The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2477 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard

00:00:02.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

00:00:03.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:12.000 Gentlemen, great to see.

00:00:14.000 Yeah, put them on, slap them on.

00:00:15.000 What's happening?

00:00:17.000 Good to see you, gentlemen, again.

00:00:19.000 Taking off.

00:00:21.000 One more time.

00:00:22.000 Yeah, one more time.

00:00:23.000 Yeah.

00:00:24.000 So, what is the latest?

00:00:26.000 Give me the latest.

00:00:28.000 Where are we at?

00:00:29.000 Why don't you take it, Brian?

00:00:30.000 You just kind of.

00:00:32.000 You are the.

00:00:34.000 You're the most current on where we are, what's going on.

00:00:37.000 Man, there has been a lot of stuff happen in the 15 months since we were here.

00:00:42.000 I mean, like, a stunning amount of stuff.

00:00:44.000 So let's not waste any time.

00:00:45.000 Tell them where we're at.

00:00:46.000 All right.

00:00:47.000 Well, the last time we came to visit with you, I believe, was on December the 27th, 2024.

00:00:54.000 We were just on the front end of having organized 30 committed Texans whose own families had had experiences related to trauma, addiction, alcoholism, and the wounds of war.

00:01:06.000 who, after hearing a plan that was developed for the state of Kentucky to bring Ibogaine to the American people as an FDA-approved medication and breakthrough treatment for addiction and trauma, committed themselves to using their time, their talent,

00:01:22.000 and their network to achieve what had never been done before, and that was to convince an individual state to undertake drug development to create a therapeutic medical breakthrough for public health crises within its borders that are representative of the national reality.

00:01:39.000 After you released the interview with us on January 2nd, 2025, we pursued a five and a half month blistering campaign to convince 188 blank slate Texas legislators to fund the single largest psychedelic research and medical development project in history that being the $50 million Texas Ivigate Initiative.

00:02:06.000 We had the assistance of some in state allies, one of which was Texans.

00:02:11.000 For greater mental health, led by a dear friend and brother of mine, Logan Davidson, who was my right hand, going to meet with legislators continuously while I set up shop at a hotel here in Houston and lived here just about part time, wearing the shoe leather off, sweating, and making sure that everybody who needed to be introduced, educated, and motivated to get behind this would do so.

00:02:35.000 At the end of this five and a half months, we secured the votes of yes.

00:02:42.000 of 181 out of 188 legislators between the Texas House of Representatives and State Senate, there was one individual who we had to persuade at the eleventh hour to get behind this project.

00:02:55.000 On May 14, 2025, just 36 hours before the Texas budget was finalized, this bill that would create the first unified FDA drug development trial with ibogaine in U.S. history was not funded.

00:03:11.000 I woke up that morning and I believe very much in keeping your prayers in the closet as Jesus taught and not getting out there parading about it.

00:03:20.000 But on that morning, I got a call and it was, hey, we're getting to the 11th hour.

00:03:26.000 We don't have money to secure this.

00:03:28.000 It may not make it.

00:03:29.000 We've done everything that we can.

00:03:31.000 And I literally got down on my hands and knees and said, God, please let this happen.

00:03:37.000 And if it cannot happen, help me understand why.

00:03:42.000 Three hours later, I got a telephone call asking if I could go and meet with the Texas House Speaker and Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick.

00:03:49.000 I went at 4.30 in the afternoon on May the 14th and spent an hour with these two gentlemen going back and forth about what this project was, why it was so existentially necessary for Texas and the country.

00:04:02.000 And on Friday morning, May the 16th at 10 a.m., we got a text message from Lieutenant Governor Patrick confirming that he would approve and fully fund the Texas Cyber Gain Initiative.

00:04:13.000 As we walk in here today, literally just 10 minutes before we walked into your studio, I can confirm that the great state of Texas is going to fully fund the Texas Cyber Gain Initiative, originally intended to be a public-private partnership, but now has decided on its own.

00:04:36.000 To commit a full $100 million to launch the development of Ibogaine all the way through the FDA's drug development process for the benefit of the American people.

00:04:49.000 To do so on its own, without any drug development partner, and to do it for the good of humanity.

00:04:57.000 That's phenomenal.

00:04:58.000 So, what did you have to say to Dan Patrick to convince him of this?

00:05:01.000 And kudos to him for doing this.

00:05:03.000 Well, I had some very wonderful advocates who preceded my meeting.

00:05:09.000 Was he skeptical?

00:05:10.000 Oh, he was completely disengaged from the process, highly skeptical as we learned through intermediaries.

00:05:16.000 But we had two wonderful brothers on mission who happened to be twins, Marcus and Morgan Luttrell.

00:05:25.000 I know Marcus very well.

00:05:26.000 Marcus and Morgan Luttrell reached out to the lieutenant governor.

00:05:29.000 They spoke to him very movingly and personally about their own experiences with IBAGAIN, what it had done not just to save their lives, but what it was doing to save the lives of warfighters who had Come to the end of being able to live.

00:05:44.000 And as they explained to him what it did for them and what it has done for their brothers and sisters at arms who've returned to war, to broken government systems that can do nothing to cure what ails them at their core, he was persuaded to have an open minded conversation.

00:06:03.000 And through that conversation on May the 14th, we essentially went through what.

00:06:08.000 Science suggests the powers of the most sophisticated molecule on the planet to resolve physiological substance dependence and thereby create psychology within the human being whereby they believe they have ownership of themselves and their future and that that future will be one defined by choice rather than compulsion.

00:06:27.000 And the most powerful aspect of the Ibogaine argument, not just for the Lieutenant Governor and House Speaker, but for most of these legislators who voted yes, is the experience endorsed by many that Ibogaine.

00:06:41.000 confirms without question the reality of our individual human divinity, and that is the greatest truth conveyed by this fabulous plant.

00:06:52.000 Well put, and I don't think it's just Ibogaine that confirms that.

00:06:55.000 I think you could say the same about many other psychedelic drugs that are unjustly maligned and treated as if they're an escape from reality.

00:07:05.000 But in the interest of this being a standalone podcast where people don't know what Ibogaine is and don't understand the efficacy of it and how Unbelievably effective it is at especially treating addiction.

00:07:19.000 Could you please just go over that?

00:07:21.000 Yes, sir.

00:07:23.000 So, Abigail is an alkaloid that is derived from the Iboga shrub.

00:07:28.000 The Iboga shrub originates in the central Congo basin.

00:07:33.000 Its native country is modern day Gabon.

00:07:36.000 It is the mother country of the Iboga shrub, which has been used for centuries in the spiritual and cultural traditions of the Buiti, a group of spiritualists who include.

00:07:48.000 The Pygmies, as well as the Bantu tribes that lived there in Gabon.

00:07:53.000 In the early 60s, it was discovered that Ibogaine and Iboga had a significant interruption effect on opioid addiction.

00:08:03.000 There was an individual who had been addicted to heroin for a number of years.

00:08:07.000 They took Ibogaine, and not only did they not experience any withdrawal when they stopped taking heroin, they stopped having any desire to use any drug whatsoever.

00:08:18.000 This touched off.

00:08:20.000 60 years of open-label field studies that are mountains high and decades wide that firmly establish that Ibogaine has a unique and singular interruption capacity on physiological substance dependency, whether that's opioids, alcohol, methamphetamine, cocaine, or tobacco.

00:08:44.000 Recent evidence also suggests that it has a significant interruption effect on compulsive behaviors, anything that kind of impacts that brain's dopamine system and produces a rush.

00:08:54.000 Particularly gambling.

00:08:55.000 Yes, sir.

00:08:56.000 Now, in 2018, U.S. Special Forces special operators started going to Mexico for treatment of symptoms of traumatic brain injury expressed through treatment-resistant depression, anxiety, and suicidality.

00:09:11.000 Many of these veterans had gone through the VA system.

00:09:15.000 They had been given an unbelievable amount of synthetic pharmacology that, in their end effect, essentially anesthetizes the soul.

00:09:25.000 and slowly euthanizes the body.

00:09:27.000 And they were at the end.

00:09:28.000 So as they were going to Mexico and would get Ibogaine treatment, they came back with these just unbelievably just powerful recovery results that seem too good to be true.

00:09:42.000 So there were some scientists at Stanford University that were funded by a philanthropist who wanted to understand what was going on.

00:09:50.000 And so what we have come to learn through a Stanford research study on traumatic brain injury for vets is that Abigail has remarkable neuroregenerative capacities on the brain that are unheard of in the annals of Western science.

00:10:06.000 And while information is still very small in amount, And preliminary, there are individuals who have had IBGAME treatment for not just traumatic brain injury, but for multiple sclerosis, Lyme disease, Parkinson's disease, post surgical complications related to the removal of brain tumor who endorse a restoration of functionality and an ability to live that are otherworldly.

00:10:34.000 And as we recognize that the opportunities to improve the human condition at scale are multi lifetime and appearing, we believe that we have found one of those.

00:10:45.000 And if we're going to do justice to the human species, it is incumbent upon us to take what appears to be a promising therapeutic improvement and deliver it with speed through the U.S. medical systems.

00:10:59.000 And that's what Governor Perry and I have founded Americans for Ibogaine to do.

00:11:04.000 Just that.

00:11:05.000 Achieve the moonshot of our time.

00:11:07.000 And that is to bring Ibogaine medicine to the American people as quickly as possible.

00:11:13.000 And thank you again, Governor Perry, because if it wasn't for your involvement in this, I think a lot of people would be far more skeptical.

00:11:13.000 Well said.

00:11:24.000 You being a former distinguished governor of the state who is a Republican, generally speaking, most people think of Republicans as being anti psychedelics and that this whole thing is just a bunch of people trying to escape reality and poison their mind and tune out of society and become losers.

00:11:43.000 That's the general consensus of people that are. 0.90

00:11:47.000 Just for lack of a better term, ignorant of the effects of these substances.

00:11:52.000 They don't understand it.

00:11:54.000 But if it wasn't for you, your open mindedness, your willingness to engage in this and try to understand it and to speak to these veterans, I don't think people would be taken into seriously.

00:12:07.000 So thank you.

00:12:08.000 Well, and thank you.

00:12:10.000 As I've watched you over the last 15 months, it seemed like every six weeks or so, you'd have a guest on here and you'd be talking about.

00:12:21.000 Ibogaine in particular and what is the progress that we're making.

00:12:25.000 What comes up so often?

00:12:27.000 Well, and it should.

00:12:28.000 It should.

00:12:29.000 It should because this truly I mean, this is not what I came into the world for.

00:12:35.000 This is not what I came to politics for.

00:12:37.000 This is what I got led to this through that relationship with Marcus and in turn Morgan Luttrell and seeing those two boys literally, particularly Marcus, on the doorstep of committing suicide.

00:12:51.000 When he came to live with us at the governor's mansion in 2007, we had met the year before just by the grace of God.

00:12:58.000 And I told him, I said, if you're ever through Austin, come by and see me, knowing that the chances of that would be pretty slim.

00:13:06.000 He knocked on that guard door in May of 2007 and said, the governor said, if I was ever through here, come by and see him.

00:13:14.000 They called.

00:13:15.000 I let him in for dinner.

00:13:17.000 And my wife, who's a nurse, she recognized this young man who was really troubled.

00:13:23.000 Addicted to opioids, masking it with alcohol, really sick.

00:13:29.000 And for the next two and a half years, he lived with us at the governor's residence.

00:13:34.000 And that started this long journey, literally, with him and trying to find ways to heal him.

00:13:34.000 Wow.

00:13:45.000 We sent him to a host of different places Carrick Brain Center in Dallas.

00:13:48.000 We sent him to what's called now Axios, Athletes Performance in those days, but a great.

00:13:56.000 Rehab facility down in the panhandle of Florida.

00:14:00.000 And they helped him conquer or helped him manage the opioid addiction.

00:14:07.000 I will suggest to you until he was treated with Ibogaine, which did clean that completely away from him some years later.

00:14:18.000 But the point is, he really struggled and he has become like our son.

00:14:26.000 As a matter of fact, I talked to him this morning.

00:14:28.000 He said, Be sure and tell Joe Howdy for me.

00:14:30.000 He just thinks the world of you as well.

00:14:33.000 I talked to his brother the day before.

00:14:35.000 They understand how powerful this compound is from the standpoint of treating post traumatic stress, traumatic brain injury, addictions.

00:14:46.000 I mean, this and as I became convinced, one of the things that I will say that I've been I've been open to change, just like criminal justice reform. 0.98

00:15:01.000 In the early 2000s, I was kind of like lock their ass up, throw the key under the jail. 0.97

00:15:05.000 You know, you break the law in the state of Texas, here's how we treat you. 0.99

00:15:10.000 And I had a district judge in Fort Worth, John Cruz, a Democrat district judge who I knew and had been friends with.

00:15:20.000 He said, Governor, we got a program here that allows these individuals who have broken the law, you know, they maybe, you know, got caught with an illegal substance or what have you.

00:15:33.000 And rather than sending them to jail, sending them to the penitentiary where they become professional criminals, We give them a second chance.

00:15:44.000 We put them in a rehab program.

00:15:46.000 We put them in a treatment center.

00:15:47.000 We put them in a boot camp.

00:15:50.000 Give them these options rather than sending them to prison where they're going to become professional criminals and the recidivism rate is going to continue on.

00:16:02.000 I'm kind of like, nope, I'm tough on crime.

00:16:06.000 That's what us Republicans do.

00:16:08.000 But it really got me thinking.

00:16:10.000 I mean, I am curious minded about.

00:16:14.000 Concepts and ideas.

00:16:16.000 So that brought me to having conversations, and long story short, that single conversation led to Texas leading the nation with criminal justice reform.

00:16:32.000 Texas Public Policy Foundation, that now Secretary of Agriculture Brooke Rollins was operating in the mid to late 2000s.

00:16:44.000 They came on board, saw this, supported it.

00:16:47.000 We passed it through a very Republican, very conservative legislature, and Texas led the nation in criminal justice reform, saved us billions of dollars.

00:16:59.000 We stopped building prisons.

00:17:01.000 We stopped sending people to prison where they were becoming professional criminals.

00:17:06.000 So that template, if you will, was what we took to Donald Trump in 2018.

00:17:16.000 He was just like me initially.

00:17:18.000 I'm tough on crime.

00:17:20.000 I'm.

00:17:22.000 But he was open, he was curious.

00:17:25.000 Brooke Rollins, interestingly, had come up and was his domestic policy advisor at that time, and she made the pitch, and he was open.

00:17:35.000 That conversation led to him being open to federal criminal justice reform.

00:17:42.000 Today, there are people who you may have different ideas about President Trump and what have you, I know that's the case, but on this issue of criminal justice reform.

00:17:55.000 This man was curious, he was open minded, and he's made a real difference in people's lives following the Texas model.

00:18:04.000 The reason I share that with you as an example, that's where I was on these compounds, these drugs, these psychedelics.

00:18:15.000 I mean, I grew up in the 60s, Timothy O'Leary using LSD, marijuana, any of that kind of stuff.

00:18:23.000 I mean, it was anathema to me, absolutely and totally.

00:18:27.000 I don't want to have anything to do with it.

00:18:29.000 This is Crazy stuff.

00:18:31.000 You get in trouble.

00:18:32.000 They'll throw you in jail.

00:18:33.000 You'll jump off of buildings.

00:18:35.000 I mean, you.

00:18:36.000 Every story that you can imagine that people.

00:18:36.000 Right.

00:18:40.000 And then think about from the 60s forward how, you know, I went into the Air Force.

00:18:47.000 They, you know, we took drug tests at least monthly.

00:18:54.000 So the idea of being involved with a drug was just totally and absolutely not on my radar screen.

00:19:01.000 These are bad things.

00:19:02.000 And we're reinforced.

00:19:04.000 In the 80s with Mrs. Reagan.

00:19:07.000 Just say no to drugs.

00:19:08.000 Here's your brain on drugs.

00:19:10.000 I mean, we have been browbeat as a society for 60 years.

00:19:16.000 And when you add to it what Nixon did, President Nixon did in the late 60s, early 70s with his war on drugs, he hated hippies, he hated blacks, and one of the ways you could go after them was to go make these compounds Schedule I, which he did.

00:19:35.000 Schedule I says, There is no medical purpose for it, and it is highly addictive.

00:19:42.000 Ibogaine fits neither of those.

00:19:44.000 Ibogaine is not an addictive compound by any sense of the imagination.

00:19:48.000 It's also absolutely not a recreational compound.

00:19:51.000 At all.

00:19:52.000 It's not something that someone's going to do at a party.

00:19:54.000 We are proving without a doubt to the Texas legislature, to legislatures across this country, in Mississippi, in Tennessee, in Arizona, West Virginia, that it does have a medical purpose, that there are some extraordinary things that can happen for their citizens who have.

00:20:12.000 PTSD, who have sexual trauma, who have addictions, I mean, saving lives by the thousands, hundreds of thousands, I will suggest to you, when this is approved across the country and we see it as a relatively easily studied and accessed by medical care compound.

00:20:35.000 So that story of seeing these two young men.

00:20:45.000 Who have given everything, literally, up to willing to give their lives, and a lot of their friends did, for our freedoms and our liberties in this country.

00:20:57.000 And for us to say to them, oh, sorry, you can't have access to this because, you know, President Nixon said this was bad stuff back 60 years ago.

00:21:08.000 And it was taken off the shelf as a Schedule I drug, put over here, and for 60 years, Americans have suffered through.

00:21:18.000 So many different eras.

00:21:23.000 The late 90s, when the Sackler family and Purdue Pharma come along.

00:21:29.000 And we literally, I think one of the most demonic things I've seen in my public life is this family who used oxycodone and sold it to America as this be all to end all.

00:21:45.000 And then our federal government in the mid 2000s.

00:21:49.000 We didn't know how to deal with these young men who would be put in these horrible conditions and positions of being at war time after time after time, rotation after rotation, tempos that we'd never seen before in the history of mankind.

00:22:07.000 I'll suggest to you.

00:22:08.000 I mean, Joe, we were at war for 20 years, 20 years during that period of time.

00:22:14.000 There's special operators that were deployed eight, nine, ten times.

00:22:20.000 And then they come home, and the governor gives them a sack of opioids, and that makes them feel crappy, and they mask it with alcohol.

00:22:29.000 And we sit around and go, Why did Bobby kill himself?

00:22:35.000 Well, because the government failed in its great responsibility to take care of these young men and women, in my opinion.

00:22:43.000 So we owe it to them.

00:22:47.000 As a matter of fact, a dear friend of mine who just passed away within the last two days, he had worked with me for, gosh, 30 years.

00:22:59.000 And when he first saw that I was getting involved with this psychedelic drug, this Ibogaine compound, and we were having a conversation, he said, You need to be really careful with that.

00:23:18.000 You've got a great reputation.

00:23:19.000 You've spent 40 years building that reputation up.

00:23:21.000 You said you don't want to throw it away on some cockamamie idea here.

00:23:27.000 And I told him, I said, well, I don't think I'm doing that.

00:23:31.000 I've studied this pretty intently.

00:23:33.000 I've talked to a host of different people.

00:23:38.000 And I said, so I'm comfortable about the science here that I'm seeing and what have you.

00:23:45.000 And I said, I think it's worth going forward with.

00:23:49.000 I said, Ray, their lives are not worth more than my reputation.

00:23:57.000 And that's.

00:23:58.000 That's what kind of continues to drive me.

00:24:01.000 There are people that still kind of say, Why are you doing this?

00:24:04.000 Because I believe in it.

00:24:05.000 I mean, I believe it to the point, Joe, that I'm willing to risk my reputation.

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00:25:33.000 I don't think you're risking your reputation at all.

00:25:35.000 I think that's. 0.98

00:25:37.000 Foolish thinking. 0.97

00:25:38.000 I think it's people that don't understand the times. 1.00

00:25:42.000 This is a different world.

00:25:45.000 We're living in a world of information now, and you can't go by these false narratives that were adopted in the 1970s.

00:25:52.000 And we're winning.

00:25:53.000 I mean, I'm telling you what Americans for Ibogaine has done.

00:25:56.000 And, you know, we started out, I tell people, I said, you talk about a small group of people.

00:26:00.000 I think there were six of us.

00:26:01.000 He's the CEO, I'm the chairman.

00:26:03.000 We got Dr. Ruland, who's the secretary.

00:26:07.000 Ann Claire Stapleton, the communications person, and then Marcus and Melanie Luttrell, Marcus's wife, are the other two members of our little board.

00:26:18.000 And we were this small little group kind of going along and doing what we were doing.

00:26:22.000 We were successful in the Texas legislature and what have you.

00:26:26.000 But it's exploded now.

00:26:29.000 We have ambassadors, Americans for Ibogaine ambassadors, all over the United States now.

00:26:37.000 People have seen what we've been able to do in Texas.

00:26:42.000 Mississippi followed suit.

00:26:43.000 They've sent their governor a piece of legislation.

00:26:46.000 I want you to talk about that.

00:26:47.000 We're going to do the roll call here in a minute.

00:26:49.000 Yeah, and share with Joe and his audience just the great progress that's being made.

00:26:58.000 And quite frankly, I think about Michael Dell when he was selling computers out of the trunk of his car back in the late 80s and then his college dormitory.

00:27:09.000 AFI kind of found itself like that.

00:27:13.000 Just a few months ago.

00:27:14.000 And I'm not trying to say that, you know, we're Dell Computer today, but we are growing at such a leaps and bounds and, you know, and having the resources that we need to be able to put our people in various places.

00:27:27.000 I mean, he's the travels all, you were in Cabo.

00:27:31.000 I want you to tell him about the group that you met with in Cabo and, I mean, just 200 of these extraordinary people down there.

00:27:37.000 He travels all over the country.

00:27:39.000 And, you know, we have to have the resources to be able to do that.

00:27:44.000 And, you know, So I hope the folks that are listening go to Americans for Ibogaine.

00:27:51.000 You know how to tell them how to do that and help this organization because this is what I'm going to do the rest of my life.

00:27:58.000 I'm 76 years old, and this is what I hope the Lord gives me a lot of years to make a difference because I know for a fact that what we're doing today, what you're helping us with, is making a difference.

00:28:12.000 And if we can get these clinical trials to the conclusion, and thank you to the Lieutenant Governor and to the Speaker for what they committed to today.

00:28:21.000 I mean, to know that we're going to be able to go forward now with these clinical trials to show the world exactly what we know.

00:28:31.000 But so that the naysayers out there, the skeptic, can look at that and go, you know what?

00:28:37.000 You can get 85% of the people who are hooked on opioids clean in 72 hours.

00:28:45.000 Isn't that amazing?

00:28:47.000 That's such a stunning thing to me.

00:28:49.000 Dr. Gull Dolan, we were at South by Southwest a week and a half ago.

00:28:54.000 She was sitting on the stage.

00:28:55.000 She's an MD, PhD, was at Johns Hopkins.

00:28:58.000 She's over at Cal Berkeley now.

00:29:02.000 And she gave a little.

00:29:04.000 Primer, if you will, on the different psychedelics.

00:29:11.000 There's a critical period that the mind opens up, and you're able to go in, and if you will, the medicine treats the mind.

00:29:20.000 I think, for Miyagi, non pharmaceutical, non scientific mind here, but to go in and repair, reset the brain.

00:29:31.000 The technical word is neuroplasticity.

00:29:34.000 But Ketamine has a critical period, I think she said 48 to 72 hours.

00:29:47.000 Psilocybin has a critical period from 14 to 28 days.

00:29:55.000 I think I'm pretty close on these.

00:29:57.000 But Ibogaine, the critical period, the time when that neuroplasticity is active and the brain can be trained, healed, reset, is from 90 to 120 days.

00:30:14.000 And then with the addiction, opioids, which I happen to think is one of the most addictive substances that's out there.

00:30:21.000 I mean, this is some horrible stuff.

00:30:24.000 You know, this very current event with Tiger Woods and Tiger's accident, and he had Oxycontin in his.

00:30:34.000 I'm not judging here, but I'm just kind of saying that may.

00:30:38.000 When I ran for president in 2011, I'd had major back surgery in July.

00:30:43.000 I announced that I was running for president in August.

00:30:46.000 I had six weeks to try to get over that major back surgery, and I had a terrible condition called.

00:30:53.000 A neurological hyperfusion in my right leg.

00:30:56.000 I've never had a pain like that.

00:30:58.000 It felt like a blowtorch going down my right leg.

00:31:01.000 And they gave me Oxycontin.

00:31:04.000 And I was taking that to cover up the pain.

00:31:06.000 I was taking Ambien to go to sleep at night.

00:31:08.000 And I was taking some stuff called Pro Vigil to get back up in the morning and be focused.

00:31:14.000 I laugh about it now.

00:31:17.000 I'm surprised I did as well as I did in that presidential effort in 2011.

00:31:22.000 Hell, forgetting that one thing, that third thing in that debate.

00:31:26.000 I was going to hell, I'm surprised I could remember any of them, knowing what I know now about Oxycontin and the incredibly nasty, addictive nature that it has.

00:31:38.000 I mean, this stuff is just poison.

00:31:42.000 And I began in 48 to 72 hours after one dose, one oral application of this compound.

00:31:59.000 And that addiction is gone.

00:32:02.000 Not only is that addiction gone, Joe, but Stanford has done functional MRIs on an addicted opioid brain and then treatment with Ibogaine.

00:32:19.000 And they have shown that brain from the addicted look that those experts, those postdocs that look at this, To a normal brain, a normal brain scan in 72 hours.

00:32:37.000 If you were to go through the normal process of healing yourself of opioid addiction through an abstinence program, it would take you 18 months.

00:32:52.000 And there are very few, I'm going to say single digit people that are successful in being able to do that.

00:32:57.000 But think about that.

00:32:58.000 We've got a compound here that has the ability.

00:33:02.000 To heal people of opioid addiction in 48 to 72 hours and and And we're not doing everything that we can in our power to make that available?

00:33:17.000 I mean, what the hell's wrong with us?

00:33:19.000 How bad you got to hate people to not make that available?

00:33:23.000 And with two doses, it's even more spectacular.

00:33:27.000 98%.

00:33:28.000 That is amazing.

00:33:31.000 98%.

00:33:31.000 That is truly amazing.

00:33:33.000 There's nothing even remotely like it with standard practice addiction therapy.

00:33:39.000 Nothing.

00:33:41.000 You know, he mentioned the Americans for Ibogaine.

00:33:43.000 We have.

00:33:44.000 ambassadors and Joe what you really helped us do on January 2nd of 25 was create a movement.

00:33:53.000 Our organization is the custodian of that movement.

00:33:56.000 We are a public policy and advocacy organization and Governor Perry mentions keeping me on the road.

00:34:02.000 Wherever there are state leaders, citizens of conviction and influence, whether that is California, whether it's Massachusetts or whether it's Alabama, we exist to plant the seed of a scientific understanding, Of a public policy framework and of a spiritual understanding of the significance of what we have in our hands here, an opportunity to improve the human condition at scale.

00:34:27.000 And while we have talked tightly about IBG's impact on substance dependency and upon the wounds of war, our ambassadors reflect essentially the universal human condition and the way in which individuals who have tried every way to overcome various forms of trauma and debility find as the last step, a redemptive restoration through Ibogaine treatment.

00:34:56.000 It is not for everybody.

00:34:57.000 It should not be a first resort.

00:35:00.000 It is an exceptionally powerful medication that comes with a series of side effects that are highly unpleasant, as you previously mentioned.

00:35:10.000 One of the selling points, ironically, in the Texas legislature was to say, you know, if your idea of a good time is being in a state of semi-paralysis for 12 to 16 hours and throwing up continuously through the process, you're going to have a real good time.

00:35:26.000 And if there is the equivalent of being brought to the judgment throne of God on this side of life, it is an Ibogaine experience. 0.59

00:35:34.000 That seemed to motivate a lot of support, especially for those who subscribe to puritanical notions of punishment for wrongdoing.

00:35:41.000 That's not what I'm here to advocate, but certainly it is not fun.

00:35:46.000 But what we know is that, for instance, we have two fashion model twins whose father sexually abused them for a decade.

00:35:58.000 And the results of that horrific experience that they shared produced all kinds of psychological maladies that included an eating disorder for one, persistent neuroses in the other.

00:36:12.000 They tried every form of talk therapy.

00:36:14.000 They tried every psychotherapy modality known to try to overcome that.

00:36:19.000 And it was Ibogaine that restored their lives and their capacity to enjoy the life that God has given them.

00:36:27.000 We have first responders who are emerging in numbers.

00:36:31.000 One who is a firefighter from Oklahoma who was demoted because of decades of alcoholism.

00:36:36.000 His life has been restored by Abigail and he's back working full time.

00:36:41.000 We have a gentleman who was a Charlottesville police officer who was hit in the face with a brick during the riots that occurred in Charlottesville.

00:36:51.000 His life was restored by a single Abigail treatment and he has attained a level of functionality that he didn't think was possible, nor his doctors.

00:36:58.000 We have a gentleman who was a pilot.

00:37:03.000 Who unfortunately did a bomb and run on a village and killed a number of innocent people.

00:37:08.000 He learned about this, and this sent him into a spiral, as many war fighters who are exposed to moral injury do.

00:37:15.000 Ibogaine has restored this gentleman's life.

00:37:18.000 We have a gentleman by the name of Robert Gowry, a former NFL player who exhibited all the signs of CTE in his post retirement years.

00:37:29.000 He was ready to kill himself so that he wouldn't harm his own family.

00:37:33.000 It was Ibogaine that restored his life.

00:37:35.000 There have been other NFL players who are as yet unnamed, some incidentally that have been in the paper who have gone for Ibogaine treatment to address similar symptoms.

00:37:45.000 Players in the NHL, players in other contact sports that include soccer and rugby and the United Kingdom, where there is an emerging cohort of professional athletes who have reached out to us to say, we want the United Kingdom for Ibogaine.

00:38:00.000 I would love to get you guys connected with the UFC.

00:38:03.000 We would love to be connected to the UFC.

00:38:06.000 Because that is obviously an issue.

00:38:08.000 With professional fighters.

00:38:09.000 So, Hughes, Matt Hughes, and Matt had, I met Matt through Marcus, gosh, in like 2008 or so, and we went out for a fight.

00:38:21.000 And then subsequently, Matt had, I think, a car accident, of which he really had.

00:38:29.000 He was hit by a train.

00:38:30.000 Yeah, just an incredible traumatic brain injury.

00:38:35.000 And I just want to have that conversation with him, and I'm sure you have.

00:38:42.000 Great relationships with those.

00:38:44.000 We know for a fact that cumulative impacts on the brain are what lead to CTE.

00:38:54.000 I mean, that's I don't think that's even a question of here's how it happens.

00:39:00.000 These multiple concussions have a cumulative effect on the brain, and at some point in time, that CTE has a long time effect.

00:39:14.000 And this medicine.

00:39:19.000 Has the ability to remove that trauma, to reset that brain, to heal that brain.

00:39:27.000 I don't know how it works, Joe, but that's the reason these clinical trials are going to be so important as we're going forward.

00:39:34.000 And I can't tell you, I'm ecstatic that the lieutenant governor and the speaker today announced their full Texas support behind these clinical trials.

00:39:47.000 We're fixing to become the epicenter.

00:39:51.000 For a movement that literally can change the world.

00:39:54.000 I know that sounds kind of a little bit over the top, but if we have within our grasp here a compound that can heal our loved ones who have an addiction, be it a substance addiction or be it a non-substance addiction, if we have the ability to heal people who have been traumatically impacted by concussions,

00:40:20.000 if we have the ability to address PTSD and all the different forms that it comes.

00:40:26.000 I mean, the hope that that can give to the society that we live in, and I'm not talking about just the United States.

00:40:34.000 You think about what's going on in Israel, in Ukraine, in the Middle East today, and the trauma that people are facing.

00:40:44.000 I mean, this truly can be an extraordinary gift to the world.

00:40:48.000 And, you know, I – listen, I think it's really interesting.

00:40:52.000 You ask a leading question about How did I come to this position of being able to be supportive as I am?

00:41:05.000 And when I think about my growing up, and I grew up in a very conservative Christian family.

00:41:16.000 And I think one of the challenges we still have in our society is that the conservative Christian faith is like, stay away from my stuff. 0.86

00:41:31.000 I mean, that's bad.

00:41:33.000 Do not, under any circumstances, don't be going there.

00:41:37.000 It's demonic.

00:41:41.000 There's a book that's about to be published.

00:41:45.000 I think the first week in April, so we're approaching it.

00:41:48.000 There's an author by the name of Wendy Reese, R E E S, Wendy with an I, W E N D I R E E S.

00:41:58.000 She, not unlike the two twins, Was sexually assaulted by her own father.

00:42:07.000 Who's a pastor of a church? 0.81

00:42:09.000 Joe, I'm telling you, brother, I can't dream up in my worst nightmare a more evil thing than a father that would sexually assault their daughter. 0.97

00:42:21.000 A preacher father. 0.97

00:42:22.000 Their daughter.

00:42:24.000 And she dealt with it with Ibogaine and has come to the conclusion that her great gift to give to the world out there is to write this book called A Christian's Guide to Psychedelics.

00:42:39.000 Now, if you think that won't catch some people's attention when they're going through the bookstore and they go, a Christian's Guide to Psychedelics, holy mackerel. 0.51

00:42:47.000 But this is a book about her experience, but it's also a book that I would suggest that every believing Christian.

00:42:58.000 Go pick it up and read it because it talks about chapter and verse and gives you scripture about where God talks about these compounds, about these things that He's given the world.

00:43:09.000 He means them for good, all of them for good.

00:43:13.000 Are you aware of the scholars in Israel that are proposing that Moses, seeing the burning bush, was the acacia tree?

00:43:23.000 Yeah.

00:43:24.000 There's an acacia tree.

00:43:25.000 The acacia tree, which is very common in the Middle East, is rich in dimethyltryptamine.

00:43:31.000 And they believe that what they're trying to relay in this story was that Moses encountered God through the burning of this bush.

00:43:43.000 So the burning of this bush, releasing the psychedelic compound, dimethyltryptamine, allowed Moses to bring back the Ten Commandments.

00:43:53.000 You know, thank you for mentioning that.

00:43:56.000 I have been following scholarship around the use and the recognition that there's a lot of psychedelic allegory in Holy Scripture.

00:44:05.000 That, I think, is the favorite, where that burning bush reveals the great I am.

00:44:11.000 And when Moses says, who are you?

00:44:14.000 I am who I am.

00:44:16.000 And the beauty about Ibogaine and the other plant medicines are their capacity to reveal the I am that is within each of us.

00:44:24.000 And that I am is our eternal creator who absolutely has engineered and placed these plants on this earth so that we can be affirmed in what our true identity and ultimate destiny is.

00:44:36.000 And praise God for it.

00:44:39.000 Then there's also the Sacred Mushroom in the Cross, the John Marco Allegro book, where he was one of the ordained ministers that was his task was to decode the Dead Sea Scrolls.

00:44:52.000 He wrote this book that details what he believes is the use of psychedelic drugs in ancient Christianity.

00:45:02.000 I'm hard for me to argue with.

00:45:04.000 I mean, I just think our modern perception of it, which is very tainted by what happened during the Nixon administration where they were trying to squash the hippie movement, the anti war movement, and the civil rights movement.

00:45:18.000 That's why they demonized these drugs and these compounds. 0.75

00:45:21.000 That's why they put them in this category of having no medicinal use, which is clearly not accurate.

00:45:28.000 It doesn't mean that they should just be given to everyone and everyone should do them with no restrictions and no regulations.

00:45:34.000 It just means we should understand that.

00:45:38.000 They have a long history of human use and have spectacular results on all sorts of things that our society is suffering from greatly.

00:45:48.000 And to just pretend that that's not the case based on what happened in the 1970s is just insane.

00:45:55.000 It doesn't make any sense.

00:45:57.000 I would suggest that one of the greatest lessons learned by Americans who are age 50 and younger, those of us who I call the bicentennial children, is that the most morally depraved criminal in America today. is power.

00:46:13.000 And the power of the human hand, when it is wielded in its most abusive context, will always seek to deny any access to individual human divinity and the liberty and autonomy that is conferred upon each of us as children of God.

00:46:29.000 And insofar as we find ourselves at the precipice of what I believe is the emergence of a broad-based spiritual movement where all of us modernists within the empiricism of modern American society are able to see through the fog of all of our wealth and gadgetry and recognize We are in the midst of profound spiritual famine in the United States.

00:46:53.000 You, I know, and forgive me for referencing age, remember back in the mid-80s where we saw all these horrific images of starvation and dissension, distension,

00:47:09.000 and fly-covered death from mass famine in Ethiopia and Sudan, where millions of people starved to death because the malevolence of power forbade the delivery of any relief sent by the outside world.

00:47:28.000 When we look at what's right in front of us in the United States today, there is no denying that we are in the midst of a terrible spiritual famine.

00:47:42.000 And the malevolence of American power is feasting on our starvation.

00:47:48.000 This is an emancipation movement for the mind, Body and soul of every human being in this country and across the globe who is lethally estranged from their own spirituality.

00:48:03.000 The Abigail Mission is a mission to foment dramatic medical breakthroughs across a host of conditions that have no effective therapeutic answers.

00:48:14.000 But above and beyond that, it is about the affirmation of the spiritual essence of life that can unify us as a species in a way that is necessary if we're going to navigate.

00:48:26.000 These changes over the next 20 years.

00:48:29.000 Governor Perry mentioned this wonderful invitation that I received to go to what was called the Earth One Summit.

00:48:39.000 Joe, I come out of Hillbilly Holler, Virginia.

00:48:42.000 And it's a.

00:48:45.000 I do.

00:48:47.000 I introduce him from time to time.

00:48:49.000 I said, look, this guy, he looks like and he sounds like a hillbilly from eastern Kentucky in the Appalachian Mountains. 0.55

00:49:00.000 And I said, he is.

00:49:02.000 But I said, he's one of the most brilliant people I've ever met in my life and one of the most extraordinary orators I've ever had in my life.

00:49:09.000 So, anyway, I wanted to.

00:49:11.000 I love you, brother, but you are a hillbilly. 1.00

00:49:15.000 I'm much more comfortable with that than all that other stuff you said.

00:49:19.000 But when you come out of scratch nothing sometimes, there are certain sophistications that you lack, and I'm no exception to that.

00:49:26.000 So there was this Earth One Summit.

00:49:29.000 It was 200 thought leaders from across the world who came to basically discuss the future.

00:49:35.000 And I was very honored to have received an invitation to come and attend the gathering to speak about what Governor Perry and I are working on through Americans for Ibogaine, and they presented me with the honor of being the closing keynote speaker for the gathering.

00:49:52.000 And as I listened over the course of four days, I heard individuals who included Kimball and Christiana Musk, and I've read interviews by Elon Musk speaking about the advent of AI and the capacity of AI to solve the central dilemma that we as humans have had since we emerged from the caves, and that's the dilemma of scarcity.

00:50:17.000 So as I was there listening to folks speak about being on the edge of a time when we can automate the means of production and essentially create an unlimited amount of abundance for every person on this planet, I couldn't help but think about where we are right now as compared to where these individuals see us being in 20 years.

00:50:47.000 You cannot create and deploy this kind of godlike technology, which has the capacity to produce unlimited abundance, potentially usher in the age of Aquarius, and drop it in to these Frankenstein monstrosity government systems that we currently have that are enthroned upon the helplessness of powerless people,

00:51:17.000 that perpetuate problems that they are supposed to solve, and that monetize sustained human misery.

00:51:24.000 So long as government makes its buck over keeping its foot on the necks of the American people, we are looking at a future that much more resembles Mad Max than we are Star Trek.

00:51:36.000 And if we are going to create the degree of social cohesion that is necessary to hold these systems accountable and to create a system that can truly usher in that age of unlimited abundance to improve the human condition for all, it begins with a spiritual reawakening That I began first and foremost, and the rest of the psychedelics concede and foment within American society.

00:52:02.000 To that end, and then I'll be quiet for the next little bit.

00:52:04.000 You're good, man.

00:52:07.000 We love listening to you.

00:52:08.000 There is a six part docuseries that will come out next year called Psychedelics and.

00:52:15.000 It is a series of interviews with a cross section of leaders across the United States where they speak about their own quest for meaning and how psychedelics has helped them understand that.

00:52:30.000 We are more than just these material beings that get up and go to work every day and are a productive economic unit, go home and repeat.

00:52:38.000 That there is a much higher sense of purpose that we are here to serve.

00:52:41.000 And that the plants themselves have the capacity to enlighten us at scale in a way that's absolutely necessary if we're going to make that age of abundance happen as those visionaries articulate and dream for.

00:52:56.000 What I think is fascinating about the age that we're living in is that Change comes very slowly, but it comes much faster when you have the kind of access to information that people have today.

00:53:08.000 I don't think this conversation was possible 20 years ago.

00:53:11.000 No way.

00:53:12.000 That's kind of amazing.

00:53:13.000 No way.

00:53:14.000 It's kind of amazing.

00:53:15.000 I don't think there was a format for this conversation 20 years ago.

00:53:19.000 This format has occurred because of the age of information, because of the internet, because there's no gatekeepers anymore, and because people have the choice to decide what they want to consume, what they want to listen to.

00:53:35.000 To be able to be a part of that to me is an incredible privilege.

00:53:40.000 And to be able to have you guys on and to have this conversation and to recognize that the reason why this is possible is because, for lack of a better term, the world's waking up.

00:53:52.000 Yes, sir.

00:53:53.000 It's just taking more time than we would like.

00:53:56.000 But the world is waking up.

00:53:58.000 And change happens.

00:54:00.000 It just happens.

00:54:02.000 People have to change their opinions.

00:54:06.000 That's very difficult because a lot of people identify with their opinions.

00:54:11.000 Their opinions become a part of their ideology, and it's just very difficult to get people to change their ideology.

00:54:19.000 They identify with this, it is them.

00:54:23.000 I've always tried to tell people the way I try to approach things you are not your ideas, you are not your opinions.

00:54:31.000 These are just thoughts, and if you identify with them, you are trapped in them.

00:54:36.000 And you will be held hostage by them.

00:54:39.000 You will try to defend them, even if they don't make sense.

00:54:41.000 You will try to ignore evidence that points you in a direction that's contrary to what your current belief system is.

00:54:48.000 Don't be your opinions.

00:54:49.000 Don't be your ideas.

00:54:51.000 Just sit in them.

00:54:53.000 Be consistent.

00:54:55.000 Be honest.

00:54:56.000 Have ethics and morals that you adhere to.

00:54:58.000 But the ideas are just ideas.

00:55:01.000 And if you're wrong, you should be proud to say you're wrong.

00:55:05.000 It's a sign of growth.

00:55:06.000 It's a sign of intelligence.

00:55:08.000 And it's a sign of you being an honest human being who cares about the truth, not about being right.

00:55:15.000 Because there's too many people in this world that they don't really have conversations.

00:55:19.000 They have ideological sparring matches where they're just involved in these little intellectual tugs of war where they're just trying to be right.

00:55:32.000 This is not the time for that.

00:55:34.000 It's just so my going from hard no on criminal justice reform to literally a leader on criminal justice reform in the mid-2000s,

00:55:51.000 my going from hard no on any psychedelic drugs that could be used in any way to now being what I humorously refer to as Referred to as the Johnny Appleseed of Ibogaine, is to your point.

00:56:08.000 You know, be Be open.

00:56:13.000 Be willing to say you were wrong.

00:56:15.000 I know my wife would like to hear me do that more often. 0.95

00:56:19.000 But hey, if you don't mind, I want to take a minute and talk about how far this movement has come.

00:56:29.000 And Brian talked about Americans for Ibogaine and our ambassadors all across the country and the growth that we've seen in this.

00:56:38.000 And I want to give you one example of, to your point, that.

00:56:43.000 Five years ago, if you had had an institution that had its own reputation dealing with brain health and brain science and those kind of things, they would have just kind of moved you off to the side and said, you know, no thanks.

00:56:58.000 But the Center for Brain Health in Dallas, this is an extraordinary institution that's connected to the University of Texas Dallas.

00:57:08.000 Matter of fact, it's just next door to UT Southwestern, which is one of the great medical facilities in the world, UT Southwestern.

00:57:16.000 And Dr. Sandy Chapman heads up the Center for Brain Health.

00:57:22.000 And they've done some great work.

00:57:25.000 We went up and presented to her, I don't know, probably 60 to 90 days ago.

00:57:32.000 And there was another organization called.

00:57:38.000 Forward intent.

00:57:40.000 Forward intent.

00:57:42.000 Just a beautiful young man and his wife, Alex Duran, and his wife, who have funded an effort.

00:57:53.000 And what they're doing with their resources, they're sending, I think, 250 individuals down to Mexico to both, I think, a facility called Transcend and to Ambio.

00:58:08.000 And Ambio is that.

00:58:10.000 Facility that I've been to, Brian's been to, Marcus and Morgan Luttrell have been to, I think probably 2,000 more fighters have been down to Ambio now.

00:58:21.000 Vets underwrite them.

00:58:24.000 And just as an aside, this has blown up so big.

00:58:30.000 And I'm talking about the Ibogaine effort, the education of Ibogaine.

00:58:34.000 People, you know, there's some hope out there.

00:58:38.000 And people are rushing to find where they can go to, you know, to treat the addiction that their loved one has or deal with their PTSD and what have you.

00:58:46.000 And Ambio is just covered up.

00:58:50.000 And I'm sure, you know, the other facilities are as well down there.

00:58:56.000 The organization Vets, which is really where I came into this, I think Amber and Marcus Capone.

00:59:04.000 They don't have any openings anymore.

00:59:06.000 I mean, they are completely covered up.

00:59:10.000 But I mean, that's a good challenge.

00:59:11.000 I'm glad we have that challenge.

00:59:13.000 But my point is you've got an institution in Dallas, Texas, that just like the state is getting the signal it's okay to be out there talking about this, it's okay to be a leader, it's okay to get out there and lead the charge.

00:59:31.000 And I want to read to you what Dr. Chapman said.

00:59:36.000 Because I asked her, I said, Do you mind if I talk about what you all are doing?

00:59:40.000 And she said, Absolutely.

00:59:41.000 And she said, Governor, great to talk with you yesterday.

00:59:44.000 Here are some comments to guide you and how to discuss our existing collaboration.

00:59:50.000 I'm excited to announce that we have begun a partnership with the Center for Brain Health, the University of Texas at Dallas, Americans for Ibogaine, and Forward Intent to create the largest research study of Ibogaine to date, focused.

01:00:08.000 On understanding its impact on the brain among the veteran community.

01:00:12.000 Dr. Francesca Philby, an expert in cognitive and translational neuroscience, especially the use of neuroimaging to study brain behavior relationships, will lead the research.

01:00:25.000 Our mission together is to move beyond the question of Does Ibogaine help? and instead answer the more practical questions veterans and clinicians need.

01:00:35.000 Number one Who benefits and why?

01:00:38.000 How long do the benefits last?

01:00:41.000 Which aspects of daily life functioning, i.e. cognition, sleep, substance use, and overall well-being, improve or worsen following treatment?

01:00:52.000 And how are these changes associated with brain alterations?

01:00:56.000 The three-year study will follow those treated with Ibogaine over the course of 18 months, which will allow us to create the first understanding of the sustained impacts of Ibogaine on the brain across various treatment regimes.

01:01:12.000 We'll be diving more into this topic on November the 19th at the Center for Brain Health's Brain Health Presents Speaker Series to share more.

01:01:23.000 By bringing world class scientific rigor to this space, we aren't just studying a substance.

01:01:29.000 We're creating a foundation of knowledge that will expand safe, informed access for those who need it most.

01:01:38.000 That is what Americans for Ibogaine. Is really all about making that type of penetration, having that type of success, seeing what Brian and the other folks have created here in the state of Texas.

01:01:57.000 I'm going to tell you something, brother there is nothing that I've been involved with in my life that gives me more pleasure than to see what we're doing and knowing.

01:02:16.000 That there's a father out there.

01:02:22.000 mother out there whose child's going to be saved.

01:02:30.000 You mentioned dogma.

01:02:32.000 People are, in particular in American society, there is a quest for identity.

01:02:39.000 There is a quest for belonging.

01:02:42.000 So much of what we see on social media and in broadcast media that is rage and anger and disaffection is tremendous loneliness and a tremendous lack of Of belonging to something and a tremendous amount of trauma related to never having had anything that resembles unconditional affection within the context of a safe and stable familial relationship.

01:03:07.000 That's at scale within the United States.

01:03:10.000 And the degree to which dogma can thwart evolution is 100 percent right on.

01:03:15.000 And I just use my own self as an example.

01:03:20.000 I was a child of Reagan's America.

01:03:23.000 I can remember I was about.

01:03:25.000 five years old when he and president carter had their first presidential debate in 1980.

01:03:30.000 President Reagan was like the mother Goose to the Goslin he just imprinted on me, and whereas other young boys had pictures of Joe Montana and Michael Jordan and Michael Jackson all over their rooms, mine was wallpapered with Ronald Reagan.

01:03:47.000 I was the president of the teenage Republicans in high school.

01:03:51.000 I wrote him fan letters all the time.

01:03:53.000 He actually replied to one and I put it in a a frame in my room.

01:03:58.000 It was written on my birthday.

01:03:59.000 I was president of the college Republicans at George Mason University, and I mean, I aim to be the king of conservative Republican conformity.

01:04:09.000 That was my whole mission in life.

01:04:11.000 And I used to joke that when people said, Well, how did you get to this?

01:04:16.000 And what do you think about the fact that you're talking about it and you're so zealous in your advocacy?

01:04:21.000 I would kind of make a half statement and say, Well, if 25-year-old me could come and see 50-year-old me, he would look and say, What in the world happened to you?

01:04:31.000 And I would kind of yuck and yuck and laugh about it.

01:04:33.000 Well, here's the answer.

01:04:36.000 If 25-year-old me could come back and look at 50-year-old me and say, what happened to you?

01:04:42.000 50-year-old me would look right back and say, you happened to me.

01:04:48.000 You happened to me.

01:04:51.000 Your youthful sense of certainty, your belief that you had it all figured out, your belief that you had no further greater evolution to achieve, sir, you, in your insolence of youth, you happened to me.

01:05:05.000 One of the things that I have so enjoyed learning about Governor Perry as he and I have built relationship, the first time I really started following him was when he ran for president in 2012.

01:05:17.000 And I believe that had he not had that back surgery, we would not have had a second Obama term.

01:05:23.000 He would have won that race, and I think he would have won it handily.

01:05:27.000 It's been remarkable to listen to this gentleman who has been so firmly identified with the conservative wing of the Republican Party be so willing to be curious and to have that human value of curiosity and a willingness to hear and a willingness to know and a willingness to entertain that.

01:05:45.000 Perhaps everything that he had been taught about this particular subject was not correct.

01:05:51.000 Curiosity is a prime human value.

01:05:54.000 And if you allow dogma to shut off your curiosity, you have hobbled yourself.

01:06:00.000 And I think it was Muhammad Ali who said, if a 50-year-old man thinks the exact same way as a 20-year-old man, as he did when he was 20, he's wasted 30 years of his life.

01:06:12.000 And that is dead-on-right.

01:06:14.000 Dead-on-right.

01:06:15.000 Yeah, I could attest to that.

01:06:17.000 Curiosity is my number one attribute.

01:06:20.000 That's the thing that's led me in life and everything I've ever done is just being open minded and curious.

01:06:26.000 I'm very fortunate that I didn't think I had things figured out when I was 20 at all. 0.99

01:06:31.000 I was sure that I was a moron. 0.99

01:06:35.000 I was good at one thing kicking people. 1.00

01:06:37.000 That's it.

01:06:38.000 And then from then, I realized that there's a lot to learn and that as much as I learned about martial arts, I could apply that sort of open minded discipline.

01:06:51.000 Because you have to be.

01:06:54.000 Open minded to be good at martial arts because you have to be able to listen.

01:06:58.000 You can't think you already know.

01:07:00.000 You cannot.

01:07:01.000 You won't grow and you won't get better.

01:07:03.000 You have to be listening to coaches.

01:07:06.000 You have to be listening to instructors.

01:07:07.000 You have to be listening to your teammates.

01:07:09.000 You have to listen to everybody.

01:07:11.000 If you don't listen, if you don't tell me, those people don't go anywhere.

01:07:16.000 And I learned that very early on.

01:07:18.000 It's very fortunate that I found that path because I've applied that to virtually everything that I've ever done in life.

01:07:24.000 Instead of Having this belief that I have things figured out.

01:07:27.000 I mean, I've certainly been more sure than I should have been at many times in my life, but always willing to stop and go, maybe I'm wrong.

01:07:38.000 And if it wasn't for this podcast, it would have never gotten to where it is because I've fortunately been able to talk to brilliant people.

01:07:49.000 And, you know, I grew up in, I lived in, California for 26 years.

01:07:57.000 Before that, I lived in Boston and New York.

01:08:00.000 I thought of people, the Southern accent in particular, right?

01:08:05.000 Then this is a standard thing that a lot of people on the coasts have. 0.99

01:08:10.000 You hear people talk with a Southern accent, you think they're dumb. 0.99

01:08:15.000 It's a terrible stereotype that actually came out because of hookworm parasites. 0.99

01:08:21.000 I'm sure you're aware of that story.

01:08:23.000 I'm not.

01:08:23.000 You're not.

01:08:24.000 Educate me. 0.99

01:08:26.000 The stereotype of the lazy, dull minded Southerner came out of the fact that a large percentage of people in the South had contracted hookworms from walking around barefoot, and hookworm parasites will rob you of your intellectual capacity. 0.81

01:08:46.000 They greatly diminish your ability to think and exhaust you. 0.99

01:08:53.000 You get slower and, in quotes, lazier, but you're really just infected with a parasite.

01:08:59.000 And it's an enormous percentage of the population in the 1900s where we're infected with hookworm, and in the South in particular, hot climates.

01:09:10.000 And this is where this stereotype came from.

01:09:14.000 When someone like you speaks with such insane recall, like your recall is bananas, like your recall of dates and names and times.

01:09:22.000 I have a pretty good recall, it's nothing like yours.

01:09:25.000 It's extraordinary.

01:09:26.000 And I love when I meet someone who's brilliant who still has a Southern accent.

01:09:31.000 Because it's like, like I said, yeah, forget all the stereotypes.

01:09:36.000 Let them all go, baby, because they're not real.

01:09:38.000 It's not real.

01:09:39.000 None of that is real.

01:09:40.000 Individuals vary wildly. 1.00

01:09:43.000 And, you know, I've met brilliant people from coastal cities, and I've met fucking morons that talk like, you know, a person that you would assume would be a highly educated, intelligent person, but they're closed minded and foolish in their ways. 0.99

01:10:00.000 And having had this ability to have all these different conversations with different people, it's just like every time I have another conversation just expands my understanding just a little more and a little more and a little more. 0.99

01:10:13.000 And I love it.

01:10:14.000 And it's all out of curiosity.

01:10:15.000 And I'm very happy that I've been able to make that curiosity infectious.

01:10:21.000 My favorite cities, and I know we're getting off the beaten path here a little bit.

01:10:24.000 I love to get off the beaten path.

01:10:26.000 It's my favorite thing to do.

01:10:28.000 My favorite cities in America are those that you can go to and not feel like you're in the country.

01:10:34.000 Miami is fabulous.

01:10:37.000 It's a wild place.

01:10:38.000 You should have a passport to go to Miami.

01:10:40.000 It is fabulous.

01:10:42.000 And I remember the first time I went to New York City one time when I was about five years old.

01:10:47.000 The only thing I could remember was the Empire State Building and some dude with purple hair sticking his tongue out at me.

01:10:53.000 The next time was in 2019.

01:10:56.000 And I'd always had kind of that stereotypical Southerner's attitude a bunch of haughty, rude, mean, active.

01:11:05.000 Yep. 0.96

01:11:05.000 Yankee people living in an obnoxious locale that would just be hell on earth to have to endure. 0.96

01:11:12.000 So I had the opportunity to go and spend a day there and rolled into Grand Central Station on the railway from, I think it was New Haven, Connecticut.

01:11:22.000 And just to watch the dimensions of the architecture as we rolled into the city.

01:11:28.000 The expansion of scale of this place.

01:11:28.000 Crazy.

01:11:31.000 How old be it?

01:11:32.000 Well, let's see.

01:11:33.000 I was about to turn 44.

01:11:36.000 I think I could hear the Beverly Hillbillies music playing in my head when I was going down through there.

01:11:41.000 So we get off of Grand Central Station, and I mean, I walked all through that.

01:11:48.000 I walked from Grand Central Station all the way down to the tip of where the World Trade Center was.

01:11:55.000 It was.

01:11:57.000 New York City is a monumental human accomplishment.

01:12:02.000 When you can have the entire world within 300 square miles, and it is.

01:12:08.000 A living affirmation of everything the United States is supposed to be as the last best hope of humankind on earth, just to be in that place.

01:12:18.000 Anytime I've gone back since, I mean, the minute that I go to get the Uber at LaGuardia Airport and I see that skyline, I mean, my heart just starts racing, racing, racing.

01:12:29.000 I would have never thought that I would just fall in love with New York City, but it is fabulous.

01:12:33.000 San Francisco is the same way.

01:12:36.000 Just there are so many wonderful places in the United States where.

01:12:40.000 You wouldn't think that somebody necessarily who sounded like me would endorse.

01:12:45.000 But one of the best things that I have done is stop watching television news.

01:12:52.000 The last time I watched television news was after the first Obama press conference in January of 2009, and I cut it off.

01:13:00.000 Wow.

01:13:01.000 Aside from presidential debates and election returns, I've never turned it back on.

01:13:08.000 The number of times I've left my front door wide open, the garage door open in my neighborhood, and nothing has happened.

01:13:16.000 Is remarkable.

01:13:17.000 This country, in terms of her people, is as much like it was back in nineteen fifty as it has ever been. 0.96

01:13:28.000 The complexion is a little different.

01:13:31.000 We've got a lot more diversity now than we've ever had.

01:13:35.000 But once you take that blinder of mass media mayhem and all this fabricated division that is purposely put out there to keep us divided.

01:13:43.000 To keep us tuning in.

01:13:45.000 Tuning in and segregated. 0.54

01:13:49.000 Once you take yourself out of it and you just start having a conversation, next time someone gets into an Uber with someone who doesn't have English as a sacred language, strike up a conversation.

01:14:00.000 Ask them, how did you come to the United States?

01:14:03.000 What brought you here?

01:14:04.000 And your heart is going to fill with just the unbelievable amount of pride and love to hear those accents from the Middle East and from Africa speak about this country in ways that take us right back to 1776.

01:14:23.000 It's a fabulous place, and I'm able to say so much of this because of what the plans have helped clarify by way of that universal human divinity that we all share.

01:14:36.000 that this country is the cradle to protect and to honor, which is what makes this mission so incredibly important.

01:14:43.000 And I do want to, oh, I'm sorry.

01:14:45.000 No, go ahead, please.

01:14:46.000 There's two people that I left off of our ambassador program that I think are really showstoppers I want to mention.

01:14:52.000 One is a gentleman by the name of Rear Admiral Jim Hancock.

01:14:57.000 This gentleman received IBGAN treatment for his wounds of war.

01:15:01.000 He was the Navy Medical Corps Chief and was the medical officer for the United States Marine Corps.

01:15:09.000 One of our other ambassadors is a gentleman by the name of General Glenn Curtis.

01:15:13.000 He served in both Gulf Wars.

01:15:15.000 He served in Afghanistan.

01:15:17.000 His most recent stint of service was as the commanding general for the Louisiana National Guard.

01:15:22.000 And he is one of our prime spokespeople for legislation that's pending in Louisiana right now to join Texas as a partner in this Abigail trial.

01:15:30.000 That's fantastic.

01:15:32.000 Please say what you were going to because I'm curious.

01:15:34.000 I don't even remember.

01:15:35.000 Hey, well, I remember what I wanted to talk about.

01:15:37.000 Please.

01:15:38.000 And I want to get us back on the track.

01:15:42.000 That we were talking about.

01:15:46.000 You know, Brian's done a great job to discuss the spiritual aspect of the medicine and what I mean.

01:15:53.000 That's incredibly important.

01:15:55.000 Don't get me wrong on that at all.

01:15:57.000 And, um, But what brought me personally to the medicine, obviously my relationship with Marcus and Morgan and what have you, and then as I've studied it, I'm like, if you're really going to be a legitimate spokesperson for this, if you're going to put your reputation out there, you need to be treated.

01:16:23.000 You need to go through the treatment.

01:16:26.000 And I'm going to get to you at the end of this conversation, but I want to set this up, if I may.

01:16:33.000 And in 2023, if my memory serves me correct, this is the same time that Nolan Williams was heading up the 30 veteran study that Stanford was going to oversee, kind of the early days, if you will, of some clinical trial type effort to have the data, to have the background, some early day efforts to start educating the public about that is how I do this.

01:17:02.000 They had 30 vets.

01:17:04.000 I think they were between the ages of like 22 and 42.

01:17:09.000 They all had moderate to severe PTSD.

01:17:15.000 They were some of them addicted to alcohol.

01:17:23.000 They were pretty classic veteran population that had some real challenges. 1.00

01:17:31.000 They were sent to Stanford and they did baseline functional MRIs.

01:17:39.000 And then they were sent down to Ambio, just south of Tijuana, where they were given the treatment.

01:17:49.000 And then that last, I think, about a four day treatment protocol.

01:17:55.000 You go down, you work your way in.

01:18:00.000 Tuesday, you get in preparation.

01:18:03.000 Tuesday evening, you get the compound.

01:18:06.000 Wednesday is a recovery day.

01:18:08.000 Thursday, there's a 5 MEO DMT treatment.

01:18:11.000 And then you go home.

01:18:15.000 They went back to Stanford after five days after the treatment and had follow up MRIs.

01:18:24.000 I think they did an MRI at 30 days and then a functional MRI at six months.

01:18:31.000 So there was a good piece of data there to look at.

01:18:37.000 Just stunningly good results.

01:18:41.000 And the results, I think there was 87% of them who.

01:18:48.000 Six months now, better than two years later, but that have zero PTSD.

01:18:54.000 The addictions were at that level of reduction that we talked about in the high 80 percentiles.

01:19:00.000 I mean, just I mean, we've seen all of this data before.

01:19:04.000 This is nothing new.

01:19:05.000 But the reason I share that with you is that I basically went down and followed the same protocol.

01:19:15.000 I wasn't part of the clinical trial, but And I only wanted to be treated with Ibogaine.

01:19:20.000 I did not want to take the 5 MEO DMT.

01:19:22.000 So, what I was looking at, and I was interested in this from the brain regenerative side of it.

01:19:28.000 I had about as bucolic a life as you've ever had.

01:19:31.000 I never had anybody mistreat me of anything that you could even get close to calling traumatic effect.

01:19:38.000 I had no trauma in my life.

01:19:40.000 I grew up on a dryland cotton farm, you know, 60 miles from Abilene, Texas, 16 miles from the closest place that had a post office in a part of Texas that.

01:19:50.000 It was just a lovely, wonderful, loving place.

01:19:53.000 My mom and dad loved me and I knew it.

01:19:55.000 And, you know, my scoutmaster and my principal and my superintendent and my Sunday school class, who, by the way, were all the same person, and he drove the bus and was a football coach.

01:20:07.000 I had a as non traumatic growing up period as you could imagine.

01:20:15.000 So I was concussed.

01:20:22.000 Severely concussed three times.

01:20:25.000 Twice in athletic events, and I'm talking about knocked out completely for over one minute.

01:20:32.000 And those are severe concussions.

01:20:36.000 Two times in athletic events, one time unloading horses.

01:20:38.000 Knocked completely out.

01:20:40.000 So what I know now is that as I got to pilot training and I started noticing that I was having trouble sleeping and that this.

01:20:53.000 Thing that I understood later in life was anxiety had crept into my life.

01:20:59.000 So I had, I'm going to put it in the mild category anxiety and insomnia.

01:21:11.000 I went into a very odd line of work in politics to have those two kind of things.

01:21:17.000 And I masked them rather well.

01:21:20.000 Most people didn't know I had that.

01:21:21.000 My wife did.

01:21:22.000 But other than that, even my senior staff and my My offices through the year, agriculture commissioner, lieutenant governor, governor, they did not know that I had this challenge of, you know, maybe sleeping three and a half, four hours a night, being anxious at times to the point of being never dysfunctional. 0.92

01:21:49.000 But from my perspective, probably some people out there in the political world said, Hell, Perry, you were dysfunctional the whole damn time.

01:21:54.000 What are you talking about? 0.97

01:21:55.000 Anyway, beside the point, I had the treatment.

01:22:05.000 I had the brain scan going in.

01:22:07.000 I had the brain scan a week later, and I had the brain scan at six months.

01:22:14.000 The first brain scan, they said, Look, your brain looks pretty good for a 73 year old guy.

01:22:23.000 He said, You know, you're actually in pretty good shape.

01:22:26.000 You don't have a lot of atrophy.

01:22:27.000 You got some mild atrophy, but your brain looks pretty good.

01:22:35.000 The week after scan showed a 27% increase in the prefrontal cortex of my brain.

01:22:46.000 That's where you're.

01:22:48.000 Focus, your concentration, your emotions reside.

01:22:51.000 Had a 27% increase in that prefrontal cortex activity.

01:22:59.000 My six month scan.

01:23:05.000 I have a dear friend who's a neurosurgeon from Tyler, Dr. Charlie Gordon, who is a 40 plus year neurosurgeon.

01:23:19.000 Spine expert, looked at lots of brain scans.

01:23:24.000 A respectful skeptic of this.

01:23:27.000 When I told him I was going to be treated with this compound called Ibogaine, this psychoactive compound, he was recoiled a little bit.

01:23:38.000 He was like, You need to be really careful with that.

01:23:45.000 He has now gone from being a respectful skeptic.

01:23:50.000 To looking at the data from the clinical trial that was done at Stanford, talking to a fairly good number of the veterans that went through that trial, talking to Dr. Williams, talking to other specialists at Stanford.

01:24:05.000 And he has gone from a respectful skeptic to a full on believer in this medicine.

01:24:14.000 I mean, an absolute supporter that this medicine does what it says it does, it heals people.

01:24:23.000 Of addictions.

01:24:25.000 It heals from PTSD.

01:24:27.000 This medicine does what it does.

01:24:29.000 And we're driving back from the airport that day after the six month scan.

01:24:35.000 He had looked at it as it came off of the machine.

01:24:39.000 And he said, Governor, I'm not going to blow smoke up your dress.

01:24:47.000 Your atrophy is gone.

01:24:50.000 He said, I have no idea why this has happened, but he said, the difference between your initial baseline scan and six months later, clearly, the atrophy in your brain is gone.

01:25:08.000 He said, Your brain looks like a 40 year old.

01:25:10.000 Now, The reason I share that story with you is because, number one, that's partly what drives me about this, is that there is a regenerative aspect of this medicine that we don't really understand yet.

01:25:27.000 And if it does what we think it's going to do, and that's the reason these clinical trials are just so stunningly important, that's the reason what the Center for Brain Health and what they're going to be doing and the data they're going to be collecting, I'm convinced of what this data is going to show.

01:25:44.000 But for all of those individuals out there who don't have substance abuse problems, who weren't traumatized as a child, but who have been concussed, and we know that that damage is out there, and that the cumulative side Robert Gallery, that great professional football player who had really bad CTE, and he will tell you today this medicine saved his life.

01:26:13.000 My question for you, Joe Rogan, is.

01:26:19.000 How many times do you think you've been concussed in life?

01:26:27.000 I don't know.

01:26:29.000 I have no idea.

01:26:31.000 Dozens.

01:26:32.000 Yeah, I'd have to go back and think about times.

01:26:38.000 Most of it was from sparring or a few from fights.

01:26:44.000 But if we think about that, if there is this cumulative effect, how old are you now?

01:26:52.000 58.

01:26:55.000 Would Joe Rogan be willing to say, you know what?

01:26:59.000 I've seen enough.

01:27:01.000 I believe that this medicine does what you say it will do.

01:27:06.000 And for a person like me, that it could be incredibly helpful to my long term plan of living a long and healthy and engaged life that Joe Rogan would go and be treated with Ibogaine.

01:27:27.000 Yeah, I would definitely do it.

01:27:29.000 I'm very fascinated by it.

01:27:31.000 I mean, I've never heard anybody say, I wish I didn't do it.

01:27:35.000 He mentioned his brain scans post-treatment.

01:27:39.000 A couple of weeks ago, while I was at that One Earth gathering, I met a lady whom I will call Lonnie, and she had just returned from an Aberdeen treatment in November of 25.

01:27:53.000 She related an early life of just ungodly physical abuse by her father, who was addicted to OxyContin.

01:28:01.000 You know, we began this conversation about the realities of the opioid epidemic in America.

01:28:07.000 While death is the most terminal outcome as measured down about 700,000 Americans, there is a much broader web of hardcore travesty that exists around each of those death outcomes.

01:28:21.000 And Lonnie experienced that.

01:28:24.000 She had multiple concussions from her own father.

01:28:27.000 Like many individuals who experience trauma of this nature, she developed her own drug addiction.

01:28:33.000 She was in and out of jail. 0.65

01:28:34.000 She was homeless at a different point in time.

01:28:37.000 She managed to get recovered.

01:28:39.000 She had a separate traumatic brain injury that was fairly severe in 2018.

01:28:43.000 And then she was diagnosed with what I believe is called young onset Parkinson's, Parkinson's diagnosis that is pre-age 50.

01:28:54.000 Her Parkinson's had progressed to the point to where she could not write because of the tremulousness in her hands.

01:29:02.000 So when I saw her two weeks ago and she introduced herself, she had all of the appearance and affect of a perfectly healthy human being.

01:29:12.000 It was only after we sat down and she explained what her experience had been and where she was at now that the Abigail disclosure was made.

01:29:21.000 Her hand was just as calm as mine, and she said that it had been essentially three months and that she had been able to resume a normal life and that her mind felt restored.

01:29:33.000 Now, based on the responses we got after our first interview with you, I want to be very careful here.

01:29:39.000 This is truly the edge of science.

01:29:42.000 And there is much unknown about the variety of Parkinson's that this can treat.

01:29:48.000 There's some suggestion that it is better for those who have a genetic predisposition for the disease than it is for those who contract Parkinson's as the result of environmental exposure.

01:30:00.000 Ibogaine does not appear to have any impact on Parkinson's developed as a result of exposure to environmental toxin.

01:30:09.000 The stage of the disease at which you catch it also appears to make a big difference.

01:30:13.000 The earlier, the better.

01:30:15.000 It has also been asserted that ibogaine does not cure Parkinson's.

01:30:19.000 What it does is slows disease progression and creates for some a broad window of opportunity for the restoration of function that can dramatically improve the quality of life.

01:30:31.000 Now, I'm just given a number of qualifiers about its impact and efficacy on one individual, but think about what we just said here.

01:30:40.000 This is a woman who was diagnosed with young onset Parkinson's.

01:30:43.000 She had lost the ability to write because of the tremulousness in her hands.

01:30:47.000 She's four months out from a treatment and she's been able to resume her full normal life with a complete restoration of function.

01:30:54.000 If we could get a COVID vaccine out in nine months, there is no reason why, with the focused effort of Texas and the other states we'll discuss here momentarily, that we cannot achieve the moonshot of our time within three years or less.

01:31:13.000 And that is the completion of an Ibogaine medication that can be fully integrated into the U.S. healthcare system.

01:31:21.000 care system and made just as universally available as every ineffective opioid-based treatment that we currently deploy through the medical system at a cost of $700,000 per patient.

01:31:34.000 Sponsored by Indivior, which is one of the chief pharmaceutical developers of everything that we have that fails 75% of the time.

01:31:46.000 Yeah, I mean, if we could do it, it would be pretty extraordinary.

01:31:50.000 And if it is done, I really do believe that it would have a complete changing of society.

01:31:57.000 When people have no hope and there's nothing, and then all of a sudden there's something that comes along that you do it once and it's an 85% effective rate, and you do it twice and it's in the high 90s.

01:32:08.000 I mean, to change, I mean, how many people are out there struggling with something, whether it's alcoholism, whether it's obesity, whether it's, you know, that's another thing.

01:32:18.000 Like, there's people that are.

01:32:20.000 Calming themselves with food, right?

01:32:22.000 And it's masking.

01:32:24.000 That's probably a sugar addiction, don't you think?

01:32:26.000 I mean, from the standpoint of.

01:32:28.000 It is, but for a lot of people, there's something else.

01:32:32.000 For some people, it's sexual abuse and they're younger and they eat.

01:32:37.000 Interesting.

01:32:38.000 It's an addiction.

01:32:40.000 And it's not just a physical addiction, it's a psychological addiction.

01:32:44.000 I brought up gambling because I know a lot of people that are addicted to gambling.

01:32:47.000 Yeah, pornography. 0.89

01:32:47.000 Pornography. 0.89

01:32:49.000 There's a lot of things.

01:32:49.000 Beef.

01:32:49.000 Sure.

01:32:51.000 The 20,000 models we mentioned, all ones who had developed those eating disorders, one of which was a compulsive eater as a result of that childhood sexual abuse.

01:32:59.000 And Abigail was the treatment of last resort, not the first option.

01:33:04.000 And their own recovery story, which can be found on the Americans for Abigail website, is truly extraordinary.

01:33:11.000 And speaking of extraordinary, when we came in here to push Texas, our belief was and still is and is now playing out at scale that if Texas did this, it would be joined by a number of other states who are no longer willing to sit and wait on an inefficient, often incompetent,

01:33:35.000 and also incompetently corrupt federal bureaucracy that will not move in response to the genuine needs of the American people at the pace that it needs to.

01:33:46.000 There are a variety of well-intentioned reformers within the current administration, Secretary Kennedy, Secretary Collins, and others. who have voiced their support for the advancement of plant medicine as breakthrough treatments primarily for U.S. war fighters, but also for other members of our society for whom these medications could help.

01:34:09.000 We believe that these individuals are stymied by two realities.

01:34:14.000 The first reality is the Byzantine complexity of the federal bureaucracy, the degree to which it has been compromised by the institutional capture of much of its functioning by companies that make money on keeping problems alive.

01:34:30.000 We think they're probably also stymied by perhaps some other political cross currents within the administration that view psychedelics with skepticism, and that are therefore willing to be indiscriminate in their resistance to the advancement of any of them, when in fact the advancement of this one is of existential critical importance as a breakthrough treatment for millions of Americans who need it now.

01:34:55.000 And so to that end, Americans for Ibogaine, following the Texas success, convened a gathering of 200 people in Aspen, Colorado in November of last year.

01:35:07.000 These individuals were invited, appointed and elected state officials from 22 individual states and aligned citizens of Influence, who would be willing, as the Texans were here, to get behind efforts in state legislatures to create a partnership with Texas that,

01:35:24.000 by end result, will form the unstoppable external force through the states that can crash through the federal wall using not just their resources, but their political influence to execute one unified FDA drug development trial and to force the federal government to be responsive to everything that is required to ensure it is successful.

01:35:45.000 So, as we sit here today, We have been working with elected officials in Alabama, Georgia, Idaho, Maryland, Michigan, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Vermont, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, South Dakota, and California, each of whom have legislators who are willing to introduce and to pursue bills to join their states into Texas as this trial.

01:36:12.000 Governor Perry and I spoke to the American Legislative Exchange Council as keynote speakers on December 5th of last year.

01:36:18.000 This is an umbrella think tank organization for center-right, mostly Republican legislatures from across the country.

01:36:26.000 In its entire existence, ALEC has taken two positions when it comes on the war on drugs.

01:36:32.000 More prison, more penalties, more prison, more penalties, ad infinitum.

01:36:39.000 After we spoke about the necessity of Abigail's medical integration into the United States and the capacity of the states to force this reality into being, Alec issued a formal position statement as well as model legislation endorsing what we call the American Abigail Initiative to bring the states all together to make this happen with one unified voice.

01:37:02.000 And so now, as we sit here with you today, in the state of Tennessee, there are two bills, one each, in the state House and the state Senate, that are making its way through that legislature to join Texas.

01:37:15.000 Before we walked in here this morning, the Tennessee Senate Finance Committee voted 11 to nothing to move Tennessee's bill forward to the full state Senate for consideration and what will, I believe, be passage.

01:37:27.000 And I would like to give a shout out to a special sister by the name of Ricky Harris, who has led that Tennessee campaign.

01:37:33.000 Right now, there are two bills in the Missouri legislature, House Bill 2817 and Senate Bill 1581, which are receiving good, considerate, deliberative thought by legislators there.

01:37:46.000 frankly, need a little motivation.

01:37:48.000 So if you're in Missouri and you want to see Abigail medicine for your family member, for your community, for your state, you call into the Missouri legislature and say, Move the Abigail bill forward to join Missouri with Texas.

01:38:00.000 Oklahoma.

01:38:01.000 The Oklahoma House of Representatives has passed its Abigail bill.

01:38:05.000 It is now pendent in its Senate.

01:38:07.000 In Louisiana, Senate Bill 43 has been introduced to join that state to Texas, and in what I can only describe as full circle justice, The Kentucky Senate passed Senate Bill 77 by a margin of 35 to 2 to join Kentucky where this all began with Texas as a state partner in this Abigail drug development trial.

01:38:30.000 It is now sitting in the Kentucky House of Representatives.

01:38:33.000 So you, if you are at home, please call the Kentucky House of Representatives and ask them to pass the Kentucky-Abigail Initiative so the state will not be left out.

01:38:44.000 Now, here are some just unbelievable words that are going to come out of my mouth.

01:38:52.000 The state of West Virginia, their House of Delegates by a vote of 96 to nothing, and their state Senate unanimously passed their Ibogaine bill to join Texas, and it has now been sent to their governor for signature.

01:39:06.000 And the one that is the most poignant and moving for all the obvious reasons, the state of Mississippi, the crucible for the triumph of uniquely American hope over horror.

01:39:23.000 and of the leadership of Representative Sam Creekmore.

01:39:26.000 Its state House of Representatives passed by a margin of 111 to 1, and its state Senate passed by a margin of 51 to 1.

01:39:36.000 The Mississippi I Began Initiative, which will tie the state of Mississippi with a $5 million appropriation from its opioid fund to Texas to develop the most powerful psychedelic on the planet as a breakthrough treatment for trauma and addiction for the people of Mississippi.

01:39:53.000 That's incredible.

01:39:54.000 It is going to be signed, actually has been legally signed by Governor Reeves, Governor Tate Reeves.

01:40:02.000 And Governor Perry and I have asked for a special sign-in ceremony with Representative Creekmore, his legislative leaders there, to stand in Jackson, Mississippi and see that signed into law as a matter of ceremonial formality.

01:40:16.000 What a wonderfully redemptive opportunity that we have here to shepherd.

01:40:21.000 And we hope and pray that our organization can be sufficiently resourced and sufficiently engaged over the next three years so that we can see this process to conclusion.

01:40:31.000 I'll mention a couple of others since we're talking about the capacity to make this a broad-based humanitarian mission that improves the human condition.

01:40:41.000 Just Friday, before traveling down here on Sunday, I received a letter from the government of Gabon naming Americans for Abigail as its official partner for the advancement.

01:40:51.000 Of Iboga medicine globally.

01:40:53.000 Gabon has 2.3 million people.

01:40:55.000 It's got 100,000 square miles of territory that's the modern Garden of Eden.

01:41:00.000 I've had the opportunity to take a trip there from, and I mean trip as in the geographic sense, not the psychic, not the Iboga trip, though I hope that that will be on the agenda in the ceremonial way sometime within the next year.

01:41:15.000 We traveled there from January 6th to January 20th, and if someone would have said, when you go to Gabon, You're going to have one of the most down home experiences you've ever had in my life.

01:41:26.000 It would have blown my mind.

01:41:27.000 But it was a fabulous journey, one in which they were jubilant about our ability to demonstrate that what they call the sacred wood, in fact, is one of the most scientifically advanced substances that has perhaps ever been discovered.

01:41:43.000 And we're honored that the government would choose us as their partner to move this forward.

01:41:48.000 On Monday, after a conference call with Chief Gary Batten, I can confirm That the Choctaw Nation will seek to join Texas in the expansion of this Albigene drug development trial onto their sovereign territory as the third largest Native American tribe in the country.

01:42:11.000 On april the seventh, I will be travelling to Durant, Oklahoma for what is being called the Inter Tribal Council Meeting of what they describe as the Five Civilized Tribes.

01:42:21.000 That's their name, not mine.

01:42:23.000 This is a gathering of the leadership of the Choctaw, the Chickasaw, the Cherokee, the Muskegee, and the Seminole.

01:42:33.000 We expect a passage of a resolution that I will be there to lobby for, where the five civilized tribes will declare their solidarity with Americans for Ibogaine for the integration of this divine emancipator into the U.S. health care system as expeditiously as possible and make all of their resources available to explore the extent to which we can operationalize Ibogaine medicine as quickly as possible.

01:42:59.000 And it's my hope and aspiration that we will see all of Native America join this effort before the end of this year.

01:43:07.000 Would that?

01:43:07.000 Can I stop you there?

01:43:08.000 Make it so that they would be able to immediately establish retreats there?

01:43:13.000 So, similar to the way they have casinos?

01:43:16.000 Because they don't have the same sort of regulations that some states do.

01:43:21.000 Tribal sovereignty is an area of the law with which I am not familiar.

01:43:25.000 I would not be able to speak to the degree to which they could autonomously open a clinic.

01:43:31.000 The most immediate issue would be related to the creation of a supply chain because you have travel through interstate commerce in the U.S. states, which you theoretically restrict it.

01:43:41.000 However, there is one spectacular opportunity not just to expedite the creation of Ibogaine treatment access for Native America, but for all of America.

01:43:52.000 And this gets into federal right to try legislation, authored by former U.S. Senator Kirsten Sinema and signed by the president during his first administration in 2018.

01:44:06.000 What federal right to try legislation or the law provides is that once any medication makes its way, Through Phase I safety testing within the FDA's process, then anyone with a life threatening condition for which that medication is being developed can request treatment with that medication and obtain it from a willing prescriber.

01:44:33.000 What does that mean?

01:44:35.000 That means that as soon as Texas, or as soon as one of the native tribes effectively completes a Phase I safety study under the language of the law, Anyone who has a life-threatening condition for which this medication is being developed, first and foremost, opioid dependency, can go and request and get the treatment.

01:45:00.000 We have one complication.

01:45:03.000 Presently, the Drug Enforcement Administration, in keeping with the practice of many government agencies that use their arbitrary authority to interpret law, has asserted that federal right to try does not apply to Schedule I substances.

01:45:21.000 This means that, based on not the language of the law, but on DEA's interpretation preference of that law, once IBAN clears through phase one, it would be disqualified for access under federal right to trial because the DEA says that if Schedule I substances were intended to be included, they would have been specifically listed in the legislation.

01:45:48.000 When Kirsten Sinema, the author of the bill, explained to them that the language is unambiguous and it says, any medication, their response was insolence and a refusal to honor what the statute actually says.

01:46:04.000 which is one of these numerous examples of the use of fictitious legal realities to do violence to legitimate reality.

01:46:12.000 The DEA needs to be told to relent on its misinterpretation and extrajudicial interpretation of federal right to try, to interpret it as written, so that once any phase one study on Ibogaine is completed, delivery can be effectuated through the medical system immediately.

01:46:32.000 And I might add one of the challenges that that I have seen over my 40 years of being involved in government is that bureaucrats, the easiest and the safest answer for a bureaucrat is no.

01:46:48.000 And I think that is part of what we are running into in D.C. with the DEA.

01:46:54.000 One of the issues that I certainly hope and pray, and as we go through the summer and as we see what is happening in Texas and Mississippi and these other states, that we will have the opportunity to sit down.

01:47:08.000 With President Trump and to just share with him what we're doing, what we're seeing across the country, and that we could potentially have a conversation about the rescheduling of Ibogaine from 1 to 3.

01:47:24.000 2 or 3.

01:47:26.000 You know, just get it out of that Schedule 1, which there's no reason in the world, and you've talked about this many times, Joe, that Ibogaine is on Schedule 1.

01:47:36.000 It does have medical purposes.

01:47:38.000 I mean, it's very clear it does.

01:47:40.000 And secondly, it is not addictive.

01:47:42.000 So the idea on its face that Ibogaine is shown as this Schedule I compound is just a fallacy.

01:47:52.000 Well, the Schedule I, the sweeping Schedule I Act of 1970 is just nuts.

01:47:56.000 They just threw a bunch of stuff in there, many of the things that aren't even psychoactive.

01:48:01.000 A question the aboga tree, can it be grown in the United States?

01:48:08.000 Theoretically, it could be is it climate dependent?

01:48:12.000 It's climate dependent.

01:48:13.000 It's soil dependent.

01:48:15.000 It is considered an entourage plant whereby it absorbs essentially the essence, not just of the soil around it, but of the other botanicals.

01:48:29.000 One of the things we learned in Gabon is that much like we have great varietals in California for all the different kinds of wine that they produce, there are different varieties of the Eboga shrub.

01:48:40.000 How it grows in the north of the country is very different than how it grows in the south.

01:48:44.000 In terms of the amount of compound that's in it or the type of compound that's in it?

01:48:49.000 The potency, the strength, the nature of its effect on the person, the way that it kind of facilitates the spiritual journey.

01:49:01.000 There's some of it that will kind of have a dark angle, there's some of it that has more of a light angle.

01:49:07.000 We are just really scratching the surface of knowledge as to all the the ways in which it can vary based on how it grows naturally.

01:49:17.000 One of the most fascinating things that we learned there, and this is going to give you chills, we visited a five-hectare, they use the metric system, we visited a five-hectare Iboga plantation right in the center of Leverville that is run by one of their former prime ministers.

01:49:35.000 It's an experimental farm to kind of understand how it grows, the optimal ways in which to grow it, and What different outcomes are.

01:49:45.000 So, as we were walking along, we came to these two small bushes.

01:49:49.000 It takes for about 10 years to come to maturation.

01:49:54.000 Come along this pathway, and they were two shrubs identical growing just a couple of feet apart from each other.

01:50:00.000 And they pointed those out and said, Can you now what does that look like to you?

01:50:03.000 And I said, Well, those are eboga shrubs.

01:50:05.000 And they smiled and they said, Well, it would appear so because they are identical.

01:50:12.000 They said, But in nature, when you find an eboga shrub, you're going to have to be very careful to determine which one's which because in nature, it looks like they grow in pairs.

01:50:23.000 One is the real deal, the other is.

01:50:27.000 is it's poison imposter.

01:50:29.000 Oh.

01:50:30.000 And they grow together.

01:50:32.000 And they look identical?

01:50:33.000 They look identical.

01:50:34.000 How do you differentiate?

01:50:36.000 It's not until they get fully grown into their tenth year.

01:50:40.000 One bears fruit, which is the real deal, and the other does not.

01:50:44.000 Wow.

01:50:46.000 Now, how does that do you for the physical communication of a mystical spiritual reality?

01:50:53.000 So it takes 10 years for it to come to fruition to the point where it could be useful?

01:50:57.000 No.

01:50:58.000 So you could use it before then, but you don't know whether you're getting the real deal or you're just killing yourself.

01:51:04.000 When you see them grow in pairs, that's correct.

01:51:07.000 So there's one group of people who know how to differentiate.

01:51:11.000 One of the things that we learned is that there is a healthy underground international market for the bark.

01:51:17.000 Just like we use vitamin B complex or we use valerian root to help us go to sleep, people in Gabon will use the Eboga bark for, mental acuity and just like drinking a cup of coffee.

01:51:30.000 I mean, to get the psychoactive effect, you have to eat like five big, huge, heaping plates of this stuff over the course of time.

01:51:39.000 It's so bitter it will burn your mouth.

01:51:41.000 I mean, it's an Olympian ordeal.

01:51:42.000 It's a bark.

01:51:43.000 Yes, sir.

01:51:44.000 It's an Olympian ordeal to consume the amount of bark that's necessary to get that mystical effect, and you're sicker than a dog the whole time you're doing it.

01:51:53.000 But apparently piracy in the country for the shrub is fairly prominent.

01:51:58.000 And they explained that what poachers will do is that they will take the poison imposter and basically like the street supply where you put pollutants in with cocaine or whatever here.

01:52:09.000 They put that imposter bark in with the real because you cannot visually differentiate.

01:52:15.000 The Ambongo pygmy who we had the privilege of meeting, who hosted us for an overnight ceremony of blessing and protection that was just phenomenal, they apparently can just taste the bark even when it's mixed together and they can tell if it's adulterated with the imposter. 0.79

01:52:32.000 Wow.

01:52:34.000 But to know that.

01:52:35.000 Those are like sommeliers of Ibogaine.

01:52:37.000 Yes.

01:52:39.000 That's a great way to put it.

01:52:41.000 An Ibogaine sommelier.

01:52:43.000 Might have to go over and get tutored.

01:52:45.000 Yeah, I wonder what that process is like.

01:52:48.000 Boy.

01:52:50.000 Well, it seems to me that with the incredible effectiveness of this compound and it being adopted by all these states, it almost seems inevitable that change is coming.

01:53:03.000 Well, here's what we need.

01:53:05.000 to make change happen.

01:53:07.000 We need the DEA to get on board.

01:53:09.000 Well, we need the DEA to get on board, but we need one man to get on board, and that man is the President of the United States.

01:53:17.000 We're here to recognize America in her 250th year.

01:53:22.000 25 of those 250, now 10% of time, has been spent at war.

01:53:29.000 And there are conditions unique to war that only this medication can responsibly address in a way that nothing else can.

01:53:39.000 If there is an opportunity to improve the human condition at scale, particularly for those who are even right now being marched in to go and fight yet another war, taking executive action that would direct IBGA to be moved to Schedule II, that the provisions of the Halt Fentanyl Act be applied, to the Texas Multistate Abigail Drug Development Trial,

01:54:07.000 that the DEA be directed to interpret federal right to try so as to not exclude Schedule I medications that are in drug development, and that it be appropriately interpreted so that any medication that makes it through Phase I can be accessed by a person with a life-threatening condition,

01:54:24.000 and then directing that federal scientific research agencies, whether they be within Health and Human Services or the Pentagon, come alongside the states in direct partnership to fund and foster the accelerated pharmacological development of Ibogaine so that this medication can make its way all the way through the FDA's process with their supportive guidance within three years or less.

01:54:50.000 It is the moonshot of our time.

01:54:52.000 And if there's a humanitarian legacy to be left for the ages by a president who very much wishes to have a legacy that is well reflected upon by posterity, this is one of the most monumental opportunities he has.

01:55:09.000 To help folks at scale in a way that no president perhaps has before.

01:55:14.000 We're at an inflection point in history, not just for this country, but globally.

01:55:19.000 Well, I certainly hope that this message reaches the president, and I will try to make sure that it does.

01:55:25.000 Thank you, sir.

01:55:27.000 I mean, I think in terms of the amount of people that it can help and the crisis that our country is enduring with opiate addiction, with PTSD, with all sorts of trauma, with CTE, from sports, from Car accidents and what have you.

01:55:43.000 I mean, this is, it's astonishing that this is even a struggle.

01:55:49.000 When you consider the effectiveness of this, it's astonishing that we have to plead and that you have to put in so much work.

01:55:56.000 And kudos to you for doing that.

01:55:58.000 And kudos to Dan Patrick for this recent adoption of it here in Texas.

01:56:05.000 And I mean, I just can only hope that momentum is on the side that's correct and that this is implemented through the entire country and that people wake up and realize like we can help people.

01:56:18.000 And everyone at this point in time, because of the opioid crisis, everyone is touched by this.

01:56:23.000 Everyone has a family member.

01:56:25.000 Everyone knows someone, a friend, a neighbor, everyone.

01:56:28.000 Everyone knows someone who's been hit by this.

01:56:31.000 I have friends that have no problems with anything else and they had an injury and got hooked on opiates and had a terrible time kicking it.

01:56:40.000 Opioids are. 0.95

01:56:43.000 I'll use the word demonic.

01:56:45.000 I just, I don't know any other way to describe it.

01:56:46.000 It's a good word.

01:56:47.000 It robbed people of their life.

01:56:50.000 And to have seen, you know, back in Kentucky where this all started, in my opinion, and your work there, and to have the success that we're seeing now in Kentucky and having it blocked historically when you were there at the Opioid Abatement Commission and the current governor being a part of that blockade, if you will.

01:57:16.000 former employee of the Sackler family.

01:57:20.000 And today to have the opportunity for the Kentucky people of Kentucky to finally get the opportunity to make right what they got so tragically impacted by back in the late 90s and the 2000s.

01:57:41.000 I just, I mean, it gives me great hope, not just for this country, but for the side of righteousness.

01:57:50.000 That this happens in a big and a powerful way.

01:57:52.000 Hear, hear.

01:57:54.000 He mentions the Kentucky experience.

01:57:57.000 Before we rolled out the Ivygate Initiative there and stood up the Opioid Commission, I thought our first job was to go and to hear from the people of the state.

01:58:07.000 We were getting a billion dollars in settlement funds.

01:58:10.000 This money was coming to us because thousands of their family members had died.

01:58:14.000 So recognizing that confidence in government is at an all-time low, I thought it was important to go out and say, hey, here's who we are.

01:58:22.000 Here's the job we've been given.

01:58:23.000 Here's the resource we have.

01:58:25.000 Tell us what need you have in your community that we can look to fund.

01:58:30.000 This is something that needs to be accessible to grassroots organizations.

01:58:35.000 It needs to be accountable to you as people.

01:58:37.000 And we need to make sure we're transparent with how we use this money.

01:58:39.000 But our first job is to listen.

01:58:41.000 Well, over the course of 20 town halls across the state, Tuesday evenings from 6 p.m. until we wrapped up, what began as a 15-minute technocratic presentation of what this state commission does turned into these mass catharsis events.

01:59:02.000 where hundreds of people, thousands over the course of those 20 town halls, poured out the depths of their grief right at our feet.

01:59:10.000 And after they did, the sum total of their response to us was, we don't think that you have the competence or the integrity to do anything that's going to make a meaningful difference in this life, in our lives.

01:59:27.000 And we don't expect one cent of this money is going to make the least bit of difference for us.

01:59:32.000 At one of these town halls, I heard about a young woman by the name of Tamara.

01:59:38.000 And the woman who told Tamara's story was a volunteer.

01:59:42.000 at a clinic for the survivors of child sexual abuse.

01:59:46.000 This particular clinic made sure that children received appropriate medical treatment, that they received proper therapeutic counseling, and that they were placed in family circumstances where they could perhaps have a chance to have a decent life.

02:00:02.000 So this volunteer told about meeting a young woman by the name of Tamara when Tamara was 10 years old, had been horrifically sexually abused by a family member.

02:00:10.000 Tamara had to have a series of reconstructive surgeries because of how awful it was. 1.00

02:00:15.000 And she said that she worked with Tamara for about two or three years and that she went to her adopted family and she hadn't been heard from since.

02:00:26.000 And that she assumed that that was despite how awful her circumstances were when she came through the door, that she managed to get well and go on and have a relatively functional and happy life, as happy as one can to be a survivor of those circumstances.

02:00:43.000 This same woman said that about 10 years later, she was volunteering at the Perry County, Kentucky.

02:00:49.000 Detention center in the county seat of Hazard and that she was offering mindfulness and yoga classes to inmates there, just as a volunteer.

02:01:01.000 And she said she went in one evening to teach her class and that she saw this young woman sitting in the corner off to herself, kind of withdrawn.

02:01:09.000 She didn't want to come, participate in any of the yoga exercises or anything and that she was looking at her and she said, you know, even though she was an adult, she looked kind of like what this young woman appeared Tamara, when she was 10 years old.

02:01:22.000 She said so I walked up to her and knelt down beside her and I said, is your name Tamara?

02:01:29.000 And she said that young woman looked up at her and recognized and eyes brightened.

02:01:34.000 She said, yes, how'd you know?

02:01:35.000 She said, i'm the volunteer who worked with you when you came to our clinic when you were 10.

02:01:40.000 what are you doing in here and tamara explained that because of the surgeries that she had performed to be reconstructed they had given her opioids and that what began to treat her physical pain She continued to rely upon to treat her tremendous spiritual and emotional pain.

02:02:04.000 And she had gotten busted by an oxy on the street by a deputy with the Perry County Sheriff's Department and put in jail.

02:02:14.000 Now, you think about what I just said about how this young woman's life got started off.

02:02:19.000 And the response of power to her was a prison.

02:02:24.000 This is why what we're doing is so necessary.

02:02:26.000 And Governor Perry mentions one other reality that's important.

02:02:31.000 Some of your viewers may have seen a Politico article published on Sunday about a presidential aspirant by the name of Andy Bashir, who is the current Kentucky governor.

02:02:49.000 Andy Bashir was the Attorney General of Kentucky before he was governor.

02:02:56.000 He is the son of his father, Steve Bashir, who was governor for eight years between 2007 and 2015.

02:03:06.000 Andy's greatest accomplishment is being his father's son because he has never accomplished anything outside of his father's lap.

02:03:18.000 The legislature in Kentucky has been controlled by Republican supermajorities over the entirety of his term.

02:03:24.000 And everything for which he claims credit actually belongs to them by way of accomplishment.

02:03:31.000 There are a few things for which he can claim credit.

02:03:34.000 One is shutting down the state of Kentucky harder than Gavin Newsom shut down the state of California, which resulted in the educational hobbling of an entire generation of Kentucky children who were already well behind national average standards on both reading and math.

02:03:54.000 You could go to a liquor store or a strip club for months in Kentucky before you could send your child to a public school.

02:04:01.000 Andy Bashir is responsible for that.

02:04:05.000 He shut down the state's entire economy.

02:04:08.000 He had an antiquated unemployment benefit system that he instructed the director of to make sure that his contributors and his family members were placed into the front of the line while regular everyday people at home got a busy signal for months on end and had no financial lifeline.

02:04:28.000 while his family and friends got valet treatment.

02:04:32.000 When this was discovered, he scapegoated the director of the unemployment system for following his own instructions a guy by the name of Muncie McNamara, and Mr. McNamara took his own life.

02:04:46.000 But the most egregious reality about Andy Bashir and his father pertains to the fact that they were both law partners at the law firm that represented Purdue Pharma, against the people of Kentucky in the litigation over Oxycontin while they were law partners there.

02:05:09.000 Andy Beshear and his daddy drew law partner paychecks off Purdue Pharma client bills while they were there.

02:05:18.000 And the people of Kentucky should have received a billion dollars but instead received a measly $24 million payout from Purdue Pharma because Andy and his daddy's law firm malpracticed that case.

02:05:33.000 The public record will establish that as part of the Purdue Pharma settlement, 17 million documents were destroyed, the case was put under seal, and as a condition of the settlement, their law firm was allowed to cure their malpractice of the case, which resulted in a $24 million settlement within days of Andy Bashir becoming the attorney general.

02:05:57.000 That's right, the attorney general.

02:05:59.000 I said, I've been a Republican all my life, and I have.

02:06:03.000 My family's been Republican going back to the Civil War.

02:06:07.000 I don't care if it's Gavin Newsom, Kamala Harris, Pete Buttigieg, that Illinois governor, Governor Pritzker, any national Democrat who needs my time, my effort, whatever I can offer by way of volunteer resources to make sure that Andy Bashir never sniffs the sewer grate of the White House, they've got it.

02:06:34.000 In this Politico article, Andy talks about in much the same way as other performative public piety purveyors, that his life is guided by the Golden Rule and the Good Samaritan.

02:06:49.000 He likes to wear his Sunday school and deacon affiliations on his sleeve as so many other performative public piety figures do.

02:06:58.000 If he were actually going to preach the part of the Bible that he has lived, he would talk more about Judas and the 40 pieces of silver than he would any Golden Rule and the Good Samaritan. 0.76

02:07:10.000 And I just want to make sure that the people of home and the people of America know who this man is as the national media takes up Kentucky media's grotesque narrative about his decency and tries to lie him into the White House.

02:07:26.000 Thank you for letting me say that.

02:07:28.000 It's been a long time coming.

02:07:30.000 I understand.

02:07:32.000 Anything else before we wrap this up?

02:07:34.000 You think we covered it all?

02:07:36.000 I think we hit it good.

02:07:37.000 Thank you, Joe.

02:07:38.000 Thank you.

02:07:39.000 You have been a really big supporter of this effort.

02:07:43.000 Well, I think it's just incredible.

02:07:44.000 I mean, I can't believe it's happening.

02:07:47.000 You know, I'd always kind of given up hope that people would wake up to the powerful potential that a lot of these compounds have to change people's lives.

02:07:57.000 Yeah.

02:07:58.000 Well, I'm sure there were some teachers of mine back in the 1950s that the idea that that little burr headed kid that is, you know, obviously not paying a lot of attention could somehow or another end up being the governor or the governor. 0.98

02:08:17.000 Great state of Texas.

02:08:18.000 And there's probably a long, long list of those, as a matter of fact.

02:08:24.000 And I'm sure there's some people over the course of the last 15 years, as I matriculated up through the political process, that said, you know, the idea that this guy is going to be standing up, putting his reputation on the line for something like psychedelics, that ain't going to happen.

02:08:45.000 But it goes back to your point about be curious, be courageous. and make a difference.

02:08:51.000 And you're doing it, Joe Rogan.

02:08:53.000 Thank you, man.

02:08:54.000 Thank you.

02:08:55.000 Thank you, too, Brian.

02:08:56.000 Thank you.

02:08:57.000 And do you mind if I share one last thing?

02:08:59.000 Sure.

02:09:01.000 And because it is the 250th anniversary of the country, this comes from the heart.

02:09:08.000 You know, the bicentennial children have had the blessing of being the grandchildren of that greatest generation that overcame the Great Depression, defeated Nazism, killed Jim Crow, and crushed totalitarian communism.

02:09:22.000 That greatest generation lived, suffered, bled, and died to leave us the shining city on the hill.

02:09:29.000 Over the past 50 years, the bicentennial children, or those who are known as Generation X, have experienced the mass extinction of family. and community.

02:09:41.000 We are the first generational cohort of mass refugees from obliterated biological families who had to seek and build new families of choice based on the salvation bond of unconditional affection, rejecting only the superficial, socialized separatisms of the skin suits into which we have been born. 0.62

02:10:03.000 Over the past 30 years, we have watched truth, justice, and the American way be overrun by institutional deceit, white-collar criminality, and the thieving tyrant's will, an odious alignment of official depravity which has produced the opioid epidemic, the gravest engineered humanitarian catastrophe to play out within our borders since the end of the 19th century,

02:10:31.000 and an epidemic which has disfigured this country.

02:10:36.000 The two thousand eight financial crisis, which forcibly dispossessed millions of us from the American dream, including fifty two percent of African-american homeowners, and sent us the bill for the cost of our dispossession, a bill that every one under the age of forty continues to pay through their lack of economic mobility. 0.62

02:10:56.000 And finally, and most deplorably, twenty five years of unremittent warfare, which has taken exponentially more service member lives here at home by suicide than have been lost at battlefields abroad.

02:11:08.000 Over the last 10 years, 1.5 million Americans have died from drug overdose, alcohol-related disease, and suicide, a figure that exceeds the total number of war casualties going all the way back to 1776.

02:11:26.000 We've got 102 counties with life expectancies less than that of North Korea.

02:11:32.000 18% of respondents to a recent Pew Research Center poll said that they believe the federal government has the capacity to do the right thing.

02:11:39.000 a figure that hasn't been above 30 percent since 2007.

02:11:44.000 Eighty percent of respondents to an October 2025 Wall Street Journal poll have said that the American dream is dead.

02:11:53.000 Power has answered these unconscionable realities with a maelstrom of bureaucratic absurdity, impudent incompetence, and predatory corruption, all with the blessing of the law which has used its power to bind torture and kill the truth.

02:12:12.000 In the decades prior to July 14, 1789, the French government had ruthlessly imposed its burdens abusively imposed its costs and ravenously consumed the future of its people.

02:12:34.000 The arrogance of the aristocracy ultimately answered to the desperate determination of the peasantry and its guillotine blade.

02:12:45.000 We are here to pursue one of the greatest humanitarian missions ever undertaken to serve and exalt the primacy of the human soul.

02:12:56.000 As we sit here right now, There are millions of Americans who have no sense of greater purpose or of even why they are alive, who mourn to see the sunrise when it comes up in through their windows.

02:13:10.000 And what they need to know is that they are indeed divine.

02:13:15.000 There's only one thing that is known to produce iron, and that's the supernova of a star.

02:13:21.000 The iron in our blood originated in a supernova eons ago.

02:13:27.000 Every human being has stardust running through their blood.

02:13:32.000 And the movement that Governor Perry and I are leading is one that aims to recognize the reality of that human divinity.

02:13:41.000 We are desperate, and we are determined, and we will crawl the last mile to deliver good tidings unto the meek, to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound.

02:14:00.000 Glory, glory, hallelujah.

02:14:02.000 The truth is marching on.

02:14:05.000 And thank you, sir, for letting us proclaim it right here on your platform, the Walter Cronkite of our age.

02:14:10.000 That was a beautiful way to end it.

02:14:12.000 Thank you, gentlemen.

02:14:12.000 Thank you.

02:14:14.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - April 01, 2026

Joe Rogan Experience #2477 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard

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