The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2421 - Derek, More Plates More Dates

00:00:03.000 The Joe Rogan experience.

00:00:06.000 Drink my day, Joe Rogan, podcast by night, all day.

00:00:14.000 Tell me about your new drink.

00:00:15.000 Look at this here.

00:00:16.000 Red gummy fish.

00:00:17.000 I'm about to try it for the first time.

00:00:18.000 And this is a nootropic?

00:00:20.000 Yeah, so it's, I think on the first episode maybe that I did with you.

00:00:26.000 Robust, eh?

00:00:27.000 That's good.

00:00:27.000 Yeah.

00:00:28.000 Oh, that's delicious.

00:00:29.000 You mean robust?

00:00:30.000 You're saying it like a potentially flavor and I think it's great.

00:00:34.000 Oh, right on.

00:00:35.000 Red gummy fish.

00:00:36.000 It's fucking delicious.

00:00:37.000 I drank the shit out of this.

00:00:39.000 Oh, a lot of stuff in here.

00:00:39.000 Oh, I'm going to go.

00:00:40.000 What's in here?

00:00:41.000 So I think it was the first time I was on you asked me about Gorilla Mind and the nootropic formula that I used before podcasts and to get cognitively dialed.

00:00:51.000 And at the time, it was a capsule-based formula.

00:00:53.000 And it still is.

00:00:54.000 It still exists.

00:00:55.000 But taking what we could to suspend in a liquid format and getting it into something that's more like publicly and widely accepted and that they would want to drink on a regular basis and is something you could use daily.

00:01:07.000 It's kind of what we did in this.

00:01:08.000 So we included essentially like a daily use version of the Gorilla Mind formula, which includes the tyrosine precursor for dopamine as well as other neurotransmitters, catecholamines like adrenaline or adrenaline.

00:01:24.000 Also, Alpha GPC, most bioavailable form of choline.

00:01:28.000 It crosses the blood-brain barrier and is pretty efficacious and also just a good choline source in general, which most people are deficient in as a nutrient and I think completely unaware that it's actually important to be supplementing with potentially.

00:01:41.000 Pretty hard to get an adequate amount of choline.

00:01:44.000 What does it come from in food?

00:01:45.000 Liver is a good source, eggs.

00:01:48.000 And in general, it's just like the highly nutrition dense foods that you would get it from.

00:01:54.000 A lot of people aren't focusing on specifically either because of caloric density or it's like an animal-based like nose to tail thing or fill in the blank.

00:02:02.000 It's not impossible to do it.

00:02:03.000 A lot of people who focus on it could probably relatively easily, but it's still one of the things you have to focus on actually kind of like maneuvering into your diet typically.

00:02:14.000 So in general, most people are at least maybe like 50% of the way that are at best.

00:02:20.000 And that's even among people who I would say are relatively balanced diet individuals.

00:02:24.000 Interesting.

00:02:25.000 So I'm sure you're familiar with cholinergics and their impact on cognition and whatnot.

00:02:31.000 Caffeine, tried and true.

00:02:33.000 How much you got in here?

00:02:34.000 200 milligrams.

00:02:36.000 Very difficult decision trying to come up with what is the amount you're going to stick with in perpetuity in this thing.

00:02:42.000 Everyone's addicted now.

00:02:43.000 It's a real issue with caffeine.

00:02:45.000 So it's like the fine line balance of not too much, something that is still tolerable, sustainable, going to be widely accepted and widely impactful on a beneficial level, but not overdoing it and 200 is kind of what we landed on.

00:02:57.000 And then uridine monophosphate, pretty unique ingredient.

00:03:00.000 I haven't seen anybody ever include it in a drink, let alone even in supplements typically.

00:03:05.000 What is it?

00:03:06.000 So it's also something that operates via the cholinergic system, but in a different way.

00:03:12.000 Mainly it's utility is kind of enhancing your sensitivity to stimulants.

00:03:18.000 So somebody who is otherwise desensitized from like heightened exposure to things that either desensitize them to caffeine or nicotine or things of this nature, even something like the ADHD medications.

00:03:33.000 This can actually, at least the literature suggests strongly that it enhances dopamine neurotransmission potential.

00:03:39.000 So like almost restoring function and damaged dopamine producing neurons in the brain.

00:03:44.000 So you can kind of get a heightened impact out of the same level of stimulant.

00:03:49.000 So a caffeine dose that might otherwise be, you're used to it now, you start to feel it again more than you used to without having to increase your caffeine intake.

00:03:58.000 Yeah.

00:03:58.000 So it's a pretty cool ingredient and it seems to have some neuroprotective properties potentially as well.

00:04:04.000 And some interesting literature on like Alzheimer's and whatnot, but it's more like fringe and to be determined how impactful it is.

00:04:11.000 And then on top of that, we have L-thenine.

00:04:14.000 You're probably familiar with its effects, stacked with caffeine, increases alpha waves, good for verbal fluency, as well as just general attention, concentration, but keeping you a little bit more balanced and mellow while you have the heightened stimulatory activity from the caffeine and the other kind of like dopaminergic compounds.

00:04:32.000 And then also saffron extract, which is a totally unique inclusion in my opinion.

00:04:37.000 Still don't really see it in nootropic formulas, let alone in drinks.

00:04:40.000 And it's something that in literature has shown to be as efficacious as pharmaceutical SSRIs without inducing the same erectile dysfunction inducing effects of it and without causing the same anhedonia inducing effects, which is kind of like the muting of like pleasure in the brain.

00:05:00.000 So saffron.

00:05:01.000 Yeah, super interesting ingredient.

00:05:03.000 It seems to be pretty impactful for depression, for anti-anxiety, and it also operates through a seemingly different mechanism, even though it's often stacked up against SSRIs for its comparisons and outperforms them or matches it with a relative lack of side effects.

00:05:20.000 It is something that operates through seemingly antioxidant activity, some dopaminergic, some serotonergic, and just a little bit more of a benign way to achieve what is a similar outcome, but with a seemingly lower, if not negligible to non-existent side effect profile.

00:05:36.000 I'm not saying that's what our drink does.

00:05:38.000 I'm just saying that's what the literature on saffron does.

00:05:40.000 And anyone can go look that up and reference it.

00:05:42.000 And then who pairs the name?

00:05:44.000 Probably the most impactful acetylcholinesterase inhibitor that you can include alongside like choline precursors.

00:05:51.000 So it inhibits the breakdown of acetylcholine as opposed to being the fuel, like the precursor, like choline, acetyl, alpha-GPC, CDP choline.

00:06:00.000 These are things that provide the substrate to actually produce the acetylcholine, preventing the breakdown of it too.

00:06:06.000 Could otherwise get like a one-two punch where you get the heightened fuel substrate, but then also an inhibition of its breakdown.

00:06:13.000 So you have just like a heightened level of cognitive capacity through both like the one-two punch.

00:06:20.000 How did you determine these like doses and what you were going to include and not include?

00:06:28.000 So a lot of it derived from the original capsule-based formula.

00:06:32.000 So back in, I don't know, 2021, I had already been using this thing for daily use, essentially.

00:06:38.000 And it was something that was determined based upon years of experience, personal anecdotes, but digging through hordes of clinical literature ultimately.

00:06:49.000 There's a lot of these compounds that have clinical studies on them for different applications.

00:06:54.000 You can kind of sift through what are the efficacious dosages, where are they impactful, whereas a sustainable level, you could actually take this long term without it being negatively impactful on, because sometimes if you overdo it in one area over time, it might be problematic.

00:07:07.000 So trying to find the fine balance of where's a dose that moves the needle, but isn't going to kind of like push you in too far of a negative direction that it's unsustainable.

00:07:17.000 Because sometimes that this stuff, it's like a hammer solution.

00:07:22.000 You might see an energy drink that's like 300, 350 caffeine.

00:07:25.000 And it's like, okay, you know, you've essentially like singled out a lot of the customers who might otherwise benefit from it.

00:07:30.000 Even if there was other good stuff in the drink, it's like only stim junkies can use it now, you know?

00:07:36.000 So this is kind of like the fine balance of what I thought to be the most sustainable version of balancing, you know, dopamine input, serotonergic activity, getting some of that, you know, anti-anxiety support, and also getting a reasonable hit of caffeine.

00:07:51.000 And did you, so in pill form, so did you start out by using each individual supplement and then trying to use them in combination to see if there's a synergistic effect?

00:08:02.000 Like, how did you do it over time?

00:08:04.000 I guess maybe that's a bit more interesting than digging through literature, but when I was a university student, just like being a nerd mixing stuff in my kitchen like a chemist, essentially, and just measuring raw powders back, you know, in the day, what we would do, or at least, you know, like biohackers and what have you, we'd buy just like off of different websites, raw bulk ingredients, and then you'd measure out with little micro spoons in these laboratory increments to try and get, okay, the microgram equivalent of this.

00:08:32.000 And you'd make some disgusting shake with a concoction of different unflavored powders and create what is your ultimate kind of combination.

00:08:39.000 So trial and error, ultimately.

00:08:41.000 And were you like doing a diary?

00:08:43.000 Like, today I feel great.

00:08:45.000 Yeah, it's just keeping a log almost like, you know, working out like, how did you respond to filling in the blank?

00:08:50.000 Or did you take into account like sleep, all these different factors, diet?

00:08:56.000 Many variables at the time, obviously a bit more rudimentary and crude when you're like 21 years old and you're just trying to like get cognitively locked in to study for finals.

00:09:06.000 But back then it was just what is the most impactful things that I've heard work.

00:09:11.000 And then also digging further into literature, looking on the limited forums that existed back then online because it's a lot more of a like a niche community back then.

00:09:20.000 It's not like this was ever widely discussed.

00:09:23.000 20 2009, 2008.

00:09:26.000 Oh, early days.

00:09:27.000 Yeah.

00:09:28.000 That's when I first started fucking around with them.

00:09:30.000 Oh, yeah.

00:09:30.000 Yeah.

00:09:30.000 I first found out about Neuro One.

00:09:32.000 That was the first one I found out about.

00:09:34.000 Okay.

00:09:34.000 Did you ever try that one?

00:09:35.000 Neuro One.

00:09:36.000 It's Bill Romanowski's company, the football player.

00:09:39.000 So he developed it because he was having cognitive problems after years and years of playing football.

00:09:45.000 And so he came up with this formulation.

00:09:48.000 And I was doing this radio show, Alice and No Name in San Francisco.

00:09:51.000 And No Name's a dude.

00:09:53.000 I forgot his name, unfortunately.

00:09:55.000 I wrote it.

00:09:55.000 I wrote it so long ago.

00:09:58.000 But he was working out with Romanowski.

00:10:01.000 Romanowski was trying to get him in shape.

00:10:03.000 And he gave him this stuff.

00:10:04.000 He said, hey, try it.

00:10:05.000 And it was, you know, I do morning radio.

00:10:07.000 When you're promoting, like I was doing Cobb's Comedy Club, when you were doing a comedy club, you'd show, this is back in the day when radio meant something.

00:10:14.000 You'd show up in the morning and you'd do the morning drive.

00:10:17.000 And they would go, oh, Joe Rogan's appearing at the comedy club this weekend.

00:10:20.000 Come see him.

00:10:21.000 And you'd be funny on the radio and have a good time with the people.

00:10:23.000 And he gave it to me.

00:10:24.000 And I was like, hey, man, this stuff feels like something's going on.

00:10:28.000 Like, this is legit.

00:10:29.000 And that's what really got me in.

00:10:31.000 That's how we developed Alpha Brain. 0.60

00:10:32.000 We developed Alpha Brain after me trying out Neuro One saying, can we optimize this?

00:10:38.000 Is there another way to do this?

00:10:40.000 Is there, you know, other forms that we're missing?

00:10:43.000 But your formulation seems like very comprehensive and also fucking delicious.

00:10:49.000 Yeah, that's one of the difficult things too is making it taste good while still being able to suspend the active ingredients because they could just fall out of suspension or a myriad of different issues, carbonation problems, even exploding cans in transit that you're not predicting are going to react a certain way.

00:11:07.000 Even the black lids, dude, like it's stuff you don't even think of, but absorbing heat.

00:11:11.000 It's like, oh, it's going to be more prone to blowing up now because of that.

00:11:13.000 Oh, because of a black lid.

00:11:15.000 Did you want a black lid just for aesthetics?

00:11:16.000 Yeah, at the time, it was like this.

00:11:17.000 This looks cool.

00:11:18.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:11:19.000 And so what are you sweetening this stuff with?

00:11:22.000 Primarily sucralose, which obviously, you know, some people have their opinions on it, and that's totally fine and good.

00:11:29.000 But in general, based on clinical literature, seems to be well tolerated.

00:11:33.000 What is the issue with it that people have?

00:11:35.000 I think some people think it depends on the person and like the kind of content they make typically.

00:11:40.000 Typically, they have a bit of a bias.

00:11:42.000 Yeah, but in general, it's going to irritate your gut or it could cause GI distress.

00:11:47.000 And for some people with extremely sensitive gastrointestinal issues, it can for sure.

00:11:53.000 But in general, at the dosages used and just having it even conservatively, which most people are going to be, it's like pretty benign, at least from the literature I've seen.

00:12:02.000 One of the things that we had noticed when we first came out with AlphaBrain was for some people, it's a small amount, but for some people, they would get headaches and they felt terrible after taking it.

00:12:13.000 I don't know what their dose is.

00:12:14.000 I don't know if they were taking the recommended dose or if they were saying, well, two's good.

00:12:18.000 I'll take five.

00:12:19.000 There's a lot of folks like that out there.

00:12:21.000 But yeah, some of these, if you're not careful, it could be, you know, pushing you into like we vetted this out beforehand, but one of the first formulations or prototypes of Gorilla Mind in the capsule form, we had something called Velvet Bean Extract, which standardizes to L-Dopa.

00:12:40.000 So like Levo Dopa is used for like Parkinson's patients because it's a direct precursor to dopamine without a rate limiting step that kind of like in hit regulates the conversion.

00:12:51.000 So rather than using tyrosine, we were like, we thought, and we didn't end up releasing it because of this, we could just go, okay, let's get a straight precursor and see how impactful this thing is because we really want it to hit.

00:13:02.000 And oh my God, I had like dopamine overdose myself.

00:13:07.000 Had my girlfriend at the time also fuck herself up and my parents fuck themselves up.

00:13:12.000 And somehow it didn't, it didn't occur until like three incidents later.

00:13:18.000 I'm like, okay, this thing is unsustainable.

00:13:21.000 And I guess my business partners didn't really even think worth mentioning, which was kind of crazy at the time because they just trusted me to do the formulations and whatnot.

00:13:31.000 But they had the same experience and didn't bring it up.

00:13:33.000 And I'm like, guys, like, we can't release this shit.

00:13:36.000 And it was just like way too intense.

00:13:38.000 What did it do to you?

00:13:38.000 It just like makes you extremely nauseous.

00:13:41.000 You feel like you have to keel over on a couch and just lie there until you feel like you can actually regain composure and start moving around again.

00:13:49.000 Yeah.

00:13:49.000 Really?

00:13:50.000 Dopamine, a lot of people think more is better.

00:13:53.000 You're going to have more motivation, more drive, more, you know, it's the more the better is what a lot of people think.

00:13:58.000 But similar to probably even worse than stimulants, because at least stimulants, you have kind of like a direct biofeedback through your heart rates going through the roof and you're getting the anxiety with dopamine.

00:14:08.000 If you overdo it with something that you can't like rate limit either, you just like get sick and you just end up having to lie down for hours.

00:14:17.000 Interesting.

00:14:18.000 One thing I like about a drink versus a pill form is that you can just take a little.

00:14:23.000 Yeah, you can meter your dose.

00:14:25.000 Yeah, because you take a pill, you're taking a pill.

00:14:27.000 You can't like, unless you want to cut pills in half or pour some of the capsule out.

00:14:27.000 That's it.

00:14:31.000 No one's doing that.

00:14:31.000 Yeah.

00:14:32.000 But this is nice because you could just kind of sip a little bit of it.

00:14:35.000 How many of these can you drink in a day?

00:14:38.000 I could drink a lot personally.

00:14:40.000 Like, you don't even want to know, dude.

00:14:42.000 How many do you drink a day?

00:14:44.000 On a typical day, probably two to three, but I couldn't.

00:14:47.000 What's recommended?

00:14:48.000 Oh, check the warning label, bro.

00:14:51.000 What does the warning label say, bro?

00:14:53.000 It must say no more than two a day, but I would say on a podcast, not more than one is what I would recommend.

00:15:00.000 Yeah.

00:15:01.000 Well, especially with all that caffeine as well.

00:15:03.000 Yeah, you never know.

00:15:05.000 In general, 400 milligrams is even like the FDA stated, you know, everyone's going to be okay probably dose.

00:15:12.000 But in reality, it's kind of crazy.

00:15:14.000 A lot of people don't realize the studies done for caffeine-induced performance enhancement are all looking at like three to six milligrams a kilogram, which is like, unless you're a tiny woman, 400, 500, 600 milligrams are the doses that actually really move the needle when it comes to acute performance enhancement.

00:15:34.000 Chaos Sunnin used to take it in pill form.

00:15:36.000 Yeah.

00:15:37.000 Because he was saying that there's a level where they'll test you where you'll pop, where they'll say, okay, you're in a stimulant level.

00:15:46.000 Like you took a stimulant before you fought.

00:15:48.000 Yeah, they have a they had threshold concentrations that they would deem inappropriately high, perhaps for safety, perhaps because they thought it was an unfair advantage.

00:15:58.000 It's kind of I think that's what they were looking at it.

00:16:00.000 It kind of depends, though, because I think it was removed, and I don't think that threshold exists anymore except in the NCAA.

00:16:06.000 I'd have to revisit it, but I'm pretty sure caffeine is like essentially you could go full bore at this point.

00:16:12.000 So 500, 600 milligrams was what the efficacious dose was.

00:16:12.000 Interesting.

00:16:18.000 So you can get performance enhancement as low as, I think some people was like a milligram per kilogram.

00:16:25.000 It depends on the person and tolerance, of course.

00:16:27.000 But in general, the most tried and true studies when it comes to repeatable, high impact with a proportional relative lack of side effect, but not none, was like three to six milligrams a kilogram.

00:16:40.000 And some of the studies go even higher than that.

00:16:42.000 Interesting.

00:16:43.000 And what are the benefits?

00:16:44.000 Like what did they get?

00:16:45.000 Like acute strength enhancement, offsetting like any sleep-induced deprivation and performance outcomes mentally.

00:16:55.000 You can pretty much offset like a shitty night of sleep and all the kind of detriments to your performance via a pretty solid dose of caffeine.

00:17:04.000 Yeah, most of the stuff is kind of energy, acutely offsetting performance decrement related, but also in a context of strength, high intensity activity, you can absolutely get a benefit from it.

00:17:17.000 And there's a reason why, you know, sprinters will take, you know, modafinil or high-dose caffeine or powerlifters will take, you know, massive doses of, you know, pre-workup before a lift or whatnot.

00:17:29.000 Like it's all impactful for your psychological state to get really like locked in in a hyper-vigilant state to really max out on what you're trying to do, whatever it may be.

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00:18:49.000 I had a podcast the other day with Chris Master, John.

00:18:52.000 Do you know who he is?

00:18:53.000 Yeah, he's great.

00:18:53.000 Great.

00:18:54.000 And we were talking about the impact of creatine.

00:18:57.000 And, you know, and they're trying to figure out what is the correct dose.

00:19:01.000 And a lot of people are going 20, 30.

00:19:04.000 They're getting pretty high, you know, because the recommended was like five milligrams, I think.

00:19:09.000 And now everyone's saying, actually, the real benefits are at 20 and at least 10.

00:19:15.000 But you're getting a lot of what happens when people have sleep deprivation.

00:19:22.000 And I'll butcher the science, so I won't try to repeat it.

00:19:25.000 And I recommend anybody listen to the episode.

00:19:28.000 But what he was essentially saying was it bypasses all the problems that occur and you could at least have a bridge to your performance would not be impeded by a lack of sleep, at least for a temporary day or whatever.

00:19:44.000 Yeah, definitely want to touch on that.

00:19:46.000 But one thing to mention on the caffeine, too, is I think a lot of people, when they hear the stuff like, you know, I heard you can go up to 20 grams of creatine or, you know, the highest impact dose in caffeine literature is, you know, three to six milligrams a kilogram.

00:20:00.000 It's not like I or I imagine Chris is like blindly recommending anybody start there.

00:20:04.000 Exactly.

00:20:05.000 And it could easily get misconstrued that way in like a clippable format if people just like hear the headline and then run with it.

00:20:12.000 Like in, you should start as low as you can with caffeine and you could get a ergogenic effect as low as, I think the lowest dose was like 50 to 100 milligrams probably if you equated to body weight, but it's all like tolerance dependent.

00:20:25.000 It's just when you look at the studies, like these are the repeatable high impact outcomes are typically in, and especially in like trained athletes where you're trying to see how hard you can push them.

00:20:36.000 It's kind of like, you know, for max stress resilience, max, you know, acute force production, these are the kind of dosages that are just used in the studies.

00:20:42.000 So anyway, with that caveat, and same with the creatine, you know, you might shit yourself if you go to 20 right away.

00:20:48.000 Like you don't, you don't want to start that.

00:20:49.000 A lot of people do, apparently.

00:20:50.000 Yeah.

00:20:50.000 And I mean, like, like Rhonda Patrick, amazing content.

00:20:55.000 And she tolerates 20 grams well, which is kind of like surprising because I know a lot of women who don't. 0.98

00:21:01.000 I think she does a probably micro doses it throughout the day and is really regimented about making sure she's diligently spreading it out.

00:21:09.000 But some people who they bomb 20 at a time, even guys who think they have iron stomachs.

00:21:13.000 Just shit all over.

00:21:14.000 Yeah, so much powder, too.

00:21:17.000 Yeah.

00:21:17.000 Just the fact that you're consuming all this powder.

00:21:21.000 Oh, yeah.

00:21:21.000 Yeah.

00:21:22.000 Speaking of which, are you still doing the like million gummies a day?

00:21:25.000 Of what?

00:21:26.000 Of creatine.

00:21:27.000 No.

00:21:28.000 You said you were going to crank that shit up to get to 20 grams.

00:21:31.000 I stopped with the gummies and I went to powdered form.

00:21:34.000 Oh, okay.

00:21:35.000 Because I felt like I'm tired of eating these fucking things.

00:21:37.000 You got up to like, what, like 10 plus a day?

00:21:40.000 Or more.

00:21:40.000 I was eating like 15 a day, 15 gummies a day.

00:21:44.000 But the issue is like, what else is in the gummies?

00:21:47.000 You know, what are the other things?

00:21:48.000 Yeah, they're not gelatin and calories either.

00:21:51.000 It's kind of just like, if I'm going to eat candy, you know, kind of want it to be like good candy.

00:21:55.000 Yeah, I don't even know what it's sweetened with.

00:21:57.000 They taste good.

00:21:58.000 But the point was, is like, I didn't like eating them.

00:22:01.000 I was eating too, I'm like forcing myself to chew these things down.

00:22:04.000 I can just mix creatine in a glass of water, stir it up real quick, and just chug it in five seconds and we're done.

00:22:04.000 I'm like, what am I doing?

00:22:10.000 I don't have to chew and swallow all these stupid fucking gummies. 1.00

00:22:13.000 I know.

00:22:14.000 But I do keep them.

00:22:15.000 I keep them around because I think it's a great thing.

00:22:17.000 Like if I hadn't had enough lately, I'll just pop a few.

00:22:21.000 It's like the best gateway drug, if you can even call it, it's not like a drug, but to get people who otherwise would never try it to actually see the benefits of it.

00:22:29.000 Right.

00:22:29.000 So like, I know so many women who literally refuse to take the powder because it's like, even though it's kind of tasteless, it's still a nuisance.

00:22:38.000 Can be a little bit messy depending on the scooper shape of it and everything and how you're going to try to convince a chick, like, trust me, it's really good for your health if you like, you know, fucking swig this thing dry and then chase it with water every day. 1.00

00:22:51.000 It's not the easiest sell every time.

00:22:54.000 They're like, fuck you.

00:22:54.000 I don't care.

00:22:55.000 So the gummies are good for that, in my opinion.

00:22:59.000 And yeah, I mean, going back to the 20 grams and the offsetting of, you know, performance deteriorations, I do think it's basically offsetting kind of the deficiencies in like ATP production, especially locally in the brain.

00:23:14.000 And also kind of offsetting the pulling of resources away from like methylation support and whatnot in order to produce the endogenous creatine as well.

00:23:24.000 These things can all be impactful to kind of like get you back to almost baseline.

00:23:29.000 So if you're in a deteriorated state, being able to offset the performance decrements from an otherwise, you know, sleep deprived state or, you know, you're traveling or what have you, like it can absolutely be super impactful.

00:23:39.000 And the literature has shown that time and time again.

00:23:41.000 What's interesting is that creatine in the 1990s was thought of like steroids.

00:23:45.000 Yeah.

00:23:46.000 I mean, it was really like frowned upon.

00:23:48.000 Like, oh my God, someone's taking creatine.

00:23:50.000 They're cheating.

00:23:51.000 It was really, that's like how it was first introduced to the market.

00:23:53.000 You'd have to hide it from your parents when you're a teenager.

00:23:56.000 Really?

00:23:57.000 Well, at least when I was a teenager, it was kind of like it had a taboo still.

00:23:57.000 Yeah.

00:24:02.000 It was like, you know, kind of like steroids light version.

00:24:05.000 Well, it's because it works.

00:24:06.000 Yeah.

00:24:07.000 And parents, but they hear the stigma and the taboo associated.

00:24:10.000 Like I heard creatine, they're selling it at the GNCs.

00:24:13.000 Yeah.

00:24:13.000 You know, better watch out for that one.

00:24:15.000 Meanwhile, they had real steroids at GNC.

00:24:17.000 Oh, yeah, the irony too.

00:24:19.000 I mean, that's like fucking M1Ts over the counter from, you know, like some 19-year-old kid who's just like manning the counter and doesn't care and will like fuck your endocrine system up to sell it to you.

00:24:19.000 Yeah.

00:24:29.000 100%.

00:24:30.000 I took some stuff called Mag10.

00:24:31.000 Do you remember that?

00:24:33.000 If I saw the ingredient deck, I'm sure it's just like some fucking run-in-the-mill M1T product or something.

00:24:39.000 Gained like 10 solid pounds of muscle in a month.

00:24:42.000 And I bet your liver markers, not that you did blood work back, destroyed.

00:24:45.000 Yeah, like worse than if you took like injectable trend even.

00:24:48.000 Yeah, it's crazy.

00:24:48.000 Right, right.

00:24:49.000 Yeah, well, 100% of it killed my dick afterwards, too.

00:24:52.000 When I got off of it, I was like, what's going on?

00:24:54.000 And I was like, oh, this is a real steroid.

00:24:56.000 And that's like, you're not giving the PCT from the guy at the counter.

00:24:56.000 Yeah.

00:25:00.000 I felt like a fucking gorilla when I was taking it.

00:25:03.000 I felt so strong when I was taking it.

00:25:05.000 I literally gained, I think it was like I was on it for five or six weeks and I gained 10 solid pounds of muscle.

00:25:11.000 The amount of people that have inadvertently gotten gynecomastia from those days when they were sold some irresponsible pro hormone over the counter without like any knowledge of what they were taking and then had to just recover naturally with no support, it's a shame.

00:25:28.000 Yeah, well, there was so much of that stuff, like werewolf blast.

00:25:31.000 There was dragon's dick.

00:25:34.000 You'd buy them and they were just pills.

00:25:36.000 They were just regular pills.

00:25:37.000 The stimulants were crazy too.

00:25:39.000 Like Ephedrin was over the counter.

00:25:41.000 Yeah.

00:25:42.000 And like so weird.

00:25:44.000 But in Canada, for relatively recently, even it was still available over the counter, even though Canada is like super tight on regulation when it comes to the most weird stuff.

00:25:55.000 Like when it comes to caffeine, you can't even have a can with 200 milligrams.

00:25:59.000 It has to be like 180 or lower.

00:26:01.000 Why exactly?

00:26:02.000 I don't know.

00:26:03.000 But that is a thing, as well as limitations on basic amino acids.

00:26:06.000 It's like tyrosine if it's more than like 10 milligrams or something.

00:26:10.000 Amino acids.

00:26:11.000 Yeah.

00:26:11.000 That's hilarious.

00:26:12.000 Yeah, it's crazy.

00:26:13.000 Like based on what?

00:26:14.000 Nonsense.

00:26:16.000 Oh, God.

00:26:17.000 It's a fucking nanny steak.

00:26:18.000 But anyway, so ephedrin, for whatever reason, was still over-the-counter available in GNCs up until like a handful of years ago.

00:26:27.000 And it was, you know, the bestseller in GNCs in a lot of supplement stores, not just because it worked as a bronchodilator, but also because people were buying it in bulk to make meth.

00:26:39.000 I believe it.

00:26:40.000 I took rip fuel once for jiu-jitsu, right before jiu-jitsu, and I had to stop in the middle of the class.

00:26:45.000 I was like, I got to sit down.

00:26:47.000 I pulled over to the side.

00:26:48.000 I'm like, guys, my fucking heart is beating over my chest.

00:26:50.000 And I was explaining, I don't remember how many I took, but I took some rip fuel.

00:26:54.000 I was like, well, it's good to lift with.

00:26:56.000 I'll try it for jiu-jitsu.

00:26:57.000 It's fucking for something that like really taxes your cardiovascular system.

00:27:01.000 It was horrendous.

00:27:02.000 Resting horror to like 120.

00:27:04.000 Right away, I was tired.

00:27:05.000 Like right away.

00:27:07.000 Like we start rolling.

00:27:07.000 Like right away.

00:27:08.000 I was like, God, I'm fucking exhausted.

00:27:10.000 My heart's beating out of my chest.

00:27:12.000 But in your brain, you're like, this feels good.

00:27:15.000 I knew I fucked up.

00:27:16.000 I knew I did it once and I never did it again.

00:27:18.000 If you're doing that sport, but for a guy who's going to the gym and is told, like, this is the shit, bro.

00:27:25.000 If you're just lifting.

00:27:26.000 If you're just going for like max bench, that kind of shit.

00:27:26.000 Yeah.

00:27:29.000 Anybody watching will know, you know, the original.

00:27:31.000 Have you ever heard of Jack 3D?

00:27:32.000 Yeah, I took that too.

00:27:34.000 Yeah, shit was nuts.

00:27:35.000 And what's crazy too is back then it was proprietary blends on a lot of the products and it was still the norm with no education available, no YouTube to really tell you what to look for.

00:27:46.000 Also, no oversight.

00:27:47.000 Yeah, so these companies would basically sell you for 50 bucks a tub of like a powder flavored tub of just like the stimulant.

00:27:56.000 And then it was like all the other ingredients for vasodilation.

00:27:59.000 They're like, fuck you.

00:28:00.000 You're just getting DMA, bro.

00:28:02.000 Yeah, you were just getting like straight meth.

00:28:04.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:28:05.000 There was so much.

00:28:05.000 It was crazy.

00:28:07.000 Those were the Wild West days of like GNCs and like local vitamin shops.

00:28:12.000 Yeah.

00:28:12.000 Because you could get stuff that really worked, like worked like something that's highly illegal.

00:28:18.000 And you could buy it with a credit card.

00:28:20.000 And the sales tactics were just like so ruthless, but you couldn't really prove them otherwise.

00:28:24.000 It was always like a pit bull with like giant muscles on the cover of it with like lightning bolts.

00:28:30.000 It's funny, too, because some of these companies, it's like now we're in the mix competing with them on shelves or whatever.

00:28:36.000 But I remember being like convinced back when I was a teenager by them, oh, you need, you know, Gakik, Lukik, and Creek Kick in this combo that costs 250 bucks.

00:28:47.000 Yeah.

00:28:47.000 And it's like, you know, literally pressed tablets of like glutamine or something at a dose that doesn't even help.

00:28:53.000 And they're telling me like, this is what Jay Culler used to fucking prep for the Olympia.

00:28:57.000 Sure.

00:28:59.000 He's like, look at the before and after of Lee Priest.

00:29:01.000 He lost like 50 pounds of pure fat and kept all his muscle from Celltech.

00:29:06.000 Oh, that's the dirty thing about those bodybuilders back in the day is they couldn't admit that they were on gear.

00:29:11.000 So they were all just telling you they were taking this stuff and then they would be spokespeople for it.

00:29:15.000 And it's like, God, it was so deceptive.

00:29:18.000 It was so creepy.

00:29:19.000 And you would have to know someone at the gym who would, you know, go, oh, I was born to be like Lee Haney.

00:29:25.000 Like, no, that's not how he got that way.

00:29:27.000 Like, you got to take the real stuff.

00:29:29.000 He's, this is what he's actually taking.

00:29:31.000 And so many people didn't think that those bodybuilders were on like hardcore steroids.

00:29:36.000 Yeah, a lot of, yeah, it's a deception at a mass scale for sure.

00:29:40.000 I don't know.

00:29:40.000 The whole sport.

00:29:41.000 Yeah.

00:29:41.000 The whole sport was just a complete like three-card money game.

00:29:47.000 Yeah.

00:29:47.000 It's crazy because now it's almost full circle because, you know, I was back then, you know, at least at the time when I didn't know any better.

00:29:56.000 Oh, you know, I guess this guy must be natural because he told me so or whatever.

00:30:00.000 And it's like, I'm skeptical, but like, and, you know, in hindsight, it's absolutely ridiculous.

00:30:05.000 But now a lot of bodybuilders are pretty forthcoming because it's more normal to be transparent and also not mislead people and you know, unethically sell things and just reality check people on the what it's going to take to be at that level.

00:30:20.000 And is it the risk you want to, you know, subject yourself to?

00:30:23.000 Because back in the day, too, it was like you didn't know if you had good genetics or not when it came to certain dosage responses.

00:30:29.000 So you would like always think the next guy's just taking more than you.

00:30:33.000 And it would result in guys unspokenly thinking this guy must just be taking 5x the amount of shit I'm on.

00:30:40.000 So I need to go to like five to 10 grams of total gear per week now.

00:30:45.000 And you would just like, that's what led to so many early deaths in bodybuilding too.

00:30:50.000 So I think there's another thing, another factor is that the consequences of lying and getting caught now are huge.

00:30:57.000 Because if you lose all credibility and people know that you're just a bullshit artist, and then they'll never trust you again.

00:31:04.000 Like you have one chance to tell the truth forever.

00:31:09.000 And the moment you violate that, you're always a liar.

00:31:13.000 And that's a giant fucking issue with whether it's actors or anybody.

00:31:19.000 You know, like all these guys who prep for roles and they're talking about it now.

00:31:23.000 Like, oh, I took Anivar, I took this, like Mickey Rourke did when he was talking about that movie, The Wrestler.

00:31:28.000 You know, I remember they were asking him on whatever talk show he was on.

00:31:32.000 He's like, oh, I fucking took everything.

00:31:33.000 What are you talking about?

00:31:34.000 I took that guy was a pioneer of interviews for that kind of stuff.

00:31:37.000 Well, he's a wild dude, he'll tell the truth.

00:31:40.000 Yeah, but you have one chance to tell the truth forever.

00:31:42.000 Yeah, you violate that, and you're always going to be a bullshit artist.

00:31:46.000 Yeah, a guy who's pretty good about that now is a Frank Gorillo.

00:31:49.000 Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:31:50.000 He was doing some like men's health thing, and I have never seen men's health talk about steroids forthcomingly.

00:31:57.000 Interesting, yeah.

00:31:58.000 So, they had him on in a sit-down interview, and they were like, So, you know, what's it take to be actually recent?

00:32:03.000 Yeah, it's like last year, within the last year, right?

00:32:06.000 If not months ago, is this when he was talking about Anivar?

00:32:08.000 Yeah, and he talked about his TRT protocol and kind of like the realities of how impactful it actually is and improving his performance and how it makes him feel.

00:32:16.000 And he was just like pretty non-sugar-coated about it.

00:32:19.000 Well, he's a good example because he was clean for a long time.

00:32:24.000 Yeah, like he had like very low testosterone because he was just going on willpower.

00:32:28.000 He was really just working out on willpower.

00:32:32.000 Actress Star lifts the lid on fitness, recovery, and the reality behind the scenes physiques. 1.00

00:32:36.000 Frank Illo 60 gets real about Hollywood steroid use.

00:32:40.000 They all do it.

00:32:40.000 Well, that is a fact.

00:32:41.000 But he was not on anything for a long time, like deep into his 50s.

00:32:46.000 And he got his testosterone taken.

00:32:48.000 He's good friends with Brian Callan.

00:32:50.000 And, you know, he got his testosterone taken.

00:32:52.000 It was fucking nothing.

00:32:54.000 He had like zero, but he was just very disciplined and working out hard.

00:32:58.000 But he didn't look like he was on gear.

00:32:59.000 He just looked like he was ripped.

00:33:01.000 He was like shredded.

00:33:02.000 He was like in really good shape because he trained every fucking day and he was doing a lot of boxing.

00:33:06.000 So a lot of like heavy caloric expenditure, a lot of like long rounds, hitting the back, hitting mitts, doing sparring.

00:33:14.000 You know, you're going to burn off so much calories.

00:33:16.000 And also you're going to like your butt, your metabolism is going to be like completely jacked.

00:33:20.000 Yeah.

00:33:21.000 So then for him to talk about, okay, now I got on this and then I got on that.

00:33:26.000 And this is the improvements in my sleep, my mood, everything got better.

00:33:30.000 Because, you know, he's talked about his like his testosterone when he got it tested was super low.

00:33:34.000 Yeah.

00:33:35.000 It's probably one of the few examples actually still to this day, though, of somebody being like really transparent.

00:33:43.000 I actually saw The Rock talking about peptide use recently, which is kind of like a interesting.

00:33:47.000 Yeah.

00:33:48.000 Dipping his toes in the water.

00:33:50.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:33:52.000 He's lost a ton of weight, man.

00:33:53.000 Oh, dude.

00:33:53.000 Yeah.

00:33:54.000 He's kind of crazy.

00:33:55.000 Yeah.

00:33:56.000 And there's a lot of speculation about if it's like a health thing or what, but that's tough to know because he just had the role where he gained the most size he ever has, too.

00:34:06.000 Right, right.

00:34:07.000 But that, I think, God, that had to be terrible for him.

00:34:09.000 Oh, for sure.

00:34:10.000 But it's like, would you have subjected yourself to that if you knew?

00:34:14.000 I don't know if he would have known, but you would have think proactively he would know how close he is to kind of like an issue.

00:34:20.000 Um, being probably pretty close, 50 years old and getting up to 300 pounds.

00:34:24.000 Yeah, I just mean, I think he probably had more preventative screening before that role to know he could even subject himself to it without dying because it's like a pretty risky endeavor to go become the biggest you've ever been at that age.

00:34:39.000 So to then downsize after the theory is that he was literally about to die essentially.

00:34:44.000 So that's why he lost so much weight now.

00:34:47.000 And I'm thinking, I think maybe he's just like trying to take like a health phase and kind of like come down and wait for a bit and he'll probably like crank it back up.

00:34:57.000 Honestly, I think just this is pure speculation.

00:35:01.000 I haven't talked to him about this.

00:35:03.000 I think based on what he tried to do with the smashing machine, I think he's trying to win an Oscar and trying to be a real actor because he was really good in that movie.

00:35:12.000 Did you see it?

00:35:13.000 Not yet.

00:35:14.000 Planning on it, though.

00:35:15.000 It's the best mixed martial arts movie ever.

00:35:18.000 That's not saying a lot because they all suck.

00:35:20.000 But it's the most accurate in terms of historical matches.

00:35:25.000 Like they had all the matches with the Eagle of Tension, all these different people that he fought that Mark Kerr actually fought.

00:35:32.000 And it's just a good movie.

00:35:34.000 It's a really good movie.

00:35:36.000 Like, Emily Blunt plays his crazy girlfriend, and she's out of her fucking mind. 1.00

00:35:42.000 And to the point where, like, they're arguing right before he fights, and you're getting anxiety watching, like, oh, Jesus fucking Christ.

00:35:49.000 It's just such a crazy, toxic relationship.

00:35:51.000 It is Emily Blunt, right?

00:35:52.000 I didn't fuck that up, did I?

00:35:54.000 Yeah.

00:35:54.000 There it is.

00:35:55.000 She's fucking great in it, too.

00:35:57.000 It's just a really good movie that I think would have gotten a lot more credit if it wasn't a mixed martial arts movie.

00:36:04.000 Because I think, you know, mixed martial arts movies, like, oh, it's some fucking meathead, like, rah-rah-rah, you know, bullshit movie.

00:36:11.000 But it's, it's a very good movie.

00:36:13.000 And he is Mark Kerr.

00:36:16.000 Oh, he was so accurate.

00:36:18.000 So good.

00:36:18.000 Yeah.

00:36:19.000 He just, and not just the fighting stuff, man.

00:36:22.000 The fighting stuff was great, but the acting stuff.

00:36:25.000 Like, he played that guy.

00:36:26.000 And I know Mark.

00:36:27.000 I was like, fuck, that's Mark.

00:36:29.000 That's nuts.

00:36:30.000 It was so good.

00:36:31.000 It was a really good movie.

00:36:32.000 So what I think he's doing is the same thing Bautista's doing.

00:36:36.000 Dave Batista.

00:36:37.000 Or inversed.

00:36:38.000 Well, Dave Batita lost a lot of weight, too.

00:36:40.000 Yeah, but I guess I mean like typically when actors are trying to get taken more seriously for more impactful like artistic creative roles, it's almost like the jack meathead guy downsizes to do something more, you know, like, I don't know, artsy. 0.86

00:36:55.000 Yeah.

00:36:56.000 But like, this is getting as yoked as possible in order to be the artist.

00:37:00.000 Right, right, right.

00:37:00.000 Whereas Batista is like fully downsized, I think, now.

00:37:03.000 Yeah, but what I'm saying is now, what he's doing now, I think he's probably trying to get different kinds of roles.

00:37:10.000 Roles where like, I mean, if you've ever met him, no.

00:37:13.000 He's like a superhero.

00:37:14.000 He looks like a superhero.

00:37:16.000 Like, we worked out together.

00:37:17.000 He came to the gym and I brought a bunch of comedians.

00:37:19.000 We worked out and hung out.

00:37:20.000 Like, Tony Clinchcliffe was in his glory because, you know, he loves pro wrestling.

00:37:23.000 We're all in the sauna together hanging out with the woman.

00:37:25.000 It was the first time he, he probably still doesn't know that he uses gear.

00:37:28.000 He probably still doesn't know that he uses gear.

00:37:28.000 What's that?

00:37:30.000 What do you mean?

00:37:31.000 Hinchcliffe is just like.

00:37:32.000 Oh, Stinchcliffe doesn't know that he.

00:37:34.000 Oh, he knows he uses gear.

00:37:35.000 I still remember the episode where he was dumbfounded that you and Shob thought that he was doing anything.

00:37:42.000 Tell it though.

00:37:44.000 He is locked into being a 12-year-old pro wrestling fan for the rest of his life.

00:37:51.000 It's like a religious thing for him.

00:37:53.000 It's like, you know, Mary was a virgin. 0.65

00:37:56.000 She gave birth to Jesus.

00:37:58.000 Like, I'm not kidding.

00:37:59.000 Like, he fucking loves pro wrestling so much that he's completely locked in.

00:38:04.000 He's a good example, though, of like a reasonably in the know guy who has friends in the space too.

00:38:11.000 Like you and Shaab know about this stuff.

00:38:14.000 And even he was like surprised that you guys thought that at the time.

00:38:17.000 It is funny.

00:38:18.000 It is funny when you think about it.

00:38:19.000 So imagine just the average person.

00:38:21.000 They probably, you know.

00:38:22.000 Right.

00:38:22.000 And also he's, you know, been very coy about it and saying, actually, not really coy, probably deceptive.

00:38:28.000 Right.

00:38:29.000 Just like strategically perfect in his tact when it comes to avoiding it.

00:38:34.000 Yes.

00:38:35.000 That's the best way to describe it.

00:38:37.000 Instead of saying, I've never taken in our steroids, he's kind of like, look over there.

00:38:42.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:38:43.000 But everybody who knows knows.

00:38:45.000 You know, it's one of those things.

00:38:46.000 It's like you look at him and you're like, there's no way.

00:38:49.000 There's just no way.

00:38:49.000 There's no way.

00:38:50.000 I think I can't imagine talking about peptides and putting the feelers out there would not eventually transition to like, you know, it was recommended to me by my doctor to be on, you know, hormone support or whatever.

00:39:02.000 100%.

00:39:03.000 Like, I mean, you're kind of in that realm talking about it at this point.

00:39:03.000 Yeah.

00:39:06.000 You know.

00:39:07.000 Just come out and say it.

00:39:08.000 I've always just come out and said it.

00:39:10.000 I don't see any problem with it.

00:39:12.000 But I don't have that kind of a reputation.

00:39:14.000 Like the problem of like being the pro wrestling thing is like you're a role model for the youth.

00:39:21.000 And, you know, you have to, especially a guy like that.

00:39:24.000 He's a giant movie star.

00:39:25.000 You don't want to be telling everybody you're on gear.

00:39:28.000 He probably wasn't for like a big chunk of his early career.

00:39:31.000 In his early career.

00:39:32.000 His early career, I don't think he was.

00:39:32.000 Right.

00:39:32.000 Yeah.

00:39:34.000 I guess the problem is when you're like, when I really became successful, is when I just sauced my face off.

00:39:38.000 Yeah, that's the thing.

00:39:39.000 When he became a superhero.

00:39:41.000 I mean, the first time I met him, he had cowboy boots on, so he's even taller.

00:39:44.000 And he just looked like a fucking brick shithouse.

00:39:47.000 I'm like, you're not even a real person.

00:39:48.000 This isn't a real person.

00:39:49.000 This is a superhero.

00:39:50.000 Yeah.

00:39:51.000 Yeah.

00:39:51.000 I, uh, yeah, it's crazy, dude.

00:39:54.000 But I think he's still jacked.

00:39:56.000 It's just proportionally to relative to what he was.

00:40:00.000 You know, it's kind of like anybody who used to be a bodybuilder or had significant amounts of size, even me, like people in my videos are like, where you're, you know, you've lost everything.

00:40:09.000 And it's like, okay, I'm not like non-existent anymore.

00:40:12.000 I'm just like not a bodybuilder anymore.

00:40:14.000 Yeah.

00:40:14.000 You know what I mean?

00:40:15.000 So with him, it's like, he's still yoked.

00:40:17.000 He's like 230, 240 or whatever.

00:40:19.000 Yeah.

00:40:19.000 The thing is, like, super gearheads will always criticize.

00:40:23.000 Oh, you look fucking chick now.

00:40:25.000 They get crazy.

00:40:26.000 They said that about Batista, too.

00:40:28.000 But he's like 240.

00:40:29.000 I think he's just going to stop wearing like the weird tapered Gucci suits.

00:40:33.000 It just makes him look a little bit more slender than it's not complimentary to his physique.

00:40:38.000 He's still jacked too.

00:40:39.000 Yeah, but it does, it is complimentary if you didn't know what he used to look like.

00:40:44.000 That's what's crazy.

00:40:44.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:40:46.000 Like you look at him, the guy looks fucking great.

00:40:48.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:49.000 Yeah, objectively, if you just look at it with no baseline.

00:40:51.000 Like pull up a photo of Dave Bautista now.

00:40:54.000 And he's also just getting older.

00:40:56.000 Like there's got to be some level where you get acceptance of like, okay, you're allowed to downsize so you don't die.

00:41:01.000 Yeah, you could die.

00:41:02.000 That's the thing.

00:41:03.000 Like you're, if you're pushing gear at that age, so there's, yeah, like, look at Batista on the right.

00:41:08.000 You wouldn't say that's a small guy.

00:41:11.000 You know, that's not a small guy.

00:41:13.000 He's a big fucking dude, but he's just slimmer now.

00:41:16.000 He looks like, like, if you saw an MMA, like Alex Pereira, you don't think Alex Pereira is small.

00:41:22.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:41:22.000 But, you know, he's 240 pounds.

00:41:26.000 Yeah, if he was bodybuilding for a while and then decided to convert to, you know, MMA.

00:41:30.000 That's the thing.

00:41:31.000 But he also got, like, that's what he looks like now.

00:41:33.000 Like, that's not a small guy.

00:41:35.000 Yeah, and he's like, I don't know how old, but I mean.

00:41:37.000 That's 2025.

00:41:38.000 He's got to be 50, 56, 56.

00:41:40.000 So that's, he's fucking shredded.

00:41:42.000 He looks fucking gigantic.

00:41:44.000 Yeah.

00:41:45.000 Yeah, I think he actually did a role recently where he bulked up.

00:41:48.000 Now that I think about it, he went to like, it was like fat weight, too, which is crazy.

00:41:52.000 Yeah, that was that Glass Onion.

00:41:57.000 Was that what it was called?

00:41:59.000 There was some movie that he did.

00:42:02.000 It was a really good movie.

00:42:03.000 It was a movie where some billionaire had everybody come to his island for some crazy party and there was a murder.

00:42:09.000 What was that called?

00:42:11.000 That, I think, is Glass Onion.

00:42:13.000 I don't know if that was Glass Onion.

00:42:15.000 He was huge for Glass Onion.

00:42:17.000 He got gigantic.

00:42:18.000 He got big for something else, too.

00:42:20.000 But I think he was like playing, I don't remember what his role was, but playing some former athlete or something along those lines.

00:42:27.000 Yeah, he was hosty, dude.

00:42:29.000 It's weird when you get really big for a movie that sucks.

00:42:32.000 You know what I mean?

00:42:33.000 Or kill yourself for a movie that sucks.

00:42:35.000 Yeah, I hope it did well.

00:42:37.000 Jesus.

00:42:38.000 Christian Bale did that for The Machinist.

00:42:40.000 He almost died.

00:42:41.000 75 pounds he gained for Knock at the Cabin.

00:42:44.000 Oh, that's what it is.

00:42:46.000 What was that movie?

00:42:47.000 Show me what that looked like.

00:42:48.000 Oh, yeah.

00:42:49.000 Knock at the Cabin.

00:42:51.000 What was that movie?

00:42:52.000 A horror movie on.

00:42:54.000 I did not watch it.

00:42:56.000 Wow.

00:42:58.000 A horror movie.

00:43:00.000 Huh.

00:43:01.000 Do you watch horror movies every day?

00:43:03.000 I love a good horror movie.

00:43:03.000 Oh, yeah.

00:43:05.000 He was 315?

00:43:06.000 Jesus.

00:43:06.000 Yeah.

00:43:07.000 So now he's 240.

00:43:08.000 Yeah, it's much, much more sustainable.

00:43:09.000 Yeah, but that's like a weird weight.

00:43:11.000 That's like, what the fuck did he eat to get that big?

00:43:13.000 And again, he probably did that at like 52, which is fucking dangerous.

00:43:17.000 Yeah.

00:43:18.000 You probably got sleep apnea.

00:43:20.000 Yeah.

00:43:20.000 You're all fucked up.

00:43:21.000 Charlize Thurum did that too recently. 0.96

00:43:21.000 Yeah. 0.96

00:43:23.000 She did it for Monster. 0.96

00:43:24.000 No, again.

00:43:24.000 I know.

00:43:25.000 She did it again? 1.00

00:43:26.000 Don't do that.

00:43:27.000 Charlize.

00:43:29.000 Oh, God.

00:43:30.000 Yeah.

00:43:30.000 That's real?

00:43:31.000 What is it for?

00:43:32.000 I forget the movie.

00:43:33.000 I just saw this photo the other day.

00:43:35.000 I think some women, they're probably like a lady like her. 1.00

00:43:38.000 They're probably like Tully.

00:43:40.000 I don't know what that is.

00:43:41.000 Might not even be new.

00:43:42.000 I just saw that.

00:43:43.000 It's such a flex.

00:43:44.000 When you're a hot lady, you get fat and gross. 1.00

00:43:46.000 And like when she did Monster, she shaved her eyebrows off. 0.97

00:43:49.000 Did you see the Sidney Sweeney like boxing?

00:43:53.000 I didn't see that.

00:43:54.000 Not that she got fat and gross, but she gained some weight. 0.82

00:43:57.000 Did she?

00:43:57.000 Yeah.

00:43:58.000 That movie got zero attention.

00:44:00.000 The Christy Martin movie?

00:44:02.000 Because it was like three decades past when anybody gave a shit.

00:44:02.000 Oh, yeah.

00:44:06.000 You know what I mean?

00:44:08.000 I at least got the impression.

00:44:09.000 I haven't watched it, so I could be way off base that it was kind of like one of those artistic kind of like versatility in roles kind of thing.

00:44:17.000 What is Sidney Sweeney look like in that movie?

00:44:20.000 Did she gain weight? 0.97

00:44:22.000 They might have put her in a flexible movie. 1.00

00:44:23.000 Well, they said she gained like 30 pounds of muscle or something, which is like the typical headline nonsense.

00:44:28.000 Horseshit.

00:44:28.000 Yeah.

00:44:29.000 Yeah.

00:44:30.000 But she definitely like, you know, took it seriously and gained the weight that she needed to to look whatever the role was for sure. 0.63

00:44:36.000 That's such a weird thing.

00:44:38.000 The acting world.

00:44:39.000 You have to change your, like, Robert De Niro was the first guy to do it for Raging Bull.

00:44:44.000 You remember Tom Cruise in Tropic Thunder?

00:44:48.000 Yeah, but that was a fat suit.

00:44:48.000 Yeah.

00:44:50.000 Yeah.

00:44:50.000 Oh, yeah.

00:44:51.000 I mean, because they made his forearms fat.

00:44:53.000 He shaved his head.

00:44:54.000 He was fucking great in that movie.

00:44:56.000 Oh, fuck.

00:44:57.000 What a movie.

00:44:58.000 That was the last bang before Woke.

00:45:01.000 That was the last movie that you could ever do like that before Woke kicked in and essentially ruined great comedies because you couldn't go too far.

00:45:09.000 You can't do that anymore.

00:45:10.000 You just get in trouble.

00:45:11.000 Yeah, it's like back then.

00:45:13.000 If you were to ask, okay, you know, have a hit list of just like ready to laugh your ass off movies that are just like low effort.

00:45:22.000 You don't have to think too much.

00:45:23.000 You can just sit down and enjoy.

00:45:24.000 There's a bunch of bangers from back then, but it's like nowadays, I don't even know what to go to.

00:45:28.000 They don't happen anymore.

00:45:30.000 Like the Fairleigh Brothers movies, like Kingpin, fucking great movie.

00:45:34.000 You know, there's so much something about Mary.

00:45:36.000 There's so many of those like outrageous, hysterical movies that it was funny.

00:45:41.000 I asked Robert Downey Jr. I was like, I go, you couldn't do blackface in a movie today.

00:45:47.000 He goes, oh, you could do it.

00:45:50.000 But what would happen afterwards is the big deal.

00:45:53.000 He got it in like, it's like the scene in a movie where the elevator door closes right before the monster gets to you.

00:46:00.000 He got there just in time.

00:46:02.000 And like, it was perfect timing where he didn't suffer from it.

00:46:06.000 No, yeah.

00:46:07.000 It's crazy to see the Delta and just like, I don't even know what to watch when I go on Netflix now.

00:46:12.000 Well, with comedies, it's really fucking hard.

00:46:15.000 It's really hard.

00:46:16.000 The only thing that's really wild and free is stand-up comedy.

00:46:20.000 Like to do a comedy movie and just go full Tropic Thunder is almost impossible today.

00:46:29.000 But if somebody did it, if somebody just self-financed it, oh my God, it would fucking kill.

00:46:34.000 It would make so much money and then it would open up the floodgates because people still want that. 0.96

00:46:38.000 You know, they still love it.

00:46:40.000 Like it's, it's not that you agree with everything these people are saying and doing.

00:46:45.000 It's comedy.

00:46:46.000 Like I don't agree with John Wick killing everybody.

00:46:49.000 You know what I mean?

00:46:50.000 Like, but he's not really killing everybody.

00:46:51.000 Like it's a fucking movie.

00:46:53.000 And it used to be that you knew that when you went into these movies before everybody was like looking for everything to potentially be offended by.

00:47:01.000 Yeah.

00:47:02.000 It's just like ruined everything.

00:47:04.000 What do you watch now?

00:47:05.000 I don't watch comedies anymore.

00:47:07.000 But like just in general, do you have any like kind of just like low barrier?

00:47:11.000 Just I sit down and turn my brain off this.

00:47:13.000 Oh, there's a lot of great stuff.

00:47:14.000 You know what I watched last night, Jamie?

00:47:16.000 You recommended Pluribus?

00:47:19.000 Is that what it's called?

00:47:20.000 I only watched the first episode, but what a weird show, right?

00:47:23.000 Holy shit, is it good?

00:47:25.000 Holy shit, is it good?

00:47:27.000 It's a new Apple show.

00:47:29.000 And I don't want to give away too much, but it has something to do with aliens and aliens send a transmission to Earth and there's like this insane impact on society.

00:47:41.000 But it's like fucking total left field movie.

00:47:44.000 You don't see it coming.

00:47:45.000 It's crazy.

00:47:46.000 Or not movie, television show.

00:47:48.000 And again, I, like Jamie, I've only seen the first episode, but it's great.

00:47:53.000 It's like, holy shit, he's giving you anxiety.

00:47:56.000 It's so good.

00:47:57.000 Did you guys watch, what was that other Apple show that was really good?

00:48:00.000 It was like in an office setting.

00:48:03.000 I can't believe I'm forgetting it.

00:48:04.000 Severance.

00:48:04.000 Yeah.

00:48:05.000 Did you guys watch that?

00:48:06.000 Severance was great.

00:48:07.000 Especially the first episode or the first season.

00:48:10.000 First season was great.

00:48:11.000 After a while, they get a little weird because you're like, you're running this very strange game that you're doing.

00:48:17.000 People remember and don't remember.

00:48:19.000 And then you're fucking with the guy's head so he can remember. 0.87

00:48:23.000 Yeah.

00:48:24.000 What about Stranger Things and It?

00:48:26.000 Those are two that my girlfriend has me watching right now.

00:48:29.000 I watched the first episode of Stranger Things last night as well.

00:48:33.000 Or yesterday as well.

00:48:34.000 That was great.

00:48:35.000 Yeah.

00:48:36.000 That's, dude, it's kind of crazy how much time is between these seasons now.

00:48:40.000 It's like you finish.

00:48:41.000 I almost like can't don't want to commit to something because it's like, well, if I like it.

00:48:45.000 Yeah.

00:48:46.000 Fuck you to me.

00:48:47.000 Fuck you.

00:48:47.000 You know?

00:48:48.000 So this three years for the next season.

00:48:50.000 Game of Thrones.

00:48:51.000 It's a great example of that.

00:48:52.000 Oh, dude.

00:48:53.000 House of Dragon?

00:48:54.000 Like, good luck seeing the next season, bro.

00:48:56.000 Well, not only that, like, unfortunately with House of Dragons, it's got to follow Game of Thrones, which is like one of the best series of all time.

00:49:03.000 And the characters just aren't as compelling for whatever reason.

00:49:07.000 And so I don't know who the fuck anybody is.

00:49:09.000 So the new season starts.

00:49:10.000 I'm like, who's that?

00:49:12.000 And maybe I just have a monkey brain, but I watch it.

00:49:12.000 Yeah.

00:49:14.000 I'm like, I didn't see a dragon the whole fucking episode.

00:49:18.000 I feel ripped off.

00:49:19.000 Yeah, I need a dragon.

00:49:20.000 I need that dragon to fucking kill somebody.

00:49:22.000 I need to burn somebody alive.

00:49:24.000 Yeah, it's, there's a lot of great shows now, but again, it's very hard to make a great comedy.

00:49:32.000 You can make a great, like, mindless, entertainment, like, fun show.

00:49:37.000 Slow horses, that's a great show.

00:49:39.000 It's a, is that an Apple show?

00:49:41.000 I believe it is, yeah.

00:49:42.000 That's another Apple show with Gary Oldman.

00:49:45.000 It's a spy, M5, or MI, what is it?

00:49:49.000 MI5?

00:49:50.000 What do they call themselves?

00:49:51.000 Yeah, MI.

00:49:52.000 MI5?

00:49:53.000 The numbers of the person.

00:49:54.000 I think it's whatever.

00:49:56.000 I don't know.

00:49:57.000 It's a spy show.

00:49:57.000 Whatever it is.

00:49:59.000 That's a really good show.

00:49:59.000 British spy show.

00:50:00.000 It is MI5.

00:50:01.000 Yeah.

00:50:02.000 I mean, there's a lot of great shows to watch.

00:50:04.000 Like, there's, I think it's probably the best time ever for content.

00:50:08.000 If you just want to sit and be entertained, it's probably the best time ever because of streaming.

00:50:13.000 Because streaming, instead of, you know, one episode, you're watching a show and it takes place over an hour.

00:50:18.000 And then the next episode is totally different.

00:50:22.000 A totally different subject line, different story.

00:50:24.000 No, it's like the thing.

00:50:26.000 You get locked into these characters.

00:50:28.000 Like Sopranos, I think, was like the first one to really do that excellently and drag it out over, you know, many, many seasons.

00:50:36.000 We have this like running storyline.

00:50:40.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:50:42.000 I'm kind of just like tuned out of TV at this point.

00:50:45.000 I just watch what my girlfriend wants to watch.

00:50:47.000 And Stranger Things and It is the thing right now.

00:50:49.000 Yeah, I watched the new It show.

00:50:51.000 I watched the first episode of that too.

00:50:51.000 Yeah.

00:50:53.000 That looks great.

00:50:53.000 It's like oddly overlapping with the Stranger Things.

00:50:56.000 I feel like I'm kind of watching the same show all the time.

00:50:58.000 of like obviously totally different overall stories but like you know you have kids and these kind of like and evil things And I don't want to wreck an episode, but they mention it, not specifically it, but a story about an extraterrestrial evil being called it in a Stranger Things episode.

00:51:18.000 I'm like, this is a weird fucking reference for these being at the same time right now.

00:51:22.000 Yeah.

00:51:23.000 Well, they probably didn't plan that out, right?

00:51:25.000 Yeah, I don't, I don't know, man.

00:51:27.000 Welcome to Dairy. 0.71

00:51:27.000 What is it called? 0.71

00:51:28.000 Is that what it's called?

00:51:29.000 Yeah.

00:51:30.000 The new one?

00:51:31.000 But it's good.

00:51:32.000 The release date scheduling makes absolutely no sense for Stranger Things too.

00:51:32.000 That's good, too.

00:51:36.000 It's like in batches, and the next batch is coming out on Christmas.

00:51:40.000 And then the final one is New Year's.

00:51:41.000 New Year's?

00:51:42.000 It's like the exact times you probably can't bang out all the episodes.

00:51:47.000 Or you're going to have to force your family to sit there with you.

00:51:50.000 What's that?

00:51:51.000 High school kids can.

00:51:52.000 Yeah, high school kids can't.

00:51:54.000 Well, I think Stranger Things is so big they could fucking watch it at three o'clock in the morning and it would still get 30 million views.

00:52:01.000 But like, just such a weird choice.

00:52:03.000 I don't know.

00:52:04.000 Well, it's just weird that it takes so long to make one of those damn things that you have to wait three years in between seasons.

00:52:10.000 And then you have these kids that are playing 15-year-olds and now they're fucking 30.

00:52:15.000 Yeah.

00:52:16.000 It's kind of weird.

00:52:17.000 You can tell some of them it's like, how do we make you look as young as possible?

00:52:21.000 You give them goofy haircuts.

00:52:21.000 Yeah.

00:52:23.000 And then there's also like, spoiler alert, there's some computer-generated imaging.

00:52:29.000 So they're using some sort of an AI program to make scenes with the kids when they were young.

00:52:35.000 And you kind of can tell, but you kind of can't tell.

00:52:35.000 Yeah.

00:52:38.000 It's like really good.

00:52:39.000 Yeah.

00:52:40.000 Nowadays, it's like you feel like you could just AI generate the whole thing.

00:52:40.000 Yeah.

00:52:44.000 Yeah.

00:52:45.000 Well, it's getting close.

00:52:47.000 You know, it's getting to the point where, you know, there's no excuse for waiting three years because you could have AI generated scripts and do it in an hour.

00:52:57.000 What about F1?

00:52:58.000 You guys following it at all right now?

00:53:00.000 The show or the actual?

00:53:01.000 No, just the actual racing.

00:53:03.000 I went to the F1 that was in Austin.

00:53:04.000 It was amazing.

00:53:05.000 This year?

00:53:05.000 Yeah.

00:53:06.000 It's awesome.

00:53:06.000 Okay.

00:53:07.000 For, I think, right now, it's the first time in the last 15 years they've had three drivers coming down to the final race to win the championship between them.

00:53:19.000 And the final race is this weekend.

00:53:21.000 Yeah.

00:53:21.000 Oh, really?

00:53:22.000 It's like where is it?

00:53:24.000 I think it's in, is it in Abu Dhabi?

00:53:26.000 I don't know.

00:53:27.000 That might have been the race that just happened, but it was nuts, dude.

00:53:29.000 It's because right now you had McLaren, who was like a shoe-in to have their main driver, or at least the guy who was in the lead, take it, but they're refusing to favor one over the other, which is a typical strategy for whoever's in the lead.

00:53:42.000 You'll have the other one kind of like block people for them to make sure they win the driver's championship.

00:53:47.000 They're refusing to do that?

00:53:48.000 Yeah, they're like making sure they can have equal opportunities to win, but the net result might now be none of them win, and a guy from Red Bull takes the thing.

00:53:56.000 Oh, that's crazy.

00:53:58.000 Is it because the drivers aren't willing to do that?

00:54:01.000 I guess, but also just lack of enforcement from the pit boss, like team guy, who's like supposed to be enforcing team principles and whatnot.

00:54:10.000 It is kind of funky that that's how you win.

00:54:13.000 You have someone.

00:54:14.000 It's a team game.

00:54:15.000 I mean, like, there's a team-generated points between the two drivers, which can result in the team championship.

00:54:24.000 But the thing that most people actually care about is who's the best driver in the world.

00:54:29.000 And that will be coming down to one person, even if it's a guy from a team that won the thing.

00:54:29.000 Right.

00:54:35.000 They're still competing against each other.

00:54:36.000 And sometimes they can get pretty reckless where they're, you know, one is not willing to compromise and he'll like blow the whole thing up to make sure that he has the best opportunity, understandably, but it's also like you guys are getting paid tens of millions of dollars.

00:54:49.000 Maybe you should listen to your fucking guy who's telling you what to do.

00:54:53.000 This is an ad for BetterHelp.

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00:56:05.000 That's better, H-E-L-P dot com/slash J-R-E. 0.97

00:56:10.000 Yeah, I get it.

00:56:12.000 But then again, if you're on another team, you're like, well, this is kind of bullshit because this guy didn't really win the race.

00:56:19.000 He won the race because his friends blocked everybody.

00:56:22.000 Yeah.

00:56:22.000 Fair enough.

00:56:23.000 But I mean, like, part of it is kind of like that.

00:56:26.000 That's like part of the strategy.

00:56:27.000 Oh, I get it.

00:56:28.000 I get it.

00:56:29.000 But maybe we should abandon that strategy.

00:56:31.000 Because if it is a race.

00:56:33.000 Yeah.

00:56:34.000 I guess it's just problematic because it's so bandwidth intensive too to manage the two drivers that if they're equally trying to win and only one is more likely to, what may very well happen on this weekend is they both don't win.

00:56:49.000 Interesting.

00:56:50.000 Yeah.

00:56:50.000 So I got a tour of the McLaren pit last year and they showed me like all the different technology that's involved and they gave me a like a rundown of how much engineering is involved in these things and explained everything.

00:57:05.000 It's crazy.

00:57:06.000 They're all just trying to shave tenths of seconds out of turns and then it all accumulates over the course of the race.

00:57:13.000 Yeah, it's like pretty psychotic when you look at what the differential is and kind of like what really separates these guys.

00:57:20.000 It's often just like minuscule amounts and just like the littlest mistake.

00:57:26.000 You know, what are those guys on?

00:57:28.000 That's what I want to know.

00:57:29.000 Do they test them?

00:57:31.000 They are tested, but not to the rigor of like an Olympic.

00:57:35.000 Do they test them for a gorilla mine?

00:57:38.000 I'm sure they're probably using it.

00:57:40.000 This is probably a good thing for them to take.

00:57:42.000 Probably for something that's not banned, yeah.

00:57:44.000 But is any of this stuff banned, do you think?

00:57:46.000 In 2001?

00:57:47.000 None of it.

00:57:48.000 This is all like very straight-edge, like really tried and true neutropics that work through kind of like endogenous pathways or things that otherwise backfill neurotransmitters similar to like the creatine deficiency that we talked about.

00:58:03.000 If you backfill it and you can otherwise, you know, have a readily available source of phosphocreatine to offset ATP deficits, L-tyrosine, stuff like that, similar just in regards to dopamine, for example.

00:58:16.000 I'm an hour in and I feel it.

00:58:18.000 It's legit.

00:58:19.000 Yeah, it's very legit.

00:58:20.000 And again, it's very delicious.

00:58:21.000 So congratulations on that.

00:58:22.000 Oh, thank you.

00:58:23.000 Those guys lose a ton of weight too during those races.

00:58:26.000 Oh, dude, so much water loss.

00:58:27.000 Because you're fucking hot as shit in those suits, so you don't burn alive if you crash.

00:58:31.000 Yeah, so new different strategies like hyperhydration, using things like liquid glycerol could be impactful to retain more water.

00:58:38.000 Do they wear a diaper? 0.77

00:58:40.000 I don't know.

00:58:41.000 But how long is the race?

00:58:43.000 It could be, it kind of, I think it depends, but it's like upwards of an hour, an hour and a half.

00:58:48.000 So yeah, just piss yourself.

00:58:50.000 Yeah.

00:58:51.000 Yeah.

00:58:51.000 Just sit in your own pee for an hour and a half.

00:58:53.000 Yeah, you would have to.

00:58:56.000 I would imagine with that kind of money on the line, just fucking let it go, baby. 0.79

00:58:59.000 Yeah, I don't even know if you'd have to, though, if you're just like perspiring like a motherfucker.

00:59:04.000 You come out drenched.

00:59:05.000 Yeah, and they've lost like that's a good point.

00:59:05.000 Right.

00:59:08.000 But sometimes in the sauna, I have to pee.

00:59:11.000 Yeah.

00:59:11.000 Oh, yeah.

00:59:11.000 Sometimes I'm like 15 minutes into a sauna session.

00:59:14.000 I'm like, God damn it, I can't hold it.

00:59:16.000 So I got to open the door and go out and piss outside and then climb back in again.

00:59:20.000 Have you ever tried glycerol for hyperhydration?

00:59:22.000 No.

00:59:23.000 What is that?

00:59:24.000 It's just like straight up glycerol.

00:59:26.000 Like a sugar, but it also has a hyperhydrating effect that you can hold upwards of an extra pound of body water if you have it as a supplement.

00:59:34.000 So, some endurance athletes will use it before events in order to retain more water in a way that is not, it enhances like thermoregulation, your ability to tolerate stress.

00:59:46.000 You don't lose as much, you don't dehydrate as fast.

00:59:48.000 There's a lot of upsides for its kind of like unique application.

00:59:52.000 Maybe even avoiding pissing at nighttime could be really potentially, yeah.

00:59:57.000 Oh, that would help because I always have to pee.

01:00:00.000 Yeah, one thing that stopped that helps me is sauna before bed, though.

01:00:04.000 Sauna before bed, I can generally sleep through the night.

01:00:06.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:00:07.000 So, I'll do like a session about an hour before I go to sleep and no water after that.

01:00:12.000 Oh, yeah, that usually does it.

01:00:14.000 Yeah, if you do a water cutoff, that's like pretty regimented.

01:00:17.000 It's probably the best overall strategy, as long as you make sure you hydrate in the morning.

01:00:22.000 So, I'm pretty diligent about that.

01:00:24.000 First step in the morning, amino acids with water.

01:00:27.000 Like, I do that 99% of the time, like first thing, before coffee, before anything.

01:00:33.000 Since you put electrolytes in it, yeah, yeah.

01:00:36.000 I take Gary Brecca's stuff.

01:00:38.000 It's called Perfect Aminos, Aminos and Electrolytes.

01:00:41.000 I get that in first thing in the morning, just you know, get it out of the way.

01:00:47.000 And I didn't used to for the longest time, I would just hit the gym right away and just drink water when I was in there.

01:00:52.000 But I feel a difference.

01:00:53.000 What about I thought step one was cold plunge?

01:00:56.000 Yeah, it depends.

01:00:58.000 Um, I haven't cold plunged in the last three weeks because I got some stem cells and I'm still sauna-ing, so it seems like there's a lot of controversy about this in terms of like what you should and shouldn't do post-stem cell injection.

01:01:16.000 I have a very minor Achilles tear when I was elk hunting in September.

01:01:22.000 I twisted my ankle pretty bad, and I didn't think anything of it.

01:01:26.000 I stopped limping after like 15 or 20 minutes, and I was like, I think I'm okay.

01:01:30.000 And I have, and I was wearing at the time, I was wearing very light boots.

01:01:36.000 They're like, you know, just a real light boot that you wouldn't do for heavy mountain trekking.

01:01:44.000 And we did some steep elevation, and then the real problem is going down.

01:01:49.000 And you're, you know, when you're going down like several thousand feet over the course of like an hour, it's fucking brutal.

01:01:57.000 And I twisted one of my ankles, and then the next day, I put on a much higher, more rigid boot with great ankle support, and I was fine for the rest of the trip.

01:02:07.000 But then it's the fucking worst when you just got to like stare at the ground the entire time you're walking because the littlest off step, you just roll your ankle or not only that, you go down, you know, you could die.

01:02:19.000 We were in pretty steep country in Utah, but interestingly, I didn't notice anything was wrong until I'd get into a push-up position, which is weird.

01:02:30.000 So, when you know, I do 100 push-ups every morning, 100 push-ups, 100 bodyweight squats.

01:02:34.000 That's my warm-up before I do anything.

01:02:36.000 And so, when I got into like a high push-up position with like my butt up in the air, it's a lot of stretching on the Achilles.

01:02:44.000 And my left Achilles was fucking killing me, like sharp pain.

01:02:48.000 I was like, fuck, this hurts.

01:02:50.000 And I thought maybe I, maybe it needs to stretch out.

01:02:52.000 So, I did something like jump rope doesn't bother me.

01:02:54.000 Jump rope doesn't bother me.

01:02:55.000 Nothing else bothers me.

01:02:56.000 But that position bothered me and it was bothering me for like five weeks.

01:03:01.000 And I was like, all right, I got to get this looked at because it seems like it might be getting worse every time I do that.

01:03:06.000 And so I got it scanned, and there's a minor tear in my Achilles.

01:03:11.000 And Achilles tears are a fucking nightmare.

01:03:15.000 You know, if you blow out your Achilles, that's a nightmare.

01:03:18.000 It's a long rehabilitation process.

01:03:20.000 Blood flow to the area, especially at 58.

01:03:23.000 Yeah.

01:03:23.000 It's a fucking, that's a long recovery.

01:03:26.000 I'm just like, I'm looking at a year before I could do everything again.

01:03:28.000 Then you lose all your gains, all your cardio gains, everything.

01:03:32.000 You can't move right.

01:03:33.000 You're fucked.

01:03:34.000 So I got a stem cell shot in there.

01:03:37.000 And there's a lot of debate about when you should be able to cold plunge after stem cells.

01:03:44.000 And a lot of the literature seems to say three months.

01:03:50.000 It doesn't seem to think sauna, there's more indication that sauna is probably therapeutically beneficial for the stem cells because the idea is that the stem cells are still in the area trying to heal the tissue.

01:04:09.000 When you cold plunge, you kill them.

01:04:11.000 But when you're doing sauna, you're increasing blood flow and it might help them.

01:04:16.000 So what they said is like, I wouldn't do anything for a couple weeks, nothing.

01:04:21.000 And then after that, just sauna for a while.

01:04:23.000 So I haven't done a cold plunge in over a month.

01:04:26.000 Seems excessive.

01:04:27.000 I'm not that.

01:04:28.000 I'm scared to go back in.

01:04:30.000 Yeah.

01:04:30.000 Because I was so used to it.

01:04:32.000 Oh, you got to get over the hurdle again.

01:04:33.000 I'm so scared.

01:04:34.000 Every time I do it, I almost don't do it.

01:04:36.000 Every fucking time I do it, I almost don't do it.

01:04:40.000 So like for the past month, it's just been get up and just work out and then sauna afterwards.

01:04:45.000 What's the rehab stack?

01:04:47.000 Is it any different than what you were already doing or is it kind of like BBC 157, TB500?

01:04:53.000 That's it.

01:04:53.000 It's definitely improved.

01:04:54.000 BPC local in the Achilles? 0.98

01:04:56.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:04:57.000 Right there.

01:04:58.000 Or you just pinch the sub-Q area and kind of I shove it right in there. 0.99

01:05:02.000 I think local is the way to go.

01:05:04.000 I've done it subcutaneously, like in the side and love handles.

01:05:09.000 It doesn't have the same effect.

01:05:10.000 Yeah, if you can get it to the area, it's like, why not?

01:05:13.000 Yeah, I think BPC 157 locally is the way to go.

01:05:17.000 But it's definitely getting a lot better.

01:05:19.000 It doesn't hurt at all anymore.

01:05:22.000 I'm just making sure it fully heals up.

01:05:24.000 Yeah.

01:05:25.000 Interesting note on kind of like the hormone support stuff.

01:05:29.000 This past month, the FDA actually removed most of the black box warnings off of women's HRT products.

01:05:38.000 Yes.

01:05:39.000 Pretty amazing.

01:05:39.000 Yeah, really amazing because so many women were lied to for so long.

01:05:44.000 They were told that there's all these negative effects of supplementing your hormones.

01:05:48.000 But my God, how many fucking people just said lost quality of life for fucking nothing, for no science at all?

01:05:54.000 It's just complete horseshit.

01:05:56.000 But there's so much bad fucking science out there, man.

01:06:00.000 It's a real problem.

01:06:00.000 It's hot as shit in here.

01:06:02.000 There's so much bad science out there, man.

01:06:04.000 It almost gets to a point where you almost have to look at things through the lens of, does this sound like nonsense?

01:06:11.000 Yeah.

01:06:11.000 Well, and then where do you go?

01:06:13.000 Like, who do you trust?

01:06:14.000 You know, unless you're well versed in who the respectable online people are.

01:06:22.000 Yeah.

01:06:22.000 Like you might see however many studies that say fill in the blank exotic compound is like totally ineffective.

01:06:29.000 And it's like, who was it tested on for how long?

01:06:32.000 What was the dosage?

01:06:33.000 You know, and like it might be a completely useless interpretation for your specific nuanced scenario.

01:06:39.000 And if you hear hordes of anecdotes from everyone in your circle you trust who actually knows what they're talking about, has been in the trenches, knows their body well, you can't really ignore that.

01:06:50.000 What was the narrative about female hormones and why did they, why did they do that for so long? 1.00

01:06:56.000 Do you know?

01:06:56.000 So I think it was in the 90s, the Women's Health Initiative were assessing the viability and safety profile of hormone replacement therapy.

01:07:05.000 And I might butcher this a little bit, but in general, the overall context is relatively accurate, I'm sure.

01:07:12.000 And it was like of a thousand women or something that they tested HRT. 0.99

01:07:16.000 When I say HRT, I put in air quotes because like estrogen.

01:07:20.000 Not even like human bioidentical estrogen.

01:07:23.000 Was like equine horse piss derived estrogens.

01:07:27.000 Horse piss?

01:07:28.000 Yeah.

01:07:28.000 For real?

01:07:29.000 So it was like literally the most synthetic, you know, animal-derived, shitty estrogen that is not bioidentical at all.

01:07:29.000 Yeah.

01:07:37.000 And also a synthetic progestin that is not bioidentical to progesterone.

01:07:43.000 It's just like a progestin analog essentially that fulfills activity at the receptor, but is otherwise like, you know, the equivalent of putting you on like a micro dose of nandrolone or a micro dose of, you know, fill-in-the-blank progestin-derived compound or 19-nord-derived compound that facilitates progestogenic activity, but just is not progesterone.

01:08:05.000 So it's like to try and say, you know, this horse piss-derived estrogen formula and the synthetic progestin we apply to these women is the equivalent of you having been on what you would otherwise produce as a young, healthy, vibrant woman from a bioidentical estradiol and progesterone perspective.

01:08:23.000 Simply not accurate, but that's like essentially the comparison that they made and, you know, presented it as such.

01:08:29.000 And the result was a relative risk increase of breast cancer incidence, I believe, to the tune of like one of a thousand women.

01:08:38.000 And the absolute number was like three of a thousand in the placebo arm had breast cancer incidence.

01:08:45.000 And then I think four out of a thousand had breast cancer. 0.70

01:08:48.000 So then the media ran with a 26% increase in risk.

01:08:54.000 So everybody got panicky.

01:08:55.000 Yeah.

01:08:56.000 And like I might be misinterpreting one or two variables, but like high level, that's essentially what it was.

01:09:01.000 And it caused mass hysteria and panic and basically dictated the facilitation of black box warnings being put on hormone therapy.

01:09:09.000 So the most aggressive FDA warning that shows basically any clinician that's looking at it or anybody who's going to like take the risk of using it, this is the most dangerous drug you could use with the highest risk of like lethal side effect potential.

01:09:25.000 And then on top of that, it just like wasn't representative of what is actual replacement therapy with what is the hormone you would be producing naturally.

01:09:33.000 So for years, you know, we went thinking, oh, it's going to cause clotting issues.

01:09:38.000 It's going to cause cancer. 0.60

01:09:39.000 It's going to do this.

01:09:40.000 It's going to do that.

01:09:41.000 And only in the most nuanced edge case scenarios is it justified because, you know, that person just absolutely has a quality of life deterioration that is so significant that it's worth it to take the risk to use hormone replacement therapy.

01:09:54.000 And it's like now, similar to some of the like common sense interpretation of things, like this doesn't make sense.

01:10:00.000 Like, look at all this literature showing the cardioprotective effects, showing the neuroprotective effects, showing the bone support and integrity.

01:10:06.000 Look at what you lose if you don't take these hormones.

01:10:09.000 Like you were essentially giving yourself a worse quality of life, inevitably, and deteriorating your health unquestionably.

01:10:18.000 Like with men, there is some semblance of residual activity you can maintain.

01:10:22.000 And some men maintain vibrant, you know, reasonable testosterone production until old age.

01:10:27.000 But with women, it's kind of like right when the lights shut off. 1.00

01:10:31.000 Yeah.

01:10:31.000 It drops off a cliff.

01:10:32.000 Yeah.

01:10:33.000 It's interesting how the initial narratives get stuck in the public zeitgeist forever.

01:10:39.000 Like the initial narrative for testosterone replacement was you can get testicular cancer, prostate cancer.

01:10:45.000 And it was just so many people like, I don't want to mess around with testosterone replacement because I could get cancer.

01:10:51.000 And then Brigham Buehler explained that study and explained the real results of that study.

01:10:58.000 And it's like, it didn't show that anybody got prostate cancer from it.

01:11:01.000 It's just not true.

01:11:02.000 Yeah.

01:11:02.000 And it's like, even the mechanism by which they argue it would cause it doesn't even make mechanistic sense because it's like the only way you're going to increase the prostate growth is via bringing.

01:11:14.000 And it's like, of course, when you use hormones that are androgens, like you're going to grow tissues that they're exposed to, but it doesn't mean it's a bad thing necessarily.

01:11:23.000 And if you're a hypogonadal male who has low T and it goes up to just the threshold of barely acceptable, that's where the growth essentially stops.

01:11:32.000 And if you go beyond that into like medium normal, high normal, even super physiologic territory, your prostate doesn't linearly grow in exposure.

01:11:40.000 Otherwise, bodybuilders would have massive prostates like busting out of their bodies. 1.00

01:11:44.000 Giant dicks.

01:11:45.000 Imagine if they wish.

01:11:47.000 Didn't have it.

01:11:48.000 Well, how come it grows enlarged clitorises in women? 1.00

01:11:51.000 Because the physiology is essentially interchangeable in that you could have gone in any direction dependent on your exposure to these hormones.

01:12:01.000 So it's not.

01:12:03.000 Yeah.

01:12:04.000 So if a man exposes himself to significant amounts of estrogen and has no, has hormone deprivation, there are some irreversible anatomical changes because they've already like matured that will not go away.

01:12:17.000 But like with women, it's like the inverse and you could otherwise get closer to that like extreme scenario where you're once your voice box gets to a certain like anatomical development, you can't necessarily go back to your high-pitched, you know, problem with D-transitioners. 0.99

01:12:34.000 They keep that voice forever.

01:12:36.000 And it's the real problem is it never even becomes a man voice.

01:12:39.000 It just becomes weird.

01:12:42.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:12:42.000 You know what I mean?

01:12:43.000 It's like the inner.

01:12:44.000 Trans men never develop a voice like, you know, Isaac Hayes. 1.00

01:12:48.000 Yeah, that's one of the one of the tough things with HRT, too, is like, as much as I think it's so amazing that it's being educated about and there's widespread attention being brought to the importance of it.

01:13:01.000 There's also the cowboy docs who almost go to the hyper extreme of optimization and are putting women on aggressive dosages of testosterone, saying, you've been lying to, you know, this is actually what you need to feel good.

01:13:14.000 And for a woman who's been, you know, asexual for years and feels, you know, has no energy and they are told this guy is, you know, the cutting-edge doc who everyone sees, they will probably trust his guidance.

01:13:26.000 And as early as before I started Merrick Health, which is my company, my mom was getting hormone therapy guidance from a doc who was relatively well respected.

01:13:38.000 And the dose he put her on of testosterone was so aggressive that her voice was changing within weeks.

01:13:43.000 And I had to like cut the cord on it.

01:13:44.000 I was like, what the hell is this?

01:13:46.000 And her testosterone levels were like in the like 300s plus.

01:13:50.000 Whoa.

01:13:50.000 So like you're essentially low, low normal, healthy male territory, not like actually, but like on a clinical reference range, and absolutely potential for masculinization.

01:13:50.000 Yeah.

01:14:01.000 Yeah.

01:14:02.000 And also horny as fuck.

01:14:04.000 Yeah.

01:14:04.000 Potentially.

01:14:04.000 But it's like you didn't need to go there probably to get to horny as fuck.

01:14:08.000 My wife has a friend who got on it and she's a British lady and she had a very funny face. 0.98

01:14:13.000 She goes, his stuff makes me feel like a bloke.

01:14:16.000 She goes, I'm horny like a bloke.

01:14:19.000 And testosterone can be helpful in women for sure. 0.99

01:14:23.000 And it's an overlooked hormone that is absolutely important in women, just the same as it is in men.

01:14:29.000 It's just like you got to kind of know what you're getting yourself into too When it comes to what is reasonable for a doctor to tell you you need and at what concentrations you should expect, you know, blood level targets to be.

01:14:43.000 Because if you just go in blind, you might end up with the most exotic, you know, like Beverly Hills doc who thinks you should be on like the craziest cocktail ever because he knows you're going to feel it and respond really, really well immediately, but then also might just like fuck you up permanently.

01:15:02.000 Well, this is also the problem with transitioners.

01:15:04.000 When you're becoming a trans man, right?

01:15:09.000 The initial impact is alleviation of anxiety and euphoria.

01:15:14.000 You start feeling great because that's what testosterone does for you.

01:15:18.000 It doesn't mean you're supposed to have that.

01:15:20.000 Your body's going, what the fuck is this?

01:15:22.000 And now you're, you know, essentially you're changing the whole cocktail of your body.

01:15:28.000 And you're, you know, and you're going to give permanent changes that if you make a decision when you're 14, 15 years old, they put you in this stuff.

01:15:37.000 Those detransitioners are some of the saddest stories, man. 1.00

01:15:41.000 Because they've become sterile.

01:15:43.000 They'll never have children.

01:15:44.000 And, you know, lose their tits because they go to a doctor that thinks you should have your memory glands chopped off when you're 15.

01:15:53.000 We're in the weirdest of times with all this stuff because it's like what gets accepted and not accepted.

01:15:58.000 And what, you know, what becomes, again, like we were talking about in the zeitgeist, when a thought gets out there and then it's very difficult to move away from that.

01:16:05.000 It's like, oh, you're affirming your true self.

01:16:07.000 Like, really?

01:16:08.000 With synthetic hormones that didn't exist in your body before, that's your true self?

01:16:15.000 Are you fucking sure?

01:16:16.000 It sounds like this might be a social contagion that is like sweeping through the land.

01:16:21.000 And one of the things that's really interesting is the drop-off of kids identifying as trans is it coincides directly with Elon buying Twitter.

01:16:32.000 Oh, wow.

01:16:32.000 Yeah.

01:16:33.000 Like immediately when you could, because he used to not be able to talk about it.

01:16:36.000 He used to like literally, if you dead name someone from Twitter, meaning like if you changed your name to Dominique and I called you Derek, I could get banned from Twitter for life forever.

01:16:49.000 That's crazy.

01:16:49.000 Just by using your old name.

01:16:50.000 Like if I called Bruce Caitlin Jenner Bruce, I would get banned from Twitter for life.

01:16:56.000 Damn.

01:16:57.000 Because it's nuts.

01:16:59.000 But it's like this very bizarre social contagion, this weird mind virus that went through the whole country.

01:17:06.000 And everybody just signed up for it.

01:17:08.000 And no one wanted to be a bigot.

01:17:09.000 So like, oh, I don't want to be a bigot.

01:17:11.000 Yeah, I think as much as I think access to drugs is super, like you should have the full liberty to do whatever you want.

01:17:19.000 That's where the importance of educating yourself is so critical because you really don't know what you're subjecting yourself to.

01:17:25.000 If you have an immature brain too, you have not even had full frontal lobe development to try and think you're going to make a sound decision with how you're going to impact your lifelong physiology.

01:17:36.000 It's like probably.

01:17:37.000 You can't even have a tattoo.

01:17:38.000 It's not even legal to get a tattoo and you get your penis removed. 0.61

01:17:41.000 It's fucking crazy.

01:17:43.000 It's fucking crazy.

01:17:45.000 Oh, they know.

01:17:46.000 Some people know as early as three.

01:17:48.000 I've had conversations with people on this podcast.

01:17:50.000 I have friends that have trans kids and they knew right away.

01:17:53.000 Like, are you sure they didn't have a fucking insane mother and a gay child? 1.00

01:17:56.000 Because that might be what was going on.

01:17:58.000 And now this gay child will never have an orgasm again because you've convinced them that they're not a gay child, that they're a woman, which is in fact completely homophobic. 0.94

01:18:06.000 Yeah.

01:18:07.000 Yeah.

01:18:07.000 Interesting extreme of the scenario, but maybe on the opposite is guys who are in their in adolescence who are so hyper-educated that they use the knowledge to biohack their development into becoming as maximally tall and like infrastructurally sound as adults as possible.

01:18:26.000 And that's a really interesting predicament because it's like any like a reasonably ethical doctor will be like, there's no fucking way I'm touching that like case of any overseeing anybody's care who's doing that kind of thing.

01:18:26.000 Right, right.

01:18:39.000 I was watching a podcast about this where this guy was talking about his son and he's short and his son is short and his son's friends were also short and their parents got the kid on growth when they were and they grew like a lot bigger than the parents.

01:18:53.000 Yeah.

01:18:54.000 Which is Alexander Corellin.

01:18:56.000 Do you know Corellin's story?

01:18:59.000 They call him the experiment.

01:19:01.000 He's the freakiest wrestler that has ever existed.

01:19:03.000 I know who it is, but I didn't know that specifically it was in adolescence that he was subjected to.

01:19:07.000 Well, this is speculation on my part.

01:19:10.000 Have you seen my photo that I have out in the gym?

01:19:12.000 It's the photo that I put up to remind myself of what a pussy I really am.

01:19:16.000 Is that when he's like about to fucking tall?

01:19:20.000 That picture, that one.

01:19:21.000 Yeah, it's a famous one.

01:19:22.000 That guy was 300 fucking pounds and moved like a cat.

01:19:26.000 Like unbelievably mobile and flexible and had like an insane record.

01:19:32.000 I think it was like 280 and one or 280 and two.

01:19:37.000 Like fucking insane.

01:19:38.000 Like one of the most dominant wrestlers of all time.

01:19:39.000 But there's, they call him in Russia, they would call him the experiment.

01:19:43.000 Yeah.

01:19:43.000 And you see his parents, his parents like 5'5, 5'7, like small people.

01:19:48.000 And he's this fucking behemoth of a person.

01:19:52.000 And of course, the Soviet doping program is legendary. 0.55

01:19:55.000 The movie Icarus highlights that, you know, but everybody knew about that.

01:19:59.000 The Eastern Bloc weightlifters, the females, they set records that were never broken again.

01:20:04.000 These women completely became men. 0.89

01:20:08.000 There's a lot of evidence that they were doing that to their athletes.

01:20:11.000 The fact that they wouldn't do it to their most dominant wrestler in the history of the fucking sport and the guy who was the absolute biggest freak in the history of wrestling.

01:20:20.000 There was nobody like that guy.

01:20:22.000 Yeah, we should talk about some of those Russian drugs.

01:20:24.000 I heard you bring up trimetazadine with somebody the other day.

01:20:28.000 But before that, have you ever heard of the Lionel Messi story?

01:20:32.000 No.

01:20:33.000 Okay, so did you know that he was destined to be a dwarf if he didn't get on huge amounts of growth hormone?

01:20:38.000 Really?

01:20:38.000 Yeah.

01:20:39.000 So he got supplied with pharmaceutical growth hormone by the team that was trying to get him to basically be with them.

01:20:47.000 Well, he's a small guy as it is, right?

01:20:48.000 Yeah.

01:20:49.000 So he grew to what is otherwise an acceptable adult height, but he otherwise was destined to be literally a dwarf, whatever the socially acceptable term is.

01:20:59.000 Wow.

01:21:00.000 Yeah.

01:21:01.000 So they either paid for his pharmaceutical growth hormone and admitted, like got it for him, paid for it, made sure he was taking it, or he didn't become the greatest, some argue, you know, the football player of all time.

01:21:14.000 Well, it's also you have to take into consideration, like, how much of an effect did that have on his performance?

01:21:19.000 I mean, that guy can do things that no one else can do.

01:21:22.000 Well, he definitely wouldn't have grown to the height he is.

01:21:25.000 It's not just the height.

01:21:26.000 It's the explosive movement, his ability to change direction better than anybody.

01:21:32.000 The infrastructure is obviously supporting of it.

01:21:34.000 I don't necessarily know.

01:21:36.000 Yeah, it would be impossible to really quantify that.

01:21:39.000 There's no like, you know, A-B test of it.

01:21:42.000 Right.

01:21:43.000 Right.

01:21:43.000 There's no placebo-controlled trial.

01:21:45.000 But you know, if Twin didn't do it, he would not be even playing.

01:21:49.000 Wow.

01:21:50.000 I did not know that.

01:21:51.000 Yeah, it's probably one of the most overlooked but wild cases of a professional athlete who like needed to go like full board to the tits.

01:22:01.000 Wow.

01:22:02.000 How old was he when they did that to him?

01:22:04.000 A young teen, if not a child.

01:22:07.000 I think 11 years old.

01:22:08.000 Yeah.

01:22:09.000 Wow.

01:22:10.000 It was like you either take this at the dose that is going to like push you to maximal IGF-1 output territory and we get you to as high of maturation as possible or you're not going to be a professional player.

01:22:10.000 Yeah.

01:22:23.000 How tall is Messi now?

01:22:24.000 5'7 ⁇ .

01:22:25.000 Wow.

01:22:26.000 Yeah.

01:22:27.000 That's crazy.

01:22:28.000 You know, I told you the Yoel Romero story, right?

01:22:31.000 Probably.

01:22:32.000 Yoel Romero is the biggest athletic freak I've ever seen in my life.

01:22:36.000 And I've seen a lot of athletic freaks.

01:22:38.000 Like Yoel Romero, when he, I believe it was in Australia, he was fighting and after the fight, goes to a doctor to get checked up.

01:22:48.000 He had a fractured orbital.

01:22:49.000 He had a rough fight.

01:22:53.000 The doctor examines him and then says to the UFC, where did you get this guy?

01:22:57.000 Oh, yeah.

01:22:57.000 Can I tell you this?

01:22:58.000 Yeah.

01:22:59.000 And they go, hey, he's great, right?

01:23:00.000 He goes, no, no, no.

01:23:01.000 His tendons and his eyes are three times the size of a normal person.

01:23:07.000 They said his orbital bone is already healing.

01:23:09.000 Crazy.

01:23:10.000 Like, what do they do to him?

01:23:11.000 Because he was on the Cube and Olympic program.

01:23:13.000 Yeah.

01:23:13.000 You know, and the way he talks about it, like the program was like so regimented.

01:23:18.000 In fact, they had tiers of athletes and the highest tier ate three times a day.

01:23:24.000 The tier below that ate two times a day.

01:23:27.000 So it motivated you literally to get more food to compete.

01:23:32.000 And you're competing with these guys that their entire life is wrestling.

01:23:37.000 That is everything.

01:23:37.000 And it literally could feed their family.

01:23:39.000 It's a matter of whether or not their family gets food, whether it changes your social status.

01:23:44.000 And he goes, and because of that, you become a machine.

01:23:48.000 That's how he's saying it.

01:23:50.000 I could do a good Yoel.

01:23:51.000 You become a machine.

01:23:54.000 And he's the biggest freak of all time.

01:23:57.000 In fact, everybody who fights him says hitting him hurts.

01:24:02.000 Yeah.

01:24:03.000 What Robert Whitaker said is like hitting metal.

01:24:07.000 He goes, dude, he's like, you hit the guy.

01:24:09.000 He doesn't feel like a normal person.

01:24:11.000 He goes, it's like, you're hitting metal.

01:24:13.000 He's still competing, but in, was it one?

01:24:16.000 Dirty boxing.

01:24:17.000 His dirty boxing was his latest one.

01:24:20.000 He's almost 50.

01:24:22.000 He's jacked as fuck.

01:24:23.000 Now he's a heavyweight, full six-pack, almost 50 years old, fucking gigantic.

01:24:29.000 I mean, now he's got to be geared up.

01:24:31.000 I mean, I would imagine because he's in these like fringe leagues that, you know, their drug test is a fucking multiple choice.

01:24:38.000 What do you want?

01:24:39.000 I'm on Jesus.

01:24:41.000 He had that famous speech.

01:24:43.000 He was saying, don't forget about Jesus.

01:24:46.000 He goes, don't forget Jesus.

01:24:48.000 And everybody thought he was saying, no gay.

01:24:52.000 Jesus is not gay.

01:24:53.000 Oh, my God.

01:24:54.000 And so they thought he was homophobic.

01:24:55.000 And he's like, no, forget Jesus.

01:24:59.000 And he was saying, don't forget Jesus.

01:25:02.000 Like, Jesus is important.

01:25:03.000 And everybody's like, oh, my God, Yoel Romero used his platform to say homophobic things after a fight.

01:25:10.000 No, he can't speak English very well.

01:25:12.000 You know, and he's religious.

01:25:14.000 I feel like, yeah, that guy, he, I always felt like if he just kind of like threw himself into the fire more, he could just like crush it.

01:25:22.000 The problem is cardio.

01:25:23.000 When you're carrying around that much weight, you know, first of all, wrestling, his wrestling was above and beyond anybody else.

01:25:31.000 But he was just like slug when he didn't need to.

01:25:33.000 Well, they get in love with knocking people out, first of all.

01:25:36.000 And that guy's explosive capacity was, he knocked out Chris Wideman, one of the fucking scariest flying knees I've ever seen in my life.

01:25:43.000 It was a great fight up until the moment he put Chris Wideman into the shadow realm.

01:25:48.000 But he hit him with this flying knee, just explode.

01:25:50.000 He lulls you.

01:25:51.000 So what looks like he's tired or whatever.

01:25:54.000 Then he jumps on you.

01:25:55.000 And his ability to close the distance is so, it's like you think about wrestlers.

01:26:00.000 Like, did you see Bo Nichols last knockout?

01:26:04.000 He knocked out Adolfo Rieira with a head kick.

01:26:06.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:26:07.000 It was spectacular.

01:26:09.000 But what Bo Nick, Bo Nichols, an elite wrestler, like a top shelf blue chip wrestler.

01:26:15.000 And one of the things that wrestlers have is this ability to close distance because they're, you know, they're on the outside and they can just shoot doubles.

01:26:22.000 So that explosion naturally lends itself to closing the distance and striking because, you know, it's the same kind of thing.

01:26:29.000 If you develop good striking, and Hadolfo Vieira, who's like fucking super jacked, but he's a Gi Jiu-Jitsu guy.

01:26:36.000 Gi Jiu-Jitsu is all about strength and control technique as well, but it's a tight game.

01:26:43.000 It's not a game of like jumping, moving across distance quick.

01:26:47.000 It's a game of they're gripping each other.

01:26:49.000 And then, you know, it's a lot about strength and it's a lot about technique, but it's not about closing distance.

01:26:54.000 So Hadolfo Vieira is like a plodding, like really super jacked guy.

01:26:59.000 And Bo Nichols just light on his feet, moving on the outside and just closing distance, cracking them, getting out.

01:27:05.000 And he hits him with this fucking bomb head kick and puts him to sleep.

01:27:09.000 But it's that ability to close the distance.

01:27:13.000 Nobody did that better than Yoel.

01:27:15.000 Yoel was the best at that because he's just a fucking unbelievable athlete.

01:27:20.000 And with Izzy, he fought Ezrael Adesania and Izzy said, dude, I had to stay on the outside with that guy.

01:27:26.000 I could not just go after him because the counters would come so fast.

01:27:32.000 Yoel caught him with a big left hand early in the fight.

01:27:35.000 And he was like, oh, well, fuck this.

01:27:37.000 He's like, we're going to make this a boring fight.

01:27:39.000 I'm just going to win a decision on this motherfucker.

01:27:42.000 Because it's just the consequences of being too close to him where he can do that.

01:27:46.000 It's just, you have to fight a technical fight with that guy.

01:27:50.000 Stay on the outside, pick at him, move a lot.

01:27:54.000 Don't set your feet ever.

01:27:56.000 Never be in a place where he can just like, because he can just launch on you and blast you.

01:28:02.000 Yeah.

01:28:03.000 On the flip side of that, the leaping in the middle weight of Chimayev, ruthless to watch. 0.69

01:28:10.000 That was like the most painful fight I've seen recently.

01:28:12.000 Oh, yeah.

01:28:13.000 The Trickus Duplicity fight.

01:28:14.000 Yeah, well, that's just levels and levels above everyone else.

01:28:18.000 Just like closing distance, even when you know it's about to come.

01:28:21.000 You can't die.

01:28:22.000 Once he gets his hands on you, you're fucked.

01:28:25.000 There's something about that kind of wrestling from the Chechens and the Dagestanis and maybe even him more than any of the other ones. 0.96

01:28:34.000 It's just so aggressive.

01:28:36.000 And he chains things together so well.

01:28:39.000 And if you're not training with guys like that, like Schaub told me that he went to see Chimayev when Chemayev is in training camp for Drickus Duplicis.

01:28:48.000 And he called me up.

01:28:48.000 He goes, dude, listen to me.

01:28:51.000 Shaub was a top 10 UFC heavyweight.

01:28:53.000 He's been around forever.

01:28:55.000 He was in camp with George St. Pierre when George St. Pierre was in his prime.

01:28:59.000 Nate Marquardt.

01:29:00.000 Nate Marquardt was his prime.

01:29:01.000 He's like, dude, I've never seen nothing like this.

01:29:04.000 He goes, they were bringing in world-class wrestlers, and he's fucking ragdolling them. 0.55

01:29:09.000 He goes, he's a freak.

01:29:11.000 He goes, he's going to fuck Drickus up.

01:29:13.000 I go, really?

01:29:14.000 He goes, dude, if he gets a hold of that guy, he's fucked.

01:29:18.000 Turned out to be 100% accurate.

01:29:20.000 Yeah, it was like the most obscene example I've seen.

01:29:24.000 His wrestling is obscene.

01:29:25.000 That's a great way to put it.

01:29:26.000 His wrestling is obscene.

01:29:28.000 And if you can't compete, like this one thing that I said about Drickus after that fight, I was like, that gap is so wide.

01:29:35.000 That's like jumping across the Grand Canyon.

01:29:37.000 You're not going to make it.

01:29:38.000 Like, you would have to start.

01:29:40.000 You'd have to get a time machine, go back to the time when you're six and start wrestling in Dagestan.

01:29:45.000 Like, you've got to have those kind of skills to compete with that guy.

01:29:51.000 Only an elite wrestler who can also strike is going to be able to fuck with that guy. 0.94

01:29:56.000 Unless he gets silly and decides to strike with someone and they KO him.

01:29:59.000 Other than that, I just can't see anybody fucking with that guy.

01:30:03.000 Yeah, I mean, it's, I guess, needs somebody stylistically to match up to really.

01:30:09.000 Bo Nickel.

01:30:10.000 But Bo has to grow as a fighter.

01:30:10.000 Yeah.

01:30:13.000 You know, he has to grow as a fighter, and he's doing that.

01:30:16.000 I mean, he's an unbelievably dedicated and disciplined guy.

01:30:20.000 And if anybody can do it, he can do it because he's got that elite wrestling.

01:30:25.000 Like if they had a wrestling match, it would be fantastic.

01:30:28.000 But Chamaev is a much better striker right now.

01:30:31.000 At least has been up until this last fight with Vieira, which was a huge knockout.

01:30:36.000 But Vieira was kind of a standing target for Bo.

01:30:39.000 What did you think of the Usman positive test result?

01:30:43.000 Kind of interesting.

01:30:44.000 Oh, the bigger Usman.

01:30:46.000 Yeah.

01:30:46.000 His older brother.

01:30:47.000 Yeah, duh.

01:30:48.000 That's a duh.

01:30:49.000 He's fucking.

01:30:51.000 Yeah, I mean, it's unfortunate, you know, because the heavyweight division is so devoid of talent.

01:30:57.000 Yeah.

01:30:58.000 Gable Stevenson is the fucking guy.

01:31:01.000 That's the guy.

01:31:02.000 That's the guy.

01:31:02.000 He's not even in the UFC yet.

01:31:04.000 I mean, that Olympic gold medalist, fucking freak athlete, 250 pounds, moves like a cat.

01:31:10.000 That's the guy that he's every.

01:31:12.000 I sent a text message to Dana White.

01:31:14.000 I sent him a video of Gable's last fight.

01:31:16.000 I said, everyone's fucked.

01:31:18.000 Everyone's fucked when this guy comes out.

01:31:19.000 He KO'd this guy with a left hand.

01:31:22.000 He KO'd this guy with a left hand and then took him down as he was knocked out.

01:31:26.000 Watch this knockout because it's so fucking crazy.

01:31:28.000 The speed that this guy has.

01:31:31.000 First of all, really good striking already, and he's only been striking for like a fucking year.

01:31:36.000 But watch when he KOs this guy, he hits him with a punch, boom, and then takes him down.

01:31:43.000 Jesus.

01:31:44.000 Dude, everyone's fucked.

01:31:45.000 And then just, I mean, that's just nuts, man.

01:31:48.000 That kind of speed is nuts for a heavyweight.

01:31:50.000 Yeah.

01:31:51.000 Look at that left hook. 1.00

01:31:52.000 Boom.

01:31:52.000 Takes him down.

01:31:53.000 Smash.

01:31:54.000 And then that's like a video game combo.

01:31:56.000 Exactly.

01:31:57.000 And he can do backflips and shit.

01:31:59.000 When he fought in dirty boxing, he knocks the guy out and then he leaps over the top rope and lands on the apron.

01:32:06.000 Just leaps over the top rope with like effortless.

01:32:10.000 Freak.

01:32:11.000 Just a real freak.

01:32:12.000 And again, just like, watch this KO when he KOs this guy.

01:32:16.000 Well, first of all, this guy has no business being in there with him.

01:32:20.000 But this is just boxing.

01:32:21.000 This is what they call dirty boxing. 1.00

01:32:23.000 Boom.

01:32:24.000 So you could ground and pound guys.

01:32:26.000 So is this like the modern day DC?

01:32:28.000 Sort of?

01:32:29.000 Oh, he's maybe even better and bigger, a lot bigger.

01:32:32.000 But you see how he jumped over that rope?

01:32:34.000 Watch that again.

01:32:34.000 Super athletic, but like doesn't kind of unassuming.

01:32:37.000 Exactly.

01:32:38.000 Well, I mean, not really unassuming.

01:32:40.000 He's a fucking house, man.

01:32:41.000 He just doesn't have higher body fat.

01:32:44.000 But look how he jumped over that rope.

01:32:45.000 Oh, yeah, when you see that, of course.

01:32:47.000 Did you show that again?

01:32:48.000 Yeah, that was insane.

01:32:49.000 Well, look how the effortless, look at, just effortless.

01:32:52.000 leaps over that fucking, that's like five feet. 0.94

01:32:55.000 He just jumps over it like it's nothing.

01:32:57.000 And after fighting.

01:32:58.000 After fighting, but literally with no effort.

01:33:02.000 Just hops over it like it didn't exist, lands perfectly.

01:33:05.000 He's a freak, man.

01:33:07.000 And he's training with John Jones.

01:33:08.000 And, you know, he's training with like some of the best fighters.

01:33:11.000 And he's trying to fight every month.

01:33:11.000 And he's training.

01:33:13.000 He's trying to get as much experience as he can before he gets into the UFC.

01:33:18.000 And he's coming.

01:33:19.000 And everybody's in trouble.

01:33:20.000 How old is he?

01:33:21.000 25.

01:33:21.000 Oh, geez.

01:33:22.000 They're all fucked.

01:33:23.000 Everyone's fucked.

01:33:24.000 I mean, everyone is fucked because there's no, other than John, there's no one that can wrestle with that guy in that sport.

01:33:33.000 And the thing about a guy who could wrestle like that is if he could strike like that, the problem with wrestling is you're always worried about the takedown.

01:33:40.000 So that opens you up to strikes because you're always like every feint, you're thinking he's going to shoot for your legs, but then boom, he catches you with a left hook.

01:33:47.000 And the speed that guy has, it's like a lethal combination of athleticism, speed, power, size, and an insane wrestling pedigree.

01:33:57.000 I mean, Olympic gold medalist, as good as he gets with wrestling.

01:34:01.000 I think the last time I heard you talk about a guy like this, at least when I was on, was Pereira before he came in.

01:34:07.000 Similar kind of thing, where he's a specialist.

01:34:07.000 Similar.

01:34:11.000 You're like, watch out for this fucking guy.

01:34:13.000 Oh, yeah.

01:34:13.000 Yeah.

01:34:14.000 I remember DC was like, come on, man.

01:34:16.000 I'm like, dude, I'm telling you, this guy is different.

01:34:20.000 Because I had been a huge fan of Pereira when he was fighting in glory.

01:34:23.000 And, you know, you'd watch him hit guys and they'd go flying across the ring.

01:34:26.000 Yeah.

01:34:27.000 Like, what the fuck is that guy made out of?

01:34:29.000 And when you, like, when I interview him, like, I put my hand on him, it's like this table, dude.

01:34:34.000 He's like made out of oak.

01:34:35.000 Like, he's fucking dense.

01:34:37.000 And there's something about the way he throws punches.

01:34:37.000 Yeah.

01:34:41.000 Have you ever seen him punch that machine?

01:34:43.000 You know, that machine that like generates like it shows you.

01:34:45.000 It's a little bit less, but it's like super high power.

01:34:48.000 He hit it with his right hand because his left hand had been bothering him and he got 190.

01:34:53.000 100 and the previous, like Francis Nganu got a 129, he got a 190 with a right hand.

01:35:00.000 It's fucking insane, dude.

01:35:01.000 I got like 150 with a kick.

01:35:04.000 This guy got 190 with a punch.

01:35:06.000 Jesus.

01:35:07.000 190 is insane.

01:35:09.000 And it's his right hand.

01:35:10.000 I bet his left hand is probably 200.

01:35:12.000 It's fucking.

01:35:13.000 See if you can find that video.

01:35:14.000 It got deleted from the way I was looking at it.

01:35:16.000 It got deleted.

01:35:18.000 The way it was being advertised when you Google it.

01:35:21.000 People like hide it.

01:35:23.000 Somewhere else.

01:35:23.000 Bro, he hit so hard that Mark Goddard, after he fought Khalil Roundtree, after he just beat Khalil Roundtree across the octagon.

01:35:32.000 Mark Goddard, when they were announcing the KO and raising his hand, Mark comes up to me at the end of the fight.

01:35:37.000 He goes, The sound, the sound it makes when that guy hits people is ungodly.

01:35:44.000 He goes, I've been doing this for 20 years, mate.

01:35:47.000 He goes, it's ungodly.

01:35:48.000 Watch this.

01:35:50.000 170.

01:35:53.000 Oh, my God.

01:35:58.000 Bro, bro, bro, bro.

01:36:01.000 Yellow.

01:36:02.000 Play that again.

01:36:04.000 Play that.

01:36:05.000 Just look at the force that this guy generates.

01:36:07.000 There's something about there's it's the leverage because of his tech.

01:36:12.000 That's us watching it.

01:36:15.000 170.

01:36:18.000 Oh, my God.

01:36:21.000 That's nuts.

01:36:22.000 Yeah.

01:36:22.000 That's nuts.

01:36:23.000 He's got power, it's a weird thing, man.

01:36:27.000 You're born with it.

01:36:28.000 Like nothing else.

01:36:30.000 Like, there's a lot of skills that you can acquire, but there's a threshold to how hard you're going to be able to hit.

01:36:36.000 And I think it's based on body mechanics.

01:36:38.000 It's based on the frame.

01:36:40.000 It's based on the size of your hand.

01:36:42.000 He has massive hands.

01:36:43.000 It's based on there's just a lot of factors, explosive, fast twitch muscle fiber.

01:36:49.000 Some people don't have a lot of it.

01:36:50.000 Some people are more of an endurance fighter and they don't hit as hard, but they can just get you with combinations and they put you away eventually.

01:36:57.000 But Pereira is different, man.

01:36:59.000 It's like in like he's like David Goggins always likes to say, he's uncommon amongst uncommon men.

01:37:07.000 Yeah.

01:37:08.000 It's interesting that his chin seems to be holding up really well.

01:37:12.000 Yeah, and he has been knocked out before he's getting older and like he seems fine.

01:37:17.000 Well, it's because he was not cutting weight anymore.

01:37:20.000 There's nothing that fucks your chin up more than dehydration.

01:37:23.000 When he was losing weight, he was getting down to 185 pounds and he was weighing in the day of the fight at 226.

01:37:31.000 226, weighing in at 185, you cut weight and then rehydrating up to 226 a day later.

01:37:38.000 Damn.

01:37:39.000 Like you don't rehydrate your brain, man.

01:37:41.000 And so you can't take shots.

01:37:42.000 You can't take shots as well.

01:37:43.000 And it's a common thread amongst fighters.

01:37:46.000 Like Jack Hermanson, he got knocked out by Gregory Rodriguez at 185, and Gregory Rodriguez is another one.

01:37:53.000 He's a freak, just a giant 185.

01:37:56.000 Like, it doesn't even make sense.

01:37:57.000 You're standing next to him.

01:37:58.000 I weigh 200 pounds and I stand next to him.

01:37:59.000 I'm a little short me.

01:38:01.000 And I'm like, how?

01:38:02.000 How the fuck are you 15 pounds lighter than me?

01:38:05.000 That's not even.

01:38:06.000 This is science.

01:38:07.000 Like, it doesn't even make sense.

01:38:09.000 And so Jack went down to 170 and just got KO'd the other day.

01:38:13.000 Bad.

01:38:14.000 Just bad.

01:38:16.000 Because I think that you're way more vulnerable.

01:38:20.000 Like, Frankie Edgar is a perfect example because Frankie, when he was in his prime at 155, didn't cut any weight.

01:38:26.000 He was one of the rare guys that was a 155-pound champion that was actually 155 pounds when he fought.

01:38:34.000 And just amazing durability because of that.

01:38:37.000 Because he didn't dehydrate himself.

01:38:39.000 So he was like optimal.

01:38:41.000 And there's like this point of diminishing returns.

01:38:45.000 Where you're physically bigger, you're stronger, but you can't take shots.

01:38:49.000 And you also fatigue quicker because your body essentially almost died 24 hours ago.

01:38:55.000 I mean, these guys get to death's door to make weight.

01:38:58.000 Their whole face is sucked in.

01:39:00.000 Their eyeballs are pulled back in their head.

01:39:02.000 It's kind of crazy.

01:39:03.000 Yeah, I think more attention is going to come to how to actually ensure your brain stays safe in the sports for longevity purposes as people kind of realize how impactful the weight cutting especially can be, but also if you end up getting knocked out, you might not come back the same.

01:39:20.000 And some of the strategies that should be employed after those fights as well to actually restore as quickly as possible and avoid permanent degradation.

01:39:28.000 Well, it's like there's two schools of thought.

01:39:30.000 There's one school of thought that I'm in, which we need to expand the weight classes so we have more weight classes and we need to somehow or another institute some sort of hydration policy where you cannot dehydrate yourself and weigh in and pretend that you weigh 170 when really you weigh 210 because there's a lot of guys doing that.

01:39:51.000 And the other school of thought is they should be able to hydrate with IVs.

01:39:56.000 Because they used to be able to hydrate with IVs.

01:39:58.000 The blood-brain barrier and the hydration of the brain, it takes much longer to rehydrate your brain than it does to rehydrate your muscle tissue.

01:40:07.000 And so these guys are going in there, their muscles are full, but their brain is dehydrated and they're vulnerable to getting knocked out.

01:40:14.000 And I think that's what happened with Pereira, particularly with the Izzy fight.

01:40:18.000 But Izzy caught him with a picture-perfect right hand, just right on the chin, and then followed it up with a left hook. 1.00

01:40:24.000 But it was just he didn't have the durability at 185 that he has at 205.

01:40:29.000 At 205, he's been dropped.

01:40:31.000 Like Khalil dropped him.

01:40:32.000 Guys have dropped him.

01:40:33.000 And, you know, Ankhalia rocked him, but he can take it.

01:40:37.000 He could take it at 205.

01:40:38.000 Yeah.

01:40:39.000 And now he's talking about going all the way up to heavyweight, which is kind of crazy.

01:40:43.000 Yeah, I mean, like, all the power to him if he does.

01:40:45.000 Fuck.

01:40:46.000 Who doesn't want to see it?

01:40:47.000 Oh, yeah.

01:40:48.000 I mean, I would love to see him fight John Jones at the White House.

01:40:51.000 And what's your ideal White House card look like?

01:40:54.000 John Jones versus Pereira, for sure.

01:40:57.000 Conor McGregor versus Michael Chandler.

01:41:00.000 That would be awesome.

01:41:01.000 You know, you want to have some fun.

01:41:03.000 Like, that's a fun fight.

01:41:05.000 You know, and then you would probably want like Islam Makachev versus Ilya Tuporia.

01:41:11.000 That would be insane.

01:41:12.000 You know, maybe even at 155.

01:41:14.000 I don't know if Islam even wants to make 155 anymore, but Ilya said he would fight him at 170, which is crazy because Ilya is smaller than me.

01:41:22.000 That's walk around with it.

01:41:24.000 I don't know.

01:41:25.000 I don't know, but that's another guy that has the touch of death.

01:41:27.000 There's guys that just have freaky power.

01:41:30.000 Hopefully he doesn't let his personal shit derail whatever is happening.

01:41:34.000 Oh, I know.

01:41:35.000 Like, you're in your late 20s, and it's like not the time, bro.

01:41:35.000 I know.

01:41:39.000 I know.

01:41:39.000 It's crazy.

01:41:40.000 I don't know what happened.

01:41:41.000 Dude, I don't know where with the wife. 1.00

01:41:43.000 I don't know if it's a coincidence, but I mean, you can't.

01:41:46.000 I'm sure the internet has their speculation, but the timing is very odd with like one of these interviews he did where somebody was almost seemed to plant in his head that like if you meet a wife in Miami, that she's probably like not a, you know, good, you know.

01:42:06.000 Is that where he met her?

01:42:07.000 I think so, yeah.

01:42:08.000 But he lives in Spain.

01:42:09.000 Somebody, I forget who it was, but somebody like jokingly said, Oh, you met, like, it looks like you can meet quality women in Miami crazy. 0.80

01:42:16.000 Like, you would have never thought.

01:42:17.000 And then he was like visibly shook.

01:42:20.000 He was like, What do you mean by that?

01:42:22.000 Oh, no.

01:42:23.000 And the guy was like, Did I just offend you and you're going to fuck me up?

01:42:26.000 Or like, what is happening right now?

01:42:28.000 And he was just seemed to like almost internalize that, is there a reason I shouldn't trust Miami women and I haven't considered it?

01:42:35.000 And then it's just like, you can't help but think with the timing, the fucking wheels are turning.

01:42:39.000 Oh, God.

01:42:39.000 I didn't know that he met her in Miami.

01:42:41.000 I don't know if that's even true because he lives or if it even is like relevant at all, but it's just weird timing.

01:42:47.000 I would imagine it's relevant meeting a woman in Miami.

01:42:50.000 Like, I mean, the factors certainly support that it's like a more likely chance that she's not the person she represented herself as potentially.

01:42:57.000 Well, not just that.

01:42:58.000 It's the culture of Miami.

01:43:00.000 I always say that if you want to starve to death, open up a bookstore in Miami.

01:43:04.000 It's like people are just partiers.

01:43:06.000 It's like, you should have a passport to go to Miami.

01:43:09.000 It's barely America.

01:43:10.000 It's fun.

01:43:11.000 It's a great city.

01:43:12.000 A lot of fun.

01:43:13.000 But it doesn't really lend itself to the kind of sturdy, stay-at-home mom support for a world champion because the discipline involved in being not just a world champion, but a world champion on Ilya's level, you know, like a two-division dominator goes up, knocks out Charles Olivera like it's nothing, which is crazy.

01:43:34.000 Not only that, had a celebration the night before the fire celebrating victory.

01:43:40.000 That was almost like Gordon Ryan shit, like times two.

01:43:43.000 Times two.

01:43:44.000 And even apologize to Charles.

01:43:46.000 I'm sorry, it has to be you.

01:43:48.000 You know, I love you.

01:43:49.000 You're a great guy.

01:43:49.000 Sorry, it has to be you.

01:43:51.000 Like, super respectful of Charles.

01:43:52.000 He's a legend.

01:43:54.000 You know, and then flatlines him in the first round, like he said he was going to.

01:43:57.000 He's like, trust me, I'm going to knock him out in the first round.

01:44:00.000 One punch, boom. 0.99

01:44:02.000 Touch of death.

01:44:03.000 It's like he's, there's guys that have, and for him, it's like not a big guy, right?

01:44:08.000 Like, not extremely muscular.

01:44:10.000 Like, there's nothing, he's not massive, but it's mechanics.

01:44:14.000 His mechanics are fucking perfect.

01:44:16.000 His timing is fucking perfect.

01:44:18.000 Belief in himself, technique, everything.

01:44:21.000 It's like all the above.

01:44:22.000 But it's like, there's guys that you can't let hit you.

01:44:27.000 And Ilya is one of them.

01:44:28.000 And I think that probably carries all the way up to 170.

01:44:31.000 I just don't, I mean, the difference between so 170, look at him and then look at some of the big 170s, like Jack De La Mattelena.

01:44:40.000 He's a fucking big guy.

01:44:42.000 Like there's like big, like Michael Venom Page.

01:44:45.000 He's fucking huge.

01:44:46.000 That would be a nightmare matchup for Ilya if he really did decide to go to 170, a guy like Venom.

01:44:52.000 Because you can't hit that guy.

01:44:54.000 Like, if you can't hit that guy and he can hit you, and he's a point-fighting champion.

01:44:58.000 So that is the absolute best style of the blitz of like being able to close distance quickly.

01:45:04.000 Nobody does that like that.

01:45:05.000 MVP.

01:45:06.000 He's the best at it.

01:45:08.000 The best at it, maybe of all time.

01:45:09.000 Yeah, I wonder if it'd be kind of like when Canelo tried to go up and then it was kind of like Bival.

01:45:14.000 Yeah.

01:45:15.000 Yeah.

01:45:15.000 I could see that sort of being the outcome where it's not his ass.

01:45:20.000 Yeah, could be.

01:45:20.000 But Canelo, it's like later in his career, you know.

01:45:24.000 But it's like, there's, it'll be a giant.

01:45:26.000 But also, you have like the disadvantage of it's actually MMA versus just boxing.

01:45:30.000 But like, yeah, the guy is one of the most exciting guys to watch.

01:45:34.000 Has is a great representative too.

01:45:37.000 When he was on your show, dude.

01:45:38.000 Oh, he's amazing.

01:45:39.000 Oh, my God, dude.

01:45:40.000 Could you have said more right things?

01:45:42.000 Yeah, I know.

01:45:43.000 He's great.

01:45:43.000 And then that just is unfortunate for any misalignment of your personal life at this time of your career.

01:45:49.000 Somebody's got to get him a bad woman. 1.00

01:45:52.000 Just fucking get it.

01:45:54.000 His boys in his corner just like get his mind, you know, dialed.

01:45:57.000 He has children with this lady, too.

01:45:59.000 So it's like, oh, God.

01:46:01.000 Yeah.

01:46:02.000 I mean, you know, that's what it is, regardless of what he's saying, you know, when he's like, I got to get my personal life in order and the timing of everything.

01:46:09.000 And I think there's actually, is it publicly media about the, there's like a divorce now or something?

01:46:14.000 Oh, yeah.

01:46:14.000 Yeah.

01:46:15.000 It's public.

01:46:15.000 Yeah.

01:46:16.000 Jesus Christ.

01:46:16.000 Well, she's taking photos with rappers and shit.

01:46:18.000 Ugh.

01:46:19.000 Yeah, putting it on Instagram.

01:46:20.000 No.

01:46:21.000 Yeah.

01:46:21.000 You know how they do it?

01:46:22.000 They try to steal your soul.

01:46:24.000 Put a fucking knife right in your spirit.

01:46:27.000 Dude, that's crazy.

01:46:29.000 Yeah, man.

01:46:29.000 There's hell has no fury, like a woman scorned.

01:46:33.000 Well, hopefully that helps him think he made the right call then, I guess.

01:46:38.000 Yes, but does that help?

01:46:39.000 This is the mother of your children, and this lady is a monster. 1.00

01:46:42.000 There's nothing worse than feeling like psychologically duped by somebody, too.

01:46:47.000 Well, I don't know if it is psychologically duped or if it's like once she's not on your side, you know, then it's just burn the house down. 0.54

01:46:54.000 Yeah.

01:46:55.000 You know, and there's a lot of ladies like that because they feel like you hooked up with a guy who's an incredibly special human being. 1.00

01:47:03.000 The rarest of rare.

01:47:05.000 Not just a UFC world champion, but a two-division world champion, superstar who the whole world wants to see, and you're his wife.

01:47:12.000 So you like, oh, look at me.

01:47:14.000 I'm married to the baddest motherfucker alive. 1.00

01:47:17.000 And then he doesn't want to be with you anymore.

01:47:19.000 Like, oh, really?

01:47:20.000 Well, I'm going to fucking take you down. 0.94

01:47:22.000 And women, that's what they love is reputation destruction. 1.00

01:47:26.000 That's what they're really, that's what they really are experts in when shit goes sideways.

01:47:31.000 What's the typical outcome of these cases where it's like super famous person, wife claims that she is 50% responsible for their success, tries to take half?

01:47:41.000 Is that like, if there's no prenup, that's kind of just what happens?

01:47:45.000 Depends on where they are, right?

01:47:46.000 So I don't know where they got married, you know, where they're getting divorced.

01:47:49.000 I was like, is it in Spain?

01:47:50.000 What kind of laws does this? 0.90

01:47:51.000 He seems like a super traditional guy who like probably didn't even get the right shit set up.

01:47:57.000 God, I hope not.

01:47:58.000 He seems really like innocent and, you know, it looks like a perfect marriage.

01:48:02.000 Yeah.

01:48:02.000 That's what's crazy.

01:48:03.000 But this is the ugliness of social media, right?

01:48:06.000 Yeah.

01:48:06.000 Is that everybody wants to put out this pretend image of perfection, that everything's perfect.

01:48:14.000 And so you have photos of you holding hands and walking together and kissing.

01:48:19.000 I love you more than anything in life.

01:48:20.000 And you post it out there for the world and you're putting on a show for the world.

01:48:24.000 But meanwhile, there's like all sorts of internal bullshit that's going on.

01:48:28.000 You're trying to work through and you're hoping it works out.

01:48:32.000 And then when it falls apart, you're like, fuck.

01:48:34.000 And then you got to go back on your Instagram and delete all those pictures.

01:48:37.000 Isn't it better to just like not talk about any of it publicly and just like keep your relationship shit like private?

01:48:43.000 I think most of your life you should keep it.

01:48:45.000 I think social media in general, and not just for famous people, just in general, is way worse for people that it is good, especially Instagram.

01:48:55.000 Yeah.

01:48:56.000 I think many a person has ruined their life on Twitter.

01:49:00.000 Many a person has said things on Twitter that's tanked their career, ruined their life.

01:49:03.000 You know, it's just the motivation to get attention for your words and your images is very toxic.

01:49:12.000 It's very dangerous.

01:49:13.000 And you're playing with explosives.

01:49:15.000 It's just not smart.

01:49:16.000 It's just not a good thing to engage in.

01:49:19.000 I am much happier when I rarely am on social media.

01:49:23.000 And so I like dip my toes in, see what everybody's mad about, and then I get the fuck out and move on with my day.

01:49:29.000 And I never try to portray myself in any way other than who I actually am.

01:49:34.000 I don't, I'm not interested in like some fucking, you know, some video montage with fucking music and inspirational quotes.

01:49:46.000 If somebody else makes that, that's fine.

01:49:48.000 I'm not involved.

01:49:49.000 But I'm not putting anything like that up and checking the likes.

01:49:52.000 Get the fuck out of here.

01:49:54.000 That's bad for you.

01:49:55.000 I think it's bad for you.

01:49:56.000 The good and the bad.

01:49:58.000 The negatives, the people hating on you is bad for you.

01:50:00.000 Like, oh, that's not me at all.

01:50:02.000 Hey, why are you saying that?

01:50:04.000 And then the good's not good for you either.

01:50:06.000 Because then you start believing your own bullshit and think your shit doesn't smell.

01:50:09.000 It's crazy.

01:50:10.000 It's bad for you.

01:50:11.000 It's just, it's the opposite of mindfulness.

01:50:14.000 It's the opposite of being in the moment.

01:50:16.000 It's the opposite of that.

01:50:17.000 Because you're like living for other people's attention that you don't even know.

01:50:21.000 You don't even know these people.

01:50:23.000 And you're allowing them to comment on like your wife and your family.

01:50:28.000 You're holding her hand and you're renewing vows.

01:50:31.000 You're on your knee presenting her a ring in a video.

01:50:34.000 What the fuck are you doing?

01:50:36.000 Like, why would you do that?

01:50:37.000 That's a private thing.

01:50:39.000 If it's real love, it should be the two of you.

01:50:43.000 And if it's like, if you're really working, work hard in silence.

01:50:46.000 What is this?

01:50:46.000 What are you doing?

01:50:47.000 Like, what is all this about?

01:50:48.000 But it's just for likes.

01:50:49.000 Everybody is addicted to these likes.

01:50:52.000 I want to see the numbers.

01:50:53.000 Only 6,000 likes?

01:50:55.000 This is crazy.

01:50:56.000 I bared my soul for you.

01:50:58.000 I just think it's really bad for people.

01:51:01.000 And also, it's like most people don't know what fame really is.

01:51:06.000 They think they do.

01:51:08.000 And then they get it.

01:51:08.000 And then they think they can manage it.

01:51:10.000 And then the fucking psychology behind it and the spinning that goes on in your mind when you're trying to go to bed and you're worried about all the mean things people are saying about you.

01:51:20.000 It's like, it's just bad.

01:51:23.000 It's just not good.

01:51:24.000 What's the strategy now for you?

01:51:25.000 You have a burner phone or like, how do you do just like divorce yourself from I just don't read it.

01:51:31.000 I don't read anything.

01:51:33.000 And I don't.

01:51:34.000 You did a burner phone for a while.

01:51:36.000 I, well, or is it just fucking annoying?

01:51:36.000 Yeah.

01:51:38.000 Ultimately, I do have a burner phone.

01:51:40.000 Well, I don't have a burner phone.

01:51:41.000 I have a phone that I give to people that are just annoying or that I don't really want to.

01:51:45.000 Like I leave it at home.

01:51:46.000 I never check it.

01:51:47.000 So there's certain like business stuff and I don't want business stuff to be entering into my life all the time.

01:51:52.000 So I want to, I have like regimented times where I check things and respond to people.

01:51:57.000 But I think my next phone number, which I'm changing soon, is going to be no social media at all.

01:52:02.000 And then my other phone number, I'm just going to do that with it.

01:52:05.000 I'm just going to do my social media posts, all the stuff that I have to do.

01:52:09.000 Like, hey, I got a show coming up.

01:52:10.000 Or hey, this guy was great.

01:52:11.000 It's a podcast happening.

01:52:13.000 Posting ghost is what I do.

01:52:14.000 Post, then get out of there.

01:52:16.000 But I'm not going to have any social media on my new phone.

01:52:18.000 I just generally think it's bad for you.

01:52:21.000 And it gets in the way of, it's an abuse of precious resources.

01:52:26.000 That's what I think.

01:52:27.000 So do you have podcasts and stuff on it?

01:52:31.000 Or like, how do you, do you entertain yourself with actual social media?

01:52:34.000 Or like, how do you do that?

01:52:35.000 No, I'll entertain myself with YouTube.

01:52:37.000 It's hard to not like have the shit infiltrate when you have like a taste of it.

01:52:42.000 It's like before you know it, you're sitting on the toilet looking at social media or something.

01:52:45.000 Yeah, that's another nice thing that I like to do is not look at my phone when I'm on the toilet.

01:52:50.000 Just go to the toilet and just leave it there.

01:52:52.000 I've been leaving my phone on Do Not Disturb too, which is also a nice thing.

01:52:55.000 I like doing that.

01:52:56.000 Put it on Do Not Disturb and check it occasionally.

01:52:59.000 Every now and then check it.

01:53:01.000 And you know, you could set up Do Not Disturb where certain people can get through.

01:53:04.000 Like my wife can get through, my kids can get through, best friends can get through.

01:53:07.000 But it's just like, I think that for the most part, what you're doing is you're using very valuable resources on things that aren't valuable at all.

01:53:18.000 Yeah, it's part of the reason I work best late at night as much as I would love to have the perfect circadian rhythm and go to bed at the perfect time and align it with the sun going down.

01:53:28.000 It's like the only time my phone and all this stuff is not blowing up is in the middle of the night and I can just focus and not have to think about stuff blasting me.

01:53:37.000 Me too.

01:53:37.000 Yeah.

01:53:38.000 My best writing is always late at night when everyone's asleep.

01:53:41.000 Yeah.

01:53:41.000 And that's also it's like there's something about late at night where the world seems a little bit more crazy.

01:53:48.000 That I think my mind is like a little more tuned to danger and chaos and just like it seems like more heightened because it's dark out.

01:53:55.000 You know, it's dark out and everyone's asleep.

01:53:57.000 I'm like, what is the world really made out of?

01:54:00.000 Like, that's where I do my best thinking.

01:54:02.000 It's funny because when I look out, I just see like calm.

01:54:04.000 There's no traffic.

01:54:05.000 Yeah.

01:54:05.000 And I'm just like, this is nice.

01:54:07.000 That too, but night is when I worry about war.

01:54:12.000 That's when I worry about it.

01:54:14.000 I know.

01:54:15.000 Sometimes I let it get in my head.

01:54:18.000 That's when I get my most anxiety about the future of the world.

01:54:21.000 It's at night.

01:54:22.000 There's something about that.

01:54:24.000 Do you still smoke weed a fair bit?

01:54:27.000 Allegedly.

01:54:28.000 Yeah.

01:54:29.000 It's great for writing.

01:54:29.000 How's that?

01:54:30.000 Oh, that's not good for paranoia.

01:54:34.000 Yeah.

01:54:34.000 Well, it makes you hypersensitive to danger.

01:54:38.000 Yeah.

01:54:38.000 It's too.

01:54:39.000 Yeah.

01:54:40.000 But it's really great for creativity.

01:54:42.000 For creativity, there's nothing like it.

01:54:43.000 And for comedy, it's a steroid.

01:54:45.000 It's like the best, like, it is the best performance-enhancing drug ever created for writing comedy.

01:54:50.000 Oh, really?

01:54:51.000 Yeah, there's nothing like it.

01:54:52.000 Like, especially edibles.

01:54:53.000 Like, you have thoughts that, like, you're like, okay, I don't even know if I would ever have that thought without weed.

01:54:59.000 Like, that thought is, weed wrote that joke.

01:55:01.000 I barely had anything to do with that.

01:55:04.000 What's the ideal edible dose?

01:55:06.000 Depends on your tolerance.

01:55:07.000 Talk to me.

01:55:07.000 Zero tolerance.

01:55:09.000 Oh, 10.

01:55:10.000 10 milligrams might fuck you up, though.

01:55:11.000 Maybe five.

01:55:12.000 Maybe five is good.

01:55:13.000 You know, that's like in the places where it's legal.

01:55:16.000 Like, if you go to New York or LA, I think L.A. has a 10 milligram threshold.

01:55:21.000 I think you can only get 10.

01:55:22.000 That's the highest you can get.

01:55:24.000 10's a lot for someone who doesn't do it.

01:55:27.000 But, you know, Joey Diaz will pop like a 250.

01:55:32.000 He'll pop 250s.

01:55:33.000 He's a fucking freak, though.

01:55:35.000 Like, his tolerance is like nothing I've ever seen in my life.

01:55:38.000 He used to dose people.

01:55:40.000 He would take like a 25-milligram edible and he'd take the wrapper off and put a 250 milligram edible in and give it to his co-host.

01:55:47.000 Oh, my God, dude.

01:55:50.000 It's like, I think it's funny, but like, I'm not even.

01:55:54.000 It's only funny because it's Joey.

01:55:56.000 If it was anybody that he didn't love, you'd be like, what the fuck is wrong with you?

01:55:59.000 But when Joey does it, he's just like, oh, my God.

01:56:01.000 So you just think you're dying unraveled.

01:56:03.000 Well, you just laugh.

01:56:04.000 And he's over there laughing.

01:56:04.000 You just know.

01:56:07.000 And you're just sitting there spiraling.

01:56:09.000 Yeah, you fucked you up.

01:56:10.000 Yeah.

01:56:11.000 He just always says, I want to see the devil.

01:56:13.000 He goes, fuck this mic with those things.

01:56:14.000 I want to see the devil.

01:56:16.000 He likes seeing the, he likes getting freaked out.

01:56:18.000 He likes it.

01:56:20.000 But I mean, for creativity, I think it has a place.

01:56:22.000 That's the comedian juice right there.

01:56:24.000 Yeah, I think, you know, not for everybody.

01:56:27.000 Some people don't like it at all.

01:56:28.000 You know, I know some really great comics that are Stone Cold Sober.

01:56:32.000 And for them, it's just, they just like to sit and think.

01:56:36.000 But a lot of the best ones that I know, they have switched over to either a flip phone or a phone with nothing on it.

01:56:44.000 No social media at all.

01:56:46.000 I think eventually you realize like that time you're spending just scrolling mindlessly through things.

01:56:54.000 It's such precious resources.

01:56:56.000 You only have so much time in a day and you're spending time just looking at nonsense.

01:57:02.000 But also the other side of it is you do want to have your finger on the pulse of society.

01:57:07.000 You want to kind of know what's going on in the world.

01:57:09.000 Yeah, if you're a comedian, how do you even like talk about pop culture and stuff that's trending or whatever?

01:57:14.000 Well, interestingly enough, I get sent enough things.

01:57:18.000 Oh, it's like consolidated for you?

01:57:20.000 Yeah.

01:57:21.000 I get sent enough things by my friends that are fucked up that I don't have to go looking.

01:57:26.000 So I go, Jesus, is that real?

01:57:28.000 And then I'll maybe, you know, do a search and find out that it is real and then read about it.

01:57:32.000 And like, oh, what?

01:57:33.000 But that I think is probably valuable because it's keeping you informed.

01:57:37.000 It's the endless, mindless scrolling that I think is the most detrimental and the one that robs you of the most time because, you know, you could be sitting down at the kitchen table and all of a sudden you have this plan for the day.

01:57:49.000 You're going to get going.

01:57:50.000 You're drinking a cup of coffee.

01:57:51.000 And then you know, 45 minutes is gone.

01:57:53.000 Yeah.

01:57:53.000 45, you get a brutal fucking workout in 45 minutes, but you didn't do anything.

01:57:57.000 There's nothing more guilty feeling than having wasted like your six to eight really sharp mental hours, any part of that on something that dumb.

01:58:06.000 I feel so bad when I do it.

01:58:07.000 Yeah, when I have done it in the past, I just feel it's like, how did I do it again?

01:58:11.000 You know, yep, how did I let it get in here?

01:58:13.000 Yeah, it's like you feel like an idiot or like a droggie or something. 1.00

01:58:17.000 It's like, you are.

01:58:18.000 You're a low-level druggie.

01:58:20.000 You know, it's a low drug.

01:58:21.000 It's not even a good one.

01:58:22.000 It's not even like, I feel great.

01:58:24.000 This is amazing.

01:58:25.000 Like, it doesn't even do that to you.

01:58:27.000 Sean, Sugar Sean O'Malley had a great quote.

01:58:31.000 He said, even when I'm just regular scrolling, even though it has nothing to do with me, he goes, I get a low-level anxiety.

01:58:37.000 And I'm like, yeah, me too.

01:58:39.000 Like, it's weird.

01:58:40.000 And I think that low-level anxiety is like a little bit of, you know, you're wasting your time.

01:58:44.000 You know, for sure.

01:58:46.000 When he fought Marab the second time, he got totally off social media for like months and months.

01:58:50.000 Oh, probably the best strategy.

01:58:52.000 Yeah, it still didn't help.

01:58:54.000 Yeah.

01:58:55.000 I mean, at least he put in, like, did what he thought would work, though.

01:59:00.000 Did his best.

01:59:01.000 There's a lot of people that will succumb to the pressure at the max level and check the, you know, what people are saying about them, who's going to win.

01:59:08.000 That's the worst.

01:59:09.000 Watching your training, footage you posted.

01:59:12.000 Seeing that people like this.

01:59:15.000 Yeah.

01:59:16.000 I mean, some people thrive on it.

01:59:18.000 They like haters.

01:59:19.000 Bodybuilding is the worst for it, too.

01:59:21.000 I'm sure it's just as bad in MMA, but it's like your entire physique is like your social media brand.

01:59:28.000 So it's like you post your physique and then the feedback you get, you kind of have to look at, I guess, because it's like what you compete with, too.

01:59:36.000 So you're literally taking judge feedback that's subjective and taking what they're telling you is wrong with your body to fix.

01:59:44.000 And then you're just bombarded by people in the comment section that are like, you lost because of this.

01:59:48.000 You're lazy.

01:59:49.000 How did you not get in shape?

01:59:51.000 And it's like, even down to the lighting on stage can make you look much worse than you actually are.

01:59:56.000 Like, you showed up with soggy glutes, bitch. 1.00

01:59:58.000 And it's like, I'm fucking shredded.

02:00:01.000 Like, what are you talking about?

02:00:02.000 Soggy glutes is hilarious.

02:00:04.000 And it's like back in the 90s, I don't know what it was, but it was like some of the lighting too was almost so bad that it gave this granular, sharp, kind of like pixelated but like etchy look to the physiques.

02:00:04.000 Yeah.

02:00:18.000 And it would look like they were more cut and defined and just better downlighting overall.

02:00:22.000 And some of these shows, they're so washed out with the high resolution and like the perfect, and when I say perfect, it's like almost overexposed lighting to show what's going on on the stage that they look watery and fat, even when they're like, and I say watery and fat, like, you know, like the fucked up perception of the fitness industry.

02:00:41.000 It's like proportional to what you're expected to look like.

02:00:44.000 But it's like they could be shredded out of their mind and like having worked so hard to show up in shape and then just get like decimated online from some fucking keyboard warrior who's like, your back is like too watery, bro.

02:00:57.000 Go back to the fucking elliptical, you know?

02:01:01.000 Well, it's also like bodybuilding is the sport of ego, right?

02:01:06.000 Because it's only about what you look like.

02:01:08.000 Yeah, it's crazy.

02:01:09.000 That's the whole thing.

02:01:10.000 It's not about how fast you are.

02:01:12.000 Like, look, look, Gable.

02:01:13.000 I was like, he's not shredded.

02:01:15.000 Yeah.

02:01:15.000 You know, but he's the ultimate freak.

02:01:17.000 You know, look like BJ Penn in his prime.

02:01:17.000 Yeah.

02:01:19.000 Like, there's a lot of guys who are, they were never shredded.

02:01:23.000 They were always just smooth and fucked people up.

02:01:25.000 David Benavitez, another one, like elite world-class boxer, light heavyweight champion.

02:01:31.000 A little muffin top.

02:01:33.000 Did you see his last fight?

02:01:34.000 Benavitez fought Anthony Yard.

02:01:37.000 Okay.

02:01:38.000 I might.

02:01:38.000 Perfect contrast.

02:01:39.000 It just happened last weekend.

02:01:41.000 Oh, I missed that one.

02:01:42.000 Yard is fucking shredded.

02:01:42.000 Yeah.

02:01:46.000 He is an Adonis.

02:01:47.000 He is a Greek god.

02:01:49.000 He's literally like, you look at him.

02:01:51.000 There's no way if you saw the two of them, you would say that guy on the left that has no abs and is smooth is going to fucking destroy the guy on the right.

02:01:59.000 Nobody would believe it.

02:02:00.000 See if you can find the two of them together.

02:02:03.000 There's no way.

02:02:04.000 There's no way.

02:02:05.000 David Benavidez is one of the scariest guys alive because he's relentless.

02:02:11.000 He's so fucking skillful.

02:02:13.000 He's so fast.

02:02:14.000 It's brutal combinations.

02:02:16.000 But he's so unimpressive physically looking at him.

02:02:18.000 And Yard looks like you would expect in a movie.

02:02:22.000 Like the perfect scary opponent.

02:02:25.000 Like there's Benavitez.

02:02:27.000 I mean, he looks like an athlete, right?

02:02:27.000 Look at him.

02:02:29.000 Looks in shape.

02:02:30.000 But now, where do you see Yard?

02:02:33.000 He was first.

02:02:34.000 Look at Yard.

02:02:34.000 Sorry.

02:02:35.000 Oh, shit.

02:02:36.000 Shredded. 0.96

02:02:38.000 Yeah, like fitness.

02:02:39.000 Fucking shredded.

02:02:40.000 And brutal power, too, but it just couldn't fuck with Benavitez.

02:02:43.000 See, go way deep into the fight before he stops him.

02:02:49.000 Yeah, I mean, Benavitez was just putting it on him.

02:02:53.000 Just standing right in front.

02:02:54.000 And Yard, the thing about having that much musculature, there's just a reality of your, you know, the oxygen.

02:03:01.000 Yeah.

02:03:02.000 Just beat the shit out of him, man.

02:03:04.000 Yard's really good, man.

02:03:05.000 He's a really good boxer.

02:03:07.000 But Benavidez, like, look at the difference in the physiques, man.

02:03:10.000 His physique is perfect.

02:03:12.000 Yeah, I mean, it's almost like a limitation for some people where you're just like sapping up so much oxygen carrying capacity to supply the tissue.

02:03:20.000 But it's all, you know, it's also, there's a skill gap.

02:03:22.000 I mean, Benavidez is super fucking skillful.

02:03:25.000 And this is the guy that people say Canelo has been avoiding.

02:03:29.000 He kind of probably has.

02:03:31.000 Because Benavidez is the up-and-coming Mexican champion that everybody loves.

02:03:35.000 And Canelo is, you know, the king.

02:03:37.000 And everybody was like, this is the big fight at 168.

02:03:41.000 And so Benavidez had to go up to 175 to get big fights because Canelo wouldn't fight him at 168.

02:03:48.000 Huh.

02:03:48.000 Canelo is he just kind of like picking and choosing.

02:03:52.000 Look at this, bro.

02:03:53.000 Come on, man.

02:03:54.000 This fucking guy's good.

02:03:56.000 He's so good.

02:03:56.000 How old is he?

02:03:57.000 He's young, man.

02:03:59.000 I think Benavitez is, is he 28?

02:04:01.000 How old is Dave Benavitez?

02:04:04.000 He's young.

02:04:05.000 Okay.

02:04:06.000 Young and elite and going through his prime right now.

02:04:10.000 How old is he?

02:04:12.000 28, yeah.

02:04:13.000 Okay, in his prime.

02:04:15.000 You know, he's even more unassuming is like half the NHL players that play hockey.

02:04:19.000 Oh, really?

02:04:20.000 Like, have you ever seen somebody look more like a frat bro who does not play sports?

02:04:20.000 Oh, dude.

02:04:25.000 NHL players.

02:04:26.000 Well, those guys have crazy cardio.

02:04:29.000 Yeah.

02:04:29.000 That's crazy.

02:04:31.000 But you would never think.

02:04:32.000 Like, I used to bounce downtown Vancouver and we'd have the teams come by that would play the Canucks and they would come party at the champagne lounge and the club that I was bouncing at.

02:04:41.000 And he'd be like, this guy is like, you know, a professional athlete.

02:04:46.000 It'd be the whole team and half of them looked like, you know, some dude that's like, you'd do like a fucking keg stand with at like, you know, a party.

02:04:54.000 And that's like the max of his athletic capacity is being like held up to chug some beer or something.

02:04:58.000 Well, I bet those guys drink a lot.

02:05:00.000 Oh, yeah.

02:05:01.000 I bet out of all the athletes that drink, it's got to be hockey players at the top of the heap, right?

02:05:06.000 And they're fucking super athletic or good endurance.

02:05:06.000 Yeah.

02:05:10.000 You know, it's like just so unassuming physique-wise.

02:05:13.000 It's like.

02:05:13.000 It's all legs.

02:05:14.000 Yeah.

02:05:15.000 It's got to be all legs.

02:05:16.000 I bet they're shredded from the waist down.

02:05:17.000 Yeah, it's crazy seeing like the sport-specific translation in actual like physical like physiology that's conducive to your sport.

02:05:25.000 You see a sprinter and it's like, you know, he's a fucking 100-meter sprinter.

02:05:29.000 And then you see, you know, another guy and it's like you might not even think he plays sports.

02:05:32.000 You know, I thought that when I went to the professional soccer team here in town, Austin FC, these guys have these fucking quarter horse legs and then like real thin upper bodies.

02:05:46.000 Like they don't use their arms.

02:05:48.000 I mean, it's literally, unless you're a goalie, you don't have to use it.

02:05:50.000 It doesn't use it.

02:05:51.000 Yeah.

02:05:52.000 So they have like tiny little upper bodies, massive fucking legs, and insane cardio because they're constantly sprinting.

02:05:59.000 They sprint for 90 minutes.

02:06:00.000 I mean, they're just running around sprinting.

02:06:02.000 There's a couple outliers that do.

02:06:06.000 Look up Adam Traori, I think it is.

02:06:08.000 I might be totally betraying that.

02:06:10.000 Ronaldo's tray.

02:06:10.000 Well, Ronaldo.

02:06:11.000 Ronaldo's pretty jacked.

02:06:12.000 He's jacked.

02:06:12.000 He's yeah.

02:06:13.000 He's like the hyper-optimizer, too.

02:06:16.000 I mean, that guy won't.

02:06:16.000 He really is.

02:06:17.000 Remember, there was a thing where they tried to give him a Coca-Cola and he fucking took it aside.

02:06:21.000 He said, no, agua.

02:06:22.000 Yeah.

02:06:23.000 And Coca-Cola lost like a billion dollars in stock.

02:06:26.000 Whoa, look at that guy.

02:06:27.000 Yeah.

02:06:28.000 Yeah, that guy's a freak.

02:06:29.000 Yeah.

02:06:30.000 Well, there's always going to be freaks out there.

02:06:31.000 Yeah.

02:06:32.000 But it's crazy to see a guy like that excel so well, too, at a sport that you would think he'd kind of be like barely chugging along.

02:06:40.000 Well, it's probably just because he's been doing it his whole life, you know, and he has unbelievable genetics.

02:06:44.000 Yeah.

02:06:45.000 Genetics are a nutty thing, man.

02:06:46.000 You can't outrun genetics, but they don't always help.

02:06:50.000 Like, look at Yard.

02:06:51.000 Yard has perfect genetics, right?

02:06:52.000 Yeah.

02:06:53.000 And then Benavidez, you would look at him and you go, oh, that's not the best genetics.

02:06:57.000 Like, if he was a bodybuilder, you'd like, get the fuck out of here.

02:06:59.000 Yeah, it's crazy, too, because sometimes you might just have like nice-looking round muscle bellies, but you don't actually have like mitochondrial density to support athletic endeavors.

02:07:08.000 So you're kind of just like a show thing.

02:07:11.000 It's like a cosmetically pleasing athlete, but not actually able to translate it into anything.

02:07:16.000 Yeah, that's weird.

02:07:17.000 I've always thought that was weird.

02:07:18.000 I always thought that was weird and striking because there's a lot of guys that are just built like fucking brick shithouses.

02:07:24.000 And then you see them hit the bag and be like, it's just nuts.

02:07:27.000 Like you have zero power.

02:07:29.000 It's weird.

02:07:30.000 And it's like you would think objectively more muscle equals, but sometimes they're like weak as shit, even in lifts.

02:07:30.000 Yeah.

02:07:35.000 It's just like the development, the hypertrophy they get from it is just disproportionately better.

02:07:40.000 That's weird.

02:07:40.000 Can that be optimized though?

02:07:42.000 Like if they have like unbelievable looking physiques, is it just that they're not doing as much because they don't need to to look great?

02:07:50.000 I think there's definitely specific training for purposes that would be conducive to sport, that maybe some might be neglecting for sure, and ways to optimize for like, for example, you don't do hypertrophy work for bodybuilding because it's not conducive really, to what you're trying to get.

02:08:07.000 And I think some, some people, they want the best of both worlds and they want to like, look the part and also perform.

02:08:13.000 So they might be, you know, sapping bandwidth that could be allocated towards more optimal things that don't make them, you know, as cosmetically pleasing.

02:08:21.000 Yeah, there's definitely things you can do from a uh, support standpoint when it comes to, you know, nutrition supplementation etc.

02:08:29.000 But like you are ultimately going to be capped to some extent by genetic coding when it comes to like, density of certain receptors, and like you can upregulate it to whatever capacity you can, but like you can only push it so far before you've kind of, you know yeah, chapped out.

02:08:43.000 It's interesting because, like the really bulky guys, they just never have the same fluidity that the guys that are built like Benavitez have, where the the, the punches, flow in this effortless combination.

02:08:54.000 It's a perfect technique.

02:08:56.000 The really jack guys that look like they're, they're destroyers. 1.00

02:09:00.000 Flexibility is so much more limited too.

02:09:03.000 When you're like that, though.

02:09:04.000 Oh, yeah.

02:09:05.000 Unless you really work at it.

02:09:06.000 Yeah.

02:09:07.000 Really work on it.

02:09:08.000 Yeah.

02:09:08.000 And you have to have an intentful approach to making sure you can maintain the flexibility that might otherwise just be innate to somebody who doesn't have to deal with a giant deltoid that like right, right, right.

02:09:22.000 You know, Jocko, you know, Jocko.

02:09:24.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:09:24.000 You know, I've hunted with him before.

02:09:26.000 And Jocko, like a correct archery release.

02:09:30.000 Correct archery release is you're supposed to get a surprise shot.

02:09:33.000 So as the shot breaks, your arm kind of goes back like this.

02:09:37.000 Jocko is so jacked and he has such limited motion that his archery release is like this.

02:09:42.000 Like it doesn't, but he's doing it correctly.

02:09:45.000 But his, it doesn't move the same way.

02:09:48.000 It's all just Jocko smash.

02:09:50.000 You know, he's just, his body is designed to choke the shit out of you.

02:09:53.000 Like that's all it's for.

02:09:55.000 His body is designed to get a hold of you, take you to the ground, snap your fucking arm in half.

02:09:59.000 That's what it's for.

02:10:00.000 It's just force and strength.

02:10:02.000 And, you know, and it like, it's funny.

02:10:04.000 I'm just like, I'm like, does your arm not move that way?

02:10:06.000 He's like, no, it doesn't doesn't go back.

02:10:08.000 I'm like, that's funny.

02:10:09.000 Cause I'm watching him, watching his archery release.

02:10:12.000 It's perfect.

02:10:13.000 But there's, you know, you watch like a Levi Morgan, a world champion, pro archer.

02:10:18.000 Like, as the shot breaks, their arm just goes back like naturally, just like flows.

02:10:23.000 His just goes, it just moves a little bit.

02:10:25.000 When I was at my peak of bodybuilding size, I was in the middle of a job as a lifeguard and teaching swimming lessons to kids.

02:10:34.000 And part of the teaching swimming lessons would involve showing how to do the different strokes of, you know, back crawl, front crawl, breaststroke, all the different things.

02:10:42.000 And when you're like a 265-pound bodybuilder, it gets pretty difficult because not only do you just sink harder because you're, you know, mostly muscle, but also like just even trying to get a straight arm past your head, it's impossible.

02:10:55.000 So I actually had to stop teaching swimming.

02:11:00.000 Your ears, your fucking shoulders are slamming in.

02:11:02.000 Like it would look like you couldn't even do what you're trying to teach like a fucking six-year-old or something.

02:11:08.000 Very few guys work on mobility.

02:11:10.000 A great example of someone who does is Armand Sarukian.

02:11:13.000 Armand Sarukian, who just won to beat Dan Hooker two weeks ago or a week ago.

02:11:18.000 His mobility training is fucking super impressive.

02:11:22.000 Like he is jacked.

02:11:24.000 Have you seen Armand?

02:11:26.000 Yeah, he's pretty shredded.

02:11:27.000 He's a guy that doesn't pass the smell test.

02:11:30.000 There's a way to improve mobility, by the way, so a lot of bodybuilders do not care.

02:11:34.000 Right.

02:11:35.000 And like there is some anatomical limitations ultimately if there is muscles literally in the way.

02:11:39.000 But I just want to put out there, like, I'm sure I could have figured it out if I cared at the time.

02:11:43.000 Perhaps, but at 265 with your frame.

02:11:46.000 Oh, yeah, I would have been limited by like the actual anatomy, but like I had no care for optimizing mobility or anything.

02:11:54.000 I was just like, what's my max bench?

02:11:55.000 Show a photo of Derek when he was jacked.

02:11:58.000 When he was super jacked, because there's some photos of him out there that are just, you were preposterous.

02:12:02.000 Yeah.

02:12:03.000 Do you miss those days?

02:12:04.000 You ever look at that physique?

02:12:05.000 Damn, I look pretty fucking good.

02:12:07.000 No, I mean, I feel like I've come to peace a while ago with not looking like that anymore.

02:12:12.000 It's a lot of upkeep, dude.

02:12:15.000 Yeah, look at you then.

02:12:16.000 Is that your height?

02:12:18.000 I think you were a little bigger than that at one point.

02:12:19.000 Yeah, I think this is like a profile picture.

02:12:22.000 So yeah, that was a more recent one.

02:12:25.000 It's probably like how I lost 75 pounds in the bottom left.

02:12:29.000 It's probably right there.

02:12:32.000 The fat, it may be one of those.

02:12:34.000 That shot probably is one of the biggest.

02:12:36.000 Bro, you got big at one point in time.

02:12:38.000 Was that how you were before you started lifting?

02:12:41.000 Look at that old school blackberry you have that dates it just by the phone.

02:12:45.000 Oh, yeah.

02:12:46.000 Yeah, it was.

02:12:49.000 I was like trying to be a competitive bodybuilder and I just kind of realized that I could look good for Fitness industry, I guess, for kind of looking jacked for Instagram or whatever and like doing okay at like a regional level for you know a lower tier level of physiques,

02:13:06.000 but like bodybuilding to take it to that next level, it was just like a level of stress I wouldn't be able to one be willing to sustain, and then two it just wouldn't have been worth it because it was like I had tried pushing drugs and like I just wasn't responding to a level I knew I needed to to continue and justify using that much.

02:13:26.000 Is it a genetic thing?

02:13:27.000 Yeah, so it's like your uh androgen receptor content is a uh largely predetermined thing.

02:13:35.000 There are some things you can do similar to like mitochondrial density and things of that nature that you can do to upregulate and improve it and certain supplements you can use, but ultimately your number of muscle fibers are going to be limited.

02:13:48.000 Like there's going to be people who are just at baseline, you know, chihuahua looking humans that if you put them on gear, they just become bigger chihuahua humans essentially, but like they're never going to be checked.

02:14:02.000 Yeah, they're never going to get to you know Mr. Olympia caliber.

02:14:05.000 And there's a certain like muscle belly that's more conducive to looking bigger and also being able to support certain body weights is even like a health thing too.

02:14:14.000 It's not just how well do you respond to drugs.

02:14:15.000 It's also how long can you take them without dying.

02:14:19.000 You know, so it's like some of the most highest performing and like excelling athletes are individuals who can tolerate this stuff and not go crazy from the some people mentally cannot handle these level of androgens and they, you know, it wrecks their sleep, it wrecks their blood work, it wrecks, they get really early cardiovascular disease.

02:14:39.000 Psychologically too, they go crazy.

02:14:41.000 Yeah.

02:14:42.000 I've seen deaths in you know late 20s, mid-30s.

02:14:45.000 And there was a guy that was Vitor Belford's trainer when Vitor first entered into the UFC.

02:14:51.000 So Vitor, when he first fought in the UFC, weighed 200 pounds in his UFC debut when he fought Trey Teligman.

02:14:57.000 That was UFC 12.

02:14:59.000 And he was like a super athletic, fast, lethal black belt with vicious hands. 1.00

02:15:06.000 And then when he fought Randy Gotor, he was 240.

02:15:08.000 And his neck started at the top of his head.

02:15:11.000 He just looked like a low.

02:15:13.000 It was a giant fucking trap.

02:15:14.000 Yeah, it was just ridiculous.

02:15:15.000 He was just ridiculous.

02:15:16.000 And the guy who was working out with him, this guy Curtis, wound up dying very young.

02:15:21.000 And we used to call him garden hoses because this guy's veins were, he was so vascular.

02:15:25.000 It was fucking ridiculous.

02:15:26.000 We worked out next to him.

02:15:27.000 Like, bro, you got garden hoses for veins.

02:15:30.000 You're fucking insane.

02:15:31.000 He was just insane.

02:15:32.000 And he was so big, like, so big, 300 plus, 510, 300 plus pounds, just fucking jacked.

02:15:40.000 He was so big.

02:15:41.000 And, you know, he had Vitor convinced that that was the way to go.

02:15:45.000 Just fucking hit the gas full speed.

02:15:48.000 Yeah.

02:15:48.000 I mean, at his peak, he was one of the sauciest dudes, or at least, you know, he was like the perfect hybrid of athleticism, meets, like crazy-looking physique, I would say, at least at the time, from what I can recall.

02:15:59.000 Well, the TRT Vitor was Vitor, so Vitor on the gear when he was younger, and then no gear for a while, low period.

02:16:08.000 And then when they had TRT in the UFC, where they allowed it when it was legal, which was a crazy few years that people call it the TRT Vitor years, where Vitor was just dominating everybody.

02:16:19.000 Yeah, it was terrifying.

02:16:20.000 Him and Overem are like poster child's.

02:16:22.000 Overem was the that is the poster child.

02:16:24.000 See if you can find a video of Armand Sarukian's mobility workouts.

02:16:29.000 I just had it.

02:16:30.000 Do you have it?

02:16:31.000 Because he does really interesting stuff.

02:16:33.000 Oh, yeah.

02:16:33.000 Yeah, like stuff I've never seen UFC athletes do, but I would think would be really conducive, especially to like scrambles and weird grappling positions where you want to have strength and like odd, like odd positions of your body where you're stretched out.

02:16:52.000 There's one on the side just showing.

02:16:54.000 Oh, yeah.

02:16:55.000 I can't imagine.

02:16:56.000 So this kind of stuff, like this kind of stuff.

02:16:58.000 Yeah.

02:16:59.000 Like, look at this.

02:17:00.000 Like, look at all these things.

02:17:02.000 So he's doing these kind of things all the time.

02:17:05.000 Just to maintain that kind of flexibility along with all that mass and all that power that he has.

02:17:05.000 Oh, yeah.

02:17:13.000 Yeah, getting out of some of those awkward positions.

02:17:15.000 got to be able to get into weird spots comfortably and yeah this is look at that Like, that's crazy.

02:17:22.000 That's crazy rotation of his back.

02:17:25.000 Yeah.

02:17:26.000 He's got amazing mobility, but I do have to say he also has back problems.

02:17:31.000 And it might be one of the reasons why he does.

02:17:32.000 I mean, yeah, when you go exorcism on the fucking toaster machine, I can imagine he probably ends up with something.

02:17:39.000 I don't think that's what caused it.

02:17:41.000 Honestly, I think it's probably grappling.

02:17:43.000 He's a really elite grappler.

02:17:45.000 There's a video of him grappling with Hamzat, and he keeps up with Hamzat.

02:17:50.000 And their two weight classes separated.

02:17:52.000 And Hamzat is fucking fantastic.

02:17:54.000 And, you know, they're scrambling.

02:17:56.000 And it's like a very competitive grappling session.

02:17:59.000 Yeah.

02:18:00.000 I mean, it's, and circling back to some like, you know, the sauce days and like the garden hose guy.

02:18:06.000 I do think it's good that the education is out there, though, for people to be able to know how to not die from this stuff now.

02:18:12.000 Whoa, that's Curtis.

02:18:14.000 Yeah.

02:18:14.000 yeah that's him because back then it would just be like go to that photo again in the upper left that upper left photo that That's crazy.

02:18:22.000 Guy was so vascular.

02:18:23.000 Like, look at his bicep.

02:18:25.000 Fucking bananas, right?

02:18:26.000 Look at that right bicep and his chest.

02:18:29.000 He's got fucking garden hoses on his chest. 0.97

02:18:31.000 He had a full chocolate button.

02:18:32.000 Chocolate face, too.

02:18:34.000 He had chocolate face.

02:18:34.000 Or melanotan, not the wazoo.

02:18:36.000 Well, you know, the guys that do it now where they keep their face white because they don't want to be called out for having black face.

02:18:41.000 Have you seen that?

02:18:42.000 Yeah, that's funny.

02:18:44.000 It is funny.

02:18:44.000 Have you seen the, I think we looked at the melanotan people.

02:18:48.000 Is that one of the first ones?

02:18:49.000 Yeah, melanotan 2 is a one of the, I don't know if it's an obscure one, but I guess maybe proportional to some of the more widespread ones nowadays, but it's like a melanocortin receptor agonist.

02:19:01.000 And actually, an analog of it is used for women for a hypoactive, like low sexual drive.

02:19:08.000 So it actually enhances sexual drive too.

02:19:11.000 So there's like a component, there's a version of the drug that doesn't tan you that just like makes you hornier that women are prescribed called Vilecy. 0.96

02:19:18.000 And then men, there's no drug approved, but you could theoretically take it, but it gives you boners and also makes you tanned if you take the melanotan too.

02:19:27.000 Yeah.

02:19:27.000 Huh.

02:19:28.000 So it's like for bodybuilders and it also suppresses appetite as well.

02:19:31.000 Whoa, it really does that?

02:19:34.000 That's well, that's a weird, the lighting on that one on the right is weird for his from the daily.

02:19:39.000 Yeah, it's right on the Daily Mail, though, it seems like they might have an idea.

02:19:42.000 No, no, no, dude, this is actually possible.

02:19:44.000 I like how it says that too.

02:19:45.000 Yeah, you can literally manually become black with this drug.

02:19:49.000 Didn't some lady take that? 1.00

02:19:51.000 She was on like one of them Sally Jesse Raphael shows.

02:19:54.000 Yeah, and she claimed she was black.

02:19:56.000 Yeah.

02:19:57.000 And she's like, look at me.

02:19:58.000 What are you going to tell me I'm not?

02:20:00.000 Yeah.

02:20:01.000 She started talking like, you know, oh, God.

02:20:04.000 How wild.

02:20:05.000 Yeah.

02:20:06.000 What if it did it to your hair too?

02:20:08.000 It does.

02:20:08.000 Because it's all pigment related.

02:20:10.000 So it does make your hair blacker as well.

02:20:12.000 It makes your facial hair darker.

02:20:14.000 Does there something like that for guys that have gray hair?

02:20:14.000 What does it do?

02:20:18.000 Yeah, like it does it to yourself.

02:20:21.000 Yeah, this is the lady. 1.00

02:20:23.000 I forgot about this.

02:20:24.000 Look at her boobs, too. 1.00

02:20:26.000 Oh, my God.

02:20:26.000 Yeah, it's crazy.

02:20:27.000 That lady might be insane. 1.00

02:20:29.000 Like, I'm guessing, yes.

02:20:31.000 And it's like, you almost wouldn't even think it's real if you weren't told by somebody that you actually can go that far.

02:20:39.000 Like, it's, it's literally you pick your dose and the exposure to the sun will dictate via the dosage, like, how dark you get.

02:20:47.000 And you can go all the way.

02:20:49.000 Interesting.

02:20:50.000 Like.

02:20:50.000 Yeah.

02:20:51.000 Full chocolate body.

02:20:52.000 Is there any side effects?

02:20:54.000 Yeah, you get really nauseous if you overdo it.

02:20:57.000 It's actually a really potent appetite suppressor.

02:21:00.000 So it's like one of the back in the day, you could find up my before and after.

02:21:04.000 Type in Melanotan to More Plates, More Dates, and you'll see my before and after.

02:21:08.000 The last time I used it.

02:21:10.000 And did you use it for bodybuilding?

02:21:12.000 Yeah.

02:21:12.000 Because I'm pale as shit.

02:21:14.000 So like for me, the thought of having a tan was pretty awesome.

02:21:18.000 There's me with my CPAP mask on.

02:21:23.000 Why'd you take it with a CPAP mask on?

02:21:25.000 I was just like, I look kind of fucking traded.

02:21:27.000 I'll take a pic.

02:21:27.000 That's funny.

02:21:28.000 If you scroll down, you'll see my back before and after.

02:21:32.000 If you keep going.

02:21:34.000 There, right there.

02:21:35.000 Oh, wow.

02:21:36.000 Yeah, that's like weeks apart.

02:21:37.000 It does tan you.

02:21:38.000 Yeah.

02:21:39.000 Dude, you had fucking giant lats, man.

02:21:41.000 That's nuts.

02:21:42.000 Yeah.

02:21:42.000 You could jump off a fucking cliff and fly to a squirrel.

02:21:47.000 Yeah.

02:21:47.000 What a weird pose.

02:21:48.000 You just stand there like, yeah.

02:21:50.000 Well, bodybuilding is weird, period.

02:21:52.000 It is odd.

02:21:52.000 Yeah.

02:21:53.000 It's just like the whole idea is not the function.

02:21:56.000 It's not performance.

02:21:57.000 It's just looking giant.

02:22:00.000 Yeah, it's like some of the exercises don't even translate the way you think they would to.

02:22:04.000 Like you do a, you get really good at the bench press, and then you do something else that you think is like pushing related or like force production.

02:22:09.000 It's like, oh, I'm weak as shit here for some reason.

02:22:12.000 Even though you thought it would translate, but there's not like a, it's almost training neuronal patterns too, more than even just like the muscle.

02:22:20.000 And you get hypertrophy, but you're also kind of just like training yourself to get really good at specific movements in a way that has like no application to a lot of sports, typically.

02:22:30.000 Just to look jacked.

02:22:31.000 There are more like functional choices, obviously, but like the ones most conducive to bodybuilding and not getting injured are oftentimes like, you know, the typical kind of like beach body style things.

02:22:43.000 But there are, there are more intelligent choices for sure.

02:22:46.000 It's not all that.

02:22:47.000 That's the thing, though.

02:22:48.000 It's like the guys who lift the heaviest and do it.

02:22:52.000 That's, that's a very odd thing.

02:22:54.000 Like, and then they wind up getting fucked.

02:22:55.000 Like Ronnie Coleman wind up really getting fucked up.

02:22:58.000 Ronnie was like famously one of the heaviest lifters as a bodybuilder.

02:23:02.000 And for what it's worth, I'm absolutely not like above this style of training.

02:23:06.000 Like this is like what I still kind of do, to be honest.

02:23:08.000 So it's like, I do, you know, I'm still a fan of bodybuilding.

02:23:11.000 I don't want to like speak poorly on it or anything.

02:23:13.000 And we oversee some of the best bodybuilders on the planet right now as well and make sure they can do it as safely as possible because it's still a dangerous sport.

02:23:22.000 And, you know, you got to take modern knowledge to not screw yourself up nowadays.

02:23:28.000 Do you ever tell a guy like you just don't have the genetics to ever do this at a professional level?

02:23:33.000 Do you ever have to have that conversation with people?

02:23:36.000 Like you're pushing the gear so hard and it's not responding.

02:23:39.000 Like if I had a friend, I guess maybe similar to your like heart to heart you had with Shaw about MMA at the time when it was like not really worth continuing to expose danger-wise.

02:23:51.000 It's, you know, often a lot of these kind of situations happen in bodybuilding where it's like you have a close friend who's taking exorbitant amounts of drugs and you know it's just like killing him.

02:23:51.000 Yeah.

02:24:02.000 And you know that the like you're not going to make it to the Olympia.

02:24:05.000 So really like, what are we doing this for?

02:24:07.000 Yeah.

02:24:08.000 You have better opportunities elsewhere.

02:24:09.000 Like I've had that conversation a couple of times.

02:24:11.000 But in general, it's kind of like you kind of have to have the self-awareness to know.

02:24:18.000 And I think fortunately, that's part of where the education comes in is back in the day, you wouldn't know that you had the bad genetics.

02:24:25.000 You just think everyone's taking more shit than you.

02:24:27.000 Because you wouldn't really, you thought there was a secret that you didn't know.

02:24:30.000 There was some special drug that they sourced from Europe that you're not getting.

02:24:34.000 Right.

02:24:35.000 You know, they have the secret, you know, fill in the blank thing that the guru at the Olympia level who's coaching all the top bodybuilders has.

02:24:42.000 And you just need to get to the next level and get your IFBB pro card.

02:24:45.000 And then maybe I'll get to work with that guru and then he'll give me access to that drug and then I can take it to the next level.

02:24:51.000 And then before you know it, a lot of these guys are still grinding for really like low-level shows or like to place poorly even at like the entry level of professional and their health is a wreck and they're not really going to make it to where they think maybe they're on the path to.

02:25:10.000 And so I don't know.

02:25:11.000 I think the more, you know, transparent look into it has made a lot of people more self-aware to check themselves and also to know if they're even.

02:25:20.000 Because you have to respond well from a health standpoint too.

02:25:23.000 It's not just how good do I look in the mirror.

02:25:25.000 If you have wrecked blood work or you have a abnormal anatomical structure of your heart before you start subjecting yourself to hormones, these are things that are all checkable now proactively.

02:25:38.000 And you could tell beforehand if you're a good candidate, not just from a muscular response standpoint, but also from a health tolerance standpoint.

02:25:46.000 I wonder what, if any, what factor genetic engineering is going to play into bodybuilding.

02:25:53.000 Myostatin inhibition.

02:25:54.000 Yeah.

02:25:56.000 There is gene therapies that are being utilized now.

02:25:59.000 They're just not that efficacious.

02:26:01.000 Is myostatin inhibitors, are people using them now?

02:26:05.000 Pharmaceutical pipelines are trying to integrate them in order to offset muscle catabolism induced via GLP-1 agonists like semaglutide.

02:26:16.000 Interesting.

02:26:17.000 Yeah.

02:26:17.000 So it's kind of a unique time because not only do we have really aggressive fat loss agents that actually work now that are not simply stimming your brain to, you know, to high hell, which a lot of the previous drugs worked like that.

02:26:32.000 Now it's like we have these effective things, but they make you eat so little that we, now the next thing is there's all this attention on how to lose healthy weight and not, you know, a bunch of muscle weight because there's more education around the importance of losing, you know, fat and not muscle, which is metabolically active tissue, health supporting.

02:26:51.000 Whereas if you just end up skinny fat, you might be no better off than when you started, depending on the person.

02:26:57.000 So some of the more refined, currently being developed drugs are like these, fat loss, appetite suppressing agents with concurrent like thermogenic properties for energy expenditure, and then muscle preservation mechanisms built in that inhibit myostatin or act through other pathways to try and keep the muscle on you.

02:27:20.000 Yeah Brigham, from Waste TO WELL, was explaining that they're using some people, rather are using Glp1s in conjunction with Igf and they're they're combining a bunch of different things to offset the bone density and muscle loss and then also encouraging weightlifting while they're doing it, because a lot of people are just taking them and then just shriveling because look, if you starve yourself, you will lose weight, but you're gonna lose bone density, you're gonna lose tissue, you're gonna lose everything.

02:27:46.000 Yeah, that's like one of the I think most important components of the usage of them is especially with, you know women, who might be otherwise not even integrating it into their regular life.

02:27:56.000 They just end up eating less of what is already a nutrient poor or protein poor diet and aren't Strength training as much as, I guess, proportionally to men.

02:28:06.000 It's becoming more prevalent among women, obviously, which is great. 0.79

02:28:09.000 But like the bone loss and muscle loss is significant among anybody who is depriving themselves of nutrients like that.

02:28:17.000 And heart tissue, too.

02:28:18.000 Yeah, like, I mean, everything.

02:28:20.000 You know, you're basically self-inducing malnutrition.

02:28:24.000 I just can't you just diet?

02:28:28.000 I mean, is it is it?

02:28:29.000 It's really a discipline thing with what not with people that are severely obese.

02:28:34.000 Like, I'm in favor of GLP ones for people.

02:28:36.000 Like, if you're 500-pound, which by, but I do have to say, Jellyroll did it on the natch.

02:28:43.000 He did it on the Natch.

02:28:44.000 He did not take GLP1s.

02:28:46.000 He's not, he's not taking nothing, man.

02:28:47.000 That guy is just working out every day and he just cut all the bullshit out of his life.

02:28:52.000 He got rid of his phone.

02:28:53.000 He didn't have a phone for, he has one now, but he didn't have a phone for the fucking longest time.

02:28:57.000 Even his fucking, his, when you text him, his, you know, the little image that shows up when you go, it's a phone with a fucking red line through it.

02:29:06.000 Yeah.

02:29:07.000 Like, I mean, he's just not interested in phones, man.

02:29:07.000 What does that mean?

02:29:10.000 He decided not to have a phone for a long time because he realized it was negative for his mental health and he wanted to lose a bunch of weight, but he did it naturally.

02:29:18.000 He really did.

02:29:19.000 He did it just through hard work and discipline and just, you know, have you seen the images of him now?

02:29:24.000 No.

02:29:25.000 Bro, there's him on stage with Alexander Volkanovsky, and he doesn't even look like the same guy.

02:29:31.000 He's lost 200 plus pounds.

02:29:33.000 Oh, nice.

02:29:34.000 He looks fucking great.

02:29:35.000 I mean, it's amazing.

02:29:36.000 One of the things that's tough when it comes to like the assertion that it's more a willpower thing than anything.

02:29:43.000 In many cases, I do think it is.

02:29:46.000 There are a lot of people with unhealthy behaviors and psychological tendencies to just be, you know, it's easier to be lazy than not.

02:29:52.000 And just, you know, it's also the food addiction because you have to eat.

02:29:56.000 But there are some people who just, if you ultimately have a genetically higher baseline, perpetual level of appetite signaling, it's kind of hard to tell that person, like, just fucking, you know, wrench it out, bro.

02:30:12.000 Like, you got this.

02:30:13.000 And it's like, I know a lot of people in the fitness industry.

02:30:16.000 Hey, look at him, look how much weight he's lost.

02:30:17.000 Isn't it incredible?

02:30:18.000 Yeah, it's great.

02:30:19.000 Dude, he looks fucking great.

02:30:21.000 It's really amazing.

02:30:22.000 No, especially impressive for individuals who are that obese to make that big of a change.

02:30:28.000 It's like, it's the hardest to make that first step and get that big of a weight cut.

02:30:32.000 Yeah, and then it's momentum after that.

02:30:34.000 I watched an incredible video yesterday.

02:30:36.000 One of the most motivational videos I've ever seen.

02:30:39.000 I'll send it to you, Jamie.

02:30:40.000 It's this kid.

02:30:41.000 And this guy is out of shape.

02:30:46.000 He's got high body fat.

02:30:48.000 And the video is him saying that he wants to work out like David Goggins for 100 days.

02:30:55.000 He doesn't work out at all.

02:30:57.000 And he goes from, I'll send it to you, Jamie.

02:31:01.000 He goes from being this guy who's like completely out of shape to at the end of the video, he does a fucking Iron Man.

02:31:09.000 You found it?

02:31:09.000 Yeah.

02:31:10.000 So this is the guy.

02:31:11.000 So in the beginning, in the beginning, he's like kind of fat and like, that's what he looks like.

02:31:18.000 And, you know, he's like motivated by Goggins.

02:31:22.000 So the first day he runs, he gets up at 5:30 in the morning and he runs 13 miles the first day.

02:31:28.000 I mean, he's never, he doesn't run at all.

02:31:30.000 He doesn't work out at all.

02:31:31.000 He eats junk food.

02:31:33.000 He's running, running past McDonald's and shit.

02:31:36.000 He's all fat.

02:31:37.000 By the end of it, he's doing an ultra.

02:31:38.000 Well, he does an ultra marathon halfway into it.

02:31:41.000 And then by the end of it, he does an Iron Man.

02:31:43.000 And now he regularly runs 100-mile races.

02:31:46.000 He got down to 140 pounds.

02:31:48.000 He's shredded now.

02:31:49.000 It's really, really impressive.

02:31:51.000 That's awesome.

02:31:52.000 Because it's just all discipline.

02:31:53.000 Look at the difference.

02:31:54.000 145, 9% body fat.

02:31:57.000 He started out at 184, 27% body fat.

02:32:00.000 And look, he's all lean now and healthy, and he's running 100-mile races now.

02:32:05.000 It's really amazing because he just did it with sheer willpower and documented the whole thing.

02:32:11.000 He's in agony.

02:32:12.000 His ankle's all fucked up from running, so he swims and he swims in the pool, and then he decides to swim with weights on. 0.63

02:32:18.000 He really becomes obsessed.

02:32:20.000 Have you seen the guy who fasted for a year straight?

02:32:23.000 Yes, that's an old story, right?

02:32:25.000 Yeah, but I think that's still the record for like longest period of not eating and just like adhering to a diet.

02:32:33.000 And he got vitamin IVs.

02:32:35.000 And the guy who did that, what's interesting is he also lost skin.

02:32:40.000 So his skin shrank along with his body, which I thought was fascinating.

02:32:45.000 Yeah, I mean, I would imagine that to some extent there's some elasticity depending on how long you've been fat and also like, I don't know, maybe just the tissue itself.

02:32:55.000 There is some level of 382 days.

02:32:58.000 I'm sure your body's fiending for energy from anywhere it can find it if there's some way to, I don't know.

02:33:03.000 But I think the interesting thing is he didn't come around, come out of it looking like a lot of these people do where they have to get all their skin removed.

02:33:11.000 I mean, I feel like there's got to be loose skin to some extent.

02:33:16.000 Does he have a shirtless?

02:33:17.000 I don't know.

02:33:17.000 I don't know if it's a shirtless, but that was part of the narrative.

02:33:20.000 His skin actually shrank along with his body because he wasn't eating at all.

02:33:25.000 I want to see that.

02:33:26.000 Does that make sense?

02:33:28.000 I was trying to play along for a sec, but now I'm like, there's not a pick.

02:33:31.000 I don't know, dude.

02:33:32.000 Well, it's also, it's 1960, whatever it was.

02:33:35.000 Sounds like an interesting tale that might have passed through the grapevine.

02:33:39.000 Yeah, I wouldn't recommend that, though.

02:33:41.000 No.

02:33:42.000 That sounds crazy.

02:33:43.000 And then once you start eating again, how do you just keep the fucking floodgates from?

02:33:48.000 That's the interesting thing is some people psychologically, it's easier to adhere to something when they're full bore.

02:33:53.000 And then I know a lot of people who they'll do commit to a competition because they know I'm accountable to step on stage and I don't want to look like shit when I'm on stage.

02:34:02.000 They get a bunch of photos done.

02:34:02.000 And they do it.

02:34:04.000 And then after they go off the rails and they're like right back to where they started within, you know, a month or two.

02:34:09.000 That happens to a lot of fighters.

02:34:11.000 They get done with fighting and then they get really fat.

02:34:15.000 It's really common.

02:34:16.000 It's really common because they also develop real eating disorders because you're cutting weight all the time.

02:34:22.000 Yeah.

02:34:23.000 Yeah.

02:34:23.000 I mean, for some of them, it's like you're basically like doing bodybuilder shit, essentially.

02:34:28.000 Well, Patty Pimblet's the best example of a current active fighter. 1.00

02:34:31.000 Oh, that guy's crazy, dude.

02:34:32.000 He gets so big.

02:34:33.000 Dude, his moon face is like the best in the league, probably.

02:34:38.000 So here it says, 382 days from June 14th, 1965 through June 30th of 1966.

02:34:47.000 He consumed only vitamins, electrolytes, an unspecified amount of yeast, a source of essential amino acids, and zero calorie beverages such as tea, coffee, and sparkling water.

02:34:56.000 Although he occasionally added milk and or sugar to the beverages, especially during the final weeks of the fast.

02:35:02.000 Barbieri began his treatment in the hospital, but for most of the 382 days he lived at home.

02:35:08.000 Okay, it says stool samples were not taken, but he reportedly went up To 48 days between stools.

02:35:16.000 Wow.

02:35:17.000 Which sounds crazy, but it's like, what's there going to?

02:35:19.000 Yeah, what will be coming out?

02:35:20.000 His starting weight was 456, and the fast officially stopped July 1966.

02:35:27.000 He reached his goal weight of 180 pounds.

02:35:30.000 Wow.

02:35:31.000 Yeah, that's nuts.

02:35:32.000 Next 10 days, doctors placed him on a diet of salt and then sugar in preparation for solid food.

02:35:38.000 Though some sources record the fast being 392 days instead of 382.

02:35:43.000 Wow.

02:35:44.000 Now, one of the things that's tough is it's like, even though maybe that case study exists and there's people who just brute force willpower their way through it, some of those people otherwise might have genetically been able to tolerate, you know, the hunger signaling better than somebody else who literally cannot focus on work or anything when they're that hungry.

02:36:04.000 And it almost sometimes doesn't even come down to the diet quality as much as somebody might tell them.

02:36:10.000 Yeah, it does.

02:36:11.000 It does to some extent, but and it's certainly getting rid of the shitty processed foods and getting on a good exercise regimen and doing all the things to set yourself up in the best position will probably take care of most people.

02:36:21.000 But there are some individuals who just like at baseline, even on the inverse side, I know a lot of people who simply aren't hungry and they have to force feed themselves to gain muscle because they're just perpetually shredded and they have like the opposite problem because their hunger signaling is so low.

02:36:39.000 So it's like people look at them as an example in the fitness industry of like, oh, this guy has the best discipline.

02:36:44.000 He's like so shredded all the time.

02:36:46.000 And in reality, that guy's like, I hate food.

02:36:49.000 That's so weird.

02:36:50.000 There's one guy in particular.

02:36:51.000 His name's David Leid.

02:36:53.000 And he's like, I don't know, like a teenage, well, he's like in his 20s now, but teenagers look up to him as kind of like a fitness industry icon of aesthetics.

02:37:01.000 And he's perpetually had a shredded six-pack.

02:37:04.000 He's pretty jacked.

02:37:05.000 He's handsome.

02:37:05.000 He's tall.

02:37:06.000 And he literally says on camera, I hate eating.

02:37:11.000 And he's like serious about it.

02:37:12.000 He's like, I can't stand having to eat meals.

02:37:15.000 Yeah.

02:37:15.000 What?

02:37:16.000 Oh, my God.

02:37:17.000 Like, it's not even just like to be a bodybuilder.

02:37:20.000 Like, he's just like, I don't know.

02:37:22.000 What is he eating?

02:37:23.000 How is that possible?

02:37:25.000 Good, high-quality food.

02:37:26.000 Best picture I can find.

02:37:28.000 I can't tell.

02:37:29.000 You can't tell.

02:37:30.000 Yeah.

02:37:31.000 It looks like he's got some fat there.

02:37:32.000 Yeah, it looks like he's got a bunch of extra skin there.

02:37:34.000 I mean, it's just like.

02:37:36.000 How could he not?

02:37:37.000 Yeah.

02:37:37.000 How could he not?

02:37:38.000 Find a picture of that other guy.

02:37:39.000 Who's the guy that they call the most shredded guy alive?

02:37:42.000 There's oh, helmet shrubble.

02:37:44.000 Yes, that guy.

02:37:45.000 That guy is crazy.

02:37:47.000 Yeah, find that guy.

02:37:48.000 That's ridiculous.

02:37:49.000 What is it?

02:37:50.000 It's H-E-L-M-U-T. 1.00

02:37:53.000 It's been a while since I've looked at this guy.

02:37:55.000 And then S-T-R-E-B-L. 0.97

02:37:59.000 And did it come up?

02:38:02.000 Helmet shredded is coming up.

02:38:03.000 That guy.

02:38:04.000 Helmet Shrebble.

02:38:05.000 Is this him?

02:38:06.000 Yeah.

02:38:07.000 Oh, Jesus.

02:38:08.000 That is insane.

02:38:11.000 Yeah.

02:38:12.000 I mean, that guy's physique is the man with 0% body fat.

02:38:17.000 That's hilarious.

02:38:18.000 That's not possible, folks.

02:38:20.000 You want to see even more shredded?

02:38:22.000 Is that really possible?

02:38:23.000 That he's got more.

02:38:24.000 There's someone more shredded than he's going to be.

02:38:25.000 Yeah, type in Andreas Munzer.

02:38:27.000 Oh, I've seen that guy.

02:38:28.000 But what is this guy's body fat?

02:38:30.000 It's not zero.

02:38:31.000 Zero is not possible.

02:38:33.000 What is that?

02:38:34.000 Six?

02:38:37.000 Five?

02:38:38.000 Five or six, maybe?

02:38:39.000 No, no.

02:38:40.000 That would be like stage, super stage-ready beyond most bodybuilders, even at their best of the best in terms of conditioning.

02:38:48.000 So I don't know, maybe like six, seven.

02:38:49.000 It's kind of tough though, dude, because it's like some of these guys, they have like, oh, Jesus Christ.

02:38:55.000 Go back to that picture.

02:38:56.000 That's nuts.

02:38:57.000 That's like aggressive filtering and sharpening to look.

02:39:00.000 Whatever.

02:39:01.000 Whatever it is.

02:39:02.000 That's his real body.

02:39:04.000 That's insane.

02:39:05.000 Yeah.

02:39:06.000 Even, I mean, it's obviously like the best possible lighting for that effect.

02:39:10.000 There's distribution of fat and water that some people just looks more shredded than another person who might otherwise store any excess fat on like their ass or like their love handles or like whatever.

02:39:24.000 For a guy like that, not only is he diced, and, like, obviously he's just diced, but he has, like, a dry look to the skin that enhances the kind of perceived leanness.

02:39:35.000 And it's like, I forgot what it is.

02:39:37.000 It's not dick skin lean.

02:39:39.000 I forgot what the dick skin lean. 0.99

02:39:41.000 I forget what the terminology is, but it's like it's like white guy something.

02:39:46.000 And it's just like if you're certain white physiques are known to look more like you're almost so pale and dry that it like enhances the perceived leanness, if that makes like any sense whatsoever. 0.52

02:39:58.000 That's the weirdest thing about bodybuilding, right?

02:40:01.000 You have to be super dehydrated to look great and you're almost dead.

02:40:05.000 Yeah.

02:40:06.000 And then you have to, you know, go chocolate body and stuff.

02:40:10.000 It's not ideal.

02:40:11.000 But those guys, they black out sometimes backstage, don't they?

02:40:15.000 Yeah.

02:40:16.000 No!

02:40:17.000 Yeah, that's crazy.

02:40:18.000 Which guy's that?

02:40:19.000 That's helmet.

02:40:20.000 That's him?

02:40:21.000 4% body fat.

02:40:22.000 4%.

02:40:23.000 might be totally butchering his name by the way so if i'm i hope Bro. Helmet.

02:40:28.000 I hope I'm saying it right.

02:40:29.000 I would never wear a shirt.

02:40:31.000 Why would I wear a shirt?

02:40:34.000 He's 47?

02:40:35.000 Wow.

02:40:36.000 In this article, too, which is probably like five to 10 years old.

02:40:39.000 What does it look like now?

02:40:40.000 I wonder if he keeps it up because, I mean, I would be so hungry.

02:40:44.000 Yeah.

02:40:45.000 Unless you're on a GLP.

02:40:46.000 Oh, this is him.

02:40:47.000 This is him now.

02:40:49.000 That's crazy.

02:40:49.000 Wow.

02:40:50.000 No, that's not.

02:40:51.000 That's got to be not the same photo someone else was.

02:40:54.000 Oh, somebody else put it up there.

02:40:55.000 I think he has an IG.

02:40:56.000 It doesn't seem like that's one of the weird things when you're such an OG of the industry that you just have like weird residual fan pages and you don't even know if it's the guy or not.

02:41:04.000 What's that old guy?

02:41:05.000 He was bald the old days.

02:41:07.000 He had like the hair on the side.

02:41:09.000 Scooby.

02:41:10.000 Was that his name?

02:41:11.000 Maybe.

02:41:11.000 I don't know.

02:41:12.000 White guy.

02:41:13.000 He was like famous shredded guy back in the early days of bodybuilding.

02:41:19.000 He was not big.

02:41:20.000 He was thin, but he was like super fucking ripped.

02:41:23.000 god i can't remember his name was he uh but he had like the hair on the side Like weird, like old man bald.

02:41:30.000 You know, didn't have a full shaved head.

02:41:32.000 Old man bald.

02:41:33.000 Yeah, he looked like when people went bald in the 50s and they didn't shave the side of their head.

02:41:38.000 Yeah.

02:41:39.000 Fuck.

02:41:40.000 I'm sure if I saw it, I would know who you were talking about.

02:41:42.000 He was famous for teaching.

02:41:45.000 You got him?

02:41:45.000 I feel like you have another.

02:41:46.000 I don't even get that name yet, but is this him?

02:41:46.000 What's his name?

02:41:48.000 No, no, that's not him.

02:41:50.000 It's older.

02:41:51.000 I bet you from a long time ago.

02:41:53.000 Fuck.

02:41:54.000 Who's the, what's your preferred AI search tool?

02:41:57.000 And type in what you just said.

02:41:59.000 Yeah, put that into perplexities.

02:42:00.000 Old man bald.

02:42:02.000 OG fitness influencer.

02:42:03.000 You have to give me a better search for a time period.

02:42:05.000 90s, 2000.

02:42:06.000 Yeah, yeah, 90s.

02:42:08.000 Yeah, 90s.

02:42:09.000 90s.

02:42:10.000 His name is at the tip of my tongue.

02:42:10.000 Oh, God.

02:42:13.000 Oh, this is driving me crazy.

02:42:15.000 Super shredded.

02:42:16.000 Yeah.

02:42:17.000 He would teach people how to be shredded.

02:42:19.000 He had like this protocol for how to lose weight, but his whole thing was being shredded.

02:42:24.000 It wasn't that big.

02:42:25.000 I mean, he was, you know, fit, but not like, you know, bodybuilder jacked.

02:42:29.000 And he was Caucasian?

02:42:30.000 Yes.

02:42:31.000 It's telling me Billy Blanks.

02:42:31.000 Yeah.

02:42:33.000 No, White guy.

02:42:37.000 I was going to say Athleen X, but there's no way that's who you're trying to get. 0.63

02:42:37.000 Fuck. 0.63

02:42:40.000 No, no, no, no.

02:42:41.000 He's got great hair.

02:42:42.000 It's a long time ago.

02:42:43.000 No, Athleene X has got wonderful hair. 0.98

02:42:46.000 It's funny little.

02:42:47.000 It's not right either.

02:42:48.000 Speaking of hair, there's that new thing that is the study out of UCLA where they're going to be able to grow hair back.

02:42:54.000 Isn't that wild?

02:42:54.000 Yeah.

02:42:55.000 I dumped?

02:42:56.000 You don't believe it or not?

02:42:57.000 No, dude, it's like every week it's some new thing.

02:43:00.000 Like rodent regrew hair after being shaved bald using UCLA mediated broccoli extract or whatever the fuck.

02:43:07.000 And it's like now every Reddit scientist is dumping fucking broccoli juice on their head or whatever.

02:43:12.000 It's just like never really pans out ultimately.

02:43:15.000 And it's pretty shocking.

02:43:17.000 I think I even mentioned this at one point that we have all these refined AI tools and drugs and some of the most developed and refined, nearly side effect-free drugs for some things that are pretty significant roots of disease, but like hair loss, like no one has a clue how to fix it without.

02:43:35.000 Or dick size.

02:43:37.000 Hair loss and dick size.

02:43:38.000 Two big ones.

02:43:39.000 We know how to max out your genetic capacity for dick size, though. 0.93

02:43:42.000 Well, the nuttiest thing that I've been paying attention lately is so many guys that are getting their legs broken to get taller.

02:43:48.000 I got an update on that guy if you wanted to.

02:43:49.000 Oh, the Sasquatch guy?

02:43:50.000 Yeah.

02:43:50.000 How's he doing?

02:43:53.000 I mean, he's walking, but it's like not perfect.

02:43:56.000 But it's been a few years, right?

02:43:57.000 But he's also like the most extreme edge case example of it's almost if it was unfair to use a guy as a reference point.

02:43:57.000 Yeah.

02:44:06.000 It's like this is the heaviest, tallest example.

02:44:09.000 So it's like if anyone.

02:44:10.000 Because he was six feet when he started and he got to 6'6 and he was not walking like a year later.

02:44:17.000 Yeah.

02:44:18.000 So he needs crutches.

02:44:19.000 He said, let's see.

02:44:23.000 I could send this to you if you wanted to put it up on the screen where I could just show you here.

02:44:26.000 Yeah, just text it to me.

02:44:28.000 What is he?

02:44:29.000 Is he okay?

02:44:30.000 I mean, he got sued by the company that did his surgery.

02:44:35.000 He got sued?

02:44:36.000 Yeah.

02:44:37.000 Why did he get sued?

02:44:38.000 Because he was talking about all like the mishaps that happened when he got.

02:44:43.000 Because it's kind of like there are good clinics and bad clinics in terms of quality.

02:44:48.000 And he kind of was, I guess, too forthcoming about like I did a podcast with them and they didn't like it.

02:44:53.000 They're suing him.

02:44:54.000 Yeah.

02:44:55.000 Literally.

02:44:56.000 Well, they did sue him, yeah.

02:44:57.000 How can you sue someone for telling the truth about a procedure that didn't work out so great?

02:45:02.000 I mean, great question.

02:45:05.000 That's what I said.

02:45:06.000 How could you win?

02:45:07.000 Maybe you could sue someone else.

02:45:08.000 Maybe it's just like bury them in fees or something.

02:45:11.000 I don't know.

02:45:12.000 Yeah, probably.

02:45:14.000 All right, check.

02:45:15.000 See if this came through.

02:45:17.000 Hopefully my LTE is good.

02:45:19.000 Nope.

02:45:20.000 Not yet.

02:45:21.000 You can airdrop it to my computer if it pops up.

02:45:25.000 Yeah, there you go.

02:45:30.000 So he's still fucked?

02:45:33.000 One sec.

02:45:33.000 Yeah.

02:45:34.000 God damn, man.

02:45:37.000 Downloading?

02:45:39.000 Yeah, I was watching this guy yesterday on Instagram.

02:45:43.000 This fairly thin kid.

02:45:45.000 He wasn't big, but he gained five inches.

02:45:50.000 He was like 5'5.

02:45:51.000 Now he's 5'10.

02:45:52.000 He's real happy with it.

02:45:53.000 But I'm just like, Jesus Christ.

02:45:55.000 And a year later, again, in crutches, one year later, it took him a year and a half before he could walk normally.

02:46:01.000 I mean, some people, that's still worth it to not have to.

02:46:04.000 I guess.

02:46:05.000 I mean, if you're five feet tall and then all of a sudden you're 5'7, I guess.

02:46:05.000 Yeah.

02:46:09.000 Here, see if it, did it come through for you?

02:46:10.000 Yeah, yeah, I was trying to figure out what to play.

02:46:12.000 I airdropped it.

02:46:13.000 I got it.

02:46:14.000 I got it on the screen.

02:46:16.000 Nice.

02:46:16.000 Okay.

02:46:17.000 So this is 2023.

02:46:19.000 Oh, wow.

02:46:20.000 He did it way back then.

02:46:21.000 Yes.

02:46:22.000 Oh, my God.

02:46:22.000 Look how skinny his legs are.

02:46:23.000 That's crazy how skinny his legs were.

02:46:26.000 To have that much mass up top, that's crazy.

02:46:30.000 Yeah.

02:46:31.000 That's probably the problem, right?

02:46:33.000 Well, it definitely is, like I said, the most extreme of circumstances to impose for what was seemingly a poor quality clinic.

02:46:43.000 And then also trying to go from a height that's objectively tall to a height that's objectively, extremely tall with the most heavy guy that's probably ever done the procedure, you would think.

02:46:54.000 Yeah.

02:46:55.000 Well, he's 300 pounds.

02:46:56.000 Wait, I think he was way more than that.

02:46:58.000 You would say, like, hey, man, if you're going to do this, lose upper body weight and then gain it back.

02:47:02.000 So you can give your legs a chance to grow.

02:47:05.000 Oh, my God.

02:47:05.000 That's so crazy.

02:47:06.000 It just, it makes me freak out because I'm getting anxiety.

02:47:09.000 They're just going to snap and he's going to fall over.

02:47:12.000 Yeah, there definitely is something a little bit unnatural about watching even like the strikes on the ground.

02:47:17.000 Yeah, it makes you feel like something's just going to like snap.

02:47:21.000 Yeah.

02:47:21.000 But to his credit, I mean, like, the guy literally couldn't even walk before and he's optimistic about it still and he thinks he's going to make a full recovery.

02:47:30.000 There is now November 2025.

02:47:32.000 So that's two years later.

02:47:33.000 Two years later, he can walk.

02:47:35.000 Or if he has to run from a fire.

02:47:36.000 You know what I mean?

02:47:37.000 He's fucked.

02:47:38.000 For sure.

02:47:39.000 Well, also the mechanics.

02:47:39.000 Yeah.

02:47:41.000 Like, your body's used to moving legs that are six inches shorter.

02:47:45.000 And now, like, the knee has different pressure.

02:47:47.000 And, you know, it's got to be really fucking strange.

02:47:51.000 He said, let's see.

02:47:52.000 Bones are mostly healed.

02:47:54.000 Just have a lot of weakness.

02:47:56.000 As legs strengthen, the pain decreases and the spasms.

02:47:59.000 Also, he's got to be on the sauce, too, right?

02:48:01.000 Yeah.

02:48:02.000 So even that's not helping?

02:48:04.000 I mean, if anything, it would be it would help in some of the recovery for Bone, but it would also keep him yoked and like more pressure on that, too.

02:48:15.000 So like maybe it's a bit of a double-edged sword there.

02:48:20.000 He says, major hurdles cleared.

02:48:23.000 Infection, knee tendonopathy will probably walk normal within a couple months.

02:48:27.000 I can hop, but will need to strengthen much more in order to really jump, jog, and run.

02:48:31.000 Applying to have a U.S. doctor fully fix any remaining issues, but for now, legs are good.

02:48:36.000 Where'd he get his surgery done?

02:48:38.000 It was, I did a podcast with them last year, and I think it was Thailand Clinic.

02:48:45.000 Oh, boy.

02:48:45.000 He did a bargain.

02:48:47.000 He got a bargain.

02:48:48.000 Did he do a group on?

02:48:49.000 It definitely wasn't the best choice.

02:48:52.000 He's nine years post-surgery.

02:48:52.000 This guy got it.

02:48:54.000 They were doing this nine years ago?

02:48:56.000 this guy as far as i know he is a bit of a unique case in that he was actually correcting an asymmetry so he had i'm almost positive I don't want to misspeak.

02:49:06.000 I'm sure he'll correct it if he sees this, but I'm pretty sure he had one leg was like unusually asymmetrically shorter than the other one.

02:49:15.000 And then he was kind of evening it out to what would otherwise be his, you know, like genetic symmetrical match.

02:49:22.000 Oh, interesting.

02:49:24.000 So there's different applications to which people do this.

02:49:28.000 And it's not always just like pure vanity.

02:49:31.000 I want to get, you know, really tall.

02:49:33.000 It's sometimes like to correct a functional like asymmetry.

02:49:38.000 It's just, you know, a lot of people, you hear about the cases of, I want to get really tall for superficial reasons.

02:49:44.000 It's just a matter of time before they're just genetically engineering everybody to look like Thor.

02:49:50.000 You know, it's just a matter of time.

02:49:52.000 I think there's a lot of people that don't want this to work though, too, because it's like, if it's almost too easy or like, you know, doable, it's just like some people, I say a lot of people unreasonably shit on these people.

02:50:04.000 And it's just like, you know, just take the content for what it is, you know?

02:50:08.000 Yeah, no, that's true.

02:50:09.000 But I'm saying about with the genetic engineering, there's a lot of people that are going to not want that to work either, but tough shit.

02:50:15.000 You're not going to hold back science because you don't like the fact that, especially if someone has poor genetics and they just look gross in their whole life, they've looked gross.

02:50:23.000 And then all of a sudden something comes along.

02:50:24.000 It's like, and now you're a fucking supermodel and you're six foot six.

02:50:28.000 And like, Mike, it's you?

02:50:31.000 What the fuck happened?

02:50:32.000 I went to this clinic in Turkey and look what they did.

02:50:35.000 Yeah, that was like you were asking about what we talked about this before.

02:50:38.000 Bone smashing.

02:50:39.000 What?

02:50:40.000 I just saw a video about this and thought it was fake, but this seems like a place to find out if it's real.

02:50:45.000 So people are like, baby.

02:50:45.000 Well, yeah.

02:50:47.000 They're like.

02:50:48.000 Yeah.

02:50:49.000 Whatever they can do.

02:50:51.000 I'm pretty sure this is not like an, it's like a clickbaity thing among the people that do this stuff.

02:50:57.000 Wait a minute, wait a minute.

02:50:58.000 He's hitting himself with a fucking hammer?

02:51:00.000 A kid was just using like a trophy, just banging his face all day.

02:51:03.000 He's like, I've been doing this for years.

02:51:05.000 So they like think that they can induce acute like bone remodeling in the area to kind of like enhance like, I don't know, Zygoma development or what have you and get better, you know, whatever asymmetry or deficiency they deem to have cosmetically corrected.

02:51:23.000 And some of them, they're just punching their face essentially before they go out at nighttime to get like a temporary pump in their cheeks.

02:51:32.000 So like think about back in the day when you went to the club and you're like, I want to hit push-ups first.

02:51:37.000 Oh my God.

02:51:37.000 Yeah.

02:51:38.000 So it's like you're laughing and they're probably like, bro, it's the same thing.

02:51:42.000 You're fucking punching your cheekbones to get them stick out more.

02:51:45.000 Oh, God, it's so dumb.

02:51:47.000 There's so much out there, man.

02:51:49.000 Yeah.

02:51:50.000 Listen, man, this is great.

02:51:51.000 Congratulations on this.

02:51:53.000 So for everybody that wants to buy it, Gorilla Mind, I've been drinking it for two hours now, three almost.

02:51:58.000 It's great.

02:51:59.000 Works.

02:52:00.000 I feel like I haven't had a cup of coffee in the entire podcast.

02:52:00.000 No, thanks.

02:52:03.000 That's unusual for me.

02:52:05.000 But it tastes good, too.

02:52:06.000 How many flavors you got?

02:52:08.000 A lot, man.

02:52:09.000 15 plus.

02:52:10.000 15?

02:52:10.000 We're going to narrow it down to the best ones, though, to really dial in the catalog.

02:52:15.000 If somebody wants to buy this, order it.

02:52:17.000 Where's it at?

02:52:19.000 Gorillamind.com.

02:52:20.000 We're in GNCs, vitamin shops across the country.

02:52:24.000 We're going to be in Circle K soon and soon to be more spots, hopefully.

02:52:29.000 Congratulations on that.

02:52:30.000 And for everything else that you do, Gorillamind.com.

02:52:33.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:52:34.000 And Americalth.com if you want to get preventative medicine, expert oversight when it comes to diagnostics, optimization, etc.

02:52:41.000 All right, brother.

02:52:42.000 Well, it's always good to hang out with you.

02:52:43.000 Thanks for having me, man.

02:52:44.000 My pleasure.

02:52:45.000 My pleasure.

02:52:45.000 And again, congratulations.

02:52:46.000 This is legit.

02:52:48.000 I'm going to buy it.

02:52:49.000 All right.

02:52:49.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - December 02, 2025

Joe Rogan Experience #2421 - Derek, More Plates More Dates

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Summary

Transcript