The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2428 - Michael P. Masters

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan podcast, check it out!

00:00:03.000 The Joe Rogan experience.

00:00:06.000 Train my day, Joe Rogan, podcast by night, all day!

00:00:14.000 Yeah.

00:00:15.000 Disclosure day.

00:00:17.000 Very interesting.

00:00:19.000 Yeah, I'm excited for it.

00:00:21.000 Yeah, he was always like way ahead of the curve when it comes to the whole UAP UFO stuff.

00:00:28.000 You know, with Close Encounters of the Third Kind, he had that French scientist that was essentially modeled after Jacques Vallée.

00:00:35.000 He's always been, I would love to talk to him.

00:00:39.000 I wonder how much he knows.

00:00:40.000 Is that an accident?

00:00:41.000 Was he fed some information?

00:00:44.000 Was he a part of disclosure the whole time?

00:00:46.000 That's what I've always wondered.

00:00:48.000 I mean, what does that mean, right?

00:00:50.000 Because there hasn't really been disclosure.

00:00:51.000 No, but it has to be a slow process, too, right?

00:00:54.000 think so i don't think i mean the whole idea is that they're just sort of normalizing it right Neuro-linguistic programming, they call it, where you're slowly getting people accustomed to these ideas.

00:01:06.000 Like the aspects of close encounters, for instance, where you have the radiation burns on the guy's face, you have a time travel component where these World War II soldiers get out of the craft with the little beans and the bigger being.

00:01:20.000 And I mean, just seeding our culture with those little bits of information that might help later on down the bus.

00:01:26.000 That was like in the 70s, wasn't it?

00:01:28.000 Like, when was Close Encounters?

00:01:30.000 Yeah, I think it was.

00:01:31.000 Was it the 70s?

00:01:32.000 Late 70s, early 80s, maybe.

00:01:35.000 Either way, I mean, like, a lot of stuff he's done.

00:01:39.000 Like, I rewatched the God, what was it, Jeff Bridges, Starman?

00:01:44.000 I think.

00:01:44.000 There's a lot of elements of disclosure in that, too.

00:01:47.000 Like, I think there's just, I don't know.

00:01:49.000 I mean, obviously we don't know who's pulling the strings.

00:01:52.000 We don't know what's going on.

00:01:53.000 We don't know who's in charge.

00:01:54.000 But it does make sense that if there is this thing that they know about that we're supposed to know about, leak it out, do it slowly, get in our culture, get it in our media in different ways.

00:02:05.000 You know the Hal putoff story, right, with George Bush?

00:02:08.000 Do you know the story where they were talking about, okay, Hal talked about it on my podcast, but he also talked about it in the Age of Disclosure documentary where they brought in him and a bunch of different prominent thinkers.

00:02:20.000 Yeah, I watched that episode and I watched the Daco.

00:02:23.000 So to people that don't know, I'll just explain it.

00:02:25.000 So they brought in him and a bunch of other prominent thinkers and they had, they sat them down and said, essentially, we have recovered crashed UFOs.

00:02:35.000 We have biological remains of these creatures.

00:02:39.000 We are considering releasing it to the public and we want to make an assessment of what are the pros and what are the cons.

00:02:45.000 So we want to assign a numerical value that you're estimating what kind of an impact it would be on government, finances, religion, et cetera.

00:02:57.000 Well, whether they should do it, basically whether or not they should release this information.

00:03:00.000 And all of the people that were brought in came to the agreement that there was more con than there were pro, and that formed their decision to not release it.

00:03:10.000 And didn't he say at first?

00:03:11.000 Like he was pro-disclosure.

00:03:12.000 He was like, of course we should do this.

00:03:14.000 And then after the conversation, he switched teams.

00:03:17.000 Yeah, I don't know about that.

00:03:18.000 Maybe.

00:03:19.000 Perhaps.

00:03:20.000 He said that he went into it thinking, well, yeah, obviously we should do this.

00:03:24.000 And then sort of was convinced otherwise after the conversation unfolded.

00:03:28.000 Yeah, how could you be convinced?

00:03:30.000 Like whose decision should it be?

00:03:32.000 If some people know, everyone should know.

00:03:34.000 It's a humanity decision.

00:03:36.000 I don't think it should be in anybody's hands to decide whether or not this information gets distributed.

00:03:43.000 And the implications, too, if they have zero-point energy, like how would that solve the problems that we face today?

00:03:49.000 There's so many ramifications of it that, yeah.

00:03:53.000 Whose decision is it and why has it been kept from us?

00:03:56.000 I don't buy that whole like Orson Welles 1938, everybody a freak out bullshit.

00:04:00.000 I don't, I don't think that's the case, at least not anymore.

00:04:04.000 There's got to be something more to it than that.

00:04:06.000 It would certainly have, I don't know if they factor this in, but a uniting element.

00:04:11.000 Like you remember the Reagan speech we gave in front of the United Nations.

00:04:14.000 We said, imagine how united we would be.

00:04:17.000 We'd forget our differences if we were faced with an alien threat from another world.

00:04:20.000 I mean, just knowing that we are all united.

00:04:24.000 I mean, how old are you?

00:04:27.000 47.

00:04:28.000 Okay, so you remember September 11th.

00:04:31.000 One of the things that happened after September 11th was it was a horrible tragedy, but there was a beautiful result temporarily where everybody was really united, like really united.

00:04:43.000 Like there was American flags and everybody's car in Los Angeles.

00:04:46.000 You know, like the most ridiculous, progressive, sort of kind of, you know, kind of fucked up place.

00:04:53.000 But everybody became patriotic.

00:04:55.000 And in New York, everyone was friendly.

00:04:57.000 I mean, people were smiling and saying hi to each other on the streets.

00:05:00.000 We had all decided that we were together and that we were faced with a real threat and that we had to be united.

00:05:06.000 I remember it well.

00:05:08.000 Yeah.

00:05:08.000 You're right.

00:05:09.000 And not to get too weird too fast here, but if there are aspects of sort of an all-encompassing consciousness that unites us associated with the UFO phenomenon too, if we recognize that we are just fingerprints on the same hand, we're all iterations of the same overarching consciousness, if seemingly there is a part of that in the UFO phenomenon.

00:05:31.000 Yeah.

00:05:32.000 How would that unite us as well, even beyond the threat from outside?

00:05:36.000 Like if we did start to understand that we're all part of the same sort of cosmic community.

00:05:42.000 Sounds kind of weird to say that.

00:05:44.000 It does sound weird, but have you seen the Apple show Pluribus?

00:05:48.000 No, it comes up a lot.

00:05:49.000 Worth watching?

00:05:50.000 It's really good.

00:05:51.000 It's really good.

00:05:52.000 It's very, very original, very unique.

00:05:54.000 But that is essentially what happens, and it has a negative aspect to it.

00:05:58.000 There's a virus.

00:05:59.000 I don't want to give away too much of it for people that want to watch the show because it's a really good show.

00:06:03.000 But there's a virus that they get a signal from another world and they figure out what this signal is.

00:06:12.000 And through this lab work, they reveal that this signal is some sort of the encoding of a specific virus.

00:06:22.000 They work on this specific virus.

00:06:25.000 It spreads and the entire planet becomes one consciousness, except for a small number of people.

00:06:32.000 Interesting.

00:06:33.000 It's a weird show.

00:06:34.000 It's a really good show.

00:06:35.000 I don't want to explain any more of it like that without any spoiler alerts, but it's fucking great.

00:06:40.000 But it's strange.

00:06:42.000 It's like, wouldn't that be better?

00:06:43.000 There's no crime.

00:06:44.000 There's no this, there's no that.

00:06:46.000 And then it reveals all the problems that come along with that.

00:06:48.000 Yeah, I'm going to have to watch that as a counterpoint, if anything else, because it makes sense to me that if everyone's kind of united as one super organism of sorts, but you lose all individuality.

00:07:02.000 You lose all the fun parts about being an imperfect person.

00:07:05.000 Right.

00:07:05.000 Because we are an imperfect species, but that's also what makes great art.

00:07:09.000 That's what makes great music.

00:07:11.000 It's what makes great fun.

00:07:12.000 Most creative people have the most trauma in their past from what I've seen.

00:07:17.000 And if you have zero trauma, you probably have sucky art.

00:07:22.000 It's just stick figures and shit.

00:07:24.000 I mean, I wonder why would be, I mean, if they would even have a need for it.

00:07:29.000 Because it's our expression.

00:07:30.000 It's getting your angry out.

00:07:31.000 Right.

00:07:32.000 Or your angst or your anxiety or depression, whatever it is.

00:07:36.000 You're getting something.

00:07:37.000 I was telling my son that the other day, obviously his name.

00:07:40.000 You know, it's hard being in these bodies, especially going through puberty.

00:07:43.000 You know, you're just like, what is this thing I'm carrying?

00:07:46.000 This little meat suit, you know?

00:07:47.000 And I was like, man, I was the same way.

00:07:50.000 I still am the same way.

00:07:52.000 And I picked up instruments.

00:07:53.000 I started painting.

00:07:54.000 And I'd learned to play every sport I could physically play.

00:07:57.000 Like, there's ways to get that out, you know, but it seems like a lot of that does come from just the anxiety and the anger.

00:08:04.000 Sure.

00:08:04.000 And, you know, you're growing into yourself.

00:08:06.000 You're starting to get the feels.

00:08:08.000 You know, you look at women differently.

00:08:09.000 And it's like, what do I do with this?

00:08:12.000 Well, it changes, it rewires the entire way you view the world.

00:08:17.000 And meanwhile, your body is physically changing and growing.

00:08:20.000 You're like, what am I going to look like eventually?

00:08:22.000 This is weird.

00:08:23.000 It's so weird.

00:08:25.000 You know, there's actually this in a small island in the Pacific, they have this weird characteristic where they start out as females. 0.66

00:08:33.000 Everybody does.

00:08:34.000 We all start out as females in Eudro.

00:08:36.000 And then maleness is imposed on the developing fetus.

00:08:40.000 But they don't until puberty because they're not sensitive to dihydrotestosterone, the precursor to testosterone.

00:08:46.000 So they grow up their entire life as girls, and then at puberty, they turn into a boy.

00:08:51.000 So they get raised as girls? 0.99

00:08:53.000 They are girls.

00:08:53.000 They're physically girls.

00:08:55.000 Not yet.

00:08:56.000 Nope.

00:08:56.000 What?

00:08:57.000 Is this a planet?

00:08:58.000 No, this is an island.

00:09:00.000 It's an island in the South Pacific.

00:09:02.000 It's called pseudohermaphroditism.

00:09:04.000 I know I learned about this in grad school.

00:09:06.000 Well, they look like gestures.

00:09:07.000 They look like girls. 0.86

00:09:09.000 Exactly like girls. 0.85

00:09:10.000 They are girls.

00:09:11.000 And then the ovaries descend as testicles and the clitoris grows out into a penis. 1.00

00:09:15.000 Wow.

00:09:16.000 So you think puberty is hard enough already?

00:09:18.000 These people turn into the opposite sex at age like 12 or 13. 1.00

00:09:22.000 It's wild, man.

00:09:23.000 So is this a bizarre genetic anomaly?

00:09:25.000 Is it something to do with that?

00:09:26.000 Yeah, so a lot of times on islands, you get like really strange characteristics of people because of the isolation.

00:09:33.000 And those characteristics get selected just through genetic drift alone because it's a small population.

00:09:38.000 So just probably one person had this really weird trait where they're insensitive to dihydrotestosterone and then it spread throughout more of the population.

00:09:46.000 It doesn't do anything.

00:09:47.000 It's not something natural selection would select against.

00:09:50.000 It's just weird as shit.

00:09:52.000 What is the name of this island?

00:09:53.000 I don't remember the name of the island.

00:09:55.000 But the condition's called.

00:09:57.000 Find it?

00:09:57.000 I think it's Malo Island on Vanadu or something.

00:09:59.000 Oh, yeah, Vanadu.

00:10:00.000 How many people are on that island?

00:10:02.000 It says there's a population in 1979 of 2,300 people.

00:10:06.000 Yeah, and think historically different kinds of people there or something.

00:10:09.000 It says two or three.

00:10:10.000 Two different kinds of people.

00:10:11.000 Two cultural groups.

00:10:12.000 Isn't that wild, though, man?

00:10:14.000 I remember hearing about that in grad school at Ohio State, and I was just like, I'm sorry, what?

00:10:18.000 That was so strange.

00:10:20.000 I'm sure you've seen those people, the ostrich feet people in Africa. 1.00

00:10:24.000 It's a very strange genetic anomaly where they don't grow toes.

00:10:28.000 They essentially have two very wide appendages.

00:10:32.000 Weird.

00:10:33.000 Yeah, it looks like a weird bird foot.

00:10:38.000 It's very strange, but a bunch of people in this particular tribe share this trait.

00:10:43.000 Is there any advantage or it's just like this where it just kind of happened?

00:10:47.000 Yeah, I don't know.

00:10:48.000 I don't know.

00:10:48.000 I mean, I don't know what advantage there would be.

00:10:51.000 Maybe it's really sexy to them.

00:10:55.000 Maybe you could move better with it.

00:10:57.000 I don't know.

00:10:58.000 That's what they look like.

00:10:59.000 Whoa.

00:10:59.000 Yeah.

00:11:00.000 I don't know how I haven't seen that.

00:11:01.000 That's wild.

00:11:02.000 I don't know.

00:11:02.000 Isn't that crazy?

00:11:03.000 I mean, it is kind of sexy.

00:11:05.000 If that's what you're into, dog.

00:11:07.000 How long have you been doing that?

00:11:08.000 I've never heard of that's been going on for.

00:11:10.000 Vedoma.

00:11:12.000 See, that seems like more of like a defect that just worked toward fixity in the population.

00:11:18.000 Maybe not.

00:11:19.000 Well, that just makes you wonder, like, why don't we, it's in Zimbabwe, apparently.

00:11:23.000 Why don't we all have that?

00:11:25.000 You know, like, what is the reason why we have all these toes that it's called electrodactyl?

00:11:32.000 Yeah.

00:11:34.000 Electrodactyly.

00:11:36.000 I mean, historically, prehistorically, evolutionarily, I should say, if you did have something like that and you were a hunter-gatherer, you're kind of boned.

00:11:44.000 You know, you're not going to be able to run after gazelles.

00:11:46.000 I don't know.

00:11:46.000 Maybe you can.

00:11:49.000 Their feet are well adapted to the Zimbabwez.

00:11:52.000 Oh, Zambazi, not Zimbabwe. 0.99

00:11:54.000 Zambazi Valley's rough terrain, allowing them to move quickly and efficiently through the landscape.

00:12:00.000 All right, I take it back.

00:12:01.000 I guess that's it.

00:12:02.000 Well, it kind of makes sense, right?

00:12:03.000 Because what it's saying is that their bones are fused.

00:12:06.000 If you scroll up, it'll say the condition affecting ostrich-footed tribe, a genetic mutation passed down through generations causes the bones in the feet to fuse, resulting in a claw-like structure with two large toes.

00:12:17.000 Toes are very vulnerable.

00:12:19.000 I don't know if you've ever broken a toe, but so.

00:12:21.000 I broke one an hour before I got on the plane to come here.

00:12:23.000 Really?

00:12:24.000 If you can see my left foot.

00:12:25.000 Oh, that's hilarious.

00:12:26.000 That's ridiculous.

00:12:27.000 Like, the whole thing is just purple.

00:12:28.000 Yeah, they're so small.

00:12:30.000 Like, my pinky toe, I was messing around with my pinky toe the other day because I have to trim my toenails, right?

00:12:35.000 And the pinky toe is like barely a nail.

00:12:38.000 It's so tiny.

00:12:39.000 And I'm like, God, this little thing is so vulnerable, and it has to support my entire body weight or part of my entire body weight.

00:12:46.000 Yeah, they're so dumb.

00:12:48.000 Oh, yeah.

00:12:48.000 You can see that.

00:12:49.000 It's awesome.

00:12:50.000 It's jacked.

00:12:50.000 Yeah, dude.

00:12:51.000 That was like right before I was coming down here.

00:12:53.000 I'm like, you're kidding me.

00:12:56.000 Yeah.

00:12:56.000 Well, I've broken a bunch of toes.

00:12:58.000 It's very, very annoying.

00:13:00.000 And you would imagine if you had two giant fucking elbow bones down there instead of these bitchy ass little toesies. 1.00

00:13:07.000 Oh, maybe that's why they did it.

00:13:08.000 Maybe that's what they got going on.

00:13:10.000 Kind of makes sense that that would be an adaptation.

00:13:12.000 Invincible feet.

00:13:14.000 Yeah.

00:13:14.000 Well, you know, we're so vulnerable.

00:13:17.000 And that's one of the weirder things.

00:13:19.000 So first, we should get into what you do because you have a very interesting theory.

00:13:24.000 Tell everybody what your background is, first of all.

00:13:28.000 Yeah, all right.

00:13:28.000 That does seem like a good place to start.

00:13:32.000 My background is in anthropology and biological anthropology.

00:13:37.000 My research mostly focuses on evolutionary anatomy, biomedicine.

00:13:41.000 I've done some archaeology, various places around the world in Montana.

00:13:46.000 But the reason I'm here, I assume, because according to my friend Matt, we were butchering a mule deer, I think, I shot.

00:13:54.000 And I was like, yeah, I got to go to this conference.

00:13:57.000 And I was like, do you want to know what it's about?

00:13:59.000 He's like, nobody gives a shit about what you do other than the UFOs, man.

00:14:02.000 I was like, Damn, he's right.

00:14:04.000 Like, I did actually used to do a lot of what I thought was cool stuff.

00:14:08.000 But no, the main thing is that I've become known for advocating for this idea that UFOs and the aliens are actually our time-traveling future human descendants.

00:14:22.000 I wouldn't even say as opposed to extraterrestrials because I do think that's a component too.

00:14:26.000 I oftentimes get pigeonholed.

00:14:28.000 People are like, oh, you just think they're all time travelers.

00:14:30.000 I don't.

00:14:31.000 I actually say this all the time, but it doesn't matter.

00:14:34.000 I do think there's a lot going on.

00:14:36.000 But my background, and the reason I approach this question this way is because there's a lot of characteristics of these aliens that look so hominin.

00:14:45.000 They look just like us.

00:14:46.000 And specifically what we'd expect to see in our hominin future if the same evolutionary trends continue into the future.

00:14:53.000 So I kind of just tie those things together.

00:14:55.000 And even the saucer-shaped craft seemingly are time machines themselves.

00:14:59.000 So that's kind of the Cliff Notes version.

00:15:02.000 Well, it's a theory that a lot of people have independently sort of come to, right?

00:15:07.000 Yeah, especially recently.

00:15:08.000 And the concept of just if you just think about ancient man, I was watching this documentary on Neanderthals last night about this one intact Neanderthal skeleton that they found that was, it had sort of been, he had died in a cave and, you know, the stalact mites, his stalactites were mites.

00:15:32.000 How do you say it?

00:15:32.000 Tites are up, mites are down.

00:15:34.000 So he was essentially mineralized.

00:15:36.000 There was stuff all over the body and it took a long time for them to break this body.

00:15:40.000 I think I saw that.

00:15:41.000 Was that on Netflix?

00:15:43.000 No, I was watching it on YouTube.

00:15:44.000 Maybe originally it was on Netflix.

00:15:46.000 But it was just documenting how strange this body was that they had found, but it was immensely strong, like much stronger than us.

00:15:55.000 One of the interesting things was that their visual cortex, the part of the brain that would process imagery, was larger than ours, 10 to 20% larger.

00:16:06.000 Yeah.

00:16:07.000 And so these things probably had better eyesight than us.

00:16:10.000 Perhaps even were able to see at night.

00:16:12.000 And that this was a bigger, stronger version of a human being, like much more durable than what we are, modern 2025 Homo sapiens.

00:16:22.000 If you just look, yeah, that's it.

00:16:25.000 So that's one of them.

00:16:25.000 That's cool.

00:16:26.000 Neither human nor Neanderthal.

00:16:28.000 Oh, really?

00:16:29.000 This is a published.

00:16:31.000 This might not be the same one.

00:16:33.000 This is maybe a different one.

00:16:34.000 That's a weird one because what's that fucking thing on its head?

00:16:37.000 That's what it says.

00:16:37.000 It's a stalactite growing out of it or something.

00:16:40.000 Wow.

00:16:41.000 In a weird form.

00:16:42.000 Weird.

00:16:42.000 Yeah, it's like a unicorn.

00:16:44.000 Yeah, like a crest.

00:16:46.000 They do have a sagittal ridge.

00:16:48.000 Yes.

00:16:50.000 Homo erectus had one.

00:16:51.000 There's an offshoot in our hominin lineage called the Paranthropus or Robust Australopithecines, and they had a full-on like gorilla style.

00:17:00.000 Really?

00:17:00.000 Sagittal ridge.

00:17:01.000 Yeah, because they were vegetarian, so they just chewed all day.

00:17:03.000 Right.

00:17:03.000 So they had massive muscles to chew.

00:17:05.000 Yeah, their whole face is huge.

00:17:07.000 Wow.

00:17:08.000 Neanderthals kind of, I mean, they were just big. 0.99

00:17:11.000 It's just a robusticity thing, but there is evidence from Shanadar cave in Iraq where they were using their teeth as tools.

00:17:19.000 We think they were like tanning hides.

00:17:20.000 They were holding the hide in their mouth and then like scraping all the nasty bits off.

00:17:24.000 Oh.

00:17:25.000 And you can see that in the toothware.

00:17:26.000 So yeah, they were pretty badass.

00:17:29.000 They were the first.

00:17:30.000 I don't know.

00:17:31.000 I think this is cool, but a lot of people think I'm a nerd too.

00:17:35.000 They were the first to use the flake.

00:17:38.000 Like for 2.8 million years, we just hit a piece of rock and we're like, oh, this cool tool.

00:17:43.000 But then they figured out that if you hit the rock in just the right way, the piece that falls off makes an even better tool.

00:17:50.000 It took us like 2.5 million.

00:17:52.000 Yes.

00:17:52.000 Exactly.

00:17:53.000 You make an arrowhead.

00:17:53.000 And from that point on, like, I got to work at a place called Che Pinot Jonesac in southern France for a summer, and it was a Neanderthal site.

00:18:02.000 And we found these.

00:18:03.000 Actually, it's pretty funny because when we first got there, these tools called MTA hand axes, Musterian of those Schulian tradition hand axes.

00:18:10.000 There were only eight found in all of Europe.

00:18:13.000 And they said, if you guys find one of these, we'll buy you all the beer and all the cognac you can drink.

00:18:18.000 So we're in the cognac region of France.

00:18:20.000 And we found one like the fourth or fifth day.

00:18:23.000 We went on to find seven more over the course of that week.

00:18:26.000 We doubled the number of these things in existence in all of Europe.

00:18:31.000 And they were not lying.

00:18:32.000 They bought us so many damn beers.

00:18:35.000 Like archaeologists like to drink.

00:18:37.000 Sure.

00:18:38.000 We dig and it's boring as hell.

00:18:39.000 You know, it's not Indiana Jones.

00:18:41.000 We're not running around banging hot chicks and flying on planes.

00:18:43.000 We're like, we got a spoon and we're doing this for eight hours.

00:18:47.000 So yeah, I actually found the last one on the last day and it was by far the worst one.

00:18:52.000 Like I had to argue that this is even, it should even count as one of these.

00:18:57.000 But yeah, no, it was a cool site.

00:18:59.000 So yeah, they were doing well, but we were doing better.

00:19:03.000 We came in and something happened where we replaced them.

00:19:06.000 This is an ad for better help.

00:19:08.000 The holidays come with a lot of traditions, gathering with family, cooking those once a year recipes and leaning into the little rituals that bring everyone together.

00:19:17.000 That's something I always look forward to.

00:19:19.000 But there's another tradition I think we should all start doing during the holidays, and that's taking some time for ourselves.

00:19:26.000 This season, you do so many things for the other people in your life.

00:19:29.000 You plan get-togethers around everyone's schedule.

00:19:32.000 You spend hours picking out the right gifts and cooking the right food, but you also deserve just as much attention.

00:19:38.000 Otherwise, you'll burn yourself out.

00:19:41.000 So do yourself a favor and take some me time.

00:19:44.000 Go on a hunting trip.

00:19:46.000 Have a quiet night with a book.

00:19:47.000 Maybe even schedule a session with a therapist.

00:19:50.000 Therapy is an extremely effective way to make sure you're focusing on what you need.

00:19:56.000 And BetterHelp can easily set you up.

00:19:58.000 They have access to a wide network of fully qualified therapists and they do a lot of the work for you.

00:20:05.000 Even if that first match isn't a good fit, you can easily switch to another therapist.

00:20:09.000 This December, start a new tradition by taking care of you.

00:20:14.000 Our listeners get 10% off at betterhelp.com/slash J-R-E. 0.99

00:20:19.000 That's better, H-E-L-P.com/slash J-R-E. 0.98

00:20:23.000 The point is, as time goes on, humans today are probably the most feeble version of humans that have ever existed.

00:20:31.000 Oh, for sure, yeah.

00:20:32.000 And we're the most feeble versions of people that have existed within the last century, right?

00:20:37.000 Like, if you go back to humans from the 1920s versus humans from the 2020s, people have way less testosterone now, way higher instances of miscarriages, way lower sperm count.

00:20:49.000 You know, there's a lot of factors that are at play right now that are changing what a human is.

00:20:56.000 And if you extrapolate, if you look at the future, you would naturally say, well, we're probably going to be very thin.

00:21:02.000 It seems like there's at least some sort of a push to eliminate gender.

00:21:08.000 Like gender seems like it's on the table, is whether or not it's even necessary.

00:21:12.000 There's all sorts of new technological innovations that are leading to the possibility, at least sometime in the future, of an artificial womb.

00:21:23.000 There's genetic engineering with CRISPR and a lot of other different technologies that are being explored that we might be able to engineer human beings and then even create a complete individual human being without a mother, without a father.

00:21:40.000 So if you thought about what that looks like in the future, look, one of our problems on this planet is we all have different ideologies, different religions, come from different parts of the world. 0.99

00:21:51.000 We look different.

00:21:51.000 And human beings, as tribal primates, have a tendency to other.

00:21:56.000 We other different tribes.

00:21:58.000 Those are not us.

00:21:58.000 We are us.

00:21:59.000 Those are the enemy.

00:22:00.000 We go out.

00:22:01.000 You bally round it.

00:22:02.000 But if everybody's exactly the same and we share one mind, you know, then a lot of our problems go away.

00:22:08.000 If we no longer have to compete for resources, we no longer have the desire to procreate and to acquire land and to be, you know, to have a territory, we eliminate a lot of our issues.

00:22:25.000 And that's what these things look like.

00:22:27.000 When you look at the archetypal, these iconic sort of shapes that have been on cave walls all the way up to close encounters with the third kind.

00:22:37.000 One thing they share is that they have no muscle, they have large heads, they have big eyes.

00:22:42.000 And they're childlike.

00:22:43.000 They're very patomorphic, as we say.

00:22:45.000 Yeah, you just tied together like a lot of really important points related to this theory: aspects of why they're always interested in our gametes.

00:22:56.000 Why they come back and put that little machine on a man to collect semen, why they're constantly taking eggs from females and planting fetuses, pulling them back out later. 0.95

00:23:06.000 Like they're clearly focused on reproduction, gamete extraction.

00:23:11.000 And one of the things that might be fueling that in the future, if these are future humans, let's just assume for a second, hypothetically, is that they might be having problems directly resulting from these trends toward self-domestication, these trends toward feminization, these trends toward reduced sperm counts, which is 60% across most populations of the world, the industrialized world, 50% across the entire world.

00:23:37.000 Yeah, problems with reproduction, in vitro fertilization, exogenesis chambers might help solve some of those problems, growing the fetus outside of the body.

00:23:47.000 So yeah, and like you said, you know, what do they look like?

00:23:51.000 They look like kind of a hybrid between males and females to some extent, but there's still an essence of gender.

00:24:00.000 Like if you talk to Whitley Streeber, you know, he's with this being, he says in communion that I had a sense that she was a woman.

00:24:06.000 I don't know why.

00:24:07.000 But I kind of sensed that.

00:24:08.000 So it's almost like the essence of the individual, the soul of the individual, still retains that sort of gender identity, even though our bodies are becoming more childlike, more gender indiscriminate.

00:24:20.000 I don't know.

00:24:21.000 But yeah, yet another one of those ways in which we might sort of grow together as a species.

00:24:26.000 Now, when you say they are extracting sperm, like how many of these stories do you take seriously?

00:24:37.000 There's a lot of these stories.

00:24:38.000 It's a great question, yeah.

00:24:39.000 You know, unfortunately, for any sort of spectacular public thing that's in the zeitgeist, like alien abduction, whether it's Whitley Streeber from Communion or the John Mack books, the guy from Harvard that wrote, what was it, Abduction?

00:24:58.000 Passport to the Cosmos and Abduction, yeah.

00:25:00.000 Yeah.

00:25:00.000 Two great books.

00:25:01.000 Great books.

00:25:02.000 But these are all books about encounters, close encounters of the third time with some sort of a being from another place.

00:25:10.000 Whatever it is, it's just not a human being.

00:25:12.000 It seems to be technologically at least superior to us.

00:25:16.000 It seems to be one thing they all seem to share is they seem to be able to communicate telekinetically or telepathically.

00:25:22.000 Yeah.

00:25:23.000 Yeah.

00:25:24.000 And I mean, they aren't human, but they're very human too.

00:25:29.000 So for instance, like that's one of the main reasons I started exploring this.

00:25:32.000 I was actually kind of put into this when I was eight or nine years old, sort of activated in a way and put on this path by a weird thing that happened to me.

00:25:42.000 What happened to you?

00:25:43.000 Well, so I talk about it in my first two books, Identified Flying Objects and the Extra-Tempestrial Model, where I learned about a close encounter that my dad had.

00:25:53.000 He was a veterinarian in Northeast Ohio where I grew up.

00:25:56.000 And he was out one night on a call with another guy.

00:26:00.000 So there's two people.

00:26:02.000 As far as Jalen Hynek's reliability scale has more reliability because there's multiple witnesses.

00:26:06.000 It's also strange on his scale because they crested the hill.

00:26:10.000 There's a bright light.

00:26:11.000 This is an Amish country. 1.00

00:26:12.000 There's no lights in Amish country. 0.98

00:26:14.000 And all of a sudden, this bright light darts toward them, hovers just above their truck, darts back to where it was, and then straight up into space, like at incredible speed.

00:26:24.000 So this happened before I was born, but I overheard him telling a story to some friends one night.

00:26:29.000 He got Whitley Streeber's book, Communion, as most people did in the 1980s, and as they should, because it's a great book.

00:26:35.000 And I walked into the living room.

00:26:37.000 The book is sitting on a shelf facing out.

00:26:40.000 And I remember, like, it was yesterday.

00:26:42.000 I sort of stopped, and there was like this light, like a white light.

00:26:46.000 And then I saw this image in my mind of like an early hominin chimpanzee-like creature, a modern human, and then that archetypal gray alien from the cover with this information.

00:26:57.000 What if they're related?

00:26:59.000 What if they are us from the future?

00:27:01.000 And obviously, I mean, that's why I became a biological anthropologist.

00:27:05.000 People are always like, so you saw this.

00:27:07.000 Yeah.

00:27:07.000 It was like a flash, like a light.

00:27:10.000 And, you know, it's weird looking back on it because I know a lot more about these experiences.

00:27:15.000 I've talked to people that have had these types of experiences.

00:27:18.000 What was the setting?

00:27:19.000 It was our living room.

00:27:20.000 So it was like the, you come in the front door and just to the left, there's this living room, built-in bookshelf, Whitley's books right there.

00:27:27.000 I just turned the corner, saw it, and then like, just kind of, it just came.

00:27:32.000 Like, I didn't know shit about evolutionary biology.

00:27:35.000 So you saw it, like, you saw it how?

00:27:36.000 In my mind, just this white light.

00:27:38.000 Just an image.

00:27:39.000 And that image of the three faces.

00:27:42.000 And then the question, could they be us from the future?

00:27:46.000 And a lot of people are like, how'd you get into UFOs?

00:27:48.000 Like, you're a biological anthropologist.

00:27:50.000 It's the opposite.

00:27:51.000 I got into biological anthropology to research this question of whether they could be us from the future.

00:27:56.000 Huh.

00:27:58.000 So you felt like at that moment it wasn't just like a weird thought or a dream.

00:28:06.000 It felt like a message.

00:28:07.000 Like, what did it feel like?

00:28:08.000 Yeah.

00:28:09.000 Yeah.

00:28:10.000 It was some, it was a tasking.

00:28:12.000 You know, I think Rupert Sheldrake said it, that people don't have ideas.

00:28:16.000 Ideas have people.

00:28:18.000 I think that was like the, hey, go do this thing.

00:28:22.000 And I did.

00:28:23.000 That's why we're here now talking about it.

00:28:27.000 And obviously, you know, you've got to be careful about like selection bias and confirmation bias.

00:28:31.000 Like I didn't go into this.

00:28:33.000 I didn't go into grad school.

00:28:34.000 I also didn't tell anybody in grad school I was there because they would have kicked me out.

00:28:38.000 But I went into it with an open mind, but I was there to study these things because of that event when I was eight years old.

00:28:47.000 Wow.

00:28:48.000 Yeah, it is a problem, the confirmation bias.

00:28:52.000 It is a problem with wanting it to be real.

00:28:55.000 And I struggle with that because I desperately want it to be real.

00:29:00.000 And so every time I talk to someone, you know, I've talked to a bunch of people that are, you know, air quote whistleblowers.

00:29:07.000 And some of them, I think, for sure have been sent in here to distribute disinformation.

00:29:12.000 Yeah, no doubt.

00:29:13.000 For sure, because it's a great place to do it.

00:29:15.000 Yeah.

00:29:15.000 I'll listen to you.

00:29:17.000 I'll entertain almost anything.

00:29:18.000 Which is great.

00:29:19.000 We need that.

00:29:19.000 Yeah.

00:29:20.000 But yeah, I mean, obviously there's people that are going to take advantage of it.

00:29:23.000 But I think it's also important for me to say, I'm not convinced.

00:29:27.000 I don't know how much of this is horseshit, but it's not zero.

00:29:31.000 No.

00:29:31.000 And that was your question is how do I differentiate among these different cases?

00:29:38.000 I do draw from Heynek's in his book, The UFO Experience, he lists out how we all should approach this based on the reliability scale and the strangeness scale.

00:29:50.000 Jacques Valley also drew from that, helped him develop it as part of the Invisible College and all of his work.

00:29:56.000 But regardless of my own personal discernment, because my second book, The Extra Tempestrio Model, is about 30 case studies, 15 main case studies, but then I pull in other ones.

00:30:08.000 And it explores the different theories.

00:30:10.000 Obviously, the main one being this extra tempestrial idea, this future, which, by the way, I saw the word of the day today was anachronistic.

00:30:18.000 And I was like, man, that would have been a way better word than extra tempestrio, which everybody struggles with.

00:30:23.000 I could have called them anacronauts.

00:30:25.000 Doesn't that sound cool?

00:30:26.000 That does sound cool.

00:30:27.000 Anacronauts.

00:30:28.000 Ooh, that sounds really cool.

00:30:29.000 I know.

00:30:29.000 What the hell was I thinking, man?

00:30:31.000 Anyway, but so one of the most commonly reported things across all cases, regardless of whether you think it's bullshit or you think this definitely happened, is they really want our sperm.

00:30:43.000 They really need or want our reproductive material, our gametes. 0.96

00:30:48.000 And it's funny because when I wrote my first book in 20, I started in 2012, published it in 2019, right at the end, I did an interview, and somebody's like, have you heard of Jim Penniston?

00:30:58.000 I'm like, no, which is kind of a failing on my behalf.

00:31:01.000 I'll admit that one.

00:31:02.000 It turns out, so it was the Rendlesham Forrest incident.

00:31:06.000 He touched this craft.

00:31:07.000 He got this binary code.

00:31:09.000 And he, when deciphering the binary code, they legitimately specifically said, we are you from the future.

00:31:17.000 We're having problems with reproduction.

00:31:18.000 He underwent hypnotic regression.

00:31:20.000 We're having problems with reproduction and we need this genetic material to help ourselves.

00:31:25.000 A lot of people are like, well, why are they coming back and doing stuff to us?

00:31:29.000 I think they're coming back and getting stuff from us because of problems they're having, largely related to what you were talking about earlier with the reduced sperm counts, the problems with female infertility.

00:31:40.000 What if we do try to create the perfect human specimen or we try to cure these genetic diseases through genetic manipulation, CRISPR, and we screw something up?

00:31:50.000 We might have to come back.

00:31:51.000 We can't go to another planet.

00:31:52.000 There aren't people on these planets.

00:31:54.000 We can't go and sample gametes from these other places.

00:31:56.000 We might have to go into our past to get those wild-type, unmanipulated gametes in order to fix these problems.

00:32:06.000 God, that's a crazy level of technological sophistication, the ability to venture back in time and somehow or another not fuck up the timeline that's leading to, I mean, this is the problem that's always been theorized about time travel.

00:32:22.000 Anything that you do, if you went back in time, any interactions, you would completely change how the future would play out.

00:32:31.000 In the many worlds interpretation.

00:32:33.000 So that idea is unfortunately very pervasive and mostly because of Back to the Future, which I think ruined the brains of most people.

00:32:42.000 Mine do.

00:32:43.000 Certainly in my generation.

00:32:47.000 But what most physicists don't agree on many things, but most agree that we live in what's called a block universe, landscape time, block time, where if you imagine all moments from the very beginning of the Big Bang to the end of the universe, where all matter appears into like a black hole or contracts or whatever it does, all moments are already there.

00:33:10.000 They exist as this massive four-dimensional block of all moments, all whirlmons, everything.

00:33:16.000 So you go back into the past as you perceive it.

00:33:19.000 You can do whatever you want.

00:33:20.000 You can walk around, step on butterflies, slap people on the face, kick over dinosaurs or whatever.

00:33:27.000 I don't think we can go back that far, but you could do anything you want, and it doesn't change anything because you're going back in the block universe and doing those things you were always already going to do.

00:33:37.000 And when you get home, everything's the same because that was already their past.

00:33:41.000 To everybody that stayed behind, that was already their past.

00:33:44.000 It was only the future for you to go back and do those things that you were already going to do.

00:33:48.000 And then you just went and did them, get home, everything's the same because you were always going to do those things in the first place.

00:33:54.000 That's bizarre.

00:33:55.000 That's hard to swallow.

00:33:56.000 If that is the actual model of the universe, and again, I can only work in writing these books, I can only work from what we know now.

00:34:03.000 Clearly, there's a lot of things we don't know.

00:34:05.000 I'm not claiming to know anything beyond what we can know right now.

00:34:09.000 But physicists, despite not knowing what time is, they know it's an emergent phenomenon.

00:34:14.000 There's something more fundamental that time comes from.

00:34:17.000 But they do agree on this block universe model.

00:34:20.000 And in that case, there is no paradox.

00:34:22.000 How do they all agree on that?

00:34:23.000 Like, wouldn't you have to test that and come up with some sort of a hypothesis and then try to prove it or disprove it?

00:34:30.000 Right.

00:34:30.000 I shouldn't say they all agree because there is the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics where if you went back in that situation, it would be change.

00:34:39.000 You would be changing the timeline.

00:34:40.000 Would it be changing your timeline or would it be changing a different timeline is the question.

00:34:45.000 And how would you know?

00:34:47.000 There's more paradoxes with changing things than not changing things.

00:34:50.000 Why do you confidently state that you don't think that they can go back to the dinosaur age?

00:34:56.000 Partly because three different reasons.

00:35:01.000 One, I think they need tremendously high speed in order to be able to go back into the past.

00:35:08.000 So basically, again, working from all I can work from in this time with the limited primitive primate knowledge that I have in the year 2012 to 2025, I basically just started with Einstein's theory of relativity, which he published in 1905 on the electrodynamics of moving bodies.

00:35:29.000 And then in 1915, he published his paper on general relativity.

00:35:32.000 From that point on, almost instantly, there were solutions to his field equations that showed with the right parameters of a massively highly energetic rotating ring or sphere or disk that you could create closed time-like curves, that you could actually orient light cones back toward the past so you can physically go into the past.

00:35:53.000 We saw this with Lens and Thuring in like 1917 and 18.

00:35:57.000 Kurt Godell.

00:35:58.000 Gödel universe was not long after, I think the 20s, maybe.

00:36:02.000 And then importantly, in the 1970s, you had Frank Tipler who showed mathematically that you can shrink that down to a disk.

00:36:10.000 He actually called it a disk.

00:36:12.000 And it's one of the reasons I think that these are time machines is because it has all of the parameters described by Frank Tipler.

00:36:18.000 He wasn't talking about UFOs, but they seemingly have the ability to jump in and out of time.

00:36:23.000 They appear and disappear.

00:36:25.000 And I'm talking too much, so I'll wrap this up in a second.

00:36:28.000 You're definitely not talking too much.

00:36:29.000 Well, I mean, we're here to talk, but I have an internal trigger where I'm like, shut up, master.

00:36:34.000 You're talking too much.

00:36:35.000 Don't listen to that trigger.

00:36:36.000 Let it roll.

00:36:37.000 So anyway, you know, if you look at the history of how we understand backward time travel, what I think they're doing is that I think they're combining general relativity and special relativity.

00:36:48.000 So I think they're orienting the light cones toward the past by rotating these things really, really fast.

00:36:54.000 You hear that all the time.

00:36:54.000 They power up, they're spinning, or at least there's some sort of flywheel on the outside that's spinning.

00:37:00.000 I think that's what's allowing them to move toward the past, and then they take off.

00:37:05.000 So it's that high speed that I think allows them to go further into the past.

00:37:08.000 So they're using, you're aware of the twins paradox, I'm sure.

00:37:13.000 Time delation, where you have two twins, they're the same age, and then one goes into a spaceship, they move at tremendously high speed, they come back, and they're much younger than their twin because time moved faster back on Earth.

00:37:24.000 I think they're using that high-speed motion while light cones are oriented toward the past in order to travel deeper into the past through that process of time dilation.

00:37:35.000 There are limits to how fast we can go.

00:37:38.000 Einstein was very adamant about this because there's an increase in inertial forces the faster you go relative to the speed of light.

00:37:46.000 That's why he thought we could never go.

00:37:48.000 That's why he thought that anything with mass could never go faster than the speed of light.

00:37:54.000 Light can do it because it's a wave or a particle or both.

00:37:58.000 So I think there's a limit to how fast we can go.

00:38:01.000 The other reason is because Jim Penniston in this hypnotic regression said that.

00:38:06.000 He's like, we can only go 40 to 60,000 years into the past or we might not get back.

00:38:11.000 You also have, and this is a more speculative one, so take it for what it's worth.

00:38:17.000 You also have the Dan Burrish testimony of this J-rod, this allegedly captured alien, who said, we're from the future. 0.98

00:38:25.000 We are you from the future, and we're from about 55 to 60,000 years in your future.

00:38:31.000 So those three things together are why I don't think we could go back 65 million years to hunt dinosaurs, which actually would be kind of fun.

00:38:39.000 When you're talking about going the speed of light, you're talking about not traditional propulsion, but some form of propulsion that allows you to go at insane speeds.

00:38:49.000 Yeah, electromagnetic is what it seems to be.

00:38:52.000 And importantly, the electromagnetic force is 10 to the 40 times more powerful than gravity.

00:38:59.000 So not only do I think that's what they use to fly, I think that's what they use to manipulate space-time.

00:39:04.000 Actually, and Dan Burrish is, not Dan Burrish, Dan Farah, I think you just had him on too, the Age of Disclosure.

00:39:10.000 Yes.

00:39:11.000 There's this really cool thing at the end where Hal Putoff and I think Eric Davis as well, we're talking about this space-time bubble, right?

00:39:20.000 A really weird thing happened.

00:39:22.000 We can get to that in a second.

00:39:23.000 But I don't want to jump around too much because I'll lose people and myself probably.

00:39:28.000 But this space-time bubble that they form around the craft, I think, is also indicative of the fact that they're manipulating space-time, that they're traveling in and out of time.

00:39:38.000 They use it to hide in plain sight.

00:39:40.000 They manipulate the rate at which they move relative to us in their frame of reference.

00:39:45.000 And they're moving fast all around us.

00:39:48.000 And they've slowed time down outside of that bubble.

00:39:50.000 So everything is really, really slow to them.

00:39:53.000 And they can easily evade our bullets and our missiles.

00:39:55.000 But we don't see them because we don't have that frame rate of perception.

00:39:59.000 And if you slow videos down, I'm sure you've seen these all the time, where there's like a, and then you slow it down and you can see this saucer-shaped craft moving slowly across the sky once you slow down the frame rate.

00:40:11.000 But a really funny thing happened because I've never actually talked about this with anyone before.

00:40:18.000 I owe a lot of the fact that anybody even knows who I am to Hal Putoff.

00:40:24.000 He, when I first started talking about this publicly in 2018, and then I published my book in 2019, Identified Flying Objects, he, I guess, reached out to the head of MUFON at the time, who was putting together the 50th anniversary MUFON event, and was like, hey, you should have this Mike Masters guy come talk.

00:40:45.000 And I found that out from the head of MUFON.

00:40:48.000 He's like, hey, just so you know, Hal Putoff, of all people, recommended I contact you.

00:40:52.000 I had no idea who that is.

00:40:53.000 So I get on the internet and I Google How Putoff.

00:40:57.000 He also put Jesse Michaels, mutual friend, in touch with me after, I think he did an interview with him and Weinstein.

00:41:04.000 I forget his name.

00:41:06.000 Eric?

00:41:06.000 Yeah.

00:41:07.000 So he did an interview with those two.

00:41:10.000 I guess Hal was like, hey, you should reach out to Mike Masters.

00:41:12.000 And he did.

00:41:12.000 And we talked and we've done stuff together.

00:41:15.000 But what was cool is that at the end of that Age of Disclosure film, when he's talking about the space-time bubble, I thought back to after my first book came out, and I was contacted by someone who claimed to be an ex-intelligence person who explained that exact same thing to me back in 2019, that these things aren't doing 10,000 G maneuvers that would crush anything inside to them.

00:41:41.000 In their frame of reference, what they feel is completely different than what we see.

00:41:46.000 Because in that space-time bubble, they can be moving at 50,000 miles an hour, do a right-hand turn, and it would splatter anything inside because of the G-forces.

00:41:56.000 That's what we see on the outside.

00:41:57.000 But in that space-time bubble, they probably feel one, two G's at the most.

00:42:02.000 So I started thinking, man, was that Hal?

00:42:06.000 Did Hal reach out to me with like a different email address and say, hey, just so you know, this is how these things are happening.

00:42:13.000 This is how they're able to do it.

00:42:15.000 And I was a dumbass.

00:42:16.000 I still am a dumbass.

00:42:16.000 But I was an extra big dumbass back then.

00:42:19.000 And I was like, oh, cool.

00:42:20.000 Thanks, man.

00:42:20.000 You know, like a story went viral about my books, and Fox News picked it up and space.com.

00:42:26.000 And so I was going through a bunch of emails.

00:42:29.000 They recognized I wasn't getting what they were saying.

00:42:32.000 I was not picking up what they were putting down.

00:42:34.000 And they were like, no, this is important.

00:42:36.000 Said it again, and then it clicked.

00:42:38.000 I was like, oh, yeah, that makes perfect sense.

00:42:42.000 They're manipulating the rate at which time passes in this bubble around the craft.

00:42:46.000 And we see something completely different.

00:42:48.000 So when we're seeing this, we are imagining what we can do.

00:42:54.000 And we're sort of saying, well, what would be an advanced version of what we can do?

00:42:58.000 And what this technology is, is something that's levels of magnitude beyond even our theoretical, like any sort of idea that we have currently about, you know, potential future timelines of technology.

00:43:14.000 Yeah.

00:43:15.000 There's no one talking about gravity bubbles that allow you to instantaneously traverse immense gaps in the universe.

00:43:24.000 Well, they might be talking about it behind closed doors at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.

00:43:28.000 Right.

00:43:28.000 And have been for 70 years.

00:43:30.000 Yeah, that's because they're not.

00:43:32.000 That's the real problem with disclosure.

00:43:33.000 Like, how much progress could we have made if they had opened up all this stuff?

00:43:39.000 And you've got to imagine if you were an intelligent life form from another planet.

00:43:43.000 You know, Diana Posulka talked about her and Gary Nolan talked about how they refer to some of these things as donations.

00:43:52.000 They don't think of them as crashed vehicles because some of them are not crashed.

00:43:56.000 They're completely intact.

00:43:58.000 I think David Grush said that too, didn't he?

00:44:00.000 i believe he did yeah and even you know lazar when when he was talking about it he you know he had a sports model Wasn't that fully intact, too?

00:44:09.000 Fully intact.

00:44:10.000 Yeah, fully intact and operational, and apparently they flew it around.

00:44:13.000 No kidding.

00:44:13.000 Yeah.

00:44:14.000 That'd be fun.

00:44:14.000 Well, that was one of the reasons, you know, the whole story how he got caught.

00:44:18.000 It's a really crazy story.

00:44:20.000 So he used to work at Los Alamos.

00:44:22.000 He was a propulsions expert.

00:44:23.000 Guy put a jet engine on the back of a Honda.

00:44:26.000 He was a real freak.

00:44:27.000 You know, he made a hydrogen Corvette in like the 1990s.

00:44:30.000 He was a nutty dude.

00:44:31.000 Clearly an engineer.

00:44:32.000 Yes.

00:44:32.000 That part checks out.

00:44:33.000 So he gets this job on Area S4 and goes there.

00:44:40.000 And it's all documented in Jeremy Corbel's excellent movie, Bob Lazar, Area 51 and Flying Saucers.

00:44:47.000 So he goes there and sees this thing, and it's got an American flag sticker on it.

00:44:52.000 And, you know, they basically say, tell us how it works.

00:44:55.000 And he's like, oh, this is ours because he sees it has a sticker on it.

00:44:59.000 And then he realizes this is made out of some completely unknown alloy.

00:45:03.000 There's no seams in it.

00:45:04.000 It seems to be 3D printed.

00:45:06.000 There's no controls inside of it.

00:45:08.000 It's designed for something that's three feet tall.

00:45:10.000 It's all very fucking weird.

00:45:13.000 So he's working on this thing, not making much headway at all.

00:45:17.000 They understood that there was an element, Element 115, that was not even on the periodic table.

00:45:23.000 Eventually found to actually be a thing by the Large Hadron Collider.

00:45:30.000 But even then, they only measured it for a millisecond, right?

00:45:34.000 So then he's saying that they have this stable version of this element, and you bombard it with radiation, creates this sort of gravity drive.

00:45:43.000 He's working on this thing, and it's all top secret, so he cannot tell his wife.

00:45:47.000 So they're calling him up at 10 o'clock, like, hey, get to the airplane, the airport.

00:45:52.000 We need you.

00:45:53.000 And so he would have to fly out at random times, fly out to S4, and his wife was like, this motherfucker's having an affair. 1.00

00:46:01.000 Well, I'm going to have an affair, too.

00:46:02.000 So she starts fucking her flight attendant or a flight instructor. 1.00

00:46:06.000 I think that's what it was.

00:46:08.000 When you have that kind of clearance, they are monitoring everything.

00:46:11.000 They're monitoring all your phone calls.

00:46:14.000 So they've realized that his wife is having an affair, and they think that he will be emotionally unstable, and it's too dangerous to have him working on this insanely top-secret information if he's not stable.

00:46:25.000 So they tell him, you know, we're going to at least temporarily relieve you of your duties.

00:46:31.000 So he's freaked out and he tells his friends, like, hey, this is what they're doing there.

00:46:37.000 They have these things, and they fly them every Wednesday.

00:46:40.000 I'm going to take you guys.

00:46:41.000 There's an area we can go watch.

00:46:43.000 So he takes his friends out there on two separate occasions, I believe.

00:46:47.000 They get caught.

00:46:48.000 They get caught, gets arrested.

00:46:50.000 They release him, and he realizes, like, I'm kind of fucked.

00:46:53.000 They might kill me.

00:46:54.000 I'm going to have to go public with this.

00:46:56.000 Contacts George Knapp.

00:46:57.000 George Knapp.

00:46:57.000 I did see that.

00:46:58.000 Then the whole thing is history.

00:46:59.000 Yeah.

00:47:00.000 Yeah.

00:47:01.000 No, that's wild, man.

00:47:02.000 And I think, and it's still happening.

00:47:05.000 You know, there's still these whistleblowers.

00:47:07.000 He says they used to fly them, and you could go watch them fly these things.

00:47:11.000 And they were moving in these really weird ways across the sky that you cannot do with conventional aircraft, that they only sort of understood how to like pick it up and put it down.

00:47:20.000 They didn't understand how to really as a kid, I've been obviously been into this for a long time.

00:47:27.000 I remember as a kid seeing videos of people going out and then they eventually closed it down.

00:47:32.000 You couldn't get to that spot.

00:47:33.000 But there was like a headache.

00:47:34.000 That was during the Obama administration.

00:47:35.000 During the Obama administration, they actually had to admit that Area 51 was real.

00:47:39.000 Because before that, no one even knew it was real.

00:47:41.000 I mean, that was always just a joke, like Area 51.

00:47:44.000 It was like for fun.

00:47:45.000 But then they said, no, it is real.

00:47:47.000 And we need to expand the forbidden boundary.

00:47:50.000 Yeah.

00:47:50.000 And isn't that when people are going to like bum rush it too?

00:47:54.000 Is that when that happened?

00:47:54.000 That was during COVID.

00:47:55.000 Okay.

00:47:56.000 During COVID, there was a bunch of dorks that were like, We're going to crash Area 51.

00:48:00.000 That's a good way to die.

00:48:01.000 They'll fucking kill you.

00:48:02.000 Hey, natural selection.

00:48:03.000 Yeah, they're working on a lot of stuff out there.

00:48:05.000 And some of it is weapons.

00:48:07.000 Right.

00:48:07.000 They can't have you internet dorks from Reddit just running out into Area 51.

00:48:13.000 Yeah, I think they eventually realized that because I don't think they went out there, but that could have been bad.

00:48:17.000 I think it was all bullshit.

00:48:18.000 They weren't going to do it out there.

00:48:21.000 Engagement farming.

00:48:23.000 Yeah, man, there's a lot of crazy shit that's been going on.

00:48:26.000 It's been going on for a while.

00:48:29.000 Jamie and I were talking beforehand about the stovepiping, too, and all the stovepiping?

00:48:33.000 Yeah, the different ways that they compartmentalize what they're doing.

00:48:36.000 And they talked about it in Age of Disclosure, too.

00:48:38.000 That's a big problem because certain people are working on these parts of the craft to reverse engineer them to understand them, but they don't have the whole picture.

00:48:47.000 Lazar was talking about that from the 1980s.

00:48:50.000 In 1989, he said the people that are working on metallurgy were not in contact with the people that are working on propulsion.

00:48:57.000 And he's like, science cannot operate like that.

00:48:59.000 Yeah.

00:49:00.000 No, it can't because you need to know what's going on beyond just this little part that you're working on.

00:49:05.000 And if you have a bunch of people that are sharing information, you get a much more comprehensive understanding of what this thing is.

00:49:10.000 Yeah, we all benefit from communication.

00:49:12.000 Right, because there could be something involved in the actual structure of it that lends to its ability to do something.

00:49:19.000 It might not be simply just structure, it might be structure with some sort of an ability.

00:49:23.000 Yeah, you can't see the forest through the trees in these situations.

00:49:26.000 And it's unfortunate.

00:49:28.000 And the argument they made in this docko is that we're putting ourselves at a disadvantage because other countries have probably retrieved these things too.

00:49:37.000 And they might be working on it, yes, in secrecy.

00:49:39.000 But if people are working together and not stovepiping this thing ad infinitum, then they might be able to actually make more progress faster than us.

00:49:48.000 So part of the disclosure push is to be like, yeah, these things are real.

00:49:51.000 We have them.

00:49:52.000 Let's get our best scientists together to work on this holistically instead of compartmentalizing it.

00:49:57.000 Well, just imagine if they had done that from 1947, where we would be.

00:50:00.000 Exactly.

00:50:01.000 If that's real.

00:50:02.000 If Roswell was real, if all the crash was real, Philip Drake Corso is correct, and all these people are telling the truth.

00:50:07.000 I know.

00:50:08.000 And we still have to preface these things with if it's real, if it's real.

00:50:12.000 And yeah, I do the same thing.

00:50:14.000 I mean, coming from academia, when I wrote my first book, I had to be like, if this is real.

00:50:19.000 But it's hard.

00:50:20.000 It's this paradox of sorts because how do you write to explain something that isn't real?

00:50:27.000 Right.

00:50:27.000 What's the point of even doing that?

00:50:29.000 Yeah.

00:50:30.000 So I think we have to assume.

00:50:32.000 I'm actually teaching a class at Montana Tech this spring called UFOs, History, and Science.

00:50:38.000 Ooh, I would take that if I was in school.

00:50:39.000 I think it's going to be a lot of fun.

00:50:41.000 I know.

00:50:41.000 I'm pretty stoked about it.

00:50:42.000 And I had these artists design a poster in Norway and the UK and just this crazy, like, I was like, how conservative should I be with this?

00:50:50.000 Like, just a UFO.

00:50:51.000 And I gave him total artistic freedom.

00:50:53.000 And there's like an alien holding the earth and this UFO is swinging around.

00:50:57.000 I'm like, all right, I guess that's what I'm doing.

00:50:59.000 Plastered it all over campus to recruit people to take the class.

00:51:02.000 But like, I'm going in on day one.

00:51:05.000 We're not going to fuck around with like, are these things real?

00:51:08.000 We're not going to waste time on that.

00:51:10.000 We're going to jump in.

00:51:11.000 These are real.

00:51:12.000 Here's what we're doing.

00:51:13.000 This is what we know.

00:51:14.000 This is what we don't know.

00:51:15.000 Explore the theories.

00:51:16.000 Explore the history.

00:51:17.000 Explore the prehistory.

00:51:19.000 Because it's a waste of time.

00:51:21.000 Like, these things are real.

00:51:22.000 You think they're real?

00:51:24.000 What makes you convinced?

00:51:27.000 I have read enough accounts in researching this.

00:51:32.000 And from people that I know, I mean, starting from when I was a kid, hearing my biological father's account, you know, the way he told it.

00:51:41.000 And then I interviewed him again in college to try to get more information because I was just over hearing from the stairs and I was supposed to be in bed.

00:51:48.000 He saw what he saw.

00:51:49.000 And then eventually, I saw some UFOs.

00:51:52.000 What did you see?

00:51:53.000 I was kind of pissed, actually, because I started talking about this in 2018.

00:51:56.000 And people were always like, you ever seen a UFO?

00:51:57.000 No, never seen a UFO.

00:51:59.000 I'd like to.

00:52:00.000 And then finally, in 2022, it might have been late 2021.

00:52:05.000 I don't remember exactly when.

00:52:06.000 It was kind of warm-ish.

00:52:07.000 So it was probably 2021.

00:52:09.000 But everybody's in bed at my house.

00:52:12.000 I live in a canyon.

00:52:13.000 And I was having a whiskey.

00:52:15.000 And I was like, I just walked up the canyon wall for some reason, like the hill behind my house.

00:52:21.000 I don't really know why.

00:52:22.000 I turned around and I could see these five super bright lights over what's known as the East Ridge in Butte, Montana.

00:52:29.000 They're just like sitting there right over the East Ridge.

00:52:31.000 I was like, well, that's not normal.

00:52:33.000 Those aren't usually there.

00:52:34.000 And they weren't stars.

00:52:35.000 You know, they're way too big, way too close.

00:52:37.000 I would say they were probably within eight to five to eight miles.

00:52:41.000 You know, they were in the distance, but they were like there.

00:52:45.000 And then I just kind of looked at them for a second.

00:52:48.000 I'm like, oh, that's weird.

00:52:49.000 And then one by one, from right to left, they just went shot off toward the southeast at like crazy speed.

00:52:56.000 You know, like the kind of like in Star Wars or Star Trek, and they hit Hyperdrive and there's that little light trail.

00:53:04.000 Like just one by one until they were all gone.

00:53:09.000 I have no conventional explanation for that.

00:53:12.000 Wow.

00:53:13.000 But I've never been one of those people that's like, I need to see it to believe it.

00:53:17.000 Right.

00:53:17.000 Because I believe the people who say the same thing over and over.

00:53:21.000 There's patterns that we can extract from people's testaments who have had these close encounters.

00:53:26.000 And that's one unfortunate thing that's happening right now is we're talking about the pilots, talking about police.

00:53:31.000 But people have been seeing these forever, but they did such a good job manufacturing the stigma around it with Project Sign, Project Grudge, Project Blue Book to discount these people, to make them seem insane.

00:53:43.000 That is one of the main points of evidence that I would point to that there is something.

00:53:48.000 When people think there isn't something, I'm just like, you should really pay attention to what they were trying to do during Project Blue Book.

00:53:53.000 Yeah.

00:53:54.000 Because one of the, I have a buddy of mine, my friend Steve Graham.

00:53:57.000 Shout out to Steve.

00:53:59.000 When he was a boy, he was living in New York, upstate New York, and he filmed this red orb that was flying across the sky.

00:54:09.000 And he took some photographs of it.

00:54:11.000 And they called someone, some officials somewhere.

00:54:16.000 I don't remember.

00:54:17.000 He was very young.

00:54:18.000 And they said, we are going to analyze the photos and then we'll bring them back to you.

00:54:23.000 And they never returned the photographs.

00:54:26.000 When he called, he said, no agents, there's no record of any agents coming to visit you.

00:54:30.000 We don't know what to tell you.

00:54:32.000 So they just took his photos and that was it.

00:54:34.000 But he said, whatever it was, you know, he was young.

00:54:37.000 I believe he was 10 or 11.

00:54:38.000 And he said, whatever it was was really weird.

00:54:42.000 He goes, it was this red orb that was flying through the sky.

00:54:47.000 It was a spacecraft.

00:54:48.000 It wasn't a sun.

00:54:49.000 It wasn't a meteor.

00:54:50.000 It looked like it was moving purposely and under control.

00:54:54.000 And it was there long enough for him to take a Polaroid of it.

00:55:00.000 Yeah.

00:55:01.000 And they just completely erased any memory of it or any evidence of it.

00:55:09.000 When he called, like I said, they said no agents visited you, whatever the agents' name were, there was no agents by that name.

00:55:16.000 That's kind of the status quo.

00:55:18.000 Did they try to make you look like a fool?

00:55:20.000 Absolutely.

00:55:20.000 And that was intentional.

00:55:22.000 Like the stated mission of Project Grudge was to debunk these things, come up with conventional explanations, and make people seem like idiots.

00:55:29.000 Right.

00:55:30.000 It wasn't to investigate.

00:55:32.000 No, not at all.

00:55:33.000 The purpose wasn't, let's get to the bottom of this, find out, is this Russia?

00:55:37.000 Is Russia doing this?

00:55:38.000 That was not the purpose.

00:55:39.000 The purpose was make these people look like fools.

00:55:41.000 You only do that if you know something that other people don't.

00:55:44.000 Yeah.

00:55:45.000 This episode is brought to you by Monster Ultra.

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00:56:28.000 And it worked.

00:56:29.000 They did a damn good job at it because we still feel like fools talking about this.

00:56:33.000 Oh, yeah.

00:56:33.000 And we still have to check ourselves and be like, is this real?

00:56:35.000 If this is real, you know?

00:56:36.000 Right.

00:56:37.000 But I think that shame is starting to diminish.

00:56:40.000 I think the stigma is starting to go away.

00:56:42.000 Well, I think the New York Times article from 2017.

00:56:45.000 Absolutely.

00:56:46.000 That was a game changer.

00:56:47.000 That was a big one.

00:56:48.000 Yeah.

00:56:48.000 And then from then on, it's been this trickle.

00:56:51.000 These guys like Ryan Graves and guys like David Favor.

00:56:56.000 These David Favor's guys that was, you know, he was in a fighter jet, saw this thing move from 50,000 feet above sea level to sea level in less than a second.

00:57:09.000 Yeah.

00:57:10.000 And they saw this thing.

00:57:12.000 There was something under the water below it.

00:57:14.000 It's like whatever he saw.

00:57:16.000 And if you ever talked to him, have you ever talked to him?

00:57:19.000 I've talked to Alex Dietrich, who was with him during that.

00:57:23.000 He's a very reliable guy and very intelligent, by the book, very disciplined.

00:57:30.000 No, he was like a top gun pilot.

00:57:32.000 He was leading the whole group, right?

00:57:35.000 Yeah, he's a commander.

00:57:37.000 And when he describes it, it sounds very real.

00:57:41.000 Whatever he's talking about, he experienced.

00:57:44.000 I believe that.

00:57:44.000 And there's also video of it.

00:57:46.000 There's video of it flying.

00:57:48.000 They have the radar data.

00:57:49.000 Radar data.

00:57:50.000 They know that it went to their designated meetup point.

00:57:53.000 The cap point.

00:57:54.000 Yeah.

00:57:54.000 Which is really weird.

00:57:55.000 It is.

00:57:55.000 And it indicates they knew the future.

00:57:58.000 Or they were part of our military.

00:58:02.000 Right.

00:58:03.000 I kind of wonder if the Tic Tac, because it is somewhat anomalous in the context of a lot of things in the UFO lore as far as spinning discs or big triangular craft.

00:58:13.000 This one kind of seems like one of ours.

00:58:15.000 Well, it is odd that these things happen where there's a lot of military training exercises.

00:58:20.000 Like this one was off the coast of San Diego.

00:58:23.000 It was off the Nimitz, you know.

00:58:25.000 So they had the Nimitz, which was out there.

00:58:28.000 Obviously, you got a lot of military in San Diego.

00:58:30.000 And the Roosevelt, too, I think is where they were capturing the radar.

00:58:33.000 And the ones that Ryan Grave experienced were all East Coast.

00:58:37.000 Again, it's all near military bases.

00:58:40.000 It's all where they do military training exercises.

00:58:44.000 Yeah, and why not figure out what you can do with people that you train with already anyway?

00:58:49.000 Right.

00:58:50.000 And why not see what is detectable and what's not?

00:58:54.000 You know, Ryan Graves talked about how in 2014 they upgraded all the sensors and the jets, and then all of a sudden they started picking these things up all over the place.

00:59:02.000 He said they were encountering them virtually every time they went out, which is so weird.

00:59:06.000 Imagine you're encountering, was it a circle inside of a sphere or a sphere inside of a space?

00:59:13.000 I think it was a circle and a sphere.

00:59:17.000 Yeah, whatever it was.

00:59:18.000 Yeah.

00:59:18.000 Which one was it?

00:59:20.000 Was it a circle and a sphere?

00:59:21.000 It was.

00:59:21.000 I just saw a picture on Twitter recently.

00:59:23.000 It was a little circle and then a cube or something.

00:59:26.000 Very fucking weird, whatever that is.

00:59:28.000 And it is.

00:59:28.000 It's able to hover motionless in like 200 knots of wind.

00:59:31.000 Yeah, and it would make sense if we are reverse engineering these.

00:59:34.000 They're going to look pretty primitive.

00:59:36.000 It's basically a big propane tank that they're flying around.

00:59:39.000 They probably started simple.

00:59:40.000 It's probably unmanned, but they're testing that capability to manipulate the space-time to shoot off.

00:59:46.000 You know, because it dropped 80,000 feet.

00:59:48.000 That's what it supposedly looks like.

00:59:50.000 A cube in a space.

00:59:50.000 Oh, hello.

00:59:52.000 Yeah, I can remember that.

00:59:53.000 Apparently, my dyslexia extends to images, too.

00:59:56.000 Explained using UFO patents.

00:59:58.000 Click on that.

01:00:01.000 Explained.

01:00:02.000 A recent article about the Hill has highlighted the reports of a cube and a sphere UAP military pilots have been seeing as reported by Graves, where he once again highlights how often our pilots are seeing these things and why he doesn't believe they are conventional drones or balloons.

01:00:15.000 And so this is obviously some sort of a computer-generated rendition.

01:00:20.000 Ah, the fucking pop-up.

01:00:22.000 Yeah.

01:00:23.000 For sure.

01:00:25.000 I mean, I don't know.

01:00:26.000 They didn't get a picture of it, but.

01:00:28.000 Here's the patents.

01:00:29.000 Scroll up a little bit.

01:00:30.000 So a month ago, I did a deep dive in a post about UFO patents, how magneto-hydrodynamic propulsion systems could explain some of the observations, includes an expired patent for the 1960s and a few newer patents describing not only the propulsion, but how the plasma field can make the craft invisible to radar.

01:00:48.000 Huh.

01:00:50.000 Huh.

01:00:51.000 Yeah.

01:00:53.000 I mean, again, it makes sense.

01:00:54.000 Like, if we have been reverse engineering these for 70 years, we would start bringing them out.

01:01:01.000 They would look weird.

01:01:02.000 They wouldn't necessarily look like the craft that we struggled to fly at Groom Lake that we could go up and down with, and that's about it.

01:01:08.000 Like, they would look like this little thing that's simple.

01:01:11.000 It's basically a propane tank, or it's a cube within a sphere.

01:01:15.000 I probably had that backwards again. 0.66

01:01:17.000 And then experiment with it, see what you can do.

01:01:19.000 And a lot of people make the argument, well, why would they do that?

01:01:22.000 It's dangerous.

01:01:22.000 You know, what if there was a mid-air collision?

01:01:24.000 If they are actually manipulating space-time and these things, like they seemingly are with the saucer-shaped craft, you don't have to worry about that.

01:01:31.000 You know, this isn't a cat and mouse game where the cat and mouse are equal.

01:01:36.000 Like, you have complete control of space-time in and around that area.

01:01:38.000 You're not going to run into anybody.

01:01:40.000 They're all moving extremely slowly relative to you, according to Putoff and Davis at the end of that docko.

01:01:45.000 And whoever reached out to me, whether it was Hal or not, somebody reached out to me and explained this same thing in 2019.

01:01:51.000 And it makes a lot of damn sense.

01:01:53.000 And to kind of extend it into my area of research, if you can manipulate space and time in and around this craft, what's keeping you from using that to travel through time?

01:02:03.000 I guess.

01:02:04.000 I mean, but again, that's with the different model, not the multi-worlds model, but what was the other model that you described?

01:02:12.000 Block universe.

01:02:13.000 Block universe theory.

01:02:15.000 Yeah.

01:02:17.000 The idea that they would be so advanced that they could genetically engineer a body and get to whatever state they are at where they communicate telepathically, but yet they can't solve the problem of old DNA.

01:02:34.000 Like needing, what do they need?

01:02:37.000 Genetic diversity? 0.85

01:02:38.000 Like, what is it?

01:02:39.000 What are they trying to get out of us?

01:02:40.000 Are they trying to get the source, source material instead of the old stuff or instead of the stuff that they've had forever?

01:02:47.000 One of the arguments I made in my first and second books is that really since European colonialism starting about 500 years ago, we are all becoming one interbreeding population.

01:02:59.000 So it used to be that you had different isolated populations and then occasionally there would be gene flow that introduces new genes.

01:03:06.000 If we all are just one population on this inbred island of Earth, where are you going to get new gene variants?

01:03:13.000 And then you combine that with the things we just talked about, with the potential for things to go wrong with trying to make designer babies or the trends toward reduced fertility in men and women.

01:03:25.000 And importantly, the potential that there could be some massive cataclysm that puts us into a huge bottleneck where there just is no genetic diversity at all.

01:03:36.000 Like if you think about something that happened that wiped out a huge percentage of the population, and there are warnings about this over and over again with experiencers and contactees, they're like, there's some cataclysmic thing coming.

01:03:48.000 If that were to happen, all of those problems we're already having, all of the trends that are already leading to us having problems with fertility in the future would be hugely exacerbated by a very limited gene pool.

01:04:00.000 Well, we know that human beings have gotten down to a very small population in the past.

01:04:06.000 So we're already kind of limited in our diversity.

01:04:10.000 What do you think of the theory that human beings have been genetically engineered?

01:04:16.000 Man, when I first started in all this, I wouldn't touch that one because I had to impose some restrictions on myself so I didn't seem like a crazy person.

01:04:27.000 And keep your academic standing.

01:04:30.000 I don't really care anymore.

01:04:32.000 To be honest.

01:04:33.000 Well, you sold a few books.

01:04:34.000 Yeah, I sold some books.

01:04:35.000 I mean, that's the thing is like, I do have the respect of my peers.

01:04:39.000 And it's not a career killer anymore.

01:04:41.000 No, exactly.

01:04:42.000 You know, back in 2018, I was kind of rolling the dice.

01:04:45.000 I was really nervous about it.

01:04:46.000 I went to the chair of my department and was like, hey, just so, you know, in case there's any pushback, I'm publishing this book about whether, you know, UFOs are future humans.

01:04:55.000 And he looked at me and cocked his head.

01:04:56.000 It's like, that's our job.

01:04:58.000 That's what we're supposed to be doing, asking questions like that.

01:05:01.000 Like, he was all pissed off.

01:05:03.000 Like, why are you even asking me this or telling me this?

01:05:05.000 Well, that's a cool guy.

01:05:06.000 Yeah, I was like, sweet.

01:05:07.000 All right.

01:05:08.000 Well, check.

01:05:10.000 I got one on board at least.

01:05:12.000 But I was really conservative in this approach.

01:05:15.000 Like, the dean, actually, of my college, who gave me an award for scholarship and researchers, and there's a lot of amazing researchers at Montana Technological University.

01:05:24.000 Like, we're very well known for research and scholarship.

01:05:27.000 She gave me an award in 2022 for research and scholarship.

01:05:31.000 And all I was doing at that point was UFO stuff.

01:05:33.000 You know, that was kind of a nod too.

01:05:36.000 But she was telling me the other day in a meeting, because I'm the chair of the department, unfortunately.

01:05:41.000 And she was like, oh, your dissertation book.

01:05:44.000 Because I did kind of write my first book as a dissertation.

01:05:47.000 It's very scientific.

01:05:48.000 It's very dense.

01:05:49.000 It's very technical.

01:05:50.000 But I needed to do that because of the stigma, because of the shame.

01:05:55.000 And you're right, it is changing, which is great.

01:05:58.000 But there are certain things that we still can't, that are hard for me to talk about because it starts to get into ancient aliens territory.

01:06:05.000 And that's one of them.

01:06:06.000 Are they manipulating us genetically?

01:06:08.000 Have they been for a long time?

01:06:11.000 I don't know.

01:06:12.000 I used to say I don't know so I didn't have to talk about it.

01:06:15.000 Now I say I don't know because I genuinely don't know.

01:06:17.000 Maybe.

01:06:18.000 Well, how could you?

01:06:19.000 How could I?

01:06:19.000 Yeah.

01:06:19.000 Good point.

01:06:20.000 Yeah, I mean, it's all theoretical.

01:06:22.000 But there seems to be a trend in at least the encounter reports.

01:06:29.000 When people have reported some sort of communication with these things, there is – there's a lot of talk of genetic manipulation.

01:06:38.000 There's a lot of talk of – It's the most common trope.

01:06:41.000 Yeah.

01:06:41.000 I think – But it also makes sense when you look at how different we are than any other animal that exists or has existed.

01:06:48.000 True.

01:06:49.000 We're so advanced and so weird, and we vary so much, like biologically and structurally.

01:06:55.000 I mean, there's animals, like there's different kinds of wolves, right?

01:06:59.000 There's gray wolves and red wolves, and they vary.

01:07:02.000 And, you know, red wolves and gray wolves, they can't even interbreed and create viable offspring in terms of like their ability.

01:07:08.000 Like they would be hybrids if they did breed, where they wouldn't, but they don't. 0.87

01:07:12.000 They don't breed with red wolves.

01:07:14.000 And coyotes, which is also a type of wolf.

01:07:17.000 But that's kind of where it ends.

01:07:18.000 Whereas humans are fucking weird.

01:07:20.000 At least coyotes all look like coyotes.

01:07:23.000 Wolves all kind of look like wolves.

01:07:26.000 Like with humans, you get seven foot tall people and five foot tall people and round people and thin people.

01:07:32.000 We are actually all very similar genetically.

01:07:35.000 There's a study done in the 70s looking at polymorphisms and they found that between like what it used to be thought there were races like Africans, Asians, and Europeans.

01:07:47.000 That was it.

01:07:47.000 They didn't consider Native Americans or Australians or anybody.

01:07:51.000 But they did this study on polymorphisms, found that only about six to seven percent of our all of our genetic differences can be accounted for by those between group differences.

01:08:01.000 And they did the same thing with Y chromosomes.

01:08:03.000 They did the same thing with craniofacial anatomy and found that we're all very similar.

01:08:07.000 So despite those differences in height, weight, skin color, hair color, eye color, we're very, very similar, which could again lead to problems related to genetic homogenization, limited gene pool in the future, needing to go back and sample gametes from the past.

01:08:23.000 Another argument I hear people make related to what you're saying, like an argument for potential genetic manipulation of the human species over time, is that it all happened really fast.

01:08:35.000 We see this acceleration in our rate of change, the rate of our technological development.

01:08:40.000 Those things might indicate that there's some sort of seeding in the past with not just technology, but the genetics that allow us to expand our minds and develop these things.

01:08:51.000 Well, then there's the weird stories from ancient scripts, ancient texts like the Book of Enoch.

01:08:57.000 Like, what is that all about?

01:08:59.000 Like, that's some weird stuff where it talks about the watchers coming down from the sky and mating with humans and creating the Nephilim who destroy everything. 0.97

01:09:09.000 Yeah, I might get some shit for this, but I would be willing to bet that all major religions and the little ones have some sort of UFO alien component to the myth and legend that gave rise to them over time.

01:09:24.000 It makes sense.

01:09:25.000 It does.

01:09:26.000 Actually, the third book I wrote, Revelation, flips the whole script on Revelation, and it interjects time travelers.

01:09:34.000 It interjects this whole—for a while, there was this question of whether there was a fight over the timeline, whether the greys were coming back because some cataclysm needed to happen and we all went underground.

01:09:48.000 And that's why we have big eyes and pale skin because we had to evolve underground for a while.

01:09:52.000 And then another group trying to keep that from happening.

01:09:55.000 So the book kind of explores that in a fictional capacity.

01:09:58.000 And I wrote it because my friends weren't reading my science books because they're dense and scientific.

01:10:04.000 And I was like, man, you know, what if I wrote a book that's just like a crass sex drug-fueled exploration of like this time travel idea?

01:10:14.000 And that's where that book came from.

01:10:15.000 It still ties in all of these same concepts scientifically.

01:10:19.000 But in the story, like the main character is an intertemporal sex researcher.

01:10:23.000 She goes back in time and just fucks everybody to learn what to learn what sex is. 1.00

01:10:28.000 That's the book I gave you when I got here, actually.

01:10:30.000 It's a weird one.

01:10:30.000 It does right here.

01:10:31.000 Yeah, it's a weird one.

01:10:33.000 But it's super fun to write, you know?

01:10:35.000 And they're like, and then her, the professor in this book, he's like the, he's an intertemporal drug kingpin of sorts.

01:10:46.000 But it's like, it's exploring these same ideas in a different way, you know, with fiction, it's satire, it's comedy.

01:10:52.000 The word most commonly used is it's hilarious.

01:10:54.000 It's a comedy book.

01:10:55.000 You know, because I wanted people that don't read the science books to still be introduced to this concept and the science behind it in a different way.

01:11:02.000 And man, it was so much more fun to write than those science books.

01:11:06.000 What do you think of when people start theorizing about some sort of a breakaway civilization that lives under the ocean?

01:11:17.000 Yeah.

01:11:18.000 So we actually published a paper about that last June, about the crypto-terrestrial hypothesis.

01:11:26.000 You mentioned it on your show in a really funny way because it went viral internationally.

01:11:30.000 It was absolutely insane, the impact this thing had.

01:11:33.000 Like I had to go on Fox and Friends one morning to talk about it.

01:11:37.000 And then the next day I'd say.

01:11:38.000 made it go viral what was the well because i published it with two guys from harvard I was a co-author on the paper.

01:11:45.000 And so it's clickbait.

01:11:46.000 It's Harvard researchers say dinosaurs are aliens and they live among you.

01:11:51.000 So stuff like that.

01:11:53.000 And it worked.

01:11:56.000 Well, it makes you go, what?

01:11:58.000 Yours was the funniest one.

01:12:00.000 You guys pulled it up on your screen and you're like, man, these Harvard researchers must have snuck in where they're doing the psilocybin experiments and ate all the mushrooms.

01:12:12.000 That cracked me up.

01:12:13.000 And I don't think we did.

01:12:15.000 I don't remember if we did.

01:12:16.000 I don't think we did.

01:12:18.000 But it definitely had elements of like, these guys ate a lot of mushrooms, which was part of why it went viral.

01:12:23.000 But there were some really solid arguments in there.

01:12:26.000 And the title of the paper was Scientific Openness to the Crypto-Terrestrial Idea.

01:12:31.000 That's all we were advocating for.

01:12:33.000 And we listed four main ways in which this crypto-terrestrial idea could happen.

01:12:39.000 And the fourth one is what really got clickbaity because we were like, maybe there is a breakaway civilization.

01:12:45.000 That's the crypto-terrestrial idea.

01:12:47.000 But maybe an advanced reptile dinosaurs didn't go extinct.

01:12:52.000 And this was, you know, we don't think this actually happened, but we're just putting out arguments for what this idea could be.

01:13:00.000 And so, yeah, they took that and put like dinosaurs at keyboards and stuff like that.

01:13:04.000 But one of them is time travelers.

01:13:06.000 And it would make sense if you were in the future, instead of jumping back through time in order to study people in a specific time, you set up a base on the far side of the moon, where up until the 60s, 70s, we wouldn't know they were there.

01:13:18.000 Set up a base under the oceans.

01:13:20.000 And this would go for the extraterrestrial idea, too.

01:13:23.000 Instead of traversing the vast swaths of space, come here, set up under the oceans where we're not going to find you, Antarctica, far side of the moon.

01:13:32.000 And then you can do everything here locally instead of having to jump across space, extraterrestrial, or jump across time, extra-tempestrium.

01:13:40.000 Well, it also explains some of the very strange ways that they've observed crafts moving under the water.

01:13:47.000 Like they've observed crafts moving under the water at 500 knots that are as big as a football field.

01:13:53.000 And apparently there's video of these things.

01:13:56.000 Apparently there's the TV has something that they filmed that is as big as a football field that was going essentially 500 miles an hour underwater without any ripples, not disturbing the water at all, not creating a wake.

01:14:09.000 And then moving right out of them in the transmedium capacity.

01:14:12.000 Yeah.

01:14:13.000 Well, you know, when you think about how little exploration we've done to the bottom of the ocean, we know more about the moon than we do about the surface of the actual bottom of the ocean.

01:14:26.000 Yeah.

01:14:26.000 Yeah, it would be a great place to hide out.

01:14:29.000 And again, you know, the ability to move in and out of air, water, space, upper atmosphere with no disturbances, the transmedium capabilities, that whole warped space-time bubble around them would help explain that too, that they're not experiencing the water.

01:14:46.000 They're not experiencing the air as they move between them.

01:14:49.000 Like, I always think about, I really love skiing.

01:14:52.000 And one of my favorite times to ski is late season.

01:14:56.000 You know, it's April, the sun's out, everybody's in t-shirts or bikinis or whatever.

01:15:00.000 I don't wear bikinis, but people do. 1.00

01:15:02.000 And you get into that slushy stuff.

01:15:04.000 You're cruising down the mountain, you hit the slush, and you just go pass over kettle, you know, over the top of your skis.

01:15:10.000 And that's what, you know, we would expect if they're moving in and out of air and water and space is that there would be some resistance.

01:15:19.000 There's not.

01:15:20.000 You know, they don't have that.

01:15:21.000 And it does indicate that there is some sort of manipulation of space and time around them.

01:15:28.000 And yeah, moving underwater, these football field-sized craft going that fast.

01:15:33.000 I mean, how can you do that if there is actual resistance from the water?

01:15:37.000 Well, it just makes you wonder how much does the government know?

01:15:40.000 You know, you've seen that guy, Tim Burchette, talk about it.

01:15:44.000 He's hilarious.

01:15:44.000 Yeah, it was very funny.

01:15:45.000 I mean, he was just casually mentioning that there's five different locations in the ocean of the world, in the seas of the world, where they've observed crafts coming out of.

01:15:55.000 That's a very weird thing to just say while you're walking.

01:15:59.000 Just casually talk about it.

01:16:01.000 And with such confidence, yeah.

01:16:02.000 Yeah.

01:16:03.000 I mean, they're doing these skiffs.

01:16:05.000 They're talking to people behind closed doors.

01:16:07.000 They don't have the same requirement to not disclose things as those people do.

01:16:12.000 You know, you didn't sign NDAs.

01:16:15.000 And he has a hilarious way of talking about it.

01:16:17.000 He's got the best one-liners of anybody discussing this stuff.

01:16:22.000 I mean, somebody knows.

01:16:23.000 Somebody knows a lot of things.

01:16:25.000 A lot of people probably know a lot of things and have for a very long time.

01:16:29.000 But, you know, what is that relationship?

01:16:32.000 What do they control?

01:16:34.000 Why are we not allowed to know?

01:16:36.000 Well, this is the real question.

01:16:37.000 Like, what do they actually know about what's going on in the ocean?

01:16:41.000 Like, if there are bases somewhere down in the ocean, there's that weird one, the Baltic Sea anomaly.

01:16:47.000 I don't know.

01:16:48.000 Jesse Michaels just did a show about it where he interviewed the guy who found it.

01:16:53.000 I think they're treasure divers, and they found this very strange thing that is sitting on the floor of the ocean, and it has right angles to it, and it's kind of curved.

01:17:05.000 There's an actual, I don't know what kind of an image is of it, but they have explored this thing, and he's convinced that it's not a natural formation.

01:17:17.000 Yeah, interesting.

01:17:18.000 See if you can find something on the Baltic Sea.

01:17:20.000 Put that into our sponsor.

01:17:22.000 It's a location.

01:17:23.000 It's like a base.

01:17:25.000 Look, it looks like a fucking Millennium Falcon.

01:17:28.000 What's wrong with my mouth today?

01:17:29.000 I can't say Millennium Falcon.

01:17:30.000 Like, that's what it looks like.

01:17:32.000 That's interesting.

01:17:34.000 So, you know, look, this could be something that's sitting on, or it could be something that was built at a time where this was not covered by ocean.

01:17:44.000 Yeah.

01:17:44.000 Like, you live in Montana.

01:17:45.000 Montana used to be the great inland sea, right?

01:17:48.000 Yeah.

01:17:49.000 You could find seashells in Montana, which is really weird.

01:17:52.000 Yeah, and even all along the coast of Alaska, like there was about 110-foot rise in sea level over the last 12,000 years.

01:17:59.000 So what, look, more images of this thing?

01:18:02.000 Like, what is that then?

01:18:03.000 Yeah.

01:18:04.000 But these are all artistic renditions.

01:18:06.000 Some of them are.

01:18:07.000 Some of them are.

01:18:07.000 But the other one, that blue one that you see there, that's the real thing.

01:18:11.000 That's what it actually looks like.

01:18:12.000 Yeah, it's pretty anomalous.

01:18:14.000 Right.

01:18:15.000 What is that, though?

01:18:16.000 Is that an ancient structure that people built 20,000 years ago?

01:18:20.000 Like, what is it?

01:18:22.000 Baltic Sea Anomaly is a sonar-detected seafloor formation in the northern Baltic Sea found in 2011 by Swedish Ocean X, formerly Ocean Explorer team, during a treasure hunting expedition.

01:18:33.000 Most geologists who have examined the available data consider it a natural rock formation shaped by glacial processes, despite ongoing popular speculation about UFOs or artificial origin.

01:18:45.000 Yeah.

01:18:47.000 It's tough, man.

01:18:48.000 There's that thing off the coast of Malibu, too.

01:18:50.000 Is it Malibu or is it Catalina Island?

01:18:54.000 What's that one thing where it was in Google Earth and they blurted it out after a while?

01:18:57.000 I think that was just a Google Earth thing.

01:18:59.000 Maybe, maybe not.

01:19:01.000 But it was on Google Earth and then now it's blurred.

01:19:04.000 I read where they're getting the data from Google Earth, you know, like where that, what is that data, you know?

01:19:09.000 I'm not sure.

01:19:11.000 So it was like bad data.

01:19:12.000 I think so.

01:19:13.000 And then it cleared up.

01:19:14.000 I think so.

01:19:14.000 Okay.

01:19:15.000 Also, that's a good answer.

01:19:16.000 I did it.

01:19:16.000 That's a good answer for the government.

01:19:18.000 I did a talk in Manhattan last year.

01:19:24.000 And Tim Gallaudet was one of the speakers.

01:19:26.000 And he was showing images of, I think, what you're talking about, where there was like this sort of almost like a cliff underwater and then had some strange things around it.

01:19:36.000 Like it had been modified.

01:19:39.000 I don't remember exactly what he was saying, but I think that's what you're talking about.

01:19:42.000 Yeah, that was just off of Catalina Island.

01:19:43.000 That's right.

01:19:44.000 Yeah, it was very weird looking.

01:19:46.000 And a lot of people were speculating.

01:19:47.000 And one of the reasons why it's very weird, there's a lot of sightings off of Catalina Island.

01:19:52.000 There's a lot of sightings out there.

01:19:53.000 Yeah, and again, it makes sense if they were trying to covertly study us, regardless of their origins, ultraterrestrial, extraterrestrial, whatever.

01:20:05.000 Use the oceans.

01:20:06.000 Perfect.

01:20:07.000 Perfect base.

01:20:08.000 It's very difficult.

01:20:09.000 Especially if you can move in and out of there with impunity.

01:20:12.000 Not just because we won't see them, but they have the technology to make the water and the air the same thing.

01:20:17.000 Click on that image where the cursor's at?

01:20:18.000 Yeah, that's it.

01:20:18.000 So that's it.

01:20:19.000 That's it.

01:20:20.000 Whatever that is.

01:20:21.000 Like, that looks real weird.

01:20:22.000 It does look weird.

01:20:23.000 That looks real weird.

01:20:25.000 Whatever the hell that is.

01:20:26.000 That's so strange.

01:20:28.000 That's so strange looking.

01:20:30.000 But again, that's like, is that what it really looks like?

01:20:34.000 What are the new images?

01:20:35.000 Is the new one on the right?

01:20:36.000 Okay, that's it right there.

01:20:38.000 The one I had up says it's from 2014.

01:20:42.000 Like, what the hell is that?

01:20:44.000 It's got pillars.

01:20:45.000 I mean, that's very strange.

01:20:46.000 It has those sort of uniform-shaped pillars.

01:20:49.000 Yeah, and the top looks structural, like something you would make to withstand the weight of the water above you.

01:20:56.000 Like a garage door.

01:20:58.000 Yeah.

01:20:58.000 Like it's a garage door to a base.

01:21:00.000 Yep.

01:21:00.000 No, I mean, again, when I started out in this, I was relatively conservative with my views on things.

01:21:08.000 But man, the further you go down this rabbit hole, just the weirder shit gets, and you can't do that anymore.

01:21:14.000 You've got to recognize that there's a lot of things that just you can't write off.

01:21:18.000 You know, the impossible become possible, or at least you have to open your mind to the fact that these things you used to think were impossible need a second look.

01:21:26.000 Right.

01:21:27.000 And then there's also the people that work in military intelligence that work with these defense contractors that say there's black operations, like operations that are completely top secret that are 30 years ahead of anything that you can imagine right now. 0.74

01:21:44.000 So you go, okay, well, what does that look like?

01:21:46.000 What is 30 years ahead of us now look like?

01:21:50.000 Yeah, like that was SR-71, the Blackbird or whatever it is, black, whatever.

01:21:56.000 Yeah, like we didn't even know about that until 20 years after they made it.

01:21:59.000 Right.

01:22:00.000 And it makes sense.

01:22:01.000 You know, you don't want your enemies to know.

01:22:02.000 And that's an argument that's been made over and over, that we can't disclose things because then our enemies will have this technology.

01:22:08.000 Of course.

01:22:09.000 And I always thought growing up that it'll take a war before they're like, oh, we need to use these things.

01:22:14.000 We've been developing.

01:22:15.000 Like, we're getting our ass kicked in this war.

01:22:16.000 It's time to bring out the UFOs and our space stage laser weapons and stuff.

01:22:21.000 But I kind of think it's going to happen before that.

01:22:25.000 It's weird to say, but I kind of get the sense that it is happening.

01:22:30.000 There's been a lot of false horizons.

01:22:31.000 People have been saying that for a long time.

01:22:33.000 But doesn't it feel different?

01:22:34.000 I mean, you can't do it.

01:22:35.000 It definitely does feel different.

01:22:36.000 It definitely feels that the general public is a lot more open to the concept without being thought of as a fool.

01:22:45.000 It used to be when I was a kid, if you'd bring up UFOs, people just roll their eyes, especially before the internet.

01:22:50.000 Oh, my God.

01:22:51.000 If you brought up any of that stuff, they would laugh at you.

01:22:53.000 I was reading some book on Roswell once, like, I think it was in the 1990s.

01:22:57.000 And, you know, this guy's like, what the fuck are you wasting your time on this complete horseshit for?

01:23:02.000 There's no such thing as UFOs.

01:23:03.000 I'm like, how do you say that with such confidence?

01:23:06.000 We live in a galaxy with hundreds of billions of stars just in this galaxy, with hundreds of billions of stars in other galaxies, and there's hundreds of billions of other galaxies.

01:23:17.000 Like, what are you saying?

01:23:18.000 That's crazy to say that we are the only ones.

01:23:21.000 It is.

01:23:22.000 They did a really good job at making us feel like idiots.

01:23:25.000 Yeah.

01:23:26.000 Well, you can see how that can be done.

01:23:29.000 I mean, look what they did during the COVID crisis.

01:23:32.000 You know, if you don't get a vaccine, make your end-of-life preparations now.

01:23:37.000 You know, like you're going to be killing everybody.

01:23:40.000 No one's going to survive.

01:23:42.000 This disease targets the unvaccinated.

01:23:44.000 And people believed all that.

01:23:46.000 Well, I think the two are related, too, because we started to figure out that we've been lied to about UFOs.

01:23:50.000 And the obvious question is, what else?

01:23:52.000 What else were they lying to us about?

01:23:54.000 Yes.

01:23:54.000 Well, I think once you realize how strong the propaganda machine is and how gullible people are.

01:24:00.000 Oh, yeah, that's the big one.

01:24:01.000 Easily.

01:24:02.000 I mean, if people were going to accept something as 100% truth without any investigation or any skepticism from the pharmaceutical drug industry, they are the most evil motherfuckers that have ever lived.

01:24:17.000 They are responsible for more death from releasing drugs that have horrible adverse side effects that they knew about.

01:24:24.000 They have taken the largest criminal fines of any companies.

01:24:29.000 I mean what they've done is really fucking creepy when you look at how they release drugs that they knew were going to fuck people over and they knew those people didn't need those drugs.

01:24:39.000 And yet when you put people in a scary situation and you make them terrified and you offer up a solution, they believe wholeheartedly that the pharmaceutical drug companies were only telling the truth and anybody who didn't believe.

01:24:53.000 They have your best interest in mind.

01:24:55.000 So it's like that sheep mentality is so strong with so many people.

01:24:59.000 There are so many cowards in the world and so many followers that would just step in line the moment things get weird, whenever they get challenged, the moment things get weird, that it just makes sense that if you make it like socially, you become a social pariah if you start talking about UFO.

01:25:15.000 Here's Mike with his fucking wacky UFO theories.

01:25:19.000 Like people don't talk about those things.

01:25:21.000 They don't want to bring them up.

01:25:22.000 And the military industrial complex is kind of the equivalent of the pharmaceutical companies on the other side of this coin.

01:25:28.000 Sure.

01:25:29.000 We trust them.

01:25:30.000 They defend us, whatever they are making, I'm sure they'll use for great purposes.

01:25:36.000 But yeah, I mean, a big part of that was making us feel like idiots for talking about this stuff.

01:25:40.000 And that is changing, though.

01:25:42.000 And it's not largely because of, you know, ancient aliens.

01:25:46.000 I've been on the show five times.

01:25:48.000 I had a little bit of cognitive dissonance the first time I went on.

01:25:52.000 That show goes, they go way out there.

01:25:53.000 They get out there, man.

01:25:55.000 But it's just fun.

01:25:56.000 It is fun.

01:25:57.000 You know, and that's how I approached it.

01:25:59.000 Well, I also approached it because I was trying to talk about this theory.

01:26:02.000 They did this funny bait and switch for the first three episodes I was on, where they're like, hey, come down, talk about your theory.

01:26:08.000 I'm like, oh, okay.

01:26:09.000 So I'll go to LA or wherever.

01:26:11.000 And we do this shoot.

01:26:12.000 They cut out everything about my books and this theory and just used me to talk about whatever this show was actually about.

01:26:19.000 Little small snippets.

01:26:20.000 Yeah.

01:26:20.000 I caught on to that.

01:26:21.000 And so the fourth time I went, I was like, all right, but I'm only doing it if you guys actually, you know, and one of the episodes was about this whole theory anyway.

01:26:28.000 So it made sense.

01:26:30.000 But I forget what we're talking about.

01:26:36.000 Oh, the stigma.

01:26:37.000 So one of the cool things that's been happening, largely because of Ancient your show, you know, you talk about this a lot and it helps normalize it for a lot of people, is that there's a safe space now, you know?

01:26:49.000 Like where you'll be talking about these things and somebody will come up who had a sighting when they were, you know, a teenager or in their 40s or whatever, and they never told anybody.

01:27:00.000 And now it's like, wait, it's safe to talk about this?

01:27:02.000 And that's so cool to see, man.

01:27:03.000 And then it makes me realize just how many people have had an experience.

01:27:07.000 It's been bottled up inside.

01:27:09.000 It's liberating to let that come out.

01:27:11.000 And we're sharing information and contactees too.

01:27:13.000 You know, unfortunately, I started saying earlier, we're still kind of stuck on, this is changing too, but we're still largely stuck on the cockpit videos and the FLIR and the gimbal and the GoFast.

01:27:23.000 But people have been taken into these craft.

01:27:25.000 They've had stuff put on their junk and their semen take it. 1.00

01:27:29.000 Like there's a lot of no-no square touching that happens, anal probes, you know.

01:27:34.000 And we used to laugh at that, but that is such a common theme throughout these.

01:27:38.000 And we need to recognize that these people are having real experiences and have been having them for a very long time.

01:27:44.000 Let's move on.

01:27:45.000 Let's talk to these people.

01:27:46.000 Let's let the contactees and experiencers who have had the closest form of a close encounter you can have, let's trust them now.

01:27:53.000 Let's listen to what they have to say.

01:27:55.000 Let's be discerning, you know, but let's keep an open mind.

01:27:58.000 Well, I think one of the more interesting things when you start talking about stories and encounters, one of the more interesting things is some of the research that Jacques Valley has done where he brings up stories that absolutely predate the modern cultural visions of UFOs.

01:28:17.000 Like the modern cultural concept of the close encounter of the third kind type grays that come down in a flying saucer. 1.00

01:28:25.000 All those things.

01:28:25.000 Like flying saucer didn't even come out until the Kenneth Arnold experiences.

01:28:30.000 Yeah.

01:28:30.000 So it's these encounters people are talking about from the 1700s and the 1800s.

01:28:36.000 And they're talking about something coming down and something interacting with people and them having some sort of experience of lost time.

01:28:46.000 The threat is very common.

01:28:47.000 The Betty and Barney Hill story.

01:28:49.000 Yep.

01:28:50.000 Yeah, it's not just the gamete extractions.

01:28:53.000 I mean, you could make the argument that a lot of things that happened in very mainstream religious texts were exactly what people are describing.

01:29:03.000 Even the CIA admitted that unexplainable pregnancies are an aspect of the phenomenon.

01:29:11.000 Where'd Jesus come from?

01:29:13.000 Kind of an unexplainable pregnancy.

01:29:15.000 I think Jesus was a time traveler, personally.

01:29:17.000 A time traveler.

01:29:18.000 Yeah, that's another aspect of that book.

01:29:20.000 It's in your satire?

01:29:21.000 It's in my satire book.

01:29:23.000 Yeah.

01:29:24.000 I think.

01:29:25.000 Oh, you literally have Jesus coming out of a UFO.

01:29:28.000 I got some shit for that.

01:29:29.000 With the double bird.

01:29:31.000 He's throwing up the double bird.

01:29:32.000 It turns out Christians don't like that. 0.88

01:29:34.000 Well.

01:29:35.000 You know, I don't know.

01:29:36.000 Can't please everybody, right?

01:29:37.000 No, you can't.

01:29:38.000 But there are many aspects of Jesus' life, big fan of Jesus, by the way, that are very paranormal.

01:29:45.000 A lot of these seemingly miraculous things, I think, can be explained with a lot of the same technologies that we see today.

01:29:53.000 We just didn't have a way of conceptualizing them.

01:29:55.000 Obviously, Ezekiel is the one that gets talked about a lot.

01:29:57.000 The wheel within a wheel, the telepathy, the embers, burning embers.

01:30:02.000 Yeah.

01:30:03.000 Yeah, and then you look at the Nephilim, like, and all kinds of different Mbaba Wana Veresa, this story from Zulu lore, it's a fucking alien abduction, man.

01:30:14.000 And they've been telling this story for thousands of years.

01:30:17.000 So it's this woman, the sky goddess, who chooses a man to mate with and comes down, tests him to make sure that he knows that it's her, appears in his dreams, communicates telepathically, gets him ready for this interaction.

01:30:33.000 He's in love with her, never met her before.

01:30:35.000 She comes down from the sky and takes him up with her on this rainbow of light.

01:30:41.000 Like all of those, like, and I made the case in my second book that if Antonio V.S. Boas had been able to go back with the woman that he had sex with, it's basically the same story.

01:30:55.000 So this Brazilian lawyer is telling a story that's identical to the Zulu legend that's been told for centuries, millennia.

01:31:01.000 I don't know how far it goes back.

01:31:03.000 Kind of weird.

01:31:06.000 But we need to look outside of just the mainstream view, which is finally happening.

01:31:12.000 So I'm excited about that.

01:31:14.000 I'm very grateful.

01:31:15.000 I have a lot of gratitude about what's happening.

01:31:17.000 But the question.

01:31:18.000 Why did the mainstream view become what it is?

01:31:22.000 And we know that that is because of a concerted, concentrated propaganda effort.

01:31:26.000 Yeah.

01:31:27.000 Yeah.

01:31:27.000 And a very effective one.

01:31:29.000 I mean, they nailed it.

01:31:30.000 Well, they had, there was no other media back then.

01:31:33.000 They had complete control of newspapers, complete control of television stations.

01:31:38.000 I mean, how much do we know now about various news anchors that were actually CIA agents?

01:31:44.000 There's a fucking shit ton of them.

01:31:46.000 And even if they weren't, they were being force-fed this stuff that they were happy to regurgitate.

01:31:50.000 Absolutely.

01:31:51.000 Yeah.

01:31:51.000 They just wanted to look good and have a suit and speak like an expert.

01:31:54.000 Here we go.

01:31:55.000 And if you don't toe the line, somebody else will.

01:31:57.000 Yeah.

01:31:58.000 And you're living a great life.

01:31:59.000 You drive a Mercedes.

01:32:00.000 You live in a nice house.

01:32:01.000 Why would you fuck this up?

01:32:02.000 Over a UFO story?

01:32:03.000 Just tell your friends.

01:32:04.000 Just tell everybody.

01:32:05.000 Keep it to yourself.

01:32:05.000 That's what you're supposed to tell them.

01:32:07.000 Yeah.

01:32:07.000 It's easy to get people to comply like that, especially when they're dependent upon, you know, whether it's a corporate entity like CNN or whether it's the New York Times or whatever it is.

01:32:16.000 It's not hard to get people to comply.

01:32:18.000 No, and you're right.

01:32:19.000 Since the internet, things have changed.

01:32:22.000 Radically.

01:32:23.000 Really radically.

01:32:24.000 Radically.

01:32:25.000 But I think there's a downside, too.

01:32:28.000 We've already kind of been moving toward a post-truth existence.

01:32:33.000 Good Lord, man.

01:32:34.000 Like, I'll scroll through videos on Twitter now.

01:32:37.000 90% of them are fake.

01:32:38.000 Oh, there's so much AI now.

01:32:40.000 It's so ridiculous.

01:32:41.000 And that's all crazy.

01:32:42.000 I make the unfortunate decision to go into the comments to see what percentage of people think it's real.

01:32:48.000 80.

01:32:50.000 90?

01:32:51.000 I would say at least 90.

01:32:52.000 It's insane.

01:32:53.000 Like, I just, I have it, still have it on my phone.

01:32:55.000 It's a stupid fucking video of a rabbit nursing its little rabbit babies, and one of them is a cat.

01:33:02.000 So the mom cat comes in, picks the fucking baby cat up by the nose, like they're magnetically attached. 1.00

01:33:09.000 It doesn't even grab it.

01:33:09.000 Like they just, the baby kind of comes with it, and then walks out the back of the burrow.

01:33:14.000 Like there's no back to a rabbit burrow.

01:33:16.000 You know, and everybody's like, oh, whoops, that cat made a mistake.

01:33:19.000 It's drinking from the wrong species.

01:33:22.000 People don't see it.

01:33:23.000 They don't see that this is very obviously fake.

01:33:26.000 And it's not just for that.

01:33:27.000 Like they're using it for propaganda.

01:33:29.000 They're using it for the same type of thing that they've used forever.

01:33:32.000 Oh, well, this UFO phenomenon's not real because AI made this video.

01:33:37.000 Well, there's also the problem with what percentage of people that are even commenting are actual people.

01:33:41.000 Exactly.

01:33:41.000 There's a huge amount of bots that are communicating on all the social media platforms.

01:33:46.000 A giant percentage of the comments are not real people.

01:33:49.000 That's a really good point.

01:33:50.000 Yeah.

01:33:51.000 No, you're right.

01:33:52.000 So they would comment on anything and just say, well, that also still feeds the perception that it's real.

01:33:58.000 Because other people that maybe don't have great critical thinking skills or discernment because they're a 90-year-old grandma that doesn't know how to use a computer, she sees that, oh, it's cute.

01:34:07.000 I think it erodes the consensus intelligence.

01:34:11.000 Yeah.

01:34:11.000 Like The overall level of intelligent discourse that a society puts out.

01:34:18.000 You know, if you have a town square, which is like Twitter is our town square, right?

01:34:22.000 If that town square is populated by fake people, like enormous percentage populated by fake people that are just designed to say the most inflammatory, ridiculous things to get interaction and engagement and also to erode people's faith in other people and to make us argue with each other.

01:34:42.000 Construct the other, like you were saying at the beginning of this conversation.

01:34:45.000 It fuels tribalism.

01:34:47.000 Yeah.

01:34:47.000 It's really problematic.

01:34:49.000 My hope is that eventually there'll be some way to accurately discern and it'll stop that stuff from happening.

01:34:58.000 You know, that you'll be able to tell like very clearly whether or not it's an actual person.

01:35:03.000 The problem is that if that does happen, it's a gateway to digital ID because you would have to lose your anonymity.

01:35:12.000 Anonymity is very important for whistleblowers.

01:35:15.000 Like say if you work for a corporation, you find out that corporation is dumping stuff into a river and it's all secret and it's illegal and you know that if you tell they're going to kill you, you know, and you're an executive at that corporation, your conscience is troubled.

01:35:28.000 You can make a fake account.

01:35:30.000 You could sign up through a VPN.

01:35:32.000 You can make a fake account and you could post all this information that you know and you could break a story and you don't face any consequences.

01:35:41.000 You don't get killed.

01:35:42.000 If you have digital ID, if we know who everybody is that's posting something and you make that same post, who knows what they do to you?

01:35:49.000 Who knows what happens?

01:35:51.000 Yeah, and it's been happening.

01:35:53.000 There's been whistleblowers who have had mysterious deaths for a long time.

01:35:58.000 All over the place.

01:36:01.000 Yeah, it's Gary Webb, didn't he shoot himself in the head twice?

01:36:06.000 Was that the story?

01:36:07.000 That's the one Tim Burchett always says, get shot, or you shoot yourself in the back of the head four times or something.

01:36:13.000 Yeah, I mean, I think in reference to that, how did Gary Webb die?

01:36:19.000 Making sure it's true that I'm on.

01:36:21.000 Yeah, there's, but even if that's not true, there's a bunch of stories about whistleblowers who go missing.

01:36:27.000 Yeah, there's so many examples.

01:36:29.000 If you're inconvenient, you're going to cost them billions of dollars and they can just get rid of you.

01:36:33.000 They just get rid of you, whoever they are.

01:36:36.000 Yeah, it all comes down to money, and it has for a very long time.

01:36:39.000 Someone was deciding if this was accurate.

01:36:41.000 They found out a case where someone shot themselves in the head eight times.

01:36:44.000 Oh, that's a lot.

01:36:46.000 So there's a couple cases where it's happening.

01:36:48.000 Boy, that's a commitment.

01:36:49.000 I mean, I guess if it was like an airsoft gun or something.

01:36:54.000 I don't think that killed him.

01:36:55.000 That'd be a really inefficient way to kill yourself.

01:36:57.000 Yeah.

01:36:58.000 The whole thing's crazy.

01:36:59.000 Do you think it's even possible to kill your airsoft gun?

01:37:03.000 Maybe.

01:37:04.000 Like a lobotomy kind of if you shot yourself up the nose eight times that fast.

01:37:08.000 No, it's not, is it?

01:37:09.000 I mean, it might be a infection.

01:37:12.000 Oh, that's see, so you could.

01:37:14.000 I guess.

01:37:15.000 If you've got enough airsoft bullets in you, just fills up your entire day's life.

01:37:19.000 If you ever went to the doctor, maybe eventually you'd get an infection.

01:37:23.000 I think somebody might intervene at that point.

01:37:25.000 When I was living in LA when I first moved there, a guy had killed himself accidentally on a set because he took a gun that was a blank gun and he shot himself in the head, like trying to be funny.

01:37:36.000 And it killed him because the force that comes out of the gun is still extremely powerful.

01:37:41.000 And he put it to his temple and he literally caved his skull in.

01:37:44.000 That sucks.

01:37:45.000 Yeah.

01:37:46.000 That's rough.

01:37:47.000 Yeah, that was an actor who just didn't know any better and he thought he was just going to be funny.

01:37:53.000 Yeah, so shooting yourself in the head twice, highly unlikely.

01:37:56.000 Eight times.

01:37:58.000 But I guess you could shoot yourself in the head once and just really fuck it up, but be aware that you're still alive and be committed to doing it and then shoot yourself a second time.

01:38:06.000 I guess it's possible.

01:38:07.000 I mean, unless the pain response was like, yeah, it didn't feel good.

01:38:10.000 I don't want to do that again.

01:38:11.000 Or maybe the pain response is so bad you want to do it again just.

01:38:14.000 Oh, that's a good point.

01:38:15.000 Yeah.

01:38:16.000 Like, whoops, let's get this over with.

01:38:18.000 I don't know.

01:38:19.000 But our point, what we're getting at is that for the longest time, there was no real outlet to get true information out other than books.

01:38:28.000 And books are so easily maligned.

01:38:30.000 You know, if someone has a cookie book, you read it and you go, oh, that guy's nuts.

01:38:34.000 That is a conspiracy theory.

01:38:36.000 And then, of course, that term is popularized during the JFK assassination because that very reason there was a lot of people that doubted the official story, and those people became conspiracy theorists.

01:38:46.000 Have you looked into that much?

01:38:47.000 Oh, yeah.

01:38:48.000 I kind of thought you had.

01:38:49.000 Who do you think did it?

01:38:50.000 I think there was a lot of people.

01:38:52.000 I think here's a mistake that people make.

01:38:54.000 They say Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone or Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't involved and he was a Patsy.

01:39:01.000 Lee Harvey Oswald shot a cop.

01:39:04.000 There's like very few people that disagree on that.

01:39:06.000 I think it's Officer Tippett, I think that was his name, when he was on the run.

01:39:11.000 So Lee Harvey Oswald absolutely seems to be some sort of an intelligence asset in some way or another.

01:39:17.000 Married a Russian woman, lived in Russia for a while, came back to the United States during the time of the whole, I mean, this is right after the Red Scare.

01:39:24.000 The fact that this guy went to Russia, married a Russian woman, came back, and the whole thing, screw it. 0.85

01:39:29.000 He could have been a Patsy and involved, too.

01:39:31.000 Yeah, right?

01:39:31.000 Absolutely.

01:39:32.000 I heard some theory once about the driver turn around with some gun or was there something about like a poisonous fish horseshit.

01:39:41.000 That's all horseshit.

01:39:42.000 All horseshit.

01:39:43.000 That's why I was asking because I don't know.

01:39:44.000 Well, there's a lot of those.

01:39:45.000 One of the best ways to make a conspiracy theory seem absolutely ridiculous is to add a bunch of really silly ones into the mix.

01:39:53.000 And so that any conspiracy theory involving something that's not the official narrative.

01:39:58.000 But there's just so many aspects of the Kennedy assassination.

01:40:01.000 The back and to the left, the headshot, the shot in the neck from the front, the magic bullet, which is preposterous.

01:40:07.000 It's the most preposterous.

01:40:09.000 There's a lot of them.

01:40:11.000 There's a lot of these weird aspects to it.

01:40:13.000 And there's also the fact that Kenny was very hated.

01:40:16.000 Also, the fact that, you know, it's in Dealey Plaza, which is like, why would you ever drive someone through there in a convertible that's the president?

01:40:27.000 That's a very, you know, any president is, you know, we think of JFK was the most loved president, right, by half the country.

01:40:35.000 That's how it always is, folks.

01:40:37.000 There's always half the country that thinks you suck and half the country that loves you.

01:40:40.000 That's how it was with Clinton.

01:40:42.000 That's how it was with Obama.

01:40:43.000 So it is with everybody.

01:40:45.000 Yeah.

01:40:45.000 No, we don't tend to agree on those things as well.

01:40:48.000 There was a lot of people that were very happy when he died, including Dulles.

01:40:53.000 So Dulles was fired by JFK and then was on the Warren Commission investigating JFK's assassination, which is hilarious.

01:41:03.000 It's kind of crazy.

01:41:05.000 Richard Nixon, also in the Warren Commission.

01:41:07.000 The Warren Commission, there's a great book on it called Best Evidence by David Lifton.

01:41:12.000 And he was an accountant that was hired to do something with the Warren Commission, some aspect of the Warren Commission.

01:41:20.000 So he decides to read the whole thing.

01:41:22.000 It's a huge amount of pages.

01:41:25.000 I forget how many pages are in the Warren Commission report.

01:41:27.000 I think it's at least 900 pages.

01:41:29.000 So he reads the whole thing.

01:41:31.000 And after it, he comes to this conclusion.

01:41:34.000 Like, there's so many inconsistencies.

01:41:36.000 There's so many contradictions.

01:41:38.000 There's like this, this doesn't make any sense.

01:41:40.000 Like, they were trying to reach a conclusion.

01:41:43.000 So many of the witnesses that saw the assassination died in very weird deaths.

01:41:48.000 The statistical possibility or probability of all those people dying from murder or suicide, car accidents, you know, it's just too weird.

01:41:57.000 It's too weird.

01:41:58.000 What about the UFO connection?

01:42:00.000 Like, that's the one I hear.

01:42:01.000 I don't know if there's anything.

01:42:02.000 Is there any CIA ties?

01:42:05.000 And I don't know.

01:42:07.000 I don't know what's bullshit and what's not.

01:42:10.000 Yeah.

01:42:11.000 There was clearly, like, we had the technology for 20 years at that point.

01:42:15.000 Yeah.

01:42:15.000 What does a president even know?

01:42:18.000 I don't know what they know.

01:42:19.000 I don't know whether or not they would kill him for that.

01:42:22.000 That doesn't make any sense.

01:42:23.000 That doesn't make any sense.

01:42:25.000 You know the Nixon story with Jackie Gleason?

01:42:29.000 No, I don't think you don't know that story?

01:42:31.000 Uh-uh.

01:42:32.000 The story is that Jackie Gleason and Nixon were drinking one day, and they were friends.

01:42:37.000 And Nixon was like, I want to see a fucking UFO.

01:42:42.000 They get in a plane and he took them to, was it Wright-Patterson?

01:42:47.000 Jamie, do you remember?

01:42:48.000 I think it was somewhere in Florida.

01:42:49.000 But I don't.

01:42:50.000 I remember when we looked this up, they said there's he went somewhere.

01:42:54.000 I'll look it up.

01:42:55.000 So anyway, supposedly, sees this recovered craft and bodies that are in freezers.

01:43:02.000 So Jackie Gleason, one thing's true about this.

01:43:05.000 He became obsessed with UFOs.

01:43:07.000 That is true.

01:43:08.000 And it'd be hard not to after something like that.

01:43:10.000 Yeah.

01:43:11.000 There's definitely a catalyst.

01:43:12.000 Imagine.

01:43:12.000 I mean, fucking, dude, right now, someone took me.

01:43:15.000 If Trump called me up, I'm going to see some shit.

01:43:19.000 And all of a sudden, I'm standing in front of some craft that's made of this unknown alloy.

01:43:23.000 And especially some of the weirder stories where you have a craft that's like 40 feet wide and you go inside of it, it's bigger than a football field.

01:43:30.000 That's wild.

01:43:31.000 So here it is.

01:43:33.000 Nixon arranged for him to visit Homestead Air Force Base in Florida.

01:43:36.000 Upon his arrival, armed guards took Gleason to a building at a remote location on the site.

01:43:41.000 There, Gleason, who harbored an intense interest in UFO, saw the embalmed bodies of four alien beings, two feet long with small bald heads and big ears.

01:43:50.000 He was told nothing about the circumstances of the recovery.

01:43:53.000 He swore his wife to secrecy, but after the divorce, Beverly freely discussed the story.

01:43:58.000 In the mid-80s, UFO UFologist Larry Bryant sued the U.S. government to get it to reveal its UFO secrets.

01:44:05.000 He tried without success to subpoena Gleason.

01:44:08.000 Wow, he wanted to subpoena Gleason.

01:44:10.000 Yo, that's crazy.

01:44:11.000 I mean, he could just plead the fit the whole time.

01:44:13.000 Oh, yeah.

01:44:14.000 I was drunk.

01:44:14.000 I don't remember anything.

01:44:15.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:44:16.000 Yeah, I mean, how would you know?

01:44:18.000 But Gleason built a house in upstate New York.

01:44:21.000 Oh, yeah, I heard about that.

01:44:22.000 That looks like a UFO.

01:44:23.000 Right.

01:44:24.000 Isn't it for sale right now?

01:44:25.000 It is right now.

01:44:25.000 Yeah.

01:44:26.000 We thought about buying it.

01:44:27.000 I did.

01:44:27.000 I looked that up one time.

01:44:28.000 I don't remember why, but it's kind of cool.

01:44:32.000 Yeah, it's kind of cool, but the problem is if we bought it, everybody would know that that's ours.

01:44:35.000 Yeah, true.

01:44:36.000 Like, oh, Joe Rogan's got the UFO house, and then they'd visit and fuck up my vacation.

01:44:41.000 That's true.

01:44:43.000 That's always bound to happen.

01:44:44.000 I remember Barry Goldwater.

01:44:47.000 I mean, come on, man.

01:44:48.000 That's pretty sweet.

01:44:49.000 Fucking crazy.

01:44:50.000 Something happened.

01:44:52.000 There was a catalyst involved in his interest.

01:44:55.000 Well, I mean, if you're friends with Nixon and this is in the 1960s and all this stuff is talking about a fucking dope house, by the way, talking about asking some commander general about what's it right, Pat, and I guess he just cussed him out.

01:45:13.000 Barry Goldwater.

01:45:14.000 He was like, never fucking ask me that again.

01:45:16.000 Yeah.

01:45:16.000 Really?

01:45:16.000 Yeah.

01:45:17.000 He cussed out Barry Goldwater?

01:45:19.000 He was a, yeah, I don't think he was ever president, candidate for president.

01:45:22.000 But yeah, no, there's people that don't want us to know.

01:45:26.000 The big thing going around now is that Dick Cheney was the ringleader of all of this, the deep state, the UFO secrets, the gatekeepers.

01:45:37.000 Wow, he had to know.

01:45:39.000 Of course.

01:45:39.000 That guy, I don't know.

01:45:40.000 Kissinger, too, probably.

01:45:42.000 Like the legacy programs.

01:45:43.000 These are legacy people.

01:45:45.000 Well, someone has got to talk, right?

01:45:48.000 But it's like, but at to what level?

01:45:51.000 And the idea, here's the really erroneous idea that a lot of people hold.

01:45:56.000 People can't keep a secret.

01:45:57.000 Of course they can.

01:45:59.000 Of course they can.

01:46:00.000 Especially when their life's being.

01:46:01.000 Yeah.

01:46:01.000 Of course they can.

01:46:03.000 Especially if, I mean, there are certain programs that if you disclose the existence of this program, it is considered treason, and they are allowed to execute you for that.

01:46:14.000 So you have to take that into consideration.

01:46:16.000 I would keep a secret if that was the case.

01:46:18.000 Of course.

01:46:19.000 Then you have to take into consideration the immense amount of money.

01:46:22.000 And this is discussed really very comprehensively in the Age of Disclosure documentary.

01:46:28.000 I think they did a great job of highlighting the whole problem with the misappropriation of funds.

01:46:33.000 So someone had a lie to Congress.

01:46:35.000 If they have these back engineering programs, if they've been spending as much as a trillion dollars over the course of X amount of years, where's that money and who lied and who benefited from it?

01:46:47.000 What military contractors were allowed to have this stuff to back engineer it?

01:46:52.000 What process has taken place to shield the American public from that?

01:46:57.000 And what profits have they made from that that made them like much more anti-competition against other military contractors?

01:47:09.000 Which is another reason to keep this secret, too.

01:47:10.000 It's not just you might get killed, but there's a lot of profit potential in this.

01:47:14.000 And we don't want our competitors to get it.

01:47:16.000 Also, a lot of fraud, I'm sure.

01:47:18.000 Yeah.

01:47:18.000 Like with any no oversight at all and a shitload of money.

01:47:22.000 Black money. 0.57

01:47:23.000 Oh, my God.

01:47:24.000 There's not a chance in hell that there wasn't some money that went into people's pockets.

01:47:28.000 Human nature takes over and people are like, well, I could just keep some of that.

01:47:31.000 Yeah.

01:47:32.000 Nobody's watching the till.

01:47:33.000 Yeah.

01:47:33.000 I mean, look, we're finding that with things just like Black Lives Matter.

01:47:37.000 It was massive fraud.

01:47:38.000 Like just like just nonprofit organizations.

01:47:41.000 Oh, yeah.

01:47:42.000 Like I don't, I don't want to start shitting on NGOs or anything, but that's a big reason why I don't give money to I'll find smaller organizations doing things on a local level, but local stuff you can trust.

01:47:54.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:47:55.000 You get big enough, it's just that happens.

01:47:58.000 Yeah.

01:47:58.000 And of course, if you're talking trillions of dollars, black money that nobody's tracing.

01:48:03.000 And I mean, that was one of David Grush's arguments, too, is that these whistleblowers are exposing crimes, you know, fraud, potential murder that happened to keep these secrets.

01:48:15.000 So, yeah, it's a complex, it's a very nuanced situation that we will have to move past if we are going to have disclosure in some capacity, however that happens.

01:48:25.000 I mean, amnesty has been talked about for some people.

01:48:28.000 That was in the documentary.

01:48:30.000 That was the road out of this, which totally makes sense to me.

01:48:33.000 Like, what is really important?

01:48:34.000 The fraud has already taken place.

01:48:36.000 If people are prosecuted for the fraud, guess what?

01:48:38.000 If we don't release it, they'll never be prosecuted for the fraud anyway.

01:48:41.000 Yeah, and what's the alternative?

01:48:42.000 We wait until they die and then talk about it.

01:48:44.000 I would rather just give them amnesty now and then let them die without these secrets going to their deathbed with them.

01:48:51.000 But just not only that, if they're misappropriating funds, they're not just doing it 30 years ago.

01:48:54.000 They're doing it last week.

01:48:56.000 So now the current people also have an incentive to not disclose.

01:49:01.000 Yeah.

01:49:01.000 Unless you have mass amnesty to say, listen, let's just forget about all this stuff.

01:49:06.000 Then the problem with that is all those people that are profiting off of it right now and also funneling money into whatever NGOs they have and misappropriation of money and embezzlements.

01:49:17.000 What do we do with that IP, too?

01:49:19.000 Like the intellectual property that, say, Northrop Grumman or whoever has, Boeing, like, do we share that now?

01:49:25.000 Do they have to give that up and spread it across the industry?

01:49:28.000 Yeah.

01:49:29.000 It's all weird, man.

01:49:30.000 It's very weird because there's been a few inventions that came about after Roswell that a lot of people say, like, this does not make any sense.

01:49:38.000 Yeah, fiber optics is one.

01:49:40.000 Transistor is another one.

01:49:41.000 Yeah.

01:49:42.000 There's a lot of weirdness.

01:49:44.000 People are like, oh, there's a direct.

01:49:45.000 Scientific research shows how they made it.

01:49:47.000 Yeah, but there's not.

01:49:48.000 If you go into it, it's like there's a giant leap that gets made that's real weird.

01:49:53.000 I mean, I'll take more leaps, man.

01:49:55.000 Like, honestly, these craft would be empowered by something that's very, very energized, you know?

01:50:02.000 And if we could use that to, I mean, I pay a lot in utilities bills.

01:50:09.000 I was going to talk about like climate change or some shit, and then I made about myself and my utilities.

01:50:13.000 You could have your own zero-point energy generator in your backyard.

01:50:17.000 Never have to worry about power again.

01:50:19.000 Never have to worry about it.

01:50:20.000 See at like 90, you know, have as many Christmas lights as I want.

01:50:24.000 Yeah, never worry about the grid.

01:50:25.000 The grid doesn't exist anymore.

01:50:27.000 It doesn't exist.

01:50:27.000 I mean, imagine that.

01:50:28.000 Or an infrastructure level.

01:50:30.000 And there's so many implications.

01:50:32.000 If it's real.

01:50:33.000 If it's real.

01:50:34.000 You think it's real.

01:50:35.000 Right.

01:50:35.000 You're convinced.

01:50:36.000 I'm convinced it is.

01:50:37.000 Yeah.

01:50:37.000 I mean, it makes sense.

01:50:38.000 There's so much energy trapped within the space between, you know, that's what it is.

01:50:45.000 Even at zero degrees.

01:50:46.000 Try to explain.

01:50:47.000 If you can, try to explain the concept of zero-point energy.

01:50:50.000 Man, that's beyond my pay grade.

01:50:52.000 Other than that, I know that it is infinitely times more energetic than what you get when you split an atom or fuse atoms together, the nuclear force.

01:51:04.000 My understanding, again, very limited knowledge, is that even when you take a molecule, particle, whatever, and you freeze it down to zero degrees, there's still energy inside of that.

01:51:16.000 And there's energy at a subquantum level that if we could tap into that, it would provide infinite energy.

01:51:25.000 The downside is it would also make a bomb that is much, much more powerful than the biggest hydrogen bomb because you're releasing that energy in a way that's irresponsible.

01:51:34.000 There's this quote going around by E.O. Wilson, a famed biologist, on, I think I saw it on Twitter, that was like, we have prehistoric emotions, medieval institutions, and godlike technology.

01:51:49.000 Basically saying we're fucked.

01:51:50.000 Yeah.

01:51:50.000 Because we've got like little kids playing with chainsaws, you know?

01:51:56.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:51:56.000 But zero points.

01:51:58.000 Little kids playing with guns.

01:51:59.000 Exactly.

01:51:59.000 But zero points kind of that next thing.

01:52:02.000 Like when Einstein equals MC squared, you know, there's all this energy and mass.

01:52:07.000 And if we, you know, split these atoms, combine these atoms, we can release that energy.

01:52:11.000 Sweet.

01:52:12.000 But hundreds of thousands of people died in Japan, you know?

01:52:17.000 So what's the flip side of zero point?

01:52:19.000 Like it would definitely unlock a lot of potential, but are we responsible enough as a species to handle that type of energy?

01:52:28.000 Right.

01:52:29.000 Currently, no.

01:52:30.000 EO Wilson says no, and I'm on board with anything he says.

01:52:33.000 Well, I'm on board with it.

01:52:34.000 Just look at what's happening in Ukraine.

01:52:36.000 Look at what's happening in Gaza.

01:52:37.000 Look what's happening.

01:52:37.000 I mean, there's full-scale war.

01:52:40.000 Scary shit.

01:52:41.000 It's happening right now in various parts of the world where, you know, we're just blowing people to smithereens.

01:52:48.000 And you know what?

01:52:48.000 That's kind of an interesting argument about the whole time travel thing.

01:52:54.000 You know, there's these genocides.

01:52:55.000 There's a genocide happening now in Gaza.

01:52:57.000 It blows my mind that we can still have genocides and just not do anything about it.

01:53:00.000 But like Pol Pot, you know, three, four million people killed, the Holocaust, Darfur. 0.68

01:53:06.000 But these aliens don't seem to care about us.

01:53:10.000 It was something that John Mack noticed.

01:53:13.000 He wrote about it a lot.

01:53:14.000 They're really focused on the Earth.

01:53:16.000 You know, they care about this planet.

01:53:17.000 They don't necessarily care about us.

01:53:19.000 As individuals.

01:53:20.000 As a species.

01:53:22.000 Well, clearly they care as a species.

01:53:24.000 But they do kind of care as individuals.

01:53:25.000 The people that get picked up are oftentimes, obviously, there's cases where this doesn't happen, but they're cared for.

01:53:32.000 They're told no harm will come to you.

01:53:37.000 Barney Hill was told that.

01:53:39.000 It's a commonly repeated thing.

01:53:42.000 So they take care of people.

01:53:43.000 They give us screen memories to try to hide what they did.

01:53:46.000 They sometimes give people tours of the ship.

01:53:48.000 They seemingly care about us as individuals, but not when we start murdering each other on a massive scale.

01:53:53.000 They've never intervened in these things.

01:53:56.000 However, they have demonstrated their ability and willingness to shut down nukes.

01:54:01.000 They might intervene if we move to the point where we're not just destroying ourselves, but we're destroying the planet that they may also call home in the future.

01:54:10.000 If they are future humans, that whole care for the planet, take care of the plant, they told the kids in Zimbabwe, they told the kids in Wales during this other incident.

01:54:20.000 They tell these contactees all the time, take care of the plant, take care of the planet, but they don't seem to care about us.

01:54:25.000 And it might actually benefit them if we don't screw up this planet, either through nuking ourselves or just all of the other things we do to it because we're kind of parasitic in a way.

01:54:36.000 Well, also, if they are us in the future, we probably have to go through all this to realize the folly of our ways.

01:54:42.000 That's a good point.

01:54:43.000 Dark Knight of the Soul, kind of.

01:54:44.000 Yeah, I mean, clearly, we're getting better.

01:54:49.000 I mean, we're still horrible, but we're better today than we were during the Viking days. 0.99

01:54:53.000 We're better today than we were during the time of Genghis Khan. 0.98

01:54:56.000 We're better.

01:54:57.000 We're more civilized.

01:54:58.000 We're more peaceful.

01:54:59.000 There's less war, even though there's still war.

01:55:02.000 So it's a slow, gradual shift of consciousness that probably is going to be accelerated by technology, especially if there is some sort of a technology that connects us telepathically and allows people to read minds.

01:55:17.000 One of the things that Elon famously said about his Neuralink, he's like, you're going to be able to talk without words.

01:55:22.000 Yeah, I had a whole section in my first book about that.

01:55:25.000 The question of whether it's a technology-mediated brain-to-brain communication or if there's something about our consciousness that allows us to communicate telepathically without some sort of technology.

01:55:37.000 And I kind of, I did that.

01:55:39.000 My friend Jeff Crapel pointed this out.

01:55:41.000 He's like, I see why you did that.

01:55:43.000 You know, you're like, well, what if it is technology?

01:55:45.000 And there's a lot of studies that have shown we can communicate through some sort of computer medium.

01:55:51.000 But so many people on contactee cases who are spoken to or can speak to the visitors telepathically don't have that.

01:55:59.000 There's also all of the research of Dean Radin at Ions and all of his other studies that he's put out that show people have telepathic abilities with very, very strong p-values, statistically showing that we have this ability.

01:56:12.000 I think a lot of people have it and just don't realize, but it does seem like we're moving in that direction.

01:56:17.000 Like you were talking about the evolution of consciousness.

01:56:19.000 It seems like we're sort of moving to that, whether Neuralink has anything to do with it or any sort of computer-mediated brain-to-brain transmission.

01:56:29.000 I think we're just becoming telepathic and unlocking these abilities that have always sort of lied dormant within us.

01:56:37.000 Yeah, I've often asked the question, is it one of two things?

01:56:40.000 Is this a new emerging aspect of human consciousness?

01:56:46.000 Or is this an aspect of human consciousness that exists before verbal speech?

01:56:51.000 And then verbal speech, and then, of course, the written word, video, all that stuff.

01:56:57.000 It just became completely non-useful to us.

01:57:02.000 It's like we lost it.

01:57:04.000 It atrophied.

01:57:05.000 I mean, you had Kai Dickens on.

01:57:07.000 The telepathy tapes were hugely impactful.

01:57:11.000 And a lot of those episodes show that this is actually extremely common.

01:57:16.000 And it seems like that's kind of where we're going.

01:57:18.000 I look at that as another indication that these are us in the future, that their main form of communication is telepathy.

01:57:25.000 And we're already seemingly moving in that direction.

01:57:28.000 What do you make of the tridactyl mummies in Peru? 0.71

01:57:32.000 Can we pee first?

01:57:34.000 Yeah.

01:57:34.000 Okay.

01:57:34.000 We'll do that right now.

01:57:35.000 Sweet.

01:57:35.000 We'll be right back, folks.

01:57:37.000 Go to Jay Anderson's X page.

01:57:41.000 It's Project Unity.

01:57:43.000 Yeah, I saw he's coming on soon.

01:57:45.000 Yeah, so Jay Anderson just released this, and Jesse Michaels actually went down to Peru and actually saw those things and handled them in person.

01:57:54.000 And he said it was fucking surreal.

01:57:57.000 He said they are real creatures.

01:57:59.000 Whatever they were, it is a real thing.

01:58:01.000 And they look exactly like an alien.

01:58:04.000 He has a video that he just released, Jamie.

01:58:07.000 I think it's a video that he's releasing on that's it, right there.

01:58:17.000 So scans reveal this ancient alien-looking mummy has a baby inside of her.

01:58:22.000 That's well, that's one of them.

01:58:26.000 So these things.

01:58:28.000 Like, whatever this is.

01:58:29.000 Can we hit volume so you can hear what he's saying?

01:58:33.000 She has slightly smaller stature and slighter build than Maria, but shares the same natural mummification with skin covering parts of the body. 0.93

01:58:41.000 Her skull is elongated with large eye orbits and cranial volume comparable to Maria's.

01:58:47.000 Importantly, Montserrat's CT scans reveal that she was carrying in her abdominal cavity.

01:58:52.000 The team identified a developing fetal form being visible on the scans, a tiny tridactyl embryo with skeletal structure curled in a womb-like space.

01:59:04.000 This confirms that Montserrat was pregnant with at least one advanced fetus.

01:59:08.000 Montserrat also contains an astonishing array of metallic implants, at least 10 distinct metal implants embedded into her body.

01:59:17.000 These include four small round implants in her skull, two on each side, several in her chest and thoracic area, and others along her arm and leg bones as per the CT images.

01:59:28.000 They're described as very dense and made of rare metals, osmium and gold.

01:59:32.000 Additionally, Montserrat's chest anatomy is peculiar.

01:59:36.000 She has an expanded rib cage without a sternum, like the other tridactyls, and an interclavicle bone, an extra bone at the shoulder girdle. 0.50

01:59:44.000 Noted by researchers, her spine is continuous into the skull, again, demonstrating that cranio-cervical canal.

01:59:50.000 Look how crazy has been one of the most deeply analyzed specimens.

01:59:54.000 High-resolution 128-slice CT scans were performed, and a full 3D virtual autopsy was conducted.

02:00:01.000 The scans confirmed Montserrat's pregnancy with tridactyl features.

02:00:06.000 How strange is this?

02:00:10.000 Like, what is that?

02:00:12.000 And these are in Peru, the same place where you get the Nazca lines, the same place where you have Saxo Remon.

02:00:20.000 You have these incredible structures that defy logic, defy conventional construction methods, especially.

02:00:28.000 And like the Owlman, you know, the big petroglyph on the side of the hill that would only be appreciated from space.

02:00:35.000 There's a lot of weirdness.

02:00:37.000 There's a lot of weirdness from Peru. 0.69

02:00:39.000 Peru seems like a very extraordinary place.

02:00:42.000 And at one point in time, well, also the ancient artistic depictions of these exact beings.

02:00:51.000 There's these ancient tapestries and ancient art pieces that show these three-fingered, three-toed beings.

02:00:58.000 And this is all like a part of their folklore.

02:01:01.000 And then you have these actual creatures.

02:01:03.000 Like, that thing is 1,400 years old, I think it is.

02:01:09.000 So if that, that's the carbon date on that mummy.

02:01:13.000 So I think it's that old.

02:01:14.000 There's one that's 1200.

02:01:16.000 I think the oldest one is like 1400.

02:01:18.000 Sounds right.

02:01:19.000 Yeah.

02:01:19.000 Something like that.

02:01:20.000 But like, whatever that is, like, there's not a chance in fucking hell that people back then had the ability to fake that.

02:01:26.000 And that with that depth, you see tendon structures, ligaments.

02:01:30.000 You have a completely different skeletal structure.

02:01:31.000 No sternum, different clavicle bones.

02:01:35.000 It's fucking cranial facial anatomy.

02:01:37.000 Three fingers, three toes, which is, by the way, exactly what Lazar described, I believe, as, or some people have described as like the control.

02:01:44.000 It might not be Lazar.

02:01:45.000 The controls inside the crafts that they've observed that had these three-fingered things.

02:01:50.000 varginia brazil those things had three fingers and three toes so the question is like they saw footprints too in that case didn't they yeah Yeah.

02:01:58.000 Well, supposedly, one of the soldiers carried a hurt and injured whatever it is.

02:02:06.000 Yeah, and there were three saw it too, like an alley or something.

02:02:10.000 Yeah, that's the moment of contact documentary.

02:02:12.000 Very good.

02:02:12.000 Very good James Fox documentary.

02:02:14.000 It is.

02:02:14.000 I watched that with James Fox before he released it.

02:02:18.000 We were at the same conference.

02:02:19.000 Crazy documentary.

02:02:20.000 Yeah, it's really good.

02:02:22.000 But those things look exactly like that.

02:02:25.000 Yeah, we're described.

02:02:27.000 It'd be cool if they still had eyeballs because they said they had red eyes and doco, which would be kind of crazy.

02:02:33.000 Whatever these things are, they are the same size and the same shape.

02:02:37.000 And they're also that thing, that tridactyl thing, what does it look like?

02:02:40.000 It was exactly like a gray.

02:02:42.000 It's small.

02:02:43.000 It has a big head.

02:02:44.000 It has big eyes.

02:02:45.000 It's very thin, thin body.

02:02:47.000 Like when you look at its body, when it's curled up in the fetal position, it's no muscle.

02:02:52.000 Very small.

02:02:53.000 There's definitely, I mean, there's variation within the way these things are described.

02:02:57.000 Unfortunately, until we have, like, you know, dude got to go with Nixon to see these things in liquid.

02:03:04.000 That's like a wet dream of mine, man.

02:03:06.000 I would love to go see these things and like study them.

02:03:08.000 As a biological anthropologist, that would be the holy grail for me.

02:03:13.000 Somewhere that you could go right now on Earth, if you knew the right guy, he'd let you see that.

02:03:18.000 Absolutely, yeah.

02:03:19.000 That is crazy.

02:03:19.000 I'm sure there's many, many examples of these things.

02:03:23.000 I would argue in multiple places that I'm not allowed to go see, and it makes me mad.

02:03:30.000 But what is your take when you see these things?

02:03:32.000 Right.

02:03:33.000 So I've always been outwardly critical of them, except I guess the question is which ones and what do we mean by real?

02:03:47.000 Like these are obviously real.

02:03:48.000 These are things that aren't a fairy tale.

02:03:51.000 I mean, they make their way into the lore.

02:03:53.000 So we do have to take that in the same way that these ancient stories about things that are very similar to the UFO phenomenon.

02:03:59.000 But this is an actual physical moment.

02:04:00.000 That's what I'm saying.

02:04:01.000 That's what I'm saying.

02:04:02.000 This isn't make-believe.

02:04:03.000 This is a real thing.

02:04:05.000 I've been highly critical of the little ones.

02:04:09.000 Oh, yeah, this adult.

02:04:10.000 The fake ones.

02:04:11.000 Yeah.

02:04:11.000 But when I first started talking about these, those were conventionally understood to be real, too.

02:04:18.000 Oh, really?

02:04:18.000 I got a lot of shit for that.

02:04:20.000 I actually retired from the mummy thing.

02:04:21.000 I'm happy to come out of retirement for you, John Herb.

02:04:23.000 But I retired from the mummy thing because I was getting trolled so hard, so aggressively.

02:04:29.000 I'm like, I'm out.

02:04:30.000 I don't give a shit.

02:04:31.000 By people that thought they were real.

02:04:32.000 Yeah.

02:04:32.000 But they look fake.

02:04:33.000 The difference between those...

02:04:35.000 See, we all say that now.

02:04:36.000 We weren't saying that even three or four years ago.

02:04:39.000 Oh, I definitely was.

02:04:40.000 Wow.

02:04:40.000 Yeah.

02:04:41.000 You look at them.

02:04:41.000 It's very obvious.

02:04:42.000 But a lot of people are like, no, no, these are so real.

02:04:44.000 Those are animals.

02:04:45.000 I don't believe in Bigfoot.

02:04:47.000 And that's why I have to sort of approach this cautiously because I will admit, scientists don't do this enough.

02:04:54.000 I will admit, I haven't looked into those.

02:04:57.000 So I don't want to form an opinion about them until I have.

02:05:01.000 I have extensively looked into the small ones.

02:05:03.000 I forget what they're called.

02:05:04.000 They have cute little names and they're little dolls.

02:05:07.000 They're made out of animal bones, human bones, backward llama skulls. 0.99

02:05:12.000 They're put together.

02:05:15.000 I've been looking at these long enough that I remember when they were held together by pieces of wire and metal.

02:05:20.000 Like, they didn't even try to really hide that.

02:05:22.000 You X-rayed them, looked like, oh, Jesus Christ. 0.71

02:05:24.000 But then we moved away from that to like, oh, they're using better materials to hide the fact that they're sticking these together as little dolls.

02:05:31.000 And now, fortunately, we've at least moved past to the point where most people are just focusing on these big ones with the fingers and the toes.

02:05:43.000 And the elongated skulls.

02:05:46.000 Again, I don't want to speak to those because I haven't looked into it enough.

02:05:49.000 I don't have an informed opinion.

02:05:51.000 But the little dolls, one thing that concerns me that I think is a red flag is that the little dolls that are now conventionally understood to be fake have the same diatomaceous earth characteristics as these.

02:06:05.000 And there's also, I think if they really want to prove these are real, do more to highlight the provenience of them.

02:06:13.000 In archaeology, the way that we understand the way things are related is by doing a massive, as I mentioned earlier, very boring survey of how things are located in three-dimensional space and over time.

02:06:25.000 I think there's a problem with that, is that some of these people have lied about where they got them because they're essentially grave robbing.

02:06:30.000 They're grave robbing.

02:06:31.000 Exactly.

02:06:31.000 And that's a big problem and an ethical issue that needs to be addressed too.

02:06:36.000 But so, like, as an example, the Rising Star Cave, Homo Nalidi, they did, you know, Lee Berger, who's actually, I guess, my academic brother, because we had the same PhD advisor.

02:06:48.000 He was at Ohio State when he was my advisor, and he was at Johannesburg, University of Estroger's Rand, in Johannesburg for him.

02:06:57.000 But this Rising Star Cave, very meticulously hard to get to, you know, really hard.

02:07:03.000 He had to lose like 50 pounds to even get down in here to see his own site.

02:07:07.000 But they map it out, they study where everything is, where it comes from, and they publicly release that information.

02:07:12.000 Yeah, like this is extremely hard to get into, but we have a very deep knowledge of the provenience of all of the artifacts and the features and the remains at this site.

02:07:23.000 We're not getting that with these mummies. 1.00

02:07:25.000 And that troubles me with the issue of the diatomaceous earth being painted on, and it kind of makes it seem like they did these slits in the eyes on purpose.

02:07:36.000 To the mummies?

02:07:37.000 Yeah.

02:07:37.000 Doesn't it seem like they kind of went like this with like a pen?

02:07:41.000 Let me see it again.

02:07:41.000 Can I see some images of them?

02:07:43.000 Tridacles?

02:07:44.000 Yeah.

02:07:44.000 Yeah, the big ones.

02:07:45.000 I never saw that.

02:07:47.000 It didn't seem like that to me.

02:07:49.000 It seemed like that's their eyelids closed.

02:07:52.000 Yeah, but they wouldn't have eyelids, would they?

02:07:54.000 Well, how do we know that?

02:07:55.000 I mean, you take off the diatomaceous earth and you see, I guess.

02:07:58.000 Right, but why would we think they don't have eyelids?

02:08:00.000 Oh, no, I'm saying that maybe they do when they were alive.

02:08:04.000 Well, I mean, we see grays or what people describe as grays, but these seems a little bit different than what people describe as grays.

02:08:11.000 It seems like it's definitely intentional cranial modification.

02:08:15.000 They have all the telltale signs of.

02:08:17.000 So, actually, one of my questions on my general 6AMs.

02:08:20.000 It's not possible that they have a totally different design skull?

02:08:23.000 Oh, yeah.

02:08:24.000 Yeah, if they are some sort of extraterrestrial, absolutely.

02:08:26.000 But I'm saying, like, when, and this happens all over the world, and it happened in that region of Peru, too, that they were manipulating children's skulls that Maya did. 0.90

02:08:35.000 Unique fingerprints.

02:08:35.000 Look at that.

02:08:37.000 Yeah, like I said, I don't have an opinion about these.

02:08:40.000 But here's the question about some red tail experiments.

02:08:42.000 The modification of skulls.

02:08:43.000 Were they modifying skulls to try to emulate these people these things?

02:08:47.000 That's the question.

02:08:49.000 That's one of the actual scientific explanations for it.

02:08:52.000 There's this paper by Geertzen and Geertzen from 1995 where they interviewed people, said, why are you doing this?

02:08:58.000 Because they were still doing it long enough into modern times that we could ask them, we could interview them.

02:09:03.000 And one of the reasons is because the gods instructed them to do this.

02:09:08.000 Who are the gods?

02:09:10.000 Again, this comes back to that.

02:09:12.000 And what is the end result of this intentional cranial modification is that they have the larger, more gray alien-type skull.

02:09:20.000 So yeah, I would absolutely agree that that's probably a part of it.

02:09:26.000 I don't have an opinion about the big ones.

02:09:28.000 The little ones pissed me off, and then everybody pissed me off more when I told them they were bullshit.

02:09:33.000 Well, we should show pick people because they do look so fake.

02:09:37.000 Yeah, and they brought these out at that, you know, Mexican Congress.

02:09:41.000 And the guy who brought it out had been hoaxing with other things, right?

02:09:44.000 Didn't he have a history link?

02:09:46.000 She's got a little dress on.

02:09:50.000 And these are an extreme version.

02:09:51.000 There's some other ones that look a little better.

02:09:54.000 Yeah.

02:09:54.000 But they do look fake.

02:09:55.000 When I look at that, I'm not interested in that.

02:09:57.000 Exactly.

02:09:58.000 And that's what I was calling out back, you know, five years before.

02:10:02.000 Down a little bit, Jamie.

02:10:04.000 Below the tridactyl till you get to that one right there, like the one next to your cursor to the right.

02:10:10.000 Yeah.

02:10:10.000 That looks so rigid and stiff and fake.

02:10:12.000 That's one of those.

02:10:13.000 Like, why is it so straight and flat?

02:10:16.000 Like, that doesn't make any sense.

02:10:17.000 Why is its shoulders built like that?

02:10:19.000 That looks fake as fuck.

02:10:21.000 That looks like a doll.

02:10:22.000 But the tridactyls, now, click an image on one of the tridactyls.

02:10:26.000 I mean, these were called tridactyls, too.

02:10:27.000 That's why I was.

02:10:28.000 Right, but look at that thing. 0.97

02:10:29.000 That's weird.

02:10:30.000 That has an anatomy that's much more consistent with a living thing.

02:10:34.000 One of the criticisms was that these things couldn't move.

02:10:36.000 Like that little doll with the straight rib cage.

02:10:39.000 Like the legs, which we can identify as specific animals, they're like flipped around.

02:10:43.000 They're just stuck together.

02:10:45.000 These things couldn't walk. 0.80

02:10:46.000 There's a form follows function aspect of these that just doesn't make any sense.

02:10:49.000 And the list goes on.

02:10:50.000 I actually, in that crypto-terrestrial paper where we broke in and ate all the mushrooms, I actually published a critique of these things in that paper.

02:11:00.000 But just talking about these little ones.

02:11:02.000 I think those little ones were people trying to make copies of those things.

02:11:07.000 That could be.

02:11:07.000 Because they were probably selling them to wealthy investors or wealthy enthusiasts.

02:11:13.000 Because if one of those things were for sale and some guy from Saudi Arabia was like, I want one in my home. 1.00

02:11:19.000 And he gave them a hundred million dollars.

02:11:23.000 Like, for sure, that thing would vanish.

02:11:24.000 And then everybody's going to find out and start making more.

02:11:27.000 Right.

02:11:28.000 Right.

02:11:28.000 Of course.

02:11:29.000 And that's where you make the little stupid fake ones.

02:11:31.000 And unfortunately, that did lead to grave robbing, which is a crime and really sad.

02:11:37.000 But it can desecrate graves.

02:11:39.000 For sure.

02:11:40.000 But there's also such a small amount of excavation that it makes you ponder, like, how many of these are there right now that we have not discovered?

02:11:48.000 Like, is it possible that this is one of many that are out there in Peru right now where you can't find them?

02:11:56.000 And also, why Peru?

02:11:57.000 And why the Nazca lines? 0.71

02:11:59.000 The Nazca lines are absolutely fascinating. 0.58

02:12:03.000 It's artwork that you can only see from the sky.

02:12:05.000 Like, what motivation to people a thousand plus years ago, at least, have to make artwork that you can only see from the sky?

02:12:15.000 Yeah.

02:12:15.000 And especially if you, I mean, the obvious thing would be that they're trying to get these advanced beings that make them gum, come down from the sky and like interact with them again.

02:12:27.000 You know, like, who wouldn't?

02:12:30.000 A lot of contactees are really upset about what happens.

02:12:33.000 Willie Streeber is a great example.

02:12:35.000 This goes for a lot of people, but he felt violated.

02:12:37.000 He felt raped the first time.

02:12:39.000 And then over time, he missed them and wanted them to come back.

02:12:42.000 And that's what we find over and over.

02:12:43.000 One of the best resources currently is the Dr. Edgar Mitchell Free study that interviewed thousands of contactees and abductees.

02:12:51.000 And there's these common themes across these different cases.

02:12:55.000 And one of them is that people, 85% of people who interacted with a more human-like entity enjoyed their experience.

02:13:03.000 And that's another thing that we have to combat with the stigma and this forced shame that comes with talking about this.

02:13:09.000 And what has happened in TV and movies over the years is that we have this sense that abductions are horrifying and everyone's picked up and probed and hurt.

02:13:18.000 And that does happen.

02:13:19.000 But most people, based on what contactees actually say, it was a benign or enjoyable experience.

02:13:26.000 Well, they're probably terrified because it's so strange.

02:13:29.000 It probably freaks you out.

02:13:30.000 It's the ontological shock aspect.

02:13:32.000 Oh, it has to be.

02:13:32.000 But then what I also found is that with repeated contact, once that ontological shock goes away, they're like, whoa, that was kind of cool, actually.

02:13:39.000 I wish I could have more of that.

02:13:41.000 That makes sense.

02:13:42.000 And then people come to enjoy it, you know?

02:13:44.000 That makes sense.

02:13:46.000 You know, I talked about this on Jesse Michael's show and I talked about it here.

02:13:49.000 I had a very strange interview.

02:13:50.000 That was a great interview, by the way.

02:13:51.000 Thank you.

02:13:51.000 It was cool.

02:13:52.000 I love Jesse.

02:13:52.000 He's awesome.

02:13:53.000 He's awesome.

02:13:53.000 And he's the best.

02:13:54.000 Can we talk about your dream, too?

02:13:56.000 That's what I was just going to talk about.

02:13:57.000 Oh, no, shit.

02:13:58.000 Yeah, that's why I said I talked about it on Jesse and I talked about it here.

02:14:01.000 That dream was the most realistic dream I've ever had in my life.

02:14:04.000 It is a problem, and that dream was a couple months ago now.

02:14:07.000 And I think any recounting of that dream is essentially me recounting my recounting of the dream.

02:14:14.000 It gets weird.

02:14:15.000 But what I do remember was it was the most vivid dream I have ever had in my life.

02:14:22.000 And that I could not go back to sleep, which is really rare.

02:14:26.000 I am a good sleeper.

02:14:28.000 I'm always go, go, go.

02:14:30.000 And by the time it's time to go to bed, I fucking crash.

02:14:33.000 I'm easy to.

02:14:34.000 So for me to not be able to go back to sleep was so strange.

02:14:37.000 I mean, wide awake, just lying in bed.

02:14:41.000 I mean, fully awake for an hour and waiting for it to dissipate.

02:14:45.000 And I'm like, this isn't going away.

02:14:47.000 I'm just going to go work out.

02:14:49.000 So I just went to the gym and just tried to think about what just happened.

02:14:54.000 Why was that so real?

02:14:56.000 One of the things about it was they were shocking me and then laughing.

02:15:02.000 They were trying to relax me.

02:15:04.000 They were trying to get me to at least my perception of it in the dream was they were trying to get me to calm down from the shock of interacting with these things that aren't human.

02:15:18.000 They were human-like.

02:15:20.000 They almost seemed like their skin coloration was like us, but like maybe a little more tan, like a little more, not tan, but like a yellow.

02:15:31.000 Yeah, more yellow than tan.

02:15:32.000 And they had, it looked like clothing, but the clothing was the same color as their skin. 0.80

02:15:38.000 But the clothing wasn't distinctive.

02:15:40.000 It was like almost like a rash guard that they were wearing, and they were very slender.

02:15:45.000 And what's a rash guard?

02:15:47.000 A rash guard is like what surfers wear.

02:15:50.000 You know, like they wear, it's like a stretchy material that's skin tight, it goes on your body, and it keeps you from getting scratched up by stuff.

02:16:00.000 It keeps you from getting rashes.

02:16:01.000 You know, you wear it on your legs.

02:16:02.000 You ever see surfers do it?

02:16:03.000 Jiu-Jitsu guys wear it when they roll.

02:16:05.000 Okay.

02:16:05.000 We wear rash guards.

02:16:07.000 So it's show them what a rash guard looks like.

02:16:10.000 And that's they had a whole suit of that?

02:16:14.000 That's what it looks like.

02:16:15.000 So that's a jack guy with a rash guard on. 0.93

02:16:17.000 These things were not jacked, and there was no creases.

02:16:20.000 There was no lines that indicated that it was cloth.

02:16:23.000 They had a humanoid form, like arms, legs, but very thin.

02:16:26.000 Very thin.

02:16:27.000 Like Michael Jackson-like.

02:16:29.000 Like super slender, like genderless. 1.00

02:16:30.000 Late Michael Jackson.

02:16:31.000 Genderless Michael Jackson, like the old days. 1.00

02:16:33.000 When he, you know, towards the end.

02:16:36.000 Really thin.

02:16:36.000 Yeah.

02:16:37.000 Like really thin.

02:16:38.000 And I had no sense of what they felt like men to me.

02:16:44.000 Maybe it was because the way they were joking with, they were like, ah!

02:16:47.000 And they're like, just joking around.

02:16:49.000 Which is a very male thing.

02:16:50.000 You wouldn't expect a nurturing female. 1.00

02:16:53.000 Maybe a fun chick. 1.00

02:16:54.000 Yeah.

02:16:55.000 Like, woo.

02:16:56.000 But whatever it was, they were talking to me without talking to me.

02:17:01.000 And there was some sort of communication that I was trying to absorb where they were telling me to relax.

02:17:07.000 Did they telepathically?

02:17:08.000 Are they moving their mouths?

02:17:10.000 No, they weren't moving their mouth, but they were able to smile at me, which is what they did when they, but I don't remember.

02:17:15.000 I don't even really remember teeth.

02:17:17.000 I just remember it being so weird, so weird, that them scaring me and going, ha, just fucking around. 0.62

02:17:26.000 Like, was like, I'm like, I got it.

02:17:28.000 I was like, okay, I get it.

02:17:29.000 You want me to calm down?

02:17:30.000 And then they were telling me, just relax, just relax and try to take this in.

02:17:34.000 And it didn't last for very long, I don't think.

02:17:37.000 Dreams are hard to discuss.

02:17:38.000 After that, like when they were saying take this in, were they talking about being there in the environment or were they communicating some distinct impression that this was a first meeting?

02:17:50.000 That's what it felt like.

02:17:51.000 Like, maybe we'll see you again.

02:17:52.000 Breaking down somewhere.

02:17:53.000 Maybe we won't.

02:17:54.000 But I want to let you know that, like, if you wanted to introduce someone to a life form from somewhere else and you wanted them to have prolonged exposure to it, I would imagine you'd want to do it briefly and shockingly where it felt really weird.

02:18:09.000 And then at the end of it, they're not even sure if it really happened at all.

02:18:12.000 And then slowly, over a long period of time, when the person gets to adapt and they make a decision, it's time.

02:18:19.000 It's just like what we were talking about with the ontological shock.

02:18:22.000 Get past that.

02:18:22.000 Yes.

02:18:23.000 And then you can move on with whatever is.

02:18:25.000 Because it was very brief.

02:18:26.000 Very, very shocking and very brief.

02:18:29.000 Well, I mean, was it though?

02:18:30.000 Because when you're in a dream state, time and space kind of get manipulated anyway.

02:18:35.000 Isn't it possible that you were actually interacting for a longer time?

02:18:39.000 Or do you mean just from start to finish was like, here we are.

02:18:43.000 I'm going to fuck with you for a little bit and then it's over.

02:18:45.000 Well, that's what it felt like when I woke up.

02:18:47.000 So when I woke up, it felt like it happened so quickly and then it was over.

02:18:52.000 But I don't know.

02:18:53.000 You know, I don't know.

02:18:53.000 I mean, I was asleep for, it was like three in the morning.

02:18:56.000 So I was probably asleep for, I probably went to bed at like 11, something like that.

02:19:00.000 So I wasn't asleep for very long.

02:19:03.000 Maybe I went to bed a little later.

02:19:05.000 I don't remember.

02:19:06.000 But what I do remember was the shock of it was, it was different than any other dream I'd ever had.

02:19:12.000 Where it was like, like, this is, this is a real thing.

02:19:17.000 And it, I was in a corridor, and the corridor was weirdly lit.

02:19:22.000 Like, not lit in any way like, oh, there's a light and the light is casting light.

02:19:27.000 It was like the, it was weird.

02:19:29.000 The walls and ceiling.

02:19:30.000 But it felt not normal.

02:19:33.000 It felt like some completely different way of lighting things.

02:19:37.000 I mean, I will mention just from doing a bunch of research on this that one of the most commonly described things about people being in UFOs is the light.

02:19:47.000 They describe the light emanating from the walls, the ceiling, everywhere without like a point of light.

02:19:53.000 Did it feel like that?

02:19:54.000 Exactly.

02:19:55.000 Yeah.

02:19:56.000 But it almost.

02:19:57.000 Was there a curvature to the hallway at all?

02:20:00.000 There was.

02:20:00.000 It almost had like an organic aspect to it.

02:20:02.000 It was fun.

02:20:03.000 People say that about UFOs, too.

02:20:04.000 Oh, really?

02:20:05.000 Yeah.

02:20:06.000 That almost seems like a living entity unto itself.

02:20:09.000 Yeah, well, I mean, organic, like almost like I was in a cave or something like that.

02:20:12.000 It was a part of Earth.

02:20:14.000 It was weird.

02:20:15.000 It was really weird.

02:20:17.000 And it was really vivid.

02:20:19.000 Like the beings were very vivid.

02:20:21.000 I can't remember how many of them there were.

02:20:24.000 I think they shouldn't.

02:20:25.000 Three or four.

02:20:26.000 I don't think you should write it off as just a dream.

02:20:29.000 Like, I mean.

02:20:30.000 Well, most likely it was just a dream.

02:20:32.000 Because I was just.

02:20:33.000 But what is just a dream?

02:20:34.000 That's the question.

02:20:34.000 That's where it gets weird.

02:20:36.000 Like, I have come to think that that is almost the baseline reality more than this.

02:20:44.000 Oh, boy.

02:20:45.000 Yeah.

02:20:46.000 Sorry.

02:20:47.000 That's kind of why I wanted to talk about it.

02:20:48.000 Oh, you just cracked me.

02:20:51.000 Well, maybe.

02:20:52.000 So I had a really insane experience in 2022 that forced me to start thinking about what this is, what this physical reality is.

02:21:03.000 Because I was shown 2022.

02:21:05.000 I call it a mini abduction.

02:21:07.000 I was taken up.

02:21:09.000 I was at a UFO conference.

02:21:10.000 Actually, the same one where I was watching that with James Fox before it came out, the Virginia case.

02:21:16.000 So I was taken up to this room that no one was in.

02:21:18.000 I was taken on the balcony.

02:21:20.000 I wasn't allowed to leave.

02:21:22.000 By who?

02:21:23.000 A woman who I knew, but loosely.

02:21:28.000 Basically, I was downstairs.

02:21:30.000 She saw, or they saw through her, because this gets really weird, that I was out of money.

02:21:34.000 I was trying to get a beer at the bar for like 12 bucks or whatever they charge you with these things.

02:21:38.000 It was a Halloween dance party.

02:21:40.000 This was October 14th, 2022.

02:21:42.000 I was out of money.

02:21:44.000 She comes up and says, hey, I have a key to the VIP room.

02:21:47.000 We had just come down from there where they hosted a meet and greet with the speakers.

02:21:50.000 I was one of the speakers.

02:21:52.000 So we went up there to get beers, stuff in my pockets.

02:21:55.000 We're going to bring some to our friends.

02:21:56.000 They didn't have to pay $12 for a beer.

02:21:58.000 And then she's like, well, you can't go.

02:22:00.000 My friend Eric wants to talk to you.

02:22:02.000 I was like, who's Eric?

02:22:03.000 Don't worry, you'll like him.

02:22:04.000 Just kept saying that over and over.

02:22:05.000 Don't worry, you'll like him.

02:22:06.000 You'll like him.

02:22:07.000 So at some point, we end up on the balcony and I'm just sitting there.

02:22:10.000 I give up.

02:22:11.000 I'm like, fine.

02:22:12.000 I guess I'm just waiting for this Eric guy, whoever the hell that is.

02:22:15.000 So eventually, Eric comes in, pulls his chair up right into me.

02:22:20.000 Like his knee is in my dick. 0.54

02:22:22.000 Like straight up, right here.

02:22:24.000 I start to get that.

02:22:25.000 I'm very much fight in the fight or flight thing.

02:22:29.000 And I'm like, you know, like, who the fuck's this guy?

02:22:31.000 Total stranger.

02:22:32.000 Never seen him in my life.

02:22:33.000 And his face is right here.

02:22:35.000 He says, I sense that you're angry about this, but I need to be this close for this to work.

02:22:40.000 And then it just all went away.

02:22:44.000 Perfectly fine.

02:22:46.000 And they tell me something that was that same thing that they did to you in that dream.

02:22:52.000 Something that they knew would shock me and make me pay attention.

02:22:56.000 So about two weeks before this, I had been washing dishes and I just decided I wanted to quit all of this.

02:23:01.000 I was sick of doing TV shoots and podcasts.

02:23:03.000 I just, I was exhausted.

02:23:04.000 I wanted to be home with my family.

02:23:06.000 That was it.

02:23:06.000 That was just a thought.

02:23:08.000 Just while you were washing?

02:23:09.000 Washing dishes.

02:23:10.000 My wife's right behind me. 0.98

02:23:11.000 Didn't tell her anything.

02:23:12.000 Very next thing he says is, we know you've been thinking about quitting lately and we'd really prefer you not do that yet.

02:23:20.000 Complete stranger.

02:23:21.000 I'd never seen this guy in my life.

02:23:23.000 And he knows a thought in my head while washing dishes from two weeks ago.

02:23:27.000 Privately.

02:23:28.000 And I was just like, how could you possibly know that?

02:23:32.000 And they said, I'm going to use they because they used they.

02:23:35.000 I wasn't talking to this guy.

02:23:36.000 I was talking through some sort of TV show entity or entities through him.

02:23:42.000 And they said, once you know who we are, you'll know how we know that.

02:23:47.000 And I never had a telepathic moment in my life, but I thought, future humans, that's all I could come up with because like, this is what I'm doing.

02:23:55.000 They didn't answer the question, but they did say, so you know how we did that?

02:23:58.000 And I just go, uh-huh.

02:24:00.000 Like, it doesn't fucking answer the question.

02:24:01.000 But in that moment, it placated me enough to move on.

02:24:05.000 And there was a number of things that transpired.

02:24:09.000 We're out on this balcony.

02:24:12.000 I'm in shock.

02:24:14.000 I'm like, what the hell is going on here?

02:24:15.000 How does this complete stranger know my thoughts?

02:24:18.000 The conversation evolved.

02:24:19.000 I was allowed to ask questions.

02:24:20.000 They're like, we know you're frustrated.

02:24:22.000 We know you're upset with this.

02:24:23.000 We'd really like you to keep going.

02:24:24.000 Is there anything you need?

02:24:25.000 Is there anything we can help with?

02:24:27.000 I was like, no, I'm quite happy in general.

02:24:29.000 I'm just exhausted.

02:24:30.000 I don't want to do this anymore.

02:24:31.000 Like, yeah, we get that.

02:24:32.000 We get that.

02:24:33.000 We get that.

02:24:34.000 And then I was allowed to ask questions.

02:24:36.000 I asked three different questions.

02:24:38.000 And people started to come back to this room because the party was wrapping up downstairs and they were starting to come back to the VIP room where all the free booze was.

02:24:45.000 So that makes sense.

02:24:47.000 And we're out on this balcony.

02:24:49.000 These three women come out at one point. 0.98

02:24:51.000 And this man who now is like just right here, like eyes right here.

02:24:59.000 I can't move anymore.

02:25:00.000 Like I lost the ability to turn my head.

02:25:02.000 I'm just like laser focused.

02:25:04.000 Said, can you close the door behind you?

02:25:07.000 That was it.

02:25:07.000 And these three women turned in perfect unison, walked back in, closed the door.

02:25:11.000 Nobody came out the rest of the time we were out there.

02:25:14.000 Eventually got to the point where they're like, we came here because we need to put three things in your brain for some future time or times.

02:25:20.000 I forget which they said.

02:25:23.000 Do we have your permission to do that?

02:25:25.000 And over the course of this interaction, I started to remember them.

02:25:30.000 And I started to feel like a little bitch about complaining about being tired, traveling, hotels, flights, you know?

02:25:36.000 And I was like, oh, that's right.

02:25:39.000 I know you.

02:25:40.000 I know who you are.

02:25:41.000 Not that guy.

02:25:42.000 I'd never seen him in my life.

02:25:43.000 But I know you and there's a familiarity.

02:25:46.000 And this was like the breaking down of me to be able to get past that, to do the things that needed to be done.

02:25:53.000 They told me what would happen.

02:25:54.000 They said that I would continue looking, my eyes would be open, but this darkness would come from top to bottom.

02:26:00.000 And they would put things in my brain and I would see it coming in, but I wouldn't have access to it once they were done.

02:26:07.000 Do you agree?

02:26:07.000 They're very polite, extremely polite.

02:26:10.000 Free will was conserved.

02:26:11.000 Do you agree to this?

02:26:12.000 Are you okay with this?

02:26:13.000 And again, at that point, I remembered them.

02:26:15.000 I recognized them.

02:26:16.000 I was like, yes, absolutely.

02:26:18.000 I agree to this.

02:26:19.000 That's exactly what happened.

02:26:20.000 Eyes went dark, still wide open.

02:26:22.000 Eyes went dark.

02:26:23.000 And I see this massive, fast stream of information just going straight into my brain.

02:26:28.000 It was exhausting.

02:26:29.000 It didn't hurt, but it was like really overwhelming.

02:26:32.000 I have no idea how long they were doing this.

02:26:35.000 Did you see it going into your brain?

02:26:37.000 I could see.

02:26:37.000 It was like, I could see.

02:26:40.000 I don't remember it, but I could see and understand the moments because, and it wasn't just me.

02:26:46.000 Like at one point, this conversation switched from being vocal to telepathic.

02:26:51.000 Like we just started communicating telepathically.

02:26:53.000 It was so seamless that I didn't even really notice it happened.

02:26:56.000 And eventually I'm like, wait, we're not moving our mouths.

02:26:58.000 We're just talking with our brains.

02:27:01.000 But the woman who brought me up there in the first place was standing on my left with her hand on my shoulder. 1.00

02:27:06.000 She would occasionally go, did you get that?

02:27:07.000 Did you see that?

02:27:09.000 That was important.

02:27:10.000 Did you get that?

02:27:10.000 So she was watching it too and saw it coming in as it was coming through this individual in front of me.

02:27:18.000 And I could see it at that moment.

02:27:19.000 I'd be like, uh-huh.

02:27:20.000 Uh-huh.

02:27:21.000 Uh-huh.

02:27:22.000 Like, I understood it.

02:27:23.000 It all comes in.

02:27:25.000 I have no idea how long I was in that mesmerized state.

02:27:29.000 But after they finished, that entire room had five times more people in it.

02:27:35.000 There was like probably 20 people in this room all looking at us like, what the fuck is happening to masters out there?

02:27:41.000 You know, like, what is going on?

02:27:43.000 They lifted me out of this sight return from bottom to top, the opposite of what happened before.

02:27:49.000 And I stand up, turn, walk through this room.

02:27:52.000 It felt like my head was a bowling ball.

02:27:54.000 Like I could barely even lift my head.

02:27:57.000 And this woman, I think one of the ones that came out when we were on the balcony, put her hand on my shoulder, said, Are you okay?

02:28:03.000 I was just like, uh-huh, uh-huh.

02:28:05.000 Walked past her.

02:28:07.000 Fortunately, I was on that same floor on the fourth floor of this hotel.

02:28:10.000 Walked down, lay back on the bed with my feet still on the floor, all my clothes on, and just slept in that position for about 13 hours.

02:28:18.000 What?

02:28:19.000 Didn't wake up at all.

02:28:20.000 And when I woke up, I started crying uncontrollably.

02:28:23.000 Like my, my, I could not stop crying.

02:28:26.000 I wasn't sad.

02:28:26.000 I wasn't scared.

02:28:27.000 I had a memory of what happened the night before, but it was kind of fuzzy.

02:28:32.000 And then as it started to come back more and more and more, I started to be like, oh, shit, like that, that was real.

02:28:40.000 You know, my first thought was like, oh, that wasn't real.

02:28:42.000 And then I was allowed to remember all of it.

02:28:45.000 Everything before they put me in that state is like crystal clear in my mind.

02:28:49.000 And I wrote it all down not long after that, just to make sure I had, you know, so it wasn't me recounting, me recounting like you were saying.

02:28:57.000 So there was actually like a written transcript of how everything happened.

02:29:01.000 I should probably have done that.

02:29:04.000 I should have probably done that, but I know that my recollection of it is pretty accurate, my recollection, my memory.

02:29:10.000 And I know that it was very brief.

02:29:13.000 Like the encounter seemed very brief.

02:29:15.000 It might have gone longer than I think it did.

02:29:17.000 Well, they might have done the same thing to you.

02:29:19.000 That's why I mention it.

02:29:20.000 They might have done the same thing where you weren't necessarily allowed to remember the things that were done.

02:29:26.000 Like they told me that we're going to do this.

02:29:29.000 Are you okay with it?

02:29:30.000 And then missing time.

02:29:31.000 I have no idea how long they were doing that.

02:29:33.000 And then in a dream state, like it could have been dreams often skew time regardless.

02:29:38.000 But maybe if, let's just say hypothetically, you were on a craft, they were breaking you down in the same way they did me to try to get you, whether now or in the future, like you said.

02:29:49.000 It might have been an initial encounter where there's something more going to happen later.

02:29:53.000 But maybe there was more to it that they just didn't let you have conscious memories of.

02:29:57.000 Like they told me I wouldn't remember what they put in my brain and I don't.

02:30:01.000 Just say, this is what blows my mind, man.

02:30:03.000 This is fucking insane.

02:30:04.000 It's my brain.

02:30:05.000 Right.

02:30:06.000 They put things in there.

02:30:07.000 The ability that they can even do that in the first place is nuts.

02:30:11.000 But I don't have access to it.

02:30:14.000 It's really wild.

02:30:16.000 How do you know it's in there then?

02:30:18.000 I watched it come in.

02:30:19.000 I know it went in.

02:30:20.000 And they told me that it was going to come in.

02:30:22.000 And I saw it happen.

02:30:23.000 But then once it's in.

02:30:25.000 Right.

02:30:25.000 But does that make any sense?

02:30:27.000 Like, think about it.

02:30:27.000 If they're giving you information, what is the point in giving someone information that they can't access?

02:30:32.000 Well, that's what they said, though.

02:30:33.000 They said, for time or times in the future.

02:30:36.000 It's time released.

02:30:37.000 It's time stamped.

02:30:37.000 At some point, whatever that was that they thought was so damn important to mini abduct me at this conference, fuck with me for about five months afterwards, is going to come out at some point.

02:30:47.000 Have you ever considered the possibility someone dropped acid into your beer?

02:30:51.000 Yeah, I have.

02:30:54.000 Because that would be such a cruel thing to do to someone at a UFO conference.

02:30:58.000 Problem.

02:30:58.000 And then fuck with them and say, sit down, look in my eyes.

02:31:01.000 I'm going to give you information now.

02:31:02.000 You're like, oh my God, it's coming.

02:31:03.000 Information's coming.

02:31:04.000 It is.

02:31:05.000 Problem is, I've done acid over 200 times, so I know exactly what that's.

02:31:10.000 Maybe it was a flashback.

02:31:11.000 That's what they say.

02:31:12.000 That was the thing they always try.

02:31:13.000 I never heard of one fucking person getting a flashback, by the way.

02:31:16.000 I know.

02:31:16.000 I feel robbed, dude.

02:31:17.000 Like, I was told we crack our back and we're going to give you.

02:31:19.000 You're going to get a flashback when you drive in your car, man, and you fucking run into a bus full of kids.

02:31:24.000 It's like how they told us everybody was going to give us free drugs on the playground.

02:31:28.000 Nobody ever gave me free drugs.

02:31:29.000 No drugs.

02:31:30.000 No, it was not.

02:31:32.000 I'd actually only had two beers the entire night.

02:31:34.000 I was completely sober.

02:31:35.000 So it was some kind of experience that was very anomalous.

02:31:40.000 Extremely, yeah.

02:31:41.000 And so here's another aspect of it.

02:31:42.000 They knew my future.

02:31:43.000 They knew everything about me.

02:31:45.000 They knew my thoughts.

02:31:46.000 That's how they broke me down.

02:31:48.000 And they even knew where I was going to be the next day.

02:31:50.000 They saw that it fucked me up and I was not doing well.

02:31:53.000 Like, I wasn't crying because I was sad or scared or anything.

02:31:55.000 It was just a physiological response to whatever they did.

02:31:58.000 I'm walking down through the main corridor to give a book to a friend of mine, John Dover, Navajo Ranger.

02:32:05.000 And that same guy comes around the corner, comes down, puts his hand on my shoulder, says, are you okay?

02:32:12.000 I was not okay.

02:32:13.000 But I go, oh.

02:32:14.000 And they fixed me somehow.

02:32:18.000 His touch on my shoulder released all of whatever was messing me up.

02:32:23.000 They knew where I would be at that exact moment for him to come there.

02:32:27.000 He wasn't part of this conference.

02:32:28.000 He had nothing to do with this.

02:32:29.000 He was used as some sort of vessel or some sort of medium for this end.

02:32:35.000 Whatever it means, I don't know because the things haven't come out of my brain yet.

02:32:38.000 But they are time stamped for the future.

02:32:40.000 I completely believe you.

02:32:42.000 It's not a belief, but it's not a belief.

02:32:44.000 They did it in a way where other people were involved, so I didn't even get to pretend.

02:32:49.000 Don, what I'm saying, what I'm saying is I'm saying I believe your story from you.

02:32:54.000 I have no information on it, obviously, other than you telling me.

02:32:57.000 I believe you.

02:32:58.000 It sounds like this is a real experience.

02:33:01.000 But most people hearing something like this will automatically go, get the fuck out of here.

02:33:08.000 And they did.

02:33:08.000 But I want those people to imagine what it would be like if that happened to you.

02:33:14.000 For me, it's easy because mine was in a dream.

02:33:17.000 And I'll tell you it's a dream.

02:33:19.000 I think it was a dream.

02:33:20.000 It was the most vivid dream I've ever had, but it was a dream.

02:33:23.000 It was really weird.

02:33:24.000 I couldn't shake it.

02:33:25.000 It really freaked me out.

02:33:26.000 I had to talk about it the moment I got on a podcast next.

02:33:29.000 I was like, this is something that I have to bring up right away.

02:33:31.000 And thank you for doing that, by the way.

02:33:33.000 It takes bravery to talk about this.

02:33:34.000 But I was talking to Brett Weinstein, who's an evolutionary biologist.

02:33:37.000 Like, it's not the topic to talk about.

02:33:39.000 But I'm like, I have to tell you this because it was one of the weirdest things that have, I've experienced a lot of weird shit.

02:33:45.000 I've had a weird life.

02:33:47.000 That was the weirdest.

02:33:49.000 It was weird.

02:33:50.000 It took me a year to talk about this.

02:33:52.000 I want to.

02:33:54.000 Let me finish here.

02:33:54.000 Oh, sorry.

02:33:55.000 I didn't know you were.

02:33:56.000 This is what I. For people that are very skeptical, I want you to imagine yourself in a position where something like this happens to you.

02:34:05.000 You're a regular guy.

02:34:06.000 You're a mechanic for Chevrolet, whatever you are.

02:34:09.000 And this thing happens to you.

02:34:11.000 And what do you do now?

02:34:13.000 What do you do with this?

02:34:15.000 And who the fuck is going to believe you?

02:34:17.000 You wouldn't have believed you.

02:34:18.000 So why would you, you don't even want to tell people.

02:34:21.000 It's that crazy.

02:34:23.000 And if these things are happening, they're not happening to 7 billion people, right?

02:34:28.000 They're happening to select individuals for whatever unknown reason all over the place.

02:34:36.000 And if that is happening to one in a million, one in a hundred thousand, whatever it is, over time, these people have all these similar stories.

02:34:46.000 I get being skeptical.

02:34:48.000 I get it.

02:34:49.000 I'm a skeptical person with a lot of stuff.

02:34:52.000 I go back and forth.

02:34:53.000 I'm a believer.

02:34:54.000 And then I'm like, shut up.

02:34:56.000 I'm with you.

02:34:58.000 But you got to imagine what you would do if that happened to you.

02:35:03.000 If these are unique experiences.

02:35:05.000 That's a great point.

02:35:06.000 Unique experiences, totally novel experiences that most people don't have.

02:35:12.000 Trying to describe them.

02:35:13.000 And everybody who I've ever talked to, including Travis Walton, who's, by the way, very believable.

02:35:18.000 Yeah.

02:35:18.000 Very believable.

02:35:20.000 The way they describe it, it has that weight to it.

02:35:25.000 Like, I know no one's going to fucking believe me.

02:35:27.000 I know this is crazy, but I have to tell you.

02:35:29.000 I have to tell you that this happened.

02:35:31.000 Imagine being Travis Walton.

02:35:33.000 That's what I want people to think about.

02:35:34.000 The people that are very skeptical.

02:35:36.000 I'm really glad you brought that up because a lot of people don't think about that part.

02:35:41.000 How hard it is, not just to have some crazy shit like that happen, but how hard it is to then talk about it and subject yourself to the ridicule and the scorn that comes with it.

02:35:51.000 Of course.

02:35:51.000 And the possibility that you might just be some disinformation artist, just some bullshit artist that's sent down here to muddy up the narrative.

02:35:58.000 Absolutely.

02:35:59.000 Absolutely.

02:35:59.000 And if it hadn't, if I hadn't, yeah, I don't know.

02:36:04.000 I have thought about that.

02:36:05.000 Like, what if, you know, there's some sort of mind control thing that the government has or whatever.

02:36:11.000 Have you ever heard the recordings of Betty and Barney Hill?

02:36:14.000 Yeah.

02:36:15.000 Yeah.

02:36:15.000 Jamie, see if you can find those.

02:36:17.000 Yeah, they're kind of trippy.

02:36:18.000 Trippy.

02:36:19.000 I don't think that's the case in this situation because of the way it happened, how it happened, their uber politeness, and the fact that I was allowed to leave my body and see and remember things that I normally wouldn't.

02:36:34.000 Well, also, taken in the context of who you are, the time we live in, Betty and Barney Hill, I believe it was in the 1950s.

02:36:40.000 They're an interracial couple in New England.

02:36:42.000 So they have a lot of anxiety just on that.

02:36:46.000 Imagine being a pioneering interracial couple in the 1950s.

02:36:50.000 I mean, the fucking racism they must have experienced must have been.

02:36:53.000 So the level of anxiety that they must have slept with, thinking that KKK is going to show up at any point in time and burn a fucking cross on their lawn.

02:36:59.000 So you've got all that too.

02:37:01.000 Then there's a completely novel experience where no one has talked about this before.

02:37:06.000 Two of the first people to talk about it.

02:37:07.000 They are the OGs.

02:37:08.000 So this is a tape of Dr. Benjamin Simon and patient Barney Hill.

02:37:13.000 Play this.

02:37:17.000 It's right over my right.

02:37:21.000 Got it.

02:37:25.000 What is it?

02:37:31.000 And I try to maintain control so Betty cannot tell I am scared.

02:37:43.000 God, I was scared.

02:37:45.000 It's all right.

02:37:46.000 You can go right on.

02:37:47.000 Experience it.

02:37:49.000 It will not hurt you now.

02:37:52.000 I've got to get my gun.

02:37:55.000 Oh! 0.60

02:37:57.000 Oh my God!

02:38:02.000 That's awesome.

02:38:03.000 That's intense.

02:38:04.000 This is 1961.

02:38:08.000 Wild.

02:38:10.000 And like you say, you know, that's actually, I haven't thought about that.

02:38:12.000 I did a whole case study on Betty and Barney Hill in my second book.

02:38:16.000 I hadn't even really thought about that.

02:38:17.000 Like, it's already hard to talk about stuff.

02:38:19.000 They're the OGs.

02:38:20.000 They're the first one.

02:38:22.000 Interracial couple coming out publicly describing these horrific events. 1.00

02:38:26.000 Also, these events in 1961 when no one had heard anything about it.

02:38:30.000 There's so many compounding factors that make me want to give them even more credit for being honest about it.

02:38:38.000 And I mean, that's what's important.

02:38:40.000 It was really hard for me to talk about this.

02:38:42.000 It really fucked me up for like, I'm going to say five months, but it was way more than that.

02:38:46.000 And the reason I bring this up is because of your dream and the shock factor and what it means for conceptualizing reality, this physical reality, versus what we write off as being dreams, a dream reality.

02:38:59.000 I have come to think that that is baseline, that consciousness is fundamental.

02:39:04.000 It's foundational.

02:39:06.000 And this physical reality is built off of it.

02:39:08.000 And I've heard a lot of other scientists talking about that lately.

02:39:11.000 So I think one of the questions that gets me is, why does everything dream?

02:39:15.000 Everything.

02:39:16.000 Every living organism dreams.

02:39:19.000 And it almost seems like we're here for the universe to learn about itself and to have these experiences because at source, there's nothing.

02:39:27.000 There's just love and energy.

02:39:27.000 That's it.

02:39:28.000 And I've gotten to experience that.

02:39:29.000 I was thinking in the shower the other day that I feel lucky because I've gotten to have near-death experiences without actually dying because it's a very similar thing.

02:39:36.000 And I go to that same place that people describe in these near-death experiences.

02:39:40.000 That's real.

02:39:41.000 That feels the most real.

02:39:42.000 But you don't get to have divorces and people dying and car crashes and the shit that makes this life suck.

02:39:49.000 But also being the only way that the universe can learn about itself.

02:39:53.000 And then every night, what do we do?

02:39:55.000 We empty the hippocampus and upload that information.

02:39:58.000 Near-death experiences, people describe that review, the life review.

02:40:04.000 So we upload it every night.

02:40:05.000 And at the end of your life, it's like, upload the whole thing all at once, go to a different body, and the next time.

02:40:11.000 Wow.

02:40:12.000 I think your dream is just as real as anything we experience here, if not more real.

02:40:17.000 Let's end it with that.

02:40:19.000 Thank you.

02:40:19.000 Thank you, man.

02:40:20.000 That was a lot of fun.

02:40:21.000 This has been a lot of fun.

02:40:22.000 Can I tell you one more thing?

02:40:22.000 You can cut this out if you want.

02:40:24.000 No, you can leave it in.

02:40:25.000 One of my favorite things about this lately has been how many comedians I get to talk to.

02:40:31.000 Like the last interview, like I did an interview with Mark Gagnon.

02:40:35.000 I did an interview with Dave Foley from back in the day, News Radio.

02:40:40.000 And I grew up watching.

02:40:41.000 That was one of my favorite shows back in the day.

02:40:43.000 Dave used to make fun of me when I was into UFOs back in the news radio days.

02:40:46.000 Not anymore, man.

02:40:47.000 Not anymore.

02:40:47.000 He's all in.

02:40:48.000 He's super into it.

02:40:49.000 I love it.

02:40:50.000 Oh, it's great, man.

02:40:51.000 Like, I don't know.

02:40:52.000 Dan Saint-Germain, Sean O'Donnell, like, just a lot of the people I've been talking to lately are comedians.

02:40:57.000 And I actually wanted to ask you why?

02:40:59.000 Why are so many comedians into this UFO phenomenon?

02:41:03.000 I think more than like most other genres or professions.

02:41:05.000 Well, most comedians are into interesting things, and comedians don't have to worry about the stigma of being thought of as a fool.

02:41:12.000 We're professional fools.

02:41:14.000 You know, if someone says I'm a moron, I'm like, okay, like, what do you want me to do?

02:41:19.000 This is how smart I am.

02:41:20.000 This is how smart I am.

02:41:21.000 I'm exactly this smart.

02:41:22.000 I'm not pretending to be any smarter than I am.

02:41:24.000 If you think I'm a moron, that's fine.

02:41:26.000 I don't care.

02:41:27.000 Like, my reputational integrity doesn't depend on whether or not I'm an idiot or whether you think I'm an idiot.

02:41:33.000 It doesn't matter.

02:41:34.000 So, if I think something, I can just talk about it.

02:41:37.000 So, like, if my dream, if I was a political correspondent and wanted people to believe me, I probably wouldn't tell that dream.

02:41:43.000 I'd probably just tell my friends, like, that was fucking weird.

02:41:46.000 And I'd leave it alone.

02:41:47.000 I wouldn't treat it as like something that I needed to get out there.

02:41:50.000 You have the freedom to tell the story and express it.

02:41:53.000 I'm a clown.

02:41:53.000 You know, I mean, comedians also are really observant.

02:41:57.000 Well, we like interesting things.

02:41:59.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:41:59.000 And you observe those interesting things and can talk about them in interesting ways.

02:42:03.000 Most people like interesting things, but most people are saddled down by a structure.

02:42:07.000 And that structure could be the office politics in the place that you work.

02:42:12.000 It could be whatever your cultural or whatever your political ideology is, whatever your thing is.

02:42:19.000 Like you get stuck in this structure where you have to think about things in a very specific way and talk about things in a very specific way.

02:42:26.000 Some things are shunned.

02:42:28.000 In the comedy world, those shunned things are ammunition.

02:42:31.000 Like that's that's where our weapons for comedy.

02:42:34.000 Like I want to talk about things that are fucking weird.

02:42:37.000 You know, I want to talk about the things that make you go, oh, yeah, I didn't want to say that, but I've been thinking the same kind of thing.

02:42:46.000 But that might be real.

02:42:47.000 That might be what's going on.

02:42:48.000 That is what's discouraged in polite society is encouraged as a comedian.

02:42:54.000 That's awesome.

02:42:55.000 So that's probably why we all love UFOs.

02:42:58.000 That's cool.

02:42:59.000 But there's a lot of us that are skeptical.

02:43:00.000 I've had conversations with people that don't believe in any.

02:43:02.000 Oh, I don't believe in any conspiracies.

02:43:04.000 I'm like, well, that's just silly.

02:43:06.000 You're just coddling yourself.

02:43:08.000 You know, people only see what they are able to believe.

02:43:12.000 They only see what makes them comfortable.

02:43:14.000 Or they try to only see what makes them comfortable.

02:43:17.000 And a lot of people, I think Nietzsche said that people don't want to know the truth because it'll destroy their comfortable sense of reality.

02:43:22.000 I totally bastardize that quote, but it's something like that, you know.

02:43:25.000 I think that's why people get so paranoid when they smoke weed.

02:43:27.000 Yeah.

02:43:28.000 All the blinders melt away.

02:43:30.000 And you're like, see, I'm a big proponent of the filter theory.

02:43:33.000 You know, I think there's all this weirdness all around us all the time.

02:43:36.000 And it just takes a little masculine or DMT or psilocybin, and it removes that filter, and you see the world for what it is, which becomes much more dreamlike.

02:43:46.000 I really do think that that essence of our consciousness is the root of all of this.

02:43:51.000 Yeah, I think you're correct.

02:43:53.000 I think it's the hotline to the universe.

02:43:55.000 That's what I think it is.

02:43:56.000 I think we're, you know, in order to do this task, whatever it is, my belief is this task is to create an artificial God.

02:44:02.000 I think that we're in the middle of that process right now.

02:44:05.000 I think that's our task.

02:44:06.000 There's a lot of factors that I point to, and they make sense.

02:44:09.000 Materialism, why are we so infatuated with materialism?

02:44:13.000 Because materialism ensures technological innovation.

02:44:15.000 It ensures that this being is going to make better stuff all the time.

02:44:20.000 Well, if that being makes better stuff all the time, it's not hard to extrapolate.

02:44:24.000 Like, take this a few years down the road.

02:44:27.000 You have an artificial intelligent life force.

02:44:29.000 And you have an artificial intelligent life force that has sentience and creativity and is capable of making a far better artificial intelligent life force radically quickly.

02:44:39.000 Different kinds of energy sources.

02:44:40.000 Before you know it, it's a God.

02:44:42.000 Or just the propagators.

02:44:43.000 Exactly.

02:44:44.000 We're the bees.

02:44:45.000 We make the hive.

02:44:46.000 We don't even know why.

02:44:47.000 I call us the electronic caterpillar.

02:44:50.000 We're making this little cocoon.

02:44:51.000 We don't know what the fuck we're doing.

02:44:52.000 And we're turning into some sort of a butterfly, some sort of a superior being.

02:44:57.000 Following the script.

02:44:58.000 I think that might be one of the reasons why beings from somewhere else are interested in us because they recognize there's a process going on.

02:45:04.000 And perhaps this process doesn't go on everywhere.

02:45:07.000 Perhaps these beings are embedded with a type of consciousness that doesn't allow them to seek territorial dominance.

02:45:16.000 They don't ever evolve these kind of primate instincts that we're saddled down with.

02:45:20.000 Because of our savage background, you know, I mean, I don't know if you ever watched Chimp Nation on Netflix. 1.00

02:45:26.000 Amazing documentary.

02:45:27.000 Fucking incredible docu series.

02:45:29.000 Can't recommend it enough.

02:45:30.000 These scientists were embedded with this chimpanzee pack, I guess, for 20 years.

02:45:36.000 So the chimpanzees had completely acclimated to them being around.

02:45:40.000 So long as they always stayed 20 yards away, never had any food, never look them in the eyes.

02:45:45.000 When they approach, back up, get out of there, they leave you alone.

02:45:48.000 And so these guys did this for 20 years, and they observe chimpanzee behavior, and it's like fucking people.

02:45:52.000 Just like way more violent.

02:45:54.000 The only other species other than us that's been observed going to war.

02:45:58.000 Going to war, having all animals fighting social games with each other, yes, like grooming each other.

02:46:05.000 Really interesting stuff.

02:46:06.000 But we, so we are saddled down with that programming.

02:46:10.000 And even though I think if we were genetically engineered, they made a superior version of what we used to be as chimpanzees or whatever the cousin of chimpanzee we came from, we're still saddled down.

02:46:19.000 Maybe they weren't.

02:46:20.000 So maybe like, maybe they don't have this insatiable desire for innovation that leads them to create art.

02:46:26.000 Maybe they're logical enough to realize like we can never make AI.

02:46:30.000 AI is a fruitless, it'll remove us.

02:46:34.000 Like let's be conscious of how we decide we progress forward so that we can keep our race.

02:46:40.000 You know, that we're these beings that control this planet.

02:46:43.000 We create this digital God.

02:46:45.000 It controls us now.

02:46:46.000 We fucked ourselves in a prison of our own design.

02:46:49.000 Maybe they're different than us.

02:46:51.000 Maybe they could recognize that and not fall into that, but they realize we're about to do it.

02:46:55.000 And they go, well, the primates just always do it.

02:46:57.000 The primates always want more fruit.

02:46:59.000 They want more wives. 1.00

02:47:00.000 They want bigger cars, bigger houses, newer phone, all that.

02:47:03.000 Keeping up with the Joneses.

02:47:05.000 The hairless, upright ones with free hands.

02:47:07.000 Especially got to be able to build stuff with those hands.

02:47:09.000 And they're curious.

02:47:11.000 So they're always trying to build new things.

02:47:12.000 And they can communicate so they can store information.

02:47:15.000 It's a mess.

02:47:17.000 It's a beautiful mess, OJo Road.

02:47:19.000 But it's a beautiful mess as opposed to their mess, which is probably telekinetic and telepathic.

02:47:23.000 They could probably operate things with their mind.

02:47:26.000 They probably use their mind to communicate.

02:47:28.000 And so they know what each other's thinking.

02:47:31.000 So there's no room for deception.

02:47:32.000 There's no room for lies.

02:47:34.000 No room for manipulation or sociopathy.

02:47:36.000 We would see it a mile away.

02:47:38.000 And so they've like radically shifted what it means to be a living, thinking organism.

02:47:43.000 Yeah.

02:47:43.000 Yeah, absolutely, man.

02:47:45.000 Dude, thank you so much.

02:47:46.000 Thank you.

02:47:47.000 It was awesome.

02:47:48.000 Revelation, the future, human, past.

02:47:52.000 And I really enjoyed talking to you, man.

02:47:53.000 This has been super fun.

02:47:54.000 I'm so glad you had me on.

02:47:55.000 This has been great.

02:47:58.000 If people want to find you, how do they get you on social media?

02:48:01.000 Yeah.

02:48:02.000 I've got a website, michaelpmasters.com.

02:48:04.000 It's got links to my four.

02:48:06.000 I have four books.

02:48:07.000 I just published a kid's book last week.

02:48:09.000 This is on UFOs too?

02:48:10.000 Yeah.

02:48:11.000 What's it called?

02:48:12.000 It's called Marshmallow in the UFO.

02:48:14.000 A Time Travel Adventure.

02:48:16.000 It's actually a prequel to that one with Jesus throwing up a double bird on the front, which is not child appropriate at all.

02:48:22.000 Yeah, it doesn't seem like it.

02:48:24.000 It was a bit of a right term, but man, this has been so fun.

02:48:26.000 Live pleasure.

02:48:27.000 Thank you for doing it.

02:48:27.000 I really appreciate it.

02:48:28.000 It was funny.

02:48:28.000 All right.

The Joe Rogan Experience - December 18, 2025

Joe Rogan Experience #2428 - Michael P. Masters

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