The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2417 - Ben van Kerkwyk

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan podcast, check it out!

00:00:03.000 The Joe Rogan experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

00:00:12.000 Ben!

00:00:13.000 See, gimmick.

00:00:14.000 So last time you were on, we barely scratched the surface of all the things that we wanted to talk about.

00:00:18.000 So immediately we're like, we've got to do another one quick because you want to talk about the Sphinx.

00:00:22.000 The Sphinx, yes.

00:00:23.000 Yeah, we were on, we got into the well, the labyrinth was kind of the big labyrinth is nuts.

00:00:27.000 I still haven't been able to get over it.

00:00:28.000 The 40-meter metallic shaped tic-tac-shaped thing that's in the ground.

00:00:34.000 Like, what is that?

00:00:36.000 Well, I hope we'll find out.

00:00:37.000 I mean, I don't know.

00:00:39.000 The wheels do turn a little slowly, but the point of that was to try and drive some awareness.

00:00:44.000 Maybe we'll get some sort of angel investor in there to go and look at it and solve the problem, do something.

00:00:49.000 Someone needs to talk to Elon.

00:00:50.000 Yeah, I'm not the guy.

00:00:52.000 I talked to him.

00:00:53.000 He's too much as it is.

00:00:54.000 He's too busy.

00:00:55.000 But someone who can't do that.

00:00:56.000 Yeah, he's someone, or maybe Bezos would like to be the first guy to get in there.

00:00:56.000 He's solving all problems.

00:01:01.000 Someone has to get in there.

00:01:02.000 You have to figure out what that thing is.

00:01:03.000 That's crazy.

00:01:04.000 This might be one of the biggest mysteries in the entire human civilization record.

00:01:09.000 Who's the guy?

00:01:09.000 Yeah.

00:01:10.000 Who's the director that went to the bottom of the Cameron?

00:01:13.000 I mean, he likes going places that nobody's gone before.

00:01:15.000 They tell the hole and get down.

00:01:16.000 Maybe.

00:01:17.000 Someone should do it.

00:01:18.000 They just, I don't think enough people know.

00:01:20.000 A lot of people know that we're listening to this podcast, but not enough people that would do something, that can do something.

00:01:27.000 You know what I mean?

00:01:28.000 It's like we reach a lot of knuckleheads.

00:01:31.000 We reach a lot with a wide variety of people, but the percentage of people that have the resources to make something happen.

00:01:38.000 They have to work something out with the Egyptian government, right?

00:01:40.000 So they have to do something with those dams.

00:01:42.000 Yes.

00:01:42.000 Well, and you don't have to, no, I don't think it takes the dams.

00:01:44.000 You would have to remediate the water on the site, at least like somehow box it out, right?

00:01:49.000 You've got to drain, you'd have to drain this massive area.

00:01:52.000 Or at least if you were targeted enough, you might be able to drain a smaller area to then excavate in that area.

00:01:57.000 We should probably explain to people that didn't listen to the last podcast.

00:02:00.000 Just a real quick synopsis.

00:02:01.000 Real quick synopsis.

00:02:02.000 So the labyrinth, we're talking about the great lost labyrinth of ancient Egypt, which was described by figures like Herodotus, Diodorus, Siculus, Pliny the Elder, figures from antiquity, these authors, and they've described it as being greater in magnificence than the pyramids.

00:02:18.000 They had these just mind-bending descriptions of what this site was, like multiple levels, 3,000 rooms.

00:02:25.000 You would get lost in it.

00:02:26.000 It had giant courtyards with pillars all made from.

00:02:30.000 I mean, one guy, I think it was Strabo, described the roof as being a single piece of stone, which I don't think it was, but it's describing those perfect joins that you see in the real megalithic work from Egypt.

00:02:39.000 So it's this giant mystery.

00:02:41.000 We know it's there, and it was kind of lost to time until we found it again, basically.

00:02:48.000 It was discovered.

00:02:49.000 It was always known about because there were clues about its location.

00:02:51.000 It was always theorized to have been at this place called Hawara, which is near the Fayoum in Egypt.

00:02:57.000 And, you know, Petrie went there and dug it up, a Flinders Petrie in the late 1800s, early 1900s, and he found massive stone slabs, and he thought he was standing on its foundation like it's been quarried and taken away.

00:03:09.000 And rather than that, though, it turns out he was most likely standing on the roof of like the top layer.

00:03:13.000 It was like 10 meters below the ground.

00:03:15.000 It's so nuts.

00:03:17.000 Quite in.

00:03:18.000 But then the Madahar expedition happened, I think, in the mid-like 2017 or 2015.

00:03:23.000 There was an expedition run by a guy named Louis Decordia in partnership with the Egyptian government.

00:03:28.000 They used ground-penetrating radar, sonic techniques, like well-established subsurface techniques.

00:03:33.000 And they found it.

00:03:34.000 They found these massive cyclopean walls that were meters thick.

00:03:38.000 It was a labyrinthian structure.

00:03:40.000 It's well verified.

00:03:41.000 It's below the water table level of what's on that site now.

00:03:44.000 So you have water table sort of five meters below the surface.

00:03:47.000 The labyrinth starts at nine, ten meters.

00:03:50.000 And that was, there's some controversy, some controversy around that report because it was buried.

00:03:55.000 Like, so he found it.

00:03:57.000 They never published the report.

00:03:58.000 It was squashed by Zahir Wass. 0.99

00:04:00.000 This is according to Louis Decordier.

00:04:02.000 He threatened him and his team with national security sanctions if they talked about it.

00:04:08.000 It just was put away.

00:04:09.000 He waited a few years.

00:04:10.000 He finally released the report.

00:04:11.000 It's like, holy shit, we found the labyrinth.

00:04:13.000 And then this then spurred some other companies to use some of these new space-based scanning techniques.

00:04:19.000 There's been at least two that have been done, very different techniques, but they found the same thing.

00:04:23.000 They found that there is, in fact, a massive underground structure at this place called Hawara.

00:04:28.000 It goes much deeper than what you could reach with those ground-penetrating radar and those established techniques.

00:04:33.000 60, 70 meters below the ground.

00:04:35.000 There's multiple levels, three or four levels.

00:04:37.000 And they correlate.

00:04:38.000 So one scan's a statistical model.

00:04:40.000 Another one that uses high-frequency photography along with, I think, seismic data, very similar to the Doppler tomography work that's being done by the Italians at places like the Giza Plateau now.

00:04:53.000 And they both correlate.

00:04:54.000 Yes, there's a big structure, but one of the most interesting facts that came out of this scan was it seems like in this massive central Atrium that's that's just one big giant open room 40, 50 meters long that connects to all of these levels, there seems to be this unidentified metallic object that's freestanding in this room.

00:05:10.000 It's about 40 meters long and it seems to be tic-tac shaped.

00:05:13.000 Is what is what this report said?

00:05:15.000 So it's a fucking Ufo in Egyptians, did it?

00:05:20.000 Yeah, I don't know.

00:05:21.000 I mean, could you tantalizing, could you imagine?

00:05:25.000 Could you imagine, if they get in there and they really do find a recovered spacecraft?

00:05:31.000 Yeah, then what?

00:05:31.000 What do we do then?

00:05:33.000 Because if this is a public excavation that's the question yeah, we'd have to bring in the seals.

00:05:38.000 We need to like, lock that place down.

00:05:40.000 Maybe we need to occupy Egypt just to figure out how to get this done. 1.00

00:05:44.000 Occupy Hawara let's let's, let's just occupy the whole country. 1.00

00:05:49.000 You'd have to bribe them something, give them money, whatever you got to do.

00:05:52.000 Like if I, if I, was a president, that would be like my number one priority.

00:05:55.000 I mean it, you know.

00:05:56.000 Yeah it's it's, it has the potential.

00:05:58.000 I think I, I there's been a little bit more of this from Egypt.

00:06:00.000 They've uh the, I guess the establishment there.

00:06:03.000 They seem a little more willing to engage in some of the the mystery.

00:06:06.000 I genuinely do think that that's that discoveries like these can, can only help and boost tourism like it's gonna.

00:06:12.000 All we want is to bring people in.

00:06:14.000 It will bring way more.

00:06:15.000 Could you imagine if they actually figure out a way to drain all the water out of the labyrinth?

00:06:19.000 They give you a tour and show you the spaceship.

00:06:21.000 How much you pay in to see this spaceship.

00:06:24.000 Bro, i'm paying a ton of money to go see that spaceship.

00:06:27.000 That's a special permission.

00:06:28.000 Like that's the way we do they.

00:06:29.000 They're very good at that.

00:06:30.000 Like there's.

00:06:30.000 There's a lot of places you can now go in Egypt that are these special permissions.

00:06:34.000 It's thousands of dollars, but you know we go yeah much money.

00:06:38.000 People could charge like 10 grand.

00:06:40.000 They could charge like a lot of money just to go look at the spaceship.

00:06:43.000 Might yeah might, it'd be like Mecca, like Mecca for ufo dorks.

00:06:47.000 It would be insane to see.

00:06:49.000 Depends what, who knows what.

00:06:50.000 Well, the guy did say too, it didn't seem like any metal that he'd seen before.

00:06:53.000 Like it.

00:06:54.000 He couldn't identify what type of metal it was.

00:06:56.000 It's alien right, it's element one for sure it's alien.

00:07:00.000 It's made out of that same stuff that comet's made out of the Ai Atlas. 0.88

00:07:04.000 Oh yeah three, the Three Eye Atlas the, whatever it is, the thing that's off gassing some nickel, nickel alloy or something.

00:07:10.000 It's a giant nickel the size of Manhattan.

00:07:14.000 Yes, that's jetting towards the sun.

00:07:15.000 Although didn't NASA come in, I think they released their images, I think, recently.

00:07:20.000 There's some images they came out and said, oh, the comet's doing this and doing that.

00:07:20.000 I can't believe that.

00:07:24.000 It's doing a lot of weird stuff.

00:07:26.000 But it definitely seems to be a comet.

00:07:27.000 Unless you ask Avi Loeb.

00:07:29.000 And he's like, anything can be a spaceship.

00:07:32.000 He's got a point.

00:07:33.000 He does.

00:07:33.000 He's got a point.

00:07:34.000 We don't know what one would look like.

00:07:35.000 We've not seen.

00:07:36.000 I mean, it's a small sample size as it is for interstellar objects, right?

00:07:39.000 We have three to compare.

00:07:41.000 But two of them have been really fucking weird.

00:07:43.000 I think the point we're getting at is, and this is the point of all these conversations, is that there's some stuff that is yet to be discovered that has previously been discovered that might be like, it might blow the dam down on all this stuff to the point where like, okay, whatever you think happened here, a lot more happened, and it seems way crazier.

00:08:05.000 If the stuff underneath the Giza Plateau is correct, and if the stuff, which is like, what?

00:08:10.000 And if the labyrinth, if they can show you that this, not only was Herodotus depicting an actual place, but we can show it to you and it's preserved and it's been under the water for 50 years.

00:08:22.000 Yeah, it would be amazing.

00:08:24.000 And yes, I think some of these things would knock down everything.

00:08:28.000 It's a house of cards, right?

00:08:30.000 I think there are elements of that that are obvious.

00:08:35.000 I mean, not obvious, but people can explore them and it starts to knock down the house of cuts.

00:08:39.000 It's how people end up with this, just looking at the contradictions in ancient Egypt.

00:08:43.000 But there are other examples of what I would say, like these things like the Madahar expedition that have been discovered, but then sort of covered up and kept secret.

00:08:53.000 And a lot of them have to do with, you have the same tie-in with these ancient stories and accounts from history, not just from the Roman and Greek historians, but also the Arab historians, like Al-Masudi, for example, Herodotus of the Arabs, they called him.

00:09:11.000 He talked about tales of these tunnels and chambers beneath the Sphinx, that there were rooms beneath the Sphinx that then led out to like three different tunnels.

00:09:20.000 You have a number of other Arab historians from as far back as like 600 AD that have stories of getting into the pyramids and then getting lost in tunnels and chambers beneath them.

00:09:31.000 Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of these crazy, you hear these stories of like the Hall of Records, right?

00:09:35.000 The people like Edgar Casey, the American psychic in the 1940s who, you know, he would, have you heard of Edgar Casey?

00:09:44.000 Yeah, he must have.

00:09:45.000 So he would fall into these trance-like states and he'd have these visions.

00:09:48.000 He's called like the sleeping prophet, they would call him, or he's like one of the Americans' psychic.

00:09:53.000 And he wasn't just about things around Egypt.

00:09:57.000 He did prophesize and talk about locations for three halls of records, which were these Atlantean caches of information, like a pre-diluvian civilization.

00:10:07.000 He did call it Atlantis.

00:10:08.000 But he would also have these predictions about the stock market.

00:10:11.000 And a lot of people made a lot of money based on his predictions, and that led to the – He was really good at it?

00:10:16.000 Oh, yeah.

00:10:16.000 Yeah.

00:10:17.000 So apparently he went, I mean, whether he was like, I don't know.

00:10:20.000 I mean, I have.

00:10:21.000 Because that's always the question when it comes to psychics.

00:10:24.000 If you're a real psychic, why wouldn't you make all the money in the world from the stock market?

00:10:28.000 It did happen.

00:10:29.000 There was a lot of people who made a lot of money, and he did evidently too as well.

00:10:32.000 And so that led to the formation of something called the Edgar Casey Foundation, or the ARE, the Association for Research and Enlightenment, is the name of them.

00:10:39.000 They're still going strong today.

00:10:41.000 And they've been looking to try and find his halls of records.

00:10:48.000 And they've been trying to verify Casey's predictions.

00:10:51.000 One in particular that they've been chasing down is the famous Hall of Records, which he said was beneath the paws of the Sphinx.

00:10:59.000 So there's not, you know, the stories of this Hall of Records and these rooms beneath the Sphinx go back thousands of years.

00:11:05.000 Like, I mean, just not just the Arabs, but also Herodotus and these other guys also talked about that whole area, the Sphinx and everything else being vastly more ancient, even than the pyramids.

00:11:18.000 But there was some work done that happened in recent times, like in the 1990s.

00:11:23.000 Well, there's been a search going on since the early 70s that the ARE has been involved in.

00:11:28.000 And a lot of this is quite secretive.

00:11:30.000 A lot of this has never really come to light.

00:11:31.000 But there's some, until very recently, in fact, there's been some footage that came up that showed that there are, in fact, tunnels beneath the Sphinx that may well have been explored.

00:11:39.000 We're not quite sure.

00:11:41.000 But it's an interesting story.

00:11:42.000 So it does involve Mark Lehner and Zahi Huass, who are the authoritative figures involved in Egypt.

00:11:50.000 Are they bottlenecking this as well?

00:11:52.000 Do I have to go give them a hug?

00:11:54.000 Maybe.

00:11:54.000 Come on, guys.

00:11:55.000 Join us.

00:11:56.000 We'll blow you up.

00:11:56.000 Allegedly.

00:11:57.000 We'll make you so much more popular.

00:12:00.000 Well, it will help.

00:12:01.000 We'll get you more tourism.

00:12:04.000 I think the current guys that have been running the Department of Antiquities are embracing a little bit of that idea, but I do think there's been a little bit of gatekeeping that's happened.

00:12:11.000 Well, I think it's a generational thing.

00:12:14.000 I agree.

00:12:15.000 And I think when you are an academic or you are a person that's in a position of power like Zahi is, and you've been running things for so long and this new thing comes along, it's very threatening.

00:12:27.000 And when there's a lot of movement and momentum behind it, it's very threatening.

00:12:31.000 But that thing will just embrace you.

00:12:33.000 If you say, oh, my goodness, look what we've learned.

00:12:35.000 We've learned more new, amazing things about, wait for it, Egyptians.

00:12:41.000 It's the same people.

00:12:42.000 It's just older.

00:12:43.000 It's just older versions.

00:12:45.000 Like, this is why it's so dumb.

00:12:46.000 It's like you're just, you are only allowing part of the narrative to go through about how magnificent this culture is.

00:12:54.000 It's already the most magnificent culture in human civilization.

00:12:57.000 And in terms of history, when we look at it, nothing is anything like Egypt.

00:13:00.000 It's crazy.

00:13:01.000 No, and it wouldn't.

00:13:02.000 I imagine it's bigger and crazier.

00:13:04.000 And richer.

00:13:05.000 It's just richer and a longer history in this place.

00:13:07.000 It's still like it is.

00:13:09.000 It's the most magical place in the world.

00:13:10.000 Yeah, it is unfortunate.

00:13:12.000 I was just talking about this just yesterday, in fact.

00:13:16.000 The nature of establishment being to resist change, right?

00:13:20.000 It's unfortunate.

00:13:21.000 Control.

00:13:22.000 Control and to resist change.

00:13:24.000 To maintain control, not lose control.

00:13:26.000 That was the fear.

00:13:27.000 The fear is if I am a self-professed expert with an institution behind me with a nice name, and then all of a sudden some fucking asshole with an Australian accent comes along, a tech guy who becomes a YouTuber because he watched some asshole's podcast when he was younger.

00:13:42.000 Yep, pretty much.

00:13:44.000 This is true.

00:13:45.000 But it's you and Graham and Jimmy Corsetti and all these other amazing people.

00:13:49.000 And you guys are, you're showing the world that there's another side to a lot of these stories, and it's a legitimate side.

00:13:58.000 It's not just a legitimate, it's an unfathomable side.

00:14:01.000 When you're looking at some of the stuff, like Baalbeck, you're looking at those stones, there's unfathomable things that no one is saying they're unfathomable.

00:14:11.000 No one's saying, we don't know.

00:14:14.000 Everyone is saying, don't worry about it.

00:14:15.000 We got it all figured out.

00:14:16.000 Like, that's crazy.

00:14:18.000 I agree.

00:14:19.000 I think embracing them.

00:14:20.000 And I think I've made this point before, but it's the nature of the discourse that's changed that has forced, I think, a stronger reaction from the establishment.

00:14:32.000 The general public views things differently.

00:14:34.000 Well, the general public's involved in the discussion now.

00:14:36.000 If you go back more than 60, 70 years, I mean, general public didn't have access to this information.

00:14:41.000 They were, I mean, these discussions only happened in societies and in universities, but with the rise of firstly alternative authors and then the internet, now everybody's got a chance to have a platform and a set of ears to hear this information.

00:14:55.000 And it becomes more popular, guys.

00:14:57.000 Like you have had a huge impact on the popularity of these topics.

00:15:02.000 And that's, I think, what is threatening.

00:15:04.000 Always been popular.

00:15:05.000 The problem is they haven't been legitimized.

00:15:08.000 Like these ideas have always been popular.

00:15:10.000 It's just nobody gets, it's like there's a food that you want that no one's serving.

00:15:15.000 You know what I mean?

00:15:16.000 That's what it's like.

00:15:17.000 It's not like it wasn't popular.

00:15:18.000 Yeah.

00:15:19.000 Like I'm not unique in my interest in ancient Egypt or in ancient civilizations.

00:15:23.000 Everybody has, look at, let me ask men, like, what do you think about ancient Rome?

00:15:27.000 Guys think about ancient room all the time.

00:15:28.000 Yeah.

00:15:29.000 It's just a normal part of being a person that lives in a current civilization wondering what it was like in the past.

00:15:36.000 And then when you see something like Egypt, you're like, none of this makes sense.

00:15:40.000 No, there's massive contradictions.

00:15:42.000 And I think.

00:15:43.000 It seems so old.

00:15:44.000 Well, it does.

00:15:45.000 And I think what's made this, well, let's call it alternative perspective much more possible, even plausible, is all of the adjacent fields of science and work that is basically providing a plausible context for these ideas that there was an ancient lost civilization that is responsible for the roots of some of the things we see in these civilizations, responsible for some of the technological enigmas that we find on these sites.

00:16:13.000 And that, you know, that's this is all stuff that's happened in recent years in adjacent fields of science, things like the extension of the human timeline, the evidence for severe erosion on these sites, our understanding of climate history, and extension of cataclysm.

00:16:27.000 Timeline is huge.

00:16:28.000 That's huge.

00:16:29.000 Because, you know, we were just, Jesse Michaels and I were just having a conversation about this.

00:16:33.000 I was like, imagine if you would not lose any cognitive abilities, no decline at all, and modern science figured out a way to let you live a thousand years.

00:16:44.000 Imagine if you're a person who's working on material sciences and you're doing like 3D printing, you get to live a thousand years and you're a researcher and you still show up at work every day for a thousand years or 10,000 years.

00:16:56.000 That sounds nuts, but it doesn't.

00:16:58.000 Because if you can extend life, you can extend life for a very prolonged, especially with gene editing and a lot of the other crazy, who knows if they already figured that out back then.

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00:18:35.000 I mean, there seems to be some evidence that they might have.

00:18:38.000 What about the Sumerian kings list?

00:18:40.000 Well, this is a big part of it.

00:18:42.000 Yeah, I mean, not just them, but almost every civilization that talks about even the Bible, it talks about pre-diluvian or pre-flood civilizations, often talks about people living for hundreds of years, if not longer than that, thousands of years.

00:18:55.000 You have an Egyptian kings list that does the same thing, but even in the Bible, Noah was 600, right?

00:19:02.000 So you have, yeah, I think something like that.

00:19:04.000 You have many examples of these, what they would describe as pre-cataclysm or pre-flood civilizations where people live for a long time.

00:19:13.000 But you just, I mean, not just there's an extension of individual human timeline, but we also know that there's an extension of the human, like how long humans have been here.

00:19:23.000 Right.

00:19:23.000 Right?

00:19:23.000 Because that's going back further and further all the time.

00:19:27.000 We have skulls and fossil record evidence now where it's just slightly more than 300,000 years.

00:19:31.000 Genetic and studies into teeth morphology make the possibility open to whatever, 700,080,000 years ago.

00:19:38.000 There was a skull found.

00:19:39.000 Yeah, I mean, I think that was more, I think that's more of a Homo sapien clay to skull.

00:19:43.000 So it's like it may not be Homo sapien exactly us.

00:19:46.000 It might be a variety, but that's a whole other aspect on this too, is that where the last humans left, right, there were other types of humans that we know live for, in some cases, a couple million years that had similar, like even bigger brain sizes than we did.

00:20:02.000 We don't really know what their capabilities were.

00:20:06.000 We only can work with ourselves.

00:20:08.000 And then you combine that lengthening of time of like, okay, you have an intelligent social species that has the ability to build on knowledge of your, you know, your ancestors.

00:20:19.000 So, you know, one guy spends his life making a spear.

00:20:22.000 The next guy spends his life perfecting how to throw it.

00:20:26.000 We have this unique ability to stand on this knowledge that's passed down from our direct ancestors and therefore build up our capability and it inevitably leads towards civilization.

00:20:37.000 And if you stretch that way back in time and now you look at things like the climate history and the history of cataclysm on this planet, this possibility that these civilizations may have arisen and then been completely destroyed at some point over the last several hundred thousand years, you can't just dismiss that.

00:20:57.000 There's a strong possibility that it's possible.

00:21:01.000 And in fact, there seems to be a lot of other contextual evidence to support it in origin tales, in stories, in the echoes of sacred geometry and advanced mathematics and knowledge of the cosmos and also planetary dimensions and geodetic data,

00:21:18.000 all this stuff that's encoded into these monuments and into these stories and tales that we can't explain how these so-called primitive civilizations like the Egyptians or the Sumerians knew this information, yet it's there and it's encoded in their monuments and in their data.

00:21:37.000 But we can't explain.

00:21:38.000 Even the Greeks, you can't explain the precision of some of the aspects of things like the pyramids.

00:21:44.000 But yeah, I mean, you just, and again, with the cataclysms that we know have happened, the younger drys just being the most recent, but if you go back several hundred thousand years, you have these massive, you know, interglacial periods and glacial maximum periods, right?

00:21:57.000 That these cycles that we go through, where you have this big glaciation buildup, and then you have just, you know, these, what must have been catastrophic floods, and then interglacial periods.

00:22:08.000 In fact, there was a period called the Aeolian period.

00:22:11.000 It was about 120,000 years ago.

00:22:14.000 That was very much like the Holocene that we're in today.

00:22:16.000 In fact, it lasted longer than the Holocene has currently lasted.

00:22:19.000 We've been in the Holocene maybe 10,000 years, 10,000, 11,000 years.

00:22:24.000 I think the Aeolian period was more than 15,000 to 20,000 years where it was stable weather.

00:22:29.000 Sea levels were like three, four meters higher than where they are today, but it wasn't like this.

00:22:35.000 It wasn't like the Pleistocene, it wasn't like the height of a glacial maximum where it's a difficult place to live.

00:22:42.000 It was a calm period.

00:22:43.000 I mean, the only reason our civilization is here today is because of the nice weather of the Holocene, right?

00:22:49.000 We have warm weather.

00:22:50.000 We haven't had massive catastrophes that have been extinction level events kind of thing to get in our way and knock us back to the Stone Age.

00:23:00.000 There was a similar period like that that lasted longer than we've been in this nice period, about 120,000 years ago.

00:23:06.000 And if you consider after that, the cycles of glaciation and flooding, then particularly the younger dryest, there'd been just almost nothing left.

00:23:12.000 It's just the stone in places that survived what happened afterwards.

00:23:17.000 So I do, my range of possibilities for, okay, when did these artifacts originate?

00:23:25.000 Like when did some of this architecture originally be built?

00:23:29.000 It's not to me just 15,000 years ago.

00:23:31.000 It could be 100,000, 200,000 years or even more.

00:23:35.000 And again, more contextual evidence to support that is things like the erosion that we can see on some of these sites.

00:23:42.000 One of my favorite topics in the last couple of years has been looking at the erosion on the Giza Plateau.

00:23:47.000 Yeah, I wanted to bring that up.

00:23:48.000 And of some of the big monuments, in particular, like the whole middle pyramid complex on the Giza Plateau.

00:23:54.000 Let's show some of the images that you used in some of your videos because it's pretty fascinating when you look at it.

00:24:00.000 It's kind of undeniable.

00:24:02.000 It is.

00:24:03.000 And what's fun about this is too, is that we don't have to guess, right?

00:24:07.000 We know how long it takes.

00:24:09.000 Studies have been done about limestone erosion.

00:24:13.000 Turns out there's almost an endless number of conveniently dated limestone slabs all around the world.

00:24:18.000 They're tombstones in cemeteries, right?

00:24:21.000 So you can, they get dated, they get cut, they get inscribed with the date when it was put up.

00:24:26.000 And then so you can measure it and you can come back over whatever, decades and measure erosion.

00:24:31.000 And so how long does it take for this face of this limestone erosion to recede?

00:24:36.000 This is the nutty stuff.

00:24:37.000 Yeah.

00:24:38.000 Because we're assuming that unless something happened to the outside of that, that this was at one point in time flat and smooth.

00:24:44.000 Yeah, 100%, because there are still blocks that are protected.

00:24:47.000 So a lot of this has been rebuilt.

00:24:49.000 So you can actually see that the less eroded sections are actually modern restorations because this is so eroded that it's falling apart.

00:24:49.000 This is tricky to see.

00:24:58.000 And this isn't even the exterior of the structure.

00:25:01.000 This is the interior core masonry.

00:25:03.000 All of this was also, for God knows how many thousands of years, encased in granite.

00:25:07.000 It also points to a trend.

00:25:10.000 It points to a pattern that when human beings find ancient things, they do renovations to try to keep them apart.

00:25:17.000 Yeah.

00:25:18.000 Which is one of the things that's been canonical.

00:25:21.000 Yeah, over and over and over again.

00:25:22.000 We've talked about that.

00:25:23.000 There's so many structures that seem like there's multiple timelines working on the same exact ground.

00:25:29.000 It is 100% a human tendency to renovate and restore all of these, to reuse these sites in a gross way, like what they do with the Sphinx, like the pause.

00:25:39.000 That's gross.

00:25:40.000 It is.

00:25:40.000 But we're renovating it and restoring it to use it as a tourist attraction.

00:25:44.000 Like the Romans renovated and restored it to use as a ceremonial center.

00:25:47.000 But it's a very shitty version.

00:25:49.000 Oh, I agree.

00:25:50.000 The original.

00:25:51.000 Yeah, I agree.

00:25:52.000 And there's a lot of assumptions.

00:25:53.000 You're assuming you knew the form of it.

00:25:55.000 You're making your own form over the feet.

00:25:57.000 Yes, that was one of my problems.

00:25:59.000 They were talking about restoring the middle pyramid, like the third pyramid, like the Menkara pyramid, the small one.

00:26:04.000 Yeah.

00:26:05.000 It's monstrous.

00:26:05.000 Small.

00:26:06.000 But it has these granite casing stones, right?

00:26:08.000 And the last of the top four or five courses are still there, but it was at least 15, 16 courses of granite.

00:26:13.000 And there's just all this granite, these massive granite blocks and rubble.

00:26:17.000 And Mustafa Waziri, who was at the time the head of the Department of Antiquities, was talking about, we're going to rebuild it.

00:26:23.000 We're going to put it back together.

00:26:25.000 And I know this.

00:26:26.000 And I'm like, please, no, because what an asshole.

00:26:29.000 Well, he did something cool, which was he excavated in front of it.

00:26:33.000 He did show that the courses keep going down.

00:26:36.000 But then he's like, we're going to restore it.

00:26:37.000 I'm like, dude, they would use concrete.

00:26:39.000 It would be a facimile of what it once was.

00:26:41.000 Is he still around?

00:26:42.000 No, he actually, because he said that, there was a lot of international outcry for that very reason.

00:26:49.000 And then, in fact, the government formed a tribunal to figure out what to do.

00:26:53.000 The tribunal was headed by Zahi Was, and he lost his job.

00:26:56.000 So he's not in that.

00:26:59.000 Restore pyramids, bro.

00:27:00.000 That's crazy.

00:27:01.000 Nobody wants to see the restored pyramids.

00:27:02.000 I'm all seeing what's left.

00:27:04.000 Yes.

00:27:05.000 Well, we can use our imaginations to, they are restoring a lot of things.

00:27:09.000 I don't necessarily agree with this either.

00:27:10.000 Things that are actively falling apart, sure, you need to buttress them.

00:27:13.000 Like a lot of this wall.

00:27:15.000 So this is part of the Middle Pyramid complex at Giza, and there's a lot of blocks like this.

00:27:20.000 There are limestone blocks that are 11, 12 meters long, like four meters wide, you know, two, three hundred tons that were stacked up on top of each other and they eroded so greatly on the inside that they've actually fallen over at some point in antiquity.

00:27:34.000 They've fallen off.

00:27:35.000 And so they are trying to buttress and support things that are going to fall.

00:27:39.000 I'm all for that.

00:27:41.000 But I mean, there's a lot, just the amount of erosion that it takes for that to happen to blocks like this, of this pneumolytic limestone, which is a very hard form of limestone, full of fossils.

00:27:53.000 And you're talking like two, three feet in some places of erosion of limestone.

00:27:58.000 And if you look at the studies that have been done into like limestone erosion rates, and there's been several, they've studied them in coastal wave action environments where it's like getting battered by waves.

00:28:08.000 They put in rivers.

00:28:09.000 You know, they put limestone cubes on the top of one of the governmental buildings in DC and left it there and studied it over decades.

00:28:16.000 And they're like, okay, it's tiny amounts.

00:28:18.000 But in a normal weathering environment, right, this is assuming a lot more rainfall than what happens in Egypt, which gets very little rainfall, by the way.

00:28:27.000 But a place like Washington, D.C., or somewhere where you get like 40 inches of rain a year, something like that, it would take just normal weathering erosion to do two feet of erosion like this more than 100,000 years.

00:28:45.000 And so, and that's, I think you can extend that because if, well, the thing is, maybe there was more rainfall here at some point.

00:28:52.000 We know there was after since about 4,000 BC, the African humid period was in place.

00:28:59.000 That's another big, I think, tell for what happened, particularly on the Giza Plateau and the sites in Egypt.

00:29:07.000 In that, you know, one of the things that always mystified me about the Sphinx is like it's spent so much time buried in sand up to its chest over the last several thousand years, more time than it hasn't been.

00:29:18.000 We have to work pretty hard to keep the sand out of it now.

00:29:20.000 In fact, there were multiple attempts to dig it out of the sand in the 1800s that failed.

00:29:25.000 And then they just literally two or three years later, it's sort of buried up to its chest again.

00:29:30.000 Seems like a design flaw.

00:29:32.000 Like, why would you build this thing in a low spot in a windy desert where it's going to fill with sand?

00:29:37.000 It's just, I don't think.

00:29:38.000 Who's it attributed to again?

00:29:39.000 Kafra.

00:29:40.000 That's right.

00:29:41.000 And then wasn't there an inscription where Khafra said that if he could uncover the Sphinx, he would be the Pharaoh?

00:29:48.000 This is right.

00:29:49.000 It's actually Thutmosis IV.

00:29:51.000 That's called a stelae in front of the chest in there in the Sphinx.

00:29:55.000 So Thutmosis IV about a thousand years later.

00:29:58.000 So he was the one that was saying if he uncovered it.

00:30:00.000 So we knew it was buried in sand during the dynastic Egyptian.

00:30:04.000 That was what I was going to get to.

00:30:05.000 Yes.

00:30:05.000 So that's the, so during that time, no erosion.

00:30:09.000 Well, this is a whole, yes, so there's a whole other post.

00:30:13.000 Right.

00:30:13.000 So this is another big issue with the wind and sand erosion.

00:30:17.000 When you talk specifically about the Sphinx enclosure, I mean, this is one of the big controversial, I mean, for example, the face is an eroded.

00:30:26.000 Exactly.

00:30:26.000 And if it's wind and sand, that's the only thing that's exposed.

00:30:29.000 And that's not as eroded.

00:30:30.000 It's been one of my major points for a long time.

00:30:32.000 It is, to be fair, it is, the yarding, the sedimentary layers of limestone, it is a slightly harder form of limestone, but still, you're talking thousands and thousands of years where the only thing above the sand level was basically the face.

00:30:47.000 And it's then, and they explain all of this deep erosion on the body of the Sphinx and the Sphinx enclosure to wind and sand.

00:30:53.000 I know, obviously, Robert Schock is a different interpretation.

00:30:56.000 But yes, you would see erosion on that.

00:30:58.000 You just don't.

00:30:59.000 I think the most plausible explanation for that Sphinx is that, yes, the face was recarved in the dynastic period, probably could have been by Kufra.

00:31:09.000 Actually, may well have been before that as well, because there's other evidence that suggests that the Sphinx was already buried in sand at his time.

00:31:19.000 The attribution to Kufra comes from two main sources.

00:31:23.000 One is its position.

00:31:24.000 So where the Sphinx is, you have the middle pyramid, you have the causeway that runs down, and you have the middle pyramid, you have the pyramid temple, the complex where we were seeing that erosion.

00:31:33.000 You have this massive causeway that runs down to then the valley temple, which is this very famous, massive megalithic structure.

00:31:40.000 And right next to the valley temple is the Sphinx.

00:31:42.000 And in front of that is the Sphinx Temple.

00:31:44.000 So they sort of attribute it and make it, well, it's part of the Middle Pyramid complex.

00:31:48.000 The other attribution comes from what's been written on that dream stela between the legs of the Sphinx at its chest.

00:31:56.000 It does say Kufra on there, but there's a lot of, it's a controversial statement to say that that means Kufra built it.

00:32:04.000 There were several Egyptologists who had different, and this is back in the early 1900s, they had different interpretations for what that said.

00:32:13.000 What they believe it said was Kufra was trying to do what his ancestors had done before, or that Thutmosis was trying to do what his ancestors had done before.

00:32:23.000 And Kufra is mentioned there in terms of dig it out of the sand and become king.

00:32:28.000 Like excavate it from the sand.

00:32:30.000 That's the move that everybody goes through.

00:32:32.000 Well, I think it's propaganda.

00:32:33.000 It could be a great explanation for that dream style.

00:32:36.000 It could also just be like governmental propaganda, right?

00:32:38.000 So you could put that in there and say, see, I'm divinely ordained to be king because I dug this out of the sand.

00:32:44.000 Just in the interest.

00:32:45.000 Yeah, just in the interest of keeping this standalone, please explain to people the whole deal with Dr. Robert Schock from Boston University and the water erosion.

00:32:54.000 Yes.

00:32:54.000 I know, and if you've heard this before, I'm sorry.

00:32:56.000 I just want it for people that are like, what?

00:32:58.000 The water erosion that appears to be thousands of years of rainfall.

00:33:01.000 Yeah, it's actually good.

00:33:02.000 It's good background context because it does apply to not only the Sphinx.

00:33:06.000 It's the most famous example, I think, and well-known example of, again, an adjacent field of science coming in and challenging some of the doctrine that's been around Egyptology.

00:33:17.000 But it was actually Schwaler de Lubitz, who originally, I think, proposed it.

00:33:21.000 His work was followed up by John Anthony West, who then brought Dr. Robert Schock, who's a professor of geology at Boston University, to the Sphinx.

00:33:30.000 This was, I believe, the late 80s, early 90s.

00:33:33.000 And he went and looked at the erosional patterns.

00:33:35.000 So the Sphinx sits inside an enclosure.

00:33:37.000 It's carved from bedrock.

00:33:38.000 So it was originally what you would call a yardang, which is like a limestone outcropping.

00:33:42.000 And so they cut down in this big enclosure and they cut the floor and then they sort of shaped the Sphinx from this natural outcropping of bedrock.

00:33:51.000 So you had, and we know this because the structure next to the Sphinx or in front of it called the Sphinx Temple is actually, you can line up the sedimentary layers of the blocks that are in there from the Sphinx enclosure.

00:34:02.000 So we know that there were blocks taken from here.

00:34:04.000 So this is all predictably sort of cut walls and the Sphinx would have been nicely finished when it was.

00:34:10.000 And he looked at these patterns.

00:34:11.000 If you go there today, I think I have pictures of the walls of the Sphinx enclosure in there.

00:34:16.000 And it's just these deeply eroded vertical channels.

00:34:19.000 And the Sphinx body is harder to tell because it's been restored so many times.

00:34:23.000 The ancient Egyptians restored it.

00:34:25.000 The Romans restored it.

00:34:26.000 We restored it a couple different times.

00:34:30.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:34:32.000 But the nice thing is the walls of the enclosure really haven't been touched.

00:34:35.000 So you can see the natural erosive patterns.

00:34:38.000 And he looked at that and went, that's rainfall erosion.

00:34:40.000 But not just some rainfall erosion, literally the result of thousands of years.

00:34:45.000 The only way you would get these patterns in the stone is with thousands of years of rainfall erosion.

00:34:50.000 Obviously, geysers are really, really dry.

00:34:52.000 I mean, Egypt's a really dry place these days.

00:34:54.000 You have to go back to time periods pre-4000 BC when the Sahara was a savannah.

00:35:02.000 It was grasslands with lake basins and river systems, and it had a lot more rain.

00:35:07.000 You didn't have this annual flood cycle that you have now.

00:35:13.000 It was like a lot more rainfall.

00:35:14.000 It was much more verdant and green.

00:35:16.000 The Giza Plateau would have been green.

00:35:18.000 Which makes sense that that's why they would settle there in the first place.

00:35:21.000 Exactly.

00:35:22.000 Yeah, they didn't build it in a desert.

00:35:24.000 I mean, you wouldn't, because it would fill up with sand.

00:35:26.000 It also makes sense why they would flourish because they had so much resources because it was so green and fertile.

00:35:31.000 Right.

00:35:32.000 Probably had plenty of plants, plenty of animals.

00:35:34.000 Well, there's a really other good point associated with that that I wanted to bring up.

00:35:39.000 But first, just to finish on the Sphinx erosion, so when Schock came out and said this, he really thought he was moving the story forward.

00:35:47.000 And he took it to an archaeological conference and they literally laughed him out of the room.

00:35:50.000 And they said, this is ridiculous.

00:35:54.000 Like, where are the potsherds?

00:35:55.000 Was I think Mark Lanner's comment saying, like, where's the evidence that something's at least 12,000 years ago?

00:36:00.000 Mocking.

00:36:00.000 Mocking them.

00:36:01.000 Yeah, so he got a good taste of the, I guess, the old boy network, the archaeologist on that day.

00:36:07.000 But he's, you know, he's being very conservative in that dating also of saying, well, 12,000 years, it could well be tens of thousands of years.

00:36:15.000 And in fact, it seems more likely to me based on the erosional evidence that we see not only in the Sphinx enclosure, but elsewhere on the Giza Plateau.

00:36:24.000 There's many places where you see just a huge amount of erosion that you can't really explain within the timelines and the climate of dynastic Egypt as we know it from roughly 3,000 BC till even now, because it's still eroding, right?

00:36:41.000 But yeah, it could be vastly more ancient.

00:36:45.000 I actually think there's something else that came out, was it earlier this year?

00:36:50.000 I think it was much earlier this year or maybe late last year.

00:36:53.000 But there was a study done that showed that during the African humid period, so this period of time before the desertification of Egypt, the Sahara becoming a desert, when it was green and there was more consistent rainfall, there was obviously a lot more water in the Nile, as we call it, and it had different channels.

00:37:12.000 One of the things they discovered was that there was a branch of the river Nile, and it's called the Aramat branch.

00:37:18.000 And it was in places up to a kilometer or most of a mile wide.

00:37:22.000 So it was quite an extensive branch.

00:37:24.000 But it turns out that all of these valley temples on all of these pyramid sites from Dashur and Saqqara, Abyssya, Abu Ghraab, Giza, all of those valley temples were built on the shores of this extinct branch of the Nile.

00:37:40.000 So it's like pyramid comp, you know, pyramids, when you look at a pyramid, it's not just a pyramid, there's a whole complex associated with it.

00:37:47.000 There's a temple, there's a structure at the pyramid, there's a causeway, there's what they call valley temples down.

00:37:53.000 And it's like these were all built on the shorelines of this branch of the Nile that went basically disappeared somewhere between 4,000 and 3,500 BC, but it was in place for thousands and thousands of years before that.

00:38:08.000 And today, if you go there and they say, well, you know, the valley temple, yep, they would ship the stones from Aswan and it'd be like three months of the year it would flood enough where you can get a boat.

00:38:17.000 I mean, I've seen pictures.

00:38:19.000 There are pictures of when that flood happened before they built the dam and stopped that process.

00:38:24.000 And it's, in some years, it's a puddle.

00:38:26.000 Like, there's not, I mean, you're talking about boats that were carrying hundreds of tons of granite.

00:38:31.000 And only in a three-month period of year can you get them in there?

00:38:34.000 There's many, there would be many years where there's not even remotely enough water to get it anywhere near the valley temples.

00:38:40.000 I don't think they even use boats.

00:38:42.000 I know, I don't either.

00:38:43.000 It sounds crazy to say, but I think they had a technology that we haven't even begun to mess with yet.

00:38:50.000 The logistical achievements of the ancient Egypt, of what is represented in ancient Egypt is like nothing you can see anywhere.

00:39:00.000 I mean, there's Baalbek, and then there's, to me, the best example is the statue at Tannis.

00:39:07.000 There's a statue.

00:39:07.000 I mean, there's several of these thousand-plus-ton statues.

00:39:12.000 Like half a dozen of them.

00:39:13.000 You get remnants of them.

00:39:14.000 But there was one that was moved a thousand kilometers.

00:39:19.000 A thousand kilometers.

00:39:20.000 And it would have been, it was a single piece granite statue, easily a thousand tons.

00:39:24.000 Show that image, Jamie, if you would, please.

00:39:27.000 I think it's giant objects in there or something.

00:39:30.000 And this is Tannis in the Delta, Aswan down here at the quarry.

00:39:36.000 I mean, downstream on the Nile, there's another example of the one at Karnak that's the whole shoulder and arm of a composite quartzite, again, gigantic, size of the Statue of Liberty, basically.

00:39:48.000 Like single-piece granite solid statue.

00:39:50.000 I mean, there's all these pieces.

00:39:52.000 That's a small one.

00:39:53.000 Which is insane.

00:39:55.000 Look at the people in the background and say that's a small one.

00:39:57.000 Yeah, it's only 200 tons.

00:39:59.000 I mean, it's 250 maybe.

00:40:01.000 It's not.

00:40:02.000 You have them 10 times almost that size.

00:40:04.000 The crazy thing is also how beautiful it is.

00:40:07.000 Like how symmetrical it is.

00:40:09.000 The workmanship on these is astonishing.

00:40:12.000 And you can still feel, like, this is one of the signs, I think.

00:40:15.000 When you get to the finishing on some of these statues, that's a giant kneecap.

00:40:21.000 There's one with an arm and a shoulder sort of poking out.

00:40:24.000 That's a really good example.

00:40:26.000 That's Baalbeck.

00:40:27.000 The point is, when you talk about how beautiful, like how that one that's lying down, Jamie, there's a back one, a couple.

00:40:35.000 That one.

00:40:36.000 Yeah.

00:40:36.000 Look at the finishing on that.

00:40:38.000 Like how incredible.

00:40:40.000 You see his nipple.

00:40:41.000 You can see all the, you know what I mean?

00:40:43.000 Thousands of years later.

00:40:44.000 You see the detail on the headdress.

00:40:46.000 You see all, and then you have to realize, like, this was done with people that didn't have steel.

00:40:51.000 Yeah, and you can see.

00:40:52.000 Supposedly.

00:40:53.000 Right.

00:40:54.000 I mean, yeah, later periods, like in the New Kingdom, they had some more iron, not necessarily steel.

00:41:00.000 But you notice something else here.

00:41:01.000 Like, see that cartouche?

00:41:03.000 See how poor that is relative to the finishing of the face and the chest.

00:41:08.000 So this is the other thing that happened.

00:41:10.000 This is why no one's sort of like you don't get archaeologists saying, well, there's statues.

00:41:15.000 We don't know who made it.

00:41:16.000 We know who made it because they put their name on.

00:41:18.000 That is literally Ramses II's cartouche right there.

00:41:20.000 I recognize it anyway.

00:41:22.000 That's awesome that you recognize that.

00:41:24.000 If you come to Egypt, you'll recognize it too.

00:41:29.000 Petrie called Ramses II the great usurper because he put his name on fucking everything.

00:41:35.000 And he carved it in deep like this, too.

00:41:37.000 He would have it be him and his father, Seti I and his son Marinpata, they were all in that business of rebadging some of this stuff.

00:41:47.000 So they would find old things and they would put their name on it.

00:41:49.000 They would claim it for themselves.

00:41:51.000 I think it's the nature of, I mean, during that period in the New Kingdom, in the 19th dynasty, you know.

00:41:58.000 It's all, I did this, all me.

00:42:00.000 Yeah, it was the height of dynastic Egyptians, Egypt's power and wealth. 0.99

00:42:05.000 So they had all of this, I think, hubris and arrogance to make themselves one of the gods.

00:42:13.000 And it's one of the, I think, these statues, there's a lot to unpack in these because I also happen to think that when you look at these massive statues, you can't really explain with the capabilities of the dynastic Egyptians.

00:42:26.000 I think it also explains their iconography because if they inherited these giant statues, like it's those are the gods.

00:42:34.000 Like you're looking at this.

00:42:35.000 Imagine a statue the size of the Statue of Liberty standing out in the desert and it's just sitting there looking at you with this face.

00:42:42.000 And the craftsmanship on these are amazing.

00:42:44.000 You can kind of see it here.

00:42:45.000 You see how the eyeballs are like tilted down almost?

00:42:48.000 And it looks like a smile on the face from here.

00:42:51.000 But it's perspective.

00:42:52.000 When you stand beneath them and you look up at them, they're looking at you.

00:42:57.000 And it's not a smile.

00:42:59.000 It's just like a straight line.

00:43:00.000 It looks straight.

00:43:01.000 They've shaped these faces for perspective as if you're viewing them from the ground.

00:43:06.000 They're absolutely incredible.

00:43:07.000 And there's also been studies done on some of these to show the faces are pretty much perfectly symmetrical.

00:43:12.000 Again, that's crazy.

00:43:13.000 Not something that you can achieve.

00:43:15.000 Or not something that's done in modern artwork.

00:43:18.000 The perfect symmetry.

00:43:19.000 It's not even a characteristic of a human face.

00:43:22.000 Like we aren't like that.

00:43:23.000 Our nostrils are different sizes and whatever.

00:43:26.000 Because we're hybrids.

00:43:29.000 We could be.

00:43:30.000 We're imperfect.

00:43:31.000 We're imperfect beings, Joe.

00:43:33.000 I think they made us.

00:43:35.000 I think they made us.

00:43:36.000 I think something came here from somewhere else or something was already here.

00:43:40.000 Intervention theory.

00:43:41.000 Did something with lower hominids?

00:43:44.000 Have you read Lloyd Pye's work?

00:43:46.000 Never heard of it, but I haven't read any of it.

00:43:48.000 It's everything you think you know is wrong.

00:43:49.000 Fun lecture.

00:43:50.000 Rest in peace, Lloyd.

00:43:53.000 And there's some interesting genetic evidence that I think suggests that as a possibility, our chromosomal difference between us and other mammals of our type.

00:44:02.000 Almost like we've had these, the tellurides have been attached.

00:44:05.000 We've been genetically engineered.

00:44:06.000 Greg Braden talks about that.

00:44:08.000 Yeah, we have some real strange characteristics for being on this planet.

00:44:13.000 Like we die of exposure at 80 degrees in the shade.

00:44:16.000 We can't look at the sun.

00:44:17.000 You ever see dogs?

00:44:18.000 You've got a dog stare at the sun like this.

00:44:20.000 You're like, what are you doing?

00:44:21.000 Like, I'm fine.

00:44:22.000 Why can't you do that?

00:44:23.000 You can't even see at night.

00:44:24.000 We have no benefit of night vision.

00:44:27.000 It's interesting also when they look at all these other versions of humans that they find.

00:44:31.000 Almost all of them were more durable.

00:44:33.000 Oh, broomsticks to axe handles durable.

00:44:36.000 Like it's multiple gaps of.

00:44:39.000 But isn't that kind of in the Bible?

00:44:40.000 Doesn't the Bible say the meek shall inherit the earth? 1.00

00:44:43.000 Well, we're the meek when it comes to.

00:44:44.000 It's like we're the meek.

00:44:45.000 Yeah, we're just the meanest, maybe.

00:44:46.000 We're the meanest.

00:44:47.000 We're the meanest and the trickiest because we had to be, which is like all animals.

00:44:52.000 When, you know, you have to, you're small.

00:44:54.000 Like, hyenas are fucking ruthless.

00:44:56.000 Oh, yeah.

00:44:57.000 The reason why they're ruthless is because lions are bigger.

00:44:59.000 They had to figure it out.

00:45:01.000 You know, they had to just be fucking mean and nasty.

00:45:03.000 And I think we probably wiped out or interbred with everything that wasn't us. 0.97

00:45:10.000 And that's a wrap.

00:45:12.000 Sorry, your big bones don't work on arrows. 0.90

00:45:12.000 Sorry. 0.90

00:45:15.000 Yes.

00:45:16.000 You dummies didn't figure out catapults yet. 0.97

00:45:18.000 Guerrilla tactics.

00:45:19.000 Yeah.

00:45:19.000 Guerrilla tactics, technology.

00:45:21.000 I mean, I think that's also probably one of the reasons why we're so obsessed with making better stuff, including weapons.

00:45:27.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:45:28.000 Yeah, I think so.

00:45:29.000 I mean, there is, I don't rule out the.

00:45:32.000 I mean, personally, my opinion, I think there's a either via panspermia or intervention theory like that, where we've been, there is a huge mystery as to both our species and then how life itself kind of kicked off.

00:45:48.000 Like that's even panspermia is like kicking the can down the road problem.

00:45:52.000 Like how do you, how does DNA happen?

00:45:53.000 Because one of the most interesting things to me is like DNA as a technology has never changed, right?

00:45:59.000 So from single-cell organisms right down through to us, the way life is expressed as a technology, DNA, like how it expresses life has changed, but DNA, I don't think has changed.

00:46:11.000 Like it's like this one way that life expresses itself and how it forms is like the actual origins of life.

00:46:17.000 It's DOS.

00:46:18.000 It's DOS.

00:46:20.000 It is human operating system.

00:46:23.000 Life loss, life operating system, something like that.

00:46:26.000 What is your take on those tridactyl mummy?

00:46:30.000 I don't know.

00:46:32.000 I think there's.

00:46:33.000 Did you see Jesse Michaels' episode on it?

00:46:36.000 Not all of it.

00:46:36.000 I've seen some of it.

00:46:37.000 The scans.

00:46:38.000 You see the scans?

00:46:39.000 Yeah, I saw some of the information.

00:46:39.000 I've seen the scans.

00:46:42.000 I don't want to get tricked.

00:46:43.000 So I'm like, but Jesse said that seeing them in person, I just talked to him about it.

00:46:47.000 He said it was otherworldly.

00:46:49.000 He said it was incredibly strange, like very, very surreal seeing them in person because it really does feel like it's a different species.

00:46:59.000 Like you're looking at some different species.

00:47:01.000 My take on that stuff is, honestly, it's like, sure.

00:47:06.000 To me, the whole alien other life in the universe was settled.

00:47:12.000 I mean, it's a mathematical certainty.

00:47:14.000 Like, I just, the Kepler mission showed it.

00:47:16.000 Like it's a mathematical certainty that life has to exist in other places on the planet in some form.

00:47:23.000 In some form.

00:47:24.000 And then you multiply that out across the span of space and time.

00:47:29.000 Is it possible that we're being busy?

00:47:30.000 Is there something to these phenomena?

00:47:31.000 Yes.

00:47:32.000 I think so.

00:47:33.000 It doesn't.

00:47:35.000 I'm skeptical that we'll ever really, I hope maybe my lifetime will know, but would it change what I'm doing if we had that realization?

00:47:43.000 Not particularly, I don't think.

00:47:45.000 It's just like we could be part of the Galactic Federation.

00:47:47.000 I'd be like, oh, that's cool.

00:47:48.000 I think it'll give additional perspective.

00:47:50.000 Like, let's go way out there and put that fucking tinfoil hat on tight.

00:47:56.000 If they open up the labyrinth, if they figure out a way to drain the water and they do find out that that 40-meter-long metallic thing is something from another planet.

00:48:06.000 Multidimensional.

00:48:07.000 Something from another place.

00:48:08.000 Or maybe break up civilization.

00:48:11.000 You know, there's a lot of people that think that there were, like, there's us, and then there's Neanderthals, right?

00:48:17.000 And then there's, okay, they all coexisted at one point in time.

00:48:21.000 What if this thing coexisted with us as well?

00:48:23.000 And this is a different version of what we will eventually be.

00:48:28.000 Just like, let's imagine human beings we maintain a presence on this earth for the next 30 million years.

00:48:35.000 Let's just imagine that.

00:48:37.000 Could be crazy, but it's happened before with crocodiles.

00:48:40.000 If we did, what would chimpanzees be like 30 million years from now?

00:48:44.000 Evolution wouldn't stop, right?

00:48:45.000 Right.

00:48:45.000 It's not going to stop.

00:48:46.000 They're already using tools, right?

00:48:48.000 There's speculation.

00:48:49.000 I mean, there's various scientists that believe that you can make an argument that many primates are in the Stone Age.

00:48:57.000 Yeah.

00:48:58.000 That they've entered into the Stone Age.

00:48:59.000 So let's assume that this keeps moving in that general direction without our intervention, which I'm assuming some foreign countries probably would engage in that, and one of them might be America.

00:49:13.000 Secretly, if we're doing this gain of function research on viruses that wind up killing a million people, you don't think that we're going to, if there's some sort of a, look, there was talk during the, I believe it was World War II, where Russia was, there was talk of some sort of a hybrid between a human being and a chimpanzee and trying to devise that for soldiers.

00:49:38.000 Yeah.

00:49:38.000 Yes.

00:49:39.000 Real, right?

00:49:40.000 It's real.

00:49:41.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:49:41.000 There's some very strange and interesting experiments that happened in that period of time.

00:49:46.000 So what if those little fuckers – Kept going? 1.00

00:49:48.000 What if those little fuckers are like the OGs? 1.00

00:49:52.000 Like they're us, like a million years from now.

00:49:55.000 And what we are, you know, the chimps are a million years later.

00:49:59.000 That's what we are right now currently.

00:49:59.000 Right.

00:50:01.000 They are what we're going to be.

00:50:03.000 Yeah.

00:50:03.000 And then they went, fuck it, we're going in the ocean.

00:50:06.000 Right.

00:50:07.000 Well, fuck, right.

00:50:08.000 Yes.

00:50:09.000 That's a possibility.

00:50:10.000 In fact, the breakaway civilization concept's not a new one either.

00:50:14.000 Like a lot of ancient cultures looked at places like even the moon as a refuge.

00:50:20.000 They would call it a refuge.

00:50:21.000 Like that's a whole other theory.

00:50:22.000 Like what's going on with the moon?

00:50:25.000 Is there something happening up there?

00:50:27.000 Was there something that happened with it in the past?

00:50:29.000 Right.

00:50:30.000 Yeah.

00:50:30.000 I mean, this is, it's, it's, to me, the whole, it's all of these things are completely plausible.

00:50:36.000 Like, I just, I don't, I tridactyls or the, yeah, I mean, the, the UFO phenomena, I mean, this could have been going on for a long, long time.

00:50:48.000 I certainly would include some sort of otherworldly craft as potentially one of the explanations for what that thing is beneath the ground at the labyrinth.

00:50:57.000 Well, even if it's not anotherworld of craft, whatever the fuck was going on where someone could make a 40-meter-long metallic thing thousands and thousands and thousands of years ago.

00:51:08.000 40 meters is half of a damn football field.

00:51:11.000 Yeah, it's big.

00:51:12.000 That's big.

00:51:13.000 And stick it underground for some reason.

00:51:14.000 Yeah, right.

00:51:15.000 In a corridor or in a huge atrium?

00:51:17.000 Yeah.

00:51:17.000 Okay.

00:51:18.000 All bets are off.

00:51:18.000 Like what?

00:51:19.000 If what those Italian scientists are saying is underneath the Giza Plateau, all bets are off.

00:51:25.000 You're looking at something that is like as kooky as the pyramids are, that's the tip of the iceberg.

00:51:30.000 True.

00:51:31.000 Yeah, and that's why I wanted the labyrinth was so interesting because their announcements around what they, these 800-meter shafts and massive cubes kilometers deep under the plateau is kind of came out of nowhere.

00:51:43.000 But there are these accounts for these other places like the labyrinth where there's some like historical legitimacy to them.

00:51:51.000 Like there's been accounts of them.

00:51:53.000 Although, you know, over time, what they're talking about beneath the Giza Plateau, maybe not to the full extent of what they're saying, I'm still having trouble with that, but there's certainly a lot more.

00:52:06.000 We know there's a lot more down there, right?

00:52:08.000 That we, at least the public, has never discovered.

00:52:12.000 We know that there are, so beneath the bottom of the Asira shaft, for example, we know that there are further tunnels that go off from there that go underneath it.

00:52:20.000 The Asira Shaft, for people who don't know, is one of the, it's like a, there's three passages, like three rooms, and it goes down a little over 100 feet or so beneath the ground, beneath the causeway on the middle pyramid complex.

00:52:33.000 You go down this big ladder, you go into one room, you go down another ladder, there's a bigger room with boxes in it, and you go down a further ladder to the bottom room, which also has boxes in it.

00:52:43.000 Today it's the water tables way up high.

00:52:46.000 But we know in the past, this is one of the things that has recently come to light, is that down there in the bottom in the 1990s, that was scanned with ground-penetrating radar at the bottom level.

00:52:58.000 And they found, yep, there are actually like four meter long, eight feet high tunnels with dome ceilings below that, even further, that nobody, as far as we know, have ever explored.

00:53:09.000 There are also tunnels leading off from that bottom level that head off towards the Sphinx and they head off towards the pyramid.

00:53:16.000 And in fact, they fork because there was a little known exploration done by a team of Japanese scientists in the early 2000s that got like a camera on a long pole and they shoved it down through the mud and they stuffed it about 20 meters into one of these tunnels and they found these man-made structures, like tunnels, and it forks and it actually forks off and one seems to head towards the Great Pyramid and one keeps going up towards Khufra.

00:53:40.000 So there's tons of stuff below there.

00:53:42.000 In fact, if you ever go to the Giza Plateau, that causeway, if you're heading up towards the middle pyramid, you've got the Asara shaft on the left, but on the right, you have, I mean, 10 of these massive shafts that we don't really know how deep they are or whether or not they've ever been fully excavated.

00:53:59.000 But they just go way down into the ground.

00:54:01.000 So this could be like, you know, it's like the very top layer of things that are being claimed by the Italian scientists and their scans.

00:54:10.000 But there was, we know that these tunnels extend down to beneath the Sphinx, for example.

00:54:17.000 Like there's long been rumored that there's a tunnel, an entrance at the back of the Sphinx.

00:54:21.000 In fact, if you go there, there's a little box and a little hole.

00:54:24.000 It doesn't go anywhere.

00:54:25.000 I've stuck a camera in there and had a look.

00:54:27.000 But this is what happened in the 1990s.

00:54:30.000 So, you know, John Anthony West, I'm sure you've seen The Mysteries of the Sphinx, right?

00:54:34.000 Super famous documentary.

00:54:35.000 Yeah, I know he has, but you've seen his work on the story.

00:54:37.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:54:38.000 Wonderful documentary, Charlton Hestrom.

00:54:40.000 Charlton Heston, yeah.

00:54:41.000 That's when that archaeologist is mocking.

00:54:44.000 Yes.

00:54:44.000 Graham Hancock and John Anthony West.

00:54:46.000 That's right.

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00:56:13.000 Yeah, so he produced he did that research, I think, in 1991, 1990, 1991.

00:56:19.000 It came out in John Anthony.

00:56:20.000 He actually won an Emmy for Best Documentary, I think, for it.

00:56:22.000 It was totally warranted.

00:56:25.000 But so he, as part of that work, had a guy named Tom DeBecky, who was a ground-penetrating radar expert.

00:56:30.000 And he did work around the Sphinx and he found the existence of like large regular chambers beneath the Sphinx.

00:56:36.000 And then when that documentary came out, I mean, allegedly, Zahi was incensed by it because it talked about Atlantis and it made the suggestion that this might be, you know, a hall of records.

00:56:47.000 It talked about Edgar Casey.

00:56:49.000 And he then denied after that, John Anthony West and Robert Schock any permits to do any further work.

00:56:55.000 But what's weird is that Zahi and Mark Lana have this long-standing connection with the Edgar Casey Foundation, which is like this weird dichotomy.

00:57:04.000 It's like on the public facing, they decry anything Atlantis based, but then on the private side, they seem to be enabling explorations by the ARE.

00:57:12.000 And in fact, they've been enabling the ARE to do drilling experiments and other things at the Sphinx since the late 1970s.

00:57:19.000 And there was an expedition, notorious one, that no one ever knew what happened.

00:57:24.000 It was called the Shore Expedition.

00:57:26.000 Dr. Joseph Shaw, Joseph Johodo, and then a guy named Boris Saeed were running this shore expedition.

00:57:32.000 And Boris Saeed was a friend of John Anthony West.

00:57:35.000 He was the executive producer for Mysteries of the Sphinx.

00:57:39.000 And this happened in like 95 through about 97, 1997.

00:57:44.000 And they partnered up with Zahi, gave them a five-year unlimited permit to do whatever they wanted up on the Giza Plateau.

00:57:52.000 And one of the stories that came out of that was a story.

00:57:55.000 So Boris Saeed, who unfortunately has also passed away since, but he talked about filming Zahi What?

00:58:01.000 He said, well, we got to the back of the Sphinx.

00:58:03.000 And he said, you know, we want to make another documentary like the Mysteries of the Sphinx.

00:58:07.000 And he said, well, what if we open up a tunnel that no one's ever opened up before?

00:58:10.000 And he's like, that'd be great.

00:58:11.000 What sort of tunnel?

00:58:12.000 He said, well, a tunnel under the Sphinx.

00:58:14.000 And Boris Seed said, that'd be fantastic.

00:58:15.000 So I actually filmed him going into the rump of the Sphinx, standing down in there and saying, you know, the quote is something like, even Indiana Jones wouldn't believe that he was here.

00:58:25.000 We're standing inside the body of the Sphinx.

00:58:27.000 Nobody knows where this tunnel goes, but we're going to open it for the first time.

00:58:31.000 And he's down in this space with it, with basically a blocked up tunnel beneath the Sphinx.

00:58:37.000 And he filmed all of this, but then this footage all disappeared.

00:58:41.000 So during the expedition, it was kind of shut down.

00:58:44.000 And then they got into a legal dispute, like Boris Said and Joseph Shaw got into this battle.

00:58:49.000 The footage was never seen, but he went on Art Bell in the late 90s and talked about it.

00:58:54.000 And we're like, God, damn.

00:58:55.000 So this, you know, they also talked about they did stuff at the Osiris shaft.

00:58:58.000 They did that ground-penetrating radar work.

00:58:59.000 They did sonic experiments in the Great Pyramid.

00:59:01.000 There's a lot that happened at this Shaw expedition, run by the Ed.

00:59:05.000 They're all ARE members.

00:59:07.000 And the stated goal, Joseph Shaw, was always to find the Hall of Records, right?

00:59:12.000 I mean, this all continued into 2000s too with that organization.

00:59:17.000 But there was all this tantalizing mystery of this footage.

00:59:20.000 Like, where the fuck is this footage?

00:59:22.000 Apparently, the Department of Justice had a copy of it because there was this lawsuit that was going on.

00:59:27.000 And nobody knew.

00:59:28.000 So it's kind of out there.

00:59:30.000 And then it was only like earlier this year, it turns out that, so what happened?

00:59:34.000 So Boris Said was sick with liver cancer, but he was trying to raise funds to make this documentary.

00:59:40.000 So he put together this tape with some of this footage from this expedition.

00:59:44.000 And he was selling VHS copies of it as a way to invest in this documentary.

00:59:49.000 And then like a year later, he just, that's when he passed away.

00:59:52.000 So there's been a handful of these VHS tapes out there in random homes from the mid to late 90s, just sitting there with this tape.

01:00:00.000 And then eventually someone this year actually digitized it, put it up on YouTube as an unlisted video.

01:00:06.000 I found out about it.

01:00:08.000 And so all of a sudden, now we actually have this footage.

01:00:10.000 We have Zahi going into the Sphinx at the back saying yeah, if you, Jamie, if you pull up my, I think it's the latest or the couple latest videos about the rare footage found from the Sphinx, it opens with that footage.

01:00:26.000 Dude, thank God you're out there.

01:00:28.000 I'm so excited that you do this.

01:00:30.000 It means so much to me that you do this.

01:00:33.000 I love doing it.

01:00:34.000 It's fascinating.

01:00:34.000 I know you do.

01:00:35.000 I've known about this footage for years and years.

01:00:40.000 And I'm like, oh my God, somebody found it.

01:00:42.000 Yeah, this is it here.

01:00:43.000 So there's Zahi.

01:00:44.000 Yeah.

01:00:45.000 So he's going into this tunnel.

01:00:46.000 Yeah, so you can still, this still exists, but then this is, yeah, where he is now doesn't.

01:00:51.000 What happened?

01:00:52.000 Well, the story gets more and more intriguing.

01:00:55.000 So yeah, this is him saying the line saying, we've never opened this tunnel before.

01:00:59.000 We're in the body of the Sphinx and we're going to figure out where it goes.

01:01:03.000 So, yeah, so after that, so Boris, they filmed that.

01:01:08.000 This is the early days.

01:01:09.000 So yeah, I'm walking around the back here.

01:01:11.000 I think I poked my camera in there, but I talk about it later on.

01:01:16.000 So Boris Saeed, who had filmed this with Zahi, goes, he talks to them about, let's make a contract, let's have Zahi open the tunnel.

01:01:22.000 Like we'll make the documentary about him opening this tunnel and we're going to show it to the world, you know?

01:01:27.000 And they talked about it.

01:01:28.000 He went back to New York and he never heard from them again.

01:01:30.000 They never mentioned this contract.

01:01:32.000 Nothing.

01:01:32.000 He never had any further contact with Zahi about it.

01:01:35.000 And then funny thing happens in Egypt about, I don't know, eight, nine months later.

01:01:40.000 And this is, as reported by Robert Boval and Graham Hancock in their book, Heaven's Mirror.

01:01:45.000 And also I found it in the Arabic publications.

01:01:48.000 But about eight, I think it was six to eight months later, Zahi makes an announcement in El Aram and these Egyptian publications in Arabic that says, I've made this incredible discovery.

01:01:59.000 I've discovered tunnels and chambers beneath the Giza Plateau.

01:02:02.000 That's going to change everything we know about the ancient Egyptians and the pyramids.

01:02:07.000 And he talked about finding three tunnels, one that was like on the north, one on the south, and then one that was yet to be determined where it went.

01:02:16.000 And he made this announcement and then never said another word about it ever again.

01:02:23.000 Whoa.

01:02:24.000 And this is just in the Arabic papers.

01:02:27.000 And here's the funny thing, is.

01:02:29.000 But could it be because there's nothing there?

01:02:32.000 I suspect something else.

01:02:34.000 I suspect that even if there was nothing there, you'd still he would have stuck a camera in there and looked at it.

01:02:40.000 Suspect, I think it's more likely that, yeah, they found something that might have upset the apple cart and it doesn't get.

01:02:48.000 I can't imagine if they are sitting on information.

01:02:51.000 Oh, I think you think, yes, I do.

01:02:55.000 I think there's been plenty of excavations and discoveries that I think were inconvenient for one reason or the other that have probably never seen the light of day.

01:03:03.000 That's a crime against humanity.

01:03:05.000 A little bit.

01:03:05.000 I think so.

01:03:06.000 I mean, it's, you know, the funny thing that he's, what he said too when he's, when I read that comment he makes about three tunnels, that's that's that's what Al Adressi and El Masadi said as well.

01:03:20.000 Like this, these Herodotus of the Arabs, like six to eight hundred AD, when they went down, they described the same damn three tunnels, like chambers and rooms.

01:03:29.000 It's like lining up with these historical, same as the labyrinth.

01:03:31.000 Like it's lining up with these historical accounts, and then it's just you don't hear another word about it.

01:03:36.000 And when you go to the Sphinx today and you finally pop that little box off its butt, the whole thing's been backfilled.

01:03:43.000 Like the whole, where you see that camera, where Zahi was standing, that steel beam's still there, but where his head level is, where he's standing, hey, this tunnel goes, it's like the dirt level's here now.

01:03:54.000 Like it's all been backfilled.

01:03:55.000 That's so crazy.

01:03:56.000 Yeah.

01:03:57.000 That's so crazy.

01:03:57.000 Why would you do that if there wasn't something in there?

01:03:59.000 You would only do it if there's something in there.

01:04:01.000 Unless it caved in.

01:04:02.000 Yeah.

01:04:03.000 To be honest, it's my concern also with the Great Pyramid and the chamber there.

01:04:09.000 Is that I first of all have my suspicions that they may well have already taken a peek with an endoscopic camera into that hidden void.

01:04:16.000 So this is, you know, the scanner.

01:04:17.000 Does your suspicion based on anything in particular?

01:04:19.000 No, no.

01:04:19.000 I just, no, just just my experience with how they do things.

01:04:24.000 Yes.

01:04:25.000 So it's, there's always, I mean, I just, there's very little transparency when it comes to a lot of these digs and stuff.

01:04:31.000 And this isn't just the Egyptian. 0.78

01:04:33.000 This is, I think, I mean, it's not a criticism.

01:04:37.000 It's maybe more characteristic of archaeological digs everywhere.

01:04:40.000 Sometimes the way this works is you might have to wait 20 or 30 years or a decade for information to come out because then it has to get perfect.

01:04:49.000 If someone has to publish a paper, they sit on that information until that point, or maybe it never sees the light of day.

01:04:55.000 I mean, because it's inconvenient.

01:04:58.000 Well, I do think that, I mean, anything that's going to seriously upset the apple cart, like if they came out and found something that was, oh, damn, we found the Hall of Records.

01:05:09.000 You know, we found this evidence that is incontrovertible that suggests that there was a predecessor culture and a predecessor civilization to the ancient Egyptians.

01:05:19.000 I think there would be some long and hard thinking about whether or not we actually release that because it's going to make everybody look bad.

01:05:24.000 You know what I mean?

01:05:25.000 Like it upsets crazy, though, that make everybody look bad would be the motivation to keep one of the most important discoveries ever from the human race.

01:05:37.000 I agree.

01:05:37.000 Yes.

01:05:38.000 It's fucking nuts.

01:05:39.000 It is.

01:05:40.000 We're even thinking about this.

01:05:41.000 And I love your approach.

01:05:42.000 I think you're absolutely right, too.

01:05:44.000 Even if these figures, all they'd have to do is embrace it.

01:05:47.000 All they'd have to say is look at what we learned.

01:05:49.000 Yeah.

01:05:49.000 And everyone would be like, that's amazing.

01:05:51.000 And if it's still a Egyptians, it's Egyptians that go back 30,000 years or whatever it is. 0.90

01:05:56.000 Or more.

01:05:57.000 That's so crazy.

01:05:58.000 But also, wouldn't that excite more people to be more interested?

01:06:03.000 Wouldn't that increase the economy?

01:06:05.000 Wouldn't that increase the tourism?

01:06:06.000 It would increase everything.

01:06:08.000 It would make everybody more excited about archaeology.

01:06:08.000 Yes, it would.

01:06:12.000 I think you've got to embrace the mystery.

01:06:14.000 There was a trend towards squishing it for a while.

01:06:16.000 There's no way you could know everything.

01:06:18.000 It's not possible.

01:06:20.000 Especially when you're finding these new things.

01:06:22.000 It's clear you don't know everything.

01:06:24.000 If they're finding new things, you don't know everything.

01:06:26.000 If there's a 40-meter-long metallic object in a labyrinth, it's in a giant atrium that's under the fucking ground, you don't know everything.

01:06:34.000 Yeah, I think it's worth taking a look.

01:06:36.000 Yeah, I mean, let's at least take a look.

01:06:36.000 Geez, you think?

01:06:39.000 Let's drill like a hole.

01:06:40.000 Like, figure out, we know we're from the scan, kind of where it is.

01:06:42.000 Like, we were took a borehole down and we were talking before, you were saying that there might be a possibility of digging a tunnel under the water through to the bottom because the actual area where it is is not in the water.

01:06:53.000 That's so the scans seem to indicate it is likely free of water, is that is the terminology I heard from the scan interpretations?

01:07:01.000 It's true to say that the issue with the water at Hawara in the labyrinth is the groundwater.

01:07:07.000 So, it's this seepage that's coming in from the north.

01:07:09.000 And it's so presumably at some point you do get to a form of bedrock that may well be impermeable.

01:07:15.000 And if it's sealed and you're cut into that structure, then yeah, you may well be free of water or it might be, you know, it's sealed off the groundwater.

01:07:23.000 You can fuck up and let the water through the hole and try to dig a tunnel and flood that too.

01:07:28.000 For sure, some of it's in the water.

01:07:29.000 Like the upper levels of the labyrinth, so from the ground-penetrating radar scans at the Madahar expedition, I mean, you have these granite blocks that are like three, four meters wide and this huge labyrinthine structure.

01:07:39.000 That's sitting in, I mean, I'm sure it's full of sediment too.

01:07:42.000 Like, it's not like there may be some cavities and open, everyone's like, can we dive on them?

01:07:46.000 Like, it's full of, it's literally mud and sediment, a lot of it.

01:07:49.000 And that's sitting in this sort of salty, brackish groundwater that I suspect is not going to do great things to that granite if it's left for another 50, 100 years or more.

01:07:59.000 So there is a pressure to remediate this problem and I think to save what's down there.

01:08:06.000 The deeper layers, however, seem like there's a possibility that they're free of water.

01:08:11.000 Has there been any proposal to do that?

01:08:13.000 Is there any proposal to figure out a way to reroute the water?

01:08:17.000 So this is what I talked about in the video.

01:08:20.000 There were some studies that started to happen to try and do that.

01:08:23.000 And then the guy who was running the study got thrown in jail for talking about it.

01:08:27.000 Nothing since then.

01:08:28.000 Nothing since, as far as I know.

01:08:30.000 Tell Zahi he can come on again if he does it.

01:08:32.000 I'll have him back.

01:08:33.000 I'll mention it.

01:08:35.000 I would love to.

01:08:37.000 I mean, I think it's a solvable problem, though.

01:08:39.000 That's the thing.

01:08:39.000 We're going to get Zahi to do mushrooms.

01:08:41.000 That's what we have to do.

01:08:42.000 Yeah.

01:08:42.000 We'll have to get him to just drop it all.

01:08:43.000 It'd be interesting.

01:08:44.000 Cut the bullshit.

01:08:45.000 Become the sun god.

01:08:46.000 Yeah, no, I don't know.

01:08:46.000 Yeah, just let everybody love you for doing that because they would if we just changed, turned, turned a new page.

01:08:52.000 Yeah.

01:08:53.000 Just said, all right, let's just, let's go crazy.

01:08:55.000 I think, yes.

01:08:56.000 Yeah.

01:08:56.000 He's, yeah.

01:08:57.000 He wants to be loved.

01:08:58.000 He wants to be respected.

01:08:59.000 He does.

01:09:00.000 So open it up, baby.

01:09:00.000 Everybody does.

01:09:02.000 Let's go.

01:09:03.000 Give me a hug.

01:09:04.000 Open it up.

01:09:05.000 Start digging.

01:09:06.000 Yeah.

01:09:06.000 Let's go.

01:09:07.000 Let's sink some boreholes and get some pumps in there and get this water out of here. 0.95

01:09:12.000 These are those moments where I wish it was Elon Musk.

01:09:14.000 Because you want an engineer to get involved as well.

01:09:16.000 You'd need all of that.

01:09:17.000 Yeah.

01:09:18.000 You'd need like Army Corps engineers, someone who's going to be able to figure out how to move water.

01:09:23.000 Take a real big French drain, you know?

01:09:25.000 Just figure it out.

01:09:27.000 It can be done.

01:09:27.000 It might take decades, but it can be done.

01:09:29.000 I think it can be done.

01:09:30.000 The result would be insane.

01:09:33.000 I think you could do it too in a targeted search.

01:09:36.000 I think you could start in a small area where you know.

01:09:39.000 Do some more, I mean, more surveys too, like more GPR, more surveys, more scans, and really narrow in on like a section.

01:09:46.000 And then, like, let's see if it's if what we're seeing on these scans is there, then maybe do the site.

01:09:53.000 I have a feeling it's one of many.

01:09:55.000 I really do.

01:09:56.000 Oh, no.

01:09:57.000 I have a feeling that whole area, that whole complex, you're going to go as if they can really prove that there have been civilizations that have been there for 10,000, 20, 30,000 years, I think it's going to reveal itself one layer of the onion at a time.

01:09:57.000 Yeah.

01:10:12.000 Right.

01:10:13.000 And it's today, it's like it is a symptom of the climate that we only really look in the Nile Valley, right?

01:10:19.000 Because the dynastic Egyptians settled in the Nile Valley because when they started, it was a desert. 0.95

01:10:24.000 That was the habitable part.

01:10:25.000 But if you open up the possibility that there's a precursor civilization that was existing in the millennia prior to that, now you've got the Sahara.

01:10:35.000 You've got to figure out where the lakes, the river systems, the lake basins were.

01:10:41.000 And there's very little of the Sahara that's fully, you know, we're not looking under the sand there.

01:10:45.000 We're developing new scanning techniques.

01:10:47.000 Let's start looking there because I think there's a, you know, the Assyrians, this crazy place at the back of the Temple of Seti I in Abydos, and it's sitting on top of this aquifer. 1.00

01:10:57.000 It's like this big subterranean granite structure.

01:11:00.000 And I'm like, I bet this was, I think, clearly some sort of functional thing.

01:11:04.000 And I bet there's a bunch more of these, but we just don't know where they are because they're under the ground.

01:11:09.000 We just found this one.

01:11:09.000 Well, Seti found it when he built his temple, and he's like, holy shit, we found this giant granite subterranean structure.

01:11:16.000 Let's turn the temple this way.

01:11:17.000 But yeah, I think there's a strong possibility as well that there's a lot more of that stuff.

01:11:22.000 And even to their credit, archaeologists suggest the same thing.

01:11:25.000 The scope and scale of what is under the sand in Egypt.

01:11:28.000 I mean, I think even most mainstream archaeologists will tell you like 70% of it's still as yet undiscovered, at least.

01:11:35.000 That is so crazy.

01:11:36.000 That's such a crazy thing to say when you look at what has been discovered.

01:11:40.000 Well, that's nothing quite like it.

01:11:41.000 I mean, Luxor, what do they say?

01:11:43.000 The stats around Luxor is like one-third of the world's antiquities in this one area, just at Luxor.

01:11:49.000 And that's not even the Giza Plateau.

01:11:50.000 That's just, that's Upper Egypt down at Luxor with the West Bank and the Valley of the Kings and Karnak Temple.

01:11:56.000 It's astonishing.

01:11:57.000 And they're still digging stuff up.

01:11:59.000 There's a Amenhotep, the Temple of Amenhotep the second or third is Closso of Memnon.

01:12:05.000 These giant six, 700 ton statues are like the front door to it.

01:12:09.000 And they're slowly excavating this monstrous temple behind it.

01:12:12.000 And they keep finding these remnants of these colossal statues.

01:12:15.000 I've heard rumors, just rumors.

01:12:17.000 I'm going to Egypt like next week.

01:12:19.000 Hopefully we can, I want to get a look at this.

01:12:21.000 And I've heard rumors that they found like a hand from a statue that's even bigger than the biggest ones we've found so far.

01:12:27.000 So they might have found a segment of a statue that was one of the largest ever, which would be astonishing because who knows?

01:12:36.000 I mean, there's some evidence that they made stuff like that.

01:12:39.000 I mean, we talk about a thousand tons, and that's mind-boggling enough.

01:12:42.000 But there's actually a quarry in Egypt called Minya.

01:12:45.000 It's like the unfinished obelisk, right?

01:12:46.000 It's like the unfinished obelisk, still attached.

01:12:48.000 They never pulled it out.

01:12:49.000 It's 1,200 tons.

01:12:51.000 But at Minya, there's these, it's like limestone, and they've cut these blocks out.

01:12:54.000 They're still attached.

01:12:55.000 They made these blocks, and there's even an inscription, like a rough inscription of a seated fair, like a seated figure on a throne, sort of drawn on that as if that's what they were going for.

01:13:07.000 But if you take the density of the limestone in the Minya region and you calculate its volume, it's in the realm of 5,000 tons.

01:13:17.000 Oh, my God.

01:13:18.000 Yeah, who knows what was there originally?

01:13:22.000 I mean, I just, I think it's baffling enough that we have this, you know, these logistical achievements in that anything above really 300, 400 tons is, Christ, above 100 tons over any distance is a massive challenge for anyone.

01:13:38.000 I mean, us to move that sort of a load over the roads and things we have now.

01:13:42.000 I mean, shit, even in Peru, you find similar logistical achievements.

01:13:47.000 Like, I was just, I spent, just came back from five weeks in Peru.

01:13:50.000 I want to talk about that, but I have to pee so bad.

01:13:52.000 Okay, so let's pause real quick and we'll be right back.

01:13:54.000 Sorry.

01:13:54.000 Sorry about that, folks.

01:13:55.000 And we're back.

01:13:57.000 Have you speculated why they wanted things so big?

01:14:02.000 Or was it just that they had the ability all of a sudden at one point in time in their development?

01:14:08.000 I mean, you can't make, to me, any argument that these giant statues are functional.

01:14:13.000 They're clearly symbolic.

01:14:14.000 And it's almost like a challenge to history.

01:14:19.000 It's a monument through history.

01:14:21.000 I mean, there's some indication that things like the pyramid, the great pyramid, are markers and they're demonstrations of their knowledge and capability.

01:14:32.000 We can talk about that in a minute, but there's with the statues, it's no, to me, it's just like, look at us, look how mighty we're like, it's like the same reason we, I mean, why do we make Mount Rushmore?

01:14:43.000 We make some big monuments, it's like to leave a monument or some sort of marker behind.

01:14:47.000 I mean, the Sphinx, for example, could be a marker in time when you look at it in terms of the great cycle and the fact that it was likely a lion and it's facing due east.

01:14:58.000 So it could well be a marker for a particular moment during the processional cycle.

01:15:03.000 Which could be either like 10,500 BC or 35,000 BC.

01:15:08.000 Right, or plus 25,920 years.

01:15:11.000 So each cycle of that, so this is the thing.

01:15:13.000 I mean, the Sphinx, I mean, it's been talked about, even like again, you go back to Diodorus Siculus and Strabo and Herodotus, they talked about the Sphinx being vastly older.

01:15:23.000 They're hearing things about it being older.

01:15:25.000 Gaston Maspero and a lot of the archaeologists, the early explorers for that region, also mentioned it being 12,000 plus thousand years old.

01:15:33.000 It being this ancient monument.

01:15:35.000 And there's strong evidence to support that in that, I mean, you have statues of Sphinxes that predate Khufra, for example.

01:15:44.000 So when he apparently built it, there's already, we see statues and imitations of Sphinxes, also lions.

01:15:51.000 Before that time, you have what's called the inventory stele or the stele of Khufu's daughter, which was a statue that Khufu being Khufra's father.

01:16:01.000 So Khufu, Great Pyramid, Khufra, Middle Pyramid.

01:16:06.000 This is rarely acknowledged, but it tells the story that Khufu was trying to repair the Sphinx and dig it out of the sand.

01:16:13.000 He's Khufra's father, so this could be older.

01:16:16.000 But also the name, like the oldest name for the Sphinx is Vruti.

01:16:21.000 And it's the two lions.

01:16:24.000 It's Sekhmet.

01:16:26.000 And what's the name of the other lion?

01:16:28.000 I can't.

01:16:28.000 I have it here.

01:16:32.000 What is it?

01:16:36.000 I can't remember the name of the other lion god, but it literally means two lions and gate.

01:16:41.000 So it's like this lion's gate.

01:16:43.000 It's guarding a gate.

01:16:45.000 But this is one of the oldest names for it.

01:16:47.000 So if it was indeed a lion and it's facing due east, and we know that things like procession of the processional cycles, processional numerology is deeply embedded in many, many cultures all around the world.

01:17:01.000 This is one of the other key bits of context that seems to point to a consolidated origin point for knowledge and data of the cosmos and of geodetic data.

01:17:11.000 But knowledge of the procession of the equinoxes is one of those, which is the, you know, basically you mark this by what constellation is behind the rising sun on the vernal equinox facing east.

01:17:21.000 So as we look east today, it's somewhere between the constellation of Pisces and Aquarius.

01:17:27.000 And it's a cycle that denotes or is due to the Earth's wobble.

01:17:34.000 So we have at least three motions of the planet.

01:17:38.000 We have the rotation of the Earth, so 24-hour cycle.

01:17:42.000 We have the orbit of the Earth around the Sun, 365 and a quarter days.

01:17:47.000 And then you have the processional wobble.

01:17:49.000 There's a couple more actually.

01:17:51.000 And that is basically that the Earth as it spins does this, it describes this little, like its axis.

01:17:56.000 It describes a circle in space which changes the constellation.

01:17:59.000 And it's a cycle that takes around 26,000 years.

01:18:03.000 25,920 is the typical description for it.

01:18:08.000 And what that means is the backdrop of stars, you know, as we're looking at any time is slowly changing.

01:18:16.000 It changes only one degree every 72 years.

01:18:20.000 So if you're looking at the horizon, like the width of your thumb over 72 years, basically relative to the sun, the constellations behind the sun shift.

01:18:30.000 Today it's Pisces, and we're moving into the age of Aquarius.

01:18:34.000 And before Pisces was the age of Aries, and for Aries was the age of Taurus.

01:18:38.000 And you go back far enough, you get to Leo, the lion, which is another, I mean, this, the symbology, and certainly the dynastic Egyptians, as well as many others, had very similar constellations and names for all of these constellations that we do.

01:18:51.000 So I think there's a good indication that the Sphinx could be essentially a processional marker talking about a specific time, which in our current cycle would have been, I think, yeah, around 10,000 something BC, but you could potentially add a whole cycle onto that to go back another nearly 26,000 years.

01:19:13.000 Which is an interesting possibility.

01:19:14.000 Well, it's interesting, but it's also nuts.

01:19:17.000 It's nuts comparative to our conventional timeline.

01:19:21.000 What is the conventional timeline for the acceptance of astrological signs?

01:19:28.000 Constellations.

01:19:30.000 I mean, there's no doubt about the, I mean, the processional cycle is an observable thing.

01:19:37.000 But naming them, like Cancer, Leo.

01:19:39.000 I don't actually know.

01:19:40.000 It goes back, it's very common across multiple cultures.

01:19:44.000 One of the craziest things is actually depicted on the ceiling of the Temple of Dendera in ancient Egypt, the same constellations that we have.

01:19:51.000 Pisces, the fish, Aries, the ram, you know, Leo, the lion.

01:19:56.000 What do you think is the oldest accepted, like if we put it into perplexity, what do you think is the oldest accepted?

01:20:03.000 I would suspect it's either the Egyptians or the Sumerians, because that's about as far back as written knowledge goes.

01:20:09.000 I mean, it was the Sumerians followed by the Egyptians. 0.71

01:20:11.000 I don't know if the Sumerians had a zodiacal acknowledgement, but certainly the dynastic Egyptians did.

01:20:18.000 And that seems to have progressed from there down everyone.

01:20:21.000 And the interesting thing – So here, we have a sponsor.

01:20:24.000 Perplexity.

01:20:25.000 AI sponsor.

01:20:26.000 So clay tablets from Mesopotamia, Sumerian, later Babylonian, and the late second millennium BC give the oldest secure written constellation names, including the figures like the lion, the bull, and the scorpion.

01:20:38.000 These early star lists, such as Babylonian, three stars each catalogs, and later the mu L.A.P.I.N tablets.

01:20:46.000 What is that?

01:20:47.000 You know what that is?

01:20:48.000 Systematically record stars and constellations and were compiled roughly between 1200 and 1000 BCE, drawing on even older tradition.

01:20:48.000 No.

01:20:58.000 So it's at least 1,000 BCE.

01:21:01.000 Yeah, it says here that the icon.

01:21:02.000 It's not the current era.

01:21:03.000 The iconography of star animals similar to these constellations appear on prehistoric seals, vases, and gaming boards from Mesopotamia may go back as far as 4,000 BCE.

01:21:12.000 I think if you go to like Gobekli Tepe and Martin Swetman's theories that a lot of the animal depictions on there may be showing constellations, I don't believe they're the typical zodiacal constellations.

01:21:25.000 But it's, I mean, what's interesting is.

01:21:28.000 Let's see.

01:21:29.000 Are they found in Gobekli Tepe?

01:21:31.000 Let's see what Perplexity thinks.

01:21:36.000 No clear universally accepted constellation names have been identified at Gobekli Tepe, but some carvings appear to depict animals in positions that may correspond to parts of later constellations such as Scorpius, Sagittarius, or Syginus.

01:21:48.000 Syginus?

01:21:49.000 Synas? 0.96

01:21:49.000 Cygnus. 0.96

01:21:50.000 Cygnus.

01:21:51.000 According to a minority of researchers, most archaeologists remain cautious.

01:21:57.000 Yeah, a minority being Martin Swetman, probably.

01:21:59.000 Seeing these are powerful symbolic animal figures like a scorpion, vulture, and other birds of prey and arguing that firm links to a true zodiac or named constellations are speculative.

01:22:09.000 But interesting.

01:22:11.000 Yeah, it's remarkable.

01:22:14.000 I mean, and more so even just than those markers is one of the, I mean, for me, it's sacred geometry.

01:22:21.000 And the processional numerology that's encoded, I mean, this is Hamlet's Mill, what's in the book, Hamlet's Mill, that essentially shows you that a lot of this sacred geometry, which is like a numeral system or these sacred numbers that are repeated through geometry, time, distance, even cosmic cycles as we measure them.

01:22:43.000 And then they appear again and again through ancient cultures and in their origin stories and even in their architecture.

01:22:51.000 I mean, the Great Pyramid's probably the best example it being the, I mean, I'm sure you've heard that it's like a scale model of the northern hemisphere at a ratio of 43,200 to 1.

01:23:03.000 It's absolutely insane.

01:23:04.000 And it encodes so much more knowledge when you consider it from that perspective.

01:23:09.000 Knowledge that we can't explain through the dynastic Egyptians or by any capabilities that they had.

01:23:18.000 It encodes geodetic data in terms of this very specific shape of the Earth, it being an oblate spheroid, like it encodes that information in it.

01:23:29.000 How?

01:23:30.000 Well, so 43,200 is an interesting number to start with, just because the number of seconds in a day is 86,400.

01:23:40.000 So in 12 hours of the day, the amount of sun, like basically the amount of time on a hemisphere or in half of a day in exactly 12 hours is 43,200.

01:23:51.000 It's 432 is one of those numbers that shows up again and again and again and again.

01:23:55.000 So the Great Pyramid at a ratio of 43,200 to 1 is essentially a scale model of the northern hemisphere.

01:24:01.000 If you take the height of the Great Pyramid and this includes the sockle that it sits on, but you take that height, you multiply it by 43,200, you get the polar radius of the Earth.

01:24:12.000 So from the center of the Earth to the North Pole, almost exactly within a couple hundred feet.

01:24:18.000 And even more impressive is when you take the perimeter length of the Great Pyramid and you multiply that by 43,200, you get the equatorial circumference of the Earth within about 300 feet, which is super interesting because it's flexible.

01:24:37.000 It changes.

01:24:38.000 So as we've always known, there's been multiple surveys since the 1800s of the Great Pyramid and once its base was cleared off and we got its perimeter length.

01:24:45.000 And we've also had surveys looking at how big is the Earth.

01:24:49.000 Aristoteles in like 5,600 AD in Greece, he was the first one to give it a go by measuring sort of the angle of the shadow in two different places over a few years.

01:25:01.000 And he got the circumference of the Earth to within about 500 miles.

01:25:03.000 That was as close as we got until the 1800s and then the advent of modern satellite surveys in the 1970s and 1980s.

01:25:12.000 And the funny thing is, is that the more advanced we got as we step closer and closer and right up to the modern satellite surveys, the closer the number came to what the Great Pyramid represents at this ratio of 43,200.

01:25:27.000 Right up to the point where it's like the most modern, I think the surveys done in the 80s are still the ones we use today, looking at the actual circumference of the Earth is within about 300 feet of the measure of the Great Pyramid, which makes, I mean, that's within the margin of error.

01:25:44.000 It's within the variability of the margin of the Earth of the circumference of the Earth.

01:25:48.000 Because you have like the moon and the sun on one side, it literally, you measure it every day, it's going to change about 200 or 300 feet just because gravitational forces are pushing on the earth.

01:25:59.000 So that also means that what interesting is if in two seconds of time, if you were standing on the equator, then the Earth rotates precisely the length of the perimeter of the Great Pyramid.

01:26:11.000 So in two seconds, it goes, basically, the Earth turns the same length as the perimeter length of the Great Pyramid.

01:26:20.000 What's even crazier, and so you have this measure expressed in distance and in time, given that it's this significant number that measures the amount of seconds in 12 hours.

01:26:33.000 It also encodes geodetic data.

01:26:35.000 So the Earth isn't a perfect sphere, right?

01:26:37.000 We deviate from being a perfect sphere because, and this is, thank Christ, because it's like that rotation, the oblate spheroid nature of the Earth, the what's it called? 0.99

01:26:49.000 The spin, the shit, the spin motion of the Earth, essentially, like a dryer, for some reason, I can't think of the word.

01:27:00.000 It's flattening our tops a little bit, and we bulge a little bit at the center around the equator, right?

01:27:04.000 So it's like that spin force is making us bulge a bit.

01:27:10.000 So what it means is that if you measure the Earth this way, like north to south around and then east to west, it's going to be slightly longer east to west.

01:27:19.000 How slight?

01:27:21.000 I think it's something like 70 or 80 miles, no, 40 miles, I think is the difference, something like that.

01:27:29.000 Maybe that's the radius difference.

01:27:31.000 But radius or diameter might be 30 or 40 miles difference.

01:27:35.000 It's just this, it is this slight equatorial bulge.

01:27:37.000 And what it means is that, you know, when you draw latitude and longitude lines on the planet, and latitude being north-south, longitude being east-west, if you get down to the equator, now obviously they, you know, the shapes of them change as you go up towards the poles, but the latitude lines are straight.

01:27:55.000 I saw this recently.

01:27:56.000 I don't know how accurate it is.

01:27:57.000 It says it's accurate.

01:27:58.000 That's Earth without water.

01:27:59.000 Without water.

01:28:00.000 That's nuts.

01:28:02.000 Yeah.

01:28:03.000 Rocky little ball, innit?

01:28:05.000 Bro, that's crazy.

01:28:07.000 Yeah, some of those oceans are deep.

01:28:09.000 I don't know where that.

01:28:10.000 Yeah, you think?

01:28:10.000 Yeah.

01:28:11.000 That's cool.

01:28:12.000 That's bananas.

01:28:14.000 That almost looks exaggerated to me, that a little bit.

01:28:17.000 Wow.

01:28:18.000 The most accurate model of Earth's shape accounting not only for its rotation, but also for the distribution of the masses inside the planet, making the surface slightly uneven and deviating from a perfect sphere.

01:28:29.000 Unlike a school globe, which depicts Earth as an ideal ball, the geoid resembles a slightly flattened at the poles and bulging at the equator potato, with a height variations up to 100 meters due to the gravitational anomalies.

01:28:43.000 This shape arises from the centrifugal.

01:28:45.000 Centrifugal, that's the word I was looking for.

01:28:47.000 There it is.

01:28:47.000 Force of the Earth's rotation, which inflates the equator by an additional 21 kilometers compared to the polar diameter.

01:28:53.000 There we go.

01:28:55.000 Interestingly, the geoid is used in GPS navigation and geodesy.

01:29:01.000 Geodesy, yeah.

01:29:02.000 Geodesy.

01:29:03.000 To precisely measure elevations above sea levels as oceans follow this uneven surface.

01:29:08.000 Imagine if you shrank the Earth to the size of a basketball, the geoid's irregularities would be smaller than the roughness of the orange skin, wow, of an orange skin, yet still impact our daily lives. 1.00

01:29:22.000 Wow.

01:29:23.000 Yeah, so it must be a little exaggerated because I think that that's clearly rougher than an orange, that's clearly thicker than the roughness of an orange skin. 0.99

01:29:32.000 Yes.

01:29:33.000 Yeah, that's an exact, it gives us an example.

01:29:36.000 So, yeah, so we're a little bulgy around the middle, a little flatter on top.

01:29:40.000 So when you get down to latitude and longitude at the equator, right?

01:29:45.000 So at the equator, if you draw that cube one degree of latitude, one degree of longitude, it's not a perfect cube, okay?

01:29:54.000 So it's a little bit further east to west than it is north to south.

01:29:58.000 So if you cut that down into like 60 seconds of latitude and longitude, it's a smaller little square, but same proportions.

01:30:06.000 You have the same ratio.

01:30:08.000 And if you actually take the Great Pyramid, so there's the thing to understand about the Great Pyramid is that it sits on a sockle.

01:30:19.000 I don't know if I've talked about this before, but so we know because we have casing stones, we have that 51 degrees, 51 minutes angle of these casing stones.

01:30:28.000 So we were able to really accurate, and we have a few of those still around the base from where they fell off.

01:30:32.000 So from that, we can determine the height, and we also have this perimeter length using the casing stones pretty accurately, this survey.

01:30:41.000 And now, those casing stones, it doesn't sit direct on the bedrock.

01:30:44.000 The pyramid actually sits on top of a 55-centimeter sockle.

01:30:48.000 So it's this little platform that sticks out about this much, and it's 55 centimeters high, and it's like sticks out.

01:30:55.000 So you have the casing stones, and you have this little sockle that it sits on.

01:30:58.000 So you have these two methods of measuring the pyramid.

01:31:01.000 You can measure the perimeter length around the casing stones, or you can measure the perimeter length around the sockle.

01:31:07.000 Soccle slightly larger.

01:31:09.000 And if you, the funny thing is, if you get down to one quarter of one second of latitude and longitude at the equator, the longitude is exactly within an inch or two, the perimeter length of the sockle, and the latitude, the north-south, is the perimeter length of the pyramid.

01:31:34.000 So it's encoding the geodetic shape of the Earth.

01:31:38.000 The ratio of latitude to longitude is encoded incredibly accurately in these perimeter lengths on the pyramid.

01:31:46.000 And it's just, that's just mind-boggling.

01:31:50.000 Well, so this would be the skeptic reductionist's answer to this stuff.

01:31:57.000 You say, well, you're just playing with numbers.

01:31:59.000 It's like, well, the numbers are none of those things.

01:32:03.000 Anyone can check that data for themselves.

01:32:05.000 Like the 43,200 to 1 ratio of the pyramid, the fact that that's the number of seconds in 12 hours of the day.

01:32:12.000 There's so many.

01:32:13.000 I mean, this, by the way, 43, 432 turns up all over the place.

01:32:17.000 The Kali Uyghur is said to be 43,200 years old.

01:32:21.000 The radius of the sun is 432,000 miles.

01:32:27.000 The king's list from the Sumerians is a total of 43,200, oh no, 432,000 years with one king reigning for 43,200 years.

01:32:37.000 So this 432 is one of those sacred geometry numbers that keeps turning up again and again.

01:32:44.000 But what's always been fascinating to me in the geodetic information encoded in the Great Pyramid is like you have to understand the shape and size of the Earth to get that ratio so accurately embedded in that monument.

01:32:58.000 And we weren't able to do that basically until really recently with satellite surveys, but we certainly weren't able to measure longitude even until like the turn of the 18th century, like James Cook's second voyage of discovery.

01:33:11.000 We couldn't measure, we couldn't accurately figure out where we were on those on those east-to-west traverses.

01:33:17.000 Like accurately reflecting longitude in the pyramid is astonishing.

01:33:23.000 It's one of those things that also relates to ancient maps, having like accurate coastlines with longitude on them.

01:33:28.000 But what seems clear is that somebody at some point in the past had very accurate knowledge, not only of cosmic cycles, but also of the shape and size of the Earth itself.

01:33:41.000 Like in terms of they surveyed it, they understood its shape, they understood the ratio of latitude to longitude on the planet, and it's all encoded in this monument.

01:33:50.000 And it's just kind of scratching the surface on what's encoded in their great pyramid.

01:33:55.000 But I mean, the numbers are all there.

01:33:57.000 You can add these up.

01:33:58.000 Have you ever had a debate with anybody that thinks that this is all coincidence and that you could take these numbers and just kind of monkey around with them and make any kind of equation you want if you just draw arbitrary distances between certain things?

01:34:13.000 No, not because some people do believe that, right?

01:34:15.000 Yeah, I mean, so I think there's a difference between when you talk about numbers versus ratios.

01:34:21.000 Like it does, once you get to ratios, then it doesn't matter how you measure them.

01:34:25.000 Like that's it's like the ratio, it doesn't matter you measure them in mosquito dicks or inches or whatever, right?

01:34:30.000 It's all centimeters.

01:34:32.000 So ratios are one thing.

01:34:33.000 Numbers, there is a lot, I mean, that whole system of measurement, how we measure time, the imperial system of measurement, where the mile comes from, all of that stuff does have these deep roots in sacred geometry and basically cosmic.

01:34:45.000 And that's, again, I think all pointing towards a common system or a common set of knowledge that came from.

01:34:52.000 But I've not debated somebody about this.

01:34:54.000 I don't know that you, I mean, you can't really question the numbers, but there's some incredible, just, I guess, coincidences that are in this whole system that do point towards like, I mean, they get really crazy.

01:35:06.000 So here's another one, which I just, this one just pickles my noodle.

01:35:11.000 It's so, you know, we know that I've said this before, I think that the sun is, you know, the moon's 400 times smaller than the sun, and it's the sun's 400 times further away.

01:35:22.000 So you get this, that's how we get total solar eclipses.

01:35:24.000 That's really nice.

01:35:25.000 But there's also another sacred number encoded in their ratios relative to their diameters and the distance from Earth that's the same between the moon and the sun.

01:35:34.000 And that's 108.

01:35:35.000 So if you take the diameter of the moon at whatever it is, 2160 miles, by the way, 2160 is also the length of a great month in the processional cycle.

01:35:46.000 That's 112th of 25,920.

01:35:49.000 But 2160 miles times 108, that gives you more or less the distance between the moon to the earth.

01:35:55.000 So moons, yeah, so it's a moon's diameter times 108 gives you the distance to the earth.

01:36:02.000 The sun's diameter, which is 86,400 miles, which is the number of seconds in a 24-hour period, times that by 108, and you get that's the distance of the sun from the earth.

01:36:17.000 So it's like that relationship between their diameter and their distance from the earth is exactly the same between the sun and the moon.

01:36:24.000 And it's 108.

01:36:26.000 So it's the lunar diameter over lunar distance equals solar diameter over solar distance.

01:36:32.000 And I mean.

01:36:34.000 What a coincidence.

01:36:35.000 Yeah, and it's 108.

01:36:35.000 What a coincidence.

01:36:36.000 And by the way, there are temples and places like Cambodia that have 108 pillars.

01:36:40.000 Like 108 is another one of these sacred numbers that have been encoded into the way we measure stuff, the way we count for time.

01:36:46.000 So it's a huge, there's a huge sort of rabbit hole of sacred geometry and processional numerology that seems to point to some point in the past, someone having all of this understanding to create these systems and to measure things and to do so accurately to the point where the more accurate we get in our measurements, the closer we get to these ratios and data reflected in these ancient structures.

01:37:14.000 It's just, and you can't attribute that to these cultures that were on those sites, like the ancient Egyptians or the Greeks.

01:37:20.000 It's like, where did this information come from?

01:37:22.000 And how come it's represented in cultures from the Norse mythology through South American native Indian myths to these numbers show up again and again, as was shown by Hamlet's Mill, this book, that basically this tome that put that information together and said, well, all of it seems to point to this, you know, this origin point of someone with this information.

01:37:46.000 And it's just, it's one more of these contextual points when you combine it with the human timeline and climate and cataclysm and all the endless other contradictions in the megalithic architecture on these sites and stuff like that that makes this concept that we've been advanced significantly advanced, us or someone has, and they've left all these signs and signals and breadcrumbs for us to try and follow to figure out.

01:38:11.000 Whoa.

01:38:12.000 Yeah.

01:38:12.000 Whoa.

01:38:13.000 Yeah, the pyramid is cool.

01:38:17.000 It is just, whoa, it is my favorite subject of all time.

01:38:20.000 Yeah.

01:38:21.000 The lost civilization subject, I think, is my favorite subject because it ties all of them together.

01:38:27.000 You know, the mystery of the human origins.

01:38:32.000 Yeah.

01:38:32.000 All of it.

01:38:33.000 Yeah, it's just, I think it's, I think it's plausible.

01:38:37.000 I think it's probable even that we've risen and have been wiped out.

01:38:41.000 I mean, I think I was just saying, I just spent five weeks in Peru again.

01:38:45.000 I just came back like 10 days ago.

01:38:47.000 And I mean, that place more than anywhere else is both more mysterious and more obvious that there was something else going on a long time ago.

01:38:56.000 Yeah, more of in the delta between these technological levels.

01:38:56.000 More obvious.

01:39:02.000 Like, so in Egypt, you know, I don't, you never want to underestimate what the dynastic Egyptians were capable of.

01:39:09.000 They had this long civilization of 300, or sorry, 3,000 years, and they did some incredible work.

01:39:15.000 So, you know, they're really good stonework.

01:39:17.000 It gets the lines can get a little blurred.

01:39:18.000 I mean, you still see the difference, but in Peru, it's different, particularly in the Sacred Valley, places like Tiwanaku in Bolivia.

01:39:26.000 But there you have these very distinct lines, like in terms of technology and the stonework and the layering of the stonework in that place.

01:39:36.000 Today, I mean, typically it's mostly all attributed to the Inca, but the Inca were really only around for like maybe 300 years maximum.

01:39:44.000 The Inca Empire was barely 100 years before the Spanish wiped them out in 1533.

01:39:50.000 And so it's relatively young, right?

01:39:51.000 So 1200 AD roughly to 1533.

01:39:55.000 And they attribute most everything to the Inca.

01:39:56.000 And it's just not, you just look at it and go, this is not remotely possible.

01:40:01.000 There's a huge difference.

01:40:02.000 You see these three different layers of architecture.

01:40:06.000 There's a guy in Peru that has been researching this stuff for 50 plus years, him and his father, Jesus Guimara, who has this classification system for the architecture in Peru.

01:40:19.000 So you have, he calls them Hananpacha, Uranpacha, Icunpacha, the three levels.

01:40:25.000 These words have many meanings in Quechua.

01:40:28.000 But it starts with like the oldest stuff seems to be this monolithic, carved, really bizarrely carved mountains, like rock, bedrock.

01:40:37.000 They're not blocks.

01:40:38.000 It seems vastly ancient.

01:40:40.000 There's all these channels and massive structures and shapes carved into the living rock of the mountain.

01:40:46.000 It's just like the lowest level usually shows the most erosion.

01:40:49.000 Then you have the megalithic stuff, like Sacsay Waman.

01:40:54.000 You've seen pictures of that, you know, Sacsay Waman.

01:40:56.000 And the core of Machu Picchu, Oyante Tamba, these giant, the streets of Cusco, these huge megalithic blocks that are all got these perfect joins between them.

01:41:05.000 You can't fit a razor blade in between them.

01:41:07.000 They're flowing.

01:41:09.000 They're mortarless walls.

01:41:10.000 They're incredible.

01:41:11.000 It's one of the best, most amazing parts of the Sacred Valley is the proliferation of this sort of megalithic work.

01:41:17.000 But then on top of that, you have the Inca work, the Ikunpacha. 0.90

01:41:20.000 It's literally cobblestones that are put together with mud mortar.

01:41:23.000 It's like local rock, and they've stuck it together.

01:41:26.000 And so you have this very distinct layers.

01:41:30.000 I have pictures of this stuff, Jamie, in the South America directory on there.

01:41:35.000 But it's super clear.

01:41:36.000 Like there's no blending.

01:41:37.000 It's like, boom, okay, here's the oldest layer.

01:41:40.000 Here's the Inca layer. 0.96

01:41:40.000 Here's the next layer. 0.96

01:41:41.000 And it's always in that order.

01:41:42.000 Like it's always like Hananpacha on the bottom, then the megalithic stuff on top, and then the Inca work on top of that because they were repairing stuff. 0.96

01:41:49.000 So even the Inca never talked about them making sites like Sacsay Waman.

01:41:53.000 They have all these other stories for it.

01:41:55.000 Like the giants built it is one of the explanations you work.

01:41:59.000 Yeah, this is a great example.

01:42:00.000 So this is the Intipunka, the Sungate. 0.76

01:42:02.000 So you see the difference.

01:42:04.000 You see that clear distinction in the architecture.

01:42:06.000 You have the megalithic stuff and then you have the repair work on top, the cobblestone work.

01:42:12.000 And there's just, this is all I, once you see this, you can't really unsee it as you go all over the sacred valley.

01:42:21.000 And some of these, some of these, this is small compared to the type of stuff you see in Sacsi Waman, where some of the blocks get up towards 200 tons, 150 plus tons, and all of the same type of stone.

01:42:32.000 Yeah, this is Tiwanaku.

01:42:33.000 And so, you know, there's this long history of unknown.

01:42:37.000 So in Egypt, you have this connection, a cultural connection.

01:42:41.000 They have their kings list.

01:42:43.000 They talk about Zeptepe.

01:42:45.000 They clearly have this connection to whatever builder culture was there.

01:42:48.000 They talk about it.

01:42:49.000 I mean, it's part of their origin stories.

01:42:51.000 But in South America, you have something else happen.

01:42:53.000 Like, there's a big gap.

01:42:54.000 Like, you don't have the Inca don't have that precursor culture.

01:42:58.000 They came from the south.

01:42:59.000 They talk of their origin story.

01:43:00.000 It comes from Lake Titicaca up into the Sacred Valley, and then they took over.

01:43:04.000 There are a couple of precursor cultures to the Inca, but there's this huge unknown.

01:43:09.000 It's like we just don't know what happened.

01:43:12.000 You know, there are other sites in Peru.

01:43:15.000 Graham Hancock's been out there recently.

01:43:16.000 I was out there just recently too.

01:43:18.000 There are pyramid sites in Peru that are 5,000 years old.

01:43:22.000 Places like Corral.

01:43:24.000 They're not sophisticated.

01:43:26.000 It's incredible work in terms of the amount of stone that's been used, but it's not megalithic or precise, but there are pyramid cultures that stretch back at least 5,000 years.

01:43:37.000 But in terms of the real megalithic precision work in South America, we have no clue who did that.

01:43:43.000 In fact, there's probably the strangest site.

01:43:47.000 One of my favorites is Pumapunku, Tiwanaku.

01:43:50.000 You heard of this place in Bolivia?

01:43:51.000 Sure.

01:43:52.000 Tough to get to.

01:43:53.000 It's amazing.

01:43:53.000 It's up on the high Altiplano, like 12,500 feet above sea level.

01:44:02.000 It's like nothing else on the planet.

01:44:05.000 The stonework there is massive.

01:44:07.000 It's precise.

01:44:08.000 It's playful.

01:44:09.000 There are just endless 90-degree turns, perfectly polished surfaces, like saw marks, cut marks.

01:44:17.000 Yeah, I have a Tiwanaku directory there, Jamie.

01:44:22.000 And it's quite well preserved because it was buried in mud.

01:44:27.000 It's slowly been excavated.

01:44:29.000 And there is a lot of evidence that suggests this place is at least 10,000 to 12,000 years old, again, using endless, like this sort of andesite work.

01:44:40.000 See, this is a left turn arrow for some reason.

01:44:43.000 But it's this playful nature.

01:44:45.000 The H blocks are famous at this place, but they just have these endless little insets and dirt.

01:44:50.000 Like stuff like this.

01:44:51.000 Like this is one of my favorite blocks to show people.

01:44:53.000 That is a, you're looking down on top, so the ground's down.

01:44:56.000 So I'm looking down this thin channel that's been cut into this block, and it has all of these little drill holes in it.

01:45:02.000 And these are like tiny little drill holes, and this channel's about this wide, and it's cut into this block.

01:45:07.000 You have several blocks with features like this.

01:45:09.000 Like it's clearly something's been attached to this.

01:45:11.000 Like it's how, how do you cut this in stone?

01:45:15.000 And this is, you know, thousands of years old, but it's a remarkable site full of these sort of examples.

01:45:24.000 And it's attributed in general to a culture that lived there around 1100 AD.

01:45:32.000 You're still there, still digging stuff out of the ground.

01:45:35.000 It was destroyed in a cataclysm or just some sort of massive mud flood, I think, was the end of this civilization. 1.00

01:45:41.000 However, that's me and Graham.

01:45:44.000 And this is at 12,000 feet or 12 and a half, yeah.

01:45:48.000 What would be the reason for establishing a civilization at 12,000 feet?

01:45:54.000 It gets strange because there's, so the modern, first, the modern dating for it comes from a handful of carbon dates, right?

01:46:03.000 They found some carbon dates and they go, okay, 1100 AD.

01:46:06.000 But they've also found carbon dates that go back to 1500 BC and they just dismiss them as being unreliable.

01:46:11.000 I literally think these carbon dates could literally be the last person someone lit a campfire there or was buried there.

01:46:17.000 There's a guy named Arthur Poznanski, who's a Polish professor that lived, he spent 50 years on this site, died in La Paz, published his works 1945.

01:46:25.000 I have a copy of his books, The Cradle of American Man, it's called.

01:46:29.000 He spent 50 years investigating this site.

01:46:32.000 He dated it at 15,000 BC based on a whole range of other geological data, astro-archaeological dating, which is, it has these alignment properties we can talk about.

01:46:45.000 He found the skull of a toxodon there, which Toxodon is an extinct Pleistocene era mammal that went out in the Younger Dryas, 13,000 BC.

01:46:54.000 There seems to be depictions of saber-toothed tigers and smilodons in some of the artwork there.

01:47:00.000 So you have some, they say they're all pumas, but some of them have small canines, some of them have really big canines.

01:47:06.000 I mean, why is there a difference here?

01:47:08.000 He dates it culturally in terms of it being the origin point for not only other cultures in South America, but also Central and North America through the symbology, the Chicanas, the Incan cross, there's all these other features.

01:47:21.000 So he used a whole raft of scientific techniques to date that site and to support his conclusion that it was vastly ancient.

01:47:29.000 And then that's kind of all been thrown aside because they found a few carbon remains that were at the 1100 AD mark.

01:47:36.000 Why would you build a civilization there at that altitude?

01:47:39.000 You wouldn't.

01:47:41.000 You just wouldn't.

01:47:42.000 It's too hard.

01:47:43.000 It's above the tree line.

01:47:44.000 There's no natural trees.

01:47:45.000 And it gets wacky because today, Tiwanaku was a port.

01:47:50.000 They admit, even the archaeologists, they talk about Pumapunku, it's like a port.

01:47:54.000 There was something industrial happening there.

01:47:56.000 The stone, if you look at Poznanski's original images with the, there's all sorts of interlocking bits of stone and sluice gates and hydrodynamic features on this place.

01:48:05.000 There's a giant steppe pyramid that had this reservoir in the center.

01:48:09.000 It's crazy.

01:48:10.000 But they tell you it's a port.

01:48:11.000 And it was a port on Lake Titicaca, which today is about 10 miles away.

01:48:15.000 The shoreline is about 10 miles away.

01:48:19.000 H.S. Bellamy in the 1800s discovered a strand line that runs basically through where Tiwanaku was.

01:48:27.000 So strand line is like, you know, basically the shoreline of an ancient water body of water.

01:48:33.000 And it can be formed through just gentle wave action over a long period of time.

01:48:37.000 It can be formed from like a high intensity period of waves, you know, something hammering a shoreline.

01:48:43.000 But he measured this.

01:48:44.000 He found this shoreline that runs about 400 miles.

01:48:47.000 So it's like across the Altiplano from Silistani in the north, way down south towards La Paz.

01:48:52.000 But he documented this strand line.

01:48:54.000 What's really weird, and at that strand line, Tiwanaku would have been at the shores of Lake Titicaca.

01:49:01.000 It would have been a small island or a peninsula.

01:49:04.000 The lake level would have been right there.

01:49:06.000 And that fits it being a port.

01:49:07.000 However, the strand line is today, it's tilted.

01:49:12.000 The strand line's tilted.

01:49:14.000 So obviously water, when it makes, you know, a body of water, when it makes a strand line, it's flat, like it's, it finds its level.

01:49:20.000 But only geological processes, and I assume over a fair amount of time, can give it this tilt of a couple degrees, which is what they've measured.

01:49:30.000 There's no doubt there is a strand line, but it's tilted.

01:49:33.000 So I question whether in the period that they say Tiwanaku was built 1100 AD, less than a thousand years between then and now, that there's been enough geological upheaval in the Andes to tilt this strand line a couple of degrees.

01:49:47.000 I don't think it can happen anything like that fast.

01:49:51.000 I think this strand line and the evidence that it was a port shows us that this city was in fact vastly more ancient than that and that it was destroyed by cataclysm, by flooding from the melting of the glaciers in the Andes.

01:50:07.000 There's strong evidence there that it's seen several, it may have seen multiple cycles of glaciation.

01:50:13.000 And the climate would have been different during this period.

01:50:16.000 Like the climate changed to make it this arid, sort of inhospitable place that it is today, like where it's just tough to exist at 12,500 feet above the tree line where hardly anything except like fruit varieties of potato grow.

01:50:27.000 They must have had better climate or, I don't know, lower altitude, but a better climate at least.

01:50:33.000 Lower altitudes possible?

01:50:34.000 I don't think so.

01:50:35.000 I mean, how much does that change?

01:50:37.000 You're talking millions of years for that.

01:50:38.000 Oh, boy.

01:50:39.000 Because Lake Titicaca, I mean, that was sea level.

01:50:41.000 Like, it is seawater.

01:50:42.000 Like, it's not today.

01:50:43.000 It has like unique species in it.

01:50:45.000 Like, there's a native seahorse.

01:50:47.000 It's the only one.

01:50:48.000 It's brackish water.

01:50:49.000 So it was originally part of the ocean that was uplifted.

01:50:52.000 And it's been uplifted 12,500 feet.

01:50:54.000 But this is millions and millions of years.

01:50:57.000 And it's today fed by these glaciers.

01:50:59.000 So it's slightly, it's brackish.

01:51:00.000 It's like it's a combination of salt and freshwater.

01:51:05.000 But it has these species that can only have come from the ocean.

01:51:09.000 But this is like long geological processes.

01:51:11.000 So I think it's more likely that there was just a different sub-climate or like a climate zone in that area that must have supported that life because the place is massive.

01:51:23.000 The site where you go is only the barest fraction of what is actually there under the ground.

01:51:28.000 They've done scans.

01:51:29.000 They've found entire buried step pyramids at this site.

01:51:33.000 The farmers in all the fields around it, they ran into these big blocks occasionally and like, god damn it, they ruined the tractor again.

01:51:39.000 And it's a big andesite block from Tiwanaku.

01:51:42.000 Whoa.

01:51:43.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:51:43.000 So it's, and it's, it's a super mystery.

01:51:46.000 It's also the place where those tridactyl pyramid, those tridactyl mummies are. 1.00

01:51:46.000 And it's. 1.00

01:51:50.000 Right.

01:51:50.000 So Nazca, right?

01:51:51.000 A lot of that comes from South America.

01:51:53.000 That's right.

01:51:54.000 And there's.

01:51:55.000 That gets real weird.

01:51:56.000 It does.

01:51:57.000 When you take all those things into consideration.

01:51:59.000 Yeah.

01:51:59.000 Things get real weird.

01:52:01.000 Well, you know, there's also this evidence for technology and alignments there.

01:52:04.000 I mean, this is one of the things Poznanski based his dating on was this was this structure there called the Kalas Asaya.

01:52:11.000 There's a big step pyramid there called the Acapana.

01:52:13.000 Then there's this Kalas Asaya, which is big, rectangular mass.

01:52:17.000 They call it the Stonehenge of the Americas originally because it was just these giant stones that formed this big rectangular structure.

01:52:25.000 Today it's been reaped.

01:52:26.000 They've left the big stones there, but they've kind of filled in the gaps and they've built the walls and stuff again.

01:52:31.000 And what Poznanski found was that it is an extremely accurate solar observatory, kind of like a, I mean similar to Stonehenge in some ways.

01:52:40.000 But if you stood in the center of the west wall and you looked east, so this big rectangle.

01:52:47.000 Do we have an image of this so I can look at it?

01:52:49.000 Yeah, if you go to Tiwanaka, there's kind of like an overlook.

01:52:53.000 If you bring them all up, I can show you.

01:52:55.000 Or you can type in Tiwanaka, probably find pictures of it.

01:52:58.000 Kalas Asaya.

01:53:00.000 K-A-L-A-S-A-Y-S-A, something like that.

01:53:06.000 But it's, it's, there's like, it's, imagine a big rectangular, huge rectangular.

01:53:13.000 That's in, yeah, there.

01:53:14.000 So that's it there.

01:53:15.000 So actually, it's like there's an inner structure there, but this is, so see all those standing stones?

01:53:20.000 Those are the original stones.

01:53:21.000 So it actually goes all the way around and all that far side.

01:53:24.000 So it has an internal structure as well.

01:53:26.000 Interesting.

01:53:27.000 So the larger stones in the original.

01:53:30.000 Okay.

01:53:30.000 And they actually built the smaller wall later.

01:53:33.000 That's all modern.

01:53:34.000 Modern as far as the last 50 years.

01:53:37.000 Oh.

01:53:38.000 Yeah, they reconstructed it.

01:53:39.000 If you go back to Poznanski's original excavations from the early 1900s, all you see is the big standing stones.

01:53:46.000 It's been quarried.

01:53:47.000 Like, this is another one of those places where literally like the core of La Paz is made from stones from Tiwanaku. 0.98

01:53:54.000 Like it's the whole town that's here.

01:53:56.000 There's a massive church that's been built.

01:53:59.000 They made mines and sewer systems.

01:54:02.000 It was just like the most convenient source of stone.

01:54:03.000 And in Tiwanaku in particular, they're very square.

01:54:07.000 Like it's really linear, beautiful blocks of anders.

01:54:09.000 Perfect building material.

01:54:10.000 Why wouldn't you just take it and build cities?

01:54:12.000 So they were right up until the 30s.

01:54:14.000 They were just wagon loads and wagon loads and wagon loads of stone every day, every day.

01:54:18.000 So that place has been used as a quarry for, you have to, similar to a lot of places in Egypt for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

01:54:24.000 And but it's so what you're looking at is you've got to use your imagination to look at the older pictures.

01:54:30.000 And even then, it's barely a fraction.

01:54:33.000 I think of what's actually there under the ground.

01:54:35.000 But what's interesting is Poznanski figured out that if you stand in the middle of that, of the west wall, like so looking this way, and if you looked at the corner pillars on the east wall, it showed you the sun on the solstices would rise exactly on the outside corners of these pillars.

01:54:56.000 Now, this is, if you, it looks like that to the eye, but if you measure it with precision instruments, you find it's about 18 minutes off now.

01:55:05.000 And so when it was aligned, so it's similar to that, the Sphinx, and like when was it lined up with Leo?

01:55:11.000 So when was this structure lined up exactly on the solstices?

01:55:15.000 And so the motion of the Earth that would affect that is called the change in the obliquity of the ecliptic.

01:55:21.000 It's another one of the Milenkovich cycles.

01:55:23.000 So you have, we talked about precession of the equinoxes, which is the wobble.

01:55:27.000 So then you also have this tilt, like this change in the tilt of the earth.

01:55:31.000 So the actual tilt goes back and forth, I think between 22 and 25 degrees, something like that.

01:55:36.000 But it's a 41,000-year cycle.

01:55:39.000 And it's basically the change in the axis of the Earth relative to the equator of the Sun or the ecliptic plane.

01:55:45.000 So this, you know, if you project out the equator of the Sun, where all the planets are orbiting, it's the change in the Earth's tilt relative to that plane, the obliquity of the ecliptic.

01:55:59.000 And so on that cycle, it's a 41,000-year cycle.

01:56:02.000 Turns out that he dated it using the star charts of the time at around 15,000 BC.

01:56:08.000 Now, his work was validated in the early 2000s by the Bolivian, this is a funny story, Bolivian head of archaeology in Bolivia and these astronomers that went there and said, let's check Poznanski's work using the astronomical almanac, more up-to-date information.

01:56:29.000 And they said, yes, indeed, he was correct.

01:56:31.000 Like, if you assume this was an alignment thing, this would have lined up right on basically 12,000 years ago, 13,000 years ago, 10,000 BC, or plus 41,000 years, I guess, for the cycle.

01:56:47.000 And the guy, Gustav, I've forgotten his name.

01:56:49.000 Damn it.

01:56:50.000 But the guy who was in charge of the Bolivian Department of Archaeology at the time, once he made that announcement, lost his job.

01:57:00.000 And I don't think it's ever been talked of since.

01:57:02.000 Yes, the official dates for Timunaku haven't changed.

01:57:05.000 However, these guys also figured out that if you spun it around and you looked from, it's also aligned to the sun sets on those solstices.

01:57:13.000 So if you go on the west wall and sorry, you go on the east wall and look west, it also perfectly aligns with the sun sets.

01:57:17.000 You also get the solstices in the center.

01:57:19.000 So, you know, solstices being, sorry, equinoxes in the center.

01:57:22.000 Solstices being the shortest and longest day of the year where the sun's furthest north and furthest south, and then equinox is in the middle.

01:57:30.000 So it's perfectly aligned with that, but just off kilter a little bit because of that motion of the earth, the change in the obliquity of the ecliptic.

01:57:40.000 So it's not an accident, put it that way.

01:57:43.000 It's not just a coincidence that it's aligned this way.

01:57:46.000 It was set up that way to be a solar observatory.

01:57:48.000 And if you look at it with an open mind, it's an insane deep.

01:57:51.000 Yeah, it is.

01:57:52.000 I mean, even within this cycle at 10,000 BC, I mean, that's the Younger Dryas period.

01:57:57.000 This is, you know, this is, and it's a significant marker for South America because I can tell you the younger drys had a tremendous impact on South America. 1.00

01:58:06.000 Something like 75% of the megafaunal species in South America went extinct.

01:58:11.000 Although you are up in the Andes, they may have been more protected from the full extent.

01:58:17.000 Who knows, though, fires and smoke.

01:58:19.000 They would have had the, you know, the blackening of the skies and all the rest of it that would have happened during that Younger Dryas extinction event.

01:58:26.000 But yeah, something happened.

01:58:28.000 I mean, they, again, there's been, I think there's been a cycle of glaciation and deglaciation in the Andes that's affected the lake and a lot of the stuff up there in particular, just because we know that there are structures, get this, there are structures beneath the waters of Lake Titicaca today, made from red sandstone that match kind of the oldest layers at Tiwanaku.

01:58:53.000 So they might have been made beneath the water.

01:58:57.000 So the lake level must have been lower.

01:59:00.000 And then something happened where a lot of water got added.

01:59:04.000 Temple found on Lake Titicaca, and this is in 2000.

01:59:08.000 Stone anchor.

01:59:09.000 What is that word?

01:59:11.000 Adenamana?

01:59:12.000 660-foot-long.

01:59:14.000 And animal.

01:59:15.000 And animal.

01:59:17.000 Oh, stone anchor and animal bones were found amongst our artifact scientists Wednesday.

01:59:22.000 Oh, there's Wednesday said it's connected too.

01:59:25.000 Wednesday said they had found beneath South America's Lake Titicaca in what.

01:59:29.000 There's something wrong with this translation because all these words are jammed together.

01:59:32.000 Even where it says Titicaca, then science says there's no space.

01:59:35.000 25-year-old website.

01:59:37.000 Yeah, but it seems weird.

01:59:38.000 Like it's like recoded or something, right?

01:59:40.000 After 18 days of diving below the clear waters of Titicaca, scientists said Tuesday they have discovered a 660-foot long, 160-foot-wide temple, a terrace for crops, pre-Incan Road, and a 2,600-foot containing wall.

01:59:58.000 Holy shit.

01:59:59.000 Yeah.

02:00:00.000 I strongly support the hypothesis that was found by the, what is that word?

02:00:08.000 Atahalupa?

02:00:11.000 Something like that.

02:00:11.000 It's clearly a Peruvian word.

02:00:14.000 Atalupa 2000 expedition are the ruins of a submerged pre-Columbian temple, said Eduardo Perea, a Bolivian scientist who was among those who explored the site around 90 miles northeast of the Bolivian capital of La Paz.

02:00:29.000 Yeah.

02:00:29.000 So there's stuff underneath the water?

02:00:31.000 It says it's filmed.

02:00:32.000 The film of that?

02:00:33.000 Can we see what that looks like?

02:00:35.000 Try to find it?

02:00:35.000 Yeah, I just thought this was easier because I couldn't find a good video.

02:00:39.000 Oh, it's got to be.

02:00:41.000 I'm sure it exists somewhere, but I have to try to find it.

02:00:44.000 So it said it's made over 200 dives in the water 65 to 100 feet deep.

02:00:44.000 Oh, my God.

02:00:48.000 I'd love to know exactly how deep.

02:00:50.000 Does it say how deep it was?

02:00:51.000 Because, I mean, that's a significant change in the level of the lake.

02:00:56.000 So yeah, Lake Titicaca is 12,464 feet above sea level.

02:01:00.000 That is bananas.

02:01:02.000 We went and stayed out on an island on the lake with no electricity.

02:01:05.000 The sky at night was absolutely phenomenal.

02:01:08.000 If you were a gambler, how old do you think that is?

02:01:11.000 Yeah, I would put it at least I'd say at least in that 12 to 15,000 years, if not significantly older.

02:01:21.000 I don't know that there were periods of time in that lake where that level was that low.

02:01:28.000 What's crazy is that there's been a variance.

02:01:30.000 Like there's structures beneath the current lake level, so the water was lower.

02:01:34.000 And then we know from the strand line that the water was, God, what is it?

02:01:38.000 I think 40 meters almost higher than what it is now when it would have been at the shores of Tiwanaku.

02:01:43.000 This is indicating a long time period of change.

02:01:45.000 Yes, and the tilted strand line.

02:01:47.000 So if you were talking about Tiwanaka, if I was a gambler, I would put it at tens of thousands of years.

02:01:52.000 I don't think, I don't even my, as in getting this is speculation.

02:01:56.000 I don't think it fits even within the 10 to 12,000 year cycle.

02:01:59.000 I think it's got to be tens, like multiple tens of thousands of years for that to be to be um where it is.

02:02:06.000 And in fact, when I was there, literally like two weeks ago, we made some observations that I hadn't made there, but i'd spent a bunch of time at Tiwanaku, um over the years.

02:02:17.000 But we figured out that those big pillars of that Calisasaya we thought they were andes, they're granite, the ones on one side, they're actually granite and they're very heavily eroded like, like again, you have that big scoop out of it.

02:02:28.000 You can see at the bottom where they were buried um, but there's this huge amount of erosion and I just and granite erodes way more slowly than things like limestone.

02:02:37.000 So it's just, I think the erosional um data there needs to be studied because I don't know how long it would take.

02:02:43.000 Even in that environment, which gets more rainfall than places like it is, it can rain quite a bit, you get these storms, but I I, I think it takes a long time to erode granite that far and um the stuff that's been exposed and above, you know the, the mud, and when there was, there was clearly some sort of big mud flood that came in that knocked this stuff down.

02:03:03.000 Uh, the stuff that was been face down or buried in the mud has been quite well preserved and protected.

02:03:08.000 But oh, is this the film?

02:03:10.000 There's like one minute of underwater.

02:03:12.000 That's incapable.

02:03:13.000 Whatever that is, it looks incapable.

02:03:15.000 Underwater archaeology, yeah, gold ink and figuring.

02:03:18.000 Well, the Inca were definitely there at the lake.

02:03:20.000 There's the island Of The Sun, Island Of The Moon.

02:03:22.000 That's incapacitated.

02:03:26.000 Well, you should see, makes reminds me of, like the.

02:03:29.000 You should have seen some of the pottery they make bro, like they was uh, we were making, I was making photoshops of my friends with it there's.

02:03:34.000 It's literally like dick and balls and like all this pottery it's.

02:03:38.000 They have this whole erotic section of um, the Laco Museum and it's it's.

02:03:42.000 It's always good for a little giggle, but so is.

02:03:44.000 Is it safe to say that less exploration has been done at this site?

02:03:48.000 Yes, for sure.

02:03:49.000 It's still being slowly excavated, but yeah, this isn't.

02:03:53.000 I mean it's.

02:03:54.000 The wheels are grinding slowly.

02:03:55.000 They're slowly trying to renovate, they're trying to encourage tourism, but there's not.

02:03:59.000 There's so much of that site that needs to be dug up?

02:04:01.000 It hasn't had anything like the attention Egypt has.

02:04:01.000 It's not.

02:04:03.000 Is there the same sort of pushback against dating?

02:04:08.000 For sure, one guy, but it's the same everywhere.

02:04:10.000 Yeah yeah, it's so.

02:04:11.000 It's a like a human characteristic of people that are in control of a narrow.

02:04:14.000 They don't well, it's tough to explain.

02:04:16.000 There's just that they don't want to deal with this possibility of a culture down there. 1.00

02:04:19.000 That's that old.

02:04:20.000 I think it upsets too many other apple carts.

02:04:23.000 So to I feel like it's been, it's been, it's it's kind of been.

02:04:27.000 Well, we found these carbon dates it this fits kind of the timeline of what the INCA said too, because the Inca talk about emerging from lake Titicaca and going north, being pushed out by the Amara people, and if you think that okay, the INCA arrived in the sacred valley from the south around 1200, between 1100 and 1200 a day, so therefore they might have been at Tiwanaku at 1100 a d.

02:04:48.000 So that's, it's kind of fits that timeline, but it doesn't mean anything like the INCA could have been down, that the Tiwanaka could have been there forever right, I think, the INCA sure, that's the timeline for that civilization, but and as we've established everywhere you see, people put a civilization on top of an older.

02:05:04.000 Oh, that's yeah, 100.

02:05:05.000 The Inca were like very respectful.

02:05:07.000 This is the other thing about the architecture in that part of the world.

02:05:10.000 The layers are very respect, other than the Spanish. 1.00

02:05:14.000 They smashed it all up.

02:05:15.000 But the Inca were very respectful and trying, they tried to rebuild even.

02:05:20.000 Like where they could rebuild megalithic structures, they would.

02:05:23.000 Here's a great example.

02:05:24.000 And I also think a great example of why it's not possible that the Inca did all of this because it's in such a short period of time.

02:05:34.000 Again, their civilization lasted barely a couple hundred years.

02:05:37.000 And there's so much of it, of this stonework, and it's just complete night and day difference.

02:05:42.000 So in Cusco, there were like 13 high Incas, these kings of the Inca Empire, like the high Inca, the big, big dude.

02:05:50.000 And he had his court with his advisors.

02:05:53.000 They called him a Panaka.

02:05:55.000 And it was a hereditary thing.

02:05:57.000 So the son would inherit and he'd make his own panaka, his own people. 0.97

02:06:00.000 He'd also have his own palace.

02:06:02.000 You couldn't live, like the son couldn't live in the house of the father.

02:06:05.000 So they would build another spot in Cusco in this city.

02:06:09.000 Cusco is a crazy city.

02:06:10.000 It's like megalithic, Inca, colonial Spanish, modern, all piled up on each other. 0.91

02:06:15.000 It's an amazing city.

02:06:17.000 But if you actually look at where these courts were, like starting with Monco Capac, the first sort of Hay Inca around 1200 AD, you have the first seven or eight of these Hay Inca, when they would build their structures and their palace, they would rebuild like a megalithic courtyard.

02:06:33.000 It'd be these big, massive stones, or they'd inhabit and they'd repair it.

02:06:37.000 They'd have these huge, big megalithic courtyards.

02:06:40.000 But as soon as they switched from, I think the 8th to the 9th or the 7th to the 8th, it's all small cobblestones.

02:06:48.000 It's just all of their courtyards, like their palaces, were made from small local stones stuck together with mud mortar.

02:06:55.000 It's like, well, hang on.

02:06:57.000 Are you saying that if you say that the Inca built all of this stone, then all of a sudden you're saying, well, between one generation and the next, you lost all of this capability to do the fancy stuff, the big stuff, which doesn't make any sense.

02:07:09.000 It's much more likely what they did was they found an abandoned, ruined megalithic city.

02:07:14.000 They rebuilt it and they ran out of megalithic courtyards to renovate for their next king.

02:07:20.000 That's what happened.

02:07:21.000 So the first bunch of these Hayinkas have these megalithic courtyards and then the next, right up to the end, they're made from small local cobblestones. 1.00

02:07:28.000 It's like, were they just not special enough for the big special stonework?

02:07:34.000 You can't imagine within such a small couple centuries that they lose all that capability.

02:07:41.000 It's just not, none of it makes sense.

02:07:43.000 The only thing that makes sense when you look at that architecture down there is, yeah, they were rebuilding older stonework.

02:07:50.000 They were repairing it.

02:07:51.000 They were putting their stuff back on top of it.

02:07:53.000 I mean, there's so many amazing – Iante Tambo is one of my favourite sites down there just because it's so obvious.

02:08:00.000 There's these giant 80, 90 ton granite blocks that make up this structure and it's fallen apart.

02:08:07.000 And then they've tried to move these things and in between them, they've just stacked all these little local crappy little stones in between them.

02:08:13.000 Do you have any images of that?

02:08:14.000 I have the Oyente Tambo directory, tons of pictures.

02:08:18.000 And in fact, that's a whole other interesting story because that place is another example of what you see a lot of in Egypt, which is this phenomenon of just something happened and they went tools down.

02:08:31.000 We're not finished.

02:08:32.000 We're in the process of doing stuff and just drop work, leave.

02:08:35.000 Whatever happens, cataclysm, social club, something happened.

02:08:38.000 Because we know a lot about Oyente Tambo.

02:08:42.000 It's at the top of a mountain in the sacred valley.

02:08:45.000 Yeah, so this is a great example of the rocks on top of this stuff.

02:08:48.000 Yeah.

02:08:49.000 But there's a great little drone video, actually.

02:08:52.000 One of the videos in there is a drone shot from the top of this.

02:08:55.000 It's at the top of this steep mountain.

02:08:57.000 They built this structure.

02:09:00.000 No, go back one.

02:09:02.000 No, that's at the quarry.

02:09:03.000 So I'm standing on one of the stones.

02:09:05.000 So yeah, that's it there.

02:09:06.000 And at the top of this are these giant 80-ton granite blocks that make up this central, they call it a sun temple.

02:09:15.000 And we know where those come from.

02:09:16.000 It's like if you imagine this giant mountain, there's a big old valley to the left of it, and then another giant mountain.

02:09:21.000 And at the top of that other giant mountain is the quarry for this granite.

02:09:24.000 It's about five, six miles as the crow flies, but it's probably like 10 or 12 to walk it.

02:09:30.000 And I've walked it, we've climbed up to that quarry.

02:09:32.000 And all the way along this path, they have what are called these tired stones, which are giant blocks of granite that they just dropped.

02:09:41.000 They just left them there.

02:09:42.000 Tired stones.

02:09:43.000 They called the tired stones.

02:09:44.000 Yeah.

02:09:45.000 And in fact, there's a road.

02:09:46.000 If you see in the very bottom left here, there's a road that they built.

02:09:49.000 And if you look at some of these other images, I'm standing on some of these rocks.

02:09:53.000 This one, this is one of the examples.

02:09:55.000 They had to build the road around it, the modern road around it.

02:09:58.000 And this block, when you pace it out and measure it, it's probably not less than 90 tons of granite.

02:10:04.000 And I mean, we couldn't, I mean, shit, the equipment to try and move this on this would destroy this road to try and lift this.

02:10:11.000 But there's dozens, there's like a dozen or more of these things all the way up to the quarry at Ollante Tambo.

02:10:18.000 But it's just again, it's very obvious that the Inca rebuilt this.

02:10:22.000 But something happened here where they went tools.

02:10:24.000 Yeah, these are the big 80-ton blocks in the center of it.

02:10:29.000 And this is one of the examples I love to show people.

02:10:32.000 It's like, okay, you're telling me the same people did all of this stonework stuff in the middle, and like this little filler work in here.

02:10:39.000 Yeah.

02:10:40.000 If we weren't attached to a timeline, it would be way more likely that what you're saying is correct, especially when you're looking at it like this.

02:10:47.000 Look at the massive stones and the way they're cut and then what's above them.

02:10:50.000 Yeah.

02:10:51.000 Yeah.

02:10:52.000 Wild stuff, man.

02:10:53.000 It really is.

02:10:55.000 What happened?

02:10:56.000 And the evidence of the mud.

02:10:57.000 That's the other thing.

02:10:59.000 For sure, yeah, at Tiwanaki, yes, there was a huge – and something happening, like a cataclysm happening.

02:11:04.000 Look at these blocks.

02:11:05.000 These big blocks are scattered around.

02:11:07.000 Something knocked this structure over.

02:11:10.000 And these are huge blocks of stone.

02:11:13.000 What had to happen to cause that?

02:11:15.000 That's a good example of the Hananpacha, the carved bedrock.

02:11:18.000 You see a lot of this crazy stuff.

02:11:19.000 In fact, there's also tool marks here.

02:11:22.000 Like in one of the big Hunan Pacha, if you look, there's like a cross, there's like a grid of cuts in one of these pictures here, Jamie. 0.80

02:11:28.000 That one's nuts because go back, look at that.

02:11:30.000 That one's nuts because it was removed.

02:11:32.000 So people often say, well, this Hunan Pacha is a quarry.

02:11:32.000 Right.

02:11:36.000 I'm like, really?

02:11:38.000 I usually, I like this.

02:11:38.000 That's not a quarry.

02:11:39.000 There's many examples like this where this isn't a quarry.

02:11:42.000 How do you make the back?

02:11:43.000 If you're trying to take a block of stone out, how are you making a back cut?

02:11:47.000 You can't.

02:11:48.000 It's like a box.

02:11:49.000 You have to cut it out.

02:11:50.000 Right.

02:11:51.000 Deliberately shaped.

02:11:52.000 And that block is not.

02:11:56.000 No.

02:11:56.000 I think it was.

02:11:56.000 No.

02:11:57.000 I think we think we were talking a lot about this.

02:12:00.000 Most likely it was meant to house something.

02:12:03.000 Either other stone or something else was going on here.

02:12:05.000 This is stuff that's since been removed.

02:12:08.000 And in fact, in one of these pictures, there's like a semicircle with all these cut grid lines in them.

02:12:14.000 Yeah, these are more lazy tired stones out in the fields.

02:12:17.000 You go marching around in these cornfields and you find them all over the place down here.

02:12:21.000 It's great.

02:12:23.000 That's so strange.

02:12:24.000 It's a very, this is the thing.

02:12:25.000 Here we go.

02:12:26.000 So if you zoom in on that, so this is up the hill.

02:12:30.000 And these are cut marks.

02:12:32.000 There's like a grid pattern that's been cut into the stone.

02:12:36.000 I don't know how with what, but you actually, you can't see this from the ground.

02:12:40.000 And we were super lucky and that there was a huge festival going on in the town, and all the guards were at the festival.

02:12:46.000 So they'd never let you get up here otherwise.

02:12:48.000 We climbed up this halfway up in this mountain to get a picture of those cut lines, which is, again, not attributable to the very basic tools that the Inca had, right?

02:12:57.000 Barely in the Bronze Age.

02:12:58.000 This is nuts.

02:12:59.000 Yeah, so this is that drone footage.

02:13:01.000 Also, because the guards weren't there, they would have gone nuts if they'd caught us droning.

02:13:06.000 Oh, really?

02:13:06.000 They don't like you droning?

02:13:08.000 No, no, can't do this.

02:13:10.000 Why so many restrictions?

02:13:12.000 I mean, wouldn't this all this, especially from someone like you, wouldn't all this encourage tourism?

02:13:17.000 I think you'd think so, but it's not the case.

02:13:19.000 In fact, they're getting worse, unfortunately, in parts of Peru, just in terms of the ropes and the restricted areas you can't go to.

02:13:26.000 Machu Picchu, unfortunately, you can't get to the famous hitching post of the sun or the central megalithic area.

02:13:33.000 Just looking at this drone footage, there's such a clear difference between the original stone that's below and then the stuff that the more modern people built above it.

02:13:43.000 There's such a difference in the way the stone is constructed.

02:13:48.000 Wild stuff, man.

02:13:49.000 It's night and day.

02:13:50.000 So this is what I like about South.

02:13:51.000 Once you see it in South America, it's very clear because you just, you know, again, in Egypt, you just had a longer ancient civilization that were able to develop higher capabilities than, say, the Inca did.

02:14:02.000 In fact, the quarry for this stone is way on that other mountain across the valley at the top.

02:14:07.000 You can't quite see it, but it's, you know, they hauled these big blocks over very difficult terrain at height.

02:14:13.000 This is still 10,000 feet.

02:14:14.000 And what is the largest of these stones?

02:14:17.000 It'd be 100 tons at least.

02:14:19.000 I mean, it's Saksaywaman, you're closer to 200 tons.

02:14:23.000 I think at Tiwanaku, the biggest sandstone block, I might be rising, something like almost 300, 400, something like that, 300 maybe.

02:14:30.000 And the big red sandstone block.

02:14:32.000 Are those cross marks as the etchings of the stone?

02:14:37.000 Is that the only evidence of tool marks?

02:14:39.000 No, we've seen others, particularly in Tiwanaku.

02:14:41.000 I mean, this is actually up at the quarry, so this is up that other mountain we hiked up.

02:14:48.000 And I can't imagine trying to carry a ton of rocks up here.

02:14:51.000 This was hard enough.

02:14:52.000 But yeah, so in Tiwanaku, you certainly see a lot more evidence for tool marks.

02:14:59.000 In South America, you have tubular drills.

02:15:03.000 You have all sorts of kind of crazy what look like tool marks and functional aspects of stone in particularly places like the Coricantia, which is the big central structure in Cusco.

02:15:15.000 It was this, today it's a Catholic church, but it's megalithic and the inside walls have all, I mean, some of the blocks have been put out and are on display and there's a lot of the inside structures that are still there.

02:15:24.000 Yeah, there are similar sort of tube drills that have been cut.

02:15:28.000 There is a lot of similarities to some of the tools that you see in megalithic Egypt.

02:15:35.000 So I think it's an offshoot.

02:15:37.000 I mean, if I was to bet, I would say it's either the same or an offshoot of the same civilization that did the megalithic stuff in the other parts of the world, for sure.

02:15:45.000 Like it's just the megalithic work itself.

02:15:48.000 It's just like there's skyscrapers in Tokyo.

02:15:51.000 Boom.

02:15:51.000 That's it.

02:15:52.000 It's like, you know, the reductionists and the skeptics will say, well, it's solving this, you know, it's like trying a guy that you want to kill an animal, you make a flint arrowhead or whatever, right?

02:15:52.000 Yeah.

02:16:05.000 And I can understand that process where you are solving a problem and getting at it the same way.

02:16:11.000 However, when it comes to walls, like stone walls, I'm very skeptical that two completely separate cultures found the most difficult, the most complex, the hardest way to make a stone wall and chose that.

02:16:25.000 Because that's what megalithic walls are.

02:16:27.000 Like these giant blocks that are perfectly shaped together.

02:16:31.000 This is the thing, man.

02:16:32.000 In Cusco and in these streets, when you look at some of them have been shaken apart from earthquakes.

02:16:37.000 So you can see they're complex, like they're curved.

02:16:42.000 Not only does the line, it's not straight, so the lines curve where they join, the face angles change.

02:16:48.000 So it changes this way, but also the face angle changes and they perfectly match.

02:16:55.000 It's mind-boggling to understand how they might have actually put those stones together.

02:17:00.000 This is why it does lead people to the geopolymer ideas or stone softening.

02:17:05.000 My buddy Kyle, Brothers of the Serpent podcast, who travels with us, he has a great idea that it might have been a resonance thing where you're actually resonating and grinding stones together slowly.

02:17:17.000 So once, you know, you basically they'll match eventually if you're just like grinding.

02:17:21.000 There are jewelers' tools like that do similar things.

02:17:24.000 You can cut through, you know, they do it on real small stones, but you can cut through granite with a star shape or whatever with these jewelers' tools that get to the right resonant frequency and they just sort of grind through like an ultrasonic drill or something that cuts and just vibrates its way through.

02:17:39.000 If you turn it off while it's in there, it's like Excalibur, right?

02:17:42.000 It's stuck in the stone real tight.

02:17:44.000 You have to have this, but obviously you're talking some advanced technological capability to be able to vibrate a 50-ton stone to make it grind into its neighbor.

02:17:53.000 But it's about the most plausible thing I've heard because I can't imagine that this was done by, oh, we lift it up, we measure it, we mark the high spots, we rub it down, we take, you know, we put it back up, and it's saying this for stones that are 150 tons is just not, it's not happening like that.

02:18:09.000 Yeah, let's pull up some images of what you're talking about, these very bizarre shapes that they're perfectly matched to fit into each other like a jigsaw puzzle.

02:18:17.000 I think in the South America directory there, Jamie, there'll be some walls, some of the walls in the streets across the street.

02:18:22.000 The speculation is that they did it in these shapes to protect against earthquakes.

02:18:26.000 One of them, that's the Coricancha.

02:18:28.000 There's the wavy lines.

02:18:28.000 Keep going.

02:18:30.000 Yeah, this stuff, right?

02:18:30.000 Yeah, this stuff.

02:18:31.000 This is like the Inca Roka wall.

02:18:33.000 And there's probably some pictures of the broken sections where you can see these inside joins.

02:18:37.000 That's Sacsay Huaman.

02:18:38.000 So it's the same thing, just a much bigger scale.

02:18:42.000 Weird.

02:18:43.000 That's some weird, bizarre stuff.

02:18:45.000 Weird stuff.

02:18:45.000 Go back to the curvy.

02:18:48.000 What's that?

02:18:48.000 The curvy ones back the way you wanted to.

02:18:50.000 Yeah, this one.

02:18:50.000 Yeah, that one.

02:18:51.000 That one.

02:18:51.000 This green one.

02:18:52.000 That's nuts, man.

02:18:54.000 What are the nubs?

02:18:55.000 I don't know.

02:18:56.000 No one knows, right?

02:18:57.000 We talked about the nubs endlessly.

02:18:59.000 Yeah, people, all sorts of speculation.

02:19:01.000 Like, people have geopolymer explanations for them.

02:19:04.000 People have, you know, a lot of people try to say they're lifting bosses, and that's not how they would flip over.

02:19:10.000 They're not in the right place.

02:19:12.000 One thing's for certain, I think, with the nubs that is an observation a friend of ours, Chuck, a geologist, made, which is that if you look at how stone is quarried, right?

02:19:23.000 So one of the common methods still used to some extent today, but certainly is attributed to cultures like this and the Egyptians, is what they call the wedge and feather quarrying, right?

02:19:32.000 You cut these little wedges out and then you hammer in either wood and wet it and you're trying to split stone, basically.

02:19:40.000 And they still do it today.

02:19:42.000 One thing you'll never be left with in a splitting or a wedge and feather approach is a nub.

02:19:47.000 Like you can imagine, you can't imagine these stone faces splitting and leaving these bloody nubs that are on all of these walls.

02:19:53.000 So they're formed.

02:19:55.000 They're formed, either deliberately formed or they're a result of some other process, we don't know.

02:19:59.000 But they're not the result of this sort of primitive quarrying method.

02:20:06.000 I don't know where they are, but they're on everything.

02:20:08.000 And that's another thing.

02:20:08.000 It's another that they leave them there as well.

02:20:11.000 They're in Egypt too.

02:20:13.000 Like if you compare that wall to like the third pyramid, the Menkara pyramid, it's exactly the same.

02:20:17.000 I mean, it looks exactly the same.

02:20:18.000 The pillowy appearance on the not like unfinished.

02:20:21.000 Let's find an image of that.

02:20:23.000 Menkara pyramid.

02:20:24.000 Yeah, the granite.

02:20:25.000 It's just, it's so weird because they're not in a uniform position either.

02:20:30.000 And you know, there's, you find examples.

02:20:30.000 Nope.

02:20:35.000 There's been surface wear on a lot of this stone.

02:20:39.000 There's plenty of examples where it was very finely like reflective and polished originally.

02:20:43.000 So there's been spalling on the surface.

02:20:45.000 It feels rough today, but there are sections.

02:20:48.000 Yeah, so this is this is Menkara pyramid. 0.96

02:20:51.000 Looks the same.

02:20:52.000 Same kind of thing.

02:20:53.000 Yeah, nubs. 1.00

02:20:54.000 But a little larger.

02:20:55.000 In some places.

02:20:56.000 Those are big ones, but there's other ones that are smaller.

02:21:00.000 Very much like that.

02:21:01.000 Yeah, that Facebook picture there, I guess, is a good nub picture.

02:21:05.000 But even in Menkara, there's some evidence that they were flattening some surfaces of the pyramid.

02:21:12.000 Whether or not they intended to flatten the whole thing, we don't know.

02:21:15.000 Funnily enough, they have actually found that there's probably another hidden entrance to this behind that blank flattened wall there on the Turkey Today airfield anomalies under Menkara Pyramid.

02:21:25.000 Yeah.

02:21:26.000 So this is on the well that the eastern side, I guess, of the pyramid.

02:21:31.000 Yeah, the eastern side where the pyramid temple is.

02:21:34.000 The entrance is in the north, but there's a flattened part of this wall on the eastern side, and they've been hitting that with like a ground, like a radar thing, and they found that there are some anomalies behind there, so there might well be an entrance behind this wall.

02:21:48.000 Yeah, that looks a little odd.

02:21:49.000 Like that wall looks a little different than the surrounding stone.

02:21:53.000 Well, for sure.

02:21:54.000 Then there's some evidence that they had a patch like that.

02:21:56.000 One of the hypotheses, again, I got to credit Colin Russ from Brothers construction guy.

02:22:02.000 So they look at this stuff and they have a great theory about this because a lot of the decasing stones are missing on the back, but we found blocks that were smooth like that with the angle for the other side.

02:22:13.000 So what I think there were probably four patches like that.

02:22:17.000 Now, what you could be, one possible explanation for this is like, well, you very carefully grind and finish a section on each side because that sets your angle.

02:22:27.000 Once you set your angle, you can use that patch as a reference point to then basically try to finish the whole rest of the pyramid at that exact angle.

02:22:35.000 So you've got to start somewhere.

02:22:38.000 You very carefully set your angle correctly on that patch, and then you can use that as a reference to then smooth out the rest of the surface.

02:22:45.000 Which you say, smooth out.

02:22:48.000 In places, it's this much granite you've got to remove.

02:22:51.000 Like a foot of granite's got to come off these stones to get down to that level.

02:22:54.000 They're so pillowy.

02:22:56.000 Pillowy, it's granite.

02:22:58.000 I mean, I just, it boggles the mind.

02:23:00.000 It's like they were using that scooping tool or whatever to do it.

02:23:04.000 Are there competing theories as to what the nubs are for, other than like using it to lift the stone somehow?

02:23:11.000 Yeah.

02:23:13.000 You know, some people suggest some of them may have been like little, you know, the really, there are different types of nubs.

02:23:19.000 The subtle ones, not all workers lifting nubs.

02:23:23.000 Some people say in the geopolymer world where they say, well, stones were formed or cast, they'll say, well, these are like heat expansion points.

02:23:32.000 I've heard good theories from certain people that suggest it had something to do with the mass of the stone, like a resonant free, like as you change the mass of a stone, whatever resonant frequency it has might alter.

02:23:44.000 Because you also have scoops.

02:23:45.000 You have nubs and you have scoops. 1.00

02:23:47.000 So you seem to have this reduction of mass and then there's more mass in another place.

02:23:51.000 So maybe it had something to do with it.

02:23:52.000 These are different theories I've heard.

02:23:54.000 I don't have a good explanation for them.

02:23:56.000 It's so weird how it never comes up again in human history.

02:24:00.000 Yeah, we don't make stuff with nubs. 0.99

02:24:02.000 It's weird.

02:24:03.000 It is really weird.

02:24:04.000 Well, it's a commonality.

02:24:05.000 It's one of those other indicators.

02:24:06.000 It's like, hey, this is the same.

02:24:08.000 How come this is the same?

02:24:09.000 Isn't it in Japan as well?

02:24:11.000 Yeah, there's places in Japan.

02:24:12.000 I mean, that's a place I want to – I've been there.

02:24:14.000 I've just not explored all those sites.

02:24:17.000 Yes, there's some really megalithic stonework in Japan that actually matches a lot of the stuff in Peru.

02:24:23.000 See if you can find some of that, Jamie, please.

02:24:25.000 Yeah.

02:24:26.000 What's that, bro?

02:24:27.000 I'm looking on a different ones.

02:24:28.000 Oh, wow.

02:24:28.000 Where's that?

02:24:29.000 That looks like Turkey.

02:24:30.000 Turkey.

02:24:31.000 Turkey's another one. 1.00

02:24:33.000 Those are more consistent nubs, I would say.

02:24:36.000 Fairly, right?

02:24:37.000 They're like a bit more...

02:24:38.000 A little more.

02:24:40.000 A bit more deliberate.

02:24:41.000 There's also a lip on that.

02:24:42.000 Still weird.

02:24:43.000 It is.

02:24:44.000 It's like, what are you doing?

02:24:45.000 Are you copying other people?

02:24:48.000 That's a possibility for sure, because we're very good at that, too.

02:24:50.000 You do see a lot of imitation.

02:24:52.000 Right.

02:24:53.000 Who taught you to do it?

02:24:54.000 Yeah, There's a few people really obsessed with the stone nubs, and I can see why.

02:25:01.000 Like, it is a real mystery.

02:25:02.000 See, those ones, that's an Oyente Tambo. 1.00

02:25:05.000 Those are bedrock nubs, too.

02:25:06.000 Those aren't even in blocks.

02:25:07.000 That's in bedrock.

02:25:08.000 And those are a bit more deliberate, I would say.

02:25:11.000 Like, they're more like maybe they're shadow and markers for like some sort of calendar.

02:25:18.000 This is part of the Coricantia.

02:25:21.000 They're big square ones.

02:25:22.000 I don't know what that's for.

02:25:23.000 They're different again.

02:25:26.000 What is your take on that sage wall in Montana?

02:25:30.000 I haven't been there and seen it.

02:25:31.000 I've been wanting to.

02:25:32.000 It's weird.

02:25:34.000 I've heard differing opinions on that.

02:25:36.000 Like, it's possibly – I'd like to see it for myself, to be honest.

02:25:40.000 I've seen some footage of it.

02:25:42.000 China.

02:25:44.000 That looks like Yangshan.

02:25:45.000 Yeah, that's Yangshan Quarry.

02:25:47.000 And that's giant too, by the way.

02:25:49.000 The Yangshan quarry is thousands of tons.

02:25:52.000 If they'd ever cut that block off, it's something like, I don't know, some astronomical.

02:25:55.000 Oh, yeah, I watched a piece on this YouTube thing.

02:25:58.000 Yeah, you see it there.

02:25:58.000 It's monstrous.

02:26:00.000 What is the timeline of this stuff?

02:26:02.000 I believe.

02:26:03.000 I don't off the top of my head.

02:26:04.000 Maybe, Jamie, you can find out.

02:26:06.000 Ask your AI.

02:26:07.000 Ming Dynasty, right? 0.93

02:26:08.000 Yeah, they say the story on that is like some ruler said, like, carve me a dragon.

02:26:13.000 They're like, sure, boss.

02:26:14.000 And they started trying to get this block out.

02:26:15.000 And then eventually some foreman went, yeah, maybe we can't deal with this stone anymore.

02:26:19.000 And they left it.

02:26:20.000 Doesn't seem real plausible to me.

02:26:22.000 That's the size of the Yangshan quarry block, right?

02:26:25.000 Oh, my God.

02:26:27.000 Yeah, thousands of tons of that.

02:26:29.000 And what they were doing there, I do not know.

02:26:32.000 And I do not know when they did it.

02:26:35.000 That's the weird thing.

02:26:37.000 There's so many sites.

02:26:39.000 Those nubs would be huge. 1.00

02:26:41.000 They're huge.

02:26:42.000 Huge nubs.

02:26:43.000 Yeah, they're different.

02:26:44.000 But it's like, what do they represent?

02:26:45.000 Well, so another option, I mean, something else I've heard is that in some places they could have been mounting points for something that was grabbing them or hanging onto them, some tool to finish the wall.

02:26:54.000 That was another theory.

02:26:55.000 Or a structure around them.

02:26:56.000 Yeah, a structure from.

02:26:58.000 Base.

02:26:59.000 And now the Japan ones, Jamie, did you find anything?

02:27:02.000 I was just looking around.

02:27:03.000 That's different.

02:27:04.000 Did you go Japan megaliths, maybe?

02:27:07.000 I mean, India, the Barabar Caves is another one of these mysteries that fits this box.

02:27:12.000 Do you ever heard of the Barabar Caves in India?

02:27:15.000 No.

02:27:15.000 Oh, my Lord.

02:27:16.000 That's a whole other.

02:27:17.000 These are in Japan.

02:27:18.000 Which one do you remember?

02:27:19.000 This is Japan.

02:27:20.000 Yeah, this one in particular, the...

02:27:21.000 Whoa.

02:27:22.000 Click on that one that you just had your cursor on.

02:27:24.000 That's nuts.

02:27:25.000 I think that's AI.

02:27:26.000 Is it?

02:27:27.000 That thing looks AI.

02:27:28.000 The one-powered one.

02:27:30.000 The one on the left, just next to it, the medium one, that's definitely – and below it actually is a better picture, the Asuka megaliths.

02:27:40.000 Yeah.

02:27:40.000 So this matches a lot of the stuff in Peru to me.

02:27:42.000 And even the Imperial Palace, the cornerstones and corner blocks of the Imperial Palace there, the wall, is very megalithic.

02:27:52.000 Whoa.

02:27:53.000 And in fact, it's funny.

02:27:54.000 They've actually been digging up the foundations.

02:27:56.000 My wife was there recently, and they've gone underground and they've found original foundations and big walls, and they've just opened some of that up to the public.

02:28:07.000 Yeah.

02:28:08.000 Some of this is very, I mean, this is totally Peru, Han and Pacho, if this is legit.

02:28:13.000 Wow.

02:28:15.000 It matches, right?

02:28:16.000 It's the same.

02:28:16.000 Yeah, the same kind of stuff.

02:28:18.000 Yeah.

02:28:19.000 And that's what's weird.

02:28:20.000 It's like, is this a traveling civilization?

02:28:23.000 Is civilization uniform all around the world at a certain point in time?

02:28:27.000 I think it was global.

02:28:28.000 Yeah.

02:28:29.000 I think it was global.

02:28:30.000 We're looking at the remnants of it.

02:28:31.000 Either, look at that.

02:28:32.000 Oh, my God.

02:28:33.000 Offshoots of it, too.

02:28:35.000 Looks like that thing in L.A. Potentially just, Jamie?

02:28:38.000 It looks like that giant boulder in L.A. at the museum.

02:28:41.000 You know, it's like sitting over the tunnel?

02:28:43.000 At LACMA?

02:28:44.000 Oh.

02:28:45.000 No?

02:28:45.000 I don't remember it.

02:28:48.000 I've tried to block LACMA out.

02:28:51.000 Look.

02:28:52.000 Oh, wow.

02:28:54.000 Kind of.

02:28:54.000 What is this?

02:28:55.000 Like a LA sculpture.

02:28:57.000 Museum of Modern Art.

02:28:59.000 It's blich. 0.97

02:29:00.000 You go there, it's like this.

02:29:01.000 This is a plexiglass box.

02:29:03.000 It's amazing.

02:29:04.000 Yeah, with a banana peel in it.

02:29:05.000 That kind of shit.

02:29:06.000 Yeah, I'm not a fan of modern art in India.

02:29:09.000 It's for dorks.

02:29:10.000 It looks similar.

02:29:11.000 Yeah, kind of.

02:29:12.000 You're right.

02:29:13.000 But not as cool.

02:29:14.000 Yeah, that one's cooler and obviously way fucking older.

02:29:17.000 It's just so weird how these megalithic structures are so consistent.

02:29:21.000 Whoa, look at that one.

02:29:23.000 That's nuts.

02:29:25.000 There's something like, looks like Cambodia, potentially Thailand.

02:29:25.000 Where is that?

02:29:28.000 Well, that was the other thing that we pulled up the other day, the temple in India.

02:29:33.000 The one that's cut entirely out of the mountain.

02:29:36.000 It starts with a K.

02:29:37.000 Yeah.

02:29:38.000 That's one.

02:29:38.000 Yeah, there's a lot in India too.

02:29:40.000 It's another place.

02:29:41.000 But it's made from granite.

02:29:44.000 It is cut out of granite.

02:29:45.000 If you look up Barabar Caves, that's also in India.

02:29:49.000 These are my friend Patrice Poyard, who runs a filmmaking company in France, has done an amazing documentary on Barabar.

02:29:57.000 And they've scanned them.

02:29:59.000 And these are caves cut into big granite outcroppings that are just massive, perfect on the inside.

02:30:08.000 It's mirror-finished granite within like a thousandth of an inch flatness on the insides.

02:30:16.000 And they have these crazy shapes.

02:30:18.000 Some of them have these circles, but then they have a whole other room in the back that's circular.

02:30:22.000 And that's an unfinished one.

02:30:25.000 Look on that doorway, please, Jeremy.

02:30:27.000 Yeah, right there.

02:30:28.000 Like, that's nuts, man.

02:30:30.000 The decoration there is added.

02:30:30.000 That's a lot of that.

02:30:32.000 That's probably later.

02:30:33.000 Again, it's the writing came later.

02:30:35.000 The original doorway is probably that one.

02:30:37.000 So the elephants over the top.

02:30:39.000 That's later.

02:30:40.000 Yeah, for sure.

02:30:41.000 There's an attribution of these is to, they were supposedly owned by a particular king who gave them to like a religious cult to get out of the rain.

02:30:51.000 But it's, it doesn't say anything about him making them.

02:30:55.000 They just.

02:30:56.000 Oh, wow.

02:30:57.000 If you go to the insides, is what's impressive in here.

02:30:59.000 It's the finishing of the granite.

02:31:01.000 They're mirror finished.

02:31:03.000 And it turns out with the scans, what they found is they're also like almost perfectly symmetrical.

02:31:07.000 Like they're not straight.

02:31:10.000 They tilt in at like a degree and a half exactly on both sides.

02:31:15.000 It's some of the most precise work in granite in single piece.

02:31:19.000 Again, it's one of those things where you can't make a single mistake.

02:31:23.000 And I mean, this is an imitation.

02:31:25.000 Like this is a later attempt to replicate it.

02:31:29.000 Yeah, look at that cow paddy hammer, whatever the one, the two in the middle there, yeah.

02:31:34.000 So this is, and you literally, it's reflects that, I mean, the acoustics in there are incredible, but this is granite and it's been polished to this mirror finish.

02:31:43.000 And then it's also been measured for flatness and geometry, and it's insanely accurate.

02:31:49.000 There's been a whole series of documentaries done.

02:31:52.000 You can see the mirror finish in it.

02:31:53.000 Wow.

02:31:54.000 And nobody knows.

02:31:55.000 There's nothing else quite like this anywhere.

02:31:56.000 It's like giant stone boxes.

02:31:58.000 Look at the size of that one.

02:32:00.000 Carved into a mountain.

02:32:01.000 Carved into a granite outcrop in a mountain, exactly.

02:32:03.000 Yeah.

02:32:04.000 There's seven or eight of them.

02:32:06.000 They're all in the same area.

02:32:07.000 Really hard to get to.

02:32:08.000 It's like you've got to rough it and camp and stuff to get out there.

02:32:10.000 But it's on my list.

02:32:12.000 Like, what's the conventional explanation of how they did this?

02:32:15.000 I mean, there are literally other examples of people hammering on them with trying to make replicas with the tools of the time.

02:32:24.000 And then it just jumps to this.

02:32:26.000 And it's just, there's no explanation for it other than that, well, they did it in order to let this religious sect out of the rain.

02:32:35.000 Because it's literally some of the really poorly inscribed, you know, it's like the Egyptian stuff.

02:32:40.000 It's like somebody hammered this text Sanskrit or whatever it is, and it says, oh, you know, this king gave this to these guys to get out of the monsoon.

02:32:49.000 It's the ancient version of Kilroy was here.

02:32:52.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:32:53.000 Kilroy was here.

02:32:54.000 Oh, Kilroy built this.

02:32:55.000 Yeah.

02:32:56.000 Wild.

02:32:56.000 Yep.

02:32:57.000 Little Timmy on the skyscraper.

02:32:59.000 I've never seen that before.

02:33:00.000 That's that's completely insane.

02:33:03.000 Patrice, I actually have his full documentary on my channel if people want it.

02:33:06.000 Can I go with the giant statue outside?

02:33:09.000 It's the Oya Quarry in Japan.

02:33:11.000 In Japan?

02:33:12.000 Whoa.

02:33:13.000 Is it an abandoned quarry?

02:33:15.000 Whoa.

02:33:16.000 Oh, this is like, we were in a quarry like this in Turkey.

02:33:19.000 It was absolutely incredible.

02:33:21.000 Whoa.

02:33:23.000 Look at the, in relationship to the size of the people that we're walking around.

02:33:26.000 Is this a salt quarry or is it limestone?

02:33:28.000 I can't tell.

02:33:29.000 I can look it up.

02:33:30.000 A lot of them are salt caverns, but we were inside.

02:33:33.000 So you have big quarries like this, underground quarries in China.

02:33:38.000 We were in Turkey and I have these amazing footage from this massive underground quarry, these caves that were carved in Turkey when we were there.

02:33:48.000 Look at this title.

02:33:49.000 Scientists discover this structure in Japan they claim humans could never have built. 0.67

02:33:54.000 Medium.

02:33:55.000 How's that?

02:33:56.000 How could humans have never built a quarry?

02:33:58.000 Yeah.

02:33:59.000 Just get clicks.

02:34:00.000 Yeah, you're just getting clicks, you sons of bitches. 1.00

02:34:02.000 That's the game.

02:34:03.000 Someone did it.

02:34:04.000 No one's saying it's not humans.

02:34:06.000 Just saying something was going on back then where they were way more advanced than we want to give them credit for.

02:34:12.000 And when you take into account the younger dryest impact theory and the natural catastrophes that undoubtedly have befallen many a civilization in the past, it all kind of makes sense.

02:34:24.000 It's weird how many people resist it.

02:34:26.000 That's the weird part.

02:34:28.000 It's like they want to cling so tightly to their preconceived notions of the history of the human race.

02:34:34.000 It's a weird thing, isn't it?

02:34:36.000 Like the history of civilization is one of those things that hasn't changed a whole lot in about 100 years.

02:34:40.000 Like the idea that civilization started with the Sumerians and the Mesopotamians 6,000 years ago and now we're here.

02:34:47.000 That idea has been around for a long time and it's just everything else around it has shifted such that I mean my, I hope, I really do hope that it's just that there's that the context, that the next generation of academics can take some of this context into account.

02:35:04.000 I think they will.

02:35:06.000 I think a lot of them are growing up listening to stuff like your show.

02:35:10.000 I think I think that's going to help, because there's a lot of people that are getting into archaeology now, a lot of young people that are a little bit more open-minded, and then they also encounter some of these very arrogant professors and people that have these ridiculous ideas and think that they should be the absolute gatekeeper of information, which is so crazy, because universities are a fairly new concept.

02:35:31.000 The idea that these people that are running these universities, they should be in charge of something this is a new thing.

02:35:37.000 They should be in charge.

02:35:38.000 They're the only ones that could figure it out.

02:35:40.000 They have the paper that's written, their name is written, it's framed on the wall.

02:35:44.000 You shut the fuck up. 0.87

02:35:45.000 They got the letters that.

02:35:46.000 That is literally insane, because you're dealing with something that it is not possible for everyone to know and you're not as into it as they are.

02:35:54.000 The thing is about, like they are not as into these ideas as you are.

02:35:58.000 You know what i'm saying.

02:35:59.000 Like you are chasing this shit down.

02:36:01.000 There's not a lot.

02:36:02.000 You are, and so is Jimmy Corsetti, and so is Graham Hancock, and so are many, many other people, and Randall Carlson Carlson and John Anthony West, rest in peace, when he was alive.

02:36:11.000 He was awesome.

02:36:13.000 Those people chasing down these ideas are way more into it than the people that are gatekeeping the information.

02:36:19.000 And they don't want to accept anything other than what they've been teaching and what they've been writing about.

02:36:25.000 Yeah, it's you're right.

02:36:26.000 There's a lot of, I mean, it's amazing that the medium has shifted to give people a voice, I guess, that are into it.

02:36:34.000 And my friend George Howard has a great way of explaining this in terms of a potential talent pool if you consider like, okay, so current academics, at least the ones that are the old guard now, have kind of been selected from the people that chose to go to university, that got into universities.

02:36:50.000 And you have this pool.

02:36:52.000 But now with the kind of the internet, and it's like you're exposing these ideas to such a wider variety of people that you can then, there's going to be people out there that think about these things a certain way.

02:37:03.000 Assess polymaths.

02:37:04.000 Assess polymaths that are going to be able to come forward and give those ideas.

02:37:08.000 And, you know, it's, I think, you know, the vast majority of significant breakthroughs in pretty much any scientific field have usually come from somewhere that's not within the box thinking.

02:37:18.000 It's usually anti-established or it's outside the box thinking.

02:37:22.000 Not always, but a lot of those ideas came from like, this has come complete from left field, like germ theory, all that sort of stuff.

02:37:28.000 It's like, what are you, you're crazy.

02:37:30.000 You've got this dumb idea and then turns out, ah, you know, 30, 40 years later, it's like, that was the right idea.

02:37:36.000 And we go from there.

02:37:37.000 I mean, I'm hopeful as well that, yeah, the next generation of academics will be able to embrace a lot of these, the context for some of these ideas, and then try to explore them because I think ultimately that's what's needed is some take some of these ideas seriously and bend some of our resources to try and explore them on the ground and in full because there's only,

02:38:00.000 you know, ultimately it's the people that have the control and are able to do the real on-the-ground research are the ones that will be able to confirm or change it.

02:38:09.000 But it takes real science in a lot of cases.

02:38:11.000 And also, we're currently obsessed with our impact on the environment, which is not a bad thing.

02:38:16.000 It's a good thing to be conscious and aware of our pollution and our emissions and all that good stuff.

02:38:21.000 But if we were absolutely certain that civilization has been utterly destroyed by something that is outside of our capacity to control, probably a good idea to know that that's happened.

02:38:36.000 Yes, 100%.

02:38:38.000 And to deny the possibility of even exploring that concept because people are going to get their feelings hurt because they're so bitchy to each other. 1.00

02:38:48.000 That's the craziest thing you find out about these academics.

02:38:50.000 They are so bitchy to each other. 1.00

02:38:52.000 When anybody has any sort of an idea that's heterodox, any sort of an idea that's outside of the narrative that they've been teaching forever, they attack each other's reputation.

02:39:02.000 They're a little sociopaths.

02:39:03.000 It is vicious.

02:39:04.000 Well, that's their version of the fight.

02:39:06.000 I guess it's the mean letters and the, yeah, it's, you know what I mean?

02:39:10.000 That's weird.

02:39:10.000 It is kind of weird.

02:39:12.000 But they're also in today's day and age of these shows where, like your show and all these other ones that we mentioned, there's a much more attractive approach to these ideas, you know, where people are not like bitchy authoritarians, but they're rather people that are absolutely fascinated by something that is undeniable.

02:39:33.000 The size of these stones, the similarity to them all over the world, all these different mysteries, the fact that many of them are covered in mud, the fact that enormous stones look they've been knocked off by some immense force.

02:39:44.000 Yeah.

02:39:45.000 Stuff that was left, just left there in the middle of construction.

02:39:48.000 Nobody ever picked it up.

02:39:49.000 Nobody ever finished it.

02:39:50.000 Like what happened?

02:39:52.000 Yeah, and it's really only not that long since we've had the ability to apply some of these disciplines to these problems, like engineering.

02:40:01.000 It's since the Industrial Revolution that we've even had enough background knowledge to kind of understand these problems because we have to solve them ourselves.

02:40:11.000 Or think about how Christopher Dunn approaches the idea of the Great Pyramid itself.

02:40:15.000 No one would have ever been able to do that 200 years ago.

02:40:18.000 Yeah.

02:40:18.000 That's what I'm saying.

02:40:19.000 100%.

02:40:21.000 It's these other disciplines that have a whole different take on it.

02:40:24.000 And it's, again, not a criticism of archaeologists to say they're not engineers.

02:40:28.000 They're not engineers.

02:40:29.000 It's just, yeah, it's a fact.

02:40:31.000 It's like I'm not a dentist.

02:40:33.000 I don't know much about.

02:40:34.000 You know what I mean?

02:40:35.000 I can't solve those problems.

02:40:36.000 Exactly.

02:40:37.000 No one can solve all problems.

02:40:38.000 Yeah, but hey, a dentist might have some input on some of these.

02:40:41.000 You know what I mean?

02:40:41.000 Like, you can, I think a lot of these problems are multidisciplinary, is what I'm saying.

02:40:46.000 Like, there's a lot of different approaches and angles to them that lead to some pretty interesting places.

02:40:51.000 It's funny to say that because my dentist is obsessed with UFOs.

02:40:54.000 Oh, really?

02:40:55.000 Super smart guy, obsessed with UFOs.

02:40:57.000 Trying to talk to you.

02:40:58.000 Every time he's doing my, what do you think?

02:41:00.000 What do you think that is?

02:41:00.000 I'm like, wah, wah, wah, wa-ha.

02:41:01.000 It's fun.

02:41:02.000 It's fun to talk to him.

02:41:03.000 I'll bet.

02:41:04.000 Yeah.

02:41:05.000 What else are you going to think about while you're feeling on something?

02:41:05.000 Yeah.

02:41:08.000 But it is a subject that is so important for us.

02:41:11.000 I mean, I'm watching the Ken Burns documentary right now in the Revolutionary War.

02:41:15.000 And it's really great.

02:41:16.000 Awesome.

02:41:16.000 Amazing.

02:41:17.000 Fascinating to look back at this very recent history, relatively speaking, to terms of the timeline of the Earth.

02:41:24.000 And then just realize, like, that ain't shit.

02:41:27.000 Yes.

02:41:28.000 And that's one of the reasons that drives me too is why it's, I think that's a big factor in why this is important.

02:41:36.000 It's altruistic, but I do believe that having if we could change that pillar of humanity from like, well, we were Stone Age and now we're a space age to the cyclical nature of we've been here, we've not been knocked down.

02:41:49.000 Be aware of the dangers, like solve the longer-term problem.

02:41:51.000 I do genuinely think like a whole generation that's exposed to that, that has that inbuilt as they're like, hey, background knowledge of what it means to be a human, then maybe we would solve those problems.

02:42:02.000 Yeah, maybe that's a constant test every 12,000 plus years.

02:42:06.000 It seems like it.

02:42:07.000 Yeah, it does seem like it.

02:42:09.000 And it seems like no one's really solved it yet.

02:42:11.000 You know, and we probably get a little smarter every time we do it.

02:42:16.000 But it takes forever and it probably sucks for a long time.

02:42:19.000 Well, it seems like it's not every 12,000 years or so is like there's definitely been events that are orders of magnitude greater than anything we've experienced in our the last several millennia.

02:42:31.000 You know, like a thousand Katrinas or whatever at a time kind of thing.

02:42:35.000 And there's evidence of like things like the Tunguska event, where like something a little bit more than we've experienced before happens, but nothing compared to what has experienced we've experienced or the Earth has experienced in the past.

02:42:48.000 No, for sure.

02:42:49.000 We've not experienced, we've, yeah, we've had, we've had nothing, but it does, if you go back the last couple hundred thousand years, it has this periodicity, it seems like, that does, for some reason, align with some of those, those 12,000 years and 26,000 years kind of cycles.

02:43:05.000 It's weird how that happens.

02:43:07.000 Including the depictions of Atlantis and the fall of Atlantis.

02:43:10.000 Well, yeah, I mean, that's all that exactly lines on with the time, lines up with the timelines.

02:43:14.000 It does.

02:43:15.000 Dude, your show is fucking awesome.

02:43:17.000 I love it.

02:43:18.000 I look forward to it every time you put a new episode out.

02:43:20.000 I really love it.

02:43:21.000 And I love every time you come in here and let's make this a regular thing, man.

02:43:24.000 I'd love that.

02:43:25.000 It's my favorite show.

02:43:27.000 I fucking love this subject so much.

02:43:30.000 It's so engaging.

02:43:32.000 It's so exciting.

02:43:33.000 You know, for whatever reason, there's just part of the human fascination with the past that gets ignited in me.

02:43:41.000 And it's so, I think the audience feels the same way.

02:43:45.000 It's like, it's so intriguing.

02:43:46.000 And I think you're right.

02:43:48.000 And I think Jimmy Corsetti's right and Graham Hancock's right.

02:43:50.000 I think all these people are right.

02:43:52.000 I think there's more to this story than we're being spoon-fed.

02:43:55.000 Thank you very much, sir.

02:43:56.000 My pleasure, brother.

02:43:57.000 Uncharted X, it's on YouTube.

02:43:59.000 Subscribe, like and subscribe.

02:44:00.000 It's fucking amazing.

02:44:02.000 And then you, what is your Instagram?

02:44:05.000 It's Uncharted X1 on Twitter and Uncharted X7 on Instagram.

02:44:09.000 I should probably fix that, but it is what it is.

02:44:11.000 As long as it's not 6-7.

02:44:11.000 Okay.

02:44:13.000 That's the new thing with the kids these days.

02:44:15.000 I heard about all that.

02:44:16.000 I've heard about it.

02:44:17.000 Thank you.

02:44:18.000 Appreciate you very much.

02:44:19.000 Peace, Joe.

02:44:20.000 Bye, everybody.

02:44:22.000 Thanks, bro.

02:44:23.000 Yeah.

02:44:24.000 I didn't want to force them, but I wanted to ask about that.

02:44:26.000 Oh, Shamir?

02:44:27.000 Yeah.

02:44:28.000 We can throw it back in.

02:44:29.000 Yeah, I can talk about it real quick.

02:44:30.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:44:31.000 You want to talk about it?

02:44:32.000 I can unend it.

02:44:34.000 Sorry, folks.

02:44:35.000 We unended it.

02:44:36.000 We unended it because Jamie had sent me this earlier today, Solomon's Shamir.

02:44:40.000 Yeah, the Shamir. 0.96

02:44:41.000 So you are familiar with it?

02:44:42.000 I am.

02:44:43.000 Okay.

02:44:43.000 Yeah.

02:44:44.000 So this is an ancient idea that there was a worm or a substance that had the power to cut through and disintegrate stone, iron, and diamond.

02:44:53.000 And Solomon is said to have used it in the building of the first temple in Jerusalem in place of cutting tools.

02:44:58.000 For the construction of Solomon's temple, which promoted peace, it was inappropriate to use tools that could also cause war and bloodshed.

02:45:06.000 Yep.

02:45:06.000 There's also, I found since we've been, since I sent that to you, there is an actual thing called a lethorio or something.

02:45:14.000 What?

02:45:15.000 That they found in the Philippines.

02:45:17.000 That does some sort of rock-eating worm. 0.96

02:45:21.000 Yeah.

02:45:22.000 The shamir is like Solomon's lightsaber, I like to call it. 1.00

02:45:25.000 Yeah, it's, it's, it is described, the shamir is described as a stone-cutting implementing eight through that.

02:45:35.000 So the guy who found it said he had never heard of the shamir.

02:45:38.000 Huh.

02:45:39.000 And some scientists don't know if they're even the same thing, but they do.

02:45:43.000 They're described very similarly.

02:45:46.000 What a creepy-looking motherfucker that thing is. 0.72

02:45:49.000 A rock-eating little worm.

02:45:51.000 Like grinding stone.

02:45:52.000 That's crazy.

02:45:55.000 There are a number of different depictions and descriptions for the shamir.

02:45:58.000 And one of the reasons one of the problems with it being like this thing that slowly grinds through.

02:46:06.000 Yeah, see, this is the weird part.

02:46:08.000 The shamir was meant to have always been wrapped in wool and stored in a container made of lead.

02:46:12.000 or the end of the container would burst and disintegrate.

02:46:14.000 So it's like...

02:46:15.000 Under the Shamir's gaze?

02:46:15.000 What?

02:46:17.000 All I had to do is look at it.

02:46:19.000 Whoa! 0.71

02:46:19.000 I don't think it had eyes. 0.71

02:46:20.000 So are we describing radiation or something?

02:46:23.000 Like, what are we describing?

02:46:25.000 Well, it gets into the realm of the Ark of the Covenant and everything else, too.

02:46:28.000 Wool and stored in lead?

02:46:31.000 That's nuts.

02:46:31.000 And then it lost its potency right after.

02:46:35.000 The dripping of the honeycomb.

02:46:35.000 Which I don't think.

02:46:36.000 I don't know what that is.

02:46:37.000 By the time of the destruction of the first temple during the siege of Jerusalem in 600 BC.

02:46:43.000 Yes.

02:46:44.000 But again, it still exists.

02:46:46.000 They found it today, like 2019, I think.

02:46:48.000 Well, they found a worm that does something similar.

02:46:50.000 It's a very similar worm.

02:46:51.000 That's the evolution of it.

02:46:52.000 Maybe they had a giant one.

02:46:55.000 Maybe they could have trained them to be able to train pigeons to do stuff.

02:46:59.000 Eat the wall.

02:47:00.000 He had to do it fast.

02:47:01.000 One of the things, too, they had to build that Temple of Solomon quickly so that he was like, we can't use the regular methods, but we also need to be able to cut stone quickly.

02:47:09.000 So one of the things the Shamir was described as doing is being able to cut these sort of hard stones. 0.56

02:47:14.000 Like I think it described like diamond even.

02:47:17.000 Yeah, as cutting it quickly.

02:47:19.000 The blood of the Shamir was used for diamonds, but this also said that he was not, he didn't find it.

02:47:22.000 It was given to him.

02:47:23.000 It's given to him.

02:47:24.000 A bird found it.

02:47:25.000 A bird.

02:47:26.000 A bird.

02:47:26.000 Someone noticed a bird was using it to make nests in rock.

02:47:30.000 And they're like, let's get the hold of that.

02:47:32.000 So, yeah, some people also speculate that there is a bird that vomits this thing or poops this thing that rocks which can melt rock.

02:47:40.000 The angel of the sea had then given the shamir to a bird. 0.73

02:47:45.000 Identified by the Talmud as a hoopie. 0.98

02:47:47.000 Yeah, but it's the oldest bird.

02:47:49.000 I believe this is like the where he had to go to several birds, which were also these spirits he talked to.

02:47:55.000 And I think he had to get to the very lightsaber.

02:47:57.000 The very last one.

02:47:58.000 It's a lightsaber they got from aliens.

02:48:01.000 It's a worm from a bird.

02:48:02.000 It's a lightsaber from aliens.

02:48:04.000 Radioactive alien lightsaber.

02:48:06.000 All right.

The Joe Rogan Experience - November 25, 2025

Joe Rogan Experience #2417 - Ben van Kerkwyk

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