The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2426

00:00:03.000 The Joe Rogan experience.

00:00:06.000 Train my day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

00:00:12.000 Hey.

00:00:12.000 We're live?

00:00:13.000 Hey.

00:00:14.000 Gentlemen, what's happening?

00:00:15.000 What is going to see you?

00:00:17.000 Good to see you guys again.

00:00:18.000 Bo Hunting Brothers.

00:00:19.000 Yeah, we're just talking about the mountain lion that we have in the lobby and how insane that thing is.

00:00:24.000 So Adam, you shot that mountain lion when?

00:00:27.000 I think it was about six or seven years ago now.

00:00:29.000 And you ate it and I ate some of it.

00:00:30.000 You sent some to me.

00:00:32.000 It's really good, believe it or not, ladies and gentlemen.

00:00:34.000 You wouldn't think so, but it's incredible.

00:00:36.000 Everybody says it's like, the way they describe it is like a, I think Renella said this, a superior pork.

00:00:42.000 Yeah.

00:00:43.000 It's like, I think of it as a cross between venison and chicken.

00:00:47.000 And then, and I only did it quick on the barbecue and I'm not a great cook, but it was that tender and that tasty.

00:00:53.000 But the story behind the mountain lion's nuts.

00:00:55.000 Like that was like a murderous mountain lion.

00:00:58.000 It was, I felt a bit funny about it to start with because like the dogs do all the hunting, right?

00:01:04.000 The dogs smell it, dogs find it.

00:01:07.000 They put it up in a tree, but the further I looked into it, I'm like, well, you need the tree because you want to sex it and you want to age it.

00:01:13.000 You know, you want to make sure it's a lion that's, you know, old and it has to be a male to shoot it in Colorado, at least at the time you had to anyway.

00:01:20.000 So it was actually the perfect way to hunt.

00:01:22.000 But then seeing how destructive that individual lion was at least, I was telling Cam about this when we got here that it must have grabbed the cow like a beef cow.

00:01:33.000 It must have grabbed it on the neck and the cow couldn't move, you know, but it was still fully alive internally and vocally.

00:01:41.000 It was still alive.

00:01:42.000 And when we got there, the mountain lion was like eating it from its rear inn and it had been there for at least an hour or two because there was quite a lot of meat that had been eaten out from the cow's ass.

00:01:55.000 It was kicking its hooves.

00:01:57.000 Yeah, and it just, but the cow couldn't get up.

00:01:59.000 So it was literally eating it while it was still alive.

00:02:02.000 And as the dogs were running down there, you could hear this cow off in the distance just like screaming, like mooing flat out.

00:02:10.000 And you could tell something was wrong.

00:02:11.000 The dogs got there, the lion ran off.

00:02:14.000 We end up calling the rancher in.

00:02:16.000 The rancher come out, put the cow out of its misery, still screaming on the ground right in front of me.

00:02:21.000 Hey, I was teared up.

00:02:22.000 Like, you know, like, I don't like suffering like the next person.

00:02:27.000 So it was a very horrible moment.

00:02:28.000 So then it was like, now I'm into it.

00:02:31.000 Like, now I'm into finding this lion.

00:02:34.000 It's like a werewolf's loose in your town.

00:02:37.000 You know, having it, that, how much did that cat weigh, by the way?

00:02:41.000 By the way, I held it up for size and I could hold it for maybe 30 seconds and I literally couldn't hold it up anymore.

00:02:51.000 And I was trying to show the size of, you know, how big that lion was.

00:02:54.000 It looks like it's at least 150 pounds.

00:02:56.000 It's giant.

00:02:56.000 So it's like 170.

00:02:58.000 That's what you think it would be on the paw, I guess.

00:03:01.000 As it were.

00:03:02.000 Yeah, live.

00:03:03.000 Yeah, that's a big animal.

00:03:05.000 We were standing out in front of it, like going, imagine if this thing jumped on you.

00:03:08.000 It's a living monster.

00:03:10.000 It is a monster.

00:03:10.000 It's a real monster.

00:03:12.000 And he's like, oh, they kill their animal, their prey first.

00:03:16.000 No, they don't just make sure it doesn't move anymore.

00:03:18.000 Yeah, just whatever's good for eating.

00:03:19.000 Apparently, they'll just start eating it.

00:03:21.000 Whatever's good for eating, it's on.

00:03:23.000 We're the only thing that has compassion in the wild.

00:03:26.000 You know, like the putting out of the misery like the rancher did.

00:03:29.000 You know, that's one thing about hunters, ranchers.

00:03:32.000 We do appreciate life and death.

00:03:33.000 And there is a time where, hey, let's put it out of its misery.

00:03:36.000 But it's, yeah, it's man is the only one who thinks about that.

00:03:41.000 An animal, they'll just start eating.

00:03:42.000 They could care less about, they don't even know about pain, really, or being merciful or anything like that.

00:03:48.000 It's just what we do.

00:03:49.000 Yeah, I always say like the line in Africa, like it drives a zebra across the back end and the zebra gets away and it's just got like blood pouring out of it and it's got this horrible wound that it's going to have to live with.

00:04:02.000 That lion has not lost any sleep over that ever in its life.

00:04:07.000 It's not even a thought.

00:04:09.000 It's just fascinating that all these different creatures exist with us because we're so insulated for the most part.

00:04:16.000 Like most people are so insulated living in cities, traveling on buses and planes and cars and never, never seeing a thing like this in real life.

00:04:27.000 And you realize like at the same time where you're going to Starbucks and you know, you're picking out the new iPhone, there's a lion running full speed at a herd of zebras right now.

00:04:39.000 Like right now in the world, there's a lion full speed at the zebra and it's going to tackle it.

00:04:45.000 It's going to grab it by its face.

00:04:47.000 And all these animals exist to keep each other in check.

00:04:51.000 That's the real beauty of nature.

00:04:53.000 And you really see it when we saw that.

00:04:56.000 We were out yesterday, Cam and I were.

00:04:58.000 We were hunting for pigs and we saw a feral cat make a pounce on a mouse.

00:05:03.000 Like we were in the perfect, it was one of the coolest things.

00:05:05.000 Because even though, like, it's a kitty cat, like a little tiny kitty cat, little, it was fluffy too.

00:05:10.000 It was kind of cute.

00:05:12.000 We watched a predator in the rare moment when you see him executing a kill.

00:05:17.000 I mean, it was only a feral cat, but it was still.

00:05:20.000 We saw his little butt wiggle.

00:05:22.000 We saw that thing that they do with the thing and then up in the air.

00:05:25.000 We're like, that is cool.

00:05:27.000 It was so wild.

00:05:28.000 And that's going on multiple places throughout on our planet right now.

00:05:32.000 You know, right now, as you said.

00:05:34.000 Everywhere.

00:05:35.000 It's like if you could have like zoom in on a little camera, all these little interactions of predator prey or, I mean, that's happening.

00:05:35.000 Yeah.

00:05:42.000 Well, if you could see it all at once, like if there was a camera on every single predator-prey encounter simultaneously in the world and it was broadcast on a screen that was like 700 feet high, you'd think, oh my God, we're at war.

00:05:56.000 There's a war in the natural world.

00:05:58.000 It's a constant war.

00:06:00.000 Just cats alone.

00:06:02.000 Have you ever seen the numbers of what feral cats alone, just house cats kill?

00:06:06.000 It's literally in the billions in North America.

00:06:10.000 Billions every year.

00:06:11.000 Non-stop killing.

00:06:12.000 But imagine how many rats there would be if the cats weren't out.

00:06:15.000 Yeah, 100%.

00:06:16.000 Like it's all, there's a balance to it all.

00:06:18.000 Oh my God, these cats are killing everything.

00:06:20.000 Right.

00:06:21.000 Imagine how many fucking mice would be out there if there weren't cats.

00:06:25.000 Yeah, that's true.

00:06:26.000 It's all balance.

00:06:27.000 Yeah.

00:06:27.000 But to Adam's point about his lion in Colorado, it's so managed.

00:06:34.000 That animal actually probably could have been killed off like because it was killing livestock.

00:06:42.000 Yeah.

00:06:43.000 But when you kill a lion in Colorado, it's very detailed, very documented and tracked.

00:06:49.000 It's like you can only take, like in the unit I was hunting lion, I didn't kill one, but you could only kill 35 in the year.

00:06:55.000 And every time a lion comes in, they catalog it, check it, get it, you know, all the information in there.

00:07:02.000 And then that's one of the 35.

00:07:04.000 Once you reach 35 quota, you're done.

00:07:06.000 You're done.

00:07:07.000 Let's put this in perspective because if that doesn't happen, and by the way, all that money goes back to the state, goes to game wardens, it helps everybody, helps conservation.

00:07:15.000 If you don't have that, you know what you have?

00:07:17.000 You have what's going on in Japan, where Japan is having massive brown bear attacks.

00:07:23.000 So just last year, they had a kill.

00:07:26.000 I think it was 1,000, it's at least 1,000.

00:07:30.000 I think it was more than 1,000 bears last year.

00:07:33.000 And this year is projected to be even higher than last year.

00:07:36.000 So the bears at the fucking military has to go in and they're having a war on giant brown bears.

00:07:43.000 That are killing, I don't know how many people already this year.

00:07:45.000 A shit ton.

00:07:46.000 Yeah.

00:07:47.000 A shit ton.

00:07:48.000 Let me put that into perplexity, our sponsor.

00:07:51.000 How many people have been killed in Japan by grizzly bears?

00:07:55.000 Well, they're not grizzly bears, but they're essentially brown bears.

00:07:57.000 They're a brown bear, yeah.

00:07:57.000 Yeah, brown bear.

00:07:59.000 Record surge of brown bear attacks in 2025 with at least 13 fatalities and over 200 injuries.

00:08:05.000 Holy fuck!

00:08:07.000 Making it the deadliest year for bear attacks in recent history.

00:08:10.000 Majority of fatal attacks have occurred in Hokkaido, Hokkaido, where brown bears are more prevalent and the number of attacks has prompted emergency responses, including the deployment of military personnel in some regions.

00:08:24.000 Dude, I've been hearing people in Montana and people in Wyoming that have been saying, We're seeing more brown bears than ever before.

00:08:32.000 Guys are going on elk hunts and get it freaked out.

00:08:34.000 And they're like, They have to delist these fucking things.

00:08:37.000 Like, they are totally fearless.

00:08:39.000 They have never been hunted, so they have no fear of humans.

00:08:43.000 How many guys have you heard where the gun goes off and the bear shows up after the gun goes off because it knows that the elk is down or the moose is down?

00:08:52.000 Like a dinner bell.

00:08:54.000 I flew into Haikaido.

00:08:55.000 Japan had a period where they would let foreigners hunt, and it had to be with a bow.

00:09:01.000 And I was chasing seeker stags over there.

00:09:04.000 And I had no idea they had a brown bear at all.

00:09:08.000 And I was going through this big reedy area, like, you know, the reeds are up above your head.

00:09:13.000 And there was just a game trail going in there, like that the deer had been using.

00:09:18.000 And as I was going through that, I could see that it was starting to open up a little bit more, like a flattened-out section, maybe like where the deer had been bedded.

00:09:26.000 And I got in there, and there was a seeker deer, just like the rib cage all chewed out.

00:09:31.000 And it was just a big, muddy clearing where this brown bear had got in there and just like rolled around with this carcass.

00:09:38.000 But the prints in the mud were like that.

00:09:41.000 I had no idea.

00:09:42.000 Like, I had no idea there was even bears there.

00:09:44.000 So, what year is this?

00:09:47.000 It'd have to be 10 or 11 years ago now.

00:09:49.000 But Google is still around, right?

00:09:51.000 Yeah.

00:09:51.000 You didn't check?

00:09:52.000 You didn't go, hey, what's in the area?

00:09:54.000 I don't even want to be.

00:09:55.000 He started messaging the outfitter and being like, dude, there's bears here.

00:10:00.000 Look at that bear.

00:10:01.000 Yeah.

00:10:01.000 And then he started telling me that it's some of the biggest brown bears there is.

00:10:07.000 Bro, that bear fucked up that guy's hood.

00:10:09.000 That's a big bear.

00:10:11.000 But the police force, because I believe there was an unarmed police force at the time, they had an issue with a bear where it had killed two hunters there.

00:10:20.000 And he had to go in and shoot this bear.

00:10:22.000 He had photos on a tractor.

00:10:24.000 And I don't do the gruesome photos, but he's just flicking through his phone.

00:10:28.000 And the next photo is a guy with his face missing from this brown bear attack.

00:10:34.000 And another photo, the bear, when he went in to shoot the bear, the bear was in a stream holding the guy down in the water, eating him in the water.

00:10:44.000 And it's like, so, yeah, pretty gruesome.

00:10:46.000 So it's pretty full on.

00:10:47.000 But up until that point, I'd never even knew there was a brown bear in Japan.

00:10:51.000 Bro, before you go someplace with a bow, that makes sense.

00:10:54.000 Do a cursory internet search.

00:10:57.000 You know, even if they're like, come on.

00:10:58.000 You guys have the internet.

00:10:59.000 Shut the fuck up.

00:11:00.000 You tell me some Starlink things going by.

00:11:04.000 They're way behind in Australia.

00:11:06.000 You guys talk about that one.

00:11:07.000 Come on.

00:11:08.000 He just got the internet.

00:11:09.000 This guy is a traveling bow hunter, and he doesn't check to see if there's enormous monster romance of the unknown.

00:11:16.000 Oh, that's cute.

00:11:17.000 That's cute.

00:11:18.000 There's plenty of unknown out there.

00:11:20.000 You know, you don't need to add to it.

00:11:24.000 It's all disappearing.

00:11:25.000 All unknowns disappear because of the internet.

00:11:27.000 A little bit.

00:11:28.000 Another layer to that Japan story is the reason why they have to deploy the military is because all the hunters are aging out.

00:11:34.000 So there were hunters there, but because hunting is kind of like this dying thing for this next generation, there's not enough hunters.

00:11:42.000 So they have to get the military involved.

00:11:44.000 Otherwise, it would be hunters like, you know, you going over there.

00:11:47.000 They've talked about like, I mean, I know there's Americans who would volunteer to do it, but that's another part of it is this next generation just isn't hunting.

00:11:56.000 I have another question.

00:11:57.000 Jamie, put this into perplexity, please.

00:11:59.000 How many mountain lions were killed with depredation tags in 2024 in California?

00:12:06.000 Because what I had read on a forum, so it has to be correct, because those guys are all experts.

00:12:12.000 Oh, yeah.

00:12:13.000 I had read that an equal number of mountain lions had been killed with depredation tags by like experts with dogs, like to bring them in, than if they had given tags out.

00:12:25.000 So if they had given tags out and let people mountain lion hunt, you would have the exact same amount of mountain lions that they had to kill.

00:12:32.000 And instead of that, you would have revenue.

00:12:35.000 Yeah, instead of paying the opposite.

00:12:37.000 Right.

00:12:38.000 And the collection of the meat also.

00:12:38.000 Instead of paying.

00:12:39.000 All right, California's not yet published a full 2025 total, but the best available data as of July 2025 shows at least 167 mountain lions reported taken under depredation permits in 2020 and 166 in 2022 with annual totals of over 100 in recent years.

00:12:56.000 So every year they have to kill at least 100 mountain lions.

00:13:00.000 Yeah.

00:13:01.000 Probably quite a bit more.

00:13:02.000 It looks like 67 more, 66 more.

00:13:06.000 And I would say it's only went up since then.

00:13:08.000 Yeah, well, the thing is, like, they're doing nothing to curb the population.

00:13:12.000 And this is the thing is, like, people go, oh, it's okay.

00:13:15.000 Let nature do its thing.

00:13:16.000 No, it doesn't do its thing.

00:13:17.000 It kills your dog.

00:13:18.000 One of the things they found out in San Francisco in the Bay Area was when they do shoot these mountain lions, they've done an analysis of their diet.

00:13:18.000 Okay.

00:13:26.000 It's 50% dogs and cats.

00:13:28.000 Wow.

00:13:28.000 50% of their diet is eating people's pets.

00:13:31.000 So they're hunting people's pets.

00:13:33.000 That means you are, if you're a dog lover, you're allowing a monster to eat your dog because you think that's the right thing to do and to be kind with nature.

00:13:45.000 No, you have to hunt them.

00:13:46.000 You have to get them the fuck away from you and keep a healthy population of them.

00:13:50.000 And if you don't do that, it comes back to bite you in the dick.

00:13:54.000 Here's one other search, Jamie.

00:13:56.000 Can you see how many mountain lions were taken in Oregon legally?

00:13:59.000 Because that would be like Oregon's, of course, just right north of California.

00:14:03.000 Let's compare the legal harvest in a state that we can't use dogs, but you can kill them when you see them.

00:14:11.000 And you can buy a tag in the season.

00:14:12.000 Well, it's very difficult to kill them, right?

00:14:14.000 If you can't use dogs?

00:14:16.000 To do that, they have to have the season open all year, and they just hope enough are getting killed, but then they still have to kill depredation.

00:14:23.000 And is that a situation where you buy like a mountain lion tag, like just an extra tag, and you just have it just in case you run into one?

00:14:30.000 So if you're out in the wilderness and you're hunting elk, but you have a mountain lion tag.

00:14:34.000 Yeah, that's it.

00:14:35.000 So we were hoping, you know, if you see one, basically I have a bear tag, lion tag, deer and elk.

00:14:42.000 It says Oregon kills far more cougars each year than California, but those Oregon numbers come mainly from sport hunting and agency control, not from depredation tags.

00:14:51.000 Oh, wait a minute.

00:14:52.000 Agency control is what we're looking at, not depredation.

00:14:56.000 So what is the numbers here?

00:14:57.000 160.

00:14:58.000 Reword the question.

00:14:59.000 Yeah, let's reword the question and ask how many were killed in California from agency control.

00:15:07.000 Put that in there.

00:15:08.000 How many mountain lions were killed in California through agency control?

00:15:17.000 Because we were just looking at depredation tags, which is like what a hunter or excuse me, a farmer gets.

00:15:22.000 So it says in Oregon that we could kill 970, but they never kill that many.

00:15:28.000 Okay, they did not publish a Queen State White tally labeled specifically as agency control mountain lion kills.

00:15:35.000 And current official tables group most lethal removals under depredation permits rather than separate agency control category.

00:15:43.000 As a result, there's no single publicly available number that states how many mountain lions were killed through agency control alone.

00:15:50.000 Let's just put this in.

00:15:52.000 How many mountain lions were killed in California in 2024?

00:15:57.000 Just period.

00:15:58.000 Let's just ask that question.

00:16:00.000 Yeah.

00:16:00.000 I don't even know where we get this data.

00:16:03.000 I don't know.

00:16:05.000 It'd have to be fish and game.

00:16:20.000 That doesn't make any sense.

00:16:21.000 Oh, so they're saying this figure does not include deaths from vehicles, but that's not true because they just said earlier that it was 1480 depredation incidents.

00:16:33.000 And 222 depredation permits.

00:16:36.000 Out of those permits, 52 authorized lethal take and 20 mountain lines were actually reported as lethally taken on depredation permits.

00:16:43.000 That's weird.

00:16:44.000 This is totally different numbers than it was given us before.

00:16:46.000 So now it's only saying it was 52 authorized lethal ones.

00:16:51.000 Yeah.

00:16:52.000 Huh.

00:16:53.000 I don't know.

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00:18:33.000 I think it says, oh, say, okay, it says of the permits, 52 were authorized to kill them.

00:18:38.000 So it says lethal take.

00:18:40.000 So it's authorized to kill them, and 20 were actually reported as lethally killed.

00:18:44.000 So they're saying it's only 20.

00:18:46.000 That seems cool.

00:18:47.000 But that is, that's for like a ranch owner to do the killing?

00:18:52.000 Okay.

00:18:52.000 So they say, hey, this lion's been killing my calves 480 times.

00:18:57.000 And 222 of those, they said, okay, go ahead and kill the lion.

00:19:01.000 Okay, right.

00:19:01.000 So this is permits that were released rather than the agency doing the depredation work.

00:19:06.000 Right.

00:19:06.000 So you would add this total to the other number we have.

00:19:10.000 Right, because the depredation thing, too, you got to think it's ranchers, right?

00:19:14.000 So these guys are all out in the middle of nowhere.

00:19:16.000 A lot of the depredations, though, that they might be listing is what we're talking about with San Francisco, where they found that they're eating people's cats and dogs.

00:19:24.000 So maybe they get depredations.

00:19:26.000 It's not like, but you can't give it out to the fucking homeowner.

00:19:29.000 No.

00:19:30.000 So you only give those tags out to ranchers, it seems like.

00:19:34.000 To people that have livestock that's.

00:19:35.000 And the rest of the depredation is probably done by some sort of a government guy.

00:19:39.000 Yeah.

00:19:40.000 They would call it something other than depredation.

00:19:42.000 You think he uses dogs?

00:19:43.000 How do you think they get them?

00:19:44.000 Yeah, or snare.

00:19:46.000 Like in Oregon, Wayne has done this where people, they're losing their goats, their calves, something like sheep, something like that.

00:19:55.000 And then they'll let you snare it.

00:19:58.000 So you can go in there, you take pictures of the animals that are killed.

00:20:01.000 And another...

00:20:02.000 Snaring is brutal.

00:20:04.000 Yeah.

00:20:05.000 Or trap.

00:20:06.000 Trap.

00:20:08.000 It's a foothold.

00:20:09.000 Yeah.

00:20:10.000 In Texas, they treat them like coyotes.

00:20:12.000 Yeah.

00:20:12.000 You just whack them.

00:20:14.000 Yeah.

00:20:15.000 Well.

00:20:15.000 I think that's the way to go because I think they're so hard to see.

00:20:18.000 They're so hard to find.

00:20:20.000 Different politics.

00:20:21.000 I've seen maybe two in all the hunting that I've done, just naturally in the wild.

00:20:26.000 And you would have seen more, but it's not a big number.

00:20:29.000 They're out there, but they're just so sneaky right now.

00:20:31.000 Oh, they're so fucking sneaky.

00:20:32.000 We saw one.

00:20:33.000 We saw the one in Utah with Colton.

00:20:33.000 I told you the story.

00:20:35.000 Yeah, a huge one.

00:20:36.000 Like that one.

00:20:37.000 He was like as big as yours.

00:20:38.000 It was fucking terrifying.

00:20:40.000 Inside of a car, 30 yards away, and I'm shitting my pants.

00:20:44.000 I'm not even.

00:20:45.000 Yeah.

00:20:46.000 And we're armed.

00:20:47.000 And we have bows.

00:20:50.000 The difference between Oregon and California and Texas, Texas being able to shoot them like coyotes, is that's politics.

00:20:56.000 Of course, the West Coast is liberal.

00:20:58.000 Well, Utah changed it, though.

00:21:00.000 Utah has it now like coyotes.

00:21:02.000 Perfect.

00:21:02.000 Yeah.

00:21:03.000 That's how it should be.

00:21:04.000 I think there has to be management behind it.

00:21:06.000 I don't even know if you have to have a tag in Utah anymore.

00:21:09.000 Let's find out.

00:21:11.000 Put that search in.

00:21:12.000 Do you need a tag to get to hunt mountain lion in Utah?

00:21:16.000 Maybe they just give out over-the-counter tags to anybody who wants them and they're still collecting revenue, which is ideal.

00:21:21.000 That's the best way to do it.

00:21:23.000 And if the numbers are great enough, but Texas doesn't even do that.

00:21:27.000 They go, no, we don't want to get involved.

00:21:29.000 You go ahead and shoot them.

00:21:31.000 And it's a fucking monster in your backyard.

00:21:33.000 Yeah.

00:21:34.000 This is coming from someone who loves them.

00:21:36.000 Yeah.

00:21:36.000 I love them.

00:21:37.000 I love them.

00:21:38.000 They're amazing.

00:21:39.000 Okay.

00:21:39.000 Yes, you must have a valid Utah hunting or combination hunting fishing license to hunt mountain lions, but you do not need a separate cougar tag.

00:21:46.000 Okay, so it is like a coyote.

00:21:48.000 Yeah, so it's year-round harvest for licensed hunters, and you just have to get it checked in after you kill.

00:21:52.000 Right.

00:21:53.000 Within 48 hours.

00:21:54.000 Which is also smart.

00:21:55.000 Yeah.

00:21:56.000 Because they want to know what it's needing.

00:21:57.000 And that's how you do it.

00:21:59.000 That's how you do it.

00:21:59.000 Utah, way to go.

00:22:00.000 Good job, you know.

00:22:01.000 That's the right way to do it.

00:22:02.000 And of course, you should have a hunting license.

00:22:04.000 I think you have to have one in Texas as well to hunt anything.

00:22:07.000 This talking about this.

00:22:09.000 Actually, that's not true, right?

00:22:10.000 What?

00:22:11.000 No, I'm thinking that.

00:22:12.000 No, I think in Texas, you don't even need a hunting license to hunt exotics.

00:22:15.000 No, not if they're on a private.

00:22:17.000 I think you just go hunt them.

00:22:17.000 Right.

00:22:19.000 Right.

00:22:19.000 Yeah.

00:22:20.000 Okay.

00:22:22.000 Talking about politics in different areas, it reminds me of in BC, they outlawed grizzly hunting.

00:22:28.000 And just recently, maybe last week, you know, a grizzly attacked a school group.

00:22:34.000 Oh, I've read about that.

00:22:35.000 See that?

00:22:36.000 That's another thing.

00:22:37.000 So we're in the cities who control a lot of the voting power of the, that's a province, but states here is that the cities determine it.

00:22:46.000 And people living in the cities don't know what the fuck's going on in the wilderness.

00:22:49.000 Oh, I love lions.

00:22:49.000 So they vote.

00:22:51.000 I love grizzly bear.

00:22:52.000 I love wolves.

00:22:53.000 We need to have more of them.

00:22:54.000 Meanwhile, the people out in the mountains are actually dealing with this shit.

00:22:58.000 And so Vancouver, you know, if we're talking BC specifically, Vancouver pretty much makes the decisions for British Columbia.

00:23:06.000 They said no more grizzly hunting.

00:23:08.000 And now it's just, you know, grizzly bear out of control.

00:23:11.000 Did you ever meet my friend Mike Hockridge?

00:23:12.000 Yeah, we went to dinner at after a fight once.

00:23:15.000 That's right, one of the steakhouses in Vegas, right?

00:23:17.000 Mike's great.

00:23:18.000 And he and Ben O'Brien took me on a moose hunt once.

00:23:21.000 And he was telling me that this was before the grizzly bear ban.

00:23:26.000 He was like, there's so many of them.

00:23:28.000 And he had to shoot one from six feet away.

00:23:31.000 One was breaking into a cabin and he had to shoot it from six feet away.

00:23:36.000 Like, they're terrifying up there.

00:23:38.000 Yeah.

00:23:39.000 They have so many of them.

00:23:40.000 And they have wolves everywhere.

00:23:43.000 We stumbled on a wolf kill.

00:23:45.000 We got there, you know, it was probably a day old.

00:23:49.000 But it was nothing but hair.

00:23:49.000 I don't know.

00:23:51.000 That was the thing that shocked me.

00:23:52.000 It was a moose calf.

00:23:55.000 And there was nothing but hair.

00:23:57.000 That was what was weird.

00:23:58.000 It's like I didn't anticipate seeing so much hair.

00:24:01.000 Like the moose hair was everywhere.

00:24:04.000 Just everywhere.

00:24:04.000 I thought it'd be like a dead animal, but it was just basically bones.

00:24:08.000 And there was like a tiny bit of meat on, you know, corners of the bones and hair everywhere.

00:24:15.000 It was just like they're like, pat.

00:24:15.000 Yeah.

00:24:17.000 Like they're like, just tearing into this moose calf and coughing up hair.

00:24:22.000 Yeah.

00:24:22.000 I didn't see one when I was up there.

00:24:24.000 Although I think we did see one in the distance when we were at John and Jen's place.

00:24:29.000 We saw one we thought it was a bear or we thought it was a wolf run across the road.

00:24:33.000 I was either with you or I was with Ben.

00:24:35.000 I don't remember who it was, but I've never seen a wolf in the wild.

00:24:35.000 Yeah.

00:24:38.000 Like a real, like absolute look at him.

00:24:40.000 Holy shit.

00:24:40.000 It's a wolf.

00:24:41.000 Yeah.

00:24:42.000 They look at you in a certain way, eh?

00:24:44.000 Oh, bro.

00:24:45.000 One of the first trips I ever did to Canada was up in Northwest Territories.

00:24:50.000 And I actually thought it was caribou coming down the river, like just the color of the wolves, similar to a caribou.

00:24:56.000 And then I worked out there wolves.

00:24:58.000 And the guy that I was with, he's like, oh, it's a pack of wolves.

00:25:00.000 And I'm like, can I call them in?

00:25:02.000 And he's.

00:25:02.000 Oh, God.

00:25:03.000 Adam Greentree, what's wrong with that?

00:25:04.000 He's like, yeah.

00:25:05.000 And then I got up against a tree and I just started doing like a call that I'd do for like a fox or a wild dog back in Australia.

00:25:12.000 And this whole pack come in.

00:25:13.000 Like a wounded rabbit.

00:25:14.000 You'd never seen them come in.

00:25:16.000 They were like up in our vision up there.

00:25:18.000 Yeah, like a rabbit called distressed rabbit.

00:25:20.000 And the next minute, they was just like, they were fully surrounding us and just come in.

00:25:25.000 Yeah, it was freaking cool.

00:25:26.000 But I just remember they could fully see me at that point and they were still just like looking through me.

00:25:32.000 And I was like, yeah, that's sick.

00:25:33.000 Bro, you ever heard Dudley's story?

00:25:35.000 When Dudley, Dudley and some guy that he was with in BC, I think it was BC, I'm pretty sure.

00:25:42.000 No, it was Alberta.

00:25:44.000 They killed a, I think it was a, I think it was an elk.

00:25:49.000 But when they killed it, they killed it essentially on top of where the wolves den, like right there.

00:25:56.000 And wolves started circling around them.

00:25:59.000 And the guide had like one round in his rifle.

00:26:03.000 And Dudley had like two arrows or three arrows left.

00:26:06.000 And they're surrounded by wolves.

00:26:08.000 And Dudley shot two of them with a bow and arrow.

00:26:10.000 And the guide shot one with a rifle.

00:26:13.000 They shot three wolves.

00:26:15.000 Three wolves.

00:26:17.000 He said there was like they were surrounding.

00:26:19.000 He said it was the freakiest fucking thing he's ever experienced.

00:26:22.000 Yeah, it wouldn't have been a great feeling.

00:26:23.000 He told the story on the podcast and it was just like, fuck that, man.

00:26:27.000 You only have two bullets, you fucking asshole.

00:26:30.000 Like, what is wrong with you?

00:26:31.000 Two bullets in one life.

00:26:32.000 What do you, what?

00:26:34.000 What the fuck are you doing, man?

00:26:36.000 You know there's wolves out there.

00:26:37.000 Killed a bull in New Mexico one year and I killed it late in the afternoon.

00:26:43.000 So we did a pack out.

00:26:45.000 This is just going back to the mountain lion story.

00:26:48.000 We did a pack out with meat, went back in in the dark with head torches.

00:26:52.000 And as we're walking in, I seen a couple of eyes or whatever, and it was just like deer, mule deer, or something like that.

00:26:58.000 And then I'm like, oh, there's another deer up in front of us.

00:27:01.000 And as we got closer, the eyes were too high.

00:27:04.000 And it's just like, no, that's not a deer.

00:27:07.000 And it was a mountain lion up in the tree.

00:27:09.000 Like, it was right up in the tree.

00:27:11.000 There was the kill there.

00:27:13.000 That lion stayed in the tree while we grabbed more meat and packed it out.

00:27:17.000 You grabbed his meat?

00:27:19.000 Yeah.

00:27:20.000 The mountain lion's meat?

00:27:21.000 Well, it was his kill.

00:27:22.000 It was your kill.

00:27:23.000 My kill.

00:27:24.000 And I was going back in for it and just thinking it was a set of deer eyes.

00:27:28.000 And as they're walking up, the eyes were like up in the tree.

00:27:31.000 And that's like, so I've only seen two.

00:27:34.000 That's one of them.

00:27:35.000 And it was in the dark.

00:27:36.000 And I swear, if it was daylight, I would have seen one in my whole entire hunting.

00:27:40.000 Did you see Cam's brother's story on Instagram?

00:27:43.000 Oh my God.

00:27:44.000 Cam's brother was running late at night in California at night in California.

00:27:49.000 And should we play it?

00:27:50.000 Yeah.

00:27:50.000 Did we ever play it on the show?

00:27:52.000 I think we might have.

00:27:53.000 We might have.

00:27:54.000 Yeah.

00:27:54.000 Did you?

00:27:54.000 Yeah.

00:27:55.000 I know you mentioned it.

00:27:57.000 Fucking terrifying.

00:27:59.000 Yeah.

00:28:00.000 It's terrifying.

00:28:01.000 I've never seen that in Australia, by the way.

00:28:03.000 What's your brother's name again?

00:28:04.000 Taylor.

00:28:05.000 It's like T-Spike.

00:28:06.000 Yeah.

00:28:07.000 Taylor.

00:28:07.000 So it's.

00:28:09.000 It's my stepdad and mom had two kids, Taylor and Megan.

00:28:14.000 Oh, those are my brothers, or brother and sister.

00:28:18.000 He does ultras, too.

00:28:19.000 Yeah, he's actually really good.

00:28:21.000 Really good.

00:28:22.000 He seemed like one of them dudes who had to get it in.

00:28:24.000 You know, he had to get it in at night.

00:28:27.000 He did a 300-mile race just last year.

00:28:30.000 He got competing, trying to win the thing, of course, but got second.

00:28:33.000 Wow.

00:28:34.000 The Arizona Monster 300.

00:28:36.000 Oh my God.

00:28:38.000 That hurts my hips and my joints just.

00:28:40.000 That's the level he's at.

00:28:42.000 300 miles or 300 kilometers?

00:28:44.000 That makes it so much worse.

00:28:44.000 Miles.

00:28:46.000 Are you thinking about kilometers?

00:28:49.000 I thought you're an American now.

00:28:50.000 Didn't we convert you?

00:28:52.000 We were trying to teach you inches the other night.

00:28:54.000 I got my lip for some reason.

00:28:55.000 That's an American thing.

00:28:57.000 You guys have to go to the house.

00:28:58.000 It's probably illegal over there.

00:29:00.000 Probably.

00:29:00.000 Yeah, they'll take it away.

00:29:01.000 The government's going to control it.

00:29:03.000 Yeah, how's that working out?

00:29:05.000 You can do that, but you have to wear a mask.

00:29:06.000 Did you find Taylor's video?

00:29:10.000 I think it's on his Instagram.

00:29:11.000 Yeah, it is.

00:29:12.000 It's definitely.

00:29:12.000 Didn't I send it to you at one point in time, maybe?

00:29:14.000 I just found a video of you talking about it.

00:29:16.000 Nah.

00:29:18.000 Unless he took it down.

00:29:19.000 I don't think he took it down.

00:29:20.000 What is his Instagram handle?

00:29:21.000 It's T-Spike, something like that.

00:29:23.000 T-Spike, something.

00:29:25.000 I'll find it.

00:29:26.000 T-Spike, 300 miles.

00:29:29.000 Coming in second place in 300 miles is nuts.

00:29:33.000 And meanwhile, how much difference was there between him and number one?

00:29:36.000 I think a couple hours, probably.

00:29:38.000 Oh, God.

00:29:39.000 That's insane.

00:29:40.000 but it took a oh god I think he did it in 88 hours.

00:29:45.000 That is nuts.

00:29:46.000 That's a serious effort.

00:29:48.000 That is a serious effort.

00:29:50.000 There's some freaks out there for sure.

00:29:51.000 I'll do it one day.

00:29:52.000 He's one of them.

00:29:53.000 Are you going to do it one day for real?

00:29:54.000 Yeah.

00:29:54.000 T-Spike 2.

00:29:55.000 A couple more videos.

00:29:57.000 What, Jamie?

00:29:58.000 I don't know where the video is.

00:29:59.000 Okay, I'll find it.

00:30:00.000 I'll find it.

00:30:00.000 Yeah, it's me talking about it.

00:30:02.000 That's fucked.

00:30:03.000 Oh, he must have reshared that or something.

00:30:05.000 I found it right away.

00:30:05.000 Here it is.

00:30:07.000 It's just his face when you see his face staring at the camera.

00:30:10.000 It says lion.

00:30:11.000 Oh, you got it?

00:30:12.000 It says lion update.

00:30:12.000 Okay.

00:30:13.000 Yeah, this is it.

00:30:14.000 Give me some volume.

00:30:15.000 After a restless night of this recurring dream of these green eyes hot on my tail, I was coming down the trail last night, just after dark, and I see these green eyes off to the side of the trail.

00:30:28.000 I mean, right on the side of the trail.

00:30:30.000 What I thought was a coyote, I just kind of yelled, and then when it stood up, I realized it was a fucking mountain lion.

00:30:37.000 I took off running as hard as I could, and I looked over my shoulder, and it was right behind me.

00:30:44.000 I ran for probably 100 yards and realized it wasn't giving up, and I turned around and I kicked rocks, and I jumped up and down, and I screamed at the top of my lungs, and this thing did not care.

00:30:55.000 I did that a few times to the point that at one point I almost thought, I'm just going to lay down here and die because I'm not going to outrun this fucking thing.

00:31:07.000 Another time it got really close to me, and I thought I had no choice but to try to scare it.

00:31:12.000 And I turned and I screamed and I kicked rocks.

00:31:16.000 I mean, to the point it was, I mean, it was right, right there.

00:31:20.000 And I finally decided, well, you just got to run.

00:31:24.000 Run for your fucking life.

00:31:27.000 I've done some crazy shit in my life.

00:31:28.000 I've been pretty scared, but this, this was next level.

00:31:32.000 This was next level.

00:31:33.000 It terrified me.

00:31:36.000 You know, I think maybe if I'd had a gun, I could have done something.

00:31:40.000 Pepper spray.

00:31:41.000 I don't think it was so close that I would have probably pepper sprayed myself.

00:31:46.000 So I don't know.

00:31:49.000 I was a half mile from the city in Lake Forest, California.

00:31:53.000 I mean, like, straight up.

00:31:56.000 I could hear dogs barking.

00:31:57.000 And at one point, I thought maybe that's what kind of detoured it, but personally didn't care.

00:32:05.000 So this morning I'm going to ride the bike.

00:32:08.000 Probably won't go back out there in the dark.

00:32:11.000 I did wait around for the sheriff's department and fishing game because there was other hikers on the trail that were above me that would have had to have come down.

00:32:20.000 And I just don't know how other people would have responded.

00:32:24.000 Like I said, I've done some scary shit.

00:32:26.000 I've been in the woods my whole life, but this was next level.

00:32:30.000 It was terrifying.

00:32:31.000 But I'm all good.

00:32:34.000 Back at it, right?

00:32:35.000 I guess if this only happens one time in your life, I got it out of the way.

00:32:39.000 I'm a lucky fucker.

00:32:41.000 Have a good day.

00:32:42.000 Doesn't work like that.

00:32:42.000 Keep at it.

00:32:47.000 That's wild.

00:32:48.000 That is the consequences of letting monsters live in your neighborhood.

00:32:51.000 Yeah.

00:32:52.000 That's real.

00:32:53.000 And all these wilderness-loving people, I guarantee you, you're not out there as much as that guy is.

00:32:59.000 I guarantee you, not out there as much as you are.

00:33:01.000 You are.

00:33:02.000 That's the difference between people that really understand what we're talking about and people that are looking at this from this knee-jerk love and compassion for nature perspective.

00:33:11.000 Well, back to what Cam said, it's like the majority of the votes are people that don't get in that environment.

00:33:17.000 Yeah.

00:33:17.000 You know, and it's not just about hunting.

00:33:19.000 That's for farmers anywhere as well.

00:33:21.000 There's people in the city that are making votes for people that live in the country and the lifestyle is completely different.

00:33:26.000 And they don't understand what they're talking about, especially the BC band.

00:33:29.000 Like, we're going to ban trophy hunting.

00:33:31.000 Trophy hunting's bad.

00:33:33.000 But what about monster control?

00:33:35.000 I'm on fucking team people, okay?

00:33:35.000 Isn't that good?

00:33:38.000 I love animals, but I am on team people.

00:33:41.000 Imagine if they knew how soft we were.

00:33:45.000 They don't have to spit out hair.

00:33:47.000 No.

00:33:48.000 The flesh is right here.

00:33:49.000 It's soft.

00:33:50.000 It's so easy to get.

00:33:51.000 Because they usually go in at the stomach, you know, or the ass.

00:33:55.000 It's like our stomach, how soft those are.

00:33:56.000 Straight up the dog and stuff.

00:33:58.000 Yeah, it's right to the good stuff.

00:33:59.000 Yeah, not good.

00:34:00.000 And it's like new.

00:34:02.000 I don't think people, like, even a dog can turn into like, I killed a buck, you know, before we went on that last hunt.

00:34:10.000 I killed a buck.

00:34:11.000 And like for the treat for the dog, you cut off the nuts, give them the nuts.

00:34:16.000 So it's got hide on it.

00:34:17.000 It's got the buck's nuts, basically.

00:34:20.000 Dog takes off.

00:34:21.000 They're just like ripping into it.

00:34:22.000 It's like delicacy, right?

00:34:24.000 That's just a normal dog.

00:34:26.000 So a lion who's born and bred to kill, I mean, that's just the level of what animals do.

00:34:35.000 Your liver is a ribeye and they haven't eaten in a week.

00:34:38.000 You're like, oh, baby.

00:34:40.000 Look at that liver.

00:34:41.000 It's right there.

00:34:44.000 Yeah.

00:34:45.000 And those dogs there at that deer camp.

00:34:49.000 You give them like part of the, I don't know, there's some skin.

00:34:53.000 It's not the flank stank, but it's just some skin there that sometimes you cut off that goes over the stomach and run off, eat pounds and pounds of meat.

00:35:03.000 A regular dog.

00:35:04.000 So a lion, yeah, they'll eat what they do is they just eat as much meat as they can and they just kind of lay around.

00:35:09.000 So that's the time to actually run from a lion is after a big meal.

00:35:14.000 You know what I mean?

00:35:14.000 Because their stomachs are full of meat.

00:35:16.000 Maybe that's why Taylor, maybe that lion that chased him had just killed a deer and was full of protein, but you know, they still hunt.

00:35:23.000 That's what they do.

00:35:24.000 It's their instinct.

00:35:25.000 But sometimes you can time it right and maybe that saves your life.

00:35:28.000 Yeah, geez.

00:35:30.000 That's not a risk we should be taking.

00:35:32.000 No.

00:35:32.000 This is if you can avoid it.

00:35:34.000 It's always a good thing.

00:35:34.000 This is the thing.

00:35:35.000 It's like they're so hard to find.

00:35:37.000 People don't understand.

00:35:38.000 You're not going to put a dent in their population.

00:35:40.000 This is not like any other.

00:35:42.000 It's not like deer.

00:35:43.000 You can depopulate a deer, like an environment of deer.

00:35:47.000 If you went crazy and hunted them all and you said, let's eradicate all the deer, every hunter, you can shoot as many deer as you want.

00:35:54.000 Just let's go do it right now.

00:35:56.000 You can get rid of all the deer.

00:35:57.000 You ain't ever doing that with cats.

00:35:59.000 Yeah.

00:35:59.000 They're too sneaky.

00:36:00.000 Not now.

00:36:01.000 Not now.

00:36:02.000 Even in Australia with buffalo, you can fly and eliminate a lot of stuff.

00:36:07.000 Pigs here, deer, buffalo down there, the water buffalo, but you're not doing helicopter killing of lions.

00:36:16.000 No.

00:36:17.000 You can do wolves.

00:36:18.000 You can do wolves.

00:36:18.000 They'll lower wolf populations that way.

00:36:20.000 And they do.

00:36:20.000 They do in some parts of the world.

00:36:22.000 They do in Alaska, right?

00:36:24.000 Yeah.

00:36:24.000 They do wolf kills from helicopters.

00:36:26.000 Yeah.

00:36:26.000 And yeah, I mean, lions are just tough.

00:36:29.000 But I didn't even realize this, but Oregon, as we were looking at those numbers that Jamie pulled up, Oregon, the goal is 970 lions a year, but we never get to it.

00:36:41.000 Right.

00:36:42.000 So what that means is we're not meeting our objective of lion kills.

00:36:46.000 That means there's more and more lions every year.

00:36:49.000 Don't they factor that into the amount of tags they give, though?

00:36:52.000 That there's going to be a limited amount of success.

00:36:53.000 So they'll give more tags than there will be, like, than they actually need to kill.

00:36:57.000 For lions or for lions to do that?

00:37:00.000 I mean, I'm not sure how they do it.

00:37:00.000 Oh, yeah.

00:37:02.000 It's supposed to be like a balance.

00:37:03.000 You know, I mean, if, but what happens is not enough lions are getting killed, so there's too many lions.

00:37:09.000 So that means the lions are killing too many deer.

00:37:12.000 No, because the lion number is too high.

00:37:15.000 Right.

00:37:15.000 And that's what's kind of happening.

00:37:16.000 There's areas in Oregon that were great hunting at one time that are terrible now.

00:37:22.000 Well, here's a perfect example.

00:37:23.000 Where I used to live in California, you guys have been in my house, a lot of land, a lot of woods, a lot of like, there's a lot of like wildlife out there.

00:37:30.000 Good luck finding a deer.

00:37:32.000 Oh, yeah.

00:37:33.000 You might find two, three in a month.

00:37:36.000 In a month.

00:37:36.000 I see deer every fucking day out here.

00:37:39.000 I see them every day.

00:37:40.000 No mountain lions and you could shoot them.

00:37:40.000 You know why?

00:37:42.000 California has a mountain lion problem.

00:37:46.000 Like it's a real problem.

00:37:48.000 Yeah.

00:37:48.000 The place, the Tojon Ranch, that place, they had a camera out in front of one of their ponds and they got 16 different mountain lions on Mount Cameron.

00:37:58.000 Yeah.

00:37:58.000 16.

00:37:59.000 And what the people in LA, they have no idea what's going on, but they're voting.

00:38:04.000 Right.

00:38:04.000 That's who controls what's starting with their hogs.

00:38:07.000 Yeah, they're voting.

00:38:08.000 Well, and they're good people.

00:38:09.000 And I would have voted with them.

00:38:10.000 Right.

00:38:11.000 Okay.

00:38:11.000 If I had never been hunting and never been in the woods, I would have voted with them.

00:38:15.000 Maybe not.

00:38:15.000 Maybe not because I'm a little fucking skeptical of people's wisdom.

00:38:20.000 And I probably would have looked into it a little bit and thought about what it'd be like to get eaten by a mountain lion and go, fuck, what the fuck are we talking about?

00:38:27.000 Kill these goddamn things.

00:38:29.000 Are you fucking crazy?

00:38:30.000 Don't kill them all.

00:38:31.000 You don't have to kill them all.

00:38:32.000 They're going to exist in the woods where they're supposed to be.

00:38:34.000 They're not supposed to be in Pasadena.

00:38:38.000 They're not supposed to be wandering around the fucking Hollywood Hills.

00:38:40.000 Like that one that I have the big picture of.

00:38:42.000 No.

00:38:42.000 That one's crazy.

00:38:44.000 That lion.

00:38:44.000 That picture is insane.

00:38:46.000 The Hollywood sign behind him, and he's wearing a collar.

00:38:46.000 Insane.

00:38:50.000 That picture to me embodies everything that's wrong with California.

00:38:53.000 Like, you know where he is, and he's in the neighborhood where people live.

00:38:57.000 And you just put a collar on him so you could track him when he's fucking killing dogs.

00:39:01.000 Like, what are you saying?

00:39:03.000 You know how many kids?

00:39:04.000 Look at that photo.

00:39:05.000 Yeah.

00:39:06.000 That is a sick photo.

00:39:07.000 That is an amazing.

00:39:08.000 That's one of the most amazing photos ever.

00:39:10.000 Ever taken.

00:39:11.000 As soon as I saw their photo, I'm like, oh my God, we have to buy a print.

00:39:14.000 What do you think he's thinking?

00:39:15.000 I ordered it from the photographer.

00:39:16.000 What is he thinking?

00:39:17.000 What am I going to kill next?

00:39:19.000 And why is this fucking thing on my neck?

00:39:22.000 That's right above where Huberman used to live.

00:39:25.000 Oh, dude, it's right there.

00:39:26.000 By the way, that's like, we filmed Fear Factor out there a bunch of times.

00:39:30.000 Yeah.

00:39:30.000 Look at that fucker.

00:39:32.000 Oh, my God.

00:39:32.000 Okay, I know.

00:39:33.000 Look at his face.

00:39:35.000 Imagine wandering into that.

00:39:36.000 That thing is so big.

00:39:38.000 How sick of a photo is that?

00:39:40.000 Amazing.

00:39:41.000 And it's all camera traps.

00:39:41.000 Yeah.

00:39:43.000 So, but here's what's so critical.

00:39:43.000 Yeah.

00:39:45.000 And, you know, hunters, we can be our own worst enemies.

00:39:49.000 But part of what discussions like this and talking about how it actually works is so important.

00:39:54.000 It's not for other hunters.

00:39:56.000 It's for people who don't hunt, who do vote.

00:39:58.000 You know, it's like, hey, let's just educate people who don't understand.

00:40:02.000 It's not your fault you don't understand.

00:40:04.000 You haven't hunted your whole life.

00:40:05.000 That's okay.

00:40:06.000 But just listen to what we're saying and just say, hey, when that vote comes up and it's like we're talking about being able to hunt lions with dogs or black bear with bait, let's think about, hey, there's repercussions if we don't allow this.

00:40:20.000 They just don't know what it is.

00:40:21.000 That sounds cruel.

00:40:23.000 Lions with dogs.

00:40:24.000 Like, oh, that's not even fair.

00:40:25.000 You want to hunt it with a spear.

00:40:28.000 If you want to hunt it like we used to hunt them, hunt it with a spear.

00:40:31.000 You're a bare hand.

00:40:32.000 No, bare hands is what I see.

00:40:34.000 Kill with your bare hands.

00:40:35.000 That's the dumbest argument.

00:40:38.000 That's the dumbest.

00:40:39.000 How do you think we got to the point where we don't have fangs, you fucking dolt?

00:40:42.000 And this we got there.

00:40:43.000 We evolved past that because we figured out weapons.

00:40:47.000 Okay.

00:40:48.000 And that's why we can't have cities.

00:40:50.000 Never kill shit with their hands.

00:40:52.000 At least they had a fucking wooden spear.

00:40:54.000 So what are you talking about, bare hands?

00:40:56.000 It's the dumbest fucking argument of all time.

00:40:58.000 And it's people that don't understand that we would have never had civilization if we didn't do this.

00:41:02.000 Exactly.

00:41:03.000 And that wouldn't exist.

00:41:04.000 The conversation doesn't come from a want perspective from me.

00:41:07.000 I've got no desire to hunt a mountain lion again.

00:41:10.000 I don't.

00:41:11.000 But as someone that's in the know, because I have before, you know, and I wanted to educate myself prior to that hunt, I was doing as much reading as I could to find out, do I feel good about this?

00:41:23.000 Yeah, so it's not like I want them still on the list to hunt because I want to go and do it again.

00:41:28.000 I don't have a desire to do that again myself.

00:41:30.000 But I do see that it's good management.

00:41:32.000 You know, and instead of them being culled and not utilized, you know, and it actually costing money, you know, there's money going into conservation at that point from the hunter and the meat's utilized.

00:41:44.000 You know, and as you mentioned, in that case, I gave that meat to a lot of people because I wanted people to see it as a food source as well.

00:41:52.000 You know, as in, because you do, you sort of think of a mountain lion.

00:41:55.000 You're like, the meat was amazing.

00:41:58.000 Some of the most incredible meat I've ever had.

00:41:59.000 Yeah, I mean, even if, so just say they didn't require you to take the meat and you didn't eat it, still they need to be killed.

00:42:08.000 That's all there is to it, just to make the deer and elk population, just to make it work like it has to work because humans, people will always say, well, mother nature will take care of itself.

00:42:17.000 It's like, no, humans have encroached on this habitat.

00:42:19.000 That's why we need to control this.

00:42:21.000 This isn't like the wide open West that it once was where, yeah, maybe it would work out eventually.

00:42:26.000 It's not going to work out.

00:42:28.000 They were here first.

00:42:30.000 They were here first.

00:42:31.000 We're part of the system.

00:42:32.000 100%.

00:42:33.000 Adam, you know, he said he's killed one.

00:42:35.000 He doesn't plan on killing another.

00:42:36.000 I've never killed one.

00:42:38.000 I've never killed a lion in my entire life, but I know it's important.

00:42:41.000 So it's not like I'm this big lion hunter that I just have this passion for doing and I want to kill as many as possible.

00:42:47.000 Never even killed one, but I know that we have to kill them.

00:42:50.000 And in Colorado there, that's one thing, you know, you talk about sexing the animal up on up in the tree because you can see what it is, male, female.

00:42:57.000 You don't, when I hunted them, I did hunt them.

00:43:00.000 I didn't kill, but you could kill any lion, essentially, if it didn't have, you know, it couldn't be a female with cubs, but uh, or kittens.

00:43:07.000 But you look at them in the tree and you can decide, oh, that's a female.

00:43:11.000 Probably not the best kill.

00:43:12.000 Let's kill an old male because it's just, that's how it just works better that way, taking old males out.

00:43:19.000 And but you can do that.

00:43:20.000 And same thing with baiting bear.

00:43:22.000 A bear comes in.

00:43:23.000 A bear is really tough to tell whether it's a boar or a sow.

00:43:26.000 That's male or female for those that don't know.

00:43:28.000 But at a bait, when you're looking very closely, you can see, oh, that's an old male.

00:43:31.000 That's one I want to take.

00:43:33.000 So that's why there's it's not just random like I'm rifle hunting is 400 yards away running and you kill like a bear and it has it has cubs you didn't realize it had cubs because the cubs are in a tree somewhere that the sow left.

00:43:45.000 So that's where baiting is actually the best way to manage these numbers.

00:43:49.000 And it might seem like, oh, you just throw out donuts and this and that and the bear comes in.

00:43:55.000 I mean, yeah, you could turn them like that or you could say, no, we're targeting the right animal to make this work the best way it can.

00:44:02.000 Well, people need to understand that wildlife biologists and the numbers that they put up and the rules that they apply, especially the rational rules like that, they exist because it's the only effective way to hunt these things.

00:44:13.000 Like you don't use dogs to hunt elk.

00:44:16.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:44:17.000 It's like because it doesn't seem right, right?

00:44:19.000 There's one effective way to get these mountain lions and you got to treat them.

00:44:24.000 If you don't have that option and you're bow hunting, you have to stumble upon one.

00:44:28.000 And they're going to know you're coming forever before you know they're there.

00:44:34.000 Forever, hundreds of yards away.

00:44:36.000 They're going to smell you.

00:44:37.000 They'll hear something.

00:44:38.000 They'll turn and look at it.

00:44:40.000 They have amazing eyesight.

00:44:42.000 You're not finding them.

00:44:44.000 And if you want to keep the populations in check, California's got a bear problem too.

00:44:48.000 And part of their bear problem is you can't use dogs anymore.

00:44:52.000 And that was the only way they could really control populations in a lot of these places.

00:44:56.000 Dogs are baiting.

00:44:58.000 Hey, Jamie, I got another project.

00:45:00.000 So Cam Canada, you start spelled with a K. As we were talking about, he had a deer tag.

00:45:06.000 He was deer hunting.

00:45:08.000 In Oregon, this is what you do.

00:45:09.000 You just buy a bear and a lion tag just to have with you.

00:45:12.000 But he killed this giant lion.

00:45:15.000 He was deer hunting.

00:45:16.000 This lion came up, sat on this rock 40 yards away, and he's just like, I got a lion tag.

00:45:21.000 Perfect.

00:45:21.000 Boom.

00:45:23.000 Put a perfect arrow in this giant lion.

00:45:25.000 But look at this thing.

00:45:26.000 And he's a big dude.

00:45:28.000 He's a slob.

00:45:29.000 He played for the Steelers for like six years in the NFL.

00:45:34.000 And yeah, so that was just like a happen chance.

00:45:36.000 That's how you get him in Oregon because you can't use dogs.

00:45:40.000 You can't do anything else.

00:45:41.000 So that lion just jumped up there and he made a perfect shot on it.

00:45:45.000 That's crazy.

00:45:46.000 But look at that big thing.

00:45:48.000 God.

00:45:49.000 Yeah, pretty nuts.

00:45:53.000 And like I said, Cam's like 6'4, I don't know, 200.

00:45:56.000 Did you ever see the one Derek Wolf killed?

00:45:58.000 Yeah, that was a giant one too.

00:45:59.000 Giant one.

00:46:00.000 So the Derek Wolfe story is a great one, too, because he took so much heat online about it.

00:46:04.000 People were so angry at him that he did that.

00:46:06.000 And it's just people that don't understand why it's necessary.

00:46:10.000 And first of all, if you know Derek Derek's a fucking legit Viking.

00:46:14.000 He's a legit Viking.

00:46:15.000 That guy's a giant human being.

00:46:17.000 So for him to be holding – is there another picture?

00:46:20.000 We see like the full length that he was like.

00:46:23.000 There's the full length.

00:46:23.000 That's it.

00:46:24.000 180 pounds or something.

00:46:25.000 Look at the size of that fucking thing.

00:46:28.000 Yeah, so you, and I don't know what the numbers are, but you think a lion kills, especially a lion that big, has to basically kill a deer every week, right?

00:46:37.000 So that's 365 deer a year.

00:46:40.000 That thing is killed.

00:46:41.000 Or no, not 30 years.

00:46:43.000 52 deer a year.

00:46:45.000 Imagine there's a deer every day.

00:46:47.000 But do you know the wolf thing?

00:46:49.000 They say lions are killing more deer now than ever in places where there's wolves because the wolves scared off the kill.

00:46:49.000 Possibly.

00:46:55.000 The wolves killed all the time.

00:46:56.000 They steal them all the time.

00:46:57.000 So the lions just give up and they go kill another one.

00:47:00.000 They can kill way easier than a deer can.

00:47:02.000 They're way more effective killers.

00:47:03.000 So think about, so 50, say 50 lions or 50 deer a year for each lion.

00:47:08.000 How many lions are in Colorado?

00:47:10.000 A lot.

00:47:13.000 That's a lot of fucking deer or elk calves or something's being killed.

00:47:17.000 Yeah.

00:47:18.000 Australia's got a real bad problem with shark population now.

00:47:22.000 And it's like, and I'm taking it there because what's happening is for like a really good eating fish, like a Red Emer, you'll only get like five Red Emperor.

00:47:34.000 That's your quota for the day.

00:47:36.000 You can only catch five.

00:47:37.000 And what the sharks are doing now is you'll hook a Red Emperor and the sharks will just take it off the line.

00:47:43.000 So you don't have a Red Emperor in the boat anymore, but one's dead because the sharks got it.

00:47:48.000 So you keep fishing.

00:47:49.000 And then, so now the Red Emperor.

00:47:51.000 Numbers are declining because sharks that's their like their favorite fish to jump to grab off a line.

00:47:57.000 You can catch a cod, you'll get it to the boat because the sharks aren't going for it, but if it's a red fish, the sharks are taking it constantly.

00:48:04.000 And then so what's happened is because there's been a ban on shark fishing, shark numbers have gotten out of control.

00:48:10.000 So now red emperor numbers have plummeted because the sharks are just eating them constantly.

00:48:15.000 How many people in Australia get killed by sharks every year?

00:48:18.000 There's been a few this year already.

00:48:20.000 Yeah, I actually just had.

00:48:21.000 I had my girlfriend out a couple of or maybe a month or two ago and I took her to this beautiful beach and it was.

00:48:28.000 It was awesome.

00:48:28.000 As soon as we got there, there's dolphins jumping out of the water and whatnot.

00:48:32.000 Anyway, we never went for a swim just because of how the conditions were.

00:48:35.000 And a week later, a lady was taken from that beach and her partner may have died as well.

00:48:43.000 I didn't follow up on the story, but a partner got attacked as well, but got out of the water.

00:48:48.000 Um, and it's great whites mostly on the the east coast.

00:48:51.000 Wow, they seem to be running pretty rampant at the moment.

00:48:54.000 I can't kill them.

00:48:57.000 It's the bleeding hearts that are making the votes.

00:49:01.000 Four confirmed fatal shark attacks in 2025 so far, with some trackers listing four or five deaths, depending on how many incidents are classed or how incidents are classified.

00:49:11.000 And but think about how much less people are out there in the water than oh yeah, that's the thing.

00:49:18.000 Yeah, it's like people go.

00:49:19.000 There's only four sharkatoxa.

00:49:21.000 Yeah right, but how many people are in the water?

00:49:23.000 Yeah, out of 500 people, it's not a lot of people in the water swimming out horrible way to go.

00:49:28.000 Oh, good lord, it's an absolute monster of the ocean.

00:49:32.000 Oh yeah, is.

00:49:33.000 Isn't it weird to think that uh, I mean, most society doesn't know anything about the wild these days?

00:49:40.000 You know, I mean yeah, we're domesticated yeah, so it's.

00:49:45.000 But even like I don't know, I I always say that I mean, we talked about this, i'm pretty sure, because I talk about it all the time but like, I always think that society, like this regular life here, is fake.

00:49:57.000 It's like it's not even not even real.

00:49:58.000 It's not even how humans were designed to to live and survive where the wild is actually where.

00:50:05.000 That's how, that's what we're designed to do, live in the mountains or or hunt and survive, things like that.

00:50:11.000 And so the fake life, I don't know, it's just crazy to me to think about that.

00:50:17.000 The fake life is what we think of as the real life is the real life and it's not.

00:50:20.000 It's not real, it's like what we're doing yeah, it's just we're real life yeah we're, we're made to live in a society that's not by mine or your design right, you know, and it's sort of like and that's I always feel out of it in Society, because I just feel like it's not for me.

00:50:37.000 But it is, it's here and we've got to live in it.

00:50:41.000 I do like going the ways to worlds and getting a good injection.

00:50:45.000 So, but I just want to go when I want to go.

00:50:48.000 That's the way to do it.

00:50:49.000 Attack it from the outside.

00:50:51.000 Go in, go to a nice restaurant, and get back out to the country and just fucking relax.

00:50:56.000 It's better for people.

00:50:57.000 You ever see that the old days of Vice when Vice used to do really cool stuff?

00:51:03.000 They had Vice Guide to Travel.

00:51:05.000 And there's this one guy who lives in the Arctic Circle.

00:51:08.000 And this dude is, he's been there since the 1970s.

00:51:12.000 He got a job up there and got permitted where he's like grandfathered into allowed to live in a small cabin up there, like the last guy there.

00:51:20.000 He has like a permit on his door.

00:51:22.000 And this guy has been living up there ever since he saw 9-11 in a photograph, like a year after it happened.

00:51:28.000 Had no idea what was going on.

00:51:30.000 Very smart guy, like intelligent, interesting guy, and lives up there with his wife.

00:51:37.000 And all he does is hunt caribou and fish.

00:51:40.000 And he talks about it.

00:51:41.000 And he's like, this is how people are supposed to live.

00:51:43.000 Like when you, he's not like, he's a very intelligent guy.

00:51:47.000 So like when he's talking about it, he's talking it from like in an internal programming.

00:51:51.000 Like this is like this feeling that you get living like this is how people are supposed to live.

00:51:57.000 And when you live like this, you're very fulfilled and it feels normal.

00:52:00.000 Whereas most people don't feel normal.

00:52:02.000 Most people are depressed.

00:52:04.000 They have anxiety.

00:52:05.000 They're worried about their career.

00:52:07.000 They're worried about all this stuff that is like human created.

00:52:10.000 They're worried about their social status, whether they're ostracized from the neighborhood or people like them anymore because of their political beliefs or whatever the fuck it is.

00:52:19.000 There's none of that out there.

00:52:20.000 There's none of that because it's the way we were designed.

00:52:23.000 But if we want all the things that we enjoy, like fucking Starlink and cell phones, like you have to have this weird fake world that we've created, the human created world.

00:52:32.000 But it's not conducive to like a healthy mindset for most people.

00:52:37.000 It's not normal.

00:52:39.000 And so all the, I have this thought about why exercise is so important for people's mental health.

00:52:48.000 Because I think at the very least what it does is it gives you like the physical exertion that your body requires.

00:52:57.000 But I think your body requires a connection as well.

00:53:01.000 And that's what we're missing.

00:53:02.000 We're missing the natural world connection.

00:53:05.000 And you can get some of that out of the physical exercise.

00:53:09.000 You can get some of that out of like doing, but your body's literally designed to have to move and to complete tasks in order to survive.

00:53:17.000 And that task could be like that guy out there hunting caribou, building a house, surviving, like making a homestead, growing a garden.

00:53:25.000 Like this is a normal way we are.

00:53:28.000 But we're moving into this abnormal way.

00:53:31.000 And along the way, people are losing their fucking marbles.

00:53:34.000 Everyone's crazy.

00:53:35.000 No one knows what a woman is anymore.

00:53:37.000 Like everyone, literally out of their fucking mind, out of their mind with a, if the left win, the democracy refuge, the right win, we're all going to be Nazis.

00:53:46.000 And it's just chaos.

00:53:48.000 And none of it is normal.

00:53:49.000 None of it is natural.

00:53:50.000 And the reason why it's so incompatible with most people is because we're not designed for it.

00:53:55.000 I feel it.

00:53:55.000 I know Cam's the same, but like it's just like time doing those things that are usually in a quieter environment, in a more natural environment.

00:54:04.000 Like I mentally feel better every time.

00:54:07.000 And then I almost feel myself slipping when I come back to the city, you know, and it's just like you sort of start letting your guard down.

00:54:15.000 You just slip back into it and you're like, this is, I'm not enjoying this.

00:54:19.000 And then you go back out hunting for us or camping or whatever it is.

00:54:22.000 And then I do.

00:54:23.000 I feel revitalized.

00:54:24.000 I feel healthier mentally and physically.

00:54:27.000 I feel healthier.

00:54:28.000 And then, but adding all the other things to it, you know, like you talk about, like, you know, exercise.

00:54:33.000 And yeah, it does touch on it.

00:54:35.000 And I, and I think all those little things help, but to really get out in fresh air is the big one for me, where it's just, I do.

00:54:42.000 I feel more flow state.

00:54:43.000 I wonder if, like, I'm sure primitive man felt emotions for sure.

00:54:50.000 But do you think they felt depressed?

00:54:53.000 No.

00:54:54.000 You know what I mean?

00:54:55.000 I feel like they were too busy.

00:54:56.000 I think that's just to survive.

00:54:58.000 I think people, I think this is part of this fake society is like, are you happy?

00:55:03.000 Are you happy?

00:55:04.000 It's like, happy?

00:55:05.000 What the fuck is happy?

00:55:06.000 I want to be useful out there.

00:55:09.000 I want to do something.

00:55:11.000 I'm not happy, I'm nothing.

00:55:14.000 What is happy?

00:55:15.000 No.

00:55:16.000 I'm content just being.

00:55:17.000 Right.

00:55:18.000 I feel content just being.

00:55:20.000 When you're in the mountains carrying your bow, glassing, looking, drinking, eating, looking for a place to sleep.

00:55:29.000 What is that?

00:55:30.000 That's what I want.

00:55:31.000 I don't know what is happening.

00:55:32.000 I don't know what it is, but that's like purpose.

00:55:36.000 Like, I have a purpose.

00:55:37.000 I'm trying to kill something.

00:55:38.000 That is that happy.

00:55:40.000 You're trying to find food.

00:55:42.000 To me, that feels because I don't know what happy is.

00:55:45.000 I see people, they laugh and they're fucking around.

00:55:48.000 Sometimes it's alcohol-induced or drug-induced.

00:55:52.000 Is that supposed to be happy?

00:55:54.000 What is happening?

00:55:55.000 I don't know.

00:55:56.000 I don't know what are we, what are we calling happy?

00:55:59.000 Because that's not like a little kid laughing at a birthday party.

00:56:02.000 But are those both, are they both happy?

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00:57:19.000 Well, there's different kinds of happiness, right?

00:57:22.000 Happiness you get on a fun date.

00:57:22.000 Yeah.

00:57:24.000 You know, there's happiness you get when you, you know, you do fun, stupid shit.

00:57:28.000 Like you go play like sandbox games.

00:57:30.000 You pretend you're shooting zombies with VR.

00:57:33.000 That's happy.

00:57:33.000 It's fun.

00:57:34.000 It's silly.

00:57:35.000 You get it out of it.

00:57:36.000 Everyone has a smile.

00:57:37.000 You had a good time.

00:57:38.000 That was wild.

00:57:39.000 That's happy, too.

00:57:40.000 There's a bunch of different kinds of happiness.

00:57:42.000 Some of it we've created, but there's content.

00:57:45.000 Like, are you content?

00:57:46.000 Like, are you enjoying your existence?

00:57:49.000 And I think that's a real struggle for a lot of people.

00:57:49.000 Yeah.

00:57:51.000 Because there's a giant percentage of the people that are listening to this right now that are forced to do something they don't enjoy doing most of the time.

00:57:51.000 Right.

00:57:59.000 Most of the time, most of their day, they're doing something they don't enjoy doing because they have to do it in order to do the things that they do enjoy.

00:58:07.000 So if you want to go on vacation, you got to make enough money to afford the trip to Hawaii.

00:58:11.000 If you want to do this, you got to do that.

00:58:13.000 If you want to do this, you got to do that.

00:58:14.000 You're like, so you're just fucking in some stupid cubicle, punching keys, just planning all the fun stuff you're going to do with the money that you make doing this thing you hate doing.

00:58:25.000 It's pretty nuts.

00:58:28.000 I've never felt happy in that.

00:58:30.000 That's what I'm saying.

00:58:31.000 But having to do something to get to somewhere, sometimes you have to be unhappy.

00:58:35.000 That's true, too.

00:58:36.000 And you're the wrong person to be commenting on this because you're extreme.

00:58:39.000 You're never going to be happy because you're going to continue to chase bigger and better.

00:58:43.000 Yeah, that's what I said.

00:58:44.000 Which is good.

00:58:45.000 That's awesome.

00:58:45.000 I don't know.

00:58:47.000 I mean, and I've mentioned this before.

00:58:50.000 I'm happiest when I'm suffering.

00:58:53.000 That's ridiculous.

00:58:53.000 Yeah.

00:58:54.000 No, but like, doesn't it doesn't it feel like Adam and I, we just looked at each other.

00:59:00.000 He's fucking crazy.

00:59:01.000 Because when I'm suffering, it's because I'm doing something that matters to me.

00:59:05.000 Right.

00:59:06.000 Yeah, you like that.

00:59:07.000 And you know what's on the other side.

00:59:09.000 That's what I'm saying.

00:59:10.000 Yeah, you've sort of programmed yourself to be like that, too.

00:59:13.000 You know, this is like similar to Goggins, right?

00:59:16.000 Goggins always wants people to know that he wasn't always like this, that he used to be fat and lazy.

00:59:21.000 And he shows pictures of himself at 300 pounds.

00:59:24.000 He always talks about it.

00:59:25.000 You know, it's like, it's like, this isn't, I wasn't born like this.

00:59:27.000 Like, I turned myself into this.

00:59:29.000 And I think one of the reasons why you've been able to struggle so much is that you've figured out a way to enjoy struggle.

00:59:36.000 And a lot of people avoid struggle at all costs.

00:59:39.000 They want the couch.

00:59:40.000 Oh, I want to relax.

00:59:42.000 It's cold out.

00:59:43.000 I don't want to get in that fucking cold plunge.

00:59:45.000 Are you crazy?

00:59:45.000 What's wrong with you?

00:59:47.000 You know, I love struggle because you know what's on the other side.

00:59:51.000 Yeah.

00:59:51.000 The gross.

00:59:53.000 So it's like once you've done that, and I think that's where a lot of people struggle.

00:59:56.000 If they quit or they don't get to the other side, then you don't know the reward on it.

01:00:01.000 What you just said is perfect.

01:00:02.000 That's why they struggle because they don't struggle.

01:00:04.000 It's like the thing you're avoiding is causing you to have the exact same thing.

01:00:08.000 It's just you're getting a slow dose of that poison and you never get out of it.

01:00:13.000 Whereas if you voluntarily struggle, then you get this beautiful feeling when it's over.

01:00:18.000 But you're not doing that.

01:00:19.000 So you're just getting the same amount of struggle in these weird little slow doses all day long.

01:00:26.000 So you're never getting like, oh my God, I'm in agony.

01:00:28.000 I can't breathe.

01:00:30.000 But if you did, then the rest of the day would be easy.

01:00:33.000 Instead, you're getting, oh my God, the world is closing in on me and I don't know why I'm so freaked out and I'm riddled with anxiety all day long for no fucking reason.

01:00:41.000 I'm having a panic attack and there's nothing wrong.

01:00:44.000 That's what's going on.

01:00:45.000 Like you're getting your suffering in like little doses all day long and it's driving you fucking crazy.

01:00:52.000 Yeah.

01:00:53.000 And that's why you get on SSRIs and that's why you do this and that's why you do that and you join a cult and everyone's just trying to figure out a way to feel better.

01:01:01.000 Everyone's just trying to figure out a way to feel better.

01:01:03.000 And one of the ways to feel better is voluntary struggling.

01:01:07.000 Yeah.

01:01:08.000 You've got to volunteer to put yourself in stressful situations, difficult situations.

01:01:12.000 Do it on purpose.

01:01:13.000 If you do that, then the regular world is easier.

01:01:18.000 Yeah, it's, I think, like, I'm always, of course, biased towards hunting in the mountains, but I also think that men, men specifically, you know, where I grew up and in the environment I grew up, hunters were respected.

01:01:33.000 And if you killed a big buck, you're like, that meant something in a small town I was because it's very difficult to do.

01:01:39.000 Right.

01:01:39.000 And it's like, for men, respect is such an important thing.

01:01:44.000 It's like we always say, like, women need love, men need, if you have to choose.

01:01:49.000 Men, love doesn't mean shit really, but respect does.

01:01:52.000 And like hunting was a way to earn respect from the community.

01:01:57.000 And that's why for men, like when I, as hunters, I think that's appealing for people who don't hunt because they see that image and they're like, I'm missing that because they see that there's respect earned there.

01:02:09.000 And that's what men, whether they want to admit it or not, that's a big driving force.

01:02:15.000 Like you, even at work, or whatever job you have, you want to be respected.

01:02:19.000 Here's a perfect example.

01:02:20.000 That story you were telling me about shooting that bull in the Oregon backcountry, and you is a terrible place to kill a bull, and you called up that dude.

01:02:31.000 That guy.

01:02:31.000 Yeah.

01:02:32.000 Cal.

01:02:32.000 Cal Halliday.

01:02:33.000 Which sounds like a fake name.

01:02:34.000 We were talking about that shit.

01:02:35.000 It's like a gunslinger.

01:02:37.000 Cal Halliday sounds like such a fake name.

01:02:40.000 It's a perfect badass name.

01:02:41.000 You call this dude and ask him to help you.

01:02:44.000 Dude drove through.

01:02:45.000 You told him, okay, he said, I'll see you there at 8 a.m.

01:02:48.000 Yeah.

01:02:49.000 This guy drives through the night.

01:02:51.000 He shows up.

01:02:52.000 Like, how many hours did it take him to get there?

01:02:54.000 He had four guys.

01:02:54.000 So he had to round up three other guys.

01:02:56.000 So he brought four of them, like him and three guys.

01:03:00.000 And they live, God, how far away?

01:03:03.000 I mean, at least a couple hours, I think.

01:03:07.000 And so they had to get together, drive a couple hours, get up on this old, like logging road, essentially, into the access point of the wilderness to the trailhead, pack in miles, right?

01:03:20.000 So this is like 9 or 10 at night.

01:03:21.000 They said they'd be there at 8 in the morning.

01:03:23.000 So that's what it took.

01:03:25.000 Like to get there and then miles back to this remote middle of the wilderness hellhole area by 8 a.m.

01:03:32.000 So yeah, it was hours and hours and hours just to get there.

01:03:37.000 And you can't time that.

01:03:38.000 You can't time that he's talking about it.

01:03:40.000 But the way you talked about him, that's what every man wants.

01:03:43.000 Yeah.

01:03:43.000 Like that was a fucking man.

01:03:45.000 Yes.

01:03:45.000 But he earns it too.

01:03:47.000 And you're talking about, you know, respect so important, but you do have to earn respect.

01:03:51.000 Right, right.

01:03:52.000 And that when, so in that moment, so there was me, Wayne, Tanner, my son, James, my camera guy, Gideon.

01:04:02.000 And then he brought four guys.

01:04:04.000 So we had eight guys.

01:04:06.000 In that moment, there's not eight other men I would rather have or seven other men besides me that I'd rather have there because those to do that is special.

01:04:18.000 That's not everybody can do that shit.

01:04:21.000 But those guys, that was their purpose.

01:04:24.000 They could probably never be, quote, happier than in that moment, elk meat on our back, miles to get to the trailhead out.

01:04:32.000 Hundreds of pounds of meat.

01:04:33.000 Yeah, 300 pounds of meat.

01:04:35.000 So we waited at the butcher when I took the, to get processed.

01:04:39.000 300 pounds of boned out meat.

01:04:41.000 That's not a bone on there.

01:04:43.000 Not including your camp, not including everything that's on your back, your pack.

01:04:45.000 And the head.

01:04:46.000 I took the head out.

01:04:47.000 So 300 pounds of meat plus everything else that we had.

01:04:50.000 But eight of us packed it out, and it was the greatest day I can remember probably this season.

01:04:57.000 You know, I mean, it was that that was that was real.

01:05:02.000 That's what I say.

01:05:03.000 That's real.

01:05:04.000 All this other shit, I don't know what this is, but that was fucking real.

01:05:08.000 I killed a bull.

01:05:09.000 We have to get it out to take care of this meat.

01:05:12.000 Here's some badass mountain men who can help me.

01:05:15.000 Does it get any better?

01:05:17.000 Yeah, I think I've known you for 13 or 14 years now, and you've always been like that.

01:05:17.000 No.

01:05:22.000 You've never changed in that sense.

01:05:23.000 Like those things are important to you.

01:05:25.000 Those things are meaningful to you.

01:05:27.000 It's incredible.

01:05:28.000 No, it's thank you.

01:05:29.000 But yeah, it's, yeah, I mean, that's all that fucking matters.

01:05:33.000 Yeah, it's most people never experienced that.

01:05:36.000 That's what's wrong.

01:05:37.000 What's wrong is most people never experienced that insane, challenging experience where your character's tested, your will is tested, your commitment is tested.

01:05:49.000 Just think.

01:05:50.000 So the video on this hunt came out last night, and it's called The Bow Hunter.

01:05:54.000 But there's a moment there after we had called, after we'd got my bull processed.

01:06:01.000 So at that time, it was just me, Wayne, Tanner, and James.

01:06:05.000 And we're just sitting there.

01:06:06.000 We had our tent set up.

01:06:07.000 The meat's all hanging up, middle of the night, sitting there talking, we're eating peak meals.

01:06:16.000 I'm like, why were you eating peak meals when you had elk meat there?

01:06:21.000 We didn't have a fire.

01:06:22.000 But the meat was processed.

01:06:24.000 It wasn't time to eat or like to break down the bowl, but that would have been great.

01:06:28.000 Tenderloins over a fire would have been amazing.

01:06:30.000 We just didn't do it.

01:06:31.000 But the point is, in that moment, there's no other place on earth, no other time in my life that I would rather be.

01:06:40.000 That is, that was the pinnacle of life for me.

01:06:45.000 That's a normal, natural experience for primitive man.

01:06:50.000 Yes.

01:06:50.000 That's what it is.

01:06:51.000 And it's how we stayed alive.

01:06:54.000 And the way I describe it to people, there's a feeling.

01:06:57.000 Most people have caught a fish.

01:06:59.000 There's a feeling when someone catches a fish, like even a child.

01:07:03.000 When I took my daughter bass fishing, she was like six, I think.

01:07:06.000 She caught a bunch of bass.

01:07:08.000 And the feeling that she got when she hooked it, like, oh, her eyes light up, it is built in us.

01:07:14.000 It's inside of us.

01:07:16.000 But catching a fish, bow hunting and in the mountains, killing an animal, cooking it over a fire with your boys, is that times a thousand.

01:07:25.000 It's a crazy built-in, we did what we have to do, and we're looking forward to doing it again.

01:07:32.000 So that intense experience, the difficulty, all of it.

01:07:37.000 You're sitting there relaxing, you're eating, and you have no doubt you can't wait to do that again.

01:07:41.000 You're not like, man, I don't want to do this again.

01:07:43.000 This is nuts.

01:07:43.000 You're like, yeah, I'm fucking tired, but that was awesome.

01:07:46.000 That was awesome.

01:07:47.000 You take the pack off, like, whoo!

01:07:49.000 Dude, you're sitting there by the fire, like, holy shit, you're drenched in sweat.

01:07:52.000 Your legs are gone.

01:07:54.000 Everybody's around smiling like we fucking did it.

01:07:56.000 We did it.

01:07:57.000 I just don't know how, I mean, you hope the films can show that and sh and but gives you a peek to feel it.

01:08:06.000 It's, I would, I wish everybody could feel it just so they'd know.

01:08:06.000 Oh, yeah.

01:08:12.000 Yeah.

01:08:13.000 It'll never happen, but it's, it's so powerful.

01:08:16.000 It's life-changing.

01:08:17.000 Do you remember Israel Adesanya's speech after he knocked out Pereira?

01:08:20.000 What'd he say?

01:08:20.000 Yes.

01:08:21.000 He goes, I wish, he goes, people of the world, play it.

01:08:24.000 Let's play it because it's fucking amazing.

01:08:26.000 It's fucking amazing.

01:08:27.000 So this is Alex Pereira.

01:08:28.000 This is a guy that had beaten him three times.

01:08:30.000 Three times, yeah.

01:08:31.000 Knocked him out in kickboxing, knocked him out in MMA, and then finally he knocked him out.

01:08:36.000 Yeah.

01:08:37.000 And this is like everybody was like terrified of him taking this rematch.

01:08:41.000 Pereira can't be stopped.

01:08:43.000 Pereira is a destroyer.

01:08:44.000 He's the scariest guy ever.

01:08:46.000 But he asked me to give him the microphone.

01:08:53.000 Look at that.

01:08:55.000 All the world is fall.

01:09:03.000 what a human I love stylebender Oh, he's the best.

01:09:10.000 Holy shit.

01:09:11.000 He's the best.

01:09:14.000 Let me just hold the microphone.

01:09:15.000 Yes, sir.

01:09:17.000 Hey, sure, sure.

01:09:18.000 Listen up.

01:09:18.000 I want to say something.

01:09:20.000 People, Earth, I need to say something.

01:09:23.000 Listen to me.

01:09:25.000 I hope every one of you behind the screens on this arena can feel this level of happiness just one time in your life.

01:09:35.000 I hope all of you can feel how happy I am just one time in your life.

01:09:40.000 But guess what?

01:09:42.000 You will never feel this level of happiness if you don't go for something in your own life when they knock you down, where they try on you, when they talk about you, and they're trying to put their foot on your neck.

01:09:54.000 If you stay down, you will never ever get that result.

01:09:58.000 Fortify your mind and feel this level of happiness as you rise one time in your life.

01:10:03.000 But I'm blessed to be able to feel this again and again and again and again and again.

01:10:11.000 That's the greatest post-fight speech of all time.

01:10:15.000 You know what I love too?

01:10:16.000 Like, even in that moment, like, there's a little bit of blood starting to trickle out of his nose.

01:10:21.000 You know, I mean, because he looks really good for just fighting, but it's like there's little, you know, the sweat, the blood trickling.

01:10:29.000 Oh, man.

01:10:29.000 He's getting hit, man.

01:10:30.000 He's getting hit.

01:10:31.000 And his left leg was already destroyed.

01:10:34.000 He didn't take many of those.

01:10:35.000 No, he was talking to me about it afterwards.

01:10:36.000 He's like, that motherfucker got me again.

01:10:38.000 I was thinking that before that.

01:10:40.000 He got my fucking leg again because that was a part of the problem with the first fight.

01:10:43.000 Yeah.

01:10:43.000 First MMA fight.

01:10:45.000 His left leg was destroyed.

01:10:47.000 He couldn't move his left leg.

01:10:48.000 So even though he's like bobbing, he's like, I was okay.

01:10:50.000 He goes, but I couldn't get out of there.

01:10:52.000 He goes, I couldn't move my fucking leg, man.

01:10:54.000 He goes, I was getting hit, but I was still there.

01:10:56.000 I was moving, like, he was still moving around, but he couldn't go away.

01:11:00.000 Like, his leg was destroyed.

01:11:02.000 And that's what people don't think about when you like, especially those goddamn calf kicks.

01:11:07.000 Yeah.

01:11:07.000 He probably knew after the first one.

01:11:09.000 He was like, fuck, he got me again.

01:11:12.000 He destroys people's legs.

01:11:13.000 And then you're a sitting duck in front of the scariest puncher in the history of the division.

01:11:17.000 Hands of stone there.

01:11:18.000 Oh, my God.

01:11:19.000 He's fucking terrifying.

01:11:20.000 And for him to catch him with that perfect right hand off the cage like that.

01:11:24.000 Oh, my God.

01:11:25.000 And then shoot the arrows into him.

01:11:27.000 Greatest post-fight celebration.

01:11:29.000 Greatest post-fight speech of all time.

01:11:32.000 Of all time.

01:11:32.000 There's not even a second place.

01:11:35.000 Except Rosenama Eunice.

01:11:36.000 That one time when she was saying, I'm the best.

01:11:40.000 That was pretty powerful.

01:11:41.000 That was pretty powerful, too.

01:11:43.000 Jamie.

01:11:44.000 Could you find that tent scene at the end of that video?

01:11:46.000 But here's what I was curious about: oh, he did find it.

01:11:52.000 Yeah, look right here.

01:11:54.000 So the difference between Israel's happiness and this happiness.

01:11:58.000 I'll do anything you want to do.

01:12:00.000 But, you know, you go until you're just sick of the weight and you get it under the tree in the shade.

01:12:05.000 Yeah.

01:12:06.000 And you get all kind of energized, come back, drink some water, grab it.

01:12:09.000 And then mentally, you're not coming back to here.

01:12:12.000 Right.

01:12:13.000 I mean, you get it all across the creek in that flat.

01:12:16.000 I mean, it doesn't get anywhere in the bottom.

01:12:19.000 That was a pack out, but I wouldn't want it any other way.

01:12:23.000 Wayne, he had a horse packer set up.

01:12:25.000 And then I had also talked to Cal Halliday.

01:12:28.000 And when I was in there by myself on an opening weekend, he said, hey, if you kill a bull in here by yourself, he goes, let me know, send me a text or something.

01:12:37.000 I'll have, you know, four or five guys here within five hours to help pack.

01:12:40.000 So, no, it wasn't opening weekend, but I'm like, I told Wayne that, and I said, he goes, well, who do you want to get hold of?

01:12:48.000 You want to get a hold of Cal or do you want to get hold of the horse packer?

01:12:51.000 And I'm like, I think I'd rather have Cal with some other badass, you know, mountain guys and just share this pack out with them.

01:13:01.000 Yeah, but it's all if we go less of a jungle, too.

01:13:03.000 So these guys right here, bro, hilarious.

01:13:06.000 You don't want any other people.

01:13:07.000 And Tanner's got so much weight on the form.

01:13:10.000 Cal, they got up, I don't know what time, three in the morning, made it all the way there.

01:13:14.000 They said they'd be there at 8 a.m.

01:13:16.000 They were down at my bowl at 8:01.

01:13:20.000 And I don't know, I mean, this is miles and miles and miles, just, you know, just studs.

01:13:26.000 Yeah.

01:13:26.000 And so, yeah, it's like, I'll never forget that.

01:13:29.000 I'll never forget the whole, obviously the whole hunt, but that morning was a special one.

01:13:34.000 Cal, Eric, Keith, and Ryan.

01:13:37.000 Just freaking massive.

01:13:38.000 Yeah, so thankful for them.

01:13:41.000 That bull is massive.

01:13:42.000 So it's like, here's it, but that's the juxtaposition is to me, that was my Israel Adesania moment about I will never be happier.

01:13:52.000 But look how, look how different those moments are.

01:13:54.000 One's in front of a huge crowd, millions of people watching, being, you know, getting all that attention from all those people.

01:14:02.000 And then I'm, I guarantee, just as happy or happier right there.

01:14:06.000 Isn't that crazy?

01:14:07.000 It is crazy.

01:14:08.000 Yeah, that's your thing and you'll fan your thing.

01:14:10.000 I always talk about that, like people just trying to find out.

01:14:10.000 Yeah.

01:14:13.000 Yeah.

01:14:13.000 That's your thing.

01:14:14.000 My thing's the outdoors and bowling.

01:14:15.000 Israel's thing is fighting.

01:14:17.000 So for him, that's the pinnacle.

01:14:21.000 For us, whatever your thing is, get to the pinnacle.

01:14:25.000 That's a lesson.

01:14:27.000 Find the happiness in that.

01:14:30.000 Do you think whatever it is?

01:14:31.000 Whatever it is for you.

01:14:33.000 You're talking about your daughter catching that fish, and it's like this primal instinct inside of her that just flares up that fighters have that same feeling.

01:14:42.000 Like it's a primal feeling.

01:14:44.000 Oh, 100%.

01:14:45.000 Yeah.

01:14:45.000 It's a little more conflicted, Doug, depending upon how bad you hurt your opponent.

01:14:49.000 When you hurt him really bad, it's a very conflicting moment because you know that could have been you.

01:14:54.000 Some guys don't get that feeling.

01:14:55.000 Some guys, they're like, good fuck him.

01:14:58.000 But a lot of guys, it's like, woof.

01:15:00.000 There's some guys that knock a guy out real bad and then they almost want to retire afterwards.

01:15:05.000 They're just like, I don't want to do that to anybody anymore.

01:15:08.000 Especially guys that have killed guys.

01:15:10.000 Like Ray Mancini, when he killed Duck Koo Kim.

01:15:13.000 I don't think he was ever the same again.

01:15:14.000 There's a few guys like that in history that have had boxing matches where they killed a guy and then they were kind of never the same after that.

01:15:20.000 Yeah, that's some scary shit.

01:15:21.000 Yeah, because you realize like this is what you're this is what you're doing.

01:15:24.000 Yeah.

01:15:25.000 This could lead to that happening to you.

01:15:28.000 And you think about your kids watching on TV and crying or even worse there while you're getting beat up.

01:15:34.000 I always freak out when guys bring their kids.

01:15:36.000 I'm like, oh man, bring your kid to a fight.

01:15:40.000 I've seen guys get knocked out in front of their kids and it's particularly devastating, particularly devastating, especially when you really like the guy.

01:15:48.000 It's rough.

01:15:49.000 It's a rough way to make a living.

01:15:51.000 But those guys, when they get that belt strapped around them, when their hands get raised and the whole audience screams and cheers, it's like, that's a special moment.

01:16:00.000 That's a special moment that very few people ever get to experience.

01:16:03.000 Unless they kill a bull in the wilderness.

01:16:04.000 I don't even know if it's the same.

01:16:07.000 It's like a different kind of happiness.

01:16:09.000 I think yours is more sustained.

01:16:11.000 Yours lasts longer.

01:16:13.000 That's what I say.

01:16:13.000 It's like, I don't know.

01:16:14.000 Like, Israel said he was happy.

01:16:17.000 I guess that's what it is.

01:16:18.000 But you know what the reality is?

01:16:19.000 After the happiness dies off for a couple of days, then you start thinking about your next fight.

01:16:24.000 And you immediately start getting that anxiety.

01:16:26.000 I think that's a good drive in life, though, right?

01:16:28.000 Because you don't just do that elk hunt and be like, I'm done now.

01:16:31.000 You know, it's like not, what's the next one?

01:16:34.000 You know, and it's like that constant pursuit.

01:16:37.000 And it's also like constantly recognizing that you're always going to be at least trying to get better.

01:16:43.000 You're always trying to get better.

01:16:45.000 Anything that is going to give you like real happiness is going to be very difficult because you're not really going to ever be able to master it.

01:16:52.000 Whatever it is.

01:16:53.000 It's like that's where it is.

01:16:55.000 The real, it's in the pursuit of it.

01:16:58.000 And along the way, recognizing that you consistently keep getting better.

01:17:02.000 But it's like there's a dream that you're chasing that you're never going to get to.

01:17:06.000 You're never going to get to bow hunting perfection.

01:17:08.000 It doesn't exist.

01:17:09.000 You can get really close.

01:17:10.000 You've gotten really, really close.

01:17:12.000 But we're human and it's the wild.

01:17:15.000 And there's all sorts of weird variables that happen.

01:17:19.000 There's branches and sticks and wind and this and that.

01:17:22.000 And it's impossible to be perfect.

01:17:24.000 Yeah.

01:17:24.000 And that's part of the magic of it.

01:17:26.000 Part of the magic of it is that when you're in the moment and it's all happening, it's all so open-ended.

01:17:33.000 Like any result can take place.

01:17:35.000 You really do not know how this is all going to go down.

01:17:38.000 You haven't seen it all play out.

01:17:40.000 You might imagine how it's going to play out, but it's going to play out in unique situations.

01:17:44.000 Some of them will be similar.

01:17:45.000 Some of them will be completely different.

01:17:47.000 And you've got to figure it out.

01:17:49.000 Like you were telling me that crazy story that I was talking to you about the podcast where you're shooting down at this bull, like from like a cliff, like straight down.

01:17:57.000 Yeah.

01:17:57.000 San Carlos this year.

01:17:59.000 So I arranged the bull.

01:18:00.000 It was a huge cliff.

01:18:02.000 And what I thought is I'd get up there and I'd be able to see the flat.

01:18:05.000 And there were some bulls down there.

01:18:07.000 It was a tough year in Arizona's the drought.

01:18:09.000 But from that cliff, I thought that'd be a great vantage point to see where these bulls were in plan of stock.

01:18:15.000 So get way up there.

01:18:17.000 Actually, there's sheep right above us too.

01:18:18.000 It's like crazy rugged country.

01:18:21.000 But get up there on that cliff and I'm kind of looking out over the expanse there.

01:18:25.000 And then I look straight down below me.

01:18:27.000 There's this big bull and like straight down.

01:18:30.000 And I'm like, it's like if you're hunting mule deer, you know, they always bed up against the cliffs because so their back's protected.

01:18:36.000 The wind's coming up.

01:18:37.000 They can monitor down below them with their nose.

01:18:41.000 They know nothing's coming from the back.

01:18:42.000 That's how mule deer bed to survive.

01:18:45.000 Well, this bull had done that same thing.

01:18:48.000 And it was, it had just stood up from the base of the cliff.

01:18:51.000 And I looked down, I range at 42 yards, which people who know, if it's the rangefinder is telling you to shoot for 42, that means straight down, that means it's probably close to 60 yards, you know, because the range, the rangefinder does a calculation.

01:19:08.000 If you shoot flat, that's the gravity affects one thing.

01:19:11.000 If you shoot straight down, gravity has less effect.

01:19:14.000 So it's saying, even though it's further, you would shoot for less distance is how that works.

01:19:19.000 So it told me to shoot for 42.

01:19:21.000 That means it's probably 60 straight down.

01:19:24.000 And that's a long shot with it with a bow.

01:19:27.000 And then I had to, shooting straight down, I had to, I thought that I was like going to go straight through his spine because I was straight above him.

01:19:35.000 I'm like, well, I'm going to come right behind the shoulders, straight through his spine into his vitals.

01:19:40.000 I thought that should do it.

01:19:41.000 So I shoot, I hit that bull like about, I would say, an inch off the spine.

01:19:47.000 I show it.

01:19:48.000 There's a video of it on that, the video we just watched for people who are interested.

01:19:52.000 But about an inch off that spine into his chest, and the bull went about 100 yards.

01:19:56.000 But yeah, it was, I've never done a shot like that before in my life.

01:20:00.000 You know, you think about different scenarios.

01:20:02.000 I had never even thought about one like that on a bull elk at that distance at that angle.

01:20:07.000 So that is even.

01:20:09.000 Yeah, it's back.

01:20:10.000 This is the, that's the Winnehaw bull, but it's back, Jamie, about, I was talking about getting ready for this hunt, and it shows like a few clips of the bull I killed in Colorado, then the Arizona bull, then I did another hunt in Utah, and I killed a bull there to get prepared for the Oregon hunt.

01:20:29.000 But yeah, it was just, I'd never even really thought that that shot would be a potential one.

01:20:34.000 The Oregon hunt is crazy because of the wilderness is so dense.

01:20:38.000 Yeah, Oregon is nuts.

01:20:40.000 It's a forest hunt.

01:20:41.000 It's like a rainforest.

01:20:43.000 It's like Jurassic Park.

01:20:44.000 And that's in eastern Oregon.

01:20:45.000 That's the dry part of the state.

01:20:47.000 That's crazy.

01:20:48.000 But it's such a hole there, so much moisture down there that it turned into like Jurassic Park.

01:20:54.000 With that bull coming in bugling, it was like a dinosaur.

01:20:59.000 There's nothing that matches that.

01:21:01.000 That aspect of elk hunting makes it so much cooler.

01:21:03.000 Yeah.

01:21:04.000 Just the sound they make when they're coming in.

01:21:06.000 It's just like all of your fucking pores pop up.

01:21:10.000 It's like you get goosebumps all over your body.

01:21:12.000 You back your neck, the hair stands up.

01:21:14.000 It's like the scream is like, whoa.

01:21:17.000 It's so, it is my favorite sound.

01:21:20.000 It's amazing.

01:21:21.000 Oh, they're incredible animals.

01:21:22.000 When you hear, when you're close and there's an elk screaming through the woods and he's coming close towards you, the thrill of that is like nothing else.

01:21:33.000 Like nothing else.

01:21:34.000 No.

01:21:34.000 And people who haven't heard it, they hear that and they're like, what the fuck is that?

01:21:39.000 Right.

01:21:39.000 It's about demons.

01:21:40.000 It's weird that there's an animal on this planet that makes that noise.

01:21:44.000 If we hadn't done this our whole lives and we heard that, we'd be like, what is going on?

01:21:50.000 Yeah, if you had done what Adam did in Japan and not research like what kind of animals are in the area and you were camping out and you heard that scream, you'd be like, oh my God, we're surrounded by demons.

01:22:01.000 No, I've had people tell me stories like there's something really weird in the woods there.

01:22:05.000 Yeah.

01:22:06.000 And then, but you find out it's like fellow deer or red deer living in there, and it's like just a bowl and they're just roaring, and just people are like, What the fuck is that?

01:22:15.000 Oh, yeah.

01:22:15.000 It's like, actually, it's just a deer.

01:22:17.000 Stag have the craziest roar.

01:22:19.000 It's such a weird actually make a real pussy sound compared to a roar song.

01:22:26.000 Well, like an African lion, because I heard those when I was hunting over there, like they're by the river, and so we're like an African lion in the middle of the night, they're like, oh my God, it just like reverberates through the whatever we were jumbles.

01:22:43.000 If there's anything that lights up your DNA, the sound of a lion must just chill your fucking sex.

01:22:51.000 Nothing like that either.

01:22:52.000 Nothing like that either.

01:22:53.000 But you know, here's one, here's an exciting thing.

01:22:55.000 So, for people listening that maybe didn't grow up hunting, we were talking about this in the green room last night when we were getting high off all the smoke.

01:23:04.000 We weren't smoking, but we got hot.

01:23:09.000 What's crazy is nowadays, you know, we're 58, you're 45, right?

01:23:14.000 But we're just getting even better physically.

01:23:17.000 So, so you say you can't master bow hunting, right?

01:23:20.000 Because you only had a certain window.

01:23:22.000 Like, normally, how hunting works is you're young and strong, all the endurance in the world, but you don't know shit, right?

01:23:29.000 You don't have the experience.

01:23:30.000 So, by the time you get the experience and you're old and broke down, you can't take advantage of the experience.

01:23:35.000 So, you have to have wisdom.

01:23:36.000 The wisdom you gained when you were young, you utilize when you're old to kill.

01:23:40.000 Well, now we can gain all that experience and wisdom.

01:23:43.000 Like, I've been, you know, hunting for 40-some years, and I'm also at the best I've ever been physically.

01:23:50.000 You marry those two up.

01:23:53.000 That's what's nuts is that didn't exist before.

01:23:53.000 Look out.

01:23:55.000 So, like, we go to Ways to Well today and get stem cell and get, you know, the IV treatments and get everything else to be able to operate at our absolute prime at 58 years old with 40 years of experience.

01:23:55.000 Right.

01:24:09.000 Yeah.

01:24:09.000 That's it.

01:24:10.000 That's tough.

01:24:11.000 That's you're going to have success if you do it right.

01:24:13.000 So, yeah, not everybody's going to be in that situation where they grew up hunting like me, but you even think about Jelly Roll at 41 years old.

01:24:21.000 So, he just started bow hunting.

01:24:24.000 You started bow hunting in your 40s, and now you've been doing it for 15 years, and you're getting better.

01:24:29.000 So, there's hope for even people 40, 50, or whatever, with this new science and treatment and supplements and things like that.

01:24:38.000 You can still be very active and still take on new intense endeavors like bow hunting or hunting, just hunting in general, and have success.

01:24:46.000 And it might change your entire life.

01:24:47.000 Like, Jellyroll is a different fucking person.

01:24:50.000 Yeah.

01:24:51.000 In two years, he's a different person, a different human.

01:24:54.000 Totally.

01:24:55.000 That should be exciting for people listening.

01:24:57.000 Yeah, they should learn that you could do it too.

01:24:59.000 And it's that and having more energy.

01:25:02.000 Like, say if you're not into bow hunting, you say if you're not, you know, like, I don't want to be a marathon runner, whatever, whatever it is.

01:25:08.000 If your body is healthier, whatever the thing you do, you're going to be better.

01:25:12.000 You're going to have more energy.

01:25:13.000 You're going to be better.

01:25:14.000 Well, you can be better at it.

01:25:15.000 You're going to be better at it.

01:25:15.000 You're going to have, like, why do people like cognitively decline when they get older?

01:25:20.000 Well, a big part of it is you're declining overall.

01:25:23.000 Everything's declining.

01:25:25.000 Everything about you is declining.

01:25:27.000 Of course, your brain is declining as well.

01:25:29.000 Like, your entire existence is fading.

01:25:33.000 But the more you can have energy, the more you have vitality, the more you can do what, I don't care if you play chess, whatever the fuck it is that you like to do, paint, whatever it is you like to do, the more energy you have, the more energy you'll be able to apply to that thing you do.

01:25:48.000 The more enjoyable it is, the better quality of life, the happier you are.

01:25:52.000 Including all the other stuff.

01:25:54.000 You know, just being with your family.

01:25:56.000 You'll have more energy to do stuff.

01:25:58.000 You'll be more, you'll have more life.

01:26:01.000 You'll have more life energy.

01:26:04.000 Here's one mindset I've tried to take on with, especially with hunting, because that's all I really fucking care about is improving and learning on every time.

01:26:15.000 And I could even think about like, I was telling somebody, I don't know who, but on every, I try to learn something on every stock.

01:26:23.000 And when I think about when you killed the sable the other day, so we're there and you have to weigh out so many things on a stock when you're getting ready to kill an animal or potentially kill an animal.

01:26:34.000 But we're thinking about, okay, we have the wind.

01:26:37.000 The wind is, that's the biggest thing with bull hunting.

01:26:40.000 So I knew where the wind was.

01:26:42.000 But then also it's like, well, do we go stay in the shade so the sun wouldn't blind you as it was going down?

01:26:49.000 But if we stay in the shade, we're not perfectly downwind.

01:26:53.000 So I'm like, well, the sun's going to set.

01:26:55.000 The winds change because thermals change.

01:26:58.000 If we're to the side in the shade, so you don't have to deal with the sun.

01:27:02.000 Then when that wind becomes unstable, it's more likely to smell us.

01:27:07.000 So we should be all the way downwind, but that means we're going to have to shoot before the sun gets too low to where it's not blinding you.

01:27:14.000 To get to the side, then you have to figure out what's the path to get there to where we're not making noise for the animal to hear.

01:27:20.000 Well, it's straight to the, I don't know if you remember that tree.

01:27:23.000 And I said, head straight to that tree.

01:27:25.000 And from that tree, then I was thinking, you should have a lane because there was brush all around, but it looked to me like from that tree, you would have a lane to shoot at 28 yards, but you're still factoring all these, the wind, the sun, everything else.

01:27:40.000 What's the animal going to do?

01:27:41.000 It's just so fascinating to think about.

01:27:43.000 But I know some people hunt and I don't think they think about it in those details.

01:27:49.000 You know what I mean?

01:27:50.000 They're just kind of like, oh, there's an animal.

01:27:51.000 What do I do?

01:27:52.000 But like, that's not how, that's not how you master the moment.

01:27:57.000 You master the moment by, and I said this a lot of times too on many of these hunts.

01:28:02.000 I was telling Jellyroll this.

01:28:03.000 I was like, everything matters.

01:28:06.000 Everything.

01:28:08.000 The littlest thing matters.

01:28:10.000 The big things obviously matter.

01:28:13.000 But everything matters.

01:28:15.000 And that's what hunting teaches us.

01:28:17.000 And in life, you can make it through regular life on this fake world that I keep talking about by ignoring a lot of things.

01:28:26.000 Not on a hunt.

01:28:27.000 Yeah, we had to think about a lot of things on that stalk.

01:28:29.000 On a hunt, everything matters.

01:28:31.000 And one of the big ones that we had to think about was as that sun was dropping.

01:28:35.000 So we were standing there waiting for this sable to get up.

01:28:38.000 It had bedded and it didn't know we were there and we creeped into the spot we were.

01:28:44.000 Slowly go.

01:28:45.000 So do you remember that tactic?

01:28:47.000 Remember what I said?

01:28:49.000 If you move slow enough, they won't pick it up.

01:28:51.000 Right, because they look for movement.

01:28:53.000 So we were moving like, you know, like an inch every 30 seconds.

01:28:57.000 We were like barely moving.

01:28:58.000 Because what I've found is animals, I've been in the wide open on a caribou, went right at it, but so slow, it was just like, that can't be anything.

01:29:08.000 Nothing does that.

01:29:09.000 Sideways movement.

01:29:10.000 No.

01:29:11.000 But steady and slow, and they just won't spook.

01:29:15.000 Yeah.

01:29:16.000 And we had to figure out where to stand.

01:29:19.000 And then when we got where we were, as we're standing there, we're standing there for quite a while.

01:29:23.000 I realized, oh, this sun is going to be impossible because it's slowly lowering in the sky.

01:29:29.000 And it's literally above this sable's head now.

01:29:32.000 And I'm like, okay, we don't get this thing to stand up.

01:29:34.000 I'm not going to be able to see it because I had my hat on, right?

01:29:37.000 So I blocked myself from the hat.

01:29:38.000 And then I was trying to train my eyes to just look at it through, you know, just like the haze of the sun.

01:29:44.000 I was like, this is going to be a real problem.

01:29:46.000 So we decided, let's get them to stand up.

01:29:48.000 So Cam took his arrow out of his quiver and started tapping on this branch and then started like moving towards it.

01:29:55.000 And sable are beasts, bro.

01:29:57.000 First of all, those motherfuckers, they kill lions occasionally.

01:30:01.000 Like they get attacked and they're they're fierce.

01:30:04.000 Like they're not, so it wasn't exactly easy to spook.

01:30:07.000 So you had to kind of like move towards a little bit.

01:30:07.000 Right.

01:30:10.000 And then it started grunting at you, like fuck off.

01:30:12.000 Fuck off, bitch.

01:30:13.000 Fuck off, bitch.

01:30:13.000 And then finally it stood up.

01:30:15.000 And when it stood up, we got them.

01:30:17.000 But it was, you know, it was a shot where I was like, I got to do this real soon because otherwise I'm not going to be able to see.

01:30:23.000 Fortunately, I could and I can get the pin right where it needed to be.

01:30:26.000 But it was like, I was, and I was telling you afterwards, I was like, I avoid shooting into the sun.

01:30:32.000 When I have my targets, I always put a target in the other way.

01:30:32.000 Yeah.

01:30:35.000 And I'm like, I can't do that anymore.

01:30:37.000 Now I have to start shooting into the sun sometimes.

01:30:39.000 Practice at all.

01:30:40.000 You got to get that feeling because that had happened also on a hunt with Tom Land.

01:30:45.000 We were up in Utah.

01:30:47.000 And this bull was a nice bull.

01:30:49.000 It was about 60 yards and it was coming across this ridge.

01:30:52.000 The sun was right in my eyes.

01:30:54.000 And he's like, why didn't you shoot?

01:30:55.000 I was like, I just couldn't.

01:30:57.000 It was too blurry.

01:30:58.000 It was too, the sun was right fucking there.

01:31:01.000 And I remember thinking that at that time, this was years ago, thinking at that time, I need to shoot into the sun.

01:31:07.000 And I never did.

01:31:08.000 Never did.

01:31:09.000 I was like, it won't come up.

01:31:10.000 I just won't take the shot.

01:31:11.000 I'll do what I did then.

01:31:12.000 I won't take the shot.

01:31:13.000 And if you're not comfortable, you don't have to take the shot.

01:31:15.000 But in this situation, I was like, I know, it's not a long shot.

01:31:19.000 It's only 28 yards.

01:31:20.000 And it's a big animal.

01:31:22.000 And I'm pretty confident I got this.

01:31:25.000 I was like, I got to factor all these things in and then not let doubt creep into my head.

01:31:30.000 You know, stay totally calm.

01:31:33.000 So there's all these things going on simultaneously.

01:31:35.000 It's a lot to manage.

01:31:35.000 That's a lot.

01:31:36.000 It's a lot.

01:31:37.000 But also a lot of factors to consider and then learn from.

01:31:42.000 Yeah.

01:31:42.000 Oh, I learned a lot from that hunt.

01:31:44.000 First of all, I learned how fucking tough Sable are.

01:31:44.000 I learned a lot.

01:31:47.000 That was the same experience I told you I had with Neil guy that I shot that Neil guy in South Texas and it ran like I didn't even hit it.

01:31:55.000 I hit it perfect.

01:31:56.000 The arrow went right through him.

01:31:57.000 It was the arrow.

01:31:58.000 We found the arrow 30 yards past where I hit.

01:32:01.000 It was covered in blood.

01:32:02.000 So we knew he was dead.

01:32:03.000 But he ran like he never even got hit.

01:32:05.000 He ran full speed like a cheetah.

01:32:08.000 It was crazy.

01:32:09.000 And the guide I was with is like, yeah, man, they grew up around tigers.

01:32:13.000 Like these things evolved around tigers.

01:32:16.000 Like they don't just take getting hit and go, oh no, I'm in trouble.

01:32:19.000 They fucking run.

01:32:20.000 They're so tough and they barely bleed.

01:32:23.000 That's the other thing about these animals that grow up around big predators.

01:32:27.000 Boy, they clog up their holes really quick.

01:32:30.000 They don't leave much of a blood trail.

01:32:31.000 It's not like an elk or a deer.

01:32:33.000 It's different.

01:32:34.000 Yeah.

01:32:35.000 I think Adam Addicts explains this well.

01:32:38.000 Sometimes you talk about when you hit them, if they're stretched out, then when they're not stretched out, it's like it just changes the entrance wound and the exit wound, if there is one, it just changes.

01:32:50.000 There's different layers of muscle and hide over it where it just blocks up that blood.

01:32:56.000 It seems like they clog up quicker too, just period.

01:32:59.000 Like whatever their anatomy is, the difference is when you hit them, they just don't bleed much.

01:33:04.000 Yeah, I got a buddy that always, you know, someone's like, it was a perfect shot.

01:33:07.000 And I was like, well, actually, it wasn't because it'd be dead already.

01:33:11.000 So it's like, and I know what you're saying, but the truth is double lungs is double lungs.

01:33:15.000 And there's so many variations, like that reaction, and they close up the gap.

01:33:18.000 Or what broader do you use?

01:33:20.000 And if the animal's breathing out when the arrow shoots through the lungs or whether it's just taking a bunch of oxygen in, you know, those are the larger target.

01:33:28.000 Yeah.

01:33:29.000 And there's all those different, plus just more energy to run on.

01:33:34.000 Right.

01:33:34.000 And then, you know, you'll see certain hunters that shoot something.

01:33:37.000 It's not even dead yet.

01:33:38.000 And they're like, yeah, and start yahoo.

01:33:39.000 And it's like, what?

01:33:40.000 Shut the fuck up.

01:33:42.000 Because that brings on an adrenaline rush.

01:33:44.000 Animals can run further.

01:33:45.000 Whereas you just want a nice, relaxed setup, you know, it's just a hit.

01:33:49.000 They don't know what's going on.

01:33:50.000 The beauty of the bow because it's so quiet.

01:33:52.000 There's not a loud gunshot behind it or anything.

01:33:55.000 And then, you know, just so they're relaxed.

01:33:57.000 They don't want to run as fast.

01:33:59.000 They want to give up earlier because they've got nothing to spook from or fight from.

01:34:03.000 So, you know, and they don't know what happened.

01:34:05.000 Yeah.

01:34:06.000 You know, sometimes they think they got jabbed by another bull or something.

01:34:08.000 Like, what happened?

01:34:09.000 Yeah.

01:34:10.000 Everything's crazy.

01:34:11.000 They're all rutting and screaming at each other and clashing antlers.

01:34:14.000 And then all of a sudden, whack, like, what the fuck is that?

01:34:16.000 Right.

01:34:17.000 Utah this year, the bull that I shot, he'd just been in the fight with another bull.

01:34:22.000 So he was all revved up from that other bull.

01:34:24.000 So I literally hit him and he just thought he got poked by an antler from another bull, you know, and he went 20 yards, was standing for 14 seconds, dropped dead, nice, beautiful, peaceful, right in front of me.

01:34:34.000 They don't all happen like that, but that's what we're after.

01:34:37.000 That's how you practice.

01:34:37.000 That's what you're after.

01:34:38.000 That's why you shoot so many arrows.

01:34:40.000 To have it drop right in front of you is the greatest thing ever.

01:34:43.000 And I think that does impact the taste of the meat, too.

01:34:46.000 If you don't have them shoot that adrenaline back through their body where it's a peaceful death, I think it does impact the taste.

01:34:54.000 That's what they say.

01:34:55.000 Yeah.

01:34:55.000 It makes sense.

01:34:57.000 I mean, don't they do that with when they want to call animals?

01:35:00.000 Like what, or if they want to shoot animals rather than not call them shoot them for commercial purposes, they shoot them in the head, right?

01:35:06.000 Yeah.

01:35:07.000 They put a bolt in their head.

01:35:08.000 But yeah, I mean, no, I mean, like, like in Melanes.

01:35:12.000 Like when they shoot like Axis deer from the battle.

01:35:13.000 Yeah, they shoot them in the head.

01:35:15.000 Definitely.

01:35:16.000 No, but like even like when they kill cattle, they're not getting those things wacky.

01:35:20.000 Right, of course.

01:35:21.000 Of course.

01:35:21.000 You want them to be as calm as possible.

01:35:23.000 The opposite of what that mountain lion did to that cow.

01:35:27.000 Imagine eating that.

01:35:28.000 Yeah.

01:35:28.000 Imagine you ate that cow.

01:35:29.000 That guy would be like, I got anxiety.

01:35:32.000 Probably.

01:35:33.000 He's probably in the meat itself.

01:35:35.000 I got issues.

01:35:37.000 Taking it back to the health journey, how you were saying, like, you know, where we are now with, you know, modern treatments and wellness is incredible.

01:35:44.000 Like, I feel like my, I feel like my body's the best it's ever been.

01:35:48.000 You know, and I'm obviously the oldest I've ever been, which is crazy to think of.

01:35:52.000 Like, how can I feel better than I do?

01:35:56.000 How can I feel better now than I did in my early 20s?

01:35:59.000 You know, we've probably out any injuries and stuff like that.

01:36:02.000 So it's quite, and I've got you to thank for that by introducing me to Brigham and Ways the Well.

01:36:06.000 So oh, my pleasure.

01:36:07.000 I want more people to know about it.

01:36:09.000 I want everybody to be healthy.

01:36:10.000 It's possible.

01:36:11.000 Yeah.

01:36:11.000 You can get healthier.

01:36:12.000 Like, look at Jelly Roll.

01:36:13.000 The guy was 500 plus pounds.

01:36:15.000 And now he's running.

01:36:17.000 Now he's 10K the day before he came to the studio.

01:36:22.000 And then when we went to the gym together and he ran 2.6 miles on the treadmill while he was talking, we're laughing.

01:36:29.000 He's joking around.

01:36:30.000 They don't know me, son.

01:36:32.000 He's having a good old time.

01:36:33.000 And, you know, he just seems so happy.

01:36:35.000 We got in the sauna together.

01:36:36.000 We're laughing.

01:36:37.000 It's like he's just a different guy.

01:36:39.000 He's got so much.

01:36:42.000 He's so excited about this journey that he's on.

01:36:45.000 This journey of self-improvement, this journey of health.

01:36:48.000 You know, he's going to be there for his kids.

01:36:50.000 He's going to be there for his wife now.

01:36:51.000 He's worried about dying before.

01:36:53.000 You know, he told a story about laying on his arm and he couldn't get up.

01:36:57.000 He was trapped and he didn't have in bed.

01:37:00.000 He couldn't get up.

01:37:02.000 He couldn't, couldn't, and he thought he was going to die.

01:37:04.000 He's like, I'm so big that I'm laid on my arm and I don't have the strength to get out of this position because I'm so big.

01:37:10.000 What a change.

01:37:11.000 And now he's running and bow hunting.

01:37:13.000 Yeah, he's substance now.

01:37:15.000 Like that's like that substance will just keep him going, you know, to find those things and what makes him happy.

01:37:21.000 And you know, the problem is a lot of people oftentimes compare themselves to other people that are already on that path.

01:37:27.000 This is another thing that we talked about.

01:37:30.000 You just get on the path.

01:37:32.000 Don't worry about how people are ahead of you.

01:37:34.000 Just you be ahead of yourself.

01:37:36.000 Next week, you're ahead of where you were this week.

01:37:38.000 The week after that, you'll be ahead of you.

01:37:40.000 It's just a path.

01:37:42.000 So what if other people have been on the path further than you?

01:37:45.000 Like, that's how you get better at stuff.

01:37:47.000 And that is what's exciting about life is this path of improvement.

01:37:51.000 And whatever you do, and actually being a human being, be a better human.

01:37:56.000 You can do that.

01:37:57.000 Everybody can get on that path.

01:37:59.000 Yeah.

01:37:59.000 It's just that's what I told Jelly is that, you know, you can wander around off the path for your whole life and never really have like fucking never really figured it out.

01:38:11.000 But once you make it, like where he's on, you know, being healthy, eating better, exercising, he, you know, the mountains have given him, I always say the mountains heal or nature heals.

01:38:23.000 So he's there now.

01:38:24.000 It's like, yeah, of course there's people who are way ahead because they've been on it longer.

01:38:28.000 There's people who are not quite on it.

01:38:29.000 Maybe they're going to be faster than him and they pass him, but all on the right path, head in the right direction, that's a beautiful place to be.

01:38:36.000 And that's where he's at.

01:38:37.000 It is.

01:38:37.000 And one of the things that I said to Jelly when we're on the podcast, I was like, what you're doing is inspiring millions of people to live a better life.

01:38:46.000 100%.

01:38:47.000 What you're doing is so beneficial to human beings all over the world because now millions of people have seen that podcast.

01:38:56.000 Millions of people have heard that story.

01:38:58.000 Millions of people have seen those clips that have been shared all throughout social media.

01:39:01.000 And how many people got excited by that?

01:39:04.000 And it gave them fuel and energy to want to go do something.

01:39:08.000 It gave them that inspiration that we all desperately crave to want to go out and take those first fucking steps.

01:39:14.000 And then once you do that, then you're operating on momentum and it's so much easier.

01:39:19.000 This is another thing that people have to understand.

01:39:21.000 The first steps are the hardest.

01:39:24.000 It's so hard to move.

01:39:26.000 It's so hard to get going.

01:39:28.000 But once you get going, then you operate on momentum.

01:39:31.000 Once you have a good day, then you go, I did it.

01:39:34.000 I had a good day.

01:39:35.000 Let's do it again tomorrow.

01:39:37.000 And then you get excited about it and you look forward to waking up.

01:39:40.000 And then you get through it that day, like, we fucking did it again.

01:39:43.000 And now I'm looking forward to, now I'm eating healthier.

01:39:46.000 Now I cut off the sugar.

01:39:47.000 Now I'm drinking water with electrolytes.

01:39:49.000 And now I'm feeling better.

01:39:51.000 I have more energy.

01:39:52.000 And just keep going.

01:39:53.000 Just keep going.

01:39:54.000 And momentum is so much easier than that first step.

01:39:57.000 The first step of changing your life is so hard because we're just so afraid of pain.

01:40:03.000 We're so afraid of suffering.

01:40:05.000 We're so afraid of like just the discomfort.

01:40:08.000 We've been programmed to think that discomfort is a bad thing.

01:40:11.000 It's not.

01:40:12.000 It's not.

01:40:13.000 It's necessary.

01:40:15.000 I think that Joey Roll might, I mean, I think we've talked about this, but could he impact more people than anyone ever has in that regard?

01:40:25.000 100%.

01:40:25.000 We were talking about that today.

01:40:27.000 100%.

01:40:28.000 Because it's like, it's not like, you know, even Israel or your favorite NFL guy or NBA, they're elite, right?

01:40:35.000 So when they succeed, you're like, oh, fuck, of course.

01:40:38.000 You know, he's 6'8, 260.

01:40:40.000 Of course he's going to be great.

01:40:41.000 But when you see somebody like Joey Roll who came from 540 pounds, that's like he's already at the furthest end of like, you know, like what you'd have to overcome.

01:40:55.000 And for him to do that, anybody else is closer to the goal than he was at that time.

01:40:55.000 Yes.

01:41:01.000 So it's like, nobody's in worse shape, really.

01:41:05.000 You know, you're literally morbidly opium.

01:41:05.000 Right.

01:41:07.000 You can't be in worse shape.

01:41:10.000 And if he's doing it, everyone can do it.

01:41:14.000 Everyone who has, who has that something inside him, and maybe he's going to give them that something.

01:41:20.000 And he's way more famous than anybody who's ever done this before.

01:41:20.000 100%.

01:41:24.000 That's the most important aspect of it.

01:41:26.000 He's loved by so many people.

01:41:28.000 So how many Jelly Roll fans loved him because he was like them?

01:41:32.000 He was big like them.

01:41:34.000 Super talented, amazing guy who was also big.

01:41:37.000 Like, oh my God, I thought I was a big slob and no one's going to love me.

01:41:41.000 Meanwhile, everybody loves Jelly Roll.

01:41:43.000 So they love Jelly Roll.

01:41:43.000 And then all of a sudden, Jelly Roll has changed his life.

01:41:45.000 Like, how many people are sitting there watching him and listening to him going, I think I could do it.

01:41:51.000 He did it.

01:41:52.000 I think I can do it.

01:41:53.000 And you just do it the way he did.

01:41:54.000 He didn't start out running marathons.

01:41:57.000 He tried to go for a walk.

01:41:58.000 Yeah, you know, I mean, he would call his walk his run because he couldn't run.

01:42:02.000 Right.

01:42:02.000 But he'd say, tell his family, his wife, and that he's going to go out on his run.

01:42:06.000 There's not one step of running, but the mindset, the story he told himself was he was running.

01:42:15.000 So it's that self-talk.

01:42:16.000 You know, how we talk to ourselves is important.

01:42:18.000 So he would tell himself, I'm going to go run, even though there's not a step of running involved.

01:42:24.000 But that led to running.

01:42:26.000 That mindset, that approach of like, I'm winning today.

01:42:30.000 I'm winning.

01:42:31.000 It's not a run, it's a walk, but it's going to be a run.

01:42:34.000 That's got to be a massive mental achievement for him, too, because I'm sure that he had a lot of mind weight to lose as well because he was in jail, right?

01:42:43.000 Substance abuse, no doubt.

01:42:45.000 Probably a lot of like that's a lot of negative stuff in someone's head.

01:42:49.000 So to lose that as well, and you told me that he's such a positive person.

01:42:54.000 So to like, you know, he lost a bunch of weight, which is incredible, but what he's done to his mind, which we may never know, is really incredible too.

01:43:04.000 Like, like that's why I was saying to you this morning, this might be one of the best modern day stories of a person changing their life when you look at Jelly.

01:43:13.000 Yeah.

01:43:14.000 And you couldn't be a better representative of someone who has gone through the struggle and then come out this amazing person.

01:43:25.000 Like he's an amazing guy.

01:43:27.000 Like there's very few humans that are so kind and friendly and warm.

01:43:31.000 And when he hugs you, he hugs you with his soul.

01:43:34.000 Like he hugs you with his whole body and his soul.

01:43:37.000 He's like a perfect person to be the inspiration for people to improve their life.

01:43:43.000 Well, and that was so touching.

01:43:46.000 Like when you shared the Grand Old Opry inclusion for Jelly Roll from Craig Morgan, and he said, Joe, can I get a hug?

01:43:56.000 I mean, two men.

01:43:59.000 And to me, that was like so endearing, but also so important to show that it's okay for men to say, yeah.

01:44:07.000 Yeah.

01:44:08.000 Can I get a hug?

01:44:09.000 I mean, it was a man crying.

01:44:11.000 It was one of the most inspirational things you could ever watch.

01:44:14.000 I mean, but it takes a certain type, or it's one of one who does stuff like that, like him.

01:44:21.000 His heart.

01:44:22.000 That's what I say.

01:44:23.000 He's a big man, but he's got the biggest heart of anybody I've ever met.

01:44:27.000 And that was an example of it.

01:44:28.000 Like, he just wanted love.

01:44:31.000 Yeah.

01:44:34.000 He's a very important figure in our culture.

01:44:36.000 He really is.

01:44:37.000 He really is.

01:44:38.000 You know, especially now.

01:44:40.000 I mean, he always was.

01:44:41.000 His music just alone is important because it's beautiful music.

01:44:45.000 But the beautiful music is the expression of a beautiful soul.

01:44:49.000 And now he's also on this path of self-improvement.

01:44:52.000 And it's amazing.

01:44:54.000 That title of his album, Beautifully Broken.

01:44:54.000 Yeah.

01:44:57.000 I mean, it's so perfect.

01:44:59.000 And he was broken.

01:45:02.000 Probably will always be broken in some ways.

01:45:04.000 We all are.

01:45:05.000 But he's putting himself back together, and man, he's...

01:45:08.000 Are we all broken, or do we all have negative thoughts from the past?

01:45:12.000 Are we telling ourselves we're broken?

01:45:13.000 Yeah.

01:45:13.000 Maybe that's it.

01:45:14.000 Maybe that's our self-talk.

01:45:15.000 Obviously, we're functional, so we're not broken.

01:45:17.000 You know, it's not that we're broken.

01:45:18.000 It's just the doubt, the self-doubt.

01:45:20.000 Well, everyone's going to, you're going to, you're, it's like you're a human being.

01:45:25.000 The only way you figure out how to get good at something is you have to, it has to be a puzzle.

01:45:28.000 Puzzles include doubt.

01:45:30.000 Yeah.

01:45:31.000 It's always going to be there.

01:45:34.000 There's no getting around it.

01:45:36.000 No, it's not.

01:45:38.000 But it's part, it ends up being the beauty of it, right?

01:45:40.000 Yes, that's it.

01:45:41.000 That's the beauty of it.

01:45:42.000 And then whatever you do, you don't have to bow hunt.

01:45:45.000 It's like you probably should.

01:45:47.000 But you don't have to.

01:45:48.000 It could be anything else.

01:45:49.000 But yeah, just any struggle in life.

01:45:51.000 You know, that's how I look at anything like that.

01:45:53.000 That's testing or trialing.

01:45:56.000 And it should be interesting for you, too.

01:45:58.000 It should be an interesting thing.

01:46:01.000 People also have this weird habit of looking at the mind in terms of only being valuable in human-created endeavors.

01:46:11.000 Like the mind only being valuable in mathematics, the mind only being valuable in your ability to recite literature and your knowledge that you've gained through schooling.

01:46:22.000 Like, no, no, the mind, the mind manages stressful situations too.

01:46:28.000 That's an important aspect of intelligence is your intelligence in being able to navigate difficult things.

01:46:36.000 That is all your mind.

01:46:38.000 You're using your mind.

01:46:40.000 Like, bow hunting has so much, so many elements of intelligence that are woven into it.

01:46:49.000 And the difference between a successful person who bow hunts and an unsuccessful person is experience and practice, but also the mind being able to learn from each individual situation and experience and get better and accumulate all this knowledge over time.

01:47:07.000 You know, it's got a deep, deep learning curve.

01:47:10.000 It's very deep.

01:47:12.000 And the people that don't experience it and then have this classification in their head of what intelligence is.

01:47:18.000 Intelligence means you got a PhD.

01:47:20.000 I know a lot of people with PhD that are fools.

01:47:22.000 They're fools.

01:47:23.000 They're emotional children.

01:47:25.000 They're filled with ego and resentment and they're shitty and nasty to people.

01:47:30.000 They're fools.

01:47:31.000 So they're not smart.

01:47:33.000 They're just, they have a functional mind that they've applied to human endeavors only.

01:47:39.000 And they've never done the big thing, never done the whole package, never put it all together.

01:47:46.000 Yeah.

01:47:47.000 And I think another key to being intelligent, I don't know if it's the key, but having kids, I think, is a big part of growth.

01:47:57.000 And to me, it's like I lump like intelligence, just life experience into the package we'd call intelligence.

01:48:06.000 But like hunting teaches us that, of course, but also raising kids and being responsible for a family.

01:48:13.000 Oh, yeah.

01:48:14.000 I think that's another.

01:48:15.000 It's like, yeah, school doesn't teach you that shit.

01:48:18.000 And the degree you got doesn't signify that.

01:48:23.000 But I don't know.

01:48:24.000 I think that's a big part of it, too.

01:48:26.000 It's a giant learning experience, that's for damn sure.

01:48:29.000 And it also teaches you way more compassion.

01:48:32.000 It just teaches you to be way more loving and kind.

01:48:36.000 And you also just, you understand from watching a baby become an amazing adult human being, you get to understand all the elements that are involved in this child's development and all the trials and tribulations.

01:48:49.000 How you got to let them fall sometimes and then help them pick themselves back up and talk to them through it.

01:48:56.000 And when they're down, explain, like, I've been down too.

01:48:59.000 I'm always down.

01:49:00.000 I've fucked up everything.

01:49:02.000 Whenever my kids would do anything wrong, one of the things I'd always say to them, if I was upset at them, I said, listen, I did everything that you did.

01:49:08.000 I've done all this stuff.

01:49:09.000 It's okay.

01:49:10.000 But you can't do it and this is why.

01:49:12.000 Like, I've screwed up everything.

01:49:14.000 I've done things I shouldn't have done.

01:49:16.000 I'm doing exactly what you're doing right now.

01:49:18.000 I've done it even worse.

01:49:19.000 You're a better kid than I was.

01:49:21.000 I always say that.

01:49:22.000 So they don't think that I'm without fault.

01:49:24.000 I always say, I've done it all, but I got through it on the other side.

01:49:27.000 Now I'm your dad.

01:49:28.000 And the reason why I'm telling you this is because I love you.

01:49:30.000 And I'm not trying to be upset at you because I'm mean.

01:49:35.000 I'm trying to help you live a better life.

01:49:38.000 And that's how I try to communicate with them about it.

01:49:41.000 So in my head, that perspective opens up other lanes of intelligence.

01:49:47.000 That's what I'm saying.

01:49:49.000 It's like you can't be your highest form without that.

01:49:53.000 Right.

01:49:54.000 You're challenged.

01:49:54.000 You're challenged by and you're also challenged by the discipline of it.

01:49:59.000 You know, you have people that rely on you, and that is, you can't fuck that off.

01:50:04.000 You can't just like not show up for work.

01:50:06.000 You can't just, you know, I just feel like sleeping in today and fucking, I'm taking a month off.

01:50:11.000 Like, you can't do that.

01:50:12.000 You have people that rely on you.

01:50:13.000 And also, you're setting an example for them that they're going to learn from.

01:50:17.000 The people that, and your kids are a great example of that.

01:50:20.000 The children of people that are very disciplined almost always have a higher threshold of discipline.

01:50:26.000 I notice it.

01:50:27.000 I see it in your kids for sure.

01:50:29.000 I see it in my kids.

01:50:31.000 They have more of an understanding of what's necessary in order to get things done and to be successful.

01:50:38.000 Now, if you're a person who's a parent and you shirk every responsibility, you lie, you steal, you do things.

01:50:48.000 You take shortcuts.

01:50:50.000 You're not truthful.

01:50:52.000 Whatever you're doing, where your kids get to see, like, oh, my parent is a kind of a fuckhead.

01:50:57.000 You know, my parent is kind of one of two things happens.

01:51:00.000 Either you emulate your parents and you be kind of a fuckhead, or you go, I don't like that.

01:51:05.000 And I'm never going to be like that.

01:51:06.000 Like, some of my friends that grew up with alcoholic parents, they've never had a drink in their fucking life and they never will.

01:51:11.000 They're like, I am never touching that shit.

01:51:13.000 I see what that's like because I saw my dad lose his fucking job, lose his house, lose this, lose that, get arrested for DWI, get in a bar fight.

01:51:22.000 My dad's a fucking loser, and I'm not going to be that guy.

01:51:26.000 But it's a toss-up.

01:51:28.000 Or some might emulate that.

01:51:30.000 Some might emulate it.

01:51:31.000 Yeah, I mean, you see your dad's a drug addict.

01:51:33.000 You're like, let me try it.

01:51:34.000 I grew up like that with a couple of closer friends.

01:51:37.000 And these closer friends were like, I'm never going to be like my dad.

01:51:41.000 Like, to the core, we'll like that.

01:51:44.000 We're never going to be like our fathers.

01:51:46.000 And that's one of the reasons I don't drink because my father was a horrible alcoholic.

01:51:51.000 And even though when I drink, I'm happy, I'm just turned off it.

01:51:55.000 So I don't want to do it.

01:51:56.000 And I guess I've gone long enough now that it doesn't interest me.

01:51:59.000 And then I had another friend that I cut off because he turned out to be exactly like his dad.

01:52:05.000 And even though he, the whole time he was like me, I'm never going to be like my father.

01:52:09.000 I'm going to be the opposite.

01:52:10.000 For some reason, some people just go down the same path.

01:52:14.000 I think it's also the stress of life.

01:52:16.000 Sometimes it's overwhelming.

01:52:17.000 You know, this thing that we look forward to in bow hunting, this like not knowing what's going to happen.

01:52:22.000 Like you get out there, it's early in the morning, you put your pack on, you know, what's going to happen today?

01:52:26.000 Who knows?

01:52:27.000 Some people hate that feeling.

01:52:29.000 They hate that feeling of not knowing what's going to happen.

01:52:29.000 Right.

01:52:31.000 And the uncertainty about your career and job is a weird uncertainty.

01:52:36.000 It depends on so many factors that are sometimes out of your control.

01:52:39.000 And people just, they get overwhelmed and they just want to escape.

01:52:42.000 They just want to escape.

01:52:43.000 And maybe they're doing a job they don't enjoy doing.

01:52:45.000 And then the only time they feel good is when they're drunk.

01:52:48.000 So they just get off work and they can't wait to meet their boys and have a laugh.

01:52:52.000 And next thing you know, you're drinking and one day turns into a month and that's your drug.

01:52:56.000 It's just, that's distraction.

01:52:58.000 They want to be distracted off their life or whatever.

01:53:01.000 In this world, we'll give you a lot of distractions.

01:53:03.000 You could play video games and fucking get hammered and do heroin.

01:53:08.000 Yeah, whatever it is.

01:53:09.000 Fill in the blank, man.

01:53:10.000 You could find a lot of stuff that's not going to be beneficial for you.

01:53:14.000 Yeah, it's one thing that I think the, well, drinking and whatever, but I think the biggest negative thing a parent can offer their kids is blaming other people.

01:53:30.000 It's always somebody else's fault.

01:53:32.000 So it's like this discussion at the house, you know, because kids hear everything, right?

01:53:37.000 So when the dad's coming home and he's bitching about his boss or the guy at work or he's getting fucked over for this or I could do that too, but that guy kissed ass.

01:53:45.000 That's why he got that or the must-be-nice, whatever.

01:53:49.000 Like these excuse makers, oh, you're just fucking sabotaging your kids.

01:53:54.000 It's just that you never get anywhere by blaming other people for where you're at.

01:54:00.000 And so many people do that because they won't accept personal responsibility for their actions or for their place in life.

01:54:06.000 And I don't even think necessarily it's their fault.

01:54:09.000 I think a lot of them have never seen an example of an extraordinary person who doesn't do that.

01:54:15.000 It's rare to find a person, unfortunately, in this world, especially in society.

01:54:21.000 It's rare to find a person of great character, a person who's just got impeccable character and is always truthful and works really hard and is loved by a lot of people.

01:54:31.000 It's rare.

01:54:32.000 It's rare.

01:54:33.000 And so they've never experienced it.

01:54:34.000 They've never been around it.

01:54:36.000 And so they don't even know what it is.

01:54:37.000 Right.

01:54:38.000 They don't know that they're sabotaging.

01:54:39.000 Yeah.

01:54:40.000 And sometimes that's one of the real places where a guy like Jelly Roll can change people's lives.

01:54:47.000 It's because he does talk about all of the negative shit that he's experienced and all the negative influences and all the bad people that he was around and how he was living that life.

01:54:57.000 He was trapped in that way.

01:54:59.000 And now he's not anymore.

01:55:01.000 And he's so the big things.

01:55:05.000 Substance, criminal, lie, overweight, all those, those are usually the big things.

01:55:13.000 And he overcame all of them.

01:55:14.000 All of them.

01:55:15.000 So it's like, that's where that power comes from where to influence so many people.

01:55:20.000 It's because, so what was your issue again?

01:55:23.000 Yeah.

01:55:23.000 Well, Jelly Roll, yeah, he overcame that.

01:55:25.000 Wait, was there something else?

01:55:27.000 Oh, that too?

01:55:28.000 I mean, it's everything.

01:55:29.000 All the big things he's overcome.

01:55:32.000 So what else is there?

01:55:33.000 What else are you going to blame?

01:55:35.000 You just got to find the thing.

01:55:37.000 Find a thing.

01:55:37.000 Get on the path.

01:55:39.000 Get moving.

01:55:40.000 On the path.

01:55:41.000 Get moving, bitch.

01:55:41.000 I'm going to go to the buffer room.

01:55:42.000 Sorry, Let's.

01:55:43.000 All right.

01:55:43.000 What?

01:55:44.000 See, I told you.

01:55:45.000 It's got that Australian bladder.

01:55:47.000 It's upside down.

01:55:48.000 No, it's the IV.

01:55:49.000 I told him, I said, hey, put all that shit in like this much whatever fluid because I don't want to have to take a piss.

01:55:56.000 I wonder if it works as good that way.

01:55:58.000 They made it super concentrated.

01:56:00.000 Yeah, they did.

01:56:00.000 Did they really?

01:56:01.000 That's hilarious.

01:56:02.000 Why don't they just like wait and pee?

01:56:03.000 I don't mind peeing.

01:56:04.000 But every time I've done that, when I come here after an IV, I do the same thing after pee.

01:56:09.000 Yeah, I know.

01:56:09.000 Or after the sauna, because after the sauna, I always drink this giant 64-ounce thing of water and electrolytes.

01:56:16.000 And then like an hour and a half into the podcast, I'm like, oh, no.

01:56:20.000 That hits.

01:56:20.000 Jellyroll had, he learned that lesson in the blind because we were sitting for hours.

01:56:25.000 And like, if you haven't ever been in a position where, you know, you can't just get out and go pee or whatever, then you're like, ooh, I didn't know what this is.

01:56:35.000 Holding, you know, he said he was going to piss his pants.

01:56:39.000 He's like, had to make a hole in the blind and pee into and cover it up with, because I was like, okay, just make a little hole covered up with dirt, whatever.

01:56:47.000 And that's what he did.

01:56:48.000 But yeah, it's pretty.

01:56:49.000 When you got a piss, it can be miserable.

01:56:51.000 Well, there's a mental challenge of sitting still for long periods of time.

01:56:55.000 Like I've only tree stand hunted once.

01:56:57.000 I did it at Dudley's place in Iowa.

01:57:00.000 And the thing about Iowa is, first of all, it's in November that you're hunting and it's so fucking cold.

01:57:07.000 It's so cold.

01:57:08.000 And you have to sit still.

01:57:09.000 Right.

01:57:10.000 You can't fucking move a muscle.

01:57:12.000 And you're out there for hours and hours and hours just hoping a deer gets it within bow range.

01:57:18.000 And the only reason why they do is just they just happen to be wandering.

01:57:22.000 Right.

01:57:22.000 And it's total luck.

01:57:24.000 It's complete luck.

01:57:26.000 I mean, that's why those guys, like a lot of those like real psycho Lee Lukoski guys, they, they, they'll out, they're out there for months at a time.

01:57:33.000 Yeah.

01:57:34.000 They'll hunt a single buck for like 38 days or however long the season is.

01:57:37.000 And they're in that damn blind every day or they're in that tree stand every day, just squeezing their dick off, just huddling up with mittens and shit.

01:57:45.000 And then when the, and sometimes when if you have like a powerful bow, like you pull back, like when it's zero degrees outside and you go to pull that thing back, you're like, tough.

01:57:57.000 You might not get it back.

01:57:59.000 Like, oh, no.

01:58:00.000 Yeah.

01:58:00.000 Oh, no.

01:58:01.000 And that's a helpless feeling.

01:58:03.000 Oh, no.

01:58:04.000 Nowadays, so back in the day, back when I used to, you know, I still tree stand hunt, you know, for blacktail sometimes, but phones have changed like how long you can stay because you can just fuck around on your phone now.

01:58:15.000 Oh, that's true.

01:58:16.000 And then also, there's heated vests, heated socks.

01:58:21.000 Yeah.

01:58:21.000 So you can have like, it's still just standing in a tree or sitting in a tree for 14 hours, terrible.

01:58:29.000 Still terrible.

01:58:30.000 Even with all that stuff.

01:58:30.000 Terrible.

01:58:31.000 It's a little easier, but pretty terrible.

01:58:35.000 Well, thankfully, gear's a lot better too.

01:58:37.000 Like layering systems and you could stay like, you could stay alive.

01:58:41.000 Let me put it that way.

01:58:42.000 You're not going to be comfortable, but you could stay alive out there.

01:58:46.000 It's zero degrees sitting still.

01:58:48.000 Dude, I didn't.

01:58:49.000 So I, you know, signed on with Sitka now, but I hadn't, I had other things.

01:58:54.000 I was, you know, under armor, different, whatever.

01:58:57.000 And I guess I had never had good gear my entire life because I didn't fucking know I didn't have to be miserable in a tree stand.

01:59:06.000 And so Sitka sent me, I don't know what it is.

01:59:09.000 It's like some sideways zip jacket or, yeah, it's a jacket.

01:59:14.000 I can't remember what it's called, but it's polar fleece.

01:59:17.000 And I was like up there going, I don't fucking feel good.

01:59:22.000 I'm not freezing.

01:59:23.000 And I had never, so like I said, I've bow hunted my whole life.

01:59:27.000 I guess always just had like shit that wasn't the best and just thought, ah, it's part of the deal.

01:59:32.000 Not just that.

01:59:32.000 It doesn't restrict any of your movement.

01:59:34.000 No, I used to have to wear like fucking seven hoodies, right?

01:59:39.000 Trying to pull a bow with seven hoodies on, but that's how I had to stay warm.

01:59:42.000 So with the Sitka stuff with John Barclays, and he's kind of into design and he's a bow hunter himself.

01:59:49.000 But I can have this shit on and it's not restrictive.

01:59:53.000 I can pull my bow.

01:59:54.000 And, you know, it's not, this isn't like a fucking ad for Sitka.

01:59:57.000 There's, if there's other stuff out there that does that too, great.

02:00:00.000 I just don't know about it because I'd never had it.

02:00:02.000 But man, that shit works good.

02:00:04.000 There's a bunch of high-level gear that's out there, but it's like whatever they've done with Sitka, they've made it so that everything works perfectly.

02:00:12.000 They've dialed it in perfectly.

02:00:13.000 The pants, they have the built-in knee pads, which is fucking huge.

02:00:17.000 I love those pants.

02:00:18.000 So when you're crawling on, like, they're the perfect knee pads.

02:00:21.000 They're super lightweight, but you could sneak around on stuff on your knees and not be in fucking agony.

02:00:26.000 Right.

02:00:27.000 And it doesn't restrict your movement at all.

02:00:29.000 The level of detail they have now on these clothes is more fitted.

02:00:34.000 You know, I remember like stuff that we used to use.

02:00:37.000 We used to complain about it together, but it's like, who are they making these pants for when the legs are that wide at the bottom still?

02:00:43.000 So you're walking along hunting and it's just like bell bottoms.

02:00:47.000 And they get wet.

02:00:48.000 They're fucking flopping around and shit.

02:00:50.000 It makes me so pissed.

02:00:51.000 I would take pictures and send a kid when he was at Under Armour or like the pocket or something.

02:00:56.000 I'm like, what the fuck is going on?

02:00:59.000 But yeah, this stuff fits good.

02:01:02.000 Yeah.

02:01:03.000 Well, it's just, I mean, that's one of the reasons to give them props so that they stay open, stay alive, because it's like that kind of gear is so fucking important.

02:01:12.000 You know, to have gear that doesn't restrict your movement, totally keeps you comfortable and warm, makes you like, so you can move around very quietly.

02:01:22.000 Whatever fabrics they're using, they got it dialed in, man.

02:01:25.000 When you're walking, if your fabric rubs together, you don't hear a fucking thing.

02:01:28.000 Yeah.

02:01:29.000 And again, time's precious and we're doing stuff in this time.

02:01:32.000 We want to enjoy it.

02:01:33.000 So we're in gear that makes us enjoy it.

02:01:35.000 It's great.

02:01:36.000 But it's just the market for this.

02:01:39.000 This is like one of the things that really Is, I think, important.

02:01:45.000 Like the market for these things that are so impactful and important to us is not a.

02:01:51.000 Did I just touch the microphone?

02:01:53.000 Did I fuck something up?

02:01:54.000 Sounded weird on my end.

02:01:57.000 It's not a big market.

02:01:58.000 There's not a lot of us out there, you know?

02:02:00.000 So it's like, God, I'm so thankful that someone put so much research and development into these products, whether it's Hoit Bows or whatever you're using, that you like, you got to think like how many people had to work tirelessly to figure out how to make this thing that is so critical to your success.

02:02:19.000 You know, fill in the blank, binos, like whatever it is, whatever you're using.

02:02:24.000 Who fucking figured out how to make binoculars?

02:02:26.000 How about the SIG ones that have image stabilizing now?

02:02:29.000 Who figured that out?

02:02:30.000 Who's what wizard, what wizard scientist?

02:02:33.000 I got a pair of those 16-power SIGs, the Zulus.

02:02:38.000 You hit that switch and turn on the image stabilization.

02:02:42.000 And normally, if you're holding, for people who don't know, if you're holding 16-power binos in your hand, your image that you're getting on the other end is all wiggly.

02:02:51.000 It's 16 times larger than what you actually see.

02:02:54.000 So every micro movement is a giant jiggle in your eyesight, in your eye picture.

02:03:00.000 But with those things, it's like you're watching a movie.

02:03:03.000 It's like fully locked in, like it's on a tripod.

02:03:06.000 It's crazy.

02:03:07.000 Yeah, I was looking for friends and I'm like, and I was like, look, the glass isn't as good in them.

02:03:13.000 And I'm saying that to him, you know, and then, because I'm looking through my crystal clear.

02:03:18.000 And maybe the glass isn't as good in them, but because the image is dead still, so I'm doing this, I'm putting mine up, and I'm like, it's really clear.

02:03:25.000 And then I put that up and I'm like, they're not as clear.

02:03:28.000 No, you have to turn the button on.

02:03:29.000 And then I press the button on.

02:03:30.000 It's like, oh, fuck.

02:03:31.000 They're better.

02:03:33.000 Because the image is still.

02:03:34.000 So you're really getting to look at it.

02:03:37.000 It's going to be the future.

02:03:39.000 Swarovski's now doing it with spotting scopes.

02:03:42.000 So they have a handheld spotting scope that completely stabilizes the image.

02:03:46.000 And there's no tripod.

02:03:47.000 No tripod.

02:03:48.000 I mean, you hold like a 65-power spotting scope and you can look around like this, which is crazy.

02:03:56.000 Crazy.

02:03:56.000 And the reason why that's so critical to a hunter is we look for movement just like an animal looks for us moving too quickly, but we look for movement like an ear flick or a tail wag or something like, or they'll sometimes they're high just if they got a fly lands on them.

02:04:13.000 So you're looking for like a small little bit of movement.

02:04:17.000 You can't do that if you're but not if you've got movement in your optics.

02:04:21.000 But with that stabilization, it's dead solid.

02:04:24.000 So you can see when that ear flicks where it'd be flicking before, you just didn't notice it.

02:04:29.000 So that's where it's like so critical.

02:04:31.000 But if you think about all this stuff, this top of the line stuff that we talked about with the bows, the camo, the binos, bow hunting fucking still is so hard.

02:04:42.000 Still hard.

02:04:44.000 That's what's so beautiful about it: it's so challenging.

02:04:48.000 I don't care about it.

02:04:49.000 All this stuff is great.

02:04:50.000 No matter what you do, you're going to stink.

02:04:52.000 And if the wind catches the back of your neck and you see that animal's head pop up, it's a wrap.

02:04:57.000 They're designed to get the fuck away from any funky smells of things that eat meat.

02:05:02.000 I'm out of here.

02:05:02.000 Not interested.

02:05:03.000 Pow!

02:05:04.000 They smell us, bribe.

02:05:05.000 We must spank.

02:05:07.000 We must fucking smell like hot death to them.

02:05:09.000 Oh, yeah.

02:05:10.000 Because when you see an elk or a deer catches a whiff of you and their head is like, oh, no.

02:05:15.000 Or what is this fucking?

02:05:18.000 Oh, they don't even have to think that long about it.

02:05:21.000 And you know, they keep making these rules to try to make bow hunting harder, like eliminating certain things like that Garmin site.

02:05:27.000 I used to love using that Garmin range finding site, and then they made it outlawed in Utah.

02:05:32.000 I'm like, oh, guys, come on.

02:05:34.000 Like, this doesn't make it any easier.

02:05:36.000 It just makes it so that you're going to wound less things and have more effective shots.

02:05:41.000 But, you know, when you get to that, like it used to be there was no range finders, right?

02:05:46.000 When you started out, was there any range finders at all?

02:05:48.000 Nothing.

02:05:49.000 There was no thoughts when I started out.

02:05:51.000 No pape saw it, no fixed crazy.

02:05:54.000 We shot fingers with compound.

02:05:56.000 That's crazy.

02:05:57.000 So I'd have a little glove, three-tab glove thing, and you shoot that.

02:06:03.000 What year did they invent the archery release?

02:06:06.000 Well, I got one in 89, finally.

02:06:09.000 When did they first come out?

02:06:11.000 Like, who was the first guy that invented?

02:06:13.000 Who's the first guy that goes, you know what?

02:06:15.000 This is bullshit.

02:06:16.000 I need a thing that I can.

02:06:18.000 I like how Cam's log.

02:06:19.000 I got one in 89.

02:06:20.000 I was nine years old.

02:06:22.000 Well, at least you were born.

02:06:23.000 I didn't know the word elk.

02:06:27.000 But you knew the word cunt because they say it all the time down there.

02:06:32.000 What a cute little cunt.

02:06:36.000 Like, who was the guy that figured out the archery release?

02:06:38.000 That guy was a wizard.

02:06:39.000 Jim Fletcher was the Fletcher release, it was the first one I had, and it had a little rope in it.

02:06:45.000 I remember you'd have to put the rope around and it'd hook on the trigger on the clasp, and then you'd hit the trigger and release it.

02:06:52.000 And I didn't get, I had to replace that rope because it'd start to wear off.

02:06:56.000 So you'd have to have the right knot, and then you kind of burn it to get it to hold in there.

02:07:00.000 I didn't have it good enough, so I didn't do that knot right.

02:07:03.000 I go to pull the bow back, the release comes off, hit myself in the face.

02:07:08.000 When I first started buying releases, they would come with a little string.

02:07:12.000 Did they?

02:07:13.000 Yeah.

02:07:14.000 Some releases would come with a little rope.

02:07:16.000 And I was like, what the fuck is this for?

02:07:18.000 And it must be for guys who had kind of always done it that way and didn't want to not do it that way anymore because that was like a part of their thing.

02:07:25.000 Maybe.

02:07:26.000 Did you find a Fletcher release?

02:07:29.000 1971.

02:07:30.000 Wow.

02:07:30.000 71.

02:07:31.000 Oh, yeah.

02:07:32.000 71.

02:07:33.000 Look at that.

02:07:34.000 Stanislavski.

02:07:35.000 Yeah.

02:07:36.000 Still, they make awesome releases today.

02:07:38.000 Look at that.

02:07:39.000 That is awesome.

02:07:41.000 That's crazy.

02:07:42.000 Yeah.

02:07:43.000 Oh, so that was just like a thing that went around your finger.

02:07:46.000 Yeah, and it just turns to let it go.

02:07:48.000 Like a hinge.

02:07:49.000 Yeah.

02:07:50.000 Wow.

02:07:51.000 May revolutionize.

02:07:52.000 May revolutionize archery.

02:07:52.000 Look at that image.

02:07:54.000 Go back to that.

02:07:54.000 Look at that.

02:07:55.000 Look at that.

02:07:56.000 May revolutionize archie by contributing to unprecedented accuracy.

02:08:01.000 I mean, that's essentially like a hinge.

02:08:03.000 Yeah, it is.

02:08:04.000 Was there a fight back on that at the time?

02:08:06.000 66.

02:08:08.000 66.

02:08:08.000 Wow.

02:08:09.000 Wow.

02:08:10.000 I touched the boba for 64.

02:08:12.000 It was like I got some.

02:08:14.000 I got an idea for you guys.

02:08:16.000 Wow.

02:08:16.000 Using the six-gold bowstring release to improve their speed and accuracy.

02:08:22.000 Wow.

02:08:22.000 Oh, his two sons, Glenn and his two sons use this release.

02:08:26.000 I never even heard of this guy's name, Clarence.

02:08:29.000 Look how it works, too.

02:08:29.000 Like you hook it with your index finger, and then you pull your index finger through and it pops off.

02:08:36.000 That's crazy.

02:08:37.000 So when you draw it, you have it like that, and then you release it, you let it go.

02:08:40.000 Yeah, you let up on your with your index finger.

02:08:40.000 You just let it go.

02:08:42.000 Yeah, like a hinge.

02:08:43.000 And it turns.

02:08:44.000 A lot of guys shoot a hinge that way.

02:08:46.000 You know, some guys shoot a hinge by pulling down with their pinky finger.

02:08:49.000 See that piece of rope?

02:08:50.000 Yeah.

02:08:51.000 Hand release from 1950.

02:08:53.000 Whoa.

02:08:55.000 So there's certain releases.

02:08:56.000 That looks like hell.

02:08:57.000 That's crazy.

02:08:58.000 Look at that thing.

02:09:00.000 Wow.

02:09:00.000 Look at that thing.

02:09:01.000 It looks like a gun handle.

02:09:03.000 That's so weird.

02:09:04.000 Yeah.

02:09:05.000 Huh.

02:09:06.000 $5.95.

02:09:07.000 $5 a nice cat.

02:09:09.000 Some things have changed.

02:09:10.000 They pay for post-like that's shipping right now.

02:09:12.000 I mean, you can't even ship for that.

02:09:15.000 What a cool-looking release.

02:09:17.000 Imagine what a gangster you'd have to be to use that today.

02:09:19.000 Yeah.

02:09:20.000 I wonder if they get that.

02:09:21.000 I love all this stuff, though.

02:09:22.000 Look at that one up there in 1977, a sear-type release.

02:09:25.000 Go up.

02:09:25.000 Oh, it's like the guy with all the girls.

02:09:27.000 Yeah, that's what you get.

02:09:29.000 Oh, see, that's bow honey.

02:09:29.000 Get all the user release.

02:09:31.000 This is the first hinge-style release.

02:09:31.000 Look at this.

02:09:33.000 Yeah.

02:09:34.000 So this is in the 70s.

02:09:35.000 Huh.

02:09:36.000 Look how weird that thing looks.

02:09:38.000 Yeah.

02:09:39.000 Wonderful.

02:09:40.000 It was always hard to get a consistent release with fingers, right?

02:09:43.000 Three or four.

02:09:43.000 Of course.

02:09:45.000 No, your fingers get cold and shit's wet.

02:09:48.000 Totally makes sense.

02:09:49.000 Yeah.

02:09:50.000 Let's look at the other ones real quick.

02:09:53.000 There was always a big fight in Australia whenever something new come in, like sights on a bow.

02:09:57.000 Go to that image of that guy.

02:09:57.000 Oh, it goes.

02:09:59.000 Terry Ragsdale.

02:10:00.000 Yeah, he shot PSE.

02:10:03.000 Yeah, he's a legend.

02:10:04.000 PSE, baby.

02:10:05.000 Look at the girls are on their knees.

02:10:07.000 Oh, my God.

02:10:07.000 You shoot that stick so good.

02:10:11.000 See, and that's still how it is, pretty much.

02:10:13.000 That happens all the time.

02:10:14.000 That's how a release I guess.

02:10:16.000 I can't wait.

02:10:17.000 They hop out of the trees.

02:10:21.000 He was a stud.

02:10:22.000 Terry and Michelle Ragsdale.

02:10:24.000 Look at that.

02:10:25.000 D. Wild, yeah.

02:10:26.000 He was the wild one.

02:10:28.000 When I first started, he was the man.

02:10:29.000 Oh, that one has a trigger.

02:10:31.000 That might be one of the first ones with a trigger.

02:10:33.000 Wow.

02:10:34.000 See, that one's with a string?

02:10:35.000 Like, if you would buy old Carter releases, they would come.

02:10:39.000 Some of the releases would come with like a little string.

02:10:42.000 Yeah.

02:10:42.000 It was weird.

02:10:43.000 I was like, what is this fucking stupid string for?

02:10:45.000 I never get it.

02:10:45.000 I never even asked anybody.

02:10:47.000 Oh, really?

02:10:47.000 No, it just didn't make sense.

02:10:49.000 See, that I remember that.

02:10:50.000 That was 2000.

02:10:51.000 So that's getting newer.

02:10:52.000 Look at the wind release.

02:10:53.000 That's nuts.

02:10:54.000 There's an overdraw up there.

02:10:54.000 Yeah.

02:10:56.000 Yeah.

02:10:56.000 That's cool.

02:10:57.000 Overdraw, right?

02:10:58.000 Wow.

02:10:59.000 Yeah.

02:10:59.000 So that's.

02:11:01.000 1990.

02:11:01.000 Look at that funky looking one with wood.

02:11:03.000 That's kind of cool looking.

02:11:05.000 So it gets us a thumb button?

02:11:07.000 It must be.

02:11:08.000 Yeah.

02:11:08.000 Right?

02:11:09.000 Yeah.

02:11:10.000 Wow.

02:11:12.000 Wow.

02:11:13.000 And see, some of them have strings.

02:11:15.000 So in case people were like old school.

02:11:15.000 Yep.

02:11:18.000 Yeah, pretty cool.

02:11:19.000 Archery can.

02:11:19.000 Wow.

02:11:21.000 So how would you, when you first started, how would you measure distance?

02:11:25.000 Was it all just in your mind?

02:11:27.000 Instinct.

02:11:28.000 It's just like throwing a ball.

02:11:29.000 Yeah.

02:11:30.000 So you just have to, you know, it's just like now they have unmarked 3D tournaments where they don't have it.

02:11:36.000 You just have to get out there and kind of judge.

02:11:39.000 It was definitely harder back then because the bows weren't as fast.

02:11:42.000 So you could only be off by like a yard or two or you'd miss.

02:11:47.000 Now with a faster, flatter shooting bow, you can be off.

02:11:50.000 You can't be off by five yards.

02:11:52.000 Right, for people who don't know what we're talking about, the slower the bow is, the more it's going to drop by the time it gets to the target.

02:11:57.000 The faster the bow is, the flatter it's going to shoot.

02:11:59.000 You've learned your cast on the bow too.

02:12:01.000 So you never wanted to get rid of that bow.

02:12:03.000 Because you would literally learn the cast of an arrow.

02:12:07.000 That's what Adam's talking about is the trajectory.

02:12:11.000 So we used to practice this all the time.

02:12:13.000 Like you'd have a target out there at 60 yards, but halfway in between you and the target, you couldn't even see the target.

02:12:19.000 So you'd put like, you could put a car.

02:12:22.000 And so you're looking through the car window because you can see through the glass.

02:12:26.000 And line of sight, you're going to go right through, break the windows and everything else.

02:12:30.000 But you just know that at 60 yards, that arrow is going to be 10 yards above that car halfway there.

02:12:35.000 So at 30 yards, the arrow has to go up to come down at 60.

02:12:39.000 So you could just aim right at a car, arrow's going right over it.

02:12:43.000 So we do stuff like that just for fun.

02:12:45.000 To figure out the arc of the arrow.

02:12:46.000 Right.

02:12:47.000 But not even, that was like just an elementary example, just so people could get what I'm saying.

02:12:53.000 But when we'd get in the woods, then there'd be a branch.

02:12:56.000 Like I said, I shot with Levi Morgan.

02:12:59.000 He came out and did lift, run, shoot.

02:13:00.000 I'm like, okay, I'm going to beat this fucker.

02:13:03.000 He's 16, 17 time world champion.

02:13:06.000 So I had all these shots where it's like, okay, this branch, is he going to know this one shot was like, I think it was 90-some yards at a deer up on the hill, but there's this big branch halfway in between it.

02:13:19.000 And I knew it was kind of hard to tell, is your arrow going to go over it or under it, right?

02:13:25.000 It was because you didn't know that, I think it was about 25 yards away.

02:13:30.000 I knew what my arrow was going to do because I practiced over and over and over.

02:13:34.000 And I'm going to be like, oh, Levi's going to fuck this one up for sure.

02:13:38.000 I'll beat him on this target.

02:13:39.000 Sure as shit.

02:13:40.000 He knew exactly what his arrow was going to do.

02:13:42.000 But that's, he practices that all the time and done it his whole life and this and that.

02:13:47.000 But just fun games like that.

02:13:51.000 And it was only just to make us, because when you're hunting, that shit happens all the time.

02:13:55.000 But where I would kind of screw myself up is I loved the challenge of shots so much.

02:14:02.000 Like, and I shot between trees so often because that was like my thing.

02:14:06.000 I could just like, even if it was just like four inches, I'd be like, oh, I can't do that.

02:14:11.000 So when I was hunting, if I'd see a challenging shot on an animal, I'd be like, where I could have maybe taken a step to the right and got wide open, I'd be like, I can make this shot.

02:14:22.000 And like, fucking like making my hunting shot more challenging because I was just young and an idiot.

02:14:28.000 Now I'd be like, be stupid.

02:14:30.000 I can just go right here and shoot.

02:14:31.000 But I would do that, but we'd practice that all the time because it was fun.

02:14:36.000 And then you'd like have, you'd want your, I mean, I had so much confidence in shooting.

02:14:40.000 I would shoot hours and hours and hours every day.

02:14:43.000 I remember one time we were at this Henson's, these guys who used to bow hunt with us, me and Roy were there.

02:14:50.000 And there's a bale out there at 70-some yards, and then a piece of foam that was like a broadhead target used to be just a square piece of foam, like two inches, maybe, maybe three inches wide, but like by two foot by two foot.

02:15:05.000 And that was your broadhead target.

02:15:07.000 And that would stop an arrow with a broadhead on it, just that two or three inches of foam.

02:15:11.000 Well, the foam target, the broadhead target, was laying flat on the bale at 70 yards.

02:15:16.000 So it was only like two inches.

02:15:18.000 And we would like have these competitions all the time.

02:15:20.000 I'm like, I said, see that broadhead target on the cedar bale?

02:15:23.000 Yeah.

02:15:24.000 I'm going to hit that broadhead target.

02:15:26.000 And I would hit it.

02:15:28.000 So we were the best shots ever with no range finders.

02:15:32.000 So then Bushnell finally came up with a range finder and it was like a kind of like a cassette.

02:15:38.000 Like a kind of longer, like an eight-track tape almost, like sort of size.

02:15:44.000 And then it had a dial on it and the images it'd be off.

02:15:47.000 And then if you lined up the image like this, that would be you'd look at the, then you'd look at it wherever that image lined up, that'd be the yardage.

02:15:57.000 So then you'd be like, okay, that's close to 50 yards.

02:16:01.000 Then you'd know to shoot for 50.

02:16:03.000 But it wasn't very accurate.

02:16:05.000 It was close.

02:16:06.000 And did you have a sight tape?

02:16:08.000 You had pins.

02:16:09.000 You had pins.

02:16:10.000 Yeah, the sights didn't move at all.

02:16:11.000 So your pins would be set up at like 20, 30, 40, 50, something like that.

02:16:15.000 Yeah, and they just had like, we called them T-Dots.

02:16:18.000 So it was like a little plastic, sort of like fiber, but it's like red plastic that would sort of like have light on it.

02:16:27.000 Like a little, just a little light.

02:16:29.000 It was a fiber optics or anything.

02:16:31.000 No, it wasn't fiber, but it would light up a little because it was red plastic.

02:16:34.000 Yeah, I heard people talking about this the other day.

02:16:38.000 They were talking about Josh Jones and Josh and Tim's fireside chat.

02:16:43.000 Yeah.

02:16:43.000 It's a great podcast.

02:16:44.000 Yeah.

02:16:45.000 They were talking about how a site that you buy today for like 25 bucks is so superior to anything that existed in like 1990.

02:16:54.000 Yeah.

02:16:54.000 Like it still might have fiber optic.

02:16:57.000 It's enjoyable.

02:16:57.000 It still made it a lot more successful.

02:16:59.000 You know, it's like it was still a big advance at that time.

02:17:02.000 Yes.

02:17:03.000 But to think about where it is now.

02:17:05.000 Well, the garment site, like I was telling you about, that I, it had a few flaws.

02:17:10.000 One, I had one that worked perfectly, and then I had a second one.

02:17:14.000 You know, when you get one of the things that you said, when you get a new bow, you don't want to put old shit on the new shit on the bow.

02:17:18.000 I like stuff.

02:17:19.000 I did that too.

02:17:20.000 But unfortunately, my first garment site worked perfectly.

02:17:22.000 My second one didn't work so good.

02:17:24.000 Like there would be times where it worked perfectly and then times where I couldn't get a range.

02:17:29.000 I'd press it, it wouldn't go.

02:17:30.000 I'm at full draw.

02:17:31.000 Press it, won't go.

02:17:32.000 Press it, won't go.

02:17:33.000 Press it, finally.

02:17:34.000 But when it does work, you get this like a red dot.

02:17:38.000 You get a clear screen, and on that screen is a red dot.

02:17:41.000 No pins, no wires, no nothing.

02:17:44.000 And oh, I loved it.

02:17:46.000 When it worked perfect, because then, say if you hit an elk at 50 yards, and then he stands out at 80, and he's still standing broadside, you don't have to re-range.

02:17:55.000 You just press a button on your grip, and it instantly gives you a new range.

02:18:00.000 I think we talked about this before, and I think I mentioned that.

02:18:00.000 Yeah.

02:18:04.000 The goal is to try to protect the integrity of archery, like keeping it primitive.

02:18:09.000 So it's like, where's that line?

02:18:12.000 In Utah, they decided that that Garmin site was past the line of primitive.

02:18:18.000 So we want to honor archery and the history of archery.

02:18:21.000 And yes, there's been advancements, but it's a moving target on where the line is to keep it primitive.

02:18:28.000 I get it.

02:18:29.000 But if you've ever, I think it's ignorant because I think if you use one of those things, you realize all it's doing is taking a step away.

02:18:37.000 It's still the same exact thing.

02:18:39.000 You're range finding either way, and then you're dialing to 50 yards and whatever you have to do to execute the shot then.

02:18:48.000 But this way, you're a full draw, and the range finding is a part of that.

02:18:53.000 It's just smarter.

02:18:55.000 If it worked perfectly, it's smarter.

02:18:57.000 And I think they're going to get better.

02:18:58.000 And I'm sure the software is better.

02:19:00.000 I haven't used it in two years.

02:19:01.000 But when it worked, it was amazing.

02:19:04.000 It was like, this is really what you want.

02:19:06.000 What you want is to absolutely know the exact distance so you can make an ethical shot.

02:19:12.000 So if you range at 50, and then it takes a few steps, and then you're guessing because you can't re-range.

02:19:18.000 Look, we already have less than 10% success rate anyway.

02:19:22.000 It's not like everyone who gets a tag is going to get an elk.

02:19:24.000 It's a small number of people that are really successful all the time, but that would keep you from wounding.

02:19:30.000 And that should be our goal.

02:19:32.000 Always.

02:19:33.000 I don't think it's any easier.

02:19:35.000 It's just more effective.

02:19:36.000 I think there's more room for error in it, though, isn't there?

02:19:39.000 Because like my binoculars are the range finder, so I can definitely get the dot 100% on the animal.

02:19:46.000 Right.

02:19:46.000 Whereas I think with those sights, it's a little bit more difficult to definitely be ranging that animal and not a branch five yards behind it or five.

02:19:55.000 Not when you're at full draw.

02:19:56.000 No, they're really good.

02:19:58.000 So when you're at full draw, when it worked at full draw, you're steady like your pin, right?

02:20:03.000 So you have a target, and the target is like this little red thing.

02:20:07.000 And when you put it on there and then you press the button, then it gives you your pin.

02:20:11.000 Yeah, but what if you're not on it?

02:20:13.000 What if you're like, because you said it would eliminate wounding, which it would.

02:20:18.000 No, no, I didn't say to eliminate wounding.

02:20:20.000 If I did, I misspoke.

02:20:22.000 What I meant was you're going to get less of that because you're going to have more effective, exact ranges.

02:20:27.000 But you said like if you needed a follow-up shot, that's where people, we know adrenaline goes crazy is for sure after the first shot.

02:20:27.000 Right.

02:20:35.000 So if they're wound up and they're shooting too quickly because that site allows it, could that be a negative?

02:20:43.000 But it's a follow-up shot.

02:20:44.000 But why are you shooting too quickly?

02:20:46.000 That's a mind management thing.

02:20:47.000 You know, you should figure out how to manage your mind and calm yourself down and make that shot.

02:20:52.000 You wouldn't freak out on a second shot if you had that.

02:20:54.000 That's what I'm saying.

02:20:54.000 Right.

02:20:55.000 And if you had that and you 100% could count on it the same way you count on your range finder, that would be the best thing for everybody.

02:21:02.000 Best thing for the animal, best thing for you, best thing for everybody.

02:21:06.000 And it's a way better sight picture.

02:21:08.000 The sight picture is amazing.

02:21:09.000 It's a red dot.

02:21:10.000 It's just like a red dot on a pistol.

02:21:12.000 You know, like a red dot on a pistol?

02:21:14.000 That dot is just sitting there and you're not, you just can put it right on the vitals.

02:21:14.000 It's what it looks like.

02:21:19.000 It's a beautiful feeling when you watch through that range, through that range finding site and you put that pin on and then the arrow releases and then you watch that arrow soar and boink right in there.

02:21:31.000 Ooh.

02:21:31.000 Yeah, it's good hunting.

02:21:33.000 Ooh, it's nice.

02:21:34.000 I don't doubt that.

02:21:36.000 I'm just devil's advocate, but I get it.

02:21:38.000 Look, I'm a fan of a company that does something like that.

02:21:41.000 I'm a fan of Garmin.

02:21:41.000 I mean, I've got a Garmin watch on right now.

02:21:43.000 I'm a fan of Garmin, period.

02:21:44.000 They make awesome shit.

02:21:45.000 They make awesome range finding.

02:21:47.000 I mean, awesome GPS equipment.

02:21:49.000 They make awesome watches.

02:21:51.000 They make great shit.

02:21:52.000 They make great chest straps, the workout things.

02:21:56.000 They make awesome stuff.

02:21:57.000 So I'm just happy that someone put the research and development and the money that must have taken to put together a fucking range finding binocular or range finding site rather that actually works.

02:22:09.000 Yeah.

02:22:10.000 I agree.

02:22:11.000 I mean, I just want a better one.

02:22:13.000 I want it perfect.

02:22:14.000 I'll get there.

02:22:15.000 I want it like my.

02:22:16.000 I have one of the things that I fucking love.

02:22:18.000 I have a loophole, full draw five.

02:22:20.000 That's my favorite range finder of all time because it gives you the arc of the arrow at its peak.

02:22:25.000 That is so huge.

02:22:26.000 That's cool.

02:22:26.000 And I used it to kill a bull once because, and when I had that Garmin site, in fact, because I had the Garmin site and I ranged this elk and it was at 50 yards, but there was a hole only like this where I could shoot through.

02:22:39.000 And I was like, oh, I don't know.

02:22:41.000 So then I pull out the loophole and I hit the button and I see the exact arc of the arrow where it's going to be at its height.

02:22:50.000 And its height was six inches below those branches.

02:22:52.000 I'm like, we're good.

02:22:53.000 Yeah, we're good.

02:22:54.000 So just keep the pin on them and it was perfect See that thing?

02:22:58.000 I fucking love that thing.

02:23:00.000 That thing's so huge.

02:23:01.000 So you know exactly what right there is a little sketch, right?

02:23:04.000 Because that could hit it on the way in.

02:23:06.000 So that's the height of your arrow, but that doesn't mean where's that tree?

02:23:06.000 Right.

02:23:09.000 Yeah.

02:23:10.000 Like that tree might be 20 yards ahead of you.

02:23:11.000 You might smack right into that fucking thing.

02:23:13.000 So you have to take that into consideration.

02:23:15.000 But having that extra indication of the height, the high point of the arrow.

02:23:20.000 On this.

02:23:20.000 Huge.

02:23:21.000 You just take a step to the left.

02:23:23.000 Exactly.

02:23:25.000 Or if you were me when I was younger, you'd just shoot right here.

02:23:28.000 Shoot straight forward.

02:23:29.000 Or would you get on your knees?

02:23:30.000 Yeah, get on your knees.

02:23:31.000 Get on your knees and execute the shot.

02:23:33.000 But it's like having that knowledge.

02:23:34.000 What it's going to keep is that arrow whacking that branch and then sticking in his ass and wounding him.

02:23:39.000 You know, whereas you might have made a perfect release, but because of that high point of the arrow indication, now you know and you can make a more educated decision.

02:23:49.000 It's all about making the ethical shot.

02:23:51.000 And so for me, anything that allows you, it's still going to be really fucking hard to do.

02:23:57.000 It's always hard.

02:23:58.000 Here's okay.

02:24:00.000 So I'll just do a list real quick.

02:24:02.000 The biggest help in bow hunting has been the laser rangefinder.

02:24:08.000 That changed the game, definitely.

02:24:11.000 Now, that was back in the day.

02:24:13.000 Sight tapes.

02:24:14.000 Now, well, some people, yeah, some people don't do well with sight tapes in the heat of the moment as far as dialing the sight.

02:24:22.000 But it can make it's made me more accurate at longer range for sure to be able to dial the sight and hold right on.

02:24:27.000 Right now, so that a positive has been Onyx or the mapping system as far as for hunting the mountains.

02:24:34.000 That has helped so many people and so much confidence.

02:24:37.000 Huge.

02:24:38.000 That's a giant one.

02:24:39.000 It's like that's one reason why the backcountry definitely has more people in it because more people are confident.

02:24:45.000 It used to be like you have to read a 7.5 minute per angle topo map.

02:24:50.000 You don't have to do that shit anymore.

02:24:52.000 So now you don't have to figure out where your car is anymore.

02:24:55.000 You mark your car, you're good to go.

02:24:57.000 That's been huge.

02:24:58.000 There's a huge negative, not too many people are talking about.

02:25:03.000 And it's using optics with they pick up heat signature.

02:25:10.000 What are those called?

02:25:11.000 Thermals.

02:25:12.000 Thermals.

02:25:13.000 Yeah, those, dude, it's not good for hunting.

02:25:16.000 You don't.

02:25:17.000 So glassing is an art.

02:25:19.000 We've talked about glass and having good glass and movement.

02:25:22.000 Glassing is an art.

02:25:23.000 These thermal optics, you don't have to be good at anything.

02:25:27.000 You're like a predator.

02:25:28.000 You put them up and it tells you where the animal is.

02:25:31.000 I've never even used one, but I've talked to guys who have used them, and I know that it's not great because what would take hours to glass, and you probably would miss a bedded mule deer buck, five minutes.

02:25:44.000 You know where every animal is on that hill.

02:25:46.000 There's a good argument that that's too far.

02:25:46.000 That's a good argument.

02:25:49.000 That is way too far.

02:25:50.000 And is that legal in most states?

02:25:53.000 It hasn't even hardly been covered.

02:25:55.000 It's kind of a new technology that they don't even address, really.

02:25:58.000 But I'm saying it is.

02:25:59.000 California's outlawed it.

02:26:00.000 I hope so because it needs to be outlawed everywhere.

02:26:03.000 That's a good point.

02:26:04.000 So many big animals are getting killed that shouldn't be getting killed right now by guys using thermals.

02:26:09.000 And is it a loophole?

02:26:12.000 Are they doing it when they shouldn't be doing it in some states?

02:26:15.000 Or is it because to catch people is tough.

02:26:17.000 You know, hunting is about honor, honor and respect.

02:26:20.000 It's what we talk about.

02:26:21.000 We police ourselves.

02:26:23.000 We do it right.

02:26:23.000 You know, I mean, yeah, there's people who get busted for doing shit, but most people are just out there policing ourselves.

02:26:29.000 Well, it's because they want that same respect that you talked about.

02:26:33.000 What's Halliday's first name again?

02:26:35.000 Cal Halliday.

02:26:36.000 Cal Halliday?

02:26:37.000 Yeah.

02:26:38.000 When you talk about that guy, they want you to talk about, every man wants you to talk about him when he's not around like that.

02:26:45.000 And they're not going to if you're cutting corners and you're using some shit you're not supposed to.

02:26:50.000 What is the law on that, though?

02:26:51.000 Because every state has different laws, right?

02:26:53.000 Like Nevada, you're allowed to use walkie-talkies, or at least you used to be able to.

02:26:57.000 You can tell people, hey, he's right above you.

02:27:00.000 It's a little bit probably like the e-bike thing where it's so fresh that they haven't come up with you can or you can't right now.

02:27:06.000 It's a bicycle.

02:27:07.000 It's a motorcycle.

02:27:07.000 No, it's not.

02:27:09.000 It's optics.

02:27:10.000 No, it's not.

02:27:10.000 It's thermals.

02:27:11.000 Right.

02:27:12.000 Yeah.

02:27:13.000 Let's see what the laws are.

02:27:15.000 Put that into perplexity.

02:27:16.000 What are the laws?

02:27:17.000 What states allow thermal binoculars for hunting?

02:27:21.000 Thermal scopes are not universally allowed for hunting.

02:27:25.000 Yeah, but not thermal scopes, thermal binoculars.

02:27:28.000 Yeah.

02:27:29.000 What does it say thermal?

02:27:30.000 Is there thermal optics down below right there in Europe?

02:27:33.000 Owning thermal optics is often.

02:27:35.000 Yeah, but what about in America?

02:27:37.000 In America, what states allow thermal binoculars for hunting?

02:27:42.000 Put that in there.

02:27:43.000 Not scopes.

02:27:44.000 That's the problem.

02:27:45.000 It's the word scope is for a rifle scope.

02:27:48.000 Binoculars.

02:27:51.000 Let's see.

02:27:54.000 How crazy is this AI where it just does this and immediately gives you the answer?

02:27:59.000 Thermal imaging devices, including binoculars and monoculars, are legal to own in the United States.

02:28:04.000 And many states allow them in some hunting contexts, especially predators or nuisance species like hogs or coyotes.

02:28:11.000 However, several states either completely ban thermal for any hunting or ban profession possession, rather, use of thermal devices while taking or locating wildlife.

02:28:20.000 So examples of state rules.

02:28:22.000 Some states explicitly allow thermal optics for night hunting.

02:28:25.000 For example, Texas, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Missouri, authorize thermal devices for specific predator or invasive species hunts in their 2025 regulations.

02:28:35.000 Other states, such as Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Tennessee, prohibit thermal optics for hunting wildlife altogether or for most game species.

02:28:47.000 So a lot of states.

02:28:48.000 So it seems like a few states are on the ball with this.

02:28:50.000 Yeah.

02:28:51.000 I mean, it's a big deal because those animals, to get to trophy status for these animals, they're old.

02:28:57.000 They've survived.

02:28:58.000 They know what it takes.

02:28:59.000 They've done it.

02:29:01.000 They've outwitted hunters for years.

02:29:04.000 And now, in their best bed where a man would never be able to find them by glassing, those are the same.

02:29:15.000 It's not hunting.

02:29:16.000 It's not right.

02:29:18.000 It's not the art of glassing, which is how we've developed these skills.

02:29:22.000 It's using technology.

02:29:25.000 That makes sense.

02:29:25.000 It makes sense because it's like you're saying there is a line.

02:29:28.000 Yeah.

02:29:28.000 And you are actively campaigning for something that's going to make your job easier to go away.

02:29:35.000 Yeah, I wanted to keep the challenge there.

02:29:38.000 Well, it's also what he said when you, like you said, in the town you grew up.

02:29:41.000 If you killed a big buck, like people respected you.

02:29:44.000 Because that's really hard to do.

02:29:44.000 Why?

02:29:45.000 Yeah.

02:29:46.000 Those big old bucks are fucking smart and they are tuned in, man.

02:29:50.000 They hear branch snap and it's like, fuck this, boing.

02:29:54.000 They're that big for a reason.

02:29:55.000 They're that big for a reason.

02:29:56.000 Yeah.

02:29:57.000 It's a, and I would, I know in Utah, I was going down this creek this year, and I saw like there's some, there's some cedar trees, like a kind of a patch of them there.

02:30:08.000 But basically, there's a tunnel in there and then a deer bed.

02:30:12.000 And like you couldn't see it from anywhere.

02:30:14.000 And I was thinking, man, if a buck was bedded there, you'd have no idea.

02:30:17.000 Yeah.

02:30:17.000 Right.

02:30:18.000 And, but you would now if you had the thermal optics.

02:30:21.000 And that's like, that was a perfect example of a buck that found that bed.

02:30:25.000 That's already safe, and that's how he survived now that that taking that away.

02:30:29.000 Taking that away.

02:30:30.000 There's probably trad guys listening to this podcast on Baylor.

02:30:33.000 I know, right?

02:30:34.000 Fuck off, you do.

02:30:35.000 Trad for people that don't know what that means.

02:30:36.000 Trad guys are guys who hunt with a regular old-school bow and arrow, like a recurve bow.

02:30:43.000 That's a good challenge.

02:30:43.000 They're just guessing where that arrow is going to go.

02:30:46.000 You know?

02:30:47.000 Well, hopefully they're not.

02:30:48.000 They practice.

02:30:49.000 Oh, yeah, they practice.

02:30:50.000 But there is a lot of guessing.

02:30:52.000 You're guessing the yardage.

02:30:53.000 You're guessing where your arrow is going to hit.

02:30:55.000 I mean, some of those guys that trad bow hunt, do they use range finders?

02:31:00.000 None of them.

02:31:00.000 No.

02:31:01.000 So all of them are just guessing.

02:31:03.000 It's instinct.

02:31:04.000 I try and do a couple of tread bow hunts.

02:31:05.000 Instinct is it.

02:31:06.000 Because it's like when you throw a rock, is that guessing?

02:31:08.000 No, it's instinct.

02:31:10.000 Right.

02:31:10.000 Yeah.

02:31:11.000 It's just like to get good at pitching a baseball.

02:31:13.000 You know, I mean, it's the same.

02:31:13.000 Right.

02:31:15.000 Some people are really good.

02:31:16.000 Except the pitcher's mound and the batter's box at the same distance every time.

02:31:21.000 That's the difference.

02:31:21.000 Yeah.

02:31:21.000 Yeah, that's true.

02:31:22.000 Well, if you're disciplined, you would know that it's under 20 yards every time, and that's who you'd take.

02:31:27.000 Yeah, but there's a lot of guys that can take a poke with a recurve bow.

02:31:31.000 You know, and they're pretty accurate with it.

02:31:31.000 Yeah.

02:31:33.000 Like, they have some different ways of measuring where the tip of it is at 40 yards.

02:31:38.000 They know that that's when it's going to hit dead on.

02:31:40.000 Yeah.

02:31:41.000 They look down the arrow instead of like we do through a people.

02:31:45.000 They're looking down the shaft of the arrow.

02:31:46.000 They look all squirrely and shit like this.

02:31:49.000 Some people put it on their eye or they put it here and they use the point of the arrow, as you said.

02:31:55.000 But yeah, it's like most people, though, like you talk about discipline, like I'm going to shoot if it's 20 yards or less.

02:32:01.000 That's the only time I'm going to shoot.

02:32:03.000 Unless it's huge.

02:32:05.000 Oh, gosh, that window.

02:32:07.000 It's 70.

02:32:08.000 I had it once in a lifetime.

02:32:09.000 It was the biggest thing I've ever seen.

02:32:11.000 I had to shoot.

02:32:12.000 Sometimes you think you see things and you're like, how do I get to that?

02:32:16.000 How do I find him?

02:32:17.000 Even if it's far away.

02:32:19.000 Yeah.

02:32:20.000 Normally, like you see stuff, here's what be the technology that would really hurt because you see something a mile away and you know that animal's there.

02:32:29.000 If I could just get to that tree line, if you could just be there.

02:32:33.000 Well, that's where those long-range rifle guys, that's a whole different argument, right?

02:32:33.000 Yeah.

02:32:39.000 Some of those guys, they'll take a poke seven, 900 yards.

02:32:43.000 You know, and they're real accurate with it.

02:32:44.000 These guys are so good.

02:32:46.000 Like, they're shooting.

02:32:48.000 Yeah, and that's a whole nother thing.

02:32:49.000 They're taking into account the wind across the canyon.

02:32:53.000 I saw this guy.

02:32:54.000 I'm pretty sure the other Tanner was showing me this because, you know, so much waste of time shit on Instagram.

02:33:01.000 But this was kind of cool.

02:33:02.000 He was shooting so far and he's so good.

02:33:05.000 So he's prone down, has long range, all his shit, all everything they do.

02:33:09.000 That's a whole art.

02:33:11.000 But anyway, he shot, and I think he was, if I remember right, he shot and it was so far.

02:33:17.000 He put another shell in, got another bullet on the way.

02:33:20.000 They both hit steel.

02:33:22.000 That's crazy.

02:33:23.000 They both hit steel.

02:33:25.000 At least it was crazy.

02:33:27.000 He racked another round in in the time it took for the bullet to get there.

02:33:31.000 Yes, and that's and sent the other one on the way, and so it was like a dong-dong.

02:33:36.000 That's crazy.

02:33:37.000 Yeah, that's that guy.

02:33:39.000 This guy's a machine, though.

02:33:40.000 I wish I could remember the fucking page, but guy's a machine because you can see he's down in his gun, just like fucking in and still on that scope.

02:33:49.000 Didn't even move.

02:33:49.000 Boom.

02:33:51.000 That's a whole nother art form.

02:33:53.000 You know, that's a whole nother keeping your shit together, crazy long-range shooting.

02:33:57.000 I know a lot of guys that get into it, my friend Justin got really into that.

02:34:00.000 Once you get into long-range shooting, you start just fucking craving it.

02:34:04.000 They just want to hit that steel at 1,500 yards.

02:34:07.000 It's nuts.

02:34:08.000 Some of these guys, they shoot insane.

02:34:11.000 What is the record for the longest shot ever taken in a competition?

02:34:17.000 Like those long-range competitions.

02:34:19.000 What do you think it is?

02:34:22.000 I mean, it's 2,000 yards for sure.

02:34:25.000 Yeah.

02:34:25.000 Really?

02:34:26.000 That's so crazy.

02:34:28.000 I would think people are shooting at 2,000.

02:34:29.000 Oh, yeah.

02:34:31.000 2.4 miles.

02:34:34.000 Wow.

02:34:35.000 Did I say yard?

02:34:35.000 Wait, really?

02:34:36.000 What did I mean?

02:34:37.000 Did I mean yards?

02:34:38.000 Yeah, I meant yards.

02:34:39.000 He almost nailed it.

02:34:40.000 What is it?

02:34:42.000 Actually, yeah.

02:34:43.000 2.4 miles.

02:34:44.000 Yeah, but wow.

02:34:45.000 How'd you guys?

02:34:46.000 He motherfucker.

02:34:47.000 You looked that up, Sonny.

02:34:48.000 How could he?

02:34:49.000 He lives in Australia.

02:34:50.000 They're not allowed to know this information.

02:34:51.000 I don't know.

02:34:53.000 If you even search this online, the police show up at your door.

02:34:57.000 Holy smile.

02:34:58.000 4,224-yard shot at the Clark.

02:35:02.000 This guy was Robert Brantley at the Clark's Knob ELR match in Kansas described as a new world record in long-range shooting achieved under match conditions.

02:35:14.000 That's credible.

02:35:15.000 That is so crazy.

02:35:17.000 Non-competition almost double.

02:35:18.000 Look at that.

02:35:19.000 Oh, my God.

02:35:20.000 In 2022 in Wyoming, a team recorded a 4.4-mile, 7,744-yard hit on steel after dozens of tries.

02:35:31.000 Whoa.

02:35:32.000 Wow.

02:35:33.000 But not a standard scored competition stage.

02:35:36.000 Wow.

02:35:36.000 The problem is, guys, see that?

02:35:38.000 Like, 4.4 miles, they're like, oh, I could shoot at 1,000 yards then.

02:35:43.000 Right.

02:35:43.000 Look at that thing.

02:35:44.000 They never fucking practice.

02:35:46.000 Good lord.

02:35:47.000 Yeah, these guys.

02:35:48.000 I mean, the amount of no moving you have to have.

02:35:51.000 Oh, my God, dude.

02:35:52.000 It's crazy.

02:35:53.000 But yeah, the guy out there with their Buy Mart 3006.

02:35:57.000 You guys have Buy Marts here?

02:35:59.000 Ever heard of Buy Mart?

02:35:59.000 What's a Buy Mart?

02:36:01.000 It's a store.

02:36:02.000 Oh, no.

02:36:02.000 Like a sporting good store, or it's not a Sporting Goods, but anyway, like they got their $250 rifle from Buy Mart, 3006, and they're like, they see that and they're like, oh, shit, then I could shoot at 600 yards.

02:36:15.000 They shoot at 4.4 miles.

02:36:17.000 That's the problem.

02:36:18.000 That is part of the problem.

02:36:20.000 But people say that about me, too.

02:36:21.000 It's like, oh, people will say I always talk about shooting animals at 100 yards, which I have never one time.

02:36:28.000 But yeah, I practice at long range, but they try to lump me in like I'm ruining and promoting long-range shooting.

02:36:35.000 No, you're just amplifying if you're off at all.

02:36:38.000 Or it's good practice.

02:36:39.000 Yeah, no, what I always said is.

02:36:41.000 Her rifle for the 4.4 miles.

02:36:43.000 Whoa, look at that.

02:36:44.000 These fuckers are heavy, too.

02:36:46.000 Look at it.

02:36:46.000 Oh, yeah.

02:36:47.000 I mean, it looks like a longbow.

02:36:49.000 It just needs a string on it.

02:36:50.000 It looks like a barbell.

02:36:51.000 It's probably, I mean, I bet it's 30, 40 pounds.

02:36:55.000 Does it say the weight on those things?

02:36:55.000 I don't know.

02:36:58.000 Look at the size of that gun.

02:36:59.000 Look at the barrel on that thing.

02:37:00.000 That's nuts.

02:37:02.000 Yeah.

02:37:03.000 First confirmed and verified world record.

02:37:07.000 This isn't the actual one.

02:37:07.000 Yeah, wow.

02:37:08.000 This is 2018.

02:37:09.000 That shot was taken in 2022.

02:37:10.000 Oh, so this is a world record before the world record.

02:37:14.000 Wow.

02:37:15.000 Yeah, I think I'd get AIDS if I touched a gun.

02:37:17.000 I know those guns are heavy.

02:37:19.000 That's what the government tells you?

02:37:20.000 Your AIDS?

02:37:23.000 You don't want to touch a gun.

02:37:24.000 You might get AIDS.

02:37:26.000 That's exactly what we said.

02:37:27.000 It's only if you stick it up your ass, I guess.

02:37:29.000 No, you got to stick it up your ass after somebody's stuck it up their ass.

02:37:32.000 All right.

02:37:33.000 Yeah.

02:37:33.000 You got to get a second.

02:37:34.000 It's like dirty needles.

02:37:35.000 I hate when that happens.

02:37:39.000 Yeah.

02:37:41.000 It's like, you know, like bow hunters look at rifle hunters like, oh, that's kind of easy.

02:37:41.000 That's another thing.

02:37:46.000 Traditional hunters look at compound hunters like, oh, that's easy.

02:37:49.000 And then there's guys out there, I use a fucking spear.

02:37:52.000 You know, eight to their own, too.

02:37:54.000 Yeah.

02:37:55.000 For sure.

02:37:56.000 As long as you're ethical, as long as you could do it.

02:37:58.000 I mean, I'm sure there's probably some guy out there that knows how to hit a target with an Adelatl.

02:38:03.000 Probably.

02:38:03.000 I mean, if I'm using a spear, I don't do anything past three yards.

02:38:09.000 It's like, I'm just dirty.

02:38:12.000 I speed speed a buffalo.

02:38:14.000 We tried to figure out who's pretty cool.

02:38:17.000 Did you really?

02:38:18.000 Oh, God.

02:38:19.000 Probably edit that out.

02:38:21.000 We were trying to figure out.

02:38:23.000 I'm just kidding.

02:38:24.000 We were trying to figure out the other day when the actual bow and arrow was invented.

02:38:30.000 And it's kind of difficult to track down.

02:38:32.000 But the weird thing is, it seems to have been invented, or at least seems to exist simultaneously at many spots all over the world at the same time, which is really interesting.

02:38:44.000 It makes you think, I wonder, we really don't know how much people were traveling back then.

02:38:44.000 Yeah.

02:38:51.000 We really don't.

02:38:52.000 There's a lot of guessing.

02:38:53.000 And they keep pushing back maritime travel.

02:38:56.000 They keep pushing back like the age of when the first maybe even primitive humans were using some sort of a raft to get across lakes and rivers and maybe even oceans.

02:39:07.000 But you know, sharing that information, like, who is the wizard that looked at a stick and goes, if I could just put one of these fucking things on the end of that stick and pull it.

02:39:18.000 That's a real one.

02:39:19.000 Why do you have that?

02:39:20.000 I always have that.

02:39:20.000 It's always sitting right here.

02:39:22.000 Oh, I thought you had it in your pocket.

02:39:23.000 I did.

02:39:24.000 Because I put it in my pocket sometimes.

02:39:26.000 When I'm fiddling with it.

02:39:27.000 Yeah, I play with that thing.

02:39:28.000 That's a real one.

02:39:29.000 That's from here.

02:39:30.000 Whoa, that's a fucking good one.

02:39:32.000 Yeah, I found one in New Mexico.

02:39:34.000 Yeah, that's a good one, right?

02:39:35.000 Remy said that one was probably used for fish.

02:39:37.000 He said because it's so big.

02:39:39.000 That was his guess.

02:39:41.000 But maybe.

02:39:41.000 It might have been used for bison.

02:39:43.000 Sort of.

02:39:44.000 I mean, it's not.

02:39:46.000 I mean, it would cut.

02:39:47.000 I mean, it's sort of sharp.

02:39:49.000 Yeah.

02:39:49.000 I mean, as sharp as you can get it.

02:39:52.000 That's cool, though.

02:39:53.000 It's not like modern broadheads.

02:39:54.000 Modern broadheads that you could shave your arm with, you know?

02:39:57.000 They cut your eyes when you look at them too odd.

02:39:59.000 Bro.

02:39:59.000 Yeah.

02:40:00.000 But that's what you want.

02:40:01.000 You know, that's the other thing.

02:40:03.000 Like, is that too?

02:40:03.000 Is that too good?

02:40:05.000 Is that too easy?

02:40:05.000 It's too easy.

02:40:06.000 Maybe you should go back to Flint.

02:40:08.000 Go back.

02:40:08.000 Maybe you should make your own arrowheads, pussy.

02:40:10.000 No, it was like eating.

02:40:14.000 There's a guy that I, oh, he went to high school with, but he would say his dad would shoot his arrows down the road to make him.

02:40:25.000 He would want to make the broadhead dollar so it would go in and rip a bigger hole.

02:40:32.000 What?

02:40:33.000 That's how he thought?

02:40:34.000 Yeah.

02:40:35.000 Anyway, people come up with some crazy shit.

02:40:38.000 Well, if they don't know, that's one of the things that's cool about when I got into bow hunting and especially learning it from you.

02:40:44.000 I already knew so much just from talking to you.

02:40:47.000 You had so much information.

02:40:48.000 I didn't have to figure it out nearly as much.

02:40:52.000 I just had to listen.

02:40:53.000 So many people have already figured out metal broadheads.

02:40:56.000 We were having a conversation about lighted knocks this weekend.

02:40:59.000 And I'm like, damn it, I think I'm going to stop using lighted knocks.

02:41:02.000 Yeah.

02:41:03.000 Sorry.

02:41:03.000 The weight on the.

02:41:04.000 No, I think you got a really good point.

02:41:05.000 Like that additional 10 grains at the end can't be good for accuracy.

02:41:10.000 It just can't be.

02:41:11.000 I think you've got to pick the situation, though.

02:41:12.000 And it's a little bit, you know, like if I'm going to the Arctic and there's no sunlight and I want to see where the arrow hits, okay, a lighted knock's going to override the little bit of inconsistency.

02:41:24.000 Because it's a dull environment.

02:41:25.000 It's hard to see.

02:41:26.000 It's almost like you're dusk all day long.

02:41:28.000 Yeah, right.

02:41:29.000 And I think like hunting pigs in their beds, you know, you're under the trees.

02:41:32.000 It's dark.

02:41:33.000 It might come into play a little bit more there.

02:41:35.000 But if it's not required, then, yeah, why interrupt even a little bit of accuracy?

02:41:42.000 Because you get to a certain point in bow hunting where we're talking about the arrow shafts.

02:41:46.000 The better the match grade of arrow shafts you can use.

02:41:49.000 You don't notice that to start with because you're just shooting, you know, and you're not super consistent.

02:41:53.000 You're not super accurate.

02:41:55.000 And then all those little things end up bringing a group from that to that.

02:42:00.000 And there's the difference.

02:42:01.000 And you'll notice that at this point in your archery.

02:42:05.000 Yeah, it makes sense.

02:42:06.000 It totally makes sense.

02:42:07.000 But it's just, again, thank God somebody figured all this stuff out.

02:42:12.000 If you had to come along and do it all by yourself, like, oh.

02:42:15.000 It was a hard learning curve.

02:42:16.000 Like in Australia, we didn't have the sort of figures and probably knowledge that you guys did because it's like it's part of your pastime, right?

02:42:26.000 I was talking to Evan about this.

02:42:28.000 It's like part of the American pastime, a bow hunter.

02:42:33.000 Whereas in Australia, it's not, you know, and it's not, there's not all the information out there.

02:42:37.000 And it seemed like Australia was probably about 10 years behind the U.S. on sites, release aids, the knowledge behind it.

02:42:46.000 And yeah, I think the fact that you guys have, like we were talking about Fred Bear, you know, like paving the way for bow hunting in America.

02:42:57.000 And, you know, Australia's had its idols as well and people that have paved the way, but a lot slower than here.

02:43:06.000 To have all the knowledge, for you to have someone like Cam is absolutely brilliant because you are.

02:43:13.000 You've probably made those mistakes yourself or learned them yourself.

02:43:16.000 And then so you go straight to Joe and be like, this is a good setup.

02:43:19.000 This works, this doesn't.

02:43:21.000 And then in Australia, the first things I was sold were target sites for bow hunting, you know, and it's just like, and we didn't know any better.

02:43:28.000 So as well as wasting time, you wasted a lot of money, you wasted a lot of effort, you wasted a lot of heartache, you know, on finding your way in bow hunting.

02:43:37.000 Yeah.

02:43:37.000 And there's still guys right now that shoot instinctual with a compound.

02:43:40.000 Yeah.

02:43:43.000 The internet has definitely helped educate people.

02:43:47.000 You know, we used to have to learn it all on our own, which is like, I think to Adam's point, where it's nice when you have a resource or a mentor.

02:43:54.000 A lot of the times we didn't have that.

02:43:55.000 We had magazines.

02:43:57.000 We didn't have internet.

02:43:58.000 So we just have to figure it out.

02:43:59.000 But when we talk about the lighted knocks specifically, you mentioned the weight.

02:44:05.000 The weight is one part, but it's also the inconsistency of having those electronics back there on the back of the arrow.

02:44:11.000 And you just can't get as good as a knock.

02:44:15.000 So that's the connection point from the arrow to the string.

02:44:18.000 It's just not going to be as good with electronics in there.

02:44:21.000 It's trying to serve a different purpose of lighting up that knock, where in my opinion, that's going to help me maybe decide on when to go after the animal, knowing where I hit it, but it's not going to make me any more lethal.

02:44:33.000 It's going to make me less lethal.

02:44:36.000 I want the most accurate arrow possible.

02:44:39.000 And where that goes, whether I see it or not, doesn't really matter.

02:44:43.000 I'm going to have to get on that blood trail and recover that animal regardless.

02:44:48.000 So just knowing where the arrow hit isn't making it any more deadly or not.

02:44:53.000 You know, it's just how that might impact how I react to that shot.

02:44:57.000 But I want the most accurate.

02:44:59.000 That's why I shoot those, you know, the X10s, $50 an arrow, because it's the straightest, most accurate arrow.

02:45:07.000 It's what they've used in the Olympics since 1996.

02:45:10.000 So you can use other arrows.

02:45:12.000 They're not as straight, not as good.

02:45:14.000 You can put lighted knocks on.

02:45:16.000 You're giving up accuracy.

02:45:17.000 You can do it if you want.

02:45:18.000 And you can say it's going to help in these other arenas.

02:45:22.000 It's not going to help with accuracy.

02:45:24.000 So all I care about is that arrow going where I want it to go.

02:45:27.000 That's how I look at things.

02:45:29.000 It's the most important.

02:45:30.000 Yeah.

02:45:31.000 It makes sense.

02:45:31.000 Yeah.

02:45:32.000 It makes sense.

02:45:33.000 And the amount of times where the lighted knock would help you is dwarfed in comparison to the amount of times where accuracy is critical.

02:45:42.000 Right.

02:45:43.000 Accuracy is always critical.

02:45:44.000 And it's only a small amount of times where that lighted knock is really going to come into play where it really helps you.

02:45:44.000 Right.

02:45:49.000 That's what I, I mean, it's cool and it's nice.

02:45:52.000 And it looks, I've never used one.

02:45:54.000 So I mean, maybe I have you.

02:45:57.000 I guess I have a few times, but I just was like, just thinking about it and like, no, it's not helping me.

02:46:05.000 I always think about it when I take the regular knocks off and put the lighted ones on.

02:46:09.000 Like the regular knocks are solid.

02:46:10.000 Yeah.

02:46:11.000 Yeah.

02:46:11.000 And the lighted ones, there's a hole in the center of it where you've got electronics and a light bulb and a battery.

02:46:17.000 Like there's a bunch of shit in there.

02:46:17.000 I know.

02:46:19.000 That has to have some sort of an effect.

02:46:19.000 Yeah.

02:46:23.000 Right.

02:46:23.000 Yeah.

02:46:24.000 Didn't Tom Miranda used to have something where he had a weight on the back of his arrow?

02:46:28.000 Didn't he have something crazy, some weird setup where he had not the breadcrumb like the tracker.

02:46:33.000 I don't remember what he had.

02:46:34.000 No, it wasn't that.

02:46:35.000 It was like a thing that he did to the back of his arrow.

02:46:38.000 I was like, that seemed counterintuitive.

02:46:39.000 Where he had additional weight on the back.

02:46:41.000 I don't know what I'm talking about.

02:46:43.000 I can't remember.

02:46:44.000 I don't know, but Tom Miranda, that's old school.

02:46:46.000 Oh, you're looking at it.

02:46:48.000 I mean, he's still out there getting it done, but that's, I mean, that's history.

02:46:51.000 Is that who we were talking about the other day?

02:46:53.000 College with Tom Miranda.

02:46:55.000 Oh, he's had those TV shows on forever.

02:46:58.000 Adventure bow hunting with Tom Miranda.

02:47:00.000 Yeah, I know.

02:47:01.000 I went all over the fucking world though.

02:47:03.000 Okay, yeah.

02:47:04.000 Getting around the world hunting.

02:47:05.000 Bro, that guy went all over the world hunting.

02:47:07.000 Yeah.

02:47:08.000 All over the world.

02:47:09.000 He was one of the first guys that ever heard about using a sauna to help his hunting.

02:47:14.000 Really?

02:47:15.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:47:15.000 He felt like, because he was living in Florida, and the guy was like, why do you want a sauna in your house here in Florida?

02:47:21.000 And he's like, because it makes you have more endurance.

02:47:23.000 Yeah, it's better for hunting.

02:47:24.000 I didn't know.

02:47:25.000 That's good.

02:47:25.000 Yeah.

02:47:26.000 Pretty cool.

02:47:27.000 Tom Miranda.

02:47:28.000 Yeah.

02:47:29.000 Okay.

02:47:29.000 Old school.

02:47:30.000 It's cool to introduce all that stuff into hunting.

02:47:32.000 Like if you're that passionate, you know, I did this.

02:47:36.000 I got the ice bath at home.

02:47:37.000 I did the hypoxic wellness, which is, I think I was telling Joe about this, where I decked the home gym out.

02:47:45.000 So it's basically a gym at altitude now.

02:47:48.000 And that's what I was using before I got to Utah.

02:47:51.000 And it actually made me be able to go from the bottom of the mountain to the top without stopping to take a breath, which is incredible.

02:47:59.000 So it's altitude training.

02:48:00.000 It's altitude training.

02:48:02.000 No, it's the whole room.

02:48:04.000 But this company called Leonix now, they make, say, it could be the size of this, and it would have red light therapy in here.

02:48:11.000 It would have a sauna in here.

02:48:13.000 It would have the hypoxic conditioning in here.

02:48:15.000 So basically pumping nitrogen into the room to drop the oxygen levels.

02:48:21.000 And so you could have gym equipment in here.

02:48:22.000 You could sit in here and read a book.

02:48:24.000 But the way that I've got it set out, I'm doing a workout in it now, and I've got a target in the corner.

02:48:29.000 I literally shoot my bow in there at like 14,500 feet.

02:48:34.000 And then to step out of that, like I live at sea level back in Australia, to step out of that at sea level, like you feel absolutely incredible.

02:48:42.000 Yeah, I bet.

02:48:43.000 And then that's so, what was Utah?

02:48:46.000 8,000?

02:48:47.000 Sometimes 7 something?

02:48:49.000 7 or 8,000 feet.

02:48:50.000 Probably 9 at the highest.

02:48:52.000 And I'd be training at 14,500.

02:48:52.000 Okay.

02:48:55.000 So I felt amazing when I went there.

02:48:57.000 Yeah.

02:48:58.000 It was all technology.

02:48:59.000 Technology.

02:49:01.000 That is useful.

02:49:01.000 Because, I mean, that's what athletes do.

02:49:03.000 Go to high-altitude training in the mountains, and then they come down to lower elevation where there's more oxygen, and there's more oxygen available to push themselves harder.

02:49:13.000 So, their body's used to that.

02:49:15.000 It created more red blood cells, essentially.

02:49:17.000 I think it's like a natural, I think that's what EPO they say does.

02:49:21.000 So, it's a natural way to do that.

02:49:24.000 And, yeah, I mean, it just doesn't stay very long.

02:49:27.000 Yeah, it only stays in your system.

02:49:27.000 Is that right?

02:49:29.000 Like, your system eventually acclimates to whatever the altitude is.

02:49:32.000 But before it does that, you have a nice advantage.

02:49:35.000 Like, there's that's why they're a couple weeks.

02:49:39.000 Okay.

02:49:39.000 I think that's why they probably put the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs.

02:49:44.000 You know, they wanted these people to train it.

02:49:46.000 It totally makes sense.

02:49:47.000 Yeah, it totally makes sense.

02:49:48.000 Train at altitude.

02:49:49.000 I found mentally I felt a lot better too.

02:49:52.000 And then, so I've now done a bit of reading up on it, and it's like the plasticity of the brain improves under those conditions as well.

02:49:59.000 And then makes sense.

02:50:01.000 Adapt or die.

02:50:03.000 Yeah.

02:50:03.000 I just feel so happy afterwards.

02:50:05.000 I was sleeping in there in the end because I was trying to fit in as much, which can be detrimental as well.

02:50:09.000 Like, you don't want to overdo it.

02:50:11.000 But I was sleeping in there in the end.

02:50:13.000 And I'd wake up in the morning and I was just like on a high for like four or five hours.

02:50:18.000 Why would they say not to overdo it?

02:50:20.000 Because when they go train at altitude, they're up there the whole time.

02:50:24.000 Just to get acclimated, I bet initially.

02:50:26.000 Yeah, and don't overdo it initially.

02:50:28.000 Yeah, okay.

02:50:29.000 And I also think that a part of the, you know, it'd be like overdoing your muscles if you just kept doing arms every single day.

02:50:29.000 Yeah.

02:50:36.000 You know, that's what he does.

02:50:38.000 I know.

02:50:41.000 You can't help it, can you?

02:50:44.000 Oh, bloody God.

02:50:45.000 That bike that you sent me is fucking awesome, by the way.

02:50:48.000 Oh, the step up.

02:50:49.000 Because I love the, you know, the air dyne bikes.

02:50:52.000 I love those things.

02:50:53.000 It's like my favorite conditioning thing.

02:50:54.000 And I love the echo bike from Rogue, but I think that one's even superior to the echo bike.

02:50:58.000 The bike bike, how consistent the drag is on it.

02:51:03.000 But even more importantly, it's harder.

02:51:05.000 Yeah.

02:51:06.000 It's harder to pull back.

02:51:07.000 Like the echo bike is easier to pull back.

02:51:09.000 That one has more resistance.

02:51:11.000 Yeah.

02:51:11.000 And when I first started using that one, I was like, whoa, this one's tough.

02:51:15.000 Like whatever you're getting out of the echo bike or the air dyne bike, that's that times two.

02:51:20.000 Really?

02:51:20.000 Yeah.

02:51:21.000 What is it called again?

02:51:21.000 Step R.

02:51:23.000 It's STPR, right?

02:51:24.000 Yep.

02:51:25.000 Yeah.

02:51:25.000 That thing fucking rules.

02:51:27.000 That thing rules.

02:51:28.000 I'll get them to deck you out because all their equipment's like that.

02:51:30.000 Well, that bike is the shit.

02:51:32.000 And it's also got different grips, different hand grips and different seats.

02:51:36.000 I'm changing that up.

02:51:37.000 I'm on the top.

02:51:38.000 I'm down.

02:51:38.000 Yeah, you can mix it up.

02:51:40.000 You can mix up where the resistance is coming from.

02:51:42.000 I actually lift the seat right up so it's nearly like I'm in the standing position.

02:51:47.000 Oh, like this.

02:51:48.000 With the seat up and the legs are right down, and it burns me.

02:51:48.000 Oh, nice.

02:51:52.000 It absolutely burns me.

02:51:52.000 Yeah.

02:51:53.000 I love it.

02:51:54.000 Yeah, it's a great low-impact cardio, too.

02:51:56.000 I mean, it really conditions the shit out of your legs and your lungs.

02:51:59.000 And it's, you know, you're not taking any pounding while you're doing it.

02:52:02.000 That thing's hard.

02:52:03.000 I'm stoked you like it.

02:52:04.000 Oh, I love it.

02:52:05.000 Yeah, because when it was in there, I didn't know when it gotten delivered.

02:52:08.000 And I was like, oh, what the fuck is this?

02:52:09.000 And then when it was in the gym, I started trying.

02:52:11.000 The moment I got on, I was like, oh.

02:52:14.000 And it's easy to crank up, too.

02:52:16.000 Like, it's right there.

02:52:17.000 There's no reaching down the handles right there.

02:52:20.000 Woo!

02:52:21.000 It's good.

02:52:22.000 There's so many different things you could use now, but what were you saying about earlier?

02:52:27.000 It's like you have the opportunity now to be better than you've ever been before.

02:52:31.000 Because of all this, you know, hormone optimization, the waste to well stuff, peptides, nutrition, understanding exercise science, and then equipment.

02:52:40.000 You could condition your body and you could be in amazing shape at 58, which is crazy.

02:52:45.000 The knowledge of knowing that's actually out there is I'm grateful for.

02:52:49.000 Oh, yeah.

02:52:50.000 Just the knowledge and knowing that we can be better every day.

02:52:54.000 We can be healthier physically and mentally.

02:52:56.000 It's great.

02:52:57.000 And I see, I do see a lot of doctors who kind of shit on BPC or shit on stem cells.

02:53:04.000 And I'm like, whatever you're saying, cool, but I've never felt better.

02:53:10.000 There's a lot of doctors.

02:53:13.000 You could say it doesn't work.

02:53:14.000 Yeah.

02:53:15.000 There's a lot of doctors.

02:53:16.000 I've talked to doctors that shit on it.

02:53:18.000 And I had this one conversation with a doctor that I like.

02:53:21.000 He's a nice guy.

02:53:22.000 And he's like, I think it's a lot of a placebo.

02:53:24.000 And I go, there's peer-reviewed studies on BBC 157.

02:53:27.000 Like, you're saying this and you haven't done the research.

02:53:29.000 Like this is not debatable.

02:53:31.000 Like BPC 157, there's a very clear pathway.

02:53:34.000 They show why it works.

02:53:36.000 It naturally exists in the human body and you can enhance your body's ability to recover from soft tissue injuries.

02:53:42.000 It's important.

02:53:42.000 It's good.

02:53:43.000 It's good for you.

02:53:44.000 Like the idea that somehow or another this is horseshit.

02:53:46.000 Like no, you're horseshit.

02:53:48.000 You're spitting out some nonsense.

02:53:49.000 And the problem is a lot of doctors in particular, a lot of very educated people that are specialists and whatever they're in.

02:53:56.000 Like, you know, you got a doctor, you went to school, you got a rather, you got a medical degree, you went to school, you did your residency.

02:54:02.000 You want to be the one who has all the information.

02:54:04.000 And when someone comes along and says, actually, a better way to do it is through stem cells.

02:54:09.000 Like, stem cells.

02:54:10.000 Yeah.

02:54:10.000 Like, what do you mean, oh, stem cells?

02:54:12.000 How much do you know?

02:54:14.000 Neil Riordan has written many papers on stem cells.

02:54:17.000 Like, there's documented efficacy on neurological conditions, soft tissue injuries, joint rehabilitation.

02:54:24.000 It's not guessing.

02:54:26.000 Like, for a doctor to say, I wouldn't mess with stem cells.

02:54:29.000 It's unproven.

02:54:31.000 The FDA hasn't approved it.

02:54:32.000 It's because the FDA sucks.

02:54:34.000 It doesn't mean that it doesn't work.

02:54:35.000 Like, there's scientists that are studying this stuff, and there's people that are using it.

02:54:39.000 You got shit tons of anecdotal evidence from world-class athletes that'll tell you the benefits of it.

02:54:44.000 It's the reason why the UFC has partnered up with CPI down in Mexico.

02:54:49.000 But they have to go to fucking Mexico to do this stuff, which is crazy.

02:54:52.000 Where it's not here and available.

02:54:54.000 Yeah, but Waste to Wells, Brigham in particular, is really working hard to make all that stuff available in the United States.

02:55:01.000 And it's only good.

02:55:02.000 It's good for everybody.

02:55:04.000 It's not bad for medicine.

02:55:05.000 People are always going to need doctors.

02:55:07.000 It's crazy.

02:55:08.000 It's just more advancement.

02:55:09.000 And the problem is it's going to, for sure, it's going to interfere with people who want to sell you pain pills.

02:55:17.000 It's going to interfere with people that want to do unnecessary surgeries.

02:55:21.000 And unfortunately, that's a real thing.

02:55:23.000 It's where they make their money.

02:55:25.000 And people like to say that, well, it's not FDA approved.

02:55:29.000 And I'm like, have you seen the shit that is FDA approved?

02:55:32.000 It's like, that doesn't mean anything to me.

02:55:34.000 I might not want to take it if it is.

02:55:36.000 Something like 30% of all medications that get approved by the FDA get pulled.

02:55:40.000 It's like, that doesn't mean shit to me.

02:55:40.000 Yeah.

02:55:42.000 What is the percentage?

02:55:43.000 Put that in there.

02:55:44.000 You look at all the fucking poisonous food they sell us, which is FDA approved.

02:55:49.000 I'm like, so that's your argument?

02:55:51.000 And not approved in other countries.

02:55:52.000 Yeah.

02:55:53.000 Like other countries have banned it, outlawed it.

02:55:55.000 And we're like, fine, it's fine.

02:55:57.000 It makes your Cheerios.

02:55:58.000 Saying the difference in ingredients between countries.

02:56:01.000 And it's like America has so much.

02:56:03.000 Cheerios is a bad example.

02:56:04.000 Fruit Loops is the best example.

02:56:06.000 Like the fact that they were like, oh, we can't do that.

02:56:09.000 Well, you do it in Canada.

02:56:10.000 You sell the fucking stuff with different dye, with natural dyes.

02:56:15.000 Yeah, it's not as bright, but it also doesn't kill you.

02:56:18.000 It's not poison.

02:56:20.000 It's just so gross.

02:56:21.000 I know.

02:56:22.000 They're so bought and paid for.

02:56:23.000 And here's the real problem.

02:56:25.000 A lot of these motherfuckers, they go from working at the FDA to cushy jobs in these major corporations.

02:56:31.000 It's like they have this golden parachute set.

02:56:33.000 100%.

02:56:34.000 Compromise.

02:56:34.000 2.9% of FDA approved new drugs from 1980 to 2021 were withdrawn specifically for safety reasons.

02:56:40.000 Out of 1,310 total approvals were 210.

02:56:44.000 16% were discontinued for overall various reasons, including marketing factors.

02:56:49.000 It's that low?

02:56:50.000 I thought it was higher than that.

02:56:52.000 Yeah, but look at down below where it says antibiotics face higher rates at 41%.

02:56:57.000 Whoa.

02:56:58.000 Okay, so all told, I wonder what the pharmaceutical drugs that get pulled are.

02:57:03.000 Yeah.

02:57:04.000 Antibiotics, 41% is nuts.

02:57:06.000 Yeah.

02:57:07.000 Well, and 23% of oncology.

02:57:09.000 I mean.

02:57:10.000 Indications withdrawn.

02:57:11.000 Wow.

02:57:12.000 It's like, what the fuck?

02:57:13.000 I mean, we're just like guessing on this shit.

02:57:16.000 Wow, it's not guessing.

02:57:17.000 It's like one of the problems with some of these studies is they're getting information from the pharmaceutical drug companies themselves.

02:57:23.000 Like I had this lawyer on that was explaining to me how he litigated a case against pharmaceutical drug companies.

02:57:28.000 And that one of the issues that they found was that these guys would run 10 tests and they would find no efficacy.

02:57:36.000 But so they would rig a test in a very biased way that showed the smallest amount of statistical significance.

02:57:43.000 And then they would say it's statistically significant.

02:57:46.000 And they would push that.

02:57:47.000 And their only motivation was profit.

02:57:49.000 They weren't saying this is going to cure cancer.

02:57:51.000 This is going to stop blindness.

02:57:53.000 No, it's like we can make money on this.

02:57:55.000 And there's even one of the cases with Viox where there was emails exchanged with the pharmaceutical drug companies talking about all the problems that it was going to cause, but we think we will do well with this.

02:58:07.000 Yeah.

02:58:08.000 Which is crazy.

02:58:09.000 I remember we looked that one up before.

02:58:11.000 It's like it's, yeah.

02:58:14.000 I mean, it's nuts how this medicine stuff works, but it's like they're still like with the COVID vaccine, still things coming out.

02:58:22.000 I saw last night on TV about in a small number of cases, it can cause heart sum or whatever the fuck.

02:58:28.000 But we've seen a number of these announcements like all these, finally this negative stuff about the vaccine.

02:58:36.000 Did it do any positive?

02:58:37.000 Probably not.

02:58:38.000 But all this fucking negative.

02:58:40.000 And that was just coming out years later.

02:58:42.000 And we were bombarded with propaganda that it was necessary to stay alive.

02:58:45.000 Like there was one, I think it was the Atlantic that had one headline that said, if you're unvaccinated, it might be time to make your end of life will.

02:58:57.000 And then the same magazine years later, COVID vaccines may cause heart damage.

02:59:05.000 Same exact magazine.

02:59:08.000 Fuck you.

02:59:09.000 Because you guys only said that because you were being pressured by your advertisers or you were being pressured by culture or society.

02:59:09.000 Yeah.

02:59:16.000 You didn't look at the history of pharmaceutical medication and how much they're full of shit.

02:59:21.000 They've paid some of the biggest criminal fines in U.S. history because they fucking lied.

02:59:25.000 And the same companies are still selling you shit.

02:59:27.000 You think they came to Jesus?

02:59:29.000 Do you think they're different now and they don't just try to make money?

02:59:33.000 And if you question that, you're a conspiracy theorist and a kook and you're taking horse medication.

02:59:41.000 It's so infuriating how many people buy into stuff.

02:59:43.000 Right.

02:59:44.000 And how they don't even get in trouble for lying to everybody for so long, for years, just lies and propaganda.

02:59:51.000 Face no recourse, not financial, not social.

02:59:55.000 Nobody's receiving it.

02:59:56.000 Not reputational, no recourse.

02:59:58.000 That's disgusting.

03:00:00.000 I'm still waiting for Fauci to be strung up.

03:00:02.000 He can't be.

03:00:03.000 He got a giant pardon by the auto pen.

03:00:09.000 Well, but what's so frustrating, too, is that, so they basically said, hey, you have to take this poison or you're going to lose your job.

03:00:16.000 Yeah.

03:00:17.000 Or you won't be able to do this or you won't be able to do that.

03:00:19.000 So take this poison.

03:00:20.000 But then something that we've shown works, stem cell, BPC, that's what they'll shit on.

03:00:27.000 It's just like, why?

03:00:28.000 They're just worried about losing control and they're worried about losing profits and they're worried about compounding pharmacies, making this stuff.

03:00:34.000 And they want peptides.

03:00:35.000 They want all this stuff, but they want to be able to market it only under their brand.

03:00:39.000 They want to own it.

03:00:41.000 They want to have patents for all this stuff.

03:00:43.000 And that's where the real problem comes.

03:00:44.000 A lot of these really effective things they can't patent.

03:00:47.000 Right.

03:00:48.000 It's, yeah, I'll tie it to the money.

03:00:50.000 I have a code for peptides that weighs 12.

03:00:53.000 I wish I could remember it so we could use it.

03:00:56.000 That's probably Cam.

03:00:57.000 Is it CAM?

03:00:58.000 It's probably dumb.

03:01:00.000 Dumb fuck.

03:01:02.000 You don't know what your code is?

03:01:03.000 No.

03:01:04.000 Check all Brigham?

03:01:04.000 Really?

03:01:05.000 Let's end this podcast.

03:01:07.000 Well, I don't want to bother him.

03:01:09.000 We'll figure it out.

03:01:10.000 Figure it out, fuckers.

03:01:11.000 Cam, I'll put it on his Instagram.

03:01:11.000 I'll put it on.

03:01:13.000 On my Instagram story.

03:01:13.000 I won't put it on an actual post.

03:01:15.000 It's not that important.

03:01:17.000 Well, put it on whatever.

03:01:17.000 Okay.

03:01:18.000 Do whatever the fuck you want to do.

03:01:19.000 I don't care.

03:01:21.000 Well, okay.

03:01:22.000 So here's what I wanted to end the podcast with.

03:01:24.000 What's one thing you learned this season bow hunting?

03:01:27.000 Or wait, is this my call to how we end it?

03:01:29.000 Yeah, you can do it.

03:01:30.000 You get to it.

03:01:32.000 What did I learn this season?

03:01:36.000 I always learn one thing every year: how important leg conditioning is.

03:01:40.000 So fucking important.

03:01:42.000 God, maybe the most, especially elk hunting, it is the most important thing.

03:01:46.000 Leg conditioning is fucking everything.

03:01:48.000 If you can't get up those mountains and be fit and be able to do it over and over and over again over like five days of miles and miles and miles, like no matter what I did, I need to do more.

03:01:58.000 That's what I learned that for sure.

03:02:00.000 That's a big one.

03:02:01.000 You can never be in too good a shape.

03:02:03.000 Never be in too good a shape.

03:02:05.000 Never have your legs conditioned enough.

03:02:06.000 And you can overpractice archery.

03:02:09.000 I learned that too because I started developing this low back problem that I've been going to this trigger point massage.

03:02:15.000 Oh my God.

03:02:15.000 I went today.

03:02:16.000 Helps.

03:02:16.000 I get so scared every time I go into this guy's office.

03:02:19.000 He fucking tortures me.

03:02:20.000 It's horrible.

03:02:21.000 Especially when he does the IT band with his fucking knuckles and his elbow.

03:02:24.000 It's horrible.

03:02:25.000 But it's super effective.

03:02:27.000 I just, I got essentially, I got tendinitis in my lower back.

03:02:32.000 Overuse injury.

03:02:33.000 Just overuse.

03:02:34.000 Because I'm pulling back an 80-pound bow a hundred times over and over and over again, days after days after day.

03:02:39.000 And every time it would hurt, I would be an idiot and I would go, ah, work through it.

03:02:43.000 And you're obsessive.

03:02:44.000 It got bad.

03:02:45.000 Yeah, I'm a little obsessive.

03:02:46.000 It got bad.

03:02:47.000 But that's why you're great at things, too.

03:02:49.000 Yeah, it's a double-edged sword.

03:02:51.000 But you got to learn, like you were talking about, not overdoing it in the hypoxic thing.

03:02:56.000 You got to learn.

03:02:57.000 And I don't learn always, but I try to.

03:03:00.000 I learned those things.

03:03:01.000 Yeah.

03:03:02.000 Those are huge.

03:03:03.000 So, so, okay, what are you going to do for your legs then?

03:03:06.000 Continue not stopping with leg conditioning ever until September.

03:03:12.000 Okay.

03:03:13.000 Like, there was a lot of times.

03:03:15.000 One thing is waste wells helped me.

03:03:17.000 I got a fucking weird left knee, but the latest round of stem cells that I had did real, they did a real improvement.

03:03:25.000 Like, I really notice it.

03:03:26.000 And I'm protecting it.

03:03:28.000 I'm not doing anything stupid in the meantime.

03:03:31.000 You know, like no jujitsu, like no getting heel hooked, nothing that's going to aggravate it and just build up my conditioning and maintain it over the year.

03:03:41.000 That's that's a big one.

03:03:43.000 Yeah.

03:03:43.000 That's a good.

03:03:44.000 What did you learn, Cam Haines?

03:03:45.000 Me?

03:03:46.000 No, it's Adam's turn.

03:03:47.000 Oh, you go last.

03:03:49.000 I think I learned a lot this season, but just like more about life than just in a bow hunting scenario.

03:03:56.000 But I think the biggest thing that I took away from it is health as in mental and physical, and that you can always like step it up and you can always be better.

03:04:06.000 And I think, like, I just, you know, like family life, whatever excuses I can come up with, you know, business and not having the time to put in the extra, but finding the extra time because of how valuable it is and what the payoff in that is, you know, being physically healthy makes it a lot easier to be mentally healthy.

03:04:27.000 Because you went for a while where you really didn't work out much.

03:04:30.000 I just, I bow hunted a lot, you know, and I was on the tools a lot, like being in, you know, the building game.

03:04:30.000 I didn't.

03:04:36.000 But it's not, that's different.

03:04:38.000 It's a different sort of health, you know, whereas in actually targeting, you know, losing weight, eating clean, you know, because it's not just about the gym.

03:04:47.000 It's like everything that else that goes with it.

03:04:49.000 So I learned to eat a lot more cleaner.

03:04:52.000 I started doing the hypoxic wellness studio.

03:04:57.000 And I think a combination of those things and seeing the payoff in two weeks, you know, I'm not talking months.

03:05:03.000 It was like in two weeks I could see a massive difference when you lined everything up, eating healthy.

03:05:09.000 That made the mountains a lot more easier and a lot more enjoyable.

03:05:13.000 I'm not saying I did more of the mountains.

03:05:15.000 I think I only covered the same sort of miles, but it was just a lot more enjoyable.

03:05:20.000 And that example that I kept saying to you, like going from the bottom of the mountain to the top without having four or five breaks in between when you're like and hurting, it was just a lot more enjoyable.

03:05:31.000 I'd stop, you know, and it's just like I wasn't even taking deep breaths.

03:05:35.000 I was already scanning the mountains for a bull, you know, and I think it just became a lot more enjoyable.

03:05:41.000 And then getting the headspace from that too, whether it's from me feeling better, whether it's from better plasticity of the mind, I just overall I just felt a lot better, a lot more connected, a lot more grateful as well, as in because you feel good.

03:05:57.000 So it's easier to think of things more and be more grateful.

03:05:57.000 Yeah.

03:06:01.000 I like that.

03:06:02.000 That's well, what I took from that is you said climbing the mountain is more enjoyable.

03:06:08.000 To me, that means you're going to make better decisions.

03:06:10.000 You're going to be when you're hunting, you know, because when we're fatigued, there's this famous saying: fatigue makes cowards of us all, but it also, we make poor decisions when we're fatigued.

03:06:10.000 Yes.

03:06:21.000 So you being at a higher level just physically allows you to hunt better, is what I always think because we're not taking shortcuts, we're making better decisions.

03:06:30.000 We're reading the animal better.

03:06:31.000 We're instead of like looking for a, because we're gassed, so we don't want to kick things, so we're looking at the ground more, instead, our heads up and we're reading the situation better.

03:06:41.000 So it's just, it results in just better hunting and you enjoy it more.

03:06:46.000 But I love that.

03:06:46.000 Yeah, definitely.

03:06:48.000 What I learned is that I think I enjoy the success of others.

03:06:54.000 And this has been reinforced over the years, but this year specifically, I enjoy being part of the success of others and taking others like new hunters and just sharing our lifestyle with them and just what's important to me.

03:07:07.000 And it gives me a chance to share.

03:07:11.000 When you talk to somebody on the phone, you're not like getting deep.

03:07:14.000 But when you're on a hunt, you get that opportunity.

03:07:17.000 And they're more, I don't know if they have to listen because they can't go anywhere or it's just they're more interested in listening, but it allows me to really like share why nature in the mountains and what I do is important.

03:07:31.000 And it seems like it's real, it really resonates with people.

03:07:34.000 And it's just, I, that has given me so much strength and I don't know, I just, and purpose.

03:07:44.000 It's just sharing our lifestyle with others.

03:07:46.000 That's what I've learned that drives me.

03:07:48.000 Yeah, it's been like that for a long time too.

03:07:50.000 Like that first buffalo hunt that we went on back in Australia and you killed a bull and it was like, I was as happy for you as if I killed it.

03:07:59.000 And then when I killed my bull, it might have been the last day.

03:08:01.000 Like it was the same.

03:08:02.000 It was all like hugs and that was awesome and I could see it glowing in your face.

03:08:06.000 You know, that you want you relish in other people's success as well.

03:08:11.000 Gentlemen, this was awesome.

03:08:14.000 Thank you.

03:08:15.000 Always great to hang out with you guys.

03:08:16.000 Thank you.

03:08:17.000 It's a pleasure, buddy.

03:08:18.000 Love you too.

03:08:19.000 All right.

The Joe Rogan Experience - December 16, 2025

Joe Rogan Experience #2426 - Cameron Hanes & Adam Greentree

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