In this episode of Train By Day, Joe Rogan talks about his experience doing a sauna and ice bath in Finland, and how it has changed his life. Joe also talks about the benefits of cold plunging and ice baths at night, and why you should do them in the morning before you get ready for a morning workout. Also, Joe talks about how to get the most out of your training and how to recover from a hard day. If you like what you hear, please HIT SUBSCRIBE on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your stuff. It helps spread the word about the podcast and keep it going. Thank you so much for being a part of this community, and I hope you enjoy this episode! -Joe Rogan Podcast Learn more about your ad choices.Make sure to rate, review and subscribe to our other podcast, The Joe Rogans Experience, wherever you re listening to this podcast. Thanks for listening, and Happy Training! Cheers, Joe and Rory XOXO. -Jon and Rory. Check it out! -Jon & Rory - Training by Day, Training by Night, All Day, All Night, By Night, by Night. Jon and Rory - Training By Day - Joe's Podcasts: Jon Rogan Experience: By Night - By Night: By Day: Train by Day & Training By Night by Night by Rory's Sauna & Ice Bath by Night - by Night by Day - By Morning - By Day by Night? Subscribe to our Podcasts by Night: by Rory and Rory's Podcast: by Night's Day, by Day and Night, all day, By Day & Night, Day & Day, By Morning, By Evening, by Evening, By Sleep, by Nights, by Morning, by Sleep by Day by Day? -By Day & Sleep by Night & Night by Sleep By Day and Day, -Day & Night & Day by Sleep & Day & By Night - By Sleep By Night By Day - Day & Nights by Day/Night, All By Night & By Sleep & Night - All Day & Evening by Day By Day/By Night, etc. , All Day By Night! -Sauna by Night By Night and Night & Evening - What's a Sauna and Sauna -What's a Good Day? -By Night & Other? - By Any Other? ,
00:01:46.000There's like a metal walkway that you can't see, so it looks like you're just walking into the water at night, but there's like a little walkway, like a railway underwater, and you can hold onto the rail and do your lap.
00:01:58.000And I think I did it like maybe four times, like four sessions, and it was one of the best things at the end of the night.
00:02:14.000I love to do it before a podcast because it empties my brain.
00:02:18.000Because the sauna, I put it at 189 degrees, and today I did 15 minutes on, and then I did three minutes in the ice bath, and then I had a run here.
00:02:37.000I feel like if I do that in the morning, I feel alive.
00:02:40.000I don't have to do this crazy hard workout.
00:02:43.000Just sauna and ice tub in the morning, I feel really revitalized, rejuvenated.
00:02:48.000That's something that I think more athletes and more fighters in particular need to concentrate on is the recovery stuff.
00:02:55.000There's a lot of guys who just train like animals and just hope their body is going to recover just naturally from hard work and eating well.
00:03:04.000But I think things like hardcore stretching, yoga if you can get it in, hot yoga, and particularly sauna and ice bath, they're so beneficial.
00:03:14.000Yeah, my conditioning coach, who's like a gigantic fan of you, What's his name?
00:04:11.000So, one of the cool things, too, is, like, doing sauna, ice bath, or, you know, like, cold plunge, but also with this tumor breathing, I feel like something that really helped elevate and, like, activate everything in my body was I took a small little, like, chocolate microdose mushroom.
00:04:33.000I ate a little piece of chocolate and then like kind of let that settle in.
00:04:36.000We were like calming down and then got into this breathing exercise and when I tell you just there like I just felt so full like my brain was firing differently just so many sensations that I felt that were just like they felt like they were very healthy and like very powerful like I needed those things it was it was a really cool uh cool experience to mix it with uh With the mushrooms a little bit.
00:05:02.000I think microdosing mushrooms is the future.
00:05:05.000I think if people did that, first of all, it doesn't affect your cognitive function in a negative way, like your ability to think or talk or do work or anything like that, but it puts you in such a good place.
00:06:00.000You know, like stretching and breathing into stretches and, you know, if you were to microdose and do yoga or something like that, I'm sure it would be something that's...
00:07:14.000It's been cool to be able to Yeah, just kind of bring new instruments and techniques into training and make it more exciting and more about fighting and, you know, Focusing more on just like my overall health and yeah ability, you know, just like ability mentally physically Emotionally, right?
00:07:40.000Yeah, but that's one things that mushrooms and low-dose psychedelics and low-dose Marijuana can do for you.
00:07:48.000It's just like You concentrate on your overall being when you're training.
00:07:54.000You feel things that you don't ordinarily feel.
00:07:57.000And sometimes I dismiss it when I train sober for a long time.
00:09:22.000And just that mentality, the beat and the drums, you just feel like this, I don't know, like a badass martial artist in a way, like a street martial artist.
00:09:34.000When we drive to shows, like when we leave the hotel and then we go to the arena, whenever I'm doing comedy, we listen to Protect Your Neck.
00:09:42.000That's the first thing we listen to when we get in the car.
00:09:44.000Either gravel pit or protect your neck.
00:10:31.00080. Okay, so yeah, so that's that's when rap was essentially modern rap was essentially born and then you know 10 years later 15 years later, you know, you got cool G rap and DJ polo you got all those 90s hip-hop guys Yep, you know correct that's officially released on September 16th, 1970 Did you get to see the Wu-Tang Saga at all on Hulu?
00:10:58.000No I hadn't been excited about a show in a long time.
00:11:06.000I saw the Wu-Tang Saga, and some people have certain, you know, whatever their opinions on it, but I think to be able to see the background of every single member of Wu-Tang, right?
00:11:19.000So it follows each character individually and how they all came together.
00:11:24.000And Ashton Sanders, Saunders, who plays the RZA, And just there is a scene in season two where he's sampling the music and it takes him into this like all black room where the, I can't even remember the group that he was sampling, but they pop up.
00:11:50.000And they're each playing their instruments.
00:11:51.000And then as he turns it down on the keyboard, or as he turns it down on the board, then the guy's still singing, but you can't hear him anymore.
00:13:06.000Apparently he was on set for a lot of the scenes and stuff, just kind of overseeing everything or giving his input on this is how it is.
00:13:15.000But yeah, being someone who loves to make music and produce beats and stuff, it When I saw that scene, I had to rewind it.
00:13:23.000I had to replay it because I'm like, yeah, exactly.
00:13:25.000When you're listening, when you're trying to create music and maybe if you're sampling, you might just hear the guitar and you don't want the drums or you don't want the sing.
00:13:33.000So you turn that down and you're like, ah, that's the feeling that I want to sample.
00:13:37.000So when I saw that, I mean, that was season two, but I was already sold on the show before, you know.
00:13:47.000The interesting thing about hip-hop is that it was the first musical genre, at least a popular musical genre, that sampled stuff.
00:13:56.000Like in that, they, and they, it, what, you know, it made the songs more interesting because you heard a little bit of an old song in there, and you're like, oh, I remember that beat, but then it's all these new lyrics over that beat that changes what that beat is, and it's like, There was this, you know, there was like a lot of debate in the early days of sampling.
00:14:42.000It's like someone created this masterpiece already, and I took my favorite part from it and maybe just looped it or sped it up and then kind of made a version of it.
00:14:56.000You've just made this amazing, you know, piece of music that I can now listen to on repeat or listen to in a way that, you know, translates to me in a certain way and to millions more.
00:15:15.000There's been bands that have gotten in trouble because they have a riff that sounds exactly like an old riff that's on a record and they don't give the other band credit.
00:15:39.000I'm pretty sure that's true, because I remember that song being really interesting, but the beginning of it was too close to a Rolling Stones song, and they lost in court.
00:15:50.000Like the orchestra sound, like that melody?
00:17:09.000Received permission from Decca, who released the album.
00:17:13.000Okay, so the Verve received permission from DECA, the record label that had released the orchestral album, to use a few notes of the string melody from the Andrew Oldham Orchestra Instrumentals in exchange for half of the Verve's royalties on Bittersweet Symphony.
00:17:29.000What was the song that was the Rolling Stones song that was...
00:18:03.000Well, that's sort of the issue, I think, is if they had permission, they had an agreement already in place, and then something in that agreement changed.
00:18:12.000I was going to give you a better example before you brought that up, is the I'll Be Missing You, when Puff Daddy took that from the police.
00:20:04.000I read this even through a different article where he was being interviewed with one of his bandmates from the police, and that guy was bitching about how he's not getting any money from it.
00:20:14.000Sting's taking all of it, and the way he's complaining about not having a chateau in Italy or something, he's like, we don't have chateaus in Italy, we have them in France.
00:20:35.000That music business is a weird business.
00:20:37.000You know, like guys who are in a band together, the band can be massive, but two guys are like the head guys in the band, and they make all the money.
00:21:06.000You know, had all of the kind of like business decisions and like, hey, I need you guys to sign this.
00:21:10.000I need you guys to sign these contracts so we can get this money to make this music.
00:21:13.000And, you know, they kind of trusted him and did it.
00:21:18.000And I guess it just it didn't end up really being like a good deal for everybody.
00:21:23.000They go over it a little bit in the show, but I think there's another documentary that kind of goes a little bit more in depth, you know, with all that stuff.
00:23:48.000Yeah, there's still a good number of hip-hop artists nowadays that still kind of produce the same type of stuff.
00:23:58.000One of my favorite artists right now, he goes by Navy Blue, and he's kind of like an underground guy, but he's just got lyrics and poetry.
00:24:06.000And you can get lost in just listening to him speak because you have to kind of put together the things that he's saying.
00:24:12.000So you listen to the song a couple times and you're like, oh wow, okay, that makes sense.
00:24:16.000Have you ever seen, there's a video from like the 1930s, and it's like, it says, I saw it on YouTube, it was a question mark, like is this the first ever rap?
00:24:28.000And it's these dudes rhyming to music on some television show.
00:28:28.000So I've been really, really focused and like intrigued in this whole Bitcoin thing lately.
00:28:36.000I've been doing a lot of research and just like trying to get my own understanding.
00:28:39.000I went to the Bitcoin conference in Miami this year and just got to see and hear Some really, really cool things.
00:28:49.000And the people who are pioneering this and really believing in Bitcoin specifically, not just the whole world of cryptocurrency, but Bitcoin itself, I haven't been excited about something like this in a really long time.
00:30:19.000In North Korea, when women are taken as sex lives and shipped over to Northern China, where these guys are buying them because China has this one-child rule in certain areas, right?
00:30:33.000So, if the woman, if the sex slave has a child, then that child is half North Korean and half Chinese and the Chinese won't accept them and they can't go back to North Korea because the women kind of like escaped, right?
00:30:50.000Because of that, there's actually what she said are pretty much millions of stateless children who can't get birth certificates, who can't get schooling, who can't get anything, and they're either sent to prison camps as children or killed because what are they going to do with them?
00:31:09.000China doesn't accept them and they can't go back to North Korea, so what happens, right?
00:31:13.000So there's like underground church groups that are actually taking these kids in and because they can't use Chinese money and they, you know, because it's happening in China, because they can't use Chinese money, the only currency that they can use right now is Bitcoin.
00:31:29.000And so people are able to fund them so that they can at least school these kids and feed them and things like that.
00:31:37.000So from a currency and money standpoint, there's a small fraction where I'm like, okay, I see how this works.
00:31:44.000But then trying to uncover and dive more into the whole...
00:31:50.000This system of how this can be implemented into just like daily society, I'm seeing more and more possibility, and it's making me more and more secure on, hey man, I can actually finally have something that I own that's mine.
00:32:06.000Like, whatever I earn is going to be mine, and you can't touch it.
00:32:21.000Now they've created this thing where if you want to have your own platform and not worry about being taken down or censored or whatever, and you can also get paid in Satoshis, which are fractions of a Bitcoin, From the supporters.
00:33:34.000I think of Bitcoin the same way I think about the early internet.
00:33:37.000I think they didn't see it coming, and now it's a viable form of currency.
00:33:42.000You can actually buy things with it, and I think the government is freaking out.
00:33:45.000I think what they're going to try to do...
00:33:47.000Is they tried to do some shit with the internet during the Obama administration where they were going to try to censor the internet and it fell apart because people were furious in the uproar and they thought the political repercussions of it were not worth it.
00:34:00.000Like the juice wasn't worth the squeeze so they backed off of it.
00:34:03.000But I feel that there's going to come a time where some government, whether it's the United States or another government might try it first, they're going to try to implement, I know they already do it in China, but they're going to try to implement a digital currency, a centralized digital currency that they can control.
00:34:19.000What's scary about that is they could say, Khalil, we've looked at your behavior online, and you have some marks against you, and so you're not going to be able to buy this.
00:34:48.000The more that I hear and the more that I see just the world evolving and...
00:34:56.000Governments getting more strict or people getting censored.
00:34:59.000And the more that I see parts of freedoms getting stripped away, the more that I'm like, okay, what can I do to kind of get a little bit more control over what's mine for the sake of my own future?
00:35:12.000And so, yeah, just like the currency exchange in North Korea where like, Hey, it doesn't matter if you're a millionaire or a billionaire or if you have zero money in your account, starting, you know, next week, turn in your money and get exchange for, you know, for what?
00:35:31.000Which, you know, me also says, like, you know, when that happened, if you were a millionaire, then you had to trade in your money for the amount of two bags of kilos or two kilos of rice is what the money that the government gave you.
00:37:34.000I think this was one of the biggest things that really just kind of helped me just pivot in my thinking and really wanting to secure a future for myself moving forward.
00:37:47.000You're a great fighter, but if someone didn't know you were a fighter and they just talked to you, they'd be like, oh, he's probably an artist or something.
00:38:17.000Like when you fought Eric Anders, you're standing up straight and you were very Thai-style, light on the front leg, and in this fight you're like hunkered down low and almost like a wrestler.
00:38:42.000There has been in the past, and I think just game plans for me sometimes require a bit too much thinking, when in reality, yeah, there's some thinking in fighting, but...
00:38:58.000I think it's good to have an idea of where I can finish the fight and where I want the fight to go and kind of stick to that.
00:39:06.000But if I get too attached to a game plan, then I might miss opportunities to do certain things in the moment.
00:39:14.000So is there a game plan involved in training?
00:40:28.000As if when I'm not fighting, I'm enjoying my family and I'm figuring out new ways to create a future for myself and invest money and get into more of a security mindset because I want to.
00:41:07.000You know, like, if I'm out here fighting and putting my life on the line and, like, for what we do, I mean, we all know it's no shot at the UFC. I'm very grateful for what I get paid, but, man, it's not enough.
00:41:24.000And so, like, I have to figure out ways to, you know...
00:41:29.000Have security for myself, but also to preserve my own life and my own body because I'm going in there with another guy who's a trained beast, you know, and like my face could get broken and, you know, so many different things can end my career at, you know, I don't know what the other guy's thinking, so I've got to do what I've got to do.
00:41:47.000So that's why I feel like lately I'm fighting for more my life than I am for a sport.
00:41:53.000You know, like, when I go in there, when I fight, you're facing me, like, the man, the person who, like, you kind of have to kill me to beat me in a way.
00:43:05.000But I felt like he went over to Bellator and I wish he kind of didn't.
00:43:10.000Because I think he was in the hunt at 170 in the UFC. I mean, I think he was one of the elite of the elite and he was still improving and growing.
00:43:19.000The problem with you going over to Bellator is I'm sure you're getting good money.
00:43:23.000I'm sure everything's great over there, but you got way less eyeballs.
00:44:41.000But when you throw it sideways, like when you have a sideways stance, like when you threw it, it was essentially like a front leg sidekick to the knee, right?
00:46:38.000Did you have long-term damage from that kick, from getting kicked like that in that fight in Abu Dhabi?
00:46:44.000I'd say, like, not long term because nothing was, like, torn or anything, but it was, like, there was, like, a stiffness for a good, like, two months.
00:46:52.000Yeah, because it was, like, right on the top of my knee, right, you know, like, right above the patella, and it was just, like, it just, for me to bend it all the way or stretch, I had to do a lot of, you know, stretching and things, icing, stuff to really fix it.
00:47:05.000Yeah, I mean, I talked to a lot of guys about this, and their thought is, like, why is it okay to do an inside heel hook and you can't stomp the knee?
00:47:13.000Like, of course, heel hooks are fucking devastating.
00:47:16.000I mean, remember the Paul Harris days?
00:47:24.000So, I mean, that was, like, the mentality switch kind of happened knowing that I was on my last UFC, you know, fight on the contract, and I knew that I just, I'm not done.
00:47:36.000I still want to continue to make the best run that I can, knowing internally that I gave my best efforts.
00:47:44.000You were thinking about being done at one time, though, fairly recently, right?
00:48:03.000Uh, because after I had spoken to you from being in Thailand and having that performance with Eric Anders, all that, um, I had reached a place where I felt like I was just happy with my life.
00:48:13.000And I was in Thailand and I saw just the quality of life there.
00:48:18.000And I had, you know, I had this idea that I was going to live there forever.
00:48:22.000And, um, I would have been happy just like serving coffee at a, you know, at a cool spot in You know, in Sukhumvit, Bangkok, you know, because like just the people there are so cool.
00:48:41.000And so I just I came to a point where I'm like, I think I'm striving for too much like in America.
00:48:47.000Like, just, I want to have all of these things.
00:48:50.000I want to have a big house and I want to have a lot of money when in reality, like, I don't absolutely need it all because I'm, I'm, my heart is full right now, you know?
00:48:59.000So I just, and I wanted to fight Muay Thai and the UFC were like, no, you can't do that.
00:49:05.000I wanted to fight in the stadium, you know, at Raja Damnarn Stadium.
00:49:09.000And my friend, who's like one of the biggest promoters in Thailand, was like, yeah, I can do it.
00:49:13.000And we can make it for the WBC heavyweight belt.
00:49:17.000And I was like, you mean the green one?
00:49:18.000He's like, yeah, we can make it at the stadium.
00:49:23.000But I had to get the clearance from UFC and obviously that's a hard no.
00:49:28.000And so I was so passionate about wanting to stay in Thailand and wanting to fight Muay Thai that I was willing to give up my last fight in the UFC and kind of become like a sensation in Thailand.
00:49:49.000I'm not worried, but I'm focused on, like, just creating something out of all of this, you know, for myself, for my family, you know, something like some type of generational wealth, man.
00:50:02.000But what made you make that adjustment?
00:50:05.000Instead of saying, I'm going to live in Thailand, live a simple life amongst these happy, smiling, friendly people, to, I'm back in the hunt.
00:50:14.000So during the pandemic, I was in Thailand.
00:50:18.000So I was locked down there for, yeah, for all of 2021, or 2020. My fiance and I were there and we decided we have to come back because at that time it was very hard to get any type of paperwork from the embassy and my debit card got lost.
00:53:09.000That's where I plan to also spend a good portion of my money, too, moving forward, is being able to fund a trip to the mountains or Big Bear or something where, like, hey, or even build something like Cowboys Ranch, something very small that, hey, we're in camp, and for the next eight weeks, we're in camp.
00:53:32.000And if you're my coach, you're here, and if you're my training partner, you're here, and the world doesn't exist.
00:55:47.000Yeah, so like if I were to tie up with you and not even go for a body, we're just playing a stand-up clinch game.
00:55:56.000And I'm controlling your entire body from the shoulders up and arms up.
00:56:02.000I'm very confident in that and I feel good about it and I owe it to being able to clinch for 45 minutes a day in Thailand for a couple of years.
00:56:11.000It's a real underrated aspect of Muay Thai.
00:56:13.000The clinch game and then the trip game.
00:56:17.000Trips and sweeps are some of my favorite things to do now.
00:56:21.000It all comes from being able to be a student of the game and see...
00:56:26.000One of the trainers, he didn't even really talk to me much, but one day I was training and he was like, if you don't have defense, you're not a fighter.
00:56:38.000Yeah, you can have all the offense in the world, but your defense sucks, so work on your defense.
00:56:43.000And that's checking kicks, blocking kicks, being able to identify offense and defense.
00:56:51.000Deliver full strikes and then defend fully.
00:56:55.000So they have a very simple way of putting things, but it's all for a reason.
01:04:59.000I think what's going to help me stay motivated and stay passionate about being here in the UFC and kind of going into this new run is having an equal balance in my life.
01:06:09.000They're not going to say it in front of you.
01:06:11.000Nah, it's definitely something that I watched, and there's some cheesy parts.
01:06:15.000but overall like the storyline and the fact that all of us really did go in there and like give our best I think it shows you know what I mean I think it shows and if you're a fan of oh yeah here's the trailer can you rewind it really quick with the sound is that possible okay and this is out uh it's on tubi yeah you stream it through tubi he wants you to throw the fight Trey goes down more later than round two.
01:08:46.000I can't say too much, but it has a lot to do with...
01:08:54.000How athletes and fighters and celebrities are always like we are often looked at in this light where people see us as like stars and like larger than life but don't really realize and remember that we're human beings and that we have the same you know Struggles and things as any other person.
01:09:14.000We have families, we have worries, we have bills, just like everybody else.
01:12:34.000Unfortunately, I'm just not that guy that wants to continue to go in there and go to war with people to hopefully win and hopefully make a living out of it.
01:12:44.000You have a lot of potential to do a lot of different things.
01:12:47.000One of the things that I think you could do and you could be really successful at that would leave you independent is being a podcaster.
01:12:56.000I thought that from the first time we did it together, and I was like, yeah, 100%.
01:13:00.000Because you have an interesting take on things, and you're a very smart guy, and you've been around the world, you've seen a lot of things, you've had a lot of wildlife experiences, and you have your own individual, unique take on things.
01:13:13.000You talk to some people, and you're like, oh, I've heard these kind of opinions before, but you have a very specifically Khalil viewpoint on things.
01:14:25.000Damn, that's actually, I've never really, like, it's probably crossed my mind before, but to look at it after you've kind of described me in a certain way, I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, that kind of makes sense.
01:15:18.000I mean, when Steve Jobs went on stage to demonstrate podcasts on Apple Music, I think it was at the time, it was on iTunes, the podcast he pulled up was No Agenda.
01:15:38.000Because it was like he gave this speech, a conference, and when Steve Jobs was talking about Apple Podcasts, like how to get podcasts, he pulled up Adam Curry's podcast.
01:17:27.000I have questions for you, but if you have questions too, I don't give a shit.
01:17:30.000But you could sit down with a notepad and just any subject that you would like to discuss, like Bitcoin, because you went to that Bitcoin conference, and just write out some stuff about Bitcoin and maybe have someone on that's a Bitcoin expert, and you could ask them about how did this get started?
01:17:50.000Are there other crypto coins that you're interested in?
01:17:53.000There's so many different angles you could take.
01:17:55.000And then you could take that with music.
01:17:57.000You could take that with, I mean, you could have all kinds of different people on your podcast.
01:18:01.000You have all kinds of different interests, right?
01:18:03.000You have different interests in art, interests in culture, interests in, yeah.
01:18:07.000Yeah, I mean, there's so many different things you could talk about.
01:18:12.000Well, I see it as an extension because so many people are so concerned about social media, right?
01:18:19.000We're talking about likes and engagement and everything like that.
01:18:38.000And people engage with that, and then they get to know you, the real you.
01:18:42.000Not just the you that's fighting, the you that lands brutal leg kicks and KOs somebody, but the you that talks about fucking gardening or whatever.
01:19:37.000People like when people do things and talk about them and get excited because we all feed off of each other's energy and passion and we all gather inspiration from other people.
01:19:49.000And that's one of the things that makes podcasts interesting.
01:19:53.000It's like I get to listen to the way another person thinks and it can flavor the way I think and maybe enhance the way I think.
01:20:00.000Maybe give me a different perspective that I maybe didn't have before.
01:21:14.000Yes, yeah, and you just keep adding to them, you know, and then each one you learn a little bit more, like you go over that one, like, well, I was a little clunky on that one, or that was good because I did this, I'm going to do that more often, and then just keep building on it.
01:21:29.000I wish more fighters did that, because there's a lot of interesting guys that are fighters.
01:21:56.000The life of a fighter is a life of extreme, intense action in brief moments in time and arduous training and discipline and drive for months on end for one intense moment in time.
01:24:12.000There's a lot of people that can be impacted by these fighters that are going out and putting everything on the line to become the champion.
01:24:21.000There's a lot of work that can be done now and a lot of people that can be helped now through listening to maybe what we have to say or what we've been through or some type of inspiration to help the people who are struggling.
01:24:37.000Yeah, to just be of some type of like light to a lot of people.
01:24:41.000Well, you got real emotional in your post-fight speech where you were talking about how at one point in time you were suicidal and you feel like you have a message that you could reach out to someone that might be in that same sort of position.
01:24:56.000I mean like I've sensed that I've gotten so many messages and I didn't know that it would bring this amount of Energy and attention.
01:25:07.000I didn't know what type of energy and attention it would bring.
01:25:10.000I just know that I wanted to be able to use my victory to maybe inspire someone to stick around another day and not give up and maybe find some type of...
01:25:21.000Something to hold onto to just keep you from making a decision to like take your life, right?
01:25:27.000Because I know that that's what it was for me is having someone like my family or a coach that's like, hey man, come back to the gym tomorrow.
01:25:45.000But since saying that, I think for the first month my inboxes were flooded to where it became almost like uncomfortable because everyone was reaching out to me as if I was going to help them.
01:26:12.000So like, there was, there was one guy specifically that it was like, he's like, yeah, man, like, thanks for the message and all that stuff.
01:26:19.000But like, you know, this, my birthday is on this date.
01:26:22.000And like, this is when I plan to make it happen.
01:26:25.000But, like, I respect what you're doing and I respect everything.
01:26:28.000He's like, but, like, on the day that I was born is the day that I plan to do it.
01:26:32.000And it was only in, like, three days, Joe.
01:26:35.000And I was like, dude, and I fucking, I picked up the phone and I just started sending voice messages out of nowhere, just, like, just talking, you know?
01:26:42.000And I'm like, I don't know this guy, but, like, I can't just let this pass.
01:26:46.000And then, yeah, so there's just messages and a lot of people that are reaching out.
01:26:58.000I think actually the last message I sent a voice message but I never got one back and I've just been on my own life journey to where I never reached back out but I'm now reminded and I'll probably reach back out today but like it's not just that one there's a lot and it's like and if I don't get back to a certain message it's almost like yeah you don't really care you know and I have to ignore these things too but so the attention that I've gotten now has been more like People have been reaching out
01:27:33.000And me being who I am, I'm just trying to find different ways that I can.
01:27:37.000And I've got some things in play for sure.
01:27:42.000Where were you at in your life when you were thinking about taking your own life?
01:27:48.000It was shortly before I started fighting.
01:27:51.000It could have been like a year before I started fighting.
01:27:54.000I was going on tour with my friends who were musicians at that time.
01:28:04.000I was living in a two-bedroom apartment, but it was almost like a one-bedroom apartment because there was four or five of us in there and we had to use one of them as storage.
01:29:04.000I had friends who played music, so I joined them on tour.
01:29:07.000But even then, I'm like this big black dude, overweight, touring with heavy metal bands across the world, like across the country.
01:29:16.000So I already fell out of place in a way.
01:29:19.000I connected to the music and I connected to my friends, but when we start going places and when we start going to Alabama and the heart, when we start going to places around the country, I'm like, okay, I really feel out of place here.
01:29:33.000And not only that, I almost felt worthless because these guys were playing on stage and I'm sitting here just selling the merchandise and I'm almost envious of them because they're following their passion and their dream and they're excited every night to go on stage and I'm just kind of an extra.
01:29:56.000But just kind of comparing where am I in my life?
01:29:59.000What do I have versus the things that they're receiving?
01:30:02.000So I was about like 19, 18, 19. And it just, coming home from tour, after just like being stimulated or being on tour, Just getting home, kind of back to the same old shit, back to my, you know, my apartment, back to seeing my mom struggle, back to seeing, you know, my brother struggle.
01:30:24.000Just everybody, and there's just like this struggling, hopeless type of place.
01:30:28.000And I was very unhealthy, and if, I mean, if anybody, like, you should know, if you're unhealthy, and your gut's unhealthy, and your brain's unhealthy, and you're smoking two packs of cigarettes a day, and only drinking soda, and eating fast food, if you're in that...
01:30:43.000If that stuff's in your gut and in your brain, what do you think your mind is?
01:30:48.000I just remember sitting on the stairs and just smoking, chain smoking, and drinking at the same time, and just being in this place of like, fuck it, dude.
01:31:04.000If I had to wake up, if I had fucking died a night in my sleep, like, I really don't care.
01:31:08.000Like, I'd much rather that happen because tomorrow I'm just gonna wake up to the same thing, right?
01:31:14.000So, um, I think that might have been the night where, I can't really remember because a lot is a blur, but that might have been the night where, um, I was pretty high on just weed and just a lot of alcohol and a lot of cigarettes.
01:31:32.000And I remember going to bed, or trying to go to bed, just kind of laying there, just all fucked up.
01:31:40.000And I felt like my heart was going to stop.
01:32:22.000Like, I was really trying to just, like, damage myself, and I got to a point where I tried so hard that my body kind of responded and it scared me.
01:32:32.000And then that's where I started to kind of look at, okay, maybe I don't want to die.
01:32:47.000Yeah, it didn't stop immediately, but I was more conscious.
01:32:50.000I'm like, I'm going to smoke a little bit today.
01:32:52.000I wasn't purposely trying to damage myself anymore, but I was already addicted to cigarettes and everything else, the food.
01:33:05.000I was already addicted to it, but I wasn't with the intention of trying to damage myself anymore.
01:33:09.000How did you transition from that into training and then fighting?
01:33:14.000So I remember going on one more tour after that, shortly after that, and that's when I told everybody, hey, I think I'm going to, this is it for me.
01:33:57.000They were passing around the phone in the van and like, yeah, when you fight, you're going to be like this guy and pulling up pictures of Bob Sapp, literally.
01:34:06.000Because that was the biggest comparison, because I wasn't ripped, I wasn't shredded, I was fat.
01:34:11.000So they looked for a big guy who was an MMA fighter, and at the time it was Bob Sapp.
01:34:16.000So they thought it was kind of a joke, and I remember hearing a couple of comments of like, okay, we'll see you next tour.
01:34:24.000Or like, if it doesn't work out, you always have a spot here, you always have a job here.
01:34:38.000So when we started researching MMA, my brother and I, we started researching together, and we would look up certain videos, and we got into Pride, because Pride, at the time, that was like the best fights.
01:34:49.000And I remember seeing Vanderlei's Silva, and he's doing the fucking...
01:34:54.000And it's saying, Vanderlei's Silva, the axe murderer.
01:34:58.000Muay Thai specialist and I was like what the fuck is Muay Thai and this guy's the axe murderer and I just saw his I saw his violence and that I connected to it in a way and then we started researching him and realized that he had a gym in Vegas and I'd used all the that last tour I used all the money to I collected all my tips and my savings and that was enough to get my brother and I a membership and then that's where it all unfolded.
01:35:24.000I heard Vandele's gym in Vegas was crazy.
01:36:30.000I wasn't too connected, but it might have been on the business side or even on the team side and just kind of started to break things apart, spoil the batch, and we all kind of split and went separate ways.
01:36:42.000What was the technical training like there?
01:37:53.000Next day I come in, my coach gives me a piece of paper and it says, Daniel Cormier, he says, hey, after you leave today's session, he's like, quit being a little bitch and go research this.
01:38:52.000I think it was through the training that we were doing, right?
01:38:54.000Like the shoe-to-box style Muay Thai training and the hard, hard, hard sparring and taking our body to its physical limit as much as possible.
01:39:07.000And even to this day, I'm thankful for that because that's what's kind of made me who I am today too, right?
01:39:41.000But if you go and you push 100%, every time you go to, like, your mental and physical limits, like, you'll see some results really, really, really fast.
01:40:21.000And we do have something inside of us that tries to stop us from everything.
01:40:25.000But you gotta, you gotta fucking say fuck it and get up some days and really go hard and really go hard and push yourself and you'll see results.
01:40:43.000He turned himself into a fucking machine.
01:40:45.000I'd say like after reading his book and listening to a lot of what he went through I saw so many similarities.
01:40:54.000And I think the main thing was, like, Goggins went to the military, and I found MMA. You know, like, the military's a lot different.
01:41:05.000It's like, it's a bit more serious, a bit higher level of just...
01:41:11.000Not only training, but just the people that you're surrounded by and the duty that you're attached to.
01:41:18.000But just from a lot of the traumas that we had, the very similar life traumas as a kid, teenagers, things like that.
01:41:26.000So do you remember specifically when you realized as you started training that this was for you?
01:41:33.000Do you remember like when you realized it was changing your life and that you were like so in the beginning were you still smoking and still drinking and still doing all that shit when you first started training?
01:43:04.000It's more the trainers from what I've seen.
01:43:07.000But the guys who are active champions and who have a lot of money riding on them, if they were caught smoking, they'd probably get hit with a stick or something.
01:43:18.000They might sneak it, you know, just because when you're in Thailand, when you're a part of a Thai camp, like, you know, like you're under like ownership, right?
01:43:27.000And so they might feel like it's a bit of like rebellion, like we're going to sneak out and smoke cigarettes, you know, because it's the only thing to really do.
01:44:31.000After, let's say, just to be safe, let's say the first week, which would be three days, right?
01:44:39.000Within a week, I went and trained three days because of that we only had enough gas to get to the gym for three days.
01:44:46.000So, every single time but the third day was like confirmation that I just felt so much peace and like I'd slept so good in between or like you know that night because I'm like wow I just went and let out of all this like bad energy and got so much good energy back and I'm tired muscles are sore but I want to go back but I can't move and I was like man this is like this is fucking awesome.
01:45:12.000That was really my take on it when I first started is that it was an amazing thing and I just got addicted to that feeling of feeling exhausted but being proud.
01:45:27.000I was exhausted because I was actually applying myself to something that was good for me and I was surrounded by good people.
01:45:33.000So a couple months in, you start physically feeling better, you start to feel your face slimming, and then you knew you were on this good path, but did you think that you were going to fight?
01:45:44.000It wasn't until I went to an actual MMA event, amateur MMA event, when I felt like, okay, I can do this now.
01:45:57.000Like, I've been training a bit, I've been sparring.
01:45:59.000And we went to an event to support a teammate, and I saw the heavyweights going at it, and I told my coach, like, hey, man, I'm ready.
01:47:55.000So that I could kind of feel like I fit in and I'd, you know, cook at home.
01:48:00.000My brother and I'd cook eggs and chicken and broccoli and bring it to the gym so we can eat with the guys and kind of eat the same stuff because we'd never been in an MMA gym before.
01:48:11.000Like high school football and basketball where afterward they'd go to 7-Eleven and get like hot Cheetos and put cheese in it and like drink soda.
01:48:18.000You know, like that's where we come from.
01:48:33.000Did you feel the change in your body from that?
01:48:36.000Yeah, that's where the bloating in my stomach started to go down and energy levels started to increase.
01:48:47.000I, that's where I picked up my addiction to coffee.
01:48:51.000I would actually brew, I'd brew black coffee, and I'd put the whole thing in the fridge the next day, and then the next day in the morning I'd pick it up and just chug it straight out of the coffee container thing, and I'd be like, ah, like hyped, and then I'd go running, and then come back, and then, yeah, and then that became kind of like my new addiction.
01:49:12.000I couldn't smoke cigarettes, so I'm like, ah, I gotta find some coffee.
01:49:17.000You know, and I'm like, jump rope, put on music, that whole thing.
01:49:21.000So yeah, it did a huge turnaround for me, man.
01:49:26.000And so how long did you stay at Vanderlei's gym?
01:49:30.000I'd say like two years, two or three years.
01:49:32.000Yeah, all the way up until I transferred over to Black House MMA. And so when you were at Vanderlei's gym and you're training, you said about a year in you had your first fight?
01:49:48.000Yeah, so like Tough Enough put on great shows there.
01:49:52.000Amateur shows that were selling out the Sam Boyd Stadium, you know, like where we got to fight in front of thousands of people as amateurs.
01:49:59.000No shin guards, you know, no California like camo rules.
01:50:02.000It was like The only thing we couldn't do was like knee to the head and throw elbows, but everything else was full on.
01:50:10.000The only thing is the rounds were two minutes instead of five.
01:51:57.000Yeah, they cut a chunk of cartilage out, like a little thing, and shoved it in there and stitched it in place and completely changed his nose.
01:52:23.000I mean, it was for fighting, but it was, you know, they removed some of the scar tissue around his eyes and tightened it up because he would, you know, you would breathe on him and he would cut.
01:54:17.000And I'd eat, like, half a can of tuna and, like, you know, just, like, really dumb shit, no seasoning, not really nourishing my body at all.
01:54:50.000And how much relief was it to fight at 205?
01:54:53.000Well, it was cool, because on The Ultimate Fighter, I was like, well, I usually fight at 85, so I'm going to eat steaks every day and lobster.
01:55:00.000We were just eating, and then I got knocked out of the competition a bit early, so then I was just grubbing.
01:55:06.000And I was like, wow, this is a really nice life.
01:55:10.000And then when it came time to fight, I only had to cut a little bit of weight, like five pounds or something like that.
01:55:53.000I keep a pretty consistent diet just in life and in training camp.
01:55:58.000There was a time while I was in Thailand and a little bit after that I tried to do a vegan thing and that was just causing for me some gut inflammation because I was eating the Beyond Meat and all that stuff and I was just like, ugh.
01:56:21.000But it was just, no matter what, I just wasn't, I felt inflammation in my gut.
01:56:26.000But I didn't know what it was coming from until, like, my coach started telling me, like, a lot of the, like, beans and plants and stuff that I was eating contain lectins, which are, like, almost like toxins that plants and beans and stuff can release as, like, a defense mechanism.
01:56:44.000So if I'm eating them, it's not too good.
01:56:46.000But I went from that to pretty much, like, a carnivore-type keto, you know, diet where – Like my last training camp, my daily meal would be, I'd probably eat within a day like four burger patties.
01:57:12.000Yeah, four burger patties, eggs, steak, elk, like just primarily like meat and fats.
01:58:12.000And he essentially says, like, if you look at the most cherished foods by hunters and gatherers, number one is meat, number two is fruit and honey and raw dairy.
01:58:23.000And he believes that to thrive, to have your body operate optimally, that those are the foods that your body's most comfortable with.
01:58:32.000I think it varies, you know, because Jake Shields doesn't have any problem when he eats vegetarian.
01:58:37.000He just has eggs for protein and occasionally some other things, but most of what he eats is vegetable-based, and he seems fine, I think.
02:00:34.000I know a lot of people think that people are using that as an excuse to do steroids.
02:00:38.000Like, oh, my supplements were tainted.
02:00:41.000No, a lot of fucking supplements have bullshit in them.
02:00:43.000I know that for a fact because at Onnit, when we started putting together AlphaBrain, what we would do is we would have a third party that would mix all of our nutrients for us.
02:00:54.000We would test it independently and we'd find stuff in there that's not supposed to be in there.
02:01:10.000A lot of the stuff, like if people were buying creatine from China, well, you're getting the same lab that's putting that together might also be making steroids.
02:01:18.000So you can get tainted creatine or tainted supplements.
02:01:21.000Yeah, I mean, it makes total sense to me, and I think I definitely make sure that any steps that I take, they have that stamp of approval on it.
02:01:30.000I take some from the PI, but I take another one.
02:05:14.000Because you're thinking about the future, you're thinking about life, but then you're also recognizing that when it comes down to training camp, you're all in.
02:07:04.000Yeah, I just can't imagine that it's smart.
02:07:07.000I mean, you obviously have an amazing striking base, but I just can't imagine that just doing jujitsu and then just getting it back polished up.
02:07:15.000Sure, you're at such a high level that when you polish it up, it's going to be ready to go.
02:07:20.000But would it be at the same level that it would if you were consistently training?
02:16:04.000And so, like, I picked up enough to where, like, I could live day to day and take my taxis and, like I said, order my You were telling me once that the way they throw kicks is different in that they're more relaxed as they're throwing the kicks.
02:18:57.000Yeah, yeah, because the first day that I ever trained, I couldn't sleep.
02:19:02.000I remember I got there pretty late at night, so I couldn't sleep and I went to go train the next day and everyone was like really intrigued by my size because they'd never really seen anybody my size.
02:19:14.000And then some of the trainers put me into clinch with these guys who are no more than 145 pounds.
02:19:22.000And they threw me around like a rag doll.
02:19:26.000Guys pretty much half my size could throw me, could trip me, could sweep me, could lock me to where I couldn't pick them up or break the lock.
02:19:36.000And I was like, this is exactly why I came here.
02:20:33.000Like, he's just this crazy guy where, you know, it's the fifth round, he's covered in blood, but he's just like, he doesn't go down, you know?
02:20:40.000So all of the fighters, Savas Michael, he's a pet indie fighter, and he's from Cyprus.
02:24:39.000So, in a Muay Thai stadium, the locker room is about the size of this, and all of the fighters that are even fighting against each other are all in the same room, and they're all getting massages with Thai oil and stuff.
02:24:53.000But then, right before you walk out, you sit on a bench, and you're just, like, sitting next to the guy that you're about to fight.
02:24:59.000And most of the time, the guys are just talking, like, shooting the shit about life, about, like, something that has nothing to do with fighting.
02:25:07.000They're just like, oh, yeah, did you see that?
02:25:51.000And it's also very unusual that it's so damn effective.
02:25:54.000And if you think about the history of martial arts and you think about the history of kicking martial arts, there's so many different countries that developed their own specific kicking styles.
02:26:03.000But they were the ones who figured out how to kick the legs correctly.
02:26:06.000They were the ones who figured out how to fight in the clinch correctly.
02:26:09.000They're the ones who figured out elbows better than anybody.
02:26:11.000They figured out knees better than anybody.
02:26:37.000Because there's people that make a living off of the gambling, and they're passionate about the gambling.
02:26:45.000Like anything in life, there can be some bad parts to it.
02:26:53.000From someone who's coming from an outside perspective and seeing the type of life that it's providing for these people, I think that the gambling's a good thing.
02:27:01.000And it also adds the excitement to the matches.
02:28:26.000And then, yeah, so the whole crowd is like...
02:28:30.000There's guys who are there who are placing the bets, and everyone's placing bets with each other, and that's how they kind of collect their money.
02:29:33.000No, but sometimes you hear the impact of a shot and you realize how effective it is.
02:29:40.000If you're dealing with significant blows, you can kind of tell, but sometimes you can tell plus the impact sound adds to your understanding of what kind of force was involved in that strike.
02:29:53.000Do you think that they were wearing the headphones for the noise reasons or for the focus?
02:29:58.000I think they were alluding to the fact, if I remember correctly in the broadcast, they were alluding to the fact they were doing it because of focus.
02:30:05.000And they were saying, I think that's good so that people aren't swayed by the way the crowd is cheering.
02:30:19.000Sometimes I guess it is a little bit better to like watch a fight without the commentators or yeah You know and you just you're seeing it for what it is I would like fight Fight judges to have the same setup that I have when I'm doing commentary though When you know DC and John Anik and I are doing commentary we have all these monitors Yeah, so there's sometimes when shit's going down.
02:30:40.000I can't see it right right in front of me I prefer to look right through the cage and But sometimes I have to look at the screen, and I don't think they have that option, unfortunately.
02:30:48.000No, they're just staring right into the cage, no matter what angle you have, right?
02:31:02.000Yeah, if they had a specific person in the truck that was just for the judges, so they could say, hey, show me that again.
02:31:11.000So you could see whether a punch impacted or whether it caught an elbow.
02:31:15.000Yeah, I still don't understand how they're scoring these things.
02:31:19.000I know they say that it's like, you know, strikes landed, cage control, stuff like that, but I don't really see that being the way that they're scoring these fights.
02:32:20.000And then he caught him in a triangle afterwards that.
02:32:22.000So it's like you've got to give credit to Volkanovski for having the heart to gut through it, for having the technique to get out of that position, and then for smashing him afterwards.
02:32:31.000But is the smashing him afterwards more valuable than those two almost submissions?
02:35:23.000Particularly people that already had COVID, you know, when they were telling him they had his mandatory vaccination, he's like, that doesn't even make sense.
02:35:31.000He's like, there's all these scientific studies that show that natural infection is superior.
02:35:37.000Recovering from natural infection imparts superior antibodies.
02:35:41.000He didn't have a fake version of COVID. I don't want to say fake, but non-symptomatic, asymptomatic.
02:35:52.000He had fucking COVID. And he got over it, and they're like, you gotta get vaccinated.
02:36:16.000And so I think, like, you know, of course it made sense to, like, if you got the virus, then, you know, chances are, like, you don't need the vaccine.
02:37:14.000So we heard about it in 2019 and had already started prepping in January, my girl and I. So we started ordering boxes of masks and alcohol and all this stuff just to prepare.
02:37:51.000So you have about two weeks to go to the grocery store and, like, get what you need to get, but your area, your, like, neighborhoods are going to be shut down.
02:38:45.000There was a curfew of, like, 4 o'clock.
02:38:47.000So in between, like, you know, in the morning time and up until 4 o'clock, we could at least drive to the grocery store.
02:38:54.000But even then there was like a police barrier where they would like sign a piece like they sign you off like you got 30 minutes to go to the grocery into the grocery store and back.
02:39:03.000So what that did is because everybody was locked down and stationary they were able to see where the sick people were coming from in what areas.
02:39:16.000So, like, they're like, ah, this place in the past month, there hasn't been one case reported.
02:40:59.000The gyms weren't open, but we would train just at home.
02:41:06.000George, my coach at the time, I would hit pads with him.
02:41:10.000He had access to like his father-in-law's like Muay Thai Stadium and we'd just go there and hit pads and Have a group of like maybe three four guys to come and train so No, the gyms weren't open, but we had our own like personal Team and so eventually shit got too crazy as you were saying before and you had to get out of there.
02:41:30.000Yeah, because as a foreigner They told us like if you're a foreigner you can stay here or you can leave and Like, but we're shutting down the airport.
02:41:42.000We don't know when we're going to open it back up.
02:41:44.000We want to get this thing under control.
02:41:46.000So that caused a lot of the people to go back to their home country instead of to stay.
02:41:52.000So I was the guy who was like, I'm staying.
02:41:55.000So I went to the embassy and I got my stamps.
02:41:58.000for extension but because of just the embassy being tied up and the pandemic going crazy and other places it was just hard to to get through any phone lines you know so I needed to get an extension or I needed a certain piece of paper for my visa you know just for like that those type of documents and it was just almost impossible to get and so I started to get pretty nervous and
02:42:28.000I didn't want to get fined or banned from Thailand, banned entry, you know, the next time I want to come.
02:42:37.000So that's kind of what I was like, fuck, I just have to go home for a bit then.
02:42:41.000Did you ever think about going back now that everything's basically opened up again?
02:42:47.000My girl and I have actually been having dreams like I've had like reoccurring dreams the past month of like being there and I have a Thai family you know and like she has a Thai family too and we just we really miss it and we miss the essence of you know of Thailand and the training so we have a plan to go back soon.
02:43:09.000Fortunately, I've had enough to do, and I've been busy since the fight, and I'm grateful for that.
02:43:15.000But I do have to go back to training soon, so I don't know if I'll be able to do it in this break.
02:43:20.000But it is my goal to be able to go there this year, for sure.
02:43:24.000And if you go there, are you going to stay and do a camp there?