In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast, I sit down with the Head Organizer of ADCC 2019, Moe Jassim, to talk about the history of the organization, how it came about, and what it means to be a No Gi Jiu-Jitsu competitor. We talk about how it all started, who the owner and creator of the club is, and some of the crazy things that have happened in the past and present in jiu-jitsu and jiu jitsu in general. I hope you enjoy this episode, and don't forget to check out Joe Rogans Experience Podcast! Joe is one of the most well-known and respected Jiu Jitsu coaches in the world, and has been a part of the No Gi community for a long time. He's been a member of the ADCC team for the past 5 years, and is the head organizer for ADCC this year. I really enjoyed this conversation with Moe, and I hope that you enjoy listening to this episode. If you like what you hear, please HIT SUBSCRIBE and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts! or wherever else you get your podcasts. I'll be looking out for the next episode, so don't miss it! Peace, Blessings, Cheers! Cheers, Joe and Rory! -Eugene and Rory, AKA. -Rory and Rory "The Joes Experience" -Jon and Rory Rogan Podcast by Night Train by Day, by Night, All Day All Day, By Night All Day by Night by Day by Day - by Night - All Day By Night, By Day, All day by Day Jon and Rory's Podcasts by Night's Podcast by Day. Jon Rogan's podcast by Night all Day, all Day by Morning, by Day and Night by Night... by Day... by Night and Night, by Evening, by Morning by Day.... by Night! -Jon Rogan Talks Jiu JJJ podcast by Day & Night, all day, by Nights Only by Day/Night, by Afterday, by By Day... all day all day by Night.... by Night. , all day! , by Night By Day! Jon talks about jiujitsu, by Any other day... by day, and then by Night? , and then, by night, by the Night, then by night... by the night!
00:05:28.000I think he's 40. I think he'll be 40 for this ADCC. Is that his last one?
00:05:32.000Well, last year was supposed to be his last one, but then he came back for this one, so I'm going to plan to make sure that it's his last one.
00:05:40.000When you do these matches, since you've been doing these no-time limit matches, like the Felipe match, which I think you really shine in those matches, but that's really for the cognoscenti.
00:05:51.000That's really for the hardcore people that want to see.
00:05:55.000It's just to determine who's better at jiu-jitsu.
00:05:58.000But no-time limit matches for spectators are just atrocious because...
00:06:02.000Who the fuck wants to watch four hours at jiu-jitsu?
00:06:04.000Most people don't want to watch ten minutes at jiu-jitsu.
00:06:06.000So who wants to watch a two-hour match?
00:06:08.000But they're important to have sometimes just to show who's the best because you actually have to do jiu-jitsu and know how to do submissions.
00:06:15.000Well, not in the Felipe match because there wasn't a submission.
00:06:17.000But you have to be better at jiu-jitsu than the other guy.
00:06:21.000There's no stalling and playing tactics for ten minutes and winning by advantage or two points.
00:06:26.000So they have their place, but to build a sport to a spectator sport is not...
00:09:40.000For people in America, that's where they recognize, like, oh, my God, I don't know shit.
00:09:45.000That's what got me into jiu-jitsu when I was, like...
00:09:48.000Seven eight years old I was watching the UFC and it just happened to be a Hoist Gracie tribute and there was like all the reruns of the early UFC's and I was like yeah I'm gonna fucking do that when I get older and then like for the longest time I like wouldn't train I'll just like hear like I'll hear Joe like breaking down how to do a kimura he's like oh yeah he needs to get his left hand here and I like go my buddy the next day I'm like fuck yeah like shit works I'm like fucking doing kimuras and my fucking friends and shit It's really amazing how one
00:10:18.000martial art was—if you look at all the other martial arts, everybody wanted to be like Bruce Lee, the small guy who could beat everybody else.
00:10:26.000But in reality, the bigger people win.
00:10:30.000Like, in any kind of fight involving striking and size and speed, it's just such a giant advantage.
00:10:37.000Jiu-jitsu is really the only thing where the smaller person actually can dominate a bigger person.
00:10:44.000I was actually thinking about this recently.
00:10:46.000I don't know any other combat sport where you could have two elite level athletes and a 60-70 pound weight advantage and the smaller guy wins consistently.
00:12:23.000So he took out three of the biggest guys in 2019. I think that was the first time since 2007 a guy in the 77-kilogram division, 170, medaled.
00:12:35.000Remember when Gunnar Nelson, when he beat, what's his face?
00:13:15.000Imagine being like the security guard having to fucking tell Jeff Monson he's got his cock out, and you're like, man, you can't be doing this here.
00:13:23.000I mean, he literally looked like the Hulk back then.
00:13:41.000And then Marcelo started pulling it off, and people were like, oh, that's a real move.
00:13:45.000That was the interesting thing about Marcelo for me is he would always reinvent himself every ADCC. So 2005, he's hitting everyone with his X-guard sweeps, so that's what everyone's expecting.
00:13:57.0002007 comes, he's just finishing everyone with north-south chokes.
00:14:00.000I saw his debut in 2003. I was there live in Sao Paulo.
00:14:04.000That was wild, because I was there with Eddie when Eddie was competing, when Eddie beat Hoyler.
00:14:08.000And when he choked out Shaolin, everybody was like, holy fuck!
00:14:13.000And it was the way he did it, the speed in which he arm dragged and took his back and in the scramble, secures the choke and then finishes it, like, as they're scrambling, and just puts him to sleep.
00:14:24.000You know what the crazy thing, too, is 2003, Marcelo got second in the trials.
00:15:04.000Andre has more medals, but I think that the way Marcelo won was far more impressive.
00:15:08.000And he's got a lot more division wins.
00:15:11.000He's got way more fights than Andre overall in ADCC. He did the division every year because he never won the absolute...
00:15:19.000Whereas Andre just did the Vision and then the Absolute.
00:15:23.000He lost his first two and then he double golded and then he's just been doing super fights since 2013. So he hasn't had that many fights compared to Marcelo.
00:15:30.000Marcelo was built so weird too because he had these giant ass tree trunk legs and it's like normal size upper body.
00:15:39.000One of the head judges trained with him for a week and he came to Abu Dhabi and he was telling me he's like the weirdest body type he's ever felt.
00:15:45.000He's like these tree trunk legs that could elevate him and these really small hands.
00:15:50.000So he's like, once he takes your back, there's no way you could defend him.
00:15:54.000Training with Mikey is like the same way because his legs are shorter proportionally than his upper body.
00:16:01.000So you're trying to pass his guard and his little tiny feet slip into places they normally wouldn't be able to because his legs are so short.
00:16:07.000So I'm fucking trying to pass his guard and his feet are coming inside my arms.
00:16:11.000I'm like, man, I don't know what to do here.
00:16:13.000He sat down outside and I had to get a photo of it because it's so preposterous.
00:17:59.000So, like, the first major event I did for ADCC was 2019. For me personally, my target, I thought the best ADCC ever was 2005, the one in Long Beach.
00:20:10.000And I'm like, dude, fucking whitelist me, you fuck.
00:20:13.000I'm so shadowbanned that he couldn't find my real account.
00:20:18.000It's so funny because I think he wants martial arts to be very respectful and he trains in martial arts and he does MMA. He really loves it.
00:20:57.000But it's like, think about how many more eyeballs are on you to see these accomplishments.
00:21:03.000Because if you were just quietly running around submitting all the best black belts in the world, it would still be impressive, but there's no way it would get the kind of attention that it's getting.
00:21:12.000And part of the reason why it gets so much attention is because you're smart about social media.
00:21:16.000And talking a lot of shit on social media is very effective for getting people hyped up.
00:23:14.000People ask me, what makes Gordon so good?
00:23:16.000I'm like, he's not the most explosive guy.
00:23:19.000There's guys bigger, faster, and stronger.
00:23:21.000For me, he does train seven days a week, and he's just got a gift where he can see a position or any technique in jiu-jitsu and break it down instantly.
00:23:31.000I've never seen someone who could just break it down to its most basic parts and rearrange it.
00:23:37.000Have you always had that kind of discipline?
00:23:41.000A big thing that improved my work ethic a lot, I mean, I was always a hard worker, but when I saw Gary was training seven days a week, and then I saw John, who, like, could barely walk, like, just teaching, like, a class at Henzo's, then he teaches, like, eight privates throughout the day, and then teaches again.
00:23:58.000Like, he would just teach, like, 8 a.m.
00:23:59.000at Henzo's in the city, and then he would teach 9, 10, 11, 12 privates, and then he would teach afternoon class, and then he would teach, like, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 p.m.
00:24:32.000It's with music, it's with comedy, it's with writers, like the people that can like sit down and do the work day in, day out, they lap everybody else.
00:24:41.000If we can just show up, you're already ahead of like 90% of the people.
00:24:49.000If you just are doing jiu-jitsu for 10 years, and even if you don't have a training program, you're just showing up every day and just training hard, even like an idiot, you're still going to be ahead of most people because most people just don't even take training seriously.
00:25:02.000Me and Mo talk about this all the time.
00:25:19.000And they go out, but they're all so lazy that they're all of the same level.
00:25:23.000Like, they have ten guys who train three times a week, so they all progress at relatively the same speed so they can get away with it.
00:25:29.000But now once there's more professionalism and there's more money, as more money comes into the sport, you'll see that change and you'll see real professionals start to grow.
00:25:37.000Well, I think with you, it's not just the training every day, but it's also the analyzing of positions and doing the intellectual work.
00:26:05.000You tell them to fucking sit down and figure out why this arm bar is not working, why the mechanics aren't right, and that no one wants to fucking do that.
00:26:11.000So that's the most important stuff is the mental work.
00:26:14.000So does John just analyze, I know he analyzes tape like all day long, he analyzes video footage, but does he analyze it with you guys?
00:26:23.000Does he break it down to you afterwards?
00:26:25.000We do tape studies like once every two weeks at my house where we watch like specific...
00:26:32.000He has like specific things that he wants to work on for that week or whatever the case is or goals he wants to accomplish during that tape study.
00:26:39.000So we'll watch tape at my house and then he'll say, okay, this is the theme for tonight.
00:27:09.000We actually watched Diego Sanchez fighting Nick Diaz in the UFC because there was a lot of up and down scrimmaging where Diego would hit a takedown, Nick would go for a submission, and then Diego would always end up on top.
00:27:20.000And John just builds this habit of, we call it hustle till you score, where you just don't stop moving until you get to a score.
00:27:28.000And it just completely changed the way that we all think about the ADCC scoring criteria and how to play the game.
00:27:36.000How does John maintain his motivation?
00:28:21.000But, like, it's not like the guy gets a lot of, like...
00:28:25.000Personal satisfaction there's not like a lot of people like heaping praise on him It's not that's not his motivation which is so interesting to be that dedicated like you get a lot of praise like you You're the guy who you're when Felipe quit and then you fucking walk around with a big smile on your face or when you Write down on a piece of paper they're going to submit Wagner-Rocha with a triangle and then you go and do it.
00:28:49.000You're getting that feeling out of your own personal satisfaction, your own personal accomplishment and achievement.
00:29:06.000He just wants you to show up to training.
00:29:08.000I think he gets a lot of satisfaction from building athletes and seeing them succeed with the stuff that he teaches.
00:29:14.000I think that's where his happiness comes from.
00:29:17.000When I win ADCC or I do something big, you can tell he's very, very happy.
00:29:23.000That's one thing that genuinely makes him happy.
00:29:26.000I remember with John, I used to train with him for about a year when they were in Puerto Rico.
00:29:32.000And, you know, most instructors, they'll just come, like the standard is 30-minute warm-up, three techniques, and then you roll for 30 minutes.
00:29:39.000So me and John would actually hang out after class all the time.
00:29:42.000He'd just come over, we'd get some food.
00:29:44.000He'd always be watching tape, and then he'd always be making notes.
00:32:21.000So, if you already have a Flow membership, you'll be able to watch it.
00:32:23.000You know, they gave me a lot of support, to be honest.
00:32:26.000A lot of people like to bash Flow, but, you know, I've been following the sport for 22 years, so I remember what it was like before they were around, you know?
00:32:59.000So there was like, for people who don't know, Leandro Lowe, who's this beloved world champion jiu-jitsu guy, got murdered the day before Felipe Pena.
00:34:32.000So anyway, so Leandro was good friends of Felipe, so obviously it's very emotionally devastating for Felipe, but that's where it gets weird.
00:37:00.000And I'm like, okay, so you fucking, you wanted to fight, you just fucking wanted more money.
00:37:05.000So they had to pay him more money to get him to fight.
00:37:09.000And then he goes out, and you can always tell when Felipe's starting to lose it, his body language falls apart, he starts complaining to the ref.
00:37:17.000So the second he didn't want to sit back, we went out of bounds, and he didn't want to go back to bottom guard, which is the position that we finished in.
00:37:24.000And then I started picking up the pace a little bit, and then we ended up standing back up, and then he just walks over to the judging table.
00:37:34.000And Howell was there, and he's like, are you done?
00:38:19.000I just realized when Mo got here, I'm like, we have a second bet.
00:38:23.000He's like, would you give me the same odds for ADCC? I'm like, yes, absolutely.
00:38:28.000I'm like, 10 to 1. So we signed the second contract.
00:38:32.000So now Mo messaged him the other day, and he's like, hey, Felipe, you need to send me another $10,000 for if you guys meet at ADCC. And now he just fucking wakes up to this message like, oh man, I have to send this fucking guy another 10 grand.
00:38:44.000So now we have a second match where if we meet at ADCC, it's the same 10 to 1 odds.
00:38:50.000So this is only if, because the brackets are random?
00:39:56.000They're like, man, his hairline's receding.
00:39:57.000I'm like, that's the best you guys got.
00:39:59.000I'm like, this is what we're going to do now?
00:40:00.000You're just going to make fun of my hairline?
00:40:01.000Dude, I'd kill 50 kittens to have your hair.
00:40:07.000If that's all they can make fun of, that's hilarious.
00:40:10.000There's a moment where, like, someone achieves this undeniable success where even the haters have to just take a dig deep deep breath.
00:40:18.000It's almost like arguing with liberals about Trump.
00:40:21.000Like, they just refuse to acknowledge facts.
00:40:23.000Like there was hundreds of people after the last match like Philippe a three-and-oh he won that match Like I just like what he won the match Who said that there's a ton of ice I mean there is not the comments Yeah, my issue with that whole thing that hopefully Gordon match was I was actually the one that informed Gordon because he likes to sleep late when he competes so So it was like 3.30 p.m.
00:40:49.000Nat tells me what happened if the match might get cancelled.
00:40:53.000So I was like, shit, I gotta wake him up.
00:40:55.000So I wake him up and I sit down and I tell him the situation.
00:40:58.000And the reality is Gordon was 100% ready to postpone the match.
00:41:03.000So the narrative is that he was the one that was pushing it to happen.
00:41:32.000Like, basically said that I was, like, offered to move the fight up to the beginning of the card, and that I was, like, I said, no, I refuse, and that I would only fight and agree upon terms.
00:41:45.000I was not willing to change anything in the contract, and that I wasn't willing to reschedule.
00:41:50.000They didn't mention about paying him more money.
00:41:56.000They just left some things out where it just made me look like the bad guy.
00:42:00.000And I'm just like, this is just not what happened at all.
00:42:23.000So, like, I'm okay where if people call me out for being an asshole and I'm actually an asshole, I'm like, okay, fine.
00:42:29.000But, like, if you're just gonna attack my character and just say something just didn't happen and blatantly lie about it, then I have a problem with it.
00:42:35.000I'm like, just like, no, guys, this is not what happened at all.
00:42:37.000It really sucks because he's a very good commentator.
00:43:09.000In terms of a broadcaster, who's a really good professional broadcaster, who's also very knowledgeable in Jiu Jitsu, understands positions, understands the rule set.
00:43:19.000For example, Hywel signed up because we do ADCC rules seminars because the rules are very complex.
00:43:25.000Hywel took the course, and to be honest, very knowledgeable.
00:43:28.000So, you know, he took it very serious.
00:43:31.000You know, me and Hywel bumped heads a few times, but I like him.
00:43:34.000We were supposed to do a, you know, for ADCC 2022, we were supposed to do like a pre-match show together.
00:44:30.000Because everyone's fighting, for the most part, over such a small, minuscule amount of money.
00:44:35.000And there's so many people in the sport, and there's so little money, that everyone's just willing to fucking backstab one another for fucking ten dollars.
00:44:42.000But wouldn't you think, though, that at this point, when they've seen how much money you make, Because you make so much more money than anybody else when it comes to selling instructionals.
00:44:52.000It's like a Connor to the rest of the guys.
00:46:01.000Actually, we're just releasing it now for ADC. I just wrote a book on this about building brands and how to be successful as a young person or a young athlete.
00:47:53.000So they left Liverpool, they go to Hamburg, they're playing, and they do this for like a couple years and they come back and they are a completely different band.
00:48:26.000It's just like being willing to put in way more work than everybody else, way more thought into it, way more focus, and that's where results are achieved.
00:49:40.000Like, there's time to do all these things.
00:49:41.000But, like, most of those people, I mean, some people can change, but, like, most of those people, like, the second they start making those excuses, I'm just like, okay, like, he's done.
00:49:54.000But, like, every now and then you get, like, a guy who...
00:49:58.000Like, you give them advice and you're like, okay, I'll do that.
00:50:00.000And they just immediately, like, it's just so easy.
00:50:03.000Just look at the guys who are successful and just use that as a guideline.
00:50:08.000The thing about it is, with stand-up, there is an argument that impulsive, lazy people also can be great stand-ups.
00:50:20.000Because they just do it enough, where they're going on stage enough, and they have these ideas, and then they know how to push the idea to the public.
00:50:28.000They know how to, like, set the joke up right, and they do it in front of so many different crowds that they polish it up to the point where it's this fucking hilarious bit.
00:50:36.000Like, I've seen guys that are lazy as fuck, and they're great comics.
00:50:40.000And you just gotta go, okay, you could be better.
00:50:42.000You could be even better than you are, believe it or not, and you tell them that.
00:51:23.000Another thing that no one talks about to my success is that...
00:51:29.000I have the financial freedom to just focus only on training.
00:51:34.000Like most guys will win ADCC and then support themselves for that year.
00:51:37.000They'll do like a seminar tour where for three months or four months out of the year, they're teaching seminars and they're making active income where you got to travel here, you got to travel there.
00:51:46.000And the only reason why people wanted you in the first place for the seminar is because you're talented and you're winning competitions.
00:51:52.000So then you just take time away from training, you start losing more and then the demand for seminars goes down and it kind of spirals out of control.
00:52:00.000I set myself up with a passive income and the instructionals and everything else.
00:52:03.000So I don't have to do the seminars if I don't want to.
00:52:08.000So my training, I have the ability to train way more than these guys because I set myself up in a much better financial position through the passive income.
00:54:37.000I mean, a lot of the top-level guys behind closed doors, they'll never admit it, but they tell me, like, yeah, I just watch all your instructionals.
00:54:46.000In my generation and the older generation, you don't see it as much because guys have already fell into their games and they don't want to change.
00:54:55.000Which is why they're getting left behind and the new generation's beating them.
00:54:58.000But in the younger generation, like at ADCC Trials, you see a lot of our stuff.
00:55:02.000You see like the back attack system, you see body locks, you see leg locks, you see all the stuff that we're doing in the instructionals.
00:55:09.000Yeah, it's so interesting to see that systematic, very technical approach spreading.
00:55:20.000You do see these very clear pathways that you guys choose, and then you see other people adopt those pathways too.
00:55:29.000And you see them follow the same things that John is teaching you guys.
00:55:58.000You know, it's a fighting culture, but they're lacking the wrestling and the leg lock.
00:56:02.000And if they don't adapt quickly, that gap between the North American athletes and everyone else is just going to get bigger and bigger and bigger.
00:56:10.000It's pretty crazy that Brazil, they rejected leg locks for so long that some of the really, really high-level black belts, like if you tap them with a leg lock, the crowd would throw shoes at you and boo at you.
00:56:22.000It used to be viewed as a dirty technique, to be honest.
00:56:26.000Well, the thing is, it all comes down to technology.
00:56:29.000The people who have most technology are going to ultimately win over X amount of years.
00:56:36.000So a big problem for Brazil is the best technology that they have access to or that we have access to is the instructional videos.
00:56:44.000Like, if you can be anywhere in the world and buy a John Danaher video or a Gordon Ryan video and you can watch that, that, in my opinion, is the best technology that you have.
00:56:55.000The problem with Brazil is my instructionals are $250.
00:57:00.000That's 1,000 reais, and I have 20 of them.
00:57:02.000So you're really going to get someone in Brazil that's going to spend 20,000 reais, $20,000 for us on my instructionals.
00:57:09.000A lot of people in Brazil don't have...
00:57:12.000The financials to be able to purchase the technology.
00:57:16.000So that's going to make it harder for them to stay at the level that America, Europe, that we're operating at because they just don't have access.
00:57:26.000A lot of them don't have access to the technology.
00:57:27.000Many of them do, but many of them don't.
00:57:30.000So, it's going to be interesting in the next ten years.
00:57:33.000It's like if you took two islands and you put nerds on one and you put jocks on the other and you have them fight in the first four months, the nerds are going to get beat up.
00:57:42.000But then two years from now, now they have fucking spears.
00:57:46.000And then they have guns five years later, and then the meatheads are still just trying to throw rocks at the birds.
00:57:51.000So ultimately, technology is going to prevail.
00:57:55.000So I think the big problem that Brazil is running into and will run into is they don't have as much readily accessible technology as America, for example.
00:58:06.000So I think in the next decade or so, it's going to be a competition between America and Europe, Russia.
00:58:11.000When it starts getting money pushed into the sport and it gets bigger, you get a guy who's been wrestling all his life who fucking grew up in the fucking middle of nowhere, Russia, who starts taking up jiu-jitsu at an early age and he's wrestling.
01:01:20.000Over the next five years, there'll definitely be more Brazilian, maybe even 10 years, more Brazilian champions than any other country per ADCC. But the next decade, I think, you'll start to see a shift where it's more Americans, more Europeans.
01:01:35.000And are there good guys coming out of Russia, like you were talking about?
01:01:45.000And a lot of the Samo guys kind of clash and think jiu-jitsu is soft or whatever the case is.
01:01:50.000But I think as the sport grows in popularity, and especially when there's more money pushed into it, I think you're going to have people who are dedicated from a young age who are very good at wrestling.
01:02:01.000Near Olympic level in wrestling, but not good enough to make the Olympics, so they do jiu-jitsu instead.
01:02:07.000And they have like Olympic level wrestling with high level intricate jiu-jitsu.
01:02:15.000Because the main hole, one of the big – the two major holes of the last decade in jiu-jitsu has been leg locks, which is now starting – the gap is starting to be filled there, and the integration of standing and ground techniques.
01:02:29.000The standing position in jiu-jitsu is terrible.
01:02:32.000The wrestling for jiu-jitsu rule sets is mostly terrible.
01:02:36.000But when you have Olympic caliber wrestlers who have been training jiu-jitsu since they're five years old, you're going to have a real issue.
01:03:26.000For this one, you know, one of the biggest influences for me was Pride FC. So we're going very heavy on the production, and I bring up this analogy all the time.
01:03:35.000How many UFC fans actually train a combat sport?
01:04:27.000You know, you're going to watch Gary Tone and you know it's going to be a fucking sick match because he's going to be just scrambling all over the mat the whole time looking for submissions.
01:04:35.000My matches actually don't have that much movement.
01:04:38.000But when I get a hold of people, it's just like when I get them into certain positions and they just can't escape, they can't move, they can't do anything, that's what's interesting.
01:04:48.000So most people enjoy movement, but when they watch my matches, it's interesting because of the fact that I just make guys look like they don't know what they're doing.
01:05:53.000Yeah, he was yelling out some wild shit.
01:05:56.000I think the problem with jiu-jitsu, too, is for the last 20 years, you know, it's been ingrained to the athletes, it doesn't matter how you win.
01:06:43.000And the one thing I've noticed, the common denominator for all of them is extremely supportive parents.
01:06:49.000So Cole's dad's there, Mika's dad, and the Rotolo's mom and father really support them.
01:06:54.000And they've been competing since they've basically been born.
01:06:58.000Those kids are very impressive, the Rotolo brothers.
01:07:01.000I agree with that on a technical level.
01:07:04.000In order to differentiate yourself and be a champion, you need to be good at everything, good everywhere, and have one to two things you can do better than everybody else.
01:07:13.000So the Rotolos are good at everything.
01:07:16.000They have a unique ability to manage pacing better than anybody, better than almost anybody.
01:08:06.000So they have incredible ability to put massive amounts of passing pressure on you.
01:08:11.000If you try to stand up or overextend yourself from bottom position and get up, your hand comes out and then you get darts, you get strangled with the darts, which they're exceptionally good at.
01:08:21.000And then when they see you starting to break from the passing pressure, then they pick the pace up.
01:08:26.000So they have three things which they do better than almost anybody else, and that's why they're so successful.
01:08:32.000Everyone has holes in their games, and if you exploit those holes, you can beat them.
01:08:36.000You've seen Craig exploit some of their holes in their game, and Craig managed to beat them.
01:08:41.000But they do everything well, and they have three things which they do better than almost anybody else.
01:08:45.000So on a technical level, that's why they're so impressive is because they have something that differentiates them, and they're very dangerous, so you have to respect them from every position.
01:10:16.000He's the most feared athlete I've ever seen in ADCC. I'll never forget, one of his opponents in 2011 goes up to him, before they're about to face each other, hey man, if you catch my leg, please don't break it.
01:13:38.000Alan Belcher trained, I believe he took Lister down to camp with him, and they just went over every single aspect of leg-lock defense, and that's all they drilled.
01:15:18.000You really have an unrealistic idea of what your hands are capable of, though, if they're wrapped and gloved.
01:15:23.000Because your hands are very delicate instruments.
01:15:26.000I mean, some people's more than others, obviously, but no matter what you do with your hands, these fucking bones are not meant to be hitting people.
01:15:32.000They must break their hands every fight.
01:15:39.000Well, it's common in MMA. It's common in boxing, just in regular boxing.
01:15:43.000And in the last fight just this past weekend, Cyril Ghosn broke his hand on Tai Tuivasa's head.
01:15:50.000Yeah, but the thing about bare knuckles, I don't understand what they're doing with those raps, because they don't really have bare knuckles.
01:15:58.000I mean, the knuckles are bare, but the hand is somehow or another supported, which I think, you should be fucking bare knuckle, bare knuckle.
01:16:06.000It's like, you have bare elbows, you have bare knees, you have bare feet.
01:17:25.000Yeah, I mean, an elbow, you feel nothing.
01:17:27.000You could, like, you could do that on a table and it doesn't bother you at all.
01:17:30.000If you did that with your hand, that would really fucking hurt.
01:17:33.000But you see these guys, you know, fighting in bare knuckle boxing, and you're like, that's really interesting how that's kind of taking off.
01:22:32.000So I had recurring staph infections in 2018 and then I was taking oral antibiotics and it just wiped out everything in my stomach, like all the good bacteria, everything.
01:22:44.000And then I had But it ended up being a fungal overgrowth, a massive fungal overgrowth in my small intestine and a huge bacterial imbalance in my stomach and then H. pylori which I had.
01:22:58.000But it was misdiagnosed as gastroparesis because I did a stomach emptying test where you eat like radioactive eggs and they scan your stomach every x amount of like every half hour to see how it moves through the stomach and I was emptying slow.
01:23:12.000And so they misdiagnosed it as gastroparesis.
01:23:14.000I still have people message me every single day who are catching up on the podcast.
01:24:08.000And then we were doing the podcast and I was like traveling.
01:24:11.000I was like looking at houses in Austin because he convinced me to move to Austin.
01:24:15.000And I was here like eating restaurant food for like three days before and we went to the podcast and I was like, fuck, I can't even talk right now.
01:24:23.000Because you used to have to eat very bland food.
01:24:42.000Imagine you go to training and now picture you have the worst hangover you've ever had and you have to run a marathon 30 minutes later.
01:24:50.000The more tired you get, the worse it gets.
01:24:53.000So then I was like, yeah, I just, I can't do this anymore.
01:24:57.000And then somehow, like the stars aligned, and actually his doctor in California, because he had some bad stomach problems, he's like, you got to go to Dr. Rebar in California.
01:25:08.000And I saw him and he's like, yeah, I don't think you have gastroparesis.
01:25:11.000I think you just have something in your small intestines, which is backing up into your stomach.
01:25:16.000And causing like a bile and food backup, and that's why you're emptying slowly, and it's mimicking gastroparesis.
01:25:22.000So he did a bunch of tests that no one's ever done, and like my levels are like way off.
01:25:27.000Like one of the things was like normal was between like zero and five, and then high was like over five or over ten, and my level was like 555. It was just like 50 times what it was supposed to be.
01:25:43.000So I've been on this treatment now for a year.
01:26:33.000It's like a cycle where you just keep getting staph and keep...
01:26:36.000Fucking up your immune system in your stomach.
01:26:38.000So there was probably like a year period from like 2018 to 2019 where I think I was on antibiotics more than I wasn't for staph.
01:26:47.000I would like get staph and be like on 10 days, two weeks of medicine and then three days later I'd have staph again and I'd go back on antibiotics.
01:27:53.000But my friend Guy Sacco, who runs the company, he created it because wrestlers, like they were working with wrestlers, and they were all getting staff.
01:28:01.000And so he did all this research into various essential oils and things that are good for healthy bacteria but kill off bad bacteria.
01:28:10.000So it's got like eucalyptus oil and tea tree oil.
01:29:24.000First, I treated the H. pylori, and then I'm on a strong antifungal, and then all just immune and gut-supporting medicines that just take time to rebuild the gut bacteria and flush out the fungus and the bad bacteria.
01:29:41.000I know we talked about this before and the last time, but have you ever said, you know, I'm going to take like a month and just do some serious hardcore fasting and see if that helps?
01:30:25.000So, depending on my stomach, I'd be 205, you know, one day, and then I have a good month, and then I'm 225, 230, then I'm back to 210, and my weight would fluctuate based on how much I could eat.
01:30:36.000So, they put me on this regimen, and they gave me, you know, a bunch of stuff that increased my appetite, so I got super big, but I was still getting nauseous, so it didn't, like, fix the problem.
01:30:46.000I could eat more, but then I would just be nauseous after.
01:30:49.000So then I was using a combination of the ways to well stuff with his doctor, and now their stuff makes me more hungry, and I can actually eat food now, so everything's getting a little bit better.
01:31:01.000I used to just eat two eggs, and I would just feel it sitting in my stomach.
01:31:07.000So I would just be carrying food all day long.
01:31:10.000And then I'm trying to force feed myself to keep the weight on.
01:31:13.000And they actually did a test and they're like, yeah, not only can you not eat, but your body is only absorbing like 60% of the food that you actually do eat.
01:31:21.000So I was eating like 10 times less than I was supposed to and then just not absorbing half of it.
01:32:52.000I'm looking back now, I have no fucking idea how I did this.
01:32:56.000It's like we're doing tape study a lot of times and like we're doing tape study with my match against Lucas Barboza and I'm like talking about tactics and so right before the points part of the the fight started I set to guard and I'm like I'm like pause so it's like 20 of the guys watching the tape and I'm like you see tactically here I should have just kept hand fighting because he was getting really tired he was way more exhausted than I was I'm like, I should have just kept hand fighting and kept wrestling him.
01:33:25.000I would have broke him in the next few minutes.
01:33:27.000I'm like, but I was so goddamn nauseous that I had to just fucking sit to guard and recompose myself to get ready for the overtime because I fucking just couldn't wrestle anymore because I was so nauseous.
01:33:36.000So like a lot of stuff you see me do like isn't tactically correct, but I'm just like trying to manage the nausea through the match.
01:33:41.000What's crazy that when you talk about if your health holds up, with most grapplers, they're like, oh, my back, my arm, my this, my that.
01:35:11.000I'm not athletic, so I don't try to make myself more athletic than the other guy.
01:35:15.000I try to make him less athletic than I am.
01:35:17.000So you peak, especially with my kind of game or like a Hodger kind of game, you peak much later.
01:35:22.000So instead of peaking where you have, you know, you're 28 and now your explosivity will decline after that age, it doesn't matter.
01:35:30.000My game isn't built around being explosive.
01:35:32.000It's built around being isometrically strong and negating movement.
01:35:36.000So you hit your isometric peak between the ages of 35 and 40 while you still maintain cardio.
01:35:42.000After 40, you start to diminish with the cardio.
01:35:45.000But between 35 and 40 is when I'll be my strongest, and I'll have another 10 to 15 years of technical development, which I've only been training for 12 years now.
01:35:53.000So I'll have twice as much technical development, and I'll be more physically mature by the time I'm 35. So that's the time I'm really going to peak.
01:36:00.000It's not now at 27. It's 35 to 40. Wow.
01:40:19.000And then mount and back, there's just more friction to hold people and more collus to strangle with.
01:40:25.000The main thing that fucks me up is if I get caught in a spider guard or lasso guard with an expert who can keep my grips and not allow me to start flanking the legs and I get caught in a deep spider guard or something, it's kind of annoying.
01:40:41.000But people are just idiots and just think that you just lose all of your jiu-jitsu if you take the gi off or put the gi on.
01:41:37.000I always thought that combat samba was so strange because they're wearing headgear and shin pads and MMA gloves and shorts, but with a kimono top.
01:42:20.000I mean, there's a trickle-down effect, so everyone who fights me gets paid, like, twice as much.
01:42:25.000So athletes will make more, but I think that it is possible to bridge the gap into a spectator sport.
01:42:30.000I think there's always going to be a cap on how many people will watch it.
01:42:33.000Like, it's never going to be as big as the UFC, but I think it'll be a lot bigger than it is.
01:42:37.000And I think that we can start getting people to get paid well as real athletes for matches.
01:42:46.000I think that I'll be making seven figures a fight and other people will be making six figures a fight.
01:42:52.000So that people can compete and not have to worry like they can just compete and be athletes like right now if you want to make a career you have to own a school or you have to teach seminars you have to do something else you can't just be a competitor like for most people you know now if I'm competing I can be like I'm the first guy I think who can just make a like a career and be rich off just competing but that we're a long way off to have anybody else be able to do that How much of an impact has...
01:43:21.000I know you just recently started using a cold plunge.
01:43:24.000How much of an impact has that had on your recovery?
01:44:23.000And I'm like, okay, so I'll try a real one, I guess.
01:44:26.000But I felt, I don't really feel physically a lot better, but I feel so mentally sharp after I do it.
01:44:32.000I feel like very calm for the rest of the day, for like the next 24 hours.
01:44:36.000And I feel just like if I want to go to sleep because I basically just had a fucking panic attack I can warm up and then I can go to sleep or I can like wake up and like do shit that I have to do.
01:44:46.000So then I tried Brigham's at like 30 degrees and I sat for three minutes and I fucking got out.
01:45:39.000I had like a barbecue at my house, and one of the guys who's here filming for Future Kimonos, my sponsor, he's like a cameraman, and he's never done an ice bath before.
01:45:50.000So he gets in, and I'm like sitting down, I just did it, so I was sitting by the fire, warming up, and I look back, like fucking, I don't know, it felt like a half hour later, and he's still in there.
01:45:58.000And I'm like, how long has he been in there?
01:47:34.000If you move in the Morosco, you feel it like, oh fuck, I'm getting cold way faster.
01:47:39.000Yeah, like when I check my watch to see what time it is, how long I've been in there for, like, just the movement, like, then your hand's like, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck.
01:47:47.000Someone commented the other day on my Instagram, like, to, like, move around more because apparently when you sit still, your body creates, like, a thermal layer where it, like, I don't know, apparently you don't get as cold.
01:51:25.000One thing I will do, though, if I go back and forth and back and forth, then I'll do more sauna time.
01:51:29.000So I'll do, like, 20 minutes in the sauna, and then I'll do three minutes in the cold plunge, and then I'll do another 20 minutes in the sauna.
01:51:35.000And by the time that 20 minutes is up, I'm barely, I mean, I'm barely suffering.
01:51:40.000And then I'll do another two minutes in the cold plunge, and I end it always on cold.
01:51:59.000Like, I feel like if I do, like, a hard workout, like in my gym, I have to, like, take, like, ten minutes at least to cool down before I can get into the cold plunge.
01:52:09.000I'm just like, my body's just, like, so shocked.
01:52:11.000I feel like if I just sat in the sauna and relaxed for, like, 20 minutes after the workout, it would be a lot better to then move into the ice bath.
01:52:18.000It also increases your red blood cell count.
01:52:23.000And it also maintains your heart rate.
01:52:26.000So if you do a hard training session, and you have elevated heart rate, and then you go straight into the sauna, it maintains an elevated heart rate.
01:52:34.000Like, I've gone in the sauna with one of them chest straps on, the MyZone's chest straps, and it was reading 140 beats per minute just sitting there in the sauna.
01:52:44.000Because I'd gone right from working out and gone.
01:52:47.000It's so fucking hot, like, you don't get a chance to, like, completely cool down.
01:52:51.000So your body's pumping all that blood.
01:52:53.000It's like an extra 20-minute workout, essentially.
01:54:38.000Like, the government's gonna come in and tell you you're not allowed to train.
01:54:43.000I know a lot of people who lost their businesses.
01:54:44.000And now COVID's still around, and all the people who are yelling at you are just walking around like it's normal now.
01:54:49.000How about that Dr. Lena Wen, the lady from CNN, is now telling everybody that her children's verbal skills, their speech development, was hampered by wearing a mask.
01:54:58.000Like, yeah, they could have told you that.
01:55:52.000Vitamin D deficiency is a giant problem.
01:55:54.000At one point in time, they did a study which showed that 84% of the people in the ICU were deficient in vitamin D. The funny thing is, I thought obesity would be the number one.
01:56:04.000It was actually, I believe, vitamin D. Yeah, it was like 78% was obesity and 84% was...
01:56:36.000And now that they know that they don't work, like they've talked about it on CNN. I mean, like that same lady that Dr. Lena Nguyen just said that it's like facial decorations, that a regular cloth mask is like facial decorations.
01:56:48.000And they increase the chances you get bacterial pneumonia, right?
01:58:17.000But, I mean, everyone who moved there with us moved back here, and then a couple of the guys, like three of the guys, we have Fernando, Luis, and Juan, who have lived their whole lives in Puerto Rico.
01:58:30.000Like, Fernando's almost 40. He's been there his whole life, and they moved to Austin with us to train, so that was pretty cool.
01:58:39.000Yeah, we were training out of our buddy's gym.
01:58:41.000He actually used a gym for one of his camps where he brings guys down.
01:58:45.000And then it was called Combat 360. And we were just training there for the year, trying to open up a gym, which he was like hammering away trying to get people to help us and just was literally impossible to do any sort of business.
01:58:58.000I remember John was going to strangle one of these guys.
02:00:29.000It takes an hour just to get from L.A. to L.A. And if the shit goes down, if something happens, if there's an earthquake, if something goes down, you're not getting anywhere.
02:01:40.000There's just so much good shit about this town, and then there's so many comedy clubs here, and I've talked so many comedians into moving here now.
02:01:49.000I'm taking him to see Kill Tony tonight.
02:01:51.000Oh, you're going to have a great time.
02:01:53.000The only thing I like doing, because I'm from L.A., but not too much of a fan as I used to be, but the only thing I like doing there is going to the comedy store.
02:01:59.000So every time I'm there, I go like three, four times a week.
02:02:01.000Yeah, the Comedy Store is awesome, but we're recreating something like that here.
02:05:12.000They don't care if they really believe that.
02:05:15.000They care if they can pretend that they believe that so that they have a target, so that they can pour all their outrage at and it makes them look more virtuous.
02:05:23.000But it's really just about cutting someone down to make yourself look better.
02:05:27.000If you look at the content of what Chappelle put out that they criticized, it's not transphobic at all.
02:07:42.000It's just a weird time for people and their opinions, you know, because it's so easy to get an opinion magnified.
02:07:50.000Like if you have an opinion and then a bunch of people retweet that opinion and, you know, you see people, they spend all day on Twitter just posting their opinions on things and bitching about shit.
02:08:10.000If you collectively looked at the people that post the most on Twitter, and then you looked at the amount of medication those people are taking, the amount of therapy those people are taking, the amount of anxiety and mental illness those people have, It's not representative of the general population.
02:11:29.000It's another one of those cases where we were talking about the early days of MMA, recognizing that Jiu Jitsu is really the only martial arts that delivers as promised.
02:11:40.000A small, technical person can defeat a larger, untrained person.