The Joe Rogan Experience


Joe Rogan Experience #502 - Dr. Rhonda Patrick


Summary

Comedian Dr. Rhonda Patrick joins Joe on The Joe Rogan Experience this week to talk about anxiety and how it s actually good for you. Plus, how to get rid of your anxiety and get a good night's rest. Thanks to our sponsor, Stamps, we re saving you 80% off your first box of stamps! Use promo code JREe to save up to 80% on your first order of stamps, and you ll get up to $55 of free postage! This offer ends on December 31st, 2019. To find a list of our sponsors and show-related promo codes, go to josephcrane.co/OurAdvertisers and use promo code JOEYRJREe at checkout to get 10% all year long off your entire order of $50 or more! Thanks again to Stamps for sponsoring this episode of the show. This episode is brought to you in part 1 of a two-part mini-series on anxiety and depression. If you like what you hear, please HIT SUBSCRIBE and leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts! We re listening to your favorite streaming platform so we can keep bringing you quality, high-quality episodes of comedy and stand-up comedy! Please rate, review, and subscribe to our podcast! Thank you so much for listening and share the show! Cheers, Joe and Joe. - Caitie. Caitie, Caitie and Joe - Christina Pazitsky Tom Segura Brian Redband Joe Rogans, Matt, Joe, Jr., Sarah, , Christina, etc., & Joe, Sr., etc, etc., etc. , etc., & so much love, Joe, etc. & so on and so much more! <3 & much more. Thanks for listening, Joe & Jen, etc, so much gratitude, love, Jeni, etc.. XOXO, JUICY, JACOBY, KEVIN PZ & JAMIE, JOBY. & KAREN PASHTO , JOSIAE AND SO MUCH MORE! - THE PODCASTING, JOE RYAN AND KELLY, RYANA PASCHEY JOSH MILLER


Transcript

00:00:03.000 Oh, hello, freaks.
00:00:05.000 Yes, we are back again.
00:00:07.000 Did you miss us?
00:00:08.000 No, you couldn't have missed us.
00:00:09.000 We've been doing this shit all week.
00:00:10.000 This is ridiculous.
00:00:11.000 This is the longest run of podcasts ever for me.
00:00:14.000 There's four of them in the top ten right now.
00:00:16.000 Four out of this.
00:00:18.000 That's crazy.
00:00:18.000 We have four podcasts.
00:00:20.000 That sounds like bragging.
00:00:21.000 That's a lot of pressure for me.
00:00:24.000 There's no pressure, Dr. Patrick.
00:00:27.000 Worry not.
00:00:28.000 This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience is brought to you by Stamps.com.
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00:01:33.000 We use Stamps.com.
00:01:35.000 Tom Segura and Christina Pazitsky use Stamps.com.
00:01:38.000 Brian Redband uses Stamps.com.
00:01:40.000 To send out the deskquad.tv t-shirts that he sells.
00:01:43.000 And with this no-risk trial, using the promo code JRE, you will get a $110 bonus offer, which includes a digital scale and up to $55 of free postage.
00:01:55.000 So do not wait.
00:01:57.000 Go to Stamps.com, and before you do anything else, click on the old-school microphone in the upper right-hand corner, and type in JRE. That's Stamps.com.
00:02:09.000 And enter J-R-E. Save yourself some money.
00:02:14.000 And that's the only goddamn commercial we're doing today.
00:02:17.000 How about that?
00:02:18.000 Cue the music, young Jamie.
00:02:20.000 Dr. Rhonda Patrick is here.
00:02:21.000 We're gonna find some shit out about health.
00:02:35.000 Hello, Rhonda.
00:02:36.000 Hello, Joe.
00:02:37.000 You're the only person that's ever come in, sat down, and said, oh, this is good.
00:02:41.000 I'm getting a cortisol rush.
00:02:43.000 She said you're getting a cortisol rush from the feeling of about to do a podcast.
00:02:47.000 Yeah, actually, I could have gone a little more detail, but I was like, oh.
00:02:51.000 Please do.
00:02:51.000 Yeah, you know, so that feeling of anxiety, you know, that, like, you get before you get on stage.
00:02:58.000 I mean, you're a comedian.
00:02:59.000 I'm sure you're really familiar with that.
00:03:00.000 You actually are expressing a chemical called dynorphin.
00:03:05.000 And there's an endogenous chemical in your brain, and it binds to something called the kappa opioid receptor.
00:03:11.000 It's kind of like the counter of the endorphin, which binds to the mu opioid receptor.
00:03:16.000 So the endorphins are the feel-good, while its nemesis is the dynorphin, which is that anxiety-like feeling.
00:03:23.000 But here's the interesting part.
00:03:25.000 That anxiety-like feeling that you feel before you're going to do something that you care about or that's kind of anxiety-provoking, for me, public speaking, I get it right before I'm going to give a talk or something or do a podcast in front of 500,000 people.
00:03:44.000 So that dynorphin binding to the kappa opioid receptor, what it does is it upregulates the mu opioid receptor so that after you get that anxiety feeling, You have a better endorphin rush because you upregulate the mu opioid receptors, which bind to the endorphins,
00:04:00.000 the feel-good ones, and you actually become sensitized to them.
00:04:03.000 So there's a biological mechanism by which having that anxiety actually does you good.
00:04:09.000 So it's kind of like a stress at first, but then later on you feel better and you're more relaxed.
00:04:16.000 That's amazing.
00:04:17.000 You know, that's interesting because one of the best feelings ever is after you compete.
00:04:22.000 Like when you fight, one of the things that people get addicted to is you get addicted to the rush, for sure, the adrenaline rush, and you get addicted to just the challenge of competition being life magnified on such an incredible scale that everything else seems kind of pale in comparison.
00:04:40.000 But the big addiction, I think, is the feeling that you get after you compete, especially if you win.
00:04:46.000 There's just an amazing feeling.
00:04:48.000 Life is incredible.
00:04:50.000 The ground feels better under your feet.
00:04:54.000 The colors and the trees look better.
00:04:57.000 Everything looks better for a couple days.
00:04:58.000 Yeah, I know.
00:04:58.000 I totally know what you're talking about, and there's a biological mechanism for that.
00:05:02.000 And it's interesting because it's also the same mechanism that occurs when you are working out really hard.
00:05:08.000 I mean, it's painful while you're doing it.
00:05:10.000 But the more pain you experience, the better the rush.
00:05:13.000 It's the endorphin high people talk about.
00:05:15.000 It's actually that mechanism is anxiety-inducing, stress-inducing is an important factor in that because of this mechanism I talk about where you upregulate those receptors that bind to the endorphins and you're sensitizing them, so they become more sensitized to them.
00:05:29.000 So heat does the same thing, heat stress.
00:05:33.000 So exercise capsaicin, so eating spicy food.
00:05:36.000 It's painful while you're eating it, but what happens is you're upregulating those mu-opioid receptors and you're sensitizing them to the endorphins, which is why you feel really good after eating spicy food.
00:05:46.000 Oh, that's what that is.
00:05:47.000 Yeah.
00:05:47.000 I never knew what that was.
00:05:49.000 That's interesting because I always thought it just tasted good, like a kind of a weird, cool, good, spicy taste.
00:05:55.000 I'm sure there's dopamine responses and all that stuff involved.
00:05:58.000 I mean, there's complex mechanisms and things going on in your brain, but when you're eating or when you...
00:06:04.000 Pleasure when you enjoy a certain taste of a food.
00:06:06.000 But this particular mechanism where you've got this dynorphin and endorphin connection, it's really interesting.
00:06:14.000 And I think it's something I discussed in a recent article that I wrote about the sauna.
00:06:20.000 So I hope people find it interesting because I think it's interesting.
00:06:23.000 It's not something people know about.
00:06:25.000 It is.
00:06:25.000 It's gotten some really good responses too.
00:06:27.000 I've read it and I've read a lot of the responses.
00:06:30.000 People found it pretty fascinating when you were talking about it on the podcast.
00:06:33.000 It's kind of almost like the yin and yang of life is what you're talking about here.
00:06:38.000 It's like you need to have some negative in order to feel some extra positive.
00:06:42.000 Right.
00:06:42.000 Are you familiar with hormesis?
00:06:46.000 I've heard the term, but I couldn't describe it if somebody asked me to.
00:06:49.000 So what it means, you mean?
00:06:50.000 Yes.
00:06:51.000 Okay, so hormesis, what it really refers to is having a little bit of stress, something that's a little toxic for you, something that's a little stressful on your body.
00:07:01.000 I mean, exercise for sure is that heat is a little stressful.
00:07:04.000 Things in some of the foods we eat, like the EGCGs and green tea or polyphenols in some of the fruits and also in red wine, these things are actually a little bit toxic to our body.
00:07:15.000 And what happens is that this induces stress response mechanisms in our body.
00:07:21.000 We're good to go.
00:07:39.000 So it's kind of, like, interesting to think about adding a little bit of something that's toxic to, you know, get a better response.
00:07:47.000 That's fascinating.
00:07:48.000 You were talking about that last time we were here about mycotoxins, that, in fact, mycotoxins in a small dose might induce that sort of a response.
00:07:54.000 Yeah.
00:07:55.000 I mean, I totally made...
00:07:56.000 I was hand-waving.
00:07:58.000 I haven't read anything, you know...
00:08:00.000 I was hand-waving.
00:08:02.000 I'm like, well, actually, maybe...
00:08:05.000 It makes sense that in a small dose, I mean obviously you don't want something that's like very toxic and going to kill your brain cells or anything like that, but things in small doses, and I was assuming that maybe mycotoxins could possibly have a little slight hormetic effect.
00:08:21.000 Like I said, that was just me theorizing.
00:08:26.000 Isn't it fascinating, though, that that is sort of the way, especially when it comes to exercise, that you need to experience this intense hardship in order to get this wonderful feeling of accomplishment, this endorphin rush.
00:08:40.000 I feel so good after I work out.
00:08:42.000 I make all my best decisions after I have a really good workout.
00:08:46.000 It's just like my body has a better perspective.
00:08:49.000 If I haven't worked out in a couple of days and I'm stressed and then I have to make a decision, oftentimes I don't trust my judgment.
00:08:55.000 Oh yeah, I'm the same way.
00:08:56.000 I'm absolutely addicted to the feeling and the physiological changes that occur with exercise.
00:09:02.000 And there are a lot of them that are occurring in the brain and elsewhere.
00:09:06.000 But it's the same.
00:09:09.000 What's really kind of fascinating recently, you know about inducing neurogenesis when you work out.
00:09:14.000 That's kind of well known where exercise induces the growth of new brain cells.
00:09:18.000 BDNF is one way, IGF-1.
00:09:20.000 These things can, you know, you grow new brain cells, and so growing new brain cells has always been associated with learning and memory.
00:09:27.000 It's like, oh, you grow new brain cells, and they've shown that that neurogenesis, in adults at least, is associated with new learning and new memory.
00:09:34.000 But what they found recently, and I found this really interesting because it kind of changed the way I think of it, Is that when you grow those new brain cells, like when you're exercising, heat stress does the same thing, actually, so getting in the sauna.
00:09:47.000 When you're exercising, you're heat stress in your body.
00:09:49.000 I mean, your core body temperature is elevated.
00:09:51.000 It's, you know, very similar.
00:09:53.000 So what happens is you grow new brain cells, and these new brain cells have to make new connections with other neurons.
00:10:00.000 And so what ends up happening is that other connections that you made with...
00:10:04.000 So the connections you make between neurons, these synapses that you form...
00:10:07.000 It's things that you can remember, right?
00:10:09.000 I mean, you form these synapses, and that's like a piece of information remembered, or in some cases, it's an experience that you had that you remember.
00:10:17.000 Well, you actually change those synapses, and some of them go away, so you kind of forget.
00:10:23.000 To make room for a new neuron to make a new.
00:10:46.000 So, you have that balance.
00:10:48.000 Again, it's just, you know, it seems like a very important biological mechanism, this mean and yang, where it's like there's stress and then there's the response to the stress, which is good, and, you know, there's things like...
00:11:00.000 You know, forgetting things, but so that you can learn new things.
00:11:02.000 I mean, it's kind of important.
00:11:04.000 Can you imagine if you remembered everything you've ever...
00:11:06.000 You'd go insane.
00:11:08.000 Yeah, I have a real problem with that.
00:11:10.000 I have a real problem with having too much information in my head and then forgetting things that other people remember.
00:11:16.000 And they'll remember it like it was this big important thing.
00:11:18.000 And I'm like, what?
00:11:19.000 Did we really do that?
00:11:20.000 I don't remember that.
00:11:22.000 And it's just because I've had too many experiences.
00:11:24.000 Like, there's too much stuff.
00:11:25.000 Or if you go back to talk to someone you went to high school with...
00:11:28.000 People that don't leave, that are stuck in that town, and they can remember, remember when we were 17 and we did that crazy thing?
00:11:35.000 You're like, no, I don't fucking remember that.
00:11:37.000 Like, how do you remember that?
00:11:38.000 Like, you gotta get out of this town, man.
00:11:40.000 You gotta make some new connections in your brain, son.
00:11:43.000 Yeah, no, you're referring to what's called episodic memory, which is the type of memory that's associated with experiences.
00:11:50.000 And there's a lot of different things that can regulate that.
00:11:54.000 One would be a very strong emotional response, like your amygdala is activated.
00:12:00.000 So you'll probably remember things that are fear-inducing or something that's really exciting, like really, really exciting to you.
00:12:07.000 Those sorts of things can solidify those types of connections.
00:12:12.000 Yeah.
00:12:12.000 Also, serotonin plays a role in that, by the way.
00:12:15.000 Does it really?
00:12:16.000 Yeah.
00:12:17.000 I've been doing this other paper that I've been working on.
00:12:21.000 I've been looking at the role of serotonin in brain function and dysfunction and also behavior.
00:12:26.000 But it seems like serotonin plays a role in executive function and specifically in episodic memory.
00:12:32.000 So...
00:12:32.000 So any episodic memory that has a big rush of serotonin, what would cause that specifically?
00:12:41.000 What would make a serotonin rush in a memory?
00:12:44.000 Yeah, I think, I mean, there's a lot of different things.
00:12:47.000 Serotonin release happens to a variety of different factors, but one could actually be very potent, something that's very potent that you're experiencing.
00:12:59.000 Do you know?
00:12:59.000 Does that make sense?
00:13:00.000 Where it's like, it's not just your everyday stuff that you kind of block out, like it's just routine, but it's something just novel and...
00:13:08.000 Would that be like the day you find out that Kennedy got shot or the day 9-11 happened or the day like extreme events?
00:13:16.000 What response would that be?
00:13:18.000 I think that would be the amygdala response.
00:13:20.000 Yeah, where your amygdala gets activated.
00:13:23.000 But I think for the serotonin, it's more of they've done a lot of studies where they've looked at kind of like depleting it and what happens.
00:13:32.000 What happens when you don't have, when you can't make it?
00:13:35.000 You just, your episodic memory is bad.
00:13:38.000 Well, that's the thing with people who do MDMA, with people who party too much and do ecstasy, is the crush afterwards is their serotonin being depleted, right?
00:13:47.000 That's a big part of it.
00:13:48.000 What's the mechanism of action of MDMA? I always forget.
00:13:53.000 We could pull it up.
00:13:54.000 Well, MDMA supposedly has some function with rushing serotonin into your system, and it gives you this Gigantic.
00:14:05.000 Let's see if it gives you a...
00:14:07.000 Induce euphoria, sense of intimacy with others, diminished anxiety, mild psychedelia.
00:14:14.000 Psychedelia is a weird word.
00:14:15.000 Doesn't seem like it should be real, but it is.
00:14:18.000 Many studies, particularly in the fields of psychology and cognitive therapy, suggest...
00:14:21.000 They use it a lot lately.
00:14:22.000 It's been used a lot for PTSD. Which is interesting because I've only taken it once.
00:14:29.000 I took it once a long time ago.
00:14:30.000 I never took it again.
00:14:31.000 I never had a desire to take it again.
00:14:33.000 Although I had a very positive experience with it because the downside the next day was just brutal.
00:14:40.000 I couldn't read.
00:14:41.000 I remember I was in a coffee shop and I was trying to read a magazine and I couldn't focus enough to read a paragraph.
00:14:48.000 You couldn't focus.
00:14:49.000 There was nothing going on.
00:14:50.000 My brain felt like a dry sponge.
00:14:55.000 So some things that happen when you release a lot of serotonin into your synapses is that your body, because it's too much, there's more than it's supposed to have, you'll start to downregulate other receptors and there's like a negative feedback.
00:15:11.000 So what would happen then is the next day...
00:15:14.000 You're not going to be as responsive to that serotonin.
00:15:17.000 And that's something that's a big problem with some SSRI drugs and things like that, where, you know, you're basically preventing the serotonin from being re-metabolized, taken back up, and so it sits around in these synapse for a lot longer than it's supposed to, and they've shown that the consequence to that is you actually down-regulate serotonin receptors,
00:15:36.000 which is what, you know, serotonin receptor responds to the serotonin that you're releasing, so if you can't respond to it, then, you know, what's the point?
00:15:44.000 There's a lot of these feedback mechanisms that occur, and I don't even know all of them.
00:15:49.000 It's very complex.
00:15:50.000 Yeah, it's listed in wiki under the long-term effects that it causes a down-regulation of serotonin reuptake transporters in the brain.
00:15:58.000 The rate at which the brain recovers from serotonergic changes is unclear.
00:16:05.000 One study demonstrated lasting serotonergic changes.
00:16:09.000 Tenergic.
00:16:10.000 Tenergic.
00:16:11.000 In some animals exposed to MDMA, other studies have suggested the brain may recover from the damage.
00:16:16.000 But a lot of people that do it, they take 5-HTP to try to juice up their serotonin.
00:16:22.000 They take it while they're doing MDMA and then they take it afterwards.
00:16:26.000 You have to be really careful when you're combining multiple drugs that are affecting serotonin, for example, or that pathway, because then you can end up getting something called, I think they call it serotonin syndrome, where it's like people that are taking SSRIs have to be really careful and not take a bunch of tryptophan,
00:16:42.000 because then you can induce a toxicity that's pretty dangerous.
00:16:47.000 And I forget what all the actual effects of serotonin syndrome are, but they're not good.
00:16:55.000 Yeah, not good at all.
00:16:56.000 That's an issue with people also that are taking 5-HTP. If they're on a serotonin SSRI and they take 5-HTP, you can get this serotonin syndrome.
00:17:07.000 You know, the other thing about serotonin, I mean, we always think about it as being a brain, you know, neurochemical, right?
00:17:15.000 A neurotransmitter in the brain.
00:17:16.000 But actually, the majority of the serotonin in your body is not in your brain.
00:17:21.000 It's made in your gut.
00:17:22.000 Really?
00:17:23.000 Yeah.
00:17:23.000 So I actually just published a paper.
00:17:26.000 It was published the last time I was on this podcast, actually, in my paper.
00:17:29.000 I didn't know it came out in press the day that I was on this podcast.
00:17:35.000 So there's two different genes that convert tryptophan into 5-HTPs.
00:17:43.000 That's the rate limiting step where you convert tryptophan into 5-hydroxy tryptophan.
00:17:48.000 And that's called tryptophan hydroxylase.
00:17:50.000 And there's one enzyme called tryptophan hydroxylase-1 that's localized or located outside of the blood-brain barrier.
00:17:59.000 And it's predominantly found in the gut, but it's also found in the pineal gland, which is actually separated by the blood-brain barrier.
00:18:06.000 It's close to the brain, but it's actually separated.
00:18:09.000 And it's also found in Some of your T cells and placenta tissue.
00:18:13.000 And then there's tryptophanhydroxylase 2, which is the brain form.
00:18:18.000 And that's found in the dorsal raphe part, the mid part of your brain.
00:18:22.000 And there's also some expression.
00:18:25.000 So your gut has neurons in it as well, enteric neurons.
00:18:28.000 That enzyme, that's the neuron one, there's some of that also in your gut, but mostly it's the other enzyme.
00:18:35.000 So there's tryptophanhydroxylase 1, tryptophanhydroxylase 2. They both make serotonin.
00:18:38.000 So serotonin made in your gut Actually causes GI inflammation and they've shown this in like mouse models because what happens is serotonin made in the gut activates T cells and the T cells have a receptor to it on their cell surface and when they respond to serotonin they proliferate and grow more.
00:18:59.000 And so if you're making – if you have a bunch of serotonin in your gut, you can get GI inflammation.
00:19:04.000 And, you know, this is – I think this has also been documented with people that take too much 5-HTP as well as people with colitis and such.
00:19:13.000 They've done mouse models where they knock out that enzyme, tryptophan hydroxylase 1, that makes serotonin in the gut.
00:19:18.000 And it completely ameliorates that – the inflammatory, like – Thank you.
00:19:51.000 Yeah, thanks.
00:19:52.000 So what I found was that these two enzymes for tryptopin hydroxylase both have what's called a vitamin D response element in it, which is a telltale sequence that vitamin D, when vitamin D binds to a vitamin D receptor, it recognizes that and it can turn on a gene or it turns off a gene.
00:20:07.000 And when it turns on, the gene does what it's supposed to.
00:20:11.000 What I found is that the sequence itself of this vitamin D element can determine whether or not it's going to turn it on or off.
00:20:20.000 And I found these two different enzymes of tryptophan hydroxylase had We're good to go.
00:20:45.000 Not completely, but turns it down so that you're not making as much serotonin.
00:20:49.000 You don't have as much GI inflammation.
00:20:50.000 And then I related this to autism because I know I'm getting way out there, but it's pretty cool.
00:20:56.000 So autism has been on the rise.
00:20:59.000 Like right now, the most recent CDC report that came out said that one in 68 children have autism.
00:21:05.000 I mean, it's been, it's risen like 600% since the 1970s.
00:21:09.000 Like it's astronomical, like how much it's risen.
00:21:13.000 So, they haven't identified a genetic cause.
00:21:17.000 Over 70% of autism cases have not been linked to a genetic mutation.
00:21:22.000 Which means, to me, something in the environment seems to be going on.
00:21:27.000 Something that is, you know, interacting with possible genetic mechanisms that's causing, you know, this autism rise.
00:21:34.000 And, you know, vitamin D is one thing that's been, people getting adequate vitamin D has been on the decrease the same time that autism rises, autism's been rising.
00:21:43.000 And so I came up with this theory that Low vitamin D during pregnancy and also during neonate when you're a young child can lead to serotonin deficiency in the brain.
00:21:56.000 And what happens is during the brain, during fetal brain development, serotonin is critical to guide neurons to where they're supposed to go, to make them proliferate.
00:22:09.000 It's an important differentiation factor to help them make the kind of neurons they're supposed to make.
00:22:14.000 It plays a very, very important role in regulating brain structure and morphology.
00:22:19.000 What vitamin D in particular?
00:22:21.000 Because vitamin D3 was the one that you were harping on last time.
00:22:25.000 Right, vitamin D3. So vitamin D3, the way it works is you can make vitamin D in your skin.
00:22:31.000 So you can convert it into D3. Yeah, so UVB radiation.
00:22:35.000 You need UVB light.
00:22:38.000 And it converts something in your skin called 7-dehydrocholesterol into vitamin D3. And then this gets released into the bloodstream, goes to your liver, where then it's converted to 25-hydroxyvitamin D, which is a major circulating form of vitamin D. And that's what you get measured when you get your vitamin D levels measured.
00:22:57.000 And then it goes into your kidneys and gets activated to an active steroid hormone.
00:23:01.000 And it's called 125-hydroxyvitamin D. So vitamin D gets converted into an active steroid hormone.
00:23:06.000 And once it's converted into that active steroid hormone in your kidneys, what then it does is it binds to a vitamin D receptor in different tissues in your body, including your brain.
00:23:16.000 And it does this thing where it turns on or turns off over a thousand different genes in your body.
00:23:23.000 So it's regulating a lot of, you know, different processes.
00:23:27.000 One of them is the serotonin.
00:23:29.000 So I basically came up with this theory that, you know, women were not getting enough vitamin D and the child's brain was then becoming serotonin deficiency.
00:23:39.000 It was changing the structure of the way the brain was developing.
00:23:41.000 And They've seen now that autism actually seems to be occurring in utero.
00:23:46.000 And they're finding now, they've been doing these studies where they're finding now there seems to be a good, strong environmental component.
00:23:51.000 And they haven't figured out what it is.
00:23:53.000 So I'm hoping that people will start...
00:23:55.000 I'm not an autism researcher and I'm not a neuroscientist.
00:23:58.000 I mean, I know a little bit about it.
00:24:00.000 But what I did was I kind of just took a step back and started putting all these things together and came up with this hypothesis.
00:24:06.000 And I also found things like estrogen can activate that same gene in tryptophan hydroxylase.
00:24:11.000 So estrogen...
00:24:12.000 Can protect you if you have low vitamin D, you can still make that serotonin from tryptophan because estrogen activates that same gene also.
00:24:21.000 And then the whole gut inflammation thing, autistics have this and I think that they're They have high gut inflammation because they have too much serotonin going on in the gut.
00:24:31.000 That's a common thing with...
00:24:32.000 It's common with autistics.
00:24:33.000 Wow, that's interesting.
00:24:34.000 That's fascinating.
00:24:35.000 So it's pretty interesting.
00:24:37.000 I totally forgot why I got on this.
00:24:39.000 I totally...
00:24:40.000 Well, we were talking about serotonin, 5-HTP, 5-HTP cells in the gut.
00:24:44.000 Right.
00:24:44.000 So that's another thing where it's like 5-HTP... The first thing it does is it hits the gut.
00:24:50.000 And you've got that enzyme in there that can...
00:24:52.000 Well...
00:24:53.000 In the gut, so 5-HTP actually bypasses the tryptophan hydroxylase part.
00:24:58.000 It's now the next step, which is to be decarboxylated into serotonin.
00:25:03.000 So you can actually convert it.
00:25:04.000 If you take too much of it, you'll convert it into serotonin in your gut before it gets to your brain.
00:25:10.000 So it's something to keep in mind.
00:25:12.000 Serotonin does not cross the blood-brain barrier.
00:25:15.000 5-HTP does.
00:25:18.000 So if you're converting the serotonin immediately in your gut, Then it's not going to get to your brain.
00:25:25.000 So there's complex mechanisms.
00:25:27.000 Does tryptophan cross the blood-brain barrier?
00:25:29.000 Tryptophan does get transported into the brain, yeah.
00:25:32.000 And we talked about this a little bit last time where it competes with brain's chain amino acids to get transported into the brain.
00:25:38.000 So what happens is leucine, isoleucine, these things actually win.
00:25:45.000 They're going through the same transporter.
00:25:48.000 Tryptophan is a very rare amino acid in proteins.
00:25:51.000 It's much less abundant than branched-chain amino acids like leucine and isoleucine.
00:25:55.000 Is it a myth, the tryptophan-turkey thing, that correlation between eating turkey and getting tired after you...
00:26:02.000 I don't think that getting tired after eating it is a myth.
00:26:05.000 I think it's a myth that it's due to tryptophan because actually...
00:26:11.000 So the pineal gland converts serotonin into melatonin, okay?
00:26:17.000 And the pineal gland, it's separated by the blood-brain barrier.
00:26:23.000 So that competition for the branching amino acids getting into the pineal gland, we're talking about something different.
00:26:35.000 You probably are getting a little bit of tryptophan being converted into serotonin and then melatonin when you're eating turkey.
00:26:41.000 Turkey has a lot of branched-chain amino acids as well.
00:26:45.000 It's most likely you're just a fat fuck.
00:26:47.000 It's most likely, yeah, exactly.
00:26:49.000 But you said it, not me.
00:26:51.000 Stuffing and all the other stuff that goes along with it.
00:26:54.000 The T-cells, I want to get back to that real quick because you were talking about the elevated T-cell count.
00:27:00.000 Now, is that something that would help people that have HIV? Would a high dose of 5-HTP help people who have HIV that have low T-cell counts?
00:27:12.000 Does that make sense?
00:27:13.000 Is it the same thing?
00:27:14.000 That's interesting.
00:27:14.000 I've never thought about that.
00:27:17.000 I mean...
00:27:18.000 That's an issue, right, with AIDS patients?
00:27:21.000 Yeah.
00:27:21.000 I mean, well, there's a lot of issues.
00:27:23.000 But yeah, they definitely do have low T-cell...
00:27:27.000 I don't know.
00:27:27.000 That's a really good question, Joe.
00:27:28.000 Actually, I'm pretty impressed.
00:27:30.000 That's interesting.
00:27:31.000 It's possible.
00:27:32.000 But it seems like 5-HTP, you know, being converted to serotonin, does serotonin have an effect on T cell counts?
00:27:40.000 Yeah.
00:27:41.000 Only gut level serotonin.
00:27:43.000 No, it has an effect on peripheral blood T-cell counts.
00:27:46.000 Yeah, that's why it's actually a pretty fascinating question I don't know the answer to, but certainly something that I think I'll probably look into after this.
00:27:54.000 Yeah, that seems like we have a supplement that we sell that is, hold on, I'll grab it.
00:27:59.000 It's in this box right here.
00:28:00.000 That's 5-HTP, L-tryptophan, and a couple other things.
00:28:04.000 It's called New Mood.
00:28:05.000 Yeah.
00:28:06.000 Oh, you got one right here?
00:28:07.000 Yeah.
00:28:10.000 That's a F5-HTP supplement that was originally created.
00:28:13.000 It was originally when we first came up with it.
00:28:17.000 Allegedly, my friend and partner allegedly likes to do ecstasy.
00:28:22.000 Allegedly.
00:28:23.000 And he came up with this.
00:28:24.000 They called it roll off.
00:28:26.000 And the idea would be when you came off of, you know, when people do MDMA, they call it rolling.
00:28:33.000 And when you're off the MDMA, you know, you're like, oh, well, that was the nutritional boost that you needed to get your brain to produce more 5-HTP or to produce more serotonin, rather.
00:28:44.000 Actually, what's really interesting as I look at this is that you have vitamin D3 in it.
00:28:49.000 Yes.
00:28:49.000 Which really surprises me because whoever made this connection for putting the vitamin D in with the L-tryptophan, I'm pretty impressed because that...
00:28:58.000 Until my paper was published in February, no one had known that vitamin D can regulate.
00:29:05.000 I don't know.
00:29:06.000 Whoever made that connection, that's interesting that you were able to figure out to put vitamin D with L-tryptophan because I haven't seen any supplement on the market that's done that.
00:29:16.000 I don't know if whoever did this knew, but because tryptophan, you need vitamin D to convert tryptophan into serotonin.
00:29:25.000 So that's actually pretty good.
00:29:27.000 Well, my partner, Aubrey, who's also my good friend, he's very diligent when it comes to the research involved in any of these supplements.
00:29:35.000 He's also been a freak about vitamins and nutrients his entire life.
00:29:39.000 His mother's a maniac when it comes to that stuff.
00:29:41.000 He learned a lot of it from her and then extensive research.
00:29:45.000 We made sure that when we were putting something like that out, we wanted to make sure that we had all the bases covered.
00:29:50.000 That's kind of cool that the vitamin D's in there.
00:29:52.000 I wouldn't have expected that.
00:29:54.000 The pineal gland is a fascinating gland.
00:29:57.000 The fact that that is what creates so many different elements that regulate mood.
00:30:05.000 I don't know if you're familiar with this.
00:30:08.000 There's always been this thing about dimethyltryptamine, which is the psychedelic drug that's produced by the brain.
00:30:13.000 It's also produced by the liver and the lungs.
00:30:15.000 They've found recently, like within the last year, evidence that it's produced by the pineal gland.
00:30:21.000 It's always been like this big sort of, there was anecdotal evidence, but there was never real hard evidence until they actually showed that in live mice, the pineal gland is producing dimethyltryptamine.
00:30:37.000 And that's the third eye.
00:30:38.000 I mean, the pineal gland, you know, in reptiles.
00:30:41.000 So it's producing it when you sleep?
00:30:43.000 Well, it's producing it during different periods of stress, during REM sleep.
00:30:49.000 But, you know, it's hard to get a brain...
00:30:52.000 It's hard to get a mouse to sleep while you got a fucking big saw mark on its brain or an opening in its brain and you're testing its pineal gland.
00:31:00.000 So the amount of evidence they have about humans, about when and where is kind of limited.
00:31:07.000 But now they're making these correlating.
00:31:10.000 They're making a correlation based on the mammal, based on the mice.
00:31:15.000 We're trying to do more studies on human beings, more accurate studies, and trying to come up with more accurate ways of testing, especially during different stages.
00:31:25.000 Because the hypothesis is, the theory is that during heavy REM sleep and during periods of extreme stress when your body believes that it's going to die.
00:31:36.000 Like if you're under extreme physical trauma, like people that have had extreme physical trauma, you know, and they have that go to the light moment.
00:31:43.000 The idea is that that's a dimethyltryptamine rush and that the reason why they have these intense afterlife experiences and I came back and it was amazing.
00:31:53.000 I got to see my mother and I went to this place and God was there.
00:31:58.000 You can get there if you take psychedelic drugs.
00:32:00.000 I mean, you can get there right now.
00:32:02.000 A healthy person can have almost the exact same type of experience.
00:32:06.000 With psychedelic drugs.
00:32:08.000 And it's just a crazy psychedelic drug because your own brain makes it.
00:32:11.000 So the dimethyltryptamine that you produce in the pineal gland crosses over the blood-brain barrier and starts affecting things in your brain?
00:32:19.000 Is it binding to different receptors and stuff in your brain?
00:32:22.000 That would be a question for someone far smarter than me.
00:32:25.000 Okay.
00:32:28.000 Ayahuasca, I'm sure you've heard of that, right?
00:32:30.000 Yeah, I mean, I've heard of dimethyltryptamine as well, and I'm not well-versed in the whole field.
00:32:37.000 Well, it's just a crazy drug because it's the most potent psychedelic drug known to man, and it's the one produced by your own brain.
00:32:43.000 So it's really weird.
00:32:45.000 Is it produced, like, is it from melatonin, or is it completely different?
00:32:50.000 Completely different, but it's very similar to melatonin in its chemical structure.
00:32:54.000 It's related.
00:32:55.000 Like, they're close.
00:32:57.000 It's weird.
00:32:58.000 I mean, because melatonin, you know, regulates the sleep-wake cycle and the circadian rhythm.
00:33:04.000 So, you know, I'm just – I'm wondering if it's very similar in structure to melatonin.
00:33:08.000 Would it have any role in that as well, the circadian rhythm?
00:33:11.000 It could.
00:33:12.000 I think they're all connected.
00:33:13.000 I mean, they tried to – like, okay, this is the – when you look at – Any of the studies that they've done on the human mind and the studies that they've done connecting various hormones and things like whether it's dimethyltryptamine or melatonin or tryptophan,
00:33:36.000 I think it's probably pretty safe to say that we know a lot about that stuff, or they know a lot about that stuff, but they're not entirely certain about all the different effects that these regulating hormones have on the brain.
00:33:50.000 Is that safe to say?
00:33:51.000 Oh yeah, for sure.
00:33:53.000 It's very complex.
00:33:54.000 I think they're probably the most ignorant about dimethyltryptamine because it's been thought of as a recreational drug for a long time.
00:34:04.000 So people aren't studying as much, probably.
00:34:06.000 Well, the only guy that I know that's had grants to study it and has been allowed to study it by the Food and Drug Administration or who regulates...
00:34:15.000 I guess it would be the FDA that would regulate that.
00:34:18.000 Yeah.
00:34:19.000 Now, in terms of the recreational drugs, I don't know.
00:34:24.000 I think it's the FDA because dimethyltryptamine is a really weird one because although it's illegal, it's in so many different things.
00:34:32.000 It's impossible to get the sources illegal because dimethyltryptamine is in like a thousand different plants.
00:34:37.000 It's in grass.
00:34:39.000 Wow.
00:34:39.000 I mean, you could get grass.
00:34:40.000 You could literally get Phalaris grass.
00:34:44.000 You just go mow a lawn, a Phalaris grass lawn, take the bag of that shit, bring it to a lab somewhere, and you've got DMT, and you have a Schedule I drug.
00:34:51.000 It's just bananas.
00:34:52.000 My cat, well, she passed away recently.
00:34:55.000 She liked to go outside and chew her some grass.
00:35:00.000 And she would get real crazy about it, too.
00:35:04.000 You want to see something really crazy?
00:35:06.000 You want to see a jaguar trip out?
00:35:08.000 Pull that video of a jaguar tripping out on DMT. Jaguar's in the Amazon.
00:35:13.000 Find these DMT rich plants and they chew them and eat them and have psychedelic experiences.
00:35:19.000 And they have a different, apparently they have a different way of processing things in their stomachs than we do because they're primarily carnivores.
00:35:28.000 So they don't have the same gut enzymes and things.
00:35:31.000 Like here's the jaguar.
00:35:34.000 I'll put a little place for you then we'll discuss it.
00:35:38.000 But it's so crazy because this jaguar, like, they do it actively.
00:35:43.000 It's like something they do on a regular basis.
00:35:45.000 They've observed them many times.
00:35:47.000 They'll eat these grasses and these plants, rather.
00:35:53.000 And then they just trip their balls up.
00:35:55.000 Just as kept cats eat grass.
00:35:57.000 Large cats like jaguars eat leaves.
00:36:00.000 When regurgitated, they cleanse their digestive system.
00:36:14.000 But, like catnip, some plants induce other effects.
00:36:23.000 This jaguar is, first of all...
00:36:27.000 Yogi is one of the commonest rainforest vines.
00:36:29.000 It seems to cause playful kittenish behavior.
00:36:35.000 But could something deeper be happening?
00:36:41.000 That cat is seeing all kinds of shit right now.
00:36:44.000 They're the king of the jungle.
00:36:46.000 I mean, the jaguar is in the real jungle.
00:36:50.000 Yeah, the brain's fascinating.
00:36:52.000 I mean, biology itself is pretty complicated.
00:36:56.000 Yeah, look at this jaguar.
00:36:57.000 His eyes are dilated.
00:36:59.000 It's the same exact plant that people use in ayahuasca rituals.
00:37:03.000 So this jaguar is eating it, and he's lying on his back.
00:37:06.000 The jaguar also takes Yarji to heighten its senses when it hunts.
00:37:14.000 It's pretty fascinating stuff.
00:37:16.000 Like so much of weird nature, there is still so much to know.
00:37:21.000 The human gut produces monoamine oxidase, which makes dimethyltryptamine.
00:37:26.000 It kills it in the gut, so that if you consume grass that has DMT in it, you don't have a psychedelic trip.
00:37:33.000 But I don't know if a cat has the same gut enzymes.
00:37:37.000 Yeah, I'm not sure.
00:37:38.000 Your gut has a lot.
00:37:40.000 I mean, it's making neurotransmitters.
00:37:43.000 There's neurons down there doing stuff, and there's a connection between the brain and the gut as well.
00:37:48.000 The whole thing about the human mind is so fascinating where someone like you who is just sort of putting together all these different things that you found in different books and you go, well, hey, look at this combination of things that's going on and the vitamin D and vitamin D depletion and then here we have this issue with autism and autism has to do with inflammation and the gut.
00:38:10.000 I put together a lot of stuff and I explained the male dominance and all this and really my goal was Look, maybe I'm wrong on some of these things, but I'm definitely right about some of these things.
00:38:23.000 Here, I'm interjecting it into the scientific world for all you people that actually do research on autism and do research on serotonin and all this, because I don't.
00:38:35.000 That's not what I do.
00:38:37.000 And I think that that's – it's good to have theoretical papers like that sometimes where it's like you get someone who can make all these connections where there's tons of stuff buried in the literature.
00:38:46.000 And I had a mechanism.
00:38:47.000 I had a specific mechanism that explained it.
00:38:50.000 And you kind of just say, here, now, if you think this is interesting, follow up on it.
00:38:56.000 That does do research on one of these, you know, looks at serotonin and does vitamin D research.
00:39:02.000 And they were just jumping out of their chairs.
00:39:04.000 They were so excited.
00:39:04.000 And so now they're doing experiments.
00:39:07.000 And I have already found positive data, which is really nice and reinforcing.
00:39:11.000 So that was my goal, is to kind of just make these connections, big picture, find a mechanism.
00:39:18.000 Finding a mechanism by which vitamin D regulated serotonin was amazing, and putting it out in literature.
00:39:24.000 But the whole vitamin D thing, vitamin D3, is important, and I think it's something that Most people are.
00:39:33.000 70% of the population is not getting an adequate...
00:39:36.000 70%?
00:39:37.000 70, yeah.
00:39:38.000 Actually, we have...
00:39:40.000 Someone reached out to me on Twitter after the last podcast, an artist, and he was like, look, I really like what you're doing.
00:39:48.000 I've been wanting to make a cool infographic.
00:39:50.000 Just basically summarizing everything I ever talk about with vitamin D. It's like all in one graphic.
00:39:56.000 And he did it for me.
00:39:57.000 And if you want to pull it up, it's on foundmyfitness.com forward slash vitamin D, no, vitamin hyphen D. And it's a freaking awesome infographic.
00:40:08.000 What's this guy's name?
00:40:09.000 Oh, his name's Jason Wright.
00:40:11.000 Jason Wright?
00:40:12.000 Yeah.
00:40:12.000 Right on, Jason Wright.
00:40:13.000 Yeah.
00:40:14.000 So he made this infographic where it's like, basically, I talk about how vitamin D regulates a thousand different genes in the body.
00:40:21.000 Yeah, here it is.
00:40:23.000 So it starts off here.
00:40:25.000 It's got this guy with all these like chromosomes in him with telomeres because vitamin D is important for telomere length.
00:40:30.000 Oh, I want to talk about that too.
00:40:31.000 Oh, totally.
00:40:32.000 And then if you scroll down, it's like, look, he's showing, oh, 70% of the U.S. population does not have adequate levels.
00:40:39.000 I thought that was really cool.
00:40:39.000 I like how he made the graph too.
00:40:41.000 We see 10 people.
00:40:42.000 Yeah, exactly.
00:40:43.000 Three of them have it and seven of them don't.
00:40:44.000 Right.
00:40:45.000 And then it goes on.
00:40:46.000 And this is like your...
00:40:48.000 I think?
00:41:13.000 And then as you keep going, it shows you, oh, all the factors that regulate your vitamin D, like how sunscreen blocks UVB, so you can't make it with sunscreen.
00:41:22.000 Melanin, which is an adaptation to prevent UVB rays from burning you, actually also blocks your ability to make vitamin D. And body fat regulates it.
00:41:32.000 Body fat regulates the bioavailability of it, so it has to be released into the bloodstream to get converted into active hormone.
00:41:39.000 Age.
00:41:40.000 Age regulates it.
00:41:41.000 A 70-year-old makes four times less vitamin D from their skin than their former 20-year-old self.
00:41:48.000 All these things.
00:41:48.000 Living in the northern latitude is another thing.
00:41:50.000 People that live in, like, I think it says above 37 degrees north.
00:41:56.000 With the exception of the summer, they cannot make any vitamin D from the sun.
00:42:00.000 Wow.
00:42:01.000 So the solution is vitamin D supplement.
00:42:05.000 This is just a really awesome way to put all this great information, show it with graphics, people like that, and it's easier for people to understand.
00:42:14.000 And I go into what your level should be and all that, but I was really stoked because I've been wanting to do this for a really long time, and I have no artistic capabilities.
00:42:25.000 No, that's so cool.
00:42:26.000 Someone just reaching out to me and wanting to help was really cool.
00:42:31.000 Where is it on your website if you're looking for it?
00:42:34.000 I think if you sign up for my newsletter.
00:42:38.000 That's how you get it?
00:42:38.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:42:39.000 I think that's how you get it.
00:42:40.000 Your website's getting crushed right now.
00:42:43.000 It's really hard to even get to.
00:42:45.000 Is it?
00:42:46.000 It took me five chances to get to it.
00:42:48.000 Wow.
00:42:48.000 Yeah, it's not...
00:42:49.000 So, yeah, that's the cool, the vitamin D. That's very cool.
00:42:54.000 Yeah, totally.
00:42:55.000 The telomere length thing.
00:42:56.000 The reason why I wanted to get to that is because I had emailed you about this supplement that I had read about called TA65. And I had read about it because my friend Bobby...
00:43:07.000 He emailed me about it and his dad was taking it.
00:43:10.000 That's bad Bobby for folks on the message board.
00:43:13.000 B-A-A-D-B-O-B-B-Y. His dad was taking it and his dad started experiencing vision improvement.
00:43:22.000 And I was like, that's fucking crazy.
00:43:24.000 It's like, what is this TA65 stuff?
00:43:27.000 So I go on to Google and I Google TA65 and there's all these crazy claims and a lot of people are selling it and, you know, there's a lawsuit against it because there was a guy who was working for the company, a former executive,
00:43:42.000 who is suing them because he says that it might have caused him to get cancer and I mean, the idea is what they're saying, this is the company that sells it.
00:43:56.000 The correlation between cellular aging and telomere length is rooted in solid research.
00:44:01.000 Telomeres become shorter every time a cell divides, and when they are lost, cells can no longer reproduce.
00:44:07.000 The enzyme telomeres, telomerase, how do you say it?
00:44:10.000 Telomerase.
00:44:10.000 Telomerase.
00:44:11.000 Telomerase can lengthen telomeres, possibly slowing or reversing degenerative diseases.
00:44:17.000 In one study, mice genetically engineered to lack functional telomerase results.
00:44:21.000 Telomerase?
00:44:22.000 Telomerase.
00:44:22.000 Telomerase.
00:44:24.000 Telac functional telomerase showed brain degeneration and shrunken testes, but those effects were reversed when the enzyme was reactivated.
00:44:34.000 Such findings have sparked a lot of hype and encouraged a cottage industry of companies that assess a person's biological age on the basis of their telomere length.
00:44:44.000 But TA Sciences has taken the buzz further, and they sell a pill called TA65, which it says can shorten, can lengthen, excuse me, short telomeres.
00:44:55.000 Yes.
00:44:56.000 All right.
00:44:56.000 No.
00:44:56.000 Telomeres, yes.
00:44:57.000 But let me explain.
00:44:59.000 Please do.
00:45:00.000 This is, I mean, so complicated, but I think I can shed some light.
00:45:04.000 I think I can.
00:45:05.000 So, this is all right.
00:45:07.000 You know, telomeres...
00:45:08.000 Every cell in your body has 46 chromosomes, with the exception of your gametes, which have 23. But these chromosomes have your DNA. They're wound up with these histone proteins, and that's where your DNA is.
00:45:21.000 And at the end of these chromosomes are your telomeres.
00:45:23.000 The problem is that these telomeres have a funny structure where their DNA, it's a repeat of TTAGGG and there's like this structural defect in the DNA of the telomere where there's a big overhang and like one of your strands of DNA is longer than the other one.
00:45:41.000 And so when the cell divides and it's got to copy its entire genome with all those 46 chromosomes to make a new cell with all that same DNA, there's a little gap there at the end because it's like, oh my god, I don't have anything here.
00:45:55.000 How do I make the new DNA? And so what happens is the next cell then has a little bit shorter telomere because there was that little gap that didn't get filled.
00:46:02.000 And this is happening successfully over multiple generations year after year after year after year.
00:46:08.000 Each time it gets a little shorter, each time it gets a little shorter.
00:46:10.000 And that becomes a problem because these telomeres are actually protecting your DNA from damage, you know, oxidative damage from unwinding and also from your chromosomes when your cell divides.
00:46:23.000 They protect your chromosomes from fusing together and getting all these funny abnormal translocations, which lead to cancer and other problems.
00:46:32.000 So you don't want that to happen.
00:46:34.000 And the problem is that most of our cells, with the exception of our stem cells and our lymphocytes, don't express this enzyme called telomerase, which is able to actually rebuild the telomeres.
00:46:48.000 It's actually able to rebuild the end where That telomere little gap where we can't make it.
00:46:55.000 So it's really cool.
00:46:56.000 It's like, well, here's this great enzyme that can rebuild it, but why is it only in our stem cells and why isn't it in all of our cells?
00:47:03.000 The gene is there, but it's just not activated.
00:47:05.000 It's silenced.
00:47:07.000 And the answer for that is, well, if you express too much telomerase in all these other cells, what happens is you can make a cell immortal.
00:47:18.000 And cancer cells have actually developed – they're so smart.
00:47:21.000 Cancer cells are like the smartest thing ever.
00:47:24.000 They've developed this capability to reactivate that enzyme.
00:47:28.000 I think?
00:47:50.000 And at that point, if they reactivate this telomerase, if this is a damaged cell that already has mutations and stuff, you're like, boom, okay, we're going to keep you going now.
00:48:00.000 So it's kind of paradoxical that the short telomere length is what actually can reactivate the telomerase.
00:48:06.000 To make it become immortal.
00:48:08.000 And make cancer.
00:48:10.000 Well, if you already have mutations.
00:48:12.000 Yeah, if it's already like an abnormal cell because you've already gotten damage and stuff to it.
00:48:15.000 Yes, exactly.
00:48:16.000 You can take a precancerous cell and say, here, keep going.
00:48:20.000 Grow more.
00:48:21.000 So this is...
00:48:23.000 The telomerase is in stem cells because your stem cells aren't dividing that much.
00:48:27.000 They're usually just sitting around waiting until they have to come out and divide and make more of a certain cell type.
00:48:32.000 And then they go back into just waiting around.
00:48:33.000 So they're not constantly...
00:48:35.000 You know, dividing, meaning they're not constantly at risk for more damage.
00:48:41.000 And I can explain that later.
00:48:43.000 Thank you.
00:48:47.000 Thank you.
00:49:06.000 You have to genetically engineer them to not express that telomerase.
00:49:10.000 And what happens is over multiple generations, it takes like three, three or four, when you get to generation four, you know, then you start to see progeria types of effects where now these mice, they're born.
00:49:23.000 If it's the fourth generation of not having this enzyme, it takes like that long to actually get the telomeres to a really short level where it starts to have progeria effects and they start to prematurely age.
00:49:32.000 Their tissues start to You know, break down and they have all these sorts of aging effects.
00:49:38.000 And so what they've shown is they can reactivate telomerase at that point after four generations and it reverses those biological effects.
00:49:45.000 So the tissues become younger, the stem cells, you know, are Would that have a possible benefit to children that have progeria?
00:50:09.000 So, it depends on what type of progeria.
00:50:12.000 There's certain ones, like there's Werner syndrome, which if you just Google Werner syndrome and image it, W-E-R-N-E-R, Werner.
00:50:23.000 That's a disease that involves short telomeres, so basically you can't rebuild your telomeres, and it's excessive telomere shortening.
00:50:34.000 And what happens is, yeah, if you click on the one with the two pictures of the women, by the time they reach puberty, like 15, no, not that one, there was, if you go back, there's, yeah, it's like Filipino woman there, I think.
00:50:49.000 Left hand corner.
00:50:50.000 Yeah, there we go.
00:50:50.000 Left hand corner.
00:50:51.000 Perfect.
00:50:52.000 Yes.
00:50:53.000 So, like, she ages normally up until the age of about 15. And then after 15, she's 40 years old in that right-hand picture.
00:51:01.000 Wow.
00:51:02.000 40. I mean, she looks like she's like...
00:51:03.000 80. Right.
00:51:05.000 Or 90. Yeah, she looks pretty old.
00:51:07.000 So in that case, it'd be interesting to see if having telomerase could help rebuild the telomeres.
00:51:15.000 But like I said, because of the potential danger of...
00:51:20.000 Allowing a precancerous cell to become immortal, I think there's been a lot of...
00:51:24.000 People are careful about that, and that's why it's not on the market right now where you're just...
00:51:28.000 But people are selling it.
00:51:30.000 This is the thing, this TA65 stuff, and this is the lawsuit, is that this guy who worked for them is saying that he got cancer.
00:51:41.000 Yeah.
00:51:41.000 So the thing with reactivating telomerase is if you generally are healthy, you don't have a lot of, you know, your C-reactive protein is low, you don't have a lot of inflammation, a lot of damaged cells, then a lot of pre-cancer cells,
00:51:57.000 your immune system is getting rid of them, you know, reactivating telomerase in a normal cell is not really a bad thing.
00:52:04.000 It's not going to make it a cancer cell.
00:52:06.000 It's going to make it immortal.
00:52:07.000 It's going to help, you know, it not have critically short telomeres.
00:52:11.000 The problem is reactivating it in a cell that has a bunch of damage in it.
00:52:16.000 To me, looking at how much damage is in your cell, we can do that.
00:52:22.000 I do that right now in people.
00:52:24.000 I take their blood cells and I look at DNA damage.
00:52:26.000 Look at mine.
00:52:27.000 Check them out.
00:52:28.000 Yeah, you have to come down to the Bay Area and sign a consent form.
00:52:35.000 That's it?
00:52:35.000 Just like you sign a consent form when you do a podcast?
00:52:39.000 Yeah.
00:52:40.000 Different form?
00:52:40.000 Kind of.
00:52:41.000 Kind of like that.
00:52:42.000 Just to be a part of my trial.
00:52:45.000 So what do you do?
00:52:46.000 So what I do is I take blood.
00:52:50.000 Well, I get an MD to take it for me.
00:52:52.000 And so they draw the blood.
00:52:54.000 And then I take the blood and I centrifuge it.
00:52:57.000 Through this gradient where I can then isolate just the peripheral blood mononuclear cells, which are mostly B and T lymphocytes.
00:53:06.000 That's in some monocytes.
00:53:07.000 So I don't have any red blood cells or platelets or any of those neutrophils.
00:53:11.000 I don't want those or macrophages or things like that.
00:53:13.000 And I take those peripheral blood mononuclear cells and I look at the amount of double-stranded breaks in the DNA. So I can actually measure that.
00:53:24.000 I can quantify that.
00:53:25.000 And not only do I look at those double-stranded breaks in the DNA, so the double-stranded breaks, I think we talked about this a little bit last time, so just normal living.
00:53:38.000 Here's aging for you in a nutshell.
00:53:40.000 Just normal living.
00:53:42.000 Your metabolism, your mitochondria are generating oxygen radicals, which, you know, It gets your DNA and you get enough of these oxygen radicals to cause a strand break.
00:53:53.000 And then you get them in parallel, you have two strand breaks.
00:53:56.000 UV radiation does the same thing, but let's just forget about all the outside stuff.
00:54:01.000 Forget about carcinogens, UV, smoking, all that.
00:54:04.000 Just normal living does this.
00:54:07.000 And this happens every single day.
00:54:10.000 And so your body has to repair that damage.
00:54:13.000 And I talked about those enzymes that are magnesium-dependent and how magnesium is important for DNA repair enzymes.
00:54:19.000 45% of the population doesn't have enough of that.
00:54:21.000 Well, I'm looking at people that are obese and those people usually don't have a really good diet and they're most often magnesium deficient.
00:54:31.000 Well, I don't want to say deficient because it's not like a clinical acute deficiency.
00:54:35.000 They're inadequate.
00:54:36.000 They have inadequate levels of magnesium.
00:54:38.000 They're not taking in enough magnesium, which is 400 or so milligrams a day.
00:54:44.000 So I look at their DNA and their strand breaks.
00:54:46.000 And then I have this, because I think that they're not getting enough magnesium, I'm not actually measuring their magnesium.
00:54:51.000 Someone else that I work with can do that, but I haven't found it necessary to do that yet.
00:54:58.000 Then what I'm doing is I'm measuring the capacity that their body has to repair a known amount of damage that I induce.
00:55:06.000 So I look at their baseline damage, see how much damage is there, and then I induce damage with an irradiator.
00:55:11.000 And then I measure over time the ability of their own enzymes to repair that damage.
00:55:17.000 And what I'm finding is that if I look at someone who's lean or obese based on BMI, then I'm seeing there's differences.
00:55:25.000 I'm seeing that people that are obese, like have a BMI of 30 or so, they have a lot more of this damage in their blood cells.
00:55:33.000 And not only do they have a lot more of this damage, their capacity to repair this damage is impaired.
00:55:40.000 It makes sense to me.
00:55:41.000 You're talking about people that are eating poor diets.
00:55:45.000 They're eating very macronutrient-rich diets.
00:55:48.000 They're eating a lot of processed foods and junk food, and they're not getting their micronutrients.
00:55:54.000 Their essential vitamins, zinc, magnesium, these are required for 300 different enzymes to work in the body.
00:56:02.000 I'm measuring one of those, and that's DNA repair, which is important to prevent cancer.
00:56:08.000 So, anyways, what were we talking about?
00:56:11.000 TA65. That's right.
00:56:12.000 So, I went on this whole...
00:56:14.000 So, that's part of aging in a nutshell, and there's other points of it we can get back to later in the conversation.
00:56:21.000 So, TA65 is...
00:56:24.000 I was actually really impressed because I read a couple of the studies.
00:56:27.000 So, TA65, astragalus root, some Chinese...
00:56:35.000 I think I'm saying it right.
00:56:40.000 The astragalus root.
00:56:42.000 So it has the capacity to activate telomerase.
00:56:48.000 And there's two different papers that were pretty good.
00:56:51.000 One paper was a clinical paper where they gave people varying doses of TA65. And I don't remember the exact doses, but they did a dose response.
00:57:00.000 And they looked at a couple of things.
00:57:01.000 A, they looked at the activation of that enzyme telomerase.
00:57:05.000 And B, they looked at telomere length.
00:57:08.000 So they started the trial baseline, measured telomere length, And telomerase activity.
00:57:25.000 And not only did it increase telomerase activity in the very high doses in a subset of people, it actually increased the length of their telomere over baseline.
00:57:37.000 I've never seen this before.
00:57:40.000 Usually when you're doing a lot of other things that affect telomere length, vitamin D is one of them.
00:57:45.000 The way vitamin D affects telomere length is totally different than the way TA65 does because vitamin D is preventing DNA damage, inflammation, things that accelerate telomere shortening.
00:57:55.000 TA65 is literally rebuilding the end of your telomere.
00:58:00.000 So it's possible to actually start and end up with a longer telomere as opposed to other nutritional factors that regulate just delaying the attrition of it.
00:58:09.000 Does that make sense?
00:58:10.000 So over baseline, they had like a 40%, I believe, from reading that paper a while ago, a 40% increase in telomere length.
00:58:20.000 That's incredible.
00:58:21.000 It's incredible.
00:58:23.000 So then I went and read the other study, which was the mouse study.
00:58:29.000 And actually the woman, the lead investigator, I'm very familiar with her work.
00:58:32.000 I was really close to doing a postdoc in a telomere lab because I've been very interested in telomeres for quite some time.
00:58:39.000 So I had been familiar with her papers, like her publications.
00:58:44.000 And I was like, when I saw that she was, it was from her lab, I was like, oh, it's, I know, I'm familiar with her work, you know, she's pretty good, pretty thorough.
00:58:51.000 And so her paper, what she did, was she took that same mouse model that I was talking about where they, over successive generations, they knock out that telomerase enzyme and they, over, you know, three or four or five generations, they start to get these mice that have really short telomeres that are aging,
00:59:08.000 their tissues are aging quicker, and they gave those mice, like third or fourth generation mice, TA-65.
00:59:15.000 And what they found was that giving those mice the TA65 was able to rejuvenate their tissue.
00:59:22.000 The tissue started to look younger, very similar to telomerase reactivation, not as robust, which isn't surprising.
00:59:29.000 I mean, you're talking about reactivating the entire enzyme versus something that's just able to activate it.
00:59:34.000 But the mice didn't get cancer.
00:59:38.000 They didn't get any types of cancer.
00:59:40.000 But like I said, now if you were to take a mouse model, Knock out their telomerase enzyme, inoculate them with cancer cells, so give them cancer cells.
00:59:52.000 And then given the TA65, they're probably going to do that experiment.
00:59:58.000 I mean, that's the logical thing to do next, just to make sure, to really prove that it's pretty safe.
01:00:06.000 So, bottom line is, I was impressed with TA65, actually surprisingly so.
01:00:13.000 And, you know, personally, I think there's always that risk.
01:00:18.000 It's like, well, if you have a lot of precancerous cells...
01:00:21.000 There's no telling.
01:00:23.000 Obviously, if it was a big issue, more people would be coming down with cancer.
01:00:27.000 I wonder how many people are taking this stuff.
01:00:30.000 I've only heard of a couple of people that I know that are taking it.
01:00:33.000 I've read some folks online on a message board that I go to that say they started taking it, but I don't know enough of them.
01:00:39.000 I don't know how many people are taking it either.
01:00:42.000 That would be my one concern, though, is that having a bunch of precancerous cells, reactivating telomerase in those cells, then pushing them, giving them the fuel they need to then make more cancer cells.
01:00:53.000 That's a possibility.
01:00:54.000 The people that own the company, they're...
01:00:58.000 The whole thing is really odd.
01:01:01.000 I don't know exactly what happened.
01:01:02.000 Because apparently there was some sort of a physical altercation with the guy who was suing them.
01:01:08.000 And they're suing him because they're saying that they lost $2 million in sales because he said that he got cancer.
01:01:17.000 And they're also saying that if he had cancer, he had it before he started taking TA65. How the fuck could you ever know that?
01:01:25.000 Right.
01:01:26.000 Well, but that's the thing.
01:01:27.000 That's the thing.
01:01:28.000 If you have cancer before taking it, I'm not saying this is going to happen.
01:01:33.000 I'm saying theoretically, reactivating telomerase could push those cancer cells to full-blown, precancerous cells to full-blown cancer because now they're immortalizing them.
01:01:44.000 And letting them survive and propagate and proliferate.
01:01:48.000 Here's the question, and here's the big one.
01:01:51.000 Is there a diet, a thing that you can do?
01:01:54.000 The word is always, oh, you need to have, you know, cancer cells can't grow in an alkaline environment.
01:02:02.000 But I've heard that that's horseshit, too.
01:02:04.000 That this idea of alkalizing your blood and having a diet that makes your blood or your body alkaline-rich is horseshit.
01:02:12.000 I'm totally not familiar with any of that.
01:02:15.000 Never heard of that before?
01:02:16.000 I've heard of people wanting to alkaline their blood.
01:02:18.000 I didn't know why.
01:02:19.000 I never really followed up on it.
01:02:21.000 And I certainly haven't heard about the cancer connection to it.
01:02:24.000 So that's new to me.
01:02:25.000 I've definitely heard of other things people are trying to do.
01:02:28.000 Well, you can go alkaline cancer and one of the first things that pops up is myth.
01:02:34.000 The acid alkaline myth.
01:02:38.000 What I've read that's counteracting this is that if you did alter the alkaline of your body, like the variables are so small...
01:02:48.000 That if you alter it in any sort of a shocking way, your body just is fucked.
01:02:55.000 Like, it's not good.
01:02:56.000 Right.
01:02:57.000 No, it's true.
01:02:58.000 I mean, I think with the exception of the gut, where you're trying to actually make a little more...
01:03:03.000 You want these different gut bacteria to be more acidic and make more acidic type of environment to get rid of the bad bacteria, which can't grow in that type of environment.
01:03:15.000 Yeah.
01:03:16.000 But all the other stuff, I think, yeah, there's slight changes in pH and, I mean, you're talking about activating these things.
01:03:23.000 The immune system is sensitive to this sort of stuff.
01:03:25.000 I mean, It's like all of a sudden you start activating your neutrophils and, you know, they don't know why they're activated, but when they're activated, it's just like fire, fire, fire, fire, fire, and they're firing all kinds of crap, cytokines, which are making, you know, reactive nitrogen species, which are damaging your DNA and your lipids and your proteins.
01:03:42.000 So it's like, you know, there's things like that going on.
01:03:46.000 You don't, you know...
01:03:48.000 Yeah, anyways.
01:03:49.000 This critique of it was saying that foods don't influence the blood pH.
01:03:56.000 And they were saying, this is, I'll just read what it says here on this guy's website.
01:04:00.000 Proponents of the alkaline diet have put forth a few different theories about how acidic diet harms our health.
01:04:05.000 The most ridiculous claim, more ridiculous claim, is that we can change the pH of our blood by changing the foods we eat and that the acidic blood causes disease while alkaline blood prevents it.
01:04:16.000 This is not true.
01:04:17.000 The body, this is all referenced to, I'll give the guy's website.
01:04:21.000 It's Chris Kresser, C-H-R-I-S, K-R-E-S-S-E-R dot com.
01:04:30.000 This is not true.
01:04:31.000 The body tightly regulates the pH of our blood and extracellular fluid, and we cannot influence our blood pH by changing our diet with references.
01:04:41.000 High doses of sodium bicarbonate can temporarily increase blood pH, but not without causing uncomfortable GI syndromes.
01:04:48.000 I think?
01:05:19.000 Yeah.
01:05:20.000 So all that, you know, oh, you need to make your body alkaline and cancer can't exist in an alkaline environment.
01:05:26.000 Horseshit, right?
01:05:26.000 Yeah.
01:05:27.000 I just don't know enough about that stuff, honestly, to say definitively if it's...
01:05:33.000 I really don't.
01:05:35.000 I know that things in vitro, when you're looking at cancer, if you're talking about growing cancer cells in a dish and changing that environment is one thing, but I don't know.
01:05:47.000 Yeah, I don't know either.
01:05:49.000 That's the problem.
01:05:50.000 God damn it.
01:05:51.000 Well, I mean, it's something...
01:05:52.000 If you want to email me, I'll look into it.
01:05:55.000 Yeah, I will.
01:05:55.000 Yeah, it's just a matter of me not having dug into something like that.
01:06:00.000 Yeah, but that's like...
01:06:01.000 It's one of those things that just gets repeated over and over again.
01:06:06.000 By the way, this is...
01:06:07.000 Apparently, this myth-busting is...
01:06:10.000 There's a bunch of different websites that say that it's horseshit.
01:06:14.000 And a bunch of different doctors with references about the...
01:06:20.000 This whole alkaline thing.
01:06:22.000 Here's the cancer myth number one, that cancer doesn't feed on sugar.
01:06:26.000 Almost every new patient says, well, ask me about this.
01:06:28.000 A theory is prevalent on the internet that sugar will influence blood sugar levels, feed cancer, and cause it to spread.
01:06:34.000 The truth is you can't really control blood sugar by what you eat.
01:06:38.000 The body's complex system processes what we eat and manages to keep blood sugar levels stable.
01:06:44.000 Is that true?
01:06:45.000 That doesn't make sense.
01:06:46.000 Well, I mean, obviously when you're eating sugar, you're inducing an insulin response, which then you take the sugar up into your cells, so that regulates the blood sugar levels.
01:06:54.000 Unless you're type 2 diabetic or something that's not working, then you can't regulate your blood sugar levels normally, and that's not good.
01:07:02.000 It's saying the exception to this, of course, is people with diabetes who don't have the proper insulin-regulating systems, but if you apply the theory that sugar can affect your insulin levels and feed cancer, diabetics with cancer would all be dying of their cancer.
01:07:16.000 What?
01:07:17.000 What?
01:07:18.000 Yeah, exactly.
01:07:19.000 What kind of fucking quote is that, Dr. Holin?
01:07:23.000 Who are you?
01:07:24.000 You fucking weirdo.
01:07:25.000 That doesn't even make any sense.
01:07:27.000 He's an oncologist, too.
01:07:30.000 Specializes in gastrointestinal and esophageal cancers.
01:07:38.000 Says, at worst, these myths may lead vulnerable cancer patients to try untested treatments or procedures.
01:07:44.000 Hmm.
01:07:45.000 You know, the thing is that cancer cells do acquire this capability to become glycolytic, where they're, instead of using glucose to convert into pyruvate and go into the mitochondria and use this whole mitochondrial metabolism,
01:08:02.000 oxidative phosphorylation, to generate energy, they become They use this whole pathway that's called glycolysis, which is a much shorter pathway, and that's how they're using it to generate their energy.
01:08:16.000 So I think that probably plays a role in people coming up with all these different theories and things that manipulating the glucose and all that, what it can do.
01:08:26.000 I know that I did a lot of work manipulating nutrients and cancer cells in grad school, and This is in vitro, first of all.
01:08:38.000 If I do it in vitro, if I take a cancer cell and I take away their glucose, but they still have all these glutamine, they have these other amino acids, and they were fine.
01:08:50.000 They'd grow slower, but they wouldn't die.
01:08:52.000 If I took away their glutamine, they would die within like 24 hours.
01:08:56.000 And it's, you know, for me to think about cancer cells, well, not only do they need energy, ATP, they need nitrogen source to make new nucleotides for new DNA and also new amino acids.
01:09:07.000 They need, you know, molecules like to build lipids for lipid or, you know, lipid membrane.
01:09:11.000 So there's a lot of, you know, just taking away the glucose is one thing, but there's a lot of other, you know, macromolecules that are really required for cancer proliferation that are also important.
01:09:25.000 So, you know, taking some of the stuff that we're learning in science and immediately applying it, I think in some cases...
01:09:31.000 It can be a little dangerous, you know, just because we don't exactly understand how all these mechanisms are working together.
01:09:38.000 So I'm a little, you know, cautious about taking something that we're learning in science and immediately applying it to yourself, especially if you have cancer.
01:09:48.000 It's so fascinating.
01:09:49.000 I mean, if you think about, like, the last time I was here, I was talking about the folic acid, you know, and how that's a perfect, you know, example where, you know, folic acid is...
01:09:59.000 It's great for you if you don't have cancer because you can build new DNA, but if you have cancer, taking a lot of it is not great for you because you build new DNA, and that's what cancer cells are doing when they're dividing.
01:10:09.000 And there's another example of that with another micronutrient, one of the vitamin E's.
01:10:16.000 Actually, this would be a transition into some of the Offit stuff because he was talking about that specifically.
01:10:24.000 Oh, that doctor, the stuff that I sent you?
01:10:27.000 Yeah.
01:10:28.000 So we definitely get into that, and I would love to in a moment.
01:10:32.000 So just to let everybody know, it seems, if you're not interested in doing any of the research, it seems that almost everyone who's done any research on this alkaline diet thing says it's horseshit.
01:10:45.000 But they do say that these foods that they're suggesting that you eat to keep an alkaline-rich diet are very healthy for you.
01:10:53.000 So in that sense, it's good for you because it's going to provide your body with the nutrients that it needs.
01:10:59.000 Especially if you're nutrient deficient, you're much more likely to be unhealthy.
01:11:01.000 If you're much more likely to be unhealthy, your immune system is going to have a harder time dealing with any host of different diseases.
01:11:07.000 But that this alkaline thing of your body, your body basically hovers between 7.35 and 7.45.
01:11:15.000 Your stomach is very acidic with a pH of 3.5 or below, so it can break down food.
01:11:20.000 And your urine changes depending on what you eat, and that's how your body keeps the level and your body steady.
01:11:26.000 But this idea that you're going to regulate the alkaline of your body with food and that you're going to keep your body in an alkaline state Well, there's a lot of those sort of, like, myths going on.
01:11:39.000 In fact, recently, I think I saw on your Twitter, you posted something, I don't know, a couple days ago about kale.
01:11:46.000 And it's really kind of...
01:11:49.000 These people are doing more harm, in a sense, in some cases.
01:11:54.000 So, you know, kale...
01:11:56.000 Kale and the cruciferous family, like broccoli, cabbage, Brussels sprouts, these things...
01:12:02.000 They have something in them called glucosinolates.
01:12:07.000 And glucosinolates can get cleaved by an enzyme called myrosinase, which is in the plant.
01:12:14.000 And it forms something called isothiocyanates.
01:12:18.000 Isothiocyanates have been shown to be very potent anti-cancer agents.
01:12:25.000 It's actually a part of that hormesis I was talking about because these are generated in the plant as a natural defense mechanism.
01:12:32.000 It's one of their natural defense mechanisms against bugs.
01:12:34.000 It's like a natural pesticide in a sense.
01:12:37.000 They produce it to keep bugs away.
01:12:40.000 Isothiocyanates For us, activate a variety of different genes that are involved in stress resistance, including tumor suppressor genes, which actually kill tumor cells.
01:12:51.000 And they've shown this.
01:12:52.000 They've shown this quite a few times.
01:12:55.000 That if you give mice, like mice that have cancer, isothiocyanates, they will kill the cancer cells.
01:13:02.000 And the whole isothiocyanates thing also competitively binds to the iodine transporter in the thyroid.
01:13:12.000 So here comes this whole, oh my god, you can't eat kale or cruciferous.
01:13:18.000 Because it will screw up your thyroid and cause hypothyroidism, right?
01:13:23.000 So the thing is, though, is these isothiocinates, they...
01:13:27.000 It appeared to compatibly bind to the same transporter that iodine does to get into the thyroid.
01:13:32.000 Now, I was looking for the paper where they showed that, and it's like 1948, because what I wanted to see was a dose-dependent manner of giving them these isothiocyanates, or kale, and show how much of it competes with iodine and how much it doesn't.
01:13:46.000 Well, I couldn't get access to that paper, but what I did find is that when you give these mice isothiocyanates, a lot of them, that kills cancer cells, but it doesn't cause any thyroid problems, which leads me to believe is that The isothiocyanide is probably very, very, very small degree of competitive inhibition of getting iodine into your thyroid,
01:14:05.000 which if you aren't low in iodine, it wouldn't be a problem.
01:14:09.000 So if it's just a very small amount of it competing with it to get iodine into the thyroid, it's not going to be a problem unless you're really, really deficient in iodine and then any small amount you need.
01:14:21.000 In my opinion, and for me, I love getting isothiocyanates from these cruciferous.
01:14:29.000 And by the way, the enzyme myrosinase that converts the glucosinolates into isothiocyanates is heat sensitive.
01:14:36.000 So if you heat it, it will generally inactivate it, not completely, but it does inactivate it for the most part.
01:14:43.000 And so you're not getting as many of those isothiocyanates, which is probably why people started to Oh, boil your kale.
01:14:49.000 I personally want the isothiocyanates because the data is so strong showing that these things kill cancer cells.
01:14:57.000 I mean, it's a well-known fact that these things...
01:15:00.000 So this idea that raw kale or any of these raw...
01:15:04.000 There's another one.
01:15:08.000 Yeah, Brussels sprouts.
01:15:09.000 But then there's another...
01:15:10.000 So that's that story.
01:15:12.000 But the idea that those are bad for you seems bullshit.
01:15:15.000 Yeah.
01:15:16.000 Well, yeah, that's what I'm just saying.
01:15:17.000 I mean, to me, you know, hormesis, okay, it depends on what you're defining as bad for you.
01:15:24.000 Hormesis, it's activating a bunch of genes that are tumor suppressor genes that kill cancer cells.
01:15:28.000 I mean, it's good for you.
01:15:29.000 These isothiocinates are good for you if you don't, if you're not, like, completely deficient in iodine, which most people aren't.
01:15:35.000 I mean, I think there's some problem with women in their 20s or 40s.
01:15:39.000 But if you supplemented iodine while you were taking these isothiocinates.
01:15:45.000 Isothiocinates.
01:15:46.000 Isothiocinates.
01:15:47.000 They're very...
01:15:48.000 I've been talking about these for years.
01:15:50.000 Like, how awesome they are.
01:15:51.000 I want them.
01:15:52.000 Like, I want them in my body.
01:15:54.000 You want them.
01:15:54.000 I want my isothiocinates.
01:15:56.000 You almost swore.
01:15:57.000 I'm telling you.
01:15:58.000 You got close.
01:15:58.000 Did I? You said it...
01:16:01.000 So, because they're fucking awesome.
01:16:05.000 It kind of irks me because I'm like, I see all this stuff and it's like, no, don't not eat your raw kale because you want to get things like isothiocin.
01:16:15.000 There's chemicals in these plants that are, yes, they're...
01:16:18.000 They're slightly toxic, but they're inducing stress response mechanisms in our body that are good for us.
01:16:26.000 They're fighting off all the bad stuff that we're making in our body every day.
01:16:30.000 It's a good thing.
01:16:31.000 Pre-cancerous cells are always happening.
01:16:34.000 Tumor suppressor genes are genes that when something's wrong, like you get that DNA damage I was talking about, something happens or a mutation happens in a cell.
01:16:43.000 It senses it.
01:16:44.000 And it activates this whole response pathway where it's like, die, and it kills the cell.
01:16:48.000 So having something that activates those pathways in your body, like isothiocyanates, is a good thing.
01:16:54.000 And personally, I want more of them.
01:16:57.000 So all this stuff about poorly researched, bad conclusions...
01:17:04.000 So, the thing is, when you look in the literature, if you're trying to look at the effects of isothiocinates on thyroid function, there's not a whole huge literature on it.
01:17:18.000 Like I said, I was looking for the experiment to prove to me, I wanted to see how much competitive inhibition there was of isothiocinates.
01:17:25.000 I think they're also called IC3s.
01:17:27.000 IC3s on the iodine transport in the thyroid.
01:17:30.000 I couldn't find it.
01:17:31.000 I saw review articles where they referred to it.
01:17:33.000 I looked at the reference.
01:17:34.000 Go to the reference.
01:17:35.000 It's some other review.
01:17:37.000 I wanted to see the data and I had to dig until I got to 1948 where they did this competitive binding assay.
01:17:45.000 Then I found other papers talking about, oh, it's only in effect if you have low iodine, which made me think, well...
01:17:53.000 I can't see the data, but what I think makes sense is that it's such a low competitive binding that it's not like if you eat this, you're going to not get iodine.
01:18:05.000 It's that if you already are at that point where you don't have it, Any little bit you don't get makes a difference.
01:18:11.000 And I know this because the mouse models, where they're not even looking at thyroid function, they're looking at the effects of isothiocinates on killing cancer cells.
01:18:19.000 Those mice have no problems with becoming hypothyroid, and they're giving them large doses.
01:18:23.000 So to me, I'm like, okay, well, that would have been a side effect they would have noticed.
01:18:28.000 So this is just completely theoretical, and it doesn't work.
01:18:31.000 It doesn't work in practice.
01:18:33.000 This idea of getting hypothyroidism from...
01:18:36.000 I think if you have normal levels of iodine, you're fine.
01:18:38.000 But if you're like one of those people that is iodine deficient, it may affect you.
01:18:45.000 Because if there's a small amount of...
01:18:47.000 It does seem to compete with iodine transport, but I think it's a very small competitive amount.
01:18:55.000 It's not like all the iodine.
01:18:57.000 It's not like all or nothing.
01:18:58.000 Like all of it's getting in or not getting in.
01:18:59.000 I think it's a very small amount that doesn't get in.
01:19:02.000 But if you're getting your iodine and it doesn't...
01:19:06.000 Are you following?
01:19:07.000 Totally.
01:19:08.000 I hope people can follow that.
01:19:13.000 There's so much of that online these days.
01:19:15.000 There's so much contrarianism.
01:19:17.000 There's so many people that want to debunk anything that comes out.
01:19:19.000 That's the thing.
01:19:20.000 And the other one is this oxalic acid.
01:19:22.000 I think you kind of confused the two.
01:19:24.000 That was the one that Dave Asprey had talked about.
01:19:27.000 Oh, does he?
01:19:28.000 Yeah, with kale.
01:19:29.000 That's why I brought that up.
01:19:30.000 With kale.
01:19:31.000 Yeah, he had said that you had to boil kale because of oxalic acid and drain the water.
01:19:35.000 Okay, so let me tell you about that.
01:19:37.000 The oxalic acid, I think there's a little bit in kale, but it's mostly in spinach.
01:19:43.000 Oxalic acid's in spinach.
01:19:44.000 It's much stronger in spinach.
01:19:45.000 Yeah.
01:19:45.000 That's the highest quantity.
01:19:47.000 And what people are saying on the internet from what I could see on this whole echo chamber thing that happens is that you need to boil your spinach, I guess, or in some people they're saying kale.
01:19:58.000 Because then...
01:20:00.000 You're going to inactivate this oxalic acid and now it's not going to bind up minerals like magnesium and calcium.
01:20:07.000 And they're saying that this is a problem if you don't do this because then you're going to get kidney stones.
01:20:13.000 So I was looking in the literature and I found a really cool experiment done by this Japanese group where they took spinach, raw spinach, they boiled it, they fried it, they frizzled it.
01:20:26.000 So they did various different temperatures.
01:20:29.000 And then you make it into a powder to give to these mice that are magnesium deficient.
01:20:33.000 They put them on a magnesium deficient diet and they fed them either the raw spinach, the boiled, the frizzled, the fried.
01:20:39.000 And they measured magnesium levels in their blood, in their bone, and they measured calcium levels in their blood and bone and also in their kidneys.
01:20:48.000 And what they found was that there was no difference in the magnesium and calcium levels in the bone and also in the serum.
01:20:57.000 Whether or not you boiled, raw, fried, whatever, frizzled.
01:21:02.000 However...
01:21:02.000 Sorry, no.
01:21:03.000 The calcium levels, there was a difference from frying it or frizzling it, but the raw and the boiling were the same.
01:21:09.000 And basically, the conclusions were, it doesn't affect absorption.
01:21:12.000 Boiling or raw, it's the same.
01:21:14.000 You're going to absorb the same amount of magnesium and calcium.
01:21:17.000 There were magnesium and calcium in the kidney.
01:21:19.000 They did have them in the kidney, and it was a little bit higher concentrated versus the control.
01:21:23.000 But it wasn't...
01:21:26.000 Causing kidney stones and things like that, and there was no difference between boiling or not.
01:21:30.000 So if you're going to make the claim that having oxalic acid causes kidney stones and you need to boil it, well, maybe you need to say don't eat it.
01:21:41.000 But I don't think that's the case.
01:21:42.000 I don't think any of that's the case.
01:21:44.000 So having oxalic acid in your diet, from consuming it in raw form, not bad?
01:21:50.000 I think you'd have to consume a massive, massive amount.
01:21:56.000 To cause something that would be like kidney stone.
01:21:59.000 So what do you mean, like eating it every day, all day, for a year?
01:22:02.000 No, I mean like eating like...
01:22:04.000 Pounds.
01:22:06.000 Pounds of it a day.
01:22:08.000 Every day?
01:22:09.000 Yeah, every day.
01:22:10.000 Okay.
01:22:12.000 That's beautiful.
01:22:13.000 Here, here's the bottom one.
01:22:14.000 I have not convinced myself that I have to boil any of my spinach or kale before I eat it raw.
01:22:21.000 I actually put it in a smoothie every morning.
01:22:23.000 I make a smoothie with kale...
01:22:25.000 Raw kale, raw spinach, tomato, carrot, avocado, banana, almond milk, some berries, and protein powder as well.
01:22:33.000 Anyways, I haven't convinced myself that eating raw spinach in my smoothie every day, and I put a nice amount of it.
01:22:40.000 It's not pounds of it, but I haven't convinced myself that I'm doing any harm.
01:22:47.000 And this is obviously not just based on the way your body reacts, but based on the research that you've done.
01:22:51.000 This is based on the little bit of reading that I've done on those.
01:22:55.000 The isothiocinates, I'm definitely convinced that, you know, the oxalic acid, you know, because it does bind minerals, it's chelator, you know, there may be some cases where kidney, you know, can accumulate in the kidney.
01:23:09.000 But I think that from my reading, that's a really, really large dose.
01:23:13.000 And I haven't convinced myself yet.
01:23:15.000 I'm not saying it's not possible, but I haven't convinced myself that I need to worry about it.
01:23:20.000 So, the idea that you're getting some sort of toxins from the vegetables because the vegetables are trying to prevent predation.
01:23:27.000 Right.
01:23:27.000 Nonsense.
01:23:29.000 No, you are getting...
01:23:30.000 But nonsense that it's bad for you.
01:23:34.000 They're activating hormesis, so it is kind of toxic for you.
01:23:38.000 But it's activating stress response pathways that are ultimately...
01:23:42.000 It's like, okay, a little bit of bad for you, activating a pathway really, really good for you.
01:23:48.000 Because now you're turning on hundreds of genes that are involved in DNA repair, that are involved in...
01:23:54.000 Glutathione peroxidase, getting rid of oxidation that are involved in making sure cancer cells die.
01:24:01.000 So to me, you are getting a little bit of these toxins from these plants, absolutely.
01:24:06.000 But your body's counteracting of these toxins is incredibly beneficial.
01:24:11.000 Your body is pretty amazing.
01:24:13.000 And it is pretty beneficial, the reaction to some of these toxins.
01:24:17.000 So the point being that the incorrect correlation that people have made between the very low toxicity between these plants, kale, broccoli, whatever, and them being something that you should avoid consuming unless you boil them.
01:24:30.000 That's just not...
01:24:31.000 In my opinion, it doesn't make sense.
01:24:34.000 It doesn't make sense.
01:24:35.000 It doesn't make sense to me either.
01:24:36.000 So I think people can take something little and it becomes sensational.
01:24:40.000 And they're like, oh, it's very sensational because what's good for you is bad for you.
01:24:45.000 But if you do this little thing, it becomes good for you again.
01:24:48.000 And I think that it's a good marketing tactic in some respects.
01:24:52.000 Do you know what I mean?
01:24:53.000 There is one case.
01:24:54.000 There's a study that you could find on a PubMed site about oxalign...
01:25:00.000 Yes.
01:25:00.000 Oxalate nephropathy due to juicing.
01:25:05.000 And this patient with oxalate induced acute renal failure that was attributable to a consumption of oxalate rich fruit and vegetable juices obtained from juicing.
01:25:18.000 We describe the case and also review the clinical presentation of 65 patients seen at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota.
01:25:25.000 From 1985 through 2010 with renal failure and biopsy-proven renal calcium oxalate crystals.
01:25:32.000 The cause of renal oxalosis was identified for all patients, a single cause for 36 patients and at least two causes for 29 patients.
01:25:44.000 Three patients, including our index patient, had presumed diet-induced oxalate nephropathy.
01:25:54.000 In the context of chronic kidney disease, identification of calcium oxalate crystals in a kidney biopsy should prompt an evaluation for causes of renal oxalosis.
01:26:07.000 So what does that mean?
01:26:09.000 Yeah, I mean, it sounds like these people, how many of them were there that had the, from the juicing?
01:26:15.000 Let's see.
01:26:16.000 65 patients from 1985 to 2010. That's a long time.
01:26:21.000 And to have 65 patients...
01:26:24.000 And all of them were from juicing?
01:26:25.000 Actually, single cause for 36 patients and at least two causes for 29 patients.
01:26:31.000 So two causes and then...
01:26:33.000 Yeah, the single cause for the 36 patients they believe was juicing.
01:26:36.000 So there was one, an N of one that they knew was juicing.
01:26:39.000 Okay.
01:26:39.000 And the other one, there's two causes.
01:26:41.000 And the other one, there's two causes.
01:26:42.000 So about three.
01:26:43.000 Yeah.
01:26:44.000 So to me, it sounds like, like I said, you know, there's always going to be cases where you can probably cause that to happen because it does...
01:27:02.000 Maybe so.
01:27:18.000 Yeah.
01:27:19.000 To liquefy it down to...
01:27:20.000 I make smoothies for the most part.
01:27:23.000 I don't juice.
01:27:25.000 Occasionally I buy cold-pressed juices.
01:27:28.000 But most of what I do, I just blend.
01:27:31.000 You're like me.
01:27:31.000 I don't juice either.
01:27:32.000 I actually have not ever juiced.
01:27:34.000 I make smoothies as well.
01:27:36.000 But, you know, it sounds to me like there can be cases where you're getting a really concentrated amount of this and you're doing it every day because there's people out there...
01:27:44.000 That go extreme and no matter what they do, they go like to the extreme.
01:27:49.000 And, you know, because you can, you know, the oxalic acid or the anion of it, the oxalate, can bind, does bind to these metal ions.
01:27:58.000 It chelates them.
01:28:00.000 It absolutely could accumulate in your kidney.
01:28:03.000 So the real key is the thing that we've always been taught, to eat a balanced diet.
01:28:09.000 I think most people are not going to that extreme.
01:28:12.000 And I don't think most people have to be under a fear that they can't eat raw spinach.
01:28:18.000 That's the thing.
01:28:19.000 I don't think you need to fear eating raw spinach.
01:28:22.000 I think maybe just Don't be a dumbass and like, you know, go way, way, way overboard.
01:28:28.000 Right.
01:28:29.000 So, you know, eating some raw juices is probably really good for you.
01:28:34.000 Eating nothing but raw juices all day, all your life, not so good for you.
01:28:38.000 Right.
01:28:38.000 You need animal protein or some other form of protein.
01:28:40.000 You need some other things and yeah, yeah.
01:28:44.000 There was another guy.
01:28:45.000 I know of a guy who Brock Lesnar was actually the UFC heavyweight champion who ate nothing but meat.
01:28:50.000 He was a fucking crazy person.
01:28:51.000 And he got diverticulitis.
01:28:53.000 And he had to get 12 inches of his colon removed.
01:28:56.000 Pretty serious operation.
01:28:58.000 It's really interesting that some...
01:29:01.000 I don't know how much of a degree of this is dose-dependent, but there's bacteria in your gut called putrefaction bacteria.
01:29:10.000 And they're called that because they're the bacteria that make that Really nasty smelling fart.
01:29:15.000 It's like hydrogen sulfide.
01:29:16.000 It smells like pure hydrogen sulfide.
01:29:19.000 And those bacteria, the putrefaction bacteria, they actually use sulfate and nitrate as their source of energy.
01:29:27.000 And they convert it into, for example, hydrogen sulfide.
01:29:31.000 But they need...
01:29:32.000 It's basically what we do with oxygen.
01:29:34.000 They do that with these sulfate.
01:29:36.000 And they make it into hydrogen sulfide.
01:29:38.000 It's like us converting oxygen to water.
01:29:40.000 That's how we make ATP. They do this by...
01:29:42.000 Converting sulfate into hydrogen sulfide, and that's their energy, this putrefaction bacteria.
01:29:47.000 Well, they need these, I guess, cofactors to do this, and that's heme.
01:29:54.000 Heme is in red meat.
01:29:55.000 And so some people that eat really, really large doses of red meat, like what happens is you're giving those bacteria heme.
01:30:03.000 And they start to make hydrogen sulfide.
01:30:06.000 First of all, you get putrification of bacteria.
01:30:09.000 So you'll have nasty smelling farts like hydrogen sulfide farts.
01:30:13.000 And also hydrogen sulfide competitively binds to enzymes in our gut cells that make energy.
01:30:23.000 So hydrogen sulfide goes and binds to these electron transport chain enzymes that make ATP in our gut cells and competitively Yeah.
01:30:38.000 Yeah.
01:30:39.000 Yeah.
01:30:55.000 Yeah, so like I said, I think it's a dose, you know, really dose-dependent thing because eating a little bit of meat, it depends.
01:31:02.000 I mean, you know your own body.
01:31:03.000 If you're eating tons of meat and you start smelling these hydrogen sulfide farts and...
01:31:06.000 That's not good, right?
01:31:09.000 Probably not.
01:31:09.000 Not good.
01:31:10.000 So if you smell a guy who's farting like that, you should talk to him.
01:31:13.000 But it's like, it's not the kind of fart that, you know, it's the pure...
01:31:17.000 Those ones that are like, oh, good God.
01:31:19.000 Yeah, it's that.
01:31:20.000 It's that one.
01:31:21.000 Yeah.
01:31:22.000 Yeah.
01:31:23.000 Stuff's going on, yeah.
01:31:24.000 Those are bodybuilding farts.
01:31:26.000 Makes sense, because they eat a lot of red meat, right?
01:31:29.000 Just, well, a lot of protein, period, you know?
01:31:32.000 Does it affect other types of protein?
01:31:34.000 No, it's what gives red meat the red color.
01:31:37.000 Ah, I see.
01:31:38.000 Yeah, it's specific to red meat.
01:31:39.000 So, the more red meat, the more horrible farts.
01:31:43.000 That makes sense.
01:31:46.000 Who do you think about having the worst farts?
01:31:48.000 It's always guys with big guts.
01:31:51.000 If someone farts on an airplane, you always look at the guy with the gut.
01:31:55.000 It's very difficult to figure out who's farting on an airplane.
01:31:58.000 That's one of the reasons why people are so sneaky about it.
01:32:01.000 Sneaky airplane farters, you know who you are.
01:32:03.000 But the guys with the big guts, they're usually the culprit.
01:32:07.000 I mean, it's the putrefaction bacteria.
01:32:10.000 I mean, they're named for a reason.
01:32:13.000 They're pretty nasty.
01:32:15.000 It makes you want to throw up.
01:32:16.000 It does.
01:32:19.000 So, off it.
01:32:21.000 This is, you know, my friend Brian Callen, who I love dearly, but he's fucking ridiculous.
01:32:27.000 And he's one of those guys that will get on this tangent and...
01:32:31.000 Listen to one person say something and then spout it out as if it's fucking gospel.
01:32:38.000 And he hit me with this Peter Offit guy.
01:32:41.000 Is that the guy's name?
01:32:42.000 Paul, maybe?
01:32:43.000 Paul, whatever the fuck.
01:32:44.000 Dr. Offit, whatever the fuck his name is.
01:32:46.000 And he listened to this guy and without debunking it online at all, and I did it real quick.
01:32:53.000 I did a real quick debunking of it and found a bunch of people who called bullshit on all of his claims.
01:32:58.000 I mean, all these studies were from 1942, and it's just like, so much of what this guy had said was horseshit.
01:33:07.000 One of them often claimed that a study...
01:33:10.000 What this guy was basically saying was that taking vitamins and taking antioxidants can actually cause cancer.
01:33:17.000 And, you know, Callan, of course, never wants to be wrong, so he's telling me, no, no, no, no, all studies confirm this.
01:33:22.000 I'm like, what the fuck they do, man?
01:33:24.000 So I sent him all this, you know, I barraged him with all these debunking sites, and he backed off, finally.
01:33:32.000 But for fucking days, his Twitter was all about, don't take antioxidants.
01:33:36.000 Oh, so you convinced him?
01:33:38.000 No, he fucking called me up.
01:33:39.000 He's like, dude, I'm really worried about you.
01:33:40.000 You're taking antioxidants, you're taking vitamins, I'm worried you're going to get cancer.
01:33:43.000 I'm like, What the fuck are you talking about?
01:33:45.000 We need to dive into this.
01:33:47.000 Please.
01:33:48.000 It angers me.
01:33:50.000 What was the name of the book he wrote?
01:33:51.000 It's Do You Believe in Me?
01:33:52.000 It's called I'm a Cunt.
01:33:53.000 That's his book.
01:33:54.000 I'm a cunt and I'm trying to make money.
01:33:56.000 I think that's what's going on with a lot of these fuckheads.
01:33:59.000 These contrarians with these people that make these articles.
01:34:02.000 I don't know how many of them are just idiots.
01:34:04.000 I don't know how many of them are like Brian Dunning where they just sort of...
01:34:07.000 They're mentally deficient.
01:34:08.000 There's something wrong with the way their thinking works.
01:34:10.000 Yes.
01:34:11.000 Yes.
01:34:11.000 And I discovered that in communicating with Brian over three hours.
01:34:15.000 I'm like, oh, there's something wrong here.
01:34:16.000 And I don't know what it is.
01:34:18.000 And I don't want to know what it is, but you're not normal.
01:34:21.000 You're not healthy.
01:34:22.000 Your correlations are not healthy.
01:34:26.000 Discussing buildings falling.
01:34:28.000 His way of looking at things is unhealthy.
01:34:31.000 It's not correct.
01:34:32.000 I don't know if that's what this guy's doing.
01:34:34.000 I don't know if a lot of ice people are doing things.
01:34:37.000 I think they're just trying to get attention.
01:34:39.000 Kale's gonna kill you.
01:34:40.000 Fucking kale's gonna kill me.
01:34:41.000 Everybody knows that people are loving kale these days.
01:34:44.000 People are finding these health benefits scales.
01:34:45.000 I talk freely and openly about how I drink kale salads.
01:34:50.000 Or kale shakes, rather.
01:34:51.000 On a regular basis.
01:34:52.000 I feel great when I take them.
01:34:54.000 And then people will send me these fucking things.
01:34:57.000 So I retweet some of them.
01:34:59.000 And then I'll find contradictory articles.
01:35:01.000 I retweet those.
01:35:02.000 So this off-it fucking thing just drove me up a wall.
01:35:06.000 Because I started reading all the people that call bullshit on this guy.
01:35:09.000 And all these people that say that he's kind of dangerous.
01:35:12.000 That the things he's saying are kind of dangerous.
01:35:14.000 Because they're easily refutable.
01:35:16.000 But he's trying to sell them.
01:35:17.000 He's selling them as fact.
01:35:19.000 Yeah, so let's dig in here because I really...
01:35:24.000 First of all, I wasn't familiar with the guy until you brought him to my attention.
01:35:28.000 And actually, my advisor, my postdoctoral advisor, he's an 85-year-old world-renowned scientist.
01:35:34.000 He knew who the guy was.
01:35:35.000 He was like...
01:35:36.000 You're going to crush him!
01:35:37.000 He really doesn't like this guy.
01:35:40.000 He's familiar with everything he's doing.
01:35:42.000 That's why I was so angry at Callan because if you go online, there's just a fucking slew of reputable people that think this guy's a nut.
01:35:50.000 I didn't read his book, but I listened to the podcast and I took notes on what he said.
01:35:55.000 I'm ready.
01:35:56.000 Let's go through some of this because I think it's really important.
01:35:59.000 First of all, this guy makes huge overgeneralizations.
01:36:02.000 Doesn't understand mechanism.
01:36:04.000 That's clear to me.
01:36:05.000 So the first thing he says is that, you know, we should have...
01:36:09.000 If we're going to look at the effects of supplements, we need to do randomized controlled trials.
01:36:14.000 We need to hold all drugs to the same standard.
01:36:17.000 We need to do randomized controlled trials.
01:36:19.000 So randomized controlled trials are like the poster child for pharmacological interventions, drug interventions.
01:36:25.000 And what they are is you basically get a population of people...
01:36:28.000 You split them into two groups and you're going to have either your drug Blablabinol or placebo.
01:36:34.000 And you're going to give whichever group one, drug Blablabinol and the other group the placebo.
01:36:39.000 And you don't know who's getting what.
01:36:40.000 They don't know who's getting what.
01:36:41.000 And then you're going to look at some clinical endpoint like heart attack or mitochondrial infarction or something like that.
01:36:48.000 And it's really a great design for that sort of thing because You know, when you start off at baseline, everyone in the trial has same levels of drug blah, blah, blah in their blood.
01:36:59.000 Guess what?
01:36:59.000 Zero.
01:37:00.000 Because we don't make drugs.
01:37:01.000 We don't eat drugs.
01:37:02.000 You know, it's not something that we're, you know, eating on a daily basis.
01:37:06.000 This is a pharmacological drug that's been designed with a certain mechanism of action to act on a certain thing to do a certain thing, right?
01:37:13.000 Like, you know, statins, for example.
01:37:15.000 So...
01:37:16.000 You know, you can do that where you have this randomized controlled trial for a certain X amount of time and you look at the effect on heart attacks.
01:37:23.000 And you don't have to measure anything, you know?
01:37:26.000 The problem is, is that you can't apply that same thinking for nutrition research.
01:37:35.000 I think?
01:37:54.000 Well, guess what?
01:37:55.000 You're going to have people that were severely deficient and whatever you gave them, they're still severely deficient.
01:38:01.000 Or you're going to have people that have total adequate levels and you're giving them a vitamin they already have adequate levels of and you're trying to look at some clinical endpoint.
01:38:09.000 You can't do nutrition research with The same mind frame, whereas we're looking at, we're going to do the same type of trial that we do for drugs.
01:38:18.000 That's just, you can't do that.
01:38:20.000 You can't do that.
01:38:21.000 You have to think about the way you control and design a clinical trial.
01:38:24.000 And when you're doing nutrition research, where you're looking at the effects of vitamins and minerals, first of all, there's two very different things going on.
01:38:32.000 When you have a pharmacological drug, you're giving it to someone because they're already falling apart.
01:38:37.000 They're already falling apart and you're trying to help them not fall apart as fast by giving them something that blocks X or Y or Z, like cholesterol synthesis for one, statins.
01:38:47.000 With vitamins and minerals, these are things that are important for preventing you from falling apart.
01:38:54.000 These are things that we require, these enzymes we need, cofactors for enzymes that we need to do like hundreds of different physiological functions, thousands of different physiological functions.
01:39:06.000 We're talking about a different start point, right?
01:39:26.000 And that's how we determine whether or not they're effective or their efficacy, basically.
01:39:31.000 But like I said, you can't do that.
01:39:33.000 You have to measure people's vitamin and mineral levels.
01:39:35.000 Let's say you're looking at vitamin D at baseline to see how deficient they are.
01:39:40.000 For one, this is going to determine the dose that you give them.
01:39:42.000 If someone's like 12 nanograms per milliliter and you give them 400 IUs a day, They've even shown in that annals of internal medicine paper that doesn't work.
01:39:52.000 They're still going to be deficient at the end of the trial because 400 IUs a day raises your blood levels by like 5 nanograms per milliliter.
01:39:58.000 So that's not the way to do nutrition research.
01:40:02.000 The difference being that giving someone something that's completely alien to the body but could be beneficial like a drug or giving them something that is absolutely essential to the body that is necessary and is a part of normal everyday diet, that you can't look at the two of them the same way,
01:40:17.000 that the drug may help people but the reality is you're introducing something That's completely alien to the person's system in order to benefit them, whereas with vitamins, you are just regulating or measuring what is essential to the human body and pretty much has been established that vitamin B,
01:40:37.000 vitamin D, vitamin C, all these different things, various aspects of nutrition are essential to human health.
01:40:44.000 That's one aspect of it, yes.
01:40:46.000 So you can't look at a drug the same way you look at vitamins.
01:40:48.000 You can't.
01:40:49.000 And also, like I said, people already start off with varying levels of these vitamins.
01:40:53.000 So when you're randomizing them into two different populations, you don't know.
01:40:56.000 Some of these people could be very deficient.
01:40:58.000 Some have plenty of...
01:41:00.000 I think we're good to go.
01:41:17.000 It's not like a drug where you're blocking some receptor and having some response.
01:41:21.000 No.
01:41:21.000 You're taking vitamins and mineral supplements because you're not getting everything you need from your food and you want to get yourself up to an adequate level.
01:41:28.000 And so what you need to do is start off.
01:41:30.000 You need to measure people's levels at baseline.
01:41:32.000 Start off with the population that's inadequate.
01:41:35.000 Give them a vitamin and a mineral supplement to get them to an adequate level and then you can measure something.
01:41:40.000 So it's really important, and I think I even talked about this last time, is quantifying these levels.
01:41:44.000 Well, this is the reason why.
01:41:46.000 Starting off with a population of people that has enough vitamin D, and you're trying to look at the effects of vitamin D on cancer incidence, well, guess what?
01:41:55.000 They already have enough vitamin D. They're already in this adequate range.
01:41:58.000 Or conversely, if they're really, really, really deficient, and you're looking at the effects of vitamin D on cancer incidence, and you give them a dose that they're still deficient, well, guess what?
01:42:09.000 We don't know how vitamin D is affecting cancer from that one study because they're still deficient at the end of the trial.
01:42:15.000 So the conclusion is, oh, my dose was inadequate to bring them to an adequate level of vitamin D. That should be the conclusion, not, oh, vitamin D doesn't affect cancer incidence, which is what people tend to do.
01:42:29.000 You have to sell your story to get it published.
01:42:32.000 You do years and years' work of...
01:42:34.000 Research and you find negative data.
01:42:37.000 It's like, well, you got to sell it somehow.
01:42:39.000 So you're not going to sell it by saying, oh, well, didn't give them an adequate dose and they're still not, you know, up to adequate level.
01:42:45.000 So that's That's really the one first thing about Offit and so many others, including the people that wrote this whole Enough is Enough editorial.
01:42:54.000 They were looking at randomized control trials.
01:42:57.000 Most of the time, they started off with people, didn't measure anything at all at start or throughout the follow-ups, and it's like, well...
01:43:05.000 Well, the enough is enough was even worse because the enough is enough, they were studying, two of the things they were studying were heart attacks in people over 65 and dementia, delaying the onset of dementia in people who are over 65. Like, Jesus fucking Christ,
01:43:21.000 you're talking about people who are dying.
01:43:22.000 Right.
01:43:23.000 And you're giving them vitamins and saying, ah, didn't stop them from dying.
01:43:26.000 Right.
01:43:27.000 You're dealing with complete...
01:43:28.000 We're good to go.
01:43:52.000 Right.
01:43:54.000 Vitamins and minerals are important to prevent disease.
01:43:57.000 They are important to prevent disease.
01:43:59.000 It's not like if you're already falling apart and you've already been deficient for years and years and years and years and years, guess what?
01:44:06.000 It's much harder to patch things up.
01:44:07.000 Much more difficult.
01:44:08.000 You've already acquired so much damage.
01:44:10.000 You've acquired so many different things that are going wrong.
01:44:13.000 That trying to patch it up later is really difficult.
01:44:16.000 And so, you know, in those studies also they did things where they were giving it to cancer patients.
01:44:21.000 And like I said, or smokers.
01:44:23.000 They were looking at the effects of beta carotene or vitamin A in smokers.
01:44:27.000 And the thing is, is that smokers are...
01:44:32.000 A different breed because, I mean, they're taking in poison every day.
01:44:37.000 And what happens is their lungs, they have a very oxidative environment.
01:44:40.000 So when they take beta carotene, which is part of the vitamin A family, this beta carotene gets cleaved because they have oxidative stress and stuff going on.
01:44:49.000 It gets cleaved into some of these cleavage products which actually damage DNA more.
01:44:53.000 And can accelerate cancer.
01:44:56.000 But the thing is that that's specific to smokers.
01:44:58.000 If you give the same dose of beta-carotene to a non-smoker, guess what?
01:45:02.000 That doesn't happen.
01:45:02.000 They don't get those cleavage products and it doesn't start to damage their DNA more and it doesn't accelerate cancer.
01:45:08.000 So, you know, you have to really, the context is so important.
01:45:11.000 Like, you know, you can't just say, oh, vitamin A is bad for you.
01:45:14.000 No.
01:45:15.000 Well, if you're a smoker, it's a, you know, this is a certain context where, you know, there can be problems with taking high doses of beta carotene for that reason, where you've got all these oxidative, you know, stress things going on, and so they cleave the beta carotene to certain cleavage products that normal people don't get.
01:45:33.000 You know, so context is very important, and this is something that so many people So often ignore, including off it.
01:45:41.000 He basically states that it's clear and consistent that antioxidant supplements are bad for you and can give you cancer.
01:45:53.000 And he gives two examples.
01:45:54.000 The one example he says is the prostate cancer study.
01:45:58.000 And the second example he says is because you need pro-oxidants around in your body It's kind of a big overgeneralization and it really shows me his lack of understanding,
01:46:15.000 his lack of understanding of mechanism, either because it's too much work to look into it because it's a lot of work or just because he doesn't care.
01:46:25.000 Let's start off with the first part.
01:46:27.000 He says, vitamin E can cause prostate cancer.
01:46:31.000 This is huge.
01:46:33.000 Actually, there was a huge, huge study called the SELECT trial, where they took the selenium and vitamin E cancer prevention trial.
01:46:41.000 Selenium is also important.
01:46:43.000 It's a cofactor for about 25 or so different proteins, one of them being glutathione peroxidase and synthase and all these different antioxidant genes.
01:46:55.000 High selenium was correlated with low cancer incidence.
01:46:58.000 So they thought that would play a role in prostate cancer.
01:47:01.000 So they did this big trial where they got something like 30,000 men.
01:47:05.000 It's pretty big.
01:47:06.000 And they gave them supplements.
01:47:08.000 They gave them either vitamin E. So vitamin E is actually, there's a whole family of vitamin E. It's not just one vitamin.
01:47:16.000 There's actually eight different forms of it.
01:47:18.000 And alpha, beta, gamma, delta.
01:47:21.000 And the present is either tocopherols or tocotrienols, trienols.
01:47:26.000 The major forms are alpha and gamma tocopherol.
01:47:30.000 And these two different forms of vitamin E, the alpha and gamma tocopherol, they're antioxidants, but they actually have separate functions.
01:47:38.000 So the alpha tocopherol is a very potent antioxidant.
01:47:42.000 So it's very good at getting reactive oxygen radicals that's generated by normal metabolism.
01:47:50.000 These things damage your DNA, but they also damage your lipid-like bilayer of your cell membranes.
01:47:55.000 What happens is vitamin E is fat-soluble, so it gets in those lipid bilayers and it prevents that oxygen radical from damaging it.
01:48:03.000 And what happens is if you don't have that happening, your lipid membranes get stiffer and stiffer over time.
01:48:08.000 This is part of aging where they become rigid and it's hard to transport metabolites into your cells.
01:48:13.000 It's hard to transport proteins in and out.
01:48:15.000 It just screws up stuff.
01:48:16.000 So it's important to have You know, something like alpha tocopherol preventing that from happening.
01:48:22.000 It also prevents your proteins from being oxidized, which causes problems.
01:48:26.000 So that's really important to have, you know, and you actually need to get it from your diet.
01:48:30.000 Vitamin E's you have to get from your diet from plants.
01:48:33.000 We don't make it ourselves.
01:48:34.000 The gamma form actually is also an antioxidant, but it's an anti-nitration one.
01:48:40.000 So nitration is formed from your immune system.
01:48:43.000 Just normal immune function, like, you know, fighting off things.
01:48:47.000 It creates reactive nitrogen species.
01:48:49.000 So these nitrogen species also do the same thing as oxygen species.
01:48:53.000 They damage your DNA, they damage your lipid membranes, they damage proteins in your body.
01:48:57.000 So having both alpha tocopherol and the gamma tocopherol, they're doing two independent functions, is important because they're making sure you're not getting those oxygen or nitrogen reactive species damaging crap in your body, basically.
01:49:11.000 Okay.
01:49:11.000 And that's important to prevent cancer, to prevent, you know, a lot of, you know, diseases of aging.
01:49:17.000 So proteins that become oxidized or get nitrated aggregate and they can form, you know, things and plaques in your brain, they can cause neurodegenerative diseases.
01:49:25.000 So it's important to have, you know, these antioxidant mechanisms in play to prevent that from happening as we age.
01:49:31.000 Okay.
01:49:32.000 So with that said, the alpha tocopherol, and you can see how complex this is, you know, the alpha tocopherol It's the major form in your tissues and in your bloodstream.
01:49:42.000 The problem is that when you take really high levels of it, so the RDA is like 22.4 IUs.
01:49:48.000 When you take really high, like 10 times that, like 400 IUs, what happens is it depletes your gamma levels.
01:49:57.000 And this has been well known for over a decade.
01:50:00.000 Multiple labs have shown this, including the lab I work in.
01:50:03.000 They showed it many years ago before I even joined their lab.
01:50:06.000 So taking high, high levels of alpha...
01:50:09.000 It can be bad because it depletes the gamma, and the gamma has a separate function from the alpha.
01:50:13.000 It prevents that nitration.
01:50:15.000 It also is an anti-inflammatory, inhibits COX enzymes, which are involved in generating prostaglandins.
01:50:21.000 So what they did was they gave men either alpha-tocopherol, 400 IUs, so 10 times the RDA, maybe even more than 10 times, and selenium.
01:50:32.000 Okay?
01:50:33.000 So they gave them either alpha-tocopherol, selenium only, or both.
01:50:36.000 Alpha-tocopherol and selenium or the placebo.
01:50:39.000 And then they looked, they followed up, they did a couple of follow-ups to look at prostate cancer incidence.
01:50:45.000 Okay?
01:50:46.000 So the first study was about a five and a half year follow-up.
01:50:49.000 And this was published in like 2009. And what it found was there was no effect.
01:50:52.000 Taking vitamin E had no effect on cancer incidence.
01:50:55.000 Taking selenium had no effect.
01:50:57.000 But what you can see if you look at the data is they measured their alpha and gamma levels at baseline.
01:51:03.000 And then at five and a half years, what happened was those men taking 400 IUs depleted their gamma tocopherol by like 45% at the end of the follow-up, which is like crazy.
01:51:14.000 That's not good.
01:51:15.000 And then the second follow-up, what it found is seven and a half years later, they found that, oh my goodness, the men taking 400 IUs of alpha-tocopherol had a 17% increased risk of prostate cancer.
01:51:29.000 And then they went on to say, oh my goodness, 400 IUs of vitamin E a day can cause prostate cancer.
01:51:34.000 However, the men taking the selenium with the vitamin E didn't get it.
01:51:39.000 The men taking that alpha-tocopherol by itself but took ones that took the selenium with it didn't get it.
01:51:45.000 So the selenium protected and they didn't know why.
01:51:47.000 So another study then recently came out from the same, this is all the same big cohort of people, found that only the men that were severely deficient in selenium to start the trial that took the alpha-tocopherol We're the ones that had the increased cancer incidence.
01:52:02.000 So I started thinking about this.
01:52:03.000 Well, why is that?
01:52:05.000 Selenium also is important.
01:52:07.000 Like I said, it's important for like 25 or so proteins.
01:52:10.000 One of them is important for preventing nitration, reactive nitration products.
01:52:16.000 So I was like, wow, well, this makes sense.
01:52:18.000 You're taking high levels of alpha-tocopherol, depleting your gamma levels, which is important to get rid of nitration damage, right?
01:52:24.000 Which damages DNA, causes cancer, things like that.
01:52:27.000 And yet...
01:52:29.000 You can give someone the selenium, or if they're not deficient in the selenium, that doesn't happen.
01:52:34.000 And one of these selenium proteins also does that.
01:52:36.000 So the bottom line is, does taking normal levels of alpha-tocopherol, like 22 or 30 IUs a day, Deplete your gamma levels?
01:52:46.000 No.
01:52:46.000 Is it good for you?
01:52:49.000 Is it going to prevent your lipid membranes from oxidizing and your DNA from getting oxidized?
01:52:54.000 Yes.
01:52:55.000 Is it going to give you cancer?
01:52:56.000 No.
01:52:57.000 It's actually the opposite.
01:52:58.000 It prevents cancer.
01:52:59.000 Is taking high, high levels of alpha-tocopherol dangerous?
01:53:03.000 Well, it can be, yes, because it depletes your gamma.
01:53:06.000 So taking high levels of alpha-tocopherol is not a good thing because it can deplete your gamma.
01:53:11.000 But that's only if you're also selenium deficient.
01:53:13.000 It's very, very complicated.
01:53:15.000 It is not simple, and it's not as simple as taking vitamin E is going to give you cancer.
01:53:20.000 No, there's a whole host of complex mechanisms that are at play here.
01:53:24.000 And the reality is, you know, if you want to...
01:53:26.000 60% of the population doesn't have enough alpha-tocopherol, okay?
01:53:30.000 60%.
01:53:31.000 So if you want to supplement with it...
01:53:34.000 Just don't be dumb.
01:53:35.000 Take a lower level of it and supplement with the mix.
01:53:38.000 You can buy mixed tocopherols together.
01:53:40.000 So they get the alpha, the gamma, the beta.
01:53:42.000 What is a good source of that?
01:53:45.000 So avocados, pecans, walnuts, plant sources.
01:53:49.000 I like to get my almonds also.
01:53:52.000 So I get my vitamin E mostly from plant sources.
01:53:56.000 And also I use almond milk.
01:53:58.000 I have unsweetened almond milk in my smoothies.
01:54:00.000 Like I said, I make a really big smoothie every morning, which has all these different micronutrients.
01:54:05.000 Unsweetened is the key, really.
01:54:06.000 Right.
01:54:06.000 I have a friend who said, oh, almond milk's amazing.
01:54:09.000 I'm not drinking milk anymore.
01:54:09.000 It tastes so good.
01:54:10.000 I go, okay, okay.
01:54:11.000 What is it?
01:54:12.000 What kind of flavor is it?
01:54:13.000 And he goes, vanilla.
01:54:13.000 I go, look at the fucking label, please.
01:54:15.000 Right.
01:54:15.000 I go, what does it say as far as grams of sugar?
01:54:18.000 It's 19 grams of sugar per serving.
01:54:21.000 Yeah, you have to get the unsweetened.
01:54:23.000 You have to get the unsweetened.
01:54:24.000 But it has a lot of magnesium in it and a lot of the mixed vitamin E, so it's a good source.
01:54:30.000 So, vitamin E supplementation, in your opinion, you should probably just get it from diet to make sure that your levels are normal, healthy levels, and that it's the balance of the different types of vitamin E's?
01:54:42.000 Yeah, I prefer getting it from diet.
01:54:44.000 There are mixed tocopherols that you can buy that are low.
01:54:48.000 It's not like 10 times the RDA, and they're mixed, so you're getting the gamma with the alpha.
01:54:53.000 Do you know of a good source for that?
01:54:56.000 I think there's Swanson brand may have a good one.
01:55:00.000 Is that what you mean by a brand?
01:55:01.000 Yeah, like a good company.
01:55:02.000 Yeah, and then I think that might be a good one.
01:55:05.000 I can't recall off the top of my head, but they are pretty reliable in general.
01:55:09.000 So in a sense, he oversimplified things, but there is a danger of taking too many vitamins when you're taking vitamins like a vitamin E that could potentially...
01:55:21.000 If you're taking one form of it, that could potentially deplete your absorption of the other form.
01:55:27.000 Exactly.
01:55:27.000 If you're taking a really, really high dose of the alpha tocopherol, vitamin E, there could be a potential danger in it depleting the gamma form.
01:55:36.000 And how would anyone know whether they're taking alpha or gamma to just have a vitamin E thing?
01:55:41.000 If you have a vitamin E container and you look on the back of it, it'll say alpha tocopherol.
01:55:47.000 It says alpha or gamma.
01:55:50.000 Most supplemental forms are alpha.
01:55:53.000 And that's because that's the predominant species found in tissues and plasma.
01:55:58.000 So we thought it was the most important species.
01:56:01.000 But we found that gamma is also really important.
01:56:03.000 But you can buy mixed tocopherols.
01:56:06.000 You can buy mixed tocopherols.
01:56:08.000 Okay.
01:56:08.000 So that is just one thing that he brought up that was incorrect.
01:56:12.000 Well, yeah.
01:56:13.000 So that was one.
01:56:13.000 He said the data is clear and consistent.
01:56:16.000 And for one...
01:56:18.000 That's anything but clear.
01:56:19.000 I mean, there's lots of complex things going on.
01:56:21.000 And he said that it's clear and consistent that supplemental antioxidants cause cancer.
01:56:25.000 Well, there's also other studies showing that in the case of prostate cancer, if you look at their blood levels of alpha, tocopherol, and gamma, those with the highest levels of alpha Gamma and Gamma have the least prostate cancer incidence.
01:56:41.000 So there's inconsistencies in terms of what exactly is going on and we're still really trying to understand all the mechanisms at play.
01:56:49.000 But he also made the overgeneralization that taking supplemental antioxidants is bad because you need pro-oxidants to kill cancer cells.
01:56:59.000 And that was like the second part of his why supplemental antioxidants are bad.
01:57:04.000 This is another example of context.
01:57:08.000 If you don't have enough of the alpha, gamma, tocopherols, then you're going to have increased DNA damage.
01:57:16.000 You're going to have things that cause mutations.
01:57:21.000 What happens is you're going to accumulate that over time and that's going to lead to cancer.
01:57:26.000 So not having enough of this vitamin E is not good.
01:57:28.000 Like I said, 60% of the population doesn't have enough.
01:57:31.000 But the flip side is that if you already have cancer, then taking supplemental vitamin E, what happens is because it prevents that oxidation, then there's mechanisms in your body that induce cell death.
01:57:46.000 When you have oxidation, when you have this damage to your DNA, tumor suppressor genes get activated and they kill the cell.
01:57:53.000 So what they've shown is that in mice, if you take mice that already, if you give them cancer and you give them supplemental vitamin E, you can attenuate that whole pathway that activates the death of these cancer cells.
01:58:05.000 But that's not the case if you take a mouse that doesn't have cancer and you give them vitamin E. It actually prevents the DNA damage.
01:58:10.000 So this is a case where you're looking at context.
01:58:13.000 So if someone that doesn't have cancer on their body, you want to make sure they're not causing DNA damage, which is happening every second, by making sure they have enough of these antioxidants.
01:58:26.000 But on the flip side of that, if you already have cancer, taking a bunch of supplemental vitamin E is not a good thing because you can attenuate that.
01:58:34.000 Yeah.
01:58:53.000 So it's just incredibly irresponsible to make a simplified version of these incredibly complex processes that are going on.
01:59:02.000 In my opinion, it's a big, big overgeneralization and it's probably because diving deep into this stuff, it takes time and it's complex and you need to understand how some of these things are interacting and working.
01:59:17.000 So it's much easier to be like, oh, you read the study, the conclusions, and oh, yep, that's it.
01:59:24.000 That's the thing that people love, too.
01:59:25.000 They love when someone can break it down in a clear sentence.
01:59:28.000 Antioxidants can cause cancer.
01:59:29.000 Well, let me get on Twitter and let everybody know that they're being an idiot.
01:59:33.000 Right.
01:59:33.000 I mean, people love doing that.
01:59:35.000 They love saying things like that.
01:59:37.000 Controversial.
01:59:38.000 Nice, clear, concise, easy to digest.
01:59:41.000 You know, high alkaline diet kills cancer.
01:59:45.000 Oh, I didn't even know.
01:59:47.000 I'm just going to fucking...
01:59:48.000 I don't think there was any possible way I could boil that down into like one sentence.
01:59:53.000 Didn't seem like you could.
01:59:54.000 Biology is very complex.
01:59:56.000 And trying to oversimplify it doesn't necessarily mean you have a good understanding of the complexities.
02:00:05.000 This is certainly going to be a podcast that requires a notepad.
02:00:08.000 You're going to have to do a lot of Googling.
02:00:11.000 And remembering.
02:00:12.000 The whole alpha-tocopherol and gamma-tocopherol, it's something I think is important for people to understand.
02:00:21.000 Alpha-tocopherol is the major supplemental form.
02:00:23.000 And the last study I saw said something about 11% of the population takes high levels.
02:00:30.000 Of alpha-tocopherol.
02:00:32.000 So, you know, you have a certain percent of the population that's going overboard, and they probably don't know about the effects that's going on, you know, the depletion of their gamma and how that can be bad.
02:00:43.000 So I think it is important for those people to realize that.
02:00:46.000 But on the flip side, you know, someone like Offit, his solution to that is he wants to have high-dose vitamins, FDA regulated, so that people like him, who have an MD, can prescribe them.
02:00:59.000 And So that's his solution to, you know, high dose vitamins.
02:01:04.000 And yeah, it's, if you think about it, First of all, who's going to define what a high dose is?
02:01:11.000 Is it the RDA? Because if you look at something like vitamin D, right now the RDA for vitamin D is like 600 IUs a day, and 70% of the population doesn't have enough vitamin D. Taking 600 IUs a day, if you're deficient, isn't going to get you to an adequate level.
02:01:28.000 So that's not a good level.
02:01:29.000 What is a good level of vitamin D? If 600 is not an accurate level, what's an accurate level?
02:01:35.000 So, you know, in a couple of studies that I've read where people that were deficient in vitamin D took 4,000 IUs a day for a year, that was enough to get them up to 30 nanograms per milliliter.
02:01:48.000 It took a year?
02:01:49.000 It took a year.
02:01:50.000 Holy shit.
02:01:51.000 Why does it take so long?
02:01:53.000 Well, they measured it after a year, so...
02:01:56.000 It's possible if they had done some time points maybe in between that it could have raised their levels higher than that.
02:02:04.000 Was it a slow absorption into the body or something?
02:02:08.000 Why would it take so long to get the levels higher?
02:02:10.000 I'm not saying it's going to take a year.
02:02:12.000 It's just the way the study was designed.
02:02:15.000 They measured it a year later.
02:02:16.000 So it's possible that it didn't take a year, but the study was that they looked at it a year later after taking a year of 4,000 IUs a day.
02:02:27.000 But that was enough.
02:02:28.000 I think generally speaking, people that are supplementing between 2,000 and 4,000 IUs generally tend to have adequate levels if they're not severely, severely deficient to start with.
02:02:40.000 If you're severely, severely deficient, it can take longer to get up to an adequate status.
02:02:45.000 Trevor Burrus What are the other things that Offit said that you didn't think were accurate or were problematic?
02:02:52.000 Yeah, so he also said that the data is clear and consistent that supplemental vitamins don't do anything.
02:03:00.000 There's no positive benefit from them.
02:03:02.000 That's what he said, no positive benefit.
02:03:04.000 And like I said, to his credit, I haven't read his book, so maybe he goes into some specifics that I'm not aware of.
02:03:11.000 However, to say that supplemental vitamins have no benefit is like, really?
02:03:17.000 You know, I mean, they've even done randomized controlled trials showing that Omega-3 fatty acid supplementation lowers all-cause mortality.
02:03:30.000 He actually refers to omega-3 fatty acids as an antioxidant, at least in that podcast he did.
02:03:36.000 So, you know, that's one thing.
02:03:38.000 Vitamin D supplements, people that have supplemented with vitamin D, 1,500 IUs a day.
02:03:45.000 I don't remember how long they did that for, but they had a 17, it was many years, there was a 17% decrease in cancer levels.
02:03:53.000 There was a 30% decrease in cancer mortality and a 40% decrease in cancers of the digestive system, including colon cancer.
02:04:04.000 So that's one for vitamin D. What's another one?
02:04:08.000 There was another study where they looked at women that took multivitamin.
02:04:13.000 But this was not a controlled trial.
02:04:16.000 They did a questionnaire and found out How frequently women took multivitamins and how many times a day or how many days a week they took them.
02:04:25.000 And what they found is that the ones that took vitamins on a daily basis had the longest telomeres, the measured telomere length.
02:04:32.000 So that's another one.
02:04:34.000 Magnesium.
02:04:34.000 So we're talking about, you know, taking supplemental vitamins helps you fill some of those nutritional gaps that you're not getting from your diet.
02:04:43.000 And the reality is that we're not getting a lot of those vitamins and minerals from our diet.
02:04:48.000 We talked about this a little bit last time.
02:04:49.000 Is it possible to eat a completely healthy diet and get everything you need, or do you need to supplement?
02:04:56.000 I mean, is it possible?
02:04:57.000 That's a good question.
02:04:59.000 I don't know.
02:05:00.000 I mean...
02:05:01.000 Like things like vitamin D. What would you have to do?
02:05:03.000 I mean, I know it's in milk.
02:05:04.000 You'd have...
02:05:05.000 Well, yeah.
02:05:06.000 For vitamin D, you'd have to really be living in a place that was exposed to the UVB during winter and summer and...
02:05:14.000 And you'd have to be out in the sun for 15 minutes, you know, because getting it from fish, well, maybe fish has a good bit of it, but you'd have to eat fish every day.
02:05:23.000 And also to get the omega-3s, you'd have to eat fish, like, every day.
02:05:27.000 The omega-3 fatty acids are another big one.
02:05:29.000 You'd have to eat quite a bit of fish, right?
02:05:31.000 Certain fish, like salmon.
02:05:32.000 Salmon, like fatty fish, right, exactly.
02:05:34.000 You'd have to eat like fatty fish.
02:05:36.000 So I think it would be really difficult.
02:05:39.000 Like I personally, I agree with Offit and that goofball Dunning in some instances where, you know, you should try to get all your micronutrients, much as you can from your diet.
02:05:54.000 I agree.
02:05:54.000 Yeah.
02:05:55.000 Case in point, I do my smoothie.
02:05:58.000 I definitely try to eat my greens and healthy meats and fish.
02:06:02.000 I really like fish.
02:06:03.000 But I do supplement.
02:06:05.000 I take omega-3 fatty acids.
02:06:07.000 I take vitamin D. I take a multivitamin, which has my selenium and some of my trace elements, my iodine.
02:06:14.000 And what else do I take?
02:06:16.000 I also take a B-complex, even though most people don't have low levels of the B vitamins due to fortification and stuff now.
02:06:25.000 I actually take a B-complex because it's really kind of interesting, but our lab has shown that, well, it's partly shown this, that as we age, I talked about how your lipid membranes get more rigid.
02:06:41.000 So this includes your mitochondrial membranes.
02:06:44.000 They get more stiff.
02:06:45.000 And over time, what happens is metabolites and stuff can't get transported as easy.
02:06:51.000 And also what happens is these proteins, they bind cofactors.
02:06:55.000 Like B vitamins are really important for a lot of proteins in the mitochondria that are necessary for metabolism to generate ATP. And these proteins require B vitamins.
02:07:04.000 And a lot of them are embedded in the membrane.
02:07:06.000 So when the membrane gets stiff, The protein binding constant changes to that B vitamin.
02:07:11.000 And it's been shown that you can overcome that, meaning you actually can overcome that messing up that binding constant because it screws up the structure of the protein by increasing the level of B vitamins.
02:07:22.000 So what level do you recommend?
02:07:25.000 What's the RDA and what do you think should it be?
02:07:29.000 For B vitamins, you know, I don't...
02:07:31.000 There's no telling what it should be.
02:07:33.000 There's just no empirical data to show how much more you would need to overcome that.
02:07:38.000 How much do you take?
02:07:39.000 I have a B complex, and I just can't recall off the top of my head what all the...
02:07:43.000 Because there's so many of the B vitamins.
02:07:46.000 Do you know what the name of your B complex is that you take?
02:07:49.000 Right now, I have one from Vitacost, but I've been switching over to Swanson brand because I... Spell that, Swanson?
02:07:58.000 S-W-A-N-S-O-N. They're pretty reliable.
02:08:02.000 They've been around for a really long time.
02:08:05.000 They generally have some reliable supplements.
02:08:08.000 For Omega-3, I like Nordic Naturals.
02:08:11.000 They're really good.
02:08:12.000 And Nordic Naturals, that's a fish base.
02:08:16.000 Fish oil.
02:08:16.000 So there's some oils.
02:08:19.000 Here's the Swanson.
02:08:20.000 It has 25 milligrams of riboflavin, which is 1,471% of the USRDA. Thiamine, which is B1,
02:08:36.000 it has 25 milligrams, which is 1,667% of the USRDA. Vitamin C, it has it as well.
02:08:44.000 In the B-complex, it has vitamin C, which is interesting.
02:08:46.000 Yeah, that's interesting.
02:08:47.000 833% of the US RDA. And the other big one, vitamin B6 is 1,250%, and vitamin B12, 2,083% of US RDA. That's interesting.
02:09:02.000 I've always found that interesting when you look at some vitamins, you look at multivitamins, and you know what the RDA is, and you see their percentages fucking off the charts.
02:09:10.000 Yeah.
02:09:10.000 They have 2,000% of the USRDA of B12. Yeah.
02:09:15.000 You know, that's a lot.
02:09:15.000 They're just saying the USRDA is a knucklehead.
02:09:17.000 I mean, that's what they're saying in their company.
02:09:19.000 They're saying, look, fuck them.
02:09:21.000 In the case of the B vitamins, you know, like I said, most people aren't deficient in them, and they haven't really shown any toxicity in taking too much of these B vitamins, and they are water-soluble, so you end up peeing them a lot.
02:09:36.000 I personally...
02:09:38.000 I'm taking them just because I've seen some of this data where it shows that some of these proteins that are, when your lipid bilayer is kind of more rigid and gets screwed up over time, and also when your oxidation does that or eating rancid fat, things like that, changes some of the structure of those membrane proteins that require B vitamins.
02:09:57.000 And like I said, I don't know how much more you need.
02:09:59.000 It'd be cool to do a study to figure that out.
02:10:02.000 But it's not a dangerous one because they're water-soluble.
02:10:05.000 I haven't seen any data that shows it's a dangerous one, for one, because they are water-soluble and you pee them out.
02:10:10.000 What are the fat-soluble ones that we should be careful about overdosing?
02:10:14.000 The alpha-tocopherol is one.
02:10:15.000 Which is E. Right.
02:10:17.000 Like I said, the whole interplay between the gamma and alpha is a...
02:10:22.000 So gamma-tocopherol, alpha-tocopherol, all the E's, those are fat-soluble.
02:10:26.000 Right.
02:10:26.000 E. Also...
02:10:27.000 So those you should be careful.
02:10:29.000 Vitamin D, you can take too much.
02:10:32.000 If you take...
02:10:34.000 The toxicity levels that I've seen have been shown at like 10,000 IUs a day for some time.
02:10:42.000 Anything over that, and actually I think it even is quite higher than that, but that's the limit of toxicity.
02:10:48.000 What about omega-3s and omega-3s in plant-based form versus in fish form?
02:10:55.000 Great question.
02:10:56.000 So if you look at the...
02:10:58.000 So omega-3s are three.
02:11:00.000 There's EPA, there's DHA, and ALA. So the major plant form, like flaxseed oil or flaxseed, walnuts, for example, have ALA, okay?
02:11:14.000 And they don't have EPA or DHA. Now, you can convert a very small percentage of ALA into the EPA, but it's like 5% of it.
02:11:26.000 It's very inefficient conversion.
02:11:29.000 And women may be able to do a little bit better of a conversion.
02:11:32.000 I can't recall off the top of my head what their number was, but the point is that if your only source of omega-3 is flax or walnuts, you're not getting your DHA and EPA. You hear that, vegans?
02:11:46.000 Yeah, the vegans, if you're a vegan, really, I just, microalgae oil, I mean the phytoplankton, or essentially are what making these omega-3s, the fish eat the phytoplankton, it gets concentrated in the fat.
02:12:00.000 Microalgae oil.
02:12:01.000 I recommend for people that are vegetarian, vegan.
02:12:04.000 Microalgae oil.
02:12:05.000 But when you're eating microalgae oil, what totally constitutes vegan?
02:12:11.000 Is there any sort of animal protein in microalgae oil?
02:12:14.000 Well, they're phytoplankton.
02:12:16.000 So if you're vegan based off of philosophy where you don't want to eat any type of creature...
02:12:22.000 Phytoplankton is kind of a creature.
02:12:24.000 It is.
02:12:24.000 It's kind of a creature.
02:12:28.000 So I guess that could be a problem.
02:12:30.000 But if you're a vegetarian or vegan for health purposes and there's not like a philosophical component where you have a problem with eating these phytoplankton, then...
02:12:42.000 Well, I mean, vegans shouldn't avoid...
02:12:45.000 I mean, there's certain probiotics that are...
02:12:47.000 I mean, that's a creature, too.
02:12:49.000 True.
02:12:50.000 Bacteria, yeah.
02:12:53.000 That's a good point.
02:12:54.000 I don't know.
02:12:55.000 They move.
02:12:55.000 I mean, they're active.
02:12:57.000 They are active.
02:12:58.000 They are absolutely active.
02:12:59.000 Just because you can't see them.
02:13:00.000 I mean, you're basically eating little tiny turtles or something.
02:13:03.000 You know?
02:13:04.000 I mean, whatever.
02:13:05.000 A little moving thing.
02:13:07.000 Right.
02:13:07.000 You know, I don't know what the philosophy...
02:13:10.000 Because I don't have a lot of vegan friends to really know.
02:13:13.000 Cut those people out of your life.
02:13:14.000 It's very important.
02:13:15.000 I don't have anything against them.
02:13:16.000 I don't either, but I like fucking with them.
02:13:20.000 But the DHA and EPA are really important.
02:13:23.000 They're really, really important.
02:13:25.000 And so you asked, can you take too much?
02:13:27.000 I mean, for one, EPA, it's got a very potent anti-inflammatory effect, which is important for a variety of different mechanisms.
02:13:38.000 Chronic inflammation over time can lead to a lot of age-related diseases.
02:13:42.000 And DHA, as we, I think, even discussed last time, it's a really important component of your cell membranes, particularly in the brain, like 40% of it.
02:13:51.000 So, how much?
02:13:51.000 I take a lot of fish oil.
02:13:53.000 I take a lot.
02:13:53.000 I take a lot, too.
02:13:54.000 How much do you take a day?
02:13:55.000 So, well, it depends.
02:13:56.000 So you have to look, okay, you got your fish oil container, and on the front it says, like, 1,000 milligrams, or mine says 2,120 or something like that.
02:14:05.000 And then you turn around the back and you look at the breakdown.
02:14:09.000 Okay, how much EPA? How much DHA? And then there's other fish oils mixed.
02:14:13.000 So on my container, it says like 2,100 and something.
02:14:18.000 And I turn around the back...
02:14:20.000 It's got 800 milligrams of EPA and 600 milligrams of DHA. And then all the rest is just fish oil stuff.
02:14:27.000 So I actually calculate how much I take based on those components, the EPA and DHA, because that's important.
02:14:33.000 That's what's important to me.
02:14:35.000 So I take about six pills of those a day.
02:14:38.000 And I guess a serving size is two.
02:14:42.000 Yeah.
02:14:43.000 I take a little bit more than that.
02:14:44.000 I take ten.
02:14:46.000 10 pills?
02:14:47.000 Yeah.
02:14:47.000 Yeah, okay.
02:14:48.000 And you're...
02:14:48.000 That's pretty cool.
02:14:49.000 I've done that.
02:14:49.000 I mean, I've done that in the past.
02:14:53.000 It has a big impact on joint health.
02:14:56.000 Yeah.
02:14:56.000 It has a big impact for grapplers, for jiu-jitsu people.
02:15:00.000 We're always getting sore knees and sore elbows.
02:15:03.000 It's a big issue.
02:15:04.000 And even sore backs.
02:15:06.000 And it has a huge impact on that.
02:15:08.000 No.
02:15:08.000 The anti-inflammatory reaction.
02:15:10.000 Absolutely.
02:15:10.000 Absolutely.
02:15:11.000 What is the anti-inflammatory, what is the actual mechanism, the anti-inflammatory mechanism involved in fish oil?
02:15:16.000 So the EPA is the major part.
02:15:20.000 So you can actually buy EPA, like just, you know, there's companies that'll sell it.
02:15:24.000 If you're really just looking at the anti-inflammatory part of the fish oil, you can buy EPA. It's a little more expensive.
02:15:30.000 But what it does is it inhibits that whole arachnidonic acid pathway, which produces prostaglandins.
02:15:38.000 So it's like upstream where it's inhibiting the production of arachnidonic acid and then prostaglandins, which...
02:15:44.000 Activate COX. You've got this whole cascade of inflammation going on.
02:15:49.000 It plays a major role in that.
02:15:50.000 There's probably other mechanisms that I haven't even read about.
02:15:54.000 Other things going on as well that I'm not even sure.
02:15:59.000 Feedback mechanisms, stuff like that.
02:16:00.000 But that's the major way that EPA does.
02:16:03.000 And they've even shown that taking two grams of EPA a day...
02:16:08.000 Can lower, can like reduce your C-reactive protein levels.
02:16:11.000 Oh gosh, I don't remember the exact amount by how much it was, but it was pretty significant where it's like it really, you can measure it, lowers inflammation, like systemic inflammation.
02:16:21.000 How many thousand milligrams are in a gram?
02:16:24.000 You just said it.
02:16:25.000 One.
02:16:25.000 Thousand milligrams are in one gram.
02:16:27.000 So two thousand milligrams is two grams.
02:16:29.000 Yeah.
02:16:30.000 Why don't they just call it a gram?
02:16:31.000 I don't know.
02:16:31.000 Why do they have to call it a milligram?
02:16:33.000 I usually call it a gram.
02:16:34.000 It gets to a thousand.
02:16:35.000 Yeah.
02:16:35.000 It's like, it's much easier.
02:16:36.000 Yeah.
02:16:37.000 It's great.
02:16:37.000 Why are you confusing me?
02:16:38.000 Maybe because people aren't aware of the whole metric system and stuff.
02:16:43.000 Yeah.
02:16:43.000 So if they see two grams, you're like, oh, that's nothing.
02:16:46.000 Right.
02:16:47.000 That's just two.
02:16:48.000 Well, people get confused because we go ounces all the time with so many different things.
02:16:52.000 That is confusing.
02:16:53.000 I don't understand why we use the metric system in some cases.
02:16:57.000 In some cases, we don't at all.
02:16:58.000 Right.
02:16:59.000 Like liters.
02:17:00.000 Oh, it's a liter.
02:17:01.000 Well, how many quarts is in there?
02:17:02.000 Oh, fuck.
02:17:03.000 I don't know.
02:17:03.000 Yeah.
02:17:04.000 Why is there a quart in a liter?
02:17:06.000 What are you doing to me here?
02:17:07.000 Well, in the lab, we do everything milliliter, liter.
02:17:10.000 I mean, so...
02:17:10.000 Gallons when you go to the gas station.
02:17:12.000 I don't even...
02:17:12.000 Yeah.
02:17:13.000 I don't even...
02:17:13.000 I always have to Google how many...
02:17:15.000 Inches.
02:17:16.000 Well, try fucking...
02:17:17.000 I'm 90 centimeters.
02:17:19.000 What the fuck is 90 centimeters?
02:17:20.000 How tall is that?
02:17:21.000 I don't even know.
02:17:23.000 You know what I mean?
02:17:23.000 If someone tried to guess someone's height in centimeters.
02:17:26.000 Yeah.
02:17:27.000 So is your fish oil that you take, is it both EPA and DHA? That's a good question.
02:17:32.000 I take this Carlson's.
02:17:34.000 Carlson's, I've taken that before.
02:17:35.000 Do you take the lemon flavored one in the bottle or do you take them in pills?
02:17:38.000 I take both.
02:17:39.000 I bring the pills with me when I go on the road.
02:17:41.000 I take the lemon in the bottle at home.
02:17:42.000 Ah, okay.
02:17:43.000 Yeah, there is something to be aware of with the omega-3 fatty acids and that's because they're polyunsaturated fatty acids.
02:17:50.000 They're very prone to oxidation.
02:17:52.000 So keeping them at four degree, well, keeping them in the fridge, sorry, lowers that oxidation process and also just Smelling it, you know, take a sniff of it and make sure it's not rancid smelling when you're taking it because that's the one thing with the omega-3 fatty acids.
02:18:10.000 I mean, like I said, I take a lot of omega-3 fatty acids and I think they're really important, but I think it's important to be aware that they can go rancid and if they go rancid, consuming them can be not as good.
02:18:20.000 Yeah, and when you leave them in the refrigerator, how long are they good for when you crack open that bottle?
02:18:25.000 I've always given it a two-week window.
02:18:27.000 If I don't drink it in two weeks, I throw it out.
02:18:30.000 I don't use the bottle anymore, but the bottle is more open to oxygen, so that is one thing to be aware of with the bottle.
02:18:39.000 You just go with the pills?
02:18:40.000 I do.
02:18:41.000 I think that was part of the reason why I switched to it, and I think I got really sick of that lemon.
02:18:46.000 Yeah, it gets kind of funky.
02:18:48.000 It gets kind of much, yeah.
02:18:49.000 It's easier to just not taste anything and you swallow the pills, but then you're dealing with the gelatin as well.
02:18:54.000 Right.
02:18:55.000 Gelatin's not bad for you.
02:18:57.000 I haven't convinced myself that it's doing my charm, but who knows?
02:19:00.000 Maybe I haven't dug deep enough.
02:19:02.000 What about krill oil?
02:19:03.000 How do you feel about krill oil?
02:19:04.000 I haven't really done much reading on the krill.
02:19:08.000 That has vitamin A as well.
02:19:10.000 Or that's cod.
02:19:11.000 I'm conflating the cod.
02:19:13.000 Cod liver oil was the one that they always gave us when we were kids and everybody was like, get that away from me.
02:19:18.000 I don't know if I've ever tried it, like the taste.
02:19:20.000 I think I've had a pill and I couldn't really tell.
02:19:22.000 You know what?
02:19:22.000 I actually think I have krill oil here.
02:19:23.000 Hold on a second.
02:19:24.000 Let me pull this out.
02:19:28.000 Yeah, but taking the Omega-3 and just popping it open every once in a while and smelling it is a good idea.
02:19:34.000 I recommend doing that because you can smell what rancid fat smells like.
02:19:38.000 So that's what I like to do.
02:19:40.000 Every once in a while, I'll just grab my Omega-3 pill out of the fridge and take some scissors, cut it open, and smell it.
02:19:46.000 And if it doesn't smell rancid, it's still good.
02:19:48.000 Yeah, I've got some krill oil here.
02:19:50.000 Tell me about that.
02:19:53.000 Is...
02:19:56.000 Well, krill oil, I don't know what's supposed to be the benefit of krill oil over fish oil.
02:20:01.000 It doesn't have a lot of DHA or EPA in it.
02:20:05.000 No?
02:20:05.000 I mean, it says 75 milligrams of DHA and 130 milligrams of EPA, and that's two soft gel servings.
02:20:13.000 So you think that fish oil is probably a better choice than krill oil?
02:20:19.000 Well, I don't know if there's also one gram of krill oil.
02:20:23.000 So it says one gram of krill oil.
02:20:25.000 Maybe there's something in there I'm not aware of because I really – I just haven't done a lot of research on it.
02:20:29.000 But I'm looking at the DHA and EPA specifically.
02:20:32.000 If you're taking this to get DHA and EPA, I would say this is – Not a very high amount.
02:20:39.000 So you think that if there is something good about krill oil, you should probably...
02:20:45.000 Why is there these things?
02:20:47.000 Krill oil radically better than fish oil.
02:20:50.000 Hmm.
02:20:52.000 Blood sugar regulator?
02:20:53.000 I don't know anything about it, unfortunately.
02:20:55.000 Maybe there's some other reasons.
02:20:57.000 Maybe there's something else.
02:20:58.000 Yeah, like I said, I'm completely ignorant on that.
02:21:00.000 It says here on this website, krill oil actually influences your metabolism and genes to improve.
02:21:06.000 The reference study found that although both fish oil and krill oil contain omega-3s, they differ greatly in how...
02:21:31.000 So DHA does do those things.
02:21:32.000 So when they're saying fish oil...
02:21:34.000 So what are they talking?
02:21:35.000 They're talking shit.
02:21:36.000 Well, I'm not sure...
02:21:37.000 I'm not sure...
02:21:38.000 I'm not sure I'm following.
02:21:40.000 I'm not either.
02:22:08.000 Much like vitamin D does.
02:22:10.000 And DHA and EPA do this.
02:22:12.000 So DHA can activate genes.
02:22:15.000 So you know...
02:22:16.000 If they're talking about...
02:22:16.000 And it's been shown to activate mitochondrial metabolism genes.
02:22:19.000 So when they say krill oil can...
02:22:21.000 Does, and fish oil does not.
02:22:23.000 They're just incorrect.
02:22:23.000 It doesn't make any sense to me.
02:22:24.000 You have to be specific.
02:22:26.000 What is it you're talking...
02:22:26.000 Are you talking about DHA? Because they're in...
02:22:28.000 You know...
02:22:29.000 What else is there?
02:22:30.000 Yeah.
02:22:31.000 This is an article from Mercola.
02:22:32.000 Is that a good website?
02:22:34.000 You know, Mercola is...
02:22:36.000 Hit or miss.
02:22:38.000 I think he does have a lot of good...
02:22:39.000 Every once in a while, there's something...
02:22:42.000 It's both.
02:22:43.000 I haven't spent a lot of time reading his stuff, but I do think he does have some good information.
02:22:52.000 So it doesn't sound like krill oil is bad, but it does seem like fish oil is probably more beneficial.
02:22:59.000 Well, there's other things in here too.
02:23:01.000 It's what's in it.
02:23:02.000 The point is, you have to be specific.
02:23:04.000 If you're saying just krill oil, well, you're talking about other things in the krill oil?
02:23:08.000 Because if we're talking about gene activation, DPA and DHA is doing that.
02:23:14.000 DHA is activating genes.
02:23:16.000 That's what it's doing, in addition to what it's doing for your lipid membranes.
02:23:20.000 This is so confusing after reading what you said, because it's saying some studies have shown that krill oil may be 48 times more potent than fish oil.
02:23:28.000 It means you'll need far less of it than fish oil.
02:23:31.000 It was confirmed by a 2011 study.
02:23:33.000 48 times more potent in what sense, though?
02:23:35.000 Yeah.
02:23:36.000 What are we talking about in the krill oil?
02:23:38.000 I just don't understand.
02:23:39.000 I don't either.
02:23:40.000 That's the problem.
02:23:41.000 And people have mortgages.
02:23:43.000 They have jobs.
02:23:44.000 They have children.
02:23:45.000 They have dogs to feed.
02:23:46.000 They have a plant to water.
02:23:48.000 They don't have fucking time to get into all this stuff.
02:23:50.000 You have to...
02:23:51.000 You know, I feel bad for people.
02:23:53.000 I mean, it's hard enough for me.
02:23:54.000 But you're a person.
02:23:55.000 What are you talking about?
02:23:56.000 I mean, no, it's because it's craziness.
02:23:59.000 It's craziness.
02:24:00.000 And the reality is understanding mechanism, like when I'm saying mechanism, I'm talking about DHA can activate promoters in certain genes to increase the expression of mitochondrial metabolism genes.
02:24:12.000 That's been shown.
02:24:12.000 And so when you say creole oil can do that and fish oil can't, that makes no sense to me.
02:24:20.000 Right.
02:24:33.000 Yeah, I think this is something that's going to have to be really studied in length.
02:24:40.000 And I would love to see you dive into all these claims.
02:24:44.000 But there's quite a few claims online about the benefits of krill oil over fish oil.
02:24:49.000 But one of the things I'm saying, krill oil contains acetax...
02:24:55.000 Ooh, boy.
02:24:56.000 Try this one.
02:24:57.000 A-S-T-A-X-A-N-T-H-I-N. Say it again?
02:25:04.000 A-S-T-A-X-A-N-T-H-I-N. Yeah, that's a mouthful.
02:25:11.000 You're not familiar with it.
02:25:15.000 Does that make sense?
02:25:26.000 No.
02:25:27.000 Does that sound like malarkey?
02:25:28.000 No.
02:25:30.000 Possibly.
02:25:31.000 It doesn't make sense in that.
02:25:33.000 Yeah.
02:25:33.000 God, that really is the issue, isn't it?
02:25:36.000 There's just so much to try to sift through, find out how to separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were.
02:25:44.000 With the DHA and EPA, the really important thing, in my opinion, is getting it, getting enough of it, taking a good bit of DHA and EPA, because most people aren't getting any of it.
02:25:57.000 And all this other stuff, I'm just not sure how significant it is.
02:26:04.000 Maybe it does increase bioavailability a little bit.
02:26:07.000 I don't know if it really makes a big difference.
02:26:11.000 So for the folks that are getting their omega-3s just completely from a plant source, What can they do, if anything, to try to...
02:26:23.000 I really think the microalgae oil is the best.
02:26:25.000 I mean, I would recommend taking the fish oil, but I guess they won't do that.
02:26:30.000 In some cases, vegetarians won't do that.
02:26:33.000 So the microalgae oil is the next best thing, in my opinion.
02:26:39.000 Like I said, I don't really know much about the krill oil, but I do know that DHA is very important, as is EPA, for a variety of different reasons.
02:26:49.000 Well, I'm going to send you some of these studies on the krill oil, unless you get bored reading it and you can't do it.
02:26:58.000 It seems like there's just such a...
02:27:02.000 Boy, it's such a mess.
02:27:03.000 There's so many different supplements.
02:27:06.000 Just going into all the contradictory arguments, the back and forth about all these different ones, it can be incredibly taxing.
02:27:14.000 I mean, your website is a great resource for this.
02:27:17.000 If people want to go to foundmyfitness.com and try to figure out what you've already sort of described and you've already explained, but how does a person start?
02:27:28.000 I think...
02:27:28.000 A really good resource that I like is the Linus Pauling Institute.
02:27:34.000 So if you go to Linus Pauling Institute, they are pretty good about writing a very...
02:27:40.000 It's a scientific research institute that's associated with Oregon Health University or Oregon State Health University, something like that.
02:27:48.000 But they do a very balanced review on a variety of different supplemental vitamins and minerals and essential fatty acids.
02:27:59.000 They give you both sides.
02:28:01.000 Now, if they go into the krill, sometimes they'll go into things like that.
02:28:05.000 Generally speaking, I really like the Linus Pauling Institute.
02:28:09.000 It's a good resource.
02:28:12.000 Are there places where someone can go where they can say you're not sure what you need?
02:28:20.000 We were talking about various levels of vitamins and getting them tested.
02:28:24.000 Is there a standard place where you could go?
02:28:28.000 Someone who lives in the middle of nowhere can find a place and get their blood tested.
02:28:33.000 I think one of the companies that I am familiar with is Wellness FX. And I have no association with them other than I did a couple of guest blog posts for them.
02:28:44.000 Where I, for free, wrote about vitamin D and magnesium.
02:28:48.000 And they actually, I think they're pretty much in almost every state now, where you can go onto their website and they have a variety of different assays they'll do.
02:28:57.000 Will they measure different vitamins and minerals?
02:28:59.000 They'll have omega-3 fatty acids.
02:29:01.000 They'll measure different things, C-reactive protein.
02:29:03.000 And you can go to any – enter your address and go to like a lab corp around nearest by or whatever and get your blood drawn.
02:29:11.000 And then they'll give you the data within a couple of days.
02:29:14.000 They'll help you interpret it.
02:29:15.000 They have a variety of different positions and nutritional requirements.
02:29:19.000 People that can help you interpret what your blood results mean.
02:29:23.000 So, like, I used it myself.
02:29:24.000 We also got a test for my mother-in-law to use, and she lives in Mississippi.
02:29:28.000 So, you know, and it's pretty much, I think it's pretty much everywhere now.
02:29:32.000 So I really like them.
02:29:34.000 And obviously you can go to your physician, your primary health care provider, but they may not measure everything that you want, like omega-3.
02:29:41.000 And they also might give you some of that, all you need to do is eat a balanced diet.
02:29:46.000 Right.
02:29:46.000 Yeah.
02:29:47.000 How many times have I heard that from a physician who looked like shit?
02:29:51.000 Overweight physician, I mean...
02:29:53.000 Sloppy, loose skin all around his face.
02:29:56.000 Like, dude, you're melting.
02:29:57.000 You're telling me what to do?
02:29:58.000 Yeah.
02:30:00.000 But the wellness effects is pretty cool.
02:30:03.000 I really like them.
02:30:04.000 But the nutrition thing, I think it's making its way into medicine, and that's part of the reason why people like Offit, who is an MD... These people, they've been trained very differently.
02:30:15.000 They haven't been trained in understanding preventative medicine, understanding how these complex micronutrients are interacting with different proteins in our body and how that's important to prevent different diseases.
02:30:27.000 So they're not thinking about it from the same frame of mind as people like me that are PhD researchers or nutritionists and there's a variety of other I guess naturopathic doctors maybe have more.
02:30:41.000 There's a whole variety of different...
02:30:43.000 Naturopathic gets lumped into homeopathic sometimes accidentally.
02:30:46.000 They're different, yeah.
02:30:47.000 Yeah, completely different.
02:30:48.000 I've been guilty of it myself.
02:30:50.000 Yeah, I think I have as well.
02:30:51.000 I confuse them in a way where just anything homeopathic I think of as horseshit.
02:30:57.000 Isn't homeopathic like that crazy thing where they like dilute things to like...
02:31:03.000 Crazy amounts where you can't even, there's like no active compound.
02:31:07.000 If you Google it or look at the Wikipedia, I recently found homeopathic.
02:31:15.000 They have their own measuring system too, I think.
02:31:18.000 They'll take a compound and they'll dilute it like a million fold.
02:31:24.000 And it's like to the point where there's like no biological activity and they give it to people.
02:31:28.000 I'm pretty sure that's homeopathy.
02:31:31.000 I didn't realize that until recently.
02:31:33.000 Yeah.
02:31:33.000 Repeatedly diluting a chosen substance in alcohol or distilled water followed by forceful striking on an elastic body.
02:31:41.000 What?
02:31:42.000 Dilution usually contains, continues well past the point where no molecules of the original substance remain.
02:31:48.000 Is that, so okay, let me tell the story.
02:31:50.000 So I recently had my wisdom teeth removed.
02:31:53.000 And my oral surgeon gave me this case of pills that was Arnica.
02:32:01.000 Yeah, nonsense.
02:32:02.000 Well, no, it was homeopathic, which really makes it nonsense.
02:32:07.000 There is some antimicrobial activity and things like that in Arnica.
02:32:10.000 The real Arnica plant.
02:32:12.000 But the homeopathic Arnica is like sugar.
02:32:14.000 It's water.
02:32:15.000 It's water, literally.
02:32:16.000 But I didn't know it's homeopathic at first.
02:32:18.000 I just thought, oh yeah, it's just Arnica.
02:32:20.000 And it wasn't until my husband looked at it and he's like, do you realize this is homeopathic?
02:32:25.000 I was like, what's that?
02:32:27.000 I knew homeopathic was kind of crazy.
02:32:29.000 And we looked it up and it was mind-blowing.
02:32:32.000 I couldn't believe it.
02:32:34.000 I don't even think he knows.
02:32:35.000 I think he probably made the same mistake I did where I just thought it was just Arnica.
02:32:39.000 This is for anybody defending homeopathy.
02:32:42.000 This is on Wikipedia.
02:32:43.000 This is all with references.
02:32:45.000 Lacks biological plausibility and the axioms of homeopathy have been refuted for some time.
02:32:51.000 The postulated mechanisms of action of homeopathic remedies are both scientifically implausible and not physically possible.
02:32:58.000 There you go.
02:33:00.000 Clinical trials produce positive results.
02:33:03.000 Hmm.
02:33:03.000 Systematic reviews reveal that this is because of chance, flawed research methods, and reporting bias, which is pretty common.
02:33:10.000 So, there you have it.
02:33:12.000 Homeopathy, really.
02:33:13.000 Yeah.
02:33:13.000 I mean, anytime someone says homeopathy, they usually are wearing crystals, and they know someone who's a channeler.
02:33:20.000 Right, right.
02:33:21.000 So, getting back to my wisdom teeth, it's kind of a cool topic.
02:33:25.000 I had to get them removed because they were impacted and causing...
02:33:29.000 Problems and pain and such.
02:33:30.000 So I did some research.
02:33:32.000 I was like, God, if I haven't kept my teeth removed, there's got to be some kind of benefit from it.
02:33:36.000 And I found that our wisdom teeth have something called dental pulp stem cells in them.
02:33:41.000 And these dental pulp stem cells...
02:33:43.000 So this stem cell research is like a whole...
02:33:45.000 I'm really excited about the stem cell research field and where we're going with that.
02:33:49.000 But anyways, our wisdom teeth have dental pulp stem cells in them that can actually form other...
02:33:57.000 Yeah.
02:34:03.000 Yeah.
02:34:07.000 Yeah.
02:34:22.000 Yeah.
02:34:53.000 So it's actually really cool because you can use this if you have...
02:34:57.000 Damaged cartilage, bone, possibly Parkinson's disease where you need to replace damaged motor neurons.
02:35:04.000 So I thought that was pretty cool.
02:35:08.000 It's like a benefit because getting your wisdom teeth removed is not fun at all.
02:35:11.000 Yeah, that is fascinating though.
02:35:13.000 Primary teeth in children also.
02:35:15.000 So in the children's teeth, they're losing their primary teeth and you just throw the teeth away.
02:35:19.000 Mm-hmm.
02:35:22.000 Wow.
02:35:44.000 Yeah.
02:35:45.000 My daughter's about to lose her first tooth.
02:35:48.000 So that's perfect.
02:35:49.000 Yeah.
02:35:49.000 The company that I went with, I can give it to you.
02:35:53.000 I actually talked to their cell biologist.
02:35:55.000 I was on the phone because I read through all the procedures.
02:35:59.000 Yeah.
02:36:24.000 Like skin cells that we slough off like every day and they can add four different transcription factors like four different genes that they can add by like a viral and add virus to them and they can reprogram them to become these pluripotent stem cells in your body meaning they can form any type of Wow.
02:37:08.000 Yeah, so was that a recent study?
02:37:11.000 Yeah, it was the recent findings.
02:37:15.000 Because I've seen other studies that were not super recent, but what they did was they took like bone marrow cells, they did a bone marrow transplant and took, which obviously bone marrow forms are blood cells, from young mice and transplanted them to old mice and the mice lived longer.
02:37:30.000 Yeah, this is recent.
02:37:32.000 It's from March 6th, or May 6th, rather.
02:37:35.000 They actually took an injection of young blood.
02:37:39.000 So they took the blood of young mice, they injected it into old mice, and they had tremendous benefits, including regenerating different cells,
02:37:55.000 brain cells, tissue cells.
02:37:57.000 Oh, really?
02:37:58.000 Brain cells as well?
02:37:59.000 Yeah.
02:37:59.000 I mean, it makes sense that you'd regenerate different blood populations because you have stem cells in the blood and stuff that are...
02:38:08.000 It improved the performance of elderly mice in memory and learning tasks.
02:38:14.000 Wow, that's pretty cool.
02:38:17.000 Structural, molecular.
02:38:18.000 Will you send me that paper?
02:38:20.000 Yeah, absolutely.
02:38:21.000 Yeah, that's awesome.
02:38:22.000 Yeah.
02:38:22.000 I mean, this is stuff I'm really excited about now is this, you know, the stem cell research and reprogramming, you know, where the epigenetics is a really cool part where you can reprogram your cells to basically be younger.
02:38:37.000 You know, they're finding now that, so epigenetics, I think we talked about this a bit last time, It refers to changes in gene expression.
02:38:46.000 And, you know, things like methyl groups and acetylation groups will sit on top of your DNA and turn genes on and off.
02:38:51.000 But now what they're finding is they're trying to look at patterns of methylation, like, in your DNA. So they've already solved the Human Genome Project where they know genes, and now they're trying to look at the methylome, the human methylome.
02:39:05.000 And they've been able to, over the past, you know, few years, they've been able to identify that there's patterns of methylation in your genes I think?
02:39:33.000 I think that's pretty freaking amazing.
02:39:53.000 It is amazing.
02:39:57.000 I'm on this kick, this epigenetics kick, where they've been able to now also look at the cancer cells.
02:40:06.000 Like in a person, they'll take a tissue, a tumor sample, and then a tissue from the same person, another non-tumor tissue, and they'll look at the methylation pattern and they'll see that the cancer or the tumor tissue ages by like 40% based on the methylation pattern.
02:40:20.000 Wow.
02:40:21.000 Yeah, so it's like the cancer cells aging rapidly.
02:40:23.000 So what's really interesting is now they're looking at what genes these methylation patterns are happening around, and they're finding it's like DNA repair, mitochondrial metabolism, antioxidant genes, like everything we've been talking about in this whole podcast, things that affect DNA damage and metabolism,
02:40:39.000 all these things.
02:40:40.000 Methylation patterns are happening clustered around these genes.
02:40:45.000 And the cool thing about it, to me, is that if we're figuring this out, then we can figure out how to reprogram our cells to be young and extend lifespan.
02:40:53.000 And I really think that we're getting close to doing this.
02:40:56.000 So, I mean, if you think about, I'll give you an example, like stem cells.
02:41:00.000 Stem cells also have methylation patterns that are very distinct to stem cells.
02:41:05.000 And there are certain genes that are...
02:41:07.000 When a gene is methylated, it's not being expressed.
02:41:10.000 There are certain genes that are not expressed in stem cells for a reason because when they get expressed, they cause the cell to stop dividing.
02:41:17.000 And you don't want your stem cell to stop dividing because stem cells are what's repopulating the tissue.
02:41:22.000 Okay?
02:41:23.000 And they found that, like, a certain gene...
02:41:25.000 is methylated in young people.
02:41:27.000 So when we're young, our stem cells have, you know, this gene's methylated.
02:41:30.000 But as we get older, the gene, the methylation goes away.
02:41:34.000 So there's enzymes that actually are called demethylases that take off the methyl groups.
02:41:38.000 And this gene becomes active and then the stem cell like stops dividing.
02:41:42.000 It's like you lose.
02:41:42.000 You're basically losing your stem cell.
02:41:44.000 And then, you know, more stem cells you lose, the worse off you are.
02:41:47.000 You can't replenish your damaged tissue and all that.
02:41:50.000 But what they found was that the thing that activates that thing that takes off the methyl group It's something called NF-kappa B, which is an inflammatory.
02:41:57.000 That thing is activated by inflammation.
02:42:01.000 Inflammation activates NF-kappa B, and then it activates this whole pathway of demethylase that take off methyl groups.
02:42:07.000 So what I'm thinking is that inflammation is a chronic signal.
02:42:11.000 It's a way that I've been able to link...
02:42:14.000 Environment and the way...
02:42:16.000 When I say environment, I just mean like damage, constant accumulation of tissue damage, the DNA damage I was talking about.
02:42:22.000 Environment to epigenetics.
02:42:24.000 So it's like you have a chronic signal of inflammation.
02:42:26.000 It's activating these demethylases.
02:42:28.000 They're taking methyl groups off of DNA. And now you're expressing genes that are usually not expressed when we're young in stem cells that stops the stem cell from dividing.
02:42:37.000 So it's like a really cool link between, you know...
02:42:48.000 I think we're good to go.
02:43:01.000 I think that we're getting really close with...
02:43:04.000 I mean, if you look at, like I said, with the stem cell research that we're doing now where we can even take renal epithelial cells that we excrete in our urine and make it into a pluripotent stem cell.
02:43:15.000 We can make it become a cell in our liver.
02:43:19.000 So I think with the advances we're making with that...
02:43:23.000 In combination with this learning, figuring out the human epigenome, where we're looking at methylation patterns and figuring out what's happening with age, you know, I think we're going to make huge strides in the next decade.
02:43:36.000 I mean, hopefully if research, if funding doesn't go down, you know, it's been going down the drain.
02:43:43.000 Has it been?
02:43:44.000 Yeah.
02:43:44.000 Oh, yeah.
02:43:45.000 I mean, funding is hard.
02:43:47.000 It's really hard.
02:43:48.000 Getting funding in science because...
02:43:50.000 But why is it with something like anti-aging?
02:43:52.000 It would seem like, boy, if there's something to be made where there's money to be made, funding anti-aging research seems like, God, that's the way to go.
02:44:00.000 Well, there is.
02:44:01.000 The National Institute of Aging funds a lot of the aging research and there's also some private foundations that are funding it.
02:44:08.000 But the reality is that we're funding it with taxpayer dollars, right?
02:44:14.000 I mean, there's not a lot of money.
02:44:17.000 For research in general, period.
02:44:19.000 I mean, you'd think that cancer, one would be another, right?
02:44:21.000 I mean, the NCI is funding a lot of cancer research.
02:44:26.000 But the problem is that it's hard to get funding.
02:44:29.000 And the things that are funded, here's what I see as a big problem.
02:44:32.000 The things that are funded by these big institutes are typically things that are already been proven.
02:44:40.000 They're not as creative.
02:44:42.000 You know, the things that people feel are already solid.
02:44:46.000 So it's like, oh, you're already published on this.
02:44:48.000 Yes, we're going to fund you on that.
02:44:49.000 You know, as opposed to someone that has this very creative idea, it's very risky.
02:44:54.000 It's like, well, I'm not going to, you know, there's all these other people that are trying to compete for this money.
02:44:58.000 Giving funding for something like that is...
02:45:00.000 So they don't fund a lot of creative research, which unfortunately is what makes leaps in science.
02:45:07.000 This mice thing is so fascinating because they show that after four weeks, stem cells in both the areas of the muscle and the brain got a boost of activity and were better able to produce neurons and muscle tissue.
02:45:20.000 And then they also discovered that injecting the old mice, or rather the young mice with old blood was a huge setback.
02:45:29.000 It was a huge setback.
02:45:31.000 When conjoined to an older mouse, so bringing the old blood into the new mouse, the creation of new cells in the young mouse slowed, and old blood seemed to cause premature aging.
02:45:43.000 Yeah.
02:45:43.000 Isn't that incredible?
02:45:44.000 It is incredible.
02:45:45.000 I mean, it's...
02:45:46.000 But how long before people start fucking doing something gross, like taking a person, stealing their blood, introducing it to their own to stay young?
02:45:56.000 I mean, it's really vampirism.
02:45:57.000 Yeah.
02:45:58.000 I mean...
02:46:00.000 For sure.
02:46:01.000 Oh, wait.
02:46:01.000 Now I remember that.
02:46:02.000 Someone's read this.
02:46:03.000 I think I remember that study now.
02:46:05.000 I'm going to grab another water real quick.
02:46:06.000 Yeah, please.
02:46:07.000 This one right there.
02:46:10.000 Well, this study...
02:46:11.000 It was published in the Washington Post.
02:46:18.000 The article was published on May 4th.
02:46:21.000 And the study...
02:46:22.000 Two of the studies published online, the Journal of Science...
02:46:25.000 Came out, let's see here.
02:46:31.000 Yeah, one of them was from Stanford, the Stanford group.
02:46:35.000 Well, apparently they've been working on this for quite a while, but the results of the blood results have been pretty shocking to a lot of people.
02:46:46.000 I think a lot of it comes down to, you know, like I said, there's these...
02:46:48.000 If you look at the epigenome, the methylation patterns in these stem cells, these young stem cells, even young cells in general, they're very different from old ones.
02:46:58.000 And that affects the way...
02:46:59.000 I mean, if you're looking at epigenetics, you're talking about regulating a whole host of genes, like hundreds of different genes.
02:47:05.000 And so if these things are being differentially regulated when you're young versus old...
02:47:09.000 Then taking someone's young blood and transplanting into the old transplantee would make sense because now you're basically taking all those...
02:47:23.000 Patterns that we've been able to identify and gene expression things are now going back to young.
02:47:28.000 So it's like now you're not expressing genes that are causing your stem cells to senesce.
02:47:33.000 You're expressing more things that are involved in DNA repair and things like that.
02:47:38.000 This is incredible what they were able to do.
02:47:40.000 They actually had more endurance.
02:47:43.000 They navigated mazes faster, ran longer on treadmills, and they easily outperformed their control peers.
02:47:48.000 That's awesome.
02:47:49.000 Who were only given saline.
02:47:50.000 So it's like a definitive response.
02:47:53.000 Right.
02:47:54.000 It's such a creepy one, though.
02:47:56.000 But I think this is something that we can do with the reprogramming of our own skin cells into pluripotent stem cells.
02:48:05.000 Right.
02:48:06.000 Yes.
02:48:07.000 Yeah.
02:48:08.000 That's really fascinating.
02:48:09.000 It's the same concept, but you don't have to get someone's young blood.
02:48:12.000 You're doing it to yourself.
02:48:13.000 And haven't they been able to come up with artificial blood cells?
02:48:16.000 Isn't that another thing that they've been working on?
02:48:18.000 That sounds familiar.
02:48:20.000 I don't know.
02:48:21.000 Artificial heart cells as well, I think.
02:48:24.000 Yeah.
02:48:25.000 I don't remember exactly the studies and the mechanisms.
02:48:30.000 Although it is difficult to get funding, there are so many different artificial blood.
02:48:37.000 Wow.
02:48:38.000 Patient ready.
02:48:39.000 This is from the-scientist.com and it's saying that wow.
02:48:47.000 This is incredible.
02:48:48.000 In the midst of news that engineered organs are being implanted into animals and people, researchers announced the creation of artificial blood for transplant.
02:48:58.000 This is very recent, too.
02:48:59.000 April 16th.
02:49:02.000 It's nuts.
02:49:03.000 We live in strange times when it comes to these things.
02:49:05.000 Every day or so, it seems like some new study from somewhere in the world is popping up that shows this incredible breakthrough.
02:49:11.000 The young mice study, this study, the artificial blood study.
02:49:15.000 If they can engineer some sort of a super potent blood...
02:49:18.000 Yeah.
02:49:41.000 I agree.
02:49:42.000 But I do think it's really cool.
02:49:43.000 I mean, I know when I first got into the biological sciences, so I was a chemistry major in college, I did research using these nematode worms, C. elegans worms, that have like a 14 or 15 day lifespan.
02:49:58.000 And they have a lot of the same genes that we have, but I could like inactivate one of their genes and literally double their lifespan.
02:50:05.000 So they went from living like 14 or 15 days to like 30 days.
02:50:10.000 Actually, you inactivate insulin growth factor, and what happens is that this growth factor then, usually when it's active, it keeps this FOXO gene,
02:50:26.000 which is a transcription factor, outside of the nucleus and doesn't allow it to perform all the functions it usually performs, which is involved in a bunch of stress resistance, like hundreds and hundreds of genes.
02:50:37.000 And so when you get rid of that IGF1 signaling in the worms, FOXO gets activated and all those genes involved in stress resistance get activated and the worms live twice as long.
02:50:46.000 So it's like literally a genetic program in these worms that's controlling the way they age.
02:50:51.000 So when I first, I remember that hit me, it was kind of like, holy crap.
02:50:57.000 Like, that's pretty cool.
02:50:59.000 Like, being able to reprogram the way you age.
02:51:02.000 It's just such an amazing time with all this stuff, because it seems like we're around at just the right time to catch this just incredible percolating of all these new studies and all these new things that are being developed.
02:51:17.000 It's just such a strange time to try to pay attention to all of it and watch it all happen.
02:51:21.000 It's so exciting.
02:51:22.000 It must be really exciting for you because this is your field of study.
02:51:27.000 Oh, no.
02:51:27.000 It's great.
02:51:28.000 I think we're definitely going to live longer.
02:51:31.000 How long do you think you're going to live?
02:51:33.000 In my lifetime?
02:51:35.000 I don't know.
02:51:36.000 Without chrismic yellowstone erupting or asteroid impacts?
02:51:42.000 I don't know.
02:51:42.000 I'd like to be a centenarian.
02:51:44.000 That's it.
02:51:45.000 A hundred?
02:51:46.000 Good with a hundred?
02:51:47.000 Yeah, you know.
02:51:48.000 But what if a hundred comes around and they've got shit locked down where you look like you look now at a hundred?
02:51:56.000 Then I could go for two hundred.
02:51:59.000 Well, I feel like I'm happier now than I was when I was younger.
02:52:02.000 I'm smarter.
02:52:03.000 I understand stress better.
02:52:05.000 I understand all sorts of emotions.
02:52:08.000 I understand management.
02:52:10.000 Management of my body, of my hormones, management of my feelings, management of my energy levels, stress, relaxation techniques, stretching, yoga, all that different stuff.
02:52:21.000 I feel like I'm just way happier.
02:52:24.000 You said that old expression, youth is wasted on the young.
02:52:27.000 You know, like, I understand life better.
02:52:30.000 I'm better at it now.
02:52:31.000 I'm better at being me.
02:52:32.000 It was like it was an awkward thing when I was younger.
02:52:35.000 I'm way more relaxed and easy with it now.
02:52:37.000 I feel like at 200, I'd be a goddamn wizard.
02:52:40.000 I would have shit down to a science!
02:52:43.000 I would have the amount of errors that I'd make as far as, you know, everyday average things that you fuck up.
02:52:51.000 You would fuck up almost nothing.
02:52:53.000 Every day would be like, you could learn new things.
02:52:56.000 You could challenge yourself.
02:52:57.000 You could constantly be learning languages.
02:52:59.000 Like, I never understand the people that say like, oh, I get bored.
02:53:02.000 I wouldn't even want to live past a certain age.
02:53:04.000 Like, I don't know about you.
02:53:05.000 I never get bored.
02:53:06.000 There's always new things to learn, new things to study.
02:53:10.000 I agree.
02:53:10.000 The new things to...
02:53:10.000 The world is so big.
02:53:12.000 There's so much to learn.
02:53:14.000 Exactly.
02:53:14.000 It would be awesome to just have time to sit around and learn how to play the piano, learn how to speak a new language.
02:53:21.000 I'm always sitting around reading about science, which I really enjoy doing, but I agree.
02:53:26.000 There's so much out there to learn.
02:53:29.000 You might get to a point, if you're 200 years old, you might abandon science totally and just fucking go down some totally different road.
02:53:36.000 You might be a sculptor.
02:53:37.000 You know what I mean?
02:53:39.000 You could live several lives.
02:53:40.000 I certainly hoped that I'd still be active.
02:53:43.000 When I lived in San Diego, I was a surfer and surf instructor.
02:53:49.000 Were you really?
02:53:50.000 You instructed people?
02:53:51.000 I used to teach at an all-girls surf school in La Jolla.
02:53:54.000 I love La Jolla.
02:53:55.000 I used to live two blocks from the beach, so I'd walk to the beach before class.
02:53:59.000 It's on fire right now.
02:54:00.000 See all that stuff about San Diego?
02:54:01.000 What?
02:54:01.000 No.
02:54:02.000 You haven't seen?
02:54:03.000 My family's there.
02:54:04.000 Oh my god, San Diego's experiencing crazy fires right now.
02:54:07.000 No, I had no idea.
02:54:08.000 Huge tornadoes of fire, 100 feet high.
02:54:11.000 Well, I haven't gotten a phone call, so that's a good sign.
02:54:15.000 Well, I mean, the fire department's down there on top of it because they have to deal with this stuff every couple of years.
02:54:21.000 You know, there was the big one a couple of years ago.
02:54:24.000 I was scheduled to go down and do a show and there was these big fires and it was so crazy.
02:54:29.000 I wound up doing the show, but I said, I donated all the money to the Red Cross.
02:54:35.000 I'm like, I can't.
02:54:36.000 I mean, there was so many people off their houses.
02:54:38.000 I just felt like it would be so gross to go down there and just make money.
02:54:41.000 Yeah.
02:54:42.000 I remember back in like, I think it was like 2002 or something when we had a really big fire in San Diego.
02:54:49.000 And I was actually out surfing.
02:54:50.000 I was in the water.
02:54:52.000 And it was really weird because there were all these pelicans and all these birds flocking to the water.
02:54:59.000 Like, you know, I'm sitting out on my surfboard looking out on the horizon waiting for the wave.
02:55:02.000 And it's like, The apocalypse, like birds were just coming to the water, right?
02:55:08.000 And it's like, what is going on?
02:55:10.000 So I get out of the water and there's just ash falling, like, because my car was, I was in La Jolla Shores at the time, my car was in the parking lot.
02:55:16.000 And there was just ash, like, all over the cars and parking lot.
02:55:19.000 But it was like, that moment where I was sitting on my board and all the birds, like, came to the water.
02:55:25.000 Like, I had this almost like, oh my god, it's a nuclear warfare.
02:55:29.000 Something that, you know, that eerie moment, like, have you ever had one of those?
02:55:33.000 Yeah.
02:55:33.000 Where you just get this eerie feeling where it's like, it's the end, this is it, you know?
02:55:38.000 And anyways, that fire burned a lot of, really close to where my dad lives, actually.
02:55:42.000 I've been evacuated twice out here.
02:55:44.000 Really?
02:55:45.000 Yeah, my neighborhood came really close two times to giant fires.
02:55:51.000 I mean, we have fires that are so bad out here.
02:55:53.000 One time, while we were doing it, and this was the time I got evacuated, I was filming Fear Factor, and I drove from Los Angeles to Tohono Ranch.
02:56:04.000 Tohono Ranch is about an hour and a half outside of LA. And as I was driving near Simi Valley, which is about 40 minutes from here, Simi Valley is where the fire kicked in.
02:56:17.000 And then from there, for the next 50 minutes of driving, there was no fire.
02:56:23.000 Well, when I got to work, we started filming, we were doing the show, and then when we were done and we left, the fire had reached us.
02:56:32.000 So the fire had reached, you know, an hour of driving.
02:56:36.000 So we're talking about, you know, somewhere around 60 plus miles.
02:56:39.000 And the entire right side of the road was like a Lord of the Rings movie.
02:56:44.000 It was like I was expecting a demon to ride a flaming horse.
02:56:48.000 It was insane.
02:56:49.000 For an hour, an hour of driving, all you saw to the right side of you was flames.
02:56:54.000 It was amazing.
02:56:55.000 The only thing that separated it was the highway, and flames were jumping the highway, and they had tried to keep the fire as far away from the roads and far away from structures, but it was so out of control that it traveled 50 miles plus in a few hours.
02:57:09.000 I mean, in a place like this, like L.A. or San Diego, where there's a lot of dry brush, what kind of mechanisms do they have?
02:57:18.000 I mean, they obviously know this can be a serious problem.
02:57:20.000 Is there any sort of...
02:57:22.000 There's not much they can do.
02:57:23.000 I mean, they try to stop it.
02:57:24.000 They create fire breaks.
02:57:25.000 They drop repellents on it.
02:57:27.000 They drop this red stuff that squashes the fire in certain areas.
02:57:32.000 But this fire leaps.
02:57:33.000 The problem is these things cross highways.
02:57:35.000 The embers fly through the air.
02:57:37.000 They land on dry brush and poof, they're off to the races.
02:57:40.000 We're running out of time.
02:57:42.000 You wanted to promote something.
02:57:44.000 What do you got going on?
02:57:44.000 What's your iPhone app?
02:57:46.000 I do.
02:57:46.000 I have a new iPhone app.
02:57:48.000 It's Found My Fitness, and it was just released earlier this week.
02:57:51.000 And it's basically you can get my podcast where I talk about my information.
02:57:54.000 And also I have a news section where I give news stories, and it's a community section.
02:57:59.000 If you've ever used Reddit or Hacker News, it's based on that.
02:58:03.000 Beautiful.
02:58:03.000 Yeah, I'm trying to make an interactive community.
02:58:06.000 So if you download my podcast, it would be really cool.
02:58:08.000 Right now it's new, so it counts as twice the download.
02:58:11.000 Beautiful.
02:58:12.000 And also FoundMyFitness.com is where you can...
02:58:15.000 Follow me.
02:58:16.000 I've got a bunch of gadgets on there.
02:58:18.000 You can click to download my newsletter.
02:58:20.000 Follow me on Twitter.
02:58:21.000 I also have a Patreon campaign where I'm trying to do these podcasts and I have a couple of milestones where I'm trying to do two podcasts a month or four.
02:58:32.000 So I'm asking people to pledge $0.25 a month to help me reach my milestones so that I can help give you the context that you need and the mechanisms for how Science and health and nutrition, all these things are interacting.
02:58:46.000 That's about as reasonable as you could ever ask.
02:58:49.000 25 cents?
02:58:50.000 Yeah, I'd like to have a lot of people just doing 25 cents a month because it's less than a cup of coffee.
02:58:56.000 What?
02:58:57.000 One minute?
02:58:58.000 One minute to go.
02:58:58.000 Alright, we've got to wrap this up.
02:59:00.000 So FoundMyFitness at Twitter, FoundMyFitness, FoundMyFitness.com.
02:59:04.000 All the information is there.
02:59:06.000 Thank you, Rhonda Patrick.
02:59:07.000 As always, you're amazing.
02:59:08.000 These conversations are so enlightening and so educational.
02:59:11.000 I mean, I've got to go back over it 30 or 40 times to really absorb it all.
02:59:15.000 But I really, really appreciate it.
02:59:16.000 Let's do it again in a few months.
02:59:18.000 Awesome.
02:59:18.000 Let's do it.
02:59:19.000 Thank you so much.
02:59:20.000 Alright, thank you to everybody tuned in.
02:59:22.000 Thanks to our sponsor.
02:59:23.000 Thanks to this week.
02:59:24.000 Thanks to Stamps.com.
02:59:26.000 Use the code word J-R-E and save yourself some money.
02:59:30.000 Lots and lots of cool guests next week.
02:59:34.000 I'll tell you about them all later.
02:59:35.000 I'll see you soon.
02:59:36.000 Steve Maxwell's coming back next week.
02:59:38.000 Alex Ross from SharkWorks.com.
02:59:40.000 We're going to have a lot of fun.
02:59:42.000 See you soon.
02:59:42.000 Bye.