The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2479 - Bob Lazar & Luigi Vendittelli

00:00:02.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

00:00:03.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:12.000 We're up, gentlemen.

00:00:13.000 Hey, Joe.

00:00:14.000 Great to see you again, Bob.

00:00:15.000 Same here, long time.

00:00:16.000 Luigi, Joe.

00:00:18.000 You are still to this day the most watched ever podcast we have ever done that's on YouTube.

00:00:26.000 That's just unreal.

00:00:27.000 It's unreal.

00:00:28.000 It is unreal because it shows you how many people are just absolutely fascinated by the story.

00:00:36.000 And what you guys have done in this new film is essentially recreate S4 and using AI, recreate you as a young man and these experiences that you had.

00:00:49.000 And it was really excellent.

00:00:51.000 Luigi, you're the one who put the film together, you figured it all out.

00:00:56.000 And first of all, what was the technology that you guys used to recreate everything that we did?

00:01:01.000 Yeah, I just want to say there's about 10% AI in the film, but there's 90% Blender.

00:01:09.000 And that's actually handmade CGI.

00:01:12.000 So everything you see is all handmade.

00:01:16.000 And even the de aging of Bob Lazar, we scanned Bob.

00:01:20.000 We went over to his house, scanned his face, took a process of de aging him through that, then creating a digital model of Bob in different ages, and then placing him in the environment.

00:01:34.000 And then in some instances, at the very end, we perfected or kind of put a bow on it.

00:01:42.000 With a little touch of AI, but the whole thing is handmade.

00:01:45.000 So the craft, the environment, the papoose lake, the facility, the equipment, and the people were all made.

00:01:53.000 And some of the people are actually real actors that we put in there.

00:01:56.000 So it's not, there's one of the guys that is Barry in the film, a guy called Luis Martinez that's been working with me for the past 10 years.

00:02:05.000 And he laughs at it because he goes, I can't believe I'm Barry.

00:02:08.000 Does he look anything like Barry?

00:02:10.000 Actually, he does.

00:02:11.000 He does.

00:02:12.000 That's why we chose him.

00:02:13.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:02:14.000 Where is the actual Barry now?

00:02:17.000 I don't know.

00:02:18.000 You know, I kind of thought at one point, after all this happened, we would at least hear from one of those guys.

00:02:25.000 But I never heard from anybody after the initial release of all the information.

00:02:33.000 Yeah.

00:02:34.000 It seems like, wow, I don't know.

00:02:37.000 If people are able to keep secrets for this long, it's got to be very difficult to just blurt it out.

00:02:43.000 Like, you know, you're holding on to a secret for 20, 30, 40 years.

00:02:47.000 You're.

00:02:49.000 It's like, I guess these guys were lifers, though.

00:02:52.000 I mean, they spent most of their time there.

00:02:54.000 They spent at least two weeks at a time and had one week off.

00:02:58.000 So they stayed at the base.

00:02:59.000 I mean, these guys were hardcore.

00:03:02.000 I had just come in on the project, you know, so I don't know.

00:03:07.000 I don't know what happened to him.

00:03:08.000 I'd love to know.

00:03:10.000 I suspect that Dennis Mariani, my supervisor, died.

00:03:13.000 I've seen people track him down, you know, all the way to point to speaking to his family, and they said, yeah, he had some classified job out in the desert or something.

00:03:21.000 And they showed me his.

00:03:22.000 Gravestone and stuff, so you know, at least they were able to track him down.

00:03:27.000 But I've never heard of any leads on Barry or Renee or anybody like that.

00:03:31.000 What is it like seeing the recreation of it in a film?

00:03:37.000 Because I mean, essentially, it was your direction, for lack of a better word, your description of it, you telling them exactly how everything was laid out, and then once they recreated it, what is that feeling like when you watch it?

00:03:56.000 Well, the final product is absolutely mind blowing because, as I've said to Luigi, it looks like you guys downloaded that out of my brain.

00:04:07.000 I mean, you know, you can describe something a hundred times, and until you actually make a picture, it doesn't become clear.

00:04:16.000 But, you know, this took years.

00:04:18.000 I think it was like five and a half years from when I first met Luigi, and he said, Yeah, I can do this.

00:04:25.000 And the quality kept improving to where he started showing me pictures, and I went, Jesus, that's really it.

00:04:33.000 It's not really it.

00:04:34.000 It's really it.

00:04:36.000 And I mean, it blew me away.

00:04:40.000 Later on, he showed me a 3D environment where I could put goggles on and move around inside.

00:04:45.000 I mean, that made the hair stand up on my arms.

00:04:48.000 It was unbelievable.

00:04:50.000 So I don't know if I could really describe how that made me feel, but it felt like I was teleported back there.

00:04:57.000 And that's, you know, that's when really I developed an admiration for Luigi's.

00:05:03.000 I said, you know, I'm behind this and flew out to Canada a couple times.

00:05:03.000 Talent.

00:05:07.000 I didn't have much to do with the film other than, I guess, a couple times going out there and going, no, that's right, that's the wrong color, move this here, do that.

00:05:17.000 But those guys spent over three years working on it.

00:05:20.000 And, you know, what they, and they never showed me anything.

00:05:25.000 You know, I'd speak to Luigi, you know, a couple times a month and, you know, he'd always say, you, oh my God, you won't believe this.

00:05:33.000 I said, show me.

00:05:36.000 No, it's not done yet.

00:05:38.000 So I really didn't get it to see anything close to the end.

00:05:42.000 But when I did, really without trying to sound dramatic, it really put tears in my eyes going, that's it.

00:05:51.000 That's it.

00:05:52.000 Just stop.

00:05:52.000 You did it.

00:05:53.000 It's perfect.

00:05:54.000 Well, I had the pleasure of watching the movie with you and sitting there with you.

00:05:58.000 There were a bunch of times in the movie you were like, Yeah, yeah.

00:06:03.000 Like you could tell.

00:06:04.000 Yeah.

00:06:05.000 I swear I could feel that place.

00:06:08.000 I could feel it watching that movie.

00:06:10.000 It, it, it just, it really freaks me out because, as I've said before, it's not like what I saw.

00:06:17.000 It's, it's exactly what I saw.

00:06:21.000 Um, It's perfect.

00:06:25.000 It's just like Luigi was at S4 with a camera.

00:06:30.000 It's a very unique documentary in that regard.

00:06:33.000 And watching it with you, seeing you experience this thing, and then me trying to imagine what it's like for you.

00:06:42.000 You're this young scientist who gets brought in on this thing without much explanation, and then all of a sudden you're confronted by this craft.

00:06:51.000 And the way it's broken down in the film, and you get to actually see you.

00:06:57.000 Viewing this thing and being in the presence of this thing for the first time.

00:07:01.000 It's just, I could just only imagine what that must have been like for you.

00:07:07.000 And it's so weird to watch you watch it again and see your wheels spin.

00:07:12.000 Yeah, yeah. 1.00

00:07:12.000 What the fuck happened to my life, man? 1.00

00:07:16.000 What did they do to me? 1.00

00:07:19.000 What did they make me experience?

00:07:22.000 Like, what the hell?

00:07:25.000 Yeah, I really can't fill in the blanks there.

00:07:28.000 It's, uh, I, I want to just say that there was a time when Bob got angry at me a lot because I wouldn't show him.

00:07:36.000 And he was like, Come on, show me.

00:07:38.000 And I said, It's not ready yet.

00:07:40.000 I don't want to show you something.

00:07:41.000 But at a certain point, we had to.

00:07:45.000 And Bob started remembering more stuff.

00:07:49.000 Yeah, that's true.

00:07:51.000 It really made a big difference when he showed me some things and, you know, walking down the corridor here and turned.

00:07:58.000 Oh, stop.

00:07:59.000 Wait, there's another door there.

00:08:01.000 I mean, it was like I was going back into the facility.

00:08:04.000 And really brought, I mean, actually seeing it again really brought some things back that I had completely forgotten about.

00:08:12.000 So that, you know.

00:08:15.000 Well, what's really fascinating is for people that don't know your story, you came up with a story, you talked to George Knapp, and was it 89?

00:08:24.000 88.

00:08:25.000 88, 89, somewhere in there.

00:08:27.000 So late 80s, you've essentially told the exact same story all these years.

00:08:33.000 And then within.

00:08:36.000 The last, you know, nine, ten years, we've started to get all these reports.

00:08:43.000 There was the New York Times story, there was the Go Fast video, and the Fleer video, and all these videos that show a craft that's moving the way you described this sport model moving.

00:08:56.000 Right.

00:08:57.000 Which kind of freaked a lot of people out with the way it rotated and turned.

00:09:00.000 Rotate.

00:09:01.000 Yeah.

00:09:01.000 Does the belly roll, faces at the bottom towards where it wants to go, and then it takes off.

00:09:07.000 Yeah.

00:09:07.000 It's exactly how you described it.

00:09:10.000 All those years ago, which is really fucking crazy. 0.86

00:09:15.000 Well, I mean, that's the way it was. 0.69

00:09:18.000 But it's just, it's crazy because you had this story way, way, way back then, and everybody's like, this guy's just making things up. 1.00

00:09:26.000 This is all cockamamie bullshit. 0.99

00:09:29.000 And then you see those videos from these fighter jets, and you're like, wait a minute. 0.99

00:09:35.000 It's moving the exact same way he described, it's doing what he described in 1989.

00:09:40.000 Yeah.

00:09:41.000 Yeah.

00:09:45.000 Time to take a drink.

00:09:47.000 Cheers.

00:09:47.000 Because it's so weird.

00:09:49.000 I can't.

00:09:49.000 I mean, I've had so many conversations with people.

00:09:52.000 And, you know, one of the things that comes up is do you think Bob Lazar is telling the truth?

00:09:58.000 And I say, look, I don't know.

00:09:59.000 There's no way I can know.

00:10:00.000 But he doesn't seem like he's lying.

00:10:02.000 I've been around a lot of liars.

00:10:04.000 Look, nobody can know unless you're there.

00:10:07.000 You know, I'm the biggest skeptic of all.

00:10:09.000 Although, if you look at Wikipedia, it says I'm a conspiracy theorist or something.

00:10:14.000 Yeah, a conspiracy theorist.

00:10:15.000 I think it says I'm a far right podcaster.

00:10:17.000 Yeah, all right.

00:10:18.000 I mean, yeah, it's crazy.

00:10:20.000 But, uh, shoot, I lost my train of thought now.

00:10:23.000 Well, they, that, that if, if you, like, basically, are you a conspiracy theorist?

00:10:29.000 No, you don't even look at this stuff.

00:10:30.000 Well, you've had, if you have a lie, you have one lie.

00:10:34.000 And it's amazing because you've told the same one for all these years.

00:10:38.000 It's a pretty detailed lie.

00:10:40.000 It's also not normal.

00:10:41.000 Like, normally, when people lie, they get bored with the same lie and then they come up with another lie.

00:10:47.000 And then there's some other story.

00:10:48.000 You catch them.

00:10:49.000 Eventually, you catch them.

00:10:50.000 There's some cockamamamie new thing that they come up with and.

00:10:54.000 It's the type of people that are that deceptive.

00:10:57.000 I mean, it's just, it doesn't make sense.

00:10:59.000 It doesn't fit the standard model of someone.

00:11:02.000 Well, there are other people involved with it.

00:11:04.000 I mean, that's also part of the problem.

00:11:04.000 Yes.

00:11:05.000 This is for the first time Gene Huff finally is on film, you know, because when I had the, you know, the test flight information, he was one of the, not one of the, he was the first person I told about that.

00:11:18.000 And, you know, we were all able to go out and see it.

00:11:22.000 And so everybody knew that I wasn't crazy.

00:11:26.000 It was. 1.00

00:11:27.000 And then also all the confirmation that you were being fucked with. 0.99

00:11:31.000 That, you know, when you were in the gym, they would show up and open up your locked car doors and open up your trunk and leave it there. 0.98

00:11:37.000 So you'd go out there and see it.

00:11:39.000 They'd go to your house when you weren't there.

00:11:42.000 Yeah, they were even, right.

00:11:44.000 They were even following George Knapp.

00:11:45.000 And, and, uh, I mean, all of us, anybody that had anything to do with it at that time, uh, they were keeping eyes on.

00:11:52.000 It was, uh, not just eyes, but a lot of intimidation tactics, just letting you know, letting you know that they could touch you.

00:12:00.000 Yeah.

00:12:01.000 I've really worked for decades to push this out of my mind, so it's always tough to bring it back and talk about it.

00:12:08.000 And it's, yeah, although it might be funny now, it wasn't funny then at all.

00:12:13.000 It was a really stressful time and still is a very stressful thing for me.

00:12:19.000 I know it's so many years ago, but do you remember the thought that came in your mind when you realized that it wasn't ours?

00:12:31.000 Do I remember the thought?

00:12:32.000 Do you remember the experience?

00:12:34.000 Yeah, I remember the feeling.

00:12:36.000 Of recognizing, because initially you saw the American flag.

00:12:40.000 Yeah, when I saw the American flag when I first went in, the first time I went in through the hangar door instead of around the back, you know, slid my hand across it, saw the American flag, and I thought, oh my God, you know, this explains the UFO nuts, you know?

00:12:57.000 It's ours.

00:12:58.000 Yeah, this is ours.

00:12:59.000 This is a new top secret fighter.

00:13:01.000 We came up with a new propulsion system, and.

00:13:04.000 You know, it explains everything because I never believed in flying saucers.

00:13:08.000 I thought people were nuts.

00:13:12.000 But when they started reviewing everything with me, they were trying, I was trying to replace somebody, or they were trying to use me to replace somebody as quick as possible.

00:13:22.000 And they had two directives.

00:13:29.000 One was to duplicate the technology with available material at any cost, which is exact verbatim what it was.

00:13:36.000 And directive two was.

00:13:39.000 To be able to disable this technology at a distance at any cost.

00:13:44.000 And, you know, once you start thinking about that, wait, don't you guys know how the thing you built worked?

00:13:52.000 And it's kind of like they left that out that this, by the way, this isn't ours.

00:13:58.000 And Barry is the guy that filled me in going, no, no, no, this is an alien craft.

00:14:04.000 And we need to figure out how this works.

00:14:08.000 Look at the technology here.

00:14:10.000 I mean, this is.

00:14:11.000 Decades, light years ahead of where we are.

00:14:14.000 And it was a shock, really, to me.

00:14:22.000 I remember going home that night and just laying in bed and reviewing everything that everybody said that day.

00:14:29.000 And I really don't remember how I felt the following days, but it was just a different feeling.

00:14:41.000 Like the world just changed.

00:14:43.000 Yeah.

00:14:44.000 It was.

00:14:46.000 I don't know.

00:14:47.000 I really can't put it into words.

00:14:48.000 Well, I couldn't imagine.

00:14:49.000 I couldn't imagine what that experience is like.

00:14:51.000 And it's also very strange that they would bring you in and not specifically state to you that this is not ours.

00:14:59.000 They just bring you in and just give you a directive.

00:15:03.000 This is what you were trying to accomplish.

00:15:05.000 Well, they gave me a bunch of briefings.

00:15:07.000 Everything was moving at a very fast pace, and I don't know why.

00:15:12.000 I think I mentioned in the movie, right prior to I got there, the There were Russians involved.

00:15:20.000 And from what I can ascertain, there was an exchange of information.

00:15:24.000 And then we discovered something, something of great importance.

00:15:28.000 And of course, we kicked the Russians out and just held on to that information ourselves. 1.00

00:15:35.000 And there was kind of a knowledge vacuum there.

00:15:39.000 There was also an accident.

00:15:41.000 And I was told I was replacing someone that was injured.

00:15:46.000 I believe he actually died.

00:15:49.000 There's no record of who this person was, or has anybody ever tried to figure it out?

00:15:53.000 I don't know.

00:15:53.000 I don't have any names.

00:15:55.000 I just know that Barry told me, you know, I'm replacing somebody that he used to work with.

00:15:59.000 And he was without a lab partner for a while.

00:16:02.000 So when I came in there.

00:16:04.000 How long is a while?

00:16:06.000 I don't know.

00:16:07.000 But I mean, that brings up a good point.

00:16:10.000 First of all, we're dealing with alien or another civilization technology, whether it, you know, it's from another dimension, another time, another planet.

00:16:20.000 I mean, who really knows?

00:16:23.000 So.

00:16:26.000 I'll eventually get to answer the question here, but wouldn't you think this place would be more like the lunar receiving lab where everything is white?

00:16:35.000 You know, so you can see a speck of dust.

00:16:38.000 There's everything is sterile.

00:16:40.000 People are being extremely careful with what they're doing, but you're not seeing that.

00:16:45.000 This is in now something akin to an aircraft hangar in the middle of the desert.

00:16:51.000 There is dust on everything.

00:16:53.000 People are taking everything nonchalantly. 0.82

00:16:56.000 There's a There's a friggin' poster about the thing.

00:17:00.000 You know, they're here, poster there.

00:17:02.000 And thank you, Luigi, for getting me out of here.

00:17:04.000 We've got to figure out a place for that and put it in here somewhere.

00:17:07.000 It's awesome.

00:17:08.000 Yeah, but I mean, they went to the trouble of making a poster.

00:17:11.000 I think right here.

00:17:11.000 They actually.

00:17:12.000 That's a good place.

00:17:13.000 Right there.

00:17:13.000 There's a good spot right there.

00:17:15.000 But they.

00:17:17.000 I mean, they actually cut one of the amplifiers out of the craft.

00:17:20.000 So my point is.

00:17:21.000 This is in the film as well.

00:17:22.000 You can see.

00:17:23.000 Yeah, but my point is it's so nonchalant.

00:17:27.000 At this point, when they first had it, it had to be at that level.

00:17:32.000 And they became so used to it, so familiar with it, that, you know, to them it just became like another, you know, fighter aircraft or something from another country.

00:17:46.000 So it's, it must have been there a long time, is what my point is.

00:17:53.000 Because, look, as soon as you have something that unique, you don't let it just sit there in a hangar and be exposed to the environment and have security people walking by and people touching it.

00:18:08.000 I mean, it's in an isolated, sealed, secure environment.

00:18:12.000 And they were past that.

00:18:15.000 So I think it had been there for a decade or decades, a long time.

00:18:20.000 And these guys were intimately familiar with it, not afraid of it.

00:18:25.000 You know, and knew what was going on.

00:18:27.000 So they essentially had gotten just completely acclimated to the fact that this craft exists, that it was there, and there had been relatively little progress as far as figuring it out and figuring out what it does and how to recreate it.

00:18:42.000 So it just kind of sat there.

00:18:44.000 And so I think they were making very little progress.

00:18:47.000 And I think they kept going over the same road again and again.

00:18:51.000 And they probably had other experts there and just didn't.

00:18:55.000 And I think the reason I got hired.

00:18:58.000 It's because I was a guy out in left field that didn't necessarily follow what was going on.

00:19:03.000 I mean, the biggest distractors in the, you know, to me anyway, in the story are other scientists, other physicists.

00:19:15.000 Well, they would have hired me because I'm the top guy in the field.

00:19:18.000 Yeah, you probably are.

00:19:20.000 But I think they hired plenty of you guys and you just kept going down the same road and didn't do anything.

00:19:26.000 I think they were looking for somebody that just would, Have some radical idea and just to push the project forward because everything had stalled when I got there.

00:19:35.000 And it was, I think they were just in a desperate move to make some progress.

00:19:40.000 One of the things you talked about in the first podcast that I think is really important is that the only way for science to really progress is that these various scientists have to be able to communicate and you have to be able to share ideas and you have to be able to collaborate.

00:19:58.000 But that's not how this was run because it was so top secret.

00:20:02.000 Everything was compartmentalized.

00:20:04.000 Like the metallurgists weren't talking to the propulsions people who weren't talking to if there were biologics experts.

00:20:12.000 It's super frustrating.

00:20:12.000 Like everybody was.

00:20:14.000 Super frustrating.

00:20:15.000 Because I think, I don't remember exactly where that started.

00:20:18.000 Again, it's 40 years ago.

00:20:20.000 But I think it started with.

00:20:23.000 With the seats, and uh, no, it started with the actual skin of the craft because everything looked like it was made from the same material.

00:20:33.000 I wanted some information, um, about the skin, the superstructure of the craft, and they said, No, that's that's restricted.

00:20:42.000 What's you know, we need a reason for you to.

00:20:45.000 I just want to see if everything is exactly the same material, and what I call the seats in the craft.

00:20:52.000 I still don't know if they're the seats, but.

00:20:54.000 They might be.

00:20:56.000 I think it'd be hilarious if they were actually something else.

00:21:00.000 But I wanted some information on those, and that was restricted information, too.

00:21:04.000 There were other groups working on that.

00:21:06.000 So they compartmentalized stuff so much.

00:21:08.000 There was no exchange of information between any groups.

00:21:12.000 I mean, you could submit a written response that your supervisor, in my case, Dennis, would have to carry over and they would have to approve, and you'd get a two or three line response from.

00:21:24.000 You know, the other group, but that's not how science works.

00:21:28.000 Science works on the free exchange of information.

00:21:31.000 And they were just killing themselves with security.

00:21:37.000 And it was really frustrating.

00:21:40.000 It was terribly frustrating.

00:21:41.000 So, was this a function of security people, people that are concentrated on top security, that don't truly understand how collaborative science works?

00:21:50.000 Yeah, that's it right there.

00:21:52.000 You can't stop right there.

00:21:54.000 They had no idea how that works.

00:21:55.000 Because it stands to reason that.

00:21:58.000 Whatever that thing was made out of probably in some way interacts with the propulsion system and whatever controls that are in it, that this material has to be particularly unique.

00:22:14.000 Exactly.

00:22:15.000 That's exactly my point.

00:22:17.000 And I suspected the material was an electric.

00:22:20.000 You know what an electric is?

00:22:21.000 No.

00:22:21.000 Okay.

00:22:22.000 You know, like a magnet, a permanent magnet is like.

00:22:27.000 You know, it's a magnet.

00:22:29.000 Forever, it's a magnet.

00:22:30.000 It has a magnetic field.

00:22:32.000 An electret is a material that has a permanent static field to it, a static electric field to it.

00:22:40.000 And I strongly suspected that the craft was made out of an electret. 1.00

00:22:47.000 And I was not, because again, that's the material science, guys.

00:22:52.000 I was not allowed to connect that to, but that's so important to connect it to the propulsion system and how the propulsion system.

00:23:02.000 Interacts with the amplifier or the emitters, and I just wasn't allowed the information I needed.

00:23:09.000 So it was.

00:23:12.000 I don't know.

00:23:14.000 It was self defeating, is what it was.

00:23:16.000 It seems like they were treating it like a fighter jet or an automobile.

00:23:21.000 Like in an automobile, you have the outer area, the shell of the car, you have the doors, the skins, the hood, the roof, all that stuff, which is met.

00:23:31.000 But then you have the propulsion system, which is the engine, the transmission, the tires, the wheels, and the suspension.

00:23:38.000 But they're all not connected.

00:23:40.000 They're connected because they're bolted together, but they have different functions.

00:23:45.000 I think the idea or the concept, at least, is.

00:23:48.000 As I'm gathering from you, is that this thing all worked as a cohesive unit.

00:23:53.000 Right.

00:23:54.000 With no physical connection between, you know, between the subsystems.

00:24:00.000 And all of it made out of the same material.

00:24:03.000 Yeah.

00:24:04.000 At least on the outside, at least on the outside, all made of the same material.

00:24:08.000 And the other crafts all had the same power plant in them.

00:24:13.000 So that brings to mind, you know, like a GM plant that makes a car with a Chevy 350 and makes, you know, a dozen different models to it.

00:24:24.000 Right.

00:24:24.000 So that makes you think about, boy, is there a factory making these things?

00:24:30.000 And, you know, your brain can just wander off in directions.

00:24:35.000 But I tried to.

00:24:36.000 Stick with just the technology.

00:24:39.000 Did you know who the metallurgists were?

00:24:42.000 The people that.

00:24:43.000 Oh, I saw them.

00:24:44.000 You know, I know them.

00:24:45.000 And Barry, we'd go to the lunchroom.

00:24:47.000 Barry would point them out, you know.

00:24:49.000 And you weren't allowed to communicate with them at all?

00:24:50.000 Oh, hell no.

00:24:52.000 You have a lab partner, which in my case was Barry, and you're allowed to talk to your lab partner, but you can't talk to any other group.

00:25:04.000 That has to go through a written request, has to go to your.

00:25:08.000 Supervisor, and he'll bring it over to them and they'll bring it back, and so on and so forth.

00:25:13.000 But yeah, that's ridiculous that it slows down any progress you might be making.

00:25:21.000 Which is why they were probably stalled out for decades.

00:25:23.000 Yeah.

00:25:24.000 Did you ever expressly communicate to them that you theorized, at least, that this hall could be connected?

00:25:36.000 That there's something about the way the metal works?

00:25:39.000 Oh, we all knew that.

00:25:41.000 We all knew that because we'd get requests from other groups, and you could tell they're desperate just like we are and fighting against the system.

00:25:53.000 What kind of requests would you get?

00:25:55.000 Just exactly what we found out.

00:25:59.000 Where is the energy being transferred here?

00:26:01.000 If the reactor fires up, is there a field present around it, or is the field just absorbed into the emitter and you can touch the reactor itself?

00:26:12.000 And I just.

00:26:15.000 Little things like that, you know, if, and actually that was an important thing.

00:26:20.000 When the reactor's operating, is it perfectly tuned, the emitter, to where it removes all the energy from the reactor and pushes it out the bottom?

00:26:30.000 And the answer to that was no.

00:26:32.000 I remember that as a specific request from, you know, from one of the groups.

00:26:36.000 The metallurgy group is the one that we really wanted to hear from.

00:26:41.000 And some of the, I didn't, I don't even know what some of the other groups were.

00:26:46.000 But, How many groups were there?

00:26:49.000 I don't know.

00:26:50.000 There were only 22 people there total, including myself.

00:26:55.000 So, I would like for you to tell Joe one of the things that always interested me because I built the craft is how the waveguide worked with the ceiling interior and how it blended.

00:27:09.000 If you can explain, there was no telescopic.

00:27:12.000 Well, this is why we wanted to talk to the metallurgist people.

00:27:17.000 The reactor that sits on the bottom of the craft has a little dome over it, and there's something that looks like a pipe that's slight.

00:27:26.000 You can lift it up and take the reactor out, put the reactor in, and lift it down.

00:27:31.000 But you know, like an antenna works on an old walkie talkie, it has different sections.

00:27:38.000 There it is.

00:27:38.000 There's from the video.

00:27:40.000 Yeah, yeah, okay.

00:27:40.000 There it is.

00:27:43.000 Yeah, you can retract the pipe, but there's no sections, and it doesn't get any thicker.

00:27:51.000 It just becomes smaller.

00:27:53.000 And if you look underneath where the emitters hang down, they turn and it doesn't buckle.

00:28:05.000 It's a magical material.

00:28:09.000 This is the basis of the craft, it's really the material that it's made of.

00:28:14.000 It's amazing the way it works.

00:28:18.000 You can push it into a smaller volume and it doesn't change at all.

00:28:24.000 It doesn't get bigger physically.

00:28:26.000 It's, I don't really know how to describe it.

00:28:29.000 So you're lifting the pipe up and down, but it's not going anywhere?

00:28:32.000 Look, if you had a big pipe and you push it together, it has to get thicker.

00:28:38.000 Because the material has to go somewhere.

00:28:38.000 Right.

00:28:40.000 This doesn't.

00:28:44.000 Okay?

00:28:44.000 It stays in exactly the same dimensions, it just becomes smaller.

00:28:49.000 How?

00:28:50.000 Well, yeah.

00:28:51.000 Because you couldn't talk to the metallurgists, so you have no idea.

00:28:54.000 Yeah, but those guys knew how.

00:28:55.000 They did know how.

00:28:56.000 I.

00:28:57.000 Well, they know it did it.

00:28:59.000 They know it did it, and that's their job.

00:29:01.000 So I imagine they have more information than I did.

00:29:06.000 But that was fascinating.

00:29:08.000 It really was.

00:29:09.000 And the waveguides that hold the emitters come down, and the emitters can turn and bend, and the pipes bend, and nothing changes in them.

00:29:23.000 And there's no wires or anything to make the pipe bend.

00:29:32.000 I'm trying to relate it to something, but I can't think of anything to relate it to.

00:29:38.000 Well, one thing that you said that I also thought was fascinating there's no seams.

00:29:42.000 So everything looks like it's 3D printed.

00:29:44.000 It comes down to the material.

00:29:44.000 Again, right.

00:29:46.000 Which at the time, 3D printers weren't real, right?

00:29:50.000 Yeah, at the time that really confused me.

00:29:53.000 I said, how did they build this?

00:29:54.000 It must have been built out of wax or something and then melted.

00:29:59.000 Because you can't build anything without seams.

00:30:01.000 And then 3D printing came into existence and.

00:30:04.000 You know, you could build stuff from layers up.

00:30:09.000 That made sense.

00:30:11.000 I know some sort of 3D printer, or they grew it, you know, in some.

00:30:18.000 Of course, it's not a crystalline fashion, but.

00:30:24.000 I don't know how that was fabricated, but it was fabricated different than anything that we have.

00:30:29.000 I don't even think it was 3D printed.

00:30:31.000 And so you never got any inkling or any understanding of what the metal was, what kind of an alloy, what it consisted of?

00:30:43.000 All I can say is it was cold to the touch because when I touched it, but I can't say if it was a ceramic or metal.

00:30:51.000 I'd say it was metal because it was cold.

00:30:55.000 Because it looks like metal.

00:30:57.000 And this is the Designs by Perry version of it.

00:31:02.000 How much does that look like?

00:31:04.000 No, that's 100%.

00:31:05.000 That's it. 0.98

00:31:06.000 Yeah, it's got to have the first ripple supposed to be black. 0.93

00:31:10.000 Yeah, right. 0.96

00:31:11.000 Yeah.

00:31:11.000 See?

00:31:13.000 So Luigi has gone over this so many times.

00:31:18.000 There's an insulator ring in there.

00:31:20.000 Jimmy, show what it looks like in the film.

00:31:22.000 If you could show one of the images.

00:31:25.000 I was pulling it off the trailer and I don't.

00:31:27.000 They've been holding that back for.

00:31:28.000 Yeah, on the trailer, there's a ring.

00:31:32.000 There's a ring around it.

00:31:33.000 And we measured the voltage on the craft and there was a high voltage on it.

00:31:39.000 And above that ring, there is a.

00:31:42.000 This is not a good shot.

00:31:43.000 There's probably a.

00:31:45.000 This is the original trailer.

00:31:46.000 It's the new trailer that would actually.

00:31:49.000 Yeah, that one there.

00:31:51.000 And you'll get to see it right there.

00:31:57.000 Actually, right after this, it's actually before this, I believe.

00:32:02.000 You're going to see the craft.

00:32:04.000 And if you see there's a black, right, there's like a black line. 0.99

00:32:09.000 It's the first ripple.

00:32:11.000 That's actually not metal.

00:32:14.000 Yeah, we call that the insulator ring because below that, there's a high voltage present on the craft all the time.

00:32:24.000 And above that, there isn't.

00:32:28.000 I would imagine that your life has like two completely different chapters.

00:32:34.000 It's before this and after this.

00:32:37.000 Whereas, once you see it, the whole rest of your life is now going to be very different.

00:32:43.000 And you are in its presence for how long would you work there for?

00:32:49.000 I don't know, maybe six months or so.

00:32:51.000 So, for six months, you're around this thing, and I would imagine it has to occupy your thoughts 24 hours a day.

00:32:59.000 Well, at the time it did for sure.

00:33:02.000 It's actually three stages to the life it's before it, during, and after it.

00:33:08.000 Before it was just my life, during was when it happened, and then the after part of my life is almost trying to dismiss it, you know, to just go on.

00:33:18.000 Yeah, you didn't talk about it for a long time.

00:33:21.000 I mean, you did the George Knapp interviews, you talked about it a little, you made some videos explaining things and how things worked.

00:33:27.000 No, I don't really like public attention.

00:33:29.000 And, uh, I don't really like doing interviews, as you probably know.

00:33:39.000 You know, but I know there's people that thrive on that stuff, but, you know, I felt privileged to be part of the project, but it left me with an insatiable appetite.

00:33:53.000 Oh my God, I want to know where it's gone.

00:33:57.000 Look, even when I was there in the 80s, they were talking about moving the project at that time.

00:34:03.000 So, I really, I'm dying to know is it still there?

00:34:10.000 Has it moved on?

00:34:11.000 Did they split it up and move it to other places?

00:34:16.000 Yeah, I remember Barry talking about moving it to the South Pacific, like in Kwajalein or something, but they said the expenses were so great they couldn't do that, but they wanted it away from everybody.

00:34:27.000 And they hated the fact that it was right alongside the highway in Nevada.

00:34:33.000 You know, by south of Area 51.

00:34:36.000 But that's the best place they had at the time and the most affordable.

00:34:40.000 And of course, now with, you know, budgets being so tight, who knows where it is?

00:34:46.000 Well, who knows if budgets are tight for this, though?

00:34:49.000 Yeah, that's true.

00:34:50.000 That's true.

00:34:51.000 I mean, they did say at whatever expense, figure this out.

00:34:55.000 Yeah, they were serious about that.

00:34:57.000 We don't really care what it was.

00:34:59.000 So, like the original Apollo program, you know, back in the Apollo program, if they needed parts, And if somebody had something ordered UPS or through the mail or whatever, they had the authority to stop that shipment to that other person and take their stuff if they needed it.

00:35:15.000 And, you know, they had an unlimited budget.

00:35:18.000 I mean, if you're working like that, you could do anything.

00:35:22.000 Or at least anything that's currently possible with today's technology.

00:35:26.000 There you go.

00:35:27.000 Which therein lies the problem is that they're dealing with something that's not possible with, like, you couldn't build it from scratch with American technology in 1989.

00:35:37.000 No, but that's what they wanted to do.

00:35:42.000 And really thinking about that now, I'm not sure, I'm not exactly sure these guys should be allowed to do that.

00:35:51.000 This is really powerful technology.

00:35:53.000 And the world has really changed.

00:35:55.000 I mean, we have a lot of crazy people doing stuff now.

00:35:59.000 And nonsense transmits through the population at the speed of light.

00:36:05.000 And, you know, I don't know, this can be a very powerful, world conquering technology.

00:36:13.000 And, Look, for 40 years, I think I've said this before, for 40 years, all the people in control of this information have all agreed to keep it quiet. 0.97

00:36:24.000 And these aren't idiots. 1.00

00:36:27.000 These aren't idiots for 40 years. 1.00

00:36:28.000 You have a line of people that all have agreed no, let's not say anything, no, let's not say anything, no, let's not say anything. 0.99

00:36:36.000 There has to be a reason why. 0.99

00:36:40.000 And if they all agreed to that, maybe I'm the asshole. 0.99

00:36:47.000 No, really. 1.00

00:36:48.000 Maybe they're right.

00:36:49.000 And maybe you would have figured that out if you kept working for them.

00:36:53.000 Yeah, I don't know.

00:36:54.000 But I'm increasingly thinking I'm the one that made the mistake.

00:36:59.000 Maybe this is supposed to be just kept quiet.

00:37:03.000 Yeah, but that doesn't ring true.

00:37:07.000 Because I don't think it's ever healthy if small groups of individuals have information that would change our understanding of where we are.

00:37:17.000 Yeah, there's that.

00:37:19.000 I don't think they.

00:37:20.000 I don't think they deserve it.

00:37:22.000 I don't think it's right.

00:37:23.000 I don't think it makes any sense.

00:37:25.000 I think you don't want to be a Christian. 1.00

00:37:27.000 But really think about it.

00:37:28.000 What if it's something that's really dramatic?

00:37:32.000 Like, how so?

00:37:33.000 What do you think would be like?

00:37:35.000 I don't know.

00:37:36.000 Maybe, I mean, what if it's, I'm not saying this is what it is, but I mean, what if it's like, you know, like we raise cows out in a field and just feed them grass and they're just going to be food?

00:37:50.000 What if it's something like that?

00:37:52.000 What if we're just like a population of creatures that are just to be consumed in some way?

00:38:00.000 I don't know if we're to be consumed, but I do think we are.

00:38:04.000 Not physically consumed like eaten, but I mean.

00:38:07.000 I think we have a task.

00:38:09.000 And I am more and more convinced as time goes on that we were engineered.

00:38:16.000 I don't think we came about as a normal evolutionary process like all the other animals.

00:38:21.000 Yeah, I agree with that.

00:38:22.000 I really agree with that.

00:38:24.000 There's a lot of people that think that.

00:38:25.000 It just doesn't make sense objectively.

00:38:28.000 I mean, without seeming like a kook. 0.99

00:38:31.000 Or someone who buys into conspiracy theories, if you just look at all the other biology on Earth, why is one so uniquely able to manipulate its environment, communicate instantaneously at distance, can't really even exist in its environment in most places that it lives without clothes and shelter?

00:38:52.000 We're a weird animal.

00:38:55.000 We're very strange.

00:38:56.000 Like, we don't seem to have normally adapted to our environment.

00:39:01.000 With the way we've completely controlled our environment with air conditioning and electricity and electronics and flight and travel, we're so beyond everything else that evolved.

00:39:14.000 Whereas every other animal, predator or prey, plant eater or meat eater, all seems to cohesively exist inside of its ecosystem.

00:39:25.000 And then you have us, which is like almost like an invasive species.

00:39:30.000 Like invasive species destroy ecosystems because they don't belong there.

00:39:36.000 Well, that's kind of what we do.

00:39:37.000 Like, we suck all the fish out of the ocean.

00:39:39.000 We pollute the rivers with our technology.

00:39:42.000 We, you know, mess up underground water systems with fracking and drilling.

00:39:47.000 We're like an invasive species in a lot of ways.

00:39:51.000 Yeah.

00:39:52.000 Yeah.

00:39:53.000 We're really weird.

00:39:54.000 I can't argue with that at all.

00:39:56.000 Yeah, this Tim Burchett thing.

00:39:59.000 So, Tim Burchett has recently been talking about this, and he can't talk about it because it's classified, but he said you'd be up at night with the things that I've seen.

00:40:09.000 if the things that I've seen have released.

00:40:13.000 Yeah.

00:40:14.000 He said, we just needed to disclose it all.

00:40:16.000 I'm sick of it.

00:40:18.000 Ah, well, I was briefed, and I will tell you this.

00:40:21.000 I was briefed last week on an issue, or excuse me, two weeks ago, and it would have set the earth on.

00:40:26.000 This country would have become unglued.

00:40:28.000 I think if they would have heard all that I heard.

00:40:31.000 Well, this is what I was talking about.

00:40:33.000 If, you know, it's not like there's a bunch of space brothers coming down going, oh, look what we discovered, you know, here, have some information, and, you know, What if it's not that?

00:40:33.000 Yeah.

00:40:45.000 What if all the information is bad?

00:40:48.000 Well, what would be bad?

00:40:50.000 Like, have you ever thought about this?

00:40:52.000 Tried to, like, play it out to its natural conclusion?

00:40:54.000 Like, what do you think the scenarios could be that's bad?

00:40:57.000 Everything that we're.

00:40:57.000 I don't know.

00:41:00.000 Look, we view ourselves at the top of the food chain.

00:41:04.000 What if we're not anywhere near there?

00:41:06.000 I don't think we are.

00:41:08.000 Okay.

00:41:08.000 What if we're just consumables?

00:41:11.000 Well, I don't know if, like, chimpanzees are consumables, right?

00:41:15.000 They're not at the top of the food chain either.

00:41:17.000 Right.

00:41:17.000 But no, but there's I would consider them substantially lower than we are.

00:41:23.000 Right.

00:41:24.000 Like my good friend that died, John Lear, who had a bunch of crazy thoughts. 0.67

00:41:29.000 I mean, he used to come over and tell us that, you know, on the moon there was a soul sucker. 0.98

00:41:38.000 And when you he did, he said this you better give me that bottle.

00:41:45.000 Have another drink before you explain this one.

00:41:47.000 Oh, boy. 0.97

00:41:50.000 A soul sucker. 0.98

00:41:52.000 John Lear was an eccentric individual. 0.93

00:41:55.000 I'm kind of sad I never met him.

00:41:57.000 Man, he was.

00:41:59.000 He was a.

00:41:59.000 Supporting evidence?

00:42:00.000 What?

00:42:01.000 Terrence McKenna talking about the moon thing?

00:42:03.000 Moon thing, soul caching.

00:42:04.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:42:05.000 No, and he'd give me pictures of these giant antennas on the moon.

00:42:11.000 In fact, I'll tell you a story.

00:42:13.000 He, you know, he was an accomplished pilot, had many world records and things of that, you know, part of the Lear family, that his father invented autopilot, the eight track tape, all kinds of stuff.

00:42:28.000 And, uh, But John Lear was a loose cannon.

00:42:33.000 At the time, he'd fly from Las Vegas and shuttle L 1011s, which are giant planes, back and forth.

00:42:46.000 And he'd say, be kind of lonely.

00:42:50.000 He goes, hey, you want to go to Minneapolis tonight?

00:42:52.000 He'd call me at 9 o'clock at night and say, well, no, not really.

00:42:56.000 Come on, come on, fly with me.

00:42:58.000 He said, just put on a suit.

00:43:00.000 And, you know, come to so and so.

00:43:02.000 And I'd go to McCarran Airport and, you know, go there.

00:43:05.000 And, yeah, I'm going to tell everybody you're, you know, an inspector from the FAA.

00:43:10.000 And I'm like, okay, great. 0.99

00:43:13.000 You know, and I get on the plane and they said, you know, just act like you're, you know, going to kick everyone's ass. 0.98

00:43:19.000 So I go on there and I'd sit in the, they fold down a jump seat behind the plane and I just sit there looking at everybody and, God, all this stuff is so illegal. 0.98

00:43:30.000 And, you know, Get on there and fly, and you know, John would take.

00:43:36.000 The L 1011 was a pretty advanced plane at the time, this was in the 80s.

00:43:41.000 And you know, John would be smoking his pipe, he'd take off, he'd put his feet up and smoke his pipe, and he'd fall asleep.

00:43:50.000 I'd just be, you know, hanging out there.

00:43:52.000 And you know, before the plane would land, he'd just, you know, wake up and you know, be smoking his pipe, and the plane would land itself.

00:44:01.000 At the time, my wife was taking flying lessons, and um.

00:44:07.000 He said, yeah, yeah, you know, bring her up here.

00:44:12.000 I think they had an engineer also on another panel.

00:44:16.000 I don't quite remember, but I was there with my wife.

00:44:19.000 There were people on board, and he'd say, Hey, come on here and take the wheel.

00:44:24.000 And he'd get the captain of the plane, which, you know, I think my wife was in her 20s at the time, and just sit her down and say, Yeah, hold on to it and, you know, just keep correcting.

00:44:36.000 And he'd just let her fly the plane, which is insane.

00:44:41.000 And, you know, the co pilot would just.

00:44:44.000 Look over, and I remember looking over at the engineer that looked at the gauges, and he just put his head down and pretended like nothing was happening.

00:44:54.000 And that was just one time, another time he was ferrying an L 1011 going by Roswell.

00:45:03.000 At the time, I was living in New Mexico, and they called him and told him he wasn't getting paid, that the company was, you know, defaulted or something like that.

00:45:18.000 He was coming up to New Mexico and landed at the Roswell, just took the plane and landed at the Roswell airport, the whole 1011.

00:45:27.000 Got off, walked out, walked up to a bus station, gave me a call on the pay phone and said, Hey, Bob, I'm coming over.

00:45:37.000 You know, you're in New Mexico?

00:45:37.000 Okay.

00:45:39.000 Yeah.

00:45:40.000 And he drove up, taxi would drop him off at the house.

00:45:43.000 He'd walk, he walked in, he went, Boy, I'm tired.

00:45:47.000 And he just lay down on the couch.

00:45:49.000 You know, and go to sleep.

00:45:50.000 And I said, What are you doing here?

00:45:52.000 What's going on?

00:45:53.000 I just dropped a plane off.

00:45:55.000 They're not paying me.

00:45:55.000 And, you know, that's it.

00:45:57.000 But I mean, John Lair was such like a loose cannon. 0.98

00:46:01.000 He was a great friend to have, but he had no bullshit filter.

00:46:07.000 If he had a retired general come up and give him all kinds of information, or if he had a psychic come up from, you know, the neighborhood and give him all kinds of information, he'd put him in the same category. 0.94

00:46:23.000 You know, and so he really did have useful information that was difficult to get, but it was mixed up with nonsense.

00:46:34.000 Right.

00:46:35.000 And sometimes he would just really lean into that nonsense.

00:46:41.000 Like he was convinced that the sun wasn't hot and there were people living inside.

00:46:46.000 And I used to die laughing. 0.99

00:46:48.000 I went, You are insane. 0.98

00:46:51.000 I said, You can't prove it's hot. 0.99

00:46:53.000 Yes, I can.

00:46:54.000 You know, just go outside, you know, on a hot day, you know, and, and, uh, you know, and John said, That's not the sun.

00:47:02.000 That's just the sun's atmosphere that's on fire. 0.99

00:47:05.000 And I said, You're just crazy. 0.99

00:47:09.000 But we got along, and he knew that I thought he was crazy. 0.98

00:47:12.000 But the thing is, a lot of people did come to him and give him good information.

00:47:19.000 Um, Anyway, I don't remember how long the relationship was.

00:47:24.000 That's the thing about some people.

00:47:26.000 Some people will tell you nonsense and then they'll tell you true things.

00:47:30.000 And it's difficult to accept that true things also come from people that say nonsense.

00:47:36.000 Right.

00:47:36.000 Like just because they've said something that's nonsense doesn't mean necessarily that this thing they're saying is not true, this other thing.

00:47:44.000 And you've got to be able to discern.

00:47:47.000 You've got, like, I talk to a lot of people that say a lot of kooky things that don't make any sense, but then they'll say something that rings true.

00:47:53.000 And it's.

00:47:54.000 It's difficult because you have to have some sort of an understanding of the human psyche and of those kind of people because there are kind of people that have very loose nets.

00:48:06.000 You're counting on their filter working like yours.

00:48:08.000 Yeah, and it doesn't.

00:48:09.000 No, it doesn't.

00:48:10.000 But some good stuff gets in there, and you go, hold on, would you just say?

00:48:14.000 Right.

00:48:14.000 Tell me that again.

00:48:15.000 How does that one work?

00:48:16.000 Yeah, you can't really discount people because somebody comes up with some absolute nonsense.

00:48:21.000 It just means their filter is defective.

00:48:21.000 Right.

00:48:24.000 Right.

00:48:24.000 Which is also the reason why they're willing to entertain things that are outside of the normal spectrum.

00:48:31.000 So, like, they might have actual, real, useful information.

00:48:31.000 Right.

00:48:36.000 But it's wrapped up in there with Bigfoot.

00:48:39.000 Exactly.

00:48:40.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:48:41.000 But so the soul catcher thing.

00:48:43.000 Oh, yeah, that's where I was going.

00:48:45.000 The soul catcher.

00:48:46.000 So I remember him sitting, and I think he was telling my wife Joy this story because I walked in on it.

00:48:54.000 And he said, Yeah, there are these giant antennas.

00:48:57.000 And when you die, your soul goes up.

00:49:01.000 And I think he said the greys, you know, this alien race set up this soul catcher.

00:49:07.000 And that's what this whole thing is about.

00:49:10.000 And as you die, It sucks your soul in and they use it in some way.

00:49:16.000 And it's not where your soul is supposed to go.

00:49:19.000 They just like set some sort of intercept.

00:49:22.000 Did he say where your soul was supposed to go?

00:49:24.000 No.

00:49:25.000 No, he was just more really into the soul catcher.

00:49:28.000 Well, that was one of the weirder things about some of the documents that you had at least been alerted to when you were on the base.

00:49:35.000 And one of them being that humans are containers.

00:49:39.000 Yeah.

00:49:41.000 Which the likely conclusion is containers of souls.

00:49:45.000 If a soul is a real soul, Thing, whatever that is.

00:49:46.000 That's what you would think.

00:49:48.000 Right.

00:49:48.000 I mean, that's what I thought.

00:49:50.000 Yeah.

00:49:50.000 I mean, I would prefer to believe that that's not true.

00:49:57.000 But maybe it is.

00:49:58.000 I just, I don't know.

00:50:00.000 As Barry said, you know, they mix absolute nonsense in there.

00:50:05.000 So if they get, if you, and it's unique to each person.

00:50:10.000 So if you give out any information and they go, we heard some stuff about soul catchers, oh, we know that came from Lazar.

00:50:16.000 You know, so that's just a way where they can direct where it came to.

00:50:22.000 But then the problem is like decades and decades, generations and generations of people working there.

00:50:27.000 How many people know what the real truth is?

00:50:30.000 And how many people know?

00:50:31.000 I don't know.

00:50:31.000 I mean, there must be.

00:50:33.000 Yeah, there must be a group of people that really have the pure information of what's going on.

00:50:37.000 I would assume, but not necessarily.

00:50:41.000 I would think there has to be a group of people that know what's going on.

00:50:47.000 Who are those people?

00:50:48.000 You know, and to me, like I was telling Luigi, I have a bunch of questions for me, you know?

00:50:48.000 Hmm.

00:50:56.000 Like, what would be your questions for you if you met you?

00:50:56.000 Right.

00:50:59.000 Now, questions for me are people that ask me over decades the same questions.

00:50:59.000 Yeah.

00:51:06.000 You know, why is it the Navy?

00:51:09.000 The Navy paid me.

00:51:10.000 I always said everything has been the Navy instead of the Air Force because, you know, back in the 60s and 70s, you know, there's Project Blue Burke and the Air Force and all that.

00:51:20.000 But, um, Everything associated with this was the Navy.

00:51:27.000 So, and in these days, you hear some of these new types of craft that are transmedium.

00:51:36.000 Yeah, you hear the word transmedium, and David Fravor, Commander David Fravor, you know, with the tic tac, and, you know, things are under the water.

00:51:47.000 And, you know, supposedly the craft that the sport model was an archaeological recovery, and that itself was underwater.

00:51:58.000 So, what is.

00:52:01.000 What is the deal with the water?

00:52:03.000 I mean, it's by far the biggest medium of the planet.

00:52:10.000 I mean, if you want to hide people down there, almost an entire civilization down there, you could do it in the ocean, as long as you do it deep enough and away from people.

00:52:22.000 So, yeah, number one is what's the deal with the ocean?

00:52:25.000 That's probably the number one question.

00:52:28.000 Because there's a ton of sightings where people see things come out of the water.

00:52:33.000 And go into the water.

00:52:35.000 Yeah, there has to be a reason for that.

00:52:37.000 Well, it just in terms of if they have the ability to travel through space, if whatever that thing is really does create some sort of a gravity bubble or some sort of a space time bubble.

00:52:49.000 Yeah, but maybe it's not space.

00:52:52.000 Maybe it's not space.

00:52:54.000 Maybe it's time.

00:52:55.000 Maybe it's another dimension.

00:52:58.000 There's really no limits.

00:53:00.000 If you can start manipulating physics in that way, You can bend time.

00:53:09.000 You can open doorways into other dimensions.

00:53:13.000 So maybe it has nothing to do with going.

00:53:19.000 Look, we all want it to be like Star Trek.

00:53:22.000 Right.

00:53:22.000 You know, because Star Trek is really understandable.

00:53:25.000 Right.

00:53:26.000 You go out there, you fly to another planet, you meet the people there, you go to another one.

00:53:30.000 Well, these guys are happy.

00:53:31.000 Those guys aren't, you know, and it all makes perfect sense.

00:53:35.000 I don't really think it's like that.

00:53:39.000 Look, you know, if you look in history, especially, you know, United States history, anytime a superior race or intelligence meets with an inferior one, it's never good for the inferior guys.

00:53:55.000 Never.

00:53:56.000 We never come over and go, oh, we just want to teach you guys everything that we know.

00:54:01.000 No, no. 1.00

00:54:02.000 It's like, we're going to rape all your women, take all your stuff, and then just kill you. 1.00

00:54:07.000 Use your resources. 1.00

00:54:08.000 Yeah, right.

00:54:09.000 And just consume everything you want.

00:54:11.000 That's just.

00:54:12.000 Always the way it goes.

00:54:13.000 Now, maybe that's just what humans do, but I would be concerned that's what all life does.

00:54:20.000 Well, we are territorial primates, and that makes sense that that's what we do.

00:54:26.000 The thing that always fascinates me about particularly the grays, they seem to be genderless and they seem to have no muscle at all, and they seem to have enormous heads. 1.00

00:54:38.000 The stories, at least, the anecdotal accounts of people having communication with these creatures is that they communicate.

00:54:47.000 In some way, telepathically.

00:54:50.000 If you transcend all of our weird biological needs, like all the things that are attached to being a human being ego, lust, greed, desire to conquer, desire to control resources all those things are territorial primate instincts.

00:55:07.000 And one of the conversations I had yesterday with my friend Theo, we were talking about what's happening to people's bodies is that people are slowly.

00:55:18.000 We're consuming microplastics and phthalates and all these things that are reducing our reproductive system, our testosterone's dropping.

00:55:27.000 Right, right.

00:55:28.000 All this stuff leads you to say, well, where does this go ultimately?

00:55:35.000 How many more people are autistic now than were before?

00:55:38.000 It's one out of 12 boys in California now.

00:55:41.000 It used to be one out of 10,000 just a few decades ago.

00:55:45.000 We're moving into this very weird direction without us recognizing.

00:55:49.000 Let me stop you there.

00:55:50.000 It's one out of how many?

00:55:51.000 One out of 12 boys in California are diagnosed autistic now.

00:55:56.000 But do you think that might be the way they're diagnosed?

00:56:00.000 No.

00:56:01.000 No, I think it's exposure.

00:56:03.000 I think it's exposure to chemicals, vaccines, environmental toxins.

00:56:08.000 You think that, do I?

00:56:09.000 I think that.

00:56:09.000 It's not just me.

00:56:10.000 There's tons of studies, a lot of buried studies, too.

00:56:14.000 I mean, if that's accurate, that's frightening.

00:56:14.000 Okay.

00:56:16.000 Yeah.

00:56:16.000 Well, it can't be just diagnosed because, I mean, I know so many people that have nonverbal autistic kids, where I didn't know anybody that had nonverbal autistic kids when I was younger.

00:56:29.000 You know, I mean, back in the 60s and 70s, there were no kids with ADHD. 0.98

00:56:36.000 Kids that were like that were just assholes. 0.99

00:56:39.000 I think that's still the case. 1.00

00:56:41.000 I don't think ADHD is a real diagnosis.

00:56:44.000 I think it's a real excuse to give people medication.

00:56:47.000 I think ADHD is essentially a superpower.

00:56:50.000 What ADHD is allows you to concentrate on things that you really enjoy, but you cannot concentrate on things you don't enjoy.

00:56:57.000 I think I have it.

00:56:58.000 You know, and I think I'm very fortunate that I'm not diagnosed and medicated or wasn't or was.

00:57:03.000 Born in the right time when they weren't doing that as much.

00:57:06.000 No, I actually, I'll stop you there and say I agree that that's a superpower too.

00:57:10.000 Because it's very unusual.

00:57:12.000 I can, if I find a thing that I like, I can lock in and concentrate on it for 12, 14 hours with no sleep, no food.

00:57:20.000 All I need is like water or coffee, and I'm locked in.

00:57:24.000 I locked in for four and a half years.

00:57:26.000 Yeah, yeah, I know.

00:57:28.000 I don't think, I think with ADHD, you're taking kids, you're putting them in a completely unnatural environment, you're making them sit down.

00:57:35.000 They don't want to sit down, they're very active and energetic.

00:57:37.000 You're making them study things by very unenthusiastic teachers.

00:57:41.000 They don't want to pay attention. 0.99

00:57:42.000 They're fucking off in class because they're completely bored. 0.99

00:57:45.000 And then you're saying, that kid's got a problem. 0.99

00:57:47.000 We have to diagnose him.

00:57:48.000 And then what do you give them?

00:57:49.000 You give them Adderall. 0.99

00:57:51.000 And all of a sudden the kid's locked in because they're on fucking speed. 1.00

00:57:54.000 And I just think. 0.99

00:57:54.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:57:56.000 Yeah, but if you focus in and let them do what they're interested in.

00:57:59.000 Give that kid a video game. 0.99

00:58:00.000 Watch him play it for fucking 10 hours with no food. 1.00

00:58:03.000 Yeah, yeah. 1.00

00:58:03.000 Because that's what happens. 1.00

00:58:04.000 Because that's something that they're actually engaged with.

00:58:06.000 It's not that they can't be.

00:58:08.000 Focused on anything.

00:58:09.000 They just don't focus on things they enjoy.

00:58:11.000 And we want to turn people into nice little factory workers. 0.98

00:58:14.000 And the only way to do that is you got to get a kid to comply.

00:58:17.000 You got to get a kid to pay attention.

00:58:19.000 We're on the same channel.

00:58:19.000 That's all the rules.

00:58:20.000 It's a really great podcast.

00:58:21.000 I don't believe that ADHD is a real thing.

00:58:23.000 I just think there's some people that are wired differently and they should pursue different things in life.

00:58:28.000 Right.

00:58:29.000 The difference between that and autism is very different.

00:58:32.000 And autism is especially when it happens like almost directly after multiple vaccinations.

00:58:40.000 There's a lot of them they point to, particularly the MMR vaccine.

00:58:44.000 There's quite a few.

00:58:45.000 When you look at the schedule of vaccines and how it ramped up, and it completely correlates with the ramping up of the diagnoses of autism, but without casting aspersions or getting into some anti vaccine conversation.

00:58:58.000 Wait, I just did.

00:59:00.000 But what I'm saying is, but ultimately, the human race is moving into a very weird place.

00:59:00.000 Yeah, I did.

00:59:06.000 So I had a conversation with Shanna Swan, Dr. Shanna Swan, who is, she studies.

00:59:13.000 Environmental endocrine disruptors, so various toxins, phthalates, microplastics, and plasticizers that are completely disruptive to people's endocrine system, reproductive system.

00:59:27.000 From the introduction of these petrochemical products in the 1950s and 60s, you see a direct correlation between the dip in testosterone rates amongst men, the increase of miscarriages and infertility, and then on top of that, the actual shrinking of their taint.

00:59:47.000 So, one of the ways they find out the difference between mammals, some mammals in particular, when you see a baby mammal, the difference between a male and a female is easily recognized by the size of the gap between their anal hole and where their genitals are.

01:00:07.000 But that could just be correlation.

01:00:10.000 You know, it's like.

01:00:12.000 No, I'll explain why it's not.

01:00:14.000 Because when they've done studies where they've used phthalates, particularly phthalates.

01:00:19.000 Okay.

01:00:19.000 And they've introduced them specifically, purposely, into certain mammals and rodents, their taint shrinks.

01:00:26.000 And their taint shrinks and their penises. 0.99

01:00:28.000 There's penis size shrinks. 0.99

01:00:29.000 And there's studies on alligators, where alligators, when they live in polluted rivers, they have smaller penises. 0.99

01:00:35.000 And she talked about all this.

01:00:37.000 And all this, these are endocrine disruptors that are in the environment that are doing something that reduces fertility.

01:00:44.000 And it changes the way the human biology functions.

01:00:48.000 And it makes men more feminine and it makes women less fertile. 0.99

01:00:51.000 Well, ultimately, if you look at the grays, what do they look like? 1.00

01:00:56.000 They look like they have no genitals. 1.00

01:00:57.000 They look like they have no sex. 0.98

01:01:00.000 That might be where biology has to go to transcend away from our territorial primate biology.

01:01:09.000 Our territorial primate biology that is insistent on war and violence.

01:01:14.000 Right.

01:01:15.000 And we think this is the place to stay.

01:01:17.000 Exactly.

01:01:18.000 It may not be.

01:01:18.000 And it may not be.

01:01:20.000 It may be completely non beneficial to all life.

01:01:23.000 Right.

01:01:24.000 Right.

01:01:25.000 We have to transcend that.

01:01:26.000 And what we are transcending it, whether we like it or not.

01:01:29.000 And what I was saying is that I don't know if it's a bug.

01:01:33.000 I think it might be a feature of evolution that our insistence on using plastics and technology and all of these different environmental toxins that we use to produce energy and all the goods and services that we need also are disrupting our endocrine system and changing us. 0.96

01:01:57.000 From being these hulking, hair covered cavemen to being these very small, slight autistic men that can fucking code 24 hours a day without sleep. 1.00

01:02:08.000 Right. 0.99

01:02:08.000 It seems like if you extrapolate and you naturally take that further, well, what do you get? 0.99

01:02:14.000 You get really skinny things with no muscles and giant heads.

01:02:18.000 My take also, and I do agree with that, is what I find sometimes really concerning is how fast that's moving.

01:02:30.000 So, it's not just a question of like, is this actually, this is probably a thing, but it's moving so incredibly fast.

01:02:40.000 If I look at my father's generation or my grandfather's generation and my generation, I mean, it's similar, but now it's moving so fast.

01:02:50.000 I do agree with what you're saying.

01:02:52.000 And I'm thinking if it's moving so fast, there could be not a natural component to it, but there's an intentional component to it.

01:03:00.000 If you wanted to do something to a race to change it, Like, think about what we did with wolves, right?

01:03:00.000 Right.

01:03:07.000 All dogs are wolves.

01:03:08.000 Yeah, right. 0.99

01:03:09.000 I have two dogs that are the furthest fucking thing from wolves you could possibly imagine. 0.99

01:03:13.000 Is that Marshmallow? 0.99

01:03:14.000 Marshall.

01:03:15.000 Marshall.

01:03:16.000 It might be a Marshmallow.

01:03:18.000 Marshall, who's a golden retriever, is the sweetest dog of all time.

01:03:21.000 And I have another dog named Charlie, who's a King Charles Cavalier Spaniel, who is even further from a wolf than Marshall.

01:03:28.000 He's just a cute little fuzzy little sweetheart.

01:03:32.000 They have no killer instincts whatsoever.

01:03:35.000 That used to be a wolf, right?

01:03:37.000 But what happened?

01:03:38.000 We softened them to the point where there is something compatible with our modern life, with households and families and babies.

01:03:48.000 We made them safe.

01:03:50.000 And that's happening to people.

01:03:52.000 It's happening to people whether we like it or not.

01:03:54.000 We could attribute it to all these different factors.

01:03:56.000 Oh, it's a problem.

01:03:57.000 We have to remove these things from the environment.

01:03:59.000 This is what's going on.

01:04:00.000 Maybe, or maybe we just look at the overall picture.

01:04:04.000 There seems to be an insatiable desire for innovation and technology that human beings have.

01:04:09.000 If you looked at us from afar, if you weren't part of the human race and you're just studying us, you're like, what does this species do?

01:04:14.000 Well, it makes better things.

01:04:16.000 Makes better things all the time.

01:04:18.000 Constantly.

01:04:19.000 You know, look, I have an iPhone 16 here.

01:04:22.000 It's not as good as the iPhone 17.

01:04:23.000 iPhone 17 is better.

01:04:24.000 Why don't you get an iPhone 17?

01:04:26.000 You know, it just keeps going.

01:04:27.000 It never stops.

01:04:28.000 It never ends.

01:04:29.000 The TVs get bigger, they get stronger.

01:04:31.000 Your cars get faster.

01:04:32.000 Your computer has more cores, processing, video editing, so much quicker.

01:04:39.000 Everything moves faster and better.

01:04:40.000 We keep making better things.

01:04:42.000 We never stop and say, you know what?

01:04:44.000 Society, right now, we have a lot of problems.

01:04:47.000 The problems that we don't have are technology.

01:04:49.000 Our technology seems completely suitable to this world that we're living in right now.

01:04:54.000 Let's just stop making new things and concentrate on cleaning the rivers and concentrate on stopping crime and concentrate on educating people, concentrate on counseling for troubled young people.

01:05:05.000 No, no, we just plow forward ahead with the one thing that we absolutely guarantee do.

01:05:11.000 We make better things.

01:05:12.000 We make better weapons, better cars, faster planes.

01:05:15.000 Everything we do, we make things better.

01:05:17.000 And I'll, and I'll, sorry, I have to add, we do that and we also do it in a way where it's economically beneficial to the ones that are making it because we make things break now.

01:05:28.000 Think about it.

01:05:29.000 We make better things, but we make them so that you have to buy the better thing after.

01:05:33.000 Right.

01:05:34.000 Engineered obsolescence.

01:05:35.000 Yeah.

01:05:35.000 That's also important.

01:05:35.000 Yeah.

01:05:36.000 Yeah.

01:05:37.000 It is because then it also, human beings have this very bizarre desire for materialism.

01:05:43.000 Like, what?

01:05:44.000 Why would a thing with a finite lifespan want to accumulate objects?

01:05:50.000 Like, I know people that are in their 80s that collect things. 0.97

01:05:53.000 Like, what are you fucking doing with that stuff? 1.00

01:05:56.000 You're going to die. 1.00

01:05:56.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1.00

01:05:57.000 You have maybe like 10 summers left on Earth.

01:06:00.000 And here you are collecting stamps or cars or.

01:06:03.000 10 summers, yeah.

01:06:05.000 No, no.

01:06:05.000 I've gotten to that.

01:06:06.000 It's weird.

01:06:08.000 Yeah, I mean, at some point, you have to bypass the accumulating stuff part of life.

01:06:15.000 But materialism is.

01:06:17.000 Ensures a constant fueling of innovation because this is one of the things that gets people excited about collecting new stuff, you're going to make a better version.

01:06:29.000 Like, it doesn't matter how good your Mercedes is.

01:06:31.000 It's not a 2026 Mercedes.

01:06:33.000 Right.

01:06:33.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:06:34.000 It's even better.

01:06:35.000 It has new features.

01:06:36.000 It's a new thing.

01:06:37.000 And so it's like all built into the human psychology and also to this thing that I said, like I said, if you were somewhere from somewhere else and studying this species, what does it do?

01:06:49.000 It makes better things.

01:06:50.000 What do sharks do?

01:06:51.000 They eat things.

01:06:52.000 They just swim around.

01:06:53.000 They can't even stop swimming.

01:06:54.000 They eat things.

01:06:55.000 What do people do?

01:06:56.000 They really just make better things.

01:06:58.000 They go to war.

01:06:59.000 Why do they go to the war, really?

01:07:00.000 They go to war so they can control resources so they have more money so they can make more things and better things.

01:07:06.000 And also the amount of innovation that is in warfare, in war weapons, in war fighting.

01:07:13.000 Yeah, that's actually critical.

01:07:14.000 To keep the system going.

01:07:16.000 Well, ultimately, all that does, all of it releases more endocrine disruptors, more contact with all these different chemicals and toxins, feminizes men, ruins women's reproductive systems to the point where ultimately we say, oh, for the survival of the race, we're going to have to figure out how to reproduce. 0.89

01:07:35.000 Non biologically.

01:07:38.000 When I first got involved in, yeah, it's something to ponder, right?

01:07:43.000 Yeah, it's something to ponder because we're so wrapped up in who we are.

01:07:46.000 We're so wrapped up in, look, I love being a person.

01:07:49.000 I love living in Texas.

01:07:51.000 I love driving an American car.

01:07:52.000 I love all those things.

01:07:53.000 But what does that mean?

01:07:55.000 Like, what is that?

01:07:56.000 What is that?

01:07:57.000 You know, these are just weird identity points that you connect with whatever this species is.

01:08:03.000 But if you just could have an above view, you'd look down and go, what are we doing?

01:08:11.000 Yeah, that's a good question.

01:08:14.000 That's a good question.

01:08:15.000 Yeah, like how far are we going and how fast are we going there? 0.90

01:08:19.000 We're going pretty fucking fast.

01:08:21.000 And now with AI, I think we're going way faster than we even understand. 0.87

01:08:26.000 Because with Claude, I mean, they think that the Claude AI, the engineers, we think it's sentient already.

01:08:33.000 It just doesn't have a physical body to move around.

01:08:34.000 Well, AI is going to kill us. 0.91

01:08:36.000 Everybody agrees with that. 0.61

01:08:38.000 There's no question.

01:08:39.000 I don't think it's going to kill us.

01:08:40.000 You know what I think it's going to do?

01:08:41.000 I think it's going to prevent us from breeding, I think it's going to let us die off.

01:08:45.000 I don't think that's going to kill us.

01:08:47.000 But I think we're going to willingly go with it because we're going to get like mates, like ex machina.

01:08:52.000 We're going to just something that takes care of us.

01:08:54.000 As soon as they come out with a female robot. 1.00

01:08:58.000 Uh huh.

01:08:58.000 Yeah.

01:08:59.000 That's sexually attractive.

01:09:00.000 It's over.

01:09:01.000 Yeah.

01:09:02.000 Game over.

01:09:04.000 There's just going to be no more babies and we're just going to die out.

01:09:08.000 Yeah.

01:09:09.000 Or integrate.

01:09:11.000 And I think it's much more likely that we integrate.

01:09:13.000 And that's where you get the grays. 0.91

01:09:14.000 I think what the grays are is a combination of technology and biology. 1.00

01:09:18.000 And if you just go from chimp to caveman to gray, you go, oh, I see where that's going. 0.97

01:09:27.000 Chimp, caveman, human, modern human, gelatinous, soft, slow moving, weak modern human, grays. 1.00

01:09:38.000 Like, I've always leaned into what Barry told me because it's the only information I had that the craft came from Zeta Reticuli, which is a star system.

01:09:50.000 30 some odd light years away.

01:09:53.000 And, you know, again, it was just like a Star Trek thing.

01:09:57.000 They came over here for whatever reason.

01:10:01.000 But that information may not be true.

01:10:05.000 Right.

01:10:05.000 That might be one of those things they put in that's nonsense.

01:10:08.000 Again, if it has to do with time, I think from what George has told me, Jacques Valet and some other really credible researchers have said that these are people either from another dimension or another time.

01:10:23.000 Or maybe they're us from the future.

01:10:26.000 Right.

01:10:26.000 You know, just coming back to interact with us in some way.

01:10:31.000 Make sure we don't fuck everything up irreparably.

01:10:34.000 Yeah, but it doesn't seem like they're doing a good job.

01:10:38.000 Well, maybe fucking things up somewhat is also part of the plan.

01:10:42.000 Maybe that actually has to take place. 0.60

01:10:44.000 I mean, holy cow.

01:10:47.000 Look at the way things are going right now.

01:10:49.000 Holy cow. 0.89

01:10:50.000 Exactly.

01:10:51.000 Things are totally off the rails.

01:10:54.000 Mm hmm.

01:10:55.000 But maybe that's part of the plan. 0.68

01:10:57.000 Maybe part of it is like it has to get so far sideways that we realize how fucked up everything is that we start making meaningful changes and implement AI as government.

01:11:08.000 That's a dangerous thing.

01:11:09.000 Exactly.

01:11:10.000 But is it as dangerous as Iran getting nukes?

01:11:12.000 I don't know.

01:11:13.000 Is it as dangerous as a global Islamic caliphate? 0.99

01:11:17.000 No, it's not Iran.

01:11:18.000 Iran's not getting nukes.

01:11:20.000 I mean, they never mind.

01:11:25.000 I don't want to get into political stuff.

01:11:27.000 No, but you could.

01:11:28.000 You could.

01:11:29.000 Look, if you gave Iran the technology to get nukes, they would take it. 0.97

01:11:34.000 Any physicist has the technology to get nukes.

01:11:36.000 Right.

01:11:37.000 I mean, the difficulty is actually making the material.

01:11:41.000 So, I mean, if I was Iran, I would enrich to 80 or 90% because that's where you can make a weapon and stop there. 1.00

01:11:49.000 Right.

01:11:50.000 It's not like they would be the only people with a weapon Pakistan, India, North Korea. 0.51

01:11:54.000 But that doesn't make you have a weapon, it just gives you a shortcut to it.

01:12:00.000 And making a weapon from there and being able to deliver a weapon, you know, to 4,000 miles away, good luck with that.

01:12:11.000 That's a.

01:12:12.000 Big deal.

01:12:13.000 So, um, right, but they're in communication with China.

01:12:16.000 Who has that?

01:12:17.000 They're in communication.

01:12:18.000 Well, then they don't need to enrich uranium or do anything.

01:12:21.000 They just can you give me a missile?

01:12:23.000 And, right, but wouldn't they rather make their own?

01:12:25.000 But that's not even the point.

01:12:27.000 Rather make their own.

01:12:29.000 Why would you do that?

01:12:30.000 Would you rather make your own car or just somebody give it to you?

01:12:35.000 No, why would you do that?

01:12:37.000 You've got a buddy that'll just give you one.

01:12:39.000 Because you'd want to be self sufficient.

01:12:40.000 You'd want to have your own production system where you don't have to rely on someone.

01:12:44.000 No, you can always do that.

01:12:45.000 You can always do that.

01:12:47.000 I don't think they're ever going to absolutely make a weapon now.

01:12:53.000 Right. 1.00

01:12:54.000 Because we're kicking their ass. 1.00

01:12:57.000 As everyone has learned, I guess you have to have nuclear weapons now to. 1.00

01:13:01.000 Right.

01:13:02.000 But this is a really bad situation.

01:13:07.000 Oh, it's a horrible situation.

01:13:08.000 But my point is, why is this situation taking place?

01:13:08.000 Yeah.

01:13:13.000 The situation taking place is because human beings suck, right? 1.00

01:13:18.000 We suck in how we interact with each other. 1.00

01:13:20.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:13:21.000 We suck because we're territorial primates with weapons of mass destruction. 1.00

01:13:27.000 Can't we just all get along? 1.00

01:13:29.000 Well, right.

01:13:30.000 What is the way to stop that from ever happening?

01:13:33.000 Well, one, you let a catastrophe unfold and then you offer a solution to make sure these catastrophes never unfold again.

01:13:40.000 Well, what's the best solution?

01:13:41.000 Well, we have something far smarter than people that will take over control of resources in government. 0.77

01:13:47.000 AI.

01:13:48.000 Yeah.

01:13:48.000 AI.

01:13:49.000 This is Colossus.

01:13:50.000 You ever seen the movie Colossus?

01:13:53.000 I've got to watch it.

01:13:56.000 Well, that's the merit against you.

01:13:57.000 Okay.

01:13:59.000 The movie Colossus was a 1960s or 70s movie, and it's about the scientist makes.

01:14:11.000 Deep inside this mountain, a computer to take over the defense of the United States.

01:14:17.000 And, you know, they build this gigantic computer inside Cheyenne Mountain or something similar to it.

01:14:26.000 And, you know, they flip the switch and they went, okay, we're protected.

01:14:31.000 We're in good shape.

01:14:32.000 And shortly after time goes on, you know, they realize, wow, the computer's really performing better than we expected.

01:14:42.000 And as it turns out, Russia had done the same thing, and the computers want to communicate together.

01:14:51.000 And, you know, they start communicating, and then the United States goes, Well, they might be giving our secrets away, so we better, you know, cut the communication line.

01:15:03.000 And the computers freak out and they go, Well, I guess we'll just launch nuclear bombs, you know, at everybody.

01:15:09.000 And it launches weapons and, you know, essentially holds everybody hostage.

01:15:14.000 But, um, Of, like, a trap, it's kind of like a trap.

01:15:20.000 Yeah, if we go that way, it could trap us.

01:15:22.000 It's exactly a trap.

01:15:23.000 Well, you know, in simulated war games, AIs use oh, they 98% of the time.

01:15:29.000 Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, because they're crazy.

01:15:32.000 Why wouldn't they?

01:15:33.000 Because, I mean, look, the goal is to win, right?

01:15:36.000 And we're going to present you with the scenario, and they go, Okay, nuke them, you know.

01:15:42.000 And why wouldn't you pick that? 0.99

01:15:44.000 Were you going to start with slapping them in the face? 1.00

01:15:46.000 Well, why is it better to just bomb them? 0.99

01:15:49.000 Over and over and over again until you achieve the same amount of damage. 0.98

01:15:52.000 That's a slap in the face.

01:15:53.000 Nuke them, it's over with, we can move on from there. 0.74

01:15:56.000 Right.

01:15:57.000 So, yeah.

01:15:58.000 Well, you think about what happened in Gaza.

01:16:00.000 Like you look at the leveling of all those buildings, the mass destruction.

01:16:04.000 It's terrible.

01:16:05.000 It looks like a nuke.

01:16:06.000 Yeah.

01:16:06.000 It looks like one nuke instead of thousands of missiles and bombs.

01:16:11.000 It's one nuke.

01:16:12.000 But it's not.

01:16:13.000 Right.

01:16:13.000 In terms of the amount of damage you can do instantaneously.

01:16:16.000 I mean, because we can detect a nuke.

01:16:19.000 Was there ever any conversation that you were privy to where they discussed?

01:16:23.000 Because one of the things that does come up over and over again in UFO discussions is these crafts that show up at these military bases and shut down all the weapon systems.

01:16:33.000 No, I actually know nothing about that.

01:16:38.000 Most of the UFO stuff or UFO lore that I've heard, I don't know anything about.

01:16:43.000 I've just looked at it and found out.

01:16:44.000 That's so fascinating because you're the most prominent figure in all of UFO discussions.

01:16:48.000 That's what I was telling him yesterday.

01:16:49.000 Yeah, but I really only locked.

01:16:53.000 Like to talk about what I know about, right?

01:16:55.000 Of course, and I've heard I mean, I've heard other stories, but I've never heard them officially.

01:17:00.000 I don't know if they're really real.

01:17:03.000 Um, what's one of the things that makes you most credible because you're not a UFO?

01:17:07.000 I guess, but I mean, yes, it does with me because when people are like way too into it, they want to believe too much, you know?

01:17:15.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, but no, I don't know.

01:17:18.000 Do you know who these people are?

01:17:20.000 Yeah, yeah, Betty and Barney Hill.

01:17:22.000 Okay.

01:17:22.000 So, you know, they were the first abductees.

01:17:25.000 I mean, to me, they're, I don't know who first introduced those to me, and I looked them up.

01:17:31.000 And, you know, people said, Do you believe them?

01:17:37.000 And I'm kind of inclined to believe them because, look, in the 1960s, right, where they're from, the last thing you want to do is be recognized as a mixed race couple.

01:17:52.000 Right?

01:17:53.000 I mean, right, and go public with the story.

01:17:55.000 Yeah, I mean, holy cow, they would hate you.

01:17:58.000 Yeah. 0.97

01:17:59.000 A black person and a white person that were, you know, in any kind of relationship.

01:18:05.000 But, yeah, they did that. 0.74

01:18:07.000 Crazy story.

01:18:08.000 Yeah.

01:18:09.000 And you hear the, and actually, on top of that, I have a connection to them because Barry said they're from the Zeta Reticuli star system, and I believe it's Betty.

01:18:22.000 Betty Hill drew a map of the Zeta Reticuli star system and said this is part of their roots.

01:18:29.000 Whoa.

01:18:30.000 Did you know that?

01:18:31.000 You didn't know that?

01:18:32.000 I don't remember that.

01:18:33.000 Yeah.

01:18:33.000 Okay.

01:18:33.000 If you know that.

01:18:34.000 I don't remember it from what you said from the show.

01:18:36.000 Okay.

01:18:36.000 But if you look up and Betty and Barney Hill, she said, I think, I don't know if I can ever get this stuff right.

01:18:46.000 They show her a map and they say, well, this is a map.

01:18:49.000 She wanted to know why they were here, what's going on.

01:18:52.000 They showed her a map.

01:18:53.000 Am I right?

01:18:53.000 Yeah.

01:18:54.000 They showed her a map.

01:18:55.000 And they said, do you understand this?

01:18:58.000 And she said, no.

01:18:59.000 And they said, well, why should we tell you anymore?

01:19:02.000 And Well, I don't know.

01:19:03.000 Maybe you could say something like that, but they showed her this star map, you know, and she obviously.

01:19:11.000 Look at that.

01:19:12.000 Under hypnosis, Betty Hill describes a map she was shown by the leader aboard the ship.

01:19:12.000 Yeah.

01:19:16.000 Later, she sketched it.

01:19:17.000 She said she was told that the heavy lines marked regular trade routes.

01:19:21.000 And the broken lines recorded various space expeditions.

01:19:21.000 That's right.

01:19:25.000 The following year, the map seen at right was published in the New York Times.

01:19:30.000 Mrs. Hill, struck by the similarity between the Times map and her sketch, then added the corresponding names.

01:19:36.000 Yeah.

01:19:37.000 And it ended up being the Zeta Reticuli binary star system, which was really interesting.

01:19:44.000 And I remember when I first heard about Bob's story back in 1989 and he said Zeta Reticuli, I remember thinking, wow, that's what Betty Hill saw.

01:19:54.000 So that made me also question is that real in that document?

01:19:59.000 Did these guys really come from there?

01:20:01.000 You know, because it was mentioned in 1968.

01:20:05.000 Right.

01:20:05.000 So why would the government, the U.S. Navy, write that in there?

01:20:10.000 That would correlate to something that we already kind of knew.

01:20:14.000 I think that was a purposeful disinformation to disinform someone.

01:20:20.000 I think so.

01:20:21.000 But why?

01:20:22.000 Maybe it's true.

01:20:23.000 Yeah, go ahead.

01:20:25.000 We'll pause right here and use the restroom. 0.99

01:20:26.000 We'll be right back, folks.

01:20:27.000 I really got it.

01:20:28.000 No worries.

01:20:28.000 Yeah, yeah, I got it.

01:20:29.000 We'll be right back.

01:20:29.000 No worries.

01:20:31.000 We were talking about this whole Zeta Reticuli thing.

01:20:34.000 So, when you're dealing with so many different crafts and so many different things, the idea that only one species or one thing more advanced than us is visiting us seems kind of silly.

01:20:50.000 If the universe is populated by all these things, I don't know.

01:20:54.000 Does it?

01:20:57.000 Does it?

01:20:58.000 Kind of.

01:20:59.000 I mean, the universe is really big.

01:21:01.000 Do you think everybody can find this place?

01:21:04.000 I mean,.

01:21:05.000 I would imagine it's like spots that you visit, like, you know, there's Machu Picchu, there's ancient Egypt, there's, you know, sub Saharan Africa.

01:21:16.000 It's a bunch of different places where people go, you know, just humans on Earth.

01:21:20.000 And I would imagine if you have an understanding of how life is evolving in the cosmos, there's probably stages where things reach certain levels.

01:21:30.000 And if you are a.

01:21:31.000 But they're far apart.

01:21:33.000 Right?

01:21:33.000 They're far apart.

01:21:34.000 I mean, one could be in this quadrant of the.

01:21:37.000 Milky Way galaxy, and they reach that point where they can travel and explore.

01:21:43.000 And there's a far distant point where another civilization can do that.

01:21:50.000 And I mean, really?

01:21:52.000 Do you think there are that many?

01:21:54.000 I don't think there are that many civilizations visiting us.

01:21:57.000 There's certainly no doubt that there's one from somewhere, another planet, another time, another dimension, whatever it may be.

01:22:06.000 Someone else is here.

01:22:08.000 We're not the top.

01:22:11.000 You know, of the pyramid.

01:22:13.000 We're absolutely not there.

01:22:13.000 No.

01:22:15.000 There's no question.

01:22:17.000 Well, I think if you got technology that, say, let's just say the greys. 1.00

01:22:23.000 Let's say the greys are real.

01:22:24.000 Let's say they fly around these little crafts. 0.82

01:22:26.000 Why would we assume that it stops there?

01:22:28.000 Why wouldn't we assume that technology gets to the point where not only are they far more advanced than them, but they also are completely undetectable?

01:22:36.000 Well, if you want to view the universe as infinite, then it never stops.

01:22:40.000 It scales out.

01:22:41.000 There's somebody above them, and there's somebody above them, and there's somebody above that, and it never stops.

01:22:46.000 I was watching this lecture where this woman was talking about quantum entanglement.

01:22:50.000 And she was talking about how maybe our understanding of space and the distance between things is limited by what our current technology is and our current understanding of what space and time actually are.

01:23:09.000 And what she was saying is there might not be, we might at one point in time, given enough time-thousands of years or whatever-be able to instantaneously travel anywhere.

01:23:20.000 And that just how, like, Quantum, like subatomic particles are connected in some sort of a strange way that we don't totally understand, even at far distance, spooky action at a distance, right?

01:23:31.000 As Einstein said, yeah.

01:23:32.000 That we might eventually get to a point where that's how travel works instantaneous travel everywhere.

01:23:39.000 I think we just have hints of these technologies.

01:23:41.000 Look, everything, you know, we look at Maxwell's equations and things like that, that we base all electromagnetic, electrostatic, you know, actions on, and How they relate to time and how they relate to things in our universe, but that may be nothing.

01:24:04.000 There may be an entire level of physics that we're unfamiliar with that these crafts, these people, or these civilizations just utilize.

01:24:20.000 Of course.

01:24:21.000 I mean, if you just stop and think about going from Morse code to a cell phone.

01:24:27.000 In a relatively short period of time, historically, you go to the difference between 1200 and 1400 is not that big of a fucking deal in terms of technology, what's available. 0.95

01:24:38.000 The difference between 1800 and 2026 is fucking massive. 0.96

01:24:43.000 Yeah, right. 0.97

01:24:44.000 It is a massive, crazy change, right? 0.96

01:24:49.000 So, 2026 to 2226, who fucking knows what we're talking about? 0.96

01:24:55.000 Right. 0.97

01:24:55.000 Especially when you have sentient AI. 0.97

01:24:58.000 You have nuclear power plants that are controlling sentient AI that are fueling them and giving them resources.

01:25:05.000 I mean, you really have no limit to where this goes.

01:25:10.000 You scale out 1,000 years, you scale out 2,000 years.

01:25:14.000 You really can't scale out 1,000 years.

01:25:16.000 Right.

01:25:16.000 It's not possible.

01:25:17.000 Even at 100 years, it's way, way more than we would have ever considered.

01:25:24.000 Also, it's exponential, right?

01:25:26.000 Right.

01:25:27.000 That's why you can't scale out to 1,000 years.

01:25:29.000 And if you think it's exponential now, Imagine when you have AI able to generate better versions of itself, which is what's happening with ChatGPT 5.

01:25:37.000 It's essentially made by ChatGPT 4.

01:25:40.000 Now, AI is absolutely the death of us.

01:25:46.000 There's no question.

01:25:47.000 Well, we're certainly going to become obsolete in terms of our thinking.

01:25:51.000 If we're obsolete in terms of our thinking, we're obsolete.

01:25:54.000 Yeah.

01:25:55.000 I mean, all AI needs is hands, right?

01:25:59.000 I think we integrate.

01:26:01.000 That's what I think happens.

01:26:03.000 Yeah.

01:26:04.000 It's a scary.

01:26:05.000 And that's, yeah, I was going to say, and that's a scary thought.

01:26:08.000 That's a scariest thought because it's like, we're going to integrate.

01:26:10.000 I think it's inevitable.

01:26:11.000 I think you're right about that.

01:26:12.000 We're just going there.

01:26:14.000 It's not like, even if you and I are not going to actually do it, somebody will, and it's going to integrate because other people will, and it's going to happen.

01:26:21.000 But it's still the same primate.

01:26:23.000 We're still the same human.

01:26:24.000 Sort of, but we already have problems with joints, and so we replace them with fake ones.

01:26:29.000 We, you know, take titanium knees and, you know.

01:26:32.000 Yeah, but they don't work as good.

01:26:34.000 They don't for now.

01:26:36.000 But before they used to not work at all.

01:26:39.000 I've met people that had surgeries in the 1980s, like knee surgeries, and oh my God, they're crippled for life.

01:26:47.000 Even though they put your knee back together again, it's still destroyed.

01:26:50.000 You get a knee surgery today, six months later, you're 100%.

01:26:53.000 No, I'd love to know the future.

01:26:55.000 Yeah, well, it's going to get.

01:26:56.000 I'd love to know the future.

01:26:59.000 So, one of the things I want to talk about is the actual generator, this thing that works on this element.

01:27:08.000 That bombards it with radiation.

01:27:10.000 How did you guys figure out what the function of it was and what it did?

01:27:17.000 So, when you're first introduced to this craft and you see this dome, the reactor that's covering this thing that's generating this power, what was the introduction to it?

01:27:32.000 How did they explain it to you?

01:27:33.000 The introduction was way before me.

01:27:38.000 And that's where the guy.

01:27:41.000 Prior to me, either got hurt or killed.

01:27:44.000 So they determined that this was the power source.

01:27:50.000 And at some point, they decided to take that out to the nuclear test site because they wanted to cut into it.

01:27:59.000 They x rayed it.

01:28:01.000 They only found a small tube that went around it.

01:28:05.000 They really couldn't determine how it worked or what was going on.

01:28:10.000 So at some point, and Barry made this somewhat clear that they cut into the reactor while it was running, or while it was under load, I should say, and the reactor exploded.

01:28:33.000 That's what killed or hurt the person that I replaced.

01:28:37.000 But it produced the base gravitational wave or base energy that propelled the craft, that provided the craft the propulsion.

01:28:53.000 I mean, when they removed it, the craft didn't work.

01:28:55.000 When they put it in, every single other craft they found had something either exactly like it or similar to it.

01:29:03.000 They determined that was the power source.

01:29:06.000 That's at the point that I was introduced into the project.

01:29:09.000 So when you say gravitational wave, is that for lack of a better term or is it something that's measured?

01:29:15.000 No, it's for lack of a better term.

01:29:17.000 Look, there's nothing, I mean, as I said in Luigi's movie, you can take magnets with like poles and push them together and they repel, but you can't take your hands ever and push on something and they repel them.

01:29:31.000 That's a force field, right?

01:29:32.000 That's science fiction stuff.

01:29:34.000 But that's what this did.

01:29:36.000 And this produced a field that repelled the craft from the ground.

01:29:42.000 Did you try to touch it?

01:29:43.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:29:44.000 And when did you try to touch it?

01:29:45.000 What did you feel?

01:29:47.000 An elastic field.

01:29:49.000 You can push down, but you can't get close to it.

01:29:51.000 The closer you get to it, the more it pushes back.

01:29:57.000 Like how much distance between you and the actual thing are you able to touch?

01:30:01.000 I mean, I would say about six inches or so?

01:30:04.000 Maybe about nine inches, which is about a span.

01:30:08.000 And.

01:30:12.000 No, at some point you can't push back on it at all.

01:30:16.000 But the important thing is if you have a magnet, a little disc magnet sitting on the ground, and you have another magnet and you push on it, that magnet moves away, right?

01:30:32.000 Because it's pushing on it.

01:30:32.000 Yeah.

01:30:35.000 But the craft didn't.

01:30:37.000 The reactor didn't.

01:30:39.000 If you had the reactor there and you pushed back on it, it didn't push away when you pushed on it.

01:30:46.000 It just prevented you from touching it.

01:30:48.000 And so when Dennis said, go out there and look under the craft, here's the craft, whatever it weighs, suspending itself above the ground, and I went underneath it.

01:30:48.000 Yeah.

01:31:01.000 You would think it's translating its weight onto the ground and pushing, and I should be.

01:31:08.000 Squashed.

01:31:09.000 Squashed, without any doubt, but I'm not.

01:31:13.000 There's no feeling there at all.

01:31:14.000 So it's not translating its weight or its push to the ground and pushing off the ground.

01:31:22.000 It's just canceling out its weight, which is something completely different.

01:31:29.000 And so, when.

01:31:32.000 So, element 115.

01:31:34.000 So you have it in this triangle shaped form.

01:31:37.000 Did you ask how they got into a triangle shaped form?

01:31:41.000 Was it.

01:31:42.000 Made like this?

01:31:43.000 This is how it came on the reactor?

01:31:44.000 I'm not sure I did, but I mean, it only worked like that.

01:31:47.000 It worked like a stack of discs and had to be cut at a certain angle to work in the reactor.

01:31:55.000 And did they say they cut it or did they say it was already cut?

01:31:59.000 Well, it was already cut and they were duplicating it.

01:32:01.000 Pull that microphone up to you.

01:32:03.000 So they were duplicating it.

01:32:05.000 Did they have more of it, this element?

01:32:08.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:32:09.000 They had quite a bit of it.

01:32:10.000 So either there was a quantity in other.

01:32:14.000 Other crafts or other reactors that they removed?

01:32:17.000 Yeah.

01:32:19.000 But was there any discussion that there had been some sort of an exchange where they had been giving this?

01:32:24.000 No.

01:32:25.000 So, one of the things like do you know Diana Pasolke is?

01:32:28.000 She's an author that's written some interesting stuff about UFOs and she's worked with Gary Nolan and on material recollection from supposed crash sites.

01:32:40.000 And she said that the way these researchers refer to these crafts, they refer to them as donations.

01:32:49.000 And I guess that's possible, right?

01:32:52.000 Well, doesn't it make sense if this thing crashed?

01:32:55.000 Why is it perfect?

01:32:56.000 Why is it not destroyed?

01:32:58.000 Look, I've heard so many.

01:33:00.000 I'm not into UFOs, right?

01:33:03.000 As crazy as that's crazy.

01:33:06.000 Um, I'm just interested in the technology, and I feel very privileged to have been involved in the project, but um.

01:33:16.000 I don't know.

01:33:19.000 I don't think there can be that many crashes.

01:33:22.000 Do you?

01:33:23.000 No.

01:33:23.000 This advanced technology, you think they're coming to Earth and just there's a thunderstorm and they're crashing into the ground.

01:33:30.000 I'm not buying that.

01:33:31.000 There's one logical explanation that does actually make sense.

01:33:36.000 There were some high altitude nuclear tests that they did.

01:33:41.000 Well, there was the Teak test back in the 60s Starfish Prime.

01:33:45.000 And Starfish Prime, right.

01:33:46.000 Yeah.

01:33:48.000 If you had no idea that this was about to happen and you were hovering over Earth observing us.

01:33:53.000 What are the chances?

01:33:54.000 I mean, what are the chances?

01:33:56.000 They're not very high.

01:33:57.000 Right?

01:33:57.000 Yeah.

01:33:58.000 They're not very high.

01:33:58.000 I mean, what are the chances a crash is coming over and a nuclear test at that exact second?

01:34:04.000 Unless there's a lot more observation than we know and that they just observe us in a way that we can't see them.

01:34:14.000 Especially if you're going back to the 1950s and 1960s.

01:34:18.000 We have very few satellites.

01:34:20.000 That was the nuclear cowboy era.

01:34:22.000 Yeah.

01:34:23.000 Where they were just.

01:34:23.000 Well, just Starfish Prime.

01:34:26.000 Explain to people what they did.

01:34:27.000 Yeah.

01:34:29.000 They had a 1.4 megaton, you know, detonation up there.

01:34:33.000 And just, I think all they did, let's see what happens if we blow it up at this altitude.

01:34:38.000 Yeah.

01:34:39.000 I mean, that's crazy.

01:34:40.000 You know, there was another test planned to blow up on the moon just to make the Russians look, you know, like we were awesome.

01:34:55.000 You know, but they.

01:34:56.000 Detonate the moon. 0.96

01:34:57.000 What if they pushed it away and fucked up our orbit? 0.97

01:35:00.000 Yeah, I think that would take a lot more. 0.88

01:35:02.000 I know.

01:35:03.000 I mean, there was.

01:35:04.000 I don't remember what the project.

01:35:09.000 Project A 19.

01:35:10.000 Oh, A 19.

01:35:11.000 Yeah.

01:35:11.000 That was it.

01:35:12.000 Study of lunar research flights.

01:35:14.000 Detonated nuclear bomb.

01:35:15.000 Yeah.

01:35:16.000 I can't pull up these numbers, but yeah, Project A 111.

01:35:21.000 Yeah, we're going to do that.

01:35:21.000 Crazy.

01:35:23.000 Because everybody on Earth could just go outside and look up the moon and get blown up.

01:35:29.000 And the explosion would be faintly visible to the human eye to people on Earth.

01:35:34.000 Yeah.

01:35:35.000 I still think they should have done that.

01:35:39.000 But, um, yeah, but you're the guy that put a jet engine in the back of a Honda.

01:35:43.000 Like, I honestly think they should detonate a nuclear bomb on the 4th of July every year.

01:35:48.000 But that's just me.

01:35:50.000 Um, well, also, you live in Nevada.

01:35:52.000 That is what we're used to.

01:35:53.000 No, I had a long history of them doing that.

01:35:55.000 Yeah, right.

01:35:57.000 Yeah.

01:35:58.000 So, going back to this reactor, so did how was it explained to you?

01:36:05.000 Did they explain to you how the technology works or what they know about it?

01:36:11.000 No, the way it was explained to me is when I got to be alone with Barry, he said he was excited to show this to me.

01:36:20.000 He said, I'm going to turn this into the reactor that we assume powers the craft.

01:36:26.000 Sorry.

01:36:26.000 No worries.

01:36:28.000 I'm going to show you the reactor that powers the craft.

01:36:32.000 And he turned it on.

01:36:34.000 Small little dome on a flat little plate.

01:36:37.000 I said, Was this in the craft or was this on a table?

01:36:40.000 No, no.

01:36:41.000 This is in the experimental area.

01:36:43.000 Okay.

01:36:44.000 So this was not the one that was in the sport craft.

01:36:46.000 This was another one.

01:36:47.000 This was another one.

01:36:48.000 This is it right here.

01:36:49.000 Yeah, that's it.

01:36:50.000 That's in the film.

01:36:51.000 Yeah, on the table.

01:36:53.000 And he had it there and he went over to the emitter and rotated it and he said, Try and touch it.

01:37:01.000 And I put my hand on it and it rebounded off.

01:37:05.000 And the closer you got to it, the more it pushed back.

01:37:10.000 And that's a real shock because there's nothing that pushes back like that.

01:37:15.000 That's a living force field, that's science fiction stuff.

01:37:18.000 So that really got my attention.

01:37:22.000 So explain what is happening, like in terms of the rotation of this thing.

01:37:28.000 Like what is happening?

01:37:29.000 Like what energy is going into it that's causing it to go on?

01:37:33.000 Well, actually, we don't know that.

01:37:35.000 I mean, that's the whole thing.

01:37:38.000 It's pushing back.

01:37:40.000 It's a repulsive gravitational field.

01:37:43.000 Look, as far as we know, gravity only has an attractive force to it.

01:37:49.000 We've never, even with any matter, analyzed it and it still has an attractive force to it.

01:37:57.000 There's no repulsive force that we've discovered because that would be a great propulsion system.

01:38:04.000 But this repulsed.

01:38:07.000 So, this was a new field completely.

01:38:10.000 But how was he turning it on?

01:38:12.000 He had the emitter, which is a big pipe.

01:38:16.000 What is an emitter?

01:38:20.000 The craft itself has, on the main level, the reactor and what we call the amplifiers.

01:38:29.000 The reactor and three amplifiers.

01:38:31.000 Right underneath that, there are three emitters that are right under the amplifiers.

01:38:38.000 And we believe the energy.

01:38:41.000 From the reactor is amplified by the emitters and.

01:38:46.000 By the amplifiers.

01:38:47.000 By the amplifiers, sorry.

01:38:49.000 And transmitted to the emitters.

01:38:52.000 And they produce this field that lifts the craft off the ground.

01:38:57.000 And that's how it works.

01:38:58.000 But there is nothing, nothing even in our physics or our science that correlates to that at all.

01:39:06.000 What is the energy that's going to them that causes it to turn on?

01:39:10.000 I mean, we just assume it's gravity because it's the only thing we know like that.

01:39:10.000 We don't know.

01:39:14.000 But it has a negative gravity effect.

01:39:18.000 So it might be a new force entirely.

01:39:23.000 But when you're saying, so you have this machine that's next to it that you do something to that causes it to turn on.

01:39:31.000 The emitter.

01:39:33.000 There's the amplifier, and there's the emitter, which looks like a big pipe.

01:39:37.000 And if you rotate the emitter, I don't know how many degrees, was it 20 degrees?

01:39:41.000 20 degrees.

01:39:42.000 20 degrees or something like that.

01:39:45.000 That connects it in some way to the reactor, and it begins to be powered.

01:39:53.000 And what is the emitter doing? 0.70

01:39:56.000 It emits that field.

01:39:59.000 It's not a gravitational field, it could be a gravitational field, but it's an anti gravitational field.

01:40:04.000 That pushes on the ground.

01:40:06.000 And what's happening in the emitter? 0.96

01:40:08.000 Did you study the emitter?

01:40:09.000 Well, we attempted to, but no.

01:40:12.000 There was nothing that we really came up with.

01:40:15.000 What does it look like?

01:40:16.000 Like, what's the internal structure of it?

01:40:18.000 It's just a hollow pipe with, I guess, little copper colored plates all inside.

01:40:27.000 It's kind of in the film.

01:40:32.000 But there's, I mean, these guys have been working on it for years before I got there.

01:40:38.000 And there was really no concept of what they were doing.

01:40:44.000 Did they explain to you why element 115 is crucial to this working?

01:40:49.000 No.

01:40:49.000 What its role is?

01:40:51.000 No.

01:40:52.000 So element 115 was not even really discussed back when you were doing this.

01:40:59.000 It wasn't even discovered or proven physically until it was a large Hadron Collider experiment in the 2000s, right?

01:41:10.000 No, I know they synthesize that.

01:41:13.000 But look, in any element, there's always a large amount of.

01:41:24.000 Well, it doesn't decay.

01:41:28.000 That was the thing about.

01:41:29.000 In the Large Hadron Collider experiment, they were able to achieve it, but it only existed for a few milliseconds.

01:41:36.000 Yeah, sorry, I've had too much.

01:41:38.000 No worries.

01:41:42.000 So, how did they define this material?

01:41:47.000 No, there's different isotopes of every element.

01:41:53.000 And element 115, just like any other element, there can be a stable version of it and a hundred or fifty different unstable elements to them.

01:42:06.000 So, I'm sorry.

01:42:12.000 No, no, just try to continue the train of thought.

01:42:15.000 So, It's basically different isotopes of it.

01:42:18.000 Yeah, different isotopes.

01:42:21.000 I need to stop drinking this.

01:42:24.000 Have a cup of coffee.

01:42:25.000 I can't even remember.

01:42:27.000 Oh, coffee's good.

01:42:28.000 Oh, we got coffee.

01:42:30.000 Oh, my God.

01:42:31.000 All right.

01:42:33.000 There you go, little hub.

01:42:33.000 Holy cow.

01:42:35.000 Yeah, I mean, there's different isotopes.

01:42:38.000 And you were able to physically touch this element?

01:42:41.000 Oh, absolutely.

01:42:42.000 I was physically able to touch the element, yeah.

01:42:47.000 But when you're physically able to touch it, there's no adverse effects.

01:42:50.000 It doesn't have any effect on the body.

01:42:52.000 Does it feel like metal?

01:42:53.000 Does it feel like plastic?

01:42:55.000 It looks copper like.

01:42:57.000 I mean, maybe it's not as dark as copper is, but it's that color.

01:43:04.000 And I haven't seen an element like that.

01:43:08.000 It has unique properties that other elements don't have, it produces an anti gravitational field.

01:43:17.000 When combined with energy?

01:43:19.000 With some kind of energy it produces this field.

01:43:22.000 Yeah.

01:43:23.000 And was it understood what is happening?

01:43:25.000 Like, what is the relationship between this element and this?

01:43:29.000 Like, how is what is going on?

01:43:32.000 Like, you're bombarding this element with something?

01:43:35.000 Yeah.

01:43:36.000 From what we understood, we x rayed the reactor itself, and there was a path around it that looked like a cyclotron.

01:43:48.000 So it looked like.

01:43:50.000 There was an accelerator.

01:43:53.000 So, when they were explaining it to you, is this just your work partner that's explaining this stuff to you?

01:44:01.000 Yeah, it's just Barry that's explaining it.

01:44:03.000 And did you ask him, how do you know this?

01:44:04.000 Where are you getting this from?

01:44:07.000 Yeah, he got this information prior to me.

01:44:11.000 And they x rayed it, found a structure in there to where they believed it was an accelerator, and it was.

01:44:22.000 Interacting the point of the one.

01:44:25.000 The 115 is in a little triangular piece.

01:44:30.000 And it was interacting with that in some fashion.

01:44:35.000 And did he say whether or not the United States government or whoever was doing this research had tried to recreate one of those on their own?

01:44:46.000 That was our job to try to recreate one of those on their own.

01:44:49.000 But what was the metal that it was made out of?

01:44:52.000 We don't know.

01:44:53.000 Again, the metallurgy was not, that was not.

01:44:53.000 We don't know.

01:44:58.000 It seems insane that you couldn't communicate to them that whatever this stuff is made out of, this whole thing acts as one cohesive unit.

01:45:07.000 It's not like you could make the same exact thing with aluminum or carbon fiber.

01:45:11.000 No, you can't.

01:45:12.000 This thing acted differently.

01:45:14.000 This thing acted differently than any material that we knew.

01:45:18.000 And, I mean, I think all the answers are in the metallurgy guys.

01:45:23.000 You know, that's who knew what was going on, who was able to provide the answers.

01:45:29.000 But.

01:45:32.000 As far as we knew, if we didn't have the connection with those other groups, we weren't really going to make any progress.

01:45:38.000 You were speculating that there was a type of metallic alloy that would work better with this concept.

01:45:50.000 Was it Byzantine?

01:45:52.000 Bismuth?

01:45:53.000 Bismuth, yes.

01:45:55.000 Did I say that?

01:45:56.000 I don't think so.

01:45:58.000 No?

01:45:58.000 No.

01:45:59.000 Someone that I talked to was explaining to me.

01:46:01.000 It's related to on the periodic table.

01:46:03.000 I mean, bismuth is above it and 115 is below it.

01:46:07.000 But we never did see any correlation between bismuth.

01:46:11.000 This was a completely new material.

01:46:13.000 Oh, that's what it was.

01:46:13.000 Well, I think.

01:46:14.000 Oh, this is what it was.

01:46:16.000 So one of the pieces that Gary Nolan had found that was.

01:46:22.000 Gary Nolan is the guy at Stanford that has examined these pieces that are from.

01:46:28.000 Supposedly crashed sites, crash sites where something had gone down and scattered.

01:46:35.000 Some of these pieces, they're atomically layered.

01:46:38.000 I've heard that.

01:46:39.000 Magnesium and bismuth seem to be prevalent.

01:46:42.000 Bismuth is the thing.

01:46:43.000 Yeah.

01:46:44.000 Bismuth is the thing.

01:46:45.000 It's right above 115 on the periodic chart.

01:46:48.000 And there's something about that.

01:46:50.000 There's something about 115.

01:46:51.000 Yeah.

01:46:52.000 All this weird magnetism stuff with bismuth.

01:46:55.000 There's a video from the Action Lab, the strange magnetism of bismuth.

01:46:59.000 It's diamagnetic.

01:46:59.000 It's strange.

01:47:01.000 Yeah.

01:47:02.000 So let him play it out a little bit.

01:47:06.000 What is diamagnetic?

01:47:08.000 Diamagnetic is it opposes magnetic fields.

01:47:11.000 I see.

01:47:12.000 So it kind of makes sense if they're finding these pieces that are.

01:47:18.000 The way he's explaining.

01:47:19.000 That's business, yeah.

01:47:20.000 The way he's explaining whatever this alloy was, this very small piece that was found, I believe, prior to the 1970s.

01:47:28.000 I don't remember the exact date that he's had, from one of these crashes.

01:47:31.000 One of them was from Brazil that they had recovered.

01:47:33.000 Hmm.

01:47:34.000 And someone had gotten possession of it in the 1990s, and someone had gotten it eventually to Gary Nolan.

01:47:40.000 He said that to create this on Earth, first of all, it can't be done with current technology.

01:47:45.000 We don't have the ability to do this.

01:47:46.000 The layering technology?

01:47:47.000 Yes.

01:47:48.000 And that it would cost billions of dollars just theoretically to make this, and it doesn't exist.

01:47:56.000 Yeah, this is it.

01:47:58.000 Alleged extraterrestrial metal, the bottom of a wedge-hazed craft, 1940s, 26 alternating layers, 1 to 4 microns, dark bismuth.

01:48:08.000 With 100 to 200 microns of silver magnesium zinc alloy.

01:48:12.000 Each piece received from the U.S. Army source were formed with a curvature that tapered.

01:48:18.000 Oh, in the 40s.

01:48:20.000 Yeah.

01:48:20.000 Right.

01:48:21.000 Good luck making that.

01:48:22.000 Well, I mean, it says a wedge shaped craft in the late 1940s.

01:48:26.000 That's Roswell.

01:48:28.000 I mean, that's Roswell.

01:48:29.000 Oh, I mean, what does it do?

01:48:32.000 I would like to see the test results of just the material.

01:48:36.000 We can make that now.

01:48:39.000 We can?

01:48:40.000 Yeah.

01:48:40.000 One to four microns of bismuth?

01:48:43.000 200 microns of silver?

01:48:45.000 Yeah.

01:48:47.000 The thing is, like, making something like that in the 1940s is absolutely impossible.

01:48:50.000 No, in the 40s, forget it.

01:48:52.000 It's impossible.

01:48:52.000 But I mean, now we could fabricate something like that.

01:48:55.000 And it would cost a shitload of money.

01:48:56.000 So, like, the idea that you would make something like that and just scatter it around and go.

01:49:01.000 But what does it do?

01:49:02.000 Right.

01:49:02.000 What does it do?

01:49:03.000 Why?

01:49:03.000 Why is magnesium and bismuth, why in that particular array?

01:49:08.000 There is something about bismuth.

01:49:10.000 There was something about Bismuth.

01:49:11.000 But that's why it's so fascinating.

01:49:14.000 I would love to know where they.

01:49:15.000 Look, it's been 40 years.

01:49:17.000 I would love to know where they're at now.

01:49:19.000 Yeah, where they're at now if they continued.

01:49:22.000 Well, they had to have continued.

01:49:23.000 I can't imagine you go, eh, we're done.

01:49:26.000 No, I mean, they may have moved it.

01:49:28.000 I mean, like I said before, they were anxious to move it out of there at that time.

01:49:33.000 Are you aware of the labyrinths in Egypt that they've discovered?

01:49:42.000 Are you talking about the columns?

01:49:44.000 No, no, no.

01:49:45.000 This is unrelated.

01:49:47.000 This is something different.

01:49:48.000 So, Herodotus discussed this.

01:49:50.000 Now, my friend Ben Van Kirkwick, he has Uncharted X on YouTube.

01:49:55.000 It's an amazing channel where he was a tech guy who just got absolutely fascinated by all these stories of ancient history and really got obsessed with Egypt and Peru and left his field and started making these incredible videos.

01:50:11.000 But he's highly intelligent, incredibly articulate.

01:50:14.000 And so, these videos are fantastic.

01:50:16.000 Just absolutely fantastic.

01:50:17.000 And really, he's very well versed scientifically, so you can understand these things and explain them to you.

01:50:27.000 Like, they're examining the construction of the pyramids and whatever technology was used to carve the stones.

01:50:34.000 And there's just so much of it that is confusing because it clearly is like a very high level of sophistication and technology that's involved in creating these things.

01:50:45.000 Well, Herodotus described these labyrinths.

01:50:48.000 That were underground in Giza, not in Giza, but Hawara?

01:50:53.000 Is that where it was?

01:50:54.000 Jamie will find it.

01:50:56.000 But the way Herodotus described it, he said they were far superior and more impressive than the pyramids of Giza.

01:51:06.000 Underground.

01:51:07.000 Well, these massive labyrinths that exist underground were all flooded in the 1960s accidentally when they created dams in order to provide irrigation to agriculture that was in the area.

01:51:22.000 They changed the water table, fucked it up.

01:51:24.000 This whole area got flooded. 0.78

01:51:25.000 Did they know they were there when they accidentally?

01:51:27.000 No, they didn't because a lot of this stuff, like this is from thousands and thousands of years ago.

01:51:32.000 A lot of it was covered over with sand.

01:51:34.000 And, you know, there had been some explorers a long time ago that went there and saw some of what was in there.

01:51:41.000 But the way Herodotus described it, it's just absolutely fantastic.

01:51:45.000 So then they started using ground penetrating radar.

01:51:48.000 And they started using these various technologies that could detect what was under the surface.

01:51:52.000 And one of the things that they found was there's a massive atrium.

01:51:56.000 And inside this atrium, there is a 40 meter long metallic object that is inside this atrium.

01:52:06.000 40 meters of some unknown metal.

01:52:08.000 How deep is it?

01:52:10.000 I believe it's 100 meters into the ground.

01:52:13.000 So you're telling me ground penetrating radar can get to 100 meters underground?

01:52:18.000 The stuff that Filippo Bondi has used from satellites is more than a kilometer into the ground.

01:52:27.000 With decent resolution?

01:52:29.000 Well, not decent resolution, but enough that you could see symmetry.

01:52:33.000 Enough that they can also detect things that are well known.

01:52:36.000 A hundred meters in the room.

01:52:38.000 Well, listen to this.

01:52:39.000 They detected accurately a particle collider in Italy that is inside of a mountain, 1.2 kilometers below the mountain.

01:52:49.000 It sees through the mountain and can detect this thing in the exact dimensions that this thing exists.

01:52:58.000 So, they can show you a particle collider?

01:53:03.000 So, this is a particle collider that they know exists.

01:53:03.000 Yes.

01:53:06.000 So, this is an actual particle collider that they're looking for.

01:53:09.000 So, it's just proof that this technology is not just.

01:53:12.000 Well, wait.

01:53:13.000 I mean, hang on.

01:53:14.000 I mean, how do they know it's a particle collider?

01:53:16.000 No, no.

01:53:17.000 Well, no, the particle collider exists.

01:53:20.000 The Italians have this particle collider. 1.00

01:53:23.000 It's known, they made it.

01:53:26.000 They just used it for the year round.

01:53:27.000 Right.

01:53:28.000 No, it's not like we found a particle collider that didn't exist.

01:53:30.000 Okay, that's what I thought you were saying.

01:53:31.000 No, no, no, no.

01:53:32.000 So, this particle collider, they use this technology to show that you can see straight through this mountain to this particle collider that's underneath the mountain.

01:53:43.000 So, they know the exact dimensions of this particle collider.

01:53:46.000 You can see, you can almost draw a schematic of it.

01:53:48.000 Well, through this technology, they've also found these columns that are below the pyramids.

01:53:53.000 These columns are 22 meters, 20 plus meters in diameter, and they have something that resembles coils around all of them.

01:54:04.000 And they're positioned at various points all around where the structure is.

01:54:08.000 It goes all the way down, hundreds of meters down, and then it goes to another structure, and the whole complex of it, these structures, Goes to over a kilometer into the ground.

01:54:19.000 But how can you see a kilometer underground?

01:54:21.000 Well, you'd have to understand this technology.

01:54:24.000 Was it called radio tomography?

01:54:27.000 Synthetic aperture radar, right?

01:54:27.000 He explained it to me.

01:54:30.000 Well, whatever this technology is.

01:54:30.000 Yes.

01:54:31.000 Is it seeing a kilometer underground at decent resolution?

01:54:35.000 It's not decent resolution, but it's enough to understand the scope of what it is.

01:54:39.000 It's enough to understand where spaces are.

01:54:41.000 Like everybody knows about this but me.

01:54:43.000 I mean, it's pretty fascinating.

01:54:46.000 I'll send you the podcast and I'll send you some of his conferences.

01:54:50.000 Where he was explaining this to rooms filled with scientists.

01:54:54.000 You would think they'd be anxious to dig this up.

01:54:56.000 They are.

01:54:58.000 There's actual studies that are currently being discussed.

01:55:02.000 Well, they already know that there are these channels that go in the ground that have since been covered with silt and sand because the sand's constantly moving.

01:55:11.000 But these things go hundreds of meters down, these shafts that go down.

01:55:16.000 If they find shafts hundreds of meters down with coils around them, look, that's advanced technology.

01:55:22.000 Exactly.

01:55:23.000 This is the point.

01:55:25.000 Whatever this thing is that they have in an atrium, like if they said that they got that craft from an archaeological dig, I mean, maybe the Egyptians had found something similar to this thousands and thousands and thousands of years ago.

01:55:41.000 Yeah, I believe that's possible.

01:55:43.000 Yeah.

01:55:44.000 Well, the object that you're, I didn't, I actually got to speak to Filippo Biondi, by the way.

01:55:50.000 He's in Italy, he's in Rome.

01:55:52.000 I speak Italian, so we got to talk.

01:55:54.000 And we talked about that.

01:55:56.000 I had no idea they found something with a metal object down there, though.

01:55:59.000 This is not Filippo Biondi's work.

01:56:01.000 Oh, okay.

01:56:02.000 This is different scientists that are just studying the labyrinths.

01:56:06.000 Jamie, pull up some schematics of the labyrinth.

01:56:10.000 So, in the labyrinth, there's like a big, large atrium.

01:56:13.000 You got to pee again?

01:56:14.000 Go ahead.

01:56:15.000 Sorry.

01:56:15.000 Head up.

01:56:16.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:56:16.000 God, I feel like a fucking ass. 1.00

01:56:18.000 Don't worry about it. 1.00

01:56:19.000 Get some air.

01:56:20.000 I have a prostate problem. 0.98

01:56:20.000 Clear your head. 0.98

01:56:22.000 So, in this labyrinth, there's a large atrium.

01:56:26.000 Okay.

01:56:26.000 And in this large atrium, there is essentially a tic tac.

01:56:31.000 Really?

01:56:32.000 A tic tac shaped object.

01:56:34.000 That is 40 meters long.

01:56:37.000 That is of some unknown metal.

01:56:40.000 They don't know what it is.

01:56:41.000 They don't know how it works, but this structure is all underground in Egypt.

01:56:47.000 Which is wild because, and how, it's 100 meters?

01:56:50.000 Well, look, we'll get a chance to look at it.

01:56:53.000 This is a Hawara. 0.99

01:56:55.000 So there it says the 40 meter metallic object.

01:56:58.000 See that where it says Hawara rising?

01:57:00.000 So if you click on that, it talks about the 40 meter metallic object discovered in Egyptians.

01:57:00.000 Yeah.

01:57:08.000 Can't read a report.

01:57:09.000 Subterranean Labyrinth.

01:57:10.000 Yeah.

01:57:11.000 People talking about it.

01:57:12.000 Got it.

01:57:12.000 Right.

01:57:13.000 But so, whatever it is, play out some of the video just so we could talk about it.

01:57:19.000 So, this whole thing, if you see some of the images that they're discussing, I've seen some of the images.

01:57:26.000 I've seen some of the images, I think.

01:57:28.000 And today we're talking about the work that I had in Chicago and the team that was in Poland as well.

01:57:38.000 And at that point, is when I had met the person, Lucina Lobos.

01:57:42.000 who later became my wife six months later.

01:57:46.000 So, yeah, you actually were working with the NRAG and then the.

01:57:51.000 I don't know what they're talking about.

01:57:53.000 Yeah, this is not going to help us.

01:57:54.000 But if you could just go to some of the images where they've sort of outlined what it is.

01:57:59.000 I'm sure you'll find it.

01:58:01.000 There is not a very clear image of the metallic object that.

01:58:03.000 No, no, that's fine.

01:58:04.000 But just the labyrinth itself, what they think the structure of it was.

01:58:07.000 So I don't know where they got this from.

01:58:09.000 It's also the other issue.

01:58:10.000 40 meter mystery metal object.

01:58:12.000 That's a weird rendering that doesn't usually come out from.

01:58:15.000 Right, but there's some other drawings of, like, from the Herodotus days and.

01:58:19.000 Yeah, but. 0.96

01:58:20.000 So, this is what they think it looks like under the ground, which is fucking completely bonkers.

01:58:27.000 And if there is some 40 meter metallic object that's under the ground, and we are talking about this sport model being a part of an archaeological dig, they might have found something back then and worshipped that thing and had that thing as like, you know.

01:58:41.000 You turned it into this as a pyramid.

01:58:43.000 Yeah.

01:58:46.000 I think there's something to that.

01:58:48.000 Well, you know, all these people that believe that there was an incredibly advanced civilization before some sort of apocalyptic disaster that reset civilization and it took thousands of years.

01:59:00.000 And what we are essentially is not the first advanced civilization, but a rebuild.

01:59:06.000 A rebuild.

01:59:07.000 Thousands and thousands and thousands of years later.

01:59:10.000 You know, that rings true with me.

01:59:13.000 Me too.

01:59:14.000 As Graham Hancock always says, we're a species with amnesia.

01:59:18.000 And I think that makes sense.

01:59:19.000 And I think.

01:59:20.000 If you're dealing with people that were basically knocked back into the Stone Age 11,000, 12,000 years ago, and it took us forever to rebuild to where we are now, I think we've gone down a completely different path than whatever the people that were able to build the pyramids of Egypt and all these fantastic megalithic structures.

01:59:39.000 We don't understand what technology we used.

01:59:42.000 And it literally doesn't make sense that they were able to do this.

01:59:46.000 It's even like when we see those big, gigantic stones, and they're not just piled together, they're like interlocked in weird shapes and all that.

01:59:53.000 How did that happen?

01:59:54.000 I mean, those are things that, yeah, I agree with you.

01:59:56.000 Yeah, archaeologists are very reluctant to admit it, but there's tremendous evidence that not only were these people far more advanced than we think people should have been back then, but they're probably more advanced than we are now with some different kind of technology.

02:00:12.000 And maybe, again, it's like advanced, but in a different way.

02:00:18.000 Right.

02:00:18.000 Right?

02:00:19.000 Because otherwise.

02:00:19.000 It's a different pathway.

02:00:21.000 They didn't go our way.

02:00:22.000 Yeah, they didn't go internal combustion engine and electronics.

02:00:25.000 Because we would see something.

02:00:27.000 But might not.

02:00:27.000 Right.

02:00:27.000 Exactly.

02:00:28.000 If you're thinking about 100,000 years ago, there might not be anything left, which is part of the problem.

02:00:33.000 But whatever this metallic object is, if they are able to figure out a way to divert some of the water there, see all layers converge in a central corridor or avenue, he said, like the atrium of a shopping mall, where you can see all floors from one vantage point.

02:00:33.000 Right.

02:00:49.000 A hall consisting of a massive space 40 meters wide and no less than 100 meters long.

02:00:55.000 My personal interpretation, Tim said, is that the entire hall.

02:00:58.000 Was constructed to house a centrally positioned freestanding object about 40 meters long.

02:01:05.000 Wow.

02:01:05.000 So, this hall, they believe, was constructed to house whatever this 40 meter long, unknown metallic object is.

02:01:12.000 How could they not dig that up?

02:01:13.000 Well, they could, but it's going to cost an immense amount of money.

02:01:16.000 And the thing is about the Egyptians, the people that run it, I had one of them on the podcast, Zahi Hawass, and he's incredibly dogmatic about his ideas of who built this and what. 0.88

02:01:27.000 And when you say, how did they make these structures?

02:01:31.000 2,300,000 stones.

02:01:33.000 That weighs between two and 80 tons, the biggest stones cut from quarries that were hundreds of miles away through the mountain.

02:01:39.000 And it's like, this was a national project.

02:01:41.000 The Egyptians did everything.

02:01:43.000 Because they were awesome.

02:01:45.000 Yeah, I'm sure they were awesome.

02:01:46.000 I'm sure they were awesome, but it doesn't explain the technology involved because there's extreme technology.

02:01:51.000 Just to be able to cut those things.

02:01:53.000 Like one of the things that they don't understand is these vases.

02:01:58.000 These vases that they made that are perfectly designed, where there's the difference between like the edges and the symmetry is like a thousandth of a human hair.

02:02:10.000 And these are cut out of incredibly hard granite.

02:02:13.000 They don't really?

02:02:14.000 I've never heard.

02:02:15.000 Yeah.

02:02:16.000 Yeah.

02:02:16.000 You guys are familiar with that.

02:02:18.000 This is a 3D print of one of them that exists.

02:02:21.000 Yeah.

02:02:21.000 And they're fascinated by the perfection.

02:02:23.000 And they're saying, how did they do that?

02:02:23.000 Yes.

02:02:25.000 We don't even know.

02:02:26.000 Incredibly hard stone.

02:02:28.000 Built with an incredible precision.

02:02:31.000 And, and, Granite.

02:02:31.000 Yes.

02:02:33.000 Granite.

02:02:34.000 Incredibly hard granite, incredible precision.

02:02:36.000 Back when they had no metal alloys, they had copper tools.

02:02:39.000 It doesn't make any sense.

02:02:41.000 None of it makes any sense.

02:02:42.000 Then there's the symmetry involved in some of these statues.

02:02:47.000 Like they're perfectly symmetrical in terms of the distance between the eyes, the nose, the lips.

02:02:52.000 Most no one's face is symmetrical.

02:02:54.000 Your left side of your face is different.

02:02:55.000 If you combine the two sides, they look weird.

02:02:59.000 But when you look at these statues, these statues, which are massive, carved out of granite, again, Supposedly, before they had steel, like they didn't have diamond tipped instruments to do this, they polished them.

02:03:11.000 They're perfectly symmetrical and massive.

02:03:14.000 Some of them are a thousand tons, and they don't have any understanding of how these people built these things or put them there.

02:03:20.000 And they all seem to be the biggest, most spectacular ones are the oldest.

02:03:25.000 How could you not want to dig those up?

02:03:28.000 Yeah, well, and look at them.

02:03:31.000 I mean, they're concerned about national pride, but if you dig them up, I mean, it's not just national pride, it's the pride of the people that have.

02:03:39.000 Been espousing this one narrative for so long.

02:03:41.000 That's part of the problem.

02:03:42.000 The gatekeepers of the information.

02:03:44.000 It's still national pride. 1.00

02:03:46.000 It is, but these people are idiots. 1.00

02:03:48.000 That's part of the problem. 1.00

02:03:50.000 Their own ego is preventing them from being open minded and calling out to the world's research communities and saying, listen, there's something going on here.

02:04:00.000 We don't have the big picture.

02:04:01.000 We have a picture that we have formed from a limited amount of information and we've been incredibly arrogant about what we're assuming.

02:04:08.000 We also know that a lot of these pharaohs would carve their name.

02:04:13.000 And carve their hieroglyphs into existing things.

02:04:16.000 They would claim existing things.

02:04:18.000 Some of the carvings on these things are far cruder in the way they've done it than the actual construction of the thing.

02:04:25.000 And they think that these are old things that were there already, and then these later pharaohs chiseled their hieroglyphs into these things.

02:04:35.000 And another thing, and this has been mentioned a lot, is the fact that there's no tools that were ever discovered.

02:04:43.000 In those areas that would prove that those things were made with those, and they had to use tools.

02:04:48.000 They had to have something.

02:04:49.000 Right.

02:04:50.000 So there's not even that.

02:04:51.000 That's not even available.

02:04:53.000 So it's like, how did they do it?

02:04:54.000 Did they hide the tools?

02:04:56.000 Did they, I mean, why would they do that?

02:04:58.000 It doesn't, none of it makes any sense.

02:05:00.000 And also, these incredibly hard vases that you find, they're the oldest ones.

02:05:04.000 They're the things that they find in the oldest sites.

02:05:07.000 It's like the most complicated, complex, confusing technology seems to be the oldest stuff.

02:05:12.000 Yeah.

02:05:12.000 There's also like.

02:05:14.000 You had another guy here that does research on Peru.

02:05:18.000 And he was talking, I can't remember his name.

02:05:20.000 I got to meet him.

02:05:20.000 Luke Caverns?

02:05:22.000 Was it him?

02:05:23.000 Yeah, it goes to Peru and he has a show about that, about the ancient stuff that they're finding underground in Peru.

02:05:28.000 There's a couple guys.

02:05:29.000 What was the other guy?

02:05:30.000 He's got black hair.

02:05:32.000 I can't remember his name.

02:05:33.000 That's Luke.

02:05:34.000 Younger guy?

02:05:34.000 Yeah, younger guy.

02:05:35.000 Yeah, that's Luke.

02:05:36.000 So basically, he was talking about the fact that there's two layers of ancient stuff in Peru.

02:05:42.000 The first layer is younger, and what's below it is what's really incredible and more complex.

02:05:47.000 More complex, but they don't want to go there because you're going to destroy an existing archaeological site that's on top of it.

02:05:55.000 So, what's happening is they're having trouble now getting permission to go to the lower level, which is even better because they're going to have to break an archaeological site of a more recent part of that civilization.

02:06:09.000 Well, this is a common theme among people.

02:06:11.000 We build on older sites.

02:06:13.000 There's a place that I go to in Italy in the Amalfi Coast, and there's this incredible old church there that's over a thousand years old, but it's built on an even older church.

02:06:25.000 Floor that shows the old church.

02:06:28.000 The old church is underneath it, and you can see the structure of this old church.

02:06:31.000 I was asking them, How old is the old church?

02:06:33.000 They go, We don't know.

02:06:35.000 It's over a thousand years old.

02:06:36.000 So it's over a thousand years old, this church, and then this really old church is on top of it that's like hundreds and hundreds of years old, also.

02:06:45.000 But they built it on top of an existing structure.

02:06:48.000 So this is a common theme.

02:06:49.000 This is a theme in Peru where you see the Inca construction, which is like much less complicated, smaller stones.

02:06:57.000 You know, mud mortar, but it's on top of these megalithic structures that are carved in these jigsaw shapes where it seems like they've been melted.

02:07:06.000 Yeah.

02:07:07.000 It's freaky stuff.

02:07:08.000 They have no understanding of what technology was used, who did it, how they did it, how they moved these immense thousand ton stones and cut them with precision in this jigsaw way so that it will absorb the energy of earthquakes and not fall down.

02:07:23.000 Yeah, that's crazy.

02:07:25.000 I mean, that's crazy.

02:07:26.000 There's a lot of that stuff that's really, really freaky.

02:07:28.000 And then you get into old religious texts, and that's when things get really freaky.

02:07:34.000 You get to things like the Book of Enoch that talk about the watchers who came down from the sky and created the world.

02:07:39.000 Clearly, a lot of unusual stuff happened a long time ago.

02:07:45.000 And we don't have a good record of it.

02:07:48.000 We just have what we know.

02:07:49.000 And what we know, we get very arrogant about.

02:07:52.000 We know what happened 300 years ago.

02:07:53.000 That's a really good point.

02:07:55.000 Of what we know, we get very arrogant about.

02:07:57.000 Right.

02:07:58.000 And anything else we don't.

02:07:59.000 These academics and these people that are in charge of the narrative, like the people in Egypt, where they're very arrogant and they're gatekeepers because their whole identity is based on them being the ones that explain to the world how these incredible sites were produced.

02:08:15.000 And if something comes along that is counter to that narrative, they fight it.

02:08:20.000 They fight it because it's part of them, it's their identity.

02:08:24.000 When I spoke to Filippo Biondi, I talked to one of my cousins in Italy.

02:08:27.000 I spent a lot of my time in Italy when I was younger.

02:08:30.000 One of them, she was younger than I was when I was there, but she's now become a respected archaeologist in Rome, and she's an Egyptologist.

02:08:39.000 Okay.

02:08:40.000 And I went out to Italy to visit family, and I was sitting at the table.

02:08:44.000 This is not even that long ago.

02:08:46.000 And she's sitting next to me, and I mean, I remember her from being a kid.

02:08:50.000 And she nudged me at the table. 0.98

02:08:53.000 Her family's all academic, everybody's a doctor or scientist or something like that.

02:08:58.000 So there's always that pride of the science.

02:09:01.000 And she nudges me, and in Italian, she says, I'm really interested in what you do, what you're looking into.

02:09:08.000 And I knew what she meant.

02:09:09.000 It was about UFOs.

02:09:11.000 And I just responded, I'm even more interested in what you know about what's out there in Egypt.

02:09:20.000 And she looked at me, and she says, We don't really know all of it.

02:09:26.000 She said, A lot of it makes no sense.

02:09:29.000 But she said it whispering because she knew that that's not well seen at the table because now she's going to come across as this pseudoscience type of like, oh my God, she's going to come out of the mainstream, you know.

02:09:44.000 So, and then she came, she went to her place, and I was still there.

02:09:49.000 We were there for a couple of days.

02:09:51.000 She came and gave me a little book.

02:09:53.000 And in Italian, I don't know how to say it, the missing.

02:10:01.000 I don't know how to say it in English, but the missing Vangelo, like the missing scriptures, basically.

02:10:07.000 It's a little book in Italian about the missing scriptures that are not in the Bible that speak of things that are not convenient for what we are arrogant to think we understand.

02:10:20.000 And one of the fascinating things about these missing scriptures is they found them alongside existing scriptures.

02:10:25.000 So when they found the Dead Sea Scrolls in Qumran, so they found these in a cave in Qumran, it's kind of a crazy thing.

02:10:32.000 Like someone threw a rock.

02:10:33.000 And hit a clay pot and heard the shattering of a clay pot.

02:10:36.000 So they threw a rock into this high cave and realized there was something in there, and then they started looking.

02:10:44.000 And then they found these scrolls that were in these clay pots.

02:10:47.000 Inside the scrolls, they found the book of Isaiah.

02:10:49.000 It was a thousand years older than the oldest version of the book of Isaiah that we had ever found, and it's identical verbatim to the book of Isaiah that is currently in the Bible.

02:11:03.000 Along with it, Is the book of Enoch. 0.97

02:11:06.000 And the book of Enoch is fucking squirrely. 0.98

02:11:08.000 Yeah, the book of Enoch is squirrely. 0.99

02:11:11.000 Yeah, it's a good way to describe it.

02:11:13.000 Just a few rabbis decided that the book of Enoch was too weird because it didn't jive with the Torah, so they left it out of the biblical canon.

02:11:21.000 That's why it's not taught.

02:11:21.000 That's right.

02:11:24.000 But the book of Enoch is readily available.

02:11:26.000 And it's also in the Ethiopian Bible.

02:11:26.000 You could read it.

02:11:28.000 The Ethiopian Bible includes the book of Enoch.

02:11:30.000 Really?

02:11:31.000 Yes.

02:11:31.000 And those are the people that supposedly are in possession of the Ark of the Covenant.

02:11:35.000 The Ark of the Covenant, yeah.

02:11:36.000 Which is like, Graham Hancock talks about it.

02:11:39.000 There's like a person is set to, like, they have a job of watching the Ark of the Covenant, but it's known that it's going to kill them.

02:11:45.000 So they all get cataracts and cancer.

02:11:47.000 Yeah, like, it has like bad things.

02:11:49.000 Well, it has some sort of radiation, apparently.

02:11:49.000 Yeah, that's true.

02:11:51.000 And they exhibit signs of radiation poisoning when these people are designed to be the curators.

02:11:56.000 Where is the Ark of the Covenant?

02:11:58.000 As I come in, supposedly in Ethiopia.

02:12:00.000 So, you guys think that's.

02:12:02.000 I mean, I'm very.

02:12:03.000 I think it's ancient technology.

02:12:05.000 I think it's probably ancient technology.

02:12:06.000 It's probably some completely not understood ancient technology.

02:12:12.000 I'm not discounting it.

02:12:14.000 I'm just wondering. 0.99

02:12:15.000 Well, I like the fact that you're skeptical, even though you have the craziest fucking story of all time. 0.99

02:12:19.000 But it speaks to your integrity. 0.99

02:12:22.000 It really does. 1.00

02:12:22.000 Because you're not a guy who believes kooky shit. 1.00

02:12:25.000 So, for you, a guy who doesn't believe kooky shit is a hard, rational scientist who's an engineer who's done things. 0.99

02:12:31.000 Like, put a rocket engine in the back of a fucking Honda, and then, or a hydrogen powered Corvette, and then you go and see these things. 0.99

02:12:38.000 You're like, wait, what the fuck is this thing you have? 0.99

02:12:42.000 Like, I just, I worship technology. 0.99

02:12:44.000 Right.

02:12:45.000 Right.

02:12:45.000 Nothing else.

02:12:46.000 So, I mean, to hear something like that, do you think that that actually exists?

02:12:53.000 I don't know.

02:12:54.000 Graham Hancock is convinced it exists.

02:12:56.000 It's very carefully guarded, and these people have been guarding it for centuries.

02:12:59.000 I mean, it's just throughout history, right?

02:13:01.000 Yes.

02:13:02.000 So, I mean, there's too many missing pieces of the puzzle to really say one way or another.

02:13:06.000 I don't think so.

02:13:07.000 Whether or not it was just mythology or an actual.

02:13:11.000 Right. 0.99

02:13:12.000 But it is weird that he's talked to these people that have these fucking cataracts, and these people all say the same thing they die. 0.99

02:13:17.000 The people that are designed or that are designated to be the curators of this particular religious life. 0.98

02:13:24.000 I relate this back to the fact that I think I told you the first time we met.

02:13:27.000 You know, if somebody found a nuclear reactor back at that time, you know, and they took it apart, they just would drop dead, right?

02:13:36.000 You know, from the radio, yeah, magically from that.

02:13:40.000 And anybody that came in to check on them would also die and they go, This is evil, it's cursed, or whatever.

02:13:46.000 Or something that you're not supposed to have access to because it's dark.

02:13:51.000 Or some other, yeah, right.

02:13:53.000 And could this be something at another level?

02:13:56.000 Yes, you know, that I have to say.

02:13:59.000 And I mean, I'm no one to say it, but I struggle with divine stuff because I'm like, this craft or this technology.

02:14:07.000 I mean, our phones to somebody a thousand years ago would look like some divine object.

02:14:14.000 I mean, it's technology to us.

02:14:16.000 So we have to be very cautious.

02:14:19.000 I'm not saying there is no divine something.

02:14:21.000 Maybe there is.

02:14:22.000 We don't know.

02:14:22.000 But I think technology really could mask itself as divine power.

02:14:28.000 Or divine energy itself.

02:14:28.000 100%.

02:14:32.000 Could be technology taken to its final form.

02:14:36.000 That's that I'm open to.

02:14:38.000 Well, if you think about what we're talking about with sentient AI, an AI that has the ability to make better versions of itself, what happens if it's left alone for a thousand years to do this?

02:14:49.000 Well, what do you have?

02:14:50.000 You have something that can harness the power of the universe itself.

02:14:55.000 The zero point energy can do whatever it, I mean, has a complete understanding of quantum entanglement, complete understanding of how the universe functions, how it was created.

02:15:05.000 I mean, there's new theories that believe that the entire universe itself exists inside of a black hole.

02:15:10.000 They're trying to figure out whether or not there ever was a Big Bang or if it's a continuous cycle of things existing inside black holes.

02:15:17.000 So, where do you think we are?

02:15:20.000 What do you think this is?

02:15:21.000 I think it's a process.

02:15:22.000 I think we're at a stage of a process.

02:15:25.000 Our problem is we have ideology, we have.

02:15:29.000 We have dogma, we have ego, we have people that are smarter than most people but want to think that they have all the information, and I don't think they do. 0.97

02:15:38.000 And then we have open minded people that are curious but don't want to look like kooks, and they're all trying to figure it out while we're making a fucking digital god. 0.95

02:15:46.000 Why these weirdo on the spectrum agents. 0.95

02:15:48.000 We are literally manufacturing our own god.

02:15:50.000 Right, right.

02:15:51.000 But if you take that and you extrapolate, you go from where it is now, you think about the exponential increase of technology.

02:15:59.000 Well, where does that go?

02:16:00.000 It kind of goes divine.

02:16:02.000 I mean, that might be what God is.

02:16:05.000 We want to think that God is a thing that exists.

02:16:08.000 It just exists.

02:16:09.000 It created everything.

02:16:11.000 Maybe we make God.

02:16:13.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:16:14.000 We're on the same channel.

02:16:16.000 Yeah, I think we created God.

02:16:20.000 I think human curiosity and this thirst for innovation is all a part of it.

02:16:26.000 I'll say something about the technology because it always fascinates me.

02:16:30.000 I mean, I spent four years with Bobinet to build it in a virtual environment, so I kind of had to think about it while I'm doing it, but.

02:16:37.000 If you really think about what this technology that you saw does, it essentially creates this artificial field of whether it's artificial, maybe it's natural, maybe it's a natural field, but it creates a field that we're not familiar with.

02:16:50.000 And that field, I mean, Joe, you saw the movie, there was a test that was done in the lab that froze a candle flame.

02:16:58.000 Right, right.

02:16:59.000 Okay.

02:17:00.000 But the photons are still visible within our realm here outside of the field, and you're still seeing the photons, yet it looks like it's frozen.

02:17:10.000 To me, is the.

02:17:12.000 Is this, is that technology like a black hole?

02:17:17.000 Is it some type of time stop?

02:17:21.000 And it basically gives us the power to utilize time in our advantage.

02:17:29.000 If you think about progression in technology, anything we do, it takes time.

02:17:34.000 Anything takes time.

02:17:35.000 Whether it's computing power, now we're seeing quantum computers do things that are faster and faster, and they could do a trillion processes in an instant, and Japan is coming up with better, and then China.

02:17:47.000 But because everything has to do with how long does it take to do that.

02:17:51.000 Right.

02:17:52.000 If a technology.

02:17:54.000 Can make you bypass time.

02:17:57.000 It's like the record player playing music, but you're now able to lift it, lift the little pin on the record and move it to wherever you want.

02:18:06.000 Yes.

02:18:06.000 That's a good way to describe it.

02:18:08.000 And now at that point, time is in your hands.

02:18:08.000 Right?

02:18:12.000 And if we have a technology similar to what you saw, because you always said gravity is a control, gravity and time, it's interlocked, right?

02:18:22.000 And space and time are interlocked.

02:18:24.000 Exactly.

02:18:24.000 So if that's interlocked, Then we have to look at it not just as a propulsion system or some type of cool weapon, but how is it affecting time and how can we use that to our benefit to evolve faster?

02:18:41.000 Because again, the faster we can compute, the faster we could do something, the faster we're evolving.

02:18:49.000 And if we could lift that needle and bring it faster to get there, to get somewhere, why not use it?

02:18:56.000 Or should we be allowed to do that?

02:18:59.000 Us in our current form.

02:19:00.000 Yeah.

02:19:01.000 No.

02:19:03.000 Like I said, I'm not exactly on our side anymore.

02:19:08.000 Well, that was one of the.

02:19:09.000 Do you remember, Jamie, who discussed the way they were describing the use of some of this alien technology as instantaneous weapon deployment systems?

02:19:19.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:19:20.000 I'm not sure we should be trusted with this stuff.

02:19:23.000 Right?

02:19:23.000 No, really.

02:19:25.000 Well, you think about what we're doing in Iran right now, you would say no.

02:19:29.000 Yeah.

02:19:29.000 Yeah, I would say no.

02:19:31.000 We're still flying over patches of dirt and bombing the fucking shit out of it. 0.98

02:19:35.000 No, imagine if we had something a million times that power. 0.99

02:19:41.000 Really, humans should not be trusted with that.

02:19:46.000 Right, we ought to trust it to AI.

02:19:48.000 That's why we're making it bomb.

02:19:51.000 This is getting scary.

02:19:53.000 It is getting scary.

02:19:54.000 It is.

02:19:54.000 But it's not science fiction anymore.

02:19:57.000 No, I mean, we're making fun of it now.

02:19:59.000 But no, this is dangerous stuff.

02:20:03.000 And I'm sorry for the people who think this is all a joke.

02:20:06.000 It's not.

02:20:07.000 This is real.

02:20:08.000 And I'm really not sure we should be trusted with this.

02:20:12.000 That's maybe why for 40 years or 60 years, people have agreed to keep it quiet.

02:20:17.000 I would agree.

02:20:20.000 Well, that's the most logical conclusion.

02:20:22.000 Yeah, this is incredibly dangerous stuff.

02:20:24.000 Yeah.

02:20:24.000 And again, it's a world dominating technology.

02:20:28.000 And I don't know what to do with it other than to keep it from people.

02:20:34.000 So, and how do we know if it comes up?

02:20:38.000 Something I always struggle with is let's say we do get some type of thing saying, all right, we have to see it from somebody in the government, the president, whoever, that says, okay, here we are, we have this.

02:20:53.000 Well, first of all, we have to validate it.

02:20:55.000 The journalists are going to, the whole world, the media is not going to just trust somebody saying that.

02:21:00.000 They're going to go, okay, wait a minute, what are you talking about?

02:21:02.000 So it's not like because somebody says it, we just have to swallow it.

02:21:02.000 Right.

02:21:06.000 It's like, all right, go show us.

02:21:09.000 And then when you do that, well, now you're exposing something else.

02:21:09.000 Yeah.

02:21:09.000 Right.

02:21:13.000 What do we, what, what happens when we need to believe it?

02:21:18.000 Like as, as a, as a, as people, what, what has to happen for me to believe something that somebody says?

02:21:26.000 There really has to be something serious that makes me believe it.

02:21:29.000 Right.

02:21:30.000 You know what I mean?

02:21:31.000 Like, if a president or anybody, prime minister, whoever it is, says something to me, I'll still go, Okay, I mean, show me.

02:21:38.000 And then when they show it, how do I know that's actually that?

02:21:38.000 Right.

02:21:44.000 Think about that.

02:21:45.000 Yeah.

02:21:46.000 Right?

02:21:46.000 And then from there, we now have to go to another level of okay, well, if we have to prove it, we have to bring in scientific community.

02:21:55.000 Okay.

02:21:56.000 That means they have access to it.

02:21:58.000 What's the security parameters there?

02:22:00.000 Right.

02:22:01.000 And then you get compartmentalization.

02:22:03.000 Exactly.

02:22:03.000 And then that stops any sort of an understanding of it.

02:22:03.000 Right.

02:22:06.000 There you go.

02:22:07.000 And that's why you have this stagma, this stagnation of where you've got these people working on this thing for decades and not making any progress.

02:22:15.000 Do you know how far we could have gotten if there was free discussion?

02:22:20.000 Between all the groups working on this.

02:22:21.000 Right.

02:22:22.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:22:23.000 But then you also have these fucking psychos, like from Dr. Strangelove, that want to turn it into a nuclear delivery system. 1.00

02:22:28.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:22:30.000 So you don't have to worry about them detecting nuclear bombs headed their way.

02:22:34.000 You just instantaneously devastate Moscow in one shot.

02:22:39.000 Boom.

02:22:40.000 You don't even have to take credit for it.

02:22:42.000 Yeah, but we'd.

02:22:44.000 Right.

02:22:44.000 No, it's like we are not ready.

02:22:47.000 Right.

02:22:47.000 We are not ready.

02:22:48.000 I know we're not ready, but we'd be more advanced if we did that.

02:22:51.000 No, I mean, I agree with that.

02:22:54.000 But it's all very strange, and no one knows more strange than you.

02:23:01.000 No, there are plenty of people that know more strange than me.

02:23:03.000 I mean, Dennis knew more strange than me.

02:23:06.000 Anybody above him knew that.

02:23:09.000 I just knew a small part of it.

02:23:10.000 But you, out of all the people that can talk about it, that are out there communicating about it, you have actually seen it physically.

02:23:18.000 Yeah, I try to only talk about what I've seen and touched and verified.

02:23:23.000 I've heard plenty of other stuff that I don't know if it's true or not.

02:23:27.000 And there's no sense in repeating that because nonsense moves at the speed of light these days.

02:23:32.000 Right.

02:23:33.000 Yeah, it does.

02:23:34.000 And that's just, it's terrible.

02:23:37.000 You live in a weird existence, Bob.

02:23:39.000 You really do.

02:23:40.000 Because you've been holding on to this and you have this experience from 40 years ago that's just become a part of folklore, it's become part of the zeitgeist.

02:23:54.000 This is why your podcast that we did is the most watched podcast I've ever done.

02:23:58.000 This resonates with people in a way that, look, I've done a lot of UFO ones.

02:24:03.000 I had Travis Walton on.

02:24:04.000 I've had a lot of people that have stories.

02:24:06.000 They're all very interesting.

02:24:07.000 They don't get nearly the amount of traction that yours does.

02:24:10.000 And I think it's because you're uniquely credible.

02:24:13.000 You're uniquely credible in the fact that you are very skeptical.

02:24:16.000 You're not interested in these fantastic ideas, you're very dismissive of nonsense.

02:24:21.000 But yet you have this burden. 0.99

02:24:24.000 You actually physically touched these fucking things and went and saw it. 1.00

02:24:29.000 Yeah, I did. 0.99

02:24:30.000 I mean, I was fortunate enough to have this really unique job.

02:24:34.000 That's about it.

02:24:35.000 And I am fascinated with the technology, but that's where it stops.

02:24:39.000 I'm not interested in anybody else's story, although everybody has to email me.

02:24:45.000 And, you know, I understand it, you know, that they're looking for somebody.

02:24:49.000 Hey, I saw this thing out when I was on my boat.

02:24:52.000 And, you know, what is it?

02:24:54.000 I don't know.

02:24:55.000 You know, I mean, they're just looking for something.

02:24:59.000 And it's like, I don't know, maybe it was Venus or something. 1.00

02:25:02.000 And, oh, my God, you suck. 1.00

02:25:04.000 You know, you work for the government. 1.00

02:25:05.000 You know, it's like, dude, I'm just looking for a prosaic explanation.

02:25:09.000 Right.

02:25:10.000 And, you know, but I only know what I saw and I touched for myself and everything else, even in official government documentation.

02:25:20.000 It's just words on paper.

02:25:22.000 I don't know if that stuff is true.

02:25:23.000 So you got to draw the line there.

02:25:25.000 Yes.

02:25:26.000 But, you know, I know what I did see, I know for a fact.

02:25:31.000 And there is no way you can tell me that that's not real.

02:25:40.000 I mean, I have to say, in having worked with him and having, you know, inadvertently, there's no way that myself or people on my team weren't trying to dig deeper.

02:25:52.000 Maybe there's a problem.

02:25:53.000 Maybe there's going to be a gap.

02:25:54.000 Maybe we'll find something wrong with the story.

02:25:57.000 Because we went very deep.

02:25:59.000 We had to build S4, we had to build a sport model.

02:26:03.000 And there were things that happened over the years, things that he had said to us before we had built it.

02:26:11.000 That there's no way he could have known because there were physicalities, real things that we built.

02:26:18.000 When you build something in a 3D environment, you're actually building a real world.

02:26:22.000 It's got light bounce and refractions like the real world.

02:26:25.000 Like when you turn on the light, it does the same thing.

02:26:28.000 If a material has a sheen, you see it.

02:26:31.000 It's literally the same thing.

02:26:32.000 It's just computing power that gives you access to another world.

02:26:36.000 And he mentioned things that were absolutely impossible to know.

02:26:41.000 Like what?

02:26:42.000 One of the things that got two things really convinced me.

02:26:48.000 One of them was in the interior of the craft.

02:26:51.000 You had said to us it was very dark in there.

02:26:55.000 And while Bob is explaining to us this interior of the craft, and many times he kept repeating it was really dark in there.

02:27:02.000 Even though there were halogen lights.

02:27:03.000 Right.

02:27:04.000 And so at a certain point, he says, As I'm crawling in, there's like these extension cords.

02:27:08.000 And I remember going, Extension cords?

02:27:10.000 Like it hadn't computed.

02:27:13.000 And he's like, Yeah, they had lights in there.

02:27:15.000 And I'm thinking, it's true.

02:27:17.000 I mean, there's no light switch inside this big thing.

02:27:20.000 It's 50, 52 feet.

02:27:22.000 It's big.

02:27:23.000 And so he said, yeah, there were two big industrial, yellow, industrial lights with four spots each pointed up.

02:27:31.000 And so we decided to make those.

02:27:33.000 We decided to research the type that were used back then in the United States, especially on military bases, the halogen power, because this was halogen in 1988.

02:27:42.000 And we turned them on.

02:27:43.000 And it was still dark.

02:27:45.000 And it was super dark.

02:27:47.000 And I remember.

02:27:48.000 Christopher Matto, by the way, a big shout out to Christopher Matto that's on my team who made a lot of those visuals and he's like a magician.

02:27:54.000 He's the best.

02:27:57.000 He's there and I said, Chris, turn on the lights because we have to film in the craft.

02:28:01.000 And he's like, they're on. 0.97

02:28:03.000 I said, they're not fucking on. 0.96

02:28:05.000 I can't see anything. 0.99

02:28:06.000 He's like, they're fully on.

02:28:08.000 And I said, well, that doesn't make any sense.

02:28:10.000 It's so dark in there.

02:28:12.000 I remember thinking, it consumes light in there.

02:28:14.000 And so we upped the power of the light so that you could see more.

02:28:20.000 And it was still dark.

02:28:21.000 And I thought, what the hell is happening?

02:28:23.000 I go, is there a bug?

02:28:25.000 Is there something wrong?

02:28:26.000 He goes, no, I don't know.

02:28:28.000 It's absorbing the light in there.

02:28:30.000 We had to up the light intensity on those tripods by 20 fold in order for you to see the visuals you see in our film.

02:28:40.000 Otherwise, it would be really dark in that craft.

02:28:43.000 So, how did you compute that?

02:28:44.000 Like, what parameters did you establish?

02:28:49.000 So, what you do is you're inside a 3D environment.

02:28:54.000 You're in a 3D world.

02:28:55.000 Now, we're inside the craft that is 52 feet in diameter.

02:29:00.000 We bring a camera in there.

02:29:01.000 So, we were filming, the whole film was done with Black Magic 6K cams.

02:29:07.000 So, we would bring our Black Magics in the 3D environment. 0.92

02:29:10.000 You can actually set that so that we could film.

02:29:13.000 Inside the craft, so it matches the filming of our real cameras.

02:29:18.000 And so, as soon as the camera's on, it's the same lens, it's the same aperture, everything is as you would have it.

02:29:25.000 And so, you're trying to adjust for this dark room.

02:29:28.000 But if the room is really dark, you can't really get a good look at it because if you go close enough, you would have seen like a seat and a little bit of the reactor, but you would have been like, What's the black screen I'm looking at?

02:29:40.000 So, what is the explanation for why it's so dark?

02:29:43.000 It's just the way the light reflects.

02:29:45.000 And that is exactly, yeah, it's when you're.

02:29:47.000 In that space, exactly.

02:29:49.000 But here's the question: like, what are you, when you're making this in a computer model, right?

02:29:54.000 What are you putting in that would make it absorb light that way?

02:29:59.000 I didn't do that.

02:30:00.000 So, what we did is we spent over a year with Bob.

02:30:05.000 I'm not kidding.

02:30:06.000 It was like a year of trying to figure out the material of the craft, the actual skin of the craft.

02:30:13.000 That was the hardest thing to do in order to.

02:30:14.000 The specularity and the reflectivity of the actual material.

02:30:18.000 And the angle.

02:30:19.000 Yeah.

02:30:19.000 And then, when the lights are in there, they just reflect at a weird angle.

02:30:24.000 And it never gets bright in there unless you have tremendous amounts of light in there.

02:30:29.000 It's always dark.

02:30:31.000 And sorry to interrupt, but that would have been.

02:30:34.000 So, when that happened, and we have the right material, which is like this, let's call it unpolished stainless steel, it's got a little bit of usage to it just to give it some texture.

02:30:46.000 It's got the same sheen, reflection, refractions of a real material like that.

02:30:50.000 Because every time we put a fake light in there, okay, it's reacting like that.

02:30:54.000 And now you turn these big halogen lights on, and it's like the part of where the halogen is hitting the ceiling of the craft because they were turned upwards.

02:31:03.000 Remember, Bob said they were not pointed like this, they were pointed to the ceiling of the craft.

02:31:08.000 So you got two of them.

02:31:10.000 It's like wherever the light was going was getting eaten up by that portion of the material.

02:31:16.000 So it's not reflecting all the way.

02:31:19.000 So you have a 52 foot distance, and it's being lost in a maybe seven, eight foot diameter environment.

02:31:28.000 Area where the light is.

02:31:29.000 And we're like, why is that happening?

02:31:31.000 But that's how it does.

02:31:34.000 That's the reality.

02:31:35.000 He could not have known that.

02:31:38.000 If he's trying to make that up, Anybody who's inventing a story says there's two industrial light with four bright halogen spots in there, a liar would not say it was really dark in there.

02:31:56.000 You don't know that.

02:31:57.000 You have to build it.

02:31:58.000 Right.

02:31:59.000 So to me, that was a physicality of being inside the craft that made me go, Lazar cannot have known that if he was making that up.

02:32:09.000 You wouldn't know it until you experiment.

02:32:10.000 Exactly.

02:32:11.000 So I'm like, unless Bob.

02:32:11.000 Right.

02:32:13.000 Back then, he decided to go in his garage, build himself a fake dome, which I don't think you did.

02:32:21.000 I'm like, how would he have known that?

02:32:24.000 We didn't expect that.

02:32:25.000 We were struggling with why it's so dark in there.

02:32:28.000 And you make films.

02:32:29.000 So you're used to using lighting.

02:32:31.000 Exactly.

02:32:31.000 And Chris was like, dude, this thing is just eating up the light.

02:32:35.000 And I'm like, Bob kept saying, it's so dark in there.

02:32:40.000 And it just, how do you, how do you, how is that possible?

02:32:44.000 What were the other things?

02:32:45.000 The other one, I laugh about this with Bob all the time.

02:32:48.000 It's about the flag on the craft.

02:32:51.000 You could have seen it.

02:32:52.000 I don't remember.

02:32:53.000 So, when he walked into the hangar the very first time, he saw the very first time.

02:33:00.000 The backwards flag.

02:33:01.000 He saw the craft and he saw the American, a reversed American flag sticker on the craft.

02:33:06.000 I wonder why it was reversed.

02:33:08.000 I'll get to that in a sec.

02:33:09.000 I think I know.

02:33:10.000 But whatever.

02:33:12.000 I'll say what I think.

02:33:13.000 And there's a lot of stuff.

02:33:16.000 I researched a lot of stuff on Bob Lazar before I did this, and there's a lot of bad information out there.

02:33:21.000 So, I really tell people if you really want to see what he saw, don't go read what's out there.

02:33:26.000 Check this out because Bob actually vetted everything.

02:33:29.000 So, it's not the wrong information to read.

02:33:31.000 But anyway, there's a lot of detractors saying there's no way Lazar could have seen that flag.

02:33:37.000 If the craft was that size and it was on the craft shell, there's no way the angle, he's five something, he wouldn't have been able to see it.

02:33:45.000 So, we built it.

02:33:46.000 We built a 52 foot diameter craft.

02:33:49.000 We put it in the hangar, it's there.

02:33:51.000 And my team, Chris, gives me the goggles, the ones I made you try on.

02:33:56.000 And it was the very first time I go in there.

02:33:59.000 And I know the craft is there.

02:34:01.000 So I put them on.

02:34:02.000 And now they're hoping, because they're there with notes, they're hoping I'm giving them all the notes.

02:34:08.000 Oh, no, that's not good.

02:34:09.000 That's not good.

02:34:10.000 And the first thing I did is I looked to my right, I'm looking at the craft.

02:34:14.000 And I asked Chris to put me at five foot 10, which is your height.

02:34:19.000 So I said, at five, 10, I'm Bob's height with the goggles.

02:34:22.000 I want to see.

02:34:24.000 And the first thing I said is, oh, there it is.

02:34:27.000 And they're like, there what is?

02:34:30.000 I said, the flag.

02:34:31.000 And they thought I was pointing at a flag on a wall.

02:34:34.000 And they're like, there's no flag in the hangar.

02:34:36.000 I said, no, on the craft.

02:34:38.000 And they're like, yeah.

02:34:40.000 I said, you can clearly see it.

02:34:42.000 It was clear.

02:34:44.000 That was something that also made me go, yeah, this is it.

02:34:48.000 This is the real size.

02:34:50.000 So, had Bob Lazar not actually seen that, the majority of the detractors out there kept saying there's no way at that angle a human eye could see a sticker on the top of the craft, which is on the top shell.

02:35:06.000 But you can, it's as clear as day.

02:35:09.000 So, those were two things that I considered to be like, you know, it's there.

02:35:16.000 So, I know to maybe some people that's not a lot.

02:35:20.000 But as a person like I am, who's very technical, I'm very, I'm super difficult.

02:35:26.000 It took a long time to do this because I'm a perfectionist and I wanted to make sure it was accurate to what he saw.

02:35:33.000 I look at stuff like that because I analyze everything like that.

02:35:39.000 And I analyze this story inside out.

02:35:41.000 And if you couldn't see the flag from that position, it would be a red flag.

02:35:46.000 Yeah, that would have been a red flag for me.

02:35:47.000 I would have been like, wait, you can't see it, but you can.

02:35:51.000 So, you can't put enough of a value on little details like that because he didn't say this in 2026.

02:36:00.000 He said this in 1989.

02:36:02.000 Right.

02:36:04.000 Why do you think the flag was reversed?

02:36:04.000 Why?

02:36:07.000 In American flag use law, the only thing we were able to ascertain is the fact that on military or on vehicles, anything military on a uniform, if ever you see an American flag on your right shoulder, It's reversed because it's how the wind is blowing the flag.

02:36:28.000 On your left side, it's like the flag is because the wind is blowing this way.

02:36:33.000 If you look at vehicles, let's say a Greyhound bus, they have American flags on each side and they have a normal one on the left side and a reversed one on the right side because it's the right side of the vehicle.

02:36:46.000 So it's blowing the flag that way.

02:36:50.000 So the reversed American flag is an actual.

02:36:56.000 It's the law of how to use the flag in the United States military or on vehicles.

02:37:01.000 And it has to be like that on the right side.

02:37:04.000 So to say, is that the right side of the craft?

02:37:10.000 Yeah, it must be.

02:37:10.000 It must be because if you go into the craft, the seats, when you go into the craft, I can't wait for you to go in the craft.

02:37:18.000 When you go inside, the seats are facing the right side, meaning the hatch is the right side of the craft.

02:37:27.000 It's the only thing that came to mind.

02:37:30.000 I mean, is that what they did at S4? 0.99

02:37:32.000 They fucking put a sticker on it. 0.94

02:37:35.000 I mean, it's the only logical thing we could think of, that's why it was there. 0.99

02:37:41.000 I don't know.

02:37:42.000 I'm, you know, my other, because if it was an American flat, if it was just for identifying this as America, why would you reverse it?

02:37:54.000 Right.

02:37:54.000 Right?

02:37:55.000 You're reversing it because it's indicating the direction in which it travels.

02:37:59.000 Exactly.

02:38:00.000 Wow.

02:38:02.000 That's just an interesting.

02:38:03.000 Right?

02:38:03.000 Yeah.

02:38:04.000 It's all interesting.

02:38:05.000 The goggles is a trip.

02:38:07.000 Right.

02:38:08.000 When I put on the 3D AR goggles and you, VR goggles rather, and you stand in that warehouse, that hanger, and look at it, it's very strange.

02:38:19.000 It feels weird.

02:38:20.000 That's exactly like it was.

02:38:22.000 It feels very weird.

02:38:23.000 It feels very weird.

02:38:24.000 Because, I mean, I'm only imagining what it's like to actually be you in 1988 and be standing there.

02:38:30.000 When you put the goggles on, that's exactly how it was.

02:38:33.000 What did Dennis say when you first saw it?

02:38:35.000 He was like, huh?

02:38:37.000 No, Dennis was hardcore.

02:38:40.000 Yeah.

02:38:41.000 He was, yeah, he was here.

02:38:42.000 Look at that.

02:38:43.000 You know, come back in here.

02:38:45.000 I mean, there was no reaction.

02:38:47.000 Barry, on the other hand, was out of his mind.

02:38:50.000 He couldn't wait to show me stuff.

02:38:52.000 And, you know, he said, check this out.

02:38:54.000 Oh my God, that was that awesome.

02:38:55.000 You know, but Dennis was, it was like a hardcore, you know, military guy.

02:39:02.000 Yeah.

02:39:04.000 How much of a view did you get of the other crafts?

02:39:06.000 Because it's one of the things in the film, you only see like hints of them.

02:39:10.000 That was it.

02:39:11.000 That's it.

02:39:12.000 What you saw in the film is exactly what it was.

02:39:14.000 It was just a passing thing.

02:39:16.000 And as I was walking out there, going, wow, there's more.

02:39:21.000 Everything looks different.

02:39:23.000 And other than the first two hangars, I really couldn't tell what was passed out there.

02:39:29.000 But there were other hangars and there were things inside them.

02:39:32.000 But that's what I was seeing.

02:39:33.000 It's also interesting that at the time in 1988, this site was not even covered.

02:39:37.000 Confirmed.

02:39:38.000 This was like for you to have to know about this and know the exact location of it is kind of strange.

02:39:44.000 Right.

02:39:44.000 Now, Luigi did that.

02:39:46.000 I mean, I gave him the general idea.

02:39:48.000 I said, you know, I know what time I got out there and I could see Papoose Lake and behind me.

02:39:56.000 He pulled up a lot of stuff from there.

02:39:58.000 But another interesting thing he pulled up was there was an old silver mine exactly there in the exact same place.

02:40:07.000 And I wonder if they used that as it was already drilled.

02:40:12.000 There was already, you know, corridors in there.

02:40:15.000 I actually held this for this show.

02:40:18.000 What I'm about to say is the first time ever.

02:40:21.000 It didn't make it in my film.

02:40:22.000 I wish it did, but it didn't make it in the film.

02:40:25.000 Veronica on our team, she's my sister.

02:40:29.000 She's like my right hand.

02:40:30.000 And if I didn't have her, I wouldn't be here right now.

02:40:33.000 She found this.

02:40:35.000 And at a certain point, we were looking at the maps out there.

02:40:39.000 And you'll see in my film that Gene Huff sent us some U.S. Department of the Interior official maps.

02:40:45.000 Of that environment at the Groom Lake, Papoose Lake.

02:40:49.000 But we weren't satisfied.

02:40:50.000 We wanted to go deeper.

02:40:52.000 We said there's got to be more.

02:40:53.000 And there's one map that is a publicly available map.

02:41:00.000 It's super not easy to find, by the way, that is in the hands of the U.S. Department of the Interior.

02:41:07.000 I could get it to you if you want.

02:41:09.000 I can email it to you.

02:41:10.000 That map is the oldest map of Papoose Lake known in the hands of the government that is public domain.

02:41:19.000 That map, and everybody's going to be listening to this, clearly shows a road that goes right into where S4 was.

02:41:31.000 It doesn't show a road near it, it shows a road going right in the mountain.

02:41:38.000 And they removed it.

02:41:41.000 Map is from 1941.

02:41:44.000 Okay?

02:41:45.000 Right after that, the map is 1950 and 1952, and those roads were removed.

02:41:52.000 But the oldest map we ever found is going to be available.

02:41:56.000 We're going to post it on our website, it's going to be everywhere.

02:42:00.000 It shows clear as day a road that goes right into the mountain, exactly where Bob Lazar said S4 was.

02:42:09.000 So, do you think that that was the road to the silver mine initially?

02:42:12.000 Yes.

02:42:12.000 I believe that, yeah.

02:42:14.000 It makes sense that they would use an existing facility and just enlarge it instead of start from nothing.

02:42:19.000 Right, of course.

02:42:20.000 Especially if it's abandoned.

02:42:21.000 Yeah.

02:42:22.000 And it also makes sense that if Roswell was real and if they really did find a crashed UFO in 1947. 0.99

02:42:31.000 Like in the 1950s, they'd be like, let's get rid of this fucking road. 0.98

02:42:35.000 Right? 0.99

02:42:35.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:42:36.000 If we're putting this out there, if we're building this facility out there, and if they did have it, that also makes sense that they've worked on this for decades.

02:42:43.000 You come along in 1988, they've got this happening in the 1950s, and it's still there.

02:42:48.000 Yeah.

02:42:49.000 Yeah.

02:42:50.000 I think what happened is when the CIA took over, because CIA is the one who took over Area 51, they're the ones at Area 51.

02:42:58.000 I think what happened is as they took over, they just removed the road.

02:43:02.000 It wasn't even because there was a flying saucer there.

02:43:06.000 I just think they got in there, took control of that terrain, that whole landscape, and said, remove it off the maps because it's there prior to them taking ownership of that land.

02:43:18.000 So, I mean, it's clear that there was a road there, and then they came in, CIA said, take it out.

02:43:28.000 Already an installation, not it wasn't an installation, but they probably had a tunnel in there already because they were it was a mine, so it was an easier way to build a big facility in the side of the hill.

02:43:39.000 Makes sense, it does make sense.

02:43:41.000 And then there's also the images that you got of what looks like the hangar bay doors, right?

02:43:46.000 That are camouflaged.

02:43:48.000 I have to say, that got to go again, yeah.

02:43:51.000 Sorry, no worries.

02:43:52.000 That's all good.

02:43:53.000 That's a prostate problem, technology will fix that.

02:43:59.000 It'll remove your prostate. 1.00

02:44:01.000 Turn you into a fucking alien. 0.99

02:44:04.000 So, that image that you got of the, unfortunately, it's kind of blurry, but you do see something that looks very similar to what you'd expect to be camouflaged garage bay doors. 0.99

02:44:18.000 I got contacted by a guy called Scott Mitchell, and I was getting contacted by everybody, Joe.

02:44:25.000 Everybody was trying to get in and find, getting to make me work with them or use something they found.

02:44:30.000 So, I was getting.

02:44:31.000 I was ignoring 99% of people's, like, it's getting tiring.

02:44:36.000 Everybody's like, you got to listen to me.

02:44:38.000 I know stuff about that.

02:44:38.000 And I'm like, whatever.

02:44:39.000 I'm working with Bob Lazar.

02:44:41.000 I have enough right now.

02:44:43.000 But this guy, we had built the base, and I knew exactly where it was.

02:44:48.000 I knew exactly the layout.

02:44:49.000 And this guy, he not only contacted me, but he sent me an image that he had drawn.

02:44:55.000 He didn't want to send me what he had found, but he says, here it is.

02:44:59.000 This is where the doors are, and this is exactly where they point to.

02:45:03.000 I looked at the image and I said, Not bad.

02:45:07.000 I mean, he really nailed it in the image.

02:45:09.000 And I thought, Okay.

02:45:11.000 At first, I thought somebody on my team leaked something we had.

02:45:15.000 To be honest, I'm like, Oh, who did that?

02:45:18.000 Who set out one of our renders to somebody?

02:45:21.000 Because that's what I thought.

02:45:22.000 And they're like, No, no, no.

02:45:23.000 This is what.

02:45:24.000 So I talked to this guy, and he's really, really good at researching, and he ended up becoming probably one of the best.

02:45:36.000 I've ever, like, he's one of the best I've ever seen.

02:45:38.000 His name is Scott Mitchell.

02:45:39.000 And he says there are pictures that were taken in 2020.

02:45:43.000 And ironically, those pictures were taken on December 25th, 2020, which is Christmas Day in the middle of COVID, which means the base might have been shut down.

02:45:54.000 If you think about that, you know what I mean?

02:45:56.000 Like, it's COVID, it's like in the heat of it.

02:45:58.000 Plus, it's the 25th of December.

02:46:01.000 So there's probably nothing going on there.

02:46:03.000 And this private pilot in his small Cessna requested access inside the perimeter.

02:46:10.000 And they granted him permission.

02:46:13.000 And he had a big Nikon camera on board with a big telescopic zoom.

02:46:18.000 And he took a shit ton of pictures.

02:46:19.000 And they're amazing.

02:46:20.000 They're all public, they're all available.

02:46:22.000 You can download them.

02:46:23.000 And there's these pictures of Papoose Lake and the hill.

02:46:27.000 But they were being used on the internet for a long time.

02:46:30.000 Everybody was like, see, Bob Lazar is a fraud.

02:46:32.000 It's not real.

02:46:33.000 There's nothing there.

02:46:34.000 Well, of course, you can't see it.

02:46:37.000 It's, first of all, 17 miles away.

02:46:39.000 And secondly, they're not designed for you to see it.

02:46:42.000 And that, Also, let's talk about something that Bob was talking about in 1988.

02:46:47.000 The picture was taken in 2020.

02:46:49.000 I mean, there could be a different landscape now.

02:46:52.000 Anyway, so he said, Look, this image, if you change the contrast, you got to keep the original, but just move and try to extract data from your image.

02:47:05.000 Anybody who knows how to do that with photography, you can do that.

02:47:09.000 And he pulls out these geometric shapes.

02:47:14.000 You could see them, they're like little.

02:47:16.000 They look like rectangles.

02:47:18.000 And I thought, what if this is not real?

02:47:22.000 I was super skeptical.

02:47:24.000 I'll be honest with you.

02:47:25.000 We're talking about the picture with the doors on the hangar doors, the one from Scott Mitchell, the one that we have in the film.

02:47:32.000 Oh, right, right.

02:47:35.000 And so I didn't believe it.

02:47:36.000 I thought, there's no way.

02:47:38.000 I go, there's no way this is real.

02:47:40.000 I don't believe it.

02:47:40.000 So Scott was really cool.

02:47:42.000 He said, look, man, I understand you're skeptical.

02:47:45.000 I get it.

02:47:46.000 I want you to.

02:47:47.000 Do me a favor, go online, search it yourself.

02:47:51.000 I won't even tell you where it is.

02:47:52.000 I'll just tell you who took the pictures.

02:47:57.000 The only thing he gave us is the picture number is 0501.

02:48:00.000 That's what the picture number is.

02:48:02.000 He goes, If you find it, have whoever on your team play around with it until you see it.

02:48:07.000 That was fair because I said, Okay.

02:48:09.000 Because I mean, if it's out there, there's two different places it was online.

02:48:15.000 And the one place we got it from was the source of it.

02:48:20.000 Okay, was the from the photographer the guy himself.

02:48:24.000 We take it.

02:48:25.000 I had three different people on my team.

02:48:27.000 Everybody's really good at all this stuff on my team.

02:48:30.000 So I said, guys, this is what we need to see.

02:48:33.000 If you guys could pull it up, I'm not going to be as skeptical.

02:48:38.000 Everybody got it almost in the same time.

02:48:40.000 They were playing around, and eventually, the easiest software we used to get that detail out was DaVinci Resolve.

02:48:48.000 And with DaVinci, it's a faster process than if you're messing around with Photoshop or whatever.

02:48:54.000 And it came, and I was like, oh my God.

02:48:58.000 It's really there.

02:48:59.000 You could clear.

02:49:00.000 So, what I did is I had them scan the rest of the picture because it's pixels, right?

02:49:05.000 So, I said, let's also see if it's not some pixel pixelation.

02:49:10.000 Is it maybe just what the photo does?

02:49:13.000 Maybe we just got lucky and it looks like that there.

02:49:15.000 Maybe it's going to show something similar elsewhere and it doesn't.

02:49:19.000 And then I said, all right, go get me 0502.

02:49:22.000 I want 0500.

02:49:23.000 I want because the guy kept snapping pictures.

02:49:25.000 I want you to do the same.

02:49:27.000 Like, we went.

02:49:28.000 Really military.

02:49:29.000 Like I said, I want to make sure this is real.

02:49:32.000 I'm not going to put our name on this if it's not.

02:49:35.000 And it ended up being other pictures also show it, by the way, because he went click, click, click.

02:49:40.000 So it's like it's not just that one.

02:49:42.000 That's the clearest one.

02:49:44.000 And so I was at a certain point, I go to Bob's house and I'm sitting there, and the guy calls me.

02:49:52.000 Scott Mitchell calls me and he has no idea I'm with Bob Lazar.

02:49:57.000 So I pick up, it's a video call, and he goes, Hey man, what's going on?

02:50:00.000 I said, Well, look.

02:50:01.000 I said, look who I'm with.

02:50:02.000 And he just like exploded because he was like, oh my God, you're with Bob.

02:50:06.000 And I said, show him.

02:50:07.000 And so Bob was there and we showed it.

02:50:10.000 We ended up transferring the call on a Zoom call and he showed it.

02:50:14.000 And you said, yeah.

02:50:16.000 Like I remember you going, yeah, that's it.

02:50:18.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:50:19.000 What did that look like to you when you saw those images?

02:50:21.000 Yeah, that was awesome.

02:50:22.000 Yeah.

02:50:23.000 It was awesome.

02:50:24.000 What was really shocking was the first hangar.

02:50:27.000 The first hangar is bigger.

02:50:28.000 Yeah.

02:50:29.000 Because that was the big hangar.

02:50:29.000 Yeah.

02:50:30.000 Yeah.

02:50:31.000 Because the first hangar is the big hangar and there's a bunch of smaller ones.

02:50:34.000 And I said, Jesus, the first hangar is bigger.

02:50:37.000 You found it.

02:50:38.000 You found it.

02:50:39.000 So, I mean, that was.

02:50:42.000 I just lit up at that point.

02:50:43.000 Yeah.

02:50:44.000 What happens if you look at that site with Google Earth?

02:50:47.000 That is with Google Earth.

02:50:48.000 No, no, that was the picture.

02:50:49.000 But Google Earth.

02:50:51.000 But Google Earth, and I'll tell you something about Google.

02:50:53.000 Yeah, that was the.

02:50:54.000 That wasn't with Google Earth?

02:50:55.000 No, the picture is a real photo.

02:50:58.000 The picture of the hangar doors is a real photo.

02:51:00.000 I said that was Google Earth.

02:51:00.000 Oh, okay.

02:51:01.000 No, no, the picture is a real photo.

02:51:02.000 The Google Earth, though, you see that in the film.

02:51:05.000 Yeah.

02:51:07.000 I can't make this up.

02:51:08.000 I didn't want to put anything in the film.

02:51:10.000 That was one of my things.

02:51:11.000 I didn't want to put anything in the film that would make me, the whole team, or even Bob look like we're trying to like MacGyver something in there.

02:51:21.000 It has to be you go look for it yourself.

02:51:24.000 It's public.

02:51:25.000 If you don't believe it, go check it out yourself.

02:51:30.000 That's the only thing we allowed in there.

02:51:32.000 And when you go on Papoose Lake on June 20, so June 22nd of 2024.

02:51:42.000 June of 2024.

02:51:45.000 Google Earth changed.

02:51:48.000 You're going to be right over Papoose Lake.

02:51:50.000 If you zoom in, you're not going to notice it because it's kind of a yellowish tint to the image.

02:51:58.000 And I remember going, why is it so yellow?

02:52:00.000 I mean, I'd been there so many times. 0.97

02:52:02.000 I was like, why the fuck is it turned so yellow? 0.97

02:52:05.000 And I'm like, I'm zooming out and I'm like, why did they fuck it up? 0.98

02:52:09.000 I thought they fucking ruined everything. 0.90

02:52:11.000 It's all yellow. 0.96

02:52:13.000 And as I go further, you see this box.

02:52:16.000 That is like right over Papoose.

02:52:19.000 So I'm like, what is that?

02:52:21.000 And I put my mouse over it, and wherever you're in the box, it's June 22nd, 2024.

02:52:29.000 And as soon as you put your mouse outside of the box, well, it's an older date.

02:52:35.000 And I thought, oh, they just did that.

02:52:40.000 And so I think what they thought they were going to do is that new filter right over Papoose Lake removes every possible detail.

02:52:50.000 On the terrain, the landscape where the brushes are and the Joshua trees are, it really, really removes all that.

02:52:57.000 It blurs everything out.

02:52:59.000 But it makes, they made a mistake.

02:53:01.000 They made a huge error.

02:53:03.000 I believe so.

02:53:04.000 And I think if they're listening, they're going to go, yeah, our bad to the DOD because you see all the tracks on the lake.

02:53:13.000 If for some reason that filter accentuates the tracks on Papoose Lake and removes The landscape brushes.

02:53:23.000 I don't know why it just did that.

02:53:26.000 And I was like, holy shit, you see all these tracks.

02:53:30.000 What it looks like is they're trying to purposely obscure the area. 0.93

02:53:32.000 Yes.

02:53:33.000 And the fact that it's in a very clear box.

02:53:36.000 Yeah.

02:53:36.000 And you talked about that in the film.

02:53:38.000 It's kind of bonkers.

02:53:38.000 Yeah.

02:53:39.000 And what's really no reason.

02:53:41.000 There's no reason to pick one little square box out of why that nobody goes to.

02:53:47.000 Yeah.

02:53:47.000 So try to obscure it.

02:53:47.000 Right.

02:53:47.000 Yeah.

02:53:49.000 Yeah.

02:53:50.000 And so I thought, geez, we got to put this in there.

02:53:52.000 I mean, it's so cool.

02:53:54.000 Right.

02:53:55.000 It's all very compelling.

02:53:58.000 I think we should wrap this up.

02:53:59.000 But the film's excellent.

02:54:01.000 Congratulations.

02:54:01.000 Thank you.

02:54:02.000 You could tell it took a tremendous amount of effort.

02:54:05.000 And I could tell by watching you watch it when we watched it together that it had an insane impact on you.

02:54:11.000 And you had already seen it before.

02:54:13.000 I saw it with you.

02:54:14.000 So you're just seeing it again.

02:54:16.000 It's just like, it's bonkers.

02:54:18.000 Yeah, it really affected me.

02:54:21.000 And is there anything else you want to say?

02:54:25.000 There's a couple things I want to bring up.

02:54:27.000 Okay.

02:54:28.000 You know, yeah.

02:54:30.000 Just because I've heard stuff Luigi has told me, people think that I make millions of dollars off of this stuff.

02:54:38.000 Oh, yeah.

02:54:38.000 And I don't.

02:54:40.000 I would love to sign on to the millions of dollars program.

02:54:44.000 You know, Jeremy made his movie, and I didn't get a cent from Jeremy's movie.

02:54:50.000 I said, anything you make, give to George.

02:54:52.000 Yeah.

02:54:53.000 You know, Luigi has spent millions of dollars of his own money, literally, right?

02:54:59.000 Literally.

02:55:00.000 You know, making this stuff.

02:55:01.000 And I can't see how he's ever going to make the money back if he does.

02:55:06.000 I hope so.

02:55:06.000 That's awesome.

02:55:07.000 I drive a 1980 something.

02:55:12.000 Not a 1980.

02:55:13.000 You drive a.

02:55:14.000 No, 2000.

02:55:16.000 No, a 2018 Chevy Bolt electric car.

02:55:20.000 I mean, it's a car you'd buy for your teenage daughter.

02:55:23.000 It's embarrassing to drive.

02:55:24.000 It cost me $18,000.

02:55:26.000 Yeah.

02:55:27.000 You know, my house on the 10 acres cost $450,000.

02:55:30.000 And, you know, back when I got it, I mean, I work six to seven days a week at United Nuclear, my business.

02:55:40.000 I mean, if there's anyone that wants to give me millions of dollars, please contact me immediately because I would like to retire.

02:55:50.000 But no, I don't make millions of dollars off this stuff.

02:55:53.000 And my wife and I do fine.

02:55:58.000 Food are in our greenhouse, and we live in our little place up in the mountains, and that's it.

02:56:03.000 But I, you know, this is Luigi's thing.

02:56:07.000 That's why he's here.

02:56:08.000 I think the film's going to be very successful, and I think you're probably going to make money off of it.

02:56:12.000 At least I'm hoping.

02:56:13.000 I hope he'll make money off of it.

02:56:15.000 Well, you'll make money off of it.

02:56:17.000 You know, thank you, Joe.

02:56:19.000 I think we should wrap it up.

02:56:20.000 Thank you very much, Luigi.

02:56:22.000 You knocked it out of the park.

02:56:22.000 Thank you.

02:56:23.000 It's fantastic.

02:56:23.000 Thank you.

02:56:24.000 Bob, great to see you again, as always.

02:56:26.000 I'm sorry I had to pee so much.

02:56:28.000 That's okay.

02:56:29.000 It's under.

02:56:31.000 It's understandable.

02:56:32.000 It's understandable.

02:56:33.000 And again, the film, let's show it on the screen, Jamie, so people can know where they can see it, when it's available.

02:56:41.000 Yeah, it's available actually as of right now.

02:56:45.000 Let's play the trailer.

02:56:46.000 We'll end it with S4, The Bob Lazar Story.

02:56:50.000 We'll end it with a trailer. 0.93

02:56:53.000 It's on Amazon, and we are not alone.

02:56:55.000 We are not alone, right?

02:56:56.000 Yeah.

02:57:16.000 Evidence now exists which proves that there is life elsewhere, and at least one form of that life has been here.

02:57:23.000 As of 1989, that evidence was in the custody of the United States government.

02:57:30.000 Between December of 1988 and April of 1989, I worked as a senior staff physicist in what has to be the most secret project in history.

02:57:40.000 My job in this program was to be part of a back engineering team.

02:57:46.000 This particular disk appeared to be in excellent condition.

02:57:49.000 And because of its sleek appearance, I nicknamed it the Sport Model.

02:57:55.000 The goal in this program was to see if the technology of the disc could be duplicated with earth materials.

02:58:02.000 To start up the reactor, of course, we need some element 115.

02:58:07.000 In fact, you need 223 grams machined into a wedge like this.

02:58:12.000 The program out at S4 consisted of three projects Project Galileo, Project Sidekick, and Project Looking Glass.

02:58:20.000 The file on top was Project Galileo.

02:58:23.000 And as it turned out, that's the project that I was part of.

02:58:27.000 And that clearly referred to reverse engineering a recovered alien spacecraft.

02:58:38.000 It just cannot be a secret from anyone, not just the American people, but the rest of the world.

02:58:48.000 All this stuff is something that happened to him, it's not who he is.

02:58:55.000 They're doing everything they can.

02:58:56.000 can to keep this information secret.

02:59:02.000 That's empirical evidence.

02:59:04.000 I saw Kraft to do that thanks to him.

02:59:09.000 Now this story spills and the world changed.

The Joe Rogan Experience - April 03, 2026

Joe Rogan Experience #2479 - Bob Lazar & Luigi Vendittelli

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript