The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2496 - Julia Mossbridge

00:00:02.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:09.000 Hello, Julia.

00:00:14.000 Pleasure to meet you.

00:00:16.000 Yeah, I'm very excited.

00:00:17.000 So, you said you had questions for me.

00:00:19.000 We can start with your questions.

00:00:20.000 Excellent.

00:00:22.000 First of all, tell everybody what you do.

00:00:23.000 Okay, let me just change the angle of this.

00:00:25.000 Just so folks just tuning in right now are like, who is this young lady?

00:00:30.000 What do you mean?

00:00:30.000 Thank you.

00:00:31.000 I'm a year younger than you.

00:00:32.000 There you go.

00:00:33.000 Then you're young.

00:00:35.000 Nice.

00:00:37.000 What do I do?

00:00:40.000 I was trained as a scientist in cognitive neuroscience and computer science, and did some AI stuff, did some stuff with the human brain in terms of trying to understand how time works in the human brain.

00:00:52.000 And then I got really interested in how funky time works in the human brain, like precognition, which is, of course, predicting future events in ways that we don't normally think about.

00:01:03.000 That's how I found out about it.

00:01:04.000 That's you, is the Popular Mechanics article.

00:01:06.000 Yeah.

00:01:06.000 Yeah, I believe so.

00:01:07.000 And then a bunch of other stuff that I looked at.

00:01:09.000 And then a bunch of other stuff.

00:01:10.000 And then I got interested in just the idea of what we call exceptional human performance.

00:01:10.000 Yeah.

00:01:15.000 So I actually don't think it's that exceptional.

00:01:17.000 I think people have these capacities and they've been dampened down and they're in us and they can be developed.

00:01:24.000 And some people have them just sort of naturally.

00:01:27.000 I'm a person who has some of them just naturally, not all of them.

00:01:30.000 But there are people all over who have these different gifts.

00:01:33.000 And how does that work?

00:01:34.000 And so that became a question that was interesting to me.

00:01:36.000 Well, it's always interesting when it's This question is asked by an actual scientist.

00:01:42.000 So you approach it by let's try to gather data.

00:01:45.000 Let's try to find out what we can actually show.

00:01:47.000 Because so many people have feelings that there's something else.

00:01:52.000 Like there's you have intuition, you have some sort of pre knowledge of events, and some feeling of something.

00:01:59.000 You're thinking of someone and they call you.

00:02:01.000 Is that real?

00:02:03.000 That kind of stuff has always puzzled people.

00:02:06.000 So it's always fascinating when someone like yourself.

00:02:09.000 Actually, it spends a lot of time studying it and trying to gather data and trying to show what's real and what's not and what you can actually show.

00:02:17.000 I agree, it's fascinating.

00:02:19.000 I'm not sure it matters.

00:02:20.000 So, I mean, my experience has been that sort of regardless of how much time I spend studying it and how much I see it and how much I can test different controls to make sure it's not this, that, or the other thing and that it really is getting information from the future or it really is telepathy.

00:02:39.000 Still, kind of don't in the science world tend to just ignore it.

00:02:44.000 Or it actually is actively suppressed.

00:02:46.000 I mean, there's some papers that I've published that just won't get listed in Google Scholar, even though they're in peer reviewed journals with other articles that do get listed in Google Scholar.

00:02:55.000 So there's it's frustrating, and who cares because it's just an academic complaining.

00:03:00.000 But I'm also not an academic, I also want to build things, I'm into making stuff.

00:03:05.000 So I got my PhD at these tier one research institutions like Northwestern, got my master's at UCA San Francisco.

00:03:12.000 I did my postdoc at Northwestern.

00:03:14.000 So, fancy dancy institutions.

00:03:17.000 So, I learned a lot about how to think and how to write and how to do these kinds of experiments.

00:03:22.000 And I know what I'm seeing.

00:03:24.000 And other people who study the same stuff keep seeing it.

00:03:24.000 And I keep seeing it.

00:03:28.000 But it is inside of me, or there's something inside of me that wants to create things with this.

00:03:35.000 Okay, so this is happening.

00:03:37.000 People have these capacities.

00:03:39.000 They're actually useful.

00:03:40.000 What can we do with them?

00:03:41.000 And it turns out you can do a lot.

00:03:46.000 With them, if you feel like you are allowed to have them, if it doesn't feel like it's verboten, if it doesn't feel like shameful, which is part of the cultural piece. 0.98

00:03:55.000 Or foolish. 0.97

00:03:56.000 Or foolish, which is part of the questions I wanted to ask you. 0.99

00:03:58.000 Okay. 0.90

00:04:00.000 So what I notice when you talk with people is you're like, you seem like a tough guy, but you're really sensitive, like you're an incredible, obviously an incredible listener.

00:04:12.000 And you learn all these things and you're putting together, just this is my impression, you're putting together a kind of a map of the world, like a map of knowledge of the world through all these different people's eyes.

00:04:28.000 And my question for you is, how do you see culture shifting?

00:04:33.000 Because I think you're really sensitive to it and I think you're kind of like one of these signal fish that are at the.

00:04:39.000 You notice what's happening in the environment and you're gonna guide a school of fish accordingly.

00:04:46.000 So do you think that the culture is shifting towards Sort of better use of these I guess exceptional or these natural capacities that we already have, or do you think that we're shifting away from it and we're gonna run away in fear?

00:05:06.000 That's a good question.

00:05:07.000 Okay.

00:05:08.000 So I think that because of conversations like the ones that you've had and the ones that I've had, the ones that are available online, I think people get a much deeper understanding of so many different topics and so many different things than has ever been available through whatever you want to call the mainstream media.

00:05:32.000 And when you have these inherent prejudices in higher learning, Whether it's people that don't want to be foolish, so they don't want to entertain certain notions,

00:05:44.000 or they don't want to accept certain things because it goes against things that they've taught and things they wrote about, we have a problem of ego and ego becoming a wall to gathering more information or getting a better detailed map of the landscape.

00:06:03.000 I think there's way more people that are pondering these ideas.

00:06:10.000 And having these conversations and thinking about these things than has ever been before.

00:06:15.000 And I think that's one of the really beautiful things about the internet.

00:06:20.000 The internet has made much more information available, and many more people are thinking about these things in ways that, you know, if you were in an environment where your career depended upon you following certain lines and certain narratives, you wouldn't pursue that because that would be detrimental.

00:06:41.000 To your own personal interest. 0.99

00:06:44.000 Like, if you wanted to get ahead in academia and all of a sudden you're talking about psychics and premonition, and people are like, oh, Julia's a fucking loon. 0.99

00:06:54.000 But you're courageous and you see value in these things. 0.95

00:06:59.000 And because you can come on here and talk about it, instead of just addressing a class or selling a book that's going to reach a few thousand people, we can have a conversation where 10 million people are going to listen.

00:07:12.000 And so then those 10 million people are going to go to work and they're going to tell their friends at work, like, hey, there's just, you know, you know how that feeling that you get where sometimes you know something's going to happen and it happens?

00:07:22.000 Like, that might be real.

00:07:24.000 And there was this lady, she was on the Joe Rogan podcast and she was talking. 0.96

00:07:28.000 And so that opens up people to this idea that you don't have to worry about being a fool because that's what a lot of people are worried about. 0.81

00:07:39.000 It was a big hurdle talking about aliens.

00:07:43.000 UFOs. 0.98

00:07:44.000 Like all my life, all my life, I've always been fascinated by UFOs and aliens, but I don't mind being a fool.

00:07:51.000 Like I was fascinated by Bigfoot forever.

00:07:54.000 Kind of abandoned that for the most part.

00:07:56.000 But I like weird stuff.

00:07:59.000 I'm interested in it.

00:08:00.000 I'm not a person that needs to be taken seriously.

00:08:03.000 I'm literally a comedian.

00:08:03.000 It's not my job.

00:08:05.000 You can make fun of me, I'll make fun of me.

00:08:07.000 It's fine.

00:08:09.000 My future doesn't rely on people taking me seriously.

00:08:14.000 I think having that ability to have conversations about all kinds of different things has really changed the way the entire world is discussing just reality.

00:08:29.000 Like everything about reality, from quantum computing to alien life to international politics to the way human beings misrepresent each other purposely for their own gains, like what is all this?

00:08:46.000 Like, and why has it taken so long to have so many discussions about this?

00:08:52.000 So I think that's if I have a purpose in this world, it's like I'm an antenna for that.

00:08:59.000 Yeah, I'm just clapping because it's such a great purpose. 0.96

00:09:02.000 Because, you know, the reason I fell in love with science was it's about discovery, it's about not knowing, it's about being foolish.

00:09:11.000 I had this, I was just thinking today, I had this amazing high school biology teacher who had us go outside and he gave us these little note cards.

00:09:20.000 And he said, on one side of the note card, I want you to write a question about your environment.

00:09:24.000 Look around, you know, the plants or whatever, pick something, the dirt, whatever, and write a question you think Einstein would ask about this.

00:09:31.000 And then he said, Okay, now flip it over, and I want you to write a question that, like, a two year old would ask if a two year old could, you know, write.

00:09:38.000 And my favorite slide was the two year old.

00:09:40.000 And at the end, he said, Now, Einstein was more like the two year old.

00:09:44.000 He said, Einstein was full of wonder and confusion and uncertainty.

00:09:50.000 And he just asked questions and imagined things.

00:09:53.000 And that's how I want you all to learn to be.

00:09:55.000 And I was just like, Yes.

00:09:57.000 That's a good teacher.

00:09:58.000 That's an amazing teacher.

00:10:01.000 And so then I went to graduate school and I went in the world of academia, and I was like, There's all this pressure to, you know, you write your grant after you've done about three quarters of the work so that as soon as you get the grant, then you can publish the papers that go with the grant.

00:10:17.000 So you're not really discovering anything.

00:10:18.000 You're kind of talking about, here's what I already know, but I'm acting like I haven't looked at it yet.

00:10:22.000 And there's pressure to follow, as you said, follow the line of thinking for both funding and for your career.

00:10:31.000 And, you know, I was told very nicely by wonderful people who wanted to support me.

00:10:38.000 That if I took the stuff about psychic stuff off my resume, I would have a perfectly good resume for academia.

00:10:43.000 And I was like, Are you crazy?

00:10:45.000 This is the stuff that's actually interesting. 0.63

00:10:47.000 Why would I want to take it off?

00:10:49.000 But that's what took me away from academia and made me realize I had to put one foot in building things. 0.98

00:10:54.000 I could leave a foot in academia, but I had to build shit because academia is so slow. 0.96

00:11:00.000 They can learn something, and then 10 years later, they're like, Do you think it's true? 0.99

00:11:04.000 And then 20 years later, they're like, Maybe we can make something with it.

00:11:07.000 And it's like, But at the same time, you have to be careful.

00:11:11.000 You don't get to just say, well, I just know people are psychic and therefore, you know, screw it.

00:11:18.000 So, yeah, there's this dance.

00:11:20.000 There's this dance there. 0.99

00:11:21.000 But when you were saying this thing about people afraid to be foolish, I wonder how much it helps me to come from a family of very foolish, eccentric people. 0.99

00:11:34.000 I'm sure it helps a lot. 0.99

00:11:35.000 Because I'm not afraid to be foolish. 0.98

00:11:37.000 In fact, I just know that I am. 0.77

00:11:39.000 Well, I think intelligent, kind people don't mind talking to people that say stuff. 0.96

00:11:46.000 Occasionally say foolish things.

00:11:48.000 Well, or things that could be perceived as foolish because they're willing to take chances and look at these obscure topics and strange phenomena and just and not worry about the stigma that's attached to these subjects that keeps supposedly intelligent or serious people, people that want to be considered as serious people, from discussing.

00:12:11.000 Well, like when you said the thing about Bigfoot.

00:12:15.000 Yeah.

00:12:15.000 And I laughed a little bit.

00:12:17.000 That was like a reflex laugh from academia.

00:12:20.000 So that's a fun one.

00:12:21.000 Bigfoot's a fun one.

00:12:22.000 It is.

00:12:23.000 And I have friends who study Bigfoot and other cryptids in a scholarly way.

00:12:29.000 And I had to learn not to laugh.

00:12:31.000 It's like we have our little discomfort and then we laugh because, oh, I want to be taken seriously and stuff.

00:12:37.000 But interestingly, the UFO whole world got accepted into the mainstream land of things that possibly exist before the psychic world.

00:12:48.000 But the psychic world has been studied by the intelligence community, et cetera, since openly.

00:12:54.000 Since like the 50s.

00:12:55.000 Right.

00:12:56.000 Whereas the UFO world was supposed to be, oh, we don't care about that.

00:12:59.000 And then only recently has come to the fore.

00:13:01.000 So it's really interesting to see this balance.

00:13:02.000 They're both related and they're both have their own processes of disclosure.

00:13:07.000 But it's just interesting.

00:13:09.000 Culturally, it's interesting to see this instinct to be right, as you called it.

00:13:15.000 And I feel like that's, I was, there's a PBS convention in town right now in the hotel where I'm staying.

00:13:25.000 I got to say, I think that's still largely a very left leaning organization.

00:13:29.000 And I was raised up in a really left leaning household.

00:13:32.000 But the thing that really pisses me off about the left is this wanting to be smart and proving that you're smart.

00:13:42.000 And the thing that pisses me off about the right is wanting to be right.

00:13:46.000 And I feel like both of those things fail.

00:13:49.000 Yes.

00:13:50.000 I mean, neither of them allows us to just discover, okay, what's next?

00:13:54.000 Like, how can we actually solve the problems that are going on instead of just.

00:13:59.000 Wanting our team to win.

00:14:00.000 Yeah.

00:14:01.000 And so it's interesting to me how the cultural change with science also relates to our politics.

00:14:08.000 Yeah.

00:14:09.000 I grew up in a very left leaning household as well.

00:14:11.000 My parents are still very left.

00:14:13.000 And I think that there is a real problem with ideologies where, especially in this country, we're so polarized, we have a right and a left.

00:14:25.000 And I think most people are kind of in the middle somewhere.

00:14:27.000 You know, and I'm certainly in the middle.

00:14:29.000 I'm like middle left.

00:14:31.000 That's where I kind of see myself.

00:14:33.000 But if you like read about me, I'm like far right somehow or another, which is.

00:14:36.000 I know, it's interesting.

00:14:37.000 I'm now independent.

00:14:39.000 I'm officially independent because I'm like, screw it.

00:14:42.000 I don't, I do think most people are in the center.

00:14:42.000 Yeah.

00:14:45.000 And I think we need to get clarity on that.

00:14:50.000 You get to say something that's different from what either side is saying.

00:14:53.000 Yeah.

00:14:53.000 The problem with either side is you have to accept, if you're going to accept, if you're going to join one of their teams, I had a bit about it in my last comedy special that if you're going to join their team, you have to believe.

00:15:04.000 All the things.

00:15:06.000 Yeah, right.

00:15:07.000 And you have to kind of display them, perform it like you're performing.

00:15:11.000 Yes.

00:15:11.000 Right?

00:15:11.000 Very good point.

00:15:12.000 You have to say all the right words.

00:15:13.000 And if you say the wrong words, you're canceled.

00:15:15.000 And that happens on both sides.

00:15:16.000 100%.

00:15:17.000 And, you know, the right was always complaining about the left doing it, but now the right's doing it. 1.00

00:15:21.000 They're canceling each other about all kinds of stupid things. 1.00

00:15:23.000 And it's just a. 1.00

00:15:24.000 It is.

00:15:25.000 It's.

00:15:26.000 You know, Mark Andreessen's talked about this that they display all of the behavior that you get from cults.

00:15:34.000 It's the same thing.

00:15:35.000 Excommunication.

00:15:35.000 Totally.

00:15:37.000 Yeah, extreme following of doctrine with no deviation whatsoever.

00:15:42.000 Everyone's very performative, that they are more in line with the doctrine than you are.

00:15:49.000 Ew.

00:15:50.000 Yeah.

00:15:50.000 And by the way, academia is a lot like that.

00:15:52.000 Oh, it's very much like that.

00:15:54.000 That's very disturbing.

00:15:55.000 It is disturbing because these people, you're supposed to be open minded because how are you going to get to truth?

00:16:00.000 I mean, the idea is to get to truth, right?

00:16:02.000 Yes.

00:16:02.000 How are you going to get to truth if you've decided, well, that person's asking this question?

00:16:07.000 That's an inappropriate question.

00:16:08.000 Yes.

00:16:09.000 Yeah.

00:16:10.000 And it's also, there's this thing about people being.

00:16:12.000 Gatekeepers of information.

00:16:15.000 So, like if you're an expert in a very particular subject and someone disagrees with that, people are like, I am a PhD in the subject.

00:16:22.000 Let me tell you about this and I know what's going on.

00:16:24.000 Like that.

00:16:25.000 It's so irritating.

00:16:25.000 Yeah.

00:16:26.000 And actually, that bothers me when I go on shows and people say, Oh, but you're a scientist and you study this.

00:16:31.000 And it's like, Yeah, but could we not revere me for that reason?

00:16:34.000 Could we instead ask the question, like, does she do good work?

00:16:37.000 Does she have interesting thoughts?

00:16:39.000 You know, does this seem reasonable?

00:16:42.000 Does it seem like she's after the, you know, moving towards the good?

00:16:45.000 Those are really the standards.

00:16:46.000 Regardless of your degree.

00:16:48.000 And so it worries me that we put so much reverence in scientists or whatever, or experts. 1.00

00:16:55.000 And I also see that there can be this problem where you go, oh, experts are all full of shit. 0.99

00:17:00.000 And then you have to get brain surgery and you're like, I would like a really good neurosurgeon. 0.99

00:17:06.000 So there's kind of both.

00:17:08.000 Oh, 100% there's both.

00:17:10.000 I think the problem is human ego.

00:17:12.000 And the problem is that even people that have deeply studied subjects, The wanting the reverence and wanting people to defer to you wholly with no questions whatsoever, like as if you have the entire database on whatever this thing is settled.

00:17:30.000 This is settled science.

00:17:31.000 We know everything about it.

00:17:33.000 That doesn't seem to be the case very often.

00:17:36.000 There's very few things that seem to be completely settled.

00:17:39.000 It's much more interesting to me when I talk to someone that their perspective is I'm a person that has spent an inordinate amount of time.

00:17:49.000 Going over this stuff, and this is what I know.

00:17:51.000 I might not know all of it, but this is what we know, and this is why we think this is what it is.

00:17:56.000 And this is so instead of like having this ego, and I see it, God, I see it from so many.

00:18:03.000 It's a very male thing, too.

00:18:05.000 It's a very male ego thing to be like the dominant force of the narrative, you know, that they're the enforcer of the narrative, and you know, very.

00:18:19.000 Dismissive and very rude, and saying, you know, just insulting things about anybody that deviates from it instead of just saying, this is why I think this is the case, and this is what we've learned over the years.

00:18:36.000 But having humility when you're dealing with, especially when you're dealing with something like cognitive, like anything involving consciousness, anything involving the human mind, it's so complex.

00:18:49.000 There's so much going on, and it's so biologically variable.

00:18:53.000 There's so many different people that have different ways of thinking and their mind works differently.

00:18:58.000 One of the more illuminating things about doing this podcast is having so many different people in here and so many different conversations, so many unique and fascinating people, but they're all different.

00:19:11.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:19:12.000 You're like tasting from all the different flavors of humanity.

00:19:17.000 And it's a delight to listen to, but I sort of want to know what it's like to be in your brain as you start to soak.

00:19:23.000 It's like you're a sponge and you're soaking in all these points of view.

00:19:26.000 So the model that you're building.

00:19:28.000 I just wonder a lot about what it's like to be different people.

00:19:30.000 And I imagine the model that you're building of the world is really well informed.

00:19:34.000 Hey, Jamie, could you turn down my.

00:19:36.000 Oh, you could do it.

00:19:37.000 There's a little thing right there.

00:19:41.000 We're like professionals.

00:19:42.000 That's like you have a whole show.

00:19:46.000 But yeah, I think the model that you're building could be put to some really powerful use.

00:19:52.000 So I'm here to convince you to run for president.

00:19:54.000 Oh, God. 0.98

00:19:55.000 You're trying to get me killed, Julia? 0.99

00:19:56.000 How dare you? 0.97

00:19:57.000 No, I'm not interested in any job, in any government whatsoever.

00:20:01.000 I like doing this.

00:20:03.000 Okay, I get it.

00:20:04.000 But what you said about it's a really male thing, I think it's better said to say it's a really insecure male.

00:20:12.000 Thing or an insecure, it's an insecurity thing that happens more probably to men because there's such a standard of you're supposed to be alpha, everyone's supposed to be alpha, right?

00:20:21.000 And for women, there's not that standard, or you're not, you know, right?

00:20:24.000 And so, there's more insecurity because everyone can't be alpha, and what the heck is alpha?

00:20:30.000 And so, I feel like I have a desire for someone who has a sense of their own, like, is secure in their own masculinity and their own feminity, which I think you have both.

00:20:45.000 I hope you don't mind me.

00:20:46.000 Calling you out on that, but I know that you're like have this reputation of being like total guy, but you have this.

00:20:53.000 I mean, because you're a deep listener, that's already a feminine trait, and so is it really?

00:20:58.000 Yeah, oh, yeah, okay, yeah.

00:21:01.000 I didn't know that, I never thought of listening as being masculine or feminine.

00:21:05.000 Listening is a deeply feminine trait because you have to be relatively humble to want to listen, and the humility is a feminine trait.

00:21:12.000 Yeah, no, it's just I don't think of it as a feminine trait.

00:21:15.000 Yeah, I don't think listening is a feminine trait.

00:21:18.000 Yeah, maybe I'm wrong.

00:21:19.000 I think it's a kind of. 1.00

00:21:20.000 Women are generally better listeners. 1.00

00:21:22.000 Really? 1.00

00:21:22.000 I mean, that's. 1.00

00:21:23.000 Yeah.

00:21:24.000 It depends on if you're in a relationship with them or not.

00:21:26.000 It depends on who you're talking to.

00:21:28.000 I don't know if that's true.

00:21:31.000 I don't know if that's true.

00:21:32.000 Let me see where I'm going to get in there.

00:21:34.000 I think curious people, genuinely curious people, are better listeners.

00:21:37.000 That's what I think.

00:21:38.000 And I don't think women or men are genuinely more curious.

00:21:43.000 You're right.

00:21:44.000 And I think that there's a thing if you're always trying to prove that you're alpha, and I think men are more susceptible to that.

00:21:52.000 Yeah.

00:21:52.000 Where you could not be a good listener because you want to make sure you say the right thing.

00:21:56.000 That's an insecurity thing. 0.98

00:21:57.000 And then I think there's more insecurity among men because of those standards that are ridiculous. 0.90

00:22:02.000 And so maybe that's what I'm talking about. 0.80

00:22:04.000 But you're definitely right. 0.78

00:22:05.000 I can definitely think of men and women who are both crappy listeners and good listeners.

00:22:10.000 So it's about the insecurity, it's about the emotional maturity.

00:22:13.000 I think it's also a learned thing that, you know, people have this desire to show everyone how intelligent they are and how dominant they are in any particular subject.

00:22:24.000 And it's one of the most fascinating.

00:22:25.000 Infuriating things about having conversations where people aren't really talking to you, they're just trying to win whatever little verbal game you're playing.

00:22:35.000 They're trying to one up you and they're trying to.

00:22:37.000 I've seen that. 0.88

00:22:38.000 Yeah, it's gross.

00:22:40.000 It also just makes you want to leave.

00:22:42.000 Yeah, it's not fun.

00:22:43.000 It's not a fun conversation.

00:22:45.000 I love talking to people way smarter than me.

00:22:47.000 It's fun.

00:22:49.000 I can't be the smartest person.

00:22:51.000 I'm friends with Elon.

00:22:52.000 I'm definitely not the smartest person.

00:22:54.000 I know that. 0.98

00:22:55.000 I'm friends with a lot of people that are fucking way smarter than me. 0.99

00:22:59.000 I'm just curious. 0.96

00:23:00.000 And I think the world would be a lot better place if more people were curious.

00:23:05.000 And if you embraced it and just squash that insecurity that makes you want to puff your chest up.

00:23:15.000 See, I don't think you could squash it.

00:23:17.000 I also think the world would be a better place if more people were curious.

00:23:20.000 But I think the solution is I don't think squashing anything works.

00:23:27.000 I think you have to work through it.

00:23:29.000 That's a better way to say it than squashing it.

00:23:32.000 Squashing it just means it's going to come up later. 1.00

00:23:34.000 It's garbage. 0.99

00:23:35.000 Yeah, no, you said it better. 1.00

00:23:37.000 Yeah.

00:23:38.000 It's really just addressing why you're insecure.

00:23:41.000 And for a lot of men, there's just physical insecurity.

00:23:46.000 And the physical insecurity is a real problem.

00:23:48.000 But some of my favorite people are martial artists.

00:23:52.000 And one of the reasons why is because they're the least insecure.

00:23:55.000 Everyone's insecure in some way.

00:23:57.000 But martial artists are dealing with that insecurity literally on a daily basis.

00:24:03.000 So, like, say, Jiu Jitsu, for instance.

00:24:05.000 If you're training Jiu Jitsu, If you go from white belt to black belt, you have to get humiliated thousands of times.

00:24:13.000 There's no ifs or buts about it.

00:24:16.000 If you're a white belt and you train with a black belt, you're going to get humiliated or dominated. 0.96

00:24:21.000 You're going to lose. 0.98

00:24:22.000 You have no chance.

00:24:24.000 And so by learning over and over and over and over again that you're not really special, and it's really just about the time you put in and then about getting better and having the ability to objectively assess your position, who you are in this.

00:24:39.000 This room of people that are trying to strangle each other, who you are in the world itself.

00:24:44.000 I think a lot of people don't ever address that.

00:24:48.000 They run around trying to posture and pretend they're something they're not, pretend they're smarter than they are, they're more of an expert on a subject, they're the one who should talk, you should listen.

00:25:00.000 There's a lot of that.

00:25:01.000 Whenever people say, just shut up and listen, I'm like, that's not, I'm not going to do that.

00:25:07.000 I don't want to talk to anybody that wants to listen.

00:25:08.000 I don't ever want anybody to do that if I'm talking.

00:25:12.000 You're not having a conversation.

00:25:13.000 That person doesn't exist.

00:25:14.000 Exactly.

00:25:14.000 You've just decided that person doesn't exist or they don't matter.

00:25:17.000 You've asserted dominance in the dumbest way possible, which is intellectual. 0.99

00:25:23.000 Yes. 1.00

00:25:24.000 That is the dumbest way possible. 1.00

00:25:26.000 Sure. 0.99

00:25:27.000 And the funny thing is, culturally, we kind of think that it's the smartest way possible. 1.00

00:25:31.000 It's just a bunch of fools. 1.00

00:25:32.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1.00

00:25:34.000 Fools with a lot of information. 0.99

00:25:35.000 Okay, but let's talk about what a better world would be. 1.00

00:25:39.000 So, in a better world, If you're going to assert dominance, you would like the martial art.

00:25:46.000 What I love about martial art is first of all, it's all mental, almost all mental.

00:25:51.000 And then second, it's very similar to what happens when you go through and get your PhD, right?

00:25:56.000 You get beaten down and you realize you're not the smartest person in the room and you're hanging out with all these other super smart people.

00:26:02.000 And then you've got to learn to be like, okay, that's not what matters.

00:26:06.000 So that's the good part of going nuts with school.

00:26:11.000 But there's this.

00:26:13.000 False information.

00:26:15.000 It reminds me of when I was at UCSF and I went to go see this talk by this famous scientist.

00:26:20.000 I think he won a Nobel Prize for Yoda's name. 1.00

00:26:23.000 But he was an asshole. 1.00

00:26:25.000 And he gave his brilliant talk, but I couldn't pay attention to it because he was an asshole. 1.00

00:26:30.000 He was being rude to people who asked questions. 1.00

00:26:33.000 He was just dickish. 0.99

00:26:35.000 I mean, I don't know how else to say it, just like arrogant. 0.92

00:26:38.000 And I walked out and someone said to me, one of my mentors said to me, You know, you have to learn to separate.

00:26:45.000 The personality from the information that they're giving.

00:26:49.000 And I said, you know, no, I don't.

00:26:51.000 Like he's giving me all the information in his personality.

00:26:54.000 Right.

00:26:55.000 I don't need to learn to listen to that.

00:26:58.000 I need to learn to say, unlike all of you, I need to learn to say, I'm not going to hang out with people and put myself in the presence of people who are rude like that.

00:27:08.000 That's more important than their amazing intellect.

00:27:12.000 And somehow, somehow, we got to a place culturally where we think you can be really.

00:27:19.000 Mean or dismissive or rude and arrogant, and that's fine because you're winning. 0.72

00:27:28.000 And I feel like a better world would acknowledge that what's more important is love, which is this connection where you actually acknowledge there's someone else there, even if you like think they're an asshole, but still, you know, like I wasn't practicing love, I wasn't accepting him who he was, but I was in a place where the environment wanted me to just ignore sort of the information I was getting about who this guy was and just say, no, all that matters is his intelligence. 0.93

00:27:58.000 Yeah. 0.85

00:28:00.000 So sometimes.

00:28:02.000 You can learn a lot from people that are gross.

00:28:04.000 You know, and it's valuable to be able to put their personality aside and listen to the actual information.

00:28:04.000 Yeah.

00:28:11.000 But still, in that moment, though, I was.

00:28:13.000 You don't want to.

00:28:14.000 Yeah.

00:28:15.000 Well, in that moment, in that moment, I was like 24 and I was a woman in a field where there are a lot of guys.

00:28:22.000 And I was feeling like I have to have boundaries.

00:28:27.000 You know, I have to learn to have boundaries.

00:28:29.000 And then later when I'm, you know, like now I'm postmenopausal and, you know, how postmenopausal women are, we have much more.

00:28:36.000 Confidence.

00:28:37.000 But you're not playing that game anymore.

00:28:40.000 Yeah, no, right, exactly. 0.99

00:28:42.000 It's like now I'm like, I can listen to, you know, some asshole listen to what he's saying. 0.96

00:28:46.000 But at the time, it's like, no, like I have to stand up for something that I think is important. 0.98

00:28:50.000 Right.

00:28:51.000 You know, I'm not saying I'm better than I'm saying I had that experience that made me see that there was this level of like sort of import placed on the intellect.

00:29:05.000 And that had always been the case.

00:29:06.000 My family had always placed all this level of import on the intellect.

00:29:10.000 And I just kind of walked out of that.

00:29:12.000 Well, it has to be balanced.

00:29:13.000 Like, I think putting all of the emphasis on the intellect itself and ignoring the personality is kind of like the messenger is important. 0.98

00:29:25.000 Like, the message is important, but the messenger sucks.

00:29:28.000 That, you know, if someone was yelling out the most amazing information in the world, but they were singing it like a Slayer song, I don't know if it's a bad example, but you know what I mean? 0.85

00:29:40.000 Like, you know those death metal bands where they just scream.

00:29:43.000 And you're like, oh, geez, I got to get out of here.

00:29:45.000 It's not my thing, right? 0.98

00:29:46.000 But it could be like the most interesting information, but the messenger sucks. 0.94

00:29:51.000 It's not fun to listen to, it's not exciting. 0.96

00:29:54.000 Or the messenger's arrogant, or the messenger's rude, or it ruins the message.

00:29:59.000 Yeah, you need both.

00:30:00.000 Human beings need to communicate.

00:30:02.000 And in order to communicate, we need to establish that we're just two people, you know?

00:30:07.000 And if you have some information that I don't have, I want to hear it.

00:30:11.000 I don't want to, like, oh, she's saying too many smart things.

00:30:13.000 I want to say something smart to show I'm smarter than her.

00:30:16.000 Well, hold on there.

00:30:17.000 You know, there's a lot of that.

00:30:19.000 And that's a lot of that in academia because that is their entire identity.

00:30:23.000 It's a chess game.

00:30:24.000 Yes.

00:30:25.000 Yeah.

00:30:25.000 But it's a chess game with pieces that are stunted.

00:30:28.000 Like they're not allowed to freely move.

00:30:30.000 No kidding.

00:30:31.000 Yeah, it is a cult.

00:30:32.000 I mean, that's the cult part.

00:30:33.000 That's where you leave and people feel sorry for you.

00:30:33.000 Yes.

00:30:36.000 And you're like, I have my freedom.

00:30:37.000 I'm so excited.

00:30:38.000 And they're like, I'm so sorry for you.

00:30:41.000 Yeah, it's social hierarchies. 0.77

00:30:42.000 It's gross. 0.94

00:30:43.000 Yeah.

00:30:43.000 And, I mean, I think that's going to.

00:30:47.000 Exist whenever there's ego, whenever there's the human dynamics of these bizarre creatures that we are, where territorial apes with weapons.

00:30:59.000 We're weird and we're always establishing some kind of dominance, whether it's intellectual dominance or wealth dominance or social hierarchy dominance.

00:31:09.000 People love that stuff.

00:31:11.000 They love it.

00:31:12.000 They love to play it.

00:31:14.000 they love to play it they love to pretend we love to pretend it but But do we really.

00:31:19.000 Well, that's why people name drop.

00:31:21.000 That's why people want to have the fanciest cars and the nicest watches and the biggest watches.

00:31:26.000 Is that really making them happy?

00:31:28.000 No, it's not.

00:31:29.000 So, I don't know that people love it.

00:31:31.000 I think people do it because they think it's going to make them happy.

00:31:33.000 But I don't think they love it.

00:31:34.000 Yeah.

00:31:35.000 There's something to that.

00:31:36.000 There's probably something that some sociopaths feel if they show up with a million dollar watch and a million dollar car and they pull up in front of a giant house that's bigger than anybody's.

00:31:46.000 Like, wow.

00:31:47.000 Sure.

00:31:48.000 I did it.

00:31:49.000 But I think, yeah.

00:31:50.000 Well, that's rare.

00:31:51.000 I think that's rare.

00:31:52.000 I think it's not lasting either.

00:31:52.000 Yeah.

00:31:54.000 And then there's also a bunch of people that are on fucking pills. 0.99

00:31:57.000 They don't even know what they like. 1.00

00:31:58.000 Just running around in the fog of pharmaceutical cloth.

00:32:02.000 That's the way they're dealing with it.

00:32:03.000 So it's like, I guess if we see it as like, there's this big problem, which is that I call this the human problem.

00:32:10.000 No one knows how to be with themselves or others in any kind of harmony.

00:32:14.000 Harmony.

00:32:14.000 Right.

00:32:15.000 That's a good word.

00:32:16.000 We don't know how to get to harmony.

00:32:18.000 Right.

00:32:19.000 And so one way is for drugs, and one way is prayer, and one way is the big car and the dominance, and one way is.

00:32:29.000 You know, being addicted to your phone.

00:32:30.000 I mean, what, you know, none of them work.

00:32:33.000 Right.

00:32:34.000 But all of, I mean, that's not true.

00:32:36.000 I think prayer works.

00:32:38.000 But I think the only one that works is love.

00:32:40.000 And I think that's what prayer is about.

00:32:41.000 But earnest prayer.

00:32:44.000 But we have to try.

00:32:47.000 I mean, we're built to try to get to harmony, apparently, because we keep trying.

00:32:53.000 And so part of me wants to say, I'm of two minds.

00:32:57.000 Part of me just says, like, we're trying the best we can and we have all these faults.

00:33:01.000 And then there's a part of me that says, And we can do better.

00:33:04.000 Well, we definitely can.

00:33:05.000 And I think that's one of the reasons why people hunger for conversations because we're all trying to figure out how to do better.

00:33:10.000 The human mind is one of the most extraordinary things that's ever been studied.

00:33:10.000 Yeah.

00:33:15.000 And yet there's no guidebook on how to use it.

00:33:18.000 Because we still don't know.

00:33:19.000 Do you know how much we don't know?

00:33:21.000 We know about as much about the human mind now as we knew in 1991 when I first went to graduate school.

00:33:27.000 I mean, in neuroscience.

00:33:29.000 I mean, the brain, we know a lot more about the brain.

00:33:32.000 We still don't know that much about it.

00:33:34.000 We're still missing some basic pieces of things like what's the neural code?

00:33:39.000 How do these neurons actually communicate?

00:33:41.000 How do we actually learn?

00:33:42.000 How do we actually represent things in memory?

00:33:44.000 But we know more.

00:33:46.000 But in terms of the mind, wow, we're just beginning.

00:33:50.000 I mean, I guess I'm differentiating the brain and the mind.

00:33:53.000 The brain is this physical chunk of stuff that's related to the mind, but the mind is what we are doing.

00:34:00.000 Right.

00:34:00.000 Well, the thinking, feeling, emoting, wondering, all that stuff is mind stuff.

00:34:08.000 And that's.

00:34:09.000 Super mysterious and super difficult to manage for almost everybody.

00:34:13.000 Yeah.

00:34:14.000 And again, no guidebook.

00:34:16.000 Yeah.

00:34:16.000 You're giving the most complex instrument known to man, which is the human mind.

00:34:21.000 Yeah.

00:34:21.000 And everybody's like, figure it out.

00:34:23.000 And you're like, fuck, maybe I'll become a Mooney. 1.00

00:34:25.000 That's it. 1.00

00:34:26.000 Maybe I'll go into Scientology.

00:34:27.000 What do I do?

00:34:28.000 I have to do something.

00:34:29.000 I have to do something.

00:34:30.000 Someone knows.

00:34:31.000 I know.

00:34:32.000 I'm the one who knows.

00:34:33.000 Follow that guy.

00:34:34.000 You know, it's like, that's what we do.

00:34:35.000 Do these 10 things and you'll be okay.

00:34:37.000 That's how cults get started.

00:34:37.000 Yes.

00:34:38.000 We do those 10 things because we're so nervous.

00:34:40.000 We can't figure it out.

00:34:41.000 Exactly.

00:34:42.000 Yeah.

00:34:43.000 Yeah.

00:34:44.000 Uh, have you ever seen a baby be born?

00:34:46.000 Sure, yeah, yeah.

00:34:47.000 So, so have I, my own, but also I was a doula for a couple friends who had babies.

00:34:53.000 And you know, everyone should just see a baby be born because it's very psychedelic, it's psychedelic, and it's also it just puts you in that liminal space where, um, it's like you've seen beyond the veil, you've seen the borderland between life and death.

00:35:08.000 And it feels to me like that experience, which is much more rare for people to have now, most people.

00:35:16.000 Can avoid seeing a baby being born.

00:35:19.000 But that experience is, and also seeing someone die, that experience, I think, helps train us in, it is the instruction book for the human mind.

00:35:30.000 I don't know why I'm saying that.

00:35:31.000 I look at you, you know, you're wrinkling your brow, and I'm like, also, why am I saying that?

00:35:35.000 I never.

00:35:36.000 No, I'm only wrinkling my brow because I'm listening.

00:35:38.000 I bet the face of someone who's always upset, but it's not true.

00:35:38.000 I never bet.

00:35:43.000 No, I don't know why I said that.

00:35:45.000 Like, I've never had that thought before, but it occurred, I guess I was looking at this little, like, you've got this little.

00:35:50.000 Like, idle thing?

00:35:51.000 Oh, that is a death whistle. 0.92

00:35:53.000 That's an Aztec death whistle. 0.53

00:35:54.000 Don't do it.

00:35:56.000 Last time we did it, the pandemic started.

00:35:57.000 Yeah, I got rid of it close enough.

00:35:59.000 Yeah, and with the head to virus thing going on, don't blow it.

00:35:59.000 Okay.

00:36:03.000 Okay. 0.99

00:36:04.000 Yeah, it's a meme online because my friend Brian Cowan was in the podcast studio and he blew this Aztec death whistle like literally, was it like a week before the fucking pandemic? 0.97

00:36:14.000 It was way too close. 0.94

00:36:15.000 It was way too close.

00:36:16.000 And the meme was Brian Cowan kicking off the pandemic with the Aztec death whistle.

00:36:21.000 Okay, well.

00:36:22.000 I didn't blow it.

00:36:23.000 Yeah.

00:36:24.000 I saved everybody. 0.98

00:36:25.000 Do you know what Aztec death whistles are?

00:36:27.000 I imagine it's really scary.

00:36:28.000 It sounds horrible.

00:36:29.000 And they would play them at night while their enemy was like camped at night.

00:36:35.000 And so they would haunt them so they couldn't sleep.

00:36:39.000 They would stand on the mountaintops and make that noise.

00:36:43.000 And it's very high pitched and it carries.

00:36:43.000 Wow.

00:36:45.000 Like a crying baby.

00:36:46.000 Well, no, it's very, it's like demons.

00:36:48.000 It sounds like demons.

00:36:49.000 It sounds like people screaming.

00:36:50.000 And you just think, this is the last day of my life.

00:36:50.000 Yeah.

00:36:53.000 Here's what it says. 0.91

00:36:54.000 Aztec soldiers will blow while charging into battle and during human sacrifices.

00:36:58.000 But how does a whistle make that horrifying sound?

00:37:01.000 When air is blown into the tube, the airflow splits into a big and small chamber, each making a different poise you're about to hear.

00:37:11.000 Click here to see me try the world's loudest.

00:37:13.000 Did that guy survive?

00:37:14.000 I don't know.

00:37:16.000 He might not even be real.

00:37:17.000 In this world, that might be AI.

00:37:19.000 Well, that's true.

00:37:20.000 So, no wonder I was thinking about the veil between life and death, because I was looking at that thing and.

00:37:26.000 There's something that is like a reset, you know, when you see a baby be born or you see someone die.

00:37:35.000 It's like you get to what matters, and it's not whatever the dominance thing, and it's not the insecurity thing, and it's not any of that.

00:37:49.000 Yeah.

00:37:50.000 You know, so I think that's the instruction book.

00:37:53.000 And so we're sort of given these little resets that allow us to get in touch with what really matters.

00:37:59.000 But the more we get away from them, you know, in the modern world, maybe the fewer instructions we have.

00:38:08.000 I don't know.

00:38:09.000 Never had that thought before.

00:38:10.000 Yeah.

00:38:11.000 I think it would benefit almost everyone to do something that takes you out of your own thoughts.

00:38:20.000 And I think that physically difficult things are the very best at that.

00:38:25.000 Like yoga is one of the very best things at that because it's very physically difficult to do.

00:38:32.000 It requires a lot of willpower and concentration while you're doing it.

00:38:37.000 You're balancing yourself, you're sweating, you're straining.

00:38:41.000 And because it's so difficult, you can't think of anything else other than it while you're doing it.

00:38:46.000 And I think that cleans your mind out and that it purges you of all this weirdness that's inside of you that is constantly battling with everything around you and allows you to just be.

00:39:00.000 Yeah.

00:39:01.000 Just exist.

00:39:02.000 Yoga.

00:39:02.000 Yeah.

00:39:03.000 I mean, childbirth is very physical.

00:39:05.000 Dying is very physical.

00:39:06.000 Yeah, but the thing is, you can't voluntarily do that every day.

00:39:09.000 No, you can't.

00:39:10.000 You can't, but I do sort of think like childbirth for women who go through it or are lucky enough to go through it is kind of like boot camp for men.

00:39:19.000 I mean, it really pushes you to your limit and then puts you in an altered state where.

00:39:28.000 Oh, for sure.

00:39:29.000 You just had a human come out of your body and now it's alive and you love it more than anything.

00:39:34.000 Yeah, and it brings this like incredible.

00:39:36.000 I'm looking at this UFO guy behind you.

00:39:38.000 It brings this incredible self transcendent experience of like, whoa, this is not about me.

00:39:43.000 Right.

00:39:44.000 You know, and so.

00:39:45.000 Yeah, same with people who play team sports.

00:39:47.000 I was never one of them.

00:39:48.000 But I hear that that experience happens.

00:39:51.000 Yes.

00:39:52.000 Or like when you're practicing a musical instrument.

00:39:54.000 I think anything difficult.

00:39:56.000 I think when I was talking about martial arts, you could, martial arts will help you in that regard.

00:40:02.000 But I think kind of anything that's hard to do gets you out of your head and helps you.

00:40:07.000 And just getting an understanding that whatever you're doing in life, if you concentrate on it and focus on it, and you'll get better at it.

00:40:17.000 And that gives you confidence and an understanding of kind of how the world works.

00:40:22.000 And then you could also apply that to being a person.

00:40:24.000 You know, like you're not the same person you were when you were 20 years old, right?

00:40:28.000 Why?

00:40:28.000 Because you're better at being a person because you've lived a lot, you've had a lot of experiences, you made a lot of mistakes, and you're constantly practicing and learning, you know?

00:40:39.000 And I think other things that you can do other than just being a person will enhance your ability to be a person.

00:40:45.000 Yeah.

00:40:46.000 Being a person who is applying yourself.

00:40:48.000 To something.

00:40:49.000 Yes.

00:40:49.000 My martial arts instructor had this thing that he told me when I was very young.

00:40:52.000 He said that martial arts are a vehicle for developing your human potential.

00:40:58.000 And that.

00:41:00.000 But I think that could be guitar playing.

00:41:01.000 That could be tennis.

00:41:03.000 When I used to teach remote viewing, we used to call it a mental martial art.

00:41:06.000 It's anything that's hard on which you have to concentrate that puts you in that space of flow.

00:41:14.000 And the flow means, you know, that Holly Chicks at Mahali idea.

00:41:19.000 I don't know if I pronounced his name right, but this idea of.

00:41:21.000 Timelessness, and you're just sort of having to surf whatever's happening.

00:41:27.000 And that could happen, it could happen in any field, right?

00:41:32.000 Whenever you have to apply your whole self to something, then it's so ironic because you apply your whole self to something, and then what that allows to happen is that you become selfless.

00:41:44.000 Like you're almost like a tube.

00:41:45.000 Right.

00:41:46.000 You're not thinking about you anymore.

00:41:48.000 You're thinking about the thing.

00:41:49.000 Yeah.

00:41:49.000 And there's neuroscience to back that up, right?

00:41:52.000 Yeah.

00:41:53.000 I think anything difficult.

00:41:56.000 I feel that when I practice archery.

00:41:58.000 I feel that when I play pool.

00:42:00.000 I feel that when I work out.

00:42:02.000 Anything difficult where you lose yourself.

00:42:05.000 But in doing that, you have a better understanding of yourself, which is odd.

00:42:11.000 Yeah.

00:42:12.000 And it's almost like you come into consciousness more.

00:42:14.000 Yeah.

00:42:15.000 I'm really fascinated by the remote viewing, and I want to get to that.

00:42:17.000 But I want to start with how did you begin studying this stuff?

00:42:23.000 So you're involved in neuroscience.

00:42:25.000 You're.

00:42:27.000 You know, you're trying to pick which lane you're going to really pursue all your interests in.

00:42:32.000 How did you get involved in this idea of premonition and psychic ability and that there's a real something there?

00:42:41.000 Yeah, I sort of hid it from my agenda from myself.

00:42:48.000 Yeah, I discovered later in life.

00:42:48.000 Really?

00:42:51.000 Yeah, because when I was a kid, my first precognitive dream that I remember was when I was seven.

00:43:00.000 It was very clear.

00:43:02.000 I dreamt that my friend, I knew which friend, Yshane, would, what would happen?

00:43:07.000 She would lose her watch.

00:43:08.000 Where would it happen?

00:43:09.000 On the playground.

00:43:10.000 And then the next day that happened.

00:43:12.000 It was very specific.

00:43:13.000 You know, it wasn't like you don't have to be metaphorical about it.

00:43:16.000 What does it mean?

00:43:17.000 It meant that Shane lost her watch on the playground the next day.

00:43:20.000 Right.

00:43:21.000 And so.

00:43:22.000 Did you tell your parents?

00:43:23.000 Yeah.

00:43:24.000 And they said, my mom, so my very eccentric family would always talk about dreams at the breakfast table.

00:43:33.000 My mom is a therapist and a learning disability specialist.

00:43:37.000 My dad was a physicist.

00:43:38.000 My sister's an artist.

00:43:40.000 And we would all talk about dreams.

00:43:42.000 And so I would.

00:43:43.000 I mentioned this, and my dad, the physicist, says, Well, that's a coincidence.

00:43:48.000 And my mom, the therapist, says, You should get a dream journal and write them down.

00:43:52.000 And so I did that.

00:43:53.000 And your dad just dismissed it as a coincidence?

00:43:57.000 You know, he has come around.

00:43:59.000 That's a very specific coincidence.

00:44:02.000 It's three factors.

00:44:04.000 And I always like to say, if you have two or more factors, it's likely precognitive.

00:44:07.000 But just the one lost the watch, and then she loses her watch.

00:44:11.000 She did just get her watch.

00:44:13.000 We were seven years old.

00:44:14.000 She got her watch from her father.

00:44:16.000 You know, I could predict that as someone who's good at figuring out what kids do is that they might lose the watch, right?

00:44:21.000 So that could be a coincidence.

00:44:23.000 You have to think about all the possible things that could happen to a seven year old in the watch that they just got.

00:44:27.000 Losing it is up there.

00:44:29.000 Yeah, but you thought about it the day before she lost it.

00:44:31.000 I dreamt it the day before she lost it.

00:44:33.000 Yeah.

00:44:34.000 Yeah.

00:44:35.000 So he did dismiss it as a coincidence, but we also had ball lightning and like weird orbs in our house.

00:44:39.000 And he also dismissed that as not actually having happened.

00:44:42.000 Wait, you had ball lightning in your house?

00:44:45.000 Yeah.

00:44:45.000 We were in this old farmhouse in.

00:44:47.000 Libertyville, Illinois, where I grew up.

00:44:49.000 And we lived with my grandparents there.

00:44:53.000 And ball lightning came inside the house, and my mother stood up for it.

00:44:58.000 My mother said, Ed, my dad's name, you know, didn't she see that lightning zipping around the house last night?

00:45:05.000 Lightning.

00:45:06.000 And my dad said, that couldn't have happened.

00:45:11.000 Of course he saw it.

00:45:11.000 Did he see it?

00:45:13.000 But he just wanted to see it.

00:45:14.000 But he didn't have an explanation for it.

00:45:15.000 What does your dad do?

00:45:16.000 He was a theoretical physicist for his dissertation.

00:45:19.000 He was at the University of Chicago.

00:45:21.000 He discovered or showed somehow the electron layer on the moon, that there's this like atmosphere of electrons on the moon.

00:45:28.000 And how can you say that that couldn't happen?

00:45:31.000 So, one of the reasons, so people are so complex with the reasons they go into particular fields.

00:45:38.000 My experience with physicists, my dad included, is they tend to go into this field of physics because the whole job of physics is to simplify everything into a few equations, right?

00:45:49.000 Let's like, there's the funny, there's the, I don't know if it's funny, but there's the standard physics joke of like, All right, let's figure out the volume of a cow.

00:45:57.000 Let's just estimate it.

00:45:58.000 It's a sphere.

00:45:59.000 And so it's like you cut off the legs and the head and the tail, and all of a sudden you're just calculating a sphere, which doesn't give you the volume of the cow.

00:46:08.000 And so I think there's a desire to simplify everything, and I think there's a desire to control things.

00:46:16.000 And many, many, many physicists have OCD and have control issues.

00:46:20.000 My dad had severe, severe OCD.

00:46:23.000 In his mind, um, it couldn't have happened because it would all his circuits would fry because he didn't know how to explain it.

00:46:33.000 And my mother just stood up for it and said, Well, it did happen, and you saw it, and I saw it.

00:46:36.000 And it hit the edge of my room and then went out, and there was still like the brown mark where it was burned in the corner of the room.

00:46:44.000 So, like, we had plenty of evidence.

00:46:47.000 Um, so there was stuff going on, and there was a there was this push pull with my mom who just.

00:46:57.000 Believed in the primacy, I guess, of or the importance of experience, like we saw it.

00:47:03.000 And the pull from my dad, who believed in if you didn't understand, if you didn't have a theory for something, it couldn't exist.

00:47:11.000 And so I was living in that.

00:47:12.000 So, what I did was, I kept a dream journal sort of the rest of my life.

00:47:17.000 I still write every morning my dreams and started to notice that I was really good at precognitive dreaming.

00:47:24.000 And it would happen again and again and again.

00:47:26.000 And I would have experiences, we can get into later the weird school stuff, but experiences at school that reminded me that I had this capacity.

00:47:36.000 And Then I hid it from myself when I realized I wanted to go to graduate school and actually be a scientist.

00:47:45.000 So, by which I mean, I just sort of said, well, all of that stuff's crap, even though I was still having those experiences.

00:47:51.000 I had to kind of split off.

00:47:53.000 This is a thing that you have to do if you think, okay, I have to ride the academic train, right?

00:47:59.000 And the academic train says, like, I'm going to do hard science.

00:48:02.000 I'm going to go to the best neuroscience school.

00:48:04.000 I'm going to, you know.

00:48:05.000 Right.

00:48:06.000 And then by the time I was in my late 20s, And I was in my second graduate school getting my PhD at Northwestern.

00:48:14.000 I started to remember.

00:48:16.000 And the reason I started, and it's not like I had really forgotten, but it's like it just wasn't allowed to be real.

00:48:22.000 I started to study timing in the auditory system because I was into understanding how the auditory system managed things in time.

00:48:32.000 And then I started to ask myself, why am I so interested in time?

00:48:35.000 Why am I so interested in the nature of time and how it works?

00:48:38.000 And then, boom, oh, right, because I keep having these precognitive dreams.

00:48:42.000 Obviously, something we don't understand about how time works because these are so consistent and clear.

00:48:47.000 And at that point, you know, I knew that was happening because I knew I wasn't making it up.

00:48:52.000 I could look at my journal and I could see it.

00:48:55.000 So that's when I started saying, all right, you know, I'm old enough to choose my own path and I'm going to start asking these questions.

00:49:03.000 And when you started asking them and trying to apply it in using the scientific method, how did you first attempt to do that?

00:49:12.000 Well, I called, I was a I'm kind of fearless when it comes to cold calling people, especially scientists, because very few people call scientists.

00:49:22.000 So I called up Dean Radin.

00:49:24.000 I had read some of his work from the Institute of Nautic Sciences.

00:49:28.000 I called him up and I said, Hi, my name's Julia.

00:49:32.000 And I was thinking of going into this field and I think precognition is real.

00:49:35.000 And he's like, Oh, okay.

00:49:38.000 And I remember where I was sitting when I called him.

00:49:42.000 And he said, The thing you have to do is get your PhD in a field that is not this.

00:49:48.000 So, finish your PhD and then, as a postdoc, start to investigate it.

00:49:53.000 So, I did.

00:49:53.000 I finished my PhD while I was studying all this other stuff and understanding the field.

00:49:57.000 And then, as soon as I got into my postdoc years, I found a sympathetic advisor at Northwestern in the cognitive neuroscience program and just said, I want to start studying this stuff.

00:50:08.000 So, at the same time, I had one foot in more mainstream stuff about timing and the auditory and the visual system.

00:50:15.000 And then the other foot was in this purely, basically psychic stuff, trying to understand it.

00:50:20.000 And I Made an experiment.

00:50:23.000 There's a foundation called the Bial Foundation in Portugal, and I wrote an application to them and they funded my postdoc so I could study the sense of being stared at with closed circuit TV monitors.

00:50:36.000 I could study how the skin physiology, skin conductance, or sweat changes just before you get a response right on a random psychic task.

00:50:48.000 That's precognition or presentiment.

00:50:51.000 Then I just pulled from I got really interested in presentiment because I saw that it was real. 0.61

00:50:56.000 And I also saw there was a big gender difference that was fascinating to me, which is that before men got their first trial correct, and this is just a guessing game, so it's all randomly selected, their skin conductance would go crazy, like they just won the lottery.

00:51:13.000 And before they didn't get it correct or they were incorrect, it would just kind of like peter along.

00:51:19.000 So they were anticipating at a very high level what the future was going to bring, whether they were going to win or not. 0.98

00:51:25.000 Whereas women practically, but not totally, showed the opposite. 0.98

00:51:31.000 But regardless of what happened, whether it was correct or incorrect, they were much lower than men. 0.97

00:51:35.000 So men were really excited about the future correct thing. 0.99

00:51:41.000 At least their physiology showed that.

00:51:43.000 So I got fascinated by that and pulled together a bunch of, worked with a couple other people at different institutions and pulled together 26 studies over the past, or the prior, I guess, 40 years that looked at this kind of physiological change that predicts essentially a random future event.

00:52:03.000 And just analyzed it.

00:52:04.000 Do you have a theory as to why men have that response and women don't?

00:52:09.000 You know, I kind of think it's cultural.

00:52:12.000 You were talking about the importance of winning.

00:52:15.000 And I think, I mean, that we know that gambling addicts are twice as likely, maybe three times as likely, to be men as women.

00:52:25.000 Really?

00:52:26.000 Yeah.

00:52:27.000 And the importance of winning, well, I don't know if it's biological or cultural, but in any case, the importance of winning.

00:52:35.000 Being alpha or the importance of winning, I think it's a big deal.

00:52:39.000 It's a big deal to men.

00:52:42.000 Do you think that goes back to tribal war?

00:52:45.000 I think it goes back to chimpanzees. 0.90

00:52:49.000 Yeah, which do tribal war.

00:52:51.000 Yeah.

00:52:52.000 I mean, it kind of makes sense that the importance in winning is literally survival or death.

00:52:56.000 You will get kicked out of your little chimpanzee colony.

00:52:59.000 Not only that, the ability to predict things that are going to happen would probably keep you alive.

00:53:06.000 Yeah.

00:53:06.000 Like if you were running into an ambush, you're like, I don't like this, or something's wrong, something's off, or now's the time to go.

00:53:14.000 Like I feel it.

00:53:15.000 Yeah.

00:53:16.000 So those combined.

00:53:16.000 Yeah.

00:53:17.000 But, you know, there's other tasks that aren't about winning that are just about, is, you know, are you going to see a picture that's scary versus a picture that's neutral where women and men both show the effect?

00:53:27.000 But in this particular task, it was just like very clear.

00:53:31.000 And then I replicated it in heartbeats.

00:53:33.000 So the first one was in skin conductance.

00:53:35.000 And then I looked at.

00:53:36.000 Heart rhythms.

00:53:38.000 And I replicated that same thing where men are like, oh, yeah, here we go. 0.97

00:53:41.000 And women are like, da da da da. 0.84

00:53:44.000 It doesn't, if something doesn't matter so much to you in the future, I don't think it matters so much to you in anticipating it. 0.99

00:53:53.000 Now, here's the question about this stuff Do you think that this is an emerging phenomenon in human consciousness, or do you think it's something that has atrophied, that was available before language?

00:54:07.000 So, it's very clearly available.

00:54:10.000 I mean, before language.

00:54:11.000 Okay, that's what I think.

00:54:12.000 I've been thinking that a lot lately.

00:54:14.000 And one of the things that I've been thinking is one of the things that we've noticed like, I think phones and the internet and the computers are an amazing thing.

00:54:24.000 You can acquire so much information, you can learn about things, you can encounter new people.

00:54:29.000 There's so much stuff that's great about the internet. 0.96

00:54:33.000 The bad thing is a lot of people have a much shorter attention span now because of social media, and then Now they're demonstrating that through use of large language models, a lot of people are actually getting dumber.

00:54:46.000 Yes, they've noticed it already.

00:54:48.000 Well, they've studied it, and especially children, they're actually less capable of solving problems themselves because they always turn to a computer and have the computer solve a problem.

00:55:02.000 The more I think about that and the more I look at that, I go, well, what is language?

00:55:04.000 Language is a technology, and language is a technology that allows you to say things with your mouth, and I know what you're thinking.

00:55:12.000 Maybe before that existed, we had an understanding of what we were thinking.

00:55:19.000 Some sort of a weird psychic connection that we all believe that people have with each other in some way or form.

00:55:27.000 And some of it's, you could demonstrate some of it, you know, but most of it is just intuition and feeling.

00:55:34.000 And I always wonder, like, is this atrophied?

00:55:35.000 Like, before we could talk, when we were just these bipedal hominids with, you know, larger brains and all the other mammals and these weird abilities to be curious and figure out things and develop tools, like, what was consciousness like?

00:55:50.000 Before language, before written language, you didn't have a word for dog and tree.

00:55:55.000 And like, what was it that was going on in your head?

00:55:59.000 If you don't like, you think in your head, I think in my head in a voice, yeah, you know.

00:56:05.000 And they say some people don't have an internal voice.

00:56:07.000 You don't have an internal voice?

00:56:08.000 I have pictures.

00:56:09.000 Oh, that's interesting, yeah, really.

00:56:13.000 Yeah, I sometimes wonder about that if that's why I can do the remote view only pictures, feelings.

00:56:20.000 Oh, I have a whole dude in my brain.

00:56:22.000 Yeah, I've heard that most people have that.

00:56:25.000 No, I don't think it's most people.

00:56:26.000 Really?

00:56:26.000 I think it's kind of.

00:56:28.000 Is it your voice?

00:56:30.000 Oh, it's not me.

00:56:31.000 I mean, it may not be.

00:56:31.000 No.

00:56:32.000 Is it like your dad?

00:56:33.000 No, no, no, no.

00:56:34.000 Is it a guy?

00:56:35.000 Yeah, it's like a general. 1.00

00:56:37.000 It's like someone's going, shut the fuck up. 1.00

00:56:37.000 Oh. 1.00

00:56:39.000 Like, go to work.

00:56:41.000 Do this.

00:56:41.000 What are you talking about?

00:56:42.000 Why are you being such a bitch? 1.00

00:56:43.000 So he's kind of a jerk. 1.00

00:56:45.000 No, He's right. 1.00

00:56:47.000 Always.

00:56:49.000 My voice is never wrong.

00:56:51.000 My inner self correcting voice is always correct.

00:56:54.000 It's always right.

00:56:55.000 It's always like.

00:56:57.000 It's, I mean, if you wanted to get really crazy, you would say it's like a guardian angel in your brain that's steering you in the right direction.

00:57:07.000 But if I've done something wrong in my life, made a mistake in my life, said something I shouldn't have said, that voice berates me.

00:57:14.000 Wow.

00:57:15.000 So that seems hard.

00:57:16.000 No, it's good.

00:57:17.000 It's great.

00:57:17.000 I mean, like, but.

00:57:18.000 No, you got to get over it.

00:57:19.000 Well, but that's how you learn.

00:57:21.000 Well, I mean, let's talk about that.

00:57:26.000 Okay.

00:57:28.000 Because when people go through hard things, one way to learn is like. 0.89

00:57:31.000 Berating. 0.81

00:57:32.000 Uh huh.

00:57:34.000 But that's kind of like not as sustainable as forgiving yourself and deciding that you can, figuring out how you can do better.

00:57:42.000 I mean, is berating really the best?

00:57:44.000 I think you have to feel pain from mistakes.

00:57:47.000 But don't you already feel the pain?

00:57:49.000 No, you got to really feel it.

00:57:50.000 Do you feel like the only pain?

00:57:51.000 I don't like making mistakes twice.

00:57:53.000 And the best way to not make a mistake twice is to have the first one suck so bad that you never want to go through that again.

00:57:59.000 For sure. 0.99

00:57:59.000 If it doesn't really suck, make it suck in your head. 0.99

00:58:02.000 But does it already? 1.00

00:58:03.000 Does it? 0.99

00:58:04.000 I feel like it already sucks. 1.00

00:58:05.000 Without a guy telling you that it sucks. 0.98

00:58:07.000 Well, it's not, I mean, I'm kind of exaggerating. 0.89

00:58:10.000 It's not just that, but it's like, it's not even like you're, it's not pejoratives.

00:58:15.000 It's not, you know, insults. 1.00

00:58:17.000 You're a fucking loser. 1.00

00:58:18.000 It's like, you fucked up. 1.00

00:58:21.000 You did this. 1.00

00:58:21.000 You were supposed to do that. 1.00

00:58:24.000 You were supposed to get something done.

00:58:26.000 You didn't get it done. 0.99

00:58:27.000 You were supposed to do this, but you fucked it up. 0.99

00:58:29.000 Like, don't fuck it up again. 1.00

00:58:31.000 This is what you did wrong. 0.99

00:58:32.000 Don't do that again.

00:58:34.000 I get it.

00:58:34.000 This is what you could have done right.

00:58:36.000 It's like your conscience.

00:58:37.000 It is like a conscience, but it's very strong.

00:58:40.000 It's very loud.

00:58:42.000 Yeah.

00:58:43.000 And I have to learn how to sometimes ignore it and just calm.

00:58:47.000 Otherwise, I won't sleep.

00:58:48.000 It's going to be too harsh.

00:58:48.000 Right.

00:58:49.000 Yeah.

00:58:50.000 But it doesn't, like, I don't hate myself or anything like that.

00:58:52.000 It's not that.

00:58:53.000 But it's just, like, honest.

00:58:57.000 It's just an honest assessment of everything that I've ever done.

00:58:57.000 Yeah.

00:59:01.000 Ever.

00:59:02.000 Yeah.

00:59:02.000 That sounds like instant karma.

00:59:05.000 Yeah.

00:59:06.000 Yeah.

00:59:06.000 In a way.

00:59:07.000 But it works.

00:59:08.000 It works.

00:59:09.000 And I think it makes me a better person.

00:59:11.000 I'm better than I would have been if I didn't have that self correcting mechanism.

00:59:16.000 There's this poem by this mystic, and I forget her name.

00:59:19.000 But at the end of it, she says, At the end of the day, I always bring to my mind all the people that I was kind to, and then I can fall asleep.

00:59:31.000 And so, if you know that's another way to do it, right?

00:59:34.000 If you know that at the end of the day, you have to look in the face of all the people that you were kind to so you can fall asleep, then that kind of makes your day.

00:59:44.000 That, yeah, no, definitely.

00:59:46.000 And I think I always tell people that being kind and being generous is kind of selfish.

00:59:52.000 Because exactly.

00:59:52.000 Yeah.

00:59:53.000 Because you feel better.

00:59:54.000 Yeah, you do.

00:59:55.000 You feel better about yourself.

00:59:56.000 You feel better about life.

00:59:57.000 You feel better about everything.

00:59:58.000 It's actually a good thing to do to be kind and generous.

01:00:01.000 And that's like counter to like, you shouldn't think that way.

01:00:04.000 No, you should just be kind and generous.

01:00:07.000 I agree.

01:00:08.000 But also, you benefit from it.

01:00:10.000 And I think the more people understand that you benefit, the more people are likely to behave in that way and it'd be better for everybody.

01:00:17.000 So, back to the language thing.

01:00:19.000 So, this actually, to me, relates to the language thing.

01:00:22.000 If you develop language, You are more aware of what you're thinking in a certain sense if you think linguistically.

01:00:32.000 But you also, in a way, sort of dampen down, as you say, and I agree with you that there's a trade off there.

01:00:39.000 You dampen down the sort of instant knowledge of how people around you are feeling, like that telepathy thing.

01:00:46.000 So I keep looking at this skull, right?

01:00:49.000 And so what we know, I don't think, but I don't think we've lost it.

01:00:52.000 So you had this idea that we've lost.

01:00:55.000 That psychic stuff.

01:00:56.000 I think it's absolutely there.

01:00:58.000 And I think it's neuroscientifically defensible that it's there, but that language actually suppresses it.

01:01:04.000 So, yeah, atrophies it.

01:01:05.000 It doesn't atrophy it.

01:01:07.000 It's like you can actually use.

01:01:09.000 So, okay.

01:01:10.000 So, there's this cool result from this guy in Baycrest.

01:01:13.000 His name's Morris Friedman.

01:01:15.000 And he's a neurologist there up in Canada.

01:01:19.000 And he noticed in his stroke patients that if they had lesions here, So, their stroke kind of messed up this area here, left frontal orbital area of the brain in the cortex, that they seemed to be more psychic, like he didn't know how to explain it.

01:01:38.000 So, he did an actual experiment where he tried to get people to move with their minds an arrow on a computer screen.

01:01:47.000 So, there was no mouse, there was no way to move it.

01:01:49.000 They just had to look at the arrow and say, move to the left or move to the right and wish it to happen, and using their intention, right?

01:01:57.000 So, the people who had the strokes there were able to do it statistically significantly.

01:02:03.000 People who had the strokes over here were not able to do it.

01:02:06.000 So, can I pause you here?

01:02:07.000 What was actually moving the cursor?

01:02:09.000 So, he had a random number generator hooked up to the directory.

01:02:12.000 So, the cursor was kind of like shaking.

01:02:14.000 And the random number generator would make it deviate to the left or to the right.

01:02:18.000 So, the person was effectively changing the random number generator.

01:02:20.000 How often?

01:02:22.000 Enough so that it was statistically significant.

01:02:24.000 What is statistically significant?

01:02:26.000 So, what you would do is.

01:02:27.000 Sure, you would have a control.

01:02:29.000 So you have the try period where you say to the person, try to move it to the left, try to move it to the right.

01:02:35.000 And then you have the control period where you say, you know, read a book like you're not trying.

01:02:39.000 And you compare the amount, the distance and the amount of time it's spent in the intended direction to the reading a book time.

01:02:46.000 And if it's, you can, you know, there's statistical tests you can use to determine whether it was spending time in the intended direction more often when it was intended.

01:02:55.000 But how much more often?

01:02:59.000 A number that's statistically significant.

01:03:01.000 So I guess, so it's like imagine 5%, 10%.

01:03:05.000 Oh, I forget what the actual quantitative number is.

01:03:07.000 But that would be interesting to know.

01:03:09.000 It totally would.

01:03:10.000 And whether or not it would change with different humans.

01:03:10.000 I just don't know.

01:03:13.000 I agree.

01:03:14.000 But then he replicated it.

01:03:16.000 Instead of looking at stroke patients, he looked at transcranial magnetic stimulation, which turns down activity.

01:03:24.000 So he put that over here.

01:03:26.000 So he's putting that over the left area.

01:03:28.000 And to turn that down, And again, these are not people who have had strokes, just regular people, you and I.

01:03:35.000 They were able to do this with their minds.

01:03:37.000 So it's just sitting there.

01:03:40.000 His explanation is that the left orbital frontal area is, we know that it inhibits the right frontal area, and we know that the right orbital frontal inhibits the left.

01:03:53.000 And his explanation is this stuff is going on in the right hemisphere, or at least is dominated by that.

01:04:00.000 And when you suppress it, it You're not as psychic, and when you release the suppression, you are more psychic, and it's just right under the surface, it's right there.

01:04:09.000 And so, when I work with non speaking autistic kids, it feels to me like that's a pretty good explanation of what's going on.

01:04:19.000 They're not activating this part as much.

01:04:22.000 I'm not that I've proven this, this is a hypothesis, and I'm not the only one with the hypothesis, but they're not activating this part as much.

01:04:30.000 We know that because this is where speech is over here, right?

01:04:34.000 These areas in the left.

01:04:37.000 And so, therefore, this area can be a little bit more free.

01:04:39.000 So, the psychic stuff is coming out.

01:04:41.000 Huh.

01:04:43.000 Well, that's one of the weird things that they've demonstrated about certain psychedelics like psilocybin.

01:04:48.000 You would think that it just like turns on your mind and all the synapses are firing.

01:04:52.000 No.

01:04:52.000 Dampens.

01:04:53.000 Yeah.

01:04:54.000 Which is very weird.

01:04:55.000 Yeah.

01:04:56.000 Because it makes you think, like, what are we doing with the mind?

01:04:58.000 Yeah.

01:04:59.000 Or the brain, I should say, not the mind.

01:05:01.000 Well, and the brain is related to the mind in ways we don't understand.

01:05:04.000 And then it's sometimes not related to the mind, right?

01:05:07.000 Like in the psilocybin results, you're having all these experiences.

01:05:11.000 But the brain is dampened.

01:05:12.000 What's going on?

01:05:13.000 And there's the filter theory of consciousness says, well, consciousness is kind of like out there, almost like a radio signal, and your brain's kind of filtering it.

01:05:21.000 Yes.

01:05:22.000 So that then you have this simple, like, oh, pick up the cup and say the words.

01:05:27.000 And you can kind of live your life without realizing that person over there is having this experience and that's going on.

01:05:32.000 And then in the future, this will happen. 0.99

01:05:35.000 So it makes sense to me that it's like our conscious minds, in order to just deal with daily life, have to be kind of stupid. 0.98

01:05:44.000 And then, right, because otherwise you'd be overwhelmed by all the data and possibilities. 0.99

01:05:48.000 It's so much.

01:05:49.000 You're in the universe.

01:05:51.000 It's so much data.

01:05:52.000 Multicellular creatures all around you and subatomic particles.

01:05:56.000 Well, yeah. 0.99

01:05:57.000 And then, and that's, and when we're working with, I work with a whole team that works with non speaking autistic kids, like in telepathy tapes. 0.58

01:06:04.000 And when we're working with them, like they get distracted by that stuff. 0.85

01:06:07.000 Like they'll say, you know, I'm distracted.

01:06:10.000 When I say say, I mean, they're, you know, Typing on a letterboard or a keyboard, you know, there's spirits in the room, or, you know, I'm thinking about what you did earlier today that I didn't know about, but I do know about because I'm telepathic.

01:06:24.000 And so it's like a lot of information that makes it pretty hard to be in the here and now. 0.67

01:06:28.000 Have any of those nonverbal autistic kids ever wrote something down where they couldn't possibly have known it? 0.95

01:06:36.000 Like what? 1.00

01:06:36.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:06:37.000 Oh, I can give you many examples.

01:06:39.000 In fact, do you want to?

01:06:41.000 I have a video of that.

01:06:42.000 Oh, sure.

01:06:43.000 Okay.

01:06:43.000 I have to walk you through the video.

01:06:44.000 Okay.

01:06:45.000 Yeah.

01:06:46.000 Do you have that over there?

01:06:46.000 I don't know.

01:06:48.000 I gave you like 18 things.

01:06:49.000 Oh, I. Give me a second.

01:06:53.000 Okay.

01:06:53.000 Sorry.

01:06:54.000 Let me explain the context.

01:06:54.000 So, so.

01:06:56.000 Okay.

01:06:57.000 So I met my research team partially through people I had already worked with and partially folks who Kai Dickens, creator of the Telepathy Tapes, introduced me to.

01:07:09.000 I had her on.

01:07:10.000 Yeah, I know.

01:07:11.000 It was a great show.

01:07:11.000 Very interesting.

01:07:12.000 And so I wanted to ask that question Can we use rigorous methods to have folks write down non speakers or spellers, whatever we want to call them?

01:07:23.000 I think non speakers or spellers are preferred.

01:07:26.000 Nonverbal kind of implies that they don't have language at all. 0.98

01:07:30.000 But the reality is they don't, they may speak, but they don't speak to communicate.

01:07:34.000 They use letterboards or keyboards.

01:07:38.000 I wanted to understand like, they're doing all these tests where they're repeating numbers and letters.

01:07:45.000 And that's interesting, but it doesn't really to me, I mean, the whole world of testing people for psychic abilities, it's not very interesting.

01:07:55.000 And if we presume that these students are actually pretty smart, It's got to be boring for them.

01:08:01.000 And so I thought, well, let's give them an opportunity to really show their stuff.

01:08:06.000 And so I set up this whole rigorous trial set.

01:08:10.000 And even the non speakers came on board and actually told us what they would like to see the stimuli be.

01:08:16.000 We want videos, we want music, we want words in the videos that are sung.

01:08:19.000 I mean, they just told us all these things that they wanted.

01:08:22.000 And by again, using the letterboards.

01:08:25.000 And we said, okay, we can do all that.

01:08:27.000 But the catch is the person who's sending.

01:08:31.000 The information is going to be in another room, maybe like 30 yards away with a closed door.

01:08:37.000 And you can work with your communication partner, but she is not going to know what the target is.

01:08:41.000 And she's going to have no idea what the target could be because she's never going to see any of the target videos that we'll use.

01:08:48.000 And so we were preparing for this and we were getting our software ready.

01:08:54.000 We were preparing for the formal trials that would be filmed for the documentary.

01:08:59.000 And so we were doing that on Zoom.

01:09:01.000 We weren't yet in person.

01:09:02.000 But the non speaker that I'm about to tell you about was.

01:09:05.000 With his communication partner, Maria Welch, who's a speech and language pathologist.

01:09:12.000 And he was getting ready to do the trial.

01:09:15.000 We were explaining it to him.

01:09:17.000 And I was in Virginia.

01:09:19.000 Maria and the student were in Illinois.

01:09:24.000 And then Jeff Tarrant, another co investigator, another neuroscientist, was in Oregon.

01:09:31.000 And so the person who was going to send the video, in other words, just intend to send the video like in a telephone.

01:09:39.000 Telepathy experiment was going to be Jeff.

01:09:41.000 The non speaker chose Jeff. 1.00

01:09:43.000 And then we did it.

01:09:47.000 We turned off our cameras.

01:09:48.000 We turned off our cameras.

01:09:48.000 We were on Zoom.

01:09:49.000 We turned off our microphones.

01:09:51.000 Jeff sent the video.

01:09:53.000 Maria and the student started, I don't know, intending to receive it.

01:09:58.000 And then the student said he was ready.

01:10:00.000 He spelled that he was ready.

01:10:02.000 And then Maria asked the question that I thought I had put in the Zoom chat for her because we didn't have our software set up.

01:10:09.000 So I had to send her a question in the Zoom chat.

01:10:12.000 And the way we traditionally did it at that time was I asked multiple choice.

01:10:18.000 Is it a this, this, this, or this?

01:10:21.000 But the thing is, by mistake, I sent that to Jeff because I had a private chat with him going.

01:10:25.000 So I didn't realize that she didn't have the questions.

01:10:28.000 Meanwhile, the student starts to spell on the letterboard.

01:10:32.000 He says, I'm ready.

01:10:34.000 He says, it's a beautiful sky.

01:10:37.000 And she had not seen the questions.

01:10:41.000 It was a beautiful sky.

01:10:43.000 Of all the videos in the world that he picked to describe that way, it was a video of the tops of trees and then above them, Like northern lights that had been colored by an artist to look even more cool.

01:10:56.000 And then there's like a time lapse.

01:10:58.000 And he said, It's art of a beautiful sky.

01:11:02.000 And that was a really great description.

01:11:05.000 And statistically, there's almost no way to calculate how statistically likely that is because it could have been any video in the world.

01:11:11.000 And we didn't even give him the multiple choice.

01:11:14.000 Whoa.

01:11:14.000 Yeah.

01:11:15.000 So actually, that's not the video I'm going to show you.

01:11:17.000 I just realized that I wanted to answer the question more directly.

01:11:20.000 The video I want to show you, if he can find it, Is one of what we call a telepathy train where the students, and this happened more than once when we were physically in town in Chicago as a team, where this one student comes in and says something, leaves, and the next student comes in with their mom and they check in.

01:11:42.000 You know, Maria always asks them, Would you like to check in?

01:11:45.000 And then they refer to the thing the last student was talking about.

01:11:51.000 And it happened in a really compelling way in this video because.

01:11:55.000 There was also a discussion that the first student who comes in, which I believe I'm calling participant four just for anonymity.

01:12:02.000 So, participant four comes in and asks, says he wants to go on a double date with participant five and his girlfriend.

01:12:10.000 And then he says, Tell his mom.

01:12:12.000 And then when participant five comes in, he says, Tell my mom I want to go on a double date with participant four and his girlfriend.

01:12:20.000 So, they clearly had already discussed this telepathically because I'm They're non speakers.

01:12:26.000 They're not talking to each other.

01:12:28.000 Their parents haven't talked to each other about this.

01:12:30.000 The parents don't know each other.

01:12:32.000 And so that happened.

01:12:37.000 And then they also passed on this.

01:12:38.000 I mean, so this stuff kept happening.

01:12:41.000 They also passed on this idea of slamming a beach ball on the ground in order to identify each of the videos because they wanted to get the telepathy signals right, but they were missing them on the formal trials.

01:12:56.000 So they discussed between themselves, apparently, telepathically.

01:12:59.000 If you slam a beach ball on the ground before we do the trial, then we'll focus on it in time and we'll go to the right timeline to talk about this is what they write down to get to the video in our minds.

01:13:12.000 And so that's the video that I wanted to show you if it's here, because I don't include the double date stuff in it because it's too private and they say too many names of other.

01:13:21.000 On the page I have, it says here's a link, but there's no link that I can find.

01:13:26.000 Oh, you know what?

01:13:27.000 If you go back to what you just saw and then say, I worked with my team to get out this response right away.

01:13:34.000 It includes a link to this video as well.

01:13:38.000 Yeah.

01:13:39.000 So that's the on the inalienable right.

01:13:42.000 Then if you go down.

01:13:44.000 I didn't see a video.

01:13:47.000 Go up.

01:13:49.000 Go down.

01:13:49.000 You're going too fast here.

01:13:50.000 Sorry, I'm just going to the top and then. 0.72

01:13:52.000 Yeah, so that's my mom and my other mom.

01:13:55.000 All right, scroll all the way down.

01:13:56.000 You got it.

01:14:01.000 Keep going.

01:14:02.000 This is all about the science stuff.

01:14:04.000 Okay, now stop right there.

01:14:05.000 Slow down.

01:14:07.000 And then now go a little bit more down.

01:14:11.000 Okay, go up.

01:14:13.000 Yeah.

01:14:14.000 Video the debrief.

01:14:16.000 You got it.

01:14:17.000 All right.

01:14:20.000 This is it?

01:14:20.000 Yeah.

01:14:21.000 Okay.

01:14:25.000 And that's Jeff and me on the right, and that's Maria.

01:14:27.000 Maybe someone else has questions to ask. 0.79

01:14:30.000 I was wondering if Ella is the best way to present the video so that.

01:14:36.000 The timing doesn't become a factor.

01:14:38.000 Like maybe he saw a video at a different time, but how could we make this one stand out so you know that's the one we're talking about?

01:14:45.000 Yeah, great.

01:14:46.000 That's kind of what I was going to ask.

01:14:49.000 And that's Natalia on the very left.

01:14:53.000 And so he's typing something into a keyboard right now?

01:15:06.000 He's typing into the keyboard.

01:15:08.000 Absolutely.

01:15:10.000 It's got electronic voice.

01:15:13.000 And the electronic voice is hard to hear.

01:15:15.000 So she'll repeat it.

01:15:16.000 And then I also have a little slide that shows what he said.

01:15:19.000 What did the voice say?

01:15:21.000 Slam.

01:15:26.000 Hey.

01:15:39.000 Slam a ball.

01:15:41.000 This is where he's giving us this idea to slam a ball on the ground to get him to the right timeline in telepathy trials.

01:15:49.000 It was his idea.

01:15:50.000 It never occurred to us.

01:15:53.000 That's before.

01:15:54.000 I picked up the F.

01:15:56.000 I don't know why.

01:15:58.000 Great.

01:15:58.000 Before.

01:16:05.000 By the way, Maria has a big crush on you. 0.98

01:16:10.000 She knows you're married, but she told me not to tell you.

01:16:15.000 Thanks.

01:16:16.000 Tara said thanks.

01:16:24.000 Video.

01:16:24.000 Okay.

01:16:24.000 Where or which person would be helpful to do that for the video?

01:16:34.000 No.

01:16:34.000 Okay, so this is the transcript of it.

01:16:36.000 Slam a ball before sending.

01:16:38.000 That's what he's saying.

01:16:39.000 Yeah.

01:16:40.000 Natalia says, Who should do that before the video is sent?

01:16:43.000 He says, Sender.

01:16:45.000 What kind of ball?

01:16:46.000 Slam a beach ball.

01:16:49.000 Why would that draw your attention to this timeline?

01:16:52.000 He says, Because I could see and hear it when looking in the future.

01:16:57.000 Does it matter how many times she slams it?

01:16:58.000 He says, Before each video, once.

01:17:01.000 Yeah.

01:17:02.000 So the slamming of the ball allowed him to look into the future, is what he was saying?

01:17:06.000 He was hoping that would work because he had just failed a telepathy trial and he said I was on a different timeline.

01:17:12.000 And we said, So how can we get you?

01:17:14.000 On this timeline, and he said he made up this idea of slamming a beach ball.

01:17:19.000 And what we found fascinating about it was, you know, that's an original idea that none of us thought about.

01:17:26.000 But then we also found it fascinating because of what you'll see next, which is the next person who comes in who, of course, hadn't heard any of this.

01:17:35.000 This is another participant, participant five, and Natalia's one.

01:17:40.000 Participant four arrives after participant five leaves.

01:17:43.000 He has to go on a double date with participant five and his girlfriend.

01:17:46.000 Something participant five asked about participant four already.

01:17:50.000 He also brings up something participant five mentioned about how to make the telepathy work better.

01:18:09.000 What is that voice?

01:18:10.000 That's him.

01:18:13.000 He's able to type and do this sort of sing song talking at the same time.

01:18:21.000 Now, did you see how Natalia just does that little shrug? 1.00

01:18:25.000 It would be good to try the beach ball slam.

01:18:26.000 So, no, he didn't hear that other conversation at all.

01:18:29.000 He wasn't in the room.

01:18:31.000 Where was he?

01:18:32.000 So, he was at home with his mom.

01:18:33.000 So, he came in after we had a 20 minute break between the participants.

01:18:36.000 So, he wasn't anywhere near the building.

01:18:39.000 There's no way he could have known.

01:18:40.000 That's why Natalia gave that shrug.

01:18:42.000 Like, see, she and Maria see this all the time where students will all be talking about the same thing.

01:18:50.000 So, he just comes in and says the beach ball slam would be a good idea.

01:18:53.000 Yeah.

01:18:53.000 So he just has to.

01:18:54.000 It's as if he was in that conversation.

01:18:57.000 Whoa.

01:18:57.000 Yeah.

01:18:57.000 And this is, it is like they are all in the same conversation.

01:19:04.000 And it is so, it's hard to think about what it would be like, but it's becoming more and more clear to me that it would be very difficult to just be in this conversation where the words are coming out of our mouths if you also are just having all these conversations with other people.

01:19:21.000 Right.

01:19:22.000 I mean, it's like an incredible focus.

01:19:23.000 And so the work that he has to do.

01:19:25.000 To type, and then he's also using his sing song voice, and he's clearly having some kind of conversation in his head.

01:19:33.000 It's incredible focus that they're actually having to do.

01:19:36.000 And many of them have dyspraxia.

01:19:38.000 So their bodies, it's hard for them to control their bodies, which is part of the speech issue.

01:19:43.000 And so I just think they're all gifted.

01:19:47.000 I mean, at this point.

01:19:49.000 Right.

01:19:49.000 But there's that thing that they kept talking about in the telepathy tapes where they all meet psychically on the hill.

01:19:55.000 Yeah.

01:19:58.000 So I had to.

01:19:58.000 And they all talk about it independently.

01:20:00.000 Like it's not something that has been taught to them.

01:20:02.000 Like, do you meet on the hill?

01:20:03.000 Oh, yeah, I do.

01:20:04.000 No, they've.

01:20:05.000 They've talked about it independently, which is very weird.

01:20:07.000 Right.

01:20:08.000 And one way, so, odd concept.

01:20:09.000 Well, I turn on my scientist hat when I think about that and I think, okay, well, they could have heard it on the telepathy tapes and then they started talking about it.

01:20:18.000 But that's not how it seemed to have worked.

01:20:21.000 But I have my own experience of that particular student.

01:20:24.000 I forget whether I called him participant four or participant five at the end.

01:20:28.000 He and I became, I had a good understanding of his mind and we had some good conversations.

01:20:34.000 And I had a dream one night where, He came to me, and all he did was show me this like it was like a sun where you could see the sunspots, and it was just slowly turning, and it was beautiful.

01:20:49.000 And he just gave it to me.

01:20:51.000 And then the next day, I was working with him over Zoom.

01:20:54.000 And so I asked Maria, I said, Can I ask him a question?

01:20:57.000 And she said, Sure.

01:20:58.000 And I said, Last night, you gave me something.

01:21:02.000 You gave me a shape.

01:21:04.000 What was the shape?

01:21:05.000 Because I hadn't told Maria about the dream or anyone else.

01:21:08.000 It was just my dream that I wrote in my journal.

01:21:11.000 And I was thinking he would say ball or sphere, and that would either be a good guess or it would be telepathy.

01:21:17.000 But he goes, I still can't get over this.

01:21:23.000 I sent you a pre revolutionary orb with four stars on it slowly rotating.

01:21:34.000 What is a pre revolutionary orb? 0.98

01:21:35.000 I don't fucking know. 0.99

01:21:37.000 I don't know. 0.98

01:21:38.000 With four stars on it?

01:21:40.000 With four stars on it slowly rotating.

01:21:42.000 But that's not exactly what you saw in the dream.

01:21:44.000 Well, there were these sunspots.

01:21:46.000 So, see, there's a poetic license that they have.

01:21:54.000 I would say that's 80% correct.

01:21:57.000 So, it was slowly rotating, and there were these sunspots that I was calling sunspots, he was calling stars.

01:22:04.000 And it was definitely an orb.

01:22:06.000 What does pre revolutionary mean?

01:22:07.000 I don't know.

01:22:08.000 They talk about, and I talk about in my book, The Love Revolution, this idea that we're moving towards a time when we can actually.

01:22:15.000 Use love in our lives to communicate and to connect people.

01:22:20.000 But maybe that's what he means.

01:22:23.000 And then, so that's one instance.

01:22:25.000 So I sort of go, okay, that was interesting.

01:22:27.000 And it kind of blew my mind that he used that language.

01:22:29.000 He's very, he's just gifted at interesting language.

01:22:33.000 And then this other non speaker who worked with Natalia, who is the young woman you saw on the left, who also works with a lot of spellers, just decided to start reading my mind.

01:22:46.000 Like we did, he started.

01:22:48.000 I asked Natalia, I said, can we just do an experiment where I'll be doing something and I'll know what I'm doing at that time?

01:22:55.000 And you just ask one of your students to read my mind and then no one else will know what I'm doing and she won't know what I'm doing.

01:23:01.000 And so, what I was doing was doing this remote viewing for a friend.

01:23:05.000 And so, I knew exactly what I was doing during that time and what I was thinking.

01:23:09.000 But what I was thinking about was remember that comet, Three Eye Atlas?

01:23:15.000 So, I was thinking, I was kind of obsessively thinking about Three Eye Atlas, like, what is it?

01:23:18.000 What's the deal?

01:23:19.000 You know?

01:23:20.000 It was during that exact time in December last year.

01:23:23.000 And he comes back with some stuff I don't understand, like poetic license.

01:23:30.000 I call it poetic license, or just it's wrong, that I don't understand where it came from.

01:23:33.000 And then he says, Oh, and three eye atlas.

01:23:38.000 And he talks about this owl that I saw in a video when I was doing the remote viewing.

01:23:44.000 And I was like, So Natalia didn't even know what three eye atlas was.

01:23:47.000 She had to look it up.

01:23:49.000 And the parent didn't know what three eye atlas was.

01:23:51.000 And he spelled it three E Y E atlas, right?

01:23:54.000 Wow.

01:23:55.000 So it was phonetic.

01:23:57.000 Yeah.

01:23:58.000 And then later, a couple of weeks ago, I get a text from Natalia that this same student, who apparently has.

01:24:04.000 Now, I felt perfectly fine reading my mind.

01:24:07.000 Tapped into my mind when I was thinking about a medication that my stepmom was taking.

01:24:12.000 And he used her name, which Natalia didn't know, and told me that she would be okay on the medication, that it would help her.

01:24:19.000 And then told Natalia to text me, and so she did.

01:24:21.000 The three eye atlas in writing it as EYE is very strange.

01:24:27.000 Well, that's hard.

01:24:29.000 Because that's not how it's written anywhere.

01:24:31.000 Yeah.

01:24:32.000 Right.

01:24:32.000 So the fact that he wrote it, I EYE, means he was hearing you.

01:24:36.000 Is how.

01:24:37.000 It's how you would hear it. 0.97

01:24:38.000 What the hell? 0.84

01:24:39.000 Yeah. 0.77

01:24:40.000 So there's no way I can explain.

01:24:40.000 How weird.

01:24:42.000 Also, he came up with my son's name, which Natalia didn't know.

01:24:46.000 So that could have been from her.

01:24:47.000 But still, he read her mind.

01:24:49.000 Did you ask him more about this pre revolutionary orb with four stars?

01:24:53.000 Like, why did you give me that?

01:24:54.000 What does that mean?

01:24:56.000 I wish I did.

01:24:57.000 One thing I know with this particular participant is that he's so gifted, and his family asks him a lot, like, about to do mediumship stuff, like, What does grandpa think about this or whatever?

01:25:10.000 And in fact, grandpa's dead.

01:25:12.000 Yeah.

01:25:13.000 And to him, there's not a lot of difference.

01:25:15.000 And so, and so, yeah.

01:25:19.000 And they also, like the grandmother had a lung transplant and they asked who the donor was.

01:25:25.000 And he identified a probable donor who lived in the area who had died that day.

01:25:30.000 And they won't know for a year if it was the actual donor because it takes time to learn who the donor is, but they're pretty sure that it probably is.

01:25:38.000 But So, boy, if it turns out that he's right and you can't find out for another year, yeah, or they won't release the information, well, you know, yeah, my husband had a double lung transplant.

01:25:49.000 It just takes a while, everyone has to agree that they want to release the information.

01:25:53.000 But, um, in any case, he's just really good at this, like, he's very skilled.

01:25:59.000 And I didn't want him to feel like he was a show pony, and I wanted to get on with his lesson, and so I didn't want to ask other questions.

01:26:06.000 I feel like, you know, he'll probably just show up in my dream and tell me at some point, yeah, but do you think that he even.

01:26:13.000 Would think of himself as a show pony?

01:26:15.000 Like, wouldn't it just be communication?

01:26:17.000 He doesn't, but I didn't.

01:26:19.000 Also, I wanted, like, I feel like I would want to know.

01:26:23.000 Of course, I wanted to know, but also I just.

01:26:23.000 Why'd you give me a call?

01:26:25.000 What's pre revolutionary?

01:26:26.000 What do you mean?

01:26:27.000 I agree.

01:26:27.000 I mean, he's the kid who.

01:26:29.000 I mean, there are some.

01:26:31.000 We worked with six kids.

01:26:32.000 They're all gifted and amazing, but he's one that showed up in telepathy tapes as.

01:26:38.000 I don't know if you remember this story.

01:26:40.000 It's so wonderful.

01:26:42.000 His teacher, so Maria, what she does is like they'll read a paragraph about a topic.

01:26:47.000 And then he'll ask the students, like, okay, let's talk about the topic, just like in school, but he has to spell out his answers.

01:26:54.000 And so I think the topic was like Gothic art.

01:26:57.000 And so, excuse me, I'm going to have a drink of water.

01:27:04.000 So the topic of the paragraph was Gothic art.

01:27:07.000 And she says, so, you know, what was the purpose of Gothic art?

01:27:12.000 And he said, oh, it aphorizes the masses.

01:27:16.000 And she says, I don't think that's a word.

01:27:19.000 And then she thinks, well, I better look it up because he says it's a word.

01:27:23.000 And so she looked it up, and it was only a word that was used in the 1600s.

01:27:32.000 Oh my God.

01:27:34.000 And it means like it appeases them.

01:27:36.000 So he wrote out, it means it calmed them down.

01:27:41.000 And she said, Well, how do you know about the word?

01:27:43.000 It was only used in the 1600s.

01:27:44.000 He said, Or the 1400s or something.

01:27:46.000 And he writes out, Oh, I was talking with a magistrate from that time period.

01:27:54.000 So, like, What do you do with that?

01:27:59.000 What do you do with that?

01:28:01.000 Except for maybe state that there's something going on we don't understand and it deserves more study and these students shouldn't be dismissed.

01:28:11.000 Now, is he, I don't know if you even asked this, but is he communicating with people in a different timeline or is he communicating with disembodied souls that no longer live in that timeline but still contain consciousness?

01:28:30.000 So.

01:28:31.000 My experience of him and several other people who are non speakers is that there's really not a lot of distinct.

01:28:36.000 Like, it's hard for them to know if someone's alive or dead because they're not spending too much time in the physical, right?

01:28:44.000 They're not spending too much time.

01:28:45.000 We spend all this time in the physical, and that's what seems to be real and important to us.

01:28:50.000 But to them, it's like when I brought up that someone he mentioned, he said, Oh, I was just talking to the JP, who was another non speaker.

01:28:58.000 And I said, Oh, were you sad when JP died?

01:29:01.000 And he said, Oh, I didn't know he was dead.

01:29:04.000 Because you're just talking to him.

01:29:07.000 He's just talking to him.

01:29:08.000 And it does seem to be on this timeline because there's information that they say.

01:29:14.000 Well, again, this is their experience, but their experience is that they get contemporary information.

01:29:20.000 Like JP saw his mother do this and he's happy that she's doing that.

01:29:25.000 And that happened two years after he died.

01:29:28.000 Wow.

01:29:30.000 So JP was relaying information about his mom two years after he died.

01:29:35.000 Wow.

01:29:38.000 He gets around.

01:29:43.000 God, that's so weird.

01:29:45.000 Oh, and that was this student's story about it.

01:29:47.000 It's so hard not to say his name, but that was this student's story about it.

01:29:51.000 But, as we know from people who study mediumship, like the Windbridge Institute or the Windbridge Research Center and places like that that study mediumship, there's this big argument about their experiences.

01:30:03.000 They're talking to dead people.

01:30:04.000 Are they actually just tapping into some kind of informational substrate that underlies everything, or are those the same thing?

01:30:11.000 Right.

01:30:12.000 Yeah.

01:30:12.000 Right.

01:30:12.000 So we're trying to differentiate so we could exist in this consciousness, in this form, in this reality.

01:30:19.000 And we think that this is it.

01:30:20.000 This is it.

01:30:21.000 This is locked down.

01:30:23.000 This is the box.

01:30:25.000 And it's not.

01:30:26.000 It's apparently, it looks like it's not.

01:30:30.000 It seems like it's not to them.

01:30:32.000 So then the question is what is it about being non speaking that allows them to have access to this?

01:30:40.000 Yeah.

01:30:41.000 Is it.

01:30:43.000 You know, is it like one of those things where, you know, people that can't see apparently they can hear much better?

01:30:49.000 Yeah. 0.68

01:30:49.000 You hear about that? 0.68

01:30:50.000 Yeah, yeah, sure, sure.

01:30:53.000 You know, there was this cool article recently came out in the New York Times about these singing mice.

01:30:59.000 So, Cold Spring Harbor researchers are studying these mice that sing at a frequency that we can hear, humans can hear.

01:31:06.000 All mice vocalize at ultrasonic frequencies when they're close to each other.

01:31:12.000 But when they're far away from each other, these singing mice will do this.

01:31:16.000 Singing.

01:31:17.000 And I guess they call it singing because it sounds like singing to us.

01:31:19.000 It's really communication, of course.

01:31:22.000 But they wait, they take turns.

01:31:25.000 You know, I'll sing and then you sing.

01:31:27.000 I'll sing and then you sing, just like you would in a conversation.

01:31:30.000 And they looked at what the difference was between regular laboratory mice who don't do this and these singing mice because they were thinking these ones have speech and these ones just do this other thing.

01:31:40.000 And there was very little difference.

01:31:42.000 They saw like some more fibers, but that's it.

01:31:45.000 So when you say singing mice, what do they do?

01:31:48.000 Like, Jimmy, Jimmy, play this.

01:31:51.000 Here we go.

01:31:55.000 Oh, hey, anything?

01:31:56.000 Do you hear it?

01:32:01.000 Yeah, you want to hear that chirping?

01:32:03.000 You need to hear that chirping?

01:32:05.000 Watch the audio wave here, it'll pop up here.

01:32:07.000 Look at the spectrogram on the one.

01:32:09.000 It's like it starts right after the four second mark.

01:32:13.000 That.

01:32:16.000 God, I barely hear that.

01:32:17.000 I need to turn my thing up.

01:32:19.000 I'll try it again.

01:32:20.000 Oh, my thing's really low.

01:32:22.000 Oh, yeah, there, I hear it.

01:32:25.000 Okay, that's it.

01:32:26.000 Okay, my volume is really low.

01:32:29.000 So that's singing mice.

01:32:30.000 They just make a little chirp, chirp.

01:32:32.000 Yeah, and so the reason I'm bringing that up is because if we can understand what gives mice the capacity to have this kind of communication and other mice the capacity that they don't have it, maybe we can understand non speaking autism versus sort of speaking autism or people who are neurotypical.

01:32:50.000 But it turns out that the difference just is in degree.

01:32:54.000 In other words, just a few more fiber tracks.

01:32:58.000 And so that's why I keep saying I don't think it's about something that's atrophied.

01:33:03.000 It's just like a slight difference allows us to speak.

01:33:06.000 Most people have that ability to speak.

01:33:08.000 People who don't are, I think, very much like that.

01:33:12.000 You get to be in contact with this information that is generally sorted out if you're using language more actively.

01:33:19.000 Like, you're like, I almost think that babies are probably telepathic.

01:33:25.000 I think that I'm wondering if that's how we learn language.

01:33:28.000 I keep thinking, like, we have so few exposures compared to an LLM.

01:33:32.000 We have very few exposures of, like, you know, death whistle.

01:33:36.000 Like, how many times do you hear that before you have to learn it?

01:33:38.000 If you're a baby, I have to, like, know that when you say apple, you're talking about the thing in your hand and not the 8,000 other things that are going on.

01:33:46.000 Right.

01:33:47.000 And I don't hear it that many times before I get that that's what an apple is.

01:33:50.000 And so.

01:33:50.000 Can you imagine if you could just go back and be a baby again before you learned language just to.

01:33:56.000 Just to exist and understand what thinking is like.

01:34:00.000 Well, I think, and then you wouldn't be able to understand it because everything would be like William James said, like blooming, buzzing confusion.

01:34:06.000 Right, but it would probably be if you could just, I mean, if you could access that memory to a time where you didn't understand language, but could you even do that?

01:34:15.000 I don't know.

01:34:16.000 And the thing is, like, the problem is you already understand language.

01:34:19.000 So how would you even be able to access it?

01:34:21.000 It's like those movie fantasies where you go back in time and you have all the wisdom you have now, but you get to experience being a kid again.

01:34:27.000 Like, that's the fantasy.

01:34:28.000 That would be amazing. 0.90

01:34:29.000 That's a coward's dream. 0.99

01:34:32.000 But isn't it nice sometimes to be a coward? 0.99

01:34:34.000 Nope. 0.99

01:34:35.000 No, that's a coward's dream.

01:34:37.000 Because it's like no one wants to make the mistakes that they made in high school.

01:34:39.000 Boy, if I could go back now, I'd be the king of the school.

01:34:43.000 No, you'd be a cheater.

01:34:45.000 You'd be playing video games on God mode.

01:34:47.000 I mean, that's how I made it through trauma as a kid.

01:34:51.000 That's how I made it through abuse.

01:34:52.000 I mean, like, that time travel therapy is a thing.

01:34:56.000 So going back and reliving your life as an adult who knows better and has information.

01:35:02.000 It really helps people.

01:35:03.000 Interesting.

01:35:03.000 Because you can love yourself from the future.

01:35:06.000 I think you're talking about a different thing, right?

01:35:08.000 You're talking about abuse and getting over abuse. 0.68

01:35:11.000 What I'm talking about is just general sucking at life.

01:35:14.000 Like, boy, if I could go back and do it again, I'd be so much better. 0.74

01:35:17.000 Oh, I understand.

01:35:18.000 That's different.

01:35:19.000 Now, this isn't going back and doing it again.

01:35:20.000 This is almost like the opposite.

01:35:22.000 This is like you're still there back experiencing it, making the bad choice or abuse or whatever it is.

01:35:28.000 But then your wiser self who's survived and who gets that it was a bad choice or who gets that it was abusive, you go back in time mentally and you see yourself.

01:35:38.000 So you're still there doing it, but it's like a second character is introduced in the timeline.

01:35:43.000 You see yourself and you go, you know what?

01:35:45.000 You're going to learn from this.

01:35:46.000 Things are going to get better.

01:35:48.000 You are loved.

01:35:49.000 It's going to be okay.

01:35:51.000 And that works regardless of whether it's a bad choice or whether it's abuse.

01:35:56.000 It's like you're doing the best you can no matter what.

01:35:59.000 Right.

01:36:01.000 That seems to make sense.

01:36:04.000 Like you're a human being that understands language back then.

01:36:07.000 If you go back to being a baby, oh, yeah.

01:36:10.000 Then you don't know language, but then people would be talking.

01:36:13.000 So what would you hear?

01:36:14.000 What would the sound?

01:36:16.000 Feel things, tell a person.

01:36:17.000 Right.

01:36:18.000 You would probably feel their intention or feel where they're coming from.

01:36:21.000 Feel their vibes.

01:36:22.000 It's like you know, like, you know how babies, even dogs will like, someone will give off vibes and they'll just be like, nope.

01:36:28.000 Yeah.

01:36:28.000 You know?

01:36:29.000 Yeah.

01:36:30.000 I think it's like that.

01:36:31.000 Yeah.

01:36:31.000 Dogs are really good at that.

01:36:32.000 Some dogs, not my dog.

01:36:34.000 I have a golden retriever.

01:36:35.000 Everybody's the best.

01:36:36.000 Oh, everyone's awesome.

01:36:38.000 Oh, no wonder you can have like a general in your brain.

01:36:40.000 You have a golden retriever who will love you forever.

01:36:43.000 Oh, he's the best.

01:36:44.000 He loves, everybody's his best friend.

01:36:45.000 Like, if he was in the room, he would just go from you, get pet.

01:36:48.000 By you, go over to Jamie, get pet by Jamie, come over to me.

01:36:51.000 He would just make the rounds.

01:36:52.000 You should bring him.

01:36:54.000 I do sometimes.

01:36:55.000 He's on the floor.

01:36:56.000 It's a carpet.

01:36:57.000 Oh.

01:36:57.000 See right there?

01:36:58.000 That's Marshall.

01:36:59.000 Oh, he's wonderful.

01:37:01.000 Golden Retrievers are the best emotional support animals.

01:37:03.000 Oh, they're so sweet.

01:37:04.000 They just love people.

01:37:05.000 Yeah, they love everybody.

01:37:06.000 I have a little dog too, a little King Charles Cavalier Spaniel.

01:37:11.000 And all he does is like attack Marshall, like bite his face.

01:37:11.000 Yeah.

01:37:15.000 And Marshall's so tolerant.

01:37:17.000 He just lays there. 0.76

01:37:18.000 This dog's licking his ear, licking his eyeballs, licking his face, and just kissing him and biting him.

01:37:23.000 And he just never gets upset, never growls, never says, get off me, just deals with it.

01:37:30.000 Oh, he's the sweetest.

01:37:30.000 I love that.

01:37:32.000 Yeah, I want a dog.

01:37:33.000 They're the best.

01:37:34.000 I love them.

01:37:34.000 I know.

01:37:35.000 I had a weird dream about my little dog.

01:37:38.000 My little dog was so little that I could hold him in my hand.

01:37:41.000 He's not that little, he's pretty little.

01:37:42.000 He's like that big.

01:37:43.000 But he was so little that I could hold him in my hand, and he was running into traffic.

01:37:47.000 And so I had to run into traffic and risk dying to grab this dog and pick him up and hold on to him and somehow or another not get hit by a car.

01:37:56.000 Oh, wow.

01:37:57.000 It was a very strange dream.

01:37:58.000 Was this recent?

01:37:59.000 Mm hmm.

01:38:00.000 Yeah.

01:38:00.000 But he didn't even look like him.

01:38:02.000 He looked like a chihuahua.

01:38:03.000 But I knew it was Charlie.

01:38:05.000 Huh.

01:38:05.000 Isn't that funny how in dreams you just know it's someone, even it could be someone else?

01:38:09.000 Yeah, I knew it was Charlie, but it didn't look like Charlie because he was so tiny.

01:38:12.000 He was like a mouse.

01:38:13.000 Like literally, I was holding him in my hand like a little baby mouse.

01:38:16.000 You know, that reminds me of that dream quality of someone being someone, like having the essence of them, but not looking like them.

01:38:25.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:38:25.000 Reminds me also of something I've noticed in the non speakers where they're not very good at labeling animals. 1.00

01:38:31.000 Like, Like camels and kangaroos might be the same. 1.00

01:38:36.000 It's like the physical form is not what's important.

01:38:40.000 It's just not what's important.

01:38:41.000 It's like the feeling on the inside.

01:38:44.000 To me, it's like proof of a soul or something.

01:38:47.000 I really think we ought to start studying souls scientifically because if we can show that, and this is, I didn't think we were going to talk about this, but wow, I'm sure that happens a lot.

01:39:00.000 But if we could start understanding what a soul is.

01:39:04.000 Right.

01:39:04.000 How would you quantify it?

01:39:05.000 Yeah, I don't know.

01:39:06.000 Right.

01:39:06.000 I mean, I think.

01:39:08.000 Maybe it's one of those things you just can't.

01:39:10.000 Maybe.

01:39:11.000 You can't study.

01:39:12.000 But if you understand, I guess I'm always coming back to the informational substrate because that's like my favorite concept.

01:39:17.000 But if you understand that underneath, if this is true, I sort of think this is true that underneath all of what we call physical reality, so space, time, matter, energy, is this informational substrate that it's almost like has all the information from the beginning of the universe to the end of the universe, like all of it, including like what you're thinking, feeling, et cetera, at this moment or other moments.

01:39:41.000 And if you could, I guess, insert information into it and read information from it, then I think maybe that means you have a soul.

01:40:01.000 Maybe that's what a soul is that which inserts information into that informational substrate.

01:40:07.000 So you change things in the world and read things from it, you perceive things in the world.

01:40:14.000 Maybe if you can do both of those things, it means that's what a soul is.

01:40:18.000 What makes you think that there's an informational substrate that contains all the information from the beginning of time to the end of time?

01:40:25.000 Yes, very good question.

01:40:29.000 It's just a feeling I have.

01:40:33.000 I'm not saying you're wrong.

01:40:34.000 I'm not saying I'm wrong either, but I'm not saying I'm right.

01:40:38.000 It's aesthetically pleasing to me to.

01:40:41.000 Okay.

01:40:43.000 It does seem like people, whether they're.

01:40:45.000 Non speakers or people who are particularly gifted at remote viewing or whatever can go to different times in space time or different places in space, different times in time and get information that seems like in this physical world you shouldn't be able to get, right?

01:41:03.000 I mean, that's what I've been studying and I've shown that that's the case at a rate greater than chance, especially if people are in a place of self transcendence or feeling love.

01:41:14.000 And so that.

01:41:16.000 Suggests that there's this sort of link about what we call God or love or universal love or this ineffable force.

01:41:27.000 I don't know what to call it.

01:41:28.000 Universal love, I'll call it.

01:41:31.000 It suggests that there's a link between sort of what happens in the universe and what we experience and what we do and what we intend and this universal love force.

01:41:40.000 So I want to, as a scientist, I'm like, how do you make a physics of love?

01:41:47.000 Think about it as something that I can think of as what I could do physics or math on.

01:41:52.000 And that would, the way that comes out is like this informational soup or something that has all that information there.

01:42:01.000 And then it is, we play with it throughout our lives.

01:42:06.000 Right.

01:42:06.000 But how would it have all the information from now to the end?

01:42:10.000 Because time doesn't work in this linear way that we're used to experiencing, right?

01:42:15.000 Like that's what precognition is showing us.

01:42:18.000 If you can get information about future events at a rate above chance, and I can do that, and other people can do that, and actually, most people can do that according to the statistics, and they're just not conscious of it, if your physiology is changing, then that means that information can leak backwards from the future.

01:42:37.000 Right, but can it leak backwards an infinite amount of time?

01:42:41.000 Like, could it link backwards all the way to the end of the universe where it dies of heat death?

01:42:45.000 And so, Jamie's bringing up this.

01:42:48.000 Oh, the Akashic records here, right.

01:42:49.000 I was going to bring that up.

01:42:50.000 Yeah, it's a modern esoteric term.

01:42:52.000 The idea of a cosmic library that stores every event, thought, feeling, and intention that has ever occurred, often said to be accessible through psychic or mystical means.

01:43:02.000 That has ever occurred, but what about forever in time in the future, the potential future?

01:43:07.000 Yeah.

01:43:08.000 So in theosophy and anthroposophy, what is that word?

01:43:16.000 Anthroposophy.

01:43:17.000 What does that word mean?

01:43:18.000 Yeah, what does that mean?

01:43:19.000 I don't know.

01:43:20.000 I don't get what anthroposophy means.

01:43:21.000 There's all these anthroposophists and they're related to the Waldorf people, but I don't totally understand.

01:43:26.000 It's perplexity, our AI sponsor trying to flex.

01:43:29.000 Oh, okay.

01:43:30.000 That's what it's doing.

01:43:30.000 It's flexing on us.

01:43:31.000 Showing us how smart it is.

01:43:33.000 They're described as a non physical compendium of all universal events, thoughts, words, emotions, and intents spanning past, present, and potential future.

01:43:43.000 So, potential future meaning forever.

01:43:45.000 So, the idea that we're somehow or another when these people are able to sense something that's going to happen or know about an image that's going to be displayed, that this small leap in the future of a few seconds or a minute or whatever it is.

01:44:04.000 It's also accessible forever.

01:44:06.000 It's like there's no distance.

01:44:09.000 That's.

01:44:10.000 If you just think about time as a landscape, imagine time as a landscape.

01:44:16.000 There's a mountain, there's a waterfall, there's a tree.

01:44:19.000 And we're used to just walking in single file in one direction in the landscape.

01:44:25.000 But if you fly a plane above, you could say, oh, I see on the other side of the mountain, there's this waterfall.

01:44:31.000 And so flying the plane above is like doing any of these mystical practices, like with the Akashic Records or doing remote viewing or.

01:44:39.000 Accessing that information, accessing the landscape in a different way, not through this linear sort of physical dimension or reality or whatever you want to call it, but through some other, like maybe you go to a different dimension.

01:44:52.000 I don't know how to think about it mathematically.

01:44:54.000 Maybe you go to a different dimension.

01:44:55.000 The thing about memory and consciousness and just the idea of future and time at all, everything is made out of matter, right?

01:45:04.000 We are made out of atoms.

01:45:06.000 Ideas aren't made out of matter.

01:45:08.000 No, but I'm going to get to that.

01:45:09.000 So the idea is that.

01:45:11.000 If we are made out of atoms, well, that means subatomic particles exist inside of us.

01:45:18.000 Subatomic particles are made out of magic.

01:45:21.000 Like what they do is they exist in superposition, they're moving, and they're still at the same time.

01:45:28.000 They can be quantumly connected to other particles that are nowhere near.

01:45:33.000 So, why wouldn't we think consciousness that exists, supposedly, at least if not exists, is tuned in by our own minds?

01:45:42.000 That somehow or another, that's probably connected in some weird, spooky action in a distance way.

01:45:48.000 Well, it's not even weird.

01:45:50.000 As you said, it's exactly what we're made of.

01:45:53.000 Right.

01:45:53.000 So we call it weird because we're trapped in this monkey mind.

01:45:58.000 We're trapped in this like linear.

01:45:59.000 Yeah.

01:46:00.000 Oh, it works like this.

01:46:01.000 Oh, the ball will always go in this direction.

01:46:03.000 We're trapped in that, but we are made of quantum particles, as you said, quantum wave particles.

01:46:09.000 And even, by the way, at the larger level than the subatomic particles, you have.

01:46:15.000 Chemicals in our body that are actually, you know, in quantum coherence or superposition.

01:46:20.000 Yeah.

01:46:21.000 And so, and in birds and in leaves.

01:46:23.000 I mean, that's how photosynthesis works.

01:46:24.000 So don't get me started on quantum computing because I get a little pissed off about this because, okay, I know we were talking about consciousness. 0.98

01:46:36.000 Shite. 0.97

01:46:37.000 All right. 1.00

01:46:37.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:46:38.000 I'll just go on my little train.

01:46:40.000 My heartbeat is going wild.

01:46:42.000 Is it?

01:46:43.000 Yeah.

01:46:43.000 Because this is really.

01:46:45.000 Something that is really important to me for some reason that I don't understand.

01:46:49.000 Quantum computing is our mistake, our current mistake with quantum computing.

01:46:55.000 What I believe to be the current mistake, okay?

01:46:57.000 Misunderstanding.

01:46:59.000 So, a leaf is using essentially quantum computing to do photosynthesis in a way that we can't replicate right now.

01:47:12.000 I mean, at room temperature, above room temperature, if it's out in the sun, right?

01:47:17.000 It's keeping these chemicals in superposition.

01:47:22.000 It is able to trap energy from photons better than anything that we have.

01:47:31.000 It's.

01:47:33.000 It's doing quantum computing without a lot of expense.

01:47:38.000 So, when we go and we decide that we want to be the first in quantum computing and we're going to invest all this money in like super cooling systems and very difficult to understand error correction methods and all these things, working on trapping single particles at the subatomic level, and that's how we're going to have to do it to force it into these patterns.

01:48:00.000 Like, come on, we're doing something wrong.

01:48:04.000 A leaf can do it outside in the sun and does it all the time.

01:48:10.000 We're doing something wrong.

01:48:12.000 So, I started thinking that way like 12 years ago and got really passionate about photons and how photons are kind of like this, almost like a link.

01:48:25.000 This is another thing that I'm going to say.

01:48:26.000 You're going to be like, why do you think this?

01:48:28.000 But regardless, it came into my mind that photons are kind of like a link between mind and matter.

01:48:34.000 Like they're not really.

01:48:37.000 Like you said, they're made of magic.

01:48:38.000 They're not really matter.

01:48:41.000 They don't have any mass.

01:48:43.000 You know, and they're actually bosonic particles.

01:48:45.000 So there's two types of particles.

01:48:48.000 One is a fermionic, named after Enrico Fermi.

01:48:51.000 And those are things we're used to, like protons, neutrons, electrons.

01:48:57.000 And then there's bosonic particles, which are things that generally, I think, none of them have any mass.

01:49:04.000 And they're very different.

01:49:06.000 Like the Higgs boson is one, photons.

01:49:08.000 As another example, photons are another example.

01:49:10.000 I think there's a version of helium that's also bosonic.

01:49:13.000 But what makes it bosonic is it can be in the same place at the same time as another bosonic particle, and then another one, and another one, and another one.

01:49:24.000 So, like, they kind of don't exist in physical reality.

01:49:26.000 It's like we have this idea that two electrons can't be in the same place at the same time, and they can't, but these can.

01:49:34.000 And so, it's almost like they're interacting in another dimension that's less physical.

01:49:39.000 And it seems Just interesting to me that we think a lot about what a photon would feel.

01:49:49.000 And I just keep thinking that there's some connection between what we call mind and what we call brain that has to do with photons.

01:49:57.000 So, anyway, I got obsessed with photons and I started thinking about the double slit experiment.

01:50:05.000 Does your audience know what that is?

01:50:07.000 Probably, but a refresher would probably be good for everybody.

01:50:09.000 Okay.

01:50:10.000 So, when I first told my husband about the double slit experiment, he's an artist.

01:50:10.000 Yeah.

01:50:15.000 He's like, ha ha ha ha.

01:50:16.000 Double slit.

01:50:21.000 I'm like, that never occurred to me because I'm like, I'm ready to explain it to him, and he's like, couldn't get off that.

01:50:27.000 But anyway, it was beautiful.

01:50:28.000 Peeves and butt heads.

01:50:28.000 Yeah, you said double slit.

01:50:33.000 So imagine there's like a flashlight at one end of a tube, and then there's like a photon detector at the other end of the tube.

01:50:42.000 And in between the flashlight and the photon detector are two slits, and they could be in cardboard or metal or whatever.

01:50:47.000 So there's two slits here, and they're very skinny.

01:50:50.000 And the reason I say they're skinny is because they're so skinny that if you turn down the light enough, only one photon is going to get through.

01:50:58.000 And it's going to have to choose between this slit or that slit.

01:51:01.000 And the weird thing is, if you do this over time, you'll see the pattern at the photon detector at the other end of the tube.

01:51:08.000 It'll look like an interference pattern.

01:51:12.000 What does that mean?

01:51:12.000 Oh, look at you.

01:51:13.000 Yeah, here it is.

01:51:15.000 So the electron beam gun, electrons, goes through the double slit, and at the end of it, you get this very bizarre pattern.

01:51:15.000 Yeah.

01:51:22.000 Yeah, and this pattern, and so I was talking about photons, but yeah, you can do it with electrons, you can do it with larger particles, but, and that doesn't matter.

01:51:31.000 But if you hear that one double slit up there is really good.

01:51:38.000 That's a good one.

01:51:39.000 Yes.

01:51:41.000 So there's two pieces of it that are weird.

01:51:45.000 The first bullet up there that you can't see on the screen, but is going to say that when you send a single particle one at a time, It has to choose between the slits, but it still seems to interfere with itself in space.

01:51:58.000 It's like it goes through both slits.

01:52:01.000 One particle goes in two places at once.

01:52:04.000 It's called non local in space.

01:52:06.000 It's non local.

01:52:07.000 In other words, it's not behaving like we're used to, it's not behaving like a billiard ball.

01:52:12.000 One thing is going through two slits.

01:52:15.000 So I kept looking at this and saying, well, it might be non local in space, but it could be non local in time.

01:52:24.000 And by that, I mean that if you put an electron or a photon in there, it could be interfering from the future, like with another electron or another photon that happens in the future.

01:52:36.000 And there's actually an experiment you can do to test that.

01:52:39.000 And I wanted to do the experiment.

01:52:42.000 So, first of all, did you understand what I just said?

01:52:45.000 Okay.

01:52:47.000 So, the way you could test that is look, if the photon that's going to, if the photon, I'm just, now I'm going to pretend I'm a photon.

01:52:57.000 I don't really like.

01:52:58.000 Thinking of photons traveling because I don't think they really travel.

01:53:01.000 But anyway, I'm going to pretend I'm a photon.

01:53:03.000 I just got shot out of this flashlight or this light bulb.

01:53:07.000 I'm traveling towards this light and I interfere with another photon that wasn't just shot out of the light bulb.

01:53:14.000 It's going to be shot out of the light bulb in the future, but it's just sort of hanging out there because it's floating around in time.

01:53:20.000 Is the actual light able to do one photon at a time?

01:53:24.000 Yeah, if you turn it down enough, it is.

01:53:26.000 How could you measure whether it's one photon?

01:53:28.000 You calculate.

01:53:30.000 You can just calculate the expected amount of light that should come through with the detector.

01:53:35.000 And it's that accurate down to a single photon?

01:53:39.000 Yeah, you can calculate based on the speed of light and the emission and where the detector is.

01:53:45.000 How much.

01:53:45.000 Okay.

01:53:46.000 So you can turn it down to that level.

01:53:46.000 Yeah.

01:53:51.000 And I think this experiment is like almost 100 years old.

01:53:57.000 So they were able to do that way back then.

01:54:01.000 So, imagine this photon gets shot out of this flashlight.

01:54:04.000 It interferes with another photon just like it from the future.

01:54:07.000 Just imagine that's possible.

01:54:10.000 If that's true, then in experiments where you have a lot of photons available to interact from the future, like in other words, the light is on for a long time, the interference pattern should show a different sort of pattern than if you don't have very many photons in the future, so the light's not going to be on a long time.

01:54:31.000 So, the experiment I wanted to do and that I did was look, just randomly determine how long this experiment's going to last.

01:54:38.000 How long are you going to leave this light on into the future?

01:54:42.000 And then look at the very first period of time.

01:54:45.000 Like, look at the first 30 seconds.

01:54:47.000 And after 30 seconds, you randomly choose are you going to turn this light off or are you going to leave it on for another two minutes?

01:54:53.000 In the first 30 seconds, can you determine what the choice is going to be based on the pattern?

01:54:58.000 If you can, that means this thing is interfering in time.

01:55:01.000 And it turns out you could.

01:55:05.000 So I ended up replicating that and replicating that and replicating that.

01:55:09.000 And then a friend at UC Berkeley, who teaches the advanced physics lab there, said, I want to set up my own equipment, do the exact same experiment.

01:55:18.000 I'm going to run it over a year.

01:55:20.000 And I'm going to see if I get the same result.

01:55:22.000 So he sent me his data.

01:55:24.000 He walked away.

01:55:25.000 I analyzed the data and I figured out the equation that relates the amount of future time after the decision to the detection pattern before the decision.

01:55:41.000 And so that's the kind of result that I think is going to actually shift quantum computing because you're working at room temperature with groups of photons rather than trying to trap them.

01:55:52.000 And you're treating them more like A giant unit, this unit in time, rather than this unit in space.

01:56:01.000 And so, actually, could I name drop my new company?

01:56:04.000 Yeah.

01:56:04.000 What were the results of his data?

01:56:06.000 Oh, that the same result happened.

01:56:09.000 I mean.

01:56:10.000 So, it really was that somehow or another the photons were able to predict the future.

01:56:15.000 Yeah.

01:56:16.000 Well, if you think of a box, okay, so think of a really deep well.

01:56:20.000 Let's think of a well with water in the bottom.

01:56:23.000 You cannot see, you can't look over the edge.

01:56:26.000 It's so deep, you don't know how deep it is.

01:56:28.000 So, you might drop something in it.

01:56:29.000 And then you listen for the ding, and you can have a sense of how deep it is.

01:56:34.000 It's a little like this.

01:56:35.000 You can't know in sort of with our eyes how long that experiment's going to last, but you're getting a little reverberation from the future in the photons.

01:56:48.000 It's like they're telling on themselves like, we've got a lot of future photons to interfere with, so we're going to behave in this way, or we don't have so many future photons to interfere with, we're going to behave in this other way.

01:56:58.000 One of the things that people are very familiar about, though, know about the double slit experiment is the idea of the observer and how the observer changes reality.

01:57:08.000 Yeah.

01:57:10.000 What do you think is going on there?

01:57:13.000 The word change is super telling because when you think of, when you were asking about timelines before.

01:57:21.000 So, uh, uh, hey, can you pull, can you pull up like a picture of timelines and, and, and retro, like a picture of retro causality?

01:57:30.000 Can you look at retro causality and put up a picture?

01:57:32.000 I want to, Well, let's say something about the word change because we have this idea of it was supposed to be like this, whatever it is.

01:57:41.000 It was supposed to be like that's a kind of a complicated one.

01:57:46.000 Oh, gosh, there's all these complicated ones.

01:57:52.000 There's a look, that path diagram.

01:57:58.000 Boom, boom, boom.

01:58:01.000 No, that's why are they all so complicated?

01:58:03.000 Let's do this now.

01:58:05.000 Well, what is it about them that's so complicated?

01:58:07.000 Well, because people don't really know how it works, and so they make all these different pictures of it.

01:58:12.000 Okay, I'm just, let's ignore that.

01:58:13.000 I'm just going to make a picture in our head.

01:58:15.000 Imagine a figure eight.

01:58:15.000 Okay, okay.

01:58:16.000 All right.

01:58:17.000 So we normally think of things just going like this.

01:58:19.000 Figure eight goes, oh, I go back.

01:58:21.000 Like that.

01:58:22.000 I get the information here and I bring it back.

01:58:25.000 Exactly.

01:58:25.000 And so it's more like time is doing that.

01:58:28.000 Our events are doing that, right?

01:58:30.000 So I guess, what was your original question, though?

01:58:33.000 I got obsessed with pictures of timelines, change.

01:58:37.000 Yeah.

01:58:37.000 Observer.

01:58:39.000 So the thing about changing something is if it was all, if it was, I like to use the word influence because if it was already always going to happen, you didn't change anything.

01:58:52.000 It's not like you're on a different timeline.

01:58:55.000 It's that the future influenced the past.

01:58:59.000 But the observer influences reality in the results of the tests.

01:58:59.000 Right.

01:59:05.000 So if you do an experiment.

01:59:07.000 Yeah.

01:59:08.000 So let me explain that effect.

01:59:09.000 So with the double slit experiment.

01:59:12.000 The result is if you that that indicates this, if you put a little detector by one of the slits, because you say, I'm going to trap one of those, I'm going to trap a photon or an electron, I'm going to figure out which slit it's going through.

01:59:24.000 So you put a detector at one of the two slits.

01:59:27.000 If it if you get a bing, it means it went through that.

01:59:29.000 If you don't get a bing, it went through the other one, right?

01:59:32.000 What happens is the actual outcome now looks different.

01:59:36.000 You don't get the same interference pattern, you get a single slit interference pattern as if it didn't, it wasn't non local in space or time.

01:59:44.000 It didn't interfere with itself and it just kind of like went through like a billiard ball.

01:59:48.000 Right.

01:59:49.000 And so that's where the observer effect comes in.

01:59:53.000 It's this idea that you have observed, you've tried to trap the photon during its flight.

01:59:58.000 So that's the other reason why I think that mind and photons are related is because there's something about the knowledge.

02:00:08.000 I almost, again, think of it informationally, but it's like you just gained knowledge about this system as our knowledge mechanisms of our mind.

02:00:17.000 You've just gained knowledge and it has now changed.

02:00:20.000 It's almost like the photons are part of mind.

02:00:23.000 So, of course, mind is affecting mind.

02:00:26.000 And so, mind observing the photon changes the path of the photon.

02:00:31.000 It changes mind, changes the behavior of the photon, changes what we see as a result.

02:00:37.000 It's like like affects like.

02:00:40.000 So, if photons are like mind and mind interacts with mind, now both minds are different.

02:00:44.000 You have gained this knowledge, the photon has gone into this different place.

02:00:48.000 Hmm.

02:00:52.000 It's the problem with it, it's so weird and so weird to think of that.

02:00:58.000 And observing something changes it, that it makes people start to consider okay, like if that's the case, how much of observing the known universe is a part of it existing?

02:01:15.000 It all of it, it's like this figure eight.

02:01:17.000 That's the thing, is that that's just a great example, it seems to me, of mind observing mind.

02:01:24.000 Your mind and my mind will never be the same after observing each other, just like with every other person we meet, right?

02:01:29.000 We're constantly changing.

02:01:31.000 We're like influencing.

02:01:32.000 We're constantly influencing each other.

02:01:34.000 Right.

02:01:35.000 And it is like this figure eight thing, carrying it back.

02:01:40.000 So I don't think there's any difference.

02:01:44.000 It's just that photons behave more like our minds.

02:01:47.000 So they're showing it to us, but electrons and, you know, anything that's doing the quantum thing.

02:01:53.000 And so.

02:01:54.000 Why do you think that we have a bad understanding of quantum computing?

02:02:00.000 Oh, I mean, no, I shouldn't.

02:02:02.000 This is how we started.

02:02:02.000 Yeah, not that we have a bad understanding of quantum computing.

02:02:05.000 We have a great understanding of what we are currently considering quantum computing.

02:02:09.000 Or maybe this is the way we're talking about it.

02:02:10.000 It's the approach.

02:02:12.000 No, it's the approach.

02:02:13.000 It's this approach of we're going to trap a single particle slash wave.

02:02:21.000 We're going to trap a single photon.

02:02:23.000 We're going to trap a single ion.

02:02:25.000 We're going to have it.

02:02:28.000 Behave in ways repeatedly according to these commands, these gates, these gating functions that they do.

02:02:37.000 We understand that.

02:02:39.000 The problem is, it seems to me it's forcing something that shouldn't behave that way, that doesn't naturally behave that way, to behave that way.

02:02:46.000 It's like we're trying to imitate classical computers with quantum computers, and we're not taking into account these group classical level properties that clearly a leaf uses when it's doing photosynthesis.

02:03:01.000 It's not building a super cooling system and trapping ions.

02:03:01.000 It has to.

02:03:06.000 It's functioning in this really wet physiological environment and it's doing just fine with quantum computation.

02:03:15.000 So it's more like the approach needs to become more naturalistic.

02:03:21.000 And I think it needs to take into account these temporarily non local phenomena like the one I discovered.

02:03:27.000 Well, aren't they considering that, at least partially, at least it's being discussed, that?

02:03:32.000 This many worlds interpretation of the results of quantum computing that something's happening that you can't account for in the known universe.

02:03:40.000 Something's happening with the scale of the equations that it's able to solve in the time span in which it's able to solve.

02:03:48.000 It's not possible that the same sort of process is going on that would occur if it was happening right here and right now.

02:03:55.000 That it seems that it's gathering the computing power.

02:03:59.000 Yeah, that's great.

02:04:00.000 That's the whole point of quantum computing is to capture that.

02:04:03.000 Yes, it could be multiple universes.

02:04:05.000 It could also be retrocausality.

02:04:08.000 And some people don't like the retrocausality answer.

02:04:10.000 I think that's actually more likely.

02:04:11.000 So the retrocausality thing would be that all time is happening in this figure eight loop.

02:04:16.000 And then somehow or another, this quantum computer is able to tap into that and have this infinite access to all potential future and past information.

02:04:26.000 Right.

02:04:27.000 And then I just think it's easier to do quantum computing if you take into account.

02:04:33.000 Excuse me.

02:04:35.000 If you take into account this retro causality piece and these group properties of particles at room temperature that can tell us about the future.

02:04:47.000 So, the idea that this does that include a many worlds interpretation of the universe?

02:04:56.000 Is that also there?

02:04:58.000 And is it possible that not only do you get the time of all time available instantaneously, that because it is a part of a loop and somehow another A quantum computer is able to tap into that, but not just this timeline in this loop in this universe, but multiple universes, infinite in fact, that all of their time is also available.

02:05:24.000 You know, maybe you the thing is, sorry, I'm just gonna have to drink more water.

02:05:28.000 No, that's okay.

02:05:29.000 There's water there in the glass too.

02:05:31.000 Yeah, want some?

02:05:32.000 There's coffee.

02:05:33.000 I get so excited about this stuff.

02:05:34.000 The thing is, good, great.

02:05:36.000 The thing is, you don't need both, and so it could be both.

02:05:42.000 I was just thinking this morning about how it could be both.

02:05:44.000 It could be both.

02:05:45.000 You could have these loops with the information retrocausally bringing it back, and you could have multiple universes of those loops.

02:05:53.000 Infinite loops.

02:05:55.000 But it's kind of like saying, like, you know how physicists really like to simplify things?

02:06:01.000 It's kind of like saying, we could do whatever we want.

02:06:05.000 We could paint a picture of a fairy who also does something, you know, and then there's a gnome over here that does something.

02:06:10.000 But if you don't need those things, You throw them out, right?

02:06:15.000 And so it's like usually either people talk about multiple universes or retrocausality, but not both because they're solving the same problem.

02:06:25.000 But it is possible that even with our little monkey minds trying to understand retrocausality, we're not taking into account the possibility that retrocausality might exist in infinite timelines.

02:06:38.000 Yep.

02:06:39.000 I'm certainly.

02:06:40.000 Certainly the universe works in ways that we don't understand.

02:06:44.000 And the deeper we look, the more confused we get.

02:06:46.000 Yeah.

02:06:47.000 And also, you find yourself looking right into mind.

02:06:50.000 I really do think there's something to the more you look into physics, the more you look into mind.

02:06:57.000 I mean, all the.

02:06:58.000 The physicists from, did you ever read that book, How the Hippies Saved Physics?

02:07:02.000 No.

02:07:03.000 Oh, sweet.

02:07:04.000 Yeah.

02:07:05.000 Sweet.

02:07:05.000 Good book about like the 70s and Esselin and physicists.

02:07:08.000 Oh, okay.

02:07:09.000 And realizing like.

02:07:10.000 That's the real hippies.

02:07:11.000 That's where the asthma is flowing. 0.99

02:07:13.000 They're all tripping.

02:07:13.000 Yeah.

02:07:15.000 And they had this experience of like, if we really understood quantum mechanics, we'd just get it that it's mind looking into mind.

02:07:23.000 How do you think that aligns with this whole extraterrestrial?

02:07:29.000 Thing you're pointing at my book, yeah, yeah.

02:07:32.000 So, this cover, my husband did the art.

02:07:34.000 Have a nice disclosure, yeah.

02:07:36.000 He's like a little quirky, like uh, alien face, engaging.

02:07:41.000 It took him five minutes.

02:07:42.000 I love it.

02:07:43.000 Um, yeah, so this book is not about aliens, and some people get disappointed.

02:07:50.000 It has an alien on the cover because people think of disclosure with aliens right now, but it's really about what you know, what we can find out by going into our inner space.

02:08:03.000 Like what we can find out by tapping into our own wisdom and our own experience and not waiting for some authority figure to say, Hey, this is what's true.

02:08:12.000 And now we will reveal the great secret.

02:08:15.000 Because honestly, when that happens, which could be literally tomorrow, it might be today with the release of the files.

02:08:23.000 I don't know what they're going to tell us.

02:08:24.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:08:25.000 I think there's going to be a lot of redacted stuff and flood the zone with shit. 0.98

02:08:30.000 But when that happens, it's not going to matter. 0.91

02:08:33.000 Because when someone tells you something, And they say it's true, it doesn't matter until you experience it.

02:08:41.000 You know, it doesn't matter until it matters to you.

02:08:44.000 Right.

02:08:45.000 And so, that's a good point. 0.99

02:08:46.000 And so, I think that disclosure, if you want to have a nice disclosure, it's really about learning what matters to you and disclosing all your own weird shit to yourself.

02:08:59.000 You know, all the weird thoughts like you're talking about that guy in your head, all those weird thoughts that we have and the weird experiences we've had in our lifetimes that we sort of bury.

02:09:09.000 We say that, like the thing about the ball lightning, I still forget that, and I've talked about it several times.

02:09:17.000 We sort of say, well, that's not normal.

02:09:18.000 That's not usual.

02:09:19.000 So maybe it didn't happen somehow, but it did, you know?

02:09:23.000 Or people who have experienced seeing UAP or UFOs, or people who are psionic assets, or people like me who have psychic experiences all the time.

02:09:35.000 And how I suppressed it so that I could go into get my PhD, and then it came up as a flower later.

02:09:43.000 I think that the movement has to switch, like we need a Copernican revolution where we're not looking for some authority figure to tell us what's true.

02:09:53.000 I would agree with that, but I also think it really helps if someone who knows more than you, who's honest, can tell you what's true.

02:10:02.000 What I was kind of getting into.

02:10:03.000 Well, I agree with that, but what I was kind of getting into is this idea of retrocausality.

02:10:08.000 If all timelines exist in the future, these things that people keep experiencing.

02:10:12.000 Which, if you just extrapolated from what we understand about evolution from ancient hominids to current human beings, to what do you think we're going to look like? 0.91

02:10:23.000 Well, that's what I think we're going to look like. 0.54

02:10:25.000 Very frail things that don't need muscles.

02:10:25.000 Yeah.

02:10:28.000 Very big heads.

02:10:28.000 Big heads.

02:10:29.000 Kind of like weird arms.

02:10:30.000 And communicate telepathically.

02:10:30.000 Yeah.

02:10:32.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:10:33.000 And they don't have any gender. 0.92

02:10:34.000 It seems like that's the direction that the human species is moving.

02:10:38.000 So, if you thought of this whole idea of time going in this figure eight loop, Then you would consider, oh, is that us?

02:10:47.000 Yeah.

02:10:48.000 Well, so that hypothesis is one of the many hypotheses, but I think that's a really good one, at least for the Greys.

02:10:57.000 Yeah.

02:10:57.000 At least for what people describe as the Greys.

02:11:00.000 I think people have described other kinds of beings or creatures.

02:11:05.000 And there's this guy, Michael Masters, who studies that.

02:11:09.000 Yeah, I've had him on.

02:11:10.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:11:11.000 And so we want, if someone, the thing is, okay, so what if someone says that's the truth?

02:11:18.000 It's still like, it's the same problem I have when I tell people, like, look, all of us can basically get information from the future.

02:11:27.000 And so can photons.

02:11:29.000 Like, it doesn't matter until it matters.

02:11:31.000 It doesn't matter until you make something.

02:11:36.000 It doesn't matter until you make something.

02:11:38.000 Like, you show that something works that uses this principle, then people believe it.

02:11:44.000 It's like general relativity.

02:11:46.000 Lots of people don't know what it is, but we have GPS, you know?

02:11:49.000 So we kind of have to say that's real.

02:11:52.000 But someone saying something and making something with it are two different things.

02:11:57.000 And so I'm very impressed with what people like Anna Brady Estevez, who used to be at the National Science Foundation, is doing.

02:12:05.000 She made this company called, I guess, I don't know much about money companies.

02:12:09.000 It's like a fund, some kind of fund, investment fund called American Deep Tech.

02:12:16.000 And she's like, I'm going to reverse engineer UFOs because that's making something from these principles.

02:12:26.000 Well, there's a lot of people that believe that's already being done.

02:12:28.000 Well, yeah, but she wants to do it in the private sector outside of, you know, the big contracting companies. 0.97

02:12:35.000 How is she attempting to reverse engineer?

02:12:37.000 Well, she's not.

02:12:38.000 She's building a fund that's trying to invest in different companies that are using these kind of principles like alternative propulsion or, you know, informational time travel or these kind of principles, space time metric.

02:12:49.000 And so she's one of many people who recognize that we have to get sort of out of the top five contracting companies who are.

02:12:59.000 Holding all the knowledge about this stuff.

02:13:02.000 We have to build things and just go forward.

02:13:07.000 Hmm.

02:13:08.000 I know.

02:13:10.000 What are you thinking?

02:13:11.000 Well, I mean, if this retro causality idea about aliens in the future does exist, one of the weirder things is the back engineering part.

02:13:21.000 Because part of the back engineering, there's.

02:13:26.000 Do you know who Diana Pasolka is?

02:13:28.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:13:28.000 Yeah, so her work is very interesting.

02:13:30.000 You've had her on the show.

02:13:31.000 Yes.

02:13:31.000 Very interesting.

02:13:32.000 And I love her new book, too.

02:13:34.000 Yeah, her books are great.

02:13:35.000 One of the things that she talked about, though, was that the idea that these things are donations.

02:13:40.000 Yes, yeah.

02:13:41.000 Jacques Valet talks about that.

02:13:42.000 Yes, yeah, yeah.

02:13:43.000 And so does Gary Nolan.

02:13:46.000 So it's this weird thing, the people that have examined the physical characteristics of them, they're very strange.

02:13:52.000 Like when they've gotten these small samples.

02:13:54.000 Little bits, like weird metals that we don't have.

02:13:57.000 Atomically layered, somehow or another printed, and these very strange alloys that would cost billions of dollars to make, and they found this crash.

02:14:07.000 In 1976.

02:14:08.000 Like, it doesn't make any sense.

02:14:09.000 They seem like little, to me, they seem like little acupuncture points, like in the history of humanity, like little, just little acupuncture, like, oh, let's put a needle there.

02:14:18.000 Maybe they could have an iPhone.

02:14:21.000 Maybe they could figure out how to cure cancer.

02:14:24.000 Maybe they could figure out how to do faster than light travel.

02:14:27.000 So it does feel like, yeah, little acupuncture.

02:14:30.000 And it can be done with artifacts, like people find.

02:14:34.000 And I'm reading Diana Puzzleka's book, American Cosmic.

02:14:39.000 She talks about finding these artifacts.

02:14:40.000 Artifacts and how she's not even sure she believes in them.

02:14:42.000 And I totally get it.

02:14:43.000 I think I would feel the same way.

02:14:46.000 But then there's this other side to it that's not artifactual.

02:14:50.000 It's about consciousness, it's about some kind of mystical awareness.

02:14:56.000 You can also do acupuncture that way, right?

02:14:59.000 You could put into someone's mind, like, I'm not sure how I had the idea as a cognitive neuroscientist to do this experiment with photons.

02:15:06.000 I think you could put into someone's mind information that will be helpful to the future.

02:15:14.000 And I think that happens to people all over, inventors all over.

02:15:17.000 That's the muse.

02:15:18.000 Yeah.

02:15:19.000 And the muse could come from the future, right?

02:15:22.000 Yeah.

02:15:22.000 That's Eric Wargo talks about that.

02:15:25.000 I've thought about that with ideas that it's almost like ideas are a life form.

02:15:29.000 And this is the thought that I had.

02:15:31.000 Like, if you think about everything that exists today that human beings have created, all that stuff came from an idea.

02:15:39.000 Like, the idea then manifests itself in physical form, and we want to take credit for it.

02:15:43.000 We want to say, oh, I made that steam engine, and you did.

02:15:47.000 Right. 0.99

02:15:47.000 But how the fuck did you do that? 0.99

02:15:49.000 Like, where did the idea come from? 0.98

02:15:50.000 Because ideas, anybody that's really honest about their ideas will tell you, like, boy, I don't even know if that's my idea.

02:15:56.000 It just came out of the ether.

02:15:58.000 Every great thought that I've ever had, every great joke that I've ever written, all that stuff just came out of space, came out of some weird place.

02:16:07.000 And I've always thought of that.

02:16:08.000 Like, what if ideas are a different type of life form?

02:16:12.000 And it's a life form that manifests itself through us in physical space.

02:16:18.000 And that's Marshall McLuhan's.

02:16:20.000 Thought in a book from the 1960s, he said, Human beings are the sex organs of the machine world.

02:16:27.000 Isn't that amazing? 0.99

02:16:28.000 That's amazing.

02:16:29.000 Isn't that an amazing quote?

02:16:31.000 What came into my head, so I love that idea.

02:16:33.000 I always thought of science as like a living being, like it has its desire, and if you don't do the experiment, someone else is going to get it.

02:16:40.000 Right, and it possesses you.

02:16:41.000 And songwriters talk about that too.

02:16:43.000 If you don't write the song, someone else is going to write the song.

02:16:46.000 Yes.

02:16:46.000 And the image I had in my head, because I think in images, was do you remember those Plato.

02:16:52.000 Heads that would have holes in them, and you would turn the crank and the Play Doh would come out.

02:16:56.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:16:57.000 Shave a haircut.

02:16:57.000 Give them a haircut.

02:16:58.000 That's right.

02:16:59.000 That's what came into my head.

02:16:59.000 Yeah.

02:17:00.000 Like it's just coming out of whatever hole is blocked and it just has its own momentum.

02:17:05.000 Yeah.

02:17:05.000 And then, like, what if one of those little holes said, Oh, look what I did?

02:17:08.000 I grew this hair.

02:17:09.000 And it's like, Well, okay.

02:17:11.000 Yeah, right.

02:17:12.000 I know.

02:17:13.000 That's what it's like.

02:17:14.000 I mean, most people that I've talked to that are singers, songwriters, authors in particular, they'll tell you that these ideas just sort of come out of nowhere and you just got to be there to receive them.

02:17:26.000 Yeah.

02:17:26.000 Pressfield wrote a great book about it called The War of Art.

02:17:29.000 Steven Pressfield?

02:17:30.000 No, I don't know.

02:17:31.000 He wrote The Legend of Bagger Vance and he's a screenwriter and just a brilliant guy.

02:17:35.000 But his book, The War of Art, is really like a masterpiece because I have a stack of them and I give them to comedians.

02:17:42.000 I just read this because it talks about the muse and it talks about treating it as if it's like a real deity that you are summoning.

02:17:50.000 And you do the work, you show up every day, you have this intention to do this.

02:17:55.000 And if you do that, it will be real.

02:17:59.000 And it is like these are things that come from somewhere else into your head.

02:18:05.000 Especially in comedy, because you have to be in the moment.

02:18:08.000 You're not thinking.

02:18:08.000 I mean, even if you write your whole show ahead of time, right?

02:18:12.000 Mike Berbiglia talks about this on Working It Out, right?

02:18:14.000 Even if you write your whole show ahead of time, if you're not in the moment, the timing is going to be off.

02:18:18.000 Not only that, it's not just the timing's off, the audience knows.

02:18:22.000 You could say things exactly correctly with the right timing, but they're animals.

02:18:22.000 Yeah, they can hear you.

02:18:28.000 They smell it.

02:18:29.000 Like if you're thinking about your laundry or something else, like they know.

02:18:29.000 Yeah.

02:18:32.000 Right.

02:18:33.000 Like they know if you're really thinking about a thing, it's hypnosis.

02:18:36.000 Yeah, or it's like telepathy.

02:18:38.000 They could.

02:18:39.000 I, um, when I was this morning, I'm like, oh, God, I just have to take a nap because I'm thinking too much about what I'm going to say on Joe Rogan's show, you know?

02:18:47.000 And that's just the worst when you're thinking about what you're going to say.

02:18:50.000 Yeah.

02:18:51.000 Because then if you say it, as everyone could just tell, you know, it's like you're reading a line.

02:18:55.000 Yeah.

02:18:56.000 You're thinking about a result instead of thinking about the process.

02:18:58.000 Yeah.

02:18:59.000 Or you're just not in the process.

02:19:00.000 Right, right, right.

02:19:01.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:19:03.000 Which is so funny because we're sitting here talking about retro causality and these figure eight things and the multiple worlds.

02:19:07.000 And then we're talking about how important it is to be in the now, which kind of like doesn't exist physically, but sure exists psychologically.

02:19:13.000 Like, it's all that exists.

02:19:15.000 And we were also talking before about ego, and I think that's a part of the problem with the way people can create or not create, is that you've got to learn how to get out of your own way.

02:19:23.000 And everybody talks about that.

02:19:25.000 Writers always talk about that.

02:19:26.000 Like, you have to just get out of your own way.

02:19:28.000 And that's really what's going on with this wrestling match with the mind.

02:19:33.000 Yes.

02:19:34.000 It's like we're trying to just be clear.

02:19:38.000 And I think that's where probably some of this nonverbal, these non speaking people, that's where they have this advantage. 0.82

02:19:45.000 They're not, they don't have the same.

02:19:45.000 Yes.

02:19:48.000 Perception of themselves the way we do, I bet.

02:19:52.000 Not at all.

02:19:53.000 So they're free in that regard.

02:19:55.000 They don't have that monkey on their back. 0.99

02:19:57.000 Well, but then they have another monkey on their back, which is they live in this culture in which people think they're idiots because we read each other's bodies and we say there's something wrong with the way you're moving your body. 1.00

02:20:06.000 You can't talk. 1.00

02:20:07.000 You're making these sounds.

02:20:09.000 And so you're free in your mind, but you're not free in your body.

02:20:12.000 And we're giving off negativity.

02:20:13.000 Oh, what's wrong with this guy?

02:20:14.000 And then they hear it.

02:20:15.000 And they hear it.

02:20:16.000 And so when we were filming for Kai's documentary, we.

02:20:16.000 Right, right, right.

02:20:21.000 All got together with the sound people and the camera people before our first non speaker came in for their trial.

02:20:28.000 And we said, when, you know, they're telepathic.

02:20:30.000 So we're going to do a little prayer right now that we can all be in a proper positive state when they come in.

02:20:36.000 And our first student came in and said, it was really great walking through the hall and feeling that good.

02:20:42.000 And, you know, not like we told them we did that, but it was just validation that that was there.

02:20:49.000 And then getting out of your own way, like, God, I think that's less of a problem for these students.

02:20:53.000 Is that a part of the book?

02:20:54.000 Well, the reason I'm looking, I guess, at the book is that the first two chapters popped out of me.

02:21:00.000 I didn't know I was writing a book until I was on the second chapter.

02:21:03.000 What did you think you were writing?

02:21:04.000 I'm like, I'm writing words on a page.

02:21:06.000 It was this weird story about a guy who hears the walls start talking and he's like, What's going on?

02:21:12.000 And it's in the second person.

02:21:14.000 Like, I'm saying, You, this is happening to you.

02:21:16.000 And like, Why am I?

02:21:17.000 I've never written like that before.

02:21:18.000 And the second chapter, I'm like, I think I'm writing a book and I don't know what this is about. 0.98

02:21:23.000 And By the third chapter, I'm finally like, what the fuck? 0.98

02:21:26.000 I mean, what is going on? 0.98

02:21:28.000 And so it was a discovery process.

02:21:30.000 So the whole first half of the book is this discovery process of like, what am I trying to communicate?

02:21:36.000 And I had to get everything out of the way in terms of all like the scholarly stuff, like, well, I better not say that.

02:21:42.000 Didn't get to, nope.

02:21:42.000 Nope.

02:21:43.000 Just had to say the things that were coming up.

02:21:45.000 Had to do it all just exactly as it was, like I was writing a song, you know?

02:21:50.000 And then what it kind of did was work on me.

02:21:52.000 Like, it had its own process that I didn't think it was going to have.

02:21:57.000 Like, I thought it would work on other people.

02:21:59.000 I don't know what I thought.

02:22:00.000 I just had to write the words.

02:22:01.000 And then I just, I guess in the back of my mind, I'm like, it's going to make people feel their own inner space in a way that's going to be unique to them.

02:22:09.000 And then it turns out I ended up feeling my own inner space in a way that was unique to me.

02:22:15.000 And then I had to write about that.

02:22:16.000 So I ended up talking about this, this gifted and talented program I was in and all the receipts I had from that and what the heck was going on with that.

02:22:27.000 It's funny to me how sometimes I'll swear and sometimes I'll say, heck.

02:22:30.000 But I don't know why.

02:22:31.000 I was like, why? 1.00

02:22:32.000 Like sometimes I'll say, what the fuck? 0.99

02:22:33.000 And sometimes I'll be like, gosh darn it. 1.00

02:22:36.000 Yeah.

02:22:37.000 I don't know what the difference is.

02:22:39.000 Oh, I think about that all the time.

02:22:40.000 Yeah.

02:22:41.000 But anyway, it's a weird, weird book.

02:22:45.000 But what it did was open up for a lot of people who were in these weird, gifted, and talented programs, opened up a lot of memories.

02:22:55.000 And I ended up starting a support group for people who had these experiences and kind of don't know what to do with them and still feel the surveillance and the sort of feeling of being studied throughout your whole life.

02:23:09.000 And not knowing if your gifts are your own or if they were taught to you in some kind of way that you've forgotten.

02:23:16.000 So, anyway, I don't know why I brought that up.

02:23:19.000 I guess about the getting out of your own way thing, I had to write all that down.

02:23:22.000 It's the best book I've ever written.

02:23:23.000 I've written other books, they're good, but this one is everything I wanted to say, nothing I didn't want to say.

02:23:29.000 And I got it all out there.

02:23:32.000 And I have a security clearance that I was afraid that it would get taken away from me if I said all these things.

02:23:39.000 Because you talked about remote viewing.

02:23:41.000 No, because I talked about the intelligence community potentially being involved in gifted programs.

02:23:49.000 Yeah.

02:23:49.000 Well, of course they are.

02:23:49.000 Yeah.

02:23:50.000 I would imagine they are.

02:23:52.000 I imagine they were trying to get talent in any way they can, especially if they actually invested time and energy, and we know they have in remote viewing and things along those lines.

02:24:00.000 But the problem is they were doing these.

02:24:00.000 Yeah.

02:24:02.000 I mean, of course, I'm impressed with and know many good people in the intelligence community.

02:24:09.000 And.

02:24:11.000 At the time that they were doing these programs and giving students these weird drinks and doing some kind of mechanism to remove memory of certain things, they were not asking for parental consent.

02:24:23.000 So, yes, looking for talent, understood.

02:24:26.000 Yes, trying to look for psychic, I mean, the intelligence community has always been interested in psychic capacities.

02:24:33.000 Not asking for parental consent, bad.

02:24:36.000 And so they were giving you guys drinks?

02:24:39.000 Do you know what was in it?

02:24:41.000 No.

02:24:42.000 I remember a pink drink that was chalky.

02:24:43.000 It's the same kind of drink everyone talks about.

02:24:45.000 And then what was the effect of that pink drink?

02:24:48.000 I don't know.

02:24:49.000 So, here's the.

02:24:50.000 There's two memory lapses that are very consistent.

02:24:54.000 One was in seventh grade when I was explicitly told I was in a gifted program rather than my earlier years when I just had these pullouts and things.

02:25:02.000 So, in seventh grade, I'm in what's called the SOAR program.

02:25:05.000 This was in like 80, 81.

02:25:06.000 This is before GATE, Gifted and Talented Education.

02:25:10.000 I think it's just a predecessor to GATE.

02:25:12.000 And I was pulled out.

02:25:17.000 Every week, I think about every week, to go see a counselor.

02:25:19.000 But the counselor was really two people, and a man and a woman.

02:25:26.000 Maybe it was sometimes just her, but I think it was both of them.

02:25:30.000 And they would see me in the small rooms.

02:25:33.000 But all I remember is walking.

02:25:34.000 I remember walking down the hallway to the room, dreading that, opening the door.

02:25:40.000 I know which door it was.

02:25:42.000 I can picture it.

02:25:43.000 Shutting the door.

02:25:44.000 There's stuff over the window.

02:25:46.000 And then I black out, like, Every time.

02:25:50.000 And I don't mean like I'm 57 years old and I don't remember what happened in the seventh grade.

02:25:54.000 grade.

02:25:55.000 What I mean is when I would then leave, I remember going back to class and not remembering what happened in the room.

02:26:02.000 Wow.

02:26:04.000 So there's some kind of, and this is not, I mean, this is not different from what many other people will report who are in that program.

02:26:12.000 So some amnesia, either the drink was the amnesia or the drink is something else and they did hypnosis to make us forget or whatever.

02:26:21.000 The other time was when I was an adult, I was Adult ish.

02:26:27.000 I was 20 ish.

02:26:29.000 And I took some time off of college to go hang out in Palo Alto because I had a boyfriend out there.

02:26:37.000 I previously had a boyfriend out there and I was kind of into the Stanford world.

02:26:41.000 I wasn't at Stanford, but I was just into hanging out there and I needed a job.

02:26:48.000 And so I, it was the time when word processing was like you could get paid to be a word processor.

02:26:57.000 And I understood computers and I was like, I'll be a word processor.

02:27:00.000 So, I either got, I either saw an ad in the newspaper at Lockheed Martin or my dad told me, I know someone you should talk to at Lockheed Martin for a job.

02:27:09.000 I end up at Lockheed Martin for an interview in the morning.

02:27:13.000 They hire me on the spot.

02:27:15.000 Then I remember sitting and talking to the guy during the interview.

02:27:21.000 I could see the parking lot behind him, I see the desk.

02:27:23.000 Behind me, I'm vaguely sensing in memory some kind of weird equipment, but again, no memory of that.

02:27:31.000 Then I remember the end of the day.

02:27:33.000 When I'm typing on a computer, my hands are shaking and I'm crying.

02:27:40.000 And I don't remember what happened between the morning and the night in that moment.

02:27:44.000 I don't remember.

02:27:46.000 And I feel like I'm typing up a resignation letter.

02:27:51.000 But in my memory, it could have just been the thing I was typing up, like word processing.

02:27:56.000 But I hand it to the boss and I go, I can't work here.

02:28:00.000 And he said, Oh, I thought you would have a great future at Lockheed Martin.

02:28:03.000 I'm like, Why would you say that to a 20 year old who you know is going back to college in like three months?

02:28:08.000 Um, what a weird thing to say for a word processor who you just hired on that day, and then I left.

02:28:18.000 So, um, I don't know what to say about those instances.

02:28:22.000 My memory is usually pretty photographic, and my auditory memory is excellent.

02:28:26.000 Um, so do you think that the people at Lockheed Martin somehow or another had a record of you being a part of this other program?

02:28:34.000 I think that's one of the reasons why they hired you.

02:28:38.000 I figure, or my dad knew that, and maybe.

02:28:42.000 The memory of him telling me was a real memory.

02:28:46.000 I mean, so he was working for the Department of Energy when I was a kid.

02:28:49.000 And when I recently had a support group meeting like two days ago with the folks who were in these programs, and someone asked the question who here had parents who worked for either the public school system or federal government?

02:29:02.000 And everyone raised their hand, and then I said, who here didn't?

02:29:05.000 Like, let's just make sure, and no one didn't.

02:29:07.000 And so, whoa.

02:29:10.000 Yeah. 0.97

02:29:11.000 So the federal government is mining people's children.

02:29:14.000 So, it was exceptional so that they could use them for whatever they're trying to accomplish.

02:29:19.000 Well, or the contractors.

02:29:22.000 And maybe it's like, excuse me, I get burpy when I talk about stuff that's hard.

02:29:32.000 You know, maybe like I wanted to work for the federal government and I got a job offer and everything and went through the security clearance process and then Doge happened.

02:29:43.000 But I was recruited four days after I filed a FOIA to try to get information about that program.

02:29:49.000 And then a couple days later, more burpee, a couple days later, after I passed the first interview, I got a note from the FOIA people saying, Are you sure you want us to continue this FOIA request?

02:30:05.000 Four days later.

02:30:06.000 I mean, that's fast for FOIA.

02:30:09.000 Like, FOIA is not super rapid.

02:30:11.000 And then I said, No, I guess maybe not, because I was thinking maybe the people who were going to hire me maybe didn't want me to have an outstanding FOIA request.

02:30:19.000 So I said, Maybe not.

02:30:20.000 And then three minutes later, I got a call from the recruiter saying, okay, you've passed to the next level.

02:30:27.000 Oh, wow.

02:30:29.000 Yeah.

02:30:30.000 So I think that there's.

02:30:32.000 Now, so I don't mean to sound.

02:30:34.000 So the thing that I think was wrong, unethical, was not giving students things to ingest and doing experiments that removed their memory without consent of parents and the students.

02:30:47.000 And this is universal amongst all the other students.

02:30:49.000 They all said that they lost memory?

02:30:52.000 Not universal.

02:30:52.000 Nothing's universal.

02:30:53.000 Some actually remember horrible.

02:30:56.000 Abuse that I can't repeat here.

02:30:59.000 But many of them don't have amnesic periods.

02:31:02.000 And was the same with all of them?

02:31:06.000 Was it a similar result that they were trying to achieve?

02:31:09.000 Was it some sort of exceptional powers that these children had or exceptional ability, exceptional cognitive ability?

02:31:17.000 Like, what was it?

02:31:18.000 It looks like they were looking for exceptional cognitive ability and leadership ability, creative ability, and psychic ability.

02:31:27.000 But, you know, so that's so.

02:31:29.000 I mean, I just want to say, like, that's not nefarious to want those things.

02:31:33.000 But it is from children.

02:31:35.000 Right.

02:31:35.000 And so this is the thing that is just like, okay.

02:31:37.000 It's just taking children and making, doing experiments on them. 0.98

02:31:40.000 It's like you're fucking weirding them out. 0.97

02:31:42.000 They're supposed to be playing with their friends and having fun and living a normal life. 0.99

02:31:46.000 You've all of a sudden changed all of that by introducing them to scientific experiments and making them drink fucking Pepto Bismol or whatever they've given you. 0.99

02:31:54.000 Some amnesia. 0.99

02:31:55.000 Whatever pink. 0.99

02:31:56.000 Or some radioactive thing.

02:31:57.000 So I had this dream.

02:31:57.000 I don't know.

02:31:58.000 I had this. 0.99

02:31:59.000 Well, so the reason I. X Men type shit. 0.99

02:32:01.000 Sorry. 0.99

02:32:02.000 Well, right.

02:32:03.000 And so the reason I bring that up is I had this.

02:32:06.000 So I know already that I'm gifted at dreaming telepathically and precognitively, right?

02:32:10.000 And so I know that's true.

02:32:13.000 And then I have this dream.

02:32:17.000 After I moved to Washington, D.C., and I'm starting to think about working for the federal government, I have this dream.

02:32:23.000 I don't have a job yet or even a job offer, but this car is following me in the dream.

02:32:28.000 It's a red convertible.

02:32:30.000 And there's a guy in the convertible, and it has a little FBI badge on it.

02:32:33.000 On the car.

02:32:34.000 And I'm like, why are you following me?

02:32:35.000 So I just speed up and he keeps following me.

02:32:37.000 He says, hey, we like how spunky you are, but call the office.

02:32:42.000 And I go, call the office?

02:32:43.000 I don't have a job.

02:32:45.000 And he goes, call the office.

02:32:47.000 He's very adamant.

02:32:49.000 And so I'm pissed and I crawl up on the hood of the car and I look at him, you know, as he's driving, as one does in one stream.

02:32:57.000 I'm very aggressive.

02:32:58.000 And I said, give me the phone number.

02:33:01.000 So he gives me the phone number.

02:33:03.000 And I immediately wake up, I write it down.

02:33:06.000 It's the only time it's ever happened to me in a dream that a phone number actually corresponds to a phone number of a government agency.

02:33:11.000 So I look it up, it corresponds to a government agency that monitors radiation exposure.

02:33:16.000 And the first document I find online is this document about these tests of radiation exposure in humans that started in the 70s.

02:33:27.000 And they're like, look, we can't do these tests on animals, we have to do them on humans.

02:33:31.000 It didn't say, like, let's give people radiation.

02:33:34.000 Or it didn't say, let's give people things that soak up radiation and help heal them.

02:33:38.000 It didn't say either of those things.

02:33:39.000 It just said, we have to do this on humans. 0.52

02:33:41.000 It was from the Nuclear Defense Agency.

02:33:43.000 And so that made me start asking questions about whether this has to do with trying to understand the effect of radioactivity.

02:33:53.000 And so I looked into a bunch of history and I found out that my mom grew up really poor.

02:34:01.000 Both her parents worked at a uranium mining facility in Denver.

02:34:06.000 And of course, her mother was a secretary, but her father was a miner.

02:34:10.000 And he would come home with uranium dust on his boots.

02:34:15.000 And so there's intergenerational exposure, right?

02:34:20.000 So if you're a parent, if your mother, especially because, you know, the eggs are, she was like seven or so, but if the eggs are in you your whole life as a woman, right?

02:34:29.000 And so if they get mutated, I could see now, oh, I would potentially be studied, and my sister as well.

02:34:37.000 So then I started looking at all these places where these programs developed.

02:34:41.000 The very first SOAR program was in the 70s and started in Aiken, South Carolina.

02:34:49.000 I found a bunch of newspaper articles about it.

02:34:52.000 SOAR at the time stood for, get this, students on active research.

02:34:58.000 Like, let's just call it what it is out loud, publicly.

02:35:02.000 That's crazy.

02:35:03.000 Yeah.

02:35:03.000 So, by the time it got to me up in Illinois, it was called Scholarly Opportunities in the Academic Realm.

02:35:11.000 Active research is too creepy for people.

02:35:12.000 Oh, yeah, my baby.

02:35:13.000 Yeah.

02:35:14.000 But anyway, Aiken, South Carolina is right next to the Savannah River.

02:35:19.000 Nuclear facility that processed plutonium.

02:35:22.000 And so, and then there were a bunch of people who were in the SOAR program in Nevada, which is obviously a nuclear test site.

02:35:29.000 And then I talked to a friend who knows a bunch of special forces guys, but he grew up in a place where they had these weird radioactivity like actual containers, like in their school, like storage bins in their school, which is just weird.

02:35:45.000 And he was in one of these programs, and his friend was in one of these programs.

02:35:48.000 And so I think there might be something related to that.

02:35:51.000 And I don't know how all this stuff.

02:35:53.000 Ties in, but the story I'm again, this is just speculation and based on the receipts that I found and putting things together could all be wrong.

02:36:02.000 And some of my good friends in the intelligence community think it's pretty nuts.

02:36:06.000 But regardless, I would want to understand the effects of radiation on the human mind.

02:36:12.000 Maybe it could make positive things happen, like the at low level, at low levels, right?

02:36:18.000 Right?

02:36:18.000 Maybe I'm as a cognitive neuroscientist, I get it, but you just have to ask for consent, you have to talk about the risks, you have to be clear about it, and you don't.

02:36:28.000 It's clear that there's a file that kind of follows you, right, when you're in these programs. 0.72

02:36:32.000 Well, it's also very clear that if you look at the history of MKUltra, their whole motive operandi was just do everything you want to do.

02:36:39.000 Don't ask for permission.

02:36:41.000 Just do it to people.

02:36:41.000 Well, yeah.

02:36:42.000 Operation Midnight Climax, all those crazy things that they were doing.

02:36:45.000 But they shut it down.

02:36:47.000 They were doing it to a lot of intelligence community officers.

02:36:49.000 They said, okay, don't do that anymore.

02:36:51.000 So let's do it to prisoners.

02:36:52.000 Okay, don't do that anymore.

02:36:54.000 Let's do it to children.

02:36:55.000 Who's going to say anything?

02:36:58.000 I bet foster kids. 0.99

02:36:59.000 Well, yeah, and people like me whose families were breaking up, and also, you know, you're in the public school and your parents are trying to hold their shit together. 0.99

02:37:10.000 So they don't know what's going on. 0.97

02:37:11.000 So, yeah, it's unethical, probably illegal.

02:37:18.000 And I understand that it may be for good reasons.

02:37:20.000 I mean, I think all those things are true.

02:37:23.000 And I think it's interesting that if you talk to kids who went to the gifted programs in the DC area in that same generation, They say none of this stuff happened to them, which is a red flag.

02:37:35.000 It's like you wouldn't want to do it to the executives, they are living in the DC area, right?

02:37:40.000 The executives in the intelligence community and in those contractors.

02:37:45.000 So you wouldn't want to do it to those kids because those are the kids of the executives.

02:37:50.000 Ooh.

02:37:51.000 I know.

02:37:52.000 Ooh.

02:37:53.000 I know.

02:37:54.000 But I mean, isn't that always the case?

02:37:56.000 Like, that's also why those are the ones that don't get drafted?

02:37:59.000 Yeah.

02:38:00.000 No, it's the privilege.

02:38:01.000 Yeah.

02:38:02.000 It's creepy.

02:38:03.000 Yeah, I know.

02:38:04.000 It can go down a really bad rabbit hole.

02:38:05.000 But that's what made me want to, all this kind of difficulty in my early childhood.

02:38:15.000 Brought some clarity, and also, I guess, probably my psychic abilities or my precognitive abilities as an adult has brought some clarity around what really matters and what we can do to make the world a better place and how we can heal all that.

02:38:32.000 Because every single person in that equation was doing the best they could, even if they were making shitty choices.

02:38:39.000 You know, like someone, I can imagine the counselor who knows what's going on, whatever they're doing to me in that room, I can imagine she.

02:38:47.000 You know, felt like, okay, I have to do this for the country.

02:38:51.000 Yeah, we need to do this for the country and we need to do this for humanity, you know?

02:38:56.000 And so there's a lot of forgiveness.

02:38:59.000 Like every once in a while, I'll just send love back in time.

02:39:02.000 Well, that's a very balanced view.

02:39:04.000 Now I understand why what you were talking about, like your youthful experience, that you would want to live it over again so you could forgive people and get over the trauma of it.

02:39:14.000 Now I understand.

02:39:15.000 Yeah.

02:39:16.000 Well, that's why I'm wearing this shirt.

02:39:18.000 Because I started.

02:39:18.000 Applied Love Labs.

02:39:20.000 Yeah, I started that nonprofit in 2019.

02:39:23.000 And what we do is we apply love, weaving it through time in like technology and events and curricula.

02:39:32.000 So I would love to show off one of our coolest things.

02:39:36.000 Can you go to timemachine.love?

02:39:39.000 We built a time machine.

02:39:41.000 Whoa.

02:39:43.000 So we actually use this with some native tribes and with some.

02:39:48.000 There it is.

02:39:49.000 Enter your time machine.

02:39:51.000 Yeah.

02:39:51.000 What is this?

02:39:52.000 So, this is like a journaling, an audio journaling app that essentially prompts you to give messages to yourself.

02:40:02.000 And it says it's going into your time machine.

02:40:04.000 And then later it comes out and you hear yourself.

02:40:07.000 And it has a bizarre impact because what happens is we're not used to hearing, we're used to getting little messages from ourselves, like written, but not your actual self talking to yourself.

02:40:19.000 Yeah.

02:40:20.000 And it changes people.

02:40:21.000 And it seems to be a real favorite of veterans and people who've experienced addiction and abuse, and any kind of situation where they could say, like, I'm going to be here tomorrow, and these are the choices I'd like to make, you know, and I'd like to love myself, and I'd like to feel love for other people.

02:40:39.000 So we've used it at Cook County Jail with a group of people there who really found it powerful, and with a couple of native tribes who would like to change it a little bit and make it fit their culture a little better, but still.

02:40:57.000 It looks like unconditional love itself, like from the math, if you look at the statistics of the results of this experiment we did, it looks like unconditional love itself caused a huge shift along with someone's time perspective, in which they started to include more, like started to love themselves over time more, like it's like a big bubble that extends over time.

02:41:19.000 That makes sense.

02:41:20.000 Yeah.

02:41:21.000 Yeah.

02:41:22.000 Makes sense.

02:41:22.000 It totally makes sense.

02:41:24.000 And it's how I handled it.

02:41:26.000 I sort of wanted to make that up because that's how I handled my childhood abuse.

02:41:32.000 Can I get your book again?

02:41:33.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:41:33.000 I feel like we just scratched the surface here.

02:41:35.000 We've already killed three hours, but I feel like it's been three hours?

02:41:39.000 Close to it, yeah.

02:41:39.000 No.

02:41:41.000 I feel like you and I could do a bunch of these.

02:41:43.000 So let's do another one.

02:41:44.000 I would love that.

02:41:45.000 Because I feel like we didn't even talk about remote viewing.

02:41:45.000 Let's definitely.

02:41:48.000 Oh, let's just do a whole show on that.

02:41:50.000 Because I was a teacher of it, and then I'm an experimenter, and then I have a team.

02:41:54.000 Next time you come in, for sure.

02:41:55.000 We'll do that.

02:41:55.000 Okay.

02:41:56.000 Yeah.

02:41:56.000 Thank you very much.

02:41:57.000 This was a lot of fun.

02:41:58.000 I really enjoyed it.

02:41:59.000 Joe, excellent.

02:42:00.000 And the book is called Have a Nice Disclosure, Julian Mossbridge, PhD, right there.

02:42:04.000 Go get it.

02:42:06.000 Did you do the audiobook?

02:42:07.000 I did.

02:42:08.000 Did you read it?

02:42:08.000 I gave you a free copy.

02:42:09.000 It's me.

02:42:10.000 Yes.

02:42:11.000 I don't like audiobooks where it's not the person. 1.00

02:42:13.000 It's like so stupid. 1.00

02:42:13.000 I agree. 1.00

02:42:14.000 And the publishing companies will tell you, no, you have to have this actor do it.

02:42:19.000 And I'm like, no, because you can hear when you listen if it's that person.

02:42:22.000 Exactly.

02:42:23.000 I agree.

02:42:23.000 Yeah.

02:42:24.000 Yeah.

02:42:24.000 I'm glad you did it.

02:42:25.000 All right.

02:42:25.000 I'll listen to it.

02:42:27.000 Bye, everybody.

02:42:27.000 Thank you.

02:42:27.000 Cool.

02:42:29.000 Bye.

The Joe Rogan Experience - May 08, 2026

Joe Rogan Experience #2496 - Julia Mossbridge

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