The Joe Rogan Experience


Joe Rogan Experience #773 - Dr. Rhonda Patrick


Summary

In this episode, we talk about how music plays a major role in our brain and how it can affect the way we think and feel. Music can actually have a direct effect on the way our brain functions. We also talk about the link between music and stress and the effect it can have on the brain. Music plays a key role in helping our brain function better, and can have a major effect on how we think, feel, and move around in our bodies. Music is a powerful tool that can be used in a variety of ways to improve your brain function and improve your overall well-being! We hope you enjoy this episode and that it makes you think about how important it is to listen to music to keep your brain healthy and well-functioning! Enjoy and spread the word to your friends and family about this episode to help them get the most out of their day to day life! xoxo, Dr. Rhonda Patrick Dr. Patrick: and Dan: . and Dr. Rachael: , & Dr. Kelly: This episode was brought to you by a request from a listener named Dr. Phyllis Patrick. Thanks for listening and supporting this podcast! Thank you so much for being a part of the podcast and supporting the podcast. , and thank you for sharing it with your friends, family, friends, and the podcast community! and your support. Love ya'll! - Rhonda and Dan - (Thank you, Rhonda & Dan. - Thank you for listening to this podcast, and we appreciate it, and for supporting us, and supporting us with your support, and all the support we can do this podcast. We are so much, we really helps us grow and support us, we appreciate you, we are grateful, we re doing this, we love you, and so much more! Love you, thank you, Thank you, you are amazing, and keep us back, and back, you're amazing, we'll keep on giving us more of this podcasting, we're gonna keep on coming, more of you, more and more, we see you, thanks, we will keep on, we won't stop, we keep on listening, we get more of it, we know you, THANK YOU, we LOVE YOU, WE'LL keep you, WE LOVE YOU. XOXO, MRS. Thank you.


Transcript

00:00:13.000 By request of Dr. Rhonda Patrick.
00:00:16.000 You wanted to have that music, so there you go.
00:00:17.000 Now, that's how we do it.
00:00:19.000 I appreciate it.
00:00:20.000 How about that?
00:00:21.000 Because of you, we'll do it from here on out.
00:00:23.000 Music's kind of like, you know, there's something about it that just makes you feel good.
00:00:26.000 It gets a little dopamine or something.
00:00:28.000 A little something.
00:00:29.000 Something.
00:00:29.000 Has there ever been a study on what exactly music does to the mind?
00:00:33.000 Like an inspirational song when you're on a treadmill that makes you keep going?
00:00:36.000 Doesn't it though?
00:00:37.000 Yeah.
00:00:37.000 Oh man, it makes all the difference for me.
00:00:39.000 Yeah.
00:00:40.000 All the difference.
00:00:40.000 I don't know.
00:00:41.000 I don't know if they've done that exact study, but I'm sure there's been studies that have been done looking at how music affects the brain.
00:00:47.000 Yeah.
00:00:48.000 I just don't know.
00:00:49.000 Yeah.
00:00:50.000 There's something going on.
00:00:51.000 It's 100%, right?
00:00:53.000 I mean, a song, it has to work with you.
00:00:56.000 Oh, yeah.
00:00:57.000 What if it's a song, what's your song, like Flashdance?
00:01:02.000 That's good.
00:01:02.000 I really like jamming out to the Stones.
00:01:05.000 I really like the Rolling Stones.
00:01:06.000 Yeah.
00:01:07.000 And I also like it when it's like, you know, maybe some ACDC, like, I need some motivation to push past that.
00:01:15.000 Yeah, that's what I listened to in the cryogenic chamber.
00:01:18.000 I listened to Back in Black.
00:01:23.000 Because it just seems like a good song for that.
00:01:24.000 Dude, this morning, after I did a workout, I did a cold shower.
00:01:30.000 Um, and I was, like, singing in the cold shower because it was so cold.
00:01:34.000 But it was, like, me singing, and I was like, yeah, I know what happened after, and my brain loves it.
00:01:38.000 Woo!
00:01:39.000 Yeah, yeah!
00:01:40.000 And, like, Dan was, like, trying to record it for, not, like, video, but, like, audio.
00:01:45.000 He was, like, trying to record it for Snapchat, but he failed miserably.
00:01:48.000 And, um, but I stayed in for five minutes, and the singing was like, yeah, it helped me push past that.
00:01:53.000 This is cold as fuck!
00:01:56.000 So you did it just for the norepinephrine?
00:01:58.000 Did I say that right?
00:02:00.000 Yes, you did.
00:02:01.000 Thank you.
00:02:01.000 I did.
00:02:02.000 I did that, plus I tried doing high-intensity workouts, so I was trying to sprint faster than I usually do.
00:02:10.000 So I like to do a lot of aerobic.
00:02:12.000 I do aerobic, and I like to mix it up with some resistance training for different reasons.
00:02:16.000 In the same day?
00:02:17.000 I usually do mix it up, but not always.
00:02:20.000 It depends.
00:02:22.000 It depends.
00:02:24.000 Sometimes I'll start off with a run, and I don't do long, long runs.
00:02:29.000 It's like two miles.
00:02:30.000 Enough to get some brain-derived neurotrophic factor growing, which is a growth factor that helps you grow new neurons.
00:02:37.000 That's been shown to happen with...
00:02:40.000 It's more of an aerobic type of exercise.
00:02:42.000 But then the high-intensity interval training, like sprinting, or I'll do body weight squats, or I'll do push-ups, or these backward types of push-ups, whatever is going to get me doing that high-intensity sort of thing where you're actually producing lactate because your body is using glucose Since you can't get oxygen to your muscles quick enough for how quick you're applying force and putting this energetic demand,
00:03:12.000 you use glucose and you don't use it inside the mitochondria, meaning you don't need oxygen.
00:03:17.000 So you do it without oxygen and you make lactate as a byproduct.
00:03:20.000 Well, lactate's been shown to increase dramatically.
00:03:24.000 Lactate uptake into the brain increases dramatically.
00:03:28.000 Yeah.
00:03:48.000 Wow.
00:04:06.000 Those effects will come two weeks from now when I have more neurons.
00:04:10.000 So the immediate effect of the lactate and making more neoprenephrine is happening right now because right now the connections between my neurons are stronger.
00:04:19.000 Plus it also makes you feel good.
00:04:22.000 That's crazy that there's a physical effect.
00:04:25.000 There's a physical effect of your brain actually functioning better.
00:04:29.000 There's a direct mechanism involved in your brain functioning better because of exercise.
00:04:35.000 I have been so obsessed with this lately.
00:04:39.000 I know that we've talked about this before.
00:04:43.000 People probably get sick of me talking about it.
00:04:45.000 This concept of stressing your body.
00:04:50.000 Most people think exercise is good because the exercise itself is good.
00:04:54.000 No, the exercise itself is not good.
00:04:57.000 It's actually very stressful on your body.
00:05:00.000 What's good is the stress response.
00:05:03.000 We've got a hardwired genetic program that is conserved in plants, insects, bacteria.
00:05:12.000 You know, primates, humans, we all have this response to stress.
00:05:19.000 And that response is to try to survive.
00:05:21.000 I need to stay alive, pass on my genes.
00:05:25.000 Obviously, the stress response is much stronger when you're younger or earlier in life because your body knows you're not old enough to reproduce for whatever hormones and things like that that are not being produced.
00:05:40.000 So the stress response, which is like exercise causes stress, thermal stress, like heat, cold.
00:05:47.000 And then there's all these like compounds in plants that are...
00:05:51.000 Stressful to us that can induce this.
00:05:52.000 But it's almost like the brain is preparing for the next time it's going to encounter stress.
00:05:58.000 It's like, okay, this is war.
00:06:00.000 I got to gather up the troops.
00:06:01.000 I got to get this army.
00:06:02.000 We got to assemble this army because that stress is going to happen again.
00:06:05.000 I got to be ready for war.
00:06:06.000 So it kind of makes sense that you're going to have a very profound and positive effect in your brain and also in other parts of the body.
00:06:15.000 You know, the exercise itself...
00:06:18.000 It's funny because a lot of people do it to lose weight or mostly to lose weight or become sexually attractive, muscle mass, which has other very important physiological effects.
00:06:29.000 But people do it because they want to look good.
00:06:33.000 And honestly, there are a lot of people that say, well, exercise doesn't really play an important role in losing weight.
00:06:39.000 It's nutrition.
00:06:39.000 You know what?
00:06:39.000 They're right.
00:06:40.000 But exercise has a very important role, and that role is nutrition.
00:06:44.000 To cause your body stress so that you activate all these really good and awesome genes that are helping you deal with stress.
00:06:52.000 And guess what?
00:06:53.000 Stress is happening right now.
00:06:55.000 Every time you breathe in oxygen, you're making stress.
00:06:58.000 You're generating byproducts that are very dangerous.
00:07:02.000 So exercise is good.
00:07:04.000 It's definitely good.
00:07:05.000 I just get freaked out when people that are really smart don't get into exercise.
00:07:10.000 And I just, I always feel like that's just, they have a blind spot.
00:07:13.000 You know, there's a blind spot where they don't want to discipline themselves to actually do the work.
00:07:17.000 They just find it troublesome.
00:07:19.000 Or maybe they connect it with jocks or people that were assholes when they were in school.
00:07:24.000 You know, sometimes there's that connection.
00:07:26.000 Yeah, they probably don't realize the anti-anxiety effects they have.
00:07:33.000 I really also do it because I've got some kind of hyperactive stress hypothalamus pituitary axis where I'm prone to be like, What?
00:07:48.000 There's a tiger?
00:07:49.000 There's a lion?
00:07:49.000 I'm like, you know, it's always kind of like, I'm ready.
00:07:51.000 I'm ready to fight.
00:07:52.000 You know, something's coming to get me.
00:07:53.000 Sometimes when I'm really stressed, I'll get night terrors.
00:07:56.000 So, like, I'll wake up screaming.
00:07:57.000 Whoa.
00:07:58.000 I scare the crap out of Dan.
00:08:00.000 Jesus, really?
00:08:01.000 Not...
00:08:01.000 It used to be a lot, like, when I was in graduate school and I was really, really stressed.
00:08:06.000 I would wake up and I'd scream.
00:08:08.000 I thought there was, like, someone coming to get me.
00:08:12.000 And...
00:08:13.000 There was times where I actually injured myself, too.
00:08:16.000 I flew across the room because I thought there was someone coming to get me.
00:08:24.000 More than once?
00:08:25.000 Oh, yeah.
00:08:26.000 I hurt my wrist.
00:08:28.000 I hurt some tendon back here.
00:08:31.000 I broke a mirror.
00:08:32.000 Jesus.
00:08:33.000 This is like once a month, once a week?
00:08:36.000 Well, nowadays, it's almost non-existent.
00:08:39.000 I would say it happens once every...
00:08:43.000 Maybe four months.
00:08:45.000 But there was a time not too long ago, like three years ago, where I was doing it At least a couple times a week, once a week for sure.
00:08:54.000 That's so weird.
00:08:56.000 I've always associated people that are really paranoid about fear, about danger rather, with intelligence.
00:09:01.000 Because it's like, if you actually pay attention to the world around you, you realize how vulnerable you are.
00:09:06.000 And how many random things can happen, random accidents, bizarre occurrences, run into the wrong people, the wrong place at the wrong time.
00:09:15.000 And we're so easily damaged.
00:09:19.000 I'll take that as a compliment, but I actually do.
00:09:23.000 I think there's definitely something...
00:09:26.000 It's kind of an OCD loop sometimes, and I'll get that.
00:09:30.000 And it's so bad.
00:09:31.000 You just get going.
00:09:33.000 I think I even talked about it on the podcast before.
00:09:35.000 There was a time when I was scared to drive.
00:09:38.000 And even now, I drive, but I feel most comfortable driving in a place that I'm very familiar with.
00:09:44.000 But if I start to let my brain think about it, it's like, driving's scary.
00:09:48.000 Yeah.
00:09:48.000 Yeah, well, it should be.
00:09:49.000 If you look around at all these people that are texting, too, so few people are giving 100% of their attention to the road these days.
00:09:56.000 There's so much going on.
00:09:57.000 Yeah, self-driving cars.
00:09:58.000 I'm actually looking forward to that.
00:09:59.000 Well, they have them now.
00:10:01.000 Yeah, I mean, well, they're not ubiquitous.
00:10:03.000 They're not, you know, people aren't using them.
00:10:06.000 Well, my friend Matt has one, and no, he drives with it.
00:10:09.000 It's the new Tesla.
00:10:10.000 You press two buttons on it, and it literally drives on the highway.
00:10:14.000 On the highway?
00:10:16.000 Yep.
00:10:17.000 He sits back.
00:10:17.000 He doesn't even put his fucking hands on the wheel.
00:10:19.000 He's like, it's the craziest shit you've ever seen in your life.
00:10:21.000 Tom Papa.
00:10:22.000 Tom Papa has it, too.
00:10:24.000 I thought it was just the new Teslas were only allowing to let you park.
00:10:28.000 I didn't realize you could actually drive on the highway.
00:10:31.000 The newest versions of them drive on the highway.
00:10:34.000 I have two friends that have them.
00:10:36.000 I guess there's a navigation button.
00:10:39.000 You punch in the information, and then you press it twice.
00:10:42.000 And this sucker will drive you to where you need to go.
00:10:45.000 That's pretty cool.
00:10:46.000 Yeah.
00:10:46.000 It doesn't work on shitty old roads, though.
00:10:49.000 Like, Tom Papa was talking about Laurel Canyon, because Laurel Canyon's got kind of like...
00:10:52.000 It goes by computer sensors that are detecting the lines based on the cameras that the car has.
00:10:58.000 So the car has these external cameras, they see the lines, and then they adjust accordingly.
00:11:04.000 But when the lines are really wonky, like, if you've gone over Laurel Canyon, I don't think I have.
00:11:09.000 It's really shitty.
00:11:11.000 The road's kind of bumpy, a lot of potholes, and the lines are really blurry.
00:11:15.000 They're worn out.
00:11:17.000 I've been on roads like that.
00:11:18.000 Yeah, I'm sure you have.
00:11:19.000 But on a really good road, it works great.
00:11:22.000 It just drives.
00:11:25.000 Dude, I can't wait.
00:11:27.000 I'm in.
00:11:27.000 Sign me up.
00:11:28.000 But I want everyone else to be in because I'm actually afraid of everyone else.
00:11:32.000 Even coming into L.A., driving to L.A., I don't know.
00:11:37.000 People here are crazy drivers.
00:11:40.000 I saw people swerving, just constantly swerving.
00:11:44.000 I don't know if people are just really aggressive because there's so many people and you have to.
00:11:48.000 I don't know.
00:11:49.000 But I've noticed it.
00:11:50.000 Well, there was a study.
00:11:52.000 There's an episode of Radiolab about this.
00:11:54.000 They did a study on volume of people in cities and what effect the volume of people has on how many syllables per minute they say and how many steps per minute they take.
00:12:06.000 And there's a direct correlation worldwide between higher populations and like you can literally guess if you if you set up a camera on a street and you Record all the people walking by and you get a good number of people and you calculate how fast they're walking and then you record them talking.
00:12:24.000 Just from those two pieces of data, you can tell how many people are in the city.
00:12:29.000 Let's see if I can guess.
00:12:31.000 So if there's more people in the city, do you walk faster and talk less?
00:12:34.000 No, you walk faster and you talk faster.
00:12:36.000 Oh, you talk faster.
00:12:37.000 You talk faster and you walk faster.
00:12:39.000 Both of those things.
00:12:40.000 But there's a direct correlation.
00:12:42.000 So they're looking at the speed of how you talk, not how frequent you talk.
00:12:46.000 Exactly.
00:12:46.000 Okay.
00:12:47.000 Exactly.
00:12:47.000 How fast you talk, how quickly you walk.
00:12:50.000 Because I feel like the faster you walk, the more you're like, I gotta go, go, go, go, go, the less likely you're gonna stop and talk to someone.
00:12:56.000 Do you know what I mean?
00:12:56.000 So it's kind of like...
00:12:57.000 But it's just like, you know, hey man, I gotta go.
00:12:59.000 Where are you going?
00:13:00.000 Dude, we've got to fucking go downtown.
00:13:02.000 There's a lot of shit going on.
00:13:03.000 See ya.
00:13:03.000 Bye.
00:13:04.000 Whereas if you go to the middle of rural Tennessee, well, hello.
00:13:08.000 What's your name?
00:13:09.000 Dr. Rhonda.
00:13:10.000 Well, very nice to meet you, Dr. Rhonda.
00:13:12.000 What kind of doctor are you?
00:13:14.000 I guess that could be why there's sort of a stereotype that people in the South are a little friendlier.
00:13:21.000 Maybe that's why.
00:13:23.000 There's less people.
00:13:24.000 They have more time.
00:13:26.000 I know I get in this loop where it's like...
00:13:28.000 I'm so busy.
00:13:29.000 I know you're super busy where it's just like, dude, I don't have time.
00:13:32.000 I gotta go.
00:13:33.000 I'm trying to get out of that.
00:13:35.000 Yeah, I think it's a good balance.
00:13:37.000 You need a balance.
00:13:38.000 You need that drive, that motivation.
00:13:41.000 It's good to like, you're obviously doing something productive that's contributing to society.
00:13:46.000 You feel like you're fulfilling something.
00:13:49.000 But also then...
00:13:50.000 Dude, life just goes.
00:13:52.000 Yeah.
00:13:53.000 It goes quick.
00:13:54.000 Quick.
00:13:54.000 It goes quick and, you know, I'm almost 50. I'm 48. I'll be 49 in August.
00:13:59.000 And then, like, this is like, my body works great now, but for how long?
00:14:04.000 You know?
00:14:05.000 Nobody's body works great at 70. It just doesn't.
00:14:08.000 They're all shitty.
00:14:11.000 Everybody's like holding their back and their fucking knees hurt when you hit 80. Who's an athlete at 80?
00:14:17.000 Who's doing cartwheels at 80 and doing 20 chin-ups in a row?
00:14:21.000 It's just not happening.
00:14:22.000 I used to surf with a guy back when I was in college.
00:14:26.000 He was a surgeon.
00:14:28.000 He was a doctor.
00:14:28.000 We called him Doc.
00:14:30.000 And he was pushing 90. I don't remember, like, 88, 89. We rounded up and it was like, he's 90. But he was out there surfing, catching waves.
00:14:39.000 Now, I'm sure he wasn't competing.
00:14:42.000 But I do think that the more physically fit you are...
00:14:48.000 And the more, you know, throughout your life and the better you eat, these things are all going to affect the way you age.
00:14:53.000 They're all going to affect, you know, how much pain you're in, you know, all that stuff.
00:14:57.000 And obviously losing muscle mass is a big thing.
00:15:00.000 You know, starting at 40, humans start to lose like 0.5 to 1% or something like that of muscle mass per year.
00:15:08.000 Just without doing anything.
00:15:11.000 That makes sense.
00:15:12.000 Yeah, I think that that's probably one of the more difficult things to gain as you get older.
00:15:17.000 So if you can maintain it, you're way better off.
00:15:20.000 Because if you're out of shape your whole life and then all of a sudden you're pushing 60 and you're like, you know what?
00:15:25.000 I need to get to the gym.
00:15:26.000 Well, it's so hard to make gains.
00:15:28.000 It's so hard to do anything.
00:15:30.000 Any sort of real resistance training on a regular basis, and you're going to be so sore.
00:15:36.000 It's going to be so hard to build a base.
00:15:37.000 This is going to be a much more difficult route.
00:15:40.000 It's difficult now.
00:15:41.000 And you know that resistance training...
00:15:42.000 It's something...
00:15:44.000 I don't know a lot about this, but it's a topic that I'm interested in, you know, because I'm convinced that maintaining muscle mass is very important as you age.
00:15:53.000 And specifically, I think that the type 2 type of muscle fibers that you do get when you're doing more resistance training, those are the kind of fast twitch.
00:16:02.000 I think those actually...
00:16:04.000 You play a role in stability, being able to quickly lose your balance, which is important as you start to get older and you become more frail.
00:16:14.000 Falling down and breaking your hip, that can take you out.
00:16:16.000 That's a big problem.
00:16:18.000 That's another thing that bone density gets increased by muscle resistance training, weight training, squats, deadlifts, things along those lines.
00:16:25.000 That has a pretty profound effect on bone density.
00:16:28.000 Yeah.
00:16:33.000 Yeah.
00:16:45.000 Yeah.
00:17:00.000 Teeth and bones and muscle.
00:17:02.000 But calcium plays a very important role in the bloodstream as well.
00:17:05.000 So anytime we're not getting enough calcium, and I think something like 38% of the U.S. population doesn't get enough calcium.
00:17:13.000 So there's a huge percentage of the population that doesn't get enough calcium.
00:17:17.000 Whenever you don't get enough, your body actually pulls it out of the bone and brings it to the bloodstream so that it can play an important role in endothelial cells and making sure they don't get too stiff.
00:17:28.000 That's where osteoporosis comes from?
00:17:30.000 Yeah, because as you age, if you imagine a lifetime of chronic, you know, calcium, quote-unquote, inadequacy, so you're never getting enough of the calcium every day, eventually that's going to start to build up and you're going to keep pulling it out of your bone, you're going to keep pulling it out of bone.
00:17:46.000 You know, there's a couple of things that regulate that.
00:17:49.000 That's one.
00:17:49.000 Just, you know, obviously just not getting enough calcium so you keep pulling it out of your bone.
00:17:53.000 And the other thing is not getting enough of the—so doing the types of exercises that you need to do to, you know, make sure you're releasing these hormones that are bringing calcium to the bone, that are, you know, doing that.
00:18:06.000 And also certain dietary factors can play a role in that.
00:18:08.000 So making sure that you're getting enough vitamin K— Vitamin K1 is found in green plants.
00:18:15.000 It plays a role in blood coagulation.
00:18:17.000 When you have enough of it for that blood coagulation, then some vitamin K stays around the bloodstream and activates osteocalcium and other genes that are able to pull the calcium to the bone.
00:18:27.000 Vitamin K2 never really goes to the liver, and that's something that's found in...
00:18:33.000 Fermented sort of bacteria make it.
00:18:36.000 So, like, you can find vitamin K2 in the Western diet, like cheeses, blue cheeses, fermented cheeses have a higher amount.
00:18:43.000 There's some in organ meat, like liver, but natto, fermented soybeans are the highest.
00:18:49.000 Fermented soybeans?
00:18:50.000 Natto?
00:18:51.000 Is that what it's called?
00:18:51.000 If you're comparing cheese or even organ meat to natto, looking at K2 levels, there's no comparison.
00:18:59.000 Natto's got a huge amount.
00:19:02.000 I've never even heard of that stuff.
00:19:04.000 It's pretty big in the health community.
00:19:06.000 It's also high in something else called spermidine, which is able to clear away damaged cells in your body.
00:19:16.000 And it's through a process called autophagy.
00:19:18.000 So we're always getting damaged cells.
00:19:21.000 And anytime we have a cell that's damaged, damaged cells occur just from normal metabolism.
00:19:28.000 But as our telomeres start to get shorter, The telomeres always take the hit.
00:19:32.000 So telomeres are those tiny caps on the end of your chromosomes.
00:19:35.000 And they always are sacrificing themselves because they don't want your DNA to get the damage.
00:19:39.000 Because if your DNA gets the damage, it could lead to cancer.
00:19:42.000 So they take the hit.
00:19:44.000 And as they start to get shorter, it accelerates their shortening because they already get shorter each year.
00:19:49.000 Then what happens is the cell becomes what's called senescent.
00:19:52.000 And what that means is a cell just sits around in your bloodstream or in your kidney or in your liver, whatever organ we're talking about, and it's not really alive, so it's not metabolic, but it doesn't go away.
00:20:02.000 It's not dead.
00:20:03.000 So what it does, it just sits there and it starts to secrete pro-inflammatory cytokines, which then activate nearby immune cells to fire away nasty chemicals and damage more cells.
00:20:15.000 So what happens is you start to damage nearby cells.
00:20:17.000 You can think about, have you ever noticed when you get a gray hair?
00:20:21.000 So gray hair, you'll get senescent melanocytes, which are the cells that produce the pigment.
00:20:28.000 You'll get one that's senescent, so it's just kind of sitting there, and it causes a hair follicle or hair to become gray.
00:20:36.000 And then all the other hair cells around nearby, you always get them near each other.
00:20:41.000 And part of that has to do with the fact that the senescent melanocyte in this case, which is in the hair follicle, is secreting all this nasty stuff that then damages other nearby hair cells.
00:20:52.000 Wow, that's fascinating.
00:20:54.000 Oh, so anyways, back to the spermidine.
00:20:55.000 The spermidine actually clears away.
00:20:58.000 It activates this whole genetic system we have in our body called autophagy, which is like self-eating.
00:21:04.000 So we start to eat the cell and clear it away.
00:21:07.000 And recently, within the last month, A study came out where scientists actually engineered mice using CRISPR technology to clear away every time they had a senescent cell.
00:21:19.000 You and I are getting senescent cells right now.
00:21:21.000 Like, right now.
00:21:22.000 Sorry, Jamie.
00:21:23.000 It's happening.
00:21:24.000 It's happening all the time.
00:21:26.000 But these researchers did this brilliant experiment where they designed...
00:21:31.000 They were like, okay, a senescent cell has a certain marker on it.
00:21:34.000 And so they then said, okay, when this marker gets expressed...
00:21:37.000 I want you to have these immune cells go and clear it away and eat it.
00:21:42.000 And so every time there was a senescent cell, the immune system cleared it out and the mice ended up living 30% longer than their normal lifespan.
00:21:51.000 Pretty cool.
00:21:52.000 So autophagy it's called.
00:21:54.000 It's pretty cool.
00:21:54.000 And there are other things that actually increase it.
00:21:57.000 Resveratrol.
00:21:59.000 Resveratrol from...
00:22:01.000 It's one of those plant compounds that's...
00:22:05.000 This has been a recent obsession of mine.
00:22:08.000 But plants make natural insecticides.
00:22:12.000 And for millions of years, plants have been figuring out a way to ward off insects and fungus.
00:22:20.000 Because they also want to stay alive.
00:22:22.000 Just like we do.
00:22:23.000 And...
00:22:25.000 They don't actually make enough of these chemicals to kill the insect.
00:22:30.000 It's kind of like just go away.
00:22:31.000 So they often affect their nervous system and just kind of make them go away.
00:22:35.000 But what's really cool is that these compounds in plants, and there are so many different ones, actually have a hormetic effect on us.
00:22:43.000 So that hormetic effect being in small doses, it activates our whole stress response pathway like exercise does.
00:22:53.000 Resveratrol is actually made in grape skins and also blueberries make to a much less degree, but it's made to ward off fungus.
00:23:01.000 Resveratrol has been shown at least in a high dose, like 1,000 milligrams a day, to clear away.
00:23:08.000 It actually activates this whole genetic pathway that gets activated when you're fasting.
00:23:13.000 Fasting is another type of hormetic stress.
00:23:15.000 So when you're fasting, you cause damaged cells to clear away.
00:23:20.000 You also basically start to turn on all these genes that help you deal with stress because your body's like, oh my god, I can't.
00:23:26.000 I don't have food.
00:23:27.000 I need to deal with this.
00:23:28.000 So you activate all these really good You know, genetic pathways where you're making more antioxidants, you're making more anti-inflammatories, you're making more brain cells, you're preparing just everything good.
00:23:39.000 So resveratrol kind of is thought of like a mimetic of fasting in a way because it activates like one of these pathways that gets activated and it changes gene expression.
00:23:49.000 I've been very skeptical of the resveratrol literature for quite some time.
00:23:54.000 Back in 2003 or so, when it first came into the aging world, I was very skeptical of it.
00:24:01.000 Mostly because a lot of the studies that have been done in animals, where they feed animals resveratrol, they feed them such large amounts that are just not relevant to humans.
00:24:10.000 So I was like, well, so what?
00:24:12.000 But the more I've been reading about it recently, the more I've become a little more convinced that there actually may be something to...
00:24:19.000 To this resveratrol.
00:24:20.000 It's activating this pathway called SIRT1, which is globally changing gene expression.
00:24:26.000 It's epigenetics.
00:24:27.000 It's activating all these good things and deactivating bad things.
00:24:30.000 And so it's really interesting.
00:24:34.000 There was a study that was published not long ago, a couple years ago, that was done in monkeys, where monkeys were given a high sugar diet and high sugar plus high fat, which is a bad combo.
00:24:43.000 And they gave them resveratrol, you know, I think?
00:25:05.000 But there's so many other plants.
00:25:07.000 There's a book that was written by an Indian scientist called Plant Antifedants.
00:25:14.000 And it's a very dry...
00:25:16.000 I mean, it's a textbook.
00:25:17.000 So it's not something people read.
00:25:20.000 It's a textbook, really.
00:25:21.000 But what he does in this book, there's over 900 different chemical compounds in a variety of plants.
00:25:28.000 He's a plant...
00:25:55.000 So that's his specialty.
00:25:56.000 It actually causes a slight stress in our brain and it has been shown in mice to protect against ischemic stroke because it activates all these good things.
00:26:06.000 It protects against ischemic stroke.
00:26:09.000 There's another one called galantamine, which is in snowdrop flowers.
00:26:13.000 Galantamine is also stressful in the brain.
00:26:16.000 Like I said, these plant compounds are designed to target insect nervous systems, so it's no surprise they're affecting the nervous system of mammals.
00:26:26.000 In fact, in this case, humans as well.
00:26:28.000 Galantamine increases acetylcholine production in the brain, and acetylcholine plays a role in learning and memory and It's actually given to Alzheimer's patients, galantamine, to help them remember things, to help them to improve their memory.
00:26:43.000 But it's just one of those natural insecticides.
00:26:47.000 Acetylcholine is a nootropic.
00:26:49.000 A lot of people take acetylcholine just from memory.
00:26:52.000 Well, the thing I like about getting it from...
00:26:57.000 Getting it from a hormetic type of response versus, let's say someone designed a drug to activate the acetylcholine receptor, is that you always have these biological feedback mechanisms.
00:27:11.000 When you start to activate a receptor in the brain...
00:27:14.000 So pharmacologically, your brain knows.
00:27:17.000 Your brain's like, oh, I'm getting a lot of this stuff that I don't usually get a lot of.
00:27:21.000 I'm going to stop making as much of the receptor.
00:27:23.000 The receptor is what's necessary to have the physiological response.
00:27:27.000 So your brain's like, oh, I'm just going to stop making as much of this receptor.
00:27:31.000 But then what happens is if you don't give it that signal, if you don't take that drug, then you've got less of that receptor.
00:27:37.000 And so you're going to have massive withdrawal.
00:27:40.000 It's going to be crazy because now whatever acetylcholine you do make, it's not going to have much of an effect because there's less of that receptor there to actually bind to it.
00:27:51.000 Whereas when you have something like galantamine, something that's a hormetic inducer, what's happening is you're not actually...
00:28:01.000 Yeah.
00:28:21.000 For whatever reason, the galantamine is like the one that says, okay, acetylcholine.
00:28:26.000 So your body, it's a response to something kind of like triggering it, you know?
00:28:31.000 And so you're not going to have that feedback mechanism where it's like...
00:28:34.000 So if you take it in a pharmacological form, a pharmaceutical form...
00:28:38.000 Yeah, I'm just saying a lot of, you know, I mean, the classic example would be opioids, right?
00:28:44.000 Opioid painkillers.
00:28:45.000 So when you're taking an opioid painkiller, what's happening is there's a couple of different opioid receptors in the brain.
00:28:55.000 And the opioid painkiller is kind of like a morphine derivative, which is sort of like endorphin.
00:29:00.000 It binds to something called the mu opioid receptor, which is what endorphins bind to.
00:29:05.000 Endorphins make you feel good.
00:29:06.000 That's also part of the reason why you exercise, why you're wanting that endorphin release.
00:29:12.000 What happens when you start to make a drug, like morphine derivative type of drug, that goes and directly activates that receptor, binds to it, is that receptor, the mu opioid receptor, you start to make less of it.
00:29:24.000 And that's been shown.
00:29:25.000 When you give morphine drugs, you down-regulate, you make less of the receptors.
00:29:30.000 So now what happens is when you don't have that opioid drug, you know, let's say you had, you know, this much receptor.
00:29:35.000 You start taking the drug, right?
00:29:37.000 And now your receptor's going down here, right?
00:29:39.000 And so now if you don't have the drug, you're down here, and so any endorphin you make isn't going to do much.
00:29:44.000 You're like, oh man, I need more of that.
00:29:45.000 And, you know, so you keep having, just to get back up to baseline, just to get back up to normal, Yeah.
00:30:09.000 Which I think I've discussed with you before on one of the podcasts because kappa opioid receptor is sort of the opposite of the mu opioid receptor because it actually, when you make something in your body called dynorphin, it's responsible for a dysphoric feeling.
00:30:25.000 I think?
00:30:39.000 That's a good sign.
00:30:40.000 When you're sweating, you're making dynorphin.
00:30:42.000 When you sit in the sauna, you're making dynorphin.
00:30:45.000 And, you know, when you're working out hard enough that you're sweating, you're physically uncomfortable, right?
00:30:49.000 You're like, damn, it sucks.
00:30:50.000 You feel uncomfortable.
00:30:52.000 And the same goes when you're sitting in a hot sauna and you're sweating and you're getting really hot.
00:30:56.000 Man, you're just like this.
00:30:57.000 You feel dysphoric.
00:30:59.000 Like, that's...
00:31:01.000 What's happening is dynorphin is binding to the kappa opioid receptor.
00:31:04.000 Well, the really cool thing about this whole pathway, again, coming back to feedback, biology is so smart.
00:31:10.000 It always, like, figures out a way.
00:31:13.000 When you start to activate that kappa opioid receptor, your body's like, whoa, I'm getting a lot of this bad stuff.
00:31:18.000 I need to, like, make more of these good receptors because I got too much of this dysphoric.
00:31:24.000 So it actually causes...
00:31:27.000 It causes your body to make more mu-opioid receptors and it makes them sensitive.
00:31:31.000 So then the next time you release endorphin, you know, your workout, boom, it feels even better and it lasts, you know.
00:31:38.000 So that's part of the reason why I know that there's certain drugs that are used to treat opioid addiction.
00:31:50.000 We're good to go.
00:32:13.000 Kind of went on a little rant there, but it's...
00:32:15.000 There's a few things I wanted to ask you.
00:32:17.000 I didn't want to stop you.
00:32:18.000 The first one, go back to resveratrol and black walnuts and all these different things.
00:32:22.000 Do these things work synergistically or do they cancel each other out or is there any problems in combining them?
00:32:30.000 Yeah, great.
00:32:31.000 That's just like, you know, so the question is, Synergistically would mean, can you then combine two things and have an even more powerful response?
00:32:41.000 Well, the thing is, is that because these compounds are targeting different pathways, you're going to have some overlap, which will have a synergistic effect, but you're also going to have a diverse...
00:32:54.000 There's going to be diversity.
00:32:55.000 So, you know, you're going to have the plumagenin and the black walnuts, the galantamine...
00:32:59.000 And then you get your apigenin from celery.
00:33:01.000 You know, apigenin causes your brain to make more neural neurons, neural stem cells.
00:33:06.000 You get the resveratrol, which is like clearing away damaged cells.
00:33:10.000 It's also anti-inflammatory.
00:33:12.000 And then you go and eat your kale and broccoli.
00:33:14.000 That makes something called isothiocyanates.
00:33:18.000 Isothiocyanates are very potent anti-cancer.
00:33:22.000 So, they actually change genes.
00:33:26.000 We have genes in our body that are able to convert a pro-carcinogen into a carcinogen.
00:33:35.000 Isothiocinates stop that from happening.
00:33:36.000 And we also have genes in our body that can deactivate anything that could potentially become a carcinogen.
00:33:41.000 We're exposed to all sorts of stuff every day.
00:33:43.000 So activating those genes is super awesome.
00:33:46.000 In fact, it's been shown in mice.
00:33:47.000 If you give mice a really high dose of isothiocinates and then you inoculate them, you inject them with tumor cells, They will not form tumors, whereas the mice that are injected...
00:33:57.000 Yes.
00:33:57.000 And there's another study that was done in humans and men.
00:34:00.000 Men that took around...
00:34:01.000 They ate 250 grams of broccoli or Brussels sprouts.
00:34:06.000 So isothiocinates are in the cruciferous family of vegetables.
00:34:10.000 So kale, broccoli, cabbage, Brussels sprouts, bok choy...
00:34:14.000 Cauliflower?
00:34:15.000 Cauliflower.
00:34:16.000 Yeah, all that stuff.
00:34:18.000 Brassica.
00:34:18.000 Those are all...
00:34:19.000 They all have isothiocinates in them.
00:34:22.000 Actually, the isothiocyanates are stored in something in the plant called glycosinolates.
00:34:29.000 And in order to release the isothiocyanates, the plants have an enzyme called myrosinase, which we have a little bit of it, a little bit in our saliva, a little bit in our gut bacteria, but not much.
00:34:40.000 And myrosinase is heat sensitive.
00:34:42.000 So when you heat your You're cruciferous.
00:34:46.000 You're inactivating about 50% of it.
00:34:47.000 And it's still good to cook vegetables.
00:34:49.000 I mean, it's good to get both.
00:34:51.000 But the raw kale that you put in your smoothie or the raw broccoli you're eating, the raw broccoli sprouts have seven times more.
00:34:59.000 Because they're a young plant.
00:35:01.000 Young, again, comes back to that when you're younger, the stress response is more potent because nature wants you to survive.
00:35:07.000 So broccoli sprouts, isothiocinates are made to ward off, you know, creatures from eating them.
00:35:13.000 So the younger the plant is, the more they make of it.
00:35:16.000 And so broccoli sprouts, I used to actually sprout them.
00:35:20.000 Have you ever tried broccoli sprouts before?
00:35:22.000 I have, yeah.
00:35:23.000 They're pretty pungent.
00:35:24.000 I've never made them, though.
00:35:26.000 It's really easy.
00:35:27.000 Like, you can order some seeds on Amazon.
00:35:29.000 And then get like this, like this mesh bag.
00:35:33.000 And you put the seeds in and then you wet the bag and you just keep wetting it every day.
00:35:37.000 And after about five days, you'll have broccoli sprouts.
00:35:39.000 So really good on salads.
00:35:41.000 Not so good in smoothie.
00:35:42.000 I used to put them in my smoothie.
00:35:44.000 And it's like, it makes me want to barf like it's so gross.
00:35:48.000 I mean, it's really good for you, but it's just like, it's so bitter.
00:35:51.000 But then again, you know, when I was doing, I've gone through so many different, I'd make different smoothies all the time.
00:35:57.000 My smoothies are disgusting.
00:35:58.000 If you ever ate my smoothies, you'd probably barf.
00:36:00.000 You have no idea.
00:36:01.000 I have done, like, broccoli sprouts, mustard greens, garlic.
00:36:07.000 And then, you know, carrots and other stuff.
00:36:09.000 But that right there, like the...
00:36:11.000 Have you ever tried mustard greens?
00:36:12.000 I have had mustard greens.
00:36:14.000 I've never tried it in a smoothie.
00:36:15.000 It's burnt.
00:36:16.000 It'll be like...
00:36:16.000 You'll think you're drinking hot chili peppers.
00:36:18.000 Well, I put giant chunks of ginger and four cloves of garlic, four large cloves of garlic.
00:36:23.000 Four?
00:36:23.000 Four.
00:36:24.000 Dude, that is crazy.
00:36:25.000 So garlic.
00:36:26.000 All right.
00:36:27.000 Let's finish the isothiocinates, but that...
00:36:29.000 Okay.
00:36:30.000 It all has to do with these hormetic...
00:36:32.000 I'll hold that in the back of my mind.
00:36:33.000 I still have another question on top of that.
00:36:34.000 Keep going.
00:36:35.000 Go, go, go.
00:36:36.000 Dude, this is my recent obsession, is these plant insecticides.
00:36:40.000 I really think, we don't even know what's in these plants, but these isothiocyanates, men that ate 250 grams of it, they actually, in their urine, there's a biomarker of a compound that inactivates Like a certain carcinogen, a potential carcinogen,
00:36:56.000 and they increase that by 10%, meaning that they're doing good stuff, basically.
00:37:01.000 The isothiocinates are really good for the brain, too.
00:37:04.000 A type of isothiocinate is sulforaphane, which is in the broccoli sprouts.
00:37:08.000 It's been shown to help with autism.
00:37:11.000 It induces a stress response in the brain, and your brain does all this good stuff.
00:37:17.000 And then there's like apigenin in the celery.
00:37:19.000 There's garlic, the allicine.
00:37:23.000 Allicine is in garlic and allicine is...
00:37:27.000 In order to activate allicine, you have to chop or blend or chew garlic.
00:37:35.000 Allicine itself is not sensitive to heat, but if you don't chop up the garlic, the enzymes in the garlic, allicinases, won't get activated and won't release the allicin.
00:37:45.000 So if you try to swallow a whole clove...
00:37:47.000 Is that what you mean?
00:37:48.000 If you swallow a whole clove, or some people cook with whole cloves, they don't chop them.
00:37:52.000 So if you're cooking with garlic, chop the garlic and let it sit for like 5 to 10 minutes before putting it in the heat.
00:37:59.000 Really?
00:38:00.000 Yes.
00:38:00.000 Like you let it sit out, like on a cutting board?
00:38:02.000 Exactly.
00:38:03.000 Because you'll harvest the most allicin from it.
00:38:07.000 Allicin's another one of these natural plant insecticides.
00:38:10.000 So it accentuates as time goes on?
00:38:12.000 So it just takes a little while for the enzyme to release it.
00:38:15.000 So it takes a few minutes, the enzyme releases it.
00:38:18.000 Even though this plant was picked maybe a week ago or a month ago or whatever the hell it is?
00:38:23.000 Well, you have to break the walls of the garlic for the allicinase to get released.
00:38:27.000 But more of it releases over time.
00:38:29.000 That seems so strange.
00:38:30.000 No, it's not that more of it releases.
00:38:31.000 It's just that you have to give it time for the enzymes to get activated and release it.
00:38:36.000 It doesn't take that long.
00:38:38.000 I mean, honestly, if you were to wait like five minutes, you'd be fine probably.
00:38:41.000 But I'm just on the cautious side.
00:38:44.000 I like to wait like five or ten minutes.
00:38:47.000 But yeah, if you just chop the garlic and immediately, the enzymes have to get activated and then they chop it up and then the allusins release.
00:38:54.000 So that takes a couple of minutes.
00:38:56.000 It just seems odd to me that there's a process once it's been picked and it's sitting there.
00:38:59.000 It's obviously not alive anymore.
00:39:01.000 You know, it's sitting in like a little bowl.
00:39:03.000 Yeah, but the enzyme's not active until you break.
00:39:05.000 The garlic's been picked, but it's in like a clove thing, right?
00:39:08.000 You have to open it out.
00:39:09.000 You have to get it out of the clove and cut the cell wall to activate these enzymes.
00:39:15.000 When I don't feel good, I chew a whole clove of garlic, too.
00:39:17.000 I used to do that.
00:39:18.000 Yeah.
00:39:19.000 It's supposed to be good for you, right?
00:39:20.000 It is.
00:39:20.000 It's antimicrobial.
00:39:22.000 They have very, very potent antimicrobial activities.
00:39:24.000 It kills a wide variety of bacteria.
00:39:26.000 Well, you talked about that MRSA case that you had, and I relay that to everybody because my friend Denny had a really bad case of MRSA. And I told him about your situation.
00:39:35.000 He had it actually after you had been on the podcast the last time.
00:39:39.000 And I told him his photo is insane.
00:39:42.000 He's got a photo that I put on my Instagram page of his knee.
00:39:45.000 I mean, his knee got, within a couple of days, it went from being mildly infected, like what's going on, to he was in the hospital for weeks.
00:39:53.000 Oh, wow.
00:39:54.000 Massive intravenous antibiotics, the whole deal.
00:39:59.000 It was awful.
00:40:00.000 I told them about what you had done with grapeseed extract.
00:40:03.000 Was that what it was?
00:40:05.000 First of all, I should probably clarify.
00:40:06.000 I'm not exactly sure it was MRSA because it wasn't actually cultured.
00:40:10.000 I assume it was because it came back like three times.
00:40:14.000 Staff, one way or another.
00:40:16.000 It was staff, yeah.
00:40:17.000 I was taking garlic pills like every hour.
00:40:21.000 Grapefruit seed extract every hour.
00:40:22.000 Is that good enough?
00:40:24.000 Is the garlic extract getting from a pill?
00:40:27.000 So...
00:40:28.000 The question is, there's aged garlic, and then there's just regular garlic peels, and then there's fresh garlic.
00:40:38.000 It all depends.
00:40:39.000 So some of the garlic that is aged has allicin in it, but it doesn't have other mercapitans in it.
00:40:45.000 There's other mercapitans that are doing other things.
00:40:48.000 What is mercapitans?
00:40:49.000 Mercapitans, it's another byproduct of these plant insecticides.
00:40:54.000 And mercapitans are...
00:40:56.000 First, they bind mercury very well.
00:41:00.000 So they will bind mercury and help you excrete it.
00:41:03.000 So they bind mercury that's in your system and you excrete it.
00:41:06.000 And they also do something in your brain so that they can actually cross over the blood-brain barrier, get into your brain.
00:41:14.000 And they're potent antioxidant in the cell membrane, which is...
00:41:18.000 It's kind of technical, but it's hard to find antioxidants that are in the cell membrane itself.
00:41:23.000 Most of the time, they're soluble in the cell.
00:41:25.000 So it's actually very good for your brain.
00:41:29.000 So I was taking the garlic oil.
00:41:32.000 Garlic oil would have...
00:41:34.000 It should have both, both of those.
00:41:37.000 And I was also rubbing it on my sore topically.
00:41:41.000 So I was rubbing it on there and taking an orally grapefruit seed extract.
00:41:45.000 I was taking ginkgo biloba because that was also shown to kill different staphylococcus strains and vitamin C. And I was taking this stuff like every hour.
00:41:55.000 Wow.
00:41:55.000 Every hour.
00:41:56.000 Just overloading your system.
00:41:58.000 Yeah, like garlic was, it was like massive garlic.
00:42:01.000 But the garlic itself, you know, it's antimicrobial, but also there was a study that was recently published.
00:42:07.000 Men that had like atherosclerosis, they were given 2.4 grams of garlic.
00:42:14.000 And it actually slowed the accumulation of plaques in their arteries by like 80% because allicin is a very potent anti-inflammatory and it helps the endothelial cells, helps reduce inflammation in the endothelial cells.
00:42:28.000 It's good.
00:42:29.000 It's really good.
00:42:33.000 It just goes on and on.
00:42:34.000 I don't even know.
00:42:35.000 There's so many different compounds.
00:42:36.000 But these are just ones we know of.
00:42:40.000 They're doing really, really positive and potent things.
00:42:44.000 Curcumin is one that I've been obsessed with.
00:42:46.000 We need to talk about that later.
00:42:46.000 I take a lot of curcumin.
00:42:48.000 I take that every day.
00:42:50.000 I have been obsessed with a certain form of it, this formulation of it.
00:42:54.000 So I know we've talked about this before on the podcast, but curcumin, there's a couple of problems with the bioavailability of it.
00:43:00.000 First is that your stomach acid and your intestines, it can't get past that very well.
00:43:06.000 So it doesn't actually get absorbed.
00:43:08.000 And whatever does get absorbed, it's immediately cleared because your body's like, toxic, no, go away.
00:43:15.000 So taking curcumin, which is in turmeric, It's in the turmeric plant.
00:43:21.000 That is...
00:43:23.000 You can be taking it but not getting a lot.
00:43:26.000 It's not doing a lot.
00:43:27.000 So there's this new formulation.
00:43:29.000 I don't know how new it is.
00:43:30.000 It's new to my mind.
00:43:31.000 It's new to Rhonda.
00:43:33.000 Where they take the curcumin and it's put in a phytosome.
00:43:38.000 Which is sort of like a liposome.
00:43:41.000 But it's a little different.
00:43:43.000 So liposomes contain a chemical compound like...
00:43:47.000 In the middle of it.
00:43:49.000 So they have like a phospholipid kind of complex that contains the compound and it's supposed to increase bioavailability because it gets past the intestinal system and also it can just fuse with your cell membrane and just deliver the contents to the cell.
00:44:01.000 So it can bypass transporters and all this other stuff.
00:44:04.000 Phytosomes are very similar.
00:44:05.000 They also have this phospholipid complex.
00:44:09.000 In this case, they use phosphatidylcholine.
00:44:11.000 But it also disperses the compound throughout and supposedly it's supposed to be more bioavailable.
00:44:17.000 I don't know if that's really true, but I have been reading some published studies using this certain formulation of curcumin in a phytosome, which is phosphatidylcholine.
00:44:28.000 And the formulation has got a patent name.
00:44:30.000 It's called Meriva.
00:44:32.000 But, you know, if there is curcumin in a liposome, it's probably working the same way.
00:44:38.000 I just doubt that dispersing the molecules within the actual liposome makes that big of a difference.
00:44:46.000 It's more about getting past—so what this does is it gets you past the absorption issue, and it also gets past—because it fuses with the cells— Quickly, it gets past some of the other, you know, getting rid of it quickly issue.
00:44:59.000 But I've been taking it, like I've been taking at least a gram a day, gram a day of it.
00:45:06.000 And what got me really hooked on it was a couple of studies that came out, clinical studies that were done Well, first, there was one that showed people that were running downhill, some sort of running downhill that caused delayed onset muscle soreness to happen.
00:45:23.000 So whatever it was about the running downhill.
00:45:26.000 It's pounding deceleration.
00:45:27.000 Is that what it is?
00:45:28.000 Running downhill is rough.
00:45:29.000 It's actually easier to run uphill on your body sometimes than running downhill is.
00:45:34.000 I don't know about your brain, though.
00:45:36.000 Yeah.
00:45:36.000 Your brain's like, oh.
00:45:37.000 Your brain's like, no, I'm done.
00:45:38.000 Yeah.
00:45:39.000 Yeah.
00:45:40.000 But it was shown to reduce the delayed onset muscle soreness by like twofold, taking one gram twice a day.
00:45:49.000 Isn't that kind of subjective, though, when you say, like, reducing soreness?
00:45:51.000 It's so hard to gauge.
00:45:53.000 It is.
00:45:53.000 Absolutely.
00:45:54.000 That absolutely is subjective.
00:45:55.000 And same with the other...
00:45:57.000 There's another publication where people were given...
00:45:59.000 There's a more quantified publication, but that was done in people that had, like, osteoarthritis.
00:46:07.000 Arthritis.
00:46:07.000 They were given one gram...
00:46:11.000 I think it was just one gram a day, not two grams.
00:46:13.000 I think it was one gram a day.
00:46:14.000 And it actually reduced their inflammatory markers by like 68%.
00:46:21.000 It reduced their symptoms, of course.
00:46:23.000 But also, it increased their mobility.
00:46:25.000 So they checked their mobility, increased their mobility by like fourfold.
00:46:28.000 So they were actually moving more.
00:46:30.000 The reason may be because of the anti-inflammation properties.
00:46:36.000 Curcumin is very...
00:46:37.000 Very potent, anti-inflammatory.
00:46:39.000 Way more, you know, it acts very different than like typical anti-inflammatories do.
00:46:45.000 But there was a study done in mice where mice were given like a very high dose of not this formulation, just regular curcumin.
00:46:52.000 They're given like 100 milligrams per kilogram body weight, which is like insane.
00:46:55.000 It's like eight.
00:46:57.000 8 grams for a 180-pound meal, which is a lot.
00:47:00.000 I mean, it's a lot of curcumin.
00:47:02.000 What does that look like in your hand?
00:47:04.000 A big pile, probably.
00:47:06.000 Yeah, like a cue ball.
00:47:08.000 Yeah, I mean, I did see, because I was kind of concerned about toxicity, I did see one study that was done on people that had cancer.
00:47:16.000 They were given 8 grams of curcumin a day for 3 weeks, and there was no side effects.
00:47:23.000 I don't know.
00:47:23.000 It's a lot.
00:47:24.000 It's a lot.
00:47:24.000 I personally think the phosphatidylcholine complex is a better approach.
00:47:29.000 And there's only one proprietary formulation of that?
00:47:33.000 I think there's a Mareva and there's another one someone recently shared with me, Longevidia.
00:47:39.000 So would you recommend the standardized stuff that you get at a regular vitamin store or no?
00:47:45.000 I actually think the phosphatidylcholine complex is superior.
00:47:52.000 Because of the bioavailability issues and because it is, you know, fusing with your cell membrane and getting just the biology all makes sense.
00:48:00.000 Plus, there's actual studies showing that it works.
00:48:02.000 And, you know, there was another study.
00:48:04.000 So this mouse study where they gave them eight grams, what the whole point of the study was, was they injured the mice.
00:48:11.000 They, like, they did some sort of force.
00:48:13.000 It's so fucked up.
00:48:14.000 They put force.
00:48:15.000 It was so messed up.
00:48:16.000 You have no idea how many mice I've killed, like, in my...
00:48:20.000 My scientific career.
00:48:21.000 I don't do it anymore.
00:48:22.000 I killed hundreds of mice in graduate school.
00:48:26.000 Don't say this online.
00:48:26.000 The vegans will come.
00:48:27.000 It's for medicine.
00:48:29.000 I would harvest that.
00:48:30.000 They don't care.
00:48:31.000 You're a speciesist.
00:48:32.000 It was so awful, Joe.
00:48:33.000 The awful part about this is like...
00:48:36.000 So I used to go and kill mice to get their organs.
00:48:39.000 So I would get their livers, which is one reason why I have a hard time cooking liver, because I'm like, oh, that's rough.
00:48:43.000 Oh, rodent liver.
00:48:44.000 Oh, no.
00:48:45.000 Because the consistency is like the same as beef liver.
00:48:48.000 I get their livers and thymus and spleens.
00:48:50.000 But what the sad part was is that I'd gas them, so I'd CO2 them.
00:48:56.000 And as I was doing this every day, it was like, fine, give me some mice.
00:48:59.000 I'm going to gas them.
00:49:00.000 I didn't care.
00:49:02.000 I mean, I was one of those, I don't know what you call it.
00:49:06.000 Monsters?
00:49:06.000 Here's the scary thing.
00:49:07.000 First of all, when I first started doing it, it was really hard.
00:49:10.000 And I felt really, really bad.
00:49:12.000 Like, tears.
00:49:13.000 Like, I was sad.
00:49:14.000 I was like, I can't do this.
00:49:16.000 You're not going to get your PhD.
00:49:18.000 I'm like, okay, I'll do it.
00:49:19.000 I'll do it.
00:49:19.000 Yeah.
00:49:20.000 So, it was hard for me at first.
00:49:22.000 I totally got used to it, where it was like nothing.
00:49:24.000 Like, I didn't even think twice.
00:49:25.000 I mean, I had to take a handful of them, put them in the little box, and I'd gas them.
00:49:29.000 I mean, it was...
00:49:30.000 I know.
00:49:31.000 That's so fucked up.
00:49:32.000 It is!
00:49:33.000 But, and here's the other, like, scary part, is that then I would have long periods of time I'm a very empathetic person, though, people.
00:49:41.000 I really am.
00:49:43.000 I'd have long periods of time when I didn't kill the mice, and then I'd have to go back there so months would go by, and then I'd have to go back and do it.
00:49:49.000 And all of a sudden, I was like, I can't do this.
00:49:53.000 And I couldn't watch them.
00:49:54.000 They'd start like...
00:49:55.000 Breathing, you know, and trying to gasp for air, and I just felt awful.
00:50:00.000 And so I'm just glad I don't do that anymore.
00:50:01.000 I moved on to humans.
00:50:03.000 I take their blood.
00:50:03.000 You take their blood.
00:50:04.000 But it's better for them that way.
00:50:06.000 It's better.
00:50:07.000 Yeah, you're helping them.
00:50:08.000 Yeah, so, you know, the mouse stuff, man, there was...
00:50:12.000 You, like, when you have to do something, and, you know, I was medical science.
00:50:16.000 I was doing cancer research.
00:50:17.000 I wasn't just, like, doing it for fun.
00:50:19.000 But it was definitely...
00:50:23.000 It's a strange feeling to feel that desensitized, sensitized.
00:50:26.000 I'm like, whoa, wait.
00:50:27.000 I've been doing this for four years.
00:50:29.000 Why am I all of a sudden caring about this again?
00:50:31.000 You just took a little break.
00:50:33.000 Yeah, because I was doing other experiments that didn't require that I had to kill mice and get their liver.
00:50:39.000 So would you recommend taking regular curcumin that you get from a regular vitamin store?
00:50:46.000 Do you think there's some benefit in it?
00:50:47.000 Yeah, absolutely.
00:50:49.000 But it's just not as much.
00:50:50.000 You're just not going to get as much because, first of all, you're not going to absorb as much of it.
00:50:54.000 And second of all, you're going to clear it away quickly.
00:50:59.000 Is there a better formula of resveratrol?
00:51:02.000 I know resveratrol, supposedly there's some of it in wine, which they were trying to correlate with the positive health benefits of drinking a glass of wine a day.
00:51:11.000 But as far as I understand, it's a small amount.
00:51:14.000 Yeah, so a five-ounce glass of wine has about two milligrams of resveratrol, which, if you're talking—oh, the study I talked about on monkeys, they were given, like, 480 milligrams.
00:51:24.000 Oh.
00:51:25.000 That's, you know, you're not going to, like— Yeah, for a monkey.
00:51:27.000 Yeah, for a monkey.
00:51:29.000 And you're not going to, like—so you're not going to, like, have that same effect.
00:51:31.000 And like I said, the 1,000 milligrams was for the clearing away—the autophagy, clearing away damaged cells.
00:51:36.000 But, you know, these are little chemicals—these are— Chemical compounds that are triggering something in our body and whether it's two milligrams or 400 milligrams, it's doing a little bit of something.
00:51:47.000 And so, you know, I wouldn't just throw my nose up.
00:51:50.000 I mean, you're not going to like live 30% longer because of it, because you drink wine, you know, but it's still, you're still getting some, you know?
00:51:58.000 Right.
00:51:58.000 So there's something to that.
00:52:00.000 There is.
00:52:01.000 There is something, but it's not- What does Bart Kreischer say he was drinking?
00:52:04.000 A box of wine.
00:52:05.000 He drank a box of wine at night, which they think is like eight bottles.
00:52:09.000 How did he not die of alcohol?
00:52:11.000 Some people have a variation in their gene where they're able to actually convert the alcohol to acetone and acetate, which is ketone.
00:52:22.000 So they actually get benefits from...
00:52:24.000 It's really interesting.
00:52:26.000 Really?
00:52:26.000 Yeah.
00:52:27.000 Whoa.
00:52:27.000 Don't tell that to Bert.
00:52:29.000 He'll use it as an excuse to keep drinking.
00:52:30.000 Well, clearly he's got something if he can drink that much wine and not...
00:52:34.000 Yeah.
00:52:34.000 When he was telling it to us, he was chalking it off like it was no big deal.
00:52:37.000 And we're all like, wait, what?
00:52:38.000 What the fuck?
00:52:39.000 Like a whole box?
00:52:40.000 Like even Brian was like a box.
00:52:42.000 Even Brian?
00:52:43.000 That's bad.
00:52:44.000 Yeah.
00:52:45.000 A box of wine?
00:52:46.000 Like a box of wine is for like a large family gathering.
00:52:49.000 Yeah.
00:52:50.000 Alcohol in high doses like that, it's not good.
00:52:55.000 You're going to start killing neurons.
00:52:58.000 It's not good.
00:52:59.000 You shouldn't do the binge where you're taking so much of it.
00:53:01.000 But having a five-ounce glass of wine with two milligrams of resveratrol may not be as bad.
00:53:07.000 And there's probably some health benefit as well to this, the mood-altering shift of the relaxing of having a glass of wine.
00:53:15.000 I've always felt like that's something that we shouldn't really look past.
00:53:20.000 Having a drink relaxes you.
00:53:23.000 And just whatever negative impact that alcohol has on your liver or the toxicity, isn't it kind of balanced out, at least in low doses, by the positive benefit that you get from...
00:53:37.000 It being a social lubricant, relaxing you, things along those lines?
00:53:41.000 It makes sense to me.
00:53:42.000 I mean, there are so many different conflicting studies out there with alcohol.
00:53:46.000 It's good for you.
00:53:46.000 It's bad.
00:53:47.000 It's good.
00:53:47.000 And I think it has a lot to do with genetics and just binge or what else you're eating and just all these other things.
00:53:53.000 But yeah, if someone drinks a glass of wine, let's say they're wound up all the time.
00:53:58.000 It's like...
00:53:59.000 We were talking about this before the podcast, but they're always like, the lion's coming to get me!
00:54:03.000 You know, it's like, you know, the lion's coming to get me.
00:54:06.000 I gotta run.
00:54:07.000 I gotta fight off this beast.
00:54:09.000 I mean, that's the stress response, right?
00:54:11.000 You're activating your sympathetic nervous system.
00:54:15.000 Which is good if you're actually out in Africa and there's a lion.
00:54:18.000 But if you're not, having that active all the time is actually...
00:54:22.000 It prevents some of the feedback loops that happen in your brain.
00:54:26.000 So when you have chronic stress like that, then you start to keep making...
00:54:32.000 Usually when you make stress hormone, your body's like, oh, I made this, that's enough.
00:54:35.000 It shuts it off.
00:54:36.000 So that goes away.
00:54:37.000 So you no longer shut it off and it just keeps going.
00:54:40.000 And that can cause you to either be super anxious, where you're like lions there all the time, or the opposite end of the spectrum where you're like totally...
00:54:47.000 You just don't care about anything...
00:54:51.000 Uh, you know, and, and you can be like depressed where it's like nothing excites you, you know, you just, you're indifferent.
00:54:57.000 So having a glass of wine, if that like chills you out and like, you're not so, you know, I, I think that seems like, you know, okay.
00:55:06.000 If you're having a glass of wine to, to chill out and, Yeah, it seems like chilling out is good.
00:55:10.000 But exercise would probably be a better way to do it.
00:55:12.000 Yeah.
00:55:14.000 Is there any benefit to stressing your body through alcohol?
00:55:17.000 Like as you were talking about these pesticides that plants produce, they stress your body, you have this response from exercise, things along those lines.
00:55:25.000 When I was young, I was really dumb, I thought that smoking cigarettes might have a good effect on your lungs because it's like lifting weight through your lungs because your lungs would be like, oh, I've got to process this stuff and it would make your lungs stronger.
00:55:38.000 Wasn't that, I think that was like what doctors believed.
00:55:42.000 Really?
00:55:43.000 Yeah, well at one point in time, I mean, I know that it was in that movie, The Aviator, the Leonardo DiCaprio movie.
00:55:50.000 I've seen that.
00:55:50.000 That's good.
00:55:51.000 No, no, no, that's not the one I'm thinking about.
00:55:52.000 I'm thinking of the one where he was a...
00:55:57.000 No, no.
00:55:59.000 No, where he played the asshole that ran the FBI, the guy who wore dresses.
00:56:09.000 Oh, Hoover.
00:56:10.000 Yeah, J. Edgar Hoover.
00:56:11.000 When he played J. Edgar Hoover when he was young, Leonardo DiCaprio in this scene was with his mom, and his mom was telling him, you know, that you're frail, you should listen to the doctor and smoke cigarettes.
00:56:23.000 Like, that was the thing that they used to, doctors used to prescribe cigarettes to people to, like, increase their vitality.
00:56:29.000 Well, I don't know about, I mean, I don't know what their explanation was, but nicotine, yeah.
00:56:35.000 Nicotine, I don't want to interrupt, but there is one thing that absolutely does happen from smoking cigarettes that does benefit A certain population of people.
00:56:43.000 Because when you put nicotine in your body, it totally normalizes something called sensory gating, which is what your brain does.
00:56:53.000 Sensory gating is your brain filtering out all this other information that's happening all the time.
00:57:00.000 Like, Jamie's sitting over there.
00:57:01.000 He's doing God knows what.
00:57:01.000 But I don't care.
00:57:02.000 I'm not paying attention because I'm talking to you.
00:57:05.000 There's noises out here.
00:57:06.000 There's smells.
00:57:07.000 So it's like your brain is able to focus in and not...
00:57:11.000 Keep all these inputs coming at once.
00:57:13.000 Well, there are people that have problems in sensory gating.
00:57:16.000 It's genetically related.
00:57:18.000 It's also there's certain dietary factors that can play a role where they cannot do that.
00:57:22.000 And so they're getting all this input all the time from everywhere.
00:57:25.000 So if they walk into a room with a bunch of people, they flip out.
00:57:29.000 It's like because they can hear all the conversation.
00:57:31.000 It's all coming in at once.
00:57:33.000 And so it's like sensory overload.
00:57:34.000 So a cigarette can negate that?
00:57:36.000 Nicotine negates it for 15 minutes, which is why some people probably are chronically smoking because after 15 minutes, man, they got to get that hit again or, you know, it's coming.
00:57:44.000 A lot of people that are schizophrenic have a sensory gating issue.
00:57:49.000 And so a lot of schizophrenics actually, I think, I'm...
00:57:52.000 This is me totally just throwing this out there.
00:57:54.000 I think that's likely why a lot of schizophrenics are chain smokers.
00:57:57.000 Because they're self-medicating.
00:57:59.000 That makes sense.
00:57:59.000 But I don't know.
00:58:00.000 I'm just...
00:58:01.000 That's my two cents.
00:58:02.000 We were talking about nicotine, though.
00:58:04.000 You're not talking about the actual act of smoking a cigarette.
00:58:06.000 No, I'm talking about nicotine.
00:58:06.000 Because you could take that in other forms.
00:58:08.000 Right.
00:58:08.000 And nicotine is prescribed...
00:58:10.000 Isn't it prescribed to certain heart patients?
00:58:11.000 Like, it doesn't have some sort of a benefit?
00:58:13.000 I don't know.
00:58:14.000 On heart function?
00:58:15.000 I don't know.
00:58:16.000 I feel like it does.
00:58:17.000 I feel like there's some sort of a medicinal benefit to nicotine itself, obviously not in a cigarette form.
00:58:23.000 See if you can find that.
00:58:24.000 Health benefits of nicotine.
00:58:26.000 Yeah.
00:58:27.000 But my dumb idea was that it was like it would stress out your lungs, it would make your lungs stronger.
00:58:32.000 Definitely stress them out.
00:58:33.000 Yeah, but is there any benefit like that with alcohol?
00:58:36.000 Like is there any, like stressing out your body from drinking, is there any robustness that would be a side effect of that?
00:58:43.000 So here's the thing.
00:58:45.000 With Anything that's hormetic.
00:58:48.000 So anything that is, the dose is very important.
00:58:53.000 You know, when you have something that is stressful on the body.
00:58:57.000 If you were to run all the time, all day, every day, and you didn't recover, you'd die.
00:59:02.000 If you were to sit in the sauna or cold, so if you were to take two kilograms of bok choy, you'd have some problems.
00:59:12.000 It's too much.
00:59:13.000 The things that are hormetic...
00:59:14.000 Two kilograms of bok choy would fuck you up?
00:59:16.000 There's a woman...
00:59:17.000 It's like four pounds of bok choy?
00:59:18.000 Do you know how much two kilograms is?
00:59:21.000 That's a lot of bok choy.
00:59:22.000 Yeah, what does that look like?
00:59:23.000 A lot.
00:59:24.000 A lot.
00:59:25.000 Well, a kilogram is 1.2 pounds?
00:59:28.000 Is that what it is?
00:59:29.000 I don't know, Jamie?
00:59:31.000 Google?
00:59:31.000 I think it's 1.2 pounds.
00:59:33.000 It sounds familiar.
00:59:35.000 So, 2 kilograms?
00:59:36.000 2 kilograms.
00:59:38.000 It says it's about a box.
00:59:40.000 A box?
00:59:40.000 Size of a whole box.
00:59:41.000 A box of what?
00:59:43.000 Like a big box.
00:59:44.000 Yeah, but that's not a real measurement.
00:59:47.000 I don't know what a box of box joys looks like.
00:59:50.000 That doesn't make any sense.
00:59:51.000 But what is a kilogram?
00:59:52.000 A kilogram is 1.2 pounds, right?
00:59:55.000 Or 2.2 pounds?
00:59:56.000 Yeah, is it 2.2?
00:59:57.000 Yeah, 2.2 pounds.
00:59:58.000 Yeah, it's 2.2.
00:59:59.000 Yeah.
01:00:00.000 2.2 pounds per...
01:00:01.000 So, 4 kilograms.
01:00:03.000 8 point...
01:00:04.000 What is that?
01:00:05.000 8.89 pounds of bok choy?
01:00:07.000 What is...
01:00:08.000 Just Google that.
01:00:09.000 What does that look like?
01:00:09.000 Yeah, Google 4 kilograms of...
01:00:12.000 Just kilograms to pounds.
01:00:13.000 4 kilograms to pounds.
01:00:14.000 People in Europe are like, you fucking idiot!
01:00:17.000 You don't even know the metric system!
01:00:19.000 You don't even know what the rest of the world uses!
01:00:21.000 You know what?
01:00:22.000 This is my response, is that...
01:00:25.000 We have Google for things like that.
01:00:26.000 8.8, yeah.
01:00:28.000 8.8.
01:00:28.000 It wasn't hard to get, even with my stupid brain.
01:00:31.000 So, that will kill you?
01:00:33.000 No, it won't kill you, but it might give you goiter.
01:00:35.000 Goiter?
01:00:36.000 Yeah.
01:00:36.000 Like, because...
01:00:38.000 What is goiter?
01:00:39.000 It could basically cause hypothyroid.
01:00:42.000 Whoa.
01:00:43.000 Yeah.
01:00:43.000 Really?
01:00:44.000 Yes.
01:00:44.000 That's crazy.
01:00:45.000 Well...
01:00:47.000 The thing about the isothiocyanates, which are in bok choy, is that they're anti-cancer.
01:00:51.000 They're good.
01:00:52.000 When you're eating your kale, and I'm talking two kilograms again, that's a lot.
01:00:58.000 Massive amount.
01:00:59.000 It's massive.
01:00:59.000 Nobody in their right mind would ever eat that much kale or broccoli or whatever, bok choy a day.
01:01:05.000 But if you did, the thing is that isothiocyanates can compete with iodine transport into the thyroid.
01:01:13.000 And so if all you're eating all day every day is bok choy, I think?
01:01:34.000 We're good to go.
01:01:50.000 I'm not sure that running 50 miles is actually that good.
01:01:54.000 That's pretty stressful.
01:01:56.000 It's not good for you.
01:01:56.000 You get the point.
01:01:58.000 With alcohol, it has been shown that in small doses, it can have a slight hormetic effect.
01:02:05.000 Like a shot?
01:02:05.000 In small doses.
01:02:07.000 Well, it depends.
01:02:08.000 I don't know if these studies have been done in humans yet.
01:02:10.000 Like Irish coffee?
01:02:11.000 Probably like a small glass of wine.
01:02:15.000 There is a slightly hormetic effect.
01:02:16.000 Now, keep in mind, there are other things that can regulate that.
01:02:21.000 People are different.
01:02:22.000 We all have different genes.
01:02:24.000 And so, for example, I cannot recover from a large dose of alcohol Like Dan can, because I have a certain variation in a gene that does not repair damage to neurons very well.
01:02:39.000 So there are other things to keep in mind, but yes, that has been shown in small doses, at least in animal models, like flies, worms, that small doses of alcohol can actually have a hormetic effect.
01:02:52.000 To actually define a chemical compound as hormetic, In science, the definition is there's a U-shaped curve.
01:03:01.000 So when you have just enough of it, you get a positive effect.
01:03:06.000 But when you go over that threshold, you start to have a negative effect.
01:03:10.000 And that's what stress...
01:03:12.000 When we're talking about good stress, we're not talking about exercising all day every day.
01:03:17.000 We're talking about exercising, pushing past and getting some of that Well, that's a huge issue with martial artists, with the fighters, because they always feel like if they do more, they will have more endurance, and they'll be able to perform better inside the octagon.
01:03:33.000 Or inside the ring or whatever, wrestling mat, whatever they're competing on.
01:03:37.000 And it becomes a real issue with people because overtraining is a giant factor in preparation.
01:03:43.000 Because they get to the point where their body can't recover from the work that it's done.
01:03:48.000 And their mind and their mental toughness and their discipline has actually ruined them.
01:03:53.000 Because they've gone too far.
01:03:54.000 They start getting chronic injuries.
01:03:56.000 It's a big issue.
01:03:56.000 Right.
01:03:57.000 You know, so there's that tipping point.
01:03:58.000 We have to realize, like, what is the right amount of work and the right amount of recovery?
01:04:04.000 Versus people who, they feel like, well, if you just push yourself further, your body will respond.
01:04:11.000 There's a lot of people that have had that attitude.
01:04:13.000 That if you can just, it'll be hard, you might feel overtrained in the beginning, but your body will compensate.
01:04:18.000 Your body will eventually upregulate and get ready for this increased workload that you've been demanding on it.
01:04:25.000 Yeah, prepare for war.
01:04:26.000 Well, I mean, there's some truth to that, you know, you do want to push yourself and your body will, you will have a strong stress response, but you have to recover.
01:04:35.000 You can't, you can't, you can't, if you, the dose is very important.
01:04:38.000 So if you push yourself beyond, it's just like, you're not going to have a recovery period, like you're not going to be able to.
01:04:45.000 Isn't it important then to build your base over a long period of time then?
01:04:51.000 Because you would build your endurance slowly, where you slowly increase the base, you make sure that your recovery is consistent, and then just keep doing it and monitoring it over a long period of time.
01:05:01.000 Then, once you have a very high base, then really ramp it up and then go through a long-term training camp.
01:05:07.000 That makes sense.
01:05:08.000 Yeah.
01:05:08.000 Nobody does that, though.
01:05:10.000 That makes sense.
01:05:11.000 Logically, that makes sense.
01:05:13.000 And even for some of these plant compounds, too, like in that resveratrol study and the monkeys, the first year those monkeys were actually given a smaller dose.
01:05:24.000 They were given 80 milligrams for the first year, and then the second year they were given 480 milligrams.
01:05:28.000 Very interesting.
01:05:30.000 And back to your resveratrol, I don't...
01:05:33.000 I don't know.
01:05:34.000 There's so many brands out there that are just utter crap.
01:05:38.000 They have filler and you think you're getting echinacea, but you're not.
01:05:42.000 You're getting some kind of magnesium steroid or something.
01:05:47.000 I'm interested in the resveratrol.
01:05:48.000 I'm interested in a lot of these other plant compounds.
01:05:51.000 It's one of the reasons why I like to eat a wide variety of plants.
01:05:55.000 Celery, parsley.
01:05:56.000 Oh, there's stuff in apple peels and in green tomatoes, so ursolic acids in apple skin and tomatadine in green tomatoes.
01:06:03.000 They actually inhibit a gene in your skeletal muscle called ATF4. That gene actually prevents protein synthesis from happening, so it stops your muscle cells from making proteins.
01:06:15.000 So inhibiting that means more protein synthesis.
01:06:17.000 And that's been shown in mice, like if they're given really high dose, like 0.27% rosalic acid and 0.05% tomatidine, they can increase their muscle growth by 30% over what they would do if they didn't have it.
01:06:29.000 That's insane.
01:06:30.000 30%.
01:06:31.000 But they are giving them a huge dose.
01:06:33.000 Still, that's amazing.
01:06:34.000 It's amazing.
01:06:35.000 30% is like...
01:06:36.000 Steroids can't do that.
01:06:38.000 Well, these are now out in the market as...
01:06:44.000 Nutraceuticals, I guess you call them.
01:06:45.000 Muscle builders.
01:06:46.000 Yeah, they're all into it.
01:06:47.000 But you can eat.
01:06:48.000 I like to eat apples.
01:06:50.000 I like to make...
01:06:51.000 Actually, I don't make it.
01:06:52.000 I buy it already made.
01:06:53.000 But it's tomatillo sauce.
01:06:56.000 Have you ever tried that?
01:06:57.000 Yeah.
01:06:57.000 It's really good on eggs.
01:06:58.000 I put them on eggs and...
01:07:00.000 Every time I'm eating it, I'm like, ah, muscles.
01:07:03.000 Muscles.
01:07:04.000 How bizarre.
01:07:06.000 Is resveratrol something you should take with food?
01:07:09.000 Empty stomach?
01:07:09.000 How should you take that?
01:07:10.000 I don't, you know, because I've been so skeptical of the field for so long, I've not supplemented with it.
01:07:16.000 I mean, I did for a little while.
01:07:19.000 I'm looking back into it just because now I'm interested.
01:07:22.000 Now I'm very interested.
01:07:24.000 There's also someone pointed out to me because I did a post on this and they said that resveratrol Resveratrol was shown to negate some of the high-intensity interval training gains or something.
01:07:37.000 I didn't read the study.
01:07:37.000 I don't know exactly what that means.
01:07:39.000 Resveratrol has been shown to actually cause mitochondrial biogenesis and shift muscle fibers to type 1, which are more endurance.
01:07:49.000 The thing is that resveratrol is not like an antioxidant.
01:07:51.000 It's not like taking vitamin E. The difference between taking an antioxidant or even taking, like, ibuprofen.
01:07:58.000 Like, these studies have been done where they've shown that taking, like, ibuprofen or taking supplemental vitamin E, you know, after a workout or while you're working out can blunt some of the positive benefits from it.
01:08:10.000 And the reason is because when you exercise, you are, you know, you're causing stress.
01:08:15.000 Like we talked about, you're causing inflammation, you're causing, you know, reactive oxygen species to And this is very important for the stress response.
01:08:26.000 That's why you have a positive effect.
01:08:28.000 But if you're taking something like vitamin E, vitamin E actually, it's like a sponge.
01:08:32.000 It goes around and stops.
01:08:34.000 It's like, oh, here's a reactive oxygen species or an inflammatory, and it just stops it.
01:08:38.000 It socks it up.
01:08:40.000 And NSAIDs, they stop the inflammatory mediators from being produced.
01:08:47.000 Resveratrol, curcumin, you know, these plant insecticides, they don't work that way.
01:08:52.000 They actually are stressful themselves, and so they activate, you know, these anti-inflammatory genes, antioxidant genes, all this good stuff.
01:09:00.000 So it's very different, you know, than taking an antioxidant or an anti-inflammatory.
01:09:08.000 Those NSAIDs are...
01:09:10.000 They're not really good news, in my opinion.
01:09:13.000 They've been shown to increase heart attack and stroke risk.
01:09:16.000 What has been shown?
01:09:18.000 NSAIDs.
01:09:18.000 NSAIDs?
01:09:19.000 Yeah.
01:09:19.000 There's an FDA warning label on every ibuprofen bottle that you can buy in the market.
01:09:24.000 It's that bad for you?
01:09:26.000 Well, it's non-steroidal anti-inflammatory, right?
01:09:28.000 That's what ibuprofen is?
01:09:30.000 Ibuprofen, yeah.
01:09:31.000 The thing with some of these, it depends on the type of NSAID, but with ibuprofen and other ones, so ibuprofen targets, the way it's an anti-inflammatory is it targets one of these enzymes called COX-2.
01:09:48.000 COX-2 makes leukotrenes and thromboxanes, which cause platelets to aggregate.
01:09:57.000 They also cause inflammation.
01:09:58.000 It makes this other chemical that's involved in pain.
01:10:01.000 So when you stop that enzyme from doing that, then you're going to have less inflammation.
01:10:06.000 Inflammation causes pain, right?
01:10:08.000 So you're going to have a pain-relieving effect.
01:10:13.000 The problem is, is that when you inhibit, again, we get back to biology and feedback loops and, you know, our biology, we've, even though this enzyme COX-2 causes inflammation, it's also...
01:10:28.000 And anti-inflammatory at the same time.
01:10:30.000 COX-2 also is important for making sure platelets don't aggregate too much.
01:10:36.000 So at the same time it's doing something that's making them aggregate, it's also like, okay, let's keep this in check.
01:10:40.000 Let's make sure it doesn't go overboard.
01:10:42.000 And it also makes something else that's important for relaxing the smooth muscle cells in your blood vessels.
01:10:51.000 And also it releases nitric oxide.
01:10:53.000 So when you block that enzyme, you're blocking the inflammation, blocking pain, but then the smooth muscle cells become stiff and you make less nitrogen oxide, which is important to relax blood vessels.
01:11:05.000 And that can be bad if you are stiffening your vessels a lot and you have plaques.
01:11:11.000 The plaques can then, you know, kind of...
01:11:13.000 I have a friend who takes that shit every morning.
01:11:16.000 He runs a lot and he takes it every morning.
01:11:19.000 And he'll take it before he runs.
01:11:21.000 So he probably...
01:11:23.000 Oh, that's not...
01:11:24.000 First of all, I'll send you the study where it blunted the gains from exercise.
01:11:28.000 Like, it really is...
01:11:29.000 I'm talking to you, Cameron Haynes.
01:11:30.000 Get off that shit.
01:11:31.000 Yeah.
01:11:31.000 I mean, women...
01:11:32.000 So there was like eight different clinical trials that were done.
01:11:35.000 And this is what made the FDA put a warning label on all ibuprofen bottles is because chronic use increased the risk of stroke and heart attack twofold.
01:11:43.000 And there was a study that was published a few months ago that was done in animals that showed the mechanism.
01:11:49.000 So it showed exactly what was wrong with inhibiting COX-2.
01:11:53.000 I've been very concerned because I know that like almost every female that I know takes it like once a month.
01:12:00.000 They'll take it.
01:12:01.000 Once a month is still an issue?
01:12:03.000 If you're chronically taking it every month, you're taking it for a week, one week out of every month, and you're taking it every month.
01:12:09.000 So really it should be reserved for a pretty significant injury where you're in real pain and you need...
01:12:15.000 Yes.
01:12:15.000 In my opinion, look, I don't know, maybe taking it one week out of the...
01:12:18.000 I don't...
01:12:18.000 Chronic use, and this was done in, you know, there's eight different clinical studies.
01:12:23.000 Chronic use, to me, chronic use is taking it every month.
01:12:26.000 So once a month would be, I mean...
01:12:29.000 So if you get so drunk that you're fucked up and you're hungover and wrecked once a month, that's chronic use then?
01:12:36.000 People take that for a hangover?
01:12:38.000 Yeah.
01:12:38.000 No, if you're getting wrecked, if you're drinking a lot of alcohol once a month, would you consider that chronic use?
01:12:45.000 Yeah.
01:12:46.000 Once a month?
01:12:46.000 Yeah.
01:12:46.000 See, most people wouldn't.
01:12:47.000 Most people think chronic use is like every weekend.
01:12:49.000 No.
01:12:50.000 So once a month is enough that you don't have enough time to recover from the damage, is that what you're saying?
01:12:55.000 I think that once a month, if you're going overboard like that, to me, I don't really have any evidence that once a month.
01:13:03.000 In fact, I know there have been some studies that have to look into that.
01:13:06.000 I would think that going out and binge drinking once a month is probably not the best thing.
01:13:11.000 You know, you can handle it more when you're younger, but especially as you get older, our capacities to handle that type of stress are decreased.
01:13:19.000 Right.
01:13:20.000 You know, so to me, especially as you're getting older, you're probably not, you're probably doing more damage by doing that.
01:13:25.000 What I was getting at, would you be as concerned with someone taking ibuprofen once a month as you would be someone binge drinking once a month?
01:13:34.000 I'm concerned about ibuprofen, but I don't know.
01:13:38.000 I don't know, actually.
01:13:40.000 I've never heard anybody talk about negative effects of ibuprofen.
01:13:44.000 Yeah, ibuprofen, the selective COX-2 inhibitors are even worse, which are, I don't know the brand names for them.
01:13:51.000 Ibuprofen targets COX-2, but it also targets COX-1.
01:13:54.000 So it's not as bad as the selective COX-2-only inhibitors.
01:13:59.000 But this was big news.
01:14:01.000 It's like, you know, the fact that even the...
01:14:03.000 The FDA even finally was like, wait a minute, something's going on here.
01:14:07.000 We gotta at least put a warning label on these ibuprofen bottles.
01:14:09.000 And when did they start doing that?
01:14:12.000 Probably like eight months ago, seven or eight months ago.
01:14:17.000 Wow.
01:14:17.000 That's very recent when you consider the amount of time that people have been taking ibuprofen.
01:14:21.000 Yes.
01:14:21.000 And I've been very concerned about my mom.
01:14:23.000 I actually got my mom this Mariva.
01:14:26.000 Here it is.
01:14:26.000 FDA drug study.
01:14:28.000 Wow.
01:14:29.000 This July.
01:14:30.000 Strengthens warning that non-aspirin, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory can cause heart attacks or strokes.
01:14:37.000 Okay.
01:14:38.000 You're so used to saying things like NSAIDs.
01:14:41.000 Most people are like, what the fuck?
01:14:42.000 Sorry.
01:14:42.000 Thanks for reminding me.
01:14:44.000 No worries.
01:14:44.000 The US Food and Drug Administration is strengthening existing label warnings that non-aspirin, non-steroidal, anti-inflammatory drugs increase the chance of heart attack or stroke.
01:14:55.000 Wow.
01:14:56.000 Based on our comprehensive review of safety information, we are requiring updates to drug labels of all prescription non-steroidal anti-inflammatory.
01:15:05.000 Now, that says prescription.
01:15:06.000 Oh, that says prescription.
01:15:07.000 But ibuprofen is ibuprofen.
01:15:10.000 So if you take a regular pill that has 200 milligrams, you buy a prescription that's 800 milligrams.
01:15:15.000 I always take four.
01:15:16.000 So four is 800 anyway.
01:15:19.000 So if you take four Advil's, it's the same as a prescription non-steroidal anti-inflammatory.
01:15:24.000 If I ever take it, which I rarely do, I always just...
01:15:27.000 I'm a dummy.
01:15:28.000 I always just go for the full dose.
01:15:30.000 Dude, I've been...
01:15:30.000 So I got my mom.
01:15:31.000 It seems to be a big problem for women because, like I said, they take it for menstrual pain.
01:15:37.000 So they're prone to rely on that.
01:15:40.000 And every woman I know...
01:15:42.000 Relies on it.
01:15:43.000 It's like, you know what?
01:15:44.000 A little bit of pain is okay.
01:15:47.000 I haven't taken ibuprofen, with the exception of if there's some surgery or something where I'm required to take it.
01:15:55.000 But I haven't taken it in...
01:15:59.000 Six years.
01:16:01.000 Like, I avoid it.
01:16:02.000 And I just deal with pain, you know, menstrual pain.
01:16:05.000 And other pain, I just don't...
01:16:07.000 It's not that big of a deal.
01:16:09.000 You start to get used to it.
01:16:10.000 But I got my mom this Mariva, this curcumin phosphatidylcholine complex.
01:16:16.000 And I told her, I was like, take four of these a day, which is two grams.
01:16:19.000 She's got arthritis and all sorts of chronic pain.
01:16:21.000 And I have to...
01:16:23.000 It's hard for her.
01:16:23.000 I'm trying to, like, get her on the right diet and all that.
01:16:25.000 But...
01:16:26.000 Compliance is an issue, but if she starts to notice some changes with something easy, then it's like, oh, I do see this kind of working, you know, so that's kind of my goal.
01:16:34.000 But she said it's been helping with her pain, and also she's more mobile and stuff.
01:16:40.000 Just from the curcumin.
01:16:42.000 I'm actually like, I'm thinking the, it's the, so there was a study, did I talk about this study that was done that compared it to ibuprofen?
01:16:51.000 So this clinical study that compared people that took the Meriva, curcumin, in the phosphatidylcholine complex.
01:16:58.000 They took two grams a day, and it was comparable, the anti-pain relief was comparable to 800 milligrams of ibuprofen or 1,000 milligrams of acetaminophen.
01:17:09.000 Acetaminophen can be bad for the liver.
01:17:11.000 It can cause liver toxicity.
01:17:13.000 That's pretty awesome that it was comparable.
01:17:15.000 Yes.
01:17:16.000 And comparable as far as the results through subjective...
01:17:20.000 Um...
01:17:23.000 How did they measure it?
01:17:24.000 I don't remember.
01:17:25.000 Was it inflammatory markers or was it like a subjective?
01:17:27.000 I don't think so.
01:17:28.000 Other ones have measured inflammatory markers with that curcumin phosphatidylcholine, but I don't think this particular study did.
01:17:35.000 I think it was subjective, but they didn't know what they were getting.
01:17:38.000 It was like double-blind controlled, so they were getting something.
01:17:42.000 So it's just a matter of them on a 1 to 10, how much relief did you get, that kind of thing?
01:17:47.000 I don't know.
01:17:48.000 I have to look back at the study.
01:17:49.000 I don't remember.
01:17:50.000 It's most likely subjective, though.
01:17:52.000 I have a hard time believing you don't remember anything.
01:17:54.000 You have so much shit stored up in your brain.
01:17:56.000 I do.
01:17:57.000 It comes flying out.
01:17:59.000 Where do you have room for friends' names and birthdays and stuff?
01:18:02.000 Is it even in there?
01:18:02.000 Google Calendar.
01:18:06.000 The other question that I wanted to make sure that I asked you, because we talked about this through email, was I know that you've done a lot of work on the benefits of sauna and the heat shock proteins from sauna, and I was asking you, because I recently, not recently, but over the last year, I really got heavily into hot yoga,
01:18:23.000 and I'm like, I wonder if that's what's going on here, because I leave these classes, and I swear to God, a fucking asteroid could hit my car, and I'd be like, well, I guess I don't have a car anymore.
01:18:34.000 Sat Nam, Namaste.
01:18:36.000 You get so chilled out from doing that.
01:18:39.000 There's something going on that's akin to some sort of a drug response.
01:18:44.000 Yeah.
01:18:45.000 I think I talked about this before.
01:18:48.000 Because when you're hot, when you're doing hot yoga, you're releasing dynorphin.
01:18:53.000 The reason you release dynorphin is because it cools the body.
01:18:56.000 And your body's like...
01:18:57.000 When you're heating the body, your body tries to cool itself.
01:19:00.000 When you're cooling the body, the body tries to heat itself, right?
01:19:02.000 Yeah.
01:19:03.000 So this is what's happening.
01:19:04.000 When you're doing the hot yoga, you're making dynorphin.
01:19:07.000 Dynorphin, so while you're doing it, it's kind of like physically uncomfortable.
01:19:10.000 You're holding these poses and you're like, ah, you know, it's hot.
01:19:14.000 But when you get out, because of the whole effect on the mu opioid receptor, you have more of them.
01:19:18.000 That endorphin that you released or that endorphin you're going to release an hour later when you see your kids or whatever good thing happens, man, it's going to be like awesome.
01:19:26.000 It's going to feel really good.
01:19:28.000 No, it's incredible.
01:19:29.000 Yeah.
01:19:29.000 It's incredible.
01:19:30.000 That's what got me into the sauna in the first place when I was in graduate school.
01:19:34.000 Me waking up once a week and screaming and flying across the room.
01:19:39.000 Punching mirrors and shit.
01:19:40.000 I mean, I literally broke a mirror with my butt.
01:19:44.000 Wow.
01:19:44.000 And I was injured.
01:19:45.000 Dude, I was injured for like- Wait a minute.
01:19:47.000 Where was the mirror?
01:19:48.000 It was, like, one of those mirrors that you, like, buy at Target, and it's, like, you can, like, a full-body mirror to see.
01:19:53.000 Oh, so you jumped out of the bed and, like, threw yourself at it?
01:19:56.000 Well, we had it, like, against the wall, but it, like, wasn't hung on the wall, so it was, like, leaning, you know, because cheap and whatever, just busy.
01:20:04.000 Whatever.
01:20:04.000 It's serving a function.
01:20:06.000 I can see myself.
01:20:07.000 So I, like, it was kind of close to the bed, so I, like, flew off the bed and, like, hit the mirror, like, with my butt and broke it.
01:20:15.000 And I was injured for, like...
01:20:17.000 It was like two months.
01:20:18.000 I couldn't run.
01:20:19.000 I couldn't do...
01:20:20.000 I couldn't do squats.
01:20:21.000 I couldn't...
01:20:22.000 I was like...
01:20:22.000 Did you get cut from the mirror?
01:20:24.000 Is that what you're saying?
01:20:24.000 By injury?
01:20:25.000 No.
01:20:25.000 I like...
01:20:26.000 Muscle.
01:20:27.000 Something.
01:20:27.000 Tendon.
01:20:27.000 I don't know.
01:20:28.000 Dude, I don't know.
01:20:29.000 I have no idea what I did.
01:20:30.000 All from sleep.
01:20:31.000 All from anxiety, yes.
01:20:33.000 Wow, that's so crazy.
01:20:34.000 But you can see why, like, when I discovered the sauna, I was like, wow, this is...
01:20:40.000 Because I would go...
01:20:41.000 I would go to the sauna.
01:20:42.000 I lived across the street from the YMCA. And so the YMCA has a sauna.
01:20:47.000 And I would wake up in the morning and I'd go work out or do the sauna, both, you know?
01:20:52.000 So I'd go and I'd sit in the sauna for like 30 to 45 minutes.
01:20:56.000 I mean, I was pushing it.
01:20:58.000 I was so miserable.
01:20:59.000 It was hot.
01:21:00.000 I mean, there were times where I would like stay in there for 45 minutes, I'm not recommending people do this.
01:21:05.000 I'm just telling you what I've experienced.
01:21:07.000 And I'd get out for five minutes, and then I'd go back in.
01:21:09.000 So I was like, I just pushed it.
01:21:11.000 And I would go into the lab, and it didn't matter who was stressing me out, who was telling me what to do what, or if my experiments were failing.
01:21:19.000 And I was like, oh my god, six months of work down the drain!
01:21:23.000 I didn't care.
01:21:24.000 I was like, oh, okay.
01:21:25.000 I'll have to start over.
01:21:26.000 I'll have to rethink this.
01:21:29.000 That's when I looked, and I was like...
01:21:31.000 Something's going on.
01:21:32.000 Yeah.
01:21:33.000 Something's going on.
01:21:33.000 I gotta figure it out.
01:21:34.000 I want to know.
01:21:35.000 And that's when I started going into the brain effects on the sauna.
01:21:38.000 Everyone always focuses on the detoxification and all that.
01:21:41.000 I was like, dude, something's happening in my brain.
01:21:43.000 I don't know why I'm saying dude all the time.
01:21:45.000 It's like a nervous thing.
01:21:46.000 Dude, do you not usually do that?
01:21:50.000 Not really.
01:21:51.000 Not all the time.
01:21:51.000 I'll say dude, but not like...
01:21:53.000 You're over-duding today?
01:21:54.000 I'm over-duding.
01:21:55.000 You're wired.
01:21:56.000 You're fired up.
01:21:58.000 So do you think that a similar effect is happening when you're doing hot yoga, even though it's not as hot as the sauna?
01:22:04.000 It's 90 minutes at 104 degrees and you're doing physical activity.
01:22:08.000 You're straining.
01:22:10.000 Anything that's causing you to sweat...
01:22:12.000 It's going to cause you to release dynorphin because you're overheating, right?
01:22:18.000 That's the way your sweat is supposed to help you cool.
01:22:20.000 So you're also releasing dynorphin.
01:22:22.000 There hasn't been a study on hot yoga.
01:22:24.000 I get this question a lot.
01:22:26.000 There hasn't been a study on steam rooms.
01:22:30.000 There's been a couple of studies on hot baths or jacuzzis, but not looking at the brain, looking at other things.
01:22:39.000 Personally, if you just think about the mechanisms, I think that it's very likely, if you're pushing yourself to sweat, if you feel uncomfortable, then you're doing the right thing.
01:22:49.000 You're releasing dynorphin, you're getting the heat shock proteins, you're getting all that good stuff.
01:22:54.000 It makes sense.
01:22:55.000 Yeah.
01:22:56.000 Yeah.
01:22:56.000 So it is very addicting.
01:22:58.000 It's also part of the reason why exercise can become addicting.
01:23:01.000 People always attribute it to the endorphin release.
01:23:04.000 I actually think it has a lot to do also with the dynorphin.
01:23:07.000 The pain you experience, the discomfort you experience is very important because you're actually then having that hormetic...
01:23:15.000 You can almost think of it as a hormetic response because the discomfort is what's causing...
01:23:22.000 We're good to go.
01:23:30.000 We're good to go.
01:23:42.000 Yep.
01:23:42.000 Yep.
01:23:43.000 Like this morning, I woke up and I was like, I have to go to the gym.
01:23:48.000 I have to go and I have to like, I got to like push it.
01:23:51.000 And I was running, I was doing sprinting on the treadmill.
01:23:54.000 Usually I usually sprint like the last end of my run, but I was just sprinting and I was like, as I was doing it, I was like, oh, this sucks.
01:24:02.000 This sucks, but I have to do it because my brain is going to help me, the dynorphin and also the norepinephrine.
01:24:09.000 The norepinephrine, which you release when you exercise.
01:24:12.000 You release a lot of it in the cold.
01:24:13.000 I took a cold shower too.
01:24:15.000 Cold shower was pretty good as well.
01:24:17.000 Because the cold also...
01:24:20.000 You release norepinephrine when you're exposed to cold because norepinephrine causes vasodilation.
01:24:28.000 And so when you have vasodilation, you actually are losing less heat.
01:24:34.000 I always take cold showers after hot yoga.
01:24:39.000 We're good to go.
01:24:57.000 There was a guy named Bob Caffarella that I used to do Taekwondo with and this guy in the middle of January would take cold showers and he'd say that it's good for the spirit and he was like the only guy that would do it.
01:25:06.000 Everybody would just stand there and watch and Bob's gonna go in the shower and he would go in the shower by himself and obviously by himself.
01:25:12.000 We're going in the shower with him.
01:25:14.000 But this guy would take these cold showers, and I couldn't imagine why anybody would put themselves through something like that.
01:25:19.000 But I guess he kind of knew, even back then, there was some sort of a benefit to standing in that freezing cold water, not just mentally, as far as your discipline and your self-control, to be able to stand there and force yourself to do something like that, to have that sort of autonomy over your body like that,
01:25:35.000 but also because there's all these different releases, these powerful Endorphin releases that you're getting from that.
01:25:43.000 Yeah, it feels good.
01:25:44.000 It feels really good.
01:25:45.000 Is there any danger in going from say hot yoga class to cryotherapy?
01:25:52.000 I Would love to know the answer to that.
01:25:56.000 So I've I've recently experienced I've gone from a really hot sauna like Crazy hot.
01:26:04.000 I mean, it was like 180 degrees Fahrenheit.
01:26:06.000 180?
01:26:07.000 Yeah, I had to wear one of those hats.
01:26:09.000 It was crazy hot, like the hottest I've ever experienced.
01:26:13.000 So I went, and I was with an acquaintance of mine, and then I went directly into an ice bath, and I did four rounds of this.
01:26:21.000 Whoa.
01:26:23.000 And it, like, the experience itself was amazing.
01:26:27.000 Like, I felt really, really good.
01:26:31.000 Really good.
01:26:31.000 After it's over.
01:26:32.000 Euphoric.
01:26:33.000 And during.
01:26:34.000 Really?
01:26:35.000 Well, once you go in the ice bath and you go back into the sauna, like, and you're in a 180 degree Fahrenheit sauna, it actually feels like room temperature.
01:26:43.000 And it's kind of like, whoa.
01:26:46.000 There's something kind of just cool about it.
01:26:49.000 Like, you just, you feel really, really good.
01:26:52.000 There were points when I started to get a little lightheaded and spinny.
01:26:58.000 You did that with your hand.
01:26:59.000 You know, where I was kind of spinny and maybe low blood pressure, low blood glucose.
01:27:04.000 I don't know.
01:27:05.000 Something like that.
01:27:06.000 But...
01:27:08.000 I'm really wanting to know, and I have to look into the literature.
01:27:12.000 You know, I just recently put out a report and a podcast on cryotherapy and the benefits of cold.
01:27:17.000 But I really was hoping to find more on going from hot to cold.
01:27:22.000 Because mostly, one, I felt so good.
01:27:24.000 And the other thing it did is it reset my circadian rhythm completely.
01:27:27.000 I went to bed at like 9.30 and I slept like a baby.
01:27:31.000 How do you think it did that?
01:27:33.000 I don't know.
01:27:34.000 I think that there's something...
01:27:36.000 I don't know if it was the hot cold or just the cold.
01:27:40.000 So I did this around 6 o'clock.
01:27:43.000 So it was like right before bedtime.
01:27:46.000 But cold does...
01:27:48.000 There is a regulation of when your body starts to cool itself and it cools itself right before sleep.
01:27:54.000 Melatonin plays a role in that.
01:27:55.000 When you make melatonin, it actually starts to cool the body a little bit as well.
01:28:00.000 I really don't know, Joe.
01:28:01.000 I was trying to figure it out.
01:28:02.000 People aren't doing studies on it, but it was very real, and I experienced it.
01:28:06.000 And is there a difference between doing cold before you go to bed and doing a sauna before you go to bed, as far as the results?
01:28:12.000 Doing the sauna sometimes can actually immediately keep you up, but also it affects REM sleep, and that's been shown in piglets as well.
01:28:22.000 And Dan swears he would have all sorts of lucid dreams.
01:28:26.000 I don't really remember that aspect of it, but it does seem to affect sleep.
01:28:32.000 So lucid dreams from, like, the heat shock proteins?
01:28:34.000 The sauna.
01:28:35.000 Probably not.
01:28:36.000 Maybe something else going on in the brain.
01:28:38.000 You also do release norepinephrine from heat.
01:28:41.000 Anything that's...
01:28:42.000 When you're, like, stressing your body, when you're doing your workout good enough, like any sort of stress.
01:28:47.000 Also, stimulation, like novelty, releases norepinephrine.
01:28:51.000 And that, you know...
01:28:52.000 Maybe acetylcholine is being released.
01:28:54.000 I don't know.
01:28:57.000 Acetylcholine, it does have some sort of a positive effect on dreaming.
01:29:01.000 Right.
01:29:02.000 Yeah.
01:29:03.000 A lot of people report really intense lucid dreams from taking a lot of different nootropics, but particularly choline.
01:29:09.000 Someone was telling me about galantamine because I was talking about it before and someone was like, oh, this causes lucid dreams.
01:29:15.000 I wouldn't have known that.
01:29:17.000 But there's some aspect to it.
01:29:21.000 I've heard that from 5-HTP as well.
01:29:22.000 5-HTP may be beneficial to lucid dreaming.
01:29:27.000 That's strange because serotonin in the brain takes you out of REM sleep.
01:29:36.000 Serotonin does.
01:29:36.000 Takes you out.
01:29:37.000 So if you were going to take 5-HTP, you should take it in the morning then.
01:29:41.000 I don't know what the whole half-life and all that.
01:29:44.000 I mean, 5-HTP has to then get into your brain and then be converted to serotonin.
01:29:49.000 I don't know.
01:29:50.000 So it might actually be good to take it at night and then by the morning rolls around, it's done converting it?
01:29:55.000 I don't know.
01:29:55.000 I don't know.
01:29:56.000 Okay.
01:29:56.000 Sorry.
01:29:59.000 What would it take to do some sort of a study, like the study that has been done on the sauna for something like hot yoga?
01:30:07.000 How would you do that?
01:30:09.000 Let's see.
01:30:10.000 It depends on what you want to measure.
01:30:12.000 So I think if you want to look at heat shock proteins, you could look at them in blood cells.
01:30:20.000 So you could measure them in blood cells.
01:30:21.000 You could measure norepinephrine.
01:30:25.000 There's actually a biomarker of norepinephrine that is called salivary alpha amylase, and it's released in saliva.
01:30:34.000 That would be a marker.
01:30:36.000 If you're pushing your workout hard enough, you'll release more of that alpha amylase.
01:30:41.000 So more norepinephrine.
01:30:42.000 So you can measure that.
01:30:44.000 And then HSPs.
01:30:46.000 So you just have to have volunteers and then sauna.
01:30:49.000 Then you have to have a lab.
01:30:50.000 People that are going to take the blood.
01:30:53.000 You have to have physicians involved.
01:30:55.000 And then you have to have people that are going to...
01:30:59.000 Isolate and look at the protein.
01:31:01.000 Maybe even looking at gene expression would be cheaper.
01:31:04.000 I'm doing something similar but not with sauna.
01:31:06.000 I've been involved in a clinical trial with blueberries.
01:31:09.000 Actually, another one of those plant hormetic compounds, there's another one in blueberries called anthocyanins, which is really, really...
01:31:16.000 And blueberries contain a small amount of resveratrol, you were saying?
01:31:19.000 Yeah, they contain about 10% of what a grape skin has.
01:31:23.000 So...
01:31:24.000 The blueberries, what's really good in blueberries is called anthocyanins.
01:31:27.000 And anthocyanins are produced as a response.
01:31:30.000 You know, they're a plant insecticide.
01:31:34.000 They actually, like, they bind to a certain gene.
01:31:38.000 The anthocyanin itself recognizes, like, a little sequence of DNA and binds to this gene and, like, turns it on.
01:31:44.000 And this gene is called NRF2, and it's like a master regulator of all these, like, really good DNA repair enzymes.
01:31:52.000 Antioxidant enzymes, anti-inflammatory, all these good things.
01:31:56.000 And so I've been involved in a clinical trial for the past two years, maybe two and a half years now, where my colleagues and I, we've been looking, we've been taking blood from people that are, they're obese, their BMI is about 28 or above.
01:32:14.000 They're obese, they're insulin- 28 is obese?
01:32:17.000 Well, they also measure...
01:32:18.000 No, I mean, BMI is...
01:32:20.000 30 is actually obese.
01:32:21.000 We moved the BMI down to 28 because it was like we weren't getting enough people.
01:32:26.000 30 is technically considered obese.
01:32:28.000 Wow.
01:32:29.000 A lot of obese people then.
01:32:32.000 A lot of people are 30, right?
01:32:34.000 You have to consider BMI is not a really good measure of obesity because people that are very muscular and short may also have a high BMI. So you have to also look at waist circumference and other factors, which they are doing.
01:32:48.000 But there are a lot of obese people.
01:33:10.000 Yeah.
01:33:12.000 A freeze-dried blueberry powder that's equivalent to two cups of blueberries.
01:33:16.000 And it's got lots of anthocyanins and all this other stuff that's in the blueberries.
01:33:20.000 And the other half is getting a placebo drink, which is blue looking, and they put sugar in it, which is...
01:33:26.000 But you can't give someone a placebo and not taste like blueberry.
01:33:30.000 Right.
01:33:31.000 Is there any benefit to eating actual blueberries versus the freeze-dried powder?
01:33:35.000 Of course.
01:33:35.000 Yeah, you're getting the fiber.
01:33:37.000 You know, you're getting...
01:33:39.000 Probably that's the main thing, the fiber.
01:33:42.000 And who knows what other compounds it may be not...
01:33:45.000 Maybe destroyed somewhat by the freeze-dry.
01:33:47.000 I don't really know.
01:33:48.000 Yeah, that's what I would be confused about.
01:33:49.000 I've always been confused about that.
01:33:50.000 When you see various freeze-dried, you know, anything.
01:33:55.000 Right.
01:33:55.000 Or any sort of dried, powdered, anything.
01:33:58.000 I always wonder, like, how much of that are you actually getting?
01:34:00.000 Like, how much of the actual benefit is lost in this turning into a pill?
01:34:06.000 Yeah, so there's definitely some things that are lost.
01:34:09.000 But the specific things that I'm interested in, like the anthocyanins, are there.
01:34:14.000 But so what I've been looking at, there's other people that I'm working with that are looking at, you know, markers of inflammation, glucose response, like all the metabolic parameters.
01:34:23.000 I'm specifically looking at people's damage to their DNA. So like we get white blood cells and they're frozen down and then I look at the DNA and the white blood cells and see how much damage there is.
01:34:35.000 I do it at baseline, so before they start the blueberry powders.
01:34:38.000 And these people have a lot of damage because they're obese.
01:34:40.000 Obesity accelerates damage to DNA. Damage to DNA causes all sorts of problems, but eventually it leads to cancer.
01:34:47.000 And people that are obese have a two-fold increased risk of multiple cancers.
01:34:51.000 There's this ridiculous article that I read where it's talking about the positive benefits of being overweight where people are trying to justify being overweight and they were Talking about there's a certain illnesses that people recover from better if they're they're overweight and they were there's very few very strange examples they were using to try to justify being overweight and And the article was also partially in response
01:35:21.000 to quote-unquote fat shaming.
01:35:23.000 And I'm like, boy, this is just such a weird justification.
01:35:27.000 It's so bizarre that your very biology, the thing that gets you through life, that people are so intent on receiving mouth pleasure.
01:35:37.000 Which is all it is.
01:35:38.000 I mean, that's what you're doing.
01:35:39.000 You're shoveling food in your mouth.
01:35:40.000 You're getting mouth pleasure, and then you're getting the response, the physical response to whatever sugars or anything that your body and your gut bacteria are craving.
01:35:49.000 But so much into it that you're broadcasting it in the form of this really misleading article that was just designed to make you feel better for being overweight and to justify these choices that you've made, which are terrible, Terrible choices.
01:36:06.000 There's no benefit whatsoever to being overweight, right?
01:36:08.000 No.
01:36:09.000 I mean, being overweight is linked to increased risk for cardiovascular disease, increased risk for type 2 diabetes, increased risk for cancer, increased risk of stroke.
01:36:20.000 It's increased risk of Alzheimer's disease.
01:36:23.000 So, I mean, having an increased risk for all those age-related diseases is not good.
01:36:28.000 There's a bunch of dumb articles written about the positive benefits of being overweight.
01:36:32.000 I haven't seen those.
01:36:34.000 See if you can find some of that, Jamie.
01:36:35.000 It's just people that are fat that are just trying to use confirmation bias and lock into whatever small, weird statistic might exist in regards to maybe they get over a cold better or something.
01:36:50.000 It's really dumb.
01:36:51.000 Actually, obesity starts to cause immunosenescence and problems with your immune system because people that are overweight or obese, they have a lot more inflammation in their body and inflammation takes a lot of energy.
01:37:08.000 Here it is.
01:37:08.000 Five surprising health benefits of being overweight.
01:37:12.000 Being overweight carries a reduced risk of rheumatoid arthritis.
01:37:15.000 It's because your joints are all greased up.
01:37:18.000 I'd like to see the references on that.
01:37:20.000 Being overweight means you're less likely to develop dementia.
01:37:24.000 Being overweight can make a stronger immune system.
01:37:27.000 Yeah, see, that's one of the things that I had read.
01:37:29.000 Like, what?
01:37:31.000 No, these are not true.
01:37:33.000 Hold on.
01:37:33.000 Is it possible to be fit, healthy, and fat?
01:37:35.000 To be fatstafarian?
01:37:37.000 What?
01:37:38.000 What does that mean?
01:37:40.000 Fatstafian?
01:37:41.000 What is that word?
01:37:42.000 To protect your body from possible harm, rendering potential problems harmless even before incursion.
01:37:48.000 To explain on a slightly more plain level, the cytologists are proposing that your extra bulk works like a blubbery barrier.
01:37:56.000 Indeed, the big man Danny Ross, who was stabbed...
01:37:59.000 Oh, that's different.
01:37:59.000 That's someone who was stabbed.
01:38:01.000 Someone who fell 20 feet.
01:38:03.000 And Lawrence Bell, who's like, blah, blah, blah, are portly poster boys for the defensive qualities of flat.
01:38:09.000 But that's ridiculous.
01:38:10.000 That's like wearing armor.
01:38:12.000 You're talking about someone like...
01:38:14.000 Yeah, physically.
01:38:15.000 If you're that...
01:38:16.000 Stop moving that around, please.
01:38:18.000 Physically, if you have all this extra fat in your body and something hits you...
01:38:22.000 Yeah, you've got like a wall between you, your actual organs and your bones and this, you know, this impact.
01:38:31.000 That's so stupid though.
01:38:32.000 Being overweight is linked to increased longevity and recovery time.
01:38:36.000 What?
01:38:37.000 No.
01:38:38.000 No, it's not.
01:38:39.000 Scroll down, Jamie.
01:38:40.000 It's not.
01:38:41.000 It's actually the opposite.
01:38:43.000 Is it okay to fat shame overweight men?
01:38:47.000 Make that larger, please.
01:38:49.000 Kit notes that fat tissue as well as hormones it releases improves bodily defense mechanisms by providing vital energy reserves and anti-inflammatory agents.
01:38:58.000 As a result, despite...
01:39:14.000 This is horseshit.
01:39:17.000 It is.
01:39:18.000 It's absolutely obvious.
01:39:20.000 Is this The Onion?
01:39:21.000 Is this a farce?
01:39:22.000 No, no.
01:39:22.000 What is the website?
01:39:24.000 The Telegraph?
01:39:27.000 Okay, scroll down a little further.
01:39:30.000 Being overweight can mean you're better in the bedroom.
01:39:32.000 Oh, shut the fuck up.
01:39:34.000 This is a fat guy.
01:39:35.000 Fat guy wrote this.
01:39:36.000 Hormones found in abdominal fat allow men to last longer in the bedroom.
01:39:40.000 Bullshit.
01:39:41.000 I'd like to see the references for any of these statements because actually it's quite the opposite.
01:39:45.000 Being overweight, being obese, it's associated with seven years off your lifespan.
01:39:49.000 Extremely obese is 14 years off your lifespan.
01:39:52.000 Obesity is the number one risk factor for heart disease and type 2 diabetes.
01:39:58.000 It also is associated with massive inflammation.
01:40:00.000 What's this?
01:40:01.000 The Journal of Sexual Medicine, Insight on Pathogenesis of Lifelong Premature Ejaculation, Inverse Relationship Between Lifelong Premature Ejaculation and Obesity.
01:40:13.000 Yeah, but you know what?
01:40:14.000 That's because obese guys aren't getting laid, and they probably jerk off so much they can last forever.
01:40:19.000 This is a stupid study.
01:40:21.000 Yeah, this is an association.
01:40:23.000 Premature ejaculation has to do with anxiety.
01:40:26.000 There's a lot of factors involved in premature ejaculation.
01:40:30.000 And what exactly is premature?
01:40:32.000 I mean, it's a completely relative and subjective term because if you come and you enjoyed it, it was perfectly timed.
01:40:38.000 It's not premature.
01:40:40.000 I mean, it's just like you didn't hold on.
01:40:42.000 I mean, the whole idea of holding on as long is a cultural construct.
01:40:46.000 Holding on as long as you can.
01:40:48.000 I mean, that's just...
01:40:49.000 We've decided that that's a good thing.
01:40:51.000 I mean, obviously, for a mutually beneficial, pleasurable experience for your partner, yeah, it probably lasts longer than...
01:40:59.000 You know, that's what a woman would like, but...
01:41:03.000 But it's not premature.
01:41:04.000 The end goal is to try to breed, try to procreate, right?
01:41:08.000 If you get it in there, and as long as you get it in there, it's not premature.
01:41:12.000 Like, biologically speaking?
01:41:14.000 It sounds like it's pretty subjective, their definition of premature.
01:41:18.000 Yeah, I mean, what does that mean?
01:41:20.000 The idea that you can connect all those things and say that there's some sort of a positive benefit to being found, that's clickbait bullshit.
01:41:27.000 That's what that is.
01:41:28.000 Yeah.
01:41:29.000 There's very strong evidence of everything, the opposite of what you just read.
01:41:34.000 Yeah.
01:41:34.000 Like, I just don't even, I really just don't even know where they...
01:41:38.000 That came from maybe some crappy associative studies that were done.
01:41:41.000 But I mean the large body of the literature shows the opposite.
01:41:45.000 But isn't that confusing when you see things like that?
01:41:48.000 Like in the telegraph that probably got read by a million plus people or more worldwide, probably even more than that.
01:41:54.000 That's irritating.
01:41:55.000 It's crazy.
01:41:56.000 Yeah.
01:41:56.000 But those are the kind of articles that people would use to justify their poor life choices.
01:42:01.000 And this same kind of thing, not that article in particular, is what I'd read about when someone was talking about fat shaming.
01:42:08.000 I'm like, come on, man.
01:42:09.000 There's no such thing as...
01:42:10.000 Fat shaming, look, it's rude to be mean to people.
01:42:13.000 Yeah, it's rude to point at someone and laugh because they're fat.
01:42:16.000 But to suggest that someone being overweight is bad for their health is not fat shaming.
01:42:21.000 It's just fact.
01:42:23.000 Yeah, and it's also you're trying to help someone.
01:42:25.000 You want to say, look, we know mechanism, we know there's been studies that show that being overweight causes inflammation.
01:42:34.000 Your immune system's constantly being active, and that crosses into the brain and causes depression, it causes anxiety, it causes learning and memory problems.
01:42:43.000 So you may not be working, and that's been shown, you may not be working at your optimum.
01:42:48.000 You know, being overweight.
01:42:49.000 You could feel better, you know?
01:42:51.000 So, it's kind of ridiculous, I think.
01:42:55.000 I agree with you, and, you know, I have friends that are overweight, and I've always been the person that I feel like I'm lecturing, you know, because it's always, I'm always like, and all these benefits, and I rattle off all this stuff and all this information, and then there's a certain point, it's like, this person probably gets defensive,
01:43:11.000 and Doesn't want to hear it, but I care about them.
01:43:15.000 And that's actually part of the reason I started making videos and doing what I do with How My Fitness, actually.
01:43:20.000 Because I was constantly doing this to friends and family members, people I cared about, where it was like, at least if you put something out there, like if you put a video out there or an article or a podcast or something, they don't feel like you're targeting them.
01:43:33.000 So then you can just go, oh yeah, I talked about that.
01:43:35.000 You should go check it out.
01:43:37.000 And you know what?
01:43:38.000 It does.
01:43:38.000 It seems because people would get less defensive.
01:43:40.000 Yeah.
01:43:41.000 Well, it seems to me that there's a certain amount of information just won't get through some people's wall.
01:43:48.000 Like, they have a wall.
01:43:49.000 This is what I like to do.
01:43:50.000 I like to eat cake.
01:43:51.000 That's it.
01:43:51.000 And then, you know, like, hey, cake has sugar and sugar is bad and being obese is bad and cancer and blood pressure.
01:43:58.000 Sorry, that's not getting in.
01:44:00.000 I'm going home.
01:44:01.000 I'll have some fucking cake.
01:44:02.000 It's got a rule.
01:44:04.000 Like that mouth pleasure that they get from shoving that cake in.
01:44:08.000 They just can't wait.
01:44:09.000 And then the craving.
01:44:11.000 You know, we had talked quite a bit about gut bacteria because of your experience with probiotics and also your experience with antibiotics from recovering from staph infection and how devastating it was to your immune system.
01:44:24.000 I started going down the rabbit hole with gut bacteria after that because I found it so fascinating how long it took you to recover and how common that experience is from large doses of antibiotics, how devastating it is to the immune system,
01:44:40.000 to overall health, wellness, the way you feel, the way your mood, so many different effects.
01:44:47.000 One of the things that I found When I was eating a lot of bread and pasta is that I would have a good meal.
01:44:55.000 Like say I would have like chicken with maybe some vegetables or something like that a nice big healthy meal and I would still be hungry afterwards for sugar.
01:45:05.000 I would like my body I was stuffed like I ate like a half a chicken I'll eat a half a chicken and my body was like we need a cookie.
01:45:13.000 I need a cookie.
01:45:14.000 Come on, man.
01:45:14.000 Give me a cookie.
01:45:15.000 Like, I need some ice cream.
01:45:17.000 There was some gut bacteria craving.
01:45:20.000 And that's what it seemed like.
01:45:21.000 It seemed like some bizarre craving.
01:45:24.000 It wasn't a craving like I needed more calories.
01:45:27.000 Were you eating these?
01:45:29.000 Would you typically eat something with refined sugar?
01:45:32.000 Yes.
01:45:33.000 Oh, okay.
01:45:33.000 Well, yeah.
01:45:35.000 This is an interesting effect.
01:45:37.000 Sorry if I cut you off.
01:45:38.000 That's okay.
01:45:38.000 Something that does happen when you eat...
01:45:43.000 Yeah.
01:45:57.000 So what happens is when your gut...
01:46:00.000 So your gut digests it, and refined sugar usually is like a glucose...
01:46:05.000 It's 50% glucose and 50% fructose, and that's sucrose, and that's what's in table sugars, what's in a lot of refined sugars.
01:46:12.000 What happens is that...
01:46:15.000 When you cleave the sucrose to the glucose and the fructose, the fructose itself doesn't get absorbed by all the cells.
01:46:23.000 It only gets metabolized in the liver.
01:46:25.000 And it does something that's called ATP trapping.
01:46:29.000 So what it does is it traps ATP, which is the source of energy, and it does this because it's trying to do this whole other complicated enzymatic reaction.
01:46:38.000 Blah, blah, blah, right?
01:46:39.000 But what it does is trap the ATP and this sends a signal through the vagal nerve to your brain.
01:46:44.000 I don't have energy.
01:46:46.000 And so you don't get satiated.
01:46:47.000 And so when you eat refined sugars...
01:46:51.000 This is independent from the gut bacteria craving stuff you're talking about.
01:46:54.000 I'm not exactly sure how all that works, but what I'm talking about is real.
01:46:58.000 It's ATP trapping, and it's something that is known to be a cause of why you can eat a bunch of fructose and refined sugar.
01:47:08.000 And not be satiated.
01:47:09.000 And so you have to eat more because your body, your brain thinks you haven't been fed because the ATP has been trapped.
01:47:16.000 It's called ATP trapping.
01:47:17.000 That's one possibility that could be, could have been happening.
01:47:21.000 It's really, it's also why a lot of people that eat a lot of refined sugars with sucrose or high fructose corn syrup is the worst when they eat that.
01:47:29.000 Why is high fructose corn syrup the worst?
01:47:31.000 Because then, so when your gut, so the way your gut, okay, let's just, let's compare table sugar, sucrose, to high fructose corn syrup.
01:47:39.000 Both are bad.
01:47:40.000 But when you compare the two, because sucrose is got, it's got glucose, I mean, it's got glucose and fructose.
01:47:49.000 High fructose corn syrup does too, it has more fructose.
01:47:51.000 But the thing is, is that when the sucrose sees your gut, your gut has something in it called sucrases, which it takes, basically it's, It's slower to cleave and digest the sugar, so it's not like a big bolus that your gut sees.
01:48:07.000 So it's not as irritating on the gut, because first the sucrases have to cleave the sucrose, and so all this stuff is happening.
01:48:14.000 Whereas when you get the high-fructose corn syrup, that doesn't happen.
01:48:17.000 It's a big bolus, and it literally causes a breakdown in your gut barrier.
01:48:23.000 It's like irritant.
01:48:24.000 It's an irritant.
01:48:25.000 The same thing can happen if you take too much of...
01:48:29.000 I mean, there's lots of other things that happen, but if you take too much like magnesium or something, people can get gut irritation.
01:48:34.000 It's a big bolus on the gut and it's irritant.
01:48:36.000 And that's what high fructose corn syrup does.
01:48:38.000 And there's also then the whole ATP trapping thing is like exponential with high fructose corn syrup.
01:48:44.000 So there's more fructose.
01:48:45.000 It's compounded.
01:48:46.000 There's a bunch of different factors.
01:48:47.000 Yeah, there's a bunch of different factors.
01:48:48.000 Of course, the fructose is very different in fruit because the matrix, the fiber, it's digested differently.
01:48:54.000 It's completely different than taking...
01:48:57.000 Table sugar or high fructose corn syrup.
01:48:59.000 Who's the monster that extracted that stuff?
01:49:03.000 It's so bad.
01:49:04.000 When was that done?
01:49:05.000 When did they figure out how to do that?
01:49:07.000 I mean, they used to do cane sugar, right?
01:49:09.000 Was it World War II? I don't know.
01:49:10.000 I don't know.
01:49:11.000 I know there's people that are super into all that stuff, but yeah, it's cheaper.
01:49:16.000 That's why.
01:49:17.000 It's cheaper and it's hidden.
01:49:18.000 It's in everything.
01:49:20.000 You go out and go to a Chili's and think you're going to eat healthy.
01:49:24.000 You order a salad and there's like 60 grams of sugar in their Waldorf salad because it's all in the dressing.
01:49:29.000 High fructose corn syrup.
01:49:30.000 That's insane.
01:49:31.000 Okay, here it is the 1970 was first introduced to food and beverage industry of high fructose corn syrup Was first introduced to the food and beverage industry in the 1970s.
01:49:42.000 That's amazing that that stuff from 1970 until today So in the last 40 plus years has become a massive part of our diets the average this was published in It was like the health organization somewhere in the UK,
01:49:59.000 whatever they call that.
01:50:01.000 There was some health organization in the UK that did a press release and said that the average five-year-old consumes 50 grams of sugar a day.
01:50:09.000 Oh my God.
01:50:10.000 Sorry.
01:50:11.000 Yeah, 50 grams.
01:50:13.000 Is it 50 grams a day or is it 50 grams a year?
01:50:15.000 Yeah, no, 50 grams a day.
01:50:16.000 It's 50 grams a day, which was their weight.
01:50:20.000 Okay, now I'm remembering.
01:50:21.000 Yeah, it would be awesome.
01:50:22.000 It was 50 grams a day, which was the average of their entire body weight of a five-year-old.
01:50:27.000 A year.
01:50:28.000 A year.
01:50:29.000 So if you have a bag of sugar the size of a five-year-old, that five-year-old will eat that in a year.
01:50:33.000 Exactly.
01:50:34.000 Jesus Christ.
01:50:34.000 And I did some calculations.
01:50:35.000 It comes out to like a pumpkin spice latte at Starbucks, which has like 64 grams of sugar.
01:50:41.000 It's crazy.
01:50:43.000 Oh, God.
01:50:44.000 Everything.
01:50:46.000 There's a particular type of gut bacteria that craves sugar and that thrives on sugar, though, isn't there?
01:50:54.000 You know, yeast are thriving on sugar, but they're not gut bacteria.
01:50:58.000 There was like a documentary, an online thing that I watched on the various documentary on different gut bacterias that attracted to...
01:51:09.000 Maybe this is...
01:51:10.000 I know that...
01:51:12.000 So your gut bacteria, what they eat is fiber.
01:51:15.000 And they're mostly in your colon.
01:51:17.000 And so when you eat a fiber-deficient diet, proteins, lipids, sugars are all absorbed in the upper intestine.
01:51:26.000 But your bacteria in your gut starve.
01:51:33.000 Wow.
01:51:36.000 Wow.
01:51:46.000 So is that like irritable bowel syndrome, things along those lines?
01:51:50.000 Well, that can happen, but you don't have to have irritable bowel syndrome to have your gut barrier breaking down.
01:51:56.000 You know, you can have a low level of inflammation, not know it.
01:52:00.000 But there are certain types of bacteria that can thrive in the condition.
01:52:06.000 Now, maybe let's say you have a low fiber diet, meaning you're eating a lot of refined sugar.
01:52:12.000 So it's kind of like the same, right?
01:52:14.000 You're eating a bunch of refined sugar in place of plants and fiber-rich foods.
01:52:19.000 There's a certain type of bacteria that can thrive on low fiber, and it's a type of bacteria that I don't know the name of, but they have little flagella, things that move, you know?
01:52:28.000 Little spermazole.
01:52:29.000 Yeah, exactly, like that.
01:52:30.000 And so they'll swim up.
01:52:32.000 So your bacteria are supposed to be in the colon, the very, very end of your intestines, right?
01:52:38.000 You're not supposed to have a bunch of bacteria in your small intestine.
01:52:40.000 Well, they'll swim up to the small intestine because that's where the food, that's where the proteins and the sugars and the lipids are all getting absorbed.
01:52:47.000 They'll swim up there.
01:52:48.000 And this is often referred to as bacterial overgrowth.
01:52:53.000 Small intestine bacterial overgrowth is what the technical term is.
01:52:56.000 Bacterial overgrowth is actually when your bacteria I think?
01:53:16.000 We're good to go.
01:53:29.000 It literally like you have the gut barrier and there's like these junctions with the barrier.
01:53:34.000 It opens up the junctions, the tight junctions.
01:53:37.000 And in people that don't have like celiac or they don't have a really, really poor gut health, they close.
01:53:42.000 It's like a transient.
01:53:43.000 It's like open, close, open, close.
01:53:45.000 And so when they open, your inflammatory cells can see the bacteria that's there.
01:53:49.000 Usually the barrier separates them because what do immune cells do when they see bacteria?
01:53:55.000 Fire away!
01:53:57.000 War!
01:53:57.000 So the small intestinal bacterial overgrowth does that, and so does gluten.
01:54:03.000 Gluten also causes onulin to be released.
01:54:05.000 So that would cause bloating and inflammation, things like that.
01:54:12.000 Wow.
01:54:13.000 God, it's so crazy how much your diet actually affects your overall health and how few people really consider it when they're thinking about what they're eating and the consequences of what they're eating.
01:54:25.000 And your brain.
01:54:26.000 They just eat what tastes good.
01:54:26.000 And your brain.
01:54:27.000 Your brain health.
01:54:29.000 Having low inflammation is key for your brain.
01:54:33.000 All these different factors that are playing on inside your body, like all this stuff.
01:54:38.000 I know.
01:54:38.000 Yeah, I know.
01:54:39.000 I'm eating a diet that's high in fiber.
01:54:42.000 That's one of the reasons why I actually, I eat a lot of wide diversity because there's lots of different types of fiber.
01:54:49.000 There's, you know, fiber is not just like one nutrient.
01:54:52.000 You know, people always tweet at me.
01:54:53.000 Oh, can I take pectin?
01:54:54.000 Can I, can I take inulin?
01:54:55.000 And, you know, which is a type of fiber.
01:54:57.000 And it's like, well, yeah, you can.
01:54:59.000 But, you know, these different types of bacteria, there's so many different types of bacteria and they're, they're, We're eating different types of fiber, and we don't even know all what each of them are eating.
01:55:08.000 We know the best thing we can do right now is to get a broad spectrum.
01:55:13.000 In plants, there's fiber that are called ligands and cellulose.
01:55:17.000 In fruits, there's pectins like apple.
01:55:20.000 Citrus peel have pectins.
01:55:23.000 Beta-glucans are in mushrooms or in oats.
01:55:27.000 Resistant starch is in legumes, beans.
01:55:29.000 There's inulin, which is in plants and also like onions, artichokes, garlic, and all these different types of fiber feeding different types of bacteria.
01:55:37.000 And the best thing you want is like a diverse bacterial set.
01:55:39.000 So feeding them all different types of fiber is good.
01:55:41.000 Plus you're getting all the plant hormetic compounds, And then you're getting all the micronutrients.
01:55:46.000 Magnesium, vitamin K, folate.
01:55:49.000 These are things that people are deficient in.
01:55:51.000 So I try to do that, and then I eat meat.
01:55:54.000 I think there was a...
01:55:55.000 Now that I'm thinking about it, I think it was kind of like an infomercial.
01:56:00.000 Do you know what I'm talking about?
01:56:01.000 That Candida video.
01:56:03.000 Yes, that's exactly what it is.
01:56:04.000 It seems like it was at the end they were selling a product, but I don't think I made it that far enough.
01:56:07.000 35 minutes.
01:56:09.000 Yeah, it was really long and it was disturbing.
01:56:12.000 You know, you're talking about Candida growth in your stomach and how your gut is responding to all this sugar by this massive production of, or massive, here it is.
01:56:23.000 So that's what happens, right?
01:56:24.000 Sugar, the cause of candida.
01:56:26.000 Candida cause of cancer.
01:56:27.000 And sugar has been shown, right, to accelerate cancer growth?
01:56:32.000 Yes.
01:56:33.000 In fact, there was a study that was just published recently where it caused breast cancer cells to grow like four times faster.
01:56:41.000 Whoa!
01:56:42.000 Four times faster from sugar?
01:56:44.000 Yeah.
01:56:45.000 Refined sugar.
01:56:46.000 My wife's mom, she's a lovely lady, but she loves sugar.
01:56:51.000 She puts sugar in everything.
01:56:52.000 She makes kale salad and you eat it like you're eating candy.
01:56:55.000 Everything is sugar.
01:56:56.000 It's like from her era, that's what they did.
01:56:59.000 They put sugar in their cornflakes.
01:57:01.000 Everybody put sugar in everything.
01:57:02.000 And they felt like it just made things taste good.
01:57:04.000 Like you're eating healthy food and it's got a little sugar on it.
01:57:07.000 A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down.
01:57:10.000 Remember that?
01:57:10.000 Yes.
01:57:11.000 You know, and it's just, it's so disturbing that people grow up thinking that this is a way to eat.
01:57:17.000 And it just, nobody told them.
01:57:19.000 Nobody warned them.
01:57:20.000 And, you know, she's in her 60s now, and that's just how it goes.
01:57:23.000 Wants to be autonomous.
01:57:24.000 It's hard to...
01:57:26.000 God, it's just fucking...
01:57:27.000 It's hard to tell people.
01:57:27.000 Yeah, I've got loved ones that I care about that are also addicted to sugar and I try hard.
01:57:36.000 It is hard, especially the older you get when you're stuck in your ways, your brain's not as able to kind of...
01:57:42.000 Change as easily, you know, so also you don't have a lot of willpower some people are just not good at like saying okay This is what I'm not doing this anymore, you know like this I'm done doing that boom, you know, I mean I don't know how other people's brains work So I don't I don't know what the pull is But I know for me when when I try to quit something like I'm gonna quit sugar Boy that fucking first week or so is hard because the pull it's like there's this desire to cheat go come on man Man,
01:58:11.000 one cookie's not going to fuck anything up.
01:58:13.000 It's not going to be that big of a deal.
01:58:14.000 There's this pull to have sugar.
01:58:16.000 And when I kicked sugar for...
01:58:18.000 I've done it twice now, but the first time I did it, one of the most disturbing things was the headaches.
01:58:23.000 Two or three days in, I was getting these headaches.
01:58:25.000 I was like, oh my God, I'm getting sugar detox headaches.
01:58:29.000 That's what it was.
01:58:30.000 It had to be.
01:58:31.000 It was the only thing that was different.
01:58:32.000 I was eating all the same normal things, but I wasn't taking any sugar.
01:58:35.000 Anything that had sugar, I wouldn't take it.
01:58:37.000 And I was getting headaches.
01:58:39.000 And most people...
01:58:42.000 If you don't have a rock-solid, determined mentality for this type of stuff, it's really hard.
01:58:49.000 If you're wishy-washy on your diet, well, I'm just going to try to eat healthy.
01:58:53.000 My friends have told me that before, they try to lose weight.
01:58:55.000 What are you doing?
01:58:56.000 I'm just going to try to eat healthier.
01:58:57.000 You ain't going to do shit.
01:58:59.000 You're not going to do shit.
01:59:00.000 Like, you have to have, like, a rigid set of rules.
01:59:02.000 You can't say, I'm just going to eat healthy.
01:59:05.000 Because then you'll decide you're eating healthy.
01:59:07.000 Ah, fucking cupcake's not going to hurt anybody.
01:59:09.000 And then you'll eat that cupcake.
01:59:10.000 And that'll kill all your hard work.
01:59:12.000 I had no idea that you were eating refined sugar, like...
01:59:16.000 This whole time I thought you're always like vegetables, meat, foods.
01:59:22.000 Yeah, I would occasionally dive in.
01:59:23.000 I mean, it wasn't like a real problem, but it was enough that...
01:59:27.000 See, if you eat protein bars, like the ones that Jamie was eating over there, what does that have in it?
01:59:31.000 I love those goddamn things.
01:59:35.000 These things are great.
01:59:36.000 They taste awesome.
01:59:37.000 They're called Pro Bars.
01:59:38.000 I first found out about these suckers when I went hunting.
01:59:41.000 Oh, come on.
01:59:42.000 Is that real?
01:59:43.000 This fucker has 21 grams of sugar in it.
01:59:46.000 This is crazy.
01:59:48.000 Yeah, it's everywhere.
01:59:49.000 It's hidden everywhere.
01:59:51.000 That is goddamn crazy.
01:59:54.000 This is 21 grams.
01:59:56.000 You're only supposed to have 25 in a day.
01:59:58.000 Yep, exactly.
01:59:59.000 The whole day.
01:59:59.000 Yeah, according to World Health.
02:00:00.000 So this one yummy bar...
02:00:04.000 That's it.
02:00:05.000 That's your added sugar for the day.
02:00:06.000 I eat two or three of those in a setting.
02:00:08.000 Yeah, that's way too much.
02:00:09.000 After I worked out, I would eat two of those.
02:00:10.000 If I was in the morning, if I was headed over here and I didn't have time to eat, I'd throw two of those down and a kombucha.
02:00:17.000 So the kombucha's got ten.
02:00:19.000 Kombucha has.
02:00:19.000 10?
02:00:20.000 Yeah, for a grape.
02:00:20.000 Grape kombucha has 10. Plain has 5. So I prefer plain, but sometimes the grape was all I had left.
02:00:27.000 So I throw down a grape.
02:00:28.000 That's 10. I throw down two of those.
02:00:30.000 That's 41 or 42. Jesus Christ.
02:00:33.000 I mean, 52 grams of sugar on the way over here.
02:00:36.000 Which is twice what you're supposed to have in a day.
02:00:38.000 And then I might have a piece of cake.
02:00:41.000 I might eat real healthy and say, I'm eating real healthy.
02:00:43.000 And someone, ooh, you want some apple pie?
02:00:46.000 Fuck yeah.
02:00:47.000 Do you want ice cream on it?
02:00:48.000 Why not?
02:00:48.000 And then what's that?
02:00:49.000 That's probably another 30, 40, 50, 60, 70. So you're winding up with 100 plus grams of sugar in a day.
02:00:58.000 Right.
02:00:59.000 Yeah, and this stuff is causing inflammation in your gut.
02:01:03.000 At least with you, you were still getting some of the good stuff, though.
02:01:06.000 It's not like you were eating a fiber-deficient diet.
02:01:09.000 Yeah, no, I was eating healthy on top of that.
02:01:12.000 Which is better than most people that are eating that stuff.
02:01:15.000 Fucking 21?
02:01:17.000 Yeah.
02:01:17.000 This is just crazy.
02:01:19.000 It's crazy.
02:01:19.000 This is crazy.
02:01:20.000 There's a thing called a Lara bar.
02:01:22.000 You ever heard?
02:01:22.000 L-A-R-A? They're so yummy.
02:01:24.000 They're so good, but it makes it look like you're eating something healthy.
02:01:27.000 It's like the wrapping is earth-toned.
02:01:29.000 It's like, ooh, I'm doing yoga in a bar.
02:01:33.000 I'm out hiking.
02:01:34.000 Most of those bars are really candy bars.
02:01:36.000 They're candy.
02:01:37.000 It's candy.
02:01:38.000 I think Quest Nutrition is probably like, if I were to say that there's anyone that makes a bar that's like...
02:01:45.000 Not a candy bar.
02:01:46.000 Quest has some decent ones.
02:01:49.000 Well, Primal Kitchens has a really good one.
02:01:52.000 It's a nut bar with dark chocolate and has a tiny amount of honey in it.
02:01:57.000 It's less than four grams.
02:01:59.000 I'm pretty sure less than four grams of sugar per bar, but it's mostly almonds and dark chocolate, like a little bit of honey.
02:02:07.000 Those are really good.
02:02:08.000 It's not sweet at all.
02:02:10.000 I like those.
02:02:11.000 And a lot of times I'll eat meat bars.
02:02:14.000 There's some bars.
02:02:15.000 What are the ones we have back there?
02:02:17.000 Meat.
02:02:17.000 Yeah.
02:02:17.000 What are those ones we have in the back, Jamie?
02:02:19.000 What are those things called?
02:02:20.000 Bison bars.
02:02:21.000 Yeah.
02:02:21.000 Well, not just the ones that we sell at Onnit, but those other ones that I bought.
02:02:25.000 I bought some other ones.
02:02:26.000 That are really good.
02:02:27.000 But even some of those have fucking sugar in them.
02:02:30.000 It's just amazing how sneaky they are with that goddamn sugar.
02:02:33.000 It's in condiments.
02:02:34.000 It's in hot sauces.
02:02:35.000 Yeah, these things right here.
02:02:37.000 So these fuckers.
02:02:39.000 So I got these goddamn things.
02:02:41.000 These paleo simplified.
02:02:42.000 I'm like, oh, got a paleo bar.
02:02:44.000 Paleo doesn't have any sugar in it.
02:02:46.000 Bullshit.
02:02:47.000 It's got a lot of goddamn sugar in it.
02:02:49.000 All these fucking things at 15 or 19 or...
02:02:53.000 Yeah.
02:02:54.000 Yeah, this one has 20. Jesus Christ.
02:02:57.000 The lab that I was doing my postdoc in, I've talked about this before, they designed a bar intentionally to try and fill micronutrient gaps in people that are obese.
02:03:09.000 So it has vitamin D in it, it has magnesium, vitamin K, it has DHA, omega-3, it has all these good micronutrients in it.
02:03:18.000 And then they try to put some dark chocolate so that it doesn't taste like crap.
02:03:23.000 Sprinkle a little bit.
02:03:24.000 There's very little sugar in it.
02:03:26.000 But, you know, people don't like them because they don't taste good.
02:03:28.000 This little fucker has 22. Crazy.
02:03:32.000 You shouldn't eat that stuff.
02:03:33.000 This little tiny thing.
02:03:35.000 Imagine how many people are eating this stuff.
02:03:38.000 This is fucking sugar!
02:03:39.000 These fucks!
02:03:40.000 I think the best thing you can do is eat whole foods.
02:03:44.000 You can eat vegetables.
02:03:46.000 You know, fruits are not that bad.
02:03:47.000 You can eat a pear, an apple.
02:03:49.000 You can eat berries, strawberries.
02:03:51.000 All these things.
02:03:52.000 They have a variety of different good polyphenols.
02:03:55.000 These plant insecticides.
02:03:56.000 They've got fiber.
02:03:57.000 They've got some micronutrients.
02:04:00.000 And they taste good.
02:04:01.000 Like a peach, a really good peach.
02:04:04.000 Oh my god, they're delicious.
02:04:05.000 And it's something that we've gotten so...
02:04:07.000 We've just gotten so used to it.
02:04:09.000 We take it for granted.
02:04:10.000 You know, if you had a dessert and it tasted like a delicious peach, you'd be like, ooh, this is a wonderful dessert.
02:04:16.000 But because it's a peach, you're like, ah, it's good for you.
02:04:19.000 It's almost like we want that bad for you rush.
02:04:23.000 It's like we're naughty on top of the fact that we're eating something.
02:04:27.000 We're getting the mouth pleasure from it, and we're also getting the naughtiness.
02:04:31.000 Like, ooh, the cake.
02:04:33.000 Ooh, chocolate cake.
02:04:34.000 How much of that is a learned response as well, you know?
02:04:37.000 I mean, my...
02:04:43.000 I think?
02:04:55.000 I go to a dinner party, the dessert is always fresh fruit.
02:04:58.000 I mean, it's just super normal.
02:05:01.000 It's always some sort of fresh fruit, metally she'll cut up, and sometimes she'll put a little bit of some alcohol or something on there, like amaretto.
02:05:11.000 But it's always fresh fruit.
02:05:13.000 They've been doing this for 50 years.
02:05:15.000 That's been their dessert.
02:05:16.000 Fresh fruit.
02:05:18.000 It's not as good, though.
02:05:19.000 What's the problem?
02:05:20.000 It is good!
02:05:21.000 Chocolate cake is better, for sure.
02:05:22.000 Dark chocolate's good.
02:05:23.000 Dark chocolate has a lot of good stuff in it.
02:05:25.000 Yeah.
02:05:26.000 You know, so the dark chocolate's one I think that people that are really craving that can feel good because there's EGCG in dark chocolate, which is what's in green tea.
02:05:36.000 EGCG is one of those normal plant compounds that are doing a hormetic response.
02:05:41.000 It's been shown to cause brain cells to grow.
02:05:43.000 It's anti-cancer.
02:05:44.000 It kills cancer cells.
02:05:45.000 It also is really good for your skin.
02:05:48.000 It prevents your skin collagenase from being broken down.
02:05:50.000 And it has a really high rating of antioxidants, right?
02:05:54.000 Well, that's what I'm talking about.
02:05:56.000 People get confused.
02:06:00.000 Antioxidants.
02:06:01.000 There are antioxidants in fruits and vegetables.
02:06:06.000 But in dark chocolate, the antioxidants are the hormetic compounds that are causing your antioxidant genes to be expressed.
02:06:13.000 It's a big difference.
02:06:15.000 And there's no comparison.
02:06:18.000 You need a certain amount of vitamin E, which is antioxidant.
02:06:22.000 You need a certain amount of vitamin C, which is an antioxidant and a cofactor.
02:06:25.000 You need it to make collagen.
02:06:27.000 But in just the antioxidant form, it pales in comparison to glutathione-related enzymes we have.
02:06:34.000 Superoxide dismutase, all these like systems that we have in our body that are designed to prevent, you know, these things called oxidation, oxidative stress from happening.
02:06:45.000 So when you're taking, in fact, some people, they have a, so we have this gene that can use glutathione in our body, takes the glutathione that we make in our body, and it puts it to like prevent damage from happening to our cells.
02:07:01.000 There are people that have a more active version of this, that if they take vitamin E supplemental, it actually does them harm.
02:07:09.000 Really?
02:07:10.000 Yeah.
02:07:10.000 Because what happens is the body goes, oh, I've got this vitamin E. It's doing that job.
02:07:15.000 And so the enzyme doesn't get active.
02:07:18.000 When you have the stress there, the enzyme's not active.
02:07:21.000 There's a certain gene polymorphism.
02:07:23.000 In the GSTP1 gene.
02:07:26.000 So how would someone find that out?
02:07:27.000 Do they have to do a 23andMe?
02:07:29.000 23andMe is a genetic test that tests for a variety of these polymorphisms.
02:07:35.000 And they give a report that's kind of...
02:07:39.000 They don't tell you about that gene.
02:07:40.000 You have to like...
02:07:43.000 I don't know if Promethease does.
02:07:45.000 Promethease is a tool that costs $5.
02:07:47.000 I've talked about it before in your podcast.
02:07:49.000 You can run your 23andMe data through it, and it tells you all these polymorphisms, what you have and what they mean.
02:07:55.000 But I also have a tool that's out today, actually.
02:07:58.000 Really?
02:08:00.000 It's the beta version of it, so it's basic functionality.
02:08:03.000 But that gene's on there.
02:08:04.000 The GSTP1, glutathione one, is on there.
02:08:07.000 So this tool that I've got out is free.
02:08:11.000 So people can use it for free.
02:08:12.000 And I'm going to add, you know, a bunch more genes to it.
02:08:14.000 But right now there's a basic set of genes that are interesting.
02:08:18.000 Genes that are involved in, you know, making vitamin D. Can you convert the vitamin D3 you're taking into the steroid hormone or the vitamin D3 you get from the sun?
02:08:26.000 Some people have a polymorphism where they don't do that as well.
02:08:29.000 There it is right there.
02:08:29.000 There it is.
02:08:30.000 Rhonda's genetic report.
02:08:31.000 Foundmyfitness.com forward slash genetics.
02:08:34.000 It's amazing to me that every time you come on the podcast, there's new shit that I have to remember.
02:08:39.000 And it seems like you're constantly learning things.
02:08:41.000 That's what's crazy is that you've been studying this for so long, but it's just you're at the tip of the iceberg.
02:08:46.000 It seems like there's no end to this.
02:08:48.000 There's no end.
02:08:50.000 We need CRISPR so that I can keep learning.
02:08:52.000 It's like infinite amount.
02:08:54.000 I mean, I... Well, explain CRISPR for people who don't know what that means.
02:08:57.000 It's a relatively new method of altering genetics.
02:09:01.000 I'm going to give the thousand-high-mile summary of it, where it's basically a way to go and fix a gene that may be, like, let's say you've got some gene that you can't repair, you know...
02:09:14.000 The alcohol-induced damage as well, which also increases the risk for traumatic brain injury by like tenfold.
02:09:21.000 It's bad.
02:09:22.000 So you say, I don't want that ApoE4 gene because it's going to lead to Alzheimer's disease.
02:09:26.000 It's going to make my traumatic brain injury lead to Alzheimer's disease.
02:09:30.000 It also does other things.
02:09:32.000 Well, CRISPR is a technology that can...
02:09:36.000 Go and recognize the gene you want.
02:09:39.000 So it recognizes just a small sequence of DNA that you put on it.
02:09:42.000 So you put this little sequence of DNA because you know what the sequence of the gene is.
02:09:46.000 And it recognizes its complementary pair.
02:09:48.000 And it goes in and it cuts it out.
02:09:50.000 And it replaces it with what you actually put there, which is the right version of it.
02:09:54.000 So it can go, cut out a bad thing, and put the right thing in.
02:09:58.000 So it's a way of going...
02:09:59.000 Instead of...
02:10:01.000 Gene engineering up until CRISPR, the way it was done was basically you would put a gene in and it would just go anywhere and it wouldn't replace the bad one necessarily.
02:10:12.000 So this is kind of like a whole new field.
02:10:15.000 It's like...
02:10:16.000 So anyways.
02:10:17.000 Yeah, and there's a Radiolab podcast on that as well.
02:10:20.000 It's spelled C-R-I-S-P-R, right?
02:10:23.000 Right.
02:10:23.000 And if you're interested, listen to that Radiolab podcast because it's amazing and it's also interviews of people who discovered it.
02:10:30.000 Right, Jennifer Dudna at UC Berkeley.
02:10:32.000 Yeah, I listen to some of that.
02:10:33.000 It's good.
02:10:34.000 I think they do a really good job explaining it to people so that they can understand.
02:10:39.000 I want to talk for a little bit about the cryotherapy because this is something that I emailed you when there was a disturbing article that was sort of poo-pooing the benefits of cryotherapy.
02:10:47.000 And the article was, I thought it was really poorly done, poorly researched.
02:10:52.000 And it was also, they studied really subjective things like how sore you felt after exercise and whether or not it benefited from that.
02:11:03.000 But there are real positive benefits of cryotherapy that are measurable.
02:11:09.000 Yes, and that have been measured.
02:11:11.000 Well, first of all, that article that you're referring to from that, whatever website it was, but the article was...
02:11:18.000 Well, Steve Novella is a guy, and I think what he did is he rushed to put this article out because that woman died in Las Vegas.
02:11:24.000 From cryotherapy.
02:11:25.000 And it was a really tragic incident.
02:11:27.000 She was by herself.
02:11:28.000 There's two different types of cryotherapy, one of the things we should point out.
02:11:31.000 First of all, I don't have any vested interest in cryotherapy.
02:11:37.000 I don't own any of it.
02:11:38.000 I don't make any money from it.
02:11:40.000 Nothing.
02:11:41.000 I enjoy the benefits of it.
02:11:42.000 And I use it.
02:11:43.000 But this woman who did it, she did the type, there's two kinds.
02:11:47.000 One of them, it goes from the neck down.
02:11:49.000 So you stand in this booth, your head is above breathing in normal oxygen, but below you is liquid nitrogen.
02:11:55.000 You can't breathe that stuff in.
02:11:56.000 That's why your head is not under.
02:11:58.000 If you do breathe that stuff in, you don't have any oxygen, you'll black out, and that's what happened to her.
02:12:03.000 She did it by herself, it was poorly set up, and apparently she was quite short.
02:12:08.000 So her head was kind of below the limit where you're supposed to be.
02:12:13.000 So she was breathing in the liquid nitrogen and she fell asleep and blacked out.
02:12:17.000 Oh, she went to one of those types?
02:12:19.000 I thought she was in like the full-on.
02:12:21.000 No, no, no.
02:12:22.000 The full-on ones are much rarer.
02:12:25.000 And what the full-on ones do is they super cool the air with the nitrogen.
02:12:30.000 So the air itself is pumped in really cold.
02:12:33.000 That's what I did.
02:12:34.000 Yes, that's what you did.
02:12:35.000 And that's what we're going to do today, too, if you have the time.
02:12:37.000 I loved it.
02:12:37.000 I loved it.
02:12:39.000 That one, you can breathe in.
02:12:41.000 It's just fucking unbelievably cold.
02:12:43.000 Okay, so the one that she did, she set it up by herself, which you're never supposed to do.
02:12:47.000 You're always supposed to have supervision.
02:12:49.000 So it wasn't whether or not...
02:12:51.000 I mean, she's the only person I've ever heard of that's died from this, and it's a horrible tragedy.
02:12:55.000 Was she committing suicide?
02:12:56.000 No, no, no.
02:12:56.000 She was just working there.
02:12:58.000 And sometimes women will, they'll put their face under it because they want the effects of a cryofacial.
02:13:05.000 Because cryofacial has been shown to improve collagen and tightens your skin up.
02:13:10.000 Well, cryotherapy actually prevents, it inhibits enzymes that break down collagen called collagenases.
02:13:15.000 And that's actually part of the reason it helps with arthritis.
02:13:18.000 Because collagenases break down collagen and they break down like Yeah, women love it when they get their face done,
02:13:34.000 apparently.
02:13:35.000 Or vain men, too.
02:13:37.000 Or any men.
02:13:37.000 You don't have to be vain to want collagen.
02:13:39.000 But the point being, that article came out and all these people were saying, oh, see, I told you cryotherapy was bullshit.
02:13:44.000 I'm like, oh, my God, what a piss-poor article.
02:13:47.000 And it was all talking about soreness.
02:13:49.000 And one of the things that he said that really drove me crazy was you'd get just as much benefit from a cool-down and a stretch after a workout.
02:13:57.000 I'm like...
02:13:58.000 Tell that to these fucking people that I see that go there all the time that do it twice a day because they have severe arthritis and it's the only thing that's given them any form of freedom of movement of their hands.
02:14:11.000 I know a bunch of people that go there that have had some really debilitating arthritis and this has given them relief where nothing else is giving it to them other than pretty severe pharmaceutical drugs or ibuprofen at high levels or what you were talking about.
02:14:24.000 There's a lady that goes to my thing, but she was raving about how she can finally stretch her hands out.
02:14:29.000 Her hands had been locked in this position for years.
02:14:32.000 Yeah, it has.
02:14:33.000 I mean, the cold itself is a hormetic stressor that is activating a variety of anti-inflammatory pathways, antioxidant pathways, you know, and it's also, last time I think on the podcast we talked about it increases norepinephrine.
02:14:48.000 Well, norepinephrine itself, so cryotherapy and cold water immersion are two forms of, you know, cold exposure.
02:14:55.000 Cryotherapy, just two minutes at like a minus 180 Fahrenheit can increase norepinephrine twofold.
02:15:02.000 That's, you know, twofold over what you were before you went in.
02:15:05.000 And norepinephrine, in addition to the brain benefits we were talking about, how it makes you feel good, how it helps with learning, it also is a very prone anti-inflammatory.
02:15:14.000 So it inhibits the production of TNF-alpha, which is So it's kind of like in arthritis, TNF-alpha is kind of like going haywire.
02:15:23.000 You're making too much TNF-alpha.
02:15:24.000 And what happens is TNF-alpha is a signaling molecule to your immune cells that says, hey, there's an infection here.
02:15:31.000 Because that's normally what happens when you release TNF-alpha is because there's some bacteria or something that you need to kill.
02:15:38.000 And so your immune cells, all they see is the signal.
02:15:40.000 They don't know what's causing it.
02:15:41.000 They don't know that it's because your gut cells and your immune cells in your gut are seeing bacteria because of your poor diet or Yeah.
02:16:02.000 So you're making bleach in your body to kill things and that's happening chronically.
02:16:06.000 That's going to cause some tissue damage.
02:16:07.000 It's going to cause pain.
02:16:09.000 They also make hydrogen peroxide.
02:16:12.000 You make that and your immune cells will make that.
02:16:13.000 So cryotherapy inhibits the signaling molecule so that your immune cells quiet down because now they're not seeing that signal that says, come on, hey, fire up, fire up.
02:16:23.000 It's not there.
02:16:24.000 So that's a good thing to inhibit TNF-alpha.
02:16:27.000 And like I said, with the collagenases as well.
02:16:29.000 But there are so many.
02:16:31.000 I just spent two weeks just researching and reading.
02:16:35.000 I've been doing some cold exposures, you know, like cold shower and also jumping in the ocean, ice bath.
02:16:41.000 And I really liked the cryotherapy that I did last time we were here.
02:16:46.000 And, you know, so I've been very interested in it, like understanding why you feel so good.
02:16:51.000 And so I did some reading on it.
02:16:53.000 And there's so many different positive hormetic benefits from doing cryotherapy.
02:16:58.000 So you have, you know, the anti-inflammatory We're good to go.
02:17:20.000 You could be taking all the liposomal glutathione you want.
02:17:23.000 It's not going to matter if you don't have the enzymes active to use it.
02:17:26.000 So you could take liposomal glutathione and that's great.
02:17:31.000 You make glutathione inside of your cells.
02:17:35.000 We can't make as much of it as we get older.
02:17:37.000 But if you take it and you don't have the enzymes that use it to actually do the good stuff active, then it doesn't matter.
02:17:44.000 So cryotherapy was shown to activate two different glutathione-related enzymes, which is pretty awesome.
02:17:49.000 So it would enhance your body's ability to absorb glutathione?
02:17:52.000 No, it doesn't enhance your body's ability to absorb it.
02:17:55.000 It enhances your body's ability to use it.
02:17:57.000 So if you're taking it, liposomal glutathione, and then you're using cryotherapy, it would enhance it?
02:18:04.000 So what I'm saying is that the liposomal glutathione that you take, all that does is increase glutathione inside of your cells.
02:18:11.000 Glutathione inside of your cells does nothing without enzymes that use it to basically sequester damaging inflammatory things.
02:18:22.000 And the cryotherapy increases...
02:18:24.000 Activates the enzymes that use it.
02:18:27.000 So it's like, great, I have all this glutathione sitting around in my cells that I've been taking...
02:18:31.000 And I also now have the enzymes that use it to do good stuff now are being turned on.
02:18:36.000 But what was very interesting is that it took like multiple sessions before those got active.
02:18:42.000 Like 10 to 20. 10 in one, at least 10. And then the other study was 20. And was it consecutively?
02:18:49.000 10 days in a row.
02:18:51.000 Yeah, 10 days in a row.
02:18:52.000 But the first day I didn't do it.
02:18:54.000 So that was also very interesting.
02:18:56.000 So it's almost like your body's saying, okay, this crazy fuck is going to do this all the time.
02:19:00.000 It's an adaptive response.
02:19:01.000 Yeah, your body's preparing for war.
02:19:03.000 It's stressful.
02:19:04.000 It's a stressful response.
02:19:06.000 The other thing that's really cool that we didn't talk about last time on the podcast is the thermogenic effect.
02:19:13.000 When you release norepinephrine.
02:19:15.000 I keep going back to that because it's like you can't refute that.
02:19:19.000 Steve Novella, no one.
02:19:20.000 No debunker, no skeptic, no I don't care who you are.
02:19:24.000 It's consistent in every type of cold exposure.
02:19:28.000 Period.
02:19:29.000 It's consensus.
02:19:31.000 You release norepinephrine.
02:19:32.000 Well, there always seems to be some sort of a rationalization with a lot of the debunking, like whether it's the benefits of exercise, whether it's the benefits of cryotherapy.
02:19:40.000 It's almost like a rationalization for not doing it.
02:19:43.000 It's like you're looking for an excuse to not do it and not really very objective.
02:19:48.000 Yes.
02:19:48.000 That was what was disturbing about us.
02:19:50.000 This is like you're poo-pooing something that's offering people great...
02:19:53.000 Yeah, it was clear.
02:19:56.000 I mean, especially after the two weeks of research.
02:19:58.000 I mean, I think there's a kind of mentality when you're...
02:20:01.000 Sometimes people like to think I'm a debunker and I'm not.
02:20:05.000 I am intentionally like...
02:20:07.000 Because if you get in this mentality of always debunking something...
02:20:12.000 It's like this spiral and you can't see the good.
02:20:15.000 You can't keep an open mind to get past what's in your box that you know.
02:20:20.000 And that's very dangerous.
02:20:22.000 It's an intellectual blind spot.
02:20:24.000 It is.
02:20:24.000 And there are a lot of scientists that I know that are very smart, extremely smart, but they are in that loop where it's like just they have to debunk and criticize.
02:20:33.000 And it's like, you know, at some point, huge discoveries are made by like...
02:20:38.000 Connecting the dots and like getting past that like I mean you have to be critical being critical is very important But you also like I think there's a certain threshold where you just start to like, you know, you get to this like spiral But was also was infuriating about this is the data is out there.
02:20:53.000 This is not like it's not there's no data It's like he made a cursory examination of the evidence and And what he chose to focus on was so subjective.
02:21:04.000 He focused on a study that tested muscle soreness post-exercise with cryotherapy.
02:21:09.000 Well, actually, the study that he referred to was a meta-analysis, and it was subjective, but it actually came to the conclusion that there were benefits.
02:21:17.000 However, it said more studies need to be done because there wasn't large enough sample sizes and the quality of data was poor because there were not double-blinded placebo-controlled clinical trials.
02:21:28.000 And I have to say to you, what he recited in that article, there was a positive effect of the cryo.
02:21:35.000 But the problem is that because they...
02:21:38.000 Follow it up with, oh, well, it's poor quality, basically poor science.
02:21:42.000 The reality is, is that you can't do a double-blinded, placebo-controlled trial with cryotherapy.
02:21:48.000 Like, you're going to be cold, and you're going to be put in this chamber where there's, like, cold, or you're not, and you're going to know if you're not as cold.
02:21:55.000 You know, so anyways, I thought that was ridiculous.
02:21:57.000 I was just like, whatever, I'm in Oregon.
02:21:58.000 I'm going to read about...
02:22:00.000 Because I know, I've experienced that there's definitely something going on.
02:22:06.000 And one of the things that happens is the norepinephrine.
02:22:09.000 And when you release that norepinephrine, it activates a pathway inside of your cells that basically causes your energy metabolism to ramp up because you're trying to generate heat.
02:22:24.000 Basically, your body is saying, I don't want to die.
02:22:27.000 I need to make heat.
02:22:28.000 And so a couple of ways it can do that.
02:22:30.000 One, it can shiver.
02:22:32.000 And shivering is when your muscles start to contract.
02:22:34.000 And that...
02:22:35.000 It requires energy for your muscles to twitch.
02:22:40.000 It's not very thermodynamically favorable, so it's not a good way to generate heat, but you generate heat because you have to ramp up to twitch.
02:22:48.000 But then what happens after you've been exposed, and actually this happened to me because we did the cryo twice.
02:22:52.000 The first time I did it, I was shivering.
02:22:54.000 The entire time I was shivering.
02:22:56.000 It was really crazy because I've never shivered like that in my life.
02:22:59.000 But the second time I went in, I did not shiver.
02:23:02.000 And after reading about it, what happens is your body quickly adapts.
02:23:05.000 So you adapt, and what happens is non-shivering thermogenesis.
02:23:09.000 So the norepinephrine causes your mitochondria, which are the energy-producing little organelles inside of your cells.
02:23:15.000 Well, it causes them in your adipose tissue to get activated.
02:23:20.000 And it does this by increasing the expression of a gene called UCP1, which basically...
02:23:25.000 It freaks your mitochondria out because your mitochondria are kind of like batteries.
02:23:29.000 They're charged.
02:23:30.000 They have a negative charge on the inside and a positive charge on the outside.
02:23:33.000 Well, UCP1 totally uncouples that so that there's no more charge.
02:23:38.000 And that charge is very important because when that charge is there, your body knows, okay, I've been making energy because the way you make the charge is by making energy.
02:23:46.000 So when the charge goes away, your body's like, oh my God, I've got no energy.
02:23:49.000 So it just starts to ramp up fat metabolism.
02:23:52.000 So it does that, and you start to make more mitochondria.
02:23:55.000 So you're making more mitochondria in your fat cells, and this is often called brown fat.
02:24:00.000 So you can actually, the reason it's called brown fat is because when you look at a fat cell under the microscope, if it has more mitochondria, then it looks brown.
02:24:07.000 So you actually start to burn fat, and you have this thermogenic, because you're burning fat, it's creating heat as a byproduct, so you're warming your body, but it has this nice side effect of burning fat, which people like.
02:24:18.000 And the more you expose yourself to the cold, the more you're I think we're good to go.
02:24:46.000 People that have been exposed to a cold, they've been shown to increase their brown adipose tissue by like 38% if they're exposed to 10 days of 50 degree air, like outside air, just regular air.
02:24:57.000 That's it?
02:24:58.000 50 degrees is all it takes?
02:24:59.000 All day, 10 days.
02:25:00.000 Wow.
02:25:00.000 So like six hours a day out in New York in the, I don't know, pre-winter, fall, I don't know, something like that, being out there for six hours for 10 days in a row.
02:25:10.000 Men were able to increase their brown adipose tissue by like 38% or something like that.
02:25:13.000 That's why people from the East Coast or from the Northeast that move to California and then they go back during the winter, they go, oh, my blood got too thin.
02:25:20.000 Well, there really is like a physical factor of your body not being accustomed to dealing with cold blood.
02:25:26.000 Yeah, you adapt.
02:25:26.000 You adapt.
02:25:27.000 And that's what brown adipose tissue...
02:25:28.000 And that's really how cold got really popularized because people wanted to use it as a hack to lose weight.
02:25:34.000 So they were like, oh, if I do these cold showers, I use it for the brain benefits because I notice I feel really good and also more focused.
02:25:44.000 So I like that.
02:25:45.000 And a lot of people I've talked to have felt the same way.
02:25:49.000 But then I think the other part of this article...
02:25:52.000 Was the effects of it blunting some of the strength training.
02:25:56.000 And, you know, I talk about this in this report that I wrote or in the podcast that I released on, and it's so complicated.
02:26:03.000 I had to, like, sit there and literally just read for, like, two weeks to try to figure it out because, you know, the problem is that exercise is a hormetic stress.
02:26:11.000 Cold is a hormetic stress.
02:26:13.000 So exercise itself, you need some of the inflammation.
02:26:16.000 You need the bad stuff to get the good stuff.
02:26:18.000 That's how it works.
02:26:19.000 Right.
02:26:20.000 But the inflammation that's happening happens while you're exercising and up to one hour after.
02:26:25.000 One hour after, that's when the whole hormetic response kicks in.
02:26:29.000 And this has been shown in multiple studies.
02:26:31.000 One hour seems to be when the anti-inflammatory response kicks in.
02:26:35.000 So you've generated the inflammation and then now you've got the anti-inflammatory effects.
02:26:39.000 If you do a cold exposure within that hour after exercising, it's possible you may blunt some of the inflammatory effects that the exercise is inducing because the cold is activating anti-inflammatory genes too early.
02:26:54.000 Now, I don't know that for certain, but I do know that there was one study that showed strength training if you did cryotherapy immediately after.
02:27:05.000 It was actually cold water immersion, which is not the same as the cryo chamber, that it blunted some of the anabolic signaling.
02:27:13.000 And so there was like some of the muscle mass was not gained.
02:27:17.000 But, you know, there's other studies that have been done that have shown, for some reason, all the endurance guys, they always wait an hour.
02:27:24.000 It's kind of weird.
02:27:25.000 So what I'm wondering is if people that are doing this research, like, Sit down, take a step back.
02:27:32.000 You know, people are always in this, I gotta publish, I gotta publish, you know.
02:27:35.000 There's a real big publish or perish mentality in science where it's like, your bread and butter depends on you publishing.
02:27:40.000 And so you're just constantly trying to get that data out there.
02:27:44.000 But you really, I think...
02:27:46.000 Things are so complicated.
02:27:47.000 Just sit down, take a look at everything that's out there and start to go, wait a minute.
02:27:50.000 There's lots of little details that need to be considered to design this trial correctly.
02:27:55.000 So I'm hoping that, at least for those people doing strength training, that they'll do one where they actually wait until an hour.
02:28:01.000 Because there's been other studies where that strength training in combination with cryotherapy done much later, even the next day, there were actually benefits, performance benefits.
02:28:12.000 Like they were able to do more of those leg curl things.
02:28:15.000 I don't know what they're called.
02:28:16.000 Leg extensions?
02:28:16.000 Yes, leg extensions, those.
02:28:18.000 You know, so, you know, I don't really know what's going on, but what I do know is that it seems as though it's very likely that doing the cryotherapy, like, immediately after...
02:28:27.000 And now, then again, if you're talking about someone that's doing, like, there's been studies that have been published showing that people that are doing two bouts of exercise, so they're, like, riding a bike and then they're waiting, whatever, 30 minutes, and then they go and...
02:28:42.000 Run or something.
02:28:44.000 If they do cold water immersion in between those, they actually have performance enhancements.
02:28:49.000 You know, if they wait...
02:28:51.000 Sorry, if they do it between two bouts of exercise.
02:28:54.000 Some of that's due to the fact that the cold water...
02:28:56.000 It seems to improve heart rate variability.
02:28:59.000 It's actually been shown to improve it by like two to threefold.
02:29:02.000 So heart rate variability is the change in oscillation between heartbeats.
02:29:07.000 And it's also people...
02:29:10.000 People judge the heart recovery from a workout.
02:29:12.000 So as soon as you're done with an intense workout, the ability of your heart rate to lower immediately within minutes, that's like a marker of heart rate variability.
02:29:19.000 And it's supposed to be good because your heart's able to deal with these stressful changes, you know, because when you're making cortisol or something, your heart starts racing more or some of these other stress hormones.
02:29:30.000 So it's been shown to improve that and being able to have your heart rate slower right after a workout and then you're immediately going to do a workout again, you could imagine there would be an performance enhancement with So, there's also a difference in the physiological response between cold water immersion and cryotherapy,
02:29:48.000 right?
02:29:49.000 Well, it depends.
02:29:51.000 There are differences in the ability for those two different modalities to extract heat from the body.
02:29:57.000 If we're talking about submerging ourselves in cold water up to our shoulders, Water or ice is much better at extracting heat from the body than air.
02:30:12.000 But surface area also plays a role in the temperature change.
02:30:15.000 So if you're sitting in cold water that's 57 degrees, that's not as cold as going into a minus 180 or whatever cryo chamber.
02:30:24.000 But you can also sit in the cold water for a lot longer.
02:30:27.000 Yeah, most guys do it for 15 minutes.
02:30:29.000 I think that there has been a study that compared the norepinephrine release.
02:30:34.000 20 seconds at 40-degree water up to the shoulders is comparable to two minutes at minus standard something 180, minus 180 Fahrenheit.
02:30:44.000 For norepinephrine.
02:30:45.000 For norepinephrine.
02:30:46.000 But a lot of the effects are mediated from norepinephrine.
02:30:49.000 But listen, 20 seconds at 40-degree versus two minutes.
02:30:52.000 So imagine staying in the water for five minutes.
02:30:56.000 And this has been shown.
02:30:57.000 So if you have someone that stays in water, 57 degree water, for an hour, they increase their norepinephrine by fivefold instead of twofold.
02:31:04.000 So you have a more robust response.
02:31:06.000 So it could be good, but it could be bad.
02:31:09.000 If you're talking about doing it right after a strength training session and jump into cold water for five minutes, that could have some very potent anti-inflammatory effects.
02:31:19.000 So the best way to handle it would be to wait at least an hour.
02:31:23.000 I think.
02:31:24.000 Yeah.
02:31:25.000 That makes sense.
02:31:26.000 What about anti-inflammatory markers in the blood?
02:31:30.000 So there have been studies that have shown that cryotherapy lowers C-reactive protein, which would be an inflammatory marker, and then the glutathione-related enzymes going up, and also superoxide dismutase, that would be a marker for inflammation because there's also decreased inflammation when you have more of those.
02:31:48.000 So cryotherapy does.
02:31:50.000 And then also there's been measurements of TNF-alpha going down, like I said.
02:31:54.000 Also another Marker that macrophages release, macrophage, inhibitory protein or something.
02:32:00.000 Some inflammatory molecule that's made.
02:32:04.000 There's less of it when cold water...
02:32:07.000 I can't remember if it was cold water immersion or cryotherapy, but it's cold exposure.
02:32:11.000 And that was mediated through norepinephrine.
02:32:13.000 Norepinephrine mediates a lot of stuff.
02:32:14.000 It's mediating the brain effects.
02:32:16.000 It's mediating the thermogenesis.
02:32:17.000 It's anti-inflammatory.
02:32:19.000 It's anti-pain.
02:32:19.000 People get injected with norepinephrine in their spine to alleviate pain.
02:32:24.000 Yes, because it's anti-inflammatory.
02:32:26.000 Wow.
02:32:27.000 Jesus.
02:32:27.000 There's probably other things going on as well.
02:32:29.000 So, just science.
02:32:32.000 Just the hard science.
02:32:33.000 There's plenty of evidence that there's benefits to cryotherapy.
02:32:35.000 Oh, yeah.
02:32:36.000 There's plenty of evidence.
02:32:37.000 So why would anybody write an article like that?
02:32:40.000 Like I said, there's the bad article that was the anabolic blunting effects, which was done immediately after exercise, which made a huge splash because it's like, whoa, your gains.
02:32:53.000 And then you have the hardcore, very skeptical people that are like, well...
02:32:59.000 The quality of data, you know, well, the thing is, is that there's a large body of data.
02:33:04.000 And sometimes if you can't have a double-blinded placebo-controlled trial, then you have to look at mechanism.
02:33:09.000 You have to look at animal studies combined with human studies.
02:33:12.000 You have to understand what's going on.
02:33:14.000 You can't refute the norepinephrine.
02:33:16.000 We know that norepinephrine is doing all these things, you know.
02:33:18.000 So I think you just have to be very comprehensive, especially when there's the argument that there's no placebo-controlled trials or It's too subjective.
02:33:30.000 But there's lots of ways that it's not subjective.
02:33:32.000 And this has been measured in people.
02:33:33.000 People have measured C-reactive protein.
02:33:35.000 They've measured these enzyme activities.
02:33:37.000 They've measured these inflammatory molecules in people, also in animals.
02:33:44.000 When I say that there are absolutely health benefits from doing cold exposure for your brain, anti-inflammatory, for thermogenesis.
02:33:53.000 This is actually a target.
02:33:56.000 I know a lot of researchers that are working on this.
02:33:59.000 They're trying to find a way to pharmacologically brown fat because it increases fat burning and weight loss.
02:34:08.000 So with a pill?
02:34:09.000 Of course.
02:34:11.000 People always try to do that with a pill.
02:34:12.000 I prefer the cold exposure, but other things do it.
02:34:17.000 Fish oil was shown to recently do that to increase brown adipose tissue.
02:34:22.000 Just fish oil and plant-based omega-6 and 3s?
02:34:25.000 No, no, no.
02:34:27.000 So the fish oil, it was two grams of EPA and one gram of DHA. And it increased fat burning by like 27% or something during exercise.
02:34:39.000 And then at resting, it increased it by something in the teens, 17 or 13%.
02:34:44.000 And that was just at rest, fat burning.
02:34:46.000 And the way it was shown, the way it did it was by increasing UCP-1.
02:34:50.000 Yeah.
02:35:13.000 And actually, there's a lot of important things to consider.
02:35:17.000 One is that alpha-linolenic acid is poorly converted.
02:35:21.000 All these are long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids.
02:35:26.000 Alpha-linolenic acid is 18. EPA is 20. Eicosapentaenoic acid, which is found in fish.
02:35:32.000 And then DHA is 22. So basically, your body will take the alpha-linolenic, which is in plants, flaxseeds, Walnuts.
02:35:41.000 And it will start adding carbons on to make the other ones because you need the other ones.
02:35:45.000 30% of your brain is made of DHA. I mean, DHA is very important.
02:35:48.000 But the thing is, is that men actually only convert about 8% of alpha-linolenic acid into EPA and only 4% into DHA. Not very much.
02:36:01.000 Now, estrogen actually can increase the gene that converts those because...
02:36:09.000 Women are the ones that are, you know, carrying the child and DHA is very important for the developing brain.
02:36:14.000 Very, very important.
02:36:15.000 So it makes sense that nature would make a way to be able to do that with the plant version.
02:36:19.000 But the thing is, is that there's been a study that showed that people that take preformed ALA, alpha linoleic acid, have to take 33.5 times more than preformed DHA or EPA to get the same amount of DHA and EPA in the brain.
02:36:34.000 It's a lot.
02:36:35.000 There's a lot.
02:36:36.000 So there are ways around...
02:36:38.000 There are vegan or vegetarian-friendly sources, which would be microalgae oil.
02:36:45.000 I personally think that vegans and vegetarians should take microalgae oil.
02:36:50.000 If I was a vegan, which I can't ever see myself becoming one, but I would absolutely take that.
02:36:55.000 Why do you not see yourself ever becoming one?
02:36:58.000 Because there are important micronutrients in meat that are important for a variety of physiological functions including the brain, red blood cells.
02:37:08.000 You can supplement with some stuff but I haven't convinced myself not to eat meat.
02:37:15.000 So I think with vegans, what they're trying to do is come up with sort of an ethical workaround.
02:37:21.000 They're trying to figure out how can you be healthy and live a vegan diet, and is it healthy enough?
02:37:28.000 And most of them, at least the hardcore proselytizing ones, seem to think yes, and they want everybody else to do it too.
02:37:36.000 Yeah, there are a lot of benefits.
02:37:39.000 There are a lot of positive factors to eating a more vegan-like diet.
02:37:45.000 All the fiber you're getting.
02:37:48.000 I do know there are some vegans that eat a lot of processed junk.
02:37:51.000 Not everyone that's vegan is healthy, but not everyone that's omnivore is healthy.
02:37:55.000 Right.
02:37:55.000 But the ones that are eating healthy, they're getting a wide, broad spectrum of plants.
02:38:01.000 They're getting different fibers.
02:38:02.000 They're getting the good micronutrients in plants, the magnesium, the vitamin K, the folate, vitamin C. And they're getting all the hormetic compounds in the plants.
02:38:12.000 So those are really good things.
02:38:13.000 But the problem is...
02:38:14.000 Um, is that they're, they're more nutritionally deficient in things that most people in the Western world are not because the problem with the, like the United States in general isn't that we eat enough meat here.
02:38:27.000 Most people, unless you're vegan or vegetarian, people are eating enough meat.
02:38:29.000 The problem is people aren't eating enough of their greens.
02:38:31.000 And so I usually focus on micronutrients that are found in greens because that's what people are not getting enough of.
02:38:36.000 But there are important micronutrients that are in meat, um, That vegans and vegetarians are more subject to being deficient in.
02:38:45.000 Like?
02:38:46.000 B12. So B12 and iron are two really important ones.
02:38:51.000 Both of these are very...
02:38:53.000 So B12 is very important for...
02:38:56.000 The production of neurotransmitters and myelin in the brain.
02:38:59.000 Both iron and B12 are.
02:39:01.000 Most people think of iron as being important for your blood cells, and it is.
02:39:04.000 It's bound to something called heme, which is a protein inside hemoglobin that's important for transporting oxygen to your tissues because you need oxygen to make energy.
02:39:14.000 So, but the other thing that Iron's doing is it's also important for making myelin in the brain.
02:39:21.000 Myelin is what surrounds the axons of your neurons and it allows them to communicate quickly.
02:39:26.000 It allows electrical signals to It signals to be transported quickly.
02:39:30.000 So that's important.
02:39:31.000 And then it makes neurotransmitters.
02:39:33.000 Like you need iron to make serotonin in your brain.
02:39:35.000 And it's one of the reasons why during pregnancy, iron is very...
02:39:39.000 Like if you have iron deficiency during pregnancy, it can cause abnormal brain structure.
02:39:43.000 It can cause like birth defects because it shapes the structure and the wiring of the brain.
02:39:49.000 So that's, you know, obviously here...
02:39:52.000 In the United States, we have supplements, we have access to supplements, and you can take a sublingual B12. It's a little bit of a different world than it is somewhere in a developing country.
02:40:04.000 But B12, it's animal-based, so how are they getting plant-based B12? Is there a plant that has B12 in it in large numbers?
02:40:13.000 So B12 is actually made by certain strains of bacteria.
02:40:17.000 And the reason it's high in meat is because it gets, you know, animals are predators and so it gets concentrated in their muscle.
02:40:23.000 It gets concentrated in animal tissue.
02:40:26.000 But what about animals that are herbivores?
02:40:28.000 I mean, does it still exist in them even if they're not predators?
02:40:30.000 Yeah.
02:40:31.000 Because they're eating a variety of things that have the bacteria.
02:40:37.000 Like there's certain strains of mushrooms that have it.
02:40:40.000 If you're a vegan or a vegetarian and you're just eating those mushrooms, you'd have to eat an enormous amount to get the RDA. But it's more concentrated in animal meat, which are constantly eating it.
02:40:50.000 So it gets concentrated in their tissues because B12 is required as a cofactor for a lot of enzymes in multiple organs, including their muscles.
02:40:59.000 Every time they're eating whatever...
02:41:14.000 So the argument that a vegan can get enough V12 from just a standard vegan diet without supplementing, you don't buy that?
02:41:23.000 No, I don't.
02:41:24.000 So there was a study that was done in Tanzania.
02:41:31.000 So there's a few researchers, UCLA actually is where, I think one of them just retired, but there was some researchers at UCLA that were studying the effects of B12 and iron deficiency hormones.
02:41:45.000 On cognition, on, you know, learning, cognition, behavior.
02:41:50.000 And there was a bunch of studies that were associative studies, like that crappy, premature ejaculation, obesity, where it's like, you know, these two things are associated, but we don't know if it's causing.
02:42:00.000 And so there was an association with low B12, low iron, and poor IQ, lower IQ, poor cognition, poor behavior, and But there was no real causal, you know, role identified.
02:42:13.000 And so there's a couple of researchers at UCLA that did two different clinical trials, where there was 12 different schools in Tanzania that were selected.
02:42:24.000 And these clinical trials lasted two years, and there was two of them.
02:42:27.000 The first trial was 575 kids, or around 600, and the other one was like 350. Yeah.
02:42:50.000 And that's their standard porridge.
02:42:52.000 And so the trial was designed where these school kids, they were given a snack every single day for two years.
02:42:57.000 Either the porridge, or they got the porridge with a glass of milk, or they got the porridge with meat.
02:43:04.000 And every three to six months, there were arithmetic and reading tests done.
02:43:09.000 So they were looking, trying to measure, you know, cognitive performance.
02:43:13.000 They measured physical performance and muscle mass.
02:43:18.000 And what the results were of this study was that the porridge with the meat, so the school children that were eating the meat with the porridge, scored better on math arithmetic.
02:43:28.000 They scored better on reading tests.
02:43:31.000 They had more muscle mass and they grew more than the other school children that did not get the meat.
02:43:37.000 And they also, so that's all quantitative, they also performed They were more likely to exhibit leadership qualities out in the playground.
02:43:47.000 That's a little more subjective, but still interesting.
02:43:49.000 So the bottom line here is that, you know, obviously in Tanzania they're not We're good to go.
02:44:16.000 Then you will have nutritional deficiencies.
02:44:19.000 Now, the question is, if those children were given a B12 supplement or iron, would that have made a difference?
02:44:25.000 Probably.
02:44:25.000 Probably would have.
02:44:26.000 I mean, there's been studies in the United States that have been done on school children that have been deficient in certain micronutrients, and they were given a multivitamin and an omega-3 supplement, fish oil.
02:44:35.000 And only the ones that were deficient to begin with improved, like, did better on reading and arithmetic tests.
02:44:41.000 So there's definitely, you know, an argument to be made there.
02:44:44.000 But I think...
02:44:46.000 I think for vegetarians, we live in a very different time.
02:44:50.000 Obviously, there's protein powders and quinoa and hemp seed and B12 sublingual.
02:44:56.000 And what are they getting B12 from if it's a vegan-based B12? I don't...
02:45:02.000 Oh, is that like...
02:45:04.000 Is it possible?
02:45:05.000 I thought it was just like methylcobalamin.
02:45:08.000 So I don't think that there's...
02:45:11.000 It's not me.
02:45:11.000 It's just synthetic B12. Okay, so how are they synthesizing it?
02:45:16.000 I don't know.
02:45:17.000 You're going beyond my knowledge base there.
02:45:20.000 Okay, but so it is possible to get both iron and B12 from...
02:45:25.000 Yeah, so B12 is...
02:45:26.000 I mean, a lot of vegetarians supplement with B12. I mean, they know.
02:45:30.000 And sublingual is important because there's also gene polymorphisms that affect the way your gut absorbs B12. So people have to bypass that.
02:45:39.000 You can put it under your tongue.
02:45:40.000 So sublingual is the optimal way to take it.
02:45:41.000 Yeah, I think for anyone.
02:45:43.000 So if someone's a vegan, what are the supplements they should take?
02:45:46.000 You think B12, iron, what else?
02:45:48.000 Well, with iron, it's kind of tricky, I just want to mention, because, you know, iron, a lot of vegans think that they can get their iron from their diet, because iron's also found in beans.
02:45:56.000 It's in plants, it's in spinach, but the way it's bound, it's bound in something called phytate, which we cannot digest.
02:46:04.000 And so the bioavailability of iron is 1.8 times less in...
02:46:11.000 I think?
02:46:41.000 Multiplying by 1.8 is already important if you're just getting it from food because the bioavailability of the iron is almost twofold less than from meat.
02:46:49.000 So that's one thing to consider.
02:46:51.000 And the other thing is also athletes.
02:46:53.000 So when you're like an endurance athlete, you actually – hemolysis occurs, red blood cells, lice.
02:47:00.000 When you're doing, like, very intense endurance training.
02:47:03.000 And so you lose iron there, too, because you're losing red blood cells.
02:47:07.000 Iron's tricky because you don't want too much of it.
02:47:10.000 It's like, if you're supplementing, like, it's not...
02:47:12.000 There's no guesswork here.
02:47:13.000 There's no guesswork with iron.
02:47:15.000 Having...
02:47:16.000 So having too much...
02:47:17.000 When you take too much free...
02:47:19.000 Supplemental iron, it can cause free iron inside your cells, and that is dynamite.
02:47:25.000 It reacts with enzymes in your body, and it screws up energy production.
02:47:30.000 It causes lots of damage.
02:47:32.000 It's really, really bad.
02:47:33.000 It's really bad to get too much iron.
02:47:34.000 So this is supplemental iron, not iron from actual food-based sources?
02:47:38.000 No, it's tightly regulated.
02:47:39.000 But when you start to do supplemental iron, yeah.
02:47:42.000 So I think that...
02:47:43.000 And then there's gene poly...
02:47:44.000 Some people, like Dan has one.
02:47:46.000 I've seen lots of people's DNA where they have...
02:47:49.000 There's a variation in a gene that can lead to too much iron overload.
02:47:55.000 It's called hemochromatosis.
02:47:58.000 And it is very common.
02:48:00.000 And if you have one of those genes and you're taking supplemental iron, you have even more free irons.
02:48:06.000 It's very bad.
02:48:07.000 Very bad.
02:48:08.000 So I think that people should definitely...
02:48:10.000 And I don't know what all the blood levels.
02:48:12.000 There's different markers that you can measure.
02:48:13.000 Your physician will know.
02:48:14.000 But getting iron levels measured is important if you're going to start supplementing.
02:48:18.000 And when you do supplement with iron, is it important to take it with food, with fats?
02:48:25.000 What is the absorption?
02:48:27.000 When is it optimum?
02:48:28.000 Vitamin C dramatically increases the absorption of non-heme iron.
02:48:34.000 So iron that's not found in meat.
02:48:36.000 So even actually people, vegetarians that are eating a bunch of beans, legumes, first of all, they need to eat 1.8 times more than they would have meat.
02:48:45.000 But they also, if they eat it with citrus fruit or have some berries or broccoli is high in vitamin C, have it with your beans.
02:48:51.000 That would make a difference in increasing the bioavailability of the iron.
02:48:56.000 So that would be important.
02:48:58.000 That's a fascinating aspect of food supplement or supplementation is eating it with the right foods and making sure that you, you know, some things you don't want to eat with any food at all and some things you want to have on a full stomach.
02:49:10.000 Or you want fat like the fat soluble vitamins, carotenoids, even vitamin D. The vitamins that are soluble in fat are the bioavailability is increased when you take it with fat.
02:49:22.000 And so that would be another one, actually.
02:49:24.000 A lot of vegetarians probably think they're getting enough vitamin A because beta carotene, which is in plants, can be converted into vitamin A. Vitamin A is actually...
02:49:35.000 It actually becomes a hormone, and it works much like vitamin D. Not quite the same, but it does change.
02:49:41.000 It activates genes, turns genes off, does all this stuff.
02:49:44.000 So it's very important for immune function, for your eye, for vision.
02:49:47.000 But the bioavailability of beta-carotene is very low.
02:49:53.000 We don't absorb it very well.
02:49:54.000 Fat increases that bioavailability, so taking it with fat because they are fat-soluble.
02:49:58.000 The carotenoids, beta-carotene is fat-soluble.
02:50:01.000 And also, there are gene polymorphisms that People have.
02:50:06.000 So they don't convert beta carotene into vitamin A very well.
02:50:09.000 Like my brother-in-law has one where he doesn't at all very well.
02:50:12.000 So he has to actually get vitamin A from an animal source.
02:50:16.000 Or you can get retinal acetate.
02:50:19.000 I don't know.
02:50:19.000 I think it's synthetic.
02:50:20.000 But that's something that some vegetarians may consider.
02:50:23.000 Not all of them, but some.
02:50:24.000 Just considering whether or not they have that gene polymorphism.
02:50:27.000 I think the main ones are iron, B12... Omega-3.
02:50:32.000 And vitamin D, you know, 70% of the population doesn't get enough vitamin D. But vegetarians often think they're getting enough vitamin D because you make it from the sun.
02:50:41.000 But, you know, the problem is that so many factors regulate that because...
02:50:46.000 So UVB radiation has to hit your skin to make it.
02:50:49.000 And so if you're wearing sunscreen or you have a lot of melanin, so if you've got like dark pigmentation that blocks it out, latitude where you live, so UVB rays don't hit the atmosphere at certain times of the year in certain regions.
02:51:03.000 So you're only three or four months out of the year can make vitamin D from the sun.
02:51:08.000 And then age.
02:51:09.000 As you get older, a 70-year-old makes only 25% of the vitamin D that they made when they were 20 years old.
02:51:16.000 Wow.
02:51:17.000 Yeah, so all these factors play a role.
02:51:19.000 And there is a vitamin, I know I was talking to Rich Roll about this, because vitamin D supplements, D3. The plant form is D2. It's made by mushrooms.
02:51:29.000 Mushrooms also make vitamin D when they're exposed to sun.
02:51:31.000 The plant form doesn't get converted into the hormone very well.
02:51:34.000 And also, there's been two recent studies that have shown that D2 may actually inhibit D3's function in muscle.
02:51:42.000 So it actually has negative effects in muscle tissue, taking too much D2. Yeah, so D3 is the best supplement form.
02:51:51.000 And most of the D3 on the markets from...
02:51:54.000 Lanolin, which is like secreted from sheep skin or something.
02:51:58.000 I don't know.
02:51:58.000 I don't think that's vegan friendly, but there is a type of algae, lichen, that makes vitamin D. Lichen's an algae?
02:52:08.000 I don't know what it is.
02:52:09.000 It's like a white plant.
02:52:10.000 Is it?
02:52:11.000 It's a weird, funky stuff that grows in Alaska.
02:52:14.000 Oh, it's a fungus?
02:52:14.000 Okay.
02:52:15.000 Yeah, it's like a moss almost.
02:52:17.000 Pull that up.
02:52:18.000 Lichen.
02:52:19.000 Yeah, it's something that I know caribou eat a lot of.
02:52:23.000 Black-tailed deer.
02:52:24.000 It's like a white, tasteless sort of a grass that they exist on.
02:52:29.000 Not a grass, but almost like a...
02:52:31.000 It's weird.
02:52:33.000 It's a weird plant.
02:52:34.000 Here, let me show you.
02:52:35.000 That's what it looks like.
02:52:37.000 What is that, Jess?
02:52:38.000 Oh, that is kind of weird looking.
02:52:40.000 Yeah.
02:52:41.000 It's weird stuff.
02:52:43.000 Yeah, you find it all over the place on Prince Edward Island in Alaska was the first place I came in contact with it.
02:52:48.000 And I was like, what is this?
02:52:49.000 Yeah, this is definitely not algae.
02:52:51.000 Black-tailed deer, eat a lot of some kind of a plant.
02:52:54.000 Yeah, it's a plant that...
02:52:54.000 So you can get D3 from that?
02:52:56.000 Yeah, there's a company that makes D3 from that.
02:52:59.000 So there are vegan-friendly sources of it.
02:53:01.000 So if they do want to eat vegan, it is possible to get a fully balanced diet.
02:53:06.000 And then the protein would be the other thing, right?
02:53:08.000 Yeah.
02:53:09.000 Because the essential amino acids are...
02:53:11.000 Typically found in animal protein.
02:53:14.000 So those are like leucine, isoleucine, tryptophan, phenylalanine.
02:53:21.000 I don't know.
02:53:21.000 There's nine of them.
02:53:22.000 They just exist in really low doses in most plant-based proteins.
02:53:28.000 Is that what the problem is?
02:53:29.000 No.
02:53:30.000 Yeah.
02:53:30.000 Very, very, very low doses.
02:53:32.000 But you can get some that have higher doses like hemp seed and then quinoa.
02:53:38.000 So those are the only two?
02:53:40.000 I'm sure there's more.
02:53:41.000 There's only two I know of.
02:53:42.000 So they have really a full amino acid profile.
02:53:46.000 Right.
02:53:47.000 And they have the essential ones that you need.
02:53:49.000 And keep in mind, the essential proteins, the branched chain amino acids, that's what's actually taken up into muscle cells.
02:53:56.000 And there's been studies that have been done just doing plant protein without the essential amino acids.
02:54:02.000 You can't gain muscle mass after doing strength training.
02:54:07.000 Like you can if you take in...
02:54:09.000 The essential amino acids because you need those to be taken up into muscle to build proteins.
02:54:15.000 Well, there's some of the weird vegan arguments that they repeat almost as if it's fact, but that's not.
02:54:21.000 And one of them is that saturated fats and that saturated fats are somehow or another bad for you.
02:54:26.000 Yeah, so that's a very confusing literature, I think.
02:54:34.000 Saturated fats in and of themselves aren't necessarily bad, unless you have...
02:54:39.000 There are certain gene polymorphisms in...
02:54:42.000 So PPR alpha, PPR gamma, FTO genes.
02:54:47.000 If you have a gene polymorphism in one of these three genes...
02:54:53.000 Because when you eat saturated fat, it needs to be metabolized, transported to the right place.
02:54:59.000 You don't want it just sitting around as fatty acids in your bloodstream.
02:55:03.000 Well, those genes that I just mentioned, they play a role in doing that.
02:55:06.000 Some people don't activate them very well.
02:55:08.000 And so if they have a high saturated fat and a low poly or monounsaturated fat intake, they can actually have We're good to go.
02:55:41.000 So that's one thing, but that's the smaller thing.
02:55:43.000 The real problem with saturated fat is actually sugar.
02:55:48.000 The problem is that saturated fat increases the production of LDL cholesterol, which isn't necessarily bad, unless you have massive inflammation from eating refined carbohydrates, and specifically from eating sucrose or fructose corn syrup.
02:56:06.000 I know.
02:56:30.000 Wow.
02:56:32.000 Wow.
02:56:34.000 Wow.
02:56:39.000 But like my mother-in-law, she watched the video and she had done a lipid panel where her physician had measured her LDL particle, measured particle size, measured triglycerides, all these things and wanted to get her on statins because she had really high cholesterol.
02:56:57.000 Turns out, I knew why she had high cholesterol.
02:57:00.000 She has high cholesterol because she has gene polymorphism in the ApoE4, which prevents cholesterol from being recycled.
02:57:06.000 So that's why she has high cholesterol.
02:57:08.000 So she watched this video and she learned all about the particle size and that it's the small dense ones that are really an indicator of cardiovascular disease.
02:57:15.000 And her small dense were like, she had none.
02:57:17.000 It was all the good kind.
02:57:19.000 LDL cholesterol is important because anytime you make a new cell, you need cholesterol.
02:57:23.000 Cholesterol is made of cell membranes.
02:57:25.000 Every time you're making a new kidney or liver cell, you need cholesterol.
02:57:27.000 When you have damage, when you hit yourself or you're doing your workout and your muscles get a little damaged, you need cholesterol there to repair that damage.
02:57:35.000 So you need it.
02:57:36.000 If you don't have it, you're in trouble.
02:57:38.000 But anyways, the point is that the saturated fat, that's why there's so much confusion.
02:57:44.000 It's because, one, gene polymorphisms.
02:57:47.000 Two, People are now starting to tease apart that it's actually the combination of eating refined carbohydrates and saturated fat.
02:57:54.000 If you just have the saturated fat and you're eating vegetables and good things as well, then you're not going to have all that inflammation.
02:58:01.000 You're not going to make small, dense LDL particles.
02:58:03.000 I talked about this with you last time.
02:58:04.000 That's what makes the small, dense LDL's inflammation.
02:58:07.000 So when you have the small, dense, because a certain protein gets obscured, it causes it to stick to the walls of your blood vessels very easy.
02:58:17.000 So that's kind of the danger, because then you start to accumulate a plaque there.
02:58:20.000 So this totally makes sense when you talk about the amount of heart disease that exists in people that have this typical American diet, which is high in saturated fat, but also high in high fructose corn syrup, processed sugars.
02:58:32.000 And low in vegetables, yeah.
02:58:34.000 I mean, here's the thing, and this is the problem with all those studies, those studies that are correlations, is that you're looking at Yes, they're eating meat.
02:58:44.000 Yes, they're eating saturated fat.
02:58:46.000 But they're also not eating vegetables.
02:58:48.000 They're also eating cake and crackers and chips and hamburger buns and all that stuff.
02:58:54.000 Sedentary lifestyle.
02:58:55.000 Sedentary lifestyle, all those things.
02:58:57.000 So these studies, you have to really take it with a grain of salt.
02:59:04.000 I think?
02:59:19.000 How many of them eat meat?
02:59:21.000 Well, probably like 95% of them are going to eat meat.
02:59:23.000 And then you ask them, what's their vegetable intake?
02:59:26.000 How many refined carbohydrates do you take in?
02:59:30.000 They're all going to be not eating vegetables and they're going to be eating their cake and chips and their hot dog buns.
02:59:39.000 So to blame it all on...
02:59:43.000 To blame it all on saturated fats is wrong.
02:59:46.000 It is.
02:59:47.000 Some people can have a problem when they have too high of a saturated fat intake, even if they're eating other healthy stuff.
02:59:55.000 Like I said, because the gene that's activated that helps metabolize the fat, break it up, transports it to where it goes, isn't getting turned on well.
03:00:04.000 Well, those genes get turned on by polyunsaturated fatty acids.
03:00:07.000 And so if you eat a ratio, if you're eating saturated fat, which is dairy, you know, some pork, I don't know, red meat, mostly, like, if you get a lean cut, it's not even actually that high in saturated fat compared to dairy or cheese or butter.
03:00:23.000 There's just so much misinformation.
03:00:24.000 So many people spout out this misinformation as fact, too.
03:00:28.000 It's just so frustrating to communicate with people about it.
03:00:30.000 Yeah, it is frustrating.
03:00:30.000 The other thing is that people actually will notice there's a problem in their...
03:00:54.000 And cholesterol in and of itself is not a bad thing.
03:00:58.000 No.
03:01:00.000 No.
03:01:00.000 Cholesterol, you need cholesterol.
03:01:02.000 You need it.
03:01:03.000 You need it, like I said.
03:01:04.000 You need your own body's production of it.
03:01:06.000 Yes.
03:01:06.000 But you also need to take some in.
03:01:08.000 Yes.
03:01:09.000 Exactly.
03:01:10.000 Well, taking in dietary cholesterol doesn't even raise your body's cholesterol.
03:01:13.000 Saturated fat will raise your body's cholesterol.
03:01:16.000 Dietary cholesterol from eggs, it's like nothing.
03:01:19.000 It doesn't do anything.
03:01:19.000 Did you see that, Michael Shermer?
03:01:21.000 Ron Krauss showed that.
03:01:25.000 Taking in dietary cholesterol doesn't even move the dial for your body's cholesterol production.
03:01:30.000 It's so funny because so many people think it does.
03:01:32.000 You know what really moves it?
03:01:33.000 Stress.
03:01:34.000 Stress dramatically increases cholesterol production.
03:01:38.000 You know why?
03:01:39.000 Because when you're stressed, your body starts to make cholesterol.
03:01:43.000 It makes BLDL lipoproteins, which have cholesterol in them, because it sops up...
03:01:50.000 It sops up what's called endotoxin, which is released when you're stressed or inflamed.
03:01:54.000 And you want to sop it up because it can cause lots of damage.
03:01:57.000 So you start to make cholesterol.
03:01:59.000 And what ends up happening is when you're inflamed, your body will turn off the production.
03:02:05.000 It basically starts making something called malonyl-CoA, which is important to make these very low-dense particle lipoproteins I was talking about.
03:02:15.000 But what it also does is it inhibits your body from being able to metabolize fat with the exception of medium-chain triglycerides because it inhibits the transporter.
03:02:25.000 There's a transporter on mitochondria called CPT that is inhibited when your body's inflamed because it's making that malonyl-CoA.
03:02:33.000 And when that transporter is inhibited, you're polyunsaturated, you're saturated, all like 99% of the dietary fat you take in is not getting used.
03:02:42.000 So it gets stored or it's like you have fatty acids in your bloodstream and can raise triglycerides and things.
03:02:48.000 So it can be really bad.
03:02:49.000 But MCTs bypass that.
03:02:50.000 MCTs don't need that transporter.
03:02:52.000 We just blew through three hours again.
03:02:55.000 Yeah, that's awesome.
03:02:56.000 Blew through it.
03:02:58.000 Feels like it was 20 minutes.
03:02:59.000 It's crazy.
03:03:00.000 It really is crazy.
03:03:02.000 Yeah.
03:03:03.000 These are ridiculous conversations.
03:03:04.000 Thank you very much.
03:03:06.000 You're awesome.
03:03:06.000 Dude, thanks, Joe.
03:03:07.000 As always, I'm going to have to go over this 50 times with a notebook to try to get half of it.
03:03:12.000 FoundMyFitness.com.
03:03:14.000 FoundMyFitness on Twitter.
03:03:15.000 What else?
03:03:16.000 Yeah, the genetic tool I've got.
03:03:18.000 People can check that out.
03:03:19.000 FoundMyFitness.com forward slash genetics.
03:03:21.000 And then I've got a podcast on iTunes.
03:03:23.000 I did the cryotherapy.
03:03:24.000 I talk all about that.
03:03:25.000 And how do they get to that?
03:03:26.000 What is it?
03:03:27.000 On iTunes?
03:03:28.000 What's it called?
03:03:28.000 Found My Fitness.
03:03:29.000 Oh, that's good.
03:03:30.000 Found My Fitness.
03:03:31.000 One brand.
03:03:32.000 Yeah.
03:03:33.000 Thank you so much.
03:03:34.000 You're awesome.
03:03:34.000 I can't say enough.
03:03:35.000 Thanks, Joe.
03:03:36.000 These are the best conversations.
03:03:37.000 I look forward to them, and I'm really, really appreciative that you do these.
03:03:41.000 Thank you so much.
03:03:42.000 Bye, everybody.
03:03:43.000 Bye, everybody.