The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #2504 - Skylar Grey

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day!

00:00:09.000 Great to see you.

00:00:13.000 Great to see you.

00:00:14.000 What's happening?

00:00:16.000 Putting on an album.

00:00:17.000 This is the power of music.

00:00:20.000 I told my wife that you were coming on, and she said, I don't want to get a.

00:00:27.000 She said, if I die on my funeral, I want her song, I'm coming home.

00:00:33.000 Really?

00:00:34.000 Yeah.

00:00:35.000 I was like, that's a heavy thought. 0.99

00:00:38.000 And then I listened to it in the gym and I was like, God damn. 0.98

00:00:41.000 I listened to the version where you were on the piano. 0.99

00:00:44.000 It was like a solo concert.

00:00:47.000 And I was like, God.

00:00:50.000 That's such a great song, but it's such a crazy thought.

00:00:55.000 Yeah.

00:00:57.000 That someone would want.

00:00:58.000 Wow.

00:00:59.000 A very specific song.

00:01:02.000 Man.

00:01:03.000 Heavy way to start the podcast.

00:01:05.000 I know, but.

00:01:07.000 But that's, you know, that's the emotion of real music.

00:01:12.000 It's like you sent me a text message about AI, you know, because you sent me one of your songs and you're like, AI is never going to recreate this.

00:01:12.000 You know?

00:01:12.000 Yeah.

00:01:23.000 I said something like, I don't think it's capable of writing stuff with this much emotion yet.

00:01:28.000 Well, it's not real, you know?

00:01:30.000 Yeah.

00:01:31.000 It sounds cool.

00:01:32.000 That's what AI does.

00:01:34.000 There's cool songs that come from AI.

00:01:37.000 But there's always going to be, and I completely agree with you, there's always going to be a thing.

00:01:42.000 We know a person wrote it, that they sat down and they wrote it, and there's this connection with their spirit and their creativity that comes out.

00:01:54.000 And that's what people love about music, other than stuff that sounds.

00:01:58.000 I like AI music because it sounds cool, but I know what it is.

00:02:02.000 I know it's just a robot.

00:02:04.000 I mean, I think it's, you know, sometimes it's good for certain things, but the type of music that I make personally.

00:02:12.000 It's like very therapeutic for me to write.

00:02:14.000 I always am writing from like a true emotion.

00:02:17.000 So, yeah.

00:02:22.000 Each, you can't really make true emotion right now.

00:02:24.000 Yeah.

00:02:26.000 It all has its place, though.

00:02:28.000 I think AI is an interesting tool, it's just like another tool.

00:02:31.000 I feel like that, you know, when Auto Tune first came out, people were bitching about that.

00:02:38.000 And even like my first albums I recorded with my mom when I was a little kid, we did it on two inch tape.

00:02:45.000 You know, so there was no computer involved.

00:02:47.000 So then computers got introduced and people were bitching about that.

00:02:51.000 Like, this isn't real music.

00:02:53.000 You know, it's just like all these technological advances.

00:02:53.000 Yeah.

00:02:56.000 To me, I see them as just tools that creatives can use to get their vision across.

00:03:03.000 What was Peter Frampton using back in the day?

00:03:05.000 It was like a tube or something, right?

00:03:07.000 I have no idea.

00:03:09.000 Do you remember, like, you know what that stuff is, Jamie, right?

00:03:14.000 It's a talk box.

00:03:16.000 It's like a tube you put in your mouth or something?

00:03:18.000 Yeah, so it's like a straw and the microphone picks up the sound.

00:03:22.000 So the sound would go through the tube into your mouth and then the microphone picks that up and you're using your mouth.

00:03:26.000 Because I remember people hating that.

00:03:28.000 Like way back in the day, people were hating that.

00:03:31.000 Like that's not his real voice.

00:03:32.000 Like what is he doing?

00:03:33.000 Why does he put it through that thing?

00:03:36.000 I don't know.

00:03:36.000 You know?

00:03:38.000 But there's always, I mean, look, there's always going to be tools that people use to enhance creativity.

00:03:43.000 But the thing that's weird now is that they're making entire songs.

00:03:47.000 Like they can make.

00:03:48.000 I know it's a total Skylar Gray category.

00:03:51.000 And they sound pretty good.

00:03:52.000 They sound really good.

00:03:54.000 You know, that's what's crazy.

00:03:55.000 It's your voice.

00:03:57.000 And it's only going to get better, you know, because it's so new.

00:03:59.000 Yeah.

00:04:01.000 So, there's an entire podcast with me that I never did.

00:04:04.000 Really?

00:04:05.000 Yeah, there's a whole conversation with me and Steve Jobs.

00:04:07.000 I never met Steve Jobs.

00:04:09.000 It was just me and Steve Jobs talking about stuff.

00:04:11.000 Is it the visual, too?

00:04:13.000 No, it's not the visual.

00:04:14.000 This one's just an audio one, but eventually I'm sure there'll be a visual one.

00:04:18.000 Yeah.

00:04:19.000 And there's definitely ones of me talking to people I've never talked to because people pretend they've been on the show for fun.

00:04:26.000 They have a whole conversation with me.

00:04:26.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:04:28.000 It's very, very strange.

00:04:31.000 Very strange.

00:04:32.000 Yeah, we're living in a weird, blurry time.

00:04:35.000 Yeah.

00:04:35.000 Like the lines between real and not real are getting very blurry.

00:04:40.000 Like it's an introduction to the Matrix.

00:04:42.000 Like we're getting like the first whispers of the fog of the Matrix as it envelops us.

00:04:48.000 We're getting just these little clouds, like, oh, this is weird.

00:04:48.000 Yeah.

00:04:51.000 Then eventually it's just going to be, whoa.

00:04:53.000 We're going to just be in the full cloud of the Matrix.

00:04:57.000 But I see people questioning everything now.

00:04:58.000 They're like, is this real?

00:05:00.000 Everybody's sussy about everything now.

00:05:02.000 You should.

00:05:03.000 Yeah.

00:05:03.000 I mean, there's people like prominent news people who have reposted stories with videos in it that were like straight out of a video game.

00:05:11.000 Yeah.

00:05:12.000 It's a very, very weird time we're in.

00:05:14.000 You know?

00:05:14.000 Very.

00:05:16.000 But I think it's also exciting.

00:05:18.000 Oh, it's definitely exciting.

00:05:19.000 You know, it's fun.

00:05:20.000 Well, it's weird.

00:05:20.000 Yeah.

00:05:21.000 Anytime things are weird, anything, things are like, ugh.

00:05:24.000 But that, I think it makes you really appreciate actual things, like real physical things.

00:05:24.000 Yeah.

00:05:30.000 Yeah, I agree with that.

00:05:32.000 Real connection with people, real art.

00:05:35.000 I think that's what's going to happen a lot with AI. 0.92

00:05:38.000 People's actual artwork, getting something like this chimp sculpt. 0.91

00:05:43.000 This is made with thimbles, symbols, with zildjian. 0.99

00:05:47.000 Oh, yeah, I see that.

00:05:48.000 This guy, Shane Against the Machine.

00:05:51.000 He makes stuff.

00:05:52.000 Yeah, he's an artist, makes cool stuff.

00:05:54.000 But I know a guy made that. 0.71

00:05:56.000 When I'm fucking around with this, this guy made it. 0.90

00:05:59.000 Yeah, I think it'll make us value real human made art more. 0.98

00:06:05.000 And.

00:06:06.000 Value like nuance and mistakes and things not being perfect, you know?

00:06:12.000 Yeah.

00:06:13.000 I mean, that's part of what's relatable about art.

00:06:18.000 It's part of what makes us appreciate that it did come from a person.

00:06:22.000 You know, like when you look at a really cool painting, like that painting, that's not perfect.

00:06:27.000 It's not supposed to be perfect.

00:06:27.000 Yeah.

00:06:28.000 I love it.

00:06:30.000 It's just supposed to be an expression.

00:06:31.000 You know, it's like a person's work.

00:06:34.000 It's like they're.

00:06:35.000 Whatever they are, their thing, their essence is in that canvas.

00:06:40.000 You know?

00:06:42.000 Yep.

00:06:43.000 How'd you get started doing music?

00:06:44.000 How old were you?

00:06:45.000 You said you recorded with your mom when you were little?

00:06:47.000 Yeah.

00:06:48.000 How old were you?

00:06:49.000 I was six when I did my first show.

00:06:52.000 Whoa.

00:06:53.000 Yeah.

00:06:54.000 So she was in like folk bands and stuff, and she also plays Celtic harp.

00:06:59.000 And my dad was in a barbershop quartet.

00:07:02.000 My great grandma was an opera singer.

00:07:04.000 So I just was like born into an extremely musical family.

00:07:07.000 And when I was like, Two, we were singing happy birthday to one of my aunts, and I started singing a harmony.

00:07:16.000 And my mom was like, What is going on?

00:07:18.000 How's a two year old singing harmony?

00:07:20.000 I wasn't even able to say all the words, but the notes I was singing were like the harmony part.

00:07:25.000 And then with all her bands that she was playing with all the time, I would be at the rehearsals and chiming in.

00:07:32.000 And then they would bring me up on stage to do little guest appearances.

00:07:40.000 It was just very clear that that's what I wanted to do.

00:07:42.000 Wow.

00:07:43.000 And so when I was six, we put together our first like hour long set, and I played at a library, me and my mom together.

00:07:52.000 Wow.

00:07:53.000 And it was a Mother's Day show in Madison, Wisconsin.

00:07:56.000 Wow.

00:07:57.000 So I'm from Mesomani.

00:07:58.000 It's like a 1,500 person, really small village, basically, in Wisconsin.

00:08:04.000 And so then I just loved it.

00:08:07.000 And so we started touring around the Midwest and played a lot of really random venues like elementary schools, libraries, women's health conventions.

00:08:23.000 I think one of the biggest shows I ever did was actually a Boy Scouts thing.

00:08:28.000 1500 Boy Scouts.

00:08:31.000 How old were you?

00:08:33.000 So I did this from the time I was six till I went solo, I think when I was 12.

00:08:43.000 That's crazy.

00:08:45.000 That's an interesting life, though, to have your path carved out or at least the direction at a very young age.

00:08:52.000 And it wasn't like I was like a Disney star or something.

00:08:52.000 Yeah.

00:08:55.000 So it wasn't like on a big scale.

00:08:56.000 It was organic.

00:08:57.000 It was small.

00:08:59.000 But I made decent money and.

00:09:02.000 I mean, for a kid.

00:09:04.000 And I saved it up.

00:09:05.000 And then when I was 12, I bought my first grand piano with the money I'd saved up.

00:09:09.000 Oh, wow.

00:09:10.000 Yeah.

00:09:12.000 And so then I started writing songs at the piano, like pop songs and stuff, solo.

00:09:17.000 And it wasn't cool at that time to be singing with my mom anymore.

00:09:21.000 Like, you know, kids get really mean in middle school.

00:09:25.000 And they would, like, make fun of me.

00:09:26.000 Because we were singing the silliest, like, we are the colors of the rainbow.

00:09:31.000 Never smoked tobacco and my grandma slid down the mountain. 0.90

00:09:34.000 These are some of the song titles, so it was very silly and I got made fun of.

00:09:40.000 And so I wanted to sing pop songs and uh I went solo.

00:09:44.000 My mom was not stoked about that because like it had become her career singing with me.

00:09:49.000 Like, we I would miss so much school.

00:09:53.000 Um, sometimes I had six shows a week, so it was like a lot.

00:09:59.000 Hey, lie down, buddy.

00:10:00.000 But you're helping and puffing.

00:10:10.000 Oh, look at that.

00:10:13.000 So, when you say your mom wasn't stoked about that, was that like real friction between you guys?

00:10:22.000 No, I mean, she was really supportive, but like I said, it had become her career singing with me.

00:10:28.000 So, it was like she had to adjust her whole lifestyle and everything for that.

00:10:34.000 Wow.

00:10:35.000 You know? 0.99

00:10:36.000 That had to be a hard decision for you then, knowing that that's going to bum your mom out.

00:10:41.000 Yes and no.

00:10:43.000 I just, like, I was so driven.

00:10:46.000 At 12?

00:10:47.000 Oh, yeah.

00:10:49.000 Yeah.

00:10:50.000 Well, what was the feeling?

00:10:51.000 Like, when you say you're so driven, like, what was it inside you that made you want to?

00:10:56.000 I just loved making music and performing and writing.

00:11:00.000 And I knew I just, there was no, like, option of anything else I would do with my life.

00:11:07.000 And I knew I wasn't going to sing with my mom my whole life.

00:11:10.000 You know, so I had to at some time, yeah.

00:11:13.000 At 12.

00:11:17.000 Yeah.

00:11:18.000 That's so crazy.

00:11:20.000 God, that's crazy.

00:11:20.000 And I hated school so much, and I begged to be homeschooled, and we couldn't figure that out.

00:11:28.000 So I ended up dropping out when I was 16.

00:11:33.000 Why'd you hate it so much?

00:11:37.000 Because I was so focused on music, I felt like I was wasting my time in school.

00:11:41.000 Wow.

00:11:42.000 Um,. 0.99

00:11:44.000 Yeah, there was this teacher that my algebra teacher said something to me that kind of lit a fire under my ass in a good way. 0.98

00:11:56.000 She told me music isn't a career. 1.00

00:12:00.000 And I was like, I'll show you, bitch. 0.99

00:12:05.000 And so I dropped out and I never went back after she said that. 0.99

00:12:08.000 There's so many teachers that have influence over children that say things like that.

00:12:14.000 And it's such a crazy, irresponsible thing to say.

00:12:18.000 Yeah.

00:12:19.000 Because I had missed or I hadn't done my homework because I had a show the night before this.

00:12:26.000 And then we had a test and.

00:12:28.000 I aced the test.

00:12:30.000 I was a good student.

00:12:31.000 I had like a 3.9.

00:12:34.000 But I aced the test.

00:12:35.000 But she was like, But you got to do your homework just like everybody else in this class.

00:12:38.000 And I was like, I had a show.

00:12:39.000 I couldn't.

00:12:40.000 I didn't have time.

00:12:41.000 And she was like, Well, music's not a career.

00:12:43.000 That's such a crazy thing to say because it's clearly a career.

00:12:47.000 Why do you listen to music?

00:12:48.000 Who's making it?

00:12:49.000 When you go to a concert, people are paying.

00:12:49.000 I know.

00:12:52.000 Is there someone on stage?

00:12:53.000 Is that a career? 0.97

00:12:54.000 What the fuck does that mean? 0.95

00:12:56.000 It's not a career. 0.99

00:12:57.000 Small town Midwest, it's like, I mean, I guess everywhere.

00:13:00.000 People push the go to school, you know, get a good job.

00:13:00.000 It's everywhere.

00:13:06.000 And I just wasn't on that path ever.

00:13:10.000 It was pretty wild to be that focused at such an early age. 1.00

00:13:14.000 But it is, there's something fun about those kind of like, I'll show you bitch stories. 1.00

00:13:20.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:13:21.000 Like I could have taken that and been like, I could have gone the other direction with that comment, you know? 0.83

00:13:26.000 You could have said, oh my God, I don't want to be a loser. 0.94

00:13:26.000 Right. 0.94

00:13:28.000 I don't want to be homeless.

00:13:30.000 Like, okay, she's right.

00:13:30.000 Yeah.

00:13:31.000 And she's an adult, so she must know.

00:13:33.000 Right.

00:13:34.000 But, yeah, I did the opposite.

00:13:35.000 You get older.

00:13:36.000 It gave me a fire.

00:13:37.000 But you get older and you realize, like, there's a lot of people that are teaching.

00:13:40.000 They're just teaching because they need a teacher.

00:13:42.000 It's not because, like, we found this magical person who's really good at educating children, really good at, like, shaping their minds and their futures.

00:13:50.000 No.

00:13:50.000 Yeah.

00:13:52.000 There's some good teachers.

00:13:53.000 There's a lot of them.

00:13:54.000 I had some really good teachers, but she was not one of them.

00:13:57.000 It's hard to find someone that's really good at a job that doesn't pay very well.

00:14:01.000 It is.

00:14:01.000 That's part of the problem.

00:14:02.000 That is part of the problem.

00:14:03.000 And it's almost like.

00:14:05.000 You would think that if the future of humanity is very important, one of the most important things would be education.

00:14:13.000 So, one of the most important things would be finding the best teachers.

00:14:17.000 And how would you do that?

00:14:18.000 You would pay them really well.

00:14:21.000 Like, if we really cared about the future of Earth, we would spend a ton of money making sure that these teachers are really well educated and that they really understand psychology, they really understand how to motivate children.

00:14:37.000 You would think that would make a lot of sense.

00:14:39.000 Right. 1.00

00:14:40.000 It's so odd how intelligent and capable and innovative we are, and yet so fucking foolish at the same time. 0.99

00:14:48.000 That we just allow that generation after generation. 0.99

00:14:51.000 Shitty teachers not getting paid, good teachers not getting rewarded.

00:14:57.000 And then they retire and they're like, what was that all for?

00:15:00.000 Nobody cared.

00:15:02.000 Nobody appreciated what I was doing.

00:15:05.000 You have to fight for your pension.

00:15:09.000 The whole system is so.

00:15:11.000 Messed up.

00:15:12.000 But the education system is so crazy.

00:15:14.000 Because, I mean, essentially, I mean, when you go down the tinfoil hat road, it was essentially designed to make factory workers.

00:15:14.000 Yeah.

00:15:23.000 I mean, you know, there wasn't really formal schooling like we have now where children go at an early age and show up and, you know, and leave their parents all day.

00:15:35.000 That's a fairly recent thing in human history.

00:15:38.000 And the reason why they got people really early.

00:15:41.000 Is because that's how you can brainwash them.

00:15:43.000 Right.

00:15:43.000 You get kids when they're 14, 15 years old, they kind of already have their own view of the world.

00:15:49.000 It's hard to shape them.

00:15:51.000 But you get those little five year olds, six year olds.

00:15:54.000 And then if you get preschool, you know, because a lot of people have to work, you know, parents, both parents work.

00:15:59.000 So then you can get the kids real early.

00:16:02.000 And then you can make little workers out of them.

00:16:04.000 Mm hmm.

00:16:05.000 Walk in a single file line and control everything.

00:16:10.000 Mm hmm.

00:16:10.000 Sit in class, sit straight ahead, pledge allegiance.

00:16:14.000 Yeah.

00:16:15.000 Raise your hand. 0.94

00:16:16.000 If you can't pay attention, you must have a disease.

00:16:19.000 So we're going to give you some medication.

00:16:20.000 Exactly.

00:16:21.000 Yeah.

00:16:21.000 And then you're like, I probably should have had some of that medication, to be honest.

00:16:27.000 Probably not.

00:16:29.000 No, no.

00:16:31.000 I definitely think I'm an undiagnosed ADHD case, but I feel like almost everybody is.

00:16:36.000 Well, anybody that's any good at anything. 0.99

00:16:38.000 We had this conversation yesterday with my friend Eric, and I was like, I think it's a fucking superpower. 0.99

00:16:43.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:16:43.000 I really do. 0.99

00:16:45.000 I don't think it's negative at all. 0.98

00:16:47.000 Yeah, there's a lot of shit I can't pay attention to if it's boring. 0.99

00:16:51.000 Right. 0.99

00:16:51.000 If it's boring, I check in and check in. 0.99

00:16:53.000 But then do you have like super hyper focus on things that you're obsessed with, right?

00:16:56.000 Oh, yeah.

00:16:57.000 Like, I don't need to sleep.

00:16:58.000 Yeah.

00:16:58.000 Like, I could stay up for days if something is really interesting, if I get focused, which is why I have to stay away from video games and stuff like that.

00:17:06.000 Oh, yeah.

00:17:07.000 You just get sucked in for hours.

00:17:09.000 Yeah, it's a problem.

00:17:10.000 But it's not just video games, it's like anything that I really love.

00:17:10.000 Yeah.

00:17:13.000 But things that I'm not interested in, it's like I can't absorb it.

00:17:17.000 It just goes in, and that's what high school was like for me.

00:17:20.000 It was like I'd be in class, I'd be like, this is torture.

00:17:25.000 But then I'd find something I really loved, and I'd be like, fully locked in.

00:17:29.000 Yeah.

00:17:29.000 But it took me.

00:17:30.000 A while for me to realize because I just thought I was going to be a loser.

00:17:32.000 I'm like, clearly, I can never hold a job.

00:17:35.000 I'm not, I can't take direction.

00:17:37.000 I'm not, I can't pay attention.

00:17:39.000 Like, there's something wrong with me.

00:17:41.000 Like, I'm not, I'm just going to be one of those people that's just kind of a fringe person that's never, you know, never fits in anywhere.

00:17:47.000 I'm like, okay, this is who I am.

00:17:49.000 I'll just get some weird, odd jobs to feed myself with.

00:17:53.000 Like, this is literally how I was thinking about my future.

00:17:55.000 And look at you now.

00:17:56.000 Well, I got lucky and found some things that are unconventional.

00:18:01.000 But there's so many children out there that are told, like, hey, music isn't a career.

00:18:06.000 You know, hey, you know, whatever, acting, writing books, whatever it is, comedy.

00:18:12.000 Somebody is there telling you because they didn't do it that you can't do it.

00:18:17.000 Yeah.

00:18:19.000 It's a bummer.

00:18:19.000 Yep.

00:18:20.000 Yeah.

00:18:20.000 Like, I was an artist when I was young.

00:18:23.000 I wanted to be a comic book illustrator when I was really young. 0.99

00:18:26.000 And I had one shitty high school art teacher who was just such a twat. 0.99

00:18:31.000 He was so bad. 1.00

00:18:33.000 And.

00:18:34.000 I just quit art my senior year. 0.99

00:18:36.000 I was like, I don't want to go to this guy's fucking class. 0.99

00:18:38.000 Like, because it wasn't a big high school and he was the only art teacher. 0.99

00:18:41.000 So I quit.

00:18:43.000 What did he do?

00:18:44.000 He was just negative.

00:18:46.000 He was like, you can't, because I just wanted to draw what I wanted to draw.

00:18:46.000 Oh.

00:18:49.000 Right.

00:18:50.000 You know, and I was into comic book stuff like Conan the Barbarian and superheroes and stuff like that.

00:18:55.000 And he was like, you're not going to make a living doing that.

00:18:57.000 You're most likely going to have to do like advertisements for like diapers, like diaper ads. 0.99

00:19:03.000 And I was like, fucking diaper ads? 0.98

00:19:04.000 Like, that's his explanation that he used diaper ads. 1.00

00:19:08.000 And I would look at him and he just looked like he looked depressed.

00:19:11.000 He was like this skinny guy with a pot belly.

00:19:14.000 Well, he's probably an artist that didn't make it as an artist and had to become an art teacher instead.

00:19:18.000 Exactly.

00:19:19.000 And so he's like bitter and.

00:19:21.000 Yeah.

00:19:21.000 Well, we realized that too.

00:19:22.000 We looked at his actual art.

00:19:24.000 We were like, huh.

00:19:26.000 This ain't very good.

00:19:27.000 Not so inspired.

00:19:29.000 There's not a lot of fire in that belly. 0.55

00:19:31.000 You know, he's just a boring dude who's just like depressed and sad and he probably drank a lot.

00:19:36.000 We see a skinny person with a big belly.

00:19:38.000 Usually that's like booze. 0.99

00:19:39.000 Yeah.

00:19:40.000 Yeah.

00:19:41.000 This episode is brought to you by Armra.

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00:20:09.000 Most stuff falls off, but I am still taking this.

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00:20:17.000 Go to armra.com slash Rogan.

00:20:20.000 I mean, there's a lot of people like that, even in the music industry.

00:20:23.000 I feel like a lot of the experts in the game are just people who were artists and didn't make it, and now they're bitter, and then they try to tell you how everything should go or how you should do everything.

00:20:36.000 Oh, yeah.

00:20:38.000 That got me for a while when I was really young.

00:20:42.000 I feel like those people are like weights that you have to carry. 0.99

00:20:46.000 You build up resistance, you build up strength from dealing with those bullshit people. 1.00

00:20:52.000 Because they're stupid ideas. 1.00

00:20:54.000 They actually get in your head and you have to wrestle with them. 1.00

00:20:56.000 For sure.

00:20:56.000 Especially when you're super young.

00:20:58.000 Like I was, when I first moved to LA, I was 17.

00:21:01.000 Whoa.

00:21:01.000 By yourself?

00:21:02.000 Yeah.

00:21:03.000 Whoa.

00:21:04.000 Yeah.

00:21:04.000 That's crazy.

00:21:05.000 And I was like, very green, small town Midwest girl.

00:21:09.000 Whoa.

00:21:09.000 Just dropped in LA and like.

00:21:11.000 And really pretty.

00:21:13.000 That's a terrible combination.

00:21:14.000 Oh, it was weird.

00:21:15.000 Really pretty, 17. 0.99

00:21:17.000 It was weird as fuck. 0.99

00:21:18.000 Midwest. 1.00

00:21:19.000 Oh, God.

00:21:20.000 Yeah.

00:21:21.000 Look at you now, shaved head, tattoo on it.

00:21:23.000 Yeah.

00:21:27.000 Yep.

00:21:28.000 Yeah, you came out on the other end good, though.

00:21:30.000 But isn't it true, though, that like those kind of experiences, like experiencing like oddity and uncertainty and just like the weirdness of like moving to a place like LA when you're 17, like when you get through it on the other end, you're a different person.

00:21:47.000 You're a stronger person.

00:21:48.000 For sure.

00:21:49.000 I mean, every experience makes you stronger, right?

00:21:52.000 So, yeah, I just threw myself into this.

00:21:57.000 Crazy mix in LA.

00:22:00.000 And it was culture shock.

00:22:03.000 So, what year was this when you moved to LA?

00:22:06.000 So, I was 17.

00:22:07.000 So, and I was in the graduate class of 2004.

00:22:14.000 So, somewhere around that time.

00:22:17.000 2003, 2004.

00:22:18.000 Yeah.

00:22:20.000 And I lived with the guitar player from Culture Club.

00:22:25.000 Really?

00:22:25.000 Roy Hay.

00:22:26.000 Wow.

00:22:27.000 Yeah.

00:22:28.000 He had a house in Venice and I crashed in it.

00:22:30.000 On his couch, and it was wild.

00:22:35.000 Culture wild.

00:22:35.000 Boy George.

00:22:37.000 Do you hang out with Boy George?

00:22:38.000 No, never.

00:22:40.000 No, he wasn't there.

00:22:41.000 You ever meet him?

00:22:41.000 Guitar player on the phone.

00:22:43.000 Oh, no, yeah, it was wild.

00:22:48.000 There was a murder next door the first month I moved in.

00:22:54.000 Yeah, there's like a bloody mattress in the little alleyway between the houses, and they taped, they caution taped off all the houses.

00:23:02.000 They had to question us about, like, did we hear screaming?

00:23:05.000 And so I was just like sitting there on the steps, not allowed to leave while they were taking the body out.

00:23:13.000 And then the coroner, after he put the body in the truck, he came and sat next to me on the steps and started like hitting on me.

00:23:22.000 He was like, You're a very beautiful girl.

00:23:27.000 I'm like, You were just touching a dead body.

00:23:29.000 This is so weird.

00:23:30.000 Where am I?

00:23:32.000 Oh, God.

00:23:33.000 That's crazy.

00:23:34.000 Yeah.

00:23:35.000 Welcome to LA.

00:23:35.000 Yeah, he got over that dead body real quick.

00:23:39.000 Yeah.

00:23:40.000 Hey, where are you from?

00:23:41.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:23:42.000 Fucking blood in his fingernails. 1.00

00:23:43.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:23:45.000 Gross.

00:23:48.000 Wow, that's a movie. 0.97

00:23:50.000 Mm hmm.

00:23:50.000 Yeah.

00:23:52.000 Wow.

00:23:53.000 LA in 2003 was still okay.

00:23:57.000 It was like not bad, you know?

00:23:57.000 Yeah.

00:24:00.000 It was still traffic and everything, but it hadn't gone completely sideways like it is now.

00:24:06.000 It's so weird when I go back.

00:24:07.000 I'm like, this is unrecognizable.

00:24:09.000 It doesn't seem like the same place.

00:24:12.000 Every sign has a for, every building has a for lease sign on it.

00:24:15.000 It's like, this is nuts.

00:24:16.000 Like, It's hard to believe that this is that you're like when you see things like Detroit.

00:24:23.000 Did you ever see that movie, Roger and Me?

00:24:25.000 It's a great movie.

00:24:26.000 It's Michael Moore, and it's all about the collapse of the Detroit automotive industry and how they moved all the plants to Mexico.

00:24:36.000 And when they did that, the entire economy of Detroit and Flint, Michigan, and all these areas just collapsed like tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people out of work.

00:24:49.000 Instantaneously, with no prospects.

00:24:52.000 The industry was gone. 0.78

00:24:53.000 And it's a horrific depiction of what can happen when greedy people decide that they'll completely sabotage an entire city so they can make X amount more dollars and move all the factories to places where you can pay people a dollar a day or whatever the fuck they pay them.

00:25:16.000 And I had seen that, but I was like, Oh, that was, you know, 1980s or 1960s, whenever, when the place was booming.

00:25:27.000 Like, Detroit was, at one point in time, I think the third richest city in the world.

00:25:32.000 Whoa.

00:25:33.000 Yeah.

00:25:34.000 See if that's true.

00:25:35.000 I'm pretty sure that's true.

00:25:36.000 But it was all just because the automobile manufacturing.

00:25:41.000 I mean, everything was made there Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, all of our big cars.

00:25:47.000 And it just, whoop, gone.

00:25:48.000 Yeah.

00:25:49.000 Like a ghost town.

00:25:50.000 Like a ghost town.

00:25:52.000 You know, and when I visited Detroit to work, I'd be like, wow, this is crazy.

00:25:56.000 You see trees growing through the middle of houses, the houses are collapsed, and like literally nobody took care of the house, it was abandoned.

00:26:04.000 So, trees grow through the roofs, and they're reclaiming these homes.

00:26:09.000 You see, you go by these gigantic, like, buildings, like industrial buildings, and all the windows are broken.

00:26:17.000 Yeah, everything.

00:26:18.000 No reliable historical source shows Detroit as the third richest city in the world.

00:26:23.000 The common claim is actually that Detroit was the richest city in the world, or at least the U.S. was one of the highest living standards around the 1950s, not third.

00:26:32.000 Oh, so it was the richest?

00:26:33.000 Well, that's the common claim.

00:26:37.000 What it actually was.

00:26:39.000 Very high medium household income, around 20% above U.S. average, and it's all because of the automotive industry.

00:26:44.000 One of the highest homeownership rates in the country.

00:26:47.000 Because of this, many commentators and locals' histories describe Detroit as the wealthiest city in the U.S. and, by some accounts, having the highest standard of living in the world in that era.

00:26:59.000 Articles and tours about Detroit repeatedly refer to it as the wealthiest city in the world in the 1950s, not as the third wealthiest.

00:27:08.000 So, is that true then that it was the wealthiest city in the world?

00:27:14.000 Tours about Detroit's history.

00:27:16.000 The third richest city in the world line seems to come from its memes, social posts.

00:27:21.000 Okay.

00:27:21.000 These posts are often mixed or exaggeration of real facts.

00:27:24.000 Detroit truly was exceptionally rich by U.S. standards, but rankings like third in the world are not backed by clear.

00:27:31.000 Clearly documented global per capita income comparisons from that period.

00:27:38.000 Well, so it was rich.

00:27:39.000 It was very wealthy.

00:27:40.000 Very wealthy.

00:27:41.000 Either way.

00:27:42.000 And when you think about the rest of the world, you know, like, you know, people love to use that term, the 1%, like the top 1%.

00:27:49.000 Do you know what that is?

00:27:50.000 Like for the world?

00:27:52.000 No, no.

00:27:53.000 What is it?

00:27:54.000 No freaking way.

00:27:54.000 $34,000.

00:27:57.000 Yeah.

00:27:57.000 $34,000 is the top 1% of Earth.

00:28:02.000 That's crazy.

00:28:03.000 Crazy.

00:28:05.000 What is it for the U.S.?

00:28:05.000 That's crazy.

00:28:08.000 1%?

00:28:09.000 If I had a guess, let's guess.

00:28:16.000 I bet it's like $500,000 a year.

00:28:21.000 Do you think?

00:28:22.000 $250,000.

00:28:22.000 What do you think it is?

00:28:24.000 $250,000?

00:28:25.000 What do you think it is, Jamie?

00:28:27.000 I don't know, though.

00:28:27.000 That's my guess.

00:28:29.000 $150,000?

00:28:30.000 Top 1%?

00:28:30.000 Yeah.

00:28:32.000 Yeah.

00:28:33.000 Wow.

00:28:34.000 All right, let's throw that in perplexity.

00:28:34.000 I'm guessing.

00:28:36.000 I was guessing. 1.00

00:28:37.000 Throw that sucker in perplexity. 0.99

00:28:37.000 I didn't want to look. 0.99

00:28:39.000 What did I say?

00:28:40.000 Half a million?

00:28:41.000 Top 1% of the U.S., $700,000.

00:28:41.000 Yeah.

00:28:44.000 Dang.

00:28:44.000 You're the closest.

00:28:44.000 Yeah.

00:28:45.000 Mm hmm.

00:28:47.000 700 to 800,000 or more, depending on the data source and year.

00:28:51.000 That's pretty crazy.

00:28:52.000 So, for the United States, $790,000 per year, most analysis.

00:29:01.000 And then for the rest of the world, $34,000.

00:29:05.000 Wow.

00:29:06.000 Crazy.

00:29:08.000 That's wild.

00:29:09.000 Yeah.

00:29:11.000 That's capitalism.

00:29:12.000 Yeah.

00:29:14.000 But I bet there's probably some truth to it in order. 0.99

00:29:20.000 For the United States to have such a high income, these other countries have to get fucked over. 0.85

00:29:25.000 Globally, you only need an annual income on the order of $60,000 to $70,000 to be the top 1%. 0.92

00:29:32.000 Oh, it used to be 34%.

00:29:33.000 I mean, I'm sure it fluctuates.

00:29:37.000 One widely cited analysis found that in 2012, annual income of $50,000 was enough to be in the global 1%.

00:29:43.000 So where's that $34,000 come from?

00:29:45.000 It was a meme that was going around, too. 1.00

00:29:47.000 Oh, fucking memes. 0.99

00:29:48.000 It might have been kind of true, but again, Yeah, memes. 1.00

00:29:51.000 I saw it repeated by someone very intelligent.

00:29:54.000 I've looked it up before, but I think it was a meme.

00:29:56.000 Okay.

00:29:58.000 Either way.

00:29:59.000 I get those memes get me all the time.

00:30:02.000 I'm like, babe, look at this.

00:30:04.000 And then you go to the comments and it's like, all fake.

00:30:07.000 Yeah, there's a lot of that.

00:30:09.000 But, you know, that's the dirty thing about what they did with Detroit.

00:30:13.000 Like, they decided that they'll take advantage of these people that are ultra poor, that are willing to work with.

00:30:20.000 And it's not just.

00:30:21.000 That they get paid a dollar a day or whatever they get paid.

00:30:25.000 There's no health care.

00:30:26.000 There's no benefits.

00:30:28.000 There's no retirement.

00:30:29.000 There's no dental.

00:30:30.000 There's no nothing.

00:30:31.000 You just get that money and then figure it out on your own.

00:30:35.000 And then you buy a Ford car and you think it's made in America.

00:30:41.000 Commonly repeated claim the annual income about $34,000 US puts you in the top 1% of the world.

00:30:47.000 But this comes from rough, older, viral estimates.

00:30:50.000 It's not based on current, rigorous, global data.

00:30:53.000 More careful tools and data sets now suggest that $34,000 places you well above the global median, but likely closer to roughly the top 5% to 10% worldwide rather than the top 1%.

00:31:08.000 Okay, so it appears in social posts.

00:31:12.000 Yeah.

00:31:13.000 60 is still like.

00:31:14.000 Right, you're barely getting by. 0.99

00:31:15.000 If you make $50,000 in America, like you're fucking struggling. 0.99

00:31:15.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:31:19.000 Yeah.

00:31:19.000 Unless you're super young, you don't have any education.

00:31:22.000 And what do they pay teachers?

00:31:24.000 That's a good question.

00:31:25.000 Like, what's the average public school teacher salary in America?

00:31:30.000 Let's guess.

00:31:32.000 You think it's like 60 grand?

00:31:33.000 I think it's about that.

00:31:34.000 I bet it's about that.

00:31:36.000 Yeah.

00:31:36.000 I had to guess.

00:31:38.000 Might be less, actually.

00:31:41.000 What is it?

00:31:44.000 $74,000.

00:31:49.000 Public school teachers now average $74,000 to $75,000 per year.

00:31:54.000 So that's like, you know, you're okay.

00:31:57.000 Depends on where you live.

00:31:58.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:31:59.000 Well, if you live in New York, you're fucked. 1.00

00:32:01.000 If you live in New York, you live in a box. 1.00

00:32:01.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:32:03.000 Yeah.

00:32:04.000 Yeah.

00:32:04.000 That's pretty good for Wisconsin.

00:32:07.000 Okay.

00:32:08.000 State averages.

00:32:10.000 Lowest paying states to above $90,000 and the highest paying ones like California and New York.

00:32:15.000 So, California and New York, $90,000.

00:32:18.000 One estimate says, though, it's way lower.

00:32:21.000 Oh, starting teacher pay significantly lower than the overall average.

00:32:25.000 National estimate, the average starting teacher salary about $48,000.

00:32:29.000 Wow.

00:32:30.000 Meaning it takes years of experience and often advanced degrees to reach or exceed that $74,000 average.

00:32:37.000 So, if you get like really intelligent people, even if they love children, they're like, I can't do this.

00:32:42.000 I can't live like this.

00:32:43.000 Yeah.

00:32:44.000 You start off at $48,000 a year. 0.98

00:32:46.000 That's fucking bonkers. 0.96

00:32:49.000 That's not even $1,000 a week. 0.99

00:32:50.000 And then you have taxes.

00:32:52.000 And then you have an apartment.

00:32:53.000 And then you have food.

00:32:55.000 And then you have a car.

00:32:56.000 Kids.

00:32:57.000 Oh.

00:32:57.000 Yeah.

00:32:59.000 Oh.

00:33:00.000 How do people do it?

00:33:00.000 Well, it's just weird that we put our priorities in strange places.

00:33:08.000 Like the amount of money that goes through various corporations and NGOs and the amount of loans that all these different. 0.99

00:33:17.000 Fucking shit that where our tax dollars go, and you look at that and you're like, that seems so short sighted. 0.99

00:33:26.000 Very. 1.00

00:33:27.000 Yeah, no politician runs on that.

00:33:29.000 No politician's like, we need to really find the best teachers and pay them the most amount of money that we can afford to make sure that we get the best and the brightest. 1.00

00:33:39.000 Everybody's like, fuck you. 1.00

00:33:42.000 It's weird. 1.00

00:33:43.000 Yeah, it is.

00:33:45.000 People are strange.

00:33:46.000 Yeah.

00:33:47.000 I wish you could, like, Check boxes of where you want your tax dollars to go.

00:33:52.000 Oh, 100%.

00:33:53.000 Yeah.

00:33:54.000 I want it to go to education or whatever.

00:33:56.000 Yeah.

00:33:57.000 Imagine if that was an option.

00:33:58.000 If when you voted, you could actually vote on where your taxes went.

00:34:02.000 Yeah.

00:34:03.000 Like, not even voted.

00:34:05.000 It should be actually individually.

00:34:06.000 He might have to pee.

00:34:10.000 He's acting, you know.

00:34:12.000 Yeah.

00:34:13.000 Let him out.

00:34:14.000 Because generally, he would be chilling by now.

00:34:18.000 And when he huffs like that, he's usually trying to let you know something.

00:34:21.000 Yeah, like, That's what he does when he has to eat.

00:34:23.000 He huffs.

00:34:24.000 He comes around.

00:34:25.000 He's like, I get it.

00:34:27.000 I go, chill out, bro.

00:34:30.000 My dog does that when she senses something outside, like a coyote or something.

00:34:35.000 She starts huffing. 0.72

00:34:36.000 Well, you guys were saying you have one of them giant Caucasian shepherds. 0.93

00:34:41.000 Is that what it is? 0.52

00:34:42.000 It's a Central Asian shepherd. 0.96

00:34:44.000 We have an alibi.

00:34:45.000 I guess there's a lot of different breeds under the Central Asian shepherd.

00:34:50.000 They're all herding dogs, right? 0.60

00:34:52.000 They're like protecting.

00:34:52.000 It's a protection livestock.

00:34:55.000 Yeah.

00:34:56.000 Pull up the image of an alibi dog.

00:34:59.000 Just Google wolf crusher.

00:35:02.000 Is that what they call them?

00:35:03.000 Yeah.

00:35:05.000 How much does it weigh?

00:35:06.000 She's actually on the smaller side. 0.73

00:35:08.000 She's like 105 pounds or something. 1.00

00:35:10.000 Oh, that is smaller. 0.96

00:35:12.000 But her head is so massive. 0.98

00:35:16.000 They get really big.

00:35:19.000 That one can't be real.

00:35:21.000 But they are massive.

00:35:22.000 Like.

00:35:25.000 Oh, so that's what she looks like.

00:35:26.000 Yeah, pretty much. 1.00

00:35:29.000 She's all white. 1.00

00:35:32.000 But those dogs are great for just like keeping track of the property. 1.00

00:35:36.000 Yeah.

00:35:36.000 Look at that image.

00:35:37.000 Is his wolf crutcher in the bottom?

00:35:39.000 The bottom right there?

00:35:40.000 Go to the left.

00:35:40.000 Right.

00:35:41.000 Right.

00:35:42.000 Left of the wolf grinder thing.

00:35:44.000 Yeah, that one right there. 1.00

00:35:45.000 So that I think is like a Turkish kangle. 1.00

00:35:49.000 Which is, I think, the next dog we're going to get because we need another one. 0.99

00:35:49.000 Oh. 0.99

00:35:56.000 Our alibi, Nala, she. 1.00

00:36:00.000 I'm just like such an animal lover. 0.99

00:36:01.000 So she really should be outside living on the ranch, but she sleeps in bed. 0.99

00:36:06.000 Yeah.

00:36:08.000 So, I need an outside dog that's actually watching the livestock because this past couple weeks we lost 12 chickens and four sheep.

00:36:19.000 To what?

00:36:20.000 Coyotes.

00:36:21.000 Wow.

00:36:23.000 Napa.

00:36:23.000 Where do you live?

00:36:24.000 Napa Valley.

00:36:25.000 Wow.

00:36:25.000 You have that many coyotes out there?

00:36:27.000 Oh, they are invading our property right now.

00:36:30.000 It's been, the last few weeks have been really rough.

00:36:33.000 Well, once they know that there's food there, once they taste the blood, they come back every night.

00:36:39.000 Yeah.

00:36:39.000 I lost all my chickens in California.

00:36:42.000 Yeah.

00:36:43.000 We lost a couple of them every now and then.

00:36:46.000 I had a dog.

00:36:48.000 His name is Johnny Cash, and he was a mastiff.

00:36:51.000 And he was a sweetheart of a dog, but he was huge.

00:36:54.000 He was like 140 pounds, solid muscle.

00:36:57.000 And these coyotes made friends with him.

00:37:01.000 And so they would come by the fence and hang out with him.

00:37:04.000 And then eventually he got accustomed to them.

00:37:07.000 And then one day the pool guy accidentally left the gate open.

00:37:11.000 And so he went into the area where the chicken coop is.

00:37:15.000 And the chicken coop was like completely protected, but we had one of our chickens was brooding.

00:37:19.000 Do you know what brooding is?

00:37:20.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:37:20.000 Okay.

00:37:21.000 Of course you do.

00:37:22.000 So when you take chickens, when they're brooding, you have to take them away from the other chickens and you put them in a smaller coop and they have to perch.

00:37:30.000 So if they perch, then they don't think that they're sitting on an egg and then they get over it after a while.

00:37:35.000 Yeah.

00:37:36.000 And the coyote tricked Johnny into smashing that little chicken coop so that he can get the chicken.

00:37:44.000 What do you mean? 0.99

00:37:45.000 I don't know how this motherfucker did it, but it couldn't. 0.99

00:37:50.000 Break down the chicken coop because it was only like 30 pounds. 1.00

00:37:53.000 And so it was over there with Johnny.

00:37:56.000 And all of a sudden, me and my wife and our kids were playing some sort of a like Monopoly or something in the living room.

00:38:04.000 And someone yells coyote.

00:38:07.000 And one of my kids yelled coyote.

00:38:08.000 And we see the coyote running across the backyard with the chicken in its mouth and then leaps onto the top of the fence.

00:38:17.000 I thought we had like this fence that was probably like.

00:38:20.000 Six feet tall, or something like that, like wrought iron fence.

00:38:22.000 I'm like, I don't keep the coyotes out.

00:38:24.000 No, it leapt like a ballerina, like a gymnast, toes to the top of the fence, and then off with the chicken in its mouth.

00:38:32.000 And part of me was like so impressed that it did that, I wasn't even mad. 1.00

00:38:36.000 But I was like, what the fuck? 0.99

00:38:38.000 I was like, how did he get that? 0.99

00:38:39.000 So we go outside, and there's Johnny standing there in front of this destroyed chicken coop, which clearly he did.

00:38:47.000 Yeah, because the coyote couldn't have done that.

00:38:48.000 Yeah.

00:38:49.000 And so then he realized that, um, Chickens are to be killed.

00:38:54.000 So, someone left the gate open again and he decided to just go right through the big chicken coop and he killed nine of them before one of my daughters was screaming, Johnny's in the chicken coop.

00:38:54.000 Oh no.

00:39:08.000 No.

00:39:09.000 And yeah, he made a mess out of it.

00:39:11.000 That's awful.

00:39:12.000 Well, he didn't know.

00:39:13.000 I know, but.

00:39:15.000 My chickens are like my pets.

00:39:17.000 I like to snuggle with them and stuff.

00:39:19.000 We lost one to a bobcat last week.

00:39:21.000 Yeah, we had some bobcats take some of ours too.

00:39:24.000 Yeah.

00:39:24.000 And we lost one to a fox.

00:39:26.000 We lost one to a fox like a couple weeks ago.

00:39:29.000 Do you free range your chickens?

00:39:30.000 Yeah.

00:39:31.000 You let them out of the coop every day?

00:39:32.000 Yeah.

00:39:32.000 They get out of the coop and then we bring them in at night.

00:39:35.000 But the, you know, fucking animals, they figure it out. 1.00

00:39:38.000 Yeah, so like last week, because we let the chickens out every morning. 1.00

00:39:43.000 It was 6 30 in the morning, and this coyote came and killed 12, like back to back.

00:39:49.000 Just ripped them up.

00:39:50.000 Well, on the cameras, we only saw one.

00:39:54.000 Wow.

00:39:55.000 Yeah.

00:39:55.000 So it was like surplus killing.

00:39:57.000 Yeah, thrill killing.

00:39:59.000 Well, they don't, they kill and then they leave them there and then they go back and get them later.

00:40:04.000 You know, they do that with cats, you know.

00:40:06.000 I mean, mountain lions do that for sure.

00:40:08.000 But, yeah, it was weird.

00:40:13.000 He just killed them all and then took like a few of them with him, left some of them. 1.00

00:40:20.000 Motherfuckers. 1.00

00:40:21.000 It was awful. 1.00

00:40:22.000 I was broken because it took my favorite chicken, and her name was Big Cheeks.

00:40:29.000 She was sweetest. 1.00

00:40:30.000 She would like come like a dog.

00:40:32.000 You could like call her name, and she would come to you.

00:40:34.000 Do you eat chicken?

00:40:35.000 Yeah, my chickens. 0.99

00:40:37.000 I don't eat my chickens either, but it's always weird because my wife treats the chickens like they're little babies. 0.99

00:40:42.000 Like, hey, girls, hey, girls. 1.00

00:40:43.000 Like, she takes care of them and all that stuff. 0.99

00:40:46.000 And then we'll be eating chicken.

00:40:48.000 Yeah.

00:40:51.000 It's odd.

00:40:52.000 It's odd.

00:40:52.000 Yeah.

00:40:53.000 I mean, we have cows too, and I eat beef.

00:40:56.000 Do you eat your cows?

00:40:58.000 Well, they're not technically our cows.

00:40:59.000 So we have like an arrangement with a cattle guy, and he just uses our property to graze them.

00:41:05.000 Okay.

00:41:05.000 Because we need the cows because we have a biodynamic vineyard.

00:41:10.000 And so we use the cows in the vineyard, um, like for a few months out of the year just because it creates like a great ecosystem and also like their footprints make little puddles and the water gathers because we're also dry farmed.

00:41:25.000 And so, what's that mean?

00:41:27.000 We don't water our grapes.

00:41:29.000 Really?

00:41:30.000 Yeah.

00:41:31.000 So, um, why is that?

00:41:34.000 I'm not the wine expert, but I think it's because, uh, you get like a better flavor profile if you like.

00:41:43.000 It's more concentrated if you don't like overload them with water.

00:41:48.000 Um, and also it makes the vines struggle in a good way, so it makes them reach deeper, like the roots reach deeper into the ground.

00:41:56.000 And so you get more like flavor, I guess.

00:42:00.000 And so, this is your own wine?

00:42:03.000 So, we don't make the wine, we sell the grapes to, um, I think we have five different winemakers now.

00:42:09.000 They're all doing single estate, uh, wines from our property.

00:42:13.000 Um, So, they're not blending it with anything.

00:42:17.000 So, you can drink the wine from our property, but it's not our label because I don't want to go out there and sell wine and make people taste my wine.

00:42:24.000 And I don't want to go down that whole marketing.

00:42:28.000 It's like I have a whole other job.

00:42:29.000 I don't need that one.

00:42:31.000 We just handle the farming.

00:42:33.000 That's cool, though.

00:42:34.000 If somebody wanted to buy wine from your property, like what are the wines?

00:42:38.000 Well, our property is called Glass Rock.

00:42:41.000 And so, Pilcro Glass Rock.

00:42:45.000 Tansy Glass Rock.

00:42:47.000 Oh, so they all say Glass Rock on the farm?

00:42:49.000 Yeah, I'm sorry.

00:42:50.000 They have like their brand name or whatever, and then underneath it'll say like the vineyard site.

00:42:56.000 So if you get it from a Glass Rock.

00:42:58.000 I'm going to buy some wine from your farm.

00:43:00.000 Oh, I'll send you some.

00:43:01.000 Do you like wine?

00:43:02.000 I do.

00:43:03.000 Oh.

00:43:03.000 I do.

00:43:04.000 Okay, I'm going to just mail you a package of all of the wines from our property.

00:43:04.000 I like wine.

00:43:09.000 Okay, cool.

00:43:11.000 It's all Cabernet, but we're taking like an old world approach to it because Napa cabs are like super powerful, tons of alcohol, and that's not really my style.

00:43:21.000 I like like French and Italian wines usually.

00:43:25.000 And so all the winemakers we're working with are taking that approach.

00:43:29.000 So we're picking a little bit earlier, lower sugars, lower alcohol.

00:43:33.000 It's really delicious, delicate, beautiful wine.

00:43:36.000 How did you get involved in this?

00:43:40.000 Well, I got really into wine in my 20s.

00:43:46.000 And then I took a trip to Napa for a birthday.

00:43:51.000 And it's so beautiful there.

00:43:53.000 Have you been to Napa?

00:43:54.000 It's gorgeous.

00:43:54.000 Oh, yeah.

00:43:55.000 So I just fell in love with the area.

00:43:58.000 And then I met the love of my life at the grocery store there.

00:44:03.000 As I was buying a watermelon and he asked if he could carry my melon for me.

00:44:08.000 And that was his pickup line.

00:44:10.000 I actually turned him down.

00:44:13.000 That's much better than a corn.

00:44:13.000 I turned him down though.

00:44:15.000 I said no.

00:44:16.000 Yeah.

00:44:17.000 But we, Carlo Mondavi is his best friend.

00:44:23.000 Gina Mondavi.

00:44:24.000 Mondavi Wines?

00:44:25.000 Yeah.

00:44:26.000 So he's grandson of Robert Mondavi.

00:44:30.000 And so they're like best friends.

00:44:33.000 And Carlo, I was living in Park City, Utah at the time.

00:44:37.000 And Carlo had a house in my neighborhood.

00:44:40.000 So that was like our mutual connection friend.

00:44:45.000 And so I would just come to Napa to visit Carlo and he would teach me about all the wine stuff.

00:44:53.000 And that's how I met Elliot when we were at the grocery store.

00:44:57.000 And then a year later, we got together officially.

00:45:03.000 We just kind of like kept in touch.

00:45:05.000 I was married at the time, he was in a relationship.

00:45:08.000 So it was very dramatic.

00:45:11.000 But long story short, it was very dramatic. 1.00

00:45:14.000 Turned into a crazy divorce, five year lawsuit, all this crazy shit. 0.99

00:45:18.000 But anyway, those are fun. 0.99

00:45:20.000 Yeah, it was fantastic.

00:45:22.000 So then I moved to Napa and moved in with Elliot a year after we met.

00:45:29.000 And so then we, but we lived in St. Helena, which is like a town up the valley from Napa proper.

00:45:36.000 And it was like a 400 acre ranch out in the middle of nowhere.

00:45:41.000 Um, and we had like a 400 square foot house, like a little tiny cabin basically that we lived in.

00:45:46.000 And after a while, like getting cats and stuff, I was like, this is really small.

00:45:51.000 And I have like, I have to make music, I have to record, and like having a studio in a 400 square foot house, it was just, you know.

00:45:58.000 So then we ended up, um, buying this house down in Napa and we bought it for the house, but there was a vineyard there.

00:46:06.000 And so we were like, we got to figure out what to do with the vineyard.

00:46:08.000 And it was conventionally farmed up to that point.

00:46:11.000 Um, Conventionally meaning irrigated.

00:46:14.000 Like irrigated, they use pesticides, like pretty much most of the vineyards.

00:46:23.000 Yeah.

00:46:25.000 But we're very all about organic and everything.

00:46:28.000 That's great too because one of the things that we were reading the other day was about glyphosate in California wines and that they had tested a bunch of California wines and all of them had glyphosate in it.

00:46:39.000 Yeah.

00:46:40.000 So we don't use any of that.

00:46:41.000 That's awesome.

00:46:42.000 We're very anti.

00:46:42.000 Yeah.

00:46:44.000 So we transformed the vineyard.

00:46:46.000 Into this biodynamic, organically farmed.

00:46:50.000 Did you know how to do that before that, or did you read books?

00:46:52.000 How'd you find out how to do it?

00:46:53.000 No, we hired a farmer for a while from France.

00:46:59.000 That was his like forte, basically.

00:47:03.000 So we transformed the vineyard, and then now Elliot's out there doing a lot of the farming.

00:47:07.000 Obviously, we have help.

00:47:10.000 It's because we have like something like nine acres planted of vineyard.

00:47:16.000 And so we have help.

00:47:17.000 But he's out there running the tractors and stuff.

00:47:21.000 Wow.

00:47:22.000 Yeah.

00:47:25.000 He's always done a lot of tractor work, but not ever in a vineyard.

00:47:30.000 So it's all new to us, but it's fun.

00:47:34.000 That life of being on a piece of land and growing something there and living with animals, that is the romantic life that everybody thinks about.

00:47:45.000 It really is.

00:47:45.000 Is it that cool?

00:47:46.000 Yeah, it's awesome.

00:47:48.000 You got to come.

00:47:49.000 I think you'll love it.

00:47:50.000 It sounds amazing.

00:47:51.000 I want to do that.

00:47:52.000 I've thought about doing that many times, like buying a ranch, living on a ranch.

00:47:55.000 It's just like.

00:47:57.000 I get terrified of like adding one more thing to my life that will probably push out some things or eat up time.

00:48:06.000 I just don't know where I'm getting that time from.

00:48:09.000 That's the only hesitation that I have.

00:48:11.000 You just hire help.

00:48:13.000 Yeah, but then you have to talk to them and you have to deal with them.

00:48:15.000 Yeah, you have to manage it all. 1.00

00:48:16.000 You have to deal with like interpersonal drama between the help and like, Mike's a piece of shit. 1.00

00:48:20.000 Let me tell you. 1.00

00:48:20.000 Like, oh, fuck. 1.00

00:48:22.000 You know what I mean? 1.00

00:48:23.000 Yeah.

00:48:23.000 It's worth it, though.

00:48:24.000 Honestly, it really is.

00:48:26.000 It's so peaceful.

00:48:27.000 Like, especially.

00:48:29.000 Being in the industry, I'm in going out and like touring and just being in big cities and then coming home to this like peaceful, serene ranch life.

00:48:38.000 It's the perfect balance.

00:48:39.000 Yeah, it's the perfect balance.

00:48:40.000 Yeah.

00:48:42.000 Well, that is probably the key to staying sane as a performer like having a balance.

00:48:49.000 I think so. 0.88

00:48:51.000 Because so many of them just fucking just stay on the road and you kind of like lose your roots, you lose your grounding. 0.99

00:49:00.000 You're just. 0.99

00:49:00.000 Uh huh. 0.99

00:49:01.000 You're always performing.

00:49:02.000 Well, and for me, living in LA really ruined my creativity.

00:49:07.000 How so?

00:49:09.000 I think a lot of it was like I have a tendency to give everybody too much power.

00:49:17.000 So, all these so called experts, listening to their opinions about what I was doing, just got in my head.

00:49:24.000 And so, removing myself, being able to remove myself from those characters and personalities telling me what they thought I should be doing, like, Writing about singing about dressing whatever I just I need to like have open spaces to really hear my own inner voice and like my gut,

00:49:45.000 you know mm-hmm so I left LA when I was 23 and I moved up to Oregon for a while lived in a cabin by yourself.

00:49:58.000 Yeah, really how'd you find it?

00:50:03.000 Well, I had I'd been on tour And I was playing keyboards and singing backups for somebody else.

00:50:11.000 So I can back up a little bit.

00:50:13.000 So I got my first record deal when I was 18 or something and put out an album that was with Warner Brothers.

00:50:22.000 Linkin Park signed me.

00:50:25.000 And I was going by the name Holly Brook at the time.

00:50:27.000 That's my first and middle name.

00:50:29.000 And so I put out an album through that and it completely like flopped and I went broke.

00:50:36.000 And, you know, LA is so expensive.

00:50:39.000 And I had spent all my college savings to move out to LA and make demos and everything.

00:50:44.000 So I had nothing left.

00:50:46.000 And so then I had taken, for the first time in my life, I had to get some jobs, like not just performing.

00:50:55.000 So I worked in Barnes and Noble.

00:51:00.000 I taught gymnastics and I edited porn.

00:51:05.000 You edited porn? 0.99

00:51:07.000 Whoa. 0.88

00:51:09.000 That was a great experience.

00:51:12.000 That's got to be weird.

00:51:13.000 It was weird.

00:51:14.000 Well, how did you take that job?

00:51:15.000 First of all, how did you even find out about that job?

00:51:18.000 Well, it was a Craigslist ad, and it was just like, We need video editors.

00:51:25.000 And I was like, Oh, I can figure that out because I edit in Pro Tools and stuff, music.

00:51:30.000 So it can't be that hard.

00:51:32.000 And they said they would train.

00:51:34.000 So I showed up to the interview in a suit, and they were like, So you know this is adult content?

00:51:43.000 Because it didn't say that in the ad.

00:51:45.000 That's how they brought it up.

00:51:46.000 You know this is adult content? 0.99

00:51:48.000 How the fuck would you know? 0.99

00:51:48.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:51:49.000 And they're like, Are you cool with that?

00:51:51.000 I was like, Yeah.

00:51:52.000 I guess so, because I need the job.

00:51:55.000 And so I just took it. 1.00

00:51:57.000 And it was a nine to five, literally just looking at like the most disgusting shit you can imagine. 0.99

00:52:04.000 Like, two girls, one cup has got nothing on my sauce. 0.99

00:52:07.000 Really? 0.98

00:52:08.000 Yeah. 0.96

00:52:09.000 So it was like hardcore porn. 0.91

00:52:11.000 Hardcore porn.

00:52:12.000 And it was like, it wasn't editing feature films.

00:52:16.000 It was taking like a feature film and then cutting out all the highlights so that I could make like basically reels or like, you know, it wasn't Instagram, but up.

00:52:26.000 Basically, like these little clips that people would search and find, like a cum shot or like a cream pie or whatever search term they would use to find this specific little clip.

00:52:37.000 And so I would put together these little clips and then tag it with all the search terms somebody would use to find it.

00:52:43.000 That was the job.

00:52:45.000 And so it was all just like watch the whole film and pick out all the most disgusting moments you can find and turn that into a clip.

00:52:56.000 Um, And then I started getting this thing called the Tetris effect.

00:53:00.000 Have you heard of that?

00:53:01.000 No.

00:53:01.000 So, like, if you play Tetris for too long, you start seeing like the shapes falling, you hallucinate basically.

00:53:07.000 So, you'll just like be making dinner or whatever, and you're just like hallucinating like the Tetris shapes.

00:53:11.000 But I was hallucinating like gaping buttholes and.

00:53:20.000 Yeah.

00:53:21.000 Oh my God.

00:53:23.000 And so.

00:53:24.000 How long did you do that job?

00:53:25.000 I only lasted two weeks.

00:53:27.000 But it was the best paying job.

00:53:29.000 Out of all of them that I had, because I got paid by how many clips I got done in a certain amount of time.

00:53:35.000 And so I was making like 30 bucks an hour, which is great for a high school dropout, you know?

00:53:41.000 And so it was good money.

00:53:43.000 But I, with the Tetris effect thing happening to me, there was like a light socket over my bed that I had taken the light bulb out of because it was too bright. 0.88

00:53:58.000 And every night when I fell asleep, I would like, Stare at that and see a gaping butthole.

00:54:02.000 I was just like, this is not healthy. 0.88

00:54:09.000 Like, this can't be good for me to continue doing, you know?

00:54:13.000 No.

00:54:13.000 And then I also simultaneously got offered to be a keyboardist for this other singer, Duncan Sheik.

00:54:20.000 He's like a 90s singer, he had a song called Barely Breathing in the 90s.

00:54:26.000 And so I was like, well, that sounds like a better job, you know?

00:54:26.000 And I was a fan.

00:54:30.000 Definitely.

00:54:31.000 And that's music at least.

00:54:33.000 So, I went on tour with him for a while.

00:54:35.000 I don't know if it was like a year or two, but the whole time I was just like, I wish I was making my own music and singing my own music.

00:54:45.000 You know, it started really eating at me being like the backup musician.

00:54:50.000 And so I was like journaling a lot on tour and I wrote, I just want a cabin in the woods where I can set up my studio and be away from all these people.

00:54:59.000 And basically, I manifested the cabin because.

00:55:05.000 Like six months after I wrote that in my journal, my mom called me and she was like, My friend has this property in Oregon and she has a cabin and she's willing to let you live there for free.

00:55:15.000 You just have to work in her art gallery selling art like twice a week.

00:55:20.000 I was like, that sounds perfect.

00:55:22.000 Wow.

00:55:23.000 So that's what I did.

00:55:24.000 That's how you wound up in Oregon.

00:55:26.000 So that's how I wound up in Oregon.

00:55:27.000 What part of Oregon?

00:55:28.000 It's the southern coast.

00:55:30.000 It was in the middle of nowhere, but it's basically near Bandon.

00:55:33.000 Do you know where Bandon Dunes Golf Course is?

00:55:35.000 Have you heard of that?

00:55:35.000 No.

00:55:36.000 No.

00:55:37.000 It's a really famous golf course, but it was kind of near there.

00:55:41.000 And I lived there for like six months.

00:55:48.000 Set up my studio, kind of like had to rediscover my love for music and fall back in love with it because I had like writer's block and was really depressed.

00:55:57.000 I had also just before that broke up with my boyfriend at the time and was my heart was broken and it was just like I was a mess.

00:56:08.000 But my cabin was this really small one room cabin with one light bulb and there was no bathroom.

00:56:19.000 In it, there was a bathroom outside, and so I had to like walk in the middle of the night if I had to pee.

00:56:25.000 I had to walk to the bathroom, and I was like, Terrified.

00:56:28.000 Was it an outhouse?

00:56:29.000 No, it had a flushing toilet and a shower, but it was like a standalone, but it was separate from the cabin and like down a path by itself, yeah, just a bathroom, yeah.

00:56:41.000 Well, because the cabin was like an old fire lookout that they turned into a cabin, so it didn't have like plumbing or something, so they like added, I don't know, but.

00:56:41.000 I don't know.

00:56:53.000 It was really beautiful.

00:56:54.000 And it was also at the top of a sand dune, so I couldn't drive up to it.

00:56:58.000 So I had to park down the hill and hike to it.

00:57:01.000 How far was the hike?

00:57:03.000 Like a quarter mile.

00:57:05.000 Yeah.

00:57:05.000 Every day?

00:57:07.000 Yeah.

00:57:08.000 And so, and I didn't have like internet or anything up there.

00:57:12.000 Wow.

00:57:13.000 But it was great.

00:57:15.000 But I was terrified of mountain lions the whole time.

00:57:18.000 And so I would like, you know, walking up that hill at night if I came home from whatever.

00:57:24.000 I had my flashlight and was like looking all directions.

00:57:26.000 Like, and I actually made a mask to wear on the back of my head because apparently, like, eye contact with a mountain lion, like, they won't attack.

00:57:37.000 And so they'll because they attack you from behind.

00:57:40.000 So, like, wear a mask on the back of my head.

00:57:42.000 Whoa.

00:57:44.000 Who told you how to do that?

00:57:47.000 Google.

00:57:47.000 I don't know.

00:57:49.000 There's, um, I don't know if it's real, but I did it.

00:57:52.000 It's real for tigers.

00:57:54.000 There's, um, A group of people that work for the government in the Sundarbans.

00:57:59.000 So, the Sundarbans is this area in India that's notorious for tigers eating people.

00:58:07.000 And apparently, over the let's just Google this number because I'll fuck this up too.

00:58:13.000 I think over the last 200 years, something insane like 300,000 people have been killed by tigers.

00:58:21.000 What?

00:58:21.000 In this area.

00:58:22.000 Yeah.

00:58:23.000 That's insane.

00:58:24.000 Well, there's a lot of villages there, and then there's also typhoons.

00:58:24.000 Yeah.

00:58:29.000 And apparently, when these storms happen, sometimes people die and they wind up in the river and, you know, they get washed away.

00:58:36.000 And the tigers apparently developed a taste for human.

00:58:41.000 And then there's also this thought about the water.

00:58:47.000 The water is not fresh, it's brackish.

00:58:51.000 So the water has a high salt content in it, but they still drink it because it's the only salt water.

00:58:55.000 So they're probably constantly irritated.

00:58:57.000 Mm hmm.

00:58:59.000 The Sundarbans are usually prone to attacking, sometimes eating humans, causing dozens of deaths every year.

00:59:06.000 But not every tiger there is a man eater.

00:59:08.000 Aw, sweet.

00:59:09.000 Historical reports suggest Sunderbann tigers regularly killed 50 to 60 people per year, with some estimates over 100, especially including unreported cases.

00:59:21.000 Most recent expert estimates put the average about 22 to 23 human deaths per year in the Sunderbanns far lower than the popular perception.

00:59:30.000 Well, there's like clusters of attacks.

00:59:33.000 Oh, yeah, here it is.

00:59:34.000 Local news has reported clusters of attacks, multiple fishermen and crab catchers killed within a month, showing that risk can spike in certain areas or seasons. 0.99

00:59:42.000 I had a bit in my 2009 comedy special about this attack that happened in the Cinderbands where there were four guys in a boat and this tiger swam out to the boat, killed a guy, dragged him to shore, dropped his body off, jumped back in the water, swam to the boat, killed another guy, jumped back in the water, did it with three guys before he got tired, and the last guy just fucking shit in his pants on the boat by himself. 0.98

01:00:10.000 One guy lived. 0.91

01:00:11.000 So these are the people that would walk around with these masks on the back of their heads.

01:00:15.000 Oh, wow.

01:00:16.000 Yeah.

01:00:16.000 So.

01:00:17.000 I did the right thing.

01:00:18.000 Yeah, you did the right thing.

01:00:19.000 Well, at least for tigers.

01:00:21.000 But there's. 1.00

01:00:21.000 I mean, I'll kill you. 1.00

01:00:22.000 Isn't that crazy? 1.00

01:00:23.000 Like, look at these people all living around there.

01:00:26.000 These are honey collectors in the Sunderbans to prevent tiger attacks. 0.99

01:00:31.000 Like, you gotta know there's a lot of tiger attacks when you're wearing a fucking mask around your head when you're going to work. 0.99

01:00:37.000 Woo! 1.00

01:00:38.000 Yeah, that's creepy.

01:00:41.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:00:42.000 Fucking scary. 0.99

01:00:43.000 It's a crazy way to die, too. 1.00

01:00:46.000 Yeah.

01:00:47.000 Especially a tiger.

01:00:48.000 It's probably pretty quick, though.

01:00:50.000 I guess once they get a hold of you, it's just smush.

01:00:53.000 They get the back of your neck.

01:00:54.000 Yeah, I mean, it probably happens fast.

01:00:57.000 Yeah.

01:00:57.000 Mountain lion would probably take a little longer.

01:00:59.000 I don't know.

01:01:01.000 Yeah.

01:01:01.000 Probably 20 minutes, 15, depending on how much you scream.

01:01:08.000 Yeah.

01:01:09.000 We've had to deal with those, too.

01:01:09.000 Yeah.

01:01:11.000 Did you have a gun or anything when you were up there?

01:01:13.000 No?

01:01:13.000 No.

01:01:14.000 Did you think about getting one?

01:01:17.000 No, I didn't actually.

01:01:19.000 I had an axe.

01:01:22.000 It's better than nothing.

01:01:23.000 I was just chopping wood because I had a little bit of wood.

01:01:25.000 If you were really afraid of mountain lions, how come you didn't get a gun?

01:01:30.000 I don't know.

01:01:31.000 I didn't even think about it.

01:01:33.000 I don't know why.

01:01:34.000 Wow.

01:01:35.000 That'd be the first thing I thought of. 0.99

01:01:39.000 There's not a fucking chance in hell I'm walking around there without a gun. 0.99

01:01:42.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:01:43.000 I don't think at that point I was into guns yet.

01:01:48.000 Are you into them now?

01:01:49.000 Yeah.

01:01:50.000 Yeah?

01:01:50.000 We have a gun range at our house.

01:01:52.000 Oh, that's cool.

01:01:53.000 Yeah.

01:01:54.000 Elliot's very into them.

01:01:57.000 I have a carry permit.

01:01:59.000 Good for you.

01:02:00.000 Yeah.

01:02:01.000 Good.

01:02:04.000 Have you ever seen a big cat in the wild?

01:02:06.000 Oh, yeah.

01:02:07.000 Online.

01:02:08.000 Yeah.

01:02:08.000 What was the biggest one you saw?

01:02:10.000 Like a real big one?

01:02:14.000 I don't think the ones I saw were huge.

01:02:17.000 They were like 100.

01:02:18.000 Maybe 150.

01:02:20.000 The first one I ever saw was just in Colorado.

01:02:24.000 It actually wound up getting one of my dogs.

01:02:26.000 And this was.

01:02:27.000 It got your dog?

01:02:29.000 No.

01:02:29.000 Yeah.

01:02:31.000 Yeah.

01:02:32.000 I lived in a place called Gold Hill that's like north of Boulder.

01:02:37.000 So it's like 3,000 feet above Boulder. 0.98

01:02:40.000 It was fucking beautiful. 0.98

01:02:41.000 Gorgeous. 0.99

01:02:42.000 I would have stayed there.

01:02:43.000 But it's very high altitude.

01:02:47.000 It's like 8,500 feet above sea level.

01:02:49.000 And my wife got pregnant.

01:02:51.000 And when you are pregnant at very high altitude and you're not accustomed to that, it's like you have the flu every day.

01:03:00.000 It's horrible.

01:03:01.000 And we wound up going back to LA.

01:03:04.000 So that was the first one that I saw.

01:03:06.000 And then I saw one in Santa Barbara.

01:03:08.000 I saw one in, and actually in Montecito.

01:03:10.000 We were driving, and I saw this thing running across the road.

01:03:14.000 I was like, oh, is that a coyote?

01:03:15.000 And then I saw the tail.

01:03:17.000 Yeah, the tail's a giveaway. 1.00

01:03:18.000 I was like, oh, it's a fucking mountain lion. 1.00

01:03:20.000 Like, that's wild. 0.99

01:03:21.000 But that one wasn't even that big, that was like 70 pounds.

01:03:24.000 And then a couple of years ago, I was in Utah with my friend Colton, and we were driving around this corner, and he goes, dude, look under that tree.

01:03:34.000 Look at that cat.

01:03:35.000 And we see the glowing eyes of this cat because it was like just starting to get dark out.

01:03:40.000 And I was probably 30 yards from this thing in the truck with the binoculars, just looking at its head. 0.99

01:03:48.000 Its fucking head was massive, like a pumpkin. 1.00

01:03:52.000 Like the muscles, the mandible muscles, were like these things around its head, just a crushing machine. 1.00

01:04:00.000 And these huge forearms.

01:04:02.000 That's what I remember about it the most.

01:04:03.000 His forearms were massive.

01:04:06.000 And he was just sitting there under that tree, staring at us.

01:04:09.000 And I was in the truck. 0.73

01:04:10.000 Like, I wasn't, you know, we were armed and we were in a truck and I was still shitting my pants.

01:04:15.000 I was like, that thing is so big.

01:04:17.000 How much do you think it weighed?

01:04:19.000 At least 180 pounds, maybe 200.

01:04:21.000 It was a big tomcat.

01:04:23.000 Like that one that we have out front, like that, like that size.

01:04:26.000 Wow.

01:04:27.000 Yeah.

01:04:27.000 It was like, that one was one my friend Adam Greentree killed.

01:04:31.000 And he killed that in Colorado.

01:04:34.000 And that one, they had a depredation permit because it was targeting this rancher's cows.

01:04:41.000 And they had tracked it, and that day, as they were tracking it, it had killed one of these cows and just, it was still alive.

01:04:50.000 It just gutted it.

01:04:52.000 It basically took it down and just started eating its organs while it was still alive.

01:04:56.000 Yeah, that's what they do.

01:04:57.000 Yeah.

01:04:58.000 It was pretty rough. 0.94

01:04:59.000 They're monsters. 0.59

01:04:59.000 Yeah. 0.59

01:05:00.000 We had that, we had an issue with mountain lions up at our other property in Napa.

01:05:05.000 We had sheep, and I was actually on tour with.

01:05:12.000 Eminem and got a text from my neighbor that our sheep had had babies on Valentine's Day.

01:05:21.000 And so I was like so excited to get home and take care of these lambs.

01:05:25.000 And I guess one of the lambs was rejected by the mother.

01:05:31.000 And so we had to bottle feed it, which is the best thing ever.

01:05:36.000 I love that.

01:05:37.000 Some people think it's like an unnecessary chore to take care of bottle babies, but I love it. 1.00

01:05:43.000 So like three times a day feeding this thing and she became like a dog. 1.00

01:05:46.000 Like she would follow me everywhere. 1.00

01:05:48.000 She slept on my front porch. 0.79

01:05:51.000 Her name was Valentine.

01:05:52.000 I got a tattoo of her actually right here.

01:05:55.000 And but so like a few months later we had had like maybe 10 lambs at that point, little babies.

01:06:08.000 They're so cute.

01:06:11.000 And like one morning.

01:06:14.000 Oh, well, so the property was like 400 acres, and our house was so small, but we had like other little buildings on the property.

01:06:22.000 So I'd set my studio up in one of the other buildings, and so I would drive up there.

01:06:28.000 It's like a half mile up the driveway.

01:06:31.000 And I was driving one day up to the studio, and I saw this mountain lion crossing our field.

01:06:40.000 And I rushed to get my phone out to take a video of it.

01:06:42.000 Of course, it didn't get a very good shot by the time I got the video.

01:06:47.000 And I turned around and went back to the house.

01:06:49.000 I was like, babe, there's a mountain lion on the property.

01:06:53.000 And I showed him the video, and it was like kind of blurry, you couldn't really tell.

01:06:57.000 And we called our neighbor and I think the sheriff and showed them the video.

01:07:05.000 And everybody was just like, well, nine times out of ten, when people say they see a mountain lion, it's just a bobcat or like whatever.

01:07:11.000 And I was like, no, I know this is a mountain lion.

01:07:13.000 Like, I know what I'm looking at.

01:07:16.000 You know, I saw the long tail, the whole thing.

01:07:20.000 And nobody believed me.

01:07:22.000 Like, it's Bigfoot or something.

01:07:23.000 Like, I'm like, no, I swear it's a mountain lion.

01:07:23.000 Yeah.

01:07:28.000 And Elliot believed me.

01:07:30.000 So we went up and took a little hike up the ravine where I'd seen it walk off to.

01:07:38.000 And I swear that, like, the lion must have been tracking us back to the house because it.

01:07:49.000 That night we were.

01:07:50.000 Because we didn't see it.

01:07:52.000 We went up the ravine and we didn't see the lion anywhere, but we went back home.

01:07:57.000 And then that night we were like.

01:07:59.000 Watching TV and scrolling through Instagram or whatever.

01:08:03.000 And he showed me this. 0.99

01:08:04.000 You know how the Russians, they like become friends with all these crazy animals, like bears and whatever. 0.93

01:08:10.000 So there's like this video of this Russian guy in bed with his mountain lion, like cuddling with it. 1.00

01:08:15.000 It's always Russians. 0.99

01:08:17.000 I know, right? 1.00

01:08:19.000 They're psycho. 1.00

01:08:21.000 They are not regular white people. 1.00

01:08:23.000 No. 0.99

01:08:24.000 And so he's like, he showed me this video and he's like, oh, I could never kill one of these. 1.00

01:08:31.000 Unless they fucked with my family. 1.00

01:08:34.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:08:34.000 That next morning, I take my coffee out onto the front porch like I always did, look down at the sheep pen, and I see this mom sheep laying with her baby that's not moving. 0.99

01:08:45.000 And I was like, something's not right.

01:08:48.000 And I go down there, and sure enough, there's like the fang marks, you know, the deep fang marks in its throat, and it's like stomach eaten out.

01:08:59.000 And the mom would not leave its side.

01:09:02.000 And so I go back to the house and I'm like, babe, we lost it, a lamb to the mountain lion.

01:09:09.000 Nobody believed that I saw.

01:09:11.000 And so we called Fish and Wildlife and they came out and confirmed that it was a mountain lion kill.

01:09:18.000 And so they set up, they were, they put traps in our sheep pen and, you know, to see if we could like trap it and relocate it.

01:09:28.000 And so they stayed on property that night and, I can't even remember all the details, but basically, in the middle of the night, we heard this big bang and we thought, oh, the trap closed.

01:09:43.000 And we opened the door, and it wasn't that.

01:09:45.000 It was like one of our sheep had busted through the fence trying to escape the lion and was standing in our driveway, like right in front of the house. 1.00

01:09:52.000 I was like, oh, fuck. 0.99

01:09:54.000 So then Elliot goes down to the sheep pen and he sees the lion, and it's like just like those glowing eyes, you know? 1.00

01:10:02.000 And then it darts off into the woods.

01:10:05.000 And it had killed another lamb and the trap didn't go off.

01:10:12.000 And so then the guys, the truckers, they came down and they were like, okay, let's hunt this thing, take the dogs.

01:10:22.000 So they had like six dogs.

01:10:24.000 And basically, for the next week, tried to get this lion and couldn't.

01:10:32.000 Like, the dogs were getting all mixed up.

01:10:35.000 They were like wandering off one direction and then going another direction, and they're like, and the trackers were like, This has never happened.

01:10:42.000 Like, they usually get it.

01:10:43.000 Like, what the hell's going on?

01:10:45.000 They were, the dogs were just getting all confused.

01:10:48.000 And we basically, oh, and then another night, Elliot was out there thinking that he heard the guys whistling, but I guess it was the cats whistling.

01:11:00.000 So mountain lions whistle.

01:11:01.000 Do you know about that?

01:11:02.000 Yeah.

01:11:03.000 It's a crazy sound.

01:11:05.000 You can probably look it up.

01:11:07.000 Mountain lion whistle.

01:11:07.000 I need to hear that.

01:11:08.000 Yeah.

01:11:11.000 But he heard whistling and he thought it was the trackers like saying like, we're here.

01:11:16.000 And he like was just standing out there.

01:11:17.000 And then 20 minutes go by and the guys aren't there.

01:11:22.000 And so then they finally pull up and they're like, or he was like, were you guys whistling at me?

01:11:28.000 And they were like, no.

01:11:29.000 Like, did it sound like this?

01:11:30.000 And he was like, yes.

01:11:33.000 And they said, that's the lions.

01:11:34.000 They whistle to communicate with each other.

01:11:38.000 Put the headphones on so you can hear this.

01:11:40.000 Oh.

01:11:49.000 Whoa, yeah.

01:12:12.000 Oh, that's in, that's Tajone Ranch.

01:12:14.000 Yeah, it is, yeah.

01:12:15.000 That, I go to that place.

01:12:17.000 That's in California.

01:12:18.000 That's outside of Bakersfield.

01:12:21.000 I've elk hunted there before.

01:12:22.000 That place, Tajone Ranch, they had one pond where they set up a camera trap, they set up trail cameras.

01:12:30.000 They found 18 different cats on one pond.

01:12:34.000 That's crazy.

01:12:35.000 That's not normal.

01:12:36.000 Oh, they have a lot of cats.

01:12:37.000 Yeah.

01:12:38.000 Well, California doesn't do anything about it.

01:12:39.000 I know. 1.00

01:12:40.000 They're kind of nuts. 0.99

01:12:42.000 Texas has the complete opposite approach. 0.99

01:12:44.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:12:44.000 You just shoot them. 1.00

01:12:45.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:12:46.000 Yeah, you don't have to have a permit.

01:12:47.000 They treat you like a lamb.

01:12:48.000 We got permits.

01:12:49.000 We got permits because they came back and killed every night.

01:12:54.000 And then they took my Valentine.

01:12:56.000 And I was like so heartbroken.

01:13:00.000 There was nothing you could do to like lock them up.

01:13:03.000 Well, I tried to bring Valentine into the house and put her in a kennel in the kitchen, but try sleeping with a screaming lamb.

01:13:12.000 It was like not a thing.

01:13:14.000 We put her back out and she was fine that night.

01:13:18.000 But the trappers just kept saying, no, we got to just leave everything as is and we'll get them.

01:13:25.000 But then, like, after a week of hunting them and nothing, it was like, what are we doing?

01:13:31.000 Like, we should move these sheep.

01:13:32.000 Like, I was fighting for that, but they were just like, no, we got to keep everything as is because if you move them and change what's going on, it'll, like, the cat'll just, like, maybe not come back.

01:13:45.000 For a while, but then it'll come back, you know?

01:13:49.000 And so they're like, if we're going to get this thing, we got to leave everything as is.

01:13:54.000 But anyway, so they finally got the cat one night.

01:14:02.000 I actually had to leave town and do a show.

01:14:05.000 And Elliot called me and he actually was the one that shot it.

01:14:12.000 But they got the cat and I felt like this huge sense of relief.

01:14:17.000 And I came home and I thought everything was fine and we weren't going to lose any more lambs.

01:14:23.000 And then, like, a few days later, I woke up and took my coffee outside, and there was a mom sheep dead now, and she was dragged under the fence. 0.99

01:14:33.000 And I was like, what the absolute fuck? 0.98

01:14:36.000 So, turns out there were two cats hunting together, and that's why the dogs were getting confused and couldn't follow the trail. 0.99

01:14:45.000 And I guess, like, in the spring, A lot of times the moms will teach their children how to hunt.

01:14:53.000 And so they weren't even eating the lambs. 0.91

01:14:56.000 They were just killing them.

01:15:01.000 And so it was basically them learning how to hunt, I guess.

01:15:04.000 I don't know.

01:15:06.000 But we got another permit and we got the second lion and then everything was peaceful.

01:15:11.000 But we went down from like 20 to 3 sheep.

01:15:14.000 Oh, God.

01:15:15.000 Yeah, it was awful.

01:15:16.000 Killed 17 sheep? 1.00

01:15:18.000 Holy shit. 1.00

01:15:19.000 That must be terrifying. 0.99

01:15:20.000 And I mean,.

01:15:20.000 Yeah.

01:15:21.000 I'm like out there.

01:15:23.000 I'm scared for myself, even.

01:15:24.000 Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

01:15:25.000 Living out there and like going into my studio and stuff.

01:15:27.000 Like, it was really scary and really heartbreaking.

01:15:33.000 Awful.

01:15:33.000 Yeah, I could imagine.

01:15:35.000 17 is crazy.

01:15:37.000 Yeah.

01:15:38.000 It was really bad.

01:15:39.000 When you shoot the cat, do you have to bring it somewhere and then they have to like register it?

01:15:44.000 Well, they took them, the fish and wildlife took the bodies.

01:15:49.000 But yeah, the dogs, you know, treat them and.

01:15:54.000 Because people eat them.

01:15:57.000 Like, they taste good.

01:15:58.000 Yeah.

01:15:58.000 Really?

01:15:59.000 Yeah, I had some. 1.00

01:16:00.000 Wouldn't it be kind of like tough because they're like so muscly? 1.00

01:16:03.000 Eat the loin. 1.00

01:16:04.000 Like, people eat the roasts.

01:16:07.000 It's like pork.

01:16:09.000 Yeah.

01:16:10.000 My friend Steve described it as a superior pork.

01:16:13.000 Yeah.

01:16:14.000 A lot of people eat mountain lion.

01:16:15.000 Interesting.

01:16:16.000 I know.

01:16:16.000 It sounds crazy.

01:16:18.000 I'd try it.

01:16:19.000 Have you ever had bear?

01:16:20.000 Have you ever had bear?

01:16:21.000 I've never had bear.

01:16:21.000 Bear's good.

01:16:22.000 Really?

01:16:23.000 Believe it or not.

01:16:23.000 Yeah.

01:16:24.000 People like it depends on what the bear is eating.

01:16:27.000 Like if you eat a bear that's eating a lot of fish, it's going to be kind of funky.

01:16:31.000 Or if you catch a bear that's been eating a dead deer for like a couple of weeks, that's not good.

01:16:37.000 You know?

01:16:37.000 Yeah.

01:16:37.000 Or a moose.

01:16:38.000 Like a dead moose.

01:16:39.000 That's.

01:16:40.000 Does it taste kind of rotten or something?

01:16:42.000 Yeah, it'll smell rotten.

01:16:44.000 But if you catch one that's been eating blueberries, it's like some of the most delicious meat. 1.00

01:16:49.000 Damn. 0.99

01:16:50.000 Yeah, my friend Steve Ranella has a show called Meat Eater, and he was hunting black bears in Alaska over this blueberry patch. 0.99

01:16:59.000 So he shot this blackberry, and he's cooking it, and as he's butchering it, he did it all on camera.

01:17:04.000 As he's butchering it, the fat from the bear is purple with like blueberry.

01:17:11.000 And so, like, the flavor of blueberries was in the meat itself.

01:17:15.000 That's interesting.

01:17:15.000 It's like, it's the most insane meat.

01:17:17.000 It's delicious.

01:17:18.000 I'd try that.

01:17:19.000 Yeah, it's good.

01:17:21.000 Elk is my favorite.

01:17:21.000 I like elk.

01:17:24.000 Where do you guys live?

01:17:25.000 When are you guys going back?

01:17:25.000 You live in Napa?

01:17:27.000 No, tonight.

01:17:27.000 Tomorrow.

01:17:28.000 I've got some.

01:17:29.000 I'll give you some.

01:17:29.000 Really?

01:17:30.000 Yeah, I've got a freezer bag.

01:17:31.000 I have a commercial freezer out here.

01:17:33.000 Oh, sick.

01:17:33.000 There's some elk.

01:17:34.000 I'll hook you up.

01:17:35.000 Let's go.

01:17:36.000 That's by far my favorite meat.

01:17:36.000 Let's go.

01:17:38.000 Yeah.

01:17:39.000 Oh, it's delicious.

01:17:39.000 It's the best.

01:17:40.000 It's the best for you, too.

01:17:41.000 Like, you feel different when you eat it.

01:17:42.000 You're like, whoa.

01:17:43.000 It's like, it's got so much nutrients in it.

01:17:46.000 You've done the access deer hunting in Hawaii?

01:17:49.000 We want to do that so bad.

01:17:51.000 Oh, it's, first of all, if you use a rifle, it's 100% guaranteed.

01:17:56.000 Like, you can't not get a deer.

01:17:56.000 Really?

01:17:58.000 There's so many of them, and you have to kill them. 0.99

01:18:00.000 There's, on Lanai in particular, 30,000 deer and 3,000 people. 0.97

01:18:07.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:18:07.000 Holy shit. 0.99

01:18:08.000 And so in Lanai, you can actually stay at the Four Seasons. 0.99

01:18:11.000 So you stay at this, like, amazing resort, and then you go hunt.

01:18:15.000 That's awesome.

01:18:16.000 Yeah.

01:18:17.000 So I went with, well, we've gone a few years, but I went with a whole group of friends one time.

01:18:23.000 It was like seven of us.

01:18:24.000 We went there and we had the best time.

01:18:27.000 We hunted and then we ate axes deer.

01:18:31.000 And it's like you're overlooking the oceans, this gorgeous paradise.

01:18:36.000 Yeah, that sounds like a great deer.

01:18:40.000 But that's a deer that evolved around tigers.

01:18:44.000 And they are so fast, like unbelievably fast.

01:18:48.000 If you shoot at one that's 30 yards away and it hears the bow go off, it'll be out of the way before the arrow gets to it.

01:18:58.000 What's called jumping the string, they just duck down and take off.

01:19:02.000 It's not like they know an arrow is coming at them, they just know to run.

01:19:06.000 And the way they run is they load up their muscles by getting low and then springing forward.

01:19:11.000 But they do it so fast that, okay, 30, 40 yards, let's say 40 yards.

01:19:17.000 So 40 yards, you've got an arrow that's going 290 feet a second.

01:19:23.000 And from the sound of the bow going off, the pop of the bow going off, they're gone.

01:19:28.000 Which is insane.

01:19:28.000 Yeah.

01:19:29.000 But can you hunt with a rifle out there?

01:19:31.000 Okay.

01:19:31.000 Oh, yeah.

01:19:32.000 That's how they do most of the hunting out there.

01:19:32.000 Oh, yeah.

01:19:34.000 We went and I went with a bunch of very experienced bow hunters, like top of the food chain bow hunters.

01:19:34.000 Okay.

01:19:41.000 And we all got access to deer.

01:19:43.000 But it was a struggle.

01:19:44.000 It's like a lot of them jumped the string.

01:19:47.000 We wound up realizing that the best time to go was at night.

01:19:52.000 Not at night, but.

01:19:53.000 In the afternoon, because in the afternoon it's much windier and so it hides your sound.

01:19:58.000 Oh.

01:19:58.000 Because they're just on edge because they get hunted 365 days a year.

01:20:02.000 There's no off season and they have to hunt them because there's so many of them.

01:20:06.000 Like, you'll like driving at night, you'll stop and turn the headlights to a field, and you just see thousands of eyes.

01:20:14.000 Like, they're infested, infested with delicious animals.

01:20:19.000 And there's no predators, there's zero predators other than people.

01:20:22.000 So, they bring in snipers and people with night vision, and they shoot them at night, and they use headshots.

01:20:28.000 And when you go to like the restaurants in the Four Seasons, they serve access to your.

01:20:33.000 Oh, that's cool.

01:20:34.000 Oh, it's delicious.

01:20:35.000 It's so good.

01:20:36.000 What is that place?

01:20:37.000 Malibu Farms, I think it is. 1.00

01:20:39.000 They have insane venison sliders from Axis Deers. 0.92

01:20:42.000 They are so good.

01:20:44.000 I mean, it's one of the most delicious game animals.

01:20:47.000 But when we went, we did a podcast from there.

01:20:51.000 And, you know, we call it Podcast from Paradise.

01:20:53.000 We're all having a good time.

01:20:55.000 And because after that, 150 different people went the next year.

01:21:01.000 And only one of them was successful with a bow.

01:21:05.000 Oh, wow. 1.00

01:21:05.000 Every other one was like, fuck this. 1.00

01:21:07.000 I'm getting a rifle. 1.00

01:21:08.000 This is ridiculous. 0.97

01:21:09.000 These things are so fast. 0.94

01:21:10.000 But it's an animal that evolved, like I said, around tigers.

01:21:14.000 Yeah.

01:21:15.000 King Kamehameha in Hawaii was given access deer as a gift from the leader of India in the 1800s.

01:21:24.000 That's how they got there. 0.75

01:21:25.000 And then they just took over.

01:21:27.000 Oh, yeah, they took over.

01:21:28.000 Yeah.

01:21:28.000 They're everywhere.

01:21:29.000 Maui has a lot of them, too.

01:21:31.000 But they also have this company called Maui Nui.

01:21:34.000 So, if you love game meat, you can actually buy game meat.

01:21:38.000 So, wild game meat in America, you can't sell.

01:21:42.000 So, if you buy, like, say if you buy elk, like you go to a restaurant, you buy elk.

01:21:46.000 It's farmed.

01:21:47.000 You're getting it from New Zealand.

01:21:49.000 Oh, wow.

01:21:49.000 Most likely.

01:21:50.000 Yeah.

01:21:51.000 Most, I think most of the elk that they serve in restaurants in America is coming from New Zealand.

01:21:57.000 Because New Zealand's a similar situation, no predators.

01:22:01.000 And they brought in all these animals, and then they're just infested.

01:22:04.000 And most of it's probably not even really elk.

01:22:06.000 It's probably stag, which is super similar anyway.

01:22:09.000 But when you get like farm raised elk, that's.

01:22:13.000 You're probably getting it from somewhere else.

01:22:15.000 I mean, they probably have some places that are allowed to sell farm raised elk in America.

01:22:21.000 I don't know which one that would be, but wild game that you hunt, you cannot sell because that's how they almost went extinct in this country.

01:22:33.000 Oh.

01:22:34.000 In the turn of the century.

01:22:35.000 Makes sense.

01:22:36.000 In the beginning of the, I guess, like the 1800s, the beginning of the 1900s, they brought elk to the point of extinction almost.

01:22:44.000 And the same with white-tailed deer.

01:22:46.000 Because they were market hunting.

01:22:48.000 So, because no one had refrigerators, you'd have to get meat all the time.

01:22:52.000 And so they were just shooting all of them.

01:22:54.000 Yeah.

01:22:54.000 Wow.

01:22:55.000 I didn't know that.

01:22:56.000 Yeah.

01:22:57.000 But in Maui, you have so many of them, and then they set up a company called Maui Nui.

01:23:04.000 And Maui Nui, you can buy bone broth, venison bone broth.

01:23:07.000 They have like meat sticks, and you can buy actual venison, and they'll freeze it and then ship it to you.

01:23:14.000 So, if you want wild game, it's like one of the best places.

01:23:16.000 And one of the most delicious wild game, too.

01:23:19.000 Yeah.

01:23:20.000 Axis Deer is delicious.

01:23:20.000 Yeah.

01:23:22.000 We want to do that hunt for sure.

01:23:22.000 Yeah.

01:23:23.000 Oh, it's a great hunt.

01:23:24.000 Yeah.

01:23:25.000 Because you can't, first of all, you're in paradise and you're going to see them.

01:23:29.000 It's not like if you go on an elk hunt, you could be in the mountains for days before you find any elk because you've got to find out where they are.

01:23:37.000 You've got to listen for bugles.

01:23:39.000 You've got to glass a lot.

01:23:40.000 You've got to look around.

01:23:42.000 You might not be successful.

01:23:44.000 If you bring a rifle to Lanai, you 100% are going to be successful. 1.00

01:23:48.000 And you can kill a bunch of them. 1.00

01:23:51.000 And they package it for you and ship it home to you? 1.00

01:23:53.000 Yeah, there's a guy named Bob the Butcher.

01:23:55.000 Shout out to Bob.

01:23:57.000 He'll butcher them for you and package it for you and all that jazz.

01:24:02.000 And if you give it enough time, they'll freeze it.

01:24:04.000 And we actually brought it back to the Four Seasons and they put it in their commercial freezer.

01:24:10.000 They froze it for us and then we, you know, put it in these big Yeti coolers and brought it back on the plane.

01:24:16.000 Nice.

01:24:17.000 Yeah.

01:24:17.000 And you could like literally get a year's supply of your meat in like a few days if you wanted to do that and just eat venison for the rest of the year.

01:24:26.000 Yeah.

01:24:27.000 It's pretty cool.

01:24:28.000 Yeah.

01:24:28.000 We usually try to get a deer every year up in Napa, too.

01:24:32.000 Do you guys go deer hunting?

01:24:35.000 Well, I don't.

01:24:37.000 Elliot does?

01:24:38.000 Elliot does.

01:24:40.000 I help him clean it, though.

01:24:42.000 I've been doing that since I was a little girl.

01:24:43.000 Oh, really?

01:24:44.000 My dad taught me when I was a kid.

01:24:47.000 He hunted a lot, and he would send me on these routes to kick the deer out to him.

01:24:53.000 Oh, okay.

01:24:53.000 So I would do the hiking and kick them out.

01:24:55.000 Push, yeah.

01:24:56.000 And then we would all gather.

01:25:00.000 It was usually around Thanksgiving.

01:25:01.000 We'd all gather in the basement and cut the meat up and skin it and all that.

01:25:07.000 Wow.

01:25:08.000 So I like doing that part.

01:25:09.000 Well, that's cool.

01:25:11.000 It's a great way to be connected to what you're eating.

01:25:14.000 Yeah.

01:25:14.000 It's a totally different experience.

01:25:16.000 You have a different appreciation for it.

01:25:18.000 Oh, yeah.

01:25:18.000 You know, than something you just like buy at the store or in a restaurant.

01:25:24.000 Like, it's totally different appreciation.

01:25:28.000 Oh, 100%.

01:25:28.000 And also, it's like, you know, it's organic, it's an actual wild animal.

01:25:33.000 And it's the best life that this animal is ever going to live, including the best death.

01:25:38.000 Because especially if you.

01:25:40.000 If you're good with a rifle, if you're accurate and you practice, like it's dead, like that.

01:25:45.000 And it's not like getting its guts eaten out by a mountain lion, you know, or anything else that's going to eat it, or old age or winter, all the horrible ways that animals die.

01:25:58.000 Yeah.

01:25:58.000 You know, their teeth grind down to nothing and they essentially starve to death.

01:26:03.000 Yeah.

01:26:05.000 It goes rough.

01:26:06.000 It's a hard life.

01:26:08.000 Yeah.

01:26:09.000 So, how'd you wind up leaving Oregon?

01:26:13.000 So, you're walking a quarter mile every day by yourself with a flashlight trying to avoid being eaten.

01:26:19.000 Yep.

01:26:19.000 How'd you get out of there?

01:26:21.000 Well, I figured out that I needed to find a way to make a living in music.

01:26:29.000 And so I reached out to the only person I had left in my corner musically because, at that point, I had lost my record deal.

01:26:36.000 My lawyer dropped me, my manager dropped me.

01:26:41.000 But I was still technically signed to UMPG Publishing.

01:26:45.000 And, um, So, I reached out to my point person there who I hadn't spoken to in years, and I said, Help me figure out how to make a living in music.

01:26:55.000 I got to figure this out.

01:26:57.000 Because that's the only thing I really know how to do, and I'm a dropout, so I can't really get a good job.

01:27:02.000 Other than editing porn?

01:27:03.000 Yeah.

01:27:04.000 And I don't want to do that.

01:27:07.000 And so I met with her in New York.

01:27:12.000 I flew to New York, and we just sat down and had this long conversation.

01:27:17.000 And I had, ever since I was.

01:27:20.000 Like 13 when I'd first heard Stan by Eminem, I'd always been like, I love that combination of like a pretty, you know, female vocal with hip hop.

01:27:35.000 And so I'd always wanted to do something like that.

01:27:40.000 And so I said, I think I could write hooks for hip hop songs.

01:27:44.000 Like that was kind of like my, what I told her I wanted to do.

01:27:49.000 And she was like, well, we just signed this producer named Alex the Kid and, uh, That's kind of like his wheelhouse, so you guys should meet.

01:27:59.000 And so I flew back to Oregon and she connected us on email.

01:28:07.000 And I would go down to the little cafe to get internet.

01:28:10.000 And so I would just, I emailed him and he emailed me back some beats that he had just made.

01:28:18.000 And I would just sit there with my headphones in the cafe and like hum little melodies into my computer and send them back.

01:28:28.000 But the first one I did was called Love the Way You Lie.

01:28:32.000 And a month after I sent Alex that hook, it was a number one song.

01:28:39.000 Wow.

01:28:42.000 What was that like?

01:28:43.000 It was crazy.

01:28:44.000 Going from like broke and living in the woods in this cabin and then writing a song that literally took over the world.

01:28:54.000 Yeah.

01:28:54.000 So that's kind of what took me out of Oregon.

01:28:57.000 Cause after that, I started getting phone calls, you know, from everybody wanting songs from me.

01:29:04.000 Um, Em had me and Alex come out to work on detox for Dr. Dre.

01:29:13.000 And Puff Daddy wanted a song.

01:29:15.000 That's where Coming Home came in to play.

01:29:19.000 Yeah, it was just crazy.

01:29:22.000 Suddenly, I went from nobody caring to everybody trying to get a song.

01:29:28.000 That's got to be such an insane experience.

01:29:32.000 To be like, what am I doing?

01:29:34.000 I'm out in a cabin.

01:29:36.000 I got to go outside to pee.

01:29:37.000 I got to walk a quarter mile to the house.

01:29:40.000 You're like completely isolated.

01:29:41.000 Did you have any friends out there at all?

01:29:43.000 Yeah, I had a couple friends.

01:29:46.000 I made a couple friends when I was out there.

01:29:49.000 And then all of a sudden, yeah.

01:29:51.000 And all of a sudden, I was, yeah.

01:29:53.000 Off to the races.

01:29:54.000 It was crazy.

01:29:56.000 How did you adjust to that?

01:29:58.000 That had to be very strange.

01:30:00.000 And I also felt so much pressure.

01:30:00.000 It was.

01:30:04.000 Because, like, I definitely had a little imposter syndrome when I wrote that song.

01:30:09.000 Because I was just like, That was too easy.

01:30:11.000 Like, it took me 15 minutes to write that hook.

01:30:13.000 And I sent it off, and suddenly everybody wanted to get a song from me.

01:30:19.000 And I was like, that must have been a fluke.

01:30:20.000 Like, this is never going to happen again.

01:30:22.000 I'm never going to write another one like this or whatever.

01:30:26.000 And so, so many people were just wanting songs.

01:30:29.000 And I felt so much pressure to deliver a hit song every time, you know?

01:30:34.000 And I was always so hard on myself, but that became even worse.

01:30:41.000 Just, I would just put way too much pressure on myself.

01:30:44.000 I got invited to do so many songwriting sessions, but at that point, like, I had pretty much only ever written by myself.

01:30:50.000 And so, being thrown in rooms with songwriters and producers and stuff, I was so shy.

01:30:55.000 Um, I just felt it was always so hard for me to open up creatively in front of strangers.

01:31:02.000 Um, so I would just like walk out of sessions crying and just be like, I suck, I can't do this, you know?

01:31:10.000 It was hard.

01:31:11.000 That was the hardest part for me.

01:31:14.000 Just performing in front of a bunch of people.

01:31:17.000 Just like, yeah, just trying to create hit songs every time I go into a writing session.

01:31:23.000 I just felt like there were such high expectations on what I would deliver.

01:31:28.000 And I can't force creativity.

01:31:30.000 It's like it just happens or it doesn't, you know?

01:31:34.000 But I felt like I had to deliver a hit song every time.

01:31:38.000 And because I put that pressure on myself, it kind of shut down my creativity and it made it really hard.

01:31:45.000 For me to do that.

01:31:47.000 So then I ended up like just leaving a lot of sessions and feeling like I didn't deserve to be where I was and not good enough.

01:31:59.000 How'd you get over that?

01:32:01.000 Um, I didn't really.

01:32:12.000 Yeah.

01:32:14.000 I don't think I ever got over that.

01:32:15.000 I like, I did a lot of these sessions for a while.

01:32:18.000 Because I felt like I had to, and then I just kind of stopped taking them.

01:32:22.000 I stopped agreeing to do them because it was just too much, it was too hard on me.

01:32:26.000 So, explain these kind of sessions.

01:32:29.000 So, you go to a studio with producers, and they essentially say, Okay, let's try to create something.

01:32:39.000 Ready, go.

01:32:40.000 And then you're in there, and your creative process is you by yourself, like trying to connect with emotions and thoughts and ideas.

01:32:48.000 And now all of a sudden, you're around people. 0.99

01:32:50.000 And also, you're a little weirded out because you've been living in a fucking cabin by yourself. 0.99

01:32:57.000 And you're editing porn for two weeks. 0.99

01:32:59.000 And it's like.

01:33:00.000 And I just had this hit song that was huge, it was massive.

01:33:00.000 That.

01:33:05.000 And I just felt like there were such high expectations on me.

01:33:10.000 Right.

01:33:12.000 So it was very hard.

01:33:15.000 Everybody that I've ever met who's really good has imposter syndrome.

01:33:20.000 Yeah.

01:33:21.000 I think it's a part of.

01:33:24.000 Being genuinely creative because I think, like, genuinely creative people don't have that kind of weird ego.

01:33:35.000 We're like, yeah, finally, I'm getting mine.

01:33:37.000 Because some people do have that where they feel like they deserve this. 0.97

01:33:41.000 But I feel like, at least, most genuinely creative people that I've talked to, when something big happens to them, they're like, this is fucking crazy.

01:33:50.000 Like, all of my comedian friends, when they start to hit, like, when something happens, When they get like a viral clip and then they do a Netflix special or something like that, in the beginning, they're like, bro, I'm kind of freaking out.

01:34:02.000 I'm like, we all are.

01:34:03.000 It's okay.

01:34:04.000 Like, this is the thing. 0.94

01:34:06.000 Like, you're going to feel fucking weird. 0.87

01:34:07.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:34:09.000 That thing, whatever it is, that imposter syndrome, I think is a good thing.

01:34:15.000 I think it's a sign that you have a healthy mind, or at least maybe not healthy.

01:34:19.000 Maybe that's the right word.

01:34:21.000 You have a creative mind, you know, and that you're, and also everything.

01:34:27.000 You have a hit song all of a sudden out of nowhere, number one.

01:34:27.000 Completely changes.

01:34:30.000 Like, what the fuck? 0.99

01:34:31.000 Like, that kind of shift in paradigm, like, that is not normal to get adjusted to. 1.00

01:34:36.000 You'd have to be a complete psycho to go, to be like, all right, this is perfect.

01:34:40.000 This is what I've been waiting for. 0.99

01:34:42.000 You know?

01:34:42.000 Yeah.

01:34:43.000 Because everybody, like, sees people either on television or, you know, in the media and you think, that's a different kind of thing than me.

01:34:57.000 I'm not a famous person.

01:34:58.000 I'm not popular.

01:34:59.000 I'm not successful.

01:35:01.000 I'm just me.

01:35:03.000 And then all of a sudden, people know who you are and love you.

01:35:07.000 And you're like, oh my God, I'm a fraud.

01:35:09.000 Oh my God.

01:35:09.000 Yeah.

01:35:10.000 They don't know about the shitty songs I've written. 0.97

01:35:12.000 Exactly. 1.00

01:35:13.000 They don't know that 99% of the songs that I write suck.

01:35:17.000 Oh, that's awesome.

01:35:18.000 And then the one, you know.

01:35:20.000 I think that's the case with everything, though.

01:35:22.000 You know, I talk to all my friends that are comics, all say the same thing. 0.98

01:35:27.000 Like, out of the jokes that they write, like 10 of them suck. 0.96

01:35:30.000 And then one pops through.

01:35:33.000 But the thing is, you just got to keep cranking.

01:35:36.000 Keep trying to find whatever it is.

01:35:39.000 That was the hard part for me, to keep going and keep trying.

01:35:42.000 How would you do it?

01:35:44.000 Like, what is your creative process?

01:35:48.000 My creative process, well, now a big part of it is not living in LA.

01:35:54.000 I have to be out in the middle of nowhere.

01:35:59.000 And I like to be alone in the room.

01:36:01.000 Even if I'm writing to somebody else's beat or something like that, I just like to sit with myself and do it.

01:36:09.000 And I just try to focus on how it makes me feel.

01:36:12.000 You know, I spent some time trying to write what I thought other people wanted to hear. 0.95

01:36:19.000 And I feel like those songs always sucked.

01:36:22.000 And so, just like letting it flow, almost like I'm not writing it, like I'm channeling it or something, that's better.

01:36:32.000 The songs that like take less effort tend to be the better songs.

01:36:37.000 And the songs that I slave over to try to get them perfect and overthink, they end up doing nothing.

01:36:43.000 John Mellencamp told me he wrote, I need a lover that won't drive me crazy in the shower.

01:36:47.000 Yeah.

01:36:48.000 Like that.

01:36:48.000 Done.

01:36:49.000 He was just saying it.

01:36:50.000 I need a lover that won't drive me crazy.

01:36:53.000 No, it makes total sense.

01:36:54.000 I write stuff in the shower.

01:36:55.000 I write stuff when I'm cooking dinner.

01:36:59.000 It's not like go into a studio from this hour to this hour and write a song.

01:37:03.000 It never works for me to do that.

01:37:06.000 So it'll just be random.

01:37:08.000 This new album I'm putting out, there's a song called Motivation.

01:37:11.000 And I remember it came to me when I was standing outside the vet's office when my dog was getting surgery on her ACL or whatever they call it in dog world.

01:37:22.000 I was just like pacing outside during her surgery, and this song started coming to me.

01:37:26.000 Did she have to do that thing where they cut the bone? 0.96

01:37:29.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:37:30.000 I had a dog. 1.00

01:37:31.000 She had to have both her back legs done that way. 1.00

01:37:34.000 She blew out both of them.

01:37:35.000 The recovery was brutal.

01:37:35.000 It was brutal.

01:37:37.000 It's horrible.

01:37:38.000 She was also a puppy, so she had like puppy energy.

01:37:42.000 And it just, we had to sedate her, and it was awful.

01:37:48.000 Yeah.

01:37:49.000 And so, do you take specific time to just like sit and try to write, or do you just like let, Ideas come to you?

01:37:59.000 I usually just let ideas come to me.

01:38:01.000 I like to take a lot of voice notes in my phone or I'll write down lyric ideas that come to me.

01:38:08.000 And then I need to be better about making time for it because when I do make time to go in and be creative, it usually does.

01:38:19.000 There's a balance.

01:38:20.000 It's like I can't force it, but I also can't be lazy and just avoid it completely.

01:38:25.000 Right.

01:38:25.000 You know?

01:38:26.000 So I try to balance that.

01:38:28.000 Have you ever read The War of Art?

01:38:33.000 I started it.

01:38:34.000 I started it.

01:38:35.000 I have copies out there.

01:38:36.000 I'll give you a copy if you don't have one.

01:38:38.000 I think I started the book on tape version.

01:38:41.000 I have copies of the book.

01:38:41.000 It's a very small book, it's very easy, but it's all about that.

01:38:46.000 And Pressfield was, you know, kind of like an underachiever until he was like 40.

01:38:52.000 And then somewhere along the line, he realized that what he really has to do is be a professional.

01:38:58.000 And so he developed this methodology of like.

01:39:03.000 Channeling the muse.

01:39:05.000 And instead of thinking of the muse as being, you know, instead of thinking of creativity as being this sort of abstract thing, he thought of it as a thing that you summon.

01:39:15.000 Like, legitimately show up every day at the same time in front of your computer or your notebook or whatever, however you do it, and literally say, I am here to summon the muse.

01:39:28.000 Like, I'm here respectfully to call upon you for your gifts.

01:39:33.000 And if you just show up every day and treat it like that, it will work.

01:39:40.000 Which is a really crazy thought.

01:39:41.000 It makes sense.

01:39:43.000 Yeah.

01:39:44.000 Do you do it?

01:39:45.000 Yeah.

01:39:45.000 I do it.

01:39:46.000 It doesn't work.

01:39:46.000 I don't do it every day.

01:39:47.000 But when I do it, yeah, I just sit there and I don't say I'm summoning the muse.

01:39:54.000 Like I think he does.

01:39:55.000 Yeah.

01:39:56.000 What I do is I go, here we go.

01:40:00.000 I just say, here we go.

01:40:01.000 I say, here we go.

01:40:02.000 And then I start typing.

01:40:04.000 And a lot of times it's like almost like working out.

01:40:08.000 Like in the beginning, you're like, you know, you got to warm up.

01:40:13.000 You got to get things going.

01:40:14.000 You know, you get on the bike a little bit, crack a sweat, start stretching.

01:40:18.000 Yeah.

01:40:19.000 You know, I'm typing in the beginning. 1.00

01:40:20.000 It's just like, whoa, I fucking suck. 1.00

01:40:23.000 These thoughts are useless. 1.00

01:40:24.000 This is not, oh.

01:40:26.000 Yeah.

01:40:27.000 And I got something.

01:40:28.000 And I figured out a way to do it that is more organic for me because I used to just try to write things that were funny.

01:40:28.000 Yeah.

01:40:36.000 And now what I do is just write.

01:40:38.000 I write on a subject, like a thing. 0.87

01:40:40.000 And then I'll let it, like, if I'm writing about whatever fucking global change, global warming, fucking earthquakes, whatever I'm writing about, I'll let it shift to what I don't try to stay on subjects. 0.61

01:40:52.000 Yeah, you let it just. 0.95

01:40:53.000 Yeah, it might completely change to something totally different, a completely different subject.

01:40:58.000 And I just let it.

01:40:59.000 And then I just try to get out of my own way and write as much as possible.

01:41:05.000 And then I go over it and try to extract things from that.

01:41:09.000 And I take those and I copy and paste them into something else.

01:41:12.000 And then I'll expand on that idea.

01:41:14.000 Like I'll start fresh with this idea.

01:41:17.000 And it's just a numbers game, it's just a numbers and time game.

01:41:21.000 The amount of numbers, the amount of time that you spend thinking about stuff.

01:41:25.000 You get these little gifts.

01:41:26.000 Yeah.

01:41:26.000 And that's where the concept of the muse comes from.

01:41:28.000 It's because it's almost like it's like some sort of a divine entity.

01:41:32.000 It feels like that.

01:41:33.000 It does feel like that.

01:41:35.000 Everybody says that, whether it's authors or musicians or comedians or anybody creative, they say it feels like it's not even my idea.

01:41:35.000 Yeah.

01:41:43.000 Like it just came to me out of nowhere.

01:41:46.000 Right.

01:41:46.000 Which is the weirdest thing about the creative process.

01:41:48.000 It's not like a structure you're putting together, like a house.

01:41:53.000 You know, like I know how to do this.

01:41:55.000 I lay down the foundation, I put up the girders, I do the, uh uh.

01:41:59.000 It's like this thing, like this spiritual, weird entity that you're in contact with.

01:42:07.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:42:09.000 And it's not you, because you're like empty when the ideas come.

01:42:13.000 They just like make their way into your head. 0.99

01:42:15.000 You're like, whoa, where the fuck did that come from? 0.99

01:42:17.000 But then you're responding to your emotional, like how it makes you feel. 0.99

01:42:21.000 Yeah.

01:42:21.000 Like reading what you're channeling or listening to it.

01:42:26.000 And for me, like I focus mostly on that.

01:42:28.000 Like, how is it making me feel?

01:42:30.000 Causing some type of like emotional response, you know, yeah, and then those are the magic moments.

01:42:30.000 Is it.

01:42:37.000 Well, that's why it would have to be so weird to do it in a studio with a bunch of people you don't know with under pressure, yeah.

01:42:46.000 For me, it doesn't work.

01:42:47.000 I don't know how some people are like thrive in that environment, I don't know how, yeah.

01:42:52.000 I get it.

01:42:53.000 A lot of rappers, I just love doing that, but I think they feed off of each other, you know, and like a lot of what rappers they tell me that like.

01:43:02.000 Like they're doing it for their boys, so like as they're like hitting like new lines and coming up with new rhymes and new raps, it's like they're fucking around with their friends and like having a good time, like impressing them with like strong lines and great bars.

01:43:19.000 I mean, I've definitely had some moments like that, especially like you can find people you have really good chemistry with, then it can work, right?

01:43:28.000 But generally speaking, just going into a room with strangers, it doesn't work for me, but yeah.

01:43:36.000 There are some people that I feel super connected to creatively, and I can do that with them.

01:43:42.000 Well, I'd imagine everybody's got their own different little process, but it's just a matter of like doing something, like making the time for it.

01:43:50.000 And I would imagine also it's like as you get really busy and successful and there's a lot of obligations, it's harder and harder to find that still time.

01:44:02.000 Well, yeah.

01:44:03.000 And there's like cycles.

01:44:04.000 Like right now, I'm not writing at all because I'm just in, you know, album promotion mode.

01:44:10.000 And so it's all about like content and all this other stuff.

01:44:14.000 So I haven't written a song in a long time.

01:44:17.000 So, and it's also kind of like a muscle, like songwriting for me.

01:44:23.000 Once I get into a songwriting zone, it's like coming like way easier all the time.

01:44:29.000 But I have to like warm up to get into it and get back in that headspace and, you know, warm up that muscle again.

01:44:35.000 That makes sense.

01:44:36.000 Like marathon running.

01:44:39.000 Yeah, something.

01:44:39.000 Yeah.

01:44:41.000 Yeah.

01:44:41.000 I think everything's like that.

01:44:42.000 Yeah.

01:44:43.000 You get into like grooves.

01:44:45.000 Mm-hmm.

01:44:47.000 Yeah.

01:44:48.000 So, when you're in the middle of promotion, like what is the difference?

01:44:53.000 And, like, do you have ideas that still come to you and you just sort of jot them down and go one day I'll go back to that?

01:45:00.000 Yeah.

01:45:02.000 Yeah.

01:45:03.000 Yeah, I just store them.

01:45:05.000 Does this feel like when you're in promotion time, does it feel weird?

01:45:11.000 Like, you got to go out and sell it and you got to talk about it?

01:45:16.000 I don't know.

01:45:17.000 I enjoy all the different aspects of it, you know?

01:45:21.000 I love the, it's all creative for the most part.

01:45:24.000 Like, even just like making content and filming stuff.

01:45:29.000 It's a, it's an art form too.

01:45:31.000 So I feel like I'm still like getting my creativity out.

01:45:34.000 It's just not in the songwriting.

01:45:37.000 And so is it like one of those things where in the back of your mind, you're like, eventually this will come to an end and I'm going to get back to it.

01:45:45.000 And then it starts to like itch at you.

01:45:48.000 Yeah.

01:45:49.000 I get the itch.

01:45:49.000 Yeah.

01:45:50.000 Yeah.

01:45:51.000 It's time to get back.

01:45:52.000 Yeah, I'm already feeling it.

01:45:54.000 I'm ready to write again.

01:45:54.000 Are you?

01:45:55.000 Yeah.

01:45:56.000 Well, I would imagine that being in a place like Napa, where you're like around, like, peaceful, you know, beautiful background and, you know, nature, and it's probably like way easier to get in touch with your mind than to be trapped in Manhattan.

01:46:18.000 For sure. 1.00

01:46:19.000 Beep, beep, fuck you. 1.00

01:46:20.000 You know, that. 1.00

01:46:21.000 Yeah.

01:46:22.000 That's exactly why I've stayed away from cities.

01:46:26.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:46:28.000 I guess everybody has to find their own thing because I have friends who thrive off that shit. 1.00

01:46:31.000 I have friends who live in New York City. 1.00

01:46:33.000 They can't live anywhere else.

01:46:35.000 They love it.

01:46:36.000 Yeah.

01:46:37.000 Maybe it's because I grew up in a rural environment.

01:46:39.000 Maybe it's because you're not broken.

01:46:40.000 I think my friends are all broken. 0.99

01:46:42.000 So the fuck is wrong with me? 0.99

01:46:44.000 I think it's a comfort thing because I grew up in the woods. 0.99

01:46:47.000 So it feels like home to be out in the middle of nowhere.

01:46:50.000 But if I grew up in the city, that might feel more comfortable for me and I might be able to hear myself think better there.

01:46:59.000 But.

01:47:00.000 You know, everybody's different.

01:47:02.000 I think everybody who goes to the woods realizes they need it.

01:47:10.000 I think it's a vitamin.

01:47:11.000 I really do.

01:47:12.000 I think it's just like how sunlight gives you vitamin D.

01:47:15.000 I think there's something about being in wilderness where you're in tune with all those life forms because it's not as simple as, oh, there's a bird, there's a squirrel. 0.98

01:47:26.000 No, the fucking ground's alive. 0.85

01:47:28.000 The trees are alive. 0.99

01:47:29.000 There's energy that all these things have that is.

01:47:32.000 Being distributed somehow or another in this strange array of information and of just life that's all around you that you feel.

01:47:47.000 You actually feel when you're out there.

01:47:49.000 Yeah.

01:47:50.000 It's like forest bathing.

01:47:51.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:47:52.000 That Japanese practice.

01:47:53.000 Yeah, for sure. 0.99

01:47:54.000 And it's also, there's no fucking cell phone service. 0.96

01:47:57.000 So I think there's something to that too because the earth feels cleaner, if that makes any sense. 0.97

01:48:03.000 Like, when I'm in a place that has no cell phone servers, I swear there's a subtle difference in the way the world feels.

01:48:03.000 Yeah.

01:48:10.000 It's like a vortex, yeah.

01:48:12.000 Yeah, because I think, like, in this room, we have Wi Fi, we both have phones.

01:48:16.000 Like, I think there's signals that are just out there that we can't, you know, you can't tune it in and go, oh, that's a video my friend's sending me.

01:48:25.000 You don't do that. 0.98

01:48:26.000 But there's something about whatever the fuck that stuff is that I think your body recognizes as a, like, they say it fucks with bees, like cell phone signals in particular. 1.00

01:48:37.000 Really fucks with bees and like okay, well, fucks with bees. 1.00

01:48:41.000 I bet it fucks with us too. 0.99

01:48:43.000 Oh, I'm sure, yeah, yeah, because it feels like when if you're in a place with no cell phone service, the world feels different, and it's not just because you can't check your phone, it's the world, the actual air around you feels different. 0.86

01:48:59.000 Yeah, I definitely feel that too.

01:49:02.000 Yeah, yeah, I think that's how people are supposed to live. 0.96

01:49:05.000 I think we're doing some weird shit to ourselves, you know, for sure. 0.96

01:49:10.000 But the weird shit is cool. 0.98

01:49:11.000 In a lot of ways, you know, because it's how we meet each other, how we talk to each other, you know, how we find out about new things. 0.99

01:49:17.000 It's a good balance of it all, you know?

01:49:19.000 Exactly.

01:49:20.000 Yeah.

01:49:22.000 Do you have goals?

01:49:24.000 Yeah.

01:49:26.000 What are your goals?

01:49:27.000 Like, because some people don't.

01:49:28.000 Some people just enjoy doing, they don't think about, like, goals.

01:49:34.000 Yeah, I mean, I have, like, things I want to do before I die.

01:49:38.000 What do you want to do?

01:49:41.000 Well, I want to be better about putting out more music because.

01:49:44.000 Because I do put so much pressure on myself, it's taken me like five years between each album to make one and put it out.

01:49:52.000 I second guess myself all the time, and I think like I put so much pressure on it.

01:49:58.000 Like, this has to be the sound that the mark I leave on the world, and this is what I want to be known for. 0.99

01:50:04.000 I'm like, fuck all that. 0.99

01:50:06.000 Just capture a moment in time. 1.00

01:50:08.000 Like, what am I feeling right now?

01:50:10.000 What vibe am I into?

01:50:12.000 And capture that zeitgeist.

01:50:14.000 Musically, and then move on to the next one.

01:50:16.000 Like, it doesn't all have to be cohesive.

01:50:19.000 I used to just be like, put so much pressure on it being cohesive and having like a certain sound or whatever.

01:50:27.000 But now I'm just like, okay, right, like right now, this album, I'm calling the genre bubble grunge because it's like inspired by the 90s pop and grunge kind of like combined together.

01:50:43.000 But then the next album, I might totally flip it and do something totally different.

01:50:49.000 And that's okay.

01:50:51.000 Like, it doesn't all have to be.

01:50:54.000 Like, it can be different.

01:50:56.000 I can change it up.

01:50:57.000 And so, my goal in regards to that is to put out an album every year instead of every five years.

01:51:07.000 That's a big shift.

01:51:08.000 It's a big shift.

01:51:10.000 But I don't want to look back and just wish I would have released more because I have so much music sitting on hard drives and on a Dropbox folder that's never come out because I would like to make a bunch of music and then second guess it and.

01:51:24.000 Start over and start over again.

01:51:26.000 It's not good enough.

01:51:27.000 It's not good enough.

01:51:28.000 I'm like, I should have just put everything out.

01:51:30.000 I should have just been okay with, like, you know, putting out a bad album or a bad song.

01:51:38.000 It's okay.

01:51:40.000 But do you think that that's making it and putting it out?

01:51:42.000 Perhaps a part of the creative process is boiling it down to something that you're going to do.

01:51:46.000 I think so, but I think I take that way too far.

01:51:50.000 Do you think that that is in part because of the pressure that you experience where your first thing that hits is number one?

01:51:59.000 Which is a crazy experience.

01:52:00.000 Yeah.

01:52:01.000 And you were really young.

01:52:03.000 Yeah.

01:52:03.000 You know, all of a sudden, boom.

01:52:05.000 Yeah.

01:52:06.000 Maybe that was part of it.

01:52:08.000 Just made me like extra hard on myself.

01:52:12.000 But I want to have more fun and not take it so seriously.

01:52:17.000 So, how do you plan on doing that?

01:52:19.000 How do you plan on having more fun and not taking it so seriously?

01:52:23.000 I'm already doing it.

01:52:24.000 Yeah?

01:52:25.000 Yeah.

01:52:26.000 I think I just turned 40, and I think that also has something to do with it.

01:52:30.000 Because I'm just like, Seeing the end.

01:52:36.000 Like, what am I doing here?

01:52:37.000 Just like torturing myself with all this pressure and not just like having fun and being creative and throwing it out there, you know?

01:52:47.000 So I'm already doing that.

01:52:50.000 I'm already having more fun.

01:52:52.000 But that is one of the beautiful things that comes with age.

01:52:52.000 That's great.

01:52:55.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:52:56.000 Giving less fucks. 0.97

01:52:57.000 Giving less fucks and just accumulating experiences to the point where you recognize like the flaws in your past thinking and. 0.96

01:53:05.000 Why I did this, and I'm not happy I did that, and you gather enough of those experiences where you get a better map of the territory. 0.71

01:53:11.000 Like, I think I get it now.

01:53:14.000 Yeah.

01:53:15.000 And then you're really established now, too.

01:53:17.000 So it's like you don't have to be as worried about whether or not, you know.

01:53:25.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:53:29.000 It's a beautiful thing that comes with age the not giving a fuck, or not, you know, like one of the funniest things is to see an old person doesn't give a fuck. 0.99

01:53:38.000 It's fun. 0.99

01:53:38.000 Oh, yeah. 0.99

01:53:39.000 Old people who don't give a fuck and just say anything that comes to their mind. 1.00

01:53:44.000 It's hilarious. 1.00

01:53:46.000 They're fun.

01:53:48.000 Well, thank you for being here.

01:53:50.000 It's a lot of fun.

01:53:51.000 I really enjoyed it.

01:53:52.000 I enjoyed talking to you, and I really enjoy your music.

01:53:54.000 Oh, thank you.

01:53:56.000 Can I talk a little bit about the album that I'm putting out?

01:53:58.000 Absolutely.

01:53:59.000 Okay.

01:54:00.000 It's called Wasted Potential.

01:54:02.000 It's about me wasting my potential.

01:54:06.000 But it's an album where I'm telling the story of my, like, Upbringing in small town Wisconsin, discovering my sexuality, and just like it's like a coming of age story.

01:54:21.000 And it's a part of my story I don't think a lot of people know.

01:54:25.000 They mostly know me from working with Eminem and all the things I did after that.

01:54:29.000 But I just felt like it was time.

01:54:32.000 I think because I turned 40 recently, I was like thinking about my childhood a lot and like realizing I didn't appreciate it enough.

01:54:38.000 I had a great childhood.

01:54:40.000 And so I just wanted to tell that part of my story.

01:54:45.000 Kind of for the first time ever.

01:54:47.000 So I'm excited to get that out.

01:54:49.000 And it was important for me to get it off my chest and out so that I could finally I was depressed about turning 40.

01:54:58.000 Really?

01:55:00.000 So depressed about it.

01:55:00.000 Yeah.

01:55:02.000 But I think it's because I didn't feel like I was present during my childhood.

01:55:08.000 And I mean, I was working a lot.

01:55:11.000 And so it was important for me to get it off my chest and be at a point now where I feel like I can accept that I'm 40 and actually enjoy it.

01:55:22.000 And so that was the whole gist of the album.

01:55:27.000 Do you really think that you have wasted potential?

01:55:30.000 Oh, yeah.

01:55:30.000 Really?

01:55:32.000 How so?

01:55:34.000 Well, when I made music for my mom growing up, it was a completely different lifestyle to now making music in, you know, LA and the big world of music.

01:55:47.000 I didn't realize how much work it would be.

01:55:49.000 I didn't realize the grind.

01:55:52.000 And I think when I first got into it, I was kind of lazy about it because I was like, oh, honestly, I probably should have been a Gen Z. Because I was just like, fuck this. 0.99

01:56:04.000 I don't want to do this, you know? 0.99

01:56:06.000 And so a lot of decisions I made in my career, I feel like, you know, it was all my fault, basically.

01:56:16.000 All the failures that I've had, I realized were my fault for being, you know, lazy or not putting in the effort and the grind.

01:56:28.000 And yeah, so.

01:56:32.000 I wasted a lot of potential.

01:56:33.000 I had so many huge opportunities when I was younger in the music industry.

01:56:38.000 And then I kind of just was like, this is too much work.

01:56:43.000 But is that a part of like a work life balance?

01:56:49.000 Yeah.

01:56:50.000 I mean, that's what Gen Z would say, right?

01:56:55.000 They're all about the work life balance.

01:56:57.000 But in my generation, the millennials, it was all about like work, You know?

01:57:05.000 Hmm.

01:57:08.000 And I wasn't doing that as much.

01:57:11.000 So, yeah, I didn't feel like turning 40, I was like, I'm not in the place where I thought I'd be.

01:57:18.000 I didn't do all the things I wanted to do by this age.

01:57:22.000 And I was feeling kind of like a failure.

01:57:25.000 And so.

01:57:27.000 Do you think that that self critical mindset, though, is just one of those things that's just like, it's actually inherent to anybody that's creative and ambitious?

01:57:38.000 Like, you're always going to be.

01:57:39.000 Self critical, and that's probably one of the reasons why your music is so good.

01:57:44.000 Like, this idea, it's not good enough, it's not good enough, and obsessing over things.

01:57:48.000 We only release something every five years, but then look at the quality of the songs that you do release that you do love.

01:57:55.000 It's like there's a balance in there, like a little bit of self critical, a little bit of like, I'm not doing enough.

01:58:05.000 Let it in there, but don't believe it, you know?

01:58:08.000 Yeah, life is life, it's not all.

01:58:12.000 You know, it's not all like leave a legacy because in the end, really, it doesn't matter.

01:58:17.000 I know, you know, it's true.

01:58:19.000 Enjoy that's why I'm just trying to have more fun.

01:58:22.000 No, it's great, yeah.

01:58:23.000 Both things, both things.

01:58:26.000 Listen, your music's awesome, thank you.

01:58:29.000 And it was awesome seeing you with Eminem, it was great.

01:58:31.000 Oh, yeah, you came to the show, yeah.

01:58:33.000 And uh, also, that's how Marshall was named, he was named after, yeah.

01:58:40.000 So, so cute.

01:58:41.000 Thank you, and uh, best of luck with your album with everything else in the future.

01:58:46.000 This is really cool.

01:58:47.000 Me too.

01:58:47.000 I enjoyed it.

01:58:49.000 Alright, thank you.

01:58:50.000 Alright, bye everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - May 22, 2026

Joe Rogan Experience #2504 - Skylar Grey

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Summary

Transcript