The Joe Rogan Experience - May 21, 2026


Joe Rogan Experience #2503 - Eric Weinstein


Episode Stats


Length

2 hours and 53 minutes

Words per minute

154.54

Word count

26,781

Sentence count

2,545

Harmful content

Misogyny

49

sentences flagged

Toxicity

229

sentences flagged

Hate speech

129

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

It's Purim and it's time for another episode of the Joe Rogan Experience. This week, the boys are joined by their good friend Jeff to talk about the joys of drinking on Shabbat and the dark side of life.

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Joe Rogan Experience" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.
00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
00:00:12.000 I was like, there's only one way to do this.
00:00:15.000 I have to just not drink for a while.
00:00:17.000 So I took like eight months off, and then I had like a margarita at dinner once.
00:00:20.000 So I was like, ooh, I missed this.
00:00:21.000 And then I had a glass of wine here or there.
00:00:24.000 I was wondering how that was going to hold up.
00:00:25.000 Yeah.
00:00:27.000 But I know that you're not captured by it.
00:00:30.000 Neither am I.
00:00:30.000 No, no.
00:00:31.000 But our religious observance requires it.
00:00:34.000 You require abstinence or drinking?
00:00:36.000 No, we drink.
00:00:37.000 When do you have to drink?
00:00:39.000 Shabbat, any Friday.
00:00:41.000 How much do you drink on Shabbat?
00:00:43.000 I probably have two and a half glasses of wine.
00:00:45.000 Is there like a number that you're supposed to hit?
00:00:47.000 No, there was your annual cup.
00:00:48.000 What?
00:00:49.000 Well, that's Purim. 0.98
00:00:51.000 We should get into Purim.
00:00:52.000 We're getting into it.
00:00:53.000 Do we need glasses?
00:00:54.000 You want to have a drink?
00:00:56.000 Usually, you and I tend to go a while, so we usually do that at the end.
00:01:00.000 Well, let's get some ice and some glass.
00:01:02.000 Are we rolling already?
00:01:03.000 I've been rolling.
00:01:04.000 Okay.
00:01:05.000 Tell Jeff to get us some ice and some glasses and a bottle of Buffalo Trace.
00:01:10.000 Do you want to wait until I get back to start?
00:01:13.000 Because we either haven't started or we started.
00:01:15.000 We started. 1.00
00:01:16.000 Fuck it. 1.00
00:01:17.000 We started. 1.00
00:01:18.000 Let's just roll.
00:01:19.000 We'll get Jeff to do it.
00:01:21.000 What's that?
00:01:23.000 Are we rolling still? 0.99
00:01:24.000 Are we doing headphones shit? 0.99
00:01:25.000 We can. 0.99
00:01:26.000 No headphones?
00:01:26.000 Headphones?
00:01:27.000 I don't give a fuck. 1.00
00:01:28.000 We mix it up. 0.99
00:01:30.000 Okay.
00:01:31.000 Are you more comfortable?
00:01:31.000 You got a nice head of hair.
00:01:32.000 See, for me, it doesn't matter.
00:01:32.000 What?
00:01:34.000 I feel bad when people work on their hair real good, especially ladies. 1.00
00:01:37.000 And they get it all nice, and then they have to fucking smoosh it with this thing. 0.94
00:01:40.000 Okay, if you ever have that kind of consideration for me, I'm going to be very disappointed. 0.98
00:01:44.000 I thought we were closer.
00:01:46.000 Some people worry about that.
00:01:47.000 No, I worry about the gray.
00:01:50.000 That you have gray in your hair?
00:01:51.000 Yeah, look at it. 0.99
00:01:53.000 Well, you're like pretty dark for your age. 1.00
00:01:56.000 How old are you now? 0.99
00:01:56.000 60. 0.99
00:01:57.000 Yeah, you have fucking dark ass hair for your age. 1.00
00:02:01.000 If I had hair and it grew out, like my side hair. 1.00
00:02:03.000 It's mostly gray now.
00:02:05.000 Yeah?
00:02:06.000 Yeah.
00:02:07.000 Should I get some gray hair that I'm going to eyebrows a little bit?
00:02:09.000 I should have thought ahead like you did.
00:02:09.000 What's up?
00:02:11.000 What?
00:02:12.000 Yeah, shaved it when everyone knew it wasn't gray.
00:02:12.000 Shaved it?
00:02:14.000 And then it's just normal.
00:02:15.000 Because it's very clear if I shave it now.
00:02:17.000 I think you can avoid gray hair with proper supplementation.
00:02:21.000 At least that is the thought today.
00:02:25.000 Okay.
00:02:25.000 With enough zinc and copper.
00:02:28.000 And that somehow or another that's involved in the diet.
00:02:32.000 I don't know. 1.00
00:02:33.000 I'm talking out of my ass here. 0.99
00:02:34.000 I don't know that much about what causes your hair to go gray. 0.99
00:02:38.000 This is Austin Tepp.
00:02:40.000 This is Buffalo Trace.
00:02:42.000 Buffalo Trace.
00:02:42.000 Older than America.
00:02:43.000 Yeah. 0.97
00:02:43.000 Really? 0.97
00:02:44.000 This is a distillery from 1773, I believe they started.
00:02:50.000 Wow.
00:02:51.000 About them apples, huh?
00:02:52.000 It's like that Chinese sounding beer, Yunling or something.
00:02:55.000 Cheers, my friend.
00:02:57.000 Buffalo Trace is like.
00:02:59.000 Is their beard really old?
00:03:02.000 Beer really old?
00:03:04.000 Do they have an old beer?
00:03:06.000 Yunling. 1.00
00:03:08.000 Is it old as fuck? 1.00
00:03:09.000 Jamie knows everything. 1.00
00:03:10.000 He knows a lot.
00:03:11.000 1829.
00:03:11.000 You know, people.
00:03:13.000 You see?
00:03:14.000 Oh, yeah.
00:03:15.000 People say, I have this AI.
00:03:17.000 I'm using ChatGPT.
00:03:17.000 I'm using Claude.
00:03:20.000 I use Jamie.
00:03:20.000 Jamie, right?
00:03:21.000 Yeah.
00:03:22.000 For sure.
00:03:22.000 Oh, he's way better than AI.
00:03:23.000 He's way better than AI because he's kind of psychic.
00:03:26.000 You're a little psychic, right?
00:03:27.000 A little bit.
00:03:28.000 Well, I mean, I've listened to you talk a lot.
00:03:30.000 My theory is that he also looks ahead.
00:03:33.000 He knows sort of where you're likely to head, so he's got it ready.
00:03:36.000 Oh, 100%. 1.00
00:03:36.000 He knows how my goofy fucking brain works. 1.00
00:03:39.000 Yeah, for sure. 0.99
00:03:41.000 Good to see you, my brother.
00:03:42.000 Good to see you.
00:03:43.000 Hello, Joe.
00:03:44.000 How was your.
00:03:47.000 What was it exactly?
00:03:48.000 How would you describe it?
00:03:49.000 A speech?
00:03:50.000 A presentation?
00:03:51.000 A talk on dark energy to the Karch group at the U Texas Austin Physics Department.
00:03:59.000 This is one I wanted to ask you about.
00:04:00.000 Michio Kaku has been saying that he believes that dark energy is possibly something leaking in from another dimension.
00:04:06.000 Is that?
00:04:07.000 Look at that face.
00:04:07.000 Look at that face.
00:04:13.000 He gave a little side eye.
00:04:13.000 Go on.
00:04:15.000 Well, let's see what he says.
00:04:16.000 James, see if you can find that, please.
00:04:19.000 I think he said it was gravity leaking in from different colonies and put them together as a kid just to see what happens.
00:04:26.000 Did I?
00:04:27.000 No, I never did that.
00:04:28.000 I did that.
00:04:29.000 Oh, why?
00:04:29.000 Just watch them fight?
00:04:30.000 Oh, you fucking psycho. 1.00
00:04:30.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00
00:04:31.000 Yeah, a little bit.
00:04:32.000 No, I never did any of that.
00:04:34.000 You were saying about Michio.
00:04:35.000 Yeah, I didn't even read it.
00:04:38.000 I just saw it and went, oh, Jesus, I got to talk to Eric about this.
00:04:43.000 Michio suggests dark matter isn't matter at all.
00:04:46.000 It's gravity leaking in from a parallel dimension.
00:04:50.000 And this guy won't do mushrooms.
00:04:51.000 Isn't that wild?
00:04:54.000 What do you think about that?
00:04:56.000 You remember when I was here and I said, get Michio Kaku in here with me?
00:05:01.000 Yeah.
00:05:02.000 What is it about?
00:05:03.000 Well, clearly he's a brilliant guy.
00:05:05.000 He is and was a brilliant guy.
00:05:08.000 He's decided to do something else.
00:05:11.000 And to be entirely honest, I don't love going after other named people.
00:05:16.000 In general, my shtick is that I go hard after institutions.
00:05:20.000 I'm a huge institutional supporter and their worst nightmare in the current world.
00:05:26.000 Individuals, I don't like beefing with.
00:05:28.000 I watch all of the energy, the beauty of life lost to beefing with people.
00:05:33.000 Micha Kak is doing a tremendous amount of damage to theoretical physics.
00:05:37.000 How so?
00:05:39.000 Um.
00:05:43.000 Theoretical physics is, in my estimation, the most beautiful, most powerful, most economically potent thing you can do with your life.
00:05:52.000 And we are the best.
00:05:54.000 The United States is, in my opinion, the greatest nation in the history of the earth for theoretical physics because we are cowboys, we are irreverent, we are the people who invented the atomic and hydrogen bombs, the semiconductor.
00:06:12.000 This is what we do, and we've lost the ability to.
00:06:17.000 To do it at a level that I cannot believe happened during my watch, my lifetime. 0.97
00:06:23.000 So, from 1984 to the present, those 42 years have been the greatest intellectual implosion, I think, that I know of, where people just got dumber.
00:06:36.000 And what do you think is the cause of that? 0.87
00:06:38.000 I'm going to describe this humidity.
00:06:40.000 Quantum gravity.
00:06:41.000 Quantum gravity did?
00:06:43.000 Yep.
00:06:45.000 In 1984, there was a result.
00:06:48.000 And it's called the Green Schwartz anomaly cancellation.
00:06:52.000 And the guy that I've talked to you about before in UFO context, the guy who is Lewis Witten's son, Lewis Witten, happy birthday, turned 105, was the anti gravity guy from the 50s.
00:07:05.000 His son, Edward Witten, decided that the 1984 Green Schwartz anomaly cancellation meant that we should all, all the smartest people, should pile into one narrow subspecialty and that that was the future.
00:07:20.000 And because he was so much smarter than all of us, people listened, and I didn't.
00:07:26.000 Michio Kaku is part of his wave.
00:07:29.000 Almost all of the people that you've traditionally had on in physics have some connection to this.
00:07:35.000 So you've had on, I don't know, probably Sean Carroll, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Brian Greene.
00:07:46.000 Nobody wanted to say what was happening, which is that we were being unraveled and destroyed.
00:07:51.000 Our ability.
00:07:52.000 To be the world's greatest theoretical physicist was being eroded year by year for 42 years.
00:07:58.000 And specifically, the pursuit of string theory?
00:08:01.000 Peter Van Doren, Jr.
00:08:02.000 It's not string theory itself that's the problem.
00:08:05.000 String theory is harmless.
00:08:06.000 It's just a bunch of equations, a bunch of ideas, and it's beautiful mathematics in many places.
00:08:10.000 So that's not an issue.
00:08:14.000 The issue is the exclusion of everything else.
00:08:18.000 This goes into the name Togek.
00:08:21.000 Or the only game in town, T O G I T. 1.00
00:08:24.000 It's this idea that only we, the enlightened, can do theoretical physics and the rest of you are just doing finger exercises and you're too stupid to know it. 0.99
00:08:36.000 So, specifically, what's isolationist about string theory? 0.98
00:08:43.000 What is it about this one particular theory that all this thought has been pushed into that?
00:08:48.000 The claim is that there's this thing called UV complete physics.
00:08:56.000 There's no way that we can have a discussion about that directly.
00:09:00.000 If I could ask Jamie, could I impose upon you to call up on YouTube Wheel of Fortune and then use, I've got a good feeling about this.
00:09:11.000 I can explain it to you.
00:09:13.000 Wheel of Fortune, I've got a good feeling about this?
00:09:15.000 I've got a good feeling about this.
00:09:16.000 Okay.
00:09:17.000 Is that an episode of Wheel of Fortune?
00:09:18.000 It'll be over briefly.
00:09:19.000 It's very, very quick.
00:09:21.000 It's about a minute and a half or something.
00:09:22.000 The key point is it's a tight analogy for the problem faced in physics that anyone can understand.
00:09:29.000 So I don't, people think I try to make things complicated.
00:09:32.000 I really try to make them understandable.
00:09:33.000 But what I do is I talk about things.
00:09:35.000 I don't know that you've ever had anyone talk about UV completeness on the Joe Rogan.
00:09:40.000 I don't believe so.
00:09:41.000 Yeah.
00:09:41.000 Yeah.
00:09:42.000 Okay, put your headphones on.
00:09:43.000 Well, you're not going to be able to hear it unless you have headphones on.
00:09:43.000 Yeah.
00:09:47.000 I know it like the back of my hand.
00:09:49.000 Wheel of Fortune.
00:09:52.000 We need a phrase this time.
00:09:55.000 That's the category for this puzzle.
00:09:56.000 And it is a Pies puzzling.
00:09:58.000 Go ahead, Rick.
00:10:02.000 Gladly.
00:10:12.000 And what do we get here?
00:10:12.000 500.
00:10:13.000 R!
00:10:15.000 Boy, you'd think there'd be an R in there somewhere, wouldn't you?
00:10:17.000 Oh, right, sir.
00:10:18.000 Who called it? 0.51
00:10:18.000 Caitlin. 0.51
00:10:28.000 One L. What's that?
00:10:34.000 Can I solve?
00:10:37.000 Okay.
00:10:37.000 It is a prize puzzle.
00:10:38.000 Yeah.
00:10:39.000 I've got a good feeling about this.
00:10:43.000 That's right.
00:10:44.000 That's insane. 1.00
00:10:48.000 That lady's a wizard. 1.00
00:10:49.000 That lady is what I want to do with my life. 1.00
00:10:53.000 That is what great physics looks like. 1.00
00:10:55.000 It's totally irresponsible.
00:10:58.000 And, you know, Pat Sajak is like trying to.
00:11:00.000 Ask her, like, how'd you do that?
00:11:03.000 And she says, Well, I had a good feeling about this.
00:11:05.000 You know, and the funny part about it is you can figure it out.
00:11:08.000 The if you if you go back, can Jamie, can you show the board right there?
00:11:13.000 Yeah.
00:11:14.000 So clearly, that apostrophe is a huge clue, right?
00:11:18.000 So the idea is that if you read that property, is it I'll?
00:11:22.000 Is it I've?
00:11:23.000 Right. 0.98
00:11:24.000 And then there's no R.
00:11:27.000 So think about all of those blank squares as orders of magnitude that you are away from the energies that would.
00:11:35.000 Allow you to do experiments that would explain physics.
00:11:38.000 And think about the apostrophe, the L, and that pattern, as well as the fact that there's no R, as the standard model of physics.
00:11:47.000 So, right now, what you have is a debate about whether or not we should buy more and more letters with higher and higher energy, or should we build bigger accelerators and spend more treasure trying to collide particles, or should we just Caitlin our way out of this?
00:12:02.000 So, Caitlin Burke is my model of what I think we're supposed to be doing.
00:12:07.000 So an exceptional mind with an ability to see or propose things that other people aren't seeing.
00:12:14.000 I guarantee you that if we studied this, if we spent a month with the world's smartest people on this puzzle, we'd learn that there are certain things that were present, that the frequency of certain – the fact that there's a single letter there that almost certainly is I or A.
00:12:31.000 She took a tiny number of clues.
00:12:33.000 But here's the really important thing.
00:12:36.000 Jamie, can we show the filled in puzzle?
00:12:39.000 So, you'll notice that the word this could be changed to that because the only letter that's been excluded is an R.
00:12:52.000 So, that is what the issue of unique UV completion is.
00:12:58.000 In other words, a unique UV completion would say there's only one phrase that fits there.
00:13:04.000 She guessed, she couldn't have known it is, I've got a good feeling about that or I've got a nice feeling about this or that.
00:13:12.000 So, it's actually not.
00:13:13.000 Or I'll get a good feeling about this.
00:13:18.000 But all of those were much less probable because they're just not as natural.
00:13:24.000 So, this is a combination of science, guesswork, and raw courage.
00:13:30.000 Like the most marvelous thing about that exchange is she says, Can I solve?
00:13:35.000 And there's like, he's not even sure he's hearing her properly.
00:13:39.000 And then finally, he says, Okay, that's gatekeeping.
00:13:42.000 Can I put this article on the archive?
00:13:45.000 Can I give a seminar in your department?
00:13:47.000 I want to solve the puzzle.
00:13:49.000 And a lot of what we're arguing about is that the string theorists are the only ones who have the right to try to solve the puzzle at the moment.
00:13:59.000 So imagine that somehow there's a rule that only Rick, poor Rick who guesses that there's an R, imagine that he's the only one allowed to solve the puzzle.
00:14:08.000 And when she asks, May I solve the puzzle?
00:14:10.000 No, no, no, you can't.
00:14:12.000 That's pseudoscience. 1.00
00:14:13.000 You're a charlatan. 0.99
00:14:14.000 That is crank. 0.99
00:14:19.000 Physics.
00:14:19.000 Physics.
00:14:21.000 So that's what the problem that we're facing is that we've got one group that got control of the gatekeeping, who is very good at mathematics, extremely bad at physics.
00:14:35.000 And they've redefined what physics is and what good science is, where they're the only ones who are guessing the puzzle.
00:14:40.000 They can't guess the puzzle.
00:14:43.000 And everyone else is like, here's a crazy story from yesterday.
00:14:48.000 I wasn't allowed to say that I gave a talk in the physics department, even though.
00:14:52.000 Any normal person would say that that happened.
00:14:55.000 And I wasn't allowed to do that when I visited a physics institution in Canada.
00:15:00.000 I wasn't allowed to say that I was visiting for a week, nor was I allowed to say that I gave a seminar that lasted nine hours.
00:15:07.000 But you just did?
00:15:08.000 Yeah.
00:15:09.000 Are you a lawbreaker?
00:15:10.000 I'm breaking the rules now because now I've had it.
00:15:15.000 I agreed to not do this.
00:15:17.000 And with these missing scientists, I've changed my mind.
00:15:23.000 I'm not going to deal with these people anymore.
00:15:25.000 And whatever is going on with science and the suppression of different ideas is terrifying.
00:15:35.000 Right now, we have a situation.
00:15:37.000 I gave a talk at the University of Chicago.
00:15:39.000 There's no record of it.
00:15:40.000 Who's asking you to do these talks and who's asking you to not give a record?
00:15:45.000 record.
00:15:46.000 You don't have to name names.
00:15:47.000 Particular people.
00:15:47.000 Yeah.
00:15:48.000 In general, the funny part is that the people who ask me to give talks in the physics departments are the most courageous person in each department.
00:15:56.000 So, the problem is that the person that you end up feeling resentful towards, how dare you tell me that I can't give this talk in this department officially, is the person who's arranging for your stay and is arranging for the room.
00:16:12.000 And they are under the most pressure from the institution.
00:16:15.000 So, the institution is forcing them to say, you're allowed to give the talk, but you're not allowed to talk about it on social media, you're not allowed to advertise that you're doing it, you're not allowed to say that you're doing it.
00:16:29.000 In the case of UTX's physics department, I was allowed to say I'm speaking in the Karch group seminar.
00:16:35.000 It's like a condom to make sure that the physics department doesn't get pregnant. 0.89
00:16:39.000 What isn't that really bizarre because University of Austin, Texas was supposed to be a university that fixed all the bullshit that was wrong with other universities. 0.98
00:16:49.000 Much more insane than that. 0.96
00:16:51.000 This was the home of Steven Weinberg who moved from Harvard to Texas because the money, the oil money was used to buy brains.
00:16:58.000 Basically, Texas raided Harvard for people like John Tate in the math department, Steven Weinberg, who was probably the greatest living theorist.
00:17:07.000 And that was the continuation of the Bryce DeWitt group from North Carolina Chapel Hill that was set up to do anti gravity by Agnew Baineson.
00:17:18.000 So you're right next to an amazing physics department with a crazy history that, in fact, touched anti gravity.
00:17:28.000 This is one of the Tiny number of places that has a real legacy in that department.
00:17:35.000 And I was speaking there on gravity, on dark energy.
00:17:39.000 And look, I've been lying my whole life about my relationship with the physics world because of this pressure.
00:17:50.000 They can't listen to me if I say I'm a physicist.
00:17:53.000 So I say I'm an entertainer.
00:17:54.000 Yeah.
00:17:55.000 But people say, well, why would you do that?
00:17:59.000 Why would you say that you're an entertainer when you obviously are conversant in all this stuff?
00:18:03.000 And the answer is, I don't want to die.
00:18:05.000 I don't want to lose my ability to enter a physics department.
00:18:09.000 So I take on this completely wrong persona.
00:18:11.000 And I have the emails.
00:18:13.000 I have the emails.
00:18:14.000 You're not giving a talk.
00:18:16.000 You're having conversations in room 5308.
00:18:20.000 It literally says you're not giving a talk?
00:18:21.000 I could read what it is that they write to me.
00:18:24.000 But what is the benefit of this formal declaration or this formal designation of the way you're talking?
00:18:31.000 So when I was at a physics institute in Canada, I was told, we're worried that you're going to use it to legitimize.
00:18:39.000 It's like, I'm going to do that.
00:18:43.000 Of course I'm going to. 1.00
00:18:44.000 I have a PhD from Harvard, you stupid. 1.00
00:18:46.000 I mean, like, you guys imagine I'm a podcast guest? 0.99
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00:19:22.000 Right.
00:19:23.000 Just a regular dude with some wacky ideas.
00:19:26.000 Right.
00:19:26.000 And so the idea is I have to play that character as opposed to I have legitimizing yourself is a very bizarre phrase.
00:19:34.000 Tell me about that.
00:19:35.000 Because it's assuming that you're not legitimate.
00:19:37.000 Do you know what I'm saying?
00:19:39.000 I don't think you're understanding this.
00:19:42.000 No, I am understanding it.
00:19:43.000 But from their perspective, saying that you're going to use it to legitimize yourself and your ideas is a really crazy way to phrase it.
00:19:51.000 Because, like, they're acting from the assumption that you're not legitimate.
00:19:54.000 So that's.
00:19:56.000 You remember when, like, I think Reagan thought.
00:19:59.000 I forget who it was.
00:20:00.000 Reagan thought there were recallable missiles.
00:20:01.000 Well, you could turn them around?
00:20:03.000 Right.
00:20:03.000 Sorry, we changed my mind.
00:20:05.000 Like a base jumper is also a suicide jumper.
00:20:05.000 So.
00:20:08.000 On second thought.
00:20:12.000 Halfway through. 1.00
00:20:13.000 Halfway in, he's like, ah, fuck this. 1.00
00:20:15.000 No, I like that. 1.00
00:20:16.000 Yeah, a lot of these people who survived jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge, they learn, like, I love life.
00:20:20.000 Yes.
00:20:20.000 Yes.
00:20:21.000 Most of them.
00:20:22.000 Yeah.
00:20:22.000 They're reborn.
00:20:23.000 So what I would say is.
00:20:25.000 The problem is that I am.
00:20:28.000 This is not a boast.
00:20:31.000 As you know, I don't usually put my credential first.
00:20:34.000 I'm probably the most blue chip defector from the institutions, mutineer, let's call it that. 1.00
00:20:43.000 I have essentially perfect credentials, and that's the problem.
00:20:50.000 So it's not a question of you're going to legitimize yourself.
00:20:54.000 I already legitimized myself by.
00:20:56.000 Harvard PhD, MIT postdoc, NSF postdoctoral fellow, ONR top in the country, Sloan Foundation grantee.
00:21:03.000 I've been in math, physics, economics departments.
00:21:06.000 I'm so bulletproof.
00:21:07.000 So that's the problem.
00:21:09.000 That's the problem. 1.00
00:21:10.000 It's not that you're a kook. 1.00
00:21:12.000 That's what I was trying to say. 1.00
00:21:13.000 You didn't understand.
00:21:13.000 No, I do understand.
00:21:14.000 I just don't understand why they want to do that to you.
00:21:18.000 That's what's bizarre.
00:21:18.000 I am the greatest danger to the narrative.
00:21:22.000 I'm the most followed mathematician.
00:21:24.000 In the United States, maybe the world, Hanafri, maybe above it. 0.55
00:21:30.000 The world, Hannah Frye may be above it. 0.84
00:21:34.000 That danger to the narrative is the problem.
00:21:37.000 Well, specifically for people who don't know what we're talking about, what is, to make this a stand-alone show, the people that are not aware of your work, what is it about you and your ideas that they are so hesitant to platform or legitimize or why you're such a danger?
00:21:55.000 Okay, so in 2001...
00:21:57.000 We were a great danger to the world.
00:22:00.000 I have one of the first published papers on the danger of the pricing of illiquid securities.
00:22:04.000 I went on Chris Williamson's show and he asked me who's going to win, Biden or Trump.
00:22:10.000 Going to win Biden or Trump.
00:22:13.000 I said, You don't even know whether Biden's going to make it to November.
00:22:15.000 I said that the people, representatives of the Democrat Party, reached out to me and said, Stop talking about Biden's dementia.
00:22:22.000 You need your affirmation that you're seeing something real.
00:22:25.000 We've put in three people as a committee to replace the president.
00:22:29.000 And I said, I'm supposed to feel good about that.
00:22:32.000 Well, they told you they put in three people.
00:22:37.000 They put in a committee of three people. 0.99
00:22:39.000 And if you knew who those people were, you'd be pleased as punch, so shut up. 0.98
00:22:42.000 That's what they said to you? 0.99
00:22:44.000 Yeah. 1.00
00:22:45.000 You would be really happy, so shut up. 1.00
00:22:45.000 Correct. 1.00
00:22:48.000 Yeah.
00:22:48.000 They didn't even tell you who the people were?
00:22:49.000 I think that they did, and I've conveniently forgot them.
00:22:53.000 One of them might have been the chief of staff.
00:22:54.000 Wow.
00:22:55.000 So it's like But I say this, right?
00:23:00.000 And I'm not trying to I mean, I keep lots of secrets that people ask me to keep that I should keep, things having to do with national security, for example. 0.94
00:23:11.000 But these people are incompetent.
00:23:13.000 They're a danger to us. 0.65
00:23:16.000 Right now, the string theory narrative is a complete danger.
00:23:19.000 It's not string theory that's the problem.
00:23:21.000 It's the only game in town.
00:23:23.000 town and so you know there was a look people are willing to spend their entire credibility just to make me go away could you briefly just describe like what what is the pro so there's not a problem with string theory or string theory not complete or a string theory read it has it reaped
00:23:48.000 Mathematically, it's reaped results, and string theorists have occasionally done really great work in a subject called quantum field theory.
00:23:57.000 But quantum field theory isn't about the quantum field theory of the world.
00:24:01.000 Quantum field theory is like calculus, it's something that's very useful, and it grew up in physics.
00:24:08.000 But we've now found out that quantum field theory has to do with pure problems in mathematics that have nothing to do with physics.
00:24:14.000 And what they haven't done is they haven't dealt with the physical world.
00:24:19.000 So if you take physics, why do we care about physics so much more than really?
00:24:23.000 Almost any other aspect of the sciences other than biology.
00:24:26.000 I had to give a talk at New York Deep Tech Week, shout out to those guys.
00:24:33.000 I put it on the slide as three things there's boom, vroom, and zoom.
00:24:39.000 Easy to remember.
00:24:40.000 Boom is weapons, physics will create weapons, you'll dwarf everything else, with the possible exception of biologicals.
00:24:50.000 Zoom, vroom is energy.
00:24:55.000 And the story of energy is basically the story of prosperity and control.
00:24:59.000 If you look at wealth and the amount of fossil fuels burned, it's more or less like a one to one correlation as to which nations are rich and poor per capita.
00:25:08.000 And Zoom is everything else.
00:25:11.000 It's propulsion, it's computation, it's communication.
00:25:16.000 And those things, if you take them together, more or less define the economy and the world order.
00:25:24.000 Physics is the center of.
00:25:27.000 What makes us modern humans.
00:25:32.000 And it became too dangerous in the 1950s.
00:25:36.000 Even the 40s, you know, atomic weapons are extremely bad, but they're not hydrogen bombs.
00:25:43.000 Somehow in November of 52, everything changed.
00:25:47.000 And we became too dangerous.
00:25:52.000 The community of physicists is the most powerful group of people made into completely.
00:25:58.000 Ineffectual humans.
00:26:00.000 And do you think this is by design?
00:26:03.000 And what was the purpose of it?
00:26:03.000 Partially.
00:26:06.000 of it, but by saying that physicists became too dangerous, the ideas became too dangerous, is the idea that the weapons would become so immense and powerful that they had to do something to stop and curb that?
00:26:18.000 Well, we didn't know how to control it, right?
00:26:20.000 So in other words, for example, in 1940, we set up something called the Reference Committee, which I'm sure your listeners have never heard of.
00:26:29.000 The Reference Committee lived inside of the National Resource Council.
00:26:32.000 Now, why was it important?
00:26:34.000 Because chain reaction physics was so hot.
00:26:38.000 Once the neutron was found, right?
00:26:40.000 So think about neutrons as bullets.
00:26:42.000 They can go right into the middle of an atom because they're not positively charged, so they're not going to be repelled by the nucleus.
00:26:49.000 And they can bust apart atoms that are barely being held together.
00:26:53.000 And that's why you get bullets begetting bullets begetting bullets, and that's what a chain reaction is.
00:26:59.000 The people who were doing that in the 30s suddenly found that when they mailed off a paper to a journal, if they weren't part of the secret group in Los Alamos, Their paper got held up and sent back for revisions.
00:27:15.000 And there was no money in it.
00:27:17.000 We secretly set up this thing to shunt real research into the National Resource Council. 0.83
00:27:23.000 I think this was organized by a guy named Bright, B R E I T.
00:27:29.000 And that was the beginning of this whole peer review control mechanism.
00:27:34.000 And this control, do you think is this ego based that the people who are the gatekeepers want to remain in the position of?
00:27:41.000 We all want to survive, Joe.
00:27:42.000 I mean, this is a real problem.
00:27:44.000 So, you and I can hate on the institutions all we want from the safety of the JRE. 0.95
00:27:49.000 But what are you going to do when it becomes really, really easy for people to commit mass murder? 0.73
00:27:59.000 If you think about all the really bad mass, like the Vegas shooting that never really got sorted out, it's very hard to kill large numbers of people using things like bullets.
00:28:09.000 If you want to really kill a large number of people, you're going to go to biologicals and you're going to go to nuclear.
00:28:17.000 And what happens when that becomes easy?
00:28:19.000 Like maybe it's a lot easier to build these weapons than the way we currently do it.
00:28:23.000 Right now, we're bottlenecked on things like centrifuges.
00:28:28.000 And by the way, who knows what the next innovation in physics is going to bring?
00:28:32.000 So I always say this thing about if you're not tracking everybody at my level, what are you doing as an intelligence service?
00:28:38.000 Is this part of your concern about the missing scientists?
00:28:41.000 Yeah, yeah, of course.
00:28:42.000 Yeah.
00:28:42.000 So the missing scientists narrative.
00:28:44.000 For people that aren't aware of it, I think they're up to 15 now, and a lot of people say that some of these connections are baseless and that some of them it's just not a good idea.
00:28:52.000 We're not really up to 15.
00:28:53.000 No.
00:28:53.000 Okay.
00:28:54.000 So what do you think we're actually up to?
00:28:55.000 I don't know.
00:28:56.000 Yeah, probably five or six.
00:28:59.000 But I saw someone online did a breakdown of it, and essentially they were saying that the odds of this being a coincidence are off the track.
00:29:06.000 That the people that are all involved in very specific types of technological research.
00:29:13.000 Different things that are top secret that all of these people either wind up missing.
00:29:19.000 There's a lot of murder in math and physics, first of all.
00:29:22.000 People don't really appreciate that.
00:29:24.000 You know, the Unabomber was a famous PhD mathematician.
00:29:27.000 He's a big story, though.
00:29:30.000 There's a lot of stuff.
00:29:31.000 Yeah, sure.
00:29:32.000 There was a guy named Cantor who broke into David Rittenhouse Laboratories in the University of Pennsylvania, where I was an undergraduate, and shot up a seminar.
00:29:41.000 There was.
00:29:44.000 You know, this situation in Iowa where a relative of mine got a seat in the physics department because somebody was killed by one of the graduate students.
00:29:55.000 I think it became a movie like Dark Matter.
00:29:57.000 So there's an incredible amount of murder.
00:30:00.000 Murder, the ball peen hammer killing of, was it Carl DeLue by Streleski at Stanford.
00:30:11.000 So, first of all, there's just a lot of death because mathematicians and physicists are somewhat close to unhinged.
00:30:19.000 And it's a really nasty, there's a lot of nasty culture, and sometimes it becomes violent.
00:30:23.000 Why do you think they're close to unhinged?
00:30:28.000 You spend that much time in your head.
00:30:31.000 I'm amazed that I'm as well grounded as I am.
00:30:34.000 No, seriously, you're just way out in the stratosphere.
00:30:38.000 I completely forget who I am, where I am, that I'm even a human being.
00:30:42.000 When you're using your body as an instrument, as you do in combat sports and training, you become a different thing.
00:30:51.000 You know that archery thing where you have to twist your arm?
00:30:55.000 A lot of people don't know that they can do that initially.
00:30:57.000 Just a small thing like that.
00:30:59.000 What are you talking about, archery thing that you twist your arm?
00:31:02.000 If you have an old style bow.
00:31:05.000 You often get burned by the.
00:31:07.000 Oh, that you have to twist your arm like that so you don't.
00:31:10.000 Yeah, so that you're not like this and get hit.
00:31:12.000 But you don't see what you're saying.
00:31:13.000 See, but then you twisted your wrist.
00:31:15.000 You keep your wrist straight.
00:31:17.000 I don't do that kind of archery.
00:31:18.000 That's why I'm confused.
00:31:19.000 Sorry.
00:31:19.000 Well, okay.
00:31:20.000 You do real.
00:31:21.000 This kind.
00:31:22.000 Yeah.
00:31:22.000 You keep your hand like that.
00:31:23.000 Okay.
00:31:25.000 That's a torque issue.
00:31:26.000 But like if you're a sniper, you know, there are all sorts of things about breathing and how you adjust your eyes.
00:31:32.000 Right.
00:31:33.000 You use your body as an instrument as a mathematician or a physicist.
00:31:36.000 One of the reasons that I feel.
00:31:37.000 I wish I were in better shape.
00:31:38.000 Is that in order for me to keep my mind in a particular way, I have to not think constantly about suppressing food.
00:31:47.000 You're doing a very unnatural thing.
00:31:51.000 And that unnatural thing, not everybody can handle it.
00:31:58.000 I see what you're saying.
00:31:58.000 Right.
00:31:59.000 And we snap.
00:32:00.000 And also, our minds are more perfect.
00:32:02.000 The messiness of the world and the perfection of our minds is at odds with each other.
00:32:08.000 And I love disappearing into math and physics because it's perfect.
00:32:12.000 But how does that lead to violence?
00:32:15.000 You're upset because people are lying.
00:32:17.000 You know, like the Unabomber had really interesting points.
00:32:22.000 He wasn't a dumb guy, he was really correctly. 0.99
00:32:25.000 You know, he has an amazing story called Ship of Fools. 0.98
00:32:29.000 I highly recommend anybody read it. 0.65
00:32:31.000 Just the way Charles Manson's Look at Your Game Girl is a great song. 0.54
00:32:36.000 Yeah.
00:32:37.000 It's a great song.
00:32:38.000 Okay.
00:32:39.000 Yeah.
00:32:43.000 We're not comfortable in part with coming back to the half measures and the special pleading that sort of characterizes normal life.
00:32:53.000 So, to get back to the missing scientist narrative, I don't think there are 15 missing scientists in this data set. 0.97
00:33:00.000 That's bullshit. 0.91
00:33:01.000 It seems like they're adding as many as they can. 1.00
00:33:03.000 They're trying to make connections that don't.
00:33:06.000 It's like the junkification of the UFO narrative.
00:33:06.000 Don't do that.
00:33:09.000 All of these narratives have a junk to them so that And I believe a lot of the junk is affixed to the narrative so that those who want to follow the institutional instruction to ignore the fact that this is happening can point to the crappiness.
00:33:25.000 Right.
00:33:25.000 And so that's the out.
00:33:28.000 And the really difficult thing that you do, and you do really well, is you try to piece together okay, what's bullshit, what's real? 0.95
00:33:36.000 There's a lot of real in the UFO story and there's a lot of nonsense. 0.89
00:33:39.000 There's a lot of real in the COVID story and a lot of nonsense.
00:33:43.000 The same thing is true for physics.
00:33:44.000 But physics is more dangerous.
00:33:46.000 And The fact that we're not tracking, like, I always wonder why they allow me to come on the JRE and say stuff.
00:33:57.000 And say stuff.
00:33:59.000 I know a lot of stuff that I don't know what it unlocks.
00:34:01.000 Well, it's easy to dismiss anybody who comes on here.
00:34:05.000 Sure, but China is smarter.
00:34:06.000 And by the way, the LLMs I mean, look, there are a lot of threads here.
00:34:10.000 To get back to the physics, and I'm giving a talk tomorrow at the U Texas Austin on supporting science, math, and physics and renewing our commitment to it. 0.97
00:34:24.000 I don't want to give the impression that it isn't dangerous or that the gatekeeping is stupid.
00:34:29.000 It's really important to do great gatekeeping around mathematics and physics. 0.78
00:34:34.000 It's cryptography, it's weaponry, it's propulsion, it's a sudden change in the world economy.
00:34:41.000 If you figured out how to do fusion, it would have immediate geopolitical results.
00:34:48.000 So, these specific scientists that are missing, whatever the number is, five, six that you think are legitimate, what specifically are they working on that's so dangerous?
00:35:00.000 Well, the fusion guy, obviously, is at MIT.
00:35:03.000 Is anybody who might, I don't know, fusion isn't my thing, plasma isn't my thing.
00:35:09.000 But that is unquestionably dangerous if you imagine how much depends on oil.
00:35:16.000 And is it a good assumption that if you have one incredibly brilliant person that's at the head of this thing and they make a breakthrough, if you kill that guy, the whole thing is in disarray because the people that are under him, whatever people he has working with him, aren't as fully immersed in it as he is?
00:35:36.000 That you can kind of like handicap a problem.
00:35:38.000 It's like, let's say if there's top five people.
00:35:42.000 It's an energy thing.
00:35:43.000 Let's say if it's an energy thing. 0.69
00:35:44.000 Let's say if someone has some new technology that's going to completely disrupt the fossil fuels industry.
00:35:48.000 Right. 1.00
00:35:49.000 And they go, listen, we can kill this fucking guy. 1.00
00:35:52.000 And it's still coming down the pipe, but we'll delay it by 10 years and make $15 trillion. 0.99
00:35:57.000 So this is a question about the far right tail, like the extreme right tail of human intelligence and ability.
00:36:07.000 And if you think about certain areas where you have a dominant figure, Rodney Mullen in skateboarding, for example, what percentage of all tricks derive from Rodney Mullen?
00:36:19.000 You couldn't have stopped skateboarding, but you could certainly have held it back by getting to Rodney Mullen, right?
00:36:25.000 When it comes to guitar, the amount of impact that Jimi Hendrix and Eddie Van Halen had is just wildly disproportionate.
00:36:36.000 You know, when I was doing my podcast, I was really excited to do Rodney Mullen and Eddie Van Halen together.
00:36:43.000 I wanted to get them, you know, totally different sports.
00:36:46.000 But those two guys are sort of the same.
00:36:51.000 They just created so much vocabulary, you can't even imagine it.
00:36:54.000 Eddie Van Halen doesn't get the credit he deserves either.
00:36:57.000 Oh, tell me, talk to me.
00:37:00.000 Well, it's just Van Halen became Van Hagar, and it became a different kind of music.
00:37:09.000 And I think a lot of the original hardcore fans left, but a lot, I think it got more popular with Sammy Hagar, but it was a different kind of music.
00:37:20.000 And not that it's bad, but it's different.
00:37:23.000 And then I think a lot of people just went, nah.
00:37:26.000 But like, if you go to, you know, some of the like big Van Halen with David, I think Van Halen with David Lee Roth in his prime was literally a perfect band.
00:37:38.000 It was phenomenal. 0.98
00:37:39.000 That was, they were the shit when I was in high school. 0.99
00:37:42.000 I mean, it was, everybody had Van Halen. 1.00
00:37:43.000 On their notebooks.
00:37:45.000 They made the VAs.
00:37:46.000 I remember it.
00:37:47.000 And they were so good.
00:37:47.000 They were awesome.
00:37:49.000 They were so good, and Eddie specifically could shred so hard, and some of those classic riffs.
00:37:58.000 I just don't think in the mainstream world he got the credit that he deserves.
00:38:05.000 I see it differently.
00:38:06.000 Well, people mention Clapton, who, of course, is a great wizard.
00:38:10.000 Always, it's number one Hendrix.
00:38:11.000 Most people have Hendrix as number one because he was so revolutionary.
00:38:14.000 Well, nobody's going to say Alan Holdsworth.
00:38:16.000 Yeah, I don't know who he is.
00:38:17.000 Exactly.
00:38:17.000 David Lee Roth kept Eddie Van Halen from becoming Alan Holdsworth.
00:38:25.000 And that's.
00:38:26.000 Who is Alan Holdsworth?
00:38:30.000 Oh, it's interesting. 0.98
00:38:32.000 Alan Holdsworth, like if you talk to your hot shit guitarist friends, they will very often, like everybody will just pause and say, well, yeah, that's Alan Holdsworth. 0.98
00:38:42.000 Really? 0.99
00:38:43.000 Yeah.
00:38:43.000 And it's sort of like listening to a modem for normal human beings, right?
00:38:49.000 That's why it's just not popular.
00:38:52.000 And so Eddie Van Halen was.
00:38:54.000 Who does he play with?
00:38:55.000 I don't know.
00:38:57.000 Alan Holdsworth.
00:38:57.000 Just by himself?
00:38:58.000 Okay.
00:38:58.000 Can we just actually weirdly put Alan Holdsworth?
00:38:58.000 Yeah.
00:39:01.000 Just like choose something with it?
00:39:03.000 We'll listen to some of his music.
00:39:03.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:39:05.000 We might have to edit it out of the episode because otherwise we'll get dinged.
00:39:08.000 Okay, well, I don't want you to.
00:39:09.000 Okay.
00:39:09.000 But we'll play it.
00:39:10.000 We'll play it.
00:39:10.000 And then we'll just come right back to it.
00:39:12.000 All right.
00:39:12.000 Let's do that.
00:39:12.000 Give me something, Jamie.
00:39:13.000 Was there any specific song that you'd like?
00:39:16.000 No, at all.
00:39:17.000 It's all mind-melting.
00:39:18.000 I'm just checking to see if he's got anything popular.
00:39:20.000 We might have known so I could tap into that, but I don't see nothing.
00:39:24.000 Like, is there a song that you like that you could recommend?
00:39:28.000 I just listen to a certain amount of it and then I don't listen to it again.
00:39:32.000 I'm not at that level where I need Alan Holdsworth.
00:39:34.000 Okay.
00:39:34.000 What does that mean?
00:39:37.000 What does that mean?
00:39:38.000 Thank you, Jamie.
00:39:39.000 I'd rather see some guy flying through the air with his pants on fire than listen to Alan Holdsworth.
00:39:46.000 Okay, here we go.
00:39:49.000 Live in Tokyo.
00:39:50.000 1984, live in Tokyo.
00:39:52.000 Tokyo Dream.
00:39:52.000 See if you can use the histogram to figure out, like, where the nerds are going.
00:40:02.000 Yeah, it shows you like where people spend their time on a video.
00:40:02.000 Histogram?
00:40:08.000 I would go right in the middle of it or something.
00:40:08.000 Oh really?
00:40:13.000 I'm already checking.
00:40:14.000 What you doing?
00:40:22.000 So nothing's going on right now.
00:40:25.000 Put it in the middle, Jamie.
00:40:52.000 What is that?
00:40:54.000 You've heard this before, though?
00:40:56.000 Yeah, what is that a bass?
00:40:57.000 What is the other guitar I'm hearing?
00:40:59.000 Because that is not matching up with what that bass player seems to be playing.
00:41:04.000 Do you hear that extra guitar?
00:41:07.000 That's slower and off time.
00:41:10.000 I don't know.
00:41:18.000 That's a bass, I think.
00:41:20.000 It doesn't sound like it's playing a move.
00:41:22.000 My guitarist friends will just salivate.
00:41:25.000 And I'll look at them.
00:41:27.000 They won't help.
00:41:28.000 No offense, but it's.
00:41:35.000 Can't be very.
00:41:36.000 It sounds like jazz, right?
00:41:38.000 So it's like jazz guitar.
00:41:40.000 Like, there's no singing.
00:41:41.000 I apologize, sir.
00:41:42.000 Well, look.
00:41:44.000 If I put on.
00:41:48.000 No more Jerry.
00:41:50.000 I've had it.
00:41:52.000 Oh, Jamie.
00:41:55.000 Jamie, you were going to have so much nerd hate.
00:41:57.000 I believe that people will agree with me, too, I believe.
00:41:57.000 That's fine.
00:42:01.000 Oh, 100%.
00:42:01.000 More will agree with your camp.
00:42:03.000 That was my point.
00:42:04.000 I think David Lee Roth had some comment about if it weren't for me, the brothers would be playing biker bars in the far valley or something.
00:42:14.000 And so David Lee Roth came up with what we would call the syntactic sugar, the thing that made Van Halen.
00:42:22.000 Fun and listenable and danceable, like dance the night away.
00:42:25.000 Yeah, just I didn't like Van Halen.
00:42:28.000 I love that song.
00:42:29.000 I never liked Van Halen.
00:42:31.000 Oh, how dare you!
00:42:31.000 Well, but I loved Eddie Van Halen and like Van Halen.
00:42:38.000 I didn't, you want to?
00:42:39.000 I'm not even embarrassed about that. 1.00
00:42:41.000 The one I'm embarrassed about, I completely dismissed ACDC in real time because I'm an idiot. 0.98
00:42:48.000 Oh, I've never been more wrong about something in my life. 0.89
00:42:50.000 How did you dismiss ACDC?
00:42:53.000 Good question. 0.99
00:42:54.000 They had a dumb thing going on with the school pants and the dirty deeds done dirt cheap. 1.00
00:43:01.000 Fucking song. 1.00
00:43:01.000 What a great song. 1.00
00:43:02.000 Well, you know, like musically, Hot for Teacher is an amazing composition.
00:43:07.000 Yeah.
00:43:08.000 Unbelievable, right?
00:43:10.000 But it's the key thing that they figured out is making things marketable.
00:43:14.000 Right.
00:43:15.000 And that's David Lee Roth.
00:43:15.000 Right.
00:43:16.000 And I think it's David Lee Roth.
00:43:19.000 But it was so him.
00:43:19.000 Charismatic and did jumping splits.
00:43:23.000 Yeah, he was amazing.
00:43:24.000 Amazing.
00:43:24.000 Amazing.
00:43:25.000 And he had a A secret weakness for old timey music.
00:43:29.000 Right.
00:43:30.000 Right?
00:43:30.000 Like Just a Gigolo, Ice Cream Man, all that kind of stuff.
00:43:34.000 So he's like almost a throwback to 1930s, even earlier, vaudeville.
00:43:40.000 He's an odd guy.
00:43:40.000 Have you ever met him?
00:43:43.000 I've wanted to so badly.
00:43:44.000 I'm so jealous.
00:43:45.000 But I don't think you ever really get to him.
00:43:48.000 It's always the show.
00:43:50.000 Like in podcasts, I really enjoy talking to him, but it's a little odd.
00:43:54.000 I didn't love the way he was. 1.00
00:43:57.000 My feeling, like, I would go the Jewish angle.
00:44:00.000 I would connect to him based on shared cultural heritage.
00:44:03.000 But what I think about Eddie is that Eddie wasn't just a guitarist, he was an electronics guy, he was a keyboard player.
00:44:12.000 He was handsome as the day is long, bursting with charisma.
00:44:20.000 And, like, you and I mostly don't know whether guys are good looking.
00:44:22.000 I know Eddie Van Halen was good looking.
00:44:25.000 Tell me more.
00:44:29.000 He was the whole thing.
00:44:30.000 Yeah, for sure.
00:44:31.000 Right.
00:44:31.000 You're a star.
00:44:32.000 And so my feeling is that those two guys really, you know, it's one of those things where you have two guys in a band that, you know, both of them are one in a billion kind of people and they happen to meet.
00:44:32.000 Yeah.
00:44:49.000 I'm happy to be wrong about Van Halen, but I didn't do it in real time.
00:44:51.000 I came to it later.
00:44:52.000 But I remember the first time I heard Van Halen one, I had the same mystical thing.
00:44:58.000 What is that?
00:45:00.000 Nothing sounds like this.
00:45:03.000 I've almost never had that in music.
00:45:05.000 You know, the first time I heard Smells Like Team Spirit, what is that?
00:45:09.000 Those, you know, there are these moments where something discontinuous happens.
00:45:12.000 But you heard like Ain't Talk About Love and that never got you? 1.00
00:45:17.000 No, Panama doesn't get me. 0.88
00:45:19.000 Ain't talking about love. 1.00
00:45:20.000 It was a fucking jam. 0.99
00:45:24.000 When was the last time you listened to it? 1.00
00:45:28.000 This year?
00:45:30.000 And nothing?
00:45:31.000 It's not that.
00:45:33.000 Well, okay.
00:45:33.000 So part of the thing is do you play an instrument?
00:45:38.000 That's the problem.
00:45:39.000 Yeah, I don't play anything.
00:45:41.000 You know, the thing about Eddie Van Halen is that he accepted the geometry of the neck.
00:45:46.000 Of the guitar.
00:45:48.000 And very often you see musicians say, I don't care what key it's in.
00:45:52.000 I can figure out how to do anything.
00:45:53.000 And even Halen didn't do that.
00:45:54.000 He said, Look, there's certain things that this thing makes possible.
00:45:59.000 And I'm going to accept the limitations of the instrument and figure out how to push it in all sorts of ways.
00:46:07.000 Another quote of his that I just love is this thing about if it doesn't cry, weep, moan, I don't care.
00:46:17.000 He wanted all of those noises.
00:46:20.000 And Figuring out how to get those noises, figuring out how to make the guitar into more.
00:46:25.000 This is a thing that obsesses people like Jeff Beck or Roy Buchanan or Eddie Van Halen, where they're just in some other space where it's no longer an instrument the way you and I see it.
00:46:41.000 You know, I've never wanted a whammy bar on my instrument until I saw Jeff Beck do crazy stuff that just isn't possible.
00:46:52.000 I never told you I drove him around once.
00:46:53.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:46:54.000 We had that car on air.
00:46:56.000 And that, you know, you've never had Derek Trucks on the program, have you?
00:47:03.000 Tedeschi Trucks?
00:47:05.000 Yeah.
00:47:05.000 No.
00:47:08.000 That guy.
00:47:09.000 I would.
00:47:10.000 Not a human.
00:47:11.000 Oh, he's amazing.
00:47:12.000 Amazing.
00:47:13.000 And.
00:47:14.000 And there's a bunch of different people sing songs.
00:47:17.000 So, yeah, look, I care tremendously about the guitar.
00:47:21.000 And the funny thing that I realized is that I stupidly mentioned guitars on JRE and I got sent.
00:47:27.000 Amazing guitars.
00:47:29.000 And I had Jamie sent a quad cortex.
00:47:34.000 I should have mentioned like Lamborghinis or like Jules or something.
00:47:37.000 It doesn't work.
00:47:38.000 I've mentioned all those things.
00:47:39.000 Okay.
00:47:41.000 But I became friends with like the greatest guitarists of our time.
00:47:44.000 And they're all suffering because nobody cares.
00:47:49.000 And I heard, and I haven't seen it, that you had Marcus King on and talked about the death of rock.
00:47:56.000 Well, I talked about the death of rock before, and Marcus reached out.
00:47:59.000 And that's why I had him on.
00:48:00.000 He's like, man, rock's not dead. 0.99
00:48:01.000 We're doing it every fucking night. 0.99
00:48:02.000 And I was like, all right, come on, man. 0.99
00:48:03.000 Let's talk.
00:48:05.000 And did you get to the blues, which he excels at?
00:48:08.000 Well, we mostly just were talking about just music in general in his life.
00:48:12.000 And he's in it very.
00:48:13.000 Boy, did he give you a nice guitar.
00:48:15.000 Yeah, it's beautiful, right? 1.00
00:48:16.000 He's a cool motherfucker. 0.99
00:48:17.000 And he's super talented, too. 0.99
00:48:17.000 He's a cool guy. 0.99
00:48:19.000 Never met him.
00:48:20.000 Well, it's like these.
00:48:23.000 This is what my conversation was about.
00:48:26.000 Like, this is what prompted it, rather, is that when I was a kid, Rock and roll music was the big popular music.
00:48:33.000 100%.
00:48:34.000 It was all Rolling Stones, ACDC.
00:48:39.000 These bands were huge. 0.99
00:48:40.000 Zeppelin, they were fucking huge. 0.98
00:48:42.000 They were the biggest bands. 0.96
00:48:44.000 That's not the case anymore.
00:48:46.000 And that's weird.
00:48:46.000 That's right.
00:48:47.000 And what I said is, I don't understand how a music genre that's so popular can stop being popular when it's still so good.
00:48:57.000 Like when we have Protect Our Parks and we'll play Freebird, we still go nuts for that guitar solo.
00:49:04.000 What happened to Freeberg?
00:49:07.000 I'm pretty sure if you looked at Google's data, Freeberg was in, it went away for a long time.
00:49:14.000 And then it got resurrected as a meme.
00:49:18.000 Right?
00:49:18.000 Because you can feel this insanely long intro.
00:49:24.000 Just so luxurious.
00:49:25.000 You can't believe anybody would put up with it anymore.
00:49:27.000 Right.
00:49:28.000 And then it's two different songs.
00:49:29.000 Right.
00:49:30.000 Lord knows I can't.
00:49:32.000 Right.
00:49:34.000 All of a sudden it becomes alive.
00:49:35.000 Right.
00:49:36.000 Fly high, free bird.
00:49:37.000 Yeah.
00:49:38.000 And then suddenly you're on fire.
00:49:41.000 Yeah.
00:49:42.000 You know, it's just like you want to fly an American flag, you want to shoot lasers.
00:49:46.000 Whatever it is.
00:49:48.000 That feeling, I think, went away.
00:49:51.000 And I think that Freebird, I'd love to see the data.
00:49:55.000 It came back.
00:49:57.000 And in part, it was probably Trump and Elon and this re.
00:50:03.000 We're in a masculinity crisis world over.
00:50:05.000 And the masculinity crisis originally killed Freebird and it brought it back.
00:50:12.000 I think Freebird was brought back by Protect Our Parks.
00:50:16.000 Okay.
00:50:17.000 You think so?
00:50:19.000 I mean, Google Trends says it's never really gone away.
00:50:22.000 Wait, What is that peak in 2020?
00:50:25.000 There's a peak in around December 9th, 2010.
00:50:28.000 Wait, wait, that's 20.
00:50:30.000 A peak in 2010.
00:50:32.000 That's weird.
00:50:33.000 Something could have happened.
00:50:34.000 We could look it up.
00:50:35.000 I wonder what it was.
00:50:36.000 It probably was in a movie.
00:50:38.000 Yeah, it seems pretty steady.
00:50:39.000 Well, the reason I said that is that I would make this reference because you used to be able to refer to Freebird.
00:50:48.000 Right, right, right.
00:50:48.000 It was a meme.
00:50:48.000 Everybody knew it.
00:50:49.000 Yeah, people would yell at me.
00:50:50.000 And then there was a period of time where no young person had any clue what I was talking about.
00:50:55.000 And I know, oh, that's interesting.
00:50:57.000 Because they still knew Stairway to Heaven.
00:50:59.000 If you remember these like top 500 songs of all time.
00:51:02.000 Yeah.
00:51:03.000 And then it would always come down to the last two and it would always be Freebird and Stairway to Heaven.
00:51:08.000 Those would be invariantly.
00:51:10.000 Right.
00:51:11.000 Then suddenly nobody knew what Freebird was and now everybody knows again.
00:51:15.000 So I.
00:51:18.000 Yeah.
00:51:20.000 I will stand corrected, but there was a period of time where young people didn't know it.
00:51:24.000 Well, is this Google Trends?
00:51:25.000 Yeah.
00:51:25.000 Is that what that is?
00:51:26.000 So it's just people looking at it.
00:51:27.000 I could even go like that's probably when they put the video on YouTube for the first time or it became available on Apple for the first time to download and it wasn't only on Napster or something like that.
00:51:36.000 But to go back to the blues aspect of it, it's blues based rock that feels like that thing that you and I relate to.
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00:52:41.000 You know, we're not most, I'm really into the blues, but that's its own controversy because when black audiences stopped showing up to blues shows, the performers got worse because the audience was a huge part of the experience.
00:52:59.000 I tell you about this argument I got into with John Mayer about the blues. 0.66
00:53:02.000 No.
00:53:04.000 So I ran into John Mayer, San Vicente Bungalows.
00:53:10.000 And I've been in awe of that guy intellectually.
00:53:14.000 When he talks about music, I get so much out of it.
00:53:17.000 He's just a very perceptive, very brilliant guy.
00:53:21.000 And so I was really excited to meet him.
00:53:24.000 And we get into this discussion.
00:53:26.000 And I said, You're like a huge Stevie Ray Vaughn fan.
00:53:29.000 And I said, I really don't get it.
00:53:32.000 I like him, I think he's a great player, but I don't understand.
00:53:35.000 The focus.
00:53:36.000 And he said, Oh, I can explain that.
00:53:37.000 He says, I came from the MTV generation.
00:53:40.000 And he was the blues packaged for us.
00:53:43.000 Like a genius guy, for sure, but packaged for MTV.
00:53:49.000 He said, But, you know, blues isn't really a real musical form, it's an ingredient.
00:53:59.000 I said, What are you talking about?
00:54:01.000 He says, Well, you would never go to a blues show.
00:54:04.000 I said, I can't believe I'm saying this to John Mayer.
00:54:07.000 But I don't think you know what you're talking about.
00:54:10.000 House of Blues.
00:54:12.000 It's literally.
00:54:14.000 Well, he meant something.
00:54:15.000 A bunch of different things. 1.00
00:54:16.000 So the thing is that I caught the end of black audiences, like old black people listening to the blues and paying for it. 1.00
00:54:24.000 So there's who pays and who plays. 1.00
00:54:26.000 And black people are still paying for blues, but a lot of them aren't. 0.99
00:54:30.000 Sorry, are still playing blues, but a lot of them aren't paying for it. 0.99
00:54:34.000 So when I go, for example, to see Cadillac Zach's.
00:54:37.000 Maui Sugar Mill show every Monday night.
00:54:40.000 I go occasionally in Tarzana. 1.00
00:54:43.000 It's like 70 year old and up white people. 0.78
00:54:48.000 So you see like hot chicks in their 80s in crop tops dancing. 0.88
00:54:52.000 And that's what it is now.
00:54:55.000 It's like a really old crowd keeping this thing alive.
00:54:59.000 And I can't understand it because it feels great, Joe.
00:55:01.000 Right.
00:55:05.000 And that's the thing.
00:55:06.000 It's just like, you know, Banamasa, he does these cruises keeping the blues alive.
00:55:11.000 My feeling is like, F that.
00:55:14.000 We've got to actually get people back into understanding what it is.
00:55:19.000 So, if you picture those huge bands in your youth, stop thinking about the band on stage rocking out and pan in your mind into the audience.
00:55:30.000 And what do you see?
00:55:32.000 Young people.
00:55:33.000 Young people.
00:55:36.000 What are they doing?
00:55:37.000 Dancing, having fun.
00:55:38.000 They're dancing.
00:55:40.000 There's some chick in a crop top on some guy's shoulders.
00:55:43.000 Rocking out. 1.00
00:55:45.000 Free bird. 1.00
00:55:46.000 When hot chicks stop dancing to your music, it starts to enter its death throes. 1.00
00:55:51.000 Damn. 1.00
00:55:51.000 And that's true with jazz. 1.00
00:55:54.000 It's true with traditional RB.
00:55:57.000 And it's true with the blues.
00:55:58.000 It's true with rock.
00:56:00.000 And so the important thing, and I keep telling people, is that you have to get people dancing.
00:56:05.000 Once you start becoming intellectual, like Alan Holdsworth, nobody's dancing to Alan Holdsworth.
00:56:10.000 Maybe you are. 0.99
00:56:12.000 It's not my shit. 0.99
00:56:14.000 What do you think? 0.99
00:56:14.000 You have no idea. 0.99
00:56:17.000 Honestly, you guys sound old as shit right now. 1.00
00:56:17.000 Dude. 1.00
00:56:20.000 There's so much music and rock music in arenas right now that's selling out.
00:56:25.000 What is rock in arenas?
00:56:26.000 There's a bunch of bands I could sell.
00:56:28.000 Bad Omens, Beartooth, Corn just posted a video in Sao Paulo, Brazil, 50,000 people going crazy.
00:56:35.000 Yeah, like Meshugga. 0.99
00:56:37.000 It's out there.
00:56:38.000 Yeah.
00:56:38.000 But it's not what you got.
00:56:39.000 You guys don't like it either.
00:56:41.000 Yeah, but it's not the big popular music that it was when I was a kid.
00:56:45.000 There's only five artists in the world that are popular all over the place right now.
00:56:50.000 Because it's now micro.
00:56:52.000 Right.
00:56:52.000 Right.
00:56:52.000 Because there's too many bands, there's too much music, too much content.
00:56:55.000 It's also the control of the institutions to tell us what we like has slipped.
00:57:02.000 Right.
00:57:03.000 And so, in part, you know, like it was our version of payola that, you know, when I was growing up in LA, it was KMET and KLOS that determined, or KROQ.
00:57:15.000 Those are the three stations that mattered.
00:57:17.000 And they told us, here's the offering, boys.
00:57:22.000 This is what's on tap.
00:57:23.000 Right now, you know, are you into Math Core?
00:57:26.000 Do you think that's it?
00:57:28.000 It's the death of, because, wow, now that you're saying that, I'm thinking the death of radio and the death of rock and roll.
00:57:35.000 They sink.
00:57:38.000 Because radio really stopped being a thing early 2000s?
00:57:46.000 Early 2000s, radio stopped being a thing.
00:57:48.000 Well, remember when LimeWire came through and everybody could get all the songs that they wanted.
00:57:53.000 That was an issue.
00:57:53.000 Right, right.
00:57:54.000 But it felt like, if anything, I thought at the beginning when Metallica was railing, when Lars Ulrich was railing against Napster, I'm like, these are just your fans.
00:58:03.000 They're just your fans that are getting your music for free.
00:58:06.000 Yep.
00:58:06.000 You're going to have to adapt, but they still love you.
00:58:08.000 And, you know, don't you make most of your money touring?
00:58:11.000 Or I don't know.
00:58:12.000 I don't know what the economics of it are, but they're going to change.
00:58:14.000 This is a new thing.
00:58:15.000 Right now, micro markets, you know, just in prog metal, there are so many different flavors.
00:58:22.000 I understand.
00:58:23.000 But what we're getting at is that the radio sort of dictated what became popular in a lot of ways.
00:58:31.000 And now, video games become popular in more of a sense of a viral way.
00:58:36.000 Sure.
00:58:37.000 Well, one thing is that these clips, if your clip gets picked up by TikTok and Instagram reels, that's, you know, some tiny fraction of a song is the catnip that leads everyone to your door.
00:58:50.000 I've downloaded many, many songs that way.
00:58:50.000 100%.
00:58:53.000 But I was hanging with Misha Mansoor, who was making the Jamie claim, like, you got old, Grandpa.
00:58:59.000 And his point, yeah.
00:59:02.000 The thing is, I have at least the courage to hang out with actually cool people.
00:59:06.000 He said, you know, his point was, you're just not even watching it.
00:59:10.000 I said, what do you mean, Misha?
00:59:11.000 He said, video games.
00:59:14.000 Video games, the music in video games matters much more than you imagine.
00:59:19.000 And it's like, totally right.
00:59:21.000 That makes sense.
00:59:22.000 And so, you know, what we are thinking about in get off my lawn mode is there was something lost and it hasn't been reborn anywhere.
00:59:33.000 So that's the part that young Jamie is not getting correct.
00:59:37.000 Something was just lost.
00:59:39.000 Now, lots of new stuff sprouted up, but like EDM.
00:59:43.000 And DJing is really where a lot of that dancing hot chick energy went. 0.62
00:59:49.000 Mmm. 0.96
00:59:50.000 That makes sense.
00:59:51.000 Yeah.
00:59:52.000 Right?
00:59:52.000 And then, like, if you've ever.
00:59:53.000 If that's where guys want to go, where the dancing hot chicks are, they will follow anywhere. 0.73
00:59:59.000 Right. 1.00
00:59:59.000 Right? 1.00
01:00:00.000 And, you know, that's the whole.
01:00:02.000 I was in.
01:00:03.000 What's this, Jamie?
01:00:04.000 This is EDC Vegas 2026.
01:00:06.000 This is just the example of what you're saying.
01:00:08.000 Is this electronic?
01:00:09.000 Yeah.
01:00:10.000 Yeah.
01:00:10.000 This is, like, as big as it gets.
01:00:11.000 If I look at the stage, look at all these lights.
01:00:14.000 I wonder if Molly didn't exist, how much of this would be out there?
01:00:17.000 Yeah.
01:00:18.000 I mean, it's a good question, right?
01:00:19.000 If LSD didn't exist, how much of that music wouldn't have gotten big, too?
01:00:23.000 Oh, a lot, yeah. 1.00
01:00:24.000 But yeah, this is where all the girls hang out.
01:00:26.000 So, like, I found myself in Vegas.
01:00:26.000 Right.
01:00:29.000 Except for Ella Langley, and I was sort of antithesis to that.
01:00:34.000 What is?
01:00:34.000 Ella Langley.
01:00:35.000 What's that?
01:00:36.000 She's the biggest country artist almost ever now.
01:00:40.000 First female with, like, two top 100 songs ever.
01:00:43.000 How am I so out of the loop?
01:00:45.000 Because there was a big song.
01:00:47.000 Oh, I know that song.
01:00:48.000 That song's great, yeah.
01:00:49.000 She's got another one now.
01:00:50.000 And has she been around for a long time?
01:00:52.000 Nope.
01:00:52.000 Pretty new.
01:00:53.000 She's like 24, 25. 1.00
01:00:54.000 And she's killing it. 1.00
01:00:55.000 Murdering it. 0.96
01:00:58.000 So, part of what's going on is there's no way to monitor.
01:01:02.000 Like, even if you have really current young people, they're monitoring a subset of what's going on.
01:01:09.000 Nobody's tracking the whole thing.
01:01:11.000 Right.
01:01:12.000 And why country, though?
01:01:13.000 Why is country exploding the way it's exploding?
01:01:15.000 Well, because we're all in a meaning crisis.
01:01:17.000 If you think about the way in which country music, for example, can develop a story through tropes very, very quickly.
01:01:28.000 Yeah.
01:01:29.000 Right.
01:01:29.000 And so, in part, the idea is that story songs and a return, try that in a small town, is transgressive.
01:01:42.000 Try that in a small town is a really powerful message.
01:01:46.000 Right.
01:01:47.000 You don't have to say a lot.
01:01:48.000 And we all want the cowboy.
01:01:50.000 We all want the girl at the county fair, you know.
01:01:55.000 We just don't know how to get back to her.
01:01:58.000 Right.
01:01:58.000 We don't want a wholesome existence, you know.
01:02:03.000 I got a barbecue stain on my white t shirt.
01:02:05.000 That's Tim McGraw, right?
01:02:07.000 Like, you know, she's killing that miniskirt, you know. 0.97
01:02:11.000 Heart, don't forget something like that. 0.99
01:02:13.000 Beautiful story.
01:02:14.000 Very, very quickly told.
01:02:17.000 And that's old now, but the point being hip hop and its storytelling and the return to spoken word and poetry and the legacy of the talking blues had a great run, spread worldwide. 0.95
01:02:35.000 You know, you talk about whites taking over. 1.00
01:02:37.000 Like Tamils. 0.99
01:02:37.000 What do you mean whites? 0.99
01:02:40.000 And, you know, indigenous Peruvians have taken over hip hop in their local sectors. 0.81
01:02:47.000 So hip hop was just this great platform that once every local culture figured out some version of that.
01:02:55.000 And I talk about when I entered Bollywood, there was a song, Amadek Termunda Bigrajai.
01:03:04.000 You know, Mama, look, your child is being ruined.
01:03:06.000 And it has this like.
01:03:10.000 Hey, mom, hey, dad, don't moan and groan.
01:03:12.000 Why don't you learn to live with the times and please leave us alone?
01:03:16.000 It goes every generation's message.
01:03:17.000 Yeah, but it's like it's delivered in boogie woogie, reggae rap, rock and roll, and bungra.
01:03:25.000 It was the first lame attempt at rap that I saw in a Bollywood film with Jackie Schroff.
01:03:31.000 And they've all made it theirs.
01:03:33.000 And so I was hanging out in India now with a DJ on his program, Untriggered.
01:03:41.000 And. 0.94
01:03:44.000 It's changing the developing world at a level that rock and roll changed us.
01:03:50.000 It was, you know, the music of liberation.
01:03:51.000 John Mayer's point, of course, is that the guitar, the electric guitar, retains the stylistic characteristics of cars in the 1950s.
01:04:00.000 And that thing was the twin experience of having a car and having a guitar was personal expression and liberation for American males in the 50s.
01:04:11.000 So, um, Yeah, but I think a lot about our guitarist friends because they're suffering.
01:04:18.000 The world's greatest guitarists are living today and nobody cares.
01:04:23.000 They all follow each other.
01:04:24.000 The funny thing is, if you start following these people on Instagram, as I do, I look to see which of my friends are following the great guitarists, and it's other great guitarists.
01:04:37.000 It's none of my normal friends.
01:04:39.000 Like, how many of my normal friends know who Tim Henson is, a great Texas guitarist?
01:04:45.000 I do.
01:04:46.000 This man.
01:04:47.000 Do you?
01:04:47.000 Yeah.
01:04:48.000 What kind of music?
01:04:49.000 Oh, man, I can't even explain it.
01:04:51.000 He pretty much invented a genre that only he mastered and can explain.
01:04:57.000 It's like Tex Mex melodic.
01:05:02.000 If I had a glass and I broke it, if I took Tex Mex and I broke it on the ground and I reassembled it from different things, it's completely angular and an idea will last.
01:05:11.000 It's like a psychedelic thing where it'll last for five seconds and it'll be on to the next thing and it's just angular and fragmented and sewn together and beautiful and inspiring.
01:05:21.000 Give me some, Jen.
01:05:22.000 Yeah, I have to play it for you because the drummer and bass player are also awesome, but it pretty much revolves around the guitar.
01:05:30.000 And you see, the thing is that they're so tight with each other that, you know, a better example even than this would be this thing that they released called GOAT, which was the thing that put them on the map.
01:05:42.000 And that was great.
01:05:46.000 Right?
01:05:47.000 Also, Tim is just like the loveliest human being.
01:05:50.000 I watched him as a young boy.
01:05:51.000 Boy, I was him before he got all the crazy neck tattoos.
01:05:54.000 Oh.
01:06:00.000 Well, that's just broken out.
01:06:02.000 I don't know.
01:06:03.000 It's not Tim, is it?
01:06:05.000 They posted it.
01:06:08.000 It says it's him.
01:06:11.000 This is a different human.
01:06:13.000 Let's hear the song.
01:06:16.000 I think that's someone posting a riff.
01:06:18.000 That was their account.
01:06:20.000 Yeah, I know, but maybe he just put it up there.
01:06:24.000 By the way, do you hear the Mexican influence?
01:06:27.000 Yeah, definitely.
01:06:29.000 It's very unique.
01:06:30.000 Very unique sound.
01:06:31.000 This is who I hang with.
01:06:32.000 I love these guys.
01:06:33.000 This is this matters to me, and this is new, right?
01:06:38.000 And just the way this, uh, what like Antoine de Poutrin that's taking over the world is basically you hear the Middle East, um, but these guys are basically into microtones.
01:06:49.000 If you take 24 beats, you can divide it by sixes, you can divide it by fours.
01:06:54.000 Uh, so the mathematics of rhythm, um, you know, the stuff that like only Vinnie Cayuda was able to do before people are sort of getting hip to things that were happening on Oud.
01:07:06.000 Are now happening on microtonal guitars.
01:07:08.000 And what it is, as I see it, is like this violent birth of people bored by standard Western forms.
01:07:16.000 And I'm for this.
01:07:19.000 I'm not for all of the slop that, you know, like young people are always into the coolest stuff.
01:07:24.000 No, they're not.
01:07:25.000 There are lame times, there are cool times.
01:07:27.000 There's really cool stuff happening now, but it's the fact, particularly this Quebec kind of thing that broke out with these guys in costume.
01:07:40.000 Huh?
01:07:42.000 You don't know this?
01:07:43.000 Antoine de Poitrain, something like that.
01:07:46.000 There's something.
01:07:47.000 Quebec costumes?
01:07:48.000 What do you think?
01:07:49.000 Look, you remember the residents who were this art group from San Francisco.
01:07:49.000 Yeah.
01:07:52.000 Nobody knew who they were.
01:07:53.000 They would have giant eyeballs as heads and they would play completely insane things like Johnny Cash's Ring of Fire, but in angular, bizarre ways.
01:08:03.000 I missed that too.
01:08:04.000 Okay.
01:08:05.000 Did you miss it?
01:08:05.000 I don't know where we're going.
01:08:07.000 So Antoine de Poitrain is this thing.
01:08:10.000 That took over, which doesn't sound like anything.
01:08:13.000 It's like that new thing.
01:08:16.000 So, you know, because.
01:08:38.000 So look at that guitar's friends.
01:08:50.000 Now, the mathematics.
01:08:53.000 Look at Jamie.
01:08:55.000 The mathematics of this is that there's this freak fact, which is that if you take the octave, which is doubling a frequency, you take the 12th root of it, break it into 12 semitones, and then take 19 of them stacked, 2 to the 19 over 12 is equal to 2.996 something.
01:09:12.000 It's almost 3.
01:09:13.000 That means that you can force people into this quantized music where you come up with this number 12, which is magical for number theory reasons, and you can fool the ear into thinking that 19 of these 12 semitones is a complete tripling of frequency.
01:09:33.000 Because of that, we've been in even tempered music since the time of Bach, and these guys are breaking us out together with Jacob Collier.
01:09:41.000 They're saying, why would you accept that as a prison?
01:09:45.000 And so, how does stuff like this become popular?
01:09:47.000 Is it just viral?
01:09:49.000 Yeah.
01:09:50.000 Because suddenly you see two guys in costumes that don't look anything like anything you know making music.
01:09:50.000 Yeah.
01:09:58.000 There's a moment where it switches into six beats per unit, into four beats per unit because it's on a 24 cycle.
01:10:06.000 And suddenly you just feel good.
01:10:08.000 And also, if any of these guys get cocky, you can just swap them out.
01:10:12.000 Ha!
01:10:14.000 Put a mask on some new guy, get him in there.
01:10:17.000 No, but it's anti egoic.
01:10:19.000 It's anti egoic.
01:10:20.000 Right.
01:10:21.000 Right.
01:10:21.000 So, in part, you know, it's like Buckethead.
01:10:24.000 Buckethead didn't want to be like, you have trouble being Joe Rogan.
01:10:27.000 I even have trouble being Eric Weinstein.
01:10:29.000 I'm a fraction of a Joe Rogan.
01:10:31.000 It's hard to be well known.
01:10:33.000 And these guys are erasing themselves.
01:10:35.000 And that idea of, you know, it's very funny.
01:10:39.000 Tim Henson, I think, has a song called Ego Death with Steve Vai.
01:10:43.000 Um, Ego death is really hot because people are racing themselves, is what everybody isn't trying to do who's chasing clout.
01:10:53.000 Right.
01:10:54.000 And people like that.
01:10:56.000 Yeah, because it's a form, or they don't just like that.
01:11:00.000 They also don't mind if you're chasing clout and you say, I'm chasing some clout.
01:11:07.000 Right.
01:11:08.000 I'm trying to get that bag.
01:11:09.000 So, what they don't want is somebody saying, like Bill Gates.
01:11:14.000 Right.
01:11:14.000 I'm just looking out for humanity and global health.
01:11:17.000 Exactly.
01:11:19.000 So, what I'm doing, I'm engineering ticks so that they bite you and you get allergic to red meat, and I'm dropping them off from helicopters.
01:11:27.000 We're going to administer vaccines involuntarily through ticks.
01:11:31.000 Yeah, and mosquitoes.
01:11:33.000 Yeah.
01:11:34.000 So, all of this stuff really bothers people.
01:11:37.000 Well, it's the disingenuous.
01:11:37.000 It's the disingenuous.
01:11:38.000 But also, he doesn't have any friends. 0.99
01:11:41.000 You know, and he can't get any pussy anymore because he keeps getting caught. 1.00
01:11:44.000 He can get it. 1.00
01:11:47.000 But if we were smart, we'd feed that guy pussy. 1.00
01:11:51.000 Keep him happy. 1.00
01:11:51.000 We did. 1.00
01:11:52.000 We did.
01:11:53.000 We?
01:11:54.000 I wasn't involved.
01:11:55.000 Neither was I.
01:11:56.000 Yeah, allegedly.
01:11:57.000 What do you mean, allegedly?
01:11:59.000 I didn't go to that island.
01:12:01.000 You didn't?
01:12:02.000 No.
01:12:03.000 No, you're one of the people that saw through him right away.
01:12:06.000 No, but he offered me partnership and I didn't take it.
01:12:09.000 And I regretted that for a while. 1.00
01:12:12.000 Because he would have been cha-ching. 1.00
01:12:15.000 I would have been made. 0.99
01:12:17.000 Rich or deceased?
01:12:19.000 Probably both.
01:12:19.000 Probably both.
01:12:21.000 Yeah, a couple times I've been offered real wealth and with crazy stuff, but the Epstein thing, I don't know that I've actually said that on a podcast.
01:12:32.000 He offered me a partnership, and the only condition was that I had to get rid of my existing partners.
01:12:39.000 Like, I had to stab my partners in the back in order to become his partner.
01:12:42.000 Oh, yeah. 0.89
01:12:43.000 So he'd own you.
01:12:45.000 Yeah.
01:12:46.000 You know, it's like, show me that you're.
01:12:48.000 I don't want to sidetrack this for all going back, but these two are 333 year old aliens, time travelers, apparently.
01:12:55.000 So they cannot be easily replaced.
01:12:57.000 Yes, they can. 0.99
01:12:58.000 That's horseshit. 0.99
01:13:00.000 Look, I'll make a prediction. 0.98
01:13:01.000 If these guys haven't been unmasked, you're going to unmask these guys and you're going to.
01:13:05.000 Find out that they've got Middle East music.
01:13:06.000 Well, please don't unmask them.
01:13:07.000 They already unmasked Banksy.
01:13:09.000 Yeah. 0.99
01:13:09.000 Can't we have some fucking mysteries? 0.99
01:13:11.000 Let's have our masks. 1.00
01:13:12.000 Damn it. 0.99
01:13:13.000 I think they're cool. 0.99
01:13:14.000 I like that music.
01:13:15.000 That was fun.
01:13:16.000 That was fun.
01:13:17.000 I like viral things too.
01:13:19.000 I like things that just spread just from weirdness.
01:13:22.000 You know, someone sends it to me.
01:13:23.000 That's one of the things that I love about Spotify.
01:13:26.000 If I'm listening to something weird, it'll suggest something weird, you know, like that I've never heard of before.
01:13:30.000 Bands have never heard of before.
01:13:31.000 And then all of a sudden I click on it.
01:13:32.000 The suggestion thing.
01:13:34.000 That's how I get new music now.
01:13:35.000 Or I use. 1.00
01:13:37.000 What's that fucking app? 1.00
01:13:38.000 Shazam. 1.00
01:13:39.000 I use Shazam if I'm at a pool hall or something, something cool comes on.
01:13:42.000 Like, ooh, what is that?
01:13:44.000 See, I do that, but then I end up in these ruts.
01:13:50.000 Like, for example, I really like songs that go between A minor and E major.
01:13:54.000 And that is so it just gives me more and more of a nerd.
01:13:59.000 You're a music nerd.
01:14:01.000 Well, listen, that's your algorithm.
01:14:03.000 There's nothing wrong with that.
01:14:04.000 Okay.
01:14:05.000 You're a mixed martial arts nerd.
01:14:07.000 I am.
01:14:07.000 I know.
01:14:08.000 And also, there's a lot of things that are way more boring than that.
01:14:11.000 Pool.
01:14:12.000 I watch Professional Pool probably three or four hours a day.
01:14:16.000 Yeah?
01:14:17.000 Yeah.
01:14:18.000 That's how I escape.
01:14:20.000 I escape in the geometry and the movements, the patterns.
01:14:23.000 Dude, you should have seen the comedians in the physics department yesterday.
01:14:27.000 Oh, wow.
01:14:27.000 It was hysterically fun.
01:14:28.000 It must have been amazing.
01:14:29.000 Duncan.
01:14:30.000 Duncan and Kurt together. 0.99
01:14:32.000 First of all, together, they are the fucking dynamic doer. 0.98
01:14:35.000 They are such a good duo because they're both sarcastic and they're both heavily engaged. 0.99
01:14:40.000 They were so well behaved as far as they could.
01:14:43.000 Yeah.
01:14:44.000 But then.
01:14:45.000 I don't know whether I could tell these stories.
01:14:48.000 Tell these stories.
01:14:49.000 Tell them.
01:14:50.000 What'd Kurt do?
01:14:50.000 What happened?
01:14:52.000 So, part of the. 1.00
01:14:54.000 Fuck, I love that guy. 0.99
01:14:56.000 He's so awesome. 1.00
01:14:57.000 So, I love him as a real person.
01:14:59.000 Whenever he comes into the mothership green room, I'm like, yes, give me a dose.
01:15:04.000 I got real.
01:15:05.000 He gave me some wild anti Israel stuff, I think.
01:15:08.000 I couldn't tell whether it was pro or anti.
01:15:12.000 So, at the end, there was an experimentalist who was like, come to my parlor.
01:15:18.000 I'll show you my.
01:15:19.000 Etchings, no, no, no, cryogenic giant vacuum tubes from hell or whatever.
01:15:24.000 So we all went down there.
01:15:26.000 And so we're in the basement of the physics department.
01:15:27.000 You can tell the difference between the theory floor and the part where they actually do things.
01:15:33.000 And these guys were just, you know, we're effectively at 77 degrees above absolute zero with conditions that only occur in deep space inside of this thing coated in like tinfoil.
01:15:47.000 And so these guys are just cracking jokes about growing weed and, and, uh, What happens if you put hydroponic weed in that chair?
01:15:55.000 But the other thing is that comedians are really intellectual nerds.
01:16:02.000 And a lot of them, not all of them.
01:16:04.000 Those two guys are.
01:16:05.000 Yeah, for sure.
01:16:06.000 For sure.
01:16:06.000 Yeah.
01:16:07.000 And they really wanted to know okay, what is it that you guys are doing down here?
01:16:11.000 And how do I understand?
01:16:12.000 The good ones are very curious.
01:16:13.000 Well, Duncan's amazing.
01:16:14.000 Very curious.
01:16:15.000 Although he drew it completely pornographic.
01:16:17.000 I know.
01:16:18.000 He was making notes.
01:16:19.000 Let me send it to Jamie because Kurt sent it to me.
01:16:19.000 Yeah.
01:16:22.000 This is the notes Duncan was taking during the physics.
01:16:24.000 Yeah.
01:16:25.000 Because I'm like doing battle a little bit with the.
01:16:29.000 There's one extremely smart string theorist in the audience named Jacques Dissler.
01:16:33.000 And so almost all of the interactions between Jacques and myself were, we were both being very collegial, but it was, you know, it was pretty hot.
01:16:43.000 I said to you, Jamie.
01:16:44.000 And so he says, while you were doing that, I did a little sketch of you.
01:16:49.000 I can figure out your exact anatomy.
01:16:52.000 It's a gift.
01:16:56.000 Well, you need something like that.
01:16:58.000 That's the last talk he's ever coming to.
01:17:00.000 No, I'm kidding.
01:17:02.000 No, actually, I was really trying to hook.
01:17:04.000 So he's taking notes.
01:17:06.000 Give me some volume.
01:17:06.000 Oh, no, please.
01:17:07.000 Joe.
01:17:12.000 Thank you, Joe.
01:17:19.000 Hey, guys, I got some other things to do this afternoon.
01:17:21.000 It's been great.
01:17:22.000 Okay.
01:17:23.000 Bye.
01:17:29.000 Oh.
01:17:32.000 Oh my God.
01:17:34.000 So.
01:17:35.000 But yeah, I wanted.
01:17:35.000 Oh, Jesus.
01:17:39.000 You know, C.P. Snow did this famous essay called The Two Cultures.
01:17:44.000 And it was about how literary intellectuals and scientific intellectuals used to be one group and then they moved apart.
01:17:51.000 And so now we can't hear each other across the chasm.
01:17:56.000 I really wanted to create a pipeline of not the seven scientists we see on all of the talks on the podcasts.
01:18:05.000 But, like, choose who you want to talk to. 0.98
01:18:08.000 Who's doing cool shit? 0.98
01:18:11.000 The comedians belong in our science departments. 0.96
01:18:16.000 Otherwise, how are people going to know what's going on? 0.99
01:18:18.000 There's this funny shit happening. 0.89
01:18:22.000 Well, and by the way, the UFO thing that's now blowing up, there's going to be some crazy science collision with the UFO narrative. 0.99
01:18:32.000 There's no way of stopping it at this point.
01:18:34.000 So, you've turned a corner on this.
01:18:36.000 Let's talk about that because I saw you on Jesse Michael's show and you were talking about how just a few years ago you thought that the entire narrative was complete nonsense.
01:18:46.000 Probably five, six years ago by now.
01:18:48.000 And what changed?
01:18:57.000 There was no way to explain.
01:18:59.000 So Jesse was going on and on about it.
01:19:01.000 I said, Jesse, you're a smart guy and I often would call him the back alley scholar.
01:19:08.000 So, he knew a lot of stuff that was sort of forbidden knowledge, and he wouldn't be quiet about it.
01:19:19.000 So, I said, Okay, I'm going to disabuse you of the idea that you're actually into something.
01:19:23.000 And I realized very quickly, at a minimum, there is a massive denied program, like usually called a special access program.
01:19:34.000 One or more.
01:19:36.000 There's no way to synchronize that number of people who've had experiences that are so similar.
01:19:42.000 And there was a lot of stuff that I couldn't make sense of.
01:19:44.000 And what attracted me in a certain sense was I couldn't come up with any explanation.
01:19:50.000 So rare.
01:19:52.000 I usually have exactly the opposite problem, which is I come up with too many explanations.
01:19:57.000 I can't come up with a single explanation that makes sense of what I now know.
01:20:00.000 And also the fact that the government outreached to me and to Sam Harris and to Lex Friedman.
01:20:06.000 And, you know, there was this thing where these guys who checked out said there's going to be a massive disclosure and we need people to disseminate information.
01:20:14.000 These things to the public, and you have a share of the public who listens to you.
01:20:20.000 And we need to get you informed so that you can help mediate the disclosure.
01:20:25.000 So, what prompted this change in narrative?
01:20:29.000 What's going on behind the government?
01:20:32.000 Yeah.
01:20:32.000 We don't know.
01:20:33.000 We don't know.
01:20:34.000 Look, we don't know what the thing or things is are yet.
01:20:41.000 Some of it is, again, so low quality that it's embarrassing to be seen with it. 0.91
01:20:45.000 So, my colleagues who don't want to take this seriously use that, like, okay, so you're now on the little green men train.
01:20:55.000 I said, no, I'm on the special access program trade. 0.60
01:20:57.000 There is for sure special access program or programs that have UFO on the side of them that may or may not have aliens or craft or non human intelligence in them.
01:21:08.000 It may be that it's decoys.
01:21:09.000 It may be I don't know what it is.
01:21:12.000 There's no way to deny that there's like a giant lump under the carpet.
01:21:17.000 And what prompted you to change your opinion and decide that there is some sort of a special access program?
01:21:24.000 When I started coming in contact with totally sober people from reasonable walks of life who would say the craziest things to me, and a lot of them checked and they didn't yet know each other.
01:21:36.000 Like what kind of crazy things?
01:21:37.000 Let me take somebody who's public.
01:21:39.000 Brandon Fugle, for example, was at a dinner where he started talking about being visited by a craft a few feet over his head that came over the Mesa, and his head of security was catatonic, standing in the back of a pickup truck, unable to move.
01:21:58.000 And it was just way too specific.
01:22:02.000 And a shared experience that multiple people had had.
01:22:08.000 Right.
01:22:09.000 And so, you know, the joke, of course, is that the secrets of Skinwalker rants or, you know, whatever this is.
01:22:17.000 There's real stuff going on there.
01:22:17.000 Right.
01:22:21.000 And there's nonsense, BS that the History Channel has packaged to come up with a salacious series.
01:22:28.000 And one is funding the other.
01:22:30.000 So, I don't know what that is, but like some of these injuries are real.
01:22:34.000 And, you know, injuries.
01:22:37.000 Yeah.
01:22:37.000 Like Gary Nolan talking about people reporting, you know, Gary Nolan told me a story that somebody had said that a ball of energy would come and enter the body and move around and then leave.
01:22:52.000 And he said, you know, the craziest thing is that when I inspected the tissue, there was a path of necrosis that can't be explained.
01:23:03.000 Like something that shows up on imaging.
01:23:06.000 And Gary's a really smart, serious guy.
01:23:13.000 I can check a lot of the things that he says scientifically.
01:23:16.000 Why would he say something like that?
01:23:18.000 I mean, I didn't see it myself, but.
01:23:20.000 Well, he's also done some very strange work on material science.
01:23:26.000 Right.
01:23:27.000 Where he's analyzed particles or little pieces of metal and alloys that have come from wreckages from the 1970s and 60s.
01:23:36.000 Yeah, that I don't know the Providence.
01:23:38.000 Like, he'll carry around a little thing and he'll show it to me.
01:23:41.000 I'll say, you know, there's no combination of materials and alloys that this matches that we know how to produce.
01:23:48.000 And I say, okay.
01:23:50.000 It doesn't mean anything to me.
01:23:52.000 Again, it's just, it's all.
01:23:53.000 I have no, at this point, I have no primary contact with anything anomalous.
01:24:01.000 I just have all sorts of secondary stuff.
01:24:03.000 And by the way, the thing that you saw with the Jesse Michaels in American Alchemy.
01:24:07.000 Boy, did that get a response inside the government, that particular episode.
01:24:14.000 How so?
01:24:15.000 I had a lot of people who had stopped talking to me about UFOs who suddenly, you know, I had like eight calls immediately after it aired.
01:24:26.000 Hey, Eric, just thought I'd catch up with you.
01:24:28.000 There was a huge discussion inside.
01:24:28.000 And I was like, oh, okay.
01:24:32.000 And the first, without getting into particulars, the first official outreach, like really official outreach, the checks in the wake of that episode.
01:24:44.000 And I'm not under any NDAs.
01:24:46.000 Nobody's told me anything.
01:24:48.000 That I can't discuss, but that may change.
01:24:52.000 One thing that's very clear to me is that when I hear something from many sources, I don't need to protect it anymore.
01:25:00.000 It's already out.
01:25:01.000 Okay.
01:25:03.000 I have now heard the White Sands story from many sources.
01:25:07.000 This is the one where the crafts hovered over the base, shut down the nuclear program.
01:25:14.000 Is that it?
01:25:17.000 I'm just going to say what I can say that's fuzzed out that can't be traced to anybody.
01:25:21.000 Okay.
01:25:24.000 I was very upset with this shutdown of the El Paso airspace.
01:25:30.000 That was recently.
01:25:31.000 Yeah.
01:25:32.000 It was supposed to be we had a problem with cartel drones.
01:25:35.000 Right.
01:25:35.000 I don't believe that.
01:25:37.000 I think Texas is another name for New Mexico. 0.96
01:25:39.000 I think El Paso is a name for White Sands.
01:25:43.000 Can we get a map of the United States that can focus on White Sands and El Paso?
01:25:50.000 I think we have a problem that we've lost control of our airspace.
01:25:55.000 You think this is part of what happened in New Jersey as well?
01:26:01.000 I can't say as much because what I know.
01:26:06.000 No.
01:26:07.000 What happened around New Jersey, I don't have from as many sources that I feel comfortable saying that this is fuzzed out.
01:26:15.000 I can fuzz out the El Paso story.
01:26:17.000 Nobody has told me that El Paso was shut down because of the problem at White Sands.
01:26:21.000 Okay.
01:26:23.000 People have said things about New Jersey that is.
01:26:26.000 All right.
01:26:27.000 So there's El Paso.
01:26:27.000 All right.
01:26:29.000 El Paso here, White Sands, right above it.
01:26:31.000 How far away is that?
01:26:32.000 My guess is about an hour.
01:26:34.000 By driving?
01:26:35.000 Yeah, let's see.
01:26:36.000 It's probably 60, 70, 80 miles at most.
01:26:39.000 Okay.
01:26:40.000 So I don't know what's going on, but my guess is.
01:26:48.000 So on Piers Morgan, I said this thing, which is that New Mexico is the connector of the nuclear story, the Epstein story, and the UFO story.
01:26:58.000 They're all going to come together.
01:27:08.000 Remember when we were only talking about the island?
01:27:11.000 Mm hmm.
01:27:16.000 Somehow, I think I was the first person to seize on this.
01:27:20.000 There's this thing that isn't an interview, which is Steve Bannon trying to train Jeffrey Epstein how to respond to rehabilitate it.
01:27:29.000 And if you can find this, this is.
01:27:30.000 I've seen it.
01:27:31.000 Okay.
01:27:31.000 It's very weird.
01:27:33.000 So he says.
01:27:38.000 You want to know about why I got Zorro Ranch in New Mexico?
01:27:43.000 Can we play this clip?
01:27:44.000 Can you find it?
01:27:46.000 I think Jesse repackaged it after I pointed it out.
01:27:54.000 But this is the story that, like, somehow we're so hung up about sex.
01:28:00.000 We're either angry about trafficking or we're getting off on the idea that all these rich people are going to get their comeuppance.
01:28:07.000 We keep turning the Epstein story into something other than a scientific espionage story.
01:28:12.000 Story, which is one of its facets.
01:28:15.000 It's one component.
01:28:16.000 It's one component.
01:28:18.000 Yeah.
01:28:18.000 But it doesn't excite us that this is a guy spying.
01:28:18.000 Right.
01:28:23.000 Control of science, Joe, is not something that is officially a big issue, and it is a massive issue.
01:28:32.000 It's not publicly a big issue.
01:28:33.000 That's correct.
01:28:34.000 And he clearly had a big interest.
01:28:34.000 Yeah.
01:28:38.000 So, why did I buy a ranch in New Mexico in 1993?
01:28:41.000 So, that gives you some sense.
01:28:43.000 So, I would have funded it in 1990.
01:28:47.000 Los Alamos, which was the high energy lab up in New Mexico, was losing all its scientists.
01:28:54.000 And Los Alamos, it was where Oppenheimer and where a lot of the nuclear weapons program, the bomb, the.
01:29:01.000 That's where the Manhattan Project.
01:29:02.000 Manhattan Project was.
01:29:03.000 As Los Alamos.
01:29:03.000 Yes.
01:29:05.000 And you bought your property out in New Mexico to be near that?
01:29:07.000 Yes, because the scientists were going to be.
01:29:09.000 They cut the funding for high energy physics.
01:29:13.000 But the people who worked in Los Alamos would still be in the Santa Fe area.
01:29:17.000 They cut that because the end of the, this was the Cold War dividend, right?
01:29:21.000 I don't remember exactly why.
01:29:22.000 It was because, again, people thought that physics and high-energy physics really wasn't that important.
01:29:27.000 Because that was about nuclear weapons?
01:29:29.000 No, it was because they were trying to, they decided, which may be not right, this was the same time that Murray Gell-Mann came up with the term quark, Q-U-A-R-K.
01:29:40.000 He picked it out of an old poem, the word quark.
01:29:43.000 But it was something, it was mysterious.
01:29:45.000 So they were starting to understand in the 90s that in our world of the physics world, There was things that were just unexplainable.
01:29:55.000 They called it strange things.
01:29:56.000 You gave it a name.
01:29:57.000 You gave it some characteristics.
01:29:59.000 You called it, it had charm, was one of the terms.
01:30:01.000 It had a charm.
01:30:02.000 It had a flavor.
01:30:03.000 It had a color.
01:30:05.000 But nobody really, no one, Mr. Bannon, understood what it was, just like the financial system.
01:30:13.000 And you wanted to investigate that?
01:30:16.000 I wanted to see if we could build tools so others smarter than me could help investigate it.
01:30:21.000 And that was the beginning of your concept of the Santa Fe Institute?
01:30:24.000 Yes.
01:30:25.000 And Santa Fe Institute was founded to do study in this type of.
01:30:29.000 Can you, can these areas of strange things be described by some form of mathematics?
01:30:38.000 Okay.
01:30:38.000 Now, what you're seeing there is fascinating.
01:30:43.000 Like, just take, by the way, very well isolated, exactly the bit that I wanted.
01:30:49.000 In that interview or that training, he claims to have founded the Santa Fe Institute.
01:30:54.000 Santa Fe Institute was founded, I think, in 1984, not 1990 or 1993.
01:31:00.000 Bannon clearly knows more about why these scientists were being defunded than does the person who buys this property.
01:31:11.000 Now, that property is not only close to Los Alamos, it's also close to Sandia National Laboratory. 1.00
01:31:18.000 What you like, people said to me, Eric, you said he was an idiot. 0.99
01:31:21.000 He's clearly very knowledgeable. 1.00
01:31:24.000 You can see there that you were wrong.
01:31:26.000 I was like, that is an actor.
01:31:30.000 That is not.
01:31:31.000 Anyone smart with proximity to Murray Gelman and others.
01:31:37.000 Like he knew Murray Gelman well.
01:31:40.000 Murray Gelman didn't name quarks in 1990.
01:31:45.000 That goes back to like the 60s when George Zwig called them aces and Gelman called them quarks for three quarks for Mustermark that came out of James Joyce.
01:31:53.000 So he's just repeating stuff that he doesn't understand.
01:31:58.000 And why did he buy the house, Zorro Ranch?
01:32:01.000 To be close to.
01:32:02.000 To the scientists whose funding was cut.
01:32:06.000 The people who make weapons and who do high energy physics, who had the rug pulled out from under them by the United States when they won the Cold War by putting this pressure on the Soviet Union. 1.00
01:32:19.000 Like, there's nothing more important than theoretical physicists, you idiots. 0.99
01:32:25.000 And you don't fund these people and you don't watch them. 1.00
01:32:28.000 Like, the Department of Energy is supposed to have counterintelligence to stop creeps.
01:32:34.000 From hanging around the National Labs, which is America's secret university system.
01:32:38.000 Hello.
01:32:41.000 And that's what he was doing.
01:32:48.000 He was buying a property to be close to the National Labs in New Mexico that make the weapons and that are in charge of trying to figure out the future.
01:32:58.000 So if you think about the National Labs as this parallel thing to the university system, but it's the secret part.
01:33:04.000 Or you have to be American and you have to have a security clearance and all this kind of stuff.
01:33:09.000 Epstein set up a listening post.
01:33:12.000 Now, what's the UFO story?
01:33:14.000 The UFO story is all about nukes.
01:33:18.000 And what was Epstein doing in Cambridge, Massachusetts?
01:33:21.000 The analog of Zorro Ranch is named One Braddles Square.
01:33:25.000 It's right in the heart of Harvard Square.
01:33:28.000 I know it like the back of my hand.
01:33:31.000 It's a seven minute walk to the Science Center.
01:33:34.000 The Harvard Science Center on floors three, four, and five.
01:33:39.000 Is where the math department is.
01:33:41.000 And who was Epstein's initial contact in the math department?
01:33:45.000 It wasn't Martin Nowak who he funded, it was a different guy named Benedict Gross.
01:33:52.000 Dick Gross was an expert in number theory and in elliptic curves.
01:33:57.000 And elliptic curves are what power the cryptography behind Bitcoin, behind public keys.
01:34:06.000 You're talking about a guy who was setting up listening posts.
01:34:11.000 Next to extremely sensitive stuff that we've stupidly left unprotected in the open university system or defunded in our national labs.
01:34:19.000 And when you say listing posts, like, what do you mean?
01:34:21.000 Bugs on the listing posts?
01:34:22.000 No, no, no.
01:34:22.000 He's going to hold.
01:34:24.000 He just remained in contact with these people?
01:34:24.000 No?
01:34:27.000 Joe, you've got real money.
01:34:29.000 Guys with real money use dinner.
01:34:32.000 Dinner is an incredible thing.
01:34:35.000 I watched Peter Thiel use dinner.
01:34:38.000 Fly people in for dinners.
01:34:40.000 You put people up in a nice hotel for three nights.
01:34:43.000 Serve them amazing food from a private chef.
01:34:45.000 You get a black car to collect them, and they'll tell you anything.
01:34:50.000 I don't mean that Peter was doing this in an evil way, but I watched dinner after dinner after dinner as people disgorged all they knew because they were so happy they're getting a $200 bottle of wine and being treated like humans, you know, like respected.
01:35:08.000 So, in part, you have to understand that dinner in and of itself, or a mansion, or a first class ticket, is all it takes to get people to start talking.
01:35:22.000 Jeffrey Epstein was CIA.
01:35:24.000 The communications network at Zorro Ranch proved it.
01:35:27.000 The DOJ's own file showed Epstein built a military grade encrypted link to satellite orbit at Zorro Ranch.
01:35:34.000 The contractor who built it now holds a Pentagon missile defense contract.
01:35:41.000 So remember?
01:35:41.000 I didn't know about that.
01:35:42.000 I just told my wife.
01:35:43.000 Jeffrey Epstein is a construct. 1.00
01:35:45.000 You know, there's this whole question about why won't Jews talk about Jeffrey Epstein and the sex shit? 1.00
01:35:50.000 It's like as if I haven't been on this since 2004. 1.00
01:35:55.000 Yeah, no one can accuse you of not talking about it. 0.98
01:35:58.000 If they can, they're just being ignorant. 1.00
01:36:00.000 No, they're being a bitch because it used to be super dangerous. 0.99
01:36:05.000 This was like one of the really costly things. 1.00
01:36:07.000 So, what do you think that was, though?
01:36:09.000 This satellite encrypted.
01:36:14.000 All right, let's go there, but I'm a little bit nervous.
01:36:19.000 Why was Jeffrey Epstein able to get all of these people much richer than him into his orbit?
01:36:26.000 That's the question you should be asking.
01:36:31.000 So here's my theory.
01:36:32.000 Okay.
01:36:36.000 Just be careful.
01:36:38.000 Okay.
01:36:40.000 What happens when you become a billionaire?
01:36:43.000 I don't know.
01:36:44.000 Not there.
01:36:45.000 Nowhere close.
01:36:48.000 What happens is that you find out that it's not what you thought it was.
01:36:52.000 First of all, you now have staff everywhere.
01:36:56.000 You can't move around easily because you need a security detail.
01:37:00.000 When I first met Peter Thiel, I said, Wow, your security detail on this beach is amazing.
01:37:06.000 I can't even tell where they are.
01:37:07.000 He says, Am I supposed to have a security detail?
01:37:10.000 Peter, you've got to be kidding.
01:37:11.000 Now he's got one.
01:37:14.000 So the first thing is that you find you lose your privacy, you lose your freedom of movement, you've got a retinue of people who have to be constantly maintained.
01:37:21.000 They're under your roof.
01:37:23.000 You're like, This isn't what I signed up for.
01:37:25.000 I wanted to be rich.
01:37:26.000 You're like, Well, you are rich, you can buy things.
01:37:29.000 Well, you can't buy privacy.
01:37:30.000 You can't buy freedom.
01:37:31.000 You can't buy anonymity, all these things that you want.
01:37:35.000 And you can't buy the ability to do fun, naughty stuff.
01:37:39.000 I'm not talking about little kids.
01:37:41.000 I'm saying, like, if you're going to take drugs, you're at risk of having everybody want to tell the story.
01:37:47.000 If you want to have a menage, you're at the same risk.
01:37:51.000 So the question becomes what do I do to get what I thought I was going to do, which is the right to have freedom over my own life and to misbehave in fun ways, whatever?
01:38:04.000 Nobody can figure out how to do it.
01:38:05.000 Jeffrey Epstein could do it.
01:38:07.000 Now, why is it that he could do it?
01:38:10.000 Who's spoken to the contractors who built his island?
01:38:14.000 It's the most obvious thing to do.
01:38:15.000 If I was an investigative journalist, that's what I'd do.
01:38:17.000 I'd talk to the plumbers, the maids, all of the people who are just working for a living.
01:38:26.000 Those are the people who constantly leak information about their employers.
01:38:32.000 Well, who's the only person who has the ability to build something?
01:38:39.000 The CIA has its own construction company.
01:38:46.000 Sovereigns, countries, nations have the ability to do stuff where they know how to keep things under wraps. 0.95
01:38:54.000 If you think about S4, I guarantee you there's a men's room at S4. 0.99
01:39:00.000 Well, who cleans it? 1.00
01:39:03.000 That's a really important question because that's the weak link.
01:39:07.000 And so rich people haven't figured out how to be rich.
01:39:13.000 That's what everybody was attracted to in that upper income bracket.
01:39:17.000 That he would provide them with experiences.
01:39:19.000 He would provide them with things that they couldn't figure out how anybody could provide because they were dealing with a state.
01:39:30.000 I assure you that the Sultan of Brunei knows how to do stuff because he's both an individual and a state.
01:39:41.000 Most of us.
01:39:43.000 Are either in this sort of black ops world or we're dreaming about being very rich or just normal human beings.
01:39:57.000 The very rich are very disappointed.
01:40:00.000 Epstein felt rich, as I said before, in a movie sense.
01:40:05.000 He had freedom, he could say and do things that other people couldn't.
01:40:13.000 You know, Elon.
01:40:15.000 Is constantly tripping over the fact that I think he's a wild guy.
01:40:21.000 I'm up for wild guys.
01:40:23.000 I want cowboy billionaires, cowboy physicists, cowboy everything.
01:40:27.000 But in general, we don't want cowboys.
01:40:30.000 And, you know, again, this has nothing to do with little kids.
01:40:33.000 That's a different thing.
01:40:34.000 Right.
01:40:36.000 But if you want to go take drugs, take drugs.
01:40:40.000 If you want to have a menage, have a menage.
01:40:41.000 Fine.
01:40:43.000 I don't want to hear about it.
01:40:45.000 Don't spill the tea. 0.94
01:40:46.000 I can't stand this culture.
01:40:49.000 Epstein knew how to keep quiet stuff quiet.
01:40:51.000 And why is that?
01:40:52.000 His product, as I've said before, was silence.
01:40:55.000 If you want a really dangerous question, ask the question Did the people who were in his direct orbit have an unusually high number of disappearances around them?
01:41:10.000 Did they?
01:41:11.000 I don't know.
01:41:13.000 But it's a dangerous question.
01:41:14.000 I've never investigated it.
01:41:16.000 Have you ever seen?
01:41:17.000 Everybody talks about eyes wide shut now.
01:41:20.000 You notice that nobody talks about crimes and misdemeanors?
01:41:23.000 Where Woody Allen was directly in his orbit.
01:41:27.000 God, I don't even know if I've seen that movie.
01:41:29.000 There is a scene where Martin Landau and Jerry Orbach's characters are a pair of brothers.
01:41:35.000 I think that they only meet on screen once. 0.68
01:41:39.000 And Martin Landau is having an affair, and the woman has decided that she has rights.
01:41:45.000 And Martin Landau is a very wealthy ophthalmologist or something like that. 0.73
01:41:50.000 And he has a brother who's a Starker.
01:41:54.000 Starker being the Yiddish word for a tough guy.
01:41:58.000 And it's one of the most.
01:42:01.000 Can we find Jerry Orbach, Martin Landau, crimes and misdemeanors?
01:42:06.000 It's the most blood curdling.
01:42:08.000 So well done.
01:42:10.000 The scene description, though, you didn't really get to it.
01:42:13.000 Well, they're only in one scene together.
01:42:15.000 They'll be at a.
01:42:17.000 I haven't seen it in ages, but my memory is that they're at a house walking around a pool, and then they walk inside to the pool house.
01:42:26.000 And there's a resentment that the brother who's in the life is only called to the house occasionally.
01:42:37.000 Right?
01:42:38.000 And it's this way in which the genteel and the people who can get things done that you're not allowed to do within the law are connected.
01:42:46.000 And so Woody Allen is clearly writing this from personal experience. 0.87
01:42:49.000 He has some interaction between being in high society and knowing Starkers. 0.97
01:42:59.000 And I actually knew Woody Allen's old producer, who is the father of a friend of mine, a guy named Jack Grossberg. 0.90
01:43:09.000 And Jack Grossberg was an epitome of a tough Jew in Hollywood who would deal with the Teamsters or when there was a labor dispute. 0.93
01:43:17.000 And, you know, he wasn't in the life, but he was a guy who could stare down a mafioso. 0.96
01:43:24.000 I think that in part Woody Allen is writing about what Jeffrey Epstein was providing, which was a measure of silence.
01:43:30.000 Is this it?
01:43:31.000 I don't know.
01:43:31.000 No, no, no.
01:43:31.000 Okay.
01:43:34.000 No, we're looking for Martin Landau and Jerry Orbach in Crimes and Misdemeanors.
01:43:47.000 Yeah, that's gonna be hard to find because it's, uh.
01:43:49.000 Oh, that one.
01:43:50.000 Yep.
01:43:51.000 Okay.
01:43:55.000 I think that this is the scene that nobody's talking about.
01:43:58.000 I don't know, but she's killing me.
01:44:00.000 Good. 0.51
01:44:01.000 Want me to have somebody talk to her?
01:44:04.000 Like what? 1.00
01:44:05.000 Straighten her out.
01:44:08.000 What do you mean, threaten her?
01:44:09.000 That's all I need.
01:44:11.000 How else do you expect to keep her quiet?
01:44:12.000 Can you turn that up?
01:44:13.000 That's as long as I can get it, unfortunately.
01:44:13.000 I don't.
01:44:15.000 Okay.
01:44:18.000 Well.
01:44:20.000 Price, Jack, why did you suggest.
01:44:23.000 What did you call me for?
01:44:26.000 I don't know.
01:44:26.000 I hoped you'd have more experience with something like this.
01:44:31.000 You called me because you needed some dirty work done.
01:44:33.000 That's all you ever call for. 0.59
01:44:34.000 Look how bitter you are.
01:44:41.000 You've staked me plenty of times.
01:44:43.000 I don't forget my obligations.
01:44:46.000 Threatening will only make it worse, Jack.
01:44:49.000 Okay, forget about it.
01:44:51.000 What do you want me to say?
01:44:52.000 How the hell can I forget about it?
01:44:54.000 I'm fighting for my life. 1.00
01:44:56.000 This woman's going to destroy everything I've built. 1.00
01:44:59.000 That's what I'm saying, Judah. 1.00
01:45:01.000 If the woman won't listen to reason, then you go on to the next step. 1.00
01:45:05.000 What? 1.00
01:45:05.000 Threats? 1.00
01:45:06.000 What are we talking about here?
01:45:06.000 Violence?
01:45:08.000 She can be gotten rid of. 1.00
01:45:09.000 I mean, I know a lot of people. 1.00
01:45:11.000 Money will buy whatever's necessary.
01:45:12.000 I'm not even going to comment on that.
01:45:13.000 That's mind boggling.
01:45:15.000 Well, what did you want me to do when you called me?
01:45:17.000 Not to do dirty work, despite what you think.
01:45:22.000 I think we have.
01:45:23.000 It's gone beyond just Miriam now.
01:45:26.000 She's talking financial doings.
01:45:30.000 I'm out of ideas.
01:45:31.000 I don't know what I expected from you, Jack, but.
01:45:35.000 You know, you're not aware of what goes on in this world.
01:45:39.000 I mean, you sit up here with your foray.
01:45:40.000 Don't give me a hint.
01:45:41.000 And your country club.
01:45:42.000 I want to hear about myself.
01:45:43.000 And your rich friends.
01:45:44.000 And out there in the real world, it's a whole different story.
01:45:46.000 Come on.
01:45:48.000 I've met a lot of characters from when I had the restaurant.
01:45:50.000 I know I have.
01:45:50.000 I've heard these stories before.
01:45:51.000 From 7th Avenue, from Atlantic City.
01:45:54.000 And I'm not so high class that I can avoid looking at realities.
01:45:57.000 I can't afford to be aloof.
01:46:00.000 When you come to me with a hell of a problem, and then you get high handed on me.
01:46:06.000 Jack, I don't mean to be high handed.
01:46:07.000 I haven't been sleeping nights.
01:46:08.000 I'm irritable, okay?
01:46:10.000 Okay, okay.
01:46:11.000 Forget I said anything.
01:46:17.000 Let me just get something straight here.
01:46:21.000 Am I understanding you right?
01:46:22.000 I mean, are you suggesting getting rid of her?
01:46:28.000 You won't be involved, but I'll need some cash.
01:46:36.000 What will they do?
01:46:39.000 What'll they do?
01:46:40.000 They'll handle it.
01:46:44.000 I can't believe I'm talking about a human being, Jack.
01:46:47.000 She's not an insect you don't just step on.
01:46:52.000 I know.
01:46:53.000 Playing hardball was never your game.
01:46:56.000 You never liked to get your hands dirty. 1.00
01:46:58.000 But apparently, this woman is for real.
01:47:01.000 And this thing isn't just going to go away. 0.55
01:47:06.000 I can't do it.
01:47:09.000 I can't think that way.
01:47:23.000 So while everybody's watching Kubrick, this is a guy in Epstein's direct orbit.
01:47:28.000 This is what Epstein was.
01:47:30.000 He was a Starker.
01:47:33.000 He was a science spy.
01:47:34.000 He was a Starker.
01:47:35.000 He had buttons.
01:47:37.000 We're just all pretending like we have no memory of this, no idea about how we're all connected, how the highest in society are connected to the people who get things done.
01:47:49.000 And blackmail.
01:47:51.000 Blackmail is a lot like we're over indexed on.
01:47:55.000 In my opinion, again, who am I?
01:47:57.000 I'm just a guest.
01:47:58.000 But this is this assumption.
01:48:00.000 Well, I was very early saying he was a construct when nobody would listen.
01:48:06.000 Here's the next piece of it I think he had buttons, he had button men at his control.
01:48:13.000 He made problems disappear, things went away.
01:48:17.000 That's how you make sure that you have the experience of being a king rather than a billionaire.
01:48:24.000 The billionaires had more money than him.
01:48:28.000 But they didn't have the ability to make their problems go away.
01:48:32.000 And by the way, they're not suggesting that all the people in his orbit were availing themselves of this as a service.
01:48:39.000 But if I was a competent investigator, I would be talking to Woody Allen and saying, What did you mean by that scene?
01:48:51.000 Because you think that scene is directly connected to Woody Allen's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.
01:48:51.000 Look.
01:48:56.000 No, I think that that scene is directly connected.
01:48:59.000 To the connection between Hollywood and Teamsters and unions and organized crime.
01:49:06.000 There are people who know how to make things happen that aren't within the law.
01:49:11.000 What is the mafia?
01:49:11.000 We go, we watch all these mafia pictures, right?
01:49:16.000 The mafia is about contract enforcement when you can't use the courts.
01:49:20.000 That doesn't sound like what the mafia is, but that's what it is.
01:49:23.000 It's a business.
01:49:25.000 What happens when you're in an illegal business and you can't enforce a contract?
01:49:32.000 Right?
01:49:33.000 Yeah. 0.66
01:49:33.000 You have to use muscle. 0.66
01:49:35.000 So we use genteel, like he says, she can be taught. 0.81
01:49:39.000 You want me to talk to her?
01:49:43.000 We can handle it. 1.00
01:49:46.000 This is the genteel language of roughing somebody up, killing somebody, and making problems go away.
01:49:58.000 So the mafia is about business, it's not about violence.
01:50:05.000 Okay, so his connection to scientists, though, was the purpose of that?
01:50:10.000 We don't know, but I keep saying.
01:50:11.000 What's your assumption?
01:50:12.000 My assumption is that he was a clearinghouse, that somebody set him up at fair expense.
01:50:20.000 I'm going to say nine figure expense.
01:50:23.000 So I think this was a nine figure fortune, hundreds of millions.
01:50:27.000 And what it had was it had the trappings of multi billionaire, it had trillionaire.
01:50:38.000 Written all over it for a nine figure fortune.
01:50:40.000 So it's orders of magnitude off of what it was.
01:50:43.000 And I believe that that was only possible because there was a collection of sovereigns behind him.
01:50:51.000 I don't think it was one nation, I think it was a bunch of countries.
01:50:55.000 And the most obvious country is not Israel, it's the US because he was operating on US soil.
01:51:01.000 Do I think Israel was involved?
01:51:03.000 Do I think that the UK was involved?
01:51:03.000 Certainly.
01:51:06.000 I do.
01:51:07.000 Saudi Arabia, I do.
01:51:10.000 I think that this was a massive piece of structure confused with a sex scandal and a blackmail operation.
01:51:17.000 We're all sort of taking the bait.
01:51:20.000 So the sex scandal and all the sex stuff was sort of to keep people happy and give people a place to go to where they could have these experiences.
01:51:29.000 If you're dealing with physicists or some high end scientist guy, they don't have access to this.
01:51:36.000 They probably never been with a beautiful woman in their life.
01:51:39.000 All of a sudden they're hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein. 1.00
01:51:41.000 I'm not talking about you, bitch. 1.00
01:51:42.000 No, I'm not talking about me either. 1.00
01:51:43.000 I'm sure you're fine.
01:51:44.000 Ain't talking about love.
01:51:45.000 But let's be realistic.
01:51:47.000 Most of these guys aren't, they're not hot, right?
01:51:50.000 And then all of a sudden they're around tens who are giving them back massages.
01:51:53.000 And drugs are being used, and there's this feeling of anonymity, of safety.
01:52:00.000 Everybody else is doing it.
01:52:00.000 You can get away with this.
01:52:01.000 It's been going on for decades.
01:52:03.000 It's fine.
01:52:04.000 This is the place you go.
01:52:05.000 And it's fun, and they look forward to it.
01:52:07.000 And they probably also do have intellectual discussions because you are surrounded by.
01:52:11.000 Who wouldn't want in?
01:52:13.000 Right.
01:52:14.000 Right.
01:52:14.000 And so that's how he ropes you in.
01:52:16.000 That's right.
01:52:16.000 So, what is his why scientists?
01:52:19.000 And what would be the benefit of having access to these scientists and having this place on Zorro Ranch and being able to talk to these people?
01:52:27.000 Think about it from the perspective of who is doing the constructing rather than the constructed.
01:52:33.000 So he's the construct. 1.00
01:52:35.000 He's an incompetent. 0.99
01:52:37.000 He just lied to Steve Bannon. 1.00
01:52:39.000 You see him touch his face, classic tell of lying.
01:52:43.000 Touching your face is a classic tell of lying?
01:52:45.000 If you looked at what he just did.
01:52:46.000 The way he did, yeah, yeah.
01:52:47.000 100%.
01:52:48.000 So he's lying about the information or he's lying about his depth of knowledge?
01:52:53.000 Yes, he's lying about his depth of knowledge. 0.99
01:52:53.000 He's a liar. 0.99
01:52:55.000 Okay. 1.00
01:52:55.000 So how did I know he was a construct? 1.00
01:52:57.000 In part, one of the things, like they're dumb tells that we give away. 0.94
01:53:00.000 One of his was he was supposed to be a currency trader. 0.93
01:53:04.000 And when we say we're trading currency, we're not trading currency.
01:53:07.000 We're trading what are called spot contracts that are to be settled with an exchange of currency in two days' time.
01:53:13.000 Right?
01:53:13.000 So, in other words, if I do a euro trade, it's really a dollar euro trade, and you and I are going to trade dollars for euros, and we agree to do it in two days' time.
01:53:22.000 And then if you want to keep the position on, you exchange that contract for a contract that will follow to erase that contract and form a new contract which pushes it out two days.
01:53:32.000 You call that rolling things over.
01:53:33.000 He didn't know that Dollar Canada was on a one day contract rather than a two day contract where everything else.
01:53:33.000 Okay.
01:53:40.000 So, in other words, there was an anomaly.
01:53:42.000 And anybody in currency trading would have known that.
01:53:46.000 Or I forget whether he didn't know that trading pounds for dollars is called cable in the business. 0.97
01:53:53.000 So, there were just dumb tells that he didn't know about foreign exchange. 0.95
01:53:58.000 Yeah. 0.91
01:53:59.000 So, you know, he's claiming to be an FX hedge fund manager to me. 1.00
01:54:05.000 And there were stupid tells like that. 1.00
01:54:07.000 Right. 1.00
01:54:07.000 And then he knows way too much about my exactly particular specialty in mathematics. 1.00
01:54:13.000 Like, the number of people it could come from would be five or fewer.
01:54:22.000 So, technically, what I did my thesis on is something called self dual Yang Mills theory, which is about every force other than gravity is a Yang Mills force.
01:54:34.000 Except my thesis was really about gravity.
01:54:36.000 And I didn't disclose it, and only people very, very close to me knew that that's what it was about.
01:54:42.000 He was obsessed with gravity.
01:54:44.000 And he shows up, I think, in the Harvard math department in 2002 with Dick Gross.
01:54:51.000 And clearly, he was talking to people in the Cambridge mathematical physics world who would have been, you know, there's something called the Chern Simons theory, which is.
01:55:07.000 Mistakenly associated closely with Yang Mills theory, but is really all about gravity.
01:55:13.000 Really, all about gravity.
01:55:16.000 And that my work really shows that there is a parent theory that has Chern Simons theory and gravity as its two consequences.
01:55:25.000 He knows about that without knowing anything about the structure and the subject matter.
01:55:30.000 He knows about the history of my stuff and something called Cyberg Witten theory.
01:55:35.000 He doesn't know anything concrete.
01:55:37.000 How does he know all this stuff?
01:55:40.000 He was in my world.
01:55:43.000 And he was very focused, you know, on.
01:55:46.000 I met him through Jess Staley.
01:55:50.000 Who was at JP Morgan.
01:55:53.000 Now, Jeff Staley is deeply implicated in this.
01:55:55.000 I didn't know that at the time.
01:55:58.000 And Jeff Epstein has been mirroring my entire life, everything that I do.
01:56:05.000 And I became well known when I was writing these essays for Edge.org, and he was in with John Brockman at the Brockman Literary Agency.
01:56:14.000 When I got married, the rabbi came from Harvard Hillel, which was a building now called Rosofsky Hall, which he put together with Les Wexner's money.
01:56:24.000 He was funding probably the conference at the Perimeter Institute that we did on the financial crisis.
01:56:31.000 At every turn in my life since I was a young man, Jeffrey Epstein was there in the background, even though I only meet him once.
01:56:40.000 Why do you think that is?
01:56:42.000 Because we're interested in the exact same thing.
01:56:44.000 And what is that?
01:56:47.000 The most powerful stuff in the universe.
01:56:49.000 Why is he interested in that?
01:56:51.000 If he doesn't know the social.
01:56:52.000 What do I care about?
01:56:53.000 I care about finance and financial markets, I care about the CPI. 0.73
01:56:57.000 I care about the fate of Israel.
01:56:58.000 I care about evolutionary theory.
01:57:01.000 I care about mathematics that goes like geometry, like the geometry of elliptic curves, but really more in differential geometry.
01:57:10.000 I care about physics.
01:57:12.000 Every time that I care, and I care about the world's smartest people at a functional level, not the people with the highest IQ, but the people who are irreverent enough to actually move the needle.
01:57:25.000 So he and I were just.
01:57:29.000 We're interested in where's the action, where's the high end intellectual action in the world that actually moves things.
01:57:38.000 And, you know, quite frankly, he was meeting in my offices in San Francisco while I wasn't aware of it in 2017.
01:57:49.000 I didn't know that.
01:57:51.000 Meeting in your offices?
01:57:52.000 Yeah.
01:57:53.000 He went to your office and met with who?
01:57:56.000 With Peter, that's in the records.
01:57:58.000 About you?
01:57:59.000 No, I don't know.
01:58:01.000 I know that I'm in an email that he sends Peter late in the story, but I'm not going to discuss specifics.
01:58:01.000 Hopefully not.
01:58:08.000 But no, I was telling Peter not to deal with him, and Peter thought I was overblowing the danger.
01:58:16.000 He scared me because I know what element he came from.
01:58:26.000 That was not a refined person, that was a scary, scary person.
01:58:31.000 That was a person who came. 0.99
01:58:34.000 You know, like the Hesh character on The Sopranos? 1.00
01:58:37.000 Mm hmm.
01:58:40.000 Or Mo Green in The Godfather?
01:58:43.000 Yeah.
01:58:44.000 That's that element.
01:58:47.000 And you recognize that immediately.
01:58:50.000 That was my point in bringing up crimes and misdemeanors.
01:58:53.000 It's not like I don't know people.
01:58:56.000 I understand all this, but what do you think his purpose was?
01:59:00.000 So, getting connected to all these scientists, being around all this knowledge, the New Mexico, I still don't understand.
01:59:06.000 Like, what was the end game?
01:59:07.000 Can I get another drink?
01:59:08.000 Absolutely.
01:59:09.000 Thank you, sir.
01:59:10.000 Can I share this article with you?
01:59:11.000 Please do.
01:59:12.000 Okay.
01:59:12.000 This was the one I just pulled up a second ago.
01:59:15.000 If we could get another ice cube, too, that would be great.
01:59:17.000 Watch this.
01:59:19.000 Jeff, can you get us an ice cube, please?
01:59:21.000 I would just down here, this is a long article.
01:59:24.000 I believe most of this comes from the Epstein files that came out on the DOJ's website.
01:59:30.000 The woman who wrote this, she's a former Boston Globe and New York Times reporter, also LA Times.
01:59:37.000 The summary here is what I was kind of getting at because it's two or three paragraphs, but it explains a lot of what you're asking.
01:59:46.000 Standard framing of Jeffrey Epstein as a Mossad asset is well supported.
01:59:49.000 Robert Maxwell, Ghulain's father, sold Israel backdoored Promise software to Sandia National Laboratories in 1985.
01:59:57.000 His eldest daughter, Christine Maxwell, built the FBI's post 9 11 counterterrorism data warehouse through her company, Chiliad.
02:00:06.000 Isabel Maxwell, Christine's twin sister, co founded Calm Touch with Israel Unit 8,200 alumni.
02:00:14.000 Ghulain ran the human intelligence operation, the Israel Intelligence Network, around both Maxwell and Epstein, is documented and substantial.
02:00:23.000 But the intelligence infrastructure supporting Epstein and Maxwell at Zorro Ranch points somewhere else or to somewhere additional.
02:00:31.000 It points to the United States military intelligence, plain and simple.
02:00:35.000 The contractor who built his encrypted link to orbit is American, headquartered in Georgia, and now holds a Missile Defense Agency contract.
02:00:42.000 The satellite uplink was authorized by an American FCC license.
02:00:47.000 The project was managed out of New York office.
02:00:49.000 The man who recruited Epstein as a child served in the American OSS, and his own son was in charge of the Federal Justice Department when Epstein died or didn't in its custody.
02:01:03.000 The man whose ranch provided the ideal relay point was OSS, built American missile guidance systems and military drones.
02:01:11.000 And just up the road, another former OSS guy, Carl Ingwer, sold his New Mexico ranch to the strangest duo of all time.
02:01:19.000 Donald Rumsfeld and Dan Rather.
02:01:23.000 Hmm.
02:01:24.000 So, this is what I've been trying to say all along.
02:01:27.000 The only country that I'm absolutely positive is behind Jeffrey Epstein is us.
02:01:33.000 You can't operate here.
02:01:37.000 Look, right now we are in the middle of endless anti Semitic Christmas, it just goes on forever. 0.95
02:01:45.000 And you can.
02:01:50.000 You look at Jeffrey Epstein, I have no question he was directly connected to Israel, you know?
02:01:57.000 But first and foremost, I believe that he, and I hate when we use the word asset.
02:02:05.000 You should use a vaguer word because those technical things, like who's an agent, who's an operator, agent is a word used differently by the FBI and CIA.
02:02:17.000 Every time we try to sound like we're cool, like we know what the intelligence community actually is, We make mistakes because we say something that becomes deniable.
02:02:27.000 You know, so like there's a concept of knock, non official cover.
02:02:32.000 You know, if you say somebody, you know, is a knock and you guess the wrong distinction, they can say, no, he wasn't.
02:02:39.000 Was he an asset?
02:02:40.000 I'm sure that has a technical meaning.
02:02:42.000 You don't mean it technically.
02:02:45.000 You mean, was he in any way affiliated with the intelligence community?
02:02:49.000 And it's not just the intelligence community.
02:02:52.000 One of the ways that the intelligence community functions as a As a cover for the special operations community.
02:02:59.000 Covert operations is something the CIA does through Ground Branch that is not intelligence.
02:03:07.000 So we call it intelligence and we give them a free pass all the time.
02:03:11.000 No, those are the guys who do the wet work.
02:03:14.000 That's a paramilitary organization.
02:03:19.000 Right.
02:03:20.000 So, my claim is that Epstein is a major piece of structure, having nothing to do with the actor that they hired.
02:03:30.000 Okay, so you think Epstein is essentially just a construct figurehead of an intelligence gathering organization?
02:03:38.000 No.
02:03:39.000 No?
02:03:40.000 Epstein is a construct, first of all.
02:03:43.000 Second of all, there are.
02:03:45.000 Is an intelligence part of the intelligence community, and there's a covert operations part of the intelligence community.
02:03:54.000 Covert operations is not intelligence.
02:03:56.000 I know it's under that roof.
02:03:58.000 That is totally wrong.
02:03:59.000 Got it.
02:04:00.000 Right.
02:04:01.000 So if you want bad things to happen to somebody, you don't call intelligence because that's just human intelligence or signals intelligence or whatever.
02:04:08.000 You're not going to call a cryptographer to make a problem go away.
02:04:13.000 Right.
02:04:14.000 What does this have to do with the science community?
02:04:19.000 We have huge amounts of power.
02:04:24.000 The United States is terribly configured because we pretend that we're okay doing everything through our university system, which shouldn't be done in an open setting.
02:04:35.000 You have to be honest about the fact that we're badly configured.
02:04:38.000 What do you mean by that?
02:04:39.000 We didn't know how deadly physics was.
02:04:42.000 When Rutherford in 1911 said that there's a neutron, I'm sure nobody said to him, Oh my God, you've ended the plan.
02:04:51.000 Now, new humanity is doomed.
02:04:53.000 So, it used to be the case that physics was something that was like interesting and fun.
02:04:58.000 But now it's like the most deadly thing you can imagine, as well as being interesting.
02:05:01.000 In a quick timeline, too, if you stop and think about that.
02:05:03.000 Yeah.
02:05:03.000 41 years.
02:05:04.000 So, literally.
02:05:04.000 41 years.
02:05:05.000 So, my claim is that we are walking around right now with all of these extremely deadly ninja priests in our physics departments, in our math departments, who don't even know that they're deadly ninja priests.
02:05:23.000 They've never worked on something classified. 0.68
02:05:26.000 They've never solved problems for our government.
02:05:28.000 But in part, we fund our scientists as part of a complex cryptic arrangement worked out by Vannevar Bush that is now remembered by essentially no one. 0.87
02:05:39.000 So the idea is you people, Teller, Ulam, Feynman, Oppenheimer, von Neumann, you are DevGru.
02:05:51.000 You're SEAL Team 6 of the human mind.
02:05:55.000 You're Delta.
02:05:56.000 And most of the time, you're going to teach classes.
02:06:01.000 You know, it's like Indiana Jones, you know, an archaeologist with a bow tie, and then he's running around with a whip and, you know, killing people.
02:06:10.000 Okay.
02:06:10.000 Right.
02:06:11.000 That's what physicists and mathematicians are.
02:06:14.000 That's why we're funded.
02:06:17.000 That's why the Department of Energy funds physics.
02:06:20.000 It's not the Department of Energy, it's the Department of Nuclear Weapons.
02:06:23.000 It's the Department of Physics.
02:06:25.000 So they let the physics people work out all these problems, and then they take.
02:06:30.000 Whatever their findings are and apply them to weapons.
02:06:33.000 Boom, vroom, and zoom.
02:06:35.000 And that changed the economy.
02:06:37.000 It changes the ability to compute.
02:06:39.000 This is who I really am.
02:06:45.000 This is what I really do.
02:06:46.000 And I will not mouth this narrative that all of my colleagues will mouth.
02:06:51.000 Physics is interesting.
02:06:53.000 Yeah, a lot of the time it's dull.
02:06:55.000 Physics is international.
02:06:59.000 Oh, really?
02:06:59.000 Why do you think the American taxpayers are funding this international effort?
02:07:03.000 Just to educate Chinese.
02:07:05.000 To educate Chinese? 1.00
02:07:07.000 For all I know, we're trying to sterilize the Chinese and the Indians with string theory. 1.00
02:07:12.000 So, because nobody's talked to me about this, I can speak freely. 1.00
02:07:17.000 But if you ask me, the Indians are some of the most aggressive string theorists on earth. 1.00
02:07:22.000 And my question is do we import them in such large numbers so that they'll go home and be ineffectual? 1.00
02:07:32.000 That's crazy.
02:07:32.000 So, that's a real possibility that string theory exists as a distraction.
02:07:39.000 Joe, what do you think the odds are that a scientist can say, my failed theory is the only game in town and not get laughed out of town?
02:07:49.000 Not so good.
02:07:50.000 Yeah.
02:07:51.000 I would imagine in a free thinking world, not so good. 1.00
02:07:53.000 In a free thinking world, I would say, Ed Whitten, you're full of shit. 1.00
02:07:57.000 Who talks like that? 0.99
02:07:59.000 You're the smartest person I've ever met, and you have not earned the right to say that your failed theory, your disaster of a catastrophe of a theory, Is the most failed theory in history in physics, and you're saying it's the only game in town?
02:08:14.000 Who died and left you king, sir?
02:08:17.000 I want to bring you to one of the weirdest theories that you have.
02:08:19.000 All right.
02:08:20.000 Which is you talked about this very overly supported physics department in this upstate university, upstate New York University, that's attached to a hedge fund.
02:08:33.000 SUNY Stony Brooks mathematics department and physics department.
02:08:38.000 Yeah.
02:08:38.000 Yeah.
02:08:39.000 This is a weird one.
02:08:40.000 Because it's attached to a hedge fund that does Bernie Madoff type numbers.
02:08:40.000 All right.
02:08:44.000 Bernie Madoff is a loser piker. 0.99
02:08:50.000 Joe, Bernie Madoff was regular, and that's why they called him the Jewish T Bill. 0.99
02:08:56.000 T Bill? 0.87
02:08:56.000 Yeah. 0.87
02:08:56.000 It's a T Bill. 0.87
02:08:57.000 A treasury security that allowed you to just earn some very boring, very high rate of return where you were supposedly having your money at risk, but you essentially never lost.
02:09:09.000 There were like almost no down months.
02:09:12.000 Renaissance technologies.
02:09:14.000 Is like, no, no, no.
02:09:17.000 Hold my beer.
02:09:18.000 We're just going to make numbers like nobody's ever made in human history.
02:09:21.000 There's nobody in second or third place relative to Renaissance Technology Medallion Fund.
02:09:26.000 And how is it connected to this university?
02:09:29.000 And what do you think is going on up there?
02:09:34.000 One, I don't know.
02:09:36.000 But something weird.
02:09:38.000 It's weird as hell.
02:09:41.000 I knew Jim Simons personally.
02:09:44.000 Jim Simons is a genius.
02:09:49.000 But a lot of other people are geniuses.
02:09:52.000 I hate to say it, but you can't swing a cat in my world without hitting a genius.
02:09:57.000 So he was great.
02:10:00.000 But he wasn't that much smarter than every other genius at that level.
02:10:07.000 So I would say, you know, top hundred minds in mathematics and physics, clearly better than that.
02:10:18.000 Jim started off working for the DIA, the Defense Intelligence Unit.
02:10:26.000 Supposedly quit out of outrage over Vietnam, becomes the super young chairman of the SUNY Stony Brook mathematics department, holds a lunch seminar with a guy who will become the world's smartest living physicist, a guy named CN Yang.
02:10:48.000 And they discover over lunch a connection between differential geometry, Jim's.
02:10:54.000 Specialty and Xi and Yang's specialty, which is the standard model.
02:11:01.000 Jim then quits, forms a hedge fund long before it's cool with the father of another guest of yours on this program, Brian Keating.
02:11:16.000 And the two of them both have medals, so they call it medallion because they've won prizes.
02:11:22.000 So, what's his name?
02:11:23.000 James Axe, not Keating.
02:11:27.000 And the two of them start this thing, and it takes off at some level that nobody's ever seen numbers before.
02:11:33.000 And then they institute this policy, which is we're not going to hire financial experts.
02:11:38.000 We're only going to hire math, physics people.
02:11:42.000 So we're going to hire geometers, we're going to hire particle theorists, general relativists, and machine learning people.
02:11:49.000 It's like, who came up with this story?
02:11:54.000 Do you buy this story?
02:11:57.000 This is so strange because it sort of also mirrors a second story that was not associated with Brookhaven, which is the national lab near SUNY Stony Brook, but associated with Los Alamos, which is a story called The Prediction Company.
02:12:11.000 Except in that case, the name of the person isn't Jim Simons, it's Doyne Farmer.
02:12:17.000 And The Prediction Company is the analog of Renaissance.
02:12:20.000 So what you see is that once people have a pattern, it seems like these patterns repeat.
02:12:26.000 So my point is.
02:12:28.000 If you ask the question, do we have a Manhattan project in the current era?
02:12:33.000 We don't know.
02:12:34.000 I don't know.
02:12:34.000 You don't know.
02:12:36.000 But if we're allowed to speculate, the question would be, where would it be located?
02:12:41.000 So, how would you find, for example, the existence of a boys' school in rural New Mexico where all of these super smart people are holed up?
02:12:52.000 That's a real puzzle.
02:12:54.000 How would you figure out that Los Alamos was happening if that was your goal?
02:13:01.000 You'd look for indirect evidence.
02:13:03.000 Can you, Jamie, can you call up an article called Forbidden City from 1944 by a guy named, unfortunately, Jack Raper? 0.54
02:13:11.000 R A P G R. Change your name, bro.
02:13:14.000 I know, right. 0.98
02:13:17.000 Please call yourself rapper.
02:13:19.000 Add a P or something.
02:13:22.000 So.
02:13:23.000 Or a G before.
02:13:24.000 In 1944, the craziest thing in the.
02:13:26.000 What?
02:13:27.000 G, Graper?
02:13:27.000 Graper, right, exactly.
02:13:29.000 Um.
02:13:31.000 There it is.
02:13:32.000 Okay.
02:13:33.000 So this article appeared Monday, March 13th, 1944.
02:13:38.000 Santa Fe, New Mexico.
02:13:40.000 The story of a secret city with a mayor who is the second Einstein working on a doomsday weapon where nothing leaks.
02:13:53.000 And this is from what year?
02:13:55.000 1944.
02:13:56.000 Okay.
02:13:57.000 So the entire Manhattan Project leaked.
02:14:02.000 Because a Cleveland journalist named Jack Raper happened to vacation in New Mexico and stumbled on the greatest secret ever kept.
02:14:14.000 Really?
02:14:15.000 Dude, how can we not know this, Joe?
02:14:18.000 Wow.
02:14:19.000 And it's all about Oppenheimer.
02:14:20.000 Residents must stay.
02:14:22.000 Dr. Oppenheimer is a Harvard graduate, attended Cambridge, receives a PhD from Gottingham University in Germany, professor of physics, University of California, California Institute of Technology, and is a Fellow of too many organizations to enumerate.
02:14:39.000 And so they were recognizing that Oppenheimer was doing something.
02:14:43.000 They knew that he was working on a doomsday device.
02:14:46.000 Uncle Sam has placed the city in charge of two men.
02:14:49.000 The men who command the soldiers.
02:14:52.000 I can't read it.
02:14:53.000 We see that the garbage and rubbish are collected, the streets kept up, the electric light and plant, and the waterworks functioning, and all other metropolitan work operating smooth.
02:15:02.000 Is Colonel Somebody.
02:15:04.000 I don't know his name, but it isn't so important because the Mr. Big of the city is college professor Dr. J. Robert Oppenheimer, called the second Einstein by the newspapers of the West Coast.
02:15:15.000 What I'm trying to say is, Jack Raper never got a Pulitzer Prize, died in obscurity.
02:15:24.000 Leslie Groves, who was the other guy who was running the town, decided to send him to the Pacific to punish him for being the best journalist in America.
02:15:34.000 And when he found out he was 60 years old, they decided, okay, we're just going to ignore this story and hope everyone else does because it's too crazy to be real.
02:15:44.000 Now, what I'm telling you right now is.
02:15:47.000 Raper never figured out what Los Alamos was, but he knows that it doesn't make sense.
02:15:52.000 I'm telling you, Renaissance Technologies doesn't make sense.
02:15:55.000 So, these different.
02:15:56.000 What?
02:15:57.000 Another widespread belief is that he's developing ordnance and explosives.
02:16:01.000 Supporters of this guess argue that it accounts for the number of mechanics working on the production of a single device.
02:16:08.000 And there are others who will tell you tremendous explosions have been heard.
02:16:11.000 Oh, that Jack Raper with his overactive imagination.
02:16:14.000 Ha ha ha.
02:16:15.000 The problem with conspiracy theorists is that they say the darndest things, Joe.
02:16:19.000 Okay, so.
02:16:21.000 What do you think they're working on, these people at this upstate New York University?
02:16:26.000 Well, what are we not working on?
02:16:28.000 In other words, how do you discover what we're actually up to?
02:16:31.000 Is in part you listen for the holes.
02:16:36.000 What do I work on?
02:16:38.000 I work on the ability to get out of the solar system.
02:16:42.000 That is my life's mission. 1.00
02:16:47.000 I think Elon is a bit of a pussy. 1.00
02:16:54.000 Okay. 1.00
02:16:55.000 I don't know.
02:16:55.000 How so?
02:16:56.000 He won't meet with me.
02:16:57.000 Well, it's okay. 1.00
02:16:58.000 Maybe because you call him a pussy. 1.00
02:16:59.000 Yeah. 1.00
02:17:00.000 No, but.
02:17:01.000 Maybe he's busy.
02:17:02.000 Maybe he's trying to make chicks pregnant.
02:17:05.000 No.
02:17:07.000 It's something he does with recreation.
02:17:09.000 Elon's a genius, and Elon is trying to replace scientists with grok. 0.99
02:17:17.000 And one of the things I was on an Indian podcast called The Guy's Name is Beer Biceps Guy. 0.97
02:17:22.000 Ranveer, he's the Joe Rogan of India.
02:17:26.000 What's his name?
02:17:27.000 Ranvir Alabadia, can you find him?
02:17:30.000 Shout out to Ranvir.
02:17:31.000 So Ranvir is a friend of mine in Versova, and I went on his podcast.
02:17:31.000 Yeah.
02:17:37.000 And before SpaceX and XAI merged, I said, Look, I don't think SpaceX is Elon's space program.
02:17:51.000 His space program is Grok.
02:17:55.000 Elon doesn't trust scientists for good reason because they're weak.
02:17:59.000 So, he's building his own scientist from when we were strong.
02:18:04.000 He's going to have it read the corpus of physics done by competent physicists who actually care about the physical world so he doesn't have to deal with any of us.
02:18:12.000 That's why he won't meet.
02:18:13.000 It's not because he's not interested, not because he doesn't know.
02:18:18.000 I invited him to the talk as I did you yesterday.
02:18:23.000 The goal is to get out of the solar system, and we're so far away from everything good that there's no way of doing it under relativity.
02:18:30.000 So, why are we not researching the only thing that can save us, which is diversification?
02:18:37.000 We need to spread out to the largest number of habitable worlds possible.
02:18:42.000 So, this implies some sort of a new propulsion system.
02:18:45.000 This implies new science.
02:18:47.000 Stop thinking technology.
02:18:48.000 There's no way to, you can't engineer your way out of a science problem.
02:18:52.000 You have to science your way out of it.
02:18:53.000 And what would be that science?
02:18:55.000 Post Einstein, post relativity.
02:18:56.000 That's what I do.
02:18:59.000 And how would that apply to us leaving the solar system?
02:19:02.000 We don't live in space time.
02:19:04.000 Space time has a speed limit.
02:19:07.000 Explain that.
02:19:08.000 If you can only go the speed of light at your best and you can't even get anywhere close to that, how are you going to get to something four years old?
02:19:15.000 Light years away in a fantasy world.
02:19:20.000 By the time you go and come back, even assuming all, no, no, no, no.
02:19:23.000 Assume you can go at under the speed of light, just under.
02:19:27.000 You can use time dilation and relativistic effects to your benefit, but it's going to cost you eight years to go and come back.
02:19:34.000 Right.
02:19:36.000 Okay, I don't want to do that.
02:19:37.000 If I'm going to explore the cosmos, I don't want to use, I don't want to live in space time.
02:19:41.000 So, what are the alternatives?
02:19:43.000 The observers.
02:19:45.000 The successor to space time.
02:19:47.000 I'm happy to predict this on your show.
02:19:48.000 Will be named the Observerse, which is a combination of not just using a four dimensional space time manifold, but a 14 and a four dimensional space simultaneously.
02:19:58.000 This was what I was talking about at the university yesterday.
02:20:02.000 And how would that, like when you say the difference between science and technology?
02:20:06.000 So, how would that science be applied?
02:20:09.000 If we look at the surface of this table, I can't do this to it, can't spread it apart, move it, right?
02:20:15.000 It's called pinch to zoom.
02:20:17.000 It's a multi touch gesture invented around 2003 or something, debuted at TED.
02:20:23.000 But if I come to this device, I can do that.
02:20:26.000 Your phone.
02:20:26.000 Right.
02:20:27.000 So imagine that this is space time.
02:20:29.000 Okay.
02:20:30.000 And this is the observers.
02:20:33.000 So if I want to go to a distant star, there's no way I'm going to just go really fast. 0.99
02:20:39.000 That's dumb. 0.97
02:20:39.000 Right. 0.97
02:20:41.000 And I need an energy source and I need to do things that we can't normally do.
02:20:45.000 You have to jailbreak space time.
02:20:48.000 If Einstein is in force, we all die.
02:20:50.000 If we go beyond Einstein, some of us will live and some of us will die.
02:20:55.000 And what would be the energy that you would need in order to do this?
02:21:01.000 So, how do you unlock this?
02:21:04.000 One is maybe it's not that energetic to do these things.
02:21:08.000 Energy is technically time momentum.
02:21:14.000 You can talk about momentum in the x direction, momentum in the y, momentum in the z.
02:21:19.000 What's momentum in the time direction?
02:21:19.000 Fine.
02:21:22.000 We don't call energy time momentum, but that's what it is.
02:21:22.000 It has a different name.
02:21:27.000 So, first of all, I don't believe that there's one direction of time.
02:21:30.000 There's no arrow of time.
02:21:31.000 That's not true.
02:21:33.000 I believe that time is multidimensional.
02:21:35.000 The only dimension that has an ordering is one dimension.
02:21:42.000 So, in other words, if I say to you, Joe has two cigars, Eric has none, who has more cigars?
02:21:49.000 Joe.
02:21:50.000 Okay.
02:21:51.000 Joe has two cigars.
02:21:54.000 But Eric has three glasses and no cigars.
02:21:58.000 Joe has one glass and two cigars.
02:22:00.000 Who has more stuff?
02:22:01.000 Well, now it's not clear because Eric has more glasses than Joe, but Joe has more cigars.
02:22:07.000 So, in two dimensions, we no longer can say this is better than that for things where you have more of one and less of another.
02:22:15.000 Okay.
02:22:17.000 Time is like that.
02:22:19.000 In one dimension, there's an arrow, there's an ordering.
02:22:21.000 We call it, it's like a well ordered set or something.
02:22:25.000 In two dimensions, all bets are off.
02:22:28.000 And two and higher.
02:22:31.000 The number of dimensions in total is going to be either five or seven.
02:22:36.000 And each of those dimensions has a different kind of energy.
02:22:42.000 So, in other words, energy is unique because there's only one time dimension.
02:22:48.000 But as soon as time has multiple dimensions, you can talk about multiple forms of energy.
02:22:54.000 Just the way you can talk about momentum in the x direction, momentum in the y direction, or momentum in the z direction.
02:23:02.000 So, in part, what I'm trying to do is to jailbreak space time.
02:23:05.000 That's what I'm actually doing.
02:23:08.000 And I'm doing it with zero support, with no confirmation that this is real, because something is controlling my entire community.
02:23:17.000 To make this funny haha, just like Forbidden City, was Jack Raper has gone mad.
02:23:24.000 He thinks that there's a city in New Mexico where there's a mayor who's a second Einstein developing a doomsday weapon.
02:23:30.000 Is that funny? 0.82
02:23:32.000 What a loon that guy. 1.00
02:23:33.000 What an idiot. 1.00
02:23:35.000 Ha ha. 1.00
02:23:37.000 That's what's going on, Joe.
02:23:39.000 So, how do you think that?
02:23:43.000 Technology could be applied to these ideas in order to create some mode of travel.
02:23:51.000 Pinch to zooms, Joe.
02:23:52.000 Right, but how?
02:23:53.000 How would that be done?
02:23:54.000 So, right now we're in a four dimensional world.
02:23:56.000 Call that flatland.
02:23:57.000 Okay.
02:23:58.000 Imagine that there are 10 perpendicular dimensions called symmetric two tensors.
02:24:04.000 Four of those are spatial directions, and six of them temporal.
02:24:13.000 Four of them are temporal and six of them spatial.
02:24:17.000 I can't tell you one of those two.
02:24:20.000 But they're additionally either four or six extra time dimensions or six or four space dimensions.
02:24:20.000 Okay.
02:24:29.000 We have to gain access to break out of flatland.
02:24:33.000 We live in flatland.
02:24:34.000 We don't know we live in flatland.
02:24:37.000 And I know what that, technically, the name is fiber dimension.
02:24:43.000 What it is, we have to gain access to it, which is discovering that somebody gives you an obsidian rock that has a property that you've never seen before called pinch to zoom.
02:24:54.000 So I need to make the distance to the nearest star small so I can go with reasonable speed.
02:25:03.000 Or instantaneously?
02:25:05.000 I don't need instantaneously.
02:25:08.000 If I have something four light years away and I can make it 100 feet away, I can walk 100 feet easily enough.
02:25:14.000 You know, I can push something.
02:25:17.000 Right.
02:25:18.000 So the idea is if I can gain access to the fiber, the distance becomes relatively immaterial.
02:25:25.000 So if you think that these physicists are working on this and all these.
02:25:28.000 No, I didn't say that I think.
02:25:30.000 I'm saying if anybody.
02:25:32.000 Is working on that.
02:25:33.000 One of two things is happening. 1.00
02:25:35.000 Either we have become the stupidest nation on earth, destroying our own ability to do physics, we gave away the store, we're morons. 1.00
02:25:43.000 That's possible. 1.00
02:25:45.000 Or we're doing it in private.
02:25:48.000 And you feel like it's possible to hide all this from the general public?
02:25:52.000 Well, my point is you're not going to hide it.
02:25:54.000 The same way they did it before would be spoiled by satellites.
02:25:54.000 No, no, no.
02:25:59.000 Right now, if you tried to do Los Alamos, you couldn't do it because of the satellites.
02:26:04.000 Right.
02:26:04.000 So it has to be hidden in plain sight, it has to look like something that it isn't.
02:26:12.000 So if you asked me, let's imagine you asked me a different question.
02:26:16.000 Let's imagine you asked me, Eric.
02:26:18.000 Nobody's willing to give you money.
02:26:19.000 Nobody's willing to employ you.
02:26:21.000 Nobody's willing to have you speak at their seminar. 0.99
02:26:23.000 Despite the fact that you have complete blue chip credibility, how would you organize a secret team to get control of our adversaries, the world, and the ability to traverse the cosmos? 0.98
02:26:38.000 I sure as shit wouldn't build a chemical rocket company. 1.00
02:26:42.000 It's dumb. 0.99
02:26:43.000 But I'd do it as cover. 0.99
02:26:46.000 And I sure as shit wouldn't do things in an open university department. 0.98
02:26:51.000 Here's what I'd do I'd build an organization. 0.99
02:26:56.000 That could rationalize billions passing through it with almost no footprint.
02:27:00.000 Because what I really need is whiteboards and coffee and smart people and a secure campus and a story.
02:27:09.000 That's all I need.
02:27:11.000 God, wouldn't you love to have access to what they're doing?
02:27:14.000 No, because I'm going to do it myself.
02:27:16.000 How are you going to do that?
02:27:18.000 Because I know really smart people, Joe.
02:27:21.000 Don't you need insane amounts of money in a laboratory somewhere?
02:27:24.000 You know, it's funny.
02:27:25.000 Sam Altman is racing, Dario Amadei is racing.
02:27:29.000 Elon Musk for super intelligence.
02:27:32.000 So I asked myself if you could have premium subscriptions to Grok, Gemini, XAI, sorry, Grok, Gemini, Claude, all of them, or you could have Edward Frankel's home phone number, which would you choose?
02:27:53.000 I'd choose Ed Frankel's home phone number.
02:27:58.000 So I get to call Ed Frankel whenever I want to.
02:28:01.000 That's smart.
02:28:03.000 Look, there are people that you don't even know about who are just terrifyingly smart.
02:28:13.000 Allow me to assemble that team.
02:28:16.000 Is that literally what you're trying to do?
02:28:18.000 Oh, yeah.
02:28:19.000 And how are you doing it?
02:28:21.000 I stayed with Ed for five days in Berkeley.
02:28:21.000 I don't know.
02:28:25.000 I got him and another colleague who's also terrifying. 1.00
02:28:32.000 I'm using Soviets, Joe. 1.00
02:28:34.000 Ex Soviets. 0.95
02:28:35.000 Okay. 0.96
02:28:35.000 Because those guys haven't lost the magic. 0.96
02:28:39.000 And, you know, I had Frankel and a guy named Misha Kapranov come down for five days to kick the shit out of my theory. 0.87
02:28:49.000 It was crazy. 0.97
02:28:50.000 Absolutely crazy.
02:28:51.000 We're drinking vodka at like 10 a.m., having insane meals, and just working our asses off the way we're supposed to.
02:29:04.000 How'd it go?
02:29:05.000 Amazing.
02:29:07.000 What do they think about your theory?
02:29:09.000 So far, all systems go, Joe.
02:29:12.000 Okay.
02:29:13.000 So, in other words, the story.
02:29:17.000 Can we just pull up?
02:29:20.000 I just want to do this for my own reasons.
02:29:22.000 Can we pull up the lead, the pinned tweet on my Twitter profile, which, by the way, thank you for retweeting.
02:29:28.000 Yeah.
02:29:28.000 No problem.
02:29:29.000 Love you.
02:29:30.000 Love you too.
02:29:31.000 What is it?
02:29:32.000 Go to it real quick.
02:29:37.000 So, first of all, I want to show off the header.
02:29:40.000 Can we go up to the top of the header before we do that?
02:29:45.000 Those two formulas the bottom one says CFJ.
02:29:54.000 C is Sean Carroll.
02:29:57.000 The middle F is Fields.
02:30:00.000 And J is Roman Jakiev, a professor at MIT.
02:30:06.000 Sean Carroll's second most cited paper has this as its action or Lagrangian.
02:30:15.000 Right above that is my action or Lagrangian.
02:30:19.000 And what you see, all those zeros, is things that Sean Carroll doesn't know how to handle.
02:30:25.000 And that thing where you see a P, you see star parentheses P on the bottom line, not the second from the bottom, is Sean's relativity violating hack.
02:30:37.000 Sean Carroll did not disclose that geometric unity is a direct competitor to his most cited work.
02:30:46.000 So now, if we can roll the clip, it'll make more sense as to what's going on.
02:30:54.000 And let's blow that thing up.
02:30:56.000 This portrayal of the situation is nearly constant for reasons that completely elude me.
02:31:04.000 Sean?
02:31:05.000 The good news is, I have read Eric's paper.
02:31:07.000 Here it is.
02:31:08.000 I actually have it here, right here.
02:31:10.000 First thing you got to do is make sure that your theory makes contact with modern physics as it is understood.
02:31:16.000 If you have a new paper out, physicists are going to look at it.
02:31:19.000 They're going to look for, you know, Where's Lagrangian?
02:31:26.000 So, this is for people that are just listening, this is showing that you have Lagrangians in your.
02:31:33.000 It's showing Sean Carroll lying. 0.84
02:31:36.000 Right.
02:31:38.000 Did you.
02:31:41.000 The interactions are in there as well.
02:31:43.000 But did you call him out on this on the show?
02:31:45.000 I couldn't believe that he'd do this.
02:31:47.000 So, you didn't say anything?
02:31:48.000 I was stunned.
02:31:49.000 Proton stability, that's in there as well.
02:31:51.000 So.
02:31:52.000 Essentially, he's lying to make it seem like your theory doesn't work when you have all the things he's saying your theory doesn't have.
02:31:58.000 One of two lies.
02:31:59.000 We don't know which lie.
02:32:00.000 Okay.
02:32:01.000 There's a lie that says, I read your paper.
02:32:06.000 So you're.
02:32:06.000 I'm willing to entertain the fact that he's lying that he read my paper.
02:32:10.000 Okay.
02:32:11.000 And I'm willing to entertain the fact that he's lying that he read my paper and he's going to deny that these things are in there.
02:32:18.000 But he's.
02:32:19.000 I don't know which lie he's telling.
02:32:21.000 One of them's a lie.
02:32:21.000 Right.
02:32:22.000 Either he lied saying you read your paper or he lied saying, he definitely lied saying those things aren't in there because he did say those things aren't in there.
02:32:28.000 That's a lie.
02:32:29.000 Right.
02:32:29.000 He just says there's none of that, none of that, none of that.
02:32:31.000 So my claim is.
02:32:31.000 Okay.
02:32:32.000 How did you respond?
02:32:33.000 Like right there.
02:32:35.000 Joe, what am I saying?
02:32:36.000 Just let's just one more second.
02:32:41.000 I'm in a world that makes absolutely no sense and I don't want to disappear.
02:32:46.000 I'm not suicidal.
02:32:48.000 I have been the major competitor of string theory for 42 years.
02:32:52.000 I'm not a podcaster.
02:32:53.000 I'm not a guest.
02:32:54.000 I'm not an entertainer.
02:32:58.000 What I really do for a living, I'm not paid to do.
02:33:04.000 Okay, I understand that.
02:33:05.000 But when he's saying I don't know what to do, you just didn't know what to do in the morning.
02:33:08.000 I mean, what do I want?
02:33:09.000 Do I want a legal battle?
02:33:11.000 I've got a defense contractor.
02:33:13.000 One of the world's largest companies is a defense contractor, which has a campaign against me for reasons I don't understand.
02:33:21.000 I just have no clue.
02:33:24.000 Why anyone would say you don't have a Lagrangian.
02:33:27.000 So he's attached to a defense contract?
02:33:29.000 No, no, no.
02:33:30.000 But there's a.
02:33:30.000 By virtue of the fact that the conspiracy against me, and I literally mean technically a conspiracy, is organized through these Discord servers, and there's an engineer at Google who, for example, can't get a paper against me that lies about what it is that I'm up to.
02:33:53.000 Published on the archive, which is where physicists share their stuff.
02:33:58.000 So the engineer will say, How about you do a talk at Google, Sabina Hassenfelder?
02:34:03.000 And so, Piazza Hassenfelder will come to Google and she'll be given her thing if he will be allowed to post an anti Eric screed or paper or whatever you want to call it against me.
02:34:18.000 So, what I'm trying to say is, I'm acting as Jack Raper in some way.
02:34:22.000 I'm doing stuff and saying stuff like Epstein is a construct.
02:34:28.000 Well, okay, now you can say that, but you couldn't say that when I started saying it.
02:34:33.000 You can't say Ed Witten is driving theoretical physics off of a cliff.
02:34:36.000 You can't say.
02:34:38.000 The reason that we have the particles that we do is that there's a 10 dimensional fiber and a fiber bundle above space time that isn't acknowledged.
02:34:48.000 For some reason, the things that we're talking about on this show are dangerous.
02:34:55.000 We're having dangerous conversations, Joe.
02:34:57.000 That's what JRE does.
02:35:00.000 And sometimes you go all the way and sometimes you puss out.
02:35:03.000 But this is a dangerous place because they can't tell you what to do.
02:35:07.000 And that's why they put you in a different color on the screen during COVID.
02:35:12.000 Because you went against the narrative.
02:35:15.000 The narrative was go get vaccinated. 0.94
02:35:18.000 The narrative was if you think that COVID came from anything other than a wet market, you're a racist.
02:35:24.000 Every time you've gone up against the narrative, they try to destroy you.
02:35:28.000 You're still here, but you've been badly, badly bruised at various times.
02:35:35.000 You are a danger to the narrative, as I am a danger to the narrative.
02:35:39.000 That's one of the reasons why this is like, I don't know, what is this?
02:35:41.000 My eighth, sixth, some large number of appearances.
02:35:45.000 We are scary to the narrative, and the narrative can no longer be held together.
02:35:49.000 I want to bring you back to the technology that's involved.
02:35:53.000 So, when we're talking about this program that may or may not exist, and when we're talking about UAPs, for lack of a better term, do you think that these are connected?
02:36:07.000 And do you think that.
02:36:08.000 Yes.
02:36:09.000 So, one of the things that I've suspected, and I'm not the only one, many people suspected this, it's very odd that a lot of these sightings, that these.
02:36:19.000 Air Force pilots and Navy pilots that they find they're over and near military bases.
02:36:25.000 That's right.
02:36:26.000 Which is where you would practice, or restricted airspace, which is where you'd use your stuff.
02:36:32.000 And when they see these things and they have these experiences with these things, the people that they report them to don't seem shocked.
02:36:41.000 Right.
02:36:42.000 I mean, this is what Ryan Graves experienced.
02:36:42.000 Yeah.
02:36:45.000 This is what Commander David Fravor experienced. 0.99
02:36:49.000 Tell these people about these things, and no one is like, What the fuck are you talking about? 0.98
02:36:55.000 Right, because they know. 0.95
02:36:56.000 Because this might be ours.
02:37:00.000 So, some of this is ours.
02:37:01.000 Okay.
02:37:02.000 Some of this is foreign nations, and some of this is not understood.
02:37:06.000 That's what I believe.
02:37:07.000 Okay.
02:37:08.000 So, some of these things they're seeing is a part of some undisclosed program.
02:37:14.000 I believe that, for example, some of this is not craft, but the ability to create the illusion of craft.
02:37:22.000 Okay.
02:37:23.000 Some of this is.
02:37:24.000 I believe it is craft.
02:37:27.000 So, the ability to create like a hologram?
02:37:31.000 I don't know.
02:37:32.000 Like a hologram.
02:37:33.000 Plasma?
02:37:33.000 Like, yeah.
02:37:34.000 Projected plasma.
02:37:35.000 That's right.
02:37:36.000 Okay.
02:37:37.000 Which we know they can do.
02:37:38.000 Which we've seen them, we've showed videos.
02:37:40.000 We've seen limited versions of this.
02:37:43.000 Imagine that those things scale up.
02:37:45.000 Okay.
02:37:45.000 Okay.
02:37:49.000 If there were no aliens or craft, I would want to create a program.
02:37:57.000 If I was in the disinformation business, I would want to create one of these things.
02:38:02.000 Because there's a God shaped hole in all of our souls and minds.
02:38:02.000 Right?
02:38:07.000 And so aliens and spacecraft fill that hole.
02:38:10.000 Right.
02:38:11.000 So there's like a. 1.00
02:38:11.000 It's God for atheists. 1.00
02:38:12.000 Yeah, yeah. 1.00
02:38:13.000 It's God for atheists. 0.95
02:38:15.000 So, first of all, I would think that we were incompetent if we didn't have something that created UFO ghost stories. 0.99
02:38:23.000 Why wouldn't you use that? 0.54
02:38:26.000 I also believe that there are foreign nations that may have leapfrogged us.
02:38:32.000 Clearly, we saw that where we invested in aircraft carriers and other people invested in drones and they realized that this was about economic warfare.
02:38:39.000 It costs too much to shoot down cheap stuff to make.
02:38:44.000 So, we're in the process of having our Suez moment, if you will, in Iran, if we're not careful, where it is revealed that our lead in aircraft carrier groups is not what we thought it was.
02:39:00.000 So, we can get to Iran in a second if you like. 0.95
02:39:02.000 But what I believe is that we've been dumb. 1.00
02:39:08.000 We've been extremely stupid since the end of the Cold War. 1.00
02:39:11.000 Bill Clinton and Dick Morris ushered in an era of stupidity that I cannot even believe is so antithetical to my notion of my belonging to the smartest nation on earth that we've just basically gutted our smart people. 1.00
02:39:27.000 The smart people don't even know each other. 1.00
02:39:29.000 Now, what is going on?
02:39:30.000 With the technology and what we're seeing, we've lost control of some airspace.
02:39:35.000 That's what I believe is.
02:39:37.000 I don't know that to be true, but I believe with very high probability.
02:39:39.000 And you think that's what San Antonio is about?
02:39:41.000 San Antonio.
02:39:42.000 No, I'm sorry, El Paso.
02:39:44.000 Yeah.
02:39:44.000 I believe that El Paso is not about cartel drones.
02:39:47.000 That's true.
02:39:47.000 cartel drones.
02:39:48.000 That's true.
02:39:49.000 That's not to say that there isn't a cartel drone here or there, but I don't think we shut down airspace in El Paso to deal with cartel drones.
02:39:57.000 So when.
02:39:58.000 What were the experiences that people were reporting?
02:40:01.000 And, like, what do you know about what happened in El Paso?
02:40:07.000 Well, there's what I know, which is all secondhand.
02:40:09.000 So, what I know, what I can say I know firsthand is the reporting of various things by various people.
02:40:17.000 But I've probably had five plus conversations about White Sands.
02:40:20.000 People who don't know each other are not connected.
02:40:24.000 So, whoever is supposed to be keeping White Sands a secret failed.
02:40:28.000 Okay.
02:40:28.000 So, I believe that White Sands has an infestation problem.
02:40:33.000 With stuff that is either not ours or is being blue team, red teamed, ours, and not told to our people.
02:40:46.000 How would you deal with the following puzzle?
02:40:50.000 So maybe we're putting our own, one group is putting our drones or something in the air.
02:40:56.000 Right.
02:40:56.000 And another group is being told, how would you deal with this problem?
02:41:00.000 We've lost control of our airspace, but something is going on in New Mexico.
02:41:04.000 What were the descriptions?
02:41:05.000 Of these drones.
02:41:07.000 What does it say here?
02:41:10.000 Airspace at the center of the brief but highly publicized incident, February 11, 2026.
02:41:13.000 FAA abruptly announced a 10 day shutdown of the airspace over El Paso International Airport.
02:41:19.000 The restriction was lifted after just a few hours.
02:41:22.000 Pentagon anti drone testing.
02:41:23.000 The Pentagon was testing high energy laser counter drone technology out of the nearby Fort Bliss military base.
02:41:30.000 The FAA grounded commercial flights out of an abundance of caution because of the unannounced testing.
02:41:36.000 Cartel drone activity.
02:41:37.000 Officials from the Trump administration cited incursions from Mexican drug cartel drones breaching U.S. airspace as the primary reason that the defense systems were deployed in the first place.
02:41:50.000 First place, lack of communication.
02:41:50.000 Lack of communication.
02:41:53.000 White House officials later noted that the FAA administrator implemented the surprise flight ban without notifying the Pentagon, Department of Homeland Security, or White House officials.
02:42:02.000 That seems crazy.
02:42:04.000 The story doesn't hang together.
02:42:05.000 That part doesn't hang together.
02:42:06.000 Well, that's the thing.
02:42:07.000 The FAA administrator implemented a flight ban without notifying the Pentagon, the Department of Homeland Security, or the White House officials.
02:42:15.000 That doesn't even seem legal.
02:42:18.000 But I don't know.
02:42:23.000 You and I both have at least 105 IQs.
02:42:26.000 These are like 65 IQ stories.
02:42:30.000 Yeah. 0.72
02:42:31.000 Well, the Mexican drone cartel one seems like a dopey narrative.
02:42:35.000 But maybe there are actually Mexican drones.
02:42:39.000 I'm sure the cartels have drones.
02:42:40.000 Okay, so the cartels have drones.
02:42:42.000 And we're going to use the fact that El Paso is close to Whiteside.
02:42:45.000 But what was the reported drone activity?
02:42:49.000 Do you know anything about it?
02:42:50.000 Like what supposedly?
02:42:51.000 Yeah?
02:42:52.000 Not going to say.
02:42:53.000 Ooh.
02:42:54.000 Mysterious.
02:42:54.000 No.
02:42:55.000 Hardly being mysterious.
02:42:56.000 I'm saying as much as I can.
02:42:58.000 But here's the thing.
02:42:58.000 I understand.
02:42:59.000 I'm joking around.
02:43:00.000 Okay.
02:43:01.000 But I mean, I'd like to know, like, what.
02:43:03.000 Right.
02:43:04.000 Tell me later.
02:43:04.000 But I'm.
02:43:05.000 No. 1.00
02:43:06.000 Shit. 1.00
02:43:07.000 No, it's not like that. 1.00
02:43:09.000 Look. 1.00
02:43:12.000 Oh, fuck you both. 1.00
02:43:15.000 Let's play that awesome music again. 1.00
02:43:16.000 He loves it.
02:43:17.000 There's a video from the AP put out just four days ago that says there is a cartel attacking lots of people.
02:43:23.000 Well, I'm sure there's cartel drones.
02:43:25.000 What I'm trying to say is, I'm positive.
02:43:26.000 No, no, no.
02:43:27.000 I need to know.
02:43:28.000 Yeah.
02:43:28.000 Every single person who knows how to keep a secret knows how to use the truth to hide a lie.
02:43:32.000 Right, of course.
02:43:34.000 And that's always been done.
02:43:35.000 So the thing that I'm doing is I am so grateful to this country.
02:43:41.000 I love my country.
02:43:44.000 I am going to maintain the ability till my dying day to help my country and advise my country. 1.00
02:43:51.000 My country is a bitch. 1.00
02:43:54.000 I don't know why she's acting this way. 1.00
02:43:56.000 I don't know why she's been stupid since 1992. 1.00
02:44:01.000 Right? 1.00
02:44:02.000 But she's been acting like a moron since the Clinton administration. 1.00
02:44:08.000 We're bad at being America. 1.00
02:44:10.000 And I can't stand it.
02:44:12.000 So I'm going to.
02:44:13.000 I would love to tell you everything I know.
02:44:16.000 I would love to penalize people for being bad at their jobs.
02:44:22.000 But I'm going to retain the ability to advise my government till my dying day.
02:44:26.000 And so I'm not going to say what I know.
02:44:27.000 Okay.
02:44:28.000 It says this is from the New York Times.
02:44:30.000 Inside the debacle that led to the closure of El Paso's airspace, FAA citing grave risk.
02:44:35.000 Of fatalities from a new technology being used on the Mexican border got caught in a stalemate with the Pentagon, which deemed the weapon necessary.
02:44:45.000 Whatever.
02:44:46.000 Okay, who knows? 1.00
02:44:47.000 Bullshit. 1.00
02:44:48.000 As many stories as you can spin, right? 1.00
02:44:50.000 Throw them all out there, right?
02:44:51.000 Throw a bunch of them. 0.98
02:44:52.000 Look, our press was largely set up in World War II to go to war.
02:44:57.000 And it's been that way ever since.
02:45:00.000 And during the Walter Cronkite era and the Eric Severides and all that kind of stuff that nobody really remembers.
02:45:07.000 We had a measure of freedom to talk about things, and it got too much.
02:45:12.000 And in the middle of the 1970s, we had the Church and Pike committee hearings, and we freaked out.
02:45:19.000 We found out who we really were. 0.53
02:45:21.000 We are both the super naive, squeaky clean state and the baddest of the bad MFs.
02:45:28.000 We're both things, we're a hybrid.
02:45:32.000 We're extremely Machiavellian, we're extremely naive.
02:45:35.000 There's no way of stopping that being what we are.
02:45:39.000 So, you think that it's very possible that there's a foreign nation that has some sort of technology that can invade our airspace at will, and that was what the shutdown was?
02:45:51.000 I believe that somebody may have leapfrogged us as they have leapfrogged us in drone technology.
02:45:57.000 So, they may have leapfrogged us in some propulsion technology?
02:46:02.000 I believe that there's a nation in Asia.
02:46:06.000 China, which puts on amazing drone shows and buys up our academics who aren't being paid because we're sitting around bitching.
02:46:17.000 What have you, technical people, done for us?
02:46:20.000 Why do you deserve to be paid from taxpayer dollars? 1.00
02:46:24.000 And the answer is, oh, shut the fuck up. 1.00
02:46:26.000 We created your economy, you stupid bitches. 1.00
02:46:30.000 We're the baddest of the bad. 1.00
02:46:33.000 We are the source of your wealth and your strength.
02:46:35.000 And you come to us bitching about your taxpayer dollars. 0.99
02:46:39.000 You deserve to lose to China, you little.
02:46:42.000 I have no words for the new crop of tech billionaires who were bitten by COVID. 0.85
02:46:50.000 What do you mean by that?
02:46:53.000 Well, they think that Anthony Fauci was a scientist, and so they believed in science before Fauci, and now they don't believe in science.
02:47:00.000 I don't understand what you're saying.
02:47:04.000 Oh, my God.
02:47:05.000 I literally don't understand what you're saying.
02:47:07.000 Silicon Valley had a huge about face.
02:47:07.000 All right.
02:47:10.000 When they figured out that Fauci was full of shit. 1.00
02:47:14.000 A lot of them bankrolled our universities. 1.00
02:47:18.000 They supported science.
02:47:20.000 They were Democrats.
02:47:21.000 And then somehow COVID happened.
02:47:23.000 And because they had this childlike belief in universities, science, and the Democratic Party, they ran to the Republican Party like children, not understanding that Anthony Fauci was not a scientist.
02:47:41.000 COVID is a giant lie.
02:47:43.000 Collins and Fauci and Ralph Barak and Peter Dazzek are menaces to the credit of science.
02:47:53.000 The credit rating of science went into the toilet with Silicon Valley.
02:47:57.000 And a new idea was born, which is that the engineer is everything, the scientist is nothing.
02:48:03.000 Everything should be a for profit, not a non profit.
02:48:08.000 If artificial intelligence should replace our best people, I mean, this is the spell that many of our.
02:48:20.000 I would like to think that I count Mark Andreessen, Peter Thiel as friends, Sam Altman as a friend.
02:48:27.000 I don't know what happened to all of these people.
02:48:32.000 They're just wrong.
02:48:34.000 And they're rich.
02:48:36.000 And somehow we, like our public intellectuals, became our billionaires.
02:48:40.000 What does Naval say?
02:48:42.000 What does Mark say?
02:48:43.000 What does Elon say?
02:48:44.000 Everybody who's talking their book is now our public intellectuals.
02:48:48.000 And quite honestly, they're all brilliant, but they're all highly motivated.
02:48:56.000 That's fact.
02:49:01.000 But where are our scientists?
02:49:01.000 Yeah.
02:49:05.000 Where are our intellectuals?
02:49:06.000 Where are our people who care more about how do I say this?
02:49:11.000 Glory and immortality rather than private jet travel.
02:49:18.000 You could not get me to give up my claim on immortality for private jet travel.
02:49:28.000 I don't understand the fascination with private jets.
02:49:34.000 They're cool, mildly.
02:49:40.000 Well, it's not just private chats.
02:49:41.000 Well, what is it?
02:49:44.000 I think they attach monetary gain to success and above and beyond needs.
02:49:55.000 So it becomes a way of measuring success.
02:49:59.000 They look at numbers above and beyond everything else.
02:50:03.000 My craziest, brilliant friend who's completely insane is a guy named Michael Vassar.
02:50:09.000 And Michael Vassar made a point to me, as he often does, which is really dangerous.
02:50:14.000 And he said, When did the world's smartest people stop caring about their own game and their own prizes and start focusing on the prizes of the people pursuing wealth and status?
02:50:31.000 And he said, Somehow, when scientists care about McLarens and Lamborghinis, something terrible has happened.
02:50:38.000 And boy, has that like a splinter in my mind turning over.
02:50:43.000 I can't get rid of it.
02:50:45.000 He's right.
02:50:47.000 He's just right.
02:50:49.000 By the way, this is a guy who also told me that Dario Amadei was like a really important person.
02:50:54.000 I needed to pay attention to him when he was just some guy that I knew.
02:51:00.000 Vassar's point is the scientists stop having their own game with their own prizes, and so they've started caring about things that they should be completely ignoring.
02:51:11.000 I don't have a McLaren and I couldn't care less.
02:51:15.000 I do care about immortality.
02:51:17.000 I do care about recognition.
02:51:18.000 I do care about my name being removed from things that I've done and other people's cherry topping going on top of it.
02:51:27.000 Quite honestly, we're a different game.
02:51:29.000 We're a different species.
02:51:32.000 You know that song, One Night in Bangkok?
02:51:35.000 It came from a musical about chess.
02:51:39.000 And he says in the lyrics to that song, which we don't remember, He says, something like, I have you over, I would invite you, but the queens we use would not excite you.
02:51:51.000 So you can go back to your massage parlors in Bangkok.
02:51:53.000 The whole point is that the chess world doesn't care about who got laid.
02:51:58.000 The chess world cares about the evergreen game, the immortal game.
02:52:03.000 What did Fisher do to Spassky?
02:52:06.000 What's going on with Magnus Carlsen?
02:52:09.000 Somehow the science world stopped caring about our own stuff.
02:52:13.000 And.
02:52:15.000 We've got to make sure that the public intellectuals are not dominated by billionaires.
02:52:21.000 As much as I love these guys, they're my friends.
02:52:23.000 I think you're right.
02:52:24.000 Yeah.
02:52:25.000 They're smart as hell.
02:52:26.000 They wouldn't have gotten to be billionaires otherwise, but they're always talking their book.
02:52:31.000 Always.
02:52:33.000 Look at, you know, people are like famous libertarians and they become surveillance people.
02:52:39.000 You know, Bill Gates, you know, is he just buying farmland for, right?
02:52:45.000 To be.
02:52:46.000 He wants to make sure that we have a steady supply of food.
02:52:49.000 Of something.
02:52:51.000 We've got to stop the addiction to billionaires as the only people we trust because at least they're rich.
02:52:59.000 Let's end it there because I've got to wrap this up.
02:53:01.000 But I appreciate you very much.
02:53:03.000 This is very good.
02:53:04.000 Yeah, it was a good one.
02:53:04.000 Yeah?
02:53:05.000 Great seeing you, Joe.
02:53:06.000 Great seeing you, too.
02:53:07.000 And I think the last point should resonate with a lot of people.
02:53:12.000 It's dead right.
02:53:13.000 Look forward to seeing you soon, Joe.
02:53:14.000 Maybe we'll go to another planet together.
02:53:15.000 Love it.
02:53:17.000 Bye, everybody.