00:00:28.000It is unreal because it shows you how many people are just absolutely fascinated by the story.
00:00:36.000And what you guys have done in this new film is essentially recreate S4 and using AI, recreate you as a young man and these experiences that you had.
00:01:12.000So everything you see is all handmade.
00:01:16.000And even the de aging of Bob Lazar, we scanned Bob.
00:01:20.000We went over to his house, scanned his face, took a process of de aging him through that, then creating a digital model of Bob in different ages, and then placing him in the environment.
00:01:34.000And then in some instances, at the very end, we perfected or kind of put a bow on it.
00:01:42.000With a little touch of AI, but the whole thing is handmade.
00:01:45.000So the craft, the environment, the papoose lake, the facility, the equipment, and the people were all made.
00:01:53.000And some of the people are actually real actors that we put in there.
00:01:56.000So it's not, there's one of the guys that is Barry in the film, a guy called Luis Martinez that's been working with me for the past 10 years.
00:02:05.000And he laughs at it because he goes, I can't believe I'm Barry.
00:03:10.000I suspect that Dennis Mariani, my supervisor, died.
00:03:13.000I've seen people track him down, you know, all the way to point to speaking to his family, and they said, yeah, he had some classified job out in the desert or something.
00:03:22.000Gravestone and stuff, so you know, at least they were able to track him down.
00:03:27.000But I've never heard of any leads on Barry or Renee or anybody like that.
00:03:31.000What is it like seeing the recreation of it in a film?
00:03:37.000Because I mean, essentially, it was your direction, for lack of a better word, your description of it, you telling them exactly how everything was laid out, and then once they recreated it, what is that feeling like when you watch it?
00:03:56.000Well, the final product is absolutely mind blowing because, as I've said to Luigi, it looks like you guys downloaded that out of my brain.
00:04:07.000I mean, you know, you can describe something a hundred times, and until you actually make a picture, it doesn't become clear.
00:05:07.000I didn't have much to do with the film other than, I guess, a couple times going out there and going, no, that's right, that's the wrong color, move this here, do that.
00:05:17.000But those guys spent over three years working on it.
00:05:20.000And, you know, what they, and they never showed me anything.
00:05:25.000You know, I'd speak to Luigi, you know, a couple times a month and, you know, he'd always say, you, oh my God, you won't believe this.
00:06:25.000It's just like Luigi was at S4 with a camera.
00:06:30.000It's a very unique documentary in that regard.
00:06:33.000And watching it with you, seeing you experience this thing, and then me trying to imagine what it's like for you.
00:06:42.000You're this young scientist who gets brought in on this thing without much explanation, and then all of a sudden you're confronted by this craft.
00:06:51.000And the way it's broken down in the film, and you get to actually see you.
00:06:57.000Viewing this thing and being in the presence of this thing for the first time.
00:07:01.000It's just, I could just only imagine what that must have been like for you.
00:07:07.000And it's so weird to watch you watch it again and see your wheels spin.
00:08:15.000Well, what's really fascinating is for people that don't know your story, you came up with a story, you talked to George Knapp, and was it 89?
00:08:36.000The last, you know, nine, ten years, we've started to get all these reports.
00:08:43.000There was the New York Times story, there was the Go Fast video, and the Fleer video, and all these videos that show a craft that's moving the way you described this sport model moving.
00:11:05.000This is for the first time Gene Huff finally is on film, you know, because when I had the, you know, the test flight information, he was one of the, not one of the, he was the first person I told about that.
00:11:18.000And, you know, we were all able to go out and see it.
00:11:22.000And so everybody knew that I wasn't crazy.
00:12:36.000Of recognizing, because initially you saw the American flag.
00:12:40.000Yeah, when I saw the American flag when I first went in, the first time I went in through the hangar door instead of around the back, you know, slid my hand across it, saw the American flag, and I thought, oh my God, you know, this explains the UFO nuts, you know?
00:13:12.000But when they started reviewing everything with me, they were trying, I was trying to replace somebody, or they were trying to use me to replace somebody as quick as possible.
00:16:07.000But I mean, that brings up a good point.
00:16:10.000First of all, we're dealing with alien or another civilization technology, whether it, you know, it's from another dimension, another time, another planet.
00:16:26.000I'll eventually get to answer the question here, but wouldn't you think this place would be more like the lunar receiving lab where everything is white?
00:16:35.000You know, so you can see a speck of dust.
00:17:23.000Yeah, but my point is it's so nonchalant.
00:17:27.000At this point, when they first had it, it had to be at that level.
00:17:32.000And they became so used to it, so familiar with it, that, you know, to them it just became like another, you know, fighter aircraft or something from another country.
00:17:46.000So it's, it must have been there a long time, is what my point is.
00:17:53.000Because, look, as soon as you have something that unique, you don't let it just sit there in a hangar and be exposed to the environment and have security people walking by and people touching it.
00:18:08.000I mean, it's in an isolated, sealed, secure environment.
00:18:27.000So they essentially had gotten just completely acclimated to the fact that this craft exists, that it was there, and there had been relatively little progress as far as figuring it out and figuring out what it does and how to recreate it.
00:19:20.000But I think they hired plenty of you guys and you just kept going down the same road and didn't do anything.
00:19:26.000I think they were looking for somebody that just would, Have some radical idea and just to push the project forward because everything had stalled when I got there.
00:19:35.000And it was, I think they were just in a desperate move to make some progress.
00:19:40.000One of the things you talked about in the first podcast that I think is really important is that the only way for science to really progress is that these various scientists have to be able to communicate and you have to be able to share ideas and you have to be able to collaborate.
00:19:58.000But that's not how this was run because it was so top secret.
00:20:23.000With the seats, and uh, no, it started with the actual skin of the craft because everything looked like it was made from the same material.
00:20:33.000I wanted some information, um, about the skin, the superstructure of the craft, and they said, No, that's that's restricted.
00:20:42.000What's you know, we need a reason for you to.
00:20:45.000I just want to see if everything is exactly the same material, and what I call the seats in the craft.
00:20:52.000I still don't know if they're the seats, but.
00:20:56.000I think it'd be hilarious if they were actually something else.
00:21:00.000But I wanted some information on those, and that was restricted information, too.
00:21:04.000There were other groups working on that.
00:21:06.000So they compartmentalized stuff so much.
00:21:08.000There was no exchange of information between any groups.
00:21:12.000I mean, you could submit a written response that your supervisor, in my case, Dennis, would have to carry over and they would have to approve, and you'd get a two or three line response from.
00:21:24.000You know, the other group, but that's not how science works.
00:21:28.000Science works on the free exchange of information.
00:21:31.000And they were just killing themselves with security.
00:21:41.000So, was this a function of security people, people that are concentrated on top security, that don't truly understand how collaborative science works?
00:21:58.000Whatever that thing was made out of probably in some way interacts with the propulsion system and whatever controls that are in it, that this material has to be particularly unique.
00:23:14.000It was self defeating, is what it was.
00:23:16.000It seems like they were treating it like a fighter jet or an automobile.
00:23:21.000Like in an automobile, you have the outer area, the shell of the car, you have the doors, the skins, the hood, the roof, all that stuff, which is met.
00:23:31.000But then you have the propulsion system, which is the engine, the transmission, the tires, the wheels, and the suspension.
00:25:41.000We all knew that because we'd get requests from other groups, and you could tell they're desperate just like we are and fighting against the system.
00:25:59.000Where is the energy being transferred here?
00:26:01.000If the reactor fires up, is there a field present around it, or is the field just absorbed into the emitter and you can touch the reactor itself?
00:26:15.000Little things like that, you know, if, and actually that was an important thing.
00:26:20.000When the reactor's operating, is it perfectly tuned, the emitter, to where it removes all the energy from the reactor and pushes it out the bottom?
00:26:50.000There were only 22 people there total, including myself.
00:26:55.000So, I would like for you to tell Joe one of the things that always interested me because I built the craft is how the waveguide worked with the ceiling interior and how it blended.
00:27:09.000If you can explain, there was no telescopic.
00:27:12.000Well, this is why we wanted to talk to the metallurgist people.
00:27:17.000The reactor that sits on the bottom of the craft has a little dome over it, and there's something that looks like a pipe that's slight.
00:27:26.000You can lift it up and take the reactor out, put the reactor in, and lift it down.
00:27:31.000But you know, like an antenna works on an old walkie talkie, it has different sections.
00:33:02.000It's actually three stages to the life it's before it, during, and after it.
00:33:08.000Before it was just my life, during was when it happened, and then the after part of my life is almost trying to dismiss it, you know, to just go on.
00:33:18.000Yeah, you didn't talk about it for a long time.
00:33:21.000I mean, you did the George Knapp interviews, you talked about it a little, you made some videos explaining things and how things worked.
00:33:27.000No, I don't really like public attention.
00:33:29.000And, uh, I don't really like doing interviews, as you probably know.
00:33:39.000You know, but I know there's people that thrive on that stuff, but, you know, I felt privileged to be part of the project, but it left me with an insatiable appetite.
00:33:53.000Oh my God, I want to know where it's gone.
00:33:57.000Look, even when I was there in the 80s, they were talking about moving the project at that time.
00:34:03.000So, I really, I'm dying to know is it still there?
00:34:11.000Did they split it up and move it to other places?
00:34:16.000Yeah, I remember Barry talking about moving it to the South Pacific, like in Kwajalein or something, but they said the expenses were so great they couldn't do that, but they wanted it away from everybody.
00:34:27.000And they hated the fact that it was right alongside the highway in Nevada.
00:34:59.000So, like the original Apollo program, you know, back in the Apollo program, if they needed parts, And if somebody had something ordered UPS or through the mail or whatever, they had the authority to stop that shipment to that other person and take their stuff if they needed it.
00:35:15.000And, you know, they had an unlimited budget.
00:35:18.000I mean, if you're working like that, you could do anything.
00:35:22.000Or at least anything that's currently possible with today's technology.
00:35:27.000Which therein lies the problem is that they're dealing with something that's not possible with, like, you couldn't build it from scratch with American technology in 1989.
00:35:37.000No, but that's what they wanted to do.
00:35:42.000And really thinking about that now, I'm not sure, I'm not exactly sure these guys should be allowed to do that.
00:35:55.000I mean, we have a lot of crazy people doing stuff now.
00:35:59.000And nonsense transmits through the population at the speed of light.
00:36:05.000And, you know, I don't know, this can be a very powerful, world conquering technology.
00:36:13.000And, Look, for 40 years, I think I've said this before, for 40 years, all the people in control of this information have all agreed to keep it quiet.
00:37:07.000Because I don't think it's ever healthy if small groups of individuals have information that would change our understanding of where we are.
00:37:36.000Maybe, I mean, what if it's, I'm not saying this is what it is, but I mean, what if it's like, you know, like we raise cows out in a field and just feed them grass and they're just going to be food?
00:38:31.000Or someone who buys into conspiracy theories, if you just look at all the other biology on Earth, why is one so uniquely able to manipulate its environment, communicate instantaneously at distance, can't really even exist in its environment in most places that it lives without clothes and shelter?
00:38:56.000Like, we don't seem to have normally adapted to our environment.
00:39:01.000With the way we've completely controlled our environment with air conditioning and electricity and electronics and flight and travel, we're so beyond everything else that evolved.
00:39:14.000Whereas every other animal, predator or prey, plant eater or meat eater, all seems to cohesively exist inside of its ecosystem.
00:39:25.000And then you have us, which is like almost like an invasive species.
00:39:30.000Like invasive species destroy ecosystems because they don't belong there.
00:39:59.000So, Tim Burchett has recently been talking about this, and he can't talk about it because it's classified, but he said you'd be up at night with the things that I've seen.
00:40:09.000if the things that I've seen have released.
00:40:18.000Ah, well, I was briefed, and I will tell you this.
00:40:21.000I was briefed last week on an issue, or excuse me, two weeks ago, and it would have set the earth on.
00:40:26.000This country would have become unglued.
00:40:28.000I think if they would have heard all that I heard.
00:40:31.000Well, this is what I was talking about.
00:40:33.000If, you know, it's not like there's a bunch of space brothers coming down going, oh, look what we discovered, you know, here, have some information, and, you know, What if it's not that?
00:42:13.000He, you know, he was an accomplished pilot, had many world records and things of that, you know, part of the Lear family, that his father invented autopilot, the eight track tape, all kinds of stuff.
00:42:28.000And, uh, But John Lear was a loose cannon.
00:42:33.000At the time, he'd fly from Las Vegas and shuttle L 1011s, which are giant planes, back and forth.
00:43:13.000You know, and I get on the plane and they said, you know, just act like you're, you know, going to kick everyone's ass.
00:43:19.000So I go on there and I'd sit in the, they fold down a jump seat behind the plane and I just sit there looking at everybody and, God, all this stuff is so illegal.
00:43:30.000And, you know, Get on there and fly, and you know, John would take.
00:43:36.000The L 1011 was a pretty advanced plane at the time, this was in the 80s.
00:43:41.000And you know, John would be smoking his pipe, he'd take off, he'd put his feet up and smoke his pipe, and he'd fall asleep.
00:43:50.000I'd just be, you know, hanging out there.
00:43:52.000And you know, before the plane would land, he'd just, you know, wake up and you know, be smoking his pipe, and the plane would land itself.
00:44:01.000At the time, my wife was taking flying lessons, and um.
00:44:07.000He said, yeah, yeah, you know, bring her up here.
00:44:12.000I think they had an engineer also on another panel.
00:44:16.000I don't quite remember, but I was there with my wife.
00:44:19.000There were people on board, and he'd say, Hey, come on here and take the wheel.
00:44:24.000And he'd get the captain of the plane, which, you know, I think my wife was in her 20s at the time, and just sit her down and say, Yeah, hold on to it and, you know, just keep correcting.
00:44:36.000And he'd just let her fly the plane, which is insane.
00:44:41.000And, you know, the co pilot would just.
00:44:44.000Look over, and I remember looking over at the engineer that looked at the gauges, and he just put his head down and pretended like nothing was happening.
00:44:54.000And that was just one time, another time he was ferrying an L 1011 going by Roswell.
00:45:03.000At the time, I was living in New Mexico, and they called him and told him he wasn't getting paid, that the company was, you know, defaulted or something like that.
00:45:18.000He was coming up to New Mexico and landed at the Roswell, just took the plane and landed at the Roswell airport, the whole 1011.
00:45:27.000Got off, walked out, walked up to a bus station, gave me a call on the pay phone and said, Hey, Bob, I'm coming over.
00:45:57.000But I mean, John Lair was such like a loose cannon.
00:46:01.000He was a great friend to have, but he had no bullshit filter.
00:46:07.000If he had a retired general come up and give him all kinds of information, or if he had a psychic come up from, you know, the neighborhood and give him all kinds of information, he'd put him in the same category.
00:46:23.000You know, and so he really did have useful information that was difficult to get, but it was mixed up with nonsense.
00:47:36.000Like just because they've said something that's nonsense doesn't mean necessarily that this thing they're saying is not true, this other thing.
00:47:47.000You've got, like, I talk to a lot of people that say a lot of kooky things that don't make any sense, but then they'll say something that rings true.
00:47:54.000It's difficult because you have to have some sort of an understanding of the human psyche and of those kind of people because there are kind of people that have very loose nets.
00:48:06.000You're counting on their filter working like yours.
00:51:10.000I always said everything has been the Navy instead of the Air Force because, you know, back in the 60s and 70s, you know, there's Project Blue Burke and the Air Force and all that.
00:51:20.000But, um, Everything associated with this was the Navy.
00:51:27.000So, and in these days, you hear some of these new types of craft that are transmedium.
00:51:36.000Yeah, you hear the word transmedium, and David Fravor, Commander David Fravor, you know, with the tic tac, and, you know, things are under the water.
00:51:47.000And, you know, supposedly the craft that the sport model was an archaeological recovery, and that itself was underwater.
00:52:03.000I mean, it's by far the biggest medium of the planet.
00:52:10.000I mean, if you want to hide people down there, almost an entire civilization down there, you could do it in the ocean, as long as you do it deep enough and away from people.
00:52:22.000So, yeah, number one is what's the deal with the ocean?
00:52:25.000That's probably the number one question.
00:52:28.000Because there's a ton of sightings where people see things come out of the water.
00:52:35.000Yeah, there has to be a reason for that.
00:52:37.000Well, it just in terms of if they have the ability to travel through space, if whatever that thing is really does create some sort of a gravity bubble or some sort of a space time bubble.
00:53:39.000Look, you know, if you look in history, especially, you know, United States history, anytime a superior race or intelligence meets with an inferior one, it's never good for the inferior guys.
00:54:13.000Now, maybe that's just what humans do, but I would be concerned that's what all life does.
00:54:20.000Well, we are territorial primates, and that makes sense that that's what we do.
00:54:26.000The thing that always fascinates me about particularly the grays, they seem to be genderless and they seem to have no muscle at all, and they seem to have enormous heads.
00:54:38.000The stories, at least, the anecdotal accounts of people having communication with these creatures is that they communicate.
00:54:50.000If you transcend all of our weird biological needs, like all the things that are attached to being a human being ego, lust, greed, desire to conquer, desire to control resources all those things are territorial primate instincts.
00:55:07.000And one of the conversations I had yesterday with my friend Theo, we were talking about what's happening to people's bodies is that people are slowly.
00:55:18.000We're consuming microplastics and phthalates and all these things that are reducing our reproductive system, our testosterone's dropping.
00:56:16.000Well, it can't be just diagnosed because, I mean, I know so many people that have nonverbal autistic kids, where I didn't know anybody that had nonverbal autistic kids when I was younger.
00:56:29.000You know, I mean, back in the 60s and 70s, there were no kids with ADHD.
00:56:36.000Kids that were like that were just assholes.
00:57:28.000I don't think, I think with ADHD, you're taking kids, you're putting them in a completely unnatural environment, you're making them sit down.
00:57:35.000They don't want to sit down, they're very active and energetic.
00:57:37.000You're making them study things by very unenthusiastic teachers.
00:58:45.000When you look at the schedule of vaccines and how it ramped up, and it completely correlates with the ramping up of the diagnoses of autism, but without casting aspersions or getting into some anti vaccine conversation.
00:59:06.000So I had a conversation with Shanna Swan, Dr. Shanna Swan, who is, she studies.
00:59:13.000Environmental endocrine disruptors, so various toxins, phthalates, microplastics, and plasticizers that are completely disruptive to people's endocrine system, reproductive system.
00:59:27.000From the introduction of these petrochemical products in the 1950s and 60s, you see a direct correlation between the dip in testosterone rates amongst men, the increase of miscarriages and infertility, and then on top of that, the actual shrinking of their taint.
00:59:47.000So, one of the ways they find out the difference between mammals, some mammals in particular, when you see a baby mammal, the difference between a male and a female is easily recognized by the size of the gap between their anal hole and where their genitals are.
01:01:26.000And what we are transcending it, whether we like it or not.
01:01:29.000And what I was saying is that I don't know if it's a bug.
01:01:33.000I think it might be a feature of evolution that our insistence on using plastics and technology and all of these different environmental toxins that we use to produce energy and all the goods and services that we need also are disrupting our endocrine system and changing us.
01:01:57.000From being these hulking, hair covered cavemen to being these very small, slight autistic men that can fucking code 24 hours a day without sleep.
01:04:44.000Society, right now, we have a lot of problems.
01:04:47.000The problems that we don't have are technology.
01:04:49.000Our technology seems completely suitable to this world that we're living in right now.
01:04:54.000Let's just stop making new things and concentrate on cleaning the rivers and concentrate on stopping crime and concentrate on educating people, concentrate on counseling for troubled young people.
01:05:05.000No, no, we just plow forward ahead with the one thing that we absolutely guarantee do.
01:05:12.000We make better weapons, better cars, faster planes.
01:05:15.000Everything we do, we make things better.
01:05:17.000And I'll, and I'll, sorry, I have to add, we do that and we also do it in a way where it's economically beneficial to the ones that are making it because we make things break now.
01:06:17.000Ensures a constant fueling of innovation because this is one of the things that gets people excited about collecting new stuff, you're going to make a better version.
01:06:29.000Like, it doesn't matter how good your Mercedes is.
01:06:37.000And so it's like all built into the human psychology and also to this thing that I said, like I said, if you were somewhere from somewhere else and studying this species, what does it do?
01:07:16.000Well, ultimately, all that does, all of it releases more endocrine disruptors, more contact with all these different chemicals and toxins, feminizes men, ruins women's reproductive systems to the point where ultimately we say, oh, for the survival of the race, we're going to have to figure out how to reproduce.
01:09:14.000I think what the grays are is a combination of technology and biology.
01:09:18.000And if you just go from chimp to caveman to gray, you go, oh, I see where that's going.
01:09:27.000Chimp, caveman, human, modern human, gelatinous, soft, slow moving, weak modern human, grays.
01:09:38.000Like, I've always leaned into what Barry told me because it's the only information I had that the craft came from Zeta Reticuli, which is a star system.
01:10:05.000That might be one of those things they put in that's nonsense.
01:10:08.000Again, if it has to do with time, I think from what George has told me, Jacques Valet and some other really credible researchers have said that these are people either from another dimension or another time.
01:10:57.000Maybe part of it is like it has to get so far sideways that we realize how fucked up everything is that we start making meaningful changes and implement AI as government.
01:14:32.000And shortly after time goes on, you know, they realize, wow, the computer's really performing better than we expected.
01:14:42.000And as it turns out, Russia had done the same thing, and the computers want to communicate together.
01:14:51.000And, you know, they start communicating, and then the United States goes, Well, they might be giving our secrets away, so we better, you know, cut the communication line.
01:15:03.000And the computers freak out and they go, Well, I guess we'll just launch nuclear bombs, you know, at everybody.
01:15:09.000And it launches weapons and, you know, essentially holds everybody hostage.
01:15:14.000But, um, Of, like, a trap, it's kind of like a trap.
01:15:20.000Yeah, if we go that way, it could trap us.
01:16:19.000Was there ever any conversation that you were privy to where they discussed?
01:16:23.000Because one of the things that does come up over and over again in UFO discussions is these crafts that show up at these military bases and shut down all the weapon systems.
01:16:33.000No, I actually know nothing about that.
01:16:38.000Most of the UFO stuff or UFO lore that I've heard, I don't know anything about.
01:17:22.000So, you know, they were the first abductees.
01:17:25.000I mean, to me, they're, I don't know who first introduced those to me, and I looked them up.
01:17:31.000And, you know, people said, Do you believe them?
01:17:37.000And I'm kind of inclined to believe them because, look, in the 1960s, right, where they're from, the last thing you want to do is be recognized as a mixed race couple.
01:18:09.000And you hear the, and actually, on top of that, I have a connection to them because Barry said they're from the Zeta Reticuli star system, and I believe it's Betty.
01:18:22.000Betty Hill drew a map of the Zeta Reticuli star system and said this is part of their roots.
01:19:37.000And it ended up being the Zeta Reticuli binary star system, which was really interesting.
01:19:44.000And I remember when I first heard about Bob's story back in 1989 and he said Zeta Reticuli, I remember thinking, wow, that's what Betty Hill saw.
01:19:54.000So that made me also question is that real in that document?
01:19:59.000Did these guys really come from there?
01:20:01.000You know, because it was mentioned in 1968.
01:20:31.000We were talking about this whole Zeta Reticuli thing.
01:20:34.000So, when you're dealing with so many different crafts and so many different things, the idea that only one species or one thing more advanced than us is visiting us seems kind of silly.
01:20:50.000If the universe is populated by all these things, I don't know.
01:21:05.000I would imagine it's like spots that you visit, like, you know, there's Machu Picchu, there's ancient Egypt, there's, you know, sub Saharan Africa.
01:21:16.000It's a bunch of different places where people go, you know, just humans on Earth.
01:21:20.000And I would imagine if you have an understanding of how life is evolving in the cosmos, there's probably stages where things reach certain levels.
01:22:24.000Let's say they fly around these little crafts.
01:22:26.000Why would we assume that it stops there?
01:22:28.000Why wouldn't we assume that technology gets to the point where not only are they far more advanced than them, but they also are completely undetectable?
01:22:36.000Well, if you want to view the universe as infinite, then it never stops.
01:22:41.000There's somebody above them, and there's somebody above them, and there's somebody above that, and it never stops.
01:22:46.000I was watching this lecture where this woman was talking about quantum entanglement.
01:22:50.000And she was talking about how maybe our understanding of space and the distance between things is limited by what our current technology is and our current understanding of what space and time actually are.
01:23:09.000And what she was saying is there might not be, we might at one point in time, given enough time-thousands of years or whatever-be able to instantaneously travel anywhere.
01:23:20.000And that just how, like, Quantum, like subatomic particles are connected in some sort of a strange way that we don't totally understand, even at far distance, spooky action at a distance, right?
01:23:32.000That we might eventually get to a point where that's how travel works instantaneous travel everywhere.
01:23:39.000I think we just have hints of these technologies.
01:23:41.000Look, everything, you know, we look at Maxwell's equations and things like that, that we base all electromagnetic, electrostatic, you know, actions on, and How they relate to time and how they relate to things in our universe, but that may be nothing.
01:24:04.000There may be an entire level of physics that we're unfamiliar with that these crafts, these people, or these civilizations just utilize.
01:24:21.000I mean, if you just stop and think about going from Morse code to a cell phone.
01:24:27.000In a relatively short period of time, historically, you go to the difference between 1200 and 1400 is not that big of a fucking deal in terms of technology, what's available.
01:24:38.000The difference between 1800 and 2026 is fucking massive.
01:25:27.000That's why you can't scale out to 1,000 years.
01:25:29.000And if you think it's exponential now, Imagine when you have AI able to generate better versions of itself, which is what's happening with ChatGPT 5.
01:26:14.000It's not like, even if you and I are not going to actually do it, somebody will, and it's going to integrate because other people will, and it's going to happen.
01:27:10.000How did you guys figure out what the function of it was and what it did?
01:27:17.000So, when you're first introduced to this craft and you see this dome, the reactor that's covering this thing that's generating this power, what was the introduction to it?
01:28:01.000They only found a small tube that went around it.
01:28:05.000They really couldn't determine how it worked or what was going on.
01:28:10.000So at some point, and Barry made this somewhat clear that they cut into the reactor while it was running, or while it was under load, I should say, and the reactor exploded.
01:28:33.000That's what killed or hurt the person that I replaced.
01:28:37.000But it produced the base gravitational wave or base energy that propelled the craft, that provided the craft the propulsion.
01:28:53.000I mean, when they removed it, the craft didn't work.
01:28:55.000When they put it in, every single other craft they found had something either exactly like it or similar to it.
01:29:03.000They determined that was the power source.
01:29:06.000That's at the point that I was introduced into the project.
01:29:09.000So when you say gravitational wave, is that for lack of a better term or is it something that's measured?
01:29:17.000Look, there's nothing, I mean, as I said in Luigi's movie, you can take magnets with like poles and push them together and they repel, but you can't take your hands ever and push on something and they repel them.
01:30:12.000No, at some point you can't push back on it at all.
01:30:16.000But the important thing is if you have a magnet, a little disc magnet sitting on the ground, and you have another magnet and you push on it, that magnet moves away, right?
01:30:39.000If you had the reactor there and you pushed back on it, it didn't push away when you pushed on it.
01:30:46.000It just prevented you from touching it.
01:30:48.000And so when Dennis said, go out there and look under the craft, here's the craft, whatever it weighs, suspending itself above the ground, and I went underneath it.
01:32:25.000So, one of the things like do you know Diana Pasolke is?
01:32:28.000She's an author that's written some interesting stuff about UFOs and she's worked with Gary Nolan and on material recollection from supposed crash sites.
01:32:40.000And she said that the way these researchers refer to these crafts, they refer to them as donations.
01:41:42.000So, how did they define this material?
01:41:47.000No, there's different isotopes of every element.
01:41:53.000And element 115, just like any other element, there can be a stable version of it and a hundred or fifty different unstable elements to them.
01:44:25.000The 115 is in a little triangular piece.
01:44:30.000And it was interacting with that in some fashion.
01:44:35.000And did he say whether or not the United States government or whoever was doing this research had tried to recreate one of those on their own?
01:44:46.000That was our job to try to recreate one of those on their own.
01:44:49.000But what was the metal that it was made out of?
01:49:50.000Now, my friend Ben Van Kirkwick, he has Uncharted X on YouTube.
01:49:55.000It's an amazing channel where he was a tech guy who just got absolutely fascinated by all these stories of ancient history and really got obsessed with Egypt and Peru and left his field and started making these incredible videos.
01:50:17.000And really, he's very well versed scientifically, so you can understand these things and explain them to you.
01:50:27.000Like, they're examining the construction of the pyramids and whatever technology was used to carve the stones.
01:50:34.000And there's just so much of it that is confusing because it clearly is like a very high level of sophistication and technology that's involved in creating these things.
01:50:45.000Well, Herodotus described these labyrinths.
01:50:48.000That were underground in Giza, not in Giza, but Hawara?
01:51:07.000Well, these massive labyrinths that exist underground were all flooded in the 1960s accidentally when they created dams in order to provide irrigation to agriculture that was in the area.
01:51:22.000They changed the water table, fucked it up.
01:53:32.000So, this particle collider, they use this technology to show that you can see straight through this mountain to this particle collider that's underneath the mountain.
01:53:43.000So, they know the exact dimensions of this particle collider.
01:53:46.000You can see, you can almost draw a schematic of it.
01:53:48.000Well, through this technology, they've also found these columns that are below the pyramids.
01:53:53.000These columns are 22 meters, 20 plus meters in diameter, and they have something that resembles coils around all of them.
01:54:04.000And they're positioned at various points all around where the structure is.
01:54:08.000It goes all the way down, hundreds of meters down, and then it goes to another structure, and the whole complex of it, these structures, Goes to over a kilometer into the ground.
01:54:19.000But how can you see a kilometer underground?
01:54:21.000Well, you'd have to understand this technology.
01:54:58.000There's actual studies that are currently being discussed.
01:55:02.000Well, they already know that there are these channels that go in the ground that have since been covered with silt and sand because the sand's constantly moving.
01:55:11.000But these things go hundreds of meters down, these shafts that go down.
01:55:16.000If they find shafts hundreds of meters down with coils around them, look, that's advanced technology.
01:55:25.000Whatever this thing is that they have in an atrium, like if they said that they got that craft from an archaeological dig, I mean, maybe the Egyptians had found something similar to this thousands and thousands and thousands of years ago.
01:58:20.000So, this is what they think it looks like under the ground, which is fucking completely bonkers.
01:58:27.000And if there is some 40 meter metallic object that's under the ground, and we are talking about this sport model being a part of an archaeological dig, they might have found something back then and worshipped that thing and had that thing as like, you know.
01:58:48.000Well, you know, all these people that believe that there was an incredibly advanced civilization before some sort of apocalyptic disaster that reset civilization and it took thousands of years.
01:59:00.000And what we are essentially is not the first advanced civilization, but a rebuild.
01:59:20.000If you're dealing with people that were basically knocked back into the Stone Age 11,000, 12,000 years ago, and it took us forever to rebuild to where we are now, I think we've gone down a completely different path than whatever the people that were able to build the pyramids of Egypt and all these fantastic megalithic structures.
01:59:39.000We don't understand what technology we used.
01:59:42.000And it literally doesn't make sense that they were able to do this.
01:59:46.000It's even like when we see those big, gigantic stones, and they're not just piled together, they're like interlocked in weird shapes and all that.
01:59:54.000I mean, those are things that, yeah, I agree with you.
01:59:56.000Yeah, archaeologists are very reluctant to admit it, but there's tremendous evidence that not only were these people far more advanced than we think people should have been back then, but they're probably more advanced than we are now with some different kind of technology.
02:00:12.000And maybe, again, it's like advanced, but in a different way.
02:00:28.000If you're thinking about 100,000 years ago, there might not be anything left, which is part of the problem.
02:00:33.000But whatever this metallic object is, if they are able to figure out a way to divert some of the water there, see all layers converge in a central corridor or avenue, he said, like the atrium of a shopping mall, where you can see all floors from one vantage point.
02:01:13.000Well, they could, but it's going to cost an immense amount of money.
02:01:16.000And the thing is about the Egyptians, the people that run it, I had one of them on the podcast, Zahi Hawass, and he's incredibly dogmatic about his ideas of who built this and what.
02:01:27.000And when you say, how did they make these structures?
02:01:53.000Like one of the things that they don't understand is these vases.
02:01:58.000These vases that they made that are perfectly designed, where there's the difference between like the edges and the symmetry is like a thousandth of a human hair.
02:02:10.000And these are cut out of incredibly hard granite.
02:02:54.000Your left side of your face is different.
02:02:55.000If you combine the two sides, they look weird.
02:02:59.000But when you look at these statues, these statues, which are massive, carved out of granite, again, Supposedly, before they had steel, like they didn't have diamond tipped instruments to do this, they polished them.
02:03:11.000They're perfectly symmetrical and massive.
02:03:14.000Some of them are a thousand tons, and they don't have any understanding of how these people built these things or put them there.
02:03:20.000And they all seem to be the biggest, most spectacular ones are the oldest.
02:03:25.000How could you not want to dig those up?
02:03:31.000I mean, they're concerned about national pride, but if you dig them up, I mean, it's not just national pride, it's the pride of the people that have.
02:03:39.000Been espousing this one narrative for so long.
02:03:50.000Their own ego is preventing them from being open minded and calling out to the world's research communities and saying, listen, there's something going on here.
02:04:18.000Some of the carvings on these things are far cruder in the way they've done it than the actual construction of the thing.
02:04:25.000And they think that these are old things that were there already, and then these later pharaohs chiseled their hieroglyphs into these things.
02:04:35.000And another thing, and this has been mentioned a lot, is the fact that there's no tools that were ever discovered.
02:04:43.000In those areas that would prove that those things were made with those, and they had to use tools.
02:05:36.000So basically, he was talking about the fact that there's two layers of ancient stuff in Peru.
02:05:42.000The first layer is younger, and what's below it is what's really incredible and more complex.
02:05:47.000More complex, but they don't want to go there because you're going to destroy an existing archaeological site that's on top of it.
02:05:55.000So, what's happening is they're having trouble now getting permission to go to the lower level, which is even better because they're going to have to break an archaeological site of a more recent part of that civilization.
02:06:09.000Well, this is a common theme among people.
02:06:13.000There's a place that I go to in Italy in the Amalfi Coast, and there's this incredible old church there that's over a thousand years old, but it's built on an even older church.
02:06:36.000So it's over a thousand years old, this church, and then this really old church is on top of it that's like hundreds and hundreds of years old, also.
02:06:45.000But they built it on top of an existing structure.
02:06:49.000This is a theme in Peru where you see the Inca construction, which is like much less complicated, smaller stones.
02:06:57.000You know, mud mortar, but it's on top of these megalithic structures that are carved in these jigsaw shapes where it seems like they've been melted.
02:07:08.000They have no understanding of what technology was used, who did it, how they did it, how they moved these immense thousand ton stones and cut them with precision in this jigsaw way so that it will absorb the energy of earthquakes and not fall down.
02:07:59.000These academics and these people that are in charge of the narrative, like the people in Egypt, where they're very arrogant and they're gatekeepers because their whole identity is based on them being the ones that explain to the world how these incredible sites were produced.
02:08:15.000And if something comes along that is counter to that narrative, they fight it.
02:08:20.000They fight it because it's part of them, it's their identity.
02:08:24.000When I spoke to Filippo Biondi, I talked to one of my cousins in Italy.
02:08:27.000I spent a lot of my time in Italy when I was younger.
02:08:30.000One of them, she was younger than I was when I was there, but she's now become a respected archaeologist in Rome, and she's an Egyptologist.
02:09:29.000But she said it whispering because she knew that that's not well seen at the table because now she's going to come across as this pseudoscience type of like, oh my God, she's going to come out of the mainstream, you know.
02:09:44.000So, and then she came, she went to her place, and I was still there.
02:09:53.000And in Italian, I don't know how to say it, the missing.
02:10:01.000I don't know how to say it in English, but the missing Vangelo, like the missing scriptures, basically.
02:10:07.000It's a little book in Italian about the missing scriptures that are not in the Bible that speak of things that are not convenient for what we are arrogant to think we understand.
02:10:20.000And one of the fascinating things about these missing scriptures is they found them alongside existing scriptures.
02:10:25.000So when they found the Dead Sea Scrolls in Qumran, so they found these in a cave in Qumran, it's kind of a crazy thing.
02:10:33.000And hit a clay pot and heard the shattering of a clay pot.
02:10:36.000So they threw a rock into this high cave and realized there was something in there, and then they started looking.
02:10:44.000And then they found these scrolls that were in these clay pots.
02:10:47.000Inside the scrolls, they found the book of Isaiah.
02:10:49.000It was a thousand years older than the oldest version of the book of Isaiah that we had ever found, and it's identical verbatim to the book of Isaiah that is currently in the Bible.
02:11:13.000Just a few rabbis decided that the book of Enoch was too weird because it didn't jive with the Torah, so they left it out of the biblical canon.
02:14:38.000Well, if you think about what we're talking about with sentient AI, an AI that has the ability to make better versions of itself, what happens if it's left alone for a thousand years to do this?
02:14:50.000You have something that can harness the power of the universe itself.
02:14:55.000The zero point energy can do whatever it, I mean, has a complete understanding of quantum entanglement, complete understanding of how the universe functions, how it was created.
02:15:05.000I mean, there's new theories that believe that the entire universe itself exists inside of a black hole.
02:15:10.000They're trying to figure out whether or not there ever was a Big Bang or if it's a continuous cycle of things existing inside black holes.
02:15:22.000I think we're at a stage of a process.
02:15:25.000Our problem is we have ideology, we have.
02:15:29.000We have dogma, we have ego, we have people that are smarter than most people but want to think that they have all the information, and I don't think they do.
02:15:38.000And then we have open minded people that are curious but don't want to look like kooks, and they're all trying to figure it out while we're making a fucking digital god.
02:15:46.000Why these weirdo on the spectrum agents.
02:15:48.000We are literally manufacturing our own god.
02:16:20.000I think human curiosity and this thirst for innovation is all a part of it.
02:16:26.000I'll say something about the technology because it always fascinates me.
02:16:30.000I mean, I spent four years with Bobinet to build it in a virtual environment, so I kind of had to think about it while I'm doing it, but.
02:16:37.000If you really think about what this technology that you saw does, it essentially creates this artificial field of whether it's artificial, maybe it's natural, maybe it's a natural field, but it creates a field that we're not familiar with.
02:16:50.000And that field, I mean, Joe, you saw the movie, there was a test that was done in the lab that froze a candle flame.
02:17:00.000But the photons are still visible within our realm here outside of the field, and you're still seeing the photons, yet it looks like it's frozen.
02:17:35.000Whether it's computing power, now we're seeing quantum computers do things that are faster and faster, and they could do a trillion processes in an instant, and Japan is coming up with better, and then China.
02:17:47.000But because everything has to do with how long does it take to do that.
02:17:57.000It's like the record player playing music, but you're now able to lift it, lift the little pin on the record and move it to wherever you want.
02:18:12.000And if we have a technology similar to what you saw, because you always said gravity is a control, gravity and time, it's interlocked, right?
02:18:24.000So if that's interlocked, Then we have to look at it not just as a propulsion system or some type of cool weapon, but how is it affecting time and how can we use that to our benefit to evolve faster?
02:18:41.000Because again, the faster we can compute, the faster we could do something, the faster we're evolving.
02:18:49.000And if we could lift that needle and bring it faster to get there, to get somewhere, why not use it?
02:19:09.000Do you remember, Jamie, who discussed the way they were describing the use of some of this alien technology as instantaneous weapon deployment systems?
02:20:24.000And again, it's a world dominating technology.
02:20:28.000And I don't know what to do with it other than to keep it from people.
02:20:34.000So, and how do we know if it comes up?
02:20:38.000Something I always struggle with is let's say we do get some type of thing saying, all right, we have to see it from somebody in the government, the president, whoever, that says, okay, here we are, we have this.
02:20:53.000Well, first of all, we have to validate it.
02:20:55.000The journalists are going to, the whole world, the media is not going to just trust somebody saying that.
02:21:00.000They're going to go, okay, wait a minute, what are you talking about?
02:21:02.000So it's not like because somebody says it, we just have to swallow it.
02:22:07.000And that's why you have this stagma, this stagnation of where you've got these people working on this thing for decades and not making any progress.
02:22:15.000Do you know how far we could have gotten if there was free discussion?
02:22:20.000Between all the groups working on this.
02:23:40.000Because you've been holding on to this and you have this experience from 40 years ago that's just become a part of folklore, it's become part of the zeitgeist.
02:23:54.000This is why your podcast that we did is the most watched podcast I've ever done.
02:23:58.000This resonates with people in a way that, look, I've done a lot of UFO ones.
02:25:26.000But, you know, I know what I did see, I know for a fact.
02:25:31.000And there is no way you can tell me that that's not real.
02:25:40.000I mean, I have to say, in having worked with him and having, you know, inadvertently, there's no way that myself or people on my team weren't trying to dig deeper.
02:27:33.000We decided to research the type that were used back then in the United States, especially on military bases, the halogen power, because this was halogen in 1988.
02:27:48.000Christopher Matto, by the way, a big shout out to Christopher Matto that's on my team who made a lot of those visuals and he's like a magician.
02:29:01.000So, we were filming, the whole film was done with Black Magic 6K cams.
02:29:07.000So, we would bring our Black Magics in the 3D environment.
02:29:10.000You can actually set that so that we could film.
02:29:13.000Inside the craft, so it matches the filming of our real cameras.
02:29:18.000And so, as soon as the camera's on, it's the same lens, it's the same aperture, everything is as you would have it.
02:29:25.000And so, you're trying to adjust for this dark room.
02:29:28.000But if the room is really dark, you can't really get a good look at it because if you go close enough, you would have seen like a seat and a little bit of the reactor, but you would have been like, What's the black screen I'm looking at?
02:29:40.000So, what is the explanation for why it's so dark?
02:30:31.000And sorry to interrupt, but that would have been.
02:30:34.000So, when that happened, and we have the right material, which is like this, let's call it unpolished stainless steel, it's got a little bit of usage to it just to give it some texture.
02:30:46.000It's got the same sheen, reflection, refractions of a real material like that.
02:30:50.000Because every time we put a fake light in there, okay, it's reacting like that.
02:30:54.000And now you turn these big halogen lights on, and it's like the part of where the halogen is hitting the ceiling of the craft because they were turned upwards.
02:31:03.000Remember, Bob said they were not pointed like this, they were pointed to the ceiling of the craft.
02:31:38.000If he's trying to make that up, Anybody who's inventing a story says there's two industrial light with four bright halogen spots in there, a liar would not say it was really dark in there.
02:33:16.000I researched a lot of stuff on Bob Lazar before I did this, and there's a lot of bad information out there.
02:33:21.000So, I really tell people if you really want to see what he saw, don't go read what's out there.
02:33:26.000Check this out because Bob actually vetted everything.
02:33:29.000So, it's not the wrong information to read.
02:33:31.000But anyway, there's a lot of detractors saying there's no way Lazar could have seen that flag.
02:33:37.000If the craft was that size and it was on the craft shell, there's no way the angle, he's five something, he wouldn't have been able to see it.
02:34:50.000So, had Bob Lazar not actually seen that, the majority of the detractors out there kept saying there's no way at that angle a human eye could see a sticker on the top of the craft, which is on the top shell.
02:36:07.000In American flag use law, the only thing we were able to ascertain is the fact that on military or on vehicles, anything military on a uniform, if ever you see an American flag on your right shoulder, It's reversed because it's how the wind is blowing the flag.
02:36:28.000On your left side, it's like the flag is because the wind is blowing this way.
02:36:33.000If you look at vehicles, let's say a Greyhound bus, they have American flags on each side and they have a normal one on the left side and a reversed one on the right side because it's the right side of the vehicle.
02:38:08.000When I put on the 3D AR goggles and you, VR goggles rather, and you stand in that warehouse, that hanger, and look at it, it's very strange.
02:42:36.000If we're putting this out there, if we're building this facility out there, and if they did have it, that also makes sense that they've worked on this for decades.
02:42:43.000You come along in 1988, they've got this happening in the 1950s, and it's still there.
02:42:50.000I think what happened is when the CIA took over, because CIA is the one who took over Area 51, they're the ones at Area 51.
02:42:58.000I think what happened is as they took over, they just removed the road.
02:43:02.000It wasn't even because there was a flying saucer there.
02:43:06.000I just think they got in there, took control of that terrain, that whole landscape, and said, remove it off the maps because it's there prior to them taking ownership of that land.
02:43:18.000So, I mean, it's clear that there was a road there, and then they came in, CIA said, take it out.
02:43:28.000Already an installation, not it wasn't an installation, but they probably had a tunnel in there already because they were it was a mine, so it was an easier way to build a big facility in the side of the hill.
02:44:04.000So, that image that you got of the, unfortunately, it's kind of blurry, but you do see something that looks very similar to what you'd expect to be camouflaged garage bay doors.
02:44:18.000I got contacted by a guy called Scott Mitchell, and I was getting contacted by everybody, Joe.
02:44:25.000Everybody was trying to get in and find, getting to make me work with them or use something they found.
02:45:39.000And he says there are pictures that were taken in 2020.
02:45:43.000And ironically, those pictures were taken on December 25th, 2020, which is Christmas Day in the middle of COVID, which means the base might have been shut down.
02:45:54.000If you think about that, you know what I mean?
02:45:56.000Like, it's COVID, it's like in the heat of it.
02:46:49.000I mean, there could be a different landscape now.
02:46:52.000Anyway, so he said, Look, this image, if you change the contrast, you got to keep the original, but just move and try to extract data from your image.
02:47:05.000Anybody who knows how to do that with photography, you can do that.
02:47:09.000And he pulls out these geometric shapes.
02:47:14.000You could see them, they're like little.
02:51:11.000I didn't want to put anything in the film that would make me, the whole team, or even Bob look like we're trying to like MacGyver something in there.
02:51:21.000It has to be you go look for it yourself.