On this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, the legendary comedian and actor talks about his new memoir, 1968: Vietnam, a memoir about the Vietnam War and the events that took place in that era. Joe also discusses his new book, "Vietnam, Vietnam, Vietnam" and why he decided to write it.
00:00:33.000And uh just launched the book tour, not last night, but the night before, because last night was comedy mothership, Kill Tony, which was amazing.
00:00:42.000Did they vet any of those people by the way before they come up?
00:00:44.000Yeah, didn't look insane people, brilliant people, great comics, terrible comics.
00:00:57.000He's been an inspiration to me my whole life.
00:00:59.000And uh wrote a series of books uh in the 80s Brotherhood of the Rose, Fraternity of the Stone, League of Night and Fog, which were just incredible.
00:01:06.000And uh got to kick off the book tour with him out there, signed a baby for the first time.
00:01:09.000I've never signed a baby, so someone brought a baby through and asked me to sign their kid.
00:01:29.000I mean, you've been had that for a while.
00:01:30.000You've had people doing that for a while for you, but I remember the first time I got one.
00:01:33.000I think it was after I think it was after that was on, or right around the same time the first time I was on, so like 2020, the first time I saw it, and I texted you and sent it.
00:01:40.000And it was like someone tattooed the cross tomahawks on themselves.
00:01:42.000And you know, I because I know you you've had that with uh with you for a while, and if it was weird the first time, some you see it.
00:01:48.000Like now it's kind of must be kind of normal because a lot of people have tattoos of you.
00:02:20.000But uh but yeah, the book, 1968, Vietnam, and I thought this was gonna be the book that was gonna take me the least amount of time because I thought I had this foundation of knowledge when it comes to warfare, Vietnam in particular, those lessons.
00:02:33.000Uh I've had the influence of popular culture when it comes to the 60s and Vietnam as well growing up, so I thought I was I was well prepared to dive into this world.
00:02:41.000And I didn't want to just say that they're listening to Credence Clearwater Revival and that it's 1968, and then essentially drop a contemporary thriller into the 60s, into Vietnam, 1968.
00:02:51.000Uh instead, I wanted someone who lived through that era to know that I put in the effort and any sentence had to be written through the lens of 1968 without the benefit of 50 plus years of hindsight.
00:03:01.000So if someone is you know 70 years old, 50 years old, 20 years old, they only have their life experience up to that point to uh make a decision for perspective on an event.
00:03:12.000Uh and that took a lot more time than I thought.
00:03:17.000Uh I couldn't find the one from 1968 I wanted, so I got a dictionary from 1969 to look how that how terms were defined back then, a lot of maps from the era, and it was just a took a lot longer, which is why we're here in October and not in January June when the book was supposed to come out.
00:03:40.000Uh I'm sure there is, but I was looking at just some specific terms that I can't even remember what they are right now.
00:03:45.000And you just wanted to look them up through that.
00:03:47.000I didn't want to look up to Google something today.
00:03:49.000I wanted to be doing this research as if I was in the 60s.
00:03:52.000And so if I needed to look something up, whether it was spelling or whatever else, I wanted to use that instead of like asking Google machine.
00:03:58.000So I just wanted to transport myself back in time.
00:04:01.000And uh yeah, that was that was quite the endeavor.
00:05:27.000Yeah, you know, it's uh it's something that I explore in the book, and the benefit of hindsight, it's certainly more um i it it's more not relevant, but uh you you can you can draw that out for sure at the benefit of hindsight.
00:05:44.000And I'm trying to write this thing in 1968 from these guys.
00:05:47.000So they're having these conversations with only that information.
00:05:50.000So they don't yet know who's making a ton of money.
00:05:52.000They're not knowing about Bell helicopters and and all the rest of this stuff.
00:05:55.000They're not they don't really know yet about Gulf of Tonkin.
00:05:58.000Um they just know that 1968 is the bloodiest year thus far of the war, and it's gonna be the bloodiest year of the war so far, which is why I said it in that year.
00:06:07.000Uh yeah, well, 58 over 58,000 in total.
00:06:10.000And I forget uh exactly how many for that particular year, but we lost more people that year and had more people wounded than in any other year of the war.
00:06:16.000But over 58,000 people died in Vietnam on our side, to say nothing of the Vietnam.
00:06:21.000Um NVA, Viet Cong, civilians, you know, all put together, but uh certainly a lot more than 58,000.
00:06:30.000Yeah, looking back, so I'm trying to look at it uh through the lens of the day.
00:06:34.000And when you look at that, the domino thing, we look back and say, and of course the rest of the world wouldn't have fallen to communism.
00:06:40.000Um but at the time I trying to put myself into the shoes of the people making these decisions.
00:06:44.000And uh there at least for Southeast Asia, there was the threat of other countries falling.
00:06:50.000Even if they did, would that have meant anything long term for the rest of us today?
00:06:55.000It's it's hard to say that it would have.
00:06:57.000But uh it I mean the whole thing is so is so heartbreaking.
00:07:00.000Um and you're right, when we got back from from World War II, uh those guys had parades, they got back to work, they used the GI Bill, they built this country into what it is today.
00:07:09.000Uh Vietnam, those guys, it was looked at like they went bankrupt.
00:07:14.000and not only that when they came back they were called baby killers they were met at the airport by protesters They had all that to deal with, all of that baggage to deal with.
00:07:23.000And uh and that left a scar in an entire generation.
00:07:25.000It really, you know, a lot of that started with the Kennedy assassination in 1963, and then we move on into the war, and this becomes the first televised war.
00:07:32.000So there were photographs of the Civil War, um, there's uh photographs, uh World War I, World War II, we're getting the news reels when you go to the movies on Saturday and see the matinee and you're getting those.
00:07:42.000But that's a very different type of way to get your news uh because you're seeing it once a week, or you're seeing a still photograph in a paper.
00:07:49.000Uh, then we get to Vietnam, and now you're seeing it every day on the news.
00:07:52.000You're seeing Walter Cronkite there give you that news, and you're watching these guys in foxholes and you're seeing this shooting and you're seeing this chaos.
00:07:59.000And then also the media, I think this is the first time where the media realizes they have not they're not just a uh a pillar as a check on government, they realize at this point that they actually have power to influence events and policy.
00:08:12.000So how they report from Vietnam, very different from how reporters, even in Korea, but let's say World War II, very different from how reporters uh reported on that war.
00:08:21.000And now I think in Vietnam you have these guys in Saigon and they realize and they're staying at these amazing hotels and they're partying it up at night, and some of them are going to the outskirts of town, so it looks like they're out in the rice patties or whatever, and then they're going back to their hotel for for drinks.
00:08:34.000But they realize during this time that they can influence policy, and so that's what we see with the Tet Offensive.
00:08:38.000We see that as a complete is a complete tactical win for the United States, but it becomes a loss for us, a huge strategic loss for us because of the way that it's reported.
00:08:48.000And the uh the media is involved in that.
00:08:55.000Yeah, the media media were distorted what was what was going on and uh and talked about this huge victory for the uh for the NVA and uh for for North Vietnam.
00:09:04.000And it it wasn't really, but it was when they reported it that way.
00:09:09.000And then we see more of America turning against this war and uh and and policy shifts and more people shipped into Vietnam.
00:09:16.000So it's uh I mean it's the whole thing is so is so sad, and I try to rehumanize it and personalize it in this book because you can read about I think that's what the importance of reading fiction also because you're you can it you get a compassion there uh and an empathy for people because you're living something through their eyes, even though it's fiction, uh that you don't get really through through nonfiction.
00:09:35.000You can read about all these numbers, you can read about 58,000, but when you read a story like this, uh then you're getting to know these characters and you're going through this thing with them, and that but then it becomes a part of your experience.
00:09:46.000Uh so even say, let's say Buds going through going through SEAL training.
00:09:50.000Yeah, I'm I I'm thinking back to Normandy and I'm thinking back to to uh to Iwo Jima, I'm thinking back to Vietnam and what these guys had to go through, and then I'm realizing I can do a few more push-ups in the sand here in Cornado, California.
00:10:01.000Oh, those guys died and sacrificed so much so that I could be here.
00:10:04.000But some of that comes through the uh works of fiction too, the thrillers that I was reading growing up from guys who had backgrounds in Vietnam or just from things they're dealing with in contemporary thrillers of the day.
00:10:14.000But that became part of my experience, and I didn't have to uh and it it's almost like you're living it, even though it's all made up.
00:10:19.000So uh that's the important of the important of reading in general, and the speaking of reading.
00:10:24.000When we go when we look at 2003 to 2025 and the drop off in reading that has occurred, that is scary.
00:10:31.000Is the do you think that's because of the internet?
00:10:34.000I mean, it's quite uh it corresponds uh almost directly with the rise of the smartphone.
00:10:39.000And uh, and of course it continues to drop today.
00:10:41.000So I think I'm getting into publishing and Hollywood in probably one of the worst times in the last hundred years that one could decide to do something like this with AI and all and all the rest of it.
00:10:49.000It's uh and less people reading and less people, there's no backside there's no box office for movies anymore.
00:10:54.000No, the worst time to get into it is tomorrow.
00:11:16.000I want a Vietnam thriller involving uh handsome football player who tries to go do the best for his country, but realizes like Pat Tillman style gets disillusioned when he gets there.
00:11:26.000Yeah, I mean, that's it's uh it's a thing.
00:11:28.000I think I'm CAA, my talent agency just sent me a thing the other day and said that uh one of these uh open AI deals, they I think it was a 1.5 billion dollar settlement or something, and that that they'd use my books, and I'm sure they've used this podcast, I'm sure they've used all sorts of things.
00:11:41.000But uh, but the settlement out of that for me is possibly a thousand dollars.
00:12:16.000I was talking to um so I was in Morocco filming uh True Believer, yeah, just a couple weeks ago.
00:12:21.000So we finished up filming out there with Pratt and everybody, it was amazing.
00:12:24.000And uh and I yep from Morocco you fly through France on the way home.
00:12:28.000So I stopped in Paris for a few days, met my wife out there, met some other friends out there, went to a bunch of dinners and things like that.
00:12:33.000But one of them's got named Rick Rosenfield, he started California Pizza Kitchen back in 1985, and uh they were gonna put one in one of the win hotels in Vegas, and uh we're talking about AI, and that's how this this plays in here.
00:12:44.000And he said he told me the story, and I'll get this is the general gist, it might be not the exact detail, but the general gist is right.
00:12:50.000They're gonna put one into one of the win casinos.
00:12:52.000And so he goes in there with uh with Steve Wynne and they're walking through and Waylon Jennings is with them.
00:12:57.000So they're all there's three these three guys, Steve Wynn, Rick Rosenfield, and Waylon Jennings, and they go in and Steve Wynn says, Hey, uh Waylon, we have this cover band, we have this guy that does just your cover tunes.
00:13:06.000He's a huge fan of yours, and I'd appreciate it if you said you said hi to him.
00:13:10.000And Waylon Jennings is like, yeah, no problem.
00:13:12.000So the cover band guy is like Jalen Wennings or something, let's call him that.
00:16:25.000It's gonna be hard to fit like some of these things, it's gonna be hard to figure out at some point.
00:16:28.000But I almost think there needs to be remember the parental advisories in the 80s, they put on CDs and stuff like that back then.
00:16:33.000Like at least you know, like if I want to go and I want to buy this piece of art right here, and I walk into that store and I love this thing, and I put it in my house and it's there for 10 years, and I show everybody that comes in.
00:16:42.000But what if that thing is I don't know that no one actually made that.
00:17:26.000Yeah, I I don't think it's possible to avoid change.
00:17:30.000And this is the direction that change is going.
00:17:32.000And so uh at your essence, like what are you and who are you?
00:17:36.000You have to search for that in different ways.
00:17:40.000And you're probably not gonna be able to search for it the same way through music and books if you find out that these music and books weren't actually written by like-minded people.
00:17:48.000Or is it that the the lessons and the the energy, say the energy of the music and the lessons of the books, it is from people Because what AI's done is they've absorbed all of the art that everyone has ever created ever in terms of literature and music and even comedy and whatever.
00:18:11.000And it's combined it together in a style that's completely variable.
00:18:18.000You can have it like Amy Winehouse, you can make it sound like Biggie Smalls.
00:18:23.000But it is all it's imitating everything that humans have created and would still will still affect humans and maybe inspire us more and maybe put a premium on something that's created by an actual human and not by AI.
00:19:55.000They were all aware of crumbling civilizations and once great civilizations that had fallen.
00:20:00.000This episode is brought to you by visible.
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00:20:52.000But I think if you learned a if you learn to think for yourself, you think logically.
00:20:56.000If you read kids today, if they put that down that phone and just read, that is a superpower.
00:21:03.000Read, work out, do some MMA, BJJ stuff, do a little boxing, but read, you are going to uh excel just leave everyone else in the dust when it comes to whatever you want to do next in life, out of high school, out of college, whatever it is.
00:21:16.000Uh if you have that foundation, then you're wondering to be a more empathetic and passionate person, but you're gonna have this knowledge base that other people are are uh relying on chat GPT or whatever it is, uh their phone, whatever, to do that thinking for them.
00:21:31.000Yeah, it's um amazing how many people just don't consume any nonfiction or fiction.
00:21:37.000They don't consume anything but like TikTok and Netflix.
00:21:43.000Like I said about the the time uh enter it to enter publishing.
00:21:46.000Um if you were I think the a great time is the nineties for that because you had let's see, Michael Crichton, and then you had John Grisham, like every other year there was some Michael Crichton movie and then a John Grisham movie, and they had the best directors, actors of the day, uh producers of the day, and then people bought books they were still reading back then because there yet wasn't yet the internet, there wasn't yet all these other things that distract you.
00:22:06.000That was like I think that was maybe the golden age of being an author uh and adapting your stuff to to film or television, mostly film back then.
00:22:17.000It's still fun to create, still fun to do all this, still fun to be in Morocco doing this stuff and there's guys like you that are still doing it.
00:22:22.000Yeah, you know, it's still it's still doable.
00:23:02.000And uh he's a a cop that's uh kind of down on his luck and he's uh he's on suspension or whatever, and uh he lives in the Keys, so it has that whole keys vibe, and they film it down there, and so you recognize if you've been there, you recognize all these places.
00:23:14.000But uh Carl Hyaston is the author, and he he has he's uh he has this uh he's very unique style.
00:23:19.000But what he says about Hollywood is he drives to the border of California, he throws his book over the border, they throw a bunch of money back at him and he drives back to back to Florida, and that's how and whatever happens, happens.
00:23:28.000You know, it's uh so that's that's one way to look at it.
00:23:31.000But most authors aren't involved in their in their in uh in whatever happens.
00:23:34.000They like to get rid of that author right away so you're not on set saying you ruined my vision.
00:23:48.000Yeah, you want to make it the best show you possibly can.
00:23:50.000Yeah, when I saw the terminal list, I was like, this is about as close as you can get and do a TV show in you know, and not have it rated you know, NC17, like super hypergraphic.
00:24:18.000And that one, I that has the hunting stuff in it.
00:24:20.000So once again, now I think if we'd like for some reason, if we'd started with that, or if I'd started with that as a book, that it would have been much more difficult because Amazon uh would have been much more hesitant.
00:24:28.000But since we had a success with the terminal list, now they're taking this risk with us.
00:24:41.000Instead, I had this whole journey across in the book, It's the Atlantic and the show It's gonna be the Pacific.
00:24:46.000But going across this, this uh this journey of violent redemption, he still thinks he's gonna die, gets to Mozambique, still thinks he's gonna die, doesn't die yet, and so because he has his tumor and then uses the skills from Iraq and Afghanistan to help with the poaching problem over there.
00:24:59.000And then the book really the s actual story kicks off from there.
00:25:02.000But I thought it was gonna be would be disingenuous to the reader to have this character that went through all the things that he went through in the terminal list, all this traumatic stuff, losing his family, losing his whole troop in Afghanistan, and then all of a sudden he's okay and just out to save the world in the next book.
00:25:14.000And uh so I had to take him on this journey.
00:25:16.000And I kind of thought that my a my editor and publisher would say, Hey, cut out the first third of this book and we got something here.
00:25:21.000Instead, they didn't say any of that, and uh they took this risk with me, and it really differentiated that book and me as an author.
00:25:27.000And now Amazon's doing the same thing.
00:25:29.000So we have Chris Pratt going across the ocean, he's got this crazy long hair, he lost a ton of weight for this thing, he's like battling the storms and his demons, and uh then gets to Mozambique and same thing, goes through this second episode where he's out there doing this poacher thing, using his skills out there, and we filmed in Africa, so we got these amazing just the landscapes, beautiful.
00:25:47.000It's probably one of the most beautiful uh uh visions of Africa that I've ever seen on film.
00:25:52.000And Chris Pratt Chris is totally into it, of course, and the guy who got to play Rich Hastings, I don't know if we can say his name yet, but uh he's just awesome.
00:26:25.000But that is a risk that Amazon's taking is to do those first two episodes to invest all this money in this thing where yeah, it has something to do with the development of the character, but not really to do with the rest of the story in him than save the world.
00:26:46.000Like the first one, there was notes constantly.
00:26:48.000Like they didn't want Chris to get somebody.
00:26:50.000They were very they they didn't want that to happen, and then we did it anyway, and they uh they ended up being on every billboard in LA for the opening month.
00:26:56.000Uh all that they didn't want the uh the Secretary of Defense to die.
00:26:59.000They didn't want so uh there was all sorts of things that uh that they they were very nervous about, but they ended up going with us, they ended up trusting us.
00:27:05.000But now we didn't have to fight for it in the second season of Dark Wolf because we have that trust.
00:28:41.000But Taylor had to run through this uh cobblestone, these cobblestone streets through this tunnel, uh, and that's the one where I get stitched up and and fall over, so I get the little stuntman pay out of that.
00:28:50.000That might uh quite a not quite a thousand dollars, I don't think, for take taking that big fall.
00:28:54.000Bro, nobody works harder than stunt man.
00:28:56.000Seriously, those guys and girls take a friggin' beating.
00:29:04.000There's a there's a um uh with uh uh uh this guy and the big big dude uh and uh and one of the girls in the show getting this this uh fight in this apartment.
00:29:13.000I don't know if you saw that that episode, but the stunt person who got thrown into this refrigerator.
00:29:18.000Oh my it was and there was like a tiny little pad in the refrigerator, and she just gets thrown into this thing.
00:29:23.000And uh we try to keep every fights realistic, so we made a very uh deliberate decision at the beginning of the terminal list not to do the John Wick style because you just don't want to do John Wick style, but not as good.
00:29:32.000You know, you don't want to have everything authentic and realistic and then have this choreographed uh fight sequence that everyone that looks visually stunning but is not really uh realistic for anybody who's ever been in a fight or watched UFC or anything like that.
00:29:44.000Um so we so we wanted to make sure that these things are are are primal, visceral, and uh just physical and brutal.
00:29:52.000And uh but it's a smaller girl against this huge guy, so we didn't want to have that like the girl power thing, and all of a sudden people roll their eyes and say, you know, one punch from this guy and she's done.
00:30:01.000Uh so she shoots him like three times before the fight, as he's rushing in on her.
00:30:04.000So okay, we're gonna we're gonna uh we're gonna even this out.
00:30:06.000And still some people got upset about it online.
00:30:08.000They're like, how could she uh you know, how did she, you know, uh best this guy in a fight?
00:30:13.000And well, because she shot him three times and then in the fourth time in the middle of the fight, and she takes a beating.
00:30:18.000And uh, but the stunt the stunt lady who did this was amazing, and she she took a beating too, especially when she got thrown into that fridge.
00:30:27.000Yeah, yeah, that was and it's hard to watch because you're talking to him and then they go on set and do their thing, and you're like, oh, but you feel like you know them now, so you feel like you just know this person that's now getting beat up, and you're watching from that video village, and you're like, oh, just cringing seeing this stuff.
00:30:39.000Uh but it's good, it came out came out fantastic.
00:30:41.000That's why guys like Tom Cruise are so nuts.
00:31:13.000Actually, watched it on the plane back because there we did a uh uh my flight like last second, so I was in uh economy between two people, and so when I do that, I can't work.
00:31:22.000And uh so on like a 10-hour flight, uh I decided to watch the movie, so I watched Fallout again just because of that, because I wanted to see if I could tell what was filmed after and what was filmed before that sequence.
00:32:53.000Jumping out with uh was it Henry Cavill and him jump out the back of the plane and fall out and they're uh but yeah, they he's jumping out of those planes and it's legitimate for him.
00:33:56.000It's been so many projects, and I put myself at the bottom of my priority list uh and focus on family and writing and then the screenwriting and all the other projects that are out there, and it's it's it's amazing.
00:34:05.000But I did get way out of shape and the worst shape of my life.
00:34:08.000And it showed in that photo that we took.
00:34:10.000I'm like, oh, look at Joe, he looks in such great shape.
00:34:12.000I'm like, so uh August 1st or something, I'm like, all right, I'm in.
00:34:16.000And uh I started doing the hang, of course, and then have my outside workout area that's like um like Rocky Four style, and uh so it's right there in the mountains, and so I'm just starting I'm just all in getting after it.
00:34:26.000We rented a place in town that uh that had a had a sauna to get our kids closer to school for a year to see because we're kind of remote.
00:34:33.000And uh so we wanted him to have our son to have the experience of riding his bike to school and all that stuff, so we rented a house, but it had an amazing sauna in it.
00:34:39.000So I was doing that exactly, what 17 minutes and 30 seconds, whatever he's supposed to do.
00:34:42.000Whatever I heard someone on this podcast tell me I was supposed to do whatever you told me to do, I was doing that.
00:34:46.000And I was going outside getting like 10 minutes of sun here, 10 minutes of sun there, doing the workouts, doing the cardio stuff, doing doing all of it.
00:34:53.000And uh, I got in great it's probably one of the best shapes of my life.
00:35:49.000And uh until I go to sleep, until super late, and then I'm up because the kids still get up at the same time, and so I'm up, so I'm maybe an hour of sleep, two hours of sleep, whatever, and then I'm up out of a canon and it's going.
00:36:18.000But typically a lot of writers aren't very especially the older ones uh from back in the day, they're not uh not the healthiest of individuals.
00:36:59.000I think it contributes to the culture of journalism in the modern era, with this uh sort of like really shitty uh attack journalism that's become very prevalent.
00:37:41.000Yeah, just I feel like it's I should be doing something like that, but not uh not too much.
00:37:44.000I mean, having my I built a library and one side of it was a bar, and I never got to touch anything because at book signings people bring me a lot of uh a lot of whiskey.
00:37:51.000And uh so I I have it in my bags or I s mail it from the road or whatever, and uh so I have this whole wall of whiskey uh and other stuff too.
00:37:58.000But I never get to partake in it because I'm always writing.
00:37:59.000I'm always like I could pour something, but no, I gotta this is my time, it's quiet, I'm not being interrupted.
00:39:04.000And uh particularly when people are dealing with sleep deprivation.
00:39:08.000It also uh for some reason has like pretty great benefits uh m more so even for women uh and sleep deprivation.
00:39:16.000There's been a bunch of different studies going, but it's in terms of cognitive performance after sleep deprivation and reaction time after sleep deprivation.
00:39:38.000Well, when I get back after this and see myself in our photo today, I will uh uh get back to uh I'll use I'll use four scoops.
00:39:45.000Well, it it'll definitely make your muscles a little stronger and larger, but the reason I'm doing it is not just for that, it's for the brain.
00:39:57.000One, I was going back to 1968, took a lot ta longer than I thought for this research, and then two, I was getting in shape at the same time.
00:40:03.000Were you listening to like 1968 music back then?
00:40:12.000I was watching the Vietnam documentaries, I was reading everything I could possibly find on Vietnam from the day.
00:40:17.000Um these old Army Special Forces manuals that they had before the guys would go over there that talked about the Montyard tribes they were gonna be working with.
00:40:24.000Uh for those that are watching or listening, it's like Apocalypse Now, like the Montyards like tribes and all that stuff.
00:40:30.000Um and uh then I'll then I was reading the more modern stuff too.
00:40:32.000I was reading things from the 70s, eighties.
00:40:34.000I got um National Geographic magazines from the 60s.
00:40:37.000Uh I think there's one from the late fifties even, so I was doing everything I possibly could to transport myself back.
00:40:42.000Um listening to some history history podcasts about uh JFK, about uh uh about Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King, things that were happening here, about the election, Nixon's elections, everything that was happening in 1968.
00:40:53.000I was just trying to immerse myself in that world.
00:40:56.000Um so that when I sat down to this, I didn't have to do a huge shift, and it would be it was already had this uh I was building on this foundation, rubber foundation I already had, as then I sat down in front of the computer to write rather than watching something here contemporary, getting all upset about something that X is feeding me to keep me enraged, and then uh then trying to jump back to 1968.
00:41:14.000Instead, I just like transported myself back there for uh it felt like months at a time.
00:43:58.000Because you can kind of just go right from the factory, and you know, a lot of those guys like to go off-road and you could get your factory uh setting in the back where it's got all the electrical and everything.
00:44:07.000So you could set up a stove, you can set up a little refrigerator back there.
00:45:33.000I have two eighty series now, both stock uh 96.
00:45:35.000And I love those because they're just modern enough, but they're they need someone to do a little work on them.
00:45:40.000They make some strange noises, but they they work.
00:45:42.000But they uh my son like pick them up in school in it, and he's like, ah, dad.
00:45:45.000Because they're still making this crazy it's it's almost like it's the it's going over the speed limit thing, but it's constant, so it's just performed.
00:45:51.000Fucking hundreds of thousands of miles.
00:45:53.000Yeah, these have over a hundred uh both of them, but uh so I love that and have a 78 FJ 40 that I love.
00:45:58.000Um so that's pretty uh I love that one, and it's uh it's all completely restored, so it's all all original for the most part.
00:46:24.000So I'm thinking the land cruiser guy, and I tested out the United States didn't work out for me, but that's not to say that they won't work out for someone else.
00:47:12.000And also make the lights so that the the auxiliary lights will turn on when it's not in the off-road mode.
00:47:16.000If I don't know if you tried that, but they're the auxiliary lights.
00:47:18.000They uh except for the light bar on the top, but the other ones in the front, like you have to be in off-road mode for some legal reason.
00:47:23.000So you have to, I mean, sure someone can bypass it somehow, but when I come up to our house, there's no there's no lights and it's a long drive up there into the mountains, and I just want to hit the switch and have just daylight in front of me.
00:47:34.000And uh that was not possible with that.
00:47:36.000I got my land cruiser set up where if I was in a dark field, you would think a UFO land.
00:47:59.000I did drive an I drove a uh G-Wagon yesterday.
00:48:02.000So we landed, went right to Staccato, and uh so they had a uh uh a portion of G-Wagon right there, and I was like, oh man, I was I'm I'm I think my wife's telling me I need to get something more modern that's gonna be reliable.
00:48:12.000We're not gonna just break down all the time.
00:48:14.000And uh and so I'm like, they said, we'll drive it, drive this thing.
00:48:53.000Yeah, but you can you can get one of those old ones, and people have done amazing builds where they put like large tires on them, they raise it up a little bit, and they put like strong steel bumpers and like rock sliders on the side, and you know, it's a beast of a truck.
00:49:09.000I'll probably need something new at some point.
00:50:13.000The guys got over to Africa to start filming this thing in uh we got there in February or March.
00:50:16.000Anyway, we went over there and uh the advanced crew went over first to get everything set up, and then Chris and I came over a little bit later and when everything was all set up, but the guys were texting back after they were doing all the um uh the the advanced work for the different places we're gonna go shoot, and they're like, now we understand your obsession with the land cruiser.
00:50:32.000Yeah, they're all driving land cruisers in Africa.
00:50:35.000Oh yeah, once you get over to any rough place and you realize like, oh, you want a car that one hundred percent is gonna work for you.
00:51:02.000Yeah, I collected all the uh the SOG Seiko's because this is Mac V songs so I collected all those.
00:51:07.000I think there's four of them that uh that they've uh they've seen pictures of Mac V saw guys wearing going into Laos, Cambodia, North Vietnam, which is what the book is uh is focused on.
00:51:14.000So not only did I try to transport myself back by listening to all these things, but I had the watch right there, like this is 1968 uh Rolex, like I'm gonna do it.
00:52:10.000It's not like just some guy that went out and bought an expensive watch.
00:52:12.000They're like, okay, if someone put a lot of thought into this, like you wearing the Willard and me having those MacVie sogs and this one from 1968.
00:52:18.000Um it's uh it it it tells you put a little more thought into this sort of thing than like just what's an expensive watch or something.
00:52:31.000Yeah, it's a little thinner than I than I thought when it came though in the band's a little different, it kind of makes some noise there, but I I love this.
00:52:37.000And so it's these and the tutors that guys were wearing back in Vietnam, the SEALs in particular.
00:52:43.000I've been wanting to get one for years because when I got to the SEAL teams, they were this is a rumor, so I never saw it with my own eyes.
00:52:48.000But uh so it's secondhand information, is that they're in supply, they were destroying the tutors with hammers.
00:52:55.000And I can't then because now we're getting issued Seiko's, and so they'd issued these to the guys that actually they jumped in to get the Apollo uh spacecraft.
00:53:02.000Uh seals jumped in after those things, UDT seals, uh, to get those guys out of the water.
00:53:06.000And uh and uh these people in supply, I think in the the 90s were destroying the tutors for some reason, probably because they were told to, uh so guys wouldn't get them and sell them or something like that.
00:53:15.000But uh but I did I track one down recently through the through uh watches of espionage and uh he found me a new tutor and then or uh an old tutor, but I got that, and then we did a little documentary with some old guys from uh the 70s from in the 60s that were SEALs in Vietnam and they were pulled out of Vietnam, they were in Vietnam one day, and then the next day they were off the in the Pacific on an aircraft carrier waiting to recover the uh the Apollo astronauts.
00:53:45.000Because now they're kill they were taking lives in Vietnam, and then they're supposed to they're now they're just throwing into this this on these helicopters to jump into the ocean to save lives.
00:53:59.000I love these old ads, Rolex ads from it must be the sixties, I think they're sixties, seventies, eighties.
00:54:03.000I mean, there's some from the early eighties where they have a guy like with a rhino, and it's like the editor of Guns and Ammo magazine with his dead rhino, where's a Rolex.
00:54:12.000And they had at least yeah, they had like two of those types of ads back then.
00:54:15.000I don't like to acknowledge that today, I don't think all that's but uh but they had but that was like in the early 80s, that's what they were they were still marketing towards that.
00:54:38.000Frederick Forsyth, the author actually had one.
00:54:40.000They used to do they used to do uh had a relationship with him in the 70s and 80s, and they're like, here's Frederick Forsyth who wrote Day of the Jackal, wearing his jackal coat uh in front of this Jaguar.
00:54:49.000And uh it's just you never see that today.
00:55:46.000Just weird that that became it went from being like this manly, super durable thing to like when did people really start getting into watches and collecting them?
00:56:00.000I mean, I think it's always been a thing because you can go back and find like amazing uh Paddock Phillips and stuff like that and go back and find the Omegas, the old Rolexes, and it's a thing.
00:56:09.000Yeah, now it's gotten a little crazy, which why I like the vintage stuff because it puts a little more just like the cars, just like it's my time machine.
00:56:15.000Now when people have like those Richard Millet watches, and you hear they're a half million dollars like more.
00:56:32.000The rumor is that one of the first watches that he was supposed to sell was supposed to be fifteen thousand dollars, but someone put an extra zero on it.
00:57:29.000So it's uh it changes things a little bit.
00:57:31.000So uh but that's but it tells me a story, just like uh like the characters in the books, but the watches in particular are important.
00:57:37.000Um one because it's important to to me as a watch guy my whole life.
00:57:40.000For some reason, I just had this connection with with time and the value of time, and so I've always been a watch guy my whole my whole life.
00:57:45.000And uh so putting these watches on characters that tell you something about that character, uh like in Dark Wolf, they have to get rid of their G Shocks and go get something more that would make look a little more European and uh for when they transition over from being these SEAL guys to being these CIA operatives and uh drop get rid of the gators, but we say, get rid of the gators, get some sunglasses, get some expensive watches, that sort of thing.
00:58:05.000But I still wanted something that had a connection to the SEAL team.
00:58:08.000So uh picked a tutor for uh for Taylor Kitch's character, and uh I got that one.
00:58:12.000I got to keep that one, so that was that was pretty cool.
00:58:14.000Um and then put a panor eye on um on Rafe Hastings, Tom Hopper's character, uh, to differentiate him a bit from uh from um Ben Edwards, the Taylor Kitch character, but and also Tom's a big dude, so you need a big watch on that guy.
00:58:29.000I think all the all the Like my wife and her friends were so excited about Taylor being in the show because the Texas Forever, you know, and they were all coming up during that time frame where he's on Friday Night Lights and all that stuff.
00:58:38.000And then uh then Tom Hopper gets out of the pool without a shirt on, and they're like, Oh, Tom Hopper.
00:58:58.000It's also what is it like having this thing that you sat down by yourself, this world that you created, and now you're you're not just selling books, but you're filming the visual representation of your work.
00:59:16.000I just feel so much gratitude towards everyone involved.
00:59:20.000And uh, of course, the people who made it happen, most specifically Chris, because if Chris didn't want to do it, didn't want to option it, probably wouldn't happen.
00:59:25.000Um wouldn't have happened, and we wouldn't be on this journey together, and he's so invested in it.
00:59:29.000Um you mentioned some other shows earlier, and there's just there's a difference between an actor who gets paid to do something, does it, and moves on to the next project, and somebody like Chris who is so invested in this.
00:59:39.000And I think the other actors see that, and Taylor's like this by nature.
00:59:42.000Uh like American Primeval, any role Taylor takes on, he is uh just so invested in it.
00:59:46.000It's not just a paycheck, like it is it's gonna now become part of his experience.
00:59:50.000Yeah, and uh and he really looks at it through uh through that kind of a lens.
00:59:53.000So to have guys like that involved that are so personally connected to the material and also to the community, like the veteran community writ large, um, it means something to them.
01:00:05.000So when I walk on set, uh it is surreal, and to know that everybody is and people come up to me all the time on set and thank me for creating this universe, allowing them to be there.
01:00:14.000Um, but not just that they can be there working on a set, it's that we have created mostly through Chris, Antoine Fukua, David A Gilio, all these guys at the top, David DiGulio's the showrunner, and to have build this family.
01:00:26.000And people come up to me all the time and they say that they've been involved in hundreds of Hollywood productions and they've never felt this way on a set before.
01:00:32.000And that's because you're filming these things for seven, eight months, and that doesn't count all the all the work that goes into the scripts ahead of time and all the post-production.
01:01:15.000I it is and uh I mean it trickles down from the top, yeah, you know, comes out comes down from the top for sure.
01:01:22.000Um and even at the rap party, uh people these guys hang out after, like all the actors hang out afterward.
01:01:27.000The cast, the crew, everybody's hanging out after hours.
01:01:29.000They're not just turning into ghosts, they're hanging out, having a great time.
01:01:33.000Uh rap party, like uh I've heard that a lot of the the like number one on the call sheets, maybe they'll make a quick appearance and leave or something like that.
01:01:39.000I mean, Chris is there, he's in it, having a great time.
01:01:42.000Uh everyone thanking everybody, and such a such a great guy.
01:01:45.000Uh he's a very normal guy for a movie star, he's oddly normal.
01:01:49.000Yeah, yeah, he's a normal guy that's like I mean, just like us.
01:01:52.000We spent time with him, you know, outside of anything.
01:01:54.000Well, I hung out with him in hunting camp.
01:03:21.000And that's how we finished up the show is to finish that, all the casting crew around at night, all the lights, underwater stuff, Chris getting yanked out of the water, and then that was the end, and we went right to the party from there.
01:03:34.000Um, and uh and me and Chris and the showrunner and Jared Shaw, who you you met when we were hunting that time, who gave Chris the book, former CEO buddy of mine, and uh and so we all had to talk about the future of the show.
01:03:58.000Uh one because how much I put into it, and one, I want to get better with everything that I every book I think has gotten better as I go along.
01:04:05.000And if I can say that truthfully to myself, then I feel like I'm doing doing my job and doing my service to the story, which in turn serves the reader, people who are trusting me with his time that they're never gonna get back.
01:04:14.000Well, it's like every other skill, right?
01:04:16.000The more time you invest in it, and the more you hone it, and the more attention.
01:04:30.000And this one, I mean, like there's a lot of pressure from publishers also to get things in on time, because now I sell like maybe at the beginning it didn't matter, but at this stage it it matters because of the number of books that are being sold.
01:04:42.000So they need to and it's a business, and so they need to make their their numbers.
01:04:45.000And so, as a creative person, they are putting a lot of pressure to get it done.
01:04:52.000I have to like the hey, whatever pressure is put on me from the outside, I've got to focus on this story, and it's gonna be done when it's done, because it has to be the best that it can possibly be.
01:05:00.000And uh, but that's a lot of that's a lot of pressure coming in from the outside, and you have to fend it off.
01:05:03.000But I can see, you know, how if you're I can see it being very easy to just say, okay, I got to a hundred thousand words, I gotta wrap this thing up.
01:05:44.000He we use his voice in uh in Dark World for those those listening.
01:05:47.000They'll uh they'll be able to recognize it.
01:05:49.000But that's awesome skill to be able to do all those different voices and accents and then not have it jarring that a man is playing a woman.
01:05:57.000Yeah, you know, which is weird because he plays he's gotta play a woman's voice.
01:06:32.000I gave him a tough one in this one too.
01:06:33.000I have a guy who's actually based on a real person in the book he lives in real life, he died in, I think, 1965.
01:06:39.000But it was a uh a Finnish officer who uh got the uh whatever the Finnish uh cross is, it's in the book.
01:06:46.000I forget exactly what it is, but then fought for the Germans and got like the German Manheim Cross or something, and then after World War II, they tried to grab a bunch of people who had uh experience in essentially eastern Europe to bring over to our military so that we would have experience if we went to war with the Soviets.
01:07:01.000And so they brought all these guys in into the military, and so then he gets a bronze star in the United States military, Army Special Forces, his helicopter went down.
01:07:08.000I think it was 1965, but he was part of Mac V Sog.
01:07:11.000So I fictionalized his character in here.
01:07:13.000So I had to give those three so I have to have so Finnish, German, and English kind of a morph, and Ray Porter has to do that.
01:07:21.000And so he has to read that and uh and come up with something like that, and he he pulls it off.
01:07:47.000So he's in uh Almost Famous uh a bunch of sitcoms in the 90s and uh just but just an awesome dude but but yeah audiobooks I think it's because of podcasts.
01:07:56.000I think people listen to a podcast and it is a very natural way to then get whatever you're talking about on the podcast through the same medium.
01:08:04.000It's just a very natural transition to listen to the audio book.
01:08:06.000And a lot of people are doing both thank goodness.
01:08:08.000So they're getting the hardcover and then they're listening on the car on the way home and then they get inside and they're reading a little bit before bed, get up to go to work in the morning, pick up again where they left off reading.
01:08:18.000Well you know Audible the way it works with Tinder Tinder Kindle rather there's uh there's an app where it'll pick up where you are what is it exactly what is it?
01:08:51.000I can't do the Kindle I feel that I do so much work on a screen that I don't want to have something I read for enjoyment to be the same thing.
01:08:58.000So I want it to be I'm in a physical book to go through I just I'm just that kind of guy.
01:09:01.000The dope thing about a Kindle though is you can get 80 books on it or probably 8000 instead of my luggage I don't even know how many you can get on him honestly but and then though also the white paper screen where it really does look like paper.
01:09:13.000Yeah still for me once again like the watches like the cars I have a thing it's a theme.
01:09:16.000Oh listen my wife's the same way she won't she only reads book books to feel the books.
01:09:21.000I love that a lot of people are like it's like there's a it's a thing that you have in your hands and you're turning the pages is like the tactile feeling and you gotta have that when you're halfway into the book like oh my God things are getting crazy I'm halfway in here.
01:09:33.000This is how's he gonna wrap this up you can't see it rather than I'm at 37%.
01:09:37.000Exactly I mean anything just a different type of uh type of a deal but I picked up uh Charlie Sheen's book in the airport on the way here oh did you and uh so I'm reading that about halfway through because he's coming on my on the podcast and I want to talk to him and ask him about you know apocalypse I'm gonna keep it to apocalypse now platoon navy seals kind of like keep it in in that kind of thing but reading that book oh my gosh it's it's amazing but I had to buy it I couldn't just get it on the P I already had the PDF they sent it to me but I wanted to buy the book.
01:09:59.000I wanted to physically have it and make my notes in there and all that so um so I'm so I'm doing that but listening to him on this on your podcast was uh it was so interesting.
01:10:07.000Oh you should yeah this is what I told people like you can't be normal if you're on the set of apocalypse now when you're 10 years old and then 10 years later you're in platoon.
01:10:20.000Yeah you're the lead yeah in platoon ten years later like how is yeah how do you expect that guy to be normal yeah no one can handle that it's not handleable.
01:10:30.000Yeah that level of stardom is uh especially in the eighties before phones and everything else when they got after it and the drugs yeah I mean he was involved in so much drugs from early on.
01:10:41.000Yeah and back then you could do drugs you didn't die.
01:10:44.000He didn't die was in all fentanyl actually one of the ladies he talked about in the documentary that gave him a blowjob while he was smoking crack for the first time.
01:10:52.000I saw that she died of an overdose but you gotta try hard it's not like today you gotta accidentally do a snort of Coke and then it's fentanyl as and you're dead.
01:11:01.000And that's a hundred thousand people in America every year.
01:11:31.000You know it seems like it he uh he he he likes a fan of the books beforehand so he likes all this stuff likes Dark Wolf likes Terminal List all that stuff.
01:11:38.000So yeah so that'll be fun to fun to talk to him and also I went to see Navy SEALs the the day before it came out there was a showing at like midnight on Thursday or something like that before it came out on Friday back when I was in uh in high school and I knew I was going to be a SEO so I was so excited I'm like they cast Charlie Sheen the guy from Platoon in this I'm like ah perfect casting and uh and so I went and saw it then so it'll be fun to talk to him about that stuff.
01:11:57.000And I do remember we I did meet him at a is it Red Sox game is that the one that they watch is that his team I think so but him and his dad were in a box next to us so I was still in the SEAL teams and I was with some of the guys that were on the Bin Laden raid and we were in one of the the owners boxes, and uh and Charlie Sheen was next to us with his dad.
01:12:12.000And uh somehow they got to talking or whatever, and so we went over there, he came over to us, I can't remember, with his dad and uh said hi, and he was he was fantastic, his dad was such a gentleman.
01:12:22.000But Charlie Sheen was awesome, so personable, he was great, but his dad was so nice, and I stand like an old school type gentleman is what stood out about Martin Sheen.
01:12:30.000And then what also stands out is then we then left there at the end of the game, and there was a line of girls down the I'll tell him this when I see if he remembers you might not remember.
01:12:39.000But it probably happened almost every day for him.
01:12:42.000Just a line of girls down the hallway outside of the owner's box.
01:12:56.000And then you guys came back in and had to deal with the the Charlie Kirk assassination, and I thought you guys handled that in such a such a thoughtful way, real time.
01:13:04.000Uh that's a tough position for both you guys to be in.
01:13:23.000I was signing the the books right there that day with my chief of staff, and and uh she was passing me the books and I'm signing them.
01:13:29.000We're checking off the the names for these pub boxes, and uh all of a sudden her phone goes off and I hear she screams and uh it's like whoa, what happened?
01:13:36.000And her husband is uh in the security field.
01:13:38.000Um, and uh she said Charlie Kirk's been shot in Utah.
01:13:41.000I'm like so I of course go to X and then see it.
01:13:45.000And I think I didn't get to my kids in time because uh my daughter and our youngest son are both uh follow him, think feel like they know him essentially, and I didn't get to them in time before they they saw it.
01:13:54.000So our youngest I was most concerned about uh seeing that, being away from home at boarding school, and uh anyway, called the school, one of the guys uh there's like a trusted agent, he's like a guy's guy like us, and went over and tracked him down and he was doing fine.
01:14:06.000But it's uh it's different than seeing in the paper or on having Walter Cronkite report that JFK was killed.
01:14:14.000Uh challenger for us in school when you're growing up, like we saw it explode, but you're not seeing the people, you're not seeing it as viscerally it from all these different angles from cell phones immediately, so graphic.
01:14:25.000Uh just so heartbreaking, so so heartbreaking.
01:14:28.000Um but you guys, I mean you guys were had to do it like real time, and uh you guys were very thoughtful about how you don't know.
01:14:36.000It it always feels surreal when someone dies, but when someone gets assassinated like that, and then there was the weirdness of the reactions of people that that was the most disturbing aspect of it where I was like, what is what have we done?
01:14:50.000I know like what have we done to people's minds with social media and with political discourse that you are thrilled that someone was murdered in front of his children on the internet for the world to see, and you're you are celebrating because you didn't like his ideas.
01:15:15.000I mean, you feel you could feel the the evil, and as much as I tried not to look at all these reactions, it's just being fed to me because of the the algorithm and everything else.
01:15:23.000So there were two in particular, one guy, one lady, and they were like cackling, like a witch's cackle, like out of a like some sort of a uh some sort of a fairy tale that's meant to scare kids that you know, but in real life, celebrating the death of Charlie Kirk, and I mean that was revolting, but you could feel the evil through the cackles.
01:15:41.000I've I mean very few times I should say.
01:15:44.000I think a lot of it is very performative, and I think a lot of people are doing it for clicks and likes, and they think that there's a lot of like-minded people that feel the way they feel, and then there was a a wave of people that were like excited about losing someone who was a right-wing influencer.
01:16:18.000You know, I have I've had multiple friends that encountered people celebrating in real life.
01:16:23.000One of my friends w was at a cafe writing, and this lady came in and she was on a Zoom call, and uh she it was right after the assassination, and she gets in the Zoom call and she's like, Well, I don't know about you guys, but I am having a great day now.
01:16:39.000And they were like, This is a great day.
01:17:05.000You're you're you want that attached to you for the rest of your life, and you don't take one second to say, uh, maybe even from a practical standpoint, like maybe I should just sit this out.
01:17:13.000Even if I feel happy, maybe I should do some reevaluations.
01:17:15.000But even if that's not the case, uh like maybe I should just sit this one out type of a thing.
01:17:19.000But instead they feel comfortable to jump on and say those things.
01:17:23.000And I I mean you felt the I mean I could feel the evil coming through the phone, which is a strange thing to say.
01:17:27.000And I've been like in Bagram early on in the war in Afghanistan.
01:17:30.000I remember the uh I forget for I don't know if it was a really a black site prison, but it was like a nasty prison.
01:17:34.000Like had this smell and you could feel like this like kind of this overriding sense of I don't know, yeah, despair, but also like this little little bit of uh a current of evil in there, and then same thing in Baghdad where they held Saddam, like being in there.
01:17:44.000I've been in both those places, and uh and you kind of feel a little and but even more so you feel it with Saddam's kids, and they're like they have these little islands and palaces, and you know what they did there, uh they could pull in girls off the street and that sort of thing, and you just feel dirty or you feel evil.
01:17:58.000I mean you sense it in some of those places, but uh but I felt that same kind of thing coming through the phone, and then I felt it again.
01:18:05.000My wife when I were in Paris, like I said, right before I came out here.
01:18:09.000Uh so it was Morocco finishing the show for about a month, then to Paris, and it happened to be Fashion Week, and we weren't there for Fashion Week, it just happened to be Fashion Week.
01:18:16.000So it's uh which is still going on now, I think.
01:18:18.000But we were in this uh we wanted to go to one dinner where we could see some people, kind of do some people watching, and I could uh store some of it away for books and that's what I'm always collecting.
01:18:26.000And so we went to the one at the place that uh Kardashians again where they stay called like COTIS or co- Anyway, went into this hotel that's that's uh where a lot of the fashion people stay.
01:18:34.000We're seeing some people just treat the weight staff horribly.
01:18:37.000Um and so you're getting kind of taking some notes on that, and uh and then this guy walks in with like two minions and you don't see his face because he's got this like hood on, but there are these earrings that are attached to the outside and they're hanging down and he's this like fairly obese person.
01:18:52.000And so you never saw his face the way he was he we he walked in and then sat in front of us with these two guys on either side that had their sunglasses on and they were like both dressed very similarly and both side of them and they just were looking at him like this and just it it was so odd, but you felt this sense of evil, and I hate I I don't really like using that word too much, but you felt something odd so much so that uh we paid the bill and left.
01:19:16.000And uh similar thing that I felt coming across the phone with those people celebrating.
01:19:20.000Who was like I don't know, we were gonna go back to our hotel and look up, like try to see like who's at Fashion Week, who dresses this way, because it was very strange.
01:19:27.000It was like these black robes, and it was just the weirdest thing.
01:19:31.000Yeah, but attached through the through the like like your hoodies on and kind of like clipped to the outside or something and coming down like from the outside of like this thin hoodie, it was very bizarre.
01:21:23.000But I but's probably ruined the party.
01:21:25.000But I th when I'm thinking about it, if I think about it logically, you know when you like throw something into a fire, like at uh at Buds, guys would burn their dungarees and dungarees are uh like a regular Navy uniform.
01:21:40.000It was bell bottom jeans and a denim shirt, like tucked in that you had to starch you know, especially in boot camp in a way that like will you hold it out flat.
01:22:25.000Most people will be performance dropped after that for uh not being comfortable in the water for pool comp when you're getting pounded off the the bottom of the pool by uh uh by instructors and then you're having to go through the right procedures to get your air turned back on and continue to to crawl, and then they come and hit you again and rip your mask off and hit you in the gut, so you expel your air, turn off your air, tire because it's the two hoses, super old school, tie them in a knot, and they back off to see that you're comfortable in the water and that you're gonna go through the right procedures to get everything working again and continue on.
01:22:51.000So that's about 15 minutes of doing that.
01:22:53.000Uh and some people just aren't comfortable in the water.
01:23:45.000Same thing, like it's called uh life saving.
01:23:48.000So that's the other time you get to put your hands on the instructors is you have to go out and they'll act like a different type of person drowning, so they'll fight you or they're just dead weights or something like that, and they're different body types.
01:23:57.000And so you get to go, you swim out towards them, and then you have to get them back, and they'll take you down to the bottom, hit you off the bottom, and so they're doing the work in that in that that situation.
01:24:05.000And you just relax, hold on, just like you've got someone in like a rear naked choke type thing.
01:24:09.000And uh and then they have to go up, they're expending their energy keeping you down there.
01:24:12.000They're gonna have to go up and get the air.
01:24:13.000So just wait, up to the top, grab a little bit of air, get closer to the side of the pool, then they take you down again, type of a thing.
01:24:19.000And I love that because that's the only time you can put your hands on an instructor.
01:24:33.000Yeah, no, but there's some similarities there, just some similarities with body positions and and all that sort of thing, just being comfortable uh with uh with how to do it.
01:24:39.000But there's limitations on how you grab them.
01:24:42.000Yeah, they teach you how to how to how to grab them and how to get towards the side of the pool type of thing.
01:24:54.000I mean, I guess somebody could, you know, but that's uh that's like if you're a world champion free diver, if you're one of those 10 minute dudes.
01:25:00.000You do have some people like that to come through.
01:25:02.000You know, you do have some really incredible athletes that come through.
01:25:05.000And a lot of them don't make it because they're being treated like uh Ferraris or Lamborghinis most of their life if they're really an elite athlete.
01:25:11.000And then all of a sudden they're being treated like a like a Chevy, you know, and just thrown through walls or whatever, and it's like eh.
01:25:16.000Not uh crazy pressure test that has to be done.
01:25:19.000I mean, there's no real job that's similar other than you know, Rangers and other elite special forces teams where you have to get through this horrific thing to prove that you're the type of person that they want to train.
01:25:34.000Yeah, you've got to be able to do that.
01:25:35.000Like we're not sure if we want to train you even.
01:25:59.000And then the So the standard part, so even if they say that they're not lowering the standards, this is how they get around it.
01:26:05.000And this is military in general, um, that they give you more chances.
01:26:09.000So before if you only got one or two chances, maybe three, something like that, to pass an evolution, maybe the standard remains the same, but in order to get this person, said person through, now you get four chances, five chances, six chances, seven chances, eight chances.
01:26:24.000So they say the standards have not changed.
01:26:26.000Well, okay, not really, but you gave them a lot more chances, which you didn't give other people before who were washed out of the program because they only got one chance or two chances or three.
01:26:35.000So it's uh like what would it be that you would get more chances doing?
01:26:40.000I think you got uh yeah, two chances on the first day and two chances on the second day.
01:26:44.000And uh I passed the first day uh just I happen to be comfortable in the water, but uh but some guys made it through on that fourth one, like oh, made it just made it.
01:27:00.000Uh okay, one time you get some sort of a like a warning or something like that, and then you do it again, second time you're out, or whatever it is.
01:27:08.000Well, now you can just just as many times as it takes.
01:28:01.000I think there were a couple that tried it and haven't made it.
01:28:03.000I'm not sure because I'm so removed from it now.
01:28:05.000But uh I think they're at the I don't know if there's a push for it, but it's open now.
01:28:09.000And the part of that is it's for me, it's you know, I'll probably get canceled now.
01:28:13.000But uh, you know, or we maybe we're past that, I don't know.
01:28:15.000But uh to me it's it's not and what they what they say now we have to say officially, I think, is that the standards are the same, it doesn't matter if you're male or female, standards remain the same, okay, fine.
01:28:25.000Um but when you get to an elite unit like that or any unit, and this might be a failing on my part, I fully uh admit that.
01:28:32.000I mean, I was raised uh when a woman enters a room, you stand up, you open the door for a lady type of a thing, like those things.
01:28:38.000You stand up for like you're you're you're chivalrous, you're a gentleman type of a thing.
01:28:42.000Um and now all of a sudden in a leadership position, I'm supposed to treat a female the exact same way that I treat a male going into combat.
01:28:50.000There's no way I could possibly ever do that.
01:28:52.000I'm gonna be much more concerned about her than I am him.
01:28:54.000And once again, that might be a failing on my part, I fully accept that.
01:28:58.000But uh I'm glad I never had to deal with it in real life, but I see that being something that comes into play, especially if you're raised to protect as a as a protector, as a sentinel as a guardian, and uh now all of a sudden you're supposed to treat said female who've been raised to protect, uh treat them exactly the same way as a guy going into combat.
01:29:17.000There's certain physical realities I feel that we just have to address.
01:29:21.000When people want to talk about equality – I understand that when you're talking about jobs that don't require shooting people and stabbing people in hand-to-hand combat.
01:29:43.000I feel the same way about women, like if you wanted to have a cross gender combat sports, if you want to have m biological men fighting biological women.
01:29:52.000I don't care if they're the same weight.
01:30:17.000And if you have a physical requirement for all the men, and that physical requirement involves a lot of like heavy physical working out and labor.
01:30:25.000I don't know that a woman can pass that.
01:30:48.000And then you're supposed to all of a sudden change because of a policy directive.
01:30:51.000Um but yeah, I mean, we're going back to it.
01:30:52.000I mean, it's causing a little ruffling a lot of feathers with in the military right now, uh changing the Department of Defense to the Department of War, which is and I'm not saying that they got this from me.
01:31:00.000I'm just saying that they I've never heard anyone talk about it until I talked about it back in 2001.
01:31:06.000And uh I wrote some articles after the Afghanistan withdrawal, and I call and went on Fox a bunch of times and talked about how we need to precision and language reflects precision and thought.
01:31:14.000Department of Defense, Defense has a sort of connotation to it, a definition to it.
01:31:19.000And the Department of War is different than a Department of Defense, just the language of it.
01:31:23.000And I said we it's time to change the Department of Defense back to the Department of War, and I use the Afghanistan withdrawal as that example and put that in two articles.
01:31:30.000I think they both went on Town Hall, I believe.
01:31:32.000And then but I talked about it, and I had never heard anybody mention that before.
01:31:52.000Because one of the things that you talk about uh especially in the terminal list is horrific government corruption and the willingness to put soldiers' lives uh as expendable in order to profit.
01:32:10.000One of my favorite chapters is these two characters, Tom Reese uh and his buddy Quinn.
01:32:13.000So one special forces guy, one SEAL, and they're having this conversation on China Beach.
01:32:17.000And uh it was great to write those chapters and do uh all this research into China Beach and Denang and uh who what kind of surfboards they were using, how they were shaved, like all this stuff just to bring you back to that uh to that time frame.
01:32:27.000But that's what they're talking about.
01:32:31.000And uh people find out where the tomahawk came from, where the watch came from, where honey and the coffee came from.
01:32:36.000So all these little things are kind of woven in there as well.
01:32:39.000But exactly what you just talked about is a conversation in this book in 1968, and it's the same conversation that we're having today.
01:32:45.000Um but uh I don't want to say I take heat over it, and I'm never gonna worry in a chapter or a book about uh who's who I'm gonna alienate by writing something uh here are criminals.
01:33:24.000I have a cameo in there that I live through at the uh at the end of the show on episode seven.
01:33:28.000I'm the guard that uh that takes the guy's ID as he's leaving the uh and I have a one line, I think it's I say I say something anyway.
01:33:34.000But uh it was very cool to be there in front of that memorial wall, that wall of stars, uh especially knowing some of those guys that are on there that are memorialized by those stars.
01:33:43.000Um so the CIA was very uh kind to let us use that lobby.
01:33:47.000Um they didn't ask us to change anything in the show, didn't put any restraints or restrictions on anything.
01:33:52.000Um they just let us use it, and that was very cool.
01:33:54.000Some guys came down that didn't need to come down that day, which was really cool.
01:33:57.000Um, that wanted to talk to me about some stuff that I did in Iraq, and it was very, very cool to talk to them.
01:34:08.000The military does not let us use uh uh any aircraft carriers, submarines, helicopters, anything like that like they do for some other shows.
01:34:15.000And I think that's probably because I blew an admiral up in his office in the first episode or stuff, her series and then in the book.
01:34:37.000So it's uh and like in Jack Ryan and stuff, I think they use actual military helicopters and uh maybe an amphibi ship or something like that.
01:34:44.000So they get some support from they didn't.
01:35:42.000I knew the uh people would eventually come through a line, signing line, and say, I joined the military because of you, or I became a police officer because of something I read in your books.
01:35:49.000And because that's me, I was I was influenced by popular culture growing up and that helped me on my path into the SEAL teams.
01:36:20.000And uh like with David Morrell in uh in Phoenix the other night for the launch of the book, he has been through like burn units and stuff, saying hi to people as part of like USO tours and stuff, and people like missing arms and legs are totally burned, saying hey, I joined the military because of Rambo.
01:36:34.000And him, it's like, oh he's such a nice guy.
01:36:36.000He's just like oh I mean, it's like devastating, devastating.
01:37:11.000I wanted those guys who were not just Mac V Sog going over the borders uh and fighting this in denied areas where they weren't supposed to be in uh Cambodia Laos, North Vietnam, but uh anyone who stood up and went down there to serve, I wanted to make sure I honored them and gave my heart and soul to every word uh and I felt that responsibility as I was writing this.
01:37:27.000I wanted those guys to read it and say, Oh, he put in the effort to get it right.
01:37:31.000And even for people just lived through the 60s that didn't go downrange.
01:37:33.000I wanted them to read it and say, Oh, he tried to he got close.
01:37:36.000Even if I made a mistake here or there, like he put in the effort to try to capture the essence of 1968, and uh and that's so that's why so much work went into this.
01:37:44.000But those guys that went into the tunnels like that.
01:37:48.000That is some of those are some of the fucking craziest stories.
01:38:07.000That's gotta be some of the toughest fighting one can do in the dark in a tunnel under the ground, essentially by yourself because you can't fit anybody else in there with you.
01:39:06.000There was watching a guy, he was in the back of a truck and uh they were running and the drone is coming out and he's firing at the drone and shoots it maybe three, four yards from him.
01:39:25.000Exploding drones that are whizzing towards them, and someone on the other end somewhere in the world has got a fucking joystick and trying to get you with it.
01:39:42.000And just imagine when it gets to the next stage where it sends a a uh mosquito in here, a fly and it's looking at your face and it's like, oh, warrant out for your arrest, boom, lands on you, over you go.
01:40:02.000I mean it's gonna we're getting to that point where it's going to identify you somehow, some sort of an identification through your eyes, through blood, through facial recognition, a combination of all three, and then that is gonna allow you to access whatever it is, information online, uh uh credit cards, all the rest of it, of course.
01:40:19.000But what it's really doing is allowing something, whether it's the government or big tech, more control over you because eventually you're gonna go in and okay, to make sure this is you paying for let's say a stake, and now all of a sudden, oh, you've had your allotment of stake because of the environment because of the how many cows and whatever they're they're doing.
01:40:36.000You can't buy this stake or uh your allotment of power for your vehicle, you've used yours up uh for the for the mother gas in your car, all of those things.
01:40:44.000Uh but it's gonna know exactly because you're gonna have to do it to access information online.
01:40:50.000Uh and we're getting closer and closer to that.
01:40:52.000Well, anyone's just submitted to it, they just submitted to digital ID.
01:40:56.000Yeah, these motherfuckers are pushing digital ID on these people.
01:41:00.000And once they do digital ID, they're gonna attach it to a social credit score, they're gonna attach it to a carbon footprint score, and then they'll be able to control your movement and control you entirely, and mo most importantly, they've already arrested twelve thousand people for social media posts.
01:41:24.000There any criticism of immigration, any crimin criticism of grooming gangs and people being raped, any talk about how horrible this is, they come visit you.
01:41:34.000It's like someone's trying to destroy England.
01:41:37.000It's literally like they they've got a concerted effort to destroy England and they're getting away with it.
01:41:51.000If I was gonna destroy a country, I would do it exactly the way they're doing it.
01:41:55.000I'd take away their freedom, take away their ability to protest, take away their guns, which they did in the nineties, and then you start tightening that noose.
01:42:04.000Tighter and tighter, add more restrictions, more this, more that's uh we're getting closer.
01:42:12.000When you arrest 12,000 people for social media posts, you don't just arrest people for social media posts, you change people's ability to to post about things because of fear.
01:42:23.000So you don't even you're you're getting hitting them with like this one guy who complained about there's a famous video where this fucking idiot in a wig.
01:42:30.000He's one of them judges in a they wear the wigs, the white powdered wigs, and he's uh sentencing this guy for twenty months for social media posts that are normal.
01:42:40.000Like normal complaints about mass immigration of illegals from other countries that aren't assimilating and that are that they believe are ruining their society, which there's a real argument for.
01:42:51.000And that's what online discourse is supposed to be about.
01:42:53.000Like having conversations, like I'm v uh voicing my concern for the way society is running right now because of what's happening, and no one's doing anything about it, and no no one's protecting anybody.
01:44:34.000Like she is talking about if you're if you're a criminal, you know, no if ands are but you get kicked out, and if you're here you pay a stiff fine.
01:45:20.000But it's it's the manipulation and it's also manipulation of the populace through through the all these uh all these different different platforms.
01:46:24.000It's like the strangest fucking thing on earth.
01:46:26.000And it's also strange just that this is this weird ritual that they do, this changing of the control.
01:46:34.000And then, you know, the the beginning of the battle for the next four years where they everybody is like slinking away to try their strategy and figure out what to do next and who's our warrior, and now they're trying to figure it out.
01:46:47.000Now they're talking about Pete Pete Buttigieg and Kamala Harris.
01:47:31.000But it's like what the things that he says when he gets confronted with things, we're the high highest this and the highest that like everybody's leaving.
01:47:55.000We uh I went to the one in 2017, so January 2017, so we decided not to go to this last one.
01:48:00.000And uh because we felt like we experienced it last time and there was all the the lemos on fire and the all the chain link fences as we were getting you know going to all this stuff so we decided not to go to this one, but then uh then Tulsi called and asked if I'd go to her uh her swearing in, and so I was like, yeah, of course.
01:48:14.000And uh so we went to that one, and that was really cool.
01:48:16.000That was really cool to be in the room with her when she got sworn in.
01:48:37.000Oh my gosh, it's gotta be like nothing you whoever you think it is from the outside before you step in, it's gotta be a thousand times worse at least when you step into it.
01:48:43.000It's bad and it's very compartmentalized.
01:48:45.000There's a bunch of people that run various offices and they're all working against you and the bureaucracy is so huge.
01:49:05.000I mean, I'd I'd uh I mean I would support her if and there's a path for her, you know, and there's a there is definitely a path for her to uh to get into the the White House.
01:50:52.000Like if you didn't hire someone because they were at a certain sexual orientation, I believe that's illegal.
01:50:57.000Well, you're allowed to choose who you think is gonna work the best, but not somebody.
01:51:01.000And you'd say something else, like, oh, they're not qualified.
01:51:04.000You cannot I mean, I believe well, someone can tell us if we're if I'm wrong, we could probably look it up, but I do not think you can uh do the uh discriminate against someone strictly because of that.
01:51:12.000If they're not qualified, of course, you choose someone else, fine.
01:51:14.000But she goes ahead and says that's the reason that she didn't hire this guy to be her VP.
01:57:46.000But what do you think you could have that conversation, let's say 15 years ago, um that kind of a conversation with Kamala if she was around back then, let's let's fat back up 15 years.
01:57:55.000Or is talking to all these amazing people that you've talked to over the time of the the time this podcast has been in existence has given you this incredible foundation from which to be able to ask like such incredible questions of people and get this stuff out of them and and 15 years ago I would have never thought that it would have mattered at all if I had an opinion on anything.
01:58:14.000It would be like most comics that are doing podcasts today where they're just shooting the shit to their friends and no one cares.
01:58:55.000I think it's being a little humble on that as well, because where else could someone get this three hours uh where they can really listen to maybe two sides uh of uh right?
01:59:04.000But my point is why didn't somebody else do that already?
01:59:06.000Why didn't why didn't mainstream media figure that out?
01:59:09.000Why did you need someone to figure it out in on a laptop in a fucking spare bedroom of their house?
01:59:16.000Like how is that possible the number one media show in the world that's birthed out of a laptop in a spare bedroom?
01:59:37.000How you know, and like they've tried like there's a bunch of people from the New York Times that try the try, but they're all bullshitting.
01:59:43.000They're never free to give their real opinion.
01:59:46.000They're never free to say, you know what, actually this person that I disagree with fundamentally has a really good point about this.
01:59:53.000You know, they have the instead of being ideologically captured, which is like most of them, most of them on the right and most of them on the left.
02:00:01.000Instead of just being able to look at things and go, this is the actual reality that we're living in.
02:00:19.000You tell me why no one else can have these kind of conversations with people and and and break it down this way.
02:00:26.000Well, it's because you're limited by your whole your whole system.
02:00:29.000If you're involved in mainstream media, you're limited by the format, the format sucks.
02:00:33.000You have to break for commercials, you're sponsored by brought to you by Pfizer.
02:00:37.000So you there's certain things you can't talk about, you've got handcuffs on.
02:00:41.000And if you're on the internet and you're ideologically aligned with either the left or the right, well, now you're captured by this box of predetermined opinions that you're supposed to subscribe to.
02:02:02.000That's not moving the needle, probably for anybody in that audience, maybe for one person or something like that.
02:02:06.000And uh, you're not looking at it like that.
02:02:07.000You're doing it because it was this very natural thing for you to do, and it happened to grow into what it is today, which is amazing, which makes it even more powerful that it was natural, and then you weren't this artificial guy over here saying, What's the opportunity?
02:02:18.000Oh, I can get make X dollars by speaking about this topic to this audience.
02:02:22.000Okay, I'm gonna do that and be happy or whatever.
02:02:42.000Like just think about all the stuff that you learned about Vietnam from from writing this book.
02:02:46.000You could just break down moments like Dan Carlin style about Vietnam and just sit there and and talk about it, and people be like, that's fascinating.
02:05:11.000And I don't know what it is, what going forward.
02:05:13.000Like when you think about communication in general, and a long time ago, the telephone used to connect us with our our grandparents, let's say, states away, used to connect us, and now the telephone it disconnects us from that person who's sitting right here next to us on the couch, our spouse or our kids or anything else.
02:05:28.000So it used communication used to connect us now, a communication device, uh, which does obviously a lot more than that is a tracking device, surveillance device, all these other things.
02:05:36.000Um, but it's uh it disconnects us from those that are we're in the same room with.
02:05:42.000And that's why when I look at long term when we're talking about you always remain so hopeful about the future, and I love it, and I try to remain hopeful as well.
02:05:48.000But when you think about it in those types of terms, like this thing's not going away, and what's next?
02:07:13.000But it's change is inevitable, and our change is technologically driven, and it's an integration.
02:07:19.000The the the integration between this incredible technology that's available now to everybody through these AI platforms and then your phone.
02:07:28.000Like we this many people are wearing them Apple watches and they're getting text messages and emails and making phone calls on their watch.
02:07:42.000Using the watch to tell a story about the person or gear, whatever it might be, 1911, 45, the new staccato that tells me something about the person, you know, what that kind of hat they wear, belt they wear, leather setup, Kydex setup, like all those things.
02:07:54.000Solomon shoes versus, you know, whatever, Oakley's versus gators, like all those things tell me something about a person.
02:08:47.000Yeah and if you had to get out of somewhere and you're fucked and you're in the woods, you could pull up the GPS on your watch and you could figure out where the trailhead is.
02:08:57.000You could figure out where the road systems are, and you can get out.
02:09:00.000You can just say, okay, I just have to go due north for six miles, and I'm gonna hit a road.
02:09:05.000Like that's take that could save your life.
02:09:08.000Like if you're in the middle of the woods, you don't know what the fuck is going on, and something happens, and you're like, okay, we have to get out of here.
02:09:29.000So I had one of those near me as I was writing the book as well.
02:09:31.000And uh we put one into the show, Dark Wolf, the guys are on the fire in the first episode, Jared's there as boozer, and Pratt's there, and Taylor's there, and uh Tom Hopper's there on this fire, and that scene I think is one of the best ones, and uh uh Tom gets a gift from from Reese from from Chris Pratt and he opens it and it's that uh that wrist compass from Vietnam.
02:10:11.000But uh but that scene in particular, I think a lot of people who are in Iraq and Afghanistan that spent time around the fire or any any warriors who spent time around a fire or hunters that spent time around a fire will uh identify with that scene, the sharing of stories uh between hunters and warriors, and that was it.
02:10:25.000That was a powerful scene to fill them.
02:12:49.000And that's one of the cool things about um if you stay on the Nye, which is uh there's two four seasons there, and the four seasons that's on the water is incredible.
02:13:52.000And if you see them at night in particular, can you like shine a headlight out to the field, you're like, there's no way this is sustainable.
02:15:39.000Uh yeah, I don't know personally about any of these.
02:15:41.000Adam um told me that um I'm sorry if I told this story yesterday, folks, but Adam uh spearfishes.
02:15:48.000He said that the sharks have learned the sound of the spear gun going off.
02:15:51.000And so somebody gave him flippers that had scales on them because they thought it was cool to give them flippers, and these bull sharks showed up after he shot a fish and they bit his fucking flippers off.
02:19:27.000Um the encounters often involve young orcas going Straight for the rudders.
02:19:31.000Uh scientists have suggested the orcas are likely just bored teenagers with more free time since Atlantic bluefin tuna populations, their favorite prey pre prey in the region recovered, meaning they need to spend less time hunting.
02:19:59.000Undersigned our experts in biology and behavior of cetaceans with several uh specializing in orcas, also known as kill killer whales.
02:20:08.000There's been intense public interest in interactions between orcas as the uh Iberian orcas and marine vessels along the coast of the Iberian Peninsula and in neighboring waters.
02:20:19.000We are concerned that factual errors regarding these interactions are being repeated in the media along with a narrative lacking a basis in science or reality that the animals are aggressively attacking vessels or seeking revenge against mariners.
02:20:45.000I think it's probably people who are oh the whales have shown a wide range of behaviors during the interactions, many of them consistent with playful social behavior.
02:20:52.000Yeah, because they're having a good time sinking these boats.
02:22:48.000So it kept coming in, kept coming in, and she's yelling at it, and I'm just right there, just on the trigger, like ready to go, and it's coming it, coming in, and then it gets close and it stops and it starts doing that, like going back and forth type thing.
02:23:00.000I had most of it on video, and then I didn't want to be the guy that has the phone out and gets eaten, and uh and so I like so I put it down so you can so he gets close and then he I put it down so you can still hear it because it's still running, so I still have the the video you can hear.
02:23:14.000And uh he's he goes like this and he starts to charge and he veers the other way, though.
02:23:18.000He veers off so she goes, she goes, she's yelling at him and she says, shoot, and I start to press the trigger, and she goes, No, no, no, no, like in the same sentence, like there's no 'cause he veered off.
02:24:33.000But uh yeah, that was John Dubin and uh and uh Frank LaCrone, who were also in Pineapple Brothers, but we went up there just to this to us and a guide, two guides that know what they're doing up there.
02:24:41.000And uh did you guys fly in like a push plane?
02:24:44.000Push plane and into camp one night and then get on the horses and then going up into the mountains with the horses and then make camp there, and then push out from that every day.
02:24:56.000Oh sure, I mean everything's so vast, and I love Alaska.
02:24:58.000I was trying my plan was to go to Alaska and Africa, like back to work every other year, and then uh that didn't happen.
02:25:04.000Well, it's the only place in this country at this point where you can hunt grizzlies, and they really need to do something about that in some of these other states where they're talking about opening it up because like they they are not scared of people anymore, and the interactions are getting more and more frequent, and they're not doing anything to curb the populations.
02:25:22.000And that's the thing we're talking about with Lanai, and people that are not involved in hunting and don't understand the conservation aspect of it.
02:25:29.000You you you can't just have an unchecked population of animals, including predators.
02:25:35.000You know, and they you know, all these fucking people are voting with their heart instead of like letting wildlife biologists say, no, no, this is actually bad for the animals for the overall population of them.
02:25:49.000And it's also gonna be bad for people and animals and people collide with a lot of mountain lines in California.
02:26:04.000Yeah, well, there's too many interactions.
02:26:06.000Yeah, I got a big one a couple years ago.
02:26:07.000One came on our neighbor's game cam, huge one came through, which is good because well fed.
02:26:13.000And uh it's the one that they get skinny and you know, getting a little dicey.
02:26:16.000Huge one came through right around Thanksgiving when all the families in town and we're up in the mountains right there, pretty remote, and and everybody's there, the kids are there, so I'm kinda like, oh man.
02:26:24.000And I'm sure they've seen me a ton of times and I've never seen never seen that.
02:26:54.000But I want to get some game camps on them to see what the interaction is because the moose come through, the elk come through, the mule deer come through, and I want to see those interactions.
02:27:01.000There are about two hundred turkeys, it seems probably like more like a hundred or fifty, but I'm but a lot come through every day.
02:31:02.000So trying to get a little better with the security type things.
02:31:06.000Yeah, there's something about the woods and the mountains alone when you're by yourself that you worry about people coming to visit you anyway.
02:31:13.000You worry about people just showing up.
02:32:46.000And this one was uh essentially it's a espionage thriller set in uh in Saigon, but set in in Southeast Asia uh more specifically.
02:32:53.000And no one's really done that since Quiet American Graham Green, Tears of Autumn, uh and Graham Green was 1955, and uh Tears of Autumn was 1974, and and uh Jean Le Corre was the honorable school boy in 1977, So it's been a uh it's been a while.