:52:36.000 Thanks, man.

00:52:37.000 Um yeah, it's it's a beautiful story.

00:52:41.000 It is well.

00:52:44.000 Yeah, but it it very well couldn't have.

00:52:44.000 Yeah.

00:52:46.000 I mean if that guy didn't say goodbye.

00:52:50.000 What is goodbye?

00:52:51.000 Why why goodbye?

00:52:52.000 What the fuck's going on?

00:52:53.000 Yeah, that one guy probably saved your sister's life.

00:52:55.000 And I want to fucking kill that guy, by the way.

00:52:58.000 Because he's he relapsed with her and used with her at that drug house.

00:53:02.000 Um I know, man.

00:53:05.000 So that like for me is a lot a big part of Howler's Ridge, and then with the vets, is we just chatted.

00:53:11.000 I love these guys and and the families, and uh, so hopefully we'll have you talk about Ibogain.

00:53:18.000 I know it we can't do that in Montana yet, hopefully, but I hope up there on Howler's Ridge, we can maybe in a year or two, we'll see what happens that we can do some of that up there.

00:53:30.000 Well, I think it's gonna be so effective in Texas that it's gonna spread.

00:53:34.000 And I think the fact that they're starting with uh veterans, yeah, because these guys don't get any support.

00:53:42.000 There's I know you think about what they have to go through when they go off to war with the things that they experience, and then they come back and they've lost friends and they've seen their buddies get blown up in front of them, and they're they just they're all fucked up, and then they're hooked on pills.

00:53:58.000 And the pills are just you can cookie monster a fucking jar if you want and they'll refill you like and there's different outlets like Virginia, Hawaii, Florida, doctors in each one that are sending you.

00:54:10.000 Yep.

00:54:11.000 And it's that's you literally at your doorstep, you're getting these jars of pills.

00:54:17.000 It's like you're giving and these guys obviously have addictive personalities.

00:54:21.000 That's what makes them so fucking great.

00:54:23.000 Yeah.

00:54:24.000 That's one thing.

00:54:25.000 That's a weird thing, right?

00:54:26.000 The the addictive tendency can actually make you great at something.

00:54:30.000 Yeah.

00:54:31.000 Well, beautiful, right?

00:54:33.000 Yeah, I mean if you use it.

00:54:34.000 If you harness it, but it can go sideways on you.

00:54:37.000 Which is really weird.

00:54:39.000 It is.

00:54:40.000 That's one thing, and it's funny because uh not that I'm cocky or was cocky with Dark Wolf, but I had played this guy already before, and I lose my trident in it, and Mendoza's kind of getting the parade rest ready and the whole ceremony ready for it, and he's just a brother of mine, and it was a big moment that I learned because these workups, say you work up on a Thursday, and you go at 2 a.m. to 7 a.m.

00:55:10.000 And you go take a couple guys out and you come back, whatever, celebrate, probably get have a few drinks, and then you have another work up on Tuesday.

00:55:20.000 But let's say you and I go in the fight, and I die on that Thursday op.

00:55:27.000 You're back in work up Tuesday morning.

00:55:30.000 So this is one thing that really kind of punched me when I was talking to Mendoza because he was talking about some stories where he lost somebody, and I was like, There's literally no fucking time to mourn.

00:55:42.000 There's no time to register the loss of this.

00:55:45.000 So you're just harnessing this pain and this all these emotions.

00:55:49.000 Yeah, and you're just like, okay, I guess I'm back in the fight, and I'm gonna do this for at least another few months before I'm out on my six-month uh tour.

00:55:59.000 And that really kind of knocked me out, and that set me free to play this guy a lot more like just knee jerk emotion and way more of a live wire because it's like who the we talk about how subjective mourning is, you know, it's like everyone mourns differently.

00:56:18.000 Yeah.

00:56:19.000 So it's like I just made that choice with uh Ben of just like this guy's just a fucking mess.

00:56:24.000 And let him just emotionally make these decisions then.

00:56:28.000 And that's where I took them.

00:56:30.000 And did you have conversations with uh other vets that were addicts and that were fucked up from war and just had all sorts of different kinds of ways of dealing with trauma and all the time, yeah, all the time.

00:56:43.000 It's so common.

00:56:44.000 It really is.

00:56:45.000 It's insanely common.

00:56:46.000 Yeah.

00:56:47.000 It only makes sense.

00:56:48.000 It would be crazy if it wasn't common.

00:56:49.000 I know, yeah, you're saying what you're asking them to do.

00:56:52.000 I know.

00:56:52.000 And we don't know the half of it.

00:56:54.000 No, we really don't.

00:56:55.000 We don't know any of it.

00:56:56.000 We did we don't experience if you don't physically experience it, you're just making things up.

00:57:00.000 You know?

00:57:00.000 Yeah.

00:57:01.000 Yeah.

00:57:02.000 And I mean I think uh obviously with Red Wings and and stuff like that with loan, but then you talk to these guys in between takes and they're pretty transparent, which is beautiful that they're talking about it and all this, but it's like, where are they putting this fucking energy after they're out?

00:57:20.000 Like they gotta find another purpose that's so fucking heightened when you're serving.

00:57:25.000 There's no bigger purpose.

00:57:27.000 You're fucking killing bad guys.

00:57:29.000 Yeah.

00:57:30.000 Like that's incredible with your brothers right next to you.

00:57:33.000 Like that's a heavy fucking thing to carry.

00:57:36.000 And then when they come out, now what?

00:57:38.000 Right.

00:57:39.000 I'm gonna go walk fucking Walmart and just be a dad, and that's just a whole nother life.

00:57:46.000 That's one of the things I really loved about Hurt Locker.

00:57:48.000 Yeah, fuck me.

00:57:50.000 It was such a good movie.

00:57:51.000 Yeah, and it was so good the way he explained or or the way it played out, how this guy just could not go back to normal.

00:58:01.000 Like it it just wasn't working.

00:58:02.000 He he didn't give a fuck.

00:58:04.000 He'd rather be back out there.

00:58:05.000 Yeah.

00:58:06.000 Downright.

00:58:06.000 I mean, you look at Marcus too, after Red Wings, he went back to Ramadi.

00:58:10.000 Yeah, which is wanted to die with his boots on.

00:58:13.000 I mean, these guys are fucking this is kind of the UFC, right?

00:58:17.000 Of like these guys are modern day fucking gladiators, warriors.

00:58:22.000 And I I know they're not in the front lines or downrange, but it's like you you got a guy like Marcus or the Mendoza or these guys that are just truly born warriors.

00:58:32.000 Yeah, There's just a they are a different breed. 1.00

00:58:34.000 Well, that's why they get it through buds, too.

00:58:36.000 Yeah.

00:58:37.000 You gotta be a different kind of human.

00:58:38.000 Yeah.

00:58:39.000 Yeah.

00:58:39.000 More mental than physical.

00:58:41.000 Yeah.

00:58:42.000 I mean, Mendoza was running buds too, and he would say a lot of times you look at these fucking scrawny guys.

00:58:48.000 Yeah.

00:58:49.000 Those are the ones that make it.

00:58:50.000 And then you got the D1 athletes that haven't had or gone through a whole lot because they're gifted athletically.

00:58:56.000 Up here though, they're not as strong.

00:58:58.000 And that fucking scrawny guy over there is bringing that D1 athlete with them.

00:59:03.000 Yeah.

00:59:04.000 Those stories that's kind of the case with fighters too sometimes.

00:59:04.000 Yeah.

00:59:07.000 Sometimes it's the guys that aren't talented that wind up being champions, they're tougher and they work harder.

00:59:13.000 Because they don't have it given to them easily.

00:59:13.000 Yeah.

00:59:16.000 You know, they can't half ass in the gym. 1.00

00:59:18.000 They have to be all in.

00:59:20.000 Yeah.

00:59:21.000 It's the life.

00:59:21.000 Yeah.

00:59:22.000 Yeah.

00:59:22.000 It's the sacrifice.

00:59:23.000 What are you willing to do?

00:59:25.000 And you you, you know, you have to be all in in that job.

00:59:29.000 Both jobs.

00:59:29.000 Yeah.

00:59:30.000 And comfort can kill you.

00:59:32.000 Oh, yeah.

00:59:33.000 In everybody's life.

00:59:35.000 Yeah.

00:59:35.000 I hate it.

00:59:36.000 I know.

00:59:37.000 I know.

00:59:38.000 I know, man.

00:59:38.000 I hate it.

00:59:39.000 I would have thought that one day that I'd be wealthy and that I'd be just fucking chilling and going to the beach.

00:59:44.000 Like, no, now you're going to college every morning.

00:59:47.000 And yeah, no, I I fucking hate it.

00:59:50.000 I think it's the enemy.

00:59:51.000 It really is.

00:59:52.000 It's the enemy of happiness.

00:59:53.000 Yeah.

00:59:53.000 Really?

00:59:54.000 Even like me with acting, it's like I live for it.

00:59:59.000 I love it.

01:00:00.000 And I honestly do believe I've just worked my way through stubbornly.

01:00:04.000 Like I'll just outwork people.

01:00:05.000 It's not like I was gifted this talent or it truly isn't.

01:00:10.000 I'll just outwork people.

01:00:12.000 And then now it's like 44 now, which is crazy.

01:00:15.000 And um now I'm starting to be like, okay, you're thinking about kids, you're thinking about I need a little more balance.

01:00:25.000 But then I start this balance, and it scares the fuck out of me, and I don't like it.

01:00:31.000 How does it scare you?

01:00:32.000 Just it's the comfort, right?

01:00:34.000 It's like, oh kits, don't take this.

01:00:36.000 Just go keep fly fishing, keep you know, just go on a motorcycle trip, go which is great, and I'll still do it, but I'm just so conscious of it of like don't get fucking comfortable.

01:00:46.000 Don't think, don't rest on your work, you know.

01:00:50.000 Comfort's not bad if you earn it.

01:00:52.000 Right.

01:00:52.000 But you gotta earn the fuck out of it.

01:00:55.000 Where like when you're sitting on that couch, you know that you actually need to recover.

01:01:00.000 Like if you're gonna keep going, you need to recover.

01:01:02.000 So like watching South Park is probably good for you.

01:01:05.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:01:06.000 Actually, like medicine.

01:01:07.000 Yeah, yeah, you know, just fucking let me just zone out and there is that.

01:01:12.000 I think I don't know.

01:01:13.000 Do you have that with the the fear of failure still of just like of it all falling apart?

01:01:19.000 That and like I'm on set in two weeks and I'm fucking scared.

01:01:24.000 Yeah.

01:01:25.000 And it's a heavy roll, shit ton of dialogue.

01:01:28.000 I think that's because you're doing the right thing.

01:01:30.000 It's because it's what you're supposed to be doing.

01:01:33.000 But I can't sit on that fucking couch because I'm like, what the fuck are you doing, kids?

01:01:38.000 Well, now you can't sit on the couch because it's getting ready to be go time.

01:01:41.000 Yeah, but that's why you you're doing what you do.

01:01:44.000 I mean, you you have to be a little scared of what you do.

01:01:48.000 You have to be.

01:01:49.000 Like Monday I'm going elk hunting.

01:01:49.000 Yeah.

01:01:51.000 Yeah, kind of freaking out.

01:01:53.000 Which I always do.

01:01:54.000 Because it's hard.

01:01:55.000 It's I got in shape.

01:01:55.000 Yeah, it is.

01:01:56.000 I got like uh did a lot of cardio, a lot of leg workouts, because you go on, you're huffing it up those mountains.

01:02:01.000 I've I shot three hours of arrows today.

01:02:04.000 Fuck.

01:02:05.000 Three fucking arrows.

01:02:06.000 I'm pulling three hours I'm pulling back an 80-pound bow.

01:02:09.000 No joke.

01:02:10.000 Yeah, it's it's a lot of work, man.

01:02:11.000 I work hard, but it's because when it's there, you want to be prepared.

01:02:17.000 So leading up to it, I get like fucking super serious.

01:02:20.000 I get like really like where it's it's with me all day long.

01:02:24.000 It's with me while I'm marching my team.

01:02:25.000 I know it.

01:02:26.000 With me when I'm putting in my underwear with me, when I'm sitting in the cold plunge, I'm thinking about the mountains.

01:02:30.000 Because it's a hard thing to do, and that's why I do it because I love it, and but it's also because it's a hard thing to do.

01:02:36.000 And when you're getting ready to do like a role that's like a fucking intense role, the nerves are a good thing.

01:02:41.000 They're your friends.

01:02:42.000 Yeah, that feels like truly keeps you on it.

01:02:45.000 Yeah, you can't eat like that's that's your friend.

01:02:47.000 Or you're looking through my girlfriend.

01:02:50.000 Yeah, you barely listen to it.

01:02:51.000 Running lines, yep, yep, yeah.

01:02:53.000 Fucking what if I do this in this scene?

01:02:54.000 Uh-huh.

01:02:55.000 But they want to talk about Taylor Swift's engagement, Rick.

01:02:59.000 Like, I can't.

01:03:01.000 I can't hear.

01:03:01.000 Yeah.

01:03:02.000 And then you're an asshole.

01:03:03.000 Like, what did you say?

01:03:03.000 Right.

01:03:05.000 You're not listening.

01:03:06.000 I just spaced out for a second.

01:03:06.000 I was.

01:03:06.000 I was listening.

01:03:08.000 I'm sorry.

01:03:08.000 Yeah.

01:03:09.000 And then you go back to being spaced out after apologizing.

01:03:14.000 Or I'll just literally be like, I'm going on a bike ride.

01:03:17.000 And I'm gone for two, three hours, and then I'm running shit in my head, or it's so true.

01:03:23.000 But it's the same.

01:03:24.000 I equate it to like when we're rolling.

01:03:26.000 It's like you ain't hiding no more, kids.

01:03:29.000 You fucking, you're in it.

01:03:30.000 It's the same thing.

01:03:31.000 Once you get exposed to that elk, it's like this is your fucking moment.

01:03:35.000 Yeah, you're in We're gonna see if you did the work.

01:03:37.000 Yeah.

01:03:38.000 100%.

01:03:39.000 I think people all everyone needs something like that.

01:03:39.000 Yeah.

01:03:42.000 But it scares people, so they shy away from it.

01:03:44.000 And they look towards something that's guaranteed.

01:03:47.000 You get a guaranteed paycheck.

01:03:49.000 It's easy, it's simple, but that's the that's that's your enemy.

01:03:53.000 Yeah.

01:03:53.000 That's how it that's how your life becomes this just dull shade of gray.

01:03:58.000 Yeah.

01:03:59.000 I know.

01:04:00.000 Yeah, not good.

01:04:01.000 You're very fortunate.

01:04:02.000 You're very fortunate.

01:04:03.000 You've been able to do what you love, and that what you love is you know, it's it's very exciting.

01:04:10.000 Yeah.

01:04:10.000 Like, and it's very exciting to other people.

01:04:12.000 It's very rewarding.

01:04:13.000 Like I do, I fucking loved you in American primeval.

01:04:16.000 Oh, thanks.

01:04:17.000 That role.

01:04:18.000 That was my gladiator.

01:04:20.000 That was intense.

01:04:21.000 That one scene where you're getting changed where and you see all the fucking cuts all over your body. 0.91

01:04:26.000 Yeah.

01:04:26.000 You like like, whoa.

01:04:28.000 Like it just That scene, I lost a bunch of weight for it.

01:04:33.000 Um, and then uh Howard Berger did my makeup for that, and he's fucking incredible.

01:04:38.000 And uh that scene, man.

01:04:41.000 Um That's he meant a lot because it's it's everything.

01:04:44.000 You saw that that guy is raw naked with his Shoshone brother and with startup with the covered in scars, and then goes into that uh teepee with the chief, the m the mother of his wife that he lost. 0.70

01:04:59.000 And I wrote that scene, man.

01:05:00.000 Whoa.

01:05:01.000 Yeah.

01:05:02.000 And so Pete Pete and I came up with its only pain, and then I I broke my foot and got a fucking bone cut out of it on this that show.

01:05:12.000 And you know the scene where bone cut out of it?

01:05:14.000 Yeah.

01:05:15.000 Why they cut a bone out?

01:05:16.000 So there's a scene where I go down to get horses, and I kill five or six guys at this skinning camp, and I think it's episode two, and Betty Gilpin, who's amazing, comes down and she's like, didn't trust me, and she comes down, I have to kill these guys. 1.00

01:05:32.000 During that sequence, uh, I broke this my foot and they call cut, and I go to uh Dashenaw, the stunt coordinator, and um I'm like, Oh, it's broken.

01:05:44.000 And he's like, I've worked with him for 15 years, and he's like, Don't fuck with me.

01:05:49.000 And I'm like, no, dash, it's broken.

01:05:52.000 I got the shooting pain in my groin, and he's like, get the fuck out of here.

01:05:57.000 And I'm like, yeah.

01:05:58.000 So finish the scene, and they they spray fucking biofreeze on my foot, and I'm like, guys, it's broken.

01:06:06.000 Like, I'm fucked.

01:06:08.000 And so I go to Bozeman, and he's like, it's this small bone right on the side of your foot right there that goes up and down right here.

01:06:16.000 Next to your toe?

01:06:17.000 Uh connecting my big toe.

01:06:19.000 It's on the side bone on my big toe.

01:06:22.000 Uh-huh.

01:06:22.000 And uh, so he's like, Oh, you can wear a boot.

01:06:26.000 It's a small bone, so you won't need to, it'll heal itself.

01:06:29.000 So I go back and I'm in a boot doing this fucking show, and I got a six foot six uh Wrangler.

01:06:37.000 So when I get off that horse 90% of the time, I think his name's BJ.

01:06:42.000 Great dude, big cowboy.

01:06:44.000 Um, and he's below me off camera, taking my weight because I can't step off the horse because I'm in a fucking boot.

01:06:53.000 Medical boot.

01:06:54.000 Yeah.

01:06:55.000 And then uh six weeks goes by or a month, and I go back to Bozeman, take my boot off, and uh he does one last x-ray, and he's like, You need to be in surgery today.

01:07:05.000 Oh no.

01:07:06.000 That's what I said.

01:07:07.000 That's a shitty call to Netflix and Pete, and um so I got surgery, and then right before surgery, um he's like, We can pin it, but you're gonna be super active, and it may not take, or I can cut it out and put bone wax on it.

01:07:26.000 Bone wax.

01:07:27.000 Yeah, didn't know there was a thing that's bone wax.

01:07:29.000 I don't know either.

01:07:33.000 So you just said cut it?

01:07:34.000 Yeah, because you wanted to go back to work.

01:07:36.000 Yeah.

01:07:36.000 So they cut a chunk of bone off.

01:07:38.000 And then what is bone wax?

01:07:40.000 I think it just is a protective coating over it.

01:07:43.000 Ooh, look at this.

01:07:44.000 Commonly supplied and sterile sticks usually require softening before it can be applied.

01:07:48.000 It's generally made of beeswax.

01:07:50.000 Softening agent uses paraffin or petroleum jelly, and it's smeared across the bleeding edge of the bone, blocking the holes and causing immediate bone hemostasis.

01:08:02.000 Still don't know what it means.

01:08:04.000 I don't know what this means is a tamponade tamponade effect.

01:08:13.000 You know, tampon on your foot, bro.

01:08:15.000 Wow, that's crazy.

01:08:15.000 Yeah, I do.

01:08:17.000 Oh god.

01:08:18.000 So does your foot fuck with you now?

01:08:20.000 Yeah.

01:08:20.000 It's uh if I'm fly fishing or on uneven ground, it's or if I'm doing, you know, if I'm tracking or doing something uh side healing, which I fucking hate.

01:08:30.000 Right.

01:08:31.000 Side hill hiking, I hate it.

01:08:33.000 I have a terrible knee as well.

01:08:35.000 That's where it bites.

01:08:37.000 Yeah.

01:08:38.000 And then um, yeah, so I d dealt with that.

01:08:38.000 Yeah.

01:08:42.000 We had to I had to be on the couch for six weeks, but my first day back was those two scenes, and I had called Pete, and I'm like, hey, I wrote this scene.

01:08:51.000 I'd love because that scene was exposition with my mom at first.

01:08:55.000 We were talking about Red Feather and stuff, and uh I'm like, this is my first day back after losing them that I haven't seen her since I've lost her daughter and her grandson.

01:09:07.000 So this guy can't get through anything.

01:09:10.000 Uh so that was the crutch, and thank you for noticing.

01:09:12.000 That's the crutch of that whole arc to that guy.

01:09:15.000 Yeah, it was an intense scene because he it was so realistic.

01:09:18.000 Yeah, like what that's what a guy would look like.

01:09:20.000 Like I I hate when you see someone who looks like they've been living an easy life.

01:09:24.000 Yeah, and they take their shirt off and they're supposed to be like in some rugged outdoor environment.

01:09:28.000 They just look soft.

01:09:30.000 Or he's stacked and looks incredible.

01:09:30.000 Yeah.

01:09:33.000 Nice like he's being in the gym, yeah, eating creatine.

01:09:36.000 No, you you look like a hard man, like a hard man who's been through some fucking hand to hand combat.

01:09:42.000 Yeah, it looked very realistic.

01:09:43.000 Yeah.

01:09:44.000 Do you have to starve yourself for that?

01:09:46.000 How much did you have to lose?

01:09:46.000 Yeah.

01:09:48.000 Just to get out of here.

01:09:49.000 I had time looking.

01:09:50.000 I had time, which was great.

01:09:52.000 Um I lost 30 for that.

01:09:55.000 Whoa.

01:09:55.000 Yeah.

01:09:56.000 That's a lot of weight.

01:09:56.000 Yeah.

01:09:57.000 But I had done it, I did this one film called the Bang Bang Club here.

01:10:01.000 I was just living off Lamar here.

01:10:04.000 And um I play this drug addicted uh true story about these war photographers right before the during the apartheid, right before the first free election, Mandela's election.

01:10:15.000 Kevin Carter's his name, he won a Pulitzer uh for this epic shot that he took.

01:10:20.000 Um got a lot of uh flack for it, and ended up taking his own life.

01:10:24.000 Um but that I had 30 days to prep, and I lost 35 in 30 days.

01:10:30.000 Whoa.

01:10:31.000 And I remember going just over I 35 here to this dock, and my heart rate was fucking low 20s.

01:10:38.000 Oh god.

01:10:38.000 Because all I was doing was running coffee, and I would uh the broth can be super salty, sodium heavy.

01:10:47.000 So I'd filter that and then just have broth and broccoli for dinner.

01:10:51.000 Oh my god, you're just starving yourself.

01:10:53.000 Yeah, it was bad.

01:10:54.000 And then I got a thyroid problem from that.

01:10:56.000 And uh that doc, that doc was like um, hey, you're gonna fail this uh physical, just so you know, and I'm like, what do I gotta do?

01:11:07.000 I'm going to Africa next week.

01:11:09.000 And he's like, do some push-ups.

01:11:11.000 So I did push-ups and got my heart rate into the low 40s, and he's like, okay.

01:11:16.000 Wow, but I know.

01:11:17.000 That's crazy.

01:11:19.000 That's I was hurting.

01:11:22.000 Yeah.

01:11:23.000 That's nuts, dude.

01:11:24.000 And then I was hurting, they would shoot me out on Bang Bang Club, like just shoot your coverage and go.

01:11:30.000 Go back to bed.

01:11:32.000 And uh then I ended up getting a nutritionist there, and uh, she helped me a little bit, but that was a quick shoot, but um, that's where I think I fucked my body on that one.

01:11:43.000 Wow.

01:11:43.000 And then Koresh again lost weight for that.

01:11:46.000 That was great, by the way.

01:11:47.000 Thanks.

01:11:48.000 That fucking whole correction is so crazy.

01:11:50.000 I know, man.

01:11:51.000 What is it like doing that movie?

01:11:53.000 Because it's another real life.

01:11:55.000 Yeah.

01:11:56.000 That was I was just prepping right there too.

01:11:59.000 Um That was almost too long a prep.

01:12:03.000 Here's me saying I love prep, but I had six months to get into that head space, and it just the last month I tried to pull out of the show.

01:12:12.000 Yeah, because I was just this is I was just you're holding hoarding all this energy, and you I lost the weight, learning to play guitar and sing, which was a fucking comedy.

01:12:12.000 Really?

01:12:24.000 Um I'm fucking terrible.

01:12:26.000 He was terrible too, though.

01:12:27.000 Yeah.

01:12:28.000 That literally helped me.

01:12:30.000 I would listen to Dave and I'd be like, wow.

01:12:36.000 No idea how he got people to follow him with that fucking terrible thing.

01:12:41.000 If I was in that call, I'd go, yo, this we gotta re-evaluate.

01:12:44.000 This guy is not Christ.

01:12:46.000 He is not the leader.

01:12:47.000 He's actually kind of fucking terrible, right?

01:12:49.000 Should we leave?

01:12:50.000 His fucking music sucks.

01:12:55.000 It's just what is it like getting in the head space of someone who's that depraved, too.

01:13:01.000 And and who has that kind of like sick control over people.

01:13:07.000 Why?

01:13:08.000 Figure out the why.

01:13:09.000 Did you figure it out?

01:13:10.000 Yeah, I think so.

01:13:11.000 Yeah.

01:13:12.000 Um, go to his childhood, which was fucking terrible.

01:13:16.000 Of course.

01:13:17.000 Um, like you don't become a cult leader of everything's awesome when you're a kid.

01:13:21.000 Two great healthy parents.

01:13:24.000 Always giving you hugs, siblings.

01:13:27.000 And you decide to be a cult leader.

01:13:28.000 No.

01:13:29.000 He memorized the Bible by 15.

01:13:29.000 Yeah.

01:13:32.000 Whoa.

01:13:32.000 Which is fucking Hudson Township.

01:13:34.000 That says enough right there.

01:13:35.000 Huts and tense.

01:13:36.000 But he was like tied to a radiator on his birthday, like abused pretty hard.

01:13:41.000 And um I almost bought his car.

01:13:44.000 Oh my god.

01:13:45.000 I tried to pull the trigger on his car.

01:13:47.000 He had a 1968 Camaro, and uh a buddy of mine texted me and said, Yo, the uh David Crush's car for sale, and he knows I'm a car head, and I'm like, I love cars, especially old muscle cars.

01:13:57.000 I got a bunch of them.

01:13:57.000 Yeah.

01:13:58.000 And I have a 69 Camaro.

01:14:00.000 And I was thinking about at the time I didn't have any Camaros, but I was thinking about getting like 68 or 69 or 67.

01:14:06.000 I like the 69s a little more, a little wide body.

01:14:09.000 But uh then I found out it was Koresh's car. 0.88

01:14:11.000 I was like, whoa, that would be wild to drive to the comedy store and David Koresh's Mustang.

01:14:17.000 In Texas.

01:14:17.000 Or he's David Crush's Camaro, rather.

01:14:19.000 But then I thought about it, I said, you know what?

01:14:21.000 I don't want it.

01:14:22.000 I don't want anything from that guy.

01:14:24.000 I don't want that.

01:14:25.000 It's a mojo.

01:14:26.000 I don't want I don't want to hold his steering wheel.

01:14:29.000 I don't want to sit in his seat.

01:14:29.000 No.

01:14:31.000 No.

01:14:31.000 I don't want it.

01:14:32.000 I don't want it.

01:14:32.000 Also, what a piece of shit.

01:14:34.000 That guy's a preacher.

01:14:35.000 He's driving around in a muscle car, like for sure, right there and then.

01:14:38.000 Terrible season muscle car.

01:14:40.000 Ego.

01:14:41.000 Little bit of an ego.

01:14:43.000 I mean, not that you can't enjoy I love them.

01:14:46.000 I think they're one of the greatest accomplishments of American engineering in terms of like a piece of functional artwork.

01:14:51.000 Yeah.

01:14:52.000 American muscle cars.

01:14:53.000 I love them.

01:14:54.000 I'm that way with moto motorcycles too.

01:14:56.000 And I got to set, we shot actually in uh Waco wanted nothing to do with us.

01:15:01.000 So yeah.

01:15:03.000 Rightfully so.

01:15:04.000 So we shot that in Santa Fe.

01:15:06.000 Like to change that.

01:15:09.000 And uh Waco's a great town, by the way.

01:15:11.000 Yeah, it's great.

01:15:12.000 It's grown like enormously too.

01:15:14.000 Um but um yeah, his motorcycle came for sale, and obviously they knew we were making it.

01:15:22.000 I kicked tires on it, and uh they wanted just it was probably worth two grand, they wanted 15 or something, and it was just like go fuck yourself.

01:15:30.000 Right, they were just honestly like you just said, what am I gonna do with his moto?

01:15:34.000 Yeah, I thought it was I was I thought it was silly at first, and then after a while I'll be like, I can't do this.

01:15:40.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:15:41.000 I when before we opened up the comedy mothership in town, I was under contract for this place called the One World Theater that was also owned by a cult.

01:15:49.000 No way.

01:15:49.000 Yeah.

01:15:50.000 Yeah, the one world theater, you know where it is?

01:15:51.000 It's on B Cave.

01:15:53.000 Well, this is what's fucked up about the story.

01:15:56.000 Ron White performed there once because they have concerts there.

01:15:59.000 And Ron White did stand-up, and we were talking about opening up a club, and he said, You should buy that place down on B Cave, it's the fucking shit, it's beautiful theater, I think it's for sale.

01:16:08.000 I played there once, it's amazing.

01:16:10.000 I was like, all right, well, Ron White's the fucking man.

01:16:12.000 If he tells me, I'll go check it out.

01:16:13.000 And I check it out, and I'm like, yeah, we could do this.

01:16:16.000 Let's do it.

01:16:16.000 And so sign the contracts, all that, and then I get a call from my friend Adam, he goes, Hey, did you ever watch the documentary on that cult?

01:16:22.000 I'm like, oh no.

01:16:24.000 There's a documentary.

01:16:26.000 The documentary is called Holy Hell, and it's about a guy who is a gay porn star and a hypnotist that was a yoga instructor. 0.66

01:16:33.000 Oh my god, checking every book.

01:16:35.000 So it's yoga instructor in Hollywood, and then the cult in Waco gets taken down.

01:16:35.000 Yep.

01:16:42.000 And then he is on the run now because now the cult awareness network starts going after all these cults after Waco.

01:16:47.000 They like, hey, you know, people's children are getting kidnapped essentially by these fucking maniacs, and you know, winds up being like Waco, we've got to stop these cults.

01:16:56.000 And so he moves to Austin and changes his name.

01:17:00.000 And uh has a the you know, this is the 90s, you could get away with changing your name.

01:17:06.000 Yeah, nobody no internet.

01:17:07.000 And so this guy has his followers build him this theater so he can dance in front of them.

01:17:13.000 The documentary is bananas.

01:17:16.000 And I see the documentary, I'm like, oh my god, I gotta get out of this.

01:17:19.000 After I see the documentary, I'm like, I gotta get out of this deal.

01:17:21.000 I gotta get out.

01:17:22.000 And fortunately, there was a problem.

01:17:25.000 Fortunately, there was a problem, because you know, you got a bunch of cult members building the place, they're not gonna do it to code.

01:17:30.000 No.

01:17:31.000 And so it was just like his residence.

01:17:33.000 Yeah, there was a lot of shit that was wrong, a lot of wacky shit.

01:17:36.000 They didn't want to pay for it.

01:17:37.000 I'm like, let's just cost me a little bit of money, and I got out of it, and then we eventually got the writs on on Sixth Street, and that's the perfect spot anyway.

01:17:45.000 But uh it was the thing of being in that building, yeah, knowing what happened.

01:17:50.000 I'm like, I can't handle this.

01:17:53.000 Different energy.

01:17:56.000 Wasted their life with this asshole for 20 fucking years, and there was a bunch of them crying at the end of the documentary.

01:18:04.000 Like, I I lost my life, my life is meaningless now.

01:18:07.000 I thought I was gonna be with them forever, and I'm a dog walker.

01:18:10.000 I'm like, oh my god.

01:18:12.000 I can't carry that in this club.

01:18:12.000 I know.

01:18:14.000 I can't feel it.

01:18:15.000 I'd have to tear the building.

01:18:18.000 I just thought it'd be silly.

01:18:20.000 Yeah, oh, building built by a cult, perfect, we'll take it.

01:18:23.000 But the reality is every cult winds up being the same thing.

01:18:26.000 The guy wants all the money and he wants to fuck everybody.

01:18:29.000 It's uh almost every one of them has the same profile.

01:18:32.000 And fear-based.

01:18:34.000 Always.

01:18:35.000 Always fear-based, always everybody else is the enemy.

01:18:35.000 Always.

01:18:38.000 I'm the solution.

01:18:39.000 The nutty thing about this guy, though, is that he would do this thing to these people called the knowing, and you had to earn it.

01:18:47.000 And when you earned it, it was this very special ceremonious moment, and he would put his hands on their head and he would do something to them, and these people would feel God.

01:18:57.000 They would experience God.

01:18:58.000 And I know that it has to be some sort of a placebo effect or psycho somatic, some something where your brain triggers this energy.

01:19:07.000 But all these people that called him a fraud, that fucking hated him, I wasted my life.

01:19:11.000 They all talked about that moment like it was the greatest moment of their life still.

01:19:17.000 They're like, I gained a connection to God and to the universe that to this day was the most profound and loving moment of my life.

01:19:26.000 It's like, yeah, the guy was a total piece of shit.

01:19:29.000 Scam artist, con man, liar, everything was wrong.

01:19:34.000 Yet he was still capable of doing that thing to them.

01:19:38.000 So condition them.

01:19:40.000 Over years.

01:19:41.000 Well, he had them thinking about the moment that it was gonna come one day, and then he would take it away from them, and then and then one person would get it, and they would all sit around and watch, and they're like, when am I gonna get it?

01:19:52.000 But when they got it, they would all be like, it's because we know that the brain produces psychedelic chemicals, and I guess you can trick it, which is I think what a near-death experience is.

01:20:05.000 I think a near-death experience, your body your body's like, hey, it's over, flood the gates.

01:20:09.000 Yeah, and then it rolls through, and then you, you know, you go down the the tunnel and light and all the jazz, and you meet dead people.

01:20:16.000 Yeah.

01:20:17.000 But this is I think this is possible with everybody.

01:20:21.000 You just have to achieve the right state of mind.

01:20:23.000 I know people in Kundalini yoga, the people that are like heavy into it can fucking completely trip balls.

01:20:29.000 Really?

01:20:30.000 I had a buddy of mine who had done DMT.

01:20:32.000 Oh, yeah.

01:20:33.000 And then he really done DMT a couple times, so he knew what the experience was, and then he really got into Kundalini yoga, and he was doing it for like six months, and then what is Kundalini yoga?

01:20:42.000 It's a very specific kind of yoga that involves like deep breath work and there's a lot of like head bobbing, it's very strange, but it's you achieve a DMT-like state.

01:20:53.000 He's like, you achieve a full-on psychedelic experience doing kundalini.

01:20:57.000 And I was like, whoa.

01:20:58.000 And I've always thought about like trying it, practicing it.

01:21:01.000 I'm like, eh.

01:21:02.000 I don't have the time.

01:21:02.000 Yeah.

01:21:03.000 I don't know the time.

01:21:06.000 I'm too busy.

01:21:07.000 I can't think about some new thing to be obsessed with.

01:21:09.000 But but it's my point is that there is some little trigger in your brain that if you can trick your brain into snapping over to on, it just I believe that part.

01:21:22.000 This fucking cult guy did it to those people.

01:21:24.000 As much as they hated him as much as they knew he was a fraud, he fucked everybody.

01:21:28.000 Yeah.

01:21:28.000 The crazy thing is like they didn't know that everybody was getting fucked.

01:21:32.000 And so like one guy leaves the cult and he sends out this group email, like, hey, this guy's been hypnotizing me and fucking me for like ten years.

01:21:40.000 And they're all like I thought it was only me.

01:21:43.000 And then it became crazy where everybody had a story.

01:21:45.000 Oh everybody had a story.

01:21:47.000 He would charge them money for these experiences, and then you'd fucking of course.

01:21:52.000 Jesus.

01:21:53.000 Hilarious.

01:21:54.000 But terrible.

01:21:55.000 Yeah.

01:21:55.000 And so I didn't want that building.

01:21:58.000 So I didn't want Kuresh's car.

01:22:01.000 Let me look at that contract again.

01:22:03.000 Uh no.

01:22:04.000 So when you were getting close and you wanted to pull out, was it just the heaviness of carrying around this guy's weight?

01:22:08.000 Yeah.

01:22:09.000 And then I called my manager, Steph, and she's like, give it a day.

01:22:09.000 Yeah.

01:22:18.000 And then the Dowdle brothers who wrote and directed, terrific guys.

01:22:23.000 And um, I called John, and I think one thing that set me free probably on month three, because I was really stuck on everything we've just said of like how why am I playing some guy that's pretty fucking reprehensible in a lot of ways.

01:22:38.000 But a real person.

01:22:39.000 Who did real damage to people.

01:22:39.000 Yeah.

01:22:42.000 But I was judging him.

01:22:44.000 And that was like really a big block for me because I couldn't understand him more.

01:22:50.000 And so once I started to not cast judgment or my own judgment on him and just try and understand and root him.

01:22:58.000 Then I was like, okay, I'm gonna fly now.

01:23:01.000 Of like this is his childhood, this is why he's doing this.

01:23:05.000 And so it's your guys' job can judge away and do all this, but for me to play this guy, I can't bring that to him.

01:23:12.000 Right, right, right.

01:23:13.000 Yeah.

01:23:14.000 So that helps.

01:23:16.000 Yeah.

01:23:17.000 I gotta do it and try and root that.

01:23:19.000 When you got done with the role, was it like a thing that you had to cast off yourself?

01:23:23.000 Like Bang Bang Club fucked me.

01:23:26.000 I was hurting pretty bad after I didn't know my process very well.

01:23:30.000 And uh, you know, um Kevin Carter was just really, really troubled.

01:23:36.000 And he I think it was Mandrax, which is an animal tranquilizer that he would take.

01:23:41.000 Oh boy.

01:23:42.000 And he would have um Night Terrors and all this.

01:23:42.000 Yeah.

01:23:46.000 There's photos of him, like they called it the bang bang because they had these police scanners, and once they would go this is early 90s, uh in South Africa, and once they heard it on the scanner, it's like a bang bang.

01:23:59.000 And they would be there a lot of times before the cops, like some kind of civil rights or civil fight would happen and they would get hear it on the scanner and they'd go like Scooby-Doo kind of shit.

01:24:11.000 They'd get there before the cops a lot of time, or the military, and they'd be in the middle of this shooting it, uh, photographing it.

01:24:19.000 And you see pics of Kev that are just like him in like one shoe high, hiding behind like a fucking barrel in the middle of this gun fight.

01:24:31.000 Like they would get really into it, and then he was a guy that just kind of took everything to heart, you know, of just he would see some fucking pretty abysmal shit and just be like, take it, you know, wear it.

01:24:44.000 And uh it just hammered him.

01:24:46.000 And so he would take these drugs and just to sleep and just to get over or get through it.

01:24:52.000 Um but yeah, that was really tough coming out of him just because I didn't know myself enough or process be able to really kind of became a part of him.

01:25:03.000 Yeah, and then the weight and all that, and then with Dave.

01:25:10.000 Um yeah, I was so ready to gain the weight back and just wipe my hands with it.

01:25:16.000 I always go on a motorcycle trip after, and that sets me free, hop helps me a lot.

01:25:21.000 I'll write letters and just burn them.

01:25:24.000 That helps a lot.

01:25:25.000 They say when you're like, if I get therapy or something, or it's like write a letter and literally watch it burn, and that is something like that's a a mind trick, I'm sure.

01:25:35.000 Just like if there's trauma or something, figure out a way to let it go that way.

01:25:38.000 Yeah, like a ceremonial purging.

01:25:41.000 Exactly.

01:25:42.000 Yeah.

01:25:42.000 So that was a bang bang was harder than Koresh.

01:25:46.000 Yeah.

01:25:47.000 On me.

01:25:48.000 Because you would like not you hadn't been used to carrying around someone else's thoughts.

01:25:52.000 Exactly.

01:25:53.000 And that was the first time I started having really bad nightmares in South Africa.

01:25:59.000 And um, and I I just that started fucking with me a lot. 0.53

01:26:03.000 And then I was really happy it was only a a four week shoot.

01:26:07.000 Um did you try that tranquilizer, whatever the fuck it is, so you can know what it's like.

01:26:11.000 No.

01:26:12.000 I've only smoked weed three times in my life.

01:26:14.000 Nothing else?

01:26:15.000 Nothing else.

01:26:15.000 Little booze.

01:26:16.000 Little booze, yeah.

01:26:17.000 Yeah.

01:26:18.000 Um first time.

01:26:20.000 But just weed.

01:26:21.000 Yeah.

01:26:21.000 Wow.

01:26:22.000 Savages.

01:26:23.000 Uh with Oliver Stone.

01:26:25.000 So yeah.

01:26:25.000 Oh no.

01:26:26.000 Oliver goes hard.

01:26:27.000 He does.

01:26:29.000 I was surprised he still smokes weed.

01:26:31.000 Oh my God.

01:26:31.000 Yeah.

01:26:32.000 And uh I was in rehearsal and he asked me, and I hadn't smoked weed ever before.

01:26:38.000 Oh my god.

01:26:39.000 And I'm playing this guy, this obviously a seal, but that smokes weed, grows weed, sells weed, gets into the cartel.

01:26:39.000 Yeah.

01:26:47.000 And you smoke with Oliver Stone the first time?

01:26:49.000 No, my first time he gave me some of his medicinal.

01:26:53.000 And I went with a buddy who smokes weed all the time in uh staying at the Shangri Law in Santa Monica while we were filming, and my buddy bought uh brought over um a bong, a water bong.

01:27:05.000 Oh no.

01:27:07.000 Oh no, that's not how you do it.

01:27:09.000 If you could do it the first time, this is what I tell you to do.

01:27:12.000 Just go like this.

01:27:13.000 That's it.

01:27:14.000 That's it.

01:27:15.000 Just a little hit.

01:27:16.000 You gotta dip your toes in there.

01:27:18.000 Also known as Quaylutes.

01:27:20.000 Oh interesting.

01:27:23.000 That's what quaaludes are.

01:27:25.000 Wow.

01:27:28.000 What does it say it's it's doing to your brain?

01:27:31.000 Oh, it's a muscle relaxant.

01:27:33.000 Yeah.

01:27:34.000 There you go.

01:27:34.000 How do you say that word?

01:27:35.000 Methyl qualone.

01:27:37.000 Methall, yeah.

01:27:39.000 Qualone?

01:27:41.000 Combination of drug known as mandrax, sown primarily in Europe, containing 250 milligrams of methylqualone and 20 milligrams of diphen.

01:27:54.000 Diphenhydramine?

01:27:55.000 In a single tablet.

01:27:56.000 Whoa.

01:27:58.000 That is commercial production was discontinued in many countries during the n mid 1980s due to widespread misuse, addiction, and associated public health concerns.

01:28:07.000 Yeah, you know when a popular drug gets pulled. 0.94

01:28:11.000 It's pretty bad.

01:28:13.000 Yeah, that was no joke.

01:28:14.000 So just because that was the first time you'd ever tried carrying around someone's thoughts, that was why it was because he was so fucked up. 0.81

01:28:20.000 Yeah.

01:28:21.000 And I was that actor where it was like I gotta be in trauma too, then.

01:28:25.000 Right, right, right, right.

01:28:26.000 Definitely.

01:28:27.000 Real.

01:28:28.000 Yeah.

01:28:28.000 But it comes out.

01:28:29.000 That's the fucked up thing.

01:28:30.000 It comes out in the role.

01:28:31.000 Like it seems real.

01:28:33.000 Like as nutty as Daniel Day Lewis's process is, when that motherfucker is that guy and there will be blood, you believe it.

01:28:40.000 I drink your big shake.

01:28:42.000 He's fucking there, man.

01:28:44.000 He's dialed in.

01:28:47.000 He's the best.

01:28:48.000 But it's just that process has got to be uh fucking soul crushing.

01:28:52.000 Yeah.

01:28:52.000 Because you lose you.

01:28:54.000 You lose you, and now you're some fucked up person. 0.99

01:28:58.000 Like David Koresh.

01:28:58.000 Yeah.

01:29:00.000 Yeah.

01:29:01.000 Having nightmares.

01:29:02.000 Living in a fucking mini hotel room in South Africa.

01:29:06.000 Jeez.

01:29:07.000 Like lonely as fuck.

01:29:09.000 Yeah, it's no joke.

01:29:11.000 That was no joke.

01:29:12.000 But I th I've learned my process a lot more.

01:29:14.000 Did you have to refine it on your own?

01:29:16.000 Did you get help with that?

01:29:17.000 Yeah, it was Waco that really kind of set me straight in my process, really helped me figure out like my me.

01:29:24.000 Because it's all self-exploratory shit as well, as is acting.

01:29:28.000 And uh and then I you're just way more conscious of it.

01:29:32.000 Of like, okay, like even with relationships of like, okay, that's I s I can get quite short, like be like true detective.

01:29:42.000 I was oddly an asshole through the whole thing.

01:29:45.000 And I had my best friend of 30 years with me helping me on that, and I was drinking like a f to blackout.

01:29:52.000 And that's not me.

01:29:53.000 I don't drink much, but I was just a fucking mess.

01:29:56.000 And my buddy was is like played in the NHL, AHL, was a fighter.

01:30:01.000 Like he would fucking murder me.

01:30:03.000 You were getting shitty with him.

01:30:05.000 Really shitty with him.

01:30:08.000 And I would poke him.

01:30:10.000 That's booze, bro.

01:30:11.000 I know.

01:30:11.000 Booze.

01:30:12.000 It is the worst.

01:30:13.000 I know, man.

01:30:14.000 It's the worst for that.

01:30:15.000 So many drunk people get themselves into situations that they really should not be in.

01:30:20.000 And I would poke 'em, man, and we'd go to this shithole bar, it's called Sports Harbor.

01:30:25.000 I don't even know if it's open anymore.

01:30:26.000 But I would fuck around.

01:30:29.000 And uh I didn't have to find out, but I definitely was getting that really I was conscious of it, and he would have to have a moment with me of like, hey, you said this last night or do you think it was partly because you're trying to play a detective and detectives are kind of all fucked up, all fucked up in the closet, just a mess.

01:30:49.000 Um do you think that's what it was?

01:30:51.000 Like Yeah, I do.

01:30:52.000 Yeah.

01:30:53.000 Cause after I shed it, or after it wrapped, I was with my sis right after, but I was fine.

01:30:58.000 I didn't touch anything.

01:31:00.000 But during, I was no bueno.

01:31:02.000 Wow.

01:31:03.000 Even getting ready for this, it's uh I play this um director of corrections in Texas.

01:31:09.000 It's a true story about uh the longest hostage situation in Te in the US in a prison.

01:31:18.000 It's 11 day hostage negotiation, and Freddie Carrasco is gonna be played by Luna, Diego Luna, who's I can't wait to see what he fucking does with this.

01:31:27.000 But um I play the director of corrections, so we're negotiating for 11 days, and I and he's gotta be quite hard on his war in on the guys in his war room.

01:31:40.000 And he kind of comes in and he takes over the negotiation.

01:31:44.000 Um and he's never done a negotiation before.

01:31:47.000 So he makes a mistake here or there, and he fucking pays the piper psychologically for it because it doesn't end great.

01:31:56.000 And um, and so I'm starting to get into that mindset, and when I'm it with a buddy or something like that, I can be quite short and you start to see it filtering in.

01:32:06.000 I'm like, okay, Jim is settling in me.

01:32:10.000 Like I can start to feel it a little bit more.

01:32:12.000 I get a little more reactionary.

01:32:15.000 Yeah.

01:32:16.000 That's so creepy.

01:32:17.000 Yeah, it's like you're getting haunted.

01:32:20.000 You're kind of getting haunted by your characters.

01:32:23.000 But that's dude, that's why you're so good.

01:32:25.000 I I think that's there's something to that, man, because you're fucking believable.

01:32:30.000 You know, like I've seen you in a bunch of movies, but it doesn't matter.

01:32:33.000 Whatever the fuck you're doing, I believe, even though I know, oh, that's Taylor Kitch.

01:32:37.000 I've seen him in Lone Survivor, I've seen him in this, I've seen him in that.

01:32:37.000 Yeah.

01:32:40.000 When you're in that, the same as the the Daniel Day Lewis thing.

01:32:44.000 That's he's that guy.

01:32:45.000 He's that fucking guy.

01:32:46.000 And even though you know who he is, that's how good he is that he's still that guy, even though you know who the fuck that is.

01:32:52.000 Oh, I know.

01:32:53.000 It's like the trick works.

01:32:55.000 That fucking monologue Daniel Day has on the porch where he's like, I don't to his brother, I think it is, where he goes, I don't like people.

01:33:02.000 Oh fucking time.

01:33:02.000 Yeah.

01:33:05.000 Yeah.

01:33:06.000 He is the best to do it.

01:33:08.000 Such a complicated character he played, too.

01:33:10.000 I know.

01:33:11.000 It was so much to it.

01:33:12.000 He's he's got something coming out soon too.

01:33:15.000 His son, I think, directed it, which is gonna be a fucking banger. 0.99

01:33:19.000 I I think he plays a soldier that comes back or I saw a trailer just yeah.

01:33:24.000 Yeah, that's right.

01:33:24.000 I saw a trailer recently.

01:33:26.000 Yeah.

01:33:27.000 That fucking thing of carrying a guy around like that, whether it's the detective or Koresh or the bang bang guy, it's like that's gotta be fucking exhausting.

01:33:37.000 Yeah.

01:33:39.000 Because you're like real light in real life.

01:33:41.000 You're friendly and like, hey, what's up?

01:33:43.000 How are you doing?

01:33:44.000 I was because I didn't know.

01:33:44.000 I didn't know what you're gonna be like.

01:33:46.000 Everybody's different, you know.

01:33:47.000 I heard horror stories of you.

01:33:51.000 Have you really?

01:33:52.000 No.

01:33:53.000 No, no.

01:33:54.000 I try to be nice, but you know I was just with uh Sheridan the other day.

01:33:59.000 Oh, Taylor, I love that guy.

01:34:00.000 Yeah, man.

01:34:01.000 Beauty love, and of course, Pete and every car, everyone's like, you're gonna have a fucking blast.

01:34:06.000 So no, for sure.

01:34:07.000 Everybody told me that about you too.

01:34:09.000 Yeah.

01:34:09.000 Oh, great.

01:34:10.000 But you know, you don't know, I know until you read someone.

01:34:12.000 But that I'm glad I didn't meet you while you're on full detective on true detective in full character.

01:34:17.000 You know, because full character is fucking crazy.

01:34:20.000 You're kind of haunted.

01:34:21.000 Yeah.

01:34:21.000 You gotta live it.

01:34:23.000 You gotta live it.

01:34:24.000 I think I mean you look at anybody that's great at anything, you have to that it's amount, It's the amount of sacrifice you're willing to give to it.

01:34:32.000 Yeah, you have to be truly all in all the time.

01:34:35.000 And I think it's that like the fear of failure, and also I don't want to fucking watch it and be like, oh can't you didn't know what to do?

01:34:40.000 Right, right.

01:34:41.000 That would kill me.

01:34:42.000 Right, right.

01:34:43.000 That would fucking kill me.

01:34:44.000 Yeah, the the watching a guy phone it in is the m worst feeling as a a a consumer of the show.

01:34:51.000 Like a a a you know, passenger on the ride watching someone phone it in, like, no, dude.

01:34:51.000 Yeah.

01:34:58.000 Do another take.

01:34:59.000 Yeah, that's the women. 1.00

01:35:01.000 Motherfucker. 0.99

01:35:02.000 What are you doing?

01:35:03.000 You going through a divorce?

01:35:04.000 Like, what's going on, man?

01:35:04.000 Yeah.

01:35:06.000 Hey, they're out there, man.

01:35:08.000 Can't lock in.

01:35:09.000 Yeah.

01:35:09.000 I've worked with some pretty fucking huge names that have apologized.

01:35:14.000 Yeah.

01:35:15.000 After uh a film or at the premiere or something that were like, hey, I'm I I'm sorry, man, I just wasn't there.

01:35:21.000 Like in my head, I'm like, no, I know.

01:35:21.000 That's crazy.

01:35:23.000 Oh, I had Charlie Sheen on yes or no.

01:35:23.000 Yeah.

01:35:26.000 And he was talking about his time doing anger management.

01:35:26.000 No way.

01:35:26.000 Yeah.

01:35:30.000 About he was still really fucked up and just doing way too many drugs and he was trying to be locked in and he was, and he just didn't do it.

01:35:37.000 And then he wanted didn't want to do it anymore, so he was miserable while he was there, and he's all fucked up and and he's like apologizing to everybody now. 0.64

01:35:45.000 I was like, I am so sweetheart of a guy, like a really nice guy.

01:35:49.000 He's sober.

01:35:50.000 Eight years.

01:35:51.000 Almost eight years.

01:35:52.000 Yes.

01:35:52.000 Amazing.

01:35:53.000 Yeah.

01:35:53.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:35:54.000 Damn.

01:35:54.000 But y you know, you can see the itch behind his eyes.

01:35:57.000 You know, that's a struggle.

01:35:57.000 Right.

01:35:58.000 That's sober is a struggle sober.

01:36:00.000 Because that guy went through it for so many years.

01:36:04.000 The stories that he was telling about, like literally how 1 a.m. to 7 a.m. would go by like that, and then all of a sudden someone was pounding on his door.

01:36:12.000 It's time to go to work.

01:36:13.000 He's like, I am high as fuck on crack.

01:36:16.000 And he goes, and so I have to lie in bed.

01:36:18.000 So he'd lie in bed.

01:36:19.000 I'd try to close my eyes.

01:36:20.000 He goes, I'm not taking a nap.

01:36:22.000 He goes, I'm cracked out of my mind.

01:36:23.000 My whole body's vibrating.

01:36:25.000 And he goes, and then I took a ice cube and I stuck it up my ass.

01:36:29.000 Get at it.

01:36:30.000 And the ice cube woke him up and got him back.

01:36:33.000 Like he was literally falling asleep on the set.

01:36:36.000 And he said, give me a couple minutes, and he shoved an ice cube up his ass. 0.51

01:36:44.000 That movie writes itself.

01:36:46.000 Bro, that guy went so much.

01:36:49.000 You know, you're just going to the fridge.

01:36:51.000 I gotta wake up.

01:36:52.000 He's literally falling asleep.

01:36:53.000 How do I wake up?

01:36:54.000 Shove an ice cube up my ass. 0.81

01:36:56.000 I guess it works.

01:36:57.000 What were the other choices?

01:36:59.000 Stick a fork into electric socket.

01:37:02.000 How did you get to an ice cube up your asshole?

01:37:07.000 But he was going that hard.

01:37:09.000 And you know, it just He's so lucky he didn't die.

01:37:13.000 So were the uppers and downers and everything.

01:37:16.000 The crack.

01:37:17.000 Well, people that he the girl he smoked crack with the first time he ever smoked crack with eventually overdosed.

01:37:23.000 He told a story about the first time he smoked crack, this girl who's a crackhead, she gave him a blow job while he took his first hit of crack.

01:37:31.000 He said, To this day I can't top that experience.

01:37:34.000 He goes, To this day.

01:37:35.000 He goes, I probably shouldn't say that.

01:37:36.000 He goes, to this day.

01:37:37.000 This is the greatest moment of my life.

01:37:40.000 Wow.

01:37:41.000 Holy shit.

01:37:42.000 Like, oh my God.

01:37:44.000 Isn't there a doc on him that just came out?

01:37:46.000 Yeah, that's what it's about.

01:37:47.000 Yeah.

01:37:48.000 He wrote a book and he did a dog.

01:37:49.000 Oh, he did.

01:37:50.000 Yeah.

01:37:50.000 That's doing movies again.

01:37:52.000 Is he?

01:37:53.000 Yes.

01:37:53.000 He's excited to be working again.

01:37:55.000 He was kind of a little bummed out that it took so long for him to get a job again.

01:37:58.000 But a lot of money.

01:38:04.000 It's a lot of insurance on the studio, yeah.

01:38:06.000 But now he's sober for eight years.

01:38:07.000 So believe it.

01:38:08.000 Wow, good for him.

01:38:09.000 Holy shit.

01:38:10.000 What is 60 now?

01:38:12.000 He's in his 60s.

01:38:13.000 He actually looks good.

01:38:14.000 Does he?

01:38:14.000 So for a long time he looked terrible.

01:38:16.000 And I said to him, I go, dude, you look better than I've seen you.

01:38:19.000 I mean, I hadn't seen him ever in real life.

01:38:20.000 It was the first time I ever met him.

01:38:22.000 But it was he looked good.

01:38:23.000 He looked healthy.

01:38:24.000 Like remarkable for a guy that's gone through fucking abused.

01:38:29.000 Twenty years of redlining the machine.

01:38:32.000 Just bang.

01:38:37.000 Twenty years of crack.

01:38:39.000 I'm gonna watch that doc.

01:38:41.000 Oh, it's the dock is great.

01:38:42.000 It's really entertaining too.

01:38:43.000 It's really well shot.

01:38:44.000 It's really well shot.

01:38:45.000 Yeah, really well edited.

01:38:46.000 And that story family is pretty epic.

01:38:49.000 Yes.

01:38:50.000 Oh, Martin's the fucking thing.

01:38:50.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:38:52.000 Come on.

01:38:52.000 Yeah.

01:38:53.000 Damn.

01:38:54.000 Yeah, no, uh, we talked about apocalypse now too, which was really crazy because he was on the set when he was eight years old.

01:39:00.000 Eight or ten.

01:39:01.000 Ten.

01:39:01.000 Ten?

01:39:02.000 Ten years old.

01:39:02.000 So he's ten years old in the Philippines on the set of Apocalypse now while it's being filmed.

01:39:09.000 Yeah, helicopters, fucking Robert Duval, everything.

01:39:13.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:39:14.000 Yeah.

01:39:14.000 Dude, he was there.

01:39:16.000 Ten.

01:39:16.000 Oh my God.

01:39:18.000 And your dad's Martin Sheen.

01:39:19.000 And the Philippines back then, too.

01:39:22.000 Dude, I love that movie so much.

01:39:23.000 I wear this watch.

01:39:24.000 This is the Willard.

01:39:25.000 This is a uh this is a reproduction of the watch that Martin Sheen wore.

01:39:29.000 No way.

01:39:30.000 Apocalypse now.

01:39:30.000 Yeah.

01:39:31.000 It's my favorite watch.

01:39:32.000 Yeah.

01:39:32.000 Because of that.

01:39:33.000 Yeah.

01:39:33.000 Just because well, it's a nice watch.

01:39:34.000 It's a Seiko.

01:39:35.000 But like they all, the Vietnam soldiers all got Seikos because they were like super durable and reliable.

01:39:42.000 Look at that.

01:39:42.000 That's given.

01:39:44.000 Oh my god.

01:39:45.000 I didn't fucking get it in there, but Oh my God.

01:39:48.000 On the set of Apocalypse Now.

01:39:51.000 In 1979.

01:39:52.000 That is crazy.

01:39:54.000 Oh, how old was Martin Sheen then?

01:39:57.000 Looks pretty young.

01:39:58.000 Yeah.

01:39:58.000 I mean What a legend, though.

01:40:00.000 He literally seemed like in the movie he was in his early 30s, right?

01:40:03.000 Damn.

01:40:04.000 Yeah.

01:40:05.000 Crazy.

01:40:08.000 I mean you wonder why.

01:40:09.000 And then ten years later, literally ten years later, he's doing Platoon.

01:40:14.000 Oh my god.

01:40:15.000 Which is the next epic war movie.

01:40:19.000 Oliver Stone's directing.

01:40:21.000 William Defoe.

01:40:22.000 Willem Dafoe.

01:40:23.000 Who's the other guy?

01:40:23.000 The other guy with the scars.

01:40:25.000 Tom uh who is it?

01:40:28.000 Yes.

01:40:29.000 Dude, that guy ruled in that movie.

01:40:31.000 Yep, he did.

01:40:31.000 He seems so scary.

01:40:33.000 Yeah.

01:40:33.000 Willem's an amazing guy.

01:40:35.000 Yeah.

01:40:35.000 Amazing.

01:40:36.000 That guy's he I love that guy and everything.

01:40:38.000 He was great in John Wick.

01:40:39.000 He's great in everything.

01:40:40.000 He really is.

01:40:41.000 Yeah.

01:40:41.000 It's great in everything.

01:40:42.000 Willem Defoe's the fucking man.

01:40:43.000 Yeah.

01:40:43.000 But like to be there at 10, watching your dad filming the apocalypse now, and then ten years later, you're in Platoon.

01:40:51.000 And Oliver North is directing you, and your narration.

01:40:55.000 Oh, excuse me.

01:40:55.000 Oliver Oliver North, that's hilarious.

01:40:57.000 Oliver Stone is directing you, and you're doing the narration.

01:41:01.000 Like the whole thing is ten years.

01:41:03.000 How do you adjust to that?

01:41:04.000 No, you don't.

01:41:05.000 Well, that's how you adjust.

01:41:08.000 One word.

01:41:09.000 Yeah.

01:41:10.000 Well, it took a while.

01:41:10.000 Crack.

01:41:12.000 That was his drug of choice.

01:41:13.000 Started with Coke.

01:41:14.000 When that girl blow him, when the girl gave him a blowjob while he was smoking crack, it was crack from then on out.

01:41:19.000 It's like, I get it now.

01:41:20.000 It's a hard sell.

01:41:22.000 Damn.

01:41:22.000 It's just crazy that it's crazy that he's alive.

01:41:26.000 But all one of the things that we were saying that I was talking to him about, it was like no one could understand what you went through.

01:41:26.000 Yeah.

01:41:32.000 Because no one has ever done that.

01:41:34.000 No one has ever been Charlie Sheen at 20 years old and been in Platoon, and you're the toast of the town, and you're a baby.

01:41:40.000 Yeah.

01:41:40.000 You know, you're just getting out of high school.

01:41:42.000 You know, like what?

01:41:44.000 A baby man.

01:41:45.000 And then the world's your oyster.

01:41:47.000 You're you're doing blow every night.

01:41:49.000 And it's chaos.

01:41:50.000 Just nuts.

01:41:51.000 You're off the rails, and every time you fail, you succeed better.

01:41:55.000 Like every every time you go into rehab, there's a better movie waiting for you on the other side.

01:41:59.000 There's no consequences career-wise.

01:42:01.000 God.

01:42:02.000 And he just keeps going on.

01:42:03.000 The baseball movie.

01:42:04.000 God.

01:42:05.000 Major League.

01:42:05.000 I love it.

01:42:06.000 Oh, yeah.

01:42:06.000 Oh, he was awesome in that movie.

01:42:08.000 Yeah.

01:42:08.000 The best.

01:42:09.000 I grew up watching that.

01:42:09.000 Yeah.

01:42:10.000 Yeah, dude.

01:42:11.000 That guy, that guy's been in some great fucking movies.

01:42:14.000 He's been in some great fucking movies.

01:42:16.000 But to be him and to, you know, to no, there's no blueprint for that kind of movie.

01:42:22.000 What was his bottom out?

01:42:23.000 Did he tell you?

01:42:24.000 He kind of like there was a bunch of bottoms out.

01:42:28.000 And then eventually two and a half men or something.

01:42:28.000 Yeah, losing.

01:42:31.000 Yeah, it was that, and then it was his behavior afterwards, and then he did he very apologized to Chuck Laurie.

01:42:37.000 He says we've talked, I've apologized, we're friends now.

01:42:40.000 Like, because I've got to do it.

01:42:40.000 Like, thank God.

01:42:41.000 Is he live in LA?

01:42:43.000 Charlie?

01:42:43.000 I don't know.

01:42:44.000 Remember what he said?

01:42:44.000 No wonder.

01:42:46.000 I don't think he said.

01:42:47.000 I don't think I asked him.

01:42:47.000 Yeah.

01:42:48.000 I don't know if he's still there.

01:42:50.000 Um, but he's been completely sober for eight years.

01:42:53.000 Good for him.

01:42:54.000 Holy shit.

01:42:54.000 Yeah, good for him.

01:42:55.000 Like if he can do it.

01:42:56.000 Yeah, no shit.

01:42:57.000 That guy could do it.

01:42:58.000 And he seems to get it.

01:42:59.000 Oh, both of them bad.

01:43:01.000 Baringer was in that too.

01:43:02.000 That's right.

01:43:03.000 That's crazy that they played that completely different roles.

01:43:07.000 Baringer and Platoon was so scary.

01:43:09.000 Yeah.

01:43:10.000 Scared the fuck out of me.

01:43:11.000 Damn.

01:43:12.000 I love that shit.

01:43:13.000 Yeah.

01:43:13.000 It's just amazing that that guy's life arc to go from being a child on the set of apocalypse now to ten years later starring in Plato.

01:43:24.000 Three.

01:43:25.000 Yeah, no.

01:43:26.000 We were talking about it yesterday.

01:43:27.000 Yeah.

01:43:27.000 I thought it was even more than that.

01:43:28.000 I think the entire production asking for mind.

01:43:31.000 Forever.

01:43:32.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:43:32.000 Francis Four Copeland, man.

01:43:34.000 come on.

01:43:35.000 He nailed it.

01:43:37.000 To this day, I will watch that movie every now and then and just sit there and go, fuck.

01:43:41.000 Back then, too, to make a movie like that.

01:43:43.000 Yeah.

01:43:44.000 In 79.

01:43:45.000 Oh my god.

01:43:46.000 Come on, man.

01:43:47.000 That movie was epic.

01:43:49.000 And it was like one of the first like realistic war movies.

01:43:52.000 Then you got Platoon, like you said.

01:43:54.000 Yeah.

01:43:55.000 Epic.

01:43:55.000 Yeah.

01:43:56.000 It's crazy that he's, you know, he experienced both of them.

01:43:59.000 One as a child watching his dad, and one as a star, and all within the span of a decade.

01:44:04.000 Yeah.

01:44:04.000 Which is like 2015 was yesterday, man.

01:44:07.000 I know.

01:44:08.000 And the most formative years, too.

01:44:08.000 That's the one.

01:44:10.000 Yeah.

01:44:11.000 Ten.

01:44:11.000 Yeah.

01:44:12.000 What were you doing in the Philippines?

01:44:17.000 That was the other thing.

01:44:18.000 He was like, We I didn't know that that world existed.

01:44:20.000 He goes, like I was living in Malibu, you know, in this beautiful town on the beach, you know, everybody's like happy and wealthy, and his dad's a movie star.

01:44:29.000 And then all of a sudden he's in the Philippines.

01:44:31.000 And he's like in Francis Fort Coppola had all these sketchy people on set all the time.

01:44:35.000 Like he was so artist.

01:44:36.000 He's a nut.

01:44:37.000 Like everybody come on and hang out.

01:44:38.000 So there's all these weird fucking people around and three year fucking shoes. 0.95

01:44:42.000 Yeah, in the jungle.

01:44:43.000 Yeah, literally.

01:44:44.000 Using helicopters from the army, and he was saying that one time the army had to take the helicopters back because they there was rebels and there was a little bit of a big thing.

01:44:51.000 Oh my god, they had to use me.

01:44:52.000 Yeah, they had to borrow the helicopters.

01:44:55.000 There's another movie.

01:44:56.000 They had the whole scene rigged, they had the river was rigged with explosives.

01:45:00.000 They're ready to film the scene, and they were like, No, we need our helicopters back.

01:45:04.000 Holy fuck, man.

01:45:06.000 We need to go kill some heads.

01:45:07.000 It's old school movie making, though.

01:45:10.000 Yeah, man.

01:45:11.000 I mean, if you could go back in time to be on the set of any movie ever, what would it be?

01:45:16.000 Damn.

01:45:19.000 I mean I've got to I had dinner with Gibson one night, Mel Gibson, and I've worked with um what's his Brendan Gleason.

01:45:32.000 So maybe Braveheart.

01:45:34.000 That was a big one for me.

01:45:35.000 That was a big one.

01:45:36.000 Yeah.

01:45:37.000 Boy, that was a movie that made everybody want a sword fight afterwards.

01:45:41.000 Totally to get out of that movie.

01:45:43.000 Truly.

01:45:43.000 God damn it.

01:45:44.000 That one was big.

01:45:45.000 When he said freedom at the end of it.

01:45:47.000 I mean, come on.

01:45:48.000 Or when the when the uh when he the king pulls his helmet, he pulls the the helmet off the king and he sees he's fighting for the other side, and then you cut to Gibson this those fucking blue eyes that are trying he's trying to register that it's the king, his king.

01:46:05.000 And that moment for me was just like, oh my god.

01:46:09.000 Yeah, just beautiful.

01:46:10.000 Yeah.

01:46:11.000 Mel Gibson can make a fucking thing.

01:46:13.000 He really can.

01:46:14.000 He really can.

01:46:15.000 You know what I watched uh again recently?

01:46:17.000 Apocalypto.

01:46:18.000 Amazing.

01:46:19.000 Same, by the way.

01:46:20.000 No, it's a blockbuster movie that where no one speaks English.

01:46:24.000 Yep.

01:46:25.000 And no big movie stars.

01:46:26.000 Yeah, no big movie stars.

01:46:28.000 No one speaks English.

01:46:29.000 It's fucking amazing.

01:46:31.000 Yeah, it is.

01:46:32.000 And he used like real people that lived there.

01:46:34.000 Yeah.

01:46:35.000 Good for him, man.

01:46:36.000 Good for him.

01:46:37.000 What a fucking swing.

01:46:38.000 Yeah.

01:46:38.000 He's a fascinating guy.

01:46:40.000 Like his brain is like he's just rattling all over the place all the time.

01:46:44.000 First time he's on the podcast, he had a pen and he couldn't stop clicking it.

01:46:47.000 Like the entire time.

01:46:47.000 Oh god.

01:46:50.000 You fucking crazy person.

01:46:52.000 Put the pen down.

01:46:54.000 Oh man.

01:46:55.000 That was a cool dinner, though.

01:46:57.000 He told me uh some stories of Braveheart.

01:47:00.000 Wow.

01:47:01.000 Just riding the horse to all these cameras.

01:47:03.000 Like ripping the horse to one camera, seeing the shock, going to the next, seeing the shock, going in, doing the speech, going looking to play back.

01:47:10.000 Wow.

01:47:11.000 Just like, and then he's like falling asleep standing up.

01:47:13.000 He was so tired.

01:47:15.000 Like that's like epic.

01:47:16.000 Yeah.

01:47:18.000 And talk about realism.

01:47:20.000 Like those fights.

01:47:21.000 Oh no, still holds up.

01:47:23.000 Yeah.

01:47:24.000 That soundtrack.

01:47:25.000 Come on.

01:47:26.000 That was an incredible movie.

01:47:27.000 Like my dad played the bagpipes.

01:47:30.000 Um he played actually in the world championships in 95 in Scotland.

01:47:34.000 Really?

01:47:35.000 Yeah.

01:47:35.000 From Canada.

01:47:36.000 Yeah.

01:47:37.000 Yeah.

01:47:37.000 Went to Scotland.

01:47:38.000 Wow.

01:47:38.000 And then he uh so the pipes to me, like I remember he was an alcoholic and not a lot.

01:47:45.000 He wasn't around a lot.

01:47:47.000 And um he uh I remember some of my best memories was like you know the fucking sound of the pipes when you're putting air in.

01:47:55.000 It's the worst sound in the world.

01:47:57.000 It's like a rabbit, like getting bludgeoned.

01:48:02.000 And we would be at Christmas.

01:48:04.000 All my cousins, his side of the family.

01:48:07.000 And he would walk downstairs and you could hear this, these fucking pipes getting air put in.

01:48:12.000 And you could tell he had a few, and he was he would come up and stand in the middle of the living room and just rip the pipes.

01:48:21.000 And everyone's just like full stop and just beautiful.

01:48:25.000 And he'd play in in Barbados.

01:48:26.000 He worked in Barbados doing a lot of like the pavers, the golf pass, and he'd play at funerals.

01:48:33.000 And um when uh how did he do in the world championships?

01:48:33.000 Wow.

01:48:37.000 I don't know.

01:48:38.000 That's a good question, but it's a great story.

01:48:41.000 Um so prime evil, I was fly fishing in uh the Madison uh just West Yellowstone.

01:48:48.000 I had four days off, so I went home to a Bozeman was fly fishing.

01:48:51.000 Only my favorite spot on the in West Yellowstone.

01:48:54.000 My bro calls me, and he's and I'm like, I just caught like a 20-inch rainbow or something, and I'm fucking ripping into my brother, being like, This fucking I'm killing it, the rod's on fire right now, and he's like, uh so my dad raced cars as well, and his race car name, or is we called him GUI growing up, and he's like, Gooey's got 48 hours to live.

01:49:18.000 And I was like, ah, fuck.

01:49:20.000 All right, um, literally, just verbatim like that.

01:49:24.000 Like, I saw him the last 19 years, I saw him twice, and one time was in Montana, and he had early onset dementia, and uh my brother drove him down.

01:49:33.000 Great stories there, but so I drive, I take my adventure van, drive up to Kelowna, my hometown, and um I've got this big beard from prime evil, and I hadn't talked to one of my brothers in years, and then I was still close with the oldest, and get to the hospital, and he's um I turn his wheelchair around, and I'm like, Hey, hey, gooey, and he's like, Who the fuck are you?

01:50:02.000 Whoa, yeah, and uh he's on like oxygen, and I'm like, I'm your youngest son, and he's like, What are you doing here?

01:50:10.000 And I'm like, I'm just here to say hi and and hang out for a couple days.

01:50:14.000 And he was like on point, like his brain was going.

01:50:19.000 And um, and it was a little like I hadn't seen my one bro forever.

01:50:23.000 So how long had it been since you'd seen him before that?

01:50:26.000 Years, a couple years, yeah, probably two years.

01:50:29.000 And is it dementia that he didn't recognize you or the beard?

01:50:32.000 No, the beard, it was the beard.

01:50:35.000 And I was limping with that fucking toe, and um, so uh we go up to his room.

01:50:45.000 This is a Friday at noon-ish, and he's great though.

01:50:50.000 Like, so we had this young doctor, he's like 40, great guy.

01:50:55.000 I go and sit down with him, he's like, I'm like, dude, he's dialed.

01:50:59.000 Like, what do you mean he's gonna fucking die?

01:51:01.000 Like, he's on point.

01:51:03.000 And uh, he's like, This is what happens.

01:51:06.000 Sometimes when somebody like this, he doesn't know he's dying, but he is once like all three of us brothers, all three of his sons were there, and it's like a high and everything he's just dialed into it all, and just very present.

01:51:23.000 Because everybody's there, yeah.

01:51:24.000 And he's like, the doc is like man, I have a feeling all three sons haven't been together with him, and I'm like, in 25 years.

01:51:32.000 Wow.

01:51:33.000 And so we were all there, and I had my assistant back in um Santa Fe, and I was like, hey, my dad played for a Kelowna Pipe Band, and I was like, call her.

01:51:44.000 I'm like, you gotta help me here.

01:51:46.000 Get a piper and to come play for him at the hospital, and she's like, on it, and she was great.

01:51:54.000 And uh the next the next or Friday night, I'm like, gooey, what do you want for breakfast?

01:52:00.000 And he's like, give me something I shouldn't have.

01:52:02.000 Give me like a fucking Costco muffin, and uh and a stupid amount of whipped cream and a coffee. 0.98

01:52:09.000 And so, of course, I go overboard and bring him this fucking ridiculous the big chocolate chip muffin and and uh the coffee in the next morning, but he had gone from like dialed to he's hurting, and uh so we got this piper to come.

01:52:24.000 We fucking we're not allowed to do this.

01:52:27.000 We bring him out in the courtyard, and uh, and the piper comes and he's asleep, and uh she's like, uh, what do you what do you want me to play?

01:52:37.000 Like we they know of my dad that he had played for the Kelowna Pipe End, and And I'm like, I don't know many songs.

01:52:45.000 And um, I just obviously amazing grace and stuff like that.

01:52:48.000 And so she just rips it, and he wakes up, and we're all buckled emotionally, right?

01:52:54.000 Because this whole the pipes to us is just like that's our father.

01:52:58.000 That's like our only memory, one of our only memories for him.

01:53:01.000 So um, she plays two songs, and he's fallen asleep again, and he wakes up and he's and I'm like, Gooey, you got one more song.

01:53:10.000 And he's like, Okay, he was a mama's boy, loved his mom, and uh, and she was amazing.

01:53:16.000 And um, he's like, play one for my mother.

01:53:18.000 So I think at that point, he knew he was about to go see her.

01:53:23.000 And uh, yeah, so we have all this on video, and and um his brother was there and his wife and uh his best friend growing up, and so we fucking the nurse comes out after the pipes.

01:53:37.000 They're not obviously the whole fucking hospital can hear this, and so we're obviously got caught, and she's like, Bring him up now.

01:53:45.000 And so we're like, yes, yes, ma'am.

01:53:47.000 So we fucking have him in his bed, and you know those like um wheelchair ramps, uh-huh. 0.99

01:53:54.000 It's like a hard 90 degree, and he's out, he's sleeping, and my middle, I'm the youngest of three boys, my middle bro's big, and then my other bro's like six, two, big boy too, and we're fucking we got him, and we're stuck in that turn.

01:54:12.000 So now it's like weekend at Bernie's and this is like a uh pain movie where it's like he's fucking, I'm like, hey, gooey's stuck.

01:54:24.000 Boys, he's stuck.

01:54:25.000 We can't get over this fucking corner because the bed's too long, and uh, we're dying like we needed a laugh. 0.56

01:54:33.000 And uh, so I look down and gooey's arm is like fucking crooked, jammed in that bar. 0.56

01:54:41.000 Oh no.

01:54:42.000 Yeah.

01:54:43.000 So I'm like, oh, whoa, whoa, back up a bit.

01:54:45.000 So we back loosen up, and it's like it's not broken, but we he didn't feel any of this shit.

01:54:51.000 So we're like crying laughing because it's like a weekend that fucking Bernie's it's our dark humor, man.

01:54:58.000 Right.

01:54:59.000 You gotta laugh in those moments.

01:55:01.000 Yeah, yeah, I guess.

01:55:02.000 Yeah, because other we were just buckled 10 minutes earlier, get him to the room, and he's in and out sleeping, and um the next day on Father's Day, uh, I had I had to drive back to Bozeman, and uh we have dark humor, and uh so everyone's in the in the room, and I'm like, all right, get the fuck out of this room, everybody like a joke, but the nurses are like, oh my god, what happened?

01:55:31.000 I'm like, oh I'm sorry, it's a joke.

01:55:33.000 I just want 10 minutes with him, and then I gotta go.

01:55:36.000 I gotta go back to work, but I'm gonna say goodbye.

01:55:39.000 And so they leave, and uh he's like kind of in and out of consciousness, and he would wake up and look right through you, like he's trying to be with you or present, or I don't know, that's kind of how I took it.

01:55:53.000 And uh he's fighting consciousness, I guess.

01:55:57.000 And um, small little side note, I was driving, and the shaman who was helping me for prime evil, he texted me once I got into Canada, and he was like, Hey, I had a dream, you gotta fucking call me.

01:56:14.000 And I'm like, I don't know if I believe this stuff, but oh I'll call you.

01:56:18.000 And so I call him and he's like, hey, something's up.

01:56:22.000 And I'm like, I've told three people that my dad's going, and he's like, I had a fucking dream that you're about to lose someone.

01:56:31.000 I don't know if they're close to you, and I hate calling.

01:56:34.000 This is a crazy call, but I'm gonna listen to this.

01:56:36.000 And I'm like, man, I'm on my way to say goodbye to my dad.

01:56:39.000 He goes, Okay, that's what it is.

01:56:41.000 Yeah.

01:56:43.000 Weird is that.

01:56:44.000 Yeah.

01:56:45.000 What is that?

01:56:45.000 I know, I don't know what that is.

01:56:47.000 I'm still and uh he's like, How look, tell me about your dad.

01:56:51.000 What what kind of guy was he?

01:56:53.000 I'm like, not very present.

01:56:55.000 He drank a lot, and uh, you know, some regrets, of course, and um this and that.

01:57:02.000 And he goes, Okay, I'm gonna set up an altar and pray for him, and this is what I think is gonna happen.

01:57:08.000 Um he's not gonna go cross over very easily because of the life he's lived.

01:57:15.000 And so when I'm one on one with my dad, I started the conversation.

01:57:20.000 I'm like, gooey, it's me.

01:57:22.000 And uh out, and he had uh soft hands.

01:57:26.000 That's one thing I remember.

01:57:28.000 So I grabbed his hand and our humor.

01:57:31.000 I'm like, yeah, these are a little fucking soft gooey.

01:57:34.000 Like maybe you should have worked harder, like no calluses, like nothing.

01:57:39.000 Just you know, just trying to and then I went into like the nonprofit, and I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna try and get back and this and that, and I promised him.

01:57:49.000 And um, and during that conversation, he would try and like be conscious and he was fighting to be there present.

01:57:58.000 Yeah, but he was I think gone.

01:58:00.000 Um and then two hours I I left, and then I on the way home, I broke all and he had passed on Father's Day, and then um then I was back to work on Tuesday, fucking riding banana bread.

01:58:00.000 Yeah.

01:58:13.000 Wow, my horse.

01:58:15.000 Yeah, with like Shea Wiggum, who's an amazing actor.

01:58:17.000 He played Jim Bridger and that, but um, yeah, Pete was great with me.

01:58:22.000 And did that help you like hold a feeling of loss for your your character?

01:58:26.000 I think it I mean, how crazy art simulating life and vice versa.

01:58:32.000 Especially when I'm playing a guy mourning, right?

01:58:35.000 And then all of a sudden, like my father who I didn't really have died.

01:58:39.000 But it's still your dad, you know.

01:58:42.000 And um, and Pete was like, hey, this, you know, do you want to ride banana bread into this into this shot or walk him?

01:58:49.000 Or and uh I'm like, I'll I'll ride him in.

01:58:52.000 And I was doing a scene with Shea Wiggum, and it was beautiful because I was upset that some knew that it's my news to tell, you know, but some had already knew the crew.

01:59:05.000 So I was a little rattled at that when I got to set because everyone was very fragile with me, which I understand.

01:59:11.000 Right, but I was like, whoever told you guys it's not your story to fucking tell, it's mine if I want to share it with the crew or whoever.

01:59:18.000 But so I was a little upset on and set, but then a lot it was so beautiful, man, because a lot of these older guys on set would just come up and be like, Man, my father was this guy to me, this guy, but you know, I just I feel you, and they would share all their father stories.

01:59:35.000 So it was a beautiful experience, and um Pete was great, and Betty Gilpin was amazing, and and that scene I just buckled, like walked away from the uh Fort Bridger, and I just was pretty emotional and and uh Pete was like amazing, and then we shot the scene, he's like, Go home, and then I got to my trailer, and literally to the minute uh of when I went down, that was the minute he got cremated.

02:00:05.000 Wow, yeah.

02:00:06.000 And then um, but I do think it it was really cathartic to be playing that guy, and then I had a beautiful sweat after, and I mourned him the right way, you know.

02:00:18.000 It did knock me though, for like I'd say six months after I was like, What am I doing?

02:00:26.000 Am I doing everything or enough?

02:00:28.000 Am I living my life enough?

02:00:30.000 Because I even if he's not in your life, you're still like to witness that is it was heavy.

02:00:36.000 Yeah, but I had mourn him right, and uh, you know, I'm in a good spot now, but it it was an interesting thing of you just take stock, I guess.

02:00:46.000 I've never lost somebody close to me.

02:00:49.000 Um, especially in that way.

02:00:52.000 So yeah, it was just a a blessing to be still on set working and doing that.

02:00:58.000 Yeah, sometimes you just need to appreciate people, and sometimes it takes a loss before you appreciate others sometimes.

02:01:04.000 It's just like you just get too used to people.

02:01:08.000 You get you too used to them being around, you take them for granted.

02:01:11.000 Yeah, and then if they're gone, you just that's you know what, Joe?

02:01:15.000 That's what I was fucking literally saying.

02:01:18.000 He's just gone.

02:01:19.000 When I was just like that.

02:01:20.000 Lived in New York uh at a best friend that was a drug addict, and uh he was uh a crack addict at one point in time, and then uh later he started getting into uh harder stuff like opiates and he died of an overdose.

02:01:36.000 And um I moved to LA in 94, but you know, we stayed friends, we hung out.

02:01:41.000 Uh, he would come out to visit me, I'd go to visit him, but he was always fucked up.

02:01:45.000 He was always a mess.

02:01:46.000 Came to my house once, detoxed.

02:01:48.000 I didn't know that that's why he wanted to come to LA.

02:01:50.000 But he came to LA and he was just so sick, he just laid in bed for four or five days.

02:01:54.000 Brutal.

02:01:54.000 And then, you know.

02:01:56.000 A couple days later, you had to go back to New York.

02:01:58.000 But he uh died of an overdose, and uh another buddy of mine that uh I'm good friends with called me up that we were we were all tight together and called me up, and it just never made sense.

02:02:08.000 I was like, How is he not here?

02:02:10.000 Yeah, how is he gone?

02:02:11.000 Like it it just it just fucked me up where I knew he was gonna die.

02:02:16.000 I knew it was gonna happen, but I couldn't believe it happened.

02:02:20.000 And then, you know, you gotta go back to work.

02:02:22.000 I know back to life, you know.

02:02:24.000 Just you and you feel so like a piece of you's missing.

02:02:29.000 Yeah.

02:02:29.000 Like the world doesn't make sense.

02:02:31.000 True.

02:02:31.000 A person isn't in the world anymore.

02:02:34.000 It's so hard to imagine until it actually happens.

02:02:38.000 So abstract almost.

02:02:39.000 And like you said, even if like I had I had enough time to understand he was going.

02:02:44.000 Right.

02:02:45.000 But when they're gone, it's just totally different.

02:02:48.000 Yeah.

02:02:49.000 And then you just take stock and you're like, okay, I go am I doing enough?

02:02:52.000 Am I whatever it is?

02:02:54.000 It's just tell people you appreciate them sometimes.

02:02:56.000 Yeah.

02:02:56.000 That's sometimes that's all it's.

02:02:58.000 And forgave them.

02:02:59.000 Like I didn't hold I wasn't that son that was like, fuck, where were you?

02:02:59.000 Yeah.

02:03:03.000 Why didn't you do this for me?

02:03:04.000 Blah blah blah.

02:03:05.000 I was who he is.

02:03:06.000 Yep.

02:03:07.000 And you learn that as you get older.

02:03:09.000 People are who they are.

02:03:09.000 Yeah.

02:03:11.000 And so people also they grew up with monsters.

02:03:14.000 That's the other problem.

02:03:15.000 If you try to pretend that you know your parents should have their shit together because you have your shit together and they were your parents.

02:03:23.000 Well, it was who raised them.

02:03:23.000 No.

02:03:24.000 They were raised by people living in the depression.

02:03:26.000 Yeah.

02:03:27.000 You know what I mean?

02:03:27.000 Yeah.

02:03:28.000 They were raised by animals.

02:03:29.000 Yeah.

02:03:29.000 Like Yeah.

02:03:34.000 Truly.

02:03:35.000 Humans.

02:03:35.000 I've only been truly civilized for the last few decades.

02:03:38.000 Truly.

02:03:39.000 I think most of history is just horrific barbarism.

02:03:43.000 It's just slaughter and crime.

02:03:46.000 And repeat.

02:03:47.000 And repeat.

02:03:47.000 Yeah.

02:03:48.000 Over and over and over again until we developed the ability to communicate how bad that is.

02:03:48.000 Yeah.

02:03:55.000 And it doesn't fix it.

02:03:56.000 It it fixes it a little.

02:03:57.000 It gets it makes it a little better.

02:03:59.000 But still still, even today.

02:04:05.000 But the pipes.

02:04:06.000 So every time I hear the pipes, I'm like, ah, it gets you.

02:04:09.000 Yeah.

02:04:10.000 Oh, I'd imagine now.

02:04:11.000 I do want to go to Scotland.

02:04:12.000 Scotland's beautiful.

02:04:13.000 Yeah, I haven't been.

02:04:14.000 I've been there a few times.

02:04:15.000 I love it.

02:04:16.000 Yeah.

02:04:16.000 I love it.

02:04:17.000 People are very cool.

02:04:18.000 And it's not overcrowded.

02:04:19.000 And if you can get past the rain, which is kind of a good break every now, especially if you live in LA.

02:04:23.000 Yeah.

02:04:24.000 It's a good break.

02:04:24.000 Yeah.

02:04:25.000 To see rain everywhere where they like good luck starting a fire out there.

02:04:25.000 Yeah.

02:04:29.000 Yeah, yeah, right.

02:04:30.000 And go into the highlands, maybe take a motorcycle trip.

02:04:30.000 You know.

02:04:34.000 Or I do want to go and and watch those world championships.

02:04:37.000 Oh yeah.

02:04:38.000 Oh the highlights.

02:04:39.000 So the guy, I hired a three pipers for his funeral.

02:04:43.000 Oh wow.

02:04:43.000 And I pull in I got this on fucking video.

02:04:47.000 And uh I pull into the parking lot, a little church in the middle of my town, and they're doing the fucking putting the air in the bag, and I was like, this time it crushed me.

02:04:59.000 And I took a video from my truck and I went out, introduced myself, and he's like, You're not gonna fucking believe this.

02:05:05.000 And I'm like, he's older guy.

02:05:08.000 Um and he's like, I played next to your father at the world championships.

02:05:13.000 Wow.

02:05:14.000 Wow.

02:05:15.000 Like just randomly, this is the guy playing the funeral.

02:05:19.000 Wow.

02:05:20.000 And uh he was fucking amazing.

02:05:22.000 And uh he stayed a while and then it was like this little church, you go into this little gymnasium kind of spot, and he stayed and played in the in the back.

02:05:33.000 Uh and some of my uh that I didn't know, but some uh hit my dad's favorite songs, so I had those on video too, but it was just beautiful.

02:05:42.000 Wow.

02:05:42.000 Yeah.

02:05:43.000 And it brought all three boys back together, you know.

02:05:46.000 Now we're on good terms.

02:05:47.000 It's been super cathartic.

02:05:49.000 I was the only one to speak at the funeral.

02:05:53.000 And uh I'm in the pew, and it's his sister who I hadn't seen in a decade, And uh my two brothers and their kids, and my oldest is just a puddle.

02:06:07.000 He's just he's wearing sunglasses and just a mess.

02:06:12.000 And the priest was actually quite great.

02:06:14.000 He was funny, and uh, and then my other brother was in front of me and he was a puddle, and he doesn't like speaking, and I don't either, as me, I'm I get a little nervous or whatnot.

02:06:27.000 I'm always good if I'm in character or hiding behind something.

02:06:31.000 But the priest was like, okay, um, now's the time to say something, and the whole church is just like and I look at Damon, my other brother Brody, and then Damon looks back at me, priest looks at me, he's like, now's the time.

02:06:50.000 Oh, so you just had a just waiting it was you, yeah, and then my auntie Lee uh just squeezed my hand.

02:06:57.000 I'm like, I'm fucking saying something, aren't I?

02:06:59.000 And she's like she's like, Yes, you are.

02:07:03.000 So I get up and I just said, you know, if there's any light to this whole situation, it's that all three us of us brothers are are back on great terms now.

02:07:14.000 Oh, that's great.

02:07:15.000 Yeah, it's great.

02:07:16.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:07:16.000 That's cool.

02:07:18.000 And then right back to primeval.

02:07:21.000 Yeah, right back to prime evil.

02:07:23.000 Go get on banana bread.

02:07:25.000 Take it out on those motherfuckers. 1.00

02:07:29.000 Man, yeah, what a trip.

02:07:31.000 What a trip.

02:07:32.000 Yeah, that is a that's a crazy experience, man.

02:07:35.000 When you were doing the Koresh thing, like what was the thing that fucked you up the most about playing him? 0.95

02:07:42.000 About even preparing to play him.

02:07:42.000 Ooh.

02:07:46.000 Trying to root him emotionally to those circumstances that were so foreign.

02:07:53.000 Like the emotional beats of like, I just didn't understand it.

02:07:58.000 I didn't understand how someone could do what he did, and then he was very woe is me.

02:08:04.000 Like, he played the victim incredibly manipulatively well.

02:08:09.000 Uh and I would always say he's like a great coach in and he would a great coach would be like with you, he could train you and push certain buttons, but then he'll do something totally different with someone else and incredibly manipulative.

02:08:24.000 So I think just trying to root that and understand like I I don't think I'll ever understand some of the actions, obviously, um to that level, like how someone can do that.

02:08:37.000 Um, but it is all out of fear and insecurity and trauma, like that part of it I did understand and memorizing the Bible as a defense mechanism because when he's with there was over 20 theologians that would get on the call with him,

02:08:54.000 and if you and I listen to uh child protective service calls, uh obviously all the Nesnar uh calls, uh which was the played by Michael Shannon, who's amazing, and uh and every time he got his back to the wall and they had a point or had something or had a level up on him, he would go right into Bible speak, which nobody could keep up with him on.

02:09:20.000 So he would gain that upper hand, and I would just go into a fucking dialogue about a dragon with one eye is about to come and show its face and bare its teeth and take the children.

02:09:32.000 Like, what the fuck do you say to that?

02:09:35.000 You know, if you're on the call, right, right and you're trying to have a rational conversation of like let the children out.

02:09:43.000 Right.

02:09:44.000 We want these kids out, and he goes right, and he just goes into this Bible speak. 0.94

02:09:50.000 You're like, there's no real rebuttal to that.

02:09:53.000 Right.

02:09:54.000 And that was he did this with child protective services, too, on those calls.

02:09:58.000 He would just go right, and that was such an anchor to him because nobody could play a card like that.

02:10:05.000 Right, because as soon as you say words from the Bible, you're right.

02:10:09.000 Right to be right.

02:10:10.000 And he's merely quirk quoting the Bible.

02:10:12.000 Yeah.

02:10:13.000 And you're you're gonna argue with me, you're arguing with the Bible.

02:10:16.000 It's Trump card.

02:10:16.000 Right.

02:10:17.000 Truly, yeah.

02:10:18.000 Truly, and he would go to like Oxford and have debates with theologians in the classes, and that's how he recruited a lot of people that he would win these debates, and they would come and join, come to Texas.

02:10:34.000 Like really, like he would write these letters to people and send tapes to Australia and get them to come.

02:10:40.000 Wow.

02:10:41.000 Like this was incredibly smart guy.

02:10:41.000 Yeah.

02:10:45.000 Like that you have to give to him.

02:10:47.000 That isn't it so fucked up that someone with a brain that works that well would choose to use it in that way.

02:10:55.000 All just fear.

02:10:57.000 I mean, even the way like he's talking about God and the the end of days and um how he had needs to bear, I think around 22 children that are gonna go up with him and ride a cloud up there and all these crazy things.

02:11:11.000 He had the answers to aliens.

02:11:14.000 Uh what was that answer?

02:11:15.000 I can't remember, but people I do want to know.

02:11:18.000 The to your point though, it's like he ended up shooting himself in the head, right?

02:11:24.000 Which ironically, you don't go to heaven if you do that.

02:11:27.000 Which is um, but also like he does all this shit, and I don't know, just that was a big thing for like Paul Sparks and I who played my right hand man of like when we shot that death scene of like, man, like I do wish to your point he was still alive and we could learn shit.

02:11:48.000 You know, all these guys, they end this, like they drink the fucking Kool-Aid in the bed or the fucking like it's such a fascinating perspective that I do wish we could break that down and maybe learn something from this, than just him shooting himself in the head and burning a burning in the house.

02:12:08.000 What you could learn.

02:12:10.000 What you could learn, like, especially after the event, like the raid on the compound and everything.

02:12:15.000 Like, what could you all the people are dead?

02:12:17.000 Like, how what could you learn from that guy then?

02:12:20.000 He's gonna be so fucked up.

02:12:21.000 Yeah.

02:12:24.000 I mean, nine people survived that.

02:12:26.000 One of the survivors, uh, Thibodeau was there with us, his drummer.

02:12:30.000 Oh, wow every day.

02:12:32.000 Whoa.

02:12:33.000 And uh, yeah.

02:12:34.000 And uh what did he say he was like it goes back to your point that he still was thinking that he's coming back.

02:12:42.000 Oh my god.

02:12:44.000 Yeah.

02:12:45.000 Wow.

02:12:45.000 So he I know and this didn't come out until our last week of shooting.

02:12:51.000 Cause I got along incredibly well with him.

02:12:54.000 And he did give us he did write a great book and give me insight to moments that I asked to be in the show, but I mean, he was going I don't know, to North Dakota or the Dakotas to someone had blueprints for an alien warship, and he was going to see these blueprints, and we're just in between takes.

02:13:20.000 We're in between takes sitting in our set chairs, and me and Paul Sparks, and we're like, hey, what what are you doing after this after we rap?

02:13:28.000 And he went on and and told us he was going to look at blueprints to this warship, and we're like, okay.

02:13:36.000 Copy that.

02:13:36.000 Wow.

02:13:37.000 Yeah.

02:13:39.000 So those are the type of guys though that wind up in cults.

02:13:43.000 Yeah.

02:13:45.000 Sweet man.

02:13:46.000 Like, very helpful, was great to us, and was very open, but I mean, a lot of majority of people are followers, right?

02:13:46.000 Uh-huh.

02:13:54.000 So well, there's a lot of people out there that have brains that don't really work that well.

02:13:59.000 Just truly.

02:13:59.000 Right.

02:14:00.000 That's just how it goes.

02:14:01.000 Yeah.

02:14:01.000 It's a very unfortunate roll of the dice, but yeah, your your brain does not let you navigate through life very well, and you need someone to hold your hand and tell you what to do, even if it's completely illogical.

02:14:12.000 Yeah.

02:14:12.000 And those people wound up becoming followers.

02:14:14.000 Yeah.

02:14:15.000 I think it was the new light.

02:14:17.000 He called it the new light.

02:14:18.000 This is a while ago, but I think it was the new light.

02:14:20.000 He Dave woke up and he got all the everyone together, and he's like, I just had uh word with God, and it's the new light something.

02:14:29.000 And uh it's where I'm gonna I'm the only one now that is going to sleep with the women. 1.00

02:14:38.000 And this guy named Norm, I think he was Australian, or anyways.

02:14:45.000 This guy was like, fuck that shit.

02:14:48.000 I'm out.

02:14:49.000 And like 20, 30 people left.

02:14:53.000 But a lot stayed.

02:14:54.000 A lot stayed.

02:14:55.000 Yeah.

02:14:56.000 You're always gonna get people that stay, and then they think that if they stay, he'll like them even more now.

02:15:01.000 Yeah and those other losers who are in the way of them getting attention from Dave, now I'm gonna be tighter.

02:15:06.000 I'm staying.

02:15:07.000 Fuck that.

02:15:08.000 Yeah, I'm team corresh.

02:15:10.000 You could fuck my wife fucking jersey on. 1.00

02:15:13.000 Nuts.

02:15:14.000 It is, man.

02:15:15.000 It is.

02:15:16.000 It's a weird thing that people have like encoded in us to look for a leader.

02:15:22.000 Very strange.

02:15:22.000 I know.

02:15:23.000 I know.

02:15:24.000 You know, I think it's just from tribal DNA.

02:15:27.000 That's what I'm never thought about that.

02:15:30.000 If when we were groups of like 150 people, the only way we could survive, you gotta listen to the wisest, most experienced person, and that's the tribal leader.

02:15:38.000 That's how it always was.

02:15:39.000 It was the greatest warrior, the one who knew where the fish were, the guys guy who knows what you're supposed to eat and not eat and where the danger is, and you that guy's gonna help you, keep you alive.

02:15:50.000 And we always have that in everything.

02:15:51.000 We have it in businesses, we have there's always like a one top monkey at the top of the park.

02:15:58.000 Fucking carrot.

02:15:59.000 It's weird, but you see it in chimpanzees too, man.

02:16:01.000 It's crazy.

02:16:02.000 It's a primate behavior.

02:16:03.000 They're all they'll all those chimpanzees, they have a tribe leader.

02:16:07.000 They have one guy who's the fucking top champ.

02:16:10.000 Yeah, he's running shit.

02:16:12.000 It's weird, man.

02:16:13.000 It's like it's encoded in us.

02:16:15.000 And so for people that aren't that smart, someone like David Koresh can totally exploit that and go, I am the leader.

02:16:21.000 And you're like, wow, I'm so glad I met you.

02:16:24.000 I was lost without you.

02:16:25.000 You are found now, my son.

02:16:27.000 You are found.

02:16:28.000 And also like that guy's so confident.

02:16:30.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:16:31.000 I'm not confident.

02:16:32.000 He did say tanks were coming and they're here.

02:16:32.000 Yeah.

02:16:35.000 So literally, that was a big moment.

02:16:38.000 That was a big moment.

02:16:39.000 Wow.

02:16:39.000 Yeah.

02:16:40.000 That must have been freaking out.

02:16:41.000 The seven seals, he was rewriting the seven seals, his final days.

02:16:45.000 Oh boy.

02:16:46.000 I know.

02:16:47.000 The whole rate on the compound thing is nuts.

02:16:50.000 Like when you see the fire coming out of the tanks, you're like, what did you guys do?

02:16:50.000 It is.

02:16:54.000 Yeah.

02:16:55.000 There's a guy that ironically was Dick DeGuren, his lawyer.

02:17:00.000 And he was speaking in Santa Fe when we were shooting this.

02:17:04.000 So I'm like, full fucking stop.

02:17:06.000 We're going to hear Dick DeGuren speak.

02:17:09.000 He's speaking about Waco.

02:17:11.000 He's speaking about his experiences as a lawyer.

02:17:13.000 Wow.

02:17:14.000 And he did.

02:17:15.000 And I went and introduced myself, and there's a crazy story.

02:17:19.000 It was Dave's mom who called him and was like, This is what's happening.

02:17:24.000 Would you go help?

02:17:25.000 Blah blah. 0.62

02:17:25.000 He was on a fishing trip, I think. 0.62

02:17:27.000 And he's like, Yeah, I'm gonna go.

02:17:28.000 So he showed up to the compound on the perimeter that was set, and he's like, I'm that guy's lawyer in that house.

02:17:36.000 You need to take me over there.

02:17:38.000 FBI puts him in a fucking tank.

02:17:41.000 And he goes to the front door in a tank.

02:17:44.000 Oh and uh the door has this big piano.

02:17:47.000 I tried getting this in the sho in the show, and we couldn't.

02:17:51.000 But um, so there's a big piano at the front door, blockade, Dave wasn't allowed to walk by the windows, all this kind of stuff.

02:17:58.000 This is deep into the 51-day standoff.

02:18:02.000 And uh Dave's right hand man and uh the uh played by Paul Sparks and another his lawyer, Harvard grad, I think.

02:18:11.000 Um to the door, and Dick's like, Oh, I see uh the bullet holes in the ceiling, couple bodies that the ATF weren't uh didn't allow you to take out.

02:18:22.000 Um you got a case here, but where's Dave?

02:18:26.000 And they show him the house and all this kind of stuff, and so they're back in the foyer and the piano's against the wall, and they're talking, and he's like, Okay, uh, I don't I want to help, but I don't know where Dave is.

02:18:41.000 And he's leaving, and he's like, You got a fucking case.

02:18:44.000 And the right-hand man just goes, Dave was in the fucking piano, listening to this whole thing.

02:18:55.000 What a psycho.

02:18:57.000 And so he got back in the tank, and Dave got briefed of their walk through there, and anyways, uh Dick DeGuerin was his lawyer on that.

02:19:06.000 What a fucking story, though.

02:19:07.000 How crazy.

02:19:08.000 And I wanted to be in that piano and shoot that.

02:19:13.000 Yeah, that would have been unbelievable.

02:19:15.000 Yeah, that would have been an important part.

02:19:17.000 I know.

02:19:18.000 It's an important part of the story.

02:19:20.000 It really is.

02:19:20.000 That's how nuts he was.

02:19:22.000 Yeah.

02:19:24.000 So scared to get shot or didn't trust sh anything.

02:19:28.000 God.

02:19:29.000 But those guys apparently in that in that tank, they were like ripping Dick DeGuren and like spitting on him and doing this kind of shit because they're like, you do know they just killed a bunch of ATF guys in that shootout as well.

02:19:44.000 And you're gonna go fucking be this guy's lawyer?

02:19:47.000 Fuck you.

02:19:48.000 Yeah.

02:19:49.000 Right so.

02:19:50.000 But the thing, like what started off the feud?

02:19:53.000 I don't even remember like who's how did bullets wind up flying?

02:19:58.000 Yeah, so it was Dave had he was selling like homemade bulletproof vests and was like had these I know.

02:20:09.000 Fucking and the ATF were kind of spiraling out.

02:20:14.000 Like their funding was about they were about to get defunded, and they needed a win.

02:20:20.000 They needed it well, what was it?

02:20:22.000 The Ridge of Ruby.

02:20:24.000 There you go.

02:20:24.000 Yeah.

02:20:25.000 So they dropped the ball huge on Ruby Ridge, right?

02:20:28.000 Yeah.

02:20:29.000 So which is at the very beginning of Waco.

02:20:31.000 And they needed a fucking win.

02:20:33.000 Here, find a cult leader into weapons, selling ammunition, I think, and bulletproof vests and this kind of stuff.

02:20:41.000 And this guy's got these kids and all this is perfect.

02:20:47.000 And that started it of just like we're gonna go get this guy.

02:20:50.000 And there's a famous tape that we put in the show too, where Dave was like, you know, why didn't you just like he did this run all the time and was kind of just out and about working on the house, running around.

02:21:03.000 He had a fucking go-kart track around the uh the compound, and he's like, Why wouldn't you just arrest me when I'm on a run when I'm on this or that?

02:21:14.000 But they needed a lot of press and they needed to get funded again.

02:21:17.000 So they made this a spectacle, and then it fucking turned into what you saw.

02:21:23.000 Like they were they wouldn't let fire trucks come and take that fire out.

02:21:28.000 That's a fact.

02:21:29.000 And then um they're playing that music of animals being like mutilated into the compound.

02:21:36.000 Um yeah, then they were flying the ATF flag.

02:21:40.000 I asked for that to be put in, but we didn't put it in.

02:21:42.000 But they're flying the ATF flag while it was burning down.

02:21:46.000 Wow, yeah.

02:21:47.000 It's legit.

02:21:49.000 Wow.

02:21:50.000 Crazy, man.

02:21:51.000 Wow.

02:21:52.000 They needed a win.

02:21:54.000 Yeah.

02:21:55.000 And then that's so dark.

02:21:57.000 I know.

02:21:58.000 I know.

02:21:59.000 Picture I-35 right here, fucking tanks, and all these armored trucks, everything going down I-35.

02:22:08.000 It's incredible.

02:22:10.000 You know, and they're just sitting right in front of of the house.

02:22:14.000 And 51 days is fucking crazy.

02:22:17.000 That is crazy.

02:22:18.000 Yeah.

02:22:20.000 Wow.

02:22:22.000 I know.

02:22:22.000 It's just hard to believe that they would do that.

02:22:24.000 But then you you read the Ruby Ridge thing, like they shot a woman while she was holding her baby.

02:22:29.000 Yeah, man.

02:22:30.000 The kid in the back, I think.

02:22:31.000 Yeah.

02:22:32.000 Yeah, the dog.

02:22:33.000 Shot a kid dog, yeah.

02:22:35.000 And for what?

02:22:36.000 I know.

02:22:37.000 For nothing.

02:22:37.000 For what?

02:22:38.000 I know.

02:22:39.000 Yeah.

02:22:40.000 It's weird, man.

02:22:41.000 It's weird.

02:22:42.000 You you could you could be an assassin for the government.

02:22:46.000 Yeah.

02:22:47.000 And even just think you're just doing your job.

02:22:50.000 But it's like this is seems pretty fucking criminal, guys.

02:22:55.000 It's a horrific.

02:22:56.000 It's just hard to believe that they wouldn't.

02:22:56.000 It's a lot.

02:23:00.000 Seventy seven, six people died.

02:23:04.000 The video's 20-something kids.

02:23:07.000 Driving over the house with a tank and shooting fire into it.

02:23:10.000 Like, and then they denied doing that.

02:23:12.000 They denied doing that with the tank, shooting fire.

02:23:15.000 But you could you could watch it.

02:23:17.000 You could watch the fire come out of the tank.

02:23:19.000 Yeah.

02:23:20.000 Horrible shit, man.

02:23:23.000 I know.

02:23:24.000 What a roll.

02:23:25.000 So when you get out of that role when you stop playing that guy, man, how long's it take before you you go back to being you?

02:23:33.000 Probably I bet you a month, six weeks till you shed it.

02:23:39.000 Yeah.

02:23:40.000 Go do something that makes you feel you and alive.

02:23:43.000 Motorcycle ride.

02:23:45.000 Something.

02:23:46.000 Get the fuck out.

02:23:47.000 Did you like dream of that guy?

02:23:49.000 Not anymore.

02:23:49.000 Oh yeah.

02:23:50.000 But you did?

02:23:51.000 Yeah.

02:23:52.000 Oh, yeah.

02:23:52.000 Yeah.

02:23:53.000 Yeah.

02:23:54.000 Your subconscious.

02:23:55.000 It's funny because it's like that's you marry yourself emotionally To said circumstance.

02:24:02.000 And so my subconscious, and I'm sure a lot of actors will say it's like you're wide open.

02:24:07.000 And so you're more vulnerable.

02:24:09.000 I'm way more emotional.

02:24:11.000 And so you just do the work and you're just your subconscious is open.

02:24:15.000 So it might your dreams.

02:24:17.000 Once I start dreaming a little fucking crazy visceral stuff, that's when I know I'm getting closer for sure.

02:24:24.000 Wow.

02:24:25.000 Yeah.

02:24:26.000 Like you're getting haunted.

02:24:27.000 A little bit.

02:24:29.000 It takes six weeks to detox you.

02:24:32.000 Yeah.

02:24:32.000 And fucking exercise the ghosts.

02:24:34.000 And then it's like you play this guy.

02:24:38.000 You know what's fucking crazy?

02:24:39.000 It was ACL.

02:24:40.000 And I was walking and prepping for Waco, and randomly, out of nowhere.

02:24:47.000 This guy is talking about Waco and that it never happened.

02:24:52.000 Like this is so random.

02:24:54.000 And I was with my buddy who's out there.

02:24:56.000 And I was like, holy shit.

02:24:58.000 What the we gotta do this story now.

02:25:02.000 Like there's people out there that believe that it's just one conspiracy theory that never happened.

02:25:07.000 That's okay.

02:25:07.000 And I was like, what?

02:25:09.000 There's people that believe everything though.

02:25:10.000 I know.

02:25:10.000 If you can figure out the conspiracy, there's a whole group of people on Reddit dedicated to it.

02:25:15.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:25:16.000 You're late to the bardy.

02:25:18.000 Any conspiracy.

02:25:19.000 Just fill in the blank.

02:25:20.000 There's there's a bunch of people that think space is fake.

02:25:23.000 It's a whole online community of people that don't believe in space.

02:25:26.000 Yeah.

02:25:27.000 Yeah.

02:25:27.000 Okay.

02:25:29.000 There's people that believe a lot.

02:25:31.000 Big.

02:25:31.000 Yeah.

02:25:32.000 Just just to say that alone just feels like.

02:25:35.000 Sorry.

02:25:36.000 Yeah, it's the people that like flat Earth is not crazy enough.

02:25:38.000 They want to take it to the next level.

02:25:40.000 The next level is space doesn't even exist.

02:25:42.000 Okay.

02:25:43.000 You know.

02:25:43.000 That's all you know when you get older and people will just straight up like when they talk at you, telling you false shit.

02:25:51.000 Right.

02:25:51.000 You're like, okay.

02:25:53.000 Usually I'll bite and be like, you're an idiot.

02:25:53.000 Okay.

02:25:56.000 This is what is actually happening.

02:25:58.000 But no, now it's like, all right.

02:26:00.000 Sometimes get it out.

02:26:01.000 Exhausting, though.

02:26:02.000 You just shut up.

02:26:04.000 That's so fake.

02:26:05.000 Yeah.

02:26:06.000 But they like double down, triple down on it.

02:26:09.000 Yeah.

02:26:10.000 Um, I just had one of those moments.

02:26:15.000 I know, man.

02:26:16.000 That's a dangerous game.

02:26:18.000 I don't read shit, which is really help me.

02:26:18.000 Yeah.

02:26:22.000 It really likes very healthy.

02:26:22.000 Oh, yeah.

02:26:24.000 Yeah, it is.

02:26:25.000 Like, yeah.

02:26:26.000 I don't read any uh reviews.

02:26:29.000 Any of that.

02:26:29.000 Good for you.

02:26:30.000 I learned the hard way, man.

02:26:31.000 I got hammered on John Carter.

02:26:34.000 Um that put me in a dark spot.

02:26:37.000 Um, but yeah, had to rebuild everything.

02:26:42.000 Um yeah, that uh you're down that tunnel, and you're just like they're not just like he's a bad actor, it's like this guy should die.

02:26:51.000 Yeah, you're a terrible person.

02:26:53.000 Yeah, it's nuts.

02:26:54.000 Personal ideas.

02:26:57.000 Yeah, like whoa.

02:26:59.000 Damn.

02:27:00.000 Fuck.

02:27:00.000 I know you're just trying to write a saucy article, but holy shit.

02:27:03.000 It's a lot of fucking sauce.

02:27:05.000 A lot of vitriol there.

02:27:06.000 Yeah, yeah, it's weird, man.

02:27:08.000 People that but that's you know, they like doing that to people they don't know.

02:27:12.000 It's it's zero accountability, it's so easy.

02:27:16.000 And now, because of social media, anybody can do it.

02:27:19.000 Yeah, I was just saying, you never used to hear people's opinions before.

02:27:23.000 You if they you had a movie in 1979, the general public either went to see it or did not.

02:27:28.000 Yeah, and it was like a word of mouth thing, and then there was like Siskel and Ebert, and whoever else is reviewing stuff.

02:27:35.000 That was it.

02:27:35.000 And if the New York Times said it was good, you'd go see it.

02:27:38.000 But now it's like fucking everybody.

02:27:38.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:27:41.000 Negative always beats. 0.94

02:27:42.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:27:43.000 You get more clicks on a negative hit, and then you know, that was the beauty of like Friday Night Lights.

02:27:48.000 Like, I never there weren't reviews really, and I was just we didn't have social fucking media.

02:27:54.000 We're s in Austin, no real producers on set or writers.

02:27:58.000 We're kind of Pete set it up so great, and you're just going there slinging, trying shit, failing, trying again.

02:28:06.000 It was such an amazing experience.

02:28:08.000 Without all the extra without any of the weight of like, is this gonna be successful?

02:28:13.000 Like what does that even mean now?

02:28:16.000 You know, yeah, they well, do they still do focus groups when they do a film?

02:28:20.000 Yes, they still do, yeah.

02:28:21.000 So that's kind of like a small, yeah.

02:28:24.000 Yeah.

02:28:25.000 It is kind of because you're like, well, who are these people?

02:28:27.000 Yeah, they might be like morons, yeah.

02:28:30.000 Like by the way, I like Oklahoma.

02:28:32.000 But there's like certain spots where you know, like you if you wanted to tank a movie, you'd do a focus group and you know, some moron community where everybody's on fentanyl.

02:28:42.000 Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:28:43.000 You guys watch this movie.

02:28:44.000 I slept through half, but I don't like that guy's hat.

02:28:44.000 Tell me.

02:28:47.000 It's did they get paid?

02:28:49.000 Is that like a job?

02:28:50.000 No.

02:28:50.000 That's a good question.

02:28:51.000 I bet they do.

02:28:52.000 I bet they do, which is then you have to factor in okay, what kind of a person is getting paid to do uh focus groups.

02:28:59.000 They might they might be a failure.

02:29:00.000 They might be a really dull-witted, dull-minded person, and they get to decide the direction of this movie.

02:29:06.000 And like I don't like the ending.

02:29:08.000 Yep.

02:29:09.000 Reshoots.

02:29:10.000 Oh, 20 million dollar reshoots.

02:29:12.000 Forty percent of the audience said they didn't like the ending.

02:29:14.000 Forty percent of the audience wouldn't pass a piss test.

02:29:17.000 Yeah, true.

02:29:18.000 Even like John Carter was like one of the highest tested movies in Disney's history.

02:29:24.000 And we got hammered, obviously.

02:29:26.000 But it's like I don't know how much that moves the needle or anything.

02:29:31.000 I think people distrust the media more than they trust the media now.

02:29:36.000 But if something sucks, like if a critic says it sucks, it still works.

02:29:41.000 Like if I see a one-star review, I'm like, oh, that movie supposedly sucks.

02:29:41.000 Yeah.

02:29:44.000 Yeah.

02:29:45.000 Like, I don't give it any other thought.

02:29:47.000 It still does work.

02:29:48.000 But if something's really good, people go, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

02:29:52.000 Fuck the critics.

02:29:53.000 Fuck.

02:29:54.000 This movie rules.

02:29:55.000 Like, look at Adam Sandler's movies.

02:29:55.000 Yeah.

02:29:56.000 The critics always hate them.

02:29:58.000 The audience is always loves them.

02:29:59.000 Yeah.

02:29:59.000 Always.

02:30:00.000 It's the most lost.

02:30:03.000 I know.

02:30:03.000 It's crazy.

02:30:04.000 Yeah.

02:30:04.000 His movies are.

02:30:05.000 He's such a sweet guy.

02:30:06.000 He's the best.

02:30:06.000 He's the nicest guy of all time.

02:30:09.000 And he's a great regular actor, too.

02:30:11.000 Uncut gems was bananas.

02:30:13.000 That movie has so much anxiety.

02:30:16.000 I was like, don't do it.

02:30:20.000 He played that guy, that gambling addict so well.

02:30:23.000 So believable.

02:30:24.000 Great directors, too.

02:30:26.000 Yeah, it's just great guy, smart move.

02:30:28.000 But but his comedies, I love his comedies.

02:30:30.000 They're fun.

02:30:31.000 And I love that I can watch it with my kids.

02:30:33.000 Like he's got they're funny.

02:30:34.000 Like Jack and Jill is funny.

02:30:37.000 It's fucking silly and ridiculous.

02:30:38.000 And Al Pacino's in love with his sister who is him.

02:30:42.000 It's funny, man.

02:30:43.000 It's a funny movie.

02:30:44.000 It's so stupid and silly.

02:30:46.000 Yeah.

02:30:46.000 But that's but the critics hate those movies.

02:30:48.000 They hate them.

02:30:49.000 Like, okay, what are you going to see?

02:30:51.000 It's an Adam Sandler movie.

02:30:53.000 This is really good at making this kind of movie.

02:30:55.000 And there if you want to go see a fun, lighthearted, silly movie.

02:30:59.000 Which we need a little more with a lot of heart to it.

02:31:01.000 Yeah.

02:31:02.000 His movies are the ones to go to.

02:31:03.000 Yeah.

02:31:04.000 But the critics hate them.

02:31:05.000 Yeah.

02:31:05.000 They don't it doesn't matter.

02:31:07.000 If people love it, that's what matters.

02:31:09.000 I mean Terminalist season one.

02:31:09.000 Yeah.

02:31:11.000 We got hammered.

02:31:11.000 Yes.

02:31:12.000 Yes.

02:31:13.000 And the people spoke, man.

02:31:15.000 Yeah.

02:31:16.000 Yeah, it didn't matter.

02:31:16.000 Yeah.

02:31:17.000 That's why I'm here.

02:31:18.000 Like, that's why Dark Wolf is dark.

02:31:18.000 Yeah.

02:31:21.000 We're doing it.

02:31:22.000 You know?

02:31:22.000 It's because people wanted to see why Ben is fucking the way he is and made that decision.

02:31:28.000 Yeah.

02:31:29.000 If it didn't, there's no way we would have got that green lit.

02:31:32.000 There's no way.

02:31:33.000 Well, because it's written by Jack.

02:31:35.000 So Jack Carr, who's a good friend of mine, who's an awesome human being, and also a SEAL, and writes and and had the goal.

02:31:44.000 This is how crazy Jack is.

02:31:46.000 Had the goal of first becoming a SEAL, getting military experiencing, and then becoming a great writer.

02:31:53.000 Like he had it in his head.

02:31:55.000 Did he really?

02:31:56.000 Yes.

02:31:56.000 He always wanted to be a SEAL.

02:31:58.000 He always wanted to serve.

02:31:59.000 So he wanted to do those things, get real life experience.

02:32:04.000 I mean, that guy has a love of history.

02:32:06.000 Incredible.

02:32:07.000 Unbelievable.

02:32:08.000 Incredible love of the world.

02:32:10.000 He's so brilliant, and his recall is phenomenal.

02:32:14.000 So but but imagine that kind of decision making.

02:32:17.000 I'm going to be a SEAL.

02:32:19.000 I'm going to go get deployed.

02:32:21.000 I'm going to get military combat experience.

02:32:24.000 And then I'm going to go write books.

02:32:28.000 This is that was his like best sellers.

02:32:28.000 Damn.

02:32:33.000 Seven or eight.

02:32:33.000 And right out of the box, Terminalist book is fucking incredible.

02:32:38.000 It's incredible.

02:32:38.000 Yeah.

02:32:39.000 But the guy prepared for it his whole life.

02:32:41.000 Like he's a voracious reader.

02:32:43.000 Voracious reader.

02:32:44.000 Reads constantly, can recommend books constantly.

02:32:47.000 He's always great about that.

02:32:49.000 And his so his first book out of the gate, it's like he'd been paring for it his whole life.

02:32:54.000 I mean, when he comes on to set, and we're shooting this episode five, he came to Budapest, and his energy, like he's like a kid in a candy store, man.

02:33:05.000 It's like I'm fucking gassed out, tired, and like just getting beat up, and here comes Carr, and it's just the light.

02:33:16.000 He just brings an energy to that set that is just like, man, we're so lucky to be here.

02:33:20.000 And you're like, you know what?

02:33:21.000 You're kind of fucking right.

02:33:22.000 We are.

02:33:23.000 Yeah.

02:33:24.000 And I just love that guy, man.

02:33:26.000 Super supportive.

02:33:27.000 Right when I got the role.

02:33:28.000 Yeah.

02:33:28.000 He's like, not pressing me.

02:33:30.000 He's like, I know you've played a SEAL before.

02:33:32.000 If you want any of my notes who Ben is, and he's like, if you want that long leash, here it is.

02:33:38.000 Like, I trust you.

02:33:39.000 Like he's been nothing but amazing with me so far.

02:33:42.000 So he's a brilliant guy.

02:33:43.000 He really is.

02:33:44.000 Yeah, it really is.

02:33:45.000 Super caring.

02:33:46.000 Yeah.

02:33:46.000 Yep.

02:33:47.000 Yeah.

02:33:48.000 Well, just a great man.

02:33:49.000 Yeah.

02:33:50.000 Like a truly great man.

02:33:51.000 Yeah.

02:33:51.000 It's it's so cool when a guy like that gets to write stories that r sh really reflect the true lives that he led, and then he knows a lot of his friends lead, and it's real.

02:34:06.000 It's like he has a an understanding of it that obviously the success of his books and the success of the series, that understanding just translates in a way like, oh, this is very authentic.

02:34:17.000 Yeah.

02:34:18.000 Even like little notes, man, I would get with the gun work and all that kind of shit, and obviously you listen, but it's just like he's he comes at you of just more excitement.

02:34:28.000 Mm-hmm.

02:34:30.000 And you don't take it personal, you can't, and you want to get it fucking right.

02:34:34.000 When you have him and Jared Shaw, who's another SEAL and Mendoza, who's a SEAL, and we got a uh what uh uh Army Ranger who writes a lot of it, like we're surrounded by these guys every day.

02:34:47.000 So if they want if anything is not authentic, you're I mean the bullshit meter is like fucking two feet away, right?

02:34:55.000 You know, right and I love that though, because they're doing a lot of my work for me, helping me, making me look like fucking Ben.

02:35:02.000 Right, right, you know, it's a complicated character, too.

02:35:06.000 Yeah, a lot of that stuff, like one of my best buddies is seal and had like 200 guys under him, fought in Ramadi and bomb specialist guy, wicked dude, and um there's a moment in the CIA room and in episode one that was written,

02:35:24.000 and then I kind of I've been hearing this from him for so long, and so it's kind of ingrained in me of just like how there's always someone to answer to, and you're never really getting the full transparent part of what they're putting you out for.

02:35:40.000 So I'd heard all these stories for like the last since loan, I met him on loan, and um, and so that scene, I was like, This is for you, man.

02:35:50.000 I'm just gonna fucking go and have at it with this CIA guy, and uh he was at the premiere and watched it and loved that beat, but it's like I get to serve you know some of these guys that they they don't get to have those moments, right?

02:36:03.000 Right, you know, and that's so fun for me to just fucking go and light them up in that room.

02:36:10.000 One of my favorite scenes cathartic, yeah, yeah.

02:36:13.000 So I steal from these guys, even like, and I get it.

02:36:17.000 I got hammered or Ben got hammered for being the twist of uh season one, right?

02:36:22.000 I'm the guy who kind of orchestrated a lot of it, and um, and I was talking to Marcus because I'm like, How the fuck am I gonna root this guy?

02:36:31.000 The seal that's like best friends with Reese, and now all of a sudden the twist is like man, I I had a hand in this.

02:36:40.000 I I'm the guy that it put you guys down that tunnel on that op and your whole fucking platoon died, uh, for the most part, and um I just literally it was like a little moment that I had with Luttrell where he was talking about going back and dying with his boots on, and I was like, really settle into what that means.

02:37:02.000 This warrior is just decidedly going to die over there serving.

02:37:06.000 It's beautifully tragic, and I was like, that is where I hung my hat with Ben of like how I can root this crazy twist of like I'm making this decision for you, but you're gonna go die with your boots on instead of this fucking you're gonna die rotting in this hospital bed, no insurance, your family, all this kind of shit.

02:37:26.000 I'm like, I'm gonna take that decision for you.

02:37:29.000 So that's where I rooted Ben for season one.

02:37:32.000 Wow, yeah.

02:37:33.000 And then I go and open uh the Mike Murphy museum uh with Dan and Marcus and a lot of other seals, obviously.

02:37:42.000 And uh a lot of the seals were like, I fucking get it.

02:37:46.000 You know, but a lot of people just were like, How could you?

02:37:50.000 And I get that part too.

02:37:51.000 But it was just like both things are true.

02:37:54.000 Yeah, truly.

02:37:55.000 Yeah.

02:37:55.000 Both things are true.

02:37:56.000 How could you and I get a human being?

02:38:00.000 Yeah.

02:38:01.000 And you know, that's that's one of the reasons why the show is so interesting.

02:38:05.000 Because people are fucking super complex.

02:38:08.000 And how fucking gray it all is.

02:38:10.000 Yep.

02:38:11.000 And how it goes back to like you're in mourning of a buddy, uh, you you broke this promise, his family's dead, and now I'm on an op and I get in front of the guy that killed this guy's family.

02:38:22.000 I'm gonna fucking put him down.

02:38:24.000 Fuck this.

02:38:25.000 I'll take you the beauty of Ben too in this is he's accountable for it.

02:38:29.000 Like I'll take it.

02:38:31.000 Take my trident then.

02:38:32.000 I do it all over again, which is a beautiful thing.

02:38:36.000 And I think he does.

02:38:37.000 Like it's it's a very it's an emotional reaction that you know frays his life and uh the other character uh uh race character, he gets his trident taken.

02:38:51.000 But it's that's one thing we were talking about earlier of just like it's so fucking gray, and in these really split decision moments that you have these guys aren't fucking robots out there, it's like they're emotional, they're fucking trained like better than anybody, but at times they have to make these decisions that is like okay, you're gonna fucking put those girls on a black market or sell them or put them in the sex trade, you don't get to live anymore.

02:39:21.000 I'm gonna do that.

02:39:23.000 But that's a beautiful thing too.

02:39:25.000 Yeah, and people can relate to it.

02:39:27.000 Because if you were in that scenario, what would you do?

02:39:30.000 And most people would like to believe that would say you're not gonna live anymore.

02:39:33.000 Yes, yeah, exactly.

02:39:34.000 We have these talks on set all the time.

02:39:37.000 You're on American primeval.

02:39:40.000 We can romanticize the 1850s, or at least I did at the beginning of like this guy's a fucking mountain man.

02:39:46.000 This is sick, like he's a motherfucker.

02:39:49.000 Like, if I if you see me on the river in eight eighteen fifty-two, and you're like, I want your jacket.

02:39:56.000 You're gonna just come up and kill me and take my jacket.

02:39:59.000 Yeah, like that's how fucked up the eighteen hundreds were back then. 0.78

02:40:04.000 Lawless, lawless.

02:40:05.000 And so we started shooting, and uh I was like, we're shooting at 10,000 feet up there, and you're cold, and we're still spoiled, obviously.

02:40:14.000 Your trailer's 50 feet away, but it's like fuck this.

02:40:19.000 I'm like, there is nothing in me that would want to be in the 1850s.

02:40:24.000 Nothing, nothing.

02:40:25.000 No, I can't believe people made it through.

02:40:27.000 I can't either.

02:40:28.000 It's hard.

02:40:29.000 I can't either.

02:40:30.000 And those people were living in the lap of luxury.

02:40:32.000 Can people compare to people who lived 4,000 years before?

02:40:35.000 Oh my god, yeah.

02:40:37.000 200 years earlier.

02:40:39.000 Yeah.

02:40:40.000 I mean, it's like what we were talking about earlier.

02:40:40.000 It's nuts.

02:40:42.000 Civilization is super recent. 0.89

02:40:44.000 I mean, it's not, obviously, there's ancient Egypt and all that stuff, but I mean what we're dealing with right now is super recent.

02:40:51.000 Yeah.

02:40:52.000 Relative safety, relative security, yeah, relative, you know.

02:40:57.000 I mean, do you do you when you go hunt your Utah, backcountry, wherever you're going, you're gonna be in the shit.

02:41:03.000 It's gonna be beautiful and quiet, and like I live for that.

02:41:08.000 Yeah, well, that's really why Montana's a great place to hunt too.

02:41:11.000 Yeah, and Montana is a truly wild place.

02:41:14.000 Yes.

02:41:15.000 I mean, yeah, outside of Bozeman.

02:41:17.000 Yeah.

02:41:17.000 Right.

02:41:18.000 Thirty 30 minutes outside.

02:41:20.000 Yeah, 30 minutes outside.

02:41:22.000 You've got like a truly beautiful, incredible, unjust.

02:41:29.000 If you've never experienced the mountains, like the true mountains, especially when there's some snow on the ground and the the winds whistling around.

02:41:37.000 It's like it's majestic.

02:41:39.000 It's like the most extraordinary work of art that nature created.

02:41:44.000 There's something about like mountains.

02:41:44.000 Yeah.

02:41:48.000 It like awe-inspiring.

02:41:50.000 It's like, wow.

02:41:51.000 Makes perspective sinks into you.

02:41:53.000 You're in the moment.

02:41:54.000 And it's weird that very few people live near him.

02:41:57.000 I know, right?

02:41:59.000 You get there, When you get there, you're like, oh my God, I want to see this every day.

02:42:03.000 It's like then you're on a flight to New York and two days.

02:42:07.000 I lived outside of Boulder for a while.

02:42:08.000 Oh, beautiful.

02:42:09.000 And uh it was like that every day.

02:42:11.000 It's like you're just driving it through these mountains.

02:42:13.000 Like, this is incredible.

02:42:15.000 Yeah.

02:42:16.000 Like this view that you have is like a vitamin.

02:42:18.000 It really is.

02:42:19.000 Your soul.

02:42:20.000 Yeah.

02:42:21.000 Look at this place.

02:42:22.000 And it's it's not a coincidence that people in mountain communities are chilled out.

02:42:27.000 Yeah, you're right.

02:42:27.000 It's not a coincidence.

02:42:28.000 No.

02:42:29.000 They're surrounded by this overwhelming majesty of nature.

02:42:33.000 And it's humbling.

02:42:34.000 Yeah, it is.

02:42:35.000 It makes you a little chiller.

02:42:37.000 Yeah.

02:42:37.000 Totally.

02:42:38.000 And I think for me too, it's so good for the brain for all those reasons, but also it's just like if I'm sitting around feeling sorry for myself or whatever it is, bored.

02:42:48.000 It's like it's your fucking fault if you're bored out there.

02:42:51.000 Right.

02:42:52.000 There's a thousand hikes.

02:42:54.000 Go get into wildlife.

02:42:55.000 Go to the national park, go for a fucking walk.

02:42:57.000 Anything.

02:42:58.000 Fix your perspective.

02:42:59.000 Truly.

02:43:00.000 Yeah.

02:43:00.000 And it does.

02:43:01.000 It does.

02:43:02.000 After uh intense roll or whatever it is, once I land in Bozeman, man, I get on the bike or whatever, go fly fish.

02:43:10.000 It's like it's it's a beautiful thing.

02:43:13.000 And there's less people there.

02:43:14.000 So it's like you don't feel the buzz.

02:43:18.000 Yeah.

02:43:19.000 Relax.

02:43:20.000 Yeah.

02:43:22.000 I just bought a $35 fucking protein shake before I came here.

02:43:26.000 In Austin?

02:43:26.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:43:27.000 I was like I look up.

02:43:32.000 Yeah, it's like I don't know, probably like koala DNA that's gonna give me hard for the next seven days or something.

02:43:39.000 Grass fed tallow.

02:43:41.000 Yeah.

02:43:42.000 Where did you say how's it?

02:43:44.000 How do they charge 35 bucks for a smoothie? 0.76

02:43:46.000 That seems a lot of people.

02:43:47.000 I keep adding shit.

02:43:48.000 I was adding proteins, yeah.

02:43:50.000 Creatine.

02:43:51.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:43:52.000 Yeah.

02:43:53.000 But I was like, what's happening?

02:43:56.000 Yeah, it's not Montana.

02:43:57.000 But even Austin, like compared to where I lived before, I lived in LA and living here is like there's only two million people.

02:44:04.000 It's so much more.

02:44:04.000 Yeah.

02:44:05.000 Yeah.

02:44:06.000 Yeah.

02:44:06.000 Like what they think is traffic is adorable.

02:44:09.000 Yeah.

02:44:12.000 LA's insane. 0.78

02:44:12.000 It's true. 0.78

02:44:14.000 It's just a terrible way to live.

02:44:16.000 It really is.

02:44:16.000 Yeah.

02:44:17.000 It's a terrible way to live.

02:44:18.000 Yeah.

02:44:18.000 And I think I get how people used to want to live there because it was the center of you know the TV business and the comedy business, but it's it's not worth it, kids.

02:44:28.000 It's not good for soul. 0.71

02:44:28.000 No, no. 0.71

02:44:30.000 Nothing's being filmed there anymore.

02:44:32.000 It's rare.

02:44:32.000 It's just weird, right?

02:44:34.000 Yeah.

02:44:34.000 It is.

02:44:35.000 How did that happen?

02:44:36.000 I don't know.

02:44:36.000 How did they fuck that up?

02:44:37.000 I know.

02:44:38.000 How did you fuck up the one spot where everybody wanted to move to to be an actor?

02:44:43.000 You fucked up that spot?

02:44:44.000 Yeah.

02:44:45.000 And they have everything.

02:44:47.000 Mountains, beaches, fucking.

02:44:48.000 You can get to the mountains to the shore in two hours.

02:44:51.000 Yeah.

02:44:52.000 You're you're up in Big Bear.

02:44:53.000 Yeah.

02:44:53.000 You're down to Santa Monica.

02:44:55.000 Two hours.

02:44:55.000 Yeah.

02:44:56.000 Studios, everything's there.

02:44:56.000 It's nuts.

02:44:58.000 Yeah.

02:44:59.000 And they fucked it up.

02:45:00.000 Yep.

02:45:01.000 Brutal.

02:45:02.000 What the fuck is happening?

02:45:04.000 I don't know.

02:45:06.000 I don't know.

02:45:06.000 I'd blame politics, but I think there's a lot of other stuff going on too.

02:45:10.000 I just think the people running it.

02:45:12.000 It take probably takes exceptional people to have real vision and learn how to keep stuff together.

02:45:17.000 Yeah.

02:45:18.000 I don't know.

02:45:19.000 I don't know either.

02:45:20.000 Not a big fan of LA.

02:45:21.000 Yeah.

02:45:22.000 I lived here for 17 years.

02:45:24.000 Did you love it here?

02:45:25.000 I did.

02:45:26.000 I love the lake life.

02:45:26.000 Yeah.

02:45:28.000 It's nice.

02:45:29.000 It's fucking amazing.

02:45:30.000 It's a chilled city too.

02:45:31.000 It's like genuinely good people here.

02:45:33.000 Yeah.

02:45:34.000 There are normal people.

02:45:35.000 Yeah.

02:45:35.000 You know?

02:45:36.000 In LA, everybody is like a failed actor, wanting to be an actor, trying to get on a reality show.

02:45:43.000 Looking to be a TikTok influencer.

02:45:45.000 So everybody's got something.

02:45:47.000 And they want something from you.

02:45:48.000 Always.

02:45:49.000 Yeah.

02:45:49.000 Always.

02:45:50.000 And every connection they make is like a networking thing.

02:45:52.000 Every new friend becomes someone is an asset.

02:45:55.000 An asset.

02:45:56.000 Yeah, because it's like very transactional.

02:45:58.000 Gross.

02:45:58.000 Yeah.

02:45:59.000 It's gross.

02:45:59.000 Yeah.

02:46:00.000 Yeah.

02:46:00.000 Well, listen, brother, you're a very interesting guy, and uh you got some awesome stories, and you're a really great actor.

02:46:06.000 And so I've been a fan for a long time.

02:46:07.000 Likewise.

02:46:08.000 So this was really fun.

02:46:09.000 Thank you.

02:46:09.000 Thanks for having me.

02:46:10.000 My pleasure, brother.

02:46:11.000 Um, tell everybody one more time, Terminalist, Dark Wolf.

02:46:14.000 It's available now on Amazon.

02:46:16.000 On Amazon.

02:46:17.000 And uh, I know the terminalist killed it for Amazon. 0.92

02:46:17.000 Which is great. 0.92

02:46:20.000 Yeah.

02:46:21.000 We're number one right now.

02:46:22.000 That's amazing.

02:46:22.000 Yeah, thanks.

02:46:23.000 That's awesome.

02:46:24.000 It's a great show.

02:46:25.000 All right.

02:46:26.000 My pleasure.

The Joe Rogan Experience - September 18, 2025

Joe Rogan Experience #2381 - Taylor Kitsch

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