The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #939 - Chris Cage

00:00:00.000 Sound good?

00:00:00.000 Yeah, we're good.

00:00:02.000 Five, four, three, two...

00:00:05.000 That was like, you didn't do the thumb.

00:00:10.000 I wasn't sure it was their finger button.

00:00:12.000 Chris, what's up, man?

00:00:13.000 How are you?

00:00:14.000 Good, man.

00:00:14.000 How you doing, Joe?

00:00:15.000 Thanks for doing this.

00:00:16.000 For people tuning in right now, Chris is the author of How to Hike the Appalachian Trail.

00:00:23.000 And he's also, I've talked about these on the podcast before, this is his company.

00:00:27.000 He's not a sponsor.

00:00:28.000 There's a company, Green Belly Meals, and these are these really delicious bars that weigh like 50 pounds.

00:00:37.000 They're like a brick filled with nutrients and food, and they're really good for people who do this crazy Appalachian Trail thing.

00:00:45.000 These bars that you sell have become very popular with hunters and people that like to go on backpack journeys deep into the backcountry.

00:00:54.000 And I found out about you from Rich Outdoors podcast.

00:01:00.000 And that's where I listen to you on his podcast, and that's why you're here.

00:01:05.000 That's why I got your book here.

00:01:07.000 Thanks, Cody.

00:01:07.000 Love the podcast.

00:01:08.000 Yeah, it's a good podcast. 0.98

00:01:09.000 So, what the fuck, for people who don't know the Appalachian Trail, we've talked about this on the podcast before, but it's a trail where people walk from Georgia, right, all the way up to Maine. 0.98

00:01:20.000 Or vice versa, but yeah. 1.00

00:01:22.000 Yeah, vice versa, if you want, if you're a madman. 0.84

00:01:25.000 And it takes you, how many months? 0.96

00:01:28.000 Five to seven.

00:01:29.000 Took me a little over six.

00:01:32.000 So you just hike for six months. 0.98

00:01:35.000 When you're at like month three, do you ever go like, what the fuck am I doing? 0.96

00:01:41.000 Long story short, yeah. 0.80

00:01:43.000 And by month three, I was actually approaching wintertime.

00:01:46.000 And, you know, wintertime camping is just a fundamentally different experience.

00:01:51.000 So not only have you been hiking that long, and you're tired, and your body's just, you know, just done doing it every day of hiking, but then the elements of the winter come in, and that was a different ballgame entirely, you know?

00:02:04.000 How many people have done this?

00:02:07.000 Less than 10,000. 1.00

00:02:09.000 That's a lot of fucking people. 1.00

00:02:11.000 Yeah, it is. 1.00

00:02:11.000 That's still a lot. 1.00

00:02:12.000 I would have said like 50. There's another thing called the Triple Crown, which is the AT Pacific Crest Trail and the Continental Divide Trail.

00:02:22.000 And I think less than 100 people have done all three of those.

00:02:25.000 The Pacific Crest Trail.

00:02:27.000 Is that the one that goes from like Mexico?

00:02:29.000 To Canada.

00:02:30.000 It's through California.

00:02:33.000 That's insane.

00:02:34.000 How long did that one take?

00:02:36.000 I think, so the Appalachian Trail is 2200 miles, and the Pacific Crest Trail I believe is like 25, 26, 2700 miles, but the trail gradient is a lot easier.

00:02:48.000 So I think like on any given day you can actually hike more miles, even though the trail is longer than the AT, but I think people actually finish it faster than the AT. I like how you call it the AT. That's inside lingo with all you maniacs, all you hiking maniacs.

00:03:03.000 What the fuck got you into this, man? 1.00

00:03:06.000 I'd say, long story short, Boy Scouts, yeah. 1.00

00:03:11.000 I joined Boy Scouts later than most people.

00:03:12.000 I joined when I was 14. The pinnacle of the Boy Scout career is getting your Eagle Scout.

00:03:21.000 I joined with that in mind.

00:03:23.000 I was like, okay, I'm joining later than most.

00:03:24.000 I joined when most people are quitting Boy Scouts.

00:03:27.000 They go from Cub Scouts to 13 and they quit.

00:03:29.000 I joined and I was like, alright, I want my Eagle Scout, and you have to, in order to get your Eagle Scout, spend 20 nights in the woods.

00:03:37.000 Not consecutively, but you have to get your camping merit badge and get your camping merit badge.

00:03:42.000 You have to spend the night, 20 nights in the woods.

00:03:44.000 So, you know, that was in Georgia, and the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains are in North Georgia.

00:03:53.000 So the beginning of the Appalachian Trail is also right there.

00:03:57.000 So we went on several trips up there in North Georgia, and I got exposed to it.

00:04:04.000 And I think just the idea of getting on this small trail and kind of looking down and understanding that this thing goes on for 2,000 more miles was just kind of like...

00:04:18.000 One, that just seems crazy, right?

00:04:20.000 You know, there's no way I'm ever going to have enough time or kind of the drive to do that.

00:04:25.000 But yeah, there was definitely kind of the mystery.

00:04:28.000 I was like, oh man, that just seems like an adventure I want to do.

00:04:31.000 So yeah, that was definitely the beginning of it when I was about 14 years old, going up there and hiking on it for overnight trips.

00:04:38.000 Now, how does one fund something like this?

00:04:40.000 Because I would assume you either have to be independently wealthy or you have to have squirreled away enough money so you can walk for seven months and feed yourself in the process.

00:04:51.000 Or did you work along the way?

00:04:53.000 I mean, you can't...

00:04:54.000 What do you do?

00:04:55.000 I think there's a big misconception that hiking AT takes a lot of money, but in reality it's like, what are your expenses?

00:05:02.000 It's just food and then gear ahead of time.

00:05:06.000 Most hikers are kind of known as the athletic hobo.

00:05:13.000 Grimy.

00:05:13.000 They're not spending money on hotels.

00:05:15.000 There's no accommodation.

00:05:16.000 There's no car payments.

00:05:18.000 You know, they're walking.

00:05:20.000 So you can really eliminate all expenses when you do that.

00:05:23.000 But, I mean, for me, I was an accountant.

00:05:26.000 So I'd been an accountant for about two years, and I saved up some money.

00:05:32.000 And I basically knew that I wanted to hike the AT, so I started saving up some money.

00:05:38.000 Any given thru-hiker, that's what they're called, anybody that starts in Georgia, ends in Maine, or Maine to Georgia, anybody that does that hike in one consecutive run is called a thru-hiker.

00:05:52.000 But any thru-hike, I would say it takes about $5,000 from gear to sleeping in hotels about once a week to resupplying food.

00:06:02.000 So if you think about $5,000 for six months of living, like...

00:06:06.000 That ain't too bad.

00:06:07.000 You know, you think about $5,000 for six months of living in the real world, like, I've never lived that cheaply, you know?

00:06:13.000 Right.

00:06:14.000 Well, it's not that bad, no.

00:06:16.000 But, like, you're saying hotels once a week, so what would merit a hotel stay?

00:06:21.000 Ferocious weather?

00:06:22.000 Like, what...

00:06:24.000 A lot of things.

00:06:25.000 So you typically are within five to seven days of a town.

00:06:29.000 So the trail kind of, you know, goes along the mountains and then about every five to seven days you come to a trail crossing, which is a highway or anything that would lead to a nearby town.

00:06:42.000 And every five to seven days, you're out of food.

00:06:45.000 That's the biggest thing that I think pulls you into town is you need to resupply.

00:06:49.000 So you're not out there foraging for nuts and berries or hunting or anything like that.

00:06:54.000 You're relying on getting to town, getting to a grocery store, and getting all your food.

00:07:00.000 So every five to seven days, you go into town and you get food.

00:07:03.000 It's like, oh man, I also haven't showered in five to seven days.

00:07:07.000 I also haven't done laundry in five to seven days.

00:07:09.000 And you're hiking with Really one change of clothes.

00:07:14.000 So you can imagine if you're hiking 20 miles a day, the grime and the dirt that can build up.

00:07:19.000 So when you come to town, you want to do laundry, resupply food.

00:07:24.000 You want to stay in a hotel.

00:07:25.000 You want to clean off your body.

00:07:27.000 Your feet are starting to grow stuff.

00:07:30.000 You know, you've been sweating, walking through muddy trails.

00:07:34.000 There's just a lot of grime.

00:07:35.000 When you get to town, it's like a big refresh, you know?

00:07:40.000 But when you make that big refresh, do you ever go, why am I doing this?

00:07:45.000 Yeah, it's kind of ironic.

00:07:47.000 You make the intention of going on the trail to get outside of town and outside of society, but one of the biggest things you look forward to is getting back into town, you know?

00:07:56.000 Yeah, and it's kind of, like you said, when you get to town, it's like, why am I doing this?

00:08:01.000 I was kind of dreading getting back out on the trail a lot of times because it was just so, oh man, I have a hot shower, like I shaved, like, it's just so nice.

00:08:10.000 Yeah.

00:08:10.000 Yeah, the first time I did any camping in...

00:08:14.000 Since the Boy Scouts.

00:08:17.000 You're a Boy Scout? 0.97

00:08:18.000 Yeah, I was a Boy Scout when I was 13 for one summer, but these fucking inner-city creeps that I went to the Boy Scouts with in Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts, which is like... 0.98

00:08:29.000 Now it's more gentrified, but back then it was kind of a shady neighborhood. 0.94

00:08:33.000 Picking on you?

00:08:34.000 Well, they would tie kids up and leave them in the woods.

00:08:38.000 They would tie you up to your bunk and then leave you in the woods.

00:08:42.000 They put toothpaste all over your clothes, which you can't get out. 1.00

00:08:44.000 They're just fucking shitty kids. 1.00

00:08:46.000 It was like a total freefall for all. 1.00

00:08:49.000 It was just really dangerous.

00:08:50.000 Because we went to the woods in New Hampshire.

00:08:51.000 That's where the Boy Scouts would take you up. 0.99

00:08:54.000 And I remember thinking, like, these fucking camp counselors are weird guys. 1.00

00:08:57.000 They're barely paying attention. 0.99

00:08:59.000 And it's basically like all these inner-city teenagers...

00:09:02.000 Street Scouts.

00:09:03.000 Yeah, they're just running rampant.

00:09:06.000 Like, there was a rifle range where they would shoot.22s, and there was an archery range.

00:09:11.000 And I remember I was at the archery range, and I heard... 0.99

00:09:13.000 And I was like, what the fuck is that? 0.99

00:09:15.000 And they go, that's a ricochet. 0.99

00:09:17.000 And I went, what?

00:09:18.000 Alright, check please.

00:09:19.000 And so I decided to just go fishing every day I was there.

00:09:23.000 I would avoid everybody.

00:09:25.000 There was like all those, you know, these things on the agenda that you were supposed to do. 1.00

00:09:29.000 Fuck you. 1.00

00:09:29.000 I just took off and I went and found this pond and I would go to that pond every day for the week that I was up there. 1.00

00:09:36.000 My point being, from that time, from the time I was 13, till 2012, I had not gone camping.

00:09:44.000 And then I went camping in Montana in October, and it was really cold.

00:09:48.000 It was like 9 degrees.

00:09:50.000 And we were out there for 6 or 7 days, and when we went back, we went back to a hotel.

00:09:55.000 And I remember thinking, this is the greatest shower the world has ever known.

00:10:00.000 You don't appreciate showers.

00:10:02.000 Oh, no.

00:10:03.000 Like, probably nobody appreciates a shower like an Appalachian trail hiker, right?

00:10:06.000 Does that make sense?

00:10:07.000 It's pure ecstasy.

00:10:09.000 Yeah, it's like a shower's normal.

00:10:12.000 Like, a normal shower's normal.

00:10:13.000 But it's like, if you had a shower after you're hiking for seven days with muddy feet and your clothes stink and everything's gross and...

00:10:23.000 Yeah, you need that deprivation to appreciate it, you know?

00:10:26.000 You do, right?

00:10:27.000 Because most people don't appreciate showers.

00:10:29.000 Yeah.

00:10:29.000 Yeah, I guess it's like the starving kid needing, you know, when he gets food, he's like, ugh!

00:10:35.000 You know? 0.97

00:10:35.000 Yeah, or like a guy who's just getting out of prison and gets some sex. 0.97

00:10:40.000 Assuming you're not getting any in prison.

00:10:43.000 So, what kind of weirdos do you meet on the trail?

00:10:47.000 You've got to keep in mind, anybody who's willing to take six months out of their life to go to the woods, it's going to be a different breed. 1.00

00:10:54.000 I mean, I think you definitely have your stereotypes.

00:10:57.000 Some people are out there just kind of for the challenge and the, dare I say, athletic side of it, but it's like...

00:11:04.000 There is, right?

00:11:05.000 There's an endurance out of it, right?

00:11:07.000 Sure.

00:11:07.000 It's kind of like, I want to power through this and see how much my body can handle.

00:11:10.000 You get those kind of hikers, but you definitely get the hippie, drop-out-of-life kind of guys, you know, where it's just like, I just want to get out there and get away from society for a little bit.

00:11:22.000 So that kind of stereotype, you definitely, you can get some weirdos out there.

00:11:27.000 Yeah, I would imagine.

00:11:28.000 Have you ever had uncomfortable moments where you're scared to camp with people?

00:11:32.000 No doubt.

00:11:32.000 There was one time...

00:11:33.000 No doubt, man.

00:11:35.000 There was Pennsylvania.

00:11:38.000 So Pennsylvania, a lot of those ex-coal towns, their economy just plummeted. 0.66

00:11:43.000 And the AT goes through a lot of those towns.

00:11:48.000 So you'd have some people near town going out there for an overnighter, and they're what are called shelters.

00:11:53.000 They're like these three-walled wooden structures that are made by, well, all sorts of organizations make them, but in general, they're about every 10 to 20 miles along the AT. So in theory, you can sleep in these every night and not need a tent.

00:12:07.000 I wouldn't recommend that, but you do try to sleep in the shelters as much as possible.

00:12:12.000 But the fact that there are these shelters, a lot of people kind of bottleneck to them because they know they're there.

00:12:19.000 So you will sometimes get to a shelter at night, and it won't only be AT-through hikers there.

00:12:25.000 There will be people from town.

00:12:28.000 But I remember one time in Pennsylvania, there was this couple...

00:12:33.000 Yeah, they were literally, it was pouring rain, so we get there and I was like, there's no way I'm camping out, there's no way I'm hiking on, like I'm sleeping in this shelter, you know, I was drenched to the bone, my gear was drenched, and I was pissed off.

00:12:44.000 It was like midnight, you know, I'd been hiking all day, I was just exhausted.

00:12:48.000 So I was so excited to get to this shelter.

00:12:50.000 And there's a couple, and they are literally yelling at each other.

00:12:54.000 I can hear them for like a mile, just furiously yelling at each other.

00:12:58.000 And you get there, and they are...

00:13:00.000 I never really knew, but I'm assuming they were cracked out.

00:13:03.000 I saw some little glass pieces going in between their hands.

00:13:06.000 And just the way they were acting, he kept throwing up his fists at her.

00:13:10.000 He smashed a bottle on the wall in the shelter.

00:13:14.000 And yeah, he pulled out a knife at one point and it was just like...

00:13:17.000 So are these individual shelters or is it a large shelter?

00:13:20.000 When you say three walls, like how big are these things?

00:13:23.000 I think they're usually maybe...

00:13:25.000 probably about the size length of this table, maybe about 10 feet wide.

00:13:31.000 And there's only one of them?

00:13:32.000 So like you're supposed to share them with all these other people?

00:13:35.000 Yeah.

00:13:35.000 So you're in there with these cracked out people.

00:13:38.000 Luckily, I had three other hiking buddies with me, guys.

00:13:43.000 And the people, like, granted, they were aggressive towards each other.

00:13:46.000 Like, they didn't bother us.

00:13:47.000 And, like, I think by, like, 4 a.m., they hadn't gone to sleep.

00:13:50.000 And we were just like, we were like, dude, can y'all please, please be quiet.

00:13:54.000 Like, I got to get some sleep.

00:13:55.000 And then that was the worst one.

00:13:58.000 Other than that, I think everything was pretty safe.

00:14:02.000 There was nothing too terrifying.

00:14:04.000 How did it play out?

00:14:05.000 We left the next morning.

00:14:07.000 Did they eventually go to sleep?

00:14:10.000 You know what?

00:14:10.000 I don't even remember.

00:14:11.000 I think at 4 a.m.

00:14:12.000 I was so exhausted.

00:14:14.000 They were still yelling at each other.

00:14:16.000 I was just out.

00:14:17.000 Do you remember what they were yelling?

00:14:19.000 Is this one of those shelters?

00:14:21.000 There you go.

00:14:22.000 Yeah, that's one of them.

00:14:23.000 Wow, that's a dope looking little place.

00:14:25.000 It's kind of cool.

00:14:26.000 It's all made out of logs.

00:14:28.000 Yeah.

00:14:28.000 And it's got kind of a tin roof.

00:14:30.000 Is that like a tin sheet roof?

00:14:33.000 Yeah, they vary a lot.

00:14:34.000 I mean, you'll get all wood.

00:14:36.000 You know, you sometimes won't even get logs.

00:14:38.000 Yeah, there you go.

00:14:38.000 You can scroll up and see all the other kinds.

00:14:40.000 And those are for the hikers?

00:14:42.000 Is that what they're for?

00:14:43.000 Yeah.

00:14:45.000 So they've anticipated, there's so many people that do this trail, that they've made these shelters.

00:14:51.000 I've heard of these things in New Zealand.

00:14:53.000 Yeah, New Zealand has them too.

00:14:54.000 Yeah, they have them and they stock food in them and they leave a log so that hikers can write down.

00:15:01.000 Like my friend Remy, Remy Warren was in New Zealand and he used one of those and like wrote in the log, you know, where he was from, when he was there.

00:15:09.000 And I guess it also helps identify if people are missing.

00:15:14.000 Exactly.

00:15:14.000 Yeah, I think it's a safety precaution.

00:15:16.000 So, you know, you can kind of track down where was the last person seen, you know, where were they last seen.

00:15:20.000 So if they were, if they logged into, you know, shelter, and then, you know, they can't find them, they can say, okay, on this date, we know that they were here.

00:15:27.000 So you can give a given radius and know that if they are missing, they're within, at least within a certain, you know, 20 miles of walking distance of there.

00:15:35.000 But yeah, and I think those things actually turn into like, just fun, you know, some people just go Write full-on poems in there, some confessed life stories in there.

00:15:46.000 Oh, God.

00:15:47.000 Oh, God.

00:15:48.000 Yeah, the trail logbooks are entertaining, no doubt.

00:15:51.000 Wow.

00:15:52.000 Here, warning.

00:15:53.000 What does it say?

00:15:54.000 Harassing bear in camp night of 5-11.

00:15:58.000 Swiped claws in two tents.

00:16:01.000 Stepped on my tent till it collapsed on me.

00:16:04.000 Please be careful.

00:16:05.000 He didn't even try to get the food hanging low on a branch.

00:16:09.000 Oh, look at her name. 0.99

00:16:11.000 Passionflower.

00:16:12.000 Passionflower.

00:16:12.000 Passion flower with sad face.

00:16:14.000 And there's another one.

00:16:16.000 Bear ripped.

00:16:16.000 This is a different person's handwriting.

00:16:20.000 Bear ripped the bag hanging on my pack, which was hanging on my hammock.

00:16:25.000 I was, what does that say?

00:16:28.000 Bouncing?

00:16:29.000 Bouncing up and down.

00:16:31.000 He stole my toilet paper!

00:16:33.000 Exclamation point.

00:16:34.000 What does it say?

00:16:35.000 Subway?

00:16:35.000 That's his name?

00:16:36.000 Subway.

00:16:37.000 Eat fresh.

00:16:38.000 Yeah, P.S. the pivy is great.

00:16:40.000 What's a pivy? 0.99

00:16:41.000 Or privy.

00:16:43.000 It's just like an outhouse.

00:16:44.000 Oh, okay.

00:16:46.000 A compost toilet.

00:16:47.000 How about this one? 1.00

00:16:47.000 Dat shit cray. 1.00

00:16:49.000 All balls, ghetto savior, Baltimore. 1.00

00:16:55.000 What does that even mean? 0.99

00:16:56.000 All balls, ghetto savior, Baltimore. 0.98

00:17:00.000 Okay. 0.99

00:17:04.000 Okay.

00:17:07.000 Well, you're dealing with, like, fringe people, right?

00:17:10.000 I mean, these are people that are just not fitting into the corporate module very well.

00:17:16.000 They walked out on life a little bit, yeah.

00:17:18.000 Yeah, a little bit.

00:17:18.000 But you kind of did too, right?

00:17:20.000 I mean, you said you were an accountant.

00:17:22.000 Yeah, I was an accountant in Birmingham.

00:17:25.000 So I was an accounting major and did that for about two years.

00:17:30.000 I mean, the job was good.

00:17:32.000 Everybody I worked with I liked, but I definitely was able to recognize that I was not going to be an accountant for my life.

00:17:39.000 So yeah, I think I knew I was going to do some transition, try to get another job, do something.

00:17:44.000 And the ATU is kind of like, this seems like the right thing to do, you know, and I'm single at the time, you know, no kids, debt free, like, you know, I didn't have a mortgage, like, time to go.

00:17:55.000 So it just seemed like something this radical, because it's so crazy, committing to a six to seven month hike.

00:18:03.000 Was going to force you to just change existence, change your frequency, the whole deal. 0.92

00:18:11.000 I mean, you're a freak now.

00:18:13.000 You're wandering through the land, you know? 0.99

00:18:16.000 With all due respect.

00:18:18.000 Thanks, Joe.

00:18:19.000 Tell me what you really think.

00:18:21.000 I mean, it's not a bad freak.

00:18:22.000 My best friends are freaks.

00:18:24.000 But it's definitely a freak move, right?

00:18:27.000 No doubt, yeah.

00:18:30.000 It's a very strange subset of human beings that don't, not just drop out, but drop out. 0.94

00:18:38.000 I mean, you're like committing to something that is, I mean, was there ever a time where you were like halfway there where you're like, maybe I'll just get a job in this fucking town?

00:18:47.000 I know some people did that. 0.92

00:18:49.000 I think that was more for financial reasons.

00:18:50.000 It was like, alright, I'm broke.

00:18:53.000 I gotta get some cash flow.

00:18:55.000 But no, man, I think I definitely had kind of like a grind mindset.

00:19:00.000 You're gonna make it.

00:19:00.000 I'm gonna make it.

00:19:02.000 Did you go with a bunch of people?

00:19:07.000 No.

00:19:07.000 I think like 90% of hikers go on the AT alone.

00:19:11.000 And the fact that there are a lot of hikers out there, surprisingly, particularly going north.

00:19:17.000 I think maybe 2,000 people try to go north every year.

00:19:22.000 Wow.

00:19:23.000 So when you're hiking, there's like a gang of people on the trail with you?

00:19:27.000 But if you go south, it changes every year, but 10-15% of people that hike the AT go south.

00:19:33.000 You're going to have much less social circles, stuff like that.

00:19:36.000 But in general, people are hiking around.

00:19:38.000 You're going to meet people.

00:19:39.000 You talk about the shelters.

00:19:40.000 You're going to stumble into people walking by.

00:19:43.000 You're going to meet them in town.

00:19:43.000 You're going to meet them at the shelters.

00:19:46.000 They become your buddies.

00:19:48.000 I think the first night I was on the AT, yeah, I made good friends with two other people and hiked with them for a couple weeks.

00:19:56.000 And then, you know, different paces, you meet up with different people, you might hike with somebody for a month.

00:20:03.000 So it's kind of like you just hike for a little bit with some people, you know, for some giving of time.

00:20:10.000 Wow, what kind of weird stories are they telling you about why they're out there?

00:20:13.000 I mean, how many people are out there just like...

00:20:16.000 Duck in a murder rap or something.

00:20:18.000 Was it, um, is it Eric Rudolph?

00:20:21.000 Which one was he?

00:20:22.000 Eric Rudolph.

00:20:23.000 He ran out in the AT. He was hiding out there for a long time.

00:20:29.000 Oh, yeah.

00:20:30.000 He was like...

00:20:30.000 The Unabomber?

00:20:32.000 No, no, no.

00:20:32.000 That's not the Unabomber.

00:20:34.000 The Unabomber is Ted Kaczynski.

00:20:35.000 Ted Kaczynski.

00:20:36.000 He's that guy that was in...

00:20:37.000 Olympic Park Bomber.

00:20:38.000 Oh, okay.

00:20:39.000 I believe it was Eric Rudolph was found in a dumpster in North Carolina.

00:20:42.000 He had been hiding out.

00:20:44.000 Full-on hiker, homeless look.

00:20:47.000 Beard grown, but he had been...

00:20:50.000 You know, hiding out on the AT. It seems like that would be a place where a lot of people get robbed.

00:20:56.000 Because you know that you have money on you because you have to make this trail.

00:20:59.000 Like, you have to have some cash to buy food and...

00:21:03.000 I never heard anything bad like that happen, honestly.

00:21:06.000 Really?

00:21:06.000 I know that there have been a few murders on the AT. Oh, shit.

00:21:10.000 But you think about any given city, the murder rate, you know? 1.00

00:21:13.000 It's like if you have 2,000 thru-hikers plus, I mean, 100,000 weekend hikers a year, I mean, more than that.

00:21:21.000 It's like the probability, if you think about the AT hikers as a city, like...

00:21:25.000 A murder every few years really isn't bad, you know?

00:21:28.000 That's the same logic that they use for those Foxconn buildings where the people jump off the buildings when they're making cell phones in China.

00:21:37.000 They go, well, you've got to think about how many people work here.

00:21:39.000 Of course, if you kill themselves.

00:21:41.000 It's just a game of numbers at that point, right? 0.99

00:21:43.000 Somebody's going to do it.

00:21:44.000 I guess it is.

00:21:45.000 So were you ever there when any of that went down, when they were looking for a murderer or anything?

00:21:49.000 No, there was a famous case, um, I forgot her name, her hiker name.

00:21:54.000 She had a hiker, wait, hold on.

00:21:56.000 She had a hiker name?

00:21:58.000 Like Passionflower?

00:21:59.000 Alright, Joe, that's what Passionflower was.

00:22:01.000 That's called a trail name.

00:22:02.000 Oh, Jesus.

00:22:03.000 Oh, Jesus.

00:22:04.000 So they're like rappers?

00:22:05.000 Yeah, so you get your...

00:22:07.000 DJ Joe.

00:22:12.000 Yeah, you get your trail name within a week of being on trail.

00:22:16.000 Within a week?

00:22:17.000 Usually. 0.99

00:22:17.000 It's usually if you do something monumental or stupid or something noteworthy is going to get you dubbed a name. 0.99

00:22:25.000 Wow. 0.99

00:22:25.000 Do you want to know my name? 0.99

00:22:26.000 Yes.

00:22:27.000 It was smooth.

00:22:28.000 Smooth?

00:22:29.000 Smooth.

00:22:30.000 So I'd been in New Zealand prior to DAT and I had, talk about not like showering for a week at a time.

00:22:36.000 We're getting real personal here.

00:22:37.000 But I had shaved my legs and I had shaved my body here so I could just like wipe down.

00:22:43.000 Okay.

00:22:44.000 And so when I came on AT, I wanted to do the same thing.

00:22:47.000 I was like, I'm just going to shave my body here so I can literally wipe down at night.

00:22:51.000 And, like, check out for ticks.

00:22:52.000 Like, it just made sense to me.

00:22:56.000 Yeah, I was sitting around a fire early on, like, a couple nights in.

00:22:59.000 And I remember my, like, sweaty legs were, like, glistening in the fire.

00:23:04.000 And some guy was just like...

00:23:06.000 Dude, do you shave your legs?

00:23:07.000 I'm like, uh, no.

00:23:14.000 And then, yeah, smooth just came from there.

00:23:17.000 That's a funny one, man.

00:23:18.000 When a man makes a decision to shave his legs... 0.84

00:23:21.000 Are you?

00:23:22.000 No, I never have.

00:23:24.000 I've shaved some body parts. 0.99

00:23:26.000 I've shaved my butt. 0.98

00:23:27.000 I'm sorry, ladies and gentlemen. 0.99

00:23:29.000 I've shaved my butthole two, perhaps three times. 0.94

00:23:32.000 I just had this conversation with someone about this the other day. 0.98

00:23:35.000 Because, you know, I'm hairy.

00:23:37.000 I'm a hairy dude other than the top of my head.

00:23:39.000 But I get hairy.

00:23:41.000 And so...

00:23:42.000 It's not the best for like keeping clean so one day I was shaving my package and I said let's just get crazy Let's go all the way down there finish it all and I did and one of the things I was shocked was It changes the sound of your farts Did we talk about this on the podcast before?

00:24:00.000 I've heard it discussed on another podcast.

00:24:02.000 Yes, I talked about it, right?

00:24:03.000 Yeah.

00:24:04.000 Yeah, it changes the sound of your farts.

00:24:06.000 They become more duck-like. 0.99

00:24:08.000 Yeah, it's like there's something about your butt hair that muffles them.

00:24:12.000 Not that that's the biggest issue in the world, but also when they grow back, it's quite unpleasant.

00:24:17.000 The grow back process, like the itching and stuff, you know?

00:24:20.000 There's something that happens when your hair starts growing back.

00:24:25.000 When you're like, hey, I didn't think of this.

00:24:28.000 This isn't what I signed up for.

00:24:29.000 Yeah, but that's where I end.

00:24:30.000 I don't go through the legs.

00:24:32.000 But I'm not opposed to it.

00:24:34.000 It seems to me like...

00:24:36.000 There's a problem with why it's an issue.

00:24:40.000 Why is it an issue?

00:24:42.000 I don't know.

00:24:43.000 Is it a sexuality thing?

00:24:45.000 It's a taboo.

00:24:46.000 Yeah.

00:24:47.000 Why?

00:24:47.000 Bring it back, Joe.

00:24:49.000 Why is it okay to shave your head?

00:24:50.000 Why is it okay to shave your face?

00:24:52.000 It's okay to shave all sorts of stuff, but if you start shaving your armpits, dudes who shave their armpits, like, hey, what's going on?

00:25:00.000 Why are you shaving your armpits?

00:25:02.000 But why not?

00:25:04.000 What, do you like hair?

00:25:05.000 You like hairy armpits? 0.99

00:25:06.000 What's wrong with shaving your armpits? 0.96

00:25:08.000 There's something, though. 0.99

00:25:09.000 If your friend yawned, and you're like, hey, dude, where the fuck is your armpit hair? 0.99

00:25:14.000 It would be an issue, right? 0.99

00:25:16.000 You'd start calling, like, hey, man, you see Mike's armpits?

00:25:18.000 Dude, it's weird. 0.99

00:25:19.000 What the fuck's he doing? 0.99

00:25:20.000 You know? 1.00

00:25:22.000 I know dudes that shave their legs, though.

00:25:23.000 But they're, like, super into fitness, and they're, like, you know...

00:25:26.000 Right, if you shave your legs, you want your legs to look good, right?

00:25:28.000 Yeah.

00:25:28.000 Yeah, you don't want, like, big, sloppy...

00:25:31.000 Fucked up looking legs that are shaved also. 0.99

00:25:34.000 Then you let highlight. 0.99

00:25:35.000 Like if you have like these big like blocky tree trunk sloppy legs, you'd want to keep them hairy.

00:25:42.000 That way you look like some sort of a bear.

00:25:44.000 You know?

00:25:46.000 Does that make sense?

00:25:47.000 That's true.

00:25:50.000 Note to self.

00:25:52.000 Note to self.

00:25:53.000 Yeah, there's something about...

00:25:54.000 Here's another thing.

00:25:55.000 You shave your eyebrows.

00:25:57.000 You shave your eyebrows. 1.00

00:25:58.000 Like, who the fuck shaves their eyebrows? 1.00

00:26:00.000 That's weird. 0.99

00:26:01.000 Right?

00:26:02.000 If you decide to shave your eyebrows, people are going to just go, oh, you're one of those guys. 0.99

00:26:07.000 Meanwhile, just a couple inches south, you shave your mustache, nobody gives a shit. 0.99

00:26:11.000 Totally normal. 0.99

00:26:12.000 Seems totally normal.

00:26:13.000 There's something about shaving those eyebrows.

00:26:15.000 Right?

00:26:16.000 That's true. 0.99

00:26:18.000 Yeah, or if you left your mustache and shaved your eyebrows, get the fuck away from me. 1.00

00:26:23.000 What kind of a weirdo are you? 1.00

00:26:25.000 We have weird rules. 0.80

00:26:27.000 What was the weirdest name that you heard anybody get other than smooth?

00:26:32.000 Where to begin?

00:26:35.000 Fartmaster?

00:26:37.000 I think that's pretty self-explanatory how we got that one.

00:26:40.000 One of my favorites was, a buddy of mine I hacked with for a while, his name was Hoverjob.

00:26:45.000 Hoverjob.

00:26:46.000 Hoverjob.

00:26:48.000 So when you get out on AT, you know, it's like...

00:26:51.000 Most people aren't even that familiar with the woods, right?

00:26:53.000 So you start trying to figure out tips and tricks on how to do things.

00:26:57.000 So one of the things is how to use the public facilities.

00:27:00.000 And he was saying he does the hover job.

00:27:03.000 Oh, yeah, that's a good move.

00:27:05.000 Yeah, everybody knows that one, right? 0.99

00:27:07.000 You stop at some gas station somewhere and you got to take a shit, you have to be really careful. 0.99

00:27:11.000 Yeah, you don't want to test that seat. 0.99

00:27:12.000 Now, speaking of ticks, you were talking about ticks.

00:27:15.000 I know Lyme disease is a huge issue on the East Coast.

00:27:18.000 I saw something the other day that was saying this year is going to be a record year.

00:27:21.000 Some walnut hatching season something.

00:27:25.000 I don't know.

00:27:26.000 It's terrifying stuff.

00:27:27.000 I did this show a while back on SyFy called Joe Rogan Questions Everything.

00:27:32.000 One of the things we talked about was mostly conspiracy theories.

00:27:36.000 It was really interesting to find the mindset of these conspiracy people and how they're all very similar, whether it's Bigfoot or aliens.

00:27:44.000 They're really similar sort of Bizarre mindset, the way they look at things. 0.97

00:27:51.000 They have this very compartmentalized, fucked up way of looking at things. 0.86

00:27:54.000 But one of the ones that we studied that was really fascinating is something called Morgellons.

00:28:00.000 Morgellons is a weird disease where people believe that they have these fibers growing out of their skin and they start itching themselves and they create these like legions these scratches and then Things get attached to them like fibers from like perhaps like from a carpet or something like that and they think that they're growing out of their skin and Most people think it's a psychosomatic disorder But one of the guys that I talked to was a doctor who also had Morgellons And he was really very objective

00:28:30.000 about it.

00:28:31.000 And he said there seems to be some sort of a neurotoxic effect that's connected to Lyme disease.

00:28:42.000 And he said that one of the things that these people that have Morgellons have in common, they almost all have Lyme disease.

00:28:48.000 And what he believes is that ticks contain not just Lyme disease, but a host of other different sort of diseases that you can catch.

00:28:59.000 And so because of these Weird, different bacterias and different things that these toxins that these ticks potentially possess.

00:29:09.000 When you get bit by certain ticks, you can actually hallucinate.

00:29:15.000 And he was talking about how we saw a thread moving across his eyeball.

00:29:21.000 Wait, this is real stuff?

00:29:23.000 This isn't sci-fi stuff?

00:29:24.000 No, no, no, it's not sci-fi stuff at all.

00:29:25.000 It's real people.

00:29:26.000 I've never even heard of this.

00:29:27.000 Morgellons? 0.99

00:29:28.000 Yeah, well, it's generally thought to be a psychosomatic disorder.

00:29:31.000 And that's why it was interesting talking to this doctor, because he was saying yes and no.

00:29:36.000 Because he was saying, well, he believes there's a real issue, and that issue is Lyme disease.

00:29:41.000 But that these pathogens that are in these ticks, it's not uniform.

00:29:46.000 They're different in all these different ticks.

00:29:49.000 Some of them are more potent than others.

00:29:50.000 And that there may be a host of different unidentified pathogens.

00:29:54.000 There's not just Lyme disease, but several others.

00:29:57.000 And some of them have a neurotoxic effect.

00:30:00.000 And this neurotoxic effect can induce hallucinations, and some of those hallucinations can be that you think that your body's growing fibers out of it.

00:30:08.000 And he said that he saw it moving across his eye.

00:30:11.000 He goes, I know intellectually that it was not there.

00:30:13.000 He goes, I examined it, I looked at it, it was not there, but I saw it.

00:30:18.000 He personally experienced the hallucination.

00:30:21.000 Yeah.

00:30:22.000 And the other thing is that a lot of these people, they go undiagnosed for long periods of time.

00:30:26.000 Because for the longest time, Lyme disease went undiagnosed and still does.

00:30:31.000 I have a good buddy of mine.

00:30:32.000 Him and his son got bit by ticks when they were fishing.

00:30:37.000 And he brought his son to the doctor.

00:30:39.000 And by then, that bullseye, you know, around that grows around...

00:30:42.000 If you get bit by a tick that has Lyme disease, there's like a bullseye.

00:30:45.000 It looks like a red circle that grows around the area where the tick bit him.

00:30:50.000 And the bullseye had gone away by the time he brought him to the doctor.

00:30:53.000 And so the doctor was incredulous and he's like, I don't believe that's Lyme disease.

00:30:57.000 The kid's going to be fine.

00:30:57.000 And then he started getting Bell's palsy.

00:30:59.000 So half of his face was paralyzed.

00:31:01.000 And that's when they really realized that this, oh my God, this kid has Lyme disease for sure.

00:31:05.000 And then they were in real bad shape. 0.89

00:31:08.000 Like my friend who's skinny as it is, He wound up losing something like 20, 30 pounds, and it fucked with him for close to a year. 0.87

00:31:16.000 The other guys that he was with, they got Lyme disease as well. 0.93

00:31:19.000 Several people they were with got Lyme disease, and they were all fucked up for months.

00:31:24.000 I knew one guy that got it in...

00:31:27.000 I think he went to the doctor and got some shots or antibiotics.

00:31:30.000 I don't know what the treatment was, but he came back like full force and finished the AT. Yeah, you can do that.

00:31:35.000 If you catch it really quick.

00:31:38.000 We had a guy on the podcast, Steve Kotler, who got it and he was undiagnosed for over a year and he wound up being bedridden for three years.

00:31:48.000 Oh my gosh.

00:31:49.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:31:50.000 Because the more it sinks into your system, the more you let it go without antibiotics, without treatment.

00:31:58.000 And again, what this doctor was telling me, I'm just relaying what this one doctor who had Lyme disease was saying, is that he believes that there's a host of different pathogens.

00:32:07.000 There's not just one.

00:32:08.000 And he said there could be many that are undiscovered.

00:32:12.000 Like Lyme disease is fairly recent in terms of its discovery or diagnosis of it.

00:32:18.000 I feel like it's within the last two or three decades at the most.

00:32:22.000 So I would worry about that.

00:32:24.000 Scary stuff, man.

00:32:24.000 Yeah, when you're out there.

00:32:25.000 I don't want that.

00:32:26.000 The risk of Lyme disease on the Appalachian Trail is going to be high this year.

00:32:29.000 Trail life.

00:32:30.000 Oh my god. 1.00

00:32:31.000 How do you read trail life when you're out there and you don't even have a fucking cell phone service? 0.99

00:32:33.000 This article just came out today, though. 1.00

00:32:35.000 Oh shit. 0.99

00:32:35.000 Are you talking about the walnut hatching? 0.99

00:32:38.000 I didn't say specifically that.

00:32:39.000 There's another article when I googled Lyme disease from Connecticut that says that testing on found ticks with Lyme disease is higher this year, more than normal. 0.99

00:32:48.000 Yeah, they're fucking creepy. 0.99

00:32:50.000 Do you get bitten when you go hunting? 0.99

00:32:52.000 You can.

00:32:53.000 I mean, I'm really careful.

00:32:55.000 Real careful to check myself.

00:32:57.000 Also, real careful to keep myself covered up.

00:32:59.000 You know, I wear gaiters.

00:33:00.000 I wear, you know, long, like, merino wool that goes all the way down to my ankles.

00:33:06.000 And then I pull merino wool socks way up over that.

00:33:09.000 I don't have any exposed up to my wrists.

00:33:11.000 And I even wear gloves sometimes, even in the heat.

00:33:13.000 I wear, like, a thin layer glove.

00:33:16.000 Also, it's good to protect your hands from the sun, but also to protect your hands from animals seeing that white skin. 0.98

00:33:23.000 You want as little white as you can, that's exposed. 0.92

00:33:27.000 But I think about that primarily, about tics. 0.99

00:33:31.000 It scares the shit out of me. 0.52

00:33:33.000 Yeah.

00:33:33.000 I wonder what percentage of tics actually carry.

00:33:35.000 I feel like I've probably been bitten by 20 tics in my life, you know? 1.00

00:33:39.000 So I'm like, I don't know what percentage of them are carrying it.

00:33:42.000 I definitely got bit by a bunch when I was a kid.

00:33:44.000 But I never got Lyme.

00:33:46.000 But I wasn't around that much when I was a kid.

00:33:48.000 There was a thing about the New York...

00:33:51.000 Upper New York State area being unbelievably infested.

00:33:55.000 Have you ever seen a Lyme disease map?

00:33:57.000 Like a map of Lyme disease infestations?

00:33:59.000 It's in the Northeast, big time, isn't it?

00:34:01.000 Huge.

00:34:02.000 Huge in the Northeast and huge in New York State.

00:34:05.000 Like that upper New York State area.

00:34:08.000 Just really, really devastating.

00:34:11.000 I wonder what that is.

00:34:11.000 Is it related to mice?

00:34:13.000 I don't know.

00:34:14.000 Deer ticks apparently are a big issue.

00:34:17.000 Here it is.

00:34:18.000 Look at that.

00:34:19.000 There you go, Northeast.

00:34:20.000 That's in 2015. But there's a few in California, especially you see Northern California has a bunch.

00:34:26.000 But look at that fucking Northeast, man. 0.99

00:34:28.000 That's just like a zombie plague. 1.00

00:34:31.000 That's awful.

00:34:32.000 Massachusetts is completely covered in it.

00:34:34.000 Look at it.

00:34:34.000 The whole state.

00:34:35.000 New Jersey too, yeah.

00:34:37.000 Covered.

00:34:37.000 Yeah.

00:34:39.000 But, uh...

00:34:40.000 Just a devastating disease, if you don't catch it.

00:34:43.000 But I guess it's spreading across the country.

00:34:46.000 They're finding it in Florida now, new strains in Florida.

00:34:50.000 What other issues do you have to deal with when it comes to, like, bugs and diseases and stuff like that?

00:34:56.000 Giardia?

00:34:57.000 Oh, yeah.

00:34:58.000 So, yeah, I was going to ask you that.

00:34:59.000 How do you get your water?

00:35:01.000 Like, what are you getting?

00:35:04.000 Uh...

00:35:05.000 There's a thing called, um...

00:35:07.000 Basically, you...

00:35:09.000 Freshwater sources, you know, so streams, lakes, ponds.

00:35:13.000 Unfortunately, the East Coast is so wet, you know, you're going to cross over a water source very frequently.

00:35:20.000 Generally, several times a day, you're going to cross at least a stream.

00:35:23.000 So you fill up your water there.

00:35:24.000 You carry two different containers, two bottles, one for dirty, one for clean.

00:35:31.000 So you fill up a liter of dirty water from the stream.

00:35:35.000 A ton of different water purification methods.

00:35:38.000 I don't know if you do it in your backcountry hunting, but the big one I use is Sawyer Squeeze.

00:35:43.000 It's like a nozzle you screw on top of your water bottle so you fill up a dirty water bottle.

00:35:48.000 Screw this water filter off and you squeeze out clean water.

00:35:52.000 That's what I use.

00:35:54.000 And it really works that well?

00:35:56.000 You just squeeze it and the water comes out clean?

00:35:58.000 Yeah.

00:35:59.000 The filtration system is that good?

00:36:01.000 Yeah.

00:36:01.000 Wow, it takes out Jardia?

00:36:04.000 Yes, I think.

00:36:06.000 I'm still standing.

00:36:09.000 But yeah, and then there are like the droplets, which are basically chemicals, right?

00:36:15.000 Chlorine.

00:36:16.000 Yeah, and what else is there?

00:36:18.000 All sorts of filters and chemicals.

00:36:20.000 Some people try to boil it, but that's just a pain.

00:36:22.000 You don't want to boil water all the time.

00:36:24.000 And then wait for it to cool down before you can drink it.

00:36:26.000 Yeah, I will say though, by the end of the AT, you talk about finishing in winter, You know, it's like whenever you stop at these freshwater sources, you know, the water's flowing and I'm, you know, it's like 20 degrees out, 15 degrees, you know, I'm like, I don't want to stick my hand in that freezing water and get my hands cold.

00:36:44.000 I can't heat them back up, you know?

00:36:46.000 Right.

00:36:46.000 So I'll, admittedly, not that I recommend this, but I was, I was drinking it straight, man.

00:36:52.000 Wow.

00:36:53.000 Yeah.

00:36:53.000 That's risky.

00:36:54.000 It was risky, but it was just like, I was so done by the end of it, you know, I was just like, I don't have the patience to stop with freezing fingers, like, so numb, you know, the dexterity is just totally gone, you know, I'm like, ugh, it's just like...

00:37:10.000 Wow.

00:37:11.000 I'll see a doctor eventually.

00:37:13.000 Yeah, I know.

00:37:15.000 Now, when you got to the end...

00:37:18.000 Seven months?

00:37:19.000 Is that what it took you?

00:37:20.000 I think it was...

00:37:21.000 I got off trail for two weeks in between there for some family stuff, but if you took out that two weeks, it was six months I was on trail.

00:37:29.000 So when you get off trail, did you go fly somewhere?

00:37:33.000 Honestly, I went to France with my family.

00:37:35.000 Whoa, that doesn't count. 0.87

00:37:37.000 Dude, and it was like, I was just a human trash can.

00:37:41.000 I was just like, cheese, wine, everything, man.

00:37:44.000 I gained at least 5-10 pounds that week and I was just like...

00:37:49.000 Wow.

00:37:50.000 Just pigging out and enjoying. 0.99

00:37:52.000 You must have enjoyed the shit out of that vacation though. 0.99

00:37:55.000 It was kind of sad. 0.93

00:37:56.000 A lot of guys are getting off trail because they're like, oh man, I'm totally broke and everything.

00:38:00.000 I'm like, I'm going to France for a week or two.

00:38:03.000 So some people get off trail just because financially they can't hack it anymore.

00:38:07.000 Yeah, I mean, you've got a 19-year-old guy who's out of high school that doesn't have any savings.

00:38:12.000 It's like, oh, I'm going to go hike the AT. This sounds like a great idea.

00:38:14.000 They haven't done any research, no planning, don't know anything about gear or anything, but they've read A Walk in the Woods, and they think this is a good idea.

00:38:23.000 What is A Walk in the Woods?

00:38:25.000 It's by Bill Bryson.

00:38:26.000 It's probably the most popular AT book out there.

00:38:29.000 It's like...

00:38:31.000 It's just kind of a funny story.

00:38:32.000 He's a good writer.

00:38:34.000 But he wrote that, I think, in the mid-90s.

00:38:36.000 But that book, if you look at the Appalachian Trail Hikers, it was just like a walk in the woods is released.

00:38:43.000 It was like huge publicity.

00:38:46.000 And have you heard of Wilde, the book, movie, Reese Witherspoon?

00:38:51.000 Yeah, I did hear about it.

00:38:53.000 I never saw it.

00:38:53.000 But yeah, was that a movie about the Appalachian Trail?

00:38:56.000 Pacific Crest Trail.

00:38:57.000 But that was the same thing.

00:38:59.000 It was like the AT is so historic and iconic for long-distance hiking trails that A Walk in the Woods did for the AT what Wilde did for the Pacific Crest Trail.

00:39:08.000 But Wilde was only released a few years ago.

00:39:11.000 But I mean, same thing.

00:39:12.000 It was like Pacific Crest Trail was relatively unknown to hikers.

00:39:15.000 And that book was released and movie.

00:39:17.000 And it was just like...

00:39:19.000 That Pacific Crest Trail is really hot right now.

00:39:21.000 The Pacific Crest Trail, though, is the one that goes from Mexico to California.

00:39:27.000 Or it goes all the way to Canada.

00:39:28.000 Oh, okay.

00:39:29.000 At the top.

00:39:30.000 There's not that much water there.

00:39:32.000 No.

00:39:32.000 Right.

00:39:33.000 You talk about the East Coast being wet.

00:39:34.000 So what do they do there?

00:39:36.000 My understanding is they have big, I don't know the terminology, a big water reservoir, like a big concrete cylinder out in the middle of the desert.

00:39:48.000 And I don't know if it's rainwater or if somebody actually goes out there and fills it up, kind of like a trail angel kind of goes out there.

00:39:57.000 Trail angel?

00:39:58.000 That's another term, too.

00:39:59.000 Trail angel?

00:40:00.000 Trail angel.

00:40:03.000 We'll take a sidestep into Trail Angels.

00:40:07.000 Smooth is going to educate us on the Trail Angel.

00:40:10.000 Go ahead, Smooth.

00:40:11.000 We'll get an AT dictionary going.

00:40:15.000 But yeah, the Trail Angels, that term was...

00:40:17.000 So when you're hiking on the AT, you come to towns and you're like...

00:40:22.000 I need transportation to the grocery store.

00:40:24.000 You know, the grocery store is actually 10 miles away from the trail crossing.

00:40:28.000 Like, okay, does that mean I hike 10 more miles down the highway to get, you know, some groceries, then 10 more miles back?

00:40:34.000 No, you hitchhike.

00:40:35.000 And then you hitchhike in town.

00:40:37.000 That person then becomes a trail angel. 0.99

00:40:40.000 Whoa, but hitchhiking is fucking dangerous. 0.90

00:40:43.000 Have you ever done it? 0.98

00:40:45.000 Maybe in the younger days?

00:40:47.000 I'm trying to think.

00:40:50.000 I definitely got rides from people when my car broke down in Massachusetts.

00:40:55.000 But I don't think I actually hitchhiked.

00:40:57.000 That was desperation.

00:40:59.000 Without the intent, I'm going to get a ride from somebody.

00:41:02.000 No, I never went out there and put my thumb out and said, I'm going to get from here to there by hitchhiking.

00:41:07.000 Never did that.

00:41:10.000 You did.

00:41:12.000 You're a fairly young guy.

00:41:14.000 How old are you?

00:41:15.000 28. 28, yeah, okay.

00:41:17.000 So you're talking about within the last 10 years you hitchhiked.

00:41:20.000 A fair amount. 1.00

00:41:20.000 That's fucking crazy. 1.00

00:41:22.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:41:22.000 That's like when people already know that hitchhiking is a good way to kill folks. 1.00

00:41:26.000 Like, if you want to kill somebody, you go kill some fucking kid with a backpack. 1.00

00:41:29.000 That's the move. 1.00

00:41:30.000 Right, it's a great opportunity to kill, right? 1.00

00:41:32.000 If you're going to be one of those psychos, I would just assume. 1.00

00:41:40.000 Yeah.

00:41:40.000 Everybody was pretty nice, you know?

00:41:42.000 But it's different parts of the country, too.

00:41:43.000 You know, like, if you're gonna go hitchhiking in, like, New York, you're gonna run into some really weird people. 0.99

00:41:49.000 If you're, like, just outside of Manhattan, you got your thumb out, you're trying to get picked up, you might get picked up by a fucking complete psycho. 0.54

00:41:55.000 But if you're in, like, Wyoming or something, and there's, like, no one out there, and you're hiking, and... 0.97

00:42:01.000 Like rural Alabama?

00:42:03.000 Yeah, oof.

00:42:05.000 Pennsylvania with those crackheads screaming at each other in the car. 0.98

00:42:08.000 There are weirdos everywhere.

00:42:09.000 But we'll say like, so before the ATO was in New Zealand, and New Zealand is higher standard of living than the States, and I feel like there's very low crime rate there.

00:42:19.000 And hitchhiking is not taboo there.

00:42:22.000 I always heard that New Zealand was kind of like the States was in the 50s.

00:42:28.000 And it was just kind of like a safe, happy place.

00:42:31.000 There's no crime.

00:42:32.000 Everybody's nice to each other, high standard of living.

00:42:35.000 And in New Zealand, it was like they had...

00:42:38.000 Some bus stops, the equivalent of a bus stop, and it was like a hitchhiking bench.

00:42:43.000 So you would sit there, and people would drive on their way to work, and somebody would be sitting on the bench like, hey, pick me up.

00:42:51.000 But it was systemized.

00:42:53.000 People would hitchhike.

00:42:54.000 So the taboo was kind of broken in New Zealand.

00:42:57.000 It was like, this is normal people.

00:43:00.000 It's economical, it's efficient, why not?

00:43:05.000 It's not something I would ever do, but man, I remember my car broke down once in a snowstorm, and these people took me back to their house, and they were so normal.

00:43:14.000 They were really normal people.

00:43:16.000 And they made me...

00:43:17.000 I was on my way to visit my girlfriend and her mom and her drove to get me at these people's house.

00:43:24.000 And I was in there.

00:43:25.000 I was driving up there and we just got caught in a freak snowstorm.

00:43:28.000 Car broke down.

00:43:29.000 And I remember thinking like, what kind of person just picks someone up and takes them to their house?

00:43:34.000 They're so nice.

00:43:35.000 Must be a weirdo, right?

00:43:36.000 No, they were really nice.

00:43:37.000 They were really nice people.

00:43:39.000 They just took a chance, you know?

00:43:41.000 I guess the fear comes from that, like.01%, right?

00:43:44.000 That's going to do something.

00:43:45.000 It's like, vast majority are, you know, why not?

00:43:48.000 I'm just going to help somebody out.

00:43:50.000 It's the same thing with Airbnb.

00:43:51.000 There was that fear.

00:43:52.000 It was like, oh, there's no way I could let somebody come into my house.

00:43:55.000 Or couchsurfing.

00:43:56.000 You know what couchsurfing is?

00:43:58.000 It's like...

00:44:00.000 Airbnb for free, essentially.

00:44:02.000 You put up your couch on this website and you offer, yeah, say like, I've got a couch.

00:44:08.000 Does anybody want to stay on it?

00:44:10.000 And then you say, I'm coming through on these dates and you request the couch for free.

00:44:14.000 But I remember when that website was really becoming popular about 10 years ago, people had that same idea.

00:44:19.000 I was like, No way, this is only for nutjobs, and then it's like, it's hugely popular now, and Airbnb and all that stuff's like, yeah, let somebody come and stay in your house.

00:44:28.000 Stay with locals and meet travelers.

00:44:31.000 Share authentic travel experiences, as opposed to what, fake travel experiences? 0.91

00:44:35.000 What the fuck does that mean? 0.82

00:44:36.000 Authentic. 0.99

00:44:37.000 Meet new people, explore the world. 0.98

00:44:39.000 Go on a rape binge. 0.98

00:44:43.000 Find a couch. 1.00

00:44:45.000 Oh, find a host.

00:44:46.000 There's a couch.

00:44:47.000 There's a graphic of a couch.

00:44:49.000 So this is, what is this website, Jamie?

00:44:52.000 Couchsurfing?

00:44:52.000 Couchsurfing.com, yeah.

00:44:53.000 But that's what's crazy, is that somebody decided to organize this.

00:44:57.000 They decided to make a website.

00:44:59.000 Every year we support 400,000 hosts, 4 million surfers.

00:45:05.000 I love how I call them surfers. 1.00

00:45:07.000 Imagine if you're a real surfer and you heard this, like, listen, bitch, you're not a fucking surfer. 1.00

00:45:11.000 You don't even have to balance. 1.00

00:45:12.000 You're lying down on some dude's couch.

00:45:14.000 100,000 events.

00:45:15.000 They support 100,000 events.

00:45:17.000 This is crazy.

00:45:18.000 I never knew about this.

00:45:19.000 Yeah, I mean, there are also, like, niche websites that have...

00:45:22.000 So another one...

00:45:23.000 Scroll down, Jamie, that image.

00:45:26.000 Warm showers is another one that's for cyclists.

00:45:30.000 Look at that guy, like, up on the top of the world.

00:45:33.000 Ready for your next adventure?

00:45:35.000 Plan a trip.

00:45:36.000 Stay on my couch.

00:45:37.000 It's very strange.

00:45:38.000 In Paris, you can go surf in Paris.

00:45:40.000 Look, in Paris, you've got fine food and wine and cheese and bread.

00:45:46.000 You can afford that? 1.00

00:45:47.000 You can't afford a fucking hotel room? 1.00

00:45:49.000 That's like a fucking expensive meal right there. 1.00

00:45:52.000 You're looking at some really delicious food. 0.99

00:45:54.000 It's very, uh, this is strange.

00:45:57.000 Because it's very romanticized.

00:45:59.000 Like, this is really organized.

00:46:01.000 This website's super well done.

00:46:04.000 Local hosts and they have avatars.

00:46:06.000 They have images.

00:46:08.000 Reviews.

00:46:09.000 Yeah.

00:46:09.000 Oh my God.

00:46:10.000 Look, it's Lewis.

00:46:11.000 Join Couchsurfing to see Lewis's full profile.

00:46:15.000 It's free.

00:46:19.000 About me.

00:46:20.000 Current mission.

00:46:22.000 Can I host one person only?

00:46:24.000 Wow, this is weird.

00:46:26.000 You can put your couch up, Joe.

00:46:28.000 No, that's not going to happen.

00:46:29.000 I have kids.

00:46:29.000 But it is interesting.

00:46:31.000 I mean, it's like...

00:46:32.000 The good aspects of it...

00:46:35.000 I'm sure far outweigh the negatives.

00:46:38.000 You know, most people are just enjoying themselves, meeting nice people, meeting like-minded people, traveling around.

00:46:46.000 Like my fear, obviously humor aside, but my fears are probably fairly unfounded.

00:46:54.000 But isn't that kind of how it is with life?

00:46:56.000 Most people that you meet, the vast majority of people, are really pretty nice.

00:47:03.000 Well-intentioned.

00:47:04.000 It's a really safe time to be a person.

00:47:08.000 Almost all interactions you have with people on a daily basis are safe and fairly friendly.

00:47:14.000 Even rude people are like, what's the big deal?

00:47:16.000 They say a word?

00:47:18.000 They're not going to harm you.

00:47:19.000 Yeah, almost nothing happens most of the time.

00:47:22.000 But we're so obsessed with the news, where you tune in to any news channel, all you're getting is the collective bad news of 7 billion people, because that's what sells.

00:47:34.000 If it bleeds, it bleeds.

00:47:35.000 Run with it, Mike!

00:47:37.000 And Mike runs with it.

00:47:39.000 Yeah, you know, I mean, this is actually a very...

00:47:42.000 When you really look at it that way, that's a very positive trend that people are doing this and hosting people.

00:47:50.000 Shared economy. 0.60

00:47:52.000 Yeah.

00:47:53.000 That's really nice.

00:47:54.000 It's nice that people will offer up their couch for free.

00:47:58.000 Yeah.

00:48:00.000 It's good stuff.

00:48:00.000 It is good stuff.

00:48:01.000 So do you ever stop and think, like, what if I hadn't gone on this journey of exploration and I stayed an accountant and you would be living that life of the droning existence where every day you're just fucking showing up to the same place and crunching numbers and hating life and wishing for some kind of adventure or something different?

00:48:27.000 No, I can't relate to that.

00:48:29.000 I think no matter what, whether it's AT or something, I'm too impatient.

00:48:35.000 I get bored too easily.

00:48:37.000 I would have done something.

00:48:39.000 But a lot of people don't.

00:48:40.000 A lot of people are like you, and they just never make that move.

00:48:43.000 They never take that chance.

00:48:45.000 I think when I talk to even a lot of my friends that are still doing, I'm not going to call them crappy jobs, but I think they do provide a lot of things that they like.

00:48:54.000 Security, some people love that security, like getting a paycheck.

00:49:00.000 But I don't think they view it like that.

00:49:02.000 It's not like, oh, this may not be the best thing, but I like it.

00:49:04.000 It's not like, I don't know.

00:49:07.000 Some people think, this is so bad, or I just can't, I just have to.

00:49:12.000 I just don't think that threshold ever crosses most people.

00:49:15.000 Yeah.

00:49:16.000 Well, you know, people vary.

00:49:18.000 You know, the personality types that go on that trail, I mean, that's like a very, very extreme personality type.

00:49:26.000 But I think most people have a certain amount of, if not wanderlust, at least curiosity.

00:49:32.000 It's just a matter of how much of it do you nurture.

00:49:37.000 How much of that needed to feed?

00:49:41.000 There's also a real problem in not recognizing the finite nature of existence.

00:49:47.000 When you're 20, especially, or 21, or whatever it is, when you enter into these jobs, you don't realize, hey man, you've only got a few decades of good times.

00:49:59.000 You could do this for 40 years, easily.

00:50:02.000 Oh, easily, easily.

00:50:04.000 And then we've all met those people that have done it for 40 years, and they're just beaten down by life, and they have that dull, desperate look in their eyes.

00:50:13.000 It's just this sadness in their eyes where their life is just, it's not good.

00:50:18.000 It hasn't turned out well.

00:50:19.000 There's not a lot of joy there.

00:50:21.000 Yeah, and hold on to the vacations big time. 0.87

00:50:24.000 Oh, you're scaring the shit out of me, Chris. 0.97

00:50:26.000 You're scaring the shit out of me. 0.98

00:50:28.000 So you, in the middle of doing all this, right? 0.63

00:50:31.000 So you do this, you go on this crazy seven-month adventure, and when it's over...

00:50:37.000 What was that like?

00:50:38.000 When you hit the end, is there like a bell you ring or anything like that?

00:50:43.000 I should put a bell up there.

00:50:44.000 So, I mean, going northbound, there's like this epic Mount Katahdin.

00:50:48.000 It's like a beautiful big mountain.

00:50:51.000 One of the most epic climbs.

00:50:54.000 That's in Maine.

00:50:55.000 So, if you go south, you end in Georgia.

00:50:57.000 And you end on Springer Mountain, which is just not as...

00:51:01.000 Not as epic?

00:51:02.000 Not as dramatic, you know, you're right.

00:51:03.000 So, but, yeah, I mean, you finish it, there's just a plaque, and it's like, dude, you finished.

00:51:07.000 Really?

00:51:08.000 And you touch the plaque?

00:51:09.000 Do you have to touch it?

00:51:10.000 What if you get right before it and you quit? 1.00

00:51:12.000 Like right before, like a foot before, fuck this. 1.00

00:51:14.000 Just collapse. 0.99

00:51:15.000 Yeah, like two feet before the plaque.

00:51:16.000 Yeah, no, I'm good.

00:51:17.000 Does it count?

00:51:17.000 That's it?

00:51:18.000 So that's the main, that's the finish.

00:51:20.000 That's the finish?

00:51:21.000 And, uh, yeah, northbounders.

00:51:24.000 How many people fake it, take a picture of that?

00:51:26.000 Dude, dude.

00:51:27.000 You can go hike that in one day, yeah, for sure.

00:51:31.000 I would probably do that.

00:51:32.000 I'd go hike it in a day and then get that weird feeling of watching these people that are covered in two inches of grime climb up that hill.

00:51:42.000 Can you pull up Springer Mountain?

00:51:43.000 Look at that guy. 1.00

00:51:43.000 That motherfucker. 1.00

00:51:44.000 Look at that guy. 1.00

00:51:45.000 That guy looks like he's been hiking for seven months.

00:51:48.000 Hiker.

00:51:49.000 What's it called?

00:51:50.000 Springer Mountain?

00:51:51.000 Springer Mountain.

00:51:52.000 Look at that guy's face.

00:51:54.000 Jesus Christ.

00:51:55.000 He's just all hair and...

00:51:59.000 There you go, yeah.

00:52:02.000 That's where it starts?

00:52:03.000 Is that the gateway?

00:52:05.000 That's what's called the approach trail.

00:52:08.000 I like how it has an awning.

00:52:11.000 That's the actual plaque on the end, but that's not a great shot of it.

00:52:14.000 There you go, that's it.

00:52:16.000 So that's where it starts?

00:52:18.000 Yep.

00:52:19.000 National Scenic Trail.

00:52:21.000 Now, who established this?

00:52:24.000 So there's a guy named Bitten Makai.

00:52:27.000 Imagine trying to talk people into doing that with you.

00:52:29.000 Like, when you first started doing that, like, what year did this guy do this?

00:52:36.000 I know these dates, but I don't.

00:52:38.000 Let's take a guess.

00:52:39.000 30s?

00:52:40.000 So imagine, 1930s. 0.99

00:52:41.000 Fucking Great Depression. 0.99

00:52:43.000 That old deal. 0.99

00:52:44.000 Those are the people back then.

00:52:45.000 And this guy says, I know what I'm going to do.

00:52:47.000 I'm going to walk all the way up to Maine.

00:52:49.000 And I'm going to start a whole movement.

00:52:50.000 And a bunch of other people are going to do it as well. 1.00

00:52:52.000 They're probably like, fuck you, dude. 1.00

00:52:55.000 Get a job, hippie. 1.00

00:52:57.000 Yeah, the CCC at the time was helping construct all the trails.

00:53:00.000 Look at that.

00:53:02.000 Springer Mountain, Georgia, 8.5 miles.

00:53:05.000 Mount, how do you say it?

00:53:07.000 Katahdin.

00:53:08.000 Katahdin, Maine, 2,108.5 miles. 1.00

00:53:12.000 Those.5 are a motherfucker. 1.00

00:53:14.000 That last.5, oh. 1.00

00:53:17.000 So when you did it and you touched the sign and you're like, alright, I did it.

00:53:21.000 I cried.

00:53:22.000 Did you?

00:53:23.000 I did.

00:53:23.000 I literally collapsed.

00:53:25.000 Wow, like you fell to your knees?

00:53:27.000 It was seriously one of the most emotional times of my life.

00:53:30.000 I would imagine.

00:53:31.000 I was just, yeah, even like that morning I woke up and I was just like, Oh my gosh, this is ending, you know?

00:53:37.000 It's like so much, just so long.

00:53:39.000 I'd been thinking about it from, yeah, I mean, childhood, you know?

00:53:43.000 And then it was like, not only thinking about it for a decade, but then it was actually hiking the darn thing for six months, and it was just like getting there.

00:53:51.000 By that time, I had stress fractures forming in my feet.

00:53:54.000 Really?

00:53:55.000 Yeah, I was just in bad shape.

00:53:56.000 I wasn't sleeping well, because at night, it was getting down to zero degrees every night, and my sleeping bag was not cutting it.

00:54:03.000 So I was just like...

00:54:05.000 It was just a lot, man, you know?

00:54:07.000 Stress fractures in your feet, huh?

00:54:09.000 Yeah, and I had stress fractures from cross-country in high school, so I knew what they felt like.

00:54:15.000 I'm like, oh, this is coming.

00:54:16.000 It's just a matter of time, you know?

00:54:17.000 Now, what kind of hiking shoes did you wear?

00:54:20.000 It seems like your gear would be critical.

00:54:22.000 Big time, yeah.

00:54:24.000 I started off with a brand called Salewa.

00:54:26.000 They're kind of like a technical climbing shoe, actually.

00:54:30.000 But the fact that they are a little more...

00:54:32.000 Stiff?

00:54:33.000 Stiff, exactly.

00:54:35.000 Makes them good for some tough trail.

00:54:38.000 But I switched to trail runners.

00:54:41.000 Do you run?

00:54:42.000 Yeah, I started really, really recently, like a few days ago.

00:54:45.000 Actually, I think I saw you post something on Facebook.

00:54:46.000 You had a rough run. 0.99

00:54:47.000 Fucking terrible at it. 0.99

00:54:49.000 I'd be like a bowling ball. 0.99

00:54:50.000 It's not good for running.

00:54:52.000 I lose some weight if I want to keep doing this.

00:54:54.000 But yeah, I've been running for a few days now.

00:54:55.000 But yeah, I switched to basically just running shoes with a little thicker tread.

00:55:01.000 Like Salomons? 1.00

00:55:02.000 Salomons is a great brand.

00:55:04.000 Yeah, I got those for the very purpose of running up hills.

00:55:07.000 You like them?

00:55:08.000 Yeah.

00:55:09.000 They seem good.

00:55:09.000 They've got good traction to them.

00:55:11.000 Good tread, like a thick tread, but yet they're still built like a running shoe.

00:55:16.000 Very light.

00:55:16.000 Those are good hiking shoes, something that your feet can breathe and give you some cushion.

00:55:20.000 And you don't need any ankle support, you don't feel like?

00:55:22.000 I feel like that's overrated.

00:55:23.000 It's more of a mountaineering thing.

00:55:25.000 Yeah, I think there's kind of this theory that your ankles toughen up.

00:55:29.000 I don't know if that's really true, but I think I kind of fell into that belief that I was rolling ankles so much in the first 100, 200 miles of the trail, and by the end of it, I was just like, just keep going, you know?

00:55:41.000 Yeah, I've always wondered about that because a lot of people that hunt, they wear these really stiff, very tactical mountain hiking boots where they go up.

00:55:53.000 I don't get that.

00:55:54.000 Yeah, they go like 10 inches up the ankle and they lace them up tight.

00:55:58.000 Yeah.

00:55:59.000 I used to go hunting with my dad when I was a kid.

00:56:01.000 We would wear those boots, and looking back, I'm like, I don't get it.

00:56:05.000 Is it just because maybe the brush is just so thick you need something durable to crush through that brush?

00:56:11.000 It's like...

00:56:12.000 I don't think so.

00:56:13.000 What do you wear when you go hunting?

00:56:15.000 Well, it varies.

00:56:17.000 I've never worn running shoes like those, like trail running shoes, but I know some people do wear those, and they like them.

00:56:25.000 And some really good hunters, they wear them exclusively.

00:56:28.000 They wear lightweight trail runners.

00:56:30.000 And even Solomon actually makes a gator.

00:56:34.000 For those trail runners.

00:56:35.000 Yeah.

00:56:36.000 So that you can, for people to know what a gaiter is, a gaiter's like a thing that you slip over your shoes and it cinches down tight so that rocks and dirt and stuff doesn't get deep into your shoe.

00:56:47.000 And I think Kuyu is coming out with a boot that actually has a gaiter built in, which is kind of interesting.

00:56:52.000 But then you can see the Solomon Trail gaiters.

00:56:54.000 Yeah.

00:56:55.000 So the idea is to make sure that you're not getting irritants. 0.96

00:57:00.000 Dirt and pebbles and shit and debris. 0.94

00:57:02.000 Did you ever wear anything like that when you were... 0.99

00:57:05.000 Definitely.

00:57:05.000 Yeah, definitely.

00:57:06.000 Is that a must-have?

00:57:09.000 Some hikers might say kind of roll their eyes at it.

00:57:11.000 I started off rolling my eyes at it, and then it was just like you're saying. 0.99

00:57:14.000 I mean, five times a day, I would get a little pine needle in my sock, and I was just like, damn it. 0.87

00:57:20.000 I've got to get something to keep that going out.

00:57:22.000 I would imagine that you would have an incredible ability to test gear.

00:57:27.000 Nobody would probably know what gear is effective and durable and really, really, like, over the long term.

00:57:35.000 Yeah, totally.

00:57:36.000 And it's like, you know, part of the AT, I've been backpacking for over 10 years, and I thought I was kind of like, okay, I'm pretty familiar with this stuff.

00:57:43.000 And I was like, no, I didn't know anything about backpacking.

00:57:46.000 And yeah, you test everything, you know, and it's like, even after all your research, you start realizing like, hmm, there's a little bit better stuff out there.

00:57:53.000 Or, yeah, I can actually tweak this and improve this and that.

00:57:56.000 But yeah, by the end of it, it's like, anybody who's through hike can get into some real nerdy backpacking gear talk, you know?

00:58:03.000 Well, hunters get into real nerdy backpacking gear talk when they talk about, like, deep-in-the-woods backcountry hunting.

00:58:10.000 Because weight's an issue.

00:58:11.000 Yeah, a huge issue.

00:58:11.000 They chop the ends off of their toothbrushes, you know?

00:58:14.000 That's a big issue with people.

00:58:16.000 You did that, too?

00:58:17.000 Big time, yeah.

00:58:17.000 Wow, that's so crazy.

00:58:18.000 Like, the idea that the bottom of your toothbrush...

00:58:21.000 Every ounce, man.

00:58:22.000 Well, ounces equals pounds, right?

00:58:24.000 Yeah, one thing that got Cody and I talking was, Cody was talking about cutting weight from backpacking.

00:58:31.000 I feel like, my impression at least, you know, when we were talking, I was like thinking, hunters were almost kind of the...

00:58:38.000 The chubby guy in the blind was kind of my idea.

00:58:41.000 When my dad and I would hunt, it was kind of just truly sitting there with blue jeans, and it was just kind of like, oh, all right, there's a duck.

00:58:47.000 Talking to Cody, I think the hunting I was doing was pretty amateur, and Cody was talking about cutting weight significantly, and that hunters have kind of latched on to some of the backpacking ethos, if you will, about shaving every ounce.

00:59:02.000 But it's like, y'all carry so much more gear.

00:59:04.000 Yeah.

00:59:05.000 Weapons, you know?

00:59:06.000 Those things aren't made to count every ounce, I would imagine.

00:59:11.000 It depends on what you're carrying, but there are some lightweight rifles that people use that are like carbon fiber barrels and stuff.

00:59:17.000 But the issue with those is unless you're prone and you're laying down on something, they move a little bit more, and a lot of people think they're not as accurate as a real heavy rifle.

00:59:28.000 Sacrifices.

00:59:29.000 Yeah, they're like a heavy rifle, like a heavy barrel, a thick heavy barrel.

00:59:34.000 And the same thing with bows.

00:59:36.000 It's a weird thing.

00:59:38.000 Some people like heavy bows because you hold steadier.

00:59:42.000 There's the thought behind it that you have something light in your hand and you're shaking a little bit, like maybe your little nerves.

00:59:49.000 You might move around a little bit more, but if you've got something that's really heavy, you'll have more stability when you're executing the shot.

00:59:58.000 Camera equipment, too.

00:59:59.000 Yeah, a lot of guys carry spotting scopes and 15 power binos, and they have 8 to 10 power binos around their neck.

01:00:07.000 8 to 10?

01:00:09.000 Wow.

01:00:11.000 Yeah.

01:00:11.000 Depends on what kind of stuff you use.

01:00:13.000 You know, some people, they'll sacrifice spotting scopes.

01:00:18.000 They won't do that.

01:00:19.000 They won't bring it.

01:00:19.000 But some people also like to film all their stuff.

01:00:22.000 So they bring tripods for filming and a tripod for glassing.

01:00:26.000 Glassing meaning, you know, you lock either binoculars or a spotting scope on a tripod so you get a real steady view.

01:00:34.000 Because it really makes a difference.

01:00:35.000 Like if you see more animals, yeah, if you're holding up like the binos in your hand, you've got to kind of like put your elbows on your knees and you sit down, but it's not as good.

01:00:45.000 Like being on a tripod is the best way, for sure.

01:00:48.000 More heavy equipment. 0.99

01:00:49.000 Then you've got to carry that fucking tripod around. 0.98

01:00:52.000 I think there's a big difference between people that carry their stuff in and then they make a camp versus people that keep their camp on their back all the time. 0.99

01:01:02.000 There's a lot of that, too.

01:01:03.000 There's different kinds of hunting.

01:01:04.000 Do you know the average bag weight?

01:01:06.000 I think Cody was mentioning it was like 60 or 70 pounds.

01:01:09.000 Do you have any idea?

01:01:10.000 Yeah, a lot of guys will carry in 60, 70 pounds.

01:01:13.000 That's pretty standard.

01:01:14.000 But again, these guys are not carrying their camp on their back.

01:01:19.000 But if they do, if they know they have to go in deep and they have to live off their back, like they have a bivvy tent and they do the whole thing off their back, most guys will try to drop it in the 40s. 0.99

01:01:29.000 But you carry around 40 fucking pounds, man. 0.89

01:01:32.000 There's a company called Outdoorsman's in Phoenix, and they make a real high-end pack. 0.99

01:01:36.000 And one of the things that they've made that they actually just sent me, it's a pack frame that has an Olympic plate mount on it. 0.97

01:01:44.000 So you can put a 45-pound plate and another 45-pound plate, like a 90-pound plate, and you train with this fucking pack frame on. 0.78

01:01:53.000 So you put the pack frame on... 0.97

01:01:55.000 You mean literally like a weight?

01:01:56.000 Like a wimp, like lifting. 0.94

01:01:58.000 Like lifting plate.

01:01:59.000 And it slides onto your back the same way it would slide onto the end of a barbell. 0.99

01:02:03.000 And you use a clamp, like a barbell clamp, locks the plate in place, and then you go up hills with these fucking things on. 0.99

01:02:11.000 So these guys are just training. 0.99

01:02:13.000 Yeah, they're training to get ready for these backcountry hunts.

01:02:16.000 I had the same idea as you did.

01:02:18.000 I thought hunters were like, oh, the Duck Dynasty guys, they're all fat. 1.00

01:02:23.000 Rednecks, they're shooting at shit. 1.00

01:02:24.000 No, not Western hunting. 1.00

01:02:26.000 There's a big difference between...

01:02:28.000 Between the Southern hunter?

01:02:29.000 Yeah, well, there's a big difference between blind hunting, like people that sit in these blinds, and what a blind is, is like, for people listening, is like, it's basically like a little structure that's covered with, like, camo, and you're hiding.

01:02:43.000 You're hiding, waiting for the animal, and then you shoot him.

01:02:46.000 Or tree stand, same thing. 1.00

01:02:47.000 You're sitting in the tree stand, you're waiting, and then you shoot them.

01:02:50.000 There's a big difference between that and these western hunters, particularly like elk hunters, because they're going into the mountains where these animals live, or mule deer.

01:02:57.000 They're going to the high country, and you're climbing up.

01:03:00.000 You're going up thousands of feet of elevation every day, up and down, up and down, and you have to have massive endurance.

01:03:06.000 So a lot of these guys start trail running.

01:03:08.000 A lot of these guys start putting packs on their back with heavy weights in the pack and training, getting ready for these. 1.00

01:03:15.000 Otherwise, You're fucking miserable. 0.99

01:03:17.000 If you're not in, like, real shape, you're miserable. 1.00

01:03:20.000 Yeah, gotta get fit.

01:03:22.000 You gotta get real fit.

01:03:23.000 That's interesting.

01:03:24.000 Yeah, it's not what people think it is.

01:03:26.000 Well, my friend Cameron Haynes, he does a lot of ultra-marathons.

01:03:29.000 He just did the Bigfoot 200, which is 205 miles in Washington State.

01:03:34.000 How long does that take?

01:03:35.000 78 hours.

01:03:36.000 He ran for 78 hours.

01:03:38.000 Wow. 1.00

01:03:38.000 Fuck everything about that. 1.00

01:03:40.000 But that just shows you... 1.00

01:03:42.000 I mean, he's as extreme as it gets.

01:03:44.000 You know, he's like one of the top bow hunters in the world.

01:03:47.000 But the point is, these people are athletes.

01:03:50.000 The group of them...

01:03:54.000 The elite of the elite, there's so few.

01:03:56.000 It's a really, really small club of individuals that get to that point.

01:04:02.000 But the vast majority of them are in spectacular shape, where they're constantly running trails.

01:04:09.000 They're constantly working out.

01:04:11.000 They're constantly in shape.

01:04:11.000 And the reason being is if you're not, you're not going to be successful in the backcountry.

01:04:16.000 And one of the things that really haunts them is when they can't get to an animal because they're out of shape.

01:04:20.000 And I've been there before.

01:04:22.000 I've tried that. 0.98

01:04:23.000 Last year, I was hunting with Cam, and we were trying to get to this elk, and he ran up the hill like a fucking mountain goat, and I'm halfway behind him, like... 0.96

01:04:33.000 I thought I was in pretty good shape, and I am for the stuff I do, but I wasn't in good shape for running up hills. 0.90

01:04:40.000 You've got to do that.

01:04:42.000 To be in shape for running up hills, you've got to run up hills.

01:04:45.000 And a lot of these guys, they have these events, these train-to-hunt events that they do where they compete against each other.

01:04:53.000 And they put backpacks on, and they run, and they try to get from point A to point B faster, which a lot of people are criticizing.

01:04:59.000 They think it's kind of dangerous, and it's because it's not really...

01:05:02.000 Running with weapons?

01:05:03.000 What's dangerous about it?

01:05:05.000 Wait, wait.

01:05:05.000 You're talking still about the barbell?

01:05:07.000 Yeah.

01:05:08.000 The barbell thing is completely new and ventured by the outdoorsman.

01:05:11.000 It hasn't even come out yet.

01:05:13.000 But most people just pack heavy weights, like sandbags, and strap them down to their backpack.

01:05:19.000 But it's a different world as far as the perception of what these people are versus what they're actually doing.

01:05:27.000 And there's a real ignorance when people are talking about hunting.

01:05:30.000 They think of it as this really easy thing where you just go shoot this animal and they think hunters are cruel because that's the thing that killed Bambi.

01:05:40.000 You know what I mean?

01:05:41.000 There's these weird ideas that people have in their head about what hunting is.

01:05:44.000 And I think in general that was kind of my impression of the...

01:05:48.000 I don't know if easy is the right word, but yeah.

01:05:50.000 Not physical, certainly not physical.

01:05:52.000 No one would think from the outside without really examining it and looking in that you're talking about elite endurance athletes.

01:05:59.000 No.

01:06:00.000 But if you took the average person that thinks they're in shape, and I have friends that have done this before, taking people that think they're in shape and take them on these hunts, and these people break down.

01:06:09.000 Slug. 0.99

01:06:10.000 Yeah, they just can't make it.

01:06:11.000 They can't do it.

01:06:11.000 They're just not prepared for it.

01:06:13.000 And it's hard to prepare.

01:06:14.000 And they say there's very few things you can do other than put weight on your back and go up and down hills.

01:06:21.000 Other than just do it.

01:06:21.000 Yeah.

01:06:22.000 Some people say boxes, you know, steps.

01:06:26.000 You know those things like when people step up with one leg at a gym.

01:06:30.000 Yeah.

01:06:30.000 You know, and they do that over and over again.

01:06:33.000 Some people say that that's a good way to prepare for hiking as well.

01:06:36.000 Just box steps over and over again.

01:06:39.000 Like commit to...

01:06:41.000 Yeah, just get those quads. 0.57

01:06:44.000 Weirdly, in some ways, trail bikes are apparently very good.

01:06:48.000 Like doing dirt bikes, because you're constantly pumping one leg at a time, and apparently that is very good for mimicking the type of strength that you need to get up and down hills.

01:06:59.000 Hmm.

01:07:00.000 I guess it's back to what you said about just doing it, though.

01:07:02.000 I was like, just do it, you know? 0.98

01:07:04.000 It sucks, though, man. 0.64

01:07:06.000 I did it the other day. 0.96

01:07:07.000 I did a five-mile hike, or a four-mile hike, and one of the miles, I did it with my daughter, who's 50 pounds, and for a mile up the hill, I carried her on my back.

01:07:18.000 As you work out.

01:07:19.000 She got tired, and so I put her on my shoulders, and I carried her one mile straight uphill on my back, and oh my god, I was drenched.

01:07:29.000 I mean, my hoodie, I was wearing a hoodie, it was soaked to the bone.

01:07:34.000 Sweat was pouring down my head.

01:07:35.000 I was heaving as I was carrying her, you know?

01:07:38.000 It's really interesting how difficult it is, because just the hike is kind of difficult.

01:07:43.000 But I could do it because I'm in pretty good shape. 0.99

01:07:44.000 But the hike with a, you know, 50-pound kid on your shoulders, fucking a thousand times harder. 0.99

01:07:52.000 I bet. 0.99

01:07:53.000 Yeah, it's hard.

01:07:54.000 But I used it as a workout.

01:07:56.000 And she's like, if you're too tired, you can stop.

01:07:59.000 I'm like, no, no, no, it's a good workout.

01:08:00.000 It's good.

01:08:00.000 It's good for me.

01:08:01.000 You know, it probably freaked her out here.

01:08:03.000 I'm going to go... 0.98

01:08:06.000 Carrying her like thinking I'm gonna fall or something like that, but it wasn't wasn't dangerous like it wasn't like I was about my legs were failing But I was breathing fucking heavy. 0.97

01:08:14.000 That's for sure.

01:08:15.000 So you got to imagine these guys that are carrying 20 pounds more than that and They're carrying their their weight deep into the mountains, you know or their pack out That's the other thing when you kill an animal like you got a hundred pounds in your pack now and you got to slowly but surely make your way and a lot of guys get like seriously injured doing this and I was going to say,

01:08:36.000 what do you do, drag it?

01:08:37.000 No, you put it in your backpack.

01:08:39.000 A hundred pound animal?

01:08:40.000 Mm-hmm.

01:08:41.000 Yeah, well, no, much more than a hundred pound animal.

01:08:44.000 Usually, any deer you shoot is going to be more than a hundred pounds, and an elk is way more than a hundred pounds.

01:08:50.000 So what you're doing is you're making multiple trips with a hundred pounds on your back.

01:08:54.000 Because they hack it up?

01:08:55.000 Yeah, you have to chop it up.

01:08:58.000 Now, when it comes to backpacks and things along those lines, how do you choose what kind of backpack you need?

01:09:05.000 You must have a weight consideration as well.

01:09:08.000 As far as volume, how much stuff you need.

01:09:10.000 You said you carry one change of clothes, so you basically have one pair of socks, one pair of underwear, one pair of pants, other than the stuff you have on, right?

01:09:18.000 Do you bring a change of shoes?

01:09:21.000 Um, you typically break it up by activity.

01:09:23.000 So you have, um, hiking and sleeping.

01:09:26.000 So you have your hiking set of clothes and gear and you have your sleeping.

01:09:31.000 Um, so hiking clothes are usually like, uh, just like maybe like workout clothes, like a synthetic short sleeve top, uh, maybe even running shorts.

01:09:40.000 Um, and you know, a set of socks to hike in and then your trail runners to hike in.

01:09:46.000 Um, it's kind of like your hiking attire, you know, um, It's certainly not like the pant, hiking boot kind of image.

01:09:54.000 I think that's going away.

01:09:57.000 And then you have your sleeping set of clothes, your camp clothes, which is typically a very minimalist camp shoe.

01:10:06.000 It's all about weight, because that piece of footwear is on your back.

01:10:10.000 So you want to make sure that one's light.

01:10:11.000 A lot of people even use Crocs.

01:10:13.000 I know they use Crocs because it's super light, right?

01:10:15.000 It's just light and it's waterproof.

01:10:16.000 You can walk around camping them.

01:10:19.000 Some kind of wool.

01:10:20.000 Honestly, I love this.

01:10:23.000 Merino.

01:10:23.000 Merino wool.

01:10:24.000 Something warm to sleep in.

01:10:26.000 Something dry.

01:10:28.000 Get your hiking clothes wet, dirty all day long.

01:10:31.000 But when you come home or when you get to camp at night, make sure it's comfortable.

01:10:36.000 Make sure it's dry because that's your saving grace.

01:10:38.000 If you have to go to sleep in wet clothes in wintertime, that's no good.

01:10:42.000 Yeah.

01:10:43.000 Now why synthetic?

01:10:45.000 Why do you choose synthetic?

01:10:46.000 Because I know a lot of people choose merino for hiking as well because it regulates temperature well and when it's wet you can still stay warm.

01:10:54.000 I think you can have arguments on both sides.

01:10:57.000 I personally like synthetic just because I feel like it dries faster.

01:11:01.000 And it's a little more durable.

01:11:03.000 This would just tear.

01:11:06.000 I like getting down and dirty when I hike.

01:11:09.000 Like a synthetic shirt, even just from Walmart, nothing amazing.

01:11:12.000 Just a lightweight synthetic shirt.

01:11:15.000 I think it's just going to breathe and dry faster.

01:11:19.000 But I mean, Merino, yeah, I've hiked in Merino too.

01:11:21.000 And what kind of pack are you using?

01:11:24.000 Oh, man.

01:11:24.000 I could totally nerd out on packs.

01:11:26.000 I used an Osprey on the actual AT hike.

01:11:29.000 I don't want to talk bad about Osprey.

01:11:31.000 I like Osprey a lot, but I would not hike with them again.

01:11:34.000 How come?

01:11:35.000 I hate to be, you know, kind of from aesthetics, but I just don't like the way they look.

01:11:41.000 They've got this, like...

01:11:44.000 That seems like the last thing you consider when you're wearing Crocs.

01:11:47.000 That's true.

01:11:48.000 But they have this, they kind of pride themselves on a breathable back.

01:11:53.000 Do you know what I was afraid?

01:11:54.000 They have that concave back, and it just feels like a turtle shell.

01:11:59.000 I just can't stand it.

01:12:00.000 I feel like I'm falling back with it.

01:12:02.000 Oh, okay, so the weight's not tight to your back.

01:12:04.000 Yeah, I want something snug on my back.

01:12:06.000 I guess that's not, I mean, that's a little utility.

01:12:08.000 But that's a big issue for utility.

01:12:10.000 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

01:12:11.000 But you just think they look weird, too?

01:12:12.000 Well, exactly.

01:12:13.000 It's like, I don't like it.

01:12:15.000 It just looks bizarre.

01:12:16.000 What's the name of the pack so we can pull it up?

01:12:19.000 Osprey Exos 58. And so that's 5,800 liters?

01:12:24.000 Is that what it is?

01:12:25.000 It's 58 liters.

01:12:26.000 58 liters, rather.

01:12:27.000 58 liters, yeah.

01:12:28.000 But if I were to do it again, there are a handful of pretty badass ultralight pack companies.

01:12:34.000 You've got this bell curve of Osprey is the majority of backpackers, and you get into that niche ultralight, and then you've got a handful competing.

01:12:42.000 There it is right there.

01:12:44.000 Yeah, that's it.

01:12:46.000 So that just looks like a...

01:12:49.000 Yeah, you see that space in between the back?

01:12:51.000 Right.

01:12:51.000 I'm not into that.

01:12:52.000 So that's just for breathability? 0.98

01:12:54.000 Yeah, but it's like, man, you're a sweaty pig no matter how you look at it. 0.88

01:12:57.000 I just don't see the argument for breathability back there. 0.57

01:13:01.000 Do some people like it?

01:13:02.000 Definitely.

01:13:04.000 So it's just a personal preference.

01:13:07.000 So what's the elite of the elite?

01:13:12.000 I'd probably say like four.

01:13:14.000 There's Hyper Light Mountain Gear.

01:13:17.000 They make Cuban fiber.

01:13:20.000 Do you know Cuban fiber, the material?

01:13:21.000 Cuban?

01:13:22.000 Cuban fiber.

01:13:23.000 It's called Dyneema now.

01:13:24.000 Okay, I've heard of Dyneema.

01:13:26.000 They use that for bow strings.

01:13:29.000 Oh yeah?

01:13:30.000 Yeah.

01:13:31.000 But it's lightweight, it's strong, they're super expensive.

01:13:36.000 Hyperlite Mountain Gear makes, I like their packs.

01:13:39.000 Gossamer Gear, they make great packs, a little more affordable.

01:13:42.000 Super lightweight.

01:13:45.000 Granite Gear is another one.

01:13:47.000 And then ULA Equipment.

01:13:48.000 This would probably be the four pack companies I'd want to use for the next hike.

01:13:54.000 Is there a cost, not an option, best one?

01:13:59.000 Or is it just all four of them are really similar?

01:14:02.000 Even the Gossamer Gear Mariposa, that's a model, they're probably more affordable than some of the other options.

01:14:08.000 I'd probably like it the most.

01:14:11.000 So yeah, even if money wasn't an issue, they're still one of the more affordable packs and make the best.

01:14:16.000 What's interesting about packs is a lot of it is like where it centers the weight on you and you can make one pack with the same amount of weight would feel lighter than another pack.

01:14:28.000 Just by the way it's designed and the way the load lifters work and all that jazz.

01:14:32.000 And your torso length.

01:14:34.000 Like, you know, what might fit you might not fit me right.

01:14:36.000 Right.

01:14:37.000 Yeah.

01:14:37.000 It's like, yeah, I went backpacking with my girlfriend.

01:14:39.000 I gave her some of my packs and her torso was just so much shorter than mine.

01:14:42.000 Like, the hip belt wasn't working properly, so she couldn't rest the weight on her hips.

01:14:46.000 And then it's all on her shoulders. 0.98

01:14:47.000 And then she's like, God, this pack sucks. 0.99

01:14:49.000 And I'm like... 0.96

01:14:50.000 Man, that's one of the best packs out there.

01:14:52.000 So can you adjust it for her, or it just needs a different pack for her frame?

01:14:57.000 You need a different size.

01:14:59.000 That's interesting.

01:15:00.000 So how do you know what to choose?

01:15:03.000 You have to just try them out?

01:15:06.000 Yeah, I would have to try them out.

01:15:08.000 It's hard to do because your local REI, they don't carry those kind of niche ultralight packs that you can't go try them on.

01:15:19.000 They'll carry Osprey.

01:15:22.000 Yeah, go try them on.

01:15:23.000 Measure your torso length.

01:15:24.000 Some of those online retailers have ways to measure your torso length, make sure it fits right.

01:15:29.000 But still, at the end of the day, it's like a pair of shoes.

01:15:30.000 You've got to try them on, you know?

01:15:32.000 It's interesting because hunters in general do not use the same packs that backpackers use.

01:15:38.000 Yeah, but you probably have more holsters and all sorts of stuff you need.

01:15:41.000 Your needs are different, I'd imagine, right?

01:15:43.000 Yeah, for the most part.

01:15:45.000 But a lot of it is like certain things you strap to the pack.

01:15:50.000 Like you strap your bow to your pack.

01:15:52.000 And some of them have like rifle holsters or rifle scabbards.

01:15:57.000 You can kind of contain a rifle.

01:15:58.000 And like a lot of them have...

01:16:01.000 Little packets or areas where you could strap down a tripod or maybe the top compartment you would keep your binoculars or something along those lines.

01:16:10.000 But I would think that there would be like a lot of crossover and there's not.

01:16:13.000 There's like an exclusive sort of segment of the population or of the market rather.

01:16:18.000 Why is that?

01:16:19.000 Is it just marketing?

01:16:20.000 Is it just targeting a different audience?

01:16:21.000 I don't know because I wouldn't think that would be the case because it's not the case really with boots that much.

01:16:26.000 There's a lot of people use like Solomon's and really standard hiking boots.

01:16:30.000 There are hunting boots like Crispy and Kenetrek and there's a few of those that are like specifically designed Schnees.

01:16:38.000 Schnees, people use them for other things too, but they're really well known in the hunting world.

01:16:44.000 Maybe the markets will start blending.

01:16:46.000 I wonder.

01:16:47.000 But I'm just wondering, like, you would think you would go to those guys, the backpackers, the, you know, Appalachian Trail people.

01:16:54.000 Like, they would have already done the work.

01:16:56.000 I would think, like, that's the people to contact.

01:16:58.000 They know what's good. 0.98

01:16:59.000 Yeah, they're traveling for seven fucking months. 0.99

01:17:02.000 You know. 0.99

01:17:04.000 Do you take a Nalgene bottle or something like that with you?

01:17:07.000 Smart water bottles, man.

01:17:09.000 Smart water.

01:17:10.000 That's it?

01:17:10.000 Really?

01:17:11.000 Yeah.

01:17:12.000 I mean, these water bottles are fine.

01:17:15.000 I like smart water because you talk about that filter.

01:17:17.000 I saw your squeeze we were talking about.

01:17:19.000 It matches water bottle threads.

01:17:21.000 But the problem with this bottle specifically is it goes around two and a half, maybe one and a half times around.

01:17:29.000 Smart water bottles, this piece is about that long.

01:17:32.000 It's much, much better.

01:17:34.000 It's much more secure.

01:17:36.000 More threads.

01:17:37.000 More threads to secure itself so there's not going to be any leak or anything.

01:17:42.000 It's crazy to think that all you have to do is squeeze the water through it.

01:17:46.000 How long does it take to do a one liter thing of water?

01:17:50.000 That's the biggest con with that specific type of filter is the fact that you have to manually do it and it can take a while.

01:17:57.000 So if you had a group of, let's say you wanted to go with your kids backpacking, I don't know if I'd recommend that filter because you're going to have to squeeze all their water through that one little filter.

01:18:06.000 But if it's just you and you're trying to squeeze a half a liter, a liter at a time, it's fine.

01:18:09.000 It might take a minute.

01:18:10.000 I've seen those gravity filters, too.

01:18:12.000 Yeah.

01:18:13.000 If you're going with your family or something, and you have to do more volume of water, I'd probably go gravity filter.

01:18:17.000 So here it is right here.

01:18:19.000 Okay, Sawyer Squeeze Water Filtration System. 0.96

01:18:21.000 There's a video of it.

01:18:23.000 Oh, okay, and it squeezes into a bag.

01:18:25.000 So you fill the water bottle up, and then you squeeze it, and then it fills that bag.

01:18:30.000 So do you use one of those...

01:18:33.000 That's their manufacturer bag.

01:18:35.000 Oh, I see.

01:18:36.000 Do you use one of those tubes?

01:18:38.000 Oh, so what's going on right there?

01:18:40.000 That's the clean water coming out.

01:18:42.000 Oh, I see.

01:18:43.000 I see.

01:18:44.000 Oh, so that's it.

01:18:46.000 Huh.

01:18:46.000 So you fill the bag up, and you squeeze that thing, and then it comes out the end.

01:18:50.000 Wow.

01:18:52.000 It's pretty good stuff.

01:18:53.000 That's amazing that that's all you have to do. 0.63

01:18:56.000 I would think there's a bunch of bears shitting in that water.

01:18:59.000 What are the odds that you could just do that?

01:19:01.000 That seems crazy.

01:19:02.000 I think they're marketing more towards Africa and stuff now.

01:19:06.000 Oh, right.

01:19:07.000 If you have a water source that's polluted, you've got water for Village.

01:19:12.000 Just squeeze it through, and they have a warranty of some insane amount of water that can go through there.

01:19:20.000 And then what do you do?

01:19:21.000 You have to change the filter or throw it away?

01:19:23.000 Just throw it away and get another one.

01:19:24.000 They're like, I don't know, 40 bucks.

01:19:26.000 It's like, get another filter every 10 years, like God forbid.

01:19:30.000 Really?

01:19:30.000 That's it?

01:19:31.000 I think their warranty is like, I don't even want to throw out a number, but it's like a million gallons or just something ridiculous. 0.53

01:19:37.000 Whoa! 0.71

01:19:38.000 That little thing can go through a million gallons of water. 1.00

01:19:41.000 What does that filter smell like after the end?

01:19:43.000 You're supposed to back flush it, like my back flush when you back flush mine. 0.93

01:19:47.000 You got the one way, the dirty water goes through this way, and you're supposed to push through the crap out the other way. 0.78

01:19:53.000 And yeah, when you do that on mine, there's just black water coming out. 0.93

01:19:58.000 Wow.

01:19:58.000 It's interesting to think, like, all that black water is just filtered out of what looks like...

01:20:02.000 Clean water.

01:20:03.000 Clean water, you know?

01:20:03.000 Yeah.

01:20:04.000 Well, that is interesting.

01:20:05.000 Well, it's also like, you ever, like, especially in Los Angeles, this is a great example of this, have you ever gone to the hills and looked down on the basin of the L.A. area and you see the brown air...

01:20:17.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:20:18.000 It's fucking disgusting. 0.99

01:20:19.000 But when you're there... 1.00

01:20:20.000 You don't see it.

01:20:21.000 It looks normal.

01:20:22.000 If you're walking around Hollywood, you're like, oh, look, air.

01:20:24.000 I can see right through it.

01:20:25.000 Your lungs are doing the same thing that filter's doing.

01:20:27.000 I know.

01:20:27.000 It's just like...

01:20:29.000 Brake dust.

01:20:31.000 That's the other thing.

01:20:31.000 The brake dust, apparently, is a real issue with New York City and places where you have real congestion in tight areas.

01:20:38.000 You're breathing in a lot of dust from the brakes of the cars.

01:20:43.000 I had no idea.

01:20:44.000 Yeah, I didn't either.

01:20:46.000 Yeah, I saw some of that smog coming into L.A., and I connected it in Mexico City when I was coming here, and Mexico City was the same way.

01:20:54.000 Oh, the worst!

01:20:56.000 Mexico City is like L.A. is going to be in probably 20 or 30 years.

01:21:00.000 What's going on with the politics over here?

01:21:02.000 I figured it would be clean air and organic.

01:21:05.000 There's not much we could do.

01:21:06.000 I mean, when you get the volume of people that are here, the amount of humans in L.A. Apparently, though, the basin, especially like the valley, has always been like that.

01:21:15.000 It's always been kind of like a dust bowl just by the way it's shaped, even back before there were cars.

01:21:20.000 People always complained about the brown air, just literally from dust and dirt and wind and the dry air and the lack of moisture so the dirt kicks up easy with the wind.

01:21:31.000 But then you add that with pollution as well.

01:21:33.000 Gross.

01:21:34.000 We have 20 million plus people in this tiny little area.

01:21:38.000 Literally we have as many people as the entire country of Australia in the LA area.

01:21:46.000 That's crazy. 0.99

01:21:47.000 Fucking really crazy. 0.99

01:21:49.000 It's just too many. 0.99

01:21:50.000 And now Trump has lightened the EPA protection standards, and they're changing the standards of automobiles, what automobiles need to achieve, supposedly to help business, but fuck, man, at what cost? 0.97

01:22:06.000 Yeah, I think that seems like a short-term solution to a long-term problem. 0.98

01:22:09.000 It's a terrible idea.

01:22:10.000 It's a terrible idea.

01:22:11.000 I mean, there's a reason why people, why they've set those standards, and they're trying to achieve cleaner and cleaner standards.

01:22:18.000 Like, if you go back, apparently the 1970s in Los Angeles, the traffic was, it was, pollution was way worse.

01:22:24.000 Because when you're around those cars, you ever been around, like...

01:22:27.000 Old cars like, you know, a 1970 car.

01:22:31.000 Not particularly, no.

01:22:32.000 When you're around them, apparently just an old car like that just sitting around produces pollution. 0.99

01:22:39.000 Not even driving because the gas tank is not airtight and fucking fumes leak out into the environment. 1.00

01:22:46.000 The oil, those things are always leaking oil and shit. 1.00

01:22:50.000 When they drive, they're just traps. 1.00

01:22:52.000 They're just disgusting. 0.74

01:22:53.000 They're just... 1.00

01:22:54.000 Just fire.

01:22:55.000 I mean, they're basically just burning gasoline.

01:22:58.000 It's coming out the back.

01:22:59.000 So why are they different now?

01:23:00.000 Look at that.

01:23:01.000 Regulations?

01:23:01.000 That's Manhattan from 1966. That's crazy.

01:23:04.000 Yeah, well, that's those old cars, man. 0.98

01:23:07.000 Old cars were fucking terrible, and regulations fixed a lot of that stuff. 0.94

01:23:12.000 And, you know, that upper right-hand corner is Los Angeles. 0.99

01:23:16.000 Look at that. 0.99

01:23:18.000 Fucking smog in LA. And it's going to get worse now. 0.99

01:23:21.000 I mean, it was getting better, but it's going to get worse.

01:23:24.000 I mean, if he really does succeed in lowering the standards, the emission standards, look at China.

01:23:33.000 China's awful. 1.00

01:23:33.000 I was just about to say, Beijing, have you been to China? 1.00

01:23:36.000 No, I've not.

01:23:37.000 I've watched a documentary on it.

01:23:39.000 I literally, like when I was in, this is years ago, but when I was in China, I was just like sick, literally sick.

01:23:44.000 Like I was talking with a gravel voice.

01:23:45.000 It was just like, people live there, you know, like every day.

01:23:50.000 Yeah.

01:23:50.000 No thanks.

01:23:51.000 Well, that has got to be one thing that's positive about doing the Appalachian Trail is that you're constantly in nature and you're constantly around all those trees and walking through the mountains and the clean air.

01:24:02.000 Healthy stuff.

01:24:03.000 Yeah.

01:24:03.000 You're drinking like, well, I'm not going to say that all stream water is clean, but I mean, yeah, you're drinking river water, you're surrounded by trees all the time, you're not near city lights, like air pollution, it's pretty, and you're exercising every day, all day, you know, it's a pretty healthy way of life.

01:24:19.000 In a way.

01:24:20.000 Yeah, unless you start talking about stress fractures, right?

01:24:23.000 Well, so when you quit your job, you didn't just do the Appalachian Trail.

01:24:28.000 You kind of became a world traveler, right?

01:24:31.000 Yeah, and I still kind of am, honestly.

01:24:35.000 Yeah, I'm in Guatemala right now.

01:24:38.000 What are you doing in Guatemala?

01:24:39.000 Yeah.

01:24:42.000 Working online.

01:24:43.000 You know, I do a lot of Green Belly online.

01:24:45.000 So you live in Guatemala?

01:24:47.000 Kind of?

01:24:48.000 A loose term, you know, living...

01:24:50.000 Have you heard the term digital nomad?

01:24:52.000 Is that what you are?

01:24:53.000 I don't know if I identify myself as that, but that kind of movement of...

01:24:57.000 Of working online and working remotely.

01:24:59.000 So I can truly operate most of the business online.

01:25:04.000 So from that point of view, it's like nowhere's off limits, you know, as long as there's decent internet connection.

01:25:11.000 So I mean, my girlfriend and I are in Guatemala for three months right now.

01:25:14.000 And then we'll be in Europe and then, you know, Asia.

01:25:17.000 So do you keep an apartment anywhere or anything?

01:25:20.000 Airbnb.

01:25:21.000 Wow.

01:25:22.000 No possessions, truly.

01:25:23.000 Wow, you're a renegade. 1.00

01:25:25.000 You're out there fucking thumbing your nose at society. 1.00

01:25:30.000 It's a growing movement, man. 0.99

01:25:33.000 There are a lot of people.

01:25:34.000 You'll go to these cities.

01:25:35.000 Chiang Mai, Thailand was where I was pretty much all of last year.

01:25:40.000 There are thousands of young international people running businesses off their laptop.

01:25:47.000 There are hubs all over the world, like Chiang Mai, where they'll have these co-working cafes.

01:25:55.000 It's booming right now.

01:25:57.000 People are all over the world, 20s, 30-year-olds just starting off a business that just makes $1,000 a month income, and then they'll slowly grow it into $2,000 a month.

01:26:08.000 The next thing you know is they're replacing their old salary at their old gig.

01:26:12.000 Yeah.

01:26:13.000 I know people have done that in Hawaii.

01:26:15.000 I've heard of people doing that in Hawaii, where they move to Hawaii and try to operate out of there.

01:26:20.000 And, you know, you're essentially still in the United States, but you're...

01:26:23.000 Living a beach life.

01:26:24.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:26:25.000 I mean, look, if you can do it...

01:26:28.000 It's probably better than being trapped somewhere.

01:26:32.000 Yeah, no doubt.

01:26:33.000 Yeah, and it's like, no car, like, no car payments, no mortgage.

01:26:37.000 Like, I don't know.

01:26:39.000 I mean, I like it.

01:26:41.000 I do.

01:26:41.000 You know, I don't know about in a few years about having kids if that's the way to go.

01:26:45.000 Yeah.

01:26:45.000 Because I think, like, some sense of stability in an environment would be good, but for now, it's fantastic.

01:26:51.000 It's definitely good for the kids.

01:26:53.000 Whether it's...

01:26:53.000 Yeah, I mean, you're an adult.

01:26:55.000 You know, it's a different animal, you know?

01:26:57.000 I mean, I think...

01:26:58.000 Also, a lot of the people that do that kind of stuff, you get really attached to this idea of being free. 0.99

01:27:05.000 You can just pull up stakes, throw your shit in a backpack, and you're gone. 0.89

01:27:09.000 How many bags do you have? 1.00

01:27:11.000 One.

01:27:12.000 I literally fit everything into one bag.

01:27:14.000 I have two pairs of shoes.

01:27:18.000 Wow.

01:27:19.000 It's like this extreme minimalist living, you know?

01:27:24.000 Wow.

01:27:25.000 I know a guy who does that.

01:27:25.000 He's in his 60s.

01:27:26.000 My friend Steve Maxwell.

01:27:28.000 Yeah?

01:27:28.000 He's a personal trainer.

01:27:29.000 He's a famous trainer.

01:27:30.000 Does he live in California?

01:27:31.000 Lives everywhere.

01:27:32.000 He doesn't have a place.

01:27:34.000 He lives in hotels.

01:27:35.000 Yeah.

01:27:36.000 He hasn't had a place since I met him. 0.98

01:27:37.000 When I met him, he had a van that he lived out of, like a big camper van, and he slept in that thing and he sold that fucking thing. 0.97

01:27:44.000 He's like, I don't care. 0.99

01:27:45.000 I don't need this.

01:27:46.000 And he just has a bag.

01:27:47.000 He has a bag that's about that big and he gets everything down to that bag.

01:27:52.000 He travels all over the world.

01:27:53.000 Less is more.

01:27:55.000 Yeah, and he's a guy that's done the opposite.

01:27:57.000 He had a gym, and he had a house, and he had a family, and the whole deal. 0.99

01:28:02.000 His kids grew up, he got divorced, he's like, fuck this life. 0.99

01:28:05.000 And just became that kind of nomad type person. 0.98

01:28:09.000 It's a fascinating idea that I mean, people are so attached to the idea of permanence when it's not real.

01:28:16.000 I mean, no matter what happens, you will die, and all this stuff that you've nestled, you know...

01:28:23.000 Acquired.

01:28:24.000 Yeah, feathered your nest with.

01:28:26.000 It's not real.

01:28:27.000 It's like, you're not gonna keep it.

01:28:30.000 Guatemala, huh?

01:28:31.000 Come on down, man.

01:28:32.000 How'd you choose that?

01:28:34.000 Costs like five bucks a year.

01:28:36.000 Yeah, that's a plus.

01:28:38.000 Yeah, it's close to home.

01:28:40.000 My dad's not in the best of health right now, so I do like the idea of being somewhat close to Georgia.

01:28:45.000 So if I need to come home, you know...

01:28:47.000 How far is the flight from Guatemala to Georgia?

01:28:50.000 Four and a half hours?

01:28:52.000 Oh, so you can get there almost the same as living on the East Coast and flying to the West Coast.

01:28:56.000 Yeah, and the same time zone.

01:28:58.000 It's cheap, and it's like all these volcanoes around.

01:29:00.000 You can hike all day long.

01:29:03.000 And it's like the coolest thing about...

01:29:05.000 I'm in Antigua right now.

01:29:06.000 Antigua is like... 0.63

01:29:09.000 There are several South American cities like this, or Central American cities, and they're close to the equator, so you have hot temperature all year long, kind of like, I mean, I guess California, you're spoiled with it, right?

01:29:21.000 But Antigua specifically is at several thousand feet of elevation, so you have that consistent weather year long.

01:29:29.000 However, it's not 100 degrees every day.

01:29:31.000 So it's very similar to here.

01:29:34.000 It's like 75 degrees every day.

01:29:35.000 It's like 60 at night.

01:29:37.000 Do you speak Spanish?

01:29:39.000 Un poquito.

01:29:41.000 Really?

01:29:41.000 I would think you would learn.

01:29:42.000 Do you speak Spanish?

01:29:43.000 No, but I live in California.

01:29:45.000 Yeah, my Spanish is horrible.

01:29:49.000 I've only been down for like two months, you know, like I'm not, I haven't, I haven't picked it up.

01:29:54.000 I just got back from Cabo and I felt bad that I didn't speak Spanish while I was down there.

01:29:58.000 I tried, you know, I did the, you know, whole gracias.

01:30:00.000 How long were you down there?

01:30:01.000 Just a week.

01:30:02.000 A week, man.

01:30:04.000 Yeah, but I would think if you stay there for any length of time...

01:30:08.000 I have a friend who has a house there.

01:30:10.000 He keeps a house there.

01:30:11.000 And they go there every month. 1.00

01:30:12.000 This motherfucker can't speak a word of Spanish. 1.00

01:30:15.000 That's crazy. 1.00

01:30:16.000 You should learn.

01:30:17.000 It's their language, man.

01:30:18.000 I know.

01:30:18.000 It's kind of like a guilty American privilege.

01:30:20.000 I was in Thailand for a year last year.

01:30:23.000 I don't know ten words in Thai.

01:30:25.000 Wow.

01:30:25.000 That's a shame on me, but it's a commitment to learn something that fundamentally different.

01:30:30.000 Oh, yeah.

01:30:30.000 Yeah, Thai especially.

01:30:32.000 You have to learn a whole new alphabet.

01:30:35.000 Totally.

01:30:36.000 You can't even read it, right?

01:30:37.000 You've got to start way back into kindergarten in Thai, you know?

01:30:41.000 At least Spanish, they use the same letters.

01:30:44.000 Yeah, Thai is like that crazy language. 1.00

01:30:47.000 You look at it, it's almost like music.

01:30:50.000 You're looking at musical notes or something.

01:30:53.000 Yeah, and it's like, other than being in Thailand, there's no advantage of knowing Thai, you know?

01:30:59.000 Right.

01:31:00.000 I don't mean to bash on Thailand, but it's like, Spanish is much more of an incentive. 1.00

01:31:03.000 It's like, okay, a lot of people speak Spanish.

01:31:05.000 Yeah.

01:31:05.000 That would be a great thing to know.

01:31:07.000 Yeah, that makes sense.

01:31:08.000 Spanish is probably, next to English, maybe the most popular.

01:31:11.000 What is the most popular language?

01:31:13.000 I'd say Mandarin, maybe.

01:31:14.000 Oh, that's right.

01:31:15.000 That's like a billion people.

01:31:16.000 I don't know the numbers.

01:31:18.000 Spanish is huge.

01:31:19.000 That seems like a grind.

01:31:20.000 Learning Mandarin?

01:31:21.000 Oh, Jesus Christ.

01:31:22.000 Then you have to learn symbols?

01:31:24.000 It's not even letters?

01:31:25.000 Yeah, right. 0.99

01:31:26.000 What the fuck? 1.00

01:31:27.000 Right. 0.99

01:31:28.000 Their grammar structure, everything.

01:31:30.000 Yeah, how do they text?

01:31:32.000 How do Chinese people text?

01:31:33.000 Oh my god, how do they text?

01:31:36.000 How is it possible?

01:31:39.000 That's a really good point.

01:31:41.000 I should know this.

01:31:42.000 I should have already asked this question.

01:31:44.000 How do they text?

01:31:45.000 Have I asked this question?

01:31:46.000 Well, I know in Thai you can switch your keyboard.

01:31:48.000 In Thailand they switch their keyboard to...

01:31:50.000 I don't know.

01:31:52.000 But they don't have the same numbers of keys, so I don't even... 0.93

01:31:56.000 Yeah, but with Chinese characters, how the fuck would you send a text? 0.80

01:32:02.000 You know? 0.95

01:32:03.000 Like if you send a late night booty call, is it just like emojis?

01:32:06.000 You know?

01:32:09.000 Smiley face here now. 1.00

01:32:10.000 Yeah, smiley face, hard dick, exclamation point, thumbs up. 0.99

01:32:18.000 What is this? 1.00

01:32:19.000 Oh my god, there they go.

01:32:20.000 They have a text.

01:32:23.000 Hmm.

01:32:24.000 But how many characters?

01:32:25.000 Do they just simplify?

01:32:28.000 Okay, what does a keyboard look like?

01:32:30.000 What does a Chinese character keyboard on a cell phone look like?

01:32:37.000 Hmm.

01:32:39.000 Yeah, but that's a keyboard on a laptop.

01:32:41.000 What about a cell phone?

01:32:43.000 Limited amount of keys.

01:32:44.000 How weird.

01:32:46.000 Oh, wow.

01:32:47.000 They have options.

01:32:48.000 It's Thai.

01:32:50.000 Oh, wow.

01:32:52.000 It's Korean.

01:32:54.000 Hmm.

01:32:55.000 So do they piece them together and make...

01:32:58.000 I'm asking way too many questions.

01:33:01.000 I think we're not going to get the answers to these either.

01:33:04.000 Out of all the places that you have visited, why did you choose Guatemala?

01:33:10.000 Close to the United States.

01:33:12.000 Hiking.

01:33:13.000 Oh.

01:33:14.000 It was in a place called Lake Atitlan, which is just, man...

01:33:19.000 Go to Lake Atitlan.

01:33:20.000 That place is gorgeous.

01:33:21.000 It's like this massive 1,000-foot deep lake surrounded by volcanoes, just like tiny little villages around there.

01:33:28.000 I think we just did a little bit of Googling, and it was kind of like, hey, you know, why not?

01:33:31.000 Let's go down to Guatemala.

01:33:32.000 So did you go as a visit and then decide to stay, or did you just go say, let's see if we can live here for a few months?

01:33:39.000 Yeah, pretty much.

01:33:40.000 I like the idea of like going three months at a time.

01:33:42.000 It's enough to kind of like find a gym, find your restaurants, settle into an apartment.

01:33:47.000 Like doing every few weeks is just way too many logistics, you know?

01:33:50.000 Right.

01:33:50.000 So I think, yeah, we committed.

01:33:52.000 It was like three months down there.

01:33:53.000 I think we're going to commit to Eastern Europe for three months and then, yeah, commit back to Asia for three months after that.

01:34:00.000 The whole expat lifestyle, it takes a very different kind of person, you know, to just say, let's try living in another country.

01:34:09.000 When you say you find a gym, what kind of gyms do they have in the little village in Guatemala?

01:34:14.000 A couple of coconuts attached to a stick?

01:34:16.000 Right.

01:34:17.000 They did literally mention that they had paint buckets with cement in them.

01:34:21.000 For real?

01:34:21.000 With PVCs.

01:34:23.000 I wasn't working out there.

01:34:24.000 That was Lake Atitlan, but Antigua's...

01:34:26.000 Wait, they really did?

01:34:28.000 It's like super ghetto stuff.

01:34:30.000 So they had paint buckets filled with cement that are attached to sticks?

01:34:33.000 Yeah, literally.

01:34:34.000 And that's how you worked out?

01:34:35.000 Yeah.

01:34:36.000 Whoa.

01:34:37.000 Yeah.

01:34:38.000 Wow.

01:34:39.000 But Antigua is different.

01:34:40.000 It's a bigger town city.

01:34:42.000 They have a proper gym we go to, yoga classes, the whole nine yards.

01:34:46.000 Oh, so it's almost like America.

01:34:47.000 Totally.

01:34:49.000 So when you're using these paint buckets with sticks...

01:34:52.000 I'm not using these.

01:34:52.000 You didn't use them?

01:34:53.000 That was only in Lake Atitlan.

01:34:55.000 So I'm in Antigua now.

01:34:56.000 Lake Atitlan, I was only there for a month.

01:34:58.000 And Lake Atitlan is like...

01:34:59.000 Maybe like seven small villages scattered around the lake.

01:35:03.000 And they're actually indigenous.

01:35:05.000 It's like they're directly Mayan. 0.91

01:35:07.000 Oh, wow.

01:35:08.000 So those people...

01:35:09.000 Guatemala, interesting, is...

01:35:11.000 Of all the South American and Central American countries, there's the highest percentage of indigenous people.

01:35:15.000 So it's like 30% indigenous.

01:35:17.000 So they don't even speak Spanish.

01:35:19.000 Whoa.

01:35:19.000 It's crazy.

01:35:20.000 And they like...

01:35:20.000 What do they speak?

01:35:22.000 It's Quechicales? 1.00

01:35:24.000 I don't know.

01:35:24.000 So is it a Mayan dialect?

01:35:26.000 I believe so.

01:35:27.000 So they're totally different people.

01:35:29.000 Wow.

01:35:29.000 Wow!

01:35:30.000 And they dress traditional everything.

01:35:33.000 That's intense!

01:35:34.000 Well they have a very strange, well at least Mayans did, they had a very strange language where you, it's like the letters or the images represent sounds.

01:35:47.000 And so the sounds, like you would have an eye.

01:35:52.000 This is how Terrence McKenna described it.

01:35:55.000 You'd have an eyeball, a saw, an ant, like a bug, and then a rose.

01:36:01.000 And that would be the way you say, I saw ant rose.

01:36:03.000 How do you know this?

01:36:05.000 It was just from Terrence McKenna, him talking about it.

01:36:07.000 Because he was a...

01:36:10.000 He was a crazy, psychedelic-adventured character.

01:36:13.000 Do you know who McKenna is?

01:36:14.000 Maybe I should.

01:36:15.000 Yeah, he's a fascinating speaker who was a psychedelic lecturer.

01:36:21.000 He was a botanist and just did way too many drugs.

01:36:25.000 Or the right amount, depending on who you ask.

01:36:27.000 And he got really deep into the Mayan culture, and he's one of those guys that was thinking that December 21st, 2012 was gonna be some crazy event.

01:36:36.000 Apocalypse.

01:36:36.000 Well, not necessarily, more of a shifting of consciousness, because it was the end of the long count of the Mayan calendar.

01:36:44.000 Yeah.

01:36:45.000 So, well, the Mayan calendar is a really tricky thing, man.

01:36:48.000 Like, the sort of various different Decipherings of it and the people that are Attached all these different meanings to it that don't necessarily jive with the original meanings It's very hard to tell what the Mayans meant because they're not around anymore You know,

01:37:05.000 so it's not like you're you're studying ancient Russia where people are Russian scholars and they can there's a direct lineage between them and the people now You know when you did culture.

01:37:15.000 Yeah, it's the the language is gone and hieroglyphics Yeah, there's some translations that took forever to figure out, and there's things that are similar in some ways to Rosetta Stone, where they're trying to match up what it used to be to what it is.

01:37:32.000 We try to...

01:37:34.000 Figure out how you would say these words in the context of the culture that existed 2,000 years ago as opposed to today.

01:37:43.000 Like, how would you even...

01:37:44.000 Oh, wow.

01:37:45.000 You're talking about the way they viewed things.

01:37:47.000 The way they communicated was incredibly different.

01:37:50.000 That's interesting.

01:37:51.000 Yeah, it's fascinating stuff.

01:37:53.000 There was a great documentary called Decoding the Maya that was, I think it was a Nat Geo.

01:37:58.000 I was supposed to say that sounds like Nat Geo.

01:37:59.000 I feel like I might have seen that.

01:38:00.000 Yeah, I think it was.

01:38:01.000 And it just detailed how difficult it was.

01:38:05.000 For these people to try to figure out...

01:38:07.000 See these symbols and say, alright, what do these mean? 0.98

01:38:09.000 Yeah, what the fuck do they mean? 0.67

01:38:10.000 And apparently there was a really recent breakthrough where they found a bunch of... 0.98

01:38:16.000 I don't think they call them hieroglyphs.

01:38:19.000 I don't know what they actually call them.

01:38:22.000 But they found a bunch of previously undiscovered Mayan language that sort of filled in some pieces that they hadn't filled in before. 0.97

01:38:33.000 Then you look at some of their amazing murals that look like a guy seated in a spaceship with a fire below his seat, and you try to figure out what the fuck this meant. 0.95

01:38:42.000 A lot of those ancient alien theorists. 0.89

01:38:45.000 I was just about to say, alien theorists, right?

01:38:46.000 Have you ever seen that one?

01:38:47.000 There's one that's really crazy.

01:38:49.000 It looks like a guy who's leaning back in like a spaceship.

01:38:54.000 It looks like he's leaning back in a cockpit chair, and he's looking through something that looks like a telescope, and he's moving some levers with his hands, and it looks like there's fire beneath him.

01:39:07.000 Really bizarre, fascinating stuff.

01:39:10.000 It's like that was drawn a long time ago.

01:39:12.000 Oh yeah, there it is right there.

01:39:14.000 That's the...

01:39:17.000 That's the...

01:39:18.000 I guess...

01:39:20.000 Yeah, there's a...

01:39:20.000 Go full screen with that one right there that you got right there.

01:39:23.000 Yeah, see?

01:39:24.000 So, below him is fire.

01:39:27.000 He's moving some stuff with his feet, he's moving some levers, and you see how he's looking through that thing?

01:39:33.000 It looks like he's got a gas mask on, like an oxygen mask.

01:39:37.000 And all those people that, like the Von Daniken guys, they believed that what this showed was a man sitting in a cockpit Using the the levers and machines to operate some sort of a spaceship.

01:39:54.000 So where was that spaceship from?

01:39:56.000 Most likely it didn't exist. 0.97

01:39:57.000 Most likely these guys were high as fuck on mushrooms and they were probably imagining the future. 0.96

01:40:02.000 I mean if I had a guess I would say that these Ideas were probably very psychedelically based, because they were really into psychedelic drugs. 0.99

01:40:12.000 They had found a lot of different drugs and a lot of different vines that contained lysergic acid.

01:40:17.000 I did a trip to Chichen Itza, which is really cool, a bunch of years back.

01:40:23.000 I had a professor that was a guide.

01:40:26.000 It was really cool because you could hire people for a guide.

01:40:29.000 And we got this guy who was a professor in Mayan history.

01:40:34.000 And when he knew that I was really into it and I asked all these questions, he was super psyched.

01:40:39.000 So he went way deep into it.

01:40:41.000 And we had him for like six hours.

01:40:42.000 He took us on this grand tour.

01:40:44.000 But one of the things he showed us is this area Of one of the pyramids where they used to do these psychedelic rituals.

01:40:51.000 And he was talking about these vines that they used to take, these vines that had some sort of lysergic acid in it.

01:40:58.000 And they would have these psychedelic rituals.

01:41:01.000 And that's one of the things that they used to do when they were studying the stars and, you know, looking at it.

01:41:07.000 Obviously, no light pollution back then.

01:41:09.000 Right.

01:41:09.000 So these guys are tripping their balls out on acid, staring at this beautiful starscape.

01:41:16.000 Are the vines still around?

01:41:18.000 I don't remember.

01:41:19.000 It was so long ago that I went.

01:41:21.000 I went in like early 2000s, like 2002 or something like that I think we went.

01:41:28.000 But it was amazing.

01:41:29.000 To think that you're standing on the ground where these people existed and they had this bizarre culture that we don't understand that was aligned to the cosmos.

01:41:40.000 All their structures were based on constellations.

01:41:44.000 The maps of these structures mirrored constellations.

01:41:47.000 They were really into astronomy in some sort of a weird way.

01:41:54.000 Yeah, oh yeah, right over your head. 0.99

01:41:56.000 Like, how the fuck did they? 0.98

01:41:57.000 Apparently there's evidence that they knew about the procession of the equinoxes, which is a 20-something thousand year cycle of wobble of the Earth. 0.98

01:42:08.000 Yeah, because the Earth doesn't just spin, you know, it doesn't just spin perfectly.

01:42:13.000 It spins with like a little bit of a wobble.

01:42:15.000 So the night sky changes and goes into this 26,000 year cycle.

01:42:22.000 And they apparently knew about that.

01:42:24.000 What?

01:42:25.000 How?

01:42:26.000 No idea.

01:42:28.000 Yeah, I guess if you have a lot of time back then and there's no iPhone to constantly distract you with checking your Twitter, oh, look at this picture on Instagram.

01:42:37.000 Instead, you're just looking at constellations.

01:42:40.000 I just don't know how they would...

01:42:41.000 How they would mark it.

01:42:44.000 I mean I guess that they would see that there's some sort of subtle changing of the night sky in terms of like how it would move a little bit all the time.

01:42:55.000 Not just move.

01:42:56.000 Obviously the night sky moves with the seasons.

01:43:00.000 You're looking at a different image as the sun moves and the planet spins.

01:43:06.000 But it's just the idea that these people had figured out all these different things in terms of mapping constellations so long ago.

01:43:14.000 Wild.

01:43:16.000 Yeah, amazing.

01:43:17.000 I just... 0.94

01:43:18.000 It's fucked up that we don't know what they were saying, you know? 0.97

01:43:23.000 Like, we've never heard their language. 0.97

01:43:25.000 Like, it's one of the things about one of these other documentaries that I watched was that they were trying to mimic what the sound of these Mayan languages could have been like, and they really...

01:43:37.000 It was kind of guesswork, but they didn't know.

01:43:41.000 See if there's something that you find.

01:43:43.000 There's something where they...

01:43:45.000 Hear what the Mayan language could have sounded like, you know, and there was some sort of a- Like really bizarre like clicks or something?

01:43:53.000 Well, it was just a weird language, but they don't even know if that's right because there's no one around.

01:43:58.000 Total guess.

01:44:00.000 They just died.

01:44:02.000 They just went away.

01:44:04.000 You know, it's weird and then their language got absorbed and obviously these people that you were talking about probably have some sort of a dialect and- Yeah, and I have no idea what the correlation is between the current descendants and what you're talking about.

01:44:16.000 Yeah.

01:44:17.000 I don't know.

01:44:18.000 I mean, what's really bizarre is that it's not that long ago in terms of human history.

01:44:22.000 Because if you look back on, like, human history in Europe, like, there's places in Europe you can visit that are 2,000 years old.

01:44:30.000 Right. 0.91

01:44:30.000 You know, I mean, isn't there a fucking bar somewhere in Europe that's, like, almost 900 years old or something crazy like that? 0.91

01:44:38.000 So these... 0.96

01:44:39.000 I believe the Mayan civilization, they think, was not...

01:44:43.000 Not more than 2,000 years ago.

01:44:46.000 Here it is.

01:44:48.000 Sean's Bar is a pub in Athlone, Ireland.

01:44:51.000 It claims to be the oldest pub in Ireland.

01:44:52.000 Goes back to 900 A.D. Older than 900 years old.

01:44:56.000 Jesus Christ!

01:44:58.000 2,900 years old, essentially.

01:45:02.000 Oh, 900 A.D. Oh, okay.

01:45:05.000 Durr.

01:45:06.000 But think about that.

01:45:07.000 That's 1,000...

01:45:10.000 Well, it says oldest pub in Europe, so what's the oldest pub in the world?

01:45:14.000 That's a good question.

01:45:16.000 But just think of that, 900 A.D. So that's three or four hundred years before Genghis Khan.

01:45:24.000 The old trip to Jerusalem, 1189 A.D., 900 A.D. So that seems like the oldest.

01:45:31.000 Yeah, it does, doesn't it?

01:45:32.000 900 A.D., wow.

01:45:35.000 More than 1100 years ago. 0.99

01:45:37.000 Fucking A, man. 0.99

01:45:39.000 Just crazy that... 1.00

01:45:40.000 Much older than America, right? 0.53

01:45:42.000 Yeah.

01:45:42.000 So when was the Mayan civilization?

01:45:45.000 When was the decline of the Mayan civilization?

01:45:49.000 See if you can find that.

01:45:52.000 It is pretty amazing when you stop and think about it.

01:45:54.000 Think about the bizarre history of the human race.

01:45:59.000 And that there are these civilizations that had these...

01:46:02.000 They lived in these sort of isolated environments.

01:46:06.000 Where they developed, in many ways, parallel sort of building techniques, but different than other parts of the world that were also based on constellations, like very similar to a lot of the hypothesis about Egyptian cultures that they had done that.

01:46:22.000 Collapse.

01:46:22.000 There it goes.

01:46:24.000 Wow, 900 AD. That's insane!

01:46:27.000 Right around the bar time.

01:46:29.000 Right when that bar was built. 0.99

01:46:30.000 Maybe that bar fucking caused it. 0.99

01:46:32.000 They all went to Ireland, got hammered. 1.00

01:46:35.000 Wow, that's amazing.

01:46:36.000 What a coincidence.

01:46:36.000 900 AD right there.

01:46:38.000 900 AD up and down.

01:46:39.000 But what a bizarre and complex civilization the Mayans were. 0.99

01:46:43.000 See if you can find out this is what the Mayan language sounded like.

01:46:48.000 I found a video, but it's like a woman living currently. 0.91

01:46:51.000 It's like, this is what it could have sounded like.

01:46:52.000 I don't know if that's the best.

01:46:54.000 Oh.

01:46:55.000 Let's hear what she says.

01:46:57.000 Maybe.

01:46:58.000 I mean, maybe there's some of it left, you know?

01:47:00.000 This is Yucatec.

01:47:01.000 I don't know if that's the same.

01:47:02.000 Oh, Yucatan.

01:47:03.000 Yeah, that's the Yucatan.

01:47:05.000 That's where the...

01:47:05.000 It's near Guatemala.

01:47:07.000 Whoa.

01:47:08.000 Whoa.

01:47:19.000 We're good.

01:47:20.000 We're good.

01:47:21.000 We're good.

01:47:22.000 We're good.

01:47:23.000 We're good.

01:47:24.000 We're good.

01:47:25.000 We're good.

01:47:27.000 We're good.

01:47:28.000 We're good.

01:47:29.000 We're good.

01:47:32.000 We're good.

01:47:33.000 We're good.

01:47:45.000 That doesn't sound like anything that I've ever heard before.

01:47:48.000 I feel like I heard a few Spanish words dropped.

01:47:51.000 It says, what Yucatec Maya really sounds like.

01:47:54.000 What does the description say?

01:47:56.000 This guy had his housekeeper describe what this older woman was saying. 0.99

01:48:00.000 Go back there.

01:48:01.000 It says, attention Mel Gibson.

01:48:05.000 Yeah, she saw that movie Apocalypto and had a hard time understanding the Mayan that they were speaking in that movie.

01:48:10.000 If you listen closely, you can hear a few Spanish words mixed in where there are no Mayan words.

01:48:16.000 Huh.

01:48:17.000 Wow.

01:48:18.000 Interesting.

01:48:20.000 Apocalypto.

01:48:20.000 That's really interesting, man.

01:48:21.000 Maybe he claimed that they were speaking it or something like that in that movie.

01:48:25.000 What could he have done in Apocalypto?

01:48:27.000 I mean, you're talking about a dead language.

01:48:29.000 He's going to guess, too.

01:48:31.000 What did he do with Apocalypto?

01:48:33.000 Did he use Spanish?

01:48:35.000 Did he mix it in with stuff?

01:48:37.000 I would imagine he would hire some sort of language experts.

01:48:41.000 But who knows? 0.97

01:48:42.000 He might have been busy getting drunk and yelling at Jews. 0.85

01:48:47.000 Cursing out his ex-wife.

01:48:50.000 This thing that I pulled up off of Mental Floss is that it's like 15 fun facts about the movie.

01:48:56.000 It says that he was a stickler for authentic language and all of the dialogue is Yucatec Maya language.

01:49:01.000 Oh, wow.

01:49:02.000 That's where the discrepancy is in that maybe he said he used it all and she's saying I speak it and I don't recognize much.

01:49:09.000 Well, she's not saying that she spoke it.

01:49:11.000 If you read what she said, she was saying that she had given this woman a massage, and the woman was speaking to her, and that she recognized a few words in Spanish, but she didn't...

01:49:20.000 I don't think there's a bridge between that language.

01:49:23.000 I don't think there's anybody who knows that language and also speaks English that can... 0.92

01:49:27.000 Crazy, man.

01:49:29.000 That whole part of the world.

01:49:30.000 And then you go back to, like, the Olmecs.

01:49:34.000 They don't even know who those people were.

01:49:36.000 Those strange, almost African-looking faces.

01:49:39.000 Those gigantic stone structures that they found that could be thousands of years old.

01:49:44.000 You're talking about off of the coast of, like, Ecuador?

01:49:47.000 Yeah, the Olmec. 0.99

01:49:49.000 They're almost like a hypothetical situation.

01:49:53.000 They don't...

01:49:55.000 They don't necessarily know where these people came from.

01:49:58.000 They don't know who they were.

01:49:59.000 And some people have said they look a lot like really strong featured South American folks.

01:50:06.000 And some people have actually compared the way the Olmecs were depicted in these statues and things that they look more like Africans.

01:50:15.000 There's been speculation that these are people that might have come from Africa on boats.

01:50:21.000 That's been widely criticized, too.

01:50:23.000 But the point is, they don't really know much about the Olmecs.

01:50:26.000 You ever seen images?

01:50:28.000 Pull up Olmec statues. 0.97

01:50:33.000 O-L-M-E-C, I believe is the way they spell it.

01:50:36.000 But again, that's just phonetic.

01:50:37.000 They don't even know what language these people spoke.

01:50:40.000 And these are some statues and things that they found in South America.

01:50:45.000 Look at these.

01:50:47.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:50:48.000 Have you seen that?

01:50:49.000 I remember that from Legends of the Hidden Temple.

01:50:50.000 Did you ever see that show?

01:50:51.000 I thought it was a joke.

01:50:53.000 When you said that, I thought I was going to pull up the Nickelodeon TV show.

01:50:56.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:50:57.000 That's what I'm thinking of.

01:50:58.000 No, the Olmecs. 0.99

01:50:59.000 Look at that one, the third one over from the top.

01:51:01.000 Look at that.

01:51:02.000 I mean, that looks very African, doesn't it? 0.98

01:51:06.000 Really thick lips, wide noses, large nostrils.

01:51:09.000 Really interesting.

01:51:11.000 I mean, these people, they don't exactly know what their culture was.

01:51:16.000 They don't exactly know who they were.

01:51:18.000 It's hard to carbon date as well because you're dealing with stone.

01:51:22.000 So until they find, you know, things that are around there that they can back date.

01:51:28.000 I think that the estimate is like 6,000 years.

01:51:33.000 I might have made that up though.

01:51:35.000 See if you could find out how long ago were the Olmecs.

01:51:41.000 You could see it back where you just were.

01:51:43.000 What does it say there?

01:51:43.000 900 BC! Jesus, everything is 900 BC! That was AD before.

01:51:48.000 Oh, BC. 900. Yeah, why am I screwing that up?

01:51:53.000 I'm in pain right now.

01:51:55.000 How's it doing? 1.00

01:51:56.000 It's better, but fuck, man. 1.00

01:51:58.000 I was in Mexico this week, and I got severely sunburnt on my back. 1.00

01:52:02.000 Put sunscreen everywhere.

01:52:04.000 But my back, I had young Jamie in a very non-gay way. 1.00

01:52:09.000 Lather on this aloe vera anti, but I'm very distracted.

01:52:14.000 It's just like, almost like I have a hundred bee stings all over my back.

01:52:20.000 No bueno.

01:52:21.000 So that's 900 BC they think the Olmecs lived?

01:52:24.000 What's that estimate based on?

01:52:26.000 Because I saw something that was like, it thought they were way older than that.

01:52:32.000 I wonder if they know.

01:52:33.000 It's because they date from at least before 900 BC. Yeah.

01:52:37.000 See, I think there's a conventional way of thinking, and then there's an alternative theory.

01:52:44.000 And the alternative theory was that they were way, way, way older than that.

01:52:47.000 But I don't think they know.

01:52:49.000 They don't know who the Olmecs were. 1.00

01:52:51.000 But cool shit. 1.00

01:52:52.000 They left behind these giant stone heads. 1.00

01:52:57.000 And like, alright, why'd you even do that?

01:53:00.000 No one knows.

01:53:01.000 Have you seen that thing?

01:53:02.000 I was watching this one documentary, or one television show, rather, on the Amazon.

01:53:09.000 And they've recently, because of satellite images...

01:53:13.000 Found a hidden city?

01:53:14.000 Well, they found what they think are...

01:53:17.000 The thing is evidence of hidden cities or evidence of ancient cultures.

01:53:21.000 No, in the Amazon.

01:53:23.000 And I think it was Brazil.

01:53:25.000 I don't think it was Honduras.

01:53:27.000 But they found what appears to be irrigation structures and things that are carved into the ground and things that look like grids where they might have had cities and streets.

01:53:39.000 That was the Lost City of Gold. 0.95

01:53:41.000 Remember there was a Lost City of...

01:53:43.000 El Dorado.

01:53:43.000 Yeah, yeah, that people were looking for and that one European explorer went looking for and wound up dying and they believe got eaten by cannibals.

01:53:53.000 They're making a movie about that, right?

01:53:55.000 We talked about this recently.

01:53:56.000 Some movie about the Lost City of Gold that's on its way.

01:54:01.000 I think it was Disney did one.

01:54:03.000 Did you?

01:54:04.000 Animation one like 20 years ago.

01:54:07.000 That was a while back.

01:54:08.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:54:08.000 Well, there have always been rumors that there was these lost cities in the Amazon, but now, thanks to satellite imagery, they're starting to see things they never saw before, and they're starting to find patterns and structures, and it's cool shit, man. 0.98

01:54:21.000 It's cool.

01:54:21.000 What's really crazy is, like, if we didn't have this stuff, Like, how long would it be before there was no evidence?

01:54:28.000 Would it be another thousand years?

01:54:30.000 So, like, if you go back to when were these structures?

01:54:34.000 Were they 2,000 years old?

01:54:35.000 Were they 1,000 years old?

01:54:36.000 So, if we think about it, like, who knows what was there in the Amazon?

01:54:42.000 Who knows what was there 5,000 years ago, 10,000 years ago?

01:54:45.000 I mean, it could have been completely lost civilizations that we just will never know.

01:54:51.000 We'll never have any awareness of.

01:54:55.000 You're freaking out, man.

01:54:56.000 Look at you.

01:54:56.000 I'm freaking out.

01:54:58.000 Never going to know.

01:55:00.000 Do you have any plans other than you said you were going to visit Eastern Europe?

01:55:03.000 You're living in Guatemala now.

01:55:05.000 You're going to live there for a while.

01:55:06.000 Do you have any other wild plans or places to go?

01:55:10.000 Talking about Thailand again at the end of the year.

01:55:14.000 Other than that, no.

01:55:15.000 That's about as far ahead as I've thought.

01:55:18.000 Honestly, my buddy was in Ojai.

01:55:21.000 I don't know if you know Ojai.

01:55:22.000 It's a tiny town.

01:55:23.000 Yeah.

01:55:23.000 And we went surfing yesterday up there.

01:55:27.000 And I was just like, I liked it.

01:55:30.000 We went surfing around lunchtime and then we went for a hike in the afternoon.

01:55:34.000 It's just gorgeous.

01:55:35.000 Yeah.

01:55:36.000 The fact that you can go surfing in the day and then for a gorgeous hike, it looked like these trails just snaked on forever.

01:55:42.000 I was like, California is like, okay, maybe California is on the radar.

01:55:47.000 California's pretty badass.

01:55:48.000 Yeah.

01:55:49.000 Northern California's really intense.

01:55:50.000 Like the rainforest area where the redwoods are, have you been up there?

01:55:53.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:55:54.000 Medicino and up there?

01:55:55.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:55:56.000 I've been up there.

01:55:56.000 Those big redwoods are gorgeous.

01:55:58.000 Pacific Northwest looks beautiful too.

01:56:00.000 I've never been up there.

01:56:02.000 Yeah, it is.

01:56:02.000 It's really interesting.

01:56:03.000 And it's super dense forest up there.

01:56:06.000 Like really dense because it's constantly raining.

01:56:08.000 And what's really interesting about the forest is there's so many pine trees and there's so many leaves fall that the forest floor is really soft.

01:56:16.000 Yeah.

01:56:17.000 It's almost mossy.

01:56:18.000 Yeah, like you're stepping on this cushion everywhere you walk.

01:56:22.000 It looks beautiful, though.

01:56:23.000 It is.

01:56:23.000 A lot of ferns.

01:56:25.000 Yeah, it's very alive.

01:56:27.000 What do you do up there?

01:56:28.000 It's very green.

01:56:29.000 Yeah, I've hunted up there before.

01:56:31.000 I also went up there looking for Bigfoot.

01:56:33.000 That TV show that I did.

01:56:35.000 You did?

01:56:35.000 Yeah.

01:56:36.000 We went Bigfoot hunting up there for a week.

01:56:38.000 Did you find them?

01:56:39.000 No.

01:56:40.000 We found a lot of white guys out camping looking for Bigfoot.

01:56:43.000 Really?

01:56:43.000 Yeah.

01:56:44.000 It was a joke that I said, here's what you don't find when you go looking for Bigfoot. 0.98

01:56:47.000 Black people. 0.96

01:56:48.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:56:48.000 You're more likely to find Bigfoot than you are black people looking for Bigfoot. 1.00

01:56:53.000 Just a bunch of white guys camping. 0.99

01:56:55.000 Exactly.

01:56:56.000 And it was interesting because one of the guys that we talked to was like, hey, look, even if we don't find anything, at least we're out here camping.

01:57:02.000 The worst case scenario is pretty good.

01:57:04.000 But there's a lot of people out there that claim they've seen things.

01:57:07.000 But I just think they're seeing bears.

01:57:09.000 Because there are bears up there.

01:57:10.000 There's a lot of black bears up there.

01:57:11.000 And you see them in the distance.

01:57:13.000 And bears do walk on two legs all the time.

01:57:16.000 And I think if you see one in the distance and you see that image and you convince yourself that that's a bear.

01:57:21.000 Or that's a Bigfoot rather.

01:57:23.000 Not a bear.

01:57:24.000 And after a while your memory starts to bleed.

01:57:26.000 Memories are so bad. 0.72

01:57:28.000 Like, the human memory is so inherently shitty.

01:57:31.000 I mean, a few people have, like, very clear, distinct memories from the past, but I think even those, you're sort of repeating them to yourself and ingraining them in your head.

01:57:39.000 Until you believe it.

01:57:40.000 Until you believe them.

01:57:41.000 But I think, like, what our memories are good for is, like, recent events.

01:57:45.000 Like, or things that are catastrophic, like, don't go near the snake, the snake will kill you.

01:57:49.000 You know, that spider's got venom. 1.00

01:57:51.000 Ah, I remember the spider.

01:57:52.000 But as far as seeing things and being around, especially unusual events that are very unique, like seeing a seven-foot-tall monkey in the woods or believing you saw that thing.

01:58:04.000 Yeah, no doubt.

01:58:05.000 I think you've seen those studies where they'll have a criminal break into a room and then they'll ask all the witnesses, how tall was he?

01:58:13.000 Was he black?

01:58:14.000 Was he white?

01:58:15.000 All these specific characteristics.

01:58:17.000 They're all over the place.

01:58:18.000 All over the place, yeah.

01:58:20.000 Yeah, human memory is unbelievably bad and we count on it so much and people are always like telling you stories about their childhood I remember when this happened and you like do you really how much do you really remember?

01:58:33.000 It's like you might really and how delusional are you?

01:58:36.000 That's the other part of the problem.

01:58:38.000 Like how much do you remember of things?

01:58:40.000 Like what is how much do you distort reality to fit within your narrative that you enjoy?

01:58:46.000 Make a good story, right?

01:58:47.000 Yes.

01:58:48.000 Enjoy.

01:58:48.000 Yeah.

01:58:49.000 You must run into a lot of those people when you're out there on the AT, as it were.

01:58:53.000 What is this?

01:58:54.000 Sasquatch chased deer onto highway.

01:58:56.000 Woman tells deputy. 1.00

01:58:57.000 Well, she sounds pretty fucking legit. 0.99

01:58:59.000 She's 50. 50-year-old tensed. 0.98

01:59:03.000 What is tensed?

01:59:04.000 Tensed?

01:59:05.000 It's a city, I guess.

01:59:06.000 Tensed woman. 1.00

01:59:08.000 50 years old.

01:59:09.000 She's probably on pills.

01:59:10.000 Whacked out of her mind.

01:59:11.000 Maybe drunk.

01:59:12.000 In Idaho.

01:59:13.000 So legit, dude.

01:59:15.000 But it's in Idaho.

01:59:16.000 Again, Idaho.

01:59:17.000 High bear population. 1.00

01:59:18.000 Idaho has fucking grizzly bears. 1.00

01:59:20.000 She's probably out there. 1.00

01:59:21.000 Whacked out on fucking pills. 1.00

01:59:23.000 She sees a bear. 1.00

01:59:24.000 She can't wait to call the police.

01:59:26.000 Finally, my life has meaning.

01:59:28.000 At 50 years old, I'm the first one in my town to see Bigfoot.

01:59:32.000 She goes and tells people.

01:59:34.000 Did you run into any wildlife that was weird when you were out there?

01:59:37.000 I don't know if bears are considered weird, but yeah.

01:59:39.000 A lot of bears?

01:59:40.000 There was...

01:59:41.000 It was 2013. They were like, you know, Congress seems to shut down about once every decade for, you know, budget disagreements.

01:59:50.000 Yeah.

01:59:50.000 And in 2013, they shut down and...

01:59:53.000 Yeah, so they shut down the whole national park system.

01:59:57.000 So you...

01:59:57.000 You know, the AT goes through a lot of national parks.

01:59:59.000 So when they shut down the national park system, nobody's allowed to go into the park.

02:00:03.000 Meaning, so it's like, what the hell are we supposed to do?

02:00:05.000 We've been hiking for four months, and now you're just going to say you can't go through these sections?

02:00:09.000 So it ended up everybody just kind of kept on hiking.

02:00:13.000 But the rangers would kick you out, so what you had to do is you would hike at night.

02:00:16.000 Oh, God.

02:00:18.000 So you're hiking at night, but the best thing about hiking at night is the wildlife.

02:00:23.000 Specifically Shenandoah National Park.

02:00:28.000 It gets a ton of visitors.

02:00:30.000 And so when they shut down the National Park, the only people in there were us.

02:00:33.000 It was like three hikers for this 100-mile section of park.

02:00:37.000 Whoa.

02:00:38.000 And the Shenandoah National Park, I believe, is one of the highest concentrated black bear populations in the country.

02:00:43.000 Oh, Jesus.

02:00:44.000 So you have no disturbance, and you have all these bears.

02:00:48.000 So we'd be hiking at night.

02:00:50.000 I was actually alone at this point.

02:00:51.000 But yeah, I was hiking through the night one night, and yeah, the sun was rising.

02:00:56.000 You know, like, bears will go up to sleep at night in the trees.

02:01:01.000 And when you pass by them, you tree a bear, and they'll come out of the tree, and they'll, you know, claw their way down the tree, you know, to slow their fall.

02:01:10.000 But it was like, I think I saw 15 bears that morning.

02:01:15.000 That was just cool, though.

02:01:16.000 That was just cool.

02:01:17.000 You know, it's just like...

02:01:18.000 Now, when you're hiking, are you using headlamps?

02:01:21.000 Are you just going by the moonlight?

02:01:23.000 Both.

02:01:23.000 I mean, yeah.

02:01:24.000 Moonlight if you can.

02:01:25.000 It's surprising.

02:01:26.000 Your eyes adjust in the night a lot of times.

02:01:29.000 But if you're under heavy trees, that's not going to work.

02:01:32.000 But yeah, headlamps, definitely.

02:01:33.000 And how long was Congress...

02:01:35.000 How long did they shut down the national parks?

02:01:37.000 I don't remember.

02:01:37.000 It wasn't too long.

02:01:38.000 It was a couple weeks.

02:01:39.000 I mean, some hikers we knew literally holed up in a hotel for a couple weeks until they settled it.

02:01:45.000 Committed.

02:01:46.000 It's just like...

02:01:47.000 Is a ranger really going to arrest you and throw you in jail for hiking, a thru-hiker, hiking through the park?

02:01:53.000 It's weird that they tell you you can't go anymore.

02:01:56.000 I mean, isn't this like public land?

02:01:58.000 I know.

02:01:59.000 I think we all kind of rolled our eyes, or most of us rolled our eyes at it, like, all right, dude, come on.

02:02:03.000 I'm just walking through here, you know?

02:02:05.000 So, this company that you have, Green Belly Meals, which I've enjoyed these things very much, you came up with this because you needed more nutrition while you were out there?

02:02:15.000 It's hard to find...

02:02:17.000 Good stuff to eat.

02:02:18.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:02:19.000 And prior to the AT, I was doing the term cycle touring.

02:02:24.000 It's backpacking on a bike.

02:02:26.000 You hop on a bicycle, and you cycle 50, 100 miles a day, and then you camp out at night.

02:02:32.000 So I did that in New Zealand for three or four months, and it was the same thing.

02:02:36.000 I was just burning a ton of calories, man.

02:02:39.000 And I needed everything to be light and ready to eat.

02:02:43.000 And then, yeah, I came over to the States and right after that trip to the Appalachian Trail.

02:02:47.000 And the backpacking food consisted of, you know, those dehydrated freeze-dried meals that you add hot water to.

02:02:54.000 Those things, like...

02:02:57.000 I don't like stopping and cooking at all.

02:03:00.000 If I can keep going, particularly at meals like lunch, just keep going.

02:03:04.000 The meal options were other bars.

02:03:08.000 Bars usually cap out at 200 calories, 250, even meal replacements.

02:03:12.000 The highest calorie meal replacement bar on the market was a 400 calorie, I believe MedRx, some of those workout high protein bars.

02:03:21.000 Not to mention they're heavily processed. 0.98

02:03:23.000 I just didn't want to put a bunch of that crap in me. 0.80

02:03:27.000 I mean, to add another thing was just balanced nutrition. 0.95

02:03:30.000 Some bars would have fiber, some wouldn't.

02:03:32.000 Some would have protein, some wouldn't.

02:03:33.000 Some would have carbs, some wouldn't.

02:03:34.000 And I was like, dude, I need nutrition.

02:03:36.000 Like, I'm really burning up to 5,000 to 6,000 calories a day, you know?

02:03:40.000 So that kind of idea of the need for a big nutrition, ready-to-eat, fast diet, You know, kind of eat and go kind of meal was something that had been forming in my mind as I hiked.

02:03:52.000 You know, a lot of times we were drinking olive oil practically and drinking honey and drinking peanut butter.

02:03:57.000 It's like anything you can get to load in the calories.

02:04:01.000 So, you know, I'm not a big dude.

02:04:03.000 So it's like I couldn't afford to lose that much weight and I was losing weight.

02:04:07.000 So Green Belly kind of came up with the idea when I was hiking like...

02:04:11.000 Let's make something that packs in some calories, you know?

02:04:13.000 And how did you do that, though?

02:04:15.000 How did you, like, these things are super dense. 0.94

02:04:17.000 Like, for people that are listening, I'm holding this bag, and it has two bars in it, and, uh, dude, I eat, I've eaten these before, I've eaten two bars, and I'm good for fucking a day. 0.86

02:04:30.000 I mean, it's just a normal day, like, not hiking or anything crazy, but it's really dense.

02:04:35.000 They're heavy.

02:04:36.000 Like, you hear that, folks?

02:04:38.000 Listen to that.

02:04:39.000 It's a brick of food.

02:04:40.000 It's a lot of food.

02:04:42.000 How did you figure out how to do that?

02:04:44.000 I knew nutritionally.

02:04:46.000 I had an idea of where I wanted it to be.

02:04:48.000 It was a concept for this ultimate backpacking meal.

02:04:52.000 And then I worked with a food scientist.

02:04:53.000 So I knew that I knew nothing about nutrition.

02:04:55.000 I just kind of knew...

02:04:57.000 I wanted to scratch my own itch.

02:04:59.000 I had an itch, and I wanted a better backpacking meal, so I knew conceptually what I wanted it to be.

02:05:06.000 And then after playing around my mom's kitchen trying to get something, I was like, this is way over my head.

02:05:12.000 Trying to get the nutritional profile where I want it to be, get it to taste good, get ingredients that don't react with each other and spoil, and then trying to get it To literally form together and not fall apart, you start having this really complicated stuff.

02:05:28.000 I tried to search around and see what kind of person could help me.

02:05:33.000 I was looking around nutritionists and chefs and all that kind of stuff and ended up coming with the term food scientist.

02:05:40.000 Food scientist helped me really formulate the meal.

02:05:43.000 Then it was just kind of a feedback game from what he could do. 0.93

02:05:48.000 From a nutritional point of view, from a shelf life and flavor profile, then it was just making sure the darn things tasted good, you know?

02:05:55.000 So I went to a hiking festival and handed out hundreds of samples, just got a bunch of feedback from hikers, and then, yeah, kind of ran with it.

02:06:05.000 And, yeah, it's been doing well.

02:06:07.000 Well, they're good, man.

02:06:08.000 And I eat them all the time, so I'm impressed.

02:06:14.000 I really am.

02:06:14.000 They're delicious.

02:06:15.000 You know, my favorite one is the chocolate one, though.

02:06:17.000 What is that?

02:06:18.000 Which one?

02:06:18.000 Dark chocolate.

02:06:19.000 Yeah, dark chocolate banana.

02:06:20.000 Yeah, we have banana chips in there. 1.00

02:06:21.000 Good shit, dude. 1.00

02:06:23.000 For real. 1.00

02:06:24.000 I'm trying to stay on a ketogenic diet.

02:06:26.000 That's what's so funny, Joe.

02:06:27.000 When you were talking, I was like, yeah, man, we got high carbs.

02:06:30.000 Yeah, that's not going to work.

02:06:31.000 But on a cheat meal, these are good.

02:06:33.000 Or if I'm desperado for food.

02:06:35.000 But also, see, you can... 0.67

02:06:37.000 The thing about ketogenic diets is you can every now and then fuck up as long as you're pretty consistent with a high-fat content diet.

02:06:47.000 And then what I'll do is I'll take an exogenous ketone.

02:06:50.000 I can take drinks that you mix up that put you in a ketogenic state.

02:06:55.000 You can drink a whole Coca-Cola and then drink one of these ketogenic drinks and it knocks you back in a state of ketosis.

02:07:01.000 Wow. 0.99

02:07:02.000 Yeah, it was pretty scientific shit. 0.99

02:07:03.000 This guy Dom D'Agostino invented it. 0.99

02:07:06.000 He's a scientist out of the University of Florida.

02:07:09.000 Interesting.

02:07:10.000 Yeah, there's ways you can manipulate your metabolism in that way where it specifically burns fat.

02:07:16.000 There's a lot of benefits.

02:07:17.000 One of the big benefits is your appetite.

02:07:20.000 Appetite suppressants are amazing because if I go on, and I do switch over, like if I cheat, like if I go on vacation or something like that, and I just start eating tacos or whatever, when your body goes into a carbohydrate-burning state, you get way hungrier.

02:07:36.000 Like, you burn through that carbohydrate pretty quickly, it's quick burning fuel, and then your body doesn't have the carbs anymore, so you go into this real hungry state.

02:07:44.000 Whereas if you're in a ketogenic state, your body's burning fat, you're eating fats, and then when there's no more food, your body starts burning its own fat.

02:07:52.000 And so you don't get that crazy hunger craving that you get when you're on a carb-based diet.

02:07:58.000 There's arguments for both sides, and I'm going to bring in some people that are anti-ketogenic diet as well, so get a balanced perspective on it.

02:08:07.000 I listened to, I don't remember his name, but it was a nutritionist.

02:08:11.000 He had written a book.

02:08:12.000 He was on your podcast a while ago.

02:08:14.000 Chris Kresher?

02:08:15.000 Maybe.

02:08:16.000 Gary Taubes, The Case Against Sugar, but he's not a nutritionist.

02:08:19.000 This was pretty recently.

02:08:21.000 Rob Wolfe?

02:08:23.000 Real recently.

02:08:23.000 I don't say it was real recent.

02:08:25.000 Wired to Eat?

02:08:25.000 Rob Wolf?

02:08:26.000 That sounds right.

02:08:26.000 Yeah, it must be Rob, yeah.

02:08:27.000 But the level of nutrition that that guy knew, I was fascinated.

02:08:32.000 That's Rob.

02:08:32.000 Yeah, that must be Rob Wolf.

02:08:33.000 Oh man, he was just, whoa.

02:08:36.000 That was impressive.

02:08:37.000 He's the actual guy that invented the concept of quote-unquote bulletproof coffee.

02:08:41.000 That guy kind of stole it.

02:08:42.000 Rob Wolf's concept came first, and he wrote about it in 2005, the idea of adding MCT oil and butter to coffee.

02:08:49.000 Butter, right. 0.95

02:08:50.000 To give healthy fats with coffee.

02:08:52.000 Yeah, Rob is a scientist, and he's, like, way ahead of the curve when it comes to nutrition.

02:08:56.000 Impressive, dude.

02:08:56.000 Impressive.

02:08:57.000 Like, those conversations were just interesting.

02:09:00.000 Yeah, there's a lot of those guys out there now.

02:09:01.000 It's really a fascinating time when it comes to nutrition, and also what's really good about him is he's constantly experimenting.

02:09:09.000 He's very honest and very open about his experiments, and he's also really adamant about the possibility, not the possibility, but the reality, rather, that People are very different. 0.99

02:09:19.000 And everyone's nutritional needs...

02:09:21.000 Variability, right?

02:09:22.000 Yeah, the variability is...

02:09:23.000 It's very wide.

02:09:24.000 So, like, what is healthy for you might not necessarily be healthy for me.

02:09:28.000 And what changes your blood sugar levels is not going to change mine.

02:09:33.000 It's very, very different.

02:09:34.000 And so...

02:09:34.000 It's interesting stuff.

02:09:35.000 So, it's like...

02:09:36.000 I remember when y'all's conversation, I was thinking, like, is there not something out there, just a simple...

02:09:41.000 A blood test or something where it's just like, what do I need?

02:09:44.000 What's good for me?

02:09:45.000 What's the simplest way to find out, is this good?

02:09:48.000 Is this bad?

02:09:49.000 What do I need?

02:09:50.000 You really just have to experiment.

02:09:51.000 And on top of that, there's a lot of other variables, like how much sleep are you getting?

02:09:55.000 What's your cortisol levels?

02:09:56.000 How much stress are you under?

02:09:57.000 And those factors also have to be taken into consideration when you formulate a diet, because it'll vary depending upon your stress levels.

02:10:05.000 Complicated stuff. 0.98

02:10:06.000 Very, very complicated, but these delicious shit, so I wish you well with this my friend. 0.99

02:10:12.000 Thanks man. 1.00

02:10:13.000 Yeah, really glad you- Go buy them you fucks. 1.00

02:10:16.000 And the book, How to Hike the Appalachian Trail. 0.99

02:10:20.000 This is available everywhere, right?

02:10:22.000 Yeah, that was just a fun side project.

02:10:24.000 Truly just wrote that in about a month.

02:10:27.000 Just kind of sat down and cranked out how to hike the AT. So it's gear talk.

02:10:33.000 A whole bunch of stuff, you know, a few trail tales in there.

02:10:35.000 Listen, I really enjoyed talking to you, man.

02:10:37.000 You've lived a fascinating life, and you continue to do so.

02:10:40.000 So good luck to you, and thanks again.

02:10:41.000 Thanks, Joe.

02:10:42.000 Good talk.

02:10:43.000 Christopher Cage, ladies and gentlemen.

02:10:45.000 No relationship to Nicholas.

02:10:47.000 See you soon, folks.

02:10:48.000 Bye.

The Joe Rogan Experience - April 03, 2017

Joe Rogan Experience #939 - Chris Cage

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