The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #146 with Francis Ngannou

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00:00:13.000 What's up champ?

00:00:14.000 How are you?

00:00:15.000 I'm good.

00:00:15.000 Good to see you.

00:00:16.000 Good to see you again.

00:00:17.000 So you have been on a journey, my friend.

00:00:21.000 A lot of things have happened.

00:00:23.000 First of all, congratulations on securing this fight.

00:00:25.000 That is a big deal.

00:00:27.000 A lot of people doubted it was going to happen.

00:00:29.000 You were right.

00:00:30.000 Thank you, thank you.

00:00:31.000 Yes, it was a big deal.

00:00:33.000 It wasn't easy, but we finally get it.

00:00:37.000 You know, I get the help of a lot of people, and the Saudis were very interesting about this fight.

00:00:45.000 Yeah, it was one of those fights where you had to take a big gamble by relinquishing your UFC crown.

00:00:52.000 I didn't relinquish anything.

00:00:53.000 You didn't relinquish it.

00:00:54.000 Yeah.

00:00:55.000 Well, fill me in then.

00:00:56.000 Tell me what happened.

00:00:57.000 Well, we didn't come to an agreement.

00:00:59.000 You didn't come to an agreement?

00:01:00.000 Yeah.

00:01:01.000 So you decided, I'm not signing with the UFC. You're a free agent.

00:01:04.000 Yes.

00:01:06.000 And then, did negotiations then start for the Tyson Fury fight?

00:01:11.000 How did it start?

00:01:13.000 You know, it's been like four years since Tyson Fury and I, we've been going back and forth on social media.

00:01:20.000 So, there was a little bit of a warm-up somewhere there.

00:01:23.000 And...

00:01:26.000 It kind of takes a couple months before we get to a conversation.

00:01:32.000 It wasn't just easy.

00:01:33.000 There's boxing promotion.

00:01:35.000 The boxing world is a little wild.

00:01:37.000 Yeah, it's a little different.

00:01:38.000 It's completely different.

00:01:40.000 It's a different animal.

00:01:41.000 In what way?

00:01:42.000 Explain to us.

00:01:43.000 The way that they do things, you know, it's this guy from this promotion fighting against this guy from this promotion who has a better position, who has what to lose, who is getting what, and then how they kind of like put things, I will not say manipulate, but a little bit like that.

00:02:04.000 Everybody trying to adjust things on its own benefit.

00:02:07.000 Look what is good for him, which is good, but yeah.

00:02:12.000 A lot of boxing fights don't get made.

00:02:14.000 They get talked about for a long time, like Tyson Fury and Usyk.

00:02:19.000 For a long time it was Terence Crawford and Earl Spence.

00:02:22.000 They get talked about for a long time.

00:02:24.000 And they almost get made, and then they don't get made.

00:02:26.000 And they almost get made, and then they don't get made.

00:02:29.000 A lot of politics behind.

00:02:31.000 A lot of promotion that will be behind the fight just to, you know, push their position.

00:02:38.000 Everybody's pushing his position.

00:02:40.000 It's not mostly about the fight.

00:02:44.000 It's about like, okay, we control the game.

00:02:48.000 Do we have enough control here?

00:02:50.000 Do we control everything?

00:02:52.000 Yeah.

00:02:53.000 So was it frustrating for you?

00:02:54.000 Because I imagine there was a while where you weren't sure whether or not it was going to be made.

00:02:59.000 It wasn't frustrating, you know, before I made my decision when I separated with the UFC and I knew, I mean, long time before, like, I remember even when I fought Syringham, even before that fight, I was telling myself, and I was even telling this on interview, like, okay, If this is the end, then he has to end my way.

00:03:29.000 Not because I was sure that it was going to happen.

00:03:31.000 I knew that it could have not happened, right?

00:03:35.000 But I was to be in peace with my decision.

00:03:39.000 So that's the thing about it.

00:03:42.000 And I'm very happy that it happened.

00:03:46.000 It makes it even better.

00:03:48.000 But I knew there was a risk that it didn't happen.

00:03:53.000 I had to take a chance.

00:03:54.000 So what was the holdup with the UFC? What led you to not sign?

00:04:02.000 There was a lot of frustration over the years.

00:04:05.000 I think since my fight against Tipe, my first fight against Tipe, my relation with the UFC has never been the same.

00:04:15.000 Really?

00:04:15.000 Yeah.

00:04:16.000 Why?

00:04:17.000 In what way?

00:04:18.000 I don't know.

00:04:18.000 I tried everything.

00:04:21.000 I felt like I wasn't in the right place.

00:04:28.000 And after that, then I get the Derek Lewis fight.

00:04:32.000 It was like the worst fight.

00:04:34.000 And that didn't help me at all, you know.

00:04:37.000 So I think from that moment I was already put in some position out there.

00:04:45.000 Because I came back, I won multiple fights, and they came with a new deal.

00:04:53.000 This was after Junior Dos Santos back in June 2017. And then He was a make who called for a new deal and then until my team was on the way to the negotiation, who was in Anaheim when Stipe and G.C. were fighting the second time, and then I'm like, no.

00:05:20.000 Then I said no, no new deal for Francis.

00:05:23.000 He still has three fights on his contract.

00:05:25.000 And to be honest, I was even happy because I wanted to knock that deal out.

00:05:30.000 By that time, I understood a little bit about the market.

00:05:34.000 I just wanted to find out my contract and renegotiate as free, you know.

00:05:42.000 But then...

00:05:46.000 A month after, we get a call from, I think, was Hunter or somebody there?

00:05:52.000 They say, oh, yeah, let's talk about a new deal for Francis.

00:05:57.000 And at that time, like, there's not a new deal.

00:06:01.000 We're all like, we just want to fight, you know.

00:06:03.000 It's already September or...

00:06:07.000 Yeah, we are in September, and my last fight was in June.

00:06:13.000 I won a fight.

00:06:15.000 So the New Deal staff be holding me back.

00:06:18.000 They didn't give me a fight.

00:06:20.000 Because they wanted you to sign a New Deal.

00:06:22.000 They wanted me to sign a New Deal.

00:06:23.000 And you didn't want to sign a New Deal.

00:06:24.000 You wanted to fight your contract down.

00:06:26.000 I wanted to fight my contract down.

00:06:28.000 So they were slowing things down.

00:06:30.000 They were slowing things down.

00:06:31.000 So if you see like the interval between my Junior Dos Santos fight and Jardino Rosenstruck fight was almost a year.

00:06:39.000 I mean...

00:06:41.000 It's also COVID, right?

00:06:42.000 Yeah, there was a COVID in between, but without COVID, it would still be like 10 months, right?

00:06:47.000 And then from Rosenstruck to Stipe...

00:06:51.000 Same thing.

00:06:53.000 Then Stipe to Sirungan, almost the same thing.

00:06:56.000 It was mostly about the contract.

00:06:59.000 So then finally you fight out the contract and then what happens?

00:07:04.000 We didn't come to an agreement at all because during this time there was still a negotiation pushing and stuff and I wanted to fight out that contract.

00:07:16.000 Proposal of money, obviously they know my position because I was pressure financially.

00:07:22.000 You know, when you have a fight you expect to fight at least at that level.

00:07:27.000 At that moment I was expecting to fight at least two.

00:07:29.000 Or three times a year, right?

00:07:32.000 Then I get to the point that I have one fight, I have nothing.

00:07:36.000 So I was limited of income, stuff like that.

00:07:41.000 Then I started borrowing money.

00:07:45.000 Even before the Stipe fight, when they announced that fight, I need to call to ask for advance of my purse to finance my training camp.

00:07:53.000 I have no money.

00:07:54.000 But I was there training and getting ready for almost a year.

00:08:01.000 So I took some advance.

00:08:03.000 That's got to be very stressful.

00:08:05.000 Yeah, but one thing, and that's like one thing that I'm always grateful about in my life.

00:08:12.000 I used to this situation, and I told myself, like, these people, they don't know me.

00:08:17.000 I can live out of nothing.

00:08:19.000 I live in the street, bro.

00:08:22.000 And then I'm here in Las Vegas, you think like, okay, I don't fight.

00:08:27.000 I just have to change everything I'm able to live out of the bare minimum.

00:08:33.000 And I don't care if I walk around, you guys say, oh, champ, oh, that's a UFC contender, whatever it is.

00:08:40.000 Man, I just live based on what is in my, uh, based on my asset.

00:08:46.000 I don't live beyond that.

00:08:47.000 That's why, like, I don't really trust those credit card systems or those loans and stuff. 1.00

00:08:54.000 That's America shit, bro. 1.00

00:08:56.000 I don't. 1.00

00:08:57.000 I don't trust that.

00:08:58.000 Because when he lets you down, he lets you down.

00:09:01.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:09:02.000 I check my wallet, whatever is in my wallet, I leave based on that.

00:09:08.000 I don't go loan and stuff unless like I'm forced at some point or it's an investment like having taken the money, borrowing money for your training camp, you know?

00:09:20.000 Right.

00:09:20.000 That's a different thing.

00:09:22.000 So you win the Sirogan fight, then what happens?

00:09:30.000 Well, first dinner didn't come to the ring, to the octagon for the belt.

00:09:36.000 Yeah, and then after that, they get this dinner, invite us to this dinner, trying to smooth things out.

00:09:46.000 Again, the condition at that time, I think at that time, for me, it was more than a contract.

00:09:52.000 It was like a lot of frustration from the past almost three years, you know.

00:09:58.000 I'm like, okay, I have no guarantee that signing this contract, I will not get into what I have been to in the past three years.

00:10:09.000 So how about we change something that will make me feel secure?

00:10:14.000 And what did you want to change?

00:10:19.000 A lot of things.

00:10:22.000 First of all, I want a contract without extension because I have seen how they can abuse of those extensions.

00:10:29.000 Can you explain to me how the extension works?

00:10:31.000 Oh, well, I mean, there's not a way that he works.

00:10:37.000 The extension is that because they say if you deny a fight, they can extend you for six months or something.

00:10:47.000 If you're hurt and can't fight, they can extend you for six months or something.

00:10:52.000 But the problem, the UFC is the judge and the party.

00:10:57.000 They decide if...

00:11:00.000 They will extend you.

00:11:02.000 You have no say.

00:11:03.000 So when they say, oh, you fight tomorrow, you say, uh, no.

00:11:08.000 No, I'm like, okay, no problem.

00:11:10.000 We were just checking.

00:11:12.000 And then maybe a week after you will receive a letter of extension, like your contract has been extended for six months.

00:11:19.000 And that's what happened with me.

00:11:22.000 Even if you're injured, like say if they propose a fight for you, like here we are in September.

00:11:26.000 If they propose a fight for you in Madison Square Garden in November and you say, I can't because I'm injured.

00:11:32.000 Oh no, that extension.

00:11:33.000 Then they put up a six month extension.

00:11:35.000 Oh yeah, that's extension.

00:11:37.000 Anytime you refuse a fight?

00:11:39.000 Is that what it is?

00:11:40.000 Yeah.

00:11:41.000 And refuse is subjective.

00:11:45.000 Right.

00:11:46.000 It could mean you can't fight because you're injured.

00:11:49.000 Like when you tore your knee ligaments.

00:11:51.000 Oh no, that is an extension.

00:11:53.000 Extension?

00:11:54.000 Yeah, that's clearly an extension.

00:11:56.000 For example, my extension, for example, the first one, when I forced Tipe, right?

00:12:02.000 And I have been fighting almost once a year in the past three years.

00:12:07.000 I forced Tipe on March 27th.

00:12:12.000 And then, April 2nd, Mick is calling my team.

00:12:16.000 And I tell them, like, oh, I want to fight, stay active.

00:12:20.000 I want to fight twice this year again.

00:12:23.000 Summer, which is July or August, and December.

00:12:26.000 And then, April 2nd, they are calling to ask me to fight and I was getting ready.

00:12:33.000 It was a big moment in my life.

00:12:35.000 I'm like, I'm bringing this trophy home.

00:12:38.000 You're the champ now.

00:12:40.000 Right.

00:12:41.000 And they called to ask me if I can fight on June 12th.

00:12:46.000 It was June 6th or something like that.

00:12:50.000 I'm like, bro, give me a time.

00:12:53.000 I mean, they said, no, we were just offering in case because Francis said he want to fight twice this year.

00:13:00.000 I'm like, yes, I do.

00:13:02.000 And I said, July the earliest and August, And December.

00:13:09.000 And I knew that I can take one, two, three weeks out, maybe go home, do stuff, and come back.

00:13:18.000 And I'm like, no, no, no.

00:13:20.000 Totally understandable.

00:13:22.000 He was just to check in case it worked for you.

00:13:28.000 He wasn't really...

00:13:31.000 Couple months after, I received an extension about that.

00:13:35.000 But you know why?

00:13:36.000 Because my contract originally supposed to end in May 20th of that year.

00:13:45.000 So, if my contract ends on May 20th of that year, that means the championship close kicks in, which is one year.

00:13:56.000 But...

00:13:57.000 If they extend me, I have to go all the way to the extension before the championship close kicks in.

00:14:04.000 So it was more time.

00:14:08.000 And when they say, no, it's okay.

00:14:11.000 No problem.

00:14:12.000 We were just checking.

00:14:13.000 And I was in Cameroon on May 19th.

00:14:19.000 So one day before my original contract, which was 14 months, expired, and then the championship kicked in, I received an extension letter.

00:14:29.000 I was in Cameroon suffering of COVID at that time.

00:14:34.000 So I received an extension letter.

00:14:37.000 So now I'm extended until November 28th.

00:14:42.000 Even though you told them you wanted to fight in July?

00:14:45.000 Yeah.

00:14:47.000 So they just tack on?

00:14:48.000 Oh no, they just tacked on.

00:14:50.000 And you have nothing to say.

00:14:51.000 It's effective from the moment that they send that letter out.

00:14:54.000 Okay, so your new contract, you wanted no extensions.

00:14:57.000 That's one thing.

00:14:58.000 Yeah, that's one thing.

00:14:59.000 Was one of them the ability to box?

00:15:03.000 One of them was the ability to box.

00:15:06.000 They said that wasn't an option.

00:15:08.000 Boxing is dead.

00:15:10.000 It's not possible.

00:15:11.000 This and that.

00:15:13.000 Now what does that feel like to you knowing that Conor McGregor did it and fought Floyd Mayweather and made a hundred million dollars?

00:15:18.000 What is that like for you to be sitting there being told that you can't box?

00:15:25.000 Well, I don't use to take what people tell me for an answer.

00:15:35.000 I used to do my own thing on my own way.

00:15:41.000 And it seems to work pretty good.

00:15:44.000 But I wasn't going to force to change everything.

00:15:48.000 I wasn't expecting to go there and demand this, demand that, and just have everything.

00:15:53.000 It's a big company.

00:15:55.000 It's like an institution.

00:15:57.000 So there's a way that they do things, and that can change.

00:16:01.000 So I'm like, okay, if so, let's take boxing out.

00:16:08.000 Why?

00:16:08.000 Because give me three fights, contract of three fights.

00:16:13.000 I knew that I can knock a three-fight contract in a year.

00:16:17.000 Then from that moment, I was free.

00:16:20.000 Because I want a middle ground, like an alternative, a way to get out by giving something out, you know, to get something at the end.

00:16:29.000 Got it.

00:16:29.000 You know, because it's really hard to get in the negotiation and just like, oh, I want this, I want that, and I want that, and stop there.

00:16:37.000 At some point, you have to compromise to push back, give something in order to get something.

00:16:43.000 So stuff like that was the thing that I was about it.

00:16:49.000 And that seems to be attractive to them.

00:16:55.000 So, three fights there, no extension.

00:17:00.000 That seems to be attractive.

00:17:02.000 Two fights were supposed to be potentially Jon Jones, fight and rematch, and one fight is the trilogy with Stipe.

00:17:09.000 That was the request.

00:17:11.000 And work for both parties.

00:17:16.000 Then we get to another point.

00:17:21.000 Sponsorship deal.

00:17:23.000 Why sponsorship deal?

00:17:25.000 Because before that, I had a deal. 0.97

00:17:28.000 After the stupid fight, I had a deal on the table for over a million dollars for a cryptocurrency wallet. 0.95

00:17:38.000 So I was going to have, I think, 1.2 million, which is the money that I never had in the fight. 0.99

00:17:48.000 I was going to have that in the sponsorship.

00:17:50.000 And the deal was this close to sign.

00:17:53.000 And then they announced the crypto.com deal.

00:17:57.000 And then the party pulled off.

00:17:58.000 I'm like, bro, we can do.

00:18:00.000 You understand our position.

00:18:02.000 You can carry this in the octagon while behind.

00:18:07.000 We are trying to push.

00:18:10.000 Did you try to make a deal with crypto.com?

00:18:13.000 No.

00:18:15.000 At that moment, crypto.com, they don't care.

00:18:18.000 They have a deal with the UFC. And you're going to wear it, whether you like it or not.

00:18:23.000 You don't have a say.

00:18:25.000 And now I'm like, I think this is messed up.

00:18:29.000 We need to sell this.

00:18:30.000 I need a sponsorship.

00:18:31.000 I need a right to have my own sponsor.

00:18:37.000 Fighters should be able to have two, three sponsorships on their gears.

00:18:44.000 I mean, I understand that we want to make this ball grow, make it nice.

00:18:51.000 We can also...

00:18:52.000 Meanwhile, you can have a department who checks all the sponsors.

00:18:56.000 Like, oh no, this is not good because of this reason.

00:18:59.000 It doesn't represent the sport well.

00:19:01.000 Right?

00:19:02.000 Right.

00:19:02.000 But there are a lot of good staff out there that will also help fighters to provide, to get a little more money.

00:19:13.000 And that was another discussion.

00:19:15.000 I'm like, oh, you can't do that.

00:19:18.000 That's not work.

00:19:19.000 I'm like, okay.

00:19:21.000 So what is working exactly?

00:19:23.000 They make me some kind of like a proposal, which I don't know, it doesn't even make sense.

00:19:31.000 And the other one was because of the fact that I was in this position for so long and I was just so powerless.

00:19:44.000 The reason why I stay in this position, why I keep holding my ground, was only because in the contract there is what they call the sunset clause.

00:19:55.000 So, meaning, like, after five years, from the beginning, from the day you signed the contract, it doesn't matter what is in the contract, the contract expires.

00:20:06.000 They can extend you past that date.

00:20:11.000 So, my end goal from the beginning, from the moment that I know that, okay, I'm going to hold this ground, I know that I have to face some obstacles.

00:20:21.000 So my end goal was the five years, the sunset.

00:20:25.000 I had the sunset day in my mind, December 9, 2022. I had that day in my mind for like almost three years.

00:20:35.000 So when I was receiving all this extension letter, I mean, I couldn't fight it either way, but in my mind, I was just like, It's okay.

00:20:45.000 One thing that I know, just focus on December 9, 2022, and then you will be fine.

00:20:53.000 So, after that, then I'm like, okay, if I sign a new deal, I don't know, even if there's not extension, there have been a proof of like, How could I say it?

00:21:08.000 In a nice way.

00:21:09.000 Abuse of power, right?

00:21:12.000 But Why are we in this position?

00:21:18.000 This is the position that every fighter gets into, right?

00:21:23.000 I mean, be feeling powerless.

00:21:25.000 We might be many hundreds of us, but it's every individual at the time.

00:21:31.000 We are very separated.

00:21:33.000 Every case is separated.

00:21:35.000 So, which means you're just weak.

00:21:39.000 It's just you against the big monster, which is the company, the institution, so you can fight.

00:21:45.000 How can we make it make sense?

00:21:48.000 I mean, we are not going for union, but...

00:21:53.000 At least you guys sometime, before making some decisions, how about you have somebody in the room who can understand things from our perspective because I do believe that all the decisions that you might make who hurt us is not meant to hurt.

00:22:11.000 But maybe just because you don't understand our position.

00:22:14.000 Maybe if somebody is speaking for us, Again, I don't know who he could be, but just be mindful that, okay, this is fighter position.

00:22:27.000 Maybe that will help.

00:22:29.000 So you go through all this, and then where did it break down to the point where you had to walk away?

00:22:36.000 He broke down December 6th, I think it was December...

00:22:41.000 No, December 28th.

00:22:46.000 I don't remember, 19 or 22nd, something like that.

00:22:50.000 I had a dinner with Hunter.

00:22:53.000 After we've been going through stuff, he said no to this, no to that.

00:22:59.000 But I have a focus.

00:23:01.000 I know that, okay, if I give three fights here, since they are willing to take the three fights, it's going to make...

00:23:11.000 I don't want to break this relationship like this.

00:23:15.000 I don't want it to be a war.

00:23:17.000 I can't stand.

00:23:20.000 I can't stand in this.

00:23:24.000 So we can get Trying to fix things up.

00:23:29.000 But when we met again, that day was the first time over all this time that we have to talk about the financial aspect.

00:23:38.000 I mean, he has to propose a financial aspect.

00:23:42.000 Right.

00:23:43.000 So he proposed it at dinner.

00:23:44.000 Yeah, he proposed at dinner.

00:23:46.000 And then I just like...

00:23:49.000 This guy's making fun of me.

00:23:51.000 Making fun of you?

00:23:52.000 Yeah.

00:23:53.000 So it was disrespectful?

00:23:54.000 It was like not valuable enough for you?

00:23:57.000 Not at all.

00:23:59.000 Hmm.

00:24:00.000 And you're the champ at the time.

00:24:01.000 Yeah.

00:24:02.000 I mean, not at all.

00:24:04.000 Like, when you're talking about pay-per-view, then you're negotiating pay-per-view, and then you see numbers like 1.25 pay-buys and stuff like that, and the pay-per-view is going from $60 to $80 in the past five years.

00:24:25.000 And you realize that the 0.25 that is on top of it is just out of the $20 that's been added on.

00:24:38.000 I'm like, come on, man.

00:24:40.000 It's not my first pay-per-view contract.

00:24:46.000 It just wasn't enough money.

00:24:48.000 It wasn't even about the money, even how it was structured, even how it was.

00:24:54.000 I'm like, this doesn't make sense.

00:24:58.000 You know, I went home and I was so...

00:25:03.000 I don't know, frustrated or disappointed?

00:25:06.000 I don't know how I can describe.

00:25:09.000 But one thing I know, I went online, I'm like, I'm missing Christmas with my family.

00:25:14.000 I'm here training for a potential John Jones fight, which might not happen.

00:25:20.000 What for?

00:25:21.000 Seems like we're not getting anywhere close.

00:25:23.000 I booked a flight that night to go to Cameroon.

00:25:27.000 And I was in Cameroon in the Christmas, and then...

00:25:31.000 Couple days after, I received a text from Mick, Mick Minner, who was, you know, Mick usually sometimes just sent me a friendly text to check on me, and then we talked a little bit, and then he talked about the...

00:25:48.000 The contract.

00:25:50.000 He heard that we didn't come to a term.

00:25:54.000 I said, yes.

00:25:55.000 He said, is it anything that I can do?

00:25:58.000 I'm like, I don't think so.

00:26:01.000 We didn't just have an agreement.

00:26:05.000 And he said, how about we talk again?

00:26:12.000 Let's get in a meeting with Hunter again and talk.

00:26:16.000 And as I said, make always be nice.

00:26:20.000 And I couldn't say no.

00:26:23.000 I'm like, yes, let's try.

00:26:25.000 In fact, I wish it could have worked.

00:26:28.000 You know, because to be honest, I never like really before all this, I never imagined a life out of the UFC. I thought he would be like my fighting platform onto my retirement or something.

00:26:43.000 But clearly things has changed along the way.

00:26:48.000 So even when they came back a second time, it still was not enough.

00:26:54.000 Yeah.

00:26:56.000 Because when they came back, and all this time that we've been talking, they've been talking about the...

00:27:04.000 What is the term?

00:27:08.000 Back pay.

00:27:09.000 Yeah, we're going to back pay you.

00:27:12.000 Because from all the fight that I've been refusing to renegotiate, the pay that they were proposing, they said they're going to back pay me that...

00:27:23.000 When they come out now and then make pay better, and now I'm like, OK, the back pay and this and that, and I'm like, no, no, everything is in this contract.

00:27:35.000 This is it.

00:27:36.000 This is it.

00:27:37.000 Then I'm like, OK. Well, then I don't know what to say if you say this is it, because it's against your word.

00:27:46.000 You say something, and now you say this is it.

00:27:49.000 I said, I don't have the back pay, bro.

00:27:51.000 So they proposed the back pay and then they took it away?

00:27:55.000 Yeah, they've been proposing the back pay before.

00:27:59.000 After the series fight, they invite us to a dinner and then keep reminding me how they're going to back pay me, everything.

00:28:11.000 Because I have a good proposal at the time, but I know that proposal, and he was a good money, but I know he was just a bear to sign a contract.

00:28:22.000 It was just to put the pen on the paper.

00:28:24.000 It wasn't really a good fit, like, how do you want to give me a good contract?

00:28:32.000 And they get to the point that I'm like, no, everything is in this.

00:28:37.000 I'm like, OK, I don't see it.

00:28:41.000 And we were kind of like silenced for a couple of seconds, like, What's that mean?

00:28:49.000 I'm like, you know, then we hang out.

00:28:54.000 So at that point, do you start to talk to people like the PFL and NFC? No.

00:29:01.000 At that point, I stopped.

00:29:03.000 I didn't do anything.

00:29:05.000 When we stopped that convention, I didn't do anything.

00:29:08.000 Until, like, I started to see all these things on social media, and then I saw the day in a press conference, like, oh, we get rid of Francis.

00:29:22.000 Yes, he's not getting any younger, he's injured.

00:29:25.000 I'm like, yes, he's not getting any younger, but you were trying to have him.

00:29:30.000 He's injured, but you were trying to have him.

00:29:32.000 Now, you didn't come to an agreement, you're batching him.

00:29:38.000 That's when I started to respond.

00:29:40.000 Because I never really want this to be something on me.

00:29:44.000 And I was expecting maybe to go out there and just say, oh, unfortunately we didn't come to agreement and this and that.

00:29:52.000 And thank you.

00:29:54.000 Good luck.

00:29:55.000 Right?

00:29:56.000 And then we move away.

00:29:59.000 But that's not how they do things over there.

00:30:03.000 So you decide to start talking to other people then.

00:30:07.000 Yeah.

00:30:08.000 And who do you talk to first?

00:30:12.000 People started to reach out.

00:30:14.000 I wasn't even the one talking to people.

00:30:17.000 And, you know, at that time, I just want to let this weight drop out of my shoulder.

00:30:24.000 For some reason, I feel relieved.

00:30:27.000 I feel relief.

00:30:28.000 There was so much pressure into that process.

00:30:32.000 And I was in Camero and I'm like, man, just live your life, you know.

00:30:37.000 Whatever is yours out there will come to you.

00:30:42.000 But...

00:30:44.000 I get the first person that reached out was Pete Murray from PFL. And then I was just like, yes, let's hear him out.

00:30:57.000 And he came out.

00:30:58.000 We speak.

00:31:00.000 He asked, like, what I'm looking for and stuff.

00:31:03.000 We speak.

00:31:04.000 I'm like, ah, looks good.

00:31:06.000 A couple of days after, he made a proposal.

00:31:10.000 I didn't even ask for anything, but when he made a proposal, I looked at the structure of that proposal and I thought, this is good.

00:31:22.000 Everything was being taken into consideration.

00:31:26.000 Obviously, there's always going to be a way to negotiate in a contract, but the way that they structured it, I was already happy.

00:31:37.000 I'm like, I think this guy is trying to make me happy.

00:31:42.000 Yeah, well, they need someone like you.

00:31:45.000 The PFL doesn't really have the big stars.

00:31:48.000 Yeah.

00:31:49.000 So, but we keep that contract and at that time I'm like, let's wait.

00:31:54.000 I'm not rushing to anything.

00:31:55.000 Take some time and everything.

00:31:59.000 So you didn't sign that yet?

00:32:00.000 No, I didn't sign.

00:32:01.000 We also get to a chatry.

00:32:05.000 Even chatry, reach out, we talk, same thing.

00:32:08.000 And then a couple of days, they send their own contract.

00:32:14.000 But when I was putting that contract next to the PFL one, it was day and night.

00:32:21.000 The PFL was much better?

00:32:23.000 Yeah.

00:32:24.000 Okay.

00:32:25.000 And the PFL put a clause in to allow you to box?

00:32:29.000 Yeah.

00:32:30.000 Boxing was first for me.

00:32:33.000 Would the PFL be involved in the boxing promotion?

00:32:36.000 That was up to me.

00:32:37.000 That was up to me.

00:32:38.000 But they didn't really want to.

00:32:41.000 It's not their expertise, but if they can help in some way or be involved in some way, again, it's up to me.

00:32:49.000 So, very independent contract.

00:32:56.000 But I was more looking at boxing.

00:33:01.000 That's the first time that I started to have dialogue about boxing and stuff.

00:33:07.000 And I know there were some conversations with you fighting.

00:33:10.000 There was Deontay Wilder they talked about.

00:33:13.000 I think they talked about Dillian White.

00:33:16.000 He was Deontay Wilder.

00:33:18.000 We had a conversation with Deontay Wilder, Tim, even with him.

00:33:24.000 I personally was on the...

00:33:29.000 Meeting with him, conference with him, that we were talking about a potential to fight him.

00:33:37.000 And that was going well.

00:33:40.000 And I think even to this day, we are kind of like open about it.

00:33:46.000 It's just, along the way, he has the potential opportunity right away that they say, okay, we would like to pursue the conversation about what we have here.

00:34:00.000 And for us, it was understandable.

00:34:03.000 I'm like, okay, then let's explore, maybe after.

00:34:08.000 And then right after that, I started a conversation with For the fury fight.

00:34:21.000 Because I get a call.

00:34:23.000 I was driving to the airport and I get a call to meet in New York for some conversation about the fury fight.

00:34:35.000 And then when I get in New York, Next week, we scheduled out next week.

00:34:41.000 I get in New York.

00:34:42.000 We get to the room.

00:34:44.000 I meet the people.

00:34:46.000 It was the right people.

00:34:48.000 We spoke.

00:34:49.000 I heard them.

00:34:51.000 I knew them, right?

00:34:55.000 And I'm like, okay.

00:34:56.000 This is legit.

00:34:58.000 I think with these people behind this fight, it's going to happen.

00:35:01.000 That's where I now put them in contact with my team to negotiate because they wanted me to do everything.

00:35:11.000 Let's negotiate.

00:35:12.000 I'm like, I don't do negotiation.

00:35:16.000 I listen.

00:35:18.000 I talk about how I would like things to go, but I don't like to negotiate personally.

00:35:27.000 Right.

00:35:27.000 Of course.

00:35:28.000 I want this.

00:35:28.000 I deserve this.

00:35:29.000 I'm that.

00:35:31.000 I'd rather have somebody do that on my behalf.

00:35:34.000 Right.

00:35:35.000 Somebody do that on your behalf and you want to respond to a good deal.

00:35:38.000 To a good deal.

00:35:38.000 You want a good deal brought to you.

00:35:39.000 Yeah.

00:35:39.000 Okay.

00:35:40.000 I want somebody...

00:35:41.000 It's always good to have somebody in the mirror that would take the temper of both parties.

00:35:46.000 Right.

00:35:46.000 Because a deal can fall off Joseph because somebody's mad and his ego take over and the deal is off, right?

00:35:56.000 Right.

00:35:57.000 But when there's somebody in between, And you always come to like, okay, it's not him.

00:36:05.000 And just to think about it.

00:36:06.000 And that's what happened.

00:36:08.000 Because sometimes with my team, they were frustrated.

00:36:13.000 And I'm like, oh no, this is not working.

00:36:15.000 And then they would come to you.

00:36:17.000 And then you would talk nice.

00:36:19.000 You know, be a nice cop.

00:36:21.000 Have no problem.

00:36:22.000 I'm like, no.

00:36:23.000 But my team is saying this because they didn't mean to offend you, you know.

00:36:28.000 But I think, you know.

00:36:29.000 Got it.

00:36:30.000 Frustrating, right?

00:36:31.000 Yeah.

00:36:32.000 I mean, no, no frustrating.

00:36:34.000 Complicated.

00:36:34.000 Yeah.

00:36:35.000 But over the time, you learn, you understand how it works, and it's pretty easy.

00:36:40.000 Okay.

00:36:40.000 It's pretty easy.

00:36:41.000 So, you're in the driver's seat now because you've left the UFC. You have all these opportunities on the table, possibly Deontay Wilder, then it becomes Tyson Fury.

00:36:52.000 So, when do you know that that fight is actually going to take place?

00:36:56.000 Because I know there was a long...

00:36:58.000 June.

00:36:59.000 That was in June.

00:37:00.000 That was in June.

00:37:01.000 We locked that fight.

00:37:02.000 It was concluded.

00:37:03.000 Everything was said.

00:37:05.000 So for all those months from December to June, you're essentially just trying to find where you're going to land.

00:37:11.000 Yeah, but before that, I agree with the deal with the PFL. I think it was in March.

00:37:21.000 But I made the request.

00:37:23.000 I said, let's just figure out what will be my next boxing fight before we sign the deal.

00:37:31.000 So you haven't signed the deal with the PFL? I haven't signed the deal.

00:37:33.000 Is it possible?

00:37:34.000 Let me ask you this.

00:37:34.000 Okay.

00:37:35.000 Is it possible that you go and fight Tyson Fury and then the UFC comes back to you and says, listen, Let's make this right and let's fight Jon Jones.

00:37:45.000 Is that possible?

00:37:46.000 It's possible, but...

00:37:48.000 That's what I want.

00:37:48.000 No, it's possible.

00:37:49.000 That's what I want.

00:37:51.000 It's possible, but they have to go to the PFL now.

00:37:55.000 Oh, because does the PFL have a contract signed?

00:37:57.000 Yeah.

00:37:58.000 You did sign a contract.

00:37:59.000 I did sign.

00:38:00.000 I say in March, it wasn't signed.

00:38:02.000 Right.

00:38:03.000 I signed in May.

00:38:05.000 Do you think the PFL would allow that?

00:38:07.000 Oh, the PFL is down for that.

00:38:09.000 Really?

00:38:10.000 Yeah, he's down for that.

00:38:11.000 Wow.

00:38:13.000 The PFL is down for that.

00:38:15.000 So the PFL would let you fight in the UFC. But what happens if you beat Jon Jones and you become the UFC heavyweight champion again?

00:38:25.000 That's a problem.

00:38:26.000 I don't know.

00:38:30.000 Maybe he'll be a special fight, a special belt or something.

00:38:33.000 Yeah.

00:38:34.000 Maybe not like a UFC belt.

00:38:36.000 I don't know.

00:38:36.000 Yeah, the UFC probably would not be down for that.

00:38:39.000 Yeah.

00:38:39.000 Win the title and then go fight in the PFL. That would be a problem.

00:38:42.000 No, no.

00:38:43.000 Not the title.

00:38:44.000 But, you know, To be honest, I don't worry about the title.

00:38:47.000 The title is not what I worry about.

00:38:49.000 I worry about that fight, that challenge.

00:38:53.000 I wouldn't care if it was a fight without a title.

00:38:59.000 I don't need a UFC title.

00:39:03.000 Especially with that fight.

00:39:04.000 What difference does it make?

00:39:05.000 It's Jon Jones and you.

00:39:07.000 No, that fight is bigger than Tyro.

00:39:09.000 Yes, bigger than Tyro.

00:39:09.000 The fight is bigger than Tyro.

00:39:11.000 No doubt.

00:39:12.000 So deep inside me, I still have a little bit of hope even though I know It's going to be hard, but you never know.

00:39:22.000 Boy, that would be a big gamble for them.

00:39:24.000 Because if you win, then you're the champ, but you're signed with the PFL. Yeah.

00:39:31.000 Okay, so June, you get the Tyson Fury bout negotiated.

00:39:35.000 Did you get everything you want?

00:39:36.000 Was it easy?

00:39:39.000 Again, you don't walk in a room for a contract to get everything that you want.

00:39:43.000 And at that moment, I was just so happy to get that fight happen.

00:39:49.000 Because from that fight, a lot of things would be open.

00:39:54.000 That fight would open a lot of doors.

00:39:57.000 You know, sometimes, even in the negotiations, sometimes you have to see long-term what it comes with.

00:40:06.000 Now I get this fight.

00:40:08.000 I think it should have been the focus, right?

00:40:14.000 After this fight, imagine, hypothetically, I go out there and knock Tyson Fury out.

00:40:20.000 What do you think will happen for me now?

00:40:22.000 Where does that leave me?

00:40:24.000 If you knock Tyson Fury out, you're the biggest combat sports star in the world.

00:40:30.000 That's what I think.

00:40:31.000 So is that everything that you will want?

00:40:35.000 You gotta get the cash.

00:40:37.000 Then you'll get everything.

00:40:39.000 Well, if you knock Tyson Fury out, the real money's in a rematch.

00:40:43.000 Exactly.

00:40:43.000 That's the real money.

00:40:44.000 That's crazy money.

00:40:47.000 Are they giving you crazy money for the Tyson Fury fight?

00:40:50.000 Are they giving you crazy money for the Tyson Fury fight?

00:40:53.000 Yeah, they're giving me good money, and very great condition.

00:40:58.000 I like a lot of components, and again, I like a lot of components of this contract, which was the thing, the treatment that they were giving me, the access, how easy they make stuff for me.

00:41:16.000 It's going to be the first time that my family is going to attend to my fight, and I don't even have to think about that.

00:41:22.000 They're going to work on it.

00:41:23.000 They're going to figure out how to bring my mom, my sister, my brother out to Saudi to watch that fight.

00:41:29.000 Oh, okay.

00:41:29.000 So they're going to take care of everything.

00:41:31.000 We're going to take care.

00:41:32.000 The Saudis know how to throw that money around, boy. 1.00

00:41:34.000 And I think that's something that for me was very, very important.

00:41:40.000 I think, you know, I could have half more money, but it wouldn't make me more happier than stuff like that.

00:41:48.000 And, you know, you kind of like work with people that you feel like, okay, they are trying their best, their very best to make you feel comfortable, feel happy.

00:42:00.000 I think that's, it's also a partnership, you know?

00:42:04.000 It's not like one shot, okay, take everything that I can take and go.

00:42:08.000 How can we build something?

00:42:10.000 Like, is it like somebody that I can trust?

00:42:13.000 Can we build something for the future?

00:42:15.000 And then when you feel like, yes, You invest into that relationship.

00:42:21.000 So June, they negotiate the fight.

00:42:24.000 Is it 12 rounds?

00:42:26.000 10 rounds.

00:42:27.000 10 rounds.

00:42:29.000 And they've created a new belt.

00:42:31.000 And you're happy with the money.

00:42:34.000 You're happy with the conditions.

00:42:35.000 You're happy with everything.

00:42:37.000 So then in June is when you go hardcore boxing training.

00:42:41.000 When did you start hardcore boxing training?

00:42:44.000 I was training boxing already.

00:42:49.000 I was in a camp.

00:42:50.000 But you're recovering from your knee surgery, first of all, right?

00:42:53.000 Yes.

00:42:53.000 So you can't kick and you can't wrestle.

00:42:56.000 I can kick.

00:42:57.000 I can wrestle.

00:42:58.000 But you have to be careful.

00:42:59.000 I have to be careful.

00:43:01.000 How is the knee now?

00:43:03.000 100%?

00:43:03.000 I don't have to worry about kick, wrestling.

00:43:07.000 Right.

00:43:08.000 Just knee.

00:43:09.000 My knee is probably 90%.

00:43:12.000 I mean, when you get a knee surgery.

00:43:15.000 Did you get any stem cells or anything?

00:43:18.000 Not yet.

00:43:19.000 How long are you in town for?

00:43:20.000 I had a PRP. I'm leaving tonight.

00:43:25.000 You're leaving tonight?

00:43:25.000 Yeah.

00:43:26.000 There's a company in Austin, Ways to Well, that I wanted to hook you up with.

00:43:30.000 Ways to Well, yes.

00:43:31.000 I get in contact with them.

00:43:33.000 I get them to do my exam.

00:43:35.000 And I think Eric Nixik put me in contact with them.

00:43:41.000 With Brigham?

00:43:43.000 I can take care of that too.

00:43:46.000 About the same, sir, if we have the time.

00:43:49.000 You should do that.

00:43:50.000 I think I'm going to give you the shirt.

00:43:52.000 For sure.

00:43:54.000 It'll help you.

00:43:55.000 It's very important to take care of To maintain the vehicle.

00:44:02.000 Yes.

00:44:02.000 Obviously.

00:44:03.000 Yeah.

00:44:04.000 And what a vehicle it is.

00:44:06.000 Yeah.

00:44:07.000 Basically when you're going to put it in a big crash like this.

00:44:10.000 So, yeah, right?

00:44:13.000 That's a good way to put it. 0.62

00:44:14.000 Yeah, because Tyson Fury is a monster. 0.95

00:44:17.000 He's a monster. 0.99

00:44:17.000 I stand next to him and I'm like, damn, this guy is big. 0.99

00:44:21.000 He's big. 0.99

00:44:22.000 I'm like, you really need to go full force.

00:44:25.000 Yeah, he's a big fellow.

00:44:26.000 And he's very good.

00:44:27.000 Very skillful.

00:44:28.000 Oh, man.

00:44:29.000 You jump into the top of the heap, maybe ever.

00:44:31.000 And then I was there at the press conference next to him.

00:44:34.000 I'm like, yes, look my fat belly. 0.99

00:44:37.000 I'm a fat pig. 0.99

00:44:38.000 I'm this. 1.00

00:44:39.000 I'm like, don't you fool me.

00:44:41.000 I have seen you.

00:44:42.000 Yeah.

00:44:43.000 He tricks people with that belly.

00:44:44.000 I'm like, don't you fool me.

00:44:46.000 Don't you trick me, Tyson.

00:44:47.000 I've seen you box, and you doesn't box as if fat anything at all.

00:44:52.000 No, he doesn't. 0.99

00:44:56.000 He's an animal.

00:44:56.000 If you just focus on his body, then you'll be like, oh, easy job.

00:45:01.000 No, man.

00:45:02.000 When the guy's in the ring moving you, I'm like, okay, is it like something that they are remoting or something?

00:45:07.000 I'm like, no, don't you fool me.

00:45:10.000 He's very, very skillful.

00:45:12.000 Very skillful.

00:45:14.000 But, you know, you have probably the most sensational punching power I've ever seen in the heavyweight division in the UFC. It's you and Derrick Lewis.

00:45:24.000 You're the two biggest knockout artists ever.

00:45:26.000 Maybe, but again, I think in the heavyweight division, everybody can knock everybody out.

00:45:33.000 The problem is to connect.

00:45:36.000 That's the most problem, bro. 0.85

00:45:39.000 Everybody, hit somebody in the shin, it's going down.

00:45:43.000 How to connect?

00:45:44.000 The delivery system.

00:45:46.000 It's something that I heard once from Teddy Atlas, and it stuck on my mind, like the delivery system.

00:45:57.000 You can have the biggest missile, but if you can hit your target, it's useless.

00:46:05.000 So, when do you get involved with Mike Tyson?

00:46:08.000 When did that start happening?

00:46:10.000 In training?

00:46:12.000 Yes.

00:46:13.000 Because I've seen videos of you training with Tyson.

00:46:15.000 How much have you trained with him?

00:46:17.000 Not so much.

00:46:17.000 He comes time to time.

00:46:19.000 Not always.

00:46:19.000 He's not always with me.

00:46:21.000 But if you look like four years ago, exactly four years ago, and that's when Tyson and I, we started to hit each other on social media.

00:46:31.000 And four years ago was the first time that I met Mike Tyson.

00:46:35.000 I was on his podcast, The Hot Boxing.

00:46:38.000 And one request that I initiated at that time was like, whenever I fight Tyson Fury, would you be in my corner?

00:46:48.000 And he said yes.

00:46:49.000 That's even on my Instagram.

00:46:51.000 It's still on my Instagram.

00:46:53.000 The next day, I put that as a caption.

00:46:56.000 I asked him if he could be in my corner whenever I fight Tyson Fury.

00:47:01.000 And nobody believed that this could have happened.

00:47:03.000 Like, okay, cool.

00:47:05.000 Then what?

00:47:07.000 And when I get the fight, I'm like, bro, that thing is happening.

00:47:12.000 That thing is manifesting itself.

00:47:14.000 Wow.

00:47:15.000 And so Tyson agrees to be in your corner, and who are you training with mostly for boxing?

00:47:23.000 I'm training with Dewey.

00:47:26.000 Dewey Cooper.

00:47:27.000 Dewey Cooper, yeah.

00:47:29.000 I also get this guy from France named John Bumba, that I used to work with him, train my boxing with him.

00:47:38.000 He's a young, very young guy, you know.

00:47:42.000 But I like his style, the way that his approach and stuff, and I really have a good connection with him.

00:47:50.000 What's happened?

00:47:52.000 I reached out.

00:47:53.000 I mean, even before the fight, I was working with him, taking him in Cameroon, get some training already.

00:48:02.000 Then when the fight gets announced, I talk with him, then I brought him out.

00:48:06.000 So he's in Vegas with me.

00:48:08.000 And so, you started your journey in martial arts.

00:48:13.000 You initially wanted to be a boxer.

00:48:14.000 Yes.

00:48:15.000 And then when you went to an MMA gym, they convinced you to fight MMA. When I went to France.

00:48:19.000 Right.

00:48:20.000 Yeah.

00:48:20.000 No, he was even in a boxing gym that convinced me to be an MMA fighter.

00:48:24.000 Really?

00:48:25.000 A guy from a boxing gym named Didier Carmon.

00:48:27.000 The first boxing gym that I get into.

00:48:30.000 But he was also a martial artist himself.

00:48:33.000 And he said, bro, I think you have a very good potential.

00:48:40.000 I think your best outcome now regarding your situation, because I was still homeless at the time, I think your best outcome would be MMA. That's how I'm like, what's MMA? He started to explain to me, like, you know, I'm like, ah, okay, that sport that they do in the cage.

00:49:01.000 He said, yes.

00:49:01.000 I'm like, ah, I have seen it.

00:49:03.000 He said, if you train some takedown defense and jujitsu, what is jujitsu?

00:49:12.000 He started to explain.

00:49:13.000 I think you're going to be a UFC champion one day.

00:49:16.000 What is UFC? And how old were you when this was happening?

00:49:19.000 27. That was in 2013. It's so crazy.

00:49:23.000 June 2013. People don't understand that you started this journey as an MMA fighter so late in your life compared to most.

00:49:32.000 A lot of these guys, they're training when they're 14, 15 years old, they're in MMA gyms and have an amateur fight.

00:49:38.000 Yeah.

00:49:39.000 And I forced my way into MMA. And that's why, like, there was a lot of things that I didn't understand properly.

00:49:45.000 I didn't learn as an athlete growing up.

00:49:49.000 And until I get to a steep fight, the first steep fight.

00:49:53.000 Man, that steep fight taught me a lot about combat sport.

00:49:57.000 Yeah.

00:49:57.000 After that fight, I was at the press conference and telling people, like, I think I have learned more in this fight because here I've been, what, almost just four years?

00:50:09.000 Four years and a half since I've been doing, not even four years and a half since I've been doing MMA when I fought Stipe the first time.

00:50:16.000 Crazy.

00:50:16.000 Yeah.

00:50:17.000 And I said, I learned this night.

00:50:21.000 Tonight I learned more than I have learned in the past four years in this game.

00:50:26.000 And I think people didn't understand, but I meant it.

00:50:30.000 Well, you certainly showed it in the rematch.

00:50:33.000 You certainly showed it in the rematch.

00:50:35.000 And Daniel Cormier pointed it out.

00:50:37.000 He said, patient, Francis.

00:50:39.000 You were patient in the second fight.

00:50:41.000 You didn't just rush out and try to take him out in the first round.

00:50:45.000 Much more dangerous.

00:50:46.000 Yeah, because on my previous fight before Stipe, I wasn't rushing on anybody.

00:50:53.000 What about Rosenstreich?

00:50:54.000 You kind of rushed him.

00:50:55.000 That was after.

00:50:56.000 Yeah.

00:50:57.000 I mean, before the first fight.

00:50:59.000 I wasn't rushing off on anybody.

00:51:01.000 I was knocking people out without rushing.

00:51:04.000 The mistake, the thing that I did is like I get to the point that I really started to think about the knockout, which is something that I never thought about it.

00:51:12.000 It just happened.

00:51:13.000 Right.

00:51:13.000 Then I started to think about it, so that's where I rushed.

00:51:17.000 You were trying to make it happen.

00:51:18.000 I tried to make it happen, and obviously at that time there was a lot of pressure on me and everything.

00:51:24.000 So I was sure I have to give a result.

00:51:29.000 So that's why I was rushing.

00:51:31.000 So I understand that night.

00:51:33.000 I went back and watched that fight, and I saw me fight.

00:51:37.000 I'm like, who is that guy?

00:51:39.000 He just looked like me, but I don't recognize.

00:51:41.000 Why he's rushing?

00:51:42.000 Why he's doing this?

00:51:43.000 So, then I understand.

00:51:46.000 I'm like, okay.

00:51:48.000 Maybe you just have to go back to the previous way, the previous you, and then things will be fine.

00:51:55.000 Then I went back to the previous you.

00:51:56.000 In the rematch, not only were you the previous you, but you were a way better version of you.

00:52:01.000 You were very calculated, very technical.

00:52:04.000 It was four years.

00:52:06.000 What, three years after?

00:52:08.000 Yeah.

00:52:09.000 So, of course, I have learned.

00:52:12.000 I'm in the sport to learn.

00:52:13.000 I know that I have a deficiency, so I pay a lot of attention than those people that grew up as an athlete, you know, doing different sport.

00:52:24.000 I always take that very seriously, the fact that, I mean, maybe sometime my power helped me to get away with stuff, But I know that I have a deficiency, you know, as far as experience and everything, even techniques.

00:52:43.000 Because sometimes I hear people say, oh, yeah, he didn't train wrestling in a training camp.

00:52:49.000 I'm like, bro, come on.

00:52:50.000 You think two, three months wrestling in a training camp will out-wrestle somebody that's been wrestling his entire life?

00:52:58.000 No, you can't.

00:53:00.000 You can't just find a way to go around.

00:53:03.000 But, you know, so that's how I process things.

00:53:10.000 I think about the advantage.

00:53:11.000 I always think of myself as an underdog.

00:53:14.000 So what did you change in your training after the first Tipe fight?

00:53:18.000 Did you change anything?

00:53:20.000 First of all, I understand how to train properly.

00:53:24.000 I understand how to train properly.

00:53:26.000 And again, I just think about everything as a deficiency.

00:53:31.000 I used to think that sometimes I'm like, oh yes, he has a good striking, he's a boxer, he knocks people out.

00:53:37.000 I'm like, no, I have no good striking.

00:53:40.000 Everything has to...

00:53:43.000 Involved.

00:53:44.000 Whether it's my striking, my wrestling, my jiu-jitsu.

00:53:47.000 That's why people keep training.

00:53:49.000 The day that you think, oh, I'm good at this, that's the day that you start to go down.

00:53:54.000 Because you can't stay in the same place like this.

00:54:00.000 You're going to permanently try to go up.

00:54:03.000 And even if you're not going up, That's how you can maintain your position.

00:54:09.000 But if you stay comfortable with something, that's the day that you start to lose it.

00:54:15.000 So I changed everything.

00:54:17.000 I focused on everything like All the assets.

00:54:23.000 That fight really helped me a lot.

00:54:26.000 I think about my diet.

00:54:28.000 I think about the discipline and stuff.

00:54:31.000 I mean, usually I'm good with discipline, but I still think about everything, put everything in prospect.

00:54:40.000 Like, okay, is my diet okay?

00:54:43.000 By the way, after the Stipe fight, I decided to cut soda out for a couple of wine before.

00:54:50.000 And since then, I've never drank soda.

00:54:52.000 You've drank it a lot before?

00:54:54.000 Oh, a ton.

00:54:56.000 A ton.

00:54:57.000 Even in training camp?

00:54:58.000 A ton.

00:55:01.000 In training camp, I was eating croissants, everything.

00:55:04.000 I was like, no, I'm heavyweight.

00:55:05.000 I was just focusing about my weight and not about my condition and all those aspects.

00:55:13.000 I didn't know.

00:55:13.000 You know, the night before the steeper fight, I was in the foco de chow, eating outdoor steak.

00:55:20.000 That's good.

00:55:22.000 Really?

00:55:23.000 Yeah, that's good for you.

00:55:24.000 Before the fight?

00:55:24.000 Meat.

00:55:25.000 Oh, no.

00:55:26.000 It's not good at all.

00:55:27.000 Not good?

00:55:28.000 Not at all. 0.99

00:55:29.000 I was heavy as shit. 1.00

00:55:30.000 Oh, you ate too much. 1.00

00:55:32.000 Did you eat stuff with the meat?

00:55:34.000 Like potatoes and rice?

00:55:36.000 Of course.

00:55:37.000 Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

00:55:38.000 That's where it is.

00:55:40.000 The night before the fight, maybe two hours or maybe one hour before I worked in the arena, I was at Foco de Chao.

00:55:49.000 An hour before you went to the marina?

00:55:51.000 Yeah.

00:55:51.000 Wow.

00:55:52.000 No, in the arena.

00:55:53.000 Yeah.

00:55:53.000 Because I went to the arena like maybe two hours before the fight, but three hours is not enough to digest all those meats and stuff.

00:56:04.000 Yeah.

00:56:05.000 And so in that fight, you learn all the lessons and then you change your diet, you enhance your discipline and you keep working on all your skills.

00:56:16.000 Yeah.

00:56:17.000 Then, you know, how we were talking about patience.

00:56:21.000 That's how I walked into the Stipe fight, directly with fight.

00:56:26.000 Constantly telling myself, be patient.

00:56:28.000 And I was there just telling myself.

00:56:31.000 I think I wasn't even in that fight.

00:56:33.000 I was there, but I was still fighting Stipe.

00:56:36.000 I was like, no, be patient.

00:56:38.000 Be patient, be patient.

00:56:39.000 You were still thinking about getting tired in that first fight, getting taken down, getting controlled?

00:56:45.000 No, really.

00:56:45.000 I was just thinking about patience.

00:56:48.000 Patience.

00:56:49.000 Just patience.

00:56:49.000 But I overdue.

00:56:51.000 We overdue it.

00:56:52.000 I overdue it, and it was too much.

00:56:54.000 That's how it turned out.

00:56:56.000 But I was like, patient.

00:56:58.000 You get this.

00:56:59.000 You get this.

00:56:59.000 That's why, at the end of the fight, I'm like, is it over or is it over?

00:57:05.000 I was confused.

00:57:07.000 I didn't know that he was even the third round.

00:57:09.000 Really?

00:57:10.000 Oh, yeah.

00:57:11.000 I was really messed up mentally.

00:57:15.000 I didn't know.

00:57:16.000 I thought I still have a round.

00:57:18.000 So what was that feeling like?

00:57:20.000 And my corner was telling me, I mean, they was telling me everything's good.

00:57:23.000 Like, okay, I think you get one round.

00:57:25.000 The second round, maybe you get this.

00:57:28.000 I don't know.

00:57:30.000 And so I feel like everything was right.

00:57:33.000 So my mind was playing me really bad in that fight.

00:57:38.000 So what was it like when you went back and watched that fight?

00:57:42.000 I didn't watch.

00:57:44.000 You didn't watch it?

00:57:44.000 Yeah, I feel bad.

00:57:46.000 You know, I feel like I waste a bullet.

00:57:49.000 Mm.

00:57:50.000 An important bullet.

00:57:51.000 Yeah.

00:57:52.000 And then...

00:57:53.000 That sets you back.

00:57:54.000 Yeah.

00:57:55.000 I feel very bad.

00:57:56.000 And then the reaction about it, the way people react about it, you get to the point that I kind of tell myself, OK, screw this. 1.00

00:58:09.000 Fuck everything, man. 0.99

00:58:13.000 The reason why I get into combat sports, basically MMA, was because it was fun. 1.00

00:58:19.000 I was never going to do MMA. I just kept training like, oh, it's fun.

00:58:24.000 I like it.

00:58:24.000 Let's keep going.

00:58:26.000 Then I realized that that fun wasn't there anymore.

00:58:30.000 And that's why I was falling down.

00:58:32.000 Because I started focusing on what people think, people reaction, people feelings.

00:58:38.000 And then I forget the reason why I started the sport.

00:58:41.000 So now I get the second fight against Curtis played in China.

00:58:46.000 I'm like, okay, this might be the end.

00:58:48.000 I don't think if I lost this fight, it's going to be good for me.

00:58:52.000 But at least I earned it how I started.

00:58:57.000 Just by fun.

00:58:59.000 Just go there, enjoy yourself, have fun, and don't worry about what's next.

00:59:05.000 And then 45 seconds, the guy was down.

00:59:09.000 And then Ken Velasquez, 25 seconds, the guy was down.

00:59:12.000 I was just there to have fun.

00:59:15.000 Junior Dos Santos, the guy was down.

00:59:18.000 Seems like having fun.

00:59:20.000 Having fun is exactly why I'm doing this and it's why I'm good at it.

00:59:27.000 Let's just do it.

00:59:30.000 I try not to put pressure on me.

00:59:34.000 Every Friday, I'm like, I'm going to go there.

00:59:37.000 Do my best.

00:59:38.000 Make sure that everything that should have been done is done on my end.

00:59:44.000 And the rest, I don't control it.

00:59:45.000 Have you ever worked with a sports psychologist?

00:59:49.000 Man, I don't believe in that.

00:59:51.000 No?

00:59:52.000 No, I don't believe.

00:59:54.000 I think everything is in our mind.

00:59:57.000 You can go out there trying to find all those stuff, but you have it in your mind.

01:00:03.000 You can't speak to yourself.

01:00:05.000 You can't question to yourself.

01:00:08.000 I don't need a poor psychology to tell me why I'm doing this.

01:00:13.000 It's out of passion.

01:00:14.000 I do this because I love it.

01:00:16.000 It's not a job, you understand?

01:00:18.000 I question myself, like, why did I get here?

01:00:24.000 How come did I come from where I came from and get here?

01:00:29.000 Then I find all those reasons, and then therefore I put my staff together, right?

01:00:35.000 Maybe some people do.

01:00:37.000 Some people clearly need people to help them to control their self.

01:00:45.000 I see that in a lot of fighters.

01:00:47.000 Basically, they need a coach or somebody to tell them what to do.

01:00:52.000 They don't know.

01:00:53.000 To tell them what time to train.

01:00:56.000 You know you have a fight.

01:00:58.000 You schedule your training at this time.

01:01:01.000 You have this and this to work on.

01:01:03.000 You can schedule that and get there every day.

01:01:07.000 At the same time, do your thing, go home, get ready for another day.

01:01:12.000 But some people do need somebody to get them that.

01:01:16.000 So do you schedule all your training?

01:01:18.000 Yeah.

01:01:19.000 Everything?

01:01:20.000 I schedule everything.

01:01:21.000 Really?

01:01:21.000 Yeah.

01:01:22.000 And my team, I organize all my team, you know, mostly about people that I share the good energy about because, again, I don't believe in so many things.

01:01:33.000 I don't believe in, like...

01:01:35.000 Oh, this guy is a great trainer.

01:01:38.000 He can do this.

01:01:39.000 No, I believe that everything comes from a fighter and the energy that people around him can bring, can help him win.

01:01:47.000 So in my team, I favor people's energy.

01:01:52.000 People like the energy that they bring around.

01:01:56.000 I favor them and that's how I judge if somebody is best or not.

01:02:01.000 It's by his energy.

01:02:02.000 And that's how I get along with Pretty much everybody of my team.

01:02:09.000 I judge everybody based on this energy.

01:02:13.000 I'd rather have a good person next to me.

01:02:18.000 My team is great.

01:02:21.000 They are all great.

01:02:22.000 Everybody is very professional, committed.

01:02:27.000 If I feel like somebody has this energy and not even as great, I prefer that person than somebody that is a great trainer and don't bring that energy because the energy is very important.

01:02:45.000 You know, when you start to get tired, when you're in a tough situation, the voice that you can listen and trust is more important than the technique that you can learn.

01:02:55.000 You can know all the techniques in the world, and if you get there, your mind is not right. 0.99

01:02:59.000 You are not doing shit. 0.99

01:03:01.000 Yeah. 0.93

01:03:03.000 So the energy of the people you got, that's all down.

01:03:06.000 You got a great trainer, Dewey Cooper.

01:03:07.000 He's fantastic.

01:03:09.000 I still get Dewey Cooper.

01:03:12.000 Even Eric...

01:03:13.000 Eric Nixick.

01:03:14.000 Eric Nixick.

01:03:15.000 Amazing.

01:03:16.000 We're still here.

01:03:17.000 Because I remember even how we get together, he wasn't most like a coach.

01:03:23.000 I was in Fighting Junior Dos Santos and I have only Dewey Cooper or...

01:03:29.000 With Markel on my team.

01:03:32.000 And I reach out, I ask Markel, like, we should bring somebody in the corner or something.

01:03:37.000 And he talk about Eric.

01:03:39.000 And I'm like, I always meet Eric around and he's nice.

01:03:42.000 And I'm like, yes, let's try him.

01:03:45.000 And then we get to the locker.

01:03:47.000 Suddenly, I feel the energy was great.

01:03:50.000 You know, I'm like, man, this is good.

01:03:52.000 I like this vibe in my team.

01:03:56.000 That, for me, is enough.

01:03:59.000 That's why sometimes I understand.

01:04:01.000 Once I saw Mike Perry, he went to a fight with only his wife in his corner. 0.99

01:04:06.000 And then people were criticizing him.

01:04:08.000 I'm like, I understand him.

01:04:11.000 He's doing the right thing.

01:04:12.000 He understands how the games work.

01:04:14.000 He just wants a voice that can speak to him when he's tired, somebody that he trusts, and all those stuff, and everything.

01:04:21.000 He already knows how to fight.

01:04:22.000 Yeah.

01:04:23.000 He knows how to fight.

01:04:24.000 Yeah.

01:04:24.000 Because nobody is going to raise your hand and punch on somebody's head.

01:04:28.000 Right.

01:04:28.000 Or like nobody is going to dodge a punch for you.

01:04:32.000 Nobody is going to say, oh, knock him out now.

01:04:34.000 You know?

01:04:35.000 Right.

01:04:35.000 It's just, it's fighting game.

01:04:38.000 It's mental.

01:04:39.000 More mental and improvisation.

01:04:42.000 So you schedule everything?

01:04:44.000 You schedule your strength and conditioning?

01:04:45.000 You schedule your sparring?

01:04:47.000 You schedule everything?

01:04:48.000 You just do it all based on how you feel and what you need to get done?

01:04:53.000 No, like, I schedule, I mean, I get a strength and conditioning, for example, for this camp, I get a trip.

01:05:01.000 He's out here with me.

01:05:03.000 So, we talk about the goal.

01:05:06.000 What is the goal?

01:05:07.000 What is the deficiency?

01:05:08.000 What do we want?

01:05:10.000 Where do we want to get by the fight?

01:05:13.000 We are 12 weeks out.

01:05:15.000 Okay, what is what we want to work on?

01:05:17.000 And what would be the good space?

01:05:20.000 Then we get that schedule.

01:05:23.000 Then with the boxing team, we speak around.

01:05:26.000 But I always try to get my team together so sometimes they can just work together.

01:05:32.000 They don't always need to come to me on staff.

01:05:36.000 My team can communicate together also on my schedule.

01:05:43.000 So when you train, you do strength and conditioning, are you using a heart rate monitor?

01:05:48.000 Are you paying attention to your resting heart rate?

01:05:51.000 What it's like when you wake up?

01:05:53.000 Your heart rate variability?

01:05:54.000 Do you get involved in any of those things?

01:05:57.000 Sometimes, not always.

01:05:59.000 Sometimes I even do the test to see where I am at.

01:06:03.000 VO2 max?

01:06:04.000 Yeah.

01:06:05.000 Even the VO2 max.

01:06:10.000 We focus on, I think, the most important thing for me right now, my injuries.

01:06:19.000 It's all about my injuries.

01:06:21.000 Do you have other injuries other than your knee?

01:06:25.000 Injury, no.

01:06:26.000 I mean, you get sore.

01:06:29.000 If you get to a training camp to the end without pain somewhere, then you better worry.

01:06:37.000 You probably didn't do enough.

01:06:38.000 Yeah, you probably didn't do it right.

01:06:40.000 So that's the thing.

01:06:43.000 That's the reality of the sport.

01:06:45.000 You can train hard for three months and feel great every day and don't feel like something's wrong.

01:06:53.000 No, that's mean.

01:06:55.000 You're not doing something right.

01:06:56.000 Is it easier to train for boxing because you don't have to do the wrestling?

01:07:01.000 You don't have to do the kicking?

01:07:02.000 Is it like less likely that you get injured?

01:07:06.000 Sometimes you think so, but when you get there, it's different.

01:07:10.000 You know, like in the first two weeks, it wasn't even a training camp, it was a pre-camp.

01:07:18.000 My first two weeks in boxing, straight boxing, I felt that different.

01:07:24.000 Of course, you get excited because you're not going to kick or take down or this, it's just boxing.

01:07:31.000 Oh, you're not going to, you don't risk injury for your knee and that, because now I always think about my knee.

01:07:39.000 Then you get there, you start to hit, mid, hit part, do all those stuff, always your hands up and then your shoulders start to hurt.

01:07:49.000 Then you throw more punch in two weeks than you have ever thrown in the training camp, in the two-month, two-three-month training camp.

01:07:56.000 Then I'm like, ah, there is a difference.

01:07:59.000 You know, your shoulder feels different.

01:08:01.000 It's not the same thing.

01:08:03.000 In MMA, you throw one-two kick, one-two-three kick, one takedown, daily boxing, wrestling, cage wrestling, all those stuff.

01:08:12.000 Now, in boxing, Your hands have to go all the time.

01:08:16.000 And when he's not going, he has to be on your face, protecting your face.

01:08:21.000 Otherwise, you're going to hit that punch clearly.

01:08:24.000 Yeah.

01:08:25.000 So when you prepare for a fight like this, you've never had a big professional boxing fight before.

01:08:33.000 And this is the biggest of all time.

01:08:35.000 I mean, you're literally fighting the greatest heavyweight of all time.

01:08:38.000 Yeah.

01:08:39.000 How do you know when to peak?

01:08:41.000 How do you know when you're ready?

01:08:43.000 Because you haven't done this kind of training before.

01:08:48.000 You will never be ready.

01:08:50.000 Even at the fight night, you will always think like, oh, if I have this, maybe I should have done this instead.

01:08:57.000 Maybe this would have helped me.

01:09:00.000 When is the go time you have to go?

01:09:02.000 So you just have to make sure to get there in your best.

01:09:07.000 The best you can do.

01:09:08.000 The best you can do without burnout because there's also a balance in between because if you overdo, then you burn out by the time you get to a fight.

01:09:17.000 That's why I was asking about heart rate monitors and checking your resting heart rate and heart rate variability because one of the best ways to find out if you are overtrained is to check your resting heart rate when you wake up first thing in the morning.

01:09:29.000 And if it's up 8 beats a minute, 10 beats a minute, most likely you went too hard.

01:09:34.000 And then they'd suggest like an active recovery day, a lighter training day where you're still moving, you're still working on technique, but you're not pushing.

01:09:43.000 You're not really pushing.

01:09:45.000 And even when your heart rate monitor indicates that, I used to use the Aura Watch, and it almost indicates how you feel.

01:09:56.000 You feel it.

01:09:58.000 And then when you have a good team, they can also measure the mass of your training.

01:10:06.000 And they can also walk around it.

01:10:09.000 They know, okay.

01:10:10.000 Monday and Tuesday, we went hard on this.

01:10:13.000 Wednesday has to be slow, and this, you know, maybe work on technique, or like on the strength, on this and that, all those aspects.

01:10:22.000 And that's why a team is very good about, because you can, like, by yourself, think about everything.

01:10:30.000 No, you need other people.

01:10:32.000 You need other people to help you because things get so big.

01:10:38.000 You need other people to help you and everybody's kind of like he has his own department to worry about.

01:10:47.000 So when you're training, how much sparring are you doing?

01:10:50.000 How many days a week?

01:10:54.000 Three or two, sometimes.

01:10:56.000 It depends, again, how you feel and how the recovery been, how was the sparring.

01:11:02.000 You know, sometimes you get sparring and you feel like, yeah, even though you did the amount of round that you're supposed to do, but it wasn't that intense and this, then the next day, no, maybe you keep, you push again.

01:11:20.000 You know, and sometimes you just go to a sparring and that one is hard.

01:11:25.000 The guy gives you a hard time.

01:11:27.000 You push.

01:11:27.000 The pace is high.

01:11:29.000 And then next day, maybe you need to recovery.

01:11:34.000 Not like recovery, but slow it down.

01:11:36.000 Give your shoulder some rest because you always end up on maybe heavy backs.

01:11:42.000 Like, it's all about that balance.

01:11:44.000 But it's like two, three a week.

01:11:47.000 And are you sparring with any world-class heavyweights?

01:11:53.000 World-class, sofa, no.

01:11:56.000 The only guy that I used to spar with, which is a world-class heavyweight, is Carlos Takam.

01:12:02.000 And he's now just coming in the training camp because he's also going to fight on the card.

01:12:10.000 Yeah, which is a world-class.

01:12:12.000 And we're going to get...

01:12:14.000 We were talking about some guy that we were bringing, like, experienced fighters, boxer, to spar.

01:12:22.000 What is it like for you to spar boxers and not be able to kick, not be able to take them down? 0.97

01:12:29.000 Does it create any adjustment for you?

01:12:32.000 I wasn't an expert of kicking either way.

01:12:35.000 But you kick hard.

01:12:37.000 Again, I wasn't an expert of kicking and I wasn't an expert of taking down.

01:12:43.000 But you did defend your heavyweight title, a lot of it with wrestling, because of your knee.

01:12:48.000 Yeah, because that was the only option that I had.

01:12:51.000 I wasn't comfortable moving.

01:12:55.000 We should tell people, you went into that fight to defend your heavyweight title with torn knee ligaments. 0.98

01:13:03.000 Your knee was fucked up going into that fight. 0.99

01:13:05.000 ACA, MCA. That's crazy. 1.00

01:13:08.000 Meniscus.

01:13:09.000 And you're fighting Cyril Ghosn, who's the most agile, light-footed heavyweight in the division.

01:13:14.000 He moves everywhere.

01:13:16.000 I'm like, okay, I need to figure a way.

01:13:19.000 Nobody moves like that guy.

01:13:20.000 Yeah.

01:13:20.000 But one thing that helped me into that fight a lot, I believe in myself.

01:13:26.000 I know that I'm going to get him.

01:13:28.000 I wasn't looking for a knockout. 1.00

01:13:31.000 Once again, I wasn't looking for a knockout, but I know that I'm going to have my opportunity at some moment in the fight.

01:13:37.000 That's where, like, the first two rounds, I was a little, like, worried about how to move and this and that.

01:13:46.000 Like, oh, my knee.

01:13:47.000 Oh, this, you know.

01:13:48.000 But I was still confident.

01:13:51.000 And after the first two rounds, I'm like, man, I'm losing.

01:13:55.000 It can't end like this.

01:13:57.000 No, not like this.

01:13:59.000 We need to do something.

01:14:01.000 Switch it up.

01:14:02.000 Switch it up, man.

01:14:04.000 Yeah.

01:14:05.000 Was that a satisfying victory for you, though, knowing that you could beat one of the best heavyweights in the world with only one leg?

01:14:15.000 Satisfying?

01:14:16.000 Yes, by far the best.

01:14:18.000 Because it wasn't one fight at that night.

01:14:22.000 That night, I was fighting like four.

01:14:25.000 I was fighting my demons, my needs, everything.

01:14:31.000 The contract.

01:14:32.000 I was fighting the contract.

01:14:33.000 I was fighting the narrative.

01:14:35.000 I was fighting everything that can go wrong.

01:14:39.000 And I couldn't strip this fight better than this.

01:14:42.000 If you had asked me, like, how would you like to win?

01:14:45.000 I would say knockout, obviously, which is the easiest way.

01:14:48.000 But everybody predicted me to be like, okay, he has a chance in the first round to knock Siri out.

01:14:55.000 After that, his power is going down.

01:14:57.000 Then his cardio is going down.

01:14:58.000 He has nothing.

01:15:00.000 It was the completely opposite way.

01:15:03.000 They say, oh, Sirigan has a cardio after two rounds, after a fight.

01:15:07.000 He can fight two fights a night.

01:15:08.000 I'm like, bro, come on.

01:15:10.000 Depends.

01:15:11.000 You know, at the end of the fight, I'm like, I'm not sure that he's ready to fight another fight, to take another fight on tonight.

01:15:21.000 Unlike what they predicted, I lost the first round and I started to win from the third round, which is like the contrary of what they predicted. 0.97

01:15:31.000 But nobody knew that your knee was that fucked up either, though. 0.83

01:15:35.000 The UFC knew it was injured. 0.97

01:15:37.000 They let you wrap it, right?

01:15:39.000 No, no, they know everything.

01:15:40.000 They knew everything?

01:15:42.000 When I did the MRI, he went to Dr. Davison and then when he was explaining it to me, he said, only four people know about this by now.

01:15:54.000 Dana, Hunter, you and I. That's how he was explaining it.

01:15:59.000 Did you consider pulling out of the fight?

01:16:04.000 I thought, yeah.

01:16:06.000 You know, in the perfect scenario, I would have pulled out a fight.

01:16:10.000 But I didn't want to give them an opportunity.

01:16:13.000 Another extension.

01:16:15.000 It wasn't about the extinction.

01:16:17.000 It was just to bury me.

01:16:19.000 I don't want to give the opportunity to bury me.

01:16:22.000 You know how in this world they say, okay, I'm going to die with my soul in my hand?

01:16:30.000 It was like, okay, I'm dying with my soul in my hand.

01:16:36.000 That's a lot of pressure.

01:16:38.000 Yeah.

01:16:39.000 But when I heard about, when they explained to me what was going on in my knee, I was very worried.

01:16:50.000 Then for somehow I call...

01:16:54.000 I called Camaro or he called me.

01:16:57.000 Anyway, we were in the phone and we were talking and he explained to me like what he had and this.

01:17:05.000 And I remember once I saw him in Vegas when he fought.

01:17:08.000 I think it was Kobe Carvington the first time.

01:17:12.000 And the guy was messed up, man.

01:17:14.000 He was working like this in the five weeks, getting caught.

01:17:18.000 He's on shot here and there. 0.99

01:17:20.000 I'm like, damn, this guy is going to fight. 0.99

01:17:23.000 Maybe it was Tyron Woodland. 0.99

01:17:26.000 He said, so this guy is going to fight on Saturday?

01:17:30.000 I was so worried.

01:17:32.000 I feel bad about it.

01:17:35.000 Man, at that night, he was sharp.

01:17:39.000 This is the guy that I saw him on Wednesday.

01:17:42.000 He was barely able to work.

01:17:44.000 He was sharp.

01:17:46.000 And I know exactly what was wrong with him.

01:17:49.000 So that kind of like helped me to believe that, man, when comes the moment, you know, fighting, your fighting instinct will take off.

01:17:58.000 Kamaru is so strong mentally.

01:18:00.000 Oh, man.

01:18:00.000 People knew how bad his knees are.

01:18:03.000 His knees are so bad.

01:18:04.000 He has to go backwards downstairs sometimes.

01:18:08.000 Sometimes, yeah.

01:18:09.000 And then you'll be like, oh, his hips, this. 0.87

01:18:13.000 I'm like, bro, you can't pull out the fight.

01:18:16.000 No.

01:18:17.000 He's going to fight.

01:18:19.000 And then he show up to the fight.

01:18:20.000 Looks perfect.

01:18:21.000 Looks perfect.

01:18:22.000 I'm like, there's no way that he's...

01:18:24.000 So that's kind of inspiring me to feel better about myself.

01:18:30.000 I'm like, man, I can't do this.

01:18:33.000 It's not over yet.

01:18:34.000 I still have something.

01:18:36.000 Left.

01:18:37.000 So I keep...

01:18:38.000 Even though I couldn't train anymore, I couldn't rest, so I couldn't do anything.

01:18:42.000 And I was three weeks away from...

01:18:44.000 Three weeks and a half away from the fight.

01:18:46.000 So I started to focus on my air bike, you know...

01:18:51.000 Cardio.

01:18:52.000 Cardio.

01:18:53.000 Up walk, you know, body walk.

01:18:55.000 But it wasn't...

01:18:57.000 It wasn't easy.

01:18:58.000 But I think my air bike hurt me a lot.

01:19:00.000 Because from not being trained for over three weeks before the fight and get there like that...

01:19:06.000 Wasn't too bad. 1.00

01:19:07.000 That airbag's a motherfucker. 1.00

01:19:09.000 The air bike. 1.00

01:19:09.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:19:10.000 Air salt.

01:19:11.000 I used the Echo bike.

01:19:13.000 The Rogue Echo bike.

01:19:14.000 I always use the Assault.

01:19:16.000 I like the Assault one.

01:19:17.000 I like the grind.

01:19:20.000 You feel the moisture.

01:19:22.000 You feel the moisture like you're pushing through your knee.

01:19:25.000 Such a good workout.

01:19:27.000 I have it in my living room.

01:19:29.000 I sit in the room and put the TV in front and I will ride that thing for an hour to work on my cardio.

01:19:38.000 It's amazing for cardio.

01:19:39.000 It's my favorite machine.

01:19:40.000 And for heavyweight, it's not great for you being out there running in the concrete or putting all those weight on your joint.

01:19:49.000 With the airbag, you do the same thing without putting all those stress into your joint.

01:19:56.000 I'm like, man, I think this is probably the best device for me.

01:20:01.000 Yeah.

01:20:01.000 No, it's the best device for a lot of people.

01:20:04.000 It's a phenomenal piece of equipment.

01:20:06.000 So, what else were you doing for recovery?

01:20:09.000 Do you get massages?

01:20:10.000 Do you use the sauna?

01:20:12.000 Do you use the cold plunge?

01:20:13.000 What else do you do?

01:20:14.000 Physical therapy.

01:20:15.000 I just get a cold plunge from Plunge.

01:20:19.000 And then I set that up.

01:20:22.000 I was able to make it work this week.

01:20:25.000 I use that.

01:20:26.000 I do the hyperbaric.

01:20:29.000 Oh, nice.

01:20:30.000 Yeah, I do the hyperbaric chamber.

01:20:32.000 I have a friend in Vegas who has a Hyperbaric store.

01:20:41.000 She's even partnered with Michelle Tate and Janelle.

01:20:45.000 They have a Disney Moon Hyperbaric.

01:20:49.000 So I go there sometimes.

01:20:50.000 They have this hardcore one.

01:20:52.000 I used to get Someone in my house, but he will be the soft one.

01:20:57.000 Yeah, it's not as good.

01:20:59.000 No, you want a real one.

01:21:00.000 I think that can only go to 1.3 or something.

01:21:03.000 Yeah, you want two.

01:21:04.000 Yeah.

01:21:05.000 With the hard one, you go to two.

01:21:07.000 We should explain.

01:21:07.000 That means two environments, twice the normal oxygen environment.

01:21:13.000 Yeah, so I go there time to time, dive into that thing.

01:21:19.000 Yeah, that's phenomenal for recovery.

01:21:21.000 That's great.

01:21:22.000 So you're using all most sophisticated materials and equipment.

01:21:26.000 What about supplements?

01:21:27.000 Do you have someone who monitors your supplements and your nutrition?

01:21:31.000 I try.

01:21:31.000 Yes, for nutrition, always.

01:21:34.000 When I have a fight, I have a chef.

01:21:36.000 Yes, I have a chef.

01:21:37.000 I always do that when I have a fight.

01:21:41.000 But for supplements, I don't know.

01:21:43.000 I'm never able to get along with supplements.

01:21:48.000 I don't know.

01:21:51.000 Take them, don't take them, forget to take them.

01:21:53.000 Yeah, take them, don't take them.

01:21:54.000 I used to be at the PI and then Glenn, they would always like get those back ready for me and with all the vitamins and how to take it every day.

01:22:06.000 And I would take it like two, three, four days and after.

01:22:11.000 Just quit?

01:22:11.000 Yeah.

01:22:12.000 Did you notice a difference?

01:22:13.000 Taking it or not taking it?

01:22:14.000 I don't know.

01:22:15.000 It's all hard, right?

01:22:17.000 I don't know.

01:22:17.000 It's really hard.

01:22:20.000 One thing that you don't have to think about with this fight is your weight.

01:22:23.000 Like, you don't have to make the 265 pound weight limit.

01:22:27.000 What are you walking around at?

01:22:29.000 It's still different because the weight limit, even when I fight MMA, sometimes I get there at 260, below 260. It's not because I'm cutting weight.

01:22:41.000 You're not thinking about it.

01:22:42.000 Yeah, I'm not thinking about it.

01:22:44.000 I mean, I do work in order to get my weight down, but I don't cut weight.

01:22:48.000 I don't have a big process of...

01:22:51.000 Right.

01:22:52.000 Diet, you know, to cut weight.

01:22:53.000 Dehydration.

01:22:54.000 No, I just train properly and eat properly with the chef and sometimes by myself to get there.

01:23:00.000 But even now, I still have to think about it because based on the game plan, you know, I don't want to have an extra 10 pound, unnecessary 10 pound on me.

01:23:12.000 Right.

01:23:12.000 But at the same time, I don't also want to lose a strain because, as I said, this guy is a big dude.

01:23:20.000 He has a skill to lean on people, weigh them down, stuff like that.

01:23:28.000 I think there's going to be a little bit of a wrestling there.

01:23:33.000 I need to get my strength right.

01:23:34.000 So there has to be a balance.

01:23:39.000 I walk around like 275, 280. My normal weight.

01:23:44.000 Walk around weight.

01:23:46.000 But I think might get in the fight at 265. I don't know.

01:23:52.000 It depends on how we decide this to go.

01:23:57.000 So without giving away too much of your strategy, How do you envision this fight taking place?

01:24:05.000 You've never boxed a heavyweight like him before.

01:24:08.000 You obviously have tremendous skills and power.

01:24:12.000 How do you envision this fight taking place?

01:24:15.000 Well, it's very hard to envision.

01:24:18.000 You know, sometimes I just visualize the fight, me there in the ring.

01:24:24.000 Suppose I'm going to be the blue corner, being there waiting for him to get in the ring.

01:24:30.000 He knows all the sides of the ring.

01:24:33.000 He's been there.

01:24:34.000 He knows all the corners, how to move, how to cut, everything.

01:24:38.000 And I'm going to be there to figure out how to cut.

01:24:45.000 The ring, you know, it's really hard.

01:24:48.000 I think I'm just going to focus on, like, being composed.

01:24:53.000 You know, don't think about too much stuff.

01:24:56.000 And again, I would like the knockout.

01:24:59.000 But, you know, Tyson is very slicky.

01:25:03.000 And you can go like you want to knock him out.

01:25:07.000 So I'm preparing in the way that this fight can go all the way to 10th round.

01:25:14.000 Which is a disadvantage for me.

01:25:18.000 I never fight boxing at that level.

01:25:22.000 So managing my energy, how I'm going to be feeling with all the pressure and the adrenaline, how are they going to be in the 10 rounds?

01:25:34.000 So how can I maximize it the most?

01:25:40.000 It's about that.

01:25:42.000 I visualise it a lot.

01:25:44.000 I think about it, trying to be there that night, waiting for him, see him come, do his show, get there, trying to do his slick stuff, weigh me down, dirty boxing, come close, trying to lean on my head, because he's taller than me!

01:26:09.000 But I think I'm going to handle that daily boxing properly.

01:26:18.000 Because usually, boxing guys, I have seen a lot in sparring, and since everybody wants to do the same thing, like Tyson, trying to prepare you for that, There are still those wrestling tricks that you can get into.

01:26:33.000 Sometimes I go under the shoulder and step in your back, which is something that boxers don't do. 1.00

01:26:42.000 They don't know.

01:26:44.000 I don't have to worry about that still.

01:26:48.000 Are you going to have, like, I know that when Sugar Ray Leonard made his comeback, one of the things that he did was he had actual fights.

01:26:56.000 Like, to prepare himself so he didn't have any ring rust, he would have actual fights in the gym with, like, regulation-sized gloves, no headgear, 10 rounds, 12 rounds, whatever it was, he would have actual fights.

01:27:10.000 I think we had that a lot of time.

01:27:12.000 I mean, we fight MMA with four-ounce gloves, right?

01:27:16.000 And we don't fight with headgear, with kicks and everything.

01:27:22.000 So I'm not worried about that.

01:27:25.000 And we used to spar, when you're a MMA fighter, they don't spar boxing with the protection.

01:27:31.000 With the headgear and stuff.

01:27:33.000 They just go in the gym.

01:27:35.000 They don't worry the size of their gloves.

01:27:37.000 But boxing guys, they come to the gym, everything is checked.

01:27:42.000 Like, what's the size of the gloves?

01:27:44.000 The check, the headgears, the this, the cup, and all the stuff.

01:27:50.000 I mean, now I do that to protect myself.

01:27:52.000 I have a fight in less than six weeks, so I take all those precautions, but I don't think I'm going to do that by now.

01:28:02.000 If I was six months out, yes, I can do something like that, but now I have no interest in doing that.

01:28:08.000 I know I can deal with that.

01:28:10.000 I have got hit with four-ounce gloves, you know, in the fight.

01:28:15.000 I've been there.

01:28:17.000 I haven't done boxing yet, but I've been in fighting more than once.

01:28:21.000 So I'm going to be okay.

01:28:23.000 And one thing that we are going to talk about is Tyson gloves.

01:28:32.000 He's...

01:28:33.000 He's very tricky with his gloves.

01:28:36.000 I think he's cheating.

01:28:37.000 Is he cheating?

01:28:38.000 Yeah.

01:28:38.000 I've heard a lot of complaints about his gloves, which is like his glove has no protection.

01:28:44.000 Where have you heard this from?

01:28:46.000 Even when he fought Deontay Wilder, he complained about that.

01:28:50.000 Yeah, but did you ever look into that?

01:28:52.000 Direct Tezora complained about that.

01:28:54.000 And that's what we are talking about the team.

01:28:57.000 And then I'm like, oh, there's the UK commission, the gloves.

01:29:00.000 I'm like, bro, we're going to get there.

01:29:03.000 We need every glove to be checked.

01:29:06.000 You don't tell me about this commission.

01:29:08.000 All the gloves get to be checked.

01:29:10.000 I don't want...

01:29:11.000 If you want us to fight bare hands, bare knickers, let's go bare knickers. 1.00

01:29:17.000 But don't give me 10-ounce gloves and wear 8-ounce or 6-ounce gloves because he has no protection.

01:29:24.000 You really think he's doing that?

01:29:26.000 I think so.

01:29:27.000 I mean, I have heard.

01:29:29.000 I've seen the Deontay Wilder videos, but they're not convincing.

01:29:33.000 Here's why.

01:29:34.000 They're showing those videos in slow motion.

01:29:37.000 And in slow motion, it looks like his glove is flopping all over the place.

01:29:41.000 But that's just because it's in slow motion.

01:29:43.000 When you watch him boxing, he's doing this.

01:29:46.000 He flicks, flicks, flicks.

01:29:48.000 He shows you it.

01:29:49.000 Pop! 0.87

01:29:49.000 Then he drops a big punch in. 0.87

01:29:51.000 But...

01:29:51.000 So, in slow motion, it looks like it's all floppy, like it's not connected, and you think that the gloves are really, like, just flopping around, and where his knuckles are is where the wrap is.

01:30:01.000 But that's not the case, because if you look at the length of his arm, none of that makes sense.

01:30:05.000 Yeah, but he's opening complaints about his glove.

01:30:07.000 Yeah, I don't know if they're right.

01:30:09.000 I mean, they might not be.

01:30:11.000 I don't know if they're right.

01:30:12.000 We have to check that.

01:30:14.000 Yeah, well, I'm sure.

01:30:16.000 I think it's legit.

01:30:17.000 I think he's legit.

01:30:18.000 I just think he's that good.

01:30:19.000 No, he's good.

01:30:20.000 He's good.

01:30:21.000 And his style of, like, keeping that hand loose and flicking.

01:30:25.000 So sometimes that wrist opens way up.

01:30:27.000 And if you look at it in slow motion, people are like, look, his glove's not even attached.

01:30:32.000 His glove's attached. 0.99

01:30:33.000 You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. 1.00

01:30:34.000 Because after he does this, he does this. 1.00

01:30:37.000 There's no way he's doing this if his glove's not attached.

01:30:40.000 It's attached.

01:30:41.000 He just loosens his hands, because a lot of his punches, he's just showing you things.

01:30:46.000 He's showing you things.

01:30:47.000 Bang! 1.00

01:30:47.000 He's showing you this, and then he's doing all this. 1.00

01:30:49.000 So a lot of it is loose, and he's just popping you at that, like a whip, you know?

01:30:54.000 Well, I think we have nothing to lose by double-checking.

01:30:58.000 Nothing to lose by double-checking, that's true.

01:31:00.000 Yeah, because there's been more than once that people talk about his gloves.

01:31:03.000 Right, but nobody needs them.

01:31:04.000 And even his opening.

01:31:05.000 Even his opening.

01:31:06.000 Yeah, I'm sure they talk about it. 1.00

01:31:08.000 He kicks their ass. 1.00

01:31:09.000 People looking for reasons. 1.00

01:31:11.000 Deontay Wilder thought he got poisoned.

01:31:14.000 He thought a lot of things.

01:31:16.000 But that's because the guy's that good. 0.99

01:31:19.000 He's fucking good, man. 0.98

01:31:21.000 And I just think that style, when you look at it in slow motion, it might look like his gloves are not attached, but they are most certainly attached. 0.98

01:31:28.000 But in the boxing world?

01:31:29.000 You have to worry about everything.

01:31:31.000 It's a dirty world.

01:31:32.000 You have to worry about everything.

01:31:34.000 If somebody says something in the boxing, you better just double check.

01:31:39.000 Double check.

01:31:40.000 What has Tyson brought to the table?

01:31:43.000 Training with Mike Tyson.

01:31:44.000 What did he help you with?

01:31:47.000 What kind of strategies did he give you?

01:31:49.000 What kind of thought process?

01:31:50.000 What is his approach to you fighting Tyson Fury?

01:31:55.000 I mean, asking that question makes me feel like you don't really understand.

01:32:02.000 Like, I grew up idolizing Mike Tyson.

01:32:05.000 Yes.

01:32:06.000 Right?

01:32:06.000 Everybody did.

01:32:08.000 And then, as having a dream to become a world-class boxer, my first boxing match, Mike Tyson is in the gym, like, oh no, this, that, that.

01:32:20.000 I'm like, come on a moment.

01:32:22.000 Like, this is real.

01:32:24.000 This is how, this is where I get.

01:32:26.000 So it's real.

01:32:27.000 This is legit.

01:32:27.000 Your first boxing match.

01:32:29.000 Mike Tyson's in your corner. 0.73

01:32:30.000 Crazy.

01:32:31.000 I kept Mike Tyson's here.

01:32:32.000 Like...

01:32:33.000 Even mentally, just thinking like that.

01:32:35.000 Like hearing him cheer you on.

01:32:37.000 Sometimes I'm like, yes, it's him, right?

01:32:40.000 I'm not tripping.

01:32:43.000 You have to check because it's really Mike Tyson.

01:32:45.000 I'm like, okay, this thing is serious.

01:32:47.000 And not only, he's there and he believes that you can be this guy.

01:32:53.000 That's how it is.

01:32:55.000 So, like, he put his faith on you, a guy that have done everything in boxing that is there.

01:33:02.000 I'm like, so he see me as somebody that can do this.

01:33:07.000 Mm.

01:33:08.000 We were talking about mental stuff.

01:33:12.000 These are some mental stuff that are heavy.

01:33:16.000 Not to mention his technique.

01:33:18.000 Mike Tyson has a unique style.

01:33:21.000 I wish I had his style, but I'm not going to expect to copy his style because it's unique to him.

01:33:31.000 Well, he's also built very differently.

01:33:32.000 He's built different.

01:33:33.000 He was always the shortest guy in the room.

01:33:36.000 So with his opening, which is the case in this fight, I'm the shortest, his technique, if I can get...

01:33:43.000 And then one thing that people always see is how strong he was.

01:33:48.000 He was knocking people out.

01:33:49.000 And nobody was...

01:33:51.000 Impressed of how he was able to move from left to right and this, how this footwork and all those stuff, how he was that short and was able to get into the distance when he wanted to hit and all those stuff, right?

01:34:07.000 Which is something that's very interesting.

01:34:10.000 With Mike Tyson, one best thing that you can get from Mike Tyson is the footwork.

01:34:16.000 Footwork.

01:34:17.000 Footwork.

01:34:18.000 Change from left to right.

01:34:20.000 Because in boxing, everything is about your foot.

01:34:23.000 And his footwork, his power was based on his footwork.

01:34:30.000 When you have a good base, your punch is definitely stronger when you don't have a good base.

01:34:36.000 How to have that good base to send your punch when you're Right.

01:34:42.000 Bass, right?

01:34:43.000 Yes.

01:34:44.000 And if you look at Mike Tyson, all his fight in his career, he was all about the bass, the full work.

01:34:50.000 Yes.

01:34:51.000 I watch his training sometime on YouTube still.

01:34:55.000 And then you see how he's flipping.

01:34:58.000 I'm like, it's not possible that heavyweight can do this.

01:35:00.000 I know, for a heavyweight, that's just crazy.

01:35:02.000 So here's you guys working together.

01:35:04.000 And this was four years ago.

01:35:06.000 This was the first time that I met Mike Tyson.

01:35:08.000 This was in 2019. On his podcast.

01:35:14.000 And he was always about the footwork.

01:35:19.000 Yeah, I mean, he was so well trained.

01:35:21.000 And when he was young, the way he would move in and bob and weave.

01:35:25.000 Yes, yes.

01:35:26.000 And he gets you go on that knee.

01:35:28.000 I'm like, okay, everything is in the leg, in the thigh.

01:35:33.000 You do that like twice.

01:35:35.000 I'm like, okay, I think I need some low body workout.

01:35:38.000 I'm not strong enough.

01:35:41.000 Yeah, he had a lot of footwork and movement.

01:35:44.000 That's why his leg is like this big, like a tree trunk.

01:35:48.000 Right.

01:35:48.000 A lot of bobbing and weaving, too.

01:35:50.000 Yeah.

01:35:50.000 People forget.

01:35:51.000 They just think he was a hard puncher.

01:35:53.000 Yeah, people forget.

01:35:55.000 He showed me how he was training for his leg, you know, go all the way down and do like this duck work and stuff.

01:36:04.000 I'm like, man, come on.

01:36:07.000 And that's what he did all his career.

01:36:09.000 And people don't see that.

01:36:11.000 They just see like, oh, he hit hard, he's strong.

01:36:14.000 No, he's technical and he's hard work.

01:36:17.000 Technical, hard worker, tremendous speed, perfect technique, everything.

01:36:21.000 Yeah.

01:36:22.000 All the above.

01:36:23.000 And he hits hard.

01:36:24.000 He hits hard.

01:36:25.000 Everything.

01:36:25.000 I mean, when you combine all those stuff, there's no way you don't hit hard.

01:36:31.000 Right, right.

01:36:32.000 So, does he have an idea, like looking at your frame and Tyson Fury's frame, does he have an idea of the way you should approach the fight?

01:36:42.000 Does he give you...

01:36:44.000 Like what he thinks that you would do that would be successful against Tyson Fury?

01:36:48.000 Of course.

01:36:49.000 Because his entire career, he almost fight people that was like Tyson Fury.

01:36:55.000 And that's why I explicitly went to him about this fight.

01:37:03.000 Because I feel like, again, if I was able to have, let's say, a quarter of what Mike Tyson have, this fight would be an easy fight.

01:37:14.000 Do you think so?

01:37:15.000 Really?

01:37:18.000 I mean, there's not an easy fight, but he'll be an easier fight.

01:37:23.000 Wow.

01:37:25.000 I mean, out of all your day, 24 hours a day, how often do you think about the fight?

01:37:31.000 Every minute?

01:37:32.000 Not every minute, but ...

01:37:36.000 Well, now that you're talking about it, I don't even know that I'm thinking about the fight when I think about the fight.

01:37:45.000 Right.

01:37:46.000 It's just natural.

01:37:47.000 It's just natural.

01:37:48.000 It's my life.

01:37:49.000 The most important thing is what I do every day.

01:37:54.000 Even when I don't fight, even when I don't have a fight, I think about fight.

01:37:58.000 It's just like my thing.

01:38:01.000 So I can't tell exactly how often I think about a fight.

01:38:06.000 But I know sometimes I'll go to sleep, and then he will just come in my mind, and then you start thinking, you know, start exploring those stuff.

01:38:15.000 And sometimes it's exciting.

01:38:16.000 I mean, most of the time it's exciting.

01:38:20.000 Sometimes it's also nervous.

01:38:22.000 Yes, you're also nervous about the thought that you have.

01:38:27.000 I'm like, hey man, maybe I'm missing this.

01:38:30.000 Maybe I'm not taking this serious.

01:38:32.000 Maybe this, maybe that, maybe that.

01:38:35.000 Which is good because after you have those feelings, those moments that you're not too confident, sometimes you're like, I think I shouldn't go to bed.

01:38:49.000 I didn't do enough today.

01:38:52.000 No, I shouldn't do enough today.

01:38:54.000 I need to do more.

01:38:57.000 So here we are now.

01:38:58.000 What is today?

01:38:59.000 September 21st.

01:39:00.000 So you're about six weeks out?

01:39:02.000 Five and a half.

01:39:04.000 Five and a half weeks out.

01:39:05.000 Five weeks and two days.

01:39:07.000 So you ramp up now and then you taper off the last week.

01:39:13.000 And when will you be in Saudi Arabia?

01:39:16.000 Earlier.

01:39:17.000 A couple weeks out?

01:39:19.000 Yeah.

01:39:20.000 A couple weeks out.

01:39:21.000 Three, four weeks.

01:39:22.000 So exciting, man.

01:39:23.000 Yeah.

01:39:24.000 You will be there.

01:39:26.000 I wish I could be there.

01:39:27.000 Walk around.

01:39:28.000 Process.

01:39:29.000 Think about the fight.

01:39:30.000 Yeah.

01:39:31.000 Think about everything.

01:39:32.000 Yeah.

01:39:33.000 That single day that your war gonna change.

01:39:38.000 Yeah.

01:39:39.000 How, what's gonna happen?

01:39:41.000 What would October 29 looks like?

01:39:45.000 What do you think is going to happen?

01:39:46.000 It's going to be a celebration.

01:39:48.000 It's going to be disappointment.

01:39:52.000 What's it going to be?

01:39:53.000 October 29th morning.

01:39:57.000 Exciting, huh?

01:39:57.000 You're going to feel like the king of the comfort sport.

01:40:00.000 There it is.

01:40:01.000 Oh.

01:40:02.000 Look at that.

01:40:03.000 Look at that poster. 0.99

01:40:04.000 Damn, that's a great poster. 0.99

01:40:06.000 Oh, no, you haven't seen anything. 0.99

01:40:08.000 Really?

01:40:09.000 Anything at all.

01:40:10.000 The production behind this fight, insane.

01:40:14.000 We have, like, five-day production.

01:40:16.000 Really?

01:40:17.000 At some point, I'm like, hey, guys.

01:40:18.000 But the good thing about the production, wherever we are going for production, I have my team with me.

01:40:26.000 I'm like, I still have to train.

01:40:28.000 Regardless of a promotion, I have a fight coming up.

01:40:32.000 I have to keep my training schedule.

01:40:34.000 And then they bring all my entire team with me, from the chef to the coach, nutrition.

01:40:42.000 Everybody is with me.

01:40:44.000 So...

01:40:44.000 I'm like, okay.

01:40:45.000 Do you have a prediction for this fight?

01:40:49.000 Man.

01:40:51.000 Prediction for this fight?

01:40:53.000 Knocking me out?

01:40:58.000 No, no.

01:40:59.000 I don't want to have a prediction because I will want to follow.

01:41:05.000 Right.

01:41:06.000 That might stick in my mind, and I want to execute my prediction.

01:41:10.000 Maybe just train properly, let it flow, get there, and let what happens, happen.

01:41:17.000 Just fight.

01:41:18.000 Focus on fighting.

01:41:19.000 Make sure you fight.

01:41:20.000 Make sure you're ready to give everything in there.

01:41:24.000 Yeah.

01:41:29.000 It must be so exciting for you to have made that deal, though, because everybody said that wasn't going to happen.

01:41:36.000 I read so many commentators saying Francis is wasting his time, they're never going to give him a fight.

01:41:44.000 You were asking me if this deal is a money.

01:41:51.000 That was a money, too.

01:41:53.000 Once again, to prove people wrong. 1.00

01:41:56.000 Hey, you motherfucker. 1.00

01:41:58.000 You were wrong. 1.00

01:41:59.000 I'm right.

01:42:00.000 Again.

01:42:02.000 Well, for people who don't know your story, how you went from Cameroon and went to Morocco and got sent back, where you tried to make it across to Europe, what, seven times?

01:42:13.000 Seven times.

01:42:14.000 And you were homeless at the time?

01:42:16.000 I fell six times.

01:42:18.000 Yeah.

01:42:19.000 Succeeded seven times.

01:42:20.000 But that kind of resolve and that kind of discipline and that kind of drive, that's very special.

01:42:27.000 And I think you got something from that experience and to prove what you're capable of?

01:42:31.000 No, I don't think.

01:42:32.000 You have to know.

01:42:32.000 I know, I know.

01:42:33.000 You have to know.

01:42:34.000 Like, sometimes I think about my life While I was going through my upcoming, going through all this process, I was always pissed, upset, like, why all those things happened to me?

01:42:47.000 At my cost, like, what it is that nothing can go right for me?

01:42:53.000 But when I think about it today, even though I can go back to that path, I think it was a blessing.

01:43:01.000 Because, like, the life lesson that I have learned from my journey, Seems like my journey was just preparing me for this moment, for the life that I'm having now.

01:43:14.000 You get to the point that you know the moment that I kind of like I find out that I'm rich.

01:43:23.000 It's not the moment that I check my bank account and see money.

01:43:26.000 It's not the moment that I own a house.

01:43:28.000 It's not the moment that I had a house, a car.

01:43:32.000 It's the moment that I look, I check myself.

01:43:36.000 I'm like, okay, what can possibly happen to me that I can handle, that I haven't seen?

01:43:42.000 And I say nothing.

01:43:44.000 I can handle everything.

01:43:45.000 I can overcome everything.

01:43:48.000 Therefore, I wasn't afraid of anything.

01:43:50.000 I could go ahead and let what happened, happen.

01:43:53.000 I'm not afraid of falling, because I know that I have the ability to stand up.

01:44:01.000 And that's what my life taught me.

01:44:05.000 Again, even though I didn't choose that part, it taught me that way.

01:44:12.000 And I think it's one thing that carries me.

01:44:17.000 Where I am now.

01:44:19.000 So let's talk about your PFL deal.

01:44:22.000 So where are they going to get opponents for you?

01:44:26.000 Like who's in the heavyweight division right now in the PFL? They're going to figure that out.

01:44:35.000 So they'll probably have to hire people, just try to contract people that are...

01:44:40.000 Yeah.

01:44:40.000 And they are looking for an option because my fight is supposed to be...

01:44:45.000 I'm supposed to fight in the PFL beginning of next year, February or March.

01:44:51.000 So after this fight in October, you'll take some time off and then go to MMA training?

01:44:57.000 Yeah.

01:44:57.000 And then get ready for the PFL? I have...

01:45:00.000 There are some legit people in the division.

01:45:04.000 I have this...

01:45:05.000 There is this guy, Reyna Ferreira.

01:45:11.000 I think this guy is legit.

01:45:13.000 Nobody is seeing him.

01:45:15.000 Nobody is really talking about him.

01:45:18.000 I'm like, keep eyes on this guy.

01:45:20.000 You're going to see.

01:45:21.000 He's like 6'6 guys.

01:45:25.000 Brazilian guy.

01:45:26.000 But the way he moves, the way he bugs, the way he does things, if you check that guy, you can tell me about it.

01:45:35.000 Yeah.

01:45:37.000 So...

01:45:41.000 Other than that, who can they be who is in the roster right now?

01:45:46.000 Auntie Delia.

01:45:47.000 It's Auntie Delia, I think.

01:45:50.000 Yeah.

01:45:51.000 So they're probably going to have to recruit some top-tier heavyweights if they want you to fight them.

01:45:57.000 I wish.

01:46:00.000 Yeah.

01:46:01.000 Otherwise, they have to make a tournament to get a winner that are going to fight.

01:46:08.000 But I think they need some recruiting.

01:46:12.000 And how many fights is your contract with the PFL? Multiple.

01:46:19.000 Multiple?

01:46:20.000 Multiple.

01:46:21.000 Five?

01:46:22.000 Six?

01:46:22.000 No, no, no, no.

01:46:23.000 Oh, no.

01:46:25.000 I can't get those.

01:46:26.000 You don't want to give up the details.

01:46:29.000 But you're happy with everything, though?

01:46:31.000 No, I'm happy.

01:46:32.000 I'm happy the way that it goes, the way that the structure, how...

01:46:39.000 The freedom that I have inside the country.

01:46:41.000 And I'm also more happy and excited about the PFL Africa.

01:46:47.000 Because in the deal, we have this PFL Africa that we have to launch in the beginning of 2025. And that's how we're going to expand MMA in Africa.

01:46:59.000 It's something that I've been working on, trying how to get this there, and it was hard.

01:47:07.000 And now I get a whole operation that's going to be dedicated for that.

01:47:12.000 I mean, the work is in the process already, but the first event is going to be the beginning of 2025. I'm quite excited about that.

01:47:26.000 I want to see some of those monsters that are in Africa get there, come over and knock people out, chop their heads up in the octagon. 1.00

01:47:38.000 One of the things you've done that's very nice is that you've negotiated a minimum purse for your opponents too, right? 0.92

01:47:46.000 Yeah.

01:47:47.000 Yeah.

01:47:49.000 Which is...

01:47:50.000 I mean, I don't want just to feel like a guy that goes there and grabs the money.

01:47:54.000 Okay, give me the money.

01:47:55.000 I want this.

01:47:56.000 I want that.

01:47:57.000 Right?

01:47:58.000 And then I'm fighting this guy that probably doesn't have a chance because he's struggling.

01:48:03.000 He can have a proper training.

01:48:05.000 You know, I'm here having my fancy life, my organized training.

01:48:10.000 I can have all the doctor that I want.

01:48:13.000 I can have...

01:48:13.000 The team that I won, nutritionist, this coach, that, that, that.

01:48:19.000 And then I fight a guy that didn't have a chance.

01:48:22.000 And he's in this big fight because without him, the fight, without the opening, the fight has not happened.

01:48:29.000 So he's a part of it.

01:48:31.000 And I'm like, okay.

01:48:33.000 Don't just make me look like the grab-and-go guy.

01:48:38.000 What is my opening he's having?

01:48:39.000 He's going to be a big moment.

01:48:41.000 He's going to be in the big fight.

01:48:43.000 Right?

01:48:44.000 What is it going to be for him?

01:48:46.000 So we set a minimum of two million for him.

01:48:53.000 And again, that's a minimum.

01:48:55.000 If they get somebody that have a leverage to negotiate for more, then you can negotiate for more.

01:49:03.000 But if the guy is the guy that doesn't have a leverage, they don't just have to pressure him like, oh, no, you have to fight.

01:49:10.000 This is an opportunity.

01:49:11.000 We are doing this for you.

01:49:12.000 No, you're doing this for money.

01:49:14.000 He better have his own money.

01:49:17.000 So can we at least guarantee that for this magnitude of a fight, He will have at least two million as a person.

01:49:27.000 And that was something that wasn't even difficult to have because, again, PFL was very open about that.

01:49:34.000 He was like, that's our vision for the sport.

01:49:38.000 Granted, we didn't have to go back and forth for that.

01:49:41.000 That's amazing.

01:49:43.000 That didn't take three minutes to get done.

01:49:46.000 Because how much do you think an average UFC fighter is getting paid in the heavyweight division for a fight?

01:49:53.000 I don't know.

01:49:53.000 I don't check their contract, bro.

01:49:55.000 I know how much I was making and sometimes it wasn't fun.

01:50:00.000 I know what I could have made, but I know that I have to pay another price for that.

01:50:07.000 What other price?

01:50:09.000 Contract.

01:50:10.000 Freedom.

01:50:11.000 So how good was the money that they were offering you to sign for the UFC? He was good.

01:50:20.000 He was good enough, but...

01:50:23.000 It's just the other parts of it.

01:50:25.000 The terms.

01:50:26.000 Yeah.

01:50:26.000 Where's the PFL getting all this money?

01:50:28.000 Huh?

01:50:30.000 Because they don't have a pay-per-view model.

01:50:32.000 So how are they getting all this money?

01:50:33.000 They are set in a pay-per-view super fight.

01:50:35.000 They are?

01:50:35.000 Super pay-per-view fight.

01:50:36.000 When you fight?

01:50:37.000 Yeah, when I fight.

01:50:39.000 And there's also Jake Paul that will potentially fight in the super fight.

01:50:44.000 Who is he going to fight?

01:50:45.000 Because I heard they're talking about him fighting Nate Diaz.

01:50:49.000 I don't know.

01:50:49.000 If they did that on an undercard with you, that would be a big draw.

01:50:53.000 Because their boxing match was pretty close.

01:50:56.000 Yeah.

01:50:56.000 That would be a massive, massive card.

01:51:00.000 But, yeah.

01:51:01.000 I like...

01:51:03.000 And I do like the PFR business model, that structure as a business.

01:51:11.000 Yeah.

01:51:12.000 Well, my hope is that they, well, it looks like they're buying Bellator, right?

01:51:17.000 Yeah.

01:51:18.000 I heard that.

01:51:19.000 Nothing has been confirmed.

01:51:21.000 I don't know why it's taking so long.

01:51:24.000 We should have been hearing some news.

01:51:26.000 If that happens, that changes a lot.

01:51:28.000 Because then you get some real legit heavyweights, you get some real legit lightweights, welterweights, real legit fighters.

01:51:34.000 Yeah.

01:51:34.000 Imagine the roster.

01:51:36.000 Yeah.

01:51:37.000 The merging of the roster.

01:51:39.000 That would be very good.

01:51:41.000 Very interesting.

01:51:42.000 You got guys like Johnny Elbin, who's high-level, middleweight, one of the best in the world.

01:51:46.000 You get some really good fighters over there.

01:51:48.000 Yeah.

01:51:49.000 Yeah.

01:51:49.000 I like that.

01:51:51.000 But, you know, importantly for the fighters, there needs to be competition.

01:51:55.000 There has to be options.

01:51:57.000 There have to be options.

01:51:58.000 There have to be competition.

01:51:59.000 And at the end of the day, you, the heavyweight champion of the UFC, leaving the UFC and going to the PFL is good for everybody.

01:52:06.000 I believe.

01:52:07.000 Because I believe it strengthens that organization, which strengthens the opportunities for fighters.

01:52:13.000 Yeah, and maybe open a lot of fighter eyes, because some fighters, most fighters, they have a one-sided vision.

01:52:27.000 They don't see it.

01:52:28.000 They don't even know that they have other opportunities, which is something that makes things very complicated for them.

01:52:36.000 Then they're just like, okay, whatever.

01:52:39.000 What else can I do?

01:52:41.000 I have seen people that get caught by the UFC and then they go somewhere else, whether it's in PFR, and I'm like, oh, I have a, wow, I have a new life.

01:52:53.000 I didn't know that I could make that much money on my career.

01:52:56.000 I remember once I saw a tweet, and that tweet sticked in my mind.

01:53:01.000 He was from Corey Anderson.

01:53:03.000 Yes.

01:53:04.000 After he left, I think he got caught or he left the UFC, and then had a deal with Bellator.

01:53:10.000 And then he went there, he said, he make a tweet like, UFC gives me a career, but Bellator gives me a life.

01:53:18.000 I love that tweet.

01:53:19.000 Yeah, he said he made way more money in Bellator.

01:53:22.000 Yeah.

01:53:23.000 I wonder why.

01:53:25.000 I mean, like, After this fight, I'm going to go out there and fight in the PFL. For one fight in the PFL, I'm going to be making maybe twice or three times what I've made in my entire career or in my entire life.

01:53:47.000 That's crazy.

01:53:49.000 So, you understand the difference between career and life?

01:53:53.000 Yes.

01:53:57.000 That's crazy.

01:53:59.000 That's crazy.

01:54:00.000 Good for you, man.

01:54:01.000 Good for you and good for the whole sport.

01:54:04.000 I really believe that.

01:54:06.000 I really believe that all that competition is good for the sport.

01:54:09.000 I believe that too.

01:54:10.000 And I think the sport is really changing.

01:54:13.000 Now we get all those different organizations and soon we're going to have something in Africa, massive.

01:54:24.000 There's already some organization in Africa that would need to get pushed.

01:54:28.000 Kamaru Osman has his own organization named, I think, African Knockout.

01:54:34.000 There's some organization in South Africa, somewhere else too.

01:54:39.000 And then...

01:54:41.000 Yeah, but with the PFL, the way that they're going to structure the fund, how they're going to fund it, this is going to be massive.

01:54:49.000 Because we are structuring the PFL Africa as same as the PFL Europe.

01:54:56.000 Because the PFL is having a regional PFL. So, every PFL fighter from Europe is fighting in the one pool to get a champion.

01:55:10.000 Then we can fight in the PFL global.

01:55:12.000 In Africa, we're going to have the same thing. 0.84

01:55:16.000 They're going to have basically almost the same pain.

01:55:21.000 And when you think about the currency, it makes this in Africa like massive, massive investment in the economy.

01:55:31.000 Because those guys are going to have money and they're going to start thinking about how they train properly, who they train with, they're going to finance, they're going to pay people around them.

01:55:41.000 And business is going to grow around it and help infrastructure taking off and those things.

01:55:48.000 I'm very excited about it.

01:55:51.000 And the reason why is because sometimes I want to train home.

01:55:56.000 And then I realized I can't have even a sparring partner, a legit sparring partner, because they don't even have where to train.

01:56:05.000 They haven't been training properly.

01:56:07.000 They don't have a high competition.

01:56:10.000 They don't have staff like that.

01:56:11.000 So they can't dedicate their time that much for training rather than go working to provide for their family.

01:56:20.000 But if they were able to dedicate all their time for training, how would that look like?

01:56:27.000 I might just as well move home in a couple of years and just turn and set my training, come here.

01:56:36.000 Set something like what you did here in Africa and just sit there, have my calm, have my training partners at home, enjoying it from there.

01:56:47.000 And what an inspiration that would be for them.

01:56:50.000 So young fighters that don't know, am I ever going to have a future?

01:56:53.000 And then someone comes from Cameroon, goes to the UFC, becomes a champ, goes to the PFL, fights Tyson Fury, and then comes back to Africa and trains with everybody.

01:57:03.000 I'm back already.

01:57:04.000 It's not like after 5 Tyson Fury, I'm back.

01:57:07.000 I have a foundation.

01:57:08.000 I have a gym there.

01:57:10.000 We just opened the second location in Douala.

01:57:14.000 And this is a massive facility.

01:57:16.000 That's awesome.

01:57:17.000 That's beautiful.

01:57:18.000 Yes, we were helped by a betting company named Premier Bet that helped us build this massive, in the city, bro.

01:57:26.000 That's great.

01:57:27.000 Yeah, in the city.

01:57:28.000 And we're about to build the third one.

01:57:30.000 We're trying to do some charity event, make them fight.

01:57:35.000 It's boring to just train and train and train.

01:57:39.000 They need something to get motivated by.

01:57:42.000 So we put some events.

01:57:45.000 They fight people from different countries.

01:57:49.000 So it gets them excited and focused.

01:57:53.000 And I enjoy that part.

01:57:57.000 I enjoy that process.

01:57:58.000 That's beautiful.

01:57:59.000 Yeah.

01:58:00.000 Well, Francis, listen, congratulations on getting this deal.

01:58:03.000 Congratulations on getting this fight.

01:58:04.000 And I wish you all the best of luck in the Tyson Fury fight and your PFL fights.

01:58:10.000 And if you're fighting, I'm watching.

01:58:12.000 Thank you.

01:58:13.000 Thank you.

01:58:14.000 Unfortunately, you will not be calling.

01:58:16.000 I can't be calling.

01:58:17.000 Oh, man.

01:58:20.000 I wish I could.

01:58:22.000 I can see you walking the octagon with your mic.

01:58:26.000 I think I'll be looking with Joe around.

01:58:30.000 I won't be there, but I'll be there in spirit.

01:58:33.000 Okay.

01:58:33.000 I love that.

01:58:34.000 Well, thank you, my friend.

01:58:35.000 I appreciate you very much.

01:58:36.000 Thank you.

01:58:36.000 Thank you, Joe.

01:58:37.000 Good luck to you.

01:58:37.000 All right.

01:58:37.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - October 13, 2011

JRE MMA Show #146 with Francis Ngannou

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