The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #334 - Dr. Amit Goswami

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00:02:04.000 I don't think it has anything to do with just being artistic.

00:02:08.000 He relates it to writing and art and creating things, but I think it probably goes to a lot of different things that you do in life, things that you put your focus towards, things that you enjoy.

00:02:18.000 Anyway, audible.com forward slash Joe.

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00:02:56.000 These steel clubs look like weapons, Joe.

00:02:58.000 You're starting to add weapons to on it.

00:02:59.000 They're not weapons, son.

00:03:01.000 They would help you wield a weapon, but what they are is they're ancient Indian exercises. 0.82

00:03:09.000 These are from...

00:03:11.000 Boy, they used to do them with hardwoods like hundreds and hundreds of years ago, probably thousands of years ago.

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00:03:37.000 I only used 25 pounders.

00:03:39.000 They're that hard to use.

00:03:41.000 With a 25-pound club belt, I get a serious workout in.

00:03:44.000 It's real weird.

00:03:45.000 We look at weights, and we look at lifting weight, and people are all impressed if they can lift 300 pounds, and bench 250. It doesn't really matter if you can't use it.

00:03:57.000 The stuff that I'm interested in is all different exercises that have been shown to actually increase athletic performance.

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00:04:56.000 This Wednesday night, right?

00:04:59.000 Thursday.

00:05:00.000 Thursday.

00:05:00.000 Next, don't go Wednesday.

00:05:02.000 If you do go Wednesday, bring a sleeping bag.

00:05:04.000 San Diego.

00:05:06.000 This Thursday night, it'll be Brian, Tony Hinchcliffe, who's a hilarious, up-and-coming young comedian, Jason Teeb, who we love to death, a very, very funny guy, Billy Bonnell, our buddy Yoshi.

00:05:18.000 You can't go wrong with this show.

00:05:20.000 It's the American Comedy Company.

00:05:21.000 It's a cool-ass club.

00:05:23.000 If you've never been there before, it's in San Diego on 6th Street.

00:05:26.000 Is that where it's at?

00:05:27.000 In that area?

00:05:28.000 Something like that.

00:05:29.000 You can find it on Google, wherever.

00:05:31.000 But it's at the American Comedy Company.

00:05:33.000 It's an awesome comedy club.

00:05:34.000 San Diego has one of that.

00:05:36.000 That club is like one of the best designed clubs in the country.

00:05:38.000 Like real low ceilings, tight seating.

00:05:41.000 I remember when we went there, we were like, whoa, this place is sick.

00:05:44.000 This is a great spot.

00:05:45.000 Yeah, it's going to be fun.

00:05:46.000 Yeah, next Thursday.

00:05:47.000 And this Friday, which is tonight.

00:05:49.000 Oh, tonight.

00:05:49.000 Yeah, tonight.

00:05:50.000 We're at the Ice House.

00:05:50.000 10 p.m.

00:05:51.000 show.

00:05:52.000 It's a great show.

00:05:53.000 Tom Segura, Christina Pazitsky.

00:05:54.000 No, no, no, no, no.

00:05:55.000 They didn't make it?

00:05:56.000 No, they can't make it now. 1.00

00:05:56.000 God damn it. 1.00

00:05:57.000 But we had a huge show anyways. 0.99

00:05:59.000 Who's on?

00:06:00.000 We have you.

00:06:01.000 We have Matty Kirsch is returning to the comedy stage.

00:06:05.000 He's been doing comedy recently.

00:06:07.000 Matty K used to open up for Rogan back in the day, and he was one of my favorite comics.

00:06:12.000 He was hilarious.

00:06:13.000 Yeah.

00:06:14.000 Hilarious.

00:06:15.000 Hilarious.

00:06:15.000 So he's going to join us.

00:06:16.000 We also have Sam Tripoli, Johnny Pemberton, and Tony Hinchcliffe, and Josh Fadham, and Benji.

00:06:23.000 That's a good show.

00:06:24.000 All right, 10 o'clock, you freaks.

00:06:26.000 We'll see you there.

00:06:27.000 All right, we have on the podcast Dr. Amit Goswami.

00:06:32.000 Am I pronouncing your name correctly, sir?

00:06:34.000 Almost. 0.99

00:06:34.000 We're going to get to the bottom of shit, folks. 0.99

00:06:36.000 We're going to learn some things. 0.99

00:06:37.000 He's going to enlighten us.

00:06:39.000 Are you ready?

00:06:41.000 Set...

00:06:45.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

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00:06:54.000 Alright, we are here with Dr. Goswami.

00:06:58.000 Thank you very much for doing this.

00:06:59.000 I really appreciate it.

00:07:00.000 I've seen a lot of your videos online. 0.79

00:07:03.000 I read a lot of your work and it is some very, very fascinating and for a person as dumb as I am, confusing stuff.

00:07:13.000 The idea of quantum mechanics and just when someone uses the word quantum, do you find that a lot of folks that just eyes glaze over Well, not anymore, because, you know, one of the most complex concepts of quantum physics is quantum leap.

00:07:32.000 It's a discontinuous transition, and that gives an idea of how foreign it is to a mind which thinks in the Newtonian fashion.

00:07:41.000 You know, motion is continuous, and quantum leap is discontinuous.

00:07:45.000 But it's used everywhere today.

00:07:47.000 Everybody knows, you know, if anything unusual happens, people say, took a quantum leap.

00:07:55.000 What do they mean by that?

00:07:56.000 I think they just mean like a big jump.

00:07:58.000 I think they just mean a big jump.

00:08:00.000 If they knew that it's a discontinuous jump, they probably would hesitate.

00:08:04.000 What does that exactly mean by a discontinuous jump?

00:08:06.000 Well, I have to go back a little.

00:08:09.000 So think of electrons going around the atomic nucleus in an atom.

00:08:14.000 When electrons jump from one of these orbits to another orbit, it does not go through the intervening space.

00:08:22.000 However much surprising to your rational mind that is, just suspend your disbelief.

00:08:29.000 Imagine that the electron is here, and then the electron is there in the other orbit.

00:08:35.000 Nothing in between space and time.

00:08:38.000 Nothing in between.

00:08:39.000 So they just some sort of another, they teleport themselves, or are teleported.

00:08:44.000 Teleported, that's it.

00:08:45.000 I mean, you know, science fiction language captures it a little bit.

00:08:49.000 But why do they go in between?

00:08:51.000 We have to say that they go to the domain of possibility.

00:08:55.000 That's what quantum physics brings, that reality which it seems to be just this one space-time reality that we call nature.

00:09:03.000 That is not true.

00:09:05.000 There is another reality which must be called supernature, transcendent reality, just like the spiritual traditions are saying, just like the psychologists are saying in the turn of the century.

00:09:16.000 In the 19th century, Freud discovered the concept of unconscious.

00:09:21.000 Unconscious?

00:09:21.000 Conscious.

00:09:22.000 Two levels of reality.

00:09:23.000 The spiritual traditions are transcendent, imminent.

00:09:26.000 Again, two levels of reality.

00:09:28.000 Quantum physics in the 20th century, in the year 1925-26, discovered the same thing.

00:09:36.000 Three times the charm.

00:09:37.000 This time we better observe the idea and learn to live with it.

00:09:41.000 There are two levels of our reality.

00:09:44.000 Quantum physics says one level is level of possibility, where everything is possibility.

00:09:49.000 Nothing concrete, no thing, no thingness.

00:09:53.000 And then this level of reality where we, of course, live, where we find things manifest, where things look like they're particles, objects, concrete, solid, liquid, gases, all these are concrete objects.

00:10:06.000 We have become used to them as concrete objects.

00:10:09.000 But they begin As possibilities in a transcendent domain.

00:10:13.000 So, to break it down for the layperson, essentially the lowest form or the smallest form of the universe that we can measure when we get to subatomic particles, when we can look at subatomic particles,

00:10:28.000 they defy the laws of physics, They exist in the same space at the same time in two different places.

00:10:34.000 They can be both moving and still, and they can teleport themselves.

00:10:40.000 You made it a little more complex than it actually is.

00:10:43.000 It's less complex than that?

00:10:45.000 It's less complex than that.

00:10:46.000 Wow.

00:10:46.000 Because we have to realize these objects can be shown to be at two places at the same time, but only in possibility.

00:11:00.000 No, but that should simplify.

00:11:01.000 You have to think about it.

00:11:02.000 I can't.

00:11:03.000 I'm trying.

00:11:04.000 I just broke my brain.

00:11:05.000 Of course, because the word possibility is not familiar to you.

00:11:09.000 This is why we did a couple of hours to dance around these ideas, because they're a little bit strange.

00:11:16.000 What is possibility?

00:11:18.000 But we know what possibility is.

00:11:20.000 Possibilities are things that glimpse at us, but nothing that we can put our finger to it, that it is this.

00:11:29.000 It may become fact, but right now it's just an idea.

00:11:33.000 Right now it's just an idea.

00:11:37.000 Our reality begins with these possibilities.

00:11:43.000 The possibility of an electron being anywhere in the room.

00:11:47.000 Our knowledge is limited.

00:11:48.000 We only know that it's possible to find the electron here, there, at the ceiling, maybe at right here where I am, but we don't know where it actually will be if I try to see it, try to measure it, try to observe it.

00:12:00.000 And that's the second domain.

00:12:03.000 Second domain is domain of manifestation.

00:12:05.000 When an observer tries to measure where the electron is, The observer will find it at a definite place as a particle.

00:12:14.000 That's the manifest reality.

00:12:16.000 So something that is a wave of possibility, having the capacity of being everywhere, with our measurement, becomes a concrete object that we can say, well, it's a thing, there it is.

00:12:29.000 At a definite place.

00:12:31.000 So only by measuring it, it becomes a concrete object?

00:12:34.000 Only by observing it, measuring it, only by...

00:12:37.000 That's a very hard thing to understand.

00:12:39.000 It is a very hard thing to understand.

00:12:41.000 But if you're measuring it, and that's when it becomes a concrete object, Isn't it just assuming it wasn't a concrete object before you measured it and that it's always a concrete object?

00:12:54.000 That's the thing.

00:12:55.000 But you hadn't measured it before?

00:12:56.000 That's the thing.

00:12:57.000 Today we have a new era of physics in which we can propose something which we cannot actually see.

00:13:07.000 But the consequence...

00:13:08.000 No, listen to this joke.

00:13:09.000 I am, please.

00:13:09.000 But the consequences of it can be seen.

00:13:12.000 So our theories are so good that what we...

00:13:17.000 Visualizes theory, the consequences of it is predicted so very well that we got to believe this theory.

00:13:25.000 There's no choice because the consequences are predicted like one part in hundred million to that kind of accuracy.

00:13:32.000 So this is the kind of theory that just boggles your mind.

00:13:36.000 We've never had the capacity of predicting something this accurately.

00:13:41.000 So when the picture says that, well, they start as possibility and then they become actuality, we have no option but to accept it.

00:13:48.000 Although, I agree with you, it sounds strange.

00:13:52.000 I mean, any time you're talking about supernature, most people would say, oh, you are in Uwuland.

00:13:57.000 But you are not in Uwuland.

00:13:58.000 You are in quantum reality.

00:14:00.000 Well, quantum reality is land.

00:14:03.000 It's just also real.

00:14:05.000 It is also real.

00:14:06.000 The thing that people need to – I mean I've had a really hard time digesting any of this stuff.

00:14:12.000 But the thing that people need to look at first, I think, is the idea of superposition.

00:14:18.000 The idea that – what you were saying, the idea that they have measured things both moving and still at the same time and they have shown – That things can leap from one place to another.

00:14:28.000 So our real reality, as far as science, is accepted pretty much universally, right?

00:14:34.000 There's no debate in the scientific community about the movement of subatomic particles, right?

00:14:41.000 Movement of subatomic particles involving discontinuity.

00:14:44.000 There is no debate.

00:14:45.000 So that becomes tables.

00:14:49.000 That becomes Dr. Goswami.

00:14:51.000 That becomes the laptop.

00:14:53.000 That is a real trippy thing to try to wrap your head around.

00:14:59.000 Real trippy thing.

00:15:00.000 That when you go, the smaller you go, the more it becomes magic.

00:15:04.000 It becomes something that doesn't exist in our rational world.

00:15:10.000 It's even more intriguing than that.

00:15:13.000 Let me claim the full claim of quantum physics.

00:15:16.000 It's not only saying that the smaller you go, but the plot thickens when you realize that the reality at the macro scale is made of the small things.

00:15:26.000 So, of course, the effect is visible, much more easily measured for the small things.

00:15:33.000 But when the small things make big things, as you said, microphones and you and me, our body, that is, They're all quantum objects.

00:15:41.000 So we also, when nobody's observing us, including ourselves, like when we sleep, Deep sleep.

00:15:51.000 Nobody is observing me.

00:15:53.000 Where am I? I am only a possibility.

00:15:57.000 The only reason I can find myself in the same bed every night when I wake up, the only reason for that is that because I'm a macro object, my wave of possibility, although it expands a little,

00:16:12.000 just as all waves must expand, you have seen water wave expanding, You know, if you throw a pebble in a pond of water, the water waves will expand, right?

00:16:23.000 Same thing happens with waves of possibility.

00:16:25.000 We do tend to expand as soon as you go to sleep as a wave of possibility, but the waves are so sluggish for macro objects.

00:16:33.000 For me, to move a substantial distance that somebody can discern it, it will take the edge of the universe.

00:16:41.000 So we don't discern it.

00:16:43.000 It moves like 10 to the minus 16 centimeter.

00:16:45.000 But today, with laser beams, we can actually measure such small distances that these macro objects, even macro objects, move While Newtonian physics would say, no, no, they're at rest.

00:16:59.000 Whereas our common sense would say, no, no, they're not moving.

00:17:02.000 But with a laser beam, we can actually measure that between your looking and my looking, just for a second, objects actually move, which appear to be stationary to the normal eye.

00:17:13.000 So we live in a very, very, very wonderfully creative world.

00:17:20.000 Why creative?

00:17:21.000 Because this movement also suggests something fantastic, that there are new possibilities.

00:17:28.000 And if we could capture those new possibilities and make them manifest, that's the explanation of creativity.

00:17:35.000 So what you're saying is that objects like this desk are not in fact still.

00:17:41.000 But are slightly moving all the time?

00:17:42.000 They're slightly moving all the time.

00:17:44.000 And what is the number that they're moving?

00:17:46.000 How far?

00:17:47.000 Well, it's very small.

00:17:49.000 The center of mass of this table, for example, is pretty massive, probably moving about 10 to the minus 18 centimeters in a discernible time, like a minute or two.

00:18:00.000 So it just sort of moves back and forth and back.

00:18:03.000 So we really do live in like a hologram.

00:18:06.000 Well, hologram is not always a good metaphor, but it is for this case because, you know, the objects can appear in more than one place in that sense.

00:18:16.000 Hologram, the information appears everywhere on the hologram.

00:18:20.000 So, these objects carry information which is in more than one place.

00:18:25.000 Potentially, it is more than one place.

00:18:28.000 This is why we say that we have discovered a new world of potentia from which our ordinary reality is created.

00:18:35.000 So ordinary reality is not as fixed as we thought it was.

00:18:39.000 If you allow the objects to go more and more in the quantum domain, in the realm of expansion into new possibility, where it has not expanded before, not so much with tables and chairs, mind you, but with our thoughts,

00:18:54.000 with our feelings, then we can really get into creativity.

00:18:58.000 So how would you do that?

00:19:00.000 How do you go into the quantum domain with your creativity?

00:19:03.000 Well, that's when I have to talk to you about the creative process.

00:19:07.000 If you look at the creative process, creativity researchers have found that there are four stages.

00:19:15.000 The first stage everybody knows, preparation.

00:19:18.000 That just, I read up, I talk with you, I get some knowledge from picking your brain, I listen to a teacher, I listen to audios, videos, internet of course, and get some knowledge about the subject.

00:19:32.000 And then creativity researchers find a very strange thing happens.

00:19:37.000 The most creative people, they are not just doing preparation.

00:19:41.000 They also sit quietly and do nothing.

00:19:45.000 They really sit quietly and do nothing.

00:19:49.000 They call it the period of incubation, like a bird sits on an egg doing nothing.

00:19:57.000 See, imagine.

00:19:57.000 It was a tremendous surprise.

00:19:59.000 Nobody understood why do we need to sit down.

00:20:02.000 You know, creativity, after all, is action.

00:20:04.000 Why do we need to sit down quietly?

00:20:06.000 Why do we need to do nothing?

00:20:08.000 And then quantum physics came along, and we realized that in between our thinking, these objects' thoughts, they are possibilities of meaning.

00:20:17.000 They're waves.

00:20:18.000 So, like all waves, I was talking about the water wave before, if you throw a pebble in a pond, the water waves will expand as expanding crest lines.

00:20:27.000 So, same thing happens with the thoughts.

00:20:29.000 They expand in meaning, become waves of multiple meaning, possibilities of multiple meaning, multiple meaning, expanding, expanding, expanding.

00:20:39.000 The more they expand, the more meaning this packet of possibility will contain.

00:20:44.000 And so you have a better idea, better possibility, better probability of capturing a new meaning.

00:20:51.000 Because if you have a bigger possibility pool to choose from, obviously your chance of being creative is greater.

00:20:59.000 This is the idea that has explained how creativity comes to us.

00:21:05.000 Then when the actual When the answer appears, the new meaning that we are seeking, when it appears in the pool, and when I see the gestalt of all the new meanings that will give answer to my problem, then I pick it, then I choose it.

00:21:20.000 Still in the unconscious.

00:21:22.000 That's where my causal power of creativity lies, still in the unconscious.

00:21:26.000 But now it becomes conscious with the huomo.

00:21:29.000 This is the quantum leap, a discontinuous change from possibility into actuality.

00:21:34.000 So I actually captured the new thought, Joe.

00:21:37.000 I actually captured the new thought, and that's so surprising because it's new.

00:21:43.000 Creativity researchers call it AHA insight.

00:21:46.000 You have heard of AHA. So the idea is that the imagination is a quantum realm?

00:21:53.000 Imagination takes us to the realm of possibility.

00:21:55.000 If we can do it from conscious into the unconscious, conscious imagination is still A stepping stone to the domain of possibility.

00:22:05.000 But if we imagine consciously, that is like stalking the unconscious, that eventually gets onto the unconscious.

00:22:13.000 And this is where things have this capacity of propagating, expanding, wave-like, becoming bigger and bigger pools of possibility for consciousness to choose from.

00:22:23.000 And when we choose, a new possibility might arise, or a whole combination of new possibilities might arise, which will contain the answer.

00:22:33.000 That's a very interesting way to break down creativity that I've never heard before.

00:22:37.000 Absolutely.

00:22:39.000 Although it is not that old.

00:22:40.000 I first wrote a paper on it in 1988. But you know how communication is today.

00:22:46.000 It's very complex because there is too much of it.

00:22:49.000 But it is a fantastic theory that explains all the aspects of creativity theory, creativity experiments, creativity data.

00:22:58.000 The other theories are just inadequate to explain the creative process.

00:23:05.000 As I said, it's very mysterious.

00:23:07.000 I call it the do-be-do-be-do process, because you need to do, but you also need to be doing nothing.

00:23:13.000 To create.

00:23:14.000 To create.

00:23:15.000 Yeah, the creation process has always been fascinating to me, and I've been saying this for a while, that I think we don't understand, we have the idea of the imagination of what's in the mind as being just, oh, pretend, make-believe, daydreaming,

00:23:31.000 like those things come to mind when we think of imagination, but Everything physical that exists was created in the imagination.

00:23:39.000 The imagination is a machine for creating cities.

00:23:43.000 The imagination created nuclear power.

00:23:46.000 The imagination created satellites.

00:23:48.000 These are all because of the imagination.

00:23:51.000 Without the human imagination, there would be nothing.

00:23:53.000 Well, yes, and now...

00:23:55.000 Yet we look at it frivolously.

00:23:56.000 But quantum physics is taking us a little bit further.

00:24:00.000 Imagination is a good starting point, as I said.

00:24:02.000 But imagination is still in our conscious thought.

00:24:05.000 So we have to understand that when we have conscious thoughts of imagination, Then we are proposing the unconscious to look at new stuff, process new stuff.

00:24:21.000 This is what we are doing.

00:24:22.000 What imagination takes us is from ordinary reality, mundane reality, that is familiar stuff.

00:24:29.000 Imagination is an in-between, half-step beyond that.

00:24:33.000 It's imagination.

00:24:35.000 It's not going to conform to the mundane stuff necessarily, right?

00:24:40.000 We can imagine very arbitrary stuff.

00:24:42.000 So what it does, it starts the beginning of a thought process.

00:24:47.000 Where thoughts can become more and more and more and more weird, and more and more and more new, but it's no longer possible to process them in the conscious.

00:24:59.000 Because in the conscious, we just cannot do it.

00:25:01.000 We don't have the capacity.

00:25:02.000 We are still limited by what we know.

00:25:04.000 The known Imposes too much constraint on what we can imagine in the domain of the unknown.

00:25:12.000 But as soon as it gets into the unconscious, unconscious stuff, more we imagine, the imaginary stuff will interact with other imaginary stuff, the thoughts will mix, and this mixing waves together will produce patterns of what you call patterns of interference of waves.

00:25:28.000 You were mentioning superposition, waves superpose, and creating many, many more new possibilities than before.

00:25:34.000 And one of these possibilities may very well be brand new.

00:25:38.000 That never has been manifested before.

00:25:41.000 So it's always a mystery.

00:25:42.000 How do we go from the known into the unknown?

00:25:45.000 The way we go is this taking advantage of what we call quantum thinking.

00:25:52.000 Thinking where we take advantage of the quantum domain, the domain of possibility, where possibility interacting with possibility creates up completely new stuff that has never manifested before.

00:26:06.000 I've heard you say that you believe that consciousness is non-local.

00:26:11.000 Right.

00:26:12.000 What do you mean by that?

00:26:13.000 Well, if discontinuity, see you are already familiar with discontinuity.

00:26:18.000 Now you want to know even the most, most unfamiliar, Most intriguing.

00:26:24.000 You know, this is like voodoo. 0.86

00:26:26.000 This is really like voodoo.

00:26:29.000 We're now getting into real cracks up.

00:26:32.000 The most surprising thing in quantum physics that surprised even Einstein.

00:26:36.000 Einstein in his whole life could not believe this concept of non-locality, which he himself discovered with two other physicists, Nathan Rosen.

00:26:44.000 How did they discover it?

00:26:45.000 How they discovered his theory.

00:26:47.000 You know, Einstein was a theoretician.

00:26:49.000 He never...

00:26:49.000 Well, I shouldn't say never.

00:26:51.000 He probably did experiments in his young days when he was a graduate student.

00:26:57.000 I did too.

00:26:58.000 But theorists don't do any experiments.

00:27:00.000 What they do is this creative exploration of the mind.

00:27:05.000 By that, they find new ideas.

00:27:07.000 New ideas, and then they predict stuff.

00:27:11.000 So Einstein's idea was, this is 1935, mind you.

00:27:16.000 The idea was that if two quantum objects interact, they become correlated.

00:27:22.000 And this is a new word that he used in that paper, he and his collaborators, Rosen and Podolsky.

00:27:31.000 These people really found, with their theory, with their mathematics, that if two objects once become correlated, then even when they are not interacting, even if they move away from each other, even then they can communicate.

00:27:49.000 Not in the usual way.

00:27:51.000 Not interacting with signals.

00:27:53.000 That's the usual.

00:27:54.000 You and I are interacting right now.

00:27:56.000 But we are interacting through a complexity of sound waves and electrical waves through these microphones.

00:28:02.000 That's all through signals.

00:28:06.000 But these objects communicate without signals.

00:28:10.000 So their communication uses a medium that can only be outside of space and time.

00:28:15.000 Because in space and time, Einstein himself gave us a theory of relativity which says that nothing can interact without exchanging signals going through space and time.

00:28:26.000 But these objects, quantum objects, once correlated, they have the capacity of signal-less communication.

00:28:33.000 This is what is called non-local.

00:28:36.000 Signals are local, going through space.

00:28:39.000 And how do they measure that these particles are communicating?

00:28:44.000 So the key is in that they measure the communication and they show that there is no signal because the communication took place faster than the speed of light.

00:28:53.000 In all local signals going through space and time must travel either at the speed of light or less than the speed of light.

00:29:02.000 So if something can be shown to travel faster than the speed of light, it has to be non-local.

00:29:08.000 And this is what physicists now discovered in the laboratory.

00:29:12.000 Eleanor Spey in 1982 finally verified.

00:29:15.000 Einstein was dead a long time ago, 1955, so he never knew that his theory will one day not only prove to be right, but really revolutionize the whole world of physics by bringing in concepts of consciousness.

00:29:29.000 So what did they measure?

00:29:31.000 Like when you're measuring information that transfers between two particles, what are they measuring exactly?

00:29:36.000 Well, the experiment is a little bit complex probably for a show like this, but I can give you the gister.

00:29:43.000 Too late for that.

00:29:46.000 No, it's intriguing.

00:29:48.000 It's also easy to understand because there is no signal, it's easy to understand.

00:29:53.000 How to detect it is a little more difficult because you have to talk about photons and photons come with a characteristic called polarization and you get more and more technical and I'm sure your listeners will run away,

00:30:10.000 but we don't have to go that far.

00:30:12.000 Let's put it this way.

00:30:13.000 If we irradiate an atom, certain atoms with a laser beam, then they emit sometimes a pair of photons, one going this way, one going that way.

00:30:24.000 So what these experimenters did, one experimenter was measuring this photon over here, The other one was measuring the photon over there in the laboratory, still separated by laboratory distance, let's say several meters.

00:30:41.000 The way the communication went, they could flip.

00:30:46.000 This is why things get a little complicated.

00:30:49.000 They could flip the polarization axis of one of the photons, and the other photon's polarization axis seemed to have flipped instantly.

00:30:57.000 They could show this by the technology that we have now.

00:31:02.000 So it was faster than the speed of light and that shows that there's non-local communication?

00:31:06.000 That shows there is non-local communication between these two photons.

00:31:10.000 In case you're wondering what photons are, they're quanta of light, discrete bundles of light.

00:31:15.000 Now how does that correlate to non-local consciousness?

00:31:19.000 How they correlate to non-local consciousness is the strangest thing that physics is bringing.

00:31:25.000 The reason consciousness enters physics was clear even to Heisenberg.

00:31:32.000 That was back in the 1920s.

00:31:34.000 When Heisenberg discovered his theory, he himself said that, okay, what is happening when we measure a quantum object?

00:31:42.000 Before measurement, we knew the object only vaguely.

00:31:46.000 Possibly the object is here somewhere.

00:31:49.000 That's all we knew.

00:31:50.000 We could only talk about possibility and probability.

00:31:53.000 But after we measure, it's a change in our knowledge about the object.

00:31:57.000 We know what the object is exactly.

00:32:00.000 We have measured it.

00:32:01.000 So from vague knowledge to concrete knowledge, this is what a measurement is about.

00:32:07.000 Now notice the word knowledge was used.

00:32:09.000 What is knowledge?

00:32:11.000 Now, if you look at the word consciousness, it comes from two Latin words.

00:32:17.000 Come, which is con, with, and the rest of the word comes from the Latin word scire, S-C-I-R-E, scire, which means to know.

00:32:28.000 So consciousness is the entity with which we know.

00:32:35.000 So in this way, what is happening when we measure?

00:32:38.000 A change in consciousness.

00:32:43.000 Heisenberg himself was thinking about that measurement process must involve consciousness.

00:32:49.000 How to prove it?

00:32:50.000 John von Neumann took the crucial step.

00:32:53.000 He showed that to change an object, a material object, from possibility to actuality, That concreteness.

00:33:01.000 You could not do this with a material interaction.

00:33:06.000 No material interactions can ever change a possibility wave into a particle of actuality.

00:33:14.000 Now think about it.

00:33:15.000 If material interactions cannot do it, what is needed is some non-material interaction.

00:33:20.000 Does that mean those molecules are conscious in some sort of way?

00:33:24.000 Well, that means that consciousness, they're within consciousness, they must be, otherwise there will be duality.

00:33:30.000 So, we don't say that molecules are conscious, but we say molecules have to be within consciousness.

00:33:37.000 Because if consciousness is the ground of being, And molecules, atoms, solid objects, macro objects, everything is within consciousness as waves of possibility, then we can think of this force that changes possibility into actuality as a conscious choice.

00:33:54.000 Because what is a possibility wave but a packet of multi-faceted potentia?

00:34:00.000 Lots of stuff can happen, right?

00:34:02.000 Multi-facets.

00:34:03.000 And consciousness uses the particular facet that becomes concretized, that becomes actualized.

00:34:08.000 So in this way, we have found not only the force that consciousness implies that changes possibility into actuality, but we know the nature of that force.

00:34:20.000 It consists of choice.

00:34:21.000 Consciousness chooses.

00:34:24.000 And so why is non-locality coming in?

00:34:27.000 So how does consciousness choose in an experiment like a space?

00:34:30.000 Here is a possibility of a photon, here is another possibility of a photon.

00:34:35.000 Consciousness must be choosing them simultaneously because otherwise there would be No non-local communication.

00:34:43.000 So the local communication proves that there's some form of consciousness going on.

00:34:49.000 Non-local communication proves that there is some form of matrix that is involved with the communication that permits faster than the speed of light communication and therefore must be outside of space and time.

00:35:02.000 So there's a connection that we can't measure?

00:35:05.000 There is a connection that we can theorize about, and that connection has to be consciousness because it involves a change about knowledge.

00:35:13.000 Do we think of consciousness the same way universally?

00:35:16.000 Because what you're saying is an instantaneous distribution of information, whereas I think what a lot of people think of as consciousness is being sentient.

00:35:28.000 Yeah, that too.

00:35:29.000 But this is the original consciousness.

00:35:34.000 This is the base.

00:35:37.000 This is the base.

00:35:38.000 So this is why we connected to spiritual traditions so much.

00:35:43.000 You must have heard that the new science is connecting science and spirituality.

00:35:47.000 Once it gets down to the voodoo, they almost have to. 0.98

00:35:50.000 When you get down to those quantum particles, you go, okay, what else you got?

00:35:54.000 We got God over here, man.

00:35:56.000 Want to sit down?

00:35:57.000 Exactly right.

00:35:58.000 So, you know, like in Buddhism, there is this koan, you know, the surprising lines that you hear and that sort of jolts you.

00:36:07.000 What is your face before you were born?

00:36:10.000 You see the possibility, actuality, that parallel?

00:36:14.000 What is your face?

00:36:15.000 What is the face of an electron before it is born?

00:36:18.000 Or what is the sound of one hand clapping?

00:36:20.000 Right.

00:36:20.000 One hand clapping, right?

00:36:22.000 Very Ponian sentences. 1.00

00:36:24.000 What do they mean?

00:36:25.000 Well, they mean quantum physics.

00:36:27.000 What's the sound of one hand clapping?

00:36:29.000 Possibility.

00:36:30.000 The sound of one hand clapping is no sound.

00:36:33.000 No sound.

00:36:33.000 Possibility.

00:36:34.000 Only possibility of sound.

00:36:36.000 Something is there because if it hits something, there will be sound, right?

00:36:39.000 If it hits the other hand...

00:36:41.000 So if it makes contact with something else in the realm...

00:36:45.000 I still don't understand how that relates to human consciousness being non-local instead of contained inside the brain.

00:36:52.000 So I'm coming to that.

00:36:54.000 So then, this is the consciousness as the ground of being.

00:36:59.000 When it chooses, We get actuality.

00:37:03.000 So when you force one, the polarity of one, to change, the other one chooses to stay with it.

00:37:09.000 Stay with it.

00:37:10.000 And that's the concrete measurement.

00:37:13.000 Concrete.

00:37:14.000 Measurement, right?

00:37:15.000 So possibility became measured concrete.

00:37:17.000 We're saying that the medium that chooses is the medium called consciousness.

00:37:23.000 That was in the unconscious state at that time.

00:37:26.000 But now, when the measurement actually has taken place, there has to be two observers with brains in those locations, because consciousness just does not measure arbitrarily.

00:37:37.000 Right, but the idea of it changing, it has to be conscious to change?

00:37:42.000 It can't be just a reaction?

00:37:43.000 There is consciousness and there is these observers.

00:37:46.000 What I'm saying is not only we need the concept of non-local consciousness connecting the objects, connecting the observers, but we also need to get the concept that at the same time there is non-local consciousness, non-material consciousness choosing.

00:38:01.000 At the same time, there must also be the observer.

00:38:04.000 Because without the observer we never see anything.

00:38:09.000 Can you ever imagine finding something without an observer, without a sentient being?

00:38:13.000 So you have to measure the effect of the observer?

00:38:16.000 The observer is also involved, yes.

00:38:19.000 So just by the presence of the observer changes the experiment?

00:38:23.000 Presence of the observer not only changes the experiment, presence of the observer is essential for the experiment itself.

00:38:30.000 Not only non-local consciousness is essential, but so is the observer's brain.

00:38:36.000 And you have to factor that in when considering the possibility of non-local consciousness?

00:38:40.000 You have to factor that in when considering the possibility of actualizing the possibility.

00:38:47.000 Without individual consciousness looking, no actualization ever takes place.

00:38:53.000 So non-local consciousness is a quescent, it's sort of, it's an unconscious existence.

00:39:01.000 Things are processed, but nothing concrete happens in non-local consciousness.

00:39:06.000 Only when the observer is there, Then, this concretization that we are calling, physicists use the word collapse, the waves collapse into the particle.

00:39:17.000 But does this imply that before you existed, nothing else did as well?

00:39:23.000 I mean, what does this imply?

00:39:25.000 So it implies something very strange to absorb initially.

00:39:29.000 What it implies is that before you looked, you yourself did not exist.

00:39:35.000 Before you looked, you didn't exist. 0.98

00:39:38.000 I understand that, but can't we assume that all this other shit was already here? 0.98

00:39:43.000 That's it. 0.91

00:39:44.000 So with the looking, the process of looking, the process of changing possibility into actuality not only creates the object, it creates the very subject that you experience.

00:39:56.000 To you personally, but to all the other people that you live in the neighborhood with, these buildings were real before you got there.

00:40:06.000 No.

00:40:06.000 No?

00:40:07.000 No.

00:40:09.000 Well, they're real as possibility, but they're not real as actuality.

00:40:13.000 In your world or in the world period?

00:40:15.000 Or is your world the whole world?

00:40:17.000 Well, somebody's world got to be present in order to get actuality.

00:40:21.000 I cannot say that only me can create actuality.

00:40:24.000 Then you would be in trouble.

00:40:25.000 You're essentially saying that if you've never seen something, it doesn't exist.

00:40:28.000 No, I'm not saying that me personally.

00:40:29.000 It won't exist until you get there.

00:40:31.000 I'm not saying me personally.

00:40:32.000 Okay.

00:40:33.000 But a sentient object.

00:40:34.000 Someone.

00:40:35.000 Someone has to observe before possibility becomes actuality.

00:40:39.000 Well, someone has to make it.

00:40:41.000 If there's a building, someone has to screw it together.

00:40:44.000 We are sort of the quantum connection.

00:40:46.000 We are the quantum connection to consciousness.

00:40:49.000 Non-local consciousness always exists.

00:40:53.000 But that does not change possibility into actuality.

00:40:56.000 Only in the presence of a concrete observer, possibility changes to actuality.

00:41:01.000 Put two and two together.

00:41:03.000 So what happens?

00:41:04.000 In the presence of an observer, Non-local consciousness collapses.

00:41:10.000 It gives a circularity.

00:41:12.000 Without observer, there is no collapse of the possibility into actuality.

00:41:17.000 But then look at it from the other angle.

00:41:19.000 Without collapse, where is the observer?

00:41:21.000 There is no concrete brain.

00:41:22.000 Brain is just a possibility.

00:41:24.000 This circularity is the key to understanding why quantum measurement can take place in the brain.

00:41:33.000 This circular kind of logic, this circular logic is what manifests reality from possibility.

00:41:41.000 All these devices, like the human brain or a human living cell, living cell of an amoeba even, simplest of creatures, All these very mysterious entities that we have theorized about but could not explain their basic characteristics,

00:42:01.000 like life, sentience, now we can understand how they occur.

00:42:05.000 They occur through quantum measurement involving the circular logic.

00:42:11.000 Doug Hofstadter, who is an artificial intelligence researcher, wrote a marvelous book in 1980 called Goral Escher-Bach.

00:42:18.000 In this book, he talked about these circular logical systems as tangled hierarchies.

00:42:24.000 So, as surprising as it sounds to you, Joe, and I'll just throw at you, brain has a tangled hierarchy within it.

00:42:33.000 This is its specialty.

00:42:34.000 And because it has that, it is capable of experiencing consciousness as being the subject.

00:42:43.000 It captures the subject of consciousness.

00:42:47.000 Consciousness identifies with the brain, and when brain is involved in a measurement process, we who are carrying that brain will say, I am looking at the electron.

00:43:00.000 Just as you with your brain looking at me say, I am looking at Amit.

00:43:04.000 I say, I am looking at Joe.

00:43:05.000 Where does that I-ness come from? 1.00

00:43:07.000 Before the measurement, we are just consciousness, non-local consciousness and possibilities within it.

00:43:13.000 I understand that.

00:43:14.000 But I also understand that although I've never been to downtown Detroit, it's real.

00:43:19.000 Dudes have been there.

00:43:20.000 They've taken pictures.

00:43:21.000 In fact, people built it and they wrote books about it.

00:43:24.000 So I don't have to go there to experience it as an observer to know that it exists.

00:43:29.000 No, you don't.

00:43:29.000 But someone did.

00:43:31.000 Someone has to.

00:43:33.000 Someone had to.

00:43:33.000 If everybody in Detroit all of a sudden just falls asleep, Including all sentient creatures, then there will be no concrete Detroit.

00:43:44.000 That does not mean that when Detroit comes to life again, comes to our consciousness again as objects, it will become a different Detroit.

00:43:54.000 No, changes don't occur that fast.

00:43:55.000 Remember, the waves of possibility are very sluggish for macroscopic objects.

00:44:01.000 So Detroit roughly will appear at the same place The same colors, the same houses, the same streets and all that.

00:44:10.000 Except that mistake occurs in thinking that is always there.

00:44:15.000 It's not there.

00:44:17.000 I still am not understanding how the human consciousness could be measured or proven to be non-local when the brain, what we believe is the center of all this activity that we equate to consciousness,

00:44:34.000 This is a very perceptive question.

00:44:35.000 If it's affected, if it's shut off, if it's damaged, we know that it affects consciousness profoundly.

00:44:41.000 So what is the basis for believing that this consciousness is non-local?

00:44:46.000 How do you prove it?

00:44:47.000 This is still theory, is what you're saying.

00:44:49.000 No, I'm not just asking.

00:44:53.000 Let's analyze what we are really saying.

00:44:55.000 So I, as a brain, make a representation of that consciousness that we are calling non-local.

00:45:02.000 So you build a picture of what it is?

00:45:04.000 Same for everybody.

00:45:05.000 It's like, think of it as the, you know, you have seen our archipelago, right?

00:45:10.000 The islands stand out over the ocean, but underneath all the islands are connected.

00:45:15.000 So think of us as connected by this overarching non-local consciousness.

00:45:20.000 But then we are also individual brains, right?

00:45:23.000 Each of us are making a representation of the consciousness that we call our subjecthood.

00:45:29.000 I'm a subject to you, the object, but I'm an object to you, the subject.

00:45:35.000 So we both have that reciprocity.

00:45:37.000 How do we know that we are non-locally connected?

00:45:40.000 So a neurophysiologist at the University of Mexico experimentally verified this.

00:45:45.000 How do we know?

00:45:46.000 Well, let's meditate together, he said, with the idea that we will be communicating without signals, directly, without signals.

00:45:57.000 So we meditate for 20 minutes, then we are sent over to what is called Faraday cages.

00:46:03.000 Faraday cages are cages, chambers, which are electromagnetically impervious.

00:46:09.000 No electromagnetic wave can go through the walls of this Faraday cage.

00:46:13.000 So you and I are sitting in individual Faraday cages.

00:46:16.000 What that means is that we cannot communicate with any kind of electromagnetic signals.

00:46:21.000 So you can't send a message, a text message?

00:46:24.000 You cannot send a message.

00:46:25.000 You cannot send an electromagnetic message.

00:46:26.000 Nothing can get in.

00:46:27.000 Nothing can get in.

00:46:28.000 But we are still meditating with the idea that somehow we'll communicate directly without signals.

00:46:33.000 And now, both of our brains are connected to individual EEG machines, electroencephalogram.

00:46:41.000 Measure brain waves.

00:46:43.000 And one of the subjects is shown a series of light flashes.

00:46:47.000 That, of course, will produce electrical activity in the occipital area of the brain, and the brain wave apparatus, the EEG, will pick it up, measure it.

00:46:57.000 It appears in a graph which is called evoke potential.

00:47:03.000 When you extract the signal out of all the brainwaves, eliminating the noise.

00:47:08.000 So far, no surprise.

00:47:10.000 The other subject is not shown.

00:47:13.000 This is what the surprise is.

00:47:14.000 So please listen carefully.

00:47:16.000 The other subject is not shown a series of light flashes.

00:47:19.000 No light flashes at all.

00:47:20.000 The other subject is connected to the first subject only via this intention, meditation.

00:47:26.000 We will have direct communication.

00:47:30.000 So how do we know direct communication has occurred?

00:47:32.000 The brain waves from this subject Not exposed to light waves, just brain waves of this subject, who is vegetating basically, are picked up from the electroencephalogram machine connected to that brain and then analyzed in exactly the same way,

00:47:49.000 eliminate the noise, extract the signal.

00:47:53.000 The two Signals extracted, one from a subject who has seen light flashes, one from a subject which has not seen light flashes.

00:48:04.000 The two extracted potentials, one is the evoked potential, the other one is called transferred potential.

00:48:12.000 They overlap almost exactly, like 70% overlap is often seen, 80% overlap is often seen.

00:48:21.000 It's amazing.

00:48:23.000 They not only have the same strength, But also the same phase.

00:48:26.000 So, explain to the layman.

00:48:29.000 They're experiencing light flashes?

00:48:31.000 Only one is experiencing light flashes.

00:48:36.000 The other one, no light flashes.

00:48:38.000 But the other one has a reaction in his mind that's similar to the light flashes.

00:48:46.000 Reaction in his brain anyway, which shows that the effect of the light flashes, electrical activity, somehow, without signals, has been transferred from one brain to the other.

00:48:58.000 Why was it then assumed that consciousness is non-local instead of...

00:49:04.000 So therefore, we say that the two brains are non-locally connected?

00:49:08.000 Non-locally connected?

00:49:10.000 Non-locally connected.

00:49:11.000 So that connection matrix is what we call consciousness.

00:49:14.000 Isn't it possible, though, that the mind is where consciousness is stored, but yet it communicates non-locally with other minds and other consciousness that are also stored in people's brains?

00:49:24.000 And that the consciousness is in the brain, and that the non-locality is just the connection?

00:49:29.000 No, you are making not quite conceivable scenes for this.

00:49:40.000 That's not conceivable?

00:49:41.000 That's not conceivable.

00:49:42.000 I'll tell you why.

00:49:43.000 Suppose you imagine consciousness to be contained in your brain.

00:49:47.000 Imagine consciousness contained in this brain and in this brain.

00:49:51.000 But what are you saying?

00:49:52.000 You're saying that mind is the...

00:49:54.000 You're just inventing another word To convey the notion that there is a non-local matrix.

00:50:03.000 You want to call it mind, I want to call it consciousness.

00:50:06.000 That's the only difference.

00:50:07.000 Okay?

00:50:08.000 Because, look, there is brain here, there is brain here.

00:50:11.000 No need to say that brain involves something else.

00:50:15.000 What brain involves, brain contains, those are words we can give, but not necessary.

00:50:20.000 Here is a brain, here is a brain.

00:50:22.000 Somehow they are communicating, right?

00:50:25.000 Without any signals.

00:50:27.000 Because signal could not pass through the Faraday cases.

00:50:30.000 Right, I understand.

00:50:31.000 So without any signal, this brain and this brain are communicating.

00:50:35.000 Communicating by, like what?

00:50:37.000 Communicating with a transfer of actual electrical potential that is measurable by physical experiments.

00:50:44.000 So nothing like mental telepathic.

00:50:47.000 Physical transfer of something.

00:50:49.000 Physical transfer of energy without any...

00:50:52.000 Physical transfer of a reaction to something.

00:50:54.000 Well, not energy.

00:50:55.000 Physical transfer of information, let's put that, not energy.

00:50:58.000 No energy actually goes from one way to the other.

00:51:01.000 But the brains change in such a way, there is obviously a synchrony in the way this brain changed, but this brain changed because light flashes fall on that brain.

00:51:11.000 This brain changing not because of light flashes, but because this brain is associated with this meditative awareness.

00:51:18.000 If that's the case, then wouldn't it do you justice to get as far away from a city as possible?

00:51:24.000 Because aren't you constantly communicating with all the minds in your city?

00:51:28.000 And if they're all in a good headspace, that's great.

00:51:32.000 But if not, aren't you experiencing the crazy light flashes of a million neighbors?

00:51:37.000 The possibilities are there.

00:51:40.000 But how far away can you get then?

00:51:42.000 Do you feel that on the top of the mountains?

00:51:44.000 It might help you out though, right?

00:51:46.000 It might be positive to have that much brain action around you.

00:51:49.000 Yeah, especially if they're smart and nice.

00:51:50.000 But one does not need to be so much scared.

00:51:53.000 I mean, it's true that some of that may very well be true.

00:51:55.000 In the emotional domain, I actually believe that it is somewhat true.

00:52:00.000 But actually...

00:52:02.000 I believe it's true.

00:52:02.000 I believe you could feel it.

00:52:05.000 Look, at the football stadium, we see this, right?

00:52:08.000 I mean, one guy becomes angry and how that anger spreads.

00:52:11.000 Does it spread only locally?

00:52:13.000 Most of the people have not even seen the anger where it took place, where it began.

00:52:18.000 So there could very well be a non-local component in that kind of thing.

00:52:22.000 A hive mind that you experience in concerts as well.

00:52:25.000 When you watch a concert and everyone has their hand up in the air with a lighter and they're all singing along the journey.

00:52:30.000 Right?

00:52:31.000 They're locked in there, man.

00:52:33.000 It affects us in a very positive way.

00:52:35.000 Yes.

00:52:37.000 But how does that not happen in a regular way?

00:52:44.000 Because we would go crazy.

00:52:45.000 The reason is the saving grace is the I see what you're saying.

00:53:07.000 So unless we have some sort of context to put it into in our own lives, it doesn't affect us as information.

00:53:14.000 Quantum physics even gives it more exactly, it uses the word correlation.

00:53:19.000 We need to be correlated, like that in the experiment that I just described, which by the way was performed first by a neurophysiologist named Jacobo Greenberg at the University of Mexico.

00:53:31.000 But that kind of thing, you know, his experiment depended crucially on this conscious meditative intention.

00:53:41.000 But people can get correlated simpler than that.

00:53:44.000 Like in a football stadium, people are getting correlated just by the simply identification with the team.

00:53:50.000 That can correlate people.

00:53:52.000 On the internet, we never see people, but we are correlated because we are some cause that brings us together.

00:54:00.000 So there are many ways to get correlated.

00:54:03.000 And then if people, once they become correlated, certain things, I believe that it's easier to transfer emotions than actual thoughts.

00:54:14.000 In the thought realm, we don't correlate very well because thoughts are rational and rationality takes us away from this non-local consciousness.

00:54:22.000 But when we are emotional, Then this non-local consciousness can correlate us and the effects can travel much better.

00:54:31.000 This is why one person's bad mood can get another person into bad mood.

00:54:37.000 Or one person's happiness can be communicated to another person's happiness.

00:54:41.000 Happiness is most certainly infectious.

00:54:44.000 That's one of the reasons why comedy clubs work. 1.00

00:54:47.000 Laughter, you know, laughter becomes infectious when everyone around you is laughing as well.

00:54:51.000 Yes, yes.

00:54:51.000 They have a laughing meditation today.

00:54:53.000 It's taking off like wildfire in some places.

00:54:56.000 Laughing meditation?

00:54:57.000 Laughing meditation.

00:54:58.000 I went to India recently, Bangalore, and they have parks, you know, where people gather together every morning like at 6, 6.30, and they will have this laughing meditation.

00:55:10.000 It's a wonderful thing to watch, and you watch for a while, you yourself will start laughing.

00:55:15.000 That's funny.

00:55:15.000 Do you just tickle each other?

00:55:17.000 No, no, without tickling.

00:55:19.000 This is the thing.

00:55:20.000 Well, part of it, of course, is local communication, no denying it.

00:55:25.000 So jokes and then just the wave of laughter?

00:55:27.000 Why don't they just start laughing?

00:55:29.000 You just start laughing.

00:55:30.000 And you're supposed to laugh, so everybody just...

00:55:32.000 But you know, you could not maintain that kind of saying for very long.

00:55:37.000 If anything, the mouth muscles will get tired and so forth.

00:55:41.000 But here, because of that non-local correlation which comes into play after a while, you can see more than what you'd expect just imitating other people to laugh.

00:55:52.000 Wow.

00:55:53.000 That's fascinating.

00:55:54.000 So these people, how many of them meet?

00:55:57.000 Oh, like 50 people.

00:55:58.000 50 people.

00:55:59.000 They just get together and just laugh.

00:56:00.000 For how long did they do it for?

00:56:01.000 I want to see this.

00:56:01.000 I want to see this back.

00:56:04.000 About 15, 20 minutes.

00:56:06.000 20 minutes are just howling.

00:56:07.000 Well, I have seen it.

00:56:09.000 It is kind of very, very amusing.

00:56:13.000 Wow.

00:56:15.000 If you forgive me, I still don't understand how that makes consciousness non-local.

00:56:21.000 I understand that there's communication.

00:56:22.000 I understand that there's some sort of a shared… Well, laughing meditation, this kind of thing… But even the experiments you were talking about… This kind of thing, something unusual happens, is not very difficult to show.

00:56:35.000 Dean Radhan, Who is a parapsychologist working at the Institute of Noetic Sciences.

00:56:42.000 Dean Radden does the following experiment.

00:56:45.000 He takes what is called random number generators.

00:56:48.000 These things are devices in which radioactive decays are taking place.

00:56:54.000 Decays are completely random.

00:56:56.000 As you know, radioactivity is a quantum process, completely random.

00:56:59.000 Radioactive, say that again?

00:57:01.000 Radioactivity is a quantum process, completely random.

00:57:04.000 Random decays are taking place.

00:57:06.000 These random decays are processed by a computer to generate random arrays of zeros and ones.

00:57:12.000 So they're called random number generators.

00:57:15.000 Right, I've heard of this.

00:57:16.000 So you have random arrays supposedly.

00:57:19.000 And there will be some deviation from randomness which can be calculated.

00:57:23.000 The rules of statistics gives you that.

00:57:26.000 But Radhan had the tremendous insight of taking these machines to meditative places.

00:57:34.000 I don't know if he has actually done this with laughing meditators, but he could.

00:57:38.000 And what I'm saying is that in the presence of meditative people, these random number generators start behaving non-randomly.

00:57:47.000 Non-normally quite way beyond what the predicted deviation should be.

00:57:53.000 So were they concentrating on specific numbers to be generated?

00:57:58.000 Yeah, zeros and ones.

00:58:00.000 And you should have...

00:58:02.000 A uniform number, essentially.

00:58:04.000 Yeah, a random array should have equal zeros and equal ones.

00:58:07.000 Did they concentrate on one group on zero, one group on one?

00:58:10.000 No, no, they didn't do anything.

00:58:11.000 They're just meditating.

00:58:12.000 Just meditating changed it?

00:58:14.000 Just meditating.

00:58:14.000 And how did it affect it?

00:58:15.000 The random number generator, the numbers they generate, they're not so random anymore.

00:58:21.000 Right.

00:58:21.000 There is more zeros than ones.

00:58:23.000 But wouldn't that, in fact, I mean, the whole idea of quantum leaping and quantum teleportation, meaning that distance really isn't an issue, right?

00:58:34.000 Yeah, distance is not an issue.

00:58:35.000 So why is it that with these people meditating in the room with all this jazz that it affects it, whereas I would assume anytime you run a random number generator, there's someone meditating somewhere in the world, probably massive groups of them.

00:58:49.000 How could the effect of just a couple individuals vary that much from the great hive?

00:58:54.000 Very, very intelligent question.

00:58:55.000 But remember, I also told about another factor.

00:58:59.000 People have to be correlated.

00:59:01.000 Right.

00:59:01.000 So that local correlation is important.

00:59:04.000 Now, if you correlate and then look for these effects, send people away and they still remain correlated because they are meditating, then that should work.

00:59:15.000 If you set up a group of meditators, but not in Los Angeles, but in Los Angeles and San Francisco and New York, but they all were correlated, In some ways, by telephone or by internet or some intention given by a common source,

00:59:31.000 once they're correlated and they start meditating, distance should not matter.

00:59:35.000 Okay, so essentially what you're saying is their energy focused on this one thing can now be measured, whereas if their energy is not focused on it, it doesn't have an effect on it, and the focusing on the thing The focusing is the intention.

00:59:50.000 If we translate the word focusing to intention, then I would agree with you.

00:59:54.000 Okay.

00:59:54.000 Focusing is too general to convey the complete notion.

00:59:58.000 I understand.

00:59:58.000 But it's something like a focusing, because intention is also a focusing.

01:00:02.000 That, to me, if it's truly measurable, definitely shows there's some effect that the mind has on its...

01:00:10.000 Yeah, except that the word mind we use slightly differently.

01:00:13.000 Consciousness.

01:00:14.000 Consciousness, okay.

01:00:15.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:00:15.000 Consciousness is having an effect.

01:00:17.000 But I still, I don't know how that keeps you from, I mean, I don't know how that makes consciousness being non-local a proven thing.

01:00:27.000 So how did you communicate?

01:00:29.000 How did you communicate?

01:00:30.000 Our picture is very simple, like this.

01:00:32.000 You and I had a transfer potential.

01:00:35.000 Electrical activity was transferred from my brain to your brain without any electrical connection.

01:00:41.000 The connection is non-local, no question, right?

01:00:43.000 You're not having any difficulty with that.

01:00:45.000 That's just fact.

01:00:46.000 How do we interpret it?

01:00:47.000 To interpret it, how could this happen?

01:00:51.000 How could this happen is because you, although you have not been exposed to these light flashes now, but you have in your brain memory of seeing light flashes.

01:01:03.000 You have seen light flashes many times in your life.

01:01:06.000 And it's because we're correlated.

01:01:08.000 No, no, because you have seen them before.

01:01:11.000 Okay, I see what you're saying.

01:01:12.000 So, out of these memories, which are all unconscious processes, by the way, whenever you are vegetating, your unconscious brain, unconscious, unconscious, picks up this brain stuff and they become the subjects of the unconscious for processing.

01:01:34.000 So unconscious always has these memories to That's an interesting point.

01:01:40.000 Then what happens if you do an experiment where one person experiences something that they have no background in, have never seen before, most people don't know, nor does the other person in the other room who's going to receive the signal, how does he process something that he's never experienced before?

01:01:57.000 Right.

01:01:57.000 In that case, transfer potential would be very difficult.

01:01:59.000 So it's based on memory?

01:02:01.000 Well, based on the brain memory existing.

01:02:04.000 Understanding what it's seeing.

01:02:05.000 And then consciousness is choosing from that.

01:02:07.000 So how did...

01:02:08.000 It's not a shitty way to communicate.

01:02:09.000 No, not at all.

01:02:11.000 Because what a marvelous way to communicate.

01:02:13.000 Well, you have to have memory of it, though.

01:02:14.000 Yeah, you have to have memory of it.

01:02:16.000 But most things that we think about, or most things we are exposed, we have memories of it.

01:02:21.000 I mean, how many new things, completely new things, do you get exposed in a day?

01:02:27.000 I would say zero.

01:02:28.000 You should party with this dude on a weekend. 1.00

01:02:30.000 You get exposed to new shit, son. 0.99

01:02:33.000 But really zero, because there will be at least something common. 1.00

01:02:36.000 I understand that there's communication.

01:02:38.000 What I do not understand is the defining of consciousness.

01:02:41.000 Give the name.

01:02:43.000 How is this memory being actualized in your brain?

01:02:49.000 Ask that question.

01:02:50.000 There's some sort of a signal, a transfer of information, but not even a good one.

01:02:53.000 No, wait a minute.

01:02:54.000 Because it only relies on someone...

01:02:56.000 Wait a minute.

01:02:57.000 Remember, being quantum physics, you're thinking classically again.

01:03:01.000 Okay, I'm sorry.

01:03:01.000 Newtonian.

01:03:02.000 I'm sorry.

01:03:02.000 No, being quantum physics.

01:03:03.000 I'm all Newtonian.

01:03:05.000 Unfortunately.

01:03:06.000 No, but that is the problem.

01:03:08.000 We are all Newtonian when we are not using subtle language.

01:03:12.000 So you have to sort of get used to it.

01:03:14.000 I understand.

01:03:14.000 Your brain is possibility.

01:03:16.000 So this unconscious is just giving you possibility.

01:03:19.000 So unless this entity called consciousness is choosing possibility, you would not have the actual transfer potential.

01:03:26.000 So how can you have a transfer potential from evoke potential being transferred by a non-local matrix that we are calling consciousness?

01:03:34.000 Because it has to be consciousness which chooses out of the possibilities of your brain generated by previous memory because you are meditating with your partner.

01:03:48.000 And the partner has seen these light flashes.

01:03:52.000 Consciousness, by virtue of that correlation, is choosing from your unconscious, which has the memory, but nothing more than that, has the possibility, but nothing more than that, no actuality.

01:04:03.000 But consciousness is choosing the actuality because you are meditating to receive that.

01:04:09.000 Sir, I'm going to have to disagree with you.

01:04:12.000 This is why.

01:04:14.000 I understand what you're saying.

01:04:17.000 I completely do.

01:04:18.000 But I don't think it necessarily means that consciousness is non-local.

01:04:25.000 Make an alternative model.

01:04:27.000 It doesn't have to be an alternative model.

01:04:29.000 Just the idea of communication and only through information being passed forth.

01:04:35.000 What you're measuring is so like 70% is huge,

01:04:51.000 I'll tell you.

01:04:52.000 When you don't meditate, When you don't meditate, the potential of the other person who is vegetating is practically zero, nothing.

01:05:05.000 So there's no transfer whatsoever if no one's meditating?

01:05:08.000 No transfer whatsoever.

01:05:08.000 If you don't meditate, they never found any transfer potential.

01:05:13.000 But whenever you meditate, all of a sudden there is this electric potential which is like 70%, 80%, 60% of the direct evil potential.

01:05:24.000 There is something here.

01:05:25.000 So there's something being transferred.

01:05:27.000 Something being transferred without any signal.

01:05:30.000 I totally appreciate that.

01:05:33.000 So the matrix between the two people I'm just giving it a name.

01:05:38.000 That matrix we call consciousness.

01:05:40.000 Because what is happening in the two people?

01:05:43.000 Consciousness is, remember, the vehicle to know with.

01:05:46.000 So what is happening is that something is being transferred which has no basis for the transfer.

01:05:53.000 Transfer takes energy.

01:05:54.000 That is our usual experience.

01:05:56.000 Here is transfer taking place without any energy transfer, without any signal transfer.

01:06:00.000 I totally understand that.

01:06:02.000 Why?

01:06:02.000 Because the possibility of that is already there in the other brain and consciousness is choosing the possibility and making it actual.

01:06:09.000 How is that any different than distributing information?

01:06:12.000 How is it any different than one person has an experience and relays that experience through information to the other person?

01:06:20.000 With local signals.

01:06:23.000 Yeah, through something.

01:06:24.000 Through some sort of a connection.

01:06:26.000 Yeah, local signals.

01:06:27.000 But not like sound signals or being able to communicate.

01:06:30.000 I mean, in the meditative state, exchanging information.

01:06:34.000 If it is not local signals, then it is consciousness only.

01:06:38.000 Now you've got to.

01:06:39.000 You're getting it.

01:06:40.000 You're just objecting to language.

01:06:42.000 But does the person who is sitting in the other room, who's receiving these signals, do they have a memory of this?

01:06:48.000 Is there a cognitive impact?

01:06:50.000 There is the definite signal that I'm detecting for this brain.

01:06:55.000 Is the person aware of it who detects it besides the scientist?

01:06:57.000 No, there is no cognition in the other person because the brain is so complex.

01:07:03.000 Unless you focus on something, we have not yet been able to isolate a cognitive change in the person.

01:07:12.000 See, that's where I'm having a hard time making the leap between what I understand to be a clear sense of some sort of a communication.

01:07:21.000 But how does that mean that all consciousness is non-local?

01:07:24.000 How does that not mean some new form of communication that is evolving inside the human body?

01:07:33.000 Now you are missing another language.

01:07:35.000 I'm sorry, but I mean...

01:07:36.000 No, no, no.

01:07:37.000 It's a new form.

01:07:38.000 Exactly right.

01:07:39.000 Am I getting Newtonian?

01:07:40.000 Did I go Newtonian on you?

01:07:41.000 No, no.

01:07:41.000 If you don't go Newtonian, it is a new form of communication.

01:07:44.000 Right, I understand.

01:07:45.000 True consciousness.

01:07:45.000 That's all I'm saying.

01:07:47.000 But it's rudimentary right now.

01:07:49.000 Look, I'm just giving it a name.

01:07:51.000 Okay.

01:07:51.000 You agree that there is something non-local, right?

01:07:53.000 If you're telling me – you're telling me.

01:07:55.000 I don't understand any of this.

01:07:57.000 I agree that in your story, in your – no, I don't want to say story.

01:08:01.000 I mean in your experiment that you explained to me.

01:08:03.000 Yes, I agree.

01:08:04.000 Joe, slow down.

01:08:04.000 Slow down.

01:08:04.000 Okay, sorry.

01:08:05.000 You already agreed many times actually during this broadcast that there is without signals a transfer of information or transfer of electric potential.

01:08:18.000 Completely.

01:08:18.000 It's completely based on your story.

01:08:20.000 Completely based on the experimental data.

01:08:22.000 I don't mean story, that's a bad word for it.

01:08:25.000 I mean your information that you're presenting me.

01:08:28.000 The experimental data.

01:08:29.000 Two dozen experiments in two dozen laboratories in different parts of the world.

01:08:33.000 What we call this matrix of transfer of signals is where our difference is.

01:08:41.000 What I'm saying is, if you look at the rest of our theory, Because it takes consciousness to pull up anything.

01:08:49.000 To choose information.

01:08:50.000 So we call this matrix consciousness.

01:08:53.000 Okay.

01:08:53.000 And in fact, the person who's receiving it on the other end, even though consciousness is non-local, the other person isn't even conscious, they're receiving it, if you want to look at it that way, or cognizant.

01:09:03.000 No, that would not help very much for the experiment.

01:09:06.000 Remember, people already have data, extensive data of telepathy.

01:09:11.000 Really?

01:09:12.000 Yeah.

01:09:12.000 What's the most convincing data of telepathy that you've experienced?

01:09:15.000 Let me tell you, I have myself experience.

01:09:19.000 Or that you know of.

01:09:21.000 Again, it's subjective, so people of course would object.

01:09:25.000 But these experiments, called distant viewing experiments, have been done now.

01:09:31.000 Remote viewing?

01:09:32.000 Remote viewing.

01:09:33.000 It's now done so accurately, analyzed by computers.

01:09:37.000 You are looking at a town square, at a statue.

01:09:41.000 Your correlated person, correlated by the intention of the experimenter, is sitting in a closet in the laboratory.

01:09:50.000 He's just drawing a picture of the statue that you're looking at.

01:09:55.000 Nobody knows what you're looking at.

01:09:57.000 A computer has chosen where you will go to look at the statue.

01:10:01.000 A computer, unbeknownst to everyone connected with the experiment, is analyzing the picture that your correlated friend, psychic, is drawing of what you're looking at.

01:10:13.000 And then the computer is bringing the two together, the picture of the statue that you're actually looking at and the picture that the person has drawn.

01:10:21.000 The computer does the matching, and the computer says, hey, there is 90% match between these two.

01:10:27.000 This could not be just a happenstance.

01:10:30.000 This got to be a transfer of information, got to be an example of telepathic communication.

01:10:36.000 What studies specifically have shown remote viewing to be that accurate?

01:10:42.000 Is there anything that you could, just for the folks listening?

01:10:44.000 Yeah, this is Russell Targ and Harold Putoff started this kind of experiment in 1970s.

01:10:53.000 Yeah, Russell Targ is actually coming on the podcast.

01:10:56.000 He's going to be on in April.

01:11:00.000 Yeah, he was one of the pioneers.

01:11:03.000 So they started this in 1970s, 73, 74, if I remember it right.

01:11:10.000 And he and Harold Puthoff, his partner, they did a lot of this in SRI, Stanford Research Institute.

01:11:17.000 And what the new thing is that the analysis is done very objectively.

01:11:25.000 It's no longer subject.

01:11:27.000 But even then, material is object to it because it's still the mind.

01:11:33.000 But in the experiment that I gave you, transfer potential experiment of Harko Greenberg, nobody can object because the mind is not involved.

01:11:42.000 Actually, if cognition got involved, people immediately start saying, oh, it's subjective.

01:11:47.000 But here, the transfer actually is in the objective domain.

01:11:52.000 Measurable, materially measurable electric potential here, a materially measurable electric potential there.

01:12:00.000 In between, no local connection.

01:12:02.000 And therefore the proof actually in this experiment, the transfer potential experiment, is the most accurate proof of non-locality than you ever saw.

01:12:12.000 So that means that there's a connection that we don't know about that has always existed between human beings constantly and the only thing that's missing is the intention and the focus on the two together.

01:12:28.000 Right.

01:12:29.000 Now you stated it, complete accuracy.

01:12:32.000 I'm sorry, is this something that you think as we have evolved from lower primates to human beings, is this something that is beginning to show its potential in the human species?

01:12:43.000 Is it something that might improve and expand?

01:12:46.000 If you believe other experimental data that people have been collecting since the early 50s or 60s, like what is the name of that fellow, Baxter.

01:13:00.000 I forget his first name.

01:13:01.000 Clyde Baxter?

01:13:02.000 I can look it up for you.

01:13:05.000 Clyde Baxter.

01:13:06.000 Baxter.

01:13:06.000 Baxter is the last name.

01:13:08.000 That I know.

01:13:08.000 He did some experiment with communication with plants.

01:13:13.000 Communication with plants?

01:13:16.000 So that was one of the earliest experiments.

01:13:20.000 And there are others.

01:13:21.000 So it's not just humans.

01:13:23.000 Plants have that ability.

01:13:25.000 Probably even amoeba has that ability, but at a very rudimentary...

01:13:31.000 His name is Cleve, C-L-E-V-E Baxter.

01:13:35.000 Cleve Baxter, okay.

01:13:36.000 What kind of name is that?

01:13:39.000 But great experiment.

01:13:41.000 He was discredited much, but now we understand that there could really be something in his experiments.

01:13:48.000 Yeah, that is absolutely fascinating, that there's a perception between animals, and he did it using a polygraph machine.

01:13:56.000 Yeah, he was polygraphic.

01:13:58.000 But Rupert Sheldrake is one of the latest entries in this.

01:14:02.000 He is showing that dogs communicate telepathically with their masters.

01:14:07.000 Yeah, I heard about this, and I've also heard some other things that Rupert Sheldrake has said recently, something about the speed of light varying, which a lot of people are coming down on him for, that it's bad science, and that it's pseudoscience at best.

01:14:21.000 I haven't seen that.

01:14:22.000 Yeah, I haven't seen that either, but the people in my message board were going bananas about him.

01:14:27.000 Because he's a very controversial character in the first place because if what he says is true, like as the amazing Randy is always offered, I think it's a million dollars for anybody can prove any sort of psychic connection.

01:14:39.000 Why isn't anybody taking that guy up on this?

01:14:41.000 Because he won't pay.

01:14:42.000 He doesn't pay.

01:14:43.000 He doesn't pay. 0.98

01:14:45.000 That's not a bitch. 1.00

01:14:46.000 Because he always finds, like, you know, you can always object, no, this is 70% transfer. 0.67

01:14:51.000 I want 100% transfer.

01:14:53.000 Is that what he does?

01:14:54.000 I don't know what he does, but he will not pay.

01:14:56.000 Look, in this kind of situation, you can always raise some objection to everything.

01:15:03.000 Has there ever been a study that you've seen on these dogs, knowing that their masters are coming home?

01:15:09.000 I've heard it's true.

01:15:09.000 I've seen the movie.

01:15:11.000 What movie is that?

01:15:12.000 Rupert made a movie of this.

01:15:13.000 And I saw the movie.

01:15:15.000 It's remarkable.

01:15:16.000 I know him.

01:15:17.000 I'm a good friend of his, actually.

01:15:19.000 So my wife and I went to his house and he showed us a movie of the dog and also the parrot.

01:15:27.000 The parrots he has shown also can communicate telepathically with their masters.

01:15:32.000 It's amazing.

01:15:33.000 The dog movie I remember very clearly.

01:15:36.000 The dog is waiting in the house and his regular sitting place is the sofa.

01:15:43.000 That's where as soon as the master leaves, he jumps on the sofa and rests there.

01:15:47.000 You know, dogs have to have it.

01:15:49.000 They love human warmth, warming up the sofa, the particular place where the master sat and they will stay there.

01:15:56.000 So he's there, and 5 o'clock comes, right?

01:16:00.000 Master is now getting up from her desk.

01:16:06.000 And the dog jumps and comes to the window.

01:16:11.000 It's time and time again he has photographed the dog and photographs the Master.

01:16:17.000 So dogs are becoming aware as soon as the Master is ready to come home.

01:16:22.000 And that awareness is shown by the dog jumping down at that exact time as Master gets up from her desk, his desk, to come home.

01:16:32.000 It's amazing.

01:16:33.000 He's done it multiple times though?

01:16:35.000 Multiple times of it and always using cameras in both places in synchrony and always exactly at that time the dog will react.

01:16:46.000 That's crazy.

01:16:46.000 And if the master does not get up from the desk, the dog will not get up from his sofa either.

01:16:53.000 So it's quite amazing these responses.

01:16:56.000 So what I suspect...

01:16:57.000 Why doesn't he just collect that million?

01:17:00.000 I feel like that's, you know, if you got that, his concept is called morphic resonance, is that the...

01:17:08.000 No, this is just telepathy.

01:17:10.000 He would not bring morphic resonance for this one.

01:17:13.000 Morphic resonance are matrix for transforming people's learning.

01:17:19.000 That's a slightly different thing.

01:17:20.000 You learn something, it's stored in the morphic fields, morphogenetic fields.

01:17:25.000 And then I might be able to get these morphogenetic fields to communicate.

01:17:33.000 Yeah, the concept I thought was kind of related because he deals in an interconnectivity sort of a way too with this.

01:17:42.000 He believes that if animals Have animals like of a species have a certain sort of a database almost.

01:17:49.000 And then if rats in St. Paul learn how to get through a maze, the same rats in Florida will be able to get through it quicker.

01:17:56.000 Yeah, but this kind of thing has to be taken with a grain of salt.

01:17:59.000 That does?

01:18:00.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:18:00.000 And all the crazy shit we've talked about, that has to be taken with a grain of salt? 0.99

01:18:03.000 Yeah, because the transfer is occurring to these fields, the morphogenetic fields. 0.89

01:18:12.000 It may not transfer in exactly that form.

01:18:18.000 What I'm saying is that originally what happened was people started this kind of thinking because an experiment seemed to have done.

01:18:26.000 This is a real experiment.

01:18:28.000 A real experiment was that in an island, some monkeys learned a monkey mother.

01:18:38.000 That's how it started.

01:18:39.000 A monkey mother learned To wash her sweet potato before eating. 1.00

01:18:46.000 And she found that the taste improves much, so she immediately taught it to her offspring.

01:18:52.000 So the baby monkeys are also learning that.

01:18:56.000 And then the entire island of monkeys learned to wash their sweet potatoes before eating.

01:19:02.000 Okay.

01:19:03.000 Somehow, this was the data, anthropological data, I've looked at the paper in the original journal, it's fine.

01:19:11.000 But when somehow somebody reported on this data in a book, that somebody invented an extension which never happened, which is that monkeys in a nearby island without any connection, Picked up the same learning.

01:19:29.000 So it's a lie.

01:19:30.000 Well, it was an exaggeration.

01:19:33.000 That never was verified.

01:19:35.000 Researchers that exaggerate, that's a dangerous thing.

01:19:38.000 That's a dangerous habit.

01:19:39.000 Writers exaggerate.

01:19:40.000 This is not a researcher exaggerating.

01:19:42.000 Writers exaggerate.

01:19:43.000 Comedians exaggerate too, but it's funny.

01:19:45.000 Politicians exaggerate.

01:19:47.000 Unfortunately, communicators exaggerate.

01:19:50.000 Communicators exaggerate because we are used to Attract attention.

01:19:54.000 Anything for the sake of attention.

01:19:56.000 So maybe they just wanted to get funding for their research?

01:19:59.000 Well, not that way.

01:20:00.000 No researcher exaggerated.

01:20:02.000 It's only the communicators.

01:20:03.000 They think that the book will sell more if I say something very strongly.

01:20:07.000 I understand.

01:20:07.000 I would assume that something like animals washing their food, if human beings, I mean the word evolution is a very touchy subject amongst people when it comes to natural selection and the advancement of the species, but It's commonly acknowledged scientifically that we were once primitive organisms.

01:20:27.000 That's all that was on the planet.

01:20:29.000 If that is the case, the intelligent animals like chimpanzees or monkeys or whatever, I would assume that much like people slowly all over the world figured out how to make tools with rocks, that monkeys would slowly figure out new things as well.

01:20:44.000 Cats and cat litter.

01:20:45.000 Yeah.

01:20:45.000 Did they invent themselves?

01:20:47.000 No, I'm just saying that cats are born just knowing how to use the cat litter box.

01:20:50.000 It's in their...

01:20:51.000 No, yeah, exactly.

01:20:52.000 Right, but they never get smart enough to use the phone.

01:20:54.000 Thank you for pointing that out.

01:20:56.000 Exactly.

01:20:57.000 It seemed interesting because you were right and you were right.

01:21:00.000 You were right because it is true that lots of things don't get transferred so easily.

01:21:06.000 And it is also true that there are this case of instinct.

01:21:10.000 There was some transference of that kind of thing that universally everybody has picked up since then.

01:21:16.000 What's your feeling on epigenetics?

01:21:19.000 Epigenetics are related to these morphogenetic fields.

01:21:23.000 So it is now very clear.

01:21:24.000 Would you explain that to people?

01:21:26.000 Yeah, sure.

01:21:28.000 Belief was, ever since Darwin, and after some verifications of Darwin that came about, the belief has been that genes are the only way that any hereditary characteristics learning can be transferred to subsequent generations.

01:21:44.000 That has been the belief.

01:21:48.000 Now though, there are phenomena Which show that no something else may very well be involved.

01:21:58.000 One of the striking phenomenon is this phenomenon of morphogenesis, or cell differentiation.

01:22:05.000 We all begin as, you and I both began, as single-celled embryos, right?

01:22:11.000 And then that single cell divides itself, divides itself, making a replica of itself.

01:22:17.000 But it is still true that our toe cells and our brain cells behave very differently.

01:22:22.000 Why?

01:22:22.000 Because the proteins are very different, proteins that are made in those cells.

01:22:27.000 How are proteins made?

01:22:29.000 Proteins are made because of instructions written in the gene, called the genetic code.

01:22:33.000 But the genes of all of our cells are the same.

01:22:36.000 So the explanation is that some genes are activated in the toe, To toe proteins, and other genes are activated in the brain, making the brain proteins.

01:22:47.000 This is why brain cells differ very much in their activity than the toe cells.

01:22:54.000 Okay, so far?

01:22:55.000 Yes.

01:22:56.000 All right, so then this, how does the cell differentiation take place?

01:23:01.000 So, people say there must be programs.

01:23:04.000 Genes of the toe cell is programmed differently than the genes of the brain cells.

01:23:11.000 Okay.

01:23:12.000 Toe cells and brain cells.

01:23:13.000 Toe cells and brain cells.

01:23:14.000 Okay.

01:23:14.000 They have different programs running the genes.

01:23:17.000 Right.

01:23:17.000 But where are these programs, right?

01:23:20.000 So initially the belief was the program must also be in the genes.

01:23:24.000 Now people are seeing that no, the programs for cell differentiation are not in the genes.

01:23:31.000 They are in the epigenetics, outside of the genes.

01:23:35.000 So Schellbrecht originally was suggesting something very similar with his idea of morphogenetic field.

01:23:43.000 And so if you assume that morphogenetic fields are the blueprints of biological form and they are non-local, then there is no difficulty in explaining why the toe cells behave very differently in brain cells.

01:23:58.000 How does the cell know what to do when it is in a different part of the body, if it's in the Toe, then those genes have to be activated which can make protein which can perform in the toe way.

01:24:13.000 If it's in the brain, similarly, those genes will be activated which can make protein which makes it behave the brain way.

01:24:21.000 But how are they doing it all in synchrony?

01:24:24.000 Because of this non-local morphogenetic field that is involved.

01:24:28.000 So, in a way, epigenetics is the first step of verification of Sheldrake's idea.

01:24:34.000 The next step is taken by biologists like Bruce Lipton, who are saying that, well, quantum processes are involved in biology.

01:24:42.000 And so if quantum processes are involved, then our consciousness-based quantum measurement theory is telling us that consciousness must be involved.

01:24:51.000 So in this way, we now can understand the whole gamut of ideas that leads to these things.

01:24:58.000 And finally, to connect up what you were just saying, these instincts, certain learning from the past do get passed on.

01:25:06.000 So the belief is some specific type of learning which involves emotions.

01:25:14.000 My guess is that if the learnings involve emotional, has an emotional aspect, then probably the morphogenetic fields are easier to transfer.

01:25:27.000 Then there's certain innate sort of fears as well.

01:25:30.000 Yeah, involving fears and similar emotions, egotism and sexuality.

01:25:35.000 Even racism, they've shown.

01:25:37.000 Even racism, this kind of thing.

01:25:40.000 But if it is purely cerebral, mental, then it is probably harder to transfer through morphogenetic field.

01:25:49.000 But morphogenetic field transfer is a very, very good idea, and you have to find some explanation of the instincts.

01:25:56.000 It did get transferred, and instincts are universal.

01:25:59.000 So we have a very peculiar situation.

01:26:02.000 Instincts could not possibly be explained by genetics.

01:26:05.000 Many people have written about this.

01:26:07.000 It's very difficult to understand on the basis of genes.

01:26:10.000 So if you bring morphogenetic field to understand the instinct, then you get the idea that, yes, we can today become a nice person, have brain circuits of love, and then a few generations later, via the transference by this morphogenetic field,

01:26:27.000 everybody will begin to have circuits of love in their brain.

01:26:31.000 Well, you bring up a really interesting point because the chemical composition of the mind, all the different serotonin and dopamine and the neurotransmitters and all the different things that are going on inside the mind,

01:26:47.000 alter those in one way or another, positive or negative, and you get profound effects on how the person behaves and thinks and interfaces with their reality.

01:26:56.000 How do you feel personally about all the different pills that people are on and all the different pills that alter consciousness?

01:27:04.000 It seems a very strange time when we are doing so much experimentation on a daily basis, altering The way a person's mind is interfacing with its reality and we see profound effects.

01:27:20.000 A lot of people don't know 90% of school shooters either were on antidepressants, had been on them and were on withdrawal.

01:27:29.000 90% is a big number.

01:27:31.000 It doesn't prove that that's what caused it because a lot of times these people are depressed and guess what?

01:27:37.000 People who are depressed get on antidepressants.

01:27:39.000 It doesn't mean that it caused them to be psychotic or to have Psychotic breaks, but there's something to be studied, for sure.

01:27:48.000 Well, it's very dangerous to put the natural brain under drugs of any kind, especially those drugs which are psychoactive, because you don't even know.

01:27:59.000 The studies are so scanty, you don't even know what the effects are.

01:28:04.000 And how the effects will be, especially the long-term effects.

01:28:08.000 And what we do know is that depression is now the third biggest epidemic disease.

01:28:16.000 Well, it's almost epidemic.

01:28:17.000 But besides heart disease and cancer, depression is the third most common chronic disease, seems like.

01:28:24.000 Why is it?

01:28:25.000 Because depression depends so much on these brain chemicals.

01:28:29.000 And, of course, so much also on how we process our stuff, emotions, thinking.

01:28:35.000 So something is basically going wrong in the new theory, where we talk in terms of chakras, because those are the places where they are very much involved with our emotions.

01:28:48.000 The emotion that is involved in the highest place in our body, the neocortex, emotions that are involved with specifically are what we call satisfaction.

01:28:59.000 So, if the neocortex is played with, certainly it will affect our level of satisfaction.

01:29:08.000 By the same token, people might be using antidepressant to get a pseudo level of satisfaction.

01:29:15.000 You know what happens when you take Prozac.

01:29:17.000 You get sort of, you get temporarily, you get to look at the world as okay.

01:29:24.000 You get that feeling of okay.

01:29:25.000 You're satisfied.

01:29:27.000 So people are using things like that to give them a feeling of satisfaction because it's not there in the absence of taking this drug.

01:29:36.000 So, in this way, but we don't know the consequence of taking Prozac in a good brain, long-term consequences of it.

01:29:44.000 I am terribly, terribly upset about the drug culture because we are getting into stuff The very device that we need that is intimately connected with our consciousness.

01:29:59.000 With our brain, there is no manifest consciousness.

01:30:02.000 We have to recognize that.

01:30:03.000 To play with that vehicle, which gives us the basic way of cognition, basic way of experiencing everything that we know.

01:30:14.000 Conversely though, I have met people that have some sort of an imbalance.

01:30:19.000 They have some sort of a chemical balance in the mind, and I've personally seen people take medication, and it's benefited them greatly.

01:30:27.000 It's improved their...

01:30:28.000 But there's that, but then there's also people that just...

01:30:34.000 They're not living a fulfilling life.

01:30:36.000 They don't have good friendships, relationships, job opportunities.

01:30:39.000 They're not pursuing the career they really wanted to.

01:30:43.000 They have good reason to be depressed.

01:30:44.000 And a lot of times what that depression is, is in fact...

01:30:48.000 The world around you and how your body is perceiving it and the negative energy that you're getting and feeling about it is supposed to motivate you to change.

01:30:57.000 It's supposed to motivate you to move away from it.

01:31:00.000 The negative feelings that you have after any personal altercation with someone.

01:31:03.000 Those are supposed to be like... 0.97

01:31:04.000 That's to let you know, hey, whatever you just did, don't fucking do that anymore. 0.97

01:31:08.000 Okay? 0.93

01:31:09.000 However you interacted with a person that created this terrible wave of bad feelings...

01:31:14.000 It's not satisfying you.

01:31:15.000 It's not satisfying you.

01:31:16.000 And you can't just take a pill...

01:31:18.000 Exactly right.

01:31:19.000 ...to change that.

01:31:19.000 But the way to...

01:31:22.000 There are two kinds of situations involved here.

01:31:25.000 The brain, the device itself may have wrong neurochemicals and therefore we get dissatisfaction, we get depression, or it can be the psychological effect of stuff that's producing the depression.

01:31:37.000 If it is the latter psychological stuff that's producing dissatisfaction, then actually, in a way, it's easier because we can use psychological methods.

01:31:47.000 In fact, we should.

01:31:48.000 I am not in favor of using brain chemicals like Prozac To re-establish the balance if the cause is psychological.

01:31:59.000 If the cause is coming from genetics or family history or clear brain dysfunction, brain imbalance, then it should be treated with With brain chemicals, with medicine.

01:32:15.000 But if it is psychologically caused, it's better to try to improve the satisfaction level of the person.

01:32:22.000 And we can.

01:32:24.000 We can.

01:32:25.000 By bringing emotions in the higher chakra, starting with the heart chakra, where love resides, then expression, which resides in the throat chakra, and then focusing, which resides in the Third eye or in between the two brows,

01:32:41.000 brow chakra, and then of course the crown chakra, the neocortex, which is the seat of satisfaction.

01:32:48.000 So we can improve satisfaction by concentrating, not so much on the lower emotions, which is the lower chakras.

01:32:57.000 There, the emotions that you get are all those fear and sexuality and pride.

01:33:04.000 Sexuality is low?

01:33:05.000 Oh yeah.

01:33:06.000 I thought it was way up there.

01:33:08.000 It's in a sense because it's a doorway to something way out there, doorway to love.

01:33:12.000 So sex is actually a very special one because if used in moderation, sex is actually a very good one because it's the doorway to love.

01:33:20.000 It's one doorway to love.

01:33:21.000 I've always thought that. 0.84

01:33:22.000 I always got pissed off at monks that don't have sex. 0.98

01:33:24.000 Yeah, because look, I mean, sex is an easy way. 0.99

01:33:27.000 This is why we call, you know, effing make love, right? 0.91

01:33:30.000 Fudging.

01:33:31.000 You can do it the eff way or you can do it making love.

01:33:36.000 Right.

01:33:36.000 The point is that the way we use it.

01:33:40.000 So sex is kind of good and bad, both.

01:33:44.000 I mean, all of this actually is good and bad, both.

01:33:46.000 Fear is also good sometimes because it takes us away from danger.

01:33:50.000 Egotism even is good sometimes because it gives us assurance, self-assurance.

01:33:54.000 So used in moderation, the negative emotions are okay.

01:33:58.000 It's when they go out of control, then there are problems.

01:34:03.000 Right.

01:34:04.000 Positive emotions are good all the time.

01:34:06.000 Little or more, you know, love is not going to kill you.

01:34:11.000 Love is only going to elevate you.

01:34:13.000 So you can never have too much love.

01:34:16.000 So in this way, if we learn to concentrate more on these positive emotions, we could actually heal or psychologically caused cases of depression.

01:34:29.000 Psychologically caused cases of depression.

01:34:31.000 That's where you have to differentiate, correct?

01:34:33.000 You have to differentiate between people who are depressed because they're in a bad state in life and people who are depressed because the mind's not working correctly.

01:34:41.000 And there are two.

01:34:42.000 The real issue is the over-diagnosis then, or at least the over-prescription, over-prescribing.

01:34:49.000 What psychiatrists tend to do, because it's easy to treat the brain chemical with a chemical, Psychologists try to get away with just using drugs because the effect will be quicker.

01:35:03.000 Yeah.

01:35:04.000 I think if we use an integration of both approaches, why they do quicker?

01:35:10.000 Because it's, have you ever lived with a mentally ill person? 0.96

01:35:16.000 Many of them.

01:35:16.000 It's very difficult.

01:35:17.000 Yes.

01:35:17.000 It's very difficult.

01:35:18.000 So parents, of course, want immediate cure.

01:35:21.000 So the best strategy probably is to use antidepressants immediately, because that will give a temporary healing.

01:35:30.000 But of course the psychological reasons will be present, so it will come back, it will continue.

01:35:35.000 And then you start the psychological treatment that I'm suggesting, which already people are suggesting I shouldn't take the original credit for it, nothing like that.

01:35:46.000 But dealing with noble emotions, higher emotions, positive emotions, that healing will take time.

01:35:55.000 Prozac can give us time.

01:35:56.000 Prozac can buy us time.

01:35:58.000 So we can use a combination of both conventional and the new medicine, mind-body medicine suggestion.

01:36:06.000 What I suggested is called mind-body medicine because you are trying to heal the brain in balance with the effect of the mind, with the help of the mind.

01:36:15.000 This seems to be a real issue with modern humans, too, in that the life that we live does not really satisfy all of our natural reward systems that we have in place.

01:36:26.000 The hunter-gatherer systems and sitting in a cubicle and all of it.

01:36:32.000 Even monogamy is a struggle for a lot of people for that very reason, is that we have a lot of genetics that are set up from A different time, and they're still in our system.

01:36:43.000 And we have not taught very well.

01:36:45.000 We have not been taught how to manage it, correct?

01:36:47.000 Yeah, we are not being taught how to manage it correctly.

01:36:50.000 That's a very important point.

01:36:52.000 Isn't that one of the most important things you could teach a child is how to manage their thoughts?

01:36:56.000 Yeah, but you know, educational reform is so needed, so needed.

01:37:01.000 For another thing, how do you bring this stuff to a child?

01:37:06.000 You have to use creativity.

01:37:08.000 Obviously, these conditionings are there.

01:37:10.000 The body is conditioned in a certain way since the days of hunter-gatherers.

01:37:13.000 Those conditionings are still present.

01:37:16.000 Mind has moved on to rational mind.

01:37:18.000 Look at the predicament of us learning today.

01:37:21.000 Because some of our conditioning of the body remains the same as the hunter-gatherer.

01:37:27.000 Nothing has changed.

01:37:28.000 But the mind has moved on to purely dealing with mind.

01:37:32.000 Mind does not even deal with the body very much.

01:37:34.000 Well, not only that, the environment has changed radically.

01:37:36.000 So the environment that your physical body is interfacing with has changed radically, and those natural reward systems are not being fed.

01:37:43.000 Not being fed.

01:37:44.000 So we live in a world where we really need A new educational system which will bring these aspects up and use creativity quite extensively, because these things require creative learning.

01:37:58.000 What has to happen is that the context of our thinking, which is thinking without the emotions, this has evolved so much, you know, it becomes very cerebral thinkers, only involving the neocortex.

01:38:11.000 Instead, we can start involving some of what we left behind, some of the emotions that are into it, some of the emotions that we have not dealt with.

01:38:21.000 And we have to reunite, reintegrate how we think about emotions, reintegrate that into our present life system, which is more thinking rationally, which is thinking about thinking itself,

01:38:37.000 not so much thinking emotionally.

01:38:39.000 Is that very frustrating to you as a professor for over 32 years, I believe, right?

01:38:45.000 Is it frustrating to you?

01:38:47.000 Well, it was until I discovered new ways of teaching.

01:38:51.000 I started putting things in an emotional way.

01:38:56.000 Because you can reframe, you know.

01:38:59.000 I mean, you don't have to...

01:39:01.000 When we teach new physics, for example, quantum physics versus classical physics.

01:39:05.000 Classical physics is all cerebral.

01:39:07.000 But quantum physics, because it has that aspect of choice, I choose, therefore something can happen.

01:39:13.000 Already, an emotional component can get in.

01:39:16.000 Because whenever you say, I choose, you'll find that your third chakra, navel chakra, the sort of body ego, is immediately alert.

01:39:26.000 Navel's where your ego's at? 0.99

01:39:27.000 Body ego.

01:39:28.000 Not the mind, the mental ego, but the body ego.

01:39:30.000 So that's why people weird out when you poke their belly button?

01:39:33.000 Like, hey man, get off my ego.

01:39:36.000 Yeah, there is a bit of that.

01:39:40.000 When you feel quite assured of yourself, You find that navel chakra is quite at ease.

01:39:47.000 So you can take a little nice navel massage and be cool with it.

01:39:51.000 But when you are not feeling so assured, butterflies in the stomach.

01:39:55.000 Oh, that's interesting.

01:39:57.000 Very common experience.

01:39:58.000 That's interesting.

01:39:59.000 That's the connection.

01:40:00.000 Where does that whole chakra thing come from?

01:40:03.000 What is that from?

01:40:03.000 No, there was no explanation for a long time.

01:40:07.000 Then, in the new science, we have an explanation.

01:40:09.000 Because in the new science, we introduce these morphogenetic fields as part of reality.

01:40:13.000 What are morphogenetic fields?

01:40:15.000 They are the blueprints of biological organs, right?

01:40:18.000 We went through the cell differentiation, so neocortex has a blueprint, the toes have a different blueprint.

01:40:26.000 So these blueprints is the morphogenetic field.

01:40:31.000 So in quantum physics we say that morphogenetic fields and these organs are then non-locally correlated through consciousness.

01:40:39.000 Consciousness operates on one hand the blueprints, on the other hand the organs.

01:40:44.000 Chakras are those places where the organs are present, the important organs of the body.

01:40:50.000 Look at all the chakras. 1.00

01:40:51.000 Every chakra is the site of a very important organ.

01:40:55.000 Is there a sexual chakra?

01:40:56.000 Yeah.

01:40:57.000 What's that one called? 0.96

01:40:59.000 That one is called Sex Chakra. 0.97

01:41:01.000 It's just called Sex Chakra? 0.99

01:41:02.000 It's called Sex Chakra.

01:41:03.000 Do they work on that one in yoga too?

01:41:05.000 Is that why those girls are wearing those tight pants? 1.00

01:41:07.000 Is that what that's all about?

01:41:08.000 Of course.

01:41:08.000 But yoga, of course, has a Sanskrit name of it.

01:41:11.000 Sanskrit name of it, right.

01:41:13.000 It's very complex.

01:41:14.000 But there is a scientific sort of a correlation between the chakras.

01:41:17.000 Scientific correlation between the sex organs and the corresponding morphogenetic field.

01:41:21.000 Do you practice yoga yourself?

01:41:23.000 Yeah, of course.

01:41:23.000 Every day?

01:41:24.000 It's a good thing.

01:41:25.000 Not every day because of my travel schedule, but most days that I can, yes.

01:41:30.000 And yoga's been around for thousands of years, and some people will just dismiss it as simply stretching.

01:41:36.000 But if you've never actually done it, and I try to tell people, just go to one of those Bikram's yoga classes.

01:41:42.000 Just take one class, or whatever's in your neighborhood.

01:41:44.000 Just take one class and then talk.

01:41:46.000 Because until you do, you really don't know what that feeling is like.

01:41:50.000 That feeling after yoga is You're high, okay?

01:41:53.000 You're high a little bit.

01:41:54.000 You love people.

01:41:55.000 You want to call people and apologize.

01:41:57.000 You want to hug people. 1.00

01:41:58.000 I'm telling you, Brian, you need that shit in your life, son. 1.00

01:42:01.000 You were high, definitely. 1.00

01:42:02.000 Yeah, you're high.

01:42:03.000 What happens is that especially with pranayama, breathing exercises, the energy gets into the crown chakra, satisfaction, right?

01:42:14.000 Or in the higher chakras, very definitely.

01:42:17.000 So crown chakra is connected with, you know, if crown chakra is satisfied, you get these endorphin molecules.

01:42:22.000 That's the byproduct of yoga, of the crown chakra.

01:42:25.000 So endorphin molecules are wonderful.

01:42:30.000 That's the high, actually.

01:42:32.000 So it's a very simple explanation why we get this high and why it should not be trivialized.

01:42:38.000 There are many other ways to get high, but this is one of the best ways because at the same time, you're getting an exercise of the muscles and the joints.

01:42:47.000 Yes, and you're stretching.

01:42:49.000 And in stretching, a lot of people think of stretching as for athletic performance.

01:42:54.000 Stretching is also for a tension release.

01:42:56.000 It's an amazing tension release.

01:42:57.000 And because that tension release now will in the future save you from very debilitating disease like arthritis.

01:43:07.000 Yes, absolutely.

01:43:09.000 So it's a preventive medicine in a way.

01:43:12.000 And flexibility lost is very difficult to regain.

01:43:15.000 Very difficult.

01:43:16.000 But it's not that hard to maintain once you've attained it.

01:43:19.000 Once you have attained it.

01:43:20.000 And the key is never to completely discontinue it.

01:43:23.000 Even if you can do it once a week, it's better than not doing it at all.

01:43:27.000 You know what the problem with yoga is though?

01:43:29.000 Fake yoga people. 0.97

01:43:31.000 Do you know what I'm talking about?

01:43:32.000 You do.

01:43:34.000 People that are just claiming to be spiritual and showing up at yoga classes, but they're really annoying.

01:43:41.000 Do you know those people?

01:43:42.000 You do, right?

01:43:43.000 But the point is, of course, that there will always be fake people.

01:43:47.000 There's always going to be bumper stickers.

01:43:49.000 Always going to be bumper stickers.

01:43:51.000 You cannot avoid it.

01:43:52.000 The important thing is not to throw away the real thing because of the fake.

01:43:55.000 It's very true.

01:43:57.000 In reality, it's a small percentage of the yoga people that are fake. 0.87

01:44:02.000 It's a tiny percentage.

01:44:03.000 And if you think about the general scammers in the population, there's always going to be issues with men and male ego and posturing and there's always going to be similar issues with women and women dealing with other women.

01:44:19.000 I've seen the fake yoga man and I've seen the fake yoga woman. 0.98

01:44:22.000 I'll take the fake yoga woman every day. 1.00

01:44:25.000 The fake yoga man is trying to get laid. 0.98

01:44:27.000 The fake yoga woman is just trying to pretend to be a little more spiritual and non-materialistic than she truly is. 1.00

01:44:35.000 But the fake yoga man is just trying to get laid. 0.93

01:44:37.000 He's annoying. 0.86

01:44:39.000 Well...

01:44:40.000 Again, maybe one out of a hundred, but that's enough.

01:44:43.000 Well, you know, these things, however, I think that some people will get into the New Age movement with the idea of, you know, finding relationship, which in a way, of course, is finding...

01:44:56.000 I love how you just put that, because that's not what they're doing. 0.99

01:44:58.000 They're trying to get some pussy. 1.00

01:44:59.000 There's a big difference between finding a relationship and just trying to get laid. 0.99

01:45:03.000 Sometimes it tends to be just finding a one-night stand, which is, of course, your language is quite accurate, I must say.

01:45:11.000 Well, I think they're trying to appear desirable.

01:45:15.000 And one of the ways to appear desirable to women is to be spiritual. 1.00

01:45:21.000 Yes, that's a tricky one.

01:45:23.000 That is all true.

01:45:24.000 And I'm sure that as quantum physics makes more inroads, there will be these quantum fakers.

01:45:32.000 And I'm not trying to focus entirely on the negative, but I'm trying to address what I know people in the general public, the issues that they have with folks that claim to be spiritual.

01:45:43.000 It's like you run into a fake yoga person.

01:45:46.000 You're like, oh my god.

01:45:47.000 You know, the typically unique guy with his beads and his hemp sandals. 0.97

01:45:52.000 And you just want to punch him, right? 0.71

01:45:54.000 You know what I'm talking about? 0.87

01:45:55.000 But you know, you have to be patient.

01:45:58.000 Looking at the other side.

01:45:59.000 I'll tell you a story.

01:46:00.000 Okay.

01:46:01.000 This is a typical Hinduism teaching story. 0.98

01:46:05.000 Okay.

01:46:06.000 So a thief comes to the master, spiritual master.

01:46:13.000 At the end of the night, John Master, of course, says, yeah, stay with me, no problem.

01:46:18.000 So the thief is stealing this stuff of the whole thing.

01:46:22.000 So the Master opens the eyes and says, do you remember, did you remember to take everything?

01:46:28.000 Because, you know, I really don't need that stuff over there either, so you can take that too.

01:46:33.000 So the thief is caught, but he's very surprised.

01:46:36.000 The master is not throwing him in jail or calling the police or anything like that.

01:46:41.000 So he's become a little curious.

01:46:44.000 So he lays things down.

01:46:45.000 Why aren't you not angry?

01:46:47.000 Because I'm telling your stuff.

01:46:49.000 The master says, oh, well, most of this stuff, look, I don't really need it.

01:46:54.000 I still have attachments, so I keep them.

01:46:56.000 So if you are taking them, it's okay.

01:46:59.000 So the thief becomes a little more curious.

01:47:02.000 He says, well, since you don't mind me stealing it any time, why should I have to steal it at the end of the night?

01:47:09.000 Let me stay with you for a few days, just watching your methods and what you do.

01:47:13.000 Then I'll take them away at the end of the week.

01:47:16.000 Master says, yeah, fine, just stay with me.

01:47:18.000 So the thief stays for a few days.

01:47:24.000 When he looks at the Master and tries to do some of the stuff, he starts changing.

01:47:31.000 By faking, initially he thought he'll just fake the Master because then he'll pick up the faking and then his stealing capacity will increase many-fold because he will impress people by being a spiritual man.

01:47:43.000 Right.

01:47:44.000 People will have, he will have more access to more houses and he will be able to steal more.

01:47:48.000 That was the original idea.

01:47:50.000 This is why he wanted to watch the Master.

01:47:53.000 But then as he did things, meditate and sit and talk to people, after even a few days, he started changing.

01:48:04.000 So he can begin with a fake and end up with something else.

01:48:10.000 And of course, Master knew it all the time.

01:48:13.000 So at the end of the seven days, Master says, okay, now you take this stuff and leave.

01:48:17.000 Why are you prolonging your stay?

01:48:19.000 And the fellow falls on the feet.

01:48:23.000 That's an Indian idiom of saying surrender, says that.

01:48:26.000 No, I want to learn what makes a you.

01:48:29.000 I'm not interested in stealing the small stuff anymore.

01:48:32.000 I want to steal the stuff that you are made of.

01:48:34.000 So, you see, the way we can make even use of this fake is amazing, by being patient with the people who are faking and just allowing them in the process.

01:48:48.000 Because although the initial intention is superficial, but as you do them, Consumption itself, consuming this very wonderful stuff, very wonderful behavior,

01:49:04.000 will begin to give the idea, oh, maybe I can become a producer.

01:49:09.000 These energies that I fake by imitating, if I actualize them, then they will actually produce changes in me that are profound.

01:49:22.000 We should open the gate for that, other than closing it by saying, oh, you are just a fake.

01:49:30.000 You know, be a little more tolerant about them.

01:49:33.000 So I encourage people using the quantum language, although they have no idea what they are talking about.

01:49:40.000 But then, you know, you explain it one time and they will become a little curious and initially their curiosity will be, oh, I can pick up a little more and impress people a little more.

01:49:49.000 But they become a little more curious, a little more curious.

01:49:52.000 One day they will ask, well, can I actually start doing this stuff and really be creative?

01:50:00.000 Wow.

01:50:01.000 Didn't Feynman once said, if you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics?

01:50:06.000 Isn't that what Feynman said?

01:50:08.000 Well, one of them.

01:50:10.000 There are many, many sayings.

01:50:12.000 This could come from Niels Bohr, who said that if you thought you understood quantum physics, Then probably you didn't understand it at all.

01:50:21.000 So, you know, there were many, many, many sayings about quantum physics.

01:50:25.000 Feynman said something like, nobody understands quantum physics once upon a time.

01:50:29.000 He did say something like that.

01:50:31.000 So, why do people say something like that?

01:50:34.000 Because quantum physics, at some level, becomes so incredibly mysterious.

01:50:41.000 That in the affairs of matter, consciousness can be involved.

01:50:46.000 This is just such an inherent mystery.

01:50:48.000 Many people are very hard put to accept this kind of thing.

01:50:54.000 So they would rather have nobody understand quantum mechanics than accept that consciousness is needed to understand quantum mechanics.

01:51:04.000 So these are the barriers of new thinking coming into the field of science.

01:51:09.000 But you know what?

01:51:11.000 Because experimentally, we are verifying the idea of non-local consciousness.

01:51:16.000 We are verifying the idea that there really is a non-local connection between people, or the way we cognize knowledge Namely consciousness.

01:51:27.000 He's actually non-local.

01:51:29.000 That verification will go a long way in changing the paradigm, changing the worldview.

01:51:35.000 How did yoga get discovered?

01:51:38.000 How did they figure out that these poses and stretches could open up your mind and And change your consciousness.

01:51:44.000 What is the history behind that?

01:51:46.000 Well, the original, if you read Patanjali's Yoga Sutra, he just introduces Sato Yoga as a way of finding a comfortable place to meditate.

01:51:58.000 Originally, the idea was just to sit comfortably, and in order to sit comfortably in meditation for a long period of time, stretching helps.

01:52:07.000 And then they discovered one very wonderful thing as people meditated.

01:52:13.000 The main job of meditation, they found, is to create gap between thoughts.

01:52:20.000 You slow down your mental process.

01:52:23.000 So once they discovered that the idea of slowing down the mental process helps enormously our creativity, our spirituality, Once they found that out, then they realized the next wonderful thing is that isn't yoga also a way of slowing down the body?

01:52:43.000 Isn't pranayama a way of slowing down the breaths and therefore all the organs?

01:52:47.000 So the interest grew that yoga itself, photoyoga itself, It's not just stretching or just working on the joints.

01:52:57.000 It's also a way to slow down the body and therefore the mind.

01:53:03.000 It's indirectly slowing down the mind because if the body is slow, mind will also be slow.

01:53:08.000 By focusing on the poses and your breath and your intake.

01:53:11.000 And doing it all slowly.

01:53:12.000 Not so much like Bikram Yoga, because that's a fast yoga.

01:53:15.000 But in the original way that yoga was done, that's quite slow.

01:53:19.000 The slow yoga is actually even better than the fast yoga.

01:53:23.000 Not that the fast yoga loses everything of yoga.

01:53:25.000 Fast yoga is also good.

01:53:28.000 Slow yoga is even better because it slows down the body, slows down the mind, slows down the vital energies, slows down our emotions.

01:53:38.000 It gives you a lot of breath between your fast, fast, fast, go, go, go mind.

01:53:43.000 Especially important for developing creativity because creativity is enormously dependent on that unconscious process in doing nothing.

01:53:52.000 Do and be.

01:53:54.000 So if we do yoga regularly, we really don't even need meditation regularly.

01:54:01.000 We can just do yoga and get the benefit of the mind from yoga alone.

01:54:06.000 That goes a long way for our creativity.

01:54:10.000 There's a lot of ancient texts that connect yoga with cannabis use.

01:54:15.000 Yoga with hashish use and even eating cannabis.

01:54:21.000 I'm not familiar with this one.

01:54:22.000 You're not familiar with it? 0.96

01:54:23.000 Oh, look at you, you sly devil with that smile on your face. 0.85

01:54:27.000 Someone's got a reputation to maintain. 0.97

01:54:30.000 No, I don't really.

01:54:33.000 Not from that point of view.

01:54:34.000 Do you have any experience at all in psychedelic alkaloids?

01:54:39.000 I do a little less, certainly.

01:54:43.000 It's in this state.

01:54:45.000 It's not against the law.

01:54:47.000 Oh, you mean marijuana, yes.

01:54:48.000 Very mild one.

01:54:50.000 I was going to ask you about...

01:54:51.000 No, no, it's not so mild.

01:54:53.000 Oh, yeah, you're telling me.

01:54:55.000 One time I got what is called sansanim or something.

01:54:58.000 Sensimilia? 0.96

01:54:59.000 Oh, look at you, old school devil. 0.99

01:55:01.000 Exactly.

01:55:02.000 So a friend of mine comes from Washington with this important stuff.

01:55:07.000 Oh, those dudes in Washington don't play games. 1.00

01:55:09.000 Exactly.

01:55:10.000 Seattle's in the house.

01:55:11.000 So we take this stuff with him and we put it in cookies, right?

01:55:18.000 Oh, yeah.

01:55:19.000 And it doesn't take effect for, you know, 15 minutes, 20 minutes.

01:55:24.000 Hour and 20 minutes.

01:55:24.000 Nothing is happening.

01:55:25.000 So we said, well, let's go to dinner.

01:55:27.000 This is a classic story.

01:55:29.000 It is indeed.

01:55:31.000 So we go to dinner and all of a sudden I'm just eating my first course.

01:55:36.000 I'm looking at the lights of the city from a window and it starts exploding.

01:55:45.000 It's wonderful.

01:55:47.000 So my wife, who was the third person on the table, she also starts feeling something and she has to go to the bathroom.

01:55:57.000 So she goes and the way back from the bathroom, she passes out.

01:56:02.000 Whoa! 0.71

01:56:03.000 So, I have to go and claim that, okay, this is my woman, so my responsibility, I will take her home. 1.00

01:56:13.000 You've got to go claim her! 1.00

01:56:15.000 I had to.

01:56:16.000 Who's kids in aisle five?

01:56:18.000 She didn't eat anything, so probably she got weak and therefore passed out.

01:56:22.000 Don't pay any attention to her.

01:56:23.000 I'll take care of it.

01:56:24.000 And this friend, oh, people from Washington, you have to watch them.

01:56:29.000 This friend doesn't know me, doesn't know her, just walks away completely innocently.

01:56:37.000 Doesn't know any of us.

01:56:38.000 It just left you guys there?

01:56:39.000 It just left us guys there. 1.00

01:56:40.000 Wow, what an asshole that guy is. 1.00

01:56:42.000 Eventually he caught up and apologized. 1.00

01:56:45.000 Oh, eventually.

01:56:46.000 Did he know that you guys had taken pot cookies?

01:56:49.000 What was it?

01:56:49.000 A cookie or a brownie?

01:56:50.000 What was it?

01:56:50.000 He was taking with us.

01:56:52.000 Oh, so he was probably high.

01:56:53.000 He thought you were all going to go to jail.

01:56:54.000 He was also high, but he didn't want to get caught up in that difficult situation.

01:56:59.000 In the future, and for folks who have never heard me say this before, even though I've said it a million times, when you eat cannabis, it has a completely different psychoactive effect when you eat it.

01:57:07.000 You're telling me.

01:57:08.000 Yeah.

01:57:11.000 When cannabis is processed by the liver, it produces something called 11-hydroxy metabolite, which is approximately four to five times more psychoactive than THC. So that's why it has that insane effect.

01:57:24.000 It's not just insane, it's an alien effect that you don't get when you smoke pot.

01:57:28.000 Eating it is a very, very different experience, and you could easily overdo it.

01:57:33.000 Maybe your wife just got so hot, she's like, I'm just going to pretend to be blacked out, and it's way less stressful than walking around.

01:57:39.000 Well, she did say that she was taking it a little bit.

01:57:42.000 She was!

01:57:45.000 But the point is that she did have to lie down.

01:57:49.000 I mean, the stuff had an enormous effect.

01:57:51.000 Mine too.

01:57:52.000 I mean, I was clearly under it.

01:57:54.000 And then driving under it, you know, this is why I don't really like the idea of legalizing marijuana in a sand, because driving with marijuana, not marijuana, at least the oral kind, It's very, very difficult.

01:58:10.000 That driving experience was the most difficult half hour in my entire life.

01:58:15.000 I've never had that.

01:58:17.000 It's impossible to gauge time, how time is going.

01:58:22.000 The slow time gets fast.

01:58:28.000 Did it change your ideas of the quantum world?

01:58:32.000 Well, I did connect it to quantum world.

01:58:34.000 The possibilities are impossible!

01:58:39.000 This was before the discoveries of quantum physics that I went through.

01:58:44.000 Oh really?

01:58:44.000 This is pre-quantum physics?

01:58:46.000 This is my pre-quantum era.

01:58:48.000 This is like early 80s.

01:58:50.000 So in the early 80s, you were a standard nuclear theorist, right?

01:58:54.000 I was struggling.

01:58:55.000 I already came out a bit, but I had not found, I had not discovered the new possibilities of quantum physics yet.

01:59:01.000 Yeah, before you discovered all this stuff, you weren't really a happy guy, were you?

01:59:05.000 No, I was a very unhappy guy.

01:59:07.000 In fact, you know, my change came only after I realized it.

01:59:12.000 One day I was at a conference on nuclear physics, giving a paper, erudite paper, of course, nothing to do with everyday life, and I give this paper with gusto.

01:59:22.000 Nobody appreciates it, at least so I thought.

01:59:24.000 And I think that the other guys, although they are talking about equally esoteric nonsense, but they are much more appreciated by the audience and at the party especially, by the women, the fair sex.

01:59:38.000 Women like them better. 1.00

01:59:40.000 You got jealous.

01:59:41.000 I'm jealous.

01:59:42.000 I'm just jealous, jealous, jealous and inadequate.

01:59:44.000 And that way, the whole party, the whole evening at 1 o'clock, I get disgusted with myself because all my Tums are gone.

01:59:53.000 Tums?

01:59:54.000 Digestive pills, heartburn pills.

01:59:57.000 You eat a lot of Tums?

01:59:58.000 Well, in those days, yes.

02:00:00.000 Back then.

02:00:00.000 You were upset.

02:00:02.000 I'm upset.

02:00:02.000 So I go outside.

02:00:04.000 This is on the Monterey Bay, the place.

02:00:09.000 The hotel is called Asilomar.

02:00:11.000 And I have this ocean breeze hit my face and I thought, why do I live this way, this unhappy way?

02:00:18.000 So I literally, I literally, avowedly was the practitioner of happy physics since then.

02:00:26.000 Of course, I didn't find it immediately, the way to be happy doing physics, but eventually I found it.

02:00:32.000 It's consciousness physics, it's happy physics.

02:00:36.000 Happiest use of physics that I've ever.

02:00:45.000 I think it's an intuitive thought to change one's life.

02:00:49.000 This is the kind of thing that happens all of a sudden and you are not the same anymore.

02:00:54.000 But you weren't like Descartes was visited by an angel in his dreams.

02:00:58.000 You know what I'm saying? 1.00

02:00:59.000 Your change is like, I just went outside and I'm like, fuck this. 1.00

02:01:03.000 Were you on mushrooms? 1.00

02:01:04.000 No, nothing.

02:01:06.000 No drugs, nothing.

02:01:07.000 It was the moment that the drug...

02:01:08.000 It's a moment of intuition.

02:01:10.000 A moment of knowing yourself because I was ready to look at myself.

02:01:15.000 You were ready to look at yourself because before you weren't.

02:01:18.000 Before it didn't matter to me that the physics that I do has nothing to say about the life that I live.

02:01:25.000 And all of a sudden I wanted to really live a meaningful life.

02:01:29.000 I wanted to do something that has meaning, not just ways to get ahead in my profession.

02:01:35.000 So I wanted to integrate.

02:01:37.000 I wanted to integrate my professional life with my daily life.

02:01:40.000 How to love my wife, how to love children, how to get along with friends better.

02:01:44.000 You know, live life.

02:01:46.000 Not just do physics formulas and publish papers and get promotions in the department.

02:01:52.000 Wow.

02:01:53.000 So it was just one moment, you just had enough, and that's when you went into the woo-woo world of quantum mechanics.

02:01:58.000 Well, not immediately.

02:02:00.000 Not immediately.

02:02:00.000 Slowly.

02:02:01.000 Slowly, and a lot of struggle, a lot of experimentation, a lot of steps in between.

02:02:07.000 It took a lot of time, too.

02:02:08.000 This was 1973. My discovery came in 1985. So 12 years of quite a risky and adventurous past, but rewards came.

02:02:22.000 Now, there's another thing that you said that I read that I found completely fascinating is that you don't believe in free will.

02:02:31.000 Well, I do and I don't.

02:02:33.000 You do and you don't.

02:02:34.000 I do in the sense that, yes, creativity has a component of free will.

02:02:40.000 It starts with the free will of the ego.

02:02:42.000 Ego has one free will, which is a very crucial element of creativity, which is that at some point the ego realizes that it really does not know.

02:02:56.000 And therefore, start saying no to all conditioning.

02:03:00.000 No to condition meanings, no to condition habits, no to condition patterns, no to condition behavior.

02:03:06.000 And that's when we make room.

02:03:08.000 That's when we have an open mind.

02:03:10.000 We make room for learning new stuff.

02:03:13.000 And that's when creativity can come to us.

02:03:16.000 Before then, we start really thinking that we know it all with our reservoir of knowledge.

02:03:23.000 Because I have a lot of expertise, therefore I know.

02:03:27.000 But expertise don't bring us knowledge.

02:03:30.000 Expertise just bring us a very special fraction of knowledge that is useful To solve certain problems with given context.

02:03:40.000 Because the context is known, therefore the expertise always says, well, somewhere in my expertise there is an answer.

02:03:47.000 And you develop a knack, a habit of finding that answer fairly quickly.

02:03:51.000 And people admire that, of course.

02:03:54.000 You go ahead in your society because you are a very efficient problem solver.

02:04:01.000 But the thing that happens with open mind is that you realize that real-life problems are not given within contexts.

02:04:10.000 The contexts are not given to you.

02:04:12.000 You have to discover not only the new meaning, but also the new context of it.

02:04:17.000 And this is what makes real-life problems very difficult.

02:04:21.000 We were touching about this earlier.

02:04:24.000 We don't learn that stuff.

02:04:25.000 You know, this hunter-gatherer sitting in me, how to integrate that with the abstract thinker of today, this is not given in any book.

02:04:34.000 This is not given within given context.

02:04:36.000 So, how do you get into this kind of thing?

02:04:39.000 You have to use creativity.

02:04:40.000 You have to become open first, that, okay, with this rational mind, which has only learned about abstract thinking, you are not going to Integrate my emotions of the hunter-gatherer days with the one that is today who is all the suppressed emotions.

02:04:54.000 We're not going to integrate.

02:04:56.000 We have to open up.

02:04:57.000 We have to recognize our ignorance completely and invite creativity in our life.

02:05:03.000 So that idea, that idea was the most important idea probably that eventually, you know, changed me as a person.

02:05:12.000 Wow.

02:05:13.000 So the idea that So in saying, I'm sorry, this is a hard way to wrap your head around it, but in saying that you have free will and you don't have free will at the same time.

02:05:28.000 So this is the free will.

02:05:30.000 This is the free will.

02:05:32.000 But in other things, what is our free will?

02:05:35.000 We have choices.

02:05:36.000 What flavor of ice cream would you like?

02:05:39.000 Well, left or right, good or bad, cruel or kind.

02:05:42.000 But all on the basis of what you know already.

02:05:44.000 Right.

02:05:44.000 Well, basis of what you know and what you've learned and what we admire is someone who's learned and someone who evolves.

02:05:51.000 Exactly.

02:05:51.000 So on the basis of the known, all the answers are conditioned among the conditioned spectrum of knowledge.

02:05:58.000 And that's really not, you know, it's a sort of freedom, but it's nothing to crow about.

02:06:05.000 It's freedom.

02:06:06.000 I mean, nobody would give up that freedom if a tyrant comes and says that, no, you don't have the choice to choose the flavor of ice cream, even.

02:06:15.000 You have to take only one flavor.

02:06:18.000 Of course, all of us would object, and immediately we know we don't want that.

02:06:22.000 We become rebellions.

02:06:23.000 But it's at a different order of magnitude than what is needed to discover really new stuff.

02:06:33.000 That freedom.

02:06:34.000 That freedom which takes us to the really new.

02:06:36.000 And there, the ego's free will is not very helpful.

02:06:40.000 We have to open up to what in spiritual tradition is called God's will.

02:06:44.000 Is that God separate from us?

02:06:46.000 No.

02:06:47.000 It's also Our will, in some sense, but coming from a higher consciousness, that's the difference, coming from that non-local consciousness.

02:06:55.000 So real freedom of choice is beyond ego's free will to that free will that enables me to choose a creative answer.

02:07:05.000 Creativity.

02:07:07.000 Whoa.

02:07:08.000 Okay.

02:07:09.000 So, real free will only exists sort of in the base animalistic world.

02:07:17.000 And at the higher levels of consciousness, free will doesn't exist because you're connected to the collective consciousness.

02:07:25.000 Nope.

02:07:26.000 No.

02:07:26.000 Still a little bit inaccurate.

02:07:28.000 There is some accuracy in it.

02:07:30.000 It does not exist necessarily also in the emotional, non-rational experiences of the pre-rational either.

02:07:43.000 It comes from the intuition, the next level.

02:07:48.000 So it really is a higher function, except you're right in one sense.

02:07:53.000 If we go outside of the rational, rational is our biggest enemy in the sense of free will in the higher sense.

02:08:02.000 Rational is a bigger enemy of intuition than our emotions.

02:08:07.000 Rationality is?

02:08:08.000 So the idea that you can rationalize any evil or abusive behavior if you're the head of a corporation because it makes money for your...

02:08:16.000 Right.

02:08:17.000 That rationalization is our biggest enemy.

02:08:19.000 Even bigger than emotions in the sense, if you include emotions, to include positive emotions.

02:08:25.000 Positive emotions are very helpful to intuition.

02:08:29.000 So how would you describe it?

02:08:30.000 That rational thinking is the biggest enemy of what?

02:08:32.000 Well, rational thinking can also be a friend.

02:08:34.000 I don't want to sound overly against...

02:08:36.000 No, I understand what you're saying.

02:08:37.000 But rational emotion can be, because you can rationalize away everything.

02:08:41.000 You mean rationalization more than you mean rational thinking.

02:08:45.000 Right, right.

02:08:45.000 Rational thinking is good, generally.

02:08:47.000 But we don't do it...

02:08:49.000 Only with that we can justify, like today's scientific materialists.

02:08:53.000 They justify everything, all of their, even the worldview itself, right?

02:09:00.000 They rationalize away.

02:09:01.000 No, there could not be spirituality.

02:09:03.000 No, there could not be God, because everything has to be made of matter.

02:09:06.000 What else can it be?

02:09:07.000 That's their argument.

02:09:09.000 Basic argument just boils down to this.

02:09:11.000 What else can it be?

02:09:13.000 There is only this matter space, time, matter, motion, world.

02:09:17.000 There's nothing else.

02:09:18.000 If you start with an assumption like that, that's what closes you completely.

02:09:23.000 That's not freedom anymore.

02:09:24.000 You lose freedom because you are not able to suspend your belief system.

02:09:29.000 If you suspend your belief system, many other experiences immediately find meaning.

02:09:35.000 But this kind of rationality precludes emotions, precludes intuition, There's a problem with the definition, the word rational, like you're being irrational, you're not being, have some rational thinking, and then rationalizing, which is a negative,

02:09:51.000 you know, rationalizing, it's a very strange.

02:09:53.000 But it's the same idea, taking it too far.

02:09:56.000 When you say rationalize, what we are really saying is that you are using rational thinking to where it does not belong.

02:10:03.000 That's rationalizing.

02:10:05.000 We rationalize a way where intuition belongs.

02:10:08.000 We rationalize a way where emotions belong.

02:10:10.000 So instead, the new science, what the new science does, it admits it's a science of experience, not just sensory experience that materialists agree with.

02:10:21.000 The new science says that our emotions, our thinking, and our intuition, all three are valid ways of knowing, in addition to sensing.

02:10:36.000 So we have four valid ways of knowing, physical, vital, mental, and supramental, the intuition.

02:10:43.000 And when we employ all four ways of knowing, we go beyond the rational being.

02:10:48.000 In the rational being, we go only the physical way of knowing and the mental, rational, logical way of knowing.

02:10:56.000 Michael Shermer has a great point. 0.98

02:10:58.000 A great quote, rather, that the only thing smart people are better at is rationalizing their dumb ideas.

02:11:05.000 That's a very funny thing when it comes to certain focuses, certain things that people do rationalize, whether it's environmental disasters or doing things in other countries that are unethical or immoral.

02:11:22.000 The ability to rationalize, and especially the ability to rationalize on a large scale, like as a corporation, It's a key problem with the civilization, isn't it?

02:11:32.000 Key problem.

02:11:33.000 And how to get out of it?

02:11:35.000 I have a whole method of getting out of it.

02:11:37.000 How do we do it?

02:11:37.000 I call it spiritual economics.

02:11:40.000 The same idea like the earlier story that I told you, the thief and the wise person.

02:11:46.000 If we use that idea, if we feed people the spiritual stuff, Uh-huh.

02:11:52.000 As consumer good.

02:11:53.000 Right.

02:11:54.000 Suppose you could go out in the market and buy happiness in the company of a sage whose very being makes you happy.

02:12:01.000 I've met such people.

02:12:03.000 Who?

02:12:03.000 Where are they at?

02:12:04.000 Can I meet them?

02:12:04.000 What about me?

02:12:05.000 Do I make you happy?

02:12:07.000 We can meet them, but it's a little bit difficult because they don't appear in everyday marketplace.

02:12:12.000 Not yet.

02:12:13.000 No, no, not yet.

02:12:14.000 They're like Steven Greer's people.

02:12:16.000 Not yet, not yet.

02:12:17.000 But we could manufacture these people.

02:12:19.000 I think we now have the key.

02:12:21.000 We know about creativity so much today that if people are investing, I think we really can inspire Lot of very capable people in a lifestyle which will generate happy people.

02:12:39.000 Well, let me tell you something what we're doing because this is not something we ever set out to do.

02:12:43.000 When Brian and I started this podcast three years ago, it was just on a laptop in my office and we were just trying to have some fun.

02:12:49.000 We were just doing it just to be silly.

02:12:51.000 We had done previous things like that, webcasts where we had done them in hotel rooms and when we were on the road doing stand-up.

02:13:00.000 Over the course of three years, one of the things that's happened is people have told us that what they've gotten in this podcast, in this communication, is they've gotten an ability to interact or at least hear people interact that are like no one they know.

02:13:16.000 So they're changing the way they think about life.

02:13:20.000 They're seeing that there's other ways to look at things.

02:13:23.000 And in fact, a lot of your reality is shaped by the way you choose to view the world and that you can morph that and change that.

02:13:31.000 And this podcast, and again, we're not taking credit for it because I didn't know it was going to happen, has had an amazingly profound effect on people.

02:13:39.000 Whereas I've talked to Literally hundreds of people that say the podcast changed their life, and that once they started listening, they started eating healthy, they started exercising, they feel better, they think about things better, they try not to be a shitty person, they try to be positive, and they understand and feel the effect of this positive thinking.

02:13:58.000 I agree with you, and again, we're not taking credit for this.

02:14:02.000 This is something that just happened on its own.

02:14:04.000 Is it a side effect of allowing people into your life and into your way of thinking?

02:14:09.000 That openness.

02:14:10.000 Yes.

02:14:11.000 That openness.

02:14:12.000 That openness that says that, well, okay, we have this, have it.

02:14:15.000 Yes.

02:14:16.000 And let's open it up even though it's only for a couple of hours.

02:14:19.000 Yes.

02:14:19.000 Which reminds me that I should really make a call to my wife because I told her 5.30.

02:14:24.000 Yeah, we're going to wrap this thing up anyway.

02:14:26.000 It's 5.30.

02:14:27.000 I don't want to wear you out.

02:14:28.000 Listen, this is a beautiful conversation.

02:14:31.000 Fascinating.

02:14:32.000 You're a very, really, really interesting and intelligent guy and it's hard to follow.

02:14:39.000 I think a lot of people are going to listen to this podcast three or four times.

02:14:42.000 I think you did good.

02:14:44.000 Thank you.

02:14:44.000 Because how these things are actually depends a lot on the language you use.

02:14:52.000 And it is a fact that we have a habit of using languages like mind and consciousness in a synonymous way.

02:14:59.000 Yes.

02:15:01.000 Be done that way.

02:15:02.000 What happens then is we don't understand each other anymore.

02:15:05.000 So here you are, not so much conversant with the new science vocabulary, and here I am, without teaching you any vocabulary, just get right into the discussion, and we had a dissonance of words for a while.

02:15:20.000 I don't even think it was a dissonance, quite honestly.

02:15:22.000 I think I was just trying to really...

02:15:25.000 I was trying to play the part of the person that is listening to this, For the first time, I'm aware of these concepts, I'm aware of your work, and I really do appreciate you coming on the podcast to talk about it.

02:15:37.000 But even for someone like me, who's read at least a half a dozen books on this stuff, it's hard to wrap your head around.

02:15:44.000 It is hard.

02:15:45.000 And it is also simple.

02:15:47.000 I often say that quantum physics is simpler than Newtonian physics.

02:15:50.000 Because Newtonian physics, you get very quickly the idea that, you know, science can solve everything.

02:15:56.000 And in quantum physics, because the choice is brought into four from the beginning, immediately start relating that, hey, I know about choice, I know about, you know, this stuff is, science is giving us this stuff.

02:16:11.000 Immediately, mind mellows a little, and the science becomes more humanistic.

02:16:16.000 The last thing I wanted to ask you about, I can't let you go without this.

02:16:19.000 Are you familiar with Dr. James Gates?

02:16:22.000 No.

02:16:23.000 He's a theoretical physicist and professor of physics at the University of Maryland with another guy named John.

02:16:31.000 He's the John S. Toll professor of physics at the University of Maryland.

02:16:36.000 He found self-correcting computer code in the equations of string theory.

02:16:43.000 I don't know if you've heard about this.

02:16:46.000 It was a really interesting Again, really hard to follow conversation that he had with Neil deGrasse Tyson, who we've had on the show, and I talked to Neil about it, and even he was trying to wrap his head around what this meant.

02:17:02.000 But they found double and even self-dual linear binary code error correcting block code, which was first invented by Claude Shannon in the 1940s,

02:17:17.000 has been discovered embedded within the equations of superstring theory.

02:17:21.000 You're laughing at this.

02:17:22.000 It's almost like you knew.

02:17:24.000 I'm laughing because here we are talking mainly about quantum physics and consciousness, and here you go into such a sophisticated discussion of something that is remotely connected with quantum physics, of course, you know, string theory.

02:17:37.000 But, you know, yeah, it could very well be, but I'll tell you something.

02:17:41.000 The reason I lost interest in such details is very simple.

02:17:47.000 String theory is a good example of what The idea that people propose when they say the word pseudoscience.

02:17:54.000 Pseudoscience.

02:17:54.000 Pseudoscience is that where theory and experiment are both not visible aspects.

02:18:01.000 It's just theory.

02:18:03.000 This is a good example of just theory because string theory can never be verified in our experience.

02:18:09.000 We just cannot do it.

02:18:10.000 It's talking about too high an energy that we cannot simulate in the laboratory nor in the High-energy cosmology.

02:18:21.000 So in other words, it's really very, very, very, very, very, very far out.

02:18:26.000 So, you know, here we are at once, this rational culture that we call scientific materialism doesn't hesitate to talk about string theory, which is highly abstract mathematical theory.

02:18:40.000 Not that it's not interesting.

02:18:42.000 As a mind game, certainly it's interesting.

02:18:45.000 And then they object Things like telepathy, which is very much human, where the objection, of course, is that it may not be quite apropos science because there may not be any good theory, there may not be any good data.

02:19:00.000 So it's a very strange thing.

02:19:02.000 We do, because it has mathematics in it, We call science which cannot ever be verified quite doable science.

02:19:12.000 How can it be science if it's not verified but yet it's mathematic?

02:19:16.000 If it's mathematic...

02:19:16.000 That's what I'm saying.

02:19:17.000 You agree with me.

02:19:19.000 But see, this is what puzzles me, that the culture is so obtuse that they will never call...

02:19:27.000 There are many concepts like that, you know, which, because of their mathematical nature, they're accepted part of science, because they're mathematical, because mathematics is so vital it is felt.

02:19:41.000 So you're not interested in this because there's literally no way to know whether it's correct or whether it's just daydreaming.

02:19:47.000 Right.

02:19:48.000 What a crazy way to make a living, these guys.

02:19:50.000 I'm vaguely interested because of one thing.

02:19:52.000 There is something very good about think theory because it does enable us to connect gravity to quantum physics.

02:19:59.000 That problem is not to be underestimated.

02:20:03.000 But I don't want the solution to come in the form of a theory that can never be verified.

02:20:08.000 So people should recognize that science has two prongs.

02:20:12.000 In fact, in my judgment, three.

02:20:15.000 Theory, verification, experiment, and then technology.

02:20:19.000 There's never going to be any technological application of something like string theory.

02:20:25.000 Never?

02:20:25.000 Never.

02:20:26.000 It's just too abstract taking place in places that are so remote from the human experience that technological breakthroughs on the face of it is, you know,

02:20:42.000 at least for high energy physics you could always give a technological justification for in the form of weapons technology.

02:20:50.000 Not particularly good, but weapons technology at least is a feasible offshoot of energy physics.

02:20:57.000 But these kind of stuff, you know, it's just a bit too far for my taste.

02:21:06.000 We should concentrate instead of problems which can immediately be addressed, problems that has impact on who we are, what we are, what we are doing here, give us answers to real-life questions like how to run our life, how to run our society, how to run our economy.

02:21:22.000 And we have the science at hand.

02:21:25.000 That's what the new science is trying to do.

02:21:28.000 Instead, we have too much emphasis on things that have Not much to do with us, the human condition.

02:21:40.000 Super strength theory.

02:21:41.000 Like super strength theory.

02:21:43.000 Yeah, I've never been able to understand that and I'm glad that you couldn't understand it either or that it can't be understood or that at least it can't be verified.

02:21:50.000 It doesn't need to be understood because it can't be verified.

02:21:55.000 That's my simple proposition.

02:21:57.000 Who needs to understand things, clutter up your brain for things which has no consequence in my life and cannot even be verified and can never be built, never give rise to any technology that I can relate to. 0.95

02:22:10.000 Where there's so much crazy shit to concentrate on that is actually real. 0.97

02:22:13.000 Right on. 0.98

02:22:14.000 Thank you, sir.

02:22:15.000 It's been an honor to talk to you.

02:22:16.000 I really, truly appreciate it.

02:22:18.000 What books do you have out that you recommend that people could pick up to learn more about some of your work?

02:22:26.000 Well, the basic quantum physics stuff is best done in a book called The Self-Ever Universe.

02:22:32.000 God is Not Dead is another one.

02:22:33.000 God is Not Dead is another one.

02:22:35.000 And how quantum activism can save civilization has some of the consequences of this theory to society.

02:22:42.000 Do you have a Twitter page?

02:22:43.000 Yeah, of course.

02:22:44.000 You do?

02:22:45.000 Okay, let me find it.

02:22:46.000 Yes, yes, yes.

02:22:46.000 I didn't find it.

02:22:49.000 I'm going to go Swami... 0.99

02:22:54.000 Let's see if I can find you on Twitter here so I can send people to it.

02:22:59.000 Yes.

02:23:01.000 Nope, that's not you. 0.99

02:23:02.000 This is some crazy dude. 0.96

02:23:04.000 Here is love but innocent. 0.97

02:23:06.000 Here is knowledge but creative.

02:23:07.000 Here is life but...

02:23:08.000 That's not you, right?

02:23:09.000 That's whack.

02:23:10.000 You wouldn't write something that whack.

02:23:12.000 Who is that guy?

02:23:14.000 It is me.

02:23:15.000 Is that you?

02:23:17.000 We'll find you.

02:23:19.000 Do you know what your Twitter name is?

02:23:23.000 You don't know what it is?

02:23:24.000 No.

02:23:24.000 Does someone else do it for you?

02:23:25.000 Yeah.

02:23:26.000 Hmm. 0.97

02:23:27.000 That's ridiculous. 0.99

02:23:29.000 There's a lot of you on there, unfortunately. 0.98

02:23:31.000 There's a lot of Amit Goswami's.

02:23:33.000 It shouldn't be a whole lot.

02:23:35.000 I mean, after all, how many?

02:23:36.000 There's a bunch of different ones on Twitter, believe it or not.

02:23:40.000 Yeah, you probably got a lot of fakers.

02:23:42.000 There's dudes who are, you know, you say no, but I'm telling you, there's a lot of fakers out there.

02:23:48.000 Can I ask a quick question?

02:23:50.000 You said earlier in the podcast that now, because of lasers and stuff like that, you can measure particles a lot more accurately, and that's how you found that particles actually are moving.

02:24:02.000 Do you, is the laser itself, is that an accurate tool?

02:24:07.000 Has that been proven to be 100%?

02:24:09.000 Because what if it was just, you know, the laser saying that, but then down, you know, 20 years from now, you find out, oh, it's just a laser.

02:24:15.000 No, no, no, no.

02:24:16.000 It's a measurement of distance.

02:24:18.000 So, for a macro object, like we were talking about tables and chairs at that time, in between your looking and my looking, they move so very little, It's very hard to observe with just ordinary way that we measure,

02:24:35.000 like triangulating and all that.

02:24:37.000 But with the laser beam, because lasers travel in very, very close to straight lines, the diffraction effect is virtually gone.

02:24:46.000 Very good straight lines.

02:24:47.000 So triangulation becomes very accurate, because you really can go a long distance and Even that small measurement, you can triangulate and therefore measure it.

02:24:59.000 I found you on Twitter.

02:25:00.000 Your Twitter handle is quantumactivist.

02:25:03.000 Good.

02:25:04.000 Quantumactivist on Twitter.

02:25:05.000 So ladies and gentlemen, please follow him on Twitter.

02:25:08.000 I'm going to write that right now.

02:25:10.000 Follow...

02:25:10.000 Okay.

02:25:12.000 And thank you very much.

02:25:13.000 Really appreciate it.

02:25:14.000 It's been a true pleasure to talk to you.

02:25:16.000 I really enjoyed it.

02:25:17.000 And if you ever want to come back, if you have anything that you want to promote, please come back on.

02:25:23.000 We would love to have you.

02:25:24.000 We'd love to talk to you some more.

02:25:25.000 It's a real pleasure.

02:25:26.000 I would love to be back.

02:25:27.000 Thank you.

02:25:27.000 If you go to audible.com forward slash Joe, you will get one free audiobook and 30 days off of Audible, the premier audio resource as far as audiobooks and podcasts and comedy albums.

02:25:42.000 It's a beautiful company and they have been supporting this podcast for a while so we appreciate them very much.

02:25:48.000 Audible.com forward slash Joe.

02:25:51.000 Go there, get yourself a free audiobook.

02:25:53.000 Is any of your books available on audiobook?

02:25:57.000 I don't think they did audio, but they're all available as e-books on the Kindle.

02:26:02.000 Oh, they are?

02:26:02.000 But nobody's done an audio version of it?

02:26:04.000 I don't think anybody has done an audio version of it.

02:26:07.000 In fact, if you can inspire some of these people to do it, I would love it.

02:26:11.000 I'm sure they would love to.

02:26:13.000 It's on Amazon.

02:26:14.000 Let's see if there's an audio version of it.

02:26:17.000 Sorry, that's an inside joke.

02:26:22.000 Thank you, sir.

02:26:23.000 I really appreciate it.

02:26:24.000 Dr. Amit Goswami.

02:26:25.000 Amit? 0.95

02:26:26.000 Amit.

02:26:26.000 Am I saying it right?

02:26:27.000 Absolutely.

02:26:28.000 How do you pronounce it?

02:26:29.000 Amit.

02:26:30.000 Amit Goswami, the quantum activist, just quantum activist on Twitter.

02:26:35.000 Thanks also to Onnit.com.

02:26:37.000 That's O-N-N-I-T. Go there. 1.00

02:26:39.000 Use the code name ROGAN. Save yourself 10% off any and all supplements.

02:26:44.000 Thank you to DeathSquad.tv.

02:26:47.000 We got a big show, or he's got a big show, coming up this Thursday.

02:26:51.000 That's next week in...

02:26:52.000 It's already past Thursday.

02:26:54.000 It's Friday.

02:26:55.000 Next Thursday in San Diego at the American Comedy Company, a fantastic little club.

02:27:01.000 It's Yoshi Obayashi, Billy Bonnell, Jason Tebow, Tony Hinchcliffe, and Brian Redband.

02:27:09.000 It's a hell of a show, San Diego.

02:27:10.000 Go on down.

02:27:11.000 And then tonight at the Ice House in Pasadena, 10 p.m.

02:27:15.000 show, Brian Redband, Tony Hinchcliffe, Matty Kirsch.

02:27:20.000 Who else?

02:27:21.000 You caught me off guard.

02:27:23.000 Sam Tripoli, Josh Fadum, Tony Hinchcliffe, Johnny Pemberton.

02:27:27.000 A lot of people.

02:27:28.000 And me.

02:27:29.000 Subscribe to the Death Squad podcast on iTunes where you can listen to excellent podcasts like Kevin Pereira's...

02:27:40.000 Where's he going?

02:27:41.000 He had to make a phone call.

02:27:42.000 Oh, up there?

02:27:44.000 There ain't nothing out there, man.

02:27:46.000 Kevin Pereira is Pointless.

02:27:49.000 What is...

02:27:49.000 Triple X Squad, Muff Said, live shows.

02:27:53.000 The Ice House Tonight.

02:27:54.000 Ian Edwards, right?

02:27:55.000 Ian Edwards, Preposterous Sessions.

02:27:58.000 By the way, he was on Conan Wednesday, so go to Conan's website and check his set out Wednesday.

02:28:03.000 Beautiful.

02:28:04.000 He had a really good set.

02:28:05.000 Alright, folks.

02:28:05.000 We've got a hell of a week coming next week.

02:28:08.000 This podcast keeps rolling, you dirty bitches. 1.00

02:28:11.000 We stop for no man. 1.00

02:28:13.000 We stop for No Quantum Theory.

02:28:14.000 We got Monday. 1.00

02:28:15.000 We got Boss Rootin' in the fucking house. 1.00

02:28:18.000 Tuesday, Scott Sigler, who is a horror author. 0.99

02:28:22.000 And then we're working on someone Wednesday.

02:28:24.000 Hopefully I'm going to be able to get Justin Wren.

02:28:27.000 He's the white guy that's been working to save the pygmies in Africa. 0.99

02:28:31.000 I don't know if you see the video of the first time they ever saw a white guy.

02:28:34.000 He's a former MMA fighter who's now living in the Congo trying to help pygmies. 1.00

02:28:38.000 I heard that was fake.

02:28:39.000 Oh no, it's not fake at all.

02:28:40.000 Those photos?

02:28:41.000 I heard those are fake photos.

02:28:42.000 Oh no, this isn't a photo.

02:28:43.000 It's really recent.

02:28:44.000 I think you're thinking of something different.

02:28:45.000 It wasn't a photo.

02:28:46.000 It was a video and it was like staged apparently.

02:28:48.000 This is not.

02:28:49.000 This is modern iPhone footage of him in the Congo meeting these pygmies. 1.00

02:28:53.000 Little boys.

02:28:54.000 Little kids like they had never seen a white guy before. 1.00

02:28:56.000 Alright, you fucks. 1.00

02:28:57.000 We love the shit out of you. 1.00

02:28:59.000 And keep it together, bitches. 1.00

02:29:01.000 And we'll see you on Monday. 1.00

The Joe Rogan Experience - March 08, 2013

Joe Rogan Experience #334 - Dr. Amit Goswami

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