In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, Joe talks to Andrew Yang, a writer, activist, and author about the end of the "woke" movement, and the rise of authoritarianism in the culture war.
00:01:04.000I mean, I was trying to, in that book, I'm trying to make the point that what woke was, was like a kind of the latest manifestation of a kind of innate authoritarian impulse.
00:01:13.000I think human beings are by default quite inclined towards just shutting people up if they don't like them.
00:02:47.000You say you're talking about, let's make everything inclusive, but what you really mean is let's exclude anyone who disagrees with what we've got to say.
00:02:54.000So you're using language to mean the exact opposite.
00:03:04.000So it's all about misusing language because most people I think, or I like to think, are pretty decent.
00:03:11.000Most people want to be kind and want to be fair.
00:03:13.000And when you hear these activists saying, be kind, be compassionate, or else, right?
00:03:18.000You know, you kind of think, okay, well, maybe their intentions are good, but also they're pretty scary.
00:03:24.000I mean, there's a weird, there was a weird thing with the woke thing, which was that on the one hand, it proclaimed to be this sort of great, virtuous, kind, progressive, right side of history.
00:03:37.000And at the same time, they're like dangerous dogs.
00:03:39.000Like, you're like, oh, I better not piss them off.
00:03:42.000I better not say the wrong thing in the workplace because they'll destroy you.
00:03:46.000Well, I always find that the most preposterous the idea is and the least capable it is to stand up to scrutiny, the more violent the enforcement of that idea will be because you cannot combat that.
00:04:00.000You can't defend that idea with logic, so you have to defend it with fear and force and just shouting people down.
00:04:08.000And that's it's a natural impulse of human beings.
00:04:12.000Like when you're arguing with a kid, you know, when you're a kid and you're arguing with a kid and you say something, you don't even know, you shut the fuck up.
00:04:20.000So why is it, though, that some countries and some societies seem to protect themselves better than others against that impulse?
00:04:27.000And I feel at the moment that the UK is kind of failing where America is to a degree succeeding, not obviously in all ways, but when it comes to the idea of freedom and free speech, like I think UK has pretty far has pretty fallen to the kind of the woke insistence that you need to control people's language so that you can create this perfect society which can never come anyway.
00:04:50.000I think whatever organic version of that emerges naturally from society where people want, where there's an overcorrection, I think in the UK, because you guys don't have free speech laws, because it's just different over there.
00:05:45.000Well, we also think something happened where your leaders are intentionally trying to tank your country.
00:05:52.000It seems like they're trying to bring in as many migrants as possible, cater to them, not to the British people, and do it openly so that everyone knows what they're doing and then create chaos on the streets because of it.
00:06:06.000Yeah, I mean, people have a phrase for that, anarcho-tyranny, you know, where you punish people who aren't breaking the law, but you protect those who are.
00:06:14.000I think with the, I mean, I don't know the extent that Americans know the, I mean, the stat you quoted, that came from the Times newspaper in London, which did a freedom information request to the police, found out that it's 12,000 a year on average.
00:06:26.000So that's like 30 a day, not just being investigated or looked into, but being arrested.
00:06:31.000But over the last few years only, if you go back, it's only like 1,000 or 500.
00:06:37.000It was 3,000 last time we spoke, back in 2023, was it really?
00:06:49.000I mean, we had stuff like the old stories of like, there was that guy in 2010 who made a joke online about, he was at Doncaster Airport in the UK.
00:06:57.000He said, oh, if this queue doesn't hurry up, I'm going to blow up the airport.
00:07:47.000And there's one, I think it's in the Malicious Communications Act, where it talks about needless anxiety, causing needless anxiety can get you arrested.
00:10:47.000I can't remember what the other two were.
00:10:49.000Because I remember I looked at them, I thought, well, that's not even worth, that's not even worth thinking about.
00:10:53.000But this one was the one that really, because they say in England, you're stirring up hatred against minorities through the spreading of the meme.
00:11:19.000And it didn't seem important 20 years ago or 30 years ago because no one ever looked at England as being that kind of a country that would just put people.
00:11:28.000Well, obviously, this was all pre-social media.
00:11:54.000I've forgotten about this, but now you've mentioned it.
00:11:56.000They wanted to introduce this law so that, for instance, if you're working in a bar or a pub and you overhear someone who says something against your protected characteristic, say you're a gay barman, and someone says, oh, I don't like the gays or something, and you overhear it, your employer has a duty to protect you from that kind of hate speech, that kind of harm.
00:12:13.000So therefore, there's going to be a blanket ban on speech, on certain kinds of speech within the pub, right?
00:12:20.000I would say the guy who's eavesdropping, he's the problem, right?
00:12:23.000You shouldn't be listening in on other people's conversations.
00:12:27.000And I guess it all comes down to this view, which I think is completely wrong, that words and violence are the same thing, that words can create a more violent society, that there's a direct causal link between the stuff that people say and the stuff that people say online to how people behave in the real world.
00:12:44.000And I think you guys have got it right, because you've got the Brandenburg test.
00:12:47.000You know about the test for incitement to violence in the US.
00:12:52.000It's basically a test that was established, I think, back in the 60s.
00:12:55.000It was a KKK leader called Clarence Brandenburg who was prosecuted for incitement to violence.
00:13:00.000And the test that was established since that precedent was that any words that can be convicted for incitement to violence, they have to be intended to cause violence, likely to cause violence, and the violence must be imminent.
00:13:13.000And if you satisfy that threshold, you can be prosecuted in the US for incitement to violence.
00:13:18.000So it'd be like kind of imagine a demagogue surrounded by all his fans, whipping up a frenzy and then pointing to a guy on the front row and saying, kill him now.
00:13:25.000That would qualify for the Brandenburg test.
00:13:28.000But in the UK, because we don't have that test, all we've got is whether people found it offensive.
00:13:35.000That's the difference of the threshold.
00:13:37.000So it's a massive difference between what the US has and what the UK has.
00:13:41.000I mean, to give the most obvious recent example, because I don't know if people know about this, there's a woman called Lucy Connolly in the UK.
00:13:49.000I don't know if this was reported over here at all.
00:13:51.000Do you remember we had all these riots last year during the summer against hotels which were housing asylum seekers and people were setting fire to them?
00:13:59.000There were genuinely racist stuff going on during those riots.
00:14:03.000And this was off the back of a guy who'd murdered a bunch of little girls in a dance class.
00:14:08.000And there were rumors going around that this was an asylum seeker, right?
00:14:11.000And this one woman, a mother, who'd lost her daughter, very sensitive about the idea of Lucy Connolly, very sensitive about the idea of loss of kids.
00:14:19.000She tweeted in a fit of anger, go and burn down all the hotels for all I care.
00:16:06.000Also, aren't you kind of letting them off?
00:16:07.000Like, if someone goes and commits an act of violence and said, oh, I did it because someone told me to do it, aren't you kind of letting them off the hook?
00:16:27.000So do you, I think the safest approach is to say people are responsible for their own actions.
00:16:33.000I think the best that you could say is when political leaders and people with clout say things like that, it'd say, you know, it's fine to go out and commit violence.
00:16:42.000I think what they do is they create a kind of imprimatur of approval.
00:16:46.000They create this kind of sense that if you do it, the people in charge will have your back.
00:17:03.000I mean, I've been saying for a long time the BBC has a real, like what I will say in the BBC's defense is they've always been pretty good at being party politically neutral.
00:17:12.000Like they will interrogate someone in the right and someone in the left in a pretty neutral way.
00:17:18.000They don't, I think they do pretty good.
00:17:19.000I know people will be annoyed at me for saying that, but I think they do.
00:17:22.000But I think in terms of the ideology, the woke ideology, they got captured.
00:17:25.000They have a thing at the BBC called the LGBT desk, or they had it up until recently, which could veto any news story, which meant that any story that was slightly critical of transactivism or anything like that just didn't get reported.
00:17:38.000So I'm not surprised that the BBC gave them veto power?
00:17:44.000This all came out in a report, quite a recent report just a few months ago, which led to the resignation of Tim David, the director general.
00:17:49.000And he resigned ostensibly because of that Trump clip, which, by the way, that wasn't the first time they did it.
00:17:55.000There was another clip about a year before in a different program that did the same thing, took the clip, re-edited it, and made it look like he had said something he absolutely had not said.
00:18:06.000So I think the BBC quite obviously has an ideological bias, if not a party political bias.
00:19:28.000They left like 45 minutes or something like so he said something crazy like that.
00:19:32.000Yeah, he said it made him look like he was saying go and commit the He was in tongue-in-cheek talking about the very fine center, that they're doing a great job, the senators and congresspeople and said all this other stuff.
00:19:48.000It's so weird that you have to fight like hell to keep your country.
00:19:51.000I mean, no offense, but you can find daft stuff that Trump says pretty easily, right?
00:19:56.000You don't need to edit that stuff down.
00:19:58.000Well, it's because they had an opportunity to, like what we were saying before earlier, we were talking before the show, you can put out a narrative and it doesn't have to be true, and then that's the one that sticks.
00:21:07.000Like, that was the whole point about, you know, the trial where he got arrested and convicted of 34 counts that are a felony, none of which are actually a felony.
00:22:08.000One of the key things that I think has happened over the past few years is this complete lack of fealty to the truth from both sides.
00:22:15.000It's whatever is convenient matters more.
00:22:17.000A complete lack of intellectual curiosity.
00:22:19.000A complete lack of investigating and looking and thoroughly checking.
00:22:23.000And by the way, with the BBC, that really matters because unlike the news media here, which can be as partisan as it likes, the BBC is the state broadcaster.
00:22:31.000It's got a responsibility by charter to not be, you know, to be balanced, to be even-handed.
00:23:07.000Well, why don't you pause for a minute and assess whether or not that conviction is sound or whether it was politically motivated or how helpful that is.
00:23:20.000Like if you do that, look, right now in the United States, the media predominantly leans left except for Fox News, the mainstream large-scale media.
00:23:31.000I guess CBS is probably going to lean more right now.
00:23:35.000It seems like it's in the process of that.
00:23:37.000But for the most part, when you watch CNN, if you watch MSNBC, if you watch the mainstream news, it's very left-leaning.
00:23:45.000But if the fucking, if right-wing people started, if it was like more common for the news to be right-leaning, and then they started doing the exact same thing about a left-leaning candidate.
00:24:12.000When I was a kid, it was famously the case of the ADL defending Nazis having the right to protest and saying, look, we think what they're saying is abhorrent, but it's very important that you get the right to say whatever you feel.
00:24:25.000And then the way to combat that is with much better, more concise speech that's much more logical and makes sense.
00:24:40.000That very thing that you've identified, that the left used to be about this.
00:24:43.000The left used to be all about, I mean, that example you mentioned of Skokie, wasn't it, in Chicago, the Nazis marching through Skokie and the ACLU saying, we're defending this.
00:24:52.000There was a book by a guy called Aya Neyer, who was the head of the ACLU, called Defending My Agency.
00:26:08.000Look what you've done for this short-term victory.
00:26:11.000You're essentially tanking civilization for a decade where we have to sort this out and like let the ship wash itself back and forth until it writes.
00:26:21.000Yeah, so and how do you ensure that it's not going to happen to you?
00:26:25.000There was a national conservative conference in Brussels about a year and a half ago.
00:26:29.000The local mayor said, I don't like this.
00:26:31.000And he had the police rush it, shut it down.
00:26:33.000And you had mainstream right-wing figures like Nigel Farage, Sawala Bravman.
00:26:38.000How do they not think, hang on a minute, if we establish that precedent where you can just shut down your political opponents through the use of police force, how will that not rebound on me?
00:27:01.000Even if you hate the guy, if there's a real crime that you can get someone, but when you take a crime like the bookkeeping stuff and turn it into a felony that could put this man in jail for the rest of his life for doing something that turns out to be legal, you can pay people to shut up.
00:27:17.000And this is so, it's just, it's so weird that people for this short-term gain are willing to tank, which is essentially this whole structure of our civilization that allows free discourse.
00:27:32.000So important to be able to communicate and talk.
00:27:34.000If podcasts didn't exist, there was no way to talk through ideas other than mainstream news, we would still be stuck in some very bizarre 1990s or 1980s narrative about how the world works.
00:27:59.000I mean, we've had like people in left-leaning papers in the UK calling for Elon Musk to be arrested because he's allowing free speech on X or Twitter, whatever you want to call it.
00:28:31.000What are the suspected offenses including unlawful data extraction and complicity in the possession of child pornography?
00:28:41.000Yeah, but that's not what this is about.
00:28:42.000This is because people have been misusing Grok to like, put bikinis on women they like, or even, in a few horrible cases, creating child, child sexual.
00:28:59.000I mean, unless there's like some sort of a loophole where you could get it to do it.
00:29:04.000Among potential crimes it said it would investigate where complicity in possession or organized distribution of images of children of a pornographic nature, infringement of people's image rights with sexual deep fakes okay, the sexual deep fakes, yeah.
00:29:17.000So sexual deepfakes is like if you put Hillary Clinton in a bikini and made her hot, that's a sexual deep fake.
00:29:23.000Okay right, fraudulent data extraction by an organized group I think you can still do some of that stuff.
00:29:29.000You can put people in bikinis yeah, I think you can do that.
00:29:32.000So like if you wanted to take Shaquille O'neal and put him in a bikini, you could say you're sexualizing him okay yeah, I mean, I guess you can do that.
00:29:42.000You know, recently Kier Starma, prime minister Uk, said he wanted to, was considering, or not necessarily.
00:29:47.000He was going to ban X, but it wasn't off the table.
00:29:49.000It's something like he, as though he's going to do that.
00:29:52.000But this is always the excuse like yeah, we're protecting children right and, and look, no one wants that sort of stuff, right?
00:29:58.000No one wants deep fakes of kids, obviously.
00:30:01.000But there's far I mean looking at the stats on that there's far more child sexual exploitation on snapchat, for instance.
00:30:07.000But they don't go after snapchat because snapchat isn't the form where Kier Starmer is getting criticized every single day and brutally hauled over the coals by by people checking his facts.
00:30:16.000One of the best things about X recently is the community notes checking, checking journalists and politicians in real time with facts.
00:31:20.000Because that doesn't really solve it because you could, unless, I mean, there's no operation, but if she's gone through a surgery, then you could show a picture and it's probably pretty realistic, especially when was the last time you saw a 70-year-old lady's cooter?
00:33:32.000she basically says in the book that it's important that it should be true and therefore And in fact, the book opens with a picture of Shakespeare as a black woman, which was drawn by the author.
00:34:32.000Okay, so who is this woman that they're saying actually was Shakespeare?
00:34:37.000So she's called Amelia Lanya or Amelia Bassano.
00:34:40.000And one of the arguments is that Shakespeare at the time, if she was a woman, wouldn't have been able to get published because women couldn't get published.
00:35:19.000She's just sort of rehashing it now for this identitarian post-woke world where we're all like, we're desperate for Shakespeare to be a black woman.
00:36:13.000The key point about Shakespeare is if you're going to say it wasn't the guy who everyone thought it was, you have to answer one key question.
00:36:18.000Why does everyone who knew Shakespeare, wrote about Shakespeare, say that it was?
00:36:52.000So he, we're going back like 60, 70 years or something, but he came up with this idea that Shakespeare was actually an aristocrat called Edward de Vere, the Earl of Oxford.
00:36:59.000Problem is, Edward De Vere died in 1604.
00:37:39.000Because Shakespeare was a middle class, lower middle class, not very rich, didn't go to university, came from the Midlands, you know, up and coming guy who and they say, well, how could someone like that write about kings and lords and ladies?
00:38:13.000So it's like, okay, there has to be like some guy who or some woman who's like grinding, drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes alone in their apartment to write something that's brilliant.
00:40:09.000So there's a book on there's a bizarre connection between a lot of the countercultural figures of the 1960s and the intelligence community.
00:40:19.000One of them is Jim Morrison's father was like a high-ranking military officer.
00:40:24.000And then there's different people from different bands that were like a key part of the countercultural movement that all have parents that were either in intelligence communities or closely connected to it.
00:40:37.000Like a society scenes inside the canyon.
00:40:43.000Is it crazy as in like the revelations are crazy or that it's just not true?
00:40:47.000Well, they make some broad leaps, right?
00:40:51.000So there's a lot of, and then a year later, he died in mysterious circumstances, or a year later, he died from suicide, or a year later, he died from an overdose.
00:40:59.000You're hanging out with a bunch of people that are doing drugs all the time, and they're all ne'er-dwells, and they're all hanging out in Laurel Canyon.
00:41:06.000If you don't know Laurel Canyon, Laurel Canyon, at least at the time, I mean, when I first moved to Hollywood, it's like all the weirdos would live in Laurel Canyon.
00:41:15.000Like, all the weirdos were like right there above Hollywood, and there was all these crazy parties up there.
00:42:58.000You're out running around with your friends, smoking cigarettes and fucking drinking, and you're in a band, and it turns out you got a lot of angst and pain because you're being neglected as a child because your dad works 16 hours a day trying to fuck the country over.
00:43:51.000Core move is to group Morrison's father with other Laurel Canyon musicians' parents who worked in military, defense, or intelligence-linked roles and to frame this as evidence of a broader covert program around the 1960s rock scene.
00:45:47.000The so what of it is that there wasn't that many of them to begin with, and just they all happen to be in this.
00:45:51.000But you know what I think with all of this stuff again and again, the pattern is either there's gaps, there's gaps in what we know, and people decide to fill them in themselves because there's a kind of comfort to that.
00:46:02.000There's also some kind of comfort with, I know something that no one else does.
00:46:25.000And then you get to the end and you think, what the hell did I just read?
00:46:27.000And it's that thing of you can marshal any kind of half-baked fact or any, you can marshal certain things that we can see and fill in the gaps yourself and lead to a crazy conclusion.
00:46:38.000What concerns me isn't so much that people do that because people have done that forever, as long as they've been human beings, is that now people are leaping at it and falling for it in a way that I haven't seen.
00:50:01.000And that's what they did with Charles Manson.
00:50:03.000And that's the book Chaos by Tom O'Neill, which is a brilliant book, which is very well documented and details Jolly West and his influence on the Manson family and how they were influencing these people to try to sabotage the hippie movement.
00:50:16.000So the hippie movement was this change in culture where all of a sudden people were rejecting the war movement.
00:50:21.000They were rejecting, you know, they were free love and they were doing acid and people were freaking out.
00:50:26.000Their kids were just disappearing and following the Grateful Dead around.
00:50:30.000And they took this guy, Charles Manson, this very charismatic con man.
00:50:35.000They taught him how to dose people up with acid and influence them, and they got them to commit murders.
00:50:41.000But there is evidence for this, right?
00:50:43.000So you're talking about a book that is researched.
00:50:46.000But you're being logical, and you're correct.
00:50:51.000But what I'm saying is, because of that, people go, well, what else?
00:50:56.000And so then they make these big leaps, like Jimi Hendrix is a CIA creation.
00:51:27.000I think we should stop saying it's the fallout of the woke movement.
00:51:30.000I think we should start saying it's a natural pattern that human beings automatically fall into in order to support their belief systems and enforce their particular ideology over whatever opposing ideology is.
00:52:32.000But what I don't think you should therefore do, like I'm all for being skeptical about people in authority, academics, politicians, journalists, they've all lied.
00:52:40.000But that firstly doesn't mean that all experts and all journalists and all people have lied because there have been some good ones all the way.
00:52:45.000But also that doesn't mean that you automatically leap to any conclusion, evidence-free, that jumps before you without some kind of critical analysis.
00:52:55.000The same thing that you're criticizing those people for failing at, you're falling into the same trap yourself.
00:53:22.000Yeah, but don't you think that all of us in the right circumstances could end up falling 100%, but I'm not in those circumstances currently.
00:53:28.000But I like to believe, and maybe it's a naivety on my part, but I like to believe that most people have a kind of natural intellectual curiosity.
00:53:38.000If they stop for a moment and think and don't just trust instinct over reason, I think we're all capable of it.
00:53:46.000I just think we're not all realizing it.
00:54:02.000And they're set in their ways and they have no desire to change at all.
00:54:06.000And so they've been living a dumb life for 50 plus years.
00:54:10.000You can't all of a sudden say, hey, Mark, I want you to be logical and introspective and think about this thing and analyze it and for what it really is.
00:54:17.000Instead of holding on to your ideological beliefs that you've kind of locked yourself into and you identify with and any attacks on those is an attack on you personally, I want you to just, let's look at the facts.
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00:55:32.000But you saying that sounds very persuasive to me.
00:55:40.000fucking liberals bullshit with your fucking you're just a fucking they'll come up with some sort of king charles the third is a goat yeah You're controlled opposition or you're a useful idiot or they'll put a label on you.
00:55:54.000I've been called, I've been told I get dark money.
00:57:23.000So I, what had happened was, you know, Charlie Kirk's tour was planned to go all the way through, and this was the last date, the Berkeley date.
00:57:31.000And after his assassination, various people went and did the shows because they said, because Turning Point rightly said, we're not going to give an assassin the veto of our tour.
00:57:47.000So I've been, this is how I escaped from the UK, I should say.
00:57:51.000So me and Graham Linnehan, who you've had on your show, comedy writer, my comedy writing partner and friend Martin Gourlay, the three of us, we decided that things were so bad in the UK, we'd rather write and do creative stuff in America.
00:58:06.000Rob Schneider, who I'd met many years ago, he said, come on over.
00:58:19.000So we've been able to, you know, we, and look, I don't want to do down the UK or say, but what I will just say is the creative industries there are pretty stagnant.
00:59:01.000And one of them was just, it was something like, ladies, if a guy's in your changing room or in your bathroom, scream, make a fuss, call the police.
00:59:08.000If all else fails, kick him in the balls.
00:59:10.000And it's obviously a wry way of saying, look, the guy's got genitals, the guy's...
01:01:02.000But like I've been in two different theatres in London, I've had the same experience of standing at the bar with a woman complaining because there's men pissing in her toilet and they're doing nothing about it.
01:01:14.000Because all the theaters in London have made it all gender neutral.
01:02:32.000So this was actually after Trump's election.
01:02:34.000So she said, I just fired my immigrant housekeeper because even though I'd educated her about the evils of Donald Trump, she still voted for him.
01:02:41.000There's no place for racism in my house.
01:04:46.000So what it's doing is it's saying, because this is a news story that could be deemed anti-immigrant, or this is a news story that is politically sensitive, I'm not going to let you see it.
01:04:55.000Was this in America you were doing this?
01:07:46.000Also, the Vikings came and marauded and raped and set higher villages, but at least they were diverse.
01:07:50.000Hey, you know, at least they had a broad range of ethnicities, right?
01:07:54.000But I mean, we're nearing a time in America where white people are not the majority anymore.
01:08:00.000So at what point in time does that stop?
01:08:02.000And we just call people what they are, just people.
01:08:04.000But doesn't it bother you a bit that the thing about that kind of thing is this, as I said, this obsession with group identity, which is so of our time, what it now actually means is the revision of history.
01:08:16.000If you're going to revise history and say, oh, actually, you've seen all these sort of period dramas set in England.
01:08:21.000There was a black Anne Boleyn, as they went, Henry VIII would have married a black woman.
01:08:32.000What I'm saying is, you can do anything with colourblind casting.
01:08:34.000Colourblind casting has never really particularly bothered me, but it's when you are in a, if you're playing hyper-realism, if you're playing verisimilitude, you want people to buy into the reality of it, and you're suddenly populating Edwardian England or pre-Edwardian England as an ethnically diverse place, which it wasn't.
01:08:50.000I'm not saying black people weren't there, but they were very, very, very small minority.
01:08:53.000Isn't that a problem in the new Odyssey?
01:09:30.000But the thing about the Greek, the thing about Helen of Troy, who probably didn't exist, I mean, even the Greeks knew she probably didn't even exist.
01:10:00.000It's all very well saying Greeks and Mediterranean people and pure white.
01:10:05.000But Helen of a Troy is a very specific.
01:10:07.000And it's actually quite important to the plot.
01:10:11.000And again, if you're doing a, look, for instance, when they did the all-black Wizard of Oz, The Wiz, I imagine that in the late 60s would have been quite radical and fun.
01:10:20.000And wow, I can't believe they did that.
01:11:25.000And actually, the abolitionists, the Thomas Henry Huxleys of the world, the people who had to fight for racial equality and parity, they had something to fight against.
01:12:16.000Then a major male character turns up, played by a woman who calls herself non-binary.
01:12:22.000And not only are we meant to believe that that's a man, the characters don't notice that it's a woman in man's clothes.
01:12:31.000So we're meant to believe that these characters don't even, like not one person, Ripley doesn't say, why is she wearing a, why is she wearing a suit?
01:12:41.000So I think if they wanted to change the novel and create a kind of, you know, like one of those butch dykes of the day who used to go for sort of like.
01:13:20.000It creates homophobia, transphobia, and racism.
01:13:24.000Because it doesn't create it, but it makes them feel like they have a point.
01:13:28.000Well, you've seen recently that the polls regarding gay rights in the US seem to be going down, tumbling support for gay rights, support for gay marriage.
01:13:37.000We've had, I think, a number of states trying to overturn the gay marriage legislation.
01:13:42.000And the reason for all of that, I think, is because being gay has been tied to this LGBTQIA identity-obsessed movement that has also involved the medicalization of kids, sterilization of kids, twerking in front of children, all of that stuff.
01:13:58.000And now people are saying, this is because you gave us gay marriage.
01:14:01.000This is because you let the gays marry.
01:14:02.000And because of that, you've allowed all this other stuff.
01:14:05.000You've opened this box and everything else has tumbled out.
01:14:08.000That's not true because the fundamental point about the belief in gender identity is it is fundamentally anti-gay as a principle.
01:14:17.000Because what it says is, I know I'm telling you something you already know, but like gay rights was predicated on the idea that there's a minority of people in every society who are attracted innately to their own biological sex.
01:14:29.000If you say biological sex doesn't matter, and actually you're attracted to a kind of gendered soul, you're attracted to an essence, you're attracted to how someone identifies.
01:14:38.000Well, firstly, you don't know gay people if you think that's the case.
01:14:40.000They're not attracted to how you see yourself.
01:14:44.000They know gay men, I don't want to be crude, know what a penis is, right?
01:14:56.000And not only that, then you get, you know, like in Australia at the moment, lesbians are not allowed to gather legally if there's a man who says he's a lesbian and wants to join them.
01:15:04.000That is against the law in Australia now.
01:18:18.000So this is the other reason why I think the movement is essentially anti-gay.
01:18:24.000Because, you know, the Tavistock Pediatric Clinic in London, which was an NHS gender clinic, which has been closed as a result of the CAS review, this report into pediatric gender care.
01:18:35.000They found, there's a book by Hannah Barnes called Time to Think, which found that between 80 and 90% of all adolescents referred to that clinic were same-sex attracted.
01:18:43.000So they were either gay or lesbian or bisexual.
01:18:46.000Now, that means you've effectively got gay conversion therapy going on on the NHS.
01:18:51.000And so, you know, I had, you know, I'm friends with a couple of lesbians who run the LGB Alliance in London.
01:18:57.000They have an annual conference for gay rights, and they're talking about gay rights.
01:19:00.000You know, these young, non-binary identified people broke in, unleashed locusts and crickets and insects, a plague of fucking locusts into a gay rights conference.
01:19:12.000Isn't that the sort of thing neo-Nazis used to do?
01:21:11.000The horrible thing about these cases is not just that these children have had their lives ruined by these surgeries and have been sterilized.
01:21:19.000It's also that they've been attacked so ruthlessly.
01:21:24.000You mean you're talking about children that have made a mistake or someone coerced them into making this mistake that's changed their body for the rest of their life and they're getting attacked online.
01:21:36.000Like you imagine being a fragile child already who's willing to go through this procedure, can't believe they did it.
01:21:56.000This came to an end because of lawsuits.
01:21:59.000When they realized that these psychotherapists have been using these leading questions, effectively telling them you've repressed the memory.
01:22:06.000You know, there was that book, The Courage to Heal, where it said, if you think you might have been abused, you probably were.
01:22:27.000Hysteria can collapse if you actually money talks.
01:22:30.000You know when society shifted in this general direction because of Elon buying Twitter.
01:22:35.000When Elon bought Twitter, the amount of trans-identified kids started to drop off.
01:22:40.000The amount of non-binary identified kids started to drop off right, and that, I think, is a direct result of people being able to say what they really think.
01:22:47.000Think because in the past, like my friend, Megan Murphy, she was banned off of Twitter until Elon bought it because she said, a man is never a woman.
01:22:58.000She was arguing with people about biological males who identify as women, being able to get into women's spaces, and she said, a man is never a woman.
01:23:09.000And if there's no real discourse, then you can push a goofy ideology pretty fucking far.
01:23:14.000But as soon as people jump on board and start posting funny memes and and Elon says it's open season, do whatever you want yeah, and he calls it the woke mind virus and everybody's like piling in well, then you have discourse and then anything that's absurd immediately gets shot down because people say no, this doesn't make any sense.
01:23:38.000You said about if you unless you I mean, I just saw today just on you know, obviously on twitter because i'm always on it but I saw John Lithgow you know the actor, brilliant actor, who plays Dumbledore in the New Harry Potter thing saying that Jk Rowling's views are inexplicable.
01:23:51.000Inexplicable it means you haven't read them.
01:23:54.000Like Jk Rowling yeah, is for women's rights and she recognizes that women's rights depend on the recognition of biological sex, for the preservation of single-sex spaces.
01:24:05.000All he has to do is read the essay she wrote on her blog like eight years ago.
01:24:09.000He can't even, he's not even sufficiently intellectual cure, intellectually curious to do that and he goes out and says it's inexplicable.
01:24:15.000Women's rights and gay rights are inexplicable.
01:24:18.000Really, or are you just not having the conversation?
01:24:20.000You're just shutting yourself up and saying my friends have said she's evil nah, criticized hard enough, but would be criticized if he supported Jk Rowlings?
01:24:29.000If he supported Jk Rowlings, he would be attacked.
01:25:01.000They come to, they come to I I, I and I, I.
01:25:04.000I get so sick of it because I know in America it's much better, but in the Uk, all of like my old friends from the comedy circuit who tell me No one's self-censoring.
01:25:21.000This week, Leo Kurtz, a friend of mine, had one of his shows on his tour just deleted because some activists complained to the venue, right?
01:25:27.000So it's happening all the time, and they're ignoring this Himalayan mountain of evidence.
01:28:03.000When you sort of can't, like, I think an artist should be able to do what they want.
01:28:07.000And I think if you want to, like, they do it with Shakespeare all the time.
01:28:09.000Sorry to go back to Shakespeare, but you rarely go and see a Shakespeare play today that hasn't been filtered through the prism of identity politics and changed in the world.
01:29:51.000Which is a lot of the proponents of a revising of the beginning of civilization are now pointing to Turkey as opposed to like Iraq.
01:30:05.000Well, the Greeks were everywhere, you know, so the Mesopotamians and the, I mean, that doesn't surprise me.
01:30:09.000I mean, I think the point I was making about Helen of Troy is that even if it's not real, even if it's not history, the myth of Helen of Troy means something quite significant within that story.
01:30:18.000So if you subvert that, the fundamental aspects of the story itself doesn't work and you can't buy into the myth.
01:32:09.000So one of the things you do when you go to Thailand is you take care of them first before you roll.
01:32:14.000You don't just hop on them, you feed them.
01:32:16.000So you give them a bunch of sugar cane and you pet them and they teach you to like so that the animal understands you have a gentle spirit.
01:33:40.000It's like going to, you know, like in the Elizabethan era, they used to go to Bedlam to watch the people who were mad as an entertainment thing.
01:33:46.000It felt a little bit like we were doing that.
01:33:48.000I have far too much appreciation for the wild.
01:33:51.000You know, I have animals that are contained at my house, but they have been watered down by selective breeding to the point where they can't even like I have a King Charles Spaniel.
01:35:06.000But you know, these sorts of pleasures, you know, life with animals and this sort of thing is going to matter more and more to us, I think, when the robots take over.
01:35:52.000Well, that's a good point, though, isn't it?
01:35:53.000So all the stuff I've been reading at the moment about AI is saying that AI won't wipe us out because it'll see us in the way we see animals and way we see pets.
01:36:01.000Is that, well, we think you're sweet and stupid, but we like having you around.
01:36:30.000But if it makes your life measurably better and it's a simple procedure that's non-invasive, you know, it's like a simple thing that they plug into the back end.
01:36:41.000Well, you would probably be connected to artificial intelligence and it would greatly enhance your cognitive function and greatly enhance your access to information.
01:36:55.000You would just have all the information.
01:36:57.000It would just completely change the way you store information because you would probably have some sort of an external hard drive that connects to you.
01:37:06.000It would be something where your memory is no longer fallible, but it's now infallible.
01:40:57.000And so then there was a fight recently between Michael Johnson and Alexander Hernandez, which is a fight I was really looking forward to, that was canceled last minute.
01:41:19.000Nope, didn't rig it because the FBI was informed.
01:41:22.000I believe they were informed, but the UFC was informed and the UFC pulled the fight.
01:41:27.000So they said, because of this suspicious betting activity, because a lot of late minute money came in on this one guy to win, we're going to pull this fight from the card and not allow this fight to take place and do a thorough investigation because something seems wrong because of the previous fight that they know was fixed.
01:41:44.000But fighters have been doing that for ages, haven't they?
01:41:46.000I mean, that's a thing that they've always done.
01:41:48.000How does that connect then to the AI element that this website?
01:42:58.000But the fact that they know about it and they know it's happening, that means they'll be able to crack down on it.
01:43:02.000But I don't know because there's a lot of, there's so many options and possibilities.
01:43:08.000Like unless you make a gigantic score and people start getting suspicious, if you're not greedy about it and you're kind of sneaking around a little bit here and a little bit there, I bet you could probably make a lot of money doing that.
01:43:18.000But you think fighters and people like that and sports people generally, I mean, they're too proud, aren't they, to let something like that go just in case, just for money?
01:44:04.000But isn't fighting like a kind of vocation, like a creative vocation for a lot of people?
01:44:08.000Well, it is creative, believe it or not, because movement is creative.
01:44:13.000You know, when you're fighting, you're not just running at each other, some guys do, but the really good guys don't just run at each other in charge.
01:44:23.000There's certain things that they're doing where they're reading your movement and trying to guide you in a particular direction and set you up.
01:44:47.000It's just why, like, was it Faye Dunaway?
01:44:49.000No, was it, who was it that said, you know, the older woman that said, and we're talking about the arts, and I don't mean mixed martial arts.
01:46:34.000Because I think this encapsulates all of the stuff you were talking about, which is that I was going to this, basically Charlie Kirk's tour.
01:47:25.000He's covered in blood because he was wearing a t-shirt with turning point written on it.
01:47:29.000And I'm suddenly realizing, you know what?
01:47:32.000This is a fantasy world that we're now occupying.
01:47:34.000We're now occupying a world where the people outside think the world is this and what's going on inside is completely disconnected from it.
01:47:41.000And I actually found it quite depressing because when I was sitting on stage talking to Rob and Peter Boghossian and Frank Turek, these people of completely different viewpoints, we're just having a chat.
01:47:50.000Outside, they're smashing things, they're screaming, they're saying that fascists have overrun the university.
01:47:56.000And I'm thinking, just to come back to that point you made about, you know, that need for discussion, that experience made me think, actually, now what's happening is we're living in two separate worlds at the same time.
01:48:08.000And we can't see what the other side is, what the intentions of the other side are.
01:48:13.000And I don't know how you resolve that.
01:48:14.000I think that's that to me sort of encapsulated the entire problem.
01:48:18.000Well, at this point, it's going to be very difficult to resolve.
01:48:21.000And I honestly think it's going to take a generation to work through it.
01:48:25.000But isn't it as simple as people learning what the word fascist means, for instance?
01:48:30.000It's like they firmly believe that they are trying to fight against something that is going to destroy democracy in this country, which is conservative values.
01:48:52.000So this was Mike Benz's point when he was talking about the defunding of USAID and what they use that money for.
01:49:00.000NGOs get a bunch of money and they fund a bunch of things, particularly in other countries, where they're essentially making it look like there's these on-the-ground street protests that are very organic.
01:49:34.000So it's like decades of – this is – I'm sure you've seen the Russian guy from 1984, 1985, Yuri Besmanov talking about the – Remind me.
01:49:50.000It's a wonderful video because it shows you exactly what happened, how they're going to introduce Marxism and Leninism into universities, and then it'll indoctrinate children, and then those children will be poisoned, and within one generation, it'll ruin the United States' entire educational system.
01:50:35.000The idea that universities are going to destroy the way human beings interact and debate is preposterous.
01:50:41.000But this guy was talking about this back then: that the Soviets had planned this in advance, and that they had essentially subverted our entire education system, and thereby those people would leave those schools indoctrinated and enter into the workforce with these new ideas in universal acceptance that these ideas are correct.
01:51:00.000And then it would, in turn, you know, the butterfly effect.
01:51:03.000But do you think that everyone, I don't, I can't be sure that it's as conspiratorial as that because there must have been a lot of people who just got on board with the people.
01:51:10.000Well, there's a lot of money involved in doing this.
01:51:13.000There's a lot of funds that have come from China.
01:51:15.000There's a lot of money that has been donated to these universities.
01:51:35.000The other 85% is a slow process, which we call either ideological subversion or active measures, activi mirapriatia, in the language of the KGB, or psychological warfare.
01:51:49.000What it basically means is to change the perception of reality of every American to such an extent that despite of the abundance of information, no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interest of defending themselves, their families, their community, and their country.
01:52:11.000It's a great brainwashing process which goes very slow and it's divided in four basic stages.
01:52:28.000Because this is the minimum number of years which requires to educate one generation of students in the country of your enemy, exposed to the ideology of the enemy.
01:52:41.000In other words, Marxism-Leninism ideology is being pumped into the soft heads of at least three generations of American students without being challenged or counterbalanced by the basic values of Americanism, American patriotism.
01:52:56.000The result, the result you can see, most of the people who graduated in the 60s, dropouts or half-baked intellectuals, are now occupying the positions of power in the government, civil service, business, mass media, educational system.
01:53:22.000Even if you expose them to authentic information, even if you prove that white is white and black is black, you still cannot change the basic perception and the logic of behavior.
01:53:35.000In other words, these people, the process of demoralization is complete and irreversible.
01:53:42.000To get rid society of these people, you need another 20 or 15 years to educate a new generation of patriotically minded and common sense people who would be acting in favor and in the interests of the United States society.
01:54:03.000And yet these people who have been programmed and, as you say, in place and who are favorable to an opening with the Soviet concept, these are the very people who would be marked for extermination in this country.
01:54:16.000Simply because the psychological shock, when they will see in future what the beautiful society of equality and social justice means in practice, obviously they will revolt.
01:54:31.000They will be very unhappy, frustrated people.
01:54:34.000And the Marxist-Leninist regime does not tolerate these people.
01:54:39.000Obviously, they will join the links of dissenters, dissidents.
01:54:44.000Unlike in present United States, there will be no place for dissent in future Marxist-Leninist America.
01:54:52.000Here you can get popular like Daniel Ellsberg and filthy rich like Jane Fonder for being dissident, for criticizing your Pentagon.
01:55:02.000In future these people will be simply squashed like cockroaches.
01:55:07.000Nobody is going to pay them nothing for their beautiful noble ideas of equality.
01:55:12.000This they don't understand and it will be greatest shock for them of course.
01:55:17.000The demoralization process in the United States is basically completed already.
01:55:23.000For the last 25 years, actually it's overful filled because demoralization now reaches such areas where previously not even Komrad Andropov and all his experts would even dream of such a tremendous success.
01:55:38.000Most of it is done by Americans to Americans, thanks to lack of moral standards.
01:55:44.000As I mentioned before, exposure to true information does not matter anymore.
01:55:51.000A person who was demoralized is unable to assess true information.
01:55:59.000Even if I shower him with information, with authentic proof, with documents, with pictures, even if I take him by force to the Soviet Union and show him concentration camp, he will refuse to believe it until he is going to receive a kick in his fat bottom.
01:56:18.000When a military boot crashes, then he will understand, but not before that.
01:56:23.000That's the tragic of the situation of demoralization.
01:56:28.000Well, he's describing the situation as it is at the moment, right?
01:56:32.000However, that doesn't prove that what he's des that intention to create that kind of chaos, that it was implemented and executed in the way that he describes.
01:56:41.000He's describing that, he's talking about a program that they implemented.
01:56:47.000So they had actual people in universities planted in universities to deliberately execute this idea.
01:58:19.000It's all just something, a narrative that you give the unwashed masses, and then they run with it.
01:58:25.000Well, I wonder whether it caught on, partly through what became fashionable, what became trendy, but also because any ideology says to you, you don't have to do anything anymore.
01:59:12.000Yeah, I just did a Titania tweet of a drag queen touring the Middle East, and she's touring all these venues.
01:59:18.000And she's got the sort of Palestine dress and the sort of the glam kind of Arabic look.
01:59:25.000It's like, just go there and see what happens.
01:59:28.000But that kind of cognitive dissonance can only work if you are ideologically driven.
01:59:34.000And I think, so I suppose what I mean is I think the appeal of ideology is what explains, not a kind of, we've implanted these agents here.
01:59:46.000It has to also be complicity that comes from implanting ideas.
01:59:52.000Those ideas take hold and then groupthink takes it from there.
01:59:55.000But isn't it a shame that universities of all places, the place where you go to be challenged and the place where you go.
02:00:00.000I mean, I was thinking that when I was at Berkeley and, you know, I was sitting on the stage and there's all these men with guns all around the theater because, of course, what happened with Charlie.
02:00:09.000And I'm thinking, it's like the end of the Blues Brothers, you know, where you're on stage and all the people are waiting.
02:00:41.000During the presidential elections, they were tracking cell phones from place to place, and they realized that there was a group of people that were paid attendees at Kamala Harris's rally.
02:00:55.000Their job was to show up and cheer for Kamala Harris.
02:00:58.000Do you think fundamentally then the Democrats are anti-democratic?
02:01:02.000I think fundamentally anybody that doesn't have organic support is going to figure out a way in this environment to drum it up.
02:01:12.000And if you can do that through a service, or if you could do that through an NGO, or if you could do that through a company that'll hire people to show up at your rallies, they do it because they want to win and they want to get into a position of power.
02:01:25.000And one of the things that we do find with Trump is that it actually turns out the president can do a lot.
02:01:31.000You know, and we used to think that they were kind of handcuffed and they weren't able to do as much and that's why nothing ever got done.
02:01:44.000That's what we sort of need in the UK.
02:01:46.000We need someone to come in and strip away.
02:01:48.000We need what Besminoff was saying is that we need to kind of a whole generation that teaches that being patriotic and having morals and ethics is actually a good thing.
02:02:00.000And that free speech is important and that to be able to debate ideas is essential to any sort of true society that considers itself an elevated modern version of what we hope for when this country was founded.
02:02:23.000It wasn't founded on the idea that you have to adhere to one ideology and this ideology thinks that gender is not real and no one can answer what a woman is.
02:02:36.000Well, we see in America, like America's the kind of life rafter the world, that you've got all these things built into your political system.
02:03:31.000I have no idea, and I'm a moron when it comes to politics.
02:03:34.000But what I would assume is that for sure, he was informed of this fraud long in advance.
02:03:43.000If it wasn't for that Nick Shirley kid and those videos, and apparently Nick Shirley had been informed by the GOP there that this was all going on.
02:04:04.000But it's not the most violent interactions are the interactions that are happening in the place where the most fraud has been publicly exposed.
02:05:44.000It was the woke stories applied to the whole political process in this country was dependent upon the census, which the census doesn't count citizens.
02:06:07.000Like if you work for a corporation and you're a good person, but the corporation is polluting a river in Guatemala, there's a diffusion of responsibility because you're a part of a giant system.
02:06:19.000I go to work and I do my thing for Exxon or mobile or whatever it is.
02:06:23.000Well, I'd say for however messy all of this has become in the U.S., at least you've had some sort of attempt to strip out the very stuff that that guy was talking about.
02:06:31.000The fact that the civil service is all one way, the fact that the machinery of government, that was the plan, right?
02:06:36.000So the machinery of government works in a certain way.
02:06:38.000So there's no democratic means of getting rid of it.
02:07:02.000But it also allows the distribution of information that would be impossible through normal means.
02:07:07.000If these people are, as he said, in control of major media, which they were, in control of universities, which they are, and then it goes on to be the only way people get information, now your information is very heavily filtered, and then all that stuff works.
02:07:22.000But that's why the technocrats in the EU, why ideologues generally are against internet, or they want to censor it.
02:07:29.000That's why Macron is trying to stop X in France.
02:08:27.000Because I know that there's this free speech debate opening up between the US and Europe generally.
02:08:32.000Like, you know, when JD Vance came over to Munich and gave that talk to all the European leaders and said, you've got to stop censoring your people.
02:08:39.000You've got to stop running away from voters.
02:08:41.000And they were shocked and they were horrified.
02:08:45.000People on the left should admit that he's dead right as well.
02:08:48.000But there's something about Europe, right?
02:08:50.000There's something about, like I think over here, coming over here, I get the sense that even if most left-leaning people as well as right-leaning people do value free speech as a kind of shared value.
02:09:27.000We in the UK have an authoritarian leader, Kier Starmer, the Prime Minister.
02:09:31.000He couldn't be further away from the American ideal of free speech.
02:09:35.000He introduced this online safety bill, which is basically this is why a lot of tweets in the UK, if you go over to the UK now, a lot of the tweets will come up saying this is potentially harmful content.
02:12:56.000They all get captured by groupthink and ideology, and they all get captured by money and protecting it and who's going to protect them.
02:13:04.000But we don't have that safety valve in the UK.
02:13:07.000So like I say, you were able to, for all the imperfections, you were able to vote in an administration that was actually going to rip out that whatever you call it.
02:13:46.000And then what they've also done is investigate literally billions of dollars in fraud, and they're uncovering it over and over and over and over again.
02:13:54.000So there was obviously crime that was going on that was not being addressed by the previous party.
02:13:59.000And this is one of the reasons why they didn't want the Republicans getting in in the first place.
02:14:03.000So they still have to label them in the most horrific ways possible, accentuate all the negative aspects of what's going on with the ICE stuff, but not talk at all about the economy taking an uptick, not talk at all about GDP, not talk at all about tariffs being effective, not talk at all about any of the positive things.
02:14:36.000So these narratives are just being pushed out there constantly by the media.
02:14:42.000All the while these politicians are absolutely terrified that these investigations are going to start moving into their states and uncovering more and more and more fraud, which they're going to.
02:14:52.000I mean, I know you say it's so reckless, though, I think, as well, for the Democrats to, like you say, paint ice as Nazis, talk about that this is the equivalent of the Gestapo, I think someone used that phrase.
02:15:01.000I mean, I know what you're saying about the shootings, obviously we all agree it's absolutely horrific.
02:15:04.000Any kind of situation where the police inflict that kind of violence on someone needs to be thoroughly investigated and looked into and all the rest of it.
02:15:10.000But I'm concerned about the politicians saying, no, go there.
02:15:13.000Get in the way of federal agents while they're enforcing the law.
02:15:19.000They're putting people's lives at risk, aren't they?
02:15:22.000But it's again that chess move again, giving up the rook or attacking a rook and giving up your queen because of it, because you just want the current.
02:15:31.000Well it's, it's working insofar as the like, the public is turning against Trump because of what's happening with ICE.
02:16:00.000So this is messy stuff and you yeah, but look how hard it was.
02:16:03.000I mean, you talk about how we Trump has come in and he's stripped away all this stuff and this fraud and.
02:16:09.000But that was he didn't do it in the first term, it's only when he got to the second term and it was planned and he had Doge set up and he had Musk in place and all of this deep state stuff could be identified and stripped out and worked out.
02:16:20.000A lot of deep state people in his cabinet.
02:16:22.000The first term he didn't know, so he couldn't work against it, right.
02:16:25.000In the Uk uh, just to sort of explain where I think we are, there is, we can't do that because we, we have the two major parties, are both ideologically in lockstep effectively, right.
02:16:36.000So so I mean most of the woke stuff was pushed through the the Conservative Party.
02:17:35.000We've been sort of veering massively from, you know, the Conservatives under Boris Johnson won this mad, mad majority, like 80-seat majority, and they could do whatever they want and they squandered it.
02:17:44.000People were so resentful of what happened with Johnson, who, by the way, let in more migration than illegal migration than we've ever had, right?
02:17:58.000That's a problem that conservatives don't want to admit that they were.
02:18:01.000You know, I had a conversation with a very prominent politician who explained to me that he had a conversation with a guy who was a CEO of a corporation that didn't want to stop the flow of illegal immigration because he wanted cheap labor.
02:18:27.000And then you have Starmer and the Labour Party who were just as bad, if not worse.
02:18:32.000And we have a situation where it's unmanageable now.
02:18:35.000And reform, this third party, Nigel Farage's party, is saying, no, we're actually going to tackle this.
02:18:40.000And of course, ultimately, what happens is the public, they reach a tipping point and they say, by the way, Starmer is the least popular prime minister on any opinion poll ever in the history of records.
02:18:51.000He's gone from a massive majority to nothing because he's been so useless on all of this stuff, because he's been so captured by the ideology, because he doesn't care about migration, because he said that anyone who was concerned about the grooming gang scandal was jumping on a bandwagon of the far right.
02:20:12.000And because they're so terrified of being called racist, ultimately, so they let this thing slide.
02:20:17.000So I think people are just sick of it.
02:20:19.000I think people have reached the point where even I think people who don't like Nigel Farage will hold their nose and vote for a third party to explode the system.
02:20:27.000And maybe we might be able to reset after that.
02:20:52.000You know, and that's not really the case anymore because the system that has power is a system that is pushing this one very particular ideology that also demonizes young males.
02:21:19.000We had a prime minister, you know, Kier Starmer on radio saying that 99.9% of men, women don't have a penis, which means that there are, what is it, 35,000 female penises out there?
02:21:32.000It's quite a lot, if you can picture that image.
02:21:34.000You know, so that's our prime minister saying this crazy.
02:21:37.000Our deputy prime minister said on TV that you could grow a cervix if you wanted.
02:22:11.000But the problem for reform will be, do they have the guts to do what Trump did?
02:22:14.000Do they have the guts to come in and say, look, we need to scrap the civil service.
02:22:18.000Well, you can't scrap the civil service, but you need to sort of bleed it dry.
02:22:22.000You need to give it a good rinse, right?
02:22:24.000You need to get rid of the – because there have been whistleblowers in the UK civil service who have said, we're not going to do what the elected politicians say.
02:22:31.000If they come in and say there's an immigration problem, we're just going to stymie that.
02:22:36.000We've got police who are routinely investigating people for their opinions.
02:22:42.000Just to put that into context, by the way, if we're talking about this deep state that we've got to clean out, our police force is trained by a body called the College of Policing.
02:22:52.000They have been telling police for years, it's your job to arrest people for what they think and what they say.
02:22:57.000And the High Court told them, you've got to stop this.
02:23:01.000You've got to stop recording non-crime hate incidents.
02:23:04.000Two home secretaries said to them, you've got to stop recording non-crime hate incidents.
02:25:13.000You need a politician to go in and say, scrap the college police in, strip out all the activists within the NHS, within the army, within the police, within the Crown Prosecution Service.
02:25:23.000It also has to get so bad that people realise how bad it is and they need radical change.
02:25:27.000But I think the grooming gangs did that.
02:25:29.000I think the fact that we effectively sacrificed thousands of kids on the altar of ideology, the fact that we said, you know, there were politicians, counselors, doctors, social workers, saying we don't want to be called racist, so we're going to ignore the sexual assault of children on a mass scale.
02:25:48.000And that was not really thoroughly covered here in America in mainstream news.
02:25:52.000I think because Elon – No, online it was, but not in mainstream news.
02:25:56.000So do people not generally know about that?
02:26:05.000But the power of being called racist became so intense.
02:26:10.000I mean, even, you know, that horrible bombing at the Manchester Arena at the Ariana Grande concert, in the subsequent report of what went wrong, one of the security guards said he saw the perpetrator with the rucksack and he didn't approach him or apprehend him because he was afraid of being called racist.
02:26:28.000And as a result of that, two dozen children lost their lives.
02:26:31.000The power of smearing someone as racist is so potent, which is why I think here in America, the word fascist, the word Nazi gets thrown around so much because they know if someone is so branded, you disoblige yourself from having to engage with their ideas.
02:26:47.000They become this kind of monster that you don't have to even think about or worry about.
02:26:51.000And we're just, I think we're just getting over that in the UK now where the accusation of racism no longer really sticks.
02:26:58.000I think people think it doesn't mean anything anymore.
02:27:01.000And, you know, they've tried with reform.
02:27:04.000They've tried saying that reform is a racist party.
02:27:45.000There was no expectation they should integrate.
02:27:47.000And as a result of that, it's gone from being one of the safest countries in Europe to being the country that has most gun and bomb attacks of any country not at war except for Mexico.
02:27:58.000And that's happened in the space of 10 years.
02:28:01.000I remember when it was going on, a Swedish stand-up friend of mine, Tobeas Pearson, texted me saying there's grenades going off in Stockholm.
02:29:11.000The Queers for Palestine phenomenon is explained by the internet and people being stupid and being in a bubble where they never experienced those folks.
02:29:51.000The more chaos you have, the more laws you need.
02:29:54.000The more laws you need, the more control you have.
02:29:56.000But speaking to these people in Sweden, I mean, it was an event where we were talking about a book I'd written, so it was all about these issues.
02:30:02.000And I was mingling and talking to them.
02:30:12.000I think the people that implement those laws in the first place, they know what they're doing.
02:30:15.000Yes, and well, certainly they're aware of the risks.
02:30:18.000I mean, if you take what happened in Cologne, that New Year's Eve party, where I think over 800 women were sexually assaulted, and the media didn't report it.
02:30:27.000And the government wanted to sort of minimalize it and say that this wasn't real.
02:30:30.000It's not even just the risks, it's the physical, actual, measurable consequences.
02:30:37.000That, to me, leads me to think that they know what they're doing.
02:30:41.000You don't think it could just be complete naivety, this idea that...
02:30:44.000I think it's the best way to combat the internet.
02:30:46.000The best way to combat the internet is to create a massive amount of chaos and then crack down on people's lives.
02:30:51.000I suppose what worries me about it is, though, the assumption that it's all sort of coordinated will take you down that route where you start thinking, as some friends of mine now think, the world is controlled by a group of Satanists who sit in a room and they choose the leaders and they do know what I mean?
02:31:08.000Well, I don't think it's Satanists, but I think it's incredibly wealthy people.
02:31:12.000But why would it be in their interest to destroy the economy that so sustains them?
02:31:16.000Well, it depends on where they are and who they are.
02:31:18.000But George Soros clearly does that, and he's talked about it.
02:31:22.000He's talked about enjoying destroying democracies and enjoying destroying countries.
02:31:37.000what i struggle with though like you know someone who believes in fundamentally the capitalist dream can't you can it's subject to manipulation Yeah.
02:31:50.000And intelligent, evil people, or at least amoral.
02:31:53.000But this doesn't answer why people do vote for it, and they do.
02:31:57.000But they do vote for it because they've done a really good job of attaching it.
02:32:33.000Well, I think, I mean, I think ultimately, hopefully, the brick wall of reality is what cures this.
02:32:39.000If we don't destroy society along the way, if we don't allow them to destroy society, if we don't completely erode all of our rights along the way.
02:32:48.000And as you said earlier, you can get very close to that happening.
02:33:11.000In fact, I think the Australian hate speech law is basically saying if someone does something that wasn't intended to stir up hatred, but it could conceivably have stirred up hatred among a theoretical group of people, then it's a crime and you can get five years in prison.
02:33:46.000What we should start doing is taking people that have done no crime whatsoever and create their dissent, create a crime based on their dissent.
02:34:37.000But I think what's better now is that people can see through that.
02:34:39.000So like when Keir Starmer, after that horrible, I mentioned it earlier, the girls who were killed in the dance class by the guy who was a child of immigrants, his response to that was, okay, let's not deal with the fact that we've got radicalized individuals within our community, young people.
02:34:59.000He said, let's ban buying knives off Amazon because the guy got the knife from Amazon, right?
02:35:23.000But this is the idea of allowing this kind of chaos and having this be a coordinated plan, right?
02:35:30.000The more chaos you have, the more you gaslight people, the more people are attached to an ideology, the more you can keep restricting their rights further and further and further until they're more and more frustrated until a lot of them just give up.
02:35:42.000But we are at a position now where people are seeing through it all the time.
02:35:45.000In the UK now, like no matter how much they smear reformers' far right, the polls just keep going up and up and up things.
02:35:51.000Right, but it's because of the internet, because you have at least some dissenting voices.
02:35:56.000have that and also the palpable absurdities of what the politicians are trying to tell you is real right is as big as reach that's why they're trying to crack down on pub talk Oh, and by the way, you know, the Labour Party has cancelled a number of local elections because they know they're going to lose them.
02:36:39.000And I think they reach a point where they say, and some of the stories are so egregious.
02:36:44.000Like, for instance, the guy, have you heard of a guy called Hamit Koskin?
02:36:48.000I think he's Armenian guy who burned a copy of his Quran outside the Turkish embassy, right?
02:36:53.000The idea of this was a protest against the Turkish government because he perceives Erdogan's government as, I suppose, supporting Islamism and the rise of Islamism.
02:37:02.000So he protests outside the thing, burns the Quran.
02:37:04.000Two people attack him, one with a knife, the other, some deliveroo driver starts kicking him.
02:37:09.000He gets prosecuted in a court of law for inciting the violence.
02:37:13.000And the judge actually says, the fact that you were attacked is proof that you were inciting violence, right?
02:37:19.000It took the free speech union in the UK to have that overturned, to fight on his behalf, to say, that's a peaceful protest.
02:37:56.000You should be able to, you know, we've got nothing against Muslim people.
02:38:00.000What we are objecting to is the idea that we shouldn't be able to ridicule your religion or mock your religion or protest against your religion.
02:38:06.000And you're going to pathologize it by saying we've got a sickness, we're Islamophobic.
02:38:10.000I think people, I think that case, the fact that you can't burn, I mean, some kid in a school in Wakefield accidentally scuffed a copy of his Quran and he got hit with a non-crime hate incident and there was a big issue and the police got involved.
02:38:24.000You know, we have to hold fast to this idea that, no, no idea, no idea doesn't get criticized.
02:38:33.000And so I just think the more stories like that happen, maybe I'm naive, but I think the British public's patience is kind of at the very end.