The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #1

00:00:01.000 And we're live.

00:00:11.000 So literally this morning, I had this thought.

00:00:14.000 I thought about it a bit yesterday, and this morning I thought of it.

00:00:17.000 I was like, why don't you just do it? 0.97

00:00:19.000 I said, I need to do some sort of an MMA recap show, because there's always so much shit that's happening. 0.93

00:00:27.000 I miss a lot of it. 0.92

00:00:28.000 I don't get a chance to talk to a lot of it.

00:00:30.000 I love doing it with Brendan. 0.52

00:00:32.000 He's my favorite because we get so silly.

00:00:34.000 And because he loves MMA as much as I do.

00:00:38.000 I could talk to him forever about it.

00:00:39.000 So I'm sure I'll do some of those definitely in the future with him.

00:00:43.000 He's really good at breaking down fights too, man.

00:00:46.000 He's got a skeptical eye for things and he has a great, obviously he was a high-level professional heavyweight fighter, but he also has a real good understanding of where someone is at various stages of their career.

00:00:59.000 I think that's big because fighters have like these peaks and valleys and you never know where they're at.

00:01:06.000 Fighting is a hard, hard business, and the idea that you could stay at a super high level for a long period of time, that just doesn't seem to be the case.

00:01:16.000 It seems like everybody's body starts giving out after a certain period of time.

00:01:22.000 After a certain amount of time cage fighting, your body's just giving out.

00:01:27.000 Unless you're a guy like GSP that takes all this time off, which I think was brilliant now, in retrospect, he knew what we all didn't know. 0.90

00:01:35.000 He really was in fucking amazing shape. 0.81

00:01:38.000 He really was fighting... 0.99

00:01:39.000 I don't say amazing cardio shape, because that's one...

00:01:42.000 Legit criticism that Brendan had is that he looked like he was getting tired and was pretty early in the fight.

00:01:47.000 The guy was off for four years and he's stepping right in fighting Bisping, who's the middleweight champion.

00:01:52.000 That is not easy.

00:01:54.000 That's very hard.

00:01:55.000 Bisping keeps a fast pace.

00:01:57.000 He's got amazing cardio. 0.99

00:01:58.000 He's tough as shit. 0.99

00:02:00.000 Like, there was a tall order. 0.99

00:02:02.000 To see him come back like that, but I think he recognized that the grind was too heavy on him, but he wasn't done yet.

00:02:08.000 He was only 32. I think when he retired, 32?

00:02:11.000 Is that right?

00:02:12.000 Somewhere in that range?

00:02:13.000 Comes back at 36. I'm like, wow, what are the odds he's actually going to be better than he was before or look good?

00:02:20.000 He looked fucking amazing.

00:02:22.000 He looked like a bigger, better version of the welterweight champion, George St. Pierre. 0.97

00:02:25.000 It was weird.

00:02:27.000 It was weird to see.

00:02:28.000 I mean, I don't want to say that I doubted him because I did not doubt him because I'm very open-minded and I have a deep respect for George.

00:02:34.000 I think he's amazing.

00:02:35.000 He's just a great person, a great example of, in my opinion, how a champion should carry himself.

00:02:43.000 George has always been one of my favorite examples.

00:02:45.000 Because you see him and you're like, that guy is well-spoken, he's friendly, he's genuine, and he's super open-minded in terms of like...

00:02:58.000 His willingness to listen to coaches and formulate a good game plan and always be trying out new stuff.

00:03:05.000 He spent a lot of time working with those guys in Henzo Gracie's, the Donaher Death Squad.

00:03:10.000 There was a lot of images of them training together. 0.73

00:03:13.000 If he's training with Gary Tonin and some of these fucking animals, I mean, John Donaher is a wizard, and he's done just this amazing job with Eddie Cummins and These kids that he has in New York that are these leg lock masters. 0.80

00:03:32.000 I mean, it's just Gordon Ryan. 0.99

00:03:34.000 They're just animals. 1.00

00:03:35.000 These guys are killing people. 1.00

00:03:37.000 And for George to be in the mix with those guys, he's getting down with some serious fucking strangle experts. 0.99

00:03:47.000 So for just knowing that he's training with those guys, because Eddie Cummins has been killing tournaments, Gary Tonin's been killing tournaments, Ryan's been killing tournaments, all those kids, Nicky Ryan, his brother too, they're all animals. 0.96

00:03:59.000 So Donaher has this great group of really savage jiu-jitsu players, and George is diving into that mix.

00:04:07.000 Comes to LA, he's doing boxing with Freddie Roach.

00:04:12.000 You know, he's one of the best boxing coaches in the world, Manny Pacquiao's trainer.

00:04:15.000 So he's, like, getting down with, like, real boxing trainers.

00:04:18.000 He's getting down with real jiu-jitsu coaches, and he never stopped.

00:04:21.000 He never stopped, which is just amazing.

00:04:24.000 And it's amazing that he can just jump right back in.

00:04:27.000 Dominic Cruz sent me a text message right after it was over. 0.99

00:04:29.000 He said, I told you, ring rust is bullshit. 0.99

00:04:33.000 And unfortunately, Dominic just broke his arm. 0.99

00:04:36.000 I don't know the specifics of it, but that's a huge bummer.

00:04:41.000 He's got to be chomping at the bit now to get back in there.

00:04:45.000 Now that TJ just knocked out Cody Garbrandt, he must be chomping, chomping at the bit.

00:04:51.000 So a few of the fights that went down really recently this past weekend, Pettis and Poirier. 0.96

00:04:56.000 Holy shit, what a good fight that was. 0.96

00:04:59.000 That was crazy. 1.00

00:05:00.000 That's a crazy fight.

00:05:01.000 And Dustin Poirier at 155 pounds seems like a different person.

00:05:06.000 He's just so much healthier at 155 and...

00:05:10.000 He looked awesome in the Joe Duffy fight, too.

00:05:12.000 And this fight was a big, big win for him, though.

00:05:14.000 Former champion in Pettis, guy who was a champion of Strikeforce, too. 0.99

00:05:19.000 I mean, shit. 0.99

00:05:22.000 That's a big win, you know? 1.00

00:05:24.000 Anthony Pettis is a tough loss.

00:05:25.000 It seemed like he had broken a rib or something.

00:05:27.000 Like there was something going on.

00:05:29.000 Like when he got mounted, he had to tap.

00:05:33.000 You know, that's very unfortunate.

00:05:37.000 But Pettis just looked really good in his last fight.

00:05:40.000 Who did Pettis fight?

00:05:41.000 He fought and beat in his last fight.

00:05:45.000 Did he fight Gilbert Melendez?

00:05:48.000 Jim Miller.

00:05:49.000 That's right.

00:05:50.000 That's right.

00:05:52.000 Who did Gilbert Melendez fight?

00:05:54.000 You know what I just watched the other day?

00:05:55.000 I re-watched Gilbert Melendez.

00:05:57.000 Oh, Gilbert fought.

00:06:01.000 Who was it that kicked his legs? 1.00

00:06:04.000 God damn it. 0.99

00:06:07.000 I can't believe I'm forgetting this. 0.99

00:06:12.000 Jeremy Stephens, that's what.

00:06:13.000 Sorry Jeremy, Jesus Christ.

00:06:15.000 That was one of Jeremy Stephens' finest performances.

00:06:18.000 I forgot who did it.

00:06:19.000 There's too many fights.

00:06:20.000 I have to erase my brain data.

00:06:22.000 I gotta erase some Dan Severin footage from the 90s. 0.99

00:06:26.000 I can't though, out of respect, but I have just too many fights floating around in my fucking head. 0.97

00:06:33.000 That fight was a good fight though. 0.97

00:06:34.000 The Pettis and Poirier fight is a fight between two guys that are like legit top 10 contenders.

00:06:40.000 Like either one of them with a couple of good wins could be fighting for the title.

00:06:43.000 And maybe for Poirier that was enough to get him in there and fight for the title.

00:06:47.000 But it's like you got just a shark pool there.

00:06:50.000 Tony Ferguson is the interim champ. 0.98

00:06:52.000 Who knows what the fuck is going to happen now with Conor. 0.80

00:06:55.000 Because Conor was involved in some sort of an altercation. 0.96

00:07:00.000 With referee Mark Goddard where he jumped into the cage while the fight had not been called yet apparently.

00:07:06.000 This is Mark Goddard's interpretation of it.

00:07:10.000 And I think Conor's, he made an apology, and I think what he was basically saying was that he was angry that the referee had not stopped the fight.

00:07:19.000 First he thought the referee had stopped the fight, and then he was angry that he had not because he gets like really concerned when someone's taking a beating too much.

00:07:27.000 And he felt like this guy really was out of it and taking a beating.

00:07:31.000 I think where the confusion was, and I hope I'm not fucking this up, we'll check.

00:07:35.000 The confusion was, I think, that Mark Goddard was saying, essentially, that he had not known whether or not the bell had gone off.

00:07:44.000 He knew the bell was close, but he did not know whether it had gone off.

00:07:47.000 It was too loud in there for him to hear it.

00:07:49.000 And he was concerned, I believe, that it went off.

00:07:52.000 And so that's when he stepped in because he thought the round was over.

00:07:56.000 He was not necessarily calling the fight yet.

00:08:00.000 Then when Conor McGregor jumped in, since he hadn't already called the fight, he was in a bad situation because the fight, technically speaking, was still going on.

00:08:09.000 I hope I'm not fucking this up.

00:08:12.000 Did I fuck that up?

00:08:13.000 He made a statement on Facebook.

00:08:15.000 Yes.

00:08:16.000 And by the way, I felt the way he wrote this statement was really...

00:08:20.000 It was not just very professional.

00:08:24.000 It was very poised.

00:08:27.000 I was very impressed with it.

00:08:29.000 I don't want to read the whole thing.

00:08:30.000 But he essentially says...

00:08:32.000 The first round was progressing and then so when the guy got hurt he said he connected Charlie Ward connected with a left hand that slumped John Redman to his knees and at this exact point I could not and had not made my determination that John was either out of the contest or not in the position to intelligently defend himself.

00:08:53.000 The punch and the action that followed naturally resulted in a surge of crowd noise one that was so significant I had already made my determination that I could not audibly hear the bell sound for the end of the round.

00:09:06.000 I had made my decision to step in with the belief that the bell had indeed been sounded, which in actual fact it had not.

00:09:14.000 This is a critical fact to the ensuing proceeding.

00:09:18.000 So apparently there was a massive amount of confusion because of the noise And so it looked like a very reasonable stoppage.

00:09:30.000 See if you can find the video footage.

00:09:32.000 To me, because there's a bunch of video of the brawl itself and all the craziness that happened with it.

00:09:38.000 But it definitely seemed like, if I remember correctly, I've seen it, but last time I saw it was a couple days ago.

00:09:45.000 It looked like a really reasonable stoppage, like a smart stoppage.

00:09:50.000 Like, you see it and you go, yeah, that guy is, he's getting hurt.

00:09:53.000 They should stop this. 0.92

00:09:55.000 And then I think Conor just assumed when he stepped in, which you would, especially if it's that fucking loud, you assume there's no bell. 0.58

00:10:04.000 And Mark Goddard steps in. 0.97

00:10:08.000 See, Conor runs in and he tackles him to the ground.

00:10:12.000 And then, but there's already corner men in there.

00:10:15.000 And so these guys are hugging, and Mark Goddard is trying to get control of the octagon.

00:10:21.000 And so Connor comes at him and pushes him, and he's yelling at him.

00:10:27.000 This is just a terrible scene.

00:10:30.000 Terrible scene.

00:10:31.000 You know, and I'm sure Connor, if he could take it back, would take it back, because I'm sure he, you know, realized that this is a disaster.

00:10:39.000 And he even apologized.

00:10:43.000 You know, you can't do that.

00:10:45.000 You can't run in.

00:10:46.000 You've got to be sure that the referees stop the fight.

00:10:52.000 And, you know, I mean, they have to have control of the octagon.

00:10:55.000 Otherwise, anything can happen, right?

00:10:57.000 Anybody can get it in at any time.

00:10:58.000 Not just a friend, but somebody who wants to hurt you.

00:11:01.000 So they don't know what...

00:11:03.000 I mean, obviously they knew that Conor was probably coming in to congratulate his friend.

00:11:08.000 But you can't make them give up the rules.

00:11:13.000 Like, the rules are in place for a very good reason.

00:11:15.000 It's to protect the athletes.

00:11:17.000 People get super emotional about fights.

00:11:19.000 And there's many times I would believe that if they weren't, like, very...

00:11:25.000 Very stringent in how they allow the athletes to behave, like have a really stringent set of rules.

00:11:30.000 If they didn't do that, those guys would fight a lot.

00:11:34.000 I mean, it would be a lot of chaos. 0.73

00:11:36.000 People would climb into the ring and beat the shit out of each other.

00:11:38.000 We've obviously had a few incidents where corners argued with each other, but relatively speaking, when you think about how many fights take place, it's a very small number.

00:11:48.000 And it's one of the reasons why is because we have pretty clear rules.

00:11:52.000 You have to listen to the referee at all times.

00:11:54.000 It's real simple.

00:11:56.000 There's a time where the cage is shut and the referee is in there and that guy has control of that until he brings somebody in.

00:12:02.000 And he has to have control over it.

00:12:04.000 If he calls the fight, then he calls time and then he brings the doctors in or whatever he wants to do or he stops the fight.

00:12:13.000 It's got to entirely be his call.

00:12:17.000 And I see that Conor thought it was over.

00:12:19.000 And he's probably like completely caught in the moment. 0.97

00:12:21.000 He's fucking happy for his friend. 0.98

00:12:23.000 He dives on his friend. 0.99

00:12:25.000 They're celebrating.

00:12:26.000 He's thinking that there's going to be a bunch of people in there any second now.

00:12:29.000 Because the fight's over.

00:12:30.000 He's thinking they're going to open it up and Bruce Buffer's going to step in.

00:12:35.000 But no.

00:12:37.000 It would have been Bruce Buffer.

00:12:38.000 It was another organization, but you know what I'm saying.

00:12:40.000 Whoever their Bruce Buffer is.

00:12:42.000 But then, somewhere along the line, he realized the fight hadn't been stopped.

00:12:47.000 And then I think he got very upset, he said, because he has seen people take unnecessary punishment.

00:12:54.000 And he felt like that guy was done.

00:12:56.000 And he felt like to not stop the fight right then would be a terrible thing.

00:13:02.000 And I totally see his point of view.

00:13:03.000 That makes sense too.

00:13:05.000 That makes sense too.

00:13:06.000 You can't push officials.

00:13:10.000 You can't jump in when you're not supposed to be there.

00:13:12.000 So mistakes were made.

00:13:15.000 But I don't know what you do about something like that. 0.99

00:13:19.000 I don't know if they have standard punishments for shit like that. 0.97

00:13:23.000 But it'd be a shame if that instance... 0.99

00:13:28.000 Took a Conner fight away from the fans.

00:13:31.000 I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished.

00:13:32.000 I would just say if he was punished, it would be a shame.

00:13:36.000 I mean, I guess you have to set a precedent.

00:13:37.000 I don't know how that works.

00:13:41.000 You ever shove an official, Jamie?

00:13:43.000 No, I've definitely yelled at him, though.

00:13:45.000 Playing basketball?

00:13:46.000 Yeah, everybody yells, right?

00:13:47.000 Fighters, you can talk to an official, right?

00:13:49.000 Yeah, man, they're real strict about that.

00:13:51.000 Like, when people do, they get very upset.

00:13:53.000 You definitely can't put your hands on them. 0.99

00:13:55.000 You know, Roy Nelson just was pissed off once at a late stoppage, and he kicked big John McCarthy in the butt. 0.93

00:14:05.000 But it was like the most gentle kick ever. 0.79

00:14:07.000 I mean, he didn't kick him like he was trying to hurt him. 0.95

00:14:10.000 You know, he like touched his foot on his butt. 0.88

00:14:13.000 I mean, it was nothing. 0.98

00:14:14.000 And Big John said it was nothing.

00:14:16.000 But he shouldn't have touched him.

00:14:18.000 That's all it is.

00:14:19.000 It's just there's rules.

00:14:20.000 And you get crazy.

00:14:21.000 And it was the same thing, in fact.

00:14:24.000 Big Roy was pissed that he let him take so much punishment.

00:14:31.000 Something similar happened this year in the NBA. Steph Curry is one of the top players.

00:14:36.000 He's known for throwing his mouthpiece when he gets pissed.

00:14:39.000 He always takes his mouthpiece out a lot when play is not in action.

00:14:42.000 He does?

00:14:43.000 For whatever reason.

00:14:45.000 Something happened in the NBA Finals last year.

00:14:46.000 He turned around and tried to throw it at the scorer's table and it hit a fan.

00:14:53.000 That's so nasty.

00:14:54.000 It's definitely really gross. 0.96

00:14:56.000 It's just like a UFC fighter throwing it into the crowd like some nasty mouthpiece. 0.65

00:15:00.000 Well, that's some fighters.

00:15:01.000 Oh, no.

00:15:02.000 Some people would die for a UFC fighter's mouthpiece.

00:15:05.000 But if he's throwing it at a referee, that's like spitting in his face.

00:15:09.000 Well, it bounced off the ground and hit him, I think, is what happened here.

00:15:12.000 I don't know if he even meant to throw it at him, but he shouldn't be throwing his mouthpiece when he's pissed.

00:15:18.000 But he didn't get suspended, which a lot of people were saying, like...

00:15:21.000 What do you think?

00:15:22.000 Early in the year, he should have at least got a three or four game suspension, not just a $50,000 fine, which is a tenth of what he makes that day, probably.

00:15:30.000 I don't think anything would happen to you if you're a fighter and you threw your mouthpiece at the ground in front of a referee.

00:15:35.000 I think because the UFC is so violent that that would be taken as like, oh, come on, throw the mouthpiece on the ground.

00:15:43.000 But I think in basketball, it's probably a pretty big deal, right?

00:15:46.000 It's definitely different.

00:15:47.000 I mean, you can't spit your gum at them.

00:15:48.000 No.

00:15:49.000 Well, you can't spit at people, man.

00:15:51.000 Well, that's different.

00:15:52.000 I mean, we already take off your headband.

00:15:53.000 This is not what you're doing.

00:15:53.000 You're spitting at people.

00:15:55.000 You're just throwing it with your hand. 1.00

00:15:56.000 That thing's all slobbery and shit. 1.00

00:15:58.000 You know what the fuck you're doing. 1.00

00:15:59.000 It's so gross anyway with all the hands and sweat and blood and everything just going around the court. 1.00

00:16:03.000 Is it dissatisfying, though, to take out your mouthpiece filled with spit and hit someone in the face with it as it is to spit in their face?

00:16:11.000 Never done either, to be honest with you, but I don't know.

00:16:14.000 The spit in the face thing is a dangerous move.

00:16:16.000 Hawk a big loogie.

00:16:17.000 Yeah, because you've got to be close.

00:16:20.000 You've got to be real close to spit.

00:16:22.000 It's like a I'm ready for violence move. 0.82

00:16:25.000 You spit in someone's face.

00:16:27.000 That's not just an insult.

00:16:28.000 It's like the only way to respond to that insult is something more intense.

00:16:33.000 There's always a moment when someone spits in someone's face where there's this terrifying moment of anything could happen here.

00:16:40.000 Like, how does this go?

00:16:41.000 Does this swing left or does this swing right?

00:16:43.000 How does this go?

00:16:46.000 But in MMA, like, that happens.

00:16:48.000 I mean, you're involved in these violent altercations.

00:16:52.000 If someone just threw their mouthpiece at the ground, like, people would barely even notice it, you know?

00:16:56.000 You couldn't do it at a referee, like, obviously at a referee.

00:17:00.000 They would warn you or something like that.

00:17:02.000 Maybe I'm wrong.

00:17:03.000 Could you throw a shadow punch or shadow kick and be like, I was never going to hit him.

00:17:06.000 I wasn't even close.

00:17:07.000 No, no, no, no, no.

00:17:09.000 That's threatening.

00:17:10.000 That's threatening.

00:17:11.000 You know, if you fake kick, even if you were five foot away from someone, you're kind of threatening.

00:17:17.000 At the very least, you're doing something that's totally unnecessary.

00:17:21.000 Why would you do that?

00:17:23.000 You're doing that to elicit some sort of response from the referee.

00:17:27.000 You're trying to get them scared.

00:17:30.000 I'm trying to get him to realize that he's in the cage with a trained killer.

00:17:33.000 You know?

00:17:34.000 I mean, seriously.

00:17:35.000 If you're in the cage and Francis Ngannou's mad at you, and you're the referee! 0.99

00:17:43.000 What a fucking terrifying position you'd be in. 0.99

00:17:45.000 That guy is a smasher. 1.00

00:17:47.000 He's just a super athlete smasher.

00:17:49.000 Has it ever happened in the history of MMA, like in a big fight in a cage, that a fighter's gotten pissed and taken a swing?

00:17:55.000 I've seen it happen in boxing, I think, you know, a few times.

00:17:57.000 Just doesn't happen often, obviously, but...

00:17:59.000 I think to the UFC fighter's credit, I don't think anyone has ever taken a swing at a referee.

00:18:06.000 I don't think that's ever happened.

00:18:08.000 I don't think so.

00:18:10.000 That's good.

00:18:12.000 I think that if you stop and think about how many fights there are and how few even bad situations there are in between fighters, I like to think that even though it's a super intense endeavor to be fist fighting another person, male or female, for the most part there are really friendly people that do it.

00:18:39.000 For the most part, they're very, you know, they're accomplished. 0.98

00:18:44.000 And they don't have any time for bullshit. 0.99

00:18:46.000 But lately, there's been this trend, and I think it's because Conor McGregor's been so successful with it, of shit-talking to like the nth degree. 1.00

00:18:56.000 Like, who can be the biggest shit-talker? 0.99

00:18:59.000 And Kobe Covington is just going for it, baby. 1.00

00:19:03.000 He's fucking going for it. 0.98

00:19:05.000 And I gotta tell you, I don't know how I feel. 0.99

00:19:07.000 Because part of me thinks it's entertaining as fuck. 0.99

00:19:10.000 When I read some of the shit that he says, and I see some of the shit he says, like, he is just going for it. 1.00

00:19:17.000 But it's working. 1.00

00:19:18.000 See, here's the thing, and this is one of the things that he said.

00:19:22.000 You gotta understand, like, a lot of this...

00:19:24.000 Is you're just trying to get your name out there.

00:19:27.000 You're trying to do something that makes a splash.

00:19:30.000 Even if it's a bad splash.

00:19:32.000 Even if it's like pissing off the entire country of Brazil.

00:19:36.000 He's making a splash, you know?

00:19:38.000 And I could see the point that like you shouldn't do it that way.

00:19:41.000 I get it.

00:19:41.000 I get people saying that.

00:19:42.000 What I don't get is people saying that they're not paying attention.

00:19:46.000 I'm paying attention.

00:19:47.000 I'm not encouraging it.

00:19:48.000 I'm just analyzing it from an outside perspective. 0.99

00:19:52.000 As a person who's a huge fan of the way Conor McGregor talks shit, I enjoy it. 1.00

00:19:58.000 I fucking enjoy it. 1.00

00:20:00.000 When Jeremy Stevens says something to me, he goes, who the fuck is that guy? 1.00

00:20:07.000 He's a magic man with that shit. 1.00

00:20:10.000 I think he's amazing. 1.00

00:20:11.000 His fucking timing, the things he says, he's a character. 1.00

00:20:16.000 He's a fucking character. 1.00

00:20:18.000 And he fucks people up. 1.00

00:20:20.000 There's no denying that. 1.00

00:20:22.000 Conor McGregor's a beast.

00:20:24.000 And I think probably not even in his prime.

00:20:27.000 I mean, I think...

00:20:29.000 His athletic prime might be a couple of years away. 0.99

00:20:31.000 I mean, who the fuck knows what that guy can accomplish? 0.99

00:20:34.000 But one thing that's clear is that he's changed the landscape when it comes to shit-talking. 1.00

00:20:41.000 Like, now everybody wants to be a shit-talker. 1.00

00:20:44.000 Now shit-talking is, like, it's mandatory for the gig. 1.00

00:20:48.000 You know, shit-talking has become some thing that, like, is like an art form in and of itself. 0.99

00:20:55.000 Some guys are just going for it. 0.99

00:20:57.000 So Colby apparently got into it with Fabricio Verdum. 0.99

00:21:00.000 Because one thing about Brazilians, if you talk some shit about Brazil, they will get really mad at you. 0.99

00:21:04.000 They're very proud. 1.00

00:21:06.000 They're very nationalistic.

00:21:08.000 They love Brazil. 0.99

00:21:09.000 And I don't know if that was what the argument was about, but Fabricio Verdum hit Colby Covington with a fucking boomerang. 0.98

00:21:21.000 See, the problem with that is, I don't think Fabrizio is trying to kill him, right? 0.97

00:21:26.000 But the problem with that is that's a weapon.

00:21:28.000 Like, that literally is what it is.

00:21:31.000 Like, it seems like it's goofy because it's something that we have when we're kids.

00:21:36.000 You know, it never really works.

00:21:38.000 Like, have you ever got a boomerang to come back to you?

00:21:40.000 Like, come on, man.

00:21:41.000 You can't just stay in the same spot and get that boomerang to come back to you.

00:21:44.000 Has anybody ever done that?

00:21:46.000 Can you really do that?

00:21:47.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:21:48.000 Sure, I've seen it happen, for sure.

00:21:49.000 You gotta do it up in the air or something?

00:21:51.000 It's just the way you throw it.

00:21:52.000 Yeah.

00:21:53.000 But does it go right back to you?

00:21:55.000 See if you can find a video of someone actually getting a boomerang to go right back to the same spot where you stand.

00:21:59.000 They do that?

00:22:00.000 Yeah, you can do it with a frisbee, too.

00:22:01.000 I've seen a guy do it with a crazy frisbee.

00:22:03.000 So, like, they invented it so they can kill things with it, though. 0.99

00:22:06.000 They invented it to, like, throw at birds and shit. 0.99

00:22:09.000 So this is a real weapon. 0.99

00:22:12.000 Like, you're literally...

00:22:15.000 You're literally hitting a guy in the head with a weapon.

00:22:18.000 I mean, I'm not...

00:22:20.000 Look at this guy. 1.00

00:22:21.000 That's Australian as fuck. 1.00

00:22:23.000 What's he got to say? 1.00

00:22:24.000 And the boomerang will come back.

00:22:26.000 Let me just demonstrate for you.

00:22:28.000 That guy's English.

00:22:29.000 He says boomerangs go straight out.

00:22:31.000 Oh, the dog fetches it.

00:22:34.000 He gotcha.

00:22:38.000 I believe someone probably can, but the point is it's a weapon.

00:22:42.000 So it's like Kobe got hit with a weapon.

00:22:45.000 For doom, he hit him in the head with a piece of wood.

00:22:47.000 And apparently he punched him in the face, too.

00:22:50.000 According to Colby Covington, this guy looks like he'd be really good at a boomerang.

00:22:54.000 Let me see it come back. 1.00

00:22:55.000 Oh, shit. 1.00

00:22:56.000 Look at that. 1.00

00:22:57.000 That's fucking crazy. 0.99

00:23:00.000 Oh, it flew away. 1.00

00:23:02.000 Is this bullshit, too? 0.99

00:23:03.000 It comes back to the vicinity that you're in. 1.00

00:23:06.000 Sort of like a...

00:23:07.000 I mean, I don't know.

00:23:08.000 Like, even if you sent a falcon, I don't know if it would come right back to the same GPS spot that you left it go from, but pretty, pretty close.

00:23:15.000 Yeah, how does that work?

00:23:16.000 Falcons are just, they don't know what to do? 0.89

00:23:18.000 I have no idea on that.

00:23:19.000 So this dude is like a boomerang expert.

00:23:21.000 Look at him just whipping that boomerang.

00:23:26.000 How long would you have to practice to get that good at a boomerang? 1.00

00:23:29.000 What a weird fucking weapon. 0.99

00:23:31.000 You couldn't catch it, but what a weird thing. 1.00

00:23:35.000 Someone figured out how to do that. 1.00

00:23:37.000 How smart were those goddamn people? 1.00

00:23:39.000 How many different shapes did they come up with? 1.00

00:23:43.000 Okay, if you had to guess, how long do you think the boomerang's been around?

00:23:47.000 Thousands of years, I would say.

00:23:51.000 It's got to be one of those accidents someone figured out and was like, whoa, look at that, and just threw it.

00:23:54.000 Hey, hey, hey, it comes back.

00:23:56.000 Look at that.

00:23:56.000 It comes back.

00:23:57.000 Yeah.

00:23:58.000 But do you think that there's a conventional academic view of when it was invented?

00:24:05.000 It must be, right?

00:24:06.000 No.

00:24:06.000 So you can find that.

00:24:08.000 I just heard there's one of the most popular VR games or VR experiences.

00:24:12.000 I think I showed it to you.

00:24:13.000 You've probably done it.

00:24:14.000 Called Tilt Brush.

00:24:14.000 That virtual painting experience.

00:24:17.000 I just saw yesterday a tweet that said it was started as...

00:24:21.000 The guy who made it started out to make a 3D chess game.

00:24:24.000 But a bug was found that one of the pieces was dragging light behind it or whatever.

00:24:29.000 And he's like, oh, look at that.

00:24:30.000 And now he made the most popular VR thing there was.

00:24:33.000 Based off of a bug that...

00:24:35.000 So similar, someone could just throw on a stick and be like, hey, this one comes back to you.

00:24:38.000 What can we use this for? 0.95

00:24:39.000 Right, sort of like how they invented Viagra because they were trying to come up with some blood pressure medication or some shit. 0.72

00:24:44.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:24:45.000 Like, hey, hey, hey.

00:24:46.000 No one knows when, no one knows for sure how the returning boomerang was invented.

00:24:52.000 Anyway, Colby got hit in the head with one.

00:24:56.000 I don't know how that works, man.

00:24:57.000 That seems like assault.

00:24:59.000 I mean, that's like, I know he wasn't trying to kill him.

00:25:02.000 Watch the video.

00:25:03.000 Let's see if we can watch the video.

00:25:05.000 Boomerang 25,000 to 50,000 years ago.

00:25:08.000 Wow, that's a big gap.

00:25:09.000 They're like, um...

00:25:11.000 I don't know.

00:25:13.000 He threw a bag like he just bought it or something.

00:25:15.000 I think someone might have...

00:25:16.000 Yeah, he might have bought it or someone gave it to him or something. 0.99

00:25:18.000 They give you boomerangs down there, but he's got it in the back and he just fucking whips it. 0.99

00:25:22.000 He hits him in the side of the head. 0.99

00:25:26.000 He hits him in the shoulder and the head. 1.00

00:25:28.000 And Kobe's still talking shit to him. 1.00

00:25:30.000 Do they give out boomerangs like Blaze in Hawaii? 1.00

00:25:33.000 Probably.

00:25:33.000 When you show up, they give you one?

00:25:35.000 Yeah, Colby, when he hit him with it, he's like, whoa.

00:25:40.000 Yeah.

00:25:42.000 This is crazy.

00:25:44.000 That just happened today, right?

00:25:46.000 I think so.

00:25:47.000 I just found out about it right after the last podcast was over. 1.00

00:25:54.000 And they're talking crazy shit to each other. 1.00

00:25:55.000 We don't have to broadcast the shit talking. 1.00

00:25:58.000 I find it rude and vulgar. 0.99

00:26:00.000 It's weird, man.

00:26:01.000 It's like some people like it.

00:26:02.000 Some people like the trash talking, but these two guys are obviously in different weight classes, so they're never going to fight.

00:26:08.000 But some people like...

00:26:10.000 It's like tough guy conflict that fighters have with each other.

00:26:13.000 And some people hate it.

00:26:15.000 There's some people that think that some people are martial artists, you know, and they think that this is all like offensive, that you should conduct yourself like a martial artist.

00:26:26.000 And some people have said that, you know, a lot of people like agree with it and think that this is a better path for the sport for all of us. 0.99

00:26:33.000 But there's no denying the entertainment value of being a shithead. 0.98

00:26:40.000 I mean, it's entertaining, you know? 0.99

00:26:43.000 I don't want people to fight, but I am entertained often when they do.

00:26:48.000 I think we'd all be better off if they didn't fight.

00:26:50.000 But there's something about, like, Jon Jones going, I beat you after I did cocaine.

00:26:54.000 Like, there's something about that that, yeah, it's not like...

00:26:59.000 It doesn't feel like the embodiment of the true spirit of what we would think of as martial arts being a vehicle for developing your human potential and the path of the warrior samurai and the noble poet.

00:27:11.000 You know, we have all these like Kwai Chang Kane views of what martial arts are.

00:27:15.000 But one thing that martial arts are is a psychological warfare as well.

00:27:22.000 It's undeniable that it has a big impact. 0.93

00:27:24.000 And who you're fighting, you can get emotional if a guy fucks with your head too much.

00:27:29.000 You can get to a point where you're out of character and you take chances you shouldn't take.

00:27:32.000 You're nervous beyond your ability to control because you're so worried about losing to this person that you have this big emotional investment with.

00:27:43.000 That's real.

00:27:44.000 I mean, that's one of the things that Miyamoto Musashi used when he was a sword fighter.

00:27:50.000 In the Book of Five Rings, he would talk about all the different games that he would play.

00:27:55.000 People have documented it.

00:27:57.000 Like when Musashi would have these duels, he would show up like hours late. 0.99

00:28:01.000 And let this poor fuck just freak out, worrying about a sword fight that he was going to have. 0.99

00:28:06.000 The guy's sitting there for hours and hours, then finally Musashi would show up. 1.00

00:28:10.000 And the guy would be like a nervous wreck. 1.00

00:28:12.000 And he would just fuck him up and kill him. 1.00

00:28:14.000 And he had all these tactics that he used. 1.00

00:28:19.000 And that was just one of them.

00:28:22.000 Psychological warfare is something that's always been a part of the martial arts, but some people feel like the most noble path for both warriors is just be respectful and just have no emotions on the line with this in terms of hate for each other.

00:28:40.000 Instead, just respect each other like warriors and go after it.

00:28:43.000 And there's been some amazing fights where guys took on that mentality.

00:28:47.000 That's, you know, It's an interesting thing, the way people express themselves when they're doing what I think is the most difficult athletic endeavor.

00:29:00.000 The way people get to express themselves.

00:29:03.000 Do you decide to just put on a show?

00:29:06.000 Or do you decide to be the stoic warrior, you know, who doesn't talk much and takes care of business?

00:29:11.000 It's interesting, man.

00:29:13.000 Like, we were talking about Stipe Miocic before the podcast.

00:29:17.000 I was going back and forth with Stipe.

00:29:19.000 Stipe's a fireman.

00:29:20.000 He's the heavyweight champion of the world.

00:29:23.000 And he's also a fireman.

00:29:24.000 He's the baddest man on the planet.

00:29:25.000 He's the UFC heavyweight champion of the world.

00:29:27.000 He's smashing people.

00:29:28.000 And he's also a fireman.

00:29:31.000 You know?

00:29:33.000 Like, that guy doesn't get enough love.

00:29:36.000 Like, that's the heavyweight champion of the world.

00:29:40.000 It's crazy.

00:29:42.000 It's what a weird position that guy's in, you know?

00:29:45.000 And it couldn't be nicer. 1.00

00:29:47.000 But you gotta think, what if he was like a crazy shit talker? 1.00

00:29:51.000 What if Stipe Miocic was like Colby Covington, just talking mad shit, you know? 1.00

00:29:55.000 Instead, Stipe shows up to knock people out, and he looks like he's in line to, like, take the bus to get to work. 0.99

00:30:04.000 Like, he barely looks like he's about to fight. 0.95

00:30:08.000 He has, like, the most stoic, relaxed expression before he fucks people up. 0.60

00:30:14.000 Much like Fedor did.

00:30:16.000 He's got his own sort of version of that.

00:30:20.000 One of the more amazing things about Fedor's career was he would be in the middle of a firefight, just a full-on firefight, and he never let his expression shift.

00:30:32.000 You never saw Fedor gritting his teeth and making a mean face.

00:30:38.000 Fedor didn't waste any energy.

00:30:41.000 Maybe if he made one or two mean faces in his career, I might have missed it. 0.99

00:30:45.000 But most of the time, he would be in the middle of these fucking horrific wars in Pride with, like, just dead face.

00:30:54.000 You know, I mean, he, in hindsight, especially since Kane's been injured so many times, he, in hindsight, I think has to be recognized right next to Fabrizio Verdum as the two greatest heavyweights of all time, which Kane Velasquez is right in there in that mix, too. 0.59

00:31:07.000 And if he wasn't injured so much, I would think Kane is probably the most difficult one for all of them.

00:31:14.000 He just was, when he fought Verdum, not making excuses for him, but I think he really didn't have enough of an opportunity to adapt to the Mexico City altitude, like extreme altitude, and Verdum did a very wise thing.

00:31:26.000 He got up there way early, and he lived up there, even higher than Mexico City.

00:31:31.000 He lived up, he set up his training camp.

00:31:34.000 Like, way in advance.

00:31:35.000 So he totally acclimated.

00:31:37.000 So for the first time in Kane's career, somebody had a cardio advantage over him, which was crazy.

00:31:41.000 And then on top of that, Fabrizio Verdum is just the nastiest submission artist in the history of the sport.

00:31:46.000 He tapped out Fedor Emelianenko, he tapped out Minotauro Noguera, and he tapped out Kane Velasquez.

00:31:52.000 Those three guys have to be considered top three all-time.

00:31:56.000 So top three or five all-time guys, Minotauro's tapped three of them.

00:32:02.000 Excuse me.

00:32:04.000 Fabrizio Verdun was tapped three of them.

00:32:06.000 Minotauro tapped a bunch of them, too.

00:32:08.000 You know?

00:32:10.000 Minotauro, when he tapped Mark Coleman, that was gigantic for jiu-jitsu.

00:32:14.000 To show that a guy could tap somebody off of his back that was a UFC heavyweight champion and still a murderer like Mark the Hammer Coleman.

00:32:23.000 Watching Minotauro tap him was giant.

00:32:26.000 You just gotta think of how good Verdum is.

00:32:29.000 Verdum tapped Minotauro, he tapped Kane, and he tapped Fedor. 0.99

00:32:34.000 So, for Kobe to talk shit to him, like, Jesus, dude! 0.99

00:32:40.000 I want to see the rematch between Verdum and Stipe. 0.99

00:32:43.000 I hope they can make that.

00:32:44.000 If Verdum wins his fight, he decided to take this fight on short notice.

00:32:49.000 Fairly short notice.

00:32:51.000 Martin, how do you say it?

00:32:53.000 Martin Tibura.

00:32:55.000 Who's a very promising young guy.

00:32:58.000 And he was supposed to be fighting Mark Hunt, which is going to be a crazy strikers match, I would imagine.

00:33:04.000 But Mark Hunt got pulled from the card.

00:33:06.000 There's some concern about something that he said in an interview.

00:33:12.000 He said that the UFC wanted to remove him because of his lawsuit.

00:33:19.000 And the UFC was like, look, we've already paid you $1.6 million since the lawsuit was filed.

00:33:26.000 You fought for us and made a lot of money since then.

00:33:30.000 Like, we're not trying to stop you.

00:33:32.000 I believe that's what they said.

00:33:33.000 Pretty sure.

00:33:34.000 I don't want to...

00:33:35.000 I don't want to misquote that.

00:33:37.000 But the point is, like, they decided, for whatever the reason was, to remove Mark Hunt from the card, and Fabricio moved right into it.

00:33:46.000 And it's right after he just submitted Walt Harris.

00:33:49.000 So Fabricio's still in the mix, and, like, having that quick win like that over Harris, got a nice submission.

00:33:55.000 Beautiful.

00:33:56.000 Armbar transition from the back was just nasty.

00:33:58.000 He's just so high level on the ground.

00:34:01.000 I don't think people understand or appreciate it.

00:34:03.000 He could do that to almost anybody.

00:34:05.000 The thing is, like, his level of jiu-jitsu, he was a legitimate world champion in jiu-jitsu.

00:34:13.000 He won Abu Dhabi.

00:34:15.000 I mean, Fabricio Verdum is just a straight-up killer.

00:34:19.000 His jiu-jitsu is at such a high level still. 0.98

00:34:23.000 Like, most of the heavyweights that get on the ground with him are going to be in deep fucking water. 0.94

00:34:27.000 It's just the level of jujitsu that he has is so high. 0.94

00:34:32.000 The average MMA practitioner at a high level has a really good level of jiu-jitsu.

00:34:39.000 But Fabricio Verdum is a guy that taps those guys.

00:34:43.000 That's how good he is.

00:34:45.000 If he gets anybody that's anywhere near his size on the ground that's competing in the heavyweight division, there is a huge likelihood that he has a massive jiu-jitsu advantage.

00:34:56.000 And until you've rolled with a guy who has a massive jiu-jitsu advantage, you don't realize how big the difference between him being 5% better than you, him being 10% better, him being 15%.

00:35:08.000 Fabricio's probably 20-30% better than anybody else in the division when it goes to the ground.

00:35:14.000 So even if you're good and strong and you're athletic and you're quick, he puts the smush on you.

00:35:19.000 You stay smushed, man.

00:35:21.000 The Brandon Vera fight is a great example of that. 1.00

00:35:24.000 Brandon Vera is a bad motherfucker. 0.99

00:35:26.000 He's good at the ground. 1.00

00:35:28.000 He knows how to fight.

00:35:28.000 He knows how to submit.

00:35:29.000 He knows how to kickbox.

00:35:31.000 He was on fire at the time, but Fabricio put the smush down on him.

00:35:35.000 He got on top of him.

00:35:37.000 That mount was just inescapable, and he started smashing him.

00:35:41.000 Fabricio, super underrated jujitsu.

00:35:44.000 I think even though people know it's his strong suit, they know how badass he is, when you watch, like, the shit that he can do, there's not a whole lot of guys that are like that as a heavyweight.

00:35:53.000 There's not a whole lot of guys that have that kind of guard. 0.84

00:35:55.000 There's not a whole lot of guys that are just so dangerous from everywhere.

00:35:59.000 And his striking has gotten really good too.

00:36:01.000 You gotta think he knocked out Mark Hunt with a flying knee.

00:36:04.000 You know?

00:36:04.000 And that's how he won the title.

00:36:06.000 He's a beast. 1.00

00:36:07.000 Fabricio Verdum is a fucking beast. 1.00

00:36:09.000 He just got super emotional when he fought Stipe in Brazil. 1.00

00:36:14.000 And just really charged at him, almost uncharacteristically aggressive.

00:36:19.000 And Stipe just set it up and just dropped a bomb on him and knocked him out.

00:36:22.000 But Stipe could do that to any living human.

00:36:24.000 Any living human that chases Stipe Miocic around like that. 1.00

00:36:28.000 And Stipe can just stop and cork one on you as you're moving in.

00:36:33.000 The only one I think you might be able to take something like that was like a prime time Mark Hunt.

00:36:38.000 Like prime time Mark Hunt had like the greatest jaw of all time.

00:36:43.000 Crow Cop head kicked him.

00:36:45.000 Full on. 0.89

00:36:46.000 Left high kick to the head. 0.97

00:36:48.000 And Mark Hunt like barely wobbled a little.

00:36:50.000 He was like wobbled a little.

00:36:53.000 Like he might have went down to one knee for a second and bounced back up.

00:36:56.000 Like that would smash people.

00:36:59.000 Most people got hit with that Crow Cop left high kick and it was night night. 0.99

00:37:03.000 But there's a video of it.

00:37:05.000 I'm pretty sure Crow Cop was wearing shoes. 1.00

00:37:08.000 I think he was wearing shoes when he head kicked him.

00:37:14.000 He's wearing shoes.

00:37:16.000 Yeah.

00:37:18.000 That's crazy.

00:37:19.000 They let Mirko Krokop kickbox with shoes on. 1.00

00:37:23.000 Pride didn't give a fuck. 0.99

00:37:25.000 Look, see that? 0.99

00:37:25.000 He's throwing kicks with... 0.99

00:37:27.000 Look at that.

00:37:27.000 Boom.

00:37:28.000 Hits him in the head. 0.83

00:37:29.000 Look what happens. 0.99

00:37:29.000 Little wobble. 0.99

00:37:30.000 That's it.

00:37:31.000 That's insane.

00:37:32.000 You have to know how insane that is.

00:37:34.000 Folks, you don't know.

00:37:36.000 I mean, that is crazy.

00:37:39.000 Mirko Krokop puts everybody to sleep.

00:37:41.000 He didn't even make Mark Hunt sleepy. 0.97

00:37:45.000 That primetime Mark Hunt had the most ridiculous jaw of all time. 0.98

00:37:48.000 The most ridiculous ability to take a shot, I should say, of all time. 0.99

00:37:52.000 Because it wasn't just his jaw. 0.99

00:37:54.000 He just could take a shot.

00:37:56.000 Just insanely, insanely tough.

00:37:59.000 For Beast of Redoom, KO'd him.

00:38:01.000 So you have to realize...

00:38:03.000 You know, we're talking about a straight-up killer now. 0.56

00:38:07.000 And he's 40. It's interesting.

00:38:09.000 He says he feels great, though.

00:38:12.000 With guys like that, you almost wish they could get him on some TRT. You almost wish it was legal.

00:38:18.000 Like, only they could administer it, monitor the levels.

00:38:22.000 Because if Fabrizio Verdum could do TRT, if he could add, like, TRT Vitor-type physique...

00:38:32.000 Remember that?

00:38:33.000 Those are the glory years of chaos, the TRT Vitor years. 0.99

00:38:38.000 If you get a TRT Verdum, holy shit, son. 1.00

00:38:44.000 I mean, goddamn. 1.00

00:38:48.000 That would be insane. 1.00

00:38:50.000 I wonder...

00:38:52.000 Yeah, there's TRT Vitor.

00:38:54.000 And there's regular Vitor with the cross on his head. 0.94

00:38:57.000 And then there's the first Vitor, which was probably like some other shit Vitor. 0.99

00:39:04.000 Yeah, crazy. 0.86

00:39:06.000 But at his prime, man, like when he knocked out Luke Rockhold or when he knocked out Michael Bisping or Dan Henderson in one round, he was just terrifying.

00:39:15.000 He was just something different.

00:39:17.000 Just smashing people in a way that was kind of stunning.

00:39:22.000 Like, wow, Vitor has never been better.

00:39:24.000 He just understood more because he was older and experienced.

00:39:28.000 And then...

00:39:30.000 When they let him take tests, his body was performing like a young guy's body.

00:39:35.000 So he has this young guy's body, but this old guy's brain.

00:39:39.000 And he just has incredible confidence from all his wars.

00:39:43.000 I mean, he's been in there with so many just assassins and survived and lost and won.

00:39:49.000 You know, I mean, Vitor has been around forever. 0.96

00:39:53.000 So to see him on the TRT makes you go, God damn, let's just let him do the TRT, man. 0.85

00:40:01.000 You're not supposed to say that. 0.93

00:40:02.000 You're not supposed to say that, but here's one way that a company like Bellator or one of these other organizations could get ahead is if they allowed that.

00:40:14.000 I don't know how they do that.

00:40:16.000 I don't know if that has to be a State Athletic Commission thing, but if there was a way...

00:40:20.000 Where Bellator decided, listen, let's be honest here.

00:40:25.000 Fighters would be much healthier, be able to get through their training camp better, feel more physically strong if we just allow them to do just a little bit of TRT. We'll monitor it.

00:40:37.000 We'll make sure everybody's okay.

00:40:38.000 Extend the career of a lot of the older guys.

00:40:41.000 What's up with that heavyweight Grand Prix they just announced?

00:40:45.000 Yeah.

00:40:45.000 It's like a big tournament.

00:40:46.000 Yeah, they're doing some big, crazy tournament.

00:40:48.000 Ryan Bader is going to fight as a heavyweight.

00:40:50.000 King Moe is going to fight as a heavyweight.

00:40:52.000 Big Country's in it.

00:40:54.000 Mitrione.

00:40:55.000 Rampage.

00:40:55.000 Fedor.

00:40:56.000 Rampage.

00:40:57.000 Chael Sonnen's in it.

00:41:00.000 Yeah.

00:41:00.000 Is it going to go for a year?

00:41:02.000 I don't know.

00:41:03.000 I don't know what the schedule is.

00:41:05.000 I just saw the announcement for it the other day, and I saw some pictures. 0.99

00:41:08.000 I was like, oh, shit. 0.99

00:41:11.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:41:13.000 Interesting, huh?

00:41:16.000 I like Ryan Bader as a heavyweight.

00:41:19.000 That could be interesting. 0.99

00:41:20.000 Ryan Bader, not having to cut any weight, maybe even putting a little weight on, fast as fuck, man. 0.98

00:41:26.000 That might be his weight class. 0.99

00:41:28.000 Who knows?

00:41:29.000 You know, and Ryan Bader, he's the Bellator champ now.

00:41:34.000 Did someone get cut off in the back there?

00:41:35.000 What happened?

00:41:37.000 The picture cut someone off.

00:41:38.000 Isn't that Frank Mir?

00:41:40.000 I think the picture's Frank Mir. 1.00

00:41:41.000 How dare they cut Frank Mir off, you sons of bitches. 1.00

00:41:45.000 You sons of bitches. 1.00

00:41:46.000 Have some respect. 1.00

00:41:47.000 It says Frank Mir on the left. 1.00

00:41:48.000 Have some fucking respect whoever edited that shit. 0.99

00:41:52.000 I haven't heard his name come up yet. 1.00

00:41:54.000 Do you know who that is?

00:41:54.000 Kyle Snyder?

00:41:55.000 He's a wrestler from Ohio State.

00:41:57.000 He won the gold medal in the Rio Olympics.

00:42:00.000 He's really young.

00:42:00.000 He's only 20 when he won it.

00:42:01.000 He just won the 2017 gold medal for heavyweight to beat a Russian.

00:42:07.000 I've seen his name pop up a little bit, but I haven't heard anything about him training with a particular team.

00:42:14.000 I think he's done at Ohio State now.

00:42:15.000 He won back-to-back.

00:42:16.000 Does he want to fight MMA? Is that what you're saying?

00:42:18.000 I think so.

00:42:18.000 I was just Googling it.

00:42:20.000 That's why I was asking if you heard anything.

00:42:21.000 It said that he wants to fight in the UFC and do the 2020 Olympics. 0.99

00:42:24.000 Damn! 1.00

00:42:25.000 What a beast. 1.00

00:42:26.000 I know.

00:42:27.000 He'd have to be matched up carefully.

00:42:30.000 The thing about the 2020 Olympics, man, I've got to think that would take up all your time.

00:42:34.000 How would you have time to kickbox and learn submissions?

00:42:37.000 I mean, he's a badass wrestler, obviously.

00:42:40.000 I don't know what he doesn't know or what he needs to...

00:42:43.000 Well, I think everything escalates, right?

00:42:45.000 Everybody gets better.

00:42:47.000 I mean, there's outliers in every generation, like Michael Jordan-type characters.

00:42:52.000 But I think in every sport, people get better.

00:42:54.000 And it must be the case in wrestling, too, right?

00:42:56.000 It's got to be.

00:42:57.000 I would imagine.

00:42:59.000 I don't know enough.

00:43:00.000 I only wrestled for one year in high school, and I quite honestly don't know enough about modern wrestling.

00:43:06.000 But I could always call Cormier up, and he would school me on it.

00:43:09.000 But I think if you look at the level...

00:43:11.000 He's a great example.

00:43:12.000 Look at the level of technical wrestling knowledge that Cormier has in relationship to maybe some of the earlier days wrestlers.

00:43:19.000 You're talking about a completely different level.

00:43:21.000 One of the reasons why Cormier has been so successful is how technical he is as a wrestler, how good he is.

00:43:26.000 His wrestling is...

00:43:29.000 It's like him, Yoel Romero is probably number one.

00:43:32.000 Like, Yoel Romero medaled in pretty much every international match that he was ever in.

00:43:39.000 Every international major tournament that he was ever in, he medaled.

00:43:44.000 Yoel Romero is like one of the scariest wrestlers that's ever done MMA, for sure.

00:43:48.000 There's no doubt about it.

00:43:50.000 I mean, he was the freak of freaks.

00:43:53.000 He beat Kale Sanderson twice.

00:43:57.000 And who's one of the greatest wrestlers ever?

00:44:00.000 I mean, Yoel Romero was a freak.

00:44:05.000 Did he ever fight in the UFC or anything?

00:44:08.000 I remember hearing him when I was growing up.

00:44:09.000 I don't believe he ever fought MMA. Pull that up.

00:44:13.000 Find out if that's true.

00:44:14.000 There was a fake MMA fight I found out that the Russian experiment did. 0.99

00:44:22.000 God damn it. 0.96

00:44:23.000 Why can't I remember his name? 0.99

00:44:26.000 I don't see anything.

00:44:27.000 It just says he's coaching after he wrestled.

00:44:29.000 Yeah, probably did.

00:44:31.000 Probably decided not to. 0.99

00:44:32.000 What the fuck's the dude's name? 0.99

00:44:33.000 The giant guy? 0.99

00:44:34.000 The experiment?

00:44:35.000 I can't believe his name's slipping my...

00:44:37.000 The giant Russian dude. 0.99

00:44:40.000 Can I believe I can't remember his name?

00:44:45.000 Gary Brenner?

00:44:47.000 No.

00:44:48.000 Scientist.

00:44:49.000 The one I'm always talking about.

00:44:51.000 How does that happen?

00:44:54.000 Where does an idea go and just vanish?

00:45:01.000 No, the Russian experiment.

00:45:04.000 He's the guy who lost to Rulon Gardner.

00:45:08.000 Jesus Christ, I can't believe I can't remember his name.

00:45:10.000 This is so embarrassing.

00:45:14.000 I got here.

00:45:15.000 I'll just pull up what came up.

00:45:19.000 No, the guy right about with the red singlet?

00:45:23.000 Keep going.

00:45:24.000 Right, right, right.

00:45:26.000 Yeah.

00:45:29.000 That's him.

00:45:29.000 Go to the webpage.

00:45:31.000 Alexander Carellin.

00:45:32.000 Thank you.

00:45:33.000 Jesus Christ.

00:45:36.000 How can I not?

00:45:37.000 I was coming up with some weird fake Russian names.

00:45:39.000 We smoked pot before we did this.

00:45:42.000 I'm sorry.

00:45:43.000 Sometimes it's not good for your memory.

00:45:45.000 There's a perfect example.

00:45:46.000 Because Carellin is like a guy I've been a fan of his forever.

00:45:51.000 He's just one of the scariest human beings that's ever lived.

00:45:58.000 I don't even know what my point was.

00:45:59.000 What was my point about Corellin?

00:46:01.000 Why were we bringing him up?

00:46:03.000 Oh, he had a fake fight. 0.81

00:46:04.000 He had an MMA fight and everybody was always like, wow, if that guy only fought MMA, it would be fucking amazing. 0.61

00:46:10.000 And then he had like a pro wrestling match.

00:46:13.000 I don't believe, I don't, it's not, I'm not saying it was like a fixed fight.

00:46:16.000 I think it was like a pro wrestling type situation.

00:46:20.000 And it just looked weird to watch. 0.97

00:46:24.000 But at the time, I think before Rulon Gardner had beaten him, he had won like who knows how many fucking matches in a row. 0.99

00:46:31.000 He was such a terrifying person. 0.96

00:46:35.000 He would scoop guys up by their waist, and they would try to flatten out on their stomach to try to avoid being thrown.

00:46:41.000 Have you ever seen a video?

00:46:43.000 Whoa, did we blow out?

00:46:44.000 What happened?

00:46:46.000 There we go?

00:46:46.000 Yeah.

00:46:47.000 Alright.

00:46:47.000 We're back.

00:46:48.000 We had some issue. 0.99

00:46:49.000 I don't know what the fuck happened. 0.98

00:46:50.000 But we were talking about Jose Aldo versus Max Holloway. 0.99

00:46:54.000 Two.

00:46:55.000 Dose.

00:46:55.000 Which is only happening because Frankie Edgar apparently got injured.

00:46:58.000 I do not know what the injury was.

00:47:00.000 Do you know what the injury was?

00:47:01.000 Young Jamie?

00:47:02.000 Did he disclose it? 1.00

00:47:06.000 There's a bunch of people that were talking shit online. 0.99

00:47:09.000 I was watching one of his Instagram pictures. 1.00

00:47:12.000 There was a video that he made. 0.99

00:47:14.000 A bunch of people were calling him a bitch for pulling out of the fight. 1.00

00:47:18.000 These fucking kids. 1.00

00:47:20.000 Of all the people that call him a bitch, Frankie Edgar is one of the biggest studs that's ever fought in MMA. That guy's an animal. 1.00

00:47:28.000 He's...

00:47:28.000 I mean, he's like one of the most durable...

00:47:35.000 Tough and like mentally strong guys in the sport. 0.98

00:47:39.000 So when someone calls him a bitch, it's actually hilarious. 1.00

00:47:44.000 It's like you read that, like that is one of the craziest fucking things anybody could ever say. 1.00

00:47:49.000 You called Frankie Edgar a bitch? 1.00

00:47:52.000 Like that doesn't even make, that's preposterous. 1.00

00:47:55.000 That's like saying Joey Diaz is a hot chick or something.

00:47:58.000 It's just, what are you saying?

00:48:00.000 Doesn't even make any sense. 0.99

00:48:03.000 If Frankie Edgar is a bitch, do you know what kind of benchmark you have set? 1.00

00:48:08.000 You have to be more of a man than Frankie Edgar or you're a bitch? 1.00

00:48:12.000 That is crazy. 1.00

00:48:13.000 We're all going to be bitches. 1.00

00:48:14.000 We will all fail. 1.00

00:48:16.000 You're going to look at a nation of bitches. 1.00

00:48:18.000 If that's where you're setting your bitch benchmark... 1.00

00:48:20.000 You're calling yourself a bitch for sure. 1.00

00:48:23.000 For sure. 0.99

00:48:24.000 Because I guarantee you, if Frankie Edgar's pulling out of a fight for an injury, you would have pulled out quicker. 1.00

00:48:29.000 So you're more of a bitch than him. 1.00

00:48:32.000 You'd have to be. 1.00

00:48:33.000 There's no way you're less of a bitch or anything remotely close to him when you're talking about a guy who's a former... 0.99

00:48:46.000 UFC lightweight champion in a weight class that he barely even cut any weight for. 0.99

00:48:51.000 He would walk around at 155 and he won the title.

00:48:54.000 He beat BJ Penn. 0.99

00:48:55.000 Like, get the fuck out of here. 0.99

00:48:57.000 More than once. 0.96

00:48:59.000 Beat Cubs once. 1.00

00:49:00.000 I mean, Frankie Edgar's a fucking monster. 1.00

00:49:03.000 He's an animal. 1.00

00:49:06.000 He's the wrong guy to be calling a bitch. 1.00

00:49:09.000 She can't. 1.00

00:49:12.000 It just... 0.99

00:49:12.000 It just shows you how ridiculous people are online. 0.99

00:49:16.000 I guarantee you that's not true. 1.00

00:49:22.000 I guarantee you if he pulled out of that fight, it's because he's fucking injured. 0.99

00:49:28.000 Period. 0.99

00:49:29.000 End of discussion. 0.99

00:49:31.000 He's not a bitch. 0.96

00:49:33.000 He's not afraid of anybody. 0.99

00:49:35.000 And that's not taking anything away from Max Holloway, who's fucking awesome. 0.99

00:49:38.000 Max Holloway's a savage. 1.00

00:49:41.000 He's a killer. 1.00

00:49:42.000 Straight up killer. 1.00

00:49:43.000 And not even close to his prime.

00:49:45.000 Max Holloway is a long way away from his prime.

00:49:47.000 He's way better now than he was when he first got into the UFC. He's continued to get better with every fight.

00:49:52.000 Now he's the champion.

00:49:53.000 He just stopped Aldo.

00:49:55.000 And then when they offered him the rematch because Frankie Edgar got injured, they offered Aldo the rematch.

00:50:00.000 So Aldo took it. 0.92

00:50:01.000 Now it's going to be Max Holloway versus Aldo too, which is still a huge fucking fight. 0.96

00:50:06.000 And Aldo's... 0.95

00:50:08.000 When Aldo got accepted...

00:50:12.000 Max Holloway wrote on his Instagram, it is what it is.

00:50:16.000 Like, no big deal.

00:50:17.000 Well, what are we going to do?

00:50:18.000 Like, what?

00:50:19.000 You're about to fight the greatest featherweight of all time for the second time.

00:50:27.000 And he's like, it is what it is.

00:50:29.000 Like, that's how badass he is. 0.99

00:50:32.000 He just figured if I fucked you up once, I'm gonna fuck you up again. 0.99

00:50:36.000 Like, in his mind, this is not a good fight, which is hilarious. 1.00

00:50:41.000 That's what a beast Max Holloway is.

00:50:44.000 That he's facing Jose Aldo and he's like, it is what it is.

00:50:48.000 It's not what I was looking for.

00:50:51.000 Yeah.

00:50:52.000 It is what it is.

00:50:54.000 What a beast. 1.00

00:50:55.000 Max Holloway is a killer! 1.00

00:50:59.000 He's a fucking killer, that kid. 1.00

00:51:01.000 He's a killer. 1.00

00:51:02.000 It is what it is. 1.00

00:51:02.000 You're fighting Jose Aldo. 1.00

00:51:04.000 He's coming to get you because you knocked him out to win the belt.

00:51:09.000 He has a chance at revenge.

00:51:11.000 And he's like, it is what it is. 0.96

00:51:16.000 He's an animal, man. 1.00

00:51:17.000 A fucking kid is the real deal. 1.00

00:51:21.000 What's so exciting about him is that he's not even close to done. 1.00

00:51:24.000 You know, he has massive potential.

00:51:26.000 And he could easily move up to 155 if he wanted to.

00:51:29.000 Like, if they could...

00:51:31.000 If, say, Max Holloway wins this fight spectacularly and then starts talking a bunch of shit about Conor McGregor and then moves up to 155, I think Max Holloway could easily compete at 155 if he wanted to do some sort of unification bout.

00:51:48.000 Not a unification bout, but a champion versus champion bout.

00:51:52.000 I think for sure Max Holloway could be competitive at 155. And Max Holloway's only loss in his career was to Conor.

00:52:01.000 That's the only loss he has on his record.

00:52:04.000 That's what a badass he is.

00:52:06.000 And he was the only guy that went to decision.

00:52:08.000 Frankie Edgar released a statement.

00:52:10.000 After UFC 218 withdrawal, Max, I'll see you down the road.

00:52:14.000 Well, what's the statement?

00:52:15.000 He's got a facial surgery to repair a facial injury.

00:52:19.000 He says it's a minor setback.

00:52:21.000 Oh.

00:52:22.000 He'll start training in about six weeks.

00:52:23.000 I wonder what it is.

00:52:26.000 Uh, maybe it's a face problem, bro?

00:52:28.000 It might be.

00:52:29.000 I'm just saying.

00:52:32.000 Facial surgery can mean a lot of things.

00:52:35.000 You know, it can mean you got something wrong with your jaw, which is not good.

00:52:39.000 It could mean you got something wrong with your cheekbone, which is not good.

00:52:43.000 It could mean you got something wrong with your orbital, which is not good.

00:52:47.000 Or it could mean something that I don't understand.

00:52:50.000 So if he's not concerned about it, maybe it's something I don't understand.

00:52:53.000 Maybe it's not a broken something.

00:52:56.000 Maybe like something was like detached or something needed to be stitched back on.

00:52:59.000 Yikes! 1.00

00:53:02.000 You think about all the elbows people have taken. 1.00

00:53:04.000 All the shit that gets displaced all over your face. 0.98

00:53:07.000 Like John Wayne Parr has sort of documented all the stitches that he's ever taken. 0.99

00:53:12.000 Multiple time world Muay Thai champion. 0.99

00:53:14.000 Just a fucking straight up savage from Australia. 1.00

00:53:17.000 And John Wayne Parr who's still fighting. 1.00

00:53:19.000 He's fighting for Bellator now.

00:53:20.000 He's one of the Bellator on the Bellator kickboxing roster.

00:53:24.000 But he's had...

00:53:25.000 God, he's going to be pissed at me for not remembering.

00:53:28.000 But I think he's had more than 300 stitches in his face. 0.98

00:53:33.000 He's such an animal!

00:53:35.000 He's, like, documented them, too.

00:53:37.000 I think they did something where it shows John Wayne Parr, and it shows all the places, and they put stitches on all the places where he's had actual stitches.

00:53:47.000 They, like, you know, doctored him in.

00:53:49.000 Yeah, the picture's just straight crazy.

00:53:53.000 You're like, you are in a business that shreds your face.

00:53:57.000 Yeah, that's it right there.

00:53:58.000 That's all the different places in his body where he's been stitched up.

00:54:04.000 Which is just incredible.

00:54:06.000 I mean, you look at his face.

00:54:07.000 It's like a mask of stitches.

00:54:11.000 But he looks normal when you meet him.

00:54:12.000 They did a great job stitching him up. 0.99

00:54:14.000 I mean, he definitely looks like a guy you wouldn't fuck with. 0.99

00:54:16.000 You know, you want to fuck with a dude who has scars all over his face. 1.00

00:54:19.000 Probably not a good move. 1.00

00:54:22.000 But couldn't be a nicer guy.

00:54:25.000 That was a fight that he had where his cornerman took that big cut on the side of his head and started making mouth things with it and talking.

00:54:32.000 Hey, my name is Mr. Cut. 0.99

00:54:34.000 That's how morose these guys get. 0.94

00:54:37.000 But, you know, he's still after it. 0.93

00:54:41.000 And that guy's, you know, I mean, it comes to, like, the amount of facial damage that he's received.

00:54:49.000 And delivered.

00:54:51.000 Delivered a lot of it, too.

00:54:52.000 A shitload of it.

00:54:53.000 Yuck. 0.95

00:54:54.000 Oh, no.

00:54:55.000 Who's that?

00:54:56.000 Ron Stallings?

00:54:58.000 Suffers nasty cut? 0.93

00:54:59.000 His eyebrows hanging off.

00:55:01.000 That's the choir boy.

00:55:02.000 Oh.

00:55:04.000 He's a very good fighter. 0.99

00:55:06.000 That sucks. 0.98

00:55:07.000 Yeah, there was a real bad one with Marvin Eastman. 0.99

00:55:10.000 Vitor Belfort hit Marvin Eastman with a flying knee.

00:55:13.000 Not a flying knee, but like jumped into it, jump knee, and just smashed him in the forehead and cut his eyebrow open terribly.

00:55:21.000 It was like this really long cut.

00:55:23.000 I was like, oh my god.

00:55:25.000 Yeah.

00:55:28.000 Yeah, that one.

00:55:29.000 Pull that up.

00:55:30.000 Yeah, that is an enormous cut.

00:55:32.000 I mean, literally, I mean, four inches long, maybe?

00:55:37.000 Third eyebrow.

00:55:38.000 Yeah, like a huge third eyebrow going off his eyebrow.

00:55:42.000 And you see all the meat in there and everything, and they have to stitch all that together.

00:55:47.000 I mean, I don't know what happens with the muscles underneath it. 1.00

00:55:50.000 Shit. 1.00

00:55:51.000 That one was bad. 1.00

00:55:52.000 What was that one?

00:55:53.000 Is that it?

00:55:54.000 Yeah.

00:55:54.000 Marvin Eastman.

00:55:55.000 Oh my god.

00:55:56.000 That last angle was even worse.

00:55:58.000 Go to that one right next to that one.

00:56:00.000 Yeah.

00:56:01.000 Look at that.

00:56:02.000 You see it from that angle?

00:56:05.000 It literally looks like he got attacked by a machete.

00:56:08.000 Like someone stuck a machete in his head. 0.72

00:56:11.000 Yeah, those are nasty.

00:56:13.000 I don't know how we got to that.

00:56:14.000 I don't know how we got on that.

00:56:16.000 We're talking about damage, you know?

00:56:18.000 I don't know if we said enough about the Goddard-McGregor thing, but it's always just very disappointing.

00:56:26.000 I wish he hadn't have done it, but I get how he thought the fight was over.

00:56:32.000 I get why when he thought the fight wasn't over, he was furious.

00:56:35.000 I get all of it.

00:56:38.000 It's just very uncomfortable.

00:56:40.000 And I think Goddard could not have handled himself better. 1.00

00:56:43.000 That guy is a fucking man. 0.99

00:56:45.000 I love the way he handled it. 1.00

00:56:46.000 I love the way he wrote about it.

00:56:48.000 The way he wrote about it was like so clear and so concise and it's...

00:56:54.000 The way he wrote about his job inside the cage, what he was trying to do, makes you realize what a great referee he really is.

00:57:04.000 How he's taking everything into consideration and following the rules, even in the middle of chaos.

00:57:10.000 Which you gotta do.

00:57:11.000 You gotta do. 0.99

00:57:12.000 It's a fucking tough job. 0.99

00:57:14.000 That is one of the toughest jobs in sports. 0.99

00:57:16.000 To be a referee in a professional MMA fight is one of the toughest jobs in sports.

00:57:22.000 There's so much craziness going on and it's so dangerous if someone loses.

00:57:26.000 The moment between someone getting hit and KO'd and being okay to taking five, six, seven, eight unanswered blows...

00:57:37.000 And not being okay.

00:57:39.000 There is a difference.

00:57:40.000 There's a big difference.

00:57:42.000 And a great referee is very, very important.

00:57:45.000 And it's so subjective.

00:57:47.000 It's so hard to decide when a guy's done.

00:57:50.000 And how do you know?

00:57:51.000 And do you take into consideration how tough the guy is?

00:57:54.000 Because Frankie Edgar can survive past the lands of doom where most people drown in their own fear.

00:58:01.000 He survives past that and comes back and can win.

00:58:04.000 There's guys like him.

00:58:06.000 And then there's some guys, and once they get hit and once they get hurt, their ability to recover is not the same.

00:58:13.000 And I don't know what it is.

00:58:14.000 I don't know if it's just the person who recovered, didn't fight someone who hits hard enough or in the correct places to do enough damage where they couldn't return, or if they're so damn tough, it doesn't matter who hits them or where they hit them, they figure out a way to make it back.

00:58:29.000 Who knows?

00:58:30.000 There's a lot of arguments on both sides.

00:58:33.000 But, man...

00:58:35.000 You've got to take into consideration, like, if you're watching, say, a Frankie Edgar-Grey Maynard fight, and you go, oh my god, this could be stopped at any moment.

00:58:43.000 It could be stopped, but it wasn't stopped, and Frankie came back to win. 1.00

00:58:47.000 He had a draw in one fight, won in the second fight. 0.65

00:58:50.000 And in the second fight, where he won by knockout, it was arguably even crazier, because Grey Maynard was fucking him up in the first round again. 0.81

00:58:59.000 Like, Grey Maynard was a beast, and he was huge for 155. But Frankie Edgar got through that storm.

00:59:05.000 Some guys wouldn't have, and some referees would have stopped that fight. 1.00

00:59:09.000 And I don't know who's right.

00:59:11.000 I want to be really honest about this.

00:59:13.000 I have no idea who's right.

00:59:15.000 I don't know what the right move is.

00:59:16.000 I don't know if the right move is to let a guy fight and let him recover and give him every chance he can to win that fight, even if it makes him take unnecessary damage.

00:59:29.000 Give him the benefit of the doubt or err on the side of caution and safety.

00:59:34.000 And different fighters would have a different opinion.

00:59:37.000 You know, there was this archaic idea for a long time that has pretty much since been abandoned. 0.99

00:59:42.000 But the idea was that if you tap from strikes, you're a bitch. 1.00

00:59:46.000 It was a real thing, you know, that people would stick in George St. Pierre's face because he tapped with strikes to Matt Serra. 0.99

00:59:54.000 Matt Serra just blasted him, and he was on top blasting him, and George knew he was going out.

00:59:58.000 So he had to tap.

01:00:00.000 Matt Serra was a KO artist, too. 0.99

01:00:02.000 He could hit fucking hard. 0.96

01:00:06.000 But when you tap to strikes, if you know that you're not going to recover, I think it's a smart move. 1.00

01:00:16.000 I think we have the wrong way of looking at it I know they do it just to talk shit. 0.96

01:00:24.000 I know you're testing someone's courage. 0.98

01:00:28.000 But I think between fighters, there should be a difference between the shit-talking that fighters engage in and then the way that other people analyze the actual sport itself. 0.86

01:00:37.000 Because I think if you analyze the actual sport itself, you can't see anything wrong with tapping of strikes.

01:00:41.000 If you're a pundit, you're a sideliner, you're an MMA fan, you're, in my opinion, If you really trust a guy's judgment as a champion, and as a high-level fighter like George St. Pierre, you can't be upset if he taps the strikes. 0.98

01:00:57.000 It's because he's getting fucked up and he knows it. 0.97

01:00:59.000 Like the Ioana Jacek. 0.99

01:01:01.000 She said she didn't tap the strikes.

01:01:03.000 She said she was moving her hand around.

01:01:05.000 It looked like a tap to me.

01:01:07.000 She was getting smashed, though.

01:01:08.000 She might not have even known she was tapping.

01:01:10.000 She might have been in a memory... 0.86

01:01:13.000 Short out circuit where she's getting blasted, blasted, blasted. 1.00

01:01:20.000 So if she even remembers tapping, who knows? 0.89

01:01:24.000 She's getting cracked, man.

01:01:26.000 I mean, she got clipped with that left hand. 1.00

01:01:30.000 And then Rose gets on top of her and starts dropping haymakers on her. 1.00

01:01:35.000 Just boom, boom, boom, boom.

01:01:37.000 And you see her reach over and tap right as the referee gets in and rescues her. 0.98

01:01:43.000 And she might not have meant to.

01:01:45.000 You've got to realize, when you're getting smashed in the face like that, everything is chaos.

01:01:49.000 It's fireworks and sparks.

01:01:52.000 And every situation is different.

01:01:54.000 In one situation, you might have a guy who's fully aware of what's happening and knows exactly what he's doing.

01:02:00.000 He's getting bombed on, but he can get through it. 0.99

01:02:03.000 Versus a person who gets hit and from the very first shot, they don't know what the fuck is happening. 0.99

01:02:08.000 They're just on Queer Street. 0.99

01:02:10.000 They're Gonsville.

01:02:11.000 They don't know where they are.

01:02:12.000 They're like, whoa!

01:02:14.000 And you can't see it from the outside.

01:02:16.000 The only person who knows is the person that's getting hit.

01:02:22.000 The only person who knows their ability to recover.

01:02:24.000 Now, how much of that is psychological?

01:02:26.000 How much of that is their fighting spirit?

01:02:28.000 How much of it is physiological?

01:02:30.000 Guesswork.

01:02:31.000 No one knows.

01:02:32.000 It's a combination of all those things for sure.

01:02:35.000 100%.

01:02:35.000 Because you can't just have the physical and you can't just have the mental.

01:02:39.000 If you have the mental and someone has the physical way better than you, you have to have all of it.

01:02:43.000 It's a big...

01:02:44.000 The idea that any person could be an MMA champ, it's like, ooh, I don't know. 0.88

01:02:49.000 Because everyone that's a champ is fucking super exceptional.

01:02:54.000 If it's not just physically, it's physically and mentally. 0.95

01:02:58.000 It's not an easy game. 1.00

01:03:01.000 It's a crazy fucking sport. 0.99

01:03:03.000 And who knows if Ioana tapped. 1.00

01:03:07.000 It looked like she tapped.

01:03:08.000 Who knows if she realized what was going on.

01:03:11.000 You know, did you see that thing about that football player that was diagnosed with CTE for the first time while he was alive?

01:03:18.000 We sort of glossed over it when we were talking to Dan Carlin.

01:03:20.000 This is the first time a living football player has been diagnosed with CTE. I was going to ask who it was, but it says they're unnamed.

01:03:30.000 Yeah, I wouldn't want people to know.

01:03:33.000 I guess.

01:03:34.000 Man, they're saying that even high school kids have it.

01:03:38.000 That high school kids who play a lot, bang heads a lot, you're going to get it.

01:03:42.000 Like, that is...

01:03:43.000 That is so hard to deal with.

01:03:47.000 You think about how many people play football, how many people box, how many people fight, how many people are going to walk out of that thing to Gondsville, and how many people are going to be really clever, like Mighty Mouse, and avoid the damage...

01:04:04.000 And just have a technical understanding of where to be and where not to be, what's coming next, how to keep somebody thinking, how to overload their mind with possibilities.

01:04:16.000 You know, it's like you've got two different styles.

01:04:19.000 You've got that style, the super technical upper echelon of MMA, where he gets super aggressive and picks up his pace towards the end of the fights and wind up finishing guys.

01:04:30.000 Just excellence.

01:04:31.000 Like that crazy...

01:04:34.000 The suplex to armbar thing that he did on Ray... 0.90

01:04:42.000 Goddammit, what's his name?

01:04:44.000 Ray Borg. 0.93

01:04:45.000 The Tasmexian devil. 1.00

01:04:46.000 I fuck that up all the time. 0.99

01:04:48.000 And when I do the weigh-ins, I call him the Tasmanian devil. 1.00

01:04:51.000 It just comes out of my mouth like an idiot. 0.97

01:04:54.000 But Ray Borg, who's a very good fighter and very tough and fast, man, when Mighty Mouse just put it on him, it was like, you're watching an artist. 0.99

01:05:02.000 You're watching someone who's just clearly head and shoulders technically above anyone in his division.

01:05:09.000 That's why this fight that TJ's asking for gets really interesting.

01:05:14.000 TJ Dillashaw versus Mighty Mouse is going to be one of the greatest fights of all time if they could pull it off.

01:05:22.000 If they actually wind up making that fight, holy shit will I be excited.

01:05:26.000 I'll be so excited because I think this will be the first time in a long time where Mighty Mouse has been challenged. 0.89

01:05:34.000 He got challenged by Ian.

01:05:36.000 Ian McCall had him in a really bad spot.

01:05:40.000 He's certainly been challenged by other fighters.

01:05:44.000 He certainly fought fighters early in his career.

01:05:49.000 We had like really good fights with him, Joseph Benavidez.

01:05:52.000 But at the stage that he's at now, he's like, he's so fucking, he's so advanced that I think it takes someone like a TJ Dillashaw, like a real super confident world champion killer to give him the fight that we need to see. 0.91

01:06:11.000 Because if TJ really can make 125, and he says he really can make 125, then holy shit what a fight that is. 0.85

01:06:20.000 Ooh, that's a good fight.

01:06:21.000 Because TJ will have a giant power advantage, right?

01:06:25.000 I mean, TJ's knocked out Hennenborough.

01:06:27.000 TJ's knocked out Cody Garbrandt in his last fight.

01:06:31.000 TJ avoided all the chaos that John Lineker brings into the cage.

01:06:36.000 TJ avoided all that.

01:06:37.000 He shut him down.

01:06:39.000 TJ right now is operating at a real high world championship level, and the only fight that he lost, he lost to Dominic Cruz by the narrowest of margins.

01:06:49.000 Some people don't even feel like he lost that fight.

01:06:51.000 There was an argument that if you look at the damaging blows, that he landed more damaging blows to Dominic, particularly if you factor in the leg kicks.

01:07:02.000 So it's arguable that that was at the very worst a draw.

01:07:06.000 That it was such a close fight to call.

01:07:08.000 That's arguable.

01:07:09.000 Or you could argue that Dominic won too.

01:07:11.000 But the point is he's a legit world championship caliber fighter. 1.00

01:07:17.000 Like TJ's a fucking killer. 1.00

01:07:19.000 He's a killer. 1.00

01:07:20.000 What he did to Hennon Burrow is insane. 1.00

01:07:22.000 And then what he just did to Cody coming off the deck and KOing Cody Garbrandt like that, that's fucking insane too. 0.98

01:07:29.000 He's in rare form. 0.55

01:07:30.000 So him versus Mighty Mouse is the fight. 0.99

01:07:34.000 That's the fight where you go, holy shit. 0.99

01:07:37.000 Which one of these guys... 0.97

01:07:39.000 Is arguably the best fighter in the world, because right now we think it's Mighty Mouse, but that thing always moves up and down.

01:07:47.000 Like, who's the best fighter that always moves around?

01:07:50.000 Like, when Jon Jones wins and knocks out Daniel Cormier, you go, damn, you almost want to give it to Jon. 0.61

01:07:56.000 Like, he's in a deeper shark pond, you know, there's more killers, he's fighting Cormier, who's just... 0.97

01:08:03.000 As good as they get, after beating Rumble, after holding the title and John KOs him, you go, God, man.

01:08:09.000 You almost have to give it to John. 0.99

01:08:10.000 But then John tests positive, so you're like, what the fuck, man? 0.99

01:08:13.000 So here's the heat, right? 0.99

01:08:15.000 It's John and DJ, right?

01:08:20.000 Demetrius is probably, in my ideas, number one.

01:08:22.000 And John is in this situation where he's probably going to get suspended or something.

01:08:29.000 But then you got probably TJ. If not George St. Pierre.

01:08:33.000 GSP moved up on the official list.

01:08:35.000 Did he go to number one?

01:08:36.000 Number two.

01:08:37.000 Of course.

01:08:38.000 That's interesting that you give him that with one fight against Michael Bisping.

01:08:42.000 That just shows you how badass you have to be to step in and fight Michael Bisping.

01:08:49.000 After Michael Bisping knocks out Luke Rockhold.

01:08:53.000 After he had beaten Anderson Silva.

01:08:55.000 Defends his title against Dan Henderson.

01:08:58.000 And you just jump in there and beat him.

01:09:01.000 And then jump to number two in the pound for pound ranking.

01:09:04.000 It's like, what?

01:09:07.000 Welcome back, man.

01:09:08.000 It's crazy.

01:09:10.000 So what do you think about all that stuff?

01:09:12.000 They're having all these conversations about who's ranking the fighters and that the organization shouldn't be able to rank the fighters.

01:09:21.000 Like they shouldn't be able to make the matches.

01:09:24.000 It's done technically right now through writers, right?

01:09:27.000 Mostly.

01:09:27.000 Writers?

01:09:28.000 I think you can see who the writers are, right?

01:09:32.000 Writers?

01:09:32.000 Voting panelists, I'm sorry.

01:09:34.000 But they're all people from, let's see, like...

01:09:36.000 Yeah, but at the end of the day...

01:09:38.000 Blogs and whatnot.

01:09:39.000 The UFC decides what they're going to do.

01:09:40.000 Right.

01:09:41.000 At the end of the day, they go, yeah, yeah, yeah, you guys are cute.

01:09:43.000 Listen, George St. Pierre is going to fight Michael Bisping. 1.00

01:09:45.000 Shut the fuck up. 1.00

01:09:47.000 I was going to compare it to something that came out this week. 0.99

01:09:50.000 The way the college football runs their big playoff is they have a panel that takes into account all of the official rankings that are done, a couple computer rankings, but then at the end of the thing, it's still the seven or eight people are going to decide...

01:10:06.000 That this team is ranked over this team.

01:10:08.000 And it really comes down to money.

01:10:09.000 The matchups they want to see and what they can sell in ads.

01:10:12.000 But they don't officially say that.

01:10:13.000 It just creates more posts.

01:10:15.000 Like, why did they do this?

01:10:16.000 We don't understand it.

01:10:17.000 Yeah.

01:10:19.000 Well, the UFC has the ability to do whatever it wants.

01:10:24.000 And they're in a situation, and here's the argument for it.

01:10:27.000 They're in a situation where they just bought this organization for $4 billion. 1.00

01:10:31.000 They need to make money, motherfucker. 1.00

01:10:32.000 So if they're going to have Tyron Woodley fight Nate Diaz, they're like, hey, that's going to do some pay-per-view numbers. 0.99

01:10:37.000 And it will.

01:10:38.000 That's an interesting fight.

01:10:39.000 I like to see it.

01:10:40.000 I like to see how Nate deals with the biggest, fastest welterweight in the division.

01:10:48.000 The biggest knockout artist welterweight in the division.

01:10:51.000 I mean, there's no doubt about it.

01:10:53.000 Tyron Woodley is a tank. 1.00

01:10:55.000 He's a tank who throws fucking missiles your way. 1.00

01:10:59.000 Boom! 1.00

01:11:00.000 Boom! 0.99

01:11:01.000 And he's gotten very tactical.

01:11:03.000 People got mad at him for those two Wonderboy fights, but I... I suggest that they don't truly appreciate what those fights represented.

01:11:13.000 They represented extreme consequences for any mistake.

01:11:16.000 You're fighting a guy who's like one of the best counter-strikers on the planet Earth in Wonderboy.

01:11:23.000 He's one of the sneakiest, slipperiest...

01:11:30.000 He moves like a world champion karate guy who also has takedown defense.

01:11:35.000 And he's got a ton of experience in MMA now.

01:11:38.000 And he just fights weird.

01:11:39.000 He throws front leg roundhouse kicks to your face.

01:11:42.000 He jumps in and hits you with shots you don't see coming because he has that blitz karate style that he employs sometimes.

01:11:48.000 Very difficult to hit.

01:11:49.000 His hands are always down low.

01:11:51.000 And Tyron managed to not just beat him, and they were boring fights.

01:11:55.000 I'm not going to lie to you.

01:11:56.000 They were boring fights.

01:11:57.000 But they weren't boring to me while they were happening.

01:12:00.000 It was boring in terms of the overall result because it was a five-round decision where not a lot of exchanges took place.

01:12:05.000 But it wasn't boring when I was watching it.

01:12:08.000 And this is why...

01:12:10.000 It's because now that you know how it ended, you'll just sit through the fight and go, oh my god, this is boring.

01:12:14.000 But when you don't know what is going to happen, they don't know either.

01:12:18.000 And they're making these decisions and they're so evenly matched that they're canceling each other out.

01:12:23.000 And Tyron is doing a very smart thing by not engaging.

01:12:26.000 And he's not doing too much.

01:12:28.000 Because if he does too much, it leaves these openings, and he doesn't want to even remotely risk that he's going to put himself in a position where he gets open and Wonderboy catches him.

01:12:39.000 So he makes Wonderboy do all the leading, and then when the bombs get dropped on both occasions, Tyron Woodley was the one that hurt Wonderboy, which is crazy.

01:12:48.000 When you think that Wonderboy is one of the best kickboxers that's ever fought in MMA. He had some insane kickboxing record.

01:12:54.000 I want to quote it out of the top of my head.

01:12:56.000 I think it was 57-0.

01:12:58.000 He's 57-0 as a kickboxer.

01:13:01.000 This is a guy that Georges St-Pierre said was the best striker that he's ever sparred with. 0.98

01:13:06.000 That's how goddamn good Wonderboy is. 0.95

01:13:08.000 He's another level striker. 0.98

01:13:11.000 And those two fights between Tyron Woodley and Wonderboy essentially were striking exchanges for the most part.

01:13:19.000 Except for the first fight.

01:13:21.000 The first fight, Tyron did get him in a guillotine for a while.

01:13:23.000 And it looked like he was burning his arms out.

01:13:26.000 You couldn't believe that Wonderboy got out of it.

01:13:29.000 But the point is...

01:13:31.000 In the moments of the fight where one fighter was in trouble, it was always Wonderboy.

01:13:38.000 And that's enough in my eyes to give Tyron the decisions for sure.

01:13:43.000 Just that.

01:13:45.000 If we want to look at what is a fight.

01:13:46.000 I think the current system of like 10 points, 9 points...

01:13:50.000 It's too flawed.

01:13:52.000 We adopted this from boxing.

01:13:54.000 We should have a way more comprehensive system.

01:13:57.000 And I think it should be a system that's probably over 100 points, or up to 100 points, rather.

01:14:02.000 That you have points for significant moments in the fight.

01:14:06.000 Like, maybe...

01:14:07.000 Significant moments when someone gets dipped, that accounts for a certain amount of points.

01:14:11.000 Significant moments where a person almost gets submitted and figures out how to power out, that accounts for a certain amount of points.

01:14:17.000 Do they power out and wind up reversing the position?

01:14:20.000 Because that should be worth a certain amount of points.

01:14:21.000 You know, there should be an accumulative effect It shouldn't be just like, you won or you won.

01:14:26.000 It should be like, how do you know who won?

01:14:27.000 Like, can we look at the stats?

01:14:29.000 Can we look at the numbers?

01:14:30.000 And then, can we look at it from an expert point of view?

01:14:33.000 Because every punch does not have the same impact that other punches do.

01:14:36.000 Every kick does not have the same impact that other kicks do, and every submission doesn't have the same probability of succeeding.

01:14:42.000 So if you're watching all these things happen, You need real, world-class experts to assess what's happening at any stage of the fight.

01:14:51.000 The only people that should ever judge a fight are guys like Matt Hume, who used to judge for Pride.

01:14:57.000 Guys like Duke Rufus.

01:14:59.000 World-class guys.

01:15:01.000 Firas Zahabi.

01:15:02.000 You could get that level of martial artist to judge fights.

01:15:06.000 And I think you would have the opportunity to create a totally new system that's not boxing-based because the 10-point must system is just so flawed.

01:15:15.000 Have a new system and just only have high-level, world-class martial artists and nothing less do all the judging.

01:15:25.000 Because they'll understand what the difference is between someone just taking somebody down and someone taking somebody down and threatening them.

01:15:31.000 Someone who's on the bottom who's winning with elbows or was threatening with submissions.

01:15:35.000 Maybe they don't understand how close these submissions are. 0.99

01:15:38.000 Some people don't know a triangle's locked up until it's a fucking tap. 0.99

01:15:42.000 If you've never sparred a day in your life and you watch someone who's tapping someone with a wrist lock, you're not going to know what the fuck is happening. 0.99

01:15:49.000 You're just not, most likely. 0.94

01:15:51.000 Unless you're a real aficionado that's just never physically practiced it.

01:15:55.000 Most of the people that are referees, unfortunately, or I should say judges, there's a lot of them.

01:16:00.000 I don't want to say most of them.

01:16:01.000 A lot of them are real martial artists, 100%.

01:16:04.000 But there's quite a few that were sort of grandfathered in from boxing, and they don't necessarily know a whole lot about MMA. Now, this is not representative of the vast majority, but I see them every now and then, and some of them are very nice people.

01:16:19.000 And I say, hi, Mike, how you doing?

01:16:21.000 I mean, we're just talking disagreements on things and maybe different levels of appreciation for what's happening. 0.96

01:16:27.000 But every now and then you get a decision where everybody looks at everybody and goes, what in the fuck does that just say? 0.94

01:16:33.000 Like, everybody. 0.98

01:16:34.000 You, me, everybody.

01:16:36.000 Look over at Tony.

01:16:37.000 I'll look over at John Anik.

01:16:39.000 He'll look over at me.

01:16:40.000 I'll look over at Daniel Cormier. 1.00

01:16:41.000 He'll look over at me and we're like, what the fuck? 0.99

01:16:44.000 That shouldn't happen. 0.99

01:16:45.000 That shouldn't happen when all the experts...

01:16:49.000 Are in agreement that this is a bad decision.

01:16:51.000 Now, we're not talking about, like, debatable moments.

01:16:53.000 Like, there's fights where you look at it and you go, man, I could see the argument for this guy winning.

01:16:58.000 And then the other guy could say, well, I see the argument for that guy winning. 0.99

01:17:00.000 And I'll be like, damn, you got a point. 0.97

01:17:02.000 You know, like, Brendan and I will do that all the time. 0.98

01:17:04.000 He'll make an argument for why he thinks that Connor won the second fight easy, and I'll make an argument like, I don't know, man.

01:17:12.000 I don't know about all that.

01:17:13.000 I mean, we're not using the same system back then.

01:17:16.000 When someone got dropped, it's not a 10-8 thing, right?

01:17:20.000 It's not like they don't give away 10-8 rounds as quickly back then.

01:17:23.000 I'm pretty sure that was the old rules, was it not?

01:17:27.000 Goddammit, I should know that.

01:17:28.000 Anyway, point being, some people think Nate could have got a draw in that fight.

01:17:34.000 And I'm like, maybe.

01:17:36.000 Maybe.

01:17:37.000 It wasn't far enough away where you couldn't see that.

01:17:40.000 It was one of those where you're like, wow, maybe.

01:17:42.000 There's been a bunch of fights like that, and I could see the argument for Conor winning 100%.

01:17:46.000 He hit him quicker, faster, harder, won the first rounds bigger.

01:17:50.000 But, man, I don't know.

01:17:52.000 We're adding points.

01:17:54.000 If you're just doing this 10-9 thing, and occasionally 10-8, but now most of the states are adopting the full new MMA regulations.

01:18:03.000 And as they do that, we're going to get a much better range of rounds, like what a round scores as, which is a good step.

01:18:12.000 It's a good step in the right direction.

01:18:13.000 I just think it is an incredibly critical part of the sport, is who judges the decisions.

01:18:21.000 Again, it's not to disparage anybody who's currently doing it, but I think it is a position that should be held in the highest of esteem.

01:18:29.000 Right up there with referee. 0.92

01:18:31.000 I think this position is crucial for the future of the fighters.

01:18:36.000 It's crucial for the legitimacy of the sport itself.

01:18:40.000 Because when bad decisions happen, people get angry.

01:18:43.000 And they question whether or not the sport is legitimate.

01:18:46.000 And that's dangerous to the respect that the athletes face.

01:18:49.000 Like, here's a perfect example.

01:18:51.000 Canelo Alvarez versus Gennady Golovkin.

01:18:54.000 Everybody who's a boxing fan knows Gennady Golovkin won that fight.

01:18:57.000 Unless you're a huge Canelo fan and you're just absorbed in Canelo.

01:19:01.000 You love him.

01:19:02.000 If you watch that fight, Golovkin seemed to control way more of the fight than Canelo did.

01:19:09.000 It didn't mean that Canelo didn't win rounds.

01:19:11.000 It didn't mean Canelo didn't land good shots.

01:19:13.000 But he lost.

01:19:15.000 It seemed to me that he lost.

01:19:17.000 And they didn't give it to him.

01:19:21.000 Golovkin didn't get the decision.

01:19:22.000 It was a draw. 0.99

01:19:23.000 And people were watching it going, what the fuck? 0.99

01:19:26.000 And that's what Brendan called in advance. 0.99

01:19:29.000 Brendan Schaub called it in advance.

01:19:31.000 He's like, unless Golovkin wins by knockout, he's never winning a decision.

01:19:35.000 And I go, you really think so? 0.99

01:19:36.000 He's like, fuck yeah. 1.00

01:19:38.000 He nailed it. 1.00

01:19:40.000 He totally nailed it.

01:19:41.000 When they read the draw, I put my hands on my face like Macaulay Culkin in Home Alone. 1.00

01:19:46.000 I went, oh, you fucked him. 1.00

01:19:49.000 You fucked Gennady Golovkin. 1.00

01:19:51.000 Oh, you got him. 1.00

01:19:54.000 What do you think of the...

01:19:55.000 When they did the instant replay, I think it was the first time at the UFC in New York.

01:20:01.000 Yeah, with the Walt Harris fight.

01:20:02.000 It's a good move, man.

01:20:04.000 They keep doing that, or is that only a one-time kind of thing?

01:20:08.000 I don't know.

01:20:08.000 They should keep doing it.

01:20:09.000 No, it wasn't a Walt Harris fight.

01:20:10.000 Which fight was it?

01:20:11.000 They said they did it because of the Musashi-Weidman fight.

01:20:15.000 Right, right.

01:20:15.000 And then they used it.

01:20:16.000 I guess it got used, though, during those two fights, right?

01:20:18.000 Yeah, it was the Walt Harris fight, and then there was the other fight.

01:20:22.000 Ozdemir?

01:20:23.000 Yeah.

01:20:25.000 So it came into play and was used properly, probably, right?

01:20:28.000 Yes, it was.

01:20:28.000 Well, the Walt Harris thing is very unfortunate.

01:20:30.000 He had kicked that dude.

01:20:32.000 But the other one, Ozdemir, got knocked out by...

01:20:35.000 Who was the gentleman Ozdemir was fighting?

01:20:41.000 Don't try to remember.

01:20:42.000 Look it up.

01:20:43.000 I was like, I was there.

01:20:45.000 I can kind of remember.

01:20:46.000 I remember him being pissed that he thought he'd lost, and you came in and told him that he didn't actually lose.

01:20:51.000 Yeah, is that the dude he fought's a beast?

01:20:56.000 This is a weird time.

01:20:58.000 Weird time for the sport, man.

01:21:01.000 This is like a transitionary period, I feel like.

01:21:04.000 And Conor is such a gigantic star that he's almost eclipsed the sport.

01:21:11.000 Who was it?

01:21:12.000 It wasn't Ozdemir.

01:21:14.000 It wasn't?

01:21:15.000 No.

01:21:16.000 Oh, Volkan Ozdemir is the guy who's going to fight.

01:21:18.000 Yeah, he's going to fight.

01:21:22.000 Lights out guy.

01:21:25.000 That's hilarious.

01:21:26.000 Just pull up the last card.

01:21:30.000 Yeah.

01:21:35.000 It's not Alexi Olenek.

01:21:37.000 Is it?

01:21:40.000 Curtis Blades defeated Alexi Olenek. 0.91

01:21:43.000 Yeah, Curtis Blades beat the shit out of him. 0.90

01:21:45.000 Yeah, that's right.

01:21:47.000 Curtis Blades is a really interesting prospect.

01:21:49.000 He's a big, big kid.

01:21:51.000 He's super athletic.

01:21:52.000 And he threw an illegal kick, but it literally just touched the ear.

01:21:57.000 That was the God beer Walt Harris.

01:21:59.000 That was the illegal kick.

01:22:00.000 That was God beer Walt Harris.

01:22:01.000 Yeah, the other one was a doctor stoppage.

01:22:04.000 Right, but wasn't there something that happened in that fight that was also controversial?

01:22:10.000 I think he was beating him up, and then there was a...

01:22:13.000 I'm trying to remember how it stopped.

01:22:15.000 I think it was...

01:22:16.000 Who did Godbeard fight?

01:22:17.000 He fought Walt Harris.

01:22:18.000 He got head kicked.

01:22:19.000 Correct.

01:22:19.000 Yeah, and Godbeard got the win on that.

01:22:20.000 Right.

01:22:21.000 But then when Curtis Blades, he accidentally kicked him in the ear, or he just touched his ear.

01:22:28.000 Referee stopped the fight after Blades delivered an illegal kick to a downed opponent. 0.83

01:22:32.000 Yeah.

01:22:33.000 Doctor called in to check on him.

01:22:34.000 See, that kick barely touched his ear.

01:22:37.000 He was already done.

01:22:39.000 Yeah, you're right.

01:22:39.000 He was hurting really bad.

01:22:42.000 Curtis was putting a beating on him.

01:22:43.000 And when he went down, Curtis threw this wild kick.

01:22:47.000 And just touched, I mean, literally touched his ear.

01:22:50.000 It did not hit him.

01:22:51.000 But the referee saw the contact and then went to the instant replay to make sure that he was okay.

01:22:56.000 As soon as the referee saw the instant replay, he's like, okay, Clary's okay. 0.99

01:22:59.000 But the doctors looked at him and they asked him, like, dude, this guy's fucked up. 0.99

01:23:02.000 Like, this fight's over. 0.99

01:23:04.000 And I think he said that it was over.

01:23:06.000 He said he couldn't continue.

01:23:07.000 I was bringing that up to begin with.

01:23:08.000 Do you know how the instant replay worked?

01:23:10.000 No.

01:23:11.000 Do they all just get into a huddle and watch the video or is there someone?

01:23:14.000 I would imagine the referee probably watches it and they probably watch it with like Mark Ratner, one of the officials, you know, and they look at it and make an informed decision, you know, and I don't know what the parameters of that are.

01:23:28.000 I don't know who gets the call.

01:23:30.000 But I would imagine there's very little disagreement when someone's looking at film like that because they're not biased.

01:23:36.000 If you have John McCarthy and Herb Dean, they're looking at film.

01:23:40.000 I guarantee you they're going to agree on what it is. 0.99

01:23:43.000 And there's a lot of dispute about that kind of shit. 0.98

01:23:48.000 It's really important to have those guys that are completely on top of the rules. 0.99

01:23:52.000 There was one fight...

01:23:54.000 Where Tim Means fought Cowboy Oliveira and he hit him while he was down.

01:24:00.000 Do you remember that?

01:24:00.000 And we were trying to figure out whether or not it was legal.

01:24:06.000 And I believe it was Dan Mergliata.

01:24:11.000 And we even got Mark Ratner on the air, and Mark Ratner thought it was a legal knee, because he was down on one knee with one foot and no hands.

01:24:20.000 He's like, under the new rules, that would be legal.

01:24:24.000 And Big John McCarthy says, no, it's not.

01:24:26.000 If anything from your feet, other than the soles of your feet, are down on the ground, you're still a downed opponent.

01:24:32.000 I was like, oh.

01:24:34.000 So he had to explain it to me after the fight.

01:24:36.000 Because everybody always calls it three points of contact.

01:24:38.000 But Oliveira literally did not have a foot on the ground.

01:24:41.000 He just had his knee.

01:24:43.000 His foot was up in the air.

01:24:44.000 And his other foot was touching the ground.

01:24:46.000 And he got kneed in the face.

01:24:48.000 And we got kneed in the face.

01:24:50.000 They said it was an illegal knee.

01:24:51.000 And we were like, how is that the case?

01:24:53.000 Because there's only two points of contact.

01:24:56.000 There's the knee and the foot.

01:24:58.000 Like, you're not talking about knee, a foot, and a hand.

01:25:00.000 It's just two points of contact.

01:25:02.000 But apparently, it can't be anything other than the ball of your feet.

01:25:06.000 What it could be is, you have both balls of your feet down on the ground, but you have one hand down.

01:25:13.000 That's three points of contact.

01:25:14.000 And under the new rules, that would be legal.

01:25:18.000 Under the old rules, if you touch the ground at all, it's illegal.

01:25:24.000 Super confusing, right?

01:25:26.000 So in that one, it was really important to have a referee like Big John waiting right there.

01:25:33.000 Yeah, see?

01:25:34.000 He smashes him.

01:25:36.000 Like, see how he's got...

01:25:37.000 The knee means more than one, right?

01:25:40.000 That's what they were going with.

01:25:41.000 Well, I think when it landed, that right foot was elevated and was off the ground.

01:25:48.000 Didn't something similar happen where the guy delivering the knees like lifted them up off the ground?

01:25:53.000 Yeah.

01:25:53.000 To sort of get them off the ground to...

01:25:55.000 Yes.

01:25:56.000 Yeah, guys have done that.

01:25:58.000 To lift them up off the ground and slam knees into their body because they were touching with their hands.

01:26:02.000 You can do that.

01:26:03.000 That's legal.

01:26:05.000 It is a weird rule.

01:26:07.000 And it's a rule that we're going to have to figure out what makes sense.

01:26:12.000 Because the knees to the head to a downed opponent...

01:26:16.000 I feel like that almost makes sense.

01:26:18.000 Because that is a real, legitimate move.

01:26:22.000 And if someone can do that to you, why is that different?

01:26:26.000 Is it too easy?

01:26:28.000 Like, why is that different than being able to elbow someone in the face when they're on the ground?

01:26:33.000 Because it hits harder?

01:26:34.000 Is that what it is?

01:26:35.000 Okay.

01:26:35.000 So it's better.

01:26:36.000 So I can't use it because it's better.

01:26:38.000 So you can just elbow me all day long in the face, but you can't knee me in the head and put me out of my miseries.

01:26:44.000 I don't know who's right or who's wrong, but it's an effective martial arts technique, and they've eliminated it supposedly for the safety of the fighters.

01:26:51.000 But you've got to figure out, like, what's legal and what's not legal.

01:26:55.000 Like, here's another thing.

01:26:57.000 This is a fascinating fight that just took place between Matt Brown and Diego Sanchez.

01:27:03.000 Crazy wild fight as long as it lasted. 0.99

01:27:05.000 Matt Brown lands this fucking beautiful elbow. 0.99

01:27:08.000 He palms him away and just BOOM! Drops this beautiful elbow on him. 1.00

01:27:13.000 I mean it was just picture perfect.

01:27:16.000 And Diego goes limp like a sniper just shot him from the sixth floor depository.

01:27:21.000 I mean it was perfect.

01:27:24.000 It's like the perfect KO. But Diego was complaining that it was the back of the head.

01:27:31.000 But here's the thing. 0.98

01:27:32.000 Nobody gives a shit if it's the back of the head if you're standing up. 0.99

01:27:34.000 Watch this. 0.99

01:27:35.000 Boom! 0.99

01:27:36.000 Look how he goes limp. 1.00

01:27:37.000 I mean, Diego Sanchez is a fucking warrior, dude. 1.00

01:27:40.000 For him to go limp like that, look at this. 1.00

01:27:43.000 Boom! 0.99

01:27:44.000 Totally on the back of the head.

01:27:47.000 But that's okay when you're standing up.

01:27:49.000 That's what's weird. 0.52

01:27:50.000 If you punch somebody in the back of the head, like when Matt Serra fought George, I'm pretty sure some of those shots he blasted them with, he hit them in the back of the head.

01:27:57.000 It might have even been the first one.

01:27:59.000 Because if you're swinging sometimes and your hand goes around, like your hand hits the back of the head all the time.

01:28:05.000 Head kicks, head kicks hit the back of the head all the time. 1.00

01:28:10.000 Like if you neck kick somebody... 0.98

01:28:13.000 Like if you go over, like say if someone's standing with their left shoulder to you, if you go over that left shoulder and drop down with that kick, that neck kick, shit, that a lot of times goes in the back of the head. 0.96

01:28:26.000 That's a lot of times where it's landing. 0.96

01:28:27.000 It's coming around.

01:28:28.000 You're coming over the shoulder.

01:28:30.000 You're literally slamming your foot, the instep, right into the back of that dude's head. 0.99

01:28:36.000 And that's a hard fucking impact from a leg. 0.99

01:28:40.000 Happens all the time. 0.99

01:28:41.000 It's totally legal.

01:28:42.000 It's weird.

01:28:42.000 Because if you get on the ground, they'll go, watch the back of the head!

01:28:45.000 Watch the back of the head!

01:28:46.000 Like, even from the mount.

01:28:48.000 I mean, even from the guard, rather.

01:28:49.000 If you're in someone's guard, you're punching them. 0.90

01:28:51.000 Watch the back of the head. 0.80

01:28:53.000 Everybody's watching the back of the head.

01:28:54.000 How about protect the back of your head?

01:28:57.000 No one says, watch your eyes!

01:28:58.000 Don't hit the eyes!

01:28:59.000 You don't say don't hit the eyes, but the back of the head's off limits?

01:29:03.000 It seems like a good spot to hit.

01:29:05.000 Like, what are we doing?

01:29:07.000 I mean, well, it's so dangerous.

01:29:09.000 Everything's dangerous.

01:29:10.000 This is fighting.

01:29:12.000 This is MMA. Look, shouldn't you know what works the best?

01:29:17.000 If you can elbow someone in the back of the head sometimes, how come you can't do it all the time?

01:29:22.000 I'm not saying that anybody should change that result.

01:29:24.000 The result was perfect.

01:29:25.000 Matt Brown by KO. I'm not saying that.

01:29:27.000 What I'm saying is, open it up.

01:29:30.000 Let guys do whatever they want to do.

01:29:34.000 And no gloves.

01:29:35.000 I'm tired of saying this.

01:29:36.000 Take the gloves away.

01:29:39.000 No wraps.

01:29:40.000 No hand wraps.

01:29:42.000 That would save a lot.

01:29:44.000 You would not be able to get away with nearly as much.

01:29:46.000 Everybody would look like John Wayne Parr though.

01:29:47.000 You'd be all cut up.

01:29:49.000 But I just think it's more realistic.

01:29:52.000 It's just so weird to me.

01:29:53.000 You put pads on your knuckles, but you're allowed to elbow someone in the eyeball.

01:29:58.000 Like, what?

01:30:01.000 Oh, you're protecting your hands.

01:30:02.000 Well, that seems like cheating.

01:30:04.000 You should be, like, if you only hit someone with your hands so hard, that should be how hard you can hit them. 0.99

01:30:09.000 Shouldn't be able to fucking put them in a cast. 0.99

01:30:12.000 I mean, that's what you're doing. 0.99

01:30:13.000 You put them in, like, a soft, leather-covered cast.

01:30:18.000 That's why that Margarita fight was, you know, when Margarita got busted with Shane Mosley, when they found cement in his gloves?

01:30:25.000 They took it too far.

01:30:27.000 But that's what it is.

01:30:28.000 You're making it so you can hit someone harder.

01:30:33.000 It hurts almost as much.

01:30:35.000 It doesn't have the sharpness to it that someone has when they hit you with bare knuckle.

01:30:40.000 Bare knuckle has like a sharpness.

01:30:43.000 But the amount of power that someone can generate just...

01:30:48.000 With no regards to their own safety is more.

01:30:51.000 They can swing, drop bombs on you.

01:30:54.000 Did he get caught because of that picture?

01:30:56.000 Because they saw it?

01:30:57.000 I do not know.

01:30:59.000 Did they see it there?

01:31:00.000 You could see it there?

01:31:01.000 It's hard to tell what that is.

01:31:02.000 It's broken.

01:31:03.000 That's what that other picture was sort of alluding to.

01:31:06.000 Can you make that bigger?

01:31:07.000 As far as it'll zoom in.

01:31:08.000 It's hard to tell what that is.

01:31:09.000 That could just be the gauze that's all wet.

01:31:11.000 I mean, it's after the fight.

01:31:13.000 It looks like it cracked.

01:31:14.000 I guess that's what they're trying to say.

01:31:16.000 Whoa, really?

01:31:18.000 I mean, I don't know that gauze shouldn't crack like that, right?

01:31:20.000 It should rip?

01:31:21.000 Yo, imagine if that's the case. 1.00

01:31:22.000 What if it really did turn into, like, hard shit? 1.00

01:31:25.000 Like real plaster? 1.00

01:31:26.000 There's the thing.

01:31:29.000 Whoa.

01:31:30.000 See, I don't know how they found it.

01:31:31.000 You know what I mean?

01:31:31.000 How did he get caught?

01:31:32.000 I don't know either.

01:31:34.000 I think someone from Sugar Shane Mosley's team watched him wrap his hands.

01:31:41.000 I think you're allowed to watch your opponent wrap their hands and he noticed something in the wraps and had it pulled out.

01:31:47.000 So then everybody decided that that's what he had been doing his whole career, which is why he had been smashing people.

01:31:53.000 Because he had been smashing a lot of people.

01:31:55.000 He just had more power.

01:31:58.000 More pop.

01:31:59.000 His loaded gloves.

01:32:01.000 Prior to the 2009 Sugar Shane Mosley-Antonio Margarita fight, Mosley's trainer, Nazeem Richardson, was in the Margarito dressing room so he could observe Margarito's hands getting wrapped prior to putting on boxing gloves.

01:32:15.000 As Margarito's trainers were wrapping their fighters' hands, Richardson noticed what appeared to be a plaster of Paris powder on the wraps.

01:32:26.000 The plaster of Paris hardens when it comes into contact with moisture.

01:32:31.000 And any fighter will sweat during the course of a fight. 1.00

01:32:35.000 Oh, shit. 0.99

01:32:36.000 As soon as Richardson saw the substance, he accused Margarito of fighting with loaded gloves. 1.00

01:32:41.000 Margarito's hands were rewrapped and Mosley hammered Margarito. 0.97

01:32:45.000 He did, too. 0.98

01:32:46.000 He beat the shit out of him that day. 0.98

01:32:47.000 I bet that dude felt guilty. 0.99

01:32:50.000 Knowing that you were going to try to fight a world champion like Sugar Shane, but you were trying to cheat.

01:33:00.000 Yeah, that's not good.

01:33:01.000 But I think that bare knuckle would be different.

01:33:04.000 I think it would be better for submissions for sure.

01:33:07.000 Way easier to secure chokes.

01:33:10.000 Your hands slip behind things.

01:33:12.000 Way easier when there's no gloves.

01:33:14.000 And it'd be way harder to hit somebody.

01:33:16.000 You would have a really hard time if someone ducked and you hit the top of their forehead.

01:33:20.000 You could easily break your hand.

01:33:22.000 Like, people break their hands all the time in that way.

01:33:27.000 What else did I want to talk about?

01:33:29.000 I think that might be it, dude.

01:33:33.000 We covered it all.

01:33:34.000 Aldo, Max Holloway, we covered that a little bit.

01:33:37.000 I want to see if Aldo still can compete at a world-class level and improve.

01:33:46.000 Because you know that he can compete at a world-class level.

01:33:48.000 You've seen the last few fights that he's had.

01:33:50.000 He still, I mean, other than the fight that he had with Conor, where Conor starched him, did he fight Frankie Edgar right after he fought Conor?

01:34:01.000 I believe he did.

01:34:03.000 I believe that's who he won the title from.

01:34:07.000 Is that who it was?

01:34:09.000 Yeah, and he outboxed him.

01:34:13.000 You know, he fought a guy in Max Holloway that's at the top of his game.

01:34:19.000 Top of his game for now and with more height to come.

01:34:24.000 But, I mean, he's just peaking.

01:34:25.000 He's just ramping it up right now. 1.00

01:34:28.000 Max is a fucking beast. 0.99

01:34:30.000 So it's interesting to see whether or not Aldo can recover. 1.00

01:34:32.000 And he doesn't have a full camp for this fight either.

01:34:35.000 You know, he had to take this fight on, I want to say, four weeks' notice.

01:34:40.000 See if that's true.

01:34:41.000 I don't want to lie.

01:34:44.000 But...

01:34:46.000 I think Max Holloway is one of the best up-and-coming fighters for sure in the world.

01:34:50.000 A world champion.

01:34:52.000 When I say up-and-coming, I mean up-and-coming in like the pound-for-pound sort of a way.

01:34:56.000 I mean, he's just got greatness written all over him.

01:34:59.000 If he just keeps up at this pace and he's got the attitude, he's got the skills, he's a straight killer.

01:35:05.000 But you can't look past an old warrior like Aldo.

01:35:08.000 Not saying that he is.

01:35:09.000 I bet he's not.

01:35:12.000 But everybody else can't look past it either. 0.98

01:35:15.000 Aldo's still fucking super dangerous. 0.96

01:35:17.000 He's going to be real motivated. 0.99

01:35:19.000 And a win by Aldo would be gigantic.

01:35:23.000 At this stage of the game, if Aldo could bounce back the way he bounced back from the McGregor fight and outbox Frankie, if he could bounce back in some way, figure out what he did wrong in that first fight, and solve the puzzle, woo!

01:35:41.000 That's big.

01:35:42.000 That's a big fight.

01:35:43.000 And the other fight, we talked about Tyron Woodley and Nate Diaz.

01:35:48.000 That's the other one.

01:35:49.000 That's crazy.

01:35:50.000 Five days ago, I found that it says he was supposed to fight Ricardo Lamas two weeks later.

01:35:56.000 And now he's been bumped up to this.

01:35:58.000 So it was only five days ago they made that fight?

01:36:00.000 I guess so, yeah.

01:36:01.000 Whoa.

01:36:02.000 And so he only has two weeks then.

01:36:04.000 Yeah, so, yeah, November 11th, multiple outlets have confirmed Otto will replace Frankie Edgar, so I guess that was when they announced it.

01:36:10.000 Jesus Christ.

01:36:12.000 That's crazy.

01:36:15.000 Well, I hope he's training a lot.

01:36:17.000 I hope he's in great shape.

01:36:18.000 I hope the weight cut isn't too much either, because he's a big guy.

01:36:21.000 At least he was for a while.

01:36:22.000 He leaned out quite a bit.

01:36:24.000 I think he was having a really hard time making that cut from, like, well into, like...

01:36:28.000 He looked like he was about 170-something, and then he cut down to 145, and...

01:36:34.000 Real hard for him.

01:36:35.000 He would suffer in the last round of fights.

01:36:37.000 Like, if he didn't smoke guys early on, sometimes he faded towards the end, like he did with Ricardo Lamas.

01:36:43.000 Like, the end of the fight, Lamas was on top of him.

01:36:45.000 Like, he had done enough to win, for sure.

01:36:47.000 But at the end, he was fading.

01:36:49.000 He was getting tired.

01:36:50.000 And I think a big part of that was probably just getting the water sucked out of you.

01:36:55.000 You know, those guys, they torture themselves, man.

01:36:58.000 The card for this weekend.

01:36:59.000 Yeah.

01:36:59.000 Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun.

01:37:02.000 For Doom and Tubora is interesting.

01:37:04.000 I like that.

01:37:05.000 Tim Means and Bilal Muhammad.

01:37:07.000 That's a serious fight.

01:37:09.000 Some good fights on that card.

01:37:12.000 Alright, and that is when?

01:37:13.000 Saturday?

01:37:13.000 Yes, Saturday night.

01:37:15.000 Saturday night.

01:37:15.000 Australia.

01:37:16.000 Oh, shit. 1.00

01:37:17.000 Australia. 1.00

01:37:18.000 I'll be in.

01:37:20.000 I'm gonna be in Phoenix.

01:37:22.000 I'm gonna be in Phoenix, Arizona.

01:37:24.000 I'm gonna get to see Mike Goldberg.

01:37:26.000 I haven't seen Mike in forever.

01:37:28.000 He's killing it in Bellator, man.

01:37:30.000 I like the fact that Bellator exists, you know?

01:37:33.000 I love the UFC. The UFC is my home.

01:37:36.000 I'm not doing commentary for anybody ever.

01:37:38.000 The UFC is like family to me.

01:37:41.000 But I think competition's important.

01:37:44.000 I think it's important for everything.

01:37:46.000 I think these systems competing with each other makes them greater.

01:37:49.000 I think the more opportunities that young fighters have to perform and fight in, the more you're going to see higher and higher level of ability and performance, level of fighting knowledge.

01:38:01.000 Just this more competition is higher level for the UFC, it's higher level for Bellator.

01:38:07.000 Everybody's going to accelerate.

01:38:09.000 This is a growing thing right now.

01:38:12.000 And as long as they're not competing with each other on the same night, as long as they don't do anything dumb and have fights on the same night, I think they complement each other.

01:38:20.000 I really do.

01:38:21.000 I think there's some fighters that will do better in Bellator.

01:38:24.000 I think there's some fighters that prefer to be in the UFC. It's all good, man.

01:38:28.000 It's all good, you know?

01:38:30.000 The UFC has... 0.59

01:38:32.000 Way more world-class fighters, but Bellator's got some tough motherfuckers, some real legit world-class fighters too now, and their roster's growing. 0.93

01:38:42.000 Like, Rory McDonald is one of the best fucking welterweights on the planet, and he's over there now. 0.93

01:38:47.000 I hope we get him back. 0.96

01:38:48.000 I really do.

01:38:49.000 I love commentating his fights.

01:38:50.000 Lorenz Larkin's over there now.

01:38:52.000 Lamas, like, there's a bunch of guys.

01:38:56.000 Diego Lima. 0.96

01:38:59.000 I think Douglas Lima is one of the best fucking welterweights on the planet, for sure. 0.95

01:39:06.000 His brother Diego, I think, is still fighting for the UFC. But there's a bunch of talent over there now, like real legit talent. 0.92

01:39:15.000 It's good.

01:39:16.000 It's good for everybody.

01:39:17.000 It's good for the sport.

01:39:19.000 Gives people opportunities, makes people raise their games up.

01:39:23.000 For the athletes, the more Michael Chandlers are out there, the boogeymen in the woods.

01:39:28.000 Michael Chandler is a boogeyman in the 155-pound division.

01:39:31.000 He's terrifying for everybody.

01:39:32.000 It doesn't matter what organization you fight for. 0.99

01:39:35.000 That guy's a straight-up killer.

01:39:37.000 So there's enough really dangerous world-class fighters over there in Bellator for it to be excitingly competitive for everybody.

01:39:45.000 I think it's good.

01:39:46.000 And I like that Goldie's got a gig, because I love him.

01:39:49.000 So, I think that's it.

01:39:51.000 I think we did more than an hour.

01:39:52.000 We're going to call it the hour. 0.99

01:39:53.000 But I'm a Bible mouth motherfucker, and I can't stop talking. 1.00

01:40:00.000 I don't feel the need to apologize for anything I said. 0.99

01:40:02.000 I don't think I fucked up and offended anybody.

01:40:05.000 If I did, I'm going to blame it on the weed. 0.73

01:40:07.000 Anything to add, Young Jamie?

01:40:09.000 No, I think that was a good first.

01:40:11.000 Episode one.

01:40:13.000 I think we'll do this more often.

01:40:15.000 Okay.

01:40:15.000 I'm not guaranteeing every week, but we'll keep it close.

01:40:20.000 All right.

The Joe Rogan Experience - December 24, 2009

JRE MMA Show #1

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