In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, the comedian and podcaster joins us to discuss his new movie, "The Devil Next Door" directed by James Gray. The movie is based on the true story of a Nazi war criminal who went on trial for the crimes he committed during World War II.
00:00:41.000Real footage of the one of the reasons that inspired Jamie to go ahead, that he was given access to that footage, some of which has never been seen since 1946.
00:00:54.000It's a very interesting way that he makes the subject matter accessible because it's such a dry topic from the outside, right?
00:01:05.000Here's yet another courtroom drama, procedural or whatever.
00:01:08.000So I can imagine that people would see that and go, well, it's, you know, might not be an exciting watch or something.
00:01:16.000But he sort of puts the audience in this position where he allows them to start to be amused by some of the things that are going on and the interpersonal relationships.
00:01:26.000And, you know, when the commandant of the prison has to call up his two top mental health experts and dress them down for getting into a fistfight, things like that.
00:01:43.000And then he gets you into the courtroom and he locks the door.
00:01:47.000And he goes, now you're going to see what we're talking about.
00:01:51.000So I think it's a very interesting film device to disarm people before he starts giving them the real juice, you know?
00:02:00.000Yeah, it's also a fascinating psychological tape from the psychiatrist, from Kelly's perspective, you know, because the way he's describing all human beings, that all human beings are capable of these horrific acts.
00:02:19.000And that's the thing that was a very unpopular take at the time, actually led to his removal from the process because he wasn't fulfilling what the War Department wanted him to say, which is, you know, all Nazis are crazy, you know, ruled by a madman.
00:02:42.000In sitting down talking to the 22 major Nazi sort of names that he was assigned to post-war, he realized that every single one of these people was, you know, as normal.
00:02:58.000Well, there was a couple that were pretty out there.
00:03:02.000But, you know, for the most part, he was dealing with rational men.
00:03:45.000Just how you take away this person's rights, that person's personal power, and slowly, you know, you get to a point where the average person then turns around and goes, how did we get to here?
00:03:58.000Yeah, I thought it was, I thought it was about something else.
00:04:01.000You know, there's a smoke screen going up, and I thought we were doing that.
00:04:04.000And as it turns out, it's very different.
00:04:08.000Yeah, that's the one of the scariest aspects of human beings is our ability to dehumanize others, to turn others into something less than us.
00:04:19.000Non-human, an other humans, with families, with mothers, and fathers and children.
00:04:25.000It's one of the most dangerous things, and I see it going on everywhere at the moment, that we're trying to say that you're either, you know, and for want of a better team name, that you're either red or that you're blue.
00:06:00.000By and large, Americans grow up looking in.
00:06:04.000The principal sports are only played by American teams, American football, in some instances, baseball, but they're not the types of sports that we play where the pinnacle of that sport is international competition.
00:06:50.000And anybody who loves baseball, generally, I've found baseball lovers are all about the minutiae.
00:06:56.000They're all about the stats and what those stats mean.
00:06:59.000You know, there might be a certain score on the board, but, you know, and their team might be getting beaten, but they see in the stats that there's a certain dominance in an area.
00:07:08.000And so they still have a hope that the outcome of the game may come their way.
00:07:13.000And cricket fans are the same as that.
00:07:17.000So the fact that the two never seem to meet is odd to me.
00:09:12.000My other cousin Jeffrey was also a captain of New Zealand.
00:09:15.000So I kind of grew up in a cricketing family and it was one of the pathways for me that was, you know, to potentially play cricket.
00:09:23.000But when you've got two of your cousins who are as good as they were, it's a very crowded room.
00:09:28.000So how am I going to make any kind of statement here when one of them, Martin, at his peak, he was called by Sports Illustrated, I believe, the Michael Jordan of World Cricket.
00:10:58.000Yeah. I mean, you know, there's cables and companies and stuff have got involved now, but it used to be national network.
00:11:04.000And when cricket season was on, I mean, you know, back in the day, people would come from overseas and into Australia this summer and ask the question, is there anything else on television except sport?
00:11:24.000Soccer in America, the reason why it's very hard to sell is not just that a lot of people don't play it, but it says there's no commercial breaks.
00:12:43.000But there's another version of rugby called rugby league, which was played in the north of England.
00:12:48.000And that has a defined period of offence and defence.
00:12:51.000And I think that's where American football comes from.
00:12:54.000I actually own a team in Australia in the NRL, the National Rugby League, the South Sydney Rabbitos, the oldest team in the game, 1908, we were formed.
00:13:14.000My girlfriend at the moment, actually, Brittany, was one of the reasons why I really started being attracted to her because she understood the game straight away.
00:13:23.000Then I find out that when she was younger, she was a cheerleader for the New Orleans Saints while she was studying electrical engineering.
00:13:34.000So, yeah, rugby league is a very easy game for Americans to follow.
00:13:40.000Now, how it's refereed becomes frustrating for an American audience because there's so much room for interpretation, referee to referee, game to game, situation to situation.
00:13:54.000I think one of the greatest things about American football from the outside or from an objective point of view, it seems that every single thing that the NFL try to do is based on an across-the-board fairness for everyone.
00:14:09.000So those conversations between the referees and what have you seem to be everybody's on the same page.
00:14:17.000And sometimes when you're watching rugby league, something that you saw somebody else get sent from the field for the week before, and now nothing happens this week.
00:14:28.000But it's the same kind of hit or whatever.
00:14:30.000It's like, well, you know, so I've had a few Americans get quite frustrated.
00:14:34.000No, I think that's, yeah, I think the game moves very fast.
00:15:10.000I think what we have, as opposed to corruption, is natural bias because guys come out of the game.
00:15:17.000So there's 17 clubs in the NRL at the moment.
00:15:21.000And guys who are in positions like referees or video refs or whatever, they have a club.
00:15:26.000They grew up associated to one particular geographic area and that's their club.
00:15:31.000So it's very difficult for anyone to truly objectively see their own natural bias.
00:15:40.000But also, there's got to be some corruption if there's gambling.
00:15:44.000If it's so subjective that you can make calls that you would, that didn't, that someone got in trouble a week before, and then this week nothing, like that kind of subjectivity where it's up to the referee to make a decision.
00:15:55.000If I was a corrupt person, a gambler, especially if I was a mobster, I would reach out to that referee and say, you know, it's within our best interests to work together on this.
00:17:09.000I just saw on the news today that the one player who's been tossed around, he had a big IRS debt, and all of this sort of started around the same time, too.
00:17:28.000People knew about this a year or two ago on Instagram.
00:17:31.000They're like, I was at a fucking rigged game, and I know the people involved and know that I should not have, like, I'm not going there and losing my money.
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00:19:36.000It was the first time I was in America, actually.
00:19:39.000And I'd had all these intense meetings and what have you, and I had a decision to make.
00:19:43.000I had 10 different people wanting to be my agent.
00:19:46.000So I rented a car and I went for a drive and I went up to San Francisco along the coast and then I turned inland thinking, you know, well, I've heard of Reno, so I'll go there, right?
00:20:00.000So I went to Reno, Nevada, and I had X amount of money, right?
00:20:05.000It was a very, I wasn't, you know, I was doing well in my career, but I didn't have a lot of cash.
00:20:12.000So I had a couple of hundred dollars in my pocket, that's all, you know.
00:20:14.000So I went and had a beer and I started playing blackjack on a $5 table and it was a single deck.
00:20:22.000This is how long ago this was, 92 or something, right?
00:21:02.000But I was like, okay, I've got to sober up here.
00:21:05.000So I go back to the place I started, back to that same $5 table.
00:21:09.000And I just very carefully, when I got to like $190, which I knew was going to be enough to get me back with petrol and food and all that stuff, I stopped.
00:21:17.000I go out into the car park of this hotel.
00:21:20.000It's like 11 midnight, something like that.
00:23:50.000That you could go back to the table in one area.
00:23:54.000Well, that's a good area to have it, isn't it?
00:23:56.000But that's how desperate the situation was.
00:23:59.000It's like I'm standing there in Reno realizing I can't even get back to L.A. I've got a real car.
00:24:06.000So I just took it really, really slowly.
00:24:08.000And I do this thing if I'm playing in a situation like that, because occasionally I will go and play blackjack at a casino if I'm in a group of people.
00:24:22.000Because if you're all disciplined and if you hold every seat on a table, you can turn the tide against the house very easily.
00:25:47.000The jet's comped, the golf's comped, the Lanai's comp, the food's comped, and then we go and play blackjack together.
00:25:54.000Tom explains what the team's going to do, and we take $25,000 or more off the table, go back to the airport, get on the comp jet, fly back to LA.
00:26:23.000But that sort of like, that was one of the early experiences where, okay, so you can have fun with these sort of games as long as you don't take them too seriously.
00:26:31.000My current girlfriend is a massive poker player.
00:26:33.000She loves it and she's really quite good at it.
00:26:36.000She's played in a couple of female-only tournaments and things like that, you know.
00:26:41.000So I watch them play, but I don't get involved.
00:28:41.000But I think Clapton was living in New York or London or somewhere, and he had a party at his house because he just had that record come out and it would go on number one.
00:28:55.000And he had it stuck on his fridge with a magnet, you know, like the charts with a circle around it.
00:29:01.000You know, I shot the sheriff, number one, Eric Clapton.
00:31:36.000But there's people that were coming across from other organizations that I was a giant fan of, and the bookmakers were woefully uneducated about, especially foreign fighters.
00:31:46.000And there's a thing, like if you are gambling on MMA and you don't know how to fight, you're just guessing.
00:31:53.000You don't really, we're all just guessing when two guys get into the cage together, but you're really guessing.
00:31:59.000Like, you really don't, you can't recognize like how fast a person is.
00:32:04.000You can't recognize how good they are at countering.
00:32:07.000You just know stats and you know, but you don't know how to do it.
00:32:11.000And if you don't know how to do it, you can't really see it.
00:32:35.000But the fucking people that I have friends, like good friends that are just hooked.
00:32:42.000And when they start talking about like fights that they're gambling on or they put so much money on this and money on that, I'm like, oh my God.
00:32:50.000I know guys that put millions of dollars on a fight.
00:33:31.000You know, I had an experience probably a year or two ago, and I see my two boys are talking to a mate of theirs, and they've all got their phones out.
00:33:42.000And I realized they were checking up on their bets.
00:33:47.000You know, so I had to have a big conversation with my boys and say, look, every single dollar that you have comes out of my pocket.
00:33:55.000And if I give you a dollar, that's not a dollar to gamble with.
00:33:58.000I had to have a very serious conversation with them about it.
00:34:01.000It's like, I don't care if you think it's fun.
00:34:03.000You've got to actually see it for what it is.
00:34:05.000Because what's $5 or $10 now is easily going to turn into $400 or $500 in a minute.
00:34:10.000$1,000, sooner or later, you will allow yourself to think that this thing is beyond fun and it's a way for you to earn back your losses or whatever.
00:34:22.000So I just had to have a chat with them and they were probably looking at me going, how old is our father that he doesn't understand that everybody does this?
00:34:32.000But I just had to let them know from my point of view, I didn't appreciate them taking my hard-earned dollars and wasting them.
00:34:40.000But I also like that it exists because I want the ability.
00:34:44.000Like if I wasn't working for the UFC and I could go to the fights and gamble on the fights, I would definitely do it because it's a knowledge thing.
00:34:52.000This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats.
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00:34:57.000The game somehow makes everyone really hungry.
00:35:00.000Quarterback scrambles, clearly a sign it's time for breakfast burritos.
00:35:08.000And wing formations, well, those can only mean buffalo wings, as if they're ever not in play.
00:35:15.000Even the goalposts start looking suspiciously like french fries.
00:35:18.000It's almost like football is sending the message to eat more food.
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00:37:37.000And I think gambling freedom, like the ability to decide that you want to take a risk with something, that should be available.
00:37:44.000But we should educate people as to like what is actually going on in your mind that's allowing you to get captured by this thing.
00:37:52.000And now you're chasing bad money and you're in a downward spiral.
00:37:56.000Management, like understanding, okay, this is a thrill, but this thrill could take over your whole life if you are maybe genetically susceptible, psychologically susceptible.
00:38:08.000Like understand what it is, but I don't think we should take away cars that can go over 60 miles an hour because some people crash their cars and die.
00:38:28.000Like, I could see if I came from a family that was torn apart by gambling, you'd go, you know, you don't understand, my dad lost our house.
00:38:37.000Like, okay, but that was a bad decision.
00:38:41.000You know, your dad could have died drinking and driving and smashed into a tree.
00:39:02.000I mean, it's certainly not a black or white issue to me.
00:39:06.000There's a lot of gray area involved in it.
00:39:08.000And I know there's a lot of people that push back on the idea of whether these gambling apps and all these different things should be legal.
00:39:16.000It's the normalization process that bothers me the most.
00:39:21.000That it's part of the new service with the apps.
00:39:25.000But it's just put in front of you, whether you're interested in it or not.
00:39:28.000You know, this team is playing that team, and here's the odds.
00:39:34.000I just don't, I don't think it's healthy to have that as much of, you know, those stats as much a part of the actual news report as who's playing and what's on the line.
00:39:49.000The thing about it, though, is it does lead you to have debate about, like, here's a perfect example.
00:39:57.000Canelo Alvarez versus Terrence Crawford.
00:40:01.000Terrence Crawford was going up two weight classes.
00:40:04.000In my mind, though, he's so skillful, I gave him a chance.
00:40:08.000I was like, I favor him to win, but I believe he was the underdog.
00:40:13.000Find out what the odds were for the Canelo Alvarez-Terrence Crawford fight.
00:40:17.000I believe he was the underdog, even though he was an undefeated multi-division world champion, like one of the greatest of all time for sure.
00:40:25.000But he was jumping up from the 154-pound weight class where he just won the belt.
00:40:29.000He was the 147-pound weight class all the way up to 168.
00:41:55.000And they'll go from TikTok to Instagram to X to, you know, they'll check this and then they'll check that and they'll check their Snapchat and they'll check their gambling app.
00:42:04.000And then it's like you're just addicted to this goddamn phone.
00:42:08.000So something on your phone that's also addicting.
00:42:11.000It's like addiction on top of addiction because you're already getting your little dopamine rush just by looking at your phone.
00:42:17.000But then if you're also getting a gambling rush on top of that, yeah, we got to educate people.
00:42:23.000But I think we've got to educate people on social media addiction, which I think a giant percentage of our population is completely addicted to social media.
00:43:29.000You know, we finished Nuremberg last year, and then I went on that big tour, which is when I was here when I came to see you the first time.
00:43:36.000But this year, since between December and August, I made five movies.
00:48:27.000And so now we've got, you know, we've got the third stage of our connection.
00:48:32.000And when we get to do it, it's going to be great.
00:48:36.000But I know this sounds really weird because I love Henry and the last thing I'd want is for him to be under any pressure or injured or whatever.
00:49:19.000Set up and collapsed three different times before we actually made it because there's a lot of variables in independent film.
00:49:27.000So a bunch of these things that I did, I agreed to do two years ago and that never got together.
00:49:33.000And then suddenly they all just started landing one after the other.
00:49:37.000So everybody's got to start working like it's air traffic control.
00:49:40.000And I'm like literally having a few days between sets flying from one place to the other.
00:49:46.000And now it's, you know, what I always describe it as like going to a new school.
00:49:50.000Now you're going to meet, you know, hundreds of new people and all of the different things that you've got to answer in terms of your costume and your makeup and blah, blah, blah.
00:50:23.000It was going to be a UFC thing, but we ended up doing a deal with one championship.
00:50:28.000So it's set in Australia and Thailand.
00:50:31.000And it's doing some little private screenings in Los Angeles at the moment and getting a lot of really positive reactions.
00:50:37.000The kid that's the, no, he's not a kid, but the lead role in that, Daniel McPherson, has done an extremely good job by the sounds of things.
00:51:06.000But I wrote the character that I play specifically to not be the character you think it's going to be, to not be Burgess Meredith.
00:51:13.000You think this guy's going to be, you know, the old coach who sort of like, you know, comes back out of retirement and everything.
00:51:21.000I know enough people in the boxing world to know that once an old bloke makes a decision about you being a shithead, he's not going to change his mind.
00:52:08.000That's also, I think they've got like six or seven different offers at the moment from different distribution companies because everybody's digging it and they're looking at it going, that would be an hilarious movie to follow up, Nuremberg.
00:52:22.000So then after that, I go back to Budapest and I make a thing with a young British director, Armo Sante, called Billion Dollar Spy, with a young English actor called Harry Lorty, who is the future of British cinema.
00:52:39.000He's a very intelligent, classy actor.
00:52:43.000And that one I play a Russian selling state secrets to the Americans, a Russian scientist.
00:52:48.000And then after I did Billion Dollar Spy, I went to Montreal and made a thing called Unibomb, where I play a Harvard professor, the man who taught Ted Kaczynski at Harvard, who put him into this series of tests and things that he was doing.
00:53:10.000And some people say that he very, very much affected Kaczynski's brain.
00:53:18.000You know, he was a part of the Harvard LSD studies.
00:53:25.000He was there at the time that Leary also started working at Harvard.
00:53:29.000But the study that my character was doing is more based on sort of like intellectual confrontation and like stripping people of their self-belief and stuff.
00:53:44.000So there are people who think that it was the character I play's intellectual aggression towards Kaczynski that turned Kaczynski the way he turns.
00:56:39.000You have to sort of put yourself in a situation where you're going deep into the bush so you're getting that kind of oxygen.
00:56:45.000You just have to really give yourself over to it, you know, and spend your days just checking if the cows are okay, having a look, you know, if the new trough system is working away, just getting your sort of hands a little bit dirty and forgetting all the other stuff.
00:57:16.000I always, like, I look back at my 30-year-old self who made the decision to take the little bit of money that I'd earned at that point, 31, 32 I was, and buy 100 acres in the bush because somehow I knew I would need that place.
00:57:33.000So it's like, you know, I could have bought an apartment in the city, you know, but I didn't.
00:57:38.000I bought 100 acres of basically blank bush.
00:57:41.000No fences, and the fact that it's been in my life, January 20th, 1996, I paid for that first hundred acres.
00:57:53.000So that's before LA Confidential, it was before I even shoot LA Confidential.
00:59:17.000But that's and that's the brilliant famous Russell Crow between people who are not in the business's understanding of what it really takes and the realities that you deal with.
00:59:31.000I'm not whinging about the job at all, but I am just pointing out that I went a little bit too hard and I burnt my brain and I need a bit of a break.
00:59:41.000Well, if Nuremberg is an indication or if it's an example of what you did, if it's on par with the rest of them, it's going to be an awesome run because Nuremberg is great.
01:00:41.000Yeah, well, just think about that because, you know, in my lifetime, you know, when I was a little boy and I'm watching the news at night with my parents, there's Vietnam footage.
01:00:54.000You know, I see the Anzac Day, which is Australia New Zealand version of Memorial Day.
01:00:59.000I see those marches every year, the old soldiers getting together.
01:03:36.000You know, to respect the passing of these young people who died in battle, but to also remind ourselves of how pointless that whole thing was, how pointless the First World War was, how pointless the Second World War was.
01:03:53.000And the people that started the war, the people who benefit from the war, are not the ones generally standing at the graveside mourning their dead because they will protect themselves.
01:04:03.000Their children don't have to go to war.
01:04:06.000Their children are not going to get conscripted.
01:04:08.000So it's like, you know, every time this stuff comes up and we now have almost constantly the words of war being spoken as if it's just sort of an offhand thing that we can should attack these people, invade these people, do this.
01:04:23.000Like this goes absolutely nowhere good.
01:04:28.000And we were talking earlier about the technology we can hold in our hands.
01:05:04.000It's hard to imagine if you were living in the past, if you could come up with the circumstances that we live under today, like you just described, a device in your pocket that provides you with all the information you could ever want.
01:05:16.000We would say, oh, well, that would be the solution to most of what ails us.
01:05:20.000You'd think once we have that available, it'll all sort itself out.
01:05:24.000We'll see each other clearly and understand, you know, celebrate our differences.
01:05:28.000That there's more that connects us than divides us, all of those things.
01:05:46.000We just let people actually take something.
01:05:48.000I remember when I started on Twitter, I thought it was the stupidest thing I've ever heard of.
01:05:53.000But when I started, which was about 2009, 2010, and suddenly from a couple of decades of having who I was described by others and pushed across to people, this breath of fresh air where I could just express myself and people would know exactly what my real opinion on something was and how I felt about something, it was fantastic.
01:06:25.000As soon as individuals started using their power to say, you know what, I had an experience with this company or that company and it wasn't very good.
01:06:35.000And those companies were like, man, we didn't spend millions of dollars a year on advertising just for this arsehole to tell the truth about how shit we are.
01:06:44.000So they had to turn it around somehow.
01:07:06.000It's kind of amazing that there's no laws because it's essentially, I mean, you could propagate through bots a complete and total lie and it catches traction, makes its way through, and there's zero consequences.
01:07:18.000Yeah, and then people get upset about it, and they're fighting over the family dinner table based on pure misinformation.
01:07:26.000And I think a lot of it, you know, we can't trace who's doing it.
01:07:47.000Like, they busted China, was using ChatGPT to run a bunch of accounts.
01:07:53.000I don't know how many accounts, but a huge amount of accounts.
01:07:56.000And they were all sorts of stuff that people are fighting about in America, like immigration, closing down USAID, those kind of things.
01:08:06.000And they were just involved with these chat bots that they were running.
01:08:12.000And these things would argue specific points and get everybody inflamed and just start wars and call everybody fucking.
01:08:20.000There was a moment a little while ago where there just seemed to be all social media was just flooded with violent images, flooded with people fighting, people getting knocked out by a king hit in a bar or whatever.
01:08:36.000And it was like, where is this coming from?
01:08:39.000It's just Instagram is loaded with it.
01:08:42.000I see more violence on Instagram, more accidents, more people falling off balconies, more people climbing trees and falling.
01:10:48.000It was just him on stage talking about a company that he and I and Ed Sheeran got involved in.
01:10:57.000I was shooting the Pope's Exorcist in Ireland, right?
01:11:01.000And I got told this story About this lady, Laura Bonner, whose grandfather was an Irish potato farmer, right?
01:11:13.000And wondering what he should do with his leftover potatoes, you know, the unsightly shaped ones that nobody wants in the supermarket.
01:11:21.000And he came up with the idea of making this Irish sort of moonshine called Pochin.
01:11:28.000So every Friday, his relatives and his friends and everything would rock around to Phil's house and they'd bring their old medicine bottles and whatever and just fill up from the still.
01:13:30.000It's like that's not the sort of whiskey where everybody ends up crying in a corner remembering the things that they did wrong in their lives.
01:13:37.000It's the sort of whiskey that'll keep you laughing all night.
01:13:40.000So that's why I call it a cowboy whiskey because you can sit with it with your mates all night and have a laugh.
01:13:45.000What do you think is more addictive, alcohol or gambling?
01:15:26.000That everybody can have this drug is fully available.
01:15:28.000And like I say, we never count the social costs.
01:15:31.000We don't count, you know, I mean, this is this would be true for pretty much a lot of countries that have a focus on sport.
01:15:40.000But, you know, three to five of the worst nights of any given year in Australia in terms of domestic violence are 100% connected to a sporting event.
01:16:40.000Like, why don't we have education on the proper way to use these things where you don't get in trouble?
01:16:48.000You know, like at least most people, I would imagine most kids are not going to listen anyway, but more will than would if you didn't talk about it at all.
01:19:10.000It's also one of the most important things in my life is energy.
01:19:14.000Like, how much energy do I have to do things?
01:19:16.000Like, it's not just about doing things, it's about doing them with focus and enthusiasm.
01:19:21.000And when you don't have energy, it's very difficult to muster up that enthusiasm.
01:19:26.000Well, I hate that feeling that the follow that, you know, I've had a great time the night before, but the following day, nothing gets done because I had fun the night before.
01:19:59.000I love that old Bill Hicks routine where he asks the question: you know, the last time you're in a social situation, it would be a private party, a concert, a sporting event, and people started fighting.
01:20:18.000It's like, yeah, I don't get why people can be so aggressively negative towards marijuana, yet, you know, half a dozen, dozen drinks for them socially is a, of course.
01:21:08.000Take Thailand, for example, a country that's had hundreds of years of cultural marijuana use.
01:21:14.000But in order to join the United Nations, they had to accept an American attitude towards drug laws.
01:21:19.000Just recently, they've taken those drug laws away, and now they're in a bit of panic because they didn't plan it very well.
01:21:29.000Because, like, you know, reality break is, I think, you know, California did it through Arnold Schwarzenegger properly, knowing exactly how you're going to tax and where the money's going to when you do tax for the consumption.
01:21:43.000And so I think, you know, 140 or something or more shops sprung up overnight in Bangkok.
01:21:50.000And they're like, oh, gee, that went quicker than we thought it was going to go.
01:21:53.000But I think it's actually great for Thailand.
01:21:57.000It's a, you know, a drug that particularly suits the groove of that country, you know?
01:22:23.000That makes sense the United States has pushed that on everybody else.
01:22:27.000In Texas, there's a lot of push from the alcohol lobby to try to make marijuana even more illegal.
01:22:34.000Yeah, because people don't necessarily have to drink that much.
01:22:37.000Yeah, that's what they're worried about.
01:22:39.000They're worried about people talking about alcohol.
01:22:41.000It's a stupid, I mean, the fact that it works is crazy that people are still with like zero deaths ever, that they're still pushing to take this one drug away when you've got one drug that everybody uses.
01:24:01.000Like it's not like trees that take years and years to grow before you can chop them down and make paper out of them.
01:24:06.000And so then they started printing these stories about Mexicans and blacks that are raping white women because they're on this new drug called marijuana.
01:25:13.000You know, according to folkloric tales, he did everything he could to prevent Orson Welles from becoming the filmmaker that he should have become.
01:26:56.000And so, I mean, he was a wonderkind, right?
01:26:59.000Was this guy that like everybody thought was like a once-in-a-lifetime talent and he snuffed out.
01:27:06.000And back then, you have to consider: if you're William Randolph Hearst, you have Hearst publications, you're essentially in control of whatever narrative you want to push forth, and no one's going to get in your way.
01:27:18.000So, all you'd have to do is make some phone calls, and that guy, fuck him, he doesn't work again.
01:28:08.000It's nuts, but that's the one beautiful thing about today is that independent media takes up the slack and often gets more views than main, you know, air quote, mainstream corporate media.
01:28:20.000And so now corporate media is forced to report on things eventually.
01:28:25.000Like the New York Times is forced to report on certain things that are inconvenient eventually, where they would have just liked to have ignored it.
01:28:33.000But it gets so big in the zeitgeist that it has to become something that's discussed.
01:28:37.000And that's fascinating because it's like dragging them into the reality that the internet lives in, which is a reality of a free exchange of information.
01:28:46.000The whole horizon of television is just so dramatically different now.
01:28:54.000You know, I get to a hotel and I'll scroll through 160 available channels.
01:29:39.000You know, the last time I remember that being a thing is maybe in high school, where my mum and dad, my mum particularly, would like to watch Dallas.
01:29:49.000So we would all get together and watch Dallas at 8 o'clock or whatever on a Tuesday or whatever.
01:29:55.000And that just doesn't just hasn't happened in my life at all anymore.
01:30:00.000The last time it happened, I think, for me, was the Sopranos on HBO.
01:30:05.000Because it was on, I believe it was on Sunday nights.
01:30:07.000And everybody knew what time it was on.
01:30:10.000And you go home and I had a TiVo back then.
01:32:11.000Like the fact that he could pull, that he had the depth to pull off that, where he's doing horrible things to people and you're rooting for him.
01:32:29.000Oh, he's the funniest guy that's ever lived.
01:32:31.000I heard him tell that story one time about the same week that Cinderella Man came out, I went to the premiere of Longashard.
01:32:40.000Because, you know, Chris Rock was in that and stuff.
01:32:42.000And there's a few people in that cast who I really like.
01:32:46.000And so I went to the movie and I just remember him telling a story about the lights come up and he didn't realize he was sitting next to me or whatever.
01:32:57.000I think it'd be a very dangerous room for me and Joey Diaz to be in.
01:34:37.000I've got the farm to run, you know, cows to look after and all that sort of stuff.
01:34:41.000So, but a couple of years ago, he just put it in my mind, like, let's just say, we'll take these dates and I'll meet you somewhere, you know?
01:34:51.000So the first time we did it, we met up in Puglia in southern Italy.
01:34:56.000And earlier this year we met up in Marbea.
01:35:00.000But I've already booked a vacation for next year.
01:35:05.000But it's like that thing of going somewhere which isn't home and isn't work, having no agenda, sort of hanging out by the pool, reading a book, right, from beginning to end.
01:35:46.000But see, I didn't grow up in that sort of family.
01:35:48.000We didn't have the money for that sort of thing.
01:35:49.000We went on one big family holiday in 1970 where we all piled into my dad's station wagon and we drove from Sydney up to northern Queensland.
01:35:59.000But a cyclone came through on the way.
01:36:02.000So we had like four days of sunshine and 26 days of rain.
01:36:06.000So living in a caravan, playing Monopoly.
01:36:10.000So it's not like I look back, oh, I remember the great vacations of my childhood.
01:36:14.000So it was like, you know, my dad used to run pubs.
01:36:37.000It's a good time for me to learn about it now.
01:36:41.000Well, don't you think like as a person who does anything creative, you have to have a bunch of different kinds of experiences to draw from.
01:36:50.000And if you just stay in the same environment all the time, it's probably generally not good for you.
01:37:49.000Well, the thing is, it's such a busy place.
01:37:51.000And the studios there, the studios would rather have a television show that's going to be there for a decade than a movie that's in and out in four months.
01:38:26.000Australia has a big history, for example, of making films.
01:38:29.000Technically, arguably the first full-length feature film, the true history of the Ned Kelly gang might have been called that was like 1906, 1908, something like that.
01:38:43.000And, you know, all the way through, but it takes to about the 70s or whatever, then you have this sort of new generation of Australian filmmakers who are actually making stories that reflect the current culture.
01:38:55.000And I think that's sort of happening worldwide as well.
01:40:08.000When you start going through it, you sort of do realize there's been, you know, probably a much larger percentage than you would expect given the population of the country in terms of people in film, whether it's directors of photography or directors themselves or actors.
01:42:31.000And they realized, she realized that between her and this other girl that looks after the puppy women not there, they'd got their dates mixed up.
01:42:39.000And so it wasn't actually covered for flea and tick, you know, stuff in its bloodstream.
01:43:07.000There's one that's going on in America now called the, well, what it gives, it's a lone star tick is what gives you this bite and produces something called alpha gal.
01:43:22.000And it makes you allergic to red meat.
01:43:54.000There's no deer farms around where I am, which is north of Sydney by 600 Ks.
01:44:01.000But recently, a couple of the guys that work for me on the farm said they've seen deer going through the bush at the back of my block.
01:44:09.000So that means that there's some just animals that have escaped and they're most likely to have been in the southern highlands, which is south of Sydney.
01:44:17.000And somehow they've got themselves all the way up to where I am.
01:44:40.000In America, they have a problem with that too, deer farms and this disease called chronic wasting disease.
01:44:46.000And it's spread throughout large swaths of America have a giant issue with this, where deer herds get infected.
01:44:54.000My friend Doug Duran, he has a farm out in Wisconsin, and they've had a significant problem with it to the point where they've started issuing more tags and thinning the herd.
01:45:05.000They're trying to kill more deer to try to lessen this spread of this stuff because chronic wasting disease, it's a prion disease.
01:46:57.000And, you know, they sent me this group of boxes, Olympic guys, and stuff like that.
01:47:02.000And every single one of them can smash the piss out of me in the ring.
01:47:05.000So I've got to smash the piss out of them in other areas.
01:47:07.000So I train them until they drop, you know, getting them on bicycles and taking them to the bush, you know, things like that, just to sort of like keep the balance.
01:47:14.000You know, and this one particular day, and I had it in my mind that I was just going to absolutely smash them.
01:47:20.000I was going to get into this situation because this is one road, you know, and I was just going to get so far in front of them, psychologically damage them, you know.
01:47:31.000How devious had a conversation with my mum, and she was like, oh, darling, you know, you know, I'd really love to have a cat.
01:47:38.000And I'm like, Mum, we lived in this privileged situation.
01:47:41.000We've got sulfur-crested cockatoos, rosellas, king parrots, all these beautiful birds.
01:47:48.000And the worst thing that we could do for them is put a cat into that.
01:48:04.000I'm seeing these boys struggling quite some distance, probably about a kilometer and a half away from me, you know.
01:48:10.000And I'm going, I'll just have a little rest here.
01:48:16.000And I just hear this little noise, and I'm like, what the hell is that?
01:48:19.000So I just take three or four steps off the road.
01:48:22.000You know, probably about seven or eight minutes ago, I was coming around this corner and a car was there on the road, which is kind of unusual for the state forest in that particular area, right?
01:48:32.000So I take these three or four steps in, and there's a little kitten sitting in the bush.
01:50:18.000We always blame the British for this because it's usually a naturalist, a British naturalist or scientist that comes up with the concept.
01:50:25.000And so they look through all the aisles.
01:50:27.000I can't remember where they found it from, but they found this toad who seemed to have this appetite for this particular insect and they would feed it.
01:51:19.000So if a dog gets interested and the toad gets afraid, the dog can sort of like sniff or lick its head, then get poisoned, and that's the end of your dog, you know.
01:51:28.000But there was a period of time there where there's actually a documentary from the 90s called Cane Toads.
01:51:35.000And it sort of just points out how crazy people were getting with it.
01:51:38.000You know, people in small country towns walking from their house to the pub, taking a cricket bat and just smacking the cane toads off the road as they went.
01:51:47.000You know, it's like all these people becoming like, you know, crazed with the idea of getting rid of the cane toad population, but it hasn't affected them.
01:57:30.000So in 96, I used to be able to walk through certain areas of my property just under tall trees with subtropical ferns and vines on the ground.
01:57:40.000Now there's many areas of my property that are just impossible.
01:57:45.000You cannot get through it anymore because it's choked out with introduced weeds.
01:57:49.000What is that crazy plant down south that we talked about once that has overrun some of these forests?
01:57:55.000It's pretty beautiful, but it's also very creepy to see what it's done, just like taking over all the trees.
01:58:01.000All the trees, anything on the ground just covered with styria.
01:59:31.000So where did they relocate them to them?
01:59:33.000They relocated them to a place with cows.
01:59:36.000And of course these wolves start killing cows again.
01:59:38.000Haven't they shown though in one of the national parks here that by supporting the apex predator, a whole bunch of other problems get solved?
01:59:47.000That's the Yellowstone reintroduction.
01:59:51.000And so that's called how wolves changed rivers, right?
01:59:55.000There's a lot of people that push back against that.
02:00:00.000I think you definitely need predators because there was at one point in time an overpopulation of elk in Montana to the point where they were having winter seasons, winter rifle seasons, where they would issue a lot of tags.
02:00:14.000So in the winter, they're stuck in deep snow and you just go pick them off.
02:00:18.000And it was because they had so many that it was actually detrimental to the herd itself, to the health of the herd itself.
02:02:01.000That can lead to disease and famine and all kinds of things.
02:02:03.000And you don't have a good, stable ecosystem with both predators and prey.
02:02:10.000You get a situation like you have in New Zealand where they have to gun down stags sometimes.
02:02:14.000They have to helicopter stags because they just get overpopulated.
02:02:18.000You know, New Zealand is one of those places where all these game animals from Europe were introduced specifically to set up New Zealand as a beautiful hunting refuge.
02:03:02.000You know, obviously a horse was really important in Australia when it was being opened up and first colonised and populated and what have you.
02:03:11.000And then, you know, First World War, we still had light horse cavalry and what have you.
02:03:16.000So in certain areas, but mainly in the area where the mountains are in Australia, which crosses between New South Wales into the state of Victoria.
02:03:25.000And, you know, we name things pretty simply in Australia.
02:03:28.000You know, the black snake with red on its stomach is the red-bellied black snake.
02:03:35.000You know, we keep it pretty simple for the tourists.
02:03:41.000So that area of the country is called the Snowy Mountains.
02:03:47.000And, you know, we have this sort of cultural connection to the Brombies, which is things like, you know, the man from Snowy River is based on guys going out to capture wild horses.
02:03:58.000But the population of wild horses has got to a point where it's destroying the ecosystem of that area.
02:04:06.000So now they have to go and find a way of bringing that population down.
02:04:11.000And it's very difficult for people, particularly somebody like me who I love horses, but I have to put that love for horses aside to what it's doing to the rest of the native animals.
02:04:21.000And in Australia, we've been blessed with so many unusual and fantastic creatures, but we haven't really been good husbands of the land.
02:04:31.000And we haven't really focused on what's good for them.
02:04:36.000Yeah, I have a good buddy of mine, Adam Greentree, who lives in Australia, and he tells me that people actually hunt the wild horses.
02:04:43.000I was like, oh, I don't think I can do that.
02:04:47.000It sounds rough, but we've got to do something because, quite frankly, the wombats and the platypus and the quokkas and the kangaroos and the wallabies are a little bit more important than the wild horses.
02:05:12.000That's what they were trying to highlight in that Wolves Change River documentary.
02:05:17.000The problem with that Wolves Change River documentary is the guy who created that is a proponent of rewilding to the point where I think he wants to reintroduce dangerous predators to Europe.
02:05:30.000Like he's got some crazy ideas about rewilding, like going way back.
02:05:36.000I mean, the kid that I was talking to you about, Merlin Hanbury Tennyson, came out of school, went in the army, did two or three tours, but now has found himself in a situation where he's taken over a block of land that his father bought in the 50s or 60s or something.
02:05:58.000And he's turning that block of land back into temperate rainforest and seeing all of these benefits because of it.
02:06:06.000So instead of trying to run sheep or run some other commercial herd, he's just letting the country go back to what it should be and seeing incredible results because of it.
02:08:10.000And sometimes, you know, I might drive a machine to a certain point and I just get off and I walk and I just listen, you know, and I go and visit trees that I like or areas that I like.
02:08:21.000I'm actually going through a, you know, a long time ago, I planted like 38,000 trees as a kind of an offset, a carbon offset, right?
02:08:31.000Now some of those trees are 25 plus years old.
02:08:34.000So I'm going through the process in that 44 acres where I've planted that plantation of taking out all the non-native undergrowth.
02:08:41.000And then the next stage is going to be putting back into that area the trees that were ripped out of there prior to the First World War, red cedar and white mahogany and all these things.
02:09:31.000It's exciting to know that you have this long-term thing that you're doing that's actually beneficial to the land and brings it back to the way it used to be.
02:09:38.000Yeah, not like in a sort of overbearing way, but like just that little 44 acres, hopefully over time, and we're already seeing it now.
02:09:48.000We're sort of like, because we're clearing things out, we're finding lots of little tiny red cedars that are already there.
02:09:53.000Because I put in 450 to start with, but my aim is to have, you know, within about the next probably two to three years, have 5,000 red cedars in the ground in that area.
02:10:06.000It's just amazing when you think about the kind of impact that human beings can have on landscape.
02:10:12.000It's just humans, whatever we've done, wherever we go, we inevitably alter everything forever.
02:10:21.000And if you could just take a little bit of it, put it back to the way it was, and then start contributing to these plants regrowing again, there's a balance to that.
02:10:30.000It's very cool that you can achieve that.
02:10:38.000Some guy that has the kind of pressures that you have and the work that you have to do and the intensity and the long hours on sets, like having something like that is a godsend.
02:10:52.000You know, I look back and it's just, how did I know?
02:10:55.000Because at 32, you know, I had a little bit of fame in Australia, but it was nothing compared to what I would have to deal with after that.
02:11:05.000So having that sort of forethought is just interesting.
02:11:11.000Is there anything that you ever always wanted to do, like a type of film that you've always wanted to do that you never got a chance to?
02:11:17.000Well, see, there are definitely guys in my business that covet.
02:11:24.000They go, I want to do this kind of role.
02:11:25.000I want to be perceived like that, you know.
02:12:01.000And there's a lot of stuff that goes into being able to play a character like that.
02:12:08.000But that danger is part of the excitement of the job.
02:12:13.000And it's not always going to be that way.
02:12:15.000Sometimes you're playing a character that doesn't really require a lot from you.
02:12:20.000But you've got to play the weight of the character.
02:12:24.000You can't just sort of suddenly make your New York detective act like a superhero because you feel like being a superhero.
02:12:33.000So it's sort of like, you know, you just play the weight of what's required.
02:12:37.000And then every now and then, you know, you play a character that sort of has a principal sort of role in the narrative or is the focus of the narrative.
02:12:49.000But the decision to take on the weight of playing a character that's a Nazi, the second in charge, that's what was out.
02:13:22.000And see, someone like Goering, that word nuance is coming up a lot today because we can look at him in the stark sort of caricature version that a lot of people have in their minds of who he was.
02:13:41.000But that against the reality of his life and how he grew up, how he was educated, what his experiences were, who he really was as a man.
02:13:52.000There's a lot more to Goering than just looking at this going, oh, bad man, Nazi.
02:13:58.000One thing I find fascinating, when he was a kid at school, he was like one of the dumbest students in his class at a normal school.
02:14:06.000And because of his sort of continuous failure as a punishment, he got sent to military school.
02:14:15.000In military school, he was a top student because it was stuff that interested him.
02:14:21.000He comes out of school pretty much on the dawn of the First World War, has his first military experience in the infantry as a young officer, gets wounded, and realizes that standing on the ground on a battlefield is not really the right place for him.
02:14:38.000What's interesting him is what keeps going on overhead.
02:14:42.000So he manufactures a way to get himself assigned to a fighter squadron.
02:14:47.000He's supposed to turn back up for duty with his infantry squadron, but sort of, you know, manufactures a way to keep him associated with the fighter squadron, learns how to become a pilot while he's doing that.
02:14:58.000And at a certain point in the war, they're losing more pilots than they train.
02:15:12.000And he's also, because he recently passed in battle, at the end of the First World War, he's in charge of the Baron von Richthofen, the Red Baron Squadron, which is the pinnacle of the German Air Force.
02:15:45.000So, and he goes into that political environment, that post-Versai environment, with a very definite belief in his country as being something special, and he wants to make a contribution to bring lifting his country out of the mire that it's currently in.
02:16:02.000So he starts looking for a political connection and ends up going upstairs in a coffee house in Munich, I think it was, and hearing a fellow called Adolf Hitler talk and realizes that he has a lot in common with this guy where he sees things and knows that Hitler was a soldier.
02:16:21.000It's a funny thing we put into the movie at one point because there's a speech about Rami that Rami Malik makes about Hitler being a failed painter and a not very good soldier.
02:16:32.000And I think the response I gave Goering at the time, which is not in the film, but he talks through Hitler's actual military record.
02:16:43.000And yeah, he didn't rise above Lance Corporal, but he turned down promotion three different times.
02:16:49.000He won an Iron Cross in 1914 and then he won a second one in 1918.
02:16:55.000And doing things that were showing such extreme courage that he was awarded the Iron Cross.
02:17:02.000And he delivered messages on the battlefield.
02:17:04.000He would take the messages from headquarters and take it to the frontline troops and then bring their response back, things like that.
02:17:11.000So one point in time I had Goering say, you call him a failed painter, but maybe he got to a certain point in his life where there were more important things to address than painting.
02:17:53.000So you look at him and you can see it.
02:17:56.000When you know that fact and you start looking at photographs, you can see him kind of leave the planet at a certain point where he's just off his tits all the time.
02:18:04.000From about 42 onwards, he doesn't really have Adolf's ear anymore.
02:18:09.000Goebbels, Himmler, Heydrich, they've all taken those positions.
02:18:12.000The things that he promised he could do with the Luftwaffe didn't actually come off as strongly.
02:18:18.000They didn't know it at the time, but that's the Enigma machine, everything, the code's being broken.
02:18:23.000So no matter what they did, they were always being second-guessed.
02:18:27.000So, you know, Hitler's trust of him was adjusted a little bit.
02:18:32.000And I also sort of liken it to him knowing he's going to get stabbed.
02:18:38.000So he just doesn't bother going to the place where he would get stabbed.
02:18:42.000So he does a whole bunch of other stuff and he keeps his authority, but he's not at in the center of things anymore for me.
02:18:56.000It's personal safety because he thinks he's no longer has the definitive ear and trust of his leader.
02:19:04.000The pills overtake his lifestyle and he decides to interest himself in other things for the greater good of Germany, like the collection of great works of art and things like that.
02:19:14.000But there's a lot of things in this story that are just bigger once you start looking at it and examining them.
02:19:24.000They're way bigger than what we know or what we commonly understand.
02:19:28.000And that's what I was looking for to try and find a way to understand his base motivations.
02:19:36.000And at the end of the day, he, you know, in his own way, he's a pure patriot.
02:19:44.000Just so happens to be a sort of a set of beliefs or whatever that most of us in the Western world would call abhorrent.
02:20:21.000This is not like when we grew up, we didn't grow up thinking that they were just drugged, psychotic, you know, animals that were on meth, you know, in tanks.
02:20:31.000And the most, they gave the people the front line the most meth.
02:20:35.000So they had different dosages for different people depending on what they were required to do.
02:20:39.000And the tank guy has got the first thing.
02:20:40.000When you think about Goering's position, he's the one ordering the drugs.
02:21:48.000But I think him cleaning up by being forced by being in a prison environment, being forced by the Allies to go cold turkey, nearly killed him.
02:21:57.000He had sort of heart problems because he went from 40 or 50 a day to nothing.
02:22:03.000So but that clarity of thought that he had After being clean for six or nine months when the trial starts, that became dangerous because now he's sort of got his faculties back and he's intent on breaking down this whole idea of international law as being ridiculous.
02:22:27.000That he's a man who served his country.
02:22:35.000So he's quote unquote following orders.
02:22:39.000And, you know, they were a democratically elected government who then step by step dismantled democracy once they were in power.
02:22:49.000And the fascinating thing about this character and the way you play him is in the beginning, he seems like a guy on opiates because he's like so relaxed about everything.
02:22:59.000You know, it's like he doesn't seem to be carrying the weight of what's happened to him.
02:23:05.000And for you to put, and then there's dark moments, particularly like during the trial, where you're like, whoa, there's a lot of range to this guy.
02:23:15.000And that's got to be a weird place to be, for you to try to put yourself in the mind of what ultimately became one of the most horrific figures in modern history.
02:23:49.000Yeah, but, you know, you ask anybody and you would be the same.
02:23:55.000Just because in a little while the podcast is over for the day doesn't mean that that's the end of your job.
02:24:02.000It doesn't mean you're just going to turn off and never think about it again.
02:24:05.000You're going to obviously, you know, anybody who has a passion for the thing that they do is going to continue the process.
02:24:11.000Five o'clock might be when the office closes, but you're going to go home, you're going to have dinner, you're going to think about the deal that you're currently doing, the presentation that's ahead of you, or whatever it happens to be.
02:24:21.000And that's what happens when you're playing a character because you might have delivered X amount of dialogue today, but you've got X amount tomorrow too.
02:24:27.000So you've got to keep that process going.
02:24:30.000So you're just thinking about a novel.
02:24:53.000I mean, and there's, you know, good and bad in that.
02:24:57.000There's a saying that goes with this, you know, the best thing and the worst thing about the job that I do is that one day it's going to finish.
02:25:52.000And so I had five years, five years of, you know, scratching around, trying to find little bits of information to humanize him in my mind, but also for me to try and understand him and understand what he got in.
02:26:07.000Because it doesn't make a lot of sense when you read about his history and stuff and where he gets to doesn't make a lot of sense.
02:26:18.000When he was a young man, there are traverses in the Austrian Alps that Hermann Göring was the first person to do that traverse of that peak.
02:26:29.000You think about the mentality required of a mountaineer to stand at the base of a big-ass rock and look up and say, I'm going to keep going until I reach that summit.
02:26:42.000That says a lot about who Hermann Goering really was.
02:26:52.000And once, because I didn't know he was a mountain climber, once I knew that, then I started looking around for, well, what does that mean to be a mountain climber, you know, prior to the First World War?
02:27:02.000What kind of equipment would you have?
02:27:18.000Just all stretchy hemp that's going to behave completely differently once it gets wet.
02:27:26.000But it gave me some real insight to him.
02:27:30.000And it also ended up giving me this great way of connecting to the other German guys who are playing the other Nazis, you know.
02:27:38.000Because I just knew from the first day when they all arrived and they were sitting together in a group, I could see that they were already feeling the punishment of playing that kind of character.
02:27:50.000So I just brought them together and I asked them because these guys, some of them are German, some of them are Hungarian.
02:27:58.000And I said, look, you know, there's this song that I found and I'd like to learn the song together.
02:28:05.000And they all, you know, most of them knew the song.
02:28:07.000But that's what we would do every day as a group.
02:28:09.000We'd get together, we'd sing that song and then we'd walk into court together, feeling connected as a unit, you know.
02:29:39.000You know, and that, but there's some real truth in understanding the human process in that.
02:29:49.000That somebody who makes the absolute worst decision in the world can still be a loving father, can still have a group of friends.
02:30:01.000But on, you know, particular in a particular moment, that is the same person who's made this horrific decision that will have terrible effect on a generation of people.
02:30:12.000Yeah, I mean, it's really the same kind of thing we were talking about with Tony Soprano.
02:30:38.000But when that process of charm goes to this other place, which becomes about life and death, or the taking away of people's rights, the dehumanizing of people, as we were discussing earlier, you know, and this, you know, I don't want to get into politics because I have this, my boys have this rule.
02:30:55.000If you're going to talk to Joe, you're not allowed to discuss politics because they know once I start.
02:31:03.000Because my youngest boy, I think I told you, he became obsessed with you and listening to your stuff for a while, and you became one of his sort of points of education.
02:31:13.000And, you know, so that's why I started listening to you because I wanted to know what he was hearing, you know.
02:31:18.000And I go, and after listening a few times, I was like, you know what, man, it's cool.
02:31:58.000But it's, I think what you're saying is absolutely true, that it is stupid to think that way because that's a human being and a very fucked up, evil human being that did horrific things.
02:32:10.000But know that that is a path that people can go down even if they think they're doing the right thing.
02:32:17.000So we are taught, for example, to regard Gaddafi in a certain way.
02:32:23.000But if you look into what happened in his country while he was the leader, you look into the fact that every person is given a house at a certain age.
02:32:37.000You look at the fact that everybody's education and health care is free.
02:32:42.000You look at if somebody showed a particular talent for something that required further education overseas, all of the costs of that were paid for by the government.
02:32:53.000Now, these are all things put in place by the same country's leader that we're told is evil and corrupt.
02:36:27.000You know, the United States is one of the weird things about us is that we're a country that thinks mostly of ourselves and hardly ever leaves.
02:36:37.000You know, some people leave, but I bet there's a solid percentage of people that never leave the United States and maybe never even leave their city.
02:36:46.000And your version of the world, you're relying on other people to give you the story of what the world is until you go somewhere, until you go to Thailand, until you go somewhere.
02:36:56.000Well, you're like, wow, this is a totally different way of living out here.
02:36:59.000Yeah, I've even had people come down to help me with movies or whatever, like guys that are coming down to train me in some weapon or other or whatever.
02:37:08.000And they do a lot of traveling, but it's all within the continental USA.
02:37:13.000And they come to Australia and they didn't realize that other people have opinions.
02:37:20.000You're not going to find a heck of a lot of agreement to some very basic tenets if you're sitting in an Australian bar.
02:37:28.000You'll find a whole bunch of people go, that's fucking stupid, mate.
02:38:25.000Which is the strength and also, you know, the problem with the last four years was that they were just letting anybody in and they weren't vetting people and they were inviting people in.
02:38:39.000And the problem now is they're grabbing people that are productive citizens and they're grabbing them and taking them out because they don't have the right paperwork.
02:38:55.000But you do have to be aware, too, though, a lot of the information that we know about that is coming to us from a motivation that we don't necessarily read.
02:39:13.000Yeah, we're constantly being manipulated.
02:39:16.000I had Representative Luna on the podcast, and one of the things that she said that I kind of knew was probably true, but I didn't want to believe it.
02:39:25.000She was like, there's a lot of problems they never solve on purpose so that they could campaign against them.
02:39:32.000That's why they keep these things in play.
02:39:34.000That resolutions could have been reached, problems could have been solved.
02:39:38.000But these politicians are so self-serving that they don't ever want that to take place.
02:39:42.000These people that run these two individual parties want to keep that banter back and forth.
02:40:01.000Now the person with a different coloured hat, they're in charge, and they're going to put in place exactly what they said the other person was doing that was wrong is now part of their policy platform.
02:40:11.000What is wrong with the way Australia is run?
02:40:16.000Well, we're a little bit lucky at the moment.
02:40:19.000We have a prime minister who's very much motivated by trying to help everybody, which should be the job of a politician, right?
02:40:31.000To improve the lives of the people that they represent.
02:40:34.000And he's kind of inherited, you know, a conger line of stupidity that was going on, you know, and he's trying to fix things.
02:40:47.000But of course, just the way things are reported, whatever, you know, there's just haters on every corner.
02:40:56.000But he's a good man, and he's doing his very best.
02:40:59.000And he's, you know, working extremely hard.
02:41:03.000But, you know, like he arrives off a plane the other day.
02:41:06.000He's just come back home from some very successful international meetings where he's established various trade things and opportunities and situations for Australia.
02:41:16.000Gets off the plane wearing a Joy Division t-shirt.
02:41:26.000He's been wearing a suit and tie for weeks on the road.
02:41:29.000He's just walking off Australia's version of Air Force One in a Joy Division t-shirt.
02:41:34.000So the member of the opposition wanted to point out, and did so in Parliament, that Joy Division is a Nazi term and comes from a section of a particular camp where the women were prostituted, and that's why it was called the Joy Division.
02:41:50.000And it's like, okay, what's the point of that?
02:42:07.000And that's what you're facing all the time.
02:42:09.000Picking up some pointless piece of minutiae and lighting it on fire and making a smokescreen to cover up the reality of the fact that that prime minister just worked his ass off on behalf of the country and successfully achieved a bunch of things and should be patted on the back, not pushed down the stairs.
02:42:57.000But that gambling section of the community is worth a lot of money and people in positions of power.
02:43:05.000Because it's not necessarily, it's not the guy that's going to spend his whole wages gambling through an app that gets to have a say in this.
02:43:16.000It's the guy whose family money allows him to run a string of 18 racehorses and he enjoys going to the races on the weekend.
02:43:24.000And gambling for him is not such a big deal because he's got an income from other things.
02:43:32.000So it's the wrong perspective on a problem sometimes is the actual problem.
02:43:39.000And the fact that this is a fairly new thing and that young people growing up with this, there's not a history of people abusing gambling apps.
02:43:50.000It's not something their parents had to deal with.
02:43:54.000Generationally, it's not something that I can, oh, from my experience, I can tell you this.
02:43:58.000So I had to have a, you know, when I had that conversation with my boys, it was a broader conversation about gambling and about, you know, what it takes to earn a dollar.
02:44:08.000Yeah, I think the accessibility issue is something that people have a problem with.
02:44:11.000The fact that it's on a phone versus going to a place.
02:44:14.000Like you choose to get your buddies together, you're going to go play poker in a casino.
02:44:27.000It's just there's always some sort of point of attack.
02:44:32.000There's always an attack vector for people getting your attention or getting your money and trying to, and then we have to decide as a society, like, do we, is this good to just allow, like, we want freedom, but do we want to, like, you can't advertise cigarettes on TV anymore, right?
02:44:49.000They decided at one point in time, this is crazy.
02:46:48.000And so I've probably connected with them about five times since that first time we went.
02:46:53.000And the real benefit that I'm getting that I think, right, because I'm not completely over the science, but it seems to be with these injections that I've been getting into my shoulders, into my knees, but also IVs, that it's calmed down my body's inflammation.
02:47:18.000You know, I think we've talked before about just how many old injuries I carry, you know, and how like injuries in my shoulders are deeply arthritic.
02:47:25.000But we can now see in an ultrasound over time how what was messy a year ago and like big thick bands of arthritis now is just lessened, you know, probably by about 70%.
02:47:41.000And one area in my right shoulder, probably about 90%.
02:47:45.000So my range of motion, if we'd done this last year, would have been about there, right?
02:47:50.000But now it's fucking rock and roll something.
02:48:02.000And that was one of the things I was worried about with Highlander because jumping into that role with the shooting date coming, it was like, man, I've got to do three workouts a day.
02:49:12.000The problem I've got is I've got X amount of time to claim the skill.
02:49:18.000And either way, right, if I do the rehab exercises without doing surgery, if it fails, I'm now falling right on production and I've retorn or something, right?
02:50:21.000Well, the thing is, we were warm, but it was a thing that I just, just in that split second, I thought, I wonder what it's like to go full speed.
02:50:58.000And with martial arts and specifically sword fighting, there's very specific movements that you're learning.
02:51:06.000And if you learn those movements slow, as you speed up, you'll be going along the right pathway.
02:51:11.000And when I would teach people kicks in particular, because it's a weird thing to learn how to kick something, like you've got to do it slowly.
02:51:19.000Because if you try to muscle it, you're going to develop a bad habit that's going to keep you from achieving full power because you want a proper technique.
02:51:26.000Yeah, and you have to process where your balance is.
02:52:24.000So it's possibly not at everybody's grasp what the sort of things that I'm doing.
02:52:29.000But I think, I'm not sure if this is absolutely right, but I think, you know, one of his sort of fervent ambitions, Brigham, is to make it more available.
02:52:42.000You know, if we can sort of write things in our bodies with an injection as opposed to an operation.
02:52:48.000You know, the problem I had in my left shoulder, I go and see my shoulder surgeon who fixed it while I was doing Cinderella Man.
02:52:56.000And so I did two operations with this guy, one in 2001 and the second one in 2004.
02:53:06.000But it's always had a sort of problem.
02:53:08.000And he did say at the time after the second operation that he had to cut a few corners and it would probably cause me problems later on in life.
02:53:15.000So I probably went to see him about five or six years ago.
02:53:19.000And he said, okay, so this shoulder is at a point of arthritis now.
02:53:23.000What we have to do is we have to cut through the muscle bar.
02:53:26.000We have to pop out the humil head of your armbone.
02:53:29.000We have to shave off the top of the human head, and then we have to put a carbon fiber cap, and then we have to put it back in, sew everything back up.
02:53:36.000You've got about 12 months of rehab, right?
02:54:10.000And these new breakthroughs, they're able to achieve their growing actual cartilage on people that were bone on bone.
02:54:22.000So they're developing new methods to regenerate tissue.
02:54:26.000That's the cushioning in between your knees and your elbows and all these things and shoulders that were requiring people to get those horrific things.
02:54:35.000Putting an artificial joint in place because everything is so arthritic.
02:54:38.000That's one of the things that does trouble me greatly for this country.
02:54:55.000Something has perverted here where, you know, the drug that I might need that I can buy for $50 for a month supply in Australia is $2,500 for a month here.
02:55:23.000Because everybody's got their hands tied.
02:55:25.000Yeah, they're all got their, including the media.
02:55:27.000That's the crazy thing, is the amount of money they spend on advertising for the media that really just serves the purpose of now the media can't criticize the pharmaceutical drug companies.
02:55:38.000Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, I get back here as, you know, my girlfriend's from New Orleans.
02:55:44.000And, you know, we're sitting and watching TV here.
02:55:48.000And she's now seeing America from the outside because she spends most of the time traveling with me and we don't spend that much time within America.
02:55:56.000You know, we live in Australia, but I've been working mainly in Europe the last few years.
02:56:01.000So she's now coming back to her country, but she's got fresh eyes.
02:56:06.000And she's sitting there the other night.
02:56:40.000Yeah, it's one of the biggest problems we have.
02:56:44.000You know, and the idea that you would let that happen and not do anything about it because you're bought and paid for by these enormous companies is kind of insane.
02:57:23.000That's crazy that healthcare isn't such a principle thing because if we're not looking after ourselves and aiming for the longest life, what's the point of the human existence kind of thing?