00:00:20.000And just some stuff that was like, what's in there?
00:00:27.000How did, first of all, I want to talk you through, like, when you were a younger man before you had looked into this, what was your opinions on medical science?
00:00:37.000Were you skeptical, or did you just kind of assume that everything that we're told is exactly how it is and the experts have only the best interests of human beings in mind and not money?
00:00:49.000I had what you would effectively call the mainstream view.
00:01:05.000I think it's anybody that didn't consider themselves a fool.
00:01:09.000You know, you would have to be a fool, like a real fool, to ignore all this medical science, which is the reason why there's so many people alive today that would have died.
00:01:32.000Don't they know all the good things that vaccines have done?
00:01:36.000And there's the blatant propaganda that we were force-fed like one of those ducks are trying to make faux gua with.
00:01:44.000It just made me stop and pause and go, is the whole thing like this?
00:01:49.000Is this whole thing just a dirty money laundering operation?
00:01:54.000Because it kind of seems like that's at least part of the reason why they were telling people to get boosted when they knew it wasn't working and telling young people that didn't need it.
00:02:05.000That's the only reason why you would do any of those things after a certain amount of information is out.
00:02:10.000And so it just made me stop and think about the whole thing and go, well, why would I assume that this is the one area where pharmaceutical drug companies, doctors, everybody's been totally honest in this one area when it's like a religious thing if you question it?
00:02:29.000And that's the, well, I love the title of your book.
00:02:38.000It's a religion for secular, intelligent people with a higher education.
00:02:44.000And it causes incredible cognitive dissonance for anybody out there to come to the conclusion that the CDC and the FDA and our public health authorities and what the entire medical establishment has been telling you may not be accurate about vaccines.
00:03:03.000Because like what you just said, the claim that you're a flat earther, you're an anti-vaxxer, deserves.
00:03:12.000And they're used as a way to say you are really out there and dumb.
00:03:17.000They're completely equal in their impact.
00:03:19.000And so it takes incredible cognitive dissonance to say there are real problems with vaccines.
00:03:26.000But vaccines really sit in their own little universe.
00:03:31.000They're unlike any other medical product.
00:03:36.000They're not like any other product out there, any other product in this room, anything out there, for one major reason.
00:03:44.000Every other product that exists, I can sue the company.
00:03:50.000I can hold them accountable if that product injures or kills you or your child on the basis that product could have made safer.
00:03:59.000The only product, and I mean this literally, the only product in America where you cannot sue to say had you made that product safer, my child wouldn't be dead.
00:04:13.000My child wouldn't be seriously injured.
00:04:15.000They wouldn't have a neurological disorder.
00:04:16.000They wouldn't have immunological disorder.
00:04:18.000They wouldn't have a nervous system disorder.
00:04:19.000They wouldn't have a cardiac issue are childhood vaccines and child vaccines used by adults.
00:04:27.000And that's because of a law called the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986.
00:04:33.000It gave pharma companies that incredibly special immunity.
00:04:39.000Now, just to put that into context, okay, and I'll tie this back in a second as to how we ended up with this notion of this belief, religion, and vaccines, because, you know, given industry 40 years of unopposed ability to influence, they're going to get pretty dang far, and they did with vaccines.
00:04:59.000And so, you know, a lot of industries face a crossroads where their products are causing more harm than good.
00:05:34.000A child following the CDC schedule in 1986 got three injections on or before their first birthday.
00:05:43.000Those three products were causing so much harm and injury that every manufacturer of them went out of business.
00:05:51.000And that was the MMR vaccine, the DTP, and the OPV vaccine.
00:05:54.000Every single one, from six down to one, or for the Peotuses vaccine, six down to one for measles, about three downs, one for polio.
00:06:01.000And with one company left for each, instead of forcing them to do what every other industry has to do, like I said, make better building materials without asbestos, make better cars that don't explode, go down the chain of different products out there.
00:06:16.000Congress did something completely unique.
00:06:21.000We're just going to give you immunity.
00:06:23.000We're going to make it so that no company, excuse me, no individual, no parent, no child can sue you for the injuries and deaths caused by your vaccine products.
00:06:35.000That is what the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act 1986 did.
00:06:38.000And not only for those three products, but for any other childhood vaccine thereafter.
00:06:42.000And what that effectively has done is given 40 years for the industry to promote their products, no pushback.
00:06:49.000When you read about a problem with a car, where are you reading about it from?
00:06:52.000Usually a class action lawsuit in the paper, right?
00:06:55.000You're not going to read about that in vaccines typically.
00:06:57.000And because of that, you ended up where we are.
00:07:00.000Anyways, there's a lot more detail to that, but I'll stop there for now.
00:08:46.000So does everybody, the people who owe the stock, everybody involved, all the employees that have stock options, including usually the major ones, everybody wants it to go up.
00:09:13.000You have an economic self-interest as a corporation to know, not because you're altruistic, not because you're moral, not because you're ethical, just because you have that economic self-interest to assure the product is safe before you go to market and after you go to market.
00:10:06.000It's because the company wants to know whether the drug is safe or not before it goes to market.
00:10:12.000Because you know what happens with the drug that they put out that's going to make $40 billion in revenue or $20 billion but causes $100 billion in harm?
00:10:21.000So they want to know to a reasonable degree how safe the drug is before it goes to market.
00:10:30.000In an attempt not to cherry pick, as I did in my book, I found an article that listed the top four selling profitable drugs by Pfizer as of like 2021 or something, 2019, okay?
00:10:43.000And if you look at those four most profitable drugs, as I put in my book, each one has two to seven years of follow-up in the clinical trial that was relied upon to license that drug against a placebo control group.
00:10:56.000Just to make sure everybody, I'm sure everybody knows what that means, but that just means a group that gets something inert.
00:11:01.000So this way you give the group the experimental drug, you give a group the placebo, something inert, you track them for multiple years, and then you compare all the outcomes, cardiovascular outcomes, neurological outcomes, immunology, go down the list, and cancer rates, and you see the difference.
00:11:18.000You get a real actual sense of the safety between those two for that product.
00:11:25.000In contrast, for most childhood vaccines, instead of years, it's often days or weeks of safety you're viewing the clinical trial relied upon to license them.
00:11:40.000Not a single, and I know that folks contest this all the time, but it's in the FDA literature.
00:11:48.000Not a single routine-injected childhood vaccine was licensed based on a placebo-controlled trial, save for the COVID vaccine, by the way, for children.
00:12:02.000Nor was the vaccine sometimes uses the control itself licensed based on a placebo-controlled trial, nor anywhere down that chain.
00:12:16.000Chapter 10 of my book, I go through every vaccine.
00:12:19.000I go through, I have it all cited to the FDA licensure documents.
00:12:23.000You can listen to the talking heads, or you can rely on the primary sources from the FDA, which is why I call my book Vaccines Amen, because there is what they tell you, and then there's what the actual evidence shows, right?
00:12:35.000So that gives you an example at the outcome of not having an economic self-interest.
00:12:40.000With drugs, they have it, so they want to know the safety.
00:12:46.000Like, the Viox people knew that there was one of the things that was revealed during the trial is that they knew that there was going to be issues, but I think the quote was: we still think we'll do well.
00:12:58.000And that was one of the damning aspects of the email disclosure, because you got a chance to see how these guys talk about this drug that they're about to release.
00:13:06.000I think they wound up paying a percentage of the amount of money they made from the drug, but they made way more from the drug than they did the fine.
00:13:19.000And it's why I said when I was saying that they do the analysis of whether they're going to have $100 billion in loss or $40 billion in revenue.
00:13:28.000I'm not saying they won't put out a drug that causes harm.
00:13:31.000You're saying it caused too much harm.
00:13:36.000They don't want to end up upside down.
00:13:38.000And remember, the whole reason a drug is licensed is because it can cause harm.
00:13:43.000The crazy thing about the Viox one is I think it killed somewhere north of 50,000 people and they still made profit off of it, which is kind of bananas.
00:13:55.000They pulled it and made billions in profit.
00:14:03.000If you were talking about companies that never did anything wrong, it had the highest moral and ethical standards, and they're the ones because it's not about money.
00:14:12.000It's about saving people's health and it's about public safety.
00:14:16.000And we've got to make sure that we do this right.
00:14:17.000We're going to make sure we squash all the disinformation.
00:14:19.000But that's not what you're talking about.
00:14:22.000You're talking about these companies that have been fined billions, billions of dollars in criminal fines for fraud, for all kinds of shit.
00:15:35.000And in that lawsuit, what they discovered was the company had done an internal calculation in which it did the math.
00:15:43.000What's it going to cost to actually fix all the gas tanks?
00:15:47.000What's that dollar number versus what's it going to cost to just pay out for those deaths every year for those people that we burn knowingly are going to die and burn to death in those cars?
00:15:57.000And the calculation was that it was going to cost less to pay out for the deaths.
00:16:03.000And that is what the internal document showed.
00:16:05.000And that, by the way, is in part the case, the quintessential case you learn in law school for why they have punitive damages.
00:16:13.000Because the punitive damages were there to force the company to conform its conduct in exactly that scenario where the economics weren't going to do it, right?
00:16:26.000Even in something that horrible, when the market forces weren't sufficient, the economic self-interest wasn't there, you had to make it happen.
00:16:48.000Think about how incredibly harmful and how much harm these vaccines must do that they cannot survive on the market without this immunity from 1986.
00:17:02.000If you were going to steal me on the argument against that, wouldn't you say, look, we can't have frivolous lawsuits against these people that are providing us the most important medication that's available to humans.
00:17:16.000The whole reason why we survived smallpox and polio and all these different things.
00:18:49.000Drugs, drugs that are for very small populations, meaning not a lot of market, not a lot of sales, that cause incredible side effects can survive on the market profitably.
00:20:08.000Number two, the second way you hold them accountable is you bring a claim called a failure to warrant claim.
00:20:18.000I failed to warn you about the harm that the drug could have caused, okay?
00:20:22.000And so what do you have to do there to protect yourself?
00:20:25.000The company has to disclose all the potential harms.
00:20:27.000If it has it right there in the package insert and you get it and it says, hey, it can cause this, you were told, you chose to still take the product.
00:20:34.000They made it as safe as technologically feasible.
00:21:08.000You're telling me they still don't know it's safe enough to lift that immunity?
00:21:11.000You're giving it to millions of kids a year.
00:21:13.000You're making billions of dollars on the sales of this product, and you still don't know it's safe enough to lift that immunity, please.
00:21:21.000Okay, if I was a silly person, I would probably say these vaccines are more important than any medication that's ever existed because they are the reason why we are here, because that's how we survived smallpox and polio and the measles and everything else.
00:21:39.000And without them, we would have perished.
00:21:42.000We would have never achieved the technological states that we're at because we wouldn't have been healthy.
00:21:47.000We would have gone through mass plagues.
00:22:08.000Yeah, I try not to do too much believing, and I try to do a little bit of evidence-based thinking.
00:22:12.000But any event, look, when it comes to these products, I saved my beliefs for religion, the unanswerables, where do we go when we die, and so forth.
00:22:22.000I have to take a leap of faith, and I do it when I need to, but you don't need to with these products.
00:22:52.000Intuitively, you'd say that's ridiculous.
00:22:55.000On the death's point, that is one of the myths.
00:22:59.000That is one of the mythologies around vaccines that has developed over time.
00:23:04.000This notion that everybody in America die without vaccines.
00:23:08.000In chapter seven of my book, I lay it out for every single disease.
00:23:12.000And what I do there is I say, okay, how many deaths were there in America the year before the vaccine was first introduced or widely or widely used or so forth, okay?
00:23:26.000And what you find is, if you go down the list, there were typically dozens to hundreds, maybe a thousand or so deaths from each disease for which we vaccinate.
00:23:36.000The further back in time you go, the larger the number, but in that dozens to 1,000 or so deaths, okay?
00:23:44.000For example, measles, the dreaded measles that they say everybody will die from.
00:23:49.000No measles vaccine, we're all going to die, right?
00:24:01.000400 a year died in the United States at a time when everybody had measles, which comes out to about one in 450,000 Americans dying of measles.
00:24:43.000Well, that's just the way they gather the data, is the way I'll put it.
00:24:47.000But with influenza, well, if I finish up with measles, because I think this is important on the measles one, and I can deal with influenza as well.
00:24:59.000But on the measles one, just to really, because you're saying, well, everybody would die without these.
00:25:04.000I don't think people think of influenza, by the way.
00:25:28.000Not only that, isn't there data that shows that if you get it, you're more likely to get other colds.
00:25:35.000Yeah, I have a whole giant footnote in my book about this, and I've actually tweeted this out and did a substick about this, a whole series of articles.
00:25:45.000Studies that show that those that have had the influenza vaccines, maybe these studies often reflect have around the same rate of influenza.
00:25:55.000Maybe they have less respiratory and fluenza infections, but many studies show they have multiple times the rate of other respiratory infections.
00:26:06.000Maybe you've reduced your risk of influenza by this much, but you've increased your risk of another different respiratory disease by that much.
00:26:20.000I mean, literally three, four, I mean, huge percentages.
00:26:24.000And they're statistically significant in these studies.
00:26:26.000And so, you know, when you're looking at a now, these are all retrospective epidemiological studies.
00:26:31.000But when you do a retrospective EPI study, which means you take existing data and then you study it versus saying, okay, we're going to do a study and follow people going forward.
00:27:13.000So measles, the ideal age to get it is not when you're an infant, which in the pre-vaccine era, infants typically did not get measles because they got maternal immunity from the mother.
00:27:25.000And you don't want to get it as an adult because it is more likely to cause problems, which again, in the pre-vaccine era, wasn't a problem because everybody virtually got it as a child.
00:27:49.000Find that clip and let's watch it because it's so indicative of what measles was actually like in the culture of the people that would get it all the time versus this boogeyman of today.
00:28:55.000And I can add another data point to that to help support that, which is that between 1900, and this is again CDC data, between 1900 and the late 1950s, early 1960s, the mortality from measles declined in the United States by over 98%.
00:32:13.000Meaning, the improvement in acute care, the introduction of antibiotics, better living conditions, not having sewage in the street, you name it, probably had a massive contributor to that reduction, but they never point to that.
00:32:29.000And there's one other really inconvenient data point with measles, and this is really where it gets upsetting for folks out there who you were just saying are going to watch the show.
00:32:38.000That over 98% reduction in mortality, there's no reason that that curve was not going to continue.
00:32:45.000Because pockets of the United States in the late 15 and early 60s were like a developing country.
00:32:50.000In a developing country, kids are going to die of any infectious disease because of extremely poor living conditions.
00:32:57.000And as those improved, most likely that 400 deaths also would have continued to decline.
00:33:02.0004.2 million births in the United States in the late 50s, early 60s, about 3.8 million births today.
00:33:08.000So in fact, there's less children being born in America today than there was then.
00:33:11.000So you have a smaller cohort of babies, young children to infect.
00:33:17.000And final data point, and it's this, and this is really, I know this is going to cause cognitive dissonance for some, but studies that have looked at those that have had measles versus those that don't find that those that have had measles have a statistically significant greater reduction in deaths from cardiovascular disease and various cancers.
00:33:48.000There's a 20-year, 22-year prospective study in Japan funded by the government of Japan and major universities that tracked 100,000 people in Japan for 22 years.
00:33:59.000And it found that those that had measles and mumps had a 20% statistically significant decline in deaths from cardiovascular disease.
00:34:10.000About 800,000 Americans die of cardiovascular disease.
00:34:14.000If eliminating measles and mumps has increased cardiovascular deaths in the United States by even 1% on a life years lost basis, you are still way upside down on your public health benefit by eliminating measles.
00:34:29.000Can I ask you what the speculation is of how that could be?
00:34:32.000Why would measles and mumps infection at an early age improve your health cardiovascularly?
00:34:38.000Why would it also, those that have not had measles, have a 66% increased rate of non-Hodgkin lymphoma and 266% increased rate of Hodgkin's lymphoma, which kills 20,000 people a year?
00:34:50.000Why would women that have had measles have 50% less ovarian cancer, which kills a lot of women every year?
00:35:34.000I'm just repeating to you what the data reflects.
00:35:37.000It could be that having those furbile childhood infections conferred a survival advantage overall.
00:35:44.000And it could be the reason they never actually went away over time, became less obviously pathogenic.
00:35:50.000So it has like a hermetic effect and it makes you physically stronger somehow or another.
00:35:54.000It makes your immune system stronger, your cardiovascular, like a stress test.
00:36:00.000I mean, it's not outside the realm of possibility, right?
00:36:02.000I mean, if lifting weights makes you stronger and, you know, studying makes you smarter, wouldn't it make sense that some form of infection that you recover from will make you more resilient?
00:36:20.000Yeah, theory relativity is not intuitive.
00:36:22.000Why is it as you approach a more massive object or approach the speed of light, does time relatively slow down?
00:36:29.000I don't know if it makes sense or not.
00:36:31.000It's just what when you put two atomic clocks on a plane, one on the ground, one in the plane, you fly it around the earth, they're not ticking the same, so there it is.
00:36:46.000And I'm just saying what the studies show.
00:36:48.000Very inconvenient, a lot of cognitions there, but it could very well be that our whole, this whole program, not only do we, so going back to your whole, going all the way back to your point, you're like, well, they'll say vaccines are so important.
00:37:21.000But if I was questioning anything, I would say, okay, if we don't have genetic immunity anymore, because our parents didn't have it, because our parents are vaccinated against measles, wouldn't it be better to keep vaccinating people rather than let a whole bunch of people with no immunity to measles get it, particularly like older people?
00:37:43.000So this is a really important point, actually.
00:38:40.000But do you remember how she was saying it?
00:38:41.000It's like, in any other business, if you were running a pharmaceutical drug business, if you were running Chevy and you're making a new Corvette and you started talking about how this Corvette is a gift from God, everybody will go, oh, Kathy's cracked.
00:39:45.000And so to your, now going back, so that's the differential.
00:39:49.000And in fact, for most of the other vaccines, like pertussis vaccine and so forth, they make you more likely to spread the pathogen if you're vaccinated.
00:39:57.000But before I do that, let me just point out that to your last comment, because measles, MMR vaccine and chickenpox vaccine can prevent transmission, you are correct.
00:40:08.000If measles were to come through society right now, right now, in the current time, it would be problematic because babies who aren't supposed to get it would be more likely to get it because the mothers aren't conferring the same maternal immunity that they did in the pre-vaccine era because the vaccine doesn't confer the same level of immunity anywhere near.
00:40:27.000And older folks, because the vaccine is nowhere as efficacious as having had the infection, depending on the study, 2% to 10% do not sero convert even after two doses, meaning they are not getting immunity at all, pretty much, or immunity that's considered immune.
00:40:44.000Is this when they take it later in life or when they take it when they're young?
00:40:47.000This is when they take it when they're young.
00:40:50.000And that's why when there's a measles outbreak, a lot of times you'll hear a call to even have folks who are older get the measles vaccine again, right?
00:40:57.000There's guidance on that because it doesn't confer.
00:41:37.000Kind of crazy if the parent aren't intervening as drug users or whatever, whatever would give them Hep B, that you're going to inject a baby with a vaccine that prevents them from getting a sexually transmitted disease and like a rarely, you got to be doing something rough.
00:41:56.000Joe, you just don't understand what goes on in the NICU.
00:43:05.000There is a little program, though, in the federal government where you can bring a claim if you're injured from a vaccine.
00:43:09.000That's what I'm talking about right now.
00:43:10.000I went about the hep baby that died of Hep B.
00:43:13.000It's called the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.
00:43:15.000I have like 20 folks in my firm that do that work.
00:43:18.000And, you know, it's not like a regular court.
00:43:20.000You don't get an Article III judge, Article 3 of the Constitution, a federal judge.
00:43:24.000You don't get any discovery as of right, which is how you prove harms.
00:43:27.000There's a $250,000 statutory cap on pain and suffering and on death, which is ridiculous.
00:43:33.000And it doesn't have, you know, anyways, long story short, it's paid out about $5 billion for damages and so forth from vaccines over the years.
00:43:41.000But so I didn't want people to get confused when I said, well, how did this baby get adjudicated?
00:43:51.000So when you have conversations with people and they are the way you used to be and the way I used to be, where you just sort of just assumed that the people that are experts in their fields are doing a great job and that's why we're alive.
00:44:08.000And you start telling them these things.
00:44:10.000Like, are you a real problem at a cocktail party?
00:44:13.000Like, have you ever had a conversation that just went completely sideways and they started getting angry at you for quoting things?
00:44:30.000But a lot of folks, there's two things.
00:44:35.000First, for some, like medical professionals, a lot of them seem to derive a lot of their self-schema almost, their value, their worth from these products.
00:45:30.000Millions of people who were listening to basic stuff that 10 years ago when I started doing this work, nobody talked about what is a placebo?
00:45:52.000And also, credit to YouTube, because YouTube doesn't suppress this stuff anymore, which is why I found dozens of interviews with you on YouTube.
00:45:59.000I mean, before, I mean, I'd seen some of your stuff on social media, but then, you know, I've watched a bunch of your stuff now on YouTube.
00:46:07.000Whereas during the pandemic, everything you said, you would have got removed.
00:47:01.000It was stunning to watch people not be outraged, too.
00:47:04.000When information was getting out about different people that were silenced, Jay Bhattacharya and all those different people that were getting attacked, Martin Koldorf.
00:47:13.000It was stunning how no one was going, hey, what is going on here?
00:47:18.000This seems really weird that you're removing posts from guys from MIT and Stanford and banning their accounts.
00:47:26.000And until Elon purchased Twitter, we really didn't know the extent of it.
00:47:30.000We didn't really, we really weren't aware if that was government involvement that they were stepping in to remove and remove malinformation.
00:47:44.000Because it's true information that might cause problems, which is fucking almost everything.
00:47:51.000As soon as you have a problem with malinformation, like you are encouraging the creepiest kind of groupthink that's available, and no one freaked out.
00:48:00.000Well, a few people freaked out, but not enough.
00:48:02.000It wasn't, it should have been bipartisan.
00:48:04.000It should have been a bipartisan freak out.
00:48:06.000It should have been left and right, but it got politicized in this really stupid way where people on the left were pro-vaccine and pro-pharmaceutical drug company and pro-narrative.
00:48:16.000And people on the right were like, I'm going to take my chances.
00:48:29.000But I'll tell you what made me think people were going to go into the street with pitchforks was when the government told everybody stay at home.
00:51:31.000You're 17, you're 18, you're totally healthy, no comorbidities, and you want to get a vaccine a day, wear 70 masks, and live in your basement in a self-imposed state home order.
00:51:43.000And you're 90 and you're a war veteran and you want to go to the, you have 16 comorbidities and you want to go to the coffee shop with no vaccine and no mask, you should be free to do that because that's America too.
00:51:56.000And if you don't stand up for that right now, the day comes when there's something, a medical product you don't want, the government says you have to get.
00:52:05.000Because trust me, it is so much cheaper to lobby to get a medical product required than it is to market to get people to get it.
00:52:15.000That's why there's so much lobbying to get mandates, get rid of exemptions across the country that you don't want and you can't get a job and you can't go to school and you can't leave your house, then what good are the rest of your rights?
00:52:38.000And it's such an important thing to get out there, to get people to understand that It's such a natural human inclination to when you're in a place of power, of control, any form of government, you want more control.
00:52:59.000And what you're talking about, when you lose rights, you very rarely get them back.
00:53:03.000That was so on display in California with the COVID regulations because they had everybody locked down way past where they had to.
00:53:13.000A friend of mine's brother worked in one of the COVID, some government office when they were considering the closing of outdoor dining.
00:53:24.000And he brought up, but there's no transmission related to outdoor dining.
00:53:30.000And the woman who was in charge said, yes, but it's all about the optics.
00:53:34.000So she was willing to, with a wave of her magic wand, shut down outdoor dining for a bunch of small family businesses that were probably barely staying alive after COVID.
00:54:49.000You get money for ratting out your neighbor.
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00:55:59.000Well, when the government gets it wrong, they always always double down because, and that's the problem with the mandates.
00:56:05.000Once they've required it, they have taken a position.
00:56:10.000And then to admit they're wrong, often what government ends up saying is, oh, well, we're the CDC.
00:56:16.000If we admit we're wrong about this, that's going to hurt our ability to influence the public.
00:56:21.000And that's more important than admitting we're wrong on this or correcting course because our legitimacy, our ability to influence the public is so important.
00:56:31.000We have to, you know, we can't admit we're wrong.
00:56:33.000That's what Bobby's doing right now when some of these things is, you know, is some of the stuff, like the new autism page on the CDC website, for example, is contrary to anything I've ever seen come out of the federal health authorities to date.
00:59:01.000A 2%, 3%, 4% just will not take these products.
00:59:06.000And I'll tell you, by the way, most of these folks are.
00:59:08.000They're the folks who really need the exemptions because most people who don't choose to take childhood vaccines, they don't typically just wake up and decide to do that for fun.
00:59:18.000Not many people wake up one day and go, you know what I'm going to do today?
00:59:22.000I'm going to take a socially ostracizing position.
00:59:25.000I'm going to get my kids kicked out of school, me thrown out of my job.
00:59:27.000My friends call me an anti-this, an anti-that, you know, you name it, all the horribles that come with not vaccinating.
00:59:34.000No, most people don't vaccinate, don't vaccinate because they've had a very, very personal or negative experience with these products.
00:59:44.000They or one of their kids or one of their family members, or they've learned stuff they cannot learn about them.
01:00:29.000I mean, which is why I'm so glad you wrote your book that way, because I think there's these natural patterns of groupthink and of just complying that people automatically fall into.
01:01:01.000And if you scale it outward, it goes to a lot of stuff.
01:01:04.000There's a lot of stuff that people just have these like climate change as a religion right now.
01:01:09.000Like there's certain people that if you confront them with like the actual ones that are willing to question the narrative that are legitimate clients, scientists, they'll tell you, like, it is so complicated to figure out what is causing the changes in the Earth's climate, warmth and cold, and the fact that it's never been static ever in human history, never before humans, never millions of years.
01:02:25.000You guys are a bunch of crooks that are making money off of this idea that you're forcing down everybody's throat, that everybody's got a green new deal and everybody's got to do renewable this and renewable.
01:02:35.000And then who's got money invested in all this stuff?
01:03:41.000Dispassionately looking at it over and over and over and seeing what more you can learn.
01:03:47.000And the moment somebody says, no, we need to stop.
01:03:49.000You can't discuss, you can't debate that, that's when you know you're dealing with religion, not science.
01:03:53.000And when I've talked to certain scientists in different fields that feel very constricted by the academic environment, one of the things that they point to is that the group think involved in that is just like the group think involved in everything and left-wing politics, whatever it is.
01:04:09.000Just figure out whatever it is, right-wing politics.
01:04:11.000Groupthink in academia is also higher, it's hierarchical.
01:04:16.000There's tiers, and you got to agree with everybody that's above you.
01:04:21.000You want to get tenure, you want to progress, you want to get grants.
01:04:24.000It's got to be, you guys got to be in line on all this shit.
01:04:27.000And he's like, and anybody thinks out of the box is ruthlessly attacked.
01:04:31.000And even when they turn out to be correct, no one apologizes.
01:04:35.000No, they are reluctantly agree that the person was initially correct, but they'll destroy their career if they can.
01:04:42.000He's like, the pissing matches are horrifying.
01:04:45.000And these are the people that are in charge of telling you what's real in the world.
01:04:53.000They have ego and there's a fucking social scramble going on at all times.
01:04:58.000And people are playing succession and Game of Thrones.
01:05:01.000It's like the reality is not what you're being told in the news.
01:05:07.000What you're being told in the news is a narrative.
01:05:09.000And when the news has a giant chunk of their money for advertising, it's paid by pharmaceutical drug companies and they never criticize him.
01:07:10.000Who protected their right to say that?
01:07:13.000Democrat, ACLU, liberal lawyers and liberal judges.
01:07:17.000And they said protecting their right to say the things they're saying is despicable, as horrible as we might find it, protects all our right to free speech.
01:07:25.000Could you imagine those same folks today bringing that case and deciding that way?
01:07:30.000And what's stunning is that if you asked anybody alive then, if you had ultimate access to information, literally you could pick up your phone and ask it any question about anything and get information instantaneously, would people be more or less informed?
01:07:51.000You would say, well, certainly they'll be more informed, so there'll be more understanding of the value of free speech, and they'll know more about that ruling and what a brave stance they took to allow the KKK to march and how it just shows intellectual superiority.
01:08:04.000The way to beat a bad idea is not to silence it, is to argue it with a much better idea.
01:08:11.000That you would think by 2026, well, they'll be way better.
01:08:14.000This would be a super advanced society of flying cars.
01:09:02.000Social media and the scrolling through those videos, which is what you're describing, I think, is so troubling.
01:09:08.000First of all, my understanding is that they just show you stuff that confirms what you already believe because that's what you want to see.
01:09:14.000You want to see the things that you already agree with.
01:09:17.000So you just get this credible confirmation bias that happens, which is antithetical to thinking critically, to really opening your mind to it.
01:09:25.000And then you end up, you know, without because without actually understanding both sides of an argument, without really understanding it.
01:09:32.000I mean, look, I understand the stuff about vaccines that I know which ones stop transmission.
01:10:19.000How many more people would be interested in doing it?
01:10:22.000Like if there was a thing, if you could just stare at your phone for a few hours a day and you get significantly smarter, it's a 10-point jump in IQ.
01:11:33.000I don't want to go down this rabbit hole because it's not my area per se, but for the whole length of humanity, right, when you think of the spectrum, right?
01:11:43.000We were pretty much only exposed to natural light, which is a very narrow light, narrow band of the spectrum, okay?
01:11:51.000So as you go down on the left side of the spectrum, the waves get longer, like AM waves, really long, FM waves, microwaves, natural light, and then above that, you get X-rays, cosmic rays.
01:12:06.000And stuff below natural light, they say, well, as long as it doesn't heat up your cells, that's typically the standard our government uses, it's safe.
01:12:15.000So as long as it's not heating your cell, but that's not, that's a very old standard, but it's still the one in effect today.
01:12:23.000So in any event, when you think about microwaves, they said stay away from it, even those below natural light.
01:12:30.000There's, you know, what is the cumulative effect of being, if you put your Wi-Fi right under your bed every night your whole life, what is the effect?
01:12:39.000There are numerous studies that show that it does have certain effects.
01:12:42.000But anyway, it's not worth going down that road.
01:13:02.000Every environmental insult has the potential to cause some kind of dysregulation in your body, whether it's microplastics, whether it's you name it, okay?
01:13:11.000And the precautionary principle would indicate that until you know it's safe, the onus is on those who want to expose you to it to prove to you it is, right?
01:13:22.000I don't think anybody has to prove to you that Wi-Fi is not safe to say, you know what, based on the precautionary principle, I'm just going to turn off the Wi-Fi every night in my house because I don't know.
01:13:31.000Like, that doesn't seem unreasonable to me because humans have been exposed to forever.
01:13:37.000I've not seen the studies that validate that it doesn't cause an issue or large robust studies.
01:13:42.000And so, you know, but obviously, I think what I just said, some people might hear and go, well, that sounds crazy.
01:13:51.000Why would it be crazy if we found out that there's a particular frequency that's bad for your memory or bad for your brain and that we're using it to broadcast something?
01:14:01.000Yeah, except that I never think about harms the way you just said it because that would indicate that we have to find out what harms it causes.
01:14:10.000To me, when I go into a car dealership, for example, I walk in and the salesman says, all right, this car.
01:14:35.000And that is become a little bit of the, depending on the, mostly for vaccines, but a little bit for some of these other products where it's like, you got to prove it's not safe.
01:14:43.000No, I don't have to prove it's not safe.
01:15:30.000No one told them that x-rays can give you cancer and fuck you up.
01:15:33.000And these poor ladies, every day, when they would show up at the medical office, they would put their hand in the x-ray machine to make sure it worked.
01:15:40.000And then you see their hands next to each other.
01:16:20.000And there was a false story about his death and in the newspaper they called him the merchant of death and he realized it and he was like, oh shit, I got to change my PR.
01:16:33.000And so he came up with the Nobel Prize.
01:16:35.000He started awarding this prestigious prize.
01:16:37.000And then instead of him being connected with blowing people up with dynamite, he became connected with the most prestigious prize in all of medicine and all of government and the peace, the Nobel Peace Prize.
01:16:54.000It's amazing when you have money, how you can influence the world to think certain things about, in his instance, him, in others, certain products.
01:17:05.000But what's really stunning is you're also allowed to influence the people that actually deliver the news, which is, you know, that's the crazy one.
01:17:22.000But they're also ensuring that this steady stream of revenue that's going to these networks, they won't be opening up any lines of investigation into the vaccine injuries.
01:17:45.000You're not going to hear much about anything.
01:17:47.000It has to be a big fucking story where they have to say it or they'll just mention a judgment real quick and then move on, moving on.
01:17:56.000The Rasmutan poll, I don't know if you remember this one, found that I believe one in four, and I think that's right, but I'm not sure 100%, people said they believe they knew somebody that died of COVID vaccine or knew somebody that died of COVID vaccine.
01:18:11.000When you have that many people with that, with that lived experience, and yet the mainstream media, as you just said, was still able to continue to push the narrative around COVID vaccines the way they did.
01:18:27.000Nobel Prize-related lobotomy refers to a 1949 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine awarded to Antonio Agas Boniz, a Portuguese neurologist, for developing the prefrontal lobotomy.
01:18:40.000I believe that continued until the 60s, by the way.
01:18:43.000Yeah, imagine that he got that prize in 49.
01:18:46.000Meaning the medical profession, as it stood in the 60s when the measles vaccine was rolling out, still doing this, by the way.
01:18:53.000I think they stopped lobotomies in 60, was it 67?
01:18:57.000He developed something called a leucotomy, which was slightly different than what became known as the lobotomy, which we know as like the ice pick method.
01:19:30.000Seems to be you can maybe end up in the same place.
01:19:32.000It's just hard to recommend a certain amount of it.
01:19:35.000It's like how much Twinkie should you eat a day?
01:19:38.000I don't mind if you eat Twinkies, but if you're eating Twinkies all day long, you're going to be fucked up, man.
01:19:42.000And that's how I feel about social media interactions.
01:19:46.000But I do think it's an important way to distribute information.
01:19:51.000Say if you're working for some corporation and you know something fucked up is going on and you could put it up on Twitter and with details and facts and people could look into it and you can open up a line of reporters and investigative journalists that are going to find this, expose it, and you could really break a story that is like good for everybody.
01:20:12.000Like having a way to communicate ideas like that is fantastic.
01:20:17.000Everything else, like all the arguing, all the shit that people do back and forth, you're just rotting your brain out.
01:20:23.000And we're all guilty of it if you're on it.
01:20:26.000I mean, during the COVID pandemic, when all of these government overreaches were occurring, but for the existence of social media, you know, podcasts like yours and other alternative platforms, right?
01:20:40.000The information in many respects wouldn't have come out if you didn't have Peter McCull on, Robert Malone on, and if Fox and just that little portion of the, I guess, more traditional media wasn't willing for a time period to have folks on.
01:20:56.000I mean, trust me, when I started doing vaccine-related work a decade ago, I never thought a single outlet, whether it's Fox or CNN, would ever have me on.
01:21:04.000And they had me on numerous times until vaccines kind of like, all right, let's not touch that again.
01:21:10.000Was this during this during the Biden administration then?
01:21:13.000And I think part of that was because it was a point of contention between the right and the left, right?
01:21:19.000It was the right opposing the draconian measures that the left who is in power, and we got to get the right back in power because we're all about freedom.
01:21:28.000Yeah, so I think there was a little bit of that going on there, right?
01:21:31.000For sure, there was some of that going on, as you pointed out, I believe in the past, when Trump was promoting the vaccine, we're not taking that vaccine.
01:21:40.000And in the moment, Biden was like, we're taking the vaccine.
01:23:10.000Half of them said they were going to keep it.
01:23:12.000The other half immediately lifted the mask mandate on planes.
01:23:15.000And those that decided to keep it, they dropped it within a day or two, I think, or something like that, really rapidly because economically they were losing business.
01:23:23.000And I think that changed the center of gravity on that issue.
01:23:26.000I think Elon buying Twitter X basically changed the center of gravity on censorship, whereby without that, they might have all just kept going even in the worst direction.
01:23:40.000And they saw they were losing market share to X once he bought it and he didn't have censorship.
01:23:47.000Well, it was also indicative of how people actually felt versus what was suppressed.
01:23:53.000Like when you realize that there's, well, have you ever seen how people identifying as non-binary and trans dropped off like right after the purchase of Twitter?
01:24:06.000It's because people got a chance to talk about it now.
01:24:35.000What happened was Elon bought Twitter and people were out to actually accurately gauge what people were willing to tolerate and what they actually want versus what's being shoved down everybody's throats with censorship and with mainstream media narratives.
01:24:49.000They just keep piping back and forth, pretending everybody agrees with them.
01:25:24.000And one of the things you realize if you have children is that they are very malleable and they want to fit in and they are subject to social contagions.
01:25:35.000And that social contagion can be dressing up, golf.
01:25:42.000And if you just decide, oh, you're a boy, and then you bring that kid to it, and you're giving them all this positive attention, and you're giving them all this positive feedback.
01:25:51.000And then you go to school, I'm trans now, and everyone says you're brave.
01:25:54.000Like for awkward kids, that is absolutely enticing.
01:25:59.000And not only that, they do it in clusters.
01:26:01.000Like Abigail Schreier has written about this.
01:26:03.000That this is a lot of these girls have autism, and a lot of these girls are socially awkward and they're very uncomfortable with their body and they're going through puberty, which kind of freaks them out already, freaks out any girl.
01:26:14.000And then something comes along like this.
01:26:16.000And now you've been taken to a doctor and had your breasts removed and you're 15.
01:30:44.000The unelected bureaucrats sitting there and you name your alphabet agency that you've probably never heard of that pass these regs that are the same force of law.
01:30:55.000And who really has, again, the time and inclination to influence them?
01:31:02.000So it starts as a good idea, but unfortunately it ends up being what the literature calls, this is the political science literature, came out of Harvard and Yale and all those places.
01:31:14.000They don't want to talk about it today, captive agencies.
01:31:21.000CDC, FDA, and very much are, to varying degrees, depending on what they're doing, are very much captive agencies when you look closely at it and you understand it.
01:31:32.000That's true of many other parts of the government.
01:31:36.000Well, particularly, people don't know, a lot of people don't know, haven't gone down these rabbit holes, that a lot of these people, it's a revolving door.
01:31:45.000They leave the FDA and then they go and work for the pharmaceutical drug companies and they make a lot of money.
01:31:52.000Like Julie Gerberding, who was the head of the CDC in the 90s, that oversaw some of the most controversial disputes about what, whose products, Merck's vaccine products.
01:33:34.000It's something to the effect of, well, you know, those who are working at the FDA, you know, they're eventually going to come work for industry.
01:33:43.000So they don't want to, you know, hurt industry too much.
01:33:47.000And the person asking the question says, well, you think that's bad?
01:33:50.000He goes, yeah, it's bad for America, you know, but not bad for the companies.
01:33:57.000Well, this is the thing about having an obligation to your shareholders, which brings me back to the whole stock market thing.
01:34:02.000I know this is a kooky thought, but I mean, if we never had the stock market in the first place and you didn't have an obligation to your shareholders to consistently make more money every quarter, if people could just accept the fact that you own this business, this person, you make a certain amount of money, everybody's doing great.
01:34:18.000Like, why have all these people making money just moving stocks around insane amounts of wealth, manipulating systems to crash stocks?
01:34:28.000And there's people that are like in public office that say things that aren't necessarily true, that influence the market.
01:34:36.000And then it turns out they were totally wrong.
01:34:38.000And then you find out that they bet on it and they made a bunch of money in the stock market.
01:35:20.000It's just moving numbers where they've got high-speed computers that are trying in micro fractions of a second to beat out the other guy to basically triage and make money based on that adds no value to our economy.
01:35:37.000And everything you see around that we're sitting in right now is made by a company, right?
01:35:43.000And so, and I'm not aware of a system that has been more efficient at producing products and services that improve the lives of others than the free market system with some regulation.
01:36:16.000Yeah, I'm saying that that part of it's good.
01:36:18.000Now, when you break the alignment of economic self-interests of the companies, the market interest, to whatever it is, protect consumers, that's when you have a problem.
01:36:32.000And that is the idea, or at least they sell it as the idea from a lot of government regulations.
01:36:39.000Well, the company is not on its own going to do what's right in this instance.
01:36:56.000But the system often breaks when they step in when they're not needed, and sometimes when they step in and have the opposite effect, when they're really just protecting the industry at the expense of consumers, which happens too often.
01:37:11.000Is the benefit of the stock market, and this is again nonsense, right?
01:37:17.000But if we had never invented it, if human beings had never come up with this idea, if instead we just had a free market, what has the stock market, what has publicly traded companies, what has the ability to own stock companies and hedge funds and all that stuff, what has that done for innovation and for progress and for creating more products?
01:37:40.000Do you think it's encouraged more products and encouraged more activity in the economy and we're further ahead than we would have been if no one had invented it?
01:37:49.000Because it seems like at the very least, it's a weird opening for people that just move money around and add no value and extract enormous amounts of wealth.
01:38:02.000So that seems like you got a hole in your pipe.
01:38:04.000Like, why are people that aren't even involved?
01:38:07.000Why do they get to make all the money on this?
01:38:10.000You're doing a weird thing that I don't know if you had to do to achieve the same result that you achieved with a free market, capitalist society that doesn't have a stock market, that just has a bunch of companies making money and everybody doing the stuff they do.
01:38:24.000It's like, is it a necessity is what I'm asking.
01:38:30.000Well, outside of my expertise, but definitely outside of mine.
01:38:38.000This is just my off-the-cuff musings, and that's something I actually really want to think about more.
01:38:42.000But so when I think about companies going public, it certainly appears to help drive capital to those companies because venture capital funds, a lot of times they're exit strategy.
01:39:05.000I'm willing to give you all this money to start this company because I know at the, you know, my goal is three to five years from now, it can go public and I, the venture capital fund, can get back X amount of my money.
01:39:20.000That's my, that's the exit strategy for that investment.
01:39:24.000Now, if there was no efficient market to do that, right?
01:39:29.000Meaning you couldn't just have a publicly traded market where just easy to sell to have this public offering.
01:39:38.000What would that do to venture capital funds?
01:39:41.000Well, I mean, would they still invest as much?
01:39:44.000And instead, they might just focus on hard money returns.
01:39:48.000They want companies that really just make money, you know, cash on cash versus this immediate bubble of equity inflation that happens when you go public because it's now liquid, the ownership.
01:41:36.000But the question is, if a bunch of people are making money that aren't contributing, they're just siphoning money by moving money around all over the place.
01:41:53.000It seems like if that money was just being distributed normally, like the buying and selling of goods and services, that would be a much more honest society.
01:42:03.000But would it have the same amount of in would it have the same amount of innovation and would it have the same amount of productivity?
01:42:12.000Or is that productivity not just enhanced by this flood of capital, but also encouraged?
01:42:21.000So like having these vampires sucking on the pipe, like ultimately it does move numbers around and it gets more stuff out there, which also encourages innovation.
01:43:50.000But obviously, everybody had to know something was, there was some shenanigans taking place because the returns were too crazy.
01:43:56.000But look at how many intelligent people invested money with him because he was so successful.
01:44:03.000My old office in Manhattan, when I used to work at Latham Watkins, was I think three floors above Bernie's office in the lipstick building.
01:46:24.000But you wonder, like if people were motivated and people were ambitious, and we always have been, you know, like if that wasn't a part of our economy.
01:46:41.000But it's just the motivation of money is always going to be there.
01:46:47.000And if people ignore it because it's inconvenient and it doesn't align with their ideology, you've been captured.
01:46:55.000And this is why I think what you're talking about all the time is so hard for people that are true believers to swallow.
01:47:03.000Because it makes you have, you're forced to reformulate your entire worldview.
01:47:08.000If you've been duped that hard by something like the actual data on vaccine efficacy and who's really profiting and why it's set up the way it is and what the studies really are, when you realize you've been duped that hard, that's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of people.
01:47:28.000You don't need to go down a rabbit hole, okay?
01:47:30.000Because that happens to a lot of people with vaccines.
01:47:32.000I've seen not the majority, not most, but it happens to some where it's like, oh my goodness, if the government's lying or not telling me the truth about these products, then what can I believe?
01:47:46.000And, you know, people, some folks can go down some different alleys.
01:47:51.000And I would say that I would really, truly, I've not seen anything like vaccines.
01:47:57.000Vaccines really are in their own bucket because of that immunity.
01:48:00.000It's what I call original sin in my book.
01:48:02.000There really is no product, no product that I'm aware of that operates in this kind of landscape.
01:48:10.000Like I said, every other product, the market force will, to varying degrees with wrinkles, correct for the issues because there's economic self-interest.
01:48:42.000It went from three to 29 shots, including in utero.
01:48:46.000Now, with the recent changes, it's down to 19.
01:48:49.000And the reason I focus on the first year, most of the shots in the first six months of life, is that's when the baby is going through really critical stages of neurological, immunological development, right?
01:49:37.000Some data show over 50% of kids having chronic health issues, often multiple times the rate.
01:49:43.000And what are those chronic health issues that have exploded?
01:49:45.000To be sure, by the way, any environmental insult can cause dysregulation in the body, including a pharmaceutical product, including vaccines.
01:49:55.000But when you look at those chronic diseases that have exploded, almost all of them have an etiology relating to some form of immune system dysregulation.
01:50:20.000Now, I'd say, okay, the lawyers, those who would hold these companies accountable, would look at that, and then they would start looking at the data.
01:50:28.000And I'll show you what some of the data shows.
01:50:31.000We talked about the Amish earlier, for example.
01:50:34.000The Amish that I represent in New York, there's three schools.
01:50:38.000The New York Health Department decided that it doesn't like what the Amish beliefs are.
01:50:43.000It wants the Amish to adopt their beliefs and abandon their real religious beliefs and to give their kids these vaccines.
01:50:50.000Otherwise, they were going to impose crushing fines on these three Amish schools.
01:50:54.000Three schools, by the way, which means a room, no electricity, a teacher, you know what I mean?
01:51:28.000Anybody can go and read it for themselves.
01:51:30.000Amongst those children, you would expect to have, because like one in 10 kids approximately have asthma, you would expect to have like nine cases of asthma.
01:51:38.000You'd expect to have six cases this five kids.
01:51:41.000They have none, zero of the chronic health conditions plaguing kids in America today.
01:51:49.000And the approximately 10 or so studies that have been done, and I'm going to bring this back to my legal point, the approximately 10 or so studies that have done that compared kids with no exposure, meaning zero vaccines, to kids that have had one or more vaccines, show the same outcome.
01:52:05.000Kids with zero vaccines, almost none of the chronic health issues that face kids today in America.
01:52:11.000Kids with one or more vaccines, multiple rates of the chronic health issues facing kids today.
01:53:02.000Well, and so we can move on to what does the peer-reviewed literature show, if you want.
01:53:09.000But the follow-up question would be, are they even being diagnosed?
01:53:12.000So if they're getting Amish care and Amish teachers and Amish, is it possible that there are some kids that are just behaving odd that would be diagnosed?
01:53:52.000The notion that autism is just better diagnosed, and that's the only reason for the increase is, I don't know a better word for it than say nonsense.
01:54:05.000Even if you look at the, because they've changed the DSM-5, which is what we're up to, the diagnostic manual, that is the psychiatric manual that has the criteria for diagnosing autism.
01:54:19.000But when you even just look at severe autism, just severe autism, which California has very good data on, from the 70s and onward into today, it's exploded.
01:54:30.000So the notion that we just have better diagnosis is not a serious point.
01:54:35.000But putting that aside, the Amish do go to doctors.
01:55:11.000So in many respects, they do still go.
01:55:17.000But, you know, as I was told by one of the main folks who I interact with there, and I've been up there and I've slept there and I've interacted with them.
01:55:26.000He told me, he said, yeah, you know, there are a few that mistake, got some vaccines.
01:55:30.000And he goes, one of those kids, they just don't act right.
01:55:49.000When they're with their kids, they're with their kids.
01:55:53.000When they're there at the end of the day, they really are so much more in tune.
01:55:57.000When I spend time with them and when I went up there, I mean, it's incredible.
01:56:01.000You know, we have lost, it's a hard thing to experience.
01:56:05.000Maybe for somebody who keeps like maybe the closest thing I think of is like those who observe the Sabbath biblically, you know, so they're just totally locked in.
01:56:14.000They lock in with their families for a day or so or things like that.
01:56:17.000And so they're very in tune with their kids.
01:56:19.000They know if those kids have health issues.
01:56:21.000And those kids don't have those issues.
01:56:25.000Go to the rest of the kids in the other studies that are not Amish studies.
01:56:29.000The 10 other studies that I just told you about, one is three pediatric practices that have vaccinated, unvaccinated kids.
01:56:35.000There are a whole line of studies that have nothing to do with the Amish community.
01:56:39.000But if you do want to focus on autism, okay, which is just one potential issue from vaccines, by the way, what you find in the peer-reviewed literature is that 40 to 70% of parents who have a child with autism report, still report, that they believe vaccines cause their child's autism.
01:57:05.000That's after how much billions of dollars to try to tell them and gaslight them and convince them that it's not autism, that vaccines don't cause autism.
01:57:14.000Apparently, no matter how many you beat these families, they're just not going to change their lived experience.
01:57:39.000And so on behalf of ICANN, which is the Information Action Working nonprofit that our law often represents, we sent a Freedom of Information Act request, FOIA request, to the CDC.
01:57:51.000And we said, hey, your website says vaccines do not cause autism.
01:59:04.00019 of them have nothing to do with the vaccines given in the first six months of life.
01:59:10.000They were all either MMR studies or studies of an ingredient that wasn't in those vaccines.
01:59:15.000One of them was an Institute of Medicine review from 2012 that canvassed all the literature on whether DTAP vaccine does or does not cause autism because the CDC and HRSA, which is the agency in HHS that fights vaccine injury claims, asked the IOM to look at whether DTAP causes autism because it remained one of the most commonly claimed injuries still, according to them.
01:59:43.000And the Institute of Medicine came back and said we could only find one study on DTAP and autism.
01:59:48.000And in fact, it showed an association between vaccine, DTAP vaccine and autism.
01:59:53.000But the IOM threw it out because they said there's no unvaccinated control in it.
01:59:56.000So they threw out the studies based on VARES data, if you know what that is.
02:00:05.000And I said, I got the list of 20 studies.
02:00:11.000I said, are you sure that your client, the CDC, wants to settle this case basically on the basis that these are the studies they rely upon to claim that vaccines don't cause autism?
02:00:23.000That the vaccines in the first six months of life do not cause autism.
02:00:27.000Because that's what the lawsuit was about, that FOIA request.
02:00:30.000He went, he called me back, and he said, yeah, they want to settle it.
02:00:32.000I said, all right, I gave him another chance.
02:00:36.000Those 20 studies were put into a settlement agreement between the CDC and ICANN, my client.
02:00:42.000The DOJ signed it on behalf of the CDC.
02:01:17.000There is one study out there regarding Hep B vaccines and autism.
02:01:20.000It's from Gallagher and Goodman out of the University of Stony Brooks in the peer-reviewed literature.
02:01:24.000And it showed that kids that got Hep B vaccine versus those that did in the first month of life had three times the rate of autism, statistically significant.
02:01:32.000Gallagher Goodman, University of Stony Brook, it's on PubMed.
02:01:35.000That is the only study of Hep B vaccine autism you will find in the peer-reviewed literature.
02:01:39.000If you're going to do it based on the science, on the published literature, that's the only one out there.
02:01:43.000That DTAP vaccine study is the only one out there for DTAP given in the first six months of life.
02:01:48.000So when this narrative, which you hear all the time on these panels, on these news shows, vaccines do not cause autism, that has been thoroughly debunked.
02:02:12.000I wrote the book because in 10 years that I have litigated hundred, 200 lawsuits against federal and state health agencies, that I have deposed the world's leading vaccinologists, including Dr. Stanley Plotkin.
02:02:26.000You go down the list and chasing them when they're in a deposition, when their back is against the wall in a federal or state lawsuit, and they have no choice but to admit the truth or give the evidence, put up or shut up.
02:02:41.000What I have found is that the claims they make about vaccines versus the reality are completely different.
02:02:49.000When I came into this, had you told me, yeah, they don't have any studies that show vaccines don't cause autism in the first six months, I'd be like, you're crazy.
02:03:56.000He goes, Oh, okay, there are no studies.
02:03:58.000Okay, he goes, So I said, Shouldn't you wait until you do?
02:04:01.000Shouldn't you wait until you have the studies that show that DTAP doesn't cause autism to then tell parents that vaccines don't cause autism?
02:04:13.000I don't wait because I have to take into account the health of the child.
02:04:16.000He said, I said, So, for that reason, you're willing to tell parents that vaccines don't cause autism, even though you don't have the data to support it.
02:04:27.000And then I deposed in a case about vaccines and autism.
02:04:31.000It was about it, Dr. Catherine Edwards, who is one of the four, I guess, leading vaccinologists in the world, one of the four editors of the medical textbooks on vaccine, which is called Plotkin's Vaccines.
02:04:43.000I deposed her about vaccines and autism.
02:04:45.000And I said, Do you have a study that shows Hep B vaccine doesn't go to autism?
02:04:48.000This was after this court stipulation, the court order I told you about.
02:04:52.000She didn't have any for Hep B, for HIP, for the ones I just took the first six months of life.
02:04:58.000So, yes, they say on TV it's thoroughly debunked, but I'm telling you, that is a belief that is not science, that is not fact, it is not based on data, it is based on pure belief.
02:05:13.000And they say it just like they say, you know, Jesus Christ is Lord.
02:05:17.000I think they believe actually in vaccines more because they'll kick kids out of school in some archdiocese, even in some other Christian schools, far less.
02:05:27.000Most archdiocese won't, if the kid won't get vaccines.
02:05:30.000So, I actually think they believe in vaccines more than Jesus in some places, by the way.
02:05:36.000What an amazing job of gaslighting and propaganda they've done.
02:05:40.000But I just want to, I just got to be clear because anybody here in this might think that that just sounds crazy.
02:05:46.000But I implore anybody who heard me say that, pull up the court order yourself, look at it yourself, watch the depositions, go to PEBMed, see for yourself.
02:05:57.000Oh, and by the way, do not rely on AI because I've done this fun job with them.
02:06:01.000Like, I'm like, Do Hep B vaccines cause autism?
02:06:04.000It's been thoroughly researched, and there's no studies.
02:07:05.000Grok's better, by the way, better, but it's bad too.
02:07:09.000And they will say, you know, on all of these questions, they will make stuff up.
02:07:14.000And unless you know, like, I know the universe of studies, I know what's going on.
02:07:18.000Let me ask you this: do you think that these large language models are programmed with certain truths that they can't fight against?
02:07:28.000Or do you think it's because they're pulling from so much bullshit on the internet and so many bullshit narratives on the internet from trusted sources that'll tell you that vaccines don't cause autism?
02:07:38.000Like there's a ton of major newspapers, major magazines, there's a ton of them that have talked about how it's been thoroughly debunked.
02:07:47.000And then they'll quote doctors and scientists that don't list any specific studies, but they'll say we've done exhaustive studies, they've been thoroughly debunked.
02:07:55.000They'll say that, and then they'll print that.
02:07:56.000And so is the AI just pulling from so much bullshit online that it looks through all the noise and says, like, 89% say vaccines do not cause autism, therefore it must be true.
02:08:11.000Or is it programmed to say, hey, this is what you say?
02:08:27.000I appreciate the compliment so far on that score.
02:08:29.000With that said, I mean, I don't know the answer, but I will speculate because I don't know the answer.
02:08:40.000I'm going to guess, I'm really guessing that it might be a mix of some programming because Google, for example, if you go and you search for Aaron's Siri Substack, you get Paul Off at Substack.
02:09:47.000And through that, especially during election times, they can take a lot of people that are undecided voters and swing them a very noticeable number.
02:09:57.000Like, I forget what the number was, but it's a large percentage: 10%, 20%, something like that.
02:10:01.000So, if you Google something about, say, Hillary Clinton, for instance, during that first election, you would get all these positive articles.
02:10:08.000If you Google Trump, you would get all these negative articles.
02:10:11.000And if you asked it certain things, it would give you things that were completely contrary to that.
02:11:17.000This was actually literally just a few days ago.
02:11:20.000Well, I think one of the things that Robert Epstein, because he's been on my podcast, been on multiple podcasts, but he's been talking about the dangers of these curated search engines and how it's essentially election rigging.
02:11:32.000Like you're manipulating a statistically significant number of people to one side or the other, and you could do it by curating search engines.
02:11:39.000Well, the experiment we just did might reflect that my first theory might be less of that, right?
02:12:36.000But I would speculate that the probably bigger component is the who's got, again, it comes back to who's got the money to understand how these AI algorithms work and to maybe put the stuff out there that it's going to most likely read from.
02:12:51.000I mean, when you do AI, you can get that, I see that like crazy scroll of all the things it's looking at, right?
02:12:57.000So, if I've got, if I am a pharma company and I've got a multi-billion dollar budget every year to influence and to market and so forth, you know, I'm going to deploy that in the way that's probably the most effective.
02:13:10.000One of the things I probably would do is maybe do the things that would influence the results on AI.
02:13:19.000But especially if there's no regulations.
02:13:21.000That's the weird thing about curating search engines.
02:13:24.000If it's like your search engine, you can kind of do whatever you want, especially if your company, like, wasn't it like one of the major tech companies after Donald Trump won in 2016 that had a meeting, they were like, we can't let this happen again.
02:13:50.000Like, the idea that you can somehow or other stop someone from being elected if the public wants that person to be elected because you disagree with it is kind of a crazy thing to say out loud.
02:14:02.000Well, you know, I'm thinking more about your question.
02:14:05.000So when we found that thing with Paul Offitt, when we found that thing with Paul Offitt a few days ago, my social media manager and my, I've got a, you know, got a lot of folks at my law firm, and we have somebody who does like Google AdWords stuff and SEO stuff.
02:14:19.000And then we have another guy who does the web-related stuff.
02:14:23.000I know they did some things, and maybe with my little measly budget, it had that effect.
02:14:29.000And so, Matt, so that would go to my second point that with enough dollars, and who cares about my, I mean, I don't think pharma cares about my substack.
02:14:37.000Trust me, they're not scared of my substack.
02:15:10.000Well, no, I think that, you know, they had brought up doing like keywords and stuff like that because there were some emails about, I remember trying to fix it.
02:15:36.000It's no different to me than curating information on social media platforms based on whatever your ideology is.
02:15:42.000Like, I don't think you should be able to do that in terms of like, I don't think the company should be able to tell you you can't see certain things.
02:15:49.000And YouTube was terrible about that during the pandemic.
02:15:52.000All the things that turned out to be true could have got you banned from YouTube.
02:16:13.000And now it's everybody, literally everybody.
02:16:14.000And then it became this weird fucking, everybody did these weird mental gymnastics where they started repeating, oh, but it stops hospitalization and death.
02:17:01.000They don't realize that they are creating more vaccine hesitancy with that kind of conduct than anything that you and I could do on this podcast at all.
02:17:14.000You know, the CDC webpage on vaccines and autism has now been updated, and it says now that there's effectively no studies to show the vaccines in the first six months of life do not cause autism.
02:17:25.000And that we have missed, that the CDC has misled the public on that score.
02:17:30.000And people trashed, the mainstream media trash Bobby for that, while instead of celebrating it as an opportunity to correct course of transparency, honestly, people are more likely to trust our federal health agencies when they're honest, when they're apologized, when they're willing to admit mistakes.
02:17:49.000They're not there yet, though, unfortunately.
02:17:51.000No, because it's still a part of their political ideology.
02:18:10.000You know, depositions I've taken of vaccinologists, pediatricians, infectious disease experts, and immunologists, where I will say something about this.
02:18:18.000You know, these studies show that, for example, the studies show that children that have had cancer and measles have lower rate of cancers and they'll go out.
02:18:37.000You know, they've already reached that a priori conclusion.
02:18:40.000I remember my deposition, not to go back to autism, of Dr. Edwards, where I said to her, You have any studies that show the Hep B vaccine does not cause autism?
02:19:25.000And it's all when the entire, when you have a company, like whatever company it is, whether it's Google or Facebook or whatever, and that company operates on an ideology that's not grounded in reality, and then they enforce it across their platform, it's very frustrating and really nutty to watch.
02:19:42.000And just thank God there exists some alternatives.
02:19:46.000Like you would need a crazy person worth a ton of money, like Elon, to just go and buy it.
02:19:52.000And then also show, hey, it's still the number one platform for distributing information.
02:19:57.000In the same way that what Elon did for social media, if he could do that for search, that'd be great.
02:20:36.000And like, it's almost like you're talking to an expert.
02:20:39.000So instead of it being like something that I use to think for me, it's like a super smart friend I'm bouncing questions off of.
02:20:47.000And you could find so much about things so quickly, as opposed to having to go through article after article after article, and like, and that's what I'm looking for.
02:20:55.000What did Court, how did he trick those people and give them up their land?
02:21:36.000But the more that technology has been adopted into classrooms, it appears the more detrimental it has been and actually the markers of what you would consider an educated or education or intelligence.
02:21:54.000But if you're using AI, the one thing I will say, depending on the topic, but you probably should do it for all topics, is never just rely on the output.
02:22:07.000Especially if it's something controversial.
02:22:09.000I mean, generally, I'm asking questions about something I'm looking up that's not that controversial in terms of like whether or not it's argued.
02:23:39.000Yeah, but I do think facing the opinions and the views, substantive opinions, views of those that don't agree with you is an important exercise in life and in any, in every area, frankly.
02:23:51.000I mean, I'm, you know, when it comes to the work that I do, you know, I welcome having debates with those who claim they are the vaccine experts.
02:24:01.000I mean, I'm well, this is, we're talking about a very different kind of thing than looking at yourself.
02:24:05.000Yeah, you're looking up hardline data.
02:24:07.000And it's very important what you do because it's crazy to say that being honest in this regard is courageous, but it is courageous because I've seen you attacked.
02:24:18.000I've seen crazy shit that people said about you.
02:24:22.000And it's like, good Lord, are you paying attention to what he's actually saying?
02:24:26.000Or are you some bot from somewhere, some fucking bot farm in Vietnam that's been hired to push a narrative?
02:29:23.000I said, because look, at the end of the day, If you don't address this, if you don't address this issue, I said, history is not going to remember you for the good.
02:29:33.000History is going to remember you for all the harm you cause.
02:29:36.000Because when people look back in history at products that cause devastating harm, which vaccines can do, they don't remember the good those products did.
02:29:44.000They remember the harms that people ignored, that were overlooked, and those were just cast aside.
02:29:52.000So of course I posted both letters on my sub stack and I tweeted them out.
02:29:56.000So this way I figured they could do some good that way.
02:29:59.000So they're available to everybody to read.
02:30:01.000Well, I think it's a very unique time that this message can get out there.
02:30:09.000Because what they did when they removed liability and they gave them blanket protection like that, they opened up the door to a bunch of people that really don't give a shit about you.
02:30:23.000They just want to make as much money as possible.
02:30:40.000So you have this weird, contradictory world where you have like some amazing pharmaceutical drugs that helped so many people and kept people alive and cured diseases.
02:30:50.000And then you got the money people who want everybody to get shot up because it's going to make them more money.
02:30:56.000And those two working together is a very bad mixture, especially when you have mandates.
02:31:03.000Then you mandate that these people have to be able to inject you and inject your children with this thing that's going to make them money and they have zero liability.
02:31:11.000Like, how could that possibly go well?
02:31:14.000Knowing what you know about human beings, who would sign off on that?
02:32:10.000The government, through a program, literally pays for half of all vaccine guarantees payment to the pharma companies, even if people cannot pay.
02:32:36.000It's just, so you're right, it's perverse.
02:32:38.000But this thing that you're just saying before about like the money men who want to just make money, like, look, we live in a capitalist system where we have tapped into that self-interest, but we try to harness it for good.
02:32:56.000So every company has that to some degree.
02:32:59.000You know, people have that to some degree.
02:33:01.000But the idea with capitalism is, yeah, but you got to channel that and you got to do good.
02:33:39.000I'll get locked up for the rest of my life, especially if he killed a bunch of people, which is really crazy that none of these people do wind up going to jail.
02:33:46.000They pay giant criminal fines and then they slip away.