The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #989 - Dorian Yates

00:00:00.000 Push the sucker right up close. 1.00

00:00:03.000 3... 0.99

00:00:04.000 2...

00:00:05.000 1...

00:00:07.000 And we're live.

00:00:09.000 What's happening, man?

00:00:10.000 How are you?

00:00:10.000 I'm cool, man.

00:00:11.000 Up here in LA. It's nice to meet you in person.

00:00:14.000 I've seen you in magazines.

00:00:16.000 I've seen you since...

00:00:17.000 Man, when did you first burst onto the bodybuilding scene?

00:00:20.000 What year was that?

00:00:22.000 I was reminiscing today.

00:00:23.000 First time I came out here was 1990 to Gold's Gym.

00:00:27.000 So I came from UK to do my first professional bodybuilding contest.

00:00:31.000 It was called Night of Champions in New York.

00:00:34.000 And I got second place there and made a real big impact.

00:00:37.000 And the WIDA company that used to be based out here with the Flex magazine and Muscle and Fitness and all that stuff.

00:00:41.000 They're right down the street.

00:00:42.000 They used to be.

00:00:43.000 I don't think they are anymore.

00:00:43.000 No, it's all closed down.

00:00:45.000 There's a fence around it and everything.

00:00:46.000 But that's less than a mile away from here.

00:00:48.000 Yeah, the WIDA offices are out there and, you know...

00:00:51.000 Weed was a big name in bodybuilding, the magazines and everything, so they flew me out here, did my first photo shoot at Gold's Gym, 1990, so yeah, 27 years ago.

00:01:02.000 Man, I remember watching you in those magazines. 0.98

00:01:05.000 You were the first guy, well, you know what I'm the first guy, but you were one of the first guys that I ever saw in a magazine that I was like, gee, how the fuck is that a person? 0.99

00:01:14.000 You were so big, man! 0.99

00:01:16.000 Jesus Christ, you were big! 1.00

00:01:18.000 That's funny, because I look back at some of the pictures now of me, and I say, what the fuck? 0.99

00:01:24.000 You know? 0.99

00:01:25.000 Well, you were going for it.

00:01:26.000 It's extreme.

00:01:28.000 And I came into the sport and I wanted to see what I could do.

00:01:32.000 I wanted to, like, take it as far as I could take it, you know?

00:01:35.000 Well, you represented to me as an outsider looking in this insane determination.

00:01:40.000 I felt like all the best guys, whether it was Arnold or you or Lee Haney, all the top guys, they always represented not just the biggest and the most profoundly ridiculously muscular bodybuilders, but also this extreme dedication that was required to reach that level.

00:01:58.000 You've been around, man.

00:01:59.000 You're with martial arts and everything.

00:02:02.000 Any kind of sport is the same thing.

00:02:03.000 What separates the guy that's first from second from third or whatever?

00:02:08.000 You know, you all got certain physical characteristics that help you in your sport and so on.

00:02:14.000 So you're all gifted up there.

00:02:15.000 So what can separate the guy from first and second and third?

00:02:19.000 It's all up there.

00:02:20.000 That's the key.

00:02:21.000 How did you develop your mindset?

00:02:23.000 Was that something that you always had or was it something that you developed as you were training?

00:02:27.000 I think it's something I already had.

00:02:30.000 I kind of left home when I was 16, so I was out on my own on the street.

00:02:36.000 You're either going to get smart and look after yourself or you're going to fall down.

00:02:40.000 There's nobody there to catch me.

00:02:42.000 That was there from an early age, I think.

00:02:45.000 I was just very determined to do this thing that I felt I could be good at in order to change my life and change the projection of my life and the people around me.

00:02:56.000 I grew up on a housing estate in the UK. I had no education.

00:03:00.000 I was in a jail when I was 18. So I had all that.

00:03:04.000 The people around me, I didn't want part of that future.

00:03:07.000 I wanted to do something else and I got this thing that I was good at.

00:03:10.000 I'm going to take it and run with it, you know?

00:03:12.000 It's crazy how many people have similar stories like that, where they were in just a terrible environment and they realized that they had to toughen up, they had to smarten up, and they had to get out of there.

00:03:21.000 And if not for those terrible situations, who knows if they would have ever reached the levels of greatness that they did.

00:03:26.000 I can tell you from my point of view, I don't think I would have done.

00:03:30.000 Because I would be too comfortable.

00:03:32.000 If you're comfortable, you're not going to put yourself through that extreme kind of pressure and pain.

00:03:38.000 I wanted to improve my life.

00:03:40.000 I changed my life.

00:03:41.000 Through the sport, here I am, sitting, talking to you on this show.

00:03:45.000 People are listening to me.

00:03:46.000 I've been all around the world, thanks to my sport.

00:03:50.000 It's been great for me. 0.99

00:03:51.000 When you meet current bodybuilders, are they like, Hey man, what the fuck? 0.99

00:03:54.000 How could we not be a gigantic, huge Mr. Hulk anymore? 0.98

00:03:56.000 You're a regular-sized, athletic-looking dude.

00:03:59.000 Yeah.

00:04:00.000 Not really.

00:04:00.000 Maybe some of the younger guys that are coming into this now.

00:04:03.000 But, you know, people know me.

00:04:06.000 I was a professional bodybuilder.

00:04:08.000 That's what I did.

00:04:09.000 And I was the best at doing that.

00:04:11.000 But that kind of training and that kind of physique is not going to serve me now.

00:04:16.000 So I do training to be more functional.

00:04:19.000 My goals are more health-related now.

00:04:22.000 Whereas before, I was a young guy and I wanted to be the best at this thing I was doing.

00:04:25.000 I put everything into that.

00:04:28.000 But, you know, that kind of physique's not practical for everyday usage, you know?

00:04:33.000 I couldn't hardly tie my shoelaces when I was 300 pounds.

00:04:35.000 Oh, I'm sure, man.

00:04:36.000 And how tall are you, like a 5'10"?

00:04:38.000 5'11".

00:04:39.000 5'11".

00:04:39.000 So, like, when you were that big, you were just a ball of muscle, just a mass.

00:04:44.000 Yeah, and, you know...

00:04:46.000 300 pounds!

00:04:46.000 I was 300, 310 in the off-season.

00:04:48.000 Jesus Christ!

00:04:49.000 Competing 265, but, I mean, 265... 0.99

00:04:54.000 Lean as fuck, dehydrated, you know, shredded, so yeah. 0.99

00:04:58.000 God! 1.00

00:04:59.000 That's all I did.

00:05:01.000 That was all I did.

00:05:03.000 I trained, I eat, I sleep, I studied.

00:05:06.000 That's just all my mental focus was, like, lasered on that thing that was doing nothing else.

00:05:11.000 I wouldn't go to the movies, I wouldn't go to dinner if I got home after 11, because I've got to be in a bed at 11. Wow.

00:05:17.000 That was, you know, that was the regime that I lived for many years, and that's why I was able to beat other people that maybe...

00:05:24.000 It could be argued they were more gifted than me, but they weren't willing to do that.

00:05:29.000 So that's what it's all about.

00:05:30.000 Yeah, that's what I had always read about you.

00:05:32.000 Like I said, that was the impression that I always got.

00:05:35.000 What you represented is the pinnacle of extreme dedication.

00:05:40.000 Yeah, and study.

00:05:41.000 We had no internet then.

00:05:44.000 Everybody's got coaches now and nutritionists.

00:05:46.000 The thing that appealed to me is this was an individual thing.

00:05:50.000 I had to learn about the training.

00:05:51.000 I had to learn about the nutrition.

00:05:53.000 I had to learn all this stuff myself.

00:05:54.000 And that was, apart from the training, that was part of it as well.

00:05:58.000 You know, the learning part of it I enjoyed.

00:06:00.000 Was it hard to get good information?

00:06:01.000 Because I'm sure there's a bunch of gym experts. 0.87

00:06:04.000 There's always these bro science guys that are hanging around giving you shitty advice.

00:06:08.000 How hard was it to get the proper information when it came to training?

00:06:12.000 I kind of sifted through it and was very influenced by a guy called Arthur Jones.

00:06:17.000 I don't know if you've heard of him, but Arthur Jones invented the Nautilus machines.

00:06:23.000 This guy was like a billionaire, self-made billionaire.

00:06:26.000 He just was fascinated with the bodybuilding, but he had no business interest in it.

00:06:29.000 So he just wanted to, you know, he studied it and he was like, what is it that causes muscle growth?

00:06:33.000 What is it?

00:06:34.000 And he found it was the intensity of exercise.

00:06:38.000 And then there was another bodybuilder, Mike Mensah, who went to compete in the Mr. Olympia, won the Mr. Universe.

00:06:43.000 He took those principles and he used them.

00:06:46.000 So I read all this stuff and it was very logical.

00:06:49.000 You know, it made sense.

00:06:50.000 And then I tried it out in the gym.

00:06:53.000 And it worked in the gym. 0.77

00:06:54.000 And if I trained more often or if I did more in the gym, my progress would slow down or it would stop.

00:07:00.000 As soon as I cut back and I made the workout shorter and more intense, my progress went...

00:07:05.000 So for me, it was pretty early on I learned how to train properly.

00:07:08.000 And that's why I was competing.

00:07:10.000 I competed in a world championship after 18 months training, which is...

00:07:14.000 Pretty much unheard of.

00:07:15.000 That is pretty much unheard of.

00:07:17.000 Now, when you say shorter, more intense workouts, how did you regulate that?

00:07:21.000 That's a huge issue with martial artists, is overtraining.

00:07:24.000 They want to do more work than everybody else.

00:07:27.000 They want to work harder than everybody else.

00:07:28.000 And they wind up breaking their body down and showing up for the fight exhausted.

00:07:33.000 Overtraining is a big thing, yeah.

00:07:34.000 You see, the process for muscle growth is you go in the gym and you put stress on the muscle.

00:07:39.000 If you put stress that it's not used to, Then it's going to react.

00:07:43.000 You're going to get growth.

00:07:44.000 But you need to recover from that first.

00:07:46.000 You don't go to the gym and grow and then recover later.

00:07:49.000 That's not the way it works.

00:07:52.000 If you give your body some stress it's not used to, you'll get a reaction.

00:07:56.000 But before you get the reaction, you have to recover.

00:07:59.000 So if you're not allowing enough time to recover, you just...

00:08:02.000 I use this analogy at seminars I do.

00:08:04.000 It's very simplistic, but it gets the point across.

00:08:07.000 If you get a bit of sandpaper and you rub it across the palm of your hand and it's kind of bloody, if you leave it and let it heal up, what's going to happen?

00:08:14.000 The skin's going to develop back a little bit stronger, a little bit thicker than before because it wants to protect against that stress.

00:08:20.000 So...

00:08:21.000 That's the process.

00:08:22.000 But if you go and you make your hand bloody, and before it's healed up again, you go and rub it again, What's happening?

00:08:28.000 You're not really getting anywhere.

00:08:29.000 You're just going to have a bloody hand. 1.00

00:08:30.000 You think you're being tough, but you're actually just being silly. 0.99

00:08:33.000 Why are you going to the gym? 0.93

00:08:36.000 I'm going to the gym to get results.

00:08:38.000 I'm going to do whatever it takes to get results.

00:08:40.000 If it means training 30 minutes once a week or it means training 10 hours a day every day, whatever it takes, I was willing to do it and I would have done it.

00:08:47.000 Training 10 hours a day is not going to build your muscle.

00:08:50.000 It's just going to burn out.

00:08:52.000 I was doing average 45-50 minute workouts probably four times a week.

00:08:56.000 Really?

00:08:57.000 That's it?

00:08:58.000 Wow.

00:08:58.000 That's incredible.

00:08:59.000 And everybody says, oh, that's it.

00:09:01.000 I write on a piece of paper. 1.00

00:09:02.000 What the fuck is that? 0.99

00:09:03.000 That's nothing, man. 0.99

00:09:04.000 I'm like, okay, but come and do it.

00:09:06.000 Come and do it and tell me if you want to do more when we're finished.

00:09:10.000 Nobody has ever said, oh, please, can we do some more?

00:09:12.000 They're like, no, that's it.

00:09:13.000 That's enough.

00:09:14.000 Because every set, by the warm-up sets, you've got to warm up to be safe and everything.

00:09:20.000 But the set, the real sets, I call them, we're going to go to absolute failure and even beyond with force reps, with assistance reps, maybe extra negative reps, which is something that most people neglect when they lift weights.

00:09:33.000 They think, you know, I've lifted it.

00:09:35.000 All right, boom, let it go down.

00:09:36.000 I've lifted it.

00:09:38.000 But they're neglecting the lowering part of the weight, the negative.

00:09:41.000 So I get people to really slow that down so you're taxing that part as well.

00:09:44.000 And even at the end of the set, on some exercises with machines where it's practical, so you can't curl anymore physically on the positive, on the contraction.

00:09:53.000 But your strength on the lowering is greater.

00:09:55.000 So if you did curls and you failed, I could lift the weight to the top for you and you could lower it down for probably another three reps.

00:10:02.000 So, if you had just gone to failure here, you wouldn't have exhausted the negative part of the rep.

00:10:06.000 So, my thing is to exhaust everything. 1.00

00:10:08.000 It's totally fucked. 0.99

00:10:09.000 You can't lift, you can't lower it, you can't lift it. 1.00

00:10:12.000 It's total failure.

00:10:13.000 If you do that once on an exercise, then time to move on.

00:10:17.000 Do another exercise.

00:10:18.000 How did you develop your protocol?

00:10:19.000 Just trial and error?

00:10:20.000 Trial and error and, you know, I didn't invent this system of training.

00:10:24.000 As I said, people there before me, Arthur Jones, Mike Mensah, I just took what they did and refined it a little bit more for a competitive bodybuilder because...

00:10:32.000 Arthur Jones was a competitive bodybuilder.

00:10:34.000 The people he trained weren't.

00:10:35.000 So his routines were even briefer than mine.

00:10:38.000 But for a bodybuilder, you know, you've got to work the side.

00:10:41.000 You've got to work different aspects.

00:10:43.000 So I probably did a little bit more than they did.

00:10:46.000 So I adapted it to myself and my needs.

00:10:48.000 Now, when you were at your height and when you're 265 pounds shredded and dehydrated and then 310 pounds in the offseason, you must be used to looking at yourself like that.

00:11:01.000 Was it hard to adapt to being...

00:11:03.000 I mean, you're still obviously a very fit guy, but you're a normal...

00:11:06.000 If I saw you, I'd be like, there's a normal fit guy.

00:11:09.000 Yeah.

00:11:10.000 That's what I want to be now.

00:11:11.000 I'm not training for bodybuilding because it's not what I want to do now.

00:11:15.000 Plus, I got a lot of injuries from all those super heavyweights I did.

00:11:18.000 I got a torn rotor cough, which is not...

00:11:21.000 I've had a couple of surgeries on there.

00:11:23.000 It doesn't repair.

00:11:25.000 I was trying to lift weights and continue to do what I do because that's what I'm used to doing, right?

00:11:30.000 Right.

00:11:31.000 When you're familiar with doing something, you're reluctant to change to something else.

00:11:35.000 But I noticed my shoulders getting a bit worse, my hips were getting...

00:11:39.000 I'm like, hold on.

00:11:41.000 Is this serving me now?

00:11:42.000 Why am I doing this?

00:11:43.000 Am I doing this just to try and maintain something for other people, what they think I should look like?

00:11:49.000 And I kind of came to the conclusion, yeah, you are.

00:11:51.000 Because you're not a bodybuilder anymore.

00:11:53.000 You're not competing.

00:11:54.000 So if doing this kind of training is not really benefiting you and it's maybe making your injuries worse...

00:12:01.000 You know, when you're 60 or something, you're not going to be able to lift your arms up or something like that.

00:12:06.000 So I'm thinking more practically.

00:12:08.000 And I started doing yoga.

00:12:11.000 I really fell in love with that.

00:12:13.000 It's amazing, isn't it?

00:12:14.000 Yeah, it's amazing.

00:12:16.000 Physically, it's amazing.

00:12:17.000 I got much more range of motion, mobility, and then you got the spiritual aspect of it as well.

00:12:26.000 Actually, I was inspired to do yoga from a DMT trip. 0.92

00:12:30.000 I did a DMT trip and I came back and I was like, my body's all fucked up. 0.97

00:12:34.000 This ain't right. 0.80

00:12:35.000 I've got to fix some stuff here.

00:12:37.000 What shall I do?

00:12:38.000 I don't even...

00:12:40.000 I vaguely knew what yoga was, but I don't really know what it was.

00:12:43.000 And I got to do something.

00:12:44.000 I got to do yoga or tai chi.

00:12:46.000 I don't know what it is, but I started looking into it and then found a yoga teacher.

00:12:49.000 And I do that a couple times a week.

00:12:51.000 I find it's great.

00:12:52.000 Every time I do it, I just think I should do more.

00:12:55.000 I did one this morning, and I got up this morning, did a yoga class at 8 o'clock, called the gym.

00:12:59.000 You know? 0.83

00:13:00.000 On an empty stomach, just had some water and some tea, and I fucking feel amazing all done from that. 0.51

00:13:04.000 Well, it just, to me, it feels like it connects everything.

00:13:07.000 It connects all the tissue from the back to the legs to the arms, like the neck and the core.

00:13:14.000 It strengthens all the connecting stuff.

00:13:16.000 Yeah, and you get energy flow.

00:13:18.000 It's going around.

00:13:19.000 And there's the thing with bodybuilding.

00:13:23.000 Because bodybuilding, you're isolating the muscles, right?

00:13:25.000 So you're isolating the bicep, you're isolating the tricep, you're isolating the deltoids, and putting stress on those muscles to maximize the muscle size of those individual muscles.

00:13:34.000 Right.

00:13:34.000 Which is great for bodybuilding, but your body doesn't function like that.

00:13:40.000 You know?

00:13:41.000 Right.

00:13:41.000 If you throw something or you throw a punch or, you know, you don't use one muscle.

00:13:46.000 You use, you know, it's a chain effect.

00:13:48.000 Your whole body works together.

00:13:50.000 And in bodybuilding, you don't really do that.

00:13:51.000 You don't learn to do that.

00:13:52.000 So that's what I've had to relearn, you know?

00:13:55.000 So when you exercise today, like, what kind of stuff do you do besides yoga?

00:13:59.000 I do yoga.

00:14:00.000 I do some cycling.

00:14:01.000 I live in Spain.

00:14:02.000 We've got some good hills there.

00:14:03.000 So I do...

00:14:04.000 Because I like to push, man.

00:14:05.000 I can't push the weights anymore.

00:14:06.000 I can't get in that zone, you know?

00:14:08.000 Right, right.

00:14:09.000 Because of my injuries.

00:14:10.000 So I've got to do something else.

00:14:11.000 Yoga is a challenge, you know, and it can continue to be like...

00:14:14.000 If I do that until I'm dropped down dead, 80 years old, there's always more that I can do.

00:14:19.000 You know, you can always do a bit more range or a bit more difficult pose.

00:14:22.000 So there's no ceiling there, you know?

00:14:25.000 With the bodybuilding, I've already been on the ceiling.

00:14:27.000 Yeah.

00:14:27.000 You know?

00:14:29.000 I do cycling a couple of times a week, up and down the hills.

00:14:31.000 So that's like...

00:14:33.000 You know, it's almost like intervals because you do a hill, it's intense, and then you go flat, and it's a bit easier.

00:14:38.000 So I enjoy doing that.

00:14:40.000 What made you move to Spain?

00:14:42.000 Well, I lived in the UK, and I started visiting Spain because it's in Marbella in Spain, the south coast of Spain.

00:14:48.000 It's got a very big British community there.

00:14:51.000 And the weather is amazing.

00:14:52.000 It's like LA. Marbella is like, for me, it reminds me a lot of LA, but a mini LA. Without all the bullshit and the traffic and the crime and all that kind of stuff, you know?

00:15:03.000 Right, okay. 0.99

00:15:04.000 So that's why I moved there.

00:15:06.000 That's nice.

00:15:07.000 Now, have you ever looked into anything for your shoulder, like stem cells or things along those lines?

00:15:11.000 No, I had...

00:15:12.000 There's a new surgery now because what happened, I tore my supraspinatus a couple of times and...

00:15:19.000 Because the end was badly frayed, they had to chop off the end.

00:15:21.000 So now it doesn't really bridge the gap to the humerus.

00:15:25.000 So it needs a bridge.

00:15:26.000 And apparently there's a new surgery that they can make a bridge now.

00:15:30.000 But I went to see a surgeon and he's like, okay, what's three issues here?

00:15:34.000 Pain?

00:15:34.000 Do you have pain?

00:15:35.000 I'm like, no.

00:15:37.000 Not really.

00:15:38.000 Have range of motion.

00:15:39.000 Actually, I got more range than the other shoulder.

00:15:41.000 It's a bit loose.

00:15:43.000 So the only issue with mine is strength and stability.

00:15:48.000 And he wasn't able to give me 100% on whether the surgery would do that for me.

00:15:53.000 And I've had about six surgeries.

00:15:55.000 I had a tendon reattachment here, about three on the shoulder.

00:15:58.000 I had some on the hips.

00:15:59.000 And I'm like, you know what?

00:16:00.000 Unless you're going to tell me 100% that going through the inconvenience and pain of a surgery is going to give me what I need, then I'm not going to do it.

00:16:08.000 I'm just going to cope with this.

00:16:09.000 And I can't bench press, but so what?

00:16:13.000 It doesn't really matter that much to me.

00:16:15.000 Can you do push-ups or just anything?

00:16:17.000 I can do some push-ups, but probably like 10, where before I'd do like 100 or something.

00:16:22.000 So, it's very weak and unstable.

00:16:24.000 So, yeah, sure, if I had a surgeon that says to me, listen, man, we're going to do this, and I guarantee you your shoulder's going to be stronger and more stable after it, because, you know, you've got to sit with your...

00:16:34.000 In a sling for like six to eight weeks.

00:16:36.000 You can't shower properly.

00:16:37.000 You can't dress and pain and all this stuff.

00:16:39.000 So for me to go through that again, I would have to have like, yeah, this is definitely going to help.

00:16:44.000 Then I would consider it.

00:16:45.000 Until then, I live with it.

00:16:46.000 They're doing some pretty amazing stuff now with stem cells.

00:16:49.000 Yeah, they can maybe grow some tendon tissue.

00:16:53.000 Yeah, they can do a lot of soft tissue regeneration.

00:16:55.000 They're also doing it now, the most recent thing is they're combining stem cells with platelet-rich plasma.

00:17:00.000 They're doing it together, and they found that by doing the stem cells and the PRP together, it helps generate new tissue growth better.

00:17:07.000 Yeah, I know my wife, she had a knee surgery, and she had the PRP, and the recovery was real quick, so...

00:17:12.000 Yeah, it's nice.

00:17:12.000 She had meniscus, is that what it was?

00:17:14.000 Yeah.

00:17:14.000 So, yeah, if there's any surgeons out there that know how to repair Dorian's shortened supraspinators, let me know, man.

00:17:21.000 Now, is your situation very similar to what a lot of bodybuilders face after they retire?

00:17:28.000 There's just so much stress and strain on the joints and the back?

00:17:32.000 Yeah, well, Ronnie Coleman, who was Mr. Olympia after me, and...

00:17:38.000 He's had a serious back surgery, right?

00:17:39.000 Super strong, yeah.

00:17:40.000 He did a lot of really heavy squatting.

00:17:43.000 Also, when he was getting ready for a bodybuilding competition, basically doing powerlifting, which is probably not a good idea.

00:17:49.000 So Ronnie has a lot of problems with his discs in his back.

00:17:54.000 I'm not sure of all the details, but I know he's had a lot of fusions, so his mobility and so on is going to be very limited.

00:17:59.000 More than one fusion?

00:18:01.000 Yeah, several.

00:18:02.000 So he can't really turn his neck and his back too good.

00:18:05.000 He's had both of his hips replaced.

00:18:07.000 Oh, Jesus Christ.

00:18:08.000 He's a young guy, too.

00:18:09.000 How old is Ron?

00:18:10.000 He's like 36?

00:18:11.000 No, no.

00:18:11.000 Ron is like almost my age.

00:18:13.000 He's probably early 50s.

00:18:14.000 Is he?

00:18:14.000 Yeah.

00:18:15.000 Why do I think he's younger than that?

00:18:16.000 Well, he's retired now.

00:18:17.000 Maybe I'm thinking...

00:18:18.000 I should have said 46 instead of 36. But, you know, he did...

00:18:21.000 We both...

00:18:22.000 We're known to be very strong, running even more so than myself because I did powerlifting before.

00:18:26.000 So we moved some heavyweights and, you know, any sport, man, you're going to have some consequences.

00:18:33.000 Yeah, no doubt.

00:18:34.000 If you run, if you fight and play football, whatever, anything has its downside.

00:18:40.000 But all things considering, I think I'm doing pretty good.

00:18:44.000 I'm healthy.

00:18:45.000 You know, I got a dicky shoulder, so big deal.

00:18:48.000 It's okay.

00:18:49.000 Yeah, I'm telling you, man.

00:18:50.000 Just hang in there.

00:18:51.000 They're on their way to figuring something out for that.

00:18:53.000 Yeah, that's almost what I'm thinking.

00:18:54.000 I'm thinking, like, don't do anything now because in a few years' time, there'll be something that can really do the job.

00:19:00.000 So I'll wait until then.

00:19:02.000 Yeah, the last thing you want to do is get something.

00:19:04.000 Like, I always tell that to my friends that are thinking about getting discs fused.

00:19:07.000 I'm like, you know, they're so close.

00:19:09.000 They're now shooting...

00:19:11.000 They're shooting stem cells into the discs directly and regenerating disc tissue the same way they've been regenerating meniscus tissue and tendon tissue and things along those lines.

00:19:19.000 I met a guy that trained out here many years ago in LA and he told me they were, and I've seen before and after x-rays of joints, That the joint's destroyed, he's got no cartilage, so you're looking at a replacement, and these guys have actually regenerated the tissue back.

00:19:35.000 But it's quite a lengthy process of traction, like hanging upside down, hours of ultrasound, just to push a ton of blood into the area, blood supply, and then you can heal it up.

00:19:45.000 You can actually regrow cartilage tissue, but it's not...

00:19:49.000 It's not quick.

00:19:50.000 It's not on the protocol of the medical association, so they basically push these guys out of business with lawsuits.

00:19:56.000 Well, you know, there's a doctor that we've talked about on the podcast before that recommends hanging from bars for your shoulders.

00:20:03.000 It's one of the best things ever to alleviate pain and also to increase range of motion and reduce impingements.

00:20:10.000 Well, I have to get in touch with this guy.

00:20:12.000 Yeah, well, there's a bunch of videos.

00:20:13.000 I hang from my feet from my back.

00:20:14.000 I've got the inversion table, and I do that a couple of times a week just to, you know, keep the mobility there.

00:20:19.000 I know one of my discs, L5, is a little bit worn, but I don't do squats or heavy overhead stuff, so I think it's going to be okay.

00:20:26.000 But yeah, still, you know, it's all about prevention, man.

00:20:30.000 Have you heard of the reverse hyper machine?

00:20:32.000 Have you seen that thing?

00:20:33.000 No.

00:20:33.000 No?

00:20:33.000 We have one in the back.

00:20:34.000 I'll show it to you.

00:20:35.000 But it's a creation of Westside Barbell.

00:20:38.000 You know Louie Simmons?

00:20:39.000 Yeah, I've heard of him. 1.00

00:20:40.000 That crazy bastard? 1.00

00:20:41.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:20:41.000 Louie Simmons created this machine that when you lift your legs up, it strengthens the back and on the down, when it swings down, it's active decompression. 1.00

00:20:51.000 Okay, yeah.

00:20:51.000 It's phenomenal for disc issues.

00:20:53.000 It's like active decompression plus strengthening together.

00:20:56.000 I have one back here.

00:20:57.000 I love it so much.

00:20:58.000 Sounds great.

00:20:58.000 Let's have a look at that later on.

00:20:59.000 Yeah, there it is like this.

00:21:00.000 You can see it up here.

00:21:01.000 We've talked about this so many times, people would think this guy's hired me to endorse his product, but it's an amazing product.

00:21:08.000 I want to see how that is.

00:21:08.000 Yeah, it's a reverse of the hyperextension almost.

00:21:11.000 Play it so he can explain it, Jamie, so he can hear it.

00:21:12.000 He knows the range of motion at the top.

00:21:14.000 Squeeze the glutes.

00:21:15.000 Good.

00:21:16.000 Squeeze, control, release.

00:21:18.000 Squeeze, control, release.

00:21:20.000 She drops her head, raise her head on the way up, drops on the way down. 0.98

00:21:22.000 Full flexion and extension of the spine.

00:21:26.000 This will absolutely help cure a bulging disc.

00:21:29.000 This is traction.

00:21:32.000 I need to get one of those for my wife. 1.00

00:21:34.000 She's got a disc, bulging discs.

00:21:37.000 Well, your wife looks very fit, so I'm sure she does a lot of lifting as well.

00:21:41.000 Absolutely, yeah.

00:21:42.000 She was a world champion as well in her field, you know.

00:21:45.000 It's so common for anybody that puts any strain in their body.

00:21:48.000 Usually the L5, L4 area on the bottom of the spine.

00:21:52.000 Yeah.

00:21:53.000 One of the things about bodybuilding is that in isolation, when you're constantly isolating these things, Does that run the risk of, like, weakening certain areas?

00:22:03.000 Like, you have to be, I would imagine, very cognizant about balancing everything out.

00:22:09.000 I think, like, with bodybuilders, a shoulder injury is the most common because you've got the rotor cuff, which is small muscles and tendons, which gives you the mobility.

00:22:18.000 That's why you can move it around rather than being a hinge.

00:22:21.000 So what happens is, you know, your pecs are getting stronger, your delts, your lats, all these external muscles are getting bigger and stronger, but these guys inside are not.

00:22:29.000 So eventually they get overloaded and you get some kind of issue there, some kind of tear.

00:22:34.000 So when I'm training people now, I give them rotation exercises just to strengthen those areas so they can avoid that.

00:22:40.000 But, hey man, I started training in the 80s.

00:22:43.000 Like, we didn't know anything.

00:22:44.000 And when I got an injury...

00:22:46.000 And I live in England as well.

00:22:48.000 There's no sports medicine doctors dealing with, you know, strength athletes or so on.

00:22:53.000 So I just go to your doctor and he's like, how do you do that?

00:22:56.000 Lifting weights? 1.00

00:22:57.000 Stop doing that shit. 1.00

00:22:59.000 Why are you lifting weights? 1.00

00:23:00.000 Take these pills and, you know, that's it.

00:23:03.000 So now we have much more information, much more, you know, sports therapists and so on.

00:23:10.000 So there's a lot more things available now and a lot more knowledge and information that we didn't really have back then.

00:23:16.000 Yeah, that's the main thing.

00:23:18.000 You neglect some of the smaller supporting muscles, I think, when you're doing major bodybuilding exercises.

00:23:25.000 Do guys now address that?

00:23:27.000 Do they do a lot of rotation exercises, a lot of rotator cuff stuff? 0.87

00:23:32.000 You know, if you did that back in the 80s, people were like, what the fuck are you doing there with that little weight?

00:23:36.000 You know, lift some weights. 0.91

00:23:39.000 But I see people doing it now and with the bands and everything.

00:23:42.000 So, yeah, people are doing more preventive stuff.

00:23:45.000 It's fascinating because there's guys like Arnold, who were kind of the original pioneers, and then guys like you who came after him.

00:23:52.000 But you were still, again, pre-internet, figuring things out on your own, learning from the guys that came before you, but taking it to another level.

00:24:00.000 That was the beauty of it for me. 0.99

00:24:01.000 I never really liked team sports because I just feel like this asshole is letting me down here. 0.98

00:24:07.000 And I felt like that through my life as well. 0.99

00:24:10.000 Like my parents didn't really, you know, like everyone's fucking letting me down. 1.00

00:24:14.000 Fuck this. 1.00

00:24:14.000 I'll do this myself. 1.00

00:24:16.000 And so I got to learn about the nutrition.

00:24:18.000 I got to learn about the training.

00:24:19.000 I got to do it.

00:24:20.000 I got to pull it all into action.

00:24:21.000 And of course, I had people like supporting me.

00:24:24.000 But when I got on that stage, it was win or lose.

00:24:28.000 I'm taking full responsibility for this.

00:24:31.000 And we don't really have that now.

00:24:33.000 And the guys don't learn anything because they got coaches.

00:24:36.000 So what should I do, boss?

00:24:37.000 Do this, do that, and eat this and eat that.

00:24:39.000 Okay.

00:24:40.000 And, you know, the beauty of it's gone.

00:24:43.000 You're not learning anything anymore.

00:24:45.000 And what if you fall out with your coach?

00:24:46.000 Like, what are you going to do next contest?

00:24:48.000 You know?

00:24:49.000 So is that like a big thing now?

00:24:50.000 Like there's like a series of coaches?

00:24:52.000 Is it like MMA camps?

00:24:53.000 It's a huge thing.

00:24:54.000 And it's like, I don't know. 0.97

00:24:56.000 I think the guys are suckers because who's making the money here? 0.99

00:25:00.000 The coaches. 0.99

00:25:02.000 The coaches are making the money, not the competitors.

00:25:05.000 The coaches are smart. 0.99

00:25:06.000 And I look at the coaches and I say, who the fuck are you and what have you done? 1.00

00:25:10.000 You know? 0.99

00:25:11.000 Which contest have you actually won?

00:25:13.000 Most of them haven't done anything.

00:25:14.000 It's just all theory.

00:25:17.000 So what are they, exercise physiologists?

00:25:21.000 No, they're just guys from the industry that, you know...

00:25:26.000 They've trained a few people and they've got a few results.

00:25:29.000 For me, it's more about the insecurity of the guys competing.

00:25:34.000 Why don't you learn yourself and listen to your body?

00:25:37.000 I used to make notes.

00:25:39.000 Every week I'd write down my diet.

00:25:41.000 Every single workout that I ever did from 1984 to 1997 I have in a training log.

00:25:47.000 You should sell that.

00:25:49.000 Print it.

00:25:50.000 Maybe, yeah.

00:25:50.000 Print it.

00:25:50.000 It's in a book.

00:25:51.000 It's in all these little exercise books, you know, and like you can see the first one when I'm like 21 years old is a bit childish with the comments. 0.97

00:25:58.000 It's like, you know, I felt shit today. 0.98

00:26:00.000 This was a shitty workout. 1.00

00:26:01.000 Never fucking let this happen again. 1.00

00:26:03.000 You know, all this stuff. 0.99

00:26:04.000 I'm talking to myself.

00:26:05.000 So I got all this and I go back and look at it sometimes and it's weird because I can go back to 1988 and I can look in my book and I look at that workout and I was like...

00:26:17.000 I was in this gym, and I was training with this guy, and I can't even remember what I was wearing.

00:26:23.000 I can go back in time and remember that workout.

00:26:26.000 Just from those notes?

00:26:27.000 Yeah.

00:26:27.000 Every workout, as soon as I got home and I finished, I was like, hey, bench press, I did this.

00:26:31.000 And every month, I would make notes, and I'd say, okay, this is what I'm doing now.

00:26:36.000 These are my goals for the next four weeks.

00:26:38.000 You know, whatever.

00:26:39.000 Like, little goals.

00:26:40.000 Like, I'm gonna put five pounds on my bench press.

00:26:42.000 But if you do that every month, then at the end of the month, in the year, you got 60 pounds, right?

00:26:47.000 So, I did all these things like, you know, mental rehearsal, visualization, all this stuff.

00:26:56.000 I did it.

00:26:56.000 I just, I kind of learned it.

00:26:58.000 Nobody taught me.

00:26:59.000 So, that was one of the things, goal setting.

00:27:01.000 And writing it down on a piece of paper, And you can do this with anything.

00:27:06.000 Your business, whatever.

00:27:07.000 You're writing it down on a piece of paper.

00:27:09.000 You're making a commitment. 1.00

00:27:10.000 It's fucking there on a piece of paper. 0.99

00:27:11.000 Every day you can look at that. 1.00

00:27:13.000 And that just gives you a stronger mental vision.

00:27:16.000 And instead of saying, right, I'm going to win this contest in 18 months' time.

00:27:21.000 Yeah, that's cool.

00:27:21.000 You're going to win that contest.

00:27:23.000 But how are you going to get there?

00:27:24.000 It's like saying, I'm going to sail to Australia.

00:27:27.000 Yeah, that's a good idea.

00:27:28.000 That's cool.

00:27:28.000 But how are you going to get there?

00:27:29.000 Have you got a plan?

00:27:30.000 Have you got a map? 1.00

00:27:30.000 Like, fuck, you're going to go with no map? 1.00

00:27:32.000 You're just going to get lost, you know? 1.00

00:27:33.000 So...

00:27:34.000 I found that very helpful, and that's what I try to teach people as well, you know?

00:27:37.000 Yeah, I think writing down goals is huge, and it's something that most people don't do.

00:27:41.000 Yeah, I still do it now, like a daily thing.

00:27:43.000 This is what I've got to do today.

00:27:45.000 Sometimes I won't get through it all, but, you know, at least it's there.

00:27:47.000 I might put a couple of things off for tomorrow, but I find it very, very helpful, yeah.

00:27:52.000 And when you've read it down, like, you know, like, let's say, I don't know, you want to stop drinking or something.

00:27:58.000 Write it down.

00:27:59.000 I'm going to stop drinking alcohol.

00:28:01.000 Sign it. 1.00

00:28:02.000 You fucking put it there on your table. 1.00

00:28:04.000 You've said that, man. 1.00

00:28:05.000 You've said it.

00:28:06.000 You've said it.

00:28:06.000 You've made the commitment.

00:28:07.000 You've put it on a paper.

00:28:08.000 So you're going to let yourself down. 1.00

00:28:11.000 You're going to be a pussy. 1.00

00:28:12.000 You're going to be weak. 1.00

00:28:12.000 You're going to break that. 1.00

00:28:13.000 You made that commitment, man.

00:28:15.000 Right.

00:28:15.000 You know, it's there on a piece of paper.

00:28:17.000 That's strong.

00:28:19.000 Especially for the type of person like you, a dedicated, focused guy.

00:28:22.000 Something like that is just extra motivation.

00:28:26.000 It's a scaffolding of your ideas.

00:28:28.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:28:29.000 It's there.

00:28:29.000 It's solid.

00:28:30.000 Just say it casually. 0.98

00:28:32.000 I fucking committed to this. 0.98

00:28:33.000 I wrote it down. 0.99

00:28:34.000 Yeah, I'm a firm believer.

00:28:36.000 I think you should, at least for a week, you know, at least for your week, set it out.

00:28:40.000 And have a little checkbox next to it.

00:28:42.000 Make sure you can look at that.

00:28:43.000 Like, I did this.

00:28:44.000 I got my workouts in.

00:28:45.000 I got my whatever you need to get done.

00:28:48.000 Whatever you're trying to slack off.

00:28:50.000 There's five things to do there.

00:28:51.000 I did four of them.

00:28:52.000 I didn't do the fifth one because I smoked a joint.

00:28:56.000 Four out of five.

00:28:56.000 Yeah, it's not bad.

00:28:57.000 Four out of five.

00:28:58.000 I reward myself.

00:28:59.000 If you do write things down, though, you'll just get more done.

00:29:02.000 Even if you don't fulfill the entire list, you'll get more done.

00:29:05.000 You're going to get more done than if you didn't do it.

00:29:08.000 100%.

00:29:08.000 It's having a plan, man.

00:29:09.000 Everything needs a plan.

00:29:10.000 If you want to get somewhere, I'll use that analogy.

00:29:12.000 If you want to get somewhere, if you're a captain on a ship, you don't just get on a ship and say, hey, let's go sailing and we're going to get there.

00:29:18.000 No, you're probably not.

00:29:20.000 You need a route to get there.

00:29:22.000 And you need to know What it takes to get there.

00:29:25.000 Oh, I'm gonna do this.

00:29:26.000 I'm gonna do this fight and competition.

00:29:28.000 Yeah, cool.

00:29:30.000 But do you know what it takes to get there?

00:29:33.000 Right?

00:29:33.000 First of all, this is what it takes.

00:29:35.000 Okay?

00:29:35.000 Are you prepared to do this?

00:29:36.000 Are you gonna do this?

00:29:37.000 Yes or no?

00:29:38.000 And if it's yes, go for it.

00:29:40.000 You know, if it's too much, be honest. 0.95

00:29:42.000 Just don't fucking do it, you know? 0.97

00:29:44.000 There was a time when you were at the top of the heap where there was debate As to like what a bodybuilder should look like. 0.99

00:29:53.000 There was like the Frank Zane look, which was like a strong, obviously fit guy, but much smaller and just symmetrical. 0.99

00:30:03.000 And then there was you that just came out like the fucking Hulk. 0.97

00:30:06.000 And then it was almost like overwhelming for a lot of people. 0.99

00:30:10.000 And then there was this debate to try to figure out.

00:30:12.000 Absolutely, yeah.

00:30:12.000 Because when I look at a bunch of bodybuilders on a stage and they're trying to pick out who's number one, who's number two, I'm like...

00:30:20.000 I mean, I always assume that it's like a lot of other things, like the deeper you are into it, the more you can see the intricacies of it.

00:30:27.000 Whereas for me, a person is not a bodybuilder. 0.98

00:30:29.000 I'm like, they're all fucking huge! 0.97

00:30:31.000 How can you tell who's the best? 0.97

00:30:34.000 Well, it's a matter of, you know, it's bodybuilding, right?

00:30:37.000 Yeah.

00:30:38.000 So it's muscle size is a big factor.

00:30:40.000 It's not the only factor, but it is a big factor. 0.94

00:30:42.000 If you look at the Mr. Olympus, for instance, in the era of Frank Zane, And Frank Zane is a body that probably most people would look at and say, fucking hell, that's it, that's great, you know? 0.76

00:30:55.000 They'd probably look at me and say, it's too extreme.

00:31:00.000 But in the era of Frank Zane, who was Mr. Olympia?

00:31:03.000 It was Arnold.

00:31:04.000 Right.

00:31:04.000 Arnold was Mr. Olympia.

00:31:06.000 You could argue that Frank Zane's body is more aesthetic and nicer and prettier than Arnold's, but Arnold beats him.

00:31:13.000 Why?

00:31:13.000 He just was bigger.

00:31:15.000 More freakishly impressive.

00:31:16.000 Yeah, he's bigger.

00:31:17.000 And Lee Haney was eight times Mr. Olympia.

00:31:21.000 You could argue maybe Lee Lebrard or somebody like that was better proportioned and put together, but he was much smaller.

00:31:29.000 Frank Zane looks like a guy you would see in a gym today, like a regular dude.

00:31:33.000 There's a lot of regular dudes like that.

00:31:36.000 Yeah, there's a category now.

00:31:38.000 So you've got bodybuilding.

00:31:40.000 But you've got other categories now that you didn't have.

00:31:42.000 So you've got men's physique, which is more of this type of physique they're looking for.

00:31:48.000 Very aesthetic, tight waist, everything like that.

00:31:50.000 And you've even got classic bodybuilding now, which is height over weight ratio.

00:31:56.000 So, you know, the guys are not that big.

00:31:58.000 So you've got different categories as a reaction to people not really liking the direction that bodybuilding went in.

00:32:03.000 And, yeah, I'll take responsibility for it going the size route.

00:32:08.000 And I had a nice physique when I started.

00:32:11.000 You know, I had a nice physique.

00:32:12.000 I had nice abs and everything.

00:32:14.000 But I'm like, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this to the max.

00:32:17.000 I'm going to see how far...

00:32:18.000 You know, how big can I get?

00:32:19.000 How ripped can I get?

00:32:20.000 How strong can I get?

00:32:21.000 I want to go to the max.

00:32:23.000 And I don't want people to say, oh, that's...

00:32:25.000 Wow, that's a nice, pretty physique. 0.99

00:32:27.000 I want people to say, what the fuck is that? 0.99

00:32:30.000 That's what I wanted to do. 0.99

00:32:31.000 Well, you succeeded in that.

00:32:33.000 You definitely succeeded in that.

00:32:35.000 Yeah, the guy that inspired me before that was Tom Platz. 0.99

00:32:38.000 I don't know if you know Tom Platz with the fucking freaky legs. 0.92

00:32:41.000 You know, he was... 0.98

00:32:42.000 The guy, when I started, he wasn't Mr. Olympia, but he was very inspirational.

00:32:48.000 And when he talked, he was just full of energy and enthusiasm for the training and pushing the body to his absolute...

00:32:58.000 Maximum.

00:32:58.000 And I remember Tom Platt saying, you know, when I walk out on stage at a bodybuilding competition, I want to see those judges there with the pencil and the paper.

00:33:07.000 And I just wanted to fucking drop that pencil and just say, what the fuck is that? 0.99

00:33:13.000 His legs were so big. 1.00

00:33:15.000 His legs were so freakishly big. 0.56

00:33:18.000 Like, that guy had legs.

00:33:19.000 Nobody has really surpassed Tom Platz's leg development, I don't think.

00:33:24.000 To this day, it's fair to say.

00:33:26.000 Now, is that just...

00:33:27.000 It's weird because it's very rare that someone's known very specifically for a body part the way Platz is known for his legs.

00:33:33.000 But Platz made a whole career on the legs and not only the legs, the...

00:33:40.000 This passion he had for pushing himself into the gym to the absolute maximum.

00:33:45.000 And that inspired me to do that and try and take it even further.

00:33:49.000 And that now is missing.

00:33:51.000 That's not here anymore.

00:33:52.000 Now, for me, the bodybuilding and the fitness industry, people are just really more concerned with the cosmetic, the look, and taking their pictures and putting them on Instagram and all this kind of stuff.

00:34:05.000 They're not really into...

00:34:08.000 It's almost a spiritual side of it, where you want to push yourself to that maximum and see how far your mind can go into the pain and all that kind of stuff.

00:34:19.000 That's not really there anymore.

00:34:21.000 What's missing?

00:34:22.000 What's the element that's missing?

00:34:24.000 Why isn't that there?

00:34:26.000 I don't know, man.

00:34:28.000 Maybe it's just a reflection of society in general.

00:34:31.000 People just want stuff easy now.

00:34:35.000 Everyone wants to be famous.

00:34:36.000 Put the picture on Instagram. 0.99

00:34:37.000 You don't need to do shit. 0.99

00:34:38.000 Just be famous. 1.00

00:34:40.000 Go on Big Brother.

00:34:40.000 Be famous for nothing.

00:34:42.000 You've done nothing.

00:34:44.000 I don't know.

00:34:44.000 I think that's a reflection of the way things are, perhaps, in everything.

00:34:48.000 But what's the difference in the way the bodybuilders approach it today?

00:34:51.000 I mean, they're obviously doing something because they're still huge, and there's still, you know, these giant guys that are lifting weights.

00:34:59.000 So what element...

00:35:00.000 But if you look at the giant guys that are lifting weights now, they don't look quite like myself and the guys from the 90s.

00:35:07.000 Now the guys are just big everywhere.

00:35:09.000 The waists are huge.

00:35:10.000 Everything's huge.

00:35:13.000 And it's 20 years since I competed in a contest, so I don't exactly know.

00:35:17.000 But the guys are using a lot more different drugs than we used to.

00:35:21.000 A lot more insulin and IGF, things like that.

00:35:25.000 So I think what you're seeing in the big guys is somewhat systemic growth.

00:35:30.000 It's like they just got a bit bigger everywhere.

00:35:32.000 And that doesn't look...

00:35:35.000 So appealing, I think.

00:35:36.000 Right, when like their guts extend. 1.00

00:35:38.000 Yeah, so maybe they're relying more on the chemicals and they don't really...

00:35:42.000 You know, I haven't really heard anything from any of the bodybuilding champions in the last 10 or 15 years.

00:35:48.000 Anything interesting or new or revolutionary in their training methods.

00:35:54.000 It just, you know, they don't really even talk about it that much now.

00:35:58.000 Everyone just does the same stuff, you know.

00:35:59.000 Well, it was at one point in time when no one talked about it at all, right?

00:36:02.000 Like it was, you would get the magazines and they would tell you to take creatine and you could look like me, but everybody kind of knew, everybody who knew people, who knew people.

00:36:12.000 It was somewhat of an inner circle.

00:36:14.000 You know, I remember I started in the 80s and I read the magazines and I saw a few things by Arnold and Mike Mansa where they kind of admitted they used something, but they very downplayed it.

00:36:25.000 Oh, it's only for the last six weeks before a competition just to give us that last polish and stuff like that.

00:36:31.000 And I asked a few guys in the gym, and when I first started, they were a bit cagey, like, no, no, no, no, I don't do that.

00:36:39.000 You know, later on I found out they're all doing it, right?

00:36:42.000 Yeah.

00:36:43.000 And it was very much an inner circle, in the gym, bodybuilders.

00:36:47.000 Now everybody knows about steroids, and now it's mainstream.

00:36:51.000 And guys take steroids now just for cosmetic reasons, because they want to look bigger and harder and quicker.

00:36:59.000 I just equate it to women having Botox or having some implants. 1.00

00:37:02.000 The guys want to look bigger.

00:37:04.000 They don't want to work so hard.

00:37:06.000 They just want it quick, right?

00:37:07.000 So you get guys coming to the gym and they just take steroids pretty much straight away.

00:37:13.000 And they don't necessarily learn how to train really properly.

00:37:18.000 And it's not just competitive bodybuilders now.

00:37:22.000 I mean, it's everywhere.

00:37:23.000 It's everywhere.

00:37:24.000 It's mainstream.

00:37:25.000 You look at Hollywood.

00:37:26.000 You look at hip-hop artists.

00:37:27.000 I mean, come on.

00:37:28.000 They're all doing a bit of juice, man.

00:37:30.000 Look at Nelly 10 years ago and look at him now, man.

00:37:33.000 I haven't really been paying attention to Nelly.

00:37:36.000 There's a lot of them.

00:37:37.000 Nelly, Cool J. They're all Jack, man.

00:37:43.000 There's no fault in me.

00:37:43.000 I can see what's going on.

00:37:45.000 Guys from Hollywood, they want to get in shape quickly for a movie.

00:37:48.000 Right.

00:37:49.000 You know, guys just want to look good on the beach.

00:37:52.000 It's everywhere now.

00:37:54.000 It's mainstream.

00:37:54.000 Of course.

00:37:55.000 There's Nelly. 1.00

00:37:55.000 Damn, Nelly's jacked. 1.00

00:37:56.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:37:57.000 We saw a picture of Hugh Jackman when he was preparing for Wolverine.

00:38:01.000 He was doing deadlifts.

00:38:03.000 And he was in his 40s, and someone was asking me, do you think he's doing it?

00:38:06.000 Yes!

00:38:07.000 Yeah, why not?

00:38:08.000 Yes, he is!

00:38:08.000 How much did he get paid for the movie as well?

00:38:10.000 Fuck yeah! 0.99

00:38:11.000 Well, not only that, for a guy that's not really that kind of an athlete to all of a sudden look like that, you've got to make some radical physiological changes. 0.99

00:38:20.000 Yeah, in a couple of months?

00:38:21.000 Yeah.

00:38:22.000 That's not even a good picture of him, man.

00:38:23.000 There's real good pictures of him jacked.

00:38:26.000 But, I mean, there's pictures of him from the movie, too.

00:38:29.000 He's enormous.

00:38:30.000 Like, he just became an enormous guy.

00:38:32.000 What I'm saying is, like, how much did he get paid for the movie?

00:38:35.000 My point is...

00:38:37.000 You know, he got paid for that.

00:38:38.000 So maybe he took a little health risk or whatever.

00:38:42.000 You can debate that, but he's getting paid for it. 0.98

00:38:45.000 But is it worth it if you're just doing it, just fucking look good on the beach or look good for the girls or something? 1.00

00:38:50.000 Depends on how much pussy you get. 1.00

00:38:52.000 You know what I'm saying? 1.00

00:38:53.000 Depends.

00:38:54.000 But here's the thing, man.

00:38:56.000 Once you get on that merry-go-round...

00:38:58.000 You don't want to get off.

00:38:59.000 That's the problem, right?

00:39:00.000 You don't want to get off because you took some stuff, you got bigger, you're getting more attention from the girls now, guys got more respect for you, your self-confidence is up.

00:39:12.000 You don't want to lose all that, man.

00:39:14.000 I'm not speaking personally, because I took it for a competitive sport, and when I stopped, I stopped.

00:39:19.000 That was it.

00:39:20.000 But that's my question.

00:39:21.000 How did you just accept the fact that you were no longer a superhuman-looking freak show of a man?

00:39:27.000 Now you became a regular man.

00:39:29.000 Was there a weird transition?

00:39:31.000 My whole thing was, with bodybuilding competition, I never showed my physique.

00:39:39.000 Even in the gym with the guys that I train with, I was covered up all the time.

00:39:43.000 If I want to look at my physique and practice my posing and stuff, I did it at home.

00:39:46.000 So on the street, I always wore long sleeves. 0.98

00:39:49.000 I don't give a shit about anybody else. 0.98

00:39:50.000 Why is that? 0.98

00:39:51.000 Because I did it purely for competition.

00:39:53.000 But why did you cover it?

00:39:54.000 Why didn't you just dress like normal?

00:39:56.000 Because it was too freakish? 1.00

00:39:57.000 Unwanted attention all the fucking time. 0.99

00:39:59.000 I'm not interested in it. 0.99

00:40:00.000 I'm a quiet guy and I just wanted to go about my business and reveal this...

00:40:06.000 I've been working on.

00:40:07.000 I didn't see it as being, it's almost removed.

00:40:10.000 It's like a statue I'm working on, you know?

00:40:13.000 So I wasn't tied up in, like, I was tied up in being Mr. Olympia because that's who I was and that, you know, somewhat a role you're playing.

00:40:21.000 But the whole huge body, I didn't need that for everyday use.

00:40:26.000 Well, that sort of fits with this whole Spartan image that people had of you.

00:40:31.000 The image of you was like this guy that was just doing work that other people weren't willing to do in some sort of quiet isolation somewhere.

00:40:38.000 Absolutely.

00:40:39.000 A dusty basement.

00:40:40.000 A basement in Birmingham, in the middle of England, where, you know...

00:40:44.000 It's not exactly a hotbed of bodybuilding activity.

00:40:47.000 No beaches or nothing.

00:40:48.000 It's an industrial city.

00:40:51.000 So I just locked myself away there and worked on this project.

00:40:54.000 And I loved doing it.

00:40:55.000 I loved just being in that tunnel and seeing what I could do.

00:40:59.000 And obviously, the further you get along, the more difficult it is to make any kind of improvements.

00:41:03.000 But I was trying.

00:41:05.000 That's fascinating to look at it that way.

00:41:07.000 It's almost like an art project.

00:41:09.000 It was a statue.

00:41:10.000 I was removed.

00:41:11.000 I wasn't like building this body so I could get, you know, admiring from the girls or the guys going to respect.

00:41:18.000 I was already like a fit, strong guy before I started, so I didn't come from that place of like, I need to do this to make myself feel better.

00:41:26.000 I need to do this because I have some talent for it and I can change my life with this, maybe.

00:41:32.000 I didn't know it was going to be Mr. Olympia, but I just knew that if I put my energy into this, something positive was going to come from it.

00:41:38.000 And after a few years, I won the British Championship.

00:41:41.000 And because of that, you know, I was British champion.

00:41:44.000 I didn't have a car.

00:41:45.000 I went home to one bedroom apartment with no furniture.

00:41:49.000 I didn't even have a proper bed.

00:41:50.000 I had a mattress on the floor.

00:41:52.000 I don't have a shirt, but I won the British Championship, and because of that, somebody put up the money for me to open a gym.

00:41:58.000 Then I had a gym, then I was making an income from my sport.

00:42:01.000 So even if it went that far, it would have been worth it, you know?

00:42:03.000 Wow.

00:42:05.000 Well, I think that attitude is probably what's made you very healthy, like mentally, afterwards.

00:42:11.000 The fact that you're separate from your body, and that it was a project.

00:42:14.000 There was a period afterwards that was very tough, because...

00:42:18.000 I was this guy, I was Mr. Olympia, and this is all I've been doing since I was 21 years old.

00:42:23.000 And then I got an injury.

00:42:25.000 So my exit from the sport was not calculated.

00:42:28.000 What injury was that?

00:42:29.000 I tore my tricep tendon on the left elbow, and this...

00:42:33.000 I had already one injury, a bicep tear, but I kind of handled that and it didn't affect my training too much.

00:42:39.000 But this was almost a complete detachment that I have to have repaired.

00:42:43.000 And after that, I just knew I couldn't lift properly.

00:42:46.000 You know, you can't compete with the rest of the world if you can't lift properly.

00:42:50.000 So I had to retire and then I was like in limbo. 0.94

00:42:54.000 I was like, who the fuck am I and what am I going to do with my life? 0.95

00:42:56.000 So it took me a few years to kind of... 0.98

00:43:00.000 Slowly get back.

00:43:01.000 But it wasn't about, oh, I've lost my muscles.

00:43:03.000 What am I going to do?

00:43:04.000 It was more about, you know, I don't know what my role is in life.

00:43:08.000 I don't know who I am.

00:43:08.000 It took me a long time to find that.

00:43:10.000 And I think a lot of athletes that retire from sport, they have the same issues.

00:43:16.000 It's a giant issue with fighters. 0.99

00:43:17.000 You know, you've got this fucking tunnel that you're in, right? 0.99

00:43:20.000 It's almost like being at war. 0.99

00:43:22.000 It's stressful, but, you know, you've got this role and there's this thing that you're just aiming for all the time.

00:43:27.000 And now...

00:43:29.000 It's gone. 0.99

00:43:30.000 Like, what the fuck are you going to do? 0.99

00:43:31.000 Who are you? 0.99

00:43:31.000 What it's all about, you know? 0.99

00:43:33.000 So it took me years to kind of, you know, come to peace with that.

00:43:39.000 But it wasn't about losing the muscles.

00:43:40.000 It was about losing my goal and my focus and my role in life, I think.

00:43:45.000 Yeah, for a lot of athletes, it's the intensity of life is all of a sudden reduced down to a mundane home.

00:43:52.000 Yeah, and you're going to become a normal guy now?

00:43:53.000 There's no highs and lows.

00:43:54.000 It's just mediums all the time. 0.99

00:43:58.000 But I turned it around because when I was doing bodybuilding, my life was very restrictive, like a fucking monk. 0.97

00:44:04.000 I just had this regime, and I didn't want to socialize. 0.97

00:44:07.000 I didn't want to do anything outside of that.

00:44:09.000 So...

00:44:10.000 After some time, I came like, hey man, so you can't do that anymore.

00:44:15.000 How about the thousand and one things you didn't do when you were doing that because you couldn't?

00:44:20.000 Now you can do all those things.

00:44:22.000 You can go where you want, not eat all day if you don't want to eat six meals a day.

00:44:27.000 You can do what you want.

00:44:29.000 I started looking into some other things I was interested in.

00:44:32.000 I've always been interested in wildlife, so I started going on a few safaris and things like that.

00:44:37.000 Slowly I realized, like, hey, there's a million and one things you can do in life.

00:44:44.000 I get over this.

00:44:45.000 So it's just a transitionary period.

00:44:46.000 Transitional period, yeah.

00:44:48.000 But I can absolutely see why many athletes struggle.

00:44:52.000 Frank Bruno, who was a world boxing champion from the UK. I know he had a really hard time.

00:44:58.000 Almost like he was a world champion when I was a Mr. Olympian.

00:45:01.000 We retired at the same time.

00:45:03.000 We both got divorced.

00:45:04.000 Everything falls apart, man.

00:45:07.000 And then you hopefully rebuild back to something else.

00:45:12.000 Yeah, it seems that very few athletes have a smooth process into retirement.

00:45:17.000 And fighters in particular, they always come back when they shouldn't.

00:45:20.000 Yeah, well, I know why they do that.

00:45:23.000 When I was a kid, I was always like, why is Ali coming back, man?

00:45:26.000 Like, just, you know, he's the greatest and now he's going to get beat by some guy because he's coming back.

00:45:31.000 But you miss the fucking adrenaline or whatever it is of that, you know, of that all your focus, all your soul, everything is going into that one point and like... 0.61

00:45:42.000 It's tough to replace, but you've got to know when it's time to step down, I think. 0.97

00:45:45.000 Now, when you did decide, did you have a plan?

00:45:48.000 Did you write out a plan like how to step down?

00:45:51.000 Because you wrote out a plan for the rest of your life.

00:45:53.000 No, because it was like...

00:45:54.000 New territory.

00:45:55.000 It was like that, you know?

00:45:56.000 It was like I didn't have a plan.

00:45:58.000 Right after the injury.

00:45:59.000 Yeah.

00:46:00.000 Vaguely, I had an idea in my mind that I would like to open more gyms when I finish bodybuilding.

00:46:07.000 Actually, that didn't happen, but I started my own nutrition company, which I'm still doing sports nutrition during sports nutrition.

00:46:15.000 So I put a lot of energy into that and different things and being able to experience things in life that I shut myself off with.

00:46:24.000 So that's how I dealt with it.

00:46:25.000 And now I feel great about it.

00:46:27.000 And I can look back and I can sit back and say, you know what?

00:46:32.000 I couldn't have given any more to that thing.

00:46:34.000 I couldn't have given any more.

00:46:36.000 So there's no regrets.

00:46:37.000 Like a lot of athletes...

00:46:38.000 You know, when you're young and you're there, maybe you don't really appreciate it so much. 0.97

00:46:42.000 And then when it's gone, you're like, shit, man, what if I'd have done this? 0.98

00:46:45.000 What if, what if, what if, what if? 1.00

00:46:47.000 You know, I don't have those what ifs, man.

00:46:49.000 I did 100% even too much to the point where I got injured.

00:46:52.000 So, you know, I'm happy with that.

00:46:56.000 I can put that to rest.

00:46:57.000 That's a great lesson.

00:46:58.000 That's a great lesson for young people coming up.

00:47:00.000 If you just do all the work.

00:47:03.000 When it's over, it's over.

00:47:04.000 Do what you can do, man.

00:47:05.000 Win or lose, you do what you can do, and then you have the self-satisfaction, the pride to look back and say, you know what? 0.95

00:47:10.000 I fucking give it everything I had. 0.83

00:47:12.000 And no regrets. 0.97

00:47:14.000 And that's the way I feel about it.

00:47:15.000 And I know there's a lot of my contemporaries that compete against me that don't really feel like that.

00:47:20.000 That's why a few of them are still, they're in their 50s and they're making comebacks.

00:47:23.000 That's one of the most horrible things to see someone who's lived a life of regret.

00:47:28.000 Yeah.

00:47:29.000 Or even, I don't like to see athletes coming back.

00:47:33.000 When they're not, as you remember them, at their best, and they're coming back and they're not so good, which I'm sorry, but inevitably at 50 years old is going to be the case.

00:47:42.000 Is there any bodybuilders doing that now at 50?

00:47:44.000 Yeah, Kevin Leverone, who came second to me, and Mr. Olympia, he made a comeback last year.

00:47:51.000 Really?

00:47:51.000 Yeah.

00:47:51.000 How did he look?

00:47:54.000 Well, it depends how I answer that question.

00:47:56.000 How did it look compared to previously?

00:47:59.000 Not good at all.

00:48:00.000 How did it look for a guy that's making a comeback at 50 years old?

00:48:03.000 Yeah, great.

00:48:04.000 But it's not a 50-year-old guy looking good contest.

00:48:08.000 It's Mr. Olympia.

00:48:09.000 It's the best in the world.

00:48:10.000 Right.

00:48:13.000 But if you just tried to make a comeback within a year, doesn't it take many, many years to get to that kind of shape?

00:48:18.000 There's a thing with bodybuilding.

00:48:23.000 You've got a thing called muscle memory.

00:48:25.000 So maybe it took me 10 years to get to be 260 pounds ripped.

00:48:31.000 But now that information is in my DNA. It's there.

00:48:35.000 So I could theoretically not train for 10 years, lose all that muscle, I'll probably get that back in 6 to 12 months.

00:48:44.000 Really?

00:48:44.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:48:45.000 Well, I've heard of muscle memory and I know that it's a thing, but has it been physically isolated?

00:48:51.000 What causes that or how it is in your DNA? I'm not really sure if they have or if they're interested enough to do the studies that's necessary, but those of us, you know, that are in the sport, we know it happens.

00:49:02.000 I mean, Arnold did it like 1974. I think Arnold was going to retire.

00:49:09.000 But then he got this Pumpin' Iron movie that everyone's familiar with.

00:49:14.000 So the 1975 Mr. Olympia, which the Pumpin' Iron runs around, he basically made a comeback for that just for the movie.

00:49:21.000 And previous to that, he did a movie called Stay Hungry with Sally Field and Jeff Bridges.

00:49:27.000 And I think he had to get down to like 200, 210 pounds because the director didn't want him to be too big for that.

00:49:33.000 So he came off the back of that, and then he just put all the sides back on for the Mr. Olympia for pumping iron.

00:49:38.000 Really?

00:49:38.000 So the director made him sort of emaciate himself?

00:49:41.000 Well, he still looked pretty big, I guess, for the average person.

00:49:44.000 Yeah.

00:49:44.000 Oh, man, that's nothing compared to how he looks.

00:49:47.000 Still looks big next to Jeff Bridges.

00:49:49.000 Yeah, I mean, he looks like a really big, fit guy that you'd see at the gym.

00:49:53.000 Look at Jeff Bridges.

00:49:55.000 The dude abides.

00:49:56.000 I like Jeff Bridges, man.

00:49:58.000 He's cool.

00:49:58.000 Me too.

00:49:58.000 I love that guy.

00:50:00.000 Still around, man.

00:50:01.000 Still banging out great movies.

00:50:03.000 Let me talk about how many great movies that guy's been in.

00:50:05.000 Absolutely.

00:50:06.000 What's the one where he's a country singer?

00:50:08.000 That was great.

00:50:10.000 Yeah, that was recent. 0.99

00:50:12.000 God damn it. 0.99

00:50:13.000 I saw that. 1.00

00:50:14.000 That was a good movie.

00:50:15.000 He's a good actor.

00:50:18.000 He's good at choosing roles.

00:50:20.000 So when a guy does get down to something like that, is it a matter of taking less steroids, working out less, like your body just naturally starts to shrink?

00:50:29.000 Well, if you're taking steroids and you stop, then you're going to lose a lot of weight pretty quick.

00:50:34.000 Right.

00:50:35.000 Just don't lift weights.

00:50:37.000 Play tennis, do swimming, do something else, and your muscle mass is going to go down.

00:50:42.000 So I'm guessing that's what it is.

00:50:43.000 Now, when you first started bodybuilding, how long did it take before you did take something?

00:50:49.000 After about 18 months, I decided I want to do a contest.

00:50:52.000 And I knew the guys in the contest were taking stuff, so I just want to be on a level playing field with them.

00:50:58.000 So, like two months before my first contest, I did that.

00:51:01.000 Which take?

00:51:03.000 A little bit of D-ball.

00:51:05.000 20 milligrams of D-ball a day.

00:51:07.000 That was the first thing I ever had.

00:51:09.000 And then, nearer to the contest, I switched to some anivar and primobolin.

00:51:15.000 But, I mean, 20 milligrams a day is like fitness chicks take that now. 1.00

00:51:21.000 Do they really?

00:51:22.000 They do.

00:51:22.000 Fitness chicks do take steroids, right?

00:51:25.000 I mean, it's pretty common.

00:51:26.000 100%.

00:51:27.000 100%.

00:51:27.000 Even bikini chicks.

00:51:29.000 Really?

00:51:30.000 Because they want to look harder.

00:51:32.000 They want to look leaner. 0.99

00:51:33.000 You know, I get girls that are fucking strippers and all kind of chicks asking me, Oh, I want to take this Winstroll stuff. 1.00

00:51:42.000 You know anything about that? 0.99

00:51:43.000 I'm like, I do.

00:51:45.000 Do you?

00:51:47.000 Oh, the guy just told me it's going to make me leaner and everything.

00:51:49.000 I said, alright, let me explain what this is.

00:51:51.000 This is an anabolic steroid.

00:51:53.000 An anabolic steroid is a derivative of testosterone, which is a male hormone.

00:51:57.000 So what they try to do is minimize the androgenic part of the testosterone, the male-like, and so you're left with more of the anabolic, the building part.

00:52:08.000 But they can't completely minimize the androgenic part.

00:52:12.000 So even though stuff like Winstroll and Anavar is less androgenic than testosterone, it's still derived from a male hormone.

00:52:18.000 And if you take enough, you're still going to get the male side effects, which is pretty common in women's bodybuilding and fitness and so on. 0.64

00:52:26.000 It's common in athletics across the board.

00:52:29.000 We see it in MMA. We see it in women in MMA as well. 1.00

00:52:32.000 Look, man, if you're a competitive sport, a competitive athlete, you're going to do whatever you can do to win.

00:52:40.000 There was a study once done by a guy called Dr. Goldman, and it's called Goldman's Dilemma.

00:52:47.000 And he asked a bunch of athletes, including, I think, Olympic-level athletes, So, if I could give you a pill that would guarantee you would win the gold medal or whatever the equivalent is in your sport, but you would die at like 40, 45,

00:53:03.000 would you take it?

00:53:05.000 The vast majority of people said yes, they would take it.

00:53:09.000 That's the mentality you're dealing with.

00:53:11.000 Especially when you're young, man.

00:53:12.000 You feel indestructible, like nothing's gonna, you know?

00:53:15.000 Yeah.

00:53:16.000 It doesn't seem real, too, right?

00:53:18.000 It's like global warming will one day make the seas rise. 0.99

00:53:20.000 Yeah, but not right now, so fire up the fucking Buick. 1.00

00:53:24.000 Yeah, right now I won a fucking gold medal. 0.99

00:53:25.000 That's all I'm interested in. 0.99

00:53:26.000 I'm not even...

00:53:27.000 That doesn't even exist. 0.99

00:53:28.000 I'm here now, I won the fucking gold medal. 0.99

00:53:30.000 And this is the mentality of the, you know, the successful athlete. 0.99

00:53:34.000 Mm-hmm.

00:53:36.000 Maybe it applies to everything. 1.00

00:53:38.000 Maybe it's a fucking businessman. 1.00

00:53:39.000 If you said, you take this pill and you'll fucking make billions, would you do it? 1.00

00:53:43.000 A driven businessman would probably say, fuck yeah, I'll do it. 1.00

00:53:46.000 If it's a solution, then it'll allow you to win. 0.99

00:53:48.000 Yeah.

00:53:49.000 So that's what I did.

00:53:51.000 I consider that I did a calculated risk as far as taking steroids with the possible negative health effects.

00:54:00.000 Which I tried to monitor.

00:54:02.000 I had doctors, you know, blood tests and everything like that.

00:54:04.000 So if something really was going wrong, at least I'd have to, you know...

00:54:07.000 Did you ever find anything wrong?

00:54:09.000 No.

00:54:09.000 Some things were a little bit out of the normal range when I was heavy.

00:54:13.000 My blood pressure went up.

00:54:15.000 Like, not sky high, but it was, you know, 140 over 90, 150 over 90. So it was edging up there, but I was 300 pounds.

00:54:22.000 So, you know, and...

00:54:26.000 A couple of the other readings were a little bit, but nothing of great concern, you know?

00:54:31.000 But that doesn't mean to say that they're harmless because it's over a period of time, right?

00:54:37.000 And I equate it to smoking, you know?

00:54:41.000 If you smoke for 10 years and then you stop, apparently after 15 or 20 years you're back to like, you know, a guy that didn't smoke.

00:54:49.000 If you smoke for 20 years, 25 years, then maybe it's a different story.

00:54:54.000 Have you ever seen Chris Bell's documentary Bigger, Stronger, Faster?

00:54:57.000 I haven't, no.

00:54:58.000 I think I'm due to speak with the brothers, right?

00:55:01.000 Yes, Chris and Mark.

00:55:02.000 I think I'll be going on their podcast at one point, but I actually haven't watched it, no.

00:55:06.000 Great guys.

00:55:07.000 Really great guys.

00:55:08.000 They've both been on here a couple times and very knowledgeable.

00:55:11.000 Chris just did a great documentary called Prescription Thugs, too, about the prescription drug industry and getting people hooked on these pain pills.

00:55:21.000 But in Bigger, Stronger, Faster, one of the things that was fascinating about it was...

00:55:26.000 He was going over, like, we were told that this is going to kill you.

00:55:29.000 We're told that all these negative health effects...

00:55:33.000 He's like, but where's the bodies?

00:55:34.000 Where are the bodies?

00:55:35.000 Like, when you think about all the things that kill people, obesity crushes human beings.

00:55:40.000 I mean, it is one of the number one causes of death in America, but yet it's looked at...

00:55:44.000 Obesity, smoking, alcohol, prescription drugs.

00:55:49.000 Oh, all those things.

00:55:50.000 All these things.

00:55:50.000 There have been some deaths in bodybuilding.

00:55:55.000 That may be attributed to steroids, and there's been a couple that are definitely attributed to diuretics, which is, you know, diuretics, you lose a lot of water, you can lose electrolytes, you can lose potassium and sodium, which regulate your heartbeat.

00:56:09.000 So then you're playing Russian roulette a little bit, and a couple of people played that game and lost, so...

00:56:13.000 Yeah, that's an interesting thing to point out because the diuretic aspect is critical.

00:56:17.000 When you see someone on stage and you see them shredded, those guys are basically like almost dead, right? 0.88

00:56:24.000 Well, you know, like probably the least healthiest fucking point you've been at all year is when you're looking like that on stage. 0.97

00:56:31.000 And you look amazing! 0.99

00:56:32.000 Yeah, you look amazing, but I can tell you, you know, you feel weak as a kitten.

00:56:36.000 You don't feel real good at that point, but...

00:56:38.000 You know, you do whatever you've got to do that's required.

00:56:43.000 1996, when I was competing, they had actually testing for diuretics because there was a couple of deaths and the people in charge started getting concerned, you know, this doesn't look good and that affects your revenue and all that stuff.

00:56:58.000 They attempted steroid testing in 1990, but it affected the guy's look so much.

00:57:09.000 Right.

00:57:29.000 Because the guy that's got more information and like the clearance times and all that stuff, they don't have to stop people from taking it.

00:57:35.000 They're just going to take it and try to avoid, get around the test.

00:57:37.000 And it's the same in all sports. 0.93

00:57:39.000 And I don't care if it's fucking running, riding, Tour de France, whatever it is, it's going on to some degree. 0.85

00:57:46.000 Well, what the UFC has done, and they've self-imposed this, is they've hired Jeff Nowitzki, the guy who went after Lance Armstrong, and he's the head of USADA. They just do random tests on people, and the punishments are terrible, like two-year suspension. 0.96

00:58:03.000 If you get popped first time for steroids, I think it's a two-year suspension now for the UFC. Again, this is self-imposed.

00:58:10.000 This is not even the Nevada State Athletic Commission or any other athletic commissions in positions, and they've radically cut back.

00:58:29.000 It pisses out.

00:58:32.000 Yeah.

00:58:47.000 They change the way they look.

00:58:49.000 There's so many pre- and post-USADA pictures of people that post them on Twitter and Facebook and stuff like that.

00:58:56.000 In these groups where they talk about fights.

00:58:58.000 Which athletes have been hurt most by USADA? It's interesting.

00:59:04.000 Would it be more of the bigger guys or it's across the board?

00:59:07.000 It's bigger, guys, but it's also EPO. A lot of guys have been popped for EPO. They've been popped for, what does that other say?

00:59:15.000 Melodonin?

00:59:15.000 There's another one.

00:59:16.000 God damn it. 0.99

00:59:17.000 I'm trying to remember it. 0.99

00:59:18.000 But it's a similar thing to EPO. EPO, increase your red blood cell count, so you get more oxygen, which would give you more endurance.

00:59:24.000 Yeah.

00:59:25.000 I mean, that's giant in the sport.

00:59:27.000 I mean, physical size is not really that much of a consideration.

00:59:31.000 There's very few guys that are big and muscular.

00:59:34.000 Well, here's the thing with steroids.

00:59:36.000 I mean, they can give you muscle size, but it depends on your training, the kind of training you're doing.

00:59:41.000 Right.

00:59:41.000 So it can also help with your endurance.

00:59:44.000 So just because a guy is not big and muscular doesn't mean there's not benefit from steroids.

00:59:49.000 You get runners and cyclists.

00:59:51.000 Yeah.

00:59:52.000 The whole thing with Lance Armstrong is like, you know, he was on a pedestal and then he's demonized and he's down here.

01:00:00.000 Was he the only guy using a bit of testosterone or, you know?

01:00:04.000 No, he was a...

01:00:05.000 You know, Bill Burr, who's a good friend of mine, a stand-up comedian, had a hilarious bit about it. 0.84

01:00:09.000 And he's like, our psychopath was better than your psychopath. 0.74

01:00:12.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:00:13.000 You got a dirty sport. 0.66

01:00:14.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:00:14.000 He's like, we just had one psycho that was more psycho than your psychos. 1.00

01:00:18.000 And he had testicular cancer, right? 0.99

01:00:21.000 Yeah.

01:00:21.000 So...

01:00:23.000 I'm assuming then you're not producing any testosterone.

01:00:26.000 So you're going to have to put it in from outside.

01:00:28.000 How much?

01:00:29.000 I don't know.

01:00:30.000 Well, they had it in...

01:00:31.000 They used to allow testosterone replacement therapy for fighters.

01:00:35.000 They don't allow that anymore because guys are abusing it. 1.00

01:00:38.000 And also there was questions of why they were losing testosterone in the first place.

01:00:43.000 And one of the thoughts was damage to pituitary gland because that's apparently a big factor with fighters.

01:00:49.000 Once they develop damage to the pituitary gland from head trauma...

01:00:53.000 They start decreasing the amount of testosterone their body produces.

01:00:56.000 And so the thought was put it back in.

01:00:58.000 But other doctors are saying, well, maybe you shouldn't be competing anymore.

01:01:02.000 Maybe put it back in for general health and wellness.

01:01:05.000 But you probably shouldn't be competing anymore if this is the way your body's responding to head trauma.

01:01:10.000 Yeah, and you shouldn't really need replacement testosterone until you're like...

01:01:15.000 40 or thereabouts, you know, because you should be producing still.

01:01:19.000 And there's ways to up it, right?

01:01:21.000 Yeah, there's natural supplements to up it.

01:01:25.000 Diaspartic acid is one.

01:01:27.000 What is diaspartic acid?

01:01:28.000 Diaspartic acid is a compound.

01:01:31.000 I think it's from amino acids.

01:01:33.000 But anyway, they've done studies on it that shows that it can raise your own natural testosterone.

01:01:37.000 Some herbs, tribulus terrestris, also has some...

01:01:43.000 You know, some studies to back that up.

01:01:45.000 Also exercise, right?

01:01:46.000 Like high-intensity exercise, sprints, certain kinds of squats and deadlifts.

01:01:50.000 Absolutely.

01:01:50.000 How much is going to make a difference, I don't really know.

01:01:53.000 But yeah, heavy exercise would raise your testosterone over a normal baseline.

01:01:57.000 But once you get to a certain age, it starts declining in any case, you know. 0.99

01:02:01.000 Now, when you started taking stuff and you started off with D-ball, what, like, at the height, what was the craziest amount of shit you were taking?

01:02:12.000 The most stuff I took was in the off-season when I was training real heavy, trying to build size, because I had a regime that I used to get ready for contests, and I was always known for really coming in shape. 0.75

01:02:26.000 So I didn't use so much stuff getting ready for a contest.

01:02:30.000 I used more in the off-season.

01:02:32.000 Like a thousand milligrams of testosterone a week.

01:02:36.000 Some decadarabalin, maybe 500 milligrams.

01:02:39.000 And D-ball, maybe 40, 50 milligrams is average.

01:02:42.000 And growth hormone in the off-season. 1.00

01:02:44.000 That's a lot of shit. 0.99

01:02:46.000 It's probably about 30% of what guys are taking now. 1.00

01:02:50.000 God, really?

01:02:51.000 Yeah.

01:02:51.000 30%?

01:02:52.000 I think so, based on what people are telling me.

01:02:55.000 I mean, I have people come to train with me that...

01:02:59.000 Haven't even done a competition, let alone a Mr. Olympia, and their stack is more than that.

01:03:04.000 Wow.

01:03:05.000 Because they found it on the internet. 1.00

01:03:06.000 I'm like, what the fuck? 0.99

01:03:08.000 You know, why? 0.99

01:03:09.000 I just saw it on the internet somewhere.

01:03:12.000 Somewhere?

01:03:13.000 Yeah.

01:03:14.000 I mean, you go on the internet and have a look for Dorian Yates' stack.

01:03:18.000 I mean, I've been on there, and I'm like, first of all, 50% of this stuff, I don't even know what it is, right?

01:03:25.000 So I don't even know what it is.

01:03:26.000 And the rest of the stuff that I do recognize, like if you take this, you're going to get real health problems.

01:03:32.000 Like insulin's an issue, right? 0.97

01:03:34.000 I mean, insulin, you take too much insulin, you fucking keel over in a coma. 0.96

01:03:38.000 I tried insulin the last couple of years I was competing. 0.98

01:03:42.000 Because a few guys started using it and so on.

01:03:45.000 And I don't feel that I benefited from it.

01:03:48.000 I got a bit bigger.

01:03:49.000 I got more bloated.

01:03:50.000 The conditioning was harder to get.

01:03:53.000 So for me, I didn't feel I got any benefit from it.

01:03:58.000 You can get bigger, but it's not the quality.

01:04:00.000 I was known for super hard, grainy quality, and I felt I was losing a little bit of that using insulin.

01:04:07.000 So that's my opinion.

01:04:09.000 I wouldn't recommend it.

01:04:10.000 I don't recommend it to people that I train with because it doesn't have any real benefits and it has risks.

01:04:16.000 So why?

01:04:17.000 That's fascinating, the quality.

01:04:19.000 What constitutes the quality of muscle that you're looking for?

01:04:23.000 Well, I think in my case, I was known for muscle density.

01:04:27.000 So you could have a 20-inch arm that's like... 0.99

01:04:31.000 Got good volume, or you could have a 20-inch arm that looks like a fucking block of steel. 0.98

01:04:36.000 So how do you get that look? 0.97

01:04:37.000 What's the difference?

01:04:38.000 I think the difference is in the training, that I train very heavy and primarily quite low reps compared to bodybuilders.

01:04:45.000 I was working in 6 to 8, mostly 6 to 8, a little bit higher on the legs, 10 to 12. But everything I did was like 6 to 8 reps, where most of the guys are doing 10 to 12, and they're relying more on pumping, just getting a lot of blood volume into the muscle rather than overloading it.

01:05:01.000 So I had a density and a powerful look to my physique that the other guys, when they stood next to me, they didn't have that.

01:05:08.000 And that was just from really heavy training, I think.

01:05:11.000 So you get the density of the muscle rather than just pumping it volume-wise.

01:05:14.000 How did you figure out how to make that number, like six to eight?

01:05:18.000 Like, why not three to five?

01:05:20.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:05:21.000 How did you arrive?

01:05:22.000 Just over many decades.

01:05:24.000 First of all, people in the gym, And also studies as well.

01:05:28.000 Most studies would say for muscle growth, you need to keep the muscle under tension from probably 40 to 60 seconds, which in most cases would be 8 to 12 reps.

01:05:37.000 So I went a bit lower, like 6 to 8. That worked really well for me, but not on legs.

01:05:43.000 I went higher, 10 to 12 on the legs.

01:05:45.000 So just a bit of trial and error.

01:05:47.000 We know...

01:05:50.000 The lower reps will give you more strength and more power without the hypertrophy or the growth of the muscle.

01:05:57.000 So that's ideal for fighters.

01:06:00.000 I work with a few fighters in the UK and I try to explain this to them.

01:06:03.000 And it's hard for them to grasp because they think, I'm in the ring, I'm doing a lot of, you know?

01:06:07.000 Right.

01:06:08.000 I need endurance.

01:06:09.000 Yeah, you do.

01:06:09.000 But you're already doing that.

01:06:11.000 You're already doing that, right?

01:06:12.000 So if you want to get more power behind the punch...

01:06:16.000 But you don't want to build muscle because if you build muscle, you put on weight and then you go up a weight category.

01:06:21.000 So whatever more power you've got is going to be negated by the fact that you're fighting heavier guys.

01:06:26.000 So if you could stay the same weight but be more powerful and stronger without building muscle size, that would be the key.

01:06:32.000 And that's basically like powerlifting, low reps.

01:06:35.000 Like three reps and then have a really long rest.

01:06:38.000 Totally...

01:06:40.000 Foreign to MMA training.

01:06:41.000 Yeah.

01:06:42.000 You're gonna do it, boom, boom, boom, put it back and wait for three or four minutes.

01:06:45.000 Yeah, that's...

01:06:46.000 And do it again.

01:06:47.000 So you get that, bam, that power behind the punch, but without...

01:06:50.000 But a big rest.

01:06:51.000 But without increasing your muscle size.

01:06:54.000 Yeah.

01:06:54.000 Because that would, you know, if you get more power behind your punch, but you're going up a weight class, like, so what?

01:07:00.000 You know, you want to stay in the same weight, but be stronger.

01:07:03.000 That would be ideal for a fighter, so...

01:07:05.000 That seems counterintuitive for a lot of people, because they assume that bigger muscles mean more power.

01:07:09.000 Not necessarily.

01:07:10.000 I mean, bodybuilders have got bigger muscles than powerlifters, but powerlifters can lift more weight, at least for one or two reps, you know?

01:07:17.000 Yeah.

01:07:17.000 They're training for that power, boom.

01:07:19.000 Right.

01:07:20.000 Same thing with weightlifting.

01:07:21.000 It's a couple of reps, but very explosive and powerful.

01:07:24.000 That's hard for people to understand.

01:07:26.000 Kettlebells as well, like, throw it up, you know?

01:07:28.000 Power.

01:07:28.000 Well, that's the thing about kettlebell competitors.

01:07:30.000 They're not the biggest guys.

01:07:32.000 No, but they've got the internal musculature, the core that does a lot of the lifting, right?

01:07:38.000 Yeah.

01:07:38.000 You know?

01:07:39.000 If you're throwing a punch, I mean...

01:07:42.000 Who cares if you've got huge biceps?

01:07:44.000 It's like the internal, right?

01:07:46.000 It's from the toe all the way up through the core that's going to give you that power.

01:07:50.000 So you've got the guys like Fedor Emelianco.

01:07:53.000 I'm a huge fan of him.

01:07:55.000 I like his fighting style.

01:07:56.000 Me as well.

01:07:59.000 I mean, the guy looks like...

01:08:00.000 He's got arms like sticks. 0.77

01:08:02.000 He looks like he's got a pot belly. 1.00

01:08:04.000 He looks out of shape, but he fucking hits like a baseball bat, man. 0.99

01:08:08.000 Well, early in his career, he was bigger. 0.99

01:08:10.000 And he stopped training weights and started training only sports specific, which is...

01:08:16.000 It's a very controversial subject because if you talk to modern strength and conditioning coaches, they say it's absolutely the wrong approach.

01:08:22.000 And if Fedor continued to do strength and conditioning along with his martial arts training, he probably would have been able to prolong his career. 0.91

01:08:30.000 But who the fuck knows if that's true. 0.94

01:08:32.000 That seems like a very... 0.99

01:08:34.000 It's very hard to say what would have happened, but the modern approach seems to be you have to consider strength and conditioning as a huge part of any regiment.

01:08:47.000 In terms of, like, some of the elite athletes focus primarily on strength and conditioning in camp and not really on skill work because they feel like they already know how to fight.

01:08:57.000 It's already there in the brain.

01:08:58.000 Yeah.

01:08:58.000 Well, the conditioning, it's all about, I mean, as far as the conditioning of their motions and their ability to react is already there.

01:09:06.000 It's just a matter of building the ultimate gas tank and having the body that can perform and react as quickly and as fast and recover as fast as possible.

01:09:15.000 But the guys that hit the hardest, they're not necessarily the most muscular, though.

01:09:19.000 That's...

01:09:20.000 Some of them are. 0.99

01:09:21.000 Like Tyron Woodley, who's the UFC welterweight champion, he's one rare guy that kind of violates the normal build of professional MMA athletes, because he's fucking jacked. 0.92

01:09:33.000 But he's also very smart in his approach, whereas the consequences of engaging with him are extreme, because he has tremendous power. 0.78

01:09:44.000 So he can pace himself more.

01:09:48.000 Then like maybe some guys can because if you get in a firefight with him like one shot from him puts the lights out on you so he's got this ability to and he's developed a very Very interesting way of fighting where he just paces his bursts,

01:10:04.000 but his bursts are so terrifying like when he comes at you When he does sprint your way, he's so much faster than the average fighter and so much stronger that I guess in his mind, having all that muscle...

01:10:17.000 And he says it's actually natural.

01:10:19.000 You know, it's genetic.

01:10:21.000 My son is doing bodybuilding, and he doesn't have a particularly good diet.

01:10:27.000 He eats fried chicken and burgers and stuff, and he's shredded all the time. 0.99

01:10:31.000 Well, Tyron's son is jacked, and he's a little kid, and he's fucking... 0.99

01:10:35.000 Genetics are real. 1.00

01:10:36.000 There's no denying it.

01:10:37.000 It's like me when I started.

01:10:38.000 I had already a physique.

01:10:39.000 I had the abs.

01:10:40.000 I was lean.

01:10:41.000 I had the shape.

01:10:41.000 Everything was there.

01:10:43.000 Just had to get bigger.

01:10:45.000 So, yeah, genes are a big thing as far as your body type goes.

01:10:48.000 Is it insurmountable? 1.00

01:10:50.000 Like if a guy has shit genes, can he become like a jack? 1.00

01:10:53.000 No. 1.00

01:10:54.000 No.

01:10:55.000 Whoa.

01:10:56.000 It can get better.

01:10:57.000 Everyone can get better.

01:10:58.000 You can't be Lee Haney.

01:11:00.000 It's a rare individual that can get up on the Mr. Olympus stage.

01:11:05.000 There's probably hundreds of thousands of maybe millions of guys around the world that are in the gym training and maybe would like to compete.

01:11:14.000 But you know, can everybody be a UFC champion?

01:11:18.000 Can everybody be a basketball player?

01:11:20.000 No.

01:11:20.000 You need certain tools to start with, and then you've got to work on that and build that.

01:11:25.000 But at least for athletes and fighters in particular, you see guys who don't have impressive physiques that have incredible records and wind up doing really well with their skill and their tactics and their mindset and their understanding of when to engage and when not to engage.

01:11:39.000 With bodybuilding, though, it's very specific. 0.99

01:11:41.000 If you were born with sloped shoulders and small hands, you're fucked, right? 0.99

01:11:47.000 First of all, you need the frame. 1.00

01:11:49.000 The frame is the bone structure.

01:11:51.000 You can't do anything about that with your training, right?

01:11:54.000 You need a relatively wide shoulders.

01:11:57.000 To smaller hips. 0.81

01:11:58.000 You need the limbs to be proportional for bodybuilding.

01:12:03.000 Most of the successful guys, they tend to have a little bit longer legs compared to the torso because it just looks more aesthetic and makes the upper body look more like that.

01:12:11.000 So that's a bone structure.

01:12:12.000 You can't do anything about that.

01:12:14.000 You need to be born with a bone structure.

01:12:17.000 And then you've got muscle bellies. 1.00

01:12:20.000 So you've got the length of the muscle belly, which is genetic.

01:12:23.000 So if you've got a short bicep, you know, it used to tell you, I'll go to the gym and do preacher curls and that'll work, you know, you get long.

01:12:30.000 No.

01:12:31.000 Your muscle attachments are genetic.

01:12:33.000 So the longer your muscle bellies are, the more potential they have for volume.

01:12:38.000 So somebody that's got uniformly long muscle bellies, With a good frame and a good metabolism that tends to have naturally low body fat, then you're looking at somebody with potential to be a good competitive bodybuilder.

01:12:52.000 If they don't have all those things, Everyone can improve, but are you going to go win contests?

01:12:57.000 No. 0.99

01:12:58.000 Have you ever had a guy come to you and said, Dorian, I want to be a champion, and you're like, kid, you're fucked? 1.00

01:13:02.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:13:03.000 Damn. 1.00

01:13:04.000 I mean, why, you know? 1.00

01:13:05.000 Dorian Yates tells you you're fucked? 1.00

01:13:06.000 I don't say. 1.00

01:13:07.000 I try to be a little bit more subtle than that, you know?

01:13:11.000 But I'm like, you know...

01:13:16.000 I'm not here to bullshit anybody. 0.81

01:13:18.000 So if somebody asks me, I'm just going to tell them, yeah, you can improve, man, but you're just going to waste your time if you dream about being Mr. Olympia because, I don't want to be rude, but you just don't have what it takes.

01:13:29.000 Enjoy your training.

01:13:32.000 Be healthy.

01:13:33.000 Have fun in the gym.

01:13:35.000 But, yeah, forget about that, because it's not going to happen.

01:13:37.000 That's hard for people to hear, though.

01:13:39.000 Yeah, it is. 0.99

01:13:39.000 But it's better than me blowing smoke up their ass and saying, yeah. 0.99

01:13:42.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

01:13:43.000 You know, yeah, pay me.

01:13:44.000 And, yeah, you can have whatever you want, man.

01:13:47.000 Because somebody else is going to tell them that.

01:13:49.000 Have you ever seen a guy that you thought, man, I don't think so, and then he became a great bodybuilder?

01:13:54.000 No.

01:13:54.000 No?

01:13:55.000 Jesus Christ.

01:13:56.000 I can pretty much...

01:13:57.000 I mean, I've been around like...

01:13:59.000 You know, 35 years I've been in this game, so I can see people, and I've seen people probably with more potential than me.

01:14:08.000 Well, they don't get anywhere because they don't apply themselves.

01:14:12.000 You've got to have the physical stuff, but the glue, the thing that holds it all together is this.

01:14:19.000 I've seen freaks in the gym. 0.94

01:14:22.000 First of all, they're not that smart. 0.68

01:14:24.000 They don't really understand everything that's going on.

01:14:29.000 Usually, when somebody gets something real easy, They're not really that hungry.

01:14:35.000 So it's not necessarily always the guy with the most potential.

01:14:39.000 You can beat somebody with more potential by being smarter and working hard, but it's only two degrees, right?

01:14:47.000 Yeah, that's what I've always said. 0.92

01:14:48.000 You can get a guy who's the most dedicated, the most hungry, wants it the most, but when you're competing in basketball against Michael Jordan, you're kind of fucked because he wants it bad, too, and his genetics are just so superior. 0.89

01:15:02.000 There's just no way around it.

01:15:03.000 So you can't equalize that.

01:15:04.000 What are you going to do?

01:15:05.000 I saw this thing in England recently.

01:15:08.000 A guy came over from the States.

01:15:10.000 I don't know what his name was, but he was a good martial arts.

01:15:12.000 He was a kickboxer.

01:15:13.000 He was dedicated.

01:15:14.000 He was lean.

01:15:15.000 He was fit.

01:15:16.000 And he came over to fight this gypsy fighter over in England.

01:15:18.000 And this guy is, like, fat, out of shape.

01:15:21.000 He turned up, like, 45 minutes late for the fight because he'd been drunk the night before. 1.00

01:15:26.000 And he came in and he's just fat and he looked like shit. 1.00

01:15:29.000 And for, like, half an hour he was getting his ass kicked. 1.00

01:15:32.000 Well, then I think he... 0.99

01:15:33.000 Oh, he woke up, you know? 1.00

01:15:36.000 And he kicked the other guy's ass. 0.99

01:15:37.000 So this guy's been training, he's been dedicated, he's doing all this stuff. 1.00

01:15:41.000 And this guy, the night before, is getting drunk, but he's still coming and kicked the guy's ass. 0.99

01:15:46.000 So, you know, he probably just had more potential or he had a hard head or something. 0.99

01:15:50.000 I don't know.

01:15:50.000 There's a lot of factors involved in fighting.

01:15:52.000 I mean, his experience, his ability to take punishment, that some of it is just inherent.

01:15:57.000 Some people just have a wider face, stronger neck, they can take a shot better.

01:16:03.000 Yeah, these are all genetic characteristics, right?

01:16:06.000 The ability to absorb punches, it seems to be, or at least the variables seem to be a lot of it based on genetics.

01:16:13.000 Maybe you've got thicker bones or a shorter neck so your brain doesn't rattle as much or something.

01:16:17.000 Mark Hunt's a perfect example of that.

01:16:19.000 He's one of the best kickboxers of all time.

01:16:21.000 From New Zealand, right?

01:16:23.000 Tank of a man, you know, 5'10", 265 pounds, just built like a brick shithouse. 0.97

01:16:29.000 He had a bazooka to take him out. 0.74

01:16:30.000 Oh, dude, Crow Cop head kicked him, and he went down and got right back up. 1.00

01:16:34.000 It's like, nobody does it.

01:16:35.000 Crow Cop head kicks you. 0.97

01:16:36.000 That's a rat, you know? 0.94

01:16:38.000 And he's one of the few guys that survived it.

01:16:40.000 Well, I got my friend, a business partner from New Zealand.

01:16:43.000 I don't know if it's true, but he told me about Mark Hunt.

01:16:46.000 He's got a brother. 0.55

01:16:47.000 And the dad used to get him in the backyard there and just, like, knock the shit out of each other, you know, until they're, like, immune to getting hit.

01:16:55.000 Yeah. 0.70

01:16:56.000 I don't feel it anymore.

01:16:57.000 Well, he's been knocked out a few times recently, but, you know, he's in his 40s now.

01:17:01.000 But isn't it the case with fighters?

01:17:02.000 I don't know.

01:17:03.000 I noticed anyway.

01:17:04.000 You get a guy that, like, seems to be invincible, then he gets knocked out, and then after that he loses it.

01:17:09.000 Unquestionable.

01:17:10.000 Like Chuck Liddell, for instance.

01:17:11.000 Perfect example.

01:17:13.000 Yeah, unquestionable.

01:17:14.000 What is that?

01:17:15.000 Well, your brain does not want to take that kind of punishment anymore.

01:17:19.000 And what Chuck explained to me was that what it gets to is a point where your brain realizes that you're too tough and you're just going to absorb this punishment.

01:17:30.000 And it just shuts itself off.

01:17:32.000 It shuts down to protect itself.

01:17:34.000 And that's how he described it.

01:17:36.000 Now, obviously, that's not like a neuroscientist describing it.

01:17:39.000 There's also the connective tissue that keeps the brain connected and stable inside that.

01:17:44.000 It gets looser and more torn.

01:17:46.000 Have you ever seen connective tissue?

01:17:48.000 It's almost like a strong version of cotton candy, is what it looks like.

01:17:53.000 It's not...

01:17:54.000 It's not the toughest stuff in the world.

01:17:56.000 It's not supposed to take that many beatings.

01:18:00.000 In the wild, if you had that many beatings over a certain point, you'd be dead already.

01:18:04.000 Somebody would have already eaten you.

01:18:06.000 But MMA seems to be safer than boxing because you don't get hit as many times.

01:18:12.000 I mean, sort of.

01:18:14.000 Yeah, I would say probably overall safer.

01:18:17.000 But that's like saying motorcycle racing is safer than going downhill on a skateboard 60 miles an hour. 1.00

01:18:26.000 You're kind of fucked. 0.99

01:18:27.000 It's all relative, right? 1.00

01:18:28.000 Yeah, it's all...

01:18:29.000 The study that they did that just came out this week on football players would show they did...

01:18:36.000 Did a test on 111 football players, 110 had traumatic brain injuries.

01:18:43.000 I saw the movie, I can't remember what it's called now, with Will Smith.

01:18:47.000 The brain damage was causing the guys to be violent and all kind of stuff.

01:18:52.000 But they were saying that 87% of football players at all levels, high school, college, all levels have traumatic brain injury.

01:19:02.000 87%.

01:19:03.000 What are you going to do?

01:19:04.000 Stop football?

01:19:06.000 Stop MMA? That's the question.

01:19:08.000 Stop rock climbing?

01:19:10.000 Everything's got its risks, right?

01:19:13.000 Every sport.

01:19:14.000 Unless you do it moderately.

01:19:17.000 If you do things in moderation, they're good.

01:19:20.000 You'll never be Dorian Yates in moderation.

01:19:23.000 Competitive sports are not...

01:19:25.000 You know, they're not the healthiest thing in the world, right?

01:19:27.000 No.

01:19:28.000 I mean, you're dealing...

01:19:29.000 Well, I mean, I guess there's injuries involved in basketball, right?

01:19:33.000 But, you know, you're not going to lose your ability to think.

01:19:38.000 But even like endurance sports, marathon running, stuff like that, these guys die younger than...

01:19:45.000 Yeah.

01:20:03.000 I think what's going to come out in the future, and I've been doing this myself and getting great results, is very short interval training.

01:20:11.000 They've done studies with five-minute cardio workout, and it's getting the same results as an hour.

01:20:16.000 What?

01:20:16.000 Yeah.

01:20:17.000 I do ten minutes.

01:20:18.000 What?

01:20:20.000 90 seconds, like, you know, moderate.

01:20:23.000 Then I do a 30-second all-out sprint, whether it's on a cross trainer or a rower or kettlebells or whatever.

01:20:28.000 Get the heart rate right up, like 160 or something, and then go back down.

01:20:32.000 Do that a few times, like 10 or 12 minutes, and my resting heart rate...

01:20:36.000 It was pretty good for a bodybuilder.

01:20:38.000 I guess it was like 54, 55 in the morning.

01:20:41.000 I had it down to like low 40s, 45 in the morning.

01:20:44.000 Really?

01:20:44.000 Yeah.

01:20:45.000 And that's just from doing a couple of times a week a 10-minute workout.

01:20:48.000 And once a week I do a hard bike ride, but yeah, absolutely.

01:20:52.000 Because you want to get the benefits from the cardio exercise, which is a more efficient cardiovascular system, but you don't want the negatives of all that free radical.

01:21:01.000 So if you can get what you're looking for in a 10-minute workout, Why are you going to do an hour or two hours?

01:21:06.000 I don't know if it would, you know, be useful for a fighter because you're going to be in a ring for all that long, so you've got to condition yourself for that.

01:21:13.000 I'm just talking about for general health.

01:21:16.000 Wow!

01:21:17.000 I've never even heard of such a thing.

01:21:19.000 Yeah, interval training.

01:21:20.000 But ten minutes?

01:21:21.000 Ten minutes.

01:21:21.000 They've done studies on four and five minute workouts.

01:21:25.000 Wow!

01:21:26.000 So I think that's the future.

01:21:27.000 Where, you know, you want to get the benefit, but without the negatives.

01:21:31.000 Do you think you could run a marathon right now?

01:21:33.000 Could I run a marathon?

01:21:34.000 No.

01:21:35.000 No.

01:21:36.000 Running is not for me.

01:21:38.000 No.

01:21:38.000 Well, definitely not for you when you were in your prime.

01:21:41.000 Yeah, fast walking is good.

01:21:43.000 When you were in your prime, how much endurance did you have? 0.99

01:21:45.000 Like, if you had to do something, if you had to go up a flight of stairs, were you like, oh, fuck? 0.98

01:21:48.000 It wasn't too bad because I always did some cardio. 0.96

01:21:50.000 I did some cardio and stretching, so it was a bit unusual.

01:21:53.000 For bodybuilders, because that doesn't give you bigger muscles, but I saw the other benefits of it.

01:21:58.000 Because if I got more efficient cardio, like I'm training legs and back, stuff like that, that's a huge amount of oxygen.

01:22:05.000 You go to failure on squats or leg presses.

01:22:08.000 That's a huge amount of oxygen.

01:22:09.000 So for me to recover from that, I needed a bit of cardio.

01:22:13.000 So I was doing three or four times a week in off-season every day, getting ready for a contest.

01:22:17.000 But it wasn't very intense.

01:22:19.000 It was more like moderate.

01:22:20.000 I did fast walking for an hour or do stationary bike for 45 minutes, sometimes twice a day.

01:22:26.000 So I was doing quite a lot of cardio work.

01:22:27.000 Getting ready for a contest rather than starving myself.

01:22:30.000 Oh, I see.

01:22:31.000 You know, I was bringing the calories down a little bit and bringing the activity up a little bit.

01:22:34.000 So it was a bit of both, a bit of calorie restriction, a bit of more activity, more calorie burning.

01:22:40.000 Now, when you're doing calorie restriction, but you also have to keep all that mass, how did you...

01:22:45.000 Contradictory goals.

01:22:47.000 Yeah.

01:22:49.000 You know, training we can debate because I train with some MMA guys in England.

01:22:54.000 A bit of jujitsu, but mainly conditioning stuff. 0.98

01:22:57.000 And it's fucking hard, man. 0.97

01:22:59.000 It's hard training, right? 0.99

01:23:01.000 It's a super hard cardio and then someone's trying to punch you in the face at the same time.

01:23:05.000 That's hard.

01:23:05.000 So we can debate about the training, which sport is harder, yeah?

01:23:08.000 Because I've done a little bit of both.

01:23:12.000 But what's harder in bodybuilding is when you leave the gym, it's still with you.

01:23:16.000 And when you're getting ready for a contest, you're going to do more training and you're going to eat less.

01:23:22.000 So most sports, you can go train hard and then you can go home and eat.

01:23:25.000 With bodybuilding, you know, two months before a contest, you're hungry all the time.

01:23:31.000 Because you're trying to lose...

01:23:32.000 You're trying to lose slowly, lose the body fat or maintain the muscle.

01:23:36.000 If you're trying to lose weight too quickly, your body will preferentially burn the muscle because it's like...

01:23:41.000 Body fat is an emergency store, right?

01:23:44.000 Your body doesn't want to give it up, so you've got to coax it out slowly, you know?

01:23:49.000 But yeah, you're going to be hungry and you're going to be tired for a couple of months going for a contest.

01:23:54.000 That doesn't sound like fun.

01:23:55.000 It's not fun, man.

01:23:57.000 It's a constant mental battle as well.

01:24:00.000 Because your body's telling you to eat.

01:24:02.000 You've got to eat.

01:24:03.000 You've got to eat.

01:24:03.000 And at night you can't sleep properly because...

01:24:06.000 You go to sleep a little bit, and then your body's internal alarm clock will wake you up. 0.99

01:24:10.000 Hey, you're fucking starving. 0.99

01:24:11.000 Go eat. 0.99

01:24:12.000 And you're like, no, I ain't doing that.

01:24:14.000 But how do you keep your body from absorbing all that muscle?

01:24:16.000 Because you're carrying so much muscle.

01:24:18.000 Is there a drug that you can take that keeps the mass?

01:24:21.000 Well, you're taking steroids, which are anabolic and anti-catabolic.

01:24:26.000 So that's going to stop you from losing muscle.

01:24:29.000 However...

01:24:30.000 You know, if you restrict your calories too much or, you know, too much exercise and none of it, you're still going to burn muscle.

01:24:36.000 It's just going to lower the chances of it.

01:24:38.000 So, you know, you've got to stack everything in your favor.

01:24:42.000 You're taking steroids, just, you know, try to keep the muscle mass and stop losing it.

01:24:46.000 But if you restrict too much, you're still going to lose it.

01:24:49.000 So you need to, like, one or two pounds a week, very slowly.

01:24:54.000 Keep your body from going into shock.

01:24:56.000 Yeah, that's where a lot of fighters...

01:24:58.000 Go wrong because they starve themselves for a couple of weeks.

01:25:00.000 They lose muscle, they lose strength, they lose glycogen from the muscle, and they're weaker.

01:25:05.000 Yeah, they fight very weak.

01:25:07.000 That's a huge issue.

01:25:08.000 And a lot of fighters are choosing to go up a weight class and they're having big success.

01:25:12.000 Donald Cerrone is a great example of that.

01:25:14.000 There's been quite a few fighters.

01:25:16.000 Or you lose that weight very slowly so it's not depleting you down.

01:25:20.000 What kind of diet were you on when you were competing?

01:25:23.000 High protein, pretty high protein.

01:25:26.000 Off season, there's still a lot of carbs, medium fat, and then getting ready for a contest, the carbs slowly come down.

01:25:33.000 But I was a big guy, 270, 280. I was still eating probably 3,500 calories a day, which is probably more than I eat now.

01:25:44.000 But when you're that big, you're starving.

01:25:47.000 What do you weigh now?

01:25:48.000 I weigh now 230, something like that.

01:25:51.000 So, yeah, all that extra mass needed to be fueled.

01:25:54.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:25:55.000 Now, when you were in, say, like, out of contest, now, what your goals were to put on muscle that you would eventually, like, you would get bigger and bigger every year.

01:26:06.000 That was one of the things about you.

01:26:07.000 I would try to, yeah, and then maybe there's certain areas where you want to, like, work on.

01:26:11.000 At some point, that's a bit behind, so you put more focus on that and a bit less on something else to try and keep the balance.

01:26:18.000 It might sound strange now, but when I first competed, my first contest, I lost to a guy called Mohammed Ben Aziza, and his back was just like freaky thick. 0.97

01:26:30.000 It was like 3D coming out, and that just stuck in my mind. 0.98

01:26:33.000 I'm like, fuck that, I gotta... 0.98

01:26:34.000 I put a picture of him on my fridge at home. 0.99

01:26:37.000 I put a picture in the gym.

01:26:40.000 Funny enough, later on in my career I became known for the guy with the best back.

01:26:46.000 I was inspired by other people to do that.

01:26:50.000 I worked on the back for a couple of years.

01:26:52.000 What is the difference between the way you approach nutrition when you were competing versus the way people do it today?

01:26:59.000 Because so much changes in nutrition.

01:27:01.000 I mean, it seems like every five or six years, like, you know, oh, no, low fat's out, now you go high fat.

01:27:07.000 You know, high carbs are out, now you go low carbs.

01:27:09.000 And it could change back and forth again.

01:27:11.000 I think the 70s, like Arnold area, Frank Zane, they go more low carbs, getting ready for a contest.

01:27:19.000 But then you lose size more quickly.

01:27:22.000 Why do you lose size more quickly that way?

01:27:25.000 Because you get catabolic, you haven't got the energy, so your body can use the amino acid from muscle for energy, so there's a balance there.

01:27:32.000 And also you lose the glycogen storage.

01:27:34.000 Your muscle is 70% water, and the water holds carbohydrates in the muscle, glycogen, so you lose that as well, so you lose that.

01:27:44.000 A bit of volume.

01:27:44.000 When you lose the glycogen, you lose the water, so you shrink down a little bit.

01:27:49.000 So my approach was higher carbohydrates.

01:27:53.000 Especially in the off-season, getting ready for a contest to cut them down, but not zero.

01:27:58.000 And fairly low fat.

01:28:01.000 I think people now realize that fat's more important and there's probably more fat in the diet than there was back then, which I think is healthy. 0.99

01:28:11.000 Fats have just got a bad rap and it's bullshit, you know? 0.86

01:28:15.000 Well, we've talked about that several times in the podcast, but there was a New York Times article recently about how the sugar industry paid off scientists to fake results. 0.99

01:28:24.000 And that was done in the, I guess, the 50s or the 60s.

01:28:27.000 And that's haunted people to this day.

01:28:28.000 They think that fats are bad for you.

01:28:30.000 I think it was essential.

01:28:33.000 I may be wrong with the organization, but I think it was World Health Organization.

01:28:37.000 They basically submitted a study that showed how bad sugar was.

01:28:43.000 And some department of the US government, which is getting a lot of money from the sugar lobby, basically said, I think you want to reconsider this.

01:28:55.000 So that's where the whole fats are bad, low fat came from.

01:29:00.000 They knew back then how bad sugar is.

01:29:03.000 So I found it amusing when I first came to the States in 1990. Got all these low fat products.

01:29:10.000 I call my friends at home. 1.00

01:29:11.000 I'll be how fucked up this is, man. 1.00

01:29:13.000 They got low-fat muffins. 1.00

01:29:15.000 Of course they're fucking low-fat. 0.99

01:29:16.000 They're full of sugar, though. 0.99

01:29:18.000 Yeah, it's weird, right?

01:29:20.000 Low-fat, low-fat yogurt, low-fat muffins. 0.98

01:29:22.000 It's fucking full of sugar. 0.99

01:29:23.000 It's the worst thing you could have. 1.00

01:29:25.000 So people thought they were being healthy, but they were being misled.

01:29:28.000 And it makes you fat.

01:29:29.000 Yeah, nothing wrong with fats as long as they're natural. 0.99

01:29:32.000 If you get the fats in baked goods and all this shit, that's not good.

01:29:37.000 But natural fats in animal products and coconuts and all that stuff, it's great. 0.97

01:29:43.000 Now, what would you use for carbohydrates?

01:29:46.000 Did you have a preferred method or did you vary it?

01:29:49.000 Complex stuff like oatmeal was a big thing.

01:29:51.000 I use oatmeal, brown rice, sweet potatoes and some fruit and fibrous vegetables.

01:29:57.000 Those are the main things that I use.

01:29:58.000 Nothing fancy, you know?

01:30:00.000 Did you mix your portions up in like little Tupperware boxes or something like that so that you could know exactly what to eat?

01:30:06.000 I used to weigh my food like pretty much all the time.

01:30:09.000 I didn't eat in restaurants very rarely and yeah, I used to pack them up in boxes because You know, you've got to have it all the time, right?

01:30:18.000 Yeah.

01:30:18.000 So that was one of the things I didn't miss, man.

01:30:20.000 I'm so relieved. 0.98

01:30:21.000 I don't carry any fucking plastic boxes around with food in it. 0.97

01:30:24.000 I just go to a restaurant and eat whatever I want, you know? 0.98

01:30:27.000 And have an ice cream if you want to.

01:30:28.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:30:29.000 That must have been nice when you realized you could just eat.

01:30:33.000 Yeah.

01:30:35.000 I mean, off-season wasn't too bad because I was eating good food, but a lot of it.

01:30:38.000 But yeah, getting ready for a contest, I mean, that was the real mental test, you know?

01:30:44.000 Because your whole...

01:30:45.000 My body's telling you you've got to eat, man.

01:30:47.000 Even at night, as I said, you wake up, you've got to eat.

01:30:50.000 No, no, I'm not going to eat.

01:30:51.000 I'm going to watch MTV for half an hour.

01:30:52.000 I'll maybe fall back to sleep a little bit, hopefully.

01:30:57.000 So yeah, the diet thing, I don't miss that at all.

01:31:00.000 It was a tough mental challenge and I did it.

01:31:04.000 Whenever you get through a challenge, I think it makes you stronger.

01:31:07.000 No, I don't want to ever do that again.

01:31:09.000 Yeah, I can only imagine.

01:31:11.000 Now, when you give these seminars and you talk to these young bodybuilders that are coming up, how do you...

01:31:18.000 I mean, you kind of have sort of a holistic approach to life now.

01:31:22.000 You're about health and wellness.

01:31:24.000 But when you're coaching these kids or talking to these kids about how to be successful in competitive bodybuilding as a multiple-time Mr. Olympia, one of the greatest of all time, if not the greatest...

01:31:36.000 I mean, you can't have a holistic approach, can you?

01:31:40.000 You kind of have to be a savage.

01:31:41.000 No, they're coming to me for bodybuilding advice.

01:31:43.000 Right.

01:31:43.000 And I don't have the body now, necessarily, but I got all the information here that I can put across to people for the training, for the nutrition.

01:31:52.000 But it's goal-specific, you know?

01:31:54.000 You want to be a competitive bodybuilder?

01:31:56.000 This is what you've got to do.

01:31:57.000 I'm not a competitive bodybuilder now.

01:31:59.000 My diet and my training is geared toward what my goals are, which is functionality, health and well-being.

01:32:06.000 That's what I'm into now.

01:32:08.000 That's where I'm at.

01:32:08.000 I'm not a bodybuilder anymore.

01:32:10.000 I'm a body reducer, if anything.

01:32:14.000 I feel good, man. 0.98

01:32:16.000 I fucking got a suit from Hugo Boss. 0.98

01:32:18.000 A couple of months ago, off the rack, and this was like, so happy I could just buy a suit off the rack, you know? 1.00

01:32:26.000 Before, I had to have it made, and if I go for a fitting, go for another fitting, all that shit, man. 0.99

01:32:30.000 I'm sure if they looked at the measurements on paper, they were like, what the fuck? 0.99

01:32:33.000 What are you making a suit for? 0.99

01:32:34.000 What is this?

01:32:35.000 You know, it's like, this wide going down, what is this?

01:32:37.000 There's a wardrobe?

01:32:38.000 What is it?

01:32:39.000 You know?

01:32:40.000 So, yeah, I look on the other side of it.

01:32:42.000 You know, young guys coming up, maybe they think, that's strange, like, and ask me, don't you do look at the pictures back and think, wow, I look like that?

01:32:49.000 I'm like, no, I don't look at, I just look at that and I think, wow, that was fucking extreme and what I did and that's crazy and that's incredible, but...

01:32:59.000 Does it weird you out to look at pictures of yourself?

01:33:02.000 A little bit sometimes.

01:33:03.000 When I look at those black and white pictures...

01:33:04.000 If you've got any of those black and white pictures, man, that's just insane.

01:33:10.000 There it is.

01:33:11.000 Look at that.

01:33:13.000 That's insane, man.

01:33:15.000 You couldn't really fit any more muscle onto that frame, really.

01:33:19.000 You're not so...

01:33:21.000 I know I went to places and I did things to other people, you know, in the gym. 1.00

01:33:25.000 Look at your fucking forearms. 0.99

01:33:27.000 Well, there's a thing, forearms. 1.00

01:33:29.000 I never did any training for forearms.

01:33:32.000 All that was just from gripping the bar when I was doing back training, mainly, and some bicep training and stuff. 0.61

01:33:39.000 So I had 19-inch forearms and I didn't do a single fucking exercise for them apart from gripping onto stuff. 0.91

01:33:44.000 Look at that. 0.99

01:33:45.000 It's so ridiculous. 0.97

01:33:46.000 Well, that's a good picture, but it's not me. 0.97

01:33:49.000 Who is that?

01:33:50.000 I don't know.

01:33:52.000 How dare you, Jamie, pull up a non-Dorian. 1.00

01:33:55.000 Somebody put it on Google images.

01:33:58.000 Put up that one.

01:33:59.000 Keep going to your right.

01:34:00.000 No, no, no.

01:34:00.000 Down where you were?

01:34:01.000 Yeah, go to your right.

01:34:03.000 One more.

01:34:03.000 That one.

01:34:04.000 Bam.

01:34:04.000 Side tricep.

01:34:05.000 Jesus Christ.

01:34:06.000 That's from an onstage picture from Mr. Olympia.

01:34:10.000 So what you can see, if you look on the legs, You can see the thinness of the skin and the density of the muscle underneath.

01:34:17.000 There's no fat, there's no water between the skin layer and the muscle layer.

01:34:23.000 What percent of body fat did you get down to?

01:34:27.000 Well, I don't really know because I had skin fall calipers.

01:34:30.000 I used to do the skin fall calipers.

01:34:31.000 And they're not accurate.

01:34:32.000 They used to get down to like 3.5, probably like a month out.

01:34:36.000 But I know I got leaner after that, but they didn't really register because they're not that accurate after that point.

01:34:41.000 So I don't know.

01:34:43.000 Maybe 3%.

01:34:44.000 But nobody measures your body fat.

01:34:48.000 It's what you look like.

01:34:48.000 It's a visual thing.

01:34:49.000 So it's really what you look like in a mirror.

01:34:51.000 How did you know how much water to drink and when to back off?

01:34:57.000 Experience.

01:34:58.000 I didn't really... 1.00

01:34:59.000 Look at your fucking legs, dude. 1.00

01:35:01.000 I didn't restrict water intake until like maybe 24 hours before the contest. 1.00

01:35:06.000 Look at your right leg there.

01:35:08.000 That's preposterous.

01:35:09.000 Yeah, that's a huge medialis right over the knee there. 0.53

01:35:15.000 Yeah, that's a lot of sick work, man.

01:35:17.000 That's like...

01:35:20.000 I used to train legs pretty much once a week.

01:35:23.000 And for four or five days of every week, I had trouble sitting on the toilet.

01:35:29.000 I had trouble moving around.

01:35:31.000 I mean, if I didn't, I wouldn't be happy, man. 0.99

01:35:33.000 I had to feel that fucking pain. 1.00

01:35:34.000 Pain in the ass, pain in the leg, just to sit down. 1.00

01:35:38.000 But, hey, it's satisfying because you know you've fucking done some damage, right, if it's like that. 0.99

01:35:42.000 And the damage repairs itself. 0.95

01:35:44.000 To get slightly bigger and stronger.

01:35:47.000 Bodybuilding is just an adaptation to stress.

01:35:49.000 You know, you put a certain stress, your body's gonna adapt to it. 0.99

01:35:52.000 Fuck, I need to get bigger and stronger so I can handle this stress next time. 0.99

01:35:56.000 That's basically what it is. 1.00

01:35:58.000 So continually trying to stress yourself.

01:36:00.000 Like anything, like you wanna get better cardio, you gotta stress your cardio system so it adapts.

01:36:05.000 Yeah, there's no other way, right, to get that big?

01:36:07.000 I mean, there's no shortcuts.

01:36:08.000 There's nothing you can do.

01:36:09.000 There's no easy route.

01:36:11.000 Well, I don't know.

01:36:12.000 It looks like guys are looking for the easy route now because I don't see them training.

01:36:16.000 That hard, but then you don't see the quality of the physiques.

01:36:19.000 The guys are big now, but you look at the quality, it's not the same.

01:36:21.000 It's not the same.

01:36:22.000 It's generally accepted in bodybuilding that the 90s was the peak of competitive physiques.

01:36:29.000 As far as the standard and the depth of the standard, there were like six to eight guys on that stage that were like really, like if you were off, you know, those places could change.

01:36:39.000 Now you've got one guy, Phil Heath, who's Mr. Olympia, and It's pretty, like, distance between him and the next few guys.

01:36:48.000 Now, what is it, though?

01:36:50.000 I mean, doesn't it open the door for a current modern-day Dorian Yates, like some super dedicated person?

01:36:57.000 I mean, physiologically, people can still do the same things that you did.

01:37:00.000 Yeah, but...

01:37:03.000 Things have changed since the 90s.

01:37:04.000 There's a lot more avenues that people could choose to go down as like doing a sport.

01:37:10.000 For instance, UFC didn't exist in the early 90s.

01:37:14.000 I remember watching the first show on...

01:37:16.000 I was in New York.

01:37:17.000 I watched it on TV. The very first one, you know, with...

01:37:20.000 Royce Gracie.

01:37:21.000 So you got MMA, you got CrossFit, and you got all these other competitions now in the bodybuilding arena that's not bodybuilding.

01:37:30.000 It's men's physique where they wear the board shorts and they're going to have the nice physique and abdominals, the kind of physique that most people aspire to have, I guess.

01:37:38.000 You've got classic bodybuilding.

01:37:40.000 So you've got a lot of different avenues.

01:37:42.000 And I think the interest in pure bodybuilding is a lot less.

01:37:46.000 I mean, in the 90s, everyone wanted to be a bodybuilder.

01:37:49.000 It was, like, hugely popular.

01:37:51.000 Yeah, what's interesting now, what is this, Jamie?

01:37:53.000 What are you pulling up here?

01:37:54.000 This is a Mr. Olympia from 1996. It's myself, Sean Ray in the middle, and that's Ronnie Coleman on the end who became an eight-time Mr. Olympia.

01:38:03.000 You guys are all jacked.

01:38:04.000 Also. 0.98

01:38:06.000 It's so hard to tell. 0.98

01:38:08.000 See, I'm like, I'm looking at this, I'm like, how the fuck do you pick? 0.93

01:38:11.000 I'll work it out for you. 0.73

01:38:12.000 The guy on that end is the best.

01:38:14.000 That one right there?

01:38:17.000 Well, it's also got to be hard for that tiny dude that's next to you, you know, because you're just so much bigger than him.

01:38:23.000 The tiny dude has always been unhappy because he got beaten by me, but the thing is, he had a great physique, just like Frank Zane had a great physique.

01:38:31.000 Right.

01:38:31.000 You know, if he was the same size as Arnold...

01:38:34.000 Maybe he would have beat him, but he wasn't the same size as Arnold, and the same goes for the gentleman up there, Mr. Sean Ray.

01:38:41.000 He had a great physique, but, you know, I was twice as big, so a big guy always beats a good little guy, right?

01:38:47.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:38:48.000 It's a crazy sport, man.

01:38:50.000 Now, what about the top guys today?

01:38:53.000 Like you said, Sean Heath is the number one guy today?

01:38:55.000 Phil Heath.

01:38:55.000 Phil Heath, I'm sorry.

01:38:56.000 Now, there's so many different avenues now, and a lot of people are going towards, like, the internet route.

01:39:03.000 Absolutely.

01:39:03.000 Because you can make a lot of money as, like, an internet...

01:39:07.000 Like, famous person for being a bodybuilder.

01:39:10.000 Then you're selling things and selling...

01:39:13.000 There he is, Phil Heath.

01:39:15.000 Pretty jacked.

01:39:16.000 Yep. 0.82

01:39:17.000 He's pretty jacked.

01:39:18.000 Phil Heath is, you know...

01:39:19.000 Giant.

01:39:20.000 He's not very wide in the shoulders.

01:39:22.000 Jesus Christ.

01:39:23.000 That's his weak point, but he's got huge, long muscle bellies on most of his body.

01:39:30.000 His pecs are not great, but the rest, you know...

01:39:34.000 The rest is, he doesn't really have any weak points, so that's why he's ahead of everybody else.

01:39:40.000 And you just think there's just less people doing it now?

01:39:42.000 There's less people going into competitive bodybuilding because there's a lot more avenues, and I think it's less popular now because it's almost like peaked out with myself and running and gone down a little bit.

01:39:54.000 It's like, how do you surpass, it got to a peak, and guys are trying to do that.

01:40:01.000 So, you know, they're trying to get big, and they're getting big, but they're getting big with a big waist and everything as well, so it's not the same look.

01:40:08.000 They don't have the same quality.

01:40:10.000 That's got to be super dangerous, isn't it?

01:40:11.000 When you see those guys with those enormous bloated bellies.

01:40:14.000 Yeah, there's a huge debate, and, like, what is that, you know?

01:40:17.000 What is it?

01:40:19.000 I don't know.

01:40:20.000 Is it internal organs that are growing?

01:40:22.000 Well, here's the thing.

01:40:22.000 Initially, that's what people thought, right?

01:40:26.000 And my waist started to get a little bloated around 96, 97, maybe 97, when I was using insulin, right?

01:40:35.000 It got a little bloated, a little distended.

01:40:37.000 But when I retired, it went down.

01:40:39.000 And I actually, in England, because I was always like, I'm taking steroids for this sport because I'm a professional.

01:40:45.000 When I'm not competing, I'm not going to take them, so...

01:40:47.000 Stopped taking them.

01:40:48.000 And also I took growth hormone and that was the thing.

01:40:52.000 A lot of people think growth hormone is going to increase the size of your internal organs and that's why guys are getting blow to waistline.

01:40:59.000 So I went and had a real, I mean a battery of tests where they actually measure all your internal organs.

01:41:05.000 And mine were all totally normal.

01:41:07.000 Apart from my heart was a bit bigger and stronger but that's just normal athletic heart.

01:41:12.000 So that wasn't the case.

01:41:14.000 So I... Perhaps it's fat that's building up around internal organs, or maybe it's just a lot of water in the intestines and it just bloats the waste out.

01:41:26.000 The short answer is I don't really know.

01:41:28.000 Who's that guy on the far left?

01:41:31.000 I don't know.

01:41:31.000 That's like a turtle shell.

01:41:34.000 Doesn't that look like a turtle shell?

01:41:35.000 Yeah.

01:41:35.000 Jesus Christ.

01:41:37.000 So that could be insulin.

01:41:38.000 That could be a variety of different things.

01:41:40.000 I think we've only seen this kind of thing happening since the guys are using insulin and IGF, which is insulin-like growth factor.

01:41:48.000 Wow.

01:41:50.000 So yeah, it's not a good look.

01:41:51.000 It's weird.

01:41:53.000 The turtle shell look is so weird.

01:41:55.000 It literally looks like someone...

01:41:56.000 It's like the guys have got big, but everywhere, systemic growth.

01:42:00.000 When you're training with weights, your major muscles are going to grow, but around the waist can thicken a little bit, but not that much.

01:42:07.000 Now, when you got off of everything, when you retired, what was the crash like?

01:42:13.000 Well, it wasn't something I was ready for.

01:42:15.000 I had a lot of things going on in my life.

01:42:17.000 I had a divorce.

01:42:18.000 I had somebody close to me pass away.

01:42:23.000 And I'm, you know, retiring.

01:42:25.000 So, you know, they say a death in the family or a divorce or retirement is like a major stressful event. 0.96

01:42:31.000 How about having all fucking three at the same time while you're coming down from steroids? 0.96

01:42:36.000 So, yeah, I definitely suffer from depression, anxiety. 0.99

01:42:41.000 I don't know what's going on.

01:42:42.000 Like, why do I feel like this?

01:42:43.000 I didn't even, like, now I know.

01:42:46.000 Right. 0.99

01:42:46.000 Because you fucking stop cold turkey. 0.99

01:42:48.000 Because I'm extreme. 1.00

01:42:49.000 I'm, like, I'm using them.

01:42:52.000 Because I'm doing this.

01:42:52.000 I'm stopped.

01:42:53.000 Now I'm stopped.

01:42:54.000 And I had no real help.

01:42:55.000 There was no real, like...

01:42:57.000 There's guys now, especially in the States, that, you know, they specialize in patients that are using steroids and all, you know, possible side effects and coming off and all that stuff.

01:43:06.000 I don't really have any of that.

01:43:07.000 So I just went cold turkey.

01:43:10.000 And after about two years, my normal testosterone was still not...

01:43:16.000 Coming into the normal so then I went on the replacement therapy which is like twice a month Testosterone placement and yeah, then I felt normal again So the the come down like you you're taking this What were you taking like right before you stopped like what was the do you remember?

01:43:33.000 Probably about a thousand milligrams a week total of testosterone a total of everything all kinds of stuff D ball everything a bit of testosterone a bit of Decker or something like that and then Then stop and then, you know...

01:43:47.000 Was it a gradual effect where your body's freaking out or was it like almost instantaneous?

01:43:53.000 It was probably after a few months I started like noticing I wasn't feeling too good.

01:43:59.000 Funnily enough, like...

01:44:01.000 Sex drive didn't totally disappear, and actually my daughter was conceived while I was not on anything.

01:44:08.000 I mean, they did trials with testosterone as a male contraceptive, and it was moderately effective, but not enough that they would market it.

01:44:16.000 So, yeah, probably like six to nine months I was really not feeling good at all.

01:44:24.000 And, you know, there's a lot of factors there.

01:44:26.000 If I was still taking steroids, but those things happened in my life, would I have felt as bad?

01:44:32.000 I don't know, probably not, but there's definitely a lot of traumatic stuff going on all at the same time.

01:44:36.000 Now, was there any conventional wisdom in the bodybuilding community of how to slowly cycle off or what the factors would be and how you could mitigate them?

01:44:47.000 Not at that time.

01:44:48.000 Now, 20 years on, I mean, you can go on the internet and find a ton of information, but not really then.

01:44:53.000 The only things guys were using was HTG, which helps to reduce your own testosterone.

01:44:59.000 Clomid.

01:45:00.000 Clomid and some natural stuff like that.

01:45:02.000 Right.

01:45:03.000 I remember going to an endocrinologist and asking him, like, you know, what should I do?

01:45:07.000 Should I do HTG and this and that?

01:45:09.000 And he's like, look at me.

01:45:10.000 And I said, you know what, Dorian?

01:45:13.000 You probably know more than me about this.

01:45:16.000 Thanks for that, man.

01:45:18.000 You know, he's talking about this situation with somebody coming off sterile.

01:45:21.000 He didn't have a clue, man.

01:45:22.000 Right, it's a different thing.

01:45:24.000 But now, yeah, you've got guys out there that have a whole...

01:45:27.000 I did a seminar up in...

01:45:30.000 In Canada, and Ben Johnson was there actually, the guy that...

01:45:34.000 Oh, the Olympic gold medalist?

01:45:34.000 Yeah.

01:45:35.000 Well, for a while he was.

01:45:36.000 He was there with his doctor and a couple of other doctors there, and one of the doctors told me that absolutely every guy that was in that 100 meters race tested positive.

01:45:46.000 Every guy. 0.94

01:45:47.000 But I think it was CBS was covering the contest, and they're like, we can't fucking, you know? 0.96

01:45:53.000 We can't have every guy. 0.98

01:45:55.000 We've got to choose one and make sure he's not American. 1.00

01:45:58.000 Really?

01:45:58.000 That's the story they told me.

01:46:00.000 I believe that, man.

01:46:01.000 There's definitely some real good evidence that they're all doing something.

01:46:05.000 The guy was just a scapegoat.

01:46:06.000 I feel bad for him. 0.99

01:46:07.000 He was like fucking demonized. 0.99

01:46:09.000 I remember all the newspapers. 0.99

01:46:11.000 I remember my son went to school, and they did a whole thing at school about, you know...

01:46:16.000 And he came home. 0.99

01:46:17.000 He must have fucking known his dad was jacked up like that. 0.99

01:46:21.000 Like the guy was cheating and he shouldn't do that and all this stuff they told him at school, you know? 0.99

01:46:26.000 Like, all right, son, I'll explain to you when you're a bit older.

01:46:29.000 And he also had no recourse.

01:46:31.000 Like Lance Armstrong today has a podcast.

01:46:33.000 He's done a bunch of interviews.

01:46:35.000 He can tell his story.

01:46:37.000 And now, you know, I mean, I think there was a period of time where Lance was demonized.

01:46:41.000 But over time, that is...

01:46:55.000 The real issue, I think, was deception and lawsuits and saying that he didn't do it and suing people who said he did.

01:47:19.000 Yeah, I remember that.

01:47:24.000 There was a car that got stopped in the border a few years ago in the Tour de France, going, you know, from France to somewhere, across the border anyway.

01:47:32.000 And it was a team car, right?

01:47:34.000 And they stopped the team car and it was just full of EPO and steroids and all this stuff, you know?

01:47:39.000 So it's...

01:47:40.000 You know, when was the first Tour de France?

01:47:43.000 I don't know, but I know one of the very early ones...

01:47:49.000 I think the guy that was winning, he died because he was using amphetamines.

01:47:52.000 Back in whatever, I don't know, 1910, 1920 or something like that.

01:47:56.000 So it's there.

01:47:59.000 It's part of the sport.

01:48:00.000 When I came into bodybuilding, it's not like I invented steroids.

01:48:04.000 They were already there.

01:48:05.000 My first Mr. Olympia was in 1965. Larry Scott was the Mr. Olympia in 1965. And he said he was using steroids then.

01:48:12.000 That was 1965. So when did they start being used?

01:48:15.000 I don't know, but for sure in the early 60s.

01:48:18.000 1965, they had steroids.

01:48:20.000 When did they invent steroids?

01:48:21.000 I believe...

01:48:23.000 Well, you had testosterone.

01:48:25.000 I mean, testosterone was used in the Second World War.

01:48:27.000 The Germans were using that with the SS soldiers.

01:48:31.000 So injectable testosterone was available then.

01:48:35.000 Steroids, which are a more refined version of testosterone, I think late 50s.

01:48:41.000 How is it more refined?

01:48:42.000 In what way?

01:48:43.000 So you've got testosterone as a male hormone.

01:48:45.000 So it's basically 50% androgenic, that's male-like characteristics, 50% anabolic, repair, build.

01:48:53.000 So they wanted to take this, and they wanted this part, the anabolic, and minimize the androgenic, because that's what gives you side effects, prostate growth and all that stuff.

01:49:04.000 So, they refined it so that those effects were minimized and more of the anabolic effect.

01:49:10.000 That was the idea.

01:49:11.000 And there's a guy called John Siegler, I think, because they found out the Eastern Bloc, they had their own stuff called Turinabol.

01:49:23.000 Siegler invented Dynable, and I don't know, don't quote me if I could be wrong, but I think it was about 58 or something like that.

01:49:29.000 He developed that for the U.S. weightlifting team.

01:49:32.000 1958?

01:49:32.000 I think it was 58, yeah.

01:49:34.000 But before that, you had testosterone, so who knows when people started using it.

01:49:39.000 But for sure, from the early 60s, it's been a part of bodybuilding.

01:49:43.000 Other sports.

01:49:44.000 And there used to be a disclaimer inside the steroid thing saying anabolic steroids do not increase athletic performance.

01:49:53.000 That's hilarious.

01:49:54.000 Right?

01:49:54.000 So they stated this.

01:49:56.000 And they also told guys, if you take this, your fucking balls are going to drop off. 1.00

01:50:00.000 You're going to fucking die. 1.00

01:50:01.000 You're going to get liver cancer. 1.00

01:50:03.000 So guys started using them. 0.99

01:50:06.000 And seeing that's all bullshit, right? 0.99

01:50:08.000 So then, they don't want to listen to anything these medical guys have got to say, because you were lying to us then, so you're going to be lying to us all the time. 0.98

01:50:15.000 Not necessarily so, yeah, because you do have chances of side effects, but...

01:50:20.000 You could say it's been greatly exaggerated in certain areas.

01:50:23.000 That's the problem with propaganda and deception, right? 0.99

01:50:26.000 Yeah, just tell people the fucking truth, man, and let them deal with it. 0.99

01:50:29.000 And that's what I do. 0.98

01:50:32.000 Because I saw all this stuff on the internet about what I'm supposedly doing, and I thought, young guys are going to read this, and maybe they're going to do it.

01:50:40.000 I did an article in a magazine, Muscular Development, and I said, here, this is what I did.

01:50:44.000 This is what I did for a contest, and these are my opinions.

01:50:50.000 My honest opinion is I don't think it's worth it unless you're competing and so on, but ultimately it's up to you.

01:50:56.000 Let me give you the information.

01:50:58.000 What you do is up to you. 0.99

01:50:59.000 And I don't know, 70% of the people are like, this is bullshit. 0.98

01:51:03.000 He must have talked much more than this, because I'm taking this. 0.99

01:51:06.000 Actually, I'm taking more than this, and I don't look like him. 1.00

01:51:09.000 Oh, tough shit, man. 0.99

01:51:10.000 You know? 1.00

01:51:11.000 Right.

01:51:12.000 I know a lot of guys that take more stuff than me that couldn't even compete in a contest.

01:51:17.000 They're not even good enough.

01:51:18.000 Is there a certain amount where it doesn't help you?

01:51:20.000 I think it gets to, like...

01:51:22.000 The cup is full.

01:51:23.000 Right.

01:51:24.000 You know?

01:51:25.000 It's just a matter of hard work.

01:51:26.000 The cup is full and more than that is not going to help you anymore.

01:51:29.000 It's just going to increase your chances of negative effects.

01:51:34.000 So when I was an amateur, my policy was always to take as little as possible to get the maximum effect.

01:51:40.000 And when that's not working, then you can go up a little bit more, you know?

01:51:44.000 But if you go day one and just...

01:51:46.000 Throwing everything in there, like, your body's gonna get used to that, where you're gonna go.

01:51:50.000 Where would you get steroids?

01:51:52.000 Where did I used to get them?

01:51:54.000 Yeah.

01:51:54.000 I mean, when I got them in the UK, it was just from the gym.

01:51:58.000 When I first started, I mean, people were bringing them in with trucks loads full from Europe, and there was not, you know, the authorities were not even aware of it or concerned about it or anything.

01:52:09.000 Now, the policy, at least in the UK and It depends on every country in Europe, but in the UK, it's perfectly legal to have steroids for your own use. 0.58

01:52:20.000 So you're going to be driving your car with a bunch of steroids on the fucking passenger seat and the police call you and they're like, what's this? 0.91

01:52:26.000 These are my steroids. 0.99

01:52:27.000 Okay.

01:52:29.000 For your own personal use, but selling, making money, and not paying your taxes, that's all they care about.

01:52:36.000 Well, that's, I think, how it should be.

01:52:38.000 You know, as long as there's education, as long as they're not lying.

01:52:40.000 But the problem is, when you lie to people about the effects of things, then they think you're lying to them about pain pills, you're lying about all sorts of other stuff that is actually deadly. 0.96

01:52:48.000 I think all fucking drugs should be legal.

01:52:52.000 And she put money into education and treatment and that's what they did in Portugal. 0.99

01:52:58.000 Massive results.

01:53:00.000 Right down.

01:53:00.000 Glenn Greenwald actually posted something today about that showing how it's changed over time and gotten actually better since they've made, especially in particular, marijuana.

01:53:11.000 Since they've made marijuana legal and started legalizing drugs in Portugal, they've had far less incidences of people having real issues.

01:53:21.000 Absolutely.

01:53:21.000 And the money, they're using it to re-educate people and get them out of that cycle and try and get them back into society, trying to get them a job and all that stuff.

01:53:30.000 You're just going to punish people for doing it. 0.96

01:53:32.000 How the fuck are they ever going to get better? 0.97

01:53:34.000 Well, there's also a problem with telling people not to do something and they want to do it. 0.98

01:53:38.000 Yeah, it seems more appealing, especially when you're young.

01:53:41.000 Oh, this is illegal.

01:53:42.000 Oh, yeah, let me do it, you know?

01:53:43.000 Like, here it is. 0.97

01:53:44.000 You can fucking have it if you want, but this is all the negative consequences, and what do you want to do? 0.98

01:53:50.000 People are choosing not to do it. 0.99

01:53:52.000 The bodybuilders that died, did any of them die from steroids, or did they die from complications involving a host of different issues?

01:54:02.000 Well, that's hard to say, because there's been quite a few bodybuilders, and Mainly male and mainly the bigger guys.

01:54:12.000 Well, there's been a couple of women that have died from heart attacks.

01:54:15.000 So, did steroids contribute to that, possibly?

01:54:19.000 What else were they doing?

01:54:21.000 They're individual cases.

01:54:22.000 Who knows?

01:54:23.000 Were they taking pain pills, anti-inflammatories?

01:54:28.000 Were they doing recreational drugs?

01:54:30.000 There's a lot of factors there.

01:54:33.000 But I think it would be probably fair to say that using steroids over a long term will probably increase your risk of heart disease, perhaps.

01:54:43.000 I think it causes some inflammation in the line in the arteries.

01:54:46.000 It can raise your blood pressure a little bit and so on.

01:54:50.000 So, yeah, I compare it to smoking, you know?

01:54:55.000 Probably not as bad, though.

01:54:57.000 Yeah, probably not as bad.

01:54:57.000 So, you know, the way I look at it is I smoked for 10 years and then I stopped.

01:55:00.000 So, now I smoke good stuff, you know?

01:55:04.000 Now, speaking of smoking good stuff, how did you find out about DMT? And how did you get involved?

01:55:10.000 Because I read something about you having these positive DMT experiences.

01:55:15.000 I'm like, wow, how strange is it reading about this massive bodybuilder now getting into psychedelic drugs?

01:55:23.000 And speaking openly about it.

01:55:24.000 Yeah, first time I did ayahuasca, I was in Brazil.

01:55:26.000 I met my wife who was outside.

01:55:29.000 She lived in Brazil, so we went out to the Amazon.

01:55:32.000 Well, this was like...

01:55:34.000 Ten years ago, you know?

01:55:35.000 So people weren't really, not like now, people know what ayahuasca is, because there's so much information out there, yourself talking about it, I'm talking about it, it's a ton of stuff on the internet.

01:55:45.000 It wasn't so much then, but I heard about it, and I heard about it, it's a life-changing experience and all that stuff.

01:55:51.000 So we were out in Brazil, and we got this guide, and I asked him for ayahuasca, and he was like, Bring me these two bottles of brown stuff.

01:55:59.000 I don't even know to this day if it was really ayahuasca.

01:56:01.000 But I just got really sick and didn't see any great revelations apart from I got this thing in my head to stop poisoning yourself.

01:56:09.000 But the night before I'd been out drinking, getting drunk and everything.

01:56:12.000 So, you know, that was my experience with that.

01:56:15.000 Then a friend of mine out here in California, actually, I knew about DMT. I used to live in Amsterdam and like I read the DMT spirit molecule and all that stuff.

01:56:24.000 So I knew about it, but I had no idea To get this stuff, where you can get it from and everything.

01:56:29.000 So a friend of mine got it, and that was my first experience of leaving the room, so to speak.

01:56:38.000 Leaving the planet.

01:56:39.000 Yeah.

01:56:40.000 And then since then I had some very positive ayahuasca experiences but with a shaman and doing properly and preparing like five days of restricted diet and no sex and all these kind of things you do to prepare and also afterwards.

01:56:57.000 So DMT is like blow the fucking doors off your perception and realize that this world we're in is like, you know, it's nothing. 0.94

01:57:05.000 It's just a little illusion, right? 0.99

01:57:06.000 There's so much more outside of it.

01:57:09.000 So there was that.

01:57:10.000 But with the DMT, I think it's like you've got a computer with like so much storage space and you've got...

01:57:18.000 It's like a thousand times more than you can retain.

01:57:21.000 So you see all this stuff and while you're there, you're like...

01:57:24.000 I know everything.

01:57:25.000 Oh, yes!

01:57:26.000 But when you come back, how much of it can you hold on to, you know?

01:57:31.000 So you've seen it, and that makes you look at everything differently.

01:57:34.000 But the ayahuasca is over hours, so I feel like from the ayahuasca, I actually benefited more.

01:57:40.000 It was like going through therapy or something, because it was much slower, and I could digest it, you know?

01:57:44.000 Right.

01:57:45.000 But doing it with the shaman, I did it with a guy called Guillermo Averello.

01:57:51.000 And he's one of the top guys in the world from Peru.

01:57:54.000 He comes to Spain a couple of times a year.

01:57:55.000 So I did it with him.

01:57:57.000 And yeah, it's probably, I don't know, it's probably two or three years since I did DMT because I sat down one day and I said, right, actually I fasted for two days before.

01:58:07.000 So I'll be like just in the zone.

01:58:10.000 And I said, right, I'm going to sit down.

01:58:11.000 I've got my DMT here.

01:58:13.000 I've got my vaporizer here. 0.98

01:58:14.000 I'm going to fucking smoke as much DMT as I possibly can to like, like, You know? 0.98

01:58:19.000 Until I've gone and passed out. 0.96

01:58:22.000 So I had that experience and since then I just...

01:58:24.000 I don't feel any need to do it.

01:58:27.000 I don't think there's anything more I can take from it, you know?

01:58:29.000 I've had many people tell me the same thing.

01:58:31.000 They had such a profound breakthrough experience that they're like, okay, I get it.

01:58:36.000 I had a crazy one in around 2008 or 2009 or something like that, and I took a long time off.

01:58:45.000 I didn't do it again until like five years later, maybe.

01:58:48.000 Yeah, it's pretty intense, man.

01:58:49.000 I mean, the iOS goes nice because it comes in nice and subtle.

01:58:53.000 You go through hours of this thing, but DMT is like...

01:58:56.000 Last time I did DMT. You feel very anxious when you're like...

01:58:59.000 It's almost like you're leaving your body and...

01:59:01.000 I don't want to...

01:59:03.000 You know?

01:59:03.000 Yeah.

01:59:04.000 So you get that bit of anxiety.

01:59:05.000 But once you go, you feel okay.

01:59:07.000 Once you go, it's cool, yeah.

01:59:08.000 Yeah.

01:59:08.000 It's cool, but...

01:59:09.000 Have you done it more than one time in a day?

01:59:11.000 Like multiple times in a night?

01:59:13.000 No, I just...

01:59:14.000 You know, just blasted it as far as it could go, and that was it.

01:59:17.000 I've done it several times over the course of a few hours.

01:59:21.000 And, you know, you're more comfortable letting go that way in some sort of a strange way, but it never gets less alien.

01:59:28.000 Well, we had a...

01:59:29.000 I'm not going to mention his name.

01:59:30.000 I don't know his name, but...

01:59:32.000 We had an experience, me and my friend a few months ago, that I've never seen before, because usually people take DMT, they're very calm and sit in the chair and you go off and you might start laughing, but you know, you don't move much, right?

01:59:45.000 And this guy, he just like freaked out, like...

01:59:48.000 It wasn't for 10 minutes, but for half an hour.

01:59:51.000 My friend was a former MMA fighter.

01:59:54.000 He used to fight with shamrocks. 1.00

01:59:56.000 He knew wrestling techniques, so he had to hold this guy on the floor to stop him from hurting himself because he was probably freaking out.

02:00:02.000 So I could see the guy was going through something traumatic from the past.

02:00:06.000 So today I messaged him.

02:00:08.000 I said, hey, did you ever find out what the guy was?

02:00:10.000 What was that?

02:00:11.000 Because he said, yeah, it was from his birth.

02:00:15.000 What?

02:00:16.000 He was from his birth.

02:00:17.000 When he was born, he had the cord around his neck.

02:00:19.000 Oh, Jesus.

02:00:20.000 And he went back and he relived this.

02:00:23.000 So that had been in the back of his mind all his life, subconscious.

02:00:27.000 Subconscious has a huge effect on us, but we don't know.

02:00:30.000 It's there.

02:00:30.000 So now he opened that box and let it out, and it's gone now.

02:00:34.000 Wow.

02:00:35.000 So it can be therapeutic.

02:00:37.000 I thought, this guy's like, wow.

02:00:40.000 But when he came back, he was like, hey.

02:00:42.000 I'm like, you're good?

02:00:44.000 He's like, yeah, I'm good.

02:00:44.000 I'm like, do you know what just happened?

02:00:46.000 He's like, no.

02:00:47.000 I said, good thing we filmed it then, man.

02:00:48.000 Go home and watch this.

02:00:49.000 I had a friend who freaked out, too. 1.00

02:00:52.000 He freaked out, he threw up, took his shirt off, was running around saying a bunch of crazy shit. 0.99

02:00:57.000 And then after he came down, we calmed him down. 0.99

02:01:00.000 It took like 10, 15 minutes.

02:01:01.000 He goes, Okay, well, obviously I'm a work in progress.

02:01:07.000 I'll never forget that.

02:01:08.000 I'll never forget that statement.

02:01:10.000 Did he know what it was that was troubling him so much?

02:01:13.000 Well, he had a bad childhood, for sure. 0.99

02:01:15.000 Well, everything is like, most of our shit is from there, right? 1.00

02:01:18.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:01:18.000 From the developing years. 0.98

02:01:20.000 Oh, for sure. 0.99

02:01:21.000 Yeah, I mean, especially like real traumatic ones, abuse, being beaten by his stepdad and a bunch of fucked up shit that was just haunting him. 0.97

02:01:32.000 But it helps you to come to terms with that, especially the ayahuasca because it's longer. 0.95

02:01:36.000 I felt like the first time I did ayahuasca properly with a shaman, I felt like I was a different person the next day. 0.95

02:01:42.000 I felt like I'd done 20 years of fucking therapy or something. 0.95

02:01:45.000 Just a lot of stuff I'd worked out in my mind. 0.99

02:01:47.000 I could even see...

02:01:48.000 Other people's point of view on things that I couldn't see before.

02:01:52.000 That's huge, right?

02:01:53.000 Seeing other people's point of view. 0.97

02:01:55.000 Especially a guy like you, who's so determined and goal-oriented and just cut out all the bullshit and get it done. 0.89

02:02:02.000 Yeah, you can be a little insensitive to other people's Feelings around you because it's just like nothing keep out of my way. 0.94

02:02:10.000 That's a male thing in particular anyway, right? 0.95

02:02:12.000 And then add steroids on top of that and bodybuilding and intensity and competition and then being the best, arguably the best ever and just fucking grinding every day. 0.91

02:02:24.000 My son said to me a couple of weeks ago, he's like, Dad, you don't see yourself as other people see you.

02:02:29.000 I said, what do you mean?

02:02:30.000 He said, like, I remember when I was a kid and First of all, the size, you know? 0.98

02:02:35.000 It was fucking huge. 0.98

02:02:36.000 But it's your persona. 0.99

02:02:38.000 You might have said to me something very, like, normal, like, you know?

02:02:43.000 You know, whatever.

02:02:44.000 What are you doing with a dog?

02:02:45.000 Like, just something normal.

02:02:46.000 And he said, I'll be like, because just your presence made me feel like that, you know?

02:02:53.000 Right.

02:02:54.000 That's got to be weird when you're a little tiny kid and your dad's a gorilla.

02:02:56.000 Yeah.

02:02:57.000 I remember he did kickboxing, right?

02:03:00.000 So he got his black belt when he was about 11 or something like that.

02:03:04.000 And that was my thing.

02:03:05.000 I used to take him to kickbox him and pick him up.

02:03:08.000 And he's like, Dad, can you wait outside?

02:03:11.000 I'm like, what do you mean?

02:03:12.000 Do you want me to come in?

02:03:14.000 Can you just wait outside?

02:03:15.000 Like, you don't want me to come?

02:03:16.000 It's like, yeah, but everyone's like freaking out and looking at you.

02:03:22.000 Well, it's got to be nice to know. 0.99

02:03:23.000 No, I'm fucking coming inside, man. 0.98

02:03:25.000 Semi-anonymous in crowds now, right? 0.99

02:03:27.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:03:29.000 I mean, unless someone's a hardcore bodybuilding fan.

02:03:31.000 Well, there's the thing.

02:03:33.000 Not necessarily slow because of the interviews I did on London Real.

02:03:38.000 Yeah.

02:03:40.000 And I talked about Ayahuasca and DMT and spirituality and reality and all this stuff.

02:03:44.000 I get so many people coming up to me.

02:03:47.000 They're not from the gym.

02:03:49.000 I get housewives, young kids. 0.63

02:03:51.000 It's almost like, you're the guy from London Real.

02:03:54.000 You're the guy that...

02:03:55.000 So I get a whole bunch of other people that appreciate what I'm saying. 0.97

02:04:00.000 About spirituality, about reality, and life, and they're like, fuck, man, what you said that really helped me. 0.95

02:04:05.000 I got so many letters and emails and stuff, people, you know, like, they just took something away from what I was saying. 0.90

02:04:12.000 So, I mean, that's really why I do these interviews, just trying to help The whole general vibe and, you know, put it out there and there's a whole consciousness awakening revolution going on now and I just want to push some dominoes,

02:04:28.000 you know, and like create that effect.

02:04:30.000 And then, you know, if you touch one person, They touch somebody else and it's like the butterfly wings flap here and the other side of the world is a tsunami or something.

02:04:39.000 It does seem to be working in that regard, right?

02:04:42.000 It is the time, man.

02:04:44.000 It's the time.

02:04:45.000 There's so many people that are more aware now.

02:04:50.000 Isn't it kind of like, I mean, there's parallels to bodybuilding, right?

02:04:53.000 When Arnold first started doing it, there was very little information.

02:04:57.000 And you guys got to see what they did and build upon that.

02:05:01.000 And more information came out.

02:05:03.000 And now, because of the internet, there's so much information.

02:05:05.000 Almost too much information.

02:05:06.000 People are aware more of what it's all about.

02:05:09.000 Well, with psychedelics, I mean, 20, 30 years ago, there was so much ignorance and so little understanding, and also so little understanding, especially when it comes to something as extreme as DMT. There's still a giant percentage of our population that doesn't even know what it is.

02:05:25.000 Yeah, I mean, they should all take it, especially the fucking politicians. 0.99

02:05:29.000 I like to get those politicians, man, and fucking get them in a room and force them to take DMT and then see how they're going to behave afterwards, how they're going to look at the world and treat people after they've had that experience. 0.99

02:05:42.000 I don't think you can be so self-centered and unfeeling as most of them are after you've had that experience. 0.99

02:05:52.000 I think that any breakthrough psychedelic experience, whether it's psilocybin or LSD or DMT, they're all pretty much, you know, different roads to the same place.

02:06:03.000 Well, Terence McKenna used to say that DMT is the center of the mandala.

02:06:06.000 The way I describe DMT is it's like mushrooms times a million plus aliens.

02:06:11.000 Yeah.

02:06:12.000 And then it just seems so titanically bizarre.

02:06:17.000 I've tried to describe it to people, but I always say, look, I'm going to tell...

02:06:21.000 You can't really do it, man. 0.99

02:06:21.000 Yeah, I'm going to give you some bullshit words. 0.99

02:06:23.000 Yeah, you can't really do it because you can't... 1.00

02:06:26.000 There's no way.

02:06:26.000 You don't have the words to put it into words.

02:06:30.000 You know, you can attempt to...

02:06:31.000 I went to this place.

02:06:32.000 Well, it's not a place, but I don't have the word for it.

02:06:35.000 The place is everywhere.

02:06:36.000 Yeah, it's like...

02:06:38.000 And there's colors, there's numbers, there's shapes, and...

02:06:40.000 People, things. 0.98

02:06:42.000 There's things, and there's like, everything is all one fucking thing. 0.97

02:06:45.000 And what I noticed is like, my breath was connected to it. 0.92

02:06:49.000 I don't know how it happened, but I was in the trip, and I went, like that.

02:06:52.000 And the whole thing moved.

02:06:54.000 I was like, really?

02:06:55.000 Let me try this then.

02:06:57.000 And then the whole thing moved, and then there was music playing, and music was part of the thing as well.

02:07:04.000 Like the thing.

02:07:05.000 I don't even know what to call it.

02:07:06.000 The thing, the place.

02:07:07.000 I don't have a word, you know?

02:07:08.000 We played a bunch of these shaman Icaros.

02:07:13.000 And the shaman Icaros...

02:07:14.000 This is the last time I did it.

02:07:16.000 And the shaman Icaros, like, literally made the DMT images dance.

02:07:20.000 Yeah.

02:07:20.000 Like, they had figured out a way with these sounds and songs to integrate these beats into DMT trips.

02:07:29.000 And as you would take these trips, these shamans had figured out the right sounds and songs and how to...

02:07:35.000 Make the trip more intense and sort of guided in a strange way.

02:07:39.000 Well, that's what I had with the shaman, with the ayahuasca.

02:07:43.000 He comes around and he sings these acaros and it's like, changes tone and then it goes deeper bass in his chest and it's like, it becomes part of it, you know?

02:07:55.000 And I was even moving involuntarily.

02:07:58.000 My arms was going up, my body was moving and it's like, I'm not doing this.

02:08:02.000 I don't even know how it's happening.

02:08:04.000 It's like somebody's picking my arms up and moving.

02:08:06.000 You know?

02:08:07.000 Started dancing around with this...

02:08:08.000 Becoming part of this rhythm.

02:08:11.000 Wow.

02:08:12.000 I had experience once, one of the first times I ever did DMT, where I saw the difference between negative and positive thinking.

02:08:18.000 Like, I started thinking negative, and there was all this, like, black and dark green and, like, these threatening shapes and colors.

02:08:28.000 And then something...

02:08:31.000 I recognized what was going on in my brain that these shapes and images were connected to negative thinking and I relaxed and the shapes kind of like settled down and then I started thinking positive like I heard all these like Expressions of love,

02:08:47.000 but like you're hearing it, but you're not really hearing it.

02:08:49.000 It's like the thoughts are getting into your head like someone's trying to say it without using words.

02:08:55.000 And then I started thinking positive and from those dark images blossomed these like beautiful like geometric flowers and colors and impossibly Spectacularly beautiful images.

02:09:07.000 And I was like, oh.

02:09:08.000 And I recognized in my mind there is an actual thing that happens when you think negatively.

02:09:16.000 It's not just some sort of an abstract idea.

02:09:18.000 You affect everything.

02:09:18.000 You affect the program.

02:09:19.000 You're in a program.

02:09:21.000 And your thoughts, the program's coming towards you, and your thoughts are going, and it's interacting with the program.

02:09:27.000 And that's why conflict, like interpersonal conflict between people, can be so negative.

02:09:33.000 It's not just as simple as you and some person getting into an argument.

02:09:36.000 It's those dark images and those negative forces.

02:09:40.000 It becomes a part of your system.

02:09:42.000 I had exactly the same thing.

02:09:46.000 But it was almost like a tunnel.

02:09:48.000 I was in this tunnel.

02:09:49.000 And it was the same thing.

02:09:50.000 It was like...

02:09:51.000 All these images around and scary and everything.

02:09:55.000 And I was like...

02:09:57.000 Instinctively, I knew to be very relaxed. 1.00

02:09:59.000 And I started laughing like, fuck you. 1.00

02:10:02.000 You're not even real. 1.00

02:10:03.000 You're not even real.

02:10:05.000 And when I said that, it went away, and I just got this thing that came into my head.

02:10:09.000 You've just been in the valley...

02:10:11.000 What's it called?

02:10:13.000 The valley of the shadow of death.

02:10:16.000 It's in the Lord's Prayer, I think.

02:10:17.000 Yeah, either we walk through the valley of the shadow of the death, you should fear no evil, because God's by the side.

02:10:22.000 I vaguely remember it from school or something.

02:10:25.000 But I got this thing, like, you were there, and you're in the valley of the shadow of death, and because you, like... 1.00

02:10:31.000 Fuck you, it's not even real. 1.00

02:10:33.000 It just disappeared and then it went to somewhere really nice. 1.00

02:10:37.000 Wow.

02:10:39.000 Yeah, I just wonder how much is real.

02:10:42.000 It's such a hippie thing to say.

02:10:44.000 How much is real?

02:10:45.000 I don't know.

02:10:46.000 I've been having these thoughts a lot lately.

02:10:49.000 How much of life do you manifest?

02:10:53.000 How much of life is real? 1.00

02:10:54.000 Because it's such a bullshit thing to think. 0.99

02:10:56.000 It's such a hippie thing to think. 1.00

02:10:58.000 And so many people that say that are so annoying.

02:11:00.000 Yeah, but scientists are saying the same thing now.

02:11:02.000 Quantum physicists are saying...

02:11:06.000 I think his name is Professor Gates.

02:11:09.000 I don't know if you're familiar with him.

02:11:10.000 Professor Gates, and he said that they've broken down reality into the smallest level, and it's a computer code.

02:11:20.000 Yes, I've seen that guy.

02:11:21.000 Not only is it a computer code, it's a specific computer code of zeros and ones, and it was invented in the 1940s by somebody.

02:11:28.000 Yeah, I've seen that guy being interviewed.

02:11:31.000 We actually talked about it with Neil deGrasse Tyson, and I tried to get him to sort of break it down and explain.

02:11:39.000 But what it is is essentially that...

02:11:41.000 When you break reality down to the smallest level, it mimics a self-correcting computer code.

02:11:47.000 Not just a computer code, but a computer code that's self-correcting, which is...

02:11:54.000 Right there, I just said a bunch of noises that I don't even understand.

02:11:57.000 It's gone beyond my...

02:11:58.000 But now you're getting spirituality and science.

02:12:01.000 It's coming together, because the scientists are saying what spiritual masters...

02:12:05.000 Well, they're already telling us that we live in an illusion and everything is inside, not outside.

02:12:09.000 They were saying that thousands of years ago.

02:12:11.000 But some of it is real.

02:12:13.000 Like you have to work hard or you don't get results, right?

02:12:16.000 Like your hard, fast, pragmatic reality of being the best bodybuilder in the world revolves around actual work, real results.

02:12:26.000 In this reality, in this program.

02:12:28.000 You need to do physical stuff, yeah. 0.99

02:12:30.000 Probably there was a lot of mental shit going on there, too. 0.99

02:12:34.000 Absolutely. 1.00

02:12:34.000 The work was being done, but also there was probably a lot of... 1.00

02:12:38.000 Thoughts all day.

02:12:39.000 I mean, that's all I thought about. 0.99

02:12:40.000 Literally, all fucking day. 0.99

02:12:42.000 So... 0.99

02:12:43.000 You know?

02:12:43.000 I had to have the physical goods to make it happen.

02:12:47.000 I could dream about being a basketball player all day.

02:12:49.000 Probably wouldn't help me because I'm not built to be a basketball player.

02:12:53.000 But those thoughts were just going out all the time.

02:12:55.000 And I was a kid in Birmingham, industrial city in England.

02:13:01.000 And I was thinking, I'm going to go to America and I'm going to be a bodybuilder. 1.00

02:13:04.000 And everyone around me was like, the fuck you talking about? 0.99

02:13:09.000 So yeah, there was those thoughts all the time. 0.99

02:13:11.000 So I think it's like a holographic program we're in, but we influenced it.

02:13:17.000 We interact with it, with our thoughts.

02:13:20.000 That's kind of where I'm getting at now.

02:13:22.000 Yes, in some way.

02:13:24.000 And the guys...

02:13:26.000 That were spiritual masters like Buddha and the guy they called Jesus and all that apparently did things that were called miracles because they were outside the box, outside the physical reality we live in.

02:13:41.000 How can you walk on water?

02:13:42.000 That's not possible.

02:13:43.000 Right.

02:13:44.000 But if you were so advanced that you really knew it was a program, then you can like hack the program.

02:13:52.000 And that's how they're able to do it.

02:13:54.000 They kind of remove themselves out of the program.

02:13:59.000 Yeah, how can guys levitate or walk on water?

02:14:03.000 I don't know if they can.

02:14:04.000 Yeah, well, I don't know.

02:14:06.000 I wasn't there.

02:14:06.000 See, that's the thing.

02:14:07.000 There's no evidence whatsoever that anybody actually can levitate.

02:14:11.000 Well, people have witnessed people doing it, but I haven't.

02:14:13.000 Yeah, people have witnessed Bigfoot. 0.99

02:14:15.000 There's a lot of people who said some weird shit. 0.97

02:14:17.000 The problem with people saying things is they might have literally seen that, but it doesn't mean it wasn't a hallucination. 0.99

02:14:22.000 And then again, it doesn't mean that a hallucination is an alternative reality that you're experiencing.

02:14:28.000 Yeah, what's a hallucination?

02:14:28.000 What is it?

02:14:29.000 You know, people say you hallucinate when you take LSD or DMT. You're just hallucinating.

02:14:33.000 But are you?

02:14:34.000 Or are you just seeing more stuff that you can't normally see because now you've shifted your...

02:14:38.000 Your vibration, you know?

02:14:40.000 Yeah, well, one of the things that I tried to explain to someone about DMT that I've kind of used over and over again since then is that I felt like I met with the divine force of the universe, or a divine force.

02:14:57.000 Maybe my puny little brain could only comprehend this level of divinity and that maybe perhaps there was something even more profoundly more powerful and knowledgeable and wise past that but I wasn't ready to perceive it that maybe there's levels to that that it's fractal just like everything else and someone said like well you know how do you know that wasn't a hallucination I go well it could have been but here's the deal whether or not it was or wasn't the experience is the same like if you really go into some other dimension and meet

02:15:27.000 God Or you take a drug in which you experience going to another dimension and meeting God.

02:15:34.000 It's still the same experience.

02:15:36.000 The exact same experience.

02:15:37.000 And why is everybody's experience kind of similar?

02:15:41.000 Right. 0.98

02:15:41.000 You know, we're going to have a totally different fucking illusion. 0.98

02:15:44.000 No one seems to think it's no big deal. 0.98

02:15:46.000 Yeah.

02:15:46.000 No one that I know who's ever done DMT is like, eh, it's no big deal.

02:15:50.000 You're not going to be the same afterwards.

02:15:52.000 No.

02:15:52.000 Your perspective is going to be different.

02:15:55.000 Your point of view is going to be different.

02:15:57.000 Yeah.

02:16:00.000 I don't know anybody that's done DMT and they've said that was not a positive experience.

02:16:06.000 I didn't get anything from that. 0.99

02:16:08.000 Every fucking body I know has said that. 1.00

02:16:10.000 What? 1.00

02:16:11.000 Wow. 1.00

02:16:12.000 The fuck? 1.00

02:16:14.000 What is this? 1.00

02:16:16.000 Where am I? Who is this?

02:16:18.000 What are noises that come from my mouth?

02:16:20.000 Nobody's like...

02:16:22.000 Nobody's ever said to me that...

02:16:24.000 Even the guy that I saw... 1.00

02:16:27.000 That looked like he was getting raped by the devil. 1.00

02:16:29.000 You saw a guy getting raped by the devil? 1.00

02:16:30.000 I didn't see that, but I saw his eyes. 0.60

02:16:32.000 And that's how I imagined somebody's eyes would look like if that was happening.

02:16:37.000 He looked like...

02:16:41.000 In absolute terror is all I can say.

02:16:44.000 Absolute terror I saw in this guy's eyes for like 20 minutes.

02:16:48.000 But when he came back, he was like...

02:16:50.000 Oh, this is the guy that was reliving his childhood.

02:16:52.000 He didn't even know.

02:16:52.000 I'm like, you okay, dude?

02:16:53.000 Yeah, man, that was fucking great. 0.87

02:16:57.000 I'm like, do you know what happened? 0.98

02:17:00.000 He's like, yeah, it was great.

02:17:01.000 I'm like, okay, you need to watch this video when you go home because we filmed you, man.

02:17:06.000 I had a friend, my friend Doug Stanhope, and he's talked about this many times on stage.

02:17:10.000 I got him high on DMT at my house.

02:17:13.000 And he's the only guy that I've ever got high on DMT that I worried about.

02:17:17.000 Because he fell over on the couch and started moaning and like foam was coming out of his mouth.

02:17:23.000 But he's so unhealthy.

02:17:26.000 He smokes cigarettes.

02:17:27.000 He drinks constantly.

02:17:29.000 And I was like, oh my god, did I break my friend?

02:17:32.000 I was really worried. 0.99

02:17:33.000 I was like, maybe I should have considered the fact this fucking guy doesn't really take care of himself. 0.99

02:17:38.000 I think when your system's kind of toxic, You don't get the best results. 0.99

02:17:42.000 Oh, he came out of it.

02:17:43.000 He got great results.

02:17:44.000 He came out of it.

02:17:45.000 It was a fantastic experience for him.

02:17:47.000 He came out of it with all these revelations.

02:17:49.000 We had a great conversation about it.

02:17:51.000 But in the moment, he was like... 0.97

02:17:58.000 And I was like, oh no, I've killed him. 0.81

02:18:01.000 Oh, this guy was spasming him and kicking.

02:18:03.000 I mean, my friend had to hold him on the floor to stop him from smashing the furniture or hurting himself.

02:18:08.000 Wow.

02:18:09.000 So he was thinking he was being choked.

02:18:10.000 It was like 10 minutes, 15, 20. Oh, God.

02:18:15.000 I was starting to get concerned.

02:18:18.000 Jesus Christ.

02:18:19.000 Half an hour later, he came out of it.

02:18:20.000 But he's glad he did it now.

02:18:23.000 I'm glad he couldn't see himself at the time.

02:18:25.000 Do you ever float?

02:18:28.000 A flotation tank?

02:18:29.000 Yeah.

02:18:29.000 I did it once.

02:18:31.000 And you know, funny enough, like when I was a kid, I read Frank Zane.

02:18:34.000 Frank Zane was doing flotation tanks back in the 70s.

02:18:37.000 Yeah, those Samadhi tanks.

02:18:39.000 So I always wanted to do it.

02:18:40.000 And I saw this place when I was over in England.

02:18:43.000 They're everywhere now.

02:18:44.000 So I went in there and I said to the guy, like talking about it, I said, listen, man, let me ask you a question.

02:18:51.000 I said, is it good to smoke weed before you go in there?

02:18:53.000 And he's like, I'll tell you the truth.

02:18:55.000 He said, a lot of people come here, they smoke weed outside before they come in.

02:18:58.000 He said, but the first time, I think you should just go with nothing and see how it goes.

02:19:03.000 And I'll be honest, I was in there for like, it was an hour thing. 0.91

02:19:06.000 After 40 minutes, I just got really fucking bored.

02:19:11.000 I thought to myself, I meditate every day, yeah? 0.78

02:19:14.000 So I was like, this is like, I don't feel this is any better than me doing my meditation.

02:19:20.000 I'm just getting kind of the same thing.

02:19:22.000 That's interesting.

02:19:22.000 I wasn't blown away by it like I expected to be, to be honest.

02:19:26.000 But then, you know, I've done DMT and Ayahuasca and acid and everything, so maybe my expectations were too high.

02:19:33.000 I always give the same advice.

02:19:35.000 I say don't smoke weed the first time.

02:19:38.000 Just go and experience it.

02:19:39.000 But my thoughts are that Isolation tanks and the isolation tank experience is something that it takes time to really fully relax and settle in.

02:19:49.000 And there's layers to the onion and you got to go deeper and deeper and peel those layers away.

02:19:54.000 And I've done it so many times.

02:19:56.000 I have one in my basement.

02:19:57.000 So I've done it so many times now that when I go in, I can slide right in almost immediately.

02:20:03.000 But I'll tell you this, I rarely go in sober.

02:20:06.000 I almost always go in high as a kite.

02:20:08.000 And edibles, preferably, are the best way to really...

02:20:12.000 I can have full-blown psychedelic experiences in the tank on edibles.

02:20:18.000 Full-blown visuals, going into the jungle, experiencing the center of the universe, intense, intense stuff.

02:20:27.000 Because the relaxation, the fact that the only information you're taking in Is like there's a mild feeling of the water on your body very mild that you have to think about to be aware of and Occasionally you'll touch the sides of the tank and you have to kind of write yourself There's no some water gets in the air or something but other than that don't rub your eyes get salt your eyes is a bad one but other than that you're experiencing no sound no No visual input.

02:20:55.000 And in the absence of that visual input, I think all those other thoughts become more powerful.

02:21:00.000 So whatever the effect of marijuana is on a regular body when you're just hanging out, sitting around, that effect is intensified in a big way when you're in the isolation tank.

02:21:11.000 Well, I'd like to go back and try that next time.

02:21:13.000 Well, when you're in town, I can hook it up if you want.

02:21:16.000 How many times are you in town for?

02:21:17.000 How long are you in town for?

02:21:19.000 We're only here until Thursday evening and then go to Vegas to do a competition there.

02:21:23.000 Well, they have them in Vegas, too, now.

02:21:25.000 They have them everywhere.

02:21:26.000 When I first started doing the tank, my first experience, I think, was in the early, early 2000s.

02:21:32.000 And I got my first tank in 2003. Because when I bought my house, one of the reasons why I bought it is it had a basement.

02:21:38.000 And I was like, I want a place to put the tank.

02:21:41.000 Because I had done the tank a couple of times at this place called Soothing Solutions in Burbank.

02:21:45.000 Yeah, if you've got it there and you can do it every day, then...

02:21:47.000 Oh, it's the best.

02:21:48.000 I'll do it at night and I get home from a comedy show and I'll say, I need to process my thoughts and go over my material and I'll climb in that tank and just take off to the center of the universe.

02:21:58.000 Figure things out.

02:21:59.000 It also makes me reconsider how my thoughts are being...

02:22:02.000 One of the things about comedy is you have an idea and you've got to try to figure out a way to get that idea into people's minds and sometimes it's the wrong way.

02:22:11.000 Sometimes it's too abrupt or too corrosive or it's too...

02:22:15.000 It's just not...

02:22:16.000 It's not smoothly getting into people's minds.

02:22:19.000 So you have to really consider it.

02:22:22.000 So that idea of...

02:22:24.000 Seeing other people's perspectives, like that we were talking about earlier, that's huge with stand-up comedy.

02:22:30.000 And one of the best ways to kind of get out of your own way, for me, is to explore things in the tank.

02:22:35.000 Because in the absence of any physical input, you kind of stop thinking of your body and your brain and you as an individual, as like the captain of the ship.

02:22:47.000 And all the other things start to become more and more...

02:22:51.000 So you've got more room to process.

02:22:53.000 Well, that's the idea.

02:22:54.000 You and I are having this conversation, but one of the reasons why I like to do it in this room with no one else here but us is because there's no distractions, right? 0.92

02:23:01.000 But if there was a guy in the other room with a jackhammer, it would fuck us up.

02:23:05.000 We'd want to get out of there, right? 0.98

02:23:06.000 Let's go over here so we can talk more quietly.

02:23:08.000 Same in the gym.

02:23:08.000 You want to get in the gym, you want to be in your bubble.

02:23:11.000 That's why a lot of guys put headphones on, right? 0.98

02:23:13.000 You just want to fucking grind and get in your own head. 1.00

02:23:15.000 Well, in And life itself, like while we're sitting here, your chair is sending signals to your ass, your hands on the table. 1.00

02:23:23.000 It's all data. 0.98

02:23:23.000 In the tank, there's nothing. 0.98

02:23:25.000 And in the absence of sensory input, I believe that your brain becomes supercharged.

02:23:29.000 And I think you can consider things in a much more clear way.

02:23:33.000 I think you have more resources.

02:23:34.000 I find the same with meditation.

02:23:37.000 It's like when I try to explain to people, I said it's almost like I feel like it's slowed down my thought process.

02:23:43.000 So now when I have thoughts, I see them coming in.

02:23:45.000 Yeah.

02:23:46.000 I'm like, do I want to act on this thought or not?

02:23:49.000 Right.

02:23:49.000 Whereas before, I already acted on it before it was, you know, I recognized it.

02:23:53.000 That's a huge problem is being a reactionary person and constantly dealing with input coming in and, like, instinctively batting it away or instinctively arguing.

02:24:03.000 And if you're, like, stressed and anxious, you're always going to react like that.

02:24:06.000 So you need to get rid of all that, you know?

02:24:10.000 And people know that.

02:24:11.000 And I think that's one of the reasons why people have a real problem with President Trump.

02:24:15.000 One of the real problems that people have with him.

02:24:17.000 Like, this is a guy that argues with people on Twitter.

02:24:19.000 Gets mad.

02:24:20.000 Wasn't he on the WWE? Yeah, he was.

02:24:22.000 Wasn't that perfect training, to be president?

02:24:24.000 But that's fun. 0.83

02:24:25.000 That's silly to me.

02:24:26.000 I mean, that's... 0.85

02:24:27.000 Yeah, but it's the same thing, man.

02:24:28.000 You're performing.

02:24:29.000 You know, for me, that's just what a...

02:24:33.000 The president, how much power does he really have?

02:24:36.000 How much influence?

02:24:37.000 Or is it just a pantomime, a distraction for people?

02:24:41.000 But that was before he was president. 0.99

02:24:42.000 What I'm reacting to is him tweeting things today, like shitting on people, insulting people. 1.00

02:24:49.000 When you're the fucking president of the United States, you're the leader of the free world. 0.99

02:24:54.000 You can't be going on Twitter and just insulting people, putting out that conflict energy that we were talking about. 0.99

02:25:00.000 For what reason?

02:25:01.000 And people recognize, whether they know it or not, inherently, they know that this is not the way to lead.

02:25:07.000 This is not the way to be above it all.

02:25:09.000 This is not the wise person that we want at the top of the hill setting the standards for all the people.

02:25:14.000 How about it?

02:25:16.000 Which was your alternative?

02:25:17.000 There's no alternative.

02:25:19.000 There you go.

02:25:20.000 I don't think there should be a president.

02:25:21.000 I've said this a million times.

02:25:22.000 I just think there's too many people.

02:25:23.000 How much power does the president really have?

02:25:24.000 I mean, you had Obama, right?

02:25:26.000 He said he was going to close down Guantanamo Bay.

02:25:29.000 Yeah, great, but it didn't happen.

02:25:31.000 I don't know why.

02:25:32.000 Did he want to do it?

02:25:33.000 But he couldn't because other people are really in control?

02:25:35.000 Or maybe they explained to him why they shouldn't do it.

02:25:39.000 There could be a bunch of factors.

02:25:41.000 I don't know.

02:25:42.000 But I think maybe you go there with good intentions, but there's other people that pull the strings and, you know, the president's just a front guy.

02:25:49.000 In that sense, one of the things about Trump being so bold and so egotistical, I think that's probably a positive, is that he's resisting the deep state.

02:25:59.000 He's resisting all of these other outside influences, and he's so wealthy.

02:26:04.000 That he has the financial power to insulate himself from these other people that are like him.

02:26:12.000 Well, I got friends in the States and that was the feedback that I got.

02:26:16.000 The guys that liked Trump, they liked him because they felt that he wasn't going to be controlled by the big money, the guys that own the Federal Reserve and pulling the strings on the military and all that stuff.

02:26:29.000 I don't think you can beat those guys.

02:26:32.000 You know?

02:26:33.000 They control the money system.

02:26:34.000 They control everything.

02:26:35.000 It's a mess.

02:26:36.000 I think I like your idea. 0.99

02:26:37.000 We need to get them all fucked up. 1.00

02:26:38.000 Yeah, get them all fucked up. 1.00

02:26:39.000 Let's get Hillary stoned. 1.00

02:26:41.000 And make her a real nice cool lady, you know? 1.00

02:26:43.000 She would just go, I've killed so many people! 0.90

02:26:48.000 I confess.

02:26:51.000 There's a picture of a deer that was on the side of the road that was dead.

02:26:55.000 You know one of those comic memes?

02:26:57.000 Yeah.

02:26:57.000 And it said, what did this deer know about Hillary Clinton?

02:27:01.000 It seems to be dangerous to know too much about Hillary and Bill Clinton.

02:27:05.000 Two people were killed just in the last couple of weeks.

02:27:08.000 They committed suicide. 1.00

02:27:10.000 A lot of people know this shit, right? 1.00

02:27:12.000 So they're like, we've got this fucking psychopath. 1.00

02:27:14.000 We've got this idiot guy, but maybe he's a better alternative than the psychopath, so let's go with the orange guy. 1.00

02:27:22.000 Let's go with the orange guy, because he's not part of this cabal, and maybe he's going to change things for the better. 1.00

02:27:31.000 That's why people went with him, I believe, because he was seen to be not controlled by the same forces, if you like.

02:27:39.000 The Clintons, the Bushes, all these people, they're all in the same club, right?

02:27:44.000 Well, it just seems that change, especially change over our culture, you know, over civilization, happens in these slow ticks to the right or ticks to the left, moving in a good direction or a bad direction.

02:27:57.000 It's so slow to change.

02:28:00.000 And so when something like this comes around that is perceived to be a negative thing and is perceived to be a negative thing moving in a terrible direction and quite rapidly, it scares the shit out of people.

02:28:13.000 Well, that's feedback I get now of people over here.

02:28:16.000 They're concerned, you know?

02:28:17.000 Yeah.

02:28:19.000 Personally, I don't think it makes that much difference who's president. 0.98

02:28:22.000 It's just a fucking sideshow to entertain people, keep them distracted. 0.97

02:28:27.000 Do you think that's on purpose? 0.99

02:28:29.000 Yeah.

02:28:29.000 Get all emotional.

02:28:30.000 Like, oh, Trump is... 1.00

02:28:32.000 It's just bullshit. 1.00

02:28:34.000 It's a pantomime. 1.00

02:28:35.000 It's just to keep you distracted.

02:28:37.000 Keep you entertained, just like football and everything else.

02:28:41.000 Don't look over here.

02:28:42.000 Look over here.

02:28:42.000 It's a magician's trick, you know?

02:28:44.000 Wow.

02:28:46.000 I like to think that way sometimes.

02:28:48.000 Then other times I think it's probably just too complicated for anybody to really orchestrate.

02:28:52.000 And we're just reacting to these wants and needs and human instincts and a variety of factors that have been set in motion, like the momentum of these things.

02:29:02.000 Things that have been set in motion forever and people trying to profit people trying to figure out how to control various factions of it But the idea of like one person or one group pulling the strings as I find it less and less plausible.

02:29:15.000 Yeah, this is a There's one small group that controls that the debt.

02:29:20.000 Yeah, it's not even money instead.

02:29:22.000 Yeah, I know so if you control that then you control pretty much everything, right?

02:29:26.000 But isn't everybody in debt?

02:29:27.000 Is every country in debt?

02:29:28.000 Isn't China in debt too?

02:29:30.000 To who?

02:29:30.000 Exactly.

02:29:31.000 That's why it's so fucking confusing. 0.66

02:29:33.000 Who are they in debt to? 0.92

02:29:34.000 If everybody is in debt to everybody, like, is that really debt anymore? 0.51

02:29:38.000 No, they just fucking print money and put a number on a thing and, you know, you owe us X amount.

02:29:43.000 Let's just cancel all the debt. 0.98

02:29:45.000 Yeah.

02:29:46.000 No, that's why they distract you with things like, we're going to go after medical marijuana.

02:29:50.000 Like that Jeff Sessions guy.

02:29:52.000 He's the ultimate distraction.

02:29:54.000 He's going to start cracking down on marijuana.

02:29:56.000 Marijuana, cannabis is like, that's a huge thing in the evolution of consciousness.

02:30:01.000 And it's getting more available and more accepted.

02:30:04.000 And there's so many layers to it, man.

02:30:07.000 It's like, medically, it's amazing.

02:30:10.000 Spiritually, it's amazing. 0.79

02:30:13.000 The hemp plant can fucking supply what, you know, Henry Ford built a Model T Ford out of hempcrete, right? 0.95

02:30:20.000 Not only that, it's way stronger. 0.97

02:30:22.000 It's way stronger.

02:30:23.000 You ever see when he hits it with a hammer, he hits the fenders with a hammer? 0.98

02:30:25.000 It doesn't fucking rust. 0.90

02:30:26.000 It's lighter. 0.88

02:30:27.000 You know, everything.

02:30:28.000 He fueled it with hemp ethanol as well.

02:30:30.000 Did you ever see them make that video where they have him hit the hammer against the fender?

02:30:36.000 It's like the first Model T. They had met fenders.

02:30:39.000 They had made them out of hemp. 1.00

02:30:41.000 And he's whacking it with a fucking hammer. 0.99

02:30:44.000 And hemp, people don't understand, if you've never experienced it, the hemp stalk, the actual stalk of the tree itself, it'll get very big and thick, and it's extremely hard, but extremely light. 0.99

02:30:57.000 It's not like anything.

02:30:57.000 Any other wood.

02:30:58.000 It's light.

02:30:59.000 It's hard wearing.

02:31:00.000 It's easy to grow.

02:31:02.000 Hard like oak, but light like balsa wood.

02:31:04.000 Look at this.

02:31:05.000 That is hemp. 0.99

02:31:06.000 So he's banging his hammer against this fucking car and it's not even making a dent. 0.99

02:31:12.000 So tell me why he didn't build the car out of hemp then. 0.99

02:31:14.000 Because of William Randolph Hearst. 1.00

02:31:16.000 That fucking cunt. 1.00

02:31:18.000 William Randolph Hearst was the guy who owned Hearst Publications. 1.00

02:31:21.000 He also owned a bunch of paper mills.

02:31:23.000 And he's the guy who demonized hemp.

02:31:26.000 He's also the guy that was the motivation for Orson Welles to make the movie Rosebud.

02:31:31.000 Or the movie Citizen Kane, rather.

02:31:33.000 Isn't it something to do with the oil and steel industries as well?

02:31:37.000 It has to do with a lot of things, but a big part of it was William Randolph Hearst, because they had a cover of Popular Science magazine that was like, Hemp, the new billion dollar crop.

02:31:47.000 And they made that because there was a device that was invented called the decorticator.

02:31:53.000 And what a decorticator was, it was a machine that allowed you to effectively process the hemp fiber without the use of slavery.

02:32:01.000 See, for years and years, they had used slavery to process hemp.

02:32:05.000 And hemp was what they used for cannabis.

02:32:07.000 That's why the name cannabis comes from the word cannabis.

02:32:11.000 That's literally La Mona Lisa.

02:32:13.000 They write the Declaration of Independence on hemp paper or something?

02:32:16.000 So the first drafts, yeah, on hemp paper.

02:32:17.000 It's a far superior paper than wood pulp paper.

02:32:20.000 Well, when they had come out with this article in Popular Science magazine, Hemp the New Billion Dollar Crop, they were essentially saying that hemp, because of the decorticator, now hemp would replace wood for paper, for all these other things.

02:32:33.000 So we don't need to destroy the forests anymore?

02:32:35.000 William Rondolph Hearst not only owned these newspapers, but he also owned these paper mills, and he owned these forests.

02:32:44.000 And he decided to combat this competing industry with propaganda. 0.85

02:32:49.000 So they started printing these stories about how these black people and Mexicans were taking this wild drug called marijuana. 0.92

02:32:58.000 Exactly. 0.63

02:32:59.000 And then everybody was like, Jesus.

02:33:00.000 So when Congress first made marijuana, first of all, marijuana was not even the word for cannabis.

02:33:07.000 Marijuana was a word for a wild Mexican tobacco that had nothing to do with it.

02:33:11.000 But it's Mexican. 0.93

02:33:12.000 Exactly.

02:33:14.000 Careful!

02:33:14.000 Danger!

02:33:15.000 Danger!

02:33:15.000 Across the border!

02:33:16.000 The brown ones! 0.88

02:33:17.000 And so people responded to this, and when they made it illegal, they didn't even understand that they were making cannabis.

02:33:25.000 They didn't understand they were making the commodity hemp illegal.

02:33:29.000 To this day, until recently, On it, we sell hemp protein.

02:33:33.000 When we first started on it several years ago, we had to buy all of our hemp from Canada.

02:33:39.000 Because even though it's not psychoactive, it was illegal still to grow in America. 1.00

02:33:44.000 It's so stupid. 1.00

02:33:47.000 It's just so titanically stupid. 1.00

02:33:49.000 But the, you know... 1.00

02:33:51.000 There's a crack in the dam now.

02:33:53.000 You can't stop it, man.

02:33:55.000 That ball was rolling now, and people are waking up to the benefits.

02:34:00.000 How many states have you got in the U.S. now that's legal?

02:34:02.000 There's quite a few medical, and I think there's something like nine recreational.

02:34:08.000 Nevada, Massachusetts, California, Oregon, Washington State.

02:34:14.000 Washington, D.C. Did I say that already?

02:34:21.000 I don't know how many other ones there are.

02:34:24.000 Maine?

02:34:24.000 Alaska.

02:34:27.000 Colorado, of course.

02:34:28.000 Yeah, so how many of them?

02:34:30.000 Legalized cannabis.

02:34:31.000 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. 7 legalized cannabis.

02:34:36.000 And then jurisdiction with medical decriminalization.

02:34:39.000 There's a lot of funky, weird shades to that.

02:34:41.000 There's more than three shades there. 1.00

02:34:44.000 It's all bullshit. 0.99

02:34:45.000 They just make it legal across the board. 1.00

02:34:47.000 But it takes time, man.

02:34:49.000 The amount of money.

02:34:50.000 What's fascinating is the amount of money that is coming in.

02:34:53.000 And that's affecting it.

02:34:55.000 Because these people are getting involved in it.

02:34:57.000 Colorado?

02:34:57.000 Colorado's massive.

02:34:58.000 They put it back into the school systems and the medical.

02:35:01.000 They're giving people tax refunds.

02:35:02.000 Sorry, we made too much money.

02:35:04.000 Well, they taxed it at 39%.

02:35:06.000 And everybody's like, okay. 0.99

02:35:07.000 Nobody gives a shit. 0.99

02:35:08.000 It's still cheap. 0.99

02:35:09.000 I read that in Nevada, in Vegas, they're literally running out.

02:35:12.000 Oh, yeah.

02:35:12.000 They call it a state of emergency.

02:35:14.000 Yeah, that's right.

02:35:15.000 It's hilarious.

02:35:16.000 They're out of weed.

02:35:17.000 Yeah.

02:35:17.000 I hope not, because I'm going there Saturday.

02:35:19.000 Oh, they'll get you some.

02:35:20.000 I'll hook it up.

02:35:21.000 I know people.

02:35:21.000 Nevada declares marijuana state of emergency to avoid $100 million tax shortfall because they wanted the money from the marijuana because they were making so much money in taxes.

02:35:32.000 I think Nevada has 39% as well, right?

02:35:35.000 Are they at a 39% tax rate?

02:35:37.000 It's $15 for recreational, I think.

02:35:39.000 Only $15?

02:35:39.000 Yeah.

02:35:40.000 Really?

02:35:40.000 I think so.

02:35:41.000 Well, they fucked up. 1.00

02:35:42.000 They should have went $39. 1.00

02:35:42.000 Nobody gives a shit. 1.00

02:35:43.000 It's still $5 for it. 0.98

02:35:45.000 When you're buying.

02:35:45.000 I don't know if the stores are getting taxed, too, for what they sell recreational.

02:35:49.000 They might get an extra tax.

02:35:50.000 The thing is, the ball is rolling.

02:35:51.000 It's not going to stop now.

02:35:54.000 So many people out there have cured cancer as well by using the concentrated oil and stuff.

02:35:59.000 I got a couple of friends that have cured their own cancer from changing the diet, going to a plant-based alkaline diet and taking the cannabis oil and the doctors are like baffled.

02:36:11.000 So there's that.

02:36:13.000 And that's a powerful thing.

02:36:14.000 If somebody cures their cancer, they're going to tell everybody.

02:36:16.000 They're going to tell everybody they know, all their family, and it's just a matter of time.

02:36:20.000 They just had something on a mainstream, which I was surprised, a mainstream news show in England where they had this case of this kid who was in hospital who was dying from, I can't remember what it was, but anyway, the point is his mother was sneaking in the cannabis oil.

02:36:39.000 And he got cured for that.

02:36:40.000 And then they did this whole thing on breakfast TV about how the, you know, the kid was, got rid of his cancer now.

02:36:47.000 But I noticed they still, you know, they're obviously told to say this.

02:36:52.000 You know, they're told this whole story about the kid is like, you know, his cancer's gone now because his mom was sneaking in the cannabis oil and, wow, we need to look into this.

02:37:00.000 But we must state, everybody, people, we must tell you, we must, you know, it's not a cure, right?

02:37:07.000 Right. 0.99

02:37:08.000 What the fuck are you talking about? 0.99

02:37:09.000 It's cured. 0.99

02:37:10.000 What you're talking about is not a cure, but it's obviously something they've got to state, you know?

02:37:14.000 Because it's actually illegal to claim that you can cure cancer.

02:37:18.000 Well, it's illegal to possess the marijuana, so it's illegal probably to use it as a treatment.

02:37:24.000 Even though it's effective, you have to say it's not a cure.

02:37:27.000 Exactly.

02:37:27.000 And there's the influence of the pharmaceutical drug companies that will come down.

02:37:31.000 I mean, there's pharmaceutical drug companies that advertise on these networks, which becomes a huge problem. 0.97

02:37:36.000 Because if they're advertising Abilify and fucking Wellbutrin and all this different shit that they're selling... 0.96

02:37:43.000 They're not going to be interested in you telling positive stories about abandoning all pharmaceutical drugs and then taking natural remedies. 0.99

02:37:50.000 Of course not.

02:37:50.000 They can't patent it.

02:37:51.000 So what they're trying to do now is make, you know, slightly different versions of it that they can patent.

02:37:58.000 There's one company, I think it's GW Pharmaceuticals in the UK. But guess what?

02:38:04.000 It doesn't fucking work when you do that. 0.97

02:38:06.000 No. 0.99

02:38:06.000 So I'm laughing at them. 0.99

02:38:07.000 Waste all your fucking money. 1.00

02:38:09.000 The plant is perfect as it is. 1.00

02:38:11.000 It's a perfect balance.

02:38:13.000 It works as it is.

02:38:14.000 But they can't trademark it.

02:38:16.000 You can't trademark it, so you want to change it a little bit to create something you can trademark and make tons of profit off. 0.97

02:38:21.000 But guess what, suckers? 0.90

02:38:22.000 It ain't working.

02:38:24.000 Once you change it, it doesn't work the way it's supposed to work. 0.99

02:38:27.000 It's all people trying to control shit. 0.97

02:38:29.000 You know, it's people that are trying to control how much agriculture you could sell. 1.00

02:38:34.000 I mean, that's what it is.

02:38:35.000 It's agriculture.

02:38:36.000 Marijuana really is a psychoactive agriculture.

02:38:39.000 It's plants. 0.99

02:38:40.000 Like, the idea that you tell someone they can't grow tomatoes in their backyard is fucking bananas. 1.00

02:38:44.000 It's ridiculous. 1.00

02:38:45.000 It's a plant that grows from the ground exactly as it is. 1.00

02:38:49.000 God fucking made plant grows from the ground. 0.99

02:38:51.000 How can that be illegal? 0.98

02:38:52.000 Right, so if you have tomatoes in your backyard, everyone knows tomatoes have lots of vitamins, they're healthy for you, and no one would say, oh, you can't do that.

02:39:00.000 What are the herbs that are good for you? 0.99

02:39:02.000 Fucking Chinese have been using herbs for thousands of years. 1.00

02:39:05.000 Marijuana is just the same thing. 1.00

02:39:06.000 But it's the mother of all of them. 1.00

02:39:07.000 It's like the fucking top... 0.99

02:39:10.000 You know, sometimes people get confused about like, oh, you know, you're supposed to be healthy. 0.99

02:39:15.000 You're supposed to be an athlete.

02:39:16.000 What are you doing smoking marijuana? 0.99

02:39:18.000 I'm like, that's the fucking healthiest thing I do. 0.99

02:39:20.000 Every day, I got like 40 tablets here, yeah? 0.99

02:39:24.000 I got fish oils.

02:39:24.000 I got vitamin C. I got resveratrol.

02:39:26.000 I got herbs.

02:39:28.000 I got everything, you know?

02:39:31.000 But guess what? 0.98

02:39:31.000 More powerful than all those fucking things together, although they're beneficial, is my cannabis oil I take every day. 0.98

02:39:37.000 This is like... 0.99

02:39:38.000 I don't know if you're familiar with a guy called Bob Malamade.

02:39:42.000 Dr. Bob Malamade.

02:39:44.000 His study is a free radical.

02:39:46.000 He's a human biologist, I think.

02:39:49.000 And he states that cannabis is the most powerful antioxidant, most powerful anti-aging substance on the planet, period.

02:39:58.000 That's it.

02:40:00.000 So I consider it a health supplement.

02:40:02.000 And yeah, I get high and I feel good.

02:40:03.000 It's a health supplement too.

02:40:04.000 And there's also ways you could take it that are non-psychoactive.

02:40:07.000 You know, people that take CBDs.

02:40:09.000 Or I take this stuff, Charlotte's Web Hemp Oil.

02:40:11.000 I take this everyday plus stuff.

02:40:13.000 That's a high CBD. It's fantastic.

02:40:14.000 It makes you feel good.

02:40:16.000 It alleviates aches and pains.

02:40:17.000 It's good for anxiety.

02:40:19.000 It's good for mental clarity.

02:40:20.000 It's just great for your body.

02:40:22.000 It's an essential oil for your body.

02:40:25.000 I got my left knee, the cartilage is...

02:40:28.000 Nearly gone.

02:40:30.000 The shoulders, you know, not only the supraspinatus is gone, you know, when I go for a scan, they're like, oh, you know, your shoulder is, the arthritis is really bad.

02:40:40.000 You must be in a ton of pain.

02:40:42.000 I'm like, nothing.

02:40:43.000 I don't have any pain.

02:40:45.000 I don't know if that's down to my cannabis use, but it's definitely a factor in there, you know?

02:40:51.000 I'm sure it's a factor.

02:40:52.000 Do you think also a factor is mental toughness?

02:40:54.000 Because the fact that your understanding of pain is probably way different than...

02:40:58.000 Yeah, how you perceive pain, you know, like...

02:41:01.000 You're not going to dwell on it the way you're the average person.

02:41:03.000 A little amount of pain is not a big deal.

02:41:04.000 I mean, I live with that every day from training, so...

02:41:07.000 Right, and actually look forward to it in a way.

02:41:09.000 Yeah, so probably my perception of pain is like...

02:41:13.000 For sure.

02:41:29.000 Better than all the other stuff, but I still take all the other stuff as well because I'm stacking all the odds in my favor.

02:41:35.000 Yeah, I mean, I think it's really important, guys like you that are going against the grain, explaining your position, and also you as a respected professional athlete where people will listen to you and they go, oh, well, this guy is such a straight shooter about steroids and about training and about injuries and all these other things.

02:41:52.000 He's not going to lie about this.

02:41:54.000 Well, people have just been, had this misinformation for so long, so strong in their brain.

02:42:00.000 It's like, it's hard to change.

02:42:03.000 It's hard to change that, you know?

02:42:04.000 Especially if you don't have any experience with it yourself. 1.00

02:42:07.000 Like, this fucking drug. 1.00

02:42:09.000 Like, I don't know if somebody put on Instagram, I can't believe Yates smokes weed. 1.00

02:42:13.000 I just fucking hate lazy stoners. 1.00

02:42:17.000 That's a pretty strong reaction, man. 1.00

02:42:19.000 Like, you hate somebody because they're smoking a fucking plant. 1.00

02:42:23.000 Calling you lazy is hilarious. 1.00

02:42:28.000 It's like, hey man, I need to smoke weed to stop me from doing too much fucking stuff, you know? 0.99

02:42:33.000 Just to slow me down to like a normal level. 0.95

02:42:36.000 And listen, yeah... 0.99

02:42:39.000 It can fucking slow you down and you can sit and smoke fucking weed all day and sit on the couch and watch TV and eat pizzas if you want. 0.99

02:42:48.000 But if you're smart, you use it when it's the time to use it. 1.00

02:42:54.000 Sometimes I like to smoke a little bit before I do cardio because it opens my broncos and I get a better fucking workout.

02:42:59.000 Or it's generally in the evening when I'm relaxing or if I want to do something creative like I'm writing or something, it helps me think a little bit.

02:43:09.000 But there will be times when it's appropriate and times when it's not appropriate and that's it.

02:43:14.000 No, I completely agree.

02:43:15.000 I just think that it's a lot like what we were talking about earlier with fats and sugar, that there's this misinformation that continues forever. 0.99

02:43:23.000 It's like once you get an idea in your head, oh, low fat is good, high fat is bad, and then somewhere along the line you realize that that's bullshit. 0.96

02:43:32.000 You might realize it. 0.99

02:43:33.000 You might do the research.

02:43:34.000 You might go into the article and then look at the studies and go, wow, this is insane, and how did this happen?

02:43:39.000 And go into the New York Times article about the sugar industry bribing the But once you get to a certain point in time, you realize, like, most people are not going to do all this.

02:43:50.000 They're not going to look into this.

02:43:51.000 They're not going to look...

02:43:52.000 So, most people are going to hear what they heard when they were little. 1.00

02:43:56.000 Marijuana is for losers. 0.99

02:43:57.000 Marijuana makes you lazy. 1.00

02:43:58.000 You're going to be a lazy stoner. 0.98

02:44:00.000 I don't want to be that. 0.99

02:44:01.000 Marijuana's bad.

02:44:02.000 Like Jeff Sessions. 1.00

02:44:03.000 The fucking... 1.00

02:44:04.000 The guy's on record saying, good people do not smoke marijuana. 1.00

02:44:09.000 Dude, you're talking about millions of people.

02:44:11.000 You're saying none of them are good people? 0.99

02:44:13.000 You know how fucking crazy that is? 0.91

02:44:14.000 I think the people that smoke marijuana are generally nicer, kinder, more thoughtful people, and realize that in some way we're all connected. 0.99

02:44:25.000 We're not fucking independent. 0.83

02:44:29.000 How's that a bad thing? 0.99

02:44:31.000 Because he doesn't smoke pot.

02:44:32.000 That's the problem. 0.99

02:44:33.000 Well, we need to fucking hold him down and make him smoke pot. 1.00

02:44:35.000 That's what we need to do. 0.99

02:44:36.000 But he'll freak out.

02:44:38.000 Apparently, Joey Diaz gave Pauly Shore some stars of death on his podcast, and now Pauly won't release the podcast.

02:44:44.000 He's like, hide it! 0.53

02:44:44.000 Burn it! 0.53

02:44:45.000 Burn it with fire! 1.00

02:44:46.000 Kill it like a demon. 1.00

02:44:49.000 I mean, cannabis is so good that when you smoke it, Which is full of fucking tar and carcinogens and everything. 1.00

02:44:58.000 You smoke it into your lungs. 0.98

02:44:59.000 It doesn't even damage your lungs.

02:45:01.000 Yeah, I think it's supposed to be a different type of smoke, though.

02:45:04.000 Like, the smoke that you get, it's probably harsh.

02:45:07.000 It's still smoke, though.

02:45:09.000 Yeah, but the properties of it don't have the same... 0.64

02:45:12.000 The issue apparently with tobacco in particular, just regular tobacco, if you're smoking a regular rolled cigarette of hand-rolled tobacco, just pure tobacco, no other bullshit ingredients, is not as bad for you as a cigarette,

02:45:27.000 but still bad for you. 0.81

02:45:28.000 Cigarettes got a ton of chemicals in there, that's why.

02:45:29.000 Hundreds of chemicals.

02:45:31.000 By the way, approved by our government.

02:45:33.000 They're like, yeah, pour it in there.

02:45:34.000 What's it going to do?

02:45:35.000 The government says it's good, it must be good, man.

02:45:36.000 It's going to get people addicted, throw it in there.

02:45:39.000 Governments.

02:45:39.000 Govern what?

02:45:41.000 Governments.

02:45:41.000 Ment is your mind.

02:45:43.000 But marijuana smoke has been shown to be an expectorant, actually can clear the lungs of certain issues, it dilates...

02:45:50.000 It dilates the bronch holes as opposed to the back I was closing them up all the time.

02:45:55.000 I don't know if you're familiar with a study that was done here at UCLA, I believe.

02:45:59.000 A guy called Donald Tashkin, he did it over 20 years.

02:46:03.000 It was a properly funded study.

02:46:06.000 Why was it properly funded?

02:46:07.000 Because it was funded to look for negative results.

02:46:10.000 So the purpose of this study was to prove that smoking cannabis damages your lungs, just like cigarettes, right?

02:46:16.000 So they followed three groups over 20 years.

02:46:19.000 Cigarette smokers only, or tobacco.

02:46:23.000 Marijuana together and marijuana only.

02:46:26.000 And the tobacco smokers over 20 years, of course, loss of lung function, a lot of cancers, all the stuff we already know.

02:46:34.000 The middle group was way less.

02:46:36.000 And the marijuana group, smoker, like daily smoking over 20 years, was no increased cancer.

02:46:45.000 There was no loss of lung function.

02:46:47.000 In fact, slight increase in lung function as compared to non-smokers.

02:46:54.000 Well, they're exercising, taking big toast.

02:46:57.000 Yeah, that's what he guessed, because you're taking it.

02:47:00.000 But not only that...

02:47:02.000 Because the cannabis is dilating the bronchus all the time, if you keep dilating it, keep dilating it, keep dilating it, it's going to get more, you know, it's going to get more functional.

02:47:10.000 Well, it makes sense.

02:47:11.000 I mean, it's counterintuitive to a lot of people that think that it's negative, that it's bad for you.

02:47:15.000 So I just see it as a super health supplement.

02:47:18.000 I don't see anything negative.

02:47:19.000 I don't see it as a drug.

02:47:21.000 It's just a plant.

02:47:22.000 And yeah, you get high and you feel good.

02:47:25.000 And you laugh. 1.00

02:47:26.000 It's silly shit. 1.00

02:47:28.000 It's got to be good for you, right? 1.00

02:47:30.000 I agree.

02:47:31.000 And I think that people are starting to understand that more now than when we were kids, for sure.

02:47:35.000 Yeah.

02:47:36.000 I used to smoke when I was a teenager.

02:47:38.000 And in England, we mix it with tobacco.

02:47:40.000 That's just, you know, until I came here, I didn't know, like, people smoke it pure.

02:47:44.000 I don't mix with tobacco now because I realize the weed is good and tobacco is bad.

02:47:48.000 Before, I didn't know.

02:47:49.000 Both probably bad for you. 0.99

02:47:50.000 I don't give a shit, you know? 0.99

02:47:52.000 Yeah, how did that get started in England? 0.99

02:47:54.000 Because every time I've been over to England, they do that too.

02:47:56.000 They're like, do you mix your weed with tobacco?

02:47:57.000 I was like, what?

02:47:58.000 Yeah, I don't know, man.

02:47:59.000 It was always done that way when I grew up.

02:48:04.000 I grew up in Birmingham.

02:48:05.000 There's a ton of Jamaicans, you know?

02:48:07.000 So the Jamaicans were the guys that We brought the weed in and stuff like that. 1.00

02:48:11.000 But even they used to mix with tobacco.

02:48:12.000 And a lot of people smoke hash.

02:48:14.000 So hash, you've got to mix it with something, right?

02:48:17.000 So people mix it with tobacco.

02:48:19.000 But I think last time I smoked tobacco was probably like eight, nine years ago when I became educated.

02:48:25.000 And I was like, wow, this...

02:48:27.000 Cannabis is really good on its own.

02:48:28.000 A lot of people in America, they take a cigar, they take out the tobacco, they put the weed in, and they make a blunt out of it, but you're taking in tobacco and the pot too, and it gives you this weird high.

02:48:40.000 Yeah, because you're getting that nicotine buzz, like head buzz.

02:48:45.000 But you're also inhaling in a way that you don't do with cigars.

02:48:48.000 Yeah.

02:48:49.000 You don't usually inhale.

02:48:49.000 A cigar, you puff it out, right?

02:48:51.000 Yeah.

02:48:51.000 You get the tobacco.

02:48:52.000 It gets into your body, from your mouth.

02:48:55.000 But you don't really inhale deep into the lungs.

02:48:57.000 I like to use the hemp papers and also a vaporized extract as well.

02:49:02.000 Yeah.

02:49:02.000 Like dabbing, they call it here.

02:49:04.000 Right.

02:49:05.000 So I do that.

02:49:06.000 I don't know.

02:49:07.000 I find it's a bit different between smoking weed and dabbing the extract.

02:49:12.000 Smoking weed, I find it a bit more relaxing.

02:49:15.000 Dabbing the extract is like, I'll do that before I go on a bike ride or do cardio or something, and I'm like, whoa!

02:49:21.000 Yeah?

02:49:23.000 Ready to roll, man.

02:49:24.000 You don't get tired.

02:49:25.000 It freaks you out, too.

02:49:25.000 Literally, you don't get tired.

02:49:26.000 I know, right?

02:49:27.000 Isn't it amazing?

02:49:28.000 You can, you know, whatever you're doing, running.

02:49:31.000 First of all, it's dilating your bronchial, so you can deliver more oxygen.

02:49:35.000 But I think also it's the mental thing.

02:49:37.000 They like getting that...

02:49:38.000 Zone.

02:49:39.000 And perceived pain is less.

02:49:42.000 Discomfort is less.

02:49:44.000 So you just keep going.

02:49:46.000 Yeah.

02:49:47.000 The guys in Brazil, they all smoke before they do jiu-jitsu.

02:49:50.000 Oh, yeah.

02:49:51.000 It helps to be relaxed, right, when you're doing that.

02:49:53.000 You don't want to be all tense all the time.

02:49:54.000 Not just relaxed, but also singularly focused.

02:49:57.000 Focused, yeah.

02:49:58.000 That's America, too.

02:49:59.000 A giant percentage of people smoke pop before they do jiu-jitsu.

02:50:02.000 Yeah.

02:50:03.000 Yeah, it's a big, big thing here.

02:50:05.000 Yeah, bodybuilding as well.

02:50:06.000 Really?

02:50:06.000 I mean, I'm the only one that talks about it because all those guys are, like, scared, like, it's going to be viewed negatively or their sponsors are going to, like, you know, drop them or something like that.

02:50:17.000 Yeah, that's a problem, right?

02:50:18.000 Well, I can tell you, like, half the guys on the Olympus stage, they're all stoners.

02:50:22.000 Because, you know, it helps you relax after training.

02:50:24.000 You can't drink, right?

02:50:26.000 You know, because of calories and if you drink the next day, you're not going to perform so well. 0.87

02:50:30.000 I mean, you can get totally fucking high tonight and you can go in the gym tomorrow morning. 0.90

02:50:36.000 100%. 0.99

02:50:37.000 Zero negative effect.

02:50:38.000 Right.

02:50:38.000 Zero.

02:50:39.000 Do you remember the Arnold?

02:50:40.000 I'm sure you do.

02:50:41.000 Arnold is numero uno.

02:50:43.000 Yeah, there he is.

02:50:44.000 Token on a little one there.

02:50:46.000 I mean, that was, people were like, what is he doing back then?

02:50:50.000 Yeah.

02:50:50.000 It was almost like he was getting drunk or something like that.

02:50:53.000 Yeah.

02:50:54.000 Yeah.

02:50:55.000 People didn't even think about it.

02:50:57.000 And he was the only one.

02:50:58.000 He wasn't, like, passing it around to other people.

02:51:01.000 He was the only one on camera smoking.

02:51:03.000 Yeah.

02:51:03.000 The other guys were probably scared to smoke it when they're not on camera, you know?

02:51:06.000 Yeah.

02:51:07.000 Well, it's weird.

02:51:08.000 But yeah, it's still viewed negatively, you know?

02:51:10.000 Like, an athlete saying he smokes marijuana, he's risking maybe losing his sponsorship and... 0.99

02:51:19.000 I don't give a shit. 0.99

02:51:20.000 I don't have sponsors. 0.99

02:51:21.000 I'm independent, so I'm a bit more free to speak out.

02:51:24.000 Well, the crazy thing to me was the NFL. The NFL saying that these guys can't smoke pot and they suspend them for smoking pot.

02:51:32.000 Meanwhile, it's okay to run full speed at each other and smash into each other.

02:51:38.000 And the massive amount of damage that's doing, that's not a problem.

02:51:44.000 Well, maybe the cannabis would actually help them with the brain injuries because a lot of studies, you know, with Alzheimer's and stuff like that, it's very protective on the brain.

02:51:53.000 So maybe it could have helped them, if anything.

02:51:56.000 It definitely wouldn't harm them.

02:51:58.000 And even if it's just CBD oil, it's a neuroprotectant, you know, cannabinoids.

02:52:03.000 Yeah.

02:52:03.000 Yeah, I mean, we're living in an age where information is leaking out there and people understand things more today than they ever did before, but there's still a massive amount of ignorance that you have to combat.

02:52:13.000 But it's, you know, it's ahead of 10 years ago, right?

02:52:17.000 And I live in Europe, I live in Spain now, and in Spain it's not legal, but it's legal to grow in your house for your own use.

02:52:30.000 It's legal to smoke in your house for your own use.

02:52:33.000 So what's happened is these collectors have been created.

02:52:38.000 So, alright, so I can smoke in my own private residence and I can grow whatever, let's say three plants for myself, arguably.

02:52:45.000 So what if there's a hundred of us now in this collective, in this club?

02:52:49.000 So now we can grow 300 plants.

02:52:52.000 So that's how it is.

02:52:53.000 It's supposed to be non-profit organizations.

02:52:55.000 So when you go and you buy your weed, you're not technically buying your weed, you're contributing to the upkeep of the collective.

02:53:03.000 That makes sense.

02:53:04.000 So that's how it works there.

02:53:05.000 And then in Holland, it's tolerated, they call it.

02:53:12.000 Technically, it's not legal.

02:53:13.000 It's tolerated so they can sell in the coffee shops there and whatever in Amsterdam.

02:53:18.000 So those two countries are a little bit ahead, but everywhere else is still not legal.

02:53:24.000 Like in the UK, where I come from, it's not legal.

02:53:27.000 But the police have already stated they're going to arrest people for smoking weed because they're considered a waste of their time.

02:53:35.000 So any major city in England, you go walk down the street, you can smell weed.

02:53:39.000 People just walk down the street and smoke weed.

02:53:41.000 If the police are there, they might say, hey, you know, come on, put that out.

02:53:45.000 But that's as far as it goes.

02:53:47.000 So technically it's still illegal, but it's kind of like, you know, the police are not, they don't care about it unless you're selling it.

02:53:53.000 I think Canada is set to essentially legalize it nationwide.

02:53:57.000 I think that's the most recent revelation from Canada.

02:54:02.000 They're essentially ready to just...

02:54:03.000 Canada's always been a pretty good weed country, right?

02:54:06.000 Yeah.

02:54:06.000 Well, Vancouver in particular.

02:54:08.000 There's a great documentary about the marijuana industry and its impact on Vancouver.

02:54:12.000 It's called The Union.

02:54:14.000 Fantastic documentary just showing how ridiculous it is and how inexorably tied marijuana is to their entire economy in Vancouver.

02:54:23.000 The money that comes in from marijuana is just a gigantic portion of their economy and it's all this underground...

02:54:30.000 That's why, you know, Colorado is setting such an example of making so much money. 0.97

02:54:34.000 Like, gotta be other states looking at it like, oh, I think fucking Detroit should get on that train. 1.00

02:54:41.000 Fuck yeah! 1.00

02:54:42.000 Yeah, Detroit's a mess, right? 0.99

02:54:43.000 And coming back with, like, handmade stuff, there's a bunch of things like different industries and different, you know, small businesses are starting to emerge in Detroit that are kind of very promising.

02:54:56.000 But yeah, that would be a huge factor.

02:54:58.000 Yeah, there's a huge industry out there.

02:55:00.000 Not just growing all the other...

02:55:03.000 I come here and it's like I'm a kid in a candy shop, you know?

02:55:06.000 Right.

02:55:06.000 You got chocolate and it's like...

02:55:09.000 Tells you how much THC is in each square.

02:55:12.000 We got breast spray, man.

02:55:14.000 You got butter, you got cakes, you got everything, man.

02:55:17.000 You know, like...

02:55:18.000 Yeah.

02:55:19.000 Gotta be careful with those cakes, though.

02:55:21.000 Yeah, well, edibles...

02:55:22.000 I always tell people be careful with edibles because...

02:55:25.000 If you're smoking a joint and you take a couple of puffs, it's going to hit you pretty much immediately to your brain.

02:55:32.000 So you're going to feel it and you're going to decide whether you want to smoke some more or not.

02:55:35.000 Or maybe you want to just put it down, right?

02:55:37.000 And chill.

02:55:39.000 But when you eat it, it's going to take 45 minutes to an hour to hit your system and you don't know what How strong that's going to be. 0.98

02:55:47.000 And if it's too strong, which most of the time it is, if you're not experienced, then you're on that fucking ride and you can't get off for hours. 0.97

02:55:57.000 And it can be pretty unpleasant. 0.98

02:55:58.000 I mean, like too much THC for somebody that's not used to it.

02:56:01.000 You can feel very paranoid, very uncomfortable.

02:56:04.000 You can feel nauseous.

02:56:06.000 You might vomit.

02:56:07.000 You're going to get low blood sugar.

02:56:09.000 All this stuff.

02:56:10.000 It's not going to be a nice experience.

02:56:11.000 And probably then you're going to have a negative view of cannabis. 1.00

02:56:14.000 Like, fuck that shit. 1.00

02:56:15.000 I'm not going anywhere near that again. 1.00

02:56:19.000 So unless you're experienced, I would just say stay away from edibles. 0.99

02:56:23.000 Just have a small piece and wait a fucking hour. 0.99

02:56:26.000 Don't be tempted to like, oh, I don't feel anything. 1.00

02:56:28.000 I'll take another one. 1.00

02:56:30.000 Then you're going to be fucked. 1.00

02:56:31.000 That's great advice. 1.00

02:56:32.000 Go step gingerly.

02:56:34.000 Yeah, go very slowly on edibles because it takes time to digest it, time to get in the bloodstream, and time to feel it.

02:56:41.000 So most people will eat some and say...

02:56:44.000 I don't feel anything.

02:56:45.000 I'll have another one.

02:56:46.000 And then, boom.

02:56:48.000 I've said it happen so many times.

02:56:51.000 Then it's too late.

02:56:52.000 Yeah, and it's not going to be over in five minutes.

02:56:53.000 You're going to have hours of that.

02:56:56.000 And then they're just going to say, that cannabis stuff is bad.

02:57:00.000 It's horrible.

02:57:01.000 But you're fine.

02:57:01.000 That's the beautiful thing.

02:57:02.000 Even after a horrendous, terrifying ride.

02:57:05.000 Nothing bad can happen to you physically.

02:57:07.000 You might vomit.

02:57:08.000 It's like the worst thing that can happen.

02:57:11.000 But you've got to be careful because I read the other day, right, that there is a level at which cannabis can kill you.

02:57:20.000 So you've got to be careful that you don't smoke 628 kilos of cannabis in 15 minutes.

02:57:27.000 Because if you do that, that could be toxic.

02:57:29.000 That could be lethal.

02:57:30.000 Someone out there is going to try to prove you wrong. 0.99

02:57:32.000 Yeah, 1.5 fucking tons in 15 minutes. 0.98

02:57:35.000 If you're going to handle that, good luck to you. 0.99

02:57:36.000 I think that's actually the LD50, too, which means lethal dose for 50% of the population.

02:57:42.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:57:42.000 And 50% of the population are most definitely pussies. 1.00

02:57:45.000 So you'd probably survive that anyway. 1.00

02:57:47.000 I mean, I couldn't smoke a fucking... 0.99

02:57:50.000 I don't know. 0.99

02:57:51.000 In 15 minutes?

02:57:52.000 How much could you smoke?

02:57:53.000 Like 5 grams or something?

02:57:55.000 Yeah.

02:57:56.000 I don't know.

02:57:56.000 In a bong, you could do more than that.

02:57:58.000 In a vaporizer, you can get pretty deep.

02:58:00.000 But you're not going to get anywhere near 628. I don't know where they came with 628. It's theoretical.

02:58:07.000 627 or 629. I don't know.

02:58:10.000 It's theoretical anyway because no one's ever died from it.

02:58:13.000 No one's ever died from it.

02:58:14.000 So like...

02:58:16.000 What other substance can you not die from?

02:58:19.000 Even water.

02:58:20.000 If you have too much water, you drown. 0.98

02:58:23.000 This is a pretty harmless fucking substance if there's no feasible toxic level. 0.99

02:58:29.000 Alright, 628 kilos, I'm taking the piss. 0.99

02:58:32.000 I couldn't smoke that in my lifetime.

02:58:35.000 How often do you smoke pot?

02:58:36.000 Every day.

02:58:38.000 Every day, man.

02:58:39.000 Every day.

02:58:40.000 Take my vitamin C every day as well.

02:58:42.000 Fish oils, resveratrol, like all the antioxidants.

02:58:46.000 It's a daily thing, man.

02:58:48.000 I go sometimes with not smoking for a week or two just because I want to have the discipline to say I don't need to do this every day, but I fucking like to do it every day.

02:59:00.000 So why not? 0.76

02:59:02.000 I hear you, man. 0.79

02:59:04.000 I don't get up in the morning and smoke when I got shit to do because it might not help me do that stuff. 0.90

02:59:09.000 But if I'm working out or if I'm going to lie on a beach or I'm going up the mountains, yeah, I'll take a joint with me. 0.84

02:59:14.000 Why not?

02:59:16.000 It just enhances everything.

02:59:18.000 It enhances your experience, enhances food, enhances sex, enhances music.

02:59:25.000 You're preaching to the choir, man.

02:59:27.000 Yeah, I know.

02:59:27.000 I know you know.

02:59:28.000 Other people are listening.

02:59:30.000 I know.

02:59:30.000 I'm saying I'm with you.

02:59:31.000 I'm saying I'm with you.

02:59:32.000 Yeah.

02:59:33.000 No, I mean, I couldn't agree more.

02:59:35.000 Listen, man, we just did three hours.

02:59:37.000 Wow.

02:59:37.000 Isn't that crazy?

02:59:37.000 That fucking went quick, right?

02:59:38.000 Like that. 1.00

02:59:39.000 Yeah.

02:59:40.000 I would have said that's like an hour and a half or something. 0.98

02:59:42.000 Anything else to say to the people before we wrap this bitch up? 1.00

02:59:46.000 I hate to be the guy that goes on chat shows and promotes things, but I'm going to have to do this.

02:59:51.000 Please do.

02:59:52.000 Yeah.

02:59:53.000 I'm going to be in Vegas on Saturday, and we've got a thing called Super League.

02:59:58.000 What's the date, actual date?

03:00:00.000 Saturday is 29th.

03:00:01.000 Yeah, I'm going to be in Vegas.

03:00:03.000 We've got a competition called Super League, and this is for bodybuilders slash strength athletes, and it's somewhat functional because, you know, You get a bodybuilder on stage and the general public look at that and they say, 0.99

03:00:19.000 what the fuck is this? 0.62

03:00:20.000 This is like strange and maybe a product of just taking drugs and they don't appreciate the work that goes into that and how strong and athletic some of these guys can be. 0.99

03:00:29.000 So this competition has two rounds.

03:00:33.000 The first round is lifting.

03:00:34.000 So you get judged on eight different exercises.

03:00:36.000 You score a maximum of a 12-rep set.

03:00:41.000 So there's that, and then there's a physique round, but it's done by a computer.

03:00:46.000 So it scans various areas of your body and gives you a score on that.

03:00:52.000 It sounds a bit complex, but if you want to go on Super League Live, it's got to explain everything.

03:00:56.000 How long have you been doing this for?

03:00:58.000 This is going to be the first one. 0.99

03:01:00.000 And we weren't sure what reaction we get with the first one, but it's been off the fucking hook. 0.95

03:01:06.000 And I think we're going to get a new breed of athletes that are maybe not purely... 0.97

03:01:11.000 physique bodybuilders as like the Mr. Olympia.

03:01:14.000 We've got guys coming from powerlifting.

03:01:16.000 We've got guys coming from bodybuilding. 0.98

03:01:18.000 There's a lot of guys out there in the gyms around the world that are fucking athletic, strong, freaky guys and girls. 0.82

03:01:24.000 We've got both categories that maybe don't want to compete in a bodybuilding competition for various reasons. 0.94

03:01:29.000 Or they do want to compete in a bodybuilding competition and they want something alternative to do.

03:01:35.000 We've got a competition between Team LA and Team Atlanta.

03:01:47.000 Super League Live and the contest is in the City Athletic Club gym in Vegas, which is the biggest gym in Vegas.

03:01:56.000 Okay, and so the website for it would be?

03:01:58.000 Super League Live or superleague.live, I'm not sure.

03:02:02.000 Super League Live.

03:02:03.000 Super League Live.

03:02:06.000 I'm going to be there Sunday and a lot of other people from the sport.

03:02:11.000 I'll invite Joe Rogan if you've got spare time.

03:02:13.000 I'm actually going to be at the UFC Saturday.

03:02:15.000 It's in Anaheim in California.

03:02:18.000 So, unfortunately, it's a good card.

03:02:21.000 I'm very excited about it.

03:02:22.000 John Jones and Daniel Cormier.

03:02:24.000 Oh, great.

03:02:25.000 Is that in Vegas as well?

03:02:26.000 No, that's out here in Anaheim.

03:02:29.000 Cowboy Cerrone and Robbie Lawler.

03:02:30.000 It's a great card, actually.

03:02:31.000 It's one of the best cards of the year.

03:02:32.000 I'm just joking.

03:02:33.000 So...

03:02:36.000 Do whatever you want, folks, but Super League is going to be awesome, I'm sure.

03:02:39.000 Listen, man, it was an honor and a pleasure.

03:02:41.000 I really, really appreciate you having me.

03:02:42.000 Thanks, Joe.

03:02:42.000 Thanks for having me on.

03:02:42.000 It's been, yeah, like three hours has gone like nothing.

03:02:45.000 Like nothing. 0.94

03:02:45.000 I'm sure we could talk for fucking 24 hours, but it's time to smoke a joint or something. 0.94

03:02:49.000 I agree. 0.98

03:02:50.000 All right, everybody.

03:02:51.000 Thank you, brother.

03:02:52.000 Appreciate it.

03:02:53.000 See you guys tomorrow.

03:02:56.000 That was cool, man.

The Joe Rogan Experience - July 26, 2017

Joe Rogan Experience #989 - Dorian Yates

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Summary

Transcript