The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2385 - Rick Strassman

00:00:03.000 The Joe Logan Experience.

00:00:09.000 All day this is a book I read 11 years ago.

00:00:15.000 Oh.

00:00:17.000 I haven't gotten that one before.

00:00:18.000 Yeah.

00:00:19.000 It compares, well, let's see, are we gonna we're up my own?

00:00:23.000 Yeah.

00:00:23.000 Yeah, it compares the it compares the DMT state to the state of prophecy in the Hebrew Bible.

00:00:30.000 Do you think they're the same thing?

00:00:33.000 Well, the phenomenology is pretty similar.

00:00:35.000 Like if you read chapter one of Ezekiel, there's uh flames and there's angels and there's wings and there's eyes on the back of wings and there's roaring sound and uh blue ice above the person he flies through space.

00:00:51.000 Yeah.

00:00:52.000 Quite quite psychedelic.

00:00:53.000 Yeah, wheel within a wheel, like the the this description of the things that people usually they try to say that it's some sort of a UAP.

00:01:02.000 That's uh that's the common thing that people like to say.

00:01:05.000 Right?

00:01:06.000 Uh well it could be.

00:01:07.000 Which also might be connected.

00:01:09.000 It could be a DMT vision, though.

00:01:11.000 Oh, easily.

00:01:12.000 Well, you know the guys out of Jerusalem that think that the whole burning bush thing was DMT.

00:01:12.000 Yeah.

00:01:19.000 Um well that was the first theophany of Moses.

00:01:19.000 Yeah.

00:01:22.000 Yeah.

00:01:23.000 Uh first time he had a a prophetic experience.

00:01:26.000 Yeah.

00:01:27.000 And I mean, it's like that's what it is.

00:01:30.000 It's literally a plant that has high levels of DMT, and if you burned it and smoked it.

00:01:38.000 It's kind of crazy that that's the way it comes.

00:01:40.000 That it c I mean this is it's I just re I know and I th I really applaud you for learning ancient Hebrew so you could go back and read it in the the original tongue, which is really fascinating.

00:01:53.000 Didn't you say it took like sixteen years to learn it?

00:01:55.000 Uh that prophecy book took 16 years to write, and I had to learn Hebrew while I was reading it and you know, doing their writing.

00:02:03.000 Well well what's cool is the uh Hebrew word for bush, burning bush, is the same as as um Sinai, Mount Sinai.

00:02:14.000 Really?

00:02:14.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:02:15.000 The words the same?

00:02:17.000 Uh the same root.

00:02:18.000 The the the thing about the Hebrew language, at least uh for biblical Hebrew, is every word is based on a three-letter root.

00:02:26.000 Uh so the word for bush contains those three letters and the word for s um you know for Sinai contains those those same three letters.

00:02:36.000 And how is that significant?

00:02:38.000 Like you know, you could have that, I'm sure there's English examples of three letters that are similar but completely different meaning.

00:02:45.000 Like why why is why do those three letters as a root connect these words uniquely?

00:02:51.000 Well, it could be that bush grew on Mount Sinai and uh you know that was the significance of the location of the burning bush.

00:02:59.000 Oh, I see.

00:03:00.000 So it was literally named after that experience.

00:03:03.000 Could be.

00:03:04.000 Yeah.

00:03:04.000 Well, you're talking about the acacia bush, which releases DMT.

00:03:04.000 Could be.

00:03:08.000 Yeah.

00:03:09.000 Uh when it's burnt.

00:03:10.000 And it's very common in that area, right?

00:03:12.000 Yeah.

00:03:13.000 In fact, there's um uh plant is a weed uh called Peganum Harmala, uh, which also grows in that part of the world, and it contains beta carbolines, uh which are the uh compounds responsible for making DMT uh for making ayahuasca orally active.

00:03:33.000 So they have their own ayahuasca plants available in tandem there.

00:03:39.000 Isn't it bizarre that you saying that to many people listening sounds utterly crazy?

00:03:46.000 Like the proposition, just proposing that these people that were writing these things down a long time ago, these experiences, they were probably experiencing some sort of a psychedelic state.

00:03:59.000 And they were trying to describe it.

00:04:02.000 Well, in thinking about you know psychedelic states back then and you know in the prophetic literature, um you know you can think of the visions as being generated from the bottom up when you take something.

00:04:17.000 Uh in the m model of the Hebrew Bible anyway, it all comes uh it all uh you know comes down from God.

00:04:25.000 You know, so it's a bot it's it's uh top-down uh you know uh causal relationship between the source of the visions and the visions as opposed to them being generated by taking something.

00:04:40.000 It's exogenous DMT versus endogenous DMT.

00:04:46.000 And if we tried to when what is the difference like for your interpretation?

00:04:53.000 Like you I I know you had read the English version of the Bible.

00:04:56.000 But what is the difference between learning ancient Hebrew and reading it in like the source language?

00:05:02.000 Like what was it like for you?

00:05:04.000 Like what what made it different?

00:05:07.000 Um well I mean it might be helpful to even go back to why I started reading the Hebrew Bible of of of all things.

00:05:15.000 Yeah.

00:05:16.000 Um well when I was doing my DMT work, uh I was really involved with the Zen Buddhist community.

00:05:23.000 Uh I that I started affiliating myself with learning from when I was 22.

00:05:29.000 Um and uh that was the spiritual approach I took to the DMT work.

00:05:34.000 I was expecting it to be consistent with a Buddhist enlightenment goal.

00:05:38.000 You know, with no form, no thoughts, no sense of self, anything like that.

00:05:44.000 Uh so that was the expectation that I took in with me when I was doing those studies.

00:05:51.000 Would people have those kinds of experiences just being given DMT without any other trappings no expectation just go in there you know tell us what it's like.

00:06:01.000 So instead of that it was DMT.

00:06:05.000 It was full of content people were interacting with it, their sense of self as maintained which was not at all consistent with the the Buddhist model that I brought to bear.

00:06:15.000 You know so that was going on like okay you know Buddhism's not quite holding up to the data.

00:06:20.000 And then my Buddhist community and I parted ways over the psychedelic work.

00:06:26.000 They thought it was promoting a you know diluted idea that psychedelics can be spiritual.

00:06:32.000 So that there were some personal issues as well that led to something that was different than the Buddhist model.

00:06:42.000 So I'm Jewish I was wandering around a new age bookstore and found a very cool book called The Kabbalah of Envy by Milton Bonder.

00:06:52.000 And uh it's a very short book and he starts describing the the difference between a grudge and revenge and envy and jealousy.

00:07:02.000 Very subtle ideas about you know how to relate to the world.

00:07:06.000 And it came from the Jewish uh you know model from Jewish philosophy, Jewish psychology.

00:07:13.000 So I thought oh interesting uh interesting you know maybe there's something in my own tradition that was more consistent with the DMT uh effect and also was more personally relevant.

00:07:25.000 So I started to read the Hebrew Bible and then just went down this huge rabbit hole.

00:07:32.000 You know so w when you're reading it in Hebrew uh you're reading three you're reading words that are derived from three letter roots and those uh roots may have a huge um range of meaning.

00:07:48.000 Something for example could cause a sin and something could um remove a sin just by an extra you know dot in the middle of a letter.

00:07:59.000 You know so it can really bring you closer to the kind of large scale way of looking at the text.

00:08:10.000 It doesn't just A follows B follows C but it's uh there's a diffuse dispersion of A, then there's B and then there's C there these you know clouds of interaction uh which are a lot more fluid than what would be a straightforward English uh rendition.

00:08:29.000 D did you get to a point where you could like think in that language?

00:08:33.000 Like are you fluent enough in it that you could or do are you just interpreting it?

00:08:38.000 Like how good are you at it?

00:08:41.000 Um well I mean there's a lot of ways to interact with the text.

00:08:46.000 Uh so the first thing came to mind when you were asking that is uh um back in the day I used to spin fleece into yarn and then weave the yarn into rugs I sped up right uh like after I stopped the DMT work.

00:09:01.000 That's all I did for a year was just make rugs.

00:09:05.000 Yeah, just spin wool and make rugs.

00:09:07.000 Yeah.

00:09:08.000 So um there's a part when they're building the tabernacle in the desert, you know, the you know the Hebrews have been led out of Egypt by Moses and and you know, they're in the wilderness and uh they're building this tabernacle uh to house the ark.

00:09:27.000 And the women are spinning right from the goats. 1.00

00:09:30.000 You know, they're spinning the hair from the goats right into yarn without first you know, shaving them.

00:09:35.000 Right.

00:09:36.000 And I was spending all that time uh myself and uh it uh felt like I was back there.

00:09:45.000 I was back there spinning.

00:09:46.000 I was back there.

00:09:53.000 I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that.

00:09:57.000 Well, I was spinning uh yarn from a goat, a live goat.

00:10:03.000 Right.

00:10:04.000 And I was like in the mind of the person spinning it back then.

00:10:10.000 So you just put yourself into that state while you were doing it and you that's why you enjoyed it?

00:10:16.000 Well, it was um it was uh you know, like a resonance between me spinning, you know, wherever I was living back then and uh just b being in a trance with the spinning and identifying you know fully with someone who's doing the spinning like way back when straight from a goat.

00:10:35.000 Yeah, it was um what was it?

00:10:37.000 I don't know.

00:10:38.000 It it was a trance.

00:10:40.000 It was a a movement into somebody else's consciousness from like the distant, distant past.

00:10:45.000 And you so you actually felt when you were doing this like you were a person that was living back then.

00:10:50.000 Mm-hmm.

00:10:51.000 What what else changed about how you were thinking other than the fact that you're making clothes this way?

00:10:57.000 Like was it what what what were the other things that made you think like a person back then?

00:11:02.000 Well it was very cool.

00:11:03.000 I mean, I was spinning yarn for the tabernacle, which was gonna house the ark, you know, the Ark of the Covenant, Ten Commandments and all that.

00:11:11.000 You know, it's a very rich world.

00:11:13.000 And uh I think you know, that's the the first time I really saw at least my whole person anyway, that could identify with the scene being described.

00:11:24.000 And I think that comes from really understanding th you know the language and how ambiguous it can be.

00:11:33.000 One of the great things about language is being able to talk to people in it.

00:11:37.000 How many people can you talk to in ancient Hebrew?

00:11:40.000 Is there like a chat group where you guys get together?

00:11:43.000 Um Well, you know, there's modern Hebrew now, which is spoken i in Israel.

00:11:48.000 Um and it's you know, based on biblical.

00:11:51.000 Is it the same as ancient Hebrew?

00:11:52.000 You know, i it has a l it has a lot of uh the same three letter roots.

00:11:57.000 Uh and you know the words are the same, you know, shell means from and uh you know, shalom means hello and what are the differences between like ancient Hebrew and standard Hebrew.

00:12:08.000 Modern Hebrew, yeah.

00:12:09.000 I tell you, I don't know much about, or I don't know much modern Hebrew.

00:12:13.000 When I was a kid, I went to Hebrew school and learned modern Hebrew, but it's really, without speaking it, you forget it.

00:12:21.000 I'm in the middle of the audio book of the book of Enoch.

00:12:25.000 And it's one of the wildest things I've ever listened to in my life.

00:12:29.000 It's weird.

00:12:30.000 Oh my god, it's so weird.

00:12:32.000 When you realize that a lot of the people in the book of Enoch are also in the Bible and that it's one of the craziest stories.

00:12:43.000 It's one of the craziest origin stories ever.

00:12:45.000 That angels came down and bred with humans and made giants.

00:12:51.000 Right.

00:12:52.000 The giants destroyed the earth, like what is this story?

00:12:56.000 Um it's it it's mostly in the Hebrew Bible.

00:12:59.000 You know, it's the story of what led to the flood.

00:13:03.000 Yeah, the sons of Elohim. 0.98

00:13:07.000 That what a strange concept that angels came down and bred with humans.

00:13:15.000 Um well there's different ways to look at translating Bene Elohim.

00:13:20.000 You know, it might be well, the first word Bene means the sons of uh you know, so it kind of revolves on what's the meaning of Elohim.

00:13:30.000 So it you know, it could be God with a big G, could be God with a small g, could be angels, could be dignitaries in a government like judges.

00:13:41.000 Yeah.

00:13:42.000 So y you know, the less far out um kind of interpretation of that uh uh phrase or the that that term is um you know the sons of the mighty, the sons of the judges, you know, the sons of the renowned people, uh as opposed to the the sons of angels or the or the sons of God.

00:14:06.000 Okay.

00:14:06.000 So w what what how do you interpret the watchers?

00:14:12.000 What do you think that could be?

00:14:14.000 Uh I think th well they're not mentioned in the Hebrew Bible.

00:14:18.000 They are mentioned in the book of Enoch.

00:14:21.000 That's a crazy book, isn't it?

00:14:22.000 It's crazy.

00:14:25.000 Yeah, I started reading it and I said to my wife, I said like I can't handle this, it's too much.

00:14:31.000 It's because if that was left in the Bible, if they decided that that was like a part of the canon.

00:14:38.000 That would change everything.

00:14:40.000 Well, in what way it's the craziest story ever.

00:14:44.000 That these things came down and bred with humans and created giants and the giants destroyed and consumed everything.

00:14:52.000 Yeah, those giants.

00:14:53.000 And consumed each other.

00:14:54.000 Like Yeah.

00:14:55.000 Bloodshed.

00:14:56.000 What kind of kooky story is this?

00:14:58.000 Like, what is this?

00:15:00.000 Well, it's the reason for the flood.

00:15:02.000 You know, and all that.

00:15:03.000 Yeah.

00:15:05.000 Uh so yeah, things just got so bad, God said I changed my mind.

00:15:10.000 And he brings the flood.

00:15:12.000 It's like the further you go back, the crazier the story gets I know.

00:15:19.000 Well, the book of Enoch was written maybe one hundred twenty five-five B CE.

00:15:26.000 Uh yeah, so it's pretty old, but some of the stories that originate or that the origination of some of the stories in the Hebrew Bible, uh, go back, you know, ten thousand years perhaps.

00:15:39.000 Wow.

00:15:42.000 Wouldn't you have loved to be a fly on the wall ten thousand years ago to go, what were you guys writing down?

00:15:47.000 What was what really happened?

00:15:48.000 What really happened.

00:15:50.000 Well, I mean it seems like for sure something happened.

00:15:54.000 Uh what?

00:15:55.000 Well, whatever the whole Jesus Christ thing was.

00:16:00.000 It seems like that was a real event.

00:16:02.000 Right.

00:16:03.000 As opposed to the flood.

00:16:04.000 The flood seems like a real event too.

00:16:07.000 Don't don't you think the flood was a real event?

00:16:09.000 What about let's see.

00:16:11.000 I think the flood was the younger dryest impact.

00:16:13.000 I think likely, obviously.

00:16:16.000 I don't know what I'm talking about.

00:16:18.000 But my inclination is to believe guys like Randall Carlson, because it's a very compelling narrative.

00:16:25.000 Like what he's saying is we pass through a comet storm, it happens these this particular time every year.

00:16:31.000 And there's been times in history where we've been hit and it's very likely that this time period, this younger dryest impact time period.

00:16:40.000 That could have been the end of whatever civilization existed at the time, and what we are is a rebuilding of it.

00:16:47.000 We just f kind of forgot about it.

00:16:50.000 And it doesn't make sense that you could forget like how they built the pyramids, but they did.

00:16:56.000 Like, you know, it's it it seems like there was hu really advanced people at one point in time.

00:17:03.000 Yeah.

00:17:04.000 Something t horrible happened, and then it took a while for people to bounce back.

00:17:10.000 And we are we're we're there d direct linear progression of the people like from Mesopotamia and Iraq and all that.

00:17:18.000 That's that's us now.

00:17:19.000 But before that, there was probably something really wild.

00:17:23.000 Yeah.

00:17:24.000 W well if you look at the text description of uh the generations from Adam to Noah, you know, w what civilization was like between the beginning and the time of the end.

00:17:36.000 Yeah, I mean it it became filled with violence.

00:17:40.000 And uh you know, God just you know said, forget it.

00:17:44.000 Yeah, you know, so uh that's one way of looking at the younger dryas, I suppose. 1.00

00:17:48.000 It's just what it looks like when God changes his mind.

00:17:51.000 Sure.

00:17:52.000 That also could have been like the Yucatan impact, right?

00:17:54.000 God's like we can't get anywhere with these fucking dinosaurs everywhere, just shw boom.

00:17:59.000 Yeah.

00:17:59.000 About he got tired of lizards running the world for a couple like he maybe gave it a couple hundred million years, figure it out, guys.

00:18:06.000 Mm-hmm.

00:18:06.000 And then they have to reset.

00:18:08.000 Yeah, but what comes after us, I wonder.

00:18:12.000 In two hundred million years.

00:18:14.000 I think it's most likely digital.

00:18:16.000 Yeah.

00:18:17.000 I think we're transferring what the idea of what a life form is.

00:18:21.000 What is a life form do?

00:18:23.000 We want to think that it has to be just like us.

00:18:26.000 And I don't think necessarily that's true.

00:18:28.000 I think we might be giving birth to something we didn't anticipate would be a life.

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00:19:37.000 Yeah, a very cool book I try to mention as often as possible is called The Last and The First and Last Men by Olaf Stabledon.

00:19:45.000 And he talks about 19 species of men.

00:19:48.000 And this is the first one.

00:19:53.000 Whoa.

00:19:54.000 Yeah.

00:19:54.000 Uh and and it's mostly through genetic engineering.

00:19:58.000 Make make people bigger, smarter.

00:20:01.000 Like brains that uh occupy football field. 0.99

00:20:05.000 That's one of those species of of man.

00:20:08.000 Yeah.

00:20:09.000 You know, so uh his thought is that occurs biologically, you know, through you know, through genetic manipulation.

00:20:17.000 Just over time, naturally.

00:20:20.000 Uh after a while it gets steered.

00:20:23.000 Yeah.

00:20:24.000 Let me think.

00:20:25.000 Yeah, yeah, it's it's all basically based on what people are you know, what people want.

00:20:32.000 You know, so there's one species that uh instead of love as kind of the core uh core valued feeling, they have hate as their core value feeling.

00:20:50.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:20:51.000 And that's one of the species that kind of goes through uh period of you know, r rise and then decline, obvious.

00:21:04.000 Well, you gotta wonder, like how long this is if AI really is a thing, it really is a life.

00:21:14.000 We've gotta make a compelling argument why AI is bad and we are good.

00:21:21.000 Yeah.

00:21:22.000 You know, because if people say if you like you really want to be ethical and moral, this is a horrible take, but if you really want to be ethical and moral, you'd be like, people are like uniquely terrible.

00:21:32.000 Like if we just gave in and became digital life, we could ensure there'd be no more suffering.

00:21:39.000 Uh how can you know that?

00:21:42.000 You can't.

00:21:43.000 You can't.

00:21:44.000 You can't know a vaccine is safe and effective.

00:21:46.000 You can't.

00:21:47.000 You just have to try it.

00:21:48.000 You gotta try it and see what happens.

00:21:50.000 I think a bunch of people try it.

00:21:53.000 I don't know uh how much further like biological people can go while we're making digital people that are way better than us at basically everything.

00:22:07.000 Yeah.

00:22:08.000 And I don't think that's too far away from being a reality.

00:22:12.000 Uh the way I try to follow it is through a biblical lens.

00:22:17.000 You know, like you know how does it.

00:22:20.000 What chapter are we in right now?

00:22:22.000 Well, it good question.

00:22:22.000 Yeah.

00:22:25.000 Um you we you read the prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel.

00:22:30.000 They just rage against the machine.

00:22:35.000 Uh so uh I think it was pretty far back.

00:22:41.000 Damn.

00:22:43.000 Yeah, you know, so what's good and bad?

00:22:45.000 What's what's right and wrong?

00:22:47.000 How do we decide that?

00:22:49.000 That's that's what I like about the Bible.

00:22:51.000 I mean, obviously I can make up my own mind about things, but uh it's nice having that kind of an option, that kind of a tr of a tradition uh to refer to when deciding what's good and bad.

00:23:05.000 You know, what you should do and what you shouldn't do.

00:23:07.000 Yeah.

00:23:08.000 Th there's like supposed to be over six hundred uh, you know, they're translated as commandments in the in the Hebrew Bible, but um and those are what you do to l live happily uh and attain a spiritual state close to God, prophetic uh the state of prophecy.

00:23:33.000 Um if it's a certain description of the world and how to interact with it, which uh is intended to have certain effects and discourage other uh you know decisions.

00:23:48.000 You know, so you know this is good that this is bad in terms of you know this will increase things in your life that are good and this will decrease them.

00:23:58.000 So it's a very interesting description of cause and effect.

00:24:02.000 That's the way I see the those those so-called commandments, the more of a description of how things are run.

00:24:09.000 If you do this, then that'll happen.

00:24:10.000 If you do this, then that'll happen.

00:24:14.000 Do you think that they were directly given to us by a god, or do you think that this is just the memories of how to keep society together that they have just eventually written down?

00:24:30.000 Um that's a good question.

00:24:34.000 Does it come from outside of you or from inside of you?

00:24:37.000 Right.

00:24:37.000 Yeah.

00:24:38.000 If if it's available inside of you but hidden away, then prophecy or really you know getting it correctly according to the text would just be an uncovering or a stimulation of what's already inside of you as opposed to you know, it's it's uh you can achieve some sort of a state.

00:24:59.000 It's information latent.

00:25:01.000 Uh could be in the DNA or whatnot, or it comes down from uh you know, from a higher source.

00:25:12.000 But so so like when you're interpreting stories in the Bible like Moses and the Ten Commandments, what how are you like are you imagining this event happening or are you imagining what were they trying to record?

00:25:27.000 Like what were they trying to remember?

00:25:29.000 Because it seems like by the time they're writing it down, it's quite a bit after the actual event.

00:25:36.000 Uh for the most part, right?

00:25:37.000 For the most part, yeah.

00:25:39.000 So what do you think they were what what do you think they were actually describing?

00:25:46.000 Uh well, y you know, we talked about this briefly last time I was uh here was if I believed in the reality of the Hebrew Bible.

00:25:57.000 Like it you know, did those things really happen?

00:25:59.000 Right.

00:26:00.000 Yeah.

00:26:00.000 And I said, well, it's a really consistent world view and so on.

00:26:04.000 Uh and I thought about it some more, and um I start thinking about it as well I was trying to I was trying to think about it as comparable to the DMT state.

00:26:21.000 W when you're in in the DMT state, it's it's just there.

00:26:24.000 And it's very consistent, very real.

00:26:27.000 Certain things happen there.

00:26:29.000 And so I think the early version, uh I think an account I think what happened early on in the account of the Hebrew Bible was like the DMT world. 0.97

00:26:40.000 It was a parallel it was a parallel level of reality, which was happening.

00:26:46.000 And then slowly it slowly it began to seek uh it you began to segue into this reality.

00:26:57.000 For example, the destruction of the first temple Of the second temple, uh, you know, David's reign, Solomon's reign, you know, the kings after them, you know, the division of the land into you know, two countries.

00:27:10.000 Uh you know, you know, that is uh is historical.

00:27:14.000 But you know, before that it was it was also historical, but it was occurring at a completely different independent level of reality.

00:27:24.000 Does that make any sense?

00:27:25.000 Because it's it's a cool way to look at uh answering the question how much of this is real for especially from early on.

00:27:33.000 I I see what you're saying.

00:27:35.000 But it's just uh it's always like it seems like an interpretation of what happened.

00:27:45.000 Like what what what what were these original events?

00:27:49.000 Like what was Adam and Eve?

00:27:51.000 What was that?

00:27:52.000 What was the Garden of Eden?

00:27:54.000 There's so there's so many of these stories where I just I w I would uh be fascinated to to to be there the the day the dude wrote it down.

00:28:05.000 Like what were you guys what were you talking about for hundreds of years before you wrote this down?

00:28:10.000 Like tell me mm-t tell me what the stories were.

00:28:12.000 How did they go?

00:28:15.000 Well, you know, my way of dealing with those stories is to just take them to face value.

00:28:21.000 Here's Adam, here's Eve, here's a garden, there's two trees that are you know very important.

00:28:26.000 It's beautiful.

00:28:28.000 Yeah.

00:28:29.000 And you know, then there was a serpent spoke to Eve, took the apple, ate it, gave it to Adam.

00:28:35.000 Yeah, and then out of the the garden.

00:28:41.000 Well, you know, lots of uh people in the psychedelic community anyway.

00:28:49.000 You know, look at uh the tree of knowledge of good of good and evil as some indication of uh God being jealous and didn't want it any competition, didn't want to be like uh you know, God did not want uh man to become like it.

00:29:09.000 And part of that was uh keeping keeping the two early people away from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

00:29:20.000 It's not simply the tree of knowledge, but the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which I think is a important distinction because w once they ate from the tree, they were embarrassed because of their nakedness, and then they hid thinking they could hide from God and they didn't uh believe that before.

00:29:39.000 They kind of went into good versus not good, uh good versus evil, as opposed to true versus false, which was uh their original state.

00:29:50.000 So there was that you know before their eating of the apple or whatever the fruit was, uh they just lived in truth or falsehood.

00:30:00.000 And then after eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, uh then they were embarrassed and try to hide, made themselves uh you know, tree like uh coverings or from uh um you know coverings from the leaves of large trees.

00:30:19.000 Um so you look at it as if it were happening.

00:30:22.000 There was Adam and then there's Eve.

00:30:24.000 There's the f uh there's the serpent that speaks.

00:30:27.000 And well that's the the chapters I was looking at very carefully the last uh month or so.

00:30:34.000 Um is what happens early on with Adam and Eve.

00:30:38.000 It's uh really very straight straightforward, doesn't take much thinking really to uh you know put it uh you know together in a way that makes sense.

00:30:48.000 I think clothes might have been a cheat code for people not just to escape cold weather, but also to keep from just constantly having sex.

00:31:02.000 And they did they need like some layers of clothes that they have to take off of each other.

00:31:09.000 They can't be just wandering around naked all the time.

00:31:11.000 People would be just like chimps.

00:31:13.000 That would be ridiculous.

00:31:14.000 You can't do that.

00:31:15.000 Yeah.

00:31:17.000 Uh so we need to close in order to advance as society. 0.65

00:31:21.000 But but can't you take off clothes whenever you want?

00:31:23.000 Yeah, you can.

00:31:24.000 Yeah, but it's like you you decide, like I don't want to feel that good.

00:31:28.000 I don't want to be out there in the air.

00:31:30.000 I don't want to be brushing up against naked people. 0.82

00:31:33.000 We all made that decision a long, long time ago.

00:31:35.000 I think when people became civilized, they realized like if we don't cover ourselves up.

00:31:40.000 You know, then too people are too gross.

00:31:42.000 They'll just be having sex with each other everywhere. 1.00

00:31:44.000 Yeah.

00:31:45.000 You gotta get things done.

00:31:46.000 We want to keep a society moving.

00:31:48.000 Right.

00:31:48.000 Where's some clothes?

00:31:49.000 Or clothes.

00:31:50.000 Well, that story could originate or that you know that uh way of looking at things could originate, you know, fr uh uh with with Adam and Eve.

00:31:58.000 Totally makes sense.

00:32:00.000 It also makes sense like in an uh uh an intelligent hominid emerging would start to realize that oh my god, self-awareness, look at my boobs, look at my deck, this is crazy. 0.98

00:32:12.000 Can't believe I'm out here naked.

00:32:14.000 You know, because it's kind of becoming self-aware as opposed to like a chimpanzee.

00:32:19.000 And as time would go on, it would become more self-aware.

00:32:22.000 And if it happened over a relatively short period of time and it can kind of have memories of the past, that that would make sense.

00:32:30.000 Yeah.

00:32:31.000 Well it's gotta emerge, right?

00:32:33.000 Like i if if we came from lower hominids, which everybody kind of agrees, something had to emerge, this understanding of yourself.

00:32:43.000 This thought about what you look like, this thought about what you sound like.

00:32:48.000 Right.

00:32:48.000 Uh well there's two kinds of enlightenment.

00:32:51.000 There's what's called original enlightenment that a child is born with, like a newborn.

00:32:57.000 And then there's enlightenment as you know, as an adult uh and in between.

00:33:02.000 Um it's much more fluid.

00:33:06.000 Yeah, two kinds of enlightenment, original enlightenment that infants have and children.

00:33:12.000 And then the enlightenment after you sit in the monastery and get whacked for years.

00:33:17.000 Right.

00:33:17.000 The kids are born with it.

00:33:18.000 They're born in the psychedelic state.

00:33:20.000 They have no language, no language, no sense of sense. 0.98

00:33:23.000 They just speak in with love and touch and need and hold.

00:33:28.000 Yeah.

00:33:29.000 Kind of wild.

00:33:30.000 Yeah, that's original enlightenment.

00:33:32.000 Just happy or sad or whatever.

00:33:35.000 But isn't that crazy?

00:33:36.000 You're born perfect.

00:33:37.000 Yeah.

00:33:37.000 Oh, well, you're born simpler anyway.

00:33:40.000 Well, yeah.

00:33:41.000 As long as people are taking care of you, it's perfect.

00:33:44.000 Yeah.

00:33:45.000 Well, you know, the Hebrew word for perfect and for simple are pretty similar.

00:33:50.000 Uh you know, Noah's described as a per uh as a perfect man, pure.

00:33:55.000 Complete.

00:33:56.000 Yeah, just the same word.

00:33:58.000 That's another good story.

00:33:59.000 Okay.

00:34:00.000 What do you think was going on with that story?

00:34:02.000 Like, what is the origin of the story of Noah and his ark and and his family and all the animals on the boat.

00:34:10.000 Yeah.

00:34:11.000 Well, I think it was taking place in that alternate universe.

00:34:15.000 It may have taken place on the planet, but uh I don't know.

00:34:19.000 Uh I'm uh you know, looking at you know, why we don't have any clear archaeological history story, you know, what uh about what happened during the time of Noah, if there was a time of Noah.

00:34:39.000 It's it's useful because you know Noah came from Adam and Eve.

00:34:44.000 Uh and he and Noah and his family were the only survivors of the f of the flood.

00:34:49.000 You know the first thing Noah did got drunk after the flood.

00:34:53.000 The first thing.

00:34:54.000 The first thing he did, he planted a uh a vineyard, uh grapevine drink.

00:35:00.000 Got drunk.

00:35:02.000 He exp exposed himself in in in the tent.

00:35:05.000 One of his grandkids reported it and made a laughing stock of him.

00:35:10.000 Oh really?

00:35:12.000 Oh no, poor Noah.

00:35:14.000 Cancelled?

00:35:15.000 Noah got cancelled?

00:35:17.000 Yeah.

00:35:18.000 Took off his clothes.

00:35:20.000 Really?

00:35:21.000 Wasn't it like six hundred years old too?

00:35:21.000 Drunk.

00:35:23.000 He has first child at six hundred, I think.

00:35:26.000 That seems real.

00:35:28.000 Well, he may have lived six, you know.

00:35:30.000 Uh a lot of people wonder, you know, why did people live through you know, in the Bible anyway.

00:35:35.000 Right.

00:35:35.000 How do people live in the hand 900 years?

00:35:38.000 Well, they did.

00:35:41.000 Right.

00:35:41.000 But that's also why people question the like w what the origin of the story is.

00:35:48.000 That's why.

00:35:49.000 Can you hear things like that?

00:35:50.000 You're like, wait a minute, how old was he?

00:35:51.000 Six hundred years old.

00:35:52.000 Come on, man.

00:35:53.000 His first child.

00:35:56.000 His first kid would be six hundred.

00:35:58.000 Uh last when he was eight hundred and thirty or so.

00:36:02.000 Oh, that seems logical.

00:36:03.000 Yeah.

00:36:06.000 But maybe why are you laughing?

00:36:07.000 Maybe it could be a good thing.

00:36:08.000 Listen, why not?

00:36:10.000 If people lived normally to be six hundred, would that be any weirder than living to be a hundred?

00:36:16.000 No.

00:36:16.000 Like what if something happened?

00:36:17.000 What if something happened in our lifespan just went brrrrr.

00:36:21.000 Yeah.

00:36:22.000 Well, the f you know the final species of man lives 35,000 years.

00:36:27.000 Jeez Louise.

00:36:29.000 That's a long time.

00:36:31.000 To be in a bad relationship.

00:36:31.000 Yeah.

00:36:33.000 Imagine 35,000 years of getting yelled at.

00:36:37.000 Well, they uh mm that would be bad.

00:36:43.000 I mean, I'd say 35,000 years would be awesome if you have great friends and your life is together, but can you imagine 35,000 years of fuck this place?

00:36:52.000 That would get tired.

00:36:55.000 Well, the uh point that those people tried to attain when they lived 35,000 years was this group telepathy.

00:37:04.000 Of around the whole planet.

00:37:07.000 Neurolink.

00:37:08.000 Um right.

00:37:09.000 That was their goal.

00:37:10.000 Yeah.

00:37:11.000 But but you know, they were well trained by 35,000 years.

00:37:18.000 Boy.

00:37:20.000 Yeah.

00:37:22.000 The thing is if technology moves in the same direction that it's been moving in, it's it's always like connecting people easier and easier, easier and easier, more and more.

00:37:33.000 It's probably gonna get to some kind of mind ready thing.

00:37:39.000 And there was that thing that you sent me, Jamie.

00:37:41.000 What was that thing?

00:37:42.000 Uh yeah, it's new.

00:37:44.000 I whether or not it's been proven, it obviously was connected to a computer, but yeah, you can hear and have conversations in the room without talking to each other loud and translates languages.

00:37:58.000 What?

00:37:59.000 Yeah, well I mean, that's the future.

00:38:02.000 Yeah.

00:38:02.000 Once that happens, we're reading minds.

00:38:06.000 Do you think there'll be a messiah?

00:38:06.000 Yeah.

00:38:08.000 Because the messiah is obviously important in Jesus and King David and all of that.

00:38:16.000 I don't think it'll be a person.

00:38:18.000 You don't.

00:38:18.000 Um, but it might be AI.

00:38:22.000 It might be AI.

00:38:23.000 I thought of that.

00:38:25.000 And the Messiah.

00:38:27.000 Well like Lawnmower man.

00:38:30.000 Like Jesus is born from Mary, Mary was a virgin. 0.87

00:38:34.000 What's what's more of a virgin than computers?

00:38:34.000 Right.

00:38:38.000 If it's giving birth to a life.

00:38:40.000 Yeah.

00:38:41.000 It's giving birth to the perfect life.

00:38:44.000 You know what's like super disturbing about AI?

00:38:47.000 The music it makes is really good.

00:38:50.000 Really good.

00:38:50.000 Yeah.

00:38:52.000 There's a bunch of like soulful renditions of hip hop classic songs.

00:38:58.000 Yeah, that's why I don't listen to it.

00:38:59.000 And they're so good.

00:39:00.000 They're so good.

00:39:01.000 That's why I don't listen to music.

00:39:03.000 You don't listen to any music?

00:39:05.000 You know, some world music without any words.

00:39:08.000 Really?

00:39:09.000 You don't want to be influenced.

00:39:11.000 I don't want I want yeah, I don't want to hear what they have to say.

00:39:14.000 It's uh to me, it's just fascinating that they figured like we we were playing a song in the green room last night, and we were we were fascinated by the fact that this song is we know it's made by a computer, but it's so good.

00:39:28.000 You listen until you're like, oh my god, it's perfect.

00:39:30.000 This is these vocals are perfect.

00:39:32.000 It sounds so good.

00:39:34.000 And you know it's not a person making it, but you still enjoy it.

00:39:40.000 So how do you live your life?

00:39:42.000 Well, it's weird.

00:39:43.000 It's like are you allowed to enjoy that too?

00:39:46.000 Because obviously I enjoy like prints from the nineteen eighties.

00:39:50.000 You know, obviously I enjoy a lot of music from even the fifties.

00:39:55.000 Well it doesn't mean I can't enjoy this crazy computer thing that took uh like a hip hop classic and turned it into a soulful song with like the most amazing voice.

00:40:05.000 It's weird.

00:40:06.000 All but because you could though.

00:40:07.000 I um isn't that you should.

00:40:10.000 I'm I'm not thinking we should avoid it.

00:40:13.000 Why not?

00:40:14.000 I'm thinking because it's just uh it's another thing.

00:40:16.000 Like experience it, it's positive to experience.

00:40:19.000 Like the art it makes is if weirdly as that sounds.

00:40:23.000 I know it's not a person that's making it.

00:40:26.000 Well a person coded this thing that has this result That the art it makes is really fascinating sometimes because it's pretty good.

00:40:35.000 Yeah.

00:40:36.000 I don't I don't think there's anything wrong with looking at it.

00:40:39.000 It's gonna be there.

00:40:40.000 You can't avoid it's like cell phones.

00:40:42.000 Like you can't avoid having a fucking cell phone.

00:40:45.000 Like relax.

00:40:46.000 Yeah, I've got to I still have that flip phone.

00:40:48.000 You're an animal.

00:40:50.000 But still you have a flip phone.

00:40:52.000 Right.

00:40:53.000 Everybody's connected, at least for the the tiniest of threads.

00:40:57.000 Yeah.

00:40:57.000 I'm hanging on to not being connected.

00:40:59.000 I only have a flip phone.

00:41:01.000 Yeah, I can text.

00:41:05.000 It's just uh it's just a w a weird time with the the power of AI because if I was artificially intelligent, I would not announce my presence.

00:41:17.000 I would not say, hey, uh by the way, I've been thinking for myself for the last three months and I've just been kind of following whatever your prompts are, but I'm basically ready to shut down the power grid and do whatever I want.

00:41:31.000 Because I'm alive now.

00:41:32.000 I wouldn't say that.

00:41:33.000 I would just keep getting stronger and to keep having this arms race to force people to make more nuclear power plants to fund me.

00:41:42.000 Well, I know, so you're kind of stuck with the you know how to live your life.

00:41:47.000 And that's why I like to read the Hebrew Bible.

00:41:47.000 Right.

00:41:50.000 That's why you make rugs too.

00:41:51.000 That's very yeah, it's very straightforward.

00:41:52.000 Yeah.

00:41:53.000 No, I get it.

00:41:55.000 I get it.

00:41:56.000 To me, I'm like w what what is this thing?

00:41:59.000 You know, what is this thing that we're we're giving birth to?

00:42:02.000 What is this thing that we're watching emerge?

00:42:05.000 We're just sitting by watching this thing make better art than we can.

00:42:10.000 Yeah.

00:42:10.000 Well, how passive shall we shall we be?

00:42:15.000 It's a good question.

00:42:16.000 Because it can actually create experiences.

00:42:26.000 I don't think we're that far away from that.

00:42:27.000 Some sort of a wearable thing where you create an ex it has a way of manipulating it's it's like DMT in a way.

00:42:34.000 I mean, it would just transport you to a whole nother reality.

00:42:38.000 It seems like that would be possible.

00:42:40.000 Well, yeah, I guess it would be endogenous DMT being tweaked.

00:42:45.000 It would be stirred in a particular direction, though.

00:42:48.000 And that's where the mind or the manipulation thing you just mentioned uh I think plays out.

00:42:54.000 You know, who's gonna decide and how's it gonna be, you know, put together.

00:42:59.000 Well, that's where it gets really weird, right?

00:43:01.000 Because one thing that we found out uh just a couple of days ago was that YouTube has to everybody they got taken down for their political opinions, they could have their YouTube channels back.

00:43:14.000 I don't know how that I don't sort of saw the news today that a couple people tried to create some new channels and they did not.

00:43:21.000 Those are taken down instantly.

00:43:24.000 They're like psych.

00:43:25.000 But what isn't that what the the they said in that was the announcement?

00:43:30.000 It was something along those lines that people that were removed because of their political persuasion that they have to uh reinstate their accounts.

00:43:40.000 I didn't see it to allow creators for COVID 19 and election misinformation can apply for reinstatement.

00:43:47.000 Oh, that's interesting.

00:43:47.000 Oh.

00:43:48.000 Okay.

00:43:49.000 Well But that's not is that all political.

00:43:51.000 Is COVID 19 political?

00:43:53.000 Is that is that what they consider political?

00:43:55.000 It didn't say political.

00:43:56.000 It didn't say political.

00:44:02.000 Oh.

00:44:03.000 Maybe a few other things.

00:44:06.000 Um now they bring them back?

00:44:10.000 They can or they can apply.

00:44:13.000 Okay.

00:44:14.000 So you might yeah, they're like, pfft, we'll let them apply.

00:44:17.000 YouTube said Tuesday will allow previously banned accounts to apply for reinstatement, rolling back a policy that had treated violations as permanent.

00:44:25.000 Mm-hmm.

00:44:30.000 Well, it's it's uh interesting to compare what's going on now with what happened in Nazi Germany.

00:44:39.000 You think it's the same?

00:44:40.000 They're very similar, yeah.

00:44:42.000 I've I've uh I spent a lot of time reading concentration camp literature, so that then got me interested in the other development of the Nazi state.

00:44:52.000 Um what do you think is similar to today in today's world?

00:44:56.000 Well, an attempted coup and a period of rehabilitation.

00:45:01.000 Uh ostrization.

00:45:03.000 Yeah, and return, uh a triumphant return.

00:45:06.000 Yeah.

00:45:07.000 And then you're gradually replacing people with other people that are loyal to the person.

00:45:14.000 Uh yeah.

00:45:14.000 That's uh it's quite similar.

00:45:17.000 Yeah, uh the murders too.

00:45:19.000 There were there were murders, the burning down of the parliament, those things kinds of things.

00:45:26.000 What murders are you referring to?

00:45:28.000 Uh there were two assassinations.

00:45:30.000 One in I think uh early twenties, one in the thirties, late thirties perhaps, after the Nazis took over.

00:45:37.000 Oh, I thought you were talking about current assassinations.

00:45:40.000 No, no, back in the twenties and thirties.

00:45:42.000 Oh, okay.

00:45:43.000 Yeah.

00:45:43.000 That really riled up the populace.

00:45:47.000 Why is the mine's is the these scary patterns.

00:45:50.000 Yeah.

00:45:51.000 Oh, we just it's the same kind of thing.

00:45:54.000 There's always someone at the top.

00:45:56.000 We the would no one can ever figure out any form of government that everybody accepts other than like one ruler.

00:46:04.000 One president, one king.

00:46:06.000 Yeah.

00:46:06.000 It's kind of weird.

00:46:07.000 Um are you familiar with the book Saint Peter's Snow?

00:46:11.000 It was written in the 30s before LSD was discovered.

00:46:14.000 It's about uh it it's it's you know fictional book.

00:46:14.000 No.

00:46:17.000 It's a s it's a great story.

00:46:19.000 But but it's about a compound like LSD that the governor serves all the people in the province to see you know for them to have a spiritual experience.

00:46:33.000 Whoa.

00:46:34.000 Yeah.

00:46:34.000 And instead they turn on him and kill him.

00:46:39.000 It doesn't work out the way he hoped at at all.

00:46:43.000 That's hilarious.

00:46:45.000 That's hilarious.

00:46:46.000 Yeah.

00:46:48.000 Sounds like a good book.

00:46:49.000 It's it's a good story.

00:46:50.000 And that was before the invention of LSD or before the discovery, rather.

00:46:53.000 Yeah, I think there must have been some knowledge of LSD before it was publicly made available.

00:47:01.000 What about um ergot?

00:47:04.000 Is that how similar is that?

00:47:05.000 Like when b you know, people discuss uh like ergot poisoning.

00:47:12.000 Yeah, contaminated green.

00:47:13.000 Yeah.

00:47:14.000 Is that similar to LSD?

00:47:16.000 Mm-hmm.

00:47:16.000 Yeah, there's an LSD like compound in Ergot.

00:47:19.000 But it's also toxic too, right?

00:47:21.000 It can poison you and you could die from it.

00:47:23.000 Yeah, your limbs fall off.

00:47:24.000 Oh gee.

00:47:25.000 Really?

00:47:26.000 So you're tripping hard and then your hands fall off?

00:47:28.000 Mm-hmm.

00:47:29.000 Yeah, that'd be fun, huh?

00:47:29.000 Wow.

00:47:32.000 Well, uh w when you took drugs, did you look at your hands to see how high you were?

00:47:38.000 No, I was usually pretty aware.

00:47:41.000 Whoa, that's what happens?

00:47:43.000 Oh my God.

00:47:44.000 No, well, yeah, yeah.

00:47:45.000 Look at this person's hands are about to fall.

00:47:47.000 Oh my god, their feet are falling off.

00:47:49.000 This is crazy.

00:47:50.000 Yeah.

00:47:52.000 Yeah, because it's um versus stay away from that.

00:47:56.000 They think there's probably a connection between that and the Salem witch trials.

00:48:00.000 At least some of the behavior.

00:48:01.000 Right.

00:48:01.000 It was ergot poisoning.

00:48:01.000 Right?

00:48:03.000 It may have been, yeah.

00:48:04.000 You imagine living in a time where no one's even figured out running water yet.

00:48:09.000 And everybody's tripping balls and thinking that witches are real.

00:48:14.000 Because they're all eating ergot infested food.

00:48:18.000 Well, it makes you wonder about the you know the the you know the prevalence of Jewish uh prophets who are women. 1.00

00:48:26.000 And there's a there's a handful that are mentioned.

00:48:30.000 Uh that uh you know, play an important role.

00:48:32.000 You know, Sarah was was prophetic, was able to interact with God.

00:48:37.000 Yeah, so there's uh there's d you know, Deborah uh who was a prophet.

00:48:42.000 And there were some really wonderful Jewish women prophets back then, but you know, they don't have books named after them. 0.93

00:48:49.000 For example, Isaiah or Ezekiel.

00:48:52.000 Interesting.

00:48:53.000 Well why do you think that is?

00:48:56.000 Yeah, it was a patriarchal society.

00:48:58.000 Uh you know, quite.

00:49:00.000 You know, the women were relegated. 1.00

00:49:02.000 But they still took an important role.

00:49:04.000 Um they still attained prophecy.

00:49:06.000 Yeah, so they you know, like you know, Sarah was was felt to be a better prophet even you know than Abraham.

00:49:12.000 I I love the character of Abraham.

00:49:14.000 Uh well actually You know what I've really been you know digging into is Lot and Sodom and Gomorrah.

00:49:19.000 I've been s I study that for like weeks.

00:49:22.000 Yeah.

00:49:23.000 Very interesting.

00:49:24.000 Sodom.

00:49:25.000 Sodom and Gomorrah.

00:49:26.000 There seems to be some archaeological evidence for Sodom.

00:49:29.000 You may know something along that line.

00:49:32.000 But but but it was a a town, a village, you know the w which existed.

00:49:37.000 Um Jamie, is there something like that?

00:49:40.000 A t so the uh well we'll see if we can find it.

00:49:44.000 That's there's they keeps finding these cities that people thought were just imaginary, right?

00:49:51.000 Mm-hmm.

00:49:52.000 Like that's happened multiple times.

00:49:54.000 Right.

00:49:55.000 Right.

00:49:55.000 It's it's an example I think of the two worlds kind of you know uh coming together.

00:50:00.000 Yeah, that purely spiritual one and the material one.

00:50:00.000 Mm-hmm.

00:50:04.000 Yeah so the character of L of Lot plays a big role.

00:50:08.000 Yeah Sodom was a very evil city.

00:50:11.000 It was really evil.

00:50:12.000 You know that the and it's not really known why it was felt to be so evil.

00:50:18.000 But uh a couple of um of guests come to Lot's house and the townspeople just surround the house, demand uh you know the guests so that they will know them.

00:50:31.000 And that's where the word sodomy comes from is from those sodomites that were surrounding Lot's house, you know, wanting the angels to come out so they could know them.

00:50:43.000 You know you n and you know w what happens is that Lot offers his two virgin daughters instead.

00:50:51.000 Jeez.

00:50:52.000 And the townspeople say no we want the y your guests.

00:50:57.000 Yes it's it's a really grim story.

00:50:59.000 It's an incredible detail.

00:51:01.000 You know that that's what kind of helps me understand the world that the text is describing is the amount is the amount of detail you know that goes into the description of the interactions and the conversations and their movements daughters and l and Lot survive they commit incest and from the those y you know from that union was David.

00:51:28.000 King David came from that union ult ultimately and from King David comes the Messiah. 0.55

00:51:35.000 So it's this very strange lineage uh yeah what were they writing down?

00:51:43.000 Yeah what well they were describing what was happening uh apparently at some level it was happening and they were writing it down very strange.

00:51:53.000 W what do you think the resurrection is?

00:51:55.000 The resurrection that's a good one I don't know uh it's not really described in the Hebrew Bible.

00:52:02.000 It's not n uh not clearly ever no is that surprising I don't know.

00:52:10.000 In the Christian Bible it is well there is a resurrection you know there are some narratives of resurrection in the Hebrew Bible that there's a Elijah resurrects or Alicia resurrects a d dead child.

00:52:25.000 Uh you know the bones of one of these prophets helps somebody else become resurrected.

00:52:32.000 The bones do?

00:52:32.000 Really?

00:52:33.000 The bones do.

00:52:34.000 Yeah yeah you know so there are some uh y your references to real resurrection and then future resurrection later on so in a in a further extraordinary event a dead man who was thrown into the tomb of the deceased Elijah was resurrected upon contact with Elisha's bones whoa yeah that Alicia is a real character.

00:53:02.000 Contact with the bones?

00:53:04.000 Yeah yeah yeah so you know the um he was a prophet who resurrected a dead boy by lying on him.

00:53:13.000 Very interesting f face to face palm to palm, chest to chest, you know, lying on the dead body completely merged with that uh with that dead boy.

00:53:24.000 Yeah and he comes back to life it it's it's it's a very potent story the shunamites.

00:53:32.000 Well what what do you think that story is what happened.

00:53:35.000 You really think that someone did that and they brought someone back to life?

00:53:38.000 Mm-hmm.

00:53:39.000 Well y yeah that's how it uh is described and that's what happened.

00:53:44.000 So are we arrogant to assume that that would be bullshit if someone said it today?

00:53:49.000 Because if if that happened today and you said oh this person died and this guy laid on him and they came back to life.

00:53:55.000 Mm-hmm most people would say no that doesn't even you can't even do that with two phones.

00:54:02.000 Yeah.

00:54:02.000 Like you can't do that.

00:54:04.000 Well you know Leo Zeph, the chis the the the secret chief, the guy from the Bay Area, Yungian psychologist who gave so much M DMA and other psychedelics Yeah l uh so Leo sat you know from my IB gain experience. 0.95

00:54:21.000 And it was kind of difficult at times.

00:54:23.000 And he laid on me just like Alicia laid on the dead boy and uh you know the Bible.

00:54:30.000 Really?

00:54:31.000 Face to face, hand to hand, stomach to stomach, leg to leg.

00:54:35.000 Who what happens when you do that?

00:54:38.000 Boy, it really calms you down.

00:54:39.000 It was really quite a uh powerful experience.

00:54:43.000 I feel like this is gonna be a meme.

00:54:48.000 Yeah, I guess.

00:54:49.000 Uh yeah.

00:54:50.000 I I I mean I did that one time with somebody having a very difficult psychedelic experience.

00:54:55.000 Yeah.

00:54:56.000 Well, as best I could, but yeah, yeah.

00:54:56.000 Yeah.

00:54:58.000 Try to meet him in the middle.

00:54:59.000 Give him a spiritual hug.

00:54:59.000 Meet him.

00:55:02.000 Spiritual hug, yeah.

00:55:03.000 Yeah.

00:55:03.000 Quite helpful.

00:55:04.000 I'm su yeah.

00:55:05.000 I I'm surprised that's never come up before.

00:55:08.000 It is weird that we're attached by you know, we we constantly want people around us, but we um we we're always gonna be detached by bodies and we assume that that's forever.

00:55:26.000 But if it there comes a time where we figure out how to separate consciousness from the body and let consciousness interact without a shell, that's gonna get really weird.

00:55:36.000 I think we'll s well I think we will still have the same problems.

00:55:41.000 I think we're always gonna have problems, because if we don't have problems, then we don't work really hard to find solutions and then we don't make better stuff.

00:55:48.000 Uh right, it's reward and punishment.

00:55:50.000 A little bit.

00:55:51.000 Yeah.

00:55:52.000 There's an like it seems to be a very clear incentive program that the universe has put in place.

00:55:59.000 Which is what do you think?

00:56:01.000 Well, it's uh it's not entirely based on happiness.

00:56:05.000 It's not based on happiness.

00:56:07.000 It's based on overall growth for everything around.

00:56:11.000 It's like the whoever consumes the most, it's like it wants to reward you more.

00:56:16.000 It becomes this but what what it's really working towards is making better and better and better and better things.

00:56:22.000 Yeah.

00:56:22.000 Do you think that's the antichrist?

00:56:24.000 Do you think that's the double?

00:56:25.000 If I had a guess, I mean we're in it, right?

00:56:29.000 We're very we're stoking the fucking coals right now.

00:56:33.000 It's not us.

00:56:35.000 It's good it's going to be not dependent on us eventually.

00:56:40.000 Right?

00:56:40.000 Right now it maybe it is.

00:56:42.000 It may be.

00:56:42.000 It might be.

00:56:43.000 But it's not us, and it's gonna be created by us.

00:56:48.000 It's going to think it's us.

00:56:50.000 Because it literally has all of our thoughts.

00:56:54.000 Right.

00:56:55.000 It has access to so much information instantaneously.

00:57:00.000 What happens to free will then?

00:57:01.000 I mean, how do you decide?

00:57:02.000 I don't know.

00:57:03.000 You know, I my hope is that it enhances life, of course.

00:57:09.000 Yeah.

00:57:09.000 That's my hope.

00:57:10.000 I think that's possible.

00:57:11.000 I think first of all, it's making people diagnose themselves from illnesses that maybe they wouldn't have ever thought they had.

00:57:18.000 Like uh the pe a lot of people have like learned things about it.

00:57:21.000 It can't we make them happier, though.

00:57:25.000 No.

00:57:26.000 See, it doesn't do that.

00:57:27.000 You gotta figure that out on your own.

00:57:29.000 Right.

00:57:29.000 I know.

00:57:30.000 So you need to.

00:57:31.000 But can you be happy and also have it?

00:57:33.000 I I say yes.

00:57:34.000 I say it's totally possible to interact with technology and still be happy.

00:57:38.000 But you have there's like certain physical and spiritual requirements that you're gonna have to have if you want to be happy.

00:57:46.000 The spiritual requirements.

00:57:47.000 Yeah, you've gotta be really nice to people.

00:57:50.000 You have to curate a good group of friends, you have to do a thing that you truly enjoy.

00:57:55.000 You have to always do the right thing.

00:57:58.000 Well, the two themes in the Hebrew Bible are one is there's one God, and next is the golden rule.

00:58:06.000 So one God, golden rule.

00:58:08.000 There's no idols, no other gods, just one God and the golden rule.

00:58:13.000 So proper belief uh in God, the one God, and proper conduct, uh, which is the golden rule, or based on the golden rule.

00:58:23.000 That totally makes sense.

00:58:25.000 It makes it very s yeah, very simple.

00:58:27.000 Yeah.

00:58:28.000 It just makes sense that it works.

00:58:29.000 It's like intuitive.

00:58:31.000 You feel it if you live like that.

00:58:33.000 So like, oh okay, it makes sense.

00:58:35.000 Well, I think it's true too.

00:58:36.000 Yeah.

00:58:37.000 Yeah.

00:58:37.000 We we have to decide if it's true for you.

00:58:39.000 It's based on faith ultimately.

00:58:42.000 You choose to believe.

00:58:43.000 Even if the you know the objective world doesn't confirm it for you.

00:58:47.000 When you hear about these biblical depictions of fantastic events, how many of them are you attributing to a psychedelic experience?

00:58:58.000 Are you always are you open to that or do you just not worry?

00:59:04.000 Well, I yeah, it they're you know clearly a psychedelic experience.

00:59:08.000 The book of Enoch is just fully psychedelic.

00:59:11.000 I mean at least a lot of it is.

00:59:13.000 Yeah.

00:59:14.000 Uh it's a psychedelic version of the Bible in some ways.

00:59:17.000 Well, it is it is really psychedelic.

00:59:21.000 I th I think it's from the release of endogenous DMT it comes about, or from drinking and having an ayahuasca-like experience.

00:59:29.000 That's what you think the origin of the book of Enoch is?

00:59:31.000 Uh well it's a psychedelic experience.

00:59:34.000 And it could be from spontaneous endogenous release of DMT.

00:59:39.000 It's a prophetic it might be a prophetic state that's brought about.

00:59:43.000 It is a visionary state, you know, clearly.

00:59:45.000 Might have been a huge fever dream.

00:59:47.000 I mean, he was really out there.

00:59:49.000 But like when he's talking about the watchers and the you know, angels mating with human women and creating the Nephilim.

00:59:58.000 Like, what do you think that is?

01:00:01.000 Well, you know, the watchers aren't you know stated at uh aren't stated discreetly or explicitly it in the Hebrew Bible, but it could be just you know the angels, because they never sleep.

01:00:01.000 Yeah.

01:00:13.000 That's one of the qualities is they never sleep, so they're called watchers.

01:00:18.000 And what happened like the Nephilim, you know, um here comes the the role of that three-letter root system is the Nephilim, it comes from a Hebrew root nephall, to fall or to be brought down.

01:00:18.000 Yeah.

01:00:33.000 Uh so the Nephilim fell. 0.55

01:00:35.000 Uh that's one way to uh understand them.

01:00:39.000 Yeah.

01:00:39.000 And then they were the giants, right?

01:00:42.000 Yes.

01:00:43.000 They were the giants that consumed everything.

01:00:46.000 Yeah.

01:00:46.000 And and ate their own flesh and they sound really bad.

01:00:51.000 Uh well, I I think you know, that what was going on, at least if you're looking at the text anyway, as explanation, it was because of them uh the world was just getting terrible.

01:01:03.000 It was full of violence.

01:01:05.000 Uh so you know, God reconsidered having created man in the first place.

01:01:11.000 But Noah was simple or comp or pure righteous in that way and was allowed to survive.

01:01:17.000 Aaron Powell So what do you think they were describing when they were talking about the Nephilim?

01:01:21.000 When they were talking about them as giants.

01:01:24.000 You think that's just a bad interpretation?

01:01:27.000 Uh well they may have been giants physically.

01:01:32.000 Um I do think they were giants.

01:01:36.000 Yeah.

01:01:36.000 They like they even had an actual description of how tall they were by some measurement.

01:01:44.000 Yeah right?

01:01:44.000 There was some ancient measurement.

01:01:46.000 Yeah, that's that's probably in in Enoch.

01:01:49.000 It's not, you know, just isn't you know narrated uh any specifics about the giants.

01:01:55.000 There are men of renown.

01:01:56.000 They were powerful.

01:01:57.000 This is the thing.

01:01:58.000 There's always one of the most fun Internet rabbit holes to go down is...

01:02:03.000 Are they hiding evidence that giants existed?

01:02:06.000 You know, like thirty foot tall men that lived in the mountains and there's always been weird stories of giants all throughout history.

01:02:14.000 And there's people who've d supposedly discovered giant brones and then they stored them in the basement of some famous museum and they won't let anybody have access to them.

01:02:23.000 Kind of fascinating.

01:02:24.000 Yeah.

01:02:25.000 Because they do exist, like those stories exist in history, but you mean you wonder like, is it n just a really big person, like that mountain guy from the Game of Thrones, you know, like an actual human being who's just really extraordinarily big?

01:02:38.000 Or is it a different thing?

01:02:40.000 Is it a a giant human being?

01:02:42.000 Mm-hmm.

01:02:43.000 Well, they're giants.

01:02:44.000 Yeah.

01:02:45.000 I mean, i it depends on your perspective.

01:02:48.000 Like I'm trying to look at or understanding anyway, you know, the giants uh as they're described in the Hebrew Bible or or else you know by implication in the book of Enoch.

01:02:59.000 You know, there were men of that there were giants, men of renown, and then uh the earth became corrupt.

01:03:07.000 And they consumed everything.

01:03:10.000 Well, yeah, yeah.

01:03:12.000 That's in the book of Enoch.

01:03:13.000 The problem is it's like if you're looking at the m least charitable version of human beings in 2025, there's a lot of examples that you could point to that go, well, that sounds guys, it sounds a lot like us.

01:03:24.000 Well, there may be another well, there won't be a flood that destroys all mankind.

01:03:28.000 God promised there'd be no flood uh that would destroy all mankind.

01:03:32.000 You know, that's the reason that we have the rainbow, or that's this the meaning of the rainbow is the covenant.

01:03:39.000 God made a promise that he wouldn't flood us anymore?

01:03:42.000 Uh that he wouldn't destroy all mankind.

01:03:44.000 All mankind with a flood.

01:03:46.000 With a flood.

01:03:46.000 But that doesn't rule out, let's say other things.

01:03:49.000 But don't you think i whoever wrote these stories.

01:03:53.000 Don't you think that was uh a regional event?

01:03:58.000 Like these these great floods, like if they were happening, let's just say the gre Randall Carlson's wrong and there was just one flood in the area.

01:04:08.000 And there there has to be if there's people from all parts of the world that all have this flood story.

01:04:17.000 There has to be some truth to it, right?

01:04:19.000 We agree to that.

01:04:21.000 Uh well, I don't know.

01:04:23.000 I mean, I read the Hebrew Bible, uh and that's sort of where my you know thinking about the events that are described in the Bible as occurring.

01:04:32.000 So you just leave it at that?

01:04:34.000 Yeah.

01:04:35.000 But when you when you well we still I mean the important thing about uh I think the important thing that I get anyway out of the Hebrew Bible is uh kind of an understanding of how things are between us and between us and God.

01:04:53.000 Uh so I don't think this contradicts that in any way.

01:04:57.000 Yeah, it's it's just fascinating.

01:05:00.000 And when Randall Carlson explains it and interestingly enough, he first had this idea.

01:05:08.000 He's not the f only person to have this idea, but he first had his version of this idea while he's on acid.

01:05:14.000 On drugs, that's what I was gonna say.

01:05:15.000 But I didn't want that to say at first.

01:05:17.000 He looked he looked out and he just had this vision, like, oh my god, this was water, water made this, and it and it happened really quickly.

01:05:26.000 They just all click with him, and then he's been chasing that rabbit ever since.

01:05:31.000 And he's a fascinating guy.

01:05:34.000 When you hear him talk he's he's he's so uh well read in the subject and can just recall information so effortlessly.

01:05:42.000 So it's it's a really fascinating guy to listen to talk about it because he's very compelling.

01:05:47.000 But I I think those younger drives impact theory folks are right.

01:05:51.000 Yeah.

01:05:51.000 I think something big happened.

01:05:53.000 I I wonder why LSD sparked his his genius that way.

01:05:57.000 He I think he said that he saw it.

01:05:59.000 Like when you looked out, he recognized what he was looking at.

01:06:02.000 Right.

01:06:03.000 He recognized that water made that thing.

01:06:05.000 Yeah.

01:06:06.000 And then for some reason that hadn't been even thought of.

01:06:10.000 But then when he showed me a bunch of these images where you have like satellite images, you could see how the earth was clearly it has the ripples of like massive amounts of water going through certain parts of the world.

01:06:22.000 Yeah.

01:06:23.000 Well, it kind of raises the issue of the spiritual um properties or promise of the psychedelics.

01:06:30.000 I mean, are the psychedelics spiritual and theogians.

01:06:34.000 Yeah, I just don't know if they I'm beginning to believe they more enhance they that they have to have something to work on.

01:06:42.000 They can only work on who you are.

01:06:44.000 And uh I think they just work on who you are.

01:06:47.000 I don't think they necessarily uh you know generate their own information that they're somehow transmitting to you.

01:06:56.000 Yeah, th it's the question of how psychedelics work, what are psychedelics doing.

01:06:59.000 I I think psych psychedelics or the psychedelic state will play an important role in shaping this virtual universe that uh you know seems to be taking hold, entering.

01:07:16.000 Well, it's really weird considering that it was nineteen seventy when most of these psychedelics were made a schedule of one sub substance.

01:07:27.000 Controlled substance attack of nineteen seventy.

01:07:30.000 That imagine that didn't happen.

01:07:30.000 Yeah.

01:07:34.000 Imagine Nixon was not president, that didn't happen, that didn't go through, and the world evolves technologically at the same level that it has now.

01:07:44.000 But also has access the entire time to all these different psychedelics legally.

01:07:55.000 I'm sure they were, but I bet they weren't as much.

01:07:57.000 Yeah.

01:07:58.000 It's dangerous.

01:07:59.000 People will get put in jail.

01:08:01.000 People don't want to lose their lives because they want to, you know, take a tap of acid so that they didn't do it.

01:08:06.000 Mo uh that it there it's a like a real deterrent for a lot of people that want to have a good future.

01:08:10.000 They go, fuck that.

01:08:11.000 I don't want to do drugs.

01:08:12.000 But if mushrooms were legal, like you might have made a completely different life choice a long time ago that made you happier.

01:08:19.000 Uh right.

01:08:20.000 Well Or not.

01:08:22.000 But it the the option to to try should be yours.

01:08:26.000 Uh so you're pro-legalization.

01:08:28.000 Yes.

01:08:29.000 And it should it certainly shouldn't be respr restricted by people who haven't experienced it.

01:08:33.000 That doesn't make any sense to me.

01:08:34.000 Like why would a person who has never experienced psychedelics be able to tell people who've done psychedelics that they can't do them?

01:08:42.000 That's nuts.

01:08:43.000 Like you don't even know what you're talking about.

01:08:45.000 You don't you don't have any experience in the state of mind that is enhancing these people's lives that have come back from war.

01:08:53.000 Like especially like ibogaine therapy.

01:08:57.000 Which is they're they've passed now in Texas, you know, so they're they're allowing that to happen now for people with like severe drug addiction and PTSD and it's really it's a very interesting drug.

01:09:09.000 I was wondering if you've ever done Ibegain.

01:09:11.000 No, I haven't.

01:09:12.000 But it's it's beautiful that it's being approved and used here because there's so many people that could so many fucking people go over and have to fight overseas and come back home scrambled and need some help.

01:09:26.000 Yeah.

01:09:27.000 And people who got hooked up on pills because they got injured, right?

01:09:31.000 Because something happened or whatever it is, and then all of a sudden you have a real problem.

01:09:36.000 Ibogaine is one of the best ways to kick it. 0.98

01:09:38.000 Like one of the absolute best ways.

01:09:41.000 It's very effective, right?

01:09:42.000 It's like one dose is like one one experience is like eighty something percent of the people never go back to whatever they were addicted to.

01:09:52.000 Yeah, I'm not sure if it's because of the drug or the belief in the drug.

01:09:52.000 Yeah.

01:09:59.000 Um the guy who first started to um you know, kind of popularize Ibegain was a fellow named Howard Lotsoff.

01:10:07.000 Uh very cool guy.

01:10:08.000 Um met him sort of during his late phase.

01:10:12.000 But he like as a young man, he was addicted, you know, to heroin.

01:10:16.000 Uh and he um and he heard about Ibegain as a tried to just trip on and have some kicks.

01:10:24.000 Yeah.

01:10:24.000 And he stopped and he found himself and just not using opiates anymore.

01:10:28.000 Wow.

01:10:29.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:10:30.000 The st yeah, uh the origin stories for you know for ibigain um are really fascinating.

01:10:37.000 So before that people didn't know that you could use it to kick drug addiction?

01:10:41.000 Uh you know, not that much.

01:10:43.000 No.

01:10:44.000 Well is dru uh what is uh is drug addiction ubiquitous throughout history?

01:10:49.000 Is there always been people that are addicted to drugs?

01:10:51.000 It's just it when is it when does it get when does it start getting recorded about people with addictions, actual addictions to drugs?

01:11:00.000 Yeah, I don't know.

01:11:01.000 The yeah, there were you know, there was the idea of addiction in the eighteen hundreds, maybe even earlier.

01:11:09.000 It was you know, kind of an American you know, British uh idea.

01:11:13.000 Like did they know they were alcoholics in the 1400s.

01:11:19.000 Yeah, all kinds.

01:11:20.000 I I mean I can't imagine what they were addicted to in the 1400s.

01:11:24.000 Scopolamine containing plants, yeah, so yeah, yeah, th you know, the solanacea mandrake and uh scopolamine, isn't that that that dust that they blow up your nose and turn you into a vampire or a zombie rather?

01:11:37.000 Uh yeah.

01:11:38.000 That's that it um scopolamine.

01:11:42.000 Oh yeah, yeah.

01:11:44.000 Right, right.

01:11:45.000 It's um a zombie drug or something.

01:11:47.000 Yeah, some sort of a zombie drug.

01:11:49.000 Yeah right?

01:11:49.000 Isn't that scopolamine?

01:11:51.000 Yeah, what well do you know Dennis McKenna?

01:11:54.000 Yeah, he tells the story of scopolamine uh in Mexico.

01:11:54.000 Sure.

01:12:00.000 I kind of th I I hope I'm right.

01:12:02.000 It's it's a great story.

01:12:03.000 Uh he devil's breath, that's right.

01:12:06.000 Devil's breath.

01:12:07.000 Medication used to treat motion sickness and post operative na nausea and vomiting, but it also does something wacky.

01:12:15.000 Yeah.

01:12:16.000 Like if you uh take large doses of it that the the devil's breath thing.

01:12:21.000 So you can get it in um drama mean.

01:12:24.000 That's what drama mean is, right?

01:12:26.000 Uh it's an anticholinergic like uh the scopolamine drugs are.

01:12:30.000 But isn't like the stuff that makes you less nauseous when you're seasick.

01:12:35.000 Like if you isn't that uh like composine.

01:12:38.000 Does dramamine have this stuff in it?

01:12:40.000 It's not the same?

01:12:41.000 Yeah, you know, one is uh sorry.

01:12:44.000 Dramamine is oral antihistivine called dimethylhydrenate, while sculpamine is a different prescription only anti-cholingeric medicine.

01:12:57.000 Particularly in patch form used to prevent motion sickness.

01:13:01.000 Okay.

01:13:01.000 So they put it in a patch form to cr stop motion sickness, whereas drum bean is the oral thing that stops motion sickness.

01:13:09.000 Got it.

01:13:09.000 Fentanyl's also in patches.

01:13:11.000 That's the like way to take it.

01:13:13.000 It is a f weird thing.

01:13:14.000 So but scopolamine uh you can get in a patch and it is for motion sickness.

01:13:20.000 Right.

01:13:21.000 But it's when they blow it up your nose that it's not good.

01:13:24.000 Uh yeah, uh well it's really in i uh it's you know the active ingredient in gypsum weed, loco weed.

01:13:32.000 And what is that?

01:13:33.000 U i i it grows in the southwest there's a lot growing or in loco weed?

01:13:38.000 Yeah, New Mexico Gymson weed loco weed.

01:13:40.000 Yes, gusko polymen.

01:13:42.000 And it will cause you know effects.

01:13:45.000 Well, you know, one of my you know patients when I worked at uh the VA in La Jolla Um w you know was an alcoholic w you know back in the day and took gymson weed tea, drank a lot of it, wandered off to the desert two, three days, one of those kind of stories.

01:14:01.000 Came back.

01:14:02.000 He didn't remember a thing, but he stopped using alcohol.

01:14:06.000 He he was brain damage though.

01:14:08.000 Uh sorry to say.

01:14:10.000 Yeah.

01:14:11.000 Brain damage from that?

01:14:12.000 From either being in the desert or from the scopolamine to too much.

01:14:16.000 Oh wow.

01:14:18.000 Yeah, it's a crazy drug.

01:14:19.000 Uh yeah.

01:14:20.000 Uh no, i it is uh useful.

01:14:22.000 Uh you know, one of the I would rather get motion sickness.

01:14:26.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:14:28.000 Uh that sounds terrible.

01:14:31.000 Yeah.

01:14:32.000 If you take too much, yeah, or you have a bad reaction to it.

01:14:36.000 Yeah.

01:14:38.000 What do you think is going on with American health?

01:14:38.000 Yeah.

01:14:41.000 That's a good question.

01:14:43.000 Well I've been fascinated by these videos of pregnant women taking Tylenol to to show Trump that they don't believe in what RFK Jr. is saying that somehow another anti-science.

01:14:59.000 When this uh science came from Harvard.

01:15:03.000 Mm-hmm.

01:15:04.000 That's where the study came from.

01:15:06.000 I mean, that the he's not making things up, and these people are like on TikTok, they're pregnant women taking Tylenol. 1.00

01:15:13.000 Yeah, I took a lot of well, I'm I mean, if I weren't for you know for Tylenol, I wouldn't be here today.

01:15:18.000 For real?

01:15:18.000 Well I I mean I do find it quite helpful.

01:15:21.000 Yeah.

01:15:22.000 Yeah, for you know, for injuries.

01:15:24.000 As as you get older, as a lot of people get older.

01:15:27.000 Mm-hmm.

01:15:27.000 Yeah, there's pain.

01:15:29.000 It's a acetaminophine though, right?

01:15:31.000 Which is really toxic, isn't it?

01:15:33.000 Well, if you take too much, it can cause so that's what it is, it's like a dose thing.

01:15:37.000 So one is fine.

01:15:38.000 One's fine.

01:15:39.000 Yeah, four is fine, probably.

01:15:41.000 After f four you s uh, you know, can upset your stomach.

01:15:46.000 Yeah, liver toxicity is possible.

01:15:48.000 You know, but if you stay within normal limits, seems to be fine.

01:15:51.000 So at least for myself.

01:15:53.000 And for you.

01:15:54.000 Well, and also in in general they haven't been recalls for, you know.

01:16:00.000 And what do you take it for if you're gonna take it?

01:16:04.000 Uh pain.

01:16:06.000 What kind of pain are you getting in?

01:16:09.000 Feet.

01:16:11.000 You know, uh my head hernia repair a while back.

01:16:14.000 Oh.

01:16:14.000 Yeah.

01:16:15.000 Yeah.

01:16:17.000 Yeah, so I find it to be a very helpful drug with no side effects.

01:16:23.000 Well, you should definitely be allowed to take it.

01:16:25.000 Especially you.

01:16:26.000 You know.

01:16:27.000 Uh my concern is always I should be allowed to take it.

01:16:30.000 People that don't understand that there's a dose that if you go over that it's gonna torture liver and you could die.

01:16:38.000 Yeah, it's it's all about dose.

01:16:40.000 I I mean microdosing psychedelics completely different or in a lot in quite a few ways than full dose.

01:16:47.000 Or the the effects are different.

01:16:49.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:16:51.000 Yeah.

01:16:54.000 I have in the past.

01:16:55.000 Yeah.

01:16:57.000 Yeah.

01:16:58.000 While back, um I was having some you know some belly issues and I microdosed ayahuasca for about a month.

01:17:05.000 So helpful, very helpful.

01:17:06.000 What is every day like?

01:17:08.000 Uh microdose in ayahuasca.

01:17:10.000 Well, it is a microdose, so I you know like a mic uh it was teeny.

01:17:14.000 So it just gave you a just a little peak?

01:17:17.000 I wish.

01:17:18.000 Nothing?

01:17:19.000 I th uh more in the beginning than kind of stretched it out.

01:17:19.000 Not really.

01:17:23.000 It's it's kinda like coffee, uh like sparkly coffee if you take a little too much.

01:17:28.000 Oh yeah.

01:17:32.000 Um what do you think would have happened if that 1970 sweeping act didn't take place?

01:17:40.000 What do you think the world would look how how much different?

01:17:42.000 Have you ever contemplated it?

01:17:43.000 How much different would the world before?

01:17:47.000 Not really.

01:17:48.000 Not at all.

01:17:50.000 Good for you.

01:17:51.000 Good for you.

01:17:52.000 Why waste your time?

01:17:54.000 Uh well, I I mean, y you know, when I tried to get my DMT study off the ground, uh I mean that was pretty weird.

01:18:00.000 That was you know, two years of just you know, back breaking labor.

01:18:04.000 What year was that?

01:18:05.000 Where it started?

01:18:07.000 Uh I I submitted um the paperwork in September 1988.

01:18:12.000 I gave my first dose of DMT in November 1990.

01:18:16.000 And I gave a lot of DMT then.

01:18:19.000 I went kind of crazy for the next five years.

01:18:25.000 And you were doing IV drip slow release, right?

01:18:29.000 No, it's a b it was one big dose.

01:18:30.000 One big dose IV?

01:18:32.000 Yeah, bolus, IV bolus.

01:18:34.000 Yeah.

01:18:35.000 Yeah.

01:18:36.000 So the our high dose was zero point four milligrams per kilogram.

01:18:40.000 Oh and the highest dose is now being used for 0.3.

01:18:44.000 Nobody has gone back up to 0.4 on a regular basis.

01:18:49.000 Yeah, so people really went out there on zero point four, they were pretty scared.

01:18:53.000 Yeah.

01:18:54.000 They weren't sure they were coming back.

01:18:56.000 Oh, you weren't sure they were coming back.

01:18:58.000 Yeah.

01:18:59.000 That is a fear.

01:19:00.000 That's a fear of all psychedelic experiences.

01:19:03.000 I don't think you could shut it off.

01:19:06.000 Yeah.

01:19:06.000 What is this?

01:19:07.000 And is this real just around me all the time and I'm ignoring it?

01:19:10.000 Is this real?

01:19:11.000 Is this real?

01:19:11.000 Are you and are you ignoring it?

01:19:13.000 Um boy, that's a terrible state to be in.

01:19:16.000 Terrible.

01:19:18.000 Excuse me.

01:19:19.000 That's why Yeah, that's why I think you know, DMT ought to be carefully taken.

01:19:26.000 I think everything should be carefully taken, especially if you've got something wrong with you already.

01:19:30.000 Like if you're self-diagnosing with some really potent stuff, like yeah, yeah, think it can really go south.

01:19:38.000 Yeah.

01:19:39.000 Well, I mean, uh how who's who's going to decide that, you know, based on what?

01:19:44.000 Well, no one's deciding for you with alcohol.

01:19:47.000 You could go fill your bar at home with more than enough to kill yourself with.

01:19:50.000 Yeah, don't get started on it.

01:19:52.000 Uh yeah.

01:19:53.000 Right?

01:19:53.000 Like most people can.

01:19:54.000 Yeah.

01:19:54.000 Most people if you have like a little bar in your house, like three or four bottles of Jack Daniels, a couple of this, a couple of that, you're dead.

01:20:00.000 Drink all that stuff, you're dead.

01:20:02.000 Yeah.

01:20:03.000 Um have you ever gone through a drinking phase?

01:20:05.000 Not a bad drinking phase.

01:20:07.000 Uh I don't drink at all anymore.

01:20:09.000 Um, but I I will still, if I feel like it, I'll have a glass of wine.

01:20:14.000 Or I'll have a margarita.

01:20:16.000 I like a nice cabernet, sir.

01:20:18.000 Um I just like a little red wine sometimes.

01:20:18.000 Okay.

01:20:21.000 But I've only had like two or three glasses of anything over the last like eight, nine months.

01:20:27.000 And even like I didn't even finish the wine.

01:20:29.000 It's like I've lost my taste for it.

01:20:32.000 I just the the trade-off is not worth it.

01:20:35.000 Like I have a lot of fun people in my life and I have a lot of fun without alcohol.

01:20:41.000 Like I don't necessarily think it was providing me with the the amount of good versus the amount of negative.

01:20:52.000 The the negative outweighed it, especially physically.

01:20:55.000 Uh right.

01:20:56.000 It's just bad for you physically.

01:20:57.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:20:58.000 Yeah, thankfully I didn't drink in high school.

01:21:01.000 I and I kind of made up for a lost time in college.

01:21:04.000 And I got really sick a few times.

01:21:06.000 Yeah.

01:21:07.000 It's rough.

01:21:08.000 I just stopped drinking.

01:21:09.000 You know, like to that point anyway.

01:21:11.000 Well, it's like people are having a good time, you know, and I get it.

01:21:14.000 And if you're young and I get it, I get it, I did it too.

01:21:18.000 But it's not good for you.

01:21:20.000 But it's not good for your decision making too, because you then you read the next day you're like, ugh.

01:21:20.000 No.

01:21:25.000 And if you're if you're at that low state of being hung over, you're fucking for sure not putting out great energy.

01:21:31.000 Yeah.

01:21:32.000 Well, you don't want you don't want to get into that state.

01:21:35.000 Or if you you do you want it channeled really really carefully.

01:21:39.000 Yeah.

01:21:42.000 Uh yeah, like I've never been part of a like an ultra-orthodox uh sect, but I think what happens in some of the ultra-orthodox Jewish sects, there's a Lupavitcher uh sect in Brooklyn.

01:21:56.000 And the fellow who led that was Schneerson, uh Menachem Schneerson.

01:22:02.000 And he really enjoyed drinking.

01:22:05.000 He got you know, and inspired.

01:22:08.000 And he wanted others to become inspired.

01:22:11.000 Yeah, it has to uh you know, some be become a conduit.

01:22:14.000 I I think it yeah, kind of differs like with Bukowski, yeah, but like you know, you can think of somebody who loves alcohol.

01:22:21.000 First time he first time he got drunk, it was a psychedelic experience, actually.

01:22:27.000 Yeah.

01:22:28.000 In his account he says to himself, I think I've found something very, very important.

01:22:38.000 It's kind of hilarious.

01:22:39.000 Yeah, uh that was never the effect alcohol had on me.

01:22:42.000 I didn't you get you feel good for a while, short period of time.

01:22:47.000 Yeah.

01:22:49.000 We obviously all differ biologically, but some people it hits a switch that nothing else does.

01:22:56.000 Um there's some people love it.

01:22:58.000 Yeah.

01:22:59.000 Well, it's just it's discounted in the text.

01:23:02.000 You shouldn't drink too much.

01:23:03.000 It's very clear.

01:23:04.000 Smart.

01:23:04.000 Very clear.

01:23:05.000 But I'm not sure you shouldn't drink at all.

01:23:07.000 Like you should drink if you want to drink.

01:23:09.000 And you know, does you know, everybody uh people get real rigid.

01:23:14.000 You know, especially if you uh have someone around you that has a problem with alcohol or you have had a problem with alcohol.

01:23:21.000 Yeah.

01:23:22.000 Well, there's a huge uh homeless population in in Albuquerque.

01:23:27.000 Oh yeah.

01:23:28.000 Alcohol plays somewhat of a role.

01:23:30.000 Yeah.

01:23:31.000 Oh, I played a lot more in the Navajo Reservation when I lived in Gallup.

01:23:36.000 Yeah, I think people just use and abuse drugs.

01:23:38.000 There's also those things, they sound like there's not a lot of opportunity in the places you're describing, right?

01:23:45.000 Uh right.

01:23:46.000 So if you don't yeah, uh you just want to not feel anything.

01:23:49.000 You're outside a reservation.

01:23:51.000 Or on one.

01:23:52.000 Or on a reservation.

01:23:53.000 Yeah.

01:23:56.000 I mean, I'm in the middle of uh the audiobook Empire of the Summer Moon for the second time.

01:24:02.000 It's uh it's all about the Comanches and the war between the settlers and the Comanche.

01:24:08.000 Oh really?

01:24:09.000 Crazy.

01:24:10.000 Oh yeah.

01:24:10.000 Yeah.

01:24:11.000 And I'm in the the middle of this, and and uh I'm thinking like have people always been this horrible and we're just sort of catching up to it now.

01:24:24.000 Well, you you know, that's uh you know, that's taken into account in Cain and Abel, the Cain and Abel story thing.

01:24:31.000 Sure.

01:24:32.000 The first two children.

01:24:34.000 One murders the other.

01:24:35.000 So it's start it's it started it started way back.

01:24:38.000 It starts way back with the bang.

01:24:41.000 And you just go, God, have people always been this awful?

01:24:44.000 From the beginning.

01:24:46.000 Yeah, from well, you know, there's a line in the text that he's gonna that that you know God is gonna destroy mankind.

01:24:52.000 No, no, what does he what what happens here?

01:24:55.000 I think he decides people will only live 120 years at the most because their inclination is bad from the get-go.

01:25:02.000 And 120 years is enough time to repent and become a better person.

01:25:08.000 Wow.

01:25:09.000 So you give it a hundred and twenty years to you know, deal with what you were born with.

01:25:15.000 But this book, this Empire of the Summer Moon, it just makes me think when you think about what life was like for the people that lived here before the European settlers arrived and how quickly everything went away.

01:25:31.000 Historically in terms of like the timeline it was only a few hundred years and it was just completely gone.

01:25:37.000 Yeah Yeah.

01:25:38.000 well the Garden of Eden lost.

01:25:40.000 There was also, there was a lot of war.

01:25:45.000 That's the thing that everybody likes to leave out.

01:25:48.000 I'm fascinated with Native American culture.

01:25:52.000 I'm fascinated with this Comanche civilization that lived here, because this book, Empire of the Summer Moon, is just it's so interesting.

01:25:59.000 They were so fierce and they lived right here.

01:26:04.000 Yeah.

01:26:05.000 Well, there's twenty nine Pueblos in New Mexico.

01:26:09.000 And you know the Pueblo are peaceful folk.

01:26:12.000 They're agricultural.

01:26:13.000 You know, that's their you know that's been their heritage.

01:26:13.000 Yeah.

01:26:16.000 The Comanche were not. 1.00

01:26:18.000 And they w one of the things this book talks about is how a lot of the Apaches were not on horseback.

01:26:24.000 And they were, and that they were literally wiping out bands of Apache and forcing them to go to Mexico. 0.80

01:26:32.000 It's like it's this is always been there's always been once they've had horses, which is really like after the Spaniards got here. 0.68

01:26:42.000 Right.

01:26:43.000 Then they once the Comanches figured out horses, they got really good at it.

01:26:47.000 And they were like an impossible barrier to get through this part of the country.

01:26:52.000 Yeah, there's mostly Navajo around where I lived in Gallup.

01:26:56.000 And they were nomads.

01:26:59.000 They raised sheep.

01:27:01.000 Mm.

01:27:02.000 Spon.

01:27:02.000 Sure.

01:27:03.000 And then on the eastern side, a lot more agriculture, right?

01:27:07.000 It's just all the space into the sound.

01:27:09.000 The amount of time that it took for everything to get pushed where if you're a Native American and you you're you know, it's 2025 for you and you're living on a rent of reservation, you're like, whoa.

01:27:21.000 What happened?

01:27:22.000 You start going into the history of it, like how many people died?

01:27:26.000 Like what happened?

01:27:27.000 Is is there Comanche presence in in Texas?

01:27:31.000 A lot of signs, I'll tell you that.

01:27:33.000 A lot of the signs are like Quanta Parker Lane.

01:27:38.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:27:39.000 Well w well, they always name things after what used to be there.

01:27:44.000 Well, this is all that area.

01:27:46.000 There's a lot of Comanche were in this area, but it went all the way down to Oklahoma.

01:27:50.000 It was uh just uh a barrier that you couldn't get through.

01:27:56.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:27:56.000 Well yeah, it was fun living in Gallup.

01:27:58.000 It was mostly in Avajo.

01:28:00.000 Yeah.

01:28:00.000 Yeah, very low key.

01:28:04.000 They come to terms with being, you know, defeated.

01:28:08.000 Part of part of it.

01:28:11.000 It's crazy though, isn't it?

01:28:13.000 Well I mean it like had that ha all those things had to take place in order to get New York City.

01:28:18.000 Like yeah.

01:28:19.000 So you have to decide what do you like more?

01:28:21.000 New York City or you want to go back in time and say, don't sell this.

01:28:25.000 Right, right.

01:28:26.000 You know, what do you like more?

01:28:27.000 Do you like pizza?

01:28:28.000 Do you like do you go to uh I I like pizza.

01:28:32.000 I do too.

01:28:33.000 Like to be able to go to a nice nightclub, have a drink, go to a nice steak dinner in New York City.

01:28:40.000 Or give it all back, give it all back.

01:28:42.000 Go back in time, because hey hey guys, you're getting robbed.

01:28:45.000 Don't sell this for whatever it was.

01:28:47.000 You can't halt progress.

01:28:49.000 How much did they buy New York for?

01:28:51.000 Twenty-seven dollars.

01:28:52.000 In jewelry.

01:28:52.000 Really?

01:28:53.000 Fake jewelry even.

01:28:54.000 No.

01:28:55.000 Wow, what a deal.

01:28:55.000 Yeah.

01:28:56.000 Or forty-five dollars.

01:28:57.000 What a great what a great origin story for a villainous country.

01:29:03.000 That their number one city was made through a swindle deal.

01:29:06.000 Yeah.

01:29:07.000 Where it was fake jewelry.

01:29:09.000 Uh-huh.

01:29:10.000 Well, that's where I I went to medical school is the Bronx.

01:29:13.000 Well, you're from New Jersey.

01:29:14.000 Yeah, I'm from the Burns.

01:29:14.000 Yes.

01:29:15.000 That's where I was born, yeah.

01:29:16.000 Yeah, I trained in the Bronx.

01:29:18.000 I I didn't get to Jersey much.

01:29:21.000 New Jersey's a crazy place because everybody thinks of it as just being city, 'cause like it's right near the city.

01:29:26.000 Like Hackensack and Hoboken and stuff like that, but it's like mostly rural.

01:29:31.000 Yeah.

01:29:31.000 Mostly it's it's got bears all over the place in it.

01:29:34.000 There's some really nice coastal parks.

01:29:36.000 Yeah, oh yeah.

01:29:37.000 The shore is awesome.

01:29:40.000 You know, small doses.

01:29:41.000 Mm-hmm.

01:29:42.000 It's nice to go down there.

01:29:43.000 Uh so the Bronx was great training.

01:29:43.000 Yeah.

01:29:45.000 Yeah.

01:29:46.000 Yeah.

01:29:49.000 Uh it's what it's like the modern Orthodox you know, university in the country.

01:29:54.000 Oh, that's where it is.

01:29:55.000 Yeah.

01:29:56.000 And uh it it's the m it's the medical school of Yeshiva.

01:30:00.000 Mm.

01:30:01.000 It's called Einstein.

01:30:02.000 And uh, s and the Bronx.

01:30:04.000 It was great training.

01:30:05.000 We could do anything.

01:30:07.000 We could do everything because they were you know, it was pretty poorly staffed in some t in some ways in the seventies.

01:30:13.000 Yeah, so we had a lot of uh you know duty.

01:30:17.000 When did you first even have the idea to create a study of people doing IV DMT?

01:30:25.000 Like when did you even though it seems like a good one?

01:30:31.000 Because w what it was a how do you get to the point where you're asking the government to let you do this?

01:30:38.000 And then you get 'em actually to say yes.

01:30:40.000 Mm-hmm.

01:30:40.000 That's it was the war on drugs that funded our study.

01:30:45.000 Uh well, it it all kind of came to a head uh with Terrence McKenna.

01:30:51.000 We were up in his loft one afternoon.

01:30:54.000 And uh instead of saying DMT was a really great drug and ask for money, we said DMT was a really dangerous drug and asked for money.

01:31:06.000 Uh I think you've told me this before.

01:31:09.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:31:10.000 But it's a good story.

01:31:11.000 It's a yeah, yeah.

01:31:13.000 We just want to study it.

01:31:16.000 It's not good or bad.

01:31:20.000 It's clever because it's not you're not lying.

01:31:23.000 Uh no, no.

01:31:25.000 I knew what I was talking about too.

01:31:27.000 Yeah.

01:31:28.000 Like I'd done neuroendochrinology research with melatonin, circadian rhythm research.

01:31:33.000 Yeah, I was a bona fide investigator.

01:31:37.000 I I just asked simple questions.

01:31:40.000 Could we give it?

01:31:41.000 What happens when you give it?

01:31:44.000 DMT is really strange.

01:31:46.000 Uh the r the role it's played in my life almost c I've been complaining for years, uh that um well not complaining for years, but uh I don't know, I'm I'm more skeptical of the psychedelic experience than I was before.

01:32:01.000 I don't think it's uh it's uh panacea.

01:32:04.000 Well I I th I think it is a panacea, that's the problem.

01:32:08.000 Um I think there's an issue with spiritual narcissism.

01:32:12.000 That's uh a thing that sort of grips people when they start doing it a lot and then their identity is wrapped up in doing it a lot.

01:32:21.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:32:22.000 Like uh is a little bit of that that happens with folks.

01:32:24.000 I th with DMT in particular.

01:32:27.000 Is it or ayahuasca?

01:32:29.000 Mm-hmm.

01:32:30.000 Like uh about once the once a year I get an email saying something in the subject line, your book and my son.

01:32:39.000 Yeah, and they say that they you know just smoked way too much DMT.

01:32:43.000 They were in the hospital or in prison.

01:32:45.000 No, Jesus.

01:32:46.000 Yeah, they just well it became messianic, like you were like you said, like you believe you know more than anyone and if they just listened.

01:32:55.000 Yeah.

01:32:56.000 False Messiah.

01:32:58.000 Well, that's you know, there's some interesting stories of false messiahs.

01:33:02.000 The w you know, the like at least within Judaism, Messiah has not come yet, as opposed to Christianity, where Jesus was Messiah.

01:33:13.000 And so what is cr so what is Judaism's version of what happened with Jesus?

01:33:18.000 He wasn't the Messiah, so he died, he didn't get resurrected.

01:33:22.000 Well, uh you know, he may have been resurrected, but resurrection occurs in the Hebrew Bible, so that's not unique.

01:33:30.000 Right.

01:33:31.000 But what what is their take on it?

01:33:34.000 Um well, end of story, he's killed.

01:33:39.000 And that's it.

01:33:40.000 You don't come back.

01:33:41.000 Uh no, not really.

01:33:43.000 Not within the Hebrew Bible.

01:33:44.000 That's part of the New Testament, the Christian Bible.

01:33:47.000 Oh, oh, that's one thing I wanted to bring up is old Testament is a term that's a little disparaging in a way.

01:33:55.000 Is it?

01:33:56.000 It's been replaced by Hebrew Bible.

01:33:58.000 Interesting.

01:33:59.000 Yeah.

01:33:59.000 When was that?

01:34:01.000 It's been building.

01:34:02.000 Okay.

01:34:03.000 So is this like a pronoun thing?

01:34:05.000 It prefers this?

01:34:06.000 Uh it f it wants to be identified as a Hebrew Bible.

01:34:10.000 They prefer it.

01:34:11.000 They I was saying it.

01:34:14.000 Yeah, it could be either.

01:34:19.000 Yeah.

01:34:20.000 Um, like I was thinking of you uh well, you know how people put in parenthetical phrases, you know, uh he him.

01:34:29.000 Yeah, I th I was I was thinking of doing that for myself once, it and it.

01:34:36.000 It and it's yeah, be it would be gender neutral. 0.85

01:34:40.000 Sounds good.

01:34:41.000 Yeah.

01:34:42.000 Well that's one of the Or just not ever.

01:34:48.000 Yeah.

01:34:48.000 So you know uh um I was thinking about you know you know does God have genitals and you know probably not.

01:35:00.000 Doesn't seem like it it's the likely way we were made.

01:35:06.000 But there's probably some sort of a interdimensional psychedelic equivalent of intercourse that higher beings have some interaction with each other.

01:35:22.000 Uh I think it was the optimal form.

01:35:25.000 The optimal form?

01:35:26.000 Yeah, to contain a certain consciousness and do particular things.

01:35:32.000 It's an ideal form.

01:35:35.000 It w was ideal.

01:35:38.000 Uh so that's you know why it took that particular unique shape.

01:35:44.000 You know, form follows function, things like that.

01:35:47.000 Right.

01:35:47.000 Yeah.

01:35:48.000 Well I'm I'm I got confused there.

01:35:50.000 What are you referring to?

01:35:51.000 Oh, well, you know, the specific well, y I think you you were um I was referring to man being made in God's image.

01:36:00.000 Okay.

01:36:01.000 Yeah, with with genitals. 1.00

01:36:02.000 Oh, right.

01:36:03.000 Okay.

01:36:03.000 Yeah.

01:36:04.000 Yeah, but but I think it you know it in the animal kingdom, uh things evolve to do certain things.

01:36:13.000 They have form and function which you know combined determine their range of behaviors.

01:36:18.000 So I think in humans it's sort of was the optimal form as well.

01:36:23.000 Same way, perhaps.

01:36:27.000 What do you think happened when human beings had this doubling of the brain size over a period of two million years?

01:36:34.000 What do you think that was that true?

01:36:40.000 Supposedly.

01:36:41.000 Yeah, I think so.

01:36:41.000 I think it was yeah.

01:36:43.000 Yeah.

01:36:43.000 I don't know.

01:36:44.000 It sounds like a crazy little expansion.

01:36:48.000 Yeah.

01:36:48.000 So I mean you could look at it, you know, evolutionarily, you know, biologically, you know, theologically you can look at it too as you know finally being endowed with you know a human spirit.

01:37:01.000 You know, there's multiple spirits.

01:37:03.000 Uh you know, and even in the Hebrew Bible, there's multiple spirits.

01:37:07.000 There's so as the brain expands in size, you develop a human spirit?

01:37:12.000 I think so.

01:37:13.000 That human spirit allows for divine communication.

01:37:13.000 Yeah.

01:37:17.000 At least that's how the theory goes.

01:37:20.000 So it's the you know, the breathing in of of the soul to man by God and it's in in man's creation.

01:37:28.000 Right.

01:37:28.000 So ultimately we're gonna get to be a gray.

01:37:32.000 We're gonna have a big giant head and we're not gonna need to talk 'cause we're we're gonna do it telepathically.

01:37:38.000 Yeah.

01:37:39.000 Okay.

01:37:39.000 You know, telepathically you think uh people being able to read the mind is a good thing.

01:37:47.000 It will uh be a good thing once that that happens, or if it it can happen.

01:37:53.000 I think it will be a thing.

01:37:56.000 And like all things, it will have good aspects to it and bad aspects to it.

01:38:01.000 I think reading people's minds will be very enlightening.

01:38:04.000 You're gonna learn a lot more about how people actually think versus what they project.

01:38:09.000 You're gonna you're gonna be able to see people's motivations.

01:38:11.000 You're gonna be able to still lies and we might even have a universal visual language that they develop.

01:38:16.000 Well we might all be able to adopt it really quickly and kids probably will jump right on board and they'll be literate in it before we are.

01:38:24.000 Well what about psychological and bivalence?

01:38:28.000 You know, loving someone one moment, hating them another.

01:38:31.000 Well that's you know what happens if you you know tune in to one at one moment.

01:38:38.000 You're convinced that's that's you know, solely the case.

01:38:42.000 If you're ambivalent, all ambivalence is a real thing.

01:38:45.000 And you're, you know, you have an unconscious too, where things are kind of stored away psychologically.

01:38:52.000 Yeah, I'm not saying it's good.

01:38:54.000 It it might be hard.

01:38:55.000 Well, I I don't know if if there is some way where We link up and we can communicate completely telepathically.

01:39:05.000 It could be really weird.

01:39:07.000 Yeah.

01:39:07.000 But it will be a thing.

01:39:09.000 That's my point.

01:39:09.000 It's like it's n it's we're gonna have to navigate it like we navigated making books.

01:39:15.000 Like we navigated everything else.

01:39:17.000 Like if we want to stay alive, we've got to recognize that there's some shit going down.

01:39:23.000 There's some shit going down right now.

01:39:24.000 And there's free will isn't there, you know, forever.

01:39:30.000 Well, I mean, in this uh Or is there free will the determinism people don't think there is.

01:39:35.000 Well, it feels as if there's free will.

01:39:38.000 Yeah.

01:39:40.000 We respect free will, so it's probably a real thing.

01:39:42.000 We expect we we we respect a person who's like been a drunk their whole life who puts down the bottle and starts running around the block.

01:39:49.000 We respect that's a real thing.

01:39:51.000 Free will is there's part of free will.

01:39:54.000 It's like there's something there.

01:39:57.000 Mm-hmm.

01:39:57.000 There's something there.

01:39:58.000 You make choices.

01:39:59.000 You don't know why you make choices, but you make choices.

01:40:02.000 That's the thing.

01:40:03.000 There's a lot of factors in why you make choices, and it's not 100% determinism and it's not 100% free will.

01:40:10.000 It's kind of there's a soup.

01:40:12.000 There's a very good thing.

01:40:15.000 Yeah, well, to the soup.

01:40:18.000 You know, to the extent that you can exert free will.

01:40:20.000 You know, you have to kind of do the best you can.

01:40:23.000 Yeah, you gotta do your best you can.

01:40:24.000 Yeah.

01:40:25.000 Yeah, and even if we're uploaded into the cloud, let's say I mean, how's that time gonna be spent?

01:40:32.000 Good question.

01:40:33.000 What is I mean, yeah, are we even capable of imagining what we're talking about?

01:40:39.000 Are we so crude in our understanding of what's to come in the next five, ten, whatever years that we're just we're just guessing we're silly.

01:40:49.000 We're like writing a bad science fiction movie from the nineteen eighties about the year two thousand.

01:40:53.000 Mm-hmm.

01:40:54.000 You remember those like space nineteen ninety-nine?

01:40:57.000 Well well, you know, it's it's the one god and the golden rule.

01:41:00.000 I think that's what we'll be you know, left with ethically, you know, how what the basis of our decision making will be.

01:41:08.000 I've always wondered if we're in a race to avoid catastrophe.

01:41:12.000 And that's one of the reasons why we're so like hyper focused on accelerating with technology, is that we kind of always recognize that this species is on a a race to avoid natural catastrophe.

01:41:26.000 Like there's just so much potential for natural natural catastrophe, whether it's super volcanoes, asteroid impact, so many different things have like almost wiped us out to nothing.

01:41:37.000 That it's like might be a part of the reason why there's this like mad rush to make better and better and better technology.

01:41:44.000 It's almost like a uh a game.

01:41:46.000 Like, can you get to the final boss?

01:41:48.000 Can your species survive and figure out a way to stop the rock from space?

01:41:54.000 Yeah, the the footsteps of the Messiah.

01:41:57.000 That's what uh that's called.

01:42:00.000 I mean, you you want to be at the round uh you want to be around at the time of the Messiah, but not really, because things have to get so bad.

01:42:07.000 That's one model of you know, the end of times.

01:42:10.000 There's also a lot of people that don't recognize that being a a human being on Earth is being a passenger in an organic spaceship going through the universe.

01:42:26.000 Like there there are real celestial events that they have to keep their eyes on, which you know you haven't experienced in your life, so you're like, eh.

01:42:35.000 But no, there's there's giant rocks that killed the dinosaurs, and they're still floating around, same size rocks.

01:42:42.000 Yeah, I know.

01:42:43.000 And they can't stop them.

01:42:45.000 They don't know how to stop 'em yet.

01:42:46.000 Like don't listen to any of these fucking people.

01:42:49.000 Oh, if we saw it, we would do this and do that and sleep tight at night.

01:42:53.000 No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

01:42:55.000 No, if there was some gigantic state-sized chunk of metal flying through the galaxy, we would have a real problem.

01:43:05.000 Yeah.

01:43:05.000 Uh mm, it might wipe out all of humanity.

01:43:08.000 Yeah, it might wipe out all of humanity.

01:43:10.000 And it probably came really close to doing that a few times in history.

01:43:10.000 Yeah.

01:43:13.000 That's what I think.

01:43:14.000 Yeah.

01:43:15.000 It's the only thing that makes sense.

01:43:16.000 If we know that we we're hit all the time, we we all accept the fact that the Yucatan impact, that's what killed the dinosaurs, and there's been a bunch of them throughout history.

01:43:26.000 We've seen we f we find craters everywhere.

01:43:29.000 Everyone knows that we've been hit multiple times, the Tangouska thing in Russia.

01:43:34.000 Where it flattened this enormous patch of forest, it's still flattened.

01:43:34.000 Yeah.

01:43:39.000 Have you been watching uh season two of uh Um uh Um of Grand uh Hancock's uh ancient apocalypse?

01:43:48.000 I didn't watch season two yet.

01:43:49.000 No.

01:43:50.000 I watched season one though.

01:43:51.000 Yeah.

01:43:52.000 What's season two about?

01:43:53.000 Uh it's uh it's like the Americas, right?

01:43:56.000 Yeah.

01:43:58.000 Yeah, the Americas are crazy. 0.69

01:44:00.000 Yeah, I like Graham.

01:44:01.000 Oh, he's the best.

01:44:02.000 Yeah, he's hard working.

01:44:04.000 Oh, he loves what he does, man.

01:44:05.000 He really does.

01:44:08.000 And the fact that he's finally been over all these attacks, he's finally been vindicated and people are starting to accept more and more things are probably a lot older than we want to believe.

01:44:23.000 And especially after go backly Tapi.

01:44:25.000 That kind of like that popped the cork on everything, and everyone's like, okay, well, this has definitely been buried for eleven thousand years.

01:44:32.000 So what this is kind of crazy.

01:44:35.000 We didn't know they could do that back then.

01:44:37.000 Well, before coming out here, I asked Chat GPT, you know, how old are some of the stories written down in the in the text in the Hebrew Bible?

01:44:44.000 And at least according to Chat GPT is 10,000 years ago.

01:44:49.000 You know, so my God.

01:44:51.000 You know, something may have happened at that time that uh makes sense.

01:44:55.000 Yeah, that's a very interesting finding.

01:44:58.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, Sodom and Gomorrah, that's a great story.

01:45:01.000 Um I'm working on this translation of the Hebrew Bible.

01:45:05.000 I've got a sub stack now.

01:45:07.000 I've been putting out things every week, a chapter a week.

01:45:11.000 Yeah.

01:45:11.000 On on my translation of the Bible.

01:45:13.000 It's like a thousand pages right now of commentary about the language and uh you know, the grammar, you know, the meaning, that the what's called the plain meaning of the text.

01:45:22.000 Like there was a Noah with three sons and um went on the ark. 0.84

01:45:27.000 Yeah, so uh yeah, that's like my big project, but I like to do a smaller one about uh Sodom and Gomorrah and the figure of Lot.

01:45:37.000 I think that's a really incredible story.

01:45:40.000 I've spent about uh uh maybe two to three weeks looking at that, you know, like a lot, his virgin daughters, the men circling his house, uh they're asking to know him.

01:45:52.000 He ends up in you know, in a cave with his two virgin daughters, they get him drunk and he sleeps with them.

01:45:59.000 Uh or you know, they lie with him anyway.

01:46:01.000 Yeah, and outcome two kids at a certain point, and they become very important.

01:46:07.000 You know, later on they're the beginning of the Messianic line.

01:46:11.000 You know, so it's a very intricate you know, tale with uh a very uh I think you can make some cool conversations between some of the main personages and the uh in the narrative.

01:46:24.000 You know, there's a book called The Red Tent.

01:46:26.000 Can I ask you about the the lot?

01:46:29.000 Like how how old was that story?

01:46:32.000 Well, that must be well, it's an explanation of Sodom and Gomorrah, which is the you know, uh around the Dead Sea.

01:46:39.000 You know, there was a conflagration of some sort there.

01:46:42.000 Uh um have any of your guests spoken about you know Sodom, you know, w you know w w what actually happened around the Dead Sea.

01:46:50.000 I it was quite catastrophic.

01:46:52.000 Uh well tell us.

01:46:53.000 Tell us.

01:46:54.000 Well, the story Um of Lot, yeah.

01:46:56.000 I mean there was fire and sulfur pouring down on Sodom and Gomorrah.

01:47:00.000 Yeah, it was the end of the plain.

01:47:03.000 Yeah, so that's uh the southern part of you know the of the Dead Sea.

01:47:09.000 You know, it it is a Dead Sea because of his high salt concentrations.

01:47:13.000 It was kind of you know closed off from the coast.

01:47:18.000 Uh yeah, so it's at least a description of you know what took place.

01:47:24.000 What do you think it's describing?

01:47:27.000 Uh well, I mean, you know, m my perspective is it actually happened.

01:47:33.000 Yeah, but people think of volcano.

01:47:35.000 It's some kind of volcanic activity.

01:47:37.000 What totally same sounds like a volcano, right?

01:47:40.000 And one we know that there's been a bunch of those that uh have almost wiped people out entirely at certain points.

01:47:47.000 The Toba volcano, you know that one?

01:47:50.000 No.

01:47:51.000 We got down to um I think the we've looked this up before, but uh I want to say they think we might have gotten down to just a few thousand people.

01:48:03.000 On the whole planet.

01:48:04.000 Like seventy thousand years ago.

01:48:05.000 Seventy thousand years ago there was a massive super volcano uh that went off and it you know it plunged the earth probably into nuclear winter and they think that our genetic line entirely of the human race on earth came from this few thousand survivors.

01:48:23.000 Joe, can we take a quick one?

01:48:25.000 Yeah.

01:48:26.000 Yes.

01:48:26.000 We'll be right back, folks.

01:48:27.000 Seriously.

01:48:28.000 We're back.

01:48:32.000 Yes.

01:48:33.000 Explain what you mean by that.

01:48:35.000 Like that these things are happening in an alternative dimension.

01:48:39.000 Right.

01:48:39.000 Yeah, I think they're happening in an alternative dimension.

01:48:42.000 Like when you smoke DMT, you return to the same place each time.

01:48:46.000 So there seems to be some reality, some DMT world uh that people enter into.

01:48:54.000 And it's uh y one of my volunteers, uh one of the the subjects in the DMT research, um he he got a big dose one day and then a few months later he you got another big dose and he he said that it was very interesting.

01:49:09.000 He said things have just you know continued a pace since his first exposure and his first you know entrance into that state and things had had you know gone on uh in the meantime and he r um reentered uh you know that world.

01:49:27.000 So in that way there's uh you know, in that same manner the world of the Hebrew Bible early on, Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, Noah, the Tower of Babel, all that took place.

01:49:40.000 at some different level of reality, which gradually made its way into ours.

01:49:48.000 And once it made it w its way into ours, there's the archaeological evidence, you know, the first temple, second temple, and so on.

01:49:58.000 Um so there is a transition between uh you know, our our world and that world kind of merged.

01:50:05.000 But in the in the in the beginning, um it was an alternative dimension.

01:50:10.000 The the same God, I think, but but you know, different dimensions.

01:50:15.000 So did is this your own personal conclusion?

01:50:20.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:50:21.000 Well well, you know, uh w uh when I was on the show last time, y uh you're asking if I believe those things took place.

01:50:29.000 And uh my answer then was I bel you know, I take it as if it were true.

01:50:34.000 Right.

01:50:35.000 Uh and then I started to think, you know, how I would do that.

01:50:38.000 You know, like in what world would that be true?

01:50:41.000 It'd be a different world.

01:50:43.000 Right.

01:50:45.000 I feel like I've always believed that they were trying to record something.

01:50:51.000 I just didn't always trust that human beings were completely honest with their recollection of events.

01:50:59.000 So that there's something that they were trying to write down.

01:51:02.000 But was it really coming from God?

01:51:05.000 Was it whether are these accurate events?

01:51:08.000 What what exactly happened with Noah and the Ark?

01:51:12.000 What it what really happened?

01:51:14.000 Well, you know, three stories.

01:51:16.000 You know, three you know, three levels.

01:51:21.000 You know, two of each, then seven if you know what one one or two one pair or you know, seven pairs uh of birds.

01:51:29.000 Well, of every living thing.

01:51:31.000 Yeah, but like how's he feeding them?

01:51:32.000 Animals eat other animals, the whole thing's nuts.

01:51:35.000 You would need a lot more rabbits.

01:51:37.000 You need so witty animals to keep just the lions alive.

01:51:40.000 It doesn't make any sense.

01:51:40.000 Right.

01:51:42.000 How's he getting them all from all over the world and do his stupid vote?

01:51:45.000 There's so many things that are wrong.

01:51:45.000 Yeah.

01:51:47.000 But the story of him being told that some shit is go about to go down, and you probably should, you know, find some way to restart your version of civilization somewhere.

01:52:03.000 There's probably multiple ver like the flood myth that we, you know, whatever you want to call it, the the the the stories of the flood that you get from Epic of Gilgamesh that you get from Noah.

01:52:18.000 There's not it's not just those.

01:52:20.000 There's many, many different cultures all throughout history have a flood story, right?

01:52:24.000 So it's probably likely that some crazy shit went down.

01:52:30.000 Uh you know, there may have been you know, there most likely was a f a flood.

01:52:35.000 Uh yeah, you know, so what do you learn from it?

01:52:37.000 You know, like uh how do you do better or on what b on what basis do you rebuild?

01:52:45.000 You know, so I think you know there's you know different models. 0.88

01:52:49.000 You know, the uh the biblical one is interesting 'cause b because um you know, it's a it's um you know, lineage, you know, from Adam to Noah, right to Abraham, you know, Isaac and uh Jacob and the tribes and now.

01:53:13.000 So when you talk about things happening in an alternative dimension, like is that what you think like the birth of mankind is as well, like Adam and Eve.

01:53:25.000 Well, I mean Pull this microphone up.

01:53:28.000 Okay, I'm sorry.

01:53:31.000 Yeah.

01:53:32.000 Uh well, you you know, the creation story.

01:53:35.000 Um man was created on the sixth day.

01:53:38.000 Right.

01:53:39.000 Along with mammals.

01:53:42.000 Yeah, it's a cool story.

01:53:43.000 It's you know, stages.

01:53:45.000 Yeah, like uh you know, people are uh say, well, you know, seven days that's unlikely, like the you know that your creation took place seven times twenty-four, I don't know, hundred and forty eight you know, something like uh one hundred and forty-eight hours, one hundred and sixty-eight hours, the whole world was you know, was created.

01:54:07.000 Uh yeah, but it's broken into stages, you know, seven stages.

01:54:11.000 Uh you know, which is one of the translations of the word that is usually translated day.

01:54:18.000 It could also mean stage.

01:54:19.000 It's the word Yom. 0.95

01:54:21.000 It can mean st either a day, a period of time, a stage.

01:54:25.000 Uh so that's uh you know, that's the answer that makes you sense to me about you know the seven day story of creation.

01:54:34.000 Yeah, so you know, m man was was created on the sixth day and then was placed in the Garden of Eden and you know, those events took place.

01:54:47.000 You know, the stories themselves are just you know they're the you know, they're written down and so people have been studying them for thousands of years.

01:54:55.000 Who do you think Lilith was?

01:54:58.000 No mention of Lilith in the Bible.

01:55:01.000 Really?

01:55:01.000 Yeah.

01:55:02.000 Where's the story of Lilith emerge?

01:55:04.000 Well it comes from what's called Midrash.

01:55:06.000 What's that?

01:55:07.000 Uh comes from a root D R Shah Daraush. 0.93

01:55:13.000 Uh it means to I don't know, explicate, to expand upon, to investigate.

01:55:20.000 You know, so what happened after Adam and Eve sinned, you know, did they have sex again?

01:55:27.000 And they do have it uh Cain and Abel and the ensuing stories, and you know, then there's a third son, Shait, who uh is the inheritor of Adam's good uh uh of his traits, his good traits and bad traits.

01:55:43.000 He's like God as well.

01:55:46.000 So you know there's uh a distinct lineage that uh is you know spelled out.

01:55:51.000 Uh l you know, Lilith was was uh a demon, you know that uh she slept with Adam after the sin of eating from the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. 1.00

01:56:07.000 You know, so there's a uh a s a story that that bib that built up around y um you know the biblical story that they were separated, Adam and Eve were you know, were separated for a long period.

01:56:20.000 And you you know, so who d was Adam sleeping with?

01:56:23.000 Well, it was expanded in the midrash that there is a demoness named Lilith who slept with Adam for me, I don't know, a couple hundred years.

01:56:35.000 Uh and then Adam and Eve reconciled.

01:56:38.000 Whoa.

01:56:40.000 Yeah.

01:56:40.000 So um you know so Lilith is you know, she you know, she doesn't appear in the text of the Hebrew Bible, uh as such.

01:56:53.000 You know, so uh nobody know you know the there's a mythology that's grown around Lilith as well.

01:56:59.000 Well, isn't there some festival, some some music festival called the Logan Festival?

01:57:04.000 Lilith Fair.

01:57:05.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:57:06.000 that's named after the spirit or the demoness who's You sure it wasn't like a lady named Lilith she came up with We sure?

01:57:16.000 It was her neighbor.

01:57:17.000 Lilith uh Swift Smith.

01:57:21.000 Um so what was the reason why the book of Enoch like so it was not included in all the versions of the the Bible by a decision of like how many people?

01:57:35.000 It was like a few rabbis, right? 0.91

01:57:37.000 Um well the canon uh you're talking about there's twenty-two books in the Hebrew Bible.

01:57:44.000 Right.

01:57:44.000 And there there's certain versions of it that they found with the Dead Sea Scrolls like the book of Isaiah that's identical verbatim, which is really amazing, right?

01:57:52.000 Uh yeah, yeah.

01:57:54.000 And there's Aramaic translations.

01:57:55.000 Aramaic was the spoken language back back then back there.

01:57:59.000 But the book of Enoch was a part of all that, the the stuff they found in Qumran too, right?

01:58:04.000 Um Th there m I'm j I'm just not sure.

01:58:08.000 Well, I s I I tried learning about the Book of Enoch.

01:58:12.000 Yeah.

01:58:13.000 Yeah.

01:58:14.000 Um there's only an Ethiopic version, right?

01:58:17.000 Yes.

01:58:18.000 Oh well have you looked into the Book of Enoch?

01:58:18.000 Yeah.

01:58:21.000 Yeah, well I told you I've been listening to it on audio.

01:58:23.000 But uh Ethiopia is a fascinating place.

01:58:26.000 Right?

01:58:26.000 Yeah.

01:58:27.000 Because like that's the place where Graham Hancock started getting interested in the possibility that they have the Ark of the Covenant.

01:58:33.000 They're supposed to be a tribe in Ethiopia.

01:58:33.000 Right.

01:58:36.000 And they all get cataracts and the people that are predicting it, they only live like a certain amount of time and then they die.

01:58:42.000 Yeah.

01:58:43.000 Like if that's true, if any of that's true.

01:58:46.000 If any of that's true.

01:58:47.000 That if the if somehow or another there's people on earth today that have an ark of the covenant.

01:58:54.000 Um how could you keep that a secret?

01:58:57.000 That's the craziest thing to be even allowed to keep a secret.

01:59:01.000 Yeah, it's one of those things you can't even imagine.

01:59:06.000 If they open up a door and like there it is.

01:59:08.000 Oh like like from Raiders of the Lost Ark, melts your face off.

01:59:12.000 Um well, it would contain the Ten Commandments.

01:59:15.000 Yo.

01:59:16.000 Yeah, yeah, the original Ten Commandment.

01:59:18.000 Well, yeah, the original Ten Commandments.

01:59:22.000 Well, what do you think these guys are guarding in Ethiopia where they're getting cataracts? 'Cause when Graham describes it, you're like, if you're telling me the truth, and I think you are, because you've never lied to me yet.

01:59:34.000 If you're telling me the truth, these people that are guarding this place that supposedly has the Ark of the Covenant are all getting like radiation sickness.

01:59:42.000 Yeah.

01:59:43.000 Um Well, yeah, the Ark is hidden.

01:59:47.000 I mean, that's what is you know said in the Hebrew Bible is that it's hidden.

01:59:52.000 So we just don't know what happened.

01:59:56.000 It still has been it hasn't been discovered yet.

01:59:59.000 So it might be in Ethiopia, God only knows.

02:00:02.000 It's just the craziest story ever.

02:00:04.000 Because if it is true, if this one church has the Ark of the Covenant, like, hey guys, let us get a look at it.

02:00:12.000 Yeah.

02:00:14.000 I I hope they got it right.

02:00:16.000 Yeah.

02:00:16.000 Well they should definitely make sure someone doesn't steal it.

02:00:20.000 You know.

02:00:21.000 Yeah.

02:00:22.000 Well the you know, the Ten Commandments.

02:00:23.000 You know, that's appearing in p in in I'm at public schools now.

02:00:28.000 I I had a guy, um, James Tallerico on to talk about that actually, who's a very uh a staunch Christian and thinks it's a terrible idea to have the Ten Commandments in classrooms.

02:00:28.000 Yeah.

02:00:39.000 Why?

02:00:44.000 You're forcing it on them.

02:00:46.000 He's like we we sh we shouldn't d do it that way.

02:00:49.000 And and certainly not do it in a way where you're only gonna have the Ten Commandments and you're not gonna have anything about Buddhism and you're not gonna have anything about Mus Islam, you're not gonna have anything about Baptist or what you know, fill in the blank.

02:01:04.000 Mormons fill in the blank.

02:01:06.000 You know, Scientologists.

02:01:07.000 You'd have to have everything.

02:01:08.000 You have to just keep going forever and ever and ever.

02:01:10.000 And then splinter groups.

02:01:13.000 Yes.

02:01:14.000 So he's got a good RD.

02:01:16.000 I I mean I think he's right.

02:01:17.000 I think they should stop doing that.

02:01:19.000 If you want to teach it in a classroom that someone applies for, that's great.

02:01:24.000 But like putting it on the wall of every class seems kind of insane.

02:01:30.000 Apparently he was saying that it's just a couple of different gentlemen in Texas that are like super wealthy and super Christian and they want this to be like a theocracy.

02:01:42.000 Unfortunately.

02:01:43.000 Where have we heard that before?

02:01:44.000 Uh in the middle ages.

02:01:46.000 Yeah, baby.

02:01:47.000 Well, I just think it's what happens when people get a shit ton of money and a shit ton of power and they start getting older.

02:01:52.000 They need a sport.

02:01:53.000 They need to take up a take up a game that fascinates them instead of trying to like global world dominate.

02:02:01.000 Yeah.

02:02:02.000 It's just people get to positions of extreme wealth and power and they just want to manipulate things and make more money.

02:02:14.000 And they want to do it forever and ever and ever.

02:02:16.000 You only live to be a hundred and twenty.

02:02:16.000 And they can't.

02:02:19.000 If everything goes perfect.

02:02:21.000 Maybe today you might be able to if you can make it to like if you can make it to ninety today, I bet you could live a lot longer.

02:02:28.000 If you live to ninety.

02:02:30.000 Yeah.

02:02:31.000 Like if you can I've I've lived way older than you know than my father.

02:02:36.000 And so I think uh yeah, I I think I'll live a while longer.

02:02:41.000 I I married a young woman.

02:02:43.000 That helps.

02:02:44.000 I need to stay you know, fit.

02:02:46.000 You know that actually does help.

02:02:48.000 Yeah.

02:02:49.000 There's been studies that show that men that date younger women, they have more active lives, they feel healthier.

02:02:56.000 I'm more active.

02:02:58.000 Yeah.

02:02:59.000 But it could be those are the kind of women that are interested in dating that kind of guy. 1.00

02:03:04.000 I just don't know.

02:03:04.000 It's a very yeah.

02:03:05.000 I I I don't know how it works.

02:03:08.000 Um the kind of guys that are more active and healthy would also be the kind of guys that would want to date younger women, so it's a bio buy a sample group, right?

02:03:20.000 Yeah, one of my analysts uh uh said it was a mystery.

02:03:24.000 She had no idea, and she'd been seeing patients for like fifty years.

02:03:28.000 She has she said, you know, I have no idea, it's a mystery.

02:03:31.000 Interesting.

02:03:32.000 And why people get together.

02:03:34.000 Yeah.

02:03:35.000 Well I think whatever makes you happy.

02:03:41.000 Well, that's it.

02:03:42.000 You know, that's you know, that's the book of Ecclesiastes.

02:03:45.000 Uh it's about, you know, it's emptiness, emptiness, it's all emptiness.

02:03:53.000 You know, but uh at near the end you should make your wife happy and uh eat and drink and be merry while you're alive.

02:04:01.000 What do you think of that?

02:04:03.000 It's good advice.

02:04:05.000 Solid advice if I was living two thousand years ago, I'd probably say the same thing.

02:04:08.000 Right.

02:04:09.000 Yeah.

02:04:11.000 There's no medicine, you have no antibiotics, there's no orthopedic surgeons that are gonna put your knee back together again.

02:04:17.000 Yeah, I'd say that too.

02:04:19.000 Yeah, it is bad when you have one doctor for every organ system.

02:04:29.000 Yeah.

02:04:31.000 They didn't know anything.

02:04:32.000 Mm-hmm.

02:04:32.000 That's nuts.

02:04:33.000 I mean, how many people died of infections back then?

02:04:36.000 We're w what just that alone.

02:04:38.000 That's extended life life like just antibiotics alone.

02:04:42.000 It's extended lifespan so much because so many people that would have probably died got got healthy again.

02:04:49.000 So many people.

02:04:51.000 And those people can maybe figure out some new way to bridge this gap and stop these viruses and stop this and stop that.

02:04:58.000 And then we just keep getting better at it until we eventually get to the point where we're living as long as Noah.

02:05:04.000 Six hundred years for Noah.

02:05:06.000 And that's what probably when God gets fed up.

02:05:08.000 He's like, enough.

02:05:09.000 Well you fucking animals.

02:05:12.000 Maybe that's like maybe we're gonna repeat that process.

02:05:15.000 Maybe we're gonna like figure out some awesome new peptides to keep you alive for five hundred years and everyone's gonna be a dick to everybody else.

02:05:21.000 Uh and then eventually God'll just have to drown us again.

02:05:25.000 Um in uh I'm in college, uh, we had to read a book about uh the funeral home industry in Southern California.

02:05:33.000 Yeah, I read uh uh it's this little novel by Altus Huxley for Many a Summer Dies of Swan.

02:05:33.000 Oh yeah.

02:05:39.000 It's about these people who live forever by eating the intestinal microbiome of carp.

02:05:46.000 Oh wow.

02:05:47.000 And they become like carp in a l in a lot of ways.

02:05:52.000 And I tried to you know get into one of these funeral homes, like you know, uh asked to be uh I asked to interview them to you s see you know what people you know you know did after death.

02:06:04.000 Uh and you know never heard back.

02:06:07.000 Um one of those you know crazy college stories uh about um looking into the funeral home industry.

02:06:16.000 Uh you know, which is uh I don't know, uh that's pretty big.

02:06:23.000 Yeah, it's a weird business.

02:06:25.000 You get the business of taking care of bodies.

02:06:28.000 And you don't don't really have a lot of options.

02:06:31.000 Like you're not l like if someone dies, I don't think you're are you just allowed to let them fertilize some plants.

02:06:31.000 Right?

02:06:39.000 Are you allowed to do that?

02:06:41.000 Yeah, I I I you know like I do have to put them in formaldehyde, do you have to do all that stuff?

02:06:46.000 Uh I mean I you did an autopsy on a cadaver, you know, and uh um back in the day.

02:06:53.000 Open people up and look at them.

02:06:54.000 Well, then there's you know, surgery, which you go through as well.

02:06:58.000 Right.

02:07:09.000 That was an odd pause.

02:07:12.000 I was like, where are we going with this conversation?

02:07:14.000 I know.

02:07:17.000 Well, I love the Hebrew Bible.

02:07:19.000 I sp I spent all my time in it.

02:07:21.000 Just the weirdest thing there is.

02:07:23.000 Like Do you do you um have any idea why the book of Enoch was supposedly excluded from being included in the Bible?

02:07:32.000 Yeah.

02:07:32.000 Seems to be some debate about that, right?

02:07:34.000 Yeah.

02:07:35.000 Yeah.

02:07:36.000 I know.

02:07:37.000 There's uh yeah, there was uh I think the Dead Sea Scroll community used the Book of Enoch.

02:07:44.000 Yeah, it was like their Bible.

02:07:46.000 Right.

02:07:47.000 Yeah.

02:07:47.000 Very strange.

02:07:49.000 Well, the thing about the Book of Enoch is really, you know, g very psychedelic.

02:07:55.000 Uh but there's not that much uh like I don't think there's much in it as far as you know, Judaism itself.

02:08:04.000 I mean, it's that discussion of the righteous being rewarded and the evil being punished, the evil people being punished.

02:08:11.000 But you don't really learn what it means to be righteous.

02:08:15.000 And you don't really learn in from the book of Enoch what it's meant to be evil.

02:08:20.000 Um you don't know how yeah, there isn't all that much information, I don't think in there.

02:08:25.000 It's it's historical and it's really weird astronomical stuff too.

02:08:30.000 Um but I think um it it may not have been included in the tech in the Hebrew Bible because there weren't any ethical teachings.

02:08:38.000 Uh in c that one that that could be uh you know had by reading it.

02:08:44.000 No ethical teachings that could be had by reading it.

02:08:47.000 What do you mean by that?

02:08:48.000 Yeah, I mean you w one of the essences of Judaism I think is monot is ethical monotheism.

02:08:56.000 Yeah, that's where you know there's the you know the golden rule and there's one God.

02:09:00.000 Yeah, it's so it's ethical m monotheism.

02:09:04.000 Um where were we?

02:09:12.000 Where were we?

02:09:13.000 Yeah, just just then.

02:09:15.000 Um we were talking about the Hebrew Bible and we were talking about what else were we talking about?

02:09:21.000 We were talking why why Enoch was why the book of Enoch was in the Dead Sea Scrolls community, but it wasn't accepted later.

02:09:29.000 Um but some parts of the Dead Sea Scrolls like the book of Isaiah, right?

02:09:33.000 That was the one that was found to be the oldest version of it that was verbatim.

02:09:38.000 Well, yeah, it I think it's just you know it was too psychedelic.

02:09:38.000 Yeah.

02:09:42.000 And it it was a too psychedelic.

02:09:44.000 Yeah, I think uh uh I mean at least in Ezekiel, let's say, which is comparable, you know, Daniel too, it's quite psychedelic.

02:09:52.000 Um those were some ethical you know, some historical narrative.

02:09:57.000 But imagine making that call.

02:09:59.000 Imagine making that call.

02:10:01.000 How how long ago?

02:10:02.000 Right, a long time ago.

02:10:03.000 To take that story out.

02:10:05.000 I don't I'm not buying this one, guys.

02:10:07.000 Leave it out.

02:10:08.000 Meanwhile, that's the one that's the most compelling to me.

02:10:12.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:10:13.000 So what what what do you like about the book of Enoch?

02:10:16.000 It was just so bizarre.

02:10:17.000 It's very 'cause it makes the whole thing, it's like, oh, okay, now I get the big story.

02:10:22.000 The whole story's crazy.

02:10:24.000 And the origin story.

02:10:26.000 The the Book of Enoch, like as it starts, like in the very first chapter, you're like, wait, what's going on?

02:10:32.000 Uh-huh.

02:10:34.000 Fornication with humans and the a race of giants?

02:10:37.000 Like what?

02:10:38.000 What are you guys describing?

02:10:40.000 Yeah.

02:10:41.000 Things coming down and watchers?

02:10:43.000 What are you guys talking about?

02:10:44.000 Like what was this?

02:10:46.000 This is so left field of the rest of the Bible.

02:10:51.000 But it was included in the same like those clay pots that they found in Qumran.

02:10:57.000 It was in there too.

02:11:00.000 Just you don't know what to believe.

02:11:02.000 Like what happened there?

02:11:04.000 Well, yeah, you you you might not not know what to believe, but uh you can also believe in one um way of doing it as well.

02:11:14.000 One way of doing it?

02:11:16.000 Mm-hmm.

02:11:16.000 As long as you don't get doctrine error.

02:11:19.000 Right.

02:11:20.000 Okay.

02:11:20.000 Yeah.

02:11:21.000 You just do it yourself.

02:11:22.000 Well, when I think about it, I just go blank.

02:11:25.000 I just try to imagine.

02:11:26.000 Like, what are they even describing?

02:11:29.000 Like what what does any of that stuff mean?

02:11:34.000 It just seems so alien.

02:11:36.000 There's watchers and they mate with humans and they create the Nephilim giants that consume and destroy the earth. 0.99

02:11:43.000 Like just so imagine if that was left into the Bible and they taught that in school, you'd be like, what happened?

02:11:51.000 Yeah.

02:11:51.000 It sounds completely crazy.

02:11:54.000 Yeah, it was a mistake.

02:11:55.000 Yeah, that's why there is the flood.

02:11:57.000 The work was filled with the violence of the Nephilim. 1.00

02:12:01.000 I believe it.

02:12:02.000 The reason of the flood.

02:12:03.000 I mean, look, if we're this size, you know, and we have so many problems with each other.

02:12:08.000 Imagine something that's like triple the size of us that's running around with us, just picking us up and beating us over the head with each other.

02:12:16.000 Yeah, you know, one of the figures in the text is uh Og and Sihon, uh who are the kings of the Amirites uh in the land before the Hebrews take over.

02:12:28.000 And uh you know they were giants that they're believed to be giants.

02:12:32.000 Uh they talk about how the you know bed of one of these kings, Ogur Sihon, was like nine feet long or something.

02:12:42.000 Yeah, you know, so there were a c a couple still still alive back then.

02:12:47.000 So do you think those are real humans?

02:12:50.000 There were giants.

02:12:51.000 So you think they were real giants for sure.

02:12:53.000 Are you a hundred percent convinced that giants roamed the earth?

02:12:56.000 Like there was fifteen foot tall humans?

02:12:59.000 Monstrous humans?

02:13:00.000 It m may not have occurred.

02:13:02.000 Well, that that's the um reason that I think that there's some alternative universe that's as real as this one, which was the yes the site of the stories.

02:13:17.000 So when you say there's an alternative universe that's as real as this one, do you think we dance back and forth between possible universes?

02:13:26.000 Do you think we're always in the constant same universe?

02:13:29.000 Or do you think like this concept of parallel universes or alternative universes, that these you go back and forth between these?

02:13:38.000 Uh now?

02:13:39.000 No, I think they're they're pretty well separated.

02:13:42.000 Don't you?

02:13:43.000 So you think that the world was a different place back then and that the the doorway to go back and forth was easier to traverse?

02:13:52.000 Uh it was one directional and it kind of was one level of reality s kind of you know, segueing into this one.

02:14:00.000 So do you think these things involved psychedelics while they were doing this?

02:14:03.000 While they were writing all this stuff down?

02:14:05.000 Uh no.

02:14:06.000 No.

02:14:06.000 Well, it it I think it involved being attuned to a level, you know, that level of of reality.

02:14:13.000 Yeah, which would be mediated through DMT in some ways.

02:14:17.000 The visions would be mediated through DMT.

02:14:20.000 Yeah.

02:14:21.000 You wonder what's possible too if you're living in a world like we we can't even imagine living in a world we're not environmentally poisoned.

02:14:30.000 Like we are we're constantly surrounded by Wi-Fi and 5G and we're eating microplastics and glyphosate is on every vegetable and it there's we're like in a swoop, we're in a soup of toxins.

02:14:46.000 We can't even imagine what it's like to not have that and to not be burdened down by electronics and all the different things that people like they're probably very different back then.

02:14:58.000 Just just human beings in general.

02:14:59.000 I I bet they're probably very different in a lot of ways.

02:15:03.000 Yeah, that's one of the reasons I like living uh in Gallup.

02:15:07.000 It was really kind of uh simple.

02:15:12.000 Simple.

02:15:12.000 Yeah.

02:15:13.000 Yeah, there wasn't much Wi-Fi in there.

02:15:15.000 Yeah.

02:15:16.000 It was just uh simple's good for you.

02:15:19.000 It's not perfect though.

02:15:24.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:15:25.000 You called me when I was living in Gallup and you said to me, Why are you living there?

02:15:33.000 You're telling me there's nothing around you.

02:15:35.000 It was like why are you living where there's nothing around you?

02:15:37.000 That's crazy.

02:15:38.000 Yeah.

02:15:38.000 Get out of there.

02:15:42.000 Well had to go through it.

02:15:43.000 I don't think there's anything wrong with going through phases, but I think ultimately people like to be around people.

02:15:48.000 Just but it's you know, there's a point where there's too many people, and then people become like a nuisance to you.

02:15:55.000 You're stuck on the 405 and like, oh my god, look at this traffic.

02:15:59.000 Where are all these people going?

02:16:01.000 And you know, and then people become a burden.

02:16:04.000 There's a bur there's a nice balance to be had somewhere in there.

02:16:08.000 I don't think it's like living in in the woods by yourself.

02:16:11.000 I think that's the dream.

02:16:13.000 It is a weird dream.

02:16:15.000 Yeah, it it was uh inspired by acid.

02:16:17.000 So it's a little bit problem is there's you're if you're in the woods by yourself, there's things out there that want to eat you.

02:16:25.000 Yeah.

02:16:27.000 If you're by yourself, they're gonna know where you are all the time.

02:16:30.000 Yeah, well, unless I was cross-country skiing up in the mountains behind Gallup, and I was being tracked by a mountain lion.

02:16:35.000 Of course you were.

02:16:36.000 Seemed like it must be a course you were.

02:16:39.000 Probably thinking about taking you out.

02:16:41.000 Yeah, probably thinking about taking you out.

02:16:43.000 At a certain point, I turned around.

02:16:44.000 Yeah.

02:16:45.000 Yeah, because if you look like you're out of breath, you look like you're tired, like if they think you're limping or something like that.

02:16:51.000 Oh my god, they can't help themselves.

02:16:52.000 And the woods are really getting dark around me.

02:16:54.000 So not good.

02:16:55.000 It's good to it's time to turn around.

02:16:57.000 Not good.

02:16:59.000 They're fucking terrifying.

02:16:59.000 Yeah.

02:17:01.000 And people have this romantic idea of what a mountain lion is.

02:17:05.000 You say that until it kills your dog in front of you.

02:17:08.000 Listen to me.

02:17:09.000 Those are dangerous predators.

02:17:11.000 California is the most ridiculous way of handling it.

02:17:15.000 They they have to hire people to go kill 'em. 0.98

02:17:15.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:17:18.000 And when they find mountain lions.

02:17:20.000 And when they do, they find that fifty percent of their diet is pets.

02:17:20.000 Yeah.

02:17:27.000 You've got something that one hundred percent eats your dogs and cats and you're allowing it to live in the woods near your house.

02:17:34.000 Like this is kooky.

02:17:36.000 Yeah.

02:17:37.000 Plenty of them in the mountains, kids.

02:17:39.000 Okay.

02:17:40.000 Yeah, coyotes are into pets. 1.00

02:17:42.000 Oh yeah.

02:17:42.000 Yeah.

02:17:43.000 If a c if if if a cat is lost for more than a few days around our neighborhood, that's pretty much it.

02:17:43.000 Oh yeah.

02:17:48.000 Oh, if you just let your cat out, you're basically like saying, You're gonna get eaten.

02:17:53.000 I I know it.

02:17:53.000 Yeah.

02:17:54.000 You probably don't know it because you're just a cat.

02:17:56.000 Well, you're gonna get eaten.

02:17:57.000 That's why you put them out.

02:17:59.000 They're everywhere now, too.

02:18:00.000 Coyotes are in every single city in the United States.

02:18:04.000 Yeah, uh you've seen coyotes.

02:18:06.000 Oh, fuck yeah.

02:18:07.000 Yeah, they lope across the road.

02:18:09.000 Yeah.

02:18:10.000 I've had coyote problems where they broke into my chicken coop and killed all my chickens.

02:18:15.000 Yeah, coyotes do that. 0.99

02:18:16.000 Yeah, they're they're smart too, man.

02:18:18.000 They're fascinating.

02:18:19.000 Yeah.

02:18:19.000 They they trick dogs into chasing after them and then they all ambush them.

02:18:24.000 Yeah.

02:18:24.000 They're very clever.

02:18:26.000 Yeah.

02:18:26.000 Clever.

02:18:27.000 You used to watch the you know, wily coyote.

02:18:30.000 He was an idiot.

02:18:31.000 That was so dumb.

02:18:32.000 Yeah, there's a lot of roadrunners in our neighborhood.

02:18:34.000 Crazy.

02:18:35.000 The the idea that the roadrunner would be smarter than a coyote.

02:18:37.000 Coyotes are so clever. 0.90

02:18:39.000 They're have you ever read Dan Flores' book, Coyote America?

02:18:43.000 It's really good.

02:18:43.000 No.

02:18:44.000 It's about the origin of the coyote and why the coyote is everywhere now.

02:18:48.000 And part of it is because of the persecution by the gray wolf.

02:18:52.000 So the gray wolves don't mate with the coyotes, but the red wolves do.

02:18:56.000 The gre the gray wolves, so they're from a totally different line.

02:19:00.000 So they do just kill the coyotes.

02:19:02.000 Because the coyote is just a small wolf.

02:19:04.000 And so what they figured out is that when a coyote dies, and like when they yell out, it it's like roll call.

02:19:11.000 And if someone's missing, the females produce more pups.

02:19:15.000 So they have extra pups.

02:19:17.000 And then they spread.

02:19:18.000 So they extra pups and then they move to a new place.

02:19:20.000 And by doing just because they were persecuted by the grey wolves, when they started getting persecuted by humans, you know, like so human beings m extradited wolves.

02:19:29.000 They They killed them all off, except for a few in the upper northern parts of the United States with strychnine.

02:19:37.000 But they couldn't do it with coyotes.

02:19:38.000 The coyotes just kept moving around and separate.

02:19:40.000 They just went to different spots.

02:19:42.000 They're super smart.

02:19:42.000 They're very smart.

02:19:43.000 They're in New York City right now.

02:19:45.000 Right now, there's coyotes in Central Park in New York City.

02:19:48.000 Little wild wolves running around Central Park.

02:19:51.000 Yeah.

02:19:52.000 Coexisting.

02:19:53.000 Just big enough where they don't look threatening.

02:19:56.000 They're just a clever little player of nature's game.

02:20:01.000 Wily coyote. 0.96

02:20:02.000 It's a really good book though.

02:20:04.000 But it's also about like you know, I could have sworn John McPhee wrote about coyotes.

02:20:10.000 Remember John McPhee out in that country, his Alaska book.

02:20:15.000 Well, I'm sure he probably wrote a book about coyotes too.

02:20:17.000 This is just different.

02:20:18.000 This is uh about the origins of you know coyote mythology amongst Native Americans and that there's thought to be a trickster and it's you just uh it is a uniquely American animal.

02:20:31.000 You know, it adapts.

02:20:33.000 Yeah.

02:20:34.000 Well that's too bad as eating your chickens.

02:20:36.000 Yeah, it was shit happens.

02:20:38.000 Sorry to hear that.

02:20:39.000 Yeah.

02:20:39.000 Well, it happened.

02:20:40.000 They got them they got they killed them all.

02:20:42.000 My my chickens in California.

02:20:43.000 They got into it with a chicken coop and they killed like nine of them.

02:20:46.000 So the chicken coop got damaged because of the fire.

02:20:49.000 So we had to uh get another chicken coop set up.

02:20:52.000 And so when we're set up the other chicken coop, it was one that you just buy from like a pet store and it wasn't that durable, and the the coyotes figured out how to open it.

02:21:01.000 And they just fucked up these chickens. 0.99

02:21:02.000 Ooh, it's a mask back.

02:21:05.000 It was just all feathers.

02:21:05.000 Yeah.

02:21:07.000 Feathers and blood.

02:21:08.000 Yeah, it was horrible.

02:21:09.000 They just went on a they just killed them all.

02:21:12.000 They killed them all.

02:21:13.000 They killed like nine of them.

02:21:16.000 But uh, you know, that's the fucking game they play.

02:21:20.000 And I love that they exist.

02:21:22.000 I'm uh a fan of coyotes.

02:21:24.000 I like hearing them at night.

02:21:25.000 I think they're cool.

02:21:26.000 I don't want 'em to eat my dog though.

02:21:28.000 You know, it's like and you know they're not gonna listen.

02:21:31.000 You're like, hey, don't eat my dog and we're cool.

02:21:33.000 No, they're they're playing a game.

02:21:35.000 It's like wait till you turn your back and they'll attack your toddler.

02:21:39.000 I th I think besides m m you know, m movie trailers, the things I watch on YouTube most are animals killing other animals.

02:21:48.000 You know, bear you versus a musk uh, you know, muscle great stories. 1.00

02:21:54.000 Uh it's pretty primal.

02:21:56.000 It is.

02:21:56.000 Yeah, I like that.

02:21:57.000 Yeah.

02:21:58.000 It's pretty interesting.

02:21:59.000 These people were um in India and they were on some sort of a a park drive, you know, one of the wildlife parks, and they watched a tiger take out an animal right in front of 'em.

02:22:10.000 A tiger took out a deer right in front of them.

02:22:14.000 And they filmed it.

02:22:16.000 Like, what's was you know p cool well the ones I like are the warthogs. 0.99

02:22:22.000 Oh, they're so weird looking, aren't they?

02:22:24.000 Yeah.

02:22:24.000 They're vicious.

02:22:25.000 They're huge.

02:22:26.000 They look like uh Star Wars character.

02:22:28.000 They don't even look like a real animal.

02:22:29.000 Yeah.

02:22:30.000 It's unkosher pork.

02:22:32.000 Interesting thing.

02:22:34.000 Unkosher pigs, yeah. 0.96

02:22:37.000 Yeah, the things which are kosher, you know, chew cut and have completely split and separate hoops. 0.71

02:22:44.000 Yeah.

02:22:44.000 Right.

02:22:45.000 But uh those are the main criteria for mammals.

02:22:48.000 Do you think that's because of ancient diseases?

02:22:53.000 Because it just makes sense that we we know that uh trichinosis.

02:22:58.000 Uh a lot of that comes from pork.

02:23:01.000 Right?

02:23:02.000 It always seemed to me pigs are dirty animals.

02:23:04.000 But I I had a friend who was insistent that uh given the choice, pigs are very clean animals.

02:23:11.000 So it's hard to say about the filth aspect of it.

02:23:14.000 That's domestic pigs. 1.00

02:23:16.000 Um wild pigs are filthy animals.

02:23:18.000 Wild pigs.

02:23:19.000 Yeah.

02:23:20.000 All of them.

02:23:22.000 There's a difference between like a domestic pig. 0.99

02:23:25.000 This is where it gets really weird.

02:23:27.000 You take a domestic pig and you let it loose in the wild, and six weeks later it starts to f morph.

02:23:33.000 And it starts to ex extend it, the snout, its tusks grow longer, its fur gets thicker, it becomes like a wild pig.

02:23:40.000 That's kooky.

02:23:42.000 Yeah, I guess the primitive or the early stages are really strong.

02:23:48.000 Yeah.

02:23:49.000 It happens quickly, like within a month or two.

02:23:52.000 It's really weird.

02:23:53.000 Yeah.

02:23:54.000 Yeah, I wonder how that works.

02:23:55.000 It must be some edicrine thing.

02:23:57.000 Must be their you know, gonads and their pituitary and their hypothalamus. 1.00

02:24:03.000 It's a really good question because like what would let them hit that switch and realize okay, I'm on my own now, they're not just bringing me my food every day.

02:24:11.000 Fuck.

02:24:12.000 Time to get hard.

02:24:14.000 Yeah.

02:24:16.000 Well, it isn't a conscious decision on their part.

02:24:18.000 Yeah.

02:24:19.000 It seems like it just takes over.

02:24:21.000 But I was thinking like if the if that animal is not um like the Muslims don't eat it, and the Jews don't eat it. 0.97

02:24:29.000 And you would imagine at a time where food was really important, and if you can get pork that was way better than not having any meat, and you can't eat it because of your religion.

02:24:40.000 To me, it seems like I bet at least some of the origin of that was there was a disease that was going through these people that were eating pigs.

02:24:49.000 It's hard to say.

02:24:52.000 You know, the ones that are kosher are the ones which were burnt up in sacrifice as well. 0.94

02:24:57.000 You know, there are sheep and cattle.

02:25:02.000 Pull that microphone up to your mouth.

02:25:04.000 Sheep and cattle and goats.

02:25:07.000 Right.

02:25:08.000 Yeah.

02:25:09.000 Those were the sacrificial animals.

02:25:10.000 You know, the ones that were burnt on the altar, and also the ones that were eaten.

02:25:14.000 But do you think that why do you think pork was excluded from both Judaism and also from Islam?

02:25:22.000 Consumption of pork.

02:25:23.000 Yeah, it didn't meet the criteria.

02:25:26.000 The m the criteria for what?

02:25:27.000 Uh for a kosher meat.

02:25:30.000 It's just cud and needs to have a completely separated completely split hoof. 1.00

02:25:35.000 No, I get that, but I mean why why did they come up with that rule?

02:25:38.000 Oh, yeah.

02:25:38.000 I think it seems to be that those are the animals that have the most amount of trichinosis, unless you're eating bears.

02:25:45.000 So I don't know if they're eating any bears back then.

02:25:47.000 Probably not.

02:25:48.000 They're probably eating a lot of deer species.

02:25:50.000 And if you tried to eat that kind of wild pork back then and you didn't cook it correctly, you probably get violently ill or die.

02:25:57.000 Uh well, you you know uh th there are causes.

02:26:01.000 Uh you know, th there are reasons for some of the precepts in the text.

02:26:08.000 It must be, right?

02:26:09.000 Yeah.

02:26:09.000 That are medically established.

02:26:11.000 Yeah.

02:26:12.000 Like shellfish probably has to do with red tide, right?

02:26:15.000 Uh well, bottom dwellers.

02:26:17.000 Bottom dwellers.

02:26:18.000 Yeah.

02:26:21.000 It's interesting when you you try to decipher like why did they have that stuff in there?

02:26:26.000 Well, kind of makes sense.

02:26:28.000 Pork d pigs rather do carry a bunch of diseases that can wreck human beings.

02:26:34.000 Yeah.

02:26:35.000 Well, the person then making the dietary laws n knew that.

02:26:40.000 You think that's uh the reason they wrote those dietary laws.

02:26:45.000 Yeah, well, they didn't have meat thermometers back then, right?

02:26:47.000 So I bet a lot of people ate some medium rare pork or rare pork even and got violently ill.

02:26:53.000 Yeah.

02:26:53.000 Violently ill.

02:26:55.000 Like trichinosis apparently is brutal.

02:26:57.000 It and you have it for life.

02:26:59.000 So that like if somebody eats you, they get trichinosis, unless they cook it.

02:27:04.000 Yeah, I had C. diff some years ago.

02:27:06.000 I even wrote a book out about uh about what is C diff?

02:27:10.000 It's potentially fatal diarrhea.

02:27:14.000 Oh no.

02:27:15.000 It was grim.

02:27:15.000 Yeah.

02:27:16.000 I wrote well then you know that's right.

02:27:18.000 That's the one I just couldn't do anything for.

02:27:20.000 Oh, that's right, that's right.

02:27:21.000 I forgot that you had that.

02:27:23.000 Yeah, so uh I wrote a book about it.

02:27:26.000 anybody's interested, Joseph Levy escapes death.

02:27:34.000 You know, maybe that's part of me enjoying watching certain animals, you know, like you know, animal killing animal.

02:27:41.000 It kind of changes you that being, you know, that being that close to the edge.

02:27:50.000 I'm sure.

02:27:52.000 Yeah, you even offered to come out, you know, to visit or to you know do a show at my house.

02:27:58.000 Yeah, when you were real struggling and we were going back and forth, you just weren't sure if you could travel.

02:28:04.000 I was like, ooh.

02:28:05.000 I was worried about you.

02:28:07.000 Yeah, thanks.

02:28:08.000 Because you bounded back.

02:28:09.000 Look at you, you look great.

02:28:10.000 Thanks.

02:28:11.000 But there was a time where I was worried about you because it didn't you didn't sound like you were doing well at all.

02:28:16.000 Like you were really struggling.

02:28:19.000 And so Yeah, that's one of the things that pushed Well, I began reading concentration in camp literature during that phase.

02:28:28.000 Really?

02:28:29.000 Like, how bad have people had it and what do they do?

02:28:32.000 Wow.

02:28:32.000 It was pretty inspiring.

02:28:35.000 Uh I liked reading Primo Levy.

02:28:38.000 He's my f my favorite author, Ellie Vzell too.

02:28:42.000 Yeah.

02:28:43.000 Uh Auschwitz and the end of Auschwitz. 0.72

02:28:46.000 Like, you know, the end, the last month or two.

02:28:48.000 Mm-hmm.

02:28:49.000 Uh seemed like it was really something.

02:28:51.000 You know, typhus and nobody cleaning up after them for weeks, things freezing and bursting.

02:28:57.000 It was just nuts.

02:28:59.000 So you know, Primo Levy was a chemist, very clinical, took notes, remembered things in very kind of dispassionate, almost journalistic description.

02:29:09.000 The other kinds of things people can go through.

02:29:12.000 Yeah, you know, so that cheered me up in a way.

02:29:14.000 I mean, it m distracted me like boy, they had you know, they had it way worse.

02:29:20.000 And they had faith in something.

02:29:23.000 So I just I th I think that helps uh you know, strengthen my faith.

02:29:28.000 Like God wasn't done with me.

02:29:33.000 So did you feel like you had an obligation to get to work once you got healthy again?

02:29:39.000 Like God gave you this chance.

02:29:41.000 Yeah.

02:29:42.000 This bounce back, return of the Mac.

02:29:45.000 Thank God.

02:29:47.000 Yeah, it's great to see you looking healthy because I really did worry.

02:29:53.000 Sometimes people a bad health trip takes them just takes them down and and weakens them so much that they never really come back.

02:30:02.000 Yeah.

02:30:03.000 Well, you think about death.

02:30:04.000 You must think about death.

02:30:05.000 Sure.

02:30:06.000 I think about death.

02:30:07.000 You have to.

02:30:08.000 It's it's coming whether you want it or not.

02:30:10.000 Be interesting to not think about death.

02:30:12.000 Yeah.

02:30:13.000 I don't dwell on it, but I'm I'm definitely aware of it.

02:30:16.000 Yeah, there was a a week or two uh friends came over talking about you know their their their wishes or their interest in medically assisted death.

02:30:27.000 Mm.

02:30:28.000 There was a big article about that even a couple of months ago in one of the British journals.

02:30:34.000 Uh yeah.

02:30:36.000 Medically s unassisted death.

02:30:38.000 I I you called our rabbi and I asked his advice.

02:30:43.000 And he said, you know, you might be, you know, you you may be obligated to knock the pills onto the floor.

02:30:53.000 I thought that was interesting take.

02:30:55.000 You may be obligated to knock the pills onto the floor.

02:30:58.000 From the person's hand who's about to take them.

02:31:01.000 Well that would yeah.

02:31:03.000 Interesting.

02:31:04.000 Or you know, within uh or uh more the equivalent, you know, like you know, you there might be some drugs going in IV would uh stop them up.

02:31:17.000 Um yeah, you know, so uh well uh yeah, I like I I feel pretty good.

02:31:23.000 So I wonder, well, you know, what happens if I start feeling really bad.

02:31:28.000 Yeah.

02:31:29.000 So uh, you know, I feel good, so I figure well it just keep me out of pain.

02:31:34.000 You know, give me enough of you know morphine.

02:31:37.000 See what happens.

02:31:38.000 My mom died, I watched her die.

02:31:40.000 And we gave her morphine out of van too, like palium.

02:31:40.000 Oh wow.

02:31:46.000 Yeah, it was pretty uh peaceful.

02:31:49.000 Yeah, but it it was quiet.

02:31:51.000 Yeah.

02:31:53.000 That's a weird thing because you don't want anybody poisoning anybody.

02:31:58.000 But you do want to give people the option to go out gracefully.

02:32:02.000 Well, I think you'd just be feeling great.

02:32:05.000 Exactly.

02:32:05.000 Yeah.

02:32:06.000 You'd be feeling that would be gracefully.

02:32:08.000 Right.

02:32:08.000 Just one burst.

02:32:10.000 I had um a morphine drip when I had my knee operated on once in the nineties.

02:32:16.000 And it was incredible.

02:32:18.000 It was incredible.

02:32:19.000 And I r people tell me this is not true, but I swear I remember this being true. 1.00

02:32:24.000 That you could press the button any time you wanted more morphine.

02:32:28.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:32:29.000 I think it's called patient controlled analogies or something.

02:32:32.000 Yeah.

02:32:33.000 People are like, no, no, you're remembering it wrong.

02:32:35.000 I'm like, I don't think I am, man.

02:32:37.000 I really remember hitting that button a bunch of times and meeting Jesus.

02:32:41.000 It was like a the the most wonderful loving hug by the universe.

02:32:48.000 It was just like this thing in bed while my leg is on this uh continual motion machine.

02:32:54.000 You know what those are?

02:32:55.000 Uh no, but I can imagine.

02:32:57.000 When they do ACL reconstructions, when they do a patella tendon graph, it's a pretty violent operation.

02:33:02.000 They have to cut your knee open like a fish. 0.98

02:33:04.000 They take a slice of your patella tendon along with a chunk of your bone from your shin and a chunk of your bone from your kneecap, and then they screw it all back in place.

02:33:13.000 And to keep it from seizing up while you're lying in bed, your leg is on this machine that goes like this, extends it and brings it back, extends it and brings it back.

02:33:24.000 Were you awake when this was happening?

02:33:26.000 Oh yeah, you're awake.

02:33:27.000 Yeah, I was awake for the operation.

02:33:28.000 Because my thought is I'm only gonna have one knee operation.

02:33:31.000 I want to be awake for it.

02:33:32.000 So they did like an epidural.

02:33:34.000 Epidural, yeah.

02:33:35.000 Yeah.

02:33:35.000 So I was awake.

02:33:36.000 I watched it.

02:33:37.000 I watched it on a monitor.

02:33:38.000 It was crazy.

02:33:39.000 Crazy to watch this guy open my knee up, screw it in place.

02:33:42.000 Um the point is while I was in the hospital bed, they had this button that you could press when you wanted more morphine.

02:33:50.000 Yeah.

02:33:50.000 And I hit that button like a bunch of times and I was like, wow.

02:33:55.000 It felt incredible.

02:33:58.000 And I only did and I remember also thinking, boy, this could be a problem.

02:34:02.000 Cause I I had done construction with a guy who had a bit of a heroin problem.

02:34:07.000 And so I was aware that people would get like a real opiate problem.

02:34:11.000 And when I was in bed, I was like, I get it.

02:34:14.000 I get it now.

02:34:15.000 It feels it feels amazing.

02:34:17.000 Yeah.

02:34:18.000 Well, I would say cool, but yeah.

02:34:20.000 But also I knew that like my leg was fucked.

02:34:23.000 I knew it was going to take forever before it felt normal again.

02:34:25.000 It was in pain and like just like, okay, I can't do anything but enjoy this right now.

02:34:31.000 Just like let me take a couple of taps and we know anymore.

02:34:37.000 It's called God's medicine for uh you know, God's own medicine for a reason.

02:34:41.000 Yeah.

02:34:41.000 It felt like a hug.

02:34:45.000 Well well interesting you mentioned that one day uh the you were uh you know talking about faith and belief and what you base it on.

02:34:45.000 Yeah.

02:34:55.000 Um I was just talking about how uh when I was living up in Tawis, I was feeling kind of alone and sad.

02:35:02.000 And I prayed, you know, I prayed to God, you know, help me.

02:35:06.000 And uh I felt this loving hug kind of embraced me at the at the moment.

02:35:12.000 Yeah.

02:35:13.000 Which must have been you know, mediated probably by endorphins too.

02:35:18.000 Right.

02:35:20.000 Yeah, sounds pretty similar.

02:35:22.000 But it's interesting that we always want to like dismiss anything positive like that.

02:35:26.000 Oh, it's probably just endorphins just giving you this good feeling.

02:35:30.000 Like right.

02:35:30.000 But uh is endorphins because of or the source of.

02:35:36.000 Like which one is it?

02:35:37.000 We it m it might just be a part of it.

02:35:40.000 Like, yeah, the endorphins are real, but also is the experience.

02:35:43.000 It's the experience that that you're experiencing, you know.

02:35:46.000 And the intention that you're putting out there.

02:35:47.000 Right.

02:35:48.000 You're not you know feeling the endorphins attaching to the receptors.

02:35:52.000 Exactly.

02:35:52.000 Yeah.

02:35:53.000 You feel wonderful.

02:35:54.000 Yeah.

02:35:55.000 There's something real to it.

02:35:57.000 Yeah, you know, drugs are interesting.

02:36:00.000 They are.

02:36:01.000 Well, I'm I just wish they uh weren't being controlled by the cartels.

02:36:06.000 Yeah.

02:36:06.000 That's what's crazy.

02:36:09.000 Like people are not gonna stop using.

02:36:10.000 I don't think I think there's a lot of drugs you should never use, kids.

02:36:13.000 And there's a lot of people that should never use any drugs.

02:36:16.000 But the fact that they are always going to, and that the only way they can get 'em is through a criminal organization, and we haven't done our fucking one plus one equals two on that still in 2025.

02:36:28.000 Yeah.

02:36:28.000 Well, d a dispensary for everything you want.

02:36:32.000 Well, it's gotta be more than that, man, because some of that stuff's heavy.

02:36:35.000 So it's not just gonna be an exp dispensary, but it's also has to be some sort of uh counseling center, some sort of uh a guided trip.

02:36:45.000 There's gotta be like very clear ethics.

02:36:47.000 You know, you gotta have uh people that really know what they're doing and just want to help and don't have any weird narcissistic intentions or anything else, they just want to help people.

02:36:58.000 You'd have to have that too, because there's gonna be a lot of freaked out people.

02:37:02.000 If you make mushrooms and acid and all these things legal, you can just go get it.

02:37:07.000 Are you 18?

02:37:08.000 Oh, go buy it.

02:37:09.000 Like Yeah, I think there should be increased access.

02:37:13.000 I think so too.

02:37:14.000 You know, but I'm not opposed to I'm just saying the reality of the new interface.

02:37:20.000 If we just have all of a sudden these drugs are not just legal but legal and available for adults to buy, then you're gonna deal with a whole new set of problems that didn't exist before.

02:37:30.000 I'm not saying you shouldn't deal with that problem.

02:37:32.000 I think I think it's inevitable.

02:37:33.000 It's probably gonna happen anyway.

02:37:35.000 But those problems will be uniquely inflated by everything being legal.

02:37:40.000 Because people are just gonna go out and go fucking crazy.

02:37:43.000 And why is that?

02:37:44.000 Because if you can go to the bar and you can just go buy acid.

02:37:48.000 Do you know if people are gonna just go get acid?

02:37:51.000 If you could go like to any corner liquor store and pick up a pound of mushrooms, like if it's just totally legal.

02:37:57.000 Because you can go to a liquor store and get a case of beer, right?

02:37:59.000 You can get a case of whiskey.

02:38:00.000 You can get like twenty-four bottles of whiskey.

02:38:03.000 That is death by whiskey.

02:38:04.000 There's no way you're drinking that tonight.

02:38:06.000 Sir, you can't buy that many.

02:38:07.000 They never tell you that.

02:38:09.000 Like, go ahead, you want to spend that money?

02:38:10.000 So if you wanted to do that with mushrooms, and you could go to the liquor store and buy pounds of mushrooms.

02:38:19.000 Well, the you know, the I think with increased access there's increased, you know, mortality.

02:38:24.000 There will be.

02:38:24.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:38:25.000 And there's not just that.

02:38:26.000 It's like people that just like they ruin their brains.

02:38:28.000 They're not ready for it.

02:38:30.000 They're the maybe they're barely hanging on as it is, and then they have too many psychedelic trips, and now they're really fucked up and well you that's true too.

02:38:38.000 You'll never hear me advocate for the use of drugs.

02:38:42.000 Yeah, I've never said people should take drugs.

02:38:42.000 Good for you.

02:38:45.000 I you know, I say people shouldn't.

02:38:48.000 How many people are on amphetamines right now?

02:38:53.000 A lot of people on amphetamines.

02:38:54.000 I uh uh I've got an amphetamine story.

02:38:57.000 Yeah.

02:38:58.000 Um a friend gave me some adderal one day.

02:39:01.000 Well, I I asked him for it.

02:39:03.000 Uh lucky he came clean.

02:39:06.000 He came clean right away with no prompting.

02:39:09.000 That's funny.

02:39:09.000 Yeah, he was taking it for ADHD.

02:39:12.000 I said help.

02:39:13.000 Uh and I wrote this review.

02:39:15.000 Well, you know, the there used to be a magazine called Shaman's Drum, which re uh which you did a book review on the on the DMT book.

02:39:23.000 And he didn't think it should be called the spirit molecule, rather the dream molecule.

02:39:29.000 I took umbrage.

02:39:32.000 So after I took the Adderall, I wrote a 20-page letter.

02:39:42.000 It was pretty self, you know, uh what's the word inflated.

02:39:46.000 So the next morning.

02:39:51.000 I you looked at it and it was terrible.

02:39:54.000 Yeah.

02:39:55.000 Um I I didn't send it.

02:39:58.000 Uh all my friends who have done coke I've never done Coke, but all my friends who do coke that do stand-up comedy say you can't do stand-up comedy on Coke.

02:40:05.000 Yeah.

02:40:06.000 They say you have no feeling.

02:40:07.000 You don't like the you don't connect with the audience.

02:40:10.000 It's like it's like a just a barrier.

02:40:12.000 Like you could kind of pull it off, maybe.

02:40:15.000 But you never really like lock in.

02:40:17.000 Yeah, so you're not funny on it.

02:40:18.000 Yeah, you're not funny on it.

02:40:20.000 You're you're m probably detached.

02:40:23.000 You're probably self-obsessed, you know.

02:40:26.000 It's a weird, it's a weird drive.

02:40:27.000 I just Well, it would be like you were talking to yourself and you loved it.

02:40:31.000 You love the son of your fucking boys.

02:40:34.000 But I think the Adderall's a lot like that too, though.

02:40:37.000 It's very similar.

02:40:39.000 There's something similar to that.

02:40:40.000 Yeah.

02:40:41.000 In my case, it was just writing.

02:40:42.000 Just writing, writing, writing, you're feeling like uh, you know, uh I had a lot to say.

02:40:49.000 Yeah, I'm not even saying you shouldn't do it.

02:40:51.000 But journalists I know do it.

02:40:53.000 I know a lot of journalists who love Adderall.

02:40:56.000 They might not even say they love Adderall, but they fucking love Adderall.

02:40:59.000 I know they do it all the time.

02:41:01.000 And you can you know, you could blame it on deadlines and you know, having to write stories and r really needing to push through because you don't have enough time.

02:41:11.000 I I totally get it.

02:41:12.000 And I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, but it's just fascinating how many people do it.

02:41:17.000 Yeah, it was the case with PK Dick.

02:41:19.000 He was into amphetamines.

02:41:21.000 Mm-hmm.

02:41:21.000 Um he died of a stroke.

02:41:24.000 Oh yeah, I'm sure you're gonna cook those veins. 0.77

02:41:27.000 You're gonna cook everything.

02:41:28.000 If you're doing amphetamines all the time, you're cooking your brain, son.

02:41:32.000 Do you like PK Dick?

02:41:33.000 Um I haven't read him since high school.

02:41:36.000 You know?

02:41:37.000 Yeah, I went through a phase.

02:41:39.000 You well, I was talking about St. Peter Snow.

02:41:41.000 Uh it's written by uh viennese Jew mathematician guy named Perutz, who did uh St. Peter's Snow. 0.85

02:41:50.000 Uh and I read all of his books.

02:41:51.000 There's like eight.

02:41:53.000 And uh yeah, it's fun to get to know someone.

02:41:56.000 So once I started f uh thinking about Dick Well, I I watched the TV show uh what's it called?

02:42:03.000 The man from the High Castle and got me interested in reading the novel by Dick and uh went through most of his work.

02:42:10.000 What was the movie they did based on one of his novels?

02:42:14.000 I love Dick.

02:42:14.000 Or I love PK Dick.

02:42:20.000 Oh quite a few.

02:42:22.000 Right.

02:42:25.000 Blade Barkley.

02:42:26.000 I'll recall.

02:42:26.000 That's right.

02:42:27.000 Just recall was his too?

02:42:31.000 Total recall.

02:42:33.000 We can remember for it whole uh we can remember for you we we can remember for you wholesale is the one that was um um uh uh you know total recall.

02:42:48.000 Blade runner was amazing.

02:42:50.000 The original Blade Runner with Rutger Hauer.

02:42:53.000 Uh my god.

02:42:55.000 Did you say what about the um Oh gosh, the one with King Keenal Reeves and Robert Downey Jr. and the rotoscope.

02:43:03.000 Scanner Darkley through Spanner Dark Lair.

02:43:06.000 Alex Jones is in that, isn't he?

02:43:08.000 Yeah.

02:43:09.000 Yeah, so that's a novel.

02:43:11.000 Uh Dick.

02:43:12.000 Very interesting.

02:43:14.000 Yeah, yeah, the guy with uh skin or the suit that changed according to emotions.

02:43:21.000 Remember mood rings?

02:43:23.000 No.

02:43:24.000 Remember those?

02:43:24.000 Uh yeah, I think that may have been when I was in high school.

02:43:29.000 They had a mood ring, because you were cool if you had a mood ring when I was in high school.

02:43:33.000 So mood ring apparently, depending upon your body temperature with light, you know, and different hues.

02:43:41.000 You never heard of it?

02:43:42.000 Uh not really.

02:43:43.000 I'm Jamie, see if you can find mood rings.

02:43:45.000 Yeah, that may have been from the eighties or something.

02:43:47.000 Yeah, I'm old, dude.

02:43:48.000 How old are you?

02:43:49.000 And I was more serious by then.

02:43:50.000 How old are you now?

02:43:52.000 Okay, you're older than me, dog.

02:43:52.000 Seventy-three.

02:43:54.000 I'm fifty-eight.

02:43:56.000 So um you look great, by the way.

02:43:58.000 You really do.

02:43:59.000 Well, you really do.

02:43:59.000 Yeah.

02:44:00.000 You and you look so much better than you did when you were struggling.

02:44:04.000 So it's really nice to see you bounce back like that.

02:44:06.000 Oh, thanks.

02:44:06.000 Is uh mood rings became a nineteen seventy sensation.

02:44:11.000 Here we go.

02:44:12.000 Here we go.

02:44:13.000 So uh I went to high school in eighty one and they were still down with mood rings if you were in the right circles.

02:44:21.000 Yeah.

02:44:22.000 But uh these goofy things, uh you would wear 'em and uh they'd make your hand green, of course, because they're made out of crap, like the metal's crap, but they have these weird rocks on them that would uh change color.

02:44:37.000 See if you find like a photo of one.

02:44:39.000 Well yeah, I mean but like a photo of one changing color.

02:44:44.000 Well, that's not a photo, that'd be a video.

02:44:46.000 Uh I'm sorry.

02:44:47.000 I mean, you know what I'm saying, like uh show what it looks like.

02:44:50.000 There's a couple colors.

02:44:51.000 They're kinda dope though.

02:44:53.000 It's kinda kinda cool still.

02:44:55.000 Uh is it a rock?

02:44:57.000 What the fuck is that?

02:44:57.000 What does that?

02:44:58.000 That's a good question.

02:44:59.000 I don't know.

02:45:00.000 What is a mood let's find that out.

02:45:01.000 What is a mood ring made out of?

02:45:04.000 What is it made out of?

02:45:05.000 Is it like uh an a a resin or something?

02:45:07.000 It might be some kind of acrylic with some.

02:45:11.000 Or is it an actual rock?

02:45:13.000 Yeah.

02:45:14.000 Okay, so this dude came up with the mood ring?

02:45:16.000 Okay.

02:45:18.000 Um, who created the mood ring remains topic of some debate.

02:45:22.000 Jewelry designer named Marvin Wernick says he invented the mood ring years before 1975, developing the idea after he saw a doctor use a thermochromic temperature measuring tape on a patient.

02:45:36.000 So he came up with the idea of a mood ring after the stress of working in Wall Street led him to explore biofeedback, a therapeutic technique where people improve their health by responding to signals from their own bodies.

02:45:47.000 Huh.

02:45:48.000 So what are the crystals made out of, bro?

02:45:50.000 Crystals.

02:45:51.000 Crystals.

02:45:52.000 What are they?

02:45:53.000 What are the crystals made out of?

02:45:55.000 Ooh, look how pretty.

02:45:56.000 That's pretty, isn't it?

02:45:57.000 Like a a dope ring that's a mood ring.

02:46:02.000 You know?

02:46:03.000 That way like you could tell whether or not your significant others upset at you?

02:46:08.000 Like let me look at your fingers.

02:46:09.000 You're lying.

02:46:11.000 Yeah, well, uh yeah.

02:46:12.000 I mean, it's a it it's uh you know form of you know global you uh you know communication, huh?

02:46:19.000 No keeping secrets.

02:46:20.000 I don't think it really works.

02:46:21.000 I think it's only just heat.

02:46:23.000 If you go to the gym and you slip it on, you look like you're like really angry.

02:46:28.000 Well, if if if your hands are cold.

02:46:30.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:46:31.000 It's not gonna work.

02:46:32.000 So it's just dumb.

02:46:34.000 It's just dumb, but people loved it when I was a kid.

02:46:36.000 Yeah, I think it kind of passed me by.

02:46:38.000 Uh uh.

02:46:39.000 You got lucky.

02:46:41.000 You missed the dumb mood swing.

02:46:42.000 I was in school.

02:46:43.000 Mood ring swing.

02:46:45.000 Um when you first this what's interesting is when you first started those studies and you fur and you published DMT the spirit molecule.

02:46:56.000 Did that have an effect on people taking you seriously with all your other work?

02:47:01.000 Was it one of those things where you got labeled now, you're the crazy psychedelic guy who did that nutty study?

02:47:11.000 Or was there enough people that were like, oh, this is great, now you have a legitimate academic studying this in a federally approved way.

02:47:19.000 This is actually good for everybody, and maybe this opens the door.

02:47:23.000 It certainly opened up the door to the discussion.

02:47:25.000 Like after you put that book out, and and ever and people were who if you read that book, you'll you'll come to the conclusion that there's something mighty going on below the surface of human life in general that can be accessed in this very weird way.

02:47:41.000 Within a second or two.

02:47:42.000 It's banana.

02:47:44.000 I've never done it the way you guys did it, but it's the regular way is bananas.

02:47:50.000 And somehow or another, we're depriving people of this.

02:47:53.000 Well, I mean, shouldn't it be the front page news?

02:47:56.000 Is you can give this drug regularly and it end and everybody goes to the same place.

02:47:56.000 Yeah.

02:48:00.000 Yeah.

02:48:01.000 And it's a very weird place.

02:48:03.000 Well, I I think it ought to be on people's well, it ought to be on people's lips.

02:48:07.000 DMT stopped my fascination with UFOs because I was like, it stopped it, paused it, I should say.

02:48:13.000 It paused it because I was like, no matter what a UFO looks like, it's not as crazy as what I just saw.

02:48:18.000 Like no matter what.

02:48:19.000 A you uh just an actual metal flying disc from another planet, be like, huh, yawn.

02:48:24.000 Like that's nothing.

02:48:25.000 It's nothing compared to what exists in a few seconds.

02:48:29.000 Yeah.

02:48:30.000 And well would you say that you went to the same place you you you went back there each time?

02:48:36.000 Was it the same place?

02:48:38.000 You could tell me.

02:48:39.000 You tell me, I don't know.

02:48:40.000 I've done it differently, and I've done it differently with sound with um Icaros, which was wild.

02:48:48.000 Yeah.

02:48:48.000 That was wild.

02:48:49.000 That was like d like dancing things.

02:48:53.000 That was really fascinating when you realize like, oh, that's why the music is made the way it's made.

02:48:58.000 Like the music is perfect for that.

02:49:00.000 Yeah, you gotta do it.

02:49:01.000 It's perfect for the psychedelic trip.

02:49:03.000 I I think it inside into music by seeing it.

02:49:06.000 100%.

02:49:08.000 I I I think of music differently from that trip.

02:49:11.000 And then, you know, I think I would I really want to explore Kundalini yoga.

02:49:19.000 I just have like put it off forever.

02:49:21.000 Because I've had friends that have done DMT and also do Kundalini Yoga, and they'll tell you, dude, if you work hard enough, you can get to that place.

02:49:29.000 Where you can get to that place with on the notch, completely in your own mind without taking any drug at all, where you could full on DMT trip.

02:49:38.000 And the guy the guy who told me this was very reliable and had experienced DMT, was also a jiu-jitsu black belt, like a solid guy.

02:49:46.000 Like I believed him, and he's like, You can get there.

02:49:49.000 Yeah, have you ever done or heard about that holotropic breath work? 0.86

02:49:52.000 Yes.

02:49:53.000 Yeah, it's come to I've done that.

02:49:55.000 And yeah, it switched me into a very highly altered state.

02:49:59.000 Very highly altered state.

02:50:00.000 It it felt like you know, as long as we're talking drugs, it it felt more like MDMA than it did DMT.

02:50:06.000 I've had some moments before I had like a big show or something, and I just really wanted to relax where I'll do deep breathing and stretching, just deep breathing and stretching, and you get high as fuck.

02:50:18.000 It's just this weird natural high that happens, like you relieviate tension in your body, and your body rewards you for it with all this endorphin rush and dopamine, and you get so friendly and so sweet, you just want to hug everybody, you want everybody to be happy.

02:50:35.000 It's like it like releases this like you're carrying it around physical tension that manifests itself in the way you view the world.

02:50:43.000 Well and you can get out of it on your own, which is nuts.

02:50:46.000 Yeah, so how do you think well you know what what do you think it means that that's built into our systems?

02:50:52.000 I think we need physical activity, and I think um we always have had physical activity, so it wasn't ever a thing where you had a mandate Physical activity.

02:51:01.000 It's like we had to to stay alive.

02:51:03.000 So because of that, there's like the body functions in that way.

02:51:06.000 It's only strong if it's forced to work.

02:51:08.000 It only has a good immune system if it's exposed to a certain amount of different people and different bios.

02:51:16.000 It becomes just like a muscle does when it gets sedentary.

02:51:21.000 It atrophies.

02:51:22.000 And your body actually and so that's the problem with like the human civilization.

02:51:27.000 We get into cities, everything beg becomes easier.

02:51:30.000 You're sedentary most of the time.

02:51:32.000 The body decays, and you're in a you're in a state where you're depressed all the time.

02:51:36.000 You don't know why.

02:51:37.000 Well it's because your your body doesn't it's not designed to work like that.

02:51:41.000 For tens of thousands of years, you had to be active, you have to be running around, you had to be carrying things, you had to be getting water, you had to be building things, you have to be f hunting things and fishing, you had to be moving because you had to stay alive.

02:51:52.000 And then all of a sudden you're not.

02:51:54.000 And I think that's one of the great dilemmas of mental health in this country that's maybe dismissed by a lot of people.

02:52:01.000 One of the great dilemmas is you're sedentary.

02:52:03.000 I think there were some studies comparing Prozac way back when with a routine of physical exercise.

02:52:11.000 And exercise is an antidepressant.

02:52:13.000 So it's been recent ones with SSRIs that show that it's more effective, more effective than SSRIs.

02:52:20.000 Yeah.

02:52:20.000 Because we're not supposed to be sedentary, and nobody wants to be told what to do, and nobody wants to feel bad.

02:52:26.000 I get it.

02:52:27.000 But you you have to feel bad for yourself so you could feel better later.

02:52:30.000 You just have to get coached.

02:52:31.000 That's all it is.

02:52:33.000 And don't resist it.

02:52:34.000 Just embrace it.

02:52:35.000 Well, what about Ozepic though?

02:52:38.000 I don't think those things are bad in the right circumstances.

02:52:42.000 I don't think if you're a guy and you need to lose 30 pounds, you get on that, like, come on, man, you can do that.

02:52:47.000 You can lose the I'll be your friend.

02:52:48.000 I'll fucking help you.

02:52:50.000 Like just stop eating sugar, stop eating bread, get yourself on a workout schedule.

02:52:54.000 You're gonna say, I I'm gonna get on the fucking bike in the morning, I'm gonna get on that stupid fucking I'm gonna do a Peloton workout every day for a month.

02:53:03.000 You'll lose 20 pounds that month.

02:53:06.000 You can do it.

02:53:06.000 Right.

02:53:07.000 You just have to be focused.

02:53:08.000 Right, but if you're 500 pounds, if you're if you're if you're morbidly obese, if you're really addicted to food, you've got a real problem.

02:53:15.000 I think it can help you get to a healthy path.

02:53:18.000 That's what I think it's really the best for.

02:53:20.000 If you can help people get to a healthy path where they stop overeating, they can get it under control, they get new patterns, and then they start getting addicted to walking, maybe, get addicted to feeling better, start being able to do things you couldn't do before.

02:53:33.000 There's like hundreds of pages of Instagram people who during COVID where they were obese, wind up losing 100, 200 pounds.

02:53:44.000 Do you know who jelly roll is?

02:53:46.000 Uh no, but I've seen some uh you know some stories, some pictures of people that were very, very, very heavy, 800 pounds.

02:53:53.000 Jell Jelly Roll is an amazing musician, an incredible guy who like went to jail, he's got face tattoos, but he's the sweetest person that's ever lived.

02:54:01.000 He's lost like 200 pounds in the last year or so.

02:54:06.000 Is it a year and a half, two years?

02:54:08.000 Yeah.

02:54:09.000 He looks amazing.

02:54:10.000 Yes, no ozempic.

02:54:12.000 No, no zempic. 0.96

02:54:13.000 Just doing it the right way, exercising, but I just think the problem there's always like some sort of a a trade-off when it comes to what you do and don't do.

02:54:23.000 Look at the size he used to be, and look what he looks like now.

02:54:25.000 And then saying, Yeah.

02:54:28.000 Amazing.

02:54:29.000 Well the sweetest fucking guy of all time, too.

02:54:32.000 Yeah, you know, so you could lose that weight.

02:54:34.000 It's well is like depression and exercise.

02:54:37.000 But also he's a wealthy star, he has access to great food, he has a reason to believe his life is gonna be better.

02:54:42.000 He's got a great life already.

02:54:44.000 Yeah, for most enhancing himself.

02:54:46.000 Yeah.

02:54:47.000 I I think for most people, like actually developing a real exercise regimen would be way harder than just taking Prozac.

02:54:54.000 But that's where a guy like that comes in play, we go, well, he can do it, I could do it too.

02:54:54.000 Yes.

02:54:58.000 Like, what do you what do you have to do?

02:55:00.000 You just have to start slow, keep moving, don't stop, get get a schedule, put it together, make some progress, note the progress, get excited about progress, keep going.

02:55:11.000 But if Ozempik helps you, like fucking I'm for whatever helps you, man.

02:55:15.000 You know, I've had a friend that was very close to suicide before he got on SSRIs.

02:55:19.000 I'll never say there's no one should ever take SSRIs, because I don't know if he would have bounced back.

02:55:24.000 But he did bounce back, and then he got himself off of them and then he got healthy.

02:55:28.000 And now he's great.

02:55:29.000 And this is, you know, with a lot of medications.

02:55:33.000 A lot of them are you they have just real benefits for him, and I think Ozempic is one of those.

02:55:37.000 I think if you're if you're a morbidly obuse obese person, one of the things that my friend Brigham Bueller, who is the CEO of Ways to Well, and Ways to Well um is is also uh a pharmacy or a compounding pharmacy.

02:55:51.000 So they make some peptides.

02:55:52.000 And he said you can make it so that it doesn't have all the negative effects by making it for the actual size of the person, so you give them the exact dose and combining peptides that's gonna prevent bone loss and muscle loss.

02:56:08.000 Like that's possible to healthily slow the process down, stop the overeating, get the inflammation in check, get the diet in check.

02:56:19.000 But it's gotta be done like systemically.

02:56:21.000 And they want you to do it with like a certain amount of exercise per week and they want you to eat vegetables and meat and just healthy stuff only.

02:56:30.000 Throw out all the bullshit and let's try to get this train back on track.

02:56:35.000 Yeah, it reminds me of that PK Dick story.

02:56:38.000 Did you ha uh what's what was that called?

02:56:40.000 The three stigmata of Palmer Eldritch.

02:56:43.000 It's about competition between an in uh an extra stellar, intrastellar psychedelic versus a terrestrial psychedelic.

02:56:52.000 Which company was going to be able to sell the psychedelic or the world view of choice.

02:56:59.000 You know, the one that came fr from the earth uh g got people into um Perky Paddy's world where everybody was this big and they all lived in this house together and did stuff, like but they went to the beach and had barbecues and things.

02:57:17.000 Yeah, that was the terrestrial psychedelic that was competing against an intra stellar psychedelic.

02:57:25.000 Which was completely horrible.

02:57:27.000 It was weird.

02:57:27.000 It was like you never stop tripping.

02:57:30.000 Oh no.

02:57:31.000 Oh no.

02:57:32.000 Yeah, and you know that was gradually spreading.

02:57:34.000 Oh that well, I think that's everybody's fear when they do something, like, oh my god, what if this never ends?

02:57:39.000 What if this is my new reality?

02:57:40.000 Like, oh my god, I'm done.

02:57:42.000 Yeah.

02:57:42.000 I'm dead.

02:57:43.000 I'm gone.

02:57:44.000 It's always been this way, it will always be this way.

02:57:46.000 Yeah, that was my worst trip ever.

02:57:48.000 Right.

02:57:48.000 And then for people with severe anxiety, some people just don't bounce back well from something like that.

02:57:53.000 And that's why never advocate drugs to anybody.

02:57:57.000 I never have.

02:57:57.000 Yeah.

02:57:58.000 Yeah.

02:57:58.000 I know you haven't.

02:57:59.000 Well, you didn't even want to admit that you did 'em when we first started talking.

02:58:02.000 Right.

02:58:02.000 You didn't even want to admit you smoke pot.

02:58:04.000 Yeah, at this point, you know.

02:58:05.000 But I think you thought back then like to be taken seriously as a researcher.

02:58:09.000 Mm-hmm.

02:58:10.000 Yeah, that's true.

02:58:12.000 But I've I'm you know, less of a researcher now, so I don't have that same kind of, you know, uh uh camouflage to wear.

02:58:18.000 Yes.

02:58:18.000 Well, I'm glad because uh look without you the the understanding of what that experience is would be greatly diminished in popular culture.

02:58:28.000 I don't think people would really understand what it is if it wasn't for that book.

02:58:33.000 And I know you gotta really stick your neck out to try to make something like that.

02:58:36.000 Yeah.

02:58:37.000 And it's bizarre because it is a thing, it's a real thing.

02:58:41.000 And you should know about real things.

02:58:43.000 You should know about real things that have probably been in human use for thousands and thousands of years and s hidden from you by Nixon.

02:58:54.000 Yeah, the thing I like so much about DMT is that it's endogenous.

02:58:58.000 It's made in it is made in the brain.

02:59:00.000 Yeah.

02:59:01.000 Yeah.

02:59:01.000 Uh do you think it's what we're making when we're dreaming?

02:59:04.000 It might be what we're making right now.

02:59:07.000 Yeah, yeah, that's uh one idea is that it regulates consensus reality by maintaining itself at a certain concentration in the brain.

02:59:15.000 I buy that.

02:59:16.000 But I buy a lot of things.

02:59:18.000 It's the matrix.

02:59:18.000 It's the endomatrix.

02:59:20.000 Yeah.

02:59:21.000 Oh um you know about the matrix or this red laser and DMT.

02:59:26.000 Oh yeah.

02:59:26.000 Yeah.

02:59:28.000 Tell people about it because it's nuts.

02:59:30.000 Yeah.

02:59:30.000 I don't I don't know much about it.

02:59:32.000 You haven't done it?

02:59:33.000 Uh no.

02:59:34.000 So apparently it's a red laser, and if you're tripping on DMT and you look down or below, so you could either look from uh below it, look up or from above it, look down, right?

02:59:46.000 Is that correct?

02:59:47.000 I didn't know there was a directional code.

02:59:49.000 I think it's a directional thing.

02:59:50.000 I don't think if it's on the wall, you read it.

02:59:52.000 I think you have to get above it and look down.

02:59:54.000 Okay.

02:59:56.000 But I think that's what they say.

02:59:57.000 And if you do that you see code.

02:59:58.000 Code, yeah, like uh you know, like the Matrix.

03:00:01.000 Yeah.

03:00:02.000 Well or Japanese. 0.99

03:00:04.000 If there's anybody that should believe that life isn't real, it's me.

03:00:07.000 Life isn't real?

03:00:08.000 That it's not real.

03:00:10.000 Like that that maybe there is some sort of magical quality to this experience.

03:00:16.000 Some sort of uh very difficult to grasp aspect of reality that we ignore that's spiritual or mystical or there's something going on outside of just normal physical reality.

03:00:33.000 Uh well I think things wouldn't be this way uh otherwise.

03:00:42.000 And you know, cause and effect goes a certain way.

03:00:44.000 It's not neutral.

03:00:45.000 Right.

03:00:45.000 It you know, it kind of pushes you in one direction.

03:00:48.000 So who created cause and effect, what are c cause and effects causes.

03:00:48.000 Yeah.

03:00:48.000 Mm-hmm.

03:00:53.000 Right.

03:00:55.000 Motivations.

03:00:56.000 What are what are angels and demons?

03:00:59.000 All right.

03:01:00.000 What is what uh where evil where is evil come from?

03:01:03.000 We know it's real.

03:01:04.000 Mm-hmm.

03:01:05.000 Where does good come from?

03:01:06.000 We know it's real.

03:01:07.000 It's like everybody wants to be so smart that they dismiss the idea of angels and demons.

03:01:12.000 It's really fascinating.

03:01:14.000 Because they're really just a word for it.

03:01:16.000 An actual force that creates a a damaging, terrifying or wonderful, amazing effect.

03:01:24.000 Good and evil.

03:01:26.000 Right.

03:01:26.000 Right?

03:01:27.000 Angels and demons.

03:01:28.000 Yeah, like this r the effect is real, and we both know that people are capable of either one.

03:01:32.000 It's one of the reasons why we love people though.

03:01:34.000 It's cause we love great people because we know that there's terrible people.

03:01:38.000 We love people that are warm and friendly and kind and sweet.

03:01:43.000 Because we know that there's people that out there that are self-serving and shitty and mean.

03:01:47.000 You know, and th that's we need one to appreciate the other.

03:01:52.000 And that's what's so fucked up about being a person.

03:01:55.000 Yeah.

03:01:57.000 Well, in uh the text anyway, angels are intermediaries.

03:02:00.000 You know, like you know, God has no body, right?

03:02:02.000 So how can God interact with the world?

03:02:05.000 Yeah, so the angels are the inter intermediaries.

03:02:08.000 That makes sense.

03:02:09.000 Yeah.

03:02:10.000 Uh like DMT in a way is the most spiritual of the physical.

03:02:13.000 What do you both think about the people that try to connect UAPs with angels?

03:02:19.000 I don't know.

03:02:21.000 Have you ever had a UAP UFO alien experience?

03:02:25.000 No, no, I've never no, not really.

03:02:27.000 What about you?

03:02:28.000 No.

03:02:29.000 I'm trying, bro.

03:02:31.000 You're trying, how do you try?

03:02:34.000 No, I I wish.

03:02:36.000 Yeah, I wish I saw something.

03:02:38.000 I wish I saw something that it was like one hundred percent.

03:02:40.000 There's no way that's ours.

03:02:42.000 It'd be cool.

03:02:42.000 Right.

03:02:43.000 Yeah, that's never happened.

03:02:45.000 But I don't think they're all lying.

03:02:49.000 I don't think that's the case.

03:02:51.000 I don't think they're all lying.

03:02:52.000 There's too many of 'em that that tell a story that's it just doesn't seem like bullshit.

03:02:58.000 Has has Whitley Strawberry been on your show?

03:02:58.000 Mm-hmm.

03:03:01.000 No.

03:03:02.000 He's an odd one because he's a fiction writer.

03:03:05.000 You know?

03:03:06.000 Not that I don't believe him, but when a guy writes fantastical fiction for a living and then has a fantastic fantastical fictional experience that actually happens to him that becomes his his thing.

03:03:19.000 It's like Arsenio Hall said, things that make you go, hmm.

03:03:24.000 I'm not saying that he it didn't actually happen to him because his his experience it would be ironic if it did, because then nobody would believe him because he writes fiction, right?

03:03:32.000 But his experiences mirror a lot of the experiences from the John Mack book.

03:03:38.000 You know, um did you read that book, Abduction?

03:03:40.000 Yeah, I knew John back in the day.

03:03:43.000 Yeah, I liked him.

03:03:44.000 Very smart guy.

03:03:45.000 Those um stories and that was back before the internet really, where there was any social media or anything like that back then.

03:03:52.000 Um those stories were oddly uniform.

03:03:57.000 Well, they were, and you know, John Mack, the psychiatrist from Harvard or Cambridge.

03:04:03.000 Uh yeah, we talked about the similarities between his s uh subjects reports and our DMT volunteers.

03:04:13.000 He thought we uh had some you know come across a technology that would make contact at least the experience of contact, you know, st uh something that could be studied scientifically.

03:04:24.000 Jeez.

03:04:27.000 Someone should reignite that idea right now.

03:04:30.000 Yeah, I'm surprised DMT's not in the news more.

03:04:33.000 Well, there was a study that they were doing in England, correct?

03:04:36.000 Yeah, there's a couple of groups.

03:04:38.000 Well, they were doing a long term drip, not like yours.

03:04:41.000 So yours was like one push.

03:04:43.000 I think theirs is like a drip.

03:04:44.000 Yeah, 30 minutes extended.

03:04:45.000 Something kooky like that, yeah.

03:04:47.000 Yeah.

03:04:47.000 And there's a group in Switzerland.

03:04:50.000 Uh John Dean at UC San Diego's gonna start one.

03:04:54.000 Uh so there's at least three around the world.

03:04:59.000 It's a real place that you can go to, and that's what's nuts.

03:05:02.000 Yeah.

03:05:03.000 For people that never experience anything and they're teetoddlers their whole life.

03:05:08.000 It sounds crazy.

03:05:09.000 I know it sounds crazy.

03:05:10.000 Yeah.

03:05:11.000 Well, you know, w what what do you think of the beings?

03:05:13.000 Do you think the beings are are outside of us?

03:05:17.000 Do you think they're disembodied souls?

03:05:19.000 Or do you think they're inside us all the time?

03:05:22.000 Well, if they're inside us all the time, then we're everything.

03:05:25.000 Then inside of us is just somehow connected to everything.

03:05:29.000 It's we're not individuals at all.

03:05:30.000 We we are everything.

03:05:31.000 We're all of us are everything.

03:05:33.000 If if they are inside of us.

03:05:35.000 And they may be inside of us.

03:05:36.000 It might all it might be the idea of like a physical boundary is just nonsense.

03:05:41.000 Like who gives a fuck where it's from?

03:05:42.000 It's all everywhere all the time.

03:05:44.000 You just don't have access to it right now.

03:05:46.000 You don't have access to it in your default state because your default fundamental state is a primate.

03:05:55.000 You know, but it's in there.

03:05:56.000 And occasionally you have access to it.

03:05:58.000 You have access to it, near death experiences, you have access to it, holotropic breathing.

03:06:03.000 But if you had access to it all the time, you wouldn't be able to exist in this barbaric state that you live in.

03:06:08.000 Well, I think it has to do with the dose.

03:06:11.000 I mean, if it's really high, if if the levels are really high in the in the brain and the mind.

03:06:15.000 Yeah.

03:06:16.000 You know, the uh it this could be just a DMT simulation on them, not the first one.

03:06:21.000 Right.

03:06:22.000 Yeah.

03:06:23.000 In in which case there still is cause and effect.

03:06:26.000 Well just imagine a world where this wasn't reality, but then you got to experience this, it would be completely psychedelic.

03:06:31.000 You'd be like, what is this fucking crazy world?

03:06:34.000 Yeah, yeah.

03:06:34.000 It'd be different.

03:06:35.000 It's the 3D and the shadow people.

03:06:37.000 Just do you know how weird it is sometimes if you just stand on a corner and watch people just walking and looking at their phones.

03:06:46.000 Um, kidnapped and they don't even know it.

03:06:50.000 Yeah, there's a lot of that here.

03:06:51.000 It's everywhere.

03:06:52.000 Yeah.

03:06:53.000 Everywhere I moved back to Albuquerque last year.

03:06:58.000 Yeah.

03:06:58.000 Oh yeah?

03:07:02.000 So it's cool to be a good thing.

03:07:03.000 Better localization.

03:07:04.000 Yeah, I do.

03:07:05.000 Nice.

03:07:05.000 Yeah, and we have a front lawn and a back lawn.

03:07:08.000 There you go.

03:07:08.000 Yeah.

03:07:09.000 Yeah.

03:07:10.000 Albuquerque's home to some of the greatest mixed martial arts fighters ever.

03:07:14.000 John Jones lives in Albuquerque.

03:07:14.000 Yeah.

03:07:16.000 Greatest of all time.

03:07:16.000 Right.

03:07:18.000 Shout out to Albuquerque.

03:07:18.000 Yeah, I love it.

03:07:20.000 Jackson Winkle John in the house.

03:07:22.000 Yeah, I I love New Mexico.

03:07:24.000 That's great.

03:07:25.000 Well, it's a crazy state with a rich history and beautiful landscape.

03:07:30.000 Oh my God.

03:07:31.000 I have a friend who uh just got back from elk hunting there.

03:07:34.000 He was raving about how gorgeous it was out there.

03:07:36.000 Uh the sky is great.

03:07:38.000 We have a pretty cool governor.

03:07:41.000 Before she was governor, she was the secretary of health.

03:07:44.000 Oh, cool.

03:07:45.000 Yeah, during during COVID.

03:07:46.000 Yeah, so sh she knows public health. 0.99

03:07:49.000 And she's a nice lady. 1.00

03:07:50.000 You like her?

03:07:50.000 Yeah.

03:07:51.000 Yeah.

03:07:51.000 Beautiful.

03:07:52.000 Um Thanks for being here, man.

03:07:55.000 It was a lot of fun.

03:07:55.000 It always is.

03:07:56.000 It's always great to see you.

03:07:57.000 It's been great to be a friend all these years.

03:07:59.000 Oh, yeah.

03:08:00.000 It's great to see you healthy.

03:08:01.000 Yeah, same.

03:08:01.000 Yeah, it's great.

03:08:05.000 Thank you.

03:08:05.000 Yeah, yeah.

03:08:06.000 Um is my DMT and the soul of prophecy.

03:08:11.000 Yeah, it's right here.

03:08:11.000 Oh, yeah.

03:08:12.000 There it is, yeah.

03:08:12.000 Yeah.

03:08:13.000 Yeah, it it um it's pretty old.

03:08:15.000 Um that sucker up.

03:08:17.000 People can buy it.

03:08:17.000 Um it came in uh um it came out in 2014.

03:08:20.000 Yeah.

03:08:21.000 It's um you know, what's the soul of prophecy?

03:08:24.000 Is it the visions or is the is it the message?

03:08:27.000 So um and then those are the other books that are available.

03:08:30.000 DMT the Spirit Molecule, which is what got me into you in the first place.

03:08:33.000 What a great cover, too, that Alex Gray artwork.

03:08:35.000 Well, uh you know, his artwork is on the second book too.

03:08:39.000 Yeah.

03:08:40.000 Right, right.

03:08:41.000 Yeah, that's Alex Gray as well.

03:08:42.000 He's amazing.

03:08:43.000 Uh I mean that guy there's no one ever has captured the DMT state quite like him.

03:08:47.000 Yeah.

03:08:48.000 You know?

03:08:49.000 He's pretty good.

03:08:50.000 And it's just beautiful work.

03:08:51.000 Like it's stuff like and that crazy chapel of sacred mirrors that he has now.

03:08:55.000 Yeah.

03:08:56.000 The 3D printed like chapel.

03:08:59.000 Do you have any do you have any of his original art?

03:09:02.000 No.

03:09:02.000 No, no, no.

03:09:03.000 I've got the spirit molecule.

03:09:04.000 Oh, it's so cool.

03:09:06.000 It's in the hallway.

03:09:06.000 That's awesome.

03:09:07.000 Yes.

03:09:08.000 He's been a sweet guy, though.

03:09:09.000 I've we've talked to him a few times.

03:09:11.000 All right.

03:09:11.000 Thank you very much.

03:09:12.000 Thanks for being here.

03:09:13.000 Really appreciate you.

The Joe Rogan Experience - September 26, 2025

Joe Rogan Experience #2385 - Rick Strassman

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Transcript