The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #646 - Dr. Dan Engle & Aubrey Marcus

00:00:02.000 We're live?

00:00:03.000 Just like that?

00:00:04.000 Seems like there should be some sort of a chime we ring.

00:00:08.000 Ding!

00:00:11.000 Just a big gong, a five-footer.

00:00:13.000 Not a big gong.

00:00:14.000 Big gongs are obnoxious.

00:00:16.000 It's because you're just going to talk. 0.99

00:00:18.000 Be a big gong if you're going to have like a fucking Cirque du Soleil experience and a bunch of dudes come out flipping with fire and do fucking juggle flames. 0.99

00:00:26.000 Or a kumite, a good kumite. 0.99

00:00:28.000 Yes, a good kumite.

00:00:32.000 Dr. Dan, you got a notebook over there, dude?

00:00:34.000 What are you going on here?

00:00:35.000 Well, I saw you guys with all these notepads.

00:00:38.000 I just wanted to make sure I'm prepared.

00:00:40.000 Is that what's going on, man?

00:00:41.000 Well, 27 years of school, I get used to taking notes. 0.98

00:00:46.000 Dr. Dan Engel here with Aubrey, motherfucking Marcus in the house. 0.98

00:00:53.000 And we decided to sit down and talk. 1.00

00:00:56.000 Shoot the shit. 1.00

00:00:57.000 We just got done doing 200 and some fucking degrees below zero cryotherapy sessions. 1.00

00:01:04.000 Your first time ever in the full body one. 0.98

00:01:06.000 Full head immersion.

00:01:07.000 Yeah, it's the real one, right?

00:01:08.000 It's the real deal.

00:01:09.000 Yeah, you can only get those in a couple places right now.

00:01:12.000 That's ultimately going to be what it is.

00:01:14.000 It's going to be...

00:01:15.000 The difference being the other ones they pour, it's like nitrogen all over your skin, like a frozen nitrogen sort of thing, but you can't breathe it.

00:01:23.000 That's why your head is above.

00:01:25.000 But this, what they do is they freeze the air instead, and you go in there and it's just fucking ungodly, insanely cold, and you wear a mouth...

00:01:33.000 Like a surgeon's mask over your face and earmuffs and gloves and those rubber... 0.99

00:01:39.000 It's the only time we were allowed to wear rubber crocs, those croc-clog things and not feel like an asshole. 1.00

00:01:45.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:01:46.000 But what did you experience with that?

00:01:49.000 You know, I think for me, a key part is getting that upper half of my body in the tank.

00:01:55.000 You know, we have a one and on it that's awesome for any kind of inflammation in my legs, my knees, my, you know, my hips is really good.

00:02:01.000 But then getting that, like, so the cold's getting into your eye sockets and the cold's getting into the temples of your head.

00:02:08.000 I found it really relaxing, actually.

00:02:10.000 A lot of people think it gives a lot of energy.

00:02:12.000 I found it, like, deeply relaxing.

00:02:14.000 After you got out, you were really relaxed.

00:02:15.000 That's interesting.

00:02:16.000 Yeah.

00:02:17.000 Yeah, everybody seems to have a different reaction to it.

00:02:19.000 Robin was talking about that after it was over.

00:02:21.000 He was saying that some people feel like an endorphin crash at the end of the day.

00:02:25.000 Like you have this big rush when you get out of there and at the end of the day you're very tired.

00:02:29.000 Which I found really weird because I don't get that at all.

00:02:32.000 I get out of there and I'm like...

00:02:33.000 I feel fucking great. 0.97

00:02:35.000 I'm addicted to that thing. 0.97

00:02:36.000 Yeah, I bet.

00:02:37.000 Your first time doing it ever?

00:02:39.000 First time.

00:02:40.000 Have you done the one that they have it on it?

00:02:41.000 Nope.

00:02:42.000 Today was my debut.

00:02:44.000 What'd you guys do? 0.99

00:02:44.000 Two and a half minutes like pussies? 0.99

00:02:46.000 Is that what happened? 0.99

00:02:46.000 I mean, two and a half hours at least. 0.99

00:02:49.000 I don't know.

00:02:50.000 It's a long time, I think.

00:02:54.000 Yeah, it's three minutes in, a few minutes out, and then three minutes back in.

00:02:59.000 It's a great way to start the day.

00:03:01.000 It's very addictive, though.

00:03:02.000 If you had one near your house, man, you'd get addicted.

00:03:05.000 It's more addictive than the one with your head above it for whatever reason.

00:03:09.000 Because there's something about, like, you survive it, you know?

00:03:13.000 And, like, there's, like, this weird, like, once you get out of there, it's like, yes, I got it!

00:03:17.000 I'm back!

00:03:18.000 Yes!

00:03:19.000 Yes, I did it!

00:03:20.000 Yes, yes, yes, yes!

00:03:21.000 Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes! 1.00

00:03:22.000 You know, you start fucking hot-footing around the room, woohoo! 0.97

00:03:26.000 You know, it just, you feel like you survived, and you want to go back and do it again. 0.97

00:03:30.000 Yeah, there's a crucible element to it, where it's like, this is something I accomplished, for sure.

00:03:36.000 Yeah, I feel that.

00:03:37.000 What'd you get out of it, Dan?

00:03:39.000 I watched my system go into the survival mode.

00:03:42.000 Yeah.

00:03:43.000 Like that last minute.

00:03:44.000 Well, as a doctor, like, must have been interesting.

00:03:47.000 Knowing the functions of the body intimately.

00:03:51.000 Yeah, I'm always curious about health recovery, the crucible experience, putting ourselves in these really extreme situations.

00:04:00.000 And then that last minute, the first one was pretty much a piece of cake.

00:04:04.000 The second one, I was cold straight off.

00:04:07.000 And in that last minute, I went in these involuntary shakes.

00:04:11.000 And I'm watching my body just jump around like a little race car inside.

00:04:16.000 I'm like, whew, maybe I can just work on tuning this down a little bit.

00:04:20.000 And I'm like zenning, dropping, doing whatever Jimi Hendrix was playing in the background.

00:04:26.000 And nothing was working and it was just like hyperdrive.

00:04:29.000 So I'm just watching this thing going like trippy.

00:04:31.000 So it was this, like, significant mind-body separation.

00:04:35.000 I had no control over that experience.

00:04:38.000 So as far as being put in the Crucible, like, this survival experience, like, when I came out, I definitely felt like I had crossed some kind of threshold of an experience that I wouldn't have had otherwise.

00:04:50.000 Have you ever done the ice bath?

00:04:53.000 You know, those things where you climb into the thing that's filled with ice and water?

00:04:57.000 Those are miserable.

00:04:58.000 Those are miserable? 0.99

00:04:59.000 More miserable, right? 1.00

00:05:00.000 I think they're more miserable.

00:05:02.000 Because your toes get to another level of frozen as well.

00:05:07.000 It's a wet cold.

00:05:08.000 It really soaks in.

00:05:09.000 It gets deep into your bones.

00:05:11.000 It feels good, though, too.

00:05:12.000 You pop out of that.

00:05:13.000 You actually feel warmer, I think, when you come out of that.

00:05:18.000 There's like a numbness that happens that makes you feel weirdly warm, whereas the cryo, you still feel a little cold.

00:05:24.000 Have you ever gone in the Pacific Ocean in like January?

00:05:27.000 I used to live out here, yeah.

00:05:29.000 We'd go out there, that's chilly.

00:05:31.000 But you know that feeling like you really shouldn't be warm when you get outside, because it's only like 70 degrees outside, but you're like, ah!

00:05:39.000 That 70 feels so good.

00:05:41.000 Yeah, totally.

00:05:42.000 There's something about...

00:05:43.000 We were discussing this about forcing the body to react to the sauna.

00:05:49.000 Dr. Rhonda Patrick, who wrote that really fascinating paper on the effects of sauna...

00:05:56.000 And she's a huge proponent of sauna, and the reaction that your body has to this extreme heat of the sauna, so your body compensates in some way for that, and then when it realizes it's just a temporary situation, you get the benefit of that compensation without actually being in some life-threatening position where your body has to,

00:06:17.000 you know, fire up all these protection systems.

00:06:21.000 Yeah, all kinds of things going on.

00:06:23.000 You got creation of heat shock proteins, you got all of these biochemical processes going on, plus just that general thing that the body needs.

00:06:31.000 Body needs resistance.

00:06:32.000 It needs germs when you're a kid.

00:06:35.000 It needs to squeeze through the vaginal canal and pick up all the goo when you're young to get acclimatized.

00:06:42.000 Workouts when you're old and bigger, things distress the muscles, and these things distress the system all the way across the board.

00:06:49.000 It's just the way humans are built.

00:06:50.000 We're not built for a cakewalk. 0.99

00:06:52.000 Yeah, we're built to deal with whatever the fuck we have to deal with. 0.98

00:06:56.000 And if you make your body deal with almost nothing, what you get is like a spoiled child that can't handle any sort of, you know, any negative or any conflict, any problems, anything that's offline where it requires character or resolve. 0.96

00:07:14.000 Yeah, like you meet those people who grew up in the wilderness and they're like, They can eat more foods than you can.

00:07:21.000 They don't get sick as often.

00:07:22.000 They're just more resilient.

00:07:24.000 Like my friend Bodie who grew up in New Hampshire.

00:07:27.000 It's like what he can put his body through from just growing up on a farm with no running water and hardly any electricity and just kind of cruising around from a young age, climbing mountains and skiing down even when he was freezing. 0.92

00:07:40.000 He can deal with shit in a different way than someone who's just been... 0.97

00:07:45.000 Put your coat on, sweetie. 0.99

00:07:46.000 Make sure your scarf is all tied up. 0.98

00:07:49.000 It's like a different level of savagery that has actually allowed him to train harder for his sport and be better because his body was used to dealing with tough shit from an early age.

00:07:59.000 Yeah, it's fascinating because people, and I'm guilty of it, we want to protect our children from adversity.

00:08:07.000 But adversity is what builds character.

00:08:09.000 So it's like you want your kids to be safe.

00:08:14.000 Sure.

00:08:15.000 But the only way to make them safe is to put them in danger.

00:08:17.000 Right. 0.98

00:08:18.000 You know, like, everybody that I know that'll be fine, they're all dudes who've gone through some horrific shit in their life.

00:08:25.000 You know, I know I'll leave that dude, he'll be fine.

00:08:28.000 You know?

00:08:29.000 Right. 1.00

00:08:29.000 Well, the people that can't handle it, the ones that'll fall apart, they're the ones that their mom wiped their ass until they're 11 years old. 1.00

00:08:36.000 Mm-hmm. 1.00

00:08:38.000 Fucked. 1.00

00:08:39.000 Fucked. 1.00

00:08:40.000 This doesn't work. 1.00

00:08:41.000 Humans are just a flawed thing.

00:08:43.000 Well, I mean, we're kind of designed in that sort of weird way.

00:08:46.000 Well, we're designed for this savage world.

00:08:48.000 I mean, this world is not...

00:08:49.000 It's beautiful and I'd love it, but it's not easy and it was never intended to be easy.

00:08:54.000 And so we're designed to have to learn from these and get stronger because of our environment.

00:08:59.000 We separate ourselves from the environment.

00:09:01.000 The human ceases to be what it was originally designed to be, which is a being that reacts to the pressures of its environment.

00:09:07.000 You isolate it and then we don't have that resistance anymore and we turn out like a blob.

00:09:12.000 Well, there was a study that I tweeted yesterday about that, sort of in direct relation to that, about young men today that are addicted to pornography and video games, and they're going through this masculinity crisis.

00:09:26.000 So it's this psychological breakdown of young men in our society today because they're not going through any real adversity.

00:09:34.000 They're not going through any real rites of passage, pushing themselves physically.

00:09:39.000 No, what they're doing is they're just beating off and playing video games.

00:09:43.000 It's like this weird world that they live in where they're kind of like their symbiotic relationship with a couch and an Xbox controller.

00:09:51.000 Right.

00:09:52.000 Yeah, what do you think is going to happen with that?

00:09:55.000 What are the downstream effects there, Dr. Dan?

00:09:58.000 Yeah.

00:09:59.000 Have you seen that study?

00:10:01.000 I haven't seen the study you're talking about, but that makes perfect sense.

00:10:04.000 We're having like two divergent populations where some people are really seeking these kinds of experiences where they're able to stress their system, grow their potential, become their best selves.

00:10:16.000 And you have other people that, because they don't have a connection to what's happening, they don't have a connection to purpose, passion, drive, inspiration.

00:10:24.000 They're not mentored.

00:10:26.000 They're not going through these rites of pastors.

00:10:27.000 They're not going through any kind of supportive exploration of themselves in the world.

00:10:33.000 They're just finding ways to distract themselves and find some kind of pleasure in the big craziness of it all.

00:10:40.000 So in the midst of that, you're going to have this massive widening between these two divergent populations.

00:10:49.000 It's so seductive on the video game, though, because you think you're improving yourself.

00:10:53.000 Because you have these characters that are avatars that are you to an actual real population of people who identify you as that character.

00:11:01.000 And then the more work you put into that character, the more you improve it.

00:11:05.000 It improves their skills.

00:11:06.000 They get richer. 0.98

00:11:07.000 They get badass shit, like the equivalent of rims that spin, you know, on their weapons. 0.99

00:11:11.000 And then they get level 40, 50, 60. And then you're really swinging a big dick out there, you know, when you're that big. 1.00

00:11:17.000 So it's this seductive thing of they do feel like they're improving, but they're not actually. 0.99

00:11:23.000 Yeah, how do you actualize that in the world?

00:11:25.000 Well, is that the case, or are we in some sort of a transitionary period between a physical, biological, carbon-based cellular life and a digital life?

00:11:37.000 Because if we really do transition to a digital life, which is a lot of speculation from legitimate scientists and people that are looking at the curve of learning and the exponential growth of technology, and they're like, look, this is inevitable.

00:11:51.000 We're not going to be physical beings for that much longer.

00:11:54.000 It's pretty obvious that we're going to eventually incorporate with machines to the point where the concept of living in a virtual world, a world where you can just put on these headsets and go into the world of Avatar and live out this intense,

00:12:10.000 unbelievably rich existence inside this artificially created world, It's going to be so much more appealing and attractive.

00:12:18.000 I think that's what we're seeing with these kids.

00:12:21.000 When they're playing Call of Duty or any of these other games, it's so much better than going out and being a regular teenager with no job prospects, no skills, nothing unique about you, nothing particularly challenging in your life other than feeding yourself and getting to bed on time.

00:12:44.000 You know, it's just nothing there, but they can go into this world, and there's fucking bullets flying overhead, and they're all talking on headsets and trying to set up an ambush to go get the enemy, and da-da-da-da-da-da-da, and helicopters are flying overhead, and that's way more exciting.

00:13:00.000 It's way more exciting. 0.88

00:13:02.000 And this is just the beginnings of this digital world.

00:13:07.000 I mean, these are artificial realities that they exist in.

00:13:11.000 But they're so clearly artificial that we don't think of them that way.

00:13:15.000 We think of them as a video game.

00:13:16.000 But once it becomes something that's indistinguishable, once it's something that's going on inside your head, I mean, how many years are we really away from something where you put it on And it has electrodes that react with various areas in your brain where they can stimulate these areas and reproduce insane visual effects.

00:13:40.000 Physical effects.

00:13:42.000 The feeling of your foot on gravel as you're running down this beach.

00:13:47.000 Like you feel it in your feet.

00:13:48.000 I mean, how long before they can do that?

00:13:50.000 It's not that far off.

00:13:52.000 It's way closer than going to another planet.

00:13:55.000 It's way closer than...

00:13:57.000 You know, setting up a colony on the moon. 0.56

00:13:59.000 They're pretty fucking close to doing this.

00:14:01.000 This is a decade away at most. 0.81

00:14:05.000 It's kind of a weird, exciting, but terrifying thought.

00:14:09.000 Very terrifying.

00:14:10.000 You want to think, you want to hold out and think, ah, the real world will be better.

00:14:14.000 I know it.

00:14:15.000 They won't get the smells right.

00:14:17.000 They'll screw something up.

00:14:19.000 But it's very possible that eventually they can create virtual worlds that will be pretty satisfying.

00:14:27.000 I don't know.

00:14:28.000 I want to hold out faith.

00:14:29.000 Maybe it's just a desire, a romantic desire.

00:14:31.000 I want to hold out faith that doing something for reals, for reals.

00:14:36.000 Feeling your real body underneath you.

00:14:38.000 Maybe it's just even the knowledge that it's for reals, for reals.

00:14:41.000 It just seems like that would be better.

00:14:44.000 Yeah, for now.

00:14:46.000 But if it continues to improve and grow, it seems like it's got to be way more satisfying to live in that world.

00:14:55.000 It sounds like you're talking about the matrix, right?

00:14:58.000 Exactly.

00:14:59.000 Then it really depends on who's the puppet master and what the agenda is.

00:15:05.000 Like who's creating the matrix, yeah.

00:15:07.000 And for what outcome?

00:15:09.000 For what reason?

00:15:10.000 Yeah, could the Matrix be something that the user creates?

00:15:14.000 I mean, could it be autonomous?

00:15:16.000 Could the user decide what kind of experience?

00:15:18.000 And then what?

00:15:19.000 You're just going to be the king of the Matrix? 1.00

00:15:20.000 You're just going to be Genghis Khan fucking all these women and cutting everybody's heads off and never lose a war? 1.00

00:15:26.000 I mean, is that... 1.00

00:15:27.000 What are we going to do?

00:15:28.000 Alan Watts kind of talks about that.

00:15:30.000 When you get total control of something, it becomes boring.

00:15:33.000 And so then you would want to naturally add in elements of risk, add in elements of uncertainty, because then it becomes exciting again.

00:15:42.000 So actually, probably the progression will be, if you listen to that Alan Watts Inception video, the progression will be You go and you do that.

00:15:50.000 You get to be Genghis Khan. 0.88

00:15:51.000 You have sex with 100,000 women. 1.00

00:15:53.000 You raid all these places. 0.99

00:15:54.000 You win everything.

00:15:55.000 And then all of a sudden, you make it more difficult, so you don't know if you're going to win.

00:15:58.000 And then to make it exciting, you don't know if you're going to get laid again. 0.98

00:16:01.000 And then all of a sudden, you reprogram it back and realize, holy shit, life was what I really wanted all along. 0.87

00:16:08.000 It has all the uncertainty and challenge that makes this thing really fun. 0.99

00:16:11.000 Otherwise, it's all fucking boring.

00:16:13.000 Or we find out that life itself is actually just a virtual reality and that we've all this time been living in this incredibly realistic simulation. 0.92

00:16:24.000 Cool. 0.99

00:16:25.000 I'll give the programmer a high five because this shit's awesome. 0.99

00:16:27.000 It's pretty good. 0.99

00:16:28.000 They did a good job.

00:16:29.000 I mean, they set up all the preposterous aspects that make you question its reality. 0.95

00:16:34.000 Like the Chris Christie thing we were talking about today was in the news that he spent some fucking ungodly amount of money. 0.79

00:16:42.000 You know, if you don't know who Chris Christie is, he's the governor of New Jersey. 0.98

00:16:46.000 He's an enormously, morbidly overweight gentleman who wants to run for president and also wants to make sure that people don't smoke marijuana.

00:16:56.000 Because marijuana is bad for you.

00:16:57.000 Unlike massively overeating, which apparently is not that bad for you.

00:17:04.000 But it seems like it's not real when you read this.

00:17:09.000 He spent $82,000 of taxpayer money on food at NFL games.

00:17:18.000 You know how much food costs at NFL games?

00:17:21.000 Not much.

00:17:21.000 It's like $8 for a sausage.

00:17:23.000 You know how much he has to eat?

00:17:25.000 It's insane how much money he spent.

00:17:28.000 But this is all taxpayer money. 1.00

00:17:29.000 This is why it's so fucked up, man. 1.00

00:17:32.000 God. 1.00

00:17:34.000 It's insane.

00:17:36.000 It's hard to believe.

00:17:38.000 You know, one thing that they will never get right in one of these experiences, though, is like the true mystical experience.

00:17:45.000 You know, in this virtual reality world, going to sit and drink ayahuasca virtually is not going to be the same as sitting down, hearing the Icaros, the sound of the jungle, and drinking that in reality.

00:17:58.000 Like, that dimension...

00:18:01.000 Is so different than what I think could ever be programmed.

00:18:05.000 So at least I think we got that one we can hold out for.

00:18:07.000 Maybe.

00:18:08.000 Well, that was what McKenna believed they were going to be able to...

00:18:12.000 He believed that the DMT experience was going to be accessible to people through virtual reality first.

00:18:18.000 We're good to go.

00:18:38.000 And he thought that if you did do that, you would actually contact the real DMT realm.

00:18:44.000 And there would be a way that they would enter through that gate.

00:18:48.000 Obviously, he did way too many.

00:18:50.000 He went too far.

00:18:52.000 That guy went too far.

00:18:53.000 His own brother admits that.

00:18:56.000 He was amazing.

00:18:57.000 He was an amazing bard. 0.99

00:18:58.000 And he had some incredible ideas because of that.

00:19:01.000 But...

00:19:02.000 That was one of the big ones.

00:19:03.000 Well, you can duplicate the visuals, but the creativity and the specificity of what the message is that come across.

00:19:10.000 I mean, it's not just random.

00:19:11.000 It doesn't work for everybody.

00:19:12.000 It's not like picking up an astrology book where it's going to work for most people or whatever.

00:19:18.000 It's This is specific information for you that comes out.

00:19:22.000 And I think that true connection with whatever that other place in your brain is or that other world, the astral world, whatever you want to call it, your vocabulary permits, that true access allows this kind of really unique message to come through that's just tailored for you and that's why it's so effective.

00:19:42.000 Yeah, that is one of the weird and unique aspects of psychedelic experiences.

00:19:46.000 It's almost like what you need at that time finds you.

00:19:51.000 It's almost like there's an assessment of your overall predicament and go, oh, look, why do these things keep going on, Jim?

00:20:00.000 I lost the connection to the HDMI to show you guys the stuff.

00:20:03.000 Show us what?

00:20:07.000 Oh, that's okay.

00:20:08.000 Don't worry about it. 1.00

00:20:10.000 Goddamn TriCaster. 1.00

00:20:12.000 Shitty fucking machine. 1.00

00:20:14.000 But it seems like it finds whatever hole you've got and then fills it in. 1.00

00:20:22.000 Like, oh, you just shove this in that hole and now you're going to get a...

00:20:27.000 A sense of what's wrong and you're gonna get a sort of a depiction or a picture of what the errors on your operating system are.

00:20:36.000 Yep.

00:20:38.000 That it finds it.

00:20:39.000 Is that what you think it makes psychedelic research so appealing is that it's tailoring like dialing in a specific solution for each individual from a psychiatric standpoint, Dan?

00:20:50.000 Yeah, I think there are a couple of different opportunities that it presents which is bringing up to the surface that very thing that we're ready to receive that we didn't realize was right there.

00:21:00.000 And it also helps to rewrite the neurochemistry and reboot the neuroendocrine system to let you actualize it and move it forward into your life.

00:21:09.000 So the psychedelics right now, the whole resurgence of psychedelic research is showing how well they work for the very aspects that psychiatry is really weak at.

00:21:22.000 Addiction recovery, treatment resistant depression, chronic severe PTSD, end of life transition issues.

00:21:31.000 All the areas that psychiatry is really stuck at, the psychedelics are very good at.

00:21:39.000 And there's a wide breadth of the psychedelics that are available.

00:21:43.000 And then we get really crafty in being able to recognize because of what this person is going through, what might be the best psychedelic to use for them in the right setting.

00:21:53.000 So in the right setting, you get this opportunity to really actualize your best self. 0.88

00:21:58.000 To realize what you weren't looking at, to face your shit, to work through that, and then to see the path of becoming even better. 0.97

00:22:05.000 Those are really good points. 0.99

00:22:07.000 The drug addiction one is a really good point.

00:22:09.000 The end-of-life transition is another really good point.

00:22:12.000 And PTSD, even, you know, traumatic stress, I mean, it could be as horrific as war or as seemingly simple but unbelievably traumatic as a breakup. 0.93

00:22:27.000 You know, there's some people that go through breakups and they think their fucking life is over. 0.75

00:22:31.000 They think it's over. 0.99

00:22:33.000 I mean, they think, like, I can't go on like this.

00:22:35.000 Like, this loss is too much for my soul to bear.

00:22:39.000 And then they do ecstasy and they go, oh, I'm gonna be fine. 1.00

00:22:42.000 That guy's an asshole. 1.00

00:22:46.000 Why was it even living with him in the first place? 1.00

00:22:48.000 Or, oh, she was ruining my life. 0.87

00:22:49.000 I didn't even realize she was ruining my life. 1.00

00:22:51.000 Oh my god, I'm just like a bitch. 1.00

00:22:53.000 I'm just a bitch clinging to this fucking ridiculous idea that this woman is gonna save me or this man is gonna save me. 1.00

00:23:00.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:23:00.000 We were talking just the other day about the prevalence of Of suicide in young teenage girls in certain communities, particularly in native cultures. 1.00

00:23:12.000 And there's studies that show that young adolescents, both girls and boys, but particularly with girls, they have a significant resolution of anxiety that's related to how they view themselves going through only one session of ayahuasca.

00:23:29.000 Wow!

00:23:31.000 That's incredible, man.

00:23:33.000 Wow.

00:23:34.000 So that's really, we're talking about like rites of passage, those ceremonies, those experiences really help people mature, self-actualize, be able to recognize who they really are and not have so much that's invested in.

00:23:47.000 And who they think they need to be and these relationships that when they fall away, like this crazy thing that happens with internet bullying online, and it just really shatters these young people's self-esteem, and they end up checking out.

00:24:03.000 That's too much.

00:24:04.000 That just completely collapsed their worldview.

00:24:08.000 They cannot imagine themselves going through that in a successful way, so it's better to check out.

00:24:14.000 They also can't imagine that this bullying is horrible as it is.

00:24:19.000 If you get through it and you gain perspective, it'll actually help you later in life.

00:24:26.000 Like you will now have tools to deal with shitty human beings that you may perhaps run into.

00:24:32.000 And, counter-intuitively, you will greatly appreciate the kind people around you in a way that you might not appreciate them. 0.87

00:24:40.000 It's like, people in LA don't appreciate the sun.

00:24:44.000 Right. 0.96

00:24:45.000 Bitches there every day. 1.00

00:24:46.000 Just nagging you. 0.99

00:24:48.000 Gotta put on your sunglasses. 0.98

00:24:49.000 You know, but go to Seattle, or go to fucking Columbus, Ohio in the winter, where every day is cloudy, gray, that gray sky winter thing. 0.98

00:24:58.000 The Buffalo winter. 0.97

00:25:00.000 You ever been to Buffalo, New York?

00:25:02.000 I mean, if it's the winter and you don't get any clouds, you're like, what is happening?

00:25:06.000 Look at the sky!

00:25:07.000 It's blue!

00:25:08.000 It's supposed to be blue! 0.99

00:25:10.000 But you just get used to that shit, and when you do see the sun, it's a magical creature. 0.99

00:25:17.000 That's come down to give you happiness in the form of vitamin D and... 0.99

00:25:20.000 Warmth.

00:25:21.000 Warmth.

00:25:22.000 Feels like love.

00:25:23.000 Yeah, the way it feels in your skin.

00:25:25.000 Yeah.

00:25:25.000 We're used to that.

00:25:26.000 Like, oh my God, it's so hot.

00:25:28.000 You know, we're used to that here.

00:25:29.000 We've been so effective at taking away all of the really challenging things and expecting not to have challenging things that I think it's going to take intention to intentionally put those back through rituals, through rites of passage, through these terrifying, scary ordeals that you have to go through.

00:25:45.000 In order to get used to that paradigm again.

00:25:48.000 I think we're getting to the point now where we're so good at removing the environmental ones, we're going to have to go with intention to put them back.

00:25:56.000 And even back in scary times, they had intentions to do that.

00:25:59.000 You go to some tribes who live in the jungle, which is a hard-ass place to live, and they're still sticking their hands in oven mitts of bullet ants. 0.84

00:26:07.000 They're still Fashioning bungee cords out of vines and moldy ropes and stuff and jumping off towers to show their fearlessness.

00:26:17.000 And even in our day, we have everything easy, so we have nothing environmental, and we're not doing anything else intentional.

00:26:23.000 Yeah, and this is definitely not to imply that bullying is in any way good.

00:26:27.000 No.

00:26:27.000 You know, it's awful.

00:26:29.000 People that are mean, I always wonder what that is when you see kids that are shitty to other kids. 0.93

00:26:36.000 You know, like you see that like the instinct that they have to be shitty or they see weakness and they poke at it and they push it. 0.89

00:26:45.000 It's not good.

00:26:47.000 But even in bad things, the counter to those bad things, you can somehow or another get benefit from it.

00:26:55.000 And that benefit will make you stronger.

00:26:57.000 And it's really fascinating, like what we were talking about, the sauna, or what we were talking about going through adversity in life.

00:27:03.000 Like all these things, it seems to be almost a law that the universe has.

00:27:10.000 The ebb and flow of things.

00:27:12.000 The push and the pull of things. 0.86

00:27:14.000 I mean, I don't think it's a fucking... 0.99

00:27:16.000 I don't think it's a coincidence that these bad motherfuckers keep coming out of Siberia, you know? 0.99

00:27:22.000 I mean, look at all these Ruslan Provodnikov, you know, these boxers that are coming out of the Soviet Union now, and especially Siberia. 1.00

00:27:32.000 Like, they're fucking monsters! 1.00

00:27:34.000 You know? 1.00

00:27:35.000 Kovalev. 1.00

00:27:35.000 These guys are monsters. 1.00

00:27:37.000 And they're coming out of Russia. 1.00

00:27:38.000 It's cold as shit, Russia. 1.00

00:27:40.000 So they develop a different kind of human being. 1.00

00:27:43.000 Because they're surviving all the time.

00:27:47.000 And in surviving, they're growing.

00:27:50.000 One of the traditions there in Siberia is to go swim in the river.

00:27:53.000 In a lot of places, they go swim in the river every morning, like in military cadet training historically.

00:27:59.000 The Siberian cadets would have to go in and jump in this freezing-ass water every morning to help.

00:28:07.000 Toughen them up.

00:28:08.000 I mean, they got that idea there.

00:28:10.000 And that's the healthy way to do it.

00:28:12.000 Obviously, bullying is this really insidious kind of, you know, psychological attack that's really hard to see and really hard to look at as a stress like that.

00:28:22.000 But yeah, I mean, building those things in your life.

00:28:25.000 It's going to be positive.

00:28:27.000 And that's what sports do for us.

00:28:30.000 Sports and the military are really the only way that we have access to these really readily here.

00:28:36.000 And I kind of think that for bullies even, the act of bullying is extremely damaging just to do it.

00:28:42.000 I mean, it only makes sense that it is, right?

00:28:45.000 That you are causing all these bad feelings for all these people.

00:28:48.000 That don't deserve it.

00:28:50.000 They didn't do anything to you.

00:28:51.000 And you're finding a weakness or finding a deficit in their strength and attacking it.

00:28:57.000 Well, you're doing it to yourself, you know, in the truth, you know, as the platinum rule would say, you're really doing it to you living a different life.

00:29:05.000 And that's really difficult for the higher self, you know, the conscious self to deal with because you're hurting yourself in a very real way.

00:29:13.000 Yeah, you don't appreciate yourself.

00:29:15.000 You don't appreciate who you are because you don't respect it. 1.00

00:29:18.000 Because you know you're kind of a bitch. 1.00

00:29:20.000 Fucking with people that don't deserve it. 1.00

00:29:22.000 But you know, it's a weird instinct that children have. 1.00

00:29:26.000 Because having children and seeing it on the playground, watching little boys push other little boys for no reason, watching how it goes down.

00:29:36.000 It's very bizarre behavior.

00:29:37.000 And I've been struggling with it recently.

00:29:41.000 Not struggling with it or analyzing it, it's a better sense.

00:29:45.000 Trying to figure out, when I do see it, like, what is...

00:29:47.000 Is there an evolutionary advantage to any of this?

00:29:51.000 Is there a reason why this exists? 0.98

00:29:52.000 Or is this just from the harsh days of old where you're just trying to find the weak wolf and kick it the fuck out of the clan? 0.92

00:29:59.000 Because if you don't, you know, the pack won't be strong. 1.00

00:30:02.000 You gotta get rid of all the bitches. 1.00

00:30:04.000 Do you cower when I come near you? 1.00

00:30:06.000 Are you cowering, you fucking f... 1.00

00:30:08.000 Get the fuck out of here. 1.00

00:30:08.000 You kick them out of that goddamn tribe and send them out into the woods to die on their own. 1.00

00:30:13.000 And I think it's awful, but I got to think that's why wolves do it. 1.00

00:30:19.000 When wolves sense some wolf that's going to fall apart under pressure, like, you fucking pussy. 1.00

00:30:26.000 We can't hunt moose with you. 1.00

00:30:29.000 You're going to get tired, you bitch. 1.00

00:30:31.000 Get the fuck out of here. 1.00

00:30:33.000 And that's exactly why humans have had these rituals before, you know, these different rites of passage. 0.99

00:30:38.000 Will this person buckle under pressure?

00:30:41.000 You know, will they fold when it comes to... 0.95

00:30:43.000 It's like that person you walk up to on a water slide and you wait in line for a goddamn hour with them and then they get to the top of the water slide. 0.96

00:30:50.000 I can't do it. 0.97

00:30:51.000 Let me down. 0.99

00:30:51.000 You're like, you gotta be fucking kidding. 0.99

00:30:53.000 I waited an hour to go down this thing and I'm not even excited about it. 0.97

00:30:56.000 Yeah.

00:30:56.000 You know, like that person, you gotta weed that out early.

00:30:59.000 Because what if you're on a, you know, a life and death situation?

00:31:02.000 They needed to know that.

00:31:03.000 If Duncan was here right now, you're talking about me, man!

00:31:06.000 Stop talking about me!

00:31:07.000 I'm right here!

00:31:09.000 Yeah, I mean, that was the old way.

00:31:12.000 And I think that's what we got to bring back, but we can't do it in these, like, anonymous Facebook bullying, cyber.

00:31:21.000 It's too complicated a stress for the human brain to handle because we're not equipped evolutionarily to handle that kind of stress.

00:31:29.000 Like, I think we should call each other to courage and call each other To face these different things, but not in that way, not in a mean way, not in a way like, come on, let's go, let's see what we can do together here.

00:31:42.000 Do it in a different way.

00:31:44.000 Yeah, the other thing about the idea of the cyber world, the idea of virtual worlds, is that the people that are playing, you know, fill in the blank, Halo, or any of these crazy games, getting really good at it, they're not experiencing the character development that someone would have if they got really good at,

00:32:05.000 you know, whatever, jujitsu.

00:32:07.000 Or, you know, fill in the blank, something incredibly difficult, you know, where you see, like, when you meet someone who's really, truly great at something, anything where they put in an incredible amount of hard work and out of that hard work has emerged as a truly unique talent that's something fascinating to watch.

00:32:26.000 Like, there's a quality that those people have that you don't get from cyber game players.

00:32:32.000 and that's weird I wonder what that is because it's obviously difficult to get really good at playing a video game it's obviously there's something rewarding about it because they love to do it they love to kick other people's asses in those video games but I don't necessarily think it translates into that character development in the real world like as in a personality sense and in fact There's like a lot,

00:32:59.000 I mean, when you talk about like people that are like cyber game players, one of the big characterizations, whether it's fair or not, is that they're really awkward dorks, right?

00:33:12.000 Like that's the number one way you think of, like someone who plays video games all day, oh Jesus Christ, what's this guy like to hang out with when, you know, get him outside?

00:33:21.000 And you're seeing a different type of player now.

00:33:25.000 I know some people we've worked with, they'll do yoga and they'll try to focus on that.

00:33:31.000 So you're starting to see a different type of that.

00:33:32.000 But I do agree for sure with your initial point.

00:33:35.000 And I think the idea is that real consciousness, its home is in the body.

00:33:41.000 People think of mind and consciousness and body as all separate.

00:33:44.000 Really, when you're truly conscious, it's when everything is...

00:33:48.000 Like sucked into one entity.

00:33:50.000 It's a true presence of being, where you're physically embodying your consciousness.

00:33:55.000 And when you're just using your mind and your thumbs, it's almost like you're separating yourself from a key element of consciousness, which is embodied consciousness.

00:34:04.000 So you're working on a level of mastery that's really very narrow.

00:34:09.000 That's a good point.

00:34:10.000 That's a really good point.

00:34:12.000 That must be what it is, right? 0.99

00:34:14.000 What it must be is like you're neglecting your body because you're sitting on a couch all day and your fucking back is hunched at the end of the day. 0.99

00:34:22.000 I mean, how many video game players have fucking horrible backs? 0.99

00:34:24.000 It's got to be a lot, right? 1.00

00:34:26.000 If you're playing all day, hunched over a computer, you're going blind, and your back is turned to shit. 1.00

00:34:32.000 Going blind from the masturbation because that causes blindness. 1.00

00:34:35.000 That too. 0.99

00:34:36.000 That's what I hear.

00:34:37.000 Yeah.

00:34:37.000 That's what Kellogg would tell us.

00:34:39.000 Do you ever deal with anybody?

00:34:39.000 I mean, I know you worked with people that have addictions.

00:34:42.000 Have you ever worked with people that have non-chemical addictions or non-chemical in the traditional sense, like video game addictions or gambling addictions?

00:34:51.000 Oh yeah.

00:34:52.000 I'm affiliated with an organization called Crossroads.

00:34:55.000 It's an Ibogaine treatment center.

00:34:58.000 And we're also building the first psychedelic research institute there.

00:35:02.000 When people go through Ibogaine, it rewrites the neurochemistry.

00:35:07.000 It reboots that whole pathway.

00:35:09.000 And that pathway is set up for an addictive profile.

00:35:12.000 It doesn't matter what the addiction is, it's the same chemical pathway.

00:35:17.000 And that addiction could be heroin, methamphetamine, cocaine, it could be work, sex, video games, whatever.

00:35:26.000 It's that same chemical pathway that's also associated with what Csikszentmihalyi called flow states.

00:35:33.000 It's that dopamine, neurochemical pathway.

00:35:36.000 So when you channel that focus, that prime directive into a productive way, that can elucidate the flow state and that flow states essentially like your prime focus on the current experience to the exclusion of everything else.

00:35:53.000 That's just like any kind of addiction that the mind can't rewrite.

00:35:57.000 It can't move away from.

00:35:58.000 So the definition of addiction is essentially like getting stuck in these repetitive loops with something as the focus.

00:36:05.000 Even in the midst of detrimental experience, you can't shift.

00:36:10.000 You can't break that cycle.

00:36:12.000 So it's doing something over and over and over even though you know that there's a bad consequence.

00:36:16.000 So is an addiction essentially almost like a side effect of the process that's involved in us getting good at something?

00:36:26.000 Because I've always found that in getting anything that I become obsessed with, anything that I really start wanting to get good at, it starts to permeate my life, oftentimes in an uncomfortable way, where it's going on.

00:36:42.000 Eddie Bravo and I used to talk about this all the time with Jiu Jitsu.

00:36:46.000 That you would have like This underlying operating system that was always doing jujitsu.

00:36:53.000 That you would be, if you're in a conversation with somebody and they wanted to talk to you about, well, what the Democrats got to do is, you know, highlight the fact that we've created all these new jobs.

00:37:02.000 You just start thinking about choking people. 0.99

00:37:04.000 It's always just thinking, like, this is boring as fuck. 0.99

00:37:06.000 I'm going to concentrate on positions in my head. 0.99

00:37:08.000 I'm going to nod my head.

00:37:10.000 But what's going on behind the scenes, the operating system, what's always on is jujitsu.

00:37:17.000 Almost everybody I know that is really good at jujitsu thinks like that.

00:37:21.000 They all talk about how jujitsu becomes almost like a metronome in the background.

00:37:28.000 That it's like constantly going on.

00:37:31.000 And one of the benefits of that is that you have this positive, really healthy, rewarding experience that you're obsessed with.

00:37:41.000 So you're addicted.

00:37:43.000 But you're addicted to something that's super beneficial.

00:37:46.000 So that differential being that there's a positive outcome versus a negative outcome.

00:37:53.000 So you could describe that positive outcome experience even though it might be an addiction because the mind's so focused on it.

00:38:00.000 It's essentially a flow state.

00:38:02.000 You just keep re-accessing that flow state.

00:38:04.000 Just reactivating something that, for whatever reason, the way it is engaging with your life and your mind is negative.

00:38:14.000 Like gambling addicts.

00:38:17.000 Like people who are gambling addicts, they just want that action all the time.

00:38:21.000 And that's one of the hardest addictions.

00:38:24.000 Gambling?

00:38:24.000 Gambling, because it's an intermittent reward.

00:38:27.000 You don't know what the outcome is going to be.

00:38:31.000 So sometimes it's positive, sometimes it's negative.

00:38:34.000 Looked from the right perspective, it's all negative because of the net loss.

00:38:38.000 And that's gamification too.

00:38:40.000 Video games, same thing.

00:38:41.000 You don't yet know what the outcome is going to be.

00:38:43.000 So there's so much engagement.

00:38:45.000 Heroin, cocaine, those kinds of substances, you generally know what you're going to get.

00:38:49.000 So you can avoid those because you've experienced it, you know what it is, you know the negative repercussions of it, you can step back.

00:38:57.000 Well, it keeps people in.

00:39:00.000 There's some physical components of those addictions, too.

00:39:03.000 Right.

00:39:03.000 And that's why heroin is so hard to kick.

00:39:06.000 And Ibogaine has like a 70% success rate in helping people kick heroin after one treatment.

00:39:13.000 That's pretty amazing. 0.97

00:39:14.000 That's pretty fucking amazing. 0.95

00:39:15.000 I know a good friend who has, with him was OxyContin, but essentially the same drug. 0.98

00:39:21.000 Right.

00:39:21.000 And he went to Mexico, took Ibogaine, kicked it instantly, and now he runs a treatment center down there.

00:39:29.000 For that very reason.

00:39:30.000 Yeah.

00:39:31.000 And the long-term predictor, just to put that in context, the long-term predictor is ongoing support.

00:39:37.000 So people have recovery coaching.

00:39:40.000 Some people do 12 steps.

00:39:41.000 But the recovery coaching is Ibogaine itself as an addiction interrupter.

00:39:45.000 What's the actual physical mechanisms that are going on?

00:39:50.000 Well, the psychedelic has a wide variety.

00:39:53.000 With Ibogaine particularly, it has an effect on the serotonin system, the dopamine system, and the opiate system or the opioid system.

00:40:01.000 It's one of the most complex interactions.

00:40:03.000 Most of the psychedelics operate on the serotonin system solely.

00:40:06.000 This Ibogaine acts on multiple systems across multiple fronts.

00:40:11.000 And so one of the reasons it's particularly good for heroin is because it has that unique profile of working on the opiate system.

00:40:19.000 What it seems to do is it goes in and scrubs the opiate neurons completely clean of the residue.

00:40:26.000 So when you look at the data, people go through no or very little of the withdrawal symptoms.

00:40:33.000 Wow.

00:40:34.000 Right.

00:40:35.000 And that's the biggest thing for people going through heroin on their own is to kick it because they're just deathly afraid of the withdrawal that's going to come.

00:40:43.000 So they just keep getting stuck in the cycle.

00:40:45.000 So if you can offer them something held in the right set and setting that gives them the opportunity to rewrite it with very little discomfort.

00:40:54.000 Very little discomfort. 1.00

00:40:56.000 You're full of shit there, doctor. 1.00

00:40:57.000 You're full of shit there. 1.00

00:40:59.000 They just compress all of the horror of any kind of come down from that into your 40-hour aboga experience. 1.00

00:41:09.000 Just a few hours?

00:41:10.000 You guys need to come together and...

00:41:13.000 Reach a consensus.

00:41:14.000 Is it a few or is it 40?

00:41:17.000 Iboga is 36 hours plus or minus.

00:41:20.000 For me, it was 40 hours both times.

00:41:22.000 Pretty intense.

00:41:23.000 Ibogaine is the primary alkaloid.

00:41:27.000 There's 12 or so primary alkaloids in Iboga, which is the plant root itself.

00:41:32.000 Ibogaine is the synthesized extracted primary alkaloid that's used.

00:41:37.000 Safer therapeutic window, easier to dose, easier to manage.

00:41:41.000 And it has a shorter half-life, so it's usually about 12 hours.

00:41:45.000 That's all.

00:41:45.000 Just 12 hours where it feels like you're in a high-voltage shed, and you're puking, and you're spinning, and there's a 1,000-pound pancake on you, and you're just hoping that this misery will end.

00:41:55.000 Please, what do I have to do in my life that I never have to do iboga again? 0.84

00:42:00.000 But it's also, you're examining, like, every aspect of iboga.

00:42:04.000 So for me, going through iboga, I didn't have a drug addiction.

00:42:07.000 I was kicking.

00:42:09.000 I wanted to know the psychospiritual implications, and I also was trying it on because clients that I kept interfacing with, I would do a lot of one-on-one work with clients, and I knew Iboga or Ibogaine was the right direction for them, and they would ask me, what's the experience like?

00:42:24.000 And as opposed to me saying, well, I've heard it's like X, Y, and Z, I need to actually go in the lab, try it on for size so I can speak about it first-person perspective.

00:42:33.000 So I did Iboga twice, and then when I came on board with Crossroads, they worked with Ibogaine, same kind of thing.

00:42:39.000 I needed to experience what it was like.

00:42:41.000 For me, actually, Ibogaine was more intense than Iboga, and for most people, it's the other way around.

00:42:47.000 But suffice it to say, when you know that you're...

00:42:51.000 Most people going through heroin or some kind of really bad addiction, they're at a crossroads.

00:42:56.000 And so, hence the name of the center.

00:42:58.000 They're at a crossroads where they have hit rock bottom.

00:43:02.000 And they know they're at that level of desperation that if they don't make a significant shift, then something really bad is going to happen, like they're going to die.

00:43:12.000 They're going to completely annihilate their entire family system, whatever. 1.00

00:43:17.000 So they're coming with some motivation.

00:43:19.000 So when you let them know that, yeah, the experience can be potentially difficult and At Crossroads, it's the safest Ibogaine experience that you can have anywhere because it's in a hospital clinical environment.

00:43:32.000 It's in Tijuana right next to Angeles Hospital.

00:43:34.000 There's doctors on call right next door.

00:43:36.000 There's nurses on staff in the room. 1.00

00:43:38.000 You're wearing a Holter monitor, 24-hour EKG monitor because people do die with Iboga and Ibogaine.

00:43:46.000 And usually it's because they weren't truthful and that they were using Something long-acting like Suboxone or Methadone when they came in, and you cannot be on a long-acting opiate when you take Iboga.

00:43:58.000 Bad news.

00:43:59.000 You can be on a short-acting, and then when that washes out, you start the Iboga or Ibogaine.

00:44:04.000 And if everything's clean on board, like they're not taking other drugs, not only in their psychiatric medications, the only other problem that people typically run into, which isn't very common, but it has happened, Maybe 1% of the time, people will have an arrhythmia or a heartbeat irregularity because it drops your blood pressure and it drops your heart rate.

00:44:26.000 And if you're not wearing a monitor and you're not really paying attention to what happens, then you can get in some trouble there.

00:44:33.000 So if you have a crash cart on site, it's a fairly clinical setting, then all those bases are covered.

00:44:37.000 So in that setting, it's extraordinarily safe.

00:44:41.000 And you offer the people opportunity to come through.

00:44:44.000 So when you're looking at it from a Western addiction medicine perspective, what are the numbers people go in?

00:44:50.000 What are the numbers of success rate people coming through an average rehabilitation setting like up in Malibu?

00:44:58.000 Those numbers are like maybe 15% plus or minus depending on the setting.

00:45:02.000 15% versus 60, 65, 70% depending on the setting with Ibogra Ibogaine.

00:45:08.000 That's a 400-fold increase.

00:45:10.000 And the difference being many factors.

00:45:14.000 The difference being that there's actually some physiological changes that this drug is doing to your body, and then also one inescapable fact of it is that these psychedelic experiences, pretty much all of them, have that insane transcendent moment where you are Whatever the world that you were living in before you took that drug you were kind of basing your own experiences like here's the range Here's a spectrum of experiences in life from my dog died to I got laid

00:45:44.000 You know the birth of my child.

00:45:47.000 This is the this is the wonderful.

00:45:48.000 This is the awful and then you part the doors To the psychedelic experience and it's just like you stepped outside like you thought the roof Was the ceiling of the universe you stepped outside and realize oh my god, it's infinite You know, it's like whoa So like the perspective change because the experience is so intense and so broad and so literally all-encompassing So you got those two things going on you've got the physiological change that something like Ibogaine can do and And

00:46:18.000 then you've got the actual experience itself, which is so transcendent, and none of those things are available in Malibu.

00:46:25.000 You go to...

00:46:26.000 I'm saying Malibu, but any of these...

00:46:28.000 I was watching...

00:46:30.000 You know what Periscope is?

00:46:31.000 This new thing that the kids do?

00:46:32.000 These wacky kids?

00:46:34.000 I was watching one yesterday.

00:46:35.000 I was just checking out different people's feeds and it was one from a rehab place, like a house where these guys are all living together in rehabilitation.

00:46:44.000 And I'm like, this is like a weird social support system that they're trying to...

00:46:49.000 And they were talking about how great it is to not be drinking and, you know, I'm getting my life in order.

00:46:53.000 And I'm like, this is like a very small shift that they're doing.

00:46:58.000 They try to cling on to this small shift and hang on and...

00:47:03.000 Blow fire, blow smoke, blow air on the fire, try to get those embers to become a flame.

00:47:09.000 Or you jump into lava.

00:47:12.000 That's the other option.

00:47:14.000 Yeah, right?

00:47:14.000 The thing about a boga, all these psychedelic experiences, and I've done many of a variety of different durations, from very short, couple minutes, to very long, like a boga.

00:47:25.000 Particularly with the plant medicines, it seems to know how long it has.

00:47:30.000 Like the half-life of the medicine seems to be something that's already calculated in your brain, and so you get messages depending on how long you have.

00:47:38.000 A lot of times it's like a remarkable fact that I've noticed.

00:47:42.000 But with a boga, you have so much time that a boga just really takes its time and relentlessly showing you all of the steps that you took to lead you to different situations that you're not happy with. 1.00

00:47:55.000 I mean, I remember when I did it the last time, it took me like, it spent about five hours showing me the hypothetical possible scenarios that I could go with my life that wouldn't be beneficial, that would be harmful to the world.

00:48:09.000 And it was like five hours of that, whereas like with ayahuasca, you'll get maybe, you know, half an hour of that, and then I'll be like, okay, but that's not reality.

00:48:16.000 This is it.

00:48:18.000 Like a boga has so much time that it just really beats these things to death. 1.00

00:48:22.000 So you won't even think about going down that road again.

00:48:25.000 Or if it's something that's incongruous in your life, like a relationship, you know, you can wrestle with it.

00:48:31.000 I wrestled, you know, in another Abog experience, I wrestled with a relationship I had for like eight hours. 0.91

00:48:37.000 And I'd say, maybe this way.

00:48:38.000 And I'd be like, nope, not this way, because of this.

00:48:40.000 And it would show me the reasons why my logic was flawed.

00:48:44.000 And then I just come back again, try another way.

00:48:46.000 It's like, nope, not that way because of this.

00:48:48.000 You see, you forgot point A, blah, blah, blah.

00:48:49.000 And it's just such a stern taskmaster when it comes to that. 1.00

00:48:53.000 And it has seemingly infinite amount of time to just go through all of your rationalizations, all your justifications, and be like, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. 1.00

00:49:01.000 Is it showing it to you in a visual sense? 1.00

00:49:04.000 Iboga is a funny one because it's not as visual as the other ones.

00:49:08.000 Like the DMT experience is particularly visual.

00:49:11.000 Iboga tends to be more thought-based.

00:49:14.000 And when a vision needs to, at least for me, when a vision needed to have a visual explanation, like it needed a visual cue, it would come.

00:49:22.000 But a lot of times it's just directly thought-based, almost like I was talking to a much smarter version of myself.

00:49:30.000 You know, it was a really interesting way that it interacts because the visions were pretty mild.

00:49:35.000 I would think the iboga in a sensory deprivation tank would be the ultimate.

00:49:40.000 Well, that might be a one to work up to.

00:49:45.000 And prior to that, because like oftentimes people ask me the question like, okay, I'm ready to have an experience.

00:49:51.000 Where do I start?

00:49:52.000 So step number one is float, and just float by yourself.

00:49:55.000 Because a lot of people haven't even floated yet and really looked at their stuff because, interestingly enough, it starts to promote our own DMT-like experience.

00:50:03.000 We see what's in the default mode network now comes online.

00:50:06.000 We're able to look at more introspective analysis and see what was just behind the curtain that we didn't notice was there, and now that comes onto the stage.

00:50:14.000 We can wrestle with that, we can be with that, see what comes up, make sure that we're okay with the unknown, that kind of sense of dissolving back into the void.

00:50:22.000 And then you can start stacking therapies, like doing something in the tank.

00:50:27.000 And so your more entry-level psychedelics would be like MDMA, DMT... Edible weed...

00:50:34.000 Marijuana...

00:50:37.000 As the next kind of entry point.

00:50:40.000 And then beyond that, then you get into psilocybin, I would put in that entry level point.

00:50:44.000 And then beyond that, you get into the second level, and that's more like the peyote, huachuma, San Pedro, ayahuasca, iboga.

00:50:52.000 And so it's nice to be able to know where people can start, how to progress them through.

00:50:57.000 That's a lot of the psychedelic research that's happening now is the correct screening to know who the experience is good for, who it's not good for.

00:51:05.000 People with a history of psychosis and mania, not good for.

00:51:09.000 People currently on psychiatric medications, not good for.

00:51:12.000 Because most of the medicines and psychiatric medications don't work well together and there's an energetic clash and you can have a real bad trip.

00:51:20.000 Where you could have physiologically dangerous things happen.

00:51:24.000 So, when we know, you know, we've got this whole arsenal to work with, and then it becomes alchemy knowing which medicine to use at which person at which time, and in which sequence, which order.

00:51:36.000 Like, what are your target symptoms?

00:51:38.000 If your target symptoms are anxiety associated with chronic pain, well great, then it might be something like Iboga is helpful, because Iboga is really helpful for pain.

00:51:49.000 Because it's associated with that opiate pathway.

00:51:53.000 And also, let's prep with flotation and let's integrate with flotation.

00:51:58.000 Because flotation itself is also very good for pain.

00:52:01.000 Just flotation by itself.

00:52:04.000 You start stacking therapies.

00:52:06.000 And I've seen clients and I've had clients that have...

00:52:08.000 That have done a series of seven to ten floats and all of a sudden now they're off of all their opiates before with resolution of their underlying symptoms, whether it's PTSD, anxiety, insomnia.

00:52:19.000 And then they do maintenance floats after that.

00:52:22.000 So two to three a week for like three or four weeks and then you do booster floats, like one a month.

00:52:28.000 And some of the psychedelics are kind of similar.

00:52:30.000 When you go through a big experience, you have a long period of integration, and then maybe you do a booster shot.

00:52:36.000 Now, the whole psychedelic experience here in the States is under a renaissance.

00:52:43.000 There's a lot of energy moving.

00:52:45.000 There's a lot of clinical trials coming up in really reputable centers, like the Hopkins study with psilocybin.

00:52:52.000 Massive!

00:52:53.000 That really put psilocybin back on the map.

00:52:56.000 In the scientific community because the study was so well designed and the outcomes were so amazing that you couldn't refute it.

00:53:06.000 94% of people who were psychedelically naive had one of the top five spiritual experiences that it ever had.

00:53:14.000 And that experience lasted 14 months out with no side effects.

00:53:19.000 You're like, holy cow, that's pretty amazing.

00:53:21.000 MDMA-assisted psychotherapy.

00:53:23.000 83% success rate for curing chronic severe PTSD after only two to three sessions of MDMA-supported psychotherapy.

00:53:32.000 So it's not just taking a drug and having your trip and all of a sudden now you come out the other side resolved.

00:53:37.000 No, it's like actually working with a trauma-trained therapist in a really supportive, safe environment to work through that because MDMA is so good at the de-armoring That happens when people are traumatized.

00:53:51.000 And the data is just so iboga with addictions and psilocybin even with addictions.

00:54:00.000 There's just a recent pilot study that came out.

00:54:02.000 80% of people with chronic addiction to tobacco Resolved after one time use of psilocybin.

00:54:11.000 Right?

00:54:12.000 So what's like the next second best thing that the allopathic medical community has for that?

00:54:16.000 What's like Nicorette gum at like 8% success rates.

00:54:21.000 You just went from 8% to 80%.

00:54:23.000 And oh, by the way, you just had a transformative mystical experience.

00:54:27.000 Yeah, that was the side effects. 0.99

00:54:30.000 You talked to spirit guides and saw some awesome shit. 0.94

00:54:33.000 You'll never forget that you'll tell people every time you see them. 0.99

00:54:37.000 Yeah.

00:54:37.000 You talk to God's CEO. Yeah, exactly.

00:54:40.000 I just don't understand how we are here in this day and age with the thousands of years of people who have been writing books.

00:54:51.000 It's just amazing to me that they've been able to suppress some of the most beautiful aspects of being a human being for so long.

00:54:59.000 And it seems like during our lifetime, all this stuff is emerging like some sort of a strange flower that refused to be stuffed under the dirt.

00:55:07.000 It's just the pop, you know, the buds are just popping through the surface of the ground. 0.88

00:55:12.000 No matter how much pressure was put on it, dropping, you know, rocks on it and stacking up shit and trying to hold it down with lies and nonsense and pharmaceutical drugs and lobbyists and all the pressure that they put to keep this stuff down. 0.67

00:55:29.000 And then Johns Hopkins study comes out, and it's like, well, you can't really refute. 0.92

00:55:35.000 I mean, these are like some of the best minds in the world when it comes to these subjects.

00:55:39.000 And then all the work that MAPS has done.

00:55:41.000 MAPS has been amazing.

00:55:43.000 And the Internet itself.

00:55:44.000 The Internet itself.

00:55:45.000 I mean, just the overwhelming amount of positive experiences, anecdotal as they may be, that people describe online.

00:55:53.000 It gives people this community to draw from that doesn't exist in schools.

00:56:00.000 It doesn't exist in most people's neighborhoods.

00:56:04.000 It doesn't exist where you normally do find information.

00:56:09.000 Look, if you want to figure out how to fucking frame a house, there's a hundred guys probably in your city that can show you how to do it. 0.57

00:56:17.000 If you want to figure out how to... 0.99

00:56:20.000 Contact a spirit guide and remove yourself from an addiction that you have to pornography or to gambling.

00:56:27.000 Good luck.

00:56:28.000 Good luck. 0.99

00:56:28.000 You've got to talk to some fucking guy who runs a church and maybe does good work and he wants 10% of your money and wants you to sing and talk about Jesus. 0.99

00:56:37.000 It's not going to work. 1.00

00:56:38.000 Or you'll end up with an amethyst wand in your ass. 1.00

00:56:40.000 That could happen too. 1.00

00:56:42.000 Not knowing what's going on the other way.

00:56:43.000 There's lots of people who will take advantage of that.

00:56:45.000 Of course.

00:56:47.000 This is certainly...

00:56:50.000 I think they've started something in motion that now can't be stopped.

00:56:53.000 What I think we're going to have to be careful of is, you know, with everything, there's a certain point where medicine becomes poison.

00:56:59.000 And that happens with every single psychedelic, you know, where it crosses the threshold where it's no longer beneficial and it's dangerous, or the setting is wrong, or the conflict is wrong.

00:57:09.000 And what's going to happen and what we need to be careful of is, That there will be these bad incidents that come out, just inevitably.

00:57:17.000 You hear about some of them from these pretty shady centers down in South America where people die during ayahuasca.

00:57:24.000 When that happens on U.S. soil, which inevitably it will, You know, there's going to be this backlash and they're going to make one final push to try and, you know, to try and stomp this out.

00:57:37.000 And we just have to, you know, really adhere to truth and stay calm and try and put out as much good science as possible because that's going to be the last card that they can play.

00:57:46.000 The numbers is too high.

00:57:48.000 The problem with the numbers of negative, the negative scenarios that they're depicting, there's...

00:57:54.000 The numbers of positive were so overwhelming.

00:57:57.000 Nothing is perfect.

00:57:59.000 Not a single thing that you do.

00:58:01.000 There's people out there that they can't eat fish.

00:58:06.000 They try to have shellfish.

00:58:08.000 Their throat closes up.

00:58:09.000 Doesn't make sense, but it just works that way.

00:58:12.000 It doesn't mean we should pull all the shrimp from all the markets.

00:58:14.000 It's just there's going to be negatives because we just have so much biodiversity.

00:58:19.000 There's so much difference in all the aspects that you were talking about that could be problematic.

00:58:24.000 People with psychosis, history of mental health issues and drugs that they've been taking for these mental health issues for long periods of time that have done All sorts of really weird things to brain chemistry that takes a long time to normalize from.

00:58:38.000 It's just those numbers.

00:58:40.000 I mean, as long as we're rational and honest about it, the overwhelmingly positive aspects of these therapies are undeniable.

00:58:48.000 They're just too good.

00:58:50.000 Yeah, the consumer-driven movement has pushed it into the limelight, and you've had people that kept the torch, like Rick Doblin with maps.

00:58:57.000 And the next evolution of that now With a few really different key organizations is to come up with a standard of a guideline for best practices.

00:59:08.000 And that's not to say that everybody has to adhere, you know, rock solid to these practices.

00:59:13.000 But generally, what are the guidelines for practices?

00:59:16.000 You should be screening clients for these issues.

00:59:18.000 And if anybody has these issues, then they shouldn't go into the experience.

00:59:22.000 This should be the general setting of the right environment.

00:59:26.000 And this should be the ethical altruistic intention that people are coming to that experience and facilitation that have.

00:59:36.000 That they're not doing it for profit and they're not doing it as some charlatan, that they have a background, they have a pedigree.

00:59:42.000 So it's like the E3 check.

00:59:45.000 What's their energy?

00:59:46.000 What's their experience?

00:59:47.000 This is in the facilitation role.

00:59:49.000 What's their energy?

00:59:50.000 What's your experience?

00:59:51.000 And do they have the ability to work as a spiritual EMT? Like if the shit goes down, do they know how to pull the ripcord? 0.99

00:59:59.000 If somebody's going through the midst, you know, in the midst of some really bad experience, do they know how to talk them down, bring the medicine down, intervene in a way so that the experience doesn't itself become traumatizing? 0.99

01:00:12.000 What about food addictions?

01:00:14.000 You know, it's interesting because you were talking about the most difficult addiction to quit being gambling.

01:00:21.000 Well, that's as far as behavioral addictions.

01:00:23.000 Behavioral addictions.

01:00:23.000 But as far as like neurochemical addictions itself, sugar is up there with heroin.

01:00:29.000 And some studies show that sugar is even harder to kick than heroin.

01:00:32.000 And that's also a little challenging.

01:00:34.000 It's kind of like an addiction to technology.

01:00:37.000 Food addictions are tricky because it's not like you're going to stop eating.

01:00:40.000 Right.

01:00:41.000 That's what I was going to bring up.

01:00:42.000 Right.

01:00:42.000 So there's a whole movement in a variety of addiction circles around moderation, even with alcohol.

01:00:50.000 There's a movement in moderation where, like, you know, the sponsor or the person helping coach somebody going through sobriety will go to the bar and they'll have one drink and they'll talk about what it's like to have one drink and then they'll leave together after only having like one or two drinks.

01:01:04.000 Without really reaching that point of significant detriment and be able to process that whole experience so that you're not trying to make this polarity statement like you went from this crazy addiction to now you can have anything.

01:01:19.000 And so if you're defining success, As being completely abstinent, well then maybe you're actually not appreciating the benefit of successive steps along the way.

01:01:30.000 Like if somebody has a heroin addiction and they're not taking care of their family and they can't hold a job, and they go through some kind of recovery program where now they're using something else as maybe a transition addiction, but they're holding a job now, they're better with their family and wife and kids.

01:01:46.000 There's very significant milestones and markers to where they have improved their life.

01:01:52.000 In my experience, that's success because you're moving towards ongoing improved benefit.

01:01:59.000 I had Dr. Andrew Hill on the podcast who has a similar sort of a treatment approach.

01:02:05.000 And one of the things that he does is they will go to a bar with a patient and have the patient have a drink and talk them through it and make sure that they are only having one drink and that they don't, you know...

01:02:18.000 Yeah, because the goal should be normalcy, not this shaky dam that if it leaks, the whole thing floods.

01:02:25.000 One day at a time.

01:02:26.000 Yeah, and everything just breaks.

01:02:28.000 You want to get to the point where you're so not addicted, you're like everybody else.

01:02:32.000 If someone cracks a really nice bottle of wine at dinner, you can say, yeah, sure, if you want to. 0.98

01:02:38.000 Not like, ah, if I have that wine, I'll be into the minibar, and then it'll be like that fucking Denzel Washington movie.

01:02:44.000 But isn't there physical aspects to addiction that have to be addressed with some people? 0.97

01:02:49.000 Totally.

01:02:50.000 Like some people really maybe should avoid alcohol almost entirely.

01:02:54.000 Well, some people have a genetic predisposition towards hypersensitivity to the effects of alcohol.

01:02:59.000 And you see that with Asian populations, particularly Asian women.

01:03:03.000 You see that in the Native American culture and population.

01:03:06.000 They have a...

01:03:09.000 A weakness in a particular enzyme that breaks alcohol down, alcohol dehydrogenase, and actually turns alcohol into acetaldehyde and it becomes this really toxic substance.

01:03:19.000 You have long-stream detriments and ramifications in neurochemical Complexity.

01:03:25.000 So you have a physiologic predisposition towards alcohol being really bad for you.

01:03:31.000 And then you have the addiction, neurochemistry itself, like we were talking about before.

01:03:35.000 And then you have everything underneath that, which is the psycho-emotional, psycho-spiritual implications, like what is empty from that person's life that keeps them addicted to a substance that they're trying to fill a void or numb a pain.

01:03:48.000 There's always these interplay of factors, and it's important to look at all of them.

01:03:53.000 And so, whether it's alcohol or we were talking before about sugar, sugar is one of the most addictive substances and it's really difficult to get completely away from.

01:04:04.000 You have to be really mindful about all the sugars that are added in fruit juice.

01:04:08.000 Fruit juice seems healthy, yet when you look at the sugar load, it's massive.

01:04:13.000 And my experience going with Ibogaine is that I didn't appreciate that I had this long-standing sugar addiction.

01:04:22.000 And looking back, I've had that for a long time.

01:04:27.000 And even looking back further, I know now where it came from because I just kind of like did this retrospective analysis.

01:04:33.000 I was in and out of the hospital for the first two years because I had recurrent pneumonia.

01:04:36.000 I was six weeks early.

01:04:38.000 And in recurrent pneumonia, they put you on a lot of steroids, and they put you on a lot of antibiotics, and it completely screws up your gut flora.

01:04:44.000 And it predisposes you to Candida a long time down the road. 0.93

01:04:49.000 And Candida feeds on sugar. 0.91

01:04:51.000 So after, you know, I was addicted to alcohol for a while, And kick that and then I became addicted to pot for a while and then I kicked that and then I became addicted to work and kind of more monastic practices, meditation, those sorts of things.

01:05:07.000 And I lived in the jungle and these kind of like extreme experiences but sugar was always in the background.

01:05:11.000 And then when I went through Ibogaine, I came out and I have like zero charge around sugar now.

01:05:19.000 Zero.

01:05:19.000 Because you recognize what it really is.

01:05:21.000 Because it shifted the neurochemistry.

01:05:24.000 So without even knowing going in that there was this addiction there because I just wasn't registering it consciously.

01:05:31.000 Sugar addiction for somebody with a weak metabolic load or maybe they're susceptible they have adrenal fatigue or they're susceptible to hold on to weight.

01:05:41.000 Maybe a sugar addiction is a really bad thing because now you can see that they've got this metabolic syndrome and they're moving into type 2 diabetes or whatever it might be.

01:05:49.000 For me, it was always kind of in the background, but it was always there.

01:05:53.000 Like, I have a sweet tooth that's insatiable.

01:05:55.000 If I kick it off, I go rampant.

01:05:58.000 Right?

01:05:59.000 And so, on the other side of Ibogaine, there's no charge on sugar now.

01:06:04.000 And I didn't even know that was going to come out the other side.

01:06:07.000 I just ended up, everybody was feasting on sugar at this party I was at like a few days later, and I had this kind of like, I was just, I just kind of looked at it and glanced away and I thought, whoa, that's different.

01:06:20.000 I remember that there would be this charge before.

01:06:24.000 And now there's nothing.

01:06:27.000 And so there's a whole thing that happens with addictive neurochemistry that might not necessarily be...

01:06:33.000 And that's all physiologic, right?

01:06:35.000 I mean, ultimately, at the end of the day, we're all energy.

01:06:39.000 We're like 99.997% energy.

01:06:41.000 This is just space.

01:06:42.000 So we're actually like these energetic beings and all these implications around that.

01:06:47.000 Depending on your spiritual and philosophical beliefs about what causes that to be the case, we're also in this 3D reality.

01:06:54.000 We have these monkey suits that we're wearing and sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

01:06:59.000 So if you have a candida overgrowth, it feeds on sugar.

01:07:02.000 It's good to get rid of that in order to release the sugar and you have to do that mindfully too because candida buffers heavy metals.

01:07:09.000 We were talking about heavy metals before.

01:07:11.000 So when people go on these crash no sugar diets, oftentimes the candida die off And it releases this massive toxic load on the system.

01:07:20.000 And that's why people feel shitty.

01:07:22.000 It's not necessarily because the Candida is going away, it's because of all the things that the Candida released.

01:07:27.000 So you have to be mindful about how you detox in stepwise fashions.

01:07:31.000 It can get a little bit complicated, but we can do it well.

01:07:34.000 So that's just a long way to say, for me personally, and I've seen this with other clients too, say that same thing, but until I had the experience myself, I really wasn't putting in a first-person perspective and really appreciated the fact that just by itself,

01:07:50.000 you can see this too with people coming off the streets on heroin, just by itself, there is a neurochemical addictive rewrite, a reboot in that system that helps people.

01:08:01.000 That's why it's an addiction interrupter.

01:08:03.000 There's a really good documentary called Ibogaine Rites of Passage.

01:08:07.000 I think it was maybe eight years ago or so.

01:08:10.000 And it's really well done, kind of like Neurons to Nirvana, which was more recent, also another really good one, that talks about that addictive neurochemical rewrite.

01:08:19.000 Floatation does that too, it's just not as big, and you have to do a lot of floats.

01:08:25.000 So when that neurochemical rewrite is happening and that interruption occurs, then you do the ongoing supportive work.

01:08:34.000 And so like addiction recovery coaching, like, okay, what was underneath that?

01:08:37.000 And through the experience, through this mystical experience, now you're reframing so much of the childhood trauma.

01:08:44.000 Trauma and addiction are extraordinarily interwoven.

01:08:49.000 Trauma, ADHD, and addiction are extraordinarily interwoven.

01:08:53.000 So when we understand the neurological implications, the trauma implications, the transgenerational implications, Right?

01:09:01.000 So if people have problems with their genetics, there's a whole now burgeoning field called nutrigenomics or detoxigenomics, where you do these genetic profiles and it shows you what your ability to detox certain things are.

01:09:15.000 So when we were talking about heavy metals, like where do heavy metals come from?

01:09:19.000 It's kind of like when people are exposed to the flu.

01:09:21.000 The flu is everywhere, but some people express it because some people's immune system is weakened.

01:09:28.000 They have a predisposition.

01:09:29.000 So heavy metals are everywhere.

01:09:32.000 Environmental toxicity is everywhere.

01:09:34.000 When you look at the fetal cord blood, baby just born.

01:09:39.000 The average number of toxins in that fetal cord blood?

01:09:42.000 220 average toxins.

01:09:44.000 Right out the gate.

01:09:45.000 60 of those are known carcinogens.

01:09:48.000 Right out the gate.

01:09:49.000 You're already born into this toxic soup.

01:09:53.000 So if we know what our genetics are, and Rhonda was talking about this in regards to...

01:09:58.000 Dr. Rhonda Patrick?

01:09:59.000 Yeah.

01:10:00.000 Because that was a great podcast she did with TBI, and she was talking about the predisposition towards Alzheimer's, you know, these ApoE type 4 genetics.

01:10:08.000 Well, if you put that genetic profile on top of a traumatic brain injury, now you just have an increase in your Alzheimer's risk tenfold.

01:10:18.000 Do you think that people are hesitant to look at sugar the same way you're describing it? 1.00

01:10:27.000 When you say that sugar is more addictive in some studies than heroin, people will go, that's fucking horse shit. 0.99

01:10:34.000 But it's because the effect of sugar doesn't have the profound effect on the body that heroin does. 1.00

01:10:39.000 The actual effect.

01:10:40.000 But I think people might confuse that with the addictive properties of it. 0.99

01:10:45.000 Because I know a lot of fucking people that are addicted to sugar, and they don't want to admit it, and they want to pretend that it's just normal. 0.99

01:10:53.000 But they take a day off of sugar, and they feel like they did a great thing. 0.99

01:10:57.000 A day, you know?

01:10:59.000 I mean, I don't know if heroin junkies need it every day, if they could take a couple of days off. 1.00

01:11:05.000 But I've seen friends that eat candy or drink soda, and those motherfuckers, it calls them. 1.00

01:11:12.000 It calls to them. 1.00

01:11:13.000 Sometimes after every meal.

01:11:14.000 After every meal, they have to finish it with something sweet.

01:11:17.000 They have to have a dessert. 0.82

01:11:18.000 And I've felt myself go in and out of these modes where it's like, I want a piece of chocolate or something after...

01:11:25.000 Almost every meal.

01:11:27.000 And then I'll have to be like, whoa, whoa.

01:11:29.000 What is that?

01:11:30.000 Why am I so compelled to do that?

01:11:33.000 And the more stressed I am and the more I am doing things just kind of in autopilot, the more I just do that without even thinking.

01:11:41.000 If I've been in a recent medicine journey or if I've gone floating or if I've kept up with my meditation practice well...

01:11:47.000 Yeah.

01:12:07.000 That that's, you have to halt the momentum with what the Native Americans would call the sacred silence, which is anything that brings you to a point of presence where you can really access free will and just kind of stop all this momentum that's going on. 0.85

01:12:21.000 Which is why the tank is so great.

01:12:23.000 The tank is the ultimate.

01:12:28.000 I'm reading this book right now by Tom Brown called Awakening Spirits, and he gives this really cool little fable that explains it.

01:12:36.000 I'll tell the fable here.

01:12:38.000 There's this guy who lives in the woods with a wizard, and this wizard has a demon that can accomplish any task.

01:12:44.000 So the guy wants to capture this wizard and get the demon because he wants to accomplish any task.

01:12:49.000 So he finds the wizard in meditation down by the stream, throws a rope around him, cinches it tight, and the wizard looks at him and says, you've come for my demon, haven't you?

01:12:58.000 He says, yes, I've come for the demon.

01:12:59.000 Give it to me or I won't let you go.

01:13:01.000 He says, that's fine, I'll give you the demon, but...

01:13:04.000 I'll have to tell you, the demon will do anything you want, but you have to keep it busy.

01:13:08.000 If you don't keep it busy, it will grow angry, it'll grow hostile, it'll seek to destroy you.

01:13:12.000 He says, fine, fine, no matter what, whatever, I'll keep it busy, there's plenty of stuff to do.

01:13:16.000 The wizard says, sure, the demon will be waiting for you back at your house.

01:13:18.000 So, he goes back to his house, and there's the demon.

01:13:22.000 It's a nice, humble servant.

01:13:24.000 He says, what can I do for you, master?

01:13:26.000 He says, oh, go fetch me a cup of water.

01:13:28.000 And the demon goes out and comes right back with a cup of water.

01:13:31.000 He says, it is done.

01:13:32.000 He drinks the water.

01:13:33.000 He says, what else would you have me do?

01:13:35.000 He says, ah, go make me a feast.

01:13:37.000 Go hunt some game and make me a feast.

01:13:39.000 So the demon goes out and makes him a feast.

01:13:42.000 Comes back.

01:13:43.000 It is done.

01:13:43.000 And even before he could finish eating it, the demon starts growing more angry and bigger and says, what will you have me do?

01:13:50.000 What will you have me do?

01:13:51.000 He says, ah, ah, build me a new house.

01:13:53.000 Okay.

01:13:54.000 So the demon goes off.

01:13:55.000 He gets a moment of rest.

01:13:57.000 The demon comes back and says, it is done.

01:13:59.000 The man looks up.

01:13:59.000 Sure enough, there's the house built.

01:14:01.000 And he runs out of things.

01:14:02.000 He starts to panic.

01:14:03.000 He runs out of things to do.

01:14:05.000 So, he's, you know, freaking out.

01:14:08.000 He runs back to where the wizard was.

01:14:10.000 He says, wizard, I can't stop.

01:14:12.000 I can't give the demon enough things to do.

01:14:15.000 And the wizard says, you know, with compassion, says, pull a hair from your head and tell the demon to straighten the hair.

01:14:21.000 And he says...

01:14:23.000 Okay, I guess I'll try that.

01:14:24.000 So he runs back and at this point the demon is fully out of control.

01:14:27.000 It's destroying his house.

01:14:29.000 It's destroying all the things that he loves about his house.

01:14:31.000 So he pulls the hair from his head and he says, straighten this hair.

01:14:35.000 And so the demon gets the hair and says, ah! 0.93

01:14:38.000 Tries to straighten it and the hair goes back to curly.

01:14:40.000 Tries to straighten it, the hair goes back to curly.

01:14:43.000 Tries to straighten it, the hair goes back to curly.

01:14:45.000 And all of a sudden the demon shrinks in size.

01:14:48.000 And so in this fable, the demon is our minds, and our minds are constantly requiring, you know, what will you have me do?

01:14:54.000 What will you have me do?

01:14:55.000 And many of these techniques that we use, they liken to the hair.

01:15:00.000 It's something that allows the mind, gives it a moment of distraction, gives it something to occupy it, puts it to sleep, so that we can use the mind as a servant instead of our master.

01:15:12.000 And so all of these things, from meditation to floating to psychedelics, you know, they're hairs.

01:15:17.000 Even nature itself is in its way a hair, because if you need nature to find that calm, that's, you know, that's the hair.

01:15:25.000 You need that walk in the mountains.

01:15:27.000 And some hairs are better than others, obviously.

01:15:29.000 I love the story, up to the hair part.

01:15:32.000 I think whoever wrote that story needed to go back for a second draft.

01:15:36.000 I like what they're saying.

01:15:38.000 I catch it, but straighten the hair out. 1.00

01:15:40.000 This fucking thing can build houses. 1.00

01:15:42.000 It can't straighten the hair out. 1.00

01:15:43.000 It's a goddamn demon. 1.00

01:15:44.000 It has powers. 1.00

01:15:45.000 Right. 1.00

01:15:46.000 I feel like it should have told it, what I would like you to do is shut the fuck up. 1.00

01:15:49.000 How about concentrating on shutting the fuck up and doing nothing? 1.00

01:15:52.000 That's what I'd like you to do. 0.99

01:15:54.000 That's your task.

01:15:55.000 Your task is to do nothing.

01:15:56.000 Well, Tom Brown, if you're listening, you need to rewrite your story. 1.00

01:15:59.000 Rewrite that shit, son. 1.00

01:16:01.000 That's old shit that was written a long time ago. 1.00

01:16:03.000 When people had a lot of curly hair. 1.00

01:16:04.000 Well, they wrote dumb shit. 1.00

01:16:05.000 They wrote Noah and the Ark, you know? 1.00

01:16:07.000 Two of each animal. 0.99

01:16:09.000 Get the fuck out of here. 0.99

01:16:10.000 Animals eat animals. 0.99

01:16:11.000 What are they doing on that boat?

01:16:13.000 What are they doing when they get off the boat? 1.00

01:16:16.000 You fucked up. 1.00

01:16:17.000 The guys made bad stories. 1.00

01:16:19.000 I like that the idea though because it is kind of true that like especially ambition You know ambition can get out of control It's like we were discussing earlier today about rich people and there's a certain amount of rich people that never feel like you know what I've made plenty of money I don't have to gouge and and fuck over all the the people that I do business with and try to rip off everyone who is You know,

01:16:47.000 who's working with me.

01:16:49.000 You could have some sort of a more peaceful relationship with them if you're less concerned about the money.

01:16:57.000 And you brought up a really interesting point.

01:16:59.000 It's the only thing they're keeping score in.

01:17:01.000 It's the only thing where they have, like, a number system or a...

01:17:07.000 You could look up on the board.

01:17:09.000 Like, look, we're making progress.

01:17:11.000 Look, we have a quantifiable progress report up on the board.

01:17:15.000 Right.

01:17:16.000 Those things become a part of who you are as a human being, how you interface with this reality and your self-worth and the way you appreciate yourself and the way you feel about yourself.

01:17:29.000 Your confidence is oftentimes based entirely on how those numbers are moving. 0.72

01:17:35.000 And when it's all just about business, you know, about selling computers or whatever the fuck you're doing, like Steve Jobs, I think, completely lost the script.

01:17:44.000 I mean, you're talking about a guy who got into this idea of creating computers and figuring out something to fix the world through psychedelics.

01:17:54.000 He got into it through LSD. And these LSD experiences that he had, he said, were some of the most powerful experiences of his life.

01:18:02.000 Well, what did it lead to? 0.97

01:18:04.000 Well, it led to a guy who was a fucking nut who was working 20 hours a day just making computers all the time and trying to stop the competition and shut down anyone that would oppose him and... 0.99

01:18:16.000 Yelling at his employees screaming at them even for not working as hard as he worked like Not recognizing that they're just individuals that are working for him. 0.98

01:18:24.000 They're not going to share that same sort of psychotic passion Yeah, I mean, I think we're all hungry for more.

01:18:31.000 We're insatiable creatures.

01:18:32.000 We require more air.

01:18:34.000 We require more food.

01:18:35.000 We require more water.

01:18:37.000 We're generally insatiable beings, and we require progress.

01:18:40.000 You know, that's one of the things.

01:18:41.000 We require puzzles.

01:18:42.000 And the problem is that there's a hunger inside ourselves that oftentimes we don't know where the mouth is to feed it.

01:18:51.000 And that's this true peace, this Alignment and reconciliation with our consciousness.

01:18:57.000 That whatever higher self that is, call it spirit, call it whatever you want.

01:19:00.000 I prefer to call it your consciousness.

01:19:03.000 And the problem is that it's really close to the other stomachs, but it's not it.

01:19:07.000 So people try to feed it with accomplishments, with money, and they feed it with Relationships and status and all of these other things, but they're not actually nourishing what that real hunger is.

01:19:19.000 And that's the hunger to be what we're capable of being on a true consciousness level and a being that can help make the lives of everyone else around us better, you know, improve the quality of life for the earth and everybody around.

01:19:33.000 Yeah, it's so hard to grasp if you're not in that mindset.

01:19:40.000 It's so hard to leave the momentum of your current mindset, whether it's a current mindset that loves to gamble or the current mindset loves to stuff your fat face with cake.

01:19:50.000 Whatever it is, those mindsets, those patterns of behavior are incredibly difficult to escape from.

01:19:58.000 And it's one of the reasons why I wanted to ask you about food addictions, because it seems to me that I don't really have a food addiction, but I would imagine that they're probably one of the hardest to kick because everybody has to eat.

01:20:11.000 Totally.

01:20:11.000 You have to eat?

01:20:12.000 Yep. 0.99

01:20:13.000 So, while you're eating, you're like, yeah, this celery is good, but fuck, it would be awesome if I had some chocolate ice cream right now with some whipped cream and chocolate fudge. 0.99

01:20:24.000 You know, those hole-filling things. 0.98

01:20:30.000 Longing, lustful, sort of intense cravings that some people have towards food.

01:20:36.000 I've seen friends that have food addictions that when they do get that food, like, you know, we're maybe driving somewhere, maybe we're hungry, maybe we just landed and we're on our way from the airport to get food. 0.89

01:20:47.000 When they finally get that food, it's like a fucking guy who's been holding his breath at the bottom of the ocean. 0.94

01:20:52.000 They can't have... 0.99

01:20:56.000 It's like like you just you just did something like you you kept yourself from my precious for so long then when you finally in the in the presence of it you just Engorge in it. 0.97

01:21:08.000 We fucking forget to breathe. 0.99

01:21:09.000 You're not breathing. 1.00

01:21:11.000 I've seen guys eat where they're not breathing You're not, like, taking a bite.

01:21:18.000 You were fine five minutes ago. 1.00

01:21:20.000 You were beating, your heart was beating, you were breathing, you were walking your feet, and all of a sudden that chicken parm sub comes your way, and you're just stuffing it into your fucking maw. 1.00

01:21:31.000 That's a weird addiction, man. 0.99

01:21:33.000 It's a weird addiction and that imbalance of massive necessity.

01:21:39.000 It's necessary to get it in me right now, even though it's not really.

01:21:43.000 Yeah, food addiction is one of the trickier ones.

01:21:47.000 And not everybody's going to do a psychedelic, right?

01:21:49.000 So for the vast majority, not everybody's going to climb Everest.

01:21:52.000 And when you climb Everest, it's going to have a map and a team and a guide and all that stuff.

01:21:57.000 Don't go there when there's an earthquake, either.

01:22:00.000 Right.

01:22:00.000 Yeah.

01:22:01.000 Set and setting, right?

01:22:02.000 Same thing.

01:22:03.000 So what are most people going to do?

01:22:05.000 Well, when you transition off of something that's so ubiquitous, it's super helpful to have motivation because it's not going to be an easy journey.

01:22:14.000 It's super helpful to have a guide and a plan, and it's super helpful to integrate that plan and stay, you know, stick to it.

01:22:21.000 So sugar, there's a, JJ Virgin is a really well-known author in the whole addiction realm, particularly in regards to sugar.

01:22:30.000 She's got a pretty successful plan. 1.00

01:22:32.000 Basically, it entails stepping down.

01:22:36.000 And then transitioning from sugars that are really crappy to sugars that are better and then less of those sugars that are better to eventually on an extraordinarily or no sugar diet.

01:22:46.000 So you gradually step that down.

01:22:49.000 And outside of having a really good motivation, sometimes people won't stay with it.

01:22:54.000 Like, oh, this is just too hard.

01:22:56.000 But if your motivation is like, wow, I just went to the doctor and I've got like, you know, 90% stenosis on one of my heart arteries and I'm really close to having another heart attack or I'm morbidly obese and I just got that major self-reflection about how my life's just horrible right now or I'm in this,

01:23:15.000 you know, suicidal depression or whatever people's motivation is, that crisis point can actually help people motivate them to a new trajectory.

01:23:25.000 So that's why I often have you here with anybody going through an addiction, particularly with alcoholics, they haven't hit rock bottom.

01:23:32.000 And once you've motivated and you've come up with a plan, whatever that plan is, to be able to stick to it is also important then to have ongoing support, especially if these are dangerous addictions.

01:23:43.000 Like my sister committed suicide a year and a half ago after she relapsed on alcohol and no one saw it coming and she shot and killed herself.

01:23:54.000 And it was a really big shock.

01:23:57.000 And it really helped remind me of the importance of ongoing support and being consistently interfacing with conscious people in our family and supportive tribe and our brothers and sisters,

01:24:12.000 like really watching out for each other, really checking in, making sure there's not anything going on on a deeper level, having that honest inventory Versus just playing on the surface and ignoring everything that's in the background.

01:24:25.000 And this life is precious, right?

01:24:28.000 So when we engage it in a good way and we're becoming our best self, then we have the opportunity to really create massive and beneficial change in the world.

01:24:37.000 And many people are playing on the surface and we don't exactly even know how to get in touch with ourselves or what we want to do or what our mission is here in life.

01:24:46.000 And so, coming back to that whole addiction rewrite, there's steps, there's very clear steps along the path.

01:24:54.000 And sugar is one of those that is because it's so ubiquitous, or like technology.

01:24:59.000 I used to help run a clinic called Alternative to Meds in Sedona, and another place called The Sanctuary in Sedona.

01:25:06.000 Two different centers, but often times people come for addiction recovery.

01:25:10.000 And one of the trickiest ones that we ever saw was this addiction to technology.

01:25:15.000 Whether it's pornography or just being on the internet for so long or whatever kind of addiction profile in the technology arena because it's like sugar.

01:25:24.000 It's so ubiquitous.

01:25:25.000 It's not like you're going to just say no and I'm never going to do that again.

01:25:28.000 So at that point it's even, coming back to that moderation plan, it's even more helpful to have an ongoing support System and person in place and recovery coach move you through that process so Sugar is one of those that because it's a physiologic addiction the body does get used to it or caffeine it does get used to it so if people are jacked up on coffee you transition a black tea and you transition a green tea and you transition to no caffeine Really set somebody up for success versus saying,

01:25:58.000 well, you're on coffee, then stop at cold turkey and suffer for, you know, a week to 10 days.

01:26:04.000 Most people aren't going to want to do it that way.

01:26:05.000 And it doesn't actually have to go that way.

01:26:07.000 You can actually come up with a pretty successful plan.

01:26:10.000 You just have to be rock solid and committed to it.

01:26:12.000 When you're talking about Candida and gut bacteria, when you try to help someone get off that, how much emphasis do you put on probiotics?

01:26:21.000 Massive.

01:26:22.000 Massive.

01:26:23.000 Because there's going to be a die-off, and that die-off and that toxicity that the Candida is going to release, or if you're clearing parasites, same thing.

01:26:32.000 So parasites are another buffer, and we have grown, and we were talking about this before, we've grown over generations in traditional cultures to be symbiotic with parasites in our environment.

01:26:47.000 Like, we live together.

01:26:48.000 And you see these traditional cultures that are very untouched by Western food, and by Western marketing, and by Western influence.

01:26:58.000 And when you look at their microbiome or you look at their gut flora, they have the most rich and diverse gut flora.

01:27:05.000 And the ones that we usually have in like probiotic strains are just a fraction of everybody who's playing.

01:27:12.000 And so you've got these massively complex and extraordinarily sophisticated Gut probiotic populations that help us metabolize and even produce a lot of the micronutrients that we need for our most vital living.

01:27:32.000 And when you look at the long-term ramifications of being able to re-infiltrate, and so there's this whole movement now around fecal transplants and being able to identify somebody who's got a really healthy microbiome or healthy gut flora.

01:27:46.000 They have a healthy neurological system.

01:27:49.000 They're just generally vital.

01:27:51.000 As a source for a potential gut fecal transplant, and when you look at people who are kind of the opposite of that, they have long-standing irritable bowel syndrome or Crohn's disease or some kind of autoimmune infection, there's a whole science around using parasites as actually a beneficial step.

01:28:12.000 It's called helminthic therapy.

01:28:13.000 We actually receive hookworms.

01:28:17.000 Into the system and the hookworms kind of move everything else out and lower the inflammatory load and help to rewrite some of that autoimmune cascade.

01:28:27.000 So then once that autoimmune cascade is rewritten, then you bring in the healthy probiotics.

01:28:34.000 So there's a whole science to the gut-body and mind interface.

01:28:41.000 That's why there's a really good book I think by getting Gerson called The Second Brain.

01:28:46.000 And it's this whole deep scientific look.

01:28:50.000 At the gut-brain connection and how many of the neurotransmitters and what build the neurotransmitters, that actually starts in the gut.

01:28:59.000 Like most of the serotonin system comes from the gut.

01:29:02.000 It doesn't come from the brain.

01:29:03.000 It's produced in the gut and it's transported to the brain for activity. 1.00

01:29:07.000 So people that talk about feeling like shit, it's because they're full of shit. 1.00

01:29:14.000 Right, so we need to actually start with the gut. 1.00

01:29:16.000 Isn't it amazing how much diet and what you take into your body has an effect on your mind itself?

01:29:23.000 I mean it really really truly is amazing how much what you put into your body has an impact on how your brain functions and the fact that we never get taught that our bodies are essentially A biological ecosphere.

01:29:39.000 I mean, your bodies are essentially not one thing.

01:29:43.000 Your bodies are like a host of untold billions of little tiny microscopic life forms that exist.

01:29:53.000 And if they're in an unhealthy state, you'll be in an unhealthy state.

01:29:56.000 But if they're in a healthy state, you'll feel better.

01:29:59.000 The studies that they've done on probiotic gut content and the effect that it has on depression...

01:30:05.000 Massive.

01:30:07.000 It's insane. 0.98

01:30:08.000 Rat massive.

01:30:09.000 Anxiety too, right? 0.97

01:30:11.000 You have like a healthy rat population, an anxious rat population.

01:30:15.000 You take out their poop and you transplant it, you just turn the healthy rats into anxious rats and the anxious rats into healthy rats. 0.99

01:30:22.000 Well, in all fairness, you're fucking with their butt and sticking poop in there and there's a lot going on. 1.00

01:30:26.000 I get anxious. 1.00

01:30:27.000 External factors.

01:30:31.000 Like, I was fine. 1.00

01:30:32.000 They stuck a metal rod up my ass, man. 1.00

01:30:34.000 That's nothing to do with the poop you put in there. 1.00

01:30:36.000 Like, I'm wondering when the next fucking chew is going to drop. 0.99

01:30:38.000 And we haven't gotten sophisticated yet in being able to, like, measure, like, how rats feel about that. 0.98

01:30:43.000 We have to be able to press a button and freeze them in time so they don't know what we're doing to them.

01:30:49.000 You know, it's an interesting thing because there's a study that was done on rats with cocaine.

01:30:53.000 It's a very famous study.

01:30:55.000 The difference between cocaine and heroin and rats, and that if you give these rats cocaine, they'll do cocaine until they die. 0.99

01:31:01.000 The problem with that study has been brought up, I forget who it was on the podcast that brought it up, was that you're talking about rats in a fucking cage. 0.99

01:31:10.000 What else is there to do? 0.97

01:31:12.000 The cage itself is a part of the study.

01:31:14.000 And the follow-up study to that showed that when they're put in a rat park, And they're still given unlimited supply of cocaine.

01:31:22.000 So, in isolation, rats with unlimited supply of cocaine, more than 75% will be heavy users and a lot of lethality.

01:31:31.000 When that same unlimited supply of cocaine is put in the setting of what's called a rat park, Where now you're like hanging out with a rat friend. 0.99

01:31:38.000 You got rat hookers. 1.00

01:31:39.000 You got rat clubs. 1.00

01:31:41.000 The rat ghetto. 0.89

01:31:42.000 There's a rat softball game going on. 0.91

01:31:45.000 You got all these options, right? 0.54

01:31:47.000 The rat joggers. 1.00

01:31:48.000 You got mouse racing. 1.00

01:31:49.000 You got all kinds of shit. 0.99

01:31:50.000 And when you've got all this great stuff and stimulation around you, you've just went from over 75 heavy users to less than 25% heavy users and no lethality. 1.00

01:32:02.000 Right?

01:32:03.000 So you, because of the social stimulation.

01:32:06.000 So addiction is about connection.

01:32:08.000 Life is about connection.

01:32:09.000 Right?

01:32:10.000 So that ability to connect to like a stimulating environment, the social milieu, significantly drops.

01:32:19.000 The drug use, even if you have the same amount.

01:32:23.000 And same thing with Portugal, when they legalized all drugs.

01:32:29.000 And that would be...

01:32:30.000 Decriminalized, I think, right?

01:32:31.000 Yeah.

01:32:31.000 Decriminalized...

01:32:32.000 Can't sell them, but...

01:32:33.000 Yeah.

01:32:33.000 Sorry.

01:32:34.000 Good.

01:32:34.000 Yeah.

01:32:34.000 Right.

01:32:35.000 So when decriminalization happened and they shifted all their money from the war on drugs into social infrastructure and started to boost up the social milieu and started to destigmatize the addiction Nomenclature and that label,

01:32:51.000 like something's wrong with you.

01:32:52.000 Like, actually, let's talk about what's going on in your social arena and how we can help that.

01:32:57.000 It was a complete rewrite.

01:32:59.000 And drug use went down.

01:33:01.000 Lethality went down.

01:33:03.000 So, we're recognizing just more and more in these, like, we as these, like, you know, monkeys walking around in these suits, we are built for a connection.

01:33:13.000 And that's why, you know, the first part of our whole discussion today around people doing, you know, thumb desk jockey and getting really absorbed into that whole gamification arena and the whole video gaming industry, I get concerned about the social developmental ramifications.

01:33:30.000 Like, what's the potential end result?

01:33:34.000 And does the...

01:33:37.000 Is that beneficial for the evolution of our species, so to speak? 0.97

01:33:43.000 Or is it going to end up being like idiocracy, where generations down the road, we just get dumber and dumber, and then the president is a WWF title holder.

01:33:54.000 I think it really just depends on just how much addiction you have, whether it crosses that threshold. 0.95

01:33:59.000 Because I've played a lot of video games.

01:34:00.000 They kind of sucked back when I was a kid.

01:34:02.000 But, you know, it was always the balance was, alright, play some video games and then run around outside, play basketball or kick a ball around or do whatever. 0.70

01:34:10.000 But I played, I mean, I played a good amount.

01:34:12.000 There was days I'd play six, eight hours of Dragon Warrior or Final Fantasy or one of these super old school games.

01:34:19.000 Yeah, but in the big grand scheme of things, you were probably doing much more athletics than social.

01:34:23.000 Right.

01:34:23.000 But still, it was just about balance.

01:34:25.000 And I think, again, that same message, if we demonize video games, the kids are going to be like, fuck you, because they know that that's inherently not the problem. 0.99

01:34:33.000 The problem is identifying when something good, like sex, becomes something not good, like addiction to sex, if that thing is even real. 0.99

01:34:41.000 I mean, I imagine it is.

01:34:42.000 Totally.

01:34:43.000 Sex addiction is extraordinarily strong.

01:34:45.000 I think this is an addiction to washing your hands.

01:34:47.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:34:48.000 I mean, people have addictions to everything.

01:34:49.000 I mean, there's people that have addictions to...

01:34:51.000 They really get physically upset if they step on cracks in the sidewalk.

01:34:56.000 Right.

01:34:56.000 This is more like an OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder kind of complex.

01:34:59.000 But don't you think that there's some sort of an addiction property to that?

01:35:02.000 Like that you're addicted to having a clean floor?

01:35:06.000 OCD is another really difficult one to rewrite.

01:35:10.000 And, interestingly enough, when you look at the studies, the antheogens and the psychedelics, they come in again.

01:35:17.000 To help rewrite the neurochemistry, that's a bit more serotonin-driven and not so much dopamine-driven.

01:35:23.000 There's some cross overlap.

01:35:24.000 But that's more of an anxiety spectrum disorder versus a primary addiction disorder because those ritualized behaviors have to be done in order to arrest some underlying compulsion and need for perfection, a need to have a corrective experience,

01:35:40.000 some kind of underlying need.

01:35:42.000 And so the energy around it is a little bit different, but at the same time, The intervention for success and recovery from that might be pretty similar.

01:35:51.000 Because everybody's a little bit different.

01:35:53.000 When you look at the data, people that have significant anxiety, this actually came up with floating too.

01:36:00.000 Two years ago, Justin Feinstein talked about, at the float conference, he was talking about the benefits of flotation for anxiety.

01:36:08.000 And people with generalized anxiety disorder after 10 floats had significant reduction in their symptoms, like by the order of like 30%.

01:36:15.000 And people with obsessive compulsive disorder, significant improvement in symptoms when going through a psychedelic experience like ayahuasca.

01:36:26.000 So you've got these, again, really novel treatments and therapeutics.

01:36:30.000 And honestly, more people are going to float than are going to do psychedelics.

01:36:35.000 But again, it just becomes a really wide array of our tool belt.

01:36:39.000 And knowing how to meet people where they're at, recommend the right approach for them at that time.

01:36:45.000 Oftentimes, floating is a gateway to do other things, like clean up the diet, clean up your social environment.

01:36:51.000 Get more on track with your purpose and your passion.

01:36:53.000 Because when you're driving your purpose and your passion, all of a sudden there's less bandwidth that even has room to play with other behaviors and other addictions that might not be getting you to that point.

01:37:06.000 Yeah, I've got to think that momentum plays a huge factor in a lot of people's lives and their decisions, both good and bad.

01:37:16.000 When people are on the bender momentum, they're getting drunk every night and they're fucking up every night, it becomes their life.

01:37:24.000 Whereas the momentum of positivity, that becomes their life. 0.57

01:37:29.000 When you start talking about expressions and sayings like one day at a time, the issues that I have with that, I'm talking completely out of ignorance because I'm not an alcoholic and I never have been, but if I was, I would like to think that I could just get rid of it.

01:37:47.000 It doesn't have to be one day at a time.

01:37:49.000 Why is it one day at a time? 0.99

01:37:51.000 When I wake up tomorrow, am I going to fuck up? 0.99

01:37:55.000 Am I putting that out there? 0.99

01:37:57.000 That one day at a time means let's just take this one day at a time.

01:37:59.000 I'm sober one day at a time. 0.98

01:38:01.000 How about I'm fucking sober? 0.97

01:38:02.000 How about this is me. 0.98

01:38:04.000 I learned from the past and I'm sober now. 1.00

01:38:06.000 But the people that are into that 12-step shit, my only concern is they talk a lot like CrossFitters. 0.99

01:38:15.000 They talk like vegans and CrossFitters and people that are really into being addicted to what they're into. 1.00

01:38:22.000 They're addicted to sobriety.

01:38:24.000 They start talking about it all the time.

01:38:27.000 They start trying to encourage other people, even people that don't have a problem with alcohol. 0.99

01:38:32.000 I've had friends that got clean, and then they see you have a drink, and they're like, listen, bitch, see this? 1.00

01:38:39.000 This is a beer. 0.99

01:38:40.000 I like beer.

01:38:41.000 I'm going to have a beer, and then I'm done.

01:38:43.000 Is that okay?

01:38:44.000 By the way, I'm going to get up in the morning.

01:38:46.000 I'm going to run. 1.00

01:38:46.000 You want to run with me, pussy? 1.00

01:38:47.000 You're just going to sit in bed and say, one day at a time, I'm going to go have my coffee and my cigarettes because I'm super healthy. 1.00

01:38:54.000 That's the other thing they do.

01:38:55.000 They get addicted to something else.

01:38:57.000 It becomes an addiction to a new thing.

01:39:00.000 Coffee and cigarettes is a big one with alcoholics. 0.99

01:39:03.000 I mean, I know so many fucking alcoholics that you see them every day. 1.00

01:39:07.000 They have a goddamn venti Starbucks in their hand. 1.00

01:39:10.000 They can't get off that tit. 1.00

01:39:12.000 And it's just, they've just substituted whatever it is that they were trying to fill with the booze.

01:39:19.000 They've substituted it now with caffeine or with nicotine or with whatever.

01:39:24.000 It becomes like an identifying part of their story.

01:39:27.000 You know, that's part of their identity.

01:39:29.000 And I think one of the lures and the problems with this is when you have this kind of ascetic principle that's part of your identity, you think you're doing great things, but you're really just focused entirely on yourself.

01:39:40.000 It's like, I'm doing something great.

01:39:42.000 I'm eating vegan.

01:39:43.000 Well, what is that doing for the world?

01:39:45.000 That's just something you're doing for yourself.

01:39:47.000 Fine.

01:39:48.000 Good.

01:39:48.000 But they act like it's this great...

01:39:53.000 Well, vegans have kind of an argument for that because the less carbon footprint, less of an impact on the environment with no factory farming or no vested interest in that.

01:40:06.000 So there's a modicum of actual benefit.

01:40:09.000 In any kind of ascetic practice, whether it's not drinking or whether it's not eating meat or whether it's not not doing something, not engaging in sex, you know, you could talk to somebody who's celibate and you find these in some yoga communities like, yes, you know, I've not engaged in sex in a month.

01:40:26.000 And they act like they're doing some great service for humanity when really it's a selfish thing that they're doing.

01:40:31.000 Fine if you want to do that.

01:40:32.000 Any of these things are good.

01:40:33.000 I'm not saying...

01:40:34.000 Don't do them.

01:40:35.000 But the lure is that because it's a struggle, you feel like you're doing something great when really you're just focused entirely on yourself.

01:40:41.000 Well, there's also competition going on, and there's comparing yourself to others, which is a natural human instinct.

01:40:48.000 It's a natural human instinct to gauge your progress based on how you stack up with the people that you surround yourself with.

01:40:58.000 Very few people like to do that in the negative sense.

01:41:02.000 You don't like to look at that in a negative sense.

01:41:05.000 You like to look at it in a positive sense.

01:41:07.000 If you've turned vegan, one of the things that people like to do is they get really shitty, especially online. 0.82

01:41:14.000 Online!

01:41:15.000 Like, the ability to communicate with people with no social repercussions, no cues, no interaction, no looking at each other eye to eye. 0.82

01:41:22.000 There's these shitty, nasty things that people say to each other through that. 0.98

01:41:27.000 And this vegan thing that so many people love to do, where they're really fucking angry and nasty and aggressive. 0.98

01:41:36.000 Towards people who aren't vegan and towards people who enjoy meat or towards people who hunt and they somehow or another feel like they're justified in releasing this anger on you and because you're cruel to animals. 0.95

01:41:53.000 Like I saw something today or someone was talking about there's bears in Yellowstone Park that were chasing tourists.

01:41:59.000 Did you see that video?

01:42:00.000 It's a pretty crazy video.

01:42:01.000 These people were all on this bridge, and these black bears started chasing these people. 0.97

01:42:09.000 It's really kind of fucked, because there's quite a few people on this bridge, and they got on a bridge that unfortunately a mother and her cubs got on. 0.97

01:42:16.000 And the mother's kind of freaking out, and she's chasing people off. 1.00

01:42:20.000 And so someone was like, man, fuck those bears. 1.00

01:42:25.000 Somebody wrote that on Twitter. 1.00

01:42:26.000 And then some other guy was like, no, fuck people. 1.00

01:42:29.000 What people do to this world, if you compare what bears do to this world, it was like this angry scribe about veganism. 1.00

01:42:38.000 And it went from bears being around people to, I'm better than you because I'm a vegan. 1.00

01:42:44.000 And people suck. 0.99

01:42:46.000 But bears are awesome. 1.00

01:42:46.000 That bear will eat your dick off and not give a shit. 1.00

01:42:50.000 It's living in nature, and it's trying to keep its babies alive, which, by the way, if it runs into a male bear, the male bear is going to eat the babies. 1.00

01:42:58.000 So please shut the fuck up with people are worse than bears, because it's ridiculous. 0.99

01:43:02.000 If bears had cars, they would never get their oil changed. 1.00

01:43:06.000 They would fucking drive right over babies. 1.00

01:43:08.000 They wouldn't give a fuck. 1.00

01:43:10.000 I mean, the idea... 0.99

01:43:13.000 The idea that somehow or another you have transcended your need to consume animal protein and so this has transferred in your being somehow to this anger towards people that do consume animal protein.

01:43:30.000 It's really short-sighted and it does more harm than it does good because there's some really good ideas that are attached to living a vegetarian life.

01:43:40.000 Really good ideas.

01:43:41.000 And what you're just talking about in regards to both of those groups, like you had the guy who was recovering from alcohol.

01:43:48.000 Now he was judging you for drinking a beer.

01:43:50.000 And you've got vegans who are judging you for eating meat.

01:43:53.000 It's the same under both of those is that same projected bias.

01:44:00.000 It's that same judgment that what I'm doing is right and what you're doing is wrong.

01:44:05.000 And when we do that, we polarize the discussion.

01:44:09.000 I mean, some people good and some people bad.

01:44:12.000 As opposed to Western medicine has done that to chiropractic medicine or naturopathic medicine.

01:44:16.000 I mean, or the Palestinians have done that to the Israelis. 0.81

01:44:19.000 I mean, the inherent conflicts that are downstream that cause all the major discourse in the world is all about People judging one another and believing in their bones that their position is right versus coming to the table and saying,

01:44:36.000 let's connect.

01:44:37.000 Let's have a clear conversation.

01:44:39.000 Let me own what is mine.

01:44:41.000 So if I'm a recovering alcohol and I'm judging you for your alcohol, let me own the fact that I'm actually envious of you.

01:44:49.000 Because I'd really love to have a beer.

01:44:51.000 But for me, because of my chemistry or my background or whatever, because of who I am and what I'm going through right now, me having a beer is a bad thing.

01:45:02.000 It would lead to a bad outcome.

01:45:05.000 So I'm gonna judge you for yours.

01:45:07.000 It doesn't really matter.

01:45:09.000 You can put the mask on any way you want, but underlying that, it's people's own inherent ability to be real and okay with themselves and judging each other as being bad or wrong.

01:45:21.000 That's the polarizing conflict.

01:45:24.000 Yeah, that's a very good point.

01:45:25.000 It's a very good point, and I think it speaks to what we were talking about earlier about competition, and that this is the only arena where they're keeping score, and that some people, they're keeping score with their moral score.

01:45:39.000 Like, I am a more moral, more ethical person of you because I choose to live my life in this way, even though I do all sorts of damage to people's psyche by being shitty to them.

01:45:49.000 Because, you know, because of the fact that they're not living the same moral life that I do.

01:45:53.000 This is the issue that I've had with, you know, the quote-unquote social justice warriors of the world.

01:45:59.000 The people that shame and attack people for having what they believe to be disparaging belief systems or people that may be sexist or homophobic or what have you.

01:46:11.000 Instead of treating these ideas with rational discourse and love.

01:46:19.000 They're aggressive and angry and they try to get people fired and they try to shame people for their ideas.

01:46:24.000 That doesn't work.

01:46:26.000 Human beings don't work like that and you can't communicate like that.

01:46:29.000 And what you're doing is essentially the same thing that we're talking about.

01:46:32.000 You are now keeping score by shaming or by... 0.99

01:46:38.000 Writing horrible things about these people or by attacking them or organizing groups of like-minded fuckheads to go out and attack these people. 0.98

01:46:48.000 And instead, you're just creating a competitive, sort of antagonistic, combative environment. 0.98

01:46:55.000 You're not doing any good.

01:46:56.000 You might feel better yourself, like, yeah, we went out there and got them.

01:47:01.000 But, you know, like...

01:47:02.000 And let's bring that full circle.

01:47:03.000 You were talking about bullying before.

01:47:05.000 And we can see that start on the playground.

01:47:07.000 Yes.

01:47:07.000 You can actually see that wiring in kids.

01:47:11.000 They're keeping score of toughness at that point, and that becomes part of the thing that they're keeping score.

01:47:15.000 But then you look at the real masters, like many of these fighters that we know, and you transcend.

01:47:21.000 At a certain point, the masters transcend the idea of keeping score, and they just are.

01:47:26.000 You know, like the baddest fighters are just tough.

01:47:28.000 They don't have to show it.

01:47:29.000 They don't have to bow up to somebody or bully anybody.

01:47:33.000 Like Cain Velasquez, perfect example.

01:47:34.000 Exactly, exactly.

01:47:35.000 You ever seen him even make a mean face?

01:47:37.000 He doesn't have to. 0.99

01:47:38.000 He beats the shit out of everybody. 0.99

01:47:39.000 No mean face. 0.99

01:47:40.000 He's not keeping score on toughness anymore.

01:47:42.000 He's transcended the game.

01:47:44.000 And same with anybody in the morality sphere.

01:47:47.000 If they're attacking people, it's just showing their kind of amateur nature in that game in this kind of...

01:47:54.000 Lack of mastery of that. 0.98

01:47:56.000 Because the true spiritual masters, those people who really are the most morally impeccable people, they're not doing that shit. 0.98

01:48:02.000 They've transcended keeping score.

01:48:04.000 People with healthy relationship in business.

01:48:06.000 You see that like Elon Musk giving away all his patents and things.

01:48:09.000 I don't know him personally.

01:48:11.000 I can't vouch that he's perfect.

01:48:12.000 But you start to see principles of, hey, let's just share.

01:48:16.000 There's enough to go around.

01:48:17.000 And they've transcended this scorekeeping mentality.

01:48:20.000 And that's true mastery.

01:48:22.000 You know, when you get to that level rather than this really plural kind of game of...

01:48:27.000 That's such a really good point.

01:48:29.000 You've internalized it at that point.

01:48:30.000 Yeah.

01:48:31.000 You now like the internal scorekeeper.

01:48:34.000 I'm not looking at you to get my own validation, so I don't need to...

01:48:39.000 Aggressively try and sell my approach.

01:48:41.000 I don't need to prove to you that I'm right and then get your feedback so I feel better about myself.

01:48:47.000 Essentially, we internalize over time.

01:48:49.000 Some people have it kind of out the gate because of good parenting or good genetics or a whole host of other things.

01:48:54.000 Some people develop it over time through their own personal mastery to be able to walk in the world with that self-confidence.

01:49:01.000 You use the word a lot, which I appreciate, which is impeccability.

01:49:07.000 We're already walking an impeccable life.

01:49:09.000 We're already aligned with everything that we feel is important for us to do in the world.

01:49:15.000 We've internalized that self-referencing ability to be content, whether it's content in the tank or content across the discussion platform.

01:49:25.000 I think you have to have varying disciplines in your life as well.

01:49:28.000 I don't think concentrating on one thing for any long period of time, although I've done it many times in my life, I don't think it's ultimately healthy.

01:49:36.000 I think it's very good short term to achieve great success in a small amount of time or a relatively small amount of time.

01:49:44.000 But I think that ultimately that is one of the things that can trip you up.

01:49:48.000 If your whole world, say, you know, back to what we're saying, like a computer company, if you own a computer company, if your whole world is that computer company, I think that's ultimately very unhealthy. 0.87

01:49:57.000 But if you have this computer company and then you start getting into jiu-jitsu, you might relax a little bit about the fucking computer company and realize, like, oh, okay.

01:50:05.000 There's a lot of different things I can kind of put this energy towards, and some of them actually enhance my human potential.

01:50:13.000 They actually develop me as a human being and not getting so caught up in those numbers.

01:50:18.000 There's a lot of people that will look at things, this is a really common thing to say.

01:50:22.000 Like, you'll see a guy like Bill Gates. 0.97

01:50:25.000 If I had his money, I wouldn't fucking work at all. 0.58

01:50:26.000 Yeah, that's why you'll never have his money. 0.99

01:50:29.000 It's just like the type of guy that becomes a Bill Gates is a fucking obsessed dude. 0.91

01:50:35.000 You have to have this insane mindset towards progress. 0.70

01:50:43.000 And towards continuing to move the number, continuing to move that needle, and that's the only way you get to develop a company like Microsoft.

01:50:51.000 You have to hire like-minded folks, and you have to all compete together as a team to try to achieve world dominance in something as lucrative as the computer market.

01:51:00.000 That's the only way.

01:51:02.000 You don't get there by being some casual dude who likes to take a lot of time off and work on myself.

01:51:09.000 No. 1.00

01:51:10.000 You get a Bill Gates body, you look all goofy as fuck. 1.00

01:51:13.000 That dude doesn't do deadlifts. 1.00

01:51:15.000 Look at Bill Gates.

01:51:16.000 Bill Gates has no submission defense.

01:51:18.000 He takes his back and just immediately taps.

01:51:21.000 Why?

01:51:22.000 Because he's put all of his energy into creating this Microsoft monolithic empire that's unstoppable at this point.

01:51:31.000 And it's probably really sort of semi-retired now, but I think a lot of that has to do with age, you know, and Once you got ninety fucking billion dollars in the bank there also comes to this point where like I don't I can't even spend this like I literally can't spend this so I think that Having varying disciplines.

01:51:51.000 I do a lot of different things, and I didn't always, but in doing a lot of different things, doing martial arts and playing pool and doing meditation and getting in the tank and doing stand-up comedy and doing...

01:52:05.000 Podcasts and fight commentary and all these various things.

01:52:08.000 None of those things have a lot of weight to me.

01:52:11.000 They're all very significant and important, but if one of them went away, I'd be fine.

01:52:15.000 Like, if the UFC called me up today and said, hey, you can't do the UFC anymore, I'd be like, well, I had a great time.

01:52:20.000 Thanks, guys.

01:52:20.000 Appreciate it.

01:52:21.000 Take care.

01:52:22.000 And that would be fine with me.

01:52:24.000 Like, I have enough other things that I do.

01:52:27.000 You've diversified your portfolio.

01:52:28.000 Boy, if it was my whole life, it would be devastating.

01:52:31.000 But it's never your whole life.

01:52:33.000 Your life is your life.

01:52:34.000 And sometimes people forget that your life is your life.

01:52:38.000 It's this girl, man.

01:52:39.000 If she leaves me, I can't do it, dude.

01:52:41.000 You can do it.

01:52:42.000 Trust me.

01:52:43.000 Do you know how many people got dumped and moved on?

01:52:45.000 When you're the one person who can't do it? 1.00

01:52:48.000 Yeah, get the fuck out of here, bitch. 1.00

01:52:50.000 Just go to Match.com. 1.00

01:52:52.000 I guarantee you, you're going to get laid in a month. 1.00

01:52:54.000 You're going to be so happy you're free.

01:52:56.000 You know?

01:52:57.000 Get on Tinder.

01:52:58.000 These are bad examples, but...

01:53:00.000 Swipe right. 1.00

01:53:02.000 Swipe right. 1.00

01:53:02.000 But... 1.00

01:53:03.000 But involve yourself in more than one thing.

01:53:06.000 Diversify your life.

01:53:08.000 If your life is completely revolving around one thing, but then there's other places where that is bad advice, like fighting.

01:53:17.000 I think you should have some few things that you do outside of fighting, but if you're going to engage in something like martial arts, the amount of time that you have to do to compete, the amount of time that you have to dedicate to it, It's almost impossible to have any other sort of life.

01:53:31.000 Well, I think one of the key things is there's the development of skills, which is important to diversify, but you're really developing your identity.

01:53:38.000 And then if your sole identity is as a fighter, what happens when you break your arm or you can't fight?

01:53:43.000 It's a huge issue with that.

01:53:44.000 And then all of a sudden you're in this huge depression.

01:53:46.000 But let's say you're a fighter and you're also part of your identity is, you know, maybe you're a family man and you're a good father.

01:53:53.000 And that becomes part of your identity and you're a good fighter.

01:53:56.000 And you're, you know, you like to write or you like to paint.

01:53:59.000 And then all of a sudden you have multiple things.

01:54:01.000 So if one thing leaves, then you have many other parts that really make your life give it purpose, give it meaning.

01:54:07.000 And I think the problem can be Inherent in any of these things, like you see parents whose soul life is the parenthood process.

01:54:14.000 Their identity is their kid's success.

01:54:16.000 Their identity is father of so-and-so, mother of so-and-so.

01:54:20.000 And so that becomes an issue as well.

01:54:22.000 So diversifying your identity to the point where, yeah, all of these are just things, but it's really you, yourself.

01:54:30.000 That you're, you know, this being on this planet, you know, that doesn't need attachment to actually anything at all.

01:54:37.000 They're just all parts of your life, things that you enjoy.

01:54:40.000 You know, that's the state of invulnerability, where they can take away any one thing.

01:54:45.000 Even your own physical, like, physical ability.

01:54:49.000 It's something that's very good to cultivate.

01:54:50.000 I'm all about it.

01:54:51.000 But if you have your soul identity wrapped up in that, and you get in some kind of accident... 0.99

01:54:56.000 You're going to have a fucking hell of a time. 0.93

01:54:59.000 Because if all you look at yourself is your physical ability and you haven't cultivated anything else, your spiritual ability or your emotional connection to other people or these other things, you're putting all your eggs in one basket. 0.99

01:55:11.000 It's a dangerous place to be because the universe loves to go around and play gotcha on any type of thing that we have too much attachment to.

01:55:19.000 It's crazy how that's such a catch-22.

01:55:21.000 It's like in order to achieve great success, it has to literally become your world.

01:55:27.000 You have to be obsessed with it.

01:55:30.000 Everything that I've ever done that I got really good at, I became completely obsessed with it.

01:55:34.000 I was living it, eating it, breathing it.

01:55:37.000 I had no identity other than that.

01:55:40.000 That doesn't balance you out as a human being.

01:55:43.000 It's almost like you go through these sprints, and then when you get out of the spring, you're like, let me just stop here for a second.

01:55:49.000 I can't keep doing this anymore.

01:55:51.000 And then you almost have to get through that in order to realize that there does need to be some sort of diversification in your interests.

01:55:59.000 Miyamoto Basashi wrote about that in the Book of Five Rings.

01:56:02.000 One of the things that he talked about that was really important was that A great fighter, a great samurai, had to also be a great philosopher, had to also be a great artist.

01:56:13.000 There was a balance that had to be achieved where there was never any ridiculous anger.

01:56:20.000 There was no outburst. 0.99

01:56:21.000 There was no stupidity. 1.00

01:56:22.000 There was no foolhardiness. 0.99

01:56:24.000 And this was all balanced.

01:56:26.000 There was this symbiotic relationship that you had.

01:56:29.000 To all of your emotions and all of your fears and all of your ideas and all of your expression.

01:56:33.000 And your art was also your killing.

01:56:36.000 And all those things moved together.

01:56:38.000 And that without that balance, you would miss.

01:56:42.000 Something would go wrong.

01:56:43.000 You would fail to see it in front of you.

01:56:45.000 You would fail to parry.

01:56:47.000 You would fail to counter.

01:56:48.000 And you would die on the battlefield.

01:56:50.000 If your identity is too wrapped up in one thing, you will crave the success in a way in which you need it because you need that to support you in that.

01:56:58.000 And the second that you need something or crave something, it belies a certain underlying fear that you're not going to get that.

01:57:05.000 And the minute you have fear that you're not going to get it, you're not going to be performing at your best ability, you know?

01:57:10.000 So, you know, I heard a great poker player who told me that, you know, his mentor who'd won some World Series of Poker said, you know, you'll win the World Series of Poker when it isn't a big deal if you win the World Series of Poker.

01:57:20.000 Like, you've just gotten to the point where you've mastered that art to such a degree that you don't crave that to form your identity.

01:57:29.000 You're not afraid of not getting that.

01:57:31.000 It's just like, yeah, this is what I do.

01:57:32.000 I'm one of the best in the world, and this is what's going to happen.

01:57:36.000 Yeah, you can be stoked, but it's not this deep need.

01:57:39.000 Because anytime you need something, whether it's a girlfriend, whether it's something in your career, if you really need it to the point where if you don't get it, you think you're going to freak out, you're going to be too afraid to actually get it.

01:57:50.000 This is also that very important transition for when you actually do achieve that thing, now what?

01:57:56.000 Look at a guy like Mike Tyson in his prime.

01:57:59.000 He was the epitome of dedication.

01:58:04.000 I remember watching this video of Mike Tyson describing his early morning runs, that he could wake up later and run, but he got a little bit of an edge knowing that as he was running his opponent was sleeping.

01:58:16.000 You know, and that he would work out.

01:58:18.000 I mean, he was in impeccable condition.

01:58:20.000 When he was being trained by Custom Auto, he was living the complete total existence of a man hell-bent on becoming the world champion. 0.98

01:58:29.000 And then once he became the world champion, then he's buying tigers and smacking bitches and punching people in bodegas. 1.00

01:58:36.000 I mean, he was out of his fucking mind, right? 0.99

01:58:37.000 Because he'd achieved this... 0.99

01:58:40.000 Unstoppable, this status, this peak of existence that he had longed for forever.

01:58:47.000 But then, where are the goals?

01:58:49.000 Now what?

01:58:50.000 Every fight is a 30-second assault.

01:58:52.000 You know, I mean, those 80s fights with Tyson, where he would just show up and look at people and they would melt.

01:58:59.000 The Bruce Seldon fights where, you know, he got dropped from a left hook that didn't even connect.

01:59:04.000 Just the ghost.

01:59:06.000 It was like chi.

01:59:07.000 He's like, ah!

01:59:07.000 Yeah.

01:59:09.000 I think there's a lack of a challenge then.

01:59:13.000 There's a lack of a goal.

01:59:14.000 There's no more mountain.

01:59:15.000 So now it's just chaos and cocaine and women and then eventually the wheels fall off. 0.99

01:59:21.000 The lack of balance.

01:59:23.000 Yeah.

01:59:24.000 I mean, that is the warrior-poet concept that we lost somewhere along the way.

01:59:28.000 We started celebrating people in the extremes.

01:59:31.000 And you celebrate that with extreme amount of money, too, which is the allure.

01:59:37.000 Like a laser, someone who can be really good at one thing, can achieve a lot of financial success, but they're not generally going to achieve happiness.

01:59:44.000 But that's not what's celebrated or measured.

01:59:47.000 But that used to be the norm.

01:59:49.000 I think I've talked about it on here before.

01:59:52.000 That in ancient Greece, in Rome, in ancient Japan, and this idea of the Bushido and this way of cultivating many different skills and talents, calligraphy along with swordsmanship, philosophy along with holding the shield line, all of these different things.

02:00:08.000 That's been kind of...

02:00:09.000 Lost a little bit along the way and I think that's a huge part of bringing back an embrace of what it is to be a man and for for women you know what it is to be a woman holding their own you know special magic in whatever field it is not just attractiveness not just how good you look not just how sexy you are but what other things that you can cultivate you know what emotional intelligence what other skills maybe it is on the more masculine side whatever but rounding out the spectrum Of everybody,

02:00:39.000 I think, will really yield much, much more positive results.

02:00:42.000 Because again, going back to these tragedies you see with bullying and all the suicides, so much is attached to, their identity is attached to attractiveness and social status on these networks.

02:00:54.000 Where if they were a great poet or a great painter or a great basketball player or a great soccer player, you know, there would be one element of truth That they could always rely on, even when the world seemed to take away that.

02:01:06.000 And let's say they were good at multiple things.

02:01:08.000 Let's say they were good at caring for an animal and good at soccer and good at, you know, writing.

02:01:13.000 And they were attractive.

02:01:14.000 All right, well, you take away that one finger of attractiveness. 0.88

02:01:17.000 Cool.

02:01:17.000 They still got these multiple areas.

02:01:19.000 So I think that's a key thing, you know, if you look at developmentally, ideas to instill in young people is having multiple things that they can draw esteem from when everything looks like it's collapsing and say, ah, I can sort it out, you know.

02:01:32.000 I think counterintuitively also the idea that bullying is just a natural part of people growing up.

02:01:40.000 I think it's a natural part of people growing up that never learned how to fight.

02:01:43.000 You know where you see very little bullying or very little tolerance of bullying?

02:01:47.000 Martial arts schools.

02:01:48.000 It is very, it is looked at as one of the worst character traits a true martial artist, a true master can have.

02:01:57.000 You know, like one of the easiest things you could do, like say if you want to do jujitsu, if you want to roll with a guy like Marcelo Garcia, you're not going to get hurt.

02:02:05.000 He's not going to hurt you.

02:02:07.000 He'll tap you.

02:02:08.000 You'll be forced into positions where you have to tap out.

02:02:10.000 But that's not hurting you.

02:02:12.000 He's going to beat you at the game of jiu-jitsu.

02:02:15.000 But as far as, like, harm you, he's not going to harm you.

02:02:18.000 And as far as the way he treats you, he's the kindest, sweetest guy ever. 0.96

02:02:22.000 And one of the reasons why is because he is a true master at killing people with his bare hands. 0.76

02:02:28.000 Without actually harming people. 0.93

02:02:29.000 It seems contradictory.

02:02:30.000 I think the best way to stop bullying in school would be to make martial arts available to everyone and to explain to them that this isn't about becoming a tough guy.

02:02:41.000 It's about overcoming your own self, overcoming your own insecurities, your own ego, which is a battle that is constant.

02:02:49.000 There's an expression about inspiration.

02:02:54.000 That inspiration is like bathing.

02:02:58.000 It works, but it works for short periods of time.

02:03:00.000 That's why we recommend it daily. 0.99

02:03:02.000 You know, like you can't just bathe once a year and go, what the fuck? 0.99

02:03:05.000 I did bathe. 1.00

02:03:06.000 Why am I dirty?

02:03:07.000 You know, I mean, it's the same thing with developing your mind, controlling your ego.

02:03:14.000 Controlling your fears, reassuring your anxieties, and assessing the objective view or assessing an objective view of your life and your perspective on the world.

02:03:26.000 And I think it's very difficult to do without some discipline, without some sort of task-oriented discipline.

02:03:34.000 And in my opinion, one of the best ones Is martial arts.

02:03:37.000 And it's one of the best ones for dealing with interpersonal conflict because we want to pretend that no one's going to fight.

02:03:44.000 We want to, like, well, we don't want bullying.

02:03:46.000 We don't want fighting.

02:03:47.000 We don't want that in this school.

02:03:48.000 Well, you have it.

02:03:49.000 Okay, you have it.

02:03:50.000 You know why you have it?

02:03:52.000 One of the reasons why you have it, you're not addressing the underlying problems of what it means to be a person, especially what it means to be a developing man, growing up and having all these...

02:04:02.000 Thousands of years of instincts and DNA ingrained in your biological system, and then you're supposed to just ignore them. 0.94

02:04:11.000 And you wonder why men gravitate towards toxic masculinity, like, you know, video games and fucking watching the Avengers. 0.95

02:04:19.000 It's not toxic. 0.99

02:04:20.000 It's a part of being a human.

02:04:22.000 Like a part of being a human, the reason why we got here in 2015, it's not because everybody did yoga and ate tofu. 0.98

02:04:30.000 It's because there were fucking warriors and they fought off other warriors because we used to be rampaging tribes of monkey people. 1.00

02:04:37.000 Okay? 0.99

02:04:38.000 And we evolved past that over millions of years to get to where we are now.

02:04:41.000 But it's foolish to pretend that we're done. 1.00

02:04:44.000 It's fucking foolish. 1.00

02:04:46.000 It's foolish to pretend... 1.00

02:04:47.000 Why am I so hairy?

02:04:50.000 What is that?

02:04:50.000 That's monkey DNA, man.

02:04:52.000 I'm still fucking animal. 1.00

02:04:55.000 There's animal in us. 1.00

02:04:56.000 We're not these aliens with these large gray heads and like frail bodies and we move things around with telepathy.

02:05:03.000 Maybe that's in our future.

02:05:05.000 We're not there yet.

02:05:06.000 And to pretend that we're there now is ignoring our biological system.

02:05:11.000 And that's ensuring they're going to have these same issues over and over and over again.

02:05:16.000 I think that some of the nicest people I've ever met have been martial artists.

02:05:19.000 And I really believe that if we taught that in school from the time when children were little, so it's not some scary, freaky thing that you have to enter into as an adult, but it's a part of a normal, everyday management of life program, I think we would be a lot better off.

02:05:36.000 A lot better off.

02:05:37.000 You would alleviate a lot of that anxiety of physical altercation, too.

02:05:41.000 It wouldn't be some threat that everybody's holding over everybody's head, too.

02:05:45.000 It'd be a much easier existence.

02:05:47.000 I think you make a perfect point there because it's not...

02:05:50.000 Anytime you try to deny these natural instincts that you have, you're going to have a problem.

02:05:56.000 And then the other aspect is, okay, let's placate them.

02:05:59.000 All right, well, that kind of works a little bit.

02:06:01.000 But really what we should do is celebrate them and allow them to channel in positive ways.

02:06:06.000 You know, celebrate that urge to use your body in these...

02:06:12.000 We're good to go.

02:06:39.000 Same with sexuality. 0.86

02:06:40.000 And I think there's a huge problem with that.

02:06:41.000 People just deny the fact that we're sexual beings.

02:06:45.000 We better not teach sex ed or the kids might have sex. 1.00

02:06:47.000 What the fuck are you talking about? 1.00

02:06:49.000 And in the countries and cultures where they teach sex ed younger, they have lower teen pregnancy rates. 1.00

02:06:56.000 Right.

02:06:56.000 And they have actually more pro-social sexual engagements because people are talking about it.

02:07:02.000 You could say the same thing about the psychedelic experience, like the island, which is a crowd favorite of ours by Aldous Huxley.

02:07:09.000 He talks about the rites of passage ceremonies that includes moksha medicine, which is probably psilocybin.

02:07:15.000 That is done in the group setting for kids as a rites of passage going into their adulthood that's supported and stewarded by those that have already gone through it.

02:07:26.000 So like your dojo master working with people in the early stages of martial arts training or somebody that's medicine positive and experienced working with kids going into psychedelic altered states of consciousness to be able to expand their worldview.

02:07:44.000 So all these things where we repress information—sexuality, antigenics, physical engagement—anytime we were repressing those things, they're going to come out anyway.

02:07:56.000 And they usually come out in these distorted, destructive ways.

02:08:01.000 Yeah, so set the bar with really good practices in all of these areas.

02:08:05.000 Sexuality, physicality, and spirituality.

02:08:08.000 Like really, if you're nurturing somebody young, you've got to hit those areas in a really conscious way and not be scared of them.

02:08:15.000 That is what we understand. 0.99

02:08:16.000 Like you said, we got fucking hair on our bodies. 1.00

02:08:18.000 Let's enjoy that. 1.00

02:08:20.000 It's not going to last forever.

02:08:21.000 It's a cool time.

02:08:22.000 Let's really enjoy this period.

02:08:24.000 Whatever comes next, comes next.

02:08:26.000 But celebrate that in a positive way.

02:08:28.000 You know, teach kids not just, this is what to do, always wear a condom, blah, blah, blah, all that.

02:08:33.000 But to be like, alright, this is what to do if you think you're about to come and you really would rather hold off a little longer.

02:08:41.000 Yeah.

02:08:41.000 You know, not just think about baseball, but there's like tantric practices that can help you like different breathing techniques that can put that like actionable information.

02:08:49.000 So kids are like, okay, I can calm down a little bit in this situation.

02:08:53.000 Maybe this can be instead of this short, violent experience that leaves everybody feeling like Ah, what was that?

02:08:59.000 You know, teach them how to make it a positive experience so they don't get all this baggage attached to these sexual encounters.

02:09:05.000 Because I've encountered that a lot.

02:09:07.000 People who've had really caustic and damaging sexual encounters with people where it's like so much tension built up, so much ignorance around it, and then something happens and it's just short and violent and it's terrible.

02:09:20.000 It's like, ah!

02:09:21.000 That was an awful traumatic experience where you could just be like, look, we're all going to have sex. 0.97

02:09:26.000 It's cool. 0.94

02:09:27.000 Here's some techniques.

02:09:28.000 This is what's pleasurable.

02:09:29.000 This is what's respectful.

02:09:30.000 This is what's safe.

02:09:31.000 These are some techniques that can help out.

02:09:33.000 And celebrate that, just the same as you would teach martial arts, just the same as you would steward people through true experiential spirituality where they get in touch with that other thing, either inside themselves or in the other astral, in the light world, whatever you want to say.

02:09:48.000 Steward them in positive ways through those main categories. 0.96

02:09:51.000 And it's a different fucking world at that point. 0.77

02:09:53.000 There's also a lot of confusing and conflicting signals that are out there. 0.98

02:09:59.000 People expressing themselves in ways that aren't necessarily honest, but instead they're trying to calm their own anxieties or distort...

02:10:11.000 Distort other people's perceptions of reality to match up with the way they identify themselves. 0.94

02:10:18.000 I mean, you see this all the time with homophobic people who will talk very horribly about gay sex, and then you find out that they're actually gay. 0.78

02:10:26.000 I mean, it's so common, like this mixed signal, this wire, this confusion going on. 0.57

02:10:32.000 People that don't feel sexually attractive, don't feel awkward, or feel awkward, rather, and don't feel like they want to...

02:10:41.000 Defuse or deny or demean the idea of the importance of sexual contact.

02:10:48.000 I read this piece the other day where someone was saying that there is no such thing as the urge for sex.

02:10:56.000 There's no sex drive.

02:10:59.000 They actually said this.

02:11:00.000 They were saying there is no sex drive.

02:11:01.000 There's a drive to eat.

02:11:03.000 There's a drive to sleep.

02:11:05.000 But if you don't have sex, you are fine. 1.00

02:11:07.000 And I'm like, you're out of your fucking mind. 1.00

02:11:09.000 Like, what are you talking about? 1.00

02:11:10.000 How do you think there got to be seven billion people in the world? 1.00

02:11:13.000 We all just decided to fuck. 1.00

02:11:15.000 Let's try this. 1.00

02:11:16.000 No, there's a goddamn crazy drive. 0.99

02:11:18.000 There's numerous examples through every species of animals risking their life. 1.00

02:11:25.000 To have sex. 0.85

02:11:26.000 Sure. 0.85

02:11:26.000 You know, why do these animals in the wild, why do they fight to the death for, like, the seventh cow in the harem? 0.85

02:11:32.000 Yeah.

02:11:32.000 Like, you don't do that because you're just trying to survive.

02:11:35.000 It's because there's an instinct to reproduce that's probably as strong as the instinct to survive, and in some cases, superseding it.

02:11:42.000 How about elk? 0.99

02:11:44.000 They grow trees out of their fucking head so they could smash these trees into other elk. 1.00

02:11:50.000 They stab each other. 1.00

02:11:51.000 These trees have pointy ends.

02:11:53.000 They don't grow blunt. 0.99

02:11:55.000 They have fucking points on the end. 1.00

02:11:57.000 And if you've ever seen elk fight, they have holes all over their chest and their cape, all over their neck area, where they jam their fucking, these swords that grow every year out of their head when it's time to fuck. 1.00

02:12:10.000 When it's time, their urge is so strong that their body grows swords out of their fucking head. 0.99

02:12:15.000 And then when they're done fucking, they drop off. 1.00

02:12:18.000 They fall off. 1.00

02:12:18.000 I mean, it's insane to think that there's not a sex drive. 1.00

02:12:22.000 It's insane. 0.99

02:12:23.000 But this was a whole article by some chubby dummy that has shitty hormone balance, never goes jogging, I'm sure, and just feels completely... 0.99

02:12:34.000 unattractive sexually so they're in denial about the urge and the need and whether or not it's a core component of life because it's so weighted because you use sex to sell Jaguars and lipstick and fucking buildings and you know there's always a woman with her legs and long legs and a man with abs and a fucking Calvin Klein commercial and all the sex sex sex sex sex you know there's people that just feel like I'm out of that game like that game does not apply to me I'm here eating donuts My gut looks like a fucking beanbag chair, 1.00

02:13:05.000 and I'm not that guy, or I'm not that girl. 0.99

02:13:07.000 And so they deny the existence of it. 0.83

02:13:10.000 And if you show a picture of yourself looking hot, you're fat-shaming, which is one of my all-time favorite of all the retarded social justice warrior sayings. 1.00

02:13:20.000 It's fat-shaming. 0.97

02:13:21.000 Like, can't shame you if you're not fat.

02:13:24.000 How about that?

02:13:24.000 Well, the repression creates these other things.

02:13:27.000 Like, the reason why Americans use sex to sell everything is because sex has been so repressed that we crave it in some crazy, weird way.

02:13:35.000 If it was just a healthy relationship with it, it would be like, why is the really hot girl selling a cheeseburger? 1.00

02:13:41.000 It'd be funny.

02:13:42.000 And people would laugh at it instead of being like, oh, Paris Hilton with sauce dripping down her face. 1.00

02:13:48.000 It was amazing.

02:13:49.000 Well, those are way less effective for people to get laid all the time.

02:13:52.000 Yeah, for sure. 0.98

02:13:53.000 When people are married and their wife is kind of dumpy and they're kind of dumpy and they just, no one ever touches them and no one's attracted to them and then they see some chick with dark red lipstick on and her breasts are plumped up and she's in some fucking outfit and she's selling Burger King or something like that and you're like, 0.98

02:14:10.000 I'll buy a burger from you! 0.99

02:14:12.000 It just draws you to it because it's unavailable.

02:14:17.000 Because it's just outside of the realm of possibility in your meager existence.

02:14:22.000 So it becomes currency.

02:14:25.000 It becomes like a huge selling point.

02:14:27.000 You look at the amount of things that we sell with beautiful women. 1.00

02:14:31.000 I mean, it's staggering.

02:14:32.000 If you just did a montage of all the different things that we try to sell with beautiful, scantily clad women, it's amazing.

02:14:40.000 I mean, it's amazing.

02:14:42.000 It's a really...

02:14:43.000 It's crazy.

02:14:45.000 Yeah, I mean, in a healthy relationship, I suppose it would be like, you know, it's not to not celebrate beautiful women.

02:14:52.000 Beautiful women are inherently going to be something that people are going to enjoy seeing, just like a great, beautiful bouquet of flowers. 1.00

02:14:59.000 Like, you have a beautiful bouquet of flowers on your table, you know, you're going to look at that, and you're going to say, oh man, that's beautiful.

02:15:05.000 That's a beautiful part of the world.

02:15:06.000 That's a beautiful part of nature that exists, and you can appreciate it.

02:15:10.000 But not using that to manipulate...

02:15:12.000 In some weird way and cause a reaction and then use that momentum and steer it and turn it.

02:15:18.000 You know, that's where it gets weird.

02:15:20.000 But I think all too often people forget that other part, which is, yeah, that is a beautiful part of the world.

02:15:26.000 It's beautiful to look at.

02:15:28.000 It'd be beautiful to smell.

02:15:29.000 It'd be beautiful in a variety of different ways.

02:15:31.000 We can fully celebrate that, but just not manipulate that urge into something that's not helpful.

02:15:37.000 But it's one of those weird things where when things are suppressed, they gain so much energy and so much power that they're almost unavoidable. 0.99

02:15:45.000 I mean, this is like this momentum and energy behind them that, like, the Catholic priest that is forced into celibacy, and now nobody trusts that fuck, because he's just barely hanging on, clinging, 0.99

02:16:01.000 just clinging like a piece of cheesecloth holding back the ocean. 1.00

02:16:05.000 Ooh! 0.99

02:16:07.000 You know, just, you know, you know, you know it's not natural, you know it's not normal, and that's why the image or the depiction of the Catholic priest as being some sex-crazed pervert, pedophile, why it exists. 0.99

02:16:21.000 It's completely, totally unnatural to repress yourself sexually. 0.98

02:16:25.000 It has nothing to do with homosexuality. 0.98

02:16:27.000 Like, people will say, oh, Catholic priests are all really gay, and that's why they go into the priesthood. 0.99

02:16:31.000 Gay and molesting kids are completely unrelated. 0.99

02:16:35.000 That is not what's going on. 1.00

02:16:37.000 What's going on is these poor fucking people have no sexual outlet. 1.00

02:16:42.000 And that is totally unnatural. 1.00

02:16:44.000 It is the epitome of denying your physical existence.

02:16:47.000 It is exactly what we were talking about earlier.

02:16:49.000 The denial of the body as a biological organism that has existed for untold thousands of years in the exact same state.

02:17:00.000 I think?

02:17:16.000 Your body just thinks it's a body.

02:17:18.000 You have to exist as a human being under the confines of being a human being. 0.89

02:17:24.000 When you deny your humanity because it doesn't fit your ideal or your aesthetic or your ridiculous notions of what you should be, well, you're going to run into problems, son. 1.00

02:17:36.000 We should all aspire to greater heights, but in doing so, you've got to address the reality of what the fuck you are. 0.99

02:17:45.000 That's, again, going back to the definition of consciousness. 0.99

02:17:47.000 Consciousness is fully embodied.

02:17:49.000 It is not just sitting on a mountain, only accessing your spiritual body.

02:17:54.000 It's fully embodied.

02:17:55.000 It's being a human in your body and bringing that home and bringing the The unity of that whole system together, that's what it really boils down to.

02:18:05.000 That's what's gonna lead the happiest, most fulfilled life and make you someone who society can lean on like an anchor. 0.97

02:18:12.000 That creates these people that are just the pillars, the leaders, the people who can be there when the shit hits the fan, you know?

02:18:19.000 I mean, that's who everybody should aspire to be, an embodied being of consciousness, not just a consciousness being and not just a body. 0.92

02:18:27.000 Bring it all together.

02:18:28.000 And there should be a bunch of us around, so it's normal.

02:18:31.000 I mean, I don't say us like we've got it nailed, but I mean a bunch of humans that are like that around so that we could all sort of feed off each other and imitate our atmosphere in a very positive way.

02:18:40.000 And I think, you know, there's a lot of people running through life that they don't have anyone around them that is living a life that they would aspire to.

02:18:49.000 And so it's really hard to dream.

02:18:52.000 It's really hard to picture an ideal existence because your existence is sort of It's modeled out of what you see in your environment. 0.98

02:19:01.000 In your environment, there's a lot of misery and bullshit and just confusion and despair. 0.98

02:19:10.000 It's like that... 0.99

02:19:11.000 Who was the great author that made that quote?

02:19:16.000 Was it Walden?

02:19:17.000 I forget.

02:19:18.000 Thoreau?

02:19:19.000 Thoreau.

02:19:20.000 All men leave... 0.99

02:19:21.000 Most men lead lives of silent desperation.

02:19:25.000 And that's the reality.

02:19:27.000 It's like, most people, I mean, he's a man, so he wrote about men, but most people, I think, live lives of longing for better.

02:19:36.000 Silent desperation.

02:19:37.000 Just like, this is it?

02:19:38.000 This is what I'm doing? 1.00

02:19:40.000 Well, you kids, shut the fuck up! 1.00

02:19:42.000 You know, like, you're in your cubicle and you just want to grab that image, that famous video of a guy who's in his cubicle who just starts punching his keyboard and then just smashes his computer monitor and picks it up and smashes on the ground. 1.00

02:19:55.000 It was all caught by a security camera.

02:19:56.000 Have you ever seen that video?

02:19:57.000 No.

02:19:58.000 It embodies cubicle life to me because this guy just hit that point.

02:20:02.000 Wait a second! 0.99

02:20:03.000 Sucker! 1.00

02:20:05.000 And he smashes the whole thing. 0.98

02:20:07.000 I mean, so many people are like on that brink, just right there.

02:20:12.000 And so they numb themselves. 0.99

02:20:13.000 They numb themselves with alcohol or medications or television or all of these things to dampen these and make it possible instead of just really looking at Let's go for the fucking win. 0.99

02:20:25.000 What's the win? 0.95

02:20:26.000 What situation, even if it's not normal, even if it's a little weird, even if it's on the fringe, what's the win for me? 1.00

02:20:32.000 Fuck what everybody else thinks. 0.99

02:20:34.000 I'm going to forge a new way. 1.00

02:20:36.000 Maybe that is being some crazy ice fisher in some desolate place, or maybe it's living in a non-monogamous community, or maybe whatever.

02:20:45.000 What's your win?

02:20:46.000 Go for the win.

02:20:47.000 Don't just accept Yeah, okay.

02:20:49.000 You know, this is okay.

02:20:50.000 This lifetime, we did all right.

02:20:52.000 We made it through, you know. 1.00

02:20:53.000 Just go for the fucking win. 0.99

02:20:55.000 Yeah, it's like Hunter S. Thompson's description of how to end life. 1.00

02:20:59.000 Screeching sideways with the wheels falling off.

02:21:01.000 Like, don't pull in and park at the end of the life.

02:21:04.000 Like, you want your radiator to be overheating, your engine smoking, everything falling apart.

02:21:11.000 You know, I know this woman, Sue Akins.

02:21:14.000 She's on that show, Life Below Zero.

02:21:16.000 She's on the podcast. 0.99

02:21:17.000 She's just fucking great. 0.99

02:21:19.000 Great character. 0.99

02:21:20.000 She's in her 50s.

02:21:21.000 She lives 200 miles above the Arctic Circle in a place called Kavik in Alaska.

02:21:26.000 And she loves it.

02:21:27.000 That's her reality.

02:21:28.000 She went for the win. 0.94

02:21:30.000 She went for the win. 0.94

02:21:31.000 And it's not my win.

02:21:32.000 It's not your win.

02:21:33.000 Not my win. 1.00

02:21:33.000 Fuck that place. 1.00

02:21:34.000 But it's not your win. 1.00

02:21:35.000 But it's her win, man. 0.99

02:21:37.000 She fucking loves it. 0.99

02:21:38.000 When she talks about it, she talks about it with true love. 1.00

02:21:42.000 She is enjoying it.

02:21:44.000 It fits her personality.

02:21:46.000 It fits her worldview.

02:21:48.000 She loves it.

02:21:49.000 She's in the midst of ongoing cryotherapy.

02:21:52.000 Yeah.

02:21:53.000 She's pretty young, too.

02:21:54.000 It's a weak cryotherapy, though.

02:21:56.000 She's not really doing the 250 degrees below zero.

02:21:58.000 She only gets down to like 90. But she does it for way longer, so it's different.

02:22:06.000 When you were treating patients in the clinical pathology thing, what were some of the patterns that you saw that were some of the real challenges that people face growing up?

02:22:20.000 What were the main themes that were the hardest to deal with and bring into a healthy adult life?

02:22:26.000 Trauma and disconnection.

02:22:30.000 Disconnection from like what Joe was saying in regards to mentorship.

02:22:34.000 Having a big brother or somebody in that role that they could aspire to be like, that could coach them through challenging situations.

02:22:43.000 I think?

02:23:02.000 It's not really dealt with above board, whether it's people being traumatized sexually because the perpetrator, the person actually doing the traumatic event, they weren't integrated in their own sexuality, so it came out in a perverse way.

02:23:17.000 Or it was the internalization of something that seemed mild But because they didn't have the languaging and the opportunity to connect with somebody, that it held and seeded over time.

02:23:30.000 Like if you see animals in the wild, when they get traumatized, like if you were driving a car and you hit a deer, The first thing that deer is going to do when it gets to the side of the road is going to shake it out.

02:23:41.000 It's going to just move that somatically out of its body because trauma gets imprinted into the somatic infrastructure, like Prongi was talking about, into the fascia.

02:23:52.000 Trauma gets programmed into the body.

02:23:54.000 It also gets...

02:23:55.000 Trauma will change the genetic expression.

02:23:59.000 You actually see the DNA genetic code change its expression at the time of trauma.

02:24:05.000 And that can be recapitulated transgenerationally.

02:24:09.000 So from generation to generation to generation, I can still hold my parents' trauma, my grandparents' trauma.

02:24:15.000 So it's just like an epigenetic phenomenon?

02:24:17.000 It's a transgenerational epigenetic phenomena.

02:24:21.000 That's so crazy.

02:24:23.000 It's so crazy.

02:24:24.000 So we are, and that's what the Native Americans talk about.

02:24:26.000 Our actions right now do affect seven generations down the line because it takes that long to bleed it out of the genes unless you clear it.

02:24:35.000 And so trauma has a big hold.

02:24:38.000 That sense of disconnection because we grew up in these disenfranchised families.

02:24:43.000 Like, you know, mom and dad drive in with little Johnny in the back and they hit the garage door opener.

02:24:48.000 Drive in, garage door goes down.

02:24:50.000 Like little Johnny's getting his social engagement through computer games and through Twitter and Facebook and texting.

02:24:57.000 You see kids nowadays texting across from each other.

02:25:01.000 It's crazy.

02:25:02.000 As opposed to having this engagement, they're texting.

02:25:05.000 Not just kids. 1.00

02:25:06.000 I mean, fucking grown adults. 0.99

02:25:09.000 I can't tell you how many times I've gone to dinner with friends that are in their 30s and 40s and five people are at a table and everyone's staring at their phone. 1.00

02:25:17.000 Right.

02:25:18.000 So where's that sense of connection?

02:25:20.000 And that gets recapitulated and it builds particularly because kids are little sponges and their social milieu is really developing its foundation when they're really young that way.

02:25:30.000 So if it starts so young, then it solidifies over time until there's a massive interjection of some new kind of thing.

02:25:38.000 And so it's important for kids to be absorbed in nature.

02:25:41.000 It's important for them to have like the correct mentorship about not shaming, not blaming, bringing everything up to the surface.

02:25:49.000 And then the whole way that we work with, for example, like the penal system, the whole judicial system is completely backwards.

02:25:58.000 We label the perpetrator and the victim and then the whole legal system is set up against that way.

02:26:03.000 It's like warring.

02:26:04.000 It's not about a cooperative model.

02:26:11.000 It's not about Healing the perpetrator.

02:26:16.000 It's about rescuing the victim.

02:26:18.000 So people in that victim mentality...

02:26:20.000 Not even about rescuing the victim, just getting vindication, getting revenge.

02:26:24.000 Right.

02:26:24.000 Like, I'm going to get paid for being a victim.

02:26:27.000 And that perpetrator is going to go off somewhere and not get rehabilitated.

02:26:32.000 And people don't typically get better in prison.

02:26:35.000 And when you look at like the whole just downstream effect of that victimhood, there's a really good article by the Simontons, they were a man and wife couple in the 80s.

02:26:46.000 They had some of the first early mind-body studies that showed the importance of what you think, how it affects your body.

02:26:54.000 He was an oncologist and she was a research psychologist.

02:26:57.000 And there were four things that, no matter what level of cancer, like stage, or what type of cancer, there were consistent measures that showed people getting better and people getting worse.

02:27:09.000 And one of those that consistently showed people getting worse was victimhood.

02:27:13.000 Like, they didn't believe that they had any empowerment to change their situation.

02:27:18.000 Also, inability to give and receive love, resentment, and low self-esteem or self-worth. 0.99

02:27:23.000 When you had all four of those, you were like, fucked. 0.96

02:27:26.000 That's a crazy thing, the connection between the immune system and your perceptions of the environment. 0.99

02:27:33.000 Right.

02:27:33.000 Your perceptions of the world you live in.

02:27:35.000 Right.

02:27:35.000 And you just showed me this morning some article in Wellbeing, I think.

02:27:41.000 It was the perception.

02:27:44.000 They did this really interesting study of housekeepers.

02:27:49.000 And housekeepers that were told that the activities that they were engaging with...

02:27:54.000 Just cleaning the hotel rooms.

02:27:57.000 So they were told whatever they were doing, cleaning, fixing things, they were told that that was healthy.

02:28:04.000 There was a group that was told that that was good exercise and another group that wasn't told anything.

02:28:09.000 And after a period of weeks, they did biologic, physiologic markers and showed that the women that had the idea that they were exercising more had less weight gain.

02:28:24.000 Actually, their weight started to redistribute.

02:28:26.000 They had better blood pressure and heart rate measures.

02:28:30.000 Their whole physiology shifted because of their belief Not because they changed their activities at all.

02:28:36.000 So when you look at the other side of that equation, you had certain things that, because of the way you thought, made the illness continue to seed, that cancer profile.

02:28:46.000 The two things that consistently helped people get better was their faith Their belief in a reason that this was happening, or some level of empowerment that they could utilize this experience for benefit,

02:29:02.000 like the housekeepers, and visualization. 0.99

02:29:05.000 That you could actually visualize yourself becoming better.

02:29:10.000 And they've also shown that with kids.

02:29:11.000 And kids are extraordinarily good visualizers.

02:29:14.000 When you can, you know, kids that are, maybe it's an oncology department at like one of the pediatric hospitals.

02:29:19.000 When you can help them visualize their immune system actually working against the cancer or overcoming something, or you can project yourself into the future healed.

02:29:30.000 Happy, well, and you engage with that and you feel into that and you project that into the future.

02:29:36.000 That perspective shifts the physiology.

02:29:39.000 The psycho-neuro-immunological triad shifts towards healing just because of the power of the mind.

02:29:46.000 That is wild.

02:29:47.000 There's a placebo effect involved in being a housekeeper. 1.00

02:29:50.000 Totally.

02:29:51.000 Well, it wasn't just about being a housekeeper, it was about being athletically engaged in what they were doing. 1.00

02:29:57.000 Yeah, they told one group of housekeepers that the exercise that they were doing met the Surgeon General's quota for a healthy exercise for an individual.

02:30:07.000 They used big terms like that.

02:30:08.000 Met the Surgeon General's quota.

02:30:10.000 And then they told the other people nothing.

02:30:12.000 And then they watched the difference in the groups between, and they were all cleaning hotel rooms, and it was randomized.

02:30:18.000 And the people who felt that they were meeting the Surgeon General's requirement for exercise had all of these dramatic improvements in weight loss and all these physiological markers.

02:30:29.000 That's so crazy! 0.97

02:30:31.000 That's just, human beings in our minds are so fucking strange. 0.96

02:30:36.000 And the power of the mind is so immense. 0.94

02:30:39.000 And it feels like this has only been really discovered over the last hundred years.

02:30:43.000 Like, even remotely.

02:30:45.000 And more so now than ever before.

02:30:46.000 It's like an onion that's continually peeled.

02:30:49.000 Like, no, I don't think, there's a lot of layers here.

02:30:51.000 Let's keep going.

02:30:52.000 Peeling back layer and layer and layer and just we're slowly starting to unveil the power and the properties and subsequently a management system for this incredible engine that we have to construct our environment.

02:31:06.000 Yeah, Joe Dispenza just wrote a book, You're the Placebo, and he's got all, he's got the great scientific background.

02:31:13.000 What is his name?

02:31:14.000 It's called You Are the Placebo, Joe Dispenza.

02:31:16.000 Dispenza.

02:31:17.000 Yeah, he has a ton of articles in there.

02:31:20.000 That was, I think I was talking about in the last.

02:31:22.000 What's his name?

02:31:22.000 D-I-S-P-E-N-Z-A. And he was the one who cites all of these examples of these placebo surgeries, these sham surgeries, like arthroscopic knee surgeries that they did where they did a placebo knee surgery and a real knee surgery and found that the outcomes were identical.

02:31:39.000 And in some cases, the people with the placebo knee surgery where they basically cut the skin and sewed it back up.

02:31:45.000 They had better outcomes than the people who had actual knee surgery.

02:31:48.000 Like things that you think should not have a placebo effect, like if you're going to have knee surgery, it's probably pretty important that you're going to do that.

02:31:55.000 No, you can actually cut the skin, tell somebody, yep, surgery went great, and they'll recover better than the people who actually got the surgery in some cases.

02:32:03.000 Wasn't that dude in that video, What the Bleep Do We Know?

02:32:06.000 Mm-hmm.

02:32:07.000 Totally.

02:32:07.000 Unfortunately.

02:32:10.000 And back then, you know, that was kind of like the leading edge, too, of this whole mind-body experience.

02:32:16.000 And it was, you know, showed with kind of the meeting of science and metaphysics.

02:32:21.000 Up until that ramp, the lady came on screen. 1.00

02:32:23.000 And then you're like, wait a minute, what's your name?

02:32:26.000 Hold on.

02:32:27.000 What's going on here?

02:32:27.000 You're a thousand years old?

02:32:29.000 Okay. 0.71

02:32:30.000 You're in a thousand year old spirit that is embodied in this woman, and you're talking nonsense. 0.99

02:32:35.000 Everybody else seems to be talking science. 1.00

02:32:36.000 And you organize this bitch? 1.00

02:32:38.000 You organize this whole thing. 1.00

02:32:39.000 Okay.

02:32:40.000 Yeah.

02:32:41.000 What?

02:32:42.000 Right?

02:32:42.000 Wasn't that what the bleep do we know?

02:32:45.000 What the bleep do we know was so goddamn confusing because there was some really interesting stuff in there.

02:32:49.000 There was some really sound science in that. 0.99

02:32:51.000 Yeah, and there was also some fucking flaming, rocketing horseshit. 0.99

02:32:57.000 Projectile horseshit. 0.99

02:32:58.000 Right. 0.99

02:32:58.000 It's like you couldn't get away. 0.99

02:33:01.000 Get out of here! 0.99

02:33:03.000 That's kind of the nature of our world now, right?

02:33:06.000 Like, the skill of everything is not being able to throw away all apples with worms in them. 0.99

02:33:11.000 The skill of our world is to be able to cut out worms effectively and then eat the fucking apple. 0.94

02:33:16.000 And also recognize it in human beings that you maybe like some aspects of them. 0.99

02:33:22.000 Right.

02:33:22.000 I was having a conversation with a friend of mine about this guy that we know that is clearly in some ways a weasel.

02:33:30.000 He's just, he's weasely and he's super ambitious and you can't trust him and he's not, he's just not cool and he had a bunch of like really bad interactions with other people that I know. 0.99

02:33:41.000 That came to me independently and said, look, this guy's a fucking fraud. 1.00

02:33:44.000 This guy's a piece of shit. 1.00

02:33:45.000 But I know him to be also a very good dispenser of interesting information. 1.00

02:33:51.000 When I communicate with him, he is really good at dispensing this information.

02:33:58.000 He gathers it.

02:33:59.000 He's dedicated to it.

02:34:01.000 And there's a lot of positive qualities in that.

02:34:04.000 He actually enjoys expressing himself in this way.

02:34:08.000 But then all the other stuff, it makes it so hard.

02:34:11.000 So some people just write him off.

02:34:12.000 And I'm like, I can't write him off.

02:34:13.000 I can't write him off totally.

02:34:15.000 But unfortunately, he's an exercise.

02:34:17.000 He's an exercise in recognizing how much of these qualities are positive.

02:34:22.000 And how much of what he is is just douche.

02:34:25.000 I think I've seen that when I've dealt with different shamans and spiritual teachers, you know, where people tend to want to put them on a pedestal as this being that's this perfect being.

02:34:35.000 And then as soon as they see something a little flawed, they're like, oh my God, my holy savior is not the holy savior I think.

02:34:44.000 It's like, no, he's just not perfect like everybody else.

02:34:47.000 He's still really good at this and this. 0.56

02:34:49.000 And just accept him for that and watch out for this little shitty part that he's still working on. 0.71

02:34:54.000 It's okay. 0.97

02:34:55.000 He's still trying to get laid.

02:34:56.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:34:57.000 People, especially in that arena, they demand this level that's just not realistic.

02:35:04.000 They demand this intense perfection.

02:35:06.000 That was one of the things that people will bring up, the detractors of Terrence McKenna. 0.99

02:35:11.000 They always bring up the fact that he had some holes in his science and some of his stuff was bullshit. 0.99

02:35:18.000 Maybe. 0.99

02:35:19.000 But you can't listen to his hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of available hours of lectures that he had and not be inspired.

02:35:27.000 Right.

02:35:27.000 If you have any psychedelic curiosity and you listen to this unbelievably free thinker, this guy who's just like really willing to put himself out there in some sort of a...

02:35:37.000 And, you know, maybe he missed the mark occasionally, but he's shooting a lot of fucking arrows. 0.98

02:35:41.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:35:41.000 You know? 0.99

02:35:42.000 There's even more extreme examples. 1.00

02:35:44.000 Like, I just recently found out what a crazy fuck Carlos Castaneda was. 1.00

02:35:48.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

02:35:49.000 He was insane. 0.92

02:35:50.000 He was yelling at people. 0.59

02:35:51.000 He may have even convinced these women who he was dating to at least disappear when he died.

02:35:57.000 I don't know.

02:35:57.000 They might have committed suicide.

02:35:58.000 Who even knows?

02:35:59.000 There's a lot of speculation because all the women he was dating disappeared when he died.

02:36:03.000 So he was possibly even a bad person.

02:36:06.000 Like, straight up, not a good person.

02:36:08.000 But nonetheless, you know, I'll put a quote from Castaneda out. 1.00

02:36:12.000 And, you know, people will just, oh, he was a crazy fuck. 0.99

02:36:15.000 It's like, yeah, but this thing makes sense. 1.00

02:36:17.000 This little pit of philosophy still makes sense and is still valuable, even if he was a crazy fucking person. 0.99

02:36:23.000 Like, be able to cut out the worm and say, admit, like, yeah. 1.00

02:36:27.000 That dude was not a fucking good dude. 0.95

02:36:28.000 But he had some ideas that can be valuable when taken and applied. 0.99

02:36:33.000 And you get to that, you'll level up way faster because you'll get to keep more gems than other people who are just discarding everything.

02:36:41.000 It's like the Jeet Kune Do of life. 0.98

02:36:43.000 Yeah.

02:36:44.000 Absorb what is useful.

02:36:45.000 Exactly.

02:36:46.000 Exactly.

02:36:47.000 Bruce Lee had it nailed.

02:36:48.000 Perfect.

02:36:49.000 Yeah, perfect.

02:36:50.000 And do your shadow work.

02:36:52.000 Yeah.

02:36:52.000 Shadow work?

02:36:53.000 Yeah, which is oftentimes what happens in the psychedelic experience or even flotation.

02:36:57.000 What do you mean by shadow work?

02:36:58.000 Like recognize within yourself, ourselves, what's behind the curtain.

02:37:04.000 Like being able to see those aspects of myself that I haven't fully integrated, fully accepted.

02:37:10.000 Because it's only my projection and judgment of somebody else is only a reflection of the shadow material that I haven't integrated myself.

02:37:18.000 And usually it's those things that I project onto others that I'm so emotionally connected to or people that really piss me off in a particular way.

02:37:27.000 That's related to my own shadow work in that other side of the coin.

02:37:31.000 Right.

02:37:31.000 That I haven't looked at yet.

02:37:32.000 Like the person saying there's no such thing as a sex drive.

02:37:36.000 Yeah, look at her shadow work. 1.00

02:37:37.000 What's there?

02:37:38.000 What's behind that?

02:37:39.000 Or his.

02:37:39.000 I don't remember if it's a man or a woman.

02:37:40.000 But either way, no one's fucking her. 0.99

02:37:42.000 Or him. 0.99

02:37:43.000 Right.

02:37:43.000 No one wants to.

02:37:44.000 It's not happening.

02:37:45.000 You know, I'll tell you who doesn't talk about that.

02:37:48.000 Jennifer Lopez. 1.00

02:37:50.000 That bitch knows there's a sex drive. 1.00

02:37:52.000 She's built an empire off of it. 1.00

02:37:54.000 Right.

02:37:55.000 Let's end this pitch.

02:37:57.000 This was a lot of fun.

02:37:58.000 Let's do it.

02:37:58.000 Thank you.

02:37:59.000 Thank you, brother.

02:37:59.000 A lot of fun.

02:38:00.000 Thank you.

02:38:01.000 Great conversation.

02:38:02.000 And so, to get in touch with you, your Twitter is...

02:38:08.000 At DrDanEngle.

02:38:10.000 DrDanEngle, E-N-G-L-E. Yep.

02:38:14.000 Yeah, D-R-D-A-N-E-N-G-L-E. And of course, Aubrey Marcus is Aubrey Marcus on Twitter.

02:38:24.000 And anything else to say?

02:38:26.000 Anything to promote?

02:38:28.000 Anybody...

02:38:29.000 Anything important?

02:38:30.000 No, man.

02:38:30.000 A lot of cool stuff going on, but we'll all follow us on the social channels.

02:38:34.000 We'll point the finger at the moon.

02:38:35.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:38:36.000 Cool shit. 0.99

02:38:37.000 And remember to don't concentrate only on the finger, because then you'll miss, I forget the quote, Bruce Lee, all the heavenly groin that lies beyond. 0.99

02:38:47.000 Dan Engel, thank you very much, sir.

02:38:48.000 Appreciate it.

02:38:49.000 Good times.

02:38:50.000 See you soon.

02:38:51.000 Bye-bye.

02:38:59.000 Bye!

The Joe Rogan Experience - May 11, 2015

Joe Rogan Experience #646 - Dr. Dan Engle & Aubrey Marcus

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Summary

Transcript