The Joe Rogan Experience


Joe Rogan Experience #901 - Dr. Rhonda Patrick


Summary

In this episode, Jack and Dr. Rhonda Patrick talk about the benefits of writing notes before a comedy set, and how it can help you remember what you're talking about. They also talk about true crime stories, and what it's like to be an honor roll kid and then get caught in a police sting. Jack is a standup comedian in Los Angeles and is one of the funniest people I know. Dr. Patrick is a professor of psychology at the University of California, Los Angeles, and is a regular contributor to the Los Angeles Daily News and Los Angeles Magazine. You can catch up with both of them on Comedy Central's "Comedy Central" and HBO's "Late Night with Seth Meyers" where they talk about all things comedy and other things related to stand-up comedy. They're both hilarious and smart, and you should definitely check out both of their comedy sets. Jack and Rhonda talk about how to write notes before comedy sets, and why it's a good idea to have a notebook to keep track of all of your notes before you're on stage. Also, Jack gives us some tips on how to remember what to write down before a set. We hope you enjoy this episode and can't wait to do it again next week! Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Comedy Central Spotlight! - Jack and Rachael! Jack & Dr. Phyllis - Thank you for listening and supporting the podcast! (and we hope you have a great rest of the week! - Jack & Rachieve your best week ever again! xoxo, Jack & Rhonda and we'll see you next week. - Caitie, Caitie ( ) Thanks, Jack, Rachie, and Jack, and we love you, and keep you listening to the podcasting, and hope you're having a great week! <3 Caitie & Jon & Jon, and Jon, too much love you! - Jon and Jon (and Jon, Jon, etc etc., etc., and much more! . Jon & Jon & Jack, etc., - Jon & Dan, etc. (Thank you, Jon & Brian, etc, etc.) , etc., Jon & Jake, and all of the rest of your support and support you, too, and so much so much love, RACHIE


Transcript

00:00:01.000 Five, four, three, two, one.
00:00:05.000 Dr. Rhonda Patrick, hello.
00:00:08.000 Hello.
00:00:09.000 Welcome back.
00:00:10.000 You got a big fat book of notes over there.
00:00:13.000 I do.
00:00:14.000 It's intimidating.
00:00:17.000 It's something I use before I'm giving a talk or something like that where I like to...
00:00:23.000 Something about handwriting things helps me remember.
00:00:28.000 Oh, yeah.
00:00:29.000 They've shown that.
00:00:29.000 I do that before shows.
00:00:31.000 If you looked at my notebook, and if you ever thought that I actually wrote in my notebook, you'd think I'm a crazy person, because I'm writing the same thing over and over again.
00:00:39.000 All work no play makes Jack a tall boy.
00:00:42.000 I just like before a set what I do is I just write out the key things that I wanted to work on and I'll write them out over and over again so like I'll have a hundred page notebook and it's like a hundred pages of like half of it's the same stuff over and over again.
00:00:55.000 Yeah, I'm kind of the same way.
00:00:57.000 I'll write out things that are in more detail, and then, like you said, I'll write just a cue.
00:01:04.000 It's different when you're giving a talk, at least in academia, like a PowerPoint talk, you have a slide, and the slide cues a couple of minutes of talk.
00:01:12.000 It helps you remember what you're going to talk about.
00:01:17.000 Yeah, that would help for comedy.
00:01:18.000 I bet.
00:01:19.000 That's probably a good idea.
00:01:20.000 I should have a slideshow.
00:01:22.000 That would actually be a really good idea for particular points where you could show that you weren't lying.
00:01:28.000 Like, look, this is a real thing.
00:01:30.000 Right, yeah.
00:01:31.000 You have a reference there.
00:01:32.000 Because there's a couple of things that I'm talking about in my new set where I have to reassure people that I'm not making this up because it's so ridiculous.
00:01:42.000 Like, one of them was this woman who posed as a high school student.
00:01:47.000 She was a 25-year-old police officer, super attractive, and she posed as a high school student and convinced a young boy to sell her marijuana and then arrested him.
00:01:58.000 So, was it just an experiment?
00:02:00.000 No, it was a sting operation.
00:02:02.000 Wow.
00:02:03.000 And he was a regular kid.
00:02:04.000 He was an honor roll kid.
00:02:05.000 Oh, my God.
00:02:06.000 And now he's a felon.
00:02:07.000 That is crazy.
00:02:09.000 Yeah.
00:02:09.000 There it is.
00:02:10.000 Teen falls in love with undercover cop and marijuana sting gets arrested.
00:02:14.000 Yeah.
00:02:15.000 So this is one of them.
00:02:16.000 I would love to be able to put that up and go, see?
00:02:19.000 See?
00:02:20.000 I'm not...
00:02:20.000 Because you could...
00:02:21.000 I guess you could just make stuff up if you wanted to, you know...
00:02:23.000 But isn't that what comedians do?
00:02:24.000 They make stuff up?
00:02:25.000 I mean...
00:02:26.000 You can.
00:02:26.000 A lot.
00:02:27.000 But if you made something up like, hey, there was a story in the news and you just made it up, that sounds crazy.
00:02:31.000 I guess who cares if it's funny?
00:02:33.000 You know, if people just come to laugh, but...
00:02:34.000 Yeah, I guess you're right.
00:02:35.000 People, like comedians, usually make up personal stories.
00:02:38.000 Yes.
00:02:38.000 But sometimes they say it's true, and I'm like, it's so outrageous.
00:02:42.000 Is it really true?
00:02:43.000 Like, I don't know.
00:02:44.000 Because it's just so funny, you know, like some of the stories that some of these comedians tell, and I'm just like, how can this be true?
00:02:51.000 They said it was true, but it's like, is that part of comedy?
00:02:54.000 Can you do that?
00:02:55.000 Yes, you definitely can.
00:02:56.000 My friend Dom Herrera has a really funny joke about that.
00:02:58.000 He goes, here's a true story.
00:03:00.000 He goes, hey, how about you just make something up that's funny?
00:03:03.000 It doesn't have to be true, buddy.
00:03:05.000 Right.
00:03:06.000 But then they say it's true, so it's kind of like messing with you, because the whole time they're doing their bit, you're like, is that really true?
00:03:13.000 Because that's fucking hilarious.
00:03:14.000 Yeah.
00:03:15.000 Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not.
00:03:17.000 I guess it depends.
00:03:17.000 It depends on the person.
00:03:19.000 Yeah.
00:03:19.000 I assume everything in your notebook is true.
00:03:21.000 Well, I hope so.
00:03:23.000 You know the other thing that helps me?
00:03:25.000 So this helps, writing it down helps me, but also there's the running thing.
00:03:32.000 Running helps.
00:03:33.000 Actually, this was very interesting because a study just came out not long ago showing that if you run before, you're going to learn something.
00:03:43.000 Let's say you want to do something short-term recall, so you're going to go up on stage and say something.
00:03:49.000 I think?
00:04:17.000 Wow.
00:04:17.000 How did they work that out?
00:04:19.000 That's bizarre.
00:04:20.000 Well, it wasn't like they were testing for that.
00:04:23.000 They just found it out through, because they were just, you know, doing running before or after.
00:04:27.000 They're probably looking at just to see how it affects short and long-term memory recall.
00:04:31.000 And they were surprised to find out this was a study that was done.
00:04:34.000 I can't remember where it was done.
00:04:36.000 I know I tweeted about it not long ago, because it was like within this last month that it came out.
00:04:44.000 So while I'm learning new material throughout the day, then I go for a run in the evening, and then the next day I'll be able to recall it better, theoretically.
00:04:54.000 Now I'm subject to the placebo effect because I know about this.
00:04:56.000 I'm like, oh.
00:04:57.000 Right.
00:04:57.000 That's a problem.
00:04:58.000 Yeah.
00:04:58.000 I don't run normally, but I did a 5k on Monday.
00:05:03.000 Like, I don't run at all.
00:05:04.000 But a buddy of mine had a 5k race in Vegas, so I flew in for him.
00:05:08.000 And my friend Cameron Haynes.
00:05:10.000 And I ran it, and it was surprisingly hard.
00:05:13.000 Yeah.
00:05:13.000 I was like, with all the working out I do, I'll be like, it's only three miles.
00:05:16.000 It's like 3.1 or something.
00:05:18.000 3.1, yeah.
00:05:18.000 Like, how hard is that?
00:05:19.000 It's fucking hard.
00:05:20.000 It's not easy.
00:05:21.000 Yeah, no.
00:05:22.000 So, do you do any, like, aerobic exercise?
00:05:24.000 Yes.
00:05:24.000 Yeah.
00:05:24.000 Between kickboxing, jujitsu, and I do elliptical machine a lot, and I do a lot of yoga.
00:05:31.000 I've been trying to do yoga three times a week.
00:05:33.000 I'm not always successful at getting in there.
00:05:35.000 I got there last week three times a week, but I don't run.
00:05:39.000 So I figured, but all that stuff I do, I'm like, I'll be fine.
00:05:42.000 Nope, not really.
00:05:43.000 So you didn't train at all?
00:05:44.000 You just kind of like on the fly just did this 5k?
00:05:47.000 Yeah.
00:05:48.000 I saw you post something about this, and isn't Cameron, isn't he like some kind of crazy runner?
00:05:54.000 Oh, he's a freak.
00:05:55.000 Yeah, he's preparing right now for the MOAB race, which is 235 or 234 miles, something crazy like that.
00:06:03.000 And Jamie's a runner, so when Jamie shakes his head like that, you know it's really gross.
00:06:07.000 Yeah, that's incredible.
00:06:09.000 He's a nut.
00:06:10.000 He did 205 last year.
00:06:12.000 He did the Bigfoot 200, which is 205 miles, plus it has something insane like 55,000 feet of elevation change over the course of the entire race.
00:06:23.000 Because you're constantly going up and down and up and down.
00:06:26.000 And at some points in the race, it's so steep.
00:06:29.000 It's an outdoor race over Mount St. Helens.
00:06:32.000 And sometimes the terrain is so brutal that the top speed is two miles an hour.
00:06:36.000 He's going to be like one of those amazing super agers.
00:06:41.000 Like, that's just very mentally sharp when he's older.
00:06:45.000 Either that or he's not going to be...
00:06:46.000 That's been shown.
00:06:47.000 Like, it's been shown.
00:06:48.000 Like, if you...
00:06:48.000 Part of being a super-ager, like, being a super-ager means you're old, but you're physically fit, you're mentally sharp.
00:06:56.000 And mentally sharp is really the key thing, you know, because we start losing brain mass at, like, the age of 20. And by the time...
00:07:03.000 If you can actually make it to 100 years old, you lose, like, 20% of your brain mass.
00:07:07.000 Whoa.
00:07:08.000 They found that one of the keys to maintaining your brain mass is pushing past That comfortable zone physically so like you know exercise wise and also Mentally just you know, obviously like like learning new things and challenging yourself So,
00:07:27.000 you know, so when you're working out you don't do this kind of like You know half-ass thing right push yourself you have to really push yourself and that seems to be key for Becoming a super ager.
00:07:39.000 That's crazy that it works with your brain Why?
00:07:42.000 I mean, exercise has profound effects on your brain.
00:07:46.000 I mean, specifically, if you're looking at aerobic exercise, it's hard.
00:07:53.000 Aerobic exercise, as you said, doing a 5K, running three miles, I mean, you do a lot of training, and yet that was still hard for you, you know, because doing that type of aerobic exercise is difficult.
00:08:05.000 Studies have shown that even just like 20 to 30 minutes of aerobic exercise can, in healthy young men, increase serum BDNF, which is brain-derived neurotrophic factor.
00:08:16.000 This is a growth factor that is involved in growing new brain cells and in allowing the existing brain cells to survive.
00:08:23.000 So, you know, talking about combating brain atrophy, you're talking about combating the fact that your brain is atrophying starting at the age of 20. That's the way to do it.
00:08:32.000 Your brain starts to atrophy at 20?
00:08:34.000 At 20, you start to lose brain mass.
00:08:36.000 Oh my god, I'm doomed.
00:08:37.000 I know, it's really frightening.
00:08:39.000 20?
00:08:40.000 You start at 20. You're at your peak at 20?
00:08:42.000 Yes!
00:08:42.000 But I was so stupid at 20. I'm so much smarter than I was when I was 20. No, I agree.
00:08:47.000 I agree.
00:08:47.000 Even though I'm still stupid.
00:08:48.000 I mean, it's not necessarily like brain mass and intelligence.
00:08:51.000 I mean, I don't know if, you know, that...
00:08:54.000 There's definitely a courtlet, but when you start losing mass in your hippocampus, that's memory, learning, that part of the brain.
00:09:03.000 But there's just so many studies showing that exercise, aerobic exercise.
00:09:07.000 And also, it doesn't have to be aerobic.
00:09:09.000 You can do resistance training.
00:09:10.000 That sort of stuff also affects the brain as well.
00:09:13.000 But for me, I've been a runner since...
00:09:16.000 I've been on high school track, I guess.
00:09:18.000 A long time.
00:09:19.000 And for me, I've done a few races, I've done a marathon, and I don't feel like...
00:09:26.000 Marathons are my thing.
00:09:27.000 I felt like that was just really rough.
00:09:30.000 I'll run three miles and I will feel challenged.
00:09:33.000 If I push myself, I can do that.
00:09:35.000 I feel like doing that a couple times, three times a week is plenty for me.
00:09:39.000 But when I run, for me, I enter this state of daydreaming.
00:09:48.000 I get creative.
00:09:49.000 When I'm going on a three-mile run, I start thinking about things.
00:09:55.000 An important decision to make or something that's causing me some sort of anxiety, I go for a run and I feel like I can address that issue better.
00:10:05.000 And what's interesting is that there have been studies that have shown that going for a run, and specifically aerobic exercise, it activates the part of your brain involved in executive function, which helps you make decisions, you know, it's It's kind of like that overarching part of your brain that helps with all the planning,
00:10:24.000 long-term planning and all that.
00:10:25.000 I do.
00:10:26.000 I feel like if I go for a run, if something's bothering me, if I'm anxious, I always feel better, 100% of the time.
00:10:32.000 There's not a single time that I go for a run and I'm like, damn, I feel worse.
00:10:36.000 Why did I do that?
00:10:39.000 I feel like crap while I'm doing it.
00:10:41.000 I'm like, oh, this is awful.
00:10:42.000 Well, I feel like the human mind...
00:10:44.000 I mean, this is all just theoretical and my own theories.
00:10:47.000 I think the human mind is designed to confront serious things like predators and dangerous enemies.
00:10:56.000 And we don't really get much of that in this life.
00:10:59.000 So when...
00:11:00.000 A person is dealing with stress.
00:11:02.000 I think the mind is preparing for some things that don't exist.
00:11:06.000 So even if you can work things out logically, there still remains this residual effect of all these human reward systems that are kind of in place from the time we really did have to have all those reactions in place to deal with dangerous invaders or horrible Natural conditions,
00:11:28.000 you know, whatever they would be that we hardly ever experience anymore.
00:11:31.000 So like when I work out, if I have anything that's bothering me or troubling me, I think I get like a distorted perception of the danger of it or the physical reality.
00:11:43.000 Like it could be something real simple like I have An issue at work that I have to deal with like maybe I have to make a decision or maybe you know I'm stressed about something and I feel this no matter how much I work it out logically I still feel this physical like residual issue and that issue only seems to be resolved for me because I don't run with hitting the bag like for me It's a punching bag like it's which is really hard to do like when you when you do rounds like kickboxing rounds on a bag I have a
00:12:13.000 timer, and I can set it for three to five minutes.
00:12:16.000 Actually, it'll allow you to set it all the way down to one, and then it has, like, intervals.
00:12:20.000 So it gives me, like, 30 seconds.
00:12:22.000 Every 30 seconds, a buzzer will go off.
00:12:24.000 And it has two lights.
00:12:25.000 One light is yellow, and one light is blue.
00:12:28.000 And so the yellow light, I kind of...
00:12:32.000 I go at like 60-70% and then the blue light, I sprint.
00:12:36.000 So it's like sprint, try to catch your breath, sprint, try to catch your breath, and I do that for seven to eight rounds.
00:12:42.000 And when I do that, I don't give a fuck about anything.
00:12:46.000 After it's over, I'm like, who cares?
00:12:48.000 It's amazing what it does.
00:12:50.000 Because my mind still has all the same data.
00:12:53.000 I still understand whatever it is, whatever work-related nonsense.
00:12:58.000 I still understand all the issues about it.
00:13:01.000 And there's no new information.
00:13:03.000 But now the information is coming into my brain and it's going, oh, this isn't a foreign invader.
00:13:07.000 These aren't Vikings that are coming over in a fucking boat with a dragon's head at the front of it, swinging swords.
00:13:13.000 This is just some nonsense.
00:13:15.000 Whatever it is, you know, agent issue or manager issue or tax issue or whatever the fuck it is that seems so physically daunting before the exercise, but then afterwards when that aspect of the problem is alleviated, that stress, it's almost like our bodies are just like confused as to what these problems actually are.
00:13:33.000 I'm like, I love...
00:13:35.000 I love your interpretation of this because it's exactly the way that I would like to talk about why we need this type of stress.
00:13:45.000 Just like you said, I actually think that from an evolutionary perspective that we were...
00:13:53.000 Meant to be stressed.
00:13:55.000 We were meant to be outside, either hunting, tilling the land to prepare food, out bombarded by UVB radiation, which is stressful.
00:14:07.000 We were designed to have stress.
00:14:10.000 And what I mean by designed was we have genetic switches, which are supposed to be turned on.
00:14:17.000 These genetic switches that are activated by stress Yeah.
00:14:39.000 Foods with polyphenols or flavonoids or things that are also slightly stressful.
00:14:44.000 So this is kind of that concept of hormesis.
00:14:46.000 But I like the way you explained it because I really agree with you.
00:14:51.000 I think that humans were meant to be stressed.
00:14:54.000 Exercise is a form of that stress, and there's various different types of that stress.
00:14:59.000 And I think that we were supposed to switch on those genetic switches, those genes that are...
00:15:05.000 Helping us deal with stress.
00:15:07.000 So like you said, you have a problem, and I'm the same way with my run.
00:15:11.000 I'll have something that's bothering me.
00:15:14.000 I have to deal with whatever it is.
00:15:15.000 I mean, in my mind, I blow it up.
00:15:17.000 It may not even be that big of a deal.
00:15:19.000 But I go for a run.
00:15:22.000 With no new information, with nothing new, you know, like, I feel better.
00:15:27.000 And I think that's partly because I'm switching on all these, you know, stress response pathways that help me deal with the stress better, these anti-inflammatory pathways, just all this really good, you know, these good genetic switches that are being switched on.
00:15:42.000 So...
00:15:42.000 It totally makes sense.
00:15:44.000 I think this new time that we live in, I just don't necessarily think the body understands where the stress is coming from.
00:15:51.000 I think, you know, your body's a physical organism and nature is an absolutely brutal thing.
00:15:56.000 And it has been for us as well as for all these other animals forever.
00:15:59.000 But now for us, it's not really that brutal anymore.
00:16:02.000 And so all these mechanisms are in place to protect you and they don't get served.
00:16:07.000 And for me...
00:16:09.000 Martial arts has always been the best one to deal with.
00:16:12.000 Weightlifting is good too.
00:16:14.000 A good kettlebell workout does it too.
00:16:16.000 But the big ones for me are jujitsu and kickboxing.
00:16:20.000 Because jujitsu is really, really hard to do.
00:16:23.000 And it's also you're solving problems.
00:16:26.000 So I think jujitsu serves two purposes.
00:16:29.000 It's incredibly grueling as far as the sparring process of just rolling and competing with each other, even in a friendly role, like with a guy that I really like and we're laughing and we slap hands every time someone gets tapped out or whatever.
00:16:44.000 It's so difficult.
00:16:46.000 Your body's taxed.
00:16:48.000 So hard and your mind is taxed because you're dealing with countering you're dealing with Setting up moves you're dealing with your thinking several steps ahead and then you're you're adjusting those thoughts Based on whatever this person that you're sparring with is doing too.
00:17:05.000 So people get really really addicted to jujitsu for all the right reasons and one of the things that I found is Jujitsu people, for the most part, are way more mellow than most people would expect.
00:17:18.000 Way more chill about stuff.
00:17:20.000 Way less likely to respond to something in a dumb or an imbalanced way.
00:17:26.000 Because whatever your body, whatever these requirements are that we're addressing, your body has all that in Jujitsu.
00:17:35.000 But without the real...
00:17:36.000 Real violence, you know what I mean?
00:17:38.000 Like, no one's trying to kill you.
00:17:40.000 They're just trying to do this thing to you, and you're trying to do that thing to them.
00:17:44.000 And those things mimic actual combat, actual real life and death struggle in a friendly...
00:17:50.000 And also, it has this camaraderie built into it, too.
00:17:54.000 Because you kind of understand that you're going through this incredibly intense thing together, And you also understand that it takes a unique person to go through that and get past all these psychological hurdles, all these physiological hurdles.
00:18:10.000 And then you also are aware that this person understands like really clearly the kinship that you all share in having this experience together.
00:18:20.000 That's really neat.
00:18:21.000 I kind of relate.
00:18:22.000 I mean, not to the same degree, like what you're describing on a whole other level, but I experience something similar when I'm out surfing.
00:18:34.000 I'm getting the physical exercise, but I'm also tackling these fears of these big waves and Getting pulled under and drowning and getting tangled with my cord.
00:18:45.000 There's like a million.
00:18:46.000 And every time I do it, I always have that fear paddling out there.
00:18:49.000 But I get out there.
00:18:50.000 There's a group of surfers.
00:18:51.000 And we're all sitting out there.
00:18:52.000 And there is a sort of friendship that we develop out there.
00:18:56.000 Because we all love surfing.
00:18:58.000 And we know it's like, oh, here comes the wave.
00:19:01.000 We're helping each other.
00:19:02.000 Like, look, there's one on the outside.
00:19:04.000 Paddle out.
00:19:04.000 So it's kind of like...
00:19:08.000 Completely different level from what you're describing with jiu-jitsu, but still, I kind of can relate a little bit.
00:19:14.000 I don't know if it is a different level, and a lot of jiu-jitsu people surf as well.
00:19:19.000 I think there's a similar attraction to it, because also, you're a monster dodger.
00:19:23.000 You're out there in the monster soup.
00:19:26.000 Yeah.
00:19:28.000 That's what that is.
00:19:29.000 It's crazy that I still haven't...
00:19:31.000 You'd think that after doing it for so many years that I would get over that fear, but...
00:19:37.000 Man, those waves are so powerful.
00:19:40.000 Yeah, I mean, how can you get over that fear?
00:19:43.000 My friend Shane Dorian is a big wave surfer, and he's been on the podcast before, and he's a big-time bowhunter, too, and we talk all the time about this.
00:19:51.000 The way he describes it is just...
00:19:55.000 It's so attractive.
00:19:57.000 Like, I want to try it.
00:19:58.000 But there's not enough hours in a day for me.
00:20:01.000 I get too addicted to things.
00:20:03.000 And I have a fucking real fear of sharks.
00:20:06.000 It's real.
00:20:08.000 Sharks are scary.
00:20:09.000 They're really scary.
00:20:10.000 But they're real.
00:20:12.000 They're out there.
00:20:12.000 Oh, Jesus.
00:20:13.000 What is this, Jamie?
00:20:14.000 What?
00:20:14.000 Shane Dorian's big wave.
00:20:16.000 Oh my god!
00:20:18.000 My hands are sweating watching this.
00:20:19.000 He is out of his fucking mind.
00:20:21.000 Totally.
00:20:22.000 He's a legit maniac.
00:20:24.000 Wow.
00:20:25.000 How high would you say that wave is?
00:20:28.000 It's gotta be 50 feet, right?
00:20:30.000 Oh yeah.
00:20:30.000 It's in Hawaii.
00:20:31.000 It's called Jaws is the name of the wave.
00:20:33.000 Jaws.
00:20:33.000 Oh my god.
00:20:34.000 Look at the size of that.
00:20:36.000 That is so insane.
00:20:38.000 That's so insane.
00:20:39.000 I'm losing my mind just when I see these guys big waves surfing like this.
00:20:43.000 My heart starts racing.
00:20:44.000 I'm so anxious right now watching this.
00:20:46.000 Oh my god, it's so insane.
00:20:48.000 That's more than 50 feet, right?
00:20:50.000 I would say.
00:20:51.000 At the very peak of it.
00:20:52.000 It does look like it's more than a 50-foot face.
00:20:55.000 Now when it comes down, does it say there on the YouTube thing?
00:20:57.000 No.
00:20:57.000 When it comes down on you, I mean, it doesn't really matter.
00:21:00.000 If you got smushed, like if you fell and that came down on you, I mean, you're probably fucked, right?
00:21:06.000 That's the fear, yeah.
00:21:08.000 I mean, the biggest way I've ever surfed is like, Overhead, you know, like over time and a half overhead, so not even double overhead.
00:21:18.000 And that was like, I had a couple of scary moments where I was just tumbling during donuts and I couldn't find which way was up or down.
00:21:28.000 I've had one time, I was surfing out in this place in San Diego called Sunset Cliffs, and it's a reef break.
00:21:34.000 And it's really hard to get out there, so you have to time, you have to jump out after the wave breaks, and then you paddle out.
00:21:41.000 And there's all these kelp beds.
00:21:43.000 And I was surfing there this one time, and this was back when I was really dumb and didn't wear a leash because I was like, leashes, you know, I like to dance on my board and they get in my way, and so I didn't wear a leash.
00:21:53.000 But I, you know, there was a big wave and I was riding it and I wiped out and I like got caught in the kelp.
00:22:01.000 Oh, shit.
00:22:02.000 And so, it was like, you know, you have this moment where you panic, and that's really bad.
00:22:07.000 Like, panicking when you're, like, in the water, because panic takes, like, your energy.
00:22:11.000 And I panicked, and I was, because I thought I was going to die.
00:22:15.000 I was going to suffocate in this kelp bed.
00:22:18.000 Wow.
00:22:18.000 Trapped by seaweed.
00:22:20.000 Yes, I've had nightmares about it.
00:22:21.000 That stuck with me.
00:22:23.000 That was one of those moments that, you know, sort of traumatizing in a way.
00:22:28.000 How long did it take to get out of the kelp?
00:22:30.000 I don't remember.
00:22:31.000 I don't remember because it was just, I think the panic sort of, I just lost track.
00:22:35.000 It seemed like forever to me.
00:22:37.000 Like, I don't know how long it actually took.
00:22:40.000 And of course I lost my board and I had to swim in and I got cut up.
00:22:45.000 On the reef.
00:22:46.000 Yeah, reefs are brutal.
00:22:48.000 Reefs are brutal.
00:22:48.000 Yeah, I actually stick to beach breaks now, but like you said, I don't even get to surf that much anymore because I just don't have time.
00:22:56.000 So people that, when they surf breaks that are over those reefs, like, you just can't wipe out.
00:23:02.000 If you wipe out, you're going to go right into all that jagged shit, right?
00:23:05.000 Yeah, it depends on where the reef is.
00:23:07.000 Like, I was riding the wave in kind of in more, so I was closer to where the reef was.
00:23:12.000 But yes, you can.
00:23:14.000 It's dangerous.
00:23:15.000 Beginners should not ever go out on a reef, and I've seen many beginners out there.
00:23:19.000 But it's, yeah, it's definitely more dangerous.
00:23:22.000 Just feel all the scratches and cuts.
00:23:24.000 Ugh.
00:23:25.000 Yep.
00:23:26.000 Pretty brutal.
00:23:27.000 Do you have any shark encounters?
00:23:29.000 No.
00:23:30.000 The only sharks I've actually...
00:23:31.000 Actually, I shouldn't say that's not actually accurate.
00:23:33.000 I don't have any scary shark encounters.
00:23:37.000 I served for a long time in La Jolla, and there's a breeding ground there for...
00:23:44.000 Leopard sharks.
00:23:45.000 Which are not to be confused with tiger sharks.
00:23:47.000 Tiger sharks are definitely scary.
00:23:49.000 Leopard sharks are the ones that have the spots on them.
00:23:51.000 And they're really harmless.
00:23:53.000 Oh, really?
00:23:54.000 They're kind of like nurse sharks.
00:23:56.000 Yeah.
00:23:56.000 Oh, they don't eat?
00:23:57.000 They're not like...
00:23:58.000 They're like sand sharks.
00:23:59.000 They're just...
00:24:00.000 Swim around, no big deal.
00:24:02.000 Yeah, and they're really cool to look at.
00:24:03.000 But I've never actually known anyone that surfs in Southern California with all the surfers that I've known that has had an encounter in Southern California with a shark.
00:24:13.000 I do know people that have encountered them in the Bay Area.
00:24:16.000 Yeah, the Bay Area is a big breeding ground for great whites.
00:24:19.000 I would never surf there.
00:24:20.000 Really?
00:24:21.000 No, I would never surf there.
00:24:24.000 It's too scary?
00:24:25.000 Yeah, the sharks.
00:24:26.000 Look at you.
00:24:27.000 You say, yeah, the sharks, but it's all connected.
00:24:30.000 It's like, don't go outside.
00:24:31.000 There's a bad neighborhood somewhere.
00:24:33.000 Well, they can move around.
00:24:36.000 I guess just in my head, I sort of convinced myself that they're not coming to San Diego.
00:24:41.000 There's a video of a drone flying over Malibu where some guy takes a drone and he's flying over the Malibu surf and he's like, the drone is like maybe a few hundred yards away from some surfers and you see a big fucking great white just swimming along.
00:25:01.000 Just swimming along.
00:25:02.000 Don't show me this video, Jamie.
00:25:04.000 Drone shark footage.
00:25:05.000 So here's these people.
00:25:06.000 They're all on this board.
00:25:07.000 They came out.
00:25:08.000 We're just Southern California.
00:25:10.000 No big deal.
00:25:11.000 And when the drone keeps going further and further out, you see this fucking whopper shark that's not far away from these people.
00:25:20.000 We'll find it here.
00:25:21.000 Jamie will find it.
00:25:23.000 There's one right there.
00:25:24.000 Where is this?
00:25:26.000 Oh, nothing.
00:25:26.000 Just Malibu.
00:25:27.000 Oh, nothing.
00:25:29.000 Just a shark right there.
00:25:30.000 Look at that.
00:25:32.000 Right there.
00:25:33.000 What the fuck?
00:25:35.000 Damn it, Joe!
00:25:36.000 Don't show me this!
00:25:37.000 You know.
00:25:38.000 You're a smart woman.
00:25:39.000 You understand.
00:25:40.000 I do.
00:25:40.000 It's monster soup.
00:25:42.000 I try not to think about the sharks, though.
00:25:43.000 Oh, look.
00:25:44.000 There's two of them.
00:25:45.000 Interesting.
00:25:46.000 Look at that.
00:25:46.000 Surfer and two sharks.
00:25:48.000 No big deal, guys.
00:25:50.000 Yeah, that's pretty scary.
00:25:52.000 Yeah, it's supposed to be scary.
00:25:55.000 Just...
00:25:55.000 I don't know.
00:25:56.000 Apparently Catalina, that whole area outside of Catalina, is a crazy shark fishing mecca.
00:26:03.000 Where I have a friend of mine from Texas, and he traveled to Catalina Island, and he said, it is the most savage stretch of water in all of North America.
00:26:12.000 He said it's just infested with mako sharks.
00:26:15.000 And they go out there to catch mako sharks.
00:26:17.000 Wow.
00:26:18.000 I've never eaten Catalina.
00:26:19.000 Which are delicious.
00:26:19.000 Mako sharks are really, really good to eat, too.
00:26:21.000 They taste like swordfish.
00:26:22.000 They taste amazing.
00:26:23.000 Are they dangerous?
00:26:24.000 Oh yeah, they'll fuck you up.
00:26:26.000 They'll bite you.
00:26:27.000 But the thing about sharks now, it's because people are so silly, because of the awareness of shark fin soup, you know, because shark fin soup is, the practice of acquiring shark fins is really brutal and not sustainable at all.
00:26:43.000 It's really horrific.
00:26:44.000 And a lot of Asian fisheries engage in these unsustainable practices where they'll Let's go.
00:27:18.000 Tuna are in vastly diminished numbers than they were just a few decades ago.
00:27:23.000 If you talk to anyone who's a commercial fisherman or even a sport fisherman like these guys that run these charter boats, they'll tell you like you used to catch way more tuna.
00:27:32.000 It used to be way more prevalent.
00:27:33.000 I think that was something they addressed in that Jiro Dreams of Sushi movie as well, is that the commercial fishing is just brutalizing the tuna market.
00:27:41.000 But yet everybody still eats tuna, and they don't think twice about it.
00:27:44.000 Because this campaign against shark fin soup has made people really upset at people that catch sharks to eat.
00:27:52.000 Even people that eat meat.
00:27:54.000 We're so simplistic in our protesting and people just have it in their head that I heard you're not supposed to eat sharks anymore.
00:28:01.000 Are you catching sharks, you fucking asshole?
00:28:04.000 That is the one thing.
00:28:06.000 If you want to talk about fish that do no harm to human beings, sharks aren't on that list.
00:28:12.000 This is a scary goddamn animal and if you could eat that, I say kudos.
00:28:17.000 Kudos to you.
00:28:18.000 Because sharks are higher up on the food chain, don't they have higher mercury levels?
00:28:23.000 That's a good question.
00:28:24.000 Because I know like swordfish, like I would not eat swordfish.
00:28:28.000 Really?
00:28:28.000 Hell no.
00:28:29.000 No.
00:28:30.000 Yeah.
00:28:31.000 There is like, I wish I could remember the amount.
00:28:34.000 It's something like 150 micrograms per like four ounces or something.
00:28:39.000 So compare that to wild Atlantic salmon, which has like four micrograms.
00:28:44.000 Whoa.
00:28:45.000 Yeah, swordfish.
00:28:46.000 So the ones that are really safe to eat that I know of are the wild Alaskan salmon, cod.
00:29:00.000 Let's see.
00:29:02.000 White tuna is okay, but the albacore tuna has a little bit more mercury.
00:29:07.000 I think it's like, you know, twice as much or something.
00:29:10.000 But I'm a little...
00:29:13.000 Thinking that, you know, shark would be high on the mercury level.
00:29:16.000 That's interesting.
00:29:17.000 I'd like to find that out because I know that people have had issues that eat a tremendous amount of sushi.
00:29:22.000 People that eat sushi like every day, I know they have had issues with mercury in the past.
00:29:26.000 I actually had an arsenic issue.
00:29:30.000 With sardines.
00:29:31.000 Because sardines are bottom dwellers.
00:29:33.000 And I used to eat sardines all the time.
00:29:36.000 I love sardines.
00:29:37.000 Yeah, I love sardines too.
00:29:39.000 And if you eat canned sardines too much, I got some blood work done.
00:29:43.000 And the doctor was like, you have some significant amounts of arsenic in your system.
00:29:48.000 I'm like, am I being poisoned?
00:29:49.000 He's like, no, not that.
00:29:51.000 He goes, it's not like someone's trying to kill you, but it is like a dietary issue.
00:29:54.000 And then he asked me what I ate.
00:29:55.000 And I said, you know, we went through all my food.
00:29:57.000 He's like, nothing else?
00:29:58.000 He goes, what about seafood?
00:29:59.000 I go, oh, yeah, I eat seafood.
00:30:01.000 Oh, yeah, I eat a lot of sardines.
00:30:02.000 He's like, that's it.
00:30:03.000 I didn't know sardines accumulated arsenic.
00:30:07.000 Big time.
00:30:07.000 But I guess that makes sense.
00:30:08.000 So I backed off.
00:30:09.000 I didn't eat sardines at all for three months.
00:30:11.000 Came back, the issue was completely resolved.
00:30:13.000 Yeah.
00:30:14.000 You know what?
00:30:15.000 Besides sweat, you sweat out a lot of these heavy metals like mercury, arsenic.
00:30:22.000 Some of the beta-mecaptans in garlic, they chelate, they bind and chelate mercury and help pull it and excrete it out of your body through urine.
00:30:32.000 So whenever I make salmon or fish, which I actually do eat a lot of salmon, I probably eat it like two or three times a week, I always have fresh garlic with it.
00:30:42.000 Oh wow, that's amazing.
00:30:43.000 And salmon is outstanding too because it's so high in essential fatty acids, right?
00:30:47.000 Exactly.
00:30:48.000 It's really good for you.
00:30:49.000 Exactly, yeah.
00:30:49.000 It's really high in the omega-3 fatty acids, EPA and DHA. And it's got a modest amount of vitamin D. Whenever I'm sick, I eat giant cloves of garlic.
00:30:58.000 I'll just break it down to the point where it makes me feel horrible.
00:31:02.000 I'll have like a big glass of kombucha and I'll take like a lump of garlic and I'll break off like four or five cloves and I'll just take off the skin and chew those bitches down and chug it with kombucha.
00:31:14.000 It's awful.
00:31:15.000 Like sometimes it's painful.
00:31:17.000 Yeah, it's spicy.
00:31:18.000 As it's going down, like my system is like, what in the fuck is this?
00:31:23.000 Like I could feel it inside my body burning.
00:31:25.000 I love it.
00:31:26.000 I've done the same thing previously.
00:31:28.000 I mean, I don't do that anymore, but yeah, I mean, garlic is very powerful antimicrobial compounds in it.
00:31:34.000 So, I mean, that, you know, makes perfect sense.
00:31:37.000 The last time I did it, I had to take a knee.
00:31:40.000 Oh, a knee?
00:31:41.000 Yeah, I had to go down on a knee.
00:31:43.000 Really?
00:31:45.000 Yeah, like, I didn't actually go down, but what I did was I put both my arms on the counter, and I went down like this, like, ah!
00:31:54.000 Oh, because it was just burning going down.
00:31:57.000 I just was like, this is probably not even working.
00:32:00.000 I'm just being retarded.
00:32:02.000 Getting back to some of those pungent compounds that are in these plants, I mean, that kind of gets back to what we were talking about a minute ago with switching on those genetic switches that are...
00:32:15.000 Meant to be switched on.
00:32:16.000 We're supposed to eat these kinds of foods, garlic, broccoli, cauliflower, kale, these things that have that pungent mustard, that pungent taste.
00:32:28.000 These things are...
00:32:29.000 You know, various different polyphenols and compounds.
00:32:32.000 And one in particular I've become obsessed with lately is sulforaphane.
00:32:36.000 And that's present in most of the cruciferous family, like kale, broccoli, cabbage, brussel sprouts, wasabi, bok choy, just, you know, that whole family of vegetables.
00:32:48.000 Pretty much, I eat those vegetables a lot.
00:32:50.000 But I've become very obsessed with this compound that is...
00:32:55.000 It's actually...
00:32:56.000 Sulforaphane's not in the plant.
00:32:58.000 It gets...
00:32:59.000 Formed once you break the plant tissue once it's like chewed or crushed or blended or whatever chopped somehow, because it's stored as a precursor.
00:33:10.000 And then once the tissue gets, you know, chopped or whatever, then it forms sulforaphane.
00:33:16.000 And that's part of its, you know, It's plant response to try to ward off insects or whatever thing.
00:33:24.000 So that's why it forms.
00:33:26.000 But it actually, when we ingest it, it's really, really, really good for us.
00:33:30.000 So the sulforaphane in particular, which is actually really, really high in broccoli sprouts.
00:33:38.000 Have you ever had broccoli sprouts?
00:33:39.000 Yes, I have.
00:33:40.000 Yeah, so broccoli sprouts actually contain like 100 times more of it than mature broccoli.
00:33:45.000 Wow.
00:33:45.000 So it's like probably the best source of sulforaphane, dietary source of sulforaphane out there.
00:33:52.000 I saw on your Instagram that you make shakes with that, right?
00:33:55.000 I do.
00:33:56.000 Yeah, I've become sort of convinced that it's very powerful anti-aging and also powerful...
00:34:07.000 Nootropic in a way, I guess I could say.
00:34:09.000 And I can elaborate.
00:34:11.000 So I've been doing these shakes where you can sprout.
00:34:14.000 You can sprout your own sprouts at home for relatively cheap.
00:34:18.000 You just buy some organic broccoli seeds.
00:34:19.000 There I am.
00:34:21.000 You look like a weed dealer.
00:34:22.000 That's what everyone said on my Instagram.
00:34:24.000 3.5 pounds of broccoli sprouts, wink, wink.
00:34:28.000 That's what they're calling it, these kids.
00:34:30.000 Believe it or not, though, if you freeze them, so those bags are going in the freezer, when you freeze them, because when you freeze the plant, the tissue also gets broken, it actually doubles in some cases.
00:34:45.000 You can up to double the amount of sulforaphane because it has a longer time to form this.
00:34:49.000 So you can actually have a more concentrated...
00:34:52.000 I learned that the hard way, but...
00:34:55.000 What hard way?
00:34:57.000 Well, I mean, just because it's so pungent and powerful that if you make a shake with it and you're doing...
00:35:02.000 Like, at first I was doing fresh shakes, and then we started freezing them, and I was making shakes that were, you know, from previously frozen sprouts, and it's like I needed, like, half the dose, you know, to feel the same thing.
00:35:15.000 What do you feel?
00:35:17.000 Yeah.
00:35:18.000 Um, okay, so I guess I should probably, you know, it's kind of just like, like when you drink coffee, you know how you kind of just you feel a little happy and good, and you feel a little more alert.
00:35:33.000 Sort of like that.
00:35:34.000 And the thing is, is that it's been shown.
00:35:38.000 So there have been clinical studies in humans.
00:35:41.000 And this is very interesting because it's been shown, like if you give it, you give, you know, even just a small amount.
00:35:48.000 I think it was like between 7 to 30 milligrams of sulforaphane a day to young adults with autism.
00:35:56.000 Yeah.
00:35:57.000 It improved their autistic scores by like 34%.
00:36:00.000 And autistic scores, there's a range of different tests that are done to measure different various brain functions.
00:36:09.000 But it improved this in these autistic individuals by like 34%.
00:36:14.000 The same was done in a pilot study for people with schizophrenia where it improved their symptoms.
00:36:20.000 So just their brain functions better.
00:36:22.000 Wow.
00:36:23.000 Yeah.
00:36:23.000 So, and this is like pretty, the results were so powerful that, you know, this was done at Johns Hopkins.
00:36:30.000 The study is now being repeated, you know, because it's like, this is what is going on here.
00:36:36.000 Like, how is this affecting the brain?
00:36:37.000 And I think, you know, if you look at a lot of the animal studies, there's lots and lots of animal studies that have been done, which are, you know, people aren't quite as convinced because it's like, well, how much of this relates to humans, but it's been shown to Be as effective as the antidepressant Prozac in alleviating depression in mice.
00:36:55.000 And they do all these battery of tests where they stress the mice out and make them depressed and social defeat.
00:37:00.000 And they hang them by their tail.
00:37:02.000 It's actually just kind of gnarly.
00:37:04.000 And then there's a bunch of tests they do to see if they're depressed.
00:37:09.000 You give them, you know, your placebo, you give them Prozac, or you give them the broccoli sprout extract, and it performed just as well.
00:37:16.000 So it helps with depression.
00:37:17.000 It's been shown to help with neurodegenerative diseases, all sorts of things.
00:37:21.000 But the point is, I think that the reason it's actually affecting all these brain functions, and why even, you know, someone like me may notice a small effect from brain Eating them is because it has very profound effect on inflammation.
00:37:37.000 And that is because, as I mentioned, it switches on one of those switches that was meant to be switched on, a pathway called NRF2 in our body that controls over 200 genes.
00:37:48.000 And sulforaphane is the most potent, naturally occurring compound that we've discovered yet that activates this pathway.
00:37:56.000 So it's no other plant compound, no other naturally occurring plant compound Can activate this pathway as potent as sulforaphane.
00:38:03.000 And NRF2 is, I mean, it's been shown in multiple studies to be involved in delaying aging.
00:38:10.000 And a lot of that happens through lowering tons of different, you know, inflammatory genes, activating anti-inflammatory genes, lowering oxidative stress, all these glutathione-related enzymes.
00:38:21.000 It helps with detoxifying compounds that we're exposed to on a daily basis, like Carcinogens and things.
00:38:26.000 So I think that we're having a low level of this like inflammation stuff that we're constantly being exposed to and it affects the brain.
00:38:33.000 So if you get a dose of this, you may notice a small effect.
00:38:38.000 Now with someone that has autism or schizophrenia, inflammation and oxidative stress have been shown in previous studies, multiple previous studies to To play a role in the etiology of those diseases.
00:38:49.000 So I think that's how it may be affecting the brain.
00:38:53.000 But it's not just affecting the brain.
00:38:55.000 And probably one of the most well-known functions of sulforaphane is that it's a very powerful cancer-preventative compound.
00:39:05.000 So it's been shown to prevent cancer.
00:39:08.000 For example, men that had prostate cancer, when they were given 60 milligrams of sulforaphane, A day for, I think it was like a month.
00:39:18.000 I don't remember exactly how long.
00:39:19.000 But it lowered, it slowed the doubling rate of a tumor biomarker called prostate-specific antigen, PSA, which is what is usually measured when men have prostate cancer.
00:39:30.000 You measure the progression of it because it has a doubling rate.
00:39:33.000 It doubles every so often.
00:39:34.000 But it slowed that doubling rate by 86%, which is pretty profound.
00:39:40.000 Of course, there's lots and lots of associative studies that have shown cruciferous vegetables, you know, If you eat more of them, you have lower risk of bladder, ovarian, prostate, kidney, just all sorts of cancers.
00:39:51.000 But the clinical trials, I think, are what's really telling because you're giving someone this compound and it's lowering a tumor progression marker by 86%.
00:40:02.000 There's another study which is really interesting also, and this is kind of like...
00:40:08.000 It really got me interested.
00:40:10.000 I'm not sure if other people are interested in it.
00:40:12.000 But we're exposed to compounds from air pollution.
00:40:18.000 So living in Los Angeles, for example, is probably definitely one of the places that you're going to be more exposed to some of these airborne carcinogens.
00:40:27.000 So benzene is one of them, aquiline.
00:40:29.000 These things are in the air.
00:40:30.000 We're breathing them in.
00:40:33.000 To some degree, we have benzene in our system.
00:40:36.000 And it is a carcinogen.
00:40:37.000 It's been shown to Cause cancer specifically linked to leukemias.
00:40:42.000 Smokers get a ton of it because it's in cigarettes.
00:40:47.000 So cigarette smokers are like really loaded up with benzene.
00:40:50.000 But there was a study where people were given like 40 milligrams of the sulforaphane in the form of a broccoli sprout drink a day for like a week.
00:41:00.000 And starting on day one of drinking this drink, They excreted 61% of the benzene on day one.
00:41:08.000 61% of benzene was just coming out of their urine, as you measure in metabolites.
00:41:12.000 And I was like, wow, that is amazing.
00:41:14.000 Getting rid of some of that stuff, because I definitely want to get rid of the benzene and all that stuff that I'm being exposed to.
00:41:22.000 So that really got my attention too, because it was just so significant and a profound effect just after one day.
00:41:29.000 Um, so that, that was another sort of thing that got me really into it.
00:41:33.000 And then the aging stuff where, you know, it's been shown.
00:41:36.000 Um, so inflammation has been identified as a key ager of aging.
00:41:41.000 Taking sulforaphane has been shown to lower inflammatory markers in people, um, by like 20% C-reactive protein, other inflammatory markers.
00:41:50.000 Of course, there's like dozens of studies in animals that have been done, but I'm sort of, I think the human studies are more interesting to talk about.
00:41:56.000 So definitely more relevant.
00:41:59.000 And then also it's been shown to affect cardiovascular health because of the inflammation, I think.
00:42:05.000 So type 2 diabetics that were given some dose, I think it was something around 40 milligrams as well of sulforaphane, they were given this daily and for a month, for four weeks, and it lowered their triglycerides by 20%.
00:42:18.000 It lowered their atherogenic index, which is like measuring, you know, The dangerous type of LDL, small dense LDLs, or glycerides, looking at all these things, it lowered that by 50%.
00:42:28.000 Improved their blood sugar by almost 20%.
00:42:31.000 I'm trying to get my mom on this.
00:42:35.000 My mom, she definitely has got high triglycerides.
00:42:41.000 I'm really convinced, and then there's been studies in animals that's just shown that it delays aging.
00:42:47.000 I think it's one of those things, you get it in kale, and I think that I've been getting a good dose of it.
00:42:54.000 I've been drinking kale smoothies pretty regularly since probably like 2010. Yeah, probably about six or seven years.
00:43:03.000 And I do feel like it's like helped...
00:43:10.000 I think that I've found something to take it to another level where I think that I'm pretty convinced that if I continue taking the sulforaphane, I think it will absolutely affect the way I age.
00:43:24.000 And I think it will affect my brain aging as well.
00:43:26.000 I mean, it's been shown, at least in animal studies, to affect brain aging, traumatic brain injury.
00:43:31.000 I mean, if you administer it after traumatic brain injury, it improves outcome It improves brain swelling and all that by 50%.
00:43:39.000 Just all sorts of nons.
00:43:41.000 I have a video.
00:43:42.000 I did a 45-minute video where I'm literally just talking about this for 45 minutes.
00:43:48.000 Is it on YouTube?
00:43:49.000 It's on YouTube, yeah.
00:43:52.000 This research took many months.
00:43:55.000 It's a 16-page article I wrote.
00:43:58.000 And I hope to get published.
00:43:59.000 I think I'm going to submit it for publication because it's just it was a lot of work.
00:44:02.000 And I haven't seen anything in the literature as comprehensive covering every base.
00:44:07.000 Like I just I tried to cover everything that was like a good study, you know, that was important.
00:44:12.000 And so so and then I flew out to Johns Hopkins recently, I was invited to give a talk there.
00:44:19.000 And I met, it just so happens, the guy who discovered that, first of all, the guy who discovered sulforaphane is there, but he's much older.
00:44:27.000 I met with someone who trained with him, who discovered that broccoli sprouts are the best source of sulforaphane.
00:44:33.000 So he made that discovery back in the 90s.
00:44:36.000 And I interviewed him and he just went on and on and on and talked about sulforaphane, like in addition to like what I had already talked about on one of the videos I did.
00:44:45.000 And he actually had some really interesting stuff to talk about in terms of like, you know, you, so in order to get the sulforaphane, you have to, the plant has to be crushed or chopped.
00:44:56.000 And that's because it has an enzyme in it called myrosinase.
00:45:00.000 And myrosinase is heat sensitive.
00:45:03.000 So when you steam your broccoli, when you boil your kale, when you saute your kale, any of that stuff, unfortunately, you're inactivating myrostanase.
00:45:13.000 And so you're not getting as much sulforaphane.
00:45:16.000 You're getting dramatically less, almost non-existent.
00:45:21.000 The precursor, glucoraphanin, is still in that plant.
00:45:25.000 So you're getting the precursor.
00:45:28.000 And we do have some bacteria, some types of bifidobacteria in our gut that contain the myrosinase enzyme, highly variable from individual to individual.
00:45:37.000 So you can convert some of that to sulforaphane.
00:45:41.000 But what was interesting that he mentioned is you can actually sprinkle mustard powder, like mustard powder, You buy after you saute your kale or after you steam your vegetables or...
00:45:54.000 If you cook, if you apply heat to any of your cruciferous vegetables afterwards, you put the mustard powder on, it has active myrosinase in it and it's pretty...
00:46:03.000 The myrosinase in the mustard seed is more heat-stable.
00:46:08.000 So you can actually convert your precursor into the sulforaphane by adding the mustard powder.
00:46:14.000 And I was like, that is a really great thing to know.
00:46:17.000 Because now I'm like...
00:46:18.000 Because I do cook a lot of...
00:46:19.000 I saute kale all the time.
00:46:22.000 I steam my broccoli, put some butter and salt and pepper.
00:46:25.000 That's how I eat my broccoli.
00:46:26.000 So very useful.
00:46:28.000 Sorry to interrupt, but...
00:46:29.000 Are there any compounds in kale or broccoli or anything else that make them more bioavailable when you do cook them?
00:46:36.000 Yeah.
00:46:37.000 I mean, a lot of the minerals and stuff in it, like magnesium, the calcium, those things become more bioavailable when you cook them.
00:46:44.000 And so you would get that benefit plus if you just cooked it and then added the mustard to it.
00:46:50.000 Right.
00:46:50.000 But when the mustard seed powder, you have to make sure it's like...
00:46:54.000 What I like to do is sprinkle a little bit on my hand and lick it.
00:46:57.000 It has to have that bite.
00:46:59.000 If it doesn't have the bite, it's been degraded.
00:47:02.000 It's been on the shelf for too long.
00:47:03.000 It's been in Amazon shelves for too long.
00:47:05.000 Whatever.
00:47:07.000 It has to have that mustard bite to it.
00:47:10.000 Could you just use regular mustard?
00:47:12.000 I don't think so.
00:47:13.000 No.
00:47:13.000 Mustard seed.
00:47:15.000 I think the mustard seed.
00:47:16.000 Yeah.
00:47:17.000 So that was a very useful, like, you know, because the sulforaphane.
00:47:22.000 It's really good, Joe.
00:47:23.000 I really am trying to, like, you know, get people to...
00:47:26.000 I think the more people that get the sulforaphane in their life, I think they're going to be healthier.
00:47:30.000 I think it can help prevent cancer, lower inflammation.
00:47:33.000 I mean, just so many different good things.
00:47:35.000 So smokers, for God's sake, if you're a smoker...
00:47:38.000 They should be taking sulfur.
00:47:40.000 They should be drinking those shakes I'm drinking every day because they are getting so much benzene.
00:47:46.000 So two questions about this.
00:47:48.000 One, where does someone get broccoli sprouts?
00:47:52.000 Where would you get that?
00:47:54.000 Well, so the thing is that you can buy broccoli sprouts already sprouted at Whole Foods or Sprouts or whatever your local grocery store is.
00:48:07.000 Most grocery stores have broccoli sprouts.
00:48:10.000 I've seen alfalfa sprouts.
00:48:12.000 It's very rare that you find broccoli sprouts, isn't it?
00:48:15.000 They're at Whole Foods.
00:48:16.000 They're at Sprouts.
00:48:16.000 But the problem, here's the problem with buying sprouts.
00:48:22.000 They're very prone to bacterial contamination.
00:48:26.000 E. coli, the longer they sit on the shelf.
00:48:29.000 And a lot of times when you go into these grocery stores, they're sitting on the shelf.
00:48:33.000 And so they're probably likely a little more contaminated with E. coli than if you were to sprout them yourself and get them fresh.
00:48:42.000 So you can buy them.
00:48:46.000 And they also charge...
00:48:49.000 It's like five bucks for a little package of it, you know?
00:48:53.000 And that's one shake, right?
00:48:54.000 Yeah, it's one shake.
00:48:56.000 Whereas you can spend 20 bucks and get a pound of seeds.
00:48:59.000 And so how do you grow it?
00:49:01.000 Well, there's lots of different methods.
00:49:04.000 Previously, we used to do these hemp bags where you put the seeds in the bag and you add some water.
00:49:12.000 You basically just keep adding water to them and let it drip and they sprout within four days.
00:49:17.000 Then we started doing this jar method where now we have mason jars with a lid on top that has little holes that are big enough for water to come out, obviously, but not for the seeds to come out.
00:49:27.000 And so, you know, you get these jars and you add water, let it sit for like six hours and then dump it out.
00:49:32.000 And then you just, after that, you continually just add the water and dump it out and add the water and dump it out and kind of leave it tilted so that the water isn't just like, you don't want, you know, the water just sitting in there so that it's like...
00:49:43.000 Growing bacteria and stuff.
00:49:45.000 So you tilt the water.
00:49:47.000 So you just want it wet?
00:49:48.000 Is that what it is?
00:49:49.000 Yeah.
00:49:49.000 And it really just takes like four days and then you have sprouts.
00:49:52.000 The only thing is you do have to be clean.
00:49:56.000 If your counter's all dirty and your hands are dirty and all the dishware you're using is dirty, then you're probably going to contaminate them.
00:50:03.000 You have to be a little fastidious about the way you sprout these things.
00:50:08.000 But I think once you're aware of that, then it's okay.
00:50:12.000 The other thing is, and this is something that I'm going to talk to the expert.
00:50:17.000 His name's Dr. Jed Fahey.
00:50:18.000 I recently interviewed him on my podcast.
00:50:21.000 He mentioned something to me that caught my interest.
00:50:24.000 He said the seed itself, the broccoli seed itself, has the enzyme, it has the precursor to sulforaphane, and if you If you break or crush the seed, or chew the seed, then you're actually getting sulforaphane.
00:50:37.000 So you can actually crush up the seed in a coffee grinder or something, and take a shot of it.
00:50:43.000 But the thing is, is there's been no research doing this method.
00:50:48.000 So all these studies that I just talked about in humans, those were all done from broccoli sprout powder extract, from the sprouts.
00:50:55.000 Powder extract?
00:50:56.000 Is this something you could buy as a supplement?
00:50:58.000 Great question.
00:50:59.000 So, well, the powder extracts were mostly made by researchers.
00:51:03.000 In fact, Jed has supplied a lot of different universities with the extract himself.
00:51:11.000 Supplement-wise, that's the other thing that he really sort of illuminated for me because he's actually been measuring...
00:51:18.000 There are certain supplements that are on the market and if they actually have what they say they have.
00:51:24.000 And so because myrosinase is so unstable, it is hard to make a supplement with sulforaphane.
00:51:30.000 There is one supplement, only one, that I know of that actually has sulforaphane, the actual active compound, and that's called prostaphane.
00:51:39.000 And that's only available in France.
00:51:42.000 By the way, I have no affiliation with any of these supplement companies at all.
00:51:45.000 I'm just...
00:51:47.000 It's only available in France.
00:51:48.000 It's only available in France.
00:51:50.000 And so he actually tested that one.
00:51:53.000 And people that were given prostaphane, the bioavailability of the sulfur-urphane was 70%.
00:51:59.000 So 70% of it ended up like in their bloodstream.
00:52:03.000 There's another supplement called Avmacol.
00:52:06.000 Avamacol has glucoraphanin plus myrosinase in it.
00:52:10.000 So it doesn't have the sulforaphane.
00:52:11.000 It has the two compounds that can form sulforaphane, but it has them together.
00:52:16.000 That has been tested and that was about 40% bioavailability.
00:52:22.000 So about 40% of it was you were actually getting sulforaphane 40% of the time.
00:52:26.000 And that was also tested.
00:52:29.000 There's another supplement and that is available in the U.S. There's another supplement By Thorne, called Crucera, I think.
00:52:37.000 And Crucera only has the precursor, no enzyme.
00:52:40.000 So you're totally relying on your gut bacteria.
00:52:43.000 And some people, it's very variable.
00:52:45.000 So that only had like a 10% bioavailability.
00:52:49.000 Other than that, those are the three supplements that he really could...
00:52:53.000 And this is a study he just published recently that he got behind.
00:52:57.000 I asked him about a few others because I'd actually been taking...
00:53:00.000 There's another one called Broccomax by Jaro.
00:53:05.000 And he kind of was like...
00:53:06.000 I asked him about it and he was kind of like...
00:53:09.000 It has some of what it says in there, but not all, you know, and the problem is, is that these supplements, I mean, there's a lot of a lot of the times like he was telling me like, geez, like seven out of 10 times these supplements had like cloverleaf in them,
00:53:24.000 when they're supposed to have like, the cruciferous, you know, precursor glucoraphanin.
00:53:29.000 So it's just like, it's kind of disgusting, how supplement companies How supplement companies are totally just putting all this cloverleaf and whatever.
00:53:38.000 And there was a study that came out a couple years ago on this.
00:53:41.000 75% of all these herbal echinacea, all these compounds that are marketed for whatever, don't actually even contain echinacea or whatever they say they contain.
00:53:54.000 It's really kind of bad.
00:53:56.000 Yeah, it's a giant issue.
00:53:57.000 And if you're a company that sells that stuff, a lot of times you're not even...
00:54:03.000 We're good to go.
00:54:31.000 Oh, yeah, that's true.
00:54:33.000 There's also that.
00:54:34.000 Yeah, I mean, there's just you got to find a reliable brand, you know, and I think, you know, Thorne.
00:54:40.000 Thorne seems to be a pretty reliable one that I've seen multiple different, you know, times where scientists are like, yeah, we've tested that.
00:54:50.000 It's more expensive, but they seem to be pretty reliable.
00:54:53.000 So it seems like the best method is to sprout your own broccoli sprouts, though.
00:54:57.000 Yeah.
00:54:57.000 I think that's the best method.
00:54:59.000 And it seems very cost-effective, too, right?
00:55:01.000 Exactly.
00:55:01.000 It's cost-effective.
00:55:02.000 You don't have to have extra cash to buy all these expensive supplements, because all the ones I just mentioned that actually are effective and have what they say, they're not cheap.
00:55:11.000 So those bags that you had in that Instagram photo, is that all sprouts that you had made yourself?
00:55:17.000 Yeah.
00:55:17.000 How many mason jars did it take?
00:55:18.000 Six.
00:55:19.000 Six.
00:55:19.000 That was six.
00:55:20.000 Oh, wow.
00:55:21.000 That's not that bad.
00:55:21.000 Yeah.
00:55:22.000 I mean, they get really dense, too.
00:55:25.000 They fill up.
00:55:25.000 Inside the jar?
00:55:26.000 Yeah.
00:55:27.000 Yeah, I have other pictures somewhere on there with the jars, but I'm thinking I might just do a quick sprouting video.
00:55:33.000 Yeah, do it.
00:55:34.000 Just like a five or six minute...
00:55:36.000 I'm already going in my head about how I'm going to start sprouting.
00:55:39.000 Awesome.
00:55:40.000 And they're good.
00:55:40.000 You don't have to do...
00:55:42.000 I always sort of take it to the next level.
00:55:44.000 I make my shake and it's like...
00:55:46.000 But they're good on salads.
00:55:48.000 I mean, you can sprinkle them on anything.
00:55:52.000 I really like them on salads quite a bit.
00:55:55.000 That's amazing.
00:55:56.000 Now, there you go.
00:55:58.000 Oh, wow.
00:55:59.000 There we go.
00:56:00.000 Yeah.
00:56:01.000 So those are mason jars that have holes already in them.
00:56:06.000 Yeah.
00:56:06.000 Yeah.
00:56:07.000 So you can actually buy the sprouting kit.
00:56:09.000 So these actually we found, these are the old lids we were using.
00:56:11.000 We actually found better lids that have even smaller holes because some of the seeds were getting out of this.
00:56:17.000 But this came as a kit, a sprouting kit.
00:56:20.000 You can buy on Amazon.
00:56:21.000 It has like a little wooden thing to set the mason jars in.
00:56:24.000 So they're like tilted and you can like, you know, drip the water out.
00:56:27.000 They came with those lids.
00:56:29.000 Wow.
00:56:30.000 But then we did some experimentation and found other lids that are superior to those.
00:56:34.000 But those are pretty good.
00:56:34.000 How much maintenance is involved in making these?
00:56:37.000 Like how often do you have to tend to these things?
00:56:39.000 Oh, it's just like after the first initial like six-hour water, you know, where you let them sit, it's like twice a day in the morning and evening.
00:56:47.000 Dump water on them.
00:56:48.000 But you have to do it every day.
00:56:50.000 And how many days does it take to grow that amount?
00:56:51.000 That was about five days, I think.
00:56:54.000 Four or five days.
00:56:55.000 So, for a guy like me, who goes away on weekends a lot, I'd have to make sure that I'm home for a stretch before I make something like that.
00:57:02.000 So, you could have harvested...
00:57:04.000 Actually, so here's the thing.
00:57:05.000 The longer you're letting them sprout...
00:57:07.000 So, I was just trying to maximize.
00:57:08.000 I want more dents, you know, because I wanted to get my bang for my buck.
00:57:13.000 But you can actually...
00:57:14.000 You could have harvested those probably early, like three days, three and a half days.
00:57:19.000 Oh, wow.
00:57:20.000 And actually, the longer you wait, the more you have to be careful with contamination, too.
00:57:24.000 So it's like, it's better probably even to harvest them sooner, freeze them, so they're like, you know, no bacteria.
00:57:31.000 You know, that way you're just, you're safe.
00:57:33.000 And you're just putting them in like Ziploc storage bags?
00:57:35.000 Yeah.
00:57:36.000 Do you ever vacuum seal things and freeze them?
00:57:38.000 No, I should.
00:57:39.000 I do that with meat.
00:57:41.000 Yeah, it's a good idea.
00:57:42.000 I mean, that wouldn't, that would be a good idea to do.
00:57:46.000 Wow, that's really intense stuff.
00:57:48.000 The other question that I wanted to have to talk to you about was when you were saying schizophrenia and how sulforaphane can prevent or somehow mitigate the effects of schizophrenia, do you think that there's a possible correlation between a lot of these mental health diseases and a lack of proper nutrition?
00:58:10.000 Oh, absolutely.
00:58:11.000 I think that a lack of proper nutrition is a huge component of a lot of mental diseases and psychological diseases in general.
00:58:21.000 In fact, inflammation is now, it's really been identified as playing a causal role in depression.
00:58:32.000 And that's something that, you know, So, with the depression thing, here's kind of a funny story.
00:58:39.000 I mean, it's not that funny.
00:58:40.000 It's actually kind of eye-opening, but...
00:58:43.000 So the CDC has estimated that about 11% of Americans are on some sort of antidepressant.
00:58:51.000 11%.
00:58:52.000 It's a lot.
00:58:53.000 So here's the story behind that.
00:58:55.000 That's so crazy.
00:58:56.000 It is.
00:58:56.000 And I know several people that are on them or have taken them or, you know, whatever.
00:59:03.000 But the story behind that is kind of interesting because...
00:59:07.000 Back in the early 70s, a lot of these clinical trials were being done on antidepressants with people that had depression.
00:59:17.000 And at that time, people that had depression that were involved in these trials were people that were severely depressed and hospitalized.
00:59:26.000 So they were so depressed that they had been hospitalized for depression.
00:59:29.000 I don't know many people that have been hospitalized for depression nowadays.
00:59:32.000 So they were hospitalized for depression.
00:59:35.000 And then they were given either a placebo or antidepressant.
00:59:38.000 And in multiple trials, you know, FDA had reviewed these trials.
00:59:43.000 70% of the time, the antidepressant...
00:59:46.000 So the antidepressant worked in 70% of the patients compared to 30% of the patients where placebo worked, right?
00:59:52.000 70% is pretty good if you're comparing that to 30% placebo.
00:59:56.000 It's like, well, that's efficacious.
00:59:57.000 That seems to work, right?
01:00:00.000 What then happened after those trials were done, starting in the 70s and like 80s, is that the clinical diagnostic manual, it's called the DSM, at that time it was the DSM-2, they changed all their diagnosis,
01:00:15.000 you know, markers and symptoms for depression, and they expanded it a great, great deal.
01:00:23.000 And they then called depression major depressive disorder.
01:00:27.000 So it became this sort of like broader, you know, disease, quote unquote, where it was like, it's not just these people that are severely hospitalized, it's people that are feeling depressed and anxious and sad or what, you know, it's just basically,
01:00:43.000 you're getting a bigger group of people.
01:00:47.000 I think?
01:01:06.000 What was found was quite shocking, and that was that only 40% of people were now responding to antidepressants, SSRIs, other norepinephrine, reuptake inhibitors, whatever the standard of care is, compared to 30% placebo.
01:01:20.000 So now you're talking about antidepressants performing only 10% better than placebo.
01:01:28.000 It's like, okay.
01:01:30.000 So clearly, it's not that the antidepressants don't ever work.
01:01:34.000 It's just that we are now overprescribing them to people that, you know, have this major depressive disorder.
01:01:41.000 And they're not working on people that weren't, you know, the initial group of people that were, like, severely depressed and hospitalized.
01:01:48.000 You know, so it's like, okay, that's a big problem.
01:01:52.000 Because they're, I mean, they're prescribed like, I mean, I just...
01:01:59.000 Like, I can't even believe it.
01:02:00.000 You know, I just have so many personal stories, people I know, you know, that have gone, you know, going through some crisis, some personal...
01:02:07.000 Yeah, a breakup.
01:02:08.000 A divorce, whatever.
01:02:09.000 And all of a sudden they're giving you some crazy drug.
01:02:12.000 All of a sudden they're giving you some crazy drug and they change the personality of the person and I'm just like, please get off of this.
01:02:17.000 Yeah.
01:02:18.000 And like I said, it's not like they don't ever work.
01:02:21.000 It's just that I think once the clinical diagnostic book changed the whole procedure for diagnosing depression and became a major depressive disorder, All of a sudden you're getting people that are now having just whatever stressful event in their life that's making them a little depressed at the time,
01:02:40.000 which everyone's probably experienced, are now being given this antidepressant when they don't really need it.
01:02:46.000 And there are effects that are not good with taking some of these antidepressants.
01:02:51.000 Well, there's a big effect on libido.
01:02:53.000 Yeah, on libido.
01:02:54.000 Yeah, I know a lot of people that have taken it where their sex drive just goes away.
01:02:58.000 Yeah, there's actually a gene polymorphism, a variation in a gene that is linked to that.
01:03:05.000 So people that have it have an even more severe effect, where they really have sexual dysfunction in response to an infection.
01:03:12.000 Yeah, it just shuts down.
01:03:14.000 Yeah, it doesn't happen to everyone quite as much, but there's a percentage of people that it really, really affects.
01:03:20.000 And there's lots of other, you know, things.
01:03:22.000 I mean, it's just, it's changing your brain chemistry.
01:03:24.000 Right.
01:03:24.000 And it's not exact.
01:03:26.000 It's not an exact science.
01:03:28.000 No.
01:03:28.000 There's a lot of experimentation going on with it.
01:03:30.000 I had a friend of mine who had gone to several doctors, and they had prescribed a bunch of different things to him, and he was severely depressed, and eventually they gave up.
01:03:39.000 And he had to find a much better doctor that his care, whatever his insurance package, would not pay for.
01:03:46.000 And once he found that doctor, then the doctor was just more knowledgeable about what potential Different ones.
01:03:56.000 I mean, I don't know how many different ones there are, but they got him on something that actually worked.
01:04:00.000 He's off it now.
01:04:01.000 It took him a while, and then, you know, he eventually got happy.
01:04:04.000 And then, oddly enough, which is an interesting thing, people always want to connect depression.
01:04:11.000 They want to say depression is a disease.
01:04:14.000 And they want to say it almost like, oh, you got herpes.
01:04:17.000 You know what I mean?
01:04:18.000 It's like, well, you've got depression.
01:04:19.000 Oh, well, you need medicine.
01:04:21.000 And for him, one of the big factors in fixing everything was his own success, his own personal success, and then he became more happy, and then his The medication helped.
01:04:32.000 He became more successful.
01:04:34.000 And then as he became eventually really successful, he started to experience a better quality of life.
01:04:41.000 He was happier.
01:04:42.000 He was more confident.
01:04:43.000 And then he slowly weaned himself off.
01:04:46.000 And now he has no need for them.
01:04:47.000 To me, that is so fascinating.
01:04:49.000 So we're not talking about necessarily a disease.
01:04:52.000 He does not have cancer.
01:04:53.000 It's not like they cured him of a disease.
01:04:56.000 It was a blanket that was keeping him warm.
01:05:00.000 It was something that was allowing him to bridge the gap between an unhealthy mental state and a healthy mental state.
01:05:08.000 But a lot of that health had to do with his own life.
01:05:11.000 He still eats like shit.
01:05:12.000 I mean, he's not the healthiest guy.
01:05:14.000 He eats a lot of fucking candy.
01:05:16.000 But he's really healthy now, as far as his mind.
01:05:19.000 He's very happy.
01:05:20.000 He's not lying.
01:05:22.000 He's not faking it.
01:05:23.000 So to me, it's always...
01:05:25.000 I've talked to friends that have had really good results with antidepressants.
01:05:31.000 So I think there are some dark moments in people's lives where that can kind of get them out of that.
01:05:37.000 But then part of me doesn't buy that that's the way to go.
01:05:41.000 Because part of me is like, okay, well, did you exercise?
01:05:44.000 No.
01:05:45.000 Did you take really healthy foods?
01:05:47.000 No.
01:05:48.000 Did you clean your life up?
01:05:49.000 No.
01:05:50.000 What happened here?
01:05:52.000 And one of the things that A lot of these antidepressants do, is they make you not feel bad about stuff.
01:05:59.000 Like, about anything.
01:06:01.000 Like, I had a friend who was on Zoloft, and she said, like, she took it for a year.
01:06:05.000 And she's like, I kind of lost a year of my life.
01:06:07.000 Like, I didn't give a fuck about anything during that year.
01:06:09.000 Like, anything can happen.
01:06:10.000 It's kind of scary.
01:06:11.000 Yeah!
01:06:12.000 But that, not giving a fuck, not feeling bad, you also...
01:06:17.000 You don't feel great either.
01:06:19.000 You don't feel like, God, it's a good time to be alive.
01:06:22.000 Look at me.
01:06:23.000 I'm healthy.
01:06:23.000 I can move.
01:06:24.000 All those thoughts don't sort of come into play.
01:06:28.000 It's like it dulls everything.
01:06:30.000 It dulls the highs and it dulls the lows and it keeps the pain away.
01:06:34.000 That's kind of interesting because, believe it or not, that's actually a symptom of depression.
01:06:38.000 I think it's called like hedonia or something where...
01:06:41.000 Someone's not, like, really responsive to anything.
01:06:43.000 It's like, you can't, like, you just can't, like, you know, you can't, like, excite them or, like, make them super anxious either.
01:06:52.000 They're just kind of, like, you know...
01:06:54.000 So that's actually kind of interesting that she was experiencing that while on an antidepressant.
01:06:59.000 Well, the results vary pretty widely.
01:07:02.000 Totally.
01:07:02.000 Yeah, I mean...
01:07:03.000 With the same drugs, right?
01:07:04.000 Yeah.
01:07:05.000 Yeah.
01:07:06.000 Now, is that because of biodiversity?
01:07:07.000 Like, what's causing that...
01:07:09.000 Like, you could take something, and you would have a totally different reaction, and I could take something.
01:07:13.000 And, you know, it would just be perfect for me.
01:07:16.000 Yeah.
01:07:16.000 You know, I honestly, I don't think we actually know really why that is.
01:07:20.000 But what we do know is that there are, I mean, there are different, you know, we are different people and I've got different genes that are regulating how much serotonin I'm making, how much dopamine I'm making, how much...
01:07:32.000 I'm metabolizing it, how quickly I'm metabolizing it, than you and other people.
01:07:37.000 And this absolutely does affect how some of these drugs are, when they're taken, what their biological effect is.
01:07:46.000 I don't know.
01:07:50.000 There's definitely a genetic variation that affects just the way our neurotransmitters are being fired away and the way they're I'm
01:08:21.000 being metabolized.
01:08:21.000 I was talking about it actually playing a causal role.
01:08:23.000 I mean, there have actually been studies where normal healthy people are injected with either a placebo, which is saline water, you know, salt water, or they're injected with something that our gut produces called endotoxin.
01:08:37.000 Our gut produces it when our immune cells in our gut attack patients.
01:08:41.000 The bacteria in our gut because endotoxin is actually a component of the bacterial cell membrane and that is released upon inflammation.
01:08:48.000 So when you're eating a terrible diet, lots of refined sugar, and that's actually been shown.
01:08:54.000 You release endotoxin and it causes inflammatory response.
01:08:57.000 So when people are injected with endotoxin or they're injected with pro-inflammatory cytokines like interferon gamma, which we also make in our body when we're inflamed, normal healthy people start to experience feelings of depression.
01:09:12.000 They start to feel depressed, anxious, social withdrawal.
01:09:19.000 People with the placebo did not experience that.
01:09:21.000 Also, they had elevated levels of other inflammatory biomarkers in their blood.
01:09:27.000 So it really like, and this is just, this is causal.
01:09:30.000 I mean, we're talking about injecting inflammation, all of a sudden they're experiencing these like depressive symptoms.
01:09:35.000 It was actually people that were then given one of the omega-3 fatty acids, EPA. They're given actually a pretty high dose of it.
01:09:41.000 I think it was close to like two grams or something, completely alleviated any of those symptoms.
01:09:47.000 So those people that were getting the inflammatory cytokine or the endotoxin and the EPA did not experience those symptoms.
01:09:54.000 So it was really like inflammation, you know, driven.
01:09:58.000 These symptoms that were not experienced in the placebo.
01:10:01.000 And there's been multiple studies showing this.
01:10:04.000 It's not just one study, there's multiple studies.
01:10:07.000 Multiple studies, again, this is kind of like a new method people are using to explore how inflammation affects depression.
01:10:12.000 It also has been shown the same sort of scenario where there's a placebo and they're injecting an inflammatory cytokine.
01:10:20.000 Dopamine levels lower in the brains of people that were injected with the pro-inflammatory cytokine, but not the saline water.
01:10:26.000 And also the reward pathway in the brain is also decreased.
01:10:31.000 So, you know, again, like I was mentioning, you're not that excitable.
01:10:35.000 You know, it's just kind of like...
01:10:36.000 And that did not happen in the placebo group.
01:10:39.000 So this was not just an effect of being shot up with something, you know.
01:10:43.000 So...
01:10:45.000 When scientists have looked at some of the mechanisms and explored, well, how is it that inflammation is affecting dopamine in the brain?
01:10:53.000 How is it that it's affecting people's mood?
01:10:56.000 It's thought now there's a variety of mechanisms.
01:10:58.000 One is that these inflammatory cytokines, they actually cross the blood-brain barrier.
01:11:03.000 They get into the brain and they disrupt dopamine.
01:11:05.000 Dopamine release.
01:11:06.000 They disrupt serotonin release.
01:11:08.000 They disrupt norepinephrine release.
01:11:09.000 You know, they're disrupting these neurotransmitters being released.
01:11:13.000 The other thing is that there's been recently discovered that the lymphatic system is actually directly connected to the brain through the meninges.
01:11:21.000 I mean, it was previously thought that that was like cut off.
01:11:23.000 The brain was protected from the lymphatic system.
01:11:26.000 But it turns out we were wrong.
01:11:28.000 You know, everything that we learned in textbooks for years and years in our science classes was not accurate.
01:11:32.000 Actually, our lymphatic system is connected.
01:11:35.000 And what that means is that our immune system, the chemicals, the inflammatory cytokines we're producing from our immune cells are getting into the brain and disrupting neurotransmitter release and other things.
01:11:51.000 There's obviously a really strong connection to inflammation and depression that's shown to be causal.
01:11:56.000 But when you think about it, it's like, well, what causes inflammation?
01:12:00.000 Okay, well, we can talk about the sugar stuff because that's been shown.
01:12:03.000 Eating a terrible diet does.
01:12:04.000 But the other thing that causes it, and it's what you mentioned, that is a stressful event in someone's life.
01:12:12.000 An emotional event, a breakup, a tragedy, work-related stress, social anxiety, whatever it is...
01:12:20.000 Anything that causes you to release cortisol, stress hormones, believe it or not, those things actually affect inflammation in your gut.
01:12:29.000 So it's like a two-way street here.
01:12:31.000 I think that previously you and I have talked about in other podcasts, like how gut microbiome bacteria...
01:12:37.000 You know, you can take microbiome bacteria from an anxious mouse and transplant it into a non-anxious mouse and make it anxious and vice versa, right?
01:12:45.000 So there's like some sort of gut-brain axis through something called the vagal nerve.
01:12:50.000 Well, it goes both ways.
01:12:51.000 You can go from the brain down to the gut.
01:12:53.000 So it's been shown that, like, It's a corticoreleasing hormone, which is a stress hormone.
01:13:00.000 Through the vagal nerve, when you release it, it goes into the gut.
01:13:03.000 It activates immune cells, which then activate other proteins in the gut that chew up.
01:13:09.000 They're called proteases.
01:13:10.000 They chew up the gut barrier.
01:13:11.000 And then you start to release more inflammatory cells, which then get in contact with bacteria, more inflammation, and then it goes back.
01:13:19.000 It's like this feedback loop.
01:13:21.000 So I think that's how stress also, part of the mechanism, how a stressful event, any sort of breakup or tragedy, those sorts of things, also cause inflammation.
01:13:32.000 They cause inflammation.
01:13:33.000 In fact, this is totally off topic, but that's one reason why people should never go and get blood work done a day or two after some kind of traumatic event.
01:13:45.000 So if you get fired, don't get your blood work done.
01:13:47.000 Don't.
01:13:49.000 To not get your blood or break up or whatever.
01:13:52.000 Yeah, because it will skew everything.
01:13:55.000 Wow.
01:13:55.000 Everything.
01:13:56.000 Well, that's so amazing.
01:13:58.000 And when you discuss this and when you lay all these facts out, it makes it seem so irresponsible that 10% of the people are on this drug...
01:14:07.000 11%.
01:14:07.000 11%, excuse me, are on this drug or whatever, a category of these drugs.
01:14:14.000 Instead of dealing with it...
01:14:16.000 I mean, it seems like...
01:14:19.000 We're in a weird place when it comes to the holistic treatment of the human body.
01:14:24.000 We're in a very weird place where we have all of this information now, but it doesn't seem like it's being applied when it comes to the average person who's suffering.
01:14:33.000 The average person who's dealing with a disease or depression, which I guess you could call a disease.
01:14:40.000 And it just seems so insane that with all we know, that we're treating it only with this chemical pathway.
01:14:47.000 We're only treating it with a pill, this pharmacological solution to this, which just seems so limited.
01:14:56.000 It's upsetting!
01:14:56.000 It's so upsetting.
01:14:58.000 It's very upsetting.
01:14:59.000 It's like a mission of mine.
01:15:03.000 I think that the problem is multifold.
01:15:06.000 One is that you have psychiatrists and they're trained a certain way and people, when their patients come in, they expect that they're going to come...
01:15:14.000 They come in because they want a pill most of the time.
01:15:17.000 They do.
01:15:18.000 They come in because they don't want to deal with it and they want a pill.
01:15:20.000 And so that's kind of a problem because people need to understand that these pills are not the magic bullet.
01:15:27.000 I mean, I just told you only 40% of people Right.
01:15:34.000 Right.
01:15:36.000 Right.
01:15:39.000 I think I would love if there was some way to get a physician, usually they're psychiatrists that people go to for these sorts of problems, to push someone to say, you have to go run.
01:15:53.000 You're going to run six miles a week.
01:15:55.000 You're going to do that.
01:15:57.000 That is going to help you.
01:15:59.000 In fact, it's been shown.
01:16:02.000 It's been shown in multiple studies that exercise helps improve depression.
01:16:06.000 And one of the ways it does it, very interestingly, is that aerobic exercise specifically has been shown that whole serotonin pathway.
01:16:13.000 We're talking about inflammation inhibiting release of serotonin.
01:16:17.000 Well, guess what?
01:16:18.000 Inflammation affects serotonin in another way.
01:16:20.000 The precursor to serotonin and tryptophan, when you have inflammation, so like I said, an emotional event causes inflammation.
01:16:28.000 It doesn't have to be your sugar diet, okay?
01:16:31.000 Inflammation can be caused by your cortisol release.
01:16:34.000 When you have that inflammation...
01:16:38.000 Your body thinks that it needs to fight off something, but that's what it thinks.
01:16:42.000 It's like, okay, this, I'm sick.
01:16:43.000 I've got a foreign invader.
01:16:44.000 I need to kill it.
01:16:45.000 And so the tryptophan, which usually is being transported in the brain to make serotonin, which plays a role in how you feel.
01:16:52.000 It plays a role in lots of brain functions.
01:16:55.000 Then gets diverted into another pathway because your body's like, wait a minute, I don't need to feel good.
01:16:59.000 I need to survive.
01:17:01.000 I need to live.
01:17:02.000 So the tryptophan gets converted into this whole other pathway called kynurinine, which helps with basically immune cells needed to, different immune cells needed to make different types of immune cells.
01:17:14.000 So your body's like, okay, the tryptophan is going to this other pathway.
01:17:16.000 I need more immune cells, blah, blah, blah.
01:17:18.000 But the problem is that the kynurenine then gets converted into...
01:17:21.000 So now what you have is you're depleting your brain of serotonin.
01:17:24.000 Boom.
01:17:24.000 Right there.
01:17:25.000 Right?
01:17:25.000 That's the first thing.
01:17:26.000 So if you're not sick, and if you have chronic inflammation, you're chronically stressed, you're chronically eating a terrible diet, then you are going to constantly be diverting the serotonin, you know, the tryptophan, into this other pathway.
01:17:38.000 You're going to be depleting your brain of serotonin.
01:17:39.000 So that's one thing.
01:17:41.000 This is a two-fold problem.
01:17:43.000 Then that whole kynurenine thing gets converted into something called quinolytic acid, which actually crosses over the blood-brain barrier, becomes a neurotoxin, and also has been shown to cause depression.
01:17:53.000 So not only are you not getting serotonin, you're getting this gnarly shit in your brain that's not supposed to be there.
01:18:00.000 Exercise, it's been shown, specifically aerobic exercise, causes your muscle to soak up the kynurinine, actually another precursor to it, so that it can't form quinolytic acid.
01:18:11.000 So it doesn't form the neurotoxin part.
01:18:15.000 But exercise also makes tryptophan go into your brain.
01:18:20.000 You know, it alleviates some of the competition with branched-chain amino acids like leucine and isoleucine.
01:18:24.000 So that's another way.
01:18:25.000 It's doing a million things.
01:18:26.000 Brain-derived neurotrophic factor, we talked about at the beginning of the podcast.
01:18:29.000 That also plays a role in depression, helping prevent depression.
01:18:32.000 So neurogenesis, all that stuff that helps.
01:18:35.000 Growing new brain cells, making new connections, helps.
01:18:38.000 Helps you deal with stress.
01:18:39.000 That's why you make it when you stress your body.
01:18:41.000 It seems like there could be some sort of a holistic approach like a clinic that looks at all of these factors, looks at all these factors and prescribes, instead of just prescribing a pill, prescribes a very specific diet and exercise routine and maybe even meditation,
01:18:57.000 maybe even something that practices or enhances mindfulness or promotes mindfulness.
01:19:04.000 Something that allows you to manage the way you're viewing and taking in scenarios and scenes and events in your life and then processing them in a more healthy manner.
01:19:16.000 It seems like all these things would be as effective or maybe more effective than just a pill.
01:19:22.000 I agree with you and I'm hopeful for the future.
01:19:25.000 I think that the more, there's a lot of scientists that are studying this now.
01:19:29.000 I mean, it's becoming very common to look in the scientific literature and see, you know, scientists researching inflammation and the role of inflammation and depression and the role of exercise and helping treat it and the role of other, you I think the
01:20:05.000 diet, lifestyle, meditation, exercise, if we could just...
01:20:09.000 Get that into the clinical world and if people were motivated enough to realize this will really help them.
01:20:17.000 It really will.
01:20:20.000 People will be so much happier.
01:20:21.000 I really think so.
01:20:23.000 Some people just don't want to fucking exercise.
01:20:25.000 It's weird.
01:20:26.000 They would so much rather go to a doctor and get a pill.
01:20:29.000 It's so strange.
01:20:30.000 Well, it's this fear of discomfort.
01:20:34.000 People have this extreme feeling in their mind when it comes to their associations with exercise.
01:20:42.000 They want to avoid discomfort.
01:20:44.000 They feel like Any type of exercise is just like something to be avoided.
01:20:50.000 That's not for me.
01:20:51.000 Fuck that.
01:20:51.000 I don't want to sweat.
01:20:52.000 I don't want to strain.
01:20:53.000 And a lot of times this association that they have is about the beginnings of getting in shape.
01:20:58.000 It's not about once you're actually fit.
01:21:00.000 Because once you're actually fit, exercise is something you look forward to.
01:21:03.000 It's an alleviation of stress.
01:21:05.000 It feels great.
01:21:06.000 Like, if I can't get a workout in, I look at my schedule, I go, ah, shit, I don't have any time for a workout.
01:21:11.000 Which means I'm not gonna get that good feeling.
01:21:14.000 And so instead of looking at it like, oh, I've gotta go grunt and sweat, I'm thinking I'm not gonna feel good.
01:21:20.000 I'm not gonna feel relaxed.
01:21:21.000 I'm not gonna feel carefree.
01:21:23.000 And I'm not gonna feel even appreciative, like my appreciation of things.
01:21:27.000 It gets enhanced greatly after exercise.
01:21:30.000 I just feel better.
01:21:32.000 I feel like I can take things in for what they are rather than whatever sensory data that I'm getting from any event is just one more distraction that gets in my way.
01:21:43.000 That's a lot of times how I look at things if I'm overstressed or if I'm working too much.
01:21:48.000 Totally beautifully put.
01:21:49.000 Because that's exactly like at least what's been shown from like neuroimaging studies is that exercise does.
01:21:56.000 What you're talking about is the executive function.
01:21:58.000 You're talking about feeling good without that sensory stuff, which is the amygdala.
01:22:03.000 It's the emotional center.
01:22:04.000 That's been shown to be decreased in activity after exercise, whereas the executive function is increased.
01:22:09.000 So it's exactly in the right direction, right?
01:22:12.000 So you're able to logically think about this more and you feel good and it's like you're not that sensory response, that gut anxiety.
01:22:21.000 You don't feel it as much.
01:22:23.000 That part of your brain is actually quieter after exercise.
01:22:26.000 Meditation does a similar thing.
01:22:27.000 But if there was just a way...
01:22:30.000 To get this knowledge for people to understand, people that are averse to exercising.
01:22:35.000 If there was just some way, and I'm really trying to find a way because there are many people that I care about in my life that are that way and that feel depressed and are on some sort of antidepressant, which doesn't really work for them still.
01:22:56.000 I'm having this conversation with you and you get it because you experience it.
01:23:00.000 You exercise.
01:23:02.000 You eat healthy.
01:23:03.000 You experience these things.
01:23:05.000 But for someone that's never experienced it, How do you communicate it to them?
01:23:10.000 It's so hard for people to start anything new.
01:23:12.000 It's hard for people to start a pottery class.
01:23:15.000 It's not going to be involved with any physical pain or any stress or any exhaustion.
01:23:22.000 There's not that feeling that you get when you're really tired.
01:23:26.000 The feeling that you get, for me, is particularly difficult doing boring stuff, like an elliptical machine.
01:23:32.000 An elliptical machine, to me, It's a great workout.
01:23:36.000 It's awesome if I'm at a gym.
01:23:38.000 Because if I go to a gym, like at a hotel, and they have some bullshit weights, but they have an elliptical machine, I go, okay, if this thing has a high setting, I can get a real workout in this.
01:23:49.000 But those times when you're tired and you don't want to do it, they're so fucking boring.
01:23:54.000 It's just...
01:23:57.000 You'd have to listen to something.
01:23:58.000 You have to watch something.
01:24:00.000 Other stimuli has to come in in order to get you pumped up.
01:24:04.000 But I know this because I've done it a thousand times.
01:24:06.000 For someone who hasn't done it a thousand times, they get to that point like, fuck this.
01:24:11.000 I'm out of here.
01:24:12.000 Oh my God.
01:24:13.000 Let me get a donut.
01:24:14.000 Give me a coffee.
01:24:15.000 I'm gonna go outside and smoke a cigarette.
01:24:17.000 I feel better, you know, and it's so hard to get past that because we have all these connections in our mind when it comes to comfort Comfort and stress comfort and like our bodies for whatever reason Most people their associations are to avoid anything that's uncomfortable,
01:24:35.000 but it's so illogical because when you look at Comfort and you look at success and progress and then eventual the feelings of Accomplishment and of getting past certain hurdles and in terms of like how you feel about life A lot of those are connected to discomfort like discomfort is your friend.
01:24:56.000 It really is like discomfort and Not being happy and content with certain situations in life or certain feelings in life.
01:25:05.000 They're massive Massive motivators and they're amazing at facilitating change and yet our instinct is to avoid those and just sit on the couch and watch some fucking reality show about dudes who make moonshine with our jaw open.
01:25:23.000 It's bizarre.
01:25:25.000 It is.
01:25:26.000 It's too much of that stimuli where you don't have to do anything and you can still get yeah get that sensory information you know the need to act like to need to actually go out there and act is is so strong it's such a it's such an important thing but yet we resist it many people i know you don't i don't but so many people do i but i feel the thing you know i don't i don't allow it to work but i feel that fuck this i don't want to work out i feel I feel it all the time,
01:25:53.000 almost every time before I work out.
01:25:55.000 I have at least an inclination to blow it off.
01:25:59.000 I don't ever embrace it, but it's there.
01:26:02.000 It's there with everybody.
01:26:03.000 No one is completely 100% healthy and without any resistance.
01:26:09.000 Yeah.
01:26:09.000 I wonder if also that has...
01:26:11.000 We were talking about being a superager.
01:26:12.000 I wonder if there is some association there.
01:26:15.000 You know, we're looking at how it's important to push past that uncomfortableness, whether it's physical or mental, and that's linked to being a superager.
01:26:25.000 But what if it's just like...
01:26:27.000 The ability to make yourself do that is important, too, right?
01:26:31.000 It's not just the act that you're doing.
01:26:33.000 It's not just the strenuous exercise, which is obviously good.
01:26:36.000 We know that it's good from science.
01:26:37.000 But what if it's just being able to, like, push yourself?
01:26:40.000 Like, maybe some people don't have that ability for whatever reason or they just...
01:26:45.000 Haven't tapped into it enough because they haven't really experienced it.
01:26:48.000 I think that's it.
01:26:49.000 I think it's a learned thing, you know, because if I take time off, like I got sick recently and I couldn't work out for like a week or, you know, six days or so.
01:26:59.000 And the act of getting back into the gym, I think in a lot of ways we rely on momentum.
01:27:06.000 We rely on the momentum of past experiences where you're just conditioned to do that.
01:27:12.000 It's one of the things that you do.
01:27:14.000 For me at least, when I get really disciplined and I get really consistent with my workouts, one of the things that I feel, I almost feel momentum.
01:27:28.000 I feel like there's a push behind me.
01:27:30.000 After I get out of the gym, I have a really good workout.
01:27:33.000 I'm like, yeah, now I'm doing it.
01:27:35.000 I'm doing it all the time now and I'm looking forward to the next time.
01:27:38.000 It makes that resistance much weaker and it makes my motivation and my discipline much stronger.
01:27:44.000 I think a lot of it is based on just the consistency You know, it's one of the things that I talked about recently on the podcast I said, you know, like blowing something off It's not just not good like blowing off an exercise that you planned is not just bad for you physically It's also bad mentally because then that option is now available the option to fuck off is available and And you did it before,
01:28:10.000 and you're probably going to do it again, and you'll get mediocre results, not just in that aspect of your life, but maybe in all aspects of your life.
01:28:17.000 Because I think that option to fuck off when you embrace it, that is a pathway that you might choose when it comes to dealing with conflict in your personal life, dealing with business decisions.
01:28:27.000 Dealing with career decisions, like an uncomfortable decision that you might be faced with.
01:28:32.000 Maybe you need to make a change as far as what your pathway is in life, but you don't do it.
01:28:38.000 Instead, you fuck off.
01:28:39.000 And the inclination to fuck off, I think, that gathers momentum as well.
01:28:45.000 The inclination to be disciplined...
01:28:47.000 That comes with momentum, too.
01:28:49.000 And I think both things.
01:28:50.000 Like, you take a path.
01:28:52.000 The path of the healthy person or the path of the fuck-off.
01:28:55.000 Like, both of them are available in whichever path you embrace.
01:28:59.000 Totally.
01:29:00.000 Totally.
01:29:00.000 I mean, I think that...
01:29:03.000 The same thing goes for lying, too.
01:29:06.000 I think it's very bad to lie, even if it's something that is really benign, like what they call a little tiny white leg.
01:29:14.000 You look great!
01:29:15.000 Because then you start making these neural connections in your brain, and you start to get used to doing it, like you were saying.
01:29:22.000 And I think that it just kind of dawned on me as you were saying this, that That with the motivation and the momentum you were talking about, I think that's the same way.
01:29:31.000 I think you're building these neural pathways, these motivation pathways, and that's really important for that momentum to do it again and again.
01:29:39.000 There was some studies, a few of them, that have been done where you can take a person and do that direct transcranial stimulation, which I don't know much about, but I remember these studies, and stimulate a certain part of the brain that's involved in motivation,
01:29:54.000 and you can motivate them to go to the gym.
01:29:56.000 So you motivate them to actually go work out.
01:29:59.000 So that's in one of those electrodes that they put on a specific area of the outside of your head, and then it's like a little 9-volt battery is attached to it, and it just zaps you a little bit?
01:30:08.000 It zaps you a little bit and activates a certain brain region.
01:30:12.000 And that brain region it's activating, specifically with this study I was talking about, actually there's a couple of them, were involved in motivation.
01:30:18.000 And that's probably, with you and I, we already have those pathways activated because we're constantly Forcing ourself to go.
01:30:26.000 I mean, I feel the same way.
01:30:28.000 There are times I'm like, God, I don't want to go for a run.
01:30:30.000 Like, it's so hard.
01:30:31.000 But once you do it, goddamn, you feel great.
01:30:33.000 You feel great.
01:30:34.000 And you know what?
01:30:34.000 You've accomplished something.
01:30:35.000 So it's not only like you're feeling great from all the neural mechanisms that are being activated and all the biochemistry that's going on, but you have accomplished something.
01:30:43.000 You did.
01:30:43.000 You pushed past something you didn't want to do, and you feel good about doing that.
01:30:47.000 After magnetic stimulation therapy Wilmington woman finds motivation and energy Yeah, there's a radio lab about this a radio lab podcast is called nine volt nirvana and They're pretty good.
01:31:01.000 I like I love it.
01:31:02.000 I love radio lab and it actually deals with it's the first story the opening story is amazing because it deals with this woman who went to this like sniper training simulation video and video thing that they do where they they put you in front they give you like a fake gun and they put you in front of a video screen and a scenario plays out and then the scenario there's like a terrorist attack you have to take out the bad guys and they did it with her and she was it's 20 minutes long and she was terrible like she fucked
01:31:32.000 it all up it was just like a disaster like she didn't respond correctly then They put these electrodes.
01:31:39.000 What would you exactly call them?
01:31:41.000 One of those things?
01:31:42.000 Electrodes.
01:31:42.000 It's electrodes.
01:31:43.000 So they put these on her brain or on the outside of her head in very specific areas and stimulated it and then recreated it.
01:31:51.000 And in the recreation, she was 100% effective.
01:31:55.000 She killed all the bad guys and she went through this 20 minute thing and when it was over, when they told her that it was over, she thought they were fucking with her because she thought it was only two minutes.
01:32:07.000 That is incredible.
01:32:09.000 Oh, it's amazing.
01:32:10.000 The way she describes it is amazing.
01:32:12.000 It's amazing.
01:32:13.000 It's a little scary, too.
01:32:15.000 Just because, I mean, it's like, can you, like, program someone to do something?
01:32:20.000 There's another study that was published, like, two years ago.
01:32:23.000 Same thing, trans...
01:32:28.000 I'm so not an expert on any of this, but I just remember this study because it was trying to investigate what part of the brain's fault in consciousness, right?
01:32:37.000 And so the study was designed in such a way where she was reading a book and then they zapped her in a certain part of the brain and she stopped reading the book, this woman, And like, just looked at them like a zombie, like no, nothing, no talk,
01:32:52.000 no, and then they zapped her again.
01:32:54.000 And she started, she picked up right where she left off, had no recollection at all of doing that.
01:33:00.000 So this was like, you know, trying to figure out if this part of the brain is involved in consciousness.
01:33:05.000 Anyways, that was a little scary.
01:33:06.000 Well, that is a real concern, right?
01:33:09.000 Because one of the things about this transcranial direct stimulation radio lab podcast was that they talked about how many people are out there just fucking experimenting, where there's a whole community online where people are talking about experimenting with the voltages and experimenting with the placement.
01:33:27.000 Oh my goodness.
01:33:28.000 And one guy did something, he lost his sense of taste.
01:33:32.000 So people are just buying these and doing it?
01:33:34.000 Yes!
01:33:37.000 It's like you go to fucking Radiolab.
01:33:39.000 The consequences of a world where anyone with $20 and access to Radio Shack can make their own brain zapper.
01:33:45.000 Is that from Radiolab?
01:33:47.000 From their podcast page.
01:33:49.000 Wow.
01:33:50.000 It's amazing because there's apparently this gigantic community of it.
01:33:54.000 Hold on a second.
01:33:55.000 Go back up there and make that larger again.
01:33:57.000 The last couple years, TDCS, direct cranial stimulation, has been all over the news.
01:34:06.000 Researchers claim that juicing the brain with just 2 milliamps, think 9-volt battery, can help with everything from learning languages to quitting smoking to overcoming depression.
01:34:16.000 And so they brought in a neuroscientist, Michael Wysand, at Wright State Research Institute into the studio to tell them how it works.
01:34:24.000 Really interesting.
01:34:25.000 Very interesting.
01:34:26.000 You know, I feel like in terms of, like, treating depression or helping people get motivated to go to the gym, it may really have relevance.
01:34:35.000 Yeah.
01:34:35.000 But it also might be like slapping a supercharger on an old Chevy Nova and you blow the fucking engine on the thing, you know?
01:34:42.000 It's true.
01:34:42.000 It's true.
01:34:43.000 I mean, you don't really...
01:34:45.000 We don't really know enough about what's going...
01:34:47.000 I certainly wouldn't be experimenting with that, like, right now.
01:34:50.000 I'm in.
01:34:50.000 Let's do it.
01:34:50.000 Are you doing it?
01:34:51.000 Yeah, fuck it.
01:34:52.000 I'm thinking about going to Radio Shack right after I get out of here.
01:34:56.000 Not really, but sort of.
01:34:58.000 I mean, it's just interesting.
01:34:59.000 It's amazing that we are really some sort of a system, and you can juice that system.
01:35:06.000 Like, a little electricity here, a little vitamin there, you know, a little broccoli sprouts here.
01:35:12.000 Yeah.
01:35:12.000 It's like...
01:35:13.000 That's the weirdest thing about people and one of the weirdest things about people is how variable we are depending upon what we put inside of us.
01:35:21.000 And we don't think of it that way most of the time.
01:35:23.000 We think of ourselves as ourselves.
01:35:25.000 You know, I'm sure you think of yourself as Rhonda Patrick.
01:35:28.000 But Rhonda Patrick relies on a bunch of fucking chemicals to be Rhonda Patrick, right?
01:35:32.000 I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on in there.
01:35:34.000 It's not just, it's not this one, like, this is a laptop.
01:35:39.000 You know, I'm not adding shit to this thing.
01:35:41.000 Like, I could put programs in it and stuff, but I mean, this is the, everything in there is kind of worked out.
01:35:46.000 You know, there's a processor, there's a motherboard, it's all the, all this junk is in place, and the electricity plugs into the back, and it's not really variable.
01:35:55.000 You know, the human body is so fucking variable and pliable and malleable.
01:35:59.000 There's so many different things that you can do to make yourself better.
01:36:03.000 I got this conversation with a friend of mine who's not a physical fitness guy and he's kind of a nihilist and nihilist, I guess you would say.
01:36:11.000 I never say that word.
01:36:12.000 I just read it.
01:36:13.000 I think it's nihilist.
01:36:14.000 And he's, you know, he's a little bit of a curmudgeon and he's like, yeah, what's the point?
01:36:19.000 You know, like, really, what is the point?
01:36:21.000 You're always doing all those martial arts and exercise.
01:36:23.000 I go, okay.
01:36:24.000 If I could give you a pill, and that pill would turn you essentially into a super person.
01:36:30.000 Like, you can do shit that you can't do now.
01:36:32.000 You could lift weights you can't lift.
01:36:34.000 You could beat people up.
01:36:35.000 You could do physical fitness feats that, you know, right now are totally insurmountable and outside the realm of possibility.
01:36:44.000 Would you take that pill?
01:36:45.000 So simple.
01:36:47.000 And he goes, no, I wouldn't.
01:36:48.000 I go, you wouldn't.
01:36:49.000 Okay.
01:36:50.000 If I could give you a pill that would prevent you from being a decaying old man, and you could stay in the state you are right now, would you take that?
01:36:59.000 He's like, yeah, I probably would take that.
01:37:01.000 I go, well, that's how it feels like to me, motherfucker.
01:37:04.000 That's how it feels to me.
01:37:05.000 You're a decaying old man.
01:37:08.000 I think he's a year older than me.
01:37:10.000 But he looks like he's 50 years older than me.
01:37:12.000 I mean, his body's all humped.
01:37:14.000 He's got a little punch.
01:37:16.000 He doesn't have any muscle tone.
01:37:17.000 And I'm like, dude, all of that is just physical fitness.
01:37:21.000 You're not broken.
01:37:22.000 There's nothing wrong with you.
01:37:24.000 But if you got on a steady yoga routine and started doing some resistance training and started maybe swimming or something like that, a year from now, you would have a completely different body.
01:37:34.000 Talking to me, I'm like, I've done it my whole life.
01:37:38.000 I can do stuff that you don't think is possible.
01:37:42.000 To me, it's like two times a week.
01:37:44.000 Three times a week I do that stuff.
01:37:47.000 Your body is like a race car that you can juice up yourself.
01:37:51.000 You can add the fat tires.
01:37:53.000 You can add the improved suspension.
01:37:56.000 You can beef up the horsepower in the engine.
01:37:58.000 You can do all that yourself.
01:37:59.000 Or you can just choose to have this shitty body that's always falling apart on you.
01:38:04.000 Right.
01:38:04.000 I mean, what you and I are both choosing to do is, you know, we're both kind of obsessed with nutrition and aging and being, you know, as optimal as we can in terms of our health.
01:38:16.000 But ultimately, what we are doing is delaying the aging process by switching on all these switches and like, you know, exercise and getting all the micronutrients and avoiding the refined sugar, which is causing inflammation and all that stuff.
01:38:30.000 And it's really...
01:38:31.000 Because that stuff is part of the aging process and it accelerates the aging process.
01:38:35.000 I don't think people that...
01:38:37.000 Don't do this stuff.
01:38:38.000 Realize that.
01:38:40.000 It's not just about looking good.
01:38:42.000 It's about aging.
01:38:44.000 It's about being older and being fit and being mentally sharp and not being degenerate and decrepit.
01:38:52.000 How awful would that be to be 60, which is young?
01:38:57.000 60 is still young.
01:38:59.000 Broken.
01:39:00.000 Yeah, broken.
01:39:01.000 Which is really common.
01:39:02.000 It's super common.
01:39:03.000 Especially for sedentary people.
01:39:04.000 Exactly.
01:39:05.000 Most sedentary people are people that also choose to eat terrible diets.
01:39:10.000 So it's like, not only are they sedentary, they're also eating crappy food and not getting all the nutrients they need.
01:39:17.000 So it's just like this mega explosion dynamite of just bad.
01:39:22.000 Yeah, increasing inflammation.
01:39:24.000 I think intelligent people, like my friend, he is intelligent, and I think he connects vanity with those things.
01:39:30.000 And he thinks vanity is for fools.
01:39:32.000 And he thinks it's a trait that he finds reprehensible.
01:39:37.000 He just doesn't like it.
01:39:39.000 He sees people that are...
01:39:42.000 You know, whatever.
01:39:43.000 Maybe it's flashy clothes.
01:39:45.000 Maybe it's, you know, the way they wear their hair.
01:39:47.000 Whatever it is that he thinks is preposterous.
01:39:49.000 He connects that with physical fitness.
01:39:51.000 I'm like, man, but it's your vehicle.
01:39:53.000 It's like how you get through this life and it's how you think.
01:39:57.000 It's so many different things that are all connected into one superorganism, which is the life that you're living.
01:40:06.000 It's, you know...
01:40:08.000 I think everybody knows now, I mean, it's not something we grew up knowing, but everybody knows now about your gut biome.
01:40:14.000 This is a really huge factor in how you exist as an organism.
01:40:20.000 Or as, maybe even an organism is the wrong word, because we're essentially ecosystems.
01:40:25.000 You know, and we're in charge.
01:40:27.000 This weird consciousness that has all this resistance and has all this inclination towards comfort and fucking off and blowing things off is what is in charge of making all these things happen that keep this ecosystem healthy.
01:40:41.000 It's almost like if Earth itself...
01:41:02.000 Just blow it up.
01:41:05.000 Yeah, fuck it.
01:41:06.000 Let's just kill all a life.
01:41:08.000 It's all going to die eventually.
01:41:09.000 I mean, the sun only lasts seven billion years.
01:41:13.000 You see, that is the perspective a lot of people take with aging, where it's like, well, you're going to die, you're going to age, you can't stop aging.
01:41:19.000 And it's like, yes, you're right, but that's not the point.
01:41:22.000 The point is to age better.
01:41:24.000 Like, that's the point.
01:41:26.000 The point is to increase your health span.
01:41:28.000 And that is, we know, is possible.
01:41:31.000 There's some of these, like, centenarians and supercentenarians I've seen that are, like, over 100 years old, and they're, like, riding bikes and racing.
01:41:41.000 Yeah.
01:41:42.000 They're old.
01:41:43.000 They are very old.
01:41:44.000 But they're experiencing a very good quality of life.
01:41:46.000 Yeah.
01:41:47.000 And they're experiencing a quality of life that these other people that don't exercise feel, they physically feel their own body diminishing, and they just feel it's inevitable.
01:41:56.000 It is what it is.
01:41:57.000 You're wasting your time.
01:41:58.000 You're out there running around.
01:41:59.000 But we're not, because this experience right now, it's not like, no one's under the illusion that you're going to live forever.
01:42:06.000 You are enhancing the experience that you're currently involved in right now.
01:42:12.000 And you are alive.
01:42:13.000 You are alive.
01:42:14.000 You do experience this life.
01:42:15.000 But do you experience this life optimally?
01:42:17.000 Is it as enjoyable as it can be?
01:42:20.000 And we all know that there's a spectrum for that enjoyability.
01:42:23.000 We've all had times in our life where it's not been so great.
01:42:26.000 And then times in our life where everything came together like, what a fucking great day!
01:42:30.000 Woo!
01:42:31.000 Make more of those.
01:42:32.000 You can make more of those.
01:42:34.000 And then the whole thing's better.
01:42:35.000 And I think when that whole thing is better, it affects everybody you touch, everybody that's around you, everybody you come in contact with, and that in turn, I mean, it sounds so grandiose, but in turn can affect the entire race of human beings.
01:42:49.000 I agree.
01:42:50.000 Totally.
01:42:51.000 Totally agree.
01:42:51.000 And I love the way you put it about the feeling good.
01:42:54.000 It's not just about...
01:42:56.000 You know, staving off cancer.
01:42:58.000 You know, it's not just about what's going to happen 20, 30 years from now.
01:43:01.000 It's about now.
01:43:02.000 It's about not being depressed.
01:43:04.000 We know that.
01:43:05.000 You know, it's about feeling better.
01:43:06.000 It's about being smarter.
01:43:07.000 It's about having more executive function, having more long-term planning, less emotional amygdala, you know.
01:43:14.000 That is, like, right here, right now.
01:43:16.000 That is happening.
01:43:17.000 So, you know, it's not just long-term effects, which you also are, you know, also affecting, which is very good.
01:43:23.000 So it's like a win-win.
01:43:25.000 You're not just affecting the future.
01:43:26.000 You're affecting right now how you feel, how you perform.
01:43:29.000 You know, it's...
01:43:30.000 Yeah, it's an important concept that I continue to try to get across to people.
01:43:36.000 And it also will optimize everything else you do, whether it's creative pursuits, whether it's relationships that you get into.
01:43:43.000 A lot of those things are predicated on how you feel as you enter them, how you feel when you participate in them, and you can enhance that.
01:43:51.000 You can enhance that.
01:43:53.000 There's a weird thing that people do where they want to pretend they're not trying to do better.
01:43:57.000 I'm fine.
01:43:58.000 Everything's great.
01:43:59.000 That's not true.
01:44:01.000 You're putting out effort.
01:44:03.000 It's a matter of you have a mindset or you have a connection in your brain with putting out more effort and connecting that to discomfort.
01:44:14.000 And that connecting things to discomfort.
01:44:17.000 Stephen Pressfield has a book called The War of Art.
01:44:21.000 I've brought it up in this podcast a million times.
01:44:23.000 I actually have a copy of it.
01:44:25.000 I'll give it to you afterwards because I bought like 50 copies of it.
01:44:28.000 I've not heard of it.
01:44:29.000 I hand it out to people.
01:44:29.000 It's great.
01:44:30.000 And he's been on this podcast before.
01:44:33.000 And his book is essentially mostly about the creative pursuit.
01:44:37.000 And it's about resistance that people feel when you know you should write or you know you should paint or whatever you should sculpt, whatever these things are that you pursue.
01:44:46.000 And that there's this thing that comes up that tries to keep you from doing that.
01:44:52.000 This resistance.
01:44:53.000 And he's like, this is a battle that you will fight for the rest of your life.
01:44:56.000 But the key is to fight it.
01:44:57.000 Not to give in.
01:44:58.000 Don't give in to that resistance.
01:45:00.000 Just to fight that resistance.
01:45:01.000 And in doing so, every day you do so, you have won the battle for that day.
01:45:05.000 And you will continue to fight that battle.
01:45:07.000 And if you continue to fight that battle with that same mindset, you will win.
01:45:10.000 And this is a guy that up until the time he was 40 years old, he was basically a loser.
01:45:15.000 He wasn't doing well.
01:45:16.000 He was like a failed writer.
01:45:17.000 And then he kind of just figured it out and got his shit together and then wrote books about it.
01:45:21.000 And now he's like a really accomplished author.
01:45:23.000 And it's an amazing story.
01:45:25.000 And he's a really cool guy, too.
01:45:26.000 I had him on for a podcast.
01:45:28.000 And, you know, in his enthusiasm and the way he approaches it in this book is like it's very pragmatic.
01:45:36.000 Like you can see the steps and he lays it all out in a way that's very easy to digest.
01:45:44.000 Awesome.
01:45:45.000 Yeah, I'd love to read it.
01:45:46.000 I mean, I think that's something that's a very important part of the human experience is pushing past that resistance to whatever.
01:45:57.000 And you're right.
01:45:58.000 Once you do it, you get better at it next time, too.
01:46:01.000 I mean, it's still there, but you do get better at it next time.
01:46:03.000 There's also a problem, I think, that what it comes up when you and I are doing these podcasts where there's so much data.
01:46:12.000 There is so much to take in.
01:46:14.000 I mean, we have done how many podcasts now?
01:46:16.000 Like six or seven?
01:46:17.000 This is the sixth one.
01:46:18.000 Yeah.
01:46:18.000 A lot!
01:46:19.000 And every one of them is three hours of like, what in the fuck?
01:46:23.000 How does she know all this?
01:46:24.000 And just notebooks.
01:46:25.000 Like, when I put it up on Twitter, you know, that you're going to be here, everybody's like, get your notebook out!
01:46:30.000 I mean, that's like the number one response in the comments.
01:46:34.000 That's awesome.
01:46:35.000 Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that I enjoy learning, you know, and so it's something that I like to learn about things that can make me better, things that can make other people better mentally, physically, and Help aging and all that.
01:46:49.000 So I like to share that with people.
01:46:52.000 Have you heard of this...
01:46:53.000 We were talking about an aging pill and it kind of came into my mind when you were talking about giving your friend that...
01:46:59.000 If you could take a pill that could delay the way you age or make you live longer or better.
01:47:06.000 Have you heard of nicotinamide riboside or nicotinamide mononucleotide?
01:47:10.000 Not at all.
01:47:11.000 Not at all?
01:47:11.000 No.
01:47:12.000 Oh, wow.
01:47:12.000 It's kind of like...
01:47:13.000 I guess it's...
01:47:14.000 Maybe it's not made its way into the popular media as much as I thought, but it's definitely blown up in the science.
01:47:21.000 So nicotinamide riboside and nicotinamide mononucleotide, they're like precursor forms to vitamin B3. And in the body, they get converted into something called NAD. And NAD is something that your mitochondria,
01:47:39.000 which make energy, have to have to make energy.
01:47:42.000 You can't oxidize fatty acids.
01:47:45.000 You can't oxidize glucose.
01:47:46.000 You can't make energy from any of the foods you eat without NAD because your mitochondria need it to make the energy.
01:47:51.000 So it's very important for your mitochondria to function to make energy.
01:47:54.000 But also...
01:47:57.000 It's very important.
01:47:58.000 The levels of NAD always rise when you're fasting in between meals.
01:48:04.000 Between breakfast and lunch or breakfast and dinner or whatever, your NAD levels go up slowly after a meal and during the fasting state and also when you exercise.
01:48:14.000 So the levels of NAD will go up somewhat.
01:48:18.000 So these are precursors to NAD, right?
01:48:21.000 I'm telling you this because the studies that have been done, all the mechanisms go back to this forming NAD. NAD is something that decreases with age.
01:48:31.000 It's very important for aging.
01:48:34.000 Anytime you're inflamed, all the NAD gets sucked up into that inflammation because it requires energy to have your immune cells be activated and fighting off whatever they think they're fighting off, whether or not it's refined sugar or actual infection.
01:48:51.000 DNA damage sucks it up.
01:48:52.000 So it's like, you know, it's basically a limiting factor in a lot of ways.
01:48:56.000 So there's been all these studies over the past, I don't know, I'd say like six years probably now, five or six years, where various scientists have been feeding mice and This nicotinamide riboside or nicotinamide mononucleotide.
01:49:14.000 And they're finding that, for example, if you feed them nicotinamide mononucleotide, it delays aging in their liver, in their bones, in their eyes, their muscle.
01:49:27.000 So it's basically like their tissues are aging better.
01:49:31.000 We're good to go.
01:49:52.000 Lots of studies on that showing that if you give it to mice that have some sort of mitochondrial defect and their muscles all atrophying, it completely reverses that.
01:50:01.000 Their muscles are making lots of mitochondria and improves muscle function and enhances performance.
01:50:07.000 Anyways, you get the idea.
01:50:09.000 Lots and lots of animal studies.
01:50:10.000 Recently, there's been a human clinical trial done with nicotinamide riboside, just to show that it's safe and that it actually does increase NAD levels in human blood, which it does, even as low as a 100 milligrams dose a day.
01:50:26.000 And is this a supplement that people can buy?
01:50:28.000 So, nicotinamide mononucleotide is not.
01:50:33.000 That's found in broccoli.
01:50:35.000 Broccoli's really high in it.
01:50:37.000 Cucumbers are really high in it.
01:50:38.000 Cabbage is high in it.
01:50:40.000 Edamame.
01:50:41.000 But nicotinamide riboside, which gets converted into that, which eventually makes its way to NAD, it is a supplement.
01:50:49.000 So, a few scientists actually...
01:50:52.000 Some big name scientists in the aging field like Lenny Guaranty and a couple of others have started a supplement company called Elysium.
01:51:00.000 Can you give me that pad?
01:51:01.000 I forgot to put a pad over here.
01:51:03.000 I got to write that down.
01:51:05.000 Thank you.
01:51:05.000 Yeah.
01:51:06.000 So it's called Elysium and it has nicotinamide.
01:51:09.000 Elysium like the Matt Damon movie?
01:51:11.000 Yeah.
01:51:12.000 E-L-Y-S-I-U-M. Oh, look at this.
01:51:15.000 They have it.
01:51:16.000 So it has nicotinamide.
01:51:18.000 And by the way, I know it's affiliation.
01:51:19.000 I don't have any affiliation with any supplement company.
01:51:21.000 Is this a supplement company?
01:51:23.000 What is the company, Jamie?
01:51:24.000 I think it's a company.
01:51:26.000 The company's called Elysium or is it the supplement?
01:51:28.000 The supplement's called Elysium.
01:51:30.000 And how do you spell the actual nicotinamide?
01:51:33.000 How do you say it?
01:51:34.000 Nicotinamide.
01:51:35.000 N-I-C-N [...]-I-C Yeah, so it's interesting.
01:51:49.000 It's also, there's another company, I think Thorn makes one with it in it.
01:51:54.000 Thorn?
01:51:55.000 Yeah, Thorn.
01:51:56.000 The thing that's interesting about the Elysium, though, that I found, because I started looking into this, like, I've met Lenny Guaranty.
01:52:02.000 He's the guy who...
01:52:04.000 Whose lab, the whole pathway that resveratrol acts on was discovered.
01:52:10.000 So NAD switches on this whole genetic pathway that's anti-aging and it changes all these epigenetic factors.
01:52:17.000 Without getting into all the details and boring people to death.
01:52:22.000 It's basically NAD levels rise.
01:52:25.000 It acts as a switch.
01:52:26.000 This rises NAD levels.
01:52:28.000 So this is a supplement that's rising NAD levels.
01:52:30.000 But what's interesting about the Elysium is that it has something in it called terostilbene.
01:52:35.000 Terostilbene is found in blueberries.
01:52:37.000 Blueberries is probably one of the best sources of it.
01:52:41.000 But what is so interesting, I was trying to figure out why they're putting terylstilbene with nicotinamide riboside.
01:52:49.000 Because nicotinamide riboside is affecting NAD, it's affecting mitochondrial biogenesis.
01:52:54.000 It's been shown to increase mitochondrial biogenesis.
01:52:56.000 Like I said, these mice were performing like 42% better at different endurance activities after being supplemented with this.
01:53:06.000 That's insane.
01:53:07.000 Yeah.
01:53:08.000 But they're giving a lot.
01:53:09.000 Like, 24 to 32 milligrams per kilogram body weight would be the human equivalent dose.
01:53:16.000 So, you know, figure that out.
01:53:17.000 That's a lot.
01:53:18.000 That's probably like four grams a day or something like that, right?
01:53:20.000 For like a 160 or 80 pound person.
01:53:24.000 Something like that.
01:53:25.000 I don't know.
01:53:25.000 Anyways, the tarot still means interesting because, well, in and of itself it's interesting because it's actually, it's chemically similar to resveratrol.
01:53:35.000 But it's four times more bioavailable than resveratrol.
01:53:38.000 And it actually has been compared side by side in mouse studies to different mouse studies that have looked at cognitive function.
01:53:46.000 And it's better at improving cognitive function in animals than resveratrol is, largely because it's four times more bioavailable.
01:53:55.000 So anyways, I was like, well, I don't know if that's why they're doing it, because that's not affecting the same pathway.
01:54:00.000 But then I came across something really interesting, and that is pterostilbene actually has been shown, again, this is an animal study, to increase the type of bacteria in the gut.
01:54:11.000 That causes the conversion of certain compounds, allagitanins, which are found in berries and some nuts, but really high in pomegranate.
01:54:23.000 Allagitanins get converted into something called urolithin A by your gut bacteria, which is what pterostilbene is increasing, that gut bacteria.
01:54:33.000 So pterostilbene is actually increasing the production of urolithin A from berries that are having this other compound.
01:54:39.000 Urolithin A, what that does is, this has been shown also in other studies, it causes mitophagy or mitophagy, which is the clearing away of damaged mitochondria.
01:54:52.000 So you're basically clearing away damaged mitochondria like they eat themselves.
01:54:57.000 So phagy would be eating itself, kind of like autophagy or autophagy as it's called.
01:55:01.000 Which is a cell, sort of a damaged cell that gets cleared away.
01:55:04.000 It eats itself.
01:55:05.000 That happens a lot during a fasting state.
01:55:07.000 Well, this mitophagy is doing it specifically for mitochondria.
01:55:10.000 And the reason why this is so cool...
01:55:13.000 And I'm going to try to not bore you because I can go on.
01:55:17.000 Just keep going.
01:55:18.000 Don't worry about that.
01:55:19.000 The reason this is so cool is because mitochondria are very important for the way we age.
01:55:25.000 It's not just muscle function, brain function.
01:55:27.000 They're providing energy for everything.
01:55:29.000 Period.
01:55:30.000 Your mitochondria decay, you decay.
01:55:32.000 That's the way it is.
01:55:33.000 Period.
01:55:34.000 So their mitochondria, as you're aging, they're decaying, they're getting damaged and all this stuff.
01:55:39.000 Well, they have this whole repair system where you have lots of mitochondria inside one cell.
01:55:44.000 Let's say you have one damaged mitochondria and one healthy.
01:55:47.000 What they do is they fuse together, exchange all their content, and fizz back apart.
01:55:51.000 So they kind of like repair each other.
01:55:52.000 So you have a healthy one, a damaged one.
01:55:54.000 The healthy one kind of, you know, mixes with the unhealthy one.
01:55:57.000 And then you have two healthy-ish ones, right?
01:56:00.000 So...
01:56:01.000 This is happening constantly inside every cell.
01:56:18.000 Mitochondrial biogenesis with a nicotinamide riboside.
01:56:20.000 So not only are you getting rid of the damaged pool, you're now creating new ones that are like brand new, healthy, young, brimming, young mitochondria like you had when you were a young person, young child.
01:56:32.000 So now your pool that you're mixing with, it's like not...
01:56:35.000 Mitochondrial biogenesis is good in and of itself because you're making new mitochondria.
01:56:39.000 But having damaged ones still around can still dilute the pool out.
01:56:43.000 It can still dilute it.
01:56:45.000 So if you get...
01:56:46.000 When you clear out those damaged ones and you're making new ones, it's kind of like, boom!
01:56:50.000 You're going to get, like, young, new mitochondria.
01:56:53.000 So I think that possibly is another reason why they combine those.
01:56:57.000 I mean, it's completely speculation.
01:56:59.000 I'm just...
01:56:59.000 But anyways, you learned some cool shit about terostalpene and herolithin A. Yeah, mitophagy is a very interesting thing.
01:57:07.000 You know, exercise to some degree can increase it.
01:57:09.000 Fasting does.
01:57:11.000 And...
01:57:11.000 Why does fasting increase it?
01:57:13.000 When you're fasting, you try to conserve some of your energy, and the way you do that is by eating different organelles, eating the cell itself, which can then provide energy for other cells.
01:57:26.000 So usually what happens is fasting will selectively get rid of some of those damaged cells or damaged mitochondria.
01:57:34.000 So that happens during a fasting.
01:57:36.000 Does that make sense?
01:57:37.000 Yeah, it does.
01:57:38.000 It's interesting, though, that the body manages it so well that it goes after the damaged ones before it goes after the healthy ones.
01:57:44.000 Well, there's lots of molecular mechanisms that have been figured out why that is, and that's because the damaged one, their mitochondrial membrane potential is different.
01:57:54.000 It's all this complicated stuff, but it all works out perfectly, where it's these enzymes that target it to basically become...
01:58:20.000 Yeah.
01:58:22.000 Yeah.
01:58:23.000 Yeah.
01:58:25.000 Yeah, so anyways, the fact that you can like have new mitochondria is like pretty...
01:58:30.000 I mean, that's kind of like the big thing with aging.
01:58:33.000 It's been that for a long time is like young new mitochondria.
01:58:37.000 I know you're probably aware of this study, but they injected old mice with the blood of young mice and they found that the old mice started behaving more lively and then they did the reverse.
01:58:48.000 They injected the young mice with the blood of old mice and the mice struggled and...
01:58:54.000 And deteriorated.
01:58:55.000 And now there's some crazy new startup where for, what was it, like eight grand, they'd fill you up with the blood of young people.
01:59:03.000 Yeah.
01:59:04.000 Okay.
01:59:04.000 I'm glad you mentioned this because I've been reading about it recently.
01:59:06.000 Actually, you know, Peter Thiel, the PayPal?
01:59:09.000 Yes.
01:59:09.000 He does that.
01:59:10.000 He's publicly talked about- He's the guy that he's on Trump's board now, isn't he?
01:59:15.000 I think so.
01:59:15.000 Yeah.
01:59:16.000 He's like one of the first people that Trump hired, which is fascinating.
01:59:20.000 That is so fascinating.
01:59:21.000 Yeah, he's talked about how he gets blood injections.
01:59:25.000 What has he said about it?
01:59:27.000 I don't remember exactly what.
01:59:29.000 I don't think he said anything about whether it's doing anything.
01:59:32.000 But I think he's just mentioned publicly.
01:59:33.000 He starts showing up younger, looking like he's got a Snapchat filter on.
01:59:37.000 Well, here's the thing that was really interesting about this whole thing, because I've been following this field for a while, too, because I find it very interesting for multiple reasons.
01:59:45.000 One, it could be applicable, right?
01:59:47.000 I mean, easily.
01:59:48.000 There he is.
01:59:49.000 Look at him.
01:59:49.000 Looks young as fuck.
01:59:50.000 He's 90 years old.
01:59:52.000 He wants to inject himself with young people's blood or is doing it.
01:59:57.000 Trump delegate and Gawker bankruptor.
02:00:00.000 Oh, yeah, he's the guy who he he financed Hulk Hogan's attack on Gawker because Gawker outed him as being did they out him as gay or they attacked him and they they got really shitty with him and you know, he's a fucking billionaire.
02:00:16.000 So he went off and Thank you for turning off your ad blocker.
02:00:21.000 Enjoy the Forbes ad light experience.
02:00:24.000 Fuck off.
02:00:25.000 Nick Denton files for personal bankruptcy.
02:00:27.000 Yeah, he went after that guy because of it.
02:00:31.000 Yeah.
02:00:32.000 So anyway, go back to the other article.
02:00:34.000 I changed articles there.
02:00:36.000 So what he's doing, given Thiel's obsession with warding off death, it comes as no surprise a Silicon Valley billionaire is interested in at least one radical way of doing it, injecting himself with a young person's blood.
02:00:49.000 Wow.
02:00:50.000 Inc.
02:00:50.000 Magazine published part of a year-old interview with Thiel in which the venture capitalist explains that he's interested in parabiosis.
02:00:58.000 That's what it's called.
02:00:59.000 Which includes the practice of getting transfusions of blood from a younger person as a means of improving health and potentially reversing aging.
02:01:07.000 He said, I'm looking into this stuff.
02:01:09.000 I think it's really interesting.
02:01:10.000 Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
02:01:12.000 It's unclear whether the 48-year-old entrepreneur is currently receiving, guaranteed he is, Reports that a Thiel Capital employee, actually the personal health director, he has a personal health director.
02:01:25.000 Personal health director to Peter Thiel.
02:01:27.000 That's hilarious.
02:01:28.000 That's what you do when you're a baller.
02:01:30.000 I'm going to get a personal health director.
02:01:33.000 It's the same company, Ambrosia LLC. This is the one that we were talking about the other day?
02:01:38.000 Yeah.
02:01:38.000 Interesting.
02:01:39.000 So this is actually happening.
02:01:41.000 It says Thiel spends $40,000 per quarter.
02:01:44.000 Per quarter?!
02:01:46.000 To get an infusion of blood from an 18-year-old based on research conducted at Stanford on extending the lives of mice.
02:01:55.000 So he's got one fucking 18-year-old that he's vampiring.
02:01:58.000 One kid, he's giving him beets and broccoli sprouts and making him run up hills.
02:02:05.000 That's crazy.
02:02:05.000 Well, you would have to hope that kid's not doing meth.
02:02:09.000 He's got this 18-year-old kid.
02:02:10.000 He's probably measuring all these biomarkers in his blood.
02:02:12.000 I would imagine.
02:02:13.000 Yeah, because you would have to make sure.
02:02:15.000 I mean, that's so weird.
02:02:16.000 We're going to farm off young people.
02:02:19.000 Wow, that is so crazy.
02:02:20.000 He's given $6 million to a biomedical gerontologist?
02:02:26.000 Gerontologist?
02:02:27.000 Oh, Aubrey de Grey, that crazy fucker.
02:02:30.000 I had him on.
02:02:31.000 I had him on my podcast, too.
02:02:32.000 Yeah, he's interesting.
02:02:33.000 But he drinks.
02:02:34.000 Yes.
02:02:35.000 He boozes like every night.
02:02:37.000 He was like three in strong at 11 in the morning when I walked into his office.
02:02:41.000 Yeah, that's what I was saying when I was hanging out with him.
02:02:43.000 He's like, well, he's basing all of, he's putting all of his eggs in the basket of science.
02:02:51.000 He thinks that science and things like what Peter Thiel is doing is going to be able to mitigate all this stuff that he's doing.
02:02:56.000 Yeah.
02:02:57.000 But I'm like, dude, you're fucking boozing.
02:02:58.000 But what if you're stuck in that position where it's like, okay, they can delay the aging, but you're stuck now.
02:03:04.000 We can't make you 18, but we can stop you from dying.
02:03:08.000 So it's like, that's possible.
02:03:10.000 So he's going to be stuck not...
02:03:12.000 Well, he also doesn't exercise.
02:03:14.000 I found him to be perplexing.
02:03:16.000 I really enjoyed talking to him, but I found him to be quite perplexing because of the booze and because of the lack of exercise and his big fucking crazy Gandalf beard.
02:03:24.000 I'm like, what's going on with you, dude?
02:03:26.000 There's a lot going on here.
02:03:27.000 I'm like, there's a lot of image here, you know?
02:03:31.000 Yeah, him and I disagreed on a lot of nutrition.
02:03:33.000 Oh, well, hold on a second.
02:03:34.000 Let me talk about that.
02:03:35.000 And some say that the pay-to-participate study with the potential to collect up to $4.8 million from as many as 600 participants amounts to a scam.
02:03:43.000 Oh!
02:03:45.000 What's certain is that it's based on some intriguing, if inconclusive, science.
02:03:50.000 Karmazian, a 32-year-old Princeton graduate and competitive rower, said he was inspired by studies on mice that researchers had sewn together with their veins conjoined in a procedure called parabiosis.
02:04:01.000 Okay, that's what we were talking about, that study about mice.
02:04:04.000 So what did you guys disagree with?
02:04:07.000 Well, just the role that nutrition plays in aging.
02:04:09.000 He didn't think it was a big role.
02:04:10.000 No, he didn't think it was a big role.
02:04:12.000 It's because he's boozing.
02:04:13.000 Boozing, he's not working out.
02:04:15.000 I mean, how can he ignore all the science on the positive benefits of exercise and nutrition?
02:04:20.000 There's lots of studies showing that diet and lifestyle have a huge impact on aging.
02:04:26.000 Yeah.
02:04:27.000 I mean, just one more thing about this parabiosis, though, because it's kind of...
02:04:31.000 People were thinking that there was something in the young blood...
02:04:35.000 That was present, the GDNF11 that I just said on the screen.
02:04:39.000 GDNF11, what is that?
02:04:40.000 Right.
02:04:41.000 It's a growth factor 11. So it was thought that this was what was responsible for rejuvenating tissues and growing new brain cells because that's what happened when you gave it to the older mice.
02:04:52.000 But then other studies started to come out, also out of Stanford, showing that, in fact, it may not be something that's in the young blood, but something that's in the old blood.
02:05:03.000 That's actually causing the aging.
02:05:05.000 Something called VCAM1 that starts to make it as you're getting older and it causes inflammation in the brain and starts messing up things.
02:05:15.000 So there was a recent study that just came out and showed that if you make an antibody against that VCAM1 and prevent it from doing its action, you can stop that from happening.
02:05:25.000 So anyways, there's a lot to be figured out there.
02:05:28.000 Is there an antibody that they're currently working on?
02:05:29.000 Yeah.
02:05:30.000 Wow.
02:05:30.000 They're trying to make something that you can take.
02:05:33.000 Goddamn solution to aging.
02:05:35.000 I know.
02:05:35.000 That's going to be weird.
02:05:36.000 It's going to be weird if you see old people become young.
02:05:39.000 It's not going to be weird if people don't get any older.
02:05:42.000 It'll be kind of weird, but if I ran into you 20 years from now, I'm like, Damn, Rhonda, you look exactly the same.
02:05:49.000 It would be cool, but it wouldn't freak me out.
02:05:52.000 What would freak me out if Arnold Schwarzenegger started looking like he was when he was 20 again.
02:05:56.000 That would freak me out.
02:05:57.000 If we start seeing the change in the process, we start seeing things reverse, not just halt or slow down, which we kind of have seen with really healthy people, like some people.
02:06:10.000 You know, some people kind of defy aging, at least to a certain extent.
02:06:13.000 Like, Tom Cruise is a perfect example.
02:06:16.000 I want to know what they're filling that dude up with.
02:06:18.000 You know who else I think, who I was thinking that defied aging, like, famous-wise?
02:06:22.000 Keanu Reeves.
02:06:23.000 I feel like that guy's looked the same for, like, a long time.
02:06:27.000 Yeah, and he's in his 50s now.
02:06:28.000 Yeah, he looks...
02:06:29.000 He looks great.
02:06:29.000 Yeah, he looks great.
02:06:31.000 I think he smokes, too.
02:06:32.000 What?
02:06:33.000 Yeah.
02:06:33.000 No.
02:06:34.000 Yes.
02:06:35.000 Yeah.
02:06:35.000 See, that's to show you he's got some kind of, like, genetic...
02:06:38.000 There are...
02:06:39.000 There definitely are...
02:06:40.000 Tom Cruise, 1983, 2014. They're injecting him with some kind of young fluid.
02:06:45.000 You know what I'm saying?
02:06:48.000 I mean, look, he's got fucking ungodly sums of money.
02:06:54.000 And that's part of the issue.
02:06:57.000 You know, I mean, they've...
02:07:00.000 Yeah, you can definitely do things with money that make you look younger.
02:07:04.000 Trying to figure out what?
02:07:06.000 Surgery-wise and stuff.
02:07:07.000 I don't think he's doing surgery, though.
02:07:08.000 Oh, no?
02:07:08.000 No.
02:07:09.000 Well, you know, one of the things that they think is...
02:07:13.000 What is that picture up above?
02:07:15.000 What's that one with the shirt-off one up there?
02:07:17.000 Is that him working out up there?
02:07:19.000 See, that shows aging.
02:07:22.000 It's the one on the right.
02:07:23.000 Like, he's got substantially less tone to his muscles, but that could just be he's been busy.
02:07:29.000 It says the Maverick days are over.
02:07:31.000 Hold on.
02:07:32.000 Go back.
02:07:33.000 What does that say?
02:07:35.000 Is it from 1986 to right on the set yesterday?
02:07:39.000 So, yeah.
02:07:40.000 That's also...
02:07:41.000 There's not that much of a variability there.
02:07:43.000 That could easily be just he hasn't been working out as hard.
02:07:47.000 I mean, when you're on a movie set, you're working 15, 16 hours a day sometimes, especially these gigantic big budget blockbusters where you're involved in these crazy stunts and all that stuff.
02:07:59.000 So, interesting.
02:08:00.000 Yeah.
02:08:01.000 But, you know, back to this, like, diet-aging thing that, like, Aubrey and I disagreed on.
02:08:05.000 I mean, it's so weird that someone that's...
02:08:09.000 He's familiar with the aging literature would disagree, you know, with some of the science out there.
02:08:14.000 Like, there's been studies looking at, for example, people that have, like, one...
02:08:19.000 12-ounce can of, like, sugar water or sugar soda, some kind of, like, sugary drink a day.
02:08:26.000 They have, if you look at them, their telomeres and their white blood cells.
02:08:30.000 So telomeres are a biomarker for aging.
02:08:32.000 When you look at their telomere length, their telomeres are shorter compared to people that don't have that soda every day.
02:08:38.000 And that corresponds to, like, 4.6 years of biological aging.
02:08:42.000 I mean, that's, like...
02:08:44.000 Someone that's the same exact age as you, but has a telomere that looks, you know, either five years older, you know, five years younger.
02:08:51.000 That's fucking insane.
02:08:52.000 Yeah, it's totally insane.
02:08:53.000 All based off of like this refined sugar soda.
02:08:57.000 I wonder if it's like a personal thing with him because he knows that he's not addressing that in his own life.
02:09:01.000 Maybe that's why he's decided to put up these blinders and ignore the science.
02:09:05.000 Well, I think also he's interested in extending lifespan to like a massive point.
02:09:10.000 Sugary soft drinks may be linked to accelerated DNA aging study.
02:09:15.000 So he's, I mean, like I said, he's putting all of his eggs in the basket of science.
02:09:19.000 Yeah.
02:09:19.000 Just kind of, I mean, who knows?
02:09:21.000 I mean, it's kind of interesting that he is doing that, though, because he will concentrate, like, very heavily on that.
02:09:30.000 And, again, when you were talking about all this nutrition and exercise, the benefits of it, like, God, there's so much to study.
02:09:36.000 There's so much.
02:09:38.000 Maybe his desire to eschew that and go straight to the science of it only and talk about genetic manipulation and all these other different variables.
02:09:49.000 Maybe there's something to that.
02:09:50.000 Maybe you can't spend enough time in both fields.
02:09:55.000 Totally.
02:09:56.000 Yeah, I think that makes sense.
02:09:57.000 And I do think that there's hope for things like genetic engineering and stem cell therapies that will help tune humans up eventually.
02:10:05.000 And that will make a big difference.
02:10:08.000 Have I talked to you about my stem cell experiments?
02:10:11.000 No.
02:10:11.000 No?
02:10:12.000 Okay.
02:10:12.000 I have been getting stem cell shots.
02:10:15.000 I got them for an injured shoulder.
02:10:17.000 I had a rotator cuff tear, bicep tendon tear, and labrum tear in my shoulder.
02:10:24.000 And it was most likely it had been dislocated before, and I didn't know.
02:10:28.000 Which is just the side effects of years of doing difficult stuff with your body, especially jujitsu.
02:10:34.000 Because jujitsu is all about joint manipulations and joint locks and chokes and grappling.
02:10:39.000 And there's a lot of damage that your body goes through.
02:10:42.000 Everybody I know that does jujitsu at a certain point in time either has to get some form of surgery or has some pretty significant injuries that they have to work around.
02:10:51.000 So I... Went to a doctor that was like, well, you probably have to get surgery.
02:10:58.000 If not now, sometime really soon.
02:11:01.000 Because every time I'd work out, it would get really sore and I'd have to ice it afterwards.
02:11:05.000 I get these shots and they're doing them from...
02:11:09.000 They're extracting the stem cells from women's placenta.
02:11:13.000 And they take the stem cells and then they...
02:11:17.000 Shoot him into the area where you have the injury and the results are fucking freakish.
02:11:22.000 You heal like Wolverine.
02:11:24.000 I mean, it's really bizarre.
02:11:25.000 And now this same shoulder that I had, you know, like a real problem with where I was worried about needing surgery.
02:11:33.000 I do 90-pound presses with kettlebells with one shoulder, and I have no pain.
02:11:38.000 No pain, no discomfort.
02:11:40.000 It's not bothering me at all.
02:11:41.000 And it's unbelievable how much strength and function that the shoulder has now.
02:11:47.000 That's really cool.
02:11:48.000 I didn't realize they were doing that with placental stem cells.
02:11:51.000 Placental stem cells are like...
02:11:53.000 Kind of like a goldmine because they possess a type of stem cell called multipotent stem cell, which is able to form multiple different types of cartilage, cells that form bone, even cells that form neurons.
02:12:07.000 So they're able to form lots of different types of cells.
02:12:10.000 Um, and usually placenta are just like thrown away.
02:12:13.000 Yeah.
02:12:14.000 I mean, so it's kind of cool that there, I guess there's companies that are freezing them down and, um, finding, you know, donors that match.
02:12:21.000 Yeah.
02:12:21.000 Let me tell you the name of the company.
02:12:22.000 So people who are listening, it's in the, my doctor's name is Dr. Roddy McGee and he's in Las Vegas and the company is, um, I don't have it listed here.
02:12:35.000 That's good.
02:12:36.000 I've got it on my Instagram.
02:12:37.000 I've got my pen ready here, Joe.
02:12:38.000 You can't let me down.
02:12:39.000 No, I won't let you down.
02:12:40.000 Just give me a second.
02:12:40.000 I'll scroll through my Instagram and I'll find him because it wasn't that long ago that I was there.
02:12:44.000 But I posted something about it on Instagram, but I'm a giant believer in it.
02:12:50.000 And I've had some friends.
02:12:51.000 My friend John Dudley, who's an archer, was experiencing tendonitis in one of his elbows for a long time.
02:12:59.000 I mean, he had it, and it was, you know, something that he had been working through for quite a few years.
02:13:06.000 And he had one stem cell shot, and within two weeks, the pain was completely gone.
02:13:11.000 Whoa.
02:13:12.000 Yeah, it's freaky what they're able to do.
02:13:14.000 I'm fine again.
02:13:15.000 I'm all about it.
02:13:16.000 Stem cell therapies, I mean, that's something that I'm extremely excited about for the future.
02:13:21.000 But have you ever tried a hydrolyzed collagen powder or, like, bone broth?
02:13:25.000 Yes!
02:13:25.000 I drink bone broth every morning.
02:13:27.000 Okay, awesome.
02:13:28.000 I love it.
02:13:28.000 Yeah, so that's another thing.
02:13:31.000 Because I've been getting into the bone broth, but I add hydrolyzed collagen powder to my coffee in the morning and also my smoothies.
02:13:39.000 And what does that do?
02:13:40.000 Well, it's just like it's got a lot of the same things as bone broth.
02:13:44.000 Bone broth is probably actually even better because it has more stuff.
02:13:47.000 But it's been shown like in animal studies, if you take the hydrolyzed collagen powder and like radiolabel it so you can follow where it goes in an animal, it goes right to like the cartilage and the joints and ligaments.
02:13:58.000 I used it.
02:13:59.000 It has helped me heal injured wrists.
02:14:01.000 Obviously, my injuries are way, way less magnitude than something that you're experiencing in your shoulder.
02:14:08.000 Here it is.
02:14:09.000 Total Sports Medicine in Vegas.
02:14:13.000 That's the name of the company that does the stem cell injections?
02:14:17.000 Yes.
02:14:17.000 What about the company that you...
02:14:18.000 Applied Biologics.
02:14:20.000 It's called Flowgraft Amniotic Fluid Therapy.
02:14:24.000 That's what they're calling it.
02:14:25.000 But it's Total Sports Medicine in Las Vegas.
02:14:28.000 That's where I got the stem cell shots.
02:14:29.000 Applied Biologics is the company that freezes the placenta?
02:14:32.000 Yes.
02:14:33.000 Applied Biologics, flow graft amniotic fluid therapy.
02:14:37.000 And my friend Roddy McGee, Dr. Roddy McGee, is at Total Sports Medicine in Vegas.
02:14:43.000 He's awesome.
02:14:44.000 And he's such a knowledgeable guy too.
02:14:46.000 If you ever wanted to talk to him, I can get you in contact with him and he can explain all the details.
02:14:50.000 He talks like you.
02:14:50.000 You two could fucking geek out together and confuse the shit out of anybody who's standing next to you.
02:14:55.000 Well, you know, pretty soon, you can make stem cells from skin cells now.
02:15:00.000 Yeah, I've heard that.
02:15:00.000 I know they did that with a woman.
02:15:02.000 They created a new bladder for her.
02:15:03.000 She had bladder cancer, and they created a completely new bladder from her skin cells in a laboratory environment and then replaced her damaged bladder.
02:15:14.000 That's amazing.
02:15:15.000 I had only heard about the clinical study that they did with eye cells, where some woman had some sort of blindness, and they were able to use skin cells from her own skin, coax them into becoming retinal cells.
02:15:27.000 But bladder is really cool, too.
02:15:29.000 So there's lots and lots of animal studies, but every once in a while there's a new clinical study where they're just kind of piloting doing this and seeing the safety in humans.
02:15:39.000 And that is where I'm like...
02:15:41.000 I can't wait.
02:15:42.000 Yeah.
02:15:43.000 It's crazy.
02:15:44.000 Stem cell injections from my brain.
02:15:46.000 Right.
02:15:46.000 I'm shooting it right in my ear.
02:15:49.000 Right in there.
02:15:50.000 I'll take it.
02:15:51.000 It's going to be very bizarre when we get past a healthy human state.
02:15:56.000 That's what I'm really, not just concerned, not concerned about rather, but curious about.
02:16:01.000 Like, curious is not even a strong enough word, but I feel like within our lifetimes, maybe it's 50 years or whatever it's going to be, they're going to be able to engineer a human body to perform I'm sure you're aware of myostatin inhibitors and the benefits that they've shown.
02:16:17.000 The accidental ones that they've done with whippets and cows, but now they've started to do it on purpose for mice.
02:16:23.000 The mice are living longer.
02:16:26.000 They're super mice.
02:16:27.000 They are way more muscular.
02:16:30.000 I think they're like two to three times more muscular than the average mouse.
02:16:34.000 They look freakish when they kill them.
02:16:36.000 When they kill them and they skin them and they show the body of the mouse with the muscle structure in comparison to the body of a natural mouse.
02:16:42.000 It's like, what in the fuck are you doing here?
02:16:44.000 This is like the Hulk.
02:16:47.000 It's like you're making a tiny thing and you're putting all this extra muscle on it and for whatever reason it's living longer.
02:16:55.000 Yeah, that's the interesting part, that it's living longer.
02:16:58.000 We're trying to figure that out.
02:17:01.000 Because usually there's some sort of trade-off where you're like, well, it's...
02:17:04.000 See if we can find that, Jamie.
02:17:05.000 The thing, the myostatin inhibitor studies they did on mice, because their physical performance was extraordinary.
02:17:12.000 They could do things that the other mice just could not do.
02:17:14.000 But on top of that, they actually lived longer.
02:17:16.000 They did live longer.
02:17:17.000 Yeah, see, that's very interesting.
02:17:19.000 Yeah.
02:17:20.000 I know they were doing it with, like, pigs, too, or something.
02:17:22.000 I think I'd seen some pigs where they'd done some sort of...
02:17:25.000 I think they were doing gene engineering on them with the manostatin inhibitor, but...
02:17:29.000 Yeah, it's all very interesting.
02:17:32.000 Yeah, they've done it with animals that you use.
02:17:34.000 I mean, they're thinking that you could do it with animals that we use for food, and they would just provide more meat that way.
02:17:41.000 Right.
02:17:41.000 Which is kind of interesting, but what's the matter?
02:17:43.000 Exactly.
02:17:44.000 I found a couple different studies.
02:17:46.000 Some were older than like 10 years, so I don't know.
02:17:48.000 Oh, okay.
02:17:50.000 Increases muscle mass and muscle fiber in aged mice, but does not increase bone density or bone strength.
02:17:56.000 Huh, that could be a problem.
02:17:58.000 Snap.
02:18:00.000 That's an old study though, huh?
02:18:02.000 That's why I eat the nicotinamide riboside.
02:18:05.000 This is 2009. This is 2013 is the one I clicked on.
02:18:08.000 Interesting.
02:18:09.000 Maybe 2013 is probably where I saw it.
02:18:12.000 But some of those images, click on those images, Jamie, because some of those images, you could see they had the, like, go down there with the mice carcasses right there.
02:18:22.000 You can see the difference in the size.
02:18:24.000 No, that's not it.
02:18:25.000 That's not necessarily it.
02:18:26.000 I think it's actually the one where you, maybe it's that.
02:18:30.000 Yeah.
02:18:31.000 Hmm.
02:18:32.000 Well, there's plenty to look at.
02:18:34.000 But, yeah, there it is.
02:18:35.000 You can see, like, the difference in the muscle size from the average mouse, which is on the left, versus the myostatin mouse.
02:18:43.000 They're called myostatin knockout mouse.
02:18:45.000 But look at where they're standing there.
02:18:47.000 That one mouse just looks like a giant-ass powerlifter mouse.
02:18:51.000 These are strange times when it comes to this science.
02:18:54.000 Really strange times.
02:18:56.000 I mean, muscle mass is correlated with longevity.
02:18:59.000 Look at that.
02:18:59.000 That's exactly what I saw.
02:19:00.000 Wow.
02:19:00.000 That's exactly the one that I saw.
02:19:02.000 Whew.
02:19:03.000 Good lord.
02:19:06.000 It's incredible.
02:19:07.000 I mean, you've got like two levels of it.
02:19:10.000 You've got level, you know, level A and level B. You've got the natural mouse, which is on the left.
02:19:15.000 What is this image?
02:19:16.000 What is this image titled, Jamie?
02:19:19.000 Okay, bodybuilding and myostatin.
02:19:21.000 And there's an image of three mice.
02:19:22.000 One is a control, which is the average mouse.
02:19:24.000 The other one says dominant, negative.
02:19:26.000 How does that word go?
02:19:27.000 At...
02:19:29.000 Actrib.
02:19:29.000 Actrib, two I's.
02:19:31.000 And the other one is folistatin.
02:19:33.000 And in the folistatin one, it is just a fucking Lee Haney of mice.
02:19:39.000 You know, that's a giant-ass mouse.
02:19:41.000 It's ridiculous.
02:19:43.000 He's like double the size of the middle mouse, which is double the size of the other mouse.
02:19:46.000 I don't know what either of those pathways are or what they do, but clearly they regulate muscle mass.
02:19:52.000 Something's going on.
02:19:54.000 That would be kind of weird to do an injection and all of a sudden you're gaining lean muscle mass without doing anything.
02:20:02.000 Yeah, it doesn't look like those mice are working out.
02:20:05.000 No.
02:20:05.000 I mean, that would be super weird.
02:20:07.000 I don't know.
02:20:08.000 Well, that's one of the misconceptions about steroids.
02:20:10.000 You know, people think that, like, you do steroids, you just get bigger and muscular.
02:20:13.000 No, you actually have to work out.
02:20:15.000 What, this is a guy?
02:20:16.000 That's what it says is a myostatin product.
02:20:18.000 Oh, this is bullshit.
02:20:18.000 Yeah, obviously, right.
02:20:19.000 This is bullshit.
02:20:20.000 Yeah, this is just...
02:20:20.000 Dude, don't even click on that.
02:20:22.000 Take that fucking off.
02:20:23.000 That's lies.
02:20:24.000 These goddamn supplement companies that do that, that's really gross.
02:20:27.000 One of the things they do is they pay someone to get in really great shape.
02:20:31.000 So someone gets in really great shape.
02:20:32.000 Like, they'll give them steroids, they'll pump them up, and then they pay them to get fat.
02:20:36.000 So they pay them to stop working out, they get fat, and then they change the way the lighting is.
02:20:42.000 Like, one of the things that you can see when you're dealing with fraudulent companies is these shirt-off picks.
02:21:04.000 Wow.
02:21:05.000 Wow.
02:21:06.000 Wow.
02:21:08.000 Yeah.
02:21:09.000 These things right here.
02:21:10.000 Like, that guy on the right, the after, is the fucking before.
02:21:13.000 And the guy on the left, the before, is...
02:21:16.000 They paid that guy to stop working out and give fat.
02:21:19.000 How do people live with themselves, like, doing that?
02:21:21.000 Like, I just don't...
02:21:22.000 It seems like...
02:21:23.000 People are douchebags.
02:21:24.000 So fraudulent.
02:21:25.000 There's a lot of monsters out there.
02:21:26.000 I think this is from Bigger, Stronger, Faster.
02:21:28.000 I think this was actually taken the same day.
02:21:31.000 Oh, what?
02:21:31.000 And they did some Photoshop extra work and brought in the sides and painted them up, airbrushed them and all that stuff.
02:21:36.000 They do that too, for sure.
02:21:38.000 They definitely do that, too.
02:21:39.000 And our friend Chris Bell and Mark Bell, who were in Bigger, Stronger, Faster, they know a lot more about that than we do.
02:21:47.000 And there's a picture of him right above that.
02:21:49.000 If you haven't seen that documentary, I highly recommend it, Bigger, Stronger, Faster, which talks about the supplement industry and the use of steroids and all these different things.
02:21:58.000 That's interesting.
02:21:59.000 Yeah, it's one of the weird practices they do.
02:22:01.000 If you look at any of those before and after pictures, it's mostly what you're seeing.
02:22:06.000 I mean, unless they're a really ethical company and they Hired someone to take their product and continue to work out.
02:22:11.000 But even then, it's like when you show up before and after, what was the guy doing before?
02:22:15.000 What was the guy doing after?
02:22:16.000 How much is that his diet?
02:22:16.000 How much is that his exercise?
02:22:18.000 How do you know?
02:22:19.000 Did you get a blood test on this guy?
02:22:21.000 Is he on steroids?
02:22:22.000 What's happening here?
02:22:24.000 Yeah, I think we should just focus on ways we can actually, yeah, science and ways we know, like we can increase muscle mass, you know, obviously, you know, weightlifting and...
02:22:34.000 I don't mean to beat up on Aubrey de Grey, but when you brought up the science of nutrition and the factors, you know, the positive benefits of it, what was his reaction?
02:22:45.000 And what episode is this podcast?
02:22:46.000 This is an older podcast that I did.
02:22:50.000 I can't remember what episode, but it's been a year and a half at least, I would say.
02:22:56.000 I can't remember his exact reaction.
02:22:59.000 I mean, you can tell if you listen to the podcast.
02:23:01.000 I talk a lot about...
02:23:03.000 We talk a lot about CRISPR and stem cell and a lot of these possible therapies that are being used that can potentially extend lifespan.
02:23:12.000 But...
02:23:13.000 There's a point in the podcast where nutrition comes up and you can tell it gets a little awkward between the two of us because we kind of have different viewpoints and I'm sort of not trying to be rude because...
02:23:23.000 Look at him there.
02:23:24.000 Fucking wizard.
02:23:25.000 He's a wizard.
02:23:26.000 We were like so close in his office and he's...
02:23:30.000 Yeah.
02:23:31.000 Anyways.
02:23:32.000 He's an odd guy.
02:23:33.000 That beard is fucking awesome, though.
02:23:35.000 God damn, that's a magnificent beard.
02:23:36.000 I think his point was just that you're not going to extend lifespan by 40% or 50% with diet.
02:23:45.000 And that's what he wants to do, right?
02:23:47.000 And that's fair.
02:23:48.000 Right.
02:23:48.000 But, you know, the point that I think, you know, it's one thing to say that and another thing to kind of disregard nutrition altogether, you know, because that's just stupid.
02:23:58.000 Nutrition plays a role in the way you age.
02:24:00.000 And so I think that should be, you know, it shouldn't be something that people should completely disregard and not even not think about, but when they talk publicly, talk it down.
02:24:10.000 Like, I don't like that.
02:24:12.000 Right.
02:24:12.000 Like, that's fine if you want to focus on technologies.
02:24:15.000 And I agree with that.
02:24:16.000 I mean, I'm all about, you know, all these gene therapy technologies and CRISPR and, you know, induced pluripotent stem cells.
02:24:23.000 And I'm a huge, huge fan of all that.
02:24:26.000 But I don't think that being a fan of that and being excited about what the science, you know, and what new technologies are going to be able to bring us should, you know, make us talk about, like, kind of poop on nutrition.
02:24:38.000 Right.
02:24:39.000 Well, I think also a big factor is the way you feel.
02:24:43.000 And a big factor to, I mean, I assume he doesn't just want to extend a shitty life, right?
02:24:49.000 Right.
02:24:50.000 You want to extend a life where you feel wonderful.
02:24:52.000 Right.
02:24:52.000 Right?
02:24:53.000 And well, if you're boozing all the time like he is, that guy boozes every day.
02:24:57.000 I talked to him.
02:24:58.000 We were drunk as fuck in New York.
02:24:59.000 I went to that, what is it, 2045 conference?
02:25:04.000 There's a conference in New York where all of these nutty people who think you're going to be able to download your brain into a supercomputer in the year 2045, like this extended life conference.
02:25:15.000 And a lot of it was run by this Russian billionaire that I talked to, which he was a very odd character.
02:25:21.000 But he was building a robot that they were not satisfied with the results of this robot.
02:25:26.000 So they never unearthed it.
02:25:29.000 They never unveiled it, rather.
02:25:31.000 But all these people, this 2045 conference in New York, were all like this gathering of these super geeks that are all, in various ways, trying to extend life.
02:25:42.000 And Aubrey de Grey was there as well.
02:25:44.000 And I met him at the bar, and we just got fucking hammered.
02:25:47.000 We got hammered, and we're talking.
02:25:48.000 I'm like, are we extending life?
02:25:50.000 It feels like we're just drinking Guinness.
02:25:52.000 You're doing the opposite.
02:25:54.000 You are causing massive inflammation and brain cell death.
02:25:57.000 This is terrible, Aubrey!
02:25:59.000 What are we doing?
02:26:02.000 But, you know, I mean, those are two, like, very contrary ways of existing.
02:26:07.000 Yeah.
02:26:08.000 To look to extend life, but yet to diminish the potential of the life you're currently experiencing.
02:26:13.000 But, you know, I guess he's having fun.
02:26:14.000 You know, yeah.
02:26:15.000 I don't, you know, he was an interesting guy, and I enjoyed talking to him, but I don't want to talk bad about him, but I was very shocked when I walked into his office at literally, like, 11 in the morning, and he had already downed two beers, and he was on his third.
02:26:28.000 Yeah.
02:26:29.000 And I was just like, I wasn't expecting that.
02:26:34.000 I mean, it was completely shocking to me.
02:26:37.000 God bless him.
02:26:39.000 He's out there hammering it.
02:26:41.000 Who knows?
02:26:43.000 Yeah, but I guess there's a lot of different approaches, and I think his approach is welcome.
02:26:47.000 It's interesting.
02:26:48.000 It's just as important to have a guy like that that's kind of fucking up his body and still after it.
02:26:56.000 It's interesting.
02:26:57.000 Right.
02:26:58.000 You know, like I was saying, though, the thing that with him and I, you know, the major difference is focusing on nutrition.
02:27:07.000 And that's something that I want to get the message across.
02:27:10.000 Right.
02:27:11.000 Something you can do right now.
02:27:12.000 Yeah, something you can do right now.
02:27:14.000 And meanwhile, still telling people about the awesome science coming out.
02:27:18.000 But until then, let's keep it going.
02:27:22.000 They're not mutually exclusive.
02:27:24.000 They're not.
02:27:24.000 They're not mutually exclusive.
02:27:27.000 You know, one of the things that...
02:27:28.000 When we were talking about the muscle mass, I started thinking about this time-restricted eating.
02:27:34.000 Have you heard about this at all?
02:27:36.000 Time-restricted eating?
02:27:36.000 A little bit.
02:27:37.000 Like eating within a certain time period that correlates...
02:27:41.000 Corresponds to the day.
02:27:43.000 It has really profound effects on muscle mass.
02:27:45.000 Without...
02:27:46.000 Any other factors without having to exercise or anything, that's something that's extremely interesting.
02:27:52.000 But this time-restricted eating, it's very important for health and metabolism.
02:27:57.000 It's also something I've been obsessed with since probably early summer.
02:28:02.000 I've been doing it, just really fanatically making sure that I'm eating within no more than a 12-hour period.
02:28:10.000 I try to do 10 hours.
02:28:11.000 So when you wake up in the morning, I think?
02:28:42.000 Sleep during the day and active during night.
02:28:44.000 So because we are active during the day, we're diurnal, all of our metabolism enzymes and all these things are active during the day.
02:28:53.000 And things that activate them are light, light exposure, and also food intake.
02:28:59.000 And xenobiotic is also something.
02:29:01.000 So anything that gets metabolized by your system, by your liver, whatever, Activates these enzymes.
02:29:07.000 And once they're activated, they're on this 12-hour clock where it's like, okay, so you're metabolizing glucose, fatty acids, all these things, well, if you're eating within that 12-hour clock.
02:29:19.000 But when you go beyond that 12-hour clock, that's when things start to go really wrong because your metabolism enzymes start to shut down and you're not doing things properly, so you're not insulin responsive.
02:29:30.000 Even fatty acids and things like that, just metabolism in general is not working as well after 12 hours.
02:29:38.000 And so that's kind of a big eye-opener.
02:29:40.000 I know there was...
02:29:42.000 A lot of people think they eat a 12-hour time period.
02:29:45.000 Like if you were to survey them, like, oh yeah, I don't eat more than 12 hours.
02:29:49.000 But there's actually a study done by a friend of mine who's an expert in this field.
02:29:53.000 He's at the Salk Institute.
02:29:54.000 His name is Sachin Panda.
02:29:57.000 Very good scientist.
02:29:58.000 I interviewed him on my podcast and he's, you know, done a lot of research on this topic.
02:30:03.000 And he did a human study where he had like this app where people logged their, they took pictures of the food that they ate.
02:30:10.000 And it like, you know, sent it to some database they had and it had a timestamp on it so they could, you know, see when the clock, when their first cup of coffee or whatever was in the morning and then when they were eating at night.
02:30:19.000 Turned out most people were actually eating on a 15-hour clock.
02:30:23.000 So they were having their cup of coffee, you know, at 8, 7 in the morning and they were, you know, they were eating at like 9, 10, 10 o'clock.
02:30:32.000 Yeah, so they were eating much later.
02:30:35.000 Yeah.
02:30:36.000 The thing is, is that, like, when you do that, you start to gain more fat, you start to become more insulin insensitive, and you start to, like, your muscle starts to waste.
02:30:45.000 Regardless of what you eat?
02:30:47.000 Regardless of what you eat.
02:30:48.000 So, okay, no, I take that back.
02:30:51.000 So, you, if you eat healthy, if you eat healthy, so if you're eating a terrible diet...
02:30:56.000 If you're eating a terrible diet, and this has been shown in mice, lard, fat, plus sugar.
02:31:02.000 Those two together, which is the actual bad combination.
02:31:05.000 I'm glad you brought that up.
02:31:06.000 I'm going to make a note, but keep going.
02:31:08.000 Those two are the bad combination.
02:31:09.000 So if you're eating that, if you're feeding the mice that, and you let them eat whenever they want so they can eat...
02:31:14.000 They're nocturnal, but I'm just going to call it day, and their day is actually night.
02:31:18.000 Just know that that's true.
02:31:19.000 If they're eating during the day and night...
02:31:21.000 They gain tons of weight, become fat, become type 2 diabetic, fatty liver.
02:31:27.000 I mean, they're just a mess.
02:31:28.000 They're breaking down earlier than they should.
02:31:32.000 But if you eat normal, so if you're eating a healthy diet that's not high fat, high sugar, you're not necessarily going to gain more fat.
02:31:42.000 You don't become type 2 diabetic and all that if you're not eating all the crap.
02:31:45.000 So you're probably just going to be okay.
02:31:48.000 But if you take that same mouse who's eating a healthy diet and you make it eat within a time-restricted window of at least 12 hours, actually the best was 9 to 10, They gain way more muscle mass.
02:32:02.000 This is on a normal diet, just way more muscle mass.
02:32:04.000 And if they ate within a nine hour window, they had like a really improved endurance.
02:32:07.000 That's something I've noticed in myself.
02:32:09.000 If I eat within a nine hour window and I go for a run the next morning, my endurance is like very noticeably improved, like extremely noticeably improved.
02:32:19.000 So do you have like a timer?
02:32:21.000 Like how do you, do you time yourself at the beginning of your day?
02:32:25.000 Like when you first eat and then...
02:32:27.000 Yeah, so I typically...
02:32:28.000 So my friend Kevin Rose has an app that, like, it's called...
02:32:33.000 Darn, what did he...
02:32:34.000 Kevin Rose has an app of fasting...
02:32:36.000 Kevin Rose from Dig?
02:32:36.000 Yeah, yeah.
02:32:37.000 I've had him on.
02:32:37.000 Love that guy.
02:32:38.000 Yeah, he's awesome.
02:32:39.000 He's a big ketogenic diet proponent as well.
02:32:41.000 Yeah, he doesn't actually do keto anymore.
02:32:43.000 When did he stop?
02:32:45.000 After he got a bunch of blood work done.
02:32:47.000 I mean, there's different genes that people have that can affect the way they respond to that sort of diet.
02:32:53.000 Most of the time, people can respond good, but they're...
02:32:55.000 That's interesting, because he was on here just...
02:32:57.000 Wasn't that long ago.
02:32:59.000 Introducing Zero, a new app to help you fast...
02:33:02.000 So he has an app that helps you do that, that actually works really well.
02:33:05.000 Personally, what I do is I'm just kind of crazy about it, and I just remember it that day.
02:33:10.000 So I'm like, okay, I had my first cup of coffee at 8 a.m.
02:33:13.000 But his app actually is really cool because it really helps you keep track, and it sends you reminders.
02:33:18.000 So it helps you, and it's a free app.
02:33:21.000 Powerful Kevin Rose.
02:33:23.000 Anyways, it's really cool because you can just...
02:33:25.000 Like, literally, these mice were gaining more muscle mass just not by doing anything, but eating within this time-restricted window.
02:33:32.000 And the thing that was also very interesting about this was that...
02:33:38.000 You could cheat a couple of days a week.
02:33:40.000 Let's say weekends when you have social events and you're out drinking or whatever.
02:33:46.000 You can cheat two nights and still have the same benefits.
02:33:50.000 At least in mice.
02:33:51.000 We don't know if that's the same for humans.
02:33:53.000 Sachin is trying to aggregate some data with humans.
02:33:56.000 He actually has an ongoing trial that anyone can sign up for.
02:33:59.000 It's called My Circadian Clock.
02:34:01.000 And it's also an app on the phone that basically all you do is sign a consent form, take pictures of your food, and allow certain fitness data for them to collect.
02:34:14.000 And so they're doing this clinical study with humans from data that they're aggregating, which is kind of cool.
02:34:19.000 I'm getting his fasting tracker right now.
02:34:22.000 Bam!
02:34:23.000 Yeah, and you can do, he has different options for Kevin's fasting.
02:34:26.000 It's like the circadian option, which is the one I'm talking about.
02:34:29.000 And then there's like people that are doing intermittent fasting.
02:34:32.000 What's the circadian option?
02:34:34.000 That's the time-restricted eating.
02:34:35.000 That's just basically, circadian is the circadian clock you're on.
02:34:39.000 Right.
02:34:39.000 So that's what it's, this 24-hour cycle, day-night cycle.
02:34:43.000 So eating within at least a 12-hour window.
02:34:46.000 So 12 hour is the most you ever want.
02:34:49.000 The most.
02:34:49.000 So if you get up at 8 o'clock in the morning, that's when you have your first cup of coffee.
02:34:53.000 That's when it starts.
02:34:53.000 Not with food.
02:34:54.000 It starts with first cup of coffee.
02:34:56.000 Because that's interesting because a lot of people don't think that.
02:34:58.000 They think that they're still fasting if they have a cup of coffee and then they go run.
02:35:02.000 That's the thing.
02:35:03.000 So because coffee, even if it's black...
02:35:06.000 So people think if they have black coffee, they're fasting and they go run.
02:35:09.000 But black coffee is...
02:35:11.000 Caffeine is a xenobiotic.
02:35:12.000 It's something that has to be metabolized by liver enzymes.
02:35:15.000 Your gut processes it.
02:35:16.000 So anything that has...
02:35:17.000 Other than water.
02:35:18.000 Exactly.
02:35:19.000 Anything other than water.
02:35:20.000 And the same goes for, like, taking vitamin pills or drinking herbal tea late at night.
02:35:24.000 Like, the same thing goes.
02:35:26.000 Even herbal tea.
02:35:27.000 Herbal tea has got herb stuff in it.
02:35:29.000 Non-caffeinated herbal tea?
02:35:31.000 Like...
02:35:32.000 Yeah, because those are xenobiotics.
02:35:34.000 Chamomile.
02:35:34.000 I mean, that stuff's got to be processed by your liver or your gut.
02:35:37.000 It's not...
02:35:40.000 Right.
02:35:41.000 You know?
02:35:41.000 So, I mean, and this is something that's kind of a big question, and that is, well, if the fasting...
02:35:46.000 Let's say you're eating within a, like, nine-hour window, or, you know, ten-hour window.
02:35:51.000 Nine hours is optimal.
02:35:53.000 Nine hours is really what I found to be optimal for endurance.
02:35:57.000 In terms of the animal studies, like, ten hours also, if they...
02:36:00.000 Eating their healthy diet within ten hours, they still had...
02:36:05.000 They increased their lean muscle mass.
02:36:07.000 They didn't have to do anything else.
02:36:08.000 No extra exercising.
02:36:10.000 Because what was happening is their mitochondria were working better and they were also getting rid of fat easier.
02:36:18.000 So it increased their lean muscle mass.
02:36:21.000 That's incredible because I eat late at night all the time.
02:36:25.000 Well, you're a comedian.
02:36:26.000 Yeah.
02:36:27.000 I mean, that's probably, you probably eat after a show or something.
02:36:29.000 Yeah, I came home last night at 2 o'clock in the morning, pigged out after a show.
02:36:32.000 I mean, it was healthy food.
02:36:33.000 I ate, like, kefir and pistachio nuts.
02:36:36.000 I buy those big jugs of shelled pistachios.
02:36:41.000 Yeah.
02:36:41.000 So I just eat, like, piles of pistachios.
02:36:44.000 Because I feel like I'm not eating anything bad.
02:36:46.000 That's good for you.
02:36:47.000 But this knowledge now, knowing this, I'm going to cut that out now.
02:36:52.000 Please let me know how that goes.
02:36:54.000 I'm gonna.
02:36:54.000 I'm gonna start right now.
02:36:55.000 Yeah, that's awesome.
02:36:56.000 I mean, like I said, you can cheat.
02:36:58.000 There was cheating at least in mice.
02:36:59.000 Twice a week was okay.
02:37:01.000 Two times a week is a good cheat.
02:37:03.000 Yeah, and that's kind of cool because it's like a weekend, right?
02:37:05.000 Right.
02:37:06.000 Yeah.
02:37:06.000 You know, so you have your social event.
02:37:07.000 It's hard to do with social events and stuff if you have like something late and you kind of have to fast early in the morning all the way up and so you can do it later.
02:37:16.000 Yeah.
02:37:16.000 You know what I mean?
02:37:17.000 I do a lot of workouts fasted now.
02:37:19.000 And one of the things that I like to do is I get up in the morning without having anything, and then I work out.
02:37:24.000 But I've been having coffee.
02:37:25.000 So I thought I was fasting.
02:37:28.000 Well, see, the thing is, and this is kind of what I was talking with Sachin about, is that if you're fasting itself, the fasting itself is having a positive effect on all these enzymes.
02:37:38.000 So maybe there's some sort of cancelization out.
02:37:42.000 It's not as good.
02:37:44.000 It's not as good, I would say.
02:37:46.000 So just water.
02:37:47.000 We don't have actual empirical data on that saying, okay, well, you know, and that's something that Satya would like to look at in humans because it's like a big question.
02:37:55.000 If you are just fasting, in theory, it's not.
02:37:59.000 You're starting all those clocks.
02:38:02.000 Caffeine starts the clocks.
02:38:03.000 That's known.
02:38:04.000 But then again, you know, like I said, fasting changes your metabolism in a way, too, that makes it better.
02:38:09.000 So maybe it's not quite as bad.
02:38:11.000 Not quite as bad, but not optimal.
02:38:13.000 Exactly.
02:38:14.000 I like that.
02:38:14.000 That's perfect.
02:38:15.000 Okay.
02:38:15.000 Yeah.
02:38:16.000 So, shoot for nine hours.
02:38:18.000 That was like, nine hours is the best, especially for endurance enhancements.
02:38:24.000 Like, really.
02:38:25.000 So, if you get up and you're at, you know, if you're up at eight o'clock in the morning or seven o'clock in the morning, whatever it is, you almost have to eat dinner like at five.
02:38:35.000 Yeah.
02:38:35.000 Yeah, that's the problem.
02:38:36.000 You have to either fast in the morning or you have to eat early, which is really hard for working people.
02:38:42.000 Nine to fivers, yeah.
02:38:43.000 I mean, it's like you're eating breakfast before you go to work, unless you're not.
02:38:47.000 Right.
02:38:48.000 And that's kind of the problem for people that are going, you know.
02:38:51.000 Which is most humans.
02:38:52.000 Yeah, I see.
02:38:53.000 We have a, you know, life is kind of different now.
02:38:56.000 But it's, you know, there are people that we're talking about, they just take their breakfast to work and they wait.
02:39:01.000 So they'll wait till like 10 o'clock to eat or something like that.
02:39:04.000 Yeah.
02:39:04.000 Because also there's people that like to go to the gym after work.
02:39:07.000 And so there's more time.
02:39:08.000 It's like...
02:39:09.000 You've got to race this clock.
02:39:10.000 I've got to eat.
02:39:11.000 So really, if you can start the clock later, if that's possible, for people that are working like that, that don't have flexible hours, then it would be better to start the clock later.
02:39:21.000 And there's a lot of human data on this, just looking at the associations between people that eat within an 11-hour period and fast for 13 hours.
02:39:32.000 For example, women that do that, that have already had breast cancer, they reduce their breast cancer risk Wow.
02:39:39.000 Yeah, because it causes insulin sensitivity.
02:39:43.000 It lowers IGF-1 levels.
02:39:46.000 It lowers all these hormones and things that are known to promote cancer growth.
02:39:50.000 It's really a powerful thing and improves metabolism.
02:39:53.000 Really improves metabolism.
02:39:55.000 And that's something that a couple of scientists that I've talked to that are at UCSD are looking at and actively seeing.
02:40:02.000 It seems to be really important.
02:40:04.000 Now, obviously, people doing shift work, like nurses, are kind of, I mean, that's the problem.
02:40:08.000 Yeah, they're kind of fucked when you're doing that late shift stuff.
02:40:11.000 And they are.
02:40:11.000 They have twice the cancer incidence.
02:40:13.000 Really?
02:40:14.000 Yeah.
02:40:14.000 Twice?
02:40:15.000 Twice.
02:40:16.000 Wow.
02:40:16.000 Shift workers, they're also much more likely to be type 2 diabetic.
02:40:20.000 Wow.
02:40:20.000 Because you're eating like when you're at night.
02:40:25.000 Your metabolism is all screwed up.
02:40:28.000 Not only are you like when you're eating after the 12 hour clock, are you not as insulin sensitive and so your blood glucose levels are higher.
02:40:36.000 Also, you're confusing your clock.
02:40:38.000 So kind of like it says, okay, I'm restarting now because it's late.
02:40:41.000 I'm getting my first signal in.
02:40:43.000 It's been after 12 hours and it confuses it.
02:40:46.000 So then when you go to sleep, say you eat at 2 in the morning, you go to sleep and you wake up the next morning and you have your meal, it's already going to have started that clock a while ago.
02:40:54.000 So you won't be as insulin sensitive because the earlier in the day, the more insulin sensitive you are.
02:41:00.000 So you know what I mean?
02:41:00.000 So you're kind of like confusing the clock.
02:41:03.000 It's like this...
02:41:05.000 A very complicated but I think important mechanism and system for people to understand.
02:41:11.000 And time-restricted eating, I have really implemented that because I think that's something that also will affect the aging process.
02:41:19.000 I've talked to people at conferences I've given a talk at that have come up to me afterwards and they're talking about how they've been on a ketogenic diet for two years and how they've reversed their type 2 diabetes.
02:41:30.000 It's been great.
02:41:32.000 But still, their fasting blood glucose levels were still on the high end, even though they're no longer type 2 diabetic, which is really good.
02:41:40.000 And they started doing the time-restricted eating where they were eating within a 9-hour window, and it completely resolved it.
02:41:46.000 Completely resolved it.
02:41:47.000 And I've actually had multiple people tell me that.
02:41:50.000 That's insane.
02:41:51.000 And the amazing thing is the increase in muscle...
02:41:54.000 The muscle is really the interesting part.
02:41:57.000 I would like to talk to Sachin more about that and have him do more experiments if possible.
02:42:03.000 Because we didn't dive as much into that on the podcast when we chatted.
02:42:07.000 But he is such a phenomenal scientist and he's very...
02:42:10.000 Very proactive and into health and all this, you know, preventative medicine.
02:42:14.000 And he's just a great, great person.
02:42:17.000 Where is he out of?
02:42:17.000 The Salk Institute in La Jolla.
02:42:19.000 Very prestigious place to be.
02:42:21.000 There's a lot of really good scientists there.
02:42:22.000 Did you do your podcast with him through Skype?
02:42:26.000 No, I met with him.
02:42:27.000 You're down there.
02:42:27.000 You're down in San Diego, right?
02:42:29.000 Yeah, I usually try to, I like to meet with people when I interview them.
02:42:33.000 Yeah, me too.
02:42:34.000 So I've noticed.
02:42:36.000 Yeah, I can't, like, I've done Skype ones and they're just, it's like, there's a disconnect.
02:42:41.000 There's something missing.
02:42:42.000 Yeah, so what's nice for you is you actually have a studio and people come to your studio.
02:42:46.000 So right now I'm going around to institutes and if I'm at a place where I'm giving a talk and I'm like, there's great scientists there, I'm going to ask people to interview you.
02:42:56.000 How do you spell his name?
02:42:57.000 S-A-T... C-H-I-N Sachin Panda.
02:43:03.000 What a great name.
02:43:05.000 Yeah.
02:43:06.000 Actually, his first name is Sachin Dananda.
02:43:08.000 What?
02:43:09.000 Because he's Indian, so he shortened it to Sachin.
02:43:12.000 But he's...
02:43:14.000 He's a really good person to talk to, too.
02:43:17.000 He speaks eloquently.
02:43:20.000 He explains things.
02:43:21.000 He's a little bit of an Indian accent, but it's kind of cute.
02:43:27.000 But his science has changed my life.
02:43:29.000 All of my circadian knowledge, I've been following him for a few years.
02:43:35.000 I've really looked up to him.
02:43:36.000 In fact, I don't even know if I told him this, but I was interested in doing a postdoc with him.
02:43:40.000 At a certain point, like after I had finished my PhD, because I thought his...
02:43:43.000 He was back in 2012 when I graduated, he was making these discoveries about late night eating and how it makes you more...
02:43:53.000 So you're basically more insulin resistant, how it's like screwing up brain function too, all these things that I didn't even talk about.
02:44:01.000 I got really interested in it because I know a lot of people that eat late at night.
02:44:04.000 And people that are having trouble losing weight and all that, they're eating late at night.
02:44:09.000 Wow, that's amazing.
02:44:11.000 I'm going to listen to this podcast with you, or your podcast with me rather, and check that out.
02:44:16.000 That sounds awesome.
02:44:18.000 That'd be cool.
02:44:19.000 So the saturated fat sugar is what you wanted to...
02:44:22.000 You wrote that down.
02:44:22.000 Yeah, I did because you actually sent me an article about that, which I found was really fascinating.
02:44:28.000 Although saturated fat is important, how would you describe it?
02:44:32.000 Is it a precursor to hormones?
02:44:35.000 It's not just a precursor to hormones.
02:44:37.000 So saturated fat increases LDL cholesterol, LDL lipoproteins, which carry cholesterol and fatty acids.
02:44:47.000 We always call it cholesterol.
02:44:50.000 It's a transporter of cholesterol, but it also transports fatty acids and other things.
02:44:54.000 But the thing is, the LDL It's very, very important because every time you make a new cell in your body, which is happening constantly, you're always making new immune cells, you're making new kidney cells, you're making new liver cells.
02:45:08.000 I mean, it's happening all the time.
02:45:11.000 Anytime you make a new cell, you need LDL there to transport cholesterol.
02:45:16.000 Yeah.
02:45:32.000 You really, really need LDL cholesterol.
02:45:34.000 It's very important for that reason.
02:45:36.000 And without it, you're kind of screwed, right?
02:45:39.000 I mean, you can't repair damage as well.
02:45:41.000 You're not going to make as many new cells.
02:45:43.000 So all these people that are avoiding saturated fats and cholesterol in their diet, they're literally doing their cell regeneration a disservice.
02:45:55.000 Well, I don't want to make that broad statement because I don't know what else.
02:45:57.000 Maybe they're getting other types of fatty acids that also help.
02:46:01.000 But yes, people that are on statins, for example, which is a very broad way of inhibiting cholesterol synthesis.
02:46:15.000 We're good to go.
02:46:39.000 And he was telling me that it's like toxic to mitochondria and he's trying to figure out why.
02:46:45.000 It's like maybe that's partly why it's also causing muscle wasting.
02:46:51.000 So if people don't consume saturated fats or they lower their radically lower the saturated fat in their diet, how does their body produce new cell membranes?
02:47:03.000 Well, I mean, you still, you're making cholesterol, you know, in your body, and you're making it from, they're getting fatty acids.
02:47:10.000 They're getting it from plants, I mean, plant sterols.
02:47:13.000 They're getting them from other sources, you know.
02:47:15.000 But I think the problem with the saturated fat was, it's not so much that, because people still get it to some degree.
02:47:24.000 I mean, it's like...
02:47:25.000 But it's not optimum.
02:47:27.000 Yeah.
02:47:27.000 I mean, I don't know.
02:47:29.000 I'd have to see, like, the person.
02:47:31.000 I think it varies depending on what else they're eating.
02:47:33.000 But, you know, I think the problem was that saturated fat was demonized.
02:47:38.000 Well, it was demonized in a very corrupt way, which is the recent New York Times article that was released, which is a mind blower, which...
02:47:47.000 It detailed how the sugar industry had bribed scientists to release data blaming saturated fat for heart disease and obesity and all these issues when it was in fact sugar that was causing all that.
02:48:00.000 So they were literally rigging the system and paying scientists and it was a horrible article because That propaganda and these lies that they spread, I believe it was in the 50s?
02:48:12.000 Here it is.
02:48:12.000 How the sugar industry shifted the blame to fat.
02:48:15.000 And it's, if you get a chance and you want to feel sick at what can be done with money, watch or read that.
02:48:22.000 Because it's just, it's awful.
02:48:24.000 It is really awful.
02:48:27.000 And it was an internal sugar industry document that was discovered by a researcher at the University of California in San Francisco, and it was published, it said Monday when this was out.
02:48:36.000 I believe it was a couple of months ago.
02:48:38.000 But it was amazing.
02:48:40.000 It suggested that five decades of research into the role of nutrition and heart disease, including many of today's dietary recommendations, may have been largely shaped by the sugar industry and propaganda and money.
02:48:52.000 They spent money to literally bribe scientists to release false data.
02:48:58.000 It's horrible.
02:48:59.000 It's really nasty.
02:49:00.000 But I mean, the thing is...
02:49:02.000 And not that much money either.
02:49:03.000 Go back to it.
02:49:04.000 They paid three Harvard scientists the equivalent of $50,000 in today's dollars to publish a 1967 review of research on sugar, fat, and heart disease.
02:49:15.000 The studies used in the review were handpicked by the Sugar Group in the article, which was published in the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine, minimized the link between sugar and heart health, And cast aspirations on the role of saturated fat.
02:49:27.000 Even though the influence peddling revealed in documents dates back to nearly 50 years, more recent reports show that the food industry has continued to influence nutrition science.
02:49:37.000 This had such a negative...
02:49:41.000 There were such negative consequences from this, from the demonization of saturated fat, because people then...
02:49:50.000 Obviously started eating more refined, like for breakfast in the morning, instead of having eggs, you're having like cereal.
02:49:56.000 But the real problem was the trans fats, because trans fats can have similar, but they're hydrogenated fats, which, you know, you take like a monosaturated fat and hydrogenate it, and you can have similar properties as a saturated fat, like butter, how it's solid,
02:50:11.000 and then, you know, melts at a higher temperature.
02:50:15.000 But these trans fats...
02:50:16.000 I mean, I remember my mom had a big tub of margarine.
02:50:20.000 We used to put margarine on our mashed potatoes.
02:50:22.000 And everybody thought it was healthy.
02:50:24.000 And it was so...
02:50:26.000 I mean, it's not just unhealthy.
02:50:28.000 I mean, it was literally...
02:50:29.000 It causes heart disease because the trans fats...
02:50:32.000 Like I said, you take these fats up into your new cells, right?
02:50:35.000 Because that's part of what fatty acids and cholesterol...
02:50:38.000 That's part of what you're doing with them in your body.
02:50:40.000 The trans fats get taken up and the whole structure of it's screwed up.
02:50:43.000 So when this happens in the endothelial cells lining your blood vessels, it makes them real stiff.
02:50:48.000 Real stiff.
02:50:49.000 And like, I mean, it just like screws it up.
02:50:51.000 So trans fats are like...
02:50:52.000 We have known about the fact that trans fats are playing a causal role in heart disease for like decades.
02:50:59.000 And the FDA finally, in 2015, okay, finally banned them from the U.S. and gave...
02:51:07.000 All the companies that are still putting them in their processed foods and a lot of fast foods companies use like Crisco because it's cheaper.
02:51:13.000 Three years to get it off the market.
02:51:15.000 So we have until 2018. Jesus Christ, three years to get rid of poison.
02:51:19.000 And that's after already like decades of knowing.
02:51:22.000 It's like, you know, that this is like, it's like so bad.
02:51:26.000 So, so bad for you.
02:51:29.000 Anyways, that's one of the major repercussions.
02:51:33.000 Then, obviously, people became scared of saturated fat.
02:51:37.000 The thing with the sugar, and this is kind of what you were initially hinting at, is that there have been a lot of studies that weren't corrupt by the sugar.
02:51:49.000 These were the early studies, but there have been studies that have linked saturated fat intake to heart disease.
02:51:53.000 And a lot of those studies were also because people were eating, in addition to saturated fat, they didn't correct for, like, refined sugar intake, which is really what the problem is.
02:52:04.000 And that has now been shown in multiple studies.
02:52:07.000 And this came down to actually being able to have new technology available that was able to then...
02:52:13.000 You know, LDL is not, there's not just one LDL, you know, cholesterol.
02:52:17.000 And the body comes in all sizes.
02:52:19.000 And the type that we were talking about, the good type, is the large, buoyant type.
02:52:23.000 And that's what saturated fat increases.
02:52:25.000 There's also, it gets processed into smaller parts that are small, dense LDL. And that's what gets, basically, it can't get recycled back to the liver.
02:52:34.000 So it stays around the bloodstream and undergoes inflammatory transformations and sticks in the blood vessels.
02:52:38.000 It causes all this problem, right?
02:52:40.000 That's what refined sugar increases, and that's been shown in clinical studies.
02:52:44.000 So healthy young men that were given 20 ounces of soda a day for three weeks, totally healthy young men increased their small, dense LDL particles, massively increased their small, dense LDL particles, and also increased their inflammatory markers,
02:53:00.000 C-reactive protein, by almost 100%, which is crazy.
02:53:06.000 We're talking about like, you know, the refined sugar is what can make saturated fat dangerous when you combine the two because the LDL gets processed into the small dance and it's refined sugar that does that.
02:53:18.000 So small, dense LDL versus LDL. Yeah, and so the thing is, is that even now, it's not standard of care to measure all the particle sizes.
02:53:27.000 It's like, we've known about this for at least a decade now.
02:53:30.000 So Ron Krause, he's the guy who actually pioneered this assay and figured out how to measure them, the small, dense LDL. It's called the ion mobility assay.
02:53:40.000 I know Quest Labs does it, but you can also ask your physician.
02:53:44.000 I think?
02:53:50.000 Yeah.
02:54:02.000 It puts you at risk for heart disease.
02:54:04.000 And that's just not standard or precarity.
02:54:05.000 You have to specifically ask for it.
02:54:07.000 That's so crazy that there's such a vast difference in the consequences for your health, but yet it's not tested, even though the knowledge is there.
02:54:15.000 Well, that's what I was saying with the trans fat.
02:54:17.000 I mean, the knowledge was there.
02:54:18.000 Like, I was talking to my, like, 88-year-old mentor, Bruce Ames, and he was like, I remember back in the 80s, oh, we stayed away from that and never gave margarine to my children.
02:54:27.000 I'm like, well, you're a scientist.
02:54:28.000 Like, my mom wasn't, you know?
02:54:29.000 Like, he's known about this for, like, when I was, like, five.
02:54:34.000 You know, he's known.
02:54:34.000 He's known it for 30 fucking years.
02:54:36.000 That's insane.
02:54:37.000 And now 2015 is when, you know, there's always a lag between research and the application of it, but I mean...
02:54:45.000 Not that much of a lie.
02:54:46.000 I don't know what it takes to, you know, maybe these regulatory committees, there's probably a lot more than I know that goes into, like, figuring out, like, how you make these regulations.
02:54:54.000 But it's only financially motivated.
02:54:56.000 That's what's disgusting about it.
02:54:57.000 They're giving these companies three years to get poison out of food.
02:55:01.000 That is what really upsets me.
02:55:03.000 I'm like, okay, you finally, finally have banned it in the U.S., but you're giving three years?
02:55:08.000 Like, Three years for people to profit off of poisoning, folks.
02:55:11.000 Yeah, killing people.
02:55:12.000 Yeah, and not letting them know.
02:55:13.000 I mean, you should have a fucking cancer recommendation or a warning, the same way you have on cigarettes.
02:55:18.000 Yeah, and it's not even, like, you can go, like, people go to the supermarket and they'll say no trans fats on their food and all that, but when they go to fast food or they go to some, like, restaurant where they're using Crisco, they're not even going to know they're getting it.
02:55:30.000 Yeah, they're not even telling you.
02:55:33.000 This was awesome.
02:55:34.000 Oh, man.
02:55:35.000 Totally.
02:55:35.000 Goddamn Rhonda Patrick.
02:55:36.000 I loved it.
02:55:37.000 This was great.
02:55:38.000 You blow my mind every time.
02:55:39.000 This is amazing.
02:55:40.000 There's a lot to study, folks, so go over this podcast 30 or 40 times, and I know I'm going to go over it a few.
02:55:48.000 FoundMyFitness on Twitter.
02:55:50.000 Your podcast is FoundMyFitness.
02:55:52.000 Yeah.
02:55:53.000 I have a podcast.
02:55:54.000 It's called Found My Fitness.
02:55:55.000 And actually, I just released a podcast today with Dr. Roland Griffiths, who is the notorious psychedelic psilocybin researcher.
02:56:04.000 I met with him when I was at Johns Hopkins.
02:56:06.000 Amazing.
02:56:07.000 Outside of my realm, but you should listen to it.
02:56:10.000 It's interesting.
02:56:10.000 I will.
02:56:11.000 I will definitely do that.
02:56:12.000 And let's do it again soon.
02:56:13.000 It's been too long.
02:56:14.000 So much fun.
02:56:15.000 Thank you so much.
02:56:16.000 Thanks, Joe.
02:56:16.000 Appreciate it.
02:56:16.000 All right, folks.
02:56:17.000 We'll see you.
02:56:17.000 Bye!