The Joe Rogan Experience


Joe Rogan Experience #672 - Dr. Rhonda Patrick


Summary

On this week's episode, the boys are joined by Dr. Aaron Horschig to talk about Kombucha, the benefits of saunas, and the dangers of drinking too much water. Also, we talk about how you can die from drinking too little water and not much, and how that's a good thing. Also, the guys talk about a new study that shows sauna use can reduce all-cause mortality by up to 40% and that it's all down to how often you go to the sauna and how much you should be doing it. This episode is brought to you by Anchor.fm and produced by Riley Bray. Music by PSOVOD and tyops. Thanks to Pale Fire and Mossy Creek Records for sponsoring this episode. Art: Mackenzie Moore Music: Hayden Coplen Editor: Patrick Muldowney Editor: Will Witwer Music: Jeff Kaale (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 45, 47, 45 , 47, 48, 48 , 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 56, 57, 54, 58, 59, , 51, , , 54, & , and , we have a special guest, Dr. Mark Maron! of the podcast, we have our good friend Dr. . . . Dr. Dr. Michael Eichner (PhD . and Dr. Sarah ( ) joins us to discuss his new book, "Sauna and the benefits and benefits of a sauna. and his new podcast, "The Benefits of a Sauna. , which is out now in the new book "The Sauna and Other People's Sauna." The Sauna, "Aromoblogbook, the book, Sauna & is out in the next episode, and we also have a new podcast in the podcast is out on all of our social media platforms, we will be covering the book , the book is out soon! and the podcast will be out in paperback!


Transcript

00:00:01.000 And we're live.
00:00:02.000 Hello.
00:00:03.000 Hi.
00:00:04.000 Good to see you again.
00:00:05.000 Great to see you.
00:00:05.000 What's cracking?
00:00:07.000 My kombucha's cracking.
00:00:08.000 Did you get the real stuff?
00:00:10.000 Yes, I've been addicted to this.
00:00:12.000 I need to start making my own kombucha, but I've been drinking this now.
00:00:14.000 Ever since you told me about the dark container having more, you know.
00:00:18.000 Yeah, they went really silly for a while at Whole Foods.
00:00:22.000 They had to pull all of the dark container ones, and then they created a watered-down version of it.
00:00:27.000 They had to get, like, a license to sell it because it's more than one-half of 1% alcohol.
00:00:32.000 Right.
00:00:32.000 I've never heard of anybody getting drunk from it.
00:00:35.000 But Mark Maron tweeted it.
00:00:37.000 He said, I just tried kombucha.
00:00:39.000 Is this beer?
00:00:41.000 He's like, I think I have a buzz.
00:00:42.000 But you have to drink, like, what is normal beer?
00:00:46.000 Like 5% alcohol in America?
00:00:47.000 So you'd have to drink 20 of those?
00:00:49.000 To get, like, somewhat of a buzz.
00:00:51.000 To drink a beer.
00:00:53.000 To get a beer.
00:00:54.000 20 of those is a beer.
00:00:55.000 And you would be...
00:00:56.000 You would probably die from drinking too much.
00:00:59.000 Like, you'd be one of those people that dies from too much water.
00:01:01.000 You know how that happens?
00:01:02.000 Have you ever heard...
00:01:03.000 You've heard of that, right?
00:01:04.000 I've heard of that, yeah.
00:01:05.000 A woman died in San Jose, I believe it was.
00:01:07.000 They had one of those radio contests, and if you drank the most water, you won something, like an Xbox.
00:01:14.000 She's trying to win an Xbox for a kid, and she fucking died.
00:01:18.000 I haven't heard of it just from drinking.
00:01:20.000 I've heard of it happening after you've exerted yourself, like very strenuously, like after a marathon or something, and then you drink a bunch of water.
00:01:27.000 And the salts that you basically excrete out, like you're totally imbalanced.
00:01:31.000 But I've never heard of that.
00:01:32.000 Yeah, I've heard of it one other time.
00:01:35.000 It was a frat thing.
00:01:37.000 When there were those frat...
00:01:39.000 What are those called?
00:01:41.000 Hazing.
00:01:42.000 Yeah, hazing.
00:01:43.000 You know, when they're trying to get you to join a frat, they get you to do stupid stuff.
00:01:47.000 And one of the things they did is get these guys to drink just gallons of water.
00:01:50.000 And one guy died.
00:01:52.000 Apparently you can die from water.
00:01:54.000 Just plain old water.
00:01:55.000 You can die from anything.
00:01:56.000 It's all about the dose.
00:01:57.000 Right?
00:01:58.000 God damn it.
00:01:59.000 It's all about the dose.
00:02:01.000 Sauna.
00:02:02.000 Since you've been here last, boy, I've read so much stuff about the sauna, about the benefits of the sauna, and then you published that thing saying there's a 40% decrease in mortality on basically on everything?
00:02:16.000 Well, I didn't publish it.
00:02:17.000 Someone else published it.
00:02:18.000 I'm sorry, you tweeted it.
00:02:20.000 Yes.
00:02:21.000 I did.
00:02:22.000 I wrote an article on some of the health benefits of the sauna, and I predicted that I thought it would play a role in longevity based on some other evidence.
00:02:30.000 And then this study came out showing, indeed, that there is a link between sauna use and a decrease in all-cause mortality.
00:02:38.000 So people dying from cancer, from cardiovascular disease, from a variety of different diseases.
00:02:43.000 And that was like...
00:02:45.000 A big decrease, right?
00:02:46.000 40% or something?
00:02:48.000 Yeah.
00:02:48.000 Well, there was a dose-dependent decrease in all-cause mortality.
00:02:53.000 So men that used the sauna once a week compared to those that used it two to three times a week, they had a 24% decrease in all-cause mortality.
00:03:02.000 And men that used it like four to seven times a week had a 40% decrease in all-cause mortality.
00:03:08.000 When I say a 40% decrease in all-cause mortality, I mean over the time span that these men were followed, which was 20 years.
00:03:13.000 So they're following these men for 20 years.
00:03:16.000 They were in there between 50 to 65 when the study started.
00:03:20.000 And those men that had been using the sauna more frequently had a 40% reduction in dying from many causes that aren't accidental.
00:03:29.000 That's amazing.
00:03:31.000 Yeah, it's super, super cool.
00:03:36.000 There's a lot of things going on with the sauna.
00:03:39.000 The place I'm staying at has a steam shower, so I just had a steam shower before I came here.
00:03:43.000 I'm all endorphin, buzzed, and feeling good.
00:03:46.000 Does that work just as good?
00:03:47.000 Um, it's, you know, it doesn't get as hot as like a typical dry sauna where, you know, the air is, it's like 174, 79 degrees Fahrenheit, which is pretty damn hot.
00:04:02.000 Jesus Christ.
00:04:03.000 That's how hot they get?
00:04:04.000 Yeah.
00:04:05.000 That's like, like in my gym, that's, that's pretty, pretty much the temperature.
00:04:08.000 It's like 170 degrees Fahrenheit.
00:04:11.000 So that's hot.
00:04:12.000 Steam showers, they get hot, and I definitely feel my heart racing.
00:04:19.000 So what happens when you're in heat is your heart starts to race, much like cardiovascular exercise, where your heart starts to beat between 100 and sometimes 150 beats.
00:04:29.000 So it's pretty fast.
00:04:31.000 And part of the benefit of that is you have increased plasma and blood flow to the heart, so the heart's actually doing less work than it normally would do.
00:04:41.000 And that's part of the cardiovascular benefits that are associated with exercise and sauna use.
00:04:48.000 But the sauna, in addition to that, has other effects.
00:04:51.000 So heat stress is a stress, as is exercise.
00:04:55.000 And the stress activates all these stress response mechanisms in the body.
00:05:02.000 And that's really good.
00:05:03.000 And that's part of the benefit from exercise.
00:05:05.000 It's part of the benefit from any type of, you know, good stress.
00:05:08.000 So heat specifically will activate something called heat shock proteins.
00:05:14.000 So it's a gene that makes something called heat shock proteins.
00:05:17.000 And they're a class of proteins that are activated by heat.
00:05:20.000 So when you exercise and your core body temperature raises, they get activated.
00:05:25.000 And heat shock proteins are pretty awesome because they are able to prevent a certain type of damage that accumulates in our cell from happening.
00:05:35.000 And if you think about the causes of aging, it's an accumulation of damage that's happening in the cell, like if you're looking at it at the molecular level, the cellular level.
00:05:44.000 And part of that damage occurs in proteins that we make, you know.
00:05:47.000 So genes are DNA is the genetic code.
00:05:51.000 It makes RNA. RNA gets translated into proteins.
00:05:54.000 And proteins are doing all the work inside of our body.
00:05:56.000 So for example, glutathione peroxidase is a very potent antioxidant.
00:06:01.000 It's an enzyme that's using glutathione to do all this great antioxidant stuff.
00:06:06.000 That's a protein.
00:06:07.000 It's the type of protein.
00:06:08.000 So proteins inside of our cells, as we age, they start to dysfunction.
00:06:12.000 They start to aggregate.
00:06:13.000 They aggregate in our blood vessels.
00:06:15.000 It can lead to plaques.
00:06:16.000 They aggregate in our brains, amyloid beta plaques.
00:06:19.000 And this happens, you know, this increases as we age.
00:06:21.000 But heat shock proteins prevent that from happening.
00:06:24.000 And so heat stress activates them.
00:06:26.000 And when you have heat stress and they're activated, they're actually activated for a long period of time.
00:06:31.000 In some cases it can be like a couple of weeks.
00:06:34.000 So it's kind of like you do this heat stress and then two weeks later you still have these activated heat shock proteins which are preventing all this damage from accumulating in your cells.
00:06:44.000 What's really interesting is that if you look in like worms or flies, You expose them to one heat shock, meaning you increase the temperature for 15 minutes, and it increases their lifespan by 15%.
00:06:58.000 So that's pretty cool.
00:07:01.000 Also, people that have a certain variation of the heat shock gene that makes these proteins, that makes them active all the time, They're more likely to be a centenarian.
00:07:11.000 So they actually have a higher chance of living to be 100. So there's definitely evidence that these heat shock proteins are involved in longevity.
00:07:21.000 We know the mechanism.
00:07:22.000 We know that heat helps activate them, and they're doing all this good stuff.
00:07:27.000 They also prevent muscle atrophy, and that's been shown in mice, for example.
00:07:30.000 If you make a mouse immobile, So it can't move like its hind limb, for example, for like seven days and you let it like use kind of like a sauna where it's like a whole body heat shock for 30 minutes a day.
00:07:43.000 They are able to regrow their muscles faster and they have less muscle atrophy than mice that are not exposed to the heat but are also immobile.
00:07:52.000 So I think the heat shock proteins are one possible way.
00:07:55.000 It plays a role in longevity.
00:07:56.000 And the other way is by activating this other pathway that's really, really awesome.
00:08:02.000 And it's called FOX03. And it's a little heavy.
00:08:05.000 I don't want to get too technical here.
00:08:07.000 Too late.
00:08:08.000 It's kind of cool because this VOXO3 gets activated by exercise.
00:08:11.000 It gets activated by heat.
00:08:14.000 And what it does is it activates this whole host of genes.
00:08:19.000 Genes that are like glutathione, antioxidant genes.
00:08:22.000 It activates genes that are involved in repairing damage to your DNA, which can lead to cancer.
00:08:28.000 It repairs damage to your entire cell, which can lead to the cell dying, and if that happens in your stem cells, your stem cell pools go down.
00:08:35.000 So FOXO3, it's doing so much.
00:08:38.000 And FOXO3, I've actually worked with it in worms, some of the early research I did in aging.
00:08:46.000 We could take a worm and make it always have it, by genetically engineering it, we could make it always have an active FOXO3. And these worms live between 50 to 100% longer.
00:08:56.000 So the worm lifespan is usually around 15 days, but it could live to a maximum of 30 days when you have it always having this FOXO3 reactive.
00:09:05.000 And humans that actually have a variation in this gene.
00:09:09.000 So variations in genes are what makes us all different, right?
00:09:13.000 So we all have different variations of genes.
00:09:16.000 And if they happen in a percentage of the population that's more than 1%, it's called a polymorphism because it's not just random mutation.
00:09:24.000 Well, this FOX03 is a polymorphism because quite a bit of the, you know, percentage of the population has a form of it that has it active a lot.
00:09:32.000 And those people that have it have a 2.7-fold increased chance of living to be 100. And what happens, people that have this often are able to handle stress better.
00:09:44.000 So they're able to, for example, you've heard of people that are like 100 and they've smoked cigarettes.
00:09:48.000 And you're like, how have you smoked cigarettes for 50 years and lived to be 100?
00:09:52.000 Like, what's going on there?
00:09:54.000 Well, oftentimes people have this overactive FOXO3 where they can handle the smoking stress, they can handle, you know, drinking a lot, they can handle just a poor lifestyle because they're able to detoxify things, they're able to clean up the mess, you know, get the damage out and so it's not accumulating and doing all this bad stuff.
00:10:13.000 So, sauna activates that.
00:10:15.000 And I'm totally speculating here.
00:10:17.000 This wasn't shown in the paper.
00:10:19.000 The paper was an associative study.
00:10:21.000 So, it basically looked at these about 2,000 men that were using the sauna and then said, okay, well, in a dose-dependent manner, meaning the more often they use the sauna, the less likely they were to die of cardiovascular diseases.
00:10:34.000 Pick your choice of heart attacks, coronary artery disease, coronary heart disease, atherosclerosis, et cetera, et cetera, cancer.
00:10:43.000 So these were all down in men that use the sauna more frequently.
00:10:47.000 So I think that's pretty cool and I really think part of that is that hormetic response where you're stressing your body with heat to activate these heat shock proteins or FOXO3 and other things that are then Active for a longer period of time and help you deal with stress,
00:11:03.000 with the stress of aging, with the stress of breathing in oxygen, which does a lot of damage.
00:11:09.000 Just breathing in oxygen and the way we make energy, we use oxygen and we eat food and that's coupled to make energy and that process generates damage just as a metabolic byproduct.
00:11:20.000 So I think that's really cool that the sauna is able to activate those really important genetic pathways.
00:11:27.000 That's fascinating, unbelievably fascinating.
00:11:30.000 Now, oxygen, if oxygen creates damage, then how does hyperbaric chambers work?
00:11:36.000 Because it's a more purified or more intense version of oxygen, compressed oxygen?
00:11:43.000 I don't know.
00:11:44.000 I think that I'm a little wary of hyperbaric chambers because it does create damage, having more oxygen.
00:11:52.000 But it really depends on the context.
00:11:54.000 Are we talking about someone that isn't getting enough oxygen to their brain because the blood-brain barrier has been damaged?
00:12:01.000 So in that context, hyperbaric treatment can help.
00:12:05.000 Get more oxygen.
00:12:06.000 So I don't know if hyperbaric treatment is great for like your everyday person because it does it does create damage more damage Well, that's so weird that it creates damage because it's being touted as something that helps repair damage Like that's where athletes use it.
00:12:21.000 They use it to heal broken bones quicker injured tendons surgery Well, I mean, yeah, that makes sense in a way, too, because you're, you know, you're carrying, your red blood cells are carrying, you know, more red blood cells are carrying goodies to that side of damage.
00:12:35.000 So it's kind of like a trade-off, you know, but oxygen itself does cause damage.
00:12:40.000 Like, it just, I think it just depends on the context.
00:12:43.000 I think some folks even use it for anti-aging, if I remember correctly, that there's some proponents of anti-aging treatments using the hyperbaric chamber on a regular basis.
00:12:53.000 That's interesting.
00:12:54.000 Yeah.
00:12:54.000 One of the reasons why I brought it up is because there was an article on Joe Namath.
00:12:59.000 Joe Namath, the famous football player.
00:13:01.000 Do you know who he is?
00:13:02.000 The name sounds familiar.
00:13:04.000 How dare you?
00:13:05.000 What kind of an American are you, Rhonda Patrick?
00:13:07.000 I know.
00:13:07.000 My dad would be so disappointed.
00:13:10.000 Joe Namath was a very famous football player from the 70s, who, a lot of damage, like every football player, a lot of concussions, and apparently he has been using the hyperbaric chamber.
00:13:22.000 I should say it right, because I'm not sure if I'm saying hyperbaric or hypo-baric.
00:13:26.000 Hyper.
00:13:26.000 But there's two, right?
00:13:27.000 Isn't there two different types?
00:13:28.000 Hyper would be more oxygen, hypo would be less.
00:13:31.000 Okay, so there's two different types of chambers that they have, and the less oxygen one is for what benefit?
00:13:37.000 The less oxygen one, I'm not sure what they would use that for.
00:13:41.000 Do they use that?
00:13:42.000 I believe so.
00:13:44.000 Maybe Jamie can find out for us.
00:13:46.000 But Joe Namath has been using, I believe he's been using the Hyperbaric, and there was an article on it that he...
00:13:53.000 Remarkably, because he's in his 70s, and most of these football players, I don't know if you saw that real sports piece with Bryant Gumbel, because we talked pretty extensively about brain damage last time you were here, because it was right after I brought you to a UFC, and you and Dan came back all scrambled.
00:14:08.000 You were like, what the fuck did we just watch?
00:14:11.000 But the hyperbaric chamber has been helping Joe Namath deal with the relatively minor reactions to concussions that he has had because he's pretty lucid.
00:14:26.000 He had some substance abuse problems and things along those lines that I'm sure probably affected his cognitive function as well.
00:14:33.000 But as far as a 70-year-old former professional football player, Doing pretty well.
00:14:38.000 Yeah.
00:14:39.000 And this treatment apparently has really helped him quite a bit.
00:14:42.000 So it makes sense because in the sense of oxygen is required for metabolism.
00:14:49.000 And in order to repair anything, metabolism meaning you need to make energy.
00:14:54.000 So in order to repair a ligament that's been wounded or brain damage, anything, Oxygen is part of that component to generate energy.
00:15:04.000 Oxygen plus food, whether that's carbohydrates or fatty acids.
00:15:09.000 Your energy source doesn't matter.
00:15:13.000 Those two things coupled together is how we make energy.
00:15:17.000 So the more oxygen you have in, and that's part of how cardiorespiratory fitness comes into play too.
00:15:22.000 People that can breathe in more oxygen and they're able to actually make more energy.
00:15:29.000 In that sense, it would help because one, you're able to get the oxygen to your cells, which have mitochondria, which is where the energy is made, the oxygen coupled with the food that you take in.
00:15:41.000 So that's one possibility that makes sense.
00:15:45.000 And the other would be, like I said, with the brain injury, where you're In some cases, people can't.
00:15:49.000 Their blood-brain barrier is damaged, and so they're not getting enough oxygen into the brain, and so the hyperbaric treatment can help get more oxygen.
00:15:56.000 Because you have to get the oxygen to the brain to make energy.
00:16:00.000 Your neurons need oxygen to make energy.
00:16:02.000 So that makes sense.
00:16:05.000 But again, There's always a byproduct of that metabolic reaction and that byproduct is damage in the form of oxygen superoxide, which is very reactive, or hydrogen peroxide.
00:16:17.000 Both those things are produced as a byproduct of using the oxygen for energy.
00:16:22.000 How bizarre that oxygen is necessary but yet damaging us at the same time.
00:16:27.000 It's one of the major...
00:16:29.000 If you're just looking at a baseline level of damage that we're all accumulating as the days go on, as the weeks go by, years...
00:16:39.000 It's partly just from breathing in oxygen and eating food and that process of creating energy.
00:16:46.000 There's nothing you can do about it, and that's part of the aging process.
00:16:49.000 It creates these reactive products that damage the DNA in our cells, that damage proteins, that damage the whole cell itself.
00:16:57.000 And people that have poor metabolism, inefficient metabolism, people that have higher levels of inflammation, it's worse.
00:17:06.000 So they're accelerating that damage.
00:17:09.000 Is there any benefit health-wise to living in a high-altitude environment that has low oxygen?
00:17:14.000 I don't know.
00:17:16.000 Because mountain people are strong as fuck.
00:17:18.000 You know, you always like think of mountain people as like these like really hardy folk that just seemingly can just kind of get by under extreme circumstances and conditions that us low-lying sea level folk struggle at.
00:17:33.000 Is that just bullshit?
00:17:35.000 Maybe because the altitude is a type of stress that's activating all this stress response mechanism.
00:17:40.000 Well, all the extra blood cells they have.
00:17:42.000 You know, that's the reason why athletes go and train at high altitude.
00:17:45.000 And have you seen those tents that people sleep in?
00:17:48.000 It's an interesting thing that a lot of fighters started doing.
00:17:51.000 They start sleeping in these high altitude tents.
00:17:54.000 Because apparently the way to do it best is they think you should live at high altitude but train at sea level.
00:18:01.000 So if you could, like, live at a place like Big Bear, where you're at 5,000 plus feet above sea level, and then go down to, say, like, you know, Santa Monica or something like that to train, where you're at sea level.
00:18:13.000 So that way you would be able to put out more work output, because the fact is it's a more oxygen-rich environment, you can train harder, you'll have more energy, and then when you recover, you're recovering in a low-altitude environment, and apparently that's the best combination as far as athletic results.
00:18:29.000 Mm-hmm.
00:18:30.000 And that's been shown?
00:18:31.000 Yeah.
00:18:32.000 See, the problem is these protocols, they move with the tides.
00:18:39.000 People, they have these ideas that you've got to do it this way, and then they change it, and then you've got to do it that way.
00:18:45.000 We're good to go.
00:19:02.000 I found that to be pretty fascinating, too, because I know that there's definitely negative or definitely rather positive benefits of cryotherapy, which is a different situation.
00:19:13.000 It's not cold water immersion.
00:19:15.000 You're dealing with 250 degrees below zero for short periods of time, and your body develops, produces cytokines, right?
00:19:22.000 Is that what I say?
00:19:22.000 Which are a type of protein as well.
00:19:25.000 And apparently your body really only wants to produce these when it's cold as fuck.
00:19:31.000 So, I first became interested in this cold shock, as the scientists called it, whether that's by cold water immersion or cryotherapy or whatever, like last January when a paper came out that showed cold shocking can regrow synapses that are lost.
00:19:55.000 And I was like, whoa, that's really cool.
00:19:57.000 Because synapses are what connect two neurons together.
00:20:02.000 And it's essentially when you learn something, when you experience something, a synapse forms.
00:20:06.000 And that's a memory.
00:20:07.000 Whether that's a memory of an experience or it's a memory of something that you learned, it's a memory.
00:20:13.000 And as we age, we lose synapses.
00:20:16.000 We lose those memories.
00:20:17.000 You know, that's worse with neurodegenerative diseases and things like that.
00:20:20.000 Traumatic brain injury, you lose synapses.
00:20:23.000 And so I was like, that's really cool that something about the cold can regrow these synapses.
00:20:29.000 Well, it turns out that, like, scientists started looking at this by looking at hibernating mammals.
00:20:34.000 They're looking at bears and, like, other rodents that...
00:20:38.000 that hibernate or squirrels I think they were and what they found was that these during hibernation when it's cold they lose between 30 to 40 percent of their synapses and then when it warms up in the spring they totally regrow them back and so their scientists were like whoa what's going on there so they further did some studies in mice and they showed that if they cold shocked a mouse by exposing it to like What would be like a refrigerator,
00:21:04.000 so like 40 degrees Fahrenheit, for like 30 minutes.
00:21:08.000 These mice were able to induce what's called cold shock proteins, which are...
00:21:13.000 I talked about the heat shock proteins.
00:21:14.000 Well, cold shock proteins are part of the stress response because cold is a stress.
00:21:19.000 And so most things shut down when you're cold, except for this class of proteins called cold shock proteins, which go up.
00:21:27.000 And apparently there's one specific one called RBM3 that goes up in the brain.
00:21:32.000 It also goes up in muscle.
00:21:34.000 And it is able to basically regenerate these synapses because it It makes more protein.
00:21:42.000 So it sits there like on the dendritic spine, which is part of the neuron that talks to other neurons, and it's able to regrow the synapse.
00:21:49.000 So anyways, I thought that was super cool.
00:21:51.000 They were able to show that in mice after just one exposure to this cold shock.
00:21:56.000 The caveat is that the core body temperature of these animals went down to like 60 degrees Fahrenheit.
00:22:02.000 Their core body temperature is normally like 98.6.
00:22:05.000 So that's a huge change in core body temperature.
00:22:08.000 If they expose them twice to this cold shock, they're able to increase the expression of this RBM3, this cold shock protein that regrow synapses for Six weeks in their brain.
00:22:19.000 And then they went on to get these mice that were genetically engineered to get Alzheimer's disease.
00:22:24.000 They exposed them earlier in their life before they started having symptoms.
00:22:28.000 They exposed them twice and it totally delayed the symptoms.
00:22:31.000 They didn't have the cognitive deficits and behavioral deficits.
00:22:35.000 Their brains didn't have all the amyloid plaque accumulation and it extended their lifespan.
00:22:40.000 So, I read the study and I was like, this is freaking cool because it potentially has huge implications for brain aging in general, for neurodegenerative diseases, for traumatic brain injury.
00:22:53.000 Of course, it hasn't been shown in humans and I have no clue.
00:22:57.000 The question is what the minimal effective dose of cold is.
00:23:00.000 Can you sit in a cryo chamber that's like a minus 160 degrees Fahrenheit for two minutes and Activate this cold shock protein.
00:23:10.000 I don't know.
00:23:10.000 That hasn't been shown, but it'll be really interesting to find out.
00:23:14.000 You mentioned the differences between, you know, cold shock and its effects on athletic performance, recovery, even muscle hypertrophy.
00:23:26.000 So the literature out there is kind of confusing because it really...
00:23:34.000 There's so many different factors that come into play when you're doing a clinical trial like this, where you're, you know, having an athlete that's either trained or untrained, engaged in some sort of physical activity that's either very strenuous or it's moderate, and then you're doing a cold shock,
00:23:51.000 whether that's, you know, cold water immersion or it's cryotherapy.
00:23:54.000 When you do the cold shock and then what you're measuring and when you're measuring it.
00:23:58.000 So there's so many different parameters that you have to look at because they can have different effects.
00:24:03.000 And part of the reason for that is when you do exercise, it is a stress and the stress that happens.
00:24:12.000 So you're basically forcing your muscles to work harder, which means they need to make more energy.
00:24:18.000 So, you know, that can cause more damage.
00:24:21.000 This damage happens because of the oxygen byproducts, but also inflammatory molecules get made, pro-inflammatory molecules.
00:24:29.000 So, you know, and when those things happen, the response of the body to that is to make So, to make anti-inflammatory molecules, and this has been shown empirically if you look at athletes that train really hard, within,
00:24:45.000 like, immediately after training, there's a huge increase in these pro-inflammatory cytokines, things that can, if they go out of control, can cause more damage, damage to muscle tissue and cartilage and things like that.
00:24:56.000 But then an hour later, there's a huge response, an anti-inflammatory response, that cytokines that are able to promote wound healing, they're able to regenerate tissue damage and things like that.
00:25:07.000 That happens an hour later.
00:25:08.000 And that's happening because of the stress that's induced.
00:25:12.000 But if you're looking at the dose, the exercise dose, that really sort of dictates how much of that bad stuff that you're going to make.
00:25:23.000 So if you're a competitive athlete, or if you're a professional athlete, or someone that's really, really training hard, you tend to actually make Much, much more of these pro-inflammatory cytokines like IL-1, beta, TNF, alpha.
00:25:37.000 And what happens is these professional athletes make so much of it that it kind of spirals out of control and causes muscle damage and tissue damage.
00:25:45.000 And so it's often called overtraining.
00:25:49.000 So, in a case like that, and this has been shown with cryotherapy, that if you do cryotherapy immediately after very strenuous exercise, in some cases, in one study they were doing a very strenuous, like, heel training,
00:26:04.000 where they were sprinting up hills and doing this really, really strenuous activity.
00:26:09.000 They did the cryotherapy immediately after, and what they found was that these athletes had less muscle damage, so they measured Different biomarkers for muscle damage.
00:26:17.000 And they measured it over a time course.
00:26:19.000 So they did it like one hour later, 24 hours later, 96 hours later.
00:26:23.000 And what they found was that there was less tissue damage.
00:26:27.000 Same thing was sort of shown for kayakers that were doing a four-hour boat kayaking ride, which is pretty long.
00:26:35.000 Those kayakers that did cryotherapy the day before they did this four-hour kayaking event were able to do the kayaking event the next day better.
00:26:47.000 So something about doing the cryotherapy before doing the kayaking, they were able to perform better the next day when they were going to do another four-hour kayaking event.
00:26:54.000 So doing it before somehow or another activates these anti-inflammatory cytokines and then that mitigates the effect of exercise-induced pro-inflammatory cytokines?
00:27:06.000 It mitigates the out-of-control effects, yeah, when people are really training hard.
00:27:12.000 And then you do it again after you're training?
00:27:15.000 Well, those were separate studies.
00:27:16.000 So studies have been shown that if you do it right after training, it helped mitigate.
00:27:20.000 And also if you did it before, it helped mitigate.
00:27:22.000 But another study that you mentioned showed that men that were doing these sort of squats and they were doing leg presses and other leg exercises, when they did cold water immersion immediately after, it actually prevented muscle hypertrophy or hyperfetory,
00:27:42.000 I think it's called.
00:27:43.000 And I think in that case, you know, if you're just doing your everyday, you know, average gym workout, like the minimal effective dose, probably not a good idea to do the cold shock right after, cold water immersion or cryotherapy right after that, because the amount of pro-inflammatory things,
00:27:59.000 the amount of stressful things that your body's producing isn't so out of control.
00:28:03.000 And you need to make those to have the anti-inflammatory response.
00:28:07.000 So I really think there's a spectrum in terms of, are you an athlete that's doing the minimal effective dose?
00:28:12.000 Are you just going there and doing a few exercises to get a benefit?
00:28:17.000 Or are you really, really pushing it?
00:28:19.000 Are you really training hard?
00:28:21.000 Are you one of those People that's like a professional athlete.
00:28:24.000 They are training really hard.
00:28:26.000 They are pushing it to the next level.
00:28:28.000 And those are the ones that are really subject to having this overactive immune response because they're training super, super hard.
00:28:35.000 So I think that when you have a study come out that says Doing a cold water immersion after this workout, you know, mitigates muscle hyperfetri.
00:28:47.000 Hyperfetri is growth.
00:28:49.000 Growth.
00:28:49.000 Yeah, growth.
00:28:50.000 Then it's not like a one size fits all.
00:28:53.000 You can't just go, oh, all athletes should never do, you know, any sort of cold shock after working out because look, it stops muscle growth.
00:29:01.000 That's not really, it's not the case, because you have to look at the context, you have to look at the athlete, the type of exercise you're doing.
00:29:08.000 There's so many factors, you know.
00:29:10.000 It's kind of like when these studies come out saying, if you take beta-carotene, it's going to cause cancer.
00:29:16.000 Well, all the studies that were done with beta-carotene that caused cancer were done in smokers, and we know That smokers, if you take beta carotene, they've got this very oxidative environment in their lung that chops the beta carotene up into bad things that can damage your DNA and lead to mutations that cause cancer.
00:29:35.000 The same amount of beta carotene given to people that don't smoke, guess what?
00:29:38.000 It doesn't do that.
00:29:39.000 So you can't just say, taking beta carotene caused cancer.
00:29:42.000 You have to look at the context, and you have to understand what's going on.
00:29:46.000 So I think...
00:29:48.000 That's my take on the cold and cold shock, whether that's cryotherapy or cold water immersion, and how it affects muscle recovery, how it affects performance, and even muscle growth or regrowth.
00:30:04.000 But the other thing is that there are other benefits to doing cryotherapy and to doing cold shock in general.
00:30:12.000 So the most consistent and robust effect, and it doesn't matter if it's cold water immersion.
00:30:18.000 In fact, a study has shown comparing cold water immersion where you get up to your shoulders and you just do it for like 20 seconds.
00:30:25.000 Or cryotherapy, so two minutes at like a negative 166 degrees Fahrenheit.
00:30:30.000 You release norepinephrine both in your brain and in your body.
00:30:35.000 And you release it like two to three fold.
00:30:37.000 Like it's very very robust.
00:30:39.000 And this happens every time.
00:30:42.000 So like you know studies have shown that even after 12 weeks of doing this.
00:30:46.000 The 12th week, you're still bursting out just as much norepinephrine as you did the first time you did it.
00:30:52.000 So there's no attenuation of this response.
00:30:55.000 And this is super, super cool because norepinephrine in the brain is actually, it's a neurotransmitter and it's associated with Prolonged focus, attention, vigilance.
00:31:06.000 It's also associated with energy, like this feeling of energy and positive mood.
00:31:12.000 It makes people feel better.
00:31:13.000 You know, when you pharmacologically deplete norepinephrine from people, they become depressed.
00:31:18.000 Cognitive dysfunction happens.
00:31:20.000 They also become anxious and they feel lethargic.
00:31:24.000 So norepinephrine in the brain is acting as a neurotransmitter, but it's also acting as a signaling molecule.
00:31:29.000 In the brain, where it's been shown to decrease inflammation.
00:31:32.000 It's been shown to decrease the induction of these pro-inflammatory cytokines that are basically...
00:31:38.000 Inflammation is like your immune system that is overactive, and it's making all these damaging products that are causing damage to your tissues, to your cells.
00:31:50.000 It's kind of like setting off a nuclear bomb to kill a cockroach, where your immune system is like...
00:31:54.000 Right?
00:31:55.000 And they're like, whoa, there's lots of damage going on here.
00:31:57.000 So norepinephrine is able to stop that from happening in the brain.
00:32:02.000 In the body, it's acting as a hormone.
00:32:05.000 It causes vasoconstriction acutely.
00:32:09.000 And this Is part of a response mechanism to conserve energy, heat.
00:32:15.000 So you're basically conserving it.
00:32:17.000 And it also is involved in analgesic effects.
00:32:22.000 So it's able to reduce pain.
00:32:26.000 And norepinephrine is actually injected into people that have back problems, their spine, and it totally alleviates their pain.
00:32:33.000 A variety of different mechanisms, partly through the opioid pathway and things like that.
00:32:36.000 But I think that's...
00:32:39.000 Why cryotherapy has been shown to help with pain, partly why.
00:32:42.000 There's other things going on.
00:32:43.000 You also are slowing like nerve ending, you know, like the conduction of nerves, you know, at the end of nerves.
00:32:52.000 So like the pain's responses are slowed.
00:32:54.000 That's also happening.
00:32:57.000 The norepinephrine response in itself is really cool because it's doing really good things in the brain and it's also got a positive effect in the body of being anti-inflammatory.
00:33:09.000 So I think that in itself is really cool and if you think about it in the context of professional athletes that are subject to severe injury and damage like brain trauma, UFC fighters that are getting blows to the head, NFL players, You're talking about using cryotherapy to mitigate some of that damage.
00:33:30.000 Part of getting a blow to the head activates the immune system, and we talked about this in great detail last time I was here.
00:33:37.000 So being able to slow that inflammatory process immediately after it happens has very positive effects on people that have had trauma to the head.
00:33:46.000 And I think that in and of itself, aside from the recovery aspect, is very interesting and important.
00:33:54.000 In fact, it's hypothermia, which is cooling down the body, is used to treat traumatic brain injury in clinical settings.
00:34:01.000 So it's something that's used, and it's also used to treat ischemic stroke, things like that.
00:34:08.000 And I think part of that's through this norepinephrine response that's very, very robust.
00:34:13.000 So you're talking about, like, decreasing damage that's, you know, causing more brain aging.
00:34:20.000 And I think that's pretty compelling.
00:34:23.000 In addition to that, the...
00:34:26.000 What was I going to say?
00:34:30.000 I lost my train of thought.
00:34:31.000 I was just going down this norepinephrine.
00:34:33.000 I can't believe that you actually lose your train of thought.
00:34:35.000 I never would have thought that would have happened.
00:34:37.000 Oh, all the time.
00:34:37.000 You're human.
00:34:38.000 All the time.
00:34:39.000 Well, you have too much in there.
00:34:40.000 You've run your hard drive down.
00:34:42.000 There's no room.
00:34:43.000 Oh, I know what it was.
00:34:45.000 Back to the RBM3. That is cool.
00:34:49.000 Regrowing synapses.
00:34:50.000 The potential to do that is another cool thing.
00:34:54.000 I'm actually considering doing the, not cryo, but somehow cold shock, adding that to my daily routine.
00:35:01.000 I did it on a regular basis.
00:35:03.000 I was doing it like once a week or so, and then I went on a run of three weeks where I did it every day for three weeks.
00:35:10.000 I did it five days a week.
00:35:11.000 I didn't do it on the weekends, but five days a week for three weeks.
00:35:13.000 And I've never felt better.
00:35:15.000 It's fucking incredible.
00:35:16.000 And one of the things that I found that's amazing is, I guess it's the neuroepinephrine.
00:35:20.000 How do you say it?
00:35:22.000 Neuroepinephrine?
00:35:22.000 Norepinephrine.
00:35:23.000 Neuro?
00:35:24.000 Yeah, norepinephrine.
00:35:25.000 Norepinephrine.
00:35:26.000 Yeah.
00:35:26.000 Okay.
00:35:26.000 Maybe it's that, but I feel happy when I get out of there.
00:35:30.000 I feel happy and I feel energetic.
00:35:32.000 The way I always describe it, I feel like I could jump over cars.
00:35:35.000 You just feel like...
00:35:35.000 Like once your body recovers from that initial burst, whatever your body is producing to deal with the effects of that insane cold gives you this amazing feeling of euphoria when you're out of it.
00:35:49.000 Yeah, I mean, that makes perfect sense from the study that I read.
00:35:53.000 And, you know, norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors, which prevent norepinephrine, so you release norepinephrine from your neurons, and they then, you know, go into the synapse, and then they bind on another neuron, and that's how they have function.
00:36:06.000 Well, norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors prevent it from being metabolized, so it sits around longer in the synapse and can do its function.
00:36:13.000 It's used to treat ADHD, to treat depression.
00:36:17.000 You know, of course, I think there's a lot of...
00:36:19.000 There are possible side effects with that, because when you're constantly allowing norepinephrine to sit around in the synapses, there's biological responses to that, you know, one of those being the receptors, you start to make less of them.
00:36:30.000 But, you know, that's a different topic.
00:36:31.000 But it is interesting that it's used to treat depression.
00:36:35.000 Like I said, people that are pharmacologically depleted of it become depressed.
00:36:38.000 And studies have shown, at least, they're not randomized controlled trials, but they're Their decent enough trials have shown that cryotherapy has been used successfully to treat depression and anxiety, I think partially because of this norepinephrine effect.
00:36:53.000 So the norepinephrine that you're talking about, the negative effects of it, is this from taking an external source of it or from your body producing it endogenously?
00:37:02.000 No, it's from taking a pill that stops your body from being able to metabolize it normally.
00:37:10.000 Okay.
00:37:10.000 So you're basically, it's kind of like a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, same concept.
00:37:14.000 So, you know, they're basically stopping your body from metabolize.
00:37:18.000 So usually there's a certain half-life, which means norepinephrine is around in your neurons for a certain amount of time.
00:37:24.000 And then it's metabolized, and then you release more epinephrine.
00:37:27.000 So there's a cycle.
00:37:28.000 But if you stop that from happening, the norepinephrine sits around longer in the synapses, and it's there doing its function for a longer period of time.
00:37:37.000 And so it makes people feel better.
00:37:39.000 But when you're doing something like cryotherapy, you don't have to pharmacologically inhibit the pathway to prevent it from being reuptake.
00:37:48.000 Instead, you're just Releasing two to three fold more of it than you normally would it's still gonna get metabolized normally so you don't have all these crazy responses Biological responses feedback loops that happen and you feel really I think you would feel really good and Feel energized feel happy and also have you noticed anything with focus and attention?
00:38:06.000 Do you feel focused?
00:38:07.000 Um, I don't know so I do so many Eric and I were having this conversation earlier It's hard to tell when you do so many different things What's the thing that's having the effect?
00:38:18.000 Right.
00:38:18.000 I'm some sort of a performance-enhancing junkie in a lot of ways.
00:38:23.000 I'm constantly taking, oh, you know, I heard circuminum, that's what you gotta take.
00:38:27.000 Okay, turmeric, get in on it.
00:38:29.000 Alright, fish oil, I'm in.
00:38:31.000 You know, like, my body's like, fuck, dude.
00:38:33.000 You know, like, between that and the healthy foods and those nutrients, I don't have a problem with focus.
00:38:38.000 The only time I have a problem with focus is when I'm tired.
00:38:40.000 And that's usually just a lack of sleep issue or too much exercise issue.
00:38:45.000 But I definitely feel elevated when I do it on a regular basis.
00:38:51.000 I feel elevated.
00:38:52.000 I just feel better.
00:38:53.000 And two things I wanted to ask you.
00:38:56.000 One, when you were talking about the studies on the kayakers and all these different people and they did cryotherapy, were they doing cold water immersion or were they doing the dry cryotherapy?
00:39:08.000 They were doing whole body cryotherapy.
00:39:10.000 Okay.
00:39:10.000 Now when they say whole body cryotherapy, there's two different types of that as well.
00:39:14.000 There's from the neck down and then there's the kind that covers your entire head.
00:39:18.000 You don't see that as much.
00:39:20.000 You see a lot of it where you step into this thing and it kind of like, it just sort of closes like, almost like saloon doors and from your head up You're exposed you're you're in normal air and you You know the the cold air the nitrogen is all below you from the neck down the ones that they have like cryo health care And I know the one that Chad Mendez is a UFC fighter.
00:39:44.000 He uses one in Sacramento You step into a room And you close the door and your whole body's, your head, everything.
00:39:53.000 And apparently the effect of having your head involved makes a big difference.
00:39:59.000 It makes a big difference not just to mitigate the effects of training and getting hit in the head and all sorts of different inflammatory responses from that.
00:40:06.000 But also that your body, because everything is in that cold, your body is like, this isn't a matter of like dipping our toes in the river.
00:40:14.000 We just got dropped off at the top of the world and we're going to fucking freeze to death.
00:40:17.000 So we got to figure out a way to do something about this right away.
00:40:22.000 I would like to see some studies done on what the hell is actually going on.
00:40:27.000 Like what is the difference between having it from the neck up or having it from your entire body?
00:40:32.000 And if there are studies out there, I'd love to read them.
00:40:35.000 Yeah, they don't differentiate in the studies that I've read.
00:40:37.000 When it said whole body cryotherapy, I assumed they meant everything.
00:40:42.000 Those are super hard to find.
00:40:44.000 So maybe it wasn't.
00:40:45.000 Well, they call it whole body, because your whole body is in there, but it's not your head.
00:40:49.000 Well, usually whole body, in the scientific literature, there's whole body hyperthermia, there's whole body hypothermia.
00:40:56.000 So the whole body hyperthermia is when they put your whole body in a sauna.
00:41:11.000 Yeah, it's rare.
00:41:13.000 There's not nearly as many of them as there are the ones that are from the neck down.
00:41:16.000 The neck down is much, much more common.
00:41:20.000 Well, it still has a great benefit.
00:41:22.000 I mean, I've felt a great benefit from the one that's the neck down as well.
00:41:26.000 But it's not the same.
00:41:27.000 The full body, the head immersed.
00:41:29.000 You're stepping into that fucking frozen room.
00:41:32.000 Yeah.
00:41:32.000 That's where it's at.
00:41:33.000 And you know, a lot of people actually do the cold shock right after the heat shock.
00:41:37.000 So they like go and sit in the sauna and then they jump into a cold, you know, lake or they take a cold shower.
00:41:43.000 That's interesting because the cryo healthcare guys, they don't want you doing hot yoga and then going and doing the cold cryotherapy.
00:41:52.000 They're like, that's too much stress in your heart.
00:41:54.000 Oh, really?
00:41:55.000 Yeah.
00:41:55.000 And I don't know why the heart.
00:41:56.000 Why would they think it would be the heart?
00:41:59.000 Because when you're doing the heat, you're causing basal diolation, you're increasing plasma, blood flow to the heart, and then all of a sudden when you're doing norepinephrine, you're constricting.
00:42:09.000 So it's kind of like the opposite.
00:42:13.000 So maybe there is some sort of stress.
00:42:15.000 Maybe it only kills weak people.
00:42:18.000 That we don't need.
00:42:19.000 You know, the other thing people use it for, this cold shocking, is for, because the norepinephrine also ramps up metabolism, and it does that because it's trying to, it activates a pathway that inside of your cells,
00:42:36.000 where you're making energy, the They're tricking these mitochondria, which are the sites of the energy production, into thinking that...
00:42:43.000 So typically there's an electrochemical gradient that's made, and that's how your cell senses, okay, I'm making energy.
00:42:51.000 Well, norepinephrine activates something that uncouples that.
00:42:54.000 It's called uncoupling protein 1, UCP1. And what happens is it tricks your mitochondria into thinking it's not making any energy and it's like, oh my god, I've got to make energy.
00:43:04.000 So it ramps up metabolism.
00:43:05.000 And the reason that happens is because you basically want to make more heat when you're cold.
00:43:10.000 So that's kind of like the body's way of doing it.
00:43:12.000 And so people actually lose weight.
00:43:14.000 When they do this cold shock frequently because they're able to basically trick the body into thinking it's not making energy by uncoupling this whole metabolism process, and then the body speeds up metabolism to end up burning fat more.
00:43:27.000 And so that's also a very common factor.
00:43:30.000 Tool that people use to lose weight.
00:43:34.000 They promote that in the cryotherapy literature, but I've never lost an ounce.
00:43:39.000 Nothing.
00:43:40.000 I don't lose any weight.
00:43:41.000 And I do three minutes and then I go out for like ten minutes and I go in for another three minutes.
00:43:46.000 Yeah, it's probably, you know, cryotherapy, doing it for two minutes, I mean, you get cold and there's obviously it's been shown nor epinephrine gets activated, all those things happen.
00:43:54.000 But in order to really like have this effect that I'm talking about, you basically have to like shiver and then you don't shiver.
00:44:02.000 So it's, you have to really like, I think, have a prolonged period of being cold where you're like sitting in cold water for 20 minutes.
00:44:10.000 So cold water immersion maybe is better for losing weight.
00:44:14.000 Maybe so.
00:44:14.000 Yeah, I would think that the cryotherapy, you know, like I've seen studies where they've looked at cryotherapy, the effects of cryotherapy on rectal temperature, on muscle temperature.
00:44:28.000 Well, I mean, rectal temperature is indicative of core body temperature, but you really only drop a couple degrees.
00:44:33.000 So it doesn't go down that much.
00:44:36.000 Dramatically.
00:44:36.000 So that would kind of make sense that the long duration of being in the ice bath, because people go in the ice bath for like 20 minutes.
00:44:42.000 So when you're in that ice bath for 20 minutes, your body's like, fucker!
00:44:46.000 Yeah, that's probably going to activate that pathway for sure.
00:44:49.000 Makes sense.
00:44:50.000 Yeah.
00:44:51.000 Because they say that being in the cold, like in cold weather, like they say if you want to lose weight, just wearing a light jacket in cold weather makes you lose weight.
00:45:00.000 Probably through the same mechanisms.
00:45:01.000 But I say, go to the gym, you lazy fucks, and wear a warm coat and be comfortable, goddammit.
00:45:07.000 Be uncomfortable for short bursts.
00:45:09.000 Don't eat so much.
00:45:10.000 Exercise is so...
00:45:12.000 Everything you just said.
00:45:13.000 You know, there was a really interesting study that just came out a couple weeks ago where they looked at the rates of aging in young adults.
00:45:22.000 So they looked at different time points.
00:45:24.000 There was a whole, I think it was like over a thousand people.
00:45:28.000 And the study started when they were like 26 years old.
00:45:32.000 And they measured like 18 different biomarkers of aging.
00:45:37.000 So they looked at like DNA health.
00:45:39.000 They looked at telomere length.
00:45:41.000 So telomeres are those caps on the end of your chromosomes that protect them from damage.
00:45:44.000 They're a marker for aging.
00:45:46.000 They looked at HDL cholesterol.
00:45:48.000 They looked at C-reactive protein, which is an inflammatory mediator.
00:45:52.000 They looked at 18 different things.
00:45:53.000 And they looked at these people that were 26 years old, and then they did it again when they were 32, and then they did it again when they were 38. And what they found was that even though these people were all the same chronological age, their cells looked Very, very, very different.
00:46:08.000 People age at different rates.
00:46:10.000 Some people, if you looked on the cellular level, they look 10 years older and some people look 10 years younger than their chronological age.
00:46:18.000 And I was looking at some of these graphs of people and you can see some people started out Like, they started out bad, where they looked old, and then they started getting better.
00:46:26.000 You know, they probably started changing their diet, their lifestyle.
00:46:29.000 Other people started going worse.
00:46:31.000 Some people stayed the same.
00:46:32.000 You know, so there are lots of different variables going on here.
00:46:35.000 But I think what's really interesting—oh, and by the way, their physical appearance also correlated with not their chronological age, but their biological age, is what it's called.
00:46:44.000 So if they showed their picture to people, random people, and said, guess what age they are, they would guess their biological age, not their chronological age.
00:46:52.000 So if a person was 38, but they looked 28, the person would say, oh, they're probably 28. And if the person was 38, but they looked 48, they just looked worn and, you know, rough, then the person would guess that they were much, much older than they were.
00:47:06.000 So there was a correlation between physical appearance and the biological age.
00:47:12.000 I found this really, really interesting because I think it is strong evidence for the fact that your diet and your lifestyle play a major role in the way you age.
00:47:23.000 And that's something a lot of people...
00:47:26.000 There is a genetic component.
00:47:27.000 There is definitely a genetic component.
00:47:29.000 I was talking about this pathway FOXO3 that activates all this great stuff and you can deal with stress easier.
00:47:35.000 Those people are lucky.
00:47:36.000 My husband's one of those guys.
00:47:37.000 I'm not.
00:47:38.000 So he's got the variation of that gene that he's likely to live 2.7 times more likely to live to be 100. Whoa.
00:47:48.000 Handsome, youthful fellow.
00:47:50.000 Look at him.
00:47:53.000 I took this opportunity to really think about how your diet and lifestyle plays a role in the way you age and what you can do to be that person that looks 10 years younger biologically versus 10 years older.
00:48:06.000 You know, and, and there are really, you know, there's, as we age, we talked about this, the damage accumulates.
00:48:12.000 And also what happens is our ability to repair the damage decreases.
00:48:16.000 So it's like, not only are you increasing the damage, but your body is like decreasing its ability to take care of it and then reaches point and it's like death, you know, it's just too much damage over, you know, overload and things start to shut down.
00:48:29.000 And I started looking at, well, what are like the major causes of death, like in the United States, for example?
00:48:36.000 If you look at the major causes of death in the United States, cardiovascular disease is number one, cancer is number two.
00:48:41.000 So most people that are dying, when they die, they die of cardiovascular disease.
00:48:46.000 And then the second most common thing they die of is cancer.
00:48:50.000 And if you think about that, and studies have actually shown for cardiovascular disease, like 80% of that is preventable by diet.
00:49:01.000 80%?
00:49:02.000 80%.
00:49:02.000 So in the context of cardiovascular disease, and this is where I started to really dive into this, you know, heart health.
00:49:11.000 A decade ago or so, we were all told, maybe it's two decades by now, I don't know, time's flying.
00:49:17.000 We were all told that, you know, to have good heart health, you need to decrease your saturated fat intake, right?
00:49:23.000 It's all cholesterol clogs up your arteries.
00:49:26.000 And when you have cholesterol clogging up your arteries, plaques form, they rupture.
00:49:30.000 When they rupture, then this causes a clot to form.
00:49:34.000 And then if the clot forms in an artery to your heart, you have a heart attack.
00:49:37.000 If it forms in an artery to your brain, you have a stroke.
00:49:40.000 And we were bled to believe this is all because of, you know, the fat we eat.
00:49:45.000 And we know now that it's much, much more complicated than that.
00:49:49.000 And in fact, that thought, like, did a lot more damage because then people started to eat something called trans fats, which, like, did so much more damage than, you know, eating regular fat.
00:50:01.000 And recently the FDA, thank God, like, banned all trans fats.
00:50:05.000 And so we have, like...
00:50:06.000 Very recently.
00:50:07.000 Very recently, yeah.
00:50:08.000 How long did they sell trans fats for?
00:50:10.000 I don't know.
00:50:12.000 It was decades.
00:50:13.000 My mom, I remember my mom buying margarine.
00:50:16.000 Margarine is trans fats.
00:50:17.000 Oh yeah.
00:50:18.000 And that's illegal now.
00:50:20.000 They have three years to get it off the shelves.
00:50:23.000 Can't believe it's not butter?
00:50:24.000 You're fucked.
00:50:26.000 It's not butter.
00:50:27.000 Eat butter.
00:50:29.000 It's bad.
00:50:30.000 It causes your cells to become really stiff, which is what happens when you age because of damage.
00:50:34.000 So it's like aging in accelerated time.
00:50:37.000 And it causes heart disease, all sorts of problems.
00:50:40.000 I mean, it's so bad.
00:50:43.000 Back to their cause, the actual cause of it, of this cardiovascular disease, it actually, I think, comes down to gut health.
00:50:51.000 I know I talk a lot about micronutrients and the importance of vitamins and minerals, and that also plays a very important role in the way you age, and you and I have talked a lot about this.
00:50:58.000 But I kind of wanted to touch a little bit on this topic because I think it's really important since, you know, I know my parents' generation It's been really hard to de-educate them and like help have them relearn everything they thought was bad and them understand,
00:51:15.000 well, everything you thought was bad is actually not bad and let me explain what actually is bad, you know, because I want them to be able to change their dietary habits and be healthy.
00:51:26.000 I think most people that are educated in health know that it's not just about cholesterol.
00:51:31.000 They know, well, it's LDL cholesterol, and it's not just LDL cholesterol.
00:51:34.000 It's small, dense particles, right?
00:51:36.000 You've heard that.
00:51:39.000 And the difference between HDL and LDL? You actually need cholesterol.
00:51:44.000 LDL, it's not actually cholesterol.
00:51:46.000 LDL is a lipoprotein that transports cholesterol.
00:51:49.000 It transports fatty acids and other things, but it's easy to think, it's easy to call LDL cholesterol because that's what people think about it.
00:51:56.000 Is that like calling the subway people?
00:51:59.000 No.
00:51:59.000 Because it transports people?
00:52:01.000 I mean, well, kind of, but one of the major things it's transporting is cholesterol.
00:52:06.000 Okay.
00:52:06.000 So I think it's easier.
00:52:07.000 Subway too.
00:52:09.000 Yeah, if you just say LDL, people are like, what's that?
00:52:11.000 But if you say LDL cholesterol, I think people are like, oh yeah, I've heard of that.
00:52:16.000 So I think it's better to talk about it like that so people can relate.
00:52:19.000 So the LDL cholesterol transports cholesterol.
00:52:22.000 So LDL cholesterol transports cholesterol to your cells, to your cells in your liver, to your cells in your kidney, to your cells in your muscle.
00:52:31.000 And it does that because...
00:52:33.000 Every cell in your body needs cholesterol.
00:52:36.000 It's part of the membrane of the cell, which is essential for the way the cell functions.
00:52:41.000 Anytime you damage your cell, anytime you're making a new cell, guess what?
00:52:44.000 It needs cholesterol.
00:52:45.000 You go out, you go to the gym, you work really hard, you got some damage.
00:52:49.000 You need cholesterol to repair that damage.
00:52:51.000 So LDL brings the cholesterol to your cells.
00:52:55.000 Once it gets to your cell, then something cuts it off, like a little piece of the cholesterol gets cut off, cut off the LDL, and then the LDL goes back to the liver and it's recycled.
00:53:07.000 So that's in a normal situation.
00:53:10.000 So what happens is, what HDL does is, HDL brings the cholesterol from your cells or from your arteries, if it's built up, and it just rips it off and brings it back to the liver.
00:53:24.000 So it's basically taking cholesterol away from your cells, away from your arteries.
00:53:31.000 The things that are built up in your arteries and your veins.
00:53:33.000 So it's removing that and bringing it to the liver.
00:53:35.000 So HDL is really important if you have too much of the bad type of cholesterol, which is the small dense.
00:53:42.000 And let me explain what small dense is because I'm sure most people have no clue what that means.
00:53:49.000 Like I said, when LDL cholesterol is going to your cell to repair damage, a little piece of it gets cleaved off and it's like, okay, here's a little piece of cholesterol.
00:53:57.000 Here you go.
00:53:57.000 And now the LDL that's left is smaller because it donated some of that cholesterol to your cell to repair.
00:54:03.000 So now it's smaller.
00:54:05.000 What happens is though, if you have an unhealthy gut, and we could talk about what causes that, but if you have an unhealthy gut, most of the back, so there's like over a hundred trillion bacteria in your gut.
00:54:19.000 And they're there because they're metabolizing the food you eat, making them into fatty acids and proteins, amino acids, things like that.
00:54:26.000 They're breaking this down.
00:54:27.000 That's an amazing number.
00:54:28.000 Yeah.
00:54:28.000 A hundred trillion.
00:54:29.000 They're also making vitamins and minerals.
00:54:31.000 That's more than there have been people in the world ever.
00:54:35.000 A hundred trillion.
00:54:36.000 Yeah, just to...
00:54:37.000 In one body.
00:54:38.000 Yeah, in one body.
00:54:39.000 Well, you also have the highest concentration of immune cells in your gut.
00:54:42.000 Most people, when I ask them, where do you think you have the highest concentration of immune cells?
00:54:46.000 They're like, oh, your thymus, or in your blood, you know.
00:54:51.000 Nope, it's in your gut.
00:54:52.000 The highest concentration of immune cells are in your gut.
00:54:54.000 And the reason for that is because your gut is actually exposed to the external environment.
00:54:58.000 So every time you eat food from the environment, your gut sees it.
00:55:02.000 So if there's something pathogenic there, you need to have that immune response to make sure it's not going to take you out, right?
00:55:07.000 So there's a lot of immune cells in your gut.
00:55:10.000 Well, they're separated by what's called the gut barrier.
00:55:14.000 And when that becomes compromised, which we can talk about in a minute, what happens is your immune cells start to kill bacteria in your gut.
00:55:22.000 And this releases something that's part of the bacterial membrane called endotoxin.
00:55:28.000 Endotoxin then gets into your bloodstream.
00:55:31.000 And guess what?
00:55:32.000 It binds to LDL cholesterol.
00:55:34.000 And the reason why it binds to it is there's these docking sites on the cholesterol, the LDL cholesterol, that soak it up like a sponge.
00:55:42.000 So anytime you're inflamed, You actually increase your LDL production.
00:55:46.000 You actually make more LDL cholesterol.
00:55:50.000 Which is why it's important anytime you get a blood lipid panel done from a doctor, do it more than once.
00:55:55.000 Because if you had some stressful event the night before, something crazy, you're inflamed, you were sick, your LDL cholesterol is going to be through the roof.
00:56:03.000 It's just not going to be an accurate picture.
00:56:06.000 It's a snapshot of what's going on in your life at that time.
00:56:09.000 So should you get several over the course of a few days to get a baseline?
00:56:13.000 Yes, you should get several.
00:56:15.000 If you had something stressful happening, wait till you're chilled out and then do another test.
00:56:20.000 Give it some time, a couple weeks, do it again.
00:56:23.000 Is it all real stress or could it be like rollercoaster stress?
00:56:26.000 If you went on a crazy rollercoaster, does that change your LDL levels?
00:56:30.000 That kind of artificial stress?
00:56:33.000 If it stressed you out enough...
00:56:36.000 Like Tower of Terror?
00:56:38.000 Yeah, like if you really were terrified, if you were terrified, yeah, it might actually, that might cause enough inflammation to do that.
00:56:47.000 So your cholesterol, the reason your body does that is because the endotoxin that's released It's very damaging.
00:56:54.000 I mean, endotoxin being released in the system, when you have enough of it, it can cause sepsis and death.
00:56:58.000 So your body has this response mechanism of soaking up that endotoxin, the cholesterol, so it doesn't damage your tissues.
00:57:05.000 It doesn't damage your organs.
00:57:07.000 The problem is that when that endotoxin binds that cholesterol, that LDL cholesterol that we just talked about that was donating a piece of cholesterol to your cell so it's smaller, it binds on the same docking sites that that LDL cholesterol uses to go back to the liver and get out of your circulation.
00:57:24.000 Wow.
00:57:24.000 So then what happens is you're screwed because now that LDL cholesterol that's smaller has all this endotoxin there.
00:57:32.000 It can't go back to the liver.
00:57:33.000 It's stuck in your circulation.
00:57:34.000 And guess what?
00:57:35.000 Endotoxin is like a signal for your immune cells where it's like, hey, I'm a foreign invader.
00:57:41.000 Come attack me.
00:57:42.000 So now it's stuck in your circulation.
00:57:44.000 Your immune cells are seeing this signal of endotoxin that's stuck to cholesterol, but it's not bacteria.
00:57:49.000 It's cholesterol.
00:57:50.000 So they come and they try to Kill it, but they can't kill it because it's not a live bacteria.
00:57:56.000 It's your cholesterol with its endotoxin bound to it.
00:57:58.000 They secrete all these pro-inflammatory cytokines, which recruit more.
00:58:02.000 And then you get this beginning of a plaque or what it's called a foam cell, which is a bunch of immune cells stuck to this LDL particle.
00:58:09.000 So it's now small, dense because it's got all this stuff and it's stuck there in your circulation.
00:58:15.000 So really, if we look at the big picture of things, you know, saturated fat, which does increase LDL cholesterol, isn't such a bad thing unless you are under chronic inflammation.
00:58:28.000 You know, chronic inflammation at the level of the gut.
00:58:32.000 So what causes that?
00:58:35.000 Well, If you think about your gut and the bacterial cells that are there and the immune cells that are there and how they're being separated by this, it's really, it's called mucin.
00:58:46.000 So your gut cells secrete something called mucin and it looks like mucus.
00:58:50.000 I mean, it looks like snot.
00:58:51.000 It's like viscous and gross.
00:58:53.000 Anyone that's had like inflammatory bowel disease and they've had like problems and they can excrete it through their feces.
00:58:59.000 It's like all slimy.
00:59:00.000 That's mucin.
00:59:01.000 That's your gut barrier like coming out.
00:59:03.000 And that's not good.
00:59:05.000 So the mucin that's secreted by your gut cells is very, very important because it's separating your immune cells from your bacteria so that your immune cells aren't going crazy, causing this whole inflammatory cascade and releasing endotoxin.
00:59:19.000 Yeah.
00:59:41.000 Get fermented by what's called commensal bacteria in your gut, which are the good type of bacteria typically, because they make these short chain fatty acids.
00:59:48.000 And when they make them, lactate, butyrate, propionate, acetate, those are the short chain fatty acids.
00:59:55.000 60 to 90% of that goes right to the gut epithelial cells and it It fuels them to make mucin.
01:00:01.000 So your gut cells love it when those short chain fatty acids come in because they're going to crank out more mucin and they're going to make sure that gut barrier is strong.
01:00:08.000 They're going to make sure that it's not breaking down, that your immune cells not coming in contact with bacteria.
01:00:13.000 When you're not feeding it the right thing, so if you're eating a lot of refined carbohydrates, refined sugars, what happens is there's a bunch of other bacteria in your gut that don't ferment these fibers.
01:00:28.000 They like to take the sugar in.
01:00:30.000 And they take the sugar in and they're overgrowing.
01:00:34.000 So they're basically occupying space in your gut that the commensal bacteria that usually are making the good stuff would occupy.
01:00:41.000 So it's like, well, if you have bad stuff here, that's less room for the good stuff, right?
01:00:45.000 The other thing that's happening is that there's actually, and this was shown very recently and it blew my mind, there's actually insulin resistance going on at the level of the gut.
01:00:54.000 So the more sugar you eat, Your gut cells begin to not respond to that sugar.
01:01:01.000 And so they're getting starved of energy because now they can't take the sugar up into the cell to make mucin because they're not responding.
01:01:09.000 They're not making insulin to be able to do that.
01:01:13.000 And so now your gut cells are starving.
01:01:15.000 When they're starving, they start breaking down mucin and then you start to have inflammation.
01:01:21.000 The key to good gut health is to not eat these refined carbohydrates, these refined sugars, and to try to eat more of the good fermentable types of fiber, like vegetables and fruits.
01:01:35.000 I mean, these are barley, whole oats also have it, and also mushrooms.
01:01:40.000 Mushrooms have a type of it called beta-glucans that are really, really...
01:01:43.000 And when you eat oats and you cover the oats in brown sugar, what happens there?
01:01:47.000 Yeah, that's not a good thing.
01:01:49.000 So the refined sugar, yeah, the refined sugar is not good.
01:01:51.000 But the thing that's super...
01:01:53.000 I'm fucking up my oatmeal around it, Patrick.
01:01:54.000 Do you put brown sugar in your oatmeal?
01:01:55.000 I love it.
01:01:56.000 It's the only way I eat it.
01:01:57.000 Damn it!
01:01:59.000 How about Stevia?
01:02:00.000 Or Stevia?
01:02:02.000 I don't know.
01:02:02.000 Jamie bought some shitty new Stevia.
01:02:04.000 This new stuff sucks.
01:02:07.000 Wholesome stevia.
01:02:09.000 Yeah.
01:02:09.000 This is not good.
01:02:11.000 The stevia we had before was like almost too strong.
01:02:13.000 This stuff is actually too weak.
01:02:15.000 But I don't know.
01:02:16.000 It's weird.
01:02:17.000 Like, I don't know how they're making this.
01:02:18.000 Like, how can it vary so much?
01:02:20.000 Because the other stevia we had, you would just take like a micro spoonful, like maybe a twentieth of a spoonful, and it was good for a cup of coffee.
01:02:29.000 Like, boom.
01:02:30.000 And anything more than that, I would tell people when they were trying it out, I'd be like, be really careful because you can fuck it up quick because it's so strong.
01:02:37.000 I've done that.
01:02:37.000 This stuff is not.
01:02:38.000 Well, I mean, it's a plant, so maybe the plant's very...
01:02:41.000 Yeah, I think assholes are cutting it.
01:02:43.000 It's like drug dealers.
01:02:44.000 They're cutting my stevia.
01:02:45.000 It's probably some baby powder in there or something.
01:02:48.000 Yeah, so the fermentable, the gut bacteria are super interesting because you want to have a lot of these good stuff, the stuff that's making these things that are fueling your gut cells, the commensal bacteria.
01:03:00.000 A lot of those are lactobacillus.
01:03:01.000 In fact, I'm drinking kombucha right now that has, it only has like a billion or so lactobacillus bacteria.
01:03:08.000 And those generate these lactate and they feed our gut cells and they also feed other good bacteria.
01:03:15.000 But I actually have been experimenting recently with a probiotic.
01:03:18.000 It's called VSL number 3, which has 450 billion.
01:03:23.000 So that's like drinking 450 of these.
01:03:25.000 What?
01:03:26.000 Is that overkill?
01:03:28.000 Is it possible or no?
01:03:31.000 Gut just takes over your brain.
01:03:33.000 Because it has an effect on your personality, right?
01:03:36.000 We totally have to talk about this.
01:03:37.000 Yeah, it's so interesting.
01:03:40.000 So I did an experiment.
01:03:41.000 And yes, it is overkill.
01:03:43.000 Did you do it on your husband or yourself?
01:03:44.000 Both.
01:03:44.000 We both did it, yeah.
01:03:45.000 I wanted an N of two.
01:03:47.000 I would be really worried if you were married to someone like her, she would just start experimenting.
01:03:50.000 Eat this.
01:03:51.000 Can I see your blood?
01:03:54.000 I do do that.
01:03:55.000 I do.
01:03:57.000 But I get some interesting data.
01:03:58.000 So this VSL number 3...
01:04:00.000 Where do you get this stuff?
01:04:01.000 I have to order it online.
01:04:03.000 You can find it at some pharmacies, but you want the Sashets because the Sashets...
01:04:08.000 How do you spell that?
01:04:09.000 VSL number 3. Sashets?
01:04:11.000 Yeah.
01:04:11.000 S-A-C-H-E-T-S. Basically what it is, it's a little package.
01:04:16.000 That comes with this bacteria, and there's like six different strains of it.
01:04:20.000 And I put it in my yogurt.
01:04:22.000 You can put it in water.
01:04:24.000 And yogurt is already probiotic because of the astophilis.
01:04:26.000 Right.
01:04:26.000 So it's like super fueling the yogurt.
01:04:29.000 And so I took this for...
01:04:32.000 30 days, every day.
01:04:34.000 And this has been shown, by the way, there's like 25 publications using this specific BSL No.
01:04:39.000 3 probiotic, which has six different strains of commensal bacteria, shows that it, you know, improves clinical symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome, colitis, fill-in-the-blank bowel problem, it improves insulin sensitivity, it also increases neurotrophic factors in the brain,
01:04:54.000 brain-derived neurotrophic factor.
01:04:56.000 So it's like super cool.
01:04:58.000 And I was like, you know, I'm convinced.
01:05:00.000 There's 25 publications on this.
01:05:01.000 I want to try.
01:05:02.000 I want to see what happens to my gut.
01:05:03.000 So I took a...
01:05:06.000 I sent my poop off to get sequenced.
01:05:08.000 Oh, boy.
01:05:09.000 You can do that.
01:05:11.000 How common.
01:05:12.000 Everybody's doing it.
01:05:14.000 Everybody I know is.
01:05:16.000 My mother-in-law did it.
01:05:18.000 So basically, they sequence the different types of bacteria that are...
01:05:22.000 It's like the flow-through coming out in your poop.
01:05:24.000 So it's indicative of what type of bacteria you have in your colon.
01:05:27.000 So I took a baseline.
01:05:28.000 I saw the types of bacteria I had.
01:05:31.000 I didn't have as many commensal as I wanted to have.
01:05:35.000 And I've had some serious gut issues over the course of my life because I've had several rounds of antibiotics.
01:05:40.000 I had MRSA infection a few years ago.
01:05:44.000 From surgery?
01:05:45.000 No, I think it was from working in the hospital.
01:05:47.000 I worked at a children's hospital in Memphis.
01:05:49.000 And I don't know where I got it from.
01:05:52.000 They're everywhere in hospitals, so possibly that's where I picked up, but it wasn't from surgery.
01:05:56.000 I had no surgery.
01:05:57.000 Wow.
01:05:58.000 And it was a pain in the ass, literally.
01:06:00.000 It was on my butt.
01:06:01.000 And so I had a horrible experience where, this was when I was in graduate school.
01:06:07.000 Explain that, what it is, medication-resistant.
01:06:11.000 Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus.
01:06:13.000 And it's basically a type of Staphylococcus bacteria, which is all over our skin, we have this, that is resistant to most antibiotics.
01:06:23.000 So most antibiotics that you take will not kill it.
01:06:27.000 But the doctors that I went to, you know, I had some crappy health coverage.
01:06:31.000 I was a student, so I was going to the university, and the guy was kind of a dummy.
01:06:36.000 He gave me this antibiotic course, and it went away, but then it came back.
01:06:40.000 And then I was like, it came back, and then he did again.
01:06:42.000 He didn't, like, take a swab and sequence it to see.
01:06:45.000 And so I did this, like, you know, three times.
01:06:48.000 And my third time, I was like, this is ridiculous.
01:06:50.000 Like, you know, and so I started reading in the literature.
01:06:54.000 And found that there's other things you can do to treat it.
01:06:57.000 Garlic, ginseng, grapefruit seed extract, and tea tree oil.
01:07:03.000 I made this whole concoction of stuff.
01:07:04.000 And is it oral or is this topical?
01:07:06.000 I did both.
01:07:07.000 So I made a topical cream with a bunch of crazy stuff.
01:07:10.000 And then I orally took...
01:07:12.000 Tons of garlic and grapefruit seed extract.
01:07:15.000 And it was ginkgo biloba, not ginsegg.
01:07:18.000 It was ginkgo biloba.
01:07:18.000 I found studies where it was killing methicillin-resistant staphylococcus psoriasis, MRSA. And so I was both orally administered and topically, and this was in mice.
01:07:28.000 So I was trying to translate this to me, and it worked.
01:07:31.000 Really?
01:07:32.000 It worked.
01:07:32.000 What was really interesting was the last time I had it, And it kept coming in the same place.
01:07:38.000 I put it on topically, and I was taking it orally, and literally within 24 hours, this thing came to a head, pussed out until there was this little hole that was left, and then it healed, and it never came back.
01:07:50.000 Whoa.
01:07:53.000 So...
01:07:53.000 So this is not taking antibiotics.
01:07:55.000 You weren't taking antibiotics at the time?
01:07:57.000 Well, I had already taken three rounds.
01:07:58.000 Right.
01:07:59.000 So you were done taking the rounds.
01:08:00.000 I was done.
01:08:00.000 I was done.
01:08:00.000 It came back because it wrecks your system.
01:08:02.000 It makes me exhausted.
01:08:04.000 It totally wrecked my system.
01:08:06.000 For a long...
01:08:06.000 Years, I had to recover from...
01:08:08.000 I mean, I got all sorts of gut issues from...
01:08:11.000 From that?
01:08:12.000 From taking the three rounds of antibiotics.
01:08:13.000 Wow.
01:08:14.000 Because you didn't replenish it with probiotics because you didn't know.
01:08:17.000 I didn't.
01:08:18.000 I didn't replenish it.
01:08:19.000 I was crazy busy.
01:08:20.000 I was stressed all the time.
01:08:22.000 So all the above was wrong.
01:08:23.000 It was just all wrong.
01:08:24.000 And I ended up having some inflammatory bowel issues for a while.
01:08:29.000 And then I had to figure that out, which was a whole other can of worms.
01:08:32.000 Because I was like, what's going on?
01:08:34.000 Why all of a sudden am I having this pain in my intestines?
01:08:39.000 And I went to specialists, pain doctors.
01:08:42.000 Abdominal pain specialists, and the advice I got from them was, we think it's neuropathy.
01:08:50.000 You're crazy.
01:08:51.000 You're a crazy lady.
01:08:52.000 Yeah.
01:08:52.000 How do you feel about taking an SSRI? Whoa.
01:08:56.000 And I was like...
01:08:57.000 I'm not going to take an SSRI. And then he goes, well, how do you feel about taking an anticonvulsant?
01:09:02.000 Both of these have been shown to help with this type of pain in your abdomen.
01:09:05.000 And I said, I absolutely won't take any of these drugs.
01:09:08.000 I walked out of this office and I never went back.
01:09:10.000 And at that point, I think I reached a turning point in my belief in the medical system in general, where I said, wow.
01:09:20.000 You know, these people have no idea what's going on.
01:09:23.000 They're kind of just trial and error trying to figure things out.
01:09:25.000 No mention about my diet.
01:09:27.000 No mention about, are you taking enough fiber?
01:09:30.000 You know, what are you eating to make sure you're not getting, you know, this pain isn't because, you know, something's going on.
01:09:35.000 None of that at all.
01:09:36.000 And, you know, I went as far as, like, having them look, because I thought there might be a structural defect in, like, the last part of my colon.
01:09:43.000 So I had them look, you know, while I was awake.
01:09:45.000 You know, they were going in there and we were looking together.
01:09:48.000 And, you know, there was nothing there.
01:09:50.000 But, you know, the conclusion I came to, and I've treated myself through just, I've just had a really, it really forced me to have a great diet.
01:09:59.000 I upped my fiber intake to like, oh, you know, I'm taking like 45 grams, I get 45 grams of fiber a day, a lot of fiber.
01:10:07.000 And I really, I never really get this pain.
01:10:10.000 Much, unless something like I don't sleep and I'm really, really stressed and all these little factors come in, then I can kind of get a little bit of the pain.
01:10:18.000 But I mostly, like, it was bad.
01:10:20.000 It was so chronic and bad.
01:10:22.000 It was, like, every day.
01:10:22.000 And it was really interfering with my life.
01:10:25.000 You know, my life.
01:10:26.000 You know, granted, at the same time, I had taken these three rounds, and they were strong antibiotics.
01:10:31.000 I was also very stressed and I wasn't sleeping a lot because I was working just non-stop, just all those things.
01:10:37.000 So I became interested in the gut many years ago for that reason.
01:10:42.000 Personal experience, you know, where it's like when you're having pain every day, like you're not used to that and you don't know what's going on.
01:10:49.000 The pain wasn't getting worse, so I knew it wasn't like a tumor, you know, but still it was like I mean,
01:11:10.000 who knows?
01:11:21.000 I mean, if my mom were to have gone into that office and she were to have the pain and the doctor says, take this, it would have been done.
01:11:29.000 It would have been a done deal.
01:11:30.000 She would be on that stuff right now.
01:11:32.000 One of the things that struck me about these conversations that I have with you is there are so many things you need to learn.
01:11:38.000 There's so much information.
01:11:40.000 And every time we do a podcast together, everyone on Twitter says, Jesus fucking Christ, I've got to get my notebook out and start writing things down, start doing research, because it's the amount of data that you distribute in just a three-hour podcast is fucking staggering.
01:11:56.000 Now, when you think about the amount of time that the average person who's a doctor actually spends on nutrition, it is so small.
01:12:04.000 Like I have friends that are doctors, they joke about it.
01:12:06.000 It's like you don't learn anything.
01:12:08.000 You learn so little in medical school about actual nutrition and the effects.
01:12:13.000 And it seems to me that over the last few decades, It's just been that people are starting to be more and more aware of this, to the point where it was actually joked around.
01:12:22.000 I read this criticism of Bill Maher once, because Bill Maher, who says a lot of things I don't agree with, especially when it comes to vaccines and things along those lines, like, man, vaccines have stopped a lot of fucking diseases.
01:12:34.000 I mean, there's a lot of things that vaccines have really had a tremendous health impact for the positive on the human race.
01:12:42.000 But he had a really good point that people were mocking.
01:12:45.000 They were saying, how come when I go to the doctor, the doctor never asks me about my diet?
01:12:50.000 And they were saying, well, look at you, Bill.
01:12:52.000 You're thin.
01:12:53.000 You obviously look healthy.
01:12:54.000 That's one of the dumbest fucking things anybody could ever say.
01:12:57.000 That shows to me just the common ignorance that the average person has about...
01:13:03.000 The word diet.
01:13:04.000 Like, diet doesn't mean losing weight.
01:13:07.000 Diet means what are the nutrients you're taking into your system and what is going on with your body in response to those nutrients?
01:13:16.000 What are you missing?
01:13:18.000 If you don't get enough calcium, you get osteoporosis.
01:13:21.000 We know that there's significant factors when it comes to health and diet, but the average doctor doesn't.
01:13:29.000 The average doctor just doesn't know, and you have to go deep, deep, deep into this.
01:13:34.000 The average doctor who's working 10, 12 hours a day dealing with the rising costs of medical insurance, of malpractice insurance, trying to pay off your student loans, like Jesus Christ, and then if you have a family, and then if you have a life, and then if you have hobbies, Where do they have the time?
01:13:51.000 It seems like you need a whole panel of experts just to figure out how to maximize and optimize the human body, just with food.
01:14:02.000 Absolutely.
01:14:03.000 I mean, it's a huge problem in terms of the medical field.
01:14:07.000 And I think that as the people are becoming more educated, it puts pressure on the young physicians that are You know, coming up to learn more about it.
01:14:17.000 Now, you know, exercise is another thing they don't learn about.
01:14:20.000 You know, exercise is so important.
01:14:22.000 It's a very important component of health, of disease prevention.
01:14:26.000 You know, it's been shown to not only prevent cancer For example, which is the number two cause of death in the United States, but it's been shown to help treat cancer.
01:14:36.000 So people that have, for example, colon cancer and they exercise a lot, they're much less likely to have cancer recurrence.
01:14:43.000 I mean, this has been shown in mouse models where they give them tumors.
01:14:46.000 If they exercise vigorously, then they're...
01:14:51.000 Basically, they kill twice as many tumor cells as they do if they don't exercise.
01:14:56.000 And this is also very similar to what a chemotherapy drug does.
01:14:59.000 And if you look, actually most doctors that are surveyed, they don't know about these things.
01:15:05.000 They don't take an exercise.
01:15:06.000 In fact, 50% of all of the medical institutions, United States at least, they offer no curriculum.
01:15:14.000 And of the ones that do offer it, it's optional.
01:15:16.000 For a medical student that's starting their training to take.
01:15:20.000 I think that what's going to happen is eventually The older generations are going to die off, and that's kind of what happens, you know.
01:15:29.000 And then we repopulate the new field with people that are more trained, more educated.
01:15:33.000 I do see a lot of younger physicians.
01:15:35.000 In fact, a lot of them reach out to me and say that they've learned a lot from some of my videos, from listening to me on the Joe Rogan experience.
01:15:42.000 You know, so I know that there's a group of people, young physicians out there, that, you know, are interested in prevention, are interested in You know, understanding this complex interaction between nutrition and how it affects disease susceptibility, how it can,
01:15:57.000 you know, help you not only optimize your performance in certain things, cognitive performance, but also can prolong your lifespan.
01:16:05.000 So I think that's coming.
01:16:07.000 It's changing.
01:16:07.000 It's getting better.
01:16:08.000 It's changing, and it's very frustrating.
01:16:10.000 The amount of data required, though, it's just so overwhelming.
01:16:13.000 It's a lot of work.
01:16:15.000 How the fuck do you do it?
01:16:18.000 It's, you know, I do it because, you know, I really like getting this information, synthesizing this information and communicating it to people.
01:16:29.000 That's something I really enjoy doing.
01:16:30.000 I get feedback, you know, I do it part-time, but it takes a lot of time and I want to shift more of my focus to doing this.
01:16:37.000 But I mean, I get messages all the time from people saying that they've listened to me on the JRE or they've I've, you know, listened to my videos and they've, you know, fine-tuned their diet, their micronutrient intake, and it made a huge difference in their mental health, you know, their off-drug fill-in-the-blank,
01:16:53.000 you know, their physical health is better, and it's, you know, so I think it's important, you know, for people To communicate this health information to the public, and there are people doing it, and that's one way.
01:17:05.000 And communicate it to doctors as well.
01:17:08.000 So it helps if you have someone else break it down for them, because they don't have the time.
01:17:13.000 There is an issue also where doctors don't want to admit that they don't know things, and they don't want to admit that there's a significant factor that maybe they haven't researched at all that pertains to human health.
01:17:24.000 I mean, that's human nature, right?
01:17:25.000 Humans don't want to admit that.
01:17:26.000 Especially doctors, especially people that are in that massive position of power and expertise.
01:17:31.000 Like, a doctor is a very respected member of society.
01:17:35.000 Someone who's taking care of the sick, who's healing you, who's going to put you under and stitch you up if he's a surgeon.
01:17:41.000 I mean, there's so much to that.
01:17:43.000 When I had that experience with my gut, and there was just no...
01:17:49.000 Talk about nutrition at all.
01:17:51.000 And one of the major things with gut health is nutrition.
01:17:54.000 I mean, it blew my mind.
01:17:56.000 It blew my mind and I realized at that point, you know, I can either blame this guy for like not knowing or maybe people don't want to change their nutrition.
01:18:05.000 Maybe he's responding to people just wanting a pill.
01:18:08.000 I mean, that's possible.
01:18:09.000 There are a lot of people that don't want to make changes that are difficult to make.
01:18:14.000 And I don't really know what the case was, but regardless, it blew my mind.
01:18:18.000 And then at that point, I said, well, I have to do this myself.
01:18:22.000 You know, I have to figure out what's going on.
01:18:25.000 And that's kind of why I got to this sequencing my poop thing, because I've had issues in the past, and so I did sequence it.
01:18:32.000 And, you know, I would say that my, if you compare it to my husband, our gut bacteria is a little different, even though we eat the same diet, you know, we're on the same circadian schedule, things like that.
01:18:43.000 And this is because of the VSL number 3?
01:18:45.000 Well, what happened was after I took VSL number 3 for 30 days, I dramatically increased the amount of good bacteria in my gut.
01:18:53.000 I was really surprised.
01:18:55.000 I actually increased biodiversity.
01:18:57.000 So I was having new types of bacteria crop up that weren't there the first time I did this.
01:19:02.000 And I think that's because when you're...
01:19:06.000 Increasing the population of good bacteria in your gut, that's taking up space, and they make things called lactate, lactic acid.
01:19:15.000 It gets turned into lactic acid, which actually pathogenic bacteria can survive in that, so they actually die off.
01:19:21.000 So you're killing off this bad stuff, and that allows space, room for new bacteria to grow.
01:19:27.000 So lactic acid kills pathogenic bacteria?
01:19:30.000 Yes.
01:19:31.000 They can't live in an acidic environment.
01:19:33.000 Part of the lactobacillus strains that's in every probiotic, I mean you always see lactobacillus, XYZ, there's lots of different types.
01:19:43.000 One of the things they do is they generate lactate.
01:19:47.000 Lactate can get formed into lactic acid by adding a proton.
01:19:53.000 It's in a constant homeostasis thing where it's going between lactic and lactic acid.
01:19:59.000 But one of the things that does is it provides a more acidic environment in the colon where these pathogenic bacteria can't survive.
01:20:09.000 But is that related to lactic acid that's produced during exercise?
01:20:17.000 It's really interesting.
01:20:18.000 The lactic acid that's produced when you exercise is absolutely related to it.
01:20:24.000 It's the same thing, and it's actually beneficial.
01:20:26.000 Most people think of it as causing muscle soreness.
01:20:30.000 It's like, oh, I'm making too much lactic acid.
01:20:33.000 My muscles hurt.
01:20:35.000 It's not actually true.
01:20:36.000 So lactate, the reason why your gut likes it is because it's an easy source of energy.
01:20:41.000 It doesn't require energy.
01:20:43.000 So when you have glucose, when you eat carbohydrates that have glucose, you have to convert that into a form that your cells can use to make energy, and that requires energy to do that.
01:20:55.000 Well, lactate, it doesn't have to do that.
01:20:57.000 It's thermodynamically favorable, meaning it doesn't require energy to make energy.
01:21:02.000 Lactate goes right into the cell, and there's a transporter on their cell and also in your mitochondria, which is where the energy is made, where it just goes right in.
01:21:10.000 And it's a really easy, usable source of energy.
01:21:15.000 So when you exercise, and this has been shown, you make more lactate.
01:21:20.000 Now the lactic acid can form because your mitochondria are pushing out protons.
01:21:27.000 It's like a little technical, but basically they're pushing out protons and as the lactates there, it can like bind onto the lactate and form lactic acid.
01:21:34.000 But then at physiological pH, it goes back to lactate.
01:21:36.000 So it's like this back and forth deal.
01:21:38.000 But the lactate's been shown when you exercise to go into the brain.
01:21:43.000 Preferentially, your neurons actually use lactate, preferentially over glucose.
01:21:48.000 Most people don't know that.
01:21:49.000 But in your brain, so you have neurons and you have astrocytes.
01:21:53.000 And the astrocytes are supporting cells that make...
01:21:56.000 They make energy for your neurons.
01:21:58.000 They actually make lactate by using glucose.
01:22:01.000 They make lactate.
01:22:02.000 Lactate then gets shuttled to the neuron and it's a really easy source they can use for energy.
01:22:07.000 And it's actually the preferred source of energy for the brain.
01:22:10.000 And in fact, a friend of mine, he's a professor at UC Berkeley.
01:22:14.000 His name is George Brooks.
01:22:15.000 He's the guy that actually, he's an exercise physiologist and he's the guy that discovered the lactate transporter.
01:22:21.000 And figured out that basically when you're exercising this lactate that you're making, the reason you're making it is because typically when you're exercising, you're doing more work.
01:22:31.000 And that oxygen we were talking about that you usually breathe in and that's used to make energy, You're doing so much work that you don't have time for that, so the glucose that you have is being used in another way, and it's making energy quicker, but it also makes lactate as a byproduct.
01:22:45.000 And so that's why when you're exercising, that happens.
01:22:47.000 Our immune cells, our T cells, they're always making lactate.
01:22:52.000 The lactate that they made in the circulation, it goes to the muscle, it goes to the heart, it goes to the brain, and it's used as a source of energy.
01:23:00.000 Like I said, it's very easy to use, so it's great.
01:23:04.000 And actually, it's being used to treat TBI. My friend George Brooks is now collaborating with someone at UCLA. They're working with...
01:23:12.000 Mostly TBI from gunshot wounds, guys that are coming in from fights, gang fights, things like that.
01:23:20.000 They've got a TBI from a gunshot wound.
01:23:23.000 Well, they're finding that if they immediately administer lactate through their veins, so intravenously, they're able to then, lactate can go, as long as their blood-brain barrier is intact somewhat.
01:23:34.000 You have to be able to Have oxygen getting to your brain in order to do this.
01:23:38.000 But the lactate dramatically improves their healing.
01:23:43.000 And that's for a couple of reasons.
01:23:44.000 One is because when you get a TBI, your astrocytes, which usually make it for your neurons, exercise also does this, they get damaged.
01:23:53.000 And they're not, for some reason, and no one knows why, we haven't figured out why yet, they stop making the lactate.
01:23:59.000 They're damaged and they're trying to repair all this other stuff.
01:24:03.000 So then the neurons start to have to use glucose, which means they have to work harder to use glucose to turn it into energy.
01:24:10.000 Well, lactate is a lot easier for them to use.
01:24:13.000 And so one, that's one thing that's good.
01:24:16.000 Two is that glucose can then be used to make precursors for glutathione.
01:24:23.000 So glucose can be shunted into this other pathway where it can then make precursors for glutathione, which is actually the strongest antioxidant in the brain.
01:24:30.000 So under the sources of TBI, and this has been shown, when the lactate's administered, more of that glucose is then used to make glutathione.
01:24:37.000 They're repairing this damage, and so the neurons are getting this source of energy that's more easily used.
01:24:44.000 So the lactate, when you're exercising, is actually doing a lot of good.
01:24:47.000 And it's been, like, radio-labeled, where they're able to follow it and show that people, when they exercise, it goes right into the brain.
01:24:55.000 And what's really interesting is that I've made this connection, and I'm not saying this is true, but Parkinson's patients, people with Parkinson's disease.
01:25:03.000 So Parkinson's is a disease where you're...
01:25:08.000 The dopaminergic neurons in your substantia niagra and they're dying.
01:25:12.000 And so you're not making enough dopamine.
01:25:13.000 This affects motor control.
01:25:15.000 Well, if they're forced to exercise really hard, like if you have a two person bike and they're forced to like keep up.
01:25:21.000 So it's not like you allow them to choose how hard they exercise.
01:25:26.000 They're actually forced to do it hard.
01:25:28.000 It improves their symptoms.
01:25:30.000 So their motor control gets better.
01:25:31.000 They're walking.
01:25:32.000 So their gait, the way they walk improves.
01:25:35.000 And another study came out in flies that were genetically engineered to get kind of like a Parkinson's disease where they have this screwed up stuff going on in their neurons that's very similar to Parkinson's.
01:25:45.000 When they administered them, L-lactate, it actually improved all this other, you know, the cells weren't dying, so it improved all this Energetic metabolism, things like that.
01:25:54.000 And so I'm wondering if part of the exercise that benefits the Parkinson's patients has to do with the lactate that you're producing, which gets across the blood-brain barrier, gets into the brain, and then is an easily usable source of energy for the substantial Niagara neurons.
01:26:10.000 Wow, that is crazy.
01:26:12.000 Now, lactic acid doesn't cause the muscle soreness?
01:26:15.000 What is causing the muscle soreness?
01:26:16.000 Is it the damage of the tissue?
01:26:17.000 Well, lactic acid can cause some of the muscle soreness, but it's also used to repair the damage because the lactic goes into the muscle inside the cell and is used for energy.
01:26:30.000 And there is other damage that's going on from cytokines, and there's lots of things.
01:26:33.000 There's lots of inputs.
01:26:34.000 It's not just one thing.
01:26:35.000 Have you seen those things that people wear?
01:26:37.000 They're like pants that smush your legs and they're supposed to aid recovery?
01:26:43.000 They're like compression pants?
01:26:44.000 No.
01:26:45.000 You know what I'm talking about?
01:26:45.000 No.
01:26:46.000 God damn it.
01:26:47.000 Jamie, see if you can look that up.
01:26:48.000 They sent them to me.
01:26:49.000 I haven't used it, but my friend Cameron Haynes, he runs ultra marathons.
01:26:52.000 He ran a hundred and...
01:26:54.000 Six-something miles in 24 hours.
01:26:57.000 He's fucking nuts.
01:26:58.000 That's crazy.
01:26:59.000 He's crazy.
01:26:59.000 Dude has a full-time job, too.
01:27:01.000 He's a bow hunter.
01:27:02.000 That's why he does it.
01:27:03.000 He's a maniac.
01:27:04.000 But no, no, no.
01:27:05.000 These are compression pants.
01:27:08.000 They're for recovery.
01:27:10.000 I can't remember the name of the company.
01:27:13.000 They sent me one.
01:27:14.000 I never used it.
01:27:16.000 It's sitting in my garage somewhere.
01:27:18.000 But it's supposed to help, but it smushes your legs, and it's supposed to somehow or another improve your circulation or something.
01:27:26.000 Yeah, those are the things.
01:27:29.000 That's one of them.
01:27:30.000 The ones that I have look different than that.
01:27:34.000 Go back to that picture.
01:27:37.000 Go back to that picture.
01:27:38.000 The one on the right of those related images with the black.
01:27:42.000 Yeah, that's it.
01:27:43.000 Right there.
01:27:44.000 That and the one next to it.
01:27:46.000 Yeah, what is the name of the company that says that?
01:27:49.000 Nordic?
01:27:50.000 Yeah, Nordic Tech or something like that.
01:27:52.000 Is that what it says?
01:27:52.000 Norma Tech.
01:27:53.000 Norma Tech.
01:27:54.000 Yeah, that's the one that I have.
01:27:56.000 And I know people swear by that.
01:27:58.000 They say it really helps their recovery.
01:28:00.000 Now, when it helps your recovery, what is going on there?
01:28:03.000 Is it pushing the lactic acid out of your muscles?
01:28:06.000 And is that positive?
01:28:07.000 Or could that be possibly negative?
01:28:09.000 Or you just gave a pseudoscience look to that, didn't you?
01:28:13.000 You did, did you?
01:28:14.000 Yeah, I don't think that's happening.
01:28:16.000 I mean, the lactate would be used by the muscles and that would be beneficial.
01:28:21.000 I have no idea what's going on there.
01:28:24.000 Other than that, it looks really funny.
01:28:27.000 I have it.
01:28:28.000 Shit, I should have brought it in.
01:28:29.000 You haven't tried it on?
01:28:30.000 No.
01:28:31.000 You've never tried it?
01:28:31.000 No, I haven't tried it.
01:28:33.000 You have no idea what's going on there?
01:28:34.000 I have no idea what's going on there.
01:28:37.000 I mean, I could speculate and probably be totally wrong.
01:28:40.000 Well, Rogue Fitness has it, and those guys are pretty goddamn legit.
01:28:44.000 Let's go to the website and see if it has some sort of an explanation of what it does and see if Ronna calls bullshit.
01:28:53.000 Yeah, I'm sure an exercise physiologist would know much more about this than me.
01:28:58.000 What is it supposed to do?
01:28:59.000 Does it say?
01:29:00.000 Helps rejuvenate the muscle tissue and dramatically reduce tightness and soreness, meaning less downtime and greater productivity.
01:29:08.000 Full-length compression boots before and after intense workout can help rejuvenate.
01:29:15.000 Does that make sense?
01:29:16.000 It doesn't really ring any science bells in my head.
01:29:20.000 Just smushing your legs?
01:29:21.000 I mean, that's a type of stress.
01:29:23.000 Compression is a type of stress, which I think there are different physiological mechanisms that are responding to that, that probably are anti-inflammatory, but I know nothing about that, and so I'm just going to shut up.
01:29:34.000 Okay, why don't you go to the website and see if the website has...
01:29:36.000 It's fucking expensive.
01:29:37.000 Damn.
01:29:38.000 It's two grand.
01:29:39.000 Fifteen hundred bucks?
01:29:41.000 Go to the website and see if there's...
01:29:46.000 Two things that I wanted to get back to.
01:29:48.000 One thing is the second of the two things, of the first time I said two things, which was the exercise when those guys did exercise and then did cold water immersion.
01:30:02.000 How do we know what level of stress and how hard they were exercising?
01:30:08.000 You're talking about the guys who did the cold?
01:30:11.000 Yeah, they experienced a negative impact on muscle growth.
01:30:15.000 Well, I mean, I think you have to look at the types of exercise they were doing, and then everyone's different.
01:30:21.000 I mean, I've seen people at the gym that they're slow.
01:30:25.000 I mean, they take forever to do a set, and they don't look like they're pushing it.
01:30:29.000 So the fact that they completed a set, I think everyone's different, right?
01:30:34.000 It's hard to tell how...
01:30:36.000 I think a really good way to do the study...
01:30:39.000 Would actually be to measure a blood biomarker like IL-1 beta or TNF alpha, which are both pro-inflammatory cytokines.
01:30:47.000 Measure the level of that that's released immediately after exercise.
01:30:52.000 So people that are really, really pushing it, like competitively, competitive trainers, athletes, they're going to have a really, really high level of that.
01:31:01.000 Like, extremely high, like off the charts, versus someone who is not pushing it as hard.
01:31:07.000 So I think that would be one way to, at least in a study, when you're designing this trial, like, so you can know, okay, well, this is the amount of, you know, inflammation, this is the amount of, and you can measure other things as well, other biomarkers, of stress that's going on in this person that's doing training.
01:31:24.000 And I think most people know.
01:31:26.000 And then after that, okay, well, then after you measure that amount, Then you do the cold therapy and then you measure biomarkers later, like anti-inflammatory and things like that.
01:31:36.000 But you kind of assumed that they weren't working out that hard?
01:31:40.000 I assumed, based on the conflicting literature, if you look at these people that were doing the hill training, and I guess it's more endurance training, but you can work out hard by doing resistance training.
01:31:53.000 I'm not saying that's not possible.
01:31:54.000 Well, hill training, it might be endurance training, but it certainly has a big taxing effect on your muscles.
01:31:59.000 It's one of the most brutal things you can do to your muscles, right?
01:32:01.000 Right.
01:32:02.000 I mean, it is a type of resistance training as well.
01:32:05.000 Yeah, as opposed to the other guys which were just lifting weights.
01:32:08.000 They were doing leg presses and some kind of squat jumps where you...
01:32:13.000 I don't know what that is.
01:32:15.000 And I think there was something else they were doing.
01:32:17.000 But I think there's a spectrum.
01:32:20.000 I mean, there's a spectrum of athletes, of how people train.
01:32:24.000 I mean, some people train really, really, really hard.
01:32:26.000 And those people do...
01:32:28.000 We produce a lot of pro-inflammatory cytokines that spin out of control and start to not only do it have a hormetic effect where it's like, okay, this bad stuff is now signaling to turn on all this good stuff, which is great.
01:32:42.000 That's part of recovery and that's also part of growing new muscles.
01:32:46.000 So producing these damaging products activates mitochondria.
01:32:51.000 You grow more mitochondria.
01:32:53.000 And that's, you know, plays a role in things like building more muscle.
01:32:56.000 But if you have too much of that stress, it's all about the dose, then you start to have damage where the pro-stress stuff is going a little out of control.
01:33:07.000 And this is the case with people that are really, really overtraining.
01:33:10.000 And it's the case when you're injured, or like I said, in the case where you're actually getting traumatic injury, whether that's like a blow to the body or the head or...
01:33:20.000 With athletes it's a big issue trying to figure out when they are overtraining, and with wrestlers especially, they're almost chronically overtrained, especially amateur wrestlers.
01:33:31.000 One of the things that wrestlers develop is the ability to push through fatigue, It's a huge issue.
01:33:38.000 And it also creates incredible mental toughness.
01:33:41.000 I've found that amateur wrestlers are amongst the toughest, as a whole, the toughest groups of athletes that compete in mixed martial arts.
01:33:49.000 And I think one of the reasons is they're used to being really uncomfortable.
01:33:53.000 And they're used to training on a regular basis, like, way past their limits.
01:33:57.000 Like, I remember when I wrestled, I wrestled in high school, which is nothing in comparison to what they have to do in college, and especially what they have to do in, like, Olympic level.
01:34:06.000 Like, the amount of training and the brutal preparation that's involved is, if you haven't experienced it, you really don't know.
01:34:13.000 But a big factor is that these guys are overtrained all the time.
01:34:17.000 How does one know whether or not they're overtrained or whether or not you just have to keep pushing?
01:34:23.000 And push through like whatever level of fatigue and your body will eventually respond to it.
01:34:28.000 Yeah, I mean, I think that an exercise physiologist would probably be able to answer that much better than me.
01:34:35.000 But just my insights on it would be, I think, you know, measuring markers of muscle damage so your muscles release things when they start to be damaged.
01:34:43.000 So measuring these biomarkers of that like immediately after the training is a way to quantitate, at least in terms of like muscle damage, you can you can quantitate some of these things that are released when the muscles being We're good to go.
01:35:10.000 That would be my guess, but I don't really know.
01:35:13.000 I'm sure people are using different things that they biomark to measure if they're overtraining or not.
01:35:19.000 It's just not my...
01:35:19.000 With UFC athletes, there's very few people doing any kind of measuring of anything.
01:35:23.000 They're just training hard.
01:35:25.000 I mean, that's what they're doing.
01:35:26.000 It's very caveman-like in a way.
01:35:28.000 It's very old school.
01:35:30.000 in a lot of ways and I always wonder how much that mental toughness is actually them tripping over their own feet getting in the way of themselves actually recovering and would they be better off in some cases doing less and also does your your threshold does it build up over time with harder working out do you get like a higher capacity for work because you know as you get in better shape you can do more Yes.
01:35:57.000 And do you get your body to a level where it can just physically respond better to training, recover better training, do more, and then is there a boundary that you cross where that's no longer the case and now you're doing damage?
01:36:13.000 I think so.
01:36:14.000 And it has been shown that the more you train or the more stress you do induce on your body because you're activating a lot of those hormetic signaling pathways and a lot of those have to do with heat shock proteins.
01:36:27.000 Those get activated.
01:36:28.000 Those protect from muscles from getting damaged.
01:36:32.000 They protect from a lot of types of damage.
01:36:34.000 The more you train, and they've shown this in athletes, the more trained athletes, the more highly activated this is all the time in the person.
01:36:42.000 And when they have this activated, they can actually endure more stress, including injury.
01:36:47.000 And that's been shown even with heat training.
01:36:51.000 So if you like to, in addition to your workout, you also use the sauna to activate these heat shock proteins.
01:36:57.000 Then you can endure more stress the next time.
01:37:00.000 That's absolutely true.
01:37:01.000 Now the threshold into, okay, at what point then do we cross over into damage again?
01:37:06.000 Well, that happens when you're doing too much of the stress and then something else stressful happens again.
01:37:11.000 So the stress plus the stress equals death, cell death, muscle cells or what have you.
01:37:19.000 And I think it depends on the person in order to determine that threshold.
01:37:24.000 You know, it depends on how much they've trained, how much they've already built up those stress response mechanisms like heat shock proteins and other things that are activated from exercise.
01:37:37.000 And also, you know, exercise causes you to build more mitochondria.
01:37:41.000 So, you know, more trained athletes can endure more because they basically can make more energy.
01:37:46.000 And so there's all these things happening.
01:37:49.000 But I do absolutely think that that has been shown and that the more stress that you do endure, the Steve Maxwell, who's a good friend of mine, is also a really well-respected personal trainer, physical trainer.
01:38:01.000 He says measuring your heart rate is a big indicator.
01:38:04.000 That if you measure your heart rate every morning, your waking heart rate as you wake up, when it starts going up, when your heart rate is up 5 to 10 beats per minute in the morning, it's more than likely that you're overtrained.
01:38:14.000 And he advocates not training at all when that happens.
01:38:17.000 Whereas, you know, a lot of coaches were like, come on, don't be a bitch.
01:38:20.000 Like, get up.
01:38:21.000 You gotta work out.
01:38:22.000 You know, you gotta be tough.
01:38:23.000 You gotta be mentally tough.
01:38:24.000 He's like, that's nonsense.
01:38:25.000 You can't do that.
01:38:26.000 If your heart rate is 10 beats above the normal resting heart rate, it means there's an issue.
01:38:31.000 And if you break your body down more, you're gonna get sick, or you're gonna get injured, or something's gonna break.
01:38:37.000 Yeah.
01:38:38.000 And I've noticed that in myself, like when I really, really push it, like in the gym.
01:38:43.000 Do you check your heart rate?
01:38:44.000 I don't check my heart.
01:38:45.000 I mean, I have checked my heart rate, but I don't do it like when I wake up in the morning.
01:38:50.000 But I do notice that I will be more susceptible to getting sick.
01:38:54.000 Like if I really, really train, like push it really hard with my workout, like just over the top, I will end up getting sick.
01:39:03.000 I usually don't get sick a lot.
01:39:05.000 Once a year, maybe.
01:39:07.000 Not even once a year.
01:39:08.000 It doesn't hit me very often.
01:39:11.000 But if I really, really work out in the gym and then I'm stressed for work or something else, it's like, boom, those things, too, push me into the sickness.
01:39:18.000 Gut health for me has been a huge improvement on my immune system.
01:39:25.000 Just drinking kombucha.
01:39:26.000 I drink two of those a day, usually, on a regular basis.
01:39:29.000 I eat a lot of kimchi, which most people find disgusting.
01:39:32.000 But I love that stuff.
01:39:34.000 Fermented cabbage, the spicy fermented Korean cabbage.
01:39:37.000 I love kimchi.
01:39:37.000 I love it too.
01:39:38.000 I eat it all the time.
01:39:39.000 I mean, that makes perfect sense because when your gut health is poor and you have this chronic inflammation, then all the energy that you're generating, we've talked about this before, it's like getting triaged into resolving that inflammation.
01:39:55.000 Well, guess what?
01:39:56.000 Your immune cells, They sacrifice things, and they are basically not getting all the energy they need to make sure they're going to fight off this infection because this other infection over here, this chronic inflammation, well, that's more important.
01:40:10.000 That was there before, and that's going on, and it's not stopping.
01:40:13.000 So I think that gut health and the immune system, there's a very intimate connection between Your gut health and your overall health, your heart health, you know, your immune health, just everything.
01:40:27.000 I think the gut health is indicative of your health status and brain function, as you mentioned.
01:40:31.000 I mean that, it really blows my mind and there's been just study after study coming out showing that gut health is linked to depression, anxiety.
01:40:44.000 And this VSL-3 that you took, the 30 days of VSL-3, did you notice any effect on your mind?
01:40:50.000 I didn't.
01:40:51.000 I really didn't try to focus on that.
01:40:54.000 So I have no idea.
01:40:56.000 I was really just trying to see if there were anything that was irritating my gut.
01:41:01.000 You know, so I was really focusing more on the gut.
01:41:03.000 So to deal with your inflamed bowel issues.
01:41:07.000 Yeah.
01:41:07.000 And has it had any effect?
01:41:11.000 I mean, has it benefited you in any tangible ways?
01:41:14.000 It has.
01:41:15.000 Yes, it has benefited me.
01:41:16.000 You know, I don't get a lot of flare-ups, you know, when I'm traveling and I don't get to eat.
01:41:22.000 I drink this smoothie every single day that's like got tons of fiber because it's got vegetables and Even when you're on the road, do you bring it with you?
01:41:29.000 I don't.
01:41:29.000 And so that's when my gut's more susceptible.
01:41:32.000 But I've noticed that I'm a little more resilient now.
01:41:37.000 And the BSL No.
01:41:38.000 3, I think it has helped me become more resilient because it's increased the amount of the good things that are helping my gut cells.
01:41:47.000 And my gut cells have been damaged.
01:41:49.000 And also when they're...
01:41:51.000 When they're prone to activation easily, then the pain stuff happens and there's lots of neurons in your gut, you know, so that you're basically just hyperactive and the pain signals start to get activated and it's just a big mess.
01:42:04.000 But I have noticed that it has helped my gut become more resilient.
01:42:10.000 I found out about probiotics through jiu-jitsu because a lot of people in jiu-jitsu, they get all sorts of weird skin conditions like ringworm is a big one, staph is a big one, and I had both of those.
01:42:22.000 I had staph twice, and I didn't get MSO. MRSA. MRSA. I didn't get MRSA, but I did get regular staph, and I took some ungodly antibiotic that made me a zombie.
01:42:36.000 I felt so dumb.
01:42:38.000 It was weird.
01:42:40.000 It had a weird effect on my brain.
01:42:43.000 I took it, and I remember I was out to dinner with some friends, and I was telling them that it's on this medication for staph.
01:42:49.000 And I feel like I'm so out of it.
01:42:53.000 I'm drained.
01:42:54.000 I feel like I'm a half full glass and my brain is just not firing right.
01:43:01.000 And that's been shown.
01:43:03.000 So when you're taking antibiotics, you're wiping out a lot of your gut bacteria, or microbiome as it's called.
01:43:11.000 You're wiping out the bad stuff, you're wiping out the good stuff, you're wiping out lots of things.
01:43:15.000 And what's really interesting is that there is this connection between the gut and the brain and between the bacteria in your gut and the brain.
01:43:24.000 It's so interesting to me that there's some studies that have shown in mice, when you take a mouse that's, for example, anxious, take the gut bacteria, like a poop, and you do a fecal transplant, and you transplant it into a mouse that's not anxious,
01:43:40.000 the mouse becomes anxious, and vice versa.
01:43:42.000 Is it possible he's anxious because you're messing with poop?
01:43:47.000 No?
01:43:47.000 I think, you know, it's been shown in other ways as well.
01:43:50.000 Timid versus not timid.
01:43:52.000 And this has been shown in people.
01:43:54.000 So, I mean, what's going on there, right?
01:43:56.000 These mice have different gut bacteria and you're taking one from this mouse and transplanting another and all of a sudden it starts to become more anxious and things like that.
01:44:05.000 And the one that's not anxious, you transplant that into it and that usually is anxious.
01:44:12.000 You transplant the not anxious gut bacteria and it becomes not anxious.
01:44:17.000 There's a few things going on here and people actually there's been there's been clinical trials where people have supplemented with various strains of probiotics so like for example there was a trial where people took lactobacillus casey and they took it for some amount of time I don't remember but they became less depressed And also had to rely less on if they were taking some sort of,
01:44:42.000 you know, drug to help with the depression, stopped having to take it.
01:44:46.000 And then another study showed that people that were anxious that supplemented with another type of lactobacillus called lactobacillus rhaminusis.
01:44:55.000 They became less anxious after taking it for some amount of time.
01:45:00.000 And so, you know, we really don't know why that is, but there's some speculation.
01:45:04.000 You know, one is that, you know, these types of bacteria that are producing, you know, lactate in your gut.
01:45:10.000 Well, lactobacillus rhaminusis also produces a neurotransmitter in the gut called GABA, which is an inhibitory neurotransmitter.
01:45:16.000 Which a lot of people take as a supplement, but I've heard that it's not that effective.
01:45:20.000 So, yeah, it's not supposed to cross over the blood-brain barrier, as far as I know.
01:45:27.000 Maybe there's some studies showing that it can, but I don't think it can.
01:45:31.000 As far as I've read, it's not very good at crossing over the blood-brain barrier.
01:45:35.000 But, in the gut, it actually inhibits the production of inflammatory cytokines, all this stuff we've been talking about.
01:45:43.000 And that would have an effect because inflammation, inflammatory cytokines, cross over the blood-brain barrier and they stop serotonin from being released.
01:45:50.000 They cause all sorts of problems.
01:45:52.000 So even though the GABA is not breaking through the blood-brain barrier, it's having an effect on the gut, which is influencing the mind itself.
01:45:59.000 Exactly.
01:45:59.000 And the other thing is there's a direct line from the gut to the brain.
01:46:04.000 It's called the vagal nerve.
01:46:06.000 And we're really starting to scratch the surface on understanding how this works.
01:46:10.000 We don't know.
01:46:11.000 When I say we, I mean scientists.
01:46:12.000 I'm not actually doing this research.
01:46:14.000 I should clarify that.
01:46:15.000 But scientists are starting to scratch the surface that we're trying to understand.
01:46:20.000 But literally, it's a line that goes to the brainstem and it extends into the gut.
01:46:26.000 And there's some kind of connection and communication going on there where the bugs in the gut are sending signals to the brain via this vagal nerve.
01:46:35.000 We don't know exactly how it works, but it's doing it.
01:46:37.000 And that's another possible way that certain gut bugs, which are producing these neurotransmitters, may be affecting brain function.
01:46:47.000 So I think there's two ways.
01:46:48.000 One is the inflammation, where they're basically lowering the production of these bad things that cross over the brain and can cause all sorts of problems by decreasing serotonin.
01:46:59.000 And two is they're communicating with this vagal nerve.
01:47:03.000 Isn't that incredible when you think about that term, follow your gut instinct?
01:47:07.000 That your gut really is communicating with your brain or even following your heart.
01:47:12.000 And they found that there's all sorts of neurons in the heart.
01:47:16.000 Really?
01:47:16.000 Yeah, there was some study that found neurons in the human heart.
01:47:20.000 They were trying to make some sort of a correlation between the actual heart.
01:47:29.000 Here, is the heart overlooked?
01:47:32.000 There's a TED talk on it.
01:47:33.000 Is the heart overlooked when it comes to intelligence?
01:47:36.000 The center of the nervous system of the brain has been popularly defined as a fundamental core of intellectual activity, yet in biochemistry class, bioelectricity class, bioelectricity class?
01:47:44.000 With Professor Nina Tandon, we learned about recent research suggesting that the information processing in the body may in fact be more distributed.
01:47:52.000 For example, there are increasing evidence suggesting that the, oh boy, that's a big word, cardio-electromagnetic field can actually affect human beings in close proximity.
01:48:01.000 These signals are stronger in amplitude when in direct contact, but are still detectable up to several feet away from the source.
01:48:08.000 Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
01:48:10.000 Where's the fucking thing about the heart?
01:48:13.000 Yeah, that's fascinating.
01:48:15.000 I mean, this reminds me of this study that just came out where we found...
01:48:20.000 Brain cells in the heart.
01:48:21.000 Yeah.
01:48:22.000 I'm sorry, this is another one.
01:48:24.000 That's okay.
01:48:26.000 Neurologica blog.
01:48:27.000 Have you ever read that?
01:48:28.000 No.
01:48:31.000 But they're saying a certain flavor of misconception that occurs when a cultural belief intersects with a scientific factoid that superficially seems to support the belief.
01:48:41.000 A powerful meme emerged to the effect of science now provides what we have known, believed all along.
01:48:46.000 Gurus latch onto this idea to provide apparent credibility to their mysticism.
01:48:52.000 The media eats it up.
01:48:53.000 One such meme has been around for a while that the heart contains brain cells and therefore has a mind of its own, at least part of the human mind.
01:49:01.000 This is something probably to look into that might be too complicated to read off of this, but what I have understood, what I have read, something about neurons, and it's talking about neurons, it says not all neurons contribute directly to the mind,
01:49:17.000 but they are saying that there are neurons in the human heart.
01:49:22.000 Well, I mean, neurons making certain, you know, neurotransmitter, depending on if they're in the gut or where they're at, you know, that does affect the brain, you know, either, you know, through an indirect or if it's the gut, a direct mechanism through the vagal nerve.
01:49:34.000 But these indirect mechanisms, just by, like I said, the inflammatory cytokines that are produced, I mean, that has an indirect effect on the brain.
01:49:42.000 So...
01:49:44.000 It's, you know, recently we found the brain is connected to the immune system.
01:49:48.000 Like, literally, the lymphatic system, you know, is connected to the brain.
01:49:52.000 And that's like something that was never, it was thought to never exist.
01:49:56.000 What does it say here?
01:49:57.000 Short answer.
01:49:58.000 The heart isn't made of neurons, but a different type of cell with some neuron-like characteristics.
01:50:04.000 Hmm.
01:50:05.000 Cardiomyocytes.
01:50:06.000 Cardiomyocytes.
01:50:07.000 To understand what this means.
01:50:09.000 Okay, this is probably something...
01:50:10.000 Well, those are stems.
01:50:11.000 Cardiomyocytes are like the muscle...
01:50:14.000 Like, the muscle cells in the heart.
01:50:19.000 There's another thing about here.
01:50:21.000 Okay.
01:50:21.000 Second brain is in your heart neurons.
01:50:24.000 Hmm.
01:50:25.000 Trust your gut feelings.
01:50:27.000 A second brain in the heart is now much more than a hypothesis.
01:50:30.000 Prominent medical expert Dr. Maurice Renard and others have discovered that recipients of heart transplants are inheriting donors' memories and consequently report huge changes in their taste, their personality, and most extraordinarily their emotional memories.
01:50:45.000 Okay, that might be nonsense.
01:50:48.000 I don't know if that's true or not, but that's so anecdotal.
01:50:52.000 And also you're dealing with the massive traumatic incident of having your chest ripped open with a fucking double rake machine and they operating your fucking heart.
01:51:03.000 A lot of shit going on there.
01:51:04.000 I think the gut definitely could be the second brain.
01:51:07.000 I don't know about the heart, but the gut is definitely becoming convinced.
01:51:12.000 I think there's probably a symbiotic relationship to all the cells of the body.
01:51:18.000 And I think our idea that the way we feel is all in the brain, you know, that it's all in the mind, that seems to be not true.
01:51:24.000 And it seems to be...
01:51:26.000 We know that the human body as a whole has some sort of a symbiotic relationship with all the other cells.
01:51:33.000 We know that when things go bad in certain parts, it can affect other parts.
01:51:37.000 But we kind of want to, like, dissect things and minimalize and look at things like...
01:51:42.000 And break things down to like the lowest common denominator or one area and say, well, if you just fix this, it'll fix that.
01:51:49.000 This is interesting because I think it goes both ways as well.
01:51:54.000 Like things that are good for the mind are also good for the body.
01:51:58.000 And I kind of, I've been getting into this meditation recently because I had my first flotation tank experience a couple days ago, I guess it was.
01:52:06.000 Really?
01:52:07.000 Yeah.
01:52:08.000 What'd you think?
01:52:09.000 I found that it was a very easy way for me to meditate.
01:52:15.000 It provided more of a structure for me to meditate.
01:52:19.000 And, you know, that makes sense because, you know, it's dark and I'm not, like, hearing things and seeing...
01:52:26.000 I think seeing things is the big for me.
01:52:28.000 Like, if I see things, it's visual stimulation, so my mind wanders to other things.
01:52:34.000 But...
01:52:34.000 I found that it was a very...
01:52:36.000 It's hard for me to meditate in general.
01:52:40.000 It's hard for everybody, right?
01:52:41.000 Yeah.
01:52:41.000 I mean, I think the more you do it, it becomes...
01:52:43.000 Supposedly it becomes easier.
01:52:46.000 But I've been very interested in the benefits of meditation.
01:52:49.000 And so the flotation was an interesting experience because I felt like it was definitely easier to think about, you know, whatever I was thinking about at the time, which is...
01:53:00.000 I tend to analyze my intents and things like why I behave the way I behave and I start to get into this whole analytical breakdown where I try to think about why I do things and then it helps affect my future decisions, it helps me understand other people,
01:53:15.000 things like that.
01:53:19.000 You know, there's a lot of brain benefits to meditation that are known.
01:53:22.000 I mean, it's been shown to slow cognitive aging.
01:53:24.000 You know, there's one study where they looked at, like, 50-year-old brains of people that have meditated for some years, and they looked like a 25-year-old brain.
01:53:35.000 So, I mean, you might say, well, they're probably doing other things as well, and a follow-up study showed that if you just take normal people after eight weeks of, like, making them do this mindful type of meditation, they increase the volume of Brain matter in five different regions of the brain So,
01:53:50.000 you know, meditation is affecting the brain.
01:53:53.000 And, you know, how it's doing that, there's a variety of possibilities.
01:53:56.000 But something that I found very interesting was that it also affects the aging process in general, not just brain aging.
01:54:05.000 So meditation's actually been shown to prevent the shortening of telomeres, which is super interesting, because you're talking about slowing aging in general.
01:54:18.000 And the way it does that is by activating the enzyme telomerase, which usually is not active in most of our cells.
01:54:24.000 And meditation is able to activate that enzyme.
01:54:28.000 So telomeres, the reason telomeres shorten each year, each day, is because every time you make a new cell, Your cell has to, the telomere is, it's got DNA, you know, just like anything else in your body.
01:54:42.000 When your cell is replicating everything in the cell, the whole genome, it has to replicate the DNA of the telomere.
01:54:49.000 Well, there's like this structural defect in the way the DNA is that the machinery that replicates it, it like can't get to this little piece at the very end.
01:54:57.000 So the cell machinery goes, okay, well, I've replicated it this far.
01:55:01.000 I can't do the rest.
01:55:02.000 And so it's like, screw it.
01:55:03.000 So this little piece of telomere DNA doesn't get replicated.
01:55:06.000 So the next cell has a telomere that's just a little bit shorter.
01:55:09.000 And this keeps happening every time your cells divide and replicate.
01:55:13.000 So eventually, you know, decades later, you have really, really short telomeres.
01:55:17.000 And then the cell can either undergo cell death or it can become senescent, which means it's basically...
01:55:24.000 Not dead, but it's sitting around and it's secreting all this bad stuff that damages other cells.
01:55:29.000 So, okay, so long story short, kind of, is that your telomeres are getting shorter and that's happening just in all of us.
01:55:37.000 Things that make it worse are inflammation, these, you know, things that damage our DNA that we talked about.
01:55:43.000 But you can rebuild those telomeres by activating telomerase.
01:55:46.000 And telomerase then, even though the telomere is short...
01:55:49.000 It will rebuild that piece that wasn't copied.
01:55:52.000 So it can make it longer.
01:55:55.000 That's not active in most of our cells.
01:55:57.000 It's active in our stem cells.
01:55:58.000 But meditation activates that gene that makes telomerase.
01:56:02.000 And the telomerase becomes active and it rebuilds telomeres.
01:56:06.000 I find that fascinating.
01:56:08.000 That's unbelievable.
01:56:09.000 That meditation can do that.
01:56:10.000 So meditation, isolation tank, cold, hot...
01:56:14.000 Gut health, all these things, you live to a thousand.
01:56:17.000 Right.
01:56:18.000 Exercise.
01:56:19.000 What about TA65? Did we talk about that in the last broadcast?
01:56:23.000 Yeah, we talked about it.
01:56:23.000 We talked about it.
01:56:24.000 And that has some sort of an effect on telomeres, but people aren't really embracing that.
01:56:28.000 Well, it also activates telomerase much more robustly than meditation does.
01:56:35.000 The thing that people are worried about is that you're talking about if you have a person that doesn't have a good lifestyle, a person that's eating a bunch of refined carbohydrates, refined sugars, they're causing all this endotoxin to be released from their gut, which is damaging all this stuff.
01:56:51.000 Those people, if you have a bunch of damage in your cell, it can lead to mutations, and the mutations eventually can cause cancer.
01:57:00.000 Well, what happens is that your cell will decide to die as a sacrifice.
01:57:05.000 It's like, no, I don't want to get cancer, so I'm just going to pop and explode and, you know, die.
01:57:13.000 And this also happens as we age and our telomeres get shorter.
01:57:17.000 But if you have something that can activate telomerase, cancer cells actually use this mechanism to overcome our inherent death signals that is like an adaptive mechanism to getting damage.
01:57:28.000 They overcome it by activating telomerase all the time.
01:57:32.000 So then they're like, no, I'm going to live forever.
01:57:34.000 My telomeres aren't going to get short.
01:57:36.000 I have all this damage in the cell and I'm just going to keep on going.
01:57:39.000 So that's why people are worried about things like TX-65, and until there's long-term studies done, it's out there.
01:57:48.000 I mean, people are using it.
01:57:49.000 Well, I know one guy that used it.
01:57:51.000 He was working for the company that made it, and then he sued them because he got cancer.
01:57:56.000 I mean, obviously, it's one incident, and who knows if he was getting cancer anyway.
01:58:00.000 I don't know, but I read that, and I was like, ooh.
01:58:03.000 Yeah.
01:58:04.000 That probably is the case where if you have someone that already has cancer, it's not a good idea to take TI-65.
01:58:11.000 But if you already have cancer, it's also not a good idea to supplement with high doses of folic acid.
01:58:16.000 It's again down to that situation, that person-to-person experience.
01:58:19.000 So if you already have cancer, you already have cells that are mutated, that are damaged, And you take something that's going to allow their telomeres to get longer, then you're going to overcome that cell death mechanism that usually is like, die.
01:58:33.000 And now a cancer cell isn't going to die.
01:58:36.000 My friend Bobby's dad took it, and this is where it got weird.
01:58:39.000 I believe his dad's in his 60s.
01:58:41.000 His vision got better.
01:58:42.000 And I was like, whoa.
01:58:44.000 That's fucking crazy.
01:58:46.000 I mean, that's cool.
01:58:48.000 Maybe when you're 60, you're like, fuck it, let's roll the dice.
01:58:51.000 Let's see.
01:58:53.000 You know?
01:58:54.000 I think when you're 60, you still have quite a few years left.
01:58:59.000 I mean, the average lifespan in the United States is like 79, I think.
01:59:06.000 And that's people that eat like shit.
01:59:08.000 Yeah, I mean, that's like the standard American diet.
01:59:11.000 And that's the thing that really drives me nuts when they put out these studies.
01:59:15.000 They say, vitamins don't increase your life.
01:59:17.000 They're useless.
01:59:18.000 People live just the same amount.
01:59:20.000 First of all, Optimization is what everybody's after.
01:59:24.000 What everybody wants to do is feel the best that they possibly can.
01:59:27.000 And if you say that vitamins don't make you feel better than not having vitamins, that means to me that you're not taking vitamins.
01:59:32.000 Or you're not supplementing your diet and you're not eating healthy.
01:59:36.000 If you don't think that it has an effect, that optimizing the way you eat and the things that you put into your body doesn't have an effect on the way you feel and the way your body moves through this world, I don't buy that.
01:59:47.000 It just doesn't make any sense.
01:59:48.000 And I also don't think there's been enough long-term studies on people who have been optimizing their health and nutrition, because I don't know how many people are really doing it right.
01:59:57.000 I'm barely doing it right, and I fucking focus on it a lot.
02:00:01.000 I've actually been really diving into this topic recently because when you say doing it right, to me that means we're all different and we all have a different genetic makeup.
02:00:12.000 So doing it right varies.
02:00:13.000 It does.
02:00:14.000 And there are so many polymorphisms in genes that affect vitamins and minerals, for example.
02:00:21.000 I know three people already that have a gene polymorphism in the vitamin D pathway.
02:00:28.000 So they're...
02:00:29.000 Unable to convert vitamin D3 into the pre-hormone.
02:00:35.000 They don't do it very well.
02:00:37.000 So what that means is that they actually have to take higher doses of vitamin D3 than I would take to get the vitamin D3 to be converted into that precursor for vitamin D, which is a steroid hormone that's controlling so many different processes in the body.
02:00:53.000 I talk about it all the time.
02:00:57.000 If you never get your vitamin D levels tested or if you don't look at your genetic data, which we can do now, there's consumer tools available like 23andMe that allow you to spit in a tube and send it off to this company that will then sequence all these different gene polymorphisms that are common.
02:01:16.000 And from there, you can actually interpret the data by using other tools that allow you to do that.
02:01:24.000 Prometheus is one.
02:01:25.000 It's a tool that's $5 and it lets you export your 23andMe data into this.
02:01:31.000 It basically matches it against this huge database that has all these different...
02:01:35.000 Publications on different gene polymorphisms and allows you to understand what's going on.
02:01:39.000 But I think it's really important.
02:01:41.000 So these vitamin D polymorphisms are associated with higher all-cause mortality.
02:01:46.000 So people that have this form of the gene that converts vitamin D3 into the pre-hormone, That doesn't do it well.
02:01:54.000 They actually are more likely to die of all sorts of diseases with the exception of accidents sooner than people that don't have it, which to me says, and they also have much, much lower circulating levels of vitamin D. They actually need more vitamin D. Yeah,
02:02:12.000 I think.
02:02:26.000 Epigenetics, which is how genes get activated or deactivated, and this changes in our environment.
02:02:32.000 So folate is in greens, you know, and we get it from eating green plants.
02:02:37.000 It's important to make new DNA, but it's also important, like a fork, it's important to make new DNA, so it provides precursors for that, which you need to make new cells.
02:02:46.000 It's also important to make these precursors to make epigenetic factors that Regulate and turn genes on when they're supposed to and turn genes off when they're supposed to be turned off.
02:02:58.000 And 40% of the population has one polymorphism where they're not doing it efficiently.
02:03:03.000 So I'm not making these precursors as efficiently as I could be.
02:03:09.000 My mom is much, much worse.
02:03:11.000 She's got one that she's at 10% of her efficiency.
02:03:15.000 So she's only doing this at 10% as opposed to 100%.
02:03:19.000 But there's a way around it.
02:03:21.000 You can supplement with something called methylfolate.
02:03:23.000 So it's an easy solution.
02:03:26.000 There's other things like vitamin A pathway, for example.
02:03:30.000 You know, most people take beta carotene.
02:03:33.000 Beta carotene can be converted into vitamin A, which is very important for your immune cells to work, right?
02:03:39.000 And beta carotene also does things on its own.
02:03:41.000 It's an antioxidant.
02:03:43.000 But, like, a lot of people have a variation in the gene that converts beta carotene into vitamin A where they can't do it.
02:03:49.000 So they may be low on vitamin A, and as a consequence, your immune cells aren't working well.
02:03:55.000 They may get sick a lot or something like that.
02:03:57.000 So I think finding out certain things.
02:03:59.000 And there's also interactions with dietary macronutrients as well.
02:04:06.000 I've seen a couple of people that have a polymorphism, and it's also common, in a gene that doesn't allow them to To basically metabolize saturated fat as well.
02:04:17.000 And so these people actually, when they go on like a ketogenic diet, instead of losing weight, they actually gain weight and they actually do worse.
02:04:24.000 Whereas most people...
02:04:25.000 Ketogenic, meaning like the Atkins diet?
02:04:27.000 Meaning like a diet that's high in fat and like 10% protein, very, very low carbohydrate.
02:04:32.000 But yeah, so these people have a certain variation in this gene and that...
02:04:39.000 Regulates how they're utilizing fat.
02:04:43.000 In order to optimize your diet, your lifestyle, the supplements you're taking, I think the future will also be looking at this interaction between your genes and What these genes mean and what you can do to kind of overcome this.
02:05:03.000 Well, let's say I have this vitamin D one.
02:05:04.000 Take more vitamin D. Let's say I have this one that doesn't convert beta carotene into vitamin A well.
02:05:10.000 What do I do?
02:05:11.000 Well, I make sure I get foods that are rich in vitamin A, like organ meat or Or I take a supplement.
02:05:17.000 You don't want to take too much because vitamin A can be toxic.
02:05:19.000 There's another common one in phosphatylcholine, which is what our livers make to basically secrete fatty acids and triglycerides and stuff out of the liver to be transported by cholesterol, LDL, and things like that.
02:05:33.000 People have it, they can't do that very well, and they end up getting fatty liver.
02:05:37.000 Not only that, phosphatylcholine is important for all cells and for your brain, and low levels have been associated with Alzheimer's.
02:05:44.000 It's actually a biomarker.
02:05:45.000 Low phosphatylcholine levels are associated with increased Alzheimer's disease risk.
02:05:50.000 But, you know, there's a simple solution.
02:05:52.000 You can supplement with phosphatylcholine, or you can increase your choline intake because it can be converted into phosphatylcholine.
02:05:59.000 Things like that, I think, are really Interesting to kind of look at your unique makeup and how you can optimize your micronutrient intake and your macronutrient intake based on your own genetic makeup.
02:06:12.000 And I've seen like even with my mother-in-law, she's been taking methylfolate Because she's one of those people that don't use folate very well to make those precursors for epigenetics.
02:06:23.000 And she's always had really, really high blood pressure.
02:06:26.000 Well, one of the consequences of having this gene is that homocysteine builds up in your blood vessels, and that can have an effect of increasing blood pressure.
02:06:37.000 And this is an N of 1, but it's possible that that's helped.
02:06:40.000 I mean, she's never been able to lower her blood pressure, so it's really kind of exciting for her.
02:06:44.000 I've been diving into this recently, and I also have made a free tool on my website where people can export their 23andMe data, and I'm going to allow them to look at all the genes that I've been researching and finding that are interesting in terms of gene-nutrient interactions and ways to bypass that and get around it that you can find coming very,
02:07:07.000 very soon.
02:07:07.000 I think in a couple of days I'm going to be uploading that.
02:07:10.000 Awesome.
02:07:11.000 Well, let me know as soon as it's out, and I'll tweet it.
02:07:13.000 Cool.
02:07:13.000 Two other things, actually.
02:07:17.000 Cholesterol.
02:07:19.000 Does cholesterol all come from animal protein or from animals?
02:07:24.000 Where do you get cholesterol if you want to eat a vegan diet?
02:07:30.000 LDL cholesterol, you know, you make cholesterol in your body, and you do get cholesterol from dietary cholesterol, but you also can make cholesterol.
02:07:42.000 So, like in your brain, the dietary cholesterol that you take in doesn't get into your brain.
02:07:47.000 You actually make everything in your brain.
02:07:50.000 And what are the precursors?
02:07:52.000 The precursors for that are, for example, acetyl-CoA.
02:07:56.000 Really all you need is acetyl-CoA.
02:07:58.000 So you can actually make it from having acetyl-CoA, which you can get from even sugar, carbohydrates, glucose.
02:08:08.000 Acetyl-CoA is made from those things as well.
02:08:11.000 So having acetyl-CoA Is an essential part of that and then from there you can go on and there's all these other enzymes that can make that but that's that's really how people can make it like that don't eat any fat at all.
02:08:25.000 So people who have a vegan diet where they don't eat any animal protein and they don't take in any animal food that it's still possible to have healthy cholesterol levels healthy LDL cholesterol levels you Well, I think that it's...
02:08:41.000 More difficult?
02:08:42.000 I think it's easier for those people to have lower levels of LDL, which, like I said, you need LDL cholesterol to repair damage.
02:08:51.000 And so it's possible that their wound healing is slowed.
02:08:54.000 It's possible that they don't repair damage as well or as quick.
02:08:57.000 That makes sense.
02:08:58.000 I don't really know.
02:08:59.000 Travis Barker?
02:09:00.000 Do you know that guy?
02:09:01.000 No.
02:09:01.000 Blink-182 drummer?
02:09:02.000 I know Blink-182, but I didn't...
02:09:04.000 There you go.
02:09:04.000 Travis Barker, a very famous drummer, he was in a very famous plane crash, and he was a vegan, and apparently he was having a hard time with the skin grafts, and then he got off the vegan diet to try to fix that, and it helped him.
02:09:18.000 So is that what you think that would be?
02:09:19.000 Well, you also need protein and things like that to repair damage, but yeah, that would make sense.
02:09:23.000 But you can get protein, obviously, from plant sources.
02:09:25.000 Right.
02:09:26.000 And as long as you take in the right amount, especially like hemp hearts or quinoa or complete proteins that are in plant form, you can live a healthy life.
02:09:38.000 That's a big misconception, right?
02:09:39.000 You just need a lot of work to live a healthy life and be vegan.
02:09:43.000 Yeah, you also can get a lot of fat.
02:09:45.000 I mean avocados, olives, olive oil, peanuts.
02:09:47.000 Yeah, there's lots of...
02:09:48.000 I get a lot of my fat from plants.
02:09:52.000 I eat a lot of avocados.
02:09:53.000 I eat probably two a day.
02:09:54.000 I eat at least one a day.
02:09:55.000 I put one in my smoothie.
02:09:56.000 Avocados actually increase the absorption of carotenoids like beta-carotene, lutein, zeaxanthin, which are good for the eyes.
02:10:03.000 So, like, I put one in my smoothie, like, every day.
02:10:06.000 I love avocados, but that's definitely one of my sources.
02:10:09.000 Yeah, I just like the way they taste, too.
02:10:11.000 The other thing I want to ask you about is acidity in the gut.
02:10:15.000 Well, you were talking about lactic acid and acidity and, what was it, certain types of bacteria that cannot live in that environment that are negative?
02:10:25.000 When people talk about, like, there's this way that people talk about cancer.
02:10:30.000 And they always say that cancer, you know, can't live in an alkaline environment.
02:10:35.000 You have to make your blood alkaline.
02:10:36.000 And I'm always like, boy, that sounds like fucking hokum.
02:10:39.000 I hear that all the time.
02:10:41.000 And I'm like, can you really affect your body that much that you make your blood alkaline or acidic?
02:10:48.000 Is that nonsense?
02:10:49.000 The reason people talk about that in terms of cancer is because cancer cells are making lactic acid.
02:10:56.000 So one of the changes that occurs in a cancer cell is that it goes from using oxygen and carbohydrate or protein or fat, whatever source as energy, and that happens in your mitochondria, that coupled process of oxygen plus the food,
02:11:13.000 to make energy.
02:11:15.000 Well, cancer cells They stop doing that and they just use the energy part so they don't need oxygen.
02:11:23.000 They just use glucose to make energy and that byproduct is lactic acid.
02:11:29.000 Lactate, which then can form lactic acid.
02:11:31.000 And so I think that's where people get this whole...
02:11:34.000 Mm-hmm.
02:11:52.000 Making this metabolic change for a few reasons.
02:11:55.000 One is because if you have oxygen and your mitochondria are working and using the oxygen, you're going to make those damaging byproducts that we talked about, superoxide, hydrogen peroxide, And those will kill a cancer cell.
02:12:11.000 So, you know, and that's one of the things when you actually have a cancer cell and you force it to activate its mitochondria, the cancer cell will die.
02:12:19.000 And that's, it's used.
02:12:20.000 Like there's certain chemo drugs that do that, that are used effectively to, you know, kill these cancer cells.
02:12:26.000 But, you know, it's...
02:12:29.000 The reason that they make this lactic acid has nothing to do with it can't live in an alkaline environment.
02:12:36.000 That's just people making associations.
02:12:38.000 It's because they're basically using glucose.
02:12:41.000 And that's why if you starve a cancer cell of glucose, it can also dramatically slow its progress.
02:12:48.000 And sometimes it kills it.
02:12:50.000 If it doesn't have glucose, it can't.
02:12:52.000 Can't make energy.
02:12:53.000 It still can.
02:12:54.000 I mean, it still will use its mitochondria, but when it uses its mitochondria, it's more likely to kill it.
02:12:59.000 So, that's kind of...
02:13:02.000 So that's where that's coming from.
02:13:03.000 I think that's where that's coming from.
02:13:05.000 That's what I call yoga people talk.
02:13:07.000 Because yoga people always like to say things like that.
02:13:09.000 You know, like, cancer can't live in an alkaline environment.
02:13:12.000 If you only eat plants and vegetables, your blood will be alkaline.
02:13:16.000 And you cannot get...
02:13:16.000 I'm like, well, I don't fucking think you're right.
02:13:19.000 And I think this is...
02:13:20.000 How much research have you done?
02:13:21.000 This is some shady talk.
02:13:23.000 Yeah.
02:13:24.000 Well, those yoga people are going to like the meditation telomerase thing that I talked about, though.
02:13:28.000 But that's real science, so...
02:13:30.000 The other thing I wanted to ask you about is hot yoga, like the effect of hot exercise, whether or not that mimics what you were talking about, about core body temperature that's going on in sauna.
02:13:42.000 The Kronk Gym is a legendary boxing gym, and Emanuel Stewart, who's one of the greatest boxing trainers of all time, used to force his fighters to train with the heat cranked way up.
02:13:53.000 So it was just unbelievably hot in there, and people would go there to work out, they'd be like, Jesus Christ.
02:13:57.000 Christ!
02:13:58.000 And he just had this real belief that there was a massive benefit of training in that sort of an environment and then pushing yourself in that really, really hot environment when you were out of there and you left, it would pay dividends.
02:14:12.000 Does that make any sense?
02:14:13.000 Yeah.
02:14:14.000 And do you think that that's what's going on with hot yoga as well?
02:14:17.000 You know, I just got into that over the last three months or so.
02:14:20.000 I love it.
02:14:21.000 It's one of my favorite things to do.
02:14:23.000 I fucking hate it while I'm in there.
02:14:24.000 But when I get out of there, God damn, I feel good.
02:14:27.000 To address your first question, and that has been shown, yes.
02:14:32.000 Training in heat has been shown to have performance enhancements, at least in the studies that I've read with endurance training.
02:14:44.000 And that's partly because there's all these mechanisms that are in play.
02:14:51.000 You're able to increase blood flow to your heart, which then your heart does less work.
02:14:55.000 You're also increasing the heat shock proteins, which then, you know, prevent all the damage, which can then, too much damage can affect your performance.
02:15:02.000 All these things are happening.
02:15:03.000 And the more you do that, so when you train in the heat, it's harder and also those things are getting activated even more.
02:15:09.000 And it's been shown that the next time you train, If it's not in the heat, then you're sweating at a lower body temperature, so your body is cooling down quicker.
02:15:20.000 Those same enhancements with the increased blood flow kick in.
02:15:24.000 You're also able to tolerate exercising harder, which generates this heat and increases your core body temperature.
02:15:31.000 So you're able to tolerate that better as well.
02:15:33.000 I think that makes sense why people in the boxing gyms would do that.
02:15:39.000 It's really only one that I've heard of.
02:15:40.000 I don't know of anybody else who does that, but I would think that if that's the case, like MMA gyms, Jiu Jitsu gyms, all of them should crank the heat way up, right?
02:15:48.000 Yeah, it's also been shown, it's very interesting, it's also been shown that heat stress protects neurons from cell death, like in mice at least, where you, if you put them, if you expose them to heat stress like 24 hours before a traumatic event, where they like puncture the skull,
02:16:05.000 they have much, much less cell death.
02:16:08.000 And again, it's part of that.
02:16:10.000 You're increasing all those stress response mechanisms, and they're active, and they're active for days, days, and days later.
02:16:15.000 So when the next stress comes, your body's like, boom, bring it on.
02:16:19.000 I'm ready to handle it.
02:16:20.000 Let's do this.
02:16:22.000 And so to address your Bikram yoga...
02:16:27.000 I like it as well, by the way.
02:16:30.000 They typically use, I think it's like 100 or so degrees Fahrenheit, right?
02:16:34.000 Something like that.
02:16:35.000 And they increase the humidity depending on where you're at, you know, up to like 40%.
02:16:39.000 And then you're like doing all these poses, so you're exerting yourself.
02:16:43.000 So it's absolutely hard.
02:16:45.000 And you know, your heart rate's going and you're hot.
02:16:48.000 And so all the same mechanisms are kicking in that would kick in when you're sitting in the sauna.
02:16:53.000 That's 170 degrees Fahrenheit, so it's like a dry sauna.
02:16:57.000 But whether or not they're as robust, I don't know.
02:17:01.000 No studies have compared them.
02:17:02.000 I think that there are similar benefits from it, from doing Bikram yoga or from training in heat.
02:17:09.000 I mean, runners do that all the time, bikers as well.
02:17:11.000 I mean, that's part of their training method is to train in heat.
02:17:15.000 Because it also has performance enhancements.
02:17:18.000 They're able to endure longer running periods better than if they didn't train the heat.
02:17:27.000 So I think that's definitely translatable to things like Bikram Yoga.
02:17:31.000 I just did a steam shower this morning and my heart rate was getting up.
02:17:48.000 Yeah.
02:17:48.000 Yeah.
02:17:48.000 Yeah.
02:17:49.000 Yeah.
02:17:59.000 It signals to your brain to make more receptors which bind to beta endorphins and to sensitize them.
02:18:07.000 So you're also releasing beta endorphins when you exercise and when you're in heat or whatever you're doing in the day so you actually feel better.
02:18:16.000 And that's how I actually became very interested in this, Anna, is I was using it in graduate school.
02:18:20.000 I started using it and I started to notice that I felt really, really good.
02:18:25.000 Like if I used it in the morning and I went into the lab, I was just like, I felt really good.
02:18:30.000 I could handle all the stress.
02:18:31.000 I could handle people putting more work on me.
02:18:33.000 I could handle all the crap and just, you know, stuff that would really irritate me, usually.
02:18:38.000 I was more able to just deal with it.
02:18:41.000 And so that's when I became real.
02:18:42.000 I'm like, something's going on here.
02:18:43.000 And I became very interested in the brain effects and the hormonal effects with the sauna.
02:18:48.000 So it was just your own anecdotal experience.
02:18:49.000 You just needed to try to figure out what the mechanism was?
02:18:53.000 That's what sparked my interest, was my own anecdotal evidence, yeah.
02:18:57.000 And also, I noticed when I was injured I would go into the sauna and doing this, and also Dan noticed this as well, I lost less muscle mass.
02:19:08.000 Usually if I'm injured and I can't work out, first of all, I'd go crazy.
02:19:12.000 And so that helped me not go crazy because of the endorphins.
02:19:14.000 And two, I lost less muscle mass.
02:19:17.000 Usually if I don't work out, I will start to lose muscle quick.
02:19:21.000 So I would think that would be a big benefit to people that are going through surgery maybe to repair something, like knee surgery or something along those lines?
02:19:28.000 The only caveat is, and my concern is that because it is a stress, If you already, like, are you stressing your body and then another stress, like, I don't know, surgery seems like it's pretty stressful.
02:19:42.000 Sometimes the two stresses together can be bad.
02:19:45.000 So I was talking about it protecting against, you know, cell death with traumatic brain injury.
02:19:49.000 Well, that was when it was done before, 24 hours before the traumatic injury.
02:19:53.000 If you have a traumatic brain injury and then you get into the sauna, you're going to cause more cell death.
02:19:57.000 You're going to do more damage.
02:19:59.000 So it's...
02:20:00.000 I'm a little hesitant about saying, oh yeah, just apply it to any recovery.
02:20:06.000 Possibly, it depends on the amount of damage that was done during the surgery.
02:20:11.000 The amount of time from the surgery?
02:20:13.000 Yeah, the amount of time out from the surgery, exactly.
02:20:15.000 Maybe someone should wait a couple months before they get into a surgery?
02:20:18.000 I definitely would.
02:20:19.000 A couple of months would be, I think, plenty of time to wait.
02:20:21.000 What about cold therapy?
02:20:23.000 What about either cold water immersion or cryotherapy post any sort of an injury?
02:20:29.000 Now that's actually good.
02:20:34.000 Obviously, you want some sort of inflammatory mechanisms to help with repairing the damage.
02:20:44.000 Because that activates all the anti-inflammatory ones.
02:20:46.000 We're talking about that.
02:20:48.000 But people do use cold.
02:20:50.000 Cold therapy has been used to help with at least damage to the brain.
02:20:54.000 That's been shown.
02:20:54.000 That's pretty standard that it's used to help with ischemic stroke, traumatic brain injury also.
02:21:02.000 Whether or not you should use it right after an injury.
02:21:04.000 I think if your immune system is going out of control, it seemed like it would be good.
02:21:11.000 And like I said, it's been shown to help with people that are prone to overtraining.
02:21:20.000 I don't know.
02:21:20.000 I think it's hard to say it'll help everyone.
02:21:23.000 I think it depends on a lot of other factors as well, like how injured you are.
02:21:29.000 Are you just continually producing these pro-inflammatory cytokines or is it kind of out of control?
02:21:35.000 Do we need to stop that?
02:21:38.000 So there's a lot of factors.
02:21:39.000 Yeah.
02:21:40.000 I mean, that's in my mind.
02:21:42.000 And I'm not an expert on that.
02:21:43.000 So, you know, maybe someone else that spent a lot of time doing research on that would know.
02:21:47.000 We need you to know.
02:21:49.000 We don't have time.
02:21:50.000 There's no time to learn all this.
02:21:53.000 Another thing that I saw you tweet about that I've been really fascinated about, especially because...
02:21:59.000 There's been some concern that they're actually doing this to people now is myostatin inhibitors.
02:22:05.000 You tweeted about these myostatin-inhibited pigs What are they doing?
02:22:12.000 Like, what are they doing?
02:22:13.000 I know that this is a natural occurrence in Whippets.
02:22:16.000 There's a dog, and sometimes when they breed them, this happens.
02:22:21.000 This gene gets fucked up, and they develop these Hulk dogs.
02:22:25.000 And if you haven't seen them before, folks, Google it, and I swear to God you'll think you're being photoshopped.
02:22:30.000 You think someone's joking.
02:22:31.000 Because these dogs are insane.
02:22:33.000 They're dogs with, like...
02:22:35.000 Double, triple the amount of muscle that a normal dog would normally have.
02:22:38.000 Like, there's one right there.
02:22:39.000 Like, come on, that just does not look real.
02:22:42.000 But it is absolutely real.
02:22:44.000 And that is all because of just a gene variance, right?
02:22:49.000 Yeah.
02:22:49.000 And these random mutations also occur in people, dogs.
02:22:54.000 So the random mutation does occur.
02:22:57.000 In fact, you're the first one that brought myostatin to my attention.
02:23:00.000 I remember the first time I came on the podcast, I was like, what is myostatin?
02:23:05.000 Since then, it's been on my radar and it's come up in a few other studies.
02:23:11.000 Myostatin inhibits muscle growth.
02:23:15.000 If you inhibit myostatin, you get rid of that negative inhibitor that's inhibiting muscle from growing.
02:23:21.000 What's really interesting is that in mice, when they do this, when they inhibit myostatin, it's been shown to actually increase longevity.
02:23:29.000 These mice live longer.
02:23:32.000 It's really fascinating.
02:23:34.000 They're posing in front of the mirror all the time.
02:23:36.000 Yeah, but now, you know, now this engineering technology is getting better and better.
02:23:41.000 And so that's what they've been using with the pigs that I tweeted about, where they're now able to specifically take a gene and say, okay, I want to take this gene and I want to, like...
02:23:57.000 Either turn it into another, you know, I want to put a mutation in it that either makes it not active or I want to change it to make it better, things like that.
02:24:04.000 And so we have this new system we can do that called CRISPR. The one that was used in that study actually was another one called Talon, which is very similar.
02:24:11.000 But basically what happens is that they take these proteins that are able to, like, recognize a certain sequence.
02:24:17.000 And when you have a certain gene with it, it'll recognize that sequence when you stick it into the cell.
02:24:23.000 And it'll cut out the gene and then replace it with whatever you give it.
02:24:26.000 So it replaces it with, let's say, a non-active myostatin.
02:24:29.000 So now you take a pig, for example, that has normal myostatin, and then you, you know, give it this technology that can kind of cut out the gene and then put it with a non-active.
02:24:40.000 So now you've got, you know, myostatin that's not working.
02:24:44.000 So it's like constantly inhibited, which means now these muscles are just growing like out of control.
02:24:49.000 And they can do this with a pig that's already adult?
02:24:52.000 That's a little different.
02:24:54.000 They're doing it with embryos.
02:24:58.000 If you do it with an adult, it's a little different because you have to get it to the right tissue.
02:25:05.000 It complicates things more.
02:25:08.000 The technology is getting better and better, but you have to give it a targeting sequence and say, okay, go to the liver.
02:25:14.000 Go to the heart, you know, go to the kidneys, like whatever organ we're talking about, and then once it goes there, then it finds that gene, like, and cuts it out, and then, you know, can replace it with whatever you give it.
02:25:26.000 I mean, this has implications for, you know, genetic disorders like sickle cell anemia, things like that, where you're like, okay, we know what the screwed up gene is, and we know what the good one is.
02:25:37.000 Let's give it the good one, send it there, cut out the screwed up one in blood cells, and then You know, give it this good one.
02:25:43.000 And that's actually being done.
02:25:45.000 In blood cells it's the easiest because you can take blood out and you can change things and then you can transplant it back in.
02:25:51.000 And they're doing this now with actually, they're genetically engineering cancer cells, I'm sorry, immune cells to have a protein that's able to recognize a cancer cell and kill it.
02:26:03.000 So they're taking people that have cancer, they're taking out their immune, well this is clinical trials, but They're going to take out their immune cells and then they're going to genetically engineer them with this new system to make a protein that they don't normally make that can recognize a cancer cell and then kill it.
02:26:19.000 They're going to transplant it back into the person and see if it works.
02:26:22.000 It's been shown to work in mice, so the next step is seeing if it works in humans.
02:26:26.000 With the myostatin thing, it's interesting.
02:26:30.000 Doing this in humans, there's going to be all sorts of FDA regulations and all that stuff that you have to get by.
02:26:35.000 China's already doing it, of course.
02:26:37.000 They're already experimenting with human embryos.
02:26:39.000 They've already published a paper.
02:26:41.000 They're experimenting with human embryos that they actually bring to birth?
02:26:48.000 So they're experimenting with in vitro fertilized embryos that failed.
02:26:53.000 So they were going to throw them out anyways, like at a stage before they were the embryo.
02:27:00.000 It's like it's a blastocyst.
02:27:01.000 And so they're taking this cell that's going to become an embryo and they were trying to change a certain gene.
02:27:08.000 And I think it was for sickle cell.
02:27:12.000 And what they found was that when they were doing this, so they were taking this blastocyst that's going to be an embryo, and they cut out the sickle cell gene and were trying to replace it with another one, they found that it caused all sorts of mutations in other genes.
02:27:27.000 So it was clearly stuff going on we don't understand.
02:27:33.000 I think, you know, things are getting better and better and as more scientists are researching this and figuring out what's going on, why it's causing, you know, these random mutations, then we'll start to have new technology and eventually it will be able to be done.
02:27:45.000 Eventually we'll be able to do that.
02:27:47.000 There's an excellent Radiolab podcast, rather, on this very method called CRISPR and have you heard that one?
02:27:56.000 Yeah, actually someone tweeted it at me and because I've been Crazy about CRISPR for a while and someone tweeted at me and I heard part of it.
02:28:04.000 It's amazing.
02:28:04.000 They did a really good job of explaining it for the layman, too.
02:28:07.000 Right.
02:28:07.000 So you're familiar with CRISPR? Yes.
02:28:10.000 Yeah, because I'm a huge Radiolab fan.
02:28:12.000 I listen to that all the time.
02:28:13.000 Yeah.
02:28:14.000 So explain to people what CRISPR is and how it was developed and how they figured out how to manipulate genes with this.
02:28:22.000 Yeah, so that's, I mean, I can try to explain that.
02:28:26.000 Just enough to get them to listen to the Radiolab one.
02:28:29.000 Yeah, so basically, they found it in bacteria.
02:28:31.000 And, you know, in bacteria, what they found was that there's these certain sequences of DNA that were, like, it had a certain repetitive sequence to it, so it had a certain, like, you know, code.
02:28:44.000 But it wasn't the bacterial DNA. They found it was actually, like, DNA sequences that were similar to viral.
02:28:50.000 It was actually viral DNA. And so they were like, well, what is viral DNA doing in this bacterial sequence?
02:28:57.000 And it turns out one of the scientists had hypothesized the reason it was there was because it was a response to be able to fight off the virus.
02:29:05.000 So they had these, you know, certain sequences like a viral DNA that could then recognize a virus and then create antibodies and things against it to Fight off the viral.
02:29:15.000 So they had like captured a sequence of this virus.
02:29:18.000 The virus has actually infected the DNA, I think.
02:29:20.000 That's the idea.
02:29:24.000 But what's really interesting is that these sequences are conserved.
02:29:29.000 There's a certain protein that we all make in our cells that recognize these sequences.
02:29:33.000 And that protein is like, it's a caspase-9.
02:29:36.000 So it's basically something that's evolutionarily conserved from bacteria to viruses to humans, mice, and we all like have a certain form of it.
02:29:46.000 So I think that was kind of how it was discovered.
02:29:48.000 And what happens when this caspase recognizes it is it like cleaves, it like cuts.
02:29:53.000 So this woman at UC Berkeley, which is kind of down the street from me, she's a scientist, she thought of this brilliant way to harness that system and use it as a technology to be able to genetically engineer things with more precision.
02:30:09.000 So it used to be like, and when I did a lot of research, I mean, when I was doing a lot of research with, you know, making a mouse have a certain gene that it doesn't usually have, the way we would do it was we'd blast this, you know, mouse with virus that basically...
02:30:24.000 It brings the gene into the cell, but it goes like anywhere.
02:30:27.000 It randomly just goes into a piece of the chromosome.
02:30:29.000 So it doesn't go exactly where the gene is supposed to go.
02:30:32.000 So this technology now is able to recognize these little patterns, cut out, you know, where that gene is usually and put in a new one.
02:30:41.000 And so it's very precise as opposed to, we're going to blast the cell with this gene and we're going to give more of it and it's going to be, we don't know where it's going to be, where it's going to be incorporated into the genome.
02:30:50.000 It's just going to be there and it's So there's all sorts of other side effects that could happen.
02:30:55.000 If you're trying to study the effect of what having more of a certain gene does, you may be studying in addition to what more of that gene does, you may be also looking at it changing other things that are going on because it's being expressed in certain places it's not.
02:31:11.000 So things like that.
02:31:13.000 So it's really like a more precise way to genetically engineer things.
02:31:16.000 And this is going to be used for a lot of things.
02:31:19.000 And how long ago did she develop this?
02:31:21.000 A couple years ago.
02:31:22.000 I think it was like 2012. The first publication was 2012. Maybe that's what the Mayans were talking about.
02:31:28.000 December 21st, 2012 being the end of the world.
02:31:31.000 Maybe it just takes a long time.
02:31:32.000 Oh, was it 2012 that they predicted?
02:31:33.000 Yeah, that's what they thought.
02:31:34.000 Well, not really.
02:31:35.000 It was just the end of the long count of their calendar.
02:31:37.000 And just the really Looney Tunes people decided it was the end of the world.
02:31:41.000 Because it's fun.
02:31:42.000 It's fun to think.
02:31:43.000 What's interesting to think is what it will happen with CRISPR if we do start genetically engineering.
02:31:48.000 Well, also interesting to think what's going to happen next.
02:31:50.000 If they just developed CRISPR three years ago, what's the three year from now thing that they're going to come up with?
02:31:55.000 Because it seems like this stuff increases exponentially and that each individual discovery and innovation gives birth to all these new improvements and other new ones that weren't possible without that.
02:32:07.000 So what CRISPR gives birth to.
02:32:10.000 What comes out of that is going to be really kind of crazy.
02:32:12.000 What I see coming out soon is that we'll be able to take stem cells and then make the stem cell have a certain...
02:32:23.000 For example, I've got a form of the ApoE gene that is very, very associated with Alzheimer's.
02:32:31.000 And it's just a sequence of DNA that's a little different than someone that doesn't have this variant, but it really increases my risk for Alzheimer's.
02:32:39.000 So you take, you know, these stem cells, and then you say, I don't want that person, I want to get rid of that ApoE4, and I want to give it another sequence where it's like the ApoE3 version.
02:32:49.000 So just change the sequence of the DNA a little bit.
02:32:51.000 And then transplant it back into the person.
02:32:53.000 Or you do that with Parkinson's disease.
02:32:55.000 These people have, some of them have something called alpha-signuclein, where they're, you know, it's basically producing this out of control and it causes aggregates to form and that leads to cell death.
02:33:06.000 So then you take the stem cells and you make it so that they don't have that form and you give them the right form and then transplant it back in.
02:33:13.000 And we're now able to make stem cells from any cell, which is really, really cool.
02:33:18.000 So the fact that we can take our skin cells and basically give them the right signals, the right cytokines, the right environment to say, here, I want you to become a neuron.
02:33:28.000 I know right now you're a skin cell, but I'm going to give you all these other things that usually happen in the brain and I'm going to make you become a neuron.
02:33:35.000 So then we'll be able to take a person's own skin cell, make it into a dopaminergic neuron, for example.
02:33:42.000 Once we figure out exactly what the right cocktail is, so there's a certain environment around these cells in your brain, and that environment is what causes them to become a dopaminergic neuron, for example.
02:33:54.000 And then they're going to figure that out, and then take the skin cell, make it become a dopaminergic neuron, and then transplant it back into someone that has Parkinson's.
02:34:04.000 I got a stem cell injection recently in my shoulder from women's placenta.
02:34:11.000 I have some small tears on my labrum and a small tear on my rotator cuff.
02:34:22.000 Apparently my shoulder has been dislocated and I didn't know.
02:34:26.000 And there's been some damage.
02:34:28.000 I knew that my shoulder was it bugged me when I exercised a lot but not enough that I thought it was anything like really wrong with it until I wound up getting an MRI and there's like you got a bunch of tears in there and they were saying you might have to get shoulder surgery eventually but let's just see what we can do here and so I'd gone through a round of Regenikine,
02:34:52.000 which helped a lot, reduced inflammation, made it feel a lot better.
02:34:55.000 But this stem cell shot, I just got it.
02:34:59.000 You can still see some of the bruising.
02:35:02.000 Like see here, which is actually blood not from here, but from up here where they shot it and it was fucking really painful It was a big-ass needle and they just shoved it right into the tendon and right into the the area where there's damage And they said well, let's take a look at this in six weeks We're not exactly sure what's gonna happen and we're not exactly sure.
02:35:20.000 We're not exactly sure how it works.
02:35:22.000 So good luck So, a couple of questions for you.
02:35:27.000 For one, a colleague of mine that I work with at Children's Hospital in Oakland, he actually published a paper where he was the one that discovered that the placenta was a very rich source of stem cells,
02:35:43.000 much, much more than like the umbilical cord.
02:35:45.000 And it's also these placental stem cells They're able to form almost every cell type in the body.
02:35:54.000 So not only can they form blood cells, hematopoietic cells, but they can form neurons.
02:36:01.000 They can form other cell types in the body, liver cells, heart muscle.
02:36:05.000 I think he published quite a few different cell types.
02:36:10.000 But this is not being used very frequently.
02:36:14.000 I mean, there are some people that are banking their placenta.
02:36:17.000 And, like, I wasn't aware.
02:36:20.000 I know there's maybe one company or two companies that are banking the placenta, but I wasn't aware of anyone that is, like, allowing you to use someone else's placenta.
02:36:28.000 So you have to find a match.
02:36:30.000 Like, so you just...
02:36:31.000 What company...
02:36:33.000 It's in Vegas.
02:36:34.000 I'll give you all the information once I'm off the air.
02:36:37.000 I don't have it on me.
02:36:38.000 I'll have to search for it.
02:36:39.000 I mean, that's super, super cool of me and exciting because I actually did a podcast on this where I interviewed Franz Kuyper.
02:36:50.000 And, you know, he was talking all about how he made the discovery and how, you know, how he wants to have these huge, you know, like we have blood banks where people bank their blood and so that you can like, you know, if you need blood transfusion, you find a donor that matches.
02:37:03.000 Well, he wants to have these placenta banks where, you know, people just throw the placenta out.
02:37:08.000 And, you know, that's a huge, like, source of stem cells.
02:37:11.000 So, you know, that's a big waste.
02:37:14.000 You're talking about being able to tune people up for injuries or for neurogenic diseases, for most, I mean, anything.
02:37:21.000 Well, Dr. Davidson, who's one of the doctors that works for the UFC, he had shoulder surgery and was still having some pretty significant issues after surgery.
02:37:30.000 It was just really painful, and he had bone-on-bone arthritis, and was just really sore.
02:37:35.000 Got a stem cell injection, and he said literally within less than two months he was healed.
02:37:41.000 Wow.
02:37:41.000 Yeah, he said his arm feels amazing now.
02:37:43.000 No pain at all.
02:37:44.000 I mean, I think depending on...
02:37:45.000 So there's lots of techniques that are around in terms of how you preserve the placenta source.
02:37:52.000 So it's best to preserve the whole tissue.
02:37:55.000 You don't want to isolate the stem cells from the placenta and then freeze the stem cells because they're going to be more likely to die and less likely to be able to form whatever cell they need to when you thaw them.
02:38:07.000 So I think that...
02:38:08.000 At least Franz was telling me there's a certain procedure that's really important you follow.
02:38:12.000 So depending on who's doing this, what company, you know, you may find a lot of variation in terms of the efficacy of, you know, the stem cell injection from one versus another because the viability of the stem cells, you know, also, you know, what you're doing is putting the stem cell that basically is unprogrammed so it doesn't have a program yet.
02:38:32.000 What I mean by that is the program happens With the environment that it's in.
02:38:37.000 And so different cytokines that are present in your shoulder or your connective tissue are different from the environment that's in your brain.
02:38:44.000 So that certain microenvironment then gives it signals to become whatever, connective tissue or whatever it is.
02:38:51.000 So they just injected the stem cell, like the placental stem cell.
02:38:58.000 Right in there.
02:38:58.000 Takes 10 seconds.
02:39:00.000 It's crazy.
02:39:01.000 Hurts like hell, but I gotta tell you, it's hard to figure out what's going on, again, because I do so many different things between the Regenikine and this, but my shoulder feels great.
02:39:10.000 I mean, it worked out today.
02:39:11.000 No pain at all.
02:39:12.000 I did kickboxing, so I was using it a lot.
02:39:15.000 It seems to still have issues when I press, so I'm avoiding, like, Overhead pressing and bench pressing and things along those lines.
02:39:23.000 I might eventually have to get it fixed because there is a tear in the labrum and I have a feeling this tear is like years old.
02:39:30.000 One of the problems with jujitsu is that you learn to ignore joint pain.
02:39:35.000 You just learn to sort of ignore it because everything's always hurting.
02:39:38.000 Your elbows hurt, your wrists hurt, your knees hurt, everything hurts.
02:39:41.000 Because the whole goal of the art of jujitsu is to damage joints.
02:39:46.000 So you're constantly tapping or avoiding being tapped and when you're avoiding being tapped sometimes you probably really should just tap you know meaning you give up because you're you're stressing your joint like sometimes you'll get caught in what's called an Americana where your arm gets pinned down like that and then they torque it like this and it's a lot of pressure on your shoulder or Kimura which is like the other way and it's a lot of pressure on your shoulder That's probably happened to me hundreds of times.
02:40:15.000 I just don't even know how many times it's happened because I've been doing jiu-jitsu since 1996. So it's just all those years of getting yanked on.
02:40:23.000 Like, who knows what the fuck's going on in there.
02:40:25.000 But, um...
02:40:27.000 Just having those shots, just having that one shot and the Regenikine shots as well, made a big difference in the way it feels.
02:40:33.000 It feels great.
02:40:34.000 That's really cool.
02:40:34.000 It's still clicking and stuff.
02:40:35.000 It makes some weird noises.
02:40:36.000 You also take omega-3 fatty acids, right?
02:40:38.000 Oh, yeah.
02:40:38.000 A lot of that.
02:40:39.000 That helps.
02:40:40.000 Sure.
02:40:40.000 Yeah.
02:40:41.000 Vitamin D seems to help, too.
02:40:42.000 Whenever I have anything injury or...
02:40:44.000 And vitamin D seems to have some sort of an effect on how I recover, too.
02:40:48.000 Yeah, I mean it activates a lot of genes that are involved in wound healing and recovery, repairing things.
02:40:55.000 You just wrote a paper on vitamin D and what was it?
02:40:58.000 Yeah, so I just had a paper published last February on how important vitamin D and the marine omega-3 fatty acids EPA and DHR are in brain health and specifically in Preventing and modifying the severity of neuropsychiatric disorders like schizophrenia,
02:41:21.000 ADHD, autism, and impulsive behavior.
02:41:26.000 Impulsive behavior?
02:41:27.000 Yes.
02:41:28.000 Really?
02:41:28.000 Very, very important and impulsive.
02:41:30.000 In fact, that's one of the main things that vitamin D and omega-3 are important for, and that's through the serotonin pathway.
02:41:39.000 Wow, so maybe perhaps that could be used to help people with gambling disorders, or maybe people that...
02:41:46.000 Risky behavior, alcoholism...
02:41:48.000 Impulsive behavior...
02:41:48.000 Gambling, I don't know how much of it's impulsive versus addiction.
02:41:51.000 There's probably some overlap, and dopamine plays a role in that.
02:41:55.000 But, you know, serotonin does affect dopamine as well.
02:41:59.000 What about, like, sexual addictions and things like that?
02:42:01.000 Isn't that, like, a lot of it's impulse control?
02:42:03.000 I've seen studies with serotonin.
02:42:06.000 So, specifically the paper...
02:42:09.000 It's talking about the role of these micronutrients in the serotonin pathway because vitamin D increases the gene or activates the gene that converts tryptophan into serotonin.
02:42:20.000 And omega-3 fatty acids, they prevent the inflammatory molecules that are made called E2-series prostaglandins, which are generated by inflammation, stress, things like that, generate those that get into the brain and they stop serotonin from being released.
02:42:39.000 And also the omega-3s affect the serotonin receptor function.
02:42:43.000 So the vitamin D and omega-3s are affecting pretty much every part of the serotonin pathway.
02:42:49.000 And the serotonin is very important for executive function and for impulsive behavior.
02:42:56.000 When they deplete people of serotonin by depleting tryptophan, So they basically suck away all their tryptophan from getting into their brain by giving them this branch chain amino acids, which out-compete tryptophan from getting into the brain.
02:43:09.000 People become extremely impulsive.
02:43:13.000 Like running red lights?
02:43:14.000 Like taking gambles?
02:43:16.000 Like what are they trying to do?
02:43:17.000 Yeah, they do certain tests for impulsive behavior.
02:43:20.000 And people just like, instead of...
02:43:23.000 Just thinking, like stopping and thinking about the decision they're going to make, like what the long-term effects are.
02:43:29.000 They just do.
02:43:30.000 Do, do, do, do.
02:43:31.000 So they just, you know, go.
02:43:32.000 That's fascinating because I've found that in my life when I've made the most impulsive like errors, it's to be when I'm exhausted.
02:43:39.000 When I work too hard, like working too hard for me, doing too much seems to correspond with either irresponsible or impulsive behavior.
02:43:49.000 That makes sense.
02:43:50.000 Like food, like eating shitty food when I'm exhausted.
02:43:53.000 Yep.
02:43:53.000 That actually makes sense for multiple reasons, but also when you're exhausted, meaning you're kind of overstressed, you've stressed yourself a lot, you actually...
02:44:04.000 Yeah.
02:44:25.000 And then there's also studies that have shown that when you overwork yourself, if you're not sleeping, that affects the addictive mechanisms in the brain and addictive behavior.
02:44:36.000 And I don't remember exactly how because it's been a while since I read that study.
02:44:39.000 But I do remember that not getting enough sleep, which I think would happen when you're overworking yourself as well, something's happening in the brain where you're more likely to engage in addictive type of behavior or bad behaviors, I guess.
02:44:56.000 But yeah, serotonin totally regulates the impulsive behavior.
02:44:59.000 And the thing that I was talking about in this paper was the interaction between people that have variations in genes that are related to serotonin.
02:45:08.000 For example, the serotonin transporter, which is what metabolizes serotonin after it's been released.
02:45:14.000 And people that have these variations They basically make serotonin get metabolized quicker.
02:45:22.000 So you release it, boom.
02:45:23.000 It's like before it can do its function, it's getting metabolized.
02:45:26.000 So it's like a vacuum, just getting sucked up.
02:45:28.000 And those people are prone to depression, impulsive behavior, things like that.
02:45:32.000 And my mom has that variation.
02:45:33.000 And I looked at her genes and she's very prone to impulsive behavior and depression.
02:45:38.000 And so the point that I tried to drive home in that paper Was that people that have these gene polymorphisms where their serotonin pathway isn't working as good as it could or should, those people are the most prone to vitamin D and omega-3 deficiencies because those micronutrients are important for various parts of the serotonin pathway that I just explained.
02:46:05.000 They're the people that actually need to get the vitamin D and omega-3 the most.
02:46:09.000 And in fact, it turns out that most of the time, those are the people that are most deficient as well.
02:46:13.000 So, you know, I think that people that supplement with vitamin D and omega-3 can modulate the severity of some of this impulsive behavior or Some of this depression or, you know, other things that are as a consequence of having low serotonin.
02:46:30.000 I think that tuning up your vitamin D and omega-3, and that's been shown in clinical studies, like the mechanism for why isn't really known.
02:46:38.000 And I think it's through the serotonin pathway, but kids that are taking omega-3 supplements, ranging from one gram a day to three grams a day, that have ADHD, their symptoms are improved, or depression, or schizophrenia,
02:46:56.000 these things have all been shown to help with symptoms of these disorders.
02:46:59.000 And vitamin D has been shown as well.
02:47:01.000 And so I think there's a lot of overlap between these two, and I think they both would be good, both vitamin D and omega-3.
02:47:08.000 So that's, and I've gotten people that have emailed me and told me that that's helped with their depression and, you know, things like that.
02:47:15.000 And you never know, it could be a placebo effect, but there are studies showing that it does improve those functions, impulsive behavior, depression, things like that.
02:47:25.000 So there.
02:47:28.000 So there.
02:47:30.000 Amazing.
02:47:30.000 Another awesome podcast, Rhonda.
02:47:32.000 You're incredible.
02:47:33.000 Too much information.
02:47:34.000 Nobody's going to remember it all.
02:47:36.000 So go over it again.
02:47:37.000 Read it.
02:47:38.000 Get a notebook.
02:47:39.000 Write shit down.
02:47:40.000 Thank you so much.
02:47:41.000 You're awesome.
02:47:42.000 Thanks for having me, Joe.
02:47:43.000 I really, really appreciate it.
02:47:44.000 And your website, your podcast, your Twitter handle.
02:47:49.000 Give out all the information, please, to everybody.
02:47:51.000 Yeah, great.
02:47:52.000 So I'm just actually trying to get more podcasts out.
02:47:55.000 I just filmed one with New York Times bestselling author Tim Ferriss.
02:47:59.000 So check it out.
02:48:00.000 It's awesome.
02:48:00.000 We geek out on that.
02:48:01.000 I also am trying to do this more often.
02:48:04.000 So I'm trying to basically boost up my crowdfunding, which is helping me do this.
02:48:08.000 And I'm really thankful to everyone that's helped and also to you for helping me get the exposure.
02:48:13.000 You can find out about that on foundmyfitness.com.
02:48:16.000 You can also find out about my...
02:48:18.000 There's a podcast there, foundmyfitness.com, as well as that genetics tool I was talking about.
02:48:24.000 So foundmyfitness.com has all that information.
02:48:26.000 Super, super happy to be here, and thanks for having me again, Joe.
02:48:30.000 Foundmyfitness on Twitter as well.
02:48:32.000 Thank you.
02:48:33.000 Listen, these podcasts are awesome for me.
02:48:35.000 I learned so much, and I really, really appreciate you.
02:48:37.000 So thank you very much.
02:48:38.000 All right, friends, we'll be back tomorrow with Nick DiPaolo.
02:48:41.000 All right, see you then.
02:48:42.000 Bye-bye.
02:48:43.000 Big kiss.
02:48:54.000 Thank you.