The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2502 - David Paulides

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:12.000 David, welcome to the show. 0.99

00:00:14.000 Pull on up to the microphone to get that sucker up like a fist from your face. 0.99

00:00:19.000 I first heard about you from that guy, Art Bell, the GOAT. 0.98

00:00:24.000 The greatest.

00:00:25.000 Yeah, he was.

00:00:27.000 I used to love listening to his show coming home from the comedy store.

00:00:30.000 We'd come home at like 1 o'clock in the morning.

00:00:32.000 Coast to Coast with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye.

00:00:36.000 It was awesome.

00:00:37.000 And that's when I first got turned on to your work.

00:00:41.000 So tell everybody you started off in law enforcement, right?

00:00:45.000 That's your background.

00:00:46.000 Correct.

00:00:47.000 How did you get involved in this mystery of people going missing?

00:00:54.000 So I'd already written a couple of books, and I was at Yosemite National Park doing some research on another topic, and two rangers are following me around.

00:01:07.000 And I went back to my room that was at the park.

00:01:12.000 And about an hour and a half later, one of the Rangers comes to my room and he's in plain clothes and he knocks on my door and he says, hey, Dave, I'm Ranger so-and-so.

00:01:20.000 I'm here off duty.

00:01:21.000 I want to talk to you about some missing people.

00:01:24.000 I said, come on.

00:01:25.000 So we start talking and he says that he knew about me probably the way you knew about me.

00:01:31.000 And he says, I know you're from law enforcement.

00:01:34.000 Somebody needs to look into this.

00:01:36.000 About an hour and a half later, his partner shows up at the door.

00:01:39.000 And they said that they've worked at different parks over the years.

00:01:43.000 And while they were working at those parks, there were missing people.

00:01:46.000 And he said, at the beginning, there was a lot of publicity, a lot of people interested, a lot of activity.

00:01:54.000 And then with time, within about 10, 15 days, all of that would end.

00:02:00.000 And he said, we got concerned and we did a Freedom of Information Act against our own agency to get the reports and we couldn't get the reports.

00:02:09.000 And then we did a Freedom of Information Act request on other cases, and we couldn't get the reports.

00:02:15.000 And we got concerned because after that initial 10, 14 day period of searching is all over, there's nothing else that happens.

00:02:23.000 That's it.

00:02:25.000 And he said, somebody ought to look into this because there's a lot of people missing, and the Park Service doesn't talk about it.

00:02:32.000 Now, what was he assuming?

00:02:33.000 Was he assuming something nefarious was going on, or was he assuming that it was a lack of commitment to finding the bodies?

00:02:41.000 Because you got to assume.

00:02:42.000 Most people, after 14 days lost in the woods, are probably going to die.

00:02:46.000 I think all of the above.

00:02:49.000 He thought that there were too many people going missing, there wasn't enough follow-up being done, and nobody seemed to care.

00:02:49.000 He thought that there were too many people going missing.

00:02:52.000 There wasn't enough follow-up being done.

00:02:57.000 So if you were being pragmatic and you weren't like diving into mysteries and the stuff that I like, the fun stuff, you would say, well, they don't have any resources, you know?

00:03:08.000 There's not enough people to go looking.

00:03:10.000 When you think about the actual square miles that you would have to cover to find a body, And then also the reality of predators and all these different animals that are going to eat bodies.

00:03:20.000 If a body's there, there's not going to be much left.

00:03:23.000 You spent, obviously, you spent time in the woods.

00:03:25.000 Have you ever seen a dead mountain lion?

00:03:28.000 No.

00:03:29.000 I've never seen a dead bear.

00:03:33.000 I've only seen dead bears because I was hunting.

00:03:36.000 I've never seen a dead bear.

00:03:38.000 Well, no, that's not true.

00:03:39.000 No, we did find one.

00:03:41.000 But I think it's very rare, but that one was recently dead.

00:03:46.000 He was killed by another bear.

00:03:47.000 I think.

00:03:48.000 Most of the time, when you find dead animals, it's very recent.

00:03:54.000 And if an animal's dead and it's left alone in the woods within a certain amount of time, something's going to eat it.

00:04:00.000 Everything's going to eat it, including the bones.

00:04:02.000 There's almost nothing left by the time they get done with it.

00:04:04.000 100%.

00:04:05.000 Yeah.

00:04:06.000 But one thing I learned from being around Rangers in all these years now is that there's few things that belong to us that we go into the woods with that are always going to be there.

00:04:17.000 Namely our shoes.

00:04:18.000 Belt buckles.

00:04:19.000 Belt buckles.

00:04:21.000 Leather anything.

00:04:24.000 The rubber waistband of your underwear.

00:04:28.000 These kind of things stay forever.

00:04:31.000 A rifle, a pistol, a bow.

00:04:34.000 And those things you're going to find.

00:04:37.000 But getting back to the point of these guys, there were too many people going missing in a short period of time that no one seemed to care about.

00:04:46.000 That was really their main focus.

00:04:49.000 And somebody ought to look into it.

00:04:51.000 Somebody ought to start collecting data.

00:04:53.000 Nobody did.

00:04:56.000 And maybe somebody from the outside, they're the inside, maybe somebody from the outside would have more luck putting this all together rather than them.

00:05:04.000 That was kind of the gist of it.

00:05:06.000 Well, there's some cases.

00:05:08.000 That are just flat out weird.

00:05:10.000 Like some cases, like people go missing, they die, animals eat them.

00:05:15.000 That makes sense to me.

00:05:15.000 That's a wrap.

00:05:17.000 But there's a few cases.

00:05:18.000 And one of them you covered was a guy, I believe he was from Canada, that went skiing in New York and he went missing.

00:05:29.000 And then he showed up 2,500 miles later in California with his ski clothes on and he didn't know what happened.

00:05:39.000 Yeah, that was, he was a fireman from, I think, Toronto that went with a bunch of friends to New York on like a weekend ski trip.

00:05:49.000 And the guys were all getting together at the end of the day to leave and they couldn't find him.

00:05:55.000 He says he wakes up on a truck traveling from like Reno to Sacramento.

00:06:03.000 Woke up in the back of a truck?

00:06:04.000 No, sitting in the front seat.

00:06:07.000 And he said that he was.

00:06:08.000 As he wakes up, he's talking.

00:06:10.000 It's not like he was asleep and woke up.

00:06:13.000 It's like his mind suddenly flashed open.

00:06:15.000 Hey, you're alive now.

00:06:16.000 You can keep talking.

00:06:17.000 And he goes, but I was talking to the driver and we're traveling.

00:06:22.000 The driver drops him off at Sacramento Airport.

00:06:25.000 He doesn't remember anything, but he remembers his home phone number.

00:06:28.000 He calls his wife in Toronto and she goes, hey, everyone's searching for you, thinking you're still at the ski resort.

00:06:36.000 He has all the ski clothes on.

00:06:39.000 How many days later?

00:06:40.000 I don't remember.

00:06:42.000 Even he doesn't make sense of it.

00:06:45.000 He doesn't know how he got in the truck.

00:06:47.000 The truck driver left.

00:06:49.000 Nobody knows who the truck driver was.

00:06:53.000 That was kind of the whole story.

00:06:55.000 It wasn't a lot.

00:06:56.000 So he didn't ask the truck driver, hey, where'd you pick me up?

00:06:59.000 I think he was embarrassed.

00:07:02.000 Just embarrassed that he was in the truck and doesn't remember how he got in there?

00:07:05.000 Yeah.

00:07:06.000 Okay, so he didn't say anything.

00:07:08.000 And did he have any memories from skiing to, like, did he ever do, like, regressive hypnosis or anything?

00:07:16.000 If he did, it never went public.

00:07:19.000 Hmm.

00:07:20.000 Is that the weirdest one?

00:07:22.000 Oh, no.

00:07:23.000 What's the weirdest one you heard of?

00:07:23.000 There's weird ones.

00:07:27.000 The strangest disappearance story.

00:07:30.000 There's a lot of people that disappear that don't have a memory.

00:07:36.000 And if you look back and you study missing people, those people historically have been abducted.

00:07:43.000 And there's something about that abduction experience where they can take away part of your mind.

00:07:47.000 You think alien abduction.

00:07:48.000 That's what you're saying.

00:07:50.000 Something.

00:07:51.000 Some type of foreign Just want to be clear, we're not talking about like a bad person abducting a bad person.

00:07:57.000 No, we're talking about some kind of entity.

00:08:00.000 Okay.

00:08:02.000 And they take away part of that mind where they were probably doing something to you that they don't want you to know.

00:08:09.000 Right.

00:08:10.000 And there's a lot of those.

00:08:13.000 There's a whole segment of people that I have chronicled that were truck drivers who have amnesia, who were found in conditions that were very strange.

00:08:25.000 There was a truck driver in the Midwest where.

00:08:29.000 Salt of the earth kind of guy drove, drove independently, wife and a couple kids.

00:08:35.000 He picks up a load.

00:08:37.000 I want to. 0.99

00:08:37.000 I want to say it was pigs and he's. 0.99

00:08:40.000 His truck is found like outside of Indiana on a little two-lane highway, stopped on the side of the road. 0.95

00:08:47.000 He's not anywhere to be found.

00:08:49.000 But his coat is found in a ditch on the other side of the other lane.

00:08:54.000 So the sheriff comes out, they do a huge search flyovers canines, goes on for like four or five days, nothing.

00:09:01.000 A week and a half later, his body is found in that field, in the spot where they had searched all that time.

00:09:12.000 Impossible to miss.

00:09:14.000 Coroner says he's been dead for two weeks.

00:09:18.000 The chef can't make sense of that because he searched that with dogs and people.

00:09:23.000 That guy should have been there.

00:09:25.000 But, Joe, I have 1,500 of those cases where canines were brought in, multiple canine teams, multiple searches, and people were not found.

00:09:37.000 And the point I try to make about this is that it's not that the searchers are inept, because I don't believe that.

00:09:44.000 And I don't believe that the canines fail multiple, multiple times, because I don't believe that can happen.

00:09:51.000 I don't believe they were there when they were searching, they were left there later on.

00:09:57.000 And so you've been into this for a long time, right?

00:10:02.000 What was the first case that you looked into that got you thinking that something weird's going on?

00:10:08.000 Probably would have been at Yosemite, and there was a girl named Stacy Aris.

00:10:14.000 And she, just weirdly, she grew up like five miles from me.

00:10:20.000 I grew up in a little city, Cupertino, California.

00:10:23.000 She grew up in Saratoga, the next town over.

00:10:26.000 She went with her dad on a trip by horse, sponsored by a contractor in the park at Yosemite, and they were going to ride into this place called the High Sierra Camp.

00:10:38.000 Her and her dad, and five other people.

00:10:40.000 And they get Escorted in by a cowboy contractor, and they come to these cabins.

00:10:48.000 Her dad's an older guy.

00:10:50.000 They get to the cabin, and she says, Hey, dad, I want to go over here to the point.

00:10:55.000 I want to take some pictures.

00:10:56.000 She brings her camera, and one of the guys, a 72 year old guy, is sitting at that point.

00:11:02.000 She goes, I'm going to go right there and sit with him and take some pictures.

00:11:05.000 He goes, Sure.

00:11:07.000 Dad watches her walk out.

00:11:08.000 They sit down.

00:11:10.000 Old, old guy, barely could ride the horse.

00:11:12.000 She's taking pictures.

00:11:14.000 She gets up, and down at the bottom of the hill, there's a small lake.

00:11:19.000 And surrounding the lake, there's trees.

00:11:22.000 She walks down into the trees, presumably to take pictures of the lake, but she doesn't come back.

00:11:29.000 Big search.

00:11:30.000 I'm talking about one of the biggest searches in Yosemite history.

00:11:34.000 And they find the lens cap to a camera inside that path in the tree line.

00:11:40.000 They never find her.

00:11:43.000 And That happened 46 years ago.

00:11:49.000 I filed the Freedom of Information Act for that report and all the investigation into it, and I get denied.

00:11:55.000 I appealed.

00:11:56.000 I got denied.

00:11:58.000 Finally, a special agent from the Park Service.

00:12:02.000 Just so people know the Park Service has uniformed police officers, National Park Service police, that patrol their parks.

00:12:11.000 And they go to the National Law Enforcement Academy.

00:12:15.000 Up above them, they have special agents, detectives.

00:12:20.000 And they are doing all the follow up work that the police officers in the field do.

00:12:25.000 This case goes to a special agent.

00:12:29.000 There's been nothing done on this case in 40 years.

00:12:32.000 The special agent calls me.

00:12:33.000 Why do you want the case?

00:12:36.000 I said, well, that's an irrelevant question.

00:12:38.000 According to FOIA, you can't ask that.

00:12:41.000 And he goes, well, I want to know.

00:12:42.000 I said, well, it's been 47 years.

00:12:44.000 I doubt anyone's looked at it.

00:12:45.000 Have you looked at it?

00:12:46.000 No, nobody's looked at it.

00:12:48.000 I said, well, I'd like a copy of it just to understand what happened.

00:12:53.000 He goes, you're never going to get the case.

00:12:54.000 This guy's name was special agent U. Why U?

00:12:58.000 I said, why?

00:12:59.000 And he says, none of your business.

00:13:01.000 You're never going to get it.

00:13:03.000 I said, first of all, why talk to me like that?

00:13:04.000 I'm prior law enforcement.

00:13:06.000 I'm not being rude.

00:13:07.000 I just want to know.

00:13:08.000 He goes, forget it.

00:13:09.000 Drop it.

00:13:10.000 You're never going to see it.

00:13:12.000 I said, no, I want that case.

00:13:14.000 And he goes, you've never seen any other missing person case, and you're not going to see this one.

00:13:20.000 I said, whoa.

00:13:21.000 I have over 30 missing person cases from your agency from around the United States that I've FOIA'd before and I've received. 0.99

00:13:29.000 You're a liar. 0.99

00:13:31.000 You said that to me. 0.99

00:13:34.000 I said, No, I'm not a liar.

00:13:35.000 I don't lie.

00:13:36.000 And this is the truth.

00:13:37.000 And he goes, Well, you're not getting this one.

00:13:41.000 Anything else you want to know?

00:13:43.000 I said, No, I think you've done it.

00:13:46.000 And that was it.

00:13:48.000 In that amount of time, I've really found out nothing more about the Stacey Ayres case.

00:13:53.000 14 year old girl disappeared, never found.

00:13:57.000 Nobody's ever done anything on the case in 40 years.

00:14:00.000 I still haven't seen it.

00:14:02.000 Now, I talked to Tim Burchett, who you had in here the other day.

00:14:06.000 And I explained to him, I want a meeting with Bergam.

00:14:10.000 And I want to lay out what I have and explain the obstructions.

00:14:13.000 Who's Bergam?

00:14:14.000 The head of the Department of the Interior.

00:14:15.000 Okay.

00:14:16.000 Doug Bergam.

00:14:16.000 Okay.

00:14:18.000 And explain to him the obstructions that are happening in his agency.

00:14:21.000 Those are our reports.

00:14:22.000 If nobody's looked at it in 40 plus years, what does it matter if I have it?

00:14:25.000 The people that were working back then aren't working anymore.

00:14:25.000 Right.

00:14:28.000 It's not like anyone's going to get in trouble.

00:14:30.000 No.

00:14:30.000 Half of them are dead.

00:14:31.000 Right.

00:14:33.000 And Tim said, okay.

00:14:36.000 Uh, how my people get a hold of you?

00:14:37.000 They got a hold of me.

00:14:38.000 They said that they called DOI.

00:14:40.000 They said that DOI people said, Yeah, we'll get a hold of you.

00:14:43.000 I called them three times, they won't call me back.

00:14:48.000 So, what do you think is going on?

00:14:52.000 So, when you look at the totality of, and let's just talk about Yosemite.

00:14:57.000 As I dug into it, there's probably over 50 people missing in Yosemite as we talk right now.

00:15:05.000 When I asked for it, A list from Yosemite from the Department of the Interior 12 years ago.

00:15:10.000 They said they don't have a list.

00:15:12.000 I asked for a list of missing people from the entire system in the Department of Interior.

00:15:17.000 They said we don't have a list.

00:15:19.000 And I said, well, okay, I've written so many books, I'm a printed author.

00:15:25.000 I'm going to ask you to put that list together for me.

00:15:28.000 According to the rules, I fit that criteria to ask.

00:15:31.000 But they said they don't have a list.

00:15:33.000 But I asked them to put one together.

00:15:33.000 Right.

00:15:35.000 Okay.

00:15:37.000 And they said, we'll get back to you.

00:15:38.000 They said, no, you don't qualify.

00:15:41.000 But if you want us to put together a list from the entire system, it's going to cost you $1.4 million.

00:15:48.000 If you want a list from Yosemite, that's going to cost you $34,000.

00:15:55.000 So that got me really upset.

00:15:57.000 Over the next two years, I put the list together.

00:15:59.000 Joe, the third year, you know what Yosemite did?

00:16:02.000 They released a list of missing people from Yosemite.

00:16:05.000 So I know I got all the people from Yosemite.

00:16:07.000 I wrote about them in my books.

00:16:09.000 They still haven't released a list from the entire system.

00:16:13.000 So do you think they released it because you were pressuring them?

00:16:16.000 No, you could look at it a bunch of different ways.

00:16:19.000 I'm trying to look at it from the skeptic's perspective.

00:16:22.000 You'd say, well, This is clear.

00:16:24.000 A bunch of people don't want to do their job. 0.67

00:16:26.000 They're lazy.

00:16:27.000 They don't like this guy coming along and asking for information.

00:16:30.000 But you think there's something weird going on.

00:16:34.000 So, FOIA I found on their website that was sent to him in 2011.

00:16:39.000 It says that the appeal was properly invoked because of exemptions 7A.

00:16:48.000 And here's, I'll let you read that, what that is.

00:16:51.000 7A permits the withholding of records of information complied with.

00:16:55.000 Or compiled rather for law enforcement purposes, but only to the extent that the production of such law enforcement records or information could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings.

00:17:07.000 So they could withhold it because you could interfere with enforcement proceedings?

00:17:14.000 40 years later.

00:17:15.000 That's.

00:17:16.000 30 years later, I guess. 0.99

00:17:17.000 That's fucking weird. 0.84

00:17:18.000 The exemption is intended to prevent premature disclosure of the investigatory materials that might be used in law enforcement action. 0.98

00:17:27.000 40 years later?

00:17:28.000 It says the incident is still ongoing.

00:17:29.000 In criminal investigations, the incident is still ongoing.

00:17:32.000 40 years later?

00:17:34.000 What?

00:17:36.000 Okay.

00:17:37.000 Tin foil hat firmly placed on your head.

00:17:40.000 What do you think is going on?

00:17:41.000 So, first of all, missing people investigations are not criminal investigations.

00:17:46.000 Right.

00:17:47.000 There's nothing criminal about disappearing.

00:17:49.000 If it's a criminal investigation and there's criminal aspects to it, it shouldn't be a missing person case.

00:17:55.000 It ought to be suspicious circumstances investigated by a criminal investigator.

00:18:00.000 Right.

00:18:00.000 It has a classification as a missing person.

00:18:03.000 And what they're not saying there is what about the other 40 cases I've already gotten from them that are since that that are missing person cases?

00:18:12.000 Right.

00:18:14.000 So that's a little weird, but I could also see incompetent people that don't want to work.

00:18:20.000 They don't want to do their job. 1.00

00:18:21.000 They're like, fuck this guy. 1.00

00:18:22.000 I don't want to do his work. 1.00

00:18:23.000 I don't want to go.

00:18:24.000 Why is he asking me for this information?

00:18:27.000 He's just a kooky author.

00:18:29.000 I could see that.

00:18:31.000 But like, what do you think might be going on with these people?

00:18:35.000 So when I was in law enforcement, I worked on the SWAT team and we had canines assigned to our team.

00:18:41.000 Joe, I can't ever remember us looking for someone with a dog and the dog didn't find the person.

00:18:47.000 Right.

00:18:48.000 I have 1,200 to 1,500 cases where they bring a canine to find a missing person and the dog can't track, won't track, or turns around, comes down and sits down and is not interested in tracking.

00:19:02.000 That's totally outside the behavior of a dog.

00:19:04.000 This episode is brought to you by Zip Recruiter.

00:19:07.000 We've all been there putting something off because we simply don't want to do it.

00:19:12.000 And then it never gets done.

00:19:13.000 Or you do it poorly.

00:19:15.000 Your enthusiasm or lack thereof shows in your work.

00:19:19.000 Hiring managers know this.

00:19:20.000 It's a big factor they consider.

00:19:22.000 And if you're like them, Zip Recruiter is your greatest ally because you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com slash Rogan.

00:19:31.000 And Zip Recruiter just added a new feature that identifies people who are interested in your role from those who are just meh.

00:19:38.000 About it.

00:19:39.000 That's in addition to ZipRecruiter's already powerful matching technology.

00:19:43.000 It's an easy way to get matched with top talent perfect for your role quickly while also making sure that you're talking to people truly passionate about the work they'll be doing first.

00:19:54.000 Use ZipRecruiter and find enthusiastic talent fast.

00:19:58.000 Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day.

00:20:03.000 And now you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com slash Rogan.

00:20:09.000 That's ziprecruiter.com slash Rogan.

00:20:12.000 Meet your match with ZipRecruiter. 0.51

00:20:14.000 Isn't that what happened to that woman recently that went missing? 1.00

00:20:18.000 That was a part of this whole group of scientists that were involved in propulsion research. 0.68

00:20:23.000 Riza?

00:20:24.000 Yeah. 0.63

00:20:26.000 Same sort of situation, right?

00:20:27.000 She was with her friend.

00:20:29.000 They were hiking.

00:20:30.000 They had just talked.

00:20:31.000 The friend was ahead of her.

00:20:33.000 And the friend turned around to ask her a question.

00:20:35.000 She was gone.

00:20:36.000 They do an investigation, they bring in dogs, can't find anything.

00:20:41.000 The lady's just gone. 0.83

00:20:43.000 100%. 0.96

00:20:45.000 You're 100% right.

00:20:47.000 It doesn't make any sense and it fit that 411 criteria that I laid down, which is why I did a video about it.

00:20:54.000 Her disappearance doesn't make sense.

00:21:01.000 So, do you have suspicions?

00:21:04.000 Like, do you think something supernatural is going on?

00:21:08.000 Do you think something extraterrestrial or interdimensional?

00:21:12.000 Like, what do you think is involved in these people going missing?

00:21:19.000 First of all, I don't know.

00:21:20.000 Right.

00:21:21.000 In my books, I've laid out facts and I let the viewer decide.

00:21:25.000 But one thing I did find, because I've written about a lot of hunters that have disappeared.

00:21:31.000 And let's say you and I go out and we're going to go pig hunting at your friend's farm down the way.

00:21:37.000 And you say, hey, Dave, you go that way and I'll go that way and I'll meet you in an hour.

00:21:42.000 Okay.

00:21:44.000 So in my world, I call that point of separation.

00:21:47.000 Every time on a missing hunter case, It's at that point of separation that something happens.

00:21:53.000 It never happens when they're together.

00:21:55.000 It always happens when people are alone.

00:21:57.000 That's point number one.

00:21:59.000 Number two is the canine issue.

00:22:01.000 Canines' failure to pick up a scent, they bring in professional trackers and they can't find tracks.

00:22:07.000 That's not normal.

00:22:09.000 A lot of times, say in Alaska, they have some great native trackers up there and they can't find people.

00:22:19.000 And every other time they can.

00:22:21.000 So it's like if you're going from A to B, you're going to leave a scent and you're going to leave a track.

00:22:26.000 Right.

00:22:27.000 Well, they can't find that.

00:22:28.000 And that's not normal.

00:22:31.000 So, in my movie, I made a movie called Missing 411 The Hunted.

00:22:35.000 And in that movie, there was a case of 12 guys are planting trees on the side of a mountain in Washington state.

00:22:43.000 And there's a herd of elk at the bottom of the mountain.

00:22:47.000 And all of these guys see this classic UFO come up the mountain, hover over one elk.

00:22:55.000 The herd scatters, but one elk doesn't.

00:22:56.000 It just stands there.

00:22:58.000 And then without anything between the UFO and the elk, it picks the elk up and it's gone.

00:23:06.000 The guys all say, F this.

00:23:08.000 I'm out of here.

00:23:09.000 The whole group of planners leave.

00:23:11.000 And the manager for the company says, whoa, guys, hold on.

00:23:15.000 What's going on?

00:23:17.000 So they call MUFON out, Mutual UFO Network.

00:23:19.000 They bring some investigators out and they interview these guys one by one.

00:23:24.000 And they all say the same thing.

00:23:26.000 And they say, what we're afraid of is we're next.

00:23:30.000 They just took that elk, but we're next.

00:23:32.000 So that's in the movie.

00:23:33.000 Keep that in the back of your mind.

00:23:36.000 There's a guy named Carl in Wyoming.

00:23:39.000 He's hunting in the Medicine Bow National Forest alone.

00:23:44.000 He sees some elk 100 yards away, lines up with his rifle, boom.

00:23:49.000 And he says, Dave, it's like everything went into slow motion.

00:23:53.000 I see the bullet come out the gun about three or four feet, and it drops to the ground.

00:24:01.000 He says, I walked over, and he goes, The elk didn't move, and I pick up the bullet.

00:24:06.000 I put the bullet in my pocket, and then two alien type entities walk up to me and they engage them in mind speak.

00:24:17.000 And what they do is they eventually take them on a craft and they take the elk on the craft.

00:24:24.000 And it's like the elk are frozen there in time.

00:24:28.000 And they have him march behind a screen.

00:24:31.000 And they said, We don't want you.

00:24:33.000 You're going back, mind to mind.

00:24:35.000 And he goes, What's going on?

00:24:37.000 He goes, You're going back.

00:24:39.000 He says, The next thing I remember is falling 10 to 15 feet.

00:24:43.000 He's guessing.

00:24:45.000 He hits his shoulder, probably displaces it, and he rolls down a hill.

00:24:50.000 They're already searching for him because he's missing his wife, the sheriff.

00:24:54.000 They take him back and they take him to a hospital.

00:24:58.000 And they're taking x rays.

00:25:00.000 And he had tuberculosis scars as a kid, those are no longer there.

00:25:07.000 And he had other medical issues that are completely cured.

00:25:12.000 The investigators came out and the Wyoming Department of Law Enforcement looked at that bullet and did an exam on it.

00:25:20.000 And they could not figure out what that bullet hit to make it deform in the manner that it did.

00:25:26.000 I have pictures of it in the movie.

00:25:27.000 It's very odd.

00:25:29.000 See if you can find the pictures.

00:25:30.000 Are the pictures online?

00:25:31.000 I'm looking online.

00:25:31.000 I'm looking.

00:25:32.000 Of course you are.

00:25:32.000 If you go to Tubi, T U B I, Missing 411 The Hunted, the movie is there for free.

00:25:38.000 You guys could watch it.

00:25:39.000 Also, check out Gearhead's Gone Wild.

00:25:41.000 It's my friend's show.

00:25:43.000 Okay, so.

00:25:46.000 No tuberculosis scars, the bullet.

00:25:49.000 So I'm talking to Carl and I said, Well, why do you think they sent you back?

00:25:54.000 He says, Well, I think it's because I had a vasectomy.

00:25:57.000 I said, Oh, did they say anything to you about that?

00:25:59.000 No.

00:26:01.000 Okay.

00:26:02.000 So he was 91 years old when I interviewed him, sharp as a tack.

00:26:06.000 How old was he when this encounter happened?

00:26:07.000 I think he was 38, 39.

00:26:11.000 And again, this happened in the Medicine Bow National Forest.

00:26:17.000 Medicine Bow is directly, I'd say about 75 miles northwest of Cheyenne.

00:26:17.000 Where is that?

00:26:28.000 So, at about the same time, the Air Force Base in Cheyenne is having a group of cluster UFO sightings above the ICBM sites.

00:26:39.000 And that was never made public at this time.

00:26:43.000 It was 30, 40, 50 years later through Robert Hastings.

00:26:49.000 And other Air Force personnel came out that these documents started to show up.

00:26:53.000 So Carl would have never known what was happening at the same time these things in Cheyenne were happening.

00:27:02.000 And then you think about what's going on in Wyoming that would cause this.

00:27:05.000 But really, the epiphany to me with Carl is there's a lot of people in the woods that are found, quote unquote, they fell.

00:27:14.000 They always fall alone, and they always fall in places where if you and I are in the woods, We're going to be pretty careful when we're alone.

00:27:21.000 We're not going to be walking off a cliff.

00:27:23.000 We're going to be careful.

00:27:24.000 A lot of these people are found under very unusual circumstances, dead at the bottom of an area that you just don't think makes sense.

00:27:33.000 And they couldn't be tracked.

00:27:36.000 So with Carl, when you think about him being taken, a hunter, hunting elk, nobody gets seen, nothing's heard.

00:27:49.000 So I did a circumference around the area where he went, and it's in the movie.

00:27:56.000 There's a group of German hunters.

00:27:58.000 Carl was German.

00:28:00.000 German hunters that have disappeared.

00:28:02.000 Nobody else but German that have disappeared in that area.

00:28:06.000 And then when you look at the scope of what I've done in my work, I went backwards and I found there's a lot of German people that have been abducted, more than the normal population of people. 0.93

00:28:21.000 And these German hunters really were the opening valve to me that something odd was happening with German. 0.67

00:28:28.000 What do you think that is? 0.94

00:28:29.000 Why German?

00:28:30.000 I really wish I knew. 1.00

00:28:31.000 That's probably outside my pay grade.

00:28:33.000 I don't know.

00:28:34.000 I mean, there's a lot of rumors about the Germans having.

00:28:38.000 Associations with aliens.

00:28:41.000 Oh, during the Nazi times? 0.77

00:28:42.000 Yeah. 0.81

00:28:43.000 Right.

00:28:44.000 Well, there was a lot of like weird occult stuff going on with the Nazis, right? 0.79

00:28:49.000 And they were making like what looked like a UFO. 0.76

00:28:52.000 They were constructing these things that looked like flying saucers.

00:28:57.000 Right.

00:28:58.000 You know the Travis Walton case?

00:29:00.000 Oh, very well.

00:29:01.000 Yeah.

00:29:01.000 This is, I have his bobblehead.

00:29:03.000 He came in here.

00:29:04.000 That's another guy that went missing in the woods.

00:29:07.000 And it's a similar story.

00:29:09.000 It, You know, he was taken aboard some sort of a craft.

00:29:13.000 Multiple witnesses, including people who hated him, one guy who he actually got in a fist fight with earlier that day, and they all told the same story.

00:29:21.000 They all passed polygraph tests.

00:29:23.000 He shows up days later with this crazy story that he had been hit by a beam of light.

00:29:30.000 They took him aboard this craft, fixed him, fixed whatever happened to him, and communicated with him, and then dropped him back off.

00:29:40.000 I know Travis well.

00:29:41.000 In fact, I was doing a conference.

00:29:43.000 In Phoenix, and he brought his son to the conference because the son wanted to meet me because a lot of my work focused around things that happened to Travis.

00:29:53.000 And I think Travis's case is probably not unique, and there's probably thousands of people out there that just don't want to talk about it.

00:30:04.000 They just want it to go away. 0.98

00:30:05.000 Because it's too weird and because you feel like a fool.

00:30:09.000 Yeah, that, and I think maybe they're afraid that they're going to get pigeonholed as what you just said, odd, strange. 1.00

00:30:15.000 You're a crazy person. 1.00

00:30:16.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:30:18.000 Yeah, the Travis case is very interesting because, I mean, this is just.

00:30:26.000 I mean, I'm just saying this, but most people who lie, they lie about a lot of stuff.

00:30:30.000 They don't just have one crazy lie from the 1970s that they keep repeating exactly the same way and have witnesses.

00:30:40.000 The whole thing is very strange.

00:30:41.000 Also, the fact that he went missing in the woods and then showed up multiple days later, there's nothing wrong with him, he's not dehydrated.

00:30:50.000 He's not starving to death.

00:30:52.000 He's fine.

00:30:53.000 He's just weirded out.

00:30:55.000 And he has this crazy story.

00:30:58.000 And it's not like his story is unique either.

00:31:00.000 That's what's very strange.

00:31:02.000 The people that have been abducted, they all have very similar stories.

00:31:06.000 They have similar stories about medical examinations, being taken aboard a craft, things communicating with them telepathically.

00:31:14.000 You know, there's no delusions of grandeur.

00:31:19.000 Like you're the chosen one, you're unique, you're Neo.

00:31:22.000 You're the one we wanted.

00:31:23.000 We came here for you.

00:31:24.000 There's nothing kooky like that.

00:31:26.000 It's all just they want to know what's going on with the human species.

00:31:32.000 And they find a specimen, they do an examination.

00:31:36.000 And it sounds completely insane.

00:31:40.000 But we do that.

00:31:42.000 We do that with species.

00:31:43.000 We do that with other things.

00:31:44.000 We do that with primates.

00:31:46.000 We do that with all kinds of different animals that we research.

00:31:50.000 I mean, people, there's probably someone doing it right now in the Congo, probably looking for some animals, tranquilizing some animal.

00:31:59.000 Doing studies on it, releasing it back into the wild.

00:32:02.000 We do it all the time.

00:32:03.000 Yeah.

00:32:05.000 One of the things I say at conferences is what if we're the ant farm?

00:32:09.000 Yeah.

00:32:10.000 That took a lot of time.

00:32:11.000 So, this is the bullet.

00:32:14.000 So, this is, thank you, Jamie.

00:32:17.000 This is the bullet that this guy shot, and it hit something right in front of him.

00:32:22.000 It just completely deformed.

00:32:24.000 That bullet looks like it hit a wall.

00:32:26.000 Like it hit something like a giant plate of steel or something.

00:32:31.000 I mean, it's just completely flattened.

00:32:32.000 That's not like a bullet that hits an animal.

00:32:36.000 You know, bullets that hit, well, could hit bones and stuff and get distorted, but it wouldn't be intact like that.

00:32:42.000 That looks like an intact bullet that just flattened out, hitting something completely immovable.

00:32:50.000 Very weird.

00:32:53.000 One of the things that Carl said that they told him is when he got on that craft, he said, Hey, you have my elk.

00:33:00.000 And they said, Yes, Carl.

00:33:03.000 They said that we often come down to your.

00:33:07.000 And we take animals and we study them.

00:33:10.000 And you happen to be one of the people that was right there when we were taking that, so we took you too.

00:33:18.000 And I've heard this before from other abductees that just like you said, we look at and test animals.

00:33:25.000 Apparently, they're monitoring the health of our planet by testing animals themselves.

00:33:33.000 So he said they communicated with him telepathically?

00:33:36.000 Yes.

00:33:37.000 What did he say they talked to him about?

00:33:42.000 So the elk.

00:33:44.000 Why are they interested in elk?

00:33:46.000 That's a good question.

00:33:47.000 Because they're cool.

00:33:49.000 Elk are very cool.

00:33:51.000 Pretty cool.

00:33:52.000 Yes, they are.

00:33:55.000 Now, that's an interesting point because there are more hunters that are abducted or that disappear hunting elk than any other animal.

00:34:05.000 And it's not that there's more hunters hunting elk, there's more hunters hunting deer.

00:34:09.000 On the whole, in the United States.

00:34:12.000 But for some reason, there's more hunters that disappear hunting elk.

00:34:15.000 And I've said this in my books before.

00:34:17.000 Well, as a hunter, one thing that I would say is that when you're hunting elk, you're in the backcountry for the most part.

00:34:24.000 You're in wild, remote areas with mountains.

00:34:29.000 You're in a place with very few people.

00:34:31.000 It's very hard to get to them.

00:34:34.000 Whereas deer hunting, a lot of it is done on farms, a lot of it is done on flat land, a lot of tree stand hunting.

00:34:41.000 Deer, white tailed deer specifically in America.

00:34:44.000 North America are the most hunted animal.

00:34:47.000 But if you've ever gone whitetail hunting, a lot of it is in and around farmland.

00:34:53.000 And you never, very rarely at least, you're hunting whitetail deer in the mountains, remote mountain ranges.

00:35:01.000 Mule deer, you hunt mule deer in remote mountain ranges.

00:35:04.000 But whitetail deer, they tend to populate around humans and around agriculture.

00:35:11.000 So that kind of makes sense.

00:35:16.000 If they're trying to not be detected by as many people, you would probably.

00:35:22.000 Also, you probably.

00:35:24.000 If you're going to abduct someone and be reasonably sure that no one was going to see you do it, you would probably go where there's very few people and just some random guy who's decided to hike up to 10,000 feet and chase a herd of elk.

00:35:42.000 Another thing I've heard from Carl is that he was told that these entities, whoever they are, have the ability to freeze time and space.

00:35:55.000 And remember when I said elk.

00:35:57.000 The elk he was looking at, he said he shot and they didn't move.

00:36:00.000 It's like they were frozen.

00:36:01.000 And they were frozen in that same position when he got on the craft.

00:36:06.000 Time and space being that everything around him, nobody could walk in, nobody could walk out.

00:36:11.000 It's like the time and space that he and the entity and the elk were in were frozen.

00:36:18.000 It's a hard thing to grasp, but I've heard this before.

00:36:22.000 It is a hard thing to grasp, but the people that speculate on how these.

00:36:27.000 Advanced species, whatever they are, they're able to travel.

00:36:32.000 That there's some sort of manipulation of space time.

00:36:36.000 That it's not as simple as what we do, which is very crude.

00:36:40.000 We do propulsion.

00:36:41.000 We burn things and push stuff out the back and it makes stuff go forward.

00:36:46.000 Or we have an internal combustion engine that does the same thing it makes explosions inside the engine, burns things, pushes the pistons around, forces the transmission, and it moves.

00:36:59.000 These things supposedly do, and again, this is all just crazy talk, but what they're able to do is manipulate space time itself and instantaneously travel from one place to the next because they have a control over the universe in a way that, with us, it's like completely theoretical.

00:37:19.000 Like, there's this woman that speculates that in the future, someday, you know, with many, many, many advancements and who knows how many years of, we will be able to travel quantumly, like the way.

00:37:30.000 Quantum particles are entangled.

00:37:33.000 She believes that perhaps the entire universe works that way and that everything is connected, and that this thing that we have this idea that the distance between stars is far too vast for a human to travel because you can't travel past the speed of light.

00:37:52.000 And if you did travel past the speed of light, it would still take you know, even if you went like two times the speed of light or three times the speed of light, it would still take thousands and thousands of years to just get to the closest planets outside of our solar system.

00:38:05.000 And she thinks that one day, perhaps, if not humans or whatever's coming after humans, we'll be able to quantumly travel.

00:38:15.000 And you would imagine that would involve some sort of manipulation of space and time that we can't quite understand.

00:38:26.000 We're just talking about it like it's magic.

00:38:28.000 But again, if you were talking to someone from the 1400s about a cell phone, hey, I can FaceTime my friend in Australia. 0.99

00:38:36.000 They'd go, what the fuck are you talking about? 0.97

00:38:39.000 Well, I pick out this device in my pocket that's as thin as a few slices of paper. 0.99

00:38:45.000 And through that, I can stare at my friend, and he can see me, and I can see him.

00:38:52.000 Like, that's magic.

00:38:53.000 You're talking crazy talk.

00:38:54.000 There's nothing, there's no accord.

00:38:56.000 There's nothing.

00:38:57.000 Somehow or another, there's like, what are you sending that's being received?

00:39:01.000 And it comes into HD video with sound, and it perfectly.

00:39:06.000 Lines up with the way the person's talking, you hear it in real time.

00:39:10.000 That's crazy.

00:39:11.000 That doesn't even make sense.

00:39:12.000 But yet, we just are so accustomed to it that it's normal.

00:39:15.000 Oh, I'm getting a FaceTime call from my friend.

00:39:17.000 Oh, hey, what's up, buddy?

00:39:18.000 You know, we think it's normal.

00:39:20.000 And then you got to imagine if you could just push into the future and imagine thousands of years of innovation and technology.

00:39:28.000 Like, what does that look like?

00:39:31.000 You know, communication used to be you had to shout.

00:39:34.000 You know, Bob's over there 100 yards away.

00:39:36.000 You have to put your hands, we're going to the left.

00:39:39.000 You know, now you could just text him or you could call him.

00:39:44.000 And that the ability to communicate at vast distances.

00:39:50.000 Will one day be very similar to the way we travel.

00:39:54.000 We can travel vast distances instantaneously.

00:39:59.000 Part of the entanglement idea that you talked about, what if you're in Austin and I go back to Whitefish, Montana?

00:40:07.000 And what if we had the ability to think, hey, Joe, I forgot to tell you this when I was on your show and I told you by my mind? 1.00

00:40:15.000 Now, people would say, oh, that's stupid, that's ridiculous. 1.00

00:40:18.000 But I've talked to people that are way smarter than me. 1.00

00:40:22.000 That says that part of this entanglement is that what if you're in space and you're on the far side of the moon?

00:40:27.000 And what if we all have that ability right now to affect others in other places?

00:40:33.000 And our thinking and our mind is really more powerful.

00:40:37.000 And we are this spiderweb of entanglement that we don't quite understand right now.

00:40:43.000 And let me, where this came from is George Knapp, been on a show like 30 times.

00:40:49.000 He had a guy named Colm Kelleher, who was the head of all investigations for Bigelow at Skinwalker Ranch.

00:40:56.000 And George said, Hey, Dave, Kelleher wants you to come out to Las Vegas.

00:41:02.000 He thinks some of the work that they're doing at the ranch right now overlaps with your work on missing people.

00:41:08.000 So I came out to Las Vegas three or four times, met with Kelleher, and we talked about just what you're talking about right now this overlapping of understanding consciousness because it's much more complex than some people are willing or even for us to understand.

00:41:24.000 But what if what's happening on Earth right now?

00:41:28.000 whether it's abductions, cattle mutilations, UFOs, is really something that is so beyond us.

00:41:36.000 We try to think in rational terms, well, they're taking us for our sperm or they're taking us for our eggs.

00:41:41.000 What if it's something a lot more deep than really we could comprehend right now?

00:41:48.000 Like what?

00:41:50.000 I don't know.

00:41:52.000 I'm asking you, Joe.

00:41:55.000 But his point being that all the time they spent almost 20 years at that ranch investigating things.

00:42:02.000 And he tells me about this one incident.

00:42:05.000 And he says, I've got a physicist up on the hill with another researcher.

00:42:10.000 It's two o'clock in the morning.

00:42:12.000 They're looking down at the meadow and they see this bright light.

00:42:16.000 And this bright light starts to get bigger.

00:42:18.000 And if you tell your guy, he could pick it up right now on, if you go to Amazon to the movie American Sasquatch Man, Myth, or Legend, it's my movie.

00:42:29.000 We have it there.

00:42:31.000 And it starts getting bigger.

00:42:32.000 Uh huh.

00:42:34.000 And one guy doesn't have night vision, the other guy does.

00:42:38.000 And this round thing keeps getting bigger and bigger.

00:42:42.000 Till eventually it's like you're looking down a tube.

00:42:45.000 And he says it's almost three-dimensional because you could see something at the far end of the tube.

00:42:52.000 And the physicist is handing the night vision back and they're sharing it.

00:42:56.000 Eventually the tube gets to be about this big that something twice the size of you and I could crawl through.

00:43:05.000 All of a sudden, they see something crawling down the tube.

00:43:10.000 It crawls out, it jumps down onto the land.

00:43:15.000 And they see it's so dark, even with night vision, that they could just see a silhouette and it's bipedal, seven or eight feet tall, all black in color.

00:43:26.000 Is this it?

00:43:27.000 No.

00:43:28.000 Okay.

00:43:30.000 Well, it sounded like it.

00:43:31.000 It sounded like what you're talking about.

00:43:33.000 Is that the documentary you're talking about?

00:43:36.000 No, it's not mine.

00:43:37.000 Something different?

00:43:38.000 Yeah. 0.68

00:43:39.000 American Sasquatch. 0.94

00:43:39.000 Sasquatch. 0.94

00:43:40.000 Man, myth, or monster.

00:43:42.000 Is that what you said?

00:43:43.000 Is that it?

00:43:43.000 That's it.

00:43:44.000 That's it.

00:43:44.000 Yeah.

00:43:45.000 Okay.

00:43:46.000 So this is your film?

00:43:48.000 That is the film, but that's not what I'm talking about.

00:43:50.000 Where is it in the film?

00:43:51.000 Do you remember?

00:43:52.000 It's near the end, like three quarters of the way through it.

00:43:56.000 It's with my interview with Kelleher, and he's talking about it, and this thing, and then it walks away on two feet.

00:44:05.000 And when we talk about this, he said, It doesn't make any sense to us.

00:44:10.000 You know, did we just see a portal open up?

00:44:13.000 And an entity from another dimension.

00:44:16.000 Crawl through into our dimension?

00:44:18.000 And is that the access point that they're using?

00:44:22.000 And can they open this at certain times and close it at certain times at will?

00:44:28.000 And really, that was the first time that I had heard this from someone credible that this can happen.

00:44:35.000 And if you think about the people at the ranch today, they said, well, the amount of energy it takes to open a portal is so many times greater than an atom bomb that it doesn't make sense that that could be the answer to this.

00:44:48.000 Well, maybe their answer to what a portal is is different.

00:44:51.000 But what these guys saw doesn't make a lot of sense to us.

00:44:56.000 Well, the whole Bigfoot thing doesn't make a lot of sense. 0.59

00:44:58.000 One of the reasons why the Bigfoot thing doesn't make a lot of sense is that Native Americans don't have a lot of mythological creatures.

00:45:07.000 It's not like they have a ton of dragons and demons and pixies and wood sprites.

00:45:13.000 There's not, but there's over a hundred.

00:45:16.000 Didn't we look this up?

00:45:19.000 The name for Sasquatch?

00:45:21.000 Yeah, there's a bunch.

00:45:23.000 There's like 50 different names that they have for this one thing that they universally described as a bipedal, hairy, ape like creature that's eight to 10 feet tall.

00:45:36.000 And there's so many sightings of this one thing.

00:45:41.000 It's not like people keep talking about different animals.

00:45:45.000 Like, I saw an elephant that has six legs. 0.97

00:45:48.000 No, it's always bipedal hominids. 0.99

00:45:54.000 It's weird.

00:45:55.000 It's a weird story because, like, I've never seen compelling Bigfoot footage. 0.99

00:46:02.000 It all looks bullshit. 0.99

00:46:03.000 The Patterson footage, I think, is nonsense. 1.00

00:46:05.000 I think it's a guy in a monkey suit for sure.

00:46:08.000 I think most of what you see in terms of like photographic evidence is nonsense.

00:46:15.000 But there's too many stories.

00:46:17.000 There's too many stories for me to completely dismiss it.

00:46:21.000 And I've always wondered if it's some sort of an interdimensional experience.

00:46:28.000 And that this thing may be the fact that it's in the woods and that they happen under heightened awareness because you're in the woods and you're probably very nervous and freaked out.

00:46:42.000 So you're probably in a very bizarre state of mind.

00:46:46.000 And all of a sudden you encounter something that makes zero sense.

00:46:51.000 And the same thing gets encountered by people over and over again.

00:46:55.000 And you could write that out.

00:46:57.000 Now, if you're a cynical person or a rational person, which I'm neither one of those.

00:47:01.000 You could write it off and you could say, well, there's an archetype.

00:47:06.000 People have talked about this creature for so long that that's what you expect to see, so that's what you make yourself see.

00:47:13.000 You know, maybe.

00:47:14.000 Maybe.

00:47:15.000 Maybe it's a bear that walks on two legs because we know they do that, particularly black bears.

00:47:20.000 They walk on two legs all the time.

00:47:22.000 I've seen them walk on two legs.

00:47:23.000 It's very weird.

00:47:25.000 But they don't describe it like a bear, they describe it like an ape.

00:47:31.000 They say it has long arms like an ape and that it looks at you and that these things exist in the forest, like deep in the forest where there's no people.

00:47:42.000 And then when people go out there, they encounter them.

00:47:46.000 And the story is just, it's like the UFO abduction story.

00:47:50.000 It's so similar.

00:47:52.000 It's so similar over and over again, like a very similar story.

00:47:57.000 And you've always got to separate the kooky stories because there's always a bunch of crazy people that make things up.

00:48:03.000 There's a bunch of people that are probably on psychiatric drugs or they're tripping balls on mushrooms or whatever it is.

00:48:08.000 There's a bunch of people that see things that maybe aren't there at all.

00:48:11.000 But then there's enough of these stories where you got to go, man, if just one of these is true.

00:48:18.000 One out of a hundred, and then there's thousands of them.

00:48:21.000 Like, how?

00:48:22.000 What is going on?

00:48:25.000 Not an ape.

00:48:27.000 It's not a gorilla.

00:48:28.000 If it was, we'd have it in the zoo, and we don't.

00:48:33.000 It walks like a man.

00:48:34.000 Ape and gorillas don't walk like a man.

00:48:36.000 Well, Gigantopithecus did, right? 0.85

00:48:38.000 No.

00:48:39.000 There's no evidence it was bipedal at all.

00:48:39.000 It didn't?

00:48:41.000 I thought it was the jaw structure.

00:48:44.000 So they have one piece of jaw and a bunch of teeth, and there's a lot of theories behind that, but there's no evidence it was bipedal.

00:48:52.000 Oh.

00:48:53.000 That's number one.

00:48:54.000 Number two, there's no evidence if it's ever been in North America.

00:48:58.000 Right, but the sightings that they find of this thing are in Alaska and the Pacific Northwest primarily.

00:49:05.000 This is where you get a lot of them.

00:49:07.000 And the idea would be that when the Bering Land Bridge was around before the Ice Age or during the Ice Age, when the ocean levels were much lower and there was more land exposed, that these things could walk across Asia like we know the short faced bear did.

00:49:24.000 And we also know people made it from Siberia into North America.

00:49:28.000 So let's just take Gigantopithecus. 0.77

00:49:32.000 That wouldn't be an environment it could live in, though.

00:49:38.000 That was a jungle animal. 1.00

00:49:39.000 Right in Asia. 0.94

00:49:39.000 Right. 0.94

00:49:40.000 Correct.

00:49:41.000 So let's get back to that.

00:49:44.000 But before you go on, there's also Gigantopithecus they found less than 100 years ago.

00:49:50.000 I believe they were anthropologists and they were searching for different bones in an apothecary shop in China and they found a molar that was extraordinarily large, like way too large.

00:50:04.000 And it was a primate molar.

00:50:05.000 And they were like, what is this?

00:50:07.000 And so they took them to where they found it.

00:50:10.000 And then as they started digging, they found some more bones and some different things.

00:50:13.000 How much stuff have they found of Gigantopithecus?

00:50:16.000 Only jaws and teeth.

00:50:18.000 That's it.

00:50:19.000 Yeah, this says it was.

00:50:22.000 Now imagine if they never found that.

00:50:24.000 Here's the question if they never found any of that stuff, Show me what they got.

00:50:28.000 I mean, it says what they have here.

00:50:31.000 Okay, we only have jaws and teeth for Gigantopithecus, not pelvis, leg bones, or full skeleton, so its exact gait can't be observed directly.

00:50:38.000 Researchers infer its posture and locomotion by comparing its anatomy and evolutionary relationships with living great apes, especially orangutans, which are all quadrupedal and not habitual bipeds.

00:50:49.000 So, why do they think it's.

00:50:52.000 Okay, no, Gigantopithecus is not thought to have been bipedal.

00:50:56.000 Scientific consensus is that it was a large, mostly quadrupedal ape.

00:50:59.000 So, why do some people say it's bipedal?

00:51:02.000 Where the idea came from.

00:51:04.000 Where the idea came from.

00:51:05.000 Okay, a minority of researchers and many Bigfoot enthusiasts have proposed a bipedal gigantopithecus, often linking it to Sasquatch, but those arguments rely on speculative interpretations of jaw shape rather than solid postcranial fossils.

00:51:21.000 These bipedal reconstructions are generally rejected by specialists in fossil apes who regard them as highly unlikely given current evidence.

00:51:30.000 So, perplexity, our AI sponsor, says no.

00:51:35.000 Says Bigfoot something different.

00:51:38.000 But the thing is, if Gigantopithecus was a real thing and all we have is a tiny amount of fossilized bones and teeth, how many things make fossils?

00:51:51.000 Very few.

00:51:52.000 Very few.

00:51:53.000 So there very well could have been a bipedal ape like a human that was much larger. 0.86

00:51:59.000 I mean, we know at one point in time bipedal hominids, like the early versions of human beings, were very hairy and some of them were larger than us.

00:52:11.000 We just don't have fossils because most things don't leave fossils.

00:52:14.000 Like the fossil record is incredibly incomplete, right?

00:52:18.000 Oh, yeah.

00:52:19.000 Yeah.

00:52:20.000 So, you know, in East Texas, there's a lot of Bigfoot sightings.

00:52:23.000 Really?

00:52:24.000 East Texas?

00:52:24.000 East Texas.

00:52:25.000 This episode is brought to you by Visible.

00:52:28.000 Ah, spring is in the air, which means time for some spring cleaning.

00:52:33.000 We're cleaning out the garage and finally tossing those mystery cords.

00:52:38.000 But while you're cleaning out your junk drawer, take a look at your wireless bill.

00:52:42.000 Don't fall for wireless traps, tacked on fees, confusing bills, and empty promises.

00:52:49.000 Join Visible and cut out the nonsense.

00:52:52.000 With Visible, you get unlimited 5G data and hotspot on Verizon's network for one flat cost just $25 a month, taxes and fees included.

00:53:05.000 It's everything you need and nothing you don't.

00:53:08.000 Plus, for a limited time, new members can get the Visible plan for just $20 a month.

00:53:15.000 For one year using code FRESH START.

00:53:19.000 Refresh your wireless with Visible.

00:53:22.000 Head to Visible.com to get started.

00:53:25.000 Terms apply.

00:53:26.000 Limited time offer.

00:53:27.000 Subject to change.

00:53:29.000 See Visible.com for plan features and network management details.

00:53:35.000 What kind of terrain?

00:53:39.000 Mushy, swampy.

00:53:41.000 Okay.

00:53:43.000 Wet.

00:53:44.000 Yeah, right on the border.

00:53:46.000 East Texas.

00:53:47.000 Tennessee.

00:53:48.000 The border of what?

00:53:49.000 Oklahoma?

00:53:50.000 No, down in the ocean.

00:53:52.000 Oh, okay.

00:53:54.000 So, when you talked about, you were talking about Alaska, Pacific Northwest, a lot of Bigfoot sightings.

00:54:01.000 A lot of Bigfoot sightings in Tennessee, too, Kentucky.

00:54:05.000 A lot of moonshine in Kentucky, Tennessee, too.

00:54:08.000 Yes, a lot of people smoking crank.

00:54:10.000 Yes.

00:54:12.000 So.

00:54:13.000 So, after I was a policeman, I had a master's degree.

00:54:16.000 I worked in technology for a while.

00:54:18.000 I had a master's in HR.

00:54:20.000 I ran HR organizations.

00:54:21.000 Did that for five, six, seven years.

00:54:24.000 I said I had enough and I'm leaving.

00:54:26.000 I had young kids.

00:54:27.000 I was going to leave with my family and have fun.

00:54:30.000 Two founders of this company, super rich, come to me and they say, Hey, Dave, we got a job for you at your own space, at your own will.

00:54:39.000 Here's the story.

00:54:40.000 When they were younger, they didn't know each other.

00:54:43.000 They grew up in different parts.

00:54:44.000 They went up into the woods with their families, backpacking, camping, having fun.

00:54:51.000 They get up in the middle of the night, take a leak.

00:54:54.000 And independently didn't know each other, they saw Bigfoot.

00:54:59.000 Bigfoot.

00:55:00.000 They found each other.

00:55:02.000 They formed this company, made millions of dollars.

00:55:05.000 One day they're at lunch and they start talking to each other and they had the same experience.

00:55:10.000 They said, wow, that's freaking bizarre.

00:55:13.000 So let's get to the bottom of it.

00:55:15.000 So I'm leaving.

00:55:16.000 They know I have an investigative background.

00:55:17.000 They said, hey, we're going to hire you.

00:55:19.000 We want you to go find out if it's true, false, or hoax.

00:55:23.000 They hired you to go check to see if Bigfoot was real?

00:55:27.000 Flipped the whole bill.

00:55:29.000 They said, you do it at your own pace.

00:55:31.000 Own will will pay for everything.

00:55:33.000 I said, not interested.

00:55:35.000 They came back to me like four or five times.

00:55:37.000 Finally, at the end of a year, my wife is divorcing me.

00:55:40.000 I now have only 50% custody.

00:55:43.000 I have 50% of my life open to do whatever I want.

00:55:46.000 They came at me again.

00:55:47.000 I said, okay.

00:55:49.000 I'm going to shorten it down to from what took five years to five minutes.

00:55:55.000 Tennessee, Great Smoky Mountain National Park.

00:55:59.000 There was a man there named Scott Carpenter.

00:56:03.000 Scott.

00:56:04.000 Rest his soul has since died.

00:56:07.000 But he took me into an area in the park.

00:56:10.000 And he said, Dave, this is the part where I've had all kinds of evidence.

00:56:14.000 What kind of evidence?

00:56:16.000 Footprints, hair.

00:56:20.000 Hair. 0.94

00:56:20.000 Hair? 0.94

00:56:21.000 So has he ever had the hair analyzed?

00:56:24.000 Okay.

00:56:24.000 So we start talking about it.

00:56:26.000 How can we get a good sample of hair?

00:56:29.000 So I said, you know, with bear, they take bear samples and DNA samples from bear all the time.

00:56:35.000 Let's try this.

00:56:36.000 Let's take some packaging tape, wrap it inside out on the outside of a tree.

00:56:41.000 Put something at the fork of the tree, some kind of food, whatever, honey, something. 0.54

00:56:48.000 If they lean up against the tree, it's going to pull the hair out, which we need the follicle for the DNA.

00:56:54.000 Let's see if that works.

00:56:56.000 He says, Brian, we did it.

00:56:59.000 It worked.

00:57:00.000 In that area, we had tracks.

00:57:02.000 Now, just so you know and everyone else knows, there's hair and fiber experts in the world.

00:57:08.000 And they testify in Superior Court all the time.

00:57:11.000 Like out in the lobby, you have all these different kinds of animals.

00:57:13.000 If we took a hair from one animal and gave it to a hair and fiber expert, he could tell you within two minutes what animal that came from because every hair looks different.

00:57:23.000 So we took those hairs, went to a hair and fiber expert, and they said, Well, where'd you get that?

00:57:28.000 And I go, What do you mean?

00:57:29.000 We've never seen that hair before.

00:57:31.000 It's not classified, it doesn't exist.

00:57:35.000 Hmm.

00:57:36.000 Okay.

00:57:36.000 So that means we're on to something.

00:57:38.000 So then I took.

00:57:39.000 Does it have follicle?

00:57:40.000 Can they do DNA on it or is it just hair?

00:57:42.000 They did.

00:57:43.000 Okay.

00:57:43.000 It did.

00:57:44.000 So I called the.

00:57:45.000 I was living in California at the time.

00:57:47.000 I called the University of California, Davis, the biggest animal lab in the world.

00:57:52.000 And they said, what do you got?

00:57:53.000 And I explained it.

00:57:53.000 They said, Bigfoot, we're not touching it.

00:57:55.000 We don't want anything to do with it.

00:57:58.000 I went to the University of Texas, UC Davis.

00:58:01.000 I went to like six or seven.

00:58:03.000 No one would touch it.

00:58:04.000 But then I found a woman that testified in the courts here in Texas.

00:58:10.000 As a DNA expert, I call her up.

00:58:12.000 Her name is Melba Ketchum.

00:58:15.000 Dr. Ketchum, I have this sample here.

00:58:18.000 Would you be willing to do DNA analysis on it?

00:58:20.000 Absolutely.

00:58:21.000 It's going to cost you so many thousands of dollars.

00:58:23.000 I go, no problem.

00:58:24.000 We've got somebody who's going to pay.

00:58:27.000 So she goes, okay, let's do one better.

00:58:29.000 Dave, send me the sample.

00:58:30.000 Let me look at it first.

00:58:31.000 I'm going to give it to my hair and fiber expert.

00:58:33.000 They look at it.

00:58:36.000 A hair and fiber expert says, it's nothing we've ever seen, so that's good.

00:58:40.000 So she goes, okay, here's what we're going to do.

00:58:42.000 Can you get any more samples?

00:58:45.000 I said, I have an idea.

00:58:47.000 Let me try.

00:58:48.000 So I go on coast to coast and I laid it out.

00:58:53.000 I said, hey, we have these samples.

00:58:55.000 We're looking for hair samples. 0.97

00:58:56.000 Don't bullshit us because we'll know right away. 0.95

00:59:00.000 Send us hair samples with everything attached and we're going to send it to a lab. 0.99

00:59:06.000 You don't have to pay the bill.

00:59:08.000 We got 125 valid samples that were not deer, antelope, bear, whatever.

00:59:17.000 She goes through the DNA analysis on it.

00:59:19.000 I think it cost us $400,000 at the end of the day.

00:59:23.000 It's a lot less expensive now.

00:59:26.000 And they all.

00:59:28.000 So hair will give you mitochondrial DNA from the maternal side, but it won't give you fraternal DNA from the father's side.

00:59:37.000 That you need nuclear DNA, blood, tissue, saliva.

00:59:43.000 And we got some of those.

00:59:45.000 Son of a gun. 0.85

00:59:48.000 At the end of the day, the DNA comes back 12,000 to 15,000 years to the Middle East on the mother's side.

00:59:58.000 Father's side, it doesn't exist in GenBank.

01:00:02.000 352 billion base pairs of DNA does not exist.

01:00:06.000 The father's DNA does not exist.

01:00:09.000 GenBank says it's impossible.

01:00:12.000 Since that time, other people have come forward and said, hey, you know on the elongated skulls?

01:00:20.000 We've had the same problem.

01:00:21.000 We can't find the fraternal DNA just like you.

01:00:25.000 That's a guy named L.A. Marzulli that was doing the research there.

01:00:29.000 And then Ron Moorhead, who's doing other DNA studies on elongated skulls in South America, said the same thing.

01:00:36.000 That's odd, Dave.

01:00:39.000 So the maternal, we understand.

01:00:43.000 The fraternal, we don't.

01:00:46.000 And the DNA, they did a paper about it.

01:00:50.000 It's online.

01:00:53.000 I've had a lot of people say, oh, you know what, that's BS.

01:00:57.000 It's bad.

01:00:59.000 But nobody else has ever done a test.

01:01:02.000 And I could get you more hair within two weeks if we wanted to.

01:01:06.000 Nobody wants to test it.

01:01:07.000 I'll test it.

01:01:08.000 What do we have to do?

01:01:09.000 The truth is, the truth is, the truth is.

01:01:13.000 Jamie, you ready to go?

01:01:14.000 Let's go.

01:01:14.000 Let's get some tape.

01:01:17.000 The truth is, it'll all come back the same.

01:01:19.000 And I believe that the researchers who have done it, they've gotten the same results.

01:01:24.000 And so if you say that on the fraternal side, it doesn't exist, on the maternal side, it's showing thousands.

01:01:32.000 Explain that again?

01:01:33.000 So, look.

01:01:35.000 Like, I'm Greek.

01:01:37.000 So they could chase my DNA backwards through time to, I don't know, Greece.

01:01:41.000 Right.

01:01:42.000 10, 15,000 years ago. 0.83

01:01:44.000 Well, they were able to chase the maternal side back to the Middle East 12 to 15,000 years.

01:01:49.000 And what did they say it was?

01:01:52.000 That's all they said.

01:01:53.000 But what they're saying is that, and a lot of people have picked up on this, that has a lot of religious connotations to it.

01:02:02.000 Why does it have religious connotations to it?

01:02:04.000 Because of the Middle East 12 to 15,000 years.

01:02:10.000 Right, but why is that religious? 0.79

01:02:13.000 It's a part of the world 12,000 to 15,000 years ago.

01:02:16.000 What gives it religious connotations other than the fact that that's the origins of a lot of religions?

01:02:22.000 That's it.

01:02:24.000 Right, but it's also humans and different animals lived there.

01:02:27.000 Like there's probably deer down there that weren't religious at all.

01:02:30.000 You know, their DNA tracks back to that too.

01:02:33.000 Specific results she reported.

01:02:35.000 She claimed 111 samples from 34 North American sites produced two patterns.

01:02:39.000 Human mt DNA and unusual or novel nuclear sequences that supposedly did not match known animals.

01:02:48.000 Her interpretation was that about 15,000 years ago, an unknown hominin male population interbred with modern human females, leading to a hybrid lineage whose descendants are today's supposed Sasquatch.

01:03:02.000 How and where it was published?

01:03:03.000 The study did not appear in a normal, established, peer reviewed journal.

01:03:07.000 Instead, it was put into an obscure outlet called De Novo Scientific Journal, which Ketchum herself effectively controlled to get the paper online.

01:03:17.000 Science reporters and skeptics noted the Absence of transparent peer review, the paywall for self published paper, and the lack of independent labs reproducing her findings.

01:03:28.000 But did independent labs try to reproduce her findings?

01:03:31.000 That's the question.

01:03:32.000 Scientific criticism.

01:03:35.000 Geneticists and forensic biologists who examined the data and methodology have repeatedly pointed to contamination and poor lab practice as the most likely explanation for her hybrid sequences.

01:03:48.000 Analysis noted that the mtDNA being 100% modern human is exactly what you would expect from contaminated. or human origin samples, and that the odd nuclear sequences are consistent with mixed DNA, sequencing errors, or low quality data, not a new species.

01:04:06.000 Current status of her DNA claims.

01:04:08.000 No major genetics lab or independent research group has replicated Ketchum's results or confirmed a novel hominin genome corresponding to Bigfoot.

01:04:18.000 In mainstream science, her study is treated as an example of flawed junk science, interesting To Bigfoot enthusiasts, but offering no accepted evidence that Sasquatch exists.

01:04:31.000 But here's the thing did anybody else try to test those things?

01:04:36.000 No. 1.00

01:04:37.000 And let me explain that argument they just used, they're talking to a bunch of idiots. 1.00

01:04:43.000 So when they say it's contaminated, so let's say I contaminated the sample. 1.00

01:04:49.000 Well, Joe, my dad was Russian. 0.62

01:04:53.000 The contaminated sample would show on the fraternal side Russian.

01:04:57.000 It wouldn't show nothing. 0.55

01:04:59.000 Right.

01:05:00.000 That's why that argument makes no sense.

01:05:03.000 Well, I'm not a geneticist, so I don't know if it makes sense.

01:05:05.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:05:05.000 Yeah.

01:05:06.000 Like, if you could say, oh, this is why, you know, if you had someone who understood DNA and contamination and the whole process, they could maybe explain it in a better way.

01:05:17.000 So, what the idea that humans interbred with things is not a new idea.

01:05:23.000 You know, I read something recently.

01:05:27.000 I actually watched a YouTube video and then read an article.

01:05:30.000 I think we talked about this.

01:05:31.000 Pretty sure we did, where they believe that Neanderthal, they used to think that Neanderthal was a subspecies, like a different version of humans, and that they interbred with us.

01:05:43.000 There's a group of people that now are speculating that Neanderthal was the result of humans breeding with another ancient hominid and that that created Neanderthal.

01:05:58.000 So it's not that we interbred with Neanderthal.

01:06:01.000 But that humans actually created Neanderthal by breeding with this other hominid. 0.90

01:06:08.000 So there's only one country in the world that ever took this topic seriously. 0.83

01:06:13.000 Which country?

01:06:14.000 Russia.

01:06:16.000 They took their science academy and took the five top scientists. 0.76

01:06:20.000 This happened 40 years ago.

01:06:22.000 And they started studying what was called Almasti, the same as our Bigfoot.

01:06:27.000 Okay.

01:06:28.000 And I'm not bullshitting you.

01:06:30.000 This is 100% true.

01:06:32.000 Two of their scientists came to the U.S., I met one of them. at a conference in Colorado seven or eight years ago.

01:06:41.000 And I walk into the room and he's holding both of my books as I walk in.

01:06:46.000 And he says, Dave, you're the only guy to tell the truth out of everybody out here.

01:06:51.000 What you're saying about the DNA, what you're saying about the lineage is 100% fact.

01:06:57.000 It's what we found.

01:06:58.000 And we know that they aren't any kind of ape or gorilla.

01:07:03.000 It's a human hybrid that people don't understand.

01:07:08.000 Hmm.

01:07:10.000 So, did the Russians think that it exists currently?

01:07:12.000 100%. 0.85

01:07:13.000 So, how are they hiding?

01:07:15.000 How are they hiding?

01:07:16.000 Yeah.

01:07:18.000 So if you think about, we don't even have the ability to do something with a DNA like they, like whatever this is.

01:07:25.000 It's not.

01:07:25.000 You mean making a hybrid?

01:07:27.000 Okay.

01:07:27.000 You're right.

01:07:28.000 So something far greater than us has learned to manipulate DNA.

01:07:35.000 And if you think that Bigfoot is interdimensional, then wherever that came from probably makes a whole lot more sense scientifically than something organically made here.

01:07:51.000 And therein lies the reason that we haven't found a body.

01:07:57.000 It can move in and out like it did through that tube at Skinwalker Ranch.

01:08:02.000 And there's footage in our movie of what appears to be a Bigfoot evaporating into nothingness.

01:08:11.000 What footage is this?

01:08:13.000 Filmed by Scott Carpenter.

01:08:14.000 What is it called?

01:08:16.000 What's the same one that we're just talking about?

01:08:18.000 Can we see that footage?

01:08:18.000 American Sasquatch.

01:08:19.000 Where is that in the film?

01:08:22.000 It's.

01:08:22.000 During my interview with Scott.

01:08:25.000 And so, who took this footage?

01:08:26.000 Scott.

01:08:28.000 And what year was this taken?

01:08:33.000 Sometime in the last 10 years.

01:08:35.000 Okay.

01:08:36.000 And it shows something evaporating, like that there's it looks like a Bigfoot evaporating into nothing.

01:08:44.000 What you see is something kind of like smokiness looking down a trail.

01:08:51.000 And then it slowly evolves to look like something.

01:08:55.000 That you and I would call Bigfoot.

01:08:57.000 Okay.

01:09:00.000 So, what you're saying is that we're not dealing with a standard biological organism.

01:09:09.000 We're dealing with something that's probably the product of some advanced species, and that they've created this thing, and this thing has the ability to move in ways and appear and reappear in ways that don't make any sense to us.

01:09:27.000 Correct.

01:09:28.000 Well, that would make sense if it was true. 0.99

01:09:31.000 And again, putting that fucking tinfoil hat on tight right now. 0.97

01:09:37.000 That would make sense if you think about how many sightings there are and that there are no bones and there's no body. 0.99

01:09:43.000 No one's found anything.

01:09:44.000 There's nothing.

01:09:45.000 There have been footprints.

01:09:46.000 The footprints are weird.

01:09:48.000 So I'd like to dismiss the footprints.

01:09:51.000 Like, oh, come on.

01:09:52.000 Somebody just made a fake footprint.

01:09:53.000 The problem is there are dermal ridges on these footprints, some of them exhibit what's very similar to fingerprints.

01:10:01.000 And that's very strange.

01:10:04.000 And these are going back decades.

01:10:06.000 So, super hard to reproduce something like that.

01:10:09.000 And someone, you would have, I mean, you'd have to be a very, very advanced person and have some sort of incredible ability to manipulate material science just to be able to create something that recreates a dermal ridge and then use it and make footprints with it.

01:10:32.000 That are similar to what a creature would make.

01:10:35.000 It was very heavy moving through the ground and pressing down on moist ground or mud and leaving footprints that have fingerprints in it.

01:10:47.000 It's weird because these are not, it's not something like, you know, I weigh like 205 pounds or something like that.

01:10:52.000 Like, it's not like that.

01:10:54.000 It's like something that weighs like 700 pounds, like deep into the ground.

01:10:59.000 It's weird.

01:11:01.000 Abnormally heavy.

01:11:02.000 Yeah, abnormally heavy, large feet.

01:11:05.000 But again, no bones, no nothing.

01:11:08.000 And the only DNA, it's like, you know, it's disputed.

01:11:13.000 But of course, people are going to dispute everything.

01:11:14.000 No one's going to look at it and go, this is definitely not human.

01:11:17.000 You know, they're going to go, well, who did this?

01:11:19.000 How'd she do it?

01:11:20.000 You know, oh, this is a lab that's like not doing it well and they're publishing in some journal behind a paywall.

01:11:28.000 This is nonsense.

01:11:30.000 But then you have to think, well, okay, but are any other reputable labs, these reputable labs, are they interested in doing this work?

01:11:39.000 Have they done the work?

01:11:40.000 Have they taken the same stuff and done it through the exact same process, but not found the same results that she had?

01:11:45.000 Or is there no other studies?

01:11:47.000 Seems like there's no other legitimate studies of the same DNA.

01:11:51.000 Dr. Ketchum took that DNA to four certified labs.

01:11:56.000 One of them was the University of Texas.

01:11:58.000 And all of those labs got the same result.

01:12:03.000 She extracted it.

01:12:05.000 They did the analysis.

01:12:06.000 She did the comparison to GenBank.

01:12:08.000 And she did this all herself, or she had other scientists do it?

01:12:12.000 So she wrote a white paper and six different PhDs wrote it.

01:12:18.000 The slam job there, I think it's interesting because have you heard of an organization called BFRO?

01:12:25.000 No.

01:12:26.000 Biggest organization in the United States for Bigfoot sightings.

01:12:29.000 Oh, okay.

01:12:30.000 Bigfoot research organization?

01:12:31.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:12:33.000 From finding Bigfoot.

01:12:34.000 Right, right.

01:12:35.000 So a man named Wally Hersham was their benefactor.

01:12:40.000 He gave them millions of dollars over the years and they had one job.

01:12:45.000 Find DNA.

01:12:48.000 10, 15 years, they said they couldn't find it.

01:12:51.000 We found it in less than a year.

01:12:54.000 Wally came over when we had the DNA and looked at the results, met with Dr. Ketchum, said, I am completely done.

01:13:03.000 You guys have proven to me exactly what it is.

01:13:05.000 I now know what it is.

01:13:07.000 Pulled all of his funding at that point.

01:13:10.000 He was out of the Bigfoot world.

01:13:12.000 And he goes, you guys did what nobody else could do.

01:13:16.000 How come there's no good camera trap photos?

01:13:20.000 You know, like there's a lot of trail cameras out there that hunters use.

01:13:24.000 How come there's no good trail cam photos?

01:13:26.000 Do you think the idea is that these things know that cameras are there?

01:13:32.000 So I think they have that ability to look in the infrared range and they just stay away.

01:13:38.000 Well, if they are from somewhere else, and, you know, we're assuming they're primitive because they're covered in hair, but.

01:13:48.000 What if they have some sort of psychic ability or some sort of intellect beyond what we would attach to an ape and they understand what cameras are?

01:14:02.000 So, do you know what the hitchhiker effect is?

01:14:04.000 No.

01:14:06.000 So, at Skinwalker Ranch, the investigators coming onto that ranch, when they left and they went home, they took those entities home with them.

01:14:15.000 And the entities didn't ever bother the scientists, they bothered the relatives, the wives.

01:14:21.000 They did spooky things.

01:14:22.000 They'd come around, show up in the home, chase the kids around in the yard.

01:14:26.000 What kind of entities?

01:14:28.000 A variety of things.

01:14:29.000 sometimes orbs, sometimes silhouettes of people, but things that never happened before happened after these scientists went home.

01:14:38.000 And they talked about it on their show.

01:14:40.000 And it's happened a lot.

01:14:42.000 One of the things that happens to people that study Bigfoot is they have the same hitchhiker effect.

01:14:48.000 It doesn't matter where you go, for some reason, and you were talking about, you know, maybe they read your mind or something, there's some kind of effect there that they'll follow you wherever you go.

01:15:01.000 As an example, I live kind of in the middle of nowhere, and there's big woods behind my house.

01:15:07.000 And I was walking behind the house one day, one track, middle of a muddy trail, no other tracks anyplace else, 17 inches, just one track.

01:15:19.000 I can't tell you how many times other friends of mine and researchers have had the exact same thing happen.

01:15:25.000 In the movie, I interviewed, I think, seven or eight researchers, all the best ones.

01:15:29.000 They all say this has happened to them.

01:15:32.000 It's that hitchhiker effect that they talk about at Skinwalker Ranch, which goes to the point of it being something extra dimensional.

01:15:40.000 I went to Skinwalker Ranch with my friend Duncan a few years back.

01:15:44.000 I was doing this show for the sci fi channel called Joe Rogan Questions Everything.

01:15:47.000 And one of the things we did was we went to Skinwalker Ranch and we talked to a bunch of people there. 1.00

01:15:52.000 And, you know, some of them were just clearly full of shit. 0.99

01:15:57.000 But there was this one guy who was not. 1.00

01:15:59.000 And he didn't have a lot of stories, but he said there was this one experience that he had.

01:16:06.000 Where these orbs made it into his house, and this orb flew through his wall, was inside of his home, and it seemed like it was interacting with him.

01:16:17.000 And then it was like paused, frozen in front of him, and then took off.

01:16:21.000 This guy seemed like a completely rational, regular guy.

01:16:28.000 Like I said, he didn't have a bunch of crazy stories about other things.

01:16:31.000 I forget what his job was, but it was a regular job, regular guy.

01:16:35.000 Seemed totally normal to talk to.

01:16:37.000 But he said he had this one inexplicable experience.

01:16:39.000 He said it was very strange.

01:16:41.000 He said this thing just flew into his home.

01:16:45.000 He said it was like, I think he said it was like the size of a softball, maybe a little larger.

01:16:50.000 And it seemed like it was interacting with him.

01:16:53.000 So one of the people I interviewed for the movie was a former Navajo Ranger.

01:16:58.000 You ever hear of those?

01:16:59.000 Yes.

01:17:01.000 So they went to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, full law enforcement credentials, super smart guy.

01:17:07.000 He comes back.

01:17:09.000 He works 10, 15 years for the Navajo Rangers.

01:17:11.000 One day the lieutenant calls him in, he and his partner.

01:17:14.000 They say, you got a new assignment.

01:17:16.000 Oh, what's that?

01:17:17.000 You're going to do nothing but investigate Bigfoot and UFOs. 1.00

01:17:23.000 I'd be like, fuck yeah. 1.00

01:17:26.000 He goes, wait a minute. 1.00

01:17:28.000 I didn't sign up for that.

01:17:30.000 He goes, I don't care.

01:17:31.000 That's your new job.

01:17:32.000 Because you guys are the two most credible people I have, you're going to go do that.

01:17:36.000 Well, because why?

01:17:37.000 They had some sort of a suspicion?

01:17:39.000 Oh, they had tons of calls about Bigfoot being on the property, UFOs showing up over property, all the above.

01:17:45.000 Okay.

01:17:46.000 And they wanted some expertise in that team.

01:17:50.000 So he and his friend start investigating Bigfoot.

01:17:54.000 And all of the things I've just told you happened to him and his partner over those years.

01:18:02.000 They get a call at a lady's house that she just saw Bigfoot on her back porch.

01:18:06.000 All the dogs are afraid.

01:18:07.000 They're hiding under the porch.

01:18:09.000 He goes there and he finds a track in a straight line.

01:18:12.000 One thing about Bigfoot, as you and I would walk down a street, we walk staggeredly.

01:18:19.000 Bigfoot walks one foot right in front of the other.

01:18:22.000 And that's how you'll know it's real.

01:18:24.000 Doesn't walk staggered like you and Mike.

01:18:26.000 It walks like it's doing a DUI checkpoint.

01:18:29.000 Exactly.

01:18:30.000 Yes.

01:18:32.000 Like it's walking on a balance beam.

01:18:34.000 Huh.

01:18:36.000 And he talked about the stride was four or five feet.

01:18:40.000 He goes, I couldn't do it.

01:18:42.000 And just like you were saying that the track was so deep in the soil, they couldn't match it.

01:18:48.000 He said it had to have been hundreds and hundreds of pounds.

01:18:52.000 That's just one thing.

01:18:53.000 But over the years, they started to make this association between Bigfoot and UFOs.

01:18:59.000 They did this all on their own.

01:19:02.000 And then he talked about the Native American belief.

01:19:06.000 Well, Native Americans believe that they came from the stars.

01:19:09.000 Each tribe does.

01:19:11.000 And just like you said, all of the tribes have a different name for these.

01:19:14.000 Yeah.

01:19:15.000 But nobody, no tribe believes it's an animal.

01:19:19.000 Really?

01:19:20.000 No tribe believes it's an animal.

01:19:22.000 What do they think it is?

01:19:23.000 It's a human, it's an offshoot.

01:19:26.000 There's a very famous. 0.99

01:19:27.000 They think it came from the stars?

01:19:29.000 They came from the stars.

01:19:30.000 There's a very, very famous.

01:19:32.000 Set of stories coming out of the Pacific Northwest, out of the 1920s and 30s, where a tribe of Native Americans hear that there's some people walking down a trail through the woods.

01:19:45.000 Bigfoot walks in front of them, starts throwing rocks at them, doesn't hit them, throwing rocks at them.

01:19:51.000 The people go home, they tell the sheriff, hey, these huge, hairy things are throwing rocks at us.

01:19:58.000 Sheriff says, oh, that's BS. 1.00

01:20:00.000 We'll go out there, we'll kill them all. 1.00

01:20:02.000 The tribe hears about this. 1.00

01:20:04.000 And, Joe, it makes no sense.

01:20:06.000 They have a press conference.

01:20:08.000 Swear as I'm talking to you.

01:20:10.000 And three tribes in the Pacific Northwest have a press conference, and it's in the Oregonian newspaper on the front page.

01:20:17.000 When I found it, I said, How come no other Breakfoot researchers ever talked about this?

01:20:21.000 Why?

01:20:22.000 Because it doesn't support their belief system that they think it's an ape or a gorilla.

01:20:26.000 And here are the tribes saying, It's a tribe of people.

01:20:31.000 We've traded with them at times.

01:20:33.000 What?

01:20:34.000 They trade things with us at times.

01:20:36.000 What do they give you back?

01:20:37.000 Sometimes they will give them ornaments or certain kinds of foods that they have a tough time getting, and they will come back and they will give them certain kinds of food, animals, etc.

01:20:49.000 But in this story on the front page of the Oregonian, they talk about this.

01:20:54.000 And when I've gone to the Pacific Northwest, Joe, there's not one tribe up there that believes they're an animal.

01:21:01.000 None of them do.

01:21:03.000 And they're the ones that have lived with them and handed these stories down over the ages.

01:21:08.000 And they all think that they come from somewhere else?

01:21:11.000 Yes.

01:21:12.000 How do they think they got here?

01:21:16.000 What's their origin story?

01:21:19.000 So there's a man who owned a herd of cattle and was wintering them on the Oregon California border up north of Crescent City.

01:21:31.000 And every year he'd done this.

01:21:33.000 This one year, this is another article in the paper.

01:21:36.000 This one year, He's they winter with the Native Americans there.

01:21:42.000 He sees this Native American walking with a tray of food, doesn't think much of it the first day.

01:21:47.000 Second day, he sees the guy walk up into the mountains up to this cliff area.

01:21:52.000 Guy comes back and he says, Hey, uh, what's that for?

01:21:54.000 He goes, I can't talk to you about that.

01:21:57.000 So he goes straight to the chief, he owns all the cattle, he's working with the Native Americans.

01:22:01.000 He goes to the chief, the chief goes, We've got Harry Moon up there.

01:22:07.000 Harry Moon, he goes, Yeah.

01:22:09.000 This thing came and it comes every couple months.

01:22:12.000 There's usually two of them that come together.

01:22:15.000 He goes, Well, what do you mean?

01:22:16.000 He says, We see a moon come out of the sky.

01:22:19.000 It's very bright.

01:22:20.000 It comes down near the land.

01:22:23.000 And these two jump out of the moon.

01:22:26.000 And they're friendly.

01:22:27.000 They get along with us.

01:22:28.000 And they stay there.

01:22:29.000 And we feed them sometimes.

01:22:33.000 So that was in like 1885 newspaper.

01:22:37.000 And you think about that story, how else would they describe an orb, say?

01:22:42.000 Right.

01:22:43.000 There's no other way to describe it back then.

01:22:44.000 Right.

01:22:46.000 It comes down, these things jump out of it, and they run into the woods.

01:22:51.000 And the Native Americans have been dealing with them for all these years.

01:22:56.000 That's really the story. 1.00

01:22:58.000 Wow. 0.99

01:23:00.000 Now, the rational part of me, of course, wants to call bullshit. 0.96

01:23:04.000 But the part that's willing to speculate, again, if so many people are having this very similar experience with this tall, hairy, ape like thing in the woods, you got to wonder why is it the same thing? 0.97

01:23:22.000 Why is it over and over again?

01:23:24.000 And why do Native Americans have so many different names for this?

01:23:28.000 And when again, they don't have a bunch of mythical animals.

01:23:31.000 It's not like they have tons of these like weird things that no one's ever seen before dragons and no, just one thing.

01:23:39.000 Well, they do have these things called little people.

01:23:42.000 Have you heard of those?

01:23:43.000 What are those?

01:23:45.000 That's very odd.

01:23:46.000 Something that kind of looks like you and me, but they're only about three feet tall.

01:23:54.000 Well, people have those experiences when they do mushrooms.

01:23:59.000 Do you know that there's a specific mushroom that, when you take it, everyone sees little tiny people?

01:24:05.000 I didn't know that.

01:24:06.000 Yeah, there was a recent article about this.

01:24:09.000 You can find it, Jamie.

01:24:12.000 There's one very specific type of hallucinogenic mushroom where, when you take it, universally everyone experiences little tiny people.

01:24:24.000 Like, you know, elves.

01:24:25.000 From ancient stories.

01:24:28.000 I mean, what do you think?

01:24:29.000 Why is that so common?

01:24:31.000 Like, what is that?

01:24:33.000 They saw them on their dishes when eating.

01:24:35.000 The mushrooms that make people hallucinate dozens of tiny humans.

01:24:40.000 Now, we're saying hallucinate, but we don't.

01:24:43.000 If everyone's seeing the same exact vision, that's very strange.

01:24:50.000 Every year, doctors at a hospital in the Yunnan province of China brace themselves for an influx of people with an unusual complaint.

01:24:57.000 The patients come in with strikingly odd symptoms.

01:25:00.000 Visions of pint sized, elf like figures marching under doors, crawling up wells, and clinging to furniture.

01:25:09.000 The hospital treats hundreds of these cases every year.

01:25:12.000 All share a common culprit.

01:25:15.000 I don't know how to say this.

01:25:16.000 Lamao.

01:25:18.000 Lamao.

01:25:21.000 Asi.

01:25:22.000 Asiatica?

01:25:24.000 Asiatica?

01:25:26.000 Oh. 0.83

01:25:26.000 Okay. 0.83

01:25:27.000 Asiatica.

01:25:27.000 Duh.

01:25:29.000 Lamao.

01:25:30.000 Whatever it is. 1.00

01:25:30.000 L-A-N-M-A-O-A. 1.00

01:25:35.000 Asiatica, a type of mushroom that forms symbiotic relationships with the pine trees in nearby forests and is locally popular food known for its savory umami pack flavor.

01:25:46.000 In Yunnan, L. Asiatica is sold in markets, it appears on restaurant menus, and is served at home during peak mushroom season between June and August.

01:25:57.000 One must be careful to cook it thoroughly, though, otherwise, the hallucinations will set in. 0.99

01:26:04.000 Or, don't cook it at all, pussy. 1.00

01:26:06.000 Come on, don't you want to see the elves? 1.00

01:26:09.000 Why would you cook it?

01:26:11.000 Outside of Yunnan and a couple other places, the strange mushroom is largely an enigma.

01:26:16.000 There are many accounts of the existence of this psychedelic mushroom and many people who looked for it, but they never found the species, says Juliana Furci, a mycologist and the founder and executive of the Fungi Federation, a nonprofit group dedicated to discovering, documenting, and conserving fungi.

01:26:39.000 This person, Dom Nair, is on a quest to solve the decades old mystery about this fungi species.

01:26:47.000 And identify the unknown compound responsible for its unusually similar hallucinations, as well as what it can potentially teach us about the human brain.

01:26:59.000 You know, the thing is like, is it teaching us something about the human brain, or is it allowing you to see something that's actually there all the time?

01:27:07.000 What's at the bottom of that?

01:27:08.000 Lilliputian?

01:27:09.000 I was going to show you.

01:27:10.000 Oh.

01:27:10.000 When I typed it into Perplexity, there's at least one.

01:27:15.000 Ooh. 1.00

01:27:16.000 Tighten the Choctaw have something. 0.92

01:27:17.000 Yeah, it says many indigenous nations have their own name for little people.

01:27:21.000 And the English phrase is just a loose umbrella term.

01:27:24.000 Each language has specific words.

01:27:26.000 It usually means something like little people, dwarves, or forest people.

01:27:30.000 The Cherokee have it.

01:27:33.000 What's that word?

01:27:34.000 Yunwi Sunsdai, usually translated as little people.

01:27:42.000 Choctaw, they have another crazy word.

01:27:46.000 Little people and forest dwelling type called Kawi Anukasha.

01:27:53.000 Or forest dweller. 0.96

01:27:54.000 Chick saw have them for little people, small supernatural beings.

01:27:58.000 Yeah, there's so many of these things.

01:28:01.000 Like, corn's medicinal plants.

01:28:04.000 Describes a little person who provides corn and medicinal plants.

01:28:04.000 Uh huh.

01:28:10.000 Well, many, many, many people who have taken mushrooms see little tiny people, see little elves.

01:28:18.000 And in fact, you know, that is a core part of the Santa Claus mystery.

01:28:23.000 You know, Santa Claus.

01:28:24.000 Have you ever.

01:28:26.000 Seen the relationship between Santa Claus and a mushroom called the Amanita muscaria?

01:28:31.000 Do you know that whole thing?

01:28:32.000 Well, one of the weird things about Santa Claus is if you go back and look at old Christmas art, like Christmas art from the turn of the century, all of it has Amanita muscaria mushrooms in it and elves.

01:28:32.000 Yeah.

01:28:47.000 It's very weird that you would connect Christmas with elves and a known hallucinogenic mushroom.

01:28:56.000 And that these little elves and these big mushrooms are all together and it's Merry Christmas.

01:29:00.000 See if you can find some of those old ones.

01:29:02.000 They're really weird.

01:29:04.000 Because it's like, how did we forget that and how did that go away?

01:29:09.000 And there's also the way Santa Claus looks himself.

01:29:12.000 Santa Claus with his red outfit, with his bright red outfit, with the white cuffs and the white buttons.

01:29:20.000 The mushroom itself is bright red with white spots on it.

01:29:24.000 Like, look at these.

01:29:26.000 Look how weird that is.

01:29:28.000 Look, Santa Claus with psychedelic mushrooms.

01:29:32.000 Got to be careful a little bit now because we've talked about it.

01:29:34.000 Some of it has to have been created.

01:29:36.000 Oh, yeah, 100%. 0.97

01:29:37.000 We've fucked up the whole world. 0.98

01:29:39.000 Like, that's brand new. 0.98

01:29:39.000 This is too new. 0.98

01:29:41.000 Is it brand new?

01:29:41.000 That's not vintage.

01:29:42.000 That looks awesome.

01:29:42.000 Look at that.

01:29:43.000 Are you sure?

01:29:44.000 The way I made it.

01:29:44.000 Yeah, it's on Etsy.

01:29:46.000 Oh, yeah, probably.

01:29:47.000 But some of the old ones are real.

01:29:48.000 Like, the one in the middle is legit.

01:29:50.000 Like, that one's legit right there that you just put up there.

01:29:52.000 And that one's from somewhere else.

01:29:54.000 Look at that.

01:29:55.000 How crazy is that?

01:29:56.000 I wrote an article for my website, Santa Claus Was a Mushroom, a long time ago about this.

01:30:02.000 And I probably fucked up the whole algorithm.

01:30:04.000 But if you look at these images, these are ancient images that the one that you had up there with the foreign language on it, where it says psychedelic.

01:30:13.000 Yeah, that one.

01:30:14.000 Like, how weird is that?

01:30:15.000 That these little elves are carrying these giant psychedelic mushrooms with them and they're walking off with it.

01:30:22.000 And this has to do with Christmas, how?

01:30:25.000 Why does Christmas have to do with psychedelic mushrooms?

01:30:28.000 The question is are these compounds, are you hallucinating when you take these compounds or is it opening up your vision to see things that are there all the time anyway?

01:30:41.000 Good question.

01:30:42.000 Right.

01:30:43.000 And like, how many people have gone and taken mushrooms in the woods and seen Bigfoot?

01:30:48.000 It's another question.

01:30:50.000 Like, how many people have taken psychedelic compounds that dissolve the ego, completely put you in a different space in terms of your headspace, and then you're able to see things perhaps that are there all the time anyway?

01:31:05.000 The Bigfoot one is so weird because I always want to dismiss it. 0.98

01:31:09.000 The rational part of me wants to go, oh, shut up, it's all nonsense. 0.62

01:31:12.000 I go back and forth with Bigfoot. 0.98

01:31:14.000 And then the other part of me goes, too many people.

01:31:17.000 Too many people see the same thing.

01:31:19.000 Too many people have had that.

01:31:21.000 They can't all be. 1.00

01:31:22.000 Crazy or liars. 1.00

01:31:24.000 They can't all be. 0.99

01:31:26.000 And if they're not, then what is that thing?

01:31:29.000 And why is there no dead body?

01:31:31.000 Well, maybe because it's not the same as we are.

01:31:36.000 Maybe it comes from somewhere else.

01:31:39.000 And maybe that is the whole experience that the whole experience is weird and that you really can't quantify it.

01:31:48.000 You can't talk about it the same way you talk about, like, oh, I know where a sloth lives.

01:31:54.000 It's a different kind of a creature.

01:31:57.000 So, I've been around some people that say they believe that we're part of a simulation.

01:32:03.000 And part of that simulation is you get enough coins and you can drop in a new entity in the game that can screw with you.

01:32:14.000 Oh, boy.

01:32:14.000 Yeah, you get the right mushrooms.

01:32:15.000 You see little people crawling up your chair.

01:32:19.000 Or let's see how this guy handles a Bigfoot walking in front of him.

01:32:23.000 Right.

01:32:24.000 Yeah.

01:32:25.000 See how much his blood pressure goes up.

01:32:27.000 Right.

01:32:28.000 Well, it's also whatever we're doing in this as a human being going through this life, you know, you have a certain understanding of what's real and what's not real and what to expect and what not to expect based on your life experiences, based on what everybody else is telling you about the world around you.

01:32:28.000 Yeah.

01:32:51.000 And you kind of categorized everything into what's real and what you're going to experience walking through this world.

01:32:58.000 But.

01:33:00.000 Just what we know about the material world is so bizarre.

01:33:05.000 Just what we know about subatomic particles, just what we know about the very nature of matter itself that's all energy condensed in different weird ways, and that most of what atoms are is empty space, and that a particle, like a subatomic particle, can appear and disappear.

01:33:26.000 We don't know where they're going.

01:33:28.000 They can be both moving.

01:33:30.000 Moving and still at the same time.

01:33:33.000 They could be in a place of superposition.

01:33:35.000 Like, what are we talking about with just reality itself? 0.99

01:33:37.000 Reality itself, the lowest observable, the smallest, the deepest we can look at it, it's fucking magic. 0.95

01:33:45.000 Like, reality itself is magic. 0.91

01:33:47.000 And then you have the weirdness of the observer effect that when you pay attention to particles, they behave differently.

01:33:56.000 That's right.

01:33:58.000 And that there's some sort of research that shows that we.

01:34:02.000 Somehow or another, we can actually affect particles in the past?

01:34:06.000 Like quantum physicists talk about this, not kooks like me, but quantum physicists talk about that there's some sort of evidence that the observer effect can affect things in the past.

01:34:20.000 Well, how far in the past?

01:34:21.000 If it's only a few seconds, is it a millisecond?

01:34:24.000 Is it limited to that or is it not?

01:34:26.000 Like, is it the whole world flexible?

01:34:29.000 Is everything malleable?

01:34:32.000 Is everything dependent upon consciousness?

01:34:34.000 And then what is consciousness?

01:34:36.000 Is it simply what's in between your ears?

01:34:39.000 Or are you tuning in to consciousness?

01:34:42.000 And it's just the limitations of your radio that's making the world around you shape into the form that you currently see.

01:34:49.000 And maybe that is why, when you add things to that radio, like psychedelic mushrooms, like the ones that make you see the little people, or the ones that make you see elves at Santa Claus, I think we get real arrogant when we talk about what reality is.

01:35:08.000 Especially when we know from our understanding of reality that reality, again, at its quantum state, is essentially insane and impossible.

01:35:17.000 It's magic.

01:35:19.000 A friend of mine the other day said, Hey, Dave, why don't you go with me?

01:35:22.000 I'm going to go do ayahuasca again.

01:35:24.000 He's done it a few times.

01:35:25.000 And he says, Dave, it'll open up your mind to things that you just don't understand that are real.

01:35:30.000 And he goes, I've done it a couple times.

01:35:32.000 I've had replicant seeing the same thing multiple, multiple times that I know I could never see without it.

01:35:39.000 Have you ever done it?

01:35:40.000 I have not done ayahuasca, but ayahuasca is the orally active form of DMT, and I've done that.

01:35:46.000 Yeah.

01:35:47.000 Is your experience positive?

01:35:50.000 Yeah, I've never had a negative experience, but it is very strange, and it feels more real than reality itself.

01:35:59.000 And you are 100% communicating with creatures, some beings, things that appear to be living geometric patterns.

01:36:11.000 I've had multiple experiences with gestures, with things that look like gestures, where they're giving me the finger.

01:36:20.000 And they were basically telling me that I take myself too seriously. 1.00

01:36:24.000 They were like, fuck you. 1.00

01:36:25.000 And then I was like, what? 1.00

01:36:27.000 And then I was like, oh, I get it.

01:36:29.000 And they're like, right.

01:36:30.000 They were like telling me, like, yeah, yeah, you take yourself too seriously.

01:36:34.000 I was like, oh, you're right.

01:36:36.000 You're right.

01:36:37.000 Yeah, you have to be very careful with the experience because if you're a control freak, if you can't just let go, you can.

01:36:44.000 Lose your marbles.

01:36:45.000 You can really go crazy. 0.99

01:36:48.000 And it's not really recommended to anybody that has a slippery hold on reality already, like people with psychiatric conditions and people that are already kind of fucked up. 0.94

01:36:57.000 But if you're reasonably stable and you are calm and rational and you can just let go, it is a wild experience.

01:37:07.000 It's a wild experience that should not be illegal and should probably be studied and understood.

01:37:15.000 What was the guy that we had on recently, Jamie?

01:37:17.000 The guy who was doing Andrew Gallimore?

01:37:21.000 How do you say his name?

01:37:23.000 Who was doing those?

01:37:25.000 They're setting it up in a country where it's legal, and they're doing IV DMT trips that last like five hours.

01:37:34.000 And these people go and they have this experience, and when they do it, they all encounter similar places, similar beings, and similar patterns.

01:37:48.000 Like they come back with very similar stories.

01:37:50.000 Like they're making a map of the territory of whatever this is that you're doing.

01:37:55.000 And they all have the exact same way of describing it, which is similar to the way I described it before I ever heard of any of this, is that it feels more real than reality itself.

01:38:05.000 Reality itself seems very dull and very mushy and not crisp, if that's the way to say it.

01:38:17.000 Whereas the DMT experience is very vivid.

01:38:20.000 The colors are insanely bright.

01:38:22.000 The experience that you get by encountering whatever these creatures seems way more powerful than any kind of experience that you have in normal everyday consciousness.

01:38:33.000 So, does that drug open some kind of door?

01:38:36.000 Or receiver or trainer?

01:38:37.000 We call it a drug, but the problem with calling it a drug is the human brain makes it.

01:38:41.000 So Terrence McKenna had a great line.

01:38:43.000 He said, If DMT is a drug, everyone's holding.

01:38:46.000 Because you've got to make something illegal that's produced by the human body.

01:38:50.000 Like we know for a fact it's produced in the brain.

01:38:54.000 We know for a fact that the mind actually makes this compound, which is the most potent psychedelic compound known to man.

01:39:02.000 It's very weird when the human mind, the human brain rather, makes.

01:39:07.000 A psychedelic compound that's the most potent compound known to man.

01:39:11.000 Not just that, but it exists in thousands of different plants.

01:39:15.000 The problem is when we eat them, it gets broken down in our gut by monoamine oxidase.

01:39:24.000 Like there's a bunch of different, like phalaris grass is very rich in it, the acacia tree is very rich in it.

01:39:30.000 In fact, there's some scholars from Jerusalem that believe that the story of Moses in the burning bush was Moses.

01:39:38.000 Burning the acacia bush, which has DMT in it, and experiencing God.

01:39:44.000 Which completely tracks.

01:39:48.000 If you think about it, this is what the experience feels like.

01:39:52.000 It feels like you're dealing with an all powerful entity that's filled with love and understanding and knows you better than you know yourself and gives you guidelines on how to live life.

01:40:03.000 And that Moses came back from this experience with these commandments how to live life.

01:40:10.000 That we all agree today.

01:40:11.000 We look at those commandments like these are very reasonable.

01:40:13.000 Makes a lot of sense.

01:40:15.000 So sometimes I'm sitting at my desk and I've got my dog laying next to me.

01:40:19.000 And the dog's looking down the hallway at my kitchen.

01:40:23.000 I've got a great Pyrenees.

01:40:25.000 And she's just laying there looking.

01:40:28.000 Then, like one every four or five days, she'll just jump up at like 10 o'clock at night and start growling at something down the hall.

01:40:36.000 Little people.

01:40:37.000 I don't know what it is. 1.00

01:40:39.000 She sees something we don't see.

01:40:40.000 So, are they always there?

01:40:43.000 It's a good question.

01:40:46.000 And what can the animal see that we can't?

01:40:48.000 Because they definitely see things that we can't.

01:40:50.000 They experience things.

01:40:51.000 I mean, their senses are so different than ours.

01:40:53.000 We just assume that we both live in the same world, but we clearly don't.

01:40:57.000 Dogs live in a different world than us.

01:40:59.000 The world that they experience is rich with smells and sounds, and they hear things and they smell things that we couldn't even imagine what they are.

01:41:08.000 Yeah.

01:41:09.000 The weird thing about DMT is that someone figured out in the Amazon.

01:41:16.000 Thousands and thousands of years ago, no one even knows when, how to make this plant orally active.

01:41:23.000 So, what they did is they took the leaves of one plant and the roots of the other.

01:41:29.000 So, one of the plants contains dimethyltryptamine, and the other one contains harmine, which is an MAO inhibitor, monoamine oxidase inhibitor.

01:41:39.000 And this MAO inhibitor allows DMT to be orally active.

01:41:44.000 Whereas, if you just ate that plant, the monoamine oxidase in your gut would break the plant down and you would never experience the DMT trip.

01:41:51.000 Like, how?

01:41:52.000 How do they figure out how to do that?

01:41:54.000 And you ask them, they tell them the plants told them how to do it.

01:41:54.000 How?

01:41:57.000 Yeah.

01:41:59.000 Right.

01:42:00.000 Like, what?

01:42:02.000 What?

01:42:03.000 But when you think about people that were living in this incredibly rich, life filled jungle for thousands and thousands and thousands of years, and with no contact with the Western world as we know it today, right?

01:42:03.000 Yeah.

01:42:21.000 So this is thousands of years ago.

01:42:23.000 They're living in a subsistence lifestyle, living with animals and plants and fish, and they probably are deeply in tune with the jungle.

01:42:33.000 And deeply in tune with the wildlife and the plants in a way that we can't even possibly understand.

01:42:39.000 And that we've probably dulled all those senses or they've atrophied to a point, you know, where we just assume that everybody sees the world the way we do.

01:42:50.000 And I don't think those people did or do.

01:42:55.000 100%.

01:42:56.000 They all talk about experiences with entities from somewhere else, too.

01:43:01.000 Yes.

01:43:01.000 Yeah.

01:43:04.000 It's a very weird world out there.

01:43:06.000 And that's why, you know, when.

01:43:08.000 Someone tells a story about being abducted by a craft from another dimension.

01:43:13.000 It's so easy to just dismiss them.

01:43:15.000 It's so easy to just throw it all away.

01:43:17.000 But, I mean, look, I was watching Fox News yesterday where they were talking about the different kinds of entities that the United States government has encountered.

01:43:26.000 Yeah, I saw it.

01:43:26.000 Did you see that?

01:43:27.000 Like, have you seen it? 1.00

01:43:28.000 Did you see that shit, Jamie? 1.00

01:43:29.000 But I've been waiting to show you this thing that was part of the movie. 1.00

01:43:32.000 He shows on this, I have it on the screen.

01:43:34.000 That's the box, if you will, the transparent box that Carl.

01:43:40.000 Who we talked about earlier was taken into.

01:43:43.000 Oh, Jesus.

01:43:44.000 Once he was in there.

01:43:45.000 Hold this thought because I got to pee.

01:43:46.000 We'll come right back and we'll talk about this box.

01:43:48.000 I got to pee real bad.

01:43:49.000 We're back.

01:43:51.000 All right.

01:43:52.000 So we were at this portal thing.

01:43:55.000 This guy.

01:43:56.000 So he had this transparent, which I would say is like, you know, transparent cube.

01:44:02.000 This is what he described.

01:44:03.000 Probably could have a sphere in it.

01:44:04.000 So he said he described that showing up and a six foot tall figure came out and.

01:44:04.000 Yes.

01:44:04.000 Yeah.

01:44:12.000 In a black jumpsuit.

01:44:12.000 He didn't want to come there, but said telepathically, come with me.

01:44:17.000 He got in it, and there he saw his targeted elk frozen in beams of light alongside five figures.

01:44:24.000 Human like figures that seemed more spectral than alive, stiff, unblinking, like passengers in stasis.

01:44:32.000 And then the ship shifted and took him 163,000 light years away and ended up on a tower on an alien planet where they.

01:44:42.000 Fixed all of his ailments.

01:44:43.000 A tower on an alien planet under a violet sky.

01:44:47.000 Yeah.

01:44:48.000 And then they said, like, you're not suitable.

01:44:50.000 We can't use you.

01:44:51.000 Because of his.

01:44:51.000 Sorry.

01:44:53.000 Because he's got no jizz.

01:44:54.000 And then he was found miles away, sort of just like how Travis Walt was found.

01:44:59.000 Whoa.

01:45:00.000 Hypnosis sessions later revealed more.

01:45:04.000 What's his name?

01:45:05.000 Auso?

01:45:06.000 Auso?

01:45:07.000 That's the.

01:45:08.000 In quotes, alien.

01:45:09.000 That would be the entity.

01:45:10.000 Auso 1.

01:45:12.000 Okay.

01:45:13.000 Yeah.

01:45:14.000 Kind were experimenting on humans and animals, possibly for genetic or dimensional purposes.

01:45:19.000 Carl's truck was found miles away in impassable terrain, embedded in mud, with him inside babbling about lights and voices. 0.60

01:45:28.000 In impassable terrain?

01:45:30.000 Yeah.

01:45:31.000 Whoa.

01:45:32.000 So there's a bunch of.

01:45:33.000 I mean, so his truck was just placed in a place where it couldn't get to.

01:45:38.000 There's a bunch of pictures that.

01:45:38.000 Correct.

01:45:40.000 I don't know if.

01:45:41.000 I'm imagining he.

01:45:42.000 He drew some of these because in that video.

01:45:44.000 No, bro, those are photos.

01:45:45.000 No, that's it.

01:45:47.000 He holds up this photo, so I think he drew this.

01:45:49.000 Right.

01:45:50.000 So he's an older man and drew what he remembered, so a little bit of leeway.

01:45:53.000 Oh, so he drew the one there, and then someone did an artist recreation.

01:45:57.000 Oh, look at that weird arm, like a knife for an arm or something.

01:46:02.000 He said he thought that those were almost robotic.

01:46:05.000 Oh, interesting.

01:46:08.000 Well, that kind of makes sense, right?

01:46:10.000 That eventually, being this is the photos of the bullet, it kind of makes sense that eventually we would realize why would we travel places where we could just make an artificial person to do it and report back to us everything?

01:46:24.000 Why risk a human's life?

01:46:25.000 100%.

01:46:26.000 Which is what we're about to do.

01:46:27.000 That's what Elon's doing to the moon.

01:46:29.000 He's going to send the robots up to make the stuff on the moon.

01:46:32.000 Way easier than sending people.

01:46:34.000 Of course.

01:46:35.000 They don't need air.

01:46:36.000 That makes sense why he's canceling the Model S and the X. Get to work.

01:46:41.000 Yeah, get those Optimus robots.

01:46:43.000 Because he's transformed some of his factories.

01:46:47.000 They've stopped the Model S and the Model X, and they're using it to make these Optimus robots instead, that factory.

01:46:53.000 And then these robots are going to fly to the moon.

01:46:56.000 We had that idea.

01:46:57.000 No one else, like, you know.

01:46:58.000 Of course.

01:46:59.000 No one else has had that same thing.

01:47:00.000 Yeah, of course.

01:47:01.000 It makes sense.

01:47:01.000 He got a sense that this was a robot?

01:47:04.000 Yes.

01:47:04.000 A lot of people have also said that about the greys, that they get the sense that they're not really an actual physical or a biological organism, that there's some sort of a hybrid thing or some sort of a whatever.

01:47:18.000 The thing that got me about that is that if it's robotic, but it still has the ability to mind speak, that is really advanced.

01:47:26.000 Yeah.

01:47:27.000 Well, I mean, we have to figure out what consciousness is, right?

01:47:30.000 And what communication is.

01:47:36.000 You know, you could have a robot that could speak out loud.

01:47:40.000 So, why can't you have a robot that transmits?

01:47:44.000 Why couldn't, I mean, with sufficient enough technology, it kind of makes sense that you would have something that has the ability to transmit into your mind.

01:47:52.000 So, do you think, when you're studying all these different people missing, and like, do you try to put a percentage on how many of these people you think just got eaten by bears and how many of these people you think are having these kind of experiences?

01:48:05.000 So, if there's any evidence of animal predation, I don't even work with them.

01:48:09.000 I just push them out.

01:48:10.000 They're right.

01:48:11.000 Won't even look at the case.

01:48:12.000 You're only looking at the cases that are super weird that fit that no animals can track, canines can't track.

01:48:19.000 Right.

01:48:20.000 They bring in a professional tracker, they can't track.

01:48:24.000 There's a weather issue in relationship to the disappearance.

01:48:29.000 Sometimes people are found next to water or amongst a boulder field.

01:48:36.000 There's another one, Joe.

01:48:37.000 Boulder fields.

01:48:39.000 Now, if you think about where's the most boulders and granite, it's Yosemite Valley.

01:48:44.000 And what goes through the middle of Yosemite Valley?

01:48:47.000 Water, the Merced River.

01:48:50.000 And that area specifically, that's a hard valley to get lost in.

01:48:55.000 But yet, how do these people get lost?

01:48:57.000 And we're not talking about people going into the backcountry.

01:49:00.000 We're talking about people getting lost in Yosemite Valley that disappear and aren't found.

01:49:04.000 And there's a couple of cases, well, there's probably 10 cases that are just absolutely bizarre.

01:49:10.000 There's a case that was investigated by Yosemite investigators back 40 years ago.

01:49:16.000 As a woman came out and they found her body so far away from a cliff that they said she, their words, she was launched.

01:49:30.000 So it's like if you jumped or you fell, you could only go so far from the cliff.

01:49:34.000 Right.

01:49:35.000 She was found too far from the cliff and they called it launched, but they couldn't understand how she got that far.

01:49:43.000 Not possible with a gust of wind?

01:49:44.000 No.

01:49:46.000 How far was she?

01:49:46.000 Not possible.

01:49:48.000 That's all that, that was their wording.

01:49:50.000 That she had to have been launched.

01:49:51.000 Right.

01:49:53.000 And Norm, I've never seen that wording before in any Park Service report.

01:50:00.000 They're usually very conservative in the way they discuss things.

01:50:03.000 And so this aligns with this idea that they get dropped.

01:50:07.000 Correct.

01:50:10.000 That's very disturbing that aliens would do that to us, just drop us.

01:50:16.000 Like I would think that if they're going to abduct you, hey, place me back in my bed.

01:50:20.000 Be nice.

01:50:21.000 So pay attention.

01:50:22.000 When the next time you see.

01:50:24.000 A story about somebody being abducted, a lot of times they're dropped in their bed.

01:50:29.000 They're not placed, they're dropped.

01:50:35.000 How many of these people that go missing like this under weird circumstances die versus just disappear forever?

01:50:45.000 I would say that it's probably 40%, 50% are never found.

01:50:50.000 I would say that maybe half of that half that's left, 25, 25, Split between alive and dead.

01:50:58.000 But you find out a lot more about the case if you get the body back.

01:51:04.000 Because the body sometimes will show things that don't make any sense at all.

01:51:08.000 A lot of times, the person will disappear and it's an 80 degree day.

01:51:14.000 We talk about that point of separation.

01:51:16.000 You're going this way, I'm going to the right.

01:51:19.000 And 100 yards from where I last saw you, there's a pile of clothes there.

01:51:24.000 And you're thinking, well, it's 80 degrees out.

01:51:26.000 Why is there a pile of clothes?

01:51:27.000 There's underwear, there's socks, there's shoes, everything.

01:51:30.000 Pile right there.

01:51:32.000 He's never found.

01:51:33.000 Where'd he go?

01:51:34.000 Why would he take all of his clothes off?

01:51:37.000 People would say, well, you know, it's hypothermia and there's a condition where you take all your clothes off.

01:51:43.000 Not in 80 degree weather.

01:51:45.000 Not in 80 degree weather, not that fast.

01:51:47.000 It doesn't happen.

01:51:49.000 And so missing clothing, missing shoes are part of this that don't make any sense.

01:51:54.000 If you're in the woods, you're on a trail, you're not going to take your shoes off.

01:52:00.000 It's all very weird.

01:52:02.000 Does anybody ever have an experience where they go and they get abducted and then they ask what happens to some of these people?

01:52:12.000 How many people do you do this to?

01:52:16.000 It must have happened, but I don't know if they've ever gotten a response from it.

01:52:21.000 Has anybody ever asked how many people do you abduct?

01:52:24.000 How many people have you taken like this?

01:52:27.000 I'm sure they've asked, but I'm not sure that they would have gotten an answer.

01:52:31.000 Huh.

01:52:33.000 And then you know that there's a theory out there that there's more than one type or one group taking people.

01:52:39.000 Yeah.

01:52:40.000 Well, this is the Fox News thing.

01:52:41.000 See if you could find that Fox News report because it's kind of wacky.

01:52:46.000 Because watching it on Fox News, you're like, is Fox News all of a sudden coast to coast with Art Bell?

01:52:51.000 Like, what the hell has happened? 0.99

01:52:53.000 Because they were talking about the reptilians and the Nordics, the grays. 0.98

01:52:59.000 Fox News. 0.87

01:53:00.000 TV.

01:53:01.000 Like regular TV.

01:53:03.000 Like, what is going on here?

01:53:05.000 Is that nonsense?

01:53:07.000 Are they being fed nonsense or is this disclosure? 0.53

01:53:11.000 And are they slow trickling this out to us to get regular folks like boomers, get them accustomed to this idea of there are entities out there? 0.81

01:53:23.000 What if they're just acclimating you to the reality of our world? 0.82

01:53:29.000 And what if the truth is that there's people around you?

01:53:35.000 That are aliens and you don't even know it. 1.00

01:53:38.000 I think Elon's a fucking alien. 1.00

01:53:39.000 It's the only thing that makes sense. 1.00

01:53:41.000 I think I've met a few aliens.

01:53:43.000 Definitely.

01:53:44.000 Joey Diaz might be an alien.

01:53:46.000 There's a few people that I've met that I'm like, you're not real.

01:53:49.000 There's no way you're real.

01:53:52.000 But Elon's the top of my list.

01:53:53.000 Like, he doesn't even make sense.

01:53:55.000 Like, I've met a lot of people that are smarter than me.

01:53:58.000 I'm not the smartest guy.

01:54:00.000 But there's only a few people that I met.

01:54:02.000 I'm like, okay, we're not even the same thing.

01:54:05.000 Okay, let's hear this.

01:54:07.000 And this is what Dan from Age of Disclosure.

01:54:09.000 And that's one of the people I interviewed in my film, senior intelligence officials, went on the record saying that there have been dozens of crashed craft of non human origin over the years, and elements of our government have recovered those crashes.

01:54:24.000 And they've gotten out of that technology of non human origin, and in some cases, non human bodies that were on these craft.

01:54:31.000 A number of the people in my film go on the record saying that the bodies were not all the same type, meaning there were multiple species.

01:54:38.000 Were the bodies alive or were they dead?

01:54:44.000 The people in my film talked about events where they were dead bodies, they were deceased bodies.

01:54:50.000 Okay.

01:54:51.000 And there's a lot of speculation about.

01:54:55.000 The amount of UFO information we've been given on this first tranche.

01:55:00.000 We expected more.

01:55:02.000 We know there is more.

01:55:03.000 Why do you think we're waiting so hard to go?

01:55:05.000 Tranch.

01:55:05.000 I've never used that word before.

01:55:06.000 Have you ever used that word?

01:55:06.000 Why are you waiting so hard to release more?

01:55:10.000 Yeah, so the president gave his directive in the middle of February, essentially instructing all federal agencies to declassify evidence of non human intelligent life and UAP.

01:55:19.000 What happened after that is the White House had to go get that evidence out of the hands of all these federal agencies.

01:55:26.000 And they all, for the most part, pushed back.

01:55:29.000 The people who have gatekept this information for 80 years, they don't want to share it.

01:55:34.000 They've gotten a lot of power and control over the years, and it's just frankly not human nature for people to want to give up power and control.

01:55:42.000 So there's a tug of war happening behind the scenes.

01:55:46.000 There are a number of other reasons guiding their desire to keep this secret, including a general belief that the public can't handle the truth.

01:55:54.000 I would argue the public can handle the truth.

01:55:55.000 I think my film shows that.

01:55:58.000 People aren't watching it and jumping out of windows.

01:56:00.000 They're curious and they want to learn more.

01:56:02.000 There's also a general feeling that a concern that they can't tell the American public what they know and don't know without also telling our adversaries and giving them some sort of advantage.

01:56:14.000 But I think that that's.

01:56:16.000 Is that good?

01:56:17.000 Yeah, that's good.

01:56:18.000 Go back to that one weird one in the beginning, the black and white one that looked like a star.

01:56:22.000 That looked like.

01:56:23.000 That's been debunked, I think, by the Walnut.

01:56:25.000 Is it?

01:56:25.000 Yeah.

01:56:26.000 Oh, how dare they?

01:56:27.000 That one?

01:56:28.000 Yeah.

01:56:28.000 That's debunked?

01:56:29.000 But this is one of the more recent ones that was released in this immense.

01:56:34.000 Dump of information.

01:56:35.000 How's it been debunked?

01:56:37.000 I'm going to debunk the debunkers. 1.00

01:56:40.000 Fuck off. 1.00

01:56:41.000 That thing's awesome. 1.00

01:56:42.000 I want that thing to be real.

01:56:45.000 Yeah.

01:56:46.000 That's Dan Farah from Age of Disclosure, which, if you haven't seen it, folks, is an amazing documentary.

01:56:51.000 Very interesting.

01:56:52.000 You know, it's a bunch of different people that have inside information that are talking about it.

01:56:58.000 And here they're just debunking it.

01:57:01.000 The eight pointed star refers to a declassified 2013 infrared military video.

01:57:07.000 Released as part of the government UFO files, the footage was widely debated online and linked to alien or biblical origins.

01:57:14.000 However, experts debunked the phenomenon, explaining it is simply a distortion caused by a hot jet engine's exhaust plume hitting a military infrared camera.

01:57:26.000 Allegedly.

01:57:28.000 I prefer to believe that it's something else.

01:57:31.000 I don't know.

01:57:32.000 Let me add another twist to this missing person thing for you.

01:57:34.000 Okay, please.

01:57:35.000 So it's more of an evolution for me learning.

01:57:40.000 What could be happening in those woods?

01:57:42.000 And I started off in national parks.

01:57:45.000 And the most recent thing I've done, Missing 411 National Parks, Washington State, there's a case where a guy in 2006 disappeared in Olympic National Park.

01:57:57.000 He was a former Army intelligence officer.

01:58:00.000 He worked in Israel.

01:58:03.000 He worked in Africa.

01:58:04.000 He worked in a lot of different places, spoke six languages.

01:58:07.000 And then he started to work in campaigns.

01:58:10.000 And he worked for a woman who was campaigning to be a congresswoman in Washington State.

01:58:14.000 She lost.

01:58:15.000 She became the head of retirement services in the state of Washington.

01:58:19.000 She brought him along as the assistant.

01:58:22.000 His name was Gilbert Gilman.

01:58:25.000 When I wrote the story up for my books, he was supposed to show up at this meeting for her on a Sunday.

01:58:32.000 He stopped off at Olympic National Park, parked his car, was playing the music loud.

01:58:38.000 A ranger came by, asked him to turn it down.

01:58:40.000 He turned it down.

01:58:41.000 He got out and he walked into the woods.

01:58:43.000 He never came back.

01:58:44.000 Huge search.

01:58:45.000 He's never found.

01:58:47.000 That's all I really knew.

01:58:48.000 And I wrote it up like that.

01:58:50.000 Canines couldn't follow his track.

01:58:51.000 It disappeared.

01:58:52.000 Blah, blah, blah.

01:58:54.000 Then I interview, we set up doing this thing for the movie, interviewing his relatives.

01:58:59.000 And I interview his girlfriend.

01:59:01.000 And his girlfriend said she saw him a month beforehand.

01:59:05.000 And she said a week before he disappeared, he was trying to call me like he wanted to tell me something.

01:59:11.000 And I was busy and I couldn't talk to him.

01:59:13.000 And I knew he wanted to tell me something, but then I put it up so something was wrong.

01:59:18.000 I never got to talk to him again.

01:59:20.000 So I start talking to her about his past.

01:59:23.000 And I said, well, did he ever work for the CIA?

01:59:26.000 And Joe, she goes, I don't know if I can talk about that.

01:59:32.000 I said, well, why can't you talk about that?

01:59:34.000 Well, I don't know.

01:59:36.000 I don't think I can.

01:59:37.000 So that means yes.

01:59:39.000 Exactly.

01:59:43.000 So she gets emotional.

01:59:44.000 She's upset.

01:59:45.000 She can't see him.

01:59:47.000 And then we go into the next room, interview his mom.

01:59:51.000 And his mom says, Well, Dave, a lot of people don't know this that before he disappeared, I have a penthouse in Chicago.

02:00:00.000 This woman's really wealthy.

02:00:02.000 And Gilbert has a bedroom there.

02:00:04.000 And he asked me to stack a couple books on his nightstand.

02:00:10.000 And he wrote something on a yellow pad on my coffee table in Arabic.

02:00:16.000 And I said, How long was that sitting there?

02:00:18.000 And she goes, Well, I went one week.

02:00:21.000 And he disappeared.

02:00:22.000 I never got to really look at it.

02:00:24.000 And then I flew to Washington.

02:00:26.000 So I don't know what he wrote.

02:00:28.000 So, Joe, here's the kicker.

02:00:30.000 I said, Well, that's pretty strange.

02:00:32.000 And she goes, No, Dave, what's really strange is I'm in Washington and we're doing this search for Gilbert.

02:00:38.000 And the people who run my townhouse, my condominium, she lives like on the 30th floor, called me and said, Two FBI agents were just here.

02:00:48.000 And they said they needed to get into your townhouse.

02:00:50.000 And I gave them the keys and they went into your townhouse and took some things.

02:00:56.000 I said, Mrs. Gilman, they can't do that.

02:00:59.000 I don't care what they say. 0.76

02:01:00.000 They need a search warrant to go in your house.

02:01:02.000 He can't give permission.

02:01:04.000 What was taken?

02:01:05.000 Well, I went back.

02:01:07.000 The yellow pad was gone, and a couple of his personal things were gone.

02:01:12.000 So I said, This doesn't make any sense.

02:01:16.000 Why would the FBI go into your house to retrieve anything of Gilbert's if this is a missing person case and he has no relationship to the government?

02:01:26.000 And she goes, Well, Dave, you're asking what I've been thinking all along.

02:01:29.000 Now, this.

02:01:30.000 This happened 15 years before I interviewed her.

02:01:35.000 She's sharp as attack. 1.00

02:01:37.000 Girlfriend sharp as attack.

02:01:39.000 And she says, things haven't seemed right.

02:01:42.000 And she said, I think he's alive somewhere.

02:01:47.000 So as she's saying all this, my mind's racing and I'm thinking, how many other people have disappeared in a national park under circumstances that I just heard from a girlfriend and the mom, but I don't know about them because I haven't been able to interview their girlfriends and their moms?

02:02:04.000 And why wouldn't the Park Service give me the information on the report if it was a straight missing person case like this?

02:02:13.000 They would.

02:02:15.000 So, really, is there something more nefarious going on in the parks about taking people that they're in conjunction with some other body, some other three letter agency, to make people go away?

02:02:32.000 So, they're doing this on purpose with people that have information that's inconvenient or that's top secret, or they don't want it being leaked somehow?

02:02:42.000 I had the feeling Gilbert knew.

02:02:44.000 I think it was all planned.

02:02:47.000 He knew that they were going to take him?

02:02:49.000 Yeah, and I think he agreed to go.

02:02:53.000 Why do you think that?

02:02:54.000 Because he left that pad with the writing in Arabic.

02:02:58.000 Did he speak Arabic?

02:03:00.000 He spoke six languages.

02:03:02.000 And we don't know what he wrote down in Arabic?

02:03:03.000 No.

02:03:04.000 Okay.

02:03:06.000 And she also said a peculiar thing.

02:03:10.000 I'm sorry, I don't remember the books, but he asked her to get two books and put on the counter, and she thought that that was a clue to what happened.

02:03:21.000 Dante's Inferno might have been one of them.

02:03:25.000 And I forgot the other book.

02:03:27.000 But she said, Dave, I think that's a clue.

02:03:29.000 I just don't understand what he was trying to say.

02:03:33.000 Huh.

02:03:35.000 But that's also not the first time something like this has happened where somebody disappeared and it was all pointing to the government.

02:03:43.000 In the 1950s, there was a man that was going to Miami University.

02:03:49.000 He played in their band.

02:03:50.000 He was a wrestler for the varsity wrestling team, he was an all round guy.

02:03:55.000 One night, he comes home to his dorm, and strangely, there's a fish in his bed.

02:04:02.000 And he asks the RA for new sheets.

02:04:06.000 She brings in new sheets.

02:04:08.000 He gets them changed.

02:04:10.000 Make a long story short, he disappears right after that, that night.

02:04:15.000 So it's like that's the message that you're going to go that night or something?

02:04:18.000 I don't know.

02:04:20.000 So everything just looks like the guy disappeared from college.

02:04:24.000 Except five months later, the head of housing for Miami University miami, Ohio, is at a city 10 miles north of the Pennsylvania border in New York, a little tiny city.

02:04:39.000 He and his wife are having dinner at a bed and breakfast.

02:04:44.000 And sitting across from them, 10 feet away, are three men at a table.

02:04:50.000 And he says, I'm telling you, that was Ron Tamman.

02:04:55.000 That's the guy's name.

02:04:57.000 And he's talking to the wife, and they keep looking at each other.

02:05:02.000 So they go out to the parking lot and he tells his wife, I've got to go back in.

02:05:05.000 Ron's disappeared.

02:05:06.000 I've got to go talk to him.

02:05:08.000 So he goes back in and all three of the guys are gone, all dressed in suits.

02:05:12.000 That was another indicator that the government had something to do with the disappearance.

02:05:19.000 Now, Ron's family lived in LA.

02:05:21.000 They never saw Ron again, never heard from him again.

02:05:24.000 What do you think they're doing?

02:05:26.000 Like, why would they do that?

02:05:28.000 Well, the question I've talked to my team about this why would the government need you to separate yourself from the family under unusual circumstances.

02:05:38.000 What would be that point?

02:05:39.000 I don't understand.

02:05:43.000 If you wanted to go to work for government services, why wouldn't you just do it?

02:05:45.000 There's a story about fishing Ron's bed on ronaldtammon.com.

02:05:50.000 Is this the right guy?

02:05:52.000 Yeah, that's him.

02:05:53.000 It says this was a prank.

02:05:55.000 Someone confessed it to him in 2010.

02:05:58.000 The fish was a prank?

02:05:59.000 That's what it says.

02:06:00.000 In 2010, he confessed to me the culprit behind the fish prank.

02:06:04.000 Okay.

02:06:05.000 But still, the guy disappeared.

02:06:08.000 Think of it this way.

02:06:10.000 In these emotionally charged and divisive times, when no one seems to agree on much of anything, I present to you the one shining example of a core belief with which all of humanity can surely agree.

02:06:20.000 And at that time, honored value is this no one in his or her right mind would ever knowingly sleep with a dead fish in their bed.

02:06:28.000 Depends on how tired you are.

02:06:33.000 Okay.

02:06:37.000 This doesn't make any sense to me.

02:06:40.000 When these guys just disappear, like you think that he knew he was going to be taken?

02:06:45.000 Ron, I don't know.

02:06:47.000 You don't know, but the other guy that went into the woods, you think he knew?

02:06:50.000 I think Gilbert knew.

02:06:51.000 And how do you think he was taken?

02:06:54.000 That's a good question.

02:06:55.000 He might be a victim of a serial killer that someone else investigated on a TV show 10, 12.

02:06:55.000 I don't know.

02:07:01.000 Oh, that's completely BS.

02:07:04.000 Why do you think that?

02:07:06.000 If a serial killer killed him in the middle of the woods, they would have found his body.

02:07:12.000 Hmm.

02:07:13.000 The guy said that he put at least one, maybe up to eight bodies 100 feet at the bottom of the lake.

02:07:20.000 Oh.

02:07:21.000 Maybe.

02:07:23.000 He admitted to at least eight slangs before he died at age 34.

02:07:27.000 Oh.

02:07:28.000 Didn't say he killed this guy, but.

02:07:30.000 But he killed him in that area?

02:07:31.000 Yeah.

02:07:32.000 Oh.

02:07:33.000 Well, that's possible.

02:07:35.000 That would be why they didn't find the body.

02:07:40.000 They should have found tracks to a kill site.

02:07:42.000 They would have found evidence.

02:07:44.000 Right.

02:07:45.000 They would have probably found some blood.

02:07:46.000 And remember, they were on that from the day he disappeared.

02:07:50.000 And they had dogs.

02:07:51.000 They would have found blood.

02:07:51.000 Yeah.

02:07:52.000 Correct.

02:07:53.000 Unless they strangled him.

02:07:54.000 Well, even if they would have strangled him, there would have been so many people in that area, that guy would have been seen at least.

02:08:02.000 Really?

02:08:03.000 How was this like wooded?

02:08:06.000 You're talking about a lake?

02:08:07.000 You sure they'd been seen?

02:08:08.000 There's a small parking lot, not a big area.

02:08:10.000 Right.

02:08:11.000 This isn't like a real big parking lot, a real big turf area.

02:08:14.000 If this guy had done this to a bunch of people for sure, not right there.

02:08:18.000 No?

02:08:19.000 No.

02:08:20.000 Okay.

02:08:21.000 The guy who disappeared and went to the woods, and you think that guy, what was his name again?

02:08:26.000 Ron Tamman?

02:08:27.000 No, the other guy, the guy that disappeared and went to the woods.

02:08:30.000 Yeah.

02:08:30.000 Gilbert Gilman?

02:08:31.000 Yeah.

02:08:32.000 When that guy disappeared, which is Gilbert?

02:08:35.000 This is the serial killer one.

02:08:37.000 Okay.

02:08:38.000 The guy that you said parked his car and went to the woods, and you think that he knew that he was going to be taken.

02:08:45.000 Yeah.

02:08:46.000 What do you think happened to him when he went to the woods?

02:08:49.000 I think somehow they had some.

02:08:51.000 Extraction method, and who knows what that is.

02:08:54.000 He was wearing Bermuda shorts, flip flops.

02:08:57.000 He wasn't somebody that was going for a hike.

02:08:59.000 That was the other indicator.

02:09:01.000 He was wearing like a Hawaiian shirt.

02:09:04.000 Even the ranger said she thought that him playing the loud music was a signal?

02:09:11.000 That was a signal for her to come over and acknowledge that he was there.

02:09:16.000 Okay, so he planned his disappearance, maybe.

02:09:20.000 Or he wanted her to see her there.

02:09:22.000 See him there.

02:09:24.000 That was the indicator.

02:09:25.000 Do you ever wonder, like, if you're losing your marbles studying all these different things?

02:09:29.000 You know what I mean?

02:09:30.000 Like you're going over so many different cases, so many kooky circumstances, and different people disappearing that your whole perspective on this stuff gets a little weird?

02:09:42.000 I would say so, except I wrote this up as just a standard everyday missing person case.

02:09:48.000 These weren't my beliefs, these were the beliefs of the girlfriend and the mom.

02:09:54.000 And I have to say that the FBI going to that house is completely outside the realm of anything normal.

02:10:01.000 Yeah, that's very bizarre. 0.91

02:10:02.000 And also taking the legal pad with the Arabic writing on it and the books. 1.00

02:10:06.000 Correct. 0.97

02:10:07.000 It's very weird.

02:10:08.000 But I mean, who knows what that's all about?

02:10:10.000 That seems to have something to do with the government.

02:10:12.000 Whereas some of these things seem to have something to do with either extraterrestrials or interdimensional things.

02:10:19.000 Correct.

02:10:21.000 A lot of weirdness in this world, David.

02:10:24.000 I think our world is much more complex than we think.

02:10:26.000 Yeah, I would agree with you.

02:10:29.000 Just like humanity, everyone's.

02:10:32.000 There's a lot of complex people.

02:10:33.000 For sure.

02:10:34.000 Well, certainly the people that have access to this information, like the stuff that Dan Farah was talking about, like imagine the mind of a person.

02:10:44.000 Let's assume that there are really extraterrestrial bodies somewhere.

02:10:49.000 And let's assume that there are recovered crafts and that these people like Bob Lazar really have been back engineering.

02:10:56.000 Don't you imagine being one of those people, one of this select group of people, a small amount that have.

02:11:03.000 Information that's completely different from what the rest of the world has about the reality in which we exist.

02:11:11.000 That we share this reality with things that have technology that is beyond our comprehension.

02:11:18.000 They can do things that we can't even imagine.

02:11:22.000 And that these people all know it's real and that they're holding on to this information.

02:11:26.000 They don't think we can handle it.

02:11:28.000 I mean, the radio shows I've been on and the people I've talked to have said the same thing about me and missing people.

02:11:36.000 It's been a revelation.

02:11:37.000 That this many people are missing in our woods that are unaccounted for, and our government won't acknowledge it.

02:11:46.000 Acknowledging it by releasing a list, releasing the documents.

02:11:50.000 Why can't we see them?

02:11:52.000 But you could attribute that to sheer incompetence.

02:11:55.000 Like the people that are running the parks and working for it, like, you know, you get bad investigators in all sorts of.

02:12:04.000 I mean, you're a cop, you know about all that.

02:12:06.000 What's going on with this guy?

02:12:08.000 This is from two years ago.

02:12:09.000 Gil's mother thinks he might have disappeared to be a spy for the U.S. government and is still alive.

02:12:16.000 And their authorities say that's possible.

02:12:18.000 What?

02:12:20.000 He had a long history.

02:12:21.000 I think he said he was an interrogator and knew six different languages.

02:12:23.000 He worked for the U.N.

02:12:24.000 It said when he went missing, he had survival skills from his military training.

02:12:30.000 He was a paratrooper.

02:12:31.000 Huh.

02:12:33.000 And he had a camera on him, apparently, all he had.

02:12:36.000 So they could have staged his disappearance so that they could position him somewhere else.

02:12:41.000 People would think he's dead.

02:12:43.000 You give him a totally new identity.

02:12:44.000 Now he's working undercover somewhere.

02:12:46.000 Yeah.

02:12:47.000 Well, I would imagine that's possible.

02:12:49.000 I would imagine, like, if you wanted someone to work for you and you say, you know, this person's going to work undercover, some top secret mission.

02:12:57.000 Okay, but you've got to disappear.

02:12:59.000 You've got to disappear from regular life so that we can give you this new identity.

02:13:04.000 We can't just have, you know, your friends looking for you.

02:13:08.000 We have to move you to some new part of the world.

02:13:11.000 So, Joe, if you were me and you were sitting across from his mom, That's really something vile, I think, to do to your parent.

02:13:19.000 Oh, for sure.

02:13:20.000 Horrific. 1.00

02:13:21.000 She was a broken human. 1.00

02:13:24.000 Yeah.

02:13:24.000 No, that's terrible.

02:13:26.000 Terrible.

02:13:27.000 And I asked her, I said, there's a good chance Gilbert's somewhere in the world watching this.

02:13:32.000 What do you want to say to him?

02:13:34.000 She said, Gilbert, just please come home.

02:13:36.000 She was like an 88 year old woman then.

02:13:38.000 Oh, boy.

02:13:40.000 Yeah.

02:13:41.000 Yeah.

02:13:41.000 No, that's brutal.

02:13:42.000 Well, that's a very different thing we're talking about.

02:13:45.000 That's not a fun thing.

02:13:47.000 The fun thing's the alien stuff.

02:13:47.000 No.

02:13:49.000 I'm sorry.

02:13:49.000 That's the fun stuff.

02:13:53.000 I got off track there.

02:13:54.000 No, but I mean, look, I get it because you're dealing with like a wide swath, like a bunch of different kinds of encounters and different things.

02:14:01.000 You know, those, yeah, that's dark.

02:14:05.000 So, do you know much about Mount Rainier?

02:14:07.000 Not much, no.

02:14:09.000 So, do you know that the original UFO period of time started with a UFO sighting?

02:14:16.000 Kenneth Arnold.

02:14:17.000 Right, yeah.

02:14:18.000 So, do you know that when Arnold, do you know what Arnold was doing when he was flying around?

02:14:24.000 No.

02:14:25.000 So, six months prior to that, three transports, Marine transports, were flying from El Toro Marine Base into Seattle.

02:14:34.000 Boom, one after the other.

02:14:36.000 They hit bad weather.

02:14:38.000 One of those planes came around and they lost it.

02:14:43.000 Arnold, there was like a huge reward if he could find it.

02:14:47.000 Arnold was flying by Rainier looking at the mountain trying to see if he could find it, and these things went by.

02:14:54.000 Long story short, months later, they found the transport had crashed into the side of Rainier.

02:15:02.000 First of all, do you know that the Marines never took one body off of there?

02:15:08.000 Did they recover the vehicle, the craft?

02:15:11.000 No.

02:15:12.000 No.

02:15:12.000 They didn't recover anything.

02:15:13.000 They just left it there?

02:15:14.000 They left it there.

02:15:16.000 Was it because the extraction is too difficult?

02:15:18.000 That's what they said.

02:15:19.000 Isn't that possible?

02:15:21.000 I guess so.

02:15:22.000 I mean, if it's not traversable, if they can't get in there?

02:15:24.000 But they did get in there.

02:15:25.000 They did.

02:15:26.000 They did.

02:15:27.000 They said they got in there, they saw bodies, but it was too dangerous to remove any, and they left them all on the side of the mountain.

02:15:34.000 So that's the reason that Arnold was there.

02:15:37.000 A lot of people don't know that.

02:15:39.000 Okay.

02:15:40.000 And.

02:15:41.000 When he saw those things fly by him at an extraordinary pace, he said, Hey, that's nothing that no planes we have.

02:15:49.000 And there were multiple ones he saw go by.

02:15:51.000 Right.

02:15:52.000 Now, since that time, Mount Baker and Mount Rainier have had dozens of UFO sightings.

02:16:00.000 And if you look at the dispersion of people who have disappeared on Rainier, most of them aren't way up here on the mountain.

02:16:08.000 They're down here at the bottom.

02:16:10.000 And.

02:16:14.000 When we put that in the movie, people couldn't believe how many people there are missing.

02:16:18.000 How many people?

02:16:19.000 There's probably at least 15 that have never been found, and it makes no sense.

02:16:26.000 And are they all hikers or what?

02:16:29.000 Hikers, photographers.

02:16:31.000 One kid worked for Alaska Airlines, went into the woods like every week because he lived near Rainier.

02:16:39.000 And on his days off, he took pictures of the mountain and panorama shots.

02:16:45.000 And some of his photos actually made it into the National Park headquarters.

02:16:48.000 They're that good.

02:16:50.000 He went up to take pictures one day.

02:16:52.000 He has a tripod, real nice camera.

02:16:54.000 He disappears.

02:16:55.000 They search for him for 10 days, bringing canines, everything.

02:16:59.000 They can't find anything of him.

02:17:01.000 Now, this is one of those cases where, let's say there was bear predation.

02:17:05.000 Yeah, there may be nothing left of him, but the tripod will be there forever.

02:17:09.000 The camera is there forever, his boots, his belt.

02:17:13.000 But they never found anything.

02:17:16.000 There was a medical doctor that disappeared just recently within the last couple years, hiking in that same area, a giant loop backpacking.

02:17:28.000 I think he was 34 years old.

02:17:30.000 Absolute genius guy.

02:17:31.000 Came from UC Berkeley, just recently moved up to Seattle, took a new job, went on a backpacking loop there.

02:17:38.000 He disappeared.

02:17:39.000 Never found nothing.

02:17:41.000 But it's repeatedly this big search, find nothing, no tracks.

02:17:48.000 No scent trail, no evidence of them being there.

02:17:51.000 In the same area where there's dozens of sightings?

02:17:53.000 Yes.

02:17:55.000 Boy, if you wanted to get abducted, that's the place to go.

02:17:58.000 If you really want to find out what's going on, have you ever thought about it?

02:18:04.000 Have you ever seen anything yourself?

02:18:06.000 As far as what?

02:18:07.000 As far as something that looks like it's from another planet.

02:18:10.000 Oh, we've seen orbs and UFOs many times.

02:18:14.000 Many times?

02:18:14.000 Yes.

02:18:15.000 Have you taken photos of them or anything?

02:18:18.000 We have some, yeah.

02:18:19.000 You got good ones?

02:18:21.000 There's a lot of really good orb photos out there.

02:18:24.000 Right.

02:18:25.000 And so that's not unusual.

02:18:29.000 I think the.

02:18:32.000 After what I've seen, after I've made five documentaries now, I've seen 12 and 14 and 15 year olds do things with special effects that if you watched it on film, you wouldn't know if it was real or not.

02:18:45.000 Well, certainly today.

02:18:47.000 Yeah.

02:18:47.000 Today, I mean, all bets are off.

02:18:49.000 You really can't tell what's real and what's not real.

02:18:51.000 That's why somebody who sends me a Bigfoot photo or.

02:18:55.000 UFO, I don't even watch it because you can't tell what's real anymore.

02:18:59.000 Right.

02:19:01.000 You'd have to go all the way back for me to film, actual film, and then I'll look at it.

02:19:08.000 Well, David, thank you very much for being here.

02:19:11.000 It's certainly a very interesting subject.

02:19:14.000 I can't imagine what your brain is like having studied this for all these many years.

02:19:19.000 You've got a very weird version of the world that we live in because you've been inundated by this stuff for decades.

02:19:27.000 But I think there's something there.

02:19:29.000 I don't know what it is.

02:19:30.000 Do you?

02:19:30.000 I'll have to wait for that for maybe round two, huh?

02:19:34.000 Okay, round two.

02:19:36.000 Well, thank you very much.

02:19:37.000 Thanks, Jules.

02:19:38.000 Tell everybody where they can find your work, where they can watch your documentaries.

02:19:42.000 My two most recent movies, Missing 411, National Parks, Washington State, is on Amazon.

02:19:49.000 American Sasquatch, Man, Myth, or Monster, is on Amazon.

02:19:53.000 And then you can watch my three movies for free on 2B Missing 411, that's the number one.

02:19:59.000 Missing 411, The Hunted.

02:20:01.000 And Missing 411, the UFO Connection.

02:20:03.000 And my website is missing411.com and it has all my books.

02:20:07.000 All right.

02:20:08.000 Thank you very much.

02:20:09.000 Thank you, Jill.

02:20:10.000 My pleasure.

02:20:10.000 All right.

02:20:10.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - May 20, 2026

Joe Rogan Experience #2502 - David Paulides

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript