The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2438 - John Mellancamp

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

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00:00:14.000 Why would I hate my tattoos?

00:00:16.000 Because you get older and they get all smudgy.

00:00:19.000 Mine are getting kind of smudgy.

00:00:21.000 Yeah, well, look at this one.

00:00:24.000 It's pretty smudgy.

00:00:25.000 Pretty fucking smudgy.

00:00:28.000 I owned a tattoo parlor in what year it was, mid-80s, and they were illegal in Indiana.

00:00:38.000 But because it was me, they said, okay, leave him alone.

00:00:41.000 Really?

00:00:42.000 I remember when they were illegal in New York.

00:00:45.000 I went to Connecticut to get my first tattoo.

00:00:48.000 Yeah, I didn't know it was illegal, but I met this guy in L.A., and he worked at Sunset, you know, where the Hyatt house is, and there was a tattoo parlor right across the street.

00:01:02.000 Anyway, he was there.

00:01:04.000 And so I brought him to Bloomington because he wanted to get out of L.A.

00:01:10.000 And guess why they closed me down?

00:01:13.000 Why?

00:01:14.000 Fucking guy was a heroin addict.

00:01:18.000 I know.

00:01:20.000 And he did this tattoo one time, and I went over.

00:01:22.000 I just went over to the shop.

00:01:23.000 I said, hey, let's do this little.

00:01:25.000 And he was all fucked up.

00:01:28.000 And it was just like, what's wrong with it?

00:01:31.000 You know, because I didn't know.

00:01:32.000 I don't know anything about heroin addict.

00:01:35.000 There wasn't a lot of heroin addicts back then.

00:01:37.000 That was a rare thing.

00:01:39.000 Now, when you think about how many people are, because of the Sackler family, think of how many people are hooked on opiates today.

00:01:46.000 I mean, it's got to be lots.

00:01:48.000 It's off the charts in comparison to what it was like in, you know, the 1980s.

00:01:55.000 I knew one guy that had a friend who did heroin.

00:02:00.000 That's it.

00:02:01.000 Well, I was at a, the first time I saw somebody do heroin was I was in college, and there was a place called Bull Island that tried to imitate Woodstock.

00:02:15.000 And me and my then-wife and my kid, my little girl, and my roommate who lived with us, we're just walking down and we see this guy shooting up.

00:02:29.000 So we just thought, well, we'll watch.

00:02:33.000 Because he was just sitting right there.

00:02:35.000 I mean, there was like 200,000 people there.

00:02:39.000 And he shot and he went out.

00:02:44.000 And I looked at the guy I was with, go, we won't be doing this.

00:02:49.000 We're not going to do this.

00:02:52.000 I had a friend who was a longshoreman, and he worked with this guy every lunchtime.

00:02:57.000 He would go and score and sit in his truck and shoot up.

00:03:02.000 And that's what he did every lunch.

00:03:03.000 He was a functional heroin addict.

00:03:06.000 And he would show up for work every day, and he did his job.

00:03:11.000 But during lunchtime, during his hour, he would do heroin and just fucking find his happy place.

00:03:20.000 And then an hour later, go back to work.

00:03:24.000 And the one shop would last all day?

00:03:26.000 I don't know.

00:03:27.000 I don't know if he did heroin.

00:03:28.000 I didn't ask if he did heroin after that as well.

00:03:31.000 I'm assuming he probably did.

00:03:34.000 But he was a functional heroin addict.

00:03:36.000 Like, guy kept a full job.

00:03:38.000 He was in the union.

00:03:40.000 And everybody knew.

00:03:41.000 This guy would go on his break, shoot up.

00:03:46.000 Last time I did drugs was 1973.

00:03:53.000 What was the reason you stopped?

00:03:55.000 Right here?

00:03:56.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:03:58.000 Well, I used to like to smoke and drink whiskey.

00:04:06.000 And then I liked to fight.

00:04:08.000 Oh, that's a problem.

00:04:10.000 couldn't whip anybody but i loved the contact and the the rush of like you know starting the fight But so anyway, I was in college and my roommate and I went to this downtown bar, which we'd never been to.

00:04:34.000 And I sat at the bar, and I would start these fights.

00:04:37.000 You know, just a prick.

00:04:41.000 And I was sitting next to this big guy, and for whatever reason, I thought it was a good idea if I'd spit on him.

00:04:51.000 Oh.

00:04:52.000 One of those guys.

00:04:54.000 You know, you know those guys that get drunk?

00:04:56.000 Yeah.

00:04:57.000 Well, that was me.

00:05:00.000 So I did.

00:05:02.000 And we went out back and he left me in the alley like a wet rag.

00:05:10.000 I mean, he beat the shit out of me.

00:05:13.000 Beat the shit out of me.

00:05:14.000 And I was a hippie.

00:05:16.000 I had hair down to here.

00:05:19.000 And the guy, my roommate, was driving me home in an Opento.

00:05:25.000 And I was leaning on the door like this.

00:05:28.000 I was so fucked up from getting beat up.

00:05:30.000 I mean, the oars around my face were this big.

00:05:34.000 And I was leaning on the door.

00:05:35.000 And all of a sudden, he went over a road track.

00:05:38.000 And I fell out of the car, got my hair wrapped around the jig-a-flop that holds the car.

00:05:47.000 And the guy that I'm with drunk, driving, he didn't even know I fell out of the car.

00:05:54.000 And I'm going, stop the car.

00:05:56.000 Stop.

00:05:56.000 He went, oh!

00:06:00.000 And so I got up the next morning and I looked at myself and I was unrecognizable.

00:06:09.000 I had road rash on my arms.

00:06:11.000 My knees were all fucked up.

00:06:13.000 My face was beat up from the and I just said, you know, this drug and alcohol thing is not working for you.

00:06:22.000 And so I went and got all my hair cut off.

00:06:25.000 Not as short as yours, but not much longer.

00:06:28.000 And that was it.

00:06:31.000 Well, you found your rock bottom.

00:06:34.000 That's what they say.

00:06:34.000 Yeah.

00:06:35.000 They say you need to find rock bottom.

00:06:37.000 I would never imagine that you would be the type of guy that would fuck with people at a bar and spit on somebody and start a fight.

00:06:43.000 It just you just don't seem like that at all.

00:06:47.000 Well, I grew up in a small town and there was not much to do in a small town.

00:06:54.000 You know, you would either find a girl or fight. 0.94

00:07:00.000 I figured you for the find the girl type of guy. 0.93

00:07:03.000 Well, you know, I did okay with that, but it didn't always work.

00:07:10.000 So, yeah.

00:07:12.000 Yeah, it was like, don't forget, Joe, it was like 1967, 66.

00:07:20.000 You weren't even born yet.

00:07:21.000 I was born in 1967.

00:07:22.000 Yeah, so this is like 1967.

00:07:24.000 Wow.

00:07:25.000 So, you know.

00:07:28.000 So from that time on until I turned 21, I was 21 when I quit using drugs and quit smoking, quit drinking.

00:07:37.000 Wow.

00:07:38.000 Nothing since then?

00:07:39.000 Not a drop.

00:07:40.000 That's impressive.

00:07:41.000 Not a drop.

00:07:42.000 Well, you know, I think I've thought about I think that I didn't really like it that much.

00:07:48.000 You know, as much as I thought I did.

00:07:50.000 Well, you certainly didn't like the results.

00:07:52.000 Right.

00:07:53.000 One bad result.

00:07:54.000 Well, you set you straight.

00:07:57.000 Yeah, we do you and yeah.

00:08:00.000 You were a big part of my high school experience.

00:08:04.000 It was interesting because your song sort of introduced the idea of nostalgia to me.

00:08:13.000 I don't know what that meant.

00:08:14.000 Well, when you were singing songs like Jack and Diane, it's like I was kind of realizing as I was a very young guy listening to those great songs that there's going to be a, like, this is a weird time in life, and there's going to be a time where you're going to look back on this, and it's probably one of the best times of your life, but even though it doesn't feel like it, it felt, you know, it felt confusing and weird.

00:08:42.000 And I remember thinking at the time, like, my God, like, is this as good as it gets?

00:08:47.000 You know, some people look back on this weird, confusing time of adolescence as the happiest moments of their life.

00:08:55.000 I'm like, I can't wait to get the fuck out of this time of my life.

00:08:59.000 And it's like, you know, you were singing from a position of like an everyman position of, you know, you were singing the star.

00:09:11.000 They were great fucking songs.

00:09:13.000 They had heart and it was soul to them, but it was like, it was a lot of sadness, you know?

00:09:22.000 A lot of, oh yeah, life goes on long after the thrill of living is gone.

00:09:26.000 And I was like, oh, Jesus Christ, life's going to go this is it.

00:09:30.000 This is it.

00:09:31.000 This is it.

00:09:33.000 Well, listen, I struggled with that probably like you did, or he did.

00:09:42.000 You know, there's a point in a man's life where he feels like there's got to be more to life than this.

00:09:48.000 I mean, I had huge hit records and, you know, very, lucky, very lucky.

00:10:00.000 You know, everything was just, you know, I was just lucky.

00:10:04.000 And I would go home and I would think, I'm not happy.

00:10:11.000 There's got to be more to life than this.

00:10:14.000 And then guess what happened?

00:10:16.000 I got a little bit older and I found out there's not.

00:10:23.000 And I'm good at it.

00:10:25.000 I'm good at it.

00:10:27.000 So, you know, we're only on this earth for a few fucking minutes.

00:10:32.000 Quit feeling sorry for yourself and quit being confused and accept your responsibilities and try to, you know, maintain some humility, which was a million miles away from me spitting on people.

00:10:44.000 Right.

00:10:45.000 In a bar.

00:10:46.000 What didn't you enjoy about being this enormous rock star in the early days of MTV?

00:10:53.000 I mean, you were a rock star when it became a totally different thing because it was like this visual thing that was in everyone's household now.

00:11:00.000 It wasn't as simple as, no, you were on the tonight show and you would sing this musical segment and people would have to go see you live to go see you perform.

00:11:08.000 Well, I know you got to see guys in rock bands were their album covers.

00:11:14.000 You know, you would go to a record store and file through the records and if you liked the way a band looked, you would buy the record.

00:11:22.000 At least I would.

00:11:23.000 I would too.

00:11:24.000 And so I forgot the question.

00:11:29.000 Well, I was just saying, like, what was it, what was not good about that?

00:11:34.000 I mean, what was that experience like being this enormous rock star that left you feeling like you wanted more, that you weren't happy?

00:11:43.000 I think that for me, I think when that happens, it's the age you're at.

00:11:52.000 And I think it's a chemical imbalance in our brain.

00:11:57.000 And as we grow older, it kind of finds its way.

00:12:02.000 And like I said, I just woke up one day and just went, hey, this is all there is, except it.

00:12:10.000 And try to show some humility and try to be good at it.

00:12:15.000 And I never thought about it again.

00:12:17.000 That's interesting.

00:12:18.000 Well, you're a snap out of it type of guy, right?

00:12:21.000 You snapped out of drugs and alcohol.

00:12:23.000 You snapped out of feeling sorry for yourself.

00:12:26.000 Yeah.

00:12:26.000 That's a good trait to have.

00:12:28.000 Well, I'm very lucky that – listen, Joe.

00:12:31.000 You're looking at the luckiest fucking guy you've ever interviewed.

00:12:36.000 I don't give a shit who you've interviewed.

00:12:38.000 I'm the luckiest guy you know.

00:12:40.000 I was born with spina bifida.

00:12:43.000 Do you know what that is?

00:12:44.000 I don't.

00:12:46.000 That's where you have a hole in your spine and the fluid and all of your nerve endings, like on me.

00:13:02.000 Look at the back of my neck.

00:13:04.000 Oh, wow.

00:13:05.000 You see that scar.

00:13:06.000 Oh, that's crazy.

00:13:07.000 Yeah.

00:13:09.000 That scar is huge.

00:13:11.000 That's 1951.

00:13:13.000 In 1951, you got that operation?

00:13:16.000 I was born with, you're born with spina bifida.

00:13:20.000 So what do they do to, what was that operation exactly?

00:13:25.000 Well, they had to, well, here's the story.

00:13:29.000 I was, my parents are only 20 years older than me.

00:13:33.000 So I was born deformed.

00:13:39.000 And my parents didn't know what the fuck to do.

00:13:42.000 You know, what are we going to do with this kid?

00:13:44.000 So they just went like that to my grandmother here.

00:13:46.000 You take him.

00:13:48.000 And so I was in the hospital, and there were four other kids.

00:13:56.000 And there was a young doctor named Heinberger who was just a young neurosurgeon.

00:14:02.000 Don't forget, neurosurgery in 1951 was in its—so he just said, well, we've got to try to do something with these kids.

00:14:11.000 And so he operated on all of us.

00:14:19.000 I was the only one that lived.

00:14:21.000 Oh, boy.

00:14:23.000 You know, the fact that, and he charged my parents a dollar for the, you know, because it was an experiment.

00:14:31.000 I was like a guinea pig.

00:14:33.000 And these other poor kids who had the same thing I did, they all died within, you know, six months.

00:14:44.000 I remember seeing one girl that made it till she was 14 and she was in a wheelchair.

00:14:48.000 I would see her at basketball games and my parents would go, that's the other little girl that had the same operation you did.

00:14:56.000 And then she died.

00:14:59.000 So my whole life has been full of luck.

00:15:05.000 I mean, I'm not supposed to be.

00:15:09.000 What did they do during the operation?

00:15:11.000 What is the procedure?

00:15:13.000 Well, they have to cut your head off for starters. 0.99

00:15:18.000 You know, they had to cut my head and lay it open to get to my spine.

00:15:24.000 And then they would push each individual nerve ending back down into my spine, drain the fluid off, sew it back up, and make sure that everything was working.

00:15:41.000 And they told my parents, you know, look, here he is.

00:15:46.000 He's probably going to die, get encephalitis, and his head's going to fill up with water.

00:15:53.000 We don't anticipate him living much more than six or seven months.

00:16:00.000 And I was, fuck, I think I was in fifth grade.

00:16:05.000 I didn't even know I'd had the operation, and some kid in my class said, hey, Mallenkamp, what's that big scar on the back of your neck?

00:16:12.000 Don't forget.

00:16:13.000 Now we're talking, you know, 1957, 58, 60, maybe.

00:16:20.000 I didn't even know there was a scar back there.

00:16:23.000 You know.

00:16:24.000 Wow.

00:16:25.000 Went like I was going.

00:16:26.000 And my parents never told me.

00:16:29.000 So I came home and I asked my old man, I said, Dad, what's with the scar in the back of my neck?

00:16:33.000 And he goes, oh, don't worry about it.

00:16:35.000 You had an operation when you were born.

00:16:37.000 So I did it.

00:16:38.000 I played football.

00:16:39.000 I ran track.

00:16:41.000 I fought.

00:16:43.000 You know, I did everything that every other kid did without a thought of that.

00:16:48.000 Not until I got older and I started having panic disorder that I thought maybe the panic disorder was from that operation.

00:17:04.000 How old when you started having panic disorder?

00:17:07.000 I was just out of college.

00:17:09.000 I couldn't leave the house.

00:17:10.000 I became what they call, what's that called?

00:17:13.000 Agoraphobia?

00:17:14.000 Yeah.

00:17:15.000 Yeah.

00:17:16.000 So I had agoraphobia for about a year and a half.

00:17:19.000 And then I got a record deal and I had to leave the house.

00:17:23.000 I mean, I was married in high school.

00:17:26.000 I got married in high school.

00:17:28.000 And the girl I was married to was five years older than me.

00:17:31.000 How old were you?

00:17:33.000 18.

00:17:34.000 18?

00:17:35.000 You had a kid, right?

00:17:35.000 Yeah.

00:17:36.000 You had a kid real young.

00:17:38.000 She's 50-something now.

00:17:38.000 Yeah.

00:17:41.000 Wow.

00:17:42.000 I have three girls and two boys.

00:17:44.000 Weren't you a grandfather when you were in your 30s?

00:17:48.000 Maybe.

00:17:49.000 I think you were, right?

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00:17:50.000 Yeah.

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00:19:16.000 Because that oldest daughter of mine got married when she was like 19. 1.00

00:19:21.000 Wow.

00:19:22.000 Not much to do in a small town, man.

00:19:24.000 Yeah.

00:19:25.000 Not much to do.

00:19:27.000 So that's the spinam bifida.

00:19:31.000 But it never bothered you again other than the panic.

00:19:36.000 Were you performing when you were having the panic stuff?

00:19:38.000 Oh, man.

00:19:39.000 I have been on stage in front of like 20,000 people and had a panic attack.

00:19:45.000 Oui.

00:19:46.000 Yeah, it's like, have you ever had one?

00:19:48.000 No.

00:19:49.000 You're lucky.

00:19:52.000 Because you feel like I can't breathe.

00:19:57.000 My chest hurts.

00:20:01.000 I've seen it.

00:20:02.000 I've seen people have them.

00:20:04.000 It's horrific.

00:20:05.000 You can't do anything for them.

00:20:06.000 You're like, you think they're having a heart attack?

00:20:08.000 You think they're dying?

00:20:09.000 Yeah.

00:20:10.000 Well, I've been on stage and I remember having to plant my feet and just power through, you know, in front of 20,000 people.

00:20:19.000 And it was awful.

00:20:21.000 Did it pass while you were on stage?

00:20:24.000 I don't know if it did.

00:20:26.000 I just remember it happening numerous times.

00:20:28.000 And then guess what happened?

00:20:30.000 I had a fucking real heart attack on stage at Jones Beach, like 30 years later.

00:20:35.000 Oh, Jesus.

00:20:36.000 I know.

00:20:37.000 So, but you know what that heart attack led to?

00:20:42.000 I just married Elaine Erwin and we had two little boys and I got to stay home because I said, fuck it, I'm going to die.

00:20:52.000 I didn't know about heart disease.

00:20:54.000 I'm going to die.

00:20:55.000 So I want to spend the last couple years of my life with my boys who are little teeny guys, which I want to tell you a story about them and you.

00:21:07.000 And so I got to actually kind of not be in the music business, which pleased me.

00:21:19.000 How old were you when you had your heart attack?

00:21:20.000 42.

00:21:21.000 Oh, geez.

00:21:23.000 And so I got to stay home.

00:21:26.000 I stayed home for three and a half years.

00:21:28.000 Elaine didn't model. 1.00

00:21:29.000 And we just, you know, we had TV shows we watched, which is unheard of in my life.

00:21:36.000 You know, like, hey, it's Thursday night.

00:21:37.000 Let's watch.

00:21:38.000 Let's watch this, you know, which is where you come in.

00:21:43.000 So the boys were little, and they loved your show.

00:21:48.000 They loved your fucking show.

00:21:50.000 And I was kind of like, I don't know if the kids should be watching this, you know.

00:21:56.000 You're talking about Fear Factor?

00:21:57.000 Yeah.

00:21:58.000 Yeah, I don't know what the kids should be watching.

00:22:00.000 So I made a deal with them.

00:22:01.000 All right, you guys, you can watch this show, but you have to watch 60 Minutes too.

00:22:10.000 So if you're going to watch this, then you've got to watch 60 Minutes.

00:22:13.000 And they obliged, which surprised the hell out of me.

00:22:16.000 But it was like, Dad, 60 Minutes on.

00:22:19.000 Dad, Fear Factor's on.

00:22:22.000 I know.

00:22:23.000 So we would watch it together.

00:22:24.000 I mean, how lucky is that?

00:22:27.000 Well, it sounds like it was a blessing in disguise.

00:22:30.000 Yeah.

00:22:30.000 Well, that's.

00:22:31.000 Yeah.

00:22:31.000 It gave you a pause.

00:22:33.000 You know what luck is?

00:22:34.000 What?

00:22:35.000 Thinking you're lucky.

00:22:37.000 Thinking you're lucky.

00:22:39.000 Yeah.

00:22:39.000 What you think about yourself all comes true.

00:22:42.000 I wrote it in a song once.

00:22:44.000 What you think about yourself will come true.

00:22:47.000 So if you call yourself a dumbass, guess what?

00:22:51.000 You do it enough and your brain starts to believe in it.

00:22:56.000 What caused your heart attack at such a young age?

00:23:01.000 Me being stupid.

00:23:04.000 I would go in to get a physical and they'd go, John, your cholesterol is off the charts.

00:23:12.000 It's at 400.

00:23:14.000 And I would go, Am I all right now?

00:23:16.000 And they'd go, well, yeah, you're all right now.

00:23:18.000 Good.

00:23:18.000 Because I didn't want to get on medicine.

00:23:21.000 You know, and statin drugs had just become, just were invented.

00:23:27.000 You know, at that time, people started using statins and I didn't want to take them.

00:23:32.000 I didn't know what they were.

00:23:35.000 But I know all about heart disease now.

00:23:37.000 Did you have plaque?

00:23:38.000 Did you have arterial plaque?

00:23:40.000 Yeah.

00:23:42.000 And it runs in my family.

00:23:44.000 I have a sister that has, or she used to, I don't think she does anymore, but her cholesterol is a 500.

00:23:51.000 Imagine.

00:23:53.000 That's like, it's crazy.

00:23:56.000 Cholesterol is a very controversial subject now because people are starting to try to sort out what is the actual cause of heart disease.

00:24:04.000 And there's a lot of people that don't believe it is cholesterol.

00:24:07.000 They think it's arterial plaque.

00:24:09.000 And what is this stuff called?

00:24:12.000 Natokinesase?

00:24:14.000 I don't know how to pronounce it.

00:24:16.000 But there's a supplement, like an over-the-counter supplement that's supposed to be able to eliminate arterial plaque in a very profound way that they're just starting to realize.

00:24:29.000 I don't know.

00:24:30.000 It's clogging of it.

00:24:32.000 Listen, I was in New York once with a girl, and I went to the doctor with her.

00:24:41.000 She's an actress. 1.00

00:24:43.000 And she was getting a physical, and she wanted me to go, so I went with her.

00:24:48.000 And she went to the best doctor in New York City.

00:24:54.000 And I found myself alone with that doctor.

00:24:57.000 And I said, so the doctor in Bloomington just put me on metformin.

00:25:06.000 What's the side effects for metformin?

00:25:10.000 And this guy, Joe, is the guy.

00:25:13.000 He went, longevity.

00:25:15.000 And he said, if it was up to me, I'd put the entire United States on metformin and a statin because the fucking food we eat is terrible.

00:25:25.000 Yeah.

00:25:25.000 It's processed, it's this and that, you know.

00:25:28.000 And he just said, you know, the human body was not meant to eat this crap.

00:25:34.000 That's a fact.

00:25:35.000 Yeah.

00:25:36.000 I think the solution is probably eating food that you're meant to eat.

00:25:38.000 But metformin is one of those drugs that longevity doctors recommend.

00:25:44.000 I've never been on it, but I know quite a few people that have.

00:25:47.000 I think, isn't it a diabetes drug initially?

00:25:50.000 Yeah.

00:25:52.000 My mom died of diabetes.

00:25:56.000 I was always borderline and I'm still borderline and this was she get type 1 or type 2 Well, she started out with two, and then she paid no attention to it, wouldn't take her medicine. 0.84

00:26:08.000 We'd drive by Krispy Kreme, and she'd go, don't kill your dad. 0.92

00:26:13.000 Okay.

00:26:14.000 And she'd get a half a dozen Krispy Kremes and eat them.

00:26:17.000 And it's just like, that's where it's at.

00:26:21.000 It's the food.

00:26:22.000 It's a horrible thing that we've done to this country.

00:26:26.000 I mean, this is the most controversial thing about RFK Jr., I guess.

00:26:31.000 Or one of the most controversial things is the elimination of all the stuff that's already eliminated in a lot of European countries.

00:26:38.000 I had a friend come here from Europe who had not ever been in the United States and got sick just from eating.

00:26:46.000 Just eating our food.

00:26:47.000 It's crazy.

00:26:48.000 Just our bread.

00:26:50.000 What is that supplement?

00:26:53.000 How do I say it?

00:26:54.000 I think of how you were saying that.

00:26:56.000 Can you find out what it's supposed to do?

00:26:58.000 Because there's a recent study.

00:27:00.000 Okay.

00:27:00.000 There it is.

00:27:01.000 So natokinase supplementation can significantly reduce the size of existing arterial plaques and slow the progression of arteriosclerosis.

00:27:14.000 I never say that word.

00:27:16.000 Arthuriosclerosis.

00:27:19.000 No.

00:27:20.000 Atherosclerosis?

00:27:23.000 Particularly at higher doses.

00:27:23.000 Whatever.

00:27:26.000 Natokinase and arterial plaque reduction.

00:27:28.000 Multiple clinical trials provide evidence that natokinase, an enzyme derived from fermented Japanese food NATO, has a positive effect on arthuriosclerosis, hardening and narrowing of the arteries due to plaque buildup.

00:27:42.000 Yeah, so folks, go take that stuff.

00:27:44.000 High-dose supplement shrinks arterial plaque by 36%.

00:27:48.000 Very interesting stuff.

00:27:50.000 Yeah.

00:27:50.000 And it's a very common supplement.

00:27:52.000 It's an easy-to-get supplement, and it comes from fermented food.

00:27:57.000 Well, you know, if you, you know, I've watched a lot of things about the food that we eat.

00:28:05.000 And terrible.

00:28:07.000 Terrible.

00:28:08.000 Well, a bunch of monsters decided to make more money, and the way they make more money is to throw a bunch of preservatives and bullshit and stuff into food so that it keeps their shelf life as long as possible.

00:28:19.000 You've heard those stories about taking a hamburger that you would buy at a very popular store and just putting it in a box and leaving it for five years, and five years later, it's...

00:28:33.000 Oh, yeah.

00:28:34.000 Mike, some of my grandkids were at my house on Defuski, and they had an ice cream sandwich, and they only ate half of it.

00:28:49.000 And it sat there for three hours and did not melt.

00:28:52.000 Yeah, I've seen those.

00:28:54.000 Yeah, that's not ice cream.

00:28:56.000 That's not ice cream.

00:28:57.000 I don't know what the fuck's in there, but it's not regular ice cream.

00:29:00.000 The Burger King or the McDonald's hamburger thing is nuts.

00:29:04.000 Because what is the longest that that guy, there's one guy that's had one on a shelf at his house for, God, I want to say it's close to 20 years or something crazy like that.

00:29:16.000 It's just sitting there.

00:29:17.000 And you would think that he got it five hours ago.

00:29:20.000 Yeah.

00:29:21.000 And we're supposed to be eating that.

00:29:21.000 Yeah.

00:29:23.000 And for a lot of people, that's a big portion of their diet is fast food, which is just crazy.

00:29:23.000 Yeah.

00:29:28.000 You're just sucking down all these chemicals and preservatives.

00:29:31.000 Because if something cannot rot, can sit there and not rot.

00:29:35.000 A quarter pound of this 30 years old.

00:29:37.000 It's a quarter pound and it's 30 years old.

00:29:41.000 Wow.

00:29:42.000 That is insane.

00:29:45.000 That's insane.

00:29:45.000 Yeah.

00:29:46.000 That's craziness.

00:29:48.000 Wow.

00:29:51.000 Yeah, our food source, and I don't know about RFK Jr.

00:29:55.000 I, you know, I don't follow what he says or listen.

00:29:59.000 I try not to listen to much politics.

00:30:01.000 Good for you.

00:30:03.000 That's another good way to not have a heart attack.

00:30:05.000 Well, you know why?

00:30:06.000 Because it's all, you know, I was a hippie.

00:30:09.000 And I grew up thinking, you know, that anybody over 30 was the enemy.

00:30:15.000 Right.

00:30:16.000 And, you know, it's kind of like, I remember when Kennedy was shot, I asked my dad, I go, do you, you know, I was like a kid.

00:30:27.000 I go, do you really think one guy did it?

00:30:31.000 And he just looked at me and went, what do you think?

00:30:34.000 And that was his whole answer.

00:30:37.000 Wow.

00:30:37.000 Well, he knew it back then.

00:30:38.000 That's interesting.

00:30:40.000 Because it took a long, it took until Dick Gregory brought the Zapruder film on the Geraldo Rivera show, which was, I think it was 12 years after Kennedy's assassination, that people realized that he probably had gotten shot from the front.

00:30:56.000 Because his head went back into the left.

00:30:56.000 Yeah.

00:30:59.000 Yeah, and I've seen that.

00:31:02.000 And my dad was a young Democrat, you know, and so he was involved a lot with the Democratic Party back then.

00:31:18.000 And I'd ask him questions, and he never would really give me answers.

00:31:24.000 He would just give me looks.

00:31:30.000 And he knew the look.

00:31:32.000 It was just like, what do you think, John?

00:31:39.000 You really think somebody did that?

00:31:42.000 You know, figure it out for yourself.

00:31:44.000 Yeah, not much has changed.

00:31:47.000 And that's why I don't watch.

00:31:50.000 I don't, you know, I used to be very politically minded and cared about what politicians said.

00:31:58.000 I don't give a fuck what they say.

00:32:00.000 I don't trust any of them.

00:32:02.000 I don't like any of them.

00:32:03.000 Not that I don't like them.

00:32:05.000 Right.

00:32:06.000 It's just that I don't.

00:32:09.000 It's just hard to believe anything that anybody says because everybody's spinning everything in such a way that it's just like for their purposes.

00:32:19.000 You know, so, you know.

00:32:21.000 And unfortunately, we're more aware of it now than ever before.

00:32:24.000 There's less trust in politics now than there's ever been, and then there's more people talking about politics than there's ever been.

00:32:31.000 There's more polarization.

00:32:33.000 I mean, I don't know what it was like when you were a kid, but when I was a kid, there wasn't this polarization between people that were conservative and people that were liberal.

00:32:44.000 Like, you could hang out and talk to each other.

00:32:47.000 They didn't hate each other.

00:32:48.000 They just thought the other person was a fool for having a different opinion than them.

00:32:51.000 But there wasn't hate like there is today.

00:32:54.000 Well, here's the way you got to look at it.

00:32:58.000 This is that when you used to vote, you would go inside a place and they would shut the curtains and you would vote and that was your fucking business.

00:33:09.000 It's nobody else's business.

00:33:12.000 So like, you know, it's like, you know, I'm for anybody that's doing good.

00:33:18.000 If you're doing good and you're not hurting somebody, go, man.

00:33:23.000 But, you know, I'm not for cheating and, you know, how about a little morality and integrity and what you're saying and doing?

00:33:37.000 No, it would be nice.

00:33:38.000 It would be nice.

00:33:39.000 Well, it's never been that way.

00:33:41.000 No, never.

00:33:42.000 It's never been that way.

00:33:44.000 I mean, in the 60s, when I was a hippie, I mean, people think that this is like really bad.

00:33:58.000 No, it was really bad when fucking Russia had missiles in Cuba, and it was really bad when kids with long hair were getting shot at Kent State.

00:34:10.000 I mean, it was really the separation of adults and kids.

00:34:16.000 You know, there was a change that was happening.

00:34:20.000 And, of course, the change happened.

00:34:24.000 And all my generation did was get to wear blue jeans to work. 0.93

00:34:28.000 That was about it.

00:34:29.000 That's about all we accomplished.

00:34:31.000 Well, the change was because it was the first generation that realized that the war that they were being sold was bullshit.

00:34:37.000 You know, the people that were involved in World War I, World War II, they thought they were stopping the world from an evil dictator taking over and just ruining the world.

00:34:37.000 Yeah.

00:34:49.000 That's what we were.

00:34:50.000 In World War II, the United States was fighting Hitler.

00:34:54.000 You can't get a more evil person that's leading an army that you want to fight against than that guy, right?

00:35:02.000 So everybody felt like that was a just war.

00:35:05.000 Came back from that war victorious.

00:35:07.000 America had national pride.

00:35:08.000 We did it.

00:35:09.000 We're the good guys.

00:35:10.000 And then all of a sudden we're in Vietnam.

00:35:12.000 Like, what the fuck are we doing in Vietnam?

00:35:14.000 It didn't make any sense.

00:35:15.000 Back up, Joe.

00:35:17.000 What do you think the Civil War was fought about?

00:35:20.000 The Civil War?

00:35:21.000 Yeah.

00:35:22.000 Well, slavery was a big one.

00:35:24.000 No.

00:35:25.000 No?

00:35:25.000 Ports.

00:35:27.000 Ports.

00:35:28.000 They fought.

00:35:28.000 It was fought over ports.

00:35:30.000 The port in Savannah, Georgia was the biggest port in America.

00:35:35.000 And the ports in Boston, New York were struggling.

00:35:40.000 And the North said, Hey, why don't you guys send some of that our way?

00:35:46.000 You guys got more than you can handle.

00:35:48.000 And they said, Fuck you, no.

00:35:51.000 No, we're not sending you any of our stuff.

00:35:54.000 And they just kind of went, Well, then fuck you.

00:35:57.000 We're going to come down and take it.

00:36:00.000 But how are we going to get the American people to get behind that?

00:36:05.000 Slaves will say it's to free the slaves.

00:36:10.000 Really?

00:36:11.000 Yeah, I have a house in the South.

00:36:15.000 And that's what it was about.

00:36:20.000 It was about the ports.

00:36:22.000 Slavery was just an excuse because nobody cared about black people. 0.74

00:36:26.000 North or South.

00:36:27.000 Wow.

00:36:28.000 So you think that if they had just spread the wealth a little bit, that that would not have happened and slavery would have still continued?

00:36:35.000 Don't you think that?

00:36:36.000 I mean, there was already a distaste of slavery because it wasn't ubiquitous in the North.

00:36:43.000 But it was.

00:36:44.000 In the North it was?

00:36:45.000 Yeah.

00:36:45.000 I mean, Lincoln had slaves.

00:36:48.000 Right, back then, but not in the 1860s when they were fighting the Civil War.

00:36:55.000 He was president.

00:36:58.000 Really?

00:36:59.000 Does he had slaves when he was fighting in the war?

00:37:02.000 I wasn't aware of that.

00:37:02.000 Yeah.

00:37:04.000 Yeah, a lot of people in the North show, you know, they hadn't spun it to be so cruel as the South was, apparently.

00:37:15.000 Well, there was more in the South, right?

00:37:17.000 Because of plantations.

00:37:20.000 So here it is.

00:37:21.000 Abraham Lincoln never personally owned slaves.

00:37:23.000 This is according to Perplexity, which is our AI sponsor, which is always very accurate.

00:37:31.000 Either before or during his presidency, according to mainstream historical scholarship, claims that he had slaves through inheritance or marriage come from fringe or highly disputed sources and are not accepted by most professional historians.

00:37:44.000 That's me.

00:37:47.000 Lincoln was born in Kentucky, raised in Indiana and Illinois, all as a non-slave owner, working as a laborer, a lawyer, and a politician.

00:37:55.000 He was a really good wrestler, too.

00:37:59.000 Being related to slaveholders did not legally make those enslaved people his property.

00:38:04.000 And the best documented homes Lincoln himself maintained in Illinois and Washington employed free servants, not slaves.

00:38:13.000 Okay, where the idea of the people who are.

00:38:14.000 Let me stop for a second.

00:38:16.000 You can call it what you want.

00:38:18.000 Free servants, call it what you want. 1.00

00:38:21.000 Well, they were free, and they were getting paid.

00:38:24.000 It's like you said, you had a housekeeper.

00:38:26.000 It was still a minstrel show, no matter how you got it.

00:38:29.000 Okay.

00:38:30.000 Some modern writers and websites argue Lincoln inherited or ordered.

00:38:34.000 This is where the idea Lincoln had slaves came from.

00:38:37.000 Websites argued Lincoln inherited or ordered the sale of slaves via the Todd estate, but these claims hinge on a small number of contested documents and are rejected by most specialists in Lincoln studies.

00:38:51.000 There you go.

00:38:52.000 Well, it's interesting that the fact that we're even talking about it.

00:38:58.000 Well, it's kind of crazy how recent it was.

00:39:00.000 That's what's really crazy.

00:39:01.000 Oh, yeah, it wasn't that long ago.

00:39:03.000 Two people ago.

00:39:04.000 You know, people live to be 100.

00:39:06.000 Yeah.

00:39:06.000 1865 is roughly two people ago.

00:39:08.000 Yeah.

00:39:09.000 That's fucking crazy.

00:39:10.000 Well, I know.

00:39:11.000 I bet you when you were in school, you thought World War II was ancient history.

00:39:15.000 Oh, yeah, which is nuts because I was in high school in the 80s, right?

00:39:19.000 So World War II ended in 1945, which is nuts.

00:39:22.000 I thought it was ancient history.

00:39:22.000 Yeah.

00:39:24.000 I remember sitting in history class in eighth grade going, What do I need to know this shit for?

00:39:31.000 Know and I was born in 1951 so it was only like three or four years and the war ha had just ended.

00:39:38.000 That's nuts.

00:39:40.000 But to me, it was ancient history.

00:39:42.000 Isn't that crazy?

00:39:43.000 Because essentially what we're talking about now is like the 1980s.

00:39:49.000 Yeah.

00:39:49.000 Well that that to us, the 1980s, like to kids today, that must be like, oh my god, fucking dinosaur days.

00:39:56.000 No internet, fucking big old tube TVs.

00:39:59.000 It was a giant box.

00:40:01.000 A big one was 14 inches.

00:40:03.000 Yeah.

00:40:05.000 I remember being at home once and I told my dad, I said, hey, dad, the people down the street have got like a changer and it's got a cord on it.

00:40:18.000 And he goes, I got a changer too. 0.99

00:40:21.000 Change it to channel four.

00:40:23.000 I was a changer.

00:40:26.000 Yeah, I remember we used to have a pliers because the thing got scripped.

00:40:31.000 So you had to change the channel with the plier.

00:40:33.000 You didn't know what channel it was until like, oh, it's CBS.

00:40:35.000 All right, so we're on five.

00:40:37.000 Go like this.

00:40:38.000 Then you're on ABC, go like that.

00:40:40.000 You're on NBC.

00:40:41.000 Yeah.

00:40:42.000 I remember the day cable came out.

00:40:44.000 I was like, this is fucking bananas.

00:40:47.000 Look at all these channels.

00:40:49.000 Well, I remember seeing a home box office at the time.

00:40:54.000 It was like, what on earth?

00:40:56.000 I even remember what movie it was.

00:40:58.000 It was some The Miracle Man or something.

00:41:02.000 I thought, what is this?

00:41:03.000 It's past 11 o'clock and this movie's just starting.

00:41:09.000 Yeah.

00:41:10.000 Do you remember in the old days when the TV would sign off and the American flag would wave and it would just play music and then it would just go and then well the Indian would always show up. 1.00

00:41:21.000 Yeah.

00:41:21.000 The Indian would always show up and it had like this.

00:41:27.000 Yep.

00:41:28.000 And then it would go to nothing.

00:41:29.000 They would stop broadcasting at night.

00:41:30.000 Yeah, 11.

00:41:32.000 Yeah.

00:41:32.000 11.

00:41:33.000 Those were wild times.

00:41:34.000 Cable changed everything.

00:41:36.000 Home box office changed everything because when HBO came around, all of a sudden you got to see stand-up comedy uncensored.

00:41:44.000 I remember the first time I watched Sam Kinnison on HBO, I was like, this is fucking crazy.

00:41:51.000 Like I had never seen anything like that before.

00:41:54.000 Like wild, raw comedy.

00:41:56.000 You ever know Sam Kinnison?

00:41:57.000 No, I never met him.

00:41:59.000 I did.

00:41:59.000 What was he like?

00:42:00.000 Wild.

00:42:01.000 Yeah, I would imagine.

00:42:03.000 He was very unpredictable, very, you know, he was Sam Kinnison.

00:42:10.000 You know his story, how he became that way?

00:42:12.000 Got hit by a truck when he was a little kid.

00:42:12.000 No.

00:42:15.000 He was real normal.

00:42:17.000 Like a normal kid.

00:42:18.000 His brother Bill wrote about it.

00:42:20.000 His brother Bill wrote a great book called My Brother Sam.

00:42:23.000 And he said that Sam was just a normal kid, got hit by a truck, got really fucked up, bad brain injury.

00:42:31.000 And then from then on, wild and reckless.

00:42:34.000 Just like impossible to control, just a maniac.

00:42:37.000 Well, you could imagine.

00:42:38.000 I mean, you know, that's, I don't know about you, but if you grew up in the 80s, you know, our parents used to just tell us, go outside.

00:42:49.000 Yep.

00:42:49.000 Yeah.

00:42:50.000 Go outside and we'll see you at dark.

00:42:52.000 Yep.

00:42:53.000 And, you know, I could go, I was, I don't know, 10, 9, riding my bike all over Seymour.

00:43:02.000 Yep.

00:43:02.000 Which is where I grew up.

00:43:04.000 And just, nobody kept an eye on us.

00:43:07.000 No.

00:43:08.000 Nobody, you know.

00:43:09.000 And nobody had any idea of knowing where you are either.

00:43:12.000 It was just your responsibility to come home.

00:43:14.000 There was no way to find you.

00:43:16.000 It was funny.

00:43:17.000 They had to remind us that remind our parents that you have kids.

00:43:24.000 There was a thing that said, it's 10 o'clock.

00:43:26.000 Do you know where your children are?

00:43:28.000 Yeah, because a lot of people didn't.

00:43:30.000 They didn't.

00:43:31.000 And people would yell.

00:43:32.000 They would open up the window and yell their kid's name.

00:43:34.000 Billy!

00:43:36.000 And you just hear it in the neighborhood, someone like rolling down their window, rolling up their window and just screaming out the kid's name to tell them to come home.

00:43:44.000 Hoping the kid was an earshot.

00:43:45.000 I remember somebody in my neighborhood, I would hear every night at dark, Henry Earl!

00:43:55.000 And I'd hear it and go, I better go home.

00:43:59.000 If it's time for Henry Earl to go home, I better get home.

00:44:02.000 What was it like when MTV rolled around?

00:44:07.000 I didn't, I mean, I liked it.

00:44:11.000 How long had you been performing by then?

00:44:13.000 Oh, I was in my first band when I was 11.

00:44:17.000 Wow.

00:44:19.000 You know, a little garage band with a bunch of kids playing along with records.

00:44:24.000 And then I was in a band called The Crepe Soul.

00:44:29.000 Think about this, Joe.

00:44:31.000 I was 14 years old playing in bars.

00:44:35.000 Wow.

00:44:36.000 And my parents were cool with it.

00:44:40.000 It's like, where's John?

00:44:41.000 He's playing tonight.

00:44:43.000 Playing what?

00:44:45.000 He's in the Crepe Soul.

00:44:47.000 Oh.

00:44:48.000 And it was me and this black kid named Fred Booker.

00:44:53.000 And we shared the vocals.

00:44:55.000 And we would do, you know, we would do songs like Pool Strings and I'll Kiss Your Lips.

00:45:02.000 I'm your puppet.

00:45:04.000 I'm your puppet.

00:45:06.000 And we had, you know, neighbor jackets on.

00:45:09.000 And I was cute back then.

00:45:11.000 And so, you know, it was great for me.

00:45:14.000 I would have done it for free because I was 14 years old making out with 18, 19-year-old girls.

00:45:21.000 Wow.

00:45:22.000 It was great.

00:45:22.000 I know.

00:45:23.000 Are you kidding me?

00:45:24.000 And then we played at every fraternity, every sorority.

00:45:31.000 And I came home with maybe, you know, over the weekend I might make 60 bucks.

00:45:37.000 I was the best-dressed kid in school.

00:45:40.000 Wow.

00:45:40.000 That Mallencamp kid is just a dressed-up hood.

00:45:43.000 That's all he is.

00:45:46.000 So did you know back then that you were going to be a professional musician or were you doing it for fun?

00:45:51.000 Did you think it was going to be a career?

00:45:54.000 I thought, here's what I thought.

00:45:56.000 I'm either going to be a professional football player, a professional boxer, or a singer.

00:46:02.000 That was my choice.

00:46:03.000 You boxed?

00:46:04.000 Yeah.

00:46:05.000 Yeah?

00:46:06.000 I'll whip your ass right now. 1.00

00:46:11.000 At 74.

00:46:13.000 Is that why you were getting in so many fights?

00:46:15.000 Yeah, I liked it.

00:46:16.000 Wow.

00:46:17.000 I liked it.

00:46:18.000 I liked the contact.

00:46:20.000 I didn't like getting whipped every goddamn night, but, you know, it happens.

00:46:24.000 Did you have any professional boxing matches?

00:46:28.000 No, but my son, I'm going to brag on my son, was National Golden Gloves champ twice.

00:46:34.000 Wow.

00:46:35.000 And then he played football for Duke.

00:46:38.000 And he was, you don't want to mess with HUD.

00:46:43.000 Don't want to mess with HUD.

00:46:45.000 And so he's 31 now.

00:46:47.000 When did the music thing really start taking off for you?

00:46:52.000 Well, I went to college and I got a degree in broadcasting technology, which at that time was pretty.

00:47:03.000 And they would have dances at college and bands playing.

00:47:10.000 And I would sit there in the audience and go, I can do this better than that.

00:47:15.000 I know I can.

00:47:17.000 And so as soon as I got out of college, I got into a band called the Mason Brothers, which I have, I have so many funny stories.

00:47:27.000 Like I said, I'm so lucky.

00:47:30.000 I got into a band called the Mason Brothers, and we played every weekend, and I was a barroom singer.

00:47:37.000 You know, I never wrote any songs or anything like that.

00:47:41.000 You want to hear a funny story about the Mason Brothers, how the Mason Brothers ended?

00:47:45.000 Yeah.

00:47:47.000 This is good.

00:47:49.000 The guy that ran the band, I was just a singer.

00:47:52.000 And the guy that ran the band was a guy named Dave.

00:47:55.000 And Dave talked to the booker.

00:48:00.000 And we had a gig on a riverboat up and down the Ohio River.

00:48:05.000 And it was a fraternity show.

00:48:09.000 And we had an old Plymouth and a U-Haul on the back.

00:48:16.000 And we get there, and the guys in the fraternity show are so fucking mad at us.

00:48:22.000 Dave failed to realize that there was a time change between Seymour and Cincinnati, which is on the Ohio River.

00:48:31.000 So all these fraternity guys are going, Where the hell are you guys been?

00:48:35.000 You're an hour late.

00:48:38.000 So it really pissed me off.

00:48:40.000 I go, Dave, goddammit, if you're going to run the band, you've got to keep track of this shit.

00:48:45.000 He said, oh, don't worry about it.

00:48:46.000 And as time went on, and so as, and you had to do four sets back then, you know, four 45-minute sets, which was plenty of time for Dave to get drunk.

00:49:07.000 And he would drink, and he was the bass player.

00:49:12.000 And the fraternity guys already hated us, you know, because we weren't really any good anyway.

00:49:19.000 So Dave's playing, and it's going along really good.

00:49:23.000 And he was putting on a show and he leaned back and man overboard.

00:49:29.000 He fucking fell off the ship and they had to stop fishing.

00:49:33.000 Oh my God.

00:49:35.000 So I got so fucking mad at him that he said, I said, Dave, I'm going to quit.

00:49:41.000 This is it for me.

00:49:43.000 I'm done with this crap.

00:49:47.000 And then Dave said, no, John, give us one more chance.

00:49:50.000 And then the drummer quit because he went to medical school.

00:49:55.000 And then the guitar player was still in high school.

00:50:00.000 And he was my mom and dad's paper boy.

00:50:00.000 Wow.

00:50:04.000 And so Dave said, John, let me put the band back together.

00:50:10.000 I'll get some new guys.

00:50:13.000 And I'd call him up and I'd go, Dave, how's the band going?

00:50:17.000 And he'd go, oh, it's going great, man.

00:50:19.000 It's going really great.

00:50:21.000 I said, good.

00:50:22.000 I said, who are these new guys?

00:50:23.000 He goes, you'll see when you get there.

00:50:26.000 Don't worry about it.

00:50:27.000 I said, oh, you mean like you did with the time change?

00:50:27.000 I got it covered.

00:50:31.000 And he goes, no, no, no.

00:50:32.000 These guys are good.

00:50:34.000 So I show up for this gig.

00:50:37.000 I haven't even rehearsed with these guys.

00:50:39.000 Not even rehearsed with them.

00:50:41.000 But it was the same shit, you know, because we were just a cover band and I was just a barroom singer.

00:50:47.000 So, you know, if you want to see taking care of business, I'm your guy, you know, and take care of business.

00:50:56.000 You know, who can't do that?

00:50:57.000 So I show up.

00:51:00.000 Dave has recruited two sophomores in high school who couldn't play their instruments at all.

00:51:09.000 The drummer was like, pre-parent, prepare.

00:51:11.000 It's like, boom, boom, crack, asshole.

00:51:15.000 Boom, boom, crack.

00:51:17.000 That's all you got to do.

00:51:18.000 And he was the whole fucking time.

00:51:22.000 And so the show was about half over.

00:51:24.000 Just said.

00:51:25.000 I looked at Dave and I go, you're the lead singer, and I just left because it was just too embarrassing.

00:51:32.000 And then I got, I went, I went to New York and I was afraid Joe, I was afraid.

00:51:44.000 I mean, I'm from a fucking town of 18,000 people and I'd been to Chicago once.

00:51:48.000 I'd never been on an airplane.

00:51:52.000 And so I flew to New York because I came into some money.

00:51:57.000 That's another funny story.

00:51:59.000 I came into some money and I went there and I was afraid to come out of my hotel room for the first two days because New York in the early 70s was broke and there were prostitutes and pimps and everything everywhere you know, and homeless people, which reminds me you guys got a lot of homeless guys here.

00:52:24.000 There's a few.

00:52:25.000 It's not as bad as LA.

00:52:27.000 Well, that isn't.

00:52:28.000 You can say that about anything Joe, that's true.

00:52:31.000 Yeah, it's a lot better than it was during the pandemic.

00:52:34.000 During the pandemic they allowed them to do the camping on the street thing.

00:52:38.000 So you'd go down like Cesar Chavez and you'd see like 15, 20 tents where people were just hanging out and people were trying to jog and ride their bikes past them.

00:52:48.000 It was, it was pretty bad, but uh, former former mayor uh cleaned it up and they have pretty good programs here to get people into housing.

00:52:59.000 Everybody here, everybody here must love uh, and i'm not putting Austin down, i'm just I have.

00:53:06.000 You know, I was, I played here about three years ago uh, but everybody must love graffiti here and that's the thing about graffiti.

00:53:16.000 I I don't mind if you want to destroy somebody else's property, but at least do something original, because it all looks the same.

00:53:28.000 You know, it's big letters and outlined, and it's done in black and outlined in yellow and it's.

00:53:34.000 It's the same fucking shit.

00:53:35.000 You see in New York or Los Angeles, the same right.

00:53:38.000 If you're gonna, if you're gonna be a an artist, be an artist.

00:53:43.000 Well, a lot of these guys are just tagging.

00:53:45.000 They're just like sister gang, affiliation or whatever it is.

00:53:50.000 I guess I don't know.

00:53:52.000 Yeah, but it wasn't that way first time I came to Austin.

00:53:55.000 No, it's.

00:53:56.000 Well, I think all cities have deteriorated, but I think Austin's deteriorated quite a bit less.

00:54:02.000 We found out recently that skid row in L A is 50 blocks, 5-0 right now.

00:54:08.000 Right now, 50 blocks of homeless people just living on the streets and like almost impassable, like if you've ever been down Skid Row.

00:54:19.000 It's fucking.

00:54:19.000 I went there once accidentally and this was in the 2000s.

00:54:23.000 We were filming Fear Factor downtown in LA and I took a wrong turn and wound up in Skid Row and I was like I couldn't believe it was real, like it was like a zombie movie and that's.

00:54:35.000 I mean, it's a fraction.

00:54:37.000 So you decided on Fear Factor, you go stay in here for three days and you win three days and do no coke yeah, you could do three days with no meth and you win.

00:54:48.000 Yeah yeah, it was uh, it was sobering.

00:54:51.000 And then we looked up the history of uh skid row and the reason why it's like that is they would take people out of Hollywood and Beverly Hills and homeless people then, and they would put them in Skid Row and force them to stay there and they they sort of built it as a place where they could deposit vagrants and homeless people.

00:55:13.000 Well, there is a law in this country called vagrancy.

00:55:18.000 Yeah, not very enforced.

00:55:20.000 Well, it would be let me tell you something.

00:55:24.000 If you grew up in Seymour, Indiana, it was enforceable.

00:55:27.000 Right.

00:55:27.000 Because if you stand up town too long, which is all kids did back then, the cops come up and go, hey, you've been here for three hours.

00:55:36.000 We've been timing you.

00:55:37.000 This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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00:56:47.000 That's better H-E-L-P dot com slash J-R-E. 0.84

00:56:52.000 Yeah.

00:56:53.000 You want to keep a nice clean town.

00:56:53.000 Move on.

00:56:55.000 That's how you do it.

00:56:56.000 But if you let it go long enough, it will be like Skid Row.

00:56:59.000 I mean, and I think that what we're saying, like the documentary, what was the hotel again that won the Hotel Cecil.

00:57:07.000 The documentary was about the Hotel Cecil, which was a beautiful hotel in downtown L.A. that's now a fucking disaster area.

00:57:14.000 But it's in that whole area.

00:57:15.000 And they just, they couldn't figure out a way to deal with the homeless problem, but they didn't want it messing up the beauty and glamour of Hollywood.

00:57:25.000 So every time they would find homeless people, they would just ship them to downtown.

00:57:29.000 Downtown L.A. is really the only downtown of any major city that I've ever been to where nobody wants to go.

00:57:36.000 Downtown New York is fucking downtown.

00:57:38.000 Like, holy shit, we're downtown.

00:57:40.000 Look at all the restaurants.

00:57:41.000 Look at all the shops.

00:57:42.000 But it wasn't that way in the 70s.

00:57:43.000 The first time I went there, it was just like...

00:57:46.000 Yeah.

00:57:47.000 If you went to Times Square, it was frightening.

00:57:49.000 The first time I went to New York was to fight.

00:57:53.000 I was fighting in a martial arts tournament in 1980.

00:57:58.000 Oh, it had to be, I guess it was 85 or 86.

00:58:01.000 And it was bad.

00:58:03.000 We went through Times Square.

00:58:05.000 And I was like, oh, my God.

00:58:07.000 I couldn't believe people lived like this.

00:58:08.000 I remember the first time driving through it, I couldn't believe how big it was.

00:58:11.000 I was like, this is crazy.

00:58:13.000 It was so, because Boston, where I was from, was, you know, the big city, I thought.

00:58:19.000 It was nothing compared to New York.

00:58:21.000 I'm like, this is nuts.

00:58:22.000 I couldn't believe how many streets there were and how many buildings there were and how tall they were.

00:58:27.000 But just the seediness of it was so strange to me.

00:58:32.000 You know, the peep shows and all the weird people.

00:58:34.000 And I was a kid back then.

00:58:36.000 I was probably, you know, 18.

00:58:38.000 It was very strange.

00:58:39.000 It was frightening.

00:58:40.000 Yeah.

00:58:41.000 Like I was, I don't know, I probably got sidetracked, but the first time I went there, I didn't leave my hotel room.

00:58:47.000 I was at a holiday inn on 57th Street, and I just kind of peeked through the curtains and looked, and I was like, I can't go out there.

00:58:56.000 I mean, I was, you know, coming off agoraphobia.

00:59:02.000 And here I'm in New York because I have a meeting with some record company people, and, you know, they like to demo.

00:59:11.000 So let's go back to that.

00:59:12.000 So you were your fucked up drunk friend, you quit him.

00:59:17.000 How do you get back into music after that?

00:59:19.000 Oh, Dave?

00:59:20.000 Yeah.

00:59:21.000 No, I got my first record deal.

00:59:24.000 The first guy I called was Dave.

00:59:29.000 No, he was a great bass player.

00:59:31.000 He was a great bass player.

00:59:32.000 Did he get his shit together before then?

00:59:33.000 No.

00:59:34.000 Nope.

00:59:34.000 Still not?

00:59:35.000 No, no.

00:59:36.000 I got funny stories about Dave and Max's case.

00:59:39.000 Is he still around?

00:59:41.000 Yeah, he's a professor now.

00:59:42.000 He found God and all this stuff.

00:59:44.000 He's a professor at Vince Edge University, and he teaches.

00:59:47.000 He's a professor.

00:59:48.000 Wow.

00:59:49.000 What does he teach?

00:59:50.000 Music.

00:59:51.000 Oh, wow.

00:59:53.000 And no, he was really a handsome, really good bass player.

00:59:58.000 Really, really, really, really good.

01:00:00.000 But he just, you know, Dave, we were 20 years old, 22 years old.

01:00:10.000 You know, what the fuck did we know about anything?

01:00:13.000 Yeah.

01:00:14.000 Nothing.

01:00:15.000 Nothing.

01:00:17.000 So when you left Dave and you left that band, what happened next?

01:00:20.000 What was like the big break for you?

01:00:25.000 I never really had a big break.

01:00:27.000 Well, something must have happened.

01:00:29.000 It was a slow climb.

01:00:31.000 Yeah?

01:00:32.000 It was a very slow climb.

01:00:33.000 Yeah, I got a record deal.

01:00:40.000 And of course, being me at that age, at 22, I went out to California and I met with a guy named Mike Maitland, who hated my new record but said I had great possibilities.

01:00:56.000 And I told him, I just stood up and I said, motherfucker, you're an old man. 1.00

01:01:06.000 What do you know about rock music?

01:01:09.000 He must have been 40.

01:01:14.000 And of course I got dropped immediately.

01:01:15.000 I was on MCA and I got dropped immediately.

01:01:19.000 But there were a couple people at MCA who believed in what I was doing.

01:01:24.000 And so they helped me along.

01:01:26.000 And then I got introduced to Rod Stewart's manager.

01:01:33.000 And I moved to England for two years, made a record and, you know, lived with the whole band on Chelsea, in Chelsea.

01:01:47.000 And punk was just starting.

01:01:51.000 Just starting.

01:01:52.000 I mean, you know, the Clash and the Sex Pistols.

01:01:56.000 I mean, they were brand new bands.

01:01:58.000 Wow.

01:01:59.000 And there I am with an acoustic guitar going, I need a lover.

01:02:07.000 However, that song became number one in Australia.

01:02:13.000 And so Australia was ahead of us with televising rock bands.

01:02:23.000 And they had a whole bunch of rock shows.

01:02:25.000 And I had the number one record, album, and single in Australia and couldn't fill up a bar in Bloomington.

01:02:34.000 Wow.

01:02:35.000 Couldn't, nobody'd come and see me.

01:02:37.000 So anyway, I went to Australia.

01:02:40.000 And then a girl covered I Need a Lover and she had a big hit with it. 1.00

01:02:45.000 I mean, mine was like, went to like 30 or something like that.

01:02:50.000 But hers went to like two of that song. 0.93

01:02:54.000 And that's how it all started for me.

01:02:56.000 That was the very first thing.

01:02:59.000 With some girl covering on one of my songs.

01:02:59.000 Wow.

01:03:02.000 And you were living in England?

01:03:04.000 I lived in England for two years.

01:03:09.000 And they had the National Front there at the time.

01:03:15.000 I don't know if you know what that is.

01:03:17.000 The National Front was, if you're not English, get out of our country.

01:03:23.000 And a couple, my couple guys in my band got beat up because they heard, you know, some of the National Front guys heard their accent, and it wasn't English.

01:03:35.000 So it was like dangerous to even go to the movies.

01:03:39.000 Keep your fucking mouth shut and your head down.

01:03:41.000 What year was this around?

01:03:43.000 70s?

01:03:44.000 77, 76, 77.

01:03:48.000 Wow.

01:03:49.000 Yeah, the National Front was, you know, they were like all a bunch of skinhead guys and violent and did not want any foreigners in their country at all.

01:03:49.000 Yeah.

01:04:04.000 And even Americans, you know.

01:04:07.000 So, yeah, you had to keep it.

01:04:09.000 You know, I learned real quick to keep your head down, your mouth shut.

01:04:13.000 Wow.

01:04:14.000 And so you got out of there because of that?

01:04:16.000 No, I got out of there because I got mad at the...

01:04:19.000 I know it's hard to believe that I got mad at somebody, but I got mad at the manager because I never could get the cocksucker on the phone, you know. 1.00

01:04:29.000 And then I came back to the United States, and he had a record deal based on the number one record in Australia.

01:04:38.000 And I used to go, well, we have a number one record in Australia.

01:04:42.000 And they would look at me and go, not many Australians in the United States, John.

01:04:50.000 So, you know, and then it just kind of built.

01:04:54.000 But see what happened.

01:04:56.000 And I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I didn't give a fuck.

01:05:05.000 I got to the point where it was like, I don't give a fuck.

01:05:09.000 You know, do what the fuck you want.

01:05:11.000 Because I didn't want to be Johnny Cougar, which is how they made me start.

01:05:16.000 Whose idea was that to turn you into John Cougar?

01:05:19.000 It was Johnny to start off with.

01:05:21.000 Johnny Cougar.

01:05:21.000 Tony DeFries managed me, David Bowie, Lou Reed, Mata Hoopel.

01:05:28.000 You remember all these bands?

01:05:30.000 Well, Lou Reed, for sure, yeah.

01:05:31.000 Yeah, anyway.

01:05:32.000 David Bowie, obviously.

01:05:33.000 Rod Stewart, obviously.

01:05:35.000 Same guy.

01:05:36.000 No, Rod Stewart was different.

01:05:38.000 Different manager.

01:05:39.000 Different manager.

01:05:39.000 But he was English, too.

01:05:42.000 So, it's hard to argue with someone that's got that kind of talent, right?

01:05:47.000 Well, it's hard to argue when you're 22 years old with a 45-year-old man who has had success.

01:05:55.000 Right.

01:05:56.000 Yeah, like I signed away my publishing and stuff.

01:05:59.000 This is an old story.

01:06:02.000 But, I mean, an old story from everybody from the Rolling Stones to, you know, you name it.

01:06:07.000 Prince.

01:06:09.000 If you were black, you know, it was like, here's a new car and a shiny ring and some money. 0.93

01:06:16.000 Yeah.

01:06:17.000 And so I remember I was getting ready to leave England and I heard that Gaff had good news for me in America.

01:06:34.000 So that's the reason I went home.

01:06:36.000 And the good news was, is that he just got a deal for me on Mercury Records.

01:06:45.000 And then, so I went back to the United States.

01:06:49.000 And we started, you know, started making records and just kept plowing away.

01:06:56.000 And the critics hated me.

01:06:58.000 You know, they fucking hated me because of Johnny Cougar.

01:07:02.000 And Maine Man came up with that name, Johnny Cougar.

01:07:06.000 And his excuse was his name was David Jones, and I called him David Bowie.

01:07:12.000 And look how well that worked out.

01:07:15.000 And that was, and I'm 22 and I'm going, but I don't like this name.

01:07:18.000 And they go, well, you don't have to, you don't have to participate.

01:07:25.000 You can go back to Indiana if you want.

01:07:28.000 It was like, well, fuck you then, I will.

01:07:30.000 And then I walked outside and thought for a minute, thought, hmm, I guess I'm Johnny Cougar.

01:07:38.000 Wow.

01:07:39.000 I hated it.

01:07:41.000 And they compared me to James Dean and Bruce.

01:07:44.000 And, you know, so the critics just hated that.

01:07:47.000 It was like, you know, he's so American.

01:07:49.000 He's so American.

01:07:51.000 You know, yeah, I was a fucking hillbilly.

01:07:56.000 Fucking critics.

01:07:57.000 They're always going to be a problem.

01:07:59.000 Yeah, but you know what?

01:08:03.000 I learned stuff from some of the critics that were good.

01:08:07.000 Like what?

01:08:08.000 Well, one of my best friends was a guy named Tim White, who was the editor of Rolling Stone and the editor of Billboard magazine, and he died a few years ago.

01:08:21.000 And you want to hear some inside baseball?

01:08:25.000 Sure.

01:08:28.000 Tim and I talked every day.

01:08:31.000 And Tim is as different as me as you.

01:08:36.000 Tim wore bow tie, white bucks, you know, blue jeans, suit jacket, every day.

01:08:45.000 And he was the editor of Rolling Stone for a long time.

01:08:49.000 And then he became editor of Billboard.

01:08:52.000 And he called me up and he said, I'm going to have to sign a deal with SoundScan.

01:09:02.000 I said, so.

01:09:04.000 I didn't know what that was.

01:09:07.000 He goes, John, you don't understand the ramifications of signing a deal with SoundScan.

01:09:12.000 I said, well, what are they?

01:09:14.000 He goes, you'll be out of business.

01:09:17.000 I go, why do you say that?

01:09:18.000 He goes, because now, the way the Billboard charts work, is this getting too inside baseball?

01:09:27.000 No, not at all.

01:09:29.000 The way that the charts work is that if you get played in Indianapolis and you get played in New York, it counts as one play.

01:09:39.000 New York counts as one play.

01:09:42.000 Indianapolis counts as one play.

01:09:43.000 A play is a play.

01:09:45.000 When SoundScan came in, they changed it so it's like the number one record of the week.

01:09:54.000 So if you got a play in New York, that was worth five points.

01:09:59.000 If you got a play in Indianapolis, that was worth a half a point.

01:10:04.000 So what does that mean?

01:10:05.000 That means that people who grew up in St. Louis and where rock took place, all of a sudden, you know, where I got played all the time, the points didn't amount to shit.

01:10:20.000 But what did?

01:10:22.000 Urban stations.

01:10:24.000 Urban stations played what?

01:10:28.000 Rap.

01:10:30.000 So, do you remember when all of a sudden rap music took over?

01:10:39.000 It wasn't because these guys were so great.

01:10:41.000 And I'm not saying they were bad.

01:10:43.000 I'm just saying that it was because of SoundScan.

01:10:47.000 And my friend Tim knew this was going to happen.

01:10:50.000 As soon as I signed this deal with SoundScan, and there was a magazine called Radio and Records at the time who was rivaling Billboard.

01:11:02.000 And If Tim hadn't bought SoundScan, Radio and Records would have bought them, which would have made them the premier record company, because they were the most modern.

01:11:18.000 So SoundScan changed everything.

01:11:20.000 So I'm sure that you remember that there was a time when you knew every song that was number one.

01:11:27.000 Then all of a sudden you woke up one day and you didn't know what the what did what's how does this song become number one?

01:11:35.000 But the way that it was before SoundScan, each song had to work its way up the charts.

01:11:42.000 So if you had like, you know, let's say 20 plays, I'm just throwing out low numbers, but you had 20 plays that got added to the 20 plays that you got the next week.

01:11:56.000 So now you have 40 plays.

01:11:57.000 So you might move up from 36 to 31.

01:12:02.000 But Joe Rogan in Boston was hearing the fucking songs as they move up.

01:12:08.000 Oh, I heard this new song.

01:12:09.000 You talk to your friend.

01:12:10.000 And they said, yeah, I heard that song.

01:12:13.000 And then all of a sudden the song would build and Michael Jackson would be number one or whoever.

01:12:21.000 And once SoundScan took over, if you were in a rock band, the record companies said, well, fuck this.

01:12:31.000 We're not even going to advertise in Indianapolis anymore.

01:12:37.000 The biggest numbers are RB stations and they're playing rap.

01:12:49.000 And that's what we're going to service those people.

01:12:52.000 Because back then, you know, there was payola and all that stuff going on.

01:12:56.000 Of course.

01:12:57.000 So there was like no money coming into Indianapolis all of a sudden, where there used to be.

01:13:02.000 It was all going to New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, to all these RB stations. 0.51

01:13:09.000 And then what was that thing called when you could like download records for nothing?

01:13:19.000 Napster.

01:13:20.000 Yeah.

01:13:21.000 And then that started.

01:13:22.000 And then that really put us out of it.

01:13:24.000 Put all rock guys out of it.

01:13:26.000 If you check the Billboard charts right now, I bet you you'd be hard-pressed to find two rock bands in the top.

01:13:33.000 Rock bands right now, just in general, are almost non-existent in terms of like new bands.

01:13:40.000 It's really weird.

01:13:42.000 There used to be so many rock bands, and rock and roll is still a very popular form of music when you listen to the older stuff.

01:13:51.000 That's why I've decided, I don't mean to plug myself, but they have been asking me, because I got tired of going on tour and being a cheerleader, which is what I was.

01:14:08.000 Let's do a rounding hit of small town.

01:14:11.000 I was born, you know, and everybody'd stand up singing.

01:14:15.000 I was playing to 20,000 people and everybody was drunk.

01:14:18.000 And I was just kind of the cheerleader, you know, the human beings.

01:14:22.000 People's good time.

01:14:23.000 Yeah, giving them the opportunity.

01:14:26.000 I just thought, you know, I'm here to be a musician.

01:14:29.000 This is not being a musician.

01:14:30.000 This is being a fucking clown.

01:14:33.000 I don't want to be a clown.

01:14:35.000 So I started playing in theaters, which pissed everybody off.

01:14:39.000 I said, and, you know, when you come to one of my shows, and this has been for the last 20 years I've been doing this.

01:14:46.000 You come to one of my shows in a theater, it says, please recognize.

01:14:51.000 Back then, pull that sucker up close to your face. 1.00

01:14:53.000 The microphone.

01:14:54.000 Otherwise, we're barely here.

01:14:56.000 You're very soft-spoken already.

01:14:57.000 How's that?

01:14:58.000 There we go.

01:14:59.000 I am?

01:15:00.000 And?

01:15:01.000 I am soft-spoken.

01:15:03.000 Yeah, a little bit.

01:15:04.000 Yeah.

01:15:04.000 You know why?

01:15:05.000 Why?

01:15:06.000 Because I'm deaf.

01:15:07.000 Are you really?

01:15:07.000 Oh, from all the singing?

01:15:09.000 All the music?

01:15:10.000 Oh, every rock star is deaf. 1.00

01:15:12.000 No one knew shit about hearing protection back then.

01:15:12.000 I'm deaf.

01:15:15.000 I can't hear.

01:15:15.000 No, I'm deaf.

01:15:17.000 All my friends in bands and all my friends that are hunters.

01:15:22.000 Deaf.

01:15:23.000 Can't hear.

01:15:24.000 Guns and loud music. 0.86

01:15:24.000 Yeah. 0.86

01:15:26.000 Yeah, my kids would love it because they could walk up and say shit behind my back. 1.00

01:15:32.000 I heard that.

01:15:34.000 I got three girls and two boys.

01:15:39.000 How many kids you got?

01:15:40.000 Three.

01:15:41.000 Three girls.

01:15:45.000 Girls are at about 12, you lose them. 0.99

01:15:51.000 And then about 21, they come back.

01:15:53.000 I haven't lost them.

01:15:55.000 You haven't?

01:15:56.000 No, no.

01:15:56.000 I'm real close.

01:15:57.000 Yeah.

01:15:59.000 I'm 17 at 28.

01:16:01.000 I kind of lost mine.

01:16:02.000 You know, it was like, but now it's kind of like, but I do have a daughter that's really sick.

01:16:10.000 It's not fucking fun.

01:16:12.000 Oh, that sucks.

01:16:13.000 I'm sorry to hear that.

01:16:14.000 She's got cancer in the brain. 1.00

01:16:19.000 Oh, Jesus.

01:16:20.000 And she's suffering right now.

01:16:26.000 But that kid used to call me up and I'd go, Teddy, you can have a thought without asking me if it's, you know, figure it out yourself.

01:16:38.000 You don't have to ask me everything, you know.

01:16:41.000 But I love having kids.

01:16:43.000 I do too.

01:16:44.000 It has made me a much nicer person, that's for sure.

01:16:46.000 Yeah, me too.

01:16:47.000 But I've stayed close with them even through the teenage years, luckily.

01:16:52.000 But, you know, I worked hard at it.

01:16:54.000 I was on tour all the time.

01:16:56.000 Yeah.

01:16:57.000 Well, that's one of the things that I did when we moved to Texas almost six years ago now.

01:17:02.000 Is that I decided to be home a lot more.

01:17:06.000 In the beginning, when here I was still touring a lot, I would do, you know, weekends.

01:17:10.000 I'd go do shows.

01:17:12.000 But now I hardly ever.

01:17:15.000 Now I have my own comedy club, so I'm in town all the time.

01:17:18.000 What do you think of stand-up now?

01:17:20.000 I love it.

01:17:21.000 It's a great time for stand-up.

01:17:23.000 Yeah.

01:17:23.000 You think?

01:17:24.000 Yeah.

01:17:26.000 You don't have to worry about crossing the line.

01:17:29.000 Yeah, you do.

01:17:30.000 Yeah.

01:17:31.000 You'll cross the line, but not with the people that you care about.

01:17:31.000 Yeah, you do.

01:17:36.000 You cross the line for people that are looking to be offended.

01:17:39.000 Well, which is a lot of people.

01:17:41.000 Yeah, so they're going to be mad.

01:17:42.000 Let them be mad.

01:17:43.000 Yeah.

01:17:44.000 You just can't pay attention.

01:17:45.000 That's the thing.

01:17:46.000 It's like, I tell all the comics, stay out of the comments.

01:17:50.000 Don't read anything about yourself, and you'll be all right.

01:17:53.000 The audience is what matters.

01:17:54.000 Is the audience laughing?

01:17:56.000 I've never Googled myself.

01:17:58.000 Good for you.

01:18:00.000 In my life.

01:18:00.000 Good.

01:18:01.000 I've never Googled myself ever because I don't give a fuck.

01:18:06.000 Well, that's a good practice to keep. 0.76

01:18:11.000 Where were we?

01:18:12.000 So we were talking about how they stuck you with the Johnny Cougar name.

01:18:17.000 You're in New York City.

01:18:19.000 That's kind of where we left it off.

01:18:21.000 I was trying to figure out what was the MTV days like, and when did it really start cracking?

01:18:27.000 Pull that microphone close up to you.

01:18:29.000 When did it really start cracking?

01:18:33.000 Do you know John Sykes?

01:18:34.000 No.

01:18:35.000 He was one of the guys who started MTV.

01:18:38.000 Okay.

01:18:40.000 And I remember calling him up, and I didn't know him.

01:18:46.000 This was like 1981, 82.

01:18:52.000 And like I said, you know, it was like All you really saw of guys in rock bands were the album covers, and you know, maybe on Midnight Special or something like that, or Don Kirschner's Rock Concert or something like that.

01:19:11.000 But then with MTV going all the time, and not very many people made videos.

01:19:15.000 But see, I was making videos because I had a hit in Australia.

01:19:20.000 And like I said, Australia was way ahead of us.

01:19:23.000 So it was the video that I just made in a club in London that was shown that made that record number one in Australia.

01:19:35.000 And so when MTV started, there wasn't that many people making videos, but I was.

01:19:47.000 So they had made content.

01:19:51.000 So they played me all the fucking time just because nobody else had videos yet.

01:19:57.000 Right, people hadn't caught up yet.

01:19:59.000 Right.

01:19:59.000 And I remember sitting with, I can't remember the guy, some English guy.

01:20:06.000 And I said, Do you, what is this MTV thing?

01:20:11.000 He goes, I don't know.

01:20:12.000 The record company told me, I can't remember the guy's name.

01:20:15.000 He was really a good songwriter.

01:20:17.000 But you don't hear of him much anymore.

01:20:20.000 Anyway, I had a conversation.

01:20:23.000 Neither one of us knew what was going on.

01:20:25.000 And then I met John, and I was the first, and John and I got along great.

01:20:34.000 I was the first promotion that MTV did.

01:20:38.000 And we gave away a pink house.

01:20:41.000 Oh, wow.

01:20:42.000 You know, and you had to register and do all this stuff.

01:20:47.000 And there's a funny story that goes with that.

01:20:51.000 So Sykes and somebody else came to Indiana to find a house in Bloomington that they were going to buy.

01:21:01.000 And then they were going to do a show.

01:21:03.000 And I did an ad where I went, and you can win a house and we're going to paint the mother pig, you know.

01:21:12.000 And that's what they did.

01:21:13.000 Except the house they bought, Joe, was on a chemical dump.

01:21:19.000 Oh, no.

01:21:21.000 But I didn't know it, and they didn't know because they're from New York.

01:21:26.000 And so when I found out, I called them up.

01:21:30.000 I said, guys, we can't give away this house.

01:21:33.000 It's on a fucking chemical dump.

01:21:35.000 Because RCA was dumping chemicals out in this field that was right next to the house that we bought, you know.

01:21:45.000 And back then, in the early 80s, there wasn't much legislation about where you can dump that kind of stuff.

01:21:54.000 So they had to buy another house, which they weren't happy about.

01:21:57.000 So they had to buy two houses, couldn't sell the other one, gave it away.

01:22:02.000 And Sykes, to this day, I'll tease him about it.

01:22:05.000 And he'll go, oh, we took that off the books years ago.

01:22:09.000 Jeez.

01:22:10.000 But it went from walking down the street to nobody know who the fuck you are to walking down the street.

01:22:23.000 And everybody knew who you were.

01:22:26.000 Everybody.

01:22:27.000 I mean, it got the at the height of MTV.

01:22:32.000 You couldn't go.

01:22:33.000 I couldn't go anyplace.

01:22:35.000 Did you get the agoraphobia before that?

01:22:38.000 Oh, yeah.

01:22:38.000 Oh, boy.

01:22:39.000 So that probably just made it way worse, right?

01:22:42.000 No, actually, again, Joe, lucky.

01:22:45.000 It helped me get over it.

01:22:49.000 It helped me.

01:22:50.000 And, you know, like I believe that all growth takes place in the chemicals inside our body.

01:22:58.000 So I was growing still because I grew up in public.

01:23:02.000 Right.

01:23:03.000 You know, I grew, I mean, I literally grew up.

01:23:06.000 When I got my first record deal, Joe, I had never written a song.

01:23:10.000 Wow.

01:23:11.000 Never written a song.

01:23:14.000 They asked me, well, play some of the songs you've written.

01:23:16.000 It's like, I don't write no fucking songs.

01:23:19.000 I'm a barroom singer.

01:23:21.000 I sing other people's songs.

01:23:23.000 But do you want a song?

01:23:24.000 What do you want me to write for?

01:23:25.000 Dylan's writing great songs.

01:23:26.000 Shrinks. 1.00

01:23:27.000 I haven't written anything.

01:23:29.000 Nothing.

01:23:30.000 So when did you start writing?

01:23:30.000 Wow.

01:23:31.000 After you got a record deal?

01:23:33.000 Yeah.

01:23:34.000 Wow.

01:23:35.000 But it turns out you're a great writer.

01:23:36.000 That's crazy.

01:23:38.000 And I have dyslexia.

01:23:41.000 Which means I can't read.

01:23:43.000 You should see my songwriting books.

01:23:47.000 It's absolutely terrible.

01:23:50.000 It looks like, you know, I have to have somebody now, after I write a song, I have to give it to somebody right away and let them copy it and I'll read it to them so that we can read what the fucking, you know, what I wrote.

01:24:08.000 Because songwriting is not what people think it is.

01:24:10.000 But anyway, back to MTV.

01:24:12.000 It just blew up and you couldn't go anywhere.

01:24:16.000 I couldn't.

01:24:18.000 I would walk down the street and all I did was sign autographs and shake hands and I didn't like it at all.

01:24:27.000 Well, that'd be very weird.

01:24:29.000 Yeah, I mean, it was like, you know, you've been in rock bands since you were 13.

01:24:35.000 Nobody gave a shit.

01:24:37.000 And then all of a sudden they did.

01:24:41.000 And, you know, it was the baby boomers coming of age. 0.55

01:24:46.000 And, you know, I was very fortunate, but unappreciative.

01:24:51.000 So when you first started writing songs, what was your process when you knew how to write songs?

01:24:59.000 How did you.

01:25:01.000 Well, I figured out, because don't forget the critics hated me.

01:25:09.000 Already?

01:25:09.000 Yeah.

01:25:10.000 Oh, yeah.

01:25:11.000 They hated Johnny Cougar.

01:25:12.000 Fucking hated him.

01:25:14.000 And I didn't like him much either.

01:25:19.000 Because we weren't any good.

01:25:23.000 We just weren't.

01:25:24.000 We did not write songs.

01:25:25.000 We didn't know how to do anything.

01:25:31.000 So I figured, how do you reach a lot of people by being on the radio?

01:25:42.000 So keep it simple, stupid.

01:25:46.000 So I would write, like, I had a song called Hurt So Good.

01:25:49.000 Do you remember that song?

01:25:50.000 Sure.

01:25:51.000 Yeah, Hurt So Good.

01:25:52.000 I wrote that in a shower.

01:25:54.000 And I came out real quick and I wrote it down.

01:25:57.000 And then I had somebody write it down.

01:26:02.000 And I remembered the melody and I sang it into a tape machine.

01:26:07.000 And I got so many funny stories.

01:26:13.000 I was down in Criteria, which was in Florida in Miami.

01:26:20.000 And, you know, it was the early 80s.

01:26:28.000 And so we had this and Criteria had five or six studios and, you know, there were like, I don't know, all kinds of bands.

01:26:39.000 The PGs were over here and this band was over here and I don't remember.

01:26:45.000 And we had we had the studio blocked out, but we wouldn't show up.

01:26:56.000 We had other things to do.

01:26:59.000 There was a place called Scaramouche.

01:27:02.000 They had the prettiest girls you ever saw in your life.

01:27:05.000 So it was like we did not have time to go to the studio because we had been up till daybreak at Scaramouche.

01:27:14.000 You know, and so I was spending a lot of fucking money by now.

01:27:20.000 And it was like maybe, you know, at the time, a half a million dollars.

01:27:23.000 And I had three songs done.

01:27:26.000 Whoa.

01:27:28.000 That's exactly right.

01:27:29.000 Whoa.

01:27:30.000 And I'd had a couple hits.

01:27:31.000 I had I De Lover, Ain't Even Done with the Nine.

01:27:36.000 And this time, I think, and so those songs were like got into the top 20.

01:27:46.000 Anyway, the record company came down and said, Melling camp, what the fuck?

01:27:51.000 You know, you're spending all this money.

01:27:53.000 And if you don't get on with it, we're going to drop you from the label.

01:27:59.000 And I went, you can't drop me from the fucking label.

01:28:03.000 I'm just starting.

01:28:03.000 Are you kidding me?

01:28:05.000 Well, we want to come down and hear what you've done.

01:28:09.000 I said, well, come on down.

01:28:12.000 I played him three songs, the three I had done in six weeks.

01:28:21.000 Anyway, I played him three songs.

01:28:24.000 They hated him.

01:28:26.000 Which songs were they?

01:28:28.000 Jack and Diane.

01:28:29.000 Oh, God.

01:28:30.000 Hurt So Good.

01:28:31.000 Oh, God.

01:28:32.000 And Hand to Hold On To.

01:28:33.000 Oh, my God.

01:28:35.000 They hated those.

01:28:36.000 Oh, they hated him.

01:28:37.000 They said, Oh, wow.

01:28:39.000 They said, John, this is they're too rough.

01:28:42.000 They're too raw.

01:28:44.000 And what is this sound in Jack and Diane?

01:28:47.000 This it's not even, what is that sound?

01:28:52.000 Well, the sound was I would walk by the Bee Gee studio and they had just invented drum machines.

01:29:02.000 And the Bee Gees were using it to keep time. 0.69

01:29:05.000 Because, you know, most drummers they speed up.

01:29:08.000 You know, you start the song at this tempo, and all of a sudden they're like, no, By the end of the song, it's like, I can't keep up with you.

01:29:14.000 God damn it.

01:29:15.000 Slow down.

01:29:17.000 So the Bee Gees were using it to keep time.

01:29:23.000 And I heard this sound.

01:29:25.000 And so I knew the engineer, his name was Albie Gluten.

01:29:31.000 And I said, Albi, can I borrow that machine?

01:29:33.000 He goes, Yeah, because we're not going to be in the studio for a week.

01:29:39.000 So we were doing a song called Jack and Diane that just was not working out because the drummer kept speeding up.

01:29:46.000 And when you're trying to keep it simple, stupid, simple is hard.

01:29:52.000 Because if you make a little mistake, it's a big mistake now because there's not a bunch of shit covering up your mistake.

01:30:01.000 Right.

01:30:03.000 So I called up Mick Ronson.

01:30:07.000 He was the guitar player for David Bowie.

01:30:10.000 You remember Mick?

01:30:11.000 No, I don't.

01:30:13.000 Joe!

01:30:14.000 God damn it.

01:30:15.000 Sorry.

01:30:17.000 Anyway, Mick was a great guy.

01:30:20.000 He was Bowie's guitar player when Bowie was great, when he had Ziggy Stardust and all that stuff.

01:30:26.000 And Ronson was an English guy, and he'd call me Johnny all the time.

01:30:31.000 And he said, Johnny, maybe you should put those baby rattles on there.

01:30:38.000 And I go, what?

01:30:40.000 He goes, you know, that drum machine thing that makes that noise just to keep time.

01:30:47.000 And I said, okay, we'll try it.

01:30:50.000 So we put on this dune, doon, do, and it was perfect timing.

01:31:01.000 Perfect.

01:31:03.000 So the idea was, is that we'll take that drum machine out when we get everything.

01:31:10.000 We'll take it out.

01:31:12.000 And now the drummer had to play in time because that machine did not budge.

01:31:19.000 That machine was perfect.

01:31:21.000 And it was a prototype of a drum machine.

01:31:24.000 That's how new it was.

01:31:26.000 It was a prototype.

01:31:29.000 And it was the only one.

01:31:30.000 They gave them the VGs to try it out and see how they liked it.

01:31:33.000 And so we got it all together and we took the drum machine out.

01:31:40.000 Sounded like shit.

01:31:44.000 It sounded great with the drum machine.

01:31:47.000 So I said, fuck it, we'll just leave the drum machine in.

01:31:51.000 And it worked because nobody'd ever heard that sound.

01:31:55.000 And the record company didn't like that.

01:31:57.000 Oh, they hated it.

01:31:58.000 They hated that fucking sound.

01:32:00.000 But that song was so good.

01:32:03.000 Well, you know, and it's surprising to me that to this day, how many people still love that song?

01:32:11.000 It's a fucking great song.

01:32:13.000 You know, and every time.

01:32:15.000 What year was that?

01:32:16.000 1981.

01:32:18.000 Wow.

01:32:19.000 I was 14.

01:32:20.000 So how old were you at 19?

01:32:22.000 14.

01:32:23.000 See, high school.

01:32:24.000 Yeah, you were there.

01:32:25.000 Yeah.

01:32:26.000 That's great.

01:32:28.000 See, that's great.

01:32:29.000 And I love hearing, you know, guys your age talk about it because it's just like, I didn't know what the fuck I was doing.

01:32:38.000 And the fact that that song today, I had somebody tell me, one of the nicest things anybody said to me was, is that, John, there was Romeo and Juliet.

01:32:51.000 There was Frankie and Johnny.

01:32:53.000 And now there's Jack and Diane.

01:32:56.000 And you've joined, those two kids have joined those people of importance in American culture.

01:33:05.000 And think about it.

01:33:05.000 Yeah.

01:33:08.000 Now, who would have fucking thought that some dumbass like me would write a fucking song as a child when I first started writing songs and create those two characters that made such an impression on everybody?

01:33:24.000 The only other one I think about is Brenda and Eddie from Billy Joel.

01:33:28.000 Scenes from an Italian Restaurant.

01:33:30.000 Yeah.

01:33:32.000 That's another one.

01:33:33.000 Yeah.

01:33:33.000 Jack and Diane was fucking huge when I was in high school.

01:33:37.000 I can't believe the record company didn't like that.

01:33:41.000 They didn't like hand to hold on to.

01:33:44.000 God.

01:33:46.000 And they didn't like me.

01:33:48.000 God.

01:33:49.000 And they didn't like me.

01:33:52.000 How could you be more wrong than Jack and Diane?

01:33:54.000 Jack and Diane was fucking huge.

01:33:57.000 Joe, look at, I don't know that much about your career, but look at your career and look at what suits have said to you and how wrong they were.

01:34:07.000 Well, the most successful thing that I've ever done, nobody had any input on at all.

01:34:12.000 Which is this.

01:34:14.000 Well, there you go.

01:34:15.000 Yeah, there's not a chance in hell anybody would have said, yeah, have unfiltered conversations for three hours with random people.

01:34:24.000 And, you know, millions of people will listen and watch.

01:34:27.000 No one would have believed it.

01:34:28.000 But when we did it, we didn't do it for anybody else.

01:34:32.000 But you were an actor before.

01:34:34.000 Yeah, well, I was a comic first, and then because I got a development deal, they gave me some money to be on a sitcom.

01:34:41.000 So I did that.

01:34:42.000 That sitcom got canceled.

01:34:44.000 Then I did another sitcom that was kind of successful called News Radio.

01:34:48.000 That got canceled.

01:34:49.000 And then I wound up being on Fear Factor.

01:34:52.000 Yeah.

01:34:53.000 It's just a bunch of weird circumstances that a lot of luck, a lot of weird stuff happened.

01:34:59.000 A lot of luck.

01:35:00.000 Yeah.

01:35:01.000 See, and you know what?

01:35:01.000 Yeah.

01:35:04.000 I walk in my house sometimes and I look around and think, I get to fucking live here.

01:35:11.000 Yeah.

01:35:12.000 I get to fucking live here.

01:35:14.000 I think that all the time.

01:35:15.000 Yeah.

01:35:16.000 I get to live here.

01:35:17.000 And how lucky I am to have had that kind of success from such a horrible beginning as Johnny Cougar.

01:35:29.000 And, you know, to be able to, you know, do I've done what I wanted to do ever since I decided, fuck you guys.

01:35:41.000 Yeah.

01:35:42.000 After American Fool came out and those songs became hits, nobody has ever said shit to me about anything.

01:35:51.000 Well, they realized they were wrong.

01:35:53.000 Well, those guys, I'm sure, are out of business.

01:35:57.000 And I have to kind of smile about the rock critics because it got to the point where I had such so many songs on the radio that they couldn't ignore it anymore.

01:36:12.000 You were undeniable.

01:36:13.000 Yeah.

01:36:14.000 And you know what?

01:36:15.000 That's the word I used to say.

01:36:17.000 That's the key to success.

01:36:19.000 That's the word I used to say to the guys in the band.

01:36:21.000 We have to make the song undeniable.

01:36:24.000 Because if you give them an inch, they'll find a fucking reason not to.

01:36:27.000 They definitely will.

01:36:28.000 And there's good in that, too.

01:36:30.000 There's good in those people that hate.

01:36:32.000 They're valuable.

01:36:33.000 They can fuel you to greatness.

01:36:35.000 They can fuel you to be better.

01:36:37.000 Because if you know that there's people out there that are just going to fucking hate on you no matter what you do, and you just got to come up with something that, listen, this will be undeniable.

01:36:46.000 And they'll still hate it.

01:36:48.000 Look, I was watching a fucking interview yesterday where this lady was talking shit about the Beatles. 0.97

01:36:54.000 She was talking about how she thinks the Beatles are terrible.

01:36:57.000 And this lady was not particularly articulate. 1.00

01:37:01.000 She wasn't interesting or compelling.

01:37:03.000 She didn't seem very intelligent.

01:37:06.000 But she was speaking with such authority about how she thought the Beatles were terrible.

01:37:12.000 And I was like, well, you're fucking wrong.

01:37:15.000 You couldn't be more wrong.

01:37:18.000 You couldn't be more wrong.

01:37:19.000 They are one of the greatest bands in the history of the fucking known world.

01:37:24.000 Yeah.

01:37:25.000 Fact.

01:37:26.000 But this lady was just going, which shows you you cannot make everybody happy because some people don't want to be happy.

01:37:33.000 They don't want to see good.

01:37:35.000 You had four really talented people in that band.

01:37:40.000 And it showed, because some of the songs, hear me out, some of the songs, it was good for my generation because we went from cartoons to rock and roll.

01:37:52.000 So in a town where I was born, lived a man who sailed the seas.

01:38:00.000 And, you know, it was a cartoon.

01:38:02.000 Right, right.

01:38:03.000 And the guy that produced Martin, the guy that produced the Beatles, up until that point, he made comedy records.

01:38:15.000 Ah.

01:38:16.000 He made comedy records and cartoons.

01:38:16.000 Yeah.

01:38:19.000 And so that's, at least that's my understanding.

01:38:24.000 And he brought that to them, you know, and, you know, you have four guys writing songs.

01:38:36.000 It's a lot better than John Mellencamp writing songs.

01:38:39.000 Tell you that.

01:38:41.000 You know, so.

01:38:42.000 Yeah.

01:38:43.000 But my point is, it's like, you can't make everybody happy because everybody's not happy.

01:38:48.000 And they don't want to be happy.

01:38:50.000 I have said for years, I'm not for anybody.

01:38:54.000 I'm not for anybody anymore.

01:38:57.000 Right.

01:38:58.000 If you're coming to my show, and this is when I started playing theaters, if you're coming to my show to hear all these hits, you're not going to.

01:39:06.000 But that's why after 20 years, I'm going to go back out and I'm going to play nothing but hits for two and a half hours.

01:39:16.000 That's how many hit records I've done.

01:39:17.000 That's incredible.

01:39:18.000 Yeah, it's going to be, you know, and I'm, and now I'm looking forward to it.

01:39:23.000 Yeah.

01:39:24.000 Because I have not played I Need a Lover in 25 years on stage.

01:39:29.000 I'm not.

01:39:29.000 So it's fresh.

01:39:30.000 Yeah, it's a brand new song.

01:39:31.000 Yeah.

01:39:32.000 I'm going to be playing it in a way that nobody's ever imagined.

01:39:36.000 Wait till if you come and come and see me.

01:39:40.000 Wait, you hear Jack and Diane?

01:39:42.000 I have jammed it up and it's a soul song now.

01:39:45.000 Wow.

01:39:46.000 Yeah, there's a term for it.

01:39:49.000 Smash.

01:39:51.000 What do they call it?

01:39:52.000 Smash something.

01:39:54.000 Anyway, we turned it into a soul song.

01:39:57.000 I mean, what would it be like if Jack and Diane was a soul song?

01:40:01.000 So you leave the melody the same, but you put the instruments around them differently.

01:40:07.000 You know.

01:40:08.000 To make it interesting for you.

01:40:10.000 Well, and to the audience, because when the chorus comes in, they're going to be singing that chorus.

01:40:15.000 Right.

01:40:16.000 Because if I play it now.

01:40:18.000 He's trying to push that thing up to your face.

01:40:21.000 If I play it now, you know, it's just usually me and acoustic guitar.

01:40:26.000 And it's good because a little ditty, and I don't have to sing anymore.

01:40:32.000 Right.

01:40:33.000 They sing the whole song.

01:40:34.000 Right.

01:40:35.000 And I might go, oh, yeah, and that's it.

01:40:38.000 And then the audience sings it, which is great.

01:40:41.000 Which is great.

01:40:43.000 It's got to be really cool.

01:40:45.000 I've got to come see you live.

01:40:47.000 Are you in Texas at all?

01:40:50.000 I don't know.

01:40:51.000 You don't know?

01:40:57.000 When did you drop the Cougar?

01:41:00.000 Because at first you were John Cougar Mellencamp, and I remember that.

01:41:03.000 I was like, what is going on?

01:41:05.000 Why does he have another name?

01:41:07.000 It was confusing to me.

01:41:09.000 Well, I was trying to, and I think I did it successfully.

01:41:12.000 It was a good transition.

01:41:14.000 I didn't, you know, I could call up somebody and go, hey, it's John Mellencamp.

01:41:19.000 They wouldn't take my call.

01:41:20.000 I could call back two seconds later and go, it's John Cougar, and they would take my call.

01:41:25.000 So I figured this will have to be a slow change.

01:41:28.000 Elvis Costello tried to do the same thing and didn't work.

01:41:31.000 What was his real name?

01:41:33.000 I don't remember.

01:41:34.000 That's not his real name.

01:41:34.000 Oh, wow.

01:41:37.000 But, you know, he was tired of being Elvis Costello, and he went back to his real name, and people just wouldn't accept it.

01:41:44.000 But with me, it was such a slow burn thing to get over.

01:41:51.000 So, you know, again, what?

01:41:57.000 Lucky.

01:41:59.000 It was the first time that I recognized that artists were forced to change their name with you.

01:42:04.000 Really?

01:42:04.000 I didn't know.

01:42:05.000 I had no idea.

01:42:05.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:42:06.000 Do you know?

01:42:08.000 Do you know that every fucking movie star that we ended up watching on those black and white things, that's not any of their real names.

01:42:17.000 They're all changed.

01:42:18.000 They're all changed.

01:42:19.000 You think Rock Hudson was his real name?

01:42:22.000 Sounds good.

01:42:23.000 Yeah, it sounds great.

01:42:24.000 Yeah.

01:42:25.000 No.

01:42:25.000 Yeah, somebody decided they wanted to come up with a catch your name, which is interesting for a guy like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

01:42:32.000 It kept his real name as bizarre as it was and hard to pronounce.

01:42:37.000 Yeah.

01:42:39.000 And I just saw him smashing the president.

01:42:45.000 Yeah, he's always smashing somebody.

01:42:47.000 I think he's bored.

01:42:50.000 He needs to get back and run.

01:42:52.000 He was a great governor.

01:42:54.000 He really was.

01:42:54.000 He did a really good job with California.

01:42:57.000 California's a fucking mess now.

01:42:59.000 When you transitioned to John Cougar Mellencamp, and then eventually, like, how long did you John Cougar Mellencamp before you became John Mellencamp again?

01:43:12.000 I think the last John Cougar Mellencamp record was a record called Scarecrow.

01:43:27.000 And it had Small Town on it.

01:43:31.000 It had Small Town on it.

01:43:32.000 It had five hits.

01:43:34.000 Can you imagine?

01:43:35.000 It had five fucking hit records off that one album.

01:43:39.000 Pretty amazing.

01:43:41.000 Yeah.

01:43:42.000 Lucky.

01:43:43.000 And don't forget, I had never written a fucking song.

01:43:47.000 That's what's crazy.

01:43:48.000 Yeah.

01:43:49.000 Never written a song.

01:43:50.000 So I grew up in public.

01:43:53.000 And if you listen to my songs, now so much more mature than those young.

01:44:04.000 I got so sick of it that I wrote a song called Pop Singer in like 991.

01:44:08.000 Never wanted to be no pop singer.

01:44:10.000 Never wanted to sing no pop song.

01:44:11.000 I remember that.

01:44:12.000 Never wanted to, you know, have a manager hang out after the show.

01:44:20.000 I just, you know, it was, I wanted to be a musician and not a clown, which, you know, if you remember back, Joe, and I'm putting anybody down, but there were a lot of clownish guys from MTV.

01:44:39.000 Sure.

01:44:40.000 You know, that were like, what?

01:44:43.000 Yeah.

01:44:44.000 You know.

01:44:45.000 And a lot of sexism and stuff from MTV and no black people for a while.

01:44:51.000 You know, they didn't play any black people.

01:44:53.000 They might play Michael Jackson, but other than that.

01:44:55.000 Right.

01:44:57.000 But they just didn't.

01:44:58.000 And I remember talking to Sykes about it.

01:45:01.000 Sykes, me, Don Henley, and somebody else went and did, they were going to drop MTV off a whole bunch of stations, and we got on a plane and went there, went to all these different stations that were going to drop MTV and talk to them why they couldn't do it.

01:45:21.000 And it worked.

01:45:23.000 Why were they dropping MTV?

01:45:27.000 Too lewd, too.

01:45:30.000 I want to tell you something else, young man.

01:45:32.000 I want to tell you something else.

01:45:37.000 I showed that by accident in a video.

01:45:43.000 And MTV wasn't going to play the video.

01:45:50.000 Because you had a tattoo?

01:45:51.000 Yeah.

01:45:52.000 That's hilarious.

01:45:53.000 Yeah, because I had a tattoo.

01:45:56.000 That's hilarious.

01:45:58.000 I know.

01:45:59.000 Oh, my God.

01:46:00.000 It's so funny when you think about what music is like now.

01:46:05.000 And then especially like in the late 80s when hip-hop really took off and then gangster rap took off.

01:46:13.000 Well, and now you know why, because what we're talking about about SoundScan and stuff.

01:46:20.000 That's how all that happened.

01:46:22.000 And my deceased friend Tim White, who I love dearly, told me it was going to happen.

01:46:28.000 And I just sat back and went, I can't believe that this is right.

01:46:33.000 Wow.

01:46:33.000 I can't believe that that can happen.

01:46:35.000 You know, rock is too important to the culture, too important, you know.

01:46:41.000 And there's a lot better songwriters than me, and we all got it.

01:46:46.000 86th.

01:46:47.000 I mean, like the fucking Rolling Stones just put out a new album, and I never heard it.

01:46:52.000 You never heard it.

01:46:53.000 No, I saw them live a couple of years ago here.

01:46:57.000 They played at the Circuit of the Americas.

01:46:59.000 It was fucking incredible.

01:47:01.000 It was like having an out-of-body experience.

01:47:03.000 It's like I couldn't believe they were really there.

01:47:05.000 Yeah.

01:47:06.000 I remember watching Mick Jagger on stage, and my friend was talking to me, and I was watching him, and he's like, Isn't this fucking incredible?

01:47:13.000 I was like, I can't believe it's really him.

01:47:16.000 It's like they are so iconic.

01:47:20.000 And here he is in his fucking 80s, just jamming.

01:47:24.000 The guy brings two trailers, two whole trailers that are just gym equipment.

01:47:30.000 Yeah.

01:47:31.000 Everywhere he goes, works out every day.

01:47:33.000 Every year, we started FarmAid in 1985, and every year, because you have at FarmAid, you have a press conference in the beginning, and then I don't go on until like 9 o'clock.

01:47:53.000 So I got all day.

01:47:54.000 You know what I do half the day?

01:47:57.000 Neil, can I use your fucking gym equipment?

01:48:00.000 Because he's got a trailer.

01:48:03.000 Like, you know, you would haul groceries and couches and shit.

01:48:09.000 And it's full of gym equipment.

01:48:12.000 Can I use your?

01:48:13.000 So I use his, not his weights so much, but his, you know, his, what do you call it?

01:48:21.000 I call it the lazy machine.

01:48:23.000 Where you can be lazy.

01:48:24.000 Elliptical?

01:48:25.000 Yeah, elliptical cross-trainer.

01:48:27.000 Hey, listen, it's better than nothing.

01:48:28.000 Yeah.

01:48:29.000 But I mean, watching Mick in his 80s dancing around on stage and doing a two-hour concert with full energy.

01:48:38.000 It's so impressive.

01:48:39.000 It's so inspirational that this guy still loves it that much.

01:48:43.000 I mean, he wasn't phoning nothing in.

01:48:46.000 I mean, it was fucking him dancing, button your lid, baby.

01:48:51.000 I mean, it was full on.

01:48:53.000 I was like, wow.

01:48:54.000 It was amazing.

01:48:55.000 And what I find amazing, and I don't know why I find it amazing, but I find it amazing that people relate to music in that fashion.

01:49:07.000 Because I didn't know that as a kid.

01:49:10.000 I just thought, you know, I thought I'd make two records and that'd be done.

01:49:15.000 That's why I stayed in Bloomington.

01:49:17.000 I had a little bit of money.

01:49:18.000 I didn't know how much more I'd have, you know, how much longer I was going to last.

01:49:23.000 So let's try to buy a little house.

01:49:26.000 And I talked to, I'm good friends with Bruce, and him and I both kind of just look at each other and go, Can you fucking believe it?

01:49:38.000 Because he's from a real little shitty town in New Jersey.

01:49:42.000 And we both just look at each other and go, fuck, can you believe it?

01:49:48.000 It's unbelievable.

01:49:50.000 Well, gratitude's an important thing.

01:49:52.000 It's kind of co-opted today with a lot of like this spiritual movement.

01:49:56.000 You know, people say it, and it kind of sounds hollow and fake.

01:50:00.000 But real gratitude and real thankfulness for a life that you've been so lucky to have and I've been so lucky to have.

01:50:07.000 It's very important.

01:50:08.000 It's an amazing thing.

01:50:10.000 I mean, how could you not look back at your life and not think, can you fucking believe it?

01:50:13.000 Yeah, and you know, the thing of it is, is that I sometimes ask my audience, I go, where are you right now?

01:50:23.000 And most of you probably say, I am at a John Mellencamp concert in Austin, Texas.

01:50:35.000 And my answer is yes, but also where you really are, you're on a fucking rock that's going around the fucking sun that has been here for millions of fucking years.

01:50:49.000 And so we are only here for a blink of an eye.

01:50:54.000 So stop worrying about everything so fucking much.

01:50:59.000 It doesn't fucking matter.

01:51:02.000 Don't beep your horn because the fucking guy in front of you didn't take off right when the light turned red.

01:51:08.000 It's not that important.

01:51:10.000 Don't take yourself so fucking seriously and try to try to have some humility.

01:51:17.000 You know, that's what I hate about politics today.

01:51:19.000 There's no fucking humility.

01:51:21.000 How about some humility?

01:51:22.000 I don't care what party you're with.

01:51:24.000 I don't give a fuck.

01:51:26.000 But show some humility and some, you know, respect for each other, which they just don't.

01:51:31.000 Right.

01:51:32.000 They just don't.

01:51:33.000 It's terrible.

01:51:34.000 Yeah, there's a lot of that.

01:51:37.000 If we could get more people to recognize how brief and fleeting this moment alive is.

01:51:46.000 It's so, well, I got it tattooed right here on my arm.

01:51:51.000 And my grandmother told me this when she lived to be 100.

01:51:55.000 And I would go over and I'd lay in bed with her when she was like 99, 98. 0.99

01:52:04.000 And one day she said to me, she goes, you know, John, if you don't stop discussing and wild living, you're not going to get into heaven.

01:52:15.000 And I went, ah, grandma.

01:52:18.000 She goes, yes, you, you know, you need to change your ways a little bit.

01:52:24.000 And I said, yeah, well, you'll get me into heaven.

01:52:27.000 Don't worry about it.

01:52:28.000 And she said, no.

01:52:30.000 She said, you're going to find out real soon.

01:52:34.000 Now listen, life is short even in its longest days.

01:52:42.000 It certainly feels short when you look back, right?

01:52:45.000 Oh, yeah.

01:52:46.000 But just think about those words coming from a 100-year-old woman. 0.99

01:52:51.000 Yeah.

01:52:52.000 You know, life is short even in its longest days.

01:52:57.000 Really, the opposite end of the spectrum.

01:52:59.000 Oh, yeah, life goes on.

01:53:01.000 Right, right, right, right.

01:53:03.000 So I wrote a song called Life is Short, and I love playing it.

01:53:08.000 I love playing it because it really hits the nail on the head of, you know, getting— How old did you say you were?

01:53:17.000 58.

01:53:18.000 58 years old.

01:53:20.000 You're still a kid.

01:53:22.000 You're still a kid.

01:53:24.000 How old are you now?

01:53:25.000 74.

01:53:26.000 Well, you look great.

01:53:26.000 Wow.

01:53:27.000 Thanks.

01:53:28.000 Maybe we can go on a date tomorrow.

01:53:34.000 Is singing and performing, is it different now?

01:53:39.000 Do you appreciate it more now than when you were younger?

01:53:45.000 Is it a different feeling because you've done so much and the scope of it is so big now in retrospect?

01:53:55.000 Well, like I said, I'm really looking forward to going out and doing a greatest hits tour.

01:53:59.000 I've never done one.

01:54:02.000 I can't even imagine thinking back to when I was like 35.

01:54:08.000 That idea would be like, shut the fuck up.

01:54:10.000 not doing that right but now at my age it's kind of like and i i was i did a thing with sean penn and sean and i were talking and he goes john just go do it Because I was on the fence about doing it.

01:54:25.000 He goes, what's wrong with you?

01:54:27.000 Yes, go do it.

01:54:28.000 Don't you think that if I could show the best parts of my movies to people that I would do it?

01:54:35.000 And I go, I don't know.

01:54:36.000 He goes, yeah, because you're really sharing something.

01:54:43.000 Well, it's also not a whole lot of people have ever done it before, right?

01:54:47.000 Not a whole lot of people have ever had the kind of hits that you've had.

01:54:49.000 So the opportunity to go out there and do two and a half hours of fucking hits is amazing.

01:54:58.000 And I have to, like I said, I walk in my house and I go, I can't believe I get to live here.

01:55:05.000 And, you know, I feel good about, you know, I'm the only father in the world that does not encourage their kids to work.

01:55:14.000 It's like, what do you want to go to work for?

01:55:17.000 You know, my son graduated from Duke, and it's just like, fuck that works off.

01:55:23.000 Do what you want to do.

01:55:24.000 You're 31 years old.

01:55:26.000 You're handsome.

01:55:27.000 You're 31 years old.

01:55:28.000 You could beat anybody up in the room.

01:55:31.000 You know, why do you want to?

01:55:35.000 But I think he's getting to the age where he wants to get a job, and I don't want him to leave because he still lives on my property.

01:55:43.000 And it's nice.

01:55:44.000 I love having him in there.

01:55:46.000 I love having HUD live with me.

01:55:48.000 He doesn't live with me.

01:55:49.000 He lives in a different house, a different building.

01:55:54.000 But I love having him there because I know that I can pick up the phone and go, hey, HUD.

01:55:58.000 And he's there.

01:56:00.000 And I'm telling you, having kids was one of the best things I ever did.

01:56:04.000 It's interesting, too, because having a kid when you're in high school, a lot of people think is like a death sentence for your career.

01:56:12.000 Well, it was a death sentence for my kid.

01:56:16.000 You know, I was 18 years old.

01:56:18.000 I was on drugs.

01:56:19.000 You know, my idea of raising a kid back then when I was in college was throwing water balloons at her. 1.00

01:56:26.000 That's all I knew.

01:56:27.000 It's like, this is fun.

01:56:30.000 You know, but it turned out, you know.

01:56:32.000 But, yeah, I really enjoy my kids.

01:56:41.000 And my dad told me that.

01:56:43.000 He told me, have as many kids as you can because when you get older, because see, I had, I don't know about you, but I had seven of my best friends die in 18 months.

01:56:57.000 Wow.

01:56:59.000 Yeah.

01:56:59.000 Because they couldn't get off the party.

01:57:02.000 They just couldn't get off the party because they were drunk all the time.

01:57:05.000 I mean, if you drink Crown Royal every fucking day, it's going to fuck up your liver.

01:57:13.000 100%.

01:57:14.000 Yeah.

01:57:15.000 And that's what they did.

01:57:16.000 I mean, you know, except Tim.

01:57:18.000 Tim had a heart attack.

01:57:20.000 Tim White, the guy I was telling you about, he died on an elevator ride from in New York from the ground floor to his office.

01:57:31.000 And by the time he got up there, he was dead.

01:57:33.000 Wow.

01:57:34.000 But he would call me up every day and go, man, my chest really hurts.

01:57:38.000 My back really hurts.

01:57:40.000 You know, and I would go, Tim, your dad died at like 49 from heart disease.

01:57:48.000 You think you better go to the doctor?

01:57:49.000 I don't want to go.

01:57:51.000 And that's what most guys do.

01:57:53.000 They don't want to go to the fucking doctor.

01:57:54.000 Yep.

01:57:55.000 Yeah.

01:57:56.000 You know.

01:57:57.000 But I do.

01:57:59.000 Does the doctor tell you to stop smoking?

01:58:04.000 All the time.

01:58:05.000 But see, here's the thing about cigarettes.

01:58:11.000 Find something you love and let it kill you.

01:58:16.000 Find something you love and let it kill you.

01:58:26.000 Yeah.

01:58:27.000 I don't know.

01:58:30.000 It's not killing you yet.

01:58:33.000 And I just had a I just had a heart mammogram and all that stuff.

01:58:43.000 And the doctors go, because the heart is shaped like this, you know, like that.

01:58:50.000 And then what happens is that the longer you smoke, it flattens out, and that way it's full of crap.

01:59:00.000 Mine's still like this.

01:59:02.000 And he said, and this is two years ago, he said, well, I'd like to tell you you need to quit smoking, but if you've been smoking as long as I know you have, the only thing that's really happened is that your heart looks like a teenager's and your voice sounds black.

01:59:23.000 Do you think it's because you smoke American spirits?

01:59:25.000 I talked to a doctor that said that to me.

01:59:28.000 Suzanne Humphrey, she was like, I think that one of the things that's killing people is cigarettes with all the additives in it, all the different chemicals that they put.

01:59:36.000 120 chemicals.

01:59:39.000 Crazy.

01:59:41.000 My girlfriend hates that I fucking smoke.

01:59:44.000 Of course, she knew I was smoking when she met me.

01:59:48.000 But now that we've been together for three years, and my wife of 20 years, Elaine, never smoked a cigarette in her life until she met me.

01:59:58.000 And then she started smoking.

01:59:59.000 She, on one hand, just said, well, fuck it. 0.89

02:00:02.000 If you can't beat them, join them.

02:00:03.000 So she started smoking.

02:00:05.000 But Kristen hates cigarettes. 0.98

02:00:10.000 And I don't know what to tell her.

02:00:14.000 Because, you know, I don't do much good, but I'm really a good smoker.

02:00:20.000 Really good ass.

02:00:21.000 What is it they love about cigarettes so much?

02:00:26.000 They're part of me.

02:00:29.000 I don't know how to put it.

02:00:31.000 I mean, I smoked my first cigarette at 10.

02:00:35.000 Wow.

02:00:36.000 10.

02:00:37.000 64 years of smoking.

02:00:39.000 Yeah.

02:00:40.000 That's crazy.

02:00:42.000 And you're okay.

02:00:43.000 I was addicted in high school.

02:00:45.000 Wow.

02:00:46.000 I used to wake up in the morning and my parents had a great big house and I would go down in the basement, go into the fucking storm cellar and smoke, not knowing that I came out of that little area smelling like a cigarette ashtray.

02:01:01.000 Right.

02:01:02.000 And my parents, you know, it was like, have you ever been smoking downstairs?

02:01:05.000 Yeah.

02:01:06.000 But they never said anything.

02:01:09.000 Well, maybe it's better than having the stress of not smoking.

02:01:14.000 One of the things about smoking, and I'm not an advocate.

02:01:17.000 I'm not telling people they should smoke.

02:01:19.000 But maybe one of the things about it is that at least it relaxes you.

02:01:23.000 I think one of the worst things for people is just stress.

02:01:27.000 I was talking about a friend of mine who's going through something pretty heavy right now.

02:01:31.000 And he's had a couple of heart attacks and there's nothing wrong with him.

02:01:35.000 He's had heart attacks just from stress where his fucking arteries just lock up.

02:01:40.000 His whole body is just locked up just from anxiety and stress.

02:01:44.000 And he's had heart attacks because of that.

02:01:46.000 Doesn't smoke, doesn't drink, takes care of himself.

02:01:49.000 And just the problems in his life are so overwhelming.

02:01:54.000 But it's got to be, there's a benefit.

02:01:56.000 There's got to be a benefit to just relaxing, just enjoying something and relaxing and not having that overwhelming.

02:02:04.000 Well, it's amazing how much cigarettes take you away from, because you've got to, you know, nowadays, if you're a cigarette smoker, you know, I'm lucky to be here with you that I could smoke in your area.

02:02:17.000 But most people would go, go outside.

02:02:23.000 But I'll tell you a funny story about Johnny Cash and me.

02:02:30.000 John and I knew each other and I would go down and I would see him in Jamaica and then he got really sick.

02:02:40.000 But John quit smoking and John and I did, did something for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and another funny story.

02:02:55.000 We were standing around doing getting ready to do sound check and there was a whole bunch of people playing, a whole bunch of people.

02:03:04.000 And the Eagles were on sound checking and they were taken forever because John Henley is a perfectionist.

02:03:14.000 Everything's got to be just right.

02:03:16.000 And I was standing with John and June and John was getting irritated because we were like 40 minutes.

02:03:26.000 You know, we'd been standing there ready to sound check for 40 minutes.

02:03:31.000 So while we were standing there, I was smoking and John goes, you're going to have to quit that smoking, John.

02:03:37.000 It's going to catch up with you someday.

02:03:39.000 I said, well, you fucking smoke.

02:03:40.000 And he goes, well, I used to, but I saw this guy from London and he got me to quit smoking.

02:03:48.000 I go, maybe I should see that guy.

02:03:51.000 He goes, okay, yeah, I will.

02:03:53.000 You will.

02:03:54.000 Anyway, so anyway, we finally get on to sound check.

02:04:00.000 And John sound checked without me because I just sang one song with him.

02:04:08.000 And then when it came time to sound check, I went, you know, John, you know, because he was irritated.

02:04:17.000 I don't know if you knew Johnny Cash or not.

02:04:19.000 Yeah.

02:04:19.000 Fucking temper.

02:04:21.000 You know, you didn't fuck with John Cash.

02:04:23.000 You just didn't.

02:04:25.000 Anyway, I said, you know, John, you know, I got this song.

02:04:31.000 And we were doing Ring of Fire.

02:04:33.000 I said, I know that song.

02:04:35.000 It's easy.

02:04:38.000 He said, you sure?

02:04:40.000 And I said, yeah, you know, I got it.

02:04:42.000 I got it.

02:04:43.000 He goes, okay, well, thanks.

02:04:45.000 Because, you know, I'm sick of fucking being here.

02:04:50.000 So the next night we get up there and John comes and he introduces me to my friend John Mellingham.

02:04:59.000 he started some I fell into I didn't realize that he had changed the fucking key from him smoking to a lower key so So I couldn't hit the note because it was I fell into, I fell, I couldn't find a fucking note because it was not the note the song was written in.

02:05:26.000 I sang right along with the song.

02:05:29.000 And I look over there and there's Chuck Berry going.

02:05:36.000 And I look over there and there's Springsteen going.

02:05:39.000 And all these people on the side of the stage, right?

02:05:41.000 And they're all giving me a look like, you're fucking up, man.

02:05:45.000 It was like, yeah, I know it.

02:05:46.000 And so anyway, as soon as the song was over, I ran offstage.

02:05:51.000 I was totally humiliated, right?

02:05:53.000 So I ran offstage and got to my trailer.

02:05:56.000 I just get back there and all of a sudden, knock on the door.

02:06:01.000 And I answer and it's John.

02:06:02.000 And he said, can I come in?

02:06:04.000 And I go, I don't know why you'd want to, but yeah, come on in.

02:06:07.000 He goes, I told you we should have sound checked.

02:06:15.000 Anyway, so that conversation led on to, I know this guy who will get you to quit smoking.

02:06:23.000 And so he gives me all the information.

02:06:26.000 And me and two other guys fly this guy over from London.

02:06:32.000 And Joe, here was his solution for not smoking.

02:06:40.000 He gave me a good talking too.

02:06:42.000 That's it?

02:06:43.000 That was it.

02:06:44.000 I was smoking on the way back to Indiana.

02:06:49.000 My friend Ron White's been smoking his whole life, and he just stopped.

02:06:52.000 And he went to a hypnotist.

02:06:54.000 Same hypnotist.

02:06:55.000 He quit drinking a few years back, went to a hypnotist, quit drinking easy.

02:06:59.000 He said it was so easy.

02:07:00.000 And then just recently, like within last three or four weeks, quit smoking.

02:07:07.000 He's almost 70.

02:07:09.000 Just said the hypnotist got him and said now he doesn't have the desire.

02:07:13.000 He goes, sometimes he goes after sex, he goes after a meal.

02:07:16.000 Sometimes I have like for a brief second.

02:07:18.000 I don't have to worry about that.

02:07:19.000 I'm too old for sex.

02:07:22.000 I don't have to worry about that anymore.

02:07:24.000 Well, I guess Ron still gets after it.

02:07:26.000 Because after that, he said it's just a brief second and then it goes away.

02:07:31.000 Well, I'll tell you, I was friends with the Newman family, and Paul quit smoking and died.

02:07:44.000 Right afterwards?

02:07:46.000 Was the smoking contributing to his health problems?

02:07:49.000 Yeah.

02:07:51.000 And it was just like he was older.

02:07:53.000 It was like, you know, I mean, he was like 80s.

02:07:55.000 I don't know.

02:07:56.000 Can you see how old he was when he died?

02:08:00.000 Anyway, so, you know, I just kind of went.

02:08:06.000 Find what you love and let it kill you.

02:08:08.000 Yeah.

02:08:09.000 Find what you love and let it kill you.

02:08:11.000 83?

02:08:13.000 Yeah.

02:08:14.000 I fucking love that guy.

02:08:15.000 Hustler, one of my favorite movies of all time.

02:08:18.000 Well, I'm really good friends with Joanne, who now is.

02:08:24.000 I love Joanne.

02:08:26.000 Once Paul died, I became her boyfriend.

02:08:31.000 And she and I would talk all the time on the phone.

02:08:36.000 And whenever I was in New York or the town she lives in, north of New York, I'd take her to plays and we'd go to plays and we'd do stuff and I'd pinch her on the ass.

02:08:50.000 And she'd look at me like...

02:08:54.000 But then when I would call her and she started calling me Paul, I would have to go, Joanne.

02:09:02.000 It's not Paul.

02:09:03.000 I'm just John.

02:09:06.000 And now she, I still go see her all the time.

02:09:09.000 Not all the time, not as much as I should.

02:09:12.000 But she, I can't remember the name the fucking town she lives in. 1.00

02:09:17.000 Anyway, she can't talk. 0.99

02:09:20.000 She can't, you know, she has, what do you call it?

02:09:24.000 Dementia.

02:09:25.000 Yeah.

02:09:26.000 Yeah.

02:09:26.000 And she can't talk.

02:09:27.000 And she can, you know, I take my guitar and I'll play and sing for her. 0.59

02:09:33.000 She's a little, God. 0.97

02:09:39.000 But, you know, she's always happy to see me.

02:09:41.000 I think she realizes that it's me.

02:09:45.000 But I love her.

02:09:46.000 I mean, she was just, she was just great.

02:09:51.000 She was a great woman.

02:09:53.000 How I met her was at a Democratic thing for, who was the guy that ran for president, John?

02:09:59.000 John Kerry.

02:10:00.000 John Kerry.

02:10:02.000 And it was at Radio City.

02:10:04.000 And I have a son named HUD.

02:10:07.000 And Paul Newman starred in the movie HUD.

02:10:09.000 And so Newman walked in to my address from him and goes, I'm looking for HUD Mellencamp.

02:10:18.000 And he was with me, but he was running around Radio City somewhere.

02:10:23.000 Have you ever been to Radio City?

02:10:24.000 Yes.

02:10:25.000 Have you ever been backstage?

02:10:26.000 Mm-hmm.

02:10:27.000 There's all kind of shit going on.

02:10:29.000 Yeah.

02:10:29.000 You can go anywhere in that place.

02:10:32.000 Anyway, so Hud was running around there and I just let him go wherever he wants.

02:10:36.000 And I'm sitting there talking to Paul and I think this is pretty cool.

02:10:39.000 And then Joanne walked in and was like, all right, Newman, hey.

02:10:46.000 Because she was beautiful.

02:10:49.000 I mean, Joe, you cannot, she must have been in her late 50s, something like that.

02:10:54.000 She was gorgeous.

02:10:56.000 It's like one of the prettiest women I'd ever seen.

02:10:59.000 And so I just kind of like, well, it's not meeting you, Paul.

02:11:03.000 Hey, Joanne. 1.00

02:11:06.000 And that's how we became friends.

02:11:07.000 And even before he died, her and I were talking on the phone.

02:11:11.000 And, yeah, I love Joanne.

02:11:15.000 I hope she lives forever, but I know that people take care of her.

02:11:20.000 It's sad.

02:11:21.000 It's just hard to see someone in a deteriorated state like that as they get older.

02:11:26.000 Well, you know, have you ever seen the movie, God, I can't say The Fugitive Kind?

02:11:33.000 What is it?

02:11:34.000 The Fugitive Kind.

02:11:36.000 I don't think so.

02:11:37.000 Rogan, you got to watch it.

02:11:39.000 It's great.

02:11:39.000 Yeah.

02:11:40.000 You'll love it.

02:11:43.000 It's called The Fugitive Kind.

02:11:45.000 It stars Brando and Joanne Woodward.

02:11:49.000 And it's just such a, written by Tennessee Williams.

02:11:53.000 It's really, really good.

02:11:55.000 It's one of my favorite movies ever made.

02:11:55.000 Really good.

02:11:57.000 The Fugitive Kind.

02:11:59.000 I'll check it out.

02:12:00.000 Yeah.

02:12:01.000 Yeah.

02:12:02.000 And I know a lot about old movies because I don't watch new movies.

02:12:08.000 If it's not in black and white, I'm not watching it.

02:12:11.000 Really?

02:12:12.000 Yeah.

02:12:12.000 Has it always been the case, or is that a new thing?

02:12:14.000 No.

02:12:15.000 It's always been the really.

02:12:16.000 Yeah.

02:12:18.000 My girlfriend Kristen will talk to me, you know that actor, and I'll go, no.

02:12:26.000 I don't know anybody in the entertainment business anymore except guys my age.

02:12:32.000 That's probably a good thing.

02:12:34.000 But I don't know any of them.

02:12:35.000 You know, I know Sean, you know, but I've known Sean since he was a kid before Richmond High.

02:12:43.000 Oh, wow.

02:12:44.000 That's how long I've known that guy.

02:12:46.000 Wow.

02:12:46.000 That was a fucking great movie.

02:12:48.000 Yeah, it was.

02:12:49.000 They can't make a comedy like that anymore.

02:12:51.000 Oh, no, they couldn't even get it.

02:12:53.000 They wouldn't make it again.

02:12:54.000 Not a chance.

02:12:54.000 No.

02:12:55.000 Not a chance at all.

02:12:56.000 That's the thing with political correctness and then the woke movement.

02:13:00.000 That's the thing that really died was the great comedy movies, the inappropriate.

02:13:05.000 Well, you answer me this question.

02:13:06.000 Yeah.

02:13:07.000 Why did anybody give a shit anyway?

02:13:10.000 I mean, you know, 86, and what was the senator, the guy, the comedian that wrote for Saturday Night Live, who was.

02:13:20.000 Al Franken?

02:13:21.000 Yeah.

02:13:22.000 I just said, fuck you guys.

02:13:23.000 Yeah, should have.

02:13:24.000 Yeah.

02:13:25.000 Yeah.

02:13:25.000 I mean, why did he let some out of it?

02:13:28.000 The climate got crazy.

02:13:29.000 People lost their fucking minds.

02:13:31.000 And I think it's kind of turned around and people are kind of recognizing that it was a massive over-correction.

02:13:37.000 It was.

02:13:37.000 But the problem is the comedy films, like if you go back and watch, you know, like Tropical Thunder or any of those kind of crazy movies that were like really outrageous and funny, like, you know, you can't make them today.

02:13:53.000 Nobody wants to fund them and finance them.

02:13:55.000 Nobody wants the heat.

02:13:56.000 Nobody wants to deal with the criticism.

02:13:58.000 They essentially killed comedy movies.

02:14:01.000 Well, and that's what I was asking you.

02:14:03.000 How is doing stand-up?

02:14:05.000 You can't kill stand-up.

02:14:07.000 The problem is stand-up is like people will come to see you, and that's all that matters.

02:14:11.000 People come to see you and they laugh.

02:14:12.000 That's all that matters.

02:14:14.000 The critics don't matter.

02:14:16.000 Who's your favorite stand-up comedian now?

02:14:18.000 Alive?

02:14:19.000 There's so many good ones right now.

02:14:21.000 I mean, Chappelle's probably the greatest, if one of the greatest of all time, and we're lucky we have him alive now.

02:14:27.000 But, you know, Bill Burr's great.

02:14:30.000 Shane Gillis.

02:14:32.000 It's an amazing time for stand-up.

02:14:34.000 David Tell is probably like the most unheralded great comic that's alive today.

02:14:38.000 There's so many great comedy, so many great comedians now.

02:14:42.000 What about Jim Jeffries?

02:14:43.000 Jim Jeffries is funny.

02:14:46.000 There's a new Australian guy.

02:14:48.000 There's more comics now that are huge than I think have ever been alive in the history of comedy because of YouTube and Instagram and definitely Netflix.

02:15:03.000 Because there's just more comedy to see.

02:15:05.000 There's more comedy to go watch.

02:15:08.000 There's more comics right now are selling out arenas than ever in the history of stand-up comedy.

02:15:14.000 Yeah, I've seen it on television.

02:15:16.000 You just can't worry about what the haters think.

02:15:18.000 You can't worry about that.

02:15:20.000 You just got to just do what you think is funny and what you think the audience is going to think is funny and work real hard at it.

02:15:26.000 That's all you have to do.

02:15:27.000 And just don't pay attention to the criticism.

02:15:30.000 If you do, it'll kill you.

02:15:31.000 The best stand-up comedian movie I ever saw was the first Richard Pryor.

02:15:40.000 Oh, Live on the Sunsets Trip changed my life.

02:15:42.000 Well, that changed my life.

02:15:44.000 That was the third one.

02:15:45.000 Was it?

02:15:46.000 So Wanted was before that, right?

02:15:46.000 Yeah.

02:15:48.000 Yeah, and that took place in New Orleans.

02:15:51.000 Okay, there was one he filmed in Long Beach.

02:15:54.000 That is the one I'm talking about.

02:15:55.000 Phenomenal.

02:15:56.000 Phenomenal.

02:15:57.000 Unbelievable.

02:15:58.000 Phenomenal.

02:15:59.000 Unbelievable.

02:16:00.000 And while he's getting on stage, people are still coming in and sitting down.

02:16:03.000 I know.

02:16:04.000 He's fucking with people as they're coming in and sitting down.

02:16:06.000 I don't think he had an opening act.

02:16:07.000 I think he just came on.

02:16:08.000 He had, yeah, he had the woman's name, the singer.

02:16:08.000 No, he did.

02:16:14.000 Oh, he had a musical opening act?

02:16:16.000 Interesting.

02:16:16.000 Yeah.

02:16:19.000 I can't remember who it was, but he thanked him.

02:16:22.000 He thanked her.

02:16:23.000 Oh, okay.

02:16:24.000 But I saw that in like 19, whatever year, it was 79 when it came out, and I was in Florida.

02:16:33.000 And I had to go into the black part of Miami to see it. 0.98

02:16:40.000 And I took a couple guys in my band with me.

02:16:45.000 And this one guy named Ferd in my band was just an idiot.

02:16:50.000 We walk in there, and there's nothing but black people.

02:16:56.000 So I'm okay.

02:16:57.000 Except Ferd walks in like this.

02:17:01.000 And I go, what the fuck are you doing?

02:17:04.000 What the fuck?

02:17:05.000 He walked in, grabbing his dick.

02:17:07.000 Yeah.

02:17:10.000 Because he wanted to show them that he was Patty De Bell.

02:17:15.000 Yeah, that's who opened up.

02:17:17.000 There it is.

02:17:18.000 Nice.

02:17:19.000 Yeah.

02:17:19.000 So anyway, he's grabbing his dick, walking in, and I'm looking at him going, are you out of your fucking mind?

02:17:26.000 Stop doing that.

02:17:27.000 My parents took me to see Live on the Sunsets Trip when I was a kid.

02:17:30.000 I was in high school.

02:17:31.000 And I guess I was like 15 at the time, something like that.

02:17:35.000 And I remember looking around at all the people laughing, and I couldn't believe how funny it was.

02:17:41.000 I couldn't believe how funny it was.

02:17:42.000 I couldn't believe that this guy could just be on stage talking.

02:17:46.000 And it would be that funny.

02:17:48.000 But I'd seen all these comedy movies that were really funny, but nothing ever made me laugh as hard as this one man on stage talking.

02:17:56.000 I'll never forget it.

02:17:57.000 I was little.

02:17:58.000 I was like looking around the crowd and people were just falling out of their seats, laughing, slapping each other.

02:18:05.000 Couldn't believe how funny it was.

02:18:07.000 Well, you know the backstory on that?

02:18:10.000 What was the backstory?

02:18:12.000 The backstory was that was take two.

02:18:14.000 Oh, yeah, he bombed the first one.

02:18:16.000 Yeah.

02:18:17.000 Well, he, for whatever reason, He decided to do the show backwards.

02:18:24.000 Oh, wow.

02:18:25.000 So he started with, you know, how he ended and was going to work his way forward.

02:18:31.000 And I don't know why he did that, but apparently people that knew him told me that he would always do shit like that.

02:18:39.000 Well, he was creative.

02:18:40.000 I had heard that he was working it out at the comedy store, and then he would come in on a Monday night and it was bombing.

02:18:45.000 And then by Friday night, he was destroying with the same material.

02:18:48.000 He just figured out a way to tweak it.

02:18:50.000 You know, that was back when he was working with Paul Mooney.

02:18:52.000 Paul Mooney was one of his writers who was a guy that I knew really well.

02:18:56.000 I worked with him at the comedy store.

02:18:57.000 And so Mooney and him would just figure out what the beats were.

02:19:00.000 So did you play the comedy store a lot?

02:19:02.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:19:03.000 Yeah, that was my home club in L.A.

02:19:07.000 And how did you go down?

02:19:08.000 I got in, I auditioned in 1994.

02:19:12.000 You know, I came from L.A., I came from New York rather to L.A. to do a sitcom.

02:19:17.000 And I didn't really give a shit about the sitcom.

02:19:19.000 That wasn't really that important to me.

02:19:21.000 I was only doing it for money.

02:19:23.000 But while I was there, I was like, God, I've got to go to the comedy store.

02:19:26.000 When I lived in Boston, when I first started Stand Up in 88, they would talk about the comedy store like it was a religious experience.

02:19:33.000 It was like Mecca.

02:19:33.000 Because this was after Sam Kennison had made it.

02:19:36.000 Of course, Richard Pryor had come from there.

02:19:38.000 Bill Hicks had come from there.

02:19:39.000 David Letterman, so many people had come from there, Robin Williams.

02:19:42.000 And so they just talked about it with like hushed tones, like, man, you got to get to the comedy store.

02:19:47.000 It was like a pilgrimage, like you had to get there.

02:19:50.000 And I got there in 94 and never left, you know, until the pandemic.

02:19:54.000 Yeah, I was friends with Letterman because he's from Indianapolis.

02:20:00.000 And his mom used to come down to my house in Bloomington, and we'd have his mom and his stepdad would come down and have dinner with me at my house.

02:20:11.000 And so Letterman, I did a couple things on Letterman where I cooked a cake with his mom in Indianapolis and brought the cake to David for his birthday.

02:20:25.000 And I like Letterman.

02:20:28.000 He's always been nice to me.

02:20:31.000 And his mom told me a story.

02:20:32.000 I don't know if it's true or not, but I had just released my first album and David was still doing the weather locally in Indianapolis.

02:20:45.000 Oh, wow.

02:20:46.000 And he said to his mom, if that kid can go out and do it, I can too.

02:20:53.000 Oh, wow.

02:20:54.000 That's what his mom said.

02:20:56.000 I don't know if that's true or not.

02:20:58.000 His mom told me that.

02:20:59.000 I never asked David about it.

02:21:00.000 You shouldn't even ask.

02:21:01.000 Let it live in legend.

02:21:03.000 Yeah, I like the story.

02:21:05.000 John, thank you so much, man.

02:21:06.000 This was a lot of fun.

02:21:07.000 It was a real pleasure meeting you.

02:21:08.000 I really enjoyed it, man.

02:21:10.000 And I've been a big fan of yours for years.

02:21:11.000 So this was a real treatment for me.

02:21:13.000 That's great.

02:21:13.000 I'm glad to be here.

02:21:15.000 And I hope you come and see me play.

02:21:18.000 I would love to.

02:21:19.000 I definitely will.

02:21:19.000 Yeah.

02:21:20.000 Is your tour is on your website?

02:21:22.000 Is it johnmellencamp.com or something like that?

02:21:25.000 I don't know.

02:21:27.000 You will find it.

02:21:28.000 We'll find it.

02:21:28.000 Yeah, I don't know.

02:21:29.000 We'll find it.

02:21:30.000 Thank you.

02:21:30.000 Thank you very much.

02:21:31.000 It was really fun.

02:21:32.000 Thank you.

02:21:33.000 All right.

02:21:33.000 And you're going to hate those fucking tattoos.

02:21:35.000 Nope.

02:21:36.000 I don't think so.

02:21:37.000 I like them.

02:21:39.000 Yeah, I thought I liked mine too.

The Joe Rogan Experience - January 14, 2026

Joe Rogan Experience #2438 - John Mellancamp

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