The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #442 - Steven Rinella

00:00:02.000 Hello, my friends.

00:00:04.000 How are you?

00:00:06.000 This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience is brought to you by Audible.com.

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00:03:11.000 O-N-N-I-T. Use the code word ROGAN to save... 0.90

00:03:13.000 ROGAN? What was that?

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00:03:21.000 And, uh...

00:03:22.000 What is the new website that you guys have while we're on this?

00:03:26.000 People can download MeatEater episodes?

00:03:28.000 MeatEater.vhx.tv.

00:03:34.000 So all these people that have been saying, Dude, how do I get these MeatEater episodes, man?

00:03:38.000 I can't find them online.

00:03:40.000 Unless you're going the BitTorrent route, which is rude.

00:03:44.000 Don't do that.

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00:04:02.000 And the one that we were on is Season 4. Volume 4 is the bundle that has the one with Brian Callen and I. That's got both of them?

00:04:10.000 Yes.

00:04:11.000 Oh, good.

00:04:12.000 According to Helen Cho's email.

00:04:14.000 I assume she knows.

00:04:17.000 So that's it right there?

00:04:18.000 Dude, I'm so glad you can get those now like that. 0.98

00:04:21.000 It's ridiculous. 0.92

00:04:22.000 Man, we get a lot of people asking about that. 0.79

00:04:24.000 Well, finally, meateater.vhx.tv.

00:04:28.000 That's it.

00:04:29.000 I'm sure you have a link on meateater.com, too, right?

00:04:31.000 I'm guessing.

00:04:33.000 Is it meateater.com or meateater.tv?

00:04:35.000 The.

00:04:35.000 The meateater.com.

00:04:37.000 Meateater sounds like it could be.

00:04:39.000 Well, some guy sitting on it.

00:04:40.000 Oh. 1.00

00:04:42.000 Well, it's you and a gay porn company. 1.00

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00:04:49.000 Meateater.vhx.com and go to TheMeateater.com.

00:04:53.000 Steve Rinell is here. 0.99

00:04:54.000 Let's not fuck around any further. 0.99

00:04:56.000 Cue the music, young Jamie. 1.00

00:05:09.000 Some pigs are going to die this weekend, Steve Rinella. 0.99

00:05:11.000 That's right. 1.00

00:05:12.000 I'm 90 shots in. 0.99

00:05:14.000 My shoulder's made out of fucking hamburger right now from all the impacts. 0.99

00:05:18.000 Unless someone thinks we're talking about police, man. 0.99

00:05:20.000 We're talking about Seuss Scroffa. 0.97

00:05:22.000 Yeah, I thought about posting a photo of the targets that I shot saying some pigs are going to die, but I didn't think that that would be. 0.97

00:05:30.000 No. 0.71

00:05:31.000 That could be problematic.

00:05:33.000 Yep, Seuss Scroffa.

00:05:34.000 I'm glad you're here this week.

00:05:35.000 The Eurasian wild boar.

00:05:37.000 You know what's interesting, man?

00:05:42.000 All pigs in North America, so domestic, the kind you're baking, feral ones, wild ones, it's all one species.

00:05:51.000 Yeah, you told me that.

00:05:52.000 As much as there's difference, they recognize them all as one species.

00:05:55.000 There's some old world, like in Africa there's some other members of the pig family, and javelina or not, javelina are a peccary, so like when you hear javelina or people talk about pigs in Arizona, they're often talking about a peccary. 0.82

00:06:08.000 But yeah, all the pigs...

00:06:10.000 So, Charlotte. 0.91

00:06:11.000 No, that was the spider.

00:06:13.000 Wilbur.

00:06:14.000 From Wilbur to Hogzilla is Sue Scroffa.

00:06:18.000 That's so strange.

00:06:20.000 I didn't know that until you told me when we were in Wisconsin.

00:06:23.000 It doesn't seem right.

00:06:24.000 No, there's all these varieties, you know, but they roll all the dogs under.

00:06:29.000 I mean, you think that pigs look, you think that Wilbur are like the classic Well, they don't really exist.

00:06:36.000 The classic pink hairless farm pig.

00:06:38.000 I mean, he doesn't look as different from what we'd call a Russian boar, which is a variety.

00:06:43.000 He doesn't look as different as a chihuahua does from a mastiff.

00:06:46.000 Yeah.

00:06:47.000 But they would discuss those as being, what, canis, demes...

00:06:55.000 What's weird about the common dog is that they all emanate from wolves.

00:06:59.000 All of them.

00:07:00.000 That's so strange.

00:07:01.000 That's wild.

00:07:02.000 That you take a wolf and turn it into an English bulldog? 1.00

00:07:05.000 Like how the fuck did that take place? 0.98

00:07:07.000 But I don't know, those boys in Russia that were taking silver foxes and just like selecting for behavior and stuff, they could move those things so fast. 0.99

00:07:19.000 Really?

00:07:19.000 They moved the traits, you mean?

00:07:21.000 Yeah.

00:07:22.000 I can't even remember the details, and if I did tell you the details, you'd look it up and then call me and tell me where I was wrong.

00:07:29.000 So I learned not to get too detailed with you.

00:07:32.000 But they could move dogs really fast.

00:07:35.000 Selecting for color, behavioral characteristics, it was amazing.

00:07:39.000 Just in a few generations, you know?

00:07:41.000 Wow.

00:07:42.000 So they're very malleable.

00:07:44.000 I've always wondered how, I mean, I think it's a massive mystery, isn't it, how dogs were initially created out of wolves?

00:07:51.000 You hear so much contradictory stuff.

00:07:53.000 At a point in time, because I've always kind of followed this a little bit, and I've written about, I learned a lot about dogs.

00:08:00.000 I probably mentioned this to you before.

00:08:02.000 I wrote a piece about eating dogs in Vietnam, and so I had this kind of little summation in this article about the history of dogs.

00:08:10.000 And it went through the fact-checking process at Outside Magazine, which is very rigorous.

00:08:13.000 Like, if you say, my mom is my mom, they'll call your mom. 0.78

00:08:17.000 And, like, make sure it's your mom.

00:08:19.000 And I had all these things that I kind of, like, assumed were just true, you know?

00:08:25.000 And this fact-checker's like, that's, in fact, not true.

00:08:27.000 So I had to relearn my understanding of dogs.

00:08:30.000 And at the time, they were saying, oh, you know, it seems that dogs originated in China.

00:08:34.000 And, you know, like, the oldest trace of dogs is there.

00:08:49.000 Wow.

00:09:05.000 It had already gone through some transformations.

00:09:09.000 They weren't just traveling with wolf dogs.

00:09:11.000 They were traveling with a dog that had been under selective pressure for 15,000 years.

00:09:19.000 Because I remember one time saying, oh, the domestic dog seems to go back 30,000 years.

00:09:24.000 The domestic dog seems to go back 50,000 years.

00:09:26.000 But people arrived here, it was debated, but sometime between maybe 15,000-20,000 years ago.

00:09:31.000 And when they showed up, they had a dog that was not a wolf.

00:09:34.000 But then there was introgression from wolves.

00:09:37.000 But this seems to be a really hot topic and people are always digging into this because genetics is changing everything we understand.

00:09:42.000 Things that we used to think were related are not related.

00:09:46.000 Things we think were not related are in fact related.

00:09:50.000 The whole mule deer thing, that mule deer seem to be a very new species since the Pleistocene.

00:09:58.000 Really?

00:09:59.000 Yeah, they haven't been around long.

00:10:00.000 It was like a...

00:10:02.000 A hybridization event between black-tailed deer and white-tailed deer created the mule deer.

00:10:07.000 It's like our newest big game species and it's probably...

00:10:10.000 We'll be one that doesn't last long.

00:10:12.000 You know, it'll be like in the long term, you might look at mule deer and see them as this blip.

00:10:17.000 Really?

00:10:18.000 Yeah, just like a...

00:10:19.000 I mean, they're so susceptible to being out-competed.

00:10:22.000 They're very...

00:10:23.000 Habitat fragmentation's hard on them.

00:10:25.000 And they haven't been here long.

00:10:26.000 I mean, on the other hand, whitetail deer have been here millions of years.

00:10:29.000 They thrive.

00:10:30.000 They're super adaptable.

00:10:31.000 They can eat anything, live anywhere.

00:10:33.000 They're like amazingly...

00:10:36.000 Capable of surviving on this continent, and mule deer are like this new thing.

00:10:40.000 It's a bummer, like my favorite animal, I like the sun, you know, and the sun's only going to last four billion more years, it's going to burn out.

00:10:47.000 I like the sun.

00:10:49.000 I like mule deer a lot too, and it seems like, I mean, despite a lot of people's best efforts to prevent it from happening, it seems like mule deer are vulnerable.

00:10:57.000 It seems like they're slowly starting to die off, too.

00:10:59.000 There was an article about the numbers dropping and their habitat dropping and being diminished and they're being pushed out.

00:11:05.000 Yeah, and some things are hard to explain, you know.

00:11:08.000 But whitetails, they've always lived in the southeast.

00:11:12.000 And whitetails seem to periodically expand out and then for climatic reasons retract.

00:11:18.000 But they kind of keep that ancestral homeland.

00:11:20.000 I'm talking in very long term, that ancestral homeland in the southeast.

00:11:23.000 But at one time, whitetails made it all the way across the country.

00:11:27.000 And some climatic conditions or something happened and the population retracted, but it left this remnant population in California on the Pacific Coast.

00:11:35.000 And then there was a massive genetic barrier, you know, like if you took a bunch of dogs and separated them and put, you know, some dogs in South America and some dogs in North America and came back and checked on them in a long time, they're going to have gone in a little different direction.

00:11:50.000 And that became the black tail.

00:11:53.000 And then at a time, the blacktail seems to have extended its range eastward.

00:11:57.000 The white-tailed deer extended its range back westward, and there was a hybridization event where male blacktails were breeding with female whitetails and producing this hybrid mule deer.

00:12:10.000 There was a habitat retraction again, and blacktails retracted back to the coast, and whitetails retracted back the other way, and you had to spawn this thing we call mule deer.

00:12:19.000 How do they follow that?

00:12:21.000 Like, how do they know that this- There was all this guy, Valerius Geist, who's like the most interesting biologist- He's a guy out of Calgary.

00:12:27.000 And Valerius Geist has kind of like done so much work on Big Game.

00:12:31.000 He's kind of like the mule.

00:12:32.000 He's like, people are like, oh, he's the mule deer guy.

00:12:34.000 He's the elk guy.

00:12:35.000 He's the buffalo guy.

00:12:36.000 And he came up with a lot of interesting theories.

00:12:38.000 Like some stuff we talked about in the past where Valerius Geist came up with this idea that what happens to species when they colonize land that had been vacated by glaciers?

00:12:46.000 You know, and there's like certain things that go on.

00:12:48.000 And he was into founder effect, you know, where...

00:12:53.000 Imagine, like, one way we got different as people is imagine that just, like, four people struck off, you know, across the oceans in a homemade craft and landed there, and you had a male and a female, and they spawn a new,

00:13:10.000 you know, they successfully breed and create a new population, but let's say they both just happen to be 6'7", you know, and 300 pounds, you have, like, this thing like the founder effect where...

00:13:23.000 A small little population can carry traits and characteristics that are maybe not totally, not a complete example of where they came from.

00:13:33.000 And so you have like a radical deviation when they spread out.

00:13:37.000 Wow.

00:13:38.000 So he got into this stuff with animals and why do animals seem to change?

00:13:42.000 Like when the bison arrived in North America, why did it all of a sudden have a six foot horn span?

00:13:48.000 And then shrank very rapidly.

00:13:50.000 So he got into a lot of these ideas, and he also did a lot of genetic work, like mitochondrial DNA so they can track female descent.

00:13:58.000 You should have him on sometime.

00:14:00.000 Yeah.

00:14:00.000 You know, he'd be the coolest guy to have on in the world, actually, Valerius Geist.

00:14:03.000 Yeah?

00:14:04.000 Yeah.

00:14:04.000 Where does he live?

00:14:05.000 Could I come listen?

00:14:06.000 Yeah, you can come in.

00:14:07.000 I would just listen at home like most people, right?

00:14:08.000 Well, you could just come in.

00:14:09.000 You could come in.

00:14:10.000 I'm sure you'd have questions.

00:14:12.000 Yeah.

00:14:13.000 You could just sit there and drink coffee.

00:14:15.000 Okay.

00:14:15.000 And I'll be like...

00:14:17.000 Sounds perfect.

00:14:17.000 I'll be like, no, explain this to me, Mr. Geist.

00:14:20.000 Yeah, he's a great guy.

00:14:21.000 So anyways, he got into a lot of stuff with...

00:14:23.000 With deer.

00:14:25.000 And I bring all this up because we're looking at your fine specimen, your fine 4x4 muley sitting here on the desk. 1.00

00:14:29.000 It would never happen if it wasn't for you.

00:14:31.000 Boom, boom.

00:14:33.000 I was watching this thing that was talking about deer on television.

00:14:38.000 They were talking about the difference in the size of the bodies of deer from the far north, like Alberta in Canada, to the far south, like in Mexico.

00:14:45.000 And the further you go south, the animals tend to be smaller.

00:14:49.000 They tend to be smaller-bodied.

00:14:51.000 Yeah, it's the Prince, maybe you got, it's the Prince, Allen, is the Burger Principle?

00:14:56.000 It's got a name. 0.99

00:14:58.000 Damn. 0.99

00:14:59.000 There's a name for that principle. 0.99

00:15:01.000 And it would be that, if you look, like take the extreme like whitetails, like the biggest, like guys dream of going to Alberta to hunt whitetails because whitetails are huge.

00:15:09.000 They're like 400 pounds, right?

00:15:11.000 They're enormous.

00:15:11.000 They get big, yeah.

00:15:12.000 That's crazy.

00:15:13.000 That's an elk.

00:15:13.000 I mean, 400 is huge, but you know, you get deer to push it up.

00:15:16.000 Then you go down to Florida Keys, that's a whitetail.

00:15:20.000 Those things are 70, 80 pounds.

00:15:22.000 Wow.

00:15:22.000 So there's this principle, the Bergman.

00:15:25.000 It's got a name.

00:15:26.000 My brother, he told me what the name of it is.

00:15:29.000 But some species seem to be a little bit exempt.

00:15:31.000 They say that mule deer don't do that quite as much.

00:15:34.000 You know, you get some really big mule deer in other areas.

00:15:37.000 They're not as tied to it, but just like a general principle.

00:15:39.000 And what they speculate it has to do with is heat retention.

00:15:43.000 So you have more, like, you weigh more than me.

00:15:51.000 I have more surface area per unit of mass than you have.

00:16:00.000 So if you're a really big deer, and if you're in the north, the thing you're trying to do is retain body heat.

00:16:05.000 And the animals, like people, shed body heat by just exposing parts.

00:16:09.000 Like when deer lay down, they lay down with their legs tucked in them.

00:16:11.000 Because you look on the inside of a deer's leg, very thin hair, very thin hair under the tail, right?

00:16:17.000 And when they're laying down, if it's cold, they're protecting those areas that have thin hair.

00:16:21.000 So a big animal has less surface area, so he's less capable of shedding heat and more capable of retaining heat.

00:16:30.000 A small, wiry animal has greater surface there and he's able to shed heat.

00:16:35.000 So one of the things you look at mule deer, like mule deer further south will have, tend to have bigger ears because a great way to shed heat is through your ears.

00:16:47.000 So they'll have thinner hair on their ears, bigger ears.

00:16:50.000 If you think about a radical version of it, just imagine...

00:16:53.000 Like the woolly mammoth.

00:16:54.000 The woolly mammoth is more closely related to the African elephant than he is to the Macedon.

00:17:02.000 In North America, at the tail end of the Pleistocene, you had Mammoths and mastodons.

00:17:07.000 And mammoths were not very close related to mastodons.

00:17:09.000 They're pretty close related to African elephants.

00:17:12.000 Mammoths live in the north.

00:17:13.000 They have essentially no ear.

00:17:14.000 They have just a very small ear. 0.97

00:17:15.000 You look at African elephants have those giant freaking ears because they can funnel a lot of blood through those ears and shed a lot of heat.

00:17:23.000 It's like you shed a lot of heat through your fingers and your ears, how they get so cold so fast because you push a lot of blood into those areas and it's cooling off in the air.

00:17:33.000 So that's one reason, that's like a theory of, if it is, I think it might be the Bergman principle.

00:17:38.000 Bergman's rule.

00:17:39.000 Bergman's rule.

00:17:40.000 Nice word.

00:17:41.000 Bergman's rule has one explanation for it.

00:17:44.000 I don't know if you'd ever really know the absolute truth, but an explanation for it is heat retention and heat dissipation.

00:17:49.000 That's fascinating.

00:17:50.000 So the stuff that's on the northern extreme of its range, where it's butting up against, like the thing that puts the throttle on its existence, is cold.

00:18:00.000 He will tend to get bigger.

00:18:01.000 In mammals, he'll tend to get bigger.

00:18:03.000 But then there's all these other deviations, like how you get these huge reptiles on islands.

00:18:08.000 And then on islands, you tend to have dwarfing, like that Wrangel Island off Siberia had these little mini mammoths.

00:18:15.000 So there's all these other factors.

00:18:16.000 I don't even know why it's like that with islands, but I know with latitude that you get that.

00:18:22.000 And I think I even read from, maybe it was Valerius Geist, I was writing about how mule deer seem to not be quite as...

00:18:30.000 They seem to defy Bergman's rule a little bit more than some other species do.

00:18:35.000 Probably because they're a hybrid?

00:18:36.000 I have no idea.

00:18:37.000 That's fascinating.

00:18:38.000 The island dwarfism is a weird thing.

00:18:40.000 It's bizarre.

00:18:41.000 How it doesn't apply to lizards.

00:18:43.000 Yeah, those things get huge and other things get small.

00:18:46.000 You know another weird thing about mule deer, and this kind of fits here because we're in California.

00:18:51.000 Obviously, I-5.

00:18:52.000 So for...

00:18:55.000 Black-tailed deer are very, very similar to mule deer.

00:18:59.000 Columbia black-tailed.

00:18:59.000 So in California, you have Columbia black-tailed.

00:19:01.000 Washington, Oregon, you have Columbia black-tailed.

00:19:03.000 Eventually, you get up to the north of just north.

00:19:05.000 On the coast, you get to the B.C., Alaska border, and then you start calling them sick of black-tailed. 0.94

00:19:09.000 Sick of black-tails, man, you look at them, it's like they almost look like a white-tailed, but they're a black-tailed deer.

00:19:15.000 The Columbia black-tailed resembles much more a mule deer.

00:19:18.000 For record-keeping purposes, the divider between the range of the Columbia mule deer and I'm sorry, the divider between the range of the Colombian blacktail and the mule deer is I-5.

00:19:31.000 Really?

00:19:31.000 So if that sumbitch jumps the road, he is, for record-keeping purposes...

00:19:37.000 He goes from being a Columbia blacktail to a mule deer. 0.95

00:19:40.000 So you look like all the record book Columbia blacktails are shot along the left side of I-5 on a northward direction because they're much bigger than anywhere else.

00:19:52.000 But they've got to divide it somewhere, so they divide it like that.

00:19:54.000 So in one thing's life, he could jump back and forth.

00:19:56.000 They're not even recognized as distinct.

00:19:58.000 If you look at the Latin name for them, the scientific name for them, they're Taxonomists don't recognize the difference, but we all do.

00:20:06.000 You look at me like, that's not a freaking mule deer, man.

00:20:09.000 I can tell by looking, but it's just these morphological differences.

00:20:13.000 These things you see, but they're not really betrayed in the genetics.

00:20:18.000 That's fascinating, man.

00:20:20.000 It's so interesting trying to track the history of these animals and that somebody actually did that and figured out.

00:20:27.000 Yeah, and it changes all the time.

00:20:28.000 That's funny.

00:20:29.000 My old man He used to reject so much of this stuff because it would change.

00:20:35.000 He'd be like, well, they used to say this.

00:20:36.000 So I don't believe any of it.

00:20:38.000 Like, well, they were saying the best understanding and now this is the...

00:20:42.000 You know, it's not static, subject to change, but it's frustrating for people.

00:20:48.000 I'm glad you're on this week because this is a week that's pretty controversial in the news, this story about this black rhino that they auctioned off a hunt for. 0.97

00:20:57.000 This is some fascinating shit to me because... 0.98

00:21:00.000 Fill me in. 0.99

00:21:01.000 Do you know the story?

00:21:02.000 I know no more than what you said.

00:21:04.000 I've been at a thing all week.

00:21:06.000 Oh, you were at the SHOT Show.

00:21:07.000 Yeah, so I haven't even...

00:21:08.000 They auctioned off a hunt for a black rhino.

00:21:15.000 The winner paid $350,000 to shoot this rhino.

00:21:19.000 There's only like X amount of thousand of them left in the world. 0.99

00:21:23.000 And people are going fucking bananas. 0.60

00:21:25.000 Can I guess that they're using that $350,000 to put up enforcement? 0.98

00:21:30.000 Yes, for conservation.

00:21:32.000 They generated over a million dollars in the auction.

00:21:34.000 Really?

00:21:35.000 Allegedly, yeah.

00:21:37.000 And what they're saying is that this rhino had to go anyway because this rhino was an old non-breeder and he was very aggressive and he was trying to kill the younger males.

00:21:47.000 And because it's an extinct or because it's an endangered species, this was an animal that they were going to have to do something about anyway.

00:21:54.000 Really? 0.99

00:21:55.000 Yeah, they would have either had to, I guess, put him in animal prison, or they were going to have to fucking shoot him. 0.99

00:22:00.000 So they decided to auction off. 0.98

00:22:02.000 They have this very specific animal that they've targeted, this old, non-breeding male.

00:22:07.000 And the guy who auctioned... 0.99

00:22:20.000 I was going to ask you about that too, because Texas is a fucking strange place, man. 0.97

00:22:29.000 It's a way different wildlife model. 0.98

00:22:31.000 Yes.

00:22:32.000 Since being introduced to hunting by you, I've become pretty obsessed.

00:22:37.000 And I read about it all the time, and I'm trying to sort out all the different philosophies and try to figure out why people think what they think.

00:22:45.000 But what I'm...

00:22:47.000 Most fascinated by, in Texas, is these wild game farms.

00:22:52.000 This is a really weird thing they do. 0.93

00:22:55.000 I saw some online that were like fucking 70 acres, and they have a high fence, and people are pretending that they're hunting in these things. 0.58

00:23:03.000 Yeah, they'll sometimes set the animal out on the day. 0.96

00:23:09.000 It's crazy.

00:23:10.000 But it's something of...

00:23:12.000 Let's come back around that, but I want to talk for a minute about the...

00:23:17.000 The rhino thing...

00:23:18.000 There are versions of that here, and we can talk about...

00:23:21.000 I can talk in a much more educated way or in a much more knowledgeable fashion about versions of that that occur here in the U.S. But, like, I've never been to Africa.

00:23:30.000 I haven't hunted in Africa.

00:23:31.000 I have ill-informed opinions about what goes on in Africa, but I recognize when it comes to stuff like this, it's...

00:23:39.000 There are so many contradictions that are hard to deal with, and it's really difficult for people to get their heads wrapped around why a guy...

00:23:48.000 Not knowing the person, I can't say that the person is saying who's like, oh, I would just as happily give you the money to help save rhinos.

00:23:58.000 But if this one has to go anyways, I suppose I'll come and get it.

00:24:02.000 I don't really know what his motivations are.

00:24:04.000 His motivations are not that.

00:24:05.000 He's a part of a big game trophy hunting group.

00:24:09.000 Yeah.

00:24:10.000 He's not going to be able to bring it back into the U.S. probably.

00:24:14.000 I don't know.

00:24:14.000 I mean, I don't know what he was trying to do.

00:24:16.000 I don't know what he's planning to do.

00:24:17.000 I don't know, but I know I've been reading all these articles.

00:24:20.000 They interviewed the guy.

00:24:21.000 He's afraid of his life.

00:24:22.000 I mean, they're talking about skinning his children alive.

00:24:25.000 Is that right?

00:24:26.000 Animal rights people get pretty crazy.

00:24:28.000 Can I tell you about a parallel thing that goes on in the U.S.? Because I just can't speak to it there.

00:24:36.000 Like, I don't even know who...

00:24:37.000 Is it owned?

00:24:38.000 The Rhino?

00:24:39.000 I mean, is it on a...

00:24:40.000 Is it like on...

00:24:40.000 It's on a conservation.

00:24:42.000 It's on a concession.

00:24:43.000 Well, what they're doing is they have like, you know, X amount of thousands of them.

00:24:48.000 And they need money in order to maintain the property and enforce it.

00:24:51.000 That's a good question.

00:24:52.000 I don't know.

00:24:53.000 Yeah.

00:24:53.000 Let me tell you about a parallel thing that happens in the U.S. If you're interested.

00:24:57.000 Yes.

00:24:58.000 Okay.

00:24:59.000 In the U.S. we have...

00:25:01.000 We abide by the basic notion, this is like generally true in the U.S., that wildlife belongs to people.

00:25:07.000 So, if you have, let's take an imaginary elk, and this imaginary elk is on Yellowstone National Park.

00:25:15.000 And one day, the elk jumps a fence and lands on National Forest in Montana.

00:25:20.000 And he jumps another fence and he's on State Forest in Montana.

00:25:24.000 And he jumps another fence and he's on a big ranch in Montana.

00:25:30.000 Throughout that animal's day, he's always belonged to the people.

00:25:38.000 When he's in Montana, he's belonged to the state of Montana who's in charge for his management.

00:25:44.000 So we have this idea.

00:25:45.000 In a rough sense, we have this idea that we maintain here that wildlife is held in the public trust.

00:25:50.000 An individual can control Access to his lands for hunting, but the animal belongs to the state.

00:25:57.000 You don't get to make decisions necessarily about the things that are on your property.

00:26:02.000 And that's been something that Americans, and particularly American hunters, have always been proud of.

00:26:08.000 We have this North American model of wildlife conservation we always talk about, which is this idea of public trust wildlife, and that we manage it in long-term things because people have a vested interest in having more and more animals around for whatever purpose, viewing, hunting, etc., One of the things they do,

00:26:24.000 though, and so you take an animal like the bighorn sheep, and the bighorn sheep at a time was pretty nearly wiped out.

00:26:31.000 I mean, they were hurting.

00:26:32.000 They were never hurting as bad as black rhinos are, but they were hurting really bad.

00:26:35.000 And as we got them restored, we started having limited numbers of tags.

00:26:38.000 So you might have a mountain range, and every year they determine that we can kill one sheep out of that range.

00:26:44.000 And people will, and I do this every year, people will apply for a lottery that's conducted by the state.

00:26:50.000 And you put your name in the hat, you pay a fee, They, you know, put all the names in there, draw one out, and be like, Dave draws a tag.

00:26:58.000 And this generates a whole bunch of money, and they use it for tranquilizing sheep that you can helicopter them to new areas and restore the species.

00:27:05.000 And all the funding comes from this kind of stuff.

00:27:06.000 One thing they realized a great way to make money is if you can get that up, let's say you can kill five out of that mountain range, they might wind up going, we're going to do, you know, we'll do four through the lottery, which is for everyone, like the common man's pool, but we're going to take one and auction it off.

00:27:22.000 Every year the one, the Bighorn sheep tag they auctioned in Montana, it goes for $200,000, $300,000, $400,000 every year.

00:27:31.000 I think recently it went for $380,000 or $400,000.

00:27:34.000 I mean, it's always up there.

00:27:35.000 I don't think it's broken a half million, but it goes up because if you go out in Montana and you go hunt six, if you go hunt the Missouri Breaks, All the record book bighorns come out of there.

00:27:46.000 The biggest bighorns, the biggest Rocky Mountain bighorns come out of the break.

00:27:50.000 So guys will pay a ton for what they call the governor's tag in Montana.

00:27:54.000 And it raises a ton of money.

00:27:55.000 And it does a ton of good.

00:27:57.000 But some people feel...

00:27:59.000 I see both sides of this argument.

00:28:01.000 Some people feel like that bit of money is not worth the damage you're doing by upsetting...

00:28:09.000 This idea of democratically owned and administered wildlife.

00:28:13.000 Like, most guys will put in their entire life for a bighorn sheep tag, and they'll pay the fee every year, and they have no chance.

00:28:19.000 I've been putting in for that tag for 14 years.

00:28:23.000 I've accumulated...

00:28:24.000 They started a bonus point system 12 years ago, and a bonus point system means that every year you put in, the next year you get a...

00:28:30.000 Every year you put in without being successful, you get a point, and they square your points.

00:28:35.000 So next year, my name will go in the hat 144 times.

00:28:40.000 If you did it for your first year, your name will go in the hat one time.

00:28:43.000 Even with my name in the hat 144 times, I don't think I'm even up to having a 1% chance of drawing a bighorn sheep tag.

00:28:51.000 Meanwhile, a guy can come in and he makes a bunch of money.

00:28:55.000 One guy that buys it lately made a lot of money selling sandwiches.

00:28:59.000 He comes in and he's like, I'll be buying one of those and I'll buy it next year.

00:29:04.000 And people are like, oh, that money is so useful.

00:29:07.000 And it is.

00:29:07.000 Other people are like, dude, this is not the country we live in because we're still kind of hurting from the idea of where we came from in Europe, which is like the Robin Hood model.

00:29:18.000 You gotta be rich to hunt.

00:29:40.000 We're good to go.

00:30:02.000 But other people who are on the other side of this say, yeah, but the money is so helpful.

00:30:05.000 And if it wasn't for big chunks of money like that, we wouldn't have recovered the bighorn sheep as effectively as we've recovered the bighorn sheep.

00:30:12.000 And it's not cheap.

00:30:14.000 Three or four hundred thousand dollars for a tag is incredible.

00:30:17.000 Yeah, type in Montana Governor's tag.

00:30:18.000 You'll see what it went for last time.

00:30:20.000 And do they sometimes fail?

00:30:21.000 I mean, they must.

00:30:23.000 I heard a story where the guys that buy it, Once you spend that kind of money, you want to rule out uncertainty.

00:30:30.000 And you know that you can picture the area, right?

00:30:32.000 Yes.

00:30:32.000 You know, all that stuff we've loaded through.

00:30:33.000 Yeah, we saw a lot of- When a guy will buy the governor's tag, he'll usually hire some guys, or he'll hire some guys to go spend a couple months.

00:30:43.000 They'll put together a dossier.

00:30:46.000 On the animals that are in the area?

00:30:47.000 Yeah, man.

00:30:47.000 Oh, my God.

00:30:48.000 That's ridiculous. 0.99

00:30:49.000 They scout them. 0.97

00:30:49.000 When they find one, they stay on it. 0.97

00:30:51.000 There's guys that just specialize in this business.

00:30:53.000 Look at that.

00:30:54.000 $480,000 bid.

00:30:56.000 The record for 2013. Oh, my God.

00:31:01.000 $480,000.

00:31:02.000 Somebody paid for the tag.

00:31:04.000 Look at those dudes going to war. 0.55

00:31:05.000 Yeah, his sack is kind of tucked up to the left.

00:31:07.000 He can't really appreciate it.

00:31:08.000 Yeah, we showed that video the other day of you talking about wanting to eat it.

00:31:14.000 So...

00:31:16.000 It's valuable to people.

00:31:17.000 It's a ton of money.

00:31:18.000 Not the sack.

00:31:19.000 No, not the sack.

00:31:20.000 But it really makes people mad.

00:31:22.000 There's a story, and I don't even know if it's true.

00:31:24.000 I heard it from enough people that tend to think it's true.

00:31:26.000 So these guys will go out and they'll get guys out there.

00:31:29.000 They find a tanker.

00:31:30.000 They want a ram that's scored.

00:31:32.000 That's got over 200 inches of horn or more.

00:31:35.000 And they find one and they don't let it out of their eyes.

00:31:38.000 They stay on it, stay on it, stay on it.

00:31:40.000 And eventually the guy comes out and they go, there he is, that's the one you want.

00:31:43.000 There's a rumor a few years ago this guy had done this and he'd spend all this money.

00:31:48.000 I'm just telling you unsubstantiated stuff.

00:31:50.000 I'm not telling you what year or his name because I don't want to say that and be wrong about it.

00:31:56.000 A high roller buys this thing, pays a figure rumored to be around $30,000 to have some guy check this out. 1.00

00:32:04.000 It comes down to it and the guy's like, third one from the front, third one from the front.

00:32:08.000 They go down on the goalie.

00:32:11.000 Get mixed around and he shoots and goes, oh, there's the wrong one.

00:32:14.000 Oh, no.

00:32:15.000 Yeah, but rumor has it that this gentleman later bought another one and went out and got a...

00:32:21.000 Bought another one.

00:32:22.000 Went out and got a big fatty.

00:32:23.000 So he might have spent $500,000, $600,000.

00:32:27.000 Yeah.

00:32:27.000 God!

00:32:28.000 I... And, man, I see, like, it tears me up because, like, everything in life, it's so complicated.

00:32:34.000 I see both sides of it.

00:32:35.000 Like, I love our system.

00:32:37.000 I love the idea that wildlife is public trust.

00:32:39.000 And I think that...

00:32:42.000 There's no other way to explain the success of the richness of animals and the richness of wilderness habitats we have in this country when you look at how many people live here, how wealthy we are, all the technology.

00:32:55.000 Some of the other countries that would be sitting where we're at have destroyed their wildlife.

00:33:00.000 But we have...

00:33:01.000 A very, in place, like a very intact system.

00:33:04.000 And we've done a fantastic job.

00:33:06.000 And I think that one of the ways to explain the fantastic job we've done is that we've really held true to this idea that wildlife belongs to us.

00:33:13.000 And when you do damage to it, you're doing damage to this idea of, you know, an American treasure.

00:33:21.000 You're damaging other people's interests, you know.

00:33:24.000 Um...

00:33:26.000 So yeah, man, it's complicated.

00:33:27.000 So that's my long way of answering the rhino thing.

00:33:30.000 I bet you anything it is extremely complicated and that there's emotion battling logic. 0.99

00:33:40.000 I'm amazed that it's cheaper to kill a fucking rhino than it is a bighorn sheep. 0.99

00:33:44.000 That is mine. 1.00

00:33:45.000 It is amazing.

00:33:46.000 That's by a hundred grand plus.

00:33:49.000 That's crazy.

00:33:50.000 That's amazing.

00:33:52.000 What's the ivory worth?

00:33:53.000 Not worth that.

00:33:54.000 I don't think they have ivory.

00:33:56.000 They have horns.

00:33:56.000 Their horn is made out of hair.

00:33:58.000 A rhino has a...

00:33:59.000 No, a black rhino's got a...

00:34:01.000 No.

00:34:01.000 Oh, a rhino horn's not ivory, but it's...

00:34:03.000 It's valuable.

00:34:04.000 Yeah, but it's not ivory. 1.00

00:34:05.000 No, it's valuable because they're idiots, because people think that it makes your dick hard. 1.00

00:34:09.000 Like, I guess they haven't heard about Viagra, wherever the fuck they're trying out rhino horn. 1.00

00:34:14.000 I went the other day, I mean, just like three days ago, I saw the act I went to see the current head of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service speak about some issues that we'll be facing this year. 0.98

00:34:24.000 And the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is getting really involved in the rhino trade.

00:34:29.000 When they talk about all the money they're spending, they're spending money on enforcement, they're spending money on trying to battle the source, that you might somehow convince people that they don't want it.

00:34:39.000 All the things you would do.

00:34:40.000 I remember thinking about the millions and millions of dollars they're talking about throwing around.

00:34:44.000 I remember being like, Too bad you can't just go find any guy who wants to go get one.

00:34:48.000 You'd give him more money than he's ever going to make hunting him.

00:34:51.000 Yeah.

00:34:52.000 But the world doesn't work that way, because some other dude would be like...

00:34:55.000 But I remember thinking, you would make every rhino poacher really wealthy, and they'd just be like, okay, cool, I'll quit.

00:35:02.000 Yeah, but it wouldn't work.

00:35:03.000 Then other people would come up, well, I'm going to be a rhino poacher too.

00:35:05.000 No, I know, but I remember just thinking, if those guys could only know the amount of...

00:35:08.000 Because you know they're not.

00:35:09.000 No matter what, that business, the guys that are actually out there with firearms, you can imagine, the guy that's out on the ground, Hunting rhinos, being chased by people who have pretty much a license to, in some cases, kill them.

00:35:24.000 Like, I don't think that guy is a rich man.

00:35:27.000 He's making someone wealthy, but there's no way that guy is rich.

00:35:31.000 Not only that, it's just such a bizarre thing.

00:35:34.000 The idea of shooting this giant, majestic, endangered animal just for its horn.

00:35:40.000 They're not eating them.

00:35:41.000 They're not doing anything else with them.

00:35:43.000 They're just shooting them and taking their horns. 0.99

00:35:45.000 And there's no real medicinal value.

00:35:47.000 It's not like the rhino...

00:35:48.000 I mean, it'd be one thing if the rhino horn had this incredible anti-aging property and it turned you into a young person again. 0.98

00:35:54.000 Well, you know, they'd probably fucking kill every rhino they could find. 0.97

00:35:57.000 But it doesn't do anything. 0.98

00:35:58.000 It doesn't really do anything.

00:36:00.000 But it's probably, I mean, it's an issue of poverty.

00:36:05.000 Yeah.

00:36:06.000 Not that that justifies it, but I'm saying, like, I don't even know the guys that are out poaching rhinos.

00:36:10.000 They might not even have any idea who it is that...

00:36:14.000 They might have some vague awareness about the properties, but I don't know if they believe in the properties as well.

00:36:18.000 Yeah, I'm a little bit ignorant about who's actually wanting these rhino horns.

00:36:23.000 What I've heard, it's an Asian thing.

00:36:25.000 But it seems to be one of the most bizarre misunderstandings and miscommunications ever. 0.98

00:36:30.000 In this day and age, with all the information that's available, especially because it's always about penises. 0.99

00:36:36.000 It's always about guys getting erect penises. 1.00

00:36:39.000 Well, it's a phallus. 1.00

00:36:39.000 It is a phallus. 1.00

00:36:40.000 It's got to be just that it's a nice phallus.

00:36:45.000 But they grind it up for medicine, apparently.

00:36:48.000 It's so strange.

00:36:49.000 I mean, it's an amazing animal.

00:36:50.000 When you look at a rhino, to me, I mean, it's one of the closest things when you look like a Triceratops or a Stegosaurus or something like that, and you look at a rhino, it's like one of the closest things to that ancient time. 0.98

00:37:03.000 You look at this big, fucking, giant, armored animal. 0.97

00:37:06.000 It's a strange, strange animal. 1.00

00:37:08.000 You know, and the idea that people are killing it to make their dick hard is just so bizarre and... 1.00

00:37:15.000 But no, they're killing it to make money, and people are buying it to make their dick hard. 0.99

00:37:22.000 Yeah, and it's not even working, you know? 0.99

00:37:24.000 It's just so strange.

00:37:25.000 We should make a public service announcement right now.

00:37:28.000 We'll have them drop leaflets over China.

00:37:30.000 It doesn't work.

00:37:32.000 Just bags full of Viagra.

00:37:34.000 Drop them with parachutes.

00:37:35.000 Just launch them.

00:37:38.000 Isn't it amazing in that way that there's stuff now that I'd be like, no, dude, this really does work to the point where it could cause trouble for you.

00:37:46.000 Yeah.

00:37:47.000 Like, try this. 1.00

00:37:47.000 Well, we have to go to a doctor because your dick won't go down. 1.00

00:37:50.000 It works on everybody, too. 1.00

00:37:52.000 It works on dying people. 1.00

00:37:53.000 You chew up a Viagra and you have a zombie dick in your pants scratching at your zipper trying to get out. 1.00

00:37:58.000 No, it's basically, you think that there would be no... 1.00

00:38:00.000 Do you think that the pharmaceutical industry would...

00:38:02.000 I mean, not the pharmaceutical...

00:38:03.000 What's the word?

00:38:04.000 The...

00:38:05.000 Like the aphrodisiac?

00:38:08.000 Yeah, I guess.

00:38:09.000 What is the term for like...

00:38:11.000 No, I'm saying what is the term for like...

00:38:14.000 Something that...

00:38:15.000 Like you want to eat Asian horn...

00:38:17.000 I guess an aphrodisiac.

00:38:19.000 Yeah.

00:38:20.000 That the aphrodisiac market for men would, you know... 0.81

00:38:25.000 The dick-hardening market for men would evaporate now that there are pharmaceuticals that are specifically tailored for that and are clinically proven to work.

00:38:33.000 Well, that's how the American troops get information about the Taliban from the Afghani warlords, is Viagra's, the number one method of payment.

00:38:43.000 Really?

00:38:44.000 Yeah, because these guys, a lot of these warlords, they're living the same way they lived back when Alexander the Great was run in Afghanistan.

00:38:51.000 Afghanistan has Kabul and then mountains, and mountains filled with villages and extremely primitive locations, and they're living old school. 0.99

00:39:02.000 And sometimes there's a guy who's a warlord who's got 20 wives, and his dick doesn't work anymore. 0.98

00:39:07.000 And they come along and they go, look, we got guns. 0.99

00:39:09.000 He's like, I got guns.

00:39:10.000 Look, we got women. 1.00

00:39:11.000 I got 20 wives. 1.00

00:39:12.000 And I can't even fuck them. 1.00

00:39:13.000 Oh, listen. 1.00

00:39:15.000 Check this out.

00:39:16.000 And you give them this bottle of pills. 1.00

00:39:17.000 And this guy's like, listen, these Taliban fucks, I never liked them. 1.00

00:39:20.000 They're hiding over there. 0.99

00:39:21.000 Those guys are over there.

00:39:22.000 How many more pills you got, man? 1.00

00:39:24.000 They fucking give these guys cases of Viagra. 1.00

00:39:27.000 They tell them everything. 1.00

00:39:28.000 They can't stop talking.

00:39:29.000 Yeah, you've heard of Big Mac diplomacy.

00:39:30.000 That's the way.

00:39:31.000 Viagra diplomacy.

00:39:33.000 That actually works.

00:39:35.000 I'm 40 years old in a month.

00:39:37.000 You ready to get in on the Viagra?

00:39:38.000 Is that what you're trying to tell me?

00:39:39.000 No, I'm just saying.

00:39:40.000 What are you trying to say?

00:39:45.000 Back to this Rhino thing, talking about...

00:39:49.000 Yeah, I just can't...

00:39:50.000 I just...

00:39:52.000 My head wants to blow up because I see all sides of it.

00:39:55.000 I do, but that's beautiful.

00:39:56.000 I think that's important.

00:39:58.000 The part I don't see...

00:39:59.000 The part I do not see, though, for me, is I don't...

00:40:03.000 I would never...

00:40:04.000 I don't have that desire.

00:40:06.000 To hunt one of those.

00:40:07.000 But so much of that kind of thing is, and it's hard for people that don't hunt to understand, so much of that kind of stuff comes from context.

00:40:14.000 You develop over time a deep context with an animal, and for me that familiarity and the hours you spend, the hours you log watching it, understanding it, reading about it, studying it, for me develops into something that produces a great desire to hunt the animal once I get to know it.

00:40:32.000 An animal that I don't know well I don't have that much desire to hunt for it.

00:40:39.000 But when I watch them and watch them and watch them, like bighorn sheep, when I moved to Montana, when I was born in Michigan, I didn't go out there being like, man, I cannot wait to hunt bighorn sheep.

00:40:49.000 But after spending years and years and years out glassing for deer, glassing for elk, glassing for bears, I'm like, bighorn, bighorn, bighorn.

00:40:57.000 And I really got to where I loved to watch bighorns.

00:41:00.000 I liked everything about bighorns.

00:41:01.000 And in time, I was like, man, I would someday love to have an opportunity to go hunt a bighorn.

00:41:06.000 And it was born from that.

00:41:08.000 So when I say that I have no desire to hunt a rhino, it would be to me like...

00:41:13.000 Hunting Martians. 0.99

00:41:13.000 I just don't have any familiarity with it. 0.99

00:41:18.000 Culturally, I haven't read about it my whole life.

00:41:20.000 When I go and look at calendars, hunters love wildlife calendars, and it's all the stuff we like to hunt.

00:41:26.000 You don't grow up looking at the rhino page on a hunting calendar.

00:41:30.000 I just have no context with it.

00:41:32.000 And this gentleman that bought this thing, I don't know.

00:41:36.000 I just don't know anything about him.

00:41:37.000 I'd love to talk to him.

00:41:38.000 He probably doesn't want to come on your podcast.

00:41:40.000 Yeah, I don't think he wants to.

00:41:43.000 But his name is Corey Knowlton.

00:41:47.000 And he's got a private security detail following around all the time now.

00:41:53.000 He's giving this interview with CNN. He's talking about the people who have threatened his kids because he has people threatening to kill him right now that I have to talk to the FBI and have my private security details.

00:42:05.000 Keep my children from being skinned alive and shot at.

00:42:08.000 A little hyperbole. 1.00

00:42:10.000 A lot of people are just talking shit. 1.00

00:42:11.000 I'm not going to kill your fucking kids, man. 1.00

00:42:13.000 They're not murderers. 1.00

00:42:13.000 But people get angry when they hear about someone hunting something as a trophy. 1.00

00:42:19.000 Absolutely.

00:42:20.000 I think that there's a big distinction between you wanting to hunt a bighorn sheep because you follow it and you study it. 1.00

00:42:27.000 But you eat the fucking sheep. 1.00

00:42:29.000 That's a difference, man. 1.00

00:42:31.000 There's something creepy about About wanting to shoot something just so you could stuff it and put it in your room.

00:42:37.000 Yeah, it's complicated.

00:42:39.000 It's complicated.

00:42:40.000 It's complicated.

00:42:41.000 It is.

00:42:41.000 It's like...

00:42:43.000 It would feel very... 1.00

00:42:46.000 If I did shoot the rhino, I would eat him. 0.99

00:42:49.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:42:51.000 There's no way I wouldn't eat them.

00:42:52.000 Are they edible?

00:42:53.000 They must be.

00:42:54.000 Oh yeah, I'm sure.

00:42:54.000 So they eat elephants.

00:42:55.000 I know that you shoot an elephant in the villagers.

00:42:58.000 They like that.

00:42:59.000 Friends of mine that have hunted in Africa kind of marvel at the rapidity with which, like how quickly the animals get hauled off and consumed.

00:43:13.000 They said it was like...

00:43:16.000 Not a lot of waste, you know.

00:43:17.000 And there's some animals that you look at and you think they'd be really good and they're not very popular.

00:43:20.000 And other animals that you'd look at and you wouldn't think would be that great, and they're really popular as table fare.

00:43:25.000 I don't know what the reputation of rhino is.

00:43:27.000 But elephants are popular as table fare.

00:43:28.000 People like the elephant a lot.

00:43:29.000 My problem with elephants is...

00:43:30.000 That's my understanding.

00:43:31.000 They're intelligent.

00:43:32.000 That bothers me.

00:43:33.000 Yeah?

00:43:34.000 Yeah.

00:43:35.000 Intelligent animals, it bothers me.

00:43:36.000 I have no desire to hunt one.

00:43:38.000 But again, I have no context.

00:43:39.000 And I don't really understand...

00:43:43.000 For me to go hunt something, I also have to know that it's sound, that it's in a safe position.

00:43:50.000 And one nice thing about living in the U.S., I mean, there's some exceptions to this, but generally in the U.S., if you want to be ethical about your hunting practices in the U.S., you can generally look to the guidance of your state fish and game agency.

00:44:04.000 I mean, a state fish and game agency can't get away with, I mean, theoretically can't get away with and Practically can't get away with running a species into the ground.

00:44:15.000 It would be big trouble for them.

00:44:17.000 So generally, if you're looking and you realize that there's a population of bighorns and there's a hunting season for them right now, it's...

00:44:28.000 It's okay.

00:44:29.000 I mean, it really is okay.

00:44:30.000 If they're finding a decline in that thing, they're going to curb it or cut it out all together and wait until it's growing again.

00:44:35.000 And then you can also look at their long-term goal of where they want animals, how many animals they think the area can support.

00:44:41.000 So it's easy in the U.S. because this stuff is watched so much.

00:44:44.000 Obviously, again, coming from a guy who doesn't spend any time in Africa, I know that in Africa, money talks in a way that it doesn't necessarily hear when it comes to small issues like wildlife.

00:44:55.000 You can buy your way into things that maybe you don't have any real ethical business.

00:44:59.000 Doing, you know.

00:45:00.000 In the U.S., it's just easier to kind of, there's a lot more information at our fingertips.

00:45:04.000 So for me, when I go hunting, I can really kind of read up and understand a lot about what I'm going after, where it's at, what the management goals are, what risks the animal has.

00:45:14.000 Is hunting it, you know, productive and helpful right now?

00:45:17.000 Is it potentially detrimental to the species?

00:45:20.000 And you can make your decisions.

00:45:22.000 It is amazing how good a job the Department of Fish and Game, or what is the actual group, what are they called?

00:45:28.000 Well, there's a state, so you have U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, which is a federal thing, and so they have a hand in managing migratory waterfowl, but most things are managed by, so every state has a, you know, you kind of like, just in general terms,

00:45:44.000 you'd call them fishing game, but it's like, in Michigan, it's the Michigan Department of Natural Resources.

00:45:49.000 In Montana, it's Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife, and Parks.

00:45:53.000 But just as a euphemism versus fishing game.

00:45:55.000 So, you know, every state, the Department of Environmental Conservation in New York, so every state has a different name, but it's a state department that sets hunting and fishing regulations.

00:46:07.000 And on these state departments would be big boards, and the people that set it will be biologists, various figures, different stakeholders.

00:46:16.000 So you'd have, like, representatives from the hunting community, representatives who are outside of the hunting community, We'll all come together and come to some level of cohesion and some level of, you know, they'll find a happy middle ground when they set their quotas.

00:46:30.000 And they often, I mean, they meet every year to determine what can be done and not done.

00:46:34.000 And they can control harvest a number of ways by issuing tags, shortening seasons, lengthening seasons.

00:46:40.000 You can, if you want to slow down a harvest, you might move the season away from the rut. 0.98

00:46:46.000 You know, if you want to pick up a harvest, kill females. 1.00

00:46:50.000 You know, if you want to bring a population down because of various factors like agricultural interests, auto insurers, you know, generally want deer numbers lower.

00:47:00.000 Agricultural interests generally want deer numbers lower.

00:47:05.000 Landscape people often want deer numbers lower.

00:47:07.000 So to kind of factor like their concerns and you got the concerns of people who want, hunters want more deer.

00:47:11.000 They want to see more deer around.

00:47:12.000 And you figure all this out and there's all these management tools to try to find a way, you know, to tweak things.

00:47:18.000 Another thing is predator control.

00:47:20.000 If you have a population that's really hurting, you go in there and do predator control in that area, and sometimes you can bring some animals back from the brink.

00:47:29.000 It's possible to lose isolated populations.

00:47:32.000 It's possible to have a mountain range, and you spend a few hundred thousand dollars, a million dollars, whatever, moving some bighorns in there, and you find that you're just getting hammered by lions, and you're going to lose all the sheep and lose your whole investment.

00:47:45.000 You might go in there and hit those lions a little bit, save them, so...

00:47:50.000 There's so many tools at their disposal.

00:47:52.000 In general, there are exceptions.

00:47:55.000 In general, I think that...

00:47:57.000 I'm always amazed at how well the state fish and game agencies do.

00:48:00.000 Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

00:48:01.000 It's probably one of the most efficient government agencies ever.

00:48:04.000 They're good.

00:48:05.000 And you know what?

00:48:05.000 The other thing about them is they don't get a lot of hard funding.

00:48:11.000 There's not many agencies that get so much of their funding...

00:48:15.000 From license sales.

00:48:17.000 So firearms taxes.

00:48:19.000 That's why there's a lot of conservation money out there right now because the gun businesses have been blowing up.

00:48:24.000 As people feel that their gun rights are under attack, they've been buying so many firearms, it puts money in the Pittman Robertson, I think it's called.

00:48:33.000 That goes to conservation stuff.

00:48:35.000 There's excise taxes on firearms, excise taxes on ammunition, excise taxes on sporting goods, all your license fees.

00:48:41.000 Every guy who ever hunts ducks or migratory birds has to buy a federal waterfowl stamp, state waterfowl stamp.

00:48:46.000 All this money plows in and creates money for conservation work, research.

00:48:51.000 And so these agencies are, in large measure, some more than others, are self-sustaining.

00:48:59.000 That's one of the funny things.

00:49:01.000 I know that you get annoyed by PETA as much as I do.

00:49:04.000 It's like, they're not spending the money on doing the stuff that hunters are.

00:49:10.000 Like, hunters are bankrolling so much of wildlife research and wildlife conservation.

00:49:14.000 And it's not just stuff that benefits the animals we're after, you know? 0.86

00:49:17.000 My problem with groups like PETA or the Animal Liberation Organization, the people that want to fucking save lobsters and rescue them from restaurants and throw them back into the ocean... 0.84

00:49:27.000 There's a lot of knee-jerk reactionary nonsense that's not based on the actual science of understanding the population of these animals. 0.98

00:49:33.000 That's what drives me crazy.

00:49:36.000 When people start getting angry at people hunting wolves, like this is a perfect example.

00:49:41.000 They've opened up wolf season now in a bunch of different places.

00:49:44.000 And the reason being is that people's livestock are getting decimated.

00:49:47.000 Elk populations are getting destroyed.

00:49:49.000 I mean, they have to move in to control it, but to a lot of animal rights people, all they see is bloodthirsty maniacs that want to kill beautiful wolves.

00:49:58.000 And they don't understand that, first of all, A, these wolves have been reintroduced to a lot of these areas, and then B, like, we're supposed to be the stewards of the land.

00:50:06.000 We're supposed to be the intelligent people that understand the numbers, and something has to be done about it.

00:50:10.000 This isn't something that people have decided, I'd like to kill a wolf, yeah, let's make it legal.

00:50:14.000 They're going, hey, we've got an issue.

00:50:16.000 What are you going to do?

00:50:17.000 Let's all meet.

00:50:18.000 Let's compare data.

00:50:19.000 Let's see what we got and see what we're going to do here.

00:50:22.000 Yeah, you get this idea like, oh, they've just one day decided to go and do it.

00:50:26.000 And I'm sure you have, on one level, you have individuals who are absolutely like, a guy opens up his regulation book.

00:50:33.000 He's like, well, I can buy a wolf tag this year.

00:50:34.000 That individual does not really need here.

00:50:38.000 That individual does not really need to understand.

00:50:40.000 It's nice if he does, but he doesn't need to understand the full picture because that individual is a tool.

00:50:46.000 Being used by managing agencies.

00:50:49.000 They're like, we need to get rid of some wolves.

00:50:51.000 We could bring back the days where we have government agents going out and gunning for them, or we could open it up and have people actually pay money.

00:51:02.000 We're good to go.

00:51:21.000 We're good to go.

00:51:34.000 To go out and do what we know needs to be done.

00:51:36.000 And in these cases, we're going to have to lower wolf numbers.

00:51:41.000 Not that no one is.

00:51:42.000 No one's arguing for a new extirpation of the wolf.

00:51:46.000 That would be in the worst interest of the managing agencies.

00:51:50.000 The last thing Wyoming would want now, they get the wolf delisted.

00:51:56.000 People are suing to stop the delisting.

00:51:58.000 Wyoming gets the wolf delisted.

00:51:59.000 They go under control.

00:52:00.000 No one in Wyoming in the government Would like to see wolves wiped out and put back on the endangered species list.

00:52:08.000 It'd be the worst thing that could possibly happen for them.

00:52:10.000 There's no interest to extirpate them.

00:52:12.000 No one's arguing for extirpation.

00:52:14.000 It's just bringing them into control because we are puppeteers.

00:52:21.000 There's a lot of people living here and you're really balancing a lot of interests.

00:52:28.000 Again, it's like Like, so much in life, you really have to take, before jumping into the stuff, the emotional stuff, you really have to take the time to look at the stuff.

00:52:36.000 It's a long, complicated issue.

00:52:39.000 It's long.

00:52:40.000 There's a lot of factors.

00:52:41.000 And we haven't even gotten into ballistics.

00:52:43.000 Ballistics?

00:52:44.000 No, I was trying to explain to you all the different calibers.

00:52:46.000 Oh, Jesus Christ.

00:52:48.000 No, I'm saying it's like the whole world of...

00:52:51.000 That's kind of why I love all this stuff, man.

00:52:53.000 It's like chess or something.

00:52:55.000 Well, there's new things to learn, that's for sure.

00:52:59.000 Long before I ever even thought about hunting...

00:53:03.000 I would see a beautiful deer and I'd be like, why would anybody kill that?

00:53:07.000 It's so cool to look at.

00:53:08.000 And then you see a few people hit them with cars.

00:53:12.000 And one time I was driving home, I was doing a gig in upstate New York, and I had to drive home like 30 miles an hour. 0.99

00:53:18.000 At the most because fucking deer were everywhere. 0.99

00:53:21.000 It was madness. 0.99

00:53:22.000 It was in the middle of the summer and I've never seen more.

00:53:25.000 I don't think I'd ever seen more than like two deer my whole life until this day. 0.98

00:53:29.000 And then I'm driving home from this gig and it was fucking madness. 0.97

00:53:33.000 It was upstate New York. 0.98

00:53:34.000 Was it November?

00:53:36.000 I want to say it was the summer, but it was so long ago, I don't really know.

00:53:40.000 They were out and about. 0.98

00:53:42.000 Fucking madness, just jumping in front of the car, left and right. 0.99

00:53:44.000 You see them on the side of the highway. 1.00

00:53:46.000 And you see one get plastered by a truck and it opens up and you're like, that thing's made of meat!

00:53:50.000 Yeah.

00:53:51.000 I had no idea!

00:53:52.000 They were exploding.

00:53:53.000 I mean, I saw at least four of them that had exploded and wrecked cars, and it was one of the craziest things I'd ever seen in my life.

00:54:01.000 I don't know why there's so many of them in this one particular area of upstate New York, but it was really an infestation.

00:54:09.000 Yeah.

00:54:09.000 People are so whacked out, too.

00:54:10.000 Like, in some of those areas in the Northeast, there's so many deer, and they're kind of like, well, maybe we can hire...

00:54:16.000 We'll get snipers to go out at night and shoot them, or we'll give them, you know, we'll put the deer on birth control.

00:54:22.000 Yeah. 0.98

00:54:22.000 Meanwhile, I got all these dudes being like, I got a great, I know the perfect way. 0.98

00:54:27.000 We'll open up, you know, a suburban, urban bow hunt.

00:54:30.000 People will pay to come out and do this.

00:54:31.000 Like, no, we'd rather pay.

00:54:32.000 I think, I remember reading this one thing that came out, I don't know what it was.

00:54:35.000 Like, by the time they did this deer, this town wanted to lower its deer population.

00:54:38.000 It was all said and done.

00:54:39.000 They had, you know, like a thousand or more dollars into each deer they got rid of.

00:54:45.000 Well, it's going on right now in the Hamptons.

00:54:47.000 Do you know what's going on in the Hamptons?

00:54:49.000 Massive overpopulation of deer.

00:54:51.000 So they're hiring snipers.

00:54:52.000 They're going to put suppressors on these guns and go in the middle of the night.

00:54:56.000 They're going to hunt at night so that people don't have to experience it or freak out. 1.00

00:54:59.000 And they're going to shoot these fucking deer because there's so many of them. 1.00

00:55:02.000 And then the other argument was, let's get them on birth control. 1.00

00:55:05.000 They're going to spend $350,000 to give fucking deer birth control. 1.00

00:55:10.000 Like, what are you talking about? 1.00

00:55:12.000 This is...

00:55:12.000 There was a TV show about this.

00:55:14.000 Well, it's all to prevent the harrowing experience that might happen to someone should they wake up in the morning and realize and see a deer run into their yard and tip over because it had a arrow in it.

00:55:24.000 And as upsetting as that would be, it's so much better to go out and just at night, quietly, snipe them off, you know, clean it all up.

00:55:33.000 There's a video of this happening in some other country of...

00:55:37.000 They showed these, um, that was a joke.

00:55:40.000 That video, lions released to deal with the deer population.

00:55:43.000 That was, that was like the onion.

00:55:45.000 Was it? 1.00

00:55:45.000 Jamie's Googling shit. 1.00

00:55:46.000 Yeah, it's the onion, you fuck. 1.00

00:55:48.000 It was one of those fake onions. 1.00

00:55:50.000 There's a bunch of onions now, fake onion.

00:55:53.000 You know, the onion, if you don't know, is a parody website.

00:55:55.000 There's a bunch of fake ones that aren't nearly as good at, like, being obvious.

00:55:59.000 But they're so fake that they say the onion on them?

00:56:02.000 No, no, no.

00:56:02.000 Oh, okay.

00:56:03.000 No.

00:56:03.000 They're just like national blah, blah, blah report.

00:56:06.000 But they're bullshit. 1.00

00:56:07.000 They're bullshit. 1.00

00:56:07.000 Like one of them had a report of the day that Colorado legalized marijuana. 1.00

00:56:12.000 37 people died of an overdose.

00:56:14.000 Oh, yeah. 0.99

00:56:14.000 Fucking, I can't tell you how many people sent me that. 0.99

00:56:16.000 I'm like, marijuana's not toxic, you dummies. 1.00

00:56:19.000 Like you'd literally have to smoke 1,500 pounds of marijuana in 30 minutes to die.

00:56:23.000 It's not killing anybody.

00:56:24.000 Stop.

00:56:25.000 But these people, you know, they read this online and they think it's true.

00:56:28.000 There's been a gang of those.

00:56:31.000 Yeah, has anyone ever died?

00:56:32.000 Like, have you ever heard?

00:56:34.000 No one ever dies from marijuana.

00:56:35.000 It's not possible.

00:56:37.000 You physically wouldn't be able to smoke enough to kill yourself.

00:56:41.000 The LD50, like, we actually were talking about LD50s.

00:56:47.000 That means lethal dose at 50%, lethal dose at 50%.

00:56:51.000 Oh, I gotcha.

00:56:51.000 I've heard that term.

00:56:52.000 You know, because my brother works in...

00:56:55.000 His work involves a little bit, not the use of, but the understanding of herbicides and pesticides.

00:57:00.000 I feel like he talks about LD50s on pesticides.

00:57:02.000 Yeah.

00:57:04.000 Marijuana is so high it's insane.

00:57:06.000 But there's a lot of things that have really low LD50s.

00:57:08.000 Ecstasy, for instance.

00:57:10.000 Like if you take, I think it's 10 or 15 times the effective dose of MDMA, you're dead.

00:57:16.000 Yeah.

00:57:19.000 If you're a 200 pound man, you eat 10 ounces of salt, you're a goner.

00:57:22.000 Is that right?

00:57:23.000 Yeah.

00:57:23.000 That's not much.

00:57:24.000 But think of how upset your body gets when you're snorkeling or something.

00:57:28.000 And you get a couple gulps.

00:57:29.000 Oh, yeah.

00:57:30.000 Just you start retching.

00:57:31.000 Yeah, salt water.

00:57:33.000 That's a miserable feeling.

00:57:34.000 Well, it's also, if you want to, you know, if you have like some sort of a bowel issue and you want to clean out the old pipes, a little bit of, take some Epsom salts and some water, just a couple of tablespoons, gargle it and shove it down the pipe and it'll be like a broken fire.

00:57:49.000 Is that right?

00:57:49.000 Oh, my goodness.

00:57:51.000 It's unbelievable.

00:57:53.000 It's very effective.

00:57:54.000 I used to wash when I was, I got this job when I was 13. Washing dishes at a summer camp.

00:58:01.000 I was washing dishes for campers that were older than I was.

00:58:05.000 And there's a cook there, David S., I'll say.

00:58:11.000 And one day, he drank iced tea, and I put a bunch of salt in his iced tea to mess with him.

00:58:16.000 So he'd sip it, and he'd be like, salt, and he'd spit it out.

00:58:18.000 As retribution, he comes up behind me and kind of puts me in a lock and grabs my forehead and tips my head back.

00:58:27.000 And fills my mouth with poured salt.

00:58:31.000 Yeah.

00:58:32.000 Wow.

00:58:32.000 Gave me some sores, made me throw up.

00:58:34.000 That's dangerous.

00:58:35.000 Yeah.

00:58:35.000 He probably didn't know that you could die.

00:58:37.000 David S. That fuck. 1.00

00:58:39.000 Where are you, Dave? 1.00

00:58:40.000 Dave S. I'll tell you the name of the camp.

00:58:43.000 Camp Pendaluon.

00:58:44.000 Where's that at?

00:58:45.000 West Michigan.

00:58:46.000 Is it still open?

00:58:48.000 Yeah, I have no idea.

00:58:49.000 I don't know why it wouldn't be. 0.99

00:58:50.000 Camps are fucking little, they're little like breeding grounds for criminals. 0.99

00:58:54.000 When I was a kid, I went to Boy Scout camp for two weeks. 1.00

00:58:57.000 It was just a bunch of inner city kids from Boston, alone in the woods with very little, very little guidance. 0.76

00:59:03.000 Like Lord of the Flies.

00:59:04.000 It was dangerous, man.

00:59:06.000 By three days in, I was there for two weeks. 0.98

00:59:09.000 By three days in, I realized, like, this is fucking dangerous. 0.99

00:59:13.000 You have to keep your eyes open in the middle of the night because it was dark as shit. 0.99

00:59:16.000 And kids were getting up in the middle of the night and tying kids to their beds and then leaving them in the woods, like dragging them out while they were sleeping. 0.96

00:59:23.000 They would wake up screaming alone in the dark, like in the woods. 0.99

00:59:28.000 There's no predators or anything in New Hampshire, but it was fucking... 0.98

00:59:31.000 No, it still brings out a... 0.99

00:59:34.000 The ruthlessness of youngsters.

00:59:35.000 Yeah, so there was all these activities.

00:59:37.000 I just hid and went fishing every day.

00:59:39.000 So you were in the Boy Scouts?

00:59:41.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:59:41.000 I got up in the morning and just said, fuck all your fucking plans. 1.00

00:59:45.000 I'm going fishing. 1.00

00:59:46.000 I just took my fishing rod and vanished.

00:59:47.000 And they didn't care.

00:59:48.000 As long as I was back at the end of the day, they didn't even know I was gone.

00:59:51.000 Like, no one knew.

00:59:52.000 I did the archery things, and then I went and fished.

00:59:55.000 And that's it.

00:59:56.000 I remember, you know, I work at...

00:59:59.000 I'm on the mass edit outside of the magazine and they're telling me that the most letter-generating article they ever ran was an article that was deemed to be critical of the Boy Scouts because there had been a number of catastrophes that had happened to Boy Scouts at scout camp.

01:00:21.000 Like a handful of things.

01:00:23.000 There was a lightning strike.

01:00:24.000 There was a drowning incident.

01:00:26.000 There's more things in there.

01:00:27.000 It kind of ran this article like Is your kid safe at Boy Scout camp?

01:00:32.000 And it really riled the organization up.

01:00:35.000 I think they were telling me I want to be the number one letter generating thing ever.

01:00:40.000 Well, they don't want to face the reality of the situation.

01:00:42.000 It's not 100% safe.

01:00:44.000 If you're going camping, it's not 100% safe.

01:00:48.000 Most likely, you're going to be fine.

01:00:49.000 Statistically, you're probably going to be fine. 0.99

01:00:51.000 But when you've got a bunch of inner city kids and they have fucking bows and arrows and pocket knives and they're wandering through the woods... 0.99

01:00:57.000 And there's only like three counselors. 0.99

01:00:59.000 There was like 30 fucking kids and three people watching us. 1.00

01:01:02.000 There was a lot of shit going on, man. 1.00

01:01:04.000 You know, they tried to wake... 1.00

01:01:05.000 They grabbed me in the middle of the night, but I woke up.

01:01:07.000 And I screamed, and I jumped out of bed, and they let me go.

01:01:10.000 And then there was just a bunch of little inner-city thugs.

01:01:13.000 And I was young.

01:01:14.000 I was probably like...

01:01:16.000 At the time, maybe 12, maybe 13, somewhere along. 0.99

01:01:19.000 But there was other kids that were like 16 and 17, and they were the ones that were doing shit. 0.97

01:01:23.000 And they were, you know, they were the Eagle Scouts. 0.99

01:01:25.000 They were the older fucking weirdos that had done this many times. 0.98

01:01:28.000 They had been camping three or four years in a row, and they were looking forward to it. 0.99

01:01:33.000 They were the warlords, man.

01:01:35.000 They covered your clothes with toothpaste.

01:01:37.000 Toothpaste doesn't come out of your clothes. 1.00

01:01:39.000 Try washing toothpaste out of your fucking clothes. 1.00

01:01:40.000 I don't know what you're talking about. 1.00

01:01:41.000 I dribble.

01:01:42.000 I dribble.

01:01:43.000 I have like, you know, vertical toothpaste. 0.98

01:01:45.000 They would fucking squirt it all over people's clothes and mash them together and throw it back in. 0.94

01:01:50.000 And you pull your clothes out and they're covered with toothpaste. 0.99

01:01:51.000 It was brutal.

01:01:52.000 Just a bunch of little criminals alone in the woods with very little supervision.

01:01:56.000 My old man was involved, was real heavily involved in We're good to go.

01:02:07.000 We're good to go.

01:02:20.000 It'd be great stuff, you know?

01:02:21.000 But on one hand, like, I could go over and we could do, like, knot tying and stuff like that.

01:02:25.000 Or I could go out deer hunting with my dad.

01:02:26.000 And so, like, he always, like, would kind of trump, you know, you could do, like, the way cool stuff.

01:02:31.000 So I never got involved in it.

01:02:32.000 But it was great for him because he was born, like, an inner city kid, you know?

01:02:37.000 And didn't like that.

01:02:38.000 He was born an inner city kid and wanted to somehow be out in the woods.

01:02:41.000 And for him, it was a perfect avenue into it.

01:02:43.000 But then for me, it was like a, you know...

01:02:46.000 You couldn't do as cool stuff doing that as I could hang out with my dad and his friends and his kids, so I never got really involved in it.

01:02:53.000 When I was in high school, I don't remember the kid's name, but someone wrote a really cool article, one of the kids in my school, about Boy Scouts, about the problem with the code of the Boy Scouts, because one of them was keeping your thoughts clean.

01:03:10.000 Was that right?

01:03:10.000 Yeah.

01:03:11.000 I forget the exact one.

01:03:12.000 Let's put up Boy Scout code.

01:03:15.000 So you get to thinking about something and you're like, man, I shouldn't be thinking about that.

01:03:18.000 That never works.

01:03:20.000 This guy was the guy who wrote this. 0.99

01:03:23.000 I remember reading this as I was a high school student going, this guy's got a really good fucking point. 0.99

01:03:28.000 The point was like, what do you give a fuck what I think? 0.99

01:03:31.000 Why are you trying to control my thoughts? 0.99

01:03:33.000 I'm not hurting anybody.

01:03:34.000 I might think something crazy and deviant, but I'm not doing it.

01:03:37.000 As long as I'm not doing it, why am I supposed to keep my thoughts pure? 0.85

01:03:41.000 Maybe it's fun for me to entertain ridiculous thoughts.

01:03:44.000 I know, because that's kind of like what self-control is.

01:03:47.000 Self-control doesn't speak to the ideas you entertain.

01:03:52.000 Self-control speaks to...

01:03:53.000 You get an email, and you're like, I'm going to write a really mean email back.

01:03:58.000 And it's so fun to imagine what you're saying to me in email.

01:04:01.000 You're like, I'm going to put it off.

01:04:02.000 And tomorrow you write a regular email and that is supposed to be adult behavior.

01:04:06.000 Exactly.

01:04:08.000 Control.

01:04:09.000 Controlling your actions. 1.00

01:04:11.000 You see someone who's an asshole in the car and you want to pull him out of the car and beat him to death. 1.00

01:04:15.000 But you don't. 1.00

01:04:16.000 You don't do anything.

01:04:17.000 You just go...

01:04:18.000 Yeah, and you drive down and you're like, yeah, I would pull his fingernails out.

01:04:23.000 I'd sew his eyes open and throw salt on him and make him stare at the sun.

01:04:27.000 I never go there.

01:04:28.000 I just go to bone breaking right away.

01:04:31.000 Snap someone's arm.

01:04:32.000 They don't want to fight back.

01:04:34.000 Yeah.

01:04:34.000 Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, reverent.

01:04:41.000 A scout is reverent towards God.

01:04:44.000 He is faithful in his religious duties.

01:04:46.000 He respects the belief of others.

01:04:48.000 Yeah, here's the big one.

01:04:49.000 Clean.

01:04:50.000 A scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean.

01:04:54.000 That was the one that this guy had a problem with. 1.00

01:04:56.000 I remember reading that and going, yeah, the fucking Boy Scouts are silly. 1.00

01:05:00.000 This kid's right. 1.00

01:05:02.000 But that's not what the fucking scouts were. 0.99

01:05:04.000 It wasn't when I was in the scouts. 0.99

01:05:04.000 When you were in there. 0.99

01:05:06.000 I went to, my branch was in Jamaica Plain, which is not a very nice part of Boston.

01:05:13.000 It's become more gentrified now, but in the early, late 70s, I guess it was 80, 1979 or 80 when I was in it. 0.97

01:05:22.000 It was fucking creeps. 0.82

01:05:23.000 What pushed you to get involved in it? 0.98

01:05:25.000 I mean, what was your, like, you wanted to get out?

01:05:27.000 No.

01:05:27.000 I mean, I liked fishing, and I liked outdoor stuff.

01:05:30.000 I was always into doing stuff in the outdoors, and I did a lot of fishing.

01:05:33.000 I was always fishing.

01:05:34.000 So it was like a good avenue.

01:05:35.000 Yeah.

01:05:36.000 Perceived as a good avenue to get out and explore.

01:05:37.000 I just thought it'd be fun, something to do.

01:05:39.000 I'd love to be an Eagle Scout.

01:05:40.000 I thought it'd be a cool thing to be an Eagle Scout, you know?

01:05:42.000 But then once I got in... 0.98

01:05:43.000 I was cool with the scouts until we went camping, and then I was like, get the fuck out of here, and then I was done. 0.99

01:05:48.000 You got terrorized. 0.99

01:05:49.000 I was so sad, too.

01:05:50.000 I miss my parents so bad. 0.99

01:05:51.000 I remember the first time I'd ever been away for like two weeks by myself, a bunch of fucking criminals in the woods. 0.99

01:05:56.000 I came home, I was so happy. 0.98

01:05:58.000 I used to get, I can't even imagine now, man.

01:06:00.000 I used to get homesick when I was a kid.

01:06:01.000 Yeah.

01:06:02.000 I get the opposite of homesick now, you know what I mean?

01:06:04.000 But yeah, I used to get homesick as a kid.

01:06:05.000 Well, do you find, like, I find, I travel so much that when I'm home for a couple weeks, I'm like, okay, already.

01:06:11.000 Okay.

01:06:11.000 Yeah.

01:06:12.000 What's next?

01:06:13.000 I try not to be that, you know, I try not to, but yeah, you do, you get used to a certain momentum, you know, and you get home for a while.

01:06:20.000 My wife will sometimes point out, she's like, you haven't even been home a week and I can tell you, you know.

01:06:25.000 Well, I don't get, the one way I don't get that way is with my kids.

01:06:29.000 Like, I never want to leave my kids.

01:06:30.000 And whenever I go, like, anywhere, like on vacation, the thing that, or on a trip to work, the thing that always gets me is I hate leaving my kids.

01:06:39.000 I don't like leaving them.

01:06:41.000 But my wife? 0.99

01:06:43.000 I don't mind leaving her at all.

01:06:44.000 I love her, but I think it's good. 0.99

01:06:46.000 I think it's good to get the fuck away from people. 0.99

01:06:48.000 But just not little kids. 0.99

01:06:50.000 But if it was just me and my wife, I'd be fucking vacationing. 0.95

01:06:54.000 I mean, I'd be working. 0.99

01:06:56.000 I'd say vacation.

01:06:57.000 This is the wrong term.

01:06:58.000 It's going places.

01:06:59.000 It makes me appreciate her more.

01:07:01.000 It makes me appreciate my friends more, too.

01:07:03.000 I think there's a balance.

01:07:05.000 And I think when you're around someone all the time, you don't appreciate them as much as when you go away, you miss them, and then you come back.

01:07:11.000 I feel that's true for me.

01:07:16.000 I've got to watch what I say because I can't imagine.

01:07:18.000 I'm trying to picture if my wife's going to listen. 0.91

01:07:21.000 She's busy all the time, but I never know.

01:07:23.000 She might get a free minute.

01:07:24.000 Someone might tell her about it.

01:07:25.000 That's the real problem. 1.00

01:07:26.000 Those are the fucking tattletales. 1.00

01:07:27.000 One of those little bitches she goes to the gym with. 1.00

01:07:29.000 I just want to say, though, I love my wife so much. 1.00

01:07:35.000 If my wife's listening, you're my favorite person ever.

01:07:39.000 Yeah, but I think that there's a balance.

01:07:44.000 Part of the balance is appreciating things when you're not there.

01:07:48.000 When you're gone, you appreciate them.

01:07:50.000 You know what?

01:07:50.000 My wife was annoyed with me recently.

01:07:52.000 I discovered this Waylon Jennings song called Freedom to Stay.

01:07:55.000 It's like this dude, the narrator, Waylon.

01:07:59.000 You know, it begins where he's got his backpack and he ties his bandana on, you know, and he goes to the door and this woman's sleeping.

01:08:05.000 And he's going to go off and roam around, you know, and be a vagrant.

01:08:09.000 And he realizes that everything he wants is here.

01:08:12.000 And the refrain is kind of like, you gave me the freedom to go my own way, which gave me the freedom to stay.

01:08:21.000 And she got annoyed at you?

01:08:22.000 No, because I keep singing it to her and telling her how it's our song, you know.

01:08:26.000 laughter She liberated me from my desire to be a wanderer.

01:08:33.000 Oh, that's funny.

01:08:34.000 Well, you know, you live a very strange life for someone to be married to you.

01:08:38.000 I mean, you're constantly gone away hunting.

01:08:41.000 Yeah, I'm gone a lot.

01:08:42.000 And you also are gone in places where you don't get any cell phone service. 0.99

01:08:46.000 You're in the fucking mountains. 0.99

01:08:48.000 You're off in Alaska. 1.00

01:08:49.000 You're in New Zealand.

01:08:51.000 You're in these places where you're gone and you come back with this dead animal in a cooler.

01:08:57.000 My wife always asks, where were you?

01:09:00.000 Who had gone?

01:09:01.000 Who was with you?

01:09:02.000 Did you get anything?

01:09:05.000 And she usually likes to ask after I get back.

01:09:07.000 She often doesn't ask when I'm going, but when I get back, she likes to know those things.

01:09:12.000 My three-year-old wants to know what I kapowed.

01:09:14.000 Kapowed.

01:09:15.000 And if we're going to eat it now, he always wants to know that.

01:09:18.000 Right.

01:09:20.000 Yeah, I have a very nice existence.

01:09:27.000 I get to spend a lot of time going to fantastic places and doing cool stuff.

01:09:32.000 It's a very unusual life for a hunter that you've managed to figure out how to make a living doing that.

01:09:36.000 I know because I used to think I would make a living.

01:09:39.000 I thought I'd make a living doing...

01:09:41.000 I knew I wanted to make a living hunting when I was a kid.

01:09:46.000 I wanted to be a professional hunter.

01:09:47.000 So I trapped for a long time and got sold for...

01:09:51.000 Got really heavily involved in trapping and took lessons in trapping, read everything about trapping.

01:09:57.000 I was going to be a professional trapper.

01:09:58.000 The fur prices were so low when I quit trapping that it just wasn't going to happen.

01:10:02.000 And then I hit on this idea that I would write about that kind of stuff instead.

01:10:09.000 And so writing was kind of my plan B. But yeah, I thought that I would just live out...

01:10:14.000 When I was a kid, I had this dream or this fantasy that I would just live out in the woods.

01:10:20.000 Never talk to anybody and hunt.

01:10:23.000 And now I kind of make my living communicating.

01:10:26.000 The one thing that wasn't in my plan was I wasn't going to communicate.

01:10:30.000 Well, that's really funny because you're good at it.

01:10:32.000 And the fact that the writing came about in order to make it so that you can make a living hunting.

01:10:41.000 You're a really good writer, man.

01:10:43.000 Meat Eater's a great book.

01:10:44.000 Yeah, I enjoy it.

01:10:46.000 I remember when I was in 10th grade, I had this English teacher, Mr. Heaton, and I had written an essay.

01:10:53.000 I had written like a comparison contrast paper about Melville and Faulkner or something.

01:10:57.000 I can't remember what.

01:10:59.000 And for the English class, and he said, I'm going to submit your essay to a writing contest.

01:11:03.000 And I forbade him from doing it.

01:11:05.000 I can't even imagine why, but I told him I wasn't going to do that.

01:11:07.000 I didn't want to be in the contest.

01:11:09.000 But he sent it anyways, and then won second place.

01:11:11.000 And when I got this letter that I had to go to this awards ceremony, it mentioned a cash prize.

01:11:16.000 And I was super excited.

01:11:17.000 It was supposed to be $250 or something.

01:11:19.000 We go down there and the gal that won, the event was at this place called the Fronthal Center in Muskegon, Michigan.

01:11:25.000 The gal that won goes up and gets a check. 1.00

01:11:28.000 And then I go up and they give me a thesaurus.

01:11:31.000 And I was just like bummed.

01:11:33.000 So I thought I got $250.

01:11:35.000 And I was like visibly bummed.

01:11:37.000 And Mr. Heaton had come to the awards ceremony with me and he said something I'll never forget.

01:11:43.000 He's like...

01:11:45.000 There's far more than $250 worth of words in that book.

01:11:51.000 That was kind of my genesis as a writer.

01:11:54.000 Was the idea that the book is worth $250?

01:11:56.000 No, he meant that if you can capture...

01:11:58.000 No, not his point.

01:11:59.000 You thought you were going to get $250.

01:12:01.000 No, they just changed.

01:12:03.000 The budget wasn't what it was.

01:12:04.000 I never had a satisfactory answer to why I didn't get $250.

01:12:09.000 But I went there wanting my check and come out with this book.

01:12:12.000 I still have that thesaurus.

01:12:13.000 Do you really?

01:12:14.000 Yeah.

01:12:14.000 Oh, that's funny.

01:12:15.000 Yeah, I keep it in my box of, like, special stuff.

01:12:18.000 How did you wind up doing The Wild Within?

01:12:20.000 That was how I found out about you.

01:12:22.000 You were on a show on the Travel Channel.

01:12:24.000 It was called The Wild Within.

01:12:25.000 It was an interesting show.

01:12:26.000 The first episode I ever watched, you were going to take the same route that Lewis and Clark took, and you shot a moose and turned it into a boat.

01:12:35.000 Made a bull boat out of a buffalo.

01:12:36.000 Was it a buffalo?

01:12:37.000 That's what it was.

01:12:38.000 Yeah.

01:12:38.000 You shot it with a musket, too, right?

01:12:40.000 I mean, do you want, like, the show business story about how I did...

01:12:42.000 What made you decide to be on TV? I would periodically, as a writer, I would periodically get called by producers and developers about stuff I had written.

01:12:55.000 Or they would kind of summon you.

01:12:56.000 You might get a phone call or you get an email, not a phone call, an email through a magazine or whatever and realize that some guy at History Channel wants you to come down and what they do is they're desk-bound individuals and they're obligated to Going to these meetings,

01:13:14.000 you know, and have, like, some ideas.

01:13:16.000 And so when they're putting together their portfolio of ideas, they would like to go contact writers or people who are out doing interesting stuff in the hinterlands, you know, and come in and kind of report about what's exciting at the time.

01:13:27.000 And I'd gone to a number of these meetings over the years about stories I had written, and every time you get the email, you're like, oh, my God, I'm going to be on TV, and it would never work out.

01:13:35.000 But eventually I signed a development agreement after I wrote my first book.

01:13:43.000 Scavenger's Guide to Oat Cuisine, which I just got the rights back to.

01:13:47.000 There's so few of those books out there, they sell on Amazon for like $130.

01:13:51.000 Really?

01:13:53.000 Miramax, their wine scene company, just gave me my rights back.

01:13:58.000 Wow.

01:13:59.000 In a move that would benefit them in no way whatsoever, just out of the goodness of their hearts, gave me the rights to my book back.

01:14:05.000 Why'd they do that?

01:14:09.000 As much as people like to talk about Harvey Weinstein being the worst guy on the planet...

01:14:14.000 I don't know that.

01:14:15.000 I know that his company just gave me my books rights back.

01:14:17.000 Didn't even try to get money out of them, he just gave them to me.

01:14:20.000 I've never heard he's the worst guy on the planet.

01:14:21.000 A lot of people tell horror stories, you know.

01:14:23.000 I've never heard any horror stories.

01:14:25.000 No.

01:14:25.000 I don't have any.

01:14:26.000 There's a great book, or a great documentary, detailing a horror story that he dealt with.

01:14:32.000 Oh, is that right?

01:14:33.000 Yeah, it's called Overnight.

01:14:35.000 Oh! 0.60

01:14:35.000 Have you seen that? 0.60

01:14:36.000 That's a great movie. 1.00

01:14:36.000 It's a fucking great movie. 1.00

01:14:38.000 Yeah, and that guy was to blame in that thing. 1.00

01:14:40.000 Oh, fuck yeah. 1.00

01:14:41.000 Yeah, that guy... 1.00

01:14:42.000 The cover of it is him holding the camera to his head.

01:14:45.000 That's a phenomenal movie.

01:14:47.000 Folks who don't know, if you haven't seen it, it's about the producer, writer, whatever, of Boondock Saints. 0.99

01:14:56.000 Terrible fucking movie, by the way. 0.99

01:14:58.000 Don't you dare tell me that's good. 1.00

01:14:59.000 No, I won't.

01:15:00.000 Not you. 1.00

01:15:01.000 Whoever you are out there, you fucking freaks that like that. 1.00

01:15:04.000 People have told me that's good, and then I watched it, and I made it 20 minutes in. 1.00

01:15:08.000 I was like, this is a piece of shit. 1.00

01:15:10.000 This is a terrible movie. 1.00

01:15:11.000 I didn't know anything about the history.

01:15:12.000 I watched it after the documentary.

01:15:14.000 I was like, I watched it, I'm like, man, I gotta go see this movie.

01:15:16.000 But it only validates the movie.

01:15:19.000 You know what it came out of?

01:15:21.000 It came out of Pulp Fiction.

01:15:22.000 There's this whole breed of this genre that came out of Pulp Fiction. 0.98

01:15:28.000 But what they don't understand, Pulp Fiction is a fucking genius movie from a genius movie maker. 1.00

01:15:36.000 I mean, Quentin Tarantino is a bad motherfucker. 0.99

01:15:39.000 Dude, when I went to see that movie, it felt like... 0.99

01:15:42.000 Like, like, like, something came down from the heavens and touched my forehead.

01:15:46.000 I had never seen anything like it.

01:15:47.000 I didn't know anything about, like, cool movies, man.

01:15:50.000 I was blown away.

01:15:51.000 But it's so complex, and there's so many layers to it, and the timeline switched around.

01:15:56.000 I mean, it's, it's a genius work of film. 1.00

01:15:59.000 And then this fucking dummy came along and decided to make this shoot-em-up, and there's gonna be, why, fuck you, fucking, fucking, fuck, fuck, fucking, bang, bang, bang. 1.00

01:16:08.000 And it's just an assault on your intelligence. 1.00

01:16:11.000 It's shit. 1.00

01:16:13.000 And I just thought it was a piece of shit. 1.00

01:16:14.000 And then I watched this documentary on the guy who made it, and I was like, oh. 1.00

01:16:18.000 And being out here...

01:16:20.000 It's a great job.

01:16:20.000 I don't even know anything about the guy that made that movie.

01:16:22.000 It's a great job in that movie.

01:16:23.000 Yeah, well, I mean, the people who made it...

01:16:25.000 Like the guy who ever made it overnight.

01:16:27.000 Like, it was just a phenomenal job.

01:16:28.000 Well, the guys who made it were the guys who were involved with him in the beginning.

01:16:33.000 Oh, really?

01:16:33.000 Yeah, they were documenting this rise to fame.

01:16:36.000 They were supposed to be documenting this guy who worked at a bar.

01:16:39.000 Harvey Weinstein signs him to this gigantic deal and buys the bar.

01:16:43.000 And they're going to own the bar together and make giant movies together.

01:16:45.000 They just were convinced that this guy was brilliant.

01:16:47.000 Meanwhile, he's saying anti-Semitic stuff.

01:16:50.000 His ego.

01:16:52.000 The documentary is about ego.

01:16:54.000 And if you're a person who's planning on any sort of a career in show business, I think it's a must-watch.

01:17:02.000 Because I've seen those people.

01:17:04.000 I've never met him, but I've seen a hundred guys like him that didn't make it. 1.00

01:17:08.000 I've met a hundred of those guys that were convinced that they're the baddest motherfuckers. 0.99

01:17:16.000 I've met those guys. 1.00

01:17:18.000 I've met so many of them.

01:17:19.000 And acting and the film business breeds them.

01:17:23.000 Somehow or another.

01:17:24.000 The idea of acting, first of all, is responsible for a lot of disproportionate egos.

01:17:32.000 Egos that are not based on anything realistic. 0.99

01:17:35.000 They're just based on your ability to pretend.

01:17:37.000 And then, not even based on you being really good at pretending sometimes, but you being famous for pretending.

01:17:42.000 And these people, just because the camera's on them and people pay attention to them, have these enormous, insane egos.

01:17:49.000 I've seen it on sitcom sets.

01:17:51.000 I've seen it in movies.

01:17:52.000 I've seen the actors.

01:17:54.000 I've seen the madness.

01:17:56.000 The reality of life escapes them.

01:18:01.000 They are insulated from it completely.

01:18:03.000 And they live in this world where...

01:18:06.000 The camera's on them, and they have this idea that because the camera's on them, they must be special.

01:18:12.000 So because they're special, but there's no ego check.

01:18:15.000 Yeah, I understand.

01:18:16.000 You know, to get...

01:18:17.000 Okay, to put it in the honey terms.

01:18:21.000 Please, please.

01:18:22.000 Please, okay.

01:18:24.000 If you're going to go after a very difficult animal to track, okay?

01:18:29.000 Say if you're going to go after...

01:18:31.000 Himalayan tar. 0.99

01:18:33.000 You're going to fucking climb through the mountains. 0.99

01:18:35.000 It's an incredibly difficult task. 0.99

01:18:38.000 It takes a long time to get there.

01:18:39.000 You might not see one for days.

01:18:41.000 When you finally do see one...

01:18:42.000 This mule deer, this skull that's on the table is a perfect example.

01:18:46.000 You and I hiked around for days.

01:18:49.000 We walked seven hours a day.

01:18:51.000 We worked our asses off, man.

01:18:52.000 It's a haul.

01:18:53.000 So when that thing actually...

01:18:54.000 When I actually shot it and it dropped and then we brought it back, it was like...

01:18:59.000 Wow!

01:18:59.000 We did it!

01:19:00.000 We did something!

01:19:01.000 Whereas if that thing was in a pen, and I walked up and shot it in the face, I would have zero feeling of accomplishment. 0.56

01:19:09.000 Well, acting is a lot like shooting an animal in the face. 0.82

01:19:12.000 It's a lot like shooting a penned up animal in the face. 0.91

01:19:15.000 You're not really some special person. 1.00

01:19:17.000 You're just someone who's crazy, so you're good at pretending. 0.75

01:19:21.000 Because you don't really have a self-identity, so your self-identity can be manipulated or your personality can be manipulated in a role. 0.97

01:19:30.000 What you're saying has validity because you act.

01:19:32.000 I have.

01:19:33.000 I have acted.

01:19:34.000 I avoid it for that very reason.

01:19:36.000 Oh, really? 0.98

01:19:36.000 Because I feel like those people are sick. 0.98

01:19:39.000 I feel like there's something about that occupation where you pretend to be like...

01:19:44.000 You know how many people I've met that play tough guys in movies so they think they're tough guys?

01:19:48.000 Yeah, yeah. 1.00

01:19:48.000 They're fucking... 1.00

01:19:50.000 It's crazy. 1.00

01:19:50.000 I've met so many of them. 1.00

01:19:52.000 It's a sick way to make a living.

01:19:56.000 Some people pull it off and they become really sensitive people like Henry Winkler, the Fonz. 0.99

01:20:02.000 One of the nicest fucking guys I've ever met. 0.97

01:20:05.000 I'll tell you, I've heard that from multiple people. 0.99

01:20:07.000 He's a sweetheart.

01:20:08.000 Fly fisherman.

01:20:09.000 I've heard that from multiple people.

01:20:11.000 Wrote a book about it. 1.00

01:20:12.000 I've never met an idiot on the river. 1.00

01:20:14.000 That's his book? 1.00

01:20:15.000 Yeah.

01:20:15.000 I've heard from multiple people what a...

01:20:19.000 Like, how surprised people are, what a great guy he is.

01:20:21.000 You talk to him, you would have no idea.

01:20:22.000 And he played a tough guy.

01:20:23.000 He could turn on and turn off electric appliances by punching the wall.

01:20:28.000 Well, he's a tiny little guy, too, which is really...

01:20:30.000 I mean, I'm a short guy, but he's tiny.

01:20:32.000 I mean, it's weird, you know, that this guy was like this tough guy on this show.

01:20:36.000 Like, how did that ever work?

01:20:37.000 Yeah, he would walk into a bathroom and bang the wall, and we would run out of the bathroom, and he would talk to Pinky Tuscadero in there. 0.50

01:20:44.000 He was good at it!

01:20:44.000 He was good at it, too!

01:20:46.000 The point is I've met a lot of really nice actors.

01:20:50.000 It's not a broad, sweeping generalization, but I think that the occupation itself is so unchecked.

01:20:58.000 Stand-up comedy, for instance, is very checked.

01:21:01.000 If you're a funny comedian, the reason why you're a funny comedian, you have to write the We're good to go.

01:21:14.000 We're good to go.

01:21:30.000 Because you live a flop in such an immediate way, man. 1.00

01:21:34.000 Yeah, you die. 1.00

01:21:35.000 You fucking eat shit up there. 1.00

01:21:36.000 It happens so often. 1.00

01:21:38.000 It crushes your ego.

01:21:39.000 I can imagine you're just watching it happen.

01:21:41.000 It's like a movie.

01:21:42.000 You make it, there's all this excitement and stuff, and later it doesn't do well.

01:21:45.000 You're up there going, this is not going well.

01:21:47.000 I've never done it, but I can just imagine how humiliating it must be. 1.00

01:21:50.000 The way I describe it is like sucking a thousand dicks in front of your mother. 1.00

01:21:54.000 It's actually probably worse than that because there's somewhere out there, there's someone that would like to suck a thousand dicks in front of his mother. 1.00

01:22:00.000 Nobody wants to bomb on stage. 1.00

01:22:02.000 It's just a horrible, crushing...

01:22:04.000 But along the way, one of the things that you learn is to be really good at comedy, you have to lose all of your sense of self-importance.

01:22:13.000 You have to lose all of that pretending you're something special.

01:22:17.000 Like, you're not something special.

01:22:19.000 You're just a person.

01:22:20.000 And the best way to do comedy is almost to be non-existent.

01:22:23.000 When you write and when you perform, there's almost no you in there.

01:22:29.000 Unless it's a self-deprecating aspect of it, like you're pointing out things that are silly about you, or pointing out ridiculous ideas that you might have had in your head at one point in time.

01:22:38.000 But other than that, when you're performing, you're never thinking, man, I'm up here and I'm killing. 0.72

01:22:42.000 You don't think of that at all.

01:22:44.000 In fact, you're almost like a passenger in this weird ride that you've put together.

01:22:49.000 Yeah, I got you.

01:22:49.000 And all you know is that you kind of know how to do it, and all you know is that you kind of have to keep at it in order to continue doing it, and that it's really fun to do.

01:22:57.000 But the moment you start taking it serious or attributing all of the success of it to you being super special and amazing and unique, you fucking suck. 0.99

01:23:08.000 But your comedy suffers. 1.00

01:23:11.000 Oh, it goes terribly wrong.

01:23:13.000 Yeah, because people know that.

01:23:14.000 They don't want to laugh at you.

01:23:15.000 Part of laughing at you is you have to be in the moment of what you're doing.

01:23:20.000 And if you're in the moment of what you're doing, the last thing you're going to be thinking about is how awesome you are.

01:23:24.000 That doesn't come up.

01:23:26.000 Whereas an actor, you can pretend that there's something really special about you.

01:23:31.000 Ready, action!

01:23:32.000 And then you do this role, and you play this guy.

01:23:35.000 It's all pretend. 1.00

01:23:36.000 It's all bullshit. 0.99

01:23:37.000 So the checking aspect, the being, the ego check, and the creative process, the tuning in, it's non-existent. 0.99

01:23:45.000 You're treated probably around you, you're treated with a certain amount of deference, too, that you're not going to get as doing stand-up.

01:23:50.000 Exactly. 1.00

01:23:51.000 They're treated like, we're treated like shit. 0.99

01:23:53.000 The comedians are like, well, you know, people like you if you're good, and they appreciate the, but no one, like, takes it seriously as an art form. 0.99

01:23:59.000 Yeah.

01:23:59.000 Which is one of the reasons why plagiarism was always so a huge problem with comedy, whereas it was treated with, you know...

01:24:06.000 If you think about plagiarism in literature, there's lawsuits and people's careers are ruined.

01:24:11.000 Oh yeah, you'll be disrespected.

01:24:13.000 Music, massive lawsuits.

01:24:15.000 People have lost millions of dollars just for a riff.

01:24:18.000 One of my favorite examples is there's a great song by the Verb, Bittersweet Symphony.

01:24:22.000 I don't know that song.

01:24:23.000 But that riff is stolen from the Rolling Stones.

01:24:26.000 So because of that, those guys made nothing.

01:24:29.000 They didn't make anything about that song.

01:24:30.000 I didn't know that.

01:24:30.000 Yeah, they had to give it all away.

01:24:32.000 I still like that song.

01:24:33.000 It's a great song.

01:24:33.000 Well, the lyrics are great.

01:24:35.000 It's interesting.

01:24:36.000 But there's no doubt about it that riff comes from the Rolling Stones.

01:24:39.000 What Stones tune?

01:24:40.000 I don't remember.

01:24:42.000 Oh, you know this a little bit.

01:24:44.000 I think maybe you forgot.

01:24:44.000 I'm going to see you on January 31st.

01:24:46.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:24:47.000 Oh, cool.

01:24:47.000 Is that sold out yet?

01:24:48.000 Should we talk about it?

01:24:49.000 Yeah, no, it's sold out.

01:24:50.000 It's been sold out for months.

01:24:51.000 It's been the last time.

01:24:52.000 What is it?

01:24:52.000 The Last Time by the Rolling Stones.

01:24:53.000 That's the song?

01:24:54.000 The Last Time?

01:24:55.000 Yeah.

01:24:56.000 After I saw you last time, When I went to see you in New Jersey, we were driving home and my wife was saying to me, she's like, my face hurts from laughing at heart.

01:25:07.000 And I wanted to write a thing.

01:25:09.000 I wanted to write a thing like...

01:25:12.000 I envisioned writing something called The Only Happy Comedian.

01:25:17.000 I don't understand comedy at all, but you come at it from a position of strength in some way.

01:25:23.000 So much stuff is funny because it's from a place of self-loathing.

01:25:27.000 So many comedians do a self-loathing thing.

01:25:29.000 It might not be real, but it's kind of like...

01:25:32.000 It's just where it spawns from. 0.99

01:25:33.000 It's like self-hatred and I'm so pathetic. 0.98

01:25:36.000 It's funny that you build a whole act. 0.98

01:25:38.000 You can build a whole act and you're at a position of strength.

01:25:42.000 I don't know if you ever think of it that way.

01:25:44.000 But, like, you're up there, like, you seem, like, when you're up there, you seem somehow, like, in control and, you know, like a word you like, in control and powerful, but still funny.

01:25:53.000 And it's a weird contradiction, because we get from stand-up, we get to thinking, like, it's just like, yo, my wife don't like me, no one likes me, I'm awful, I can't do anything, you know?

01:26:03.000 Well, people have always said that you have to be nebbishy or fat or weird to be a comedian.

01:26:10.000 I was told that so much that I was insecure about my body when I first started doing comedy.

01:26:15.000 That's kind of what I'm saying.

01:26:16.000 You could be like, no, I'm fine.

01:26:18.000 If I wasn't doing this, I'd be fine.

01:26:20.000 I'd be doing something else.

01:26:22.000 The thing about comedy is that there's no rules.

01:26:25.000 There's no rules.

01:26:26.000 I mean, there's sort of laws to it, but there's no rules.

01:26:30.000 You know, there's laws, some of the laws are that it has to be funny to you, and that you have to learn it, and that everybody's different.

01:26:38.000 Like, there's Mitch Hedberg, who is like, you familiar with Mitch Hedberg?

01:26:42.000 Oh yeah, man, I got a good Mitch Hedberg story.

01:26:44.000 Really?

01:26:44.000 Yeah.

01:26:45.000 Well, we'll get into that.

01:26:46.000 One of my all-time favorites.

01:26:47.000 But then there's also Sam Kinison, two completely different styles of comedy, two of my all-time favorite comedians.

01:26:53.000 It's all based on what is the world through your eyes.

01:26:57.000 What I find funny, it's funny coming out of me.

01:27:01.000 It's coming out of my mind.

01:27:03.000 But if you gave my act to Demetri Martin, you probably wouldn't be able to pull it off.

01:27:08.000 The more violent, physical, aggressive aspects of my act, it wouldn't work.

01:27:13.000 It works because it's funny to me.

01:27:14.000 It's obviously funny to me.

01:27:16.000 And I'm being honest.

01:27:17.000 When I talk about the things that I think are funny, it's because I've thought about it.

01:27:21.000 These are things that I honestly find amusing.

01:27:23.000 I'm not lying.

01:27:24.000 You don't sit around and think, what would be something funny I could say?

01:27:28.000 Never.

01:27:28.000 It jumps in your head, and you're like, I will convert this now into my comedy.

01:27:32.000 Well, it's taken a long time.

01:27:34.000 I would say there's stages of comedy.

01:27:37.000 The first stage is you're absolutely terrified, and all you're trying to do is get a laugh in any way, shape, or form.

01:27:41.000 And I think of jokes in that stage as tools.

01:27:45.000 All you're trying to do is get by.

01:27:47.000 Usually in the beginning, like when you're an open mic comedian, you've got five minutes on stage. 0.99

01:27:51.000 And those five minutes are fucking harrowing. 0.99

01:27:53.000 A ride through hell. 0.99

01:27:55.000 And when it's over, you're like, whew, I've got a couple laughs.

01:27:58.000 All right, good.

01:27:59.000 I didn't die.

01:28:00.000 And then occasionally you will die, and then you'll think about quitting.

01:28:03.000 And many, many times I thought about quitting. 1.00

01:28:04.000 I was like, fuck, I can't do this anymore. 0.99

01:28:06.000 It's too devastating. 1.00

01:28:07.000 You can't handle getting beat up like that.

01:28:09.000 The punishment that your self-esteem takes when you bomb on stage is almost overwhelming.

01:28:16.000 For some people, I've seen guys bomb and never recover. 0.97

01:28:20.000 I've seen them, like, their act diminishes, like they had some potential, there was something there, and then I've seen, like, one night where the fucking wheels come off, and then they never recover. 0.95

01:28:30.000 Is that right? 0.98

01:28:31.000 It's almost like a beating that a fighter takes.

01:28:32.000 I've seen fighters take beatings, and not even just the physical punishment of it, but the confidence...

01:28:39.000 Destruction of it.

01:28:41.000 They never are the same guy again.

01:28:43.000 They never become that carefree, cocky guy again.

01:28:46.000 It just goes away.

01:28:47.000 And with that, so does their fighting career.

01:28:49.000 I've seen that happen with comedians as well.

01:28:52.000 So the beginning is just tools.

01:28:54.000 And then once you do that, then somewhere along the line, you go, okay, I'm pretty confident that I have some tools.

01:29:00.000 Now, what do I think is funny?

01:29:01.000 What would I laugh at?

01:29:02.000 This is what's funny to me.

01:29:03.000 And then you come up with stuff that's funny to you.

01:29:05.000 And then there's a stage three that comedians...

01:29:08.000 Yeah.

01:29:21.000 There's a thing I'm doing.

01:29:24.000 And just so I'm clear, when you're talking about moving away from just like jokes.

01:29:28.000 Yes.

01:29:28.000 Like, what does this do?

01:29:29.000 It's this.

01:29:30.000 Ha ha ha.

01:29:31.000 Maybe taking like philosophies or...

01:29:34.000 Trying to figure out a way to get an idea and to turn that idea into comedy.

01:29:39.000 Maybe a controversial idea.

01:29:42.000 Maybe an idea that you think is important.

01:29:44.000 Maybe just a thought.

01:29:45.000 Because there's a way to introduce an idea into someone's brain.

01:29:49.000 Give me an example of an idea.

01:29:51.000 Can you throw one out?

01:29:52.000 It's hard to do.

01:29:53.000 This is what I was going to say.

01:29:54.000 If you go on stage and say if you're a Republican and you're on stage and you start going off about gay marriage or this or that and you just give a speech.

01:30:05.000 If I'm in the audience and I have an opposing point of view... 1.00

01:30:09.000 I go, well, fuck you. 1.00

01:30:10.000 I don't like your opinion. 1.00

01:30:11.000 I think that's wrong and I think people should be able to do this.

01:30:14.000 But if you go on stage and say something that makes me laugh, even if I don't agree with you, even if I don't agree with you, if you make me laugh, I have to at least consider your idea.

01:30:24.000 I have to at least...

01:30:25.000 You've introduced...

01:30:27.000 Here's a perfect example.

01:30:28.000 I had a guy who came up to me who was a Christian, and I used to do this bit about Noah's Ark, that if you told Noah and the Ark to an eight-year-old retarded boy, he's going to have some questions. 0.99

01:30:38.000 So I had this whole bit about someone sitting down with this young retarded boy telling him the story of Noah's Ark. 0.99

01:30:45.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:30:45.000 And it was a really long bit.

01:30:48.000 And this guy came up to me and goes, I've got to tell you, man, look...

01:30:51.000 I'm a Christian, and you started talking about Noah's Ark, and I started getting offended. 0.99

01:30:57.000 And he goes, but two or three minutes into that fucking bit, I was laughing so goddamn hard, I started thinking, what the fuck? 0.99

01:31:03.000 How is that a real story? 0.99

01:31:05.000 And he started laughing.

01:31:06.000 He goes, I just want to say congratulations.

01:31:07.000 You made me laugh at something that's completely opposed to my own beliefs.

01:31:10.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:31:11.000 This is a video where a guy came up to me after a show in Georgia.

01:31:17.000 Here, play this, because this is kind of funny.

01:31:19.000 You just dug it up with me.

01:31:19.000 This guy told me he found Noah's Ark on a mountain.

01:31:27.000 Yeah.

01:31:38.000 It's kind of blow your mind.

01:31:39.000 But our job is not to say what it is.

01:31:41.000 Our job is just to confirm what they found.

01:31:46.000 I'm confused though.

01:31:48.000 Do you really believe that it's Noah's Ark?

01:31:50.000 Let me tell you what I found.

01:31:53.000 First of all, they did find a boat shaped object in the mountains of Ararat that's 515 feet long.

01:32:01.000 That should be enough for all the animals.

01:32:03.000 About 515 feet?

01:32:04.000 Yeah.

01:32:04.000 For about 100 million species?

01:32:06.000 That seems better, right?

01:32:07.000 Well, I don't know.

01:32:08.000 Okay, it's about 515 feet.

01:32:09.000 Why don't they keep the hippos off?

01:32:11.000 Can you even get some hippos on a 550?

01:32:15.000 Anyway, if you saw the shots, just the things that were found, it's a cool thing.

01:32:21.000 At the very least, you might be able to use some more material.

01:32:23.000 Isn't it possible that maybe it's just a boat?

01:32:25.000 Yeah, it could be.

01:32:27.000 Well, why would anybody assume that that boat would make any connection in history to a crazy story about a dude who got all the animals to come on his boat because God talked to him, told him it was going to rain, and he was going to drown everybody because everybody wasn't paying attention.

01:32:42.000 Just think about all that stuff.

01:32:43.000 I think it makes sense.

01:32:44.000 How could that be Noah's art?

01:32:46.000 It's just wood.

01:32:48.000 No, no, no.

01:32:48.000 You don't actually have wood there anymore.

01:32:51.000 Whatever it is, even if it's a boat.

01:32:52.000 Even if it was a solid boat, it's still a boat.

01:32:55.000 Here's the interesting thing. 1.00

01:32:55.000 Unless you found camel shit right next to rhino shit. 1.00

01:32:59.000 Well, actually, we do have samples of that. 1.00

01:33:01.000 Do you have camel shape? 0.97

01:33:03.000 We've taken core samples and found different species of animals of remains.

01:33:08.000 We've got 12 anchors.

01:33:10.000 No, they didn't.

01:33:11.000 By the way.

01:33:12.000 12 anchors, again, should be about enough for hundreds of millions of species of animals.

01:33:16.000 There was probably more than that, but what do you do when you find this on a 6,000-foot peak in the hills?

01:33:23.000 But at the very least, I can just show you what they found.

01:33:25.000 Well, without a doubt, this earth has, over the last...

01:33:30.000 Thousands and thousands of years have gone through some pretty huge cataclysmic events.

01:33:33.000 I mean, they know for a fact that at one point in time, where Montana is right now, that's where all the megalodons were.

01:33:39.000 They find megalodon fossils, that gigantic shark, those huge teeth, they find them in the mountains of Montana.

01:33:45.000 And that's 600 million years ago. 0.97

01:33:47.000 So they know that no matter what, there's some crazy shit that's happened to this planet. 0.98

01:33:51.000 You know, without a doubt. 0.89

01:33:52.000 So it's very conceivable that at one point in time there was a huge flood in that region, and that's why there's a boat stuck up there.

01:33:58.000 It's very possible.

01:33:59.000 It is pretty possible, but I can confirm we do have something that matches dead nuts to what the story is.

01:34:04.000 I love that.

01:34:06.000 I use that term, dead nuts.

01:34:08.000 Yeah, you do.

01:34:08.000 I think Gilgamesh is the original one.

01:34:10.000 Yeah, it's one of the oldest ones that we know of, but it's a coincidence.

01:34:14.000 Yeah, well, I think, seriously, I think what the story of Noah's Ark is, what it really is all about, is that at one point in time, I think there was a huge disaster, and I think it's probably happened more than once, where, like, meteors hit, or, you know, a shifting in the core, ice caps, or something huge, where it's just, like, it kills,

01:34:29.000 like, 90% of the people.

01:34:31.000 And the people that are remaining, they have a story.

01:34:33.000 A story of a great disaster.

01:34:34.000 And some people got away.

01:34:36.000 And those stories, the story of the great disaster and some person got away.

01:34:39.000 Over time, that person becomes the great hero, the savior.

01:34:42.000 And they talk about it around the campfire.

01:34:44.000 And his legend grows.

01:34:45.000 And when you have a story that's told in oral tradition for over a thousand years before it's ever written in ancient Hebrew.

01:34:50.000 And to this day, they only know three out of four words in ancient Hebrew.

01:34:53.000 To this day, 25% of all the words, they have no idea what it means.

01:34:57.000 And in ancient Hebrew, there was no numbers, so letters also doubled as numbers.

01:35:01.000 So you lose all the numeric value that's important in the text, like the word God and the word love.

01:35:05.000 They have the same numeric value, and that's very important for sentencing. 0.99

01:35:08.000 And when that was translated into Latin, it was translated into Greek, they lost all of that shit. 0.96

01:35:12.000 And that's all these stories that are distorted. 0.98

01:35:14.000 Thousands of years of people bullshitting around a campfire to the original text being indecipherable to what they have today.

01:35:22.000 How could anybody think that's real? 0.99

01:35:24.000 You would have to be fucking crazy to think that that really happened. 0.99

01:35:29.000 That God talked to one guy and got all the animals from all over the world and put them on a boat. 0.99

01:35:34.000 That makes zero sense. 1.00

01:35:36.000 When you know people are liars, you know people are weak, you know even most religious people are completely full of shit. 1.00

01:35:42.000 And if, after all that, you think that that story's real, that's insane. 1.00

01:35:47.000 When you actually see the evidence about a boat...

01:35:53.000 Well, that guy obviously didn't listen.

01:35:55.000 Or, you know, the ideas didn't get into his head.

01:35:59.000 But he was so kind about it.

01:36:02.000 Kind?

01:36:03.000 He never threatened you?

01:36:05.000 He didn't want to kill you or anything?

01:36:06.000 Well, I can't.

01:36:07.000 Well, I don't think he was religious.

01:36:08.000 He was a documentarian.

01:36:10.000 Is that right?

01:36:10.000 He believed that he had found Noah's Ark.

01:36:13.000 Yeah, that was probably not the best example for a video.

01:36:16.000 But one thing...

01:36:18.000 The bones, they can't, they better not be there.

01:36:21.000 They didn't find you.

01:36:21.000 Because they only had two of each, so if they died, well, that could have been the unicorn's bone.

01:36:25.000 Yeah, if that's true, right? 1.00

01:36:27.000 If they died, then what the fuck? 1.00

01:36:29.000 Unless they bred before they died. 1.00

01:36:31.000 That could have been.

01:36:32.000 It was a long time.

01:36:34.000 But I'll tell you one thing, though.

01:36:35.000 You were kind of getting at this, like, the way the guy came up to you and he said, like, you were offending me.

01:36:40.000 But it was funny.

01:36:41.000 The second thing I struggle with is, like, you talk to really liberal people and you're like, yeah, Rush, you know, Rush Limbaugh is funny sometimes.

01:36:47.000 He's funny.

01:36:48.000 It makes him so mad.

01:36:50.000 Every time you're really conservative, people would be like, you know, Jon Stewart, he's, you know, he can be pretty funny.

01:36:54.000 They get mad.

01:36:54.000 They get real mad at you.

01:36:55.000 Like, they can't imagine.

01:36:56.000 But I remember, like, when you were doing part of your act, you were talking about when people get really mad at comedians for saying something controversial.

01:37:03.000 And you kind of, you mentioned, like, How come no one's mad at Johnny Cash for shooting a man just to watch him die?

01:37:08.000 That didn't really happen.

01:37:10.000 That's an important thing.

01:37:12.000 Johnny Cash didn't really shoot a man in Reno.

01:37:14.000 That didn't really happen.

01:37:16.000 The thing about comedy is it's an easy target.

01:37:19.000 For people that are looking to be offended, which is a lot of bloggers and people looking to find something to be outraged about, They'll point to comedy because comedy is a soft target. 0.99

01:37:30.000 A lot of comedians will say, fuck that. 0.97

01:37:32.000 There's an art form. 1.00

01:37:33.000 Yeah, no one's always wanting to kill novelists.

01:37:34.000 Unless you're Solomon Rushdie a long time ago.

01:37:36.000 People aren't always going to kill novelists. 0.78

01:37:38.000 There's the cartoonist that got stabbed in Holland. 0.91

01:37:42.000 Muslims. 0.96

01:37:42.000 People go after Muslims. 0.96

01:37:43.000 That guy was killed, right? 0.91

01:37:45.000 Yeah, he was murdered.

01:37:46.000 He's just a cartoonist.

01:37:49.000 Yeah, it's like the soft target of comedy is the idea that there's like this real subtlety to language and there's a subtlety to sarcasm and being facetious.

01:38:07.000 We're good to go. 1.00

01:38:25.000 And you try to pretend that, oh, this is just someone who's an asshole. 1.00

01:38:30.000 This is a person who's just a really evil, mean person. 1.00

01:38:33.000 No, no. 1.00

01:38:33.000 This is a person who's fucking around. 1.00

01:38:35.000 Like, there's an art form to saying fucked up things that you don't really mean. 1.00

01:38:38.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:38:38.000 Like, you can say something fucked up, and I know that you're not serious, so I'll start laughing, and then we'll go, that's so wrong. 0.98

01:38:44.000 But we know it's funny because it's not a statement. 0.97

01:38:48.000 Yeah, no, I know exactly what you mean.

01:38:49.000 But there's like this PC police thing going on now where a bunch of people who...

01:38:55.000 And most of the time, when you pay attention to those people, because I find it fascinating, and I'm...

01:39:00.000 I try to consider myself to be a student of human nature.

01:39:03.000 And one of the things that I find about these people that complain so much about all these different things, and they find this moral outrage or find one thing to harp on over and over again, is they're usually extremely troubled personally.

01:39:16.000 They usually have overwhelming issues, like they're morbidly obese, or they're socially inept.

01:39:24.000 There's something wrong with them that's causing them to find this soft target and then lash out constantly at this soft target.

01:39:32.000 And then also if you look at what they do, a lot of people, what they're trying to do is stop someone from hurting someone's feelings.

01:39:42.000 And they're trying to say that what you're doing is mean and you're hurting someone's feelings.

01:39:46.000 So what I'm going to do is hurt your feelings.

01:39:50.000 In the most vicious and cruel way possible, you know, with these blogs and the writing, and I'm going to do to you what you're somehow or another doing. 0.99

01:40:01.000 So I'm going to be a complete, total hypocrite. 0.98

01:40:03.000 But I have a license. 0.99

01:40:04.000 I have this license of moral outrage.

01:40:07.000 I have this moral high ground that I'm going to stand on, so I'm going to attack.

01:40:11.000 And I'm going to, you know, to write this vicious, snarky column about a comedian.

01:40:17.000 And the idea is that they're trying to right the wrongs and trying to be the savior of what's good in the world.

01:40:24.000 But that's not the case. 1.00

01:40:26.000 What they're doing is just being an asshole because they feel like they have a license to be an asshole because they can take what you said and put it on paper and say, look, in quotes, Tracy Morgan said if his son was gay, he'd stab him. 1.00

01:40:39.000 In quotes. 1.00

01:40:40.000 So, fuck Tracy Morgan. 1.00

01:40:42.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:40:43.000 Tracy Morgan's a ridiculous person. 1.00

01:40:44.000 Like, his whole act is a bunch of shit that he doesn't mean. 1.00

01:40:47.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:40:47.000 It's a bunch of crazy things that have never happened, and he says a bunch of crazy things because that's his style of comedy. 0.99

01:40:55.000 Like, Mitch Hedberg's style of comedy is to say really preposterous things that other people wouldn't...

01:41:00.000 Like, my favorite Mitch Hedberg joke is, uh, somebody asked me if I wanted a frozen banana.

01:41:06.000 I said no, but I want a regular banana later, so yes!

01:41:10.000 You know?

01:41:11.000 Anybody else says that, it's a terrible joke.

01:41:14.000 But if he says it, it's really funny.

01:41:16.000 That's his style. 1.00

01:41:17.000 Tracy Morgan's style is, My son was gay, I stabbed that little nigga! 1.00

01:41:21.000 He doesn't really mean that. 1.00

01:41:23.000 It's not a statement.

01:41:24.000 He's not writing that down.

01:41:26.000 He didn't carve it in stone and bring it down from the top of a hill.

01:41:29.000 It's his art form.

01:41:31.000 But what's more upsetting than the people who are so volatile and do get so mad about stuff is...

01:41:38.000 The thing that politicians do, which is to feign that response.

01:41:43.000 Yes.

01:41:43.000 You get politicians, you look at their career, they vacillate wildly between all these positions, but they love to get up and act like...

01:41:51.000 To act like the morally outraged guy.

01:41:53.000 Yes.

01:41:54.000 By something that you know.

01:41:55.000 When you look in his eye, you're like, you don't care at all about that.

01:41:59.000 But you're feigning the guy who is that way.

01:42:02.000 And that's more upsetting than someone who really is mad about something.

01:42:05.000 Well, sometimes people are mad about something and it's just a perspective issue.

01:42:08.000 They just lack perspective.

01:42:09.000 Or they lack...

01:42:10.000 A lot of...

01:42:11.000 There's a lack of social intelligence.

01:42:13.000 And there's also a lack of...

01:42:16.000 Having nuanced friends.

01:42:17.000 Having friends that have good senses of humor, people that joke around about things, or say mean things. 0.96

01:42:22.000 Some of my favorite people, like Jim Norton is one of my favorite comedians, and he's my favorite guy on the radio, because he says ridiculous, evil, mean shit all the time, but he doesn't mean it. 0.95

01:42:32.000 He'll laugh after he says it. 0.95

01:42:34.000 But he's really smart about how he does it.

01:42:37.000 And he takes a tremendous amount of grief because of it.

01:42:40.000 Because people will try to point out some of the things that he says and then, you know, and accuse him of being, you know, homophobic or this.

01:42:47.000 One of the least homophobic guys you'll ever meet.

01:42:49.000 In fact, he will talk openly about how many experiences he's had with trannies. 1.00

01:42:54.000 He's had like all these transsexual experiences. 1.00

01:42:56.000 He's a pervert, complete total pervert. 0.99

01:42:58.000 But he's like, he owns it. 1.00

01:43:00.000 Yeah, and I'm with you.

01:43:01.000 And, you know, he takes grief because he's a soft target.

01:43:05.000 Because, you know, you can point to... 1.00

01:43:08.000 Look, they're looking for someone to say outrageous shit so they can be angry. 1.00

01:43:11.000 So who's more likely to say outrageous shit than someone who says outrageous shit for a living? 1.00

01:43:16.000 And some of the times they say outrageous shit and it doesn't work. 1.00

01:43:20.000 You know, it's not funny. 0.99

01:43:21.000 But Patrice O'Neill had a great point about that.

01:43:25.000 The late, great Patrice O'Neill.

01:43:28.000 Who's that?

01:43:28.000 He's a really funny comedian who died...

01:43:32.000 We're good to go.

01:43:52.000 With this attempt, it doesn't mean they're an evil, mean person.

01:43:56.000 They just failed.

01:43:57.000 Yeah, that's a good point.

01:43:59.000 They're not trying to hurt someone's feelings, they're trying to get a laugh.

01:44:02.000 And that's what comedy is.

01:44:05.000 There's a real art to that.

01:44:09.000 Yeah, you're right.

01:44:10.000 I mean, that's a complicated idea.

01:44:12.000 Mm-hmm.

01:44:13.000 It's very complicated.

01:44:14.000 Well, you know my friend Joey Diaz?

01:44:15.000 Did he open up for me?

01:44:17.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:44:17.000 Love that fucking guy. 1.00

01:44:18.000 No, man. 1.00

01:44:19.000 Funny.

01:44:19.000 He's hilarious.

01:44:20.000 The funniest guy I've ever met in my life.

01:44:22.000 But he has this joke about transvestites. 0.74

01:44:24.000 He goes, I love transvestites. 1.00

01:44:25.000 They cook.

01:44:26.000 They clean.

01:44:27.000 You can beat on them every once in a while.

01:44:28.000 The cops come.

01:44:29.000 Who's going to believe?

01:44:30.000 Me or some dude with a wig and a black eye. 0.90

01:44:32.000 Okay, look, Joey Diaz has never punched a transvestite. 0.72

01:44:35.000 He's never had a transvestite over his house with a wig and had him cooking and cleaning. 1.00

01:44:42.000 It's not true.

01:44:43.000 It's a joke.

01:44:44.000 You could say that's a violence against transsexuals joke or a violence against transvestites joke, but it's not.

01:44:50.000 It's not promoting violence against anybody.

01:44:52.000 It's a joke. 1.00

01:44:53.000 It's a fucked up thing that he's saying, and you know it's ridiculous. 0.99

01:44:57.000 That's a good joke. 1.00

01:44:58.000 It's a great joke.

01:44:59.000 It's one of my favorite jokes of all time.

01:45:01.000 But you gotta understand what it actually is.

01:45:04.000 What it actually is, is just...

01:45:06.000 It's just like Johnny Cash pretending he shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.

01:45:10.000 It's exactly the same thing.

01:45:12.000 But...

01:45:13.000 I wish...

01:45:14.000 Is it Patrice O'Neal?

01:45:15.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:45:16.000 He?

01:45:17.000 Yes, yeah.

01:45:17.000 I wish he was here.

01:45:18.000 Because there's some...

01:45:20.000 It's like...

01:45:20.000 You've been in a situation where someone said something...

01:45:25.000 That they wanted to be funny.

01:45:26.000 Yes. 0.71

01:45:27.000 Let's say someone makes a crack about gays and it flops.

01:45:33.000 A way that it can flop is if they're so transparent that you see in them for a minute and you're like, wow, that really comes from a place of deep hatred.

01:45:46.000 Yes, yes, yes.

01:45:47.000 And it's not funny because in that, I got a glimpse into that.

01:45:52.000 You know?

01:45:53.000 Yes. 0.77

01:45:53.000 If you make a gay joke, I don't know why. 0.77

01:45:58.000 From your demeanor, whatever it is, I know that you're not at home wishing you could go out and kill gay people. 1.00

01:46:06.000 Right. 0.99

01:46:07.000 How do I know that?

01:46:09.000 It allows you to explore a funny idea.

01:46:12.000 But sometimes someone will say something like, man, this person really has a problem with black people who are in a power position.

01:46:20.000 It's like you see it. 0.74

01:46:21.000 It's intent.

01:46:22.000 The intent becomes transparent.

01:46:24.000 When someone is a kind person and someone's just pointing out hypocrisy.

01:46:28.000 Like, I have this bit making fun of Morrissey.

01:46:33.000 Morrissey is the lead singer of the Smiths.

01:46:35.000 Dude, but How Soon Is Now is a rock-solid song.

01:46:38.000 But I know your Morrissey bit and I laughed at it.

01:46:39.000 Yeah.

01:46:40.000 I was like the Noah guy because I could have come up to you and said, you know what? 0.98

01:46:43.000 I like How Soon Is Now, but that shit about Morrissey was funny. 0.98

01:46:46.000 He makes good music. 0.99

01:46:48.000 He does make good music.

01:46:49.000 But his idea that, you know, all... 0.96

01:46:52.000 You know, war is created by heterosexuals. 0.99

01:46:54.000 Yeah. 0.89

01:46:55.000 It's not only not supported by history, but the point is, like, when I talk about that on stage, I make a big point out of the fact that I want to make sure that, like, I don't want anybody to think that I have any problem with gay people.

01:47:09.000 But I also don't want any gay people to just take random jabs at the giant mass of straight people and say, we're responsible for all the wars. 1.00

01:47:17.000 It's fucking, it's all ridiculous. 0.99

01:47:20.000 Oh yeah, the proof is that 10% of the wars were the gays responsible for 10% of the wars and it would upset the theory. 1.00

01:47:29.000 Well, all you'd have to do is look at history, like the Spartans, all the gay Athenians, the Romans, all the gay sex they had. 0.98

01:47:37.000 I think for a long time... 1.00

01:47:38.000 Those are fighting bastards there. 1.00

01:47:39.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:47:40.000 Alexander the Great is one of the greatest conquerors ever. 1.00

01:47:42.000 He's gay as fuck. 1.00

01:47:43.000 I think that one of the things about people that are in a group is they always want to assume that this is the good group to be in. 1.00

01:47:51.000 And the idea that all gay people are cool is ridiculous. 1.00

01:47:55.000 Because people are people. 0.98

01:47:56.000 There's a huge range of how people can behave.

01:48:01.000 Whether it's gay people or straight people.

01:48:03.000 There's a bit I do about...

01:48:06.000 I used to work out at this gay gym. 0.96

01:48:08.000 And these gay dudes used to hit on me all the time. 0.94

01:48:11.000 I used to work out at Gold's Gym on Cole Street. 0.98

01:48:14.000 Because it was so gay that because you were there, it was assumed that you must be gay.

01:48:18.000 Well, they would just... 0.60

01:48:19.000 You're a man. 0.75

01:48:20.000 It's like if you're a guy and you go to a gym and there's a hot lesbian working out there, you know, are you gonna just... 1.00

01:48:27.000 Dudes are gonna take a shot. 1.00

01:48:28.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:48:29.000 They're gonna try to find out how lesbian is you. 1.00

01:48:31.000 Yeah, I got you. 0.97

01:48:31.000 You know? 0.97

01:48:32.000 And... 0.77

01:48:33.000 The idea that gay guys are immune from sexual harassment, they're not going to sexually harass you because they're from this marginalized group. 0.59

01:48:43.000 So they would be different. 0.70

01:48:45.000 They would be kinder and sweeter and more and more. 1.00

01:48:47.000 Bullshit! 1.00

01:48:48.000 They're dudes with dicks. 1.00

01:48:50.000 They'll spike your drink just like a straight guy will spike your drink. 1.00

01:48:53.000 A gay guy will spike your drink? 1.00

01:48:55.000 Of course, there's got to be gay guys out there that will spike your drink. 1.00

01:48:58.000 Fuck yeah. 1.00

01:48:58.000 Yeah, I'm with you. 1.00

01:48:59.000 Gay guys would roofie you just like a straight guy would roofie you. 1.00

01:49:02.000 The idea that someone is really super cool just because they're gay is ridiculous. 1.00

01:49:06.000 It's just like the idea of someone being super cool because they're black. 0.98

01:49:09.000 Marginalized groups have a little bit of leeway with a lot of knee-jerk, reactionary, bleeding-heart liberals, which is why a guy like Al Sharpton is allowed to be on television. 1.00

01:49:21.000 Al Sharpton is a con man and an idiot, but yet he represents black people on television. 1.00

01:49:27.000 Because no one wants to say anything about him because he's black. 1.00

01:49:30.000 Because if you pick on Al Sharpton, you're picking on marginalized people and you are therefore a racist because he represents brown people. 0.96

01:49:37.000 Look at his skin. 1.00

01:49:38.000 He's a brown guy.

01:49:39.000 He's allowed to say...

01:49:40.000 But meanwhile, if you follow his career, I mean, the guy made his living off of, like, the Tawana Brawley thing where there was a fake rape where he, you know, he came out and had this gigantic protest and it turns out that this woman, Tawana Brawley, was never really raped in the first place.

01:49:54.000 She made it all up.

01:49:55.000 Yeah.

01:49:55.000 And he was the champion of all this.

01:49:57.000 It was attacking white people and attacking white America and the racist establishment that has allowed this to happen.

01:50:03.000 Actually, not really. 1.00

01:50:04.000 You're kind of a con man.

01:50:05.000 And what you're doing is you're taking advantage of a weakness in the system. 0.95

01:50:08.000 I just had occasion.

01:50:09.000 I'm not going to go into how it happened.

01:50:11.000 I had occasion where I just read the first and last chapter of Al Sharpton's most recent book.

01:50:18.000 No, like the second or third chapter and the last chapter.

01:50:20.000 I read the second or third chapter and it kind of changed.

01:50:23.000 It really changed my opinion about it for a minute.

01:50:25.000 And for a minute I was like, that's really like, he made an interesting point about something and expressed it really well.

01:50:31.000 And he kind of talked about an evolution he went through on an idea.

01:50:35.000 He explained what would be in politics a flip-flop.

01:50:38.000 He did a big flip-flop and kind of walked through how a public figure does a flip-flop and it was good.

01:50:45.000 Then I read the last chapter and I just went back to being like, oh, you are...

01:50:51.000 It was funny because I'm reading that book.

01:50:53.000 Oh, never mind.

01:50:54.000 Never mind.

01:50:55.000 No, never mind.

01:50:56.000 Go ahead.

01:50:57.000 I'm sitting there reading that book and a guy comes up to me and this guy looks like a yachtsman.

01:51:03.000 He looks like a guy who owns a yacht.

01:51:04.000 And he comes up to me and he goes, Sharpton, I had a meeting with Al Sharpton one time.

01:51:13.000 He came in in a chauffeured car, and he was wearing a gold Rolex presidential watch.

01:51:22.000 And the first thing he tells me is how he survives on a $10,000 salary.

01:51:28.000 And then the guy left, walked down the street, and that was the end of his story.

01:51:32.000 That was his Sharpton story.

01:51:34.000 He's what they call a race pimp.

01:51:38.000 I think that's the best way to describe him.

01:51:41.000 Jesse Jackson has made a lucrative business out of going to businesses and saying, you don't have enough diversity in your businesses.

01:51:48.000 Hire me as a consultant.

01:51:50.000 He steps in as a consultant and gets an exorbitant amount of money to try to teach them how to hire black people in their businesses.

01:51:57.000 If they don't do it, he's going to protest them.

01:51:59.000 And that's the insinuation behind all of it.

01:52:02.000 And the only reason why it exists is because there has been racism.

01:52:06.000 The only reason why it exists is because black people have been marginalized. 0.64

01:52:09.000 That evil things have taken place and then 200 years ago black people were slaves. 0.97

01:52:13.000 All those things are absolutely true.

01:52:15.000 So there's this reality to what they're saying.

01:52:19.000 That there is racism.

01:52:20.000 There is inequality.

01:52:21.000 So someone who's coming along is capitalizing on that problem.

01:52:26.000 But it's not...

01:52:27.000 There's no Martin Luther King's life.

01:52:28.000 I was like...

01:52:29.000 At my house the other day, my wife was playing a Martin Luther King speech because Martin Luther King Day is Monday, and my daughter was like, who's Martin Luther King?

01:52:38.000 So my wife is playing this speech for our five-year-old. 0.96

01:52:42.000 Was it the Promised Land speech?

01:52:43.000 Yes, yes, yes.

01:52:44.000 My God.

01:52:44.000 What a speech.

01:52:45.000 Goddamn, what a speech. 0.99

01:52:47.000 Man, it's like... 0.99

01:52:49.000 I remember a teacher played that for us once.

01:52:52.000 Especially when you hear what happened before he was assassinated.

01:52:57.000 He predicts it.

01:52:59.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:53:00.000 Well, he knew it was coming.

01:53:01.000 That was an incredible speech, man.

01:53:03.000 Unbelievable.

01:53:04.000 Well, not just incredibly written, incredibly performed.

01:53:08.000 And while we were watching it, I was like, there's no one like this anymore.

01:53:12.000 Where's this guy?

01:53:13.000 Where's this guy that represents the black community?

01:53:15.000 A guy who is making these incredible points and is saying something that's so moving.

01:53:21.000 And then you look in the audience and it's so mixed.

01:53:24.000 There's white people next to black people. 0.74

01:53:26.000 And such an incredible time in our culture where people realized that there was these inequalities and there was this groundswell of movement to try to make the world equal and behind it or the figurehead of it is this incredibly powerful,

01:53:43.000 incredibly intelligent guy.

01:53:44.000 Who's probably one of the greatest public speakers of all time.

01:53:46.000 Yeah, like an orator.

01:53:48.000 Yeah, just, I have a dream! 0.98

01:53:50.000 And you see him say it, and you're just like, God damn, it just gives you goosebumps. 0.96

01:53:54.000 And then you see Jesse Jackson. 1.00

01:53:56.000 You can't understand a fucking word he says. 1.00

01:53:57.000 He's mumbling through shit, eating shrimp cocktails, flying in private jets. 1.00

01:54:01.000 He's like, this is what's left. 1.00

01:54:03.000 This is what's left of these guys.

01:54:05.000 There's no guy like that.

01:54:06.000 You know, I... I'm not a fan of Obama.

01:54:11.000 I was a fan of Obama the candidate, of the idea of Obama, but Obama in office, I'm not a fan of.

01:54:17.000 I'm not a fan of most of what he's done.

01:54:19.000 I'm not a fan of the whole NSA thing, the spying on people, the use of drones.

01:54:23.000 There's so many things, it's almost too much to mention.

01:54:26.000 But one of the things that makes me so disappointed in him is his lack of anything that he's ever said that's inspirational.

01:54:34.000 The speech that he could have given.

01:54:36.000 The speeches that Kennedy gave. 0.99

01:54:38.000 Kennedy gave some fucking speeches that made you change your idea of what's possible for the future of this country. 0.97

01:54:46.000 But I don't get any of that from Obama. 0.99

01:54:48.000 I get these nonsense...

01:54:48.000 But it's funny because being a performer is really, I mean...

01:54:52.000 Being a performer is what launched him to where he is.

01:54:54.000 Sure.

01:54:54.000 Exactly.

01:54:55.000 Yeah.

01:54:55.000 It was because of that speech at the convention.

01:54:58.000 Oh, yeah.

01:54:59.000 That and just the idea of who he was.

01:55:01.000 I mean, we were coming from...

01:55:02.000 Yeah, an amazing narrative.

01:55:04.000 But one of the earliest criticisms was it's performance.

01:55:08.000 It's performance.

01:55:08.000 But all speeches are...

01:55:10.000 I mean, they're performances.

01:55:12.000 It's hard not...

01:55:13.000 If you look at Hitler giving a speech, it's hard not even fathom how it would ever be that... 0.97

01:55:18.000 He's not just a lunatic. 0.98

01:55:19.000 How would it not be transparently lunatic? 0.64

01:55:22.000 But at the time, he would give these amazing performances that would get people...

01:55:26.000 Stirred up and, you know.

01:55:28.000 It's hard to grasp the context of Hitler because I don't speak German.

01:55:31.000 If I spoke German, maybe I could understand, like...

01:55:34.000 Oh, like all the maniacal, everything.

01:55:38.000 Yeah, it's so intense and so crazy, but the Obama speech is like, there's nothing...

01:55:46.000 Hold on, can we back up?

01:55:47.000 Please don't think I was doing the old, like, Hitler-Obama thing.

01:55:53.000 No, I didn't think you were doing that at all.

01:55:54.000 I just thought you were talking about powerful orators.

01:55:56.000 Yeah, no, it made me nervous for a minute.

01:55:59.000 Yeah, that's a touchy subject, right? 0.98

01:56:01.000 You're a Nazi. 0.99

01:56:03.000 Steve Rinell, a Nazi. 0.99

01:56:04.000 Front cover of whatever magazine.

01:56:07.000 Yeah, I think...

01:56:09.000 We have a serious lack of these powerful, inspirational characters, these people that go on TV or give speeches that really have vision to them.

01:56:21.000 I mean, Obama had some of that as a candidate, but as a president, it's almost like he looks so tired. 0.97

01:56:28.000 When I see him on TV, he looks so goddamn tired.

01:56:31.000 And I remember when he was running, we had Bush and Cheney, and we were in war, and we were in a war that most people didn't support, and it was very confusing, and it was... 0.97

01:56:38.000 Coming out that the pretense of this war was incorrect and there wasn't really any weapons of mass destruction and all these lives and devastation and people were looking into Halliburton and the connection to Cheney.

01:56:49.000 It felt evil. 0.97

01:56:50.000 It felt like we were trapped with these evil old white dudes. 0.99

01:56:54.000 And here comes along this guy who's, you know, a single mother. 0.98

01:56:57.000 He comes from a single mother and he's half black and he's so intelligent, so well-read and so well-spoken.

01:57:04.000 And we thought this was going to be the change.

01:57:06.000 This was going to be the big shift.

01:57:07.000 Yeah.

01:57:08.000 And it didn't turn out to be that at all.

01:57:10.000 It turned out to be just kind of more of the same.

01:57:12.000 But no more inspiration. 0.99

01:57:15.000 All that inspiration shit's gone. 0.99

01:57:17.000 I mean, he was so vibrant as a candidate. 1.00

01:57:20.000 And as a president, I can't remember a single time that he's ever, like, addressed the nation where I was like, that's a bad motherfucker. 0.99

01:57:27.000 Like, there's something there. 0.98

01:57:29.000 He's saying something that really gets people excited.

01:57:32.000 It's been so divisive.

01:57:33.000 But I always think, like, when I look at things that...

01:57:37.000 There's things that happen to candidates.

01:57:40.000 I think it has so much to do with money.

01:57:43.000 We get these figures going into the primaries.

01:57:45.000 You get these figures that buck the trends and Mavericks.

01:57:51.000 When I say Mavericks, I'm not referring strictly to McCain, but you get these people that come in and they're going to upset the status quo.

01:57:58.000 But then you have to play the politics game and you owe so much stuff for money.

01:58:02.000 And then you pay those debts and it's like corrupting.

01:58:05.000 And I think a similar thing happens to people often in office.

01:58:08.000 I think that...

01:58:09.000 Like, I can't imagine what it must be to be president.

01:58:11.000 And I say this talking about George W. Bush and Obama.

01:58:15.000 I can't imagine what it must be when you're president and someone comes in every morning and runs through the list of threats.

01:58:23.000 And you hear it and hear it and hear it and it's like threats, threats, threats, threats.

01:58:27.000 I... The paranoia that must exist, you know, I think it has to be really taxing on people.

01:58:35.000 No doubt.

01:58:35.000 And every decision you make.

01:58:37.000 And it's like, yeah, it's going to be, it will be your legacy.

01:58:41.000 And you're like, it's got to be wrenching to just have to make those decisions all the time.

01:58:48.000 I mean, guys come out of office looking so rough.

01:58:53.000 Yeah, it's probably like...

01:58:59.000 And he's like, you know what? 1.00

01:59:01.000 Fuck this. 1.00

01:59:01.000 I'm not doing it. 1.00

01:59:02.000 Yeah.

01:59:02.000 There's something, like, it's so intoxicating to be president.

01:59:06.000 Do you think that's it?

01:59:07.000 I think they, you know, probably don't let them, you know? 0.99

01:59:09.000 They probably, you know, look, man, we have a fucking deal. 0.99

01:59:12.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:59:12.000 We got you into this mess. 1.00

01:59:14.000 Wouldn't it be funny, though?

01:59:15.000 Well, since George Washington, they say he could have won again.

01:59:19.000 He only had one term?

01:59:21.000 No, but people were like, do three. 0.87

01:59:24.000 They wanted him to keep rolling. 0.96

01:59:26.000 And he stepped down, and I think he might have been the last guy that wouldn't have been like, damn, I'll take another one. 0.96

01:59:31.000 Bloomberg took another one. 0.69

01:59:32.000 Jimmy Carter is one of the few guys that was president that I would really love to sit down with and have a private conversation.

01:59:38.000 Because he seems to be like a true humanitarian.

01:59:41.000 And he seems to be, out of all the people that were ever president, the guy who caused probably the least amount of loss of lives and the least amount of War and heartbreak seems to be Jimmy Carter.

01:59:51.000 He seemed truly like a kind man who wound up in this weird situation where he was the President of the United States.

01:59:59.000 He wound up in a weird situation out in the desert.

02:00:02.000 Oh, the hostage situation?

02:00:04.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:00:04.000 Oh, well, that's a crazy situation where the fucking hostage were released as soon as Reagan got into office. 0.99

02:00:10.000 I'm like, what kind of fucking weird deal did you guys make? 0.99

02:00:12.000 Did you guys keep those people hostage for political gain? 0.99

02:00:16.000 That's one of the most disgusting possibilities in the history of the...

02:00:21.000 Of power in the presidency.

02:00:24.000 That doesn't make any sense.

02:00:25.000 You know what I mean.

02:00:26.000 It's like the idea that that's a possibility, that they might have kept those people and used them as a political ploy is pretty gross.

02:00:34.000 It's bad.

02:00:34.000 But probably did happen.

02:00:36.000 I don't know, man. 0.99

02:00:38.000 Like you said, who the fuck knows what it's like once you get into office? 0.99

02:00:41.000 Who has any idea? 0.99

02:00:42.000 I just don't think there should be a president. 0.98

02:00:44.000 I think the idea of having this one alpha chimp running the whole show is so fucking archaic. 1.00

02:00:49.000 It probably works when there's 50 of us. 0.84

02:00:51.000 You want to go parliament?

02:00:53.000 I don't know what I want to go.

02:00:54.000 I want to go internet.

02:00:55.000 I think we need to go hive mind.

02:00:59.000 It should be like those shows where people vote from home.

02:01:02.000 Every issue is always up on this thing.

02:01:04.000 Everybody at home is constantly voting on every issue.

02:01:06.000 It's not a bad idea.

02:01:07.000 The president should attack, not attack.

02:01:09.000 Well, I just think the idea of having one person or a figurehead that pretends to be the one person that runs a show is just so archaic.

02:01:17.000 Well, yeah, but we have a system of checks and balances, man.

02:01:20.000 Allegedly.

02:01:22.000 If you look at the wild vacillations that some countries go through, okay?

02:01:30.000 Venezuela, I mean, you rattle them off all day long.

02:01:34.000 People get frustrated with how slowly things happen in the U.S. That's the story. 1.00

02:01:39.000 The gridlock, nothing gets done, it's all idiots. 1.00

02:01:42.000 If you look at the gradual way, one might argue... 1.00

02:01:46.000 That all that gridlock and all that mayhem and things being so stagnant somehow works to our benefit from preventing wild swings.

02:01:57.000 Oh, we're this, oh, we're that.

02:01:59.000 We get a really serious communist, then we go from that to a real serious anarchist, then we realize that doesn't work, so we go to some wild-ass dictator.

02:02:13.000 I feel that kind of like these mild undulations, when you view it from a historic perspective, I think these mild undulations that we go through in politics are to our benefit.

02:02:24.000 I'm a little bit pro-gridlock.

02:02:27.000 That's interesting.

02:02:28.000 Because if it was just so fast, I feel like we'd have more stumbles than we have.

02:02:36.000 But I'm kind of like generally like an optimist, you know?

02:02:39.000 I'm a general optimist too.

02:02:40.000 I just think there's too many people.

02:02:42.000 I think there's too many people, too many interests, too much money, too many different directions.

02:02:46.000 The money thing is really true.

02:02:47.000 Like this dude that just got the mayor of New York.

02:02:52.000 I want to go back to my show business story too at some point.

02:02:54.000 And I want to tell my Mitch Hedberg story.

02:02:56.000 And I want to talk about hunting pigs tomorrow.

02:02:59.000 How are we on time?

02:03:00.000 We're fine.

02:03:00.000 Okay, so...

02:03:02.000 Man, I lost my...

02:03:03.000 Oh, yeah.

02:03:04.000 So the guy that just got elected mayor in New York.

02:03:07.000 I mean, he's not in there a day, and he's like, okay, no more.

02:03:10.000 We're not going to have any more horses pulling carriages around in Central Park.

02:03:14.000 Really?

02:03:14.000 Yeah.

02:03:15.000 Right off the bat.

02:03:16.000 It's like, are you telling me...

02:03:17.000 You're now running the biggest city.

02:03:22.000 The one that, like, terrorists drool about.

02:03:25.000 You know?

02:03:26.000 The one that's like...

02:03:29.000 Like, balancing all these, like, ethnic groups and tensions.

02:03:32.000 And the one thing that's on your mind when you come in is that horses are pulling carriages in Central Park and it's mean.

02:03:40.000 How could that possibly?

02:03:41.000 It has to be that some dude wrote that guy a check.

02:03:44.000 You know?

02:03:46.000 And he's like, here's the deal. 0.99

02:03:48.000 I'm going to give you this check, but I don't want them damn horses in that park. 1.00

02:03:51.000 Because there's no other way to explain it. 0.98

02:03:53.000 And it shows kind of this weird ignorance and arrogance where if you talk to anyone who's involved in livestock theft and livestock issues, we don't have a horse theft.

02:04:02.000 We don't have a not enough horse problem.

02:04:04.000 There's too many horses.

02:04:06.000 Since the closure of horse slaughter plants, there's like...

02:04:09.000 We're good to go.

02:04:17.000 We're good to go.

02:04:33.000 It has to be about some weird money thing.

02:04:36.000 Or it could be he's just a bleeding heart liberal.

02:04:38.000 No.

02:04:38.000 He doesn't look at it.

02:04:39.000 You think so?

02:04:40.000 You think he's just a money thing?

02:04:41.000 I mean, I don't know. 0.99

02:04:42.000 Tell me what the fuck happened with the large drink thing. 0.98

02:04:45.000 How did that ever take place? 0.99

02:04:46.000 That was Bloomberg, right?

02:04:47.000 Yeah, but it wound up not happening.

02:04:48.000 Did it really?

02:04:49.000 Thank God. 0.99

02:04:49.000 That's ridiculous. 0.99

02:04:50.000 No, they never banned Big Pop. 0.98

02:04:52.000 Jesus Christ, that drove me nuts.

02:04:54.000 The idea that you couldn't get a Big Gulp or a giant drink at a movie theater.

02:04:56.000 I remember one of those comedians, some comedian was doing something, he was doing like a thing where he was like, you're supposed to complete the sentence, like, it's so hot, you know?

02:05:04.000 And one of them was, it's so hot, Bloomberg had to go over to Jersey to get a Big Gulp or something like that.

02:05:12.000 Yeah.

02:05:12.000 But the nanny state stuff, I hate it.

02:05:15.000 I hate all the telling people what to do and not do for your health.

02:05:18.000 I hate it, but I could also picture how frustrating.

02:05:21.000 Because if you look at a guy who smokes a ton of cigarettes, in one hand, why?

02:05:29.000 Right.

02:05:29.000 You've got to be big enough of a man to walk away and be like, okay.

02:05:35.000 Or ride a motorcycle without a helmet.

02:05:36.000 I'm kind of like, why?

02:05:37.000 Why?

02:05:38.000 But then I'd say, like, you gotta be, like, a big enough person in some weird way to be like, okay, you go ahead and push on, and I'm gonna try to not want to, like, control your life.

02:05:48.000 Well, there's gonna be people who look at you and go, dude, you can't talk about cigarettes or motorcycles. 0.99

02:05:52.000 You got charged by a fucking moose. 0.99

02:05:53.000 Yep. 1.00

02:05:54.000 Alright?

02:05:55.000 I saw it.

02:05:56.000 I saw you get hit by a moose.

02:05:57.000 I watched it five times.

02:05:59.000 Yeah.

02:05:59.000 That was...

02:06:00.000 You describing it was harrowing, but watching it was way crazier. 0.99

02:06:04.000 When that fucking thing got up and started running towards you, even though I knew you were okay, I met you after the fact, I was like, oh, he's dead. 1.00

02:06:10.000 He's fucking dead. 1.00

02:06:11.000 No, we met... 1.00

02:06:13.000 Yeah, we met well before, but that's...

02:06:16.000 That was...

02:06:17.000 You know, if you do enough TV, like, that was... 1.00

02:06:20.000 What I did was so stupid that you'd want on one hand... 1.00

02:06:23.000 It was so dumb what I did, and I'll tell what I did in a minute, but what I did was so stupid That you'd want to then hide how stupid you were and not have it be on TV. Right. 1.00

02:06:34.000 But on the other hand, like, but it's compelling TV. Like, a guy getting run over by a moose is interesting, you know?

02:06:38.000 So it's your thing of, like, your ego where...

02:06:41.000 And now I'll tell you what happened.

02:06:42.000 We were calling...

02:06:43.000 You know Ryan Callahan.

02:06:44.000 Yeah.

02:06:45.000 I love Ryan.

02:06:46.000 What a great guy.

02:06:47.000 We were calling moose, and when you call moose...

02:06:51.000 That's excellent, but pinch your...

02:06:54.000 Go, like, pinch your nostrils.

02:06:56.000 Yeah.

02:06:58.000 That's the cow. 1.00

02:06:59.000 That's a cow saying, I am coming into estrus.

02:07:04.000 And moose calling is effective right before the rut, right before the breeding season, because bulls know what's going to happen.

02:07:15.000 Like, the cows are going to want to be bred, and I'm going to breed them.

02:07:18.000 But the cows haven't really got rolling yet, so it's just all anticipation.

02:07:23.000 If they were actually all doing it, and the cows are really in estrus, and the bull's with a cow that's in estrus, he's going to be less likely to come to one calling.

02:07:31.000 So it's all a timing issue.

02:07:32.000 You've got to catch him right before he's ready.

02:07:33.000 Yeah, he wants it.

02:07:35.000 You're the first.

02:07:35.000 He's like, there she is, first cow to come in to estrus.

02:07:38.000 I'm going to go get her.

02:07:39.000 So we're out.

02:07:41.000 Ryan's mimicking the noise of a bull.

02:07:43.000 I'm sorry, mimicking the noise of a cow.

02:07:46.000 And what inspired him to begin doing that is we heard a bull and a bull makes a noise like this.

02:07:50.000 A bull will go...

02:07:51.000 So that's all you heard?

02:07:54.000 It's like a suggestion.

02:07:55.000 You don't even hear it, you feel it.

02:07:57.000 It's a suggestion of a noise.

02:07:59.000 It's like...

02:07:59.000 It was like, what was that?

02:08:01.000 But it's very hard to determine where it was...

02:08:04.000 Not where, it's hard to determine how far away.

02:08:07.000 And we heard that and then we debated for a long time whether we'd heard it or not.

02:08:11.000 We're like, no, I know I heard a bull, I heard a bull.

02:08:14.000 Then it actually started to thunder a little bit off in the distance, which made it even more confusing because it was like, was it thunder or was it that, you know, noise?

02:08:21.000 So Ryan starts trying to lure the bull to us.

02:08:24.000 This is up in British Columbia.

02:08:25.000 He starts trying to lure the bull to us by roaming around making cow calls.

02:08:31.000 And he goes away from the bull.

02:08:34.000 And I stay put, hoping that the bull...

02:08:37.000 We'll come and he's going to want to see her before he gets too close.

02:08:41.000 So by Ryan staying about 75 yards further away, the bull might hang up in the vicinity where I'm at, you know, while he's trying to get a visual lock on the cow to make sure everything looks safe.

02:08:52.000 And we keep calling and calling.

02:08:54.000 And then I'm starting to think I was going crazy.

02:08:55.000 I never heard the bull in the first place.

02:08:57.000 So we start going in the direction.

02:09:00.000 Eventually we start moving in the direction where we think the bull is.

02:09:02.000 And sure enough, I see some brush clashing and he's in there rubbing his antlers on some brush.

02:09:06.000 And Ryan starts calling. 0.98

02:09:08.000 And now we're in his zone enough where he's coming to investigate and he's coming in and he kind of comes at me and I do like a really stupid thing where I take what you call a brisket shot. 0.98

02:09:18.000 And a brisket shot on a deer or a wild pig is devastating. 0.98

02:09:21.000 You know, you're coming in like the sternum and it is devastating to the animal, a small animal.

02:09:29.000 But a moose is just so much.

02:09:30.000 It's like layers of bricks and stuff.

02:09:33.000 Basically, the front of them made them.

02:09:35.000 And he goes down, and I go running over there.

02:09:38.000 And sure enough, he gets up and starts running.

02:09:40.000 And I'm worried.

02:09:41.000 The last thing I want to do is chase a moose.

02:09:43.000 But I'm worried that maybe he's not bleeding enough.

02:09:45.000 So I start running after him.

02:09:48.000 And I get up there, and I catch up to him, and he's laying down again. 1.00

02:09:54.000 And I go to shoot him in the neck. 1.00

02:09:56.000 And click. 1.00

02:09:58.000 Like I had...

02:09:59.000 I messed up my rifle and hadn't chambered around.

02:10:02.000 So it clicks and that bull got up and just turned and like came and boom, knocked me over.

02:10:09.000 Like coming at you like, you know, head down, horns down like a bull, you know, head down, horns. 1.00

02:10:15.000 And he punched me in the ass with one of his antler tines. 1.00

02:10:18.000 And I thought it punctured me. 1.00

02:10:20.000 So I ran away and Callahan shoots the moose down. 0.99

02:10:25.000 And I keep reaching around to feel where he had popped me so hard in the ass and knocked me over. 0.98

02:10:31.000 And my hand keeps coming back bloody. 0.99

02:10:33.000 So I'm trying to feel where he put a hole in me, and I'm thinking he'd punch the hole through my waders and into my ass tissue. 0.91

02:10:41.000 But then I realized that I got blood all over, because I'd hit him in the brisket, so when he ran me over, he smeared a lot of that blood on the back of my clothes. 0.93

02:10:49.000 So that was the blood I was feeling.

02:10:52.000 Scared the hell out of me.

02:10:53.000 And you saw that it wasn't a few days before that I got charged by a grizzly bear.

02:10:58.000 Yeah.

02:11:00.000 It was a harrowing trip.

02:11:01.000 And you're talking about people smoking cigarettes and riding motorcycles with no helmets.

02:11:05.000 That moose deal was probably the closest.

02:11:10.000 You fantasize about bad stuff happening to you from big animals.

02:11:14.000 You're going to get mauled by a bear or whatever.

02:11:16.000 And what really gets you is little teeny things.

02:11:18.000 My hospital stuff has been...

02:11:22.000 Serious issues have been giardia, so drinking bad water, and Lyme disease by getting bit by little teeny bugs that are infected with bacteria.

02:11:31.000 And that's like...

02:11:32.000 My real source of trouble.

02:11:34.000 But when I'm laying in bed and I'm not thinking about microbes, I'm thinking about big giant animals coming to get me, you know, and that one came and knocked me.

02:11:42.000 In the minute, like, it's mixed emotions. 0.97

02:11:45.000 As soon as it happens, I'm like, that was the stupidest thing I ever did. 0.99

02:11:46.000 I can't believe that. 1.00

02:11:47.000 I'm so dumb. 0.98

02:11:48.000 And then concurrent with that is a thought of like, I am so happy that that happened. 0.98

02:11:53.000 That was an amazing thing, you know?

02:11:55.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:11:56.000 And now, dude, as stupid as it was, now sitting there, I'm like, I love that that happened. 1.00

02:12:01.000 Because you're okay. 1.00

02:12:02.000 Yeah.

02:12:03.000 It's pretty terrifying to watch. 1.00

02:12:05.000 Looking at it now, I wouldn't even be disappointed had he punched a hole in my butt. 1.00

02:12:10.000 As long as you lived. 1.00

02:12:11.000 Yeah.

02:12:11.000 But what if he hit your sack?

02:12:13.000 What if a horn?

02:12:14.000 I mean, think about that.

02:12:15.000 I already got two kids.

02:12:18.000 You're cool with a hole in the sack from a moose morn?

02:12:20.000 I keep telling.

02:12:21.000 Half the days my wife is like, go down and get a bass sack to me. 1.00

02:12:24.000 Half the days she's like, no, wait, because we want another one.

02:12:26.000 You know what?

02:12:27.000 It's a dead issue now.

02:12:29.000 Moose.

02:12:31.000 Crushed my sack.

02:12:33.000 I'm a eunuch.

02:12:34.000 Wow.

02:12:34.000 That would be harsh.

02:12:36.000 It was fun, man.

02:12:37.000 I mean, I love that.

02:12:39.000 You'll appreciate this because I was reading this book about human history called Lone Survivor.

02:12:45.000 Not Lone Survivor.

02:12:46.000 That's the SEAL story.

02:12:48.000 Yeah.

02:12:48.000 It's something like Lone Survivors.

02:12:50.000 It's by a geneticist.

02:12:52.000 A British geneticist. 0.92

02:12:54.000 What the hell's name?

02:12:54.000 Anyways, something like that.

02:12:56.000 Soul Survivors?

02:12:57.000 I don't know.

02:12:58.000 He talks about the suite of injuries that are common to Neanderthal skeletons.

02:13:03.000 Did I tell you about this?

02:13:03.000 No.

02:13:04.000 So, like, every time they dig up a Neanderthal skeleton in the mouths of caves and stuff, like, one, you find that they've been cut.

02:13:11.000 Like, their bone, they've been butchered.

02:13:13.000 So, they die and their bodies would...

02:13:15.000 Presumably their buddies or Cro-Magnon had a tendency to go eat them.

02:13:19.000 And they also find all these fractured bones, like busted bones, fractured skulls, fractured vertebrae.

02:13:25.000 Little survivors.

02:13:27.000 And you saw this in this book, and these guys kind of got wondering, like, why do they have this type of injury?

02:13:34.000 And eventually some doctor looks at the injuries that are common in Neanderthals, and he says, you know where I see that is rodeo riders. 0.62

02:13:45.000 And it's like the things that happen to people who are mixing it up with big critters.

02:13:52.000 And the theory that this guy puts forward, not Sykes, not the guy that wrote it.

02:13:57.000 Pull that up again.

02:13:58.000 What was his name again?

02:14:00.000 Chris Stringer.

02:14:01.000 Yeah, so I don't think Chris Stringer floats this idea, but he talks about a guy who floats this idea that they had a confrontational hunting style that Neanderthals did.

02:14:10.000 That they were in there, you know, tearing it up.

02:14:13.000 And Cro-Magnons had a little bit more of a, let's stay back, you know, we'll stay back and get them at a better time.

02:14:20.000 Well, Neanderthals are way closer to the rest of the animals than we are. 0.98

02:14:25.000 I mean, they were five feet tall, 200 plus pounds, big thick fucking bones. 0.98

02:14:31.000 You know what else he says? 0.99

02:14:31.000 They didn't have a lot of sexual dimorphism. 0.99

02:14:34.000 The males and females were much more similar.

02:14:36.000 Really?

02:14:37.000 Well, it probably had to be.

02:14:38.000 Yeah, females were in there hunting more.

02:14:40.000 Probably had to be survive.

02:14:41.000 Possibly.

02:14:41.000 Yeah, they weren't, like, just structurally the females were similar.

02:14:45.000 And so having that little run in with that moose was kind of, I felt like a little bit, in a positive way, I felt a little bit like, maybe like, it was like a Neanderthal experience.

02:14:55.000 But the Neanderthal thing is weird, man, because they find out all these things that we used to think they didn't do.

02:15:01.000 There's evidence that once they came into contact with Cro-Magnon, it was like they started picking up some of the things that they were into.

02:15:09.000 There's evidence that suggests that they had been around for hundreds of thousands of years, and all of a sudden dudes show up, like we show up, and all of a sudden they kind of got interested in decoration a little bit, got interested in art a little bit.

02:15:21.000 I mean, it's a theory that they were somehow interacting with us and were kind of like stealing our...

02:15:27.000 Makes sense.

02:15:28.000 Stealing our groove a little bit.

02:15:29.000 Well, I mean, you think about all the things that we use.

02:15:31.000 Guns, computers, this table. 1.00

02:15:34.000 We didn't build any of this shit. 1.00

02:15:36.000 Oh, yeah, yeah. 1.00

02:15:36.000 We figured it out from other really smart humans. 1.00

02:15:38.000 Yeah, you adopt.

02:15:39.000 And so they kind of came into...

02:15:41.000 Somehow, it was going on.

02:15:43.000 And there was some introgression.

02:15:44.000 He talks a lot about that in that book.

02:15:46.000 That there was...

02:15:47.000 There were...

02:15:49.000 He argues, and other people argue that this isn't the case, the argument there is that there was certainly some intro aggression.

02:15:54.000 Yeah, I've heard that, and I've also heard that it's a confusion, and that what it really is is common ancestry.

02:16:01.000 Yeah, I've heard all that.

02:16:03.000 So I'm not definitely...

02:16:04.000 When it comes to that kind of stuff, I'm not the guy...

02:16:08.000 Like, you do the same.

02:16:09.000 Like, I'm saying what some people say.

02:16:11.000 Right.

02:16:12.000 Do you know what I mean?

02:16:12.000 And some people say that, and it's an interesting idea, and all that stuff changes so fast.

02:16:17.000 I always hate to be like, this is what it was, you know, but...

02:16:19.000 You're talking about, you know, what is the most recent version of Neanderthals?

02:16:22.000 100,000 years?

02:16:23.000 No, they went out 30, 35. 35?

02:16:27.000 How the fuck could anybody know what the hell exactly happened 35,000 years ago? 0.96

02:16:31.000 It's too far. 0.95

02:16:32.000 He explains how...

02:16:34.000 He explains what they know so far.

02:16:35.000 Well, yeah, he explains how the people that have an opinion on it came to form their opinion.

02:16:40.000 Right.

02:16:40.000 That makes sense.

02:16:41.000 You know?

02:16:41.000 Yeah.

02:16:42.000 But for sure, look, I know men, and I know that if men lived with Neanderthals, somebody would have fucked one. 1.00

02:16:49.000 Oh, yeah. 0.99

02:16:51.000 I know dudes.

02:16:51.000 Yeah.

02:16:52.000 They would do it.

02:16:53.000 Even if it was sort of like an act of aggression, like you look at conquering forces, you know?

02:16:57.000 Yeah. 0.95

02:16:57.000 On one hand, they're coming into Congress because they despise them, but like dudes, conquering dudes will often find themselves, you know, like history's full of those examples, like a conquering army that's coming out to get like the worst people on the planet and all they want to do is annihilate them, but they also kind of want to have sex with them. 0.95

02:17:13.000 You know, it's like...

02:17:14.000 Did you ever see, there's one, I think he was an Australian anthropologist, very fringe guy, but he had this really funny take on Neanderthals that they were these super predators and that we hunted them into extinction.

02:17:27.000 Yeah.

02:17:28.000 And he proposes that they didn't look like people at all, they looked like gorillas. 0.97

02:17:33.000 That Cro-Magnon hunted them.

02:17:34.000 Yes.

02:17:35.000 Did you ever see that?

02:17:36.000 No, but I don't know if I've seen that guy's ideas, but I've seen the idea that that's the case, and what people point to is that they always find butcher marks, not always, but it's very common to find butcher marks on those bones, and also find where they crack the heads open, presumably to get the brain out.

02:17:52.000 Yeah, I wish I could remember killing Neanderthals. 0.99

02:17:55.000 I forget what the... 0.92

02:17:57.000 It'd be like if you shot a Yeti now, or not a Yeti, if you shot Sasquatch.

02:18:01.000 People would be pissed.

02:18:03.000 Oh, yeah.

02:18:04.000 You know?

02:18:05.000 Yeah.

02:18:05.000 But I bet you that Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal weren't as different.

02:18:09.000 There might not have been as many differences between those two as there would be between us and a Sasquatch, if you haven't run into one.

02:18:15.000 Pull up Them and Us.

02:18:16.000 Pull up some images.

02:18:17.000 The book's called Them and Us.

02:18:18.000 And his proposal was the eye sockets were much larger, the features were more simian, the bone structure was much closer to lower primates than ours, and we're just assuming, we anthropomorphize these Yeah.

02:18:50.000 Oh, that's what he thinks they look like?

02:18:51.000 Yeah.

02:18:52.000 That looks like something you'd have in your studio.

02:18:54.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:18:55.000 Yeah, like a Yeti or something.

02:18:58.000 This is his crazy idea. 0.96

02:19:00.000 I mean, most likely horseshit, but really kind of fascinating. 0.99

02:19:03.000 Fun horseshit, though. 1.00

02:19:04.000 Yeah, we don't have any soft tissue from these fucking guys. 1.00

02:19:06.000 We don't really know what the hell was going on. 1.00

02:19:08.000 We don't have their skin. 0.98

02:19:09.000 We can't compare the color and texture.

02:19:11.000 We don't really know.

02:19:12.000 I think the picture will become more clear.

02:19:14.000 Eventually.

02:19:16.000 I mean, because they get such sophisticated ways of looking at stuff.

02:19:18.000 Well, there was that one misinterpreted idea that I think a Harvard geneticist was saying that one day it could be possible and there may be an ethical consideration that we would have to ask a woman if she'd be willing to give birth to a Neanderthal baby.

02:19:35.000 And then it became, you know, distributed.

02:19:37.000 Harvard geneticist wants women to give birth to a Neanderthal.

02:19:40.000 Looking for volunteers!

02:19:41.000 And, like, they're going to place a Neanderthal baby in your body. 0.95

02:19:43.000 Like...

02:19:44.000 You know, that's not exactly what they're saying.

02:19:46.000 You would get so many women that would do it. 1.00

02:19:48.000 Fuck yeah! 1.00

02:19:49.000 For sure. 1.00

02:19:50.000 Just to become famous.

02:19:51.000 Look at what they think these things might have looked like.

02:19:54.000 Well, there's some footage of one.

02:19:56.000 Yeah.

02:19:57.000 Well, the idea is that, you know, we think that they looked like people.

02:20:01.000 He kind of goes out of the way to give them a real sinister appearance, though.

02:20:04.000 Well, look at the bone structure.

02:20:06.000 The differences in the bone structure.

02:20:07.000 Nah, yeah.

02:20:08.000 Thicker.

02:20:09.000 Yeah, he makes them look like monsters in a movie. 1.00

02:20:11.000 With little tiny dicks. 1.00

02:20:12.000 Interesting. 0.99

02:20:13.000 How come they have little dicks? 1.00

02:20:14.000 I would think that thing would have a giant dick. 1.00

02:20:18.000 Whatever. 1.00

02:20:18.000 Why am I thinking about neonatal dicks? 1.00

02:20:20.000 Tell me about your Mitch Hedberg story.

02:20:24.000 You know, the more I think about it, I'm going to try to tell it real quick because it's not that great of a story, but I had this girlfriend who had this fellowship she got in San Jose, California.

02:20:32.000 And so I was back and forth between Montana and San Jose all the time.

02:20:36.000 And there's always this marquee above this comedy house.

02:20:39.000 Oh, you told me this story.

02:20:40.000 I don't think you told it on the podcast, so go ahead.

02:20:42.000 There's this marquee above the comedy house and it kept saying, like, Mitch Hedberg, you know, March or Mitch Hedberg, whatever.

02:20:47.000 And it was always in the back of my head, like, man, I gotta get my ticket, gotta get my ticket.

02:20:50.000 And one day it says, like, we'll miss you, Mitch. 0.99

02:20:54.000 I'm like, son of a bitch, I thought it was coming up. 0.99

02:20:56.000 And I thought that it meant he came and performed and went home. 0.99

02:21:00.000 And I ran up to the window being like, why'd you guys have it on your marquee that he's coming to March when he's already...

02:21:06.000 And she said, no, man, he died this morning.

02:21:08.000 It's kind of a weird...

02:21:10.000 It's not a great story.

02:21:12.000 It feels that way to me.

02:21:14.000 There's the thing right there.

02:21:17.000 That was all over the country.

02:21:18.000 Oh, it was?

02:21:19.000 Yeah, they did those everywhere.

02:21:20.000 I think they did one at the Laugh Factory.

02:21:23.000 The Marquis of the Laugh Factory as well.

02:21:25.000 Yeah, man, he was funny.

02:21:26.000 One of my all-time favorites.

02:21:27.000 And clean, too.

02:21:29.000 Clean comedian.

02:21:30.000 Yeah, isn't that funny?

02:21:30.000 Yeah.

02:21:32.000 Have you gone on to listen to the comedian, the storyteller Jerry Clower that I'm always asking you to listen to?

02:21:36.000 Yeah, I've listened to him.

02:21:37.000 You don't like it?

02:21:38.000 It's funny.

02:21:39.000 It's all about putting it in the context.

02:21:40.000 He's a funny guy.

02:21:42.000 Yeah.

02:21:42.000 No, in the context.

02:21:43.000 I don't know why I thought.

02:21:44.000 Oh, I thought that just because, yeah, Mitch Hedberg.

02:21:45.000 Like, you could actually listen to Mitch Hedberg with your kid and your grandma.

02:21:49.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.99

02:21:50.000 He swears in the last one, the most recent one, he says quite a few fucks. 0.97

02:21:54.000 Yeah, but I mean... 0.98

02:21:55.000 That's not sexual.

02:21:56.000 Yeah, but yeah, he's just using them, you know?

02:21:58.000 Stoner humor.

02:21:59.000 Yeah, he was a brilliant guy.

02:22:01.000 A really unique comedian.

02:22:03.000 But to bring it all around... 0.98

02:22:04.000 I want you to bring around the pigs. 0.92

02:22:07.000 Yeah.

02:22:08.000 Well, that's what we're doing this weekend, man.

02:22:10.000 I'm fired up. 0.99

02:22:11.000 Like I told you, I shot 30 rounds today, 60 yesterday, and then 300 fucking arrows the day before. 0.99

02:22:18.000 My right arm is so useless right now. 0.98

02:22:21.000 I can't remember the last time my right shoulder was just sore. 0.99

02:22:23.000 It's good that you're shooting them. 0.70

02:22:25.000 I mean, that's a lot of shooting. 0.98

02:22:26.000 I mean, it's not a lot of shooting for guys that are really into shooting, but it's a lot of shooting.

02:22:30.000 It's good to get that level of proficiency.

02:22:34.000 I mean, just from repetition.

02:22:37.000 You learn how to do stuff through repetition.

02:22:38.000 I'm a big believer in preparation.

02:22:42.000 I don't believe in...

02:22:43.000 One of the things that I learned when I was young, when I was competing, when I was fighting... 0.90

02:22:48.000 When I wasn't in that good of shape, I was really fucking nervous.

02:22:51.000 But when I was in really good shape and I was really well trained, my nerves were considerably less. 0.89

02:22:56.000 And I think that's with everything.

02:22:59.000 You've got to be fully prepared.

02:23:01.000 Yeah, the guys I know the best at hunting, you go out and it has to be that you know you're going to Because if things get hard and things get bad and things aren't going your way, if you've already been going into it like you didn't know it was going to happen, it allows you to more quickly jump into that it didn't happen.

02:23:19.000 If you go into it like it has to happen, it will happen, it has to happen, then when things are sucky, you've You're still pursuing that narrative, you know?

02:23:27.000 It will happen.

02:23:28.000 When we were in Montana, you kept saying, we're going to get one.

02:23:31.000 You kept saying that.

02:23:32.000 We're going to get a deer.

02:23:33.000 You kept saying that, we're going to get a deer.

02:23:35.000 You said that many times.

02:23:37.000 I feel like what we're doing this weekend isn't going to be, you know...

02:23:43.000 Hunting wild pigs, I think there's going to be a lot of pigs.

02:23:47.000 This place, Tijon Ranch, I gather they have quite a bit of a pig population, enough to the point where people go out there and... 0.84

02:24:04.000 We're good to go.

02:24:16.000 You know, there's so much more fecund, you know?

02:24:19.000 Like a deer will go and a deer will go.

02:24:20.000 I've never used that word in my life.

02:24:21.000 What does that word mean?

02:24:22.000 Fecund?

02:24:23.000 They have a lot of babies.

02:24:24.000 Oh.

02:24:25.000 So like you take another animal, a native animal around here and be like, you know, black-tailed deer.

02:24:30.000 Does it have to do with the premise? 1.00

02:24:32.000 Does it start with fuck? 1.00

02:24:33.000 No, fecundity. 1.00

02:24:35.000 F-E-C-U-N-D. So like fecundity is, you know, good at making babies. 0.98

02:24:41.000 Yeah, it seems like the root is fuck. 1.00

02:24:44.000 Someone's lying. 1.00

02:24:45.000 You know, deer's going to have one or two a year.

02:24:47.000 Right.

02:24:48.000 That pig's going to, a female pig's going to keep kicking off litters of, you know, six, ten, several times a year. 1.00

02:24:56.000 What a powerful animal, too.

02:24:58.000 If they're, I mean, they're really, they're really something, I mean, they've gotten, they've through our, you know, through, I'm trying to put together an idea that's not actually that complicated.

02:25:12.000 Thanks to us, and in spite of us, at the same time, they've managed to get everywhere.

02:25:18.000 You know?

02:25:19.000 Like, oftentimes we just do it, like we thought it was a good idea for a long time to go put pigs everywhere.

02:25:24.000 Now we're like, maybe it wasn't such a good idea to put pigs everywhere.

02:25:27.000 And, you know, there's not a lot we're doing to stop them.

02:25:31.000 That's not the case here.

02:25:32.000 Like, in California, they're treated more like a game animal.

02:25:34.000 You know?

02:25:35.000 The number, like, when people travel, more people travel to California to hunt wild pigs than to hunt anything else.

02:25:41.000 Really?

02:25:41.000 And they just don't seem to really cause the level of damage and hysteria that they do in some other areas, like in certain areas in the southeast and the Gulf Coast area.

02:25:54.000 I mean, there's pigs to the point where it's just really hard on agricultural interests, and it's kind of inexplicable.

02:26:01.000 How they seem to be there for so long and then explode into some level. 0.97

02:26:05.000 But in California, there's some pigs around and people generally appreciate them.

02:26:10.000 I used to hunt pigs at, not used to, I still do, but I have a friend who's got some, her family has some cattle ranches up around Sacramento.

02:26:19.000 And he's kind of got this little bit like, yeah, you know, sometimes I get too many and I need to get rid of some, but then we'll get a dry year and they'll all go away anyway.

02:26:27.000 And I'd like it if you went out and shot some. 0.98

02:26:29.000 If you see one, shoot one for me. 0.99

02:26:31.000 And they kind of are causing me a little bit of problems. 0.99

02:26:34.000 And you can tell he has this conflicted relationship about them.

02:26:36.000 But I put it to him one day.

02:26:38.000 I said, Glenn, if you could shake a magic wand and all the wild pigs would be gone, would you shake it?

02:26:45.000 No.

02:26:46.000 You know?

02:26:47.000 So, he even admitted, like, they're a hassle.

02:26:49.000 He doesn't want a lot of them around, but he would never want to see them all gone.

02:26:53.000 You know?

02:26:54.000 And it feels kind of like the...

02:26:56.000 It's a great general...

02:26:57.000 It's a huge generalization.

02:26:58.000 But I feel like that's kind of been the relationship here.

02:27:00.000 There's a lot of hunters.

02:27:01.000 I get all kinds of emails from guys who live in California.

02:27:04.000 And they're like...

02:27:05.000 They went out pig hunting six times.

02:27:07.000 Never even saw a pig.

02:27:09.000 You know?

02:27:09.000 Hunting on public ground.

02:27:11.000 And these guys are wishing there was more of them.

02:27:14.000 And in other parts of the country, you got government agencies paying real money to try to wipe them out.

02:27:20.000 Because they cause such a problem with native species and agricultural interests.

02:27:25.000 But here it's a different vibe in California.

02:27:27.000 Have you seen the Pigman Ted Nugent footage?

02:27:31.000 I've seen clips of it, I haven't seen it.

02:27:32.000 I mean, I know everything, I know so much about it.

02:27:35.000 I mean, I have a show on that network, you know?

02:27:36.000 Yeah, they shoot, for folks who are just listening and don't know what we're talking about, they have, Pigman has a couple of episodes called Aporkalypse, where they shoot pigs at a helicopter's.

02:27:46.000 Lots of them.

02:27:47.000 He shot one with a bow and arrow out of a helicopter.

02:27:49.000 Did he kill it? 0.89

02:27:50.000 Yeah.

02:27:50.000 I saw that.

02:27:51.000 I knew that it happened, but I didn't know if it came to be that he got it and got it.

02:27:56.000 Well, he had to aim way high because the downdraft of the blades shoved the arrow down, so he had to judge it.

02:28:04.000 Recently, I heard that they're in a situation where they're going to be paying people by the hour to... 0.99

02:28:10.000 Kill pigs. 0.99

02:28:11.000 Yeah, I would imagine. 1.00

02:28:13.000 I mean, they have millions of pigs in Texas, apparently.

02:28:16.000 Well, they have a lot of farmland in Texas, too.

02:28:18.000 Yeah.

02:28:19.000 But they're...

02:28:20.000 It's like...

02:28:21.000 A weird thing about it...

02:28:23.000 The endangered species...

02:28:27.000 A weird thing about stuff like pigs and how, you know...

02:28:31.000 Just so, I don't know if...

02:28:32.000 I'm sure your viewers are somewhat up to speed on this, but...

02:28:34.000 Wild pigs are not native to North America.

02:28:38.000 People brought wild pigs to North America early on in the pioneer days or during the contact years.

02:28:46.000 They brought pigs to North America from their native in Eurasia, brought them here as a food source.

02:28:53.000 And they would keep some in pens and other people would have a practice where You'd go into an area and you'd just kind of turn pigs out.

02:29:00.000 They wouldn't scatter too far.

02:29:01.000 They'd fatten themselves on acorns and masts and grubs and various things. 0.99

02:29:05.000 And when you wanted one, you could take your rifle out and find a couple and shoot them.

02:29:09.000 And it was a way to produce meat where you weren't needing to provide it with all of its feed.

02:29:15.000 It was just a very sturdy animal that could fatten itself on land.

02:29:18.000 And inevitably, these pigs would get away. 0.79

02:29:21.000 So we've had wild pigs here about as long as we have had Europeans here. 1.00

02:29:28.000 Another version happened later where people brought them in as a game species.

02:29:32.000 When they would bring them in as a game species, they would bring them in from Siberia and other areas where you still had the original stock.

02:29:42.000 The original Sioux Scraffa was what we call the Eurasian wild boar. 0.96

02:29:46.000 They had been bringing in domestic versions that had been bred off the Eurasian wild boar.

02:29:52.000 And then people brought directly in the wild boar.

02:29:54.000 Now, if you look for a parallel with cattle, like the ancestral cattle is an animal we now call the oryx, but the oryx went extinct.

02:30:00.000 So we lost the wild version, but retained the domestic version.

02:30:04.000 With pigs, we had the domestic version that we humans created over long, long tens of thousands of years, coexisting with the wild version.

02:30:11.000 So people brought wild ones.

02:30:13.000 They brought some to New Hampshire in the late 1800s, early 1900s.

02:30:16.000 They brought some to California around that time and kind of put them out on the land as a thing to hunt.

02:30:23.000 And in time, we now have populations that are of domestic stock.

02:30:27.000 We have populations that are of Eurasian stock, so they look like a real souped-up European wild boar. 1.00

02:30:33.000 And we have populations that are various hybrids, so they demonstrate different degrees of it.

02:30:37.000 And they've been around a long time, and in some areas, there's way too many.

02:30:43.000 One troublesome thing that happens to me, and again, it's as complicated as shooting rhinos to save rhinos, Is it...

02:30:49.000 We've always had...

02:30:51.000 We've had over the last, you know...

02:30:55.000 150 years we've been developing this set of ethics.

02:30:58.000 What are acceptable practices to use when hunting?

02:31:02.000 And we've made a general determination that certain things aren't acceptable.

02:31:06.000 We don't jack-light deer.

02:31:08.000 You can't use spotlights to go out and shoot deer at night.

02:31:10.000 We've built up these rules because we have ideas about what's sporting, what's the elements of fair chase, also what leads to too much harvest.

02:31:19.000 So If you make it too easy to go get animals, then you're going to have shorter seasons.

02:31:26.000 You're going to have fewer available tags.

02:31:28.000 And so they kind of balance technology to sort of make it that you're going to have whatever success rate.

02:31:35.000 Like a lot of elk hunts, only 10% of the hunters that participate in the elk hunt are successful.

02:31:40.000 90% are unsuccessful because we have rules in place that make it difficult to do, to hunt.

02:31:47.000 There's so many pigs now in some places that we're like discarding a lot of the...

02:31:53.000 In dealing with that species, we're discarding a lot of the notions that we've held dear.

02:31:58.000 Like you would never go out in a helicopter and shoot deer.

02:32:01.000 It just would never be legal.

02:32:02.000 It would be frowned on by everybody in the hunting community.

02:32:05.000 But with pigs, it's like an exception because it's a non-native animal that we want to get rid of.

02:32:09.000 And so it really is like a...

02:32:11.000 It becomes kind of a cloudy issue.

02:32:12.000 Like when we're doing these like big game hunting practices that we...

02:32:16.000 We worked hard to get rid of in order to save North American wildlife from the pits where we had driven it in the early 1900s.

02:32:23.000 And now all these ethical practices are not really applicable to this animal.

02:32:30.000 So you see some things and see some things happen and your initial reaction is to be like, oh man, it's just ugly.

02:32:39.000 It's ugly.

02:32:39.000 But then you go like, but it's a really complicated situation.

02:32:42.000 There's a ton of pigs causing a ton of economic damage and it's really putting a hurt on people.

02:32:47.000 And it's putting a hurt on native species too.

02:32:49.000 Like we lose, like Hawaii lost ground nesting birds.

02:32:53.000 Many species of ground nesting birds because of pigs and rats, introduced species.

02:32:57.000 They just ate the eggs?

02:32:59.000 Yeah, and pigs are really hard.

02:33:00.000 There's like, you know, rare bird preserves in Florida where the number one problem they have in those preserves is pigs eat all the eggs.

02:33:07.000 Wow.

02:33:08.000 Because these are ground nesting birds and the pigs just vacuum them up.

02:33:11.000 So you bring like kind of these like practices that strike someone who grew up in the American hunting tradition and it's like, ugh, man.

02:33:19.000 I've even engaged in some things.

02:33:21.000 I've done things to wild pigs that I wouldn't do to any other animal.

02:33:25.000 Like what? 0.94

02:33:26.000 Running with dogs and killing them in knives and digging them out of holes and chasing them into little fenced enclosures and killing them in there. 0.99

02:33:35.000 It's like... 0.98

02:33:37.000 It's their legitimate, honest problem. 0.99

02:33:40.000 Your last show that I watched, last night actually, you had a pig. 1.00

02:33:46.000 It was a whole head-to-hoof pig cooking, wild pig cooking special.

02:33:51.000 It was a really fun special.

02:33:52.000 Very interesting and very educational. 0.95

02:33:54.000 You want to hear the story of that pig? 1.00

02:33:55.000 Yeah, the pig had his balls removed. 1.00

02:33:57.000 Yeah, so this is crazy. 1.00

02:33:59.000 I've gone down to Florida hunting turkeys.

02:34:03.000 There's multiple subspecies of the American turkey.

02:34:07.000 It's all one species, but there's subspecies or varieties.

02:34:09.000 You have the eastern wild turkey and most of the east.

02:34:13.000 The Osceola turkey, which lives in the south half of the Florida peninsula.

02:34:17.000 Then you have the Rio Grande turkey, the Miriam's turkey, the Gould's turkey in northern Mexico, southern Arizona.

02:34:24.000 If you're a turkey geek, You might want to try to eventually have the experience of hunting all turkey subspecies.

02:34:32.000 I had kind of accidentally got four of them, and I realized that I wanted to go to South Florida and have a chance to hunt Osceola.

02:34:37.000 So I went down to hunt Osceola down in the swamps down there, and we're down there, we run into these guys who hunt pigs with hounds.

02:34:44.000 What their setup is, this guy has a big cattle ranch, and it borders a rare bird preserve.

02:34:51.000 The preserve, you can't even walk around.

02:34:54.000 Most of the preserve is closed to any human visitation at all.

02:34:57.000 You can't even take a walk to there.

02:34:59.000 But they have a guy who's a full-time pig hunter in there.

02:35:02.000 He goes around and kills pigs as a way to try to protect these rare bird species and give them nesting opportunities.

02:35:09.000 The rancher who likes to hunt wild hogs He goes and he usually kind of hunts along his border with the preserve because the pigs will come out of the swamps in the preserve and come up and hunt and root around on his land in the cover of night and then retreat back into the preserve where they're relatively safe and hide out.

02:35:27.000 So what he realized is he went through and put this fence in and put trap doors, one-way doors in his fence so that pigs could leave the preserve and enter his fence and But then they couldn't get back out.

02:35:41.000 It was like a fish trap door.

02:35:43.000 So now and then if he gets itching to go pig hunting, he'll go out at four in the morning and make sure all the doors are shut, like closes the doors up so the pigs can't get back through the other way.

02:35:53.000 And then he knows they're probably somewhere on his ranch, and when he starts chasing one of his hounds, they won't be able to make it back into their safety in the preserve.

02:36:01.000 And when he goes out, if he gets a boar, like an old boar, It's got his nuts intact.

02:36:08.000 He knows it's not going to be a great eating boar.

02:36:11.000 Because they just, they run themselves, you know, they're not like, they don't have a lot of fat.

02:36:14.000 They're full of hormones. 0.53

02:36:16.000 They're not, they're certainly edible, but not as good at eating.

02:36:19.000 So what he'll do is he'll do something that benefits everyone. 0.75

02:36:23.000 He will castrate that hog and turn it out. 0.99

02:36:28.000 Because now that hog cannot contribute to the population.

02:36:30.000 He's not a viable breeding member of the population.

02:36:33.000 And if he catches them again, he'll have what's called a barred hog. 0.64

02:36:38.000 Barred hog, which is a castrated hog.

02:36:44.000 So like a steer is a castrated male, cow, castrated bull, and a barred hog is castrated.

02:36:52.000 So we went out one night and caught a big boar with his nuts intact. 0.97

02:36:57.000 We castrated him and turned him out so that he could, as this guy put it, it would take his mind off ass and put it on the grass. 0.98

02:37:05.000 And then we stayed out, caught another pig, and this one had at some point in time, they didn't even know if they had it or another guy had done it, this one had been castrated. 0.99

02:37:15.000 You wouldn't even have known.

02:37:15.000 It was totally healed up.

02:37:17.000 But he had been castrated and those guys were like, that'll be a good one to eat.

02:37:20.000 So we killed that hog and kept it for food.

02:37:24.000 And we ate that thing, from honest to God, we ate its skin as pork rinds, took its intestines out and flushed the intestines and stripped them, made our own sausage casings, liver, heart, ate his nose and head cheese,

02:37:40.000 ate his feet, like, ate every part of that hog.

02:37:43.000 Yeah, the head cheese.

02:37:44.000 Actually, the one thing I got left is one of the good parts.

02:37:46.000 I got one back leg frozen in my freezer.

02:37:49.000 I got one ham in my freezer.

02:37:50.000 I didn't know what head cheese was.

02:37:52.000 Barrel hog.

02:37:53.000 That's the word I'm looking for.

02:37:54.000 Barrel?

02:37:55.000 Barrel hog.

02:37:56.000 Well, let's look it up here.

02:37:58.000 Please.

02:37:59.000 I've even written the word.

02:38:00.000 I wrote a thing about this.

02:38:05.000 What is a castrated pig called?

02:38:09.000 Barred barrel hog. 0.85

02:38:10.000 Barred barrel hog.

02:38:13.000 B-A-R-R-O-W, Barrow Hog. 1.00

02:38:15.000 Barrow Hog. 0.97

02:38:16.000 Hmm.

02:38:17.000 Okay.

02:38:18.000 Barrow.

02:38:19.000 Yeah, B-A-R-R-O-W. Yeah, and these guys love to hunt and they love to eat pigs. 1.00

02:38:25.000 It's a good little system they got.

02:38:26.000 The head cheese was so weird.

02:38:28.000 I'd heard that name before, word, description.

02:38:32.000 I didn't know what it was.

02:38:33.000 It's like a gelatin.

02:38:34.000 Yep.

02:38:34.000 I made head cheese with the first wild pig I ever killed was in California.

02:38:39.000 I went out to hunt wild pigs, and I had never laid eyes on a wild pig, and I didn't want to shoot the first wild pig I saw.

02:38:44.000 So I went out one day without my rifle just to see some wild pigs, and the next day I went out and got one, and I wound up making head cheese with it, where it doesn't make a cheese, but it's like gelatinous.

02:38:55.000 So a lot of the cuts, like when you butcher an animal, a lot of the cuts that are chewier, that don't really make great steak, they're not that way because they have a lot of connective tissue and Fatty deposits, whatever.

02:39:09.000 They have stuff that like turns into collagen when you cook it.

02:39:11.000 Like turns into like a gelatin when you cook it.

02:39:13.000 So a head's full of that stuff.

02:39:15.000 And the bones have it.

02:39:16.000 And so you simmer that head for a long, long time.

02:39:18.000 And eventually you can pick off all the meat.

02:39:20.000 And a lot of the gristle and connective tissue and stuff turns into like a gelatin-like substance.

02:39:25.000 You can make real gelatin that way.

02:39:27.000 And now we just have a packet where you pour a powder out and mix it with water and mix gelatin.

02:39:30.000 But old-style gelatin and natural gelatin would be just derived as an animal byproduct.

02:39:37.000 So you take all the meat that you pluck off, the same way, you know, like hog jowl, if you ever had that.

02:39:42.000 You take the tongue out and chop the tongue up.

02:39:44.000 And there's all this other, when it's warm, it's liquid, but it sets up as gelatin.

02:39:49.000 And it's just all bound together with natural gelatin that you've derived by slow cooking the pig's head.

02:39:55.000 So it's like little bits of pig meat bound up in an Asperger bound up. 1.00

02:40:01.000 And then, of course, you season it and flavor it with all kinds of good stuff to eat.

02:40:04.000 And then when it sets up, when it's chilled, you can pour it out like a...

02:40:10.000 It looks almost like a fruitcake.

02:40:11.000 You know, it pours out in a mold, and then you slice it, and it's not cheese.

02:40:17.000 It looked great.

02:40:18.000 It looked great.

02:40:19.000 Yeah, my buddy that makes it, this guy, Matt Weingarten, the chef I hang out with, he puts all this amazing stuff to eat in there.

02:40:26.000 And he puts, you know, you can put, like, colorful things and, like, citrusy flavors and...

02:40:31.000 It's beautiful.

02:40:32.000 It looks great.

02:40:32.000 One of the things I really love about your show is that you occasionally do show recipes and how to cook, but also that you butcher the animals.

02:40:39.000 You cut quarter the animals, gut them.

02:40:41.000 You do all that on the show.

02:40:42.000 You don't shy away from that.

02:40:43.000 You see wild stuff on the show that you don't see on other stuff.

02:40:46.000 No.

02:40:46.000 It's amazing how much liberty we have How much the network lets us get away with?

02:40:55.000 Is it because it's on the Sportsman's channel?

02:40:57.000 Yeah, but there's another channel that shows hunting shows.

02:41:02.000 They won't let the people have bloody hands.

02:41:04.000 What show is that?

02:41:05.000 My understanding is not a show.

02:41:09.000 I've heard that there's another hunting network.

02:41:11.000 I've heard that it's protocol on other hunting networks.

02:41:13.000 You're not supposed to have bloody hands.

02:41:14.000 You won't see them gut animals. 0.99

02:41:15.000 That's ridiculous. 0.90

02:41:17.000 Because they think that it would make people turned off by hunting. 0.92

02:41:20.000 It's like, how you think people get turned off by hunting by seeing people eat what they hunt is beyond me.

02:41:25.000 But Sportsman Channel is really cool because they let us do stuff that, I mean, and it works to the advantage because people are like, you know what?

02:41:30.000 I get it, man.

02:41:31.000 You know?

02:41:32.000 It's like you're showing like a thing that most people are hiding from, but it's the reality that...

02:41:37.000 Meat goes through a metamorphosis, you know, to get there, and it's sometimes gory.

02:41:41.000 So we, yeah, we get to show all that, and I love it.

02:41:44.000 But I don't think of it as just, like, gratuitous.

02:41:47.000 No.

02:41:48.000 It's like, it's instructional, really.

02:41:49.000 Yes, yeah, that's how I feel.

02:41:51.000 I don't feel it's gratuitous at all, but I think, I like watching you, like, when you ate that moose.

02:41:57.000 I like watching you guys cut it up and then eat it.

02:41:59.000 Yeah, dude, that meat was, like, unbelievable, man.

02:42:02.000 We had that marrow, cracked the marrow bones open.

02:42:05.000 It looked delicious. 0.95

02:42:06.000 It looked ridiculous. 0.80

02:42:08.000 Like, that meat was so tender and good. 0.52

02:42:11.000 And, you know, you get into the thing where you guys, when you're on TV, you know, you watch, like, morning shows, and they have a cooking segment.

02:42:19.000 The host, I was like, oh, it's so good.

02:42:21.000 Oh, it's so good.

02:42:22.000 You know?

02:42:23.000 Sometimes I cook stuff on the show that's not good.

02:42:25.000 And I used to try to be like, that's not good.

02:42:26.000 Like coyote?

02:42:27.000 Yeah, I was like, you know, it's not that great.

02:42:29.000 Because I want it to be that when something is good, I feel like I want people to believe me, and that was good.

02:42:34.000 It was just a phenomenal moose, man.

02:42:36.000 It looked unbelievably delicious.

02:42:37.000 Elk's widely regarded as, like, if you went and surveyed people who've tasted a wide variety of meats, elk is the one that people would be like, it's the best one.

02:42:45.000 Where we're going, Teehan, has elk on it, tule elk.

02:42:48.000 Yeah.

02:42:49.000 You know, you got, like, Roosevelt elk, Rocky Mountain, these different subspecies of elk.

02:42:53.000 There's a very rare one in California.

02:42:55.000 Not rare, but, yeah, rare and a very small range.

02:42:58.000 That was almost wiped out.

02:43:00.000 It's back now because you have big chunks of property like that where they can find some refuge and people are working to maintain them and provide habitat for them.

02:43:10.000 So it's kind of a cool spot.

02:43:10.000 You'll go there and see an elk that most people haven't seen.

02:43:14.000 I hope we run into one because it's like the Thule elk. 0.93

02:43:17.000 Do you feel like the moose was right up there with elk?

02:43:22.000 I'm not joking.

02:43:23.000 It was one of the best pieces of meat I've eaten.

02:43:25.000 And to eat meat in the field...

02:43:27.000 We age meat because it tenderizes.

02:43:30.000 Fresh meat often tastes like iron.

02:43:32.000 Well, you eat some fresh meat.

02:43:33.000 Rich, there's like an iron kind of thing to it.

02:43:36.000 It just doesn't quite taste like aged meat.

02:43:38.000 I like that.

02:43:38.000 But when we were in Wisconsin, man, you were cooking those steaks, and it was phenomenal, though.

02:43:42.000 Yeah.

02:43:42.000 But sometimes it's pretty tough.

02:43:44.000 My brother lives in Alaska.

02:43:47.000 He kills moose every year.

02:43:48.000 The guy kills moose, eats moose all year.

02:43:50.000 He's a moose snob. 0.90

02:43:51.000 He won't hunt a lot of stuff.

02:43:52.000 He likes to hunt moose and doll sheep, because moose is good.

02:43:55.000 But he puts a moose in his freezer, just because he doesn't have a...

02:44:00.000 He doesn't have a locker where he can dry-age his meat.

02:44:03.000 He'll kill a moose because of weather and bugs and other issues.

02:44:06.000 He comes home and right away processes his moose and puts it in his freezer.

02:44:11.000 And he don't usually touch that thing for six months.

02:44:13.000 Because it will slowly age, like meat will tenderize in your freezer over time.

02:44:18.000 So when he calculates his year out, he knows he's going to kill a moose in September.

02:44:22.000 He doesn't plan on having the one he killed before be gone in September.

02:44:27.000 He plans on having the one he killed before be gone, you know, staggered.

02:44:31.000 So the one that he kills, he lets it slowly age in his freezer and it will tenderize in your freezer over time and then he starts in on the new one.

02:44:38.000 So when he kills a moose, he's still eating the moose from the year before.

02:44:41.000 That seems so weird because the way you ate that moose, it didn't seem like it needed anything at all.

02:44:46.000 Because it was an exceptional animal.

02:44:47.000 Oh, so that's unusual.

02:44:49.000 Yeah, those animals, like most animals, especially males and bulls, like most animals, not most, animals benefit, like ungulates, Benefit from aging.

02:45:02.000 You don't age wild pigs.

02:45:04.000 You don't age black bears.

02:45:06.000 A lot of critters you do age.

02:45:08.000 Deer, elk, moose, it all benefits.

02:45:10.000 Those animals all benefit from aging.

02:45:12.000 There's natural enzymes or whatever that the process is well understood.

02:45:17.000 I don't understand it totally well, but it's well understood that you hang it and there's a natural decay.

02:45:22.000 I'll put ducks.

02:45:23.000 If I kill a duck, I'll gut the duck.

02:45:28.000 If I have like a wife or if I have a girlfriend or whoever doesn't want it or when I had, what am I trying to say? 0.97

02:45:35.000 Forget it.

02:45:35.000 I'll gut the duck and put it in the fridge.

02:45:37.000 Now I might need to put it in a paper bag because someone might not want to see the duck every time they open the fridge.

02:45:42.000 But I'll roll it up in a paper bag so I can still breathe and I'll put it in my fridge and I'll leave it in there a long time.

02:45:47.000 I might leave it in there 10 days.

02:45:50.000 And that meat gets to where you could scrape it away with your thumb.

02:45:56.000 The inside, the gutting where you've gutted the bird might start to even smell a little off.

02:46:01.000 But the meat is getting just perfect.

02:46:04.000 The flavor enhances.

02:46:06.000 It gets more tender.

02:46:07.000 It's just like aging.

02:46:08.000 So why was that move so good then?

02:46:10.000 I don't know.

02:46:11.000 Just what it was eating?

02:46:12.000 Just good.

02:46:13.000 We had a great piece off.

02:46:16.000 We were eating the most tender part of the rear leg.

02:46:19.000 It was just a great animal.

02:46:21.000 There's so much variability.

02:46:23.000 That's one thing about being a wild game chef.

02:46:26.000 I'm a wild game cook.

02:46:27.000 I think chef sounds a little more formal, but I'm a wild game cook.

02:46:30.000 One thing about being a wild game cook that's more challenging...

02:46:33.000 than being a regular cook is you're dealing with so much variability.

02:46:37.000 Like you get some great chef and he can do some amazing thing because he's got a purveyor, you know, and when he buys a pig, it's like the pig ate this for 72 days and then we ate this for 14 days and then we killed it on this day and chilled it at this temperature for these many days and,

02:46:52.000 you know, and every time he buys a pig, the pig comes in his kitchen or his restaurant and he knows, he just knows what it's going to be like, you know.

02:47:01.000 Animals, you don't know what kind of There's age issues and what kind of trip they've been on.

02:47:06.000 There's all kinds of variability.

02:47:07.000 So you learn how to kind of control that and sort of bring the ingredients into line because some animals are good and some animals aren't.

02:47:13.000 I shot a mule deer one time that was just disgusting to eat things.

02:47:19.000 And then you get another mule deer and it's like, that is so good.

02:47:22.000 That one was delicious.

02:47:23.000 That's what I'm saying, man.

02:47:24.000 And then some, you know, it's like you don't know what they've been up to or there's just a lot of mystery with it.

02:47:29.000 But that moose was a phenomenal moose.

02:47:32.000 I've also had my buddy.

02:47:34.000 He was my buddy.

02:47:35.000 We had a fallen out.

02:47:35.000 I used to know this guy.

02:47:36.000 He killed a moose.

02:47:37.000 He brought the meat over.

02:47:38.000 I thought he'd killed the Loch Ness Sea Monster.

02:47:41.000 It was like, I'd never seen anything like it.

02:47:44.000 Just funky and nasty.

02:47:45.000 He had a cow tag. 0.69

02:47:47.000 See, one thing about shooting males on antlered game is you can get an idea of age.

02:47:51.000 The antlers betray the age.

02:47:54.000 There's a growth pattern they go through.

02:47:56.000 Like, if you see a forky deer or a spike horn deer, it's like, that's a one and a half year old deer.

02:48:00.000 He's going to be great eating.

02:48:01.000 When you're shooting antler lists, the clues are much more subtle.

02:48:07.000 What a guy looked at the tooth.

02:48:08.000 So he had a cow moose tag.

02:48:09.000 He went on and got a cow moose.

02:48:10.000 He later had someone look at the teeth and they estimated that thing to be 20 years old.

02:48:14.000 Oh my god.

02:48:16.000 It was like you couldn't really chew it.

02:48:17.000 It tasted like a sea monster.

02:48:21.000 Do you know what I mean?

02:48:22.000 Because it's really hard to tell.

02:48:24.000 There's guys that really know their business.

02:48:26.000 Like Doug Dern in Wisconsin.

02:48:28.000 Doug Dern can look at a doe and tell you how old it is. 1.00

02:48:30.000 He's looked at so many damn deer. 0.97

02:48:33.000 He's looking at so many deer that live on his place that he just knows what their groove is, you know? 0.99

02:48:38.000 Isn't it a weird sort of symbiotic relationship that those deer have to farmers?

02:48:42.000 It's almost not really a wild animal.

02:48:44.000 No.

02:48:44.000 Canada geese, crows, white-tailed deer love people.

02:48:51.000 Yeah, when we were at Doug's place, I mean, first of all, what a fucking great guy he is. 0.97

02:48:55.000 I love Doug. 0.95

02:48:56.000 Man, he's one of the best.

02:48:57.000 I love that guy.

02:48:57.000 He's one of the best.

02:48:58.000 And I love his place.

02:49:00.000 Like a big...

02:49:02.000 I don't say this about many people.

02:49:04.000 I don't throw this around lately, but I was like, he's a big-hearted guy.

02:49:07.000 Do you know what I mean?

02:49:08.000 It's not something I really think of when I'm describing other individuals.

02:49:12.000 Yeah, no.

02:49:12.000 I'm so glad you introduced me to him.

02:49:14.000 He's awesome.

02:49:15.000 And it was so cool, me and Brian Callen staying at his place, that he let us do that and filmed the show there. 0.71

02:49:23.000 Goddamn, there's a lot of deer up there, too. 0.97

02:49:25.000 Jesus Christ. 1.00

02:49:27.000 I mean, we didn't see a lot of big bucks, but goddamn, we saw a lot of deer. 0.99

02:49:30.000 And you... 0.98

02:49:30.000 I told you about this, I think, or he did. 0.98

02:49:33.000 When he was a kid, if you saw a deer track, you ran home and told your parents.

02:49:37.000 Wow.

02:49:37.000 There are no freaking deer around.

02:49:39.000 Well, they've fucking grown in population. 0.99

02:49:41.000 We saw 16 the first day, right? 0.99

02:49:43.000 We saw about 16 deer, at least.

02:49:45.000 But, I mean, he'll...

02:49:46.000 Yeah, I mean, it's just...

02:49:47.000 That's like a real deery spot.

02:49:50.000 But they do have...

02:49:51.000 That's the perfect word. 0.95

02:49:52.000 They have a symbiotic relationship.

02:49:54.000 Whitetail deer have really...

02:49:56.000 Are one of the winners when it comes to development issues.

02:50:00.000 And then our good friend the mule deer, which to me, it's a more romantic kind of thing.

02:50:05.000 Mule deer, and some people would be like, oh yeah, but we have mule deer in my yard all the time.

02:50:08.000 I know.

02:50:09.000 But generally, they don't do as well with fragmentation.

02:50:15.000 They don't do as well with the stress.

02:50:19.000 They have some things they like to eat, and they're kind of wed to those things they like to eat.

02:50:22.000 And whitetails are like...

02:50:23.000 Hell yeah, mow that down, I'll eat corn, you know?

02:50:26.000 They're just like, they're always going to find something, and that place is just like a deer culture down there.

02:50:30.000 Well, there's a lot of places like that in this country.

02:50:32.000 Oh yeah, all over the place.

02:50:33.000 A lot of farmlands, right?

02:50:34.000 Like Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, a lot of farmland, a lot of crazy white-tailed deer.

02:50:39.000 Yeah, you got way, way, way more white-tailed deer than you had at the time of European contact.

02:50:43.000 Way more, right?

02:50:44.000 Yeah.

02:50:44.000 That's nuts.

02:50:45.000 But still, if every dude in America went out and shot a deer, we'd be running like a 200 million deer deficit.

02:50:50.000 Really?

02:50:51.000 Oh yeah.

02:50:52.000 Wow.

02:50:53.000 So people say to me, like, so you think everyone should go out and shoot their own meat?

02:50:56.000 I'm like, well, we really couldn't.

02:50:57.000 We'd run out of critters.

02:50:58.000 It's going to always be like a fringe activity.

02:51:02.000 I think it's always going to be a fringe activity anyway, as long as society keeps going the way it is.

02:51:06.000 Oh, no, I'm not worried.

02:51:07.000 I'm not worried.

02:51:08.000 I don't stay up.

02:51:09.000 One of my goals, not a goal, but a thing I'd like to see happen is...

02:51:14.000 Rather than, I mean, we could definitely have more hunters.

02:51:17.000 I think we need more just to have political clout to defend our lifestyle.

02:51:19.000 But I also would like to see the people who have no interest in hunting come to, like, through understanding kind of the mechanics of wildlife, start to recognize it as that hunting is legitimate.

02:51:33.000 Useful practice and not the opposite, you know?

02:51:36.000 I think people that pay attention do see that.

02:51:38.000 I think for the most part, the real issue is that most people have this sort of periphery view of it.

02:51:43.000 They don't really look at it.

02:51:45.000 They don't get in there and try to understand, okay, what is hunting?

02:51:47.000 What's going on with it?

02:51:48.000 I know, like I said, my own personal transformation from looking at deer, like, why would you kill that beautiful animal? 1.00

02:51:54.000 To, oh, you have to kill him. 0.99

02:51:56.000 Okay, I get it. 1.00

02:51:57.000 To understanding what's going on.

02:51:59.000 Oh, well that actually keeps the population in check.

02:52:00.000 Well, if you don't do that, they run out of food.

02:52:02.000 Well, then there's the massive strain on the resources.

02:52:05.000 Well, there's no predators.

02:52:07.000 Yeah, wild fluctuations.

02:52:08.000 I didn't get it.

02:52:09.000 I had to look into it.

02:52:10.000 But when you do look into it, the only people that don't get it are the people that don't want to.

02:52:15.000 Whether it's for moral, political, whatever reasons, whatever bias you have coming into it.

02:52:22.000 If you look at it objectively, I don't see how you could...

02:52:26.000 I don't see how you can not get it.

02:52:28.000 No, I think anyone who looks at wildlife politics in a way that's, like, immersive and you have to come to understand it, you go ask someone who runs a wildlife agency, like a state wildlife agency or federal wildlife agency, and ask them what their job would be like without having hunting as a tool,

02:52:46.000 and, you know, it would make them shudder.

02:52:49.000 Because you just, you know, it's going to be very difficult to maintain...

02:52:57.000 The portfolio of different species we have at the levels we have.

02:53:01.000 You'd have to be open to having really wild fluctuations, having cycles of disease, and things that aren't as pretty.

02:53:08.000 And also, why?

02:53:09.000 Why deny ourselves access to a renewable resource that generates so much revenue?

02:53:16.000 It generates economic activity.

02:53:18.000 It's self-sustaining.

02:53:20.000 It helps pay for itself.

02:53:21.000 And it's fun.

02:53:22.000 People don't want to say that for whatever reason.

02:53:24.000 They don't want to say killing animals is fun.

02:53:26.000 Seems like it's a mean thing to say.

02:53:28.000 Yeah, I love hunting, man.

02:53:29.000 It's fun.

02:53:31.000 You're not being mean.

02:53:33.000 It's an exciting activity that speaks to your DNA. I always tell people, I'll talk about the food element of it.

02:53:41.000 I wouldn't hunt if it wasn't for the food.

02:53:43.000 I wouldn't hunt if it wasn't for the fun.

02:53:45.000 Yeah.

02:53:45.000 You know what I mean?

02:53:46.000 It's both.

02:53:47.000 It's exciting.

02:53:48.000 And you can watch The Meat Eater online now, finally.

02:53:50.000 You can pay for them.

02:53:51.000 For the longest time, you can only get them on DVD. But now, if you go to meateater.vhx.tv or go to themeateater.com, you can get them.

02:54:01.000 They're selling them as a bundle.

02:54:02.000 And Volume 4 is the bundle that the two-part episode with me and Brian Callen in Montana...

02:54:08.000 I should say Brian Callen and I... And if you use the code word Rogan...

02:54:12.000 No, no, you shouldn't say that.

02:54:14.000 No?

02:54:14.000 Why's that?

02:54:15.000 Just picture that you're saying it without Callan.

02:54:16.000 What would you say?

02:54:18.000 Uh, Brian Callen and I? No, picture you're saying it.

02:54:21.000 Me?

02:54:21.000 You wouldn't say it features I. Brian Callen and me?

02:54:24.000 I would say Brian Callen and me, though.

02:54:26.000 Yeah, picture what you'd say without the other guy there.

02:54:28.000 Right, right, right.

02:54:29.000 You would say me.

02:54:30.000 You would say me, but you would say him first, right?

02:54:32.000 Yeah, but I'm talking about the me, I thing.

02:54:34.000 Okay, okay.

02:54:35.000 I meant, I was just saying the, um, I was just trying to put him first.

02:54:37.000 Oh, you were worried about the sequence, not the pronoun.

02:54:40.000 Yes, yes.

02:54:40.000 Not the pronoun use.

02:54:41.000 Sorry.

02:54:42.000 Yeah, you're correct, though.

02:54:43.000 Me is the right way to say it.

02:54:44.000 I fuck that up all the time, though. 0.98

02:54:45.000 I don't even pay attention to it.

02:54:46.000 I know the rule, but I don't care about it.

02:54:48.000 I ain't concerned with it.

02:54:50.000 You ain't.

02:54:51.000 Volume 4. Use the code word ROGEN. Get them all, though.

02:54:54.000 It's a great fucking show. 0.99

02:54:55.000 It's not just a great hunting show. 1.00

02:54:57.000 It's a great show.

02:54:58.000 I was saying it to my wife the other day while I was watching.

02:55:00.000 I was like, this show, it's almost like I want more people to see it.

02:55:04.000 I wish more people would see it because it would open their eyes as to...

02:55:08.000 Your approach, it's a more intelligent philosophy behind it.

02:55:13.000 You see all these hunting shows like, well I'll tell you what, there's a big buck came out, I'll tell you what, we shot him with that gun, I'll tell you what. 1.00

02:55:21.000 You don't have any of that stupid shit in it. 0.99

02:55:24.000 It's interesting, it's fascinating, you're a well-read, introspective guy, and I love the narration on it too. 1.00

02:55:31.000 It's a great fucking show. 0.98

02:55:32.000 Thank you, man. 0.99

02:55:33.000 I like it.

02:55:35.000 I would watch that show if I wasn't in it.

02:55:36.000 I would watch it.

02:55:38.000 I do watch it. 1.00

02:55:39.000 It's a great fucking show. 1.00

02:55:40.000 You are in it sometimes. 0.99

02:55:41.000 One of my favorite shows ever.

02:55:42.000 In my inbox right now is the first cut of an initial pass on the Wisconsin hunt.

02:55:48.000 Really?

02:55:49.000 Oh, awesome.

02:55:50.000 We had a good time in Wisconsin. 0.99

02:55:51.000 That was a lot of fucking fun. 0.99

02:55:52.000 We'll have to talk about that someday. 0.98

02:55:53.000 Yes, we'll talk about that before it comes out.

02:55:55.000 Meeater.vhx.tv.

02:55:59.000 And again, use the code word ROGAN and you'll save five bucks.

02:56:03.000 And Volume 4 is the one with Brian Callen and me.

02:56:08.000 You nailed it.

02:56:09.000 Audible.com.

02:56:11.000 Thank you to Audible.com.

02:56:12.000 Go there. 0.98

02:56:13.000 Download some cool shit. 0.98

02:56:14.000 Go to Audible.com forward slash Joe. 0.99

02:56:17.000 Get yourself a free audio book and 30 free days of Audible service.

02:56:22.000 And thanks also to Onnit.com.

02:56:25.000 That's O-N-N-I-T. Use the code word ROGAN and save 10% off any supplements.

02:56:31.000 We will be back.

02:56:33.000 We have a very full week next week. 0.99

02:56:35.000 A lot of shit going on. 0.99

02:56:38.000 Oh, boy. 1.00

02:56:39.000 I got Neil Brennan, John Hackleman, and Peter Schiff, the economist, is going to be here on Wednesday.

02:56:45.000 That should be interesting.

02:56:46.000 What is he, economist?

02:56:47.000 He's an expert on the economy.

02:56:49.000 John Hackleman, trainer of many, many great fighters, including one of the greatest ever in Chuck Liddell.

02:56:55.000 And Neil Brennan, our pal, stand-up comedian and co-creator of The Chappelle Show.

02:56:59.000 All right, folks.

02:57:01.000 We love you.

02:57:02.000 And Steve Rinell and I are going to go bring home the bacon.

02:57:05.000 Okay.

02:57:06.000 Literally.

02:57:06.000 See you soon.

02:57:07.000 Big kiss.

The Joe Rogan Experience - January 17, 2014

Joe Rogan Experience #442 - Steven Rinella

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Summary

Transcript