The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #898 - Bas Rutten & Mauro Ranallo

00:00:05.000 Morrow's a pecking and a poking over there.

00:00:07.000 Oh, I'm ready.

00:00:08.000 I'm ready.

00:00:09.000 Morrow and the great Boss Rutten, the dynamic duo of Pride fighting championships back in the day.

00:00:09.000 We're live.

00:00:16.000 Classic fights.

00:00:17.000 You guys are attached to some of the greatest fights of all time.

00:00:20.000 We are.

00:00:20.000 I used to tell him every time after a single fight, I say, because at the time it was six billion people, I go, hey, understand, two in six billion people just did the commentating for this show.

00:00:32.000 Because we love that show.

00:00:33.000 And I owe it all to this man, Mr. Rogan.

00:00:36.000 Boss Rooten, in many ways, saved my life.

00:00:40.000 Uh-oh.

00:00:40.000 This is getting dark early.

00:00:42.000 Yeah.

00:00:43.000 I thought we were going to go down a happy road, but nope.

00:00:45.000 Mauro Ranallo wants to immediately go down the boss route and save my life road.

00:00:49.000 Let's keep it positive because my two worlds collided on my very first event in Pride at Bushido 1, October 5th, 2003. Pro wrestler?

00:00:49.000 No, no, no.

00:01:00.000 Dull Scottis Jr., remember the guy in the mask?

00:01:03.000 Sure.

00:01:03.000 And they had to actually cut out even bigger eye holes because he was fighting Miracle Crow Cop, the one.

00:01:10.000 And can you imagine a commission in North America would never allow that?

00:01:16.000 And yet...

00:01:17.000 Did you see the recent one?

00:01:19.000 Did you see the recent one with Gabby Garcia?

00:01:21.000 The Ryzen fight?

00:01:22.000 It was scary.

00:01:23.000 I just saw like a repeat thing, like a little loop thing.

00:01:26.000 She fought an old lady. 1.00

00:01:29.000 A 52-year-old woman.

00:01:29.000 I don't know if she was 52, but whatever she was, she was hobbled.

00:01:33.000 She couldn't walk.

00:01:34.000 Her knees were totally wrapped up.

00:01:36.000 She was limping from the moment she got in there.

00:01:39.000 And then Gabby Garcia towering over this old lady. 1.00

00:01:42.000 I saw that. 0.99

00:01:43.000 She just beats the shit out of her. 1.00

00:01:46.000 I mean, it was just an assault. 0.98

00:01:48.000 Well, remember Giant Silva taking a 2x4 into the Pride ring against Takeshi Segura?

00:01:52.000 Remember Big Giant Silva?

00:01:54.000 He took a 2x4?

00:01:55.000 A 2x4.

00:01:56.000 To hit him with it?

00:01:57.000 At the end of the angle, yeah.

00:02:00.000 On a Pride fighting championship event.

00:02:02.000 Why did he do that?

00:02:03.000 It was, again, the marriage of pro wrestling and pride in many ways, the larger-than-life storylines and production could lead to things like that.

00:02:14.000 And we saw it firsthand.

00:02:15.000 The freak fights, if you will.

00:02:16.000 I mean, it wasn't a part of the actual fight.

00:02:19.000 The fight itself was there.

00:02:21.000 But remember, Alistair used to bring the axe.

00:02:25.000 There were pro wrestling-esque entrances, which...

00:02:28.000 A lot of people loved.

00:02:29.000 But was this a part of his entrance?

00:02:31.000 This was after the fight.

00:02:33.000 Or is this threatening somebody?

00:02:34.000 Yeah, this was after the fight.

00:02:36.000 Remember Takeshi Segura and Giant Silva, right?

00:02:38.000 Yeah, I remember that.

00:02:39.000 And it was like, yeah, he had the 2x4 as a plop.

00:02:42.000 Do you think it was just choreographed?

00:02:44.000 I think it was maybe a part of the presentation and not something that, like you say, he wanted to assault someone with a 2x4.

00:02:52.000 Yeah, there was a few fights in the early days that you were like, oh, okay, that's a fixed fight, right?

00:02:57.000 There's a few.

00:02:58.000 Oh, you know, listen.

00:02:59.000 Remember, it was the funniest thing ever.

00:03:01.000 Coleman was fighting Takata.

00:03:03.000 Takata, yeah.

00:03:03.000 And they told me he was going to get finished in six minutes by way of heel hook.

00:03:08.000 So now the press comes to me, and they tell me, what do you think is going to happen in this fight?

00:03:12.000 I say, oh, it's easy.

00:03:13.000 Takata's going to win.

00:03:13.000 Six minutes, heel hook.

00:03:14.000 Oh, God.

00:03:15.000 And everybody froze because this was before the fight.

00:03:18.000 So they had to change their whole gimmick, what they were going to do.

00:03:21.000 It went, like, to one and a half minute now.

00:03:23.000 But I guess I spoiled it for them.

00:03:25.000 You had the Back to the Future pride result.

00:03:28.000 They had it all planned out.

00:03:29.000 You know, everything with Takata, I would say.

00:03:31.000 Well, except Hickson, of course.

00:03:33.000 Except for Hickson.

00:03:33.000 Hickson mold Takata.

00:03:34.000 Yeah.

00:03:35.000 That was 100%.

00:03:36.000 But then, you know, Takata came in our studio training at the Beverly Hills Jiu-Jitsu Club.

00:03:39.000 We had white and blue belts tapping him.

00:03:41.000 So it was not like this guy was...

00:03:43.000 Well, he was just a big-time pro wrestler.

00:03:45.000 And that is why they wanted to...

00:03:47.000 Again, that's...

00:03:48.000 You know, you talk about how...

00:03:50.000 Pride Fighting Championships, the genesis, it was that, you know, bringing the biggest, the so-called toughest, best pro wrestler against Hicks and Gracie, the mythic Vali Tudo jiu-jitsu fighter.

00:04:02.000 The UFC had a similar but more rational approach to it recently with CM Punk versus Mickey Gall.

00:04:10.000 They said, well, let's give this CM Punk guy a kid with one fight. 1.00

00:04:14.000 One amateur fight.

00:04:15.000 I think he had at least one amateur fight and one fight in the UFC. Showed some promise, choked a guy out, and he said, okay, you're going to get a tough kid.

00:04:23.000 You're going to get a tough kid, but you're going to have to fight a real fighter, but you're not going to fight Hickson Gracie.

00:04:28.000 You know what I mean?

00:04:30.000 At that time, nobody had Jiu-Jitsu like Hickson.

00:04:33.000 He was just so above and beyond anyone.

00:04:35.000 Everything, yeah.

00:04:36.000 Unreal.

00:04:37.000 Was he 400 and 0?

00:04:38.000 No.

00:04:40.000 That's a nice wrong number.

00:04:41.000 They always threw that out.

00:04:43.000 You gotta wonder who threw that out first.

00:04:45.000 They did everyone such a disservice.

00:04:47.000 Do it like 398. Right?

00:04:49.000 That sounds way more believable than a perfect 400 and 0. What's crazy is when you see these TIE fighters who They literally do have 200 fights, and they're 20 years old.

00:04:58.000 Like there's some kids that fight for the lion fight.

00:05:00.000 Yeah, and Siddichai Sitsong Pinong, who's the lightweight champion now in Gloria.

00:05:05.000 In fact, many years ago in Canada, doing Muay Thai on TSN, the ESPN equivalent up there, same thing when you brought in the Thai fighters.

00:05:15.000 But they were, as you know, Joe, and there's a good documentary, Shameless Pugs Showtime is going to be showing a documentary about fighting in Thailand and Muay Thai, where these kids literally, that's how they survive, right?

00:05:28.000 You start at eight, nine years old, and you're on your way to hopefully...

00:05:32.000 Making enough to eat.

00:05:34.000 Did you hear that new documentary that they're doing right now?

00:05:36.000 There are people in jail, like murderers.

00:05:38.000 They get a chance to fight themselves for a pardon.

00:05:42.000 That's a new show that's going to start in a week.

00:05:44.000 That may be the documentary as well on Showtime.

00:05:47.000 The guy who played that red devil, what's his name?

00:05:50.000 In the rat suit, the guy with the horns cut off.

00:05:54.000 Famous actor.

00:05:55.000 Hellboy?

00:05:55.000 Yeah, Hellboy.

00:05:57.000 That actor.

00:05:58.000 He's also in that gang. 0.99

00:06:00.000 Goddammit. 0.98

00:06:02.000 He's narrating it.

00:06:04.000 Jamie, you know who it is.

00:06:05.000 The dude who's the star of Hellboy.

00:06:06.000 I got the documentary called Five Rounds to Freedom as well.

00:06:10.000 Yeah, but it's narrated by him.

00:06:10.000 Nice.

00:06:12.000 Pull up the page on it.

00:06:16.000 Whatever it is, yeah.

00:06:17.000 Ron Perlman.

00:06:17.000 Oh, there you go.

00:06:18.000 Oh, Ron Perlman, yes.

00:06:20.000 There you go.

00:06:21.000 Wow, that's crazy.

00:06:22.000 So what are their crimes that they're going to be absolved for?

00:06:25.000 One guy, for what I understand, that he stabbed somebody.

00:06:27.000 The state-sponsored rehabilitation program, popular known as Prison Fight, is not reserved for petty criminals.

00:06:39.000 Under the law, violent criminals, including those convicted of murder...

00:06:43.000 Hold on a second. 1.00

00:06:45.000 Our piece of shit. 1.00

00:06:46.000 See, this is the one I was talking about, boss. 1.00

00:06:48.000 Including those convicted of murder and sexual assault have been freed and in some cases fully absolved of their crimes through their participation in prison fights.

00:06:48.000 Showtime.

00:06:56.000 Well, that sounds crazy.

00:06:57.000 Airs of my birthday.

00:06:58.000 That's even crazier.

00:06:59.000 That's crazy that anybody would allow this.

00:07:02.000 All you have to do if you're a violent criminal is prove that you're more violent than the other violent criminals and you get your freedom? 1.00

00:07:08.000 That's fucking insane. 0.99

00:07:10.000 Yeah, I don't think there's a lesson to be learned for them, as it results on one final fight. 0.99

00:07:16.000 Yeah, can violent men redeem themselves through violent acts? 0.98

00:07:19.000 That's ridiculous. 0.98

00:07:19.000 Of course they can. 0.98

00:07:20.000 Well, they think probably a plus and a plus becomes a negative.

00:07:23.000 Maybe they think that way. 0.99

00:07:24.000 Yeah, but when someone did something to your sister or your daughter or your mom, and then they get out because they beat the fuck out of all the other rapists. 0.99

00:07:31.000 I 100% agree. 0.93

00:07:32.000 If you see the trailer, that's what a woman says. 1.00

00:07:35.000 He stabbed his kid in the neck, killed the kid, and now this guy is going to fight for his life to get out of there.

00:07:40.000 Because he shouldn't be...

00:07:41.000 No.

00:07:42.000 Shouldn't be legal.

00:07:43.000 That's crazy.

00:07:44.000 So, uh, back to the 400, no.

00:07:46.000 Most likely not a real number in anybody's case.

00:07:49.000 Somebody just made that up for, you know, propaganda purposes.

00:07:53.000 If they would have said over 400 or just below 400, you see, but making it 400. I love that his son is super active now.

00:08:01.000 And I love that Krohn is fighting, like, really top guys now, you know?

00:08:05.000 And he's, uh, he fought Kawajiri in his last fight. 0.99

00:08:08.000 He's a tough fucking guy. 0.98

00:08:09.000 That's a tough guy, yeah. 1.00

00:08:10.000 Choked Kawajiri out.

00:08:11.000 I always wondered what happened to Crossley Gracie.

00:08:14.000 Remember?

00:08:14.000 Man, he was so good.

00:08:15.000 He had so much potential.

00:08:17.000 He seemed to be the first Gracie, to me, to take it to the next level.

00:08:17.000 Strike, that's the thing.

00:08:21.000 Become more well-rounded and well-versed and whoop, done.

00:08:25.000 Well, I think Hodger showed really great promise until King Moe knocked him out.

00:08:29.000 Right.

00:08:30.000 And then that was a big knockout.

00:08:32.000 You know, King Moe can crack.

00:08:33.000 He's got some serious power.

00:08:34.000 He's a tremendous athlete.

00:08:36.000 Student of striking as well.

00:08:38.000 Huge boxing fan.

00:08:39.000 I'll never forget that ground-and-pound KO that he had with Seth Pazinski.

00:08:42.000 Yes.

00:08:44.000 Scary guy to have on top of you.

00:08:46.000 Oh, my God, yeah.

00:08:47.000 Throw the guard to the side and drop that right hand on you.

00:08:50.000 Like, oh, my God.

00:08:52.000 Well, Henderson, Dan Henderson.

00:08:55.000 You're talking about wrestlers with power.

00:08:57.000 I mean, it's amazing how some were blessed at the time.

00:09:01.000 I mean, remember, he's just a ninja.

00:09:04.000 That was one shot.

00:09:05.000 And I told him to everybody.

00:09:07.000 He is that guy that when he has a...

00:09:09.000 You know, when he faces a great striker, and I tell him, just take him down.

00:09:12.000 I mean, I saw him train with Molo Wa.

00:09:14.000 He took Molo down. 0.97

00:09:15.000 I mean, Banjo is a freaking animal like in training. 0.97

00:09:18.000 My focus mitts, my hands would hurt after I would hold him. 0.98

00:09:21.000 And he would stand on one leg and hit.

00:09:22.000 I have no clue how he generated that kind of force.

00:09:25.000 But he had so much power.

00:09:27.000 And I said, dude, just take him down. 0.61

00:09:29.000 Scott Smith, why would you even go with him?

00:09:31.000 The guy's a striker. 0.85

00:09:32.000 Just take him down, knock him out on the ground.

00:09:38.000 What a compelling career for Scott Smith too, right?

00:09:43.000 Headlining events on CBS, major network exposure.

00:09:47.000 I remember what we called the Christmas miracle when he came back and knocked out Kung Lee. 0.95

00:09:52.000 And again, a guy who's, I think, back working hands of steel back in the factory.

00:09:59.000 It's interesting how the sport in such a short period of time, of course, we've seen the explosion, but what could have been even with Elite XC and we saw what happened with Kimball, but it's just interesting for me now, as we reminisce about stuff, how so many organizations had opportunities and yet...

00:10:17.000 It fell by the wayside for one reason or another.

00:10:20.000 A lot of it self-inflicted.

00:10:22.000 Well, Elite XC was a really hard one to watch because it was bastardizing the sport.

00:10:26.000 You were seeing they were standing people up.

00:10:28.000 Do you remember when...

00:10:29.000 I remember that 15-second rule was disastrous.

00:10:31.000 It was crazy, but it was also they were standing people up in dominant positions.

00:10:34.000 Roy Nelson and Arlovsky.

00:10:37.000 You're right.

00:10:38.000 Had him inside control.

00:10:38.000 Incredulous.

00:10:39.000 Working for Kimura, and they stood him up.

00:10:41.000 They're like, whoa, that's crazy.

00:10:43.000 But then you can understand why, though, with Kimbo Slice, you know, taking what was necessary to bring, it was the first organization to make it to major network TV. And I think there were some decent fighters along the way as well.

00:10:56.000 Were you a Kimbo fan at all in terms, I know you're pure martial arts, and that's why I respect and sit here bowing down at the altar or the erudite one, but did you like what Kimbo Slice represented at the time?

00:11:09.000 I think Timo Slice was a tough guy, and he was a fun guy to watch, but the reality of what he represented as a mixed martial arts fighter at that time was he was fairly novice.

00:11:19.000 Yes.

00:11:19.000 He didn't really have a ground game, and he really couldn't stop a good wrestler from taking him down, but he was a good puncher who was really good in those backyard brawls.

00:11:27.000 Sure.

00:11:27.000 In those environments, he was tougher than 99% of the guys out there, and he would smash guys.

00:11:33.000 And he'd smashed a few guys in MMA. Yeah.

00:11:35.000 And, you know, what I really respect about Kimbo is that he went on The Ultimate Fighter and he gave a go of it.

00:11:40.000 I mean, he really did.

00:11:41.000 Yeah, I mean, he was already a huge YouTube star at the time.

00:11:41.000 That was a big thing.

00:11:44.000 So he went on with all these other unknown guys who are wrestlers and football players and guys like Roy Nelson.

00:11:51.000 And he handled it. 1.00

00:11:51.000 Like a fucking man. 1.00

00:11:52.000 Big target on his back. 1.00

00:11:54.000 Big target on his back.

00:11:55.000 Everybody knew he was the famous guy. 0.94

00:11:56.000 I want to fight him.

00:11:57.000 Everybody wants to fight him. 0.83

00:11:57.000 I want to fight him. 0.83

00:11:58.000 And the numbers were through the roof when he was on.

00:12:01.000 Exactly.

00:12:01.000 Through the roof.

00:12:02.000 And he was a great guy.

00:12:03.000 Yeah.

00:12:04.000 He was always a super friendly, real nice guy.

00:12:07.000 Always cool with everybody.

00:12:08.000 Yep.

00:12:09.000 You know, but despite his appearances, he looked like with a gold teeth and a crazy beard.

00:12:13.000 Oh man, we had so much fun with that guy.

00:12:15.000 Really good guy.

00:12:16.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:12:18.000 And that's why, though, it seems...

00:12:19.000 Because I think the argument continues even now in this sport, right?

00:12:23.000 With the rankings, right?

00:12:24.000 Joe, how come Damian Maia's not getting the next shot at Tyron Woodley?

00:12:29.000 Well, don't you think, though, in that fight that Woodley and Wonderboy have to rematch?

00:12:32.000 It's a draw.

00:12:32.000 Oh, 100%.

00:12:33.000 I agree 100%.

00:12:35.000 But then I also think Dominic Cruz and...

00:12:38.000 And Cody Garbrandt as much as, what a masterpiece.

00:12:40.000 But if you look at the backgrounds and what's happened in the past, I think Dominick Cruz also deserves a rematch.

00:12:47.000 I don't agree with that.

00:12:48.000 I don't agree with that because I don't think that was that close.

00:12:48.000 You don't?

00:12:50.000 I think Cody clearly won that fight.

00:12:53.000 Oh, I agree.

00:12:53.000 And I think Cody has...

00:12:54.000 But what he represents with the body of work that he's done in the...

00:12:57.000 Sure.

00:12:58.000 But T.J. Dillashaw first then.

00:12:59.000 He was an amazing fighter.

00:13:01.000 But T.J.'s been waiting for a long time.

00:13:02.000 T.J. barely lost a fight with Dominic.

00:13:04.000 It was a razor close decision that could have gone either way.

00:13:07.000 And then he goes on to beat Rafael Assuncao.

00:13:10.000 And I just feel like in his position now, and then he beat the Lineker fight.

00:13:17.000 Yeah, John Lineker was amazing.

00:13:18.000 He shut Lineker down.

00:13:18.000 Incredible.

00:13:19.000 Lineker's a damn destroyer. 0.98

00:13:21.000 But there's no exact science, I guess, is what I'm I'm saying in terms of how it comes to matchmaking and putting together championship fights and what do you market? 0.99

00:13:29.000 The freak, the star, the dominant fighter.

00:13:32.000 That's why I love the sport.

00:13:33.000 Yeah, well, there's certainly arguments either way.

00:13:35.000 I mean, there's an interesting triangle between the three of those guys.

00:13:38.000 I mean, there's a lot of good matchups that could be made with those guys.

00:13:41.000 And then also there's Dodson.

00:13:43.000 You know, don't ever sleep on Dodson.

00:13:45.000 Dodson might have lost to Lineker, but I think Dodson, when he's on, is one of the fastest, most talented guys in the division.

00:13:52.000 It's like his Glued, I always say, to the mat. 0.64

00:13:54.000 The way he moves, it jumps like a freaking spider almost. 0.93

00:13:57.000 And he doesn't slip. 0.94

00:13:58.000 It's really weird.

00:13:59.000 And if he catches you, man, that finish is... 0.99

00:14:01.000 I mean, he's a fucking thunderbolt. 0.99

00:14:03.000 Yeah, exactly. 1.00

00:14:04.000 They say the lightweight can't pop.

00:14:07.000 Well, Cody Garbrandt, Dodson, others are showing...

00:14:10.000 Even Demetrius Johnson seems to have...

00:14:14.000 Again, pound for pound, one of the greats, right?

00:14:16.000 One of my favorite fighters ever.

00:14:17.000 I think he's becoming not necessarily more aggressive, but there's some finish now to his game as well.

00:14:24.000 He's always been trying to finish guys, but you're fighting a guy like Ali Bagutinov. 0.99

00:14:28.000 He's a tough fucking guy. 0.99

00:14:29.000 Tough to finish those guys. 1.00

00:14:31.000 Think about who he finished.

00:14:32.000 He finished John Moraga.

00:14:33.000 He finished Haraguchi with one second to go. 1.00

00:14:36.000 He's a fucking animal. 1.00

00:14:37.000 He knocks out Benavidez with one punch, beats the shit out of Cejudo, stops him in one round. 1.00

00:14:42.000 That's where really I was like, wow.

00:14:46.000 I'm hoping, like we've seen with boxing, that the UFC fan base, MMA fan base, begins to rally around these lighter weight classes.

00:14:55.000 Because to me, that's mixed martial arts at its best.

00:14:59.000 I always loved the WEC. That was my favorite show.

00:15:01.000 Because these guys had full gas tanks.

00:15:04.000 Nowadays, everybody has it.

00:15:05.000 But at the time, we were only the lightweights.

00:15:07.000 And that's why I loved that show.

00:15:09.000 And then when UFC bought it up, I thought, hey, more power to it.

00:15:11.000 I'm actually very smart.

00:15:12.000 I think Cody Garbrandt has a real possibility of becoming a huge mainstream star.

00:15:16.000 For a while.

00:15:17.000 He's a handsome guy.

00:15:18.000 He's a devastating puncher.

00:15:19.000 Amen.

00:15:20.000 Vicious striker.

00:15:21.000 He's charismatic.

00:15:22.000 He's confident.

00:15:23.000 He's very moral and ethical.

00:15:26.000 You know, his relationship with that young boy that had leukemia.

00:15:28.000 Fantastic.

00:15:29.000 Helped him through it. 1.00

00:15:30.000 I mean, it's like intense, intense shit, man. 0.99

00:15:33.000 I mean, he's a special guy. 0.99

00:15:34.000 And that's...

00:15:35.000 Was it leukemia?

00:15:36.000 Is that what it was?

00:15:36.000 Yeah, leukemia, right.

00:15:38.000 I mean, he's a special guy.

00:15:39.000 Yeah, well, that stops out, man.

00:15:41.000 Like I said, we just mentioned on our podcast, it's like, it was almost like he was holding back And he said, okay, I'm going to pull it out once I fight for the title.

00:15:50.000 That's what I'm really going to show what I can do.

00:15:52.000 Because he looked like a completely different fighter.

00:15:54.000 He was always good, but this was a whole different level.

00:15:57.000 But the way he dominated Dominic Cruz mentally, especially leading up to the fight where it appeared that Cruz had gotten under his skin when he stormed out of the interview.

00:16:05.000 But from the opening bell, like you say, the taunting and stuff, and yet able to back it up and show...

00:16:13.000 Whether it's evolution or whether it was already there, a masterful performance, man.

00:16:18.000 Well, he grew up in tough environments, and I think that what he said after the fight, when I asked him about it, like, was it taunting?

00:16:24.000 No, I love that stuff.

00:16:25.000 It was like, I'm used to that.

00:16:27.000 You know, that was an environment where he's comfortable in.

00:16:29.000 Well, he was also able to stay real calm in that, you know, world championship spotlight.

00:16:34.000 That's very difficult to do.

00:16:36.000 Plus, he flipped it around, you know?

00:16:38.000 He shows Cruz that he doesn't want to go into this battle almost, like walking off.

00:16:43.000 But then once the fight started, he started doing it to Cruz, and I think it got to Cruz.

00:16:47.000 You know, pointing at the ground, doing the little break dance moves, the uppercuts.

00:16:51.000 But then, credit Cruz for the way he handled defeat.

00:16:54.000 Like a man.

00:16:56.000 No, like others?

00:16:56.000 Like a man.

00:16:57.000 Handled it as good as anybody.

00:16:58.000 Tim Kennedy's another one.

00:16:59.000 Handled it as good as anybody.

00:17:01.000 McGregor handled it as good as anybody.

00:17:04.000 He beat me, that's it.

00:17:06.000 That's as admirable as putting out the correct game plan and winning.

00:17:13.000 There's something incredibly admirable about a guy who can take a loss like a man or a woman.

00:17:19.000 Anyone who can just accept what happened and that's just what it is.

00:17:24.000 You know, it's very unfortunate when you see someone that's saying some things that don't really make sense, like after a fight or blaming it on other people or blaming it on their camp or blaming it on an injury, and it's just...

00:17:37.000 And I think you did bring this up, and I agree with you in terms of when someone has been knocked out.

00:17:43.000 Or someone has been in a very grueling, tough fight.

00:17:47.000 I don't know why we are forced to interview them.

00:17:50.000 Yeah, I don't think it's fair.

00:17:51.000 Yeah, it's not fair.

00:17:52.000 Yeah, and I know it's put you and myself too at times where I'm like, it's not right.

00:17:57.000 I remember I've interviewed Cro Cop after the Gonzaga fight when Gonzaga head kicked him.

00:18:03.000 And I was asking him questions.

00:18:05.000 He had no idea where he was.

00:18:07.000 He could tell.

00:18:07.000 There was no one home.

00:18:09.000 I mean, he had just gotten completely flatlined.

00:18:11.000 And I said to them then, I said, I really don't think we should interview people after knockouts again.

00:18:16.000 But I dropped it.

00:18:17.000 We never talked about it again.

00:18:18.000 And then after that one, I was like, that doesn't make any sense.

00:18:21.000 He was out cold.

00:18:23.000 And he thinks he had a guillotine.

00:18:24.000 Well, and like you said, Alistair Overeem, obviously, too, where he, you know, for whatever reason, thought what he did.

00:18:30.000 He thought he had a guillotine.

00:18:30.000 He really did.

00:18:31.000 Not even close.

00:18:33.000 No, not even close.

00:18:34.000 So it's, yeah, and that's, you know, too unfortunate that, and I don't see what it accomplishes anyway.

00:18:40.000 Yeah, it made me feel bad too, and I had to give him the opportunity, and then I had to give him an opportunity again, because you couldn't see it the first time, so we had to watch it from another angle, and the other angle revealed that it didn't happen, so he was kind of stuck.

00:18:53.000 Yeah.

00:18:53.000 You know, that's not fair.

00:18:54.000 Awkward.

00:18:55.000 No, it's not.

00:18:56.000 It's also not fair if someone tells you they had a guillotine.

00:18:59.000 You gotta go look at it.

00:19:00.000 You have to.

00:19:01.000 You never know. 0.99

00:19:01.000 Because that would be fucking crazy. 0.99

00:19:03.000 If we saw that he had the guillotine, we saw Stipe do this, and we went, oh no! 0.98

00:19:08.000 Well, hey, what about my introduction to Prime?

00:19:11.000 My very first show, Bushido won.

00:19:14.000 Our first fight, Chris Brennan, Eiji Mitswoka.

00:19:17.000 I'm settling in, getting ready.

00:19:18.000 I'm really excited to work with Boss.

00:19:20.000 And immediately, there's controversy.

00:19:22.000 Brennan had Mitswoka in the armbar.

00:19:26.000 We saw him tap, and right away, the referee, oh wait, what's happening?

00:19:30.000 They actually restarted the fight, and seconds later, Brennan submits him with a Kimura.

00:19:35.000 So, right off the bat, a double submission in my first fight.

00:19:38.000 Chris Brennan's a Kimura master.

00:19:40.000 He's got a lot of great setups with Kimura.

00:19:42.000 How is he doing right now?

00:19:43.000 Did you hear it?

00:19:44.000 I haven't talked to him in a while.

00:19:45.000 Last I saw him was at a UFC a couple years back.

00:19:48.000 He said hi, and I know he was teaching in Dallas.

00:19:50.000 I think on social media every so often I see him.

00:19:53.000 He's a very successful instructor.

00:19:56.000 He's a very good jiu-jitsu instructor on top of being a very good fighter.

00:20:03.000 So many memories, man.

00:20:06.000 Sakuraba all the way back.

00:20:06.000 Sakuraba, right?

00:20:07.000 Also at the UFC. Double tap.

00:20:11.000 Right arm bar against...

00:20:13.000 Silvera, right.

00:20:14.000 And Murillo Bustamante.

00:20:16.000 I think even our good friend Big John said that was the biggest, you know, he owned up to it too, but that, you know, the guy doesn't make many mistakes, but that one I know that he, in the book, regretted greatly, obviously.

00:20:27.000 But yeah, and so you were saying Murillo Bustamante.

00:20:31.000 Yeah, in the UFC against... 0.99

00:20:33.000 God damn it. 0.99

00:20:34.000 How the fuck am I not remembering? 1.00

00:20:35.000 Was it from Team Quest? 0.99

00:20:38.000 Oh, Matt Lindlund?

00:20:38.000 Yes.

00:20:39.000 Matt Lindlund. 0.99

00:20:40.000 How the fuck did I not remember? 0.99

00:20:40.000 Yes. 0.99

00:20:41.000 We just talked about that the other day.

00:20:42.000 Yeah.

00:20:43.000 Yeah, he got Matt Lindlund in an arm bar.

00:20:45.000 Matt Lindlund tapped.

00:20:46.000 He said he didn't tap.

00:20:47.000 They restarted again.

00:20:48.000 And then he got him in a guillotine the next round.

00:20:50.000 Exactly.

00:20:51.000 That was when Murillo was on top of the world.

00:20:53.000 Oh, man.

00:20:54.000 Murillo was so good.

00:20:55.000 What a great rivalry, too, back in prime.

00:20:57.000 BTT and Shooter.

00:20:59.000 It was to the point where, you know, even walking by each other, like, okay, wait a minute, what's going on here?

00:21:06.000 It was so intense, very intense rivalry, which made for some, you know, legendary matchups.

00:21:13.000 We were talking on the way here.

00:21:14.000 It was giant.

00:21:15.000 I mean, you guys represented like this Wild West.

00:21:19.000 Yeah.

00:21:20.000 No, it was just it was everything was crazy, you know That's the thing because but there were also at the time these were the best of the best, but you're right It was also the mix of the what we already talked about, but we were talking on the way here Mauricio Shogun Hua,

00:21:36.000 remember 23 years old goes through Quinton Rampage Jackson Antonio Rogerio Nogueira, one of the best fights in Pride history and then in one night Alistair Overeem and Ricardo Arona to win that Grand Prix and you know, say what John Jones did at 23, God bless him man,

00:21:51.000 one of the best, but Mauricio Shogun who a beast at that age man.

00:21:54.000 Oh yeah, I mean there was a lot of guys and it's almost like I would have loved to have seen what Noguera in his prime would have been able to do in the UFC and I would have loved to have seen with Fedor in his prime because essentially when Noguera fought Fedor he was in his prime.

00:22:08.000 Yes.

00:22:09.000 I mean was that pre or post Bob Sapp?

00:22:11.000 That was after.

00:22:13.000 After, because he fought Sapp at the National Stadium.

00:22:16.000 The problem with that is, anything post-Bob Sapp, you have to take into consideration how much damage he took from Bob Sapp. 0.92

00:22:25.000 Because he got beat the fuck up in that fight. 0.99

00:22:28.000 Dropped on his head. 0.99

00:22:29.000 I thought he killed him.

00:22:31.000 I thought when we were doing the commentating, I go, here we got...

00:22:34.000 This is our first death.

00:22:35.000 When he piledrived him into the ground.

00:22:35.000 Right?

00:22:36.000 He piledrived him head first and he's 350 pounds.

00:22:40.000 It's similar with the Monsterplex, right?

00:22:42.000 Our dearly departed friend Kevin Randleman when, fresh off of upsetting Mirko Krokop, he goes and drops Fedor on his head.

00:22:49.000 And again, Fedor Emelianenko, like you say, would have been very good to see what we would have done in his prime because even despite being dropped on his head, calmly, coolly, regrouped, And then submits Randleman with the arm bar a minute and a half later.

00:23:05.000 Yeah, it was amazing.

00:23:06.000 Yeah, Fedor in his prime.

00:23:08.000 It's the one thing that was...

00:23:10.000 I mean, it's actually just interesting.

00:23:12.000 It's cool to see those old videos and watch those old fights.

00:23:15.000 But there's something about, like, epic matchups between great fighters.

00:23:20.000 Like, the opportunity of Cain Velasquez in his prime versus Fedor in his prime.

00:23:26.000 I would have loved to see that.

00:23:27.000 Cain before all these injuries.

00:23:29.000 I would have loved to see that.

00:23:30.000 Yeah, who didn't?

00:23:31.000 Well, we did get to see Mirko and Fedor, which at the time, I mean, that was the most anticipated heavyweight fight in MMA history in 2005. What's most amazing about that fight is Fedor beat him standing.

00:23:43.000 Exactly.

00:23:45.000 He's the one that adapted and beat Mirko at his most potent weapon.

00:23:49.000 He's the guy that he...

00:23:51.000 His striking, it looks not technical, but when he strikes, it's perfect.

00:23:56.000 There's no load-up whatsoever.

00:23:57.000 He holds his fist still, and from here, it goes forward.

00:24:00.000 You can't tell when he shots.

00:24:02.000 He's accurate.

00:24:03.000 Remember the entry into the guard?

00:24:05.000 Remember the headbutt with Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira in the final of the tournament?

00:24:09.000 But yeah, the way he would enter the guard, and I think that's what Fabrizio Verdum did his homework, because remember, Verdum almost baited him.

00:24:17.000 Well, he did.

00:24:18.000 He baited him when he submitted him, and I think Verdum...

00:24:24.000 The first time or the rematch?

00:24:28.000 The rematch in Pride.

00:24:30.000 He was throwing these bombs and I'm doing the commentating.

00:24:33.000 I said, well, he's really overcommitting.

00:24:34.000 He should watch out that he doesn't fall in a triangle choke.

00:24:37.000 And then they brought that piece and they put it next to the piece when he fought for Doom.

00:24:42.000 And that's exactly what happened.

00:24:43.000 He was over-committing and right away they slapped on that triangle tilt. 0.86

00:24:46.000 That first blemish against TK though was ridiculous, right? 0.71

00:24:49.000 The elbows... 0.84

00:24:50.000 In rings, that was an egregious error.

00:24:54.000 It should not have been...

00:24:55.000 I don't remember that fight.

00:24:56.000 It was against Kosaka?

00:24:57.000 Yeah, the cuts of the elbows.

00:25:00.000 It should have been a victory.

00:25:04.000 Was there no elbows allowed on the ground?

00:25:06.000 Is that what the problem was?

00:25:08.000 Man, when I think back now, the rule, it just, it seemed like there was no real rule.

00:25:13.000 But rings had no ground and pound, right?

00:25:14.000 Yes, and they also, again, there was, you know, came from a wrestling and then into the shoot.

00:25:20.000 How was rings you could hit to the body on the ground?

00:25:22.000 Is that how it worked?

00:25:23.000 Yeah, was that it?

00:25:24.000 I have no clue.

00:25:25.000 They, uh...

00:25:25.000 I feel like you couldn't hit to the head on the ground.

00:25:27.000 They had some weird rules.

00:25:28.000 Well, and a promotion that introduced people to people like Fedor, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, Dan Henderson, I mean, Hinaldo Babalu Sobral.

00:25:37.000 That's a thing, Japan, man.

00:25:38.000 I wish it would have been nice to have our friend join us for some of those fights.

00:25:43.000 I should have definitely made a trip over there just to watch, you know?

00:25:46.000 Because I was thinking of flying to see Fedor fight against Mitrione.

00:25:49.000 Why didn't you, my man?

00:25:50.000 Why didn't you ever make it over there?

00:25:52.000 Oh, I was just busy.

00:25:52.000 No, no, not this one.

00:25:53.000 Busy with life?

00:25:54.000 Yeah.

00:25:54.000 But I feel like that's one of the things that I probably should have saw was Pride in its prime.

00:25:59.000 I always tell people that.

00:26:00.000 When you guys were selling out 90,000 seats.

00:26:02.000 I remember Dana, he came for the first time.

00:26:05.000 They were sitting first row.

00:26:06.000 And I remember when I look back, when the opening started, I look back and he's with his mouth open.

00:26:10.000 He looks around.

00:26:11.000 He goes, this is the craziest experience.

00:26:13.000 I remember looking at him.

00:26:14.000 I go, right?

00:26:15.000 This is crazy.

00:26:17.000 I mean, it was insane.

00:26:18.000 He brought Chuck, you remember?

00:26:19.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:26:19.000 At that time to fight at the tournament.

00:26:21.000 The tournament.

00:26:21.000 Allister over in Quentin Rampage Jackson.

00:26:24.000 Yeah.

00:26:25.000 But, okay, well, there you go, though.

00:26:27.000 The UFC used to have the ramp and the elaborate entrances, and I know they wanted to separate from my other line of employment, WWE, and the wrestling aspect, but I know Bellator does a pretty decent job with their entrances and stuff.

00:26:41.000 Do you think that that...

00:26:43.000 Is it something that could help UFC now, or is it you like the boxing entrance?

00:26:48.000 It's pure, you know, the sport aspect of it.

00:26:50.000 Because I think fans, in Japan, man, I mean, the production values were ridiculous.

00:26:55.000 I think it added to the experience.

00:26:58.000 Well, it's definitely a different thing, whether or not it's better.

00:27:01.000 I don't know, man.

00:27:02.000 I just, like this...

00:27:05.000 Past UFC with Ronda Rousey and Amanda Nunes walking down the tunnel.

00:27:08.000 I like just watching that.

00:27:10.000 That's what I want to see. 0.98

00:27:12.000 I don't give a fuck about fireworks. 0.98

00:27:13.000 I'm not a little kid. 0.98

00:27:15.000 I want to see what someone's face looks like when they're about to go to war.

00:27:19.000 You know, when I watch the UFC most of the time, you know, it's recorded.

00:27:22.000 I turn my phones off and that's where I go fast forward.

00:27:26.000 Only when you pick something up on the other end, they go like, oh man, that was a cool end.

00:27:30.000 I was like, oh, let's take a look at that, you know?

00:27:31.000 So I have a little bit of an idea, but that's how it shows how much I enjoy it.

00:27:37.000 But the video footage that they have, the Pride Fighting Championships, and especially the one with Fedor and Krokov crying.

00:27:44.000 Wow, wow, wow, wow.

00:27:45.000 No, this pageantry was amazing, for sure.

00:27:48.000 They were like movie trailers.

00:27:49.000 Before the fight, they'd show you the movie trailer.

00:27:52.000 And they were not allowed to show it to the American audience for some reason.

00:27:55.000 They had this, I don't know why that was. 1.00

00:27:57.000 Idiots. 1.00

00:27:57.000 They weren't allowed to show the movie trailer part of it? 1.00

00:27:59.000 That was Tokyo TV or whoever had that contract.

00:27:59.000 No.

00:27:59.000 Really?

00:28:02.000 Fuji TV. Fuji TV. Used to give like five million bucks a show.

00:28:06.000 Well, it was always weird for us when your shows would either be on at like four o'clock in the morning.

00:28:11.000 So I'd have guys over at my house at four o'clock in the morning.

00:28:13.000 Everybody would be drinking Red Bull, trying to stay awake, and then Pride would come on.

00:28:17.000 Or you guys would have the fights, and then it would air on TV a while later.

00:28:22.000 Like, later.

00:28:23.000 Yeah, I tried to break that.

00:28:24.000 I was calling all the winners in, you know, to see with gambling if we could do something with that.

00:28:28.000 But no, it didn't work.

00:28:30.000 Cubs win the World Series in 2015. But everybody knew the results, you know, because of all the websites.

00:28:35.000 Like, so you just watch to see what happened.

00:28:35.000 Yeah.

00:28:38.000 But isn't fighting the one sport...

00:28:40.000 Combat sports is the one, forget football, baseball, hockey, everything else, I don't care if I know the result, I will watch a fight.

00:28:47.000 Yeah, if I know the result, I'll watch a fight too.

00:28:49.000 It's just, I think it's the art, Meryl Streep.

00:28:53.000 No, it's not as good, but it's still, I don't know, maybe because it's a more digestible size, but I just, I find fighting to be something, you know, I will watch, other than if I record a hockey game and I know the score will end, screw it, I'm not watching it.

00:29:08.000 Yeah, man, I was reading some of the responses to Meryl Streep.

00:29:12.000 Like, Jesus Christ.

00:29:13.000 He just blasted four Olympic sports, that's what I said.

00:29:19.000 Okay, you're the entertainer.

00:29:20.000 You're the comedian.

00:29:22.000 In what context do you think she...

00:29:23.000 My knee-jerk reaction, same thing.

00:29:25.000 Hey, love me some Meryl Streep, but why do you have to trash MMA? I'm wondering if she didn't even ever, you know, know what mixed martial arts was. 1.00

00:29:32.000 Someone gave her the word with arts in it, and she made the time, well, it's not even arts.

00:29:36.000 But football doesn't say football arts, right?

00:29:39.000 No, no.

00:29:40.000 Well, she went after mixed martial arts because she said the word arts, and then she riffed it.

00:29:44.000 And she said, which, by the way, is not the arts.

00:29:44.000 You're right.

00:29:47.000 Like...

00:29:47.000 Okay, well, what arts?

00:29:49.000 You know, it's not the art of pretending.

00:29:50.000 You're right.

00:29:51.000 It's the art of execution under extreme circumstances.

00:29:54.000 Very difficult circumstances.

00:29:56.000 Highly trained opponent trying to smash bones in your face.

00:29:59.000 Incredibly difficult to do.

00:30:01.000 And when it's done right...

00:30:02.000 It's artistic.

00:30:04.000 You can't tell me when Anderson Silva landed that front kick to Vitor Belfort's face and you see Vitor's legs giving.

00:30:09.000 That's art.

00:30:10.000 That's art.

00:30:10.000 What about Rio Chonan on Anderson Silva?

00:30:13.000 Oh yeah, the flying scissor hook.

00:30:15.000 Right into the heel hook. 1.00

00:30:16.000 That was incredible.

00:30:17.000 That was like a movie scene, man.

00:30:18.000 Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is art.

00:30:20.000 Yeah, how about a brutal piece of art?

00:30:23.000 When Quentin Rampage Jackson, that Ricardo Arona slam.

00:30:23.000 Striking.

00:30:27.000 Oh my god.

00:30:29.000 He arches backwards in order to slam him fast.

00:30:33.000 I don't even know how he kept his balance.

00:30:34.000 Didn't someone actually call that shot a few seconds before it happened?

00:30:37.000 Did you call that?

00:30:38.000 Did you say it was going to come?

00:30:39.000 I saw it coming, believe it or not.

00:30:41.000 Why did Arona hold on to that triangle? 0.78

00:30:41.000 Jesus Christ. 0.78

00:30:43.000 You've got to let go of that fucking thing, man. 1.00

00:30:43.000 Yeah, why did he hold on? 1.00

00:30:45.000 But in the replay, though, you did see they did smash heads violently as well.

00:30:49.000 But you're right.

00:30:49.000 Why did he hold on?

00:30:50.000 He was probably gone anyway, man, even if they didn't smash heads.

00:30:53.000 The impact was so brutal.

00:30:55.000 Arona was essentially never the same again.

00:30:57.000 No.

00:30:58.000 You know, he never really fought well again after that fight.

00:31:00.000 And there was a guy, too, with so much potential, right?

00:31:03.000 But you know what's funny?

00:31:05.000 Paulo Filho, another guy.

00:31:05.000 We're talking again.

00:31:07.000 He went crazy, though, remember?

00:31:08.000 Yeah, he did.

00:31:09.000 Yeah, he went a little nutty.

00:31:10.000 But it's just, you see Gegard Mousasi, the evolution of him and what he's now doing in the UFC. He's at the brink right now, man.

00:31:16.000 He's at the door of the top guys in 185. I like it.

00:31:16.000 I agree.

00:31:20.000 I need to say about Arona, because I was interviewing Arona, and he had a cup of tea, like Japanese green tea, was standing here.

00:31:27.000 And somebody, and it was so cool, and he kept his cool so good, pushed the thing and fell off.

00:31:32.000 And he's sitting, and he does this.

00:31:33.000 And he comes up with the cup.

00:31:35.000 He grabbed it.

00:31:36.000 What?

00:31:37.000 I didn't even look at it!

00:31:38.000 I go, dude!

00:31:39.000 And he kept this cool because I know in his mind he's going to go, I got it!

00:31:42.000 I got it!

00:31:43.000 But just not looking, go, kak! 0.91

00:31:45.000 And he brings it back up and he sets it down.

00:31:47.000 I go, man, he was a jiu-jitsu stud.

00:31:50.000 He was a jiu-jitsu stud, as was Paul Ophelio.

00:31:53.000 Paul Ophelio was one of those guys.

00:31:54.000 He got you on the ground, man. 1.00

00:31:55.000 He was a fucking pit bull. 0.99

00:31:57.000 Do you remember what you just called a fight, Luis Azzeredo and Luis Firmino in Bushido 6, I want to say? 0.99

00:32:06.000 It was, to me, the earliest example for me and Pride, one of the best grappling fights I'd ever seen in an MMA arena.

00:32:15.000 I remember Ricardo Arona and Dean Lister and their rematch from the Abu Dhabi, and we were pumping the crap out of it.

00:32:22.000 Wasn't the most fan-friendly fight, my friend.

00:32:25.000 Hey, let me ask you guys about this while it's on my mind, because I'm thinking about grappling matches.

00:32:30.000 What did you guys think about Aoki, how Aoki used to wear those tights?

00:32:34.000 And, you know, when he went to fight in the U.S., they wouldn't let him wear the tights.

00:32:37.000 Eddie Bravo and I have talked about this a million times.

00:32:39.000 Like, I don't see a problem with him wearing the tights.

00:32:42.000 Like, why?

00:32:43.000 I think they look cool.

00:32:43.000 Does it absorb the sweat?

00:32:44.000 Yeah.

00:32:45.000 Yeah, so then it has more traction.

00:32:47.000 Right, traction is the...

00:32:50.000 But girls can wear rash guard tops, right? 1.00

00:32:53.000 Can they cover their arms?

00:32:54.000 Can girls cover their arms? 1.00

00:32:57.000 I don't know.

00:32:58.000 No, they should not be allowed to do that.

00:32:59.000 I don't.

00:33:00.000 I wonder.

00:33:01.000 Because I know what you're saying.

00:33:03.000 Okay, so why do you think he should have been allowed to just...

00:33:05.000 It's fun.

00:33:06.000 Yeah.

00:33:08.000 When I watched Aoki fight in Pride, man, it was fun. 0.64

00:33:10.000 He would wrap dudes up with his crazy legs. 1.00

00:33:13.000 Well, how about Imanari?

00:33:14.000 Remember Mazakazu Imanari and his leg attacks?

00:33:17.000 Oh, I love those leg attacks, man.

00:33:17.000 Incredible leg attacks.

00:33:19.000 Imanari.

00:33:20.000 George Gurjell's ACL. Yes, yes, although...

00:33:24.000 Roll on your knees, man.

00:33:25.000 Joachim Hansen, Joachim Hansen, the walk-off knee to Imanari.

00:33:29.000 There's another guy.

00:33:30.000 I wonder why he never came to the UFC. Well, he didn't want to.

00:33:34.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:33:35.000 He apparently didn't want, like, you know, when the UFC bought Pride and they had the contracts, he apparently didn't want to come over.

00:33:40.000 He also has been in a ton of wars.

00:33:43.000 Oh, man.

00:33:43.000 And, you know, he's...

00:33:45.000 I think he just fought again recently.

00:33:47.000 Yeah, well I thought that's what I'd read and if he'd retired, he was from Norway, right?

00:33:51.000 Maybe in Europe, but he was powerful from his back, remember?

00:33:55.000 He was one of the few guys that could actually hurt you from back position.

00:33:59.000 I saw one guy, a Russian one time, who knocked somebody out who mounted him. 1.00

00:34:03.000 Really?

00:34:03.000 He laid on his back and he big swing and he wins the fight, knocks the guy out while the guy had mounted him.

00:34:10.000 Eve Edwards said that Dwayne Ludwig broke his orbital bone when Dwayne was on his back.

00:34:15.000 Dwayne swung up and cracked Eve in the eyeball and broke his orbital from the bottom. 1.00

00:34:19.000 Eve Edwards, he did the coolest thing, what I always wanted to do when they hold a single leg.

00:34:27.000 Berto, yeah, I think that's in Berto.

00:34:29.000 He stands on one leg, and then he jumps up, leaves him in the head, knocks him out, and I go, dude, I'm telling my students about this, that you can do this, but I never did it.

00:34:37.000 That's an awesome move.

00:34:38.000 Man, he was a part.

00:34:39.000 He trained a lot with me as well.

00:34:41.000 Ian Henson actually had that great fight on...

00:34:44.000 Oh, let's see it here, let's see it here.

00:34:46.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:34:46.000 One leg.

00:34:48.000 He stands on one leg.

00:34:49.000 Oh, it's beautiful.

00:34:49.000 Yvette was a talented, talented guy.

00:34:51.000 Well, that's his first fight in Pride against Joaquim Hanson.

00:34:55.000 We talked about a split decision.

00:34:56.000 But, buddy, that show, Joe, to me, maybe...

00:34:59.000 I mean, Pride had so many legendary cards as well.

00:35:01.000 But everyone always asks me who...

00:35:03.000 You know, I want to get into Pride fighting championships.

00:35:05.000 What do I watch?

00:35:06.000 Well, a lot.

00:35:06.000 I always tell them to start with Bushido 9, the tournament.

00:35:09.000 That's a good one.

00:35:10.000 Where that fight...

00:35:11.000 Well, the fight with Hanson and...

00:35:15.000 We just talked about it, Edwards.

00:35:17.000 But how about Gomi?

00:35:18.000 Two Fight of the Year candidates in one night against Luis Azaredo and Tatsuya Kawajiri.

00:35:22.000 Dan Henderson, Gono, and Chonan.

00:35:24.000 Tremendous night of fights, bro.

00:35:26.000 Yeah, and those are some of the ones that kind of get lost.

00:35:29.000 They get forgotten about.

00:35:29.000 Yes.

00:35:31.000 Were you talking about Fight Pass?

00:35:32.000 Fight Pass! 0.99

00:35:33.000 Yeah, Fight Pass.

00:35:33.000 Were you mentioning Ensign Inouye?

00:35:35.000 Or who were you mentioning?

00:35:36.000 Because I have a funny story about Ensign.

00:35:37.000 No, no, not at all.

00:35:38.000 And you.

00:35:39.000 I bet you have a funny story about Ensign.

00:35:41.000 What happened?

00:35:41.000 He challenged him.

00:35:42.000 Mauro challenged Enzo.

00:35:45.000 Let's rewind then, shall we?

00:35:49.000 Mr. Mark Coleman and Kevin Randleman, we were in Boss' hotel room.

00:35:54.000 This is after Pride event, we don't know which one.

00:35:58.000 And Pride back then, love to party, love to experiment.

00:36:01.000 And I'm a good, humble, innocent Canadian boy who hadn't really gotten out much, Joe.

00:36:06.000 When we say experiment, we're talking about my kind of experiment?

00:36:12.000 Boss says, have you ever taken a Percocet?

00:36:14.000 I'm like, what?

00:36:16.000 And he's like, have you ever taken a Percocet?

00:36:18.000 So I'm, of course, looking it up, a painkiller.

00:36:20.000 I don't know what the hell would I want to know, and I'm not that interested.

00:36:23.000 Come on, you've got to try it.

00:36:24.000 I said, oh, okay, well, why not?

00:36:26.000 So he gives me, you gave me three Percocets, dude, not one, three.

00:36:29.000 So I take these things.

00:36:31.000 Okay, fine, just whatever.

00:36:32.000 Coleman and Randleman walk in, and all of a sudden, you know, I'm still, I'm not feeling, you know me, I'm very impatient.

00:36:39.000 I'm like, well, what the hell?

00:36:39.000 It's not working, it's not working.

00:36:41.000 Randleman asks boss, he goes, what do you give him?

00:36:43.000 And boss goes, I gave him three Percocets.

00:36:46.000 You did what?

00:36:47.000 And then all of a sudden, almost on cue, it hits me.

00:36:51.000 And I end up, Ensign Inouye was there with us as well visiting, and I end up for some reason going into my old pro wrestling manager heel mode and going right up to Ensign and go, hey, I think I can take you, bro.

00:37:04.000 I think I can take you, and I'm doing this, and I'm really just kind of needling him.

00:37:08.000 He's trying to be nice.

00:37:10.000 He knows, okay, this is the English announcer, cool, whatever, but I'm pushing it because I'm impacted by Percocets.

00:37:16.000 Right, but are you thinking that you're doing a performance?

00:37:19.000 No, that's the thing.

00:37:21.000 I felt like I was hot.

00:37:23.000 You were out of your head.

00:37:24.000 I was out of my mind, man.

00:37:26.000 So you really thought in some strange world that you were going to be able to beat up Ensign Inuit?

00:37:33.000 I could beat him up, Joe, but I challenged him to fight.

00:37:35.000 He finally had enough.

00:37:37.000 Face-palmed me, broke my glasses, and I got a bloody nose, and I'm like, well, now I've got to wear the badge of honor.

00:37:42.000 And I took the picture with him and Ensign, and I'm like, yeah, I don't think I'll be doing Percocets anymore.

00:37:47.000 Is that the only time you've ever challenged a trained killer?

00:37:50.000 Yes.

00:37:51.000 Thank you.

00:37:52.000 And never again, thanks to the Pococets. 1.00

00:37:52.000 Yes. 1.00

00:37:54.000 You're lucky Enson's a good guy.

00:37:56.000 He is a really good guy.

00:37:57.000 He's a really good guy.

00:37:58.000 We all jumped in front of him.

00:37:59.000 We hit the ground.

00:38:01.000 We said, okay, this is over.

00:38:02.000 We're not going to.

00:38:03.000 Do you remember when Enson armbarred Randy Couture?

00:38:06.000 And he was one of the first guys I ever saw throw really hard kicks to the legs from his guard.

00:38:06.000 Yes.

00:38:13.000 Yes.

00:38:14.000 And I remember watching that going, oh, look at this, because he would prop himself up on his back.

00:38:18.000 Back arm and whip that leg into it. 1.00

00:38:20.000 And he hit Randy with some hard kicks from off of his back.

00:38:24.000 But what about our boy?

00:38:25.000 My boy, Frank Shamrock.

00:38:26.000 Don Enson, anyway, a lesson.

00:38:28.000 And the course almost resulted in the rampage when his brother, what's Enson's brother?

00:38:33.000 Egan?

00:38:34.000 Egan?

00:38:35.000 I mean, it was like a brawl.

00:38:36.000 They were always fighting.

00:38:36.000 Oh, yeah.

00:38:37.000 They were always fighting.

00:38:38.000 It almost became a brawl because of what Frank did.

00:38:42.000 And speaking of brawls, how about Coleman and Mauricio's joke on Hua?

00:38:46.000 When Hua went to post, broke his arm, and shoot a box and hammer house.

00:38:50.000 Phil Barone, Evanderlei Silva stamping on Phil Barone.

00:38:54.000 He said pride was wild, bro. 0.99

00:38:55.000 It was amazing shit going on down there. 0.99

00:38:58.000 You guys had real street fights in the back. 0.98

00:39:01.000 Just walking into the place, High and Gracie decides, out of the blue, I have no clue why, to pull the fire alarm.

00:39:08.000 This is before the whole show starts.

00:39:10.000 Oh, and Saitama, and buddy, the extinguisher fell, like a colored extinguisher, and he's screaming, yeah! 0.57

00:39:16.000 Everything falls out of the freaking ceiling.

00:39:18.000 Oh, so the fire retardant? 1.00

00:39:20.000 Fire retardant. 1.00

00:39:21.000 He released it.

00:39:22.000 He released it.

00:39:23.000 Spray into the sky.

00:39:23.000 And the show went on anyway?

00:39:25.000 He's just walking and suddenly he separates himself from the group.

00:39:25.000 The show went on.

00:39:29.000 And he hits that thing.

00:39:31.000 Man, you know what?

00:39:31.000 Did he fight that night?

00:39:32.000 He fought that night.

00:39:32.000 Yeah.

00:39:33.000 That was the night that, the first night when he said...

00:39:35.000 Well, the first...

00:39:36.000 That's right, the very first Bushido was the first time five members of the Gracie family had ever competed on the same card, although Daniel by marriage, right?

00:39:43.000 So you had Henzo and Carlos Nunes, so you had Henzo, Haiyan, Rodrigo, Daniel, and who was the other one I'm missing now?

00:39:52.000 No disrespect, but the Daniel thing is a weird one.

00:39:54.000 Yeah, I know.

00:39:54.000 Is that your last name or is it your wife's last name?

00:39:57.000 Yeah, yeah. 1.00

00:39:58.000 What in the fuck is going on here, sir? 0.99

00:40:00.000 I went to a boxing gym one time. 0.99

00:40:03.000 If I just could use the boxing, the ring, you know, to train.

00:40:06.000 And the guy comes to me and he says, if you want, I can teach you some groundwork.

00:40:10.000 He says, you know, I'm a Gracie.

00:40:11.000 I say, you're a Gracie, yeah.

00:40:13.000 I'm married to a Gracie. 0.99

00:40:15.000 He was married to a Gracie.

00:40:17.000 That's it.

00:40:18.000 How strange.

00:40:19.000 No, but you're right.

00:40:21.000 But that night, Haien took the mic after and went off.

00:40:24.000 I mean, using every expletive known to man.

00:40:28.000 Just snapped because of the Hidehiko Yoshida Hoist Gracie controversy.

00:40:32.000 Well, Haien was the craziest of all.

00:40:35.000 Oh, man. 0.63

00:40:35.000 But you know what? 0.63

00:40:36.000 We had some good times with him.

00:40:38.000 Real good times.

00:40:40.000 Like you say, a tortured soul, but to us anyway, always a good one of the few, not few, a lot of guys, but he always went out of his way to make me, I mean, you're a legend, but to make the, you know, the mean nothing announcer feel good.

00:40:51.000 He always came up, Morrow, good to see you, and very tense.

00:40:54.000 Well, once you challenged Ensign, you probably got to respect pretty much everybody.

00:40:58.000 Now I'm thinking of the whole crazy altercation we had with all the bounces.

00:41:03.000 That was Randleman also.

00:41:05.000 Buddy, the very first New Year's Eve we spent in Japan for Shockwave, it was you, Kevin Randleman, Hyann Gracie, Quinton Rampage.

00:41:14.000 And Quinton left the group because he knew this was going to go wrong.

00:41:18.000 Quinton Rampage Jackson is the sensible man.

00:41:22.000 What a mad group you guys have.

00:41:24.000 At the end of the night, though, the one that made the most sense was this guy.

00:41:28.000 You were the one that kept the peace because Kevin was losing his mind.

00:41:31.000 And even High and Gracie kept saying, Morrow, don't worry.

00:41:33.000 We'll be okay.

00:41:34.000 And I'm like, why?

00:41:34.000 He goes, just trust me.

00:41:36.000 We're okay.

00:41:36.000 And I swear to God, I thought he might have had a gun.

00:41:38.000 What are you saying?

00:41:39.000 What was going on?

00:41:41.000 What would it be okay about?

00:41:42.000 Okay, so...

00:41:43.000 We bought some weed from some bouncers there.

00:41:46.000 And I didn't look because, you know, it's a felony there.

00:41:49.000 So I just get it and we walk off.

00:41:51.000 And while we walk off, we realize that I pick it out and say, oh, that is not enough.

00:41:55.000 So I go back and I say, gosh, that's not enough.

00:41:58.000 You need to get me more.

00:41:59.000 And he goes, no, it's not going to happen.

00:42:00.000 And he has this attitude.

00:42:01.000 I say, okay, well, let me do it different.

00:42:03.000 I'm going to be back in 10 minutes.

00:42:04.000 We are going to be back in 10 minutes.

00:42:06.000 And then it better be here.

00:42:08.000 So we walk around and we thought, you know, maybe we should light up at least as we relax.

00:42:13.000 And we're in this weird, what is it?

00:42:15.000 There's mailboxes, like it's an entrance to an apartment complex.

00:42:20.000 Complex.

00:42:21.000 And suddenly, Randleman starts jumping up, and he starts getting angry, and he hits a mailbox, and then Ryan starts, and I'm trying to keep both these guys down, and I go, no, no, no, you guys, relax, relax.

00:42:32.000 I just go, shut up, my friend, I say to Ryan, and Ryan goes, don't talk to me like this, come on, man, are you really doing this right now?

00:42:39.000 And we get this whole fight goes on, I said, no, no, we got to relax, stay relaxed, just smoke a little weed, we're going to go back. 0.89

00:42:45.000 Finally, everybody calm down.

00:42:46.000 We go back.

00:42:47.000 And these guys probably called somebody.

00:42:49.000 Oh, no, no.

00:42:50.000 First of all...

00:42:51.000 These were two big guys, by the way.

00:42:53.000 And I walk over.

00:42:54.000 I say, oh, so we need it right now.

00:42:56.000 And they say, oh, we need to wait because they're bringing it right now.

00:42:59.000 So right away already, we're looking back.

00:43:01.000 And sure enough, there's two big guys coming also, same clothes as they have.

00:43:05.000 And you see them very sturdy walking up to us, and as soon as they see us, they make a 180, and they talk back, and the phone goes from the guy, and I go, those are the guys calling you right now, telling you, you gotta give it up.

00:43:17.000 And he goes, he opens the phone, and the guy, he says, okay, and he puts it down, and he gave us a whole mountain.

00:43:23.000 You guys recognized him as being the prime fighting badass.

00:43:26.000 It was right out of a movie, man.

00:43:27.000 It was hilarious.

00:43:28.000 But in the whole altercation when everybody started jumping, that's when Quentin left.

00:43:32.000 Yes.

00:43:33.000 Quentin said, I'm not going to stay at this.

00:43:35.000 I'm going to chase the latest.

00:43:37.000 That's hilarious.

00:43:38.000 Yeah, well, great times.

00:43:39.000 Great times.

00:43:40.000 Yeah, crazy times.

00:43:42.000 It's a good time.

00:43:43.000 How much of a presence was the whole Yakuza thing while you guys were there?

00:43:48.000 How aware of it were you guys?

00:43:51.000 I was aware of it, but nobody would notice.

00:43:56.000 Yakuza doesn't have his hands on drugs.

00:43:57.000 They don't do anything like that, but real estate shows like this.

00:44:00.000 You saw people in the crowd.

00:44:00.000 You saw people sitting down there.

00:44:02.000 Did you see people that were missing fingers?

00:44:08.000 That was where Masato, the kickboxer, was training.

00:44:12.000 Mickey Rourke was there also, I think.

00:44:14.000 And we were in this strip club.

00:44:17.000 And this guy sits there with long hair.

00:44:20.000 And he comes over to me and says, hey, how are you doing?

00:44:23.000 Like a little feminine, really weird. 0.96

00:44:25.000 You got me your biggest fan?

00:44:26.000 Oh, now we got this crazy guy here, right?

00:44:28.000 I had no clue what to think.

00:44:31.000 And he says, oh, you're a great fighter.

00:44:32.000 You want to know what I do?

00:44:33.000 And he takes his shirt off and he's all tatted up and people start literally leaving the place there.

00:44:37.000 I think I realized he's Yakuza, right?

00:44:39.000 So we started talking and I was talking about a tattoo that I wanted in this color.

00:44:44.000 I said, but in America, it's hard to find.

00:44:46.000 At the time, people only wanted to use black ink.

00:44:48.000 And he says, no, that's not hard at all.

00:44:50.000 Why don't you come tomorrow morning and I can do this for you.

00:44:54.000 So the next day, he and I, we go to this dungeon like five stories under the ground, right?

00:44:59.000 It was the weirdest place.

00:45:01.000 We open the door.

00:45:03.000 There's a cage with a bag that Masato actually used to train on apparently.

00:45:07.000 He used to train in that cage.

00:45:08.000 In a cage with two Dobermans.

00:45:10.000 They fly up against the thing.

00:45:12.000 It's like there's human skulls everywhere.

00:45:14.000 There's pictures of books killing people.

00:45:16.000 This guy, you come in, he starts screaming, and all the people who are getting tattooed at that moment, they all get up, and they run out to this place, they lock the door, and I look at Mars, and I'm like...

00:45:26.000 Yeah, I'm like, I'm getting out of here.

00:45:27.000 You know, because this is a really weird situation.

00:45:30.000 But no, he put me on the table, put the tattoo on.

00:45:32.000 He did good work.

00:45:32.000 He did a great work, you know.

00:45:34.000 But he started looking.

00:45:35.000 We made pictures.

00:45:36.000 I was taking pictures.

00:45:37.000 I was taking video of you.

00:45:39.000 Yeah, because I have a skull with a bullet hole in there.

00:45:42.000 I was going to actually record an audio will as well.

00:45:45.000 So you said there was a cage where Masato used to train?

00:45:49.000 Masato the kickboxer?

00:45:50.000 Yeah.

00:45:51.000 The K1 champion?

00:45:52.000 Yeah.

00:45:52.000 So he would train in a cage in a basement.

00:45:55.000 Five stories below.

00:45:56.000 I mean, we kept going down.

00:45:58.000 It was the craziest thing.

00:45:59.000 If you think about all the earthquakes they have, you know, you go like that.

00:46:02.000 I don't know if it was his regular training.

00:46:03.000 Also with the Dobermans in there.

00:46:05.000 Yeah, I don't know if it was his regular training, Joe, but that's what the guy said that it was Masato.

00:46:10.000 He may have even maybe had an interest in Masato.

00:46:12.000 Do you remember when Masato fought Cool Vince Phillips?

00:46:15.000 Cool Vince Phillips.

00:46:16.000 Cool Vince Phillips, the boxer.

00:46:18.000 Yeah, the boxer.

00:46:18.000 American boxing champion.

00:46:20.000 Yeah, and he went over and fought Masato.

00:46:20.000 The boxer, right.

00:46:23.000 Masato.

00:46:23.000 What?

00:46:24.000 He lit those legs up.

00:46:26.000 Masato's an animal at that time. 0.82

00:46:28.000 I mean, even against the Dutch guys, he was insane.

00:46:30.000 See if you can find that, Jamie.

00:46:31.000 Yeah.

00:46:31.000 See if you can find Masato versus Vince Phillips.

00:46:33.000 It's really interesting to see like a top flight...

00:46:34.000 He lit those legs up like a Christmas tree box.

00:46:36.000 If you can see a top flight American boxer fight against a kickboxer, you know, in his prime.

00:46:43.000 K1 Max, 2003. Here we are.

00:46:45.000 Yeah, but, you know, in...

00:46:48.000 Vince Phillips, in his defense, he was beyond his prime.

00:46:52.000 His body had started to fade, but look at that, he kicked across the legs.

00:46:57.000 Who was it that took one kick and got out of the ring? 0.65

00:47:00.000 Ray Mercer?

00:47:01.000 No, Ray Mercer knocked out.

00:47:03.000 Mercer was with akimbo in the MMA thing, but who was the fighter that went to Japan, the American boxer, and took one kick and stopped, got out of the ring?

00:47:12.000 Oh, it was in K1, right?

00:47:13.000 Yeah, it was Tommy Mercer?

00:47:13.000 Yeah.

00:47:15.000 Not Morrison.

00:47:16.000 No.

00:47:16.000 No, no, no.

00:47:17.000 Yeah, sorry.

00:47:19.000 But it was similar.

00:47:20.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:47:20.000 Yeah, it was a blonde guy.

00:47:21.000 But look at Masato was awesome.

00:47:24.000 And the boxing stance doesn't really help for the right here.

00:47:27.000 No, he's getting his arms lit up too.

00:47:30.000 And Masato was going across the arms and across the back leg too.

00:47:35.000 Rob Kamen style.

00:47:36.000 He did a lot of that.

00:47:37.000 And he just moved a lot and just kicked those legs.

00:47:39.000 Like every time.

00:47:40.000 There you see Phillips is already starting to wear down.

00:47:43.000 And Masato was a good boxer, too, man.

00:47:45.000 It's like you couldn't deny his hands.

00:47:46.000 I mean, he might not have been the same boxer that Vince Phillips was in his prime, but with all those leg kicks, it makes such a difference.

00:47:52.000 Do you remember Gomi and Pulver at Shockwave?

00:47:56.000 I thought that was some of the best MMA boxing boss we'd seen at that time.

00:48:00.000 Gomi at the time was really good.

00:48:02.000 And even Pulver, right?

00:48:03.000 He just couldn't get up.

00:48:06.000 Did you remember that fight, Joe?

00:48:09.000 Yeah, Gomi knocked him down.

00:48:11.000 What about Heritonov as well?

00:48:14.000 Sergei Heritonov early in Pride showed good boxing.

00:48:17.000 I mean, everyone has that debate and argument about, oh, boxing, how are they doing MMA? We know it's two different sports, but when it comes to that aspect of MMA, the boxing...

00:48:26.000 Well, Sergei went into K-1.

00:48:28.000 He had quite a few K1 fights, and then recently got back into MMA, right?

00:48:33.000 Hasn't he done?

00:48:33.000 Didn't he?

00:48:34.000 Didn't do well in his military debut.

00:48:36.000 But he got clipped.

00:48:38.000 Complete animal, man.

00:48:39.000 He used to train with Fedor.

00:48:41.000 I remember all the way back, that was one big group.

00:48:43.000 Because I remember the split.

00:48:50.000 One of the scariest stoppages that I ever saw was against Semi Schilt. 0.98

00:48:57.000 Do you remember when he mounted Semi Schilt and got on top of him in like a mounted triangle and started smashing his eye, smashing keraton off, got on top of him, and he just punched him.

00:49:09.000 He's just punching him in one eye over and over and over again.

00:49:12.000 Yeah, I remember that.

00:49:13.000 Yeah, Semi Schilt, man.

00:49:14.000 Such a physical presence.

00:49:19.000 Semi just didn't have the ground game to deal with Karitanov back then.

00:49:23.000 And Karitanov just took him on top.

00:49:25.000 I mean, that was back when Semi was beating everybody in K-1 with that long front kick.

00:49:29.000 Remember that crazy long front kick?

00:49:31.000 But Vuvchanchin, at the time, the first time I saw Vuvchanchin, I was commentating this fight in Ukraine.

00:49:39.000 And it was a wild, that was a really, the whole trip was a wild trip.

00:49:43.000 Ask Charlie Anzalone, you know, from Vegas.

00:49:46.000 But he fought in an eight-man tournament.

00:49:49.000 He was the lightest guy.

00:49:50.000 He won a lot of tournaments.

00:49:52.000 And he destroyed all these guys.

00:49:53.000 I think the lightest guy he fought was Paul Verlens.

00:49:56.000 That was the lightest guy.

00:49:58.000 Verlens was like 330. Oh, dude, it was insane.

00:50:00.000 I mean, and he just knocked everybody out.

00:50:02.000 And I go like, hmm, this fight.

00:50:07.000 I remember he fought on this big giant mat once.

00:50:10.000 They did something that was almost like they matted up a basketball court with white mats, and he fought on it.

00:50:15.000 It's an interesting thing, but I've been bringing this up a lot lately.

00:50:18.000 I really think MMA would be better off with a larger surface and no cage.

00:50:22.000 Just like a basketball court.

00:50:24.000 Just like that size.

00:50:25.000 Well, for sight lines, definitely I agree with you.

00:50:30.000 Clinch game up against the cage. 0.96

00:50:32.000 Can't happen anymore.

00:50:33.000 Metamorous type fighting surface for MMA? Well, the problem with metamorous is it's elevated.

00:50:33.000 That's cool.

00:50:39.000 You don't want dudes falling off.

00:50:39.000 Right.

00:50:40.000 No, no, no, exactly.

00:50:41.000 But that kind of like you like that open space.

00:50:43.000 Yeah, I think a big open space on the ground.

00:50:46.000 Just matted ground.

00:50:47.000 Well, Yama's still out of cage, though, too.

00:50:47.000 The Yama?

00:50:49.000 Well, they had that dip, too.

00:50:51.000 That dip.

00:50:52.000 Four cameras is not going to work.

00:50:53.000 It's going to be very hard for the audience to Right.

00:50:56.000 Because it's all one level.

00:50:57.000 But that's what the basketball court is.

00:51:00.000 The basketball court's all one level.

00:51:02.000 Yeah, that's true.

00:51:03.000 Yeah, a lot of people say, though, when they go to an event, that they are watching the screen because of that, right?

00:51:07.000 Yeah.

00:51:08.000 I think you could do it on a basketball court.

00:51:10.000 I just think that...

00:51:11.000 But they still see here, the basketball boards, the people on the floor, they can at least see the cage, the bottom of the cage, but if somebody sits in front of them, they can't see anything.

00:51:21.000 Well, if you have tiered seating, if you have tiered stadium-style seating, and then there'll be a front row, and then there's got to be some sort of dividing line, because you don't want to get run over if you're in the front row. 0.99

00:51:31.000 Some fucking gorilla. 0.98

00:51:32.000 It's like wrestling, college wrestling. 1.00

00:51:34.000 Yeah, if Big Ben Rothwell comes piling through and slams on your girlfriend and breaks both her legs.

00:51:40.000 Or Travis Brown.

00:51:40.000 Yeah, anybody who's in the front row.

00:51:42.000 Yeah, that could be a problem.

00:51:44.000 That could be an issue.

00:51:45.000 The front row could be an issue. 0.99

00:51:46.000 But as long as they keep people from piling into the crowd.

00:51:49.000 Because if you could have that, you would be able to watch something happen with no cage.

00:51:54.000 There's one thing that I see over and over again.

00:51:56.000 It's a very grueling aspect to MMA when guys are tied up against the cage and they're clenching and they're throwing knees to the body and they're throwing elbows in tight.

00:52:04.000 And it is a grueling sort of...

00:52:05.000 But it's also grueling in an artificial way.

00:52:08.000 It's artificial that they're pressed up against something.

00:52:10.000 And that cage becomes a factor in the fight, but it doesn't have to be a factor.

00:52:15.000 I think the more factors you can remove, like extraneous factors outside of your opponent, the better.

00:52:22.000 A wall is an extraneous factor.

00:52:25.000 And you can use it to your advantage.

00:52:27.000 You press people up, you take them down with it.

00:52:29.000 There's a lot of things you can do to get back up from it, but I really feel like it's an extraneous...

00:52:33.000 What about an automatic break?

00:52:35.000 Or is that taking too much, then, away from the fight?

00:52:37.000 If you go against the fence, okay, stop? 1.00

00:52:39.000 That stupid tear ruined it, right? 1.00

00:52:40.000 That's no good. 1.00

00:52:41.000 The fence will have electricity on the fence.

00:52:44.000 That would be something.

00:52:47.000 I said it would hold people down.

00:52:50.000 People who are total savages, they would hold someone down against the fence, see who could take the pain the most.

00:52:55.000 Both of you. 0.95

00:52:56.000 Oh, I wouldn't do that.

00:52:57.000 Just grab the fence and shove him into it. 0.71

00:53:00.000 You're both jolted, frozen up, your ears are smoking.

00:53:02.000 Coming to the Olympics soon.

00:53:05.000 But you know, the difference going from a ring to a cage is already huge.

00:53:09.000 Because there's no corners, so I can only imagine that.

00:53:11.000 No more wall walking, no more everything.

00:53:14.000 That Bernard Hopkins knockout last week?

00:53:16.000 Oh yeah.

00:53:19.000 Horrible.

00:53:20.000 Not last week, last month actually.

00:53:22.000 But when he went through that ring like that and fell down on his head, I was like, how do they not...

00:53:28.000 Protect against this.

00:53:29.000 I know this doesn't happen that often.

00:53:31.000 I know this doesn't happen that often.

00:53:32.000 Frank!

00:53:33.000 Frank and I, we flew out at a ring as well.

00:53:37.000 But in Pride, they have an army of people, right?

00:53:40.000 They were already there with their numbers on their back.

00:53:42.000 Remember those guys?

00:53:43.000 But that was always one of the problems about the Pride ring, right?

00:53:47.000 You force a break.

00:53:47.000 Well, it happens in Lion Fight 2. I was watching one of Kyle Hollenbeck's fights, and he fell out of the ring and smacked his knees on the edge of the apron as he was falling out.

00:53:56.000 I remember Marvin Eastman falling out of a ring in Vancouver, almost seriously hurting himself as well before he got the goat's vagina. 1.00

00:54:03.000 Why don't they have like a netting in between the ropes to prevent people from falling through? 0.85

00:54:08.000 It would still serve the same purpose.

00:54:10.000 You would think so, right?

00:54:11.000 Yeah.

00:54:11.000 Or more vertical ropes as well in between.

00:54:14.000 Do you remember the old Vali Tudo fight between Pele and Chuck Liddell?

00:54:20.000 They had a net under the first rope.

00:54:23.000 The bottom rope.

00:54:25.000 Chuck was shoving him in there and they were bare knuckle fighting.

00:54:29.000 Chuck was punching him in the face bare knuckle.

00:54:32.000 And he couldn't escape.

00:54:33.000 He just locked him up in the net.

00:54:35.000 Like a fish. 0.99

00:54:36.000 Getting the fuck beat out of him. 1.00

00:54:38.000 Jesus Christ. 1.00

00:54:39.000 Gary Goodrich with the Pedro when he went to squeeze the pelotas. 1.00

00:54:42.000 Yeah, he went right into his pants and grabbed ahold of his junk and crushed his balls with his hand. 0.99

00:54:47.000 And he had some grip, man, I can tell you. 1.00

00:54:49.000 I was at a hotel one time getting a massage, and while I'm getting the massage, the girl, they put a towel over your face.

00:54:57.000 Right?

00:54:57.000 So I don't know who's massaging me.

00:55:00.000 And suddenly the massage gets stronger and stronger and stronger and she starts crushing my shins, you know, like really hard. 0.98

00:55:07.000 So I throw the towel off and go, hey!

00:55:09.000 And it's Big Daddy Goodreads.

00:55:11.000 He walked in and he said, shh, do the girl. 0.98

00:55:13.000 He starts taking over the massage. 0.99

00:55:15.000 And then he squeezed the crap out of my legs. 0.99

00:55:17.000 So I know he has a grip. 0.99

00:55:19.000 Yeah, what a crazy thing.

00:55:20.000 That was a rule. 0.99

00:55:21.000 You were allowed to grab the balls. 0.99

00:55:23.000 What about the rules? 0.99

00:55:25.000 We'll never see knees to the head, right, under the unified rules?

00:55:28.000 They just implemented some more rules. 0.97

00:55:30.000 You wanted to get rid of the midnight or 12 to 6 rule stupid, but they haven't changed that, right? 0.84

00:55:37.000 We should explain to people what it means. 0.97

00:55:39.000 In mixed martial arts, you're not allowed to drop an elbow down from vertical.

00:55:43.000 You can't drop it from 12 to 6 on a clock.

00:55:45.000 And the only reason why that was invented is back in the day when the commissions were approving MMA, Big John McCarthy had a meet with them and they wouldn't let anybody do that because they had seen people break bricks on ESPN by dropping elbows like that.

00:55:59.000 Like if someone could break a brick they could kill a person.

00:56:01.000 And it can do it like this, right?

00:56:03.000 With the forearm. 1.00

00:56:04.000 It's so stupid. 1.00

00:56:05.000 It's so stupid. 1.00

00:56:06.000 I mean, it's probably like one of the... 1.00

00:56:08.000 I mean, I wouldn't say it's the weak...

00:56:09.000 It might be my weakest elbow, but it's one of the weaker elbows.

00:56:13.000 I don't think it's nearly as strong as that kind of elbow.

00:56:15.000 Plus, if you hit a skull, I can tell.

00:56:17.000 It still splintered for me when I fought Randleman.

00:56:20.000 Okay, that was from three to whatever you want to...

00:56:22.000 Nine, you know, the horizontal elbows.

00:56:25.000 But still, you don't want to hit a skull.

00:56:27.000 Chunks float around in there still?

00:56:28.000 Yeah, you can feel these little pieces, you know?

00:56:30.000 It's a...

00:56:31.000 It's from the skull from Gavin.

00:56:34.000 Yikes. 0.99

00:56:34.000 Yeah, it's just a dumb rule. 0.99

00:56:37.000 That's the one blemish in Jon Jones' record when he fought Matt Hamill. 0.92

00:56:40.000 He was dropping those elbows in.

00:56:42.000 That would be totally illegal.

00:56:45.000 I don't know why they haven't put that back in.

00:56:47.000 Well, I thought that's what they were going to do.

00:56:50.000 Maybe if they hit an ice socket.

00:56:52.000 Yeah, maybe, maybe.

00:56:53.000 Then the eye could be really damaged, but then again, you know?

00:56:56.000 But you could do that standing.

00:56:57.000 Like, someone could tomahawk you standing, and it could go right into your eye socket.

00:57:01.000 What about soccer kicks and stomps, Mr. Rogan?

00:57:03.000 Well, see, that's one of the things that we could have if we had a basketball court.

00:57:08.000 You know, you would have soccer kicks on the ground, like, for sure.

00:57:11.000 I think so.

00:57:11.000 You like it?

00:57:13.000 Yeah, I think if you can punch somebody on the ground, you should be able to kick them on the ground.

00:57:17.000 Remember Vanderlei Silva on Yuki Kondo, but he was first of all breaking the ropes and then stomping his head like a grape.

00:57:22.000 I couldn't believe it.

00:57:23.000 Tamora, right?

00:57:25.000 Kondo.

00:57:26.000 Vanderlei Silva against Yuki Kondo, who's actually fighting in the Czech Republic.

00:57:30.000 He did it to Tamora, too.

00:57:31.000 Didn't he do it to Tamora?

00:57:33.000 The shooter box team, Mauricio Shogun, who will love those soccer kicks, man.

00:57:39.000 He pedaled kick this head.

00:57:41.000 Remember Rona disfiguring Sakuraba's face, looked like the Elephant Man, too?

00:57:46.000 There were some violent endings.

00:57:48.000 Well, the most violent, I think, is probably when Sakuraba fought Melvin Manhoof.

00:57:53.000 That was horrendous.

00:57:54.000 Melvin was coming up in his prime, and Sakuraba was on the way down, and Melvin was arguably one of the scariest knockout artists of all time.

00:58:03.000 Just unbelievably violent.

00:58:05.000 Just took violence to a totally different level.

00:58:08.000 Knocked out Mark Hunt with Mark Hunt.

00:58:10.000 You know what I think?

00:58:13.000 Mark had a double knockout there, and you've got to pull it up to see if I'm right.

00:58:18.000 I believe...

00:58:19.000 If my mind serves me well...

00:58:20.000 He was knocked out twice?

00:58:21.000 No, he was knocked out, and when he fell down, he hit the cup, also for Manhoof.

00:58:26.000 And we in Holland, we all have the steel cups, and he hits it hard.

00:58:28.000 He falls down, you see his hat, boom, on the cup, and I think maybe that sealed the deal right there.

00:58:33.000 Oh, interesting.

00:58:34.000 We'll find that.

00:58:35.000 Hunt versus Manhoof.

00:58:36.000 What a story, Mark Hunt.

00:58:38.000 Well, now you probably heard what he's doing with the law, but again, another guy...

00:58:42.000 Well, let's explain that.

00:58:42.000 Because he's got a lawsuit against the UFC, because the UFC... They...

00:58:42.000 Oh, yeah, go ahead.

00:58:48.000 He's saying that they knew...

00:58:50.000 Here's the fight.

00:58:51.000 Oh, hold on.

00:58:52.000 Back there.

00:58:54.000 Watch.

00:58:54.000 Right here.

00:58:55.000 I hope I... He charges.

00:58:56.000 Bam! 0.98

00:58:57.000 Catches him.

00:58:58.000 Full on the...

00:58:58.000 See?

00:58:59.000 Yeah, and he hit him a bunch of times.

00:59:00.000 It's like he hips bumps him forward with the steel cup.

00:59:03.000 He hit him a bunch more times on the way down, too.

00:59:05.000 Dunk.

00:59:05.000 Here you go.

00:59:05.000 Yeah.

00:59:07.000 And Mark Jehunt charges that.

00:59:09.000 Bam! 0.98

00:59:10.000 You see?

00:59:10.000 Yeah, boom.

00:59:11.000 Yeah, yeah, he did.

00:59:12.000 Right into the steel cup, man.

00:59:12.000 He looked like...

00:59:14.000 And it's like he was sprawling almost.

00:59:15.000 He pushed his hips forward.

00:59:17.000 Wow.

00:59:18.000 Yeah, he still is an animal, Manuf. 0.96

00:59:20.000 The only guy that I ever rolled with that wore one of those steel cups was Amir. 0.99

00:59:25.000 Renovardi, he used to wear one of those steel cups, and he'd get on top of you and mount you with that fucking steel cup. 1.00

00:59:30.000 That's a goddamn weapon. 0.99

00:59:33.000 Press it into the thing. 1.00

00:59:34.000 That's a horrendous place to be.

00:59:35.000 He was the star of your stag.

00:59:37.000 Huh?

00:59:38.000 Yeah, he was?

00:59:38.000 He was the star of your stag?

00:59:40.000 No, he was the star of your stag.

00:59:41.000 People don't understand.

00:59:43.000 In half guard, if I sit in half guard, in somebody's half guard, right, and if I sit in it, I grab him by the head, I can literally bounce his own knee into his face.

00:59:50.000 That's a legal move in MMA. And it's a real easy thing to do.

00:59:56.000 Imagine, the knee is right over here, I grab the head, I just thrust my hips forward, his own knee will bash in his face.

01:00:02.000 And I ask Big Joe McCarthy, he says, yeah, that's a legal move.

01:00:05.000 I go, man, I haven't seen anybody do that.

01:00:07.000 Matt Lindland knocking himself up a different way.

01:00:09.000 So you're pushing his head into his knee?

01:00:12.000 No, I grab his head by the top, you know, so he cannot push me backwards.

01:00:16.000 And then I drive my hips forward, and his own knee, because his leg is here over, his own knee sits here, I jam it into his own face. 0.99

01:00:24.000 And he's going to stop my hip power, which is going to be very hard to do for him in that sort of position.

01:00:31.000 Have you drilled that?

01:00:33.000 In my class, I teach it.

01:00:35.000 Huh.

01:00:36.000 And guys pull that off?

01:00:37.000 Oh, it's a real easy thing.

01:00:39.000 It's very hard for you to stop me.

01:00:40.000 That's interesting.

01:00:41.000 We can jump in the background so you feel like I can show it to you.

01:00:45.000 Isn't that funny when people learn things and you go, oh, well, there's that now.

01:00:48.000 Right.

01:00:49.000 You know, like for a long time, guys would go and they would go and throw underhooks on, like from the half guard, and then they would try to like snake up to your body and then work their way in.

01:00:58.000 But then people started darsing people.

01:01:00.000 Right.

01:01:00.000 So then that underhook became like a real liability for those long-arm dars guys.

01:01:04.000 Yep.

01:01:05.000 And then it just sort of had a change, you know?

01:01:08.000 People have to evolve.

01:01:09.000 Adapt.

01:01:09.000 I always like that.

01:01:10.000 We saw it in the early days with the kickboxing, Thai boxing, Rubble Deckers, you know, in the clinch, pushing somebody away, boom, high kick.

01:01:16.000 And it went down.

01:01:17.000 And then you see everybody starts doing it, and everybody knows it.

01:01:20.000 And then he did.

01:01:20.000 It doesn't work anymore.

01:01:21.000 He pushed away with the low kick.

01:01:23.000 And I go, wow, and I teach this a lot in my class, too, because if I push you, your balance shifts backwards so you don't flex your leg.

01:01:30.000 That low kick doesn't need to be hard, trust me, because the muscle is relaxed.

01:01:34.000 It goes straight through.

01:01:35.000 So a little push while you kick is a very good thing to do.

01:01:38.000 You look at the expeditious evolution of it.

01:01:40.000 When we go back, I remember doing voiceover for some pancreas fights for Fight Network in Toronto.

01:01:45.000 And you watch a sport under what was MMA rules and, well, there's that, there's that.

01:01:51.000 But it just didn't exist to them at the time in the mindset or the drilling, as you say.

01:02:00.000 And it's...

01:02:01.000 It's interesting when you look at now people who that's all they've trained in.

01:02:05.000 Guys like, well, Cordy Garbrandt, for instance, and all these kids.

01:02:09.000 T.J. Dillashaw.

01:02:11.000 I love watching this.

01:02:13.000 The growth.

01:02:14.000 There's only a certain amount of moves that you can do, right?

01:02:16.000 Like, armbars, everybody knows those.

01:02:17.000 So many courts.

01:02:18.000 It's the way towards those.

01:02:21.000 If you find a different way going to that certain armbar, then you surprise somebody.

01:02:25.000 And you see that happening a lot.

01:02:26.000 Suddenly there's a triangle choke, a new triangle choke set up. 0.99

01:02:29.000 Then everybody starts doing it and then it's gone again.

01:02:31.000 But it's just about that.

01:02:32.000 The move is there.

01:02:33.000 But what about kicks?

01:02:34.000 What about certain kicks, right?

01:02:35.000 Karate and Taekwondo.

01:02:37.000 But the same thing there.

01:02:37.000 People thought, oh, that would never work.

01:02:39.000 And all of a sudden, everyone's, you know, for a while, the front kick to the face.

01:02:42.000 Well, you've seen that with Wonderboy.

01:02:45.000 You know, Wonderboy is a perfect example of what I thought was going to be the next stage of evolution is these sport karate guys.

01:02:51.000 The guys, you know, like Michael Venom Page, Machida, Raymond Daniels, Daniels, love Daniels.

01:02:58.000 And what these guys are doing is they're showing that if you have all those other skills, well then those traditional martial arts techniques become very novel and people don't know what to do with them.

01:03:07.000 Like with Wonderboy, when he starts stabbing people with that front leg side kick and then throws that front leg round kick, people don't know what to do with them.

01:03:14.000 And he's also got that crazy style of leaning back and forth like a snake and popping back in.

01:03:20.000 It's going to be very interesting, the rematch though, because I think even though it was a draw, and I guess according to the scorecard it would be a draw, when you look at who did more damage, it's clearly Woodley.

01:03:31.000 Woodley did way more damage. 0.71

01:03:33.000 In two rounds, he had Wonderboy in some serious shit. 0.87

01:03:38.000 And also, for whatever inexplicable reason, and he doesn't even know why, I asked him about it after the fight, he didn't take him down after the first round. 0.96

01:03:45.000 He was like, if you ask me right now, I have no idea why I didn't.

01:03:49.000 He's like, I got 20 years of wrestling, you would think I would use it.

01:03:52.000 And he had so much success in the first round taking him down.

01:03:55.000 But then again, he almost knocked him out in the fourth round, too.

01:03:58.000 Remember, he stunned him in the fourth round.

01:04:00.000 You saw his eyes move.

01:04:02.000 It was an interesting fight because Wonderboy did regain some points and regain some ground, but he never really had Woodley in any real trouble.

01:04:02.000 Yeah.

01:04:13.000 And I think that is always the ultimate point of fighting.

01:04:16.000 It's like, who puts the other person in grave danger?

01:04:19.000 And clearly, Woodley put Wonderboy in grave danger.

01:04:23.000 He had him stunned. 0.99

01:04:24.000 He had him fucked up. 1.00

01:04:25.000 He was beating him up. 1.00

01:04:26.000 He cut him. 0.93

01:04:27.000 He had him in a guillotine. 0.99

01:04:28.000 It looked like his head was going to pop off.

01:04:30.000 He had him in far more danger.

01:04:32.000 Yeah, the guillotine was something else.

01:04:33.000 I could not believe he escaped.

01:04:37.000 I just wonder how he holds his hands.

01:04:42.000 There's different ways to hold your hands where you can really accentuate the bone into the neck.

01:04:49.000 There's little minute details in guillotines that you never know.

01:04:54.000 Ask the alpha male members. 0.87

01:04:56.000 Those guys are wicked ones. 0.88

01:04:59.000 And of course, Marcelo Garcia.

01:05:00.000 He's probably got one of the best guillotines I've ever seen in a straight grappling competition. 0.79

01:05:06.000 You know, and then Cody McKenzie had that fucking crazy guillotine where he'd push down the side and that's what John Jones used to do.

01:05:11.000 Hey, over him during Pride Days, remember he had a slick guillotine? 0.97

01:05:16.000 Vitor Belfort, right?

01:05:18.000 He's in my class like a while ago.

01:05:20.000 This was in my old gym and we've been working out and teaching my class.

01:05:23.000 I said, hey, would you like to teach the guillotine to the guys?

01:05:26.000 He said, yeah, put me in it first so I can feel how it is.

01:05:26.000 Yeah, sure.

01:05:29.000 But he went freaking 80%.

01:05:31.000 And I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

01:05:32.000 I mean, that was a scary...

01:05:33.000 So what's the key then?

01:05:35.000 Why was it so scary?

01:05:35.000 No, because he's got these long arms.

01:05:36.000 Okay.

01:05:37.000 You know, and then they go around and it's like the prayer guilty.

01:05:39.000 He gets so jacked.

01:05:41.000 It's a blood choke.

01:05:42.000 It becomes a blood choke as well.

01:05:44.000 Instead of just crushing the windpipe.

01:05:45.000 Yeah, he's so jacked. 1.00

01:05:48.000 He's such a fucking giant dude, too, with those long-ass arms. 0.99

01:05:51.000 You know, you should see him doing, like, lifting cars and all that stuff that he did in Holland and walking with, like, 150 kilos, you know, 75 kilos in each thing, and then running with it. 0.99

01:06:01.000 You know, like a suitcase.

01:06:02.000 Again, another guy represents redemption in the sport, and you hear, you know, now what's going on with Ronda and everything, but even Mark Hunt, like, there's MMA. You know, I spent a few years now doing boxing where one lost...

01:06:14.000 Ruins your career, it seems, for whatever stupid reason. 0.99

01:06:17.000 But in MMA, there are so many redemption. 0.99

01:06:20.000 Even Overeem has been up, down, up, down.

01:06:22.000 There's still a bad narrative in boxing, unfortunately, that someone who loses a fight doesn't come back and wins.

01:06:27.000 I thought MMA was going to help that.

01:06:28.000 I think for a bit it did.

01:06:30.000 I mean, Bernard Hopkins had an Hall of Fame career after losing his first fight, so I don't understand that.

01:06:37.000 Dan Gable.

01:06:37.000 Dan Gable, we were interviewing him, and he saw these records with Randy Couture record and other records, and he goes like, these are world champions?

01:06:46.000 These are Hall of Famers?

01:06:46.000 Yeah, I remember that.

01:06:47.000 But we're talking to a guy who lost once in his life, you know?

01:06:50.000 So he goes, oh, I didn't know that.

01:06:52.000 He was totally shocked by it.

01:06:54.000 He said, well, many ways to win, many ways to lose, right?

01:06:56.000 Yeah, way different world when people are throwing their punches and kicks and catching you with knees when you're trying to take them down.

01:07:03.000 And Mirko Krokop was the guy who told us in Japan that if you don't lose in MMA, you really haven't fought.

01:07:08.000 I mean, he was trying to make the point of, you know, it's so tough and different and tough guys, it's going to happen, man.

01:07:15.000 Well, it's also evolving.

01:07:17.000 It's such a radical pace.

01:07:19.000 I mean, you're seeing all these new approaches constantly changing, constantly evolving.

01:07:23.000 So many great minds involved.

01:07:24.000 And that's what I like.

01:07:26.000 I mean, Fira Sahabi, and I mean, the list can go on, but that's what, to me, that's what I've become now a bit more of a nerd because you call so many fights and you try to have a life as well, but I'm really now getting back into, okay, let's catch up and see what these different minds are saying.

01:07:40.000 Well, and you yourself, sir, even, you know, listening to this.

01:07:42.000 It's just always so cool to hear different perspectives and, okay, what's going to work?

01:07:47.000 What's going to work?

01:07:48.000 I think that's super important.

01:07:49.000 I think that's why BJ is going to do good.

01:07:49.000 For all of us.

01:07:52.000 I truly believe.

01:07:52.000 Really.

01:07:53.000 I'm hoping.

01:07:54.000 Because he changed camp.

01:07:55.000 I think a talent like BJ in his training in Hawaii, you know, he kind of dictates whatever he wants to do.

01:08:01.000 He's so talented.

01:08:02.000 He schools people around.

01:08:03.000 And that's why when you put people like that under pressure, they get tired because they never experienced that in the ring because he's so way ahead above everybody else.

01:08:10.000 So if they want to do extra three rounds with him and he doesn't want to do it, he's going, ah, I'm not going to do it.

01:08:14.000 I think it's a bad matchup.

01:08:15.000 You can't pull that trick.

01:08:16.000 At Greg Winklejohn, you know, and there he's got all these guys gunning for him.

01:08:20.000 I mean, I can only imagine the sparring sessions they have going on.

01:08:20.000 It's a legend.

01:08:23.000 I think it's going to do really well for him.

01:08:25.000 Now, his opponent, yeah, Rodriguez, is really good.

01:08:27.000 Okay, but I... Because we've been in that conflict the whole time.

01:08:30.000 Honestly, I mean, he's a Hall of Famer.

01:08:32.000 He's done everything.

01:08:33.000 We saw against Frankie Edgar.

01:08:35.000 What is it we talked about on our podcast?

01:08:36.000 The last win was Matt Hughes, 2010. Do you...

01:08:39.000 Why do you think he's still fighting?

01:08:41.000 Well, he probably feels like he didn't do it right.

01:08:44.000 He probably feels like the fights he took with Frankie where he had that really bizarre stand-up stance.

01:08:49.000 That was the weirdest thing that the oldest guy I've ever seen. 0.87

01:08:52.000 He decided that he was going to fight that way because it was more efficient and that it didn't use as much energy as widening his stance.

01:08:58.000 I think a lot of his career, he was concerned with losing his energy in the ring.

01:09:04.000 A lot of his career, he's worried about gassing out.

01:09:06.000 So then he went with Marv Marinovich, right?

01:09:08.000 So he does these two camps with Marv Marinovich.

01:09:10.000 At least two camps, correct?

01:09:12.000 He did Sean Shirk, and I think he did Diego Sanchez.

01:09:14.000 I know he did Diego Sanchez.

01:09:16.000 Because I know also that Steve Maxwell was training Diego Sanchez, got Sanchez in incredible shape.

01:09:21.000 But that was BJ in his prime. 1.00

01:09:23.000 And when BJ wasn't tired, when he was in shape, and he was joking around about it, like, when I have a six-pack, you're fucked. 1.00

01:09:29.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:09:29.000 He was just a different animal back then, but it was only sustainable for a few fights. 0.99

01:09:37.000 I think with BJ, for whatever reason, it was hard for him to get totally motivated to get into that kind of shape again.

01:09:44.000 When he described it, it sounded hellacious, like he couldn't hold his daughter, literally so tired after working out that he couldn't even...

01:09:51.000 Hold his kid.

01:09:53.000 And they have a very specific training philosophy, too.

01:09:55.000 The Mirinovichs, in a lot of ways, some of the guys, like Nick Kurson, who trains under his philosophy and speed of sport in California, they want strength and conditioning to be number one, priority number one.

01:10:09.000 You already know how to fight.

01:10:10.000 I love that.

01:10:10.000 Yeah, and the idea is, you already know how to fight.

01:10:13.000 So since you already know how to fight, you should just work on having the most incredible Aerobic threshold.

01:10:18.000 That goes back to Frank and...

01:10:20.000 Plyometrics.

01:10:22.000 Tito Ortiz.

01:10:23.000 Well, yeah, but even Frank with...

01:10:25.000 Why am I... He's going to kill him. 0.98

01:10:26.000 Maurice Smith with their partnership at the beginning. 0.94

01:10:29.000 That's what Frank was all about.

01:10:31.000 Cardio.

01:10:32.000 It was so important, man.

01:10:34.000 On the bus back when Tito lost to Frank, I was in the same bus going back to the airport, and Tito jumped next to me and he starts asking me questions about stamina because I always said, it's the most important thing.

01:10:45.000 You can never have enough stamina.

01:10:46.000 It's the most important. 0.74

01:10:47.000 So he started asking drills and doing all these things, and then he became that crazy psycho cardio monster, and he started beating everybody.

01:10:54.000 He transferred that to Kendall Grove and a lot of the guys he trained under the Ultimate Fighter.

01:10:59.000 You know, Kendall came out of that show, and that's what he told me.

01:11:02.000 He's like, it's all cardio, man.

01:11:03.000 Everything is about cardio.

01:11:05.000 But again, cardio also...

01:11:07.000 What about the nerves, then, and how much panicking and your emotions drain?

01:11:12.000 Like, what I'm saying is...

01:11:12.000 It plays a factor in it, but the actual, real, cold, hard cardio plays a factor, too.

01:11:18.000 And it also plays a factor in your nerves.

01:11:18.000 Right.

01:11:20.000 Because if you know that you have a small gas tank, you're starting to get lit up.

01:11:20.000 Yeah.

01:11:23.000 Yeah.

01:11:24.000 And especially when you walk to the ring, did I train hard enough?

01:11:27.000 You know, if you know that you can really go...

01:11:29.000 You know, after a workout, I would do seven, six-minute rounds in the Thai pads, full blast.

01:11:34.000 That's like 42 minutes.

01:11:36.000 But that was after a workout.

01:11:37.000 But I knew that nobody did that.

01:11:39.000 So I was not going to run out of gas because we had half-hour fights in Japan.

01:11:43.000 But it's the only way to do it, constantly go hard.

01:11:45.000 And I had guys coming who couldn't do warm-up.

01:12:12.000 Just get yourself to the point where you can get through that entire warm-up, full clip, and then train hard.

01:12:17.000 Yeah, just keep doing it.

01:12:18.000 Who do you think is a best conditioned athlete right now in MMA? What are names that come to mind?

01:12:24.000 Velasquez right away, I would think, right, Kane? 0.68

01:12:26.000 Yeah, he's a freak. 0.98

01:12:27.000 He's a freak.

01:12:28.000 I mean, there's a lot of really good guys now.

01:12:30.000 Mighty Mouse is never tired.

01:12:32.000 He's never tired.

01:12:33.000 But he's also so efficient.

01:12:34.000 You could also say the same thing about Cody and Dominic.

01:12:37.000 Yeah, I was going to say that was an amazing war for 25 minutes.

01:12:40.000 No, you're right.

01:12:41.000 It's becoming a bigger and bigger factor.

01:12:41.000 There's a lot more.

01:12:43.000 That's what I said in the opening.

01:12:44.000 In the early days, it was only the WC guys because of the lighter guys, but now everybody.

01:12:49.000 Well, the heavyweights.

01:12:50.000 It frustrated me the most.

01:12:52.000 If a guy comes in with no cardio for three rounds, it's like, are you serious?

01:12:55.000 It's like bringing half a can of paint if you're a painter.

01:12:59.000 You do the door half.

01:13:00.000 Yeah, that's the only thing I have.

01:13:01.000 It's the same thing.

01:13:02.000 But of course, you have all of Diaz too, right?

01:13:04.000 The Diaz boys?

01:13:05.000 Nick and Nate have always, I mean, when you think of, wow, the triathlons and everything.

01:13:10.000 Do you know that he swam back from Alcatraz five times now?

01:13:14.000 He's done it five times now.

01:13:15.000 He corrected me.

01:13:16.000 I said it on the podcast twice.

01:13:18.000 That's incredible, man.

01:13:19.000 He corrected me and said it five times.

01:13:21.000 Five times. 1.00

01:13:21.000 Like, what in the fuck, man? 1.00

01:13:23.000 Is he coming back soon, Nick? 0.99

01:13:25.000 Someone gets him a world title fight or a bunch of money.

01:13:25.000 He'll come back.

01:13:28.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:13:28.000 Look, I thought, like, do you know how crazy it would be if Conor fought Nick next?

01:13:32.000 Oh, yeah.

01:13:33.000 Oh, yeah.

01:13:34.000 Now you say something.

01:13:36.000 That's big, man.

01:13:37.000 I like that.

01:13:39.000 They're already saying that Conor, that he shouldn't have fought Nate because Nate was too big for him, but Nate is a 155-er, man.

01:13:47.000 That's a fight that's going to happen again if Conor stays the 155-pound champ.

01:13:52.000 It's going to happen again.

01:13:54.000 It has to.

01:13:55.000 100% agree.

01:13:56.000 Do you remember Diaz and Daly? 1.00

01:13:58.000 Oh, fuck. 1.00

01:14:00.000 Amazing. 1.00

01:14:00.000 Yeah, we're talking about it on the way over. 1.00

01:14:02.000 Yeah, sitting there just calling him like twice.

01:14:05.000 He was knocked down.

01:14:05.000 Twice.

01:14:06.000 He came back and stopped him with three seconds left.

01:14:08.000 I mean...

01:14:09.000 His recovery's always been fantastic.

01:14:11.000 Oh, man.

01:14:11.000 That's stamina.

01:14:12.000 Yeah.

01:14:12.000 What about the Goboplata and Gomi and then the frickin' THC? Why did they test for that?

01:14:17.000 Well, we don't want to get into that now, I'm sure.

01:14:18.000 Why does the Nevada State Athletic Commission test for THC? No, but why is life tests for everybody?

01:14:22.000 I could be illegal.

01:14:22.000 Come on, medicinal, my friend!

01:14:24.000 You okay?

01:14:26.000 They're saying now that they're thinking about calming down on that and then not even caring if people test positive.

01:14:33.000 Well, I hope not.

01:14:34.000 I hope so.

01:14:35.000 Which would be a good thing because the way the levels show in your skin and the way it stays in your fat, like, if you got high the night before a fight, you're not going to feel it during the fight.

01:14:45.000 No.

01:14:45.000 You're just not.

01:14:46.000 But it will show up.

01:14:46.000 If it's an animal, maybe.

01:14:48.000 Maybe.

01:14:48.000 It will show up.

01:14:49.000 Yeah, but you'd have to be really fucked up. 1.00

01:14:49.000 Maybe. 1.00

01:14:52.000 You'd probably get no sleep.

01:14:53.000 You've got to be Joey Diaz.

01:14:54.000 Yeah.

01:14:54.000 On his podcast.

01:14:56.000 I have not ever seen anybody.

01:14:58.000 One of those gummy bears was like 1,200.

01:15:01.000 I think he ate eight.

01:15:04.000 Wow.

01:15:05.000 That's so insane.

01:15:06.000 It's like that writer from the New York newspaper went to Denver and did a piece and she ate a whole chocobah.

01:15:13.000 I guess it was like eight different doses or how many different doses and wrote about her paranoia.

01:15:19.000 Yeah, you should be paranoid. 0.91

01:15:20.000 You're a little flesh bag on a planet. 0.99

01:15:22.000 I had my dog one time. 0.91

01:15:24.000 You're clinging to a planet, it's hurling through infinity. 1.00

01:15:26.000 You should be nervous as fuck. 1.00

01:15:28.000 Everywhere you go, a rock could fly out of the sky and kill you. 1.00

01:15:33.000 I made some cookies.

01:15:35.000 This is...

01:15:37.000 Ten years back, and I crack one because they're heavy cookies, and while I'm eating, a little crumble falls on the ground, and I see the dog right away running over, and I want to stop it, and I go, you know, let the dog relax.

01:15:49.000 But a little tiny bit, right?

01:15:51.000 So I'm eating it, and I have to pick up something from a friend of mine who is like 20 minutes away here somewhere in the valley.

01:15:57.000 I go pick it up, I'm back in the car, and as soon as I'm in the car, I start driving, and it hits me, you know?

01:16:02.000 So I'm gonna hit, and within two minutes, I get a phone call from my wife. 0.97

01:16:06.000 What did you do to the dog?

01:16:08.000 I remember.

01:16:09.000 And my dog stands outside, staring outside for like two and a half hours.

01:16:14.000 Wow.

01:16:15.000 No movement.

01:16:15.000 She's looking outside.

01:16:17.000 It was the funniest thing.

01:16:18.000 I came home, she was just like...

01:16:19.000 Poor Luna's been high a few times. 0.86

01:16:24.000 Luna doesn't like men, but, oh, she made a connection with Mauro.

01:16:29.000 That's a rather intimate one.

01:16:30.000 She doesn't like men? 0.98

01:16:31.000 For some reason, she'll go after you.

01:16:33.000 Wow.

01:16:34.000 Kids and women are cool, but a guy, oh, the mailman, literally, this is the dog that will go in full mode attack.

01:16:40.000 And it's a little dog.

01:16:41.000 It's 15 pounds.

01:16:42.000 What kind of dog is it?

01:16:43.000 It's like a bichon poodle.

01:16:45.000 What a cutie. 0.71

01:16:47.000 I love that dog.

01:16:48.000 Oh, that's hilarious.

01:16:51.000 Boss, how's your arm?

01:16:52.000 It looks like you're getting a lot of muscle back in your arm.

01:16:55.000 You know, at the top, I'm getting it back, but you see below, there's still something to be done.

01:16:59.000 I'm here in the valley, there's a doctor now, and he does these crazy injections also, and it's caught, the nerve is caught somewhere.

01:17:07.000 And I feel that.

01:17:08.000 The nerve is caught?

01:17:09.000 It's impinged?

01:17:11.000 Yeah, so what they say is, if you take a fire, a water hose, if you squeeze it, less water comes out.

01:17:15.000 That's the same with the nerve, less action comes out.

01:17:17.000 And that, apparently, they made this special picture that they only could do in Santa Monica, and they saw that it was blocked there, and he can, apparently, he can inject me there, and it will take the pressure off, and he believes that that's very possible it will come back then.

01:17:33.000 Wow, interesting.

01:17:35.000 Yeah, it's crazy because, you see, snapping my fingers is still very hard.

01:17:39.000 But I couldn't do that for four years.

01:17:41.000 Not even snapping my fingers.

01:17:41.000 Wow.

01:17:42.000 So slowly but surely, it works.

01:17:44.000 I just work out the arm and the shoulder.

01:17:46.000 Shoulder comes back also a little bit.

01:17:47.000 That's the thing that they say about nerves, right?

01:17:49.000 That any kind of nerve damage takes a tremendous amount of time to heal because nerves, they grow back very, very slowly.

01:17:55.000 Very slow.

01:17:56.000 And people, they don't understand it.

01:17:57.000 I always say it's like taking the spark plug out of a cylinder.

01:18:01.000 That's your nerve.

01:18:02.000 Once the nerve is broke, you take that out.

01:18:04.000 It's gone, and then the atrophy comes, you know, because people go like, how can you then be paralyzed?

01:18:08.000 I say, what happens with people who break their back, right?

01:18:11.000 I say, no more nerves going to the legs, can't walk anymore.

01:18:13.000 That's the same thing what I have right now, only the nerve is still there, it's just pressure.

01:18:17.000 I ran into some kid after a show the other day, and we were talking about neck injuries and jujitsu, and he was asking me a question.

01:18:24.000 He's like, my arm doesn't work under here, my triceps starting to fade away, and I'm like, dude, go to a doctor yesterday.

01:18:31.000 You've got to get an MRI. As soon as you start seeing atrophy and as soon as you start feeling numbness, you've got to get on it right away.

01:18:37.000 Any impingement to your necklace?

01:18:39.000 Because there are some ways that they can sort of relieve the pressure and spinal decompression and a bunch of different platelet-rich plasma-type injections, like Regenikine and stuff.

01:18:49.000 But you've got to do something.

01:18:51.000 You've got to do something quick, and you can't keep rolling.

01:18:53.000 All these guys, they want to keep going to jiu-jitsu.

01:18:55.000 Even when their back's fucked up like that, and then as you're rolling, you feel like... 0.88

01:19:00.000 You feel like that twinge and... 0.98

01:19:02.000 Yeah, shooting plane.

01:19:03.000 Not a good thing.

01:19:04.000 Doing real damage to yourself.

01:19:06.000 You've got to be super careful with any kind of nerve injuries.

01:19:08.000 I waited too long.

01:19:09.000 That was the thing with me.

01:19:10.000 I waited too long.

01:19:11.000 I saw my arm slinking and then I go, oh, I've got to go to the doctor.

01:19:14.000 But I was already...

01:19:15.000 I should have gone faster.

01:19:16.000 Yeah.

01:19:17.000 Is it the pride?

01:19:19.000 Why didn't you go sooner?

01:19:20.000 I don't know.

01:19:21.000 I thought it was going to fix itself.

01:19:22.000 I've been this indestructible guy for my whole life.

01:19:25.000 I could do anything.

01:19:26.000 I fell from windows and from roofs and never had a thing, you know?

01:19:29.000 I mean, I feel from a roof, I fell on my face on the stairs.

01:19:34.000 And all my teeth stayed in.

01:19:36.000 It's the craziest thing.

01:19:37.000 You can still tell by my front teeth I have something.

01:19:39.000 But I mean, how did my teeth not come out?

01:19:42.000 I mean, that was quite a fall.

01:19:43.000 You fell on your face from a roof?

01:19:45.000 You know what happened?

01:19:48.000 You know those, how you call those ladders?

01:19:50.000 You know the V-pointed ones?

01:19:52.000 Yes.

01:19:52.000 Right?

01:19:53.000 I'm very smart of course.

01:19:55.000 It stands like this and I'm standing it up and I'm pushing something and of course when I push, the ladder stands like this, I push myself away and I'm falling all the way down.

01:20:04.000 Oh no!

01:20:05.000 And I see a slow motion coming because one of those stance things I go like, oh, I'm going to fall on it.

01:20:11.000 I realize I'm going to fall.

01:20:13.000 It's got slow motion, so I step my arms out.

01:20:14.000 I think I'm good, but it was longer than my arms were.

01:20:17.000 Oh, Jesus Christ.

01:20:18.000 So I slam my face straight on the thing.

01:20:20.000 Wow, wow.

01:20:20.000 And I wasn't even dazed.

01:20:21.000 I go like, oh, and very gentle.

01:20:23.000 I went to my mouth.

01:20:24.000 I go, please be in it, you know?

01:20:26.000 And all my teeth were in it.

01:20:27.000 No tooth fairy for you.

01:20:29.000 That's insane.

01:20:29.000 It's insane, right?

01:20:30.000 That would have killed 80% of the population.

01:20:34.000 He walked away with no loose teeth. 1.00

01:20:36.000 That's fucking hilarious, man. 0.99

01:20:38.000 That's hilarious. 0.99

01:20:39.000 Yeah.

01:20:40.000 So, in all the times when you guys were working in Pride, did you see when they were giving guys big bags of cash?

01:20:46.000 Were you guys there for all that stuff?

01:20:47.000 Oh, yeah.

01:20:48.000 I got those.

01:20:49.000 I got those big bags because it's a commentator.

01:20:51.000 The envelope was a little lighter.

01:20:53.000 A little lighter.

01:20:54.000 Tell him about the first time what you warned me about.

01:20:56.000 When you went to the bank.

01:20:58.000 No, the first time I got paid.

01:21:00.000 The first night, Bushido, you had to come and tell me, hey, this is how it's going to go, bro.

01:21:04.000 This is how it's going to go, because it's like when you go to the bank, rob a bank, right?

01:21:08.000 They're perfectly packed, you know, crisp notes.

01:21:12.000 I mean, it looks like Monopoly money.

01:21:14.000 It really did.

01:21:14.000 It was crisp, $100 American bills.

01:21:16.000 I was living in Canada at the time.

01:21:18.000 I had to actually, I crumpled it up because when I brought brand new bills, I mean, obviously they could tell it wasn't counterfeit, but they'd always look and go, what is this?

01:21:28.000 Literally every show, brand new $100 American bills.

01:21:33.000 There was always that, in the back of your head, you'd go like...

01:21:46.000 Every fighter from like they say okay from 10 a.m.

01:21:49.000 Tomorrow morning you can come and pick up your fight There was only one room and every single fighter would in go to even guys like Miracle Kroko who I know made like two million bucks or something They made a lot of money at the time, you know, and they will go into cash They gave everybody cash Yeah, so I assume they gave him cash as well.

01:22:05.000 And I always thought, man!

01:22:07.000 But then again, if the Yakuza's involved, you maybe don't want to do that, right?

01:22:10.000 Yeah, you definitely don't want to give the Yakuza.

01:22:11.000 You're only allowed to bring $10,000 in.

01:22:12.000 Remember, they were telling family members, here's your stacks, here's your stacks.

01:22:15.000 Oh, yeah, Mark Kerr.

01:22:17.000 I mean, everybody on our team had to hold $10,000, he $10,000, because he can't bring more than $10,000.

01:22:21.000 He took one bill off, so it was less than $10,000.

01:22:25.000 Jesus Christ.

01:22:25.000 We all had the rolls in Roppongi.

01:22:27.000 That is so crazy.

01:22:29.000 Yeah, that was wild.

01:22:30.000 But it looked nice.

01:22:31.000 It looked cool.

01:22:32.000 When you came back, you felt good.

01:22:34.000 You felt like a man.

01:22:34.000 You felt like I did something.

01:22:36.000 Like a criminal without being a criminal. 0.99

01:22:38.000 If Mirko actually got $2 million in cash from the Heavyweight Grand Prix and then put that in a suitcase and went back to Croatia, that's one of the most gangster fucking things I've ever heard in my life. 0.99

01:22:49.000 We shoot off, Tim. 0.98

01:22:50.000 I mean, that's like a movie.

01:22:51.000 We should get him on the show.

01:22:51.000 That's a scene in a movie.

01:22:53.000 You beat the fuck out of everybody. 0.99

01:22:55.000 Little Titus case? 1.00

01:22:56.000 You win that sperm tournament.

01:22:58.000 Remember those sperm posters?

01:23:01.000 Oh yeah!

01:23:02.000 The really weird posters! 1.00

01:23:03.000 The fucking poster was awesome. 0.99

01:23:05.000 It's one of the posters I feel bad I got rid of. 0.99

01:23:07.000 I had that poster back then.

01:23:09.000 Oh, t-shirts.

01:23:09.000 Pride or pluck.

01:23:11.000 Remember that?

01:23:11.000 Pride or pluck.

01:23:13.000 What does that mean?

01:23:14.000 Nobody knew.

01:23:15.000 One line said, there's no such thing as doing things as usual.

01:23:23.000 There's no such thing as doing things such as usual.

01:23:27.000 Holt bought that.

01:23:28.000 He said, I gotta get that t-shirt. 1.00

01:23:30.000 That is the dumbest t-shirt I've ever seen. 0.99

01:23:33.000 Nobody's gonna get it. 0.99

01:23:34.000 Remember the Grand Prix poster with the woman breastfeeding the baby? 0.98

01:23:38.000 They were like, what the heck is going on here?

01:23:41.000 I have a Waleed Ismail t-shirt from like 1998 and it says, don't be coward, don't run off the fight.

01:23:51.000 That's what it says on it.

01:23:53.000 I know.

01:23:53.000 At the time, I was a Brazilian guy.

01:23:55.000 He said, he had t-shirts made, and he showed me, and it was a direct translation from Brazil.

01:24:00.000 Born for a fight.

01:24:02.000 Born for a fight.

01:24:03.000 I had 400. I go, good luck with that, buddy.

01:24:06.000 That's awesome.

01:24:07.000 Born for a fight.

01:24:07.000 Oh, that's hilarious.

01:24:10.000 Brutal miscalculations and translations.

01:24:12.000 Valid was hilarious.

01:24:15.000 I remember he was telling a story and then I realized what I did because this is kind of, you know, I thought it was funny.

01:24:21.000 After my Randallman fight, my face was bashed in, right?

01:24:24.000 So I blew my nose, of course, once I was in the dressing room because then I could do it.

01:24:28.000 I couldn't do it before.

01:24:28.000 So needless to say, my eyes blew up and they were closed.

01:24:32.000 I couldn't almost see anything anymore.

01:24:33.000 We all wanted to go out.

01:24:35.000 And they go, and Valid's there, and he goes, man, what are you going to do?

01:24:39.000 I said, ah, give me one second.

01:24:40.000 I had a doctor with me.

01:24:41.000 I said, give me the syringe with the whitest gouge.

01:24:43.000 You know, so I stab it in my eye, and I start sucking the blood out on both eyes.

01:24:48.000 Oh, Jesus!

01:24:49.000 Yeah, but that's when I heard Valid. 0.53

01:24:51.000 He told that story, and he goes, and then this guy stabs himself in the eye, starts sucking it out. 0.95

01:24:58.000 He puts some shades on like the freaking Terminator, and he says, come on, let's go party. 0.98

01:25:03.000 Ha ha! 0.89

01:25:03.000 I always become German when they do my accent. 0.89

01:25:06.000 Come on, let's go party.

01:25:09.000 And when I heard that, I go, yeah.

01:25:12.000 Now you see it.

01:25:13.000 When you go back in time, you go, yeah, that was maybe a weird thing to do.

01:25:15.000 Badass.

01:25:16.000 So you stuck them in your eyelids? 0.58

01:25:17.000 Like, where did you stick the needles?

01:25:19.000 Underneath the bags, you know?

01:25:20.000 Underneath the bags.

01:25:20.000 Yeah, and I tried to find.

01:25:22.000 There's nothing coming out.

01:25:22.000 You pull.

01:25:23.000 Step a little further, and suddenly you get blood.

01:25:25.000 When you do blood, you start pulling, you know?

01:25:29.000 And then I did the other eye, and I could see again. 1.00

01:25:31.000 Jesus fucking Christ. 1.00

01:25:34.000 He is the Terminator. 1.00

01:25:35.000 That is so ridiculous. 1.00

01:25:38.000 You are. 1.00

01:25:39.000 How many people have done that?

01:25:44.000 That's a super rare move. 1.00

01:25:46.000 You stick a fucking needle into the bag under your eye and suck blood out of it. 1.00

01:25:50.000 I'd say you're in a very rare company. 1.00

01:25:52.000 You know, try to stitch yourself up with normal needles.

01:25:56.000 I did that as well.

01:25:57.000 I put a video out there a long time ago.

01:25:59.000 My wife in the beginning said, don't put a video out.

01:26:01.000 Oh, I remember that.

01:26:02.000 You were with your daughters and you were stitching yourself up.

01:26:04.000 My daughter's filming and the other one is playing music on the pen flute.

01:26:07.000 The dog is walking over my leg while I'm stitching myself up.

01:26:11.000 That's super, super antiseptic.

01:26:14.000 Oh, you see, this is the start.

01:26:15.000 Oh, you farted fast.

01:26:17.000 What was that cut from?

01:26:18.000 You know, and people won't believe it.

01:26:21.000 At the time, I drank non-alcoholic beer.

01:26:24.000 And I walk outside and I grab a six-pack of bags of non-alcoholic beer.

01:26:27.000 I walk back and the six-pack breaks.

01:26:29.000 The bottles hit the ground and it shoots against my leg.

01:26:32.000 And I walk inside and I go, man, this hurts, right?

01:26:35.000 This is weird.

01:26:36.000 And then I walk a few steps and I go, man, this is crazy.

01:26:38.000 So I pull my pants down and I saw that cut.

01:26:40.000 A piece of glass was still in it.

01:26:42.000 Wow.

01:26:43.000 So I had to pull it out.

01:26:45.000 And why did you not go to an actual doctor?

01:26:47.000 Okay, because my wife was in Holland.

01:26:50.000 And the last time I did that, I overtrained in the sun for a promotion for the body action system.

01:26:56.000 And I had to go to the hospital because I was 93 degrees.

01:27:00.000 My body, I couldn't hold anything anymore.

01:27:03.000 Everything started cramping.

01:27:04.000 It was the weirdest thing.

01:27:04.000 So this was like when you were filming that commercial for the body action system?

01:27:08.000 No, I did a workout.

01:27:09.000 The video workout, I did the whole workout at noon, in the sun, on the top, and I wanted to look good on the camera, so I was hitting the thing as hard as I could.

01:27:19.000 Of course, I took all potassium, I tried everything because I knew this was gonna happen, but still, I started cramping crazy, so I went to the hospital, They put like two bags in me.

01:27:29.000 Then they put another two bags in me.

01:27:30.000 And the bags are empty.

01:27:31.000 And we've been there for a long time.

01:27:33.000 I have my kids with me because my wife is in Holland.

01:27:36.000 So they're there with me.

01:27:37.000 And it's four o'clock in the morning now.

01:27:39.000 And they still don't come back.

01:27:40.000 And it's already like an hour and a half.

01:27:41.000 And I've been asking them.

01:27:42.000 And I get angry.

01:27:44.000 So I say, you know what?

01:27:45.000 Let's go, girls. 1.00

01:27:46.000 What you never should do is pull it out yourself.

01:27:48.000 If you do that, you need to put pressure on there.

01:27:50.000 Now I know why that is.

01:27:52.000 Because I sprayed the whole room full of blood. 1.00

01:27:54.000 Shit! 1.00

01:27:55.000 So I go, oh! 1.00

01:27:57.000 So then my daughter said, hold your finger on the other one. 0.94

01:28:01.000 I pulled it out to say, and now we got to run.

01:28:03.000 So we run out of the hospital and we go back home.

01:28:06.000 You just escaped the hospital?

01:28:07.000 Escaped the hospital because I was dehydrated.

01:28:10.000 So then my wife is gone again and this thing happens and she already didn't like it that something crazy happened the first time.

01:28:16.000 So I go, you know what?

01:28:17.000 I'm not going to go to the hospital.

01:28:18.000 I'm going to be there again.

01:28:19.000 It's going to become this big story.

01:28:20.000 I'm just going to stitch it myself.

01:28:21.000 So I asked the girls to find a needle. 1.00

01:28:24.000 I tried to bend one first, like they do, but it broke.

01:28:27.000 And I go, oh no!

01:28:28.000 And then we found one more left, and they're really not sharp.

01:28:31.000 You gotta really push in order to get it in there.

01:28:34.000 But it worked.

01:28:35.000 It worked out perfectly.

01:28:36.000 I cleaned everything.

01:28:37.000 I cleaned the rope with alcohol swipes, all that stuff.

01:28:39.000 Then I started stitching it.

01:28:42.000 Not much boss can't do.

01:28:44.000 And my daughter, I go like, I say, oh, just like Rambo, I said. 0.61

01:28:48.000 And she goes, who is Rambo?

01:28:51.000 Did he do it too?

01:28:52.000 I say, yeah, yeah, he did it too.

01:28:53.000 But who is she?

01:28:54.000 Oh, so he's an actor.

01:28:55.000 Oh, it was a movie.

01:28:57.000 Yeah, it was in the movie.

01:28:58.000 So he did not do it for real.

01:29:00.000 Maybe you should not do it.

01:29:01.000 LAUGHTER Yeah, there's not a lot of people who stitch themselves up either.

01:29:07.000 If you get like a first aid kit with needles, they'll have a needle.

01:29:12.000 Because if you have one of those needles, you know, the little round ones, the hooks, it's an easy thing.

01:29:16.000 It goes in really fast.

01:29:18.000 But you slip off because it's...

01:29:20.000 You know, the hardest thing is to go in.

01:29:22.000 So what you need to do is when you have the cut, like for instance, if the one side, here's the cut and here, right?

01:29:28.000 You have to put your finger underneath, so make your finger underneath, and then you have to stab the needle there because otherwise, every time what happens is this, it slips off.

01:29:37.000 It doesn't go in.

01:29:38.000 So I had to put my finger underneath.

01:29:39.000 Going out was easier.

01:29:41.000 So once you're from the inside going out, that was easier to do.

01:29:43.000 But the going in part, that was hard because it kept slipping and it was not a really sharp needle.

01:29:49.000 Yeah, that seems like a lot of work.

01:29:51.000 Yeah, but it's better going to the hospital for four hours, right?

01:29:54.000 Yeah, have you ever crazy glued something?

01:29:57.000 Crazy glued a cup? 0.95

01:29:57.000 Oh, all my students, yeah, a lot of times. 0.95

01:30:01.000 I gotta go to the doctor.

01:30:02.000 No, you don't.

01:30:02.000 Come here.

01:30:03.000 Well, crazy glue really works. 0.94

01:30:06.000 Oh, it's the best.

01:30:08.000 As long as your finger doesn't get stuck on the wound as you're applying it.

01:30:08.000 Yeah.

01:30:12.000 Oh, who said that?

01:30:13.000 Somebody did that for fun with a French with his mouth. 1.00

01:30:16.000 Oh, that's great. 1.00

01:30:17.000 What a good friend of a fucking idiot. 1.00

01:30:19.000 Oh, Jesus. 1.00

01:30:19.000 You can get your lips ripped apart and scar tissue all over your lips. 1.00

01:30:22.000 You heard the dumbest thing that I've ever seen? 1.00

01:30:22.000 You know what? 1.00

01:30:24.000 There was a guy in Holland.

01:30:26.000 They challenged him to put a pool ball into his mouth. 1.00

01:30:30.000 Oh, fuck. 1.00

01:30:31.000 So once it was in, he did get it in. 1.00

01:30:33.000 He couldn't get it out.

01:30:34.000 They had to break his teeth out in order to get him out.

01:30:37.000 He was like... 0.93

01:30:38.000 He almost couldn't breathe because the freaking ball was in his mouth. 0.97

01:30:42.000 Oh, my God. 0.92

01:30:43.000 Let's take your ball friction to the next level, right?

01:30:45.000 Jesus Christ.

01:30:46.000 Yep. 1.00

01:30:47.000 Jesus fucking Christ. 1.00

01:30:49.000 They had to break his teeth out in order to get it out. 1.00

01:30:52.000 Oh, my God. 1.00

01:30:53.000 What a fucking retard. 1.00

01:30:54.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:30:57.000 That's such a stupid move. 1.00

01:31:00.000 Oh my god. 1.00

01:31:02.000 Can you do it?

01:31:03.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:31:03.000 What are you, fucking three? 1.00

01:31:04.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:31:05.000 You're not a three-year-old. 0.60

01:31:06.000 Don't put that ball in your mouth.

01:31:07.000 It's probably with alcohol.

01:31:09.000 Oh, you can't do it.

01:31:10.000 Oh no, you watch me.

01:31:11.000 Of course.

01:31:11.000 That is a problem.

01:31:13.000 Yeah.

01:31:13.000 Wow.

01:31:14.000 Goddamn alcohol. 0.99

01:31:18.000 So, what is going on with Inside MMA? They just stopped. 0.99

01:31:24.000 They just stopped, huh?

01:31:26.000 How long did you guys do it for?

01:31:27.000 Nine years.

01:31:28.000 You did nine years.

01:31:29.000 I did, I think, nine shows.

01:31:31.000 Yeah.

01:31:32.000 If I made that quota.

01:31:34.000 Nine years.

01:31:35.000 I mean, it was one of the most respected, independent MMA shows on TV. I loved it.

01:31:43.000 It was really good.

01:31:44.000 I would have loved to have a little bit more hats up.

01:31:47.000 But you know, well, hey, when there's a problem, I guess. 0.91

01:31:49.000 Time slots sucked. 0.92

01:31:50.000 That was the thing. 0.94

01:31:51.000 At the end, you know, to go 9.30 Pacific time, that's a bad time.

01:31:57.000 Friday night.

01:31:58.000 That's the East Coast.

01:31:59.000 She shut everything down.

01:32:00.000 It was the most DVR'd show, they said.

01:32:03.000 Yeah, well, I'm sure.

01:32:04.000 But people like to watch things when they're current, too.

01:32:07.000 You know, they'd like to have it at, like, 6 p.m.

01:32:09.000 on a weeknight.

01:32:11.000 That's what we've been saying all along.

01:32:14.000 Weeknights.

01:32:15.000 Weeknights are where you want to be, you know?

01:32:17.000 To be on a Friday night, like, oof.

01:32:19.000 Everybody's gone.

01:32:20.000 Yeah, they go out.

01:32:21.000 Yeah.

01:32:22.000 It was a good show though, man.

01:32:23.000 It was a fun show.

01:32:24.000 We had a good run, you know?

01:32:25.000 And we're back together.

01:32:27.000 The band is back together.

01:32:28.000 Oh yeah, we're doing our audio version of Inside MMA, I guess.

01:32:31.000 Although we talk other combat sports as well.

01:32:33.000 Mondays we drop the combat sports carousel, Bazito.

01:32:36.000 That's what it is?

01:32:37.000 The Combat Sports Carousel?

01:32:38.000 Yeah, and then we do Rutan and Ranallo, which is more us just riffing on pop culture events and try to add some positivity, try to find some good news stories to share in this deeply divided world of ours.

01:32:49.000 So yeah, we just, we enjoy working with each other and it's been a blessing to be reunited with the man here.

01:32:55.000 You're a busy dude, man.

01:32:57.000 Are you still doing boxing commentary as well?

01:32:59.000 So you're doing WWE, boxing, and two podcasts.

01:33:02.000 And the podcasts, and well, maybe not so much any longer, although Glory will always remain very near and dear to me.

01:33:10.000 Timing and they were upset that I didn't go to Germany because I had a boxing event that night and Showtime is first priority so we'll see but yeah I'm doing a championship doubleheader on Saturday at Barclays on Showtime where a unification fight which I think this year in boxing because not a great year last year for the Sweet Science and We're going to try to hopefully see more of the best fighting the best,

01:33:32.000 finally.

01:33:33.000 And I think, again, you know, people can say what they want about MMA matchmaking and everything else, but the one thing I've always liked about MMA, eventually you will see those the best fight the best.

01:33:42.000 And boxing, the politics and the money, kept that from happening.

01:33:47.000 Well, that was always the thing that kept Fedor out of the UFC. They wanted his organization.

01:33:52.000 Yeah, they wanted co-promotion.

01:33:52.000 Co-promotion.

01:33:53.000 They wanted a pile of money.

01:33:54.000 Well, we see how it helped strike.

01:33:55.000 I mean, I think everyone knows this by now.

01:33:58.000 That was the deal that broke the proverbial camel's back with Strikeforce and Showtime.

01:34:02.000 It was the Fedor, after he'd lost, they, you know...

01:34:07.000 Wanted to re-sign Fedor at that amount of money.

01:34:11.000 Showtime boss at the time, Ken Hirschman, said, you know, we need Fedor or we're not going to renew the deal.

01:34:17.000 And Strikeforce's owners, the Sharks at the time with Coker, they wanted out.

01:34:22.000 So that kind of set the ball in motion, I think, to Fedor.

01:34:26.000 Because I thought, and I think it would have still been very healthy for the sport.

01:34:29.000 I thought Strikeforce and the UFC, man, that was some good shows in Strikeforce, as we know.

01:34:34.000 Look what the alum have done in the UFC. Amazing organization, man.

01:34:37.000 Yeah, between Strikeforce and WEC, I mean, there's been quite a few champions that have come from both those organizations.

01:34:44.000 And that was a smart move by the UFC to do what they did to make sure they got them.

01:34:47.000 Yeah, by both of them.

01:34:47.000 Exactly.

01:34:48.000 Yeah, it was a very smart move.

01:34:49.000 Yep.

01:34:49.000 But there is something to be said for competition, for sure.

01:34:53.000 First of all, I'm glad there's other combat sports that are getting more and more popular, like Bellator Kickboxing, like Glory Kickboxing.

01:35:01.000 Well, your support of Glory is very...

01:35:04.000 We know, but you helped push that needle as well, my man.

01:35:08.000 And I'm glad, because I think, for me, Bud, calling all these combat sports that we've called...

01:35:13.000 In this society, in the 21st century, kickboxing at the highest level, I pick it over everything.

01:35:20.000 It's one of the most exciting sports in the world, for sure, without a doubt.

01:35:23.000 And one of the things about Glory is that, you know, even though it's an organization that maybe a lot of people have not...

01:35:30.000 Totally become aware of.

01:35:31.000 Sure.

01:35:31.000 There's world-class, world-championship-level talent.

01:35:35.000 The talent is not, like, at a low level at all.

01:35:38.000 When you've got guys like Nicky Holtzkin, and, you know, I mean, there's so much good talent.

01:35:43.000 Yeah.

01:35:44.000 Insane.

01:35:44.000 But it again comes, okay, and I guess I'll ask you, yeah.

01:35:47.000 Why do you think it...

01:35:49.000 Everyone says we need American stars, just like with you, you know, everything.

01:35:52.000 Why do you think, Laurie, is not making a bigger imprint right now in America?

01:35:56.000 That's a good question.

01:35:57.000 I wish I had the answer.

01:35:59.000 Because there's a lot of combat spots already.

01:36:01.000 I mean, look at the UFC, how many shows they got.

01:36:02.000 Sure.

01:36:03.000 That's just the UFC, so if you look at all the other ones, people don't have time.

01:36:05.000 I understand that, and I think that's also very valiant.

01:36:08.000 But I mean, to me, nothing drives me more insane than hearing MMA fans boo an incredible ground game or two athletes.

01:36:16.000 So I'm just saying, hey, if there's that segment, there is this thing called going kickboxing.

01:36:21.000 It's on UFC Fight Pass 2 now.

01:36:24.000 I'm just a little surprised and disappointed that it hasn't gotten a little more traction because these guys deserve it, man.

01:36:31.000 Yeah, it's weird.

01:36:33.000 It's weird.

01:36:33.000 I think Boss nailed it, though.

01:36:35.000 I think there's too much to watch already.

01:36:37.000 Well, look, we do this for a living, and I don't know, you watch everything.

01:36:40.000 I can't keep up anymore when I'm on the road doing WWE. And he's single.

01:36:44.000 And I'm a single man, yeah.

01:36:46.000 I'll watch.

01:36:47.000 I have to tape everything just to fast forward, and like you say, to save time, Joe.

01:36:52.000 You know, I can't.

01:36:53.000 Don't dedicate six hours because I only got two or three, and I still want to follow and cover.

01:36:59.000 Yeah, it's hard.

01:36:59.000 Yeah, and then if you want to follow Muay Thai, good luck with all that.

01:37:02.000 Good luck with all that as well.

01:37:03.000 Yeah, I mean, there's too many fights.

01:37:05.000 There's too much, yeah, you're right.

01:37:06.000 Muay Thai's the hardest thing to watch in terms of, like, get it live on television, pay-per-view.

01:37:11.000 I mean, there's some world-class fights that are going on right now, and there's no, a lot of times, there's no way to get to them.

01:37:15.000 I saw you at the Muay Thai Premier League, remember?

01:37:17.000 Yeah, yeah, I've been there, yeah, sure.

01:37:19.000 Again, Ernesto Hoos was there, all these Nikki goes, okay, but boom, still owe me money, bro.

01:37:24.000 Well, do they?

01:37:25.000 Yeah, of course.

01:37:26.000 There's so many organizations owe me money, my man.

01:37:29.000 Oh, that's true.

01:37:29.000 It is what it is.

01:37:30.000 That was a good organization.

01:37:32.000 They put together a good event, rather.

01:37:32.000 Yeah, it was.

01:37:34.000 They put together a great event.

01:37:35.000 And I think Bukao was there, remember?

01:37:37.000 Bukao, yes, exactly.

01:37:39.000 I think the world-class Muay Thai and world-class kickboxing are greatly, greatly underappreciated.

01:37:46.000 I think Fight Pass.

01:37:47.000 I mean, the ESPN deal, I think, has helped a little bit.

01:37:49.000 And of course, being on Fight Pass, I hope, is also...

01:37:51.000 I mean, when I was doing the shows and keeping track of social media, you know, there is growth.

01:37:57.000 It's not, I don't think, stagnated by any stretch of the imagination.

01:37:59.000 But again, in Europe, it is popular.

01:38:03.000 Very good ratings, right?

01:38:04.000 In the Netherlands.

01:38:06.000 Why not an Ultimate Fighter kind of show for kickboxing? 0.94

01:38:09.000 I don't think anybody gives a fuck about those shows anymore. 0.96

01:38:12.000 It's part of the problem. 0.98

01:38:14.000 I think people have seen too much reality TV. I think the novelty of it all wore off.

01:38:14.000 Yeah.

01:38:20.000 I think when Forrest Griffin and Stephen Bonner went to war in season one, and that whole cast with Kenny Florian, Diego Sanchez, it was something special. 0.95

01:38:32.000 But then, that was also before the Real Housewives and a million different fucking shows. 1.00

01:38:37.000 What is in that Hollywood? 0.98

01:38:38.000 Isn't that TV in general?

01:38:39.000 Like, I remember who wants to be a millionaire when it was on one night, 25, 30 million, then okay, two nights, three nights.

01:38:44.000 It's like everything else we do in life.

01:38:46.000 When it's good, or when it's successful, let's keep going, let's keep going until they run it into the ground.

01:38:51.000 Yeah, and it's also, there's trends.

01:38:53.000 People just get excited about certain trends, and then they get bored with certain trends.

01:38:57.000 And I think...

01:38:59.000 Reality shows in general, I think it's hard for people to get excited about a new one.

01:39:04.000 So if you had a new one that's just about a bunch of kickboxers, it's almost got to be something more.

01:39:09.000 It would be something for either a Fight Pass or Netflix.

01:39:12.000 You know, where you can watch it at one time.

01:39:14.000 I think Netflix is the way to go nowadays because you decide when you want to watch the show.

01:39:18.000 A lot of streaming services, right?

01:39:19.000 Not just Yeah, there's a ton of them.

01:39:25.000 But that's with everything, right?

01:39:28.000 And that's why, to me, kickboxing or even MMA, you can go on your phone right away, here's, okay, I got three minutes, boom, what a fight, great stuff, okay, I'm done.

01:39:36.000 It's digestible in those tiny morsels, but how do you monetize it?

01:39:40.000 How do you build an audience that's consistent?

01:39:44.000 Well, I think it's going to be a slow build.

01:39:46.000 It's not going to be like the UFC, which kind of exploded from the Ultimate Fighter.

01:39:50.000 Most sports don't explode like that.

01:39:52.000 They take a long time and several generations to build up.

01:39:56.000 MMA was so unusual in that the excitement level from watching a high-level fight was irrefutable to the point where when people would watch fights on TV, they'd be so crazy and so exciting that it was almost like undeniable.

01:40:10.000 You had to watch it.

01:40:11.000 There was just too many people watching.

01:40:13.000 That's the difference between, I think, kickboxing, it's just, the gloves are bigger, you know, they break, they don't go to the ground.

01:40:13.000 Can't take your eyes off it.

01:40:20.000 Do it with MMA gloves.

01:40:22.000 Yeah.

01:40:23.000 John Wayne Parne's been doing that.

01:40:24.000 John Wayne Parne, right?

01:40:25.000 Yeah, he does cage Muay Thai.

01:40:27.000 Get it here.

01:40:27.000 Yeah.

01:40:28.000 That's not a bad idea.

01:40:28.000 That's a good idea.

01:40:29.000 But then, you know, you see it in a cage, like, well, why can't he dig them down?

01:40:32.000 Why can't he chuck them?

01:40:35.000 Always something.

01:40:36.000 Why can't he do a flying armbar?

01:40:37.000 With troglodytes.

01:40:38.000 Yeah.

01:40:39.000 Yeah, that's fun.

01:40:41.000 We can do a lot of things.

01:40:42.000 Yeah, I mean, I think the sport is still in its growing phases.

01:40:46.000 I think as far as the talent level, you're definitely seeing what's going on in women's MMA. Women's MMA is changing pretty radically and quickly.

01:40:54.000 Yeah, we saw that now, right?

01:40:56.000 And the ratings and numbers are...

01:40:58.000 I mean, look at Watterson and Paige Van Zandt for a variety of reasons.

01:41:01.000 Again, that's...

01:41:03.000 It's weird how our society, we're fixated.

01:41:06.000 You know, the good-looking people who can fight are getting these huge numbers where, shouldn't it just be in this sport okay?

01:41:12.000 You're a fighter.

01:41:13.000 You're a talented fighter, and I know for some, but it just seems like America, especially, is about the cosmetics, right?

01:41:20.000 Well, sort of, but I don't know if that's totally fair.

01:41:23.000 Totally true?

01:41:24.000 I think what we have is we have this giant pool of hardcore fans, right?

01:41:27.000 Yep.

01:41:28.000 Who want to watch Tyron Woodley versus Wonderboy 2. People want to watch just really good fights, right?

01:41:34.000 Exactly.

01:41:34.000 There's that.

01:41:35.000 But in order to make the really big money, you've got to go outside of those folks and get that casual fan and also generate interest in 100% of the hardcore fans. 0.96

01:41:46.000 Because there's some hardcore fans that, quite honestly, will look at a fight and go, you know, I don't really give a fuck about that fight.

01:41:51.000 You know, just for whatever reason, that fight's not my fight.

01:41:51.000 Yeah.

01:41:54.000 I don't want to watch it.

01:41:55.000 And so if that's a big pay-per-view night for the UFC, there's a certain percentage of even the hardcore fans that'll say, you know what, I feel better saving my 60 bucks, and then I'll find out an hour later who won anyway.

01:42:06.000 And unfortunately, most of the time, before McGregor came, it's always the lighter weight classes.

01:42:11.000 Yeah.

01:42:11.000 Right.

01:42:12.000 And that's a shame, because those guys deserve it.

01:42:14.000 Is the roster too big, you think, for the UFC in that respect?

01:42:17.000 Because even as, like we say, we cover this, we hardcore, there's a lot of fighters, I'm like, whoa, why?

01:42:22.000 Okay, this guy's got to fill out the cards.

01:42:24.000 I'm just wondering, for a guy who covers it, does it, works for the company, do you think the roster is too big, or you're happy with...

01:42:31.000 The way it is now in terms of fights.

01:42:33.000 I don't make fights.

01:42:34.000 So if I said that, I would really have to do research before I say if the roster's too big.

01:42:38.000 But if they don't fight in this roster, the question then becomes, where do they fight?

01:42:46.000 Because they have to get fights somewhere. 0.96

01:42:48.000 And would it be better for some of these lighter, not lighter, but lighter inexperienced guys, like a Mickey Gall, for instance, who just right away now is fighting in the UFC, beat Sage Northcutt, so holy shit, now the kid's a star. 0.55

01:42:59.000 He beats up CM Punk.

01:43:01.000 He's great behind the microphone.

01:43:02.000 Great behind the microphone.

01:43:04.000 Smart.

01:43:04.000 Good looking kid.

01:43:05.000 But he's also only a couple fights into his career.

01:43:09.000 If you were his manager, and you cared about him a lot, and you were saying, look kid, you're really good, you got real potential, but...

01:43:17.000 You need to get some seasoning.

01:43:18.000 And you need to get some seasoning against commensurate talent.

01:43:21.000 You want to fight guys that offer a threat, but that you can beat.

01:43:25.000 And you want to build your way up to a guy like Damien Maia. 0.98

01:43:28.000 But if you fight Damien Maia today, you're probably going to get fucking smushed. 0.98

01:43:32.000 It's not good. 0.99

01:43:34.000 And you might get smushed in a way that might destroy your confidence for fucking years. 0.98

01:43:38.000 But then, I guess there's feeder leagues, right? 0.99

01:43:41.000 Access TV has done a good job, RFA, all these other groups.

01:43:44.000 I'm wondering the UFC, if they want to even invest in something like that.

01:43:49.000 Well, they made a show out of it now looking for a fight, so I don't think they will do that.

01:43:54.000 But I always thought that they should do an amateur division.

01:43:56.000 You know, like a UFC amateur division?

01:43:56.000 Or something, right?

01:43:58.000 Because he's got a great point.

01:43:59.000 Because you're right, Mickey Gall, I think, has potential to be a superstar.

01:44:02.000 But if you're already...

01:44:04.000 He already beat Sage Northcutt.

01:44:05.000 He already beat Sage Northcutt, right?

01:44:06.000 Yeah, so if he beats Sage Northcutt, who's going to fight next?

01:44:08.000 Maybe Barbarina? 1.00

01:44:11.000 If he fights and keeps winning, he's not too far out of a top 20 ranking, right?

01:44:16.000 And then all of a sudden you're in the wolves' den.

01:44:18.000 Maybe he's cool with that.

01:44:19.000 Maybe John Jones did it. 0.99

01:44:22.000 How many fucking people are John Jones? 0.99

01:44:25.000 No, you're right. 0.99

01:44:26.000 When you get that kind of talent, John Jones is a real special talent.

01:44:30.000 That's really...

01:44:31.000 It's undeniable.

01:44:32.000 That's what I always say.

01:44:33.000 You see that takedown that he hit on Dan Henderson in that pure grappling match?

01:44:36.000 Oh, and everybody on Cormier. 0.97

01:44:38.000 He's fucking sensational. 0.97

01:44:39.000 Yeah, he can do anything. 0.98

01:44:41.000 That's what I like.

01:44:41.000 He can submit you.

01:44:42.000 He can knock you out.

01:44:44.000 He really thinks about his fighting.

01:44:46.000 Yeah, he's better to be coordinated for a guy that size. 0.99

01:44:48.000 And under pressure, he's a fucking gem. 0.98

01:44:50.000 Under pressure, he just rides to occasion. 0.99

01:44:52.000 Oh, yeah, Belfort in Toronto, right?

01:44:55.000 He was big.

01:44:56.000 Oh, dude, his arm was hyper-extended.

01:44:58.000 Vitor caught him in a beautiful armbar, perfect armbar from the guard, had it fully locked out.

01:45:02.000 It looked like it was over.

01:45:03.000 It was over.

01:45:03.000 But didn't panic.

01:45:04.000 And John just wouldn't tap, let his elbow get fucked up, and then went on to submit Vitor. 0.97

01:45:09.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:45:10.000 It's crazy.

01:45:11.000 Yeah.

01:45:11.000 Well, you know, once you're a fighter and you slap on something and you think you got it, and you put all your effort in it, and then you lose it, it does a little bit to some fighters, too, their mental states.

01:45:21.000 They get depressed, and then when you...

01:45:25.000 Turn it up!

01:45:25.000 You know, that's the moment you want to start turning it up because then you destroy the fighter and then you can actually go for a submission.

01:45:30.000 So I think that's what happened there.

01:45:32.000 That was a unique fight too in that Jon Jones dropped Vitor with a front leg sidekick to the body.

01:45:37.000 I was like, that is a great technique for him because he's so long.

01:45:41.000 Yeah.

01:45:41.000 You know, when you're seeing the way Wonderboy uses it, and some other folks use it, and Sage Northcutt has a really good one as well.

01:45:47.000 But you think those oblique kicks, I have a feeling somebody's going to get hurt, and they're going to take them out.

01:45:52.000 You don't think so?

01:45:53.000 From the knees?

01:45:53.000 Yeah, because it looks so dangerous, and especially a guy like Jones again, because he's got so much power on top of it.

01:45:59.000 If by any chance the guy just walks backwards and his leg is stretched, and he gets hit at that Did Silva use him on the leg?

01:46:05.000 I thought it would involve Silva where I thought the same thing, like this is going to end in a serious knee injury.

01:46:13.000 He would do front leg sidekicks to the knees.

01:46:14.000 He would just hit you right above the knee and it just hyperextends your knee.

01:46:21.000 It's a weird thing because it's very effective.

01:46:23.000 So how come you're allowed to round kick the outside of the knee, which everybody does?

01:46:28.000 Why are you allowed to do that when you're not allowed to hyperextend?

01:46:30.000 I mean, if you're not there when it happens, you don't get hit.

01:46:33.000 You know what I mean?

01:46:35.000 It's one of those things.

01:46:35.000 It is a very effective technique.

01:46:37.000 Holly Holm uses it quite a bit.

01:46:40.000 She used it on Ronda quite a bit in that fight. 0.99

01:46:42.000 The low low kick, I call it.

01:46:44.000 The low low kick on the calf.

01:46:46.000 And who was it who broke his fibula?

01:46:50.000 What fight was that?

01:46:51.000 Pretty recent, like three months ago or something.

01:46:53.000 Somebody broke his fibula because he got kicked in the calf and they stopped the fight.

01:46:58.000 Now I'm thinking of it.

01:47:00.000 What's in the UFC? Hmm.

01:47:00.000 He couldn't walk anymore.

01:47:02.000 Other organization, huh?

01:47:04.000 Yeah, I mean, it definitely happens.

01:47:06.000 What about knees to the head of a grounded opponent, Joe?

01:47:08.000 Are you a fan?

01:47:09.000 Or do you think it should be loud?

01:47:12.000 This is what I think.

01:47:13.000 I mean, I think that if someone is shooting for a takedown, here's a question.

01:47:17.000 Say if a guy is in the process of a double leg and someone's knee touches the ground.

01:47:23.000 The guy's shooting for that double leg, the knee touches the ground, and as his knee touches the ground, the opponent is already launching into a knee, a counter-knee, which is the perfect technique for that position, right?

01:47:33.000 What happens there?

01:47:34.000 Should be left.

01:47:35.000 Is that legal?

01:47:36.000 It should be.

01:47:37.000 It should be.

01:47:37.000 If someone shoots a total power double on you, and as they're sliding in, their knee is hitting the ground, and you catch them with a knee and put them out.

01:47:45.000 Is that a knee to a grounded opponent?

01:47:47.000 I mean, how does that work?

01:47:47.000 Well, he slipped in.

01:47:48.000 I would say that's the same as I hit you, but you turn your head at the moment I hit you and I hit the back of your head. 0.92

01:47:53.000 It should be illegal.

01:47:54.000 And they have altered it though, right?

01:47:55.000 The guys who were gaming the system, remember when the guys, they just put the hand, they have changed that, right?

01:48:00.000 They've altered that. 1.00

01:48:00.000 Yeah, that was a stupid little... 1.00

01:48:01.000 But it's also, like, there was a controversial fight really recently with Olivares and Tim Means. 0.98

01:48:09.000 And Tim Means and Mark Ratner, I asked him when it was a fight, he's only on one point, that one point being one knee.

01:48:18.000 Like, his foot wasn't even on the ground.

01:48:19.000 Like, and his other foot was up.

01:48:21.000 So I'm like, is that legal?

01:48:23.000 It was real confusing to me.

01:48:24.000 And then Mark Ratner said it should be legal.

01:48:27.000 And I'm like, okay, well, it's one point.

01:48:28.000 Is it legal?

01:48:29.000 And then John McCarthy said no.

01:48:30.000 He said it's not a point.

01:48:32.000 He said that expression that everybody uses, three points, more than three points, like two hands.

01:48:37.000 Or two feet, rather, and a hand, it's illegal to hit the person when they're down.

01:48:42.000 But he says it's the bottom of your feet.

01:48:44.000 Anytime it's not the bottom of your feet, you're a grounded opponent.

01:48:47.000 So even if you have one knee on the ground and no feet, like you're just balanced on the knee moving towards, you're still a grounded opponent.

01:48:53.000 Wow.

01:48:54.000 Yeah, which is weird, right?

01:48:56.000 That's weird.

01:48:57.000 I'm not sure if I agree with that.

01:48:59.000 No, I don't either.

01:49:01.000 And knees to the opponent on the ground, I always...

01:49:04.000 Skyscraper knees.

01:49:05.000 I think it's better...

01:49:06.000 Than elbows.

01:49:08.000 And nowadays, lately, we see some knockouts with elbows, but there's a lot of cuts.

01:49:12.000 And you don't have to with the knee, your knee will knock you out.

01:49:15.000 So that's why I said it's an easy defense.

01:49:18.000 Once you know it's going to be coming there, it's a bigger thing.

01:49:20.000 You can just hold the thigh, I mean, but I prefer it over elbows.

01:49:24.000 Well...

01:49:25.000 Do you remember when Coleman used it in Pride?

01:49:27.000 From the north and south position?

01:49:29.000 Yeah, those two are just, I mean, from sky high, just right to the concussions.

01:49:36.000 I mean, it's one of a wrestler's best moves.

01:49:39.000 Because a wrestler, if you're trying to shoot on them and they sprawl and they're on top, they have those knees right there. 0.95

01:49:39.000 You're right. 0.95

01:49:46.000 Boom, boom.

01:49:47.000 It's a tremendous technique.

01:49:49.000 For wrestlers, headbutts, you remember Coleman?

01:49:51.000 That was him, all the way in the beginning.

01:49:53.000 Holding the arms and then just headbutting him.

01:49:55.000 He did it to Maurice.

01:49:56.000 The Maurice Smith-Mark Coleman fight was when headbutts were allowed.

01:50:00.000 People forget.

01:50:03.000 Headbutts were nuts.

01:50:05.000 But is it so nuts?

01:50:07.000 Why can't you headbutt? 0.94

01:50:08.000 Like, how come you can use your elbow but you can't headbutt?

01:50:11.000 Why can't you headbutt? 0.94

01:50:12.000 The art of nine limbs.

01:50:13.000 The art of nine limbs.

01:50:15.000 I mean, if you can cut someone with elbows, right?

01:50:18.000 You're slashing across their face with elbows. 0.76

01:50:20.000 Why can't you headbutt? 0.94

01:50:21.000 Is it a concussion thing?

01:50:23.000 I don't know, but it's up to you, right?

01:50:24.000 I mean, it seems like if we're talking about the art of actual fighting, we know that a headbutt is a real martial arts technique.

01:50:32.000 You know, I know why that is, and it was one of the reasons I would headbutt somebody if there was a lot of onions when I was fighting at the club, if I had to fight.

01:50:40.000 I almost never fought there, because I just talked my way out of it.

01:50:43.000 I would tell the people, hey, there's nothing going on.

01:50:45.000 But if I did, I used it on purpose, headbutts. 0.97

01:50:48.000 Because they look really insane.

01:50:50.000 And I would make sure that all the people who are watching, that they would understand that, you know, we can accept that kind of behavior there.

01:50:57.000 And a headbutt, that will freak people out, you know?

01:50:59.000 And I truly believe that it's for, you know, for the sport to make the sport more attractive, take the headbutts out.

01:51:05.000 Once a normal person watches a fight like Mark Coleman, start headbutting somebody into oblivion, you know, they're going to go, is this a sport?

01:51:13.000 You're right?

01:51:14.000 I mean, it looks...

01:51:15.000 It looks really bad.

01:51:16.000 It looks terrible, but so does soccer kicks.

01:51:18.000 I was gonna say, you know, so does ground and pound for that matter.

01:51:22.000 Well, a lot of boxing people had a real hard time with people being on the ground and then getting hammer-fisted in the head.

01:51:27.000 Big problem.

01:51:28.000 Roger Werther, remember?

01:51:29.000 At the one championship?

01:51:31.000 That was horrible.

01:51:32.000 That was scary.

01:51:33.000 I mean, I don't know why the referee didn't stop there.

01:51:34.000 Why he let him kick.

01:51:36.000 I mean, it was obvious.

01:51:38.000 He was in La La Land.

01:51:39.000 He was in La La Land and he got hit with a horrible soccer kick and his whole body went flying.

01:51:44.000 And he was just dead out cold.

01:51:46.000 Could have killed him.

01:51:47.000 Well, you know, Roger's a guy that should have been a superstar.

01:51:47.000 Yeah.

01:51:51.000 Oh, man.

01:51:52.000 Cover of Sports Illustrated.

01:51:53.000 But there is a curse!

01:51:54.000 You see?

01:51:55.000 Oh, yeah, the SI curse.

01:51:56.000 The Sports Illustrated curse.

01:51:57.000 He fell right into it.

01:51:58.000 He's on the cover.

01:51:59.000 Well, it's got that curse.

01:52:00.000 So many athletes.

01:52:02.000 Yeah, usually there was the whole thing of the Madden curse, too.

01:52:06.000 Oh, look it up.

01:52:07.000 Yeah, people were on covers and they all of a sudden lose the next time.

01:52:10.000 Well, that's also what they said about the UFC game cover, right?

01:52:14.000 Oh yeah, whatever gets on it.

01:52:14.000 Right, that's right.

01:52:16.000 It is weird, right?

01:52:19.000 That's crazy!

01:52:21.000 The Sports Illustrated cover jinx is an urban legend that states that individuals and teams who appear on the cover of Sports Illustrated magazine will subsequently be jinxed.

01:52:29.000 But does it say anything in terms of actual results?

01:52:33.000 Yeah, click it.

01:52:34.000 Let's see how many get caught.

01:52:35.000 Look, there's tons.

01:52:36.000 Oh Jesus Christ!

01:52:37.000 There's so many!

01:52:38.000 Oh my God!

01:52:40.000 The list is insane.

01:52:42.000 Folks, I couldn't even read this list. 1.00

01:52:44.000 This list is fucking insane. 0.98

01:52:45.000 It's like everybody who gets on that list. 0.99

01:52:47.000 Yeah, you don't want to be on it.

01:52:49.000 Thanks.

01:52:50.000 Did McGregor go on it?

01:52:51.000 I believe he did.

01:52:53.000 Wasn't it before the fight?

01:52:54.000 Before the Nick Diaz fight.

01:52:55.000 Yeah, Conor McGregor, March 5th, 2016. Holy shit. 0.99

01:52:59.000 There you go. 1.00

01:53:00.000 S.I. Jinx.

01:53:01.000 He was scheduled to fight Rafael Dos Anjos, and then Dos Anjos fell apart with a broken foot.

01:53:06.000 Dos Anjos is going up to me to welterweight.

01:53:09.000 That's interesting.

01:53:10.000 Very interesting.

01:53:12.000 I'd like to see how he feels good without cutting so much weight.

01:53:16.000 He's a big fella.

01:53:17.000 I think that's for everybody, right?

01:53:19.000 Everybody when they fight one up, they fight so much better.

01:53:22.000 But then, does everyone do that?

01:53:24.000 I think, yeah.

01:53:25.000 For a lot of reasons, you should fight closer to...

01:53:27.000 Do you think there's a solution?

01:53:29.000 Do you think there's a way that they can make guys weigh their natural weight?

01:53:32.000 Like, test them the same way they test for drugs?

01:53:35.000 Test them for hydration?

01:53:37.000 Like, show up.

01:53:37.000 Hey, Mauro, we're going to just put you on a scale today and find out what you actually weigh.

01:53:41.000 Mauro, you fight 155, you weigh 186. What the fuck's going on, dude? 0.98

01:53:44.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:53:45.000 You know, like, look, man, get in shape, get in shape, and tell us when you're ready and what you actually weigh.

01:53:50.000 And so then when you find out that the guy's in shape and you're actually, you go, you're shaped, you're ready, okay?

01:53:56.000 Okay, well, it says here you weigh 175. There you go.

01:53:59.000 Okay, now we're going to check your hydration levels.

01:54:01.000 Oh, well, you're dehydrated, though.

01:54:03.000 We're going to get you to a normal hydration level.

01:54:06.000 Now you're healthy.

01:54:07.000 You're 179. This is what you weigh.

01:54:09.000 You weigh 180. You're a 180-pound fighter.

01:54:11.000 And just decide whether or not you want to fight.

01:54:14.000 And if you do, this is what you fight at.

01:54:16.000 Or if you want to weigh less, you're going to have to lose some weight.

01:54:19.000 But you're going to have to prove that you actually weigh that.

01:54:23.000 Lose all the body fat.

01:54:24.000 Get yourself to a good position.

01:54:25.000 You know, okay, so what are you at now?

01:54:27.000 Well, I've got myself down to 170. Weigh him?

01:54:30.000 Okay, looks like you're actually 170. And look, check your hydration.

01:54:33.000 You're healthy.

01:54:34.000 Okay, so this is your real weight.

01:54:35.000 You fight 170. Perfect.

01:54:37.000 I mean, how many guys?

01:54:38.000 We would have to blow up all the weight classes.

01:54:40.000 And that's right.

01:54:40.000 Of course.

01:54:42.000 And that's unfortunate.

01:54:43.000 But for the...

01:54:45.000 For the greater good.

01:54:46.000 Yeah, for the greater good.

01:54:47.000 I like that.

01:54:48.000 I support it.

01:54:49.000 You said it already in the beginning.

01:54:50.000 They always blame other people, fighters.

01:54:52.000 You know, and if there's nobody to blame, they blame the fact that their opponent was cutting more weight so he was stronger in the fight.

01:54:59.000 That's why I lost.

01:55:00.000 No, you lost because you lost.

01:55:02.000 Right.

01:55:02.000 You didn't lose because you weighed five pounds extra.

01:55:05.000 Look at the old days, man.

01:55:06.000 Let's forget about this.

01:55:07.000 Frankie Edgar.

01:55:07.000 Frankie Edgar beat everybody when he was 155. He didn't cut a goddamn ounce.

01:55:12.000 No, he won. 0.99

01:55:12.000 And he was beating everybody. 0.99

01:55:13.000 But that's the problem, and they start focusing on it, at least because they can give it a reason, and then let's hope that the next weight class is going to do better.

01:55:21.000 We've already lost main events, we've lost shows, and we will lose lives.

01:55:25.000 And even Chris Justino, I mean...

01:55:29.000 What is her weight? 0.67

01:55:30.000 What is the weight class?

01:55:31.000 145 is the most healthiest for her.

01:55:34.000 I don't even think that's true.

01:55:35.000 Thank you.

01:55:36.000 I don't think so, boss.

01:55:37.000 I think she's bigger than that.

01:55:38.000 Yep, I agree with you.

01:55:39.000 If it's that much of a struggle where she's almost dying outside the lines to make 140, 145 is a brutal struggle, too.

01:55:46.000 I agree with you.

01:55:47.000 155 is a real weight class.

01:55:50.000 There you go.

01:55:51.000 Maybe it's not for her.

01:55:52.000 But you know, I'm hearing that she's even heavier than 175. I hear that she's way over 180. She should fight Gabby. 1.00

01:55:58.000 That's what she walks around on.

01:55:59.000 Gabby's 240. And they're friends.

01:56:03.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:56:04.000 I mean, I wish there were more weight classes for men and for women.

01:56:07.000 I wish there was a ton of weight classes, like in boxing.

01:56:10.000 I think the one thing that boxing has that people don't like is that they have so many champions because they have too many weight classes.

01:56:17.000 But that's how you make things fair.

01:56:19.000 You're right.

01:56:20.000 You can't have a 185 and then a 205. That jump is huge.

01:56:24.000 20 stakes.

01:56:27.000 20 pounds.

01:56:28.000 Take 21 ounce or a 16 ounce t-bone stakes and stack them up and imagine someone has that advantage over you.

01:56:34.000 All that force power.

01:56:35.000 Well, if it's in his belly, it's okay. 0.85

01:56:39.000 235 weight class.

01:56:40.000 We need that.

01:56:40.000 I think you're right.

01:56:41.000 Or 225, right?

01:56:42.000 Maybe a 225, maybe a 245, and then unlimited.

01:56:46.000 You know, who knows?

01:56:47.000 But I think that having heavyweight where there's a weight limit, like you can't weigh more than 265, that seems crazy.

01:56:52.000 Yeah, because they're 180 on the day of the fight.

01:56:59.000 And then you're struggling.

01:57:01.000 You can't go to 205, so you're like 220, and you have a really hard cut, and then you face a guy who's 285. Although the early morning thing, I guess, has been successful, right?

01:57:11.000 No.

01:57:12.000 No, it's been unsuccessful.

01:57:14.000 Radically unsuccessful.

01:57:15.000 There's been 17 different people missing weight since then.

01:57:19.000 Oh, really?

01:57:20.000 Versus like one or two in the same time period.

01:57:23.000 So then what's this?

01:57:24.000 Why is that then?

01:57:25.000 Just because they want to get the edge, the safety?

01:57:27.000 It gives people more time to rehydrate themselves, but the problem is it gives them less time to lose the weight.

01:57:32.000 So if you're starting off early in the morning, like if your weigh-ins are at 4 o'clock and you know you're not going to eat all day, you're going to lose weight all throughout the day.

01:57:39.000 But if your weigh-ins are at 8 o'clock in the morning, when are you getting up that you're going to lose all that weight?

01:57:44.000 You might not lose enough weight.

01:57:46.000 So people are miscalculating.

01:57:49.000 There's definitely an issue with people cutting too much weight.

01:57:53.000 There's definitely an issue with people doing it unhealthy.

01:57:55.000 Shouldn't they be punished or penalized even more, though?

01:57:58.000 Like, I just recently heard Calvin Gastelum...

01:58:00.000 Ray Borg lost 30% of his purse.

01:58:01.000 Well, I know, and that's what...

01:58:02.000 Okay, that's fine.

01:58:04.000 But even Calvin Gastelum, when they admit, yeah, I haven't really been looking after my diet.

01:58:08.000 You're a professional athlete signed to the biggest organization in the world.

01:58:13.000 Shouldn't that be part of the contract that...

01:58:15.000 If you're fighting for us, you have to maintain.

01:58:18.000 You almost have those.

01:58:19.000 Instead of even a random drug test, random...

01:58:22.000 Random weight test! 0.91

01:58:23.000 Well, obviously they made Kelvin go up to 185 in his next fight. 0.94

01:58:26.000 And what's crazy is he looked fucking insane against Tim Kennedy. 0.97

01:58:29.000 He looked insane. 0.99

01:58:30.000 And Tim Kennedy blew his entire wad trying to take him down and beat him up in the early of the first round.

01:58:36.000 I mean, he showed his size advantage, his strength advantage.

01:58:39.000 He's a massive powerhouse when it comes to his ground and power and his jiu-jitsu.

01:58:45.000 But Kelvin just stayed the course.

01:58:47.000 Gave good defense, and then eventually when he got on his feet, man, way too swift on his feet.

01:58:51.000 How many times has he missed?

01:58:52.000 Three?

01:58:53.000 He's missed a bunch of times.

01:58:54.000 He missed against Tyron Woodley, and Tyron beat him, and Tyron, as a gentleman, decided not to even take his money.

01:59:00.000 I remember that. 0.86

01:59:00.000 Which is a very fucking ethical and moral move by the champ, now the current champ. 0.86

01:59:06.000 So he lost that, and there was more than one fight in the past before that. 0.91

01:59:11.000 When do you say, okay, again, not to begrudge him a career, because he's a great fighter.

01:59:16.000 Like you say, he's very good at 185, so let's hope he stays.

01:59:18.000 But if he misses his way to 185, then...

01:59:20.000 You should say a year you can't fight for a year.

01:59:22.000 Don't you let him go?

01:59:23.000 You know, put the fear in them, and then they're really going to do it.

01:59:26.000 I think Calvin should fight at 85. I mean, I think he could win at 70. I think he can make 70, but he doesn't always make 70. No, you're right, 185. Yeah, I mean, unless he wants to lose a ton of body fat and then try fighting at 170. You know, really clean his diet up, really go hard on the cardio.

01:59:42.000 What happened to Johnny Hendricks?

01:59:44.000 Johnny Hendricks does not seem like the same person.

01:59:46.000 No.

01:59:46.000 Was it because of Thompson wrecking him the way he did?

01:59:50.000 It could be a lot of things.

01:59:50.000 But I agree, because I heard you say as well, even in the broadcast, he did not look physically the same.

01:59:54.000 No, he doesn't look like he works as hard.

01:59:56.000 It doesn't look like he is as motivated.

01:59:58.000 He doesn't look as hungry.

01:59:59.000 His vaunted knockout power is gone.

02:00:02.000 Gone.

02:00:03.000 It's weird.

02:00:04.000 It's weird.

02:00:05.000 Yeah, I wanted him, and I said a long time ago, if I was his coach, I would just tie his left hand to his body, and I put him, after every workout, you go three or four rounds on the back, you know, just using your right hand.

02:00:16.000 Can you imagine if you developed a right hand on top of that?

02:00:19.000 I mean, because 90% was left.

02:00:21.000 You know, you would...

02:00:23.000 That, you know, now you open a whole new door, you know?

02:00:25.000 You know, and it's unfair to question someone whether or not they tested positive for anything, or whether they took anything if they haven't tested positive.

02:00:33.000 So he never tested positive for anything, so you can't look at it.

02:00:36.000 I don't think he did, did he?

02:00:37.000 No.

02:00:37.000 Maybe a diuretic or something?

02:00:39.000 Maybe.

02:00:40.000 Maybe.

02:00:40.000 I have no clue.

02:00:41.000 Find out if Johnny Hendricks ever tested positive or something.

02:00:43.000 I don't think he did.

02:00:44.000 So, you know, there's a lot of people throwing accusations about him, and George St. Pierre was.

02:00:47.000 George St. Pierre as well.

02:00:48.000 But you know what it could also be, like, one of the things he said about his last fight is that he worked out four times a week.

02:00:54.000 A week.

02:00:54.000 He's like, one time, four times a week.

02:00:54.000 Yeah, not enough.

02:00:56.000 He's like, he just was not focused on that fight.

02:00:59.000 If that's the case, that's why he looks like that.

02:01:02.000 It has nothing to do with USADA or anything else.

02:01:04.000 He just doesn't have the hunger anymore.

02:01:05.000 That's it, and that's where you put yourself at great risk.

02:01:08.000 But also mentally going into the fight, if you know that another guy trained ten times a week and you trained four, what are you going to do with four?

02:01:16.000 It's just weird that his power went away.

02:01:17.000 I mean, he used to make guys fly.

02:01:19.000 Crumble.

02:01:20.000 He used to, when he hit John Fitch, he went flying.

02:01:23.000 Martin Kampmann, flying.

02:01:24.000 He went flying.

02:01:25.000 It was like he had magic in his hands.

02:01:27.000 And then all of a sudden it stopped.

02:01:28.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:01:29.000 It's like, what the fuck? 0.99

02:01:30.000 That never has to be a mental thing then against the Wonder Boy. 1.00

02:01:34.000 Thompson really just ruined him. 0.99

02:01:36.000 Yeah, he fucked him up. 0.99

02:01:38.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:01:38.000 He fucked him up. 1.00

02:01:39.000 And he fucked him up with, like, using the front leg sidekick and then the front leg round kiss. 0.99

02:01:43.000 He hit a bat, one to the body, and then Johnny, like, nods his head like, you got me, and then slap the same one right up to the face. 0.99

02:01:51.000 That's the thing with Wonder Boy.

02:01:52.000 He mixes it.

02:01:53.000 Oh, yeah.

02:01:54.000 Perfectly.

02:01:54.000 And then it's suddenly a hook kick and a question mark kick.

02:01:56.000 Every time it's a different kick.

02:01:57.000 Yeah.

02:01:58.000 And you don't know what's going to come. 0.99

02:01:59.000 Well, when Ellenberger talks shit about him, like all the spinning kicks, it's a waste of energy. 0.99

02:02:03.000 He's like, oh, for real? 1.00

02:02:04.000 Check this shit out. 1.00

02:02:05.000 I mean, you don't think it's a coincidence that he wheel kicked Ellenberger in the head twice? 1.00

02:02:09.000 Like, oh, here's your waste of time, dude.

02:02:09.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:02:11.000 Right.

02:02:11.000 Yeah.

02:02:12.000 Yeah, it's not a waste. 0.95

02:02:13.000 I'm fucking super good at this. 0.96

02:02:15.000 McGregor, too, right? 0.98

02:02:16.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:02:17.000 It's working.

02:02:18.000 And Conor McGregor, too, right?

02:02:19.000 He's using a lot more.

02:02:20.000 Oh, yeah.

02:02:20.000 He's very...

02:02:21.000 Yeah, but the kicks like him, they're not powerful kicks.

02:02:23.000 They're more to measure, you know, and to hold the opponent at bay, and then suddenly his hands.

02:02:29.000 I'm in love with his hands. 1.00

02:02:31.000 His left hand is a fucking missile. 1.00

02:02:34.000 He's the guy, man. 1.00

02:02:35.000 He's one of my favorite guys to watch.

02:02:37.000 Also, outside of fighting.

02:02:39.000 Yeah, he's a character.

02:02:40.000 The way he talks, he never has the same...

02:02:42.000 Like with interviews, when people ask you about your life, how it started, well, it's the same story over and over again.

02:02:48.000 He can make it every time different.

02:02:50.000 He's one of those guys that constantly changes.

02:02:53.000 Smart businessman.

02:02:55.000 Oh, the smartest. 1.00

02:02:57.000 He's the best shit talker in the history of combat sports. 0.99

02:03:00.000 Before that, it was like Chael Sonnen and Muhammad Ali, and now it's Conor McGregor. 1.00

02:03:04.000 I mean, he just knows how to fucking say it. 0.97

02:03:07.000 Like when Jeremy Stephens starts talking and he goes... 1.00

02:03:10.000 Who the fuck is that guy? 1.00

02:03:11.000 Who the fuck is that guy? 1.00

02:03:12.000 Just destroyed him with one sentence. 1.00

02:03:15.000 That's awesome, man. 1.00

02:03:15.000 I mean, he finds the perfect shit to say. 1.00

02:03:18.000 And the way he looked back for him? 0.99

02:03:20.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:03:20.000 Like, who the fuck? 1.00

02:03:22.000 It's hilarious. 1.00

02:03:24.000 I mean, when he went in there and annihilated Eddie Alvarez like that, you just gotta go, what in the fuck, man? 0.99

02:03:31.000 He's in that style of sliding out and sliding in. 0.99

02:03:31.000 Yep. 0.99

02:03:35.000 It's a very unusual, almost a karate-based style.

02:03:38.000 Yep.

02:03:39.000 With, like, sitting down on vicious punches on the end of it, you know?

02:03:43.000 But, you know, his stance, and because he's a southpaw, but I thought, you know, with Aldo, if I was Aldo's coach a year ago already, I would have said, we're going to trade southpaw.

02:03:53.000 Because there's no way he can block those low kicks.

02:03:56.000 If left low kicks come, there's no He can block him.

02:03:58.000 Because his stance is too wide and his knees are pointing inside.

02:04:01.000 He can't block him.

02:04:02.000 100%.

02:04:03.000 It changes the whole game.

02:04:04.000 Changes the whole game. 0.96

02:04:06.000 And his left low kick, by the way, Aldo could kick the fuck out of you with either leg. 0.99

02:04:11.000 His low kicks are horrific. 0.99

02:04:13.000 Horrific.

02:04:14.000 Yeah, he always made me think of Rommel Deckers.

02:04:18.000 You know, that explosive.

02:04:18.000 Yeah.

02:04:20.000 What they call a duchy?

02:04:20.000 Oh, man.

02:04:22.000 Left to the body and then right leg kick behind it. 0.94

02:04:24.000 I mean, he landed that on Chad Mendes.

02:04:27.000 I was like, whoo!

02:04:28.000 Yeah, yeah, it's fun stuff.

02:04:29.000 The way he throws it, man.

02:04:30.000 I think Aldo and Max Holloway is a very interesting fight.

02:04:34.000 That fight has to happen.

02:04:35.000 Yes, it has to happen.

02:04:35.000 I love Max Holloway.

02:04:36.000 It has to happen. 0.97

02:04:37.000 I keep hearing all this crazy shit like Aldo might go up and fight Habib for the interim title, and I'm like, goddammit, you've got to have Max Holloway fight Aldo. 0.97

02:04:45.000 Well, there we go again, right? 0.97

02:04:47.000 The money weight fights.

02:04:49.000 Everyone already, even Carbent, I guess, talked about.

02:04:52.000 I think that's a money fight.

02:04:53.000 Instead of staying in their way, instead of Defending the title they own.

02:04:58.000 Well, it's obviously not as big a fight as him fighting Nurmagomedov in Russia, though.

02:05:02.000 Right.

02:05:02.000 Oh, huge.

02:05:03.000 And especially if they fight for a 55-pound title. 0.98

02:05:06.000 If Nurmagomedov fights in Russia, they might have to fucking build a new soccer stadium. 0.97

02:05:10.000 I don't think people understand. 0.98

02:05:10.000 Yeah, he's huge. 0.98

02:05:12.000 Anytime I post something on Instagram, I get 150 fucking Russian dudes who write Habib time, and then they just post Habib time in the credits. 0.99

02:05:20.000 Nice. 0.96

02:05:20.000 My fucking credits are overrun with people that say, or not credits, comments, rather, are overrun with people who say, Habib time, Habib time. 0.96

02:05:27.000 Fucking... 0.99

02:05:28.000 Just for safety, when they're building that thing, make it underground tunnel for when he loses. 1.00

02:05:32.000 Oh, yeah.

02:05:32.000 Jesus Christ.

02:05:33.000 You could escape because straight to the airport.

02:05:36.000 Like, if he fights Conor, you know, what's interesting about the Conor fight, man, look, Habib time, Habib time.

02:05:36.000 Right.

02:05:41.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

02:05:41.000 See?

02:05:42.000 He's not fucking around. 0.99

02:05:43.000 That's all true. 0.99

02:05:44.000 But, like, if he fights Conor, when Michael Johnson cracked him and rocked him, I went, oh, boy.

02:05:51.000 And then he got angry.

02:05:51.000 Yeah, he got angry.

02:05:52.000 He did get angry, and he beat the fuck out of him. 0.65

02:05:54.000 But the point is, he got hurt. 0.94

02:05:56.000 He got hurt. 0.99

02:05:56.000 And if Conor catches you like that, you might be fucking Dunsville. 0.99

02:06:00.000 He might drop some hammers on you, and that might be the end of you. 0.99

02:06:03.000 And conversely, the same thing, right?

02:06:05.000 You know, we've seen Conor as well.

02:06:07.000 At times, it's just the...

02:06:09.000 Well, better in Habib's defense, we saw Conor get rocked against Nate, and he wound up losing that fight shortly thereafter.

02:06:16.000 Habib got rocked against Michael Johnson, came back strong, and dominated him.

02:06:21.000 So it was the only time, I mean, when you see a guy who's as dominant as Habib, you start looking for weaknesses in his armor.

02:06:26.000 It's the only time we've seen any weakness at all.

02:06:28.000 Yeah, but McGregor in his defense, he was getting tired already there when he got hit.

02:06:32.000 So that combined.

02:06:34.000 So Habib doesn't get tired.

02:06:36.000 Did you see that funny video they had with the narrating guy who's constantly dropping F-bombs left and right?

02:06:41.000 The story about Habib and how he's training and where he comes from.

02:06:44.000 When he was six years old, he was already wrestling with freaking beers.

02:06:49.000 It's really funny.

02:06:50.000 It's on here right now somewhere.

02:06:52.000 Do you know what the name of the...

02:06:53.000 Just go Habib promo. 0.95

02:06:58.000 Just put that on.

02:06:59.000 Is it like the most interesting man in the world type of spoof?

02:06:59.000 Let's see what happens.

02:07:02.000 It's lately made, so it will pop up on top, I guess.

02:07:05.000 Okay.

02:07:06.000 It's really funny.

02:07:07.000 Nice.

02:07:07.000 And you see him wrestling a bear when he was like six years old, and then he starts talking about his father who was already a really good judo guy.

02:07:14.000 But that's the other thing.

02:07:15.000 MMA and combat sports, the memes, the use of social media.

02:07:19.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:07:20.000 It's so cool, man.

02:07:21.000 So well. 0.99

02:07:22.000 Unless you're Ronda Rousey after that fucking Nunes fight. 1.00

02:07:25.000 Woo! 0.99

02:07:26.000 So what?

02:07:27.000 Is she coming back? 1.00

02:07:28.000 So many fucking people with those mean memes. 1.00

02:07:31.000 What do you think? 1.00

02:07:33.000 She's coming back? 0.88

02:07:33.000 No, I don't think she is. 0.88

02:07:35.000 I mean, I don't think...

02:07:36.000 If she does, she should come back In a calculated manner.

02:07:42.000 Like, don't just rush in and fight for the title like she did. 0.99

02:07:46.000 I think that's crazy.

02:07:47.000 Taking a year off, getting head kicked, knocked out, you know, where's your head out?

02:07:51.000 And was she 100% committed to this as far as, like, training for the entire time off?

02:07:57.000 Or did she just get in really good shape over the last few months and had she been training at all before then?

02:08:01.000 I mean, you'd have to ask her and answer all those questions, but if she doesn't want to be fighting, She shouldn't be fighting. 0.51

02:08:08.000 You know, but, you know, Emmert was shouting from the beginning, head movement, head movement.

02:08:11.000 So I assume they worked on head movement.

02:08:13.000 I just think the pressure and the way she comes and the angry face and all that shuts her down. 0.82

02:08:18.000 And, you know, it's too much pressure.

02:08:20.000 A whole Hollywood career writes on it.

02:08:22.000 I mean, that's not going to happen now, right?

02:08:23.000 Right.

02:08:24.000 I mean, because...

02:08:24.000 But, buddy, there was a...

02:08:25.000 You said, too, we talked about it.

02:08:27.000 No footwork, no defense, no head, but there was nothing.

02:08:30.000 But that's what nerves can do to you.

02:08:32.000 I'd like to see a Ronda with a smile on her face go to the ring. 1.00

02:08:35.000 Being relaxed and calm.

02:08:37.000 Send her away. 1.00

02:08:38.000 Go to a Dwayne Ludwig for a year and have some smokers.

02:08:41.000 Because you can still legally do that.

02:08:43.000 In other clubs, just striking.

02:08:45.000 You know, to just get in that moment and to see where you're at.

02:08:48.000 I think in training, this is the problem that everybody has.

02:08:51.000 You know, in training you always do good.

02:08:53.000 A lot of guys do good.

02:08:54.000 But you know, as well as I do, these gym guys are really good in training.

02:08:57.000 They can't do it under pressure.

02:08:59.000 If she's been boxing and working on her striking and she's been hitting people left and right, then they got some good people coming in.

02:09:03.000 I heard that she works out even with ex-boxing champions or current boxing champions and doing well against her. 0.65

02:09:09.000 But then again, you know, that's a nice, safe environment. 0.98

02:09:14.000 Bringing it under pressure with all the crap she had on her shoulders. 0.99

02:09:18.000 There's also, Amanda Nunez is a very, very dangerous puncher. 1.00

02:09:24.000 Sodden strike force, man, right away. 0.99

02:09:27.000 Her kicks, her punches, she kicks and punches so fucking hard. 1.00

02:09:30.000 And she has long arms, man. 0.99

02:09:32.000 And she puts you on the end of these long punches. 0.98

02:09:35.000 And she dinged Ronda very early in the fight. 1.00

02:09:37.000 You could tell she was rocked.

02:09:38.000 She was right away back into the home fight. 1.00

02:09:40.000 That's what I think happened there.

02:09:41.000 And Nunes also leans all the way over, so it's hard to take her down. 0.99

02:09:45.000 And Ronda should also, and maybe she's doing it, I'm just saying what I don't see, maybe start wrestling as well. 0.51

02:09:51.000 Because a girl like that with so much talent, she'll pick that up so fast, but if she suddenly shoots Well, she went for the clinch, but she'd already been rocked, so I think that, because remember, she shucked her off quite easily.

02:10:03.000 Her clinch is always upper body clinch, and she always reaches in with the left arm. 1.00

02:10:06.000 It's like this, you know, Greg Jackson and I talked about it after the Holly Holm fight, that they had seen every single one of her fights.

02:10:11.000 She comes at you, she's got that left arm extended, tries to get a hold of the girls with the left arm, hip tosses them, gets them on the ground, arm bars them, and they just were so prepared for that. 1.00

02:10:20.000 But isn't, I was going to say, interesting that Holm, She came from boxing to MMA, just trained for a Ronda Rousey fight.

02:10:27.000 Cody Garbrandt, remember?

02:10:27.000 Well, she was a kickboxing champion too.

02:10:29.000 Well, kickboxing and boxing champion, but I'm saying in terms of her MMA prep, the goal was Ronda Rousey, right? 0.87

02:10:34.000 And now with Cody Garbrandt, he talked about in high school, Dominic Cruz, and you think, you wonder, well, the laser focus, right?

02:10:40.000 The television, obviously you have to work on everything, but if that's your target and you see what he did to Cruz, it's crazy.

02:10:46.000 Well, there's a lot of fighters like that that attract greatness.

02:10:49.000 Like, I think Anderson Silva attracted greatness, and I think one of the reasons why Weidman became as great as he was, is he knew that Anderson Silva was at the top of the mountain.

02:10:57.000 Like, you see that assassin, you know, and Weidman caught him, like, right at the right time, and, you know, knocked him out, and then the broken leg in the second fight, and I think...

02:11:07.000 When you have a dominant champion like Anderson was for so many years, all those young kids coming up, that's who they aspire to, and it raises the bar.

02:11:15.000 I'm really curious to see what the flyweights look like in a few years, because of how good Mighty Mouse is, because his bar, he's raised it so high.

02:11:22.000 I love everybody else.

02:11:23.000 Yeah.

02:11:24.000 You know, Anastasia Silva getting too comfortable, planting two feet next to each other, having no forward, backward side, lateral movement whatsoever.

02:11:32.000 You can only lean as much backwards, right, for that left hook what he received from Weidman. 0.99

02:11:37.000 Well, you know what he fucked up? 0.99

02:11:38.000 Showmanship. 0.98

02:11:38.000 Weidman had a very clever move that a lot of people missed. 0.98

02:11:41.000 And what he did was he threw a right hand and then behind the right hand he threw a back fist.

02:11:46.000 So there was a punch coming from the left and then he moved towards it and another punch coming towards the left because it was a left hook.

02:11:53.000 So Anderson is doing his bobbing and weaving stuff, but when a punch comes at him and then a back fist, he's got to go that way.

02:11:59.000 So then he's got to go that way.

02:12:01.000 So when he went back right, that's when Chris Wyman cracked him with that long left.

02:12:05.000 That's the same punch that he used to knock out Uriah Hall.

02:12:08.000 He throws this long, straight-armed hook, and it's very deceiving how much distance he can cover with it.

02:12:14.000 You know, a lot of distance, plus it says straight punches are better as well, I always say.

02:12:19.000 That's why I always like to use close lines.

02:12:22.000 I mean, you have more reach.

02:12:23.000 If you connect with the left hook, you're way too close.

02:12:25.000 If the person doesn't move, you're way too close for a straight punch.

02:12:28.000 But if you make it a palm strike, Yeah.

02:12:31.000 Now we have some space that we can cover.

02:12:32.000 What did you think of Yoel Romero knocking out Weidman?

02:12:35.000 Wasn't that insane?

02:12:36.000 Why did Weidman even want to go for that?

02:12:39.000 I mean, he said the whole training camp, he said, I don't...

02:12:42.000 And afterwards he said, I have no clue why I did it because we knew we should not do that.

02:12:46.000 And as soon as he lowered himself, it was...

02:12:48.000 Yeah, it just collided there.

02:12:50.000 It was just a perfect knee.

02:12:51.000 Because he was doing freaking awesome.

02:12:53.000 He did exactly what I said in the game plan, you know, go, go, go.

02:12:56.000 It doesn't matter if you keep him down, take him down.

02:12:57.000 Get all those muscles working.

02:12:59.000 You know, get him tired, get him tired.

02:13:00.000 And it was working for him.

02:13:02.000 Until Yoel decided to wrestle with him.

02:13:05.000 And then he was throwing Weidman around that second round.

02:13:07.000 That's when you realize how strong...

02:13:09.000 How long a wrestler he is.

02:13:11.000 How good his wrestling is. 0.99

02:13:12.000 It's fucking insane. 0.98

02:13:14.000 The wrestling of the high level Olympic caliber and yet power. 1.00

02:13:19.000 Those are dangerous dudes.

02:13:20.000 He's the freak of all freaks. 1.00

02:13:23.000 He stands next to all of them and just looks like, what in the fuck did they feed you in Cuba? 1.00

02:13:28.000 But the same thing with him. 0.98

02:13:30.000 Can you imagine if he starts focusing on the right side a little bit more?

02:13:34.000 What a super freak this guy is going to be.

02:13:36.000 Because all his attacks are coming.

02:13:38.000 It's a left kick, left knee, left straight.

02:13:40.000 Pretty much.

02:13:40.000 The only way time when he uses a right low kick is to set up a straight punch or a kick or whatever.

02:13:45.000 And he doesn't throw with power.

02:13:46.000 You should counter that.

02:13:47.000 That right kick that he throws outside leg or inside leg, whatever stance you are.

02:13:51.000 But you should counter that instantly because otherwise the big hand is going to come.

02:13:54.000 But if he starts developing a right and a right kick, just...

02:13:58.000 Two things.

02:13:59.000 A right knee, a right hook. 0.94

02:14:00.000 Whatever, you know.

02:14:02.000 Is he too muscular?

02:14:03.000 And I know it's lame.

02:14:04.000 Well, that's what I'm saying.

02:14:05.000 But it's like, you look at a guy like that, because you say physical specimen, man.

02:14:10.000 Just so incredibly above and beyond, but yet...

02:14:14.000 Okay, it's working for him.

02:14:15.000 Well, he's undefeated.

02:14:16.000 So it's definitely not a problem.

02:14:19.000 He just has to manage it.

02:14:20.000 In a lot of ways, the same way Tyron Woodley uses his power.

02:14:24.000 He's obviously much more muscular and much stronger than most guys in that division.

02:14:29.000 And he showed in the Wonderboy fight that Woodley knows how to manage it now.

02:14:32.000 He went a full five rounds, and what's really important is that he stunned Wonderboy in the fourth.

02:14:38.000 So they're in the championship rounds, he rocked him and hurt him bad, and had him in deep, deep trouble.

02:14:43.000 So I feel like there's so many benefits to being as powerful as Yoel Romero is.

02:14:48.000 There's definitely a downside.

02:14:50.000 That downside is if a guy like Weidman didn't shoot for that and, you know, was constantly wearing on him, constantly grinding on him, and had him in a bit of trouble like Tim Kennedy had him in his second round, then, you know, we'll see what happens.

02:15:03.000 But it hasn't happened yet.

02:15:04.000 It hasn't happened yet.

02:15:05.000 I mean, even in the Kennedy fight, he definitely cheated, right?

02:15:08.000 He definitely sat on a stool too long.

02:15:10.000 But he recouped fast, too.

02:15:11.000 And he was tired, but he still had knockout power.

02:15:15.000 But he still recovered. 1.00

02:15:16.000 He still came back to fuck Kennedy up. 0.99

02:15:18.000 And it was like, Jesus Christ. 1.00

02:15:20.000 He's such a monster.

02:15:21.000 He's so much better of an athlete than almost anybody else in the division.

02:15:26.000 When he throws guys around, they just go sailing.

02:15:30.000 Well, he grabs ahold of you.

02:15:32.000 Speaking of guys who I've always been impressed with, and a guy who, I mean, obviously the jiu-jitsu.

02:15:38.000 Yeah, but the striking, to me, yeah.

02:15:41.000 And he recovered in that fight, too, because Yoel fucked him up, too. 0.89

02:15:44.000 Yoel hit him with that spinning back fist and had him all hurt. 0.94

02:15:48.000 Yeah, Zachary came back from that fight and won.

02:15:51.000 Good thoroughbreds, man.

02:15:52.000 A lot of great fights still to be made.

02:15:55.000 And what happened?

02:15:55.000 No, Yoel Romero won.

02:15:56.000 He won the decision, but the decision was overturned because of the drugs.

02:16:01.000 Yeah, he had some sort of peptide that they found in the supplement that he was taking, so they only gave him like a nine-month suspension.

02:16:09.000 It was the same one as Joe's took, if I understand that.

02:16:11.000 That's why that was, to me, that was kind of weird because he is managed by the same guy.

02:16:16.000 No, not the same one that Jones took.

02:16:16.000 No, definitely not.

02:16:17.000 Oh, okay.

02:16:18.000 I thought that.

02:16:18.000 No, no, no.

02:16:19.000 He had, like, some growth hormone thing inside of it, whereas Jones had clomiphene.

02:16:25.000 Clomiphene is an estrogen suppressor that people use to kickstart their testosterone production after a steroid cycle.

02:16:33.000 It's an estrogen, rather, suppressor.

02:16:36.000 But Romero was the first one who brought, actually, the product, and he says, this is what I took, and he looked into it.

02:16:41.000 And, you know, that's what I never...

02:16:42.000 I always said that.

02:16:44.000 All the fighters say, but nobody...

02:16:45.000 If I would be the guy, I would say, this is what I took.

02:16:47.000 Please test this.

02:16:48.000 And he did that.

02:16:48.000 But why did they take it?

02:16:49.000 Are you a proponent?

02:16:50.000 A lot of people say, what do supplements actually do for the athlete if this is what's been happening with the tainted supplements?

02:16:57.000 Well, it's just where you get your supplements from.

02:16:59.000 The real issue with supplements is some of them definitely work.

02:17:03.000 I mean, how much should you be allowed to enhance your body with nutritional supplements?

02:17:08.000 Because there's a lot of supplements that work.

02:17:10.000 Creatine works.

02:17:11.000 There's a lot of stuff that works.

02:17:12.000 So you have to figure out, okay, well, how much can it work?

02:17:16.000 It obviously can't work like androstenedione or all those hormone precursors that they've all banned.

02:17:21.000 Okay, well, it can't work that good.

02:17:23.000 Can it work as good as this?

02:17:24.000 And there's all these different standards.

02:17:27.000 I mean, there's certain protocols that people follow when it comes to vitamin replacements, and they do IV vitamin drips, and Extreme concentration on their nutrition and they have results like those results they they tend to show that there are benefits in Supplementation and there's definitely benefits in clean diet and making sure that your nutritional balances It's like at what level should it be illegal? 0.86

02:17:54.000 I mean you can't how you father fuck are you getting so much b12 out of nature?

02:17:58.000 You have to take it in a pill and it gives you energy. 1.00

02:18:01.000 Well, what the fuck is that? 0.99

02:18:02.000 You know, and you could take some caffeine. 0.99

02:18:04.000 Like, Chael Sonner used to take caffeine pills to make sure that he got the exact amount of caffeine, because he's like, you don't know, because you get a Starbucks, you might get a venti Starbucks, and they might have fucking packed it in tight and chewed the shit out of it.

02:18:16.000 You know, every now and then you get a cup of coffee, and you're like, whoa, this is some strong coffee.

02:18:20.000 So you might actually test over.

02:18:22.000 So in order to make sure that Chael was in the lines, he would take pills.

02:18:27.000 Caffeine is illegal.

02:18:28.000 It's on the list.

02:18:29.000 It's legal.

02:18:30.000 Illegal, that's what I would say.

02:18:32.000 But if you get to a certain number, it's illegal.

02:18:34.000 If you get past a certain amount of milligrams in your system, I don't know how they measure that.

02:18:39.000 That's the other thing.

02:18:39.000 The testosterone, the epitestosterone, I've talked to medical professionals and everyone's saying, men, you produce supposed to be around one to one.

02:18:47.000 That's all...

02:18:48.000 Yeah, unless you're some weird freak, you might be like one to two.

02:18:51.000 Okay, so four to one, or six to one.

02:18:55.000 How does that...

02:18:55.000 You know, that's always puzzled me as well.

02:18:59.000 But that's what I mean, you know.

02:19:00.000 So why...

02:19:01.000 And for injury recovery, Joe, and I know a lot of people, fighters, that's what they say.

02:19:06.000 Well, geez, I had a mortgage.

02:19:07.000 I have to fight.

02:19:08.000 I've got to support the family.

02:19:09.000 Is there a way to monitor that where even the banned steroid thing where you can allow a person to at least make a living without making it...

02:19:18.000 An enhancement.

02:19:19.000 Well, it's going to be an enhancement.

02:19:21.000 That's the problem.

02:19:22.000 Right away.

02:19:22.000 Not only is it going to be an enhancement, but if you take steroids while you're, like say if you have a knee surgery and then you take steroids and you're lifting weights the entire time, you're going to keep some of those gains.

02:19:32.000 You're going to keep a certain percentage of it.

02:19:34.000 But on the flip side, your endocrine system is going to be fucked up and it's going to take you a while to get back to normal testosterone production if you do wind up testing and you do go back on USADA after the injury.

02:19:44.000 So there's an argument that said that you're taking a risk, you do recover quicker, but it might not be better for your overall hormone system.

02:19:52.000 You know, I remember I was talking about it, we did it on the podcast, I don't have it memorized, but there was a test with testosterone, what they did in the Olympics, pre-steroids and after steroids, and they start really testing everybody.

02:20:06.000 It's called the biological passport.

02:20:07.000 And they say that it actually did not help that more people who didn't use had better results than the people who were using.

02:20:16.000 And same thing as me.

02:20:18.000 I got that face, which you have now, too.

02:20:20.000 But, you know, I'll look it up.

02:20:22.000 You know what I say?

02:20:22.000 Just look at whatever the Russians are doing.

02:20:25.000 Whatever they're doing, that's the right way to do it. 1.00

02:20:27.000 Because they got a fucking state-sponsored program. 0.98

02:20:30.000 You know, the United States is working hard to try to clean it up. 0.99

02:20:33.000 Baseball players have to go in front of Congress.

02:20:35.000 They arrest people.

02:20:36.000 People are getting locked up. 0.99

02:20:37.000 USADA, Jeff Nowitzki's crawling up everybody's ass. 0.99

02:20:40.000 We're trying to find people that are using steroids and cheating. 0.99

02:20:44.000 And Russia, they're like, what do we got to do?

02:20:47.000 What do we got to do? 0.99

02:20:49.000 Let's fucking make it happen, boys. 0.99

02:20:51.000 You need to be faster. 0.99

02:20:52.000 I got this stuff that I got from a horse.

02:20:55.000 Stick it inside your body and see if you become a horse.

02:20:59.000 They did some crazy tests in the early days, also with making super soldiers, injecting people with plutonium, like prisoners.

02:21:08.000 See what happens if he morphs into a freaking Wolverine or whatever.

02:21:12.000 They've watched too many comic books.

02:21:14.000 I mean, they almost kicked the entire Russian Olympic team out of the Olympics in Brazil. 1.00

02:21:20.000 They were like, hey, what the fuck, guys? 0.97

02:21:23.000 At the last minute, they decided not to, but they've been going back. 0.98

02:21:27.000 They used the old samples from 2008 and 2012, and they've already kicked out two Russian Olympic gold medalists in wrestling.

02:21:34.000 Wow. 1.00

02:21:34.000 They're on the shit. 1.00

02:21:35.000 They're on the shit. 1.00

02:21:36.000 They're just on this undetectable shit, or some shit that they don't detect yet. 1.00

02:21:40.000 Corellin, when you see him? 1.00

02:21:42.000 Oh, yeah.

02:21:43.000 That was, I mean, lifting people up straight from the guard laying on their belly.

02:21:46.000 What's the most we can expect then, guys, from the sport?

02:21:49.000 Is it ever going to be clean?

02:21:50.000 Well, it's way cleaner now in the UFC than it's ever been before.

02:21:53.000 But I think there's also, I like the fact that 1FC's available for guys who don't want to be clean.

02:21:58.000 And Ryzen's available for guys who don't want to be clean.

02:22:01.000 You know, there's an argument either way.

02:22:02.000 There's an argument for the Pride way, which was everybody knew that everybody was on it.

02:22:07.000 They were tests in Pride, right?

02:22:09.000 Remember the guys in the white line?

02:22:10.000 Hey, boss, why is this vial just sitting here?

02:22:16.000 I mean, buddy, it was unbelievable.

02:22:19.000 They called it the Boss Tour.

02:22:20.000 I was going backstage with it.

02:22:21.000 The camera is showing everybody, hey man, what's up?

02:22:24.000 Hey, look at that, there's ventilator training.

02:22:26.000 And then I say, okay, we walk into the room from the doctors.

02:22:29.000 So I open the door and I look to the side and I see all the p-tests there with all the little sticks on them.

02:22:35.000 And I close the door right away and I look at the camera and I say, give me one moment.

02:22:38.000 They're very busy, let me walk in and ask for permission.

02:22:40.000 So I walk in and I grab one of those cups and I see green tea, I fill it up and I put the same cup next to it.

02:22:46.000 But you shouldn't have been allowed to be that close.

02:22:50.000 See, I could have contaminated everything.

02:22:54.000 So I'm walking in, and I say, oh, these are the doctors here.

02:22:56.000 And I look at this, and they go, oh, hey, the pee test.

02:22:59.000 I say, man, wouldn't it be great if you can taste what fighter it is?

02:23:06.000 And these people, they looked at me, and so I take my green tea, and I take the thing off, and they go like, no, no, no, no, no.

02:23:13.000 And I take a little sip, and I go, it's out of Coleman or Takara.

02:23:20.000 They were freaking out, man.

02:23:22.000 It was hilarious.

02:23:23.000 There you go.

02:23:24.000 There is a clear illustration, obviously not serious.

02:23:27.000 Yeah, not WADA or USADA. I can't walk in.

02:23:31.000 Ensign has been real open about it.

02:23:33.000 Ensign talked about it.

02:23:34.000 They literally said in large print, we do not test you for steroids.

02:23:38.000 And said it on the thing, you know?

02:23:41.000 You know, I knew a guy from there, and he would say to me that in the morning he would take a huge rinse of testosterone because it made him really angry in the fight.

02:23:50.000 In the morning?

02:23:51.000 Jesus Christ.

02:23:52.000 In the morning of the fight, he just jacked up. 1.00

02:23:54.000 Jacked up, went, fuck. 0.99

02:23:56.000 And what about these guys who were like bench pressing the day before? 1.00

02:23:59.000 You know, all these muscle guys who they got in, you know, that you thought, why do they have these guys?

02:24:03.000 Because of the fight.

02:24:04.000 But it was a cosmetic thing.

02:24:05.000 Bench pressing, yeah, they were bench pressing.

02:24:06.000 They were pride with love to the freaks.

02:24:08.000 That's my man, and that's a lot of matchmaking we saw.

02:24:11.000 Do you guys remember Jason Chambers from the show?

02:24:15.000 He went over to Japan.

02:24:16.000 I forget which organization it was.

02:24:18.000 They wanted him to fight 185. And he's like, I weigh 170. And they're like, don't worry.

02:24:23.000 We'll get you under style.

02:24:24.000 They told him.

02:24:26.000 They wanted him to juice up and go to 185. And he was like, what in the fuck? 0.99

02:24:30.000 Oh, man. 1.00

02:24:31.000 Yeah, that's the problem.

02:24:33.000 You know what people say here?

02:24:34.000 They say they should just allow it.

02:24:36.000 They say, yeah, but then you force the guys who want to stay clean to use it as well.

02:24:40.000 You shouldn't do that.

02:24:40.000 And as Joe mentioned earlier, I mean, there are health...

02:24:44.000 You're going to pay risk, but I think, not even health risks, I think, doesn't it damage your system when you do steroids?

02:24:50.000 Well, it depends on how much you're doing, but if you're going super hyperhuman levels, like I'm sure a lot of those guys were, yeah, it's super bad for you.

02:24:59.000 And it's one of the real clear indicators that a lot of guys were on it, were how they got off of it and came to the UFC and looked like mortals.

02:25:05.000 You know, they looked like human pit bulls.

02:25:07.000 We saw it right away with a lot of them.

02:25:09.000 Yeah, a lot of them.

02:25:10.000 I mean, it's just, it is what it is.

02:25:12.000 And it's, unfortunately, the early roots of MMA were marred.

02:25:17.000 Like, it's almost all people that took steroids.

02:25:20.000 I mean, there's so many camps. 0.94

02:25:21.000 If you talk to the insiders, they will tell you, God damn it, back then, everybody was on. 0.97

02:25:25.000 Wow. 0.98

02:25:25.000 Everybody was on. 0.98

02:25:26.000 You don't have to name names, and everybody who knows knows, and it doesn't matter.

02:25:31.000 But what does matter is that when you look at the early days of the sport, it was essentially contaminated.

02:25:36.000 And now they've wiped out a giant percentage of it.

02:25:39.000 And occasionally guys still get caught with some things, and Cyborg got caught with some sort of...

02:25:45.000 Yeah, it's also spironolactane is also a DHT inhibitor.

02:25:50.000 It's dihydrotestosterone, which is a derivative of testosterone, which makes your hair fall out.

02:25:55.000 And I used to use that spironolactane stuff that she got caught with. 0.98

02:25:59.000 I used to rub that shit on my head to keep my hair from falling out. 0.99

02:26:02.000 Boss, I'm taking notes. 1.00

02:26:04.000 I feel like I'm studying under Professor Rogan right now, which is amazing.

02:26:07.000 But no, that's good to know.

02:26:08.000 You have to know it.

02:26:09.000 It's also used by people who want to shield themselves from tests.

02:26:14.000 It's also used by females that have taken male hormones, and they want to reduce the effects of the extra androgens. 0.99

02:26:21.000 Yeah, so there's a lot of factors.

02:26:23.000 Yeah, once they start growing hair out of their backs, you know, I think, and getting a stash.

02:26:27.000 And all this, the back knee, right?

02:26:28.000 Remember in Pride Boss, we would see guys come in, they just had the back knee. 0.98

02:26:33.000 Oh, full of zits.

02:26:34.000 You could tell right away. 0.96

02:26:35.000 When you're banging a chick, and you see werewolf back hair.

02:26:38.000 Well, they say the glitters can be as big as a thumb, right?

02:26:41.000 That's what they say.

02:26:42.000 Whose thumb, though?

02:26:43.000 Yours?

02:26:43.000 Yeah, I've got a big, but it's minus lengthier.

02:26:46.000 You've got a fucking hell of a thumb. 0.98

02:26:46.000 Yeah, but it's not thick. 0.98

02:26:48.000 The girth is less.

02:26:49.000 But like Bob Sapp's thumb.

02:26:51.000 Oh, man.

02:26:52.000 The worst story I've ever heard, some guy, I was talking, I'm not going to mention names, and he said, and we were talking about that, and I go, oh, man, that's got to be really horrible.

02:27:01.000 He said, oh, no, I had one.

02:27:02.000 I dated a bodybuilder, and she had like a big thing. 1.00

02:27:04.000 I go, dude, What did you do? 0.99

02:27:06.000 He said, oh, I sucked it. 1.00

02:27:10.000 Like a baby soother. 1.00

02:27:13.000 Isn't that funny? 0.99

02:27:13.000 We're all good with sucking clits as long as they're little. 0.99

02:27:16.000 As long as it's little. 0.98

02:27:17.000 But I don't care if it feels good for you.

02:27:19.000 If I feel it more than a half an inch into my mouth, it's over.

02:27:24.000 I will run out of here like this place is on fire. 1.00

02:27:26.000 Even though it's a woman's vagina, it's still a vagina. 1.00

02:27:29.000 That's true. 1.00

02:27:30.000 But if it comes with the accompanied voice, the dark voice, the dark faded voice.

02:27:34.000 Oh yeah, I like it.

02:27:35.000 That's right.

02:27:38.000 I love it when you do this to me.

02:27:41.000 An animated Netflix special like a Taurus voice. 1.00

02:27:43.000 Get back here, I'm not done, you motherfucker. 1.00

02:27:46.000 I'm gonna get a baby and you're gonna be my father father. 1.00

02:27:49.000 There's gotta be guys that are just really into being dominated by super powerful women with big clits. 1.00

02:27:55.000 There has to be.

02:27:56.000 There has to be. 0.95

02:27:57.000 I mean, you got all sorts of crazy people.

02:27:59.000 Takes every kind of people.

02:28:00.000 Yeah, absolutely.

02:28:01.000 Yeah, some guys are listening right now go, oh yeah.

02:28:03.000 Oh yeah, that's my style, bro.

02:28:05.000 That's my thing.

02:28:07.000 So, do you think that when you guys look at Ryzen right now, do you think that Ryzen has the possibility of coming, they're putting on some fucking big shows, they've got some good fights, you know, Krokop just wins the heavyweight tournament, you know? 0.64

02:28:18.000 You're shaking your head over there.

02:28:19.000 I'm not, well...

02:28:20.000 You don't think they have a chance of success?

02:28:22.000 It's hard.

02:28:23.000 Again, after Sakuraba stopped, Pride pretty much started going down.

02:28:27.000 Does he need a Japanese star?

02:28:29.000 That's the thing.

02:28:29.000 You know, you have seen it with the K1. That was the reason K1 stopped at a certain time.

02:28:33.000 There was no more Japanese star.

02:28:35.000 And they need a good one.

02:28:36.000 But who you're going to fight is going to beat Fort Gracie's, right?

02:28:39.000 That's something that's a one-in-a-lifetime deal.

02:28:42.000 Well, K1 had Masato at the lighter weights, who was a superstar.

02:28:46.000 Yeah, K1 Max.

02:28:48.000 But then when you get up to the bigger guys, man...

02:28:50.000 Once you get a guy like Batarhari size, it's just not... 0.99

02:28:53.000 Who the fuck is going to be that big? 0.99

02:28:55.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:28:56.000 And that was sad too, how that fight ended.

02:28:58.000 Batarhari and Rico Verhoeven with the anticlimactic.

02:29:01.000 Unfortunate.

02:29:01.000 He broke his arm.

02:29:02.000 But still, interesting fight while it was going on.

02:29:04.000 And I'm excited about a rematch.

02:29:06.000 I hope so.

02:29:06.000 He looked like an animal.

02:29:07.000 Looks like Okatsaki might be wanting to come back as well.

02:29:10.000 Randy Boyanski's too.

02:29:12.000 But again, see...

02:29:13.000 Boyanski's like 40, right?

02:29:14.000 Yeah, these guys are...

02:29:16.000 I just met Andre Monarch.

02:29:17.000 He was there at Madison Square Garden for the World Series of Fighting on December 31st.

02:29:22.000 Monarch was there, his trainer, Bonjanski.

02:29:25.000 But he didn't say anything.

02:29:27.000 He said, you know, that's the guy who trains champions.

02:29:30.000 And he said, Bonjanski.

02:29:31.000 But he didn't say anything more.

02:29:32.000 And Sammy Schilt had to retire because of the heart condition.

02:29:36.000 Yeah, it's...

02:29:37.000 So you see a guy like Uberim, like back when he was Uberim, you know, and when he was winning K-1.

02:29:44.000 Slaughtered people. 1.00

02:29:45.000 265, super jacked, and then he goes to MMA. But, you know, a guy wins the K-1 Grand Prix.

02:29:50.000 Like, you gotta wonder, like, a guy like Uberim, if he came back as Uberim, you know, like, I don't know if it's Glory or Bellator...

02:29:59.000 Whoever has got the stones and the cash to pull them aside and say, listen, fella, there's work to be done here.

02:30:05.000 Yes, you can start again.

02:30:07.000 They would love to do it.

02:30:09.000 This is my friend.

02:30:10.000 He's from another country. 0.99

02:30:12.000 He is a doctor.

02:30:13.000 He will help you.

02:30:15.000 They will make you better, stronger, faster.

02:30:19.000 He comes back 270, jacked again.

02:30:22.000 Like back when he knocked out Botter.

02:30:24.000 Remember when he knocked out Botter with a left hook?

02:30:26.000 Oh, yeah.

02:30:28.000 Complete animal.

02:30:29.000 Tyrone Spong, I want to see him.

02:30:31.000 Man, that guy was so excited, but he broke his leg.

02:30:33.000 I don't know why I broke down.

02:30:35.000 That was the one time in all the fights and everything we've seen.

02:30:38.000 I remember I was there when Jose Pelley, Landy Johns, against Brian Gassway in Canada, John McCarthy and I, when he broke his leg.

02:30:45.000 But for some reason, Saki and Spong, I was broke down just to see because it was so visceral.

02:30:52.000 All of this, everything that it took for him to come back and put in, and then boom.

02:30:56.000 Well, it was crazy because Tyrone Spong and him are both super high-level kickboxers, and you only really saw that mostly in MMA. You really didn't see it that much in high-level kickboxing.

02:31:07.000 And that's pretty rare.

02:31:09.000 Matt Embry, this kid from Canada who's now going to be fighting in Los Angeles next week.

02:31:14.000 There's Canada, too, where the sport is banned in so many of the provinces, but Joseph Valtellini had to retire because of the concussion issues.

02:31:23.000 He's on next week.

02:31:24.000 I got him on here next week.

02:31:25.000 Awesome.

02:31:26.000 He's a smart kid, man.

02:31:27.000 Yeah, he's a great guy.

02:31:28.000 I don't think he's 100% decided on his retirement, but he's leaning towards that.

02:31:33.000 Medically, the concussions, not something you want to mess with.

02:31:38.000 We remember TJ Grant.

02:31:39.000 He was about to fight for the title when Benson had the title in the lightweight division.

02:31:44.000 Never came back.

02:31:45.000 Never came back.

02:31:46.000 And it's from concussions.

02:31:47.000 It just popped up.

02:31:48.000 Pitbull.

02:31:48.000 It was Pitbull who broke his shin.

02:31:50.000 It was at Bellator.

02:31:51.000 Oh, that's right.

02:31:52.000 That's right.

02:31:53.000 He broke that bone in the next to his shin.

02:31:57.000 Fibola, tibola, whatever it is.

02:31:59.000 Yeah, it's interesting also that we know we're talking about kickboxing not really gaining ground in America.

02:32:05.000 Bellator hasn't really gained ground either.

02:32:07.000 No.

02:32:07.000 You know, it reaches a certain point, and some of the ratings are really good, like when Ken Shamrock fought Royce Gracie.

02:32:13.000 Those freak shows.

02:32:13.000 Well, he invited what Meryl Streep Scott did.

02:32:17.000 And the letter wrote the letter, yeah, yeah.

02:32:20.000 On his Instagram.

02:32:20.000 Why don't you come and watch this?

02:32:22.000 He's a promoter.

02:32:23.000 Always has been, always will be.

02:32:25.000 There's that mix where I think Bellator has to focus on.

02:32:28.000 Because UFC, for the large part, 98%, 99% of the best talent.

02:32:34.000 But Bellator trying, but you're right.

02:32:35.000 And again, I think it's also because, Joe, what we talked about, too much of everything.

02:32:40.000 It's every week.

02:32:42.000 Yeah, but that's why the UFC did it as well.

02:32:44.000 First, they got to have the fighters and they need to fight.

02:32:46.000 Of course.

02:32:47.000 But by having so many shows, she shut every organization down, right? 0.68

02:32:50.000 Of course. 0.89

02:32:50.000 But then you look at guys and there's a few guys in Bellator, like Lima, who just knocked out Korshkov, which is fucking sensational. 0.89

02:32:57.000 Amazing, amazing.

02:32:57.000 Lima's world class.

02:32:59.000 He's a terrific fighter.

02:33:00.000 I mean, world series of fighting, even, man.

02:33:02.000 There's Marlon Moraes.

02:33:03.000 He's a great guy.

02:33:04.000 Although, Gaethje, we talked about.

02:33:06.000 Who was it?

02:33:06.000 Firmino?

02:33:07.000 Firmino, Justin Gaethje.

02:33:08.000 Justin Gaethje.

02:33:09.000 He got hit too many times.

02:33:09.000 He got lit up too in that fight.

02:33:11.000 He won, but he got hit too many times.

02:33:13.000 He really needs to change his gameplay.

02:33:15.000 He knows he can take a punch, but he takes too much advantage of it.

02:33:18.000 And I just don't think it's...

02:33:20.000 But that's...

02:33:20.000 What are the goals?

02:33:21.000 Respect.

02:33:21.000 Like, realistic.

02:33:22.000 Like, what you say.

02:33:23.000 Like, even Bellator hasn't got traction.

02:33:25.000 So, how do they...

02:33:26.000 How do they continue to exist?

02:33:28.000 It's hard.

02:33:28.000 That's what it is.

02:33:29.000 It is hard.

02:33:29.000 They've been around for a long time now.

02:33:31.000 World Series of Fighting been around for a long time now.

02:33:33.000 And the hardcore, hardcore fans.

02:33:35.000 Then you break it down.

02:33:36.000 Not even regular hardcore.

02:33:37.000 Hardcore, hardcore are watching those events.

02:33:39.000 It's almost like we're spoiled.

02:33:41.000 We have too many events.

02:33:42.000 We are spoiled.

02:33:43.000 And it's weird to say because how many years did we fight?

02:33:46.000 Hey, look at us!

02:33:47.000 Hey, we're here!

02:33:47.000 And now it's like, wow, a tsunami of action.

02:33:50.000 Well, the UFC has been super wise with its promotion.

02:33:53.000 They know how to stay on top.

02:33:55.000 I would like to see a challenger emerge.

02:34:01.000 Bellator has guys like Michael Chandler.

02:34:03.000 They've got some guys that are really exciting and really fun to watch and I think could be genuine stars.

02:34:08.000 And of course, Michael Venom Page.

02:34:10.000 I love that guy.

02:34:12.000 Man-scent, cyborg into retirement.

02:34:14.000 That knockout was...

02:34:16.000 That skull-crushing.

02:34:18.000 I've never seen that before.

02:34:18.000 Never seen it before.

02:34:19.000 His patella, his knee was indented in his skull!

02:34:23.000 It was a crazy timing, too, because Cyborg charged in, and it was kind of what we're talking about.

02:34:28.000 Someone shooting for a double, but I don't think his knees were on the ground at that time.

02:34:32.000 But as he shot in, Michael Venom Page timed it perfectly and taught him coming in.

02:34:37.000 Remember Takanori Gomi, Half Gracie? 0.95

02:34:39.000 Oh yeah!

02:34:40.000 First move of the fight.

02:34:43.000 That was Half's last fight, right?

02:34:44.000 Yeah, that's right.

02:34:46.000 Yeah, man.

02:34:47.000 I mean, a guy was trying to take you down.

02:34:49.000 I mean, it's so devastating.

02:34:50.000 You have to commit to that knee or commit to that takedown, and you get caught coming in like that.

02:34:56.000 Yeah, it's not like you can shoot with one hand in front of your face.

02:34:59.000 It's very hard.

02:35:00.000 That was probably the most horrific injury I've ever seen in MMA. I think so.

02:35:03.000 Yeah.

02:35:04.000 Also afterwards, the pictures, you know, with all these little plants on him.

02:35:07.000 Insane.

02:35:07.000 And then he wants to fight again.

02:35:09.000 Well, no, but he's retiring.

02:35:10.000 He's retiring.

02:35:10.000 Yeah, yeah, I just announced.

02:35:12.000 Yeah, I think he sat back after the fact and just really realized, like, wow, the fucking egg that contains my brain is cracked. 0.99

02:35:19.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:35:21.000 It's amazing that he recovered the way he did, as far as I'm concerned.

02:35:24.000 After seeing the x-rays and the pictures, it's unbelievable, man. 0.94

02:35:30.000 Fucking insane. 0.98

02:35:30.000 Yeah, I thought he'd be dead. 0.98

02:35:32.000 You know, you think someone's skulls crushed like that, they're dead.

02:35:35.000 How many fingers?

02:35:37.000 It has to touch something of the brain that does something to you, right?

02:35:41.000 It's a scary thing if you think about it.

02:35:43.000 And how much damage did his brain take in that?

02:35:46.000 I mean, that is a significant impact.

02:35:47.000 And even in his career!

02:35:49.000 I remember Lee, not Lee, Jordan Meehan against him.

02:35:54.000 But do the same thing!

02:35:57.000 Him and Munhoof in England.

02:36:00.000 They had some wars going on.

02:36:02.000 Like you say, to see Noguera at his prime in UFC, how many wars did Rodrigo and O'Jerry go through?

02:36:11.000 But how many shots did they take from Vader and the guard?

02:36:15.000 And they go, man, don't take those shots.

02:36:17.000 You know, try to... 0.98

02:36:18.000 Crazy.

02:36:18.000 So many fighters in Pride, bro.

02:36:20.000 Again, what we talked about, the stomps, the...

02:36:23.000 Gary Goodrich right now is coming out with everything, you know?

02:36:26.000 It's so sad to see him because the guy was amazing.

02:36:30.000 I just saw the...

02:36:31.000 What was some...

02:36:33.000 I don't know if it was one of those sports news magazine shows, the...

02:36:37.000 With the NFL and stuff, that they had 99 samples of former football players' brains were dedicated to their research.

02:36:44.000 Out of those, almost 100% showed signs of CTE. Yeah, I can't imagine you'd get away without it.

02:36:50.000 I mean, it's just, you're colliding into each other.

02:36:52.000 It's terrible.

02:36:53.000 There's no way around it.

02:36:55.000 You know what Gary Goodrich said that it really is his K-1 career that did him in.

02:36:59.000 For sure.

02:37:01.000 The gatekeeper there also, you know, pretty much.

02:37:03.000 But hey, he knocked out Imperato all the way in the beginning.

02:37:06.000 Yeah, oh yeah.

02:37:07.000 Yes, I think we were talking about it at the Pride Fighting Championships when he came over there.

02:37:11.000 He was a powerful guy.

02:37:11.000 Oh, man.

02:37:12.000 Remember when even Don Fry, and God, I hope speedy recovery to Don.

02:37:17.000 His back is feeling great now, actually.

02:37:18.000 I just texted him yesterday.

02:37:20.000 Good.

02:37:20.000 Remember when he came back to Pride, that New Year's Eve show, and Goodridge knocked him out right away, too, the rivalry.

02:37:27.000 But, yeah, Goodridge was a beast back in the day as well.

02:37:29.000 Yeah, what happened?

02:37:30.000 He beat Gary in UFC. Yeah, I think so.

02:37:35.000 UFC, of course.

02:37:36.000 And then in the Pride, the rematch was years later in Pride on New Year's Eve, and it was like one kick, and that was it.

02:37:42.000 Yeah, because Gary now was a kickboxer.

02:37:46.000 That's right.

02:37:49.000 I forgot about that.

02:37:54.000 I completely forgot about Fry and Goodrich too.

02:37:58.000 And then Ivelded it to Goodrich, I believe, right?

02:38:00.000 That's right.

02:38:02.000 That's where it all started.

02:38:03.000 What about Swanson and Duho Choi?

02:38:05.000 An amazing fight, but Duho Choi took how many shots?

02:38:10.000 That was a crazy fight.

02:38:11.000 That was one of the most chaotic fights I've ever watched.

02:38:14.000 And one of the most...

02:38:16.000 Like, the data wasn't going in my head correctly.

02:38:18.000 I was like, how is he getting hit with these haymakers that Cub Swanson's winging in from downtown Cleveland and cracking him on his head? 0.99

02:38:27.000 When he came from across the fucking country, his punches were crazy! 0.99

02:38:31.000 It was so much a ball! 1.00

02:38:33.000 And boom! 0.98

02:38:34.000 He would take it right on the chin and just stagger back.

02:38:37.000 And then Cub would crack him again.

02:38:38.000 He would stagger back.

02:38:39.000 It's just unbelievable.

02:38:41.000 Our room, everybody's standing.

02:38:42.000 It was insane.

02:38:44.000 A lot of people picked it as the fight.

02:38:48.000 Remember, it started with Lawler and Condit?

02:38:52.000 What a year, dude, for fights.

02:38:54.000 That was a crazy fight, too.

02:38:57.000 Holloway, you know when he draw the line, remember?

02:38:59.000 And then they started slinging it out of the line.

02:39:04.000 He's one of my favorite guys too, man.

02:39:05.000 We had him on our podcast, Max Holloway.

02:39:07.000 That's Conor McGregor too.

02:39:09.000 He's 100% convinced he's going to get a title.

02:39:11.000 He's one of these guys that nobody's going to stand in his path.

02:39:14.000 But you know what?

02:39:15.000 We went the distance with Conor, but I mean Conor did...

02:39:18.000 Conor beat him.

02:39:19.000 Conor had a blown out of ACL in that fight too.

02:39:21.000 That's right.

02:39:22.000 He said that he was also injured.

02:39:25.000 Oh, Max was?

02:39:26.000 Yeah.

02:39:26.000 Yeah, I believe it.

02:39:27.000 You know, Max is a real...

02:39:29.000 I mean, he's an interim champion right now, but he's world championship caliber.

02:39:32.000 Oh, yeah.

02:39:33.000 I just want to see how he does against Aldo.

02:39:35.000 I want to see how he does against some of the best guys.

02:39:37.000 But, you know, he's finished Cub Swanson.

02:39:38.000 Should we get rid of interim titles through and through? 0.99

02:39:41.000 Boxing, MMA, all this shit? 0.57

02:39:42.000 I think the only way that interim titles make any sense is if someone is recovering from a catastrophic injury. 0.99

02:39:48.000 Catastrophic injury.

02:39:49.000 Yeah, like someone blows their ACL out, and you go, okay, well, the title is now going to be suspended for a whole year.

02:39:54.000 Because it's going to take six months before you can even start training again, and then nine months before you can start training hard, and then three months to go through a camp, you need a year.

02:40:04.000 And then you've got Cruz, which took even longer.

02:40:07.000 Or do you simply say, listen, the title is going to be taken away from you.

02:40:14.000 You know, you're not the champion anymore, but you are the first one in line as soon as you come back.

02:40:18.000 And that's usually the case a lot of the time, right?

02:40:21.000 When they do recover, they do get the...

02:40:23.000 But I just think...

02:40:24.000 I don't think so.

02:40:24.000 I think that's in the interim.

02:40:25.000 Yeah, because then they lose the title and it's in town in the history books, right?

02:40:28.000 Yeah, that's when the interim makes sense.

02:40:30.000 When someone's got a bad injury and, you know, like Anderson Silva breaks his leg.

02:40:33.000 I don't think it made sense with Conor to take it away.

02:40:36.000 I mean, I know if he wasn't going to defend it, but we know.

02:40:39.000 I mean, they needed...

02:40:40.000 Again, I think the UFC is at a point now.

02:40:43.000 Which one do you don't think makes sense?

02:40:44.000 The Holloway.

02:40:45.000 When they took it away from Conor at 145?

02:40:47.000 He's not defending the title.

02:40:49.000 He's not defending the title.

02:40:50.000 You've got to take it away from him.

02:40:52.000 Okay, I agree, but I think if Aldo's already the champion, then the winner of Holloway, they become the number one contender then.

02:40:59.000 Yeah, but the problem is you tie up the titles.

02:41:02.000 You've got a guy who's the champ champ.

02:41:05.000 Yeah.

02:41:05.000 Champ-champ like Connor, champ at 45 and 55. Yep.

02:41:08.000 You gotta say you gotta vacate one, because it's like, to hold two of them subsequently, or simultaneously...

02:41:13.000 But then they should have done it right then and there.

02:41:14.000 He made history, thank you very much, here's the one title that I'm not going to defend.

02:41:18.000 No, he's gotta decide.

02:41:19.000 You know, he decided he's gonna stay at 55, or they decided for him. 0.99

02:41:22.000 I don't know what the fuck's going on. 0.99

02:41:23.000 Yeah, I don't know. 0.99

02:41:24.000 I don't think he can get 145. It's going to be hard for him.

02:41:27.000 See, there's another weight cut that you're right.

02:41:29.000 I don't think he should be at 145. He doesn't look like a man when you see him at 145. It's like death.

02:41:37.000 It's terrible.

02:41:38.000 You can only do that so many times.

02:41:39.000 Much healthier at 155, and there's a bunch of fights for him.

02:41:43.000 But then, you know, when they were talking about Nurmagomedov fighting Tony Ferguson.

02:41:47.000 Look at that, guys.

02:41:47.000 Yeah.

02:41:48.000 Yeah, look at that fucking picture on the left. 1.00

02:41:50.000 He looks like a dead man. 1.00

02:41:52.000 He looks like a dead man. 0.99

02:41:54.000 I am coming for you.

02:41:56.000 Yeah, much, much healthier on the right.

02:41:58.000 So I think that, you know, if they were talking about having Aldo and Nurmagomedov fight for an interim 155 title or Ferguson.

02:42:07.000 So then what happens at 145?

02:42:09.000 I think that's, well, 45 is now Aldo.

02:42:12.000 Aldo's the champ.

02:42:13.000 Max Holloway's the interim champ.

02:42:14.000 Those guys have to fight.

02:42:15.000 They should fight.

02:42:16.000 They should fight.

02:42:16.000 100%.

02:42:17.000 100%. 0.99

02:42:18.000 But now Aldo, I mean, I don't know if it's true, but Nurmagomedov said it was bullshit. 0.69

02:42:22.000 They were talking about Aldo fighting a super fight with Nurmagomedov in Russia. 0.87

02:42:26.000 And of course Tony Ferguson's like, what?

02:42:28.000 Well, Tony Ferguson wanted more money than his contract stated, and unfortunately for him, he's in a weird position right now because there's so many fights to be made at 55. And the big one, of course, is Conor.

02:42:39.000 Sure.

02:42:39.000 Anybody who Conor fights, if Nurmagomedov decides to fight Conor, and they decide that's the big fight, and they put it on in Russia, Put it anywhere, but Russia for sure.

02:42:47.000 Good luck with those Irish guys and the Russian guys.

02:42:51.000 But no, you're right.

02:42:52.000 I don't think they do realize, Joe, how big he is in Russia.

02:42:56.000 Nurmagomedov's giant.

02:42:57.000 He's a huge, huge star. 0.99

02:42:58.000 When he goes on stage too, like when he steps onto the platform and enters into the cage, the fucking crowd goes nuts. 0.99

02:43:04.000 They know who he is. 0.97

02:43:05.000 It's just one of those things where Russians are way ahead of the game in terms of knowing who he is, and he's a giant star over there, but he could be a giant star over here too.

02:43:13.000 Sure. 1.00

02:43:14.000 Kid's a fucking mauler. 1.00

02:43:15.000 He mauls people. 1.00

02:43:16.000 And a fighting guy too, you know, outside of fighting.

02:43:19.000 He's got personality, for sure.

02:43:20.000 I like him.

02:43:21.000 He's, you know, he's a real wild card in that division because he's undefeated.

02:43:26.000 Yeah.

02:43:27.000 I mean, we saw one moment of weakness.

02:43:29.000 That's it.

02:43:30.000 One moment was he in trouble and he came back from that brilliantly.

02:43:33.000 Cain Velasquez ever fight again? 0.99

02:43:35.000 Yeah, he's gonna fight again, but, you know, he's got some serious fucking medical problems. 0.93

02:43:39.000 He's got a stenosis, spinal stenosis, which is they have to clean out his area where his spine is. 0.95

02:43:46.000 So why would you fight again?

02:43:47.000 Because he's got a dream.

02:43:49.000 I don't know what you mean.

02:43:50.000 When you say it medically like that, you know what I'm saying?

02:43:53.000 Well, apparently the doctors are very convinced that they can open up that pathway a little bit, and whatever's pressing down on the bone spurs or anything, they're pressing down the nerve, they can remove those, and that'll alleviate his issues.

02:44:06.000 I don't know, though.

02:44:06.000 I'm not a doctor.

02:44:07.000 I don't know what's going on. 0.99

02:44:08.000 But he fucked up in saying that he had to get surgery before the Verdum fight. 0.98

02:44:15.000 That was a big mistake. 0.99

02:44:16.000 Yeah, it was.

02:44:16.000 Because you put Bob Bennett and the Nevada State Athletic Commission in a terrible position because you're saying that you're compromised.

02:44:22.000 And so then they ran some tests on him, and I guess his doctor cleared him, but the Nevada State Athletic Commission was like, look, you're going to have to have a cortisone shot and numb everything up.

02:44:30.000 And even though you might have some, you don't have really a problem as far as the structure of your back, you might be compromised.

02:44:39.000 So they're like, you can't do it.

02:44:40.000 Go get the surgery.

02:44:42.000 What about that French heavyweight, Nganou?

02:44:45.000 He's a dark horse.

02:44:46.000 Literally and figuratively.

02:44:48.000 But wow.

02:44:49.000 When you were talking about Romero, I was thinking about him.

02:44:52.000 I'm like, wow, that guy is a monster, man. 0.99

02:44:55.000 Yeah, Nganou can punch so fucking hard, and he kicks so hard, too. 0.99

02:44:59.000 And he gets into the octagon. 0.98

02:45:01.000 There's certain dudes, they walk in the octagon, they sound different.

02:45:04.000 It's like...

02:45:05.000 Fee-fi-fo-fum... 0.99

02:45:10.000 They're just bigger, man.

02:45:12.000 Gonzaga was like that.

02:45:14.000 Gonzaga would step on the platform to weigh in and just be like, Jesus Christ.

02:45:17.000 He's made out of stone.

02:45:19.000 It was just heavier.

02:45:20.000 Boom.

02:45:21.000 I love those elbows.

02:45:22.000 You remember that he threw over the top and threw the defense on the ground when he was in the guard?

02:45:26.000 Yeah.

02:45:26.000 Well, it was sweet revenge when Mirko came back and smashed him with elbows from the top in their rematch.

02:45:32.000 Yeah, what a rematch.

02:45:33.000 It was crazy also.

02:45:33.000 That's crazy.

02:45:34.000 That fight, Mirko was saying that one of the things he doesn't like about the UFC vs.

02:45:38.000 Pride was that there's too much grappling and that there's too many elbows on the ground.

02:45:43.000 But what won him the fight?

02:45:45.000 Grappling and elbows on the ground. 0.99

02:45:46.000 It's fucking crazy. 0.99

02:45:48.000 He was worried that Gonzaga was just trying to take him down and that he wasn't going to stand with him so he couldn't get his revenge from the head kick knockout. 0.99

02:45:56.000 But he got it.

02:45:56.000 Meanwhile, he takes Gonzaga down, he's on top, and he smashes him with elbows.

02:46:00.000 It's so ironic.

02:46:01.000 It's unbelievable, man.

02:46:02.000 You learn.

02:46:03.000 It's a learning game.

02:46:06.000 Also, when you get a guy who's that level of striker like Marco is, throwing elbows from the guard, you see how much force he can generate.

02:46:13.000 He's retired again after winning the Ryzen thing.

02:46:15.000 Beautiful for him, man.

02:46:17.000 What a great win.

02:46:18.000 Great way to go out on an epic career.

02:46:21.000 One of the all-time faves of course the whole the prank you pulled but I mean the fight with Fedor just he was one of them for me the guy right away when you were around him was like holy shit I'll never forget his stare down with Vandele for that first fight.

02:46:35.000 The first fight someone finally out stared Vandele.

02:46:40.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:46:40.000 No, he was not afraid.

02:46:42.000 This guy's a fucking straight-up killer. 1.00

02:46:45.000 Looking right into your soul. 1.00

02:46:47.000 Yeah, ready to cut your heart out with a fucking butter knife. 1.00

02:46:50.000 I mean, that was no joke, man. 0.99

02:46:52.000 That's why it was so easy to set him up, because Mirko didn't want to be interviewed by anybody.

02:46:58.000 He wanted me to interview him, and nobody else could interview him.

02:47:01.000 He didn't respect the media.

02:47:03.000 He never used to go to press conferences.

02:47:06.000 He hated the media.

02:47:08.000 Why did he hate the media?

02:47:09.000 Just because, well, remember the translation?

02:47:13.000 I guess there was an interview, right, with our...

02:47:15.000 Remember there was an interview where I guess the Pride people were translating it wrong and he came across, he's like, F you guys.

02:47:21.000 So, I mean, he and Boss had a kinship.

02:47:23.000 But, yeah, I was very intimidated, my man, and you got me good.

02:47:28.000 But he, wow.

02:47:29.000 But it showed a personality, too, because that was the time where it showed, you know, he could be playful.

02:47:32.000 Plus then he became your buddy now, right? 0.98

02:47:34.000 Most people don't know what the fuck you're talking about, but you guys played a prank on Morrow. 0.99

02:47:39.000 Okay. 0.99

02:47:40.000 Well, the prank was this.

02:47:42.000 He was facing, Mirko Krokop was facing Ron Waterman.

02:47:45.000 Now, the way we set it up, like two days before the fight, we both interview a fighter.

02:47:49.000 He interviews Waterman.

02:47:50.000 I interview Krokop because he never wanted to do anything with Krokop.

02:47:53.000 He was afraid of Krokop.

02:47:55.000 Plus, Krokop said he wanted only to be interviewed by me.

02:47:57.000 Okay.

02:47:58.000 So I'm already, before this, I'm thinking, okay, I've got to do something.

02:48:01.000 So I went to Krokop and I said, listen, I'm going to interview Waterman, and then it's like, oh no, you know, it's an oh no moment, you're going to have to interview Mirko Krokop.

02:48:10.000 Are you okay with that?

02:48:10.000 He said, sure, because he thought it was funny.

02:48:13.000 So Waterman comes in, I start interviewing him, and sure enough, when he left, I look at Mauro, I go, oh dude, I'm so sorry.

02:48:19.000 And he goes, what?

02:48:20.000 I said, I interviewed Waterman.

02:48:22.000 So, I said, well, you're going to have to interview Mirko.

02:48:25.000 He goes, no man, I don't want to interview Mirko.

02:48:27.000 And Mirko never wanted to go to these interviews.

02:48:29.000 He wanted to be interviewed on the day of the event in his dressing room.

02:48:32.000 Yeah, that's right.

02:48:33.000 So we go to the dressing room with him, and he starts, and Mirko is now all in on it.

02:48:39.000 Oh yeah, there it is.

02:48:40.000 There it is.

02:48:41.000 And he starts telling, hey, you know, Warren Waterman, he said something about a funeral, and Mirko is thinking for a comeback, and he says, a funeral is when somebody passes away.

02:48:52.000 And then Mirko goes, I know what a funeral is!

02:48:54.000 So it starts like that, and slowly but surely, and suddenly Mirko stops and he says, you know, I didn't like the way you were commentating on my fight last time.

02:49:02.000 And it wasn't him commentating, it was somebody else.

02:49:04.000 So he goes, no, no, it wasn't me.

02:49:05.000 No, no, it was you.

02:49:05.000 And he looked at his corner, and the whole corner goes, yeah, no, it was you.

02:49:08.000 And he's looking at me.

02:49:10.000 Mauro looks at me like, a little help here, a little help, and I'm just looking away, you know.

02:49:13.000 I'm not saying anything.

02:49:15.000 And then, yeah, no, I really didn't expect, no, no, but I really wasn't doing it.

02:49:18.000 Can we go back to the questions?

02:49:20.000 But now Mirko started getting annoyed, you know, and he doesn't want to ask questions anymore.

02:49:24.000 He says, dude, this guy is angry.

02:49:25.000 He doesn't like me.

02:49:26.000 I don't want to scare you.

02:49:26.000 So he gets out and we send him back.

02:49:28.000 We said, no, no, you're going to have to ask him a few more questions.

02:49:31.000 So we said, oh, no.

02:49:33.000 He's going back, and he sits down again, and he starts going, and Mirko suddenly, Mirko gets up and says, you know what, this is it, and he walks straight up to Mauro, and Mauro starts pissing his pants off, because he thinks, oh, this is over, and Mauro comes out, he says, no, no, okay, I don't want to do it, you need one more question,

02:49:48.000 we need one more question, he goes, no, no, I don't want to do it, and he's walking away, and he's walking away, and I go, uh-oh, uh-oh, and Mirko came out of the dressing room, and he started walking straight, Straight up to Mauro, Mauro, you see him shrinking, and he goes, dude, this is all just a joke.

02:50:05.000 It was like Kaiser Suse, remember unusual, miracle coming out, he's gonna fucking left kick my head off, my career's done, I'm finished, and then he was in on it, but yeah, you guys, it was terrifying.

02:50:17.000 Well, that was when he was the head of the anti-terrorist squad in Croatia.

02:50:22.000 He was a badass man.

02:50:24.000 He had some little notches on his rifle, I guess.

02:50:29.000 For sure.

02:50:30.000 On his knife, for sure.

02:50:32.000 One of those big Rambo knives. 1.00

02:50:34.000 There was some real shit going on. 0.99

02:50:35.000 He never came to press conferences, showed up to fight, and got the hell out of Dodge. 0.99

02:50:40.000 Well, he was one of the first real high-level kickboxers to enter into Pride.

02:50:43.000 And once he learned how to sprawl, he started lighting people up.

02:50:47.000 Lighting Volchampchen, remember that?

02:50:48.000 He knocked out Fedor's brother, Alexander.

02:50:51.000 Vandele.

02:50:51.000 Ooh, Vandele.

02:50:52.000 Remember the open-weight Grand Prix?

02:50:56.000 Unbelievable what he did to Vandele.

02:50:58.000 Vandele was heavier than him back then.

02:50:59.000 Vandele was 218 and Kokop was 214. Remember Vandele and Mark Hunt with Randy Couture doing the commentary?

02:51:07.000 There's a small cunt over his right eye. 0.98

02:51:14.000 Think about the weight difference there! 0.89

02:51:16.000 A lot of people thought that that fight kind of ruined Vandele, but Hunt cracked him a couple of times and had him stunned in that fight, and that was one of Vandele's last fights in his prime.

02:51:27.000 But he's another one, man.

02:51:29.000 Right?

02:51:30.000 Just him and Quentin, Rampage Jackson.

02:51:32.000 How about that for a dramatic KO? Halloween, Pride 28, when Jackson did very well in the rematch, and then Vanderlei catches him again, the knees and stuff, and he's between the ropes and blood flowing from his...

02:51:44.000 Holy crap, man. 0.97

02:51:45.000 That was a bad knockout. 0.99

02:51:46.000 That was real bad, and he smashed his nose open.

02:51:48.000 What's going on with Vanderlei now?

02:51:50.000 Vanderlei's going to fight in Ryzen?

02:51:51.000 I heard.

02:51:52.000 Well, he was supposed to fight Mirko in the Ryzen thing and he pulled out.

02:51:58.000 He had an injury or something?

02:51:59.000 Yeah.

02:51:59.000 I don't know.

02:52:00.000 He's hanging out with Bellator.

02:52:01.000 Another one, man.

02:52:03.000 They can't fight anymore, man, can he?

02:52:05.000 I'm not the one to say by any means, but...

02:52:07.000 What's the point?

02:52:08.000 Well, he definitely can fight more, whether or not his health is good.

02:52:12.000 I mean, he hasn't fought in a long time now, too.

02:52:15.000 You've got to think, like, this is a long time off.

02:52:18.000 I remember once he told us in Pride, I go, how long, you know, typical question, how much long do you want to do?

02:52:24.000 Well, Randy Couture did it until he was 48, so I'm going to do it until I'm 50. Well.

02:52:28.000 What do you guys think about what happened with Vandele? 0.92

02:52:30.000 Because with Vandele, they came to him, USADA came to him, they tried to test him, and he's like, I'm out of here, and he fucking ran. 0.94

02:52:37.000 Not good.

02:52:38.000 Wolverine did the same thing?

02:52:40.000 He flew back to Holland.

02:52:42.000 Yep.

02:52:42.000 When was this?

02:52:43.000 Remember, he was against Mir, was it?

02:52:46.000 Or what fight was it supposed to be?

02:52:47.000 Where he was the same thing, kind of got out of Dodge when the testing was looking for him.

02:52:50.000 But Vandelay's same, yeah.

02:52:52.000 I didn't know about the Alistair.

02:52:53.000 Why didn't I know about that one?

02:52:55.000 Yeah, he...

02:52:56.000 What was the first Alistair over?

02:52:59.000 Yeah, they went the same thing.

02:53:01.000 But he tried to say, well, I didn't know that you guys were...

02:53:05.000 Sprints away from drug tests.

02:53:07.000 Yeah.

02:53:08.000 Okay, so this is 2012. So that was back when it was a real, like, a real, this is really rare that you would get caught.

02:53:17.000 Yep.

02:53:17.000 Yeah, see Frank, yeah, the mirror's right there.

02:53:19.000 So yeah, I mean, it's dumb, right? 0.97

02:53:23.000 Definitely not good. 0.96

02:53:24.000 I'm guilty!

02:53:25.000 That's it.

02:53:26.000 I'm guilty!

02:53:28.000 But it just seems like, to me, they railroaded him.

02:53:30.000 I mean, you can't just take the guy's career away.

02:53:32.000 If you tested him and he was positive, that's whatever punishment he should get.

02:53:36.000 If he runs away from the test, just say he's positive, and then he would have already been fighting again.

02:53:41.000 But instead, they tried to suspend him forever.

02:53:44.000 Forever, for life.

02:53:46.000 So he got that overturned, but now he's still battling out in court.

02:53:49.000 Who knows how much it cost him in court.

02:53:51.000 But did he do himself any favors with this interview, you know, bashing UFC, bashing everybody?

02:53:57.000 Well, it was worse than that.

02:53:57.000 He started making YouTube videos.

02:53:59.000 YouTube, right.

02:53:59.000 Like a maniac staring in front of the camera.

02:54:03.000 Who?

02:54:04.000 Vanderlei.

02:54:05.000 I got a present for you, friend.

02:54:08.000 Yeah, it just got crazy.

02:54:10.000 Yeah, I mean, it was probably some really dark moments for him.

02:54:12.000 Oh, I bet.

02:54:13.000 I mean, where does he make money now?

02:54:14.000 Just his gym, I guess, right?

02:54:16.000 In fact, I don't even know how successful.

02:54:19.000 It's hard as a fighter.

02:54:20.000 For me, it's hard to not do it anymore.

02:54:22.000 Especially not train anymore.

02:54:23.000 At least when you can train, you have that.

02:54:27.000 But the feeling, there's no feeling like it to walk out.

02:54:30.000 Are you training at all anymore?

02:54:33.000 No, only just water exercise underwater.

02:54:35.000 And sometimes I do with weights training just my right arm pretty much.

02:54:40.000 Weren't you going to fight Vanderlei and Pride with MMA gloves?

02:54:42.000 That was that show, the Dynamite show.

02:54:44.000 That was officially, I was facing to fight him.

02:54:47.000 They asked me, you want to fight?

02:54:49.000 But I didn't fight for a long time.

02:54:50.000 And I said, listen, I've only been striking.

02:54:52.000 So since this is a mix between K1 and Pride, why don't we do a kickboxing match with the Pride gloves?

02:54:59.000 I would love to do that.

02:55:00.000 But they didn't go for it.

02:55:02.000 He chose another opponent at the time.

02:55:05.000 But I think that would have been great.

02:55:07.000 That would have been cool.

02:55:08.000 You had a lot of good money at the time.

02:55:10.000 That would have been a crazy fight.

02:55:11.000 So what's holding Ryzen back from becoming like Pride again?

02:55:16.000 Superstar.

02:55:16.000 A superstar.

02:55:17.000 A superstar.

02:55:18.000 And they just need some big Japanese dude. 0.99

02:55:21.000 To come along, capture some Sakuraba-type character, to capture the public's imagination.

02:55:27.000 Surprised they haven't brushed Sakuraba.

02:55:29.000 Poor guy, man.

02:55:31.000 Yeah, I mean, he took some horrible, horrible...

02:55:33.000 We met him when he fought Henzo again, and then met him Morris in Cali, and Frank and I had a chance to visit with him.

02:55:41.000 Frank was very close to fighting Sakuraba in pride.

02:55:44.000 They offered a big contract, same thing.

02:55:46.000 They couldn't come to an agreement, but...

02:55:49.000 Well, listen, we've got to wrap this up.

02:55:50.000 You guys were a duo for some of the greatest fights of all time.

02:55:54.000 I enjoyed it deeply.

02:55:56.000 I enjoyed it, and I appreciate you guys coming on.

02:55:59.000 Enjoy this a lot.

02:56:00.000 And let everybody know about your podcast.

02:56:02.000 You've got two podcasts going on.

02:56:04.000 We drop the one on Monday, Combat Sports Carousel, where we cover MMA, boxing, a little WWE, and kickboxing as well.

02:56:11.000 And Boss breaks it down like a boss.

02:56:13.000 And then on Fridays, it's just Boss and I riffing on a bunch of different things.

02:56:18.000 A life.

02:56:18.000 Life, movies, entertainment, comedy, Joe Rogan, Rooted and Ranello.

02:56:22.000 Rooted and Ranello.

02:56:23.000 If you spell it out, all A-N-D, RootedandRanello.com, you can find all the platforms there.

02:56:27.000 iTunes, SoundCloud, everything.

02:56:27.000 And the other one is Combat.

02:56:29.000 Sports Carousel.

02:56:29.000 But you can find it all.

02:56:31.000 Once you click there on the link, you see them all.

02:56:33.000 All right.

02:56:34.000 Thank you, gentlemen.

02:56:34.000 Thank you, Joe.

02:56:35.000 Thank you.

02:56:36.000 Bye.

02:56:37.000 Whoop.

The Joe Rogan Experience - January 11, 2017

Joe Rogan Experience #898 - Bas Rutten & Mauro Ranallo

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Summary

Transcript