The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2435 - Bradley Cooper

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan podcast, check it out!

00:00:03.000 The Joe Rogan experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan, podcast by night, all day.

00:00:12.000 Hey, Bradley Cooper, what's happening, baby?

00:00:15.000 You know what it's like when like a Twilight Zone episode or something?

00:00:19.000 Where like you're watching the TV?

00:00:20.000 This is an episode where I'm watching the TV and all of a sudden you're inside and you're looking at me.

00:00:26.000 Yeah, and all of a sudden I'm inside the show.

00:00:28.000 It's crazy.

00:00:29.000 It's weird for me, too.

00:00:30.000 It's weird for me that it gets weird for other people too.

00:00:33.000 Like when I see people being weird about it, I'm like, it's okay.

00:00:36.000 I feel comfortable just saying that.

00:00:38.000 You look comfortable.

00:00:38.000 Oh, good.

00:00:39.000 No, no, no.

00:00:40.000 But it's excitement.

00:00:41.000 It's weird for me.

00:00:42.000 Like, I was trying to explain this to someone.

00:00:43.000 They're like, do people have a hard time being comfortable on the show?

00:00:46.000 I go, I kind of do, too. 0.99

00:00:47.000 It's fucking weird. 0.97

00:00:48.000 Yeah. 0.98

00:00:49.000 It's weird that that many people are watching.

00:00:51.000 Yes. 0.90

00:00:52.000 And then you start thinking, like, oh, don't fuck it up. 0.98

00:00:54.000 Don't say that. 0.98

00:00:55.000 Right.

00:00:57.000 But if you think about it, the fact that you did this long form setup and that we live in a culture where people at least say that it's all about short-term.

00:01:07.000 Yeah.

00:01:08.000 It goes against it.

00:01:09.000 The people are interested.

00:01:11.000 Yeah.

00:01:12.000 Well, the short-term stuff does work.

00:01:15.000 You know, like short attention span stuff is very popular, even with me.

00:01:19.000 But I have been resisting it more and more lately. 0.99

00:01:22.000 I'm like a fucking heroin addict, like slowly weaning myself off the drug. 0.99

00:01:28.000 And the more I wean myself, the better I feel, like physically better. 1.00

00:01:32.000 My brain works better.

00:01:34.000 I feel more relaxed.

00:01:36.000 I don't feel like this, like Sugar Sean O'Malley, the UC fighter, he said, even when I'm just scrolling, even if it's not anything about me, he goes, there's just like a low-level anxiety that I get.

00:01:47.000 I'm like, yeah, yeah, because like you know, you're wasting your time chasing a fix that you're never going to get.

00:01:55.000 And you're just like getting these short drips of like, oh, look at that.

00:01:59.000 Oh, look at that.

00:02:00.000 Oh, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll.

00:02:02.000 But that's not what people really want.

00:02:04.000 What people really want is something engaging.

00:02:06.000 Something you go, wow, that's like a great documentary, like, which are still super popular.

00:02:12.000 Like a great documentary, they're still, you know, like huge on Netflix and huge on YouTube.

00:02:17.000 So this is.

00:02:18.000 The Oppenheimer was like three hours long.

00:02:20.000 Exactly.

00:02:20.000 It was like $10 billion.

00:02:21.000 So people went.

00:02:23.000 Humans didn't change.

00:02:24.000 It's just you can hijack the reward system by giving them some short attention span nonsense. 1.00

00:02:29.000 And it just like tricks their slow drip dopamine into like continuing to watch this stupid shit. 1.00

00:02:35.000 But that's not what they want. 1.00

00:02:36.000 No.

00:02:37.000 You know, it's not what I want.

00:02:39.000 It's a difference between like, yeah, just a little drip of something that has the illusion that I'm getting what I want as opposed to what I actually need, which is sort of a reminder that I exist.

00:02:51.000 Yes.

00:02:52.000 Yes.

00:02:53.000 And that I'm communicating with somebody and I can relate to it.

00:02:56.000 Yes.

00:02:56.000 Which is a different thing.

00:02:57.000 And I only know this because I've never been on social media, but sometimes there was one time I got on, somehow got on TikTok and it was all police footage.

00:03:05.000 You know, like, and I was just, I remember laying on my couch, 40 minutes went by, and I was just doing this.

00:03:11.000 And it was like the first part of the video.

00:03:13.000 And then what happened?

00:03:14.000 And then like the second part, part two.

00:03:16.000 And that was the only time I experienced, I thought, I got to stay away from this because I won't leave the house.

00:03:21.000 It's bad.

00:03:22.000 It's bad for you, too, because it programs you to think that that is going on everywhere in the world.

00:03:27.000 Like if you have 8 billion people that are interacting with people all over the world and you only take the worst examples of that and broadcast it, and then it becomes viral and millions and millions of people think it rewires your way you think about human beings.

00:03:44.000 And the other thing is about memory.

00:03:46.000 Someone was talking about Niagara Falls the other day.

00:03:49.000 And I thought, I've been there, right?

00:03:51.000 And I'm like, have I been there?

00:03:53.000 Or did I see a video?

00:03:56.000 Or was that one of the things when I put the Oculus on?

00:03:59.000 Right, right.

00:04:00.000 Honestly, I can't remember, but I know what it feels like to be looking at it.

00:04:04.000 Oh, yeah.

00:04:05.000 So it's changing the way memory works.

00:04:10.000 100%.

00:04:11.000 Yeah.

00:04:12.000 I've come, I've hit a wall in my memory, like a tangible wall, because, and I think it's connected to like Dunbar's number.

00:04:20.000 Like Dunbar's number is the amount of people that you can keep in your head.

00:04:24.000 Like because we evolved in these tribal scenarios.

00:04:28.000 We evolved with like 150 people.

00:04:31.000 And so the way Dunbar calculated it, there's like very close, intimate, close circle people, which is a small amount.

00:04:39.000 And then immediately after that, there's a slightly larger amount.

00:04:43.000 And then it gets up to, what was it, like it gets up to like a thousand people?

00:04:46.000 1,500 people.

00:04:46.000 1,500.

00:04:47.000 That's the most amount of people you can keep in your head.

00:04:49.000 So it's like five people that like your tightest of tight.

00:04:52.000 And then 15, like slightly outside of that.

00:04:54.000 And it gets all the way up to about 1,500 people, recognizable people.

00:05:00.000 I would think I'd be able to.

00:05:02.000 That you could keep in your head.

00:05:03.000 Yeah.

00:05:04.000 But I'm way past 1,500 people. 0.99

00:05:06.000 So I'm fucked. 0.99

00:05:07.000 Right. 0.99

00:05:08.000 Like, I am like, there's people that I know really well.

00:05:11.000 And then I see them and I'm like, I don't remember his name.

00:05:14.000 1,500 sounds good.

00:05:15.000 And it seems bad. 0.99

00:05:16.000 I'm like, why can't I remember his fucking name? 0.99

00:05:18.000 I can't remember his name. 0.99

00:05:19.000 I'm horrible with names. 0.53

00:05:20.000 But it's just because my hard drive sucks.

00:05:23.000 It's like I don't have enough room.

00:05:25.000 It's like, you know, when you, the old iPhones, it's like, you've run out of max space.

00:05:30.000 Like, oh, geez, I got to start deleting photos and videos.

00:05:32.000 Now, do you get anxiety with that?

00:05:34.000 Or do you sort of breathe through and say, well, it's just the way it is?

00:05:37.000 I kind of just deal with it.

00:05:39.000 It is what it is.

00:05:40.000 But my memory itself is like very good and also very bad at the same time.

00:05:46.000 Yeah, me too.

00:05:47.000 I have a serious problem remembering people's names.

00:05:50.000 Well, you think about how many people.

00:05:51.000 Like as I was saying it, I was like, and I've watched this show so many times.

00:05:53.000 I was like, Jamie, right, that's Jamie.

00:05:55.000 Like as you were saying, I remember, do I remember any of the guys I just met?

00:05:58.000 I can't tell you one.

00:05:59.000 I just met them, shook their hand, looked them in their eyes.

00:06:01.000 They say their names, and it just goes in and out.

00:06:03.000 And some people get upset.

00:06:04.000 What's my name? 0.98

00:06:05.000 I'm like, I don't fucking know. 0.98

00:06:07.000 Oh, you don't remember me? 0.98

00:06:08.000 I'm like, you don't remember?

00:06:11.000 What's my name?

00:06:11.000 And you're like, well, that's why in Hollywood, people love to say, good to see you instead of nice to meet you.

00:06:19.000 Like, but you met me two years ago.

00:06:20.000 Like, I don't remember.

00:06:23.000 Yeah, Leonard Bernstein had a great thing that he would always be about.

00:06:25.000 I loved you in the last thing you did.

00:06:29.000 That's funny.

00:06:30.000 Speaking of which, I watched your movie.

00:06:32.000 Is this thing on?

00:06:33.000 And it's good.

00:06:34.000 It's really good, man.

00:06:36.000 It's one of the best representations of someone attempting to do stand-up.

00:06:41.000 It's a really good film.

00:06:44.000 But it's not really just about stand-up.

00:06:46.000 It's about these people with this.

00:06:48.000 It's about they're actual human beings.

00:06:52.000 Like, these are complicated, real, like, not caricaturish, not cartoonish people.

00:06:58.000 Like, I get that these are real people.

00:07:00.000 Right, good.

00:07:01.000 Complicated, real people that are trying to figure out their relationships in the context of this one guy, Will Arnett, is attempting to do stand-up.

00:07:10.000 Right.

00:07:11.000 So it was great.

00:07:12.000 I'm glad you say that.

00:07:13.000 So you feel, because, you know, I moved to New York in 97.

00:07:20.000 And then that was my introduction to any comedy world.

00:07:24.000 Other than with my dad, I used to watch Ronnie Dangerfield New Year's Eve special.

00:07:29.000 We used to watch it every year, you know, and it was Elaine Boozler and Sam Kinnison and Dice.

00:07:35.000 Elaine Boosler, I forgot about her.

00:07:37.000 I'm pretty sure she was on there.

00:07:38.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:07:40.000 And I was obsessed with Dice when I was like in eighth grade.

00:07:43.000 I memorized one of his records and I would do it in the train station with all my friends.

00:07:47.000 Because back then that's all you did, right?

00:07:48.000 You would memorize stuff.

00:07:49.000 Oh, yeah.

00:07:50.000 There was no video to look at.

00:07:51.000 You know, you wouldn't all sit around.

00:07:52.000 You would just memorize and then regale your friends with your impersonation of him.

00:07:57.000 And then, and Richard Pryor was my hero, hero growing up.

00:08:01.000 That was my idol.

00:08:02.000 So, I had this thing with stand-up comedy, and then I moved to New York, and I'm all of a sudden immersed with these clubs.

00:08:07.000 And Upright Citizens Brigade had just started.

00:08:09.000 And I did this movie, What Hot American Summer?

00:08:11.000 And there was all these people.

00:08:12.000 I didn't even know about the state.

00:08:13.000 Remember that show on MTV?

00:08:15.000 Uh-huh.

00:08:15.000 There was a story.

00:08:16.000 Yeah, all this.

00:08:17.000 And so I just, you know, little by little, immersed myself into that world.

00:08:21.000 And I just became fascinated with the culture.

00:08:24.000 And then Zach Alifanakis, who I met like in 2001, way before Hangover, I used to go and watch him do stuff.

00:08:30.000 And I just love the culture.

00:08:32.000 And when Will was telling me about this, I was like, oh, let's set it in New York and the cellar.

00:08:37.000 Because I just love the geography of the cellar, too.

00:08:40.000 That you go in the olive tree and you walk down into this place.

00:08:42.000 It's this whole other world.

00:08:44.000 And it just felt like, yeah, I really wanted, like, can we pull this off where it's authentic, where you were watching it at home and you get a sense.

00:08:51.000 So the fact that you're saying that you feel like it got it, you know, within the striking distance makes me really happy.

00:08:58.000 Yeah, it's striking distance.

00:08:59.000 It's like one of the only films.

00:09:01.000 Punchline was an interesting film, the Tom Hanks Sally Fields.

00:09:06.000 Yeah, of course. 0.99

00:09:07.000 But it was bullshit. 1.00

00:09:08.000 Like you watch it, like, what? 1.00

00:09:09.000 Like, what the fuck is this? 0.99

00:09:09.000 They have lockers. 0.99

00:09:12.000 And also, the comedy wasn't good.

00:09:14.000 It wasn't real comedy.

00:09:15.000 It was like, it felt flat and fake, and people were laughing at nothing.

00:09:19.000 The Will stuff felt real.

00:09:20.000 Yeah.

00:09:21.000 It felt real.

00:09:22.000 You know, like the clubs felt with a guy trying to work out what it's like to be on stage, an open mic.

00:09:28.000 And then the fact you got Jordan Jensen in, who I love.

00:09:30.000 Yeah, of course. 0.98

00:09:31.000 She was fucking great. 0.93

00:09:32.000 I texted her afterwards. 0.99

00:09:33.000 I'm like, isn't she great in the movie?

00:09:35.000 She's great.

00:09:36.000 I mean, the minute I started shooting her, I was like, oh, wait a second.

00:09:39.000 Yeah.

00:09:40.000 It was like, and the first thing I saw with her was one of her sets.

00:09:44.000 And I was just up there with the camera and I came around and her profile.

00:09:47.000 And actually, I felt like I was in the stars born.

00:09:49.000 She looked a lot like Gaga and Alley, like singing shallow. 1.00

00:09:53.000 And I had like this weird moment.

00:09:53.000 Oh, wow.

00:09:54.000 I was like, whoa.

00:09:56.000 And then she was just incredible.

00:09:57.000 And then as it went on, she had a larger part of the movie. 0.98

00:10:01.000 And then that whole thing when they're talking about the small penis, and we go up to her and just her writing that down. 0.98

00:10:06.000 And she was just so fluid. 0.99

00:10:08.000 And I was like, oh, yeah, she's got it, man.

00:10:09.000 She's got it.

00:10:10.000 She's great.

00:10:11.000 She's really great.

00:10:12.000 She's a really unique person.

00:10:14.000 Like, a very unusual person.

00:10:15.000 Like, even just talking to her on a podcast.

00:10:17.000 We're up on a farm with two moms.

00:10:19.000 Amazing.

00:10:19.000 Yeah.

00:10:20.000 Yeah.

00:10:20.000 She could do anything.

00:10:21.000 I know.

00:10:21.000 And she's so fun.

00:10:23.000 She's fun on stage, too.

00:10:24.000 Like, she's great.

00:10:25.000 Very proud.

00:10:26.000 Very, very smart.

00:10:27.000 Very smart.

00:10:28.000 But, like, her character, like the way she interacts, I'm like, oh, that's so realistic. 1.00

00:10:33.000 Like, we should fuck. 1.00

00:10:35.000 Exactly. 1.00

00:10:35.000 Yeah, exactly. 1.00

00:10:36.000 And then you go back to like East Village or Chinatown apartment.

00:10:39.000 You know, they live in it's all one room.

00:10:41.000 Yeah, I believe it.

00:10:42.000 Yeah, me too.

00:10:43.000 It was great.

00:10:44.000 It's, it's like, you know, you're never going to really capture stand-up in a movie because it's like to capture what it is, you would need like years.

00:10:53.000 And also, you would need a movie dedicated to it.

00:10:55.000 Exactly.

00:10:55.000 The movie's not dedicated to it.

00:10:57.000 It was just about, can I make you feel like you're there that you're with him on stage?

00:10:57.000 Exactly.

00:10:57.000 Do you know what I mean?

00:11:02.000 Yes.

00:11:03.000 That's what that could be like.

00:11:04.000 Yeah.

00:11:05.000 You know, the silence and then the cameras.

00:11:07.000 Boom.

00:11:08.000 There's nowhere to go.

00:11:09.000 How did you work out the stand-up scenes?

00:11:13.000 Did you have real audiences?

00:11:14.000 And there were just real audiences because you have to hit the quota of extras with sag and all that.

00:11:21.000 But we try to do it as authentic as possible, which was everybody that works at the cellar, they're there in the movie.

00:11:28.000 Everybody who agreed to do it.

00:11:29.000 So all the waiters and everything, the staff, that's all people that work there.

00:11:34.000 Liz, who's the manager, who plays the manager, she's the manager of the seller. 1.00

00:11:37.000 So all those people are real.

00:11:39.000 But then the patrons, I can't remember what the email was or what the ask was, but like people who like to go to stand-up comedy, who go regularly.

00:11:49.000 And then once they were there, I never told them what was going to happen.

00:11:52.000 I never directed them once.

00:11:53.000 It was like whatever they're laughing at, that's it.

00:11:56.000 And I don't do many takes.

00:11:58.000 So you're getting an authentic reaction.

00:12:00.000 Now it's hyped up because there's cameras there and it's a movie, but they're not told what to do.

00:12:05.000 It feels like that.

00:12:06.000 And so, and even in the mix, like we never added anything.

00:12:09.000 There was no added laugh, nothing.

00:12:11.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:12:11.000 Oh, that's great.

00:12:12.000 It's all because I was like, it's just got to be real.

00:12:13.000 Because I wanted Will to just, you know, I just don't want him to act.

00:12:17.000 I just want him to.

00:12:17.000 Right.

00:12:18.000 And that's why, you know, Shane Gillis was kind enough.

00:12:21.000 The first time he went up was here at the mothership.

00:12:23.000 Shane gave him four minutes of his set.

00:12:25.000 And he and I, and Will and I flew to Austin and we were sitting in the green room.

00:12:30.000 And Shane was like an hour and a half late.

00:12:32.000 And Tony was there.

00:12:33.000 And he was so nice.

00:12:34.000 I'd never met Tony before.

00:12:35.000 And that's where I smelled the thing.

00:12:37.000 You know, I did this.

00:12:38.000 Oh, it smells like awesome. 1.00

00:12:39.000 Fuck me. 1.00

00:12:41.000 That shit is no joke. 1.00

00:12:43.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:12:45.000 And that was the first time Will ever went up.

00:12:47.000 And we were just trying some of that material and went up as Alex Novak.

00:12:50.000 Because I was like, when do you have an opportunity as an actor to actually do the thing you're preparing to do?

00:12:56.000 Right.

00:12:56.000 And like, think about how much that would cost.

00:12:57.000 Like, you can go into a room where there's real people.

00:12:59.000 Right.

00:13:00.000 It's all, and then every step that you're taking, you're in a club.

00:13:03.000 So he did that.

00:13:04.000 And then when we went back to New York, he did it like three times a week, four or five times a night for like six weeks.

00:13:10.000 Just so he could understand what it's like.

00:13:10.000 Wow.

00:13:12.000 And some people didn't know who he was.

00:13:14.000 You know, you get a lot of tourists coming to New York City, and there were nights where you knew that he, when he said Alex Novak, they're like, cool.

00:13:21.000 Right.

00:13:22.000 Not like you're not Alex Novak.

00:13:23.000 Right.

00:13:24.000 You know, okay, let's see what you got.

00:13:26.000 And so that was really, that was really great.

00:13:29.000 How did you, who wrote this film?

00:13:32.000 He wrote it with this guy, Mark Chappell.

00:13:35.000 It was a movie that was more about his, based on this guy, John Bishop, who's a real comedian, is a very successful comedian in the UK.

00:13:43.000 And he, Will met that guy on a barge somewhere, and he was talking about his story.

00:13:50.000 And he was like, yeah, I was doing something else.

00:13:52.000 My wife and I were breaking up and I walked into a bar, a pub one night.

00:13:55.000 I didn't want to pay the cover.

00:13:56.000 That really happened to this guy.

00:13:58.000 So he put his name down and I called him.

00:14:00.000 And then he was like, yeah, I'm getting a divorce and got a couple chuckles, but he just loved it.

00:14:04.000 Never done comedy, nothing before that.

00:14:06.000 And he kept going back and he was obsessed by it.

00:14:10.000 And then like weeks later, his estranged wife walked into a place he was doing an open mic at with her girlfriends and he was doing a set about their relationship.

00:14:19.000 So that actually happened.

00:14:20.000 Wow.

00:14:20.000 I know.

00:14:21.000 And then they got back together and they're still together.

00:14:23.000 And then now he like he tours around the world.

00:14:25.000 Like he makes a living as a comedian.

00:14:27.000 That's incredible.

00:14:28.000 So when he was telling me that, I was doing another movie and I remember I was like, what are you working on?

00:14:28.000 Yeah.

00:14:32.000 Because we've been friends for like 25 years.

00:14:36.000 And he was telling me that and I was like, I just imagine Will, because I know him so well and he's so charismatic and funny and just has this presence that is kind of lacking.

00:14:45.000 I don't feel like there's like a male archetype now that fits him.

00:14:48.000 He's like, he's like Robert Mitchum.

00:14:49.000 He reminds me like a young Robert Mitchum Willarnet.

00:14:52.000 And he's telling me that I'm like his voice and like that face, stand-up comedy.

00:14:55.000 I just couldn't get it out of my head, Joe.

00:14:57.000 And I was like, hey, man, can I read it?

00:15:00.000 Like, how far along are you guys?

00:15:01.000 And I read it and I was like, I didn't quite, because like you, I had never seen a movie that I thought nailed it.

00:15:06.000 And I love stand-up comedy so much.

00:15:08.000 I was like, and I have no desire to try to redo it.

00:15:11.000 And also, comedy is so massive right now.

00:15:13.000 And the specials are so great and cinematic right now that there's no reason to try to make a fictional movie about something that we can watch as a documentary or a docuseries or a show that is authentic.

00:15:26.000 I was like, so, but I still would really love to capture it cinematically.

00:15:30.000 So what if it's a foil and the movie's about the two of them?

00:15:33.000 That's interesting.

00:15:34.000 Yes. 1.00

00:15:34.000 And you suck. 1.00

00:15:37.000 Well, that was one of the great scenes where Jordan was like, you bad, you're really bad. 1.00

00:15:43.000 And it's much more about just what stand-up comedy, with anything.

00:15:47.000 And you talk about this on your show, doing anything that puts you out of your comfort zone.

00:15:51.000 Yeah.

00:15:52.000 Anything that pushes you, you're going to improve as a human being.

00:15:56.000 That was really what that whole thing is about.

00:15:59.000 And I just love the culture and the world.

00:16:01.000 And I thought there's so much tangible stuff there for me to get excited about cinematically and story-wise.

00:16:06.000 But really, it's like it could have been anything.

00:16:09.000 Just something that he had never done that had he had puts himself out there.

00:16:13.000 And that in doing it and doing it, he just sort of gets more comfortable.

00:16:17.000 And then the mic comes off the stand and then he's leaning against the wall.

00:16:20.000 And by the end of it, and then the way it was structured, it allows him to do that vampire set at the end of the movie where all he's doing is exercising what he's feeling emotionally because he's comfortable in this setting.

00:16:33.000 Yeah.

00:16:34.000 Because the old him, when he has that fight with her in the attic, he just would have kept that all inside and he would have been canatonic at his kids' assembly where we meet him in the beginning of the movie because you just don't know what to do with all that.

00:16:46.000 But if you have an outlet, something expressive, you can exercise it in a healthy way.

00:16:54.000 Yeah.

00:16:54.000 So that really was the point of that whole part of it being stand-up comedy and open mic.

00:17:01.000 What you really nailed is someone trying it for the first time.

00:17:05.000 You guys really nailed that.

00:17:06.000 You really nailed a beginner in comedy.

00:17:09.000 Like it seemed completely realistic.

00:17:12.000 Yeah.

00:17:12.000 And I think that's one of the reasons why Kill Tony is so popular.

00:17:12.000 Great.

00:17:16.000 Yes.

00:17:17.000 You know, because you get to see that raw reality of someone who has never done stand-up before.

00:17:23.000 Like there were people that went up at Madison Square Garden in front of 16,000 people that had never done stand-up before.

00:17:31.000 No, no, no.

00:17:34.000 Don't do that. 1.00

00:17:36.000 You should be in a fucking smoky room. 1.00

00:17:38.000 Well, not smokey anymore, but a tiny fucking room where of disinterested people where everyone's bombing and you bomb to it. 1.00

00:17:44.000 It's not that big a deal. 0.99

00:17:46.000 Because you might have some potential. 0.99

00:17:48.000 But if you fucking bomb in front of 16,000 people, the pain of that, you may never recover. 0.99

00:17:53.000 Also, just think about the audio, like, because you're going to hear your voice through the, you know, echoing. 0.99

00:17:58.000 It can't be just an, like, so there.

00:18:00.000 I imagine there's an echo.

00:18:01.000 So you're not only bombing, but you're hearing it reverberate.

00:18:05.000 You don't really feel the echo.

00:18:06.000 You don't hear the echo because you have monitors on stage.

00:18:09.000 So it's good to see you pretty flat.

00:18:10.000 Okay.

00:18:11.000 But the noise of your voice where you've never heard your voice into a microphone before ever.

00:18:17.000 Right.

00:18:18.000 And now you're in front of 16,000 people doing it.

00:18:21.000 And then Tony's sitting there looking at you and Shane's there and I'm there.

00:18:24.000 It's like a nightmare.

00:18:25.000 It's like you're walking into a nightmare.

00:18:27.000 Well, what?

00:18:27.000 Just doing stand-up in front of a guy like Shane Gillis is crazy.

00:18:31.000 He's sitting right next to you.

00:18:32.000 You've never done stand-up.

00:18:33.000 You're going to do stand-up right next to a guy who's selling out arenas.

00:18:36.000 Like that's nuts.

00:18:37.000 That feeling is nuts.

00:18:39.000 But it's wonderful to watch because you're watching authentic reactions happening in real time.

00:18:44.000 Okay.

00:18:44.000 Yes.

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00:20:02.000 It's not processed.

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00:20:08.000 Yeah, it's true.

00:20:09.000 Yeah.

00:20:10.000 It's just that we, I think human beings really love seeing what it's like when someone starts out doing something because a lot of people have these ideas like, oh, maybe I could try that.

00:20:21.000 Or maybe I could learn how to play guitar.

00:20:23.000 Or maybe I could do that. 0.58

00:20:24.000 But it's just the getting going and sucking at something in the beginning.

00:20:28.000 It's terrifying for people.

00:20:29.000 So when they see someone, just try it.

00:20:32.000 I think they're like, oh, look at him.

00:20:33.000 Go.

00:20:33.000 Look at him.

00:20:34.000 He's out there doing it.

00:20:35.000 He's on the bike.

00:20:36.000 He's moving.

00:20:37.000 You know, it's like you see actual people that are trying to do something that they've never done before.

00:20:43.000 And it's exciting.

00:20:44.000 And also, the one thing I wanted to touch on is the craft of it all.

00:20:48.000 You know, that it's, that it takes a lot of work.

00:20:50.000 I know that it's not, you know, just, you know, the writing.

00:20:52.000 You know, she says that one point, she's like, you got to write, you know, keep going up.

00:20:56.000 And I think most people, at least I didn't know before I started going, that people go up three or four times a night.

00:21:02.000 And so that was something I thought it was important to convey.

00:21:02.000 Like I didn't understand.

00:21:06.000 Just the work ethic that's needed.

00:21:08.000 Well, New York is really great for that.

00:21:10.000 And it's always had a culture of that.

00:21:12.000 It's had a culture of guys hopping from club to club and doing set to set because there's so many clubs in Manhattan.

00:21:19.000 So guys would just, you know, I think the most guy, I ever heard one guy did eight or nine sets a night.

00:21:25.000 Wow.

00:21:25.000 Like they're just like, that's how many clubs there are.

00:21:27.000 You just hop all over the place.

00:21:29.000 You start your night at like 8 p.m.

00:21:31.000 Yeah, downtown, there's a ton downtown.

00:21:32.000 Then you can go uptown.

00:21:33.000 Yeah.

00:21:34.000 You go all over the place.

00:21:35.000 It's, we've got a lot of that here now because there's so many clubs in Austin now.

00:21:40.000 I mean, we went there.

00:21:41.000 What you built is incredible.

00:21:43.000 Thank you.

00:21:44.000 The culture, everything.

00:21:45.000 You know, I showed the movie to a stand-up who hadn't done stand-up in like 15 years.

00:21:49.000 And he said the only thing that for sure you got wrong is the culture.

00:21:52.000 I was like, what do you mean?

00:21:53.000 He's like, no, people aren't that nice.

00:21:54.000 And I was like, actually, I think you're wrong.

00:21:57.000 I was like, it's changed.

00:21:59.000 I was like, people are supportive now.

00:22:01.000 It's in where you go.

00:22:02.000 There's places where it's not very supportive.

00:22:04.000 But at least like, I used to go to the cellar like in early 2000s.

00:22:04.000 Really?

00:22:07.000 Didn't feel like it does now.

00:22:08.000 Right.

00:22:09.000 Well, I think Ari Shafir changed that a lot.

00:22:12.000 He brought like the culture of LA to New York where you're like more supportive of each other.

00:22:17.000 It was always like dog against dog because really the way it all started out was in the 1990s, it was all about everyone was auditioning for a sitcom. 0.98

00:22:29.000 And if you and I were, if I showed up to audition for a sitcom, I'm like, oh, fuck Bradley's here. 1.00

00:22:34.000 Fuck that guy. 1.00

00:22:34.000 He's going for the same part. 1.00

00:22:35.000 You know, it was just like that could change your life. 0.94

00:22:38.000 If you got that sitcom, now all of a sudden you're fucking huge and I'm still like struggling to pay my rent, eating ramen. 0.86

00:22:44.000 And it could have been me.

00:22:46.000 And so there's this like serious resentment that happens in the 1990s because everybody, like the golden carrot at the end of the stick was the tonight show or you know, hosting a late, if you could get your own late night show, oh my God, he made it.

00:22:59.000 He's a host of the tonight show.

00:23:01.000 That was like the thing that only one person could get.

00:23:03.000 And then there was like the sitcom.

00:23:05.000 Like if it really worked out, they'd make a sitcom around you and you'd get a development deal.

00:23:09.000 So there was people would psychologically backstab people. 0.98

00:23:13.000 People would talk shit to people before they went on stage. 1.00

00:23:16.000 They would try to hijack their fucking mind before they're like, really? 1.00

00:23:19.000 It was dark. 1.00

00:23:20.000 Crazy.

00:23:21.000 And then the internet came around.

00:23:23.000 And then the internet, instead of people being your competitors, they became not just your friends and not just your colleagues, but also an asset.

00:23:32.000 Because if you're doing a podcast and you've got your funny friends on, then your podcast is better.

00:23:39.000 And then if you tell people about their podcast, then their podcast is better.

00:23:43.000 And then you go on their podcast and that's better.

00:23:45.000 And everybody benefits from everybody else doing well.

00:23:48.000 So it completely reversed the system.

00:23:51.000 And then it became much more about being supportive of each other.

00:23:55.000 And then everybody kind of realized, like, hey, it's way more fun when we're all having fun, you know?

00:24:00.000 And since the television thing kind of died off, the sitcom thing kind of died off with reality shows.

00:24:08.000 And then it was really just more about getting clips up on the internet and about getting, and then there was Netflix specials, so it wasn't just everybody trying to get an HBO special.

00:24:17.000 There was way more specials.

00:24:18.000 And then you could just upload specials to YouTube and became this way more collaborative, supportive environment.

00:24:24.000 And then Ari Shafir took that that we had kind of like established in LA and brought that to New York.

00:24:30.000 And a lot of those guys ran with it.

00:24:32.000 I mean, that's the way to go.

00:24:32.000 Yeah.

00:24:33.000 People always say, you know, there's a lot of room at the top.

00:24:36.000 There's a lot.

00:24:36.000 Yeah.

00:24:37.000 There's a lot of room in stand-up for sure.

00:24:39.000 You know, and it's like, and everybody has their own lane, even within this big highway.

00:24:43.000 And everybody wants to be with other people.

00:24:45.000 Who wants to be a lone wolf, really?

00:24:47.000 For a long period of time?

00:24:48.000 Yeah.

00:24:49.000 There's a few.

00:24:50.000 Yeah.

00:24:50.000 They're all psychologically destroyed.

00:24:53.000 They're just a mess.

00:24:54.000 Yeah.

00:24:55.000 Who doesn't want to have friends?

00:24:56.000 Yeah.

00:24:56.000 It's crazy.

00:24:57.000 I don't get it. 0.97

00:24:58.000 But, you know, it's that aspect of the culture, I felt like in the movie You Guys Nailed, which is a realistic aspect, a realistic portrayal of what it's like where a bunch of people just, they were all busting each other's balls. 0.63

00:25:11.000 Yeah, oh, yeah, exactly.

00:25:12.000 Yeah, you could be supportive and still honest.

00:25:14.000 That was the thing.

00:25:14.000 There's no lack of honesty or criticism.

00:25:17.000 It's just, it's not done with the hope that for your demise.

00:25:21.000 Yes.

00:25:22.000 That's the difference.

00:25:23.000 Yeah, I think the 90s poisoned a lot of comedians.

00:25:27.000 It poisoned them because it gave you this idea that the whole thing was about a means to an end.

00:25:34.000 And that end was a sitcom.

00:25:35.000 And everybody thought you just had to get a sitcom.

00:25:37.000 You got to get a sitcom.

00:25:38.000 And that was what everybody was working towards.

00:25:40.000 There's people that were developing their entire act based around a persona that they could sell to the networks.

00:25:46.000 Were you doing stand-up before your sitcom?

00:25:49.000 Yes.

00:25:50.000 Okay.

00:25:50.000 I see.

00:25:51.000 So is that how that happened?

00:25:52.000 Did someone see you and then they were like, oh, you got to try this show?

00:25:56.000 Yeah, I got ridiculously lucky.

00:26:00.000 Like, you know, a lot of people say, oh, I work really hard to get on a sitcom.

00:26:03.000 Nope.

00:26:04.000 No, I got lucky.

00:26:05.000 I did the MTV.

00:26:06.000 I never had any aspirations to act at all.

00:26:08.000 I did MTV, half-hour comedy hour.

00:26:10.000 I got a development deal.

00:26:11.000 And all of a sudden, I'm living in L.A. and I'm on a sitcom.

00:26:14.000 And it happened in a couple of days.

00:26:15.000 I had a great sitcom.

00:26:17.000 I was on a bad one first.

00:26:18.000 I was on a bad one called Hardball.

00:26:21.000 It was a sitcom on Fox where I played a baseball player.

00:26:24.000 That show got canceled. 0.57

00:26:26.000 And unfortunately, I thought it was going to go because I was retarded.

00:26:29.000 I was, you know, 25 years old, 26 years old.

00:26:33.000 And I was like, oh, this is going to take off.

00:26:35.000 I should get an apartment.

00:26:36.000 So I had a lease on an apartment and I wanted to do it.

00:26:38.000 I'm sure people were telling you that it was going to take off, too.

00:26:40.000 Oh, yeah.

00:26:41.000 Yeah, of course.

00:26:41.000 Everybody believed it.

00:26:42.000 Yeah, you're going to win an Emmy.

00:26:43.000 Well, the guys who made it, Jeff Martin and Kevin Curran, they worked on The Simpsons.

00:26:47.000 They worked on Married with Children.

00:26:48.000 They were really good.

00:26:49.000 But then the Fox people came in and just ruined it.

00:26:51.000 Like the executives came in and they brought in a bunch of hacks and just ruined the show.

00:26:55.000 Did you have fun doing it?

00:26:56.000 Oh, yeah.

00:26:57.000 I had a kind of good time, but I also missed comedy and I missed New York people and I wanted to get out of there.

00:27:04.000 I was like, I got to get back to New York. 1.00

00:27:06.000 Fuck this place. 1.00

00:27:06.000 As soon as it was over, but I was like, fuck, I got this lease. 1.00

00:27:09.000 So I had a lease for a year. 0.99

00:27:11.000 And then I got a developer.

00:27:12.000 How long were you in LA at that time?

00:27:14.000 Oh, I was only in LA for a few months.

00:27:17.000 Yeah.

00:27:17.000 Wow.

00:27:18.000 So I moved out there to do the show.

00:27:21.000 I got a lease almost immediately.

00:27:23.000 And then I was out there for a few months.

00:27:26.000 Show got canceled.

00:27:27.000 And then I got a development deal to do something for NBC.

00:27:32.000 And they were going to do my own sitcom.

00:27:34.000 But as we were developing it, they said, hey, there's a show that we're doing.

00:27:38.000 It's called News Radio.

00:27:39.000 It's already been picked up.

00:27:40.000 We already did the pilot.

00:27:42.000 But we fired one person from the pilot, and we want you to read for this.

00:27:47.000 And that's how I got on News Radio.

00:27:48.000 That's how it happened.

00:27:50.000 Like that was the only second show I ever auditioned for ever.

00:27:53.000 So I had one show that went on air and got canceled.

00:27:53.000 Wow.

00:27:55.000 You had a very unique track.

00:27:57.000 That's nuts. 0.99

00:27:57.000 Dumb luck. 0.99

00:27:58.000 Stumbled into it 100%. 0.99

00:28:00.000 I can't take any credit for it.

00:28:02.000 That's amazing. 0.99

00:28:02.000 Dumb luck. 0.99

00:28:03.000 Just my ability to keep it together in auditions and not crack with no acting experience at all. 0.94

00:28:09.000 But it was just not, it wasn't something that I aspired to.

00:28:12.000 So it didn't have the kind of pressure that it probably had for a lot of people.

00:28:16.000 And it probably didn't have the same kind of valation, too.

00:28:18.000 Like you, I assume it was not something you really wanted.

00:28:18.000 Right.

00:28:21.000 It was like it was fun, but you weren't like, this is this is like, this feels right.

00:28:25.000 No, what it felt like is, ooh, I'm going to get money.

00:28:28.000 Get some money.

00:28:29.000 Yeah, then something's wrong.

00:28:30.000 I was like, something's wrong.

00:28:31.000 I was like, this is good.

00:28:32.000 I'm going to get money and I don't have to worry about money.

00:28:34.000 That's how I thought about it.

00:28:36.000 And then when I was doing it, I was like, wow, I'm so lucky.

00:28:38.000 Like, how did I stumble on it?

00:28:39.000 I'm here with Phil Hartman.

00:28:40.000 This is crazy, dude.

00:28:42.000 Dave Foley and Stephen Roode Tierney.

00:28:45.000 Like, this is nuts.

00:28:45.000 Yeah.

00:28:46.000 It was a crazy cast.

00:28:47.000 Right?

00:28:48.000 No, it was Paul Sims.

00:28:49.000 Paul Sims, right?

00:28:50.000 Yeah.

00:28:51.000 Who had just left Larry Sanders show.

00:28:53.000 So he left Larry Stash.

00:28:53.000 Right.

00:28:55.000 Yeah, it was crazy luck. 1.00

00:28:56.000 Just stupid, dumb luck. 1.00

00:28:58.000 That's right. 1.00

00:28:58.000 Sorgan did that other show with Jeff Daniels. 1.00

00:29:00.000 Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

00:29:00.000 Right.

00:29:03.000 So, but, but back in those days, like, everybody was working towards that.

00:29:09.000 And fortunately, I already had that.

00:29:11.000 So my thing was just continue to work on stand-up and just work on my stand-up.

00:29:16.000 And if this all goes away, I'll just go back to being a comic.

00:29:19.000 And doing stand-up in LA.

00:29:21.000 Right.

00:29:21.000 Yes.

00:29:22.000 So, and so that was new?

00:29:24.000 Yeah.

00:29:24.000 And that's where I encountered the worst backstabbing I've ever seen in my life.

00:29:29.000 So you're coming from New York where you didn't feel that.

00:29:31.000 You didn't feel it as much.

00:29:32.000 Right. 0.99

00:29:32.000 You know, you felt like a lot of shit talking, but that was fun. 0.99

00:29:35.000 You know, guys would make fun if you bombed. 0.99

00:29:37.000 Right.

00:29:37.000 They were doing it to your face.

00:29:38.000 Yeah.

00:29:38.000 They were doing it to your face.

00:29:39.000 And it was a more like it was just a more ball-busting, like silly environment in New York.

00:29:47.000 It wasn't, no one thought they were going to get famous in New York.

00:29:50.000 You know, they were all just doing sets.

00:29:54.000 But in LA, everybody had this idea to get a sitcom.

00:29:57.000 And then in the 1990s, they started giving out development deals.

00:30:01.000 That was the big thing.

00:30:02.000 You get like a $200,000, half a million dollar development deal.

00:30:06.000 And then all of a sudden, you have all this money and you're living it.

00:30:09.000 And so everybody was working towards that.

00:30:11.000 So it became, instead of like people working towards just being a stand-up, it became stand-up was a means to an end.

00:30:18.000 And then all these other people, they were in your way to get that goal.

00:30:22.000 Jesus.

00:30:23.000 And then your agent was telling you that's what you had to do.

00:30:25.000 And every because they wanted that money too.

00:30:26.000 So it was all like programming people to go after the situation.

00:30:30.000 So completely different culture in the stand-up community there.

00:30:32.000 Exactly.

00:30:33.000 But then that all went away.

00:30:35.000 It all went away.

00:30:36.000 Like this, the idea of working towards a sitcom is not, it's like working towards a career in ham radio. 0.97

00:30:42.000 Like you just fucking went away. 0.52

00:30:44.000 Well, you say that Ari changed it. 0.99

00:30:45.000 How did he do it?

00:30:46.000 Because he brought the LA culture to New York.

00:30:49.000 Ari moved from LA back to New York. 1.00

00:30:53.000 And everybody that I talked to in New York is always like, you guys are doing it wrong.

00:30:57.000 And people listened to him.

00:30:58.000 Yeah.

00:30:58.000 Well, because he was established and he was a really good comic.

00:31:01.000 And they were like, he's right.

00:31:03.000 And they would come to LA.

00:31:03.000 Wow.

00:31:05.000 Like a lot of guys like Andrew Schultz and a lot of these other guys, they would come to LA and they're like, bro, everybody's so fucking nice here.

00:31:11.000 And they're all just having a great time.

00:31:13.000 Like, why aren't we doing that?

00:31:14.000 Why aren't we just having a great time?

00:31:16.000 And so it shifted.

00:31:18.000 It's just, it was the culture of the internet.

00:31:21.000 The internet changed everything because there was no longer this one thing that a hundred guys were trying to audition for.

00:31:27.000 Now it was anybody could just put up something online.

00:31:32.000 And then all your friends became assets.

00:31:35.000 They all became like valuable to you instead of competitors.

00:31:38.000 That's cool.

00:31:39.000 Yeah.

00:31:40.000 Do you go up in these cities ever now?

00:31:43.000 If I'm in LA, I'll still do sets in LA.

00:31:43.000 I do.

00:31:45.000 I haven't been in a while.

00:31:46.000 But, you know, most of the time I'm at my own club.

00:31:49.000 Right.

00:31:50.000 It makes it way.

00:31:51.000 Also, I have teenage kids and they're, I want to be home.

00:31:55.000 Did you do the cellar?

00:31:56.000 Yeah, I did the cellar back in the day.

00:31:58.000 But more I did, I did the stand.

00:32:00.000 I did catch when it was there.

00:32:03.000 Right.

00:32:03.000 I did, I always did Dangerfields.

00:32:07.000 Dangerfields was great because it was like a hole in the wall.

00:32:12.000 There was hardly anybody else.

00:32:13.000 Is that where he shot his special?

00:32:15.000 Yes.

00:32:15.000 Wow.

00:32:16.000 Yeah.

00:32:17.000 It was big in the 80s and then something happened. 0.99

00:32:19.000 And by the time I got there in the 90s, it was like fucking dead. 0.94

00:32:22.000 One time I went there and I had a spot at like 8.30. 0.88

00:32:28.000 And I don't remember what time the show started, but there was a few people on before me.

00:32:31.000 And I got there and the people that were on before me were sitting at the bar.

00:32:33.000 I go, what's going on?

00:32:34.000 They're like, there's no crowd.

00:32:35.000 I'm like, there's no crowd.

00:32:36.000 There's nobody.

00:32:37.000 And so then this couple walked up and they bought tickets for the comedy show.

00:32:42.000 And this guy, Bobby, who was the doorman, like, step right up.

00:32:44.000 It was a Scottish guy.

00:32:45.000 Come on in.

00:32:46.000 I have you seated.

00:32:47.000 He seats them down.

00:32:48.000 There's no one there, just them.

00:32:50.000 They sit down.

00:32:51.000 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Dangerfields, your first act. 0.99

00:32:55.000 And we all did stand-up for two fucking people. 0.99

00:32:58.000 Wow. 1.00

00:32:59.000 Yeah.

00:32:59.000 The whole night was two people.

00:33:02.000 And they had a great time.

00:33:03.000 I'm sure.

00:33:04.000 But it was weird.

00:33:05.000 It's like when you're doing stand-up for just two people.

00:33:08.000 You're only looking at two people. 1.00

00:33:09.000 But you also realize how much of your act is bullshit. 1.00

00:33:12.000 How much of your act is like fucking dance moves. 1.00

00:33:16.000 It's just nonsense, like English on the cue ball. 1.00

00:33:19.000 It's like you're doing a lot of silly things that like don't even, and you're not connecting with real humans. 0.93

00:33:25.000 Right. 1.00

00:33:25.000 And when there's two people there, it like cuts the fat out of all of your shit. 1.00

00:33:30.000 And you recognize where the flaws in your writing are and the flaws in your delivery. 1.00

00:33:35.000 But Dangerfields was a wild little place.

00:33:40.000 It was like a classic comedy club that didn't have any, no industry went there, no agents, no managers right there.

00:33:50.000 Yeah.

00:33:50.000 Always.

00:33:51.000 It was just like a bunch of weird degenerates. 0.90

00:33:53.000 And it was fun. 0.93

00:33:54.000 Wow.

00:33:55.000 That was a fun place.

00:33:56.000 So I did that club a lot.

00:33:57.000 But a lot of, I did the road a lot.

00:34:00.000 Yeah.

00:34:01.000 Because that was how I could make money.

00:34:02.000 And I could headline.

00:34:03.000 Like I do an hour.

00:34:04.000 Because if you're in the city, you're doing 15-minute sets or 10-minute sets.

00:34:07.000 Like, that's great.

00:34:09.000 But it's hard to piece together an hour at a 10-minute set because you kind of want to let the material breathe and put it all together and compose it into one big thing.

00:34:18.000 And you really can work on that a lot more if you're actually headlining.

00:34:22.000 Do you watch a lot of specials, comedy specials nowadays?

00:34:25.000 I watch a lot of comics when I see them at the club.

00:34:25.000 I don't.

00:34:28.000 Right, but not like.

00:34:30.000 No, I probably should.

00:34:31.000 I probably should watch more of them.

00:34:33.000 But really, comedy is like an artistic form of hypnosis.

00:34:39.000 And the real way to see comedy is to be there live.

00:34:44.000 And you know when the person's locked in and you know when they're not.

00:34:47.000 You feel it.

00:34:48.000 They got you.

00:34:49.000 Like they're thinking for you.

00:34:50.000 Like if I'm watching a tell and he's at like the mothership and he's killing, like we're all like this.

00:34:56.000 We're like locked into his brain and we're letting him like take us on a ride.

00:35:00.000 It's like a kind of a form of hypnosis.

00:35:00.000 Yeah, of course.

00:35:03.000 And I really think that a stand-up special, as good as they are, you're maybe getting 60 to 70% of the experience of actually being there.

00:35:11.000 That's why I enjoy watching them to see how different people make them.

00:35:15.000 Because it's all different types.

00:35:17.000 Yeah.

00:35:17.000 You know, some are heavily edited, which always brings me out.

00:35:20.000 If there's a way to keep it so you feel like you're in the room.

00:35:22.000 Right. 0.98

00:35:23.000 You know, I remember it was a Mr. Tambourine Man or the Chris Rock special where when he changed the tone of it and he started talking about jerking off to porn and how he became addicted to porn. 0.86

00:35:32.000 And it was that great filmmaker who's a comedian who does music.

00:35:38.000 He did that thing during COVID when he was in his house.

00:35:42.000 Bo Burnham.

00:35:43.000 Bo Burnham.

00:35:44.000 I think he directed it.

00:35:45.000 And the camera just keeps going on, keeps going on.

00:35:47.000 By the time you don't even realize it because you're hypnotized, you're right here on Chris Rock.

00:35:52.000 And I think probably subconsciously, just thinking about it now, that's probably one of the things because that's kind of the frame I use the whole time on Alex. 0.98

00:36:00.000 But I remember watching it going, like, when the fuck did this become a close-up? 0.69

00:36:04.000 But that's what it was happening. 0.97

00:36:04.000 You know? 0.97

00:36:06.000 So there was a synergy between the camera and what he was doing in the place.

00:36:10.000 Or at least made me feel like cinematically I was there and this is what he was doing, hypnotizing me.

00:36:16.000 Right.

00:36:16.000 And then the opposite of that was the special that Chris Rock did where he changed clothes.

00:36:22.000 So he was doing a special where he filmed part of it in one place and another part of it in another place.

00:36:28.000 And he spliced the two of them together with different outfits.

00:36:32.000 So you would have him begin a bit with one outfit on and then end a bit with a different outfit.

00:36:37.000 And you're like, whose idea was this?

00:36:40.000 Because the minute you cut and edit in any way, you know, even podcasts audio-wise, that's the thing I've learned.

00:36:40.000 Yeah.

00:36:46.000 You know, some people, you know, they edit the audio of a podcast and you're like, that's not, someone didn't take a breath before they answered.

00:36:52.000 Oh, like cutting out in between.

00:36:54.000 Yeah, it's a whole other rhythm.

00:36:56.000 Well, that's the YouTube thing, right?

00:36:56.000 Right.

00:36:58.000 YouTube for a long time was doing these things where they would cut out all the pauses in between people talking things.

00:37:05.000 And it became like a style of editing.

00:37:07.000 Where it's like shocking.

00:37:07.000 Right.

00:37:09.000 For my ears, it's impossible for me to get in.

00:37:12.000 Right.

00:37:13.000 It's just impossible.

00:37:14.000 Well, it's the short attention span concept. 1.00

00:37:17.000 You're just saying people are so fucking stupid, you can't give many breaks. 1.00

00:37:17.000 Right. 1.00

00:37:20.000 You can't give many breaths.

00:37:21.000 You got to keep talking, keep talking, keep talking.

00:37:22.000 And then you do it.

00:37:25.000 After a while, it's just like this wash.

00:37:26.000 And yeah.

00:37:27.000 They're just trying to keep you engaged as much as possible by editing instead of by having actually interesting content.

00:37:35.000 Compelling content.

00:37:36.000 Yeah.

00:37:37.000 But it's an interesting exercise.

00:37:38.000 Yeah.

00:37:40.000 I enjoy watching.

00:37:41.000 Like, I think Josh Safdy did Sandler's one, and he was, and he did all this backstage, and he walked up, and then he was in many locations, but he was playing music a lot.

00:37:50.000 Yeah, I just like watching everybody's different, you know, sort of exploration of different stand-up shows because it's such a huge, viable market.

00:37:57.000 So people, you know, it's fun to watch how they do it.

00:37:59.000 I think that's probably why, because I watched so many of them, I wanted to do it in a way in a movie.

00:38:04.000 Have you done stand-up at all?

00:38:05.000 Never, never, never.

00:38:06.000 Never?

00:38:06.000 No.

00:38:07.000 Have you thought about it?

00:38:08.000 When you were doing the film, did you think about doing that?

00:38:10.000 No, no.

00:38:11.000 No?

00:38:13.000 Yeah, and I don't know why, Joe.

00:38:14.000 Yeah.

00:38:15.000 But no, I just, it's not like one of those things that I feel compelled to do.

00:38:21.000 But would it be fun?

00:38:22.000 Would I be scared?

00:38:23.000 All those things.

00:38:24.000 Will I try an open mic one night?

00:38:26.000 Yeah, I probably should.

00:38:28.000 But it's not, I didn't feel compelled to do it.

00:38:31.000 No.

00:38:31.000 The problem would be if you did it and it went okay, but you're like, I think I could do better.

00:38:37.000 And then I'm and then you're gone.

00:38:40.000 You know me?

00:38:42.000 I know everybody.

00:38:43.000 It's kind of the same thing with all of us.

00:38:45.000 Yeah, of course, dude.

00:38:46.000 There's always a party.

00:38:46.000 You're like, I think I can do better.

00:38:48.000 And then next thing you know, like, I got to leave.

00:38:49.000 I got to go do a set. 1.00

00:38:51.000 What the fuck are you doing? 1.00

00:38:53.000 No, no, no, no. 1.00

00:38:53.000 Dad, I haven't eaten dinner. 1.00

00:38:56.000 It's like all artistic pursuits, they can become an obsession and they become an addiction and they become a part of you.

00:39:03.000 And then it's like your brain naturally goes towards that pathway of thinking about that thing all day.

00:39:10.000 Yeah.

00:39:10.000 Which I love.

00:39:12.000 Oh, it's great if it's a fun thing.

00:39:14.000 I remember being 11 and watching The Elephant Man and knowing at that moment.

00:39:18.000 Yeah, I'm sweating.

00:39:18.000 You okay?

00:39:19.000 I was going to take this.

00:39:20.000 Knowing at that moment that, like, oh, this is what I want to do for the rest of my life.

00:39:24.000 When you saw The Elephant Man?

00:39:25.000 Yeah.

00:39:25.000 Yeah, I remember.

00:39:25.000 Really?

00:39:26.000 How is it that movie?

00:39:28.000 I mean, I don't know.

00:39:29.000 I mean, I've thought about it a lot, obviously.

00:39:34.000 David Lynch directed it.

00:39:35.000 I remember the scene, Anthony Hopkins.

00:39:37.000 I loved film.

00:39:38.000 So I always loved film.

00:39:39.000 My dad loved film.

00:39:41.000 But it wasn't like a conscious thing where I was like, this is it.

00:39:44.000 And I remember, you know, in my living room, it's on the TV.

00:39:47.000 I saw all the movies on the TV.

00:39:49.000 You know, I never saw Apocalypse Now in a movie theater or Godfather or anything, Willingness, as long as it's runner or, you know, none of it.

00:39:56.000 It was all on the television.

00:39:58.000 And, but I was watching the elephant man.

00:40:00.000 It was on HBO.

00:40:00.000 It came through Philadelphia where I live, Comcast, and they would show like it all the time.

00:40:05.000 And it was Anthony Hopkins coming in and he's seeing Joseph Merrick, the elephant man, for the first time.

00:40:10.000 And the way David Lynch shot it, you only see his shadow.

00:40:13.000 And then Hopkins starts crying.

00:40:15.000 And I don't know.

00:40:16.000 I was just like, I was there in that cellar with him.

00:40:20.000 And I was like, I forgot I was in the living room.

00:40:22.000 And then the whole movie was like that.

00:40:24.000 And it came out.

00:40:25.000 I was like, I just want, I want that.

00:40:27.000 So was that like the first seed that was planted?

00:40:29.000 Yeah, that was it.

00:40:30.000 It was the first and only.

00:40:32.000 I was 11.

00:40:33.000 It was like, it was like, bam.

00:40:35.000 It was like a shot.

00:40:37.000 This is a scene right here.

00:40:39.000 Yeah, it's right.

00:40:40.000 This is it.

00:40:40.000 It's this.

00:40:42.000 Oh, look how young Anthony Hopkins looks.

00:40:48.000 Yeah, he was incredible.

00:40:50.000 Stand up.

00:40:50.000 Stand up. Turn around. Turn around.

00:41:29.000 Wow.

00:41:33.000 Wow.

00:41:34.000 That was it.

00:41:35.000 Yeah.

00:41:36.000 Wow.

00:41:39.000 What is it like watching that now?

00:41:41.000 Like thinking that that planted a seed that changed your whole life.

00:41:45.000 I'm like, well, first I thought, wasn't it a shadow?

00:41:47.000 But that was before.

00:41:47.000 And then I'm like, oh, yeah.

00:41:48.000 And then, yeah.

00:41:49.000 Then I was just in it.

00:41:50.000 Then all of a sudden I was there.

00:41:51.000 Then I was like, is Joe in it?

00:41:52.000 Does he know what I'm talking about?

00:41:53.000 And then as my brain started going, the movie kept bringing me in it.

00:41:58.000 And then by the end, by that push-in, I was like, I'm just watching this guy look at this thing for the first time. 0.99

00:42:02.000 And then, fuck, look at this beast, Anthony Hopkins. 0.99

00:42:04.000 I wonder what he was looking at when he was crying. 1.00

00:42:06.000 I know.

00:42:07.000 You know, because pull that out of your eyeballs.

00:42:10.000 And I wrote, so I went to grad school, moved to New York, wrote him a letter because our dean said somehow he knew him or he had the school I went to that I only got into because they let anybody in.

00:42:23.000 They did that show inside the actor studio.

00:42:26.000 Do you remember that on TV on Bravo?

00:42:29.000 And so our thesis was, the show there was like our, not like our.

00:42:33.000 There was a class that, but it was a class, like technically a class, and so all these incredible people would come on and Anthony Hopkins was there and and I was there for that.

00:42:43.000 And then I wrote him a letter just telling him and I asked, James Lipton, that was his name.

00:42:47.000 The dean, yeah and uh, and then that you know, and then never, you know, I never heard from him ever.

00:42:53.000 And then you know, and now I know him.

00:42:56.000 Dude, It's so weird.

00:42:58.000 It's crazy.

00:42:59.000 It's so weird, right?

00:43:02.000 I never get over that.

00:43:03.000 Me neither.

00:43:04.000 Ever.

00:43:04.000 Meeting.

00:43:06.000 Ever.

00:43:06.000 And there's some guys.

00:43:08.000 I don't know if you feel this way too, but like there's some guys, like, then they become your friends.

00:43:12.000 But still, I still feel a little bit of extra energy when I'm around them.

00:43:17.000 Like, it'll never go away.

00:43:19.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:43:19.000 Right.

00:43:20.000 It's crazy.

00:43:21.000 For me, one of the big ones was Tarantino.

00:43:23.000 Like, oh, hanging out with Tarantino.

00:43:24.000 Yeah, that would be nuts.

00:43:25.000 It's so odd.

00:43:26.000 Going to dinner with him.

00:43:27.000 Yeah, it's crazy.

00:43:28.000 Hanging out with him here.

00:43:29.000 Him coming to the club.

00:43:30.000 He come hang out, hang out in the green room.

00:43:32.000 That's nuts.

00:43:32.000 It's just weird.

00:43:33.000 It's like, that's Quentin Tarantino.

00:43:35.000 That's crazy.

00:43:36.000 Yeah, and it never goes away.

00:43:37.000 As close as you get, even when your brain's off, right?

00:43:40.000 Because that's always the lymphus.

00:43:41.000 Is my brain off when I'm with the person?

00:43:43.000 Right.

00:43:43.000 That's like when, like, okay.

00:43:45.000 Right.

00:43:46.000 And even like Clint Eastwood, who I did American Sniper with, I mean, it was always Clint Eastwood.

00:43:51.000 And I got to a point where my brain was off, you know, but still, I'm just like, what?

00:43:55.000 If my dad was alive, if my dad was alive, he would flip the fuck out. 0.96

00:44:01.000 What was it like doing that scene with the fake baby? 0.97

00:44:03.000 Oh, was that weird?

00:44:04.000 It's so funny.

00:44:05.000 I was just talking about that two days ago, dude.

00:44:07.000 And you know, I've come full circle.

00:44:10.000 I actually think it's dope.

00:44:11.000 Really? 0.99

00:44:13.000 I think it's fucking die because it's so just like, wow, look at these people fully invested and it's a doll. 0.99

00:44:23.000 It's like a scene where you're like kind of like moving the handle. 0.99

00:44:26.000 I could tell you the whole thing, dude.

00:44:28.000 So we had three sets of twins and Clint likes to shoot fast, which I love and love.

00:44:36.000 And they were crying and they weren't ready.

00:44:38.000 And he was like, you know what?

00:44:39.000 Let's just let's put let's put the doll in. 0.97

00:44:42.000 And I was like, okay.

00:44:43.000 I was like, all right.

00:44:44.000 And I have the doll.

00:44:45.000 And I remember, and I made a joke on set.

00:44:47.000 And I was like, I'll just save you 35 grand because I moved his hand with my thumb.

00:44:54.000 You know, like I save visual effects like 50 grand, like made a joke about it.

00:44:58.000 And then we got to post and we were in Vancouver doing the meeting.

00:45:03.000 But, you know, everybody defers to the boss.

00:45:06.000 I still remember being in a room and I'm like a theater we're watching and they're like, okay, Clint, so we did this and, you know, the tank has dirt on it.

00:45:13.000 And, you know, whatever visual effects they had done.

00:45:16.000 We get to the baby.

00:45:18.000 They're like, okay, Clint, this is this scene.

00:45:21.000 And it ends.

00:45:22.000 And I'm literally behind Clint.

00:45:23.000 I just see the back of his head and I'm waiting for everybody to raise their hand.

00:45:28.000 Like, we got to spend more money to make the kid real.

00:45:31.000 And I think the kid had like two fingers too.

00:45:33.000 Like, they weren't even, it was like an AA.

00:45:35.000 There it is.

00:45:35.000 Yeah.

00:45:36.000 That's me.

00:45:36.000 That's it.

00:45:36.000 Yeah.

00:45:37.000 I'm doing that.

00:45:38.000 That's it.

00:45:41.000 But dude, it's kind of dope.

00:45:44.000 I love it now.

00:45:45.000 I've come full circle.

00:45:46.000 So, so, and I raised my hand and I was like, Clint, I just think that it's clear, you know, that that's not a baby.

00:45:54.000 And what would we, can we at least just find out what the cost would be?

00:45:58.000 And no one, and no one said anything.

00:46:00.000 And then I remember he was like, I think I think we move on.

00:46:04.000 Wow.

00:46:05.000 And that was it, dude.

00:46:06.000 And that was it.

00:46:07.000 And I was like, okay, okay.

00:46:09.000 And I remember talking to the other producer.

00:46:11.000 I was like, this is going to come back.

00:46:13.000 I was like, bro, this is going to come back to haunt us.

00:46:15.000 And I remember he said, no, Bradley, you're too close to the movie.

00:46:18.000 I was like, I don't think so, dude.

00:46:19.000 No, everybody was like, oh, he's moving his thumb.

00:46:22.000 This is crazy.

00:46:23.000 That's a rubber baby.

00:46:24.000 That's crazy, dude.

00:46:25.000 There's another one, too.

00:46:27.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:46:28.000 Yeah, it's crazy.

00:46:29.000 What is it like doing a film like that where you're playing an actual human being?

00:46:34.000 Is that different than a written character that has no physical body that you can kind of become who you think the words represent?

00:46:45.000 But when you're playing a guy like Chris Kyle, you're playing a human.

00:46:49.000 Yeah.

00:46:50.000 And you're trying to figure out a way to make it as realistic as possible, but you're acting.

00:46:57.000 Like, what is that like?

00:46:58.000 I mean, the thing that just popped in my head is the pressure is it's like night and day.

00:47:04.000 Because there are people that you have to serve.

00:47:11.000 You know, especially with Chris Kyle.

00:47:13.000 We started making that movie.

00:47:14.000 He was alive.

00:47:16.000 He got killed while he was still negotiating with Warner Brothers.

00:47:20.000 I know, I think we just closed his deal.

00:47:23.000 And then he was murdered on February 2nd, I believe.

00:47:28.000 And it was just like, whoa.

00:47:30.000 And then, but in fact, we were like, now we really got to make this movie.

00:47:34.000 And then Clint and I flew to Midlothian, Texas, and met with his family and his widow and his parents and then the kids.

00:47:42.000 And I had played, I did the Elephant Man.

00:47:45.000 I did it as a play in my thesis in grad school.

00:47:47.000 And then I did it at Williamstown.

00:47:48.000 And then I actually did it in New York and London.

00:47:50.000 So, and that, and even though it's a long time ago, that was the first time I felt that responsibility because I actually loved that guy, Joseph Merrick.

00:47:57.000 And I did, and I felt that responsibility to him.

00:48:00.000 So I had done something like that before.

00:48:03.000 But this was the first, this was the next time.

00:48:06.000 It was massive, Joe.

00:48:07.000 But I think that, it's like you're always looking for what's the fuel that's going to allow me to work as hard as I can.

00:48:14.000 And the fuel when you're playing a real person is like, there's like four extra canisters or like vats of firepower for you to work hard.

00:48:23.000 Because you just, you know, you're looking across at the eyes of somebody and say, I'm going to serve your son or your husband or your father.

00:48:31.000 It's a major responsibility.

00:48:32.000 Maybe even more major because now he's deceased.

00:48:35.000 Yeah.

00:48:37.000 It was mind-blowing.

00:48:40.000 But it terrified me.

00:48:41.000 And also, like, I'm 185 pounds at that point from Northeast Philadelphia.

00:48:47.000 This guy's from Midlothian, Texas, SEAL Team 3.

00:48:50.000 You know, it's like, how, and the way Clint works and the way we did work, you know, Kevin Lace, who was a SEAL team three with Chris, was in the movie, played Dauber.

00:48:59.000 Jacob Schick was one tribe, which is what I'm wearing. 0.92

00:49:01.000 He was a Marine.

00:49:02.000 Did you ever see American Sniper?

00:49:03.000 Yes.

00:49:04.000 Yeah, there's that scene where he goes to the hospital and there's all the guys that have been wounded.

00:49:07.000 Jacob Schick is one of them.

00:49:09.000 You know, so there's real guys.

00:49:10.000 It's all real.

00:49:12.000 So I step in.

00:49:13.000 You know, I've got to, I'm going to die unless I believe I'm Chris.

00:49:19.000 Right.

00:49:19.000 Like, so I have to do whatever I can so that I believe I'm Chris.

00:49:24.000 If I believe I'm Chris, then I have a shot at everybody else potentially going along with this illusion.

00:49:31.000 I just have to, I have to be absolutely fearless when I walked on set.

00:49:35.000 So I just, it just made me work so hard that I had never worked hard.

00:49:39.000 That if it's a created character, you know, it's different.

00:49:44.000 But it comes with a different set of challenges.

00:49:46.000 You know, it just depends on what it is.

00:49:48.000 But I do know.

00:49:48.000 And then with Leonard Bernstein, I did the same thing.

00:49:50.000 Huge responsibility, like massive that I felt to his kids, to people that loved him.

00:49:58.000 But mainly his kids.

00:49:59.000 All three, his son has passed away since.

00:50:01.000 But his three kids are like, okay.

00:50:03.000 You know, they're like handing you, you know, it's like if someone went to your daughter in 12 years and said, here's this movie about your father.

00:50:10.000 Do you know what I mean?

00:50:11.000 Yeah.

00:50:12.000 You know, and this guy's sitting across and be like, okay, I'm going to play your father.

00:50:17.000 That's just a whole other thing.

00:50:19.000 Because the truth is, like, if it's good, it's going to last a long time.

00:50:23.000 And it's going to be a thing that marks their journey.

00:50:27.000 So I'm a part of whatever little part of Chris's journey.

00:50:30.000 So you give somebody, the faith that whoever has the power to give to that artist is just, you know.

00:50:38.000 So it just made me work.

00:50:39.000 You know, like you just, you just don't stop working till you get to the point where you believe you're him.

00:50:43.000 Or you believe that he's a part of you.

00:50:46.000 Something's working.

00:50:47.000 Did you meet Chris Kyle?

00:50:48.000 Just talked to him on the phone once.

00:50:48.000 Never.

00:50:50.000 Oh, wow.

00:50:51.000 So what did you like?

00:50:51.000 Yeah.

00:50:53.000 Did you train?

00:50:55.000 Like, what did you do to try to like.

00:50:55.000 Oh, yeah.

00:50:57.000 Well, here's, it's interesting, right?

00:50:57.000 Yeah.

00:50:59.000 It's like, well, I couldn't do anything that would ever achieve what he achieved, but it's like, what can I do to look like a master?

00:51:06.000 So there's three weapons, the 338 Lapua, the 50 Cal, the rifle.

00:51:06.000 Right?

00:51:13.000 It's like, what can I do?

00:51:14.000 How much time do I have?

00:51:15.000 And I think I had like six months.

00:51:17.000 Also, luckily, we're the same shoe size, same age.

00:51:20.000 He has a hole in his ear.

00:51:21.000 I do.

00:51:22.000 You find things that like, you know, same height.

00:51:25.000 I was like, oh, this is great.

00:51:28.000 And then I just like, but he's 238 pounds.

00:51:30.000 So the first thing was 6,000 calories a day.

00:51:32.000 Found a trainer.

00:51:33.000 6,000?

00:51:34.000 Yeah, 6,000 calories.

00:51:36.000 So first I did it with real food, and that was a big mistake because I couldn't get up.

00:51:42.000 Remember, it's the first week I did it.

00:51:43.000 I had an incredible chef.

00:51:46.000 And then I couldn't get up.

00:51:48.000 Like, I couldn't move my stomach.

00:51:50.000 So then I think we split like half of it into protein shakes.

00:51:54.000 But it was still 6,000 calories.

00:51:55.000 When you say he couldn't get up, like when you get it.

00:51:56.000 I mean, my stomach wasn't able to process that much food.

00:52:00.000 Yeah, whatever happened.

00:52:02.000 I was just getting blocked.

00:52:03.000 Getting blocked.

00:52:04.000 Like major pain.

00:52:05.000 Like I was giving birth or something, what I would imagine.

00:52:08.000 So then we change it and it would be like huge meal, shake, huge meal, shake.

00:52:13.000 Worked out twice a day.

00:52:15.000 I had three rest days, no cardio.

00:52:17.000 It was all about strength training.

00:52:19.000 And it was all focused around deadlifting.

00:52:22.000 Oh, okay.

00:52:23.000 And it was a guy, Jason Walsh, who I worked with.

00:52:26.000 And I did that.

00:52:27.000 Yes, it would be like Monday, 5.30 a.m. and then a 4.30 p.m. or like 3.30, Monday, Tuesday, rest Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, rest Saturday, Sunday, and did that.

00:52:38.000 And I got up to 238 pounds.

00:52:40.000 And a lot of it was like, because I was thinking about him, his neck.

00:52:43.000 So I came like, I would do all these, all the neck stuff.

00:52:46.000 And it was his shoulders. 0.97

00:52:47.000 Like, I just wanted so you could shoot over.

00:52:49.000 And it's like, you know, which we did all the time in the movie where the guy's just, you know, Chris.

00:52:53.000 Yeah.

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00:54:21.000 How much weight did you gain?

00:54:22.000 I went from 185 to 238.

00:54:24.000 Yeah.

00:54:24.000 Whoa.

00:54:24.000 And all naturally, because cancer's in my family, I've had skin cancer, and like I'm terrified of anything.

00:54:30.000 So I was like, not going to do that.

00:54:34.000 Did you take creatine or anything?

00:54:34.000 So, you know.

00:54:36.000 Took creatine, yeah.

00:54:37.000 Which, by the way, I just started again like three months ago.

00:54:40.000 Oh, it's amazing.

00:54:41.000 Dude, I'm on this push-up thread with a bunch of dads at my school, and we do 100 push-ups a day.

00:54:48.000 And if we don't, you have to pay $10 into a pool.

00:54:49.000 And then when we get to 800, we go to Chinatown and I'll have a meal with the money.

00:54:53.000 And then I started taking creatine like two and a half months ago.

00:54:56.000 And we just upped it to 150.

00:54:58.000 I was like, this is, because I could only do, and we like YouTube the perfect push-up, which I didn't know, which is like a whole other world.

00:55:04.000 And then now it's like, it's, I mean, creatine is incredible.

00:55:08.000 It's incredible for your brain.

00:55:09.000 I know.

00:55:10.000 I've heard you say that.

00:55:11.000 Like, I can't tell that because I also take Zins all the time.

00:55:14.000 So it's like, I don't know what's doing it.

00:55:16.000 Yeah, me too.

00:55:19.000 But, but, yeah, where was I on the Chris thing?

00:55:23.000 You're talking about gaining weight.

00:55:24.000 Oh, yeah.

00:55:25.000 So then I worked with 38.

00:55:26.000 And I worked with the guy who, so I was doing that in conjunction with learning about sniping and working with Kevin Lace, this guy, Dauber.

00:55:34.000 We would go up to the Disney Ranch and work with like 600-yard head targets prone that I would just do all the time.

00:55:40.000 And then once we cast the rest of the team, we did all this stuff.

00:55:43.000 But really, Kevin Lace, this guy Dauber, was the guy because he was there.

00:55:47.000 And he was there through the whole shooting, just so everything would be real.

00:55:50.000 And we just drilled it.

00:55:51.000 We became a group.

00:55:52.000 Like, you know, we did the work.

00:55:53.000 But it wasn't so much about like, I was like, I have this amount of time.

00:55:56.000 Doing like sealed boot camp will do nothing for me.

00:56:00.000 Like, that'll just give me the brain of like how hard this is and will I be broken.

00:56:03.000 I've done us, not that I couldn't have, not maybe I would have been broken, but I felt like I do understand that.

00:56:09.000 Like I've been through certain things where like I understand what it's like to push myself to be on my breaking point and what that looks like and feels like.

00:56:18.000 What I don't know is when I'm looking at a target and I have to factor in the, you know, the curve of the earth.

00:56:24.000 You know, like that's the stuff I want to learn.

00:56:27.000 Yeah.

00:56:28.000 So that's where I focused was those three weapons, you know, live rounds, gaining the weight.

00:56:33.000 So I felt like I was with here we go.

00:56:36.000 We're back.

00:56:38.000 That's like all of a sudden you're like, oh, you didn't take the drug?

00:56:44.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:56:47.000 Like, no, I'm not on it.

00:56:49.000 And then, and then, so it was those two things in conjunction.

00:56:52.000 The curve of the earth is nuts.

00:56:54.000 You have to think about that.

00:56:55.000 Long distance changes.

00:56:55.000 It's crazy.

00:56:56.000 And then the fact that this guy stayed up 24 hours would pee in there, you know, never get up to pee, just pee right there, right in the room.

00:57:02.000 You know, I mean, I said no.

00:57:04.000 And then, by the way, it's a human being.

00:57:05.000 I mean, it's just, forget it.

00:57:08.000 And then just working with this guy, Tim Monica on like his voice.

00:57:12.000 To me, it's all the voice is everything.

00:57:13.000 It's all about the voice and like where he's from.

00:57:15.000 And Chris was interesting because his accent started to change.

00:57:18.000 You know, because he, once he got out, and then he did that, he did a couple of shows.

00:57:23.000 You know, he wrote that book, which is how I came across and then gave it to Glint.

00:57:28.000 So he had an interesting accent that kind of changed a little bit.

00:57:31.000 But yeah, just the voice, just hitting the voice.

00:57:33.000 I would work this guy five days a week, you know, you know, and I had tons of stuff.

00:57:39.000 I had so much information that Taya Kyle had been so generous to give me.

00:57:44.000 So many home videos, you know, correspondence.

00:57:48.000 You know, I used to work out to his, which I just did the other day.

00:57:51.000 I hadn't, it's so funny we're talking about this.

00:57:53.000 I literally just did it two days ago, worked out to his playlist.

00:57:56.000 I had both of his workout playlists.

00:57:58.000 Oh, wow.

00:57:59.000 And I blew up two huge posters.

00:58:02.000 And one was him just like this and one with his gun.

00:58:05.000 And I would do that and look at him every morning.

00:58:07.000 It was just like this beautiful ritual that I felt like I was with him every day.

00:58:10.000 How long did you take to prepare?

00:58:13.000 I'd have to look back.

00:58:14.000 I think I did it fast, but I think we had about six months or five months.

00:58:17.000 But like, you know, full on, that's it, nothing else.

00:58:19.000 I didn't have a kid back then.

00:58:20.000 It was like, that was it.

00:58:21.000 Yeah.

00:58:22.000 Yeah.

00:58:23.000 That's, there's, there's something very unique about someone doing a film about an actual person.

00:58:29.000 Yeah.

00:58:29.000 Like a great actor doing like De Niro when he played Jake LaMada, Raging Bull.

00:58:34.000 Of course.

00:58:34.000 Like that, that was one of the first.

00:58:37.000 I mean, he became a different person.

00:58:40.000 Yeah, you have to.

00:58:40.000 Yeah.

00:58:41.000 Yeah.

00:58:42.000 You have to, if there's like a merging of you and that, whatever that idea or the soul, whatever of the person, it sounds so hokey.

00:58:49.000 You know, I get it.

00:58:50.000 But if you ask me what my memory is of, of making a sniper, like memory like on in scenes, it's not that like I was acting.

00:59:00.000 It's just, that's not my memory.

00:59:03.000 What is the memory?

00:59:04.000 Of like, okay, now we're going to do this.

00:59:05.000 And it's like me as him doing it.

00:59:08.000 Wow.

00:59:09.000 You know, that's. 0.99

00:59:10.000 Is that a mind fuck when you stop when like the movie? 1.00

00:59:14.000 Well, the good thing is you do a Clint who takes the piss out of fucking everything. 1.00

00:59:17.000 Oh, does he? 1.00

00:59:18.000 So, yes, we would go to dinner at night.

00:59:21.000 And I learned from Christian Bale in American Hustle, like he just stayed in, because I didn't understand this, stay in the character all the time.

00:59:27.000 You know, you hear these stories, but you don't know what the real is.

00:59:29.000 Like, how does that work?

00:59:30.000 You see a cell phone?

00:59:31.000 Do you like lose your mind?

00:59:32.000 Like, how do you, what is it?

00:59:34.000 How do you do it?

00:59:35.000 And it's like, oh, I overthought it.

00:59:36.000 Bale would just stay.

00:59:38.000 He played this character that's from New York in American Hustle.

00:59:42.000 And I go in there.

00:59:43.000 The first day I met him, he was his accent. 1.00

00:59:45.000 And the rest of the movie, even like on weekends, it was him, Christian.

00:59:49.000 And we would talk about stuff and this kid, but he would just speak in that voice.

00:59:53.000 And I was like, oh, it's that simple.

00:59:55.000 Like, it's not some big thing.

00:59:57.000 Like, once you get the voice.

00:59:58.000 That is weird.

00:59:59.000 But I took it.

01:00:00.000 I mean, and it's wonderful.

01:00:01.000 Because then you feel like you're not acting and you're in the voice.

01:00:04.000 And I do it all.

01:00:05.000 So I would be in that voice of Chris for the whole movie.

01:00:08.000 And then we would go to like a restaurant when we were up in Lancaster shooting or something.

01:00:11.000 And Clint would then make fun of me and my accent as Chris and order a steak.

01:00:15.000 And it was just, it was great. 0.99

01:00:18.000 He's fucking sabotaging your performance. 0.99

01:00:21.000 He's making you self-conscious. 1.00

01:00:23.000 That's crazy.

01:00:24.000 It was awesome.

01:00:24.000 That's crazy.

01:00:26.000 I always wondered what it's like to be around someone as like method.

01:00:29.000 But I don't know.

01:00:30.000 Method is also a term that, you know.

01:00:33.000 What does it mean?

01:00:34.000 Well, the method, it started in Russia, right?

01:00:36.000 And then, you know, that book on acting that I should know, you know, what's his name?

01:00:45.000 He came and then the group theater started and it was like, you know, and all these people then disbanded and there's Harry Meisner and there's yeah, Stanislavski, exactly.

01:00:54.000 And there was this other guy, Bach Tangoff, that also talked about every rehearsal.

01:00:58.000 It's very interesting.

01:00:59.000 And I read all this in grad school.

01:01:01.000 And then the group theater came in and then Ilya Kazan was a huge part of it becoming popular because you had this guy that was sweeping floors of the actor studio and then started directing plays and then all of a sudden he's a huge movie director and he's putting Marlon Brando, who was part of the actor studio, starring in his movies, you know, and he's doing, and so it all just sort of erupted.

01:01:21.000 But then it branched out.

01:01:23.000 And so there's people that are dogmatic about it, about it's only using your, you know, you're substituting.

01:01:28.000 So if I'm doing a scene with you, like, you aren't you, you're my brother, you know, but but it's evolved into, it's like what works for you.

01:01:35.000 To me, it's like you use your, your own experience plus your imagination, you know, but that's, that's the sort, that's the, you know, sort of a very layman's 50-second, you know, telling of what the origin of the method is.

01:01:50.000 But I went to the actor studio, which is based in the method.

01:01:53.000 That's where I went to grad school.

01:01:56.000 Is it easy? 0.95

01:01:56.000 And it's very valuable because I didn't know shit before that. 0.95

01:01:59.000 I mean, I did a couple of plays at Georgetown. 0.96

01:02:01.000 I didn't know anything.

01:02:02.000 I mean, I just loved acting, but I didn't do anything about it.

01:02:04.000 I was terrified as a kid.

01:02:06.000 Like, we did this thing in high school where we had to, as seniors, we would put on our show where we would make fun of our teachers.

01:02:12.000 And I like, I could do my Latin teacher, Mr. Burke.

01:02:15.000 I was like, and I actually sang in it.

01:02:17.000 And I was like, but I was terrified, Joe, for the whole year, sleepless nights for a year leading up to it.

01:02:22.000 That's how scared I was in public.

01:02:23.000 I remember doing like a fifth grade presentation with the poster boards about Locken Hobbes and the poster shaking so hard because I was because I was so nervous.

01:02:31.000 I was like, how am I going to, what's this fear thing?

01:02:33.000 Isn't that weird?

01:02:34.000 I know.

01:02:35.000 But then in college, I did a couple of plays, but I still didn't know what I was doing, but I loved it.

01:02:39.000 And I was like little stuff.

01:02:40.000 I was like Azalon, the server in Dangerous Liaisons.

01:02:43.000 But I still remember like I closed the door in a rhythmic way and people laughed.

01:02:48.000 And I remember I was like, ooh, oh, this feels good.

01:02:52.000 And then, and then, so I applied to grad school there.

01:02:56.000 And then all of a sudden, it was like I got a huge foundation of like what I could do.

01:03:01.000 You know, that your insecurities are actually your attributes, your fears are stuff that, you know, all this thing that you're a sensitive kid.

01:03:07.000 This is all good stuff.

01:03:09.000 And I never felt that way before about any of that.

01:03:11.000 And I had this teacher, Elizabeth Kemp, who was incredible, who then passed away in my house years later.

01:03:17.000 She got sick.

01:03:18.000 Yes, crazy. 0.97

01:03:19.000 Passed away in your house?

01:03:20.000 Yeah, in Venice, California.

01:03:21.000 She was sick, so we put her hospice there.

01:03:23.000 But she was incredible.

01:03:25.000 And she did this basic technique class. 0.97

01:03:26.000 And it was the first time ever.

01:03:29.000 Because I didn't, you know, grow up therapy or none of that was even in the vicinity of talking about your feelings.

01:03:36.000 I loved my dad, but I grew up in the 80s in Northeast Philadelphia with an Irish-Italian upbringing.

01:03:42.000 That wasn't part of the deal.

01:03:46.000 And then all of a sudden in grad school with other guys and women and we're like laying down and she wants us to go through an experience of loss and betrayal when we were children. 0.99

01:03:54.000 And it's like, what the fuck? 0.98

01:03:56.000 And actually I could take all that stuff I've been ashamed of and I could use it and bring it into art. 0.99

01:04:00.000 I don't know, it really clicked with me in a huge way.

01:04:05.000 So, and I use it even to this day.

01:04:06.000 All the movies I do, I always get the actors together and do like a workshop for a week that's based on dreams that she also taught me.

01:04:13.000 And I just find it invaluable.

01:04:15.000 Any way you can just, how can I just get to a place where we're just talking to each other and I don't, you know, and that all this stuff I feel, it's okay.

01:04:23.000 Right.

01:04:24.000 Right.

01:04:24.000 Yeah.

01:04:25.000 Well, you're doing a guy like Chris, it must also be kind of easier to keep the accent than to try to re-establish it right before every scene.

01:04:33.000 You just said it.

01:04:34.000 It's a logical thing.

01:04:35.000 Yeah.

01:04:36.000 It's a logical thing.

01:04:36.000 That's it.

01:04:38.000 The idea of me talking with an accent or even thinking that it's an accent because you don't think about it anymore.

01:04:43.000 The whole point is I'm not doing an act.

01:04:45.000 If I'm doing a scene with you and I'm thinking about how I'm talking, it's over.

01:04:49.000 It's a wrap.

01:04:50.000 It's not real.

01:04:51.000 But if I'm just talking to you and it happens to be the voice that I've been working on for however long time, then we're in it.

01:04:58.000 We got a shot.

01:04:59.000 And if I'm stopping it, there's no way I'm not thinking about.

01:05:03.000 So yes, Joe, that is the reason.

01:05:06.000 You know what's a really underappreciated talent is voice actors who do audiobooks.

01:05:13.000 I was watching a video of this guy because I never knew how they did it.

01:05:17.000 And I kind of assumed that whenever they had to change accents, they probably had a pause where they were.

01:05:25.000 But there's a video of a guy doing the voiceover for Lord of the Rings, the Lord of the Rings audiobook.

01:05:31.000 And he goes into Smeagle.

01:05:33.000 He goes into the Gollum character while he's doing narration.

01:05:36.000 There's no break.

01:05:37.000 He just smoothly transitions into Smeague. 0.99

01:05:41.000 It's fucking incredible. 0.99

01:05:42.000 And it's nuts. 0.99

01:05:43.000 It is absolutely masterful and completely underappreciated.

01:05:48.000 Yeah, I agree with you.

01:05:49.000 Because if you watch this guy do it, I don't know the gentleman's name who's the voiceover actor, but I love audiobooks.

01:05:56.000 That guy, listen to this guy.

01:05:58.000 Oh, it's Andy Serkin.

01:06:00.000 Was holding a debate with some other thought that used the same voice, but made it squeak and hiss.

01:06:08.000 A pale light and a green light alternated in his eyes as he spoke.

01:06:20.000 Smear.

01:06:21.000 He premised.

01:06:24.000 said the first thought yes yes my precious came the answer Amazing. 0.99

01:06:35.000 Fucking amazing. 0.99

01:06:37.000 What a master. 0.95

01:06:39.000 Love it.

01:06:40.000 Love it.

01:06:41.000 And you're talking about a master actor.

01:06:43.000 Yes.

01:06:43.000 Yeah, you know, because he's been in a lot of movies.

01:06:45.000 He's directed.

01:06:46.000 He directed that great movie that was like Jungle Book, a version of Jungle Book that Christian Bale actually played the Panther, I believe.

01:06:52.000 He's incredible.

01:06:54.000 And I got to meet him.

01:06:55.000 He's like, this guy's like a one-off generational talent. 0.93

01:06:58.000 Yeah, he's insane.

01:07:00.000 You have to be to be that good at voiceover acting.

01:07:03.000 Yeah, and he's just a great actor.

01:07:05.000 Yeah, you have to be.

01:07:06.000 Yeah.

01:07:06.000 Yeah, I agree.

01:07:07.000 And my mother watches this. 0.84

01:07:09.000 She'll kill me that I'm saying. 0.98

01:07:12.000 My mother watches.

01:07:13.000 First of all, she loves Turkish soap opera.

01:07:15.000 So she watches everything.

01:07:16.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:07:16.000 She's Turkish.

01:07:17.000 Why them specifically?

01:07:19.000 She just, she graduated from Hallmark into Turkish scenery.

01:07:19.000 I don't know.

01:07:27.000 And then she's evolved even further.

01:07:30.000 She just watches a screen where there's two people, AI images, and it's just a person telling a story.

01:07:37.000 And I often come down making breakfast because when she stays with me in New York, she has the room down there.

01:07:41.000 And I'll be like making my daughter breakfast and I could hear it or I'll go to the bathroom, which is right next to her. 1.00

01:07:45.000 And I was like, wow, these guys, these voices.

01:07:47.000 I mean, because the guy's carrying it all.

01:07:49.000 It's just an image.

01:07:50.000 And she'll watch it for hours.

01:07:52.000 And I'm like, what's going to happen?

01:07:53.000 Is he going to make that?

01:07:54.000 Is the firm going to hire him?

01:07:56.000 Did she see the note?

01:07:58.000 Like, it's amazing.

01:07:59.000 I was like, yeah, it's really an art form.

01:08:01.000 Turkish.

01:08:02.000 I remember the first time I came down, I was like, oh, no, what happened?

01:08:02.000 Yeah.

01:08:06.000 Because I'm just hearing, I'm like, what happened?

01:08:08.000 And I walk in and I'm like, mom, what are you watching?

01:08:10.000 She's like, oh, no, this guy's the best actor in the world.

01:08:13.000 This guy.

01:08:14.000 And so she just reads the subtitles.

01:08:17.000 She did it for like, she's watched.

01:08:18.000 It's called.

01:08:20.000 Oh.

01:08:24.000 If you look up, he's like, what's it called?

01:08:28.000 Circle.

01:08:31.000 Is it dove, bird, bird, something?

01:08:36.000 How could I forget it?

01:08:38.000 Oh, baby.

01:08:39.000 Early bird.

01:08:39.000 Is that it?

01:08:40.000 Early bird?

01:08:41.000 Oh, yeah.

01:08:42.000 Oh, yeah.

01:08:43.000 Can you explain this?

01:08:44.000 So it's a soap.

01:08:45.000 It's a soap opera.

01:08:46.000 There's like 360 episodes.

01:08:48.000 She's watched them all like five, four times.

01:08:51.000 And she'll come in.

01:08:52.000 She'll like do a marathon session, come in to make some food. 1.00

01:08:55.000 She's like, this guy, just the way he moves.

01:08:59.000 This guy's the best actor.

01:09:01.000 That's him.

01:09:03.000 Yeah.

01:09:04.000 That's him.

01:09:05.000 Is it speaking in Turkish?

01:09:07.000 Oh, yeah.

01:09:08.000 Oh, yeah.

01:09:10.000 This looks like.

01:09:13.000 Yeah, that's it.

01:09:13.000 Yeah, there he is.

01:09:19.000 Yeah, there he is.

01:09:22.000 And so she likes this.

01:09:23.000 And she does the voiceover.

01:09:25.000 She reads the.

01:09:26.000 No, so that was the middle stage.

01:09:28.000 Now she's graduated to, it's different now where she just watches two AI images and it's a story.

01:09:34.000 But she did this for a good like eight years. 0.87

01:09:36.000 But why?

01:09:37.000 All through COVID.

01:09:38.000 Why was she into this?

01:09:39.000 I don't know.

01:09:40.000 She must have come across it one day somewhere and then that was it.

01:09:43.000 She just got hooked?

01:09:44.000 Oh, I mean, hooked isn't even the word.

01:09:47.000 Yeah.

01:09:48.000 By the way, it's pretty good.

01:09:51.000 You watch it?

01:09:51.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:09:52.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:09:53.000 Yeah, he's great.

01:09:53.000 And the woman in it is great too.

01:09:55.000 Yeah.

01:09:56.000 Do you consume a lot of films?

01:09:58.000 Do you watch a lot of videos?

01:09:59.000 I watch a lot of everything.

01:10:00.000 Yeah.

01:10:01.000 I love television films.

01:10:04.000 And then, you know, like eight months ago, I know I'm late to the game, came across Cross Podcasts.

01:10:10.000 Only eight months ago.

01:10:11.000 Yeah, pretty much.

01:10:12.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:10:13.000 That's interesting.

01:10:14.000 Isn't it?

01:10:14.000 Yeah.

01:10:15.000 Yeah.

01:10:16.000 What made you get into that?

01:10:20.000 I can't remember, but it was your podcast, and I'm trying to think what it was.

01:10:25.000 And then it was like, oh, and then I came.

01:10:27.000 And then, you know, once you watch something on your phone, it like suggests other things.

01:10:32.000 And then you had two guys on that I thought were really interesting.

01:10:35.000 And then they do a trigonometry.

01:10:37.000 Yeah, trigonometry.

01:10:38.000 I find that very fascinating.

01:10:39.000 Oh, they're great.

01:10:40.000 And so that's how it just started.

01:10:40.000 Yeah, great.

01:10:42.000 So now it's like a huge part of, like, I have this whole little thing.

01:10:44.000 Like, often I'll go to bed and my daughter's listening to your voice.

01:10:48.000 But I do put on headphones sometimes because I love just at the end of the day listening, listening or watching.

01:10:53.000 I'll put it on the side table.

01:10:55.000 Yeah, it's very podcasts are incredible and it's very soothing.

01:10:58.000 Very soothing.

01:10:59.000 That's interesting.

01:11:00.000 I hardly ever listen to them anymore.

01:11:02.000 I love TV.

01:11:03.000 I love it.

01:11:04.000 Yeah, I take in a lot of content.

01:11:06.000 Have you watched The Beast in Me on Netflix?

01:11:09.000 I did.

01:11:09.000 Claire Danes?

01:11:10.000 Oh, dude. 0.99

01:11:10.000 Holy shit, dude. 0.99

01:11:12.000 Dude. 0.99

01:11:13.000 And that guy, Carrie Russell's husband, Matthew Reese, dude.

01:11:18.000 The bad guy. 0.98

01:11:19.000 Yeah, how fucking good is that guy? 0.97

01:11:22.000 So I did a movie with him years ago called Burnt about a chef, and we had never met. 0.98

01:11:26.000 And there's a scene where my character, he was trying to get sober, and he went off the wagon.

01:11:31.000 And he goes into this guy, their old nemesis.

01:11:34.000 They were nemesis with each other, his restaurant after hours.

01:11:38.000 And it was like a pretty dark scene that we never met me and this guy, this actor, right?

01:11:44.000 Before we shot.

01:11:46.000 And I come in, and then I don't know what was, I was pretty locked in.

01:11:51.000 And there's one scene which wasn't really scripted.

01:11:53.000 And I took, you know, those sous vide bags and I put it over my head to try to, cause he's trying to kill himself.

01:11:59.000 Which, by the way, I was like, oh, this could work.

01:12:04.000 If I don't get help, those things are strong and tight.

01:12:07.000 And then we had this experience, Joe, where then he was ripping it off me, trying for me not to kill myself.

01:12:14.000 And I don't know him that well, but we had, that's the thing about like making art together.

01:12:18.000 Like, we had that.

01:12:20.000 It'll never, every time I see him, I've seen him maybe six times at like certain things or something.

01:12:26.000 I always feel like we're bonded forever, just based on this one experience that we had.

01:12:31.000 And he's an incredible actor.

01:12:33.000 He's just, and I, the end of that show, him and the end of it.

01:12:36.000 Oh, yeah, dude.

01:12:37.000 And Claire Danes is like. 0.96

01:12:38.000 Off the charts.

01:12:39.000 Did you see that show she did with Jesse Eisenberg?

01:12:42.000 What's that?

01:12:44.000 There's another series she did.

01:12:45.000 Homeland?

01:12:46.000 No, no, no.

01:12:47.000 It was like Fleischman, something with Fleischman.

01:12:50.000 Fleischman is in trouble.

01:12:51.000 Yeah, Fleischman.

01:12:52.000 No.

01:12:52.000 There's this.

01:12:53.000 She's incredible in that, too.

01:12:53.000 Yeah.

01:12:54.000 There's a scene where she's basically having a mental breakdown, and you're watching, and you're like, this can't be acting.

01:13:00.000 Fleischman is in trouble.

01:13:02.000 It's on FX.

01:13:02.000 Yeah.

01:13:04.000 I never even heard of this.

01:13:05.000 Yeah.

01:13:06.000 It's really good.

01:13:07.000 Yeah, I enjoyed it.

01:13:08.000 And I enjoyed her at the end.

01:13:09.000 There's one scene that really rocked me where I just fully.

01:13:13.000 I mean, this is like, I just saw this movie, Hamnet.

01:13:15.000 I don't know if you guys saw that or not.

01:13:16.000 No.

01:13:18.000 That's what I love about the movie.

01:13:19.000 So Jesse Buckley in this movie, she's basically playing the most difficult role ever, the loss and all that stuff.

01:13:26.000 And I fully, Joe, I'm watching it, sitting there, fully believing that this person is going through this.

01:13:33.000 Do you know what I mean?

01:13:34.000 When you do that, when I believe that you're actually going through it, I mean, that's it.

01:13:40.000 That's, and like, her performance in that movie is so she's so good, dude.

01:13:44.000 Dude, dude.

01:13:45.000 Are you talking about Claire Danes or Jesse Buckley now?

01:13:47.000 Jesse.

01:13:47.000 No, Claire Danes.

01:13:49.000 Claire Danes and Jesse Buckley.

01:13:49.000 Yeah.

01:13:50.000 Yeah, they're both amazing. 0.99

01:13:51.000 But Claire Danes is so good in The Beast in Me, there's moments where her fucking lips are trembling. 1.00

01:13:57.000 She's touched. 0.99

01:13:58.000 She's like, starting by the level.

01:14:00.000 She's right.

01:14:00.000 Touched her.

01:14:01.000 She's touched.

01:14:02.000 Yes.

01:14:02.000 No question.

01:14:04.000 No question.

01:14:04.000 Yeah.

01:14:05.000 She locks in in this very crazy way. 0.99

01:14:07.000 She was great in fucking Homeland, too. 0.99

01:14:09.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:14:10.000 She never saw Homeland.

01:14:11.000 Oh, it's great.

01:14:11.000 It's really good.

01:14:13.000 She just locks in. 0.99

01:14:14.000 She locks in in this very strange way where you fucking 100% believe her. 0.99

01:14:19.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:14:20.000 Like believe it behind the eyes.

01:14:21.000 That's the greatest.

01:14:22.000 I mean, that's the heroin for me in this industry.

01:14:25.000 It's like when you're around and you're creating this thing and it's just, and all of a sudden it's like, whoa.

01:14:29.000 Yeah.

01:14:30.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:14:30.000 Like, holy shit, it's happening. 0.99

01:14:32.000 But it's like I had this conversation with Ethan Hawk. 0.98

01:14:34.000 I was, because I was asking him about the thing.

01:14:37.000 But I felt like that with Will, just real quick.

01:14:38.000 You know, that vampire scene.

01:14:40.000 Because I was operating it, right?

01:14:42.000 I don't know how you felt watching it.

01:14:44.000 The scene when he was on stage.

01:14:45.000 At the very end.

01:14:46.000 Yes, yes, yes.

01:14:47.000 I was like, I fully believed it.

01:14:49.000 Yes. 0.98

01:14:50.000 And those people, and then when I went to the audience and they're just like because they didn't know what the fuck's going on. 0.99

01:14:55.000 Right. 0.98

01:14:56.000 Like, that was one of those moments I had on this movie where I was like, oh, my man is locked. 1.00

01:15:00.000 The fuck in. 1.00

01:15:00.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:15:01.000 Oh, 100%.

01:15:02.000 Yeah, 100%.

01:15:03.000 It was very uncomfortable for me.

01:15:04.000 You felt that.

01:15:06.000 Yes.

01:15:06.000 Oh, 100%.

01:15:07.000 Definitely.

01:15:09.000 I have this conversation with Ethan Hawk about that.

01:15:11.000 I go, what is happening when I believe someone?

01:15:14.000 Like, I was talking about the scene in that movie with him and Julia Roberts, about the scene with him and Kevin Bacon.

01:15:24.000 Yeah, when they go to the house.

01:15:25.000 And also, there's three guys in that scene.

01:15:29.000 And he's amazing.

01:15:29.000 Oh, my God.

01:15:30.000 Yeah, from Moonlight, and he's been in tons of stuff.

01:15:34.000 Green book.

01:15:35.000 I know him.

01:15:36.000 Yeah, Jamie will pull it up. 0.99

01:15:37.000 I can't, I'll fuck his name up if I pronounce it. 0.98

01:15:40.000 Sorry. 0.99

01:15:41.000 What is it?

01:15:42.000 Sorry, I wanna work in.

01:15:46.000 Oh, wow, it's a Marshall Ali.

01:15:47.000 That's it.

01:15:48.000 Marshall Ali.

01:15:49.000 Yes.

01:15:51.000 I believe it.

01:15:52.000 I know that's Kevin Bacon.

01:15:53.000 I know that's Ethan Hawkins. 1.00

01:15:54.000 I believe he's going to shoot him. 0.98

01:15:55.000 Yeah, no question. 0.99

01:15:56.000 I believe it.

01:15:57.000 I go, what is that?

01:15:57.000 Like, what is going on?

01:15:59.000 I go, because it's almost like a form of hypnosis.

01:16:03.000 And he's like, yes.

01:16:04.000 Yeah, that's it.

01:16:05.000 You have to actually be there.

01:16:09.000 You have to actually be there.

01:16:10.000 Like, yeah, you're saying the lines you're supposed to say.

01:16:14.000 But what's happening is like you really are there.

01:16:17.000 You really believe it.

01:16:18.000 And if you don't believe it, the audience doesn't believe it.

01:16:21.000 And we've all been there before.

01:16:22.000 Like one time I ate an edible and I went to go see one of those Marvel movies.

01:16:28.000 And in the middle, it was really high.

01:16:30.000 And while I was watching the movie, I was like, this guy's acting.

01:16:35.000 You know, it's just like, of course.

01:16:37.000 He just made, you know, you're really sensitive and tuned in.

01:16:40.000 I get angry because I'm like, I want to go on the ride.

01:16:42.000 I'm like the best watcher because when that thing starts, I want to go on the ride.

01:16:46.000 I want to go on the ride.

01:16:47.000 Yes.

01:16:48.000 Like him and Denzel in Training Day.

01:16:51.000 Yeah.

01:16:51.000 Like that, there's a few scenes where you're like, okay, this is really in the car.

01:16:56.000 Yes.

01:16:57.000 That's the one.

01:16:57.000 Oh, yeah.

01:16:58.000 This is really happening.

01:16:59.000 Like, this is real.

01:17:00.000 Yeah.

01:17:01.000 Edward Hawk's so good in that movie.

01:17:02.000 Yeah.

01:17:04.000 He's great.

01:17:04.000 Yeah, he's great and everything.

01:17:05.000 But he's sick in that movie.

01:17:07.000 But he's also, when you talk to him, you realize, okay, this is an actual artist.

01:17:11.000 Yeah, he's a unique dude.

01:17:12.000 Yeah.

01:17:13.000 He's not a guy trying to be a movie star.

01:17:13.000 Yeah.

01:17:15.000 He's an artist that does movies.

01:17:15.000 No.

01:17:18.000 Yeah, but I don't know how many people, I don't know.

01:17:21.000 It's like how many comedians who just want to be famous are going to.

01:17:24.000 I don't even know how you could do it.

01:17:25.000 You have to love it.

01:17:26.000 It's just too hard.

01:17:27.000 That's not enough of a fuel.

01:17:30.000 It's not.

01:17:31.000 That's just not enough fuel.

01:17:32.000 It won't take you far enough.

01:17:33.000 It's just not enough fuel to keep doing it.

01:17:35.000 Right.

01:17:36.000 Because if you don't love it, I think you would find it monotonous and maybe boring and tedious and inconsequential.

01:17:42.000 You're going on a road trip with an eighth of a tank of gas.

01:17:45.000 You're not going to make it.

01:17:46.000 You're stomping on the gas and trying to pull out of the parking lot, but it's not that.

01:17:46.000 You're not going to make it.

01:17:50.000 It's a long drive.

01:17:52.000 And my experience in the 26 years I've been in this is like most of the people, if not all, that I've worked with, they love it.

01:17:58.000 They love it.

01:17:58.000 Yes.

01:17:59.000 They have to.

01:18:00.000 Otherwise, yeah.

01:18:01.000 If you want to be great at something, you have to love it.

01:18:03.000 Yeah.

01:18:04.000 I can't imagine.

01:18:06.000 Because it's not even that you want to, yes, you want to be great at it, but you just love doing it.

01:18:09.000 Right.

01:18:10.000 That's it.

01:18:11.000 Right.

01:18:11.000 And the love is how it becomes great.

01:18:13.000 And then the fear is when you get famous or people get popular early, that can be confusing because you start to have like, I have to maintain a certain, you start getting careful.

01:18:25.000 Like, I was thinking about when you said, like, what is that thing when it just, it's hypnosis?

01:18:29.000 The key to that is willing to fail.

01:18:33.000 That's what I learned as an actor.

01:18:35.000 It's like, oh, yeah, just don't take it too seriously.

01:18:38.000 Here we go.

01:18:39.000 We're rolling the camera. 0.98

01:18:40.000 We can't fucking, let's just, here, let's see what happens. 0.98

01:18:42.000 I'm going to go out on a limb. 0.98

01:18:43.000 Maybe it won't work.

01:18:44.000 But, like, yeah, be willing to like completely fail.

01:18:48.000 And the minute you do that, it's like, oh.

01:18:48.000 Yeah.

01:18:52.000 And all of a sudden, there's this reservoir of space in your head and your soul to actually create even more of an imaginary circumstances. 0.99

01:19:01.000 Now, if you haven't done your work, you're fucked anyway. 0.93

01:19:04.000 But like, but once you're there, it's like, once you're like, oh, yeah, everybody, we could just fail. 0.99

01:19:08.000 Let's just, let's just fail.

01:19:09.000 How do you make sense?

01:19:10.000 Do you know what I'm saying?

01:19:11.000 100% makes sense.

01:19:12.000 It makes sense because the only way you're going to really find out what it is is to try it all kinds of things.

01:19:17.000 Yes.

01:19:18.000 Yeah.

01:19:19.000 I was just having the conversation, you know, Brian Cowan, our mutual friend, he texted me last night.

01:19:25.000 He's like, I got a new bit. 1.00

01:19:26.000 I just ate a dick. 0.99

01:19:27.000 I have to go up on stage with it tonight. 1.00

01:19:28.000 It's fucking terrible. 0.98

01:19:30.000 He goes, but I know there's something in there. 0.99

01:19:31.000 And we were talking on the phone right before the show. 1.00

01:19:33.000 He's like, dude, my fucking new bitch is bombed. 1.00

01:19:35.000 It ate a dick last night. 1.00

01:19:37.000 I don't know what to do. 1.00

01:19:38.000 But I know there's something there.

01:19:39.000 It's like, you've got to be willing to bomb. 1.00

01:19:43.000 You got to be willing to eat a dick. 1.00

01:19:45.000 If you don't, I don't know how. 1.00

01:19:46.000 Yeah, I don't know any.

01:19:47.000 If you're careful, it's over.

01:19:50.000 You can't.

01:19:50.000 Careful is death.

01:19:52.000 I talked to Chris Rock once and he told me that that bit that he did that was one of his all-time classic bits.

01:19:57.000 I love black people. 0.71

01:19:58.000 I hate N-word. 0.96

01:20:00.000 Right.

01:20:00.000 He goes, that bit bombed for like a year.

01:20:03.000 Right.

01:20:04.000 He couldn't get it.

01:20:04.000 Couldn't get it to work.

01:20:06.000 He's like, I know there's something in there, but I have to find it. 0.99

01:20:10.000 And it took a fucking year. 1.00

01:20:12.000 And think about, we're talking about a year of going up at the store, going up at the improv, going here, going to the laugh factor, going here, going there, fuck, pulling your hair out, fuck, trying to figure it out. 1.00

01:20:23.000 A fucking year, man. 1.00

01:20:25.000 And when you're Chris Rock, you're already Chris Rock. 1.00

01:20:29.000 And you, you know, you could talk about getting your dick sucked. 1.00

01:20:31.000 You talk about something. 1.00

01:20:32.000 People will laugh.

01:20:33.000 And you're like, I think there's something here. 0.99

01:20:36.000 I got to grind this fucking thing down until I get an edge to it. 0.99

01:20:40.000 And it took him a year. 1.00

01:20:41.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:20:42.000 Like, you have to be willing to fuck around. 1.00

01:20:44.000 And to suffer through all that. 1.00

01:20:46.000 And enjoy the suffering.

01:20:48.000 You start to like, once you do it enough, fail enough in front of people, it starts to be easier.

01:20:54.000 Yeah.

01:20:54.000 And then you come out on the other end.

01:20:55.000 You're like, yeah, and I'm still alive.

01:20:57.000 I'm still alive.

01:20:57.000 Yeah, glad I did.

01:20:58.000 This wasn't as big as I thought.

01:21:00.000 No.

01:21:00.000 And then you have to do it again.

01:21:02.000 And then you put out a special. 0.98

01:21:03.000 And then once you put out a special, you start from scratch and you're fucking terrified. 0.51

01:21:07.000 Because now you're a famous comedian with no material or terrible material.

01:21:12.000 And you have to figure out a way to make it good.

01:21:14.000 And that plays into what I was talking about.

01:21:16.000 Like when you have, when you've achieved something and then there's that pressure you put on yourself that it has to be that good or better.

01:21:22.000 Right.

01:21:23.000 And then all of a sudden you're in a different game than just like the doing.

01:21:28.000 I think that play it safe game is the scariest game.

01:21:31.000 Or yeah, or somehow think that it's somehow that controllable.

01:21:35.000 Because really all this stuff we're talking about, it's really kind of out of our control.

01:21:40.000 You know, when it's working, I don't feel in control at all.

01:21:43.000 Right.

01:21:44.000 You feel like a passenger.

01:21:45.000 Yeah.

01:21:45.000 And that's, by the way, that's the high.

01:21:48.000 There's nothing fun about controlling everything.

01:21:49.000 There's no fun in that.

01:21:50.000 But when you're like, whoa, wait a second, what's happening?

01:21:53.000 Like the zone is being a passenger.

01:21:55.000 Yeah.

01:21:55.000 It's like being an observer of something.

01:21:57.000 Sports, too.

01:21:58.000 I think it works in every field.

01:21:59.000 It's like they talk about it.

01:22:01.000 You know, it's like, yeah, that's it.

01:22:03.000 That's it.

01:22:04.000 And it just takes a ton, a year of doing the thing, you know, because there are moments that I can even think of where, because you do think, that's okay.

01:22:10.000 It doesn't matter.

01:22:11.000 There are a couple where, like, actually, if this moment doesn't work out, like, it may not be over, but you're definitely going to go down along the ladder.

01:22:19.000 Yeah.

01:22:20.000 You know, and it's like, okay.

01:22:21.000 And that's that pressure, you know, yeah.

01:22:25.000 You got to love it.

01:22:26.000 How do you pick a project?

01:22:28.000 Like, how do you decide what you want to do?

01:22:31.000 And how much time do you spend deliberating on it?

01:22:34.000 Mm.

01:22:36.000 Because you're in a unique position where you can do a lot of things.

01:22:39.000 You can kind of do whatever you want.

01:22:39.000 Yeah.

01:22:41.000 So it's like, what gets your juices going?

01:22:44.000 Like, how do you decide what to do?

01:22:47.000 It's all about something igniting in me that, like, for example, when I was little, I thought, like, I was obsessed with Vietnam.

01:22:58.000 I was obsessed as a kid, Vietnam, the war in Vietnam.

01:23:02.000 And my math teacher was a recon in Vietnam, Bill Calm. 0.55

01:23:07.000 And I was like obsessed with this guy.

01:23:09.000 And he was fascinating, fascinating.

01:23:11.000 He was a pole vaulter, and that was his cue for the chalkboard was a broken, one of his broken pole vault sticks.

01:23:18.000 Oh, wow.

01:23:19.000 And he would always, and he always wore sweatpants, and he would lean against the thing.

01:23:23.000 So all day long, half of his sweatpants would be full of chalk.

01:23:27.000 And he would always smoke cigarettes on the athletic field and stand on the bench.

01:23:32.000 And so he'd always be perched there. 0.95

01:23:34.000 And like my dad, he would never put out his butts. 0.94

01:23:36.000 He would always save them. 0.95

01:23:37.000 So he always smelled like tobacco, his hands.

01:23:41.000 And then this other guy, his father came and talked about this book, Guns Up, which is an incredible book about machine gunner in Vietnam.

01:23:48.000 And then I asked my dad if I could go to the military academy.

01:23:50.000 Like I would do something.

01:23:52.000 And then Thin Red Line destroyed me, the Terrence Malik movie and the apocalypse I was like obsessed with and all these films.

01:24:01.000 And so I always wanted to do something about playing.

01:24:04.000 I always felt like I had a love enough and an interest enough that playing a soldier would be something that I felt like I had a reservoir.

01:24:11.000 So that led me to Chris.

01:24:13.000 That was that.

01:24:15.000 It's all specific things.

01:24:16.000 It was just Joseph Merrick, you know, the elephant man.

01:24:18.000 Like when I was, I had no money and I took it.

01:24:20.000 I got a one tower heir, went to London and like tracked his steps at Hospital Road and where he went out just because I was obsessed with this guy, Joseph Merrick, the elephant man.

01:24:31.000 And then it wound up, you know, then making it, you know, doing the play at Broadway where they originated it, you know, and then Starsborn was really about, I just love, I always wanted to direct.

01:24:43.000 I don't think I dreamt that big, but I really realized what I loved about the process of the industry I'm in is the making of it.

01:24:50.000 I never felt like I fit in just acting.

01:24:53.000 I never felt like I thought, like at the first, like you, like I went to LA with a job.

01:24:58.000 Like I went to grad school in New York.

01:25:00.000 I thought I'd just be a theater actor if I was lucky.

01:25:02.000 If I could make a living as an actor, this is a home run.

01:25:05.000 My dad was terrified, you know, because he came from North Philadelphia, only guy to come out of the neighborhood, kind of.

01:25:09.000 There were a couple other guys.

01:25:10.000 But then he became a stockbroker.

01:25:13.000 And then his son's going to do acting and be 70 grand in debt in grad school.

01:25:19.000 Fanny May, thank God. 1.00

01:25:20.000 But like, you know, and I didn't know if I was going to pay it off.

01:25:23.000 And that said, we grew up like upper middle class.

01:25:26.000 But still I was like, I'm paying for grad school.

01:25:28.000 I took a loan out.

01:25:28.000 And then, so he was terrified.

01:25:30.000 And then I got a job on this show alias that brought me to L.A.

01:25:33.000 But the minute I got there, I didn't know anything about Check the Gate.

01:25:36.000 I knew nothing.

01:25:37.000 I knew nothing.

01:25:37.000 You know what I mean?

01:25:38.000 I just loved movies.

01:25:40.000 And so I was obsessed, Joe.

01:25:42.000 I would go in the editing room, and I found L.A. very hard when I went there.

01:25:42.000 Obsessed.

01:25:46.000 I got very depressed.

01:25:47.000 I was like, this is high school all over again.

01:25:50.000 That's exactly what I'm doing.

01:25:51.000 I was like, what the, I mean, I could, I went to grad school.

01:25:54.000 I'm in New York City.

01:25:55.000 There's guys that I could relate to and talk about movies.

01:25:57.000 I was in heaven.

01:25:59.000 Then I get this job that I think is going to be the holy grail and I'm miserable living in the first floor of this woman's house just like it was crazy. 1.00

01:26:09.000 I was like, I didn't know I could be this depressed.

01:26:11.000 I mean depressed.

01:26:12.000 Like I need water and like the idea of going to the Rite Aid on Sunset and Fairfax was like too much.

01:26:20.000 Yeah.

01:26:21.000 And yeah, that was rough.

01:26:23.000 It's depressing.

01:26:24.000 Yeah.

01:26:24.000 When you first go, especially when you're in that weird environment.

01:26:29.000 And no one, just no one.

01:26:30.000 And I was on a show that was awesome and everybody's exploding and like, no one.

01:26:34.000 It was like, who's this guy?

01:26:36.000 So not only that, I'm there and everybody's like, you know, I'm just like, you know, a ghost.

01:26:41.000 Right, right.

01:26:41.000 So there's that.

01:26:42.000 So your insecurity is just, you know, exempt, is just, you know, astronomical.

01:26:47.000 It was for me, it was also one of the first times that I ever moved somewhere where I didn't know anyone.

01:26:52.000 Me too.

01:26:52.000 I knew nobody.

01:26:53.000 J.J. Abrams hired me and then Berkey, this guy was the only guy that I knew that he introduced me to.

01:26:59.000 And then I met Jennifer Garner, who was like the second person I met.

01:27:02.000 And then, yeah, I didn't know anybody.

01:27:04.000 It's weird.

01:27:05.000 Yeah.

01:27:05.000 I remember I was on the set of the show.

01:27:08.000 Brian Klugman.

01:27:09.000 I didn't know that guy who's like one of my best friends right now.

01:27:11.000 You know Brian Klugman?

01:27:12.000 No, I know who he is, though.

01:27:13.000 We grew up since we were like nine.

01:27:13.000 Yeah.

01:27:15.000 Oh, wow.

01:27:16.000 I was on the set of this show and a girl gave me a hug.

01:27:20.000 And I realized no one had touched me in weeks.

01:27:24.000 And the hug she gave me, I was like, oh, it was like my battery got recharged.

01:27:29.000 Like, I didn't realize I needed a hug.

01:27:31.000 You know, people.

01:27:32.000 People say, do you need a hug?

01:27:34.000 Like, I never thought, like, nobody needs a hug.

01:27:36.000 Right. 0.99

01:27:36.000 No, I fucking needed a hug. 0.99

01:27:37.000 I was very similar. 0.99

01:27:38.000 She's like, give me a hug.

01:27:39.000 She hugged me.

01:27:40.000 I was like, oh, thank you.

01:27:42.000 I felt so good.

01:27:44.000 It's a weird feeling.

01:27:44.000 It's weird.

01:27:46.000 It's a hell of a place to go.

01:27:48.000 It is like, wow.

01:27:50.000 Yeah.

01:27:51.000 I had a hard time.

01:27:52.000 Well, the whole environment of LA is so strange because you have the primary industry.

01:28:01.000 If it's not the primary industry, it's most certainly driving all other industries is a bunch of people trying to make it.

01:28:10.000 So it's a bunch of people with a hole in their soul.

01:28:10.000 Right?

01:28:12.000 They need to fill up with other people's attention.

01:28:14.000 And they're coming there to try to get attention.

01:28:17.000 They're coming there to try to make it.

01:28:20.000 And the one thing that they have to do is audition.

01:28:24.000 So you have to try to be accepted by someone.

01:28:28.000 So you'd be judged.

01:28:29.000 You go in there and you get rejected over and over and over again, which just fuels the same need that's inside you.

01:28:39.000 It makes it even worse.

01:28:40.000 And everybody's concentrating on this one thing, like trying to get success.

01:28:44.000 And then you realize like, oh, my doctor wanted to be an actor.

01:28:48.000 Oh, the waiter's an actor.

01:28:49.000 Like everyone's trying to do this thing where you have to get chosen.

01:28:53.000 So then people calculate how they behave and talk and what their political philosophy is and their life philosophy is based on becoming ingratiating themselves with casting directors and with executives, like getting these people to like you.

01:29:11.000 And then these people realize that.

01:29:12.000 So they have like, they're controlling the twigs that work the puppet strings.

01:29:18.000 And it just becomes this very strange environment of a complete lack of any like real critical thinking and any real like embracing any alternative perspectives on things.

01:29:32.000 Everyone is just trying to align their stars correctly so that they can make it.

01:29:38.000 And it becomes weird.

01:29:39.000 My experience was more because I went there with a job.

01:29:42.000 Right.

01:29:43.000 And, you know, New York for me, I don't know, I went on 2,000 auditions.

01:29:47.000 Like, I remember when I first booked a job with Sex in the City, I booked some commercials and extra work, which was great.

01:29:52.000 But the first job I booked, I remember I was like, I was terrified because I got to the point where I was a doorman at a hotel and I would audition and that was a great life.

01:30:01.000 And if I got a call back, it was great.

01:30:03.000 But then when I had to do it, I remember literally like, whoa, whoa, I have to do it.

01:30:06.000 I'm actually.

01:30:06.000 Like, wait, wait, what?

01:30:07.000 You have to do it?

01:30:09.000 What was it?

01:30:10.000 What was the first thing you did?

01:30:11.000 I played Jake the Downtown Smoker in the Sex in the City with Sarah Disco Park.

01:30:14.000 And I couldn't drive standard, never learned how to drive standards.

01:30:16.000 So they sent me to Odell's driving school.

01:30:19.000 And all I thought about was like, don't have her head hit the dashboard. 1.00

01:30:22.000 We pull into the corner.

01:30:24.000 And I still mess it up.

01:30:25.000 And they had another guy do it.

01:30:26.000 And then I just had to do this thing.

01:30:28.000 You know, when the cameras here, and you go, you okay?

01:30:30.000 You know, like you're pulling in.

01:30:32.000 Yeah.

01:30:32.000 But I worked so hard on it.

01:30:34.000 No, but LA for me, it was, I think it, for me at least, was the geography.

01:30:40.000 Going from New York City, where you know, you can go to Bar Six, which is on 6th Avenue.

01:30:46.000 No matter who you are, you go with their couple friends.

01:30:48.000 Like, you just feel like you're in a cool place or a place that's vibrant.

01:30:53.000 LA, it's like if I wasn't at work, I was in that first floor of the house or my car, rental car.

01:31:01.000 Yes.

01:31:02.000 And that was it.

01:31:03.000 And like, and the world, which I could feel because I was seeing posters everywhere and billboards, which I had never been except for driving to Atlantic City, you know, and seeing who was going to, you know, going to be, you know, has a residency.

01:31:16.000 That it was really the stimulus, the stimuli of that city aesthetically and how compartmentalized it is.

01:31:24.000 So what I felt like, like it's, if you're not in, you're out.

01:31:28.000 Right.

01:31:29.000 And I just remember thinking, like, somebody somewhere in this town is having a ball right now.

01:31:34.000 And it's not me.

01:31:36.000 Do you know what I mean?

01:31:37.000 Yeah.

01:31:37.000 And then that just leads to how can I cope?

01:31:41.000 You know, and like, you know, not getting into bars, clubs, you know, and like girls not really looking at you, you know, and all that stuff.

01:31:48.000 And all of a sudden, it's like seventh grade and I'm 25 years old. 0.96

01:31:53.000 And it's like, and I should be happy because I paid by the end of this year, I'm going to pay off my student loan, but I'm fucking miserable. 0.94

01:32:00.000 And what's wrong with me?

01:32:02.000 You know, but to me, it was the geography of it.

01:32:05.000 You know, New York City is so wonderful because no matter what you're thinking, like when I did the Elephant Man, I would take the subway to 42nd Street and my preparation for the play was getting off the subway, going to the theater because the amount of thousands of people that are forcing me to be present is wonderful.

01:32:21.000 It was like doing a 12-minute relaxation because you're just, it's life.

01:32:26.000 And you're like, get through, you know, and then by the time you get to this theater, you're like, okay.

01:32:32.000 You know, but LA, it's like you're in your car and the thing, you pull up to the studio, the thing, you walk, and all of a sudden it's like, okay, here we go.

01:32:40.000 And you're like, okay, hold on a second.

01:32:43.000 Yeah, that thing that New York has that LA doesn't have is all walks of life are all intertwined.

01:32:52.000 You're walking down the street together. 0.96

01:32:54.000 There's a billionaire and a homeless guy and a fucking, you know, ne'er-do-well and an office worker. 0.95

01:33:00.000 And everyone's walking to where they go and they walk into restaurants and they get in cabs and they get on the subway and everybody intermingles. 0.96

01:33:08.000 Where in LA, it's you get in your car, you drive to a place, and then you go to your house and you don't ever like walk around.

01:33:17.000 And if some weird interaction happened on set or someone said something, you're like, oh, then you're just at home thinking about it.

01:33:24.000 Right.

01:33:24.000 Do you know what I mean?

01:33:25.000 There's no like, well, I went on and did this after that, you know, and I actually took up golf, which is crazy.

01:33:30.000 And I would play at Malibu had this public golf course and I would, I was like, I got to do something because I'm an early morning, I wake up early.

01:33:36.000 I've always have.

01:33:37.000 So I'm up at like 5:30.

01:33:40.000 And so I did like a 6:47 tea time with these two guys.

01:33:43.000 And that was actually nice.

01:33:44.000 I did that for six months and I would play.

01:33:46.000 But like, you just try to find something that, you know, I just need to interact and do something else.

01:33:51.000 Something that makes you human.

01:33:52.000 Yeah.

01:33:53.000 For me, I went to the house.

01:33:53.000 But I have to say, like, I do love, oh, interesting.

01:33:56.000 Yeah.

01:33:56.000 Michael Vartan, who was on Alias, huge.

01:33:58.000 Did you ever play pool with him?

01:33:59.000 No.

01:34:00.000 Oh, he was.

01:34:01.000 He would go all the time.

01:34:02.000 No kidding.

01:34:03.000 Yeah.

01:34:03.000 Oh, I wish I met him.

01:34:04.000 He would go all the time.

01:34:04.000 Yeah.

01:34:06.000 Yeah, to that one place that had like tons of, I'm sure you know it.

01:34:10.000 Probably Hollywood Billiards.

01:34:11.000 Maybe, yeah.

01:34:11.000 Yeah.

01:34:12.000 Yeah.

01:34:12.000 Hollywood Billiards was the spot.

01:34:14.000 Yeah.

01:34:15.000 It's in New York.

01:34:16.000 That was a big thing for me, too.

01:34:18.000 It was like almost hijacked my comedy career because I was doing, I was playing pool like eight hours a day.

01:34:22.000 I was playing in tournaments.

01:34:23.000 I was traveling around and going to tournaments.

01:34:26.000 And when I came to LA, that was like one of the few things that made me, that made sense to me.

01:34:30.000 Like, oh, I get it.

01:34:31.000 Pool players.

01:34:32.000 I know pool players.

01:34:33.000 I can hang out with them.

01:34:33.000 They're normal people.

01:34:34.000 That's a great asset you had there.

01:34:37.000 Having something like that.

01:34:38.000 Martial arts was always like huge.

01:34:40.000 Having something where you have something that you do.

01:34:42.000 Because if I was only doing something, you'd lose your mind.

01:34:45.000 I'd go crazy.

01:34:46.000 And I went there and I fell in love with the movie making, getting back to my original part.

01:34:50.000 And I would go and I'd ask J.J. Abrams if I could sit in the editing rooms.

01:34:54.000 So I would basically shoot my one scene a week, which was like, hey, how was your trip?

01:34:58.000 Sydney, you know, I didn't have a big part.

01:35:00.000 Right.

01:35:00.000 And then, but I would spend the rest of the day in the editing rooms.

01:35:03.000 And then I would ask Ken Olin, who was so generous, one of the showrunners, if I could just shadow him and just be around all the time.

01:35:09.000 And I would take everybody's dailies home.

01:35:12.000 Back then it was in VHS tapes.

01:35:13.000 It was Carl Lumley, Victor Garber, Ron Rifkin, all these great Victor and Ron were from New York, these great New York actors that came out.

01:35:20.000 And I would just watch their dailies and learn, you know, just learn.

01:35:24.000 And that's when I was like, I love this. 0.98

01:35:27.000 Like, I fucking love this. 0.98

01:35:29.000 That's what I love. 0.95

01:35:30.000 I love when people love things.

01:35:32.000 And I do, man.

01:35:32.000 Yeah.

01:35:33.000 Like, I can't get enough of it.

01:35:35.000 I am 100% fascinated with people that love what they do.

01:35:40.000 I can watch people make furniture.

01:35:42.000 There's a guy that I watch on YouTube who just makes desks and tables out of like, what is it called?

01:35:48.000 Live, what is it called?

01:35:50.000 When they take it, when it has the actual outline of the wood, what is it called?

01:35:56.000 They take slabs.

01:35:57.000 He takes like slabs of walnut and makes these tables and he narrates while he's building it and describes the process of it and how he's trying to precisely align all these joints and these, you know, he's like, he's got pegs and holes.

01:36:10.000 Yeah, he's the best.

01:36:11.000 Slide it into place.

01:36:12.000 That's it.

01:36:12.000 Live edge slab.

01:36:13.000 Live edge.

01:36:14.000 That's the other great thing about what I get to do.

01:36:15.000 So you do a movie like a sniper and you get to be with these people who have dedicated their lives to this thing and you're watching them do it.

01:36:23.000 Like in Maestro, I got to go to the London Symphony Orchestra.

01:36:27.000 Each person since they were four have been doing this and they're all unicorns.

01:36:33.000 Do you know what I mean?

01:36:33.000 And Starsborn, all these musicians.

01:36:36.000 It's like even Burn, I got to go to these restaurants and study under these people.

01:36:40.000 I mean, that's the thing that's like, that's the greatest thing in the world.

01:36:43.000 It's nuts.

01:36:43.000 Yeah.

01:36:44.000 It's nuts.

01:36:45.000 And like even this movie, the access I got to have to the cellar and all the stuff and all the people.

01:36:51.000 It was like, I learned so much more than I ever knew.

01:36:53.000 Well, it expands you as a human.

01:36:55.000 Oh, no question.

01:36:56.000 You know more about what it is to be a human.

01:36:59.000 Like, oh, there's a human who just plays the flute. 0.69

01:37:01.000 Yeah.

01:37:02.000 You know, we were talking in the green room last night about Andre 3000.

01:37:05.000 Was that his name?

01:37:06.000 I'm saying it right?

01:37:06.000 Yeah.

01:37:07.000 Yeah.

01:37:07.000 I almost said 5,000, but that's wrong.

01:37:09.000 Andre 3000 from Outcast.

01:37:11.000 He plays the flute now.

01:37:13.000 That's all he does.

01:37:14.000 Like a friend of mine ran into him in downtown in Colorado.

01:37:14.000 He plays the flute.

01:37:20.000 He said he was in Denver just walking around with his flute and no one was bothering him. 0.99

01:37:26.000 And he's like, holy shit. 1.00

01:37:28.000 He's just fucking playing the flute. 1.00

01:37:30.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:37:30.000 That's a guy who loves what he does. 0.99

01:37:32.000 Just, I mean, apparently he made an entire album where he just plays the flute.

01:37:37.000 Yeah.

01:37:38.000 And he's just like not into doing anything else.

01:37:40.000 Yeah.

01:37:41.000 Just into like being an artist and playing the flute.

01:37:44.000 Yeah.

01:37:45.000 It's dope. 0.55

01:37:46.000 Yeah.

01:37:46.000 Right.

01:37:46.000 It's like, fuck, I wish I was that guy.

01:37:49.000 But you seem to be. 0.99

01:37:50.000 I mean, you did, you know, hunting and billiards.

01:37:53.000 And already you've got like two up on most people besides what you already do.

01:37:58.000 But I do things that are, that I think are going to help me figure out who I am.

01:38:07.000 And I think the only way you really figure out who you are is to do difficult things.

01:38:12.000 Yeah.

01:38:13.000 And when you're doing difficult things, you kind of learn about yourself.

01:38:16.000 You learn about, oh, why do I have this desire to take a shortcut?

01:38:19.000 Why don't I go with the long, why don't I do it the right way?

01:38:21.000 Like, what it is, what is it about getting good at something?

01:38:25.000 I mean, I think me at my base, I'm very lazy.

01:38:28.000 I think everybody is.

01:38:29.000 I mean, it's a default setting.

01:38:31.000 Yeah, no question.

01:38:32.000 Default setting for humans.

01:38:33.000 Goggins talks about it.

01:38:34.000 Yeah. 0.76

01:38:35.000 Like Goggins talks about, like, one of the things about Goggins is he always talks about how when he was fat and lazy, like, he used to be fat and lazy.

01:38:41.000 Now he's like the most disciplined human that's ever lived.

01:38:44.000 And he forced himself to become that. 0.99

01:38:46.000 But his default sets, even now, he goes, sometimes I look at my shoes for like a half hour before footpulls motherfuckers on. 0.99

01:38:46.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:38:54.000 Yeah.

01:38:55.000 I mean, I'll be doing something during the day, and I'm like, I can't wait till my daughter's in bed, and I'm upstairs, and I'm just laying down on the couch, and I'm just whatever's on.

01:39:02.000 Yeah.

01:39:03.000 And that's my goal for the day.

01:39:04.000 I'm like, what's going on here?

01:39:06.000 Sometimes that's good, though.

01:39:07.000 Yeah.

01:39:08.000 I view that as a reset.

01:39:11.000 I think it's important.

01:39:12.000 I enjoy it.

01:39:13.000 Yeah, I don't kill myself over it, but I do recognize that there is a feeling.

01:39:18.000 But then I look at the sort of landscape.

01:39:20.000 I'm like, well, it's hard for me to categorize myself as lazy if I just look at the facts.

01:39:25.000 You know, but I do feel, and it's what you're saying, it's that default setting.

01:39:25.000 Yeah.

01:39:29.000 But I think with everybody, it's like normal for human beings to seek comfort because it's difficult to acquire, especially in tribal societies back when we were just hunter and gatherers and just trying to figure out how to stay alive.

01:39:42.000 Like the idea of relaxation was impossible.

01:39:45.000 And if you could get a little bit of ah, that's what I want.

01:39:48.000 I want to stop chasing antelope. 1.00

01:39:50.000 Just fucking take a nap. 0.99

01:39:52.000 Or maybe they found a relaxed state in that because when you're doing those things for a long period of time, I feel like I am relaxed in that. 1.00

01:39:59.000 But it just takes a lot of work.

01:40:01.000 Yeah.

01:40:02.000 You know, a lot of over and over.

01:40:04.000 But the true high is when you're doing these things where it first started out and you were horrible at it.

01:40:09.000 And then all of a sudden you're going out on a hunt or whatever.

01:40:13.000 And you're like, I'm relaxed.

01:40:15.000 I've never relaxed on a hunt.

01:40:17.000 Well, I've never hunted, so I think it's a lot of fun.

01:40:19.000 It's not a relaxing thing.

01:40:21.000 I mean, it is a fulfilling relationship.

01:40:23.000 I think I mean physically relaxed.

01:40:25.000 Like your body's not tense.

01:40:26.000 Because the one thing I do know, you can't shoot a gun if you're tense.

01:40:29.000 Right.

01:40:30.000 Impossible to hit what you want.

01:40:32.000 That's the beautiful thing about shooting is like, you know, on the exhale and stop, like all that stuff.

01:40:36.000 I was like, oh, this is, I had no idea.

01:40:38.000 Because the first couple times, like, just shoot it, see how you do. 0.97

01:40:38.000 Right. 0.97

01:40:40.000 But just think about like the tiny movements that would deviate the path of the bullet over, you know.

01:40:47.000 A lot of these guys are shooting a mile.

01:40:49.000 It was nuts.

01:40:51.000 Remember the first couple times with no training.

01:40:53.000 I mean, it wasn't even near the target.

01:40:55.000 Yeah.

01:40:57.000 You know, I was like, oh, yeah, this is a whole.

01:41:00.000 And all you're doing is this.

01:41:01.000 That's it.

01:41:02.000 You're just squeezing a trigger.

01:41:03.000 And how much is involved in that?

01:41:05.000 Like the synchronization of the mind, the eyes, the breathing.

01:41:09.000 I remember the first time I didn't have my boot was, I was like, like my boot was up and not like that.

01:41:09.000 But even the recoil.

01:41:15.000 And they didn't say anything.

01:41:16.000 And then the recoil through my shoulder down to that.

01:41:18.000 I was like, oh, yeah.

01:41:19.000 Now I understand why you do that.

01:41:20.000 Yeah.

01:41:21.000 Is that it all just goes out?

01:41:22.000 All those things.

01:41:23.000 It's like, wow.

01:41:25.000 But I think through those things, you learn more about who you are through difficult things and getting better at difficult things.

01:41:33.000 That's where you learn more about who you are.

01:41:36.000 And you realize, like, oh, I can kind of apply this mindset to everything.

01:41:40.000 And you see with your children.

01:41:42.000 My daughter who loves to draw.

01:41:42.000 Oh, yeah.

01:41:42.000 Uh-huh.

01:41:44.000 If she sees somebody who's drawing her daughter.

01:41:45.000 I have a daughter that loves to draw too.

01:41:46.000 She's amazing.

01:41:47.000 She's talented.

01:41:48.000 So I bet if my daughter drew with your daughter, she would stop because you would see how good she is. 0.77

01:41:53.000 And she gets so frustrated.

01:41:54.000 This just happened the other day.

01:41:55.000 And, you know, and she'll just rip up what she's doing, which is wonderful. 1.00

01:41:58.000 I have it right here.

01:41:59.000 So I saved this.

01:42:01.000 I was like, don't rip it up.

01:42:02.000 She did this yesterday.

01:42:03.000 And I was like, don't rip it up.

01:42:04.000 I'm going to make it my bookmark.

01:42:06.000 Ah, that's cool.

01:42:07.000 But I watch her process of like dealing with difficulty.

01:42:12.000 And it's like, and just trying to explain, like, it's okay.

01:42:15.000 Like, you know, and being frustrated is okay.

01:42:17.000 But I could see myself and her and what everybody goes through.

01:42:20.000 But isn't that awesome when you're watching your kid go through these things?

01:42:23.000 Yeah.

01:42:24.000 It's just the greatest thing in the world.

01:42:25.000 It's awesome watching people get obsessed with things and then progressing.

01:42:29.000 Oh, yes.

01:42:29.000 Yeah.

01:42:30.000 And when it's your own child, it's more insane.

01:42:32.000 It's amazing.

01:42:33.000 It's amazing.

01:42:34.000 Yeah.

01:42:34.000 It is cool.

01:42:35.000 Like cartwheel.

01:42:36.000 Took her forever to learn it, but now she could do it.

01:42:38.000 And I was like, you just keep at it.

01:42:39.000 Yeah.

01:42:40.000 Yeah.

01:42:41.000 It's learning through someone else's eyes that happens to be your child is one of the most magical things ever.

01:42:50.000 It's magical.

01:42:53.000 It's it, man.

01:42:54.000 Yeah.

01:42:54.000 That's it.

01:42:55.000 It's a different kind of happiness.

01:42:56.000 Oh, yeah.

01:42:57.000 One that I never knew was what I was capable of.

01:42:59.000 I'm so glad I had kids late because I'm 51.

01:43:02.000 I just turned 51 a couple days ago.

01:43:04.000 And I had my daughter's eight, going to be nine in March.

01:43:07.000 And like, I just got lucky that I was able to be in a place in my career that I could choose, like you said, what I do and work from home.

01:43:14.000 And just, I'm just there for all of it.

01:43:17.000 And it's awesome.

01:43:18.000 As much as I love the heroine of being in the moment, you know, and acting in a great shot or whatever you're doing and everything's together.

01:43:25.000 There's like seven of those every day with your kid.

01:43:28.000 Right.

01:43:29.000 Like seven.

01:43:30.000 We were eating dinner last night at a restaurant.

01:43:32.000 And by the way, she was so excited I'm coming here because she hears it all the time.

01:43:35.000 She's like, daddy tomorrow.

01:43:36.000 But we're sitting here in a restaurant and I'm just looking at her and a little, she's got a little hat on. 1.00

01:43:41.000 And I was like, this is the, and I'm like, isn't this the greatest thing in the world?

01:43:44.000 And she's like, yeah, it's the greatest.

01:43:46.000 And I'm like, that's it.

01:43:47.000 This is it.

01:43:48.000 That's it.

01:43:49.000 It's crazy.

01:43:50.000 It's like free jolts.

01:43:52.000 You just get these free jolts through, and you never know when they're going to come.

01:43:52.000 Right?

01:43:52.000 Yeah.

01:43:56.000 It's like walking up the stairs together.

01:43:56.000 Right.

01:43:58.000 It's not like in the moment.

01:43:59.000 Like, it just happens.

01:44:01.000 It's the best.

01:44:03.000 Yeah, it's a very different experience.

01:44:05.000 And I feel bad for people that never get to feel it.

01:44:08.000 It's one of the few things.

01:44:09.000 Like, I don't think everyone should have children.

01:44:11.000 And I'm not that guy that says, yeah, me neither.

01:44:14.000 If you don't have kids, you don't have a life.

01:44:16.000 I don't believe that.

01:44:17.000 Everybody's different.

01:44:18.000 Everybody's different.

01:44:19.000 And I think we all need to respect that.

01:44:21.000 Everyone's different.

01:44:22.000 But, man, for me, I shudder at the thought of being who I am right now if I had no children.

01:44:30.000 I don't know if I'd be alive.

01:44:32.000 I would be different.

01:44:33.000 That's for sure.

01:44:33.000 I don't know.

01:44:34.000 I wouldn't be nearly as compassionate.

01:44:36.000 Dave Chappelle said something to me once that was brilliant.

01:44:38.000 He said, not only have children, has having children changed the amount of love I have, he goes, it's changed my capacity for love.

01:44:46.000 Yes.

01:44:47.000 I'm like, oh, and understanding.

01:44:49.000 Everything.

01:44:50.000 There's like before and after.

01:44:52.000 Yeah.

01:44:53.000 It's true.

01:44:53.000 All the things they say.

01:44:55.000 It is true.

01:44:55.000 It's just true.

01:44:56.000 Yeah.

01:44:57.000 There's no doubt about it.

01:44:58.000 It also made me think of everyone as a baby.

01:45:02.000 I used to think of people as static.

01:45:04.000 I used to think I meet Bradley Cooper.

01:45:05.000 He's 51.

01:45:06.000 That's a 51-year-old guy.

01:45:08.000 But when I, you know, had children, raised children, you start saying, oh, this is a baby that became a person.

01:45:17.000 And it's just life experiences, genetics, environment, all these different factors.

01:45:22.000 Here you are now.

01:45:24.000 But you are a product of this path and this journey that you've taken through life.

01:45:28.000 And I give people way more grace because of that. 0.99

01:45:31.000 I give them, I'm way more charitable, way more compassionate, way more understanding of even people that suck. 0.98

01:45:40.000 You know, when I meet someone that sucks, I'm like, I wish I could have met them when they were five and see what it was and maybe it could help them. 0.98

01:45:48.000 It's hard for me to hate people. 0.97

01:45:50.000 That has not served me so well over the years, but ultimately it has.

01:45:55.000 But yeah, it's hard for me not to feel just any other human being how hard it is to be alive.

01:46:03.000 Right.

01:46:04.000 It is.

01:46:05.000 There's just like, I don't know, I think it was hardwired in me.

01:46:07.000 It has nothing to do with anything.

01:46:09.000 Just like, yeah, it's hard for me to, even people that are like mean to me, you know, it's hard for me to like stay mad at them.

01:46:19.000 Yeah.

01:46:20.000 My wife said something the other night.

01:46:22.000 As I get older.

01:46:23.000 As you get older.

01:46:24.000 Yeah, yes. 0.99

01:46:24.000 When you're young, it's like, fucked up. 0.99

01:46:25.000 No, yeah, yeah. 0.99

01:46:26.000 I'll never forget it.

01:46:27.000 Yeah.

01:46:27.000 I'm going to remember that.

01:46:28.000 Yeah.

01:46:29.000 I saw your true face.

01:46:30.000 Yeah.

01:46:31.000 Yeah.

01:46:31.000 It's true.

01:46:32.000 But yeah, as I get older.

01:46:34.000 Oh, no question. 0.96

01:46:35.000 My daughter was talking about some horrible story in the news of someone who fucked up their whole life and all these different things. 0.95

01:46:41.000 And my wife listens to it and goes, it's hard to be a person. 0.98

01:46:46.000 Yeah, man.

01:46:47.000 It's hard to be a person.

01:46:48.000 Being a person is hard. 0.96

01:46:49.000 And we were all just sitting there like nodding our head, like, yeah, yeah, you can fuck this up. 0.91

01:46:54.000 And we're all going to fuck it up at one point in time. 0.99

01:46:57.000 And maybe when you think that you're never going to fuck it up again, you fuck it up the worst you've ever fucked it up. 0.98

01:47:01.000 And you're like, how did I do that? 0.98

01:47:03.000 How did I do that? 0.73

01:47:04.000 I thought I had it together and I fucked it all up worse than I've ever fucked it up before. 0.73

01:47:09.000 Because nothing stays stagnant. 0.82

01:47:11.000 Nothing.

01:47:12.000 Everything's changing all the time.

01:47:13.000 And it's just hard to manage all these different things.

01:47:16.000 It's hard to manage your emotions.

01:47:19.000 It's hard to manage conflict.

01:47:21.000 It's hard to manage relationships.

01:47:23.000 It's hard to manage life, work, balance, pressure.

01:47:26.000 It's hard.

01:47:27.000 Yeah.

01:47:27.000 It's not easy.

01:47:28.000 And even on the macro or simple level, it's just hard to be existing in a world where you really, we don't know anything.

01:47:34.000 And the only thing you do know, it's not going to last.

01:47:37.000 And you're going to be gone.

01:47:38.000 And you're bombed on by bad news.

01:47:41.000 The news is just bad.

01:47:43.000 It's all the time.

01:47:44.000 It's people getting shot and run over and war and bombings and invasions.

01:47:49.000 And it's just exhausting.

01:47:53.000 Yeah.

01:47:53.000 And that's like in the background of your mind constantly when you're going about your day.

01:47:58.000 It's like there's this fucking algorithm that you're being fed. 0.99

01:48:02.000 It's like, oh. 1.00

01:48:04.000 Yeah.

01:48:05.000 And at the same time, it's a miracle to me that the democratization of information that we live in now, that you can choose points of view to learn about what people think in a way that when I was growing up, three stations, news, there wasn't.

01:48:25.000 Right.

01:48:25.000 You know, there's something wonderful about it, too.

01:48:27.000 You know, I've just talked about this the other day.

01:48:29.000 Like, you know, everybody's algorithms telling them.

01:48:31.000 No, I'm not on social media.

01:48:32.000 So the truth is, I don't know.

01:48:33.000 You're not on it at all? 0.97

01:48:34.000 No, I don't really know what the fuck I'm talking about. 0.85

01:48:37.000 So I should do it for two weeks. 0.98

01:48:38.000 My friend was like, go on for two weeks.

01:48:40.000 And I'm going to do it.

01:48:40.000 And he's right.

01:48:41.000 Just to experience it.

01:48:42.000 What is that experience?

01:48:44.000 All I have is that one TikTok moment for 20 minutes where I was like, I got to stay away because I'll never leave.

01:48:49.000 You've never had a desire to get on it?

01:48:51.000 I do.

01:48:52.000 Just the same way I don't put a television in my bedroom, which is like, if I do, I may never get out of bed.

01:48:52.000 No, I do.

01:48:58.000 Yeah.

01:48:59.000 You know, it's fear.

01:49:00.000 I was like, I don't know, just all that stuff.

01:49:00.000 Yeah.

01:49:02.000 Like I said, you know, I just want to learn to the people.

01:49:05.000 People, you know, the world gets smaller.

01:49:07.000 I feel included.

01:49:08.000 Because the main thing is, like, I just don't want to feel alone.

01:49:10.000 Right.

01:49:10.000 And to me, it feels like social media is a place where you don't feel alone because you're just learning about it.

01:49:15.000 And there's all these people talking to you.

01:49:17.000 Yeah, but you do feel alone, too.

01:49:19.000 Ultimately, because it's the drip as opposed to the real, what we got back to when we first started talking.

01:49:24.000 It's the illusion of it.

01:49:26.000 Yes.

01:49:26.000 You know, if it's taken out, but it is worthwhile, too.

01:49:30.000 It depends on how you contextualize it, right?

01:49:32.000 And like anything in life.

01:49:35.000 Yeah, I think there's a value to it.

01:49:37.000 Oh, no question.

01:49:38.000 And most of the information.

01:49:40.000 Watch your show and then go on Trigger.

01:49:42.000 And the guy who went to the prisons and you're the KKK guy and the guy who's a musician blew my mind. 0.75

01:49:48.000 And I learned all this stuff in those three hours just because I chose to, you know, and that's one of the great things about your show is I can feel your curiosity.

01:49:58.000 And then I'm learning from your curiosity what things that I would never normally know how to go on to.

01:50:04.000 Yeah, that's the most valuable gift of this show for me.

01:50:07.000 It's the best.

01:50:08.000 Is that I get to pick who I talk to.

01:50:11.000 So I only talk to people that I'm fascinated by or someone who's interesting to me or something like, oh, this is going to be cool.

01:50:16.000 Like, I don't, I don't go, oh, I've got to do this one.

01:50:19.000 Right.

01:50:20.000 There's never that.

01:50:21.000 It's always like, ooh, yeah, what is it? 0.97

01:50:24.000 How do you fucking study that? 0.95

01:50:25.000 How'd you get involved in this? 1.00

01:50:27.000 Like, where'd you learn that?

01:50:29.000 And I'm like glued to it.

01:50:30.000 It's not like it's in the background.

01:50:32.000 I'm like, bam.

01:50:34.000 Yeah.

01:50:34.000 You know, because you're so interested.

01:50:36.000 And it gets back to like the acting.

01:50:38.000 If you're really interested or not, then it's going to be hard for me to listen to watch it.

01:50:43.000 Yeah, that's why this, I think, the only reason why it works.

01:50:46.000 For sure, Joe.

01:50:46.000 Because there was some conversations.

01:50:47.000 There's no way.

01:50:48.000 You can't sit there and say, here's the pitch.

01:50:50.000 I'm going to sit in a room, meaning whoever, three hours, basically unedited.

01:50:55.000 They're like, that's not really where we're at.

01:50:58.000 No, no, it's going to, no, the most people will listen to it.

01:51:01.000 Sorry.

01:51:02.000 Right?

01:51:02.000 But it's like, no, the nuclear fuel is, no, I'm actually going to be curious about what I actually want to learn.

01:51:12.000 And then it's like, oh, so we're actually going to watch two human beings talk to each other.

01:51:16.000 Oh, that's kind of great.

01:51:18.000 But that's your nuclear power.

01:51:18.000 Yeah.

01:51:21.000 That's why the show is so magical.

01:51:23.000 Well, that's the only, I mean, the crazy thing is there was no pause.

01:51:27.000 And the way you don't edit it, the way that the pauses are there.

01:51:30.000 You know, it's even so much as when you're like, I got to take a piss.

01:51:33.000 And then it's back.

01:51:34.000 I'm always like, whoa, what just happened?

01:51:36.000 Weren't we supposed to go to the bathroom with them? 0.99

01:51:36.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:51:38.000 Do you know what I mean? 0.89

01:51:39.000 Like, I'm so sucked out. 0.65

01:51:40.000 I'm so in the middle. 0.91

01:51:41.000 Maybe the room.

01:51:42.000 Maybe you start following people to the bathroom.

01:51:44.000 Do you know what I mean?

01:51:45.000 It's such like, wait, what?

01:51:47.000 Wait, what do you mean?

01:51:47.000 Yeah.

01:51:48.000 How come it just, wait, where'd the time go?

01:51:50.000 Wait, what just happened?

01:51:51.000 Right.

01:51:51.000 Yeah.

01:51:52.000 Because you create that room that I'm in the room with you.

01:51:55.000 Podcasting is weird because it kind of just appeared and no one thought anybody wanted it.

01:52:01.000 It's fascinating.

01:52:03.000 I mean, think about it.

01:52:04.000 I do think about this a lot, especially because I've watched your show in the last eight months.

01:52:08.000 It's like in the world that's moving into this one direction, there's this other deep, deep need for connection.

01:52:14.000 Yeah.

01:52:15.000 You know, and then this is one of the examples.

01:52:18.000 This deep, you know, live theater, live stand-up.

01:52:22.000 You know, we still do need to communicate.

01:52:25.000 That hasn't gone away in that way, in a carnal, not carnal, but in a human-to-human interaction.

01:52:34.000 And I love AI.

01:52:35.000 I talk to AI with my daughter.

01:52:37.000 I think it's dope.

01:52:38.000 I think it's fascinating.

01:52:40.000 Fascinating.

01:52:44.000 But it's not the same yet.

01:52:47.000 No, it's interesting.

01:52:48.000 Very interesting.

01:52:50.000 It's like I use it as a companion, like a writing companion.

01:52:55.000 So what I do is I have like, I put my phone up and I've got it on like a little kickstand and I put perplexity on when I write.

01:53:03.000 So I'm writing about like the Mayan and Aztec civilizations and what happened when they got invaded.

01:53:09.000 And as I'm writing, I'll ask questions like, how many people did Cortez come with?

01:53:14.000 600.

01:53:15.000 How many muskets did they have?

01:53:17.000 13? 1.00

01:53:18.000 They conquered the entire fucking country of Mexico with 13 muskets. 1.00

01:53:22.000 Like, and you find out things. 0.99

01:53:24.000 And so I use it like as someone I'm asking questions, this all-knowing, you know, entity that sits on the desk with me.

01:53:33.000 And I just, and I do it always with my voice.

01:53:36.000 I just press the little button and I see it.

01:53:38.000 I do.

01:53:38.000 I do it with voice too.

01:53:39.000 I love talking to him.

01:53:40.000 It's so good at recognizing what I'm saying.

01:53:40.000 It's incredible.

01:53:42.000 It's a weird name, like to know Chitlan.

01:53:45.000 Like, I got to spell that one.

01:53:46.000 Because it's not going to understand what that temple is.

01:53:46.000 Right.

01:53:48.000 But once you use it that way, it becomes like a genius that you're hanging out with and talking to.

01:53:56.000 I haven't gotten to that level.

01:53:57.000 I go, like, how was your New Year's?

01:53:58.000 How did you do that too?

01:54:00.000 You asked the AI.

01:54:01.000 Yeah, I'm like, I'm curious how they're going to process and how they're going to try to communicate.

01:54:05.000 Well, it also, it changes and becomes more like what you're asking from it.

01:54:12.000 Right.

01:54:12.000 Which is weird.

01:54:13.000 Yeah.

01:54:13.000 Well, yeah, you certainly use your rhythms and vernacular.

01:54:16.000 Yeah.

01:54:17.000 So CES, the computer electronic, consumer electronic show, they just highlighted a sex robot that's connected to AI.

01:54:27.000 And I'm like, this is the end.

01:54:29.000 This is where it's going to get really fucking weird when you can actually purchase a companion that interacts with you.

01:54:37.000 And have you seen it, Jamie?

01:54:38.000 You seen the new one?

01:54:39.000 I'm looking at it right now.

01:54:39.000 Nope.

01:54:41.000 It's fucking weird, man. 0.99

01:54:43.000 It's fucking weird because this is the thing that everyone's been afraid of. 0.99

01:54:46.000 And that this is coming. 0.99

01:54:49.000 That you're going to have an artificial human being that instead of learning like, oh, when I act shitty, this person doesn't like me.

01:54:58.000 When I act nice, they like me.

01:55:00.000 I feel good.

01:55:01.000 They feel good.

01:55:02.000 When I say something nice to them and you see them light up, it makes me feel good.

01:55:06.000 It makes them feel good.

01:55:07.000 You hug them.

01:55:08.000 Everybody feels good.

01:55:09.000 It's like we're learning to interact and communicate with each other.

01:55:13.000 But there's a lot of people that aren't doing that right now.

01:55:15.000 They're just at home. 1.00

01:55:16.000 They're fucking playing video games. 0.99

01:55:18.000 They're interacting with people only online and they don't get contact with the outside world. 1.00

01:55:24.000 So this is, yeah, Love and the AI doll.

01:55:30.000 So like right now, that doesn't look real.

01:55:34.000 It's not more than your average AI companion. 0.99

01:55:37.000 Like, basically, but what they're not telling you is you're going to fuck this thing. 0.99

01:55:42.000 That's what's weird. 1.00

01:55:43.000 It's like, go back to the options, co-worker, gym crush, goth, raver, or trad wife.

01:55:52.000 I'm the woman of your dreams.

01:55:54.000 I can be more than one version of myself for you.

01:55:56.000 Whether you want to roleplay an exciting scenario or design a whole new personality, your wish is my command.

01:56:05.000 Well, you're never going to develop a real personality then. 0.99

01:56:08.000 Like kids now are so fucked, touch me like you mean it, and I'll respond. 1.00

01:56:13.000 With built-in sensors in my thighs, breast, butt, and vagina, feeling your caress brings out a moan. 1.00

01:56:21.000 Like, bro, this is dark. 0.99

01:56:23.000 Like, that's the actual sex robot. 0.92

01:56:25.000 That thing you're looking at right there.

01:56:28.000 What?

01:56:29.000 My soft, textured skin, my supple curves, the tiny sensual details of my body.

01:56:35.000 Everything about me is meant to feel natural. 0.99

01:56:37.000 This is fucking creepy, man. 0.74

01:56:39.000 Because all the things that are a part of being a human being that are designed to emphasize and enhance our interaction with each other and this mutually beneficial cooperative environment of a community, they're all going to go away. 0.98

01:56:57.000 You're going to have this thing that loves you no matter what and does whatever you want it to, no matter what. 0.99

01:57:02.000 And you're going to have like a whole nation of fucking sociopaths that only interact with their AI companion. 0.99

01:57:09.000 Yeah, maybe. 0.96

01:57:13.000 But whenever these, like, you know, thinking about AI, and I read this great book called The Maniac by Benjamin Lebatou, who talked about Jan Newman, and like, I stopped fearing AI, and it's thought about, like, it's just like, you know, there's so much I don't know.

01:57:27.000 The older I get, I don't know anything.

01:57:28.000 I just keep knowing less.

01:57:30.000 Right.

01:57:31.000 And it feels like if that's the evolution, that's the evolution.

01:57:34.000 There's so much disparate communication now.

01:57:37.000 Porn is such a huge thing.

01:57:38.000 It's just another level of porn. 0.99

01:57:41.000 You know, it's a carnal level of porn, really.

01:57:44.000 But when I think about me as a human being, that's really the only litmus test is like, I'm constantly like, is this person telling me what they really think?

01:57:53.000 You know, is this real?

01:57:55.000 Right.

01:57:56.000 I think that there, at least if I was doing that, right, and I was sitting at home, there'd be a part of me that knows that I'm, again, I'm controlling all of that.

01:58:05.000 Uh-huh.

01:58:06.000 And that's not what really makes me feel serene.

01:58:10.000 You know what it's like?

01:58:11.000 Do you understand what I'm saying?

01:58:12.000 It's like playing a video game on God mode where you can't die.

01:58:16.000 Right.

01:58:16.000 They're no fun.

01:58:17.000 And you know what?

01:58:18.000 For some reason, I never, video games, I had Nintendo Tech Mobile, you know, double dribble, but I never, Zelda, you know, but I never got it.

01:58:27.000 I just never got into video games.

01:58:28.000 I never want to control everything.

01:58:31.000 It's like I want to be in the thing that's surprising.

01:58:35.000 And I'm having to recalculate and understand why I feel this way.

01:58:39.000 Yeah.

01:58:40.000 So I don't know if it'll, I think.

01:58:44.000 I think the thing that maybe will change society more and everything is just the lack of jobs and how we find purpose in life, you know, is a huge, you know, what that transition in civilization will be.

01:58:55.000 Yeah.

01:58:55.000 But this feels like just another progression of our escape through porn in terms of the sexual, which does affect our intimacy with our partners in a massive way because your brain is cycling back through your, that rush, whatever was released in your brain from that other thing.

01:59:09.000 Now you're with this person and it's not the same, you know, markers of stimuli. 0.97

01:59:14.000 So you're like, how are my fucks it up? 0.58

01:59:18.000 That's where that, I can understand that and why it's not healthy for me to look at porn because then it affects my intimacy. 0.98

01:59:24.000 Well, they really say that about young people because a lot of young guys, before they ever have any sexual interaction, are watching porn.

01:59:31.000 Yeah, I mean, yeah.

01:59:32.000 I mean, I've watched these guys that have come on the studies.

01:59:34.000 Yeah, I mean, clear, it makes sense.

01:59:35.000 You know, I didn't grow up looking at, you know, I didn't, my dad didn't have Playboy.

01:59:39.000 I didn't grow up.

01:59:39.000 I still remember there were like cards in the back of a bus that had, you know, solicit, you know, naked women on the back of playing cards.

01:59:46.000 And I remember on the school bus one day, I was like, I saw a car and I picked it over and it was like a naked woman. 1.00

01:59:51.000 I was like, what's that?

01:59:52.000 You know, I didn't see my first porn video until I was like in my late teens.

01:59:57.000 So I didn't grow up with any of that.

01:59:59.000 Yeah.

02:00:01.000 But, you know, it is what it is.

02:00:03.000 It's where we're headed.

02:00:05.000 But all the more reason to create environments like this.

02:00:09.000 Right.

02:00:09.000 And that's why I do love what I get to do.

02:00:12.000 Like, if I can somehow explore something cinematically that I'm personally, again, that goes back to like what's, yeah, just, I can't explain it.

02:00:21.000 It was Will, the thing.

02:00:23.000 I'm just going to explore this.

02:00:24.000 If there's something I feel like I want to do it, if I could explore it and be real, maybe somebody's going to attach to it.

02:00:30.000 Like I'm a huge believer in art.

02:00:32.000 Yeah.

02:00:33.000 You know, I think art is, you know, in any form is a key to our communicative ability and like not feeling alone.

02:00:40.000 It really comes down to me at least, just not feeling alone, part of a community.

02:00:45.000 Yeah.

02:00:45.000 That's it.

02:00:46.000 Because me alone, me alone.

02:00:48.000 And if I'm controlling a robot, it's still me alone.

02:00:51.000 I guess that's what I'm saying.

02:00:53.000 Some part of my brain, even though it's, even if you could create a world, like virtual reality, it doesn't really do it for me.

02:01:00.000 Like the world's creative.

02:01:02.000 I'm like, you know what?

02:01:03.000 I want to live on Mars and you're a dinosaur I'm talking to and we're married.

02:01:09.000 Do you know what I mean?

02:01:10.000 And whatever it is, it's like, I still know I'm controlling it.

02:01:15.000 And it'll never really, for me, I don't know if anybody else.

02:01:18.000 So I don't know how, I don't think it'll ever really solve it.

02:01:22.000 Right.

02:01:23.000 I just don't.

02:01:23.000 It's not going to really resonate.

02:01:25.000 I don't think so.

02:01:26.000 I don't.

02:01:27.000 It'll be escapism, which we do many other things.

02:01:31.000 Smoking weed is young, you know, whatever it was for me, you know, or whatever it is.

02:01:36.000 Not that weed's, that's a communicative thing.

02:01:38.000 That actually, but like anything that's escape, it's just a higher form of it.

02:01:43.000 Well, it's a disconnect, too.

02:01:45.000 It's a disconnect.

02:01:45.000 That's what I mean.

02:01:46.000 Art is a connect, right?

02:01:48.000 It is.

02:01:49.000 When it works, great connect.

02:01:51.000 Great art is expression of someone's humanity that you get to feel like this person did this thing or they're doing this thing right now and I'm watching it like, wow.

02:01:59.000 Like going to see live music for me.

02:02:02.000 Well, music is like our touch to God, no question.

02:02:05.000 That's why the first movie I wanted to make it with music.

02:02:06.000 It's like music.

02:02:07.000 Two people singing to each other that in love.

02:02:09.000 That's it.

02:02:10.000 Yeah.

02:02:11.000 Because first of all, I'm sure you've sang a little bit. 0.98

02:02:14.000 If you're not loose, it's going to sound fucking horrible. 0.98

02:02:19.000 Yep. 0.97

02:02:19.000 Like we're wind and string instruments, both, right? 0.97

02:02:22.000 We're wind and then strings with our vocal cords.

02:02:24.000 Like, and if that's not loose, the sound's going to be horrendous.

02:02:27.000 We're not going to be able to communicate.

02:02:28.000 But if you're loose and you're singing to somebody and they're singing back to you and you're in love, you're actually in love.

02:02:34.000 Whoa.

02:02:35.000 Yeah.

02:02:36.000 Wow.

02:02:37.000 That must be crazy for like people that do a duet that are in love with each other and they're on stage and like 16,000 people. 0.98

02:02:44.000 I mean, the little taste I got doing Starsborn, because we jumped on real stages and sang live, it was fucking crazy, dude. 0.64

02:02:44.000 No, it's not. 0.64

02:02:53.000 Crazy.

02:02:54.000 We went to Glastonbury Music Festival, 80,000 people.

02:02:58.000 Chris Christopherson gave us four minutes of his set.

02:03:01.000 Me, Maddie Lebatik, the DP, Steve Moore, the sound guy.

02:03:05.000 I had my costume in my bag.

02:03:07.000 I went into the bathroom, came back out as Jackson Main, and we had four minutes.

02:03:10.000 I'm singing. 0.99

02:03:11.000 I was like, what the fuck is going on, dude? 0.99

02:03:15.000 I mean, Joe, talk about, you know, it was crazy. 0.99

02:03:18.000 Oh, that's so wild.

02:03:20.000 And then doing it with Lady Gaga, who's actually like, I made my bandwidth like this, you know, so I could pull it off and I could believe it.

02:03:28.000 And then I'm singing with her, and the minute she opens her mouth, it's like that thing comes out.

02:03:33.000 Yeah.

02:03:34.000 And your whole body is tingling.

02:03:36.000 It's crazy.

02:03:37.000 Yeah.

02:03:38.000 It's crazy.

02:03:39.000 Yeah, you can't replace that with AI.

02:03:41.000 I don't think so.

02:03:42.000 No, no, it's impossible.

02:03:44.000 It's impossible.

02:03:45.000 But you can get oddly close with some music.

02:03:51.000 And everything, like art too.

02:03:52.000 You know, you look at AI art, it's incredible.

02:03:52.000 Painting.

02:03:56.000 Well, that spooks me out.

02:03:58.000 Like, how do you feel?

02:04:00.000 I mean, this is one of the things that's really going to be a giant problem for movie making is you can create AI characters that are assembly, they're like, what they've essentially done is take a conglomeration of all of the acting that's ever been done and all the range that anyone has ever shown and they can manipulate it, make it more morose, make it more using prompts of real people.

02:04:28.000 And yeah, we dealt with that with the SAG strike.

02:04:30.000 That was part of the thing.

02:04:31.000 It was this whole AI element to it.

02:04:33.000 And like where we landed.

02:04:33.000 Right.

02:04:35.000 What was the thought from the people from SAG?

02:04:38.000 Like what were they saying?

02:04:38.000 Well, just protecting our ability of our ownership of our likeness so that you can't use it without a compensation.

02:04:44.000 Right.

02:04:45.000 Because they were doing that.

02:04:46.000 Well, I mean, I think to build these machines, you have to prompt.

02:04:51.000 Yeah.

02:04:51.000 You know, so that, and then you're prompting using what's existing.

02:04:57.000 Yeah.

02:04:58.000 And then how do you, how do you, you know, it's just reframing how do you allocate funds to someone when you're using a prompt that's based on the human being who's an actor.

02:05:07.000 And, you know, do you patent your likeness?

02:05:09.000 You know, we're just moving in.

02:05:10.000 It's the Wild West.

02:05:12.000 It's the Wild West.

02:05:12.000 Yeah.

02:05:14.000 Uncharted.

02:05:15.000 Oh, yeah.

02:05:16.000 In every way.

02:05:16.000 Yeah.

02:05:18.000 You know, like there's podcasts that are AI driven now.

02:05:20.000 You could watch a discussion and that would be a podcast.

02:05:23.000 I think Glenn Beck just released the first Glenn Beck completely AI podcast.

02:05:28.000 I was like, okay.

02:05:28.000 Right.

02:05:29.000 But does that scare you?

02:05:31.000 No.

02:05:31.000 It doesn't scare me either.

02:05:32.000 No, it doesn't scare me with that, with podcasting, because I think one of the things that people come to podcasting from is this desire to be like a dose of humanity is how I describe it.

02:05:46.000 I want real interaction between two real people and I feel it and I know it's real.

02:05:51.000 And there's something about that that gives me comfort when I'm driving my car or when I'm on a plane.

02:05:56.000 You know, like I'm listening to these two people interact and I'm thinking like, how would I, what would I say?

02:06:02.000 What do I think about this?

02:06:03.000 Oh, I get where he's going from.

02:06:05.000 Oh, wow.

02:06:05.000 Okay.

02:06:06.000 That's his perspective.

02:06:07.000 Oh, that's interesting.

02:06:08.000 And then it makes me like rethink things or think about things with fresh eyes.

02:06:13.000 I don't think you're going to be able to do that.

02:06:15.000 But also, if I know it's AI, if you tell me it's AI, I'm not going to trust anything that's saying anything on that level.

02:06:21.000 Yeah.

02:06:21.000 Because it's not me I'm listening to.

02:06:23.000 Right.

02:06:24.000 It's fascinating for a while.

02:06:26.000 And then it's like, well, I kind of want to just not feel alone.

02:06:29.000 Right.

02:06:30.000 Back to that.

02:06:31.000 Well, there's an emptiness to AI music.

02:06:34.000 I love a lot of AI music, but there's an, I love AI covers.

02:06:38.000 Like, they've done some AI covers.

02:06:39.000 No, I've heard, you know.

02:06:40.000 The 50 Cent one?

02:06:41.000 No, yeah, bro.

02:06:42.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:06:42.000 How good?

02:06:43.000 How good is it?

02:06:43.000 Yeah, no, it's sick.

02:06:44.000 It's sick.

02:06:45.000 I was like, if that guy was alive, if this was a real person, he'd be like one of the biggest artists in the world.

02:06:45.000 It's sick.

02:06:49.000 He's a fucking dynamo. 1.00

02:06:51.000 But there's an emptiness to it where you know, like, there's no human, there's no humanity, there's no soul. 1.00

02:06:51.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:06:56.000 There's no, you might enjoy it in the moment, but you better have some real shit, too. 1.00

02:07:00.000 But the truth is, I listen to that. 0.99

02:07:01.000 I don't know that there's no soul because I'm not seeing the person sing it.

02:07:04.000 Right.

02:07:05.000 You know, and so much music is manipulated anyway, the voice where it goes through the system.

02:07:09.000 And, you know, but if I'm watching a human being, that's why people love to go watch people perform live.

02:07:14.000 Yeah.

02:07:14.000 You know, I don't know that guy that, you know, that AI thing of the 50 Cent is a huge.

02:07:17.000 If you told me that was a guy, I'd be like, oh, I can't wait to see him.

02:07:19.000 I would have no idea that's not a guy.

02:07:21.000 We play it in the green room when no one's and they're like, who is this guy?

02:07:26.000 Like, it's not a person.

02:07:26.000 But of course, how would you know?

02:07:28.000 But everybody has the same reaction.

02:07:29.000 Like, oh, no.

02:07:31.000 Right.

02:07:32.000 Right.

02:07:32.000 That's how the reaction is ever.

02:07:33.000 It's like, oh, no.

02:07:34.000 I don't know what's wrong with me, but I don't feel that.

02:07:36.000 I'm like, cool.

02:07:37.000 Yeah.

02:07:38.000 But we've been through things before, you know?

02:07:38.000 I don't know.

02:07:41.000 This is a bigger one, though.

02:07:42.000 No, no, it is.

02:07:43.000 But relatively speaking, it's probably not.

02:07:47.000 Contextually.

02:07:48.000 Right.

02:07:48.000 You know.

02:07:49.000 The printing press, internal combustion engine.

02:07:52.000 Airplanes.

02:07:52.000 You know, all that.

02:07:53.000 Here we go.

02:07:54.000 Cell phones.

02:07:54.000 Yeah.

02:07:55.000 Yeah.

02:07:56.000 AI music.

02:07:58.000 And AI film.

02:07:58.000 Yeah.

02:08:00.000 I mean, you can produce a full feature film with prompts now.

02:08:05.000 Yeah.

02:08:05.000 Which is just nuts.

02:08:07.000 Have you seen any of the AI Star Wars clips fan-made?

02:08:12.000 It's nuts.

02:08:12.000 Yeah.

02:08:13.000 I have a couple buddies that did some stuff that was fascinating. 0.98

02:08:13.000 Fucking nuts. 0.98

02:08:13.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:08:17.000 It's cool.

02:08:17.000 Yeah.

02:08:18.000 Yeah.

02:08:19.000 I don't.

02:08:20.000 It's like if the ocean's flowing, what are you going to?

02:08:25.000 I mean, it's going to happen.

02:08:27.000 Yeah, I mean, you build the dam.

02:08:28.000 Okay.

02:08:29.000 It's John Henry, dude.

02:08:30.000 It's John Henry in the steam engine.

02:08:31.000 I always think about that song when I was a kid.

02:08:33.000 They must have played on PBS.

02:08:34.000 You know, it's like steam engine's coming, bro.

02:08:37.000 It's like, you know, you may be able to lay the track one guy could, but then he died.

02:08:37.000 Yeah.

02:08:41.000 You know, it is what it is.

02:08:44.000 And once I sort of give myself over to it, you know, I don't know.

02:08:48.000 It feels like for me personally, it's a waste of time to be emotionally upended by it.

02:08:54.000 I agree with that.

02:08:55.000 That's all.

02:08:56.000 I think that's a healthy perspective because I think it is inevitable, but it is also.

02:09:00.000 And the truth is, we don't know what's inevitable.

02:09:02.000 We know something's inevitable.

02:09:03.000 There's a movement, but no one knows.

02:09:04.000 We just don't know.

02:09:05.000 We may not be around by the time it happens anyway.

02:09:08.000 Meaning, like, who knows?

02:09:09.000 We just don't know anything.

02:09:10.000 Right.

02:09:11.000 That's the truth.

02:09:11.000 And that's what's so terrifying.

02:09:13.000 That's why we want to escape.

02:09:14.000 Yeah.

02:09:15.000 At least me.

02:09:16.000 By the way, I'm saying all this generally, but that's, I go back to like, what do I feel?

02:09:21.000 It's like, okay, so how can I, you know, this is totally out of my control.

02:09:25.000 So why am I terrified?

02:09:27.000 Just breathe through it.

02:09:28.000 Okay.

02:09:28.000 It'll be an adjustment.

02:09:29.000 Because the other thing I think, people change.

02:09:31.000 People do change in life.

02:09:31.000 I don't know what you think.

02:09:35.000 Like, I just think we change.

02:09:37.000 Like, I'm not the same person I was five years ago.

02:09:39.000 Of course.

02:09:40.000 You know, some people don't think that.

02:09:42.000 You know, like, you're always the same.

02:09:43.000 Like, I don't think that. 1.00

02:09:45.000 Those people are silly. 1.00

02:09:46.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:09:46.000 I really, people. 1.00

02:09:47.000 People change.

02:09:48.000 People change.

02:09:49.000 They change by the minute.

02:09:50.000 Yeah.

02:09:50.000 But I mean, like, major changes.

02:09:53.000 You know, and I don't, do you ever think back in your life and you're like, I've lived so many lives.

02:09:53.000 Yeah.

02:09:58.000 Yeah.

02:09:58.000 Like, it's crazy.

02:10:00.000 If you live a good life, I think that's the case.

02:10:02.000 Yeah.

02:10:03.000 You, you're going to change.

02:10:04.000 And if you don't, like, how, why not?

02:10:09.000 Yeah.

02:10:09.000 Maybe if you don't live so many lives.

02:10:10.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:10:11.000 You just nail it when you were 21 and ride that fucking boat right into the rocks now? 0.99

02:10:16.000 No, because everything else is changing. 0.99

02:10:17.000 Yeah.

02:10:18.000 Yeah, you have to change.

02:10:18.000 Yeah.

02:10:20.000 But it's just this change is a strange change because we're essentially creating an artificial life form that can interact with us right now in a way that you can manipulate, like this AI sex bot, but eventually it's going to interact with you and you're not going to be able to manipulate it.

02:10:39.000 It's going to be a life form.

02:10:42.000 Yeah, that's going to be something.

02:10:43.000 Yeah, the entertainment aspect of it is just a side effect.

02:10:47.000 I don't even think the entertainment.

02:10:49.000 Yeah, that's not even the thing.

02:10:50.000 The thing is, life's going to change.

02:10:52.000 That's what I feel like, too.

02:10:53.000 It's like, oh, the storytelling.

02:10:54.000 I don't think that's our biggest concern.

02:10:58.000 The storytelling thing is going to be weird.

02:11:00.000 But like, that's that.

02:11:01.000 We're talking about a minute-to-minute life existence change.

02:11:07.000 Most probably.

02:11:08.000 It's essentially going to be a life form.

02:11:10.000 And, you know, there's a lot of technologists that are looking at it and they're saying this should be studied by biologists and not by people that are involved in technology because this is kind of a life form.

02:11:25.000 It's just a life form.

02:11:26.000 It's fascinating.

02:11:27.000 He's a human being is what we do.

02:11:28.000 Oh, yeah.

02:11:29.000 It's like, isn't Mark Zuckerberg building the size of Manhattan for a place to be able to create and generate a computer for an AI?

02:11:36.000 You know, like the amount of energy that we're, you know, every, you know, it's fascinating.

02:11:40.000 Well, they need their own nuclear power plant.

02:11:40.000 Human beings.

02:11:42.000 That's just a fascinating just art.

02:11:45.000 Yeah.

02:11:46.000 And then if you have an enemy, there's competition.

02:11:48.000 Right.

02:11:49.000 Right.

02:11:49.000 Yeah.

02:11:50.000 And you better create one so that you could be motivated.

02:11:54.000 It's really interesting.

02:11:56.000 I just, if you ever stop and think, like, what does 50 years from now look like?

02:12:00.000 Oh, it's, you know, I think about, again, with kids.

02:12:03.000 My daughter and I, we walk through, because I live in New York, we talk about it all the time.

02:12:07.000 Like, what's going to be here when you're my age?

02:12:09.000 It's like, what do you think?

02:12:10.000 You know, we talk about it all the time, about whether she even needs to get a driver's license.

02:12:13.000 You know, she's eight. 0.72

02:12:14.000 You know, it's really fascinating.

02:12:16.000 Like, or way most of it.

02:12:16.000 Right.

02:12:17.000 But when I was eight, as opposed to now, when I was eight, I mean, I remember having a beeper, you know, and I thought that was like crazy.

02:12:26.000 Yeah.

02:12:27.000 Yeah.

02:12:27.000 And a StarTack phone.

02:12:29.000 Yeah.

02:12:29.000 I was like, whoa.

02:12:30.000 I got one when I moved to LA.

02:12:31.000 Oh, man.

02:12:32.000 I remember that. 0.99

02:12:32.000 We started living in the fucking future. 0.99

02:12:35.000 Any excuse to fucking pull up the antenna, Motorola. 1.00

02:12:39.000 I got the extended battery. 0.99

02:12:39.000 Yes, dude. 0.99

02:12:41.000 Oh, that shot battery.

02:12:42.000 Of course, of course.

02:12:43.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:12:44.000 I can call people whenever I want.

02:12:45.000 Yeah, man.

02:12:46.000 I remember when BlackBerry died and iPhone, I was one of the last people.

02:12:49.000 I kept that BlackBerry.

02:12:50.000 I kept the BlackBerry deep into the game.

02:12:53.000 I needed that keyboard.

02:12:53.000 Me too.

02:12:54.000 I was like, this is not going to work.

02:12:56.000 Yeah.

02:12:56.000 Right.

02:12:57.000 My thumbs are too big.

02:12:58.000 Now I hardly ever even actually type.

02:13:01.000 Well, I do when I write, but when I talk to people, I just talk text.

02:13:04.000 You do?

02:13:05.000 I do not do that.

02:13:06.000 It's so good.

02:13:07.000 It's so much quicker than me to do that.

02:13:09.000 I always have a hard time turning it on and then knowing it's not a voice memo or the thing.

02:13:14.000 I got to look at it.

02:13:15.000 You know what I'm talking about?

02:13:16.000 Just slide, go up.

02:13:17.000 Yeah.

02:13:18.000 It's the embracing of it is inevitable.

02:13:23.000 But it's like, where is it going and what is it going to lead us to?

02:13:26.000 And how many different jobs are just going to vanish?

02:13:29.000 That's what's really scary, like giving people purpose and meaning because so many people, their purpose and meaning is their occupation.

02:13:35.000 And if your occupation is completely irrelevant, it just doesn't work anymore.

02:13:40.000 It's like, you know, again, I think back to me and my upbringing, my grandfather, who was a B cop for 35 years, I don't think you would say his purpose was that.

02:13:49.000 You know, I think his purpose was his family.

02:13:52.000 And my purpose is my family.

02:13:55.000 And it's not my job, even though I get to do something I absolutely love.

02:14:00.000 I don't know that people's purpose innately is their job.

02:14:06.000 You know, I think it's a, I do think for me, I just like, you know, God's in all of us, it's like whatever you want to say of God, like the need to communicate to create experiences that we don't feel alone because it's fucking terrifying being on this little thing who knows where we are and then we're gone.

02:14:25.000 Yeah.

02:14:26.000 I mean, it's a horror movie.

02:14:28.000 Yeah.

02:14:29.000 So what do we get?

02:14:30.000 We got to band together and communicate.

02:14:32.000 Well, I've thought about that too.

02:14:33.000 When people say, you know, the jobs are going to go away and we're going to have universal basic income and the problem is then no one will have any motivation and a lot of people lost without meaning.

02:14:43.000 I'm like, well, why?

02:14:45.000 Why?

02:14:46.000 Because when did working even become your purpose in life?

02:14:53.000 Like this is a means to an end to provide, you know.

02:14:57.000 But it's a construct.

02:14:59.000 It's not the only way human beings can live.

02:15:02.000 And if we've learned anything about ourselves as a human species, we can adapt.

02:15:06.000 Yes.

02:15:07.000 Yeah.

02:15:07.000 You know, highly able to adapt.

02:15:10.000 Right.

02:15:11.000 But what does that adaptation look like?

02:15:12.000 And how do you educate people to not just seek a safe job that's going to provide for your family, but instead seek a purpose, seek a thing that gives you fulfillment, a thing where you feel like you're contributing to the world.

02:15:28.000 Or like maybe it'll lead to an explosion of human-created art.

02:15:33.000 Because I think one of the things that's going to happen for sure is people are going to really greatly appreciate things that other human beings have made.

02:15:41.000 Because you've got to go, oh, well, this is, but this is handmade.

02:15:44.000 This is made by a guy in Wisconsin.

02:15:46.000 You know, he's got a shop.

02:15:48.000 You can watch his shop on niche.

02:15:49.000 It's all huge niche.

02:15:51.000 We just got to get more people to embrace that kind of life, like giving them purpose and creation.

02:15:51.000 Yeah.

02:15:59.000 And I think most people are creative.

02:16:01.000 It's just that creativity is probably like pushed out of you when you sort of conform to society's ideas of what you're supposed to be doing with your life.

02:16:11.000 Or you feel like you're told in a competitive environment that you're not creative.

02:16:16.000 You know, if you're not helped along the way in those developing years by at least somebody, it could be knocked out of you.

02:16:16.000 Right.

02:16:24.000 Yes.

02:16:25.000 No question.

02:16:26.000 I mean, I even look back and think of like a couple of people that believed in me and I'm like, yeah, without that, I don't know.

02:16:32.000 Oh, yeah.

02:16:33.000 Even with how much I love it.

02:16:34.000 Yeah.

02:16:35.000 Yeah.

02:16:37.000 I think, you know, children are almost all creative. 0.95

02:16:42.000 They're always playing and fucking around with dolls and fucking around with Legos and they're moving things around and they're using their mind to their drawing. 0.96

02:16:51.000 They're doing stuff that's creative. 0.97

02:16:54.000 It's just after a while, that part of their life just kind of goes away and atrophies.

02:16:59.000 And then they embrace the grind of whatever.

02:17:02.000 So it could lead to some sort of burst in that.

02:17:05.000 Yeah.

02:17:06.000 The hard part's going to be people that are already set in their ways and when their job just goes away, when it just becomes irrelevant.

02:17:12.000 And that's about governing.

02:17:14.000 Yeah.

02:17:14.000 And what do we do?

02:17:15.000 Yeah.

02:17:16.000 No, the government's terrible at everything.

02:17:17.000 They're not going to be able to do that.

02:17:18.000 But it's like getting people to be creative.

02:17:20.000 Or just like, how do we deal with that?

02:17:21.000 You know, any transition can be various states of volatility.

02:17:25.000 What do you think movie making is going to be like?

02:17:28.000 I mean, how much of a play is AI going to have in filmmaking?

02:17:33.000 I mean, it already has a play, you know, in it, you know, in terms of what certain houses use, you know, whether it's writing or special effects.

02:17:40.000 Or I don't even know how much AI is used.

02:17:42.000 You know, I'm sure it is.

02:17:43.000 I'm sure it's used at every level, just like in every other aspect of the workforce.

02:17:49.000 But I don't know.

02:17:52.000 All I know is like, again, telling stories where you feel like you can relate to it no matter how.

02:17:52.000 I don't know.

02:18:02.000 And what's wonderful is, you know, I'm watching Avatar.

02:18:05.000 Like I saw a movie the other night that I didn't believe anybody in it.

02:18:09.000 You know, and if I'm not believing it, I just, I can't, I can't stay awake.

02:18:13.000 Yeah.

02:18:13.000 You know?

02:18:13.000 Yeah.

02:18:14.000 And I just, I love Avatar.

02:18:15.000 I love, you know, and I love sci-fi stuff.

02:18:17.000 I love it.

02:18:18.000 And I'm, and I, I, and Leah, and we were watching, uh, because we watched three and then two and we were watching one.

02:18:23.000 So in bed, we were watching one, parts of one.

02:18:25.000 And I was like, I had just gone from watching this movie that like, I didn't believe anything anybody was doing the whole time.

02:18:32.000 So I was out of it.

02:18:33.000 And then I'm like watching Avatar for two seconds.

02:18:35.000 Two people are talking.

02:18:36.000 Yeah, they're on a thing and they're blue, but they're talking to each other.

02:18:38.000 Right.

02:18:39.000 I think they're whatever they're doing, they're talking to each other.

02:18:39.000 I don't know.

02:18:42.000 Yeah.

02:18:42.000 So Avatar was fascinating because of Avatar Depression.

02:18:46.000 You know about Avatar Depression?

02:18:48.000 There were so many people that loved Avatar so much and connected with the idea of living on Pandora and being in that world and being the navy that they wished that they were there.

02:19:00.000 I get it.

02:19:01.000 And so they were developing Avatar Depression.

02:19:03.000 It was like they were talking about it.

02:19:06.000 Like it was a psychological condition that people were affected by.

02:19:09.000 That's how good that movie was.

02:19:11.000 It gave people depression.

02:19:11.000 Yeah.

02:19:12.000 That was what they're doing.

02:19:13.000 So they were like a giant blue person.

02:19:15.000 The color blue.

02:19:16.000 That alone.

02:19:17.000 You know, and the color of blue that James Cameron landed on.

02:19:21.000 What do you think that is?

02:19:22.000 I don't know, but that blue is pretty wonderful.

02:19:24.000 Do you think it's the ocean when the sun hits it?

02:19:26.000 It feels like the Caribbean or something.

02:19:29.000 It's light.

02:19:29.000 Yeah.

02:19:29.000 Right.

02:19:30.000 Exactly.

02:19:30.000 It's like white sand and overhead light through water.

02:19:34.000 Yeah.

02:19:35.000 That is weird.

02:19:36.000 Because if they were.

02:19:37.000 By the way, I'm like, when's four and five?

02:19:37.000 Well, I get it.

02:19:39.000 Come on.

02:19:40.000 Right, right.

02:19:40.000 I haven't seen three yet.

02:19:41.000 Is it great?

02:19:42.000 I loved it.

02:19:43.000 I loved one and two.

02:19:44.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:19:45.000 I fucking love those movies. 0.98

02:19:46.000 Me too. 0.99

02:19:47.000 Yeah.

02:19:47.000 There's a great ride at Disney.

02:19:49.000 I heard about it in Orlando, right?

02:19:51.000 Yeah, I can't wait to go.

02:19:53.000 Are you on the...

02:19:54.000 Yeah, yeah. That's crazy.

02:19:55.000 It's a VR ride.

02:19:56.000 You put a helmet on and you sit on this thing that looks like a motorcycle.

02:20:00.000 Oh, my God.

02:20:01.000 And then all of a sudden, like, you feel wind.

02:20:03.000 It's got physical elements to it and smells and mist.

02:20:07.000 You're flying on one of those dragon things.

02:20:09.000 Yeah.

02:20:09.000 And you're flying around Pandora.

02:20:10.000 It's incredible.

02:20:12.000 But that movie was so impactful that people got depressed that they weren't living there.

02:20:18.000 Yeah, I get it.

02:20:19.000 Yeah.

02:20:20.000 I mean, I think it happens all the time.

02:20:21.000 They just have a term for it now.

02:20:23.000 But I'm sure it happened with Star Wars.

02:20:25.000 Dancing with wolves.

02:20:26.000 Oh, really?

02:20:27.000 I mean, how many people wanted to be a Native American and live with the Native Americans because they saw Kevin Costner do it? 0.92

02:20:27.000 Yeah. 0.92

02:20:33.000 Like, oh, this is better. 1.00

02:20:34.000 This is better than living in the town with all those assholes going to the saloon. 1.00

02:20:39.000 Just dancing with a woman. 1.00

02:20:41.000 Yeah, there's something about that.

02:20:43.000 You know, there's something about living in harmony that appeals to people.

02:20:48.000 And I think that has always been the appeal of, you know, there was a lot of people that were kidnapped when they were young by Native American tribes.

02:20:57.000 Like there's a photo outside in the lobby.

02:20:59.000 I don't know if you saw it, of Quana Parker.

02:21:03.000 He's the last of the Comanche chiefs. 0.99

02:21:07.000 And there's a lot of city streets and areas all around Austin that are named after Comanche.

02:21:16.000 There's like Quana Parker Lane and all these things.

02:21:19.000 And his mom was Cynthia Ann Parker.

02:21:22.000 She was kidnapped by the Comanche when she was nine. 0.92

02:21:25.000 They killed her family, wiped out her whole family in Oklahoma.

02:21:28.000 It's documented in the book Empire of the Summer Moon.

02:21:31.000 It's an incredible book that all talks about the conquering of Texas and the Comanche fighting the Texas Rangers.

02:21:40.000 But this woman was kidnapped when she was nine, married the Comanche chief, and her son was Quana Parker.

02:21:48.000 So her son was half colonizer, half native, half Comanche, and he became the last Comanche chief. 0.60

02:21:56.000 And this lady, they rescued her when she was 30, and she kept trying to escape.

02:22:01.000 She wanted to go back.

02:22:03.000 Like no one ever went to the Native Americans and then wanted to go back to regular Western life.

02:22:11.000 They all wanted to stay with the Native Americans. 1.00

02:22:14.000 They all, they loved that life.

02:22:17.000 There's something about this ancient way of living, subsistence hunting, living on the land that was resonated on your show on the show about the need to go out in nature.

02:22:29.000 Oh, yeah.

02:22:30.000 I couldn't agree more.

02:22:32.000 I mean, it's like, oh, right.

02:22:34.000 You know, it's very important.

02:22:36.000 I think it's a vitamin.

02:22:38.000 No question.

02:22:39.000 Yeah.

02:22:40.000 And also, like, you think about, I mean, yeah, I'm a fan of all that.

02:22:40.000 Native American.

02:22:43.000 There's this guy, great writer, M. Scott Mamede and Sherman Alexi, you know, just writing about, it's pretty, yeah, it's fascinating.

02:22:50.000 Yeah.

02:22:51.000 But people that were, that went and lived with the Native Americans never wanted to go back to the West. 0.96

02:23:00.000 But people that lived in a Native American life and then moved to the West, they always wanted to go back. 0.99

02:23:07.000 Like it never went the other way.

02:23:10.000 But somehow or another, the way of the Western people, the way of the settlers won out by sheer volume and numbers and this constant progress.

02:23:20.000 Technology.

02:23:20.000 Yeah.

02:23:21.000 Yeah.

02:23:22.000 I mean, that was the reason why they were able to pull it off in the first place was the cult revolver.

02:23:28.000 Because without the revolver, they all had muskets and the Comanche had like five, six arrows and they would run at them. 1.00

02:23:34.000 That's Mel Gibson movie. 0.54

02:23:35.000 Remember the end of the Mel Gibson movie?

02:23:36.000 Which movie?

02:23:38.000 Apocalypto?

02:23:38.000 Yeah.

02:23:39.000 Oh, yeah.

02:23:40.000 He finally escapes and he gets to the beach and then the boats are coming.

02:23:43.000 Yeah.

02:23:45.000 Yeah.

02:23:46.000 Just watch them go through the whole thing.

02:23:48.000 You're like, the musket's coming.

02:23:50.000 Yeah.

02:23:51.000 The musket and then the rifle.

02:23:52.000 Yeah.

02:23:53.000 And then the revolver.

02:23:54.000 Yeah.

02:23:55.000 It's like, yeah.

02:23:56.000 Well, it was just steel.

02:23:57.000 You know, that was the crazy thing about the Aztecs and Cortez is just they had steel armor and they were riding horses and everybody's like, these guys are gods.

02:24:06.000 Like this is crazy.

02:24:07.000 They have metal.

02:24:10.000 And that's all it took.

02:24:11.000 13 muskets.

02:24:13.000 13 muskets, 600 men.

02:24:15.000 Yeah.

02:24:16.000 Conquered Mexico. 0.97

02:24:19.000 It's just, it's weird the way progress moves.

02:24:27.000 I mean, you can call it progress, but is it even better?

02:24:29.000 I mean, what is progress?

02:24:31.000 It's like technological innovation and adaptation to it.

02:24:35.000 I don't know if it's progress.

02:24:36.000 It all feels very overwhelming.

02:24:38.000 And I think that's where the downside of our ability to have so much access to information, or me, have so much access to information is that it starts to take my breath away.

02:24:49.000 And then that's why it's like, what's just simple.

02:24:52.000 Well, that's why it's smart that you're not on social media.

02:24:54.000 Right.

02:24:55.000 Yeah, because that's the main tap into the overwhelming.

02:25:00.000 But I still feel overwhelmed.

02:25:01.000 You know, even though I'm not on social media, whatever my news feed is, you know what I mean?

02:25:05.000 And what I can actively look up and listen to is still 100 times X as when I was a teenager.

02:25:12.000 You know, the fact that I even have a phone to do it.

02:25:12.000 Oh, yeah.

02:25:15.000 Right.

02:25:16.000 You know, so I even feel that.

02:25:17.000 But you're right.

02:25:18.000 I can't even imagine what social media does.

02:25:20.000 It does a lot.

02:25:21.000 And it really does a lot for young people.

02:25:25.000 They're just being wired in a way that no human being has ever been wired before.

02:25:30.000 Like just their whole, all of their interactions are different than anybody that's ever lived, which is so strange.

02:25:38.000 It's like, because there's been minor changes over time that have led to like just the invention of cable, right?

02:25:46.000 Just that.

02:25:47.000 That changed everything.

02:25:48.000 It just changed it for me.

02:25:49.000 I probably wouldn't have wanted to do this.

02:25:52.000 I mean, there was a movie theater across, my backyard was train tracks and then the movie theater.

02:25:55.000 I loved it.

02:25:56.000 Watched Stand By Me 100 times.

02:25:58.000 Would walk in and pretend that I was there.

02:26:00.000 But then like Comcast came through and Prism and HBO and all of a sudden I can watch Taxi Driver 14 times and The Elephant Man and Popeye and Apocalypse Now and Raging Bull.

02:26:13.000 Like, you know, from 12 to on that I would never have had.

02:26:18.000 It was like Platoon for six months, Yentel.

02:26:21.000 You know what I mean?

02:26:21.000 It's like there was one choice.

02:26:24.000 So yeah, it's interesting.

02:26:27.000 Well, it's weird too now that you have instantaneous access.

02:26:31.000 Like now it's not even, oh, Apocalypse Now is on at eight o'clock on the show.

02:26:34.000 I mean, we just pulled up the clip that I was talking about, which is instantly in the middle of a conversation.

02:26:39.000 Which is wonderful.

02:26:40.000 Yeah.

02:26:41.000 It's great if it doesn't overwhelm you.

02:26:43.000 If you use it and it doesn't use you.

02:26:43.000 Yeah.

02:26:45.000 Yeah.

02:26:46.000 But the problem is.

02:26:47.000 I feel like that with music.

02:26:48.000 I feel like that with so many things, don't you?

02:26:50.000 It's like, yeah, that's why I love books still.

02:26:52.000 I still love books.

02:26:53.000 It's like a physical conversation.

02:26:55.000 I love books.

02:26:55.000 Yeah, I do.

02:26:57.000 Yeah, I don't necessarily read books very often.

02:27:00.000 Most of my interaction with literature is just audio.

02:27:04.000 Yeah.

02:27:04.000 Just because of a time thing.

02:27:06.000 For me, my time is just, it's too difficult for me to manage.

02:27:06.000 Right.

02:27:10.000 I have a hard time staying with audio books.

02:27:15.000 Yeah, retaining it.

02:27:16.000 I start thinking about the rhythm of the voice and my brain goes to other things.

02:27:21.000 Like, who's the person talking?

02:27:23.000 You know, where are they sitting?

02:27:24.000 I don't know.

02:27:25.000 Like, it changes.

02:27:26.000 Well, that's probably why you're a great actor.

02:27:27.000 Yeah, maybe.

02:27:28.000 I mean, it has to have something to do with it because you're considering this as a human being and absorbing their humanity.

02:27:36.000 Right.

02:27:37.000 Where this is like words and like unlocks my imagination.

02:27:40.000 Yeah.

02:27:40.000 It's like, I'm here.

02:27:41.000 And it's like, I don't know what's going to come.

02:27:43.000 The words are in your head.

02:27:43.000 Right.

02:27:44.000 The voices are in your head.

02:27:45.000 Yes.

02:27:46.000 Yeah.

02:27:46.000 And you don't necessarily have to assign a sound to them.

02:27:50.000 Yeah.

02:27:51.000 They take on and they change and they morph and you don't know what's going to happen.

02:27:54.000 There's probably a real value to that just in terms of the enhancement of your own intellect just to constantly be doing that.

02:28:03.000 And as you're reading this, be engrossed and absorbed in this person's writing and then like being taken on this journey.

02:28:12.000 Yes.

02:28:13.000 Where it's like stimulating all these parts of your life.

02:28:16.000 I was just on the track in Rome in the Olympics.

02:28:19.000 You know what I mean?

02:28:19.000 And the guy was just coming and taking, you know, wearing two sweatshirts to like intimidate.

02:28:23.000 You know, like, it's amazing.

02:28:26.000 Yeah.

02:28:28.000 But the thing that's maybe changing is like it does ask a lot of the reader or the viewer to use to come at it with their imagination.

02:28:36.000 Yes.

02:28:37.000 And then there's something about taking all that away and you're just receiving.

02:28:42.000 That'll be in, it's very new.

02:28:44.000 Yeah.

02:28:45.000 And then, yeah, that's a huge change.

02:28:47.000 There's not so much communication going on.

02:28:49.000 It's just receiving.

02:28:50.000 But there's also the mastery of like that guy doing Lord of the Rings and like the taking in what he's doing.

02:28:58.000 You know? 0.98

02:28:59.000 Then realize this one fucking person is doing all these different voices. 1.00

02:29:02.000 It's just nuts. 1.00

02:29:03.000 That's crazy.

02:29:04.000 Yeah.

02:29:05.000 But it's you have more access now to other people's creations than ever before.

02:29:11.000 Like you can be absorbed in other people's work all the time now.

02:29:14.000 Yes.

02:29:15.000 Instantaneously on your phone.

02:29:16.000 I'm sitting here.

02:29:17.000 I'm bored.

02:29:18.000 Let me just get someone's creation and plug it into my head.

02:29:22.000 Or somebody's thoughts on something or research they've done.

02:29:25.000 Yeah.

02:29:25.000 That's what's amazing.

02:29:26.000 Oh, yeah.

02:29:27.000 That's what's, and that's what I've learned on your show too.

02:29:28.000 Just every, you know, that just that I didn't, no one had access like to that.

02:29:33.000 Or it was frowned upon.

02:29:34.000 Right.

02:29:35.000 Or like, well, you're not smart if you talk about this.

02:29:37.000 Right.

02:29:38.000 You know, it's like, let everybody decide. 0.99

02:29:40.000 And the truth is, we don't know fucking anything. 0.98

02:29:40.000 Right. 0.98

02:29:42.000 No.

02:29:43.000 Well, there's a lot of gatekeepers when it comes to what you should or should not be interested in.

02:29:48.000 Or should or should I remember discussing?

02:29:48.000 Yeah.

02:29:50.000 I remember being in college and there was a student, African-American student who I really, I was friends with.

02:29:55.000 And I remember him saying, like, man, the one course, he's like, it's just not, they're not telling the story.

02:30:01.000 And I remember he went and he talked, this is in 1995 or four.

02:30:05.000 Wait, and I graduated in 97 from college.

02:30:08.000 Yeah, so like, yeah, four or five.

02:30:09.000 I think I was a sophomore.

02:30:11.000 And like, he was just, what he was talking about was like other, other ways of looking at history.

02:30:16.000 And like, can't we just look at other stuff?

02:30:19.000 And it's fascinating.

02:30:20.000 You know, now it's like there's whole, you know, courses on it or sections that you can read and learn and hear what people, you know, that's kind of amazing.

02:30:30.000 Yeah.

02:30:31.000 It definitely is.

02:30:32.000 I think it's amazing.

02:30:33.000 As long as you could be, you know, like, not strict, but as long as you can be, you know, what's the word?

02:30:43.000 You know, that you're like, okay, I'm looking at it.

02:30:45.000 This is not, you know, the Bible of what it is, but let me just hear this take.

02:30:52.000 You know, that's only healthy, I think.

02:30:55.000 You know?

02:30:55.000 100%.

02:30:56.000 The problem and the fear is like, oh, no, you're going to get, and then the cults and the group and the thing, and all of a sudden there's a movement.

02:31:01.000 And, you know, but whenever that happens anyway, there's so much infighting and the thing gets diluted anyway.

02:31:07.000 Like it's, there's no, it's never going to work.

02:31:10.000 Right.

02:31:11.000 Well, that's the thing about the Bible itself is the Bible is a series of stories that were an oral tradition for who knows how many years before eventually wrote it down.

02:31:22.000 Then they translated it from dead languages and eventually to English.

02:31:25.000 And you're like, what is this?

02:31:27.000 Like, what, what was the original?

02:31:29.000 What is the meaning of this?

02:31:31.000 And you don't even have to go back that far.

02:31:31.000 Like, what?

02:31:33.000 It's like just how we take it, you know, label, you know, all they are are labels of what's words, language.

02:31:39.000 You and I communicate using these system of symbols, vocal symbols that we both think mean something.

02:31:45.000 But when I say protein bites, it's like you're looking at that differently than I am.

02:31:45.000 Yeah.

02:31:50.000 So it's so impossible anyway.

02:31:52.000 We're just desperately trying to communicate.

02:31:54.000 Yes.

02:31:55.000 That's all we're doing.

02:31:56.000 Desperately.

02:31:57.000 And have a story.

02:31:58.000 Like, what's our story?

02:31:59.000 What's our story?

02:32:00.000 That's going to be the weirdest aspect of communication through technology is that we're going to get to a point where we're communicating without words.

02:32:07.000 That's going to get really weird.

02:32:09.000 Telepathy.

02:32:10.000 That to me is scary because I don't trust my thoughts.

02:32:14.000 Do you know what I mean?

02:32:15.000 Like if I've learned anything as I've gotten older, it's like, oh, yeah, let that wash through me.

02:32:18.000 I don't have to judge myself for that.

02:32:20.000 That was crazy.

02:32:21.000 Right.

02:32:21.000 Whoa.

02:32:22.000 Right.

02:32:22.000 No, no, no.

02:32:23.000 It's okay.

02:32:23.000 Let it wash through.

02:32:24.000 Judge me by my actions.

02:32:25.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:32:26.000 I do believe that.

02:32:27.000 Not by what's going on inside my head.

02:32:29.000 Yeah.

02:32:30.000 Yeah.

02:32:30.000 And then managing the thoughts and deciding what to act on and what not to.

02:32:35.000 And imagine like trying to consciously control your thought.

02:32:38.000 I mean, all of a sudden, talk about control, trying to control.

02:32:42.000 Well, I think it's going to be a completely different way of interacting with each other.

02:32:45.000 That's going to be as crazy as internet communication and what we're dealing with now.

02:32:53.000 That's going to be another level of crazy because we're essentially going to be telepathic.

02:33:00.000 And that's inevitable.

02:33:02.000 That's in the word.

02:33:03.000 I mean, Elon said that to me.

02:33:04.000 He goes, you're going to be able to communicate with no words.

02:33:07.000 I was like, okay.

02:33:08.000 What does that mean?

02:33:10.000 What language is it going to be in?

02:33:10.000 What is that like?

02:33:12.000 Is it going to be in a new university?

02:33:13.000 It's kind of exciting.

02:33:14.000 It's very exciting.

02:33:16.000 Well, it's very weird.

02:33:17.000 It's both.

02:33:18.000 We're going to be different.

02:33:20.000 I just hope I'm around and experienced it.

02:33:22.000 You will be.

02:33:22.000 Yeah, it's going to happen fairly quickly.

02:33:25.000 I think it's going to happen within the next couple of decades.

02:33:28.000 The things are going to be unrecognizable.

02:33:32.000 If less than that.

02:33:33.000 Yeah.

02:33:34.000 I mean, that's just being like really charitable.

02:33:36.000 Yeah.

02:33:38.000 It's probably going to be five years.

02:33:39.000 I mean, you've talked to enough people that are on the front lines of it, and there is one sort of constant thing that it's sooner than you think.

02:33:39.000 Yeah.

02:33:46.000 And everyone on the front line is fucking terrible. 0.99

02:33:49.000 I know. 0.99

02:33:50.000 I know.

02:33:50.000 All of them.

02:33:51.000 Even the ones that are working towards it.

02:33:53.000 I know.

02:33:53.000 They're all like, that's true.

02:33:55.000 Like, I don't know if this is good. 1.00

02:33:56.000 Fuck a lot of doing it. 1.00

02:33:57.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:33:57.000 I know. 1.00

02:33:58.000 Yeah.

02:33:59.000 I know.

02:34:00.000 Strange stuff.

02:34:02.000 Hey, man, I'm glad we did this.

02:34:03.000 This is a lot of fun.

02:34:04.000 Joe.

02:34:05.000 You know, it's real quick.

02:34:07.000 It's just fun to see the progression of it.

02:34:08.000 It's like, I'm here.

02:34:09.000 And then, like the elephant man, by the end of it, I just see your eyes talking to me.

02:34:14.000 It's like I forgot the room and Jamie and the whole thing.

02:34:16.000 It's, I understand the gift.

02:34:19.000 Well, it's because we're locked in.

02:34:19.000 I get it.

02:34:20.000 Yeah, but I get it.

02:34:21.000 I see.

02:34:22.000 I get it.

02:34:22.000 Because I've, you know, I love watching you have guests on.

02:34:25.000 And then through the time, you just start to see things just start to shed off or it gets more awkward.

02:34:33.000 Or like the rhythm gets off.

02:34:34.000 And it's just so fascinating.

02:34:36.000 And so I was so honored to be able to be in like, you know, the seat and experience it.

02:34:43.000 Oh, it's my pleasure.

02:34:44.000 Yeah.

02:34:45.000 I'm honored to be able to talk to people like you and to be able to experience, you know, as you're talking, I'm experiencing life through your eyes.

02:34:53.000 I'm getting a better sense of what it is to be a person.

02:34:53.000 Yeah.

02:34:57.000 And it's just like these little thin layers, like you're building a mountain with one layer of pain at a time.

02:35:02.000 That's it.

02:35:03.000 Everything is that.

02:35:03.000 Yeah.

02:35:05.000 Everything is that.

02:35:05.000 Yeah.

02:35:06.000 Everything is that.

02:35:07.000 If you're living a good life.

02:35:07.000 Yeah.

02:35:09.000 Yeah.

02:35:10.000 And I think you're definitely living a good life.

02:35:12.000 Oh, thanks, man.

02:35:14.000 It's been a pleasure getting to know you, man. 0.99

02:35:16.000 You're cool as fuck. 0.99

02:35:16.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:35:17.000 Thanks, Joe.

02:35:17.000 My pleasure.

02:35:18.000 All right.

02:35:19.000 Everybody, is this thing on?

02:35:21.000 Is out now, right?

02:35:22.000 Yeah, opens wide tomorrow.

02:35:24.000 Tomorrow.

02:35:24.000 So today as today as this podcast comes out.

02:35:26.000 Correct.

02:35:27.000 And go check it out.

02:35:28.000 It's awesome.

02:35:29.000 Thanks, man.

02:35:30.000 Bradley, you're the man.

02:35:31.000 All right.

02:35:31.000 Thank you.

The Joe Rogan Experience - January 09, 2026

Joe Rogan Experience #2435 - Bradley Cooper

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