The Joe Rogan Experience - October 25, 2011


JRE MMA Show #151 with Bo Nickal


Episode Stats

Length

2 hours and 9 minutes

Words per Minute

189.56465

Word Count

24,457

Sentence Count

2,098

Misogynist Sentences

12

Hate Speech Sentences

9


Summary

In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, I sit down with Olympic Gold Medalist and World Record holder Kyle Snyder to talk about doping in the sport of wrestling. We talk about what it's like being part of a state-sponsored doping program, and how to deal with the pressure of being a member of one. We also talk about some of Kyle's favorite memories of competing in the Olympics, and what it was like growing up in a sport where doping was rampant. I hope you enjoy this episode, and don't forget to subscribe on your favorite streaming platform so you don't miss the next episode! -Joe Rogan Podcast by day, Train By Night, by night - all day, all day! Check it out! -JOE ROGAN EXPERIENCES by DAY, Train by Night, All Day, by Night! -The Joe Rogans Experience by Night -The J.R. Experience by Day, Training By Night -By Night, all Day, By Night! -Training By Night by Night - The J. R. Rogans Podcast by Day -Training by Night By Night By Day - By Night...by Night, By Day...By Night...By Day... by Night... By Night.... By Day.... By Night!! -By Day.... - By Day!! by Night!! - By DAY by DAY! , By DAY! by DAY By DAY, By MONTH! by MONTH, By DAY by DAY , By WEEK, By WEEK by WEEKLYN by WEEK By WEEKLY, By DECADE by WEEK by WEEK, BY MONTH BY WEEK, AND SOON AUGMENT BY WEEK , AND EVERY OTHER DAY, BY DECADE, AND MONTH By WEEK BY WEEKLY AND EVERY MONTH BY WEEK By WEEK By EVERY OTHER THAN EVERY WEEK - BY WEEK! By EVERY DAY - AND WEEKLY... By WEEKYYY By A MONTH.... EVERTHING, EVERY WEEK, EVERY FAST AND EVERY WEEKEND, EVERY DECADE & THE DECADE... And EVERY WEEK!! , ...and EVERY WEEK!!! WELL, EVERY MONDAY, AND EVERY MOST OF THAN EVERTHING I HAVE A FRIENDS AND EVERY DAY, AND THE NEXT WEEK, AND THE MONTH EVERTHING EVERTHING! I LOVE IT!


Transcript

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan podcast, check it out!
00:00:04.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.
00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day!
00:00:13.000 What's up, Bo?
00:00:14.000 How are you?
00:00:15.000 Good, how are you doing?
00:00:16.000 Not much.
00:00:17.000 I was going to ask you, we were just looking at that photo of Corellon and talking about the Soviet program and the doping program.
00:00:23.000 Did you ever see that movie, Icarus?
00:00:25.000 Yeah, I did watch that.
00:00:26.000 Fucking...
00:00:27.000 Crazy.
00:00:28.000 I thought it was just insane, too, how it didn't even really start off the way that it ended.
00:00:33.000 Like, he wasn't even really trying to, like, figure all this stuff out.
00:00:36.000 He just, like, fell into it, right?
00:00:38.000 Yeah.
00:00:38.000 Total dumb luck.
00:00:39.000 Yeah, but, I mean, since I wrestled my whole life and stuff and pay attention to the international scene, it's like...
00:00:45.000 It's not really a secret.
00:00:46.000 Everybody kind of knows, right?
00:00:48.000 That's the first legitimate, real proof that somebody's kind of come out with.
00:00:54.000 But everybody kind of knew that's what's going on.
00:00:57.000 That was so insane, though, that they had a hole in the wall where they were handing through the dirty urine and getting back clean urine and then submitting that.
00:01:08.000 And if it wasn't for micro-analysis of the jars, then they realized, oh, the Soviets had figured out, well, it wasn't the Soviets, it was the Russians, had figured out some way To open up these unopenable jars because they had scratched them in little places.
00:01:25.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:01:25.000 I mean, they want to win really bad.
00:01:28.000 And it's like, for them too, it's a different level.
00:01:32.000 The guys that won that were very successful maybe 10, 15, 20 years ago, those guys are like big government positions and stuff.
00:01:41.000 In the U.S., You win the Olympics in wrestling, you win like a quarter million bucks, and it's a big deal for like a month, and then you kind of move on.
00:01:49.000 But over there, it's like you're kind of set for life.
00:01:51.000 So it's like, yeah, it's a completely different kind of motivation, I think.
00:01:56.000 What is it like competing when you know that there's like state-sponsored programs that are involved in these other countries doping up their athletes?
00:02:05.000 It's pretty weird, you know?
00:02:06.000 I think that...
00:02:07.000 Because, like I said, I kind of grew up...
00:02:09.000 You grow up with an understanding of it, knowing this is kind of the way it works.
00:02:14.000 You're ready for it, you're prepared, you understand.
00:02:16.000 And I'm sure I've competed against a lot of guys that were doping and doing stuff, but the one experience that I had that was like...
00:02:24.000 Really kind of prominent in my mind.
00:02:26.000 So I wrestled this dude.
00:02:27.000 I wrestled a tournament in Rome.
00:02:29.000 This was a few years ago.
00:02:31.000 And I was trying to go up from...
00:02:33.000 I was in between weights.
00:02:34.000 So my weight was 86 kilos or 97 kilos.
00:02:38.000 And I was kind of having a little trouble with my lower back.
00:02:41.000 So I was like, I don't want to cut.
00:02:42.000 I just want to get bigger.
00:02:43.000 And so I came in and I was weighing like 210, which the weight class is 213, 97 kilos.
00:02:50.000 And I was like, I'll be fine.
00:02:52.000 I'll be good.
00:02:52.000 And I rolled up to this second round match and I was wrestling this Iranian dude.
00:02:59.000 And my coaches weren't there with me, so I had some different coaches, and they didn't really warn me who this dude was.
00:03:04.000 I had wrestled the number one Iranian guy a few months earlier, and I tech-faulted him.
00:03:09.000 I killed him.
00:03:10.000 So I was like, I'm a smasher steeler.
00:03:11.000 I don't give a crap.
00:03:12.000 This dude comes out.
00:03:14.000 He's like two inches taller than me, freaking jacked as hell, and does a forward roll and squat jump, and his feet are over my head.
00:03:23.000 And I'm like, what the hell is going on here?
00:03:26.000 And we're just this random tournament in Rome, and I'm wrestling some dude that I don't even know, and he killed me.
00:03:31.000 It's the only time I've ever wrestled a match where I really got whipped.
00:03:35.000 Single leg took me down, gut-wrenched me, and he came down from probably like 235. He was way bigger than me.
00:03:42.000 And then I got off the mat, and I was like, what the just happened?
00:03:46.000 And then the coach was like, oh yeah, this guy was...
00:03:52.000 World silver medalist, world bronze medalist like five years ago, but the last five years he got banned, he got popped, and so he hadn't competed in five years, he'd just been freaking training and juiced.
00:04:03.000 And then he actually, the next round, he beat my teammate Kyle Snyder, who was an Olympic gold medalist, the exact same way, like smoked us both.
00:04:10.000 And I was like, what the hell is going on here?
00:04:13.000 So then World Championship that year comes along, and now they're getting tested, and he went 0-1.
00:04:20.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:04:20.000 I was like, alright.
00:04:22.000 So I kind of felt bad about myself at first.
00:04:24.000 I was like, damn, I suck.
00:04:25.000 And then I was like, alright, well, it is what it is.
00:04:27.000 Whatever.
00:04:27.000 Have you ever heard of the enhanced games?
00:04:30.000 No.
00:04:31.000 It's a thing they're trying to do where I guess what they're doing is they're allowing athletes and they're going to do it at the same time as the Olympics.
00:04:42.000 Okay.
00:04:42.000 And they're allowing athletes to juice and they're doing it supposedly responsibly with doctors involved and they're trying to break all the records.
00:04:53.000 Yeah.
00:04:54.000 I like it.
00:04:55.000 I like that.
00:04:56.000 Let's do it.
00:04:57.000 And just be honest about it.
00:04:58.000 Like, yo, this is the deal.
00:04:59.000 This is what we do.
00:05:00.000 Let's freaking see how far we can go.
00:05:02.000 Because, I mean, I think that's, I don't know.
00:05:04.000 I like, that stuff's interesting to me.
00:05:07.000 The optimization of, like, human performance, right?
00:05:09.000 Like, how far can you get?
00:05:12.000 So, like, let's do it.
00:05:14.000 That'd be fun.
00:05:15.000 Yeah, it's interesting, right?
00:05:17.000 Because, like, you think about that guy, the Iranian that you wrestled.
00:05:21.000 How much of an advantage is it?
00:05:25.000 You never know because a guy like that's probably been juicing his entire athletic career.
00:05:30.000 For sure.
00:05:31.000 But what is the advantage?
00:05:32.000 Do you ever wonder?
00:05:36.000 I've thought about it as far as the advantages.
00:05:40.000 I never have been interested in trying anything like that.
00:05:43.000 It's not really the culture.
00:05:45.000 What I'm around in wrestling, in American wrestling, nobody does that.
00:05:49.000 Well, I won't say nobody, but...
00:05:51.000 99% of guys really aren't doing that especially as we get tested a lot like in collegiate athletics and stuff and It's just something that is kind of very looked down upon in what we do but it is interesting to think about like What would I be like if I was doing these things?
00:06:09.000 I can compete at such a high level already, and I think that my biggest asset in wrestling and in fighting is my mind.
00:06:20.000 Imagine my body.
00:06:22.000 And I think that with time, I'm very disciplined and do things a certain way.
00:06:27.000 I'm going to get to it as close as I can be.
00:06:30.000 But there is this other level that's kind of unnatural where it's interesting to think about, but while I'm competing and stuff, it's obviously not an option.
00:06:42.000 But at the end of the day, I probably have competed against a lot of guys that are juiced up, and we'll see what the UFC's drug testing program is like since USADA's over at the end of the year.
00:06:54.000 It is what it is, man.
00:06:57.000 I'm pretty confident in myself regardless.
00:07:01.000 If I've got to fight a dude that's juiced up and you're willing to take a backdoor to try to get an advantage and win, I think that you're probably cutting corners in a lot of other areas as well, which I'm not doing.
00:07:14.000 That's something that...
00:07:16.000 I feel okay with.
00:07:18.000 The thing is when the guy's not cutting corners and juicing and has talent.
00:07:23.000 I just think that if they're willing to do that, if they're willing to go outside the rules and do that, to me that's kind of like they're trying to get an unfair advantage.
00:07:31.000 That's kind of a character thing.
00:07:33.000 They want to get that advantage.
00:07:36.000 To me that means they're Fearful that they wouldn't be able to do it without it.
00:07:42.000 Yeah, they might be doing everything right, but I know that in their mind, there's a little weakness there to me.
00:07:47.000 And I can take advantage of that and capitalize on that because at the end of the day, I'm going to do every single little thing right.
00:07:52.000 I'm going to make sure my sleep's on point, make sure my nutrition's on point.
00:07:55.000 And not only am I going to do this for a camp, but I'm doing this all the time.
00:07:59.000 And I've been doing this since I was a little kid.
00:08:01.000 So take what you want, do all that stuff, but you're not going to outwork 20-plus years in the short amount of time that you have to prepare for me.
00:08:12.000 So that's kind of my mindset around it.
00:08:15.000 It's just the reality of the situation.
00:08:17.000 I'm going to fight guys that are probably doing stuff that I'm not doing.
00:08:22.000 Well, I believe that the new UFC drug doping program is going to be real similar to USADA. They're just not going to do the dumb shit like wake people up the morning of the weigh-ins and things along those lines.
00:08:35.000 Unfortunately, they're still not going to let them take certain things that just like peptides, things that will enhance their body's ability to heal, which I really think they should.
00:08:44.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:08:44.000 Like BPC, 157, stuff like that.
00:08:46.000 Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
00:08:47.000 Yeah.
00:08:47.000 I think there's stuff out there that it's not really like hormonal changes.
00:08:52.000 It's not giving you that type of advantage.
00:08:53.000 It's just helping you get healthy.
00:08:55.000 Yeah.
00:08:56.000 We all want to be healthy and healthy.
00:08:59.000 For me, that comes from diet, from supplements, from nutrition.
00:09:05.000 I'm doing everything I can and I still finish some sessions and I'm like, frick.
00:09:11.000 I got a freaking black eye right now.
00:09:14.000 Like, it's not like, you know, we're not putting our bodies through a lot.
00:09:19.000 You're putting your bodies through so much.
00:09:20.000 I mean, it's literally a sport about breaking other people's bodies with your body.
00:09:24.000 Yeah.
00:09:25.000 Yeah.
00:09:26.000 It's the most insane thing to pursue for a career.
00:09:29.000 I think about it sometimes, and I have this part of me that's pretty...
00:09:35.000 Pretty rational.
00:09:36.000 And I think like, you know, all right, I'm going out in front of all these people and like putting my health on the line and this and that.
00:09:44.000 And at the end of the day, it's like, you know, you look out of a business perspective and it's almost like a circus, right?
00:09:50.000 Like, you know, I'm putting myself out there and it's entertainment.
00:09:54.000 But like I'm the one that has the real consequences and stuff.
00:09:56.000 And I'm like, why am I doing this?
00:09:57.000 This is so crazy.
00:09:59.000 And then the other part of me, the bigger part of me is like, I love this shit.
00:10:04.000 This is the best.
00:10:05.000 Let's do it again, again, again.
00:10:06.000 So it's a constant battle inside your mind.
00:10:08.000 I don't know.
00:10:09.000 I feel like...
00:10:11.000 I don't mean to toot my own horn, but I'm a college graduate.
00:10:16.000 I had a lot of opportunities.
00:10:17.000 There's a lot of things I could be doing.
00:10:18.000 I could be pretty much doing anything.
00:10:19.000 I could be...
00:10:20.000 You know, coaching, I could be in business, I could be doing whatever I want to do, but I'm choosing to do this, and there's a lot more consequences on the negative end of what I'm doing now, but I just freaking love it.
00:10:35.000 I just love it so much.
00:10:37.000 Well, the victory, the feeling of victory has got to just be the ultimate payoff for all that.
00:10:43.000 It's unreal, man.
00:10:44.000 So, you know, I mean, you've fought, so you understand.
00:10:49.000 But, like, when I was wrestling and I would pin somebody in front of, you know, 10, 20,000 people and the crowd's going nuts, freaking out, this and that, it's like...
00:11:01.000 That's an amazing feeling.
00:11:02.000 And then, come to the UFC, that same big stage, even bigger stage, millions of people watching worldwide, knock a guy out cold, it's like, phew, you can't beat that.
00:11:13.000 It's amazing.
00:11:14.000 When did you decide, or when did you even entertain the idea of transitioning to MMA? So, I always loved fighting, and I was always a fan of the UFC. I probably started watching when I was, I don't know, 11, 12. It was something with my family, we'd go to Buffalo Wild Wings on Saturday, we'd watch the fights, or we'd get the pay-per-view at home.
00:11:36.000 It was always something that I was like, I could do that.
00:11:39.000 Me and my friends would fight and stuff, or we'd fight other kids just for fun.
00:11:43.000 So it was always something that was kind of in the back of my mind.
00:11:46.000 You know, really through high school, through early college, I'm wrestling.
00:11:51.000 I'm focused on wrestling.
00:11:52.000 And then I did a camp in Missouri, and I was teaching wrestling all day.
00:11:59.000 And then this dad came up to me and was like, hey man, we're doing a jiu-jitsu class after this.
00:12:05.000 Would you want to come and try it out?
00:12:06.000 And I was like...
00:12:07.000 Yeah, yeah, sure.
00:12:08.000 Like, I'm down.
00:12:08.000 Let's go.
00:12:09.000 And so I go in, and they just kind of...
00:12:12.000 I rolled around with all the guys, and I was like, dude, this is fun.
00:12:15.000 Like, I love this.
00:12:16.000 I'm really into...
00:12:16.000 I have to fight.
00:12:18.000 It was just that one class kind of...
00:12:20.000 One class?
00:12:21.000 Well, I was always interested in it, and I'd always play around.
00:12:23.000 And then I actually, like, kind of...
00:12:24.000 I hadn't done it for a while, like, played around at all.
00:12:27.000 And then the guy invited me, and I'm just, like, about it.
00:12:30.000 Like, what if somebody's like, yo, come do this?
00:12:32.000 I'm like, let's go.
00:12:32.000 And so it was just super fun to...
00:12:36.000 Do something different.
00:12:37.000 And that was probably in between my sophomore and junior year.
00:12:41.000 And I was like, dude, I'm gonna do this.
00:12:44.000 I'm gonna see this wrestling thing through to where I feel comfortable and ready to move on, and then I'm fighting.
00:12:52.000 I just knew I wanted to do it.
00:12:53.000 So was that jujitsu class, was that the first thing outside of wrestling you'd done in combat sports?
00:13:01.000 I had done like, so this is actually kind of funny, when I was like 12 or something, no I was probably younger, I was probably like 10 or 11, there was a jiu-jitsu tournament at a high school that, my high school, so my dad was a high school wrestling coach, and this jiu-jitsu, it was like Naga or something, they wanted to put on a tournament at the high school, and so my dad set it up, like put all the mats in and stuff, and I was like, why don't you enter?
00:13:25.000 I was like...
00:13:26.000 Okay, I don't know anything.
00:13:28.000 I've never trained, nothing.
00:13:29.000 And he was like, just do it.
00:13:30.000 And so I did that tournament and I actually won.
00:13:34.000 But I never trained or anything.
00:13:36.000 You just won with wrestling?
00:13:37.000 Yeah.
00:13:38.000 I'd watched UFC, so I knew, alright, the guy's going to try to guillotine me, or he's going to try to get my back, and I'm just like, don't let him do that.
00:13:45.000 And again, I played around.
00:13:49.000 Just watching stuff on TV, you can learn a few things.
00:13:52.000 And so I did the tournament, and that was it.
00:13:55.000 So I never trained.
00:13:56.000 Did you get any submissions?
00:13:58.000 Um...
00:13:59.000 I think I submitted a kit.
00:14:02.000 Yeah, what's this called, but like in a front headlock?
00:14:06.000 I forget the submission.
00:14:06.000 Oh, like a power guillotine?
00:14:08.000 Yeah, yeah, like that.
00:14:08.000 So I submitted the first dude like this.
00:14:10.000 And then after that, I just kind of took the guys down and held them down and stuff.
00:14:14.000 And actually in the finals, it was a tough match because I went against a kid who I had competitive.
00:14:19.000 He wrestled as well.
00:14:21.000 And I had competitive wrestling matches with him.
00:14:23.000 Not that competitive.
00:14:24.000 I would kind of whip him in wrestling.
00:14:25.000 But he also trained jiu-jitsu.
00:14:27.000 And right away he pulled guard.
00:14:30.000 And I was like, what the...
00:14:31.000 But he knew good wrestling, so I couldn't really do anything to him.
00:14:35.000 And I didn't know the rules at all, so he was winning on advantage, but then I somehow got past his guard at the very end, and then they gave me a point and I won.
00:14:45.000 But...
00:14:47.000 Really, that was it up until my second, third year in college, and I did that class.
00:14:54.000 When did you start striking?
00:14:57.000 I had a buddy, a good buddy.
00:14:59.000 He's actually the boxing coach now at my gym.
00:15:01.000 He was a collegiate national champion in boxing.
00:15:05.000 I did like...
00:15:07.000 Pads with him over COVID like once or twice.
00:15:12.000 But I really started actually training striking, like getting into it.
00:15:18.000 I started MMA training full-time August of 2021. That's when I started.
00:15:23.000 That's insane.
00:15:24.000 So you've really only been seriously striking for two years.
00:15:27.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:15:28.000 That's it.
00:15:29.000 I feel like I just like it.
00:15:32.000 It's fun, so I study it a lot.
00:15:34.000 I'm always watching film.
00:15:36.000 Yeah.
00:15:36.000 Well, your last performance, man, like, the thing about, you know, watching you fight inside the octagon, like, everybody knows how good of a wrestler you are.
00:15:43.000 So they're looking for that.
00:15:44.000 But in the last fight, I was like, oh, shit!
00:15:48.000 Like, distance management, your ability to slide out of range and then explode back into range and timing with punches...
00:15:56.000 Look how you've been boxing forever.
00:15:58.000 Really, it was very impressive.
00:16:00.000 And I know the guy came in on short notice.
00:16:02.000 He's small for the weight class.
00:16:04.000 But dude, you looked fucking great.
00:16:06.000 Thank you.
00:16:07.000 Yeah, I felt like, you know, people say, you know, about the matchup, this and that.
00:16:12.000 It was like...
00:16:13.000 Well, I did what I was supposed to do.
00:16:15.000 Yeah.
00:16:15.000 It was totally out of your control.
00:16:17.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:16:17.000 And so I feel like I was just excited that I got to fight because I thought I was done.
00:16:22.000 Who was supposed to fight you?
00:16:23.000 It was Treshawn Gore.
00:16:24.000 That's right.
00:16:25.000 What happened to him?
00:16:26.000 He hurt, I don't know, it hurt his wrist or his thumb or something.
00:16:29.000 But honestly, as soon as they announced it, I was like, freak.
00:16:33.000 I had a feeling.
00:16:33.000 He was talking crazy, saying he was going to give me brain damage, all this stuff.
00:16:37.000 I was like, alright bud, we'll see.
00:16:39.000 And then I was like, this dude freaking pulled out after saying all this stuff.
00:16:44.000 I kind of expected it, but then the new guy came in and I was just, like you said, grateful I got a fight.
00:16:50.000 Yeah, you know, the actual fight, the plan was to take him down, sub him, you know.
00:16:54.000 Of course, like, that's my wheelhouse.
00:16:56.000 But I have great, great coaches, you know, for striking.
00:17:00.000 I work with the dude I was telling you, his name's Moose, collegiate national champion boxing.
00:17:04.000 Grew up in Philly, probably had 70, 80 amateur boxing fights.
00:17:07.000 And so that's who I'm, like, training with and who's teaching me every day.
00:17:10.000 And then I work with another guy, his name's Barry Robinson.
00:17:13.000 You should check him out.
00:17:14.000 He's on Instagram, a millionstylesboxing.com.
00:17:16.000 Dude's an amazing, amazing striking coach.
00:17:19.000 He lives in Thailand now, but I brought him out to PA for a few weeks and he worked with me on a lot of stuff.
00:17:25.000 Dude, all my stuff is just from them.
00:17:27.000 I want to utilize my wrestling, but it's a fight.
00:17:32.000 Everybody's nervous.
00:17:33.000 I'm going to take him down, this and that.
00:17:34.000 When I go in there, I have the hours and the reps of training this way in the striking.
00:17:40.000 That's what comes out.
00:17:42.000 I think that That's my mindset now with fighting.
00:17:45.000 I got the ultimate cheat code with wrestling.
00:17:48.000 So use that to my advantage, whatever it looks like.
00:17:50.000 Whether it's actually wrestling, take a guy down, hold him down, or whether it's the threat of it.
00:17:55.000 And that's where I feel like it's a psychological battle where the guy's so worried.
00:18:02.000 If you saw, I just did a little feint, dude dropped his hand, and I was like, alright, you're done, bro.
00:18:07.000 Boom!
00:18:07.000 And then...
00:18:09.000 Then after that, it was kind of funny because I hit him and I saw him wobble.
00:18:13.000 I was like, in my mind, you're making so many decisions in that split second.
00:18:17.000 But I was thinking, okay, I could take him down, I could back off, or just go in for the kill.
00:18:22.000 And that's just my nature to go for the kill.
00:18:25.000 So then just took him out.
00:18:27.000 When you have that wrestling base, it is such a giant advantage.
00:18:32.000 I always tell any young athlete that that is the 100% best foundation for Because you get to choose whether a fight is standing or on the ground, and then there's the threat of that.
00:18:44.000 And the threat of that has so many consequences in terms of how your opponent's going to react and what they're going to do.
00:18:49.000 You were talking about that feint.
00:18:51.000 It's so gigantic, man.
00:18:53.000 Because a guy always has it in the back of their head that you might take him down, but you don't ever have that.
00:18:59.000 No.
00:18:59.000 Yeah, I'm not worried about it at all.
00:19:00.000 Freedom.
00:19:01.000 Yeah, I would say in the actual flight, the biggest advantage is the psychology of...
00:19:09.000 Them feeling threatened, feeling pressured, feeling nervous, like, shit, if I get taken down, I'm probably not getting back up.
00:19:16.000 Like, I can't get taken down.
00:19:17.000 Now that's what they're focused on, rather than winning the fight.
00:19:20.000 And, you know, of course, you know, the actual skills that come with that, of being able to implement that, the game plan, and do it is big, but if you ever notice and you watch guys fight or compete, especially in training, if you see one guy's a little more tense, a little more nervous, a little, like, more reacting, That's such a big part of how much energy you spend in the overall time of the fight.
00:19:48.000 I noticed when I got a lot better at wrestling and when I started pinning a lot more guys was when I just relaxed.
00:19:53.000 It was like this huge thing for me because I pinned a lot of guys growing up and got a lot of pins, but Then in college, guys get a little better.
00:20:03.000 They learn how to hold you off a little better.
00:20:04.000 And so I would use all my energy, all my strength, try to throw them on their back.
00:20:07.000 And a lot of times I would.
00:20:09.000 And so I'd get up, you know, a bunch of points.
00:20:11.000 But then towards the end, I'd get a little tired.
00:20:12.000 I wouldn't finish as strong.
00:20:14.000 Instead of just what I figured out later in my career was, all right, I'm just going to relax.
00:20:18.000 I'm just going to move you around.
00:20:19.000 Just get into position, pull you, push you, fake.
00:20:22.000 And I'm very relaxed.
00:20:23.000 Okay, you shoot.
00:20:24.000 No worries.
00:20:24.000 I'm going to down block, run around you.
00:20:26.000 And then...
00:20:28.000 When I have my opportunity, maybe you're fading a little bit, now I overwhelm you.
00:20:32.000 Versus trying to do that when we're both fresh.
00:20:34.000 So that's where I feel like in a fight, it's 15 minutes, really long time.
00:20:40.000 I don't got to overwhelm you in the first minute.
00:20:42.000 I can just be relaxed, move, catch your jab, check your kicks.
00:20:46.000 Set you up, and then wham!
00:20:48.000 And then overwhelm you when the time comes.
00:20:50.000 And I'm very relaxed because, like you said, you're going to shoot on me?
00:20:54.000 Dude, you shoot on me, the fight's over.
00:20:55.000 I'm going to win.
00:20:56.000 As soon as I catch somebody shooting on me, it's like, you're done.
00:20:59.000 So that's what I want them to.
00:21:02.000 But more than likely, that's never going to happen.
00:21:04.000 So they're going to be very tense, nervous, worrying about that stuff.
00:21:07.000 So that's kind of how I feel about the wrestling advantage.
00:21:12.000 Exactly like you said, it's so big to have that comfort and confidence.
00:21:16.000 Yeah, and that knowledge of when to hit the gas and when to be relaxed, that plays such a critical factor when you move from three to five rounds as well.
00:21:25.000 So when a guy is a champion and a guy has been fighting most, like a John Jones type guy, has been fighting five rounders for a decade plus, for a guy like him, he has almost like an internal sense.
00:21:39.000 Of when to hit the gas and what to do and how much energy he has.
00:21:44.000 Yeah, it's such a big thing, man.
00:21:46.000 Wrestling, the longest match is seven minutes.
00:21:49.000 It's not even half of a normal fight.
00:21:52.000 And then to go from 15 to 25, that's a huge jump.
00:21:56.000 So that's something I'm definitely preparing for in my mind.
00:21:59.000 And I think that fighting can become such an emotional thing.
00:22:04.000 People get baited into fighting a certain way that it's so important to be disciplined.
00:22:10.000 Obviously, you actually have to have the training and the base and the cardio to be able to do that, then to also implement it in front of millions of people and all the pressures on you.
00:22:22.000 And now there's this other guy who's a monster coming at you, trying to knock you out.
00:22:27.000 You know, you got to be a certain type of person, I think, and have a certain mindset to be able to be disciplined and calm and stoic in that fire, right?
00:22:38.000 Because you could have all the cardio in the world, but if you go 100% for two and a half minutes, you can't do that for 25, right?
00:22:47.000 You're going to lose it no matter what, even if you have the training.
00:22:50.000 So keeping cool in that situation, I think, is almost equally as important.
00:22:54.000 Yeah, we've seen that in so many fights where guys get really emotional and they really try to hit the gas in the first round.
00:23:00.000 And then you see in the second round, they've already blown their wad.
00:23:03.000 It's rough.
00:23:04.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:23:05.000 And I'm glad that I was able to learn exactly that in wrestling, where, you know, the stakes are lower.
00:23:11.000 And, you know, you don't really...
00:23:13.000 Being tired in a fight is pretty much the worst thing that you could be, right?
00:23:17.000 Like, you know, you got a guy who's a little more fresh than you, who's popping you a jab, who's kicking your legs, you know, pushing you up against the fence.
00:23:26.000 It's like, you do not want to be tired.
00:23:27.000 Yeah.
00:23:28.000 No, it's hell.
00:23:29.000 A good example is Sean Strickland and Adesanya.
00:23:34.000 Sean wasn't tired at all.
00:23:35.000 When you get to the end of the round and the end of the fight, you see Adesanya is just beat up and tired and Sean's just constant pressure on him.
00:23:43.000 Yeah, I would say that my assessment is you've got to be good at everything, but cardio is a real X factor in MMA, almost more so than any other sport, just because you can just put that on somebody, and if they can't sustain it, As long as you don't get knocked out in the first few minutes, they're just going to fade and you're going to gain that energy and eventually you're going to kind of overpower them.
00:24:11.000 It's the way that it works and it happens time and time again.
00:24:14.000 It happens so often in MMA. How the fuck did you get so good at striking so quick?
00:24:20.000 Did you have any fucking around with your friends, hitting the bag, anything when you were younger, hitting mitts?
00:24:27.000 Nope.
00:24:28.000 That's nuts.
00:24:29.000 Yeah, nothing.
00:24:30.000 That's really very unusual.
00:24:32.000 Yeah, I think that really it's two things.
00:24:36.000 Again, my coaches, the guys I work with, they're incredible.
00:24:41.000 So knowledgeable, experienced, and not only, like I said, I have these guys holding pads for me and coaching me, but the guy Moose, I get to spar with him.
00:24:52.000 How many MMA fighters have a guy that's a collegiate national champion with 80...
00:24:59.000 Amateur boxing fights as their main sparring partner.
00:25:02.000 Most guys in MMA are striking other MMA fighters.
00:25:04.000 So I know if I'm hanging in there with him and I can move and defend and hit him with some shots, what are these guys going to do to me?
00:25:12.000 So that's kind of where I started.
00:25:14.000 And then I love, I just love it.
00:25:16.000 Like I watch so much film.
00:25:18.000 I'm watching boxing.
00:25:19.000 I'm watching Muay Thai.
00:25:20.000 I'm watching kickboxing.
00:25:21.000 I'm always studying, always watching breakdowns.
00:25:24.000 And that's another thing that I learned from wrestling where I think I had a big leg up on people because I was studying it like a science almost at a young age.
00:25:35.000 Watching Kale Sanderson, you know, when I was eight years old, watching Satieff Brothers, watching, you know, multiple-time world champions.
00:25:46.000 Every tournament, and my dad was a coach, so I'd be at every high school wrestling tournament watching, and I absorbed a lot of information from that.
00:25:53.000 And so I just took those principles, and now I apply them to MMA. So, you know, it's not unusual for me to...
00:25:59.000 Study four or five hours of film in a week where, yeah, maybe I can't train an extra four or five hours, but now I have this extra four or five hours on top of the competition that, you know, these guys, I don't think they're really willing to do that, to put that time in.
00:26:10.000 When you are watching film and you're studying, like, how are you doing this?
00:26:15.000 Are you taking notes?
00:26:16.000 Are you just watching it and mentally making notes?
00:26:20.000 Or are you writing things down?
00:26:22.000 Are you specifically looking at specific types like Ernesto Hoost or Sanchai?
00:26:27.000 How are you doing it?
00:26:29.000 I do it two different ways.
00:26:31.000 Sometimes I'll watch just kind of as I won't say entertainment because it's not purely entertainment, but I'll just watch and enjoy and appreciate the art.
00:26:41.000 And I'll just look at it like, wow, that was amazing.
00:26:44.000 Oh, look at this technique he did.
00:26:45.000 And kind of, you know, be more on the creative side of, you know, trying to think about things in that way.
00:26:53.000 And then other times I can be very analytical and break things down and look at positioning and kind of start from the ground up where I see how they move into a position that puts them at an advantage.
00:27:08.000 Now their opponent has to react or counter a certain way or stay in a spot.
00:27:12.000 Now that gives them time to see, think, decide what they're going to do.
00:27:17.000 And really I learned a lot of my film study habits in the analytical sense from the guys was telling me about Barry Robinson.
00:27:24.000 He is, to me, the best film study breakdown guy there is.
00:27:29.000 So I'll do stuff on my own.
00:27:31.000 I'll also do stuff with him where I'll say, hey, I want to look at Southpaw Orthodox matchups, or I want to look at how somebody effectively counters a big right hand, or a good example of a guy that checks kicks, or a good example of a guy that manages the clock.
00:27:48.000 So we'll look at all these specific things and then he will help me break them down analytically and then I just kind of take some of the stuff that I learned from him and I do it on my own as well.
00:27:58.000 It's such an interesting thing to see a guy coming from that analytical approach to wrestling where you become incredibly successful and then just apply that to other combat sports because I think there's a lot of young athletes, unfortunately, that I don't think they maximize their time.
00:28:18.000 I think they show up and train and they train hard, but I don't necessarily think they're doing it systematically and technically and breaking things down.
00:28:30.000 They're just trying to be good instead of really focusing on very specific aspects.
00:28:36.000 And when you did that your whole life with wrestling, applying that to striking just seems kind of natural.
00:28:43.000 For sure.
00:28:44.000 And I think the most important word that you said in that statement was systematically.
00:28:48.000 You have to put a system together, right?
00:28:50.000 Everybody can go learn a combination.
00:28:52.000 Everybody can go learn how to throw a kick to the body or how to do a technique.
00:28:58.000 But if you don't have a system and you don't have a way to apply it in actual competition, then there's really no point to what you're learning.
00:29:07.000 And I think the MMA, the culture of MMA, It's such a new sport, one, but it's such a tough guy mentality sport of, you know, let's bang, bro, like, let's get in there, let's do this, and it's, you know, that's not really, to me, I see fighting moving in a different direction.
00:29:25.000 I see it moving in a way, and I hope to push it more towards an analytical, professional way to go about your sport, the way that NFL quarterback plays.
00:29:35.000 Reads a defense.
00:29:37.000 You hear an NBA basketball player talk about offenses, schemes, setting it up.
00:29:42.000 That's not the way an MMA fighter talks about fighting.
00:29:45.000 And I hope to move MMA into a more professional realm where now we can look at things, we can systematize, we can break stuff down, we can analyze, and then it's gonna make everyone better.
00:29:59.000 It's gonna improve the overall sport.
00:30:02.000 And I think that when you talk that way too, It appeals to a much broader audience, and it'll get more eyes on the sport, which is also very positive.
00:30:10.000 What 40-year-old mom wants to hear guys talking about just crushing each other's faces and heads and this and that?
00:30:20.000 But maybe that 40-year-old mom will listen to an interview where Tom Brady talks about being a quarterback.
00:30:26.000 You can appreciate it a little more.
00:30:28.000 That's kind of the way that I look at it.
00:30:31.000 A lot of it comes from my background in wrestling and just the way that I've approached that sport and the way that my coaches in wrestling have handled themselves and just what I've been taught.
00:30:44.000 I think the MMA, people still want to see violence, but I would hope that we can make it Into a platform where there's some people that want to see the sport.
00:30:55.000 And I would hope that it continues to...
00:30:58.000 I think it's already trending that way, but continues to move that way.
00:31:00.000 The reason why I think it's going to go that way is because I think those fighters are going to be the most successful.
00:31:05.000 Just like those quarterbacks that study tape, they are the most successful.
00:31:13.000 Going over plays, they're the most successful.
00:31:16.000 And I just think it's, you know, one of the things that DC said when you won your last fight, he just started saying, blue chip!
00:31:24.000 That's blue chip!
00:31:25.000 But there is something to that, that the elite of the elite in any sport, they have to have all their bases covered.
00:31:33.000 And when those elite of the elite then enter MMA and use that same analytical, systematic approach To training and getting better at this.
00:31:44.000 They're gonna get so good that everyone's gonna have to do that.
00:31:48.000 Unless you're some freak of all freaks athletically that can get away with things.
00:31:52.000 Right.
00:31:53.000 Which we have seen guys like that.
00:31:54.000 Yeah.
00:31:54.000 But for the most part, hard work overcomes that.
00:31:59.000 Oh, absolutely.
00:32:00.000 And intelligence and proper training, for the most part.
00:32:03.000 Yeah, for sure.
00:32:03.000 So tell me what you think of this, because I kind of look at the sport and see the trends and the way things are going.
00:32:10.000 So it started off in MMA. It was like, which martial art beat which?
00:32:17.000 And we kind of saw the wrestlers had some success, but then Hoist Gracie in jiu-jitsu was like, if you don't know jiu-jitsu, you're going to get destroyed.
00:32:25.000 You're going to get killed.
00:32:26.000 And then it became, okay...
00:32:29.000 Now, if I know a little jujitsu and I can defend and then strike, that's the advantage.
00:32:34.000 And wrestlers really took over in that stage.
00:32:36.000 I feel like from there, it went to a point where...
00:32:41.000 The most well-rounded guys were winning.
00:32:45.000 You look at George St. Pierre.
00:32:47.000 He's not a wrestler, but super well-rounded.
00:32:49.000 Great jiu-jitsu, great wrestling, great striking, good conditioning.
00:32:55.000 The well-rounded guys had the biggest advantage.
00:32:59.000 I think now it's moving to a point where It's almost coming back, and I'll use myself as an example, but you have to be a specialist in one thing where it's like, dude, that one thing is better than anyone in the world.
00:33:14.000 And then everything else has to be elite.
00:33:17.000 It's like Israel Adesanya.
00:33:18.000 He's the best kickboxer, one of the best kickboxers in the world, but he also has...
00:33:24.000 Great takedown defense, and you even see him throw up subs in some of his fights, things like that.
00:33:28.000 Or, you know, you see guys where it's like, dude, you have this one thing, Khabib.
00:33:32.000 This one thing, his grappling is so, like, outrageous.
00:33:36.000 But then everything else is, like, freaking world class.
00:33:39.000 It's like, that's where I think it's getting, you know, now these guys that have one thing that can kind of overwhelm and overpower somebody in a certain area, but everything else is, like...
00:33:50.000 Not as good, but better than average.
00:33:53.000 I definitely think there's a gigantic advantage to being elite in one specific area, whether it's wrestling, for you, or if you look at Alex Pajera, the kickboxing.
00:34:03.000 His kickboxing is so fucking dangerous that every fight starts on the feet.
00:34:09.000 And when you have a guy that's a two-division glory world champion, That just knocks people into other dimensions.
00:34:15.000 And then now this guy is learning takedown defense and all those things.
00:34:19.000 Obviously, he has vulnerabilities.
00:34:21.000 And it's interesting to see, particularly in the Euro Prochaska fight, and then in the fight with Jan Bohovic as well, he's learning how to defend himself on the ground.
00:34:30.000 But it seems like it's limited, right?
00:34:34.000 Like, it doesn't seem like he's very good at takedown defense.
00:34:36.000 He's getting better at it.
00:34:38.000 Doesn't seem like he's very good at getting back up to his feet, but he's getting better at it.
00:34:42.000 But at least now he's good at defending.
00:34:44.000 So if guys take him down, he defends, he survives, he doesn't get completely exhausted.
00:34:50.000 And then next round, he's standing up again.
00:34:53.000 For sure.
00:34:54.000 And the thing, too, is if you look at the matchups, when he fought Jan, Jan had to take him down.
00:35:00.000 He's not going to strike with him the whole time.
00:35:02.000 And he actually gassed himself out in that first round.
00:35:05.000 He had a body triangle for almost five minutes.
00:35:07.000 And I've never seen him look that tired in a fight.
00:35:11.000 And so now these people that maybe don't have that wrestling base, those years and years of reps, they have to fight him a certain way.
00:35:18.000 But he's proficient enough to kind of You know, hold him off.
00:35:21.000 Now he's got the advantage, right?
00:35:23.000 It's like, what are you going to do?
00:35:25.000 That's how I want to develop my style, ideally, is to where when somebody comes out to fight me, to game plan, they're like, alright, well, we obviously don't want to wrestle with him.
00:35:38.000 Dang, he also has knocked a lot of guys out.
00:35:40.000 We don't want to get hit.
00:35:41.000 Oh, wow, he catches every jab.
00:35:43.000 He checks every kick.
00:35:44.000 Are we going to jab with him?
00:35:45.000 Are we going to kick with him?
00:35:47.000 Okay, no.
00:35:48.000 Okay, maybe we'll try to get him tired.
00:35:50.000 I don't get tired.
00:35:51.000 That's the idea, where I want to get to, right?
00:35:54.000 Does that make sense?
00:35:55.000 I think a lot of fighters probably are thinking on a similar wavelength.
00:35:59.000 Nowadays.
00:35:59.000 I'm sure, but you also obviously have the advantage of having that superior grappling base.
00:36:05.000 I just can't say it enough.
00:36:08.000 I think that is the most important base in all of MMA. Yeah, yeah, you know, it definitely is an advantage.
00:36:16.000 I feel like when I very first started in the sport and just started training, figuring stuff out, it was like even more.
00:36:25.000 It was just like because I was only shooting, only trying to hold guys down and stuff.
00:36:29.000 And I was like, okay, I could probably do this to like some of the top guys in the world.
00:36:36.000 I always want to hold on to that.
00:36:38.000 I always want to make sure that...
00:36:39.000 That's why I still...
00:36:40.000 You asked earlier, I still live in State College, Pennsylvania.
00:36:43.000 I'm 10 minutes away from Penn State University.
00:36:46.000 I train there three, four times a week with the best guys in the world wrestling.
00:36:51.000 I think that for me, I could take four weeks, five weeks, and go compete with the best guys in the world in wrestling right now.
00:37:01.000 What's a guy in MMA going to do to me who's never wrestled in his life?
00:37:05.000 He's going to do some sprawls for eight weeks and learn how to stand up?
00:37:09.000 Like, good luck, dude.
00:37:12.000 Please, take these eight weeks and try to wrestle.
00:37:15.000 It's going to hurt you more than it will help you.
00:37:17.000 Right.
00:37:17.000 It'll take away from your time striking and all those other things.
00:37:20.000 Right.
00:37:20.000 That is interesting.
00:37:21.000 It's like, even like an admission from a guy like yourself that is one of the best wrestlers in the world, you would need four weeks at least of real training and just wrestling.
00:37:32.000 Yeah, well...
00:37:32.000 Because you're going to give up something by training MMA as well.
00:37:36.000 You have to, you know.
00:37:38.000 I think that the pace is different.
00:37:41.000 You're in a different stance.
00:37:42.000 You know, I'm not really...
00:37:44.000 I don't have to put myself underneath people like you do in wrestling.
00:37:47.000 You have to get so low to get to a shot.
00:37:50.000 People are upright.
00:37:54.000 When I go train wrestling now, I want to keep myself sharp and keep improving.
00:37:59.000 But I'm really trying to help the college guys and help these guys out, give back, help them improve and stuff.
00:38:05.000 So I'm not trying to be the best wrestler in the world right now.
00:38:08.000 And I'm trying to be the best fighter.
00:38:11.000 So I tailor my training to that.
00:38:13.000 And I think that's an important thing.
00:38:18.000 Some of my coaches say, never forget your wrestling.
00:38:20.000 A lot of guys forget it.
00:38:22.000 But to me, I think I just love the sport.
00:38:25.000 I appreciate it.
00:38:25.000 I want to represent...
00:38:27.000 For the wrestling community on a bigger stage.
00:38:30.000 And so, you know, I'm still very involved in it.
00:38:33.000 But, yeah, at the same time, it's like I'm adjusting my training and kind of fine-tuning it to what I think is best for what I'm, you know, mainly focused on.
00:38:43.000 Is it a lot of trial and error?
00:38:45.000 Like, how do you...
00:38:47.000 Do you have a main MMA coach who structures your training program?
00:38:52.000 Because I would imagine...
00:38:54.000 Well, I should ask you, like, strength and conditioning, skill set acquisition, maintaining wrestling base, like, how do you manage all those very specific things, and how do you know whether or not you're optimizing?
00:39:09.000 Right.
00:39:10.000 You know, a lot of it is nobody's really done it the way that I have.
00:39:14.000 You know, most people, they wrestle in college, maybe they try to make the Olympic team, and now they go to flight, and they move, and they start at an MMA gym, right?
00:39:24.000 What I've done is I've partnered up with Dan Lambert, American Top Team.
00:39:29.000 We built a gym right near Penn State campus.
00:39:32.000 And the idea is that'll be a pipeline for any other wrestlers, specifically Penn State wrestlers who want to come and fight after they're done wrestling, right?
00:39:40.000 So it's a good relationship there.
00:39:42.000 But basically what we've done is I've brought in coaches for jujitsu, for Muay Thai, really high-level guys in their specific disciplines.
00:39:52.000 And so I'm learning from them.
00:39:53.000 I'm learning boxing from my boxing coach.
00:39:57.000 And then for strength conditioning, I use the training lab with Sam Calvita.
00:40:01.000 Oh, great.
00:40:02.000 So I've been using him since I was in college.
00:40:05.000 So he has worked with Penn State wrestling for a long time.
00:40:10.000 He's known one of our coaches for 25 years.
00:40:12.000 So when I started getting serious about my strength conditioning, nutrition, recovery, he was a guy I started using maybe as a junior in college.
00:40:20.000 And so I have a good relationship with him.
00:40:22.000 But for the most part, it's on me to organize it.
00:40:25.000 And kind of see what works best.
00:40:26.000 And I did play around at the beginning, like, alright, how much wrestling am I gonna do?
00:40:30.000 How many times am I gonna lift weights?
00:40:32.000 How many times am I gonna do jiu-jitsu?
00:40:34.000 How many times am I gonna strike?
00:40:35.000 And I'm kind of continuously refining that process.
00:40:39.000 And the idea for me is, I'm the trailblazer.
00:40:42.000 I'm the guy that's the first one to do this.
00:40:45.000 Now all these guys that are coming behind me, my best friend Anthony Kassar, he just won his second pro fight.
00:40:52.000 He's a 205er heavyweight NCAA champ.
00:40:54.000 He started about a year later than me, so now he kind of gets the benefits of me tinkering for that year.
00:41:01.000 And then the guys behind him, they'll get the benefits of us tinkering and figuring stuff out.
00:41:05.000 And we're really trying to build You know, a program.
00:41:09.000 We're trying to build a team that we're going to do things a certain way.
00:41:13.000 And, you know, it's fortunate and unfortunate because I'm the first guy to do it, I'm going to get the credit and I'm going to be probably like, you know, everybody's excited about it and things like that, so I get benefits there.
00:41:26.000 But I do have to, like, take the time and effort to test everything out and figure out what works and what doesn't.
00:41:33.000 And, you know, there's so many variables, so...
00:41:36.000 But I like that.
00:41:37.000 It's fun for me to do that.
00:41:38.000 I would rather do that than just plug in somewhere and just kind of go about it in a very set way.
00:41:46.000 Right, and that team's program might not be perfect for you.
00:41:49.000 Exactly.
00:41:50.000 Which is so interesting because everybody's program is different.
00:41:53.000 Like, Georges St-Pierre famously later in his career stopped doing all strength and conditioning.
00:41:57.000 He said efficiency is more important than anything.
00:42:01.000 And, you know, in his mind it was really just about Specific training for MMA, meaning just sparring, rounds in the bag, those type of things.
00:42:11.000 Yeah, for sure.
00:42:13.000 You know, I think that everybody, you know, if you're a real true professional, you brought up GSP. GSP is the guy I look at.
00:42:22.000 He was the first guy that came into MMA There was kind of a true professional about it who was very organized, even in the media, well-spoken.
00:42:30.000 And the way he trained, the way he committed not only his time training but his lifestyle, I felt like that aligned a lot.
00:42:37.000 That aligns a lot with how I want to do things in a professional manner.
00:42:40.000 And so if you are a true professional, you have to take Ownership of that and take responsibility.
00:42:47.000 If you're not getting what you need, you need to make an adjustment.
00:42:50.000 And now, luckily, I have the freedom to be able to do that.
00:42:52.000 And I'm fortunate that I had the foresight to kind of see that and know, all right, let's look at MMA. There's a lot of people doing a lot of good things out, but it's been a sport for 20 years.
00:43:04.000 And so there's a lot of people that also don't know what's going on, that don't know what they're doing.
00:43:10.000 I look at wrestling.
00:43:11.000 It's one of the oldest sports in the world.
00:43:13.000 There's so many tried and true methods of training and how it works and what's best for you.
00:43:17.000 And not only have I been part of that for 20 years, but I was a part of the most elite organization and really dynasty in wrestling history, you know, with being on the Penn State team.
00:43:30.000 Like my coaches, they started at Penn State in 2009. They have notes for training sessions and recovery days for pretty much every day of the year.
00:43:40.000 Since 2009. So they know what they did.
00:43:42.000 What's today?
00:43:43.000 December 7th, 6th?
00:43:45.000 They know what they did December 7th of 2009, 2010, 2011, all the way until now.
00:43:50.000 And they meet every day to discuss these things.
00:43:52.000 So that's kind of like what I come from and what I know about training and how to organize a program and put things together.
00:43:59.000 They know a lot more than me.
00:44:00.000 I'm just kind of learning these things through osmosis.
00:44:02.000 And now I'm trying to apply them to my career.
00:44:04.000 And again, we're going to continue to refine and get better at them.
00:44:08.000 By the time I'm done, Hopefully I can give this system that I've created and what I've put together to a new generation of guys that are going to do even bigger and better things than me.
00:44:20.000 Hopefully they'll win more than me, make more money than me, be more famous.
00:44:23.000 That's what I hope for those guys that are coming.
00:44:26.000 They can benefit from this.
00:44:27.000 I love hearing stories like that about those notes.
00:44:32.000 I love when you realize, like, oh, no stone unturned.
00:44:36.000 Everything is covered.
00:44:37.000 And that's how you become elite.
00:44:39.000 There's no elite by kind of covering some of the bases.
00:44:43.000 It's covering every fucking base.
00:44:45.000 Everything.
00:44:45.000 From nutrition to recovery to making notes and learning and adjusting to each training session and figuring out what went wrong and what went right and how do you feel and how was the performance.
00:44:57.000 I love hearing shit like that.
00:44:59.000 I love when it's just a full, comprehensive analysis of every single aspect of it, and then you see these insane results, like the Penn State team.
00:45:09.000 Right.
00:45:09.000 Yeah, I love that too.
00:45:12.000 I didn't know it at the time because I was just a high schooler, but that was a big thing that drew me to the program was the culture, how they approach the sport.
00:45:21.000 And everything we're talking about right now too is like, It's not even half of it because we're not even talking about the psychology of it, right?
00:45:27.000 Of what it's like to mentally go out there and perform and do what you need to do.
00:45:32.000 But like you said, leaving no stone unturned, making sure that I've done every single thing that I can do to put myself in the best possible position to have success here— That's what I want to do in fighting.
00:45:47.000 That's what I feel a lot of people don't do.
00:45:50.000 They're tough dudes who have some skills.
00:45:52.000 They're athletic and they're smart and they go out there and they fight.
00:45:55.000 It's like, well, that's not really the way that I look at the sport.
00:46:00.000 I look at it like, like you said, all-encompassing, comprehensive.
00:46:04.000 How can I optimize every single part of my lifestyle to...
00:46:09.000 Now go out there, be comfortable, be confident, and I'm not here to guess.
00:46:14.000 Oh, am I going to win this fight?
00:46:15.000 No.
00:46:16.000 And that's another reason that I'm taking my career the way I am.
00:46:19.000 I fought in July.
00:46:21.000 I'm not fighting again for a while.
00:46:23.000 And people say, oh, you're a prospect.
00:46:26.000 You need to fight this and that.
00:46:27.000 It's like, well...
00:46:28.000 I want to be ready and prepared to the point where, you know, now I'm fighting guys that are, you know, unranked, that people see as low level.
00:46:37.000 Like, nobody's low level in the UFC, but people see as a lower level, and I'm demolishing them, dominating them.
00:46:42.000 By the time I fight a guy in the top 15, top 10, top 5 championship, I'm planning on doing the exact same thing to you, bud, because this is the way that I'm structuring my life.
00:46:51.000 So, if that takes more time for me to improve and get better, Fine, no worries.
00:46:55.000 I'm willing to be disciplined and not be in a rush to do that.
00:47:00.000 Like you said, that just comes from the overarching theme of doing things right, doing things correctly, and always trying to learn and improve and grow and do better and just come at it in a professional, intelligent way.
00:47:17.000 Speaking about your last fight from there until now, that is quite a large amount of time.
00:47:23.000 Is it difficult for you to get fights?
00:47:26.000 Is it difficult for you to get quality opponents?
00:47:28.000 Because, I mean, there was obviously a lot of hype on you before you even got into the UFC. There's a contender show and, you know, watching you compete and everybody knew right away, like, oh, this guy's got something special.
00:47:40.000 And then you got guys who are like, hey, I'm like fucking one and one.
00:47:44.000 I don't want to fight that guy.
00:47:46.000 Fuck that.
00:47:46.000 I need to learn.
00:47:47.000 So there's a lot of guys that are probably going to look at that matchup and go, that is just not right for me at this time.
00:47:52.000 I don't need to get smoked.
00:47:53.000 And have my confidence crushed and realize that the gap is so wide.
00:47:58.000 Realistically, there's some guys that are competing that unless they have some monumental breakthrough or unless they leave their training camp and move into a completely new environment and get totally new coaches and radically restructure their life, they're never going to die.
00:48:13.000 Bridge that gap.
00:48:14.000 They're never gonna bridge it.
00:48:15.000 Right.
00:48:16.000 And so how hard is it for you to get quality opponents and the kind of opponents that you really do need in order to continue to not just you're developing these skills obviously in the gym, but you also need to be implementing them in real fights.
00:48:31.000 Oh, yeah, for sure.
00:48:32.000 You know, it's been so interesting, my journey.
00:48:35.000 I feel like I always try to look for people to compare and see how they did things and maybe take the positives and negatives and apply those to what I'm doing.
00:48:47.000 And there really hasn't been that many people that have done what I've done.
00:48:50.000 I'm 5-0 right now.
00:48:51.000 I started training in August of 2021, MMA. That's hilarious.
00:48:56.000 Yeah, I know.
00:48:58.000 That really is so funny.
00:49:01.000 That is so fucking crazy.
00:49:03.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:49:04.000 I know.
00:49:04.000 Well, Dana White originally was like, wait a while.
00:49:07.000 Yeah.
00:49:07.000 Like, I don't want you to get to be in the UFC that quick.
00:49:09.000 So, bring me around to the point you made.
00:49:12.000 So, what happened was I started training.
00:49:16.000 Four weeks later, I was like, yo, what's...
00:49:19.000 Let's get a fight.
00:49:20.000 So I took an amateur fight.
00:49:22.000 And just some poor dude didn't know what he was doing.
00:49:25.000 He was 1-0 amateur.
00:49:27.000 I was 0-0.
00:49:28.000 And he took the fight.
00:49:29.000 And I think a lot of people...
00:49:30.000 There was a lot of question marks.
00:49:32.000 People were like, alright, I don't know.
00:49:33.000 Let's see.
00:49:34.000 Let's see what's up.
00:49:35.000 And I choked the guy out.
00:49:36.000 And I was like, let's go again.
00:49:38.000 Four weeks later, I fought my second amateur fight.
00:49:40.000 Knocked the dude out cold.
00:49:41.000 And then I was like, alright, well...
00:49:43.000 I wanted to put a show together in my hometown in State College.
00:49:49.000 And so I was working for a few months to get that going.
00:49:52.000 And it just, there was the PA Athletic Commission is working between my management team, the PA Athletic Commission and Penn State.
00:49:59.000 There was just too many moving parts.
00:50:00.000 It was tough.
00:50:01.000 And I was like, I need to fight.
00:50:02.000 So, you know, I could wait like four more months and do this or I could just get a fight.
00:50:06.000 So then I had trained another six months, six, seven months.
00:50:10.000 And I was like, let's do a pro debut.
00:50:12.000 And that was in June of 2022. And so I'm coming out against another poor guy who thought he was going to knock me out or something.
00:50:23.000 And knock him out in 30 seconds on UFC Fight Pass.
00:50:26.000 And it did like the most views in UFC Fight Pass history.
00:50:30.000 Like more than any other promotion.
00:50:32.000 It was like something like three or four million views in the week.
00:50:36.000 And it did a bunch that night.
00:50:38.000 There it is.
00:50:39.000 Yeah, this is it.
00:50:42.000 So this is eight months of training.
00:50:46.000 That's what's crazy is that you're such a good striker so quick.
00:50:51.000 It's really nuts, man.
00:50:52.000 It really is very, very unusual.
00:50:54.000 But I just think...
00:50:56.000 It's got to be the same mindset that allowed you to get a lead at wrestling.
00:50:59.000 You just programmed that into striking.
00:51:01.000 Yeah.
00:51:01.000 That's exactly what it is.
00:51:03.000 On top of good, high-quality coaches and training partners.
00:51:08.000 That's everything.
00:51:09.000 That's everything.
00:51:10.000 And so after this happened, the next morning, UFC, Bellator, 1FC, PFL, boom, boom, boom, call it.
00:51:17.000 Let's do it.
00:51:18.000 Let's do it.
00:51:19.000 And I'm like...
00:51:20.000 What the frick?
00:51:21.000 I'm 1-0 pro.
00:51:23.000 I've been training eight months or whatever, nine months.
00:51:27.000 So was there hesitancy on your part where you're like, look, I'd like to get some more fights, more competition?
00:51:32.000 Because we've seen it before.
00:51:34.000 Pajeda's a great example.
00:51:35.000 He's got a couple fights at the UFC, and then all of a sudden he's fighting for the title.
00:51:39.000 Yeah.
00:51:39.000 Yeah, so my initial plan, like, before any of this happened, was I'm going to get 10 fights in the regional scene, you know, and then I'm going to go UFC, and I'm going to be the champ by, like, 13, 14 fights.
00:51:50.000 Like, that's where the plan was.
00:51:52.000 And then after that, it was like...
00:51:55.000 Everybody kind of knows what's up.
00:51:57.000 Everybody's trying to sign me.
00:51:58.000 And I talked with my manager.
00:52:01.000 And I was like, dude, am I even going to be able to get a fight?
00:52:04.000 Who's going to fight me on these regional scene promotions?
00:52:07.000 Who's going to fight me in any of these?
00:52:09.000 And he's like, I'll be honest with you.
00:52:12.000 Nobody's going to fight you.
00:52:13.000 And I'm like, okay, well, then, you know, in my mind, I was always, I'm going to the UFC. Like, you know, these other organizations, I think they do a good job and stuff, but that's not really me.
00:52:23.000 Like, I'm a UFC guy.
00:52:25.000 So, you know, discuss with the UFC, and they're like, hey, well, you know, we can throw you on contenders.
00:52:30.000 And I'm like, let's do it.
00:52:31.000 And it was a couple months later.
00:52:34.000 So...
00:52:36.000 Now I'm like, it's on.
00:52:37.000 Let's get it rolling.
00:52:38.000 I'm going to fight these Contenders fights.
00:52:40.000 I fight my first fight.
00:52:43.000 Choke the guy out in a minute.
00:52:45.000 Dana's like, let's do another fight.
00:52:46.000 I'm like, perfect.
00:52:46.000 Let's do it.
00:52:47.000 That's great.
00:52:48.000 So then I fight at the last week of Contenders series.
00:52:53.000 And it's actually a crazy story.
00:52:55.000 So...
00:52:56.000 This is going to make me seem like a real dummy, but my gym is like 200 yards away from where I live.
00:53:02.000 And there's a main road that you have to cross to get to it.
00:53:06.000 It's probably like a 40, 45 mile an hour speed limit, but it's not super busy, but it's a little busy.
00:53:11.000 And so I used to, you know what a one wheel is?
00:53:14.000 So I used to ride my one wheel like to and from practice.
00:53:17.000 And I would just do this all the time.
00:53:20.000 And so I'm riding back from training session once and I've got, so I'm barefoot, I've got like a Yeti bottle, I've got my phone and wallet and like my flip-flops in my hand, and I've got no shirt on, and I'm just like, it takes like 25 seconds, so I'm just like, and I'm going on this road, and my buddy pulls behind me, he's leaving practice too, and then I have another car behind me.
00:53:44.000 And I'm like, I don't want to make these people wait.
00:53:47.000 I better pick it up.
00:53:48.000 Normally I'm pretty safe on this thing.
00:53:49.000 I don't really go crazy.
00:53:51.000 So you lean forward to go faster.
00:53:53.000 So I'm leaning forward and I catch the tip of the nose on the asphalt.
00:53:58.000 And I slam into the ground and roll.
00:54:02.000 And my Yeti, I have like a 64-ounce Yeti.
00:54:04.000 It's flying in the air.
00:54:06.000 My shoes, wall, everything's flying in the air.
00:54:08.000 And I hit and rolled.
00:54:09.000 And I just was like, get off the road.
00:54:10.000 You're going to get hit by a car.
00:54:11.000 So I popped up, grabbed my stuff, and got off the road.
00:54:13.000 And my buddy's sitting there in his car, and he's like, And I was like, oh, I just jumped in the car with him.
00:54:20.000 And I'm like, take me home, bro.
00:54:22.000 And he just pulls into my driveway.
00:54:24.000 And he's like, you all right?
00:54:25.000 And I'm like, yeah, I'm good.
00:54:26.000 Like, my shoulder hurts a little bit, but I'm good.
00:54:28.000 And I checked on my app.
00:54:30.000 I was going 23 miles an hour.
00:54:31.000 Oh, Jesus.
00:54:32.000 So I was flying.
00:54:33.000 And then, you know, I was like, I'll be fine.
00:54:36.000 Like, I kind of hurt my shoulder hurts a little bit.
00:54:38.000 And then four hours later, I couldn't move my arm.
00:54:41.000 I was like, I could get up to like here.
00:54:43.000 And that was it.
00:54:44.000 And so then I go get x-ray MRI. I cracked my collarbone.
00:54:48.000 And I had like a separation in my SC joint.
00:54:52.000 Oh, Jesus.
00:54:52.000 And I was like, this was 10 days before I was supposed to fight my second contenders fight.
00:54:58.000 And I was like, Dude, what am I going to do?
00:55:02.000 Like, this is terrible.
00:55:02.000 And so I go to the athletic trainer at Penn State.
00:55:05.000 He's like a magician.
00:55:06.000 He's amazing.
00:55:06.000 He's worked with the wrestling team for 30 years.
00:55:08.000 And he does a lot of like, kind of, he's a more like Eastern philosophy guy.
00:55:12.000 So we're moving energy through it and doing a few different things.
00:55:15.000 And I started to feel a little better, feel a little better, and I'm about to fly out to Vegas, like, the next day, and I'm like, well, it's the day before I'm about to, the two days before I'm about to fly out, I'm like, okay, if I wake up tomorrow and I don't feel significantly better, like, I'm gonna have to pull out of this fight.
00:55:33.000 And so I woke up the next day, and I was like, alright, it feels okay, it felt better.
00:55:37.000 So I hit pads and, like, did a couple things, and I was like, alright, whatever, let's just do it.
00:55:42.000 So let's freaking go into the fight, and I ended up, I knocked that dude down, hit him in a triangle, choke him out, win the fight in whatever, less than a minute, and I'm like, fire it up, and I'm like, let's go, let's do it again, get me in there again in December, I tell Dana and Hunter, and they're like, done.
00:55:59.000 And so then everybody's like, he's fine in December, and I got back home, and I was like...
00:56:02.000 Maybe we held off a little bit.
00:56:05.000 So, uh, then we, we pushed my next fight till March, but I don't ride the one, moral of the story, I don't ride the one wheel anymore.
00:56:10.000 Yeah, fuck those things.
00:56:12.000 Yeah, Jamie broke his ass bone on them hoverboards.
00:56:16.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:56:17.000 Similar.
00:56:17.000 So I don't, I don't do that anymore, but, yeah, I, getting, so, going from regional scene, contender series to UFC, it was like, I kind of went a lot faster than I wanted to, but I, uh, I felt like I wasn't going to be able to get the fights, and the UFC can get me the fights.
00:56:38.000 And so now, in the past, really since whatever that was of 2022, so the last year and a half, really over a year span, I fought five times professionally.
00:56:49.000 And then I was thinking, I can keep going at this pace.
00:56:53.000 I can fight five more times in the next year.
00:56:57.000 I can only fight so many guys until I'm moving up into the top 15, top 10. I've only trained MMA a little over two years, so is that really the best move for me?
00:57:09.000 Do I want to be fighting a top 15 guy in the world?
00:57:12.000 At 5-0 on two years of experience?
00:57:15.000 Or do I want to, you know, take control while I can, slow it down, learn, develop, get better?
00:57:20.000 Like, I'm still a prospect, so, you know, these type of things are things that are on my mind, things that, you know, people that I'm close with, coaches, have, you know, just helped me with, because, like, I want to get there, right?
00:57:31.000 Like, I have goals and a plan, but there's also, I think, a better way to go about it that I'm trying to be, you know, considerate of and manage.
00:57:42.000 Yeah, well, I think you're doing a great job in that regard.
00:57:45.000 And I also think, I'm very happy that you decided to go with the UFC. Because no disrespect to the other organizations, there's very good fighters in the other organizations, but I often feel like they're wasting their career.
00:57:56.000 Because I see these elite fighters that are fighting in Bellator and PFL. I'm like, hey guys, no one's watching.
00:58:02.000 I know.
00:58:03.000 You know, I mean, some people are watching.
00:58:04.000 You're getting a little bit of a fan base.
00:58:06.000 I don't want to disrespect.
00:58:08.000 Right.
00:58:08.000 But there's a reality.
00:58:09.000 And that, you know, there's the XFL, there's the CFL, and then there's the fucking NFL. Yep.
00:58:17.000 Are you really playing football?
00:58:18.000 You know what I'm saying?
00:58:19.000 That's how I feel.
00:58:20.000 That's just how it is, man.
00:58:21.000 If you're the UFC champ, you're the fucking man.
00:58:24.000 Exactly.
00:58:25.000 If you're the Bellator champ, I respect the shit out of those guys.
00:58:28.000 I love them.
00:58:28.000 Absolutely.
00:58:29.000 I mean, guys like Johnny Elblen, same thing.
00:58:31.000 Yeah, I train with Johnny all the time.
00:58:33.000 He's a freaking animal.
00:58:34.000 He's a monster.
00:58:34.000 To me, Johnny's probably the best middleweight on the planet right now.
00:58:38.000 I really wish that guy would come to the UFC. Yeah, you know, I think that, you know, To me, when I was making that decision, it really wasn't a decision because I knew I was like, I'm going to be in the UFC. That was always what I wanted to do.
00:58:53.000 And I come from Penn State.
00:58:55.000 We haven't had a match that wasn't sold out in, I don't even know, like a decade.
00:58:59.000 Every match is in our small venue rec hall, 7,000 people right on top of you, sold out in tents.
00:59:05.000 We go to Bryce Jordan, which is our bigger venue, 16,000 people sold out.
00:59:09.000 We go to Carver-Hawkeye, 20,000 people sold out.
00:59:12.000 We go to Gallagher-Iba, Oklahoma State, 20,000 people.
00:59:15.000 It's like that was every weekend for me in college.
00:59:17.000 I love that.
00:59:18.000 That's like freaking let's get it.
00:59:22.000 You get a good atmosphere in these other organizations, but there's nothing like a UFC situation.
00:59:28.000 The production, everything that goes into it, the eyes, that's where I need to be competing.
00:59:33.000 The promotion.
00:59:35.000 Yeah, it's incredible.
00:59:36.000 If you're a UFC champion, the promotion is just unparalleled.
00:59:39.000 There's nothing like it.
00:59:40.000 Everybody knows who you are when you're the UFC champion.
00:59:44.000 I've already felt that a lot with...
00:59:46.000 I think that it's important for people to understand...
00:59:50.000 Maybe these other organizations will pay you a little more, but the marketing dollars that the UFC puts into a guy just by...
00:59:59.000 The way they push them or where they put you on the cards, this and that.
01:00:04.000 That's worth so much.
01:00:07.000 You look at a guy, a good example you said in the NFL. Look at an NFL running back or NFL quarterback.
01:00:12.000 A lot of these guys get big endorsement deals from Bose or Nike or whatever.
01:00:18.000 You could be just as good if you're not playing the NFL. You're not getting that.
01:00:21.000 If you're not in the UFC, all these marketing deals, all these endorsements, those aren't really going to be available to you.
01:00:27.000 It's the platform.
01:00:28.000 So I think people talk about fighter pay, this, that, whatever.
01:00:31.000 It's like, I'm in the boat of, it's on you to get yours.
01:00:36.000 I'm never going to sit around and beg somebody else for a check.
01:00:40.000 Pay me more money.
01:00:41.000 It's like, dude, go earn it.
01:00:43.000 Go get it.
01:00:43.000 I feel like what you get paid, that's between you and the company and take care of what you need to take care of.
01:00:55.000 I'm going to take care of me.
01:00:58.000 But there's a lot of other parts of the equation that people don't factor in, in my opinion.
01:01:04.000 Yeah, there's definitely parts that people don't factor in.
01:01:07.000 And there's also, like, this feeling of being in the UFC that everybody who wants to be a fighter dreams of.
01:01:14.000 Oh, yeah.
01:01:14.000 You want to be there when Bruce Buffer is right in front of you going, It's time!
01:01:20.000 Yeah.
01:01:22.000 Holy shit!
01:01:24.000 It was so funny.
01:01:26.000 After I signed my UFC contract and knew I was going to fight, the two things I always wanted was I wanted to have Bruce Buffer announce me and I wanted to do a post-fight interview with you.
01:01:37.000 I was like, yo, these two things, those are bucket list things for me.
01:01:40.000 It's so cool.
01:01:42.000 It's so fun.
01:01:42.000 And the way they do it, the energy in Las Vegas when there's a big fight, it's unbelievable.
01:01:49.000 There's nothing like it.
01:01:50.000 There is nothing like it.
01:01:50.000 Nothing like it.
01:01:51.000 And that's where I want to be.
01:01:53.000 If I could fight 50 times a year, I would do it.
01:01:56.000 If that was feasible, because wrestling, in college I would wrestle 50 matches in a year.
01:02:02.000 But you can't do that with fights, but if I could, I just love that.
01:02:06.000 I would do it every weekend.
01:02:08.000 It's so much fun.
01:02:09.000 I went to the UFC in Austin last weekend, and it's the rare moment where I get to watch Right.
01:02:14.000 And just sit there.
01:02:15.000 Oh, yeah.
01:02:15.000 Oh, dude.
01:02:16.000 Probably, yeah.
01:02:17.000 No headphones on.
01:02:18.000 Just appreciate the crowd.
01:02:19.000 They're like, the fucking energy is crazy.
01:02:22.000 Yeah.
01:02:22.000 It's like you're on a drug just sitting there.
01:02:24.000 Dude, were you at UFC Miami earlier this year?
01:02:28.000 How crazy was it when Trump walked out?
01:02:31.000 Insane.
01:02:32.000 I've never experienced that.
01:02:33.000 Insane.
01:02:34.000 I was like, whoa.
01:02:34.000 It was more crazy when he walked out in Madison Square Garden.
01:02:37.000 Really?
01:02:38.000 Yeah.
01:02:38.000 Jeez.
01:02:39.000 The Madison Square Garden one, the last fight, was fucking bananas.
01:02:43.000 It's unbelievable.
01:02:44.000 I've never heard a crowd like that.
01:02:45.000 Over a minute of people screaming at the top of their lungs as he's walking in.
01:02:50.000 Nuts.
01:02:50.000 This country is fed up.
01:02:52.000 Yeah.
01:02:52.000 This is a fed up country.
01:02:55.000 You know, the mainstream media can say all the shit they want, and they're trying, but the people aren't buying it.
01:03:00.000 No.
01:03:01.000 And the perfect example right there is...
01:03:05.000 You know, 20,000 people or whatever, like, losing their minds when the dude's walking to the cage.
01:03:10.000 It's like, there's no fighter that gets that.
01:03:12.000 But yeah, the country, it's like, you can tell.
01:03:15.000 You just talk to people or see what's going on.
01:03:16.000 It's like, you could tell.
01:03:18.000 Well, you know, there's people that voted for Biden that are doing it now.
01:03:22.000 They're like, what did I do?
01:03:24.000 What did I choose?
01:03:25.000 How is this guy?
01:03:26.000 Yeah, you just can't listen to an interview where he's saying some of the stuff he says that just makes no sense at all.
01:03:34.000 It's like you can't listen to those interviews and feel like you made a good decision.
01:03:38.000 I don't know how you could.
01:03:39.000 Did you hear what he said yesterday or a couple days ago?
01:03:42.000 He was talking about the Revolutionary War.
01:03:44.000 He's like, one of the reasons why we lost the Revolutionary War, one of the problems with the Revolutionary War was they didn't have enough airports.
01:03:50.000 Yeah.
01:03:52.000 Have you seen that?
01:03:53.000 I saw that.
01:03:54.000 Like, what the hell?
01:03:56.000 Like, pull him.
01:03:57.000 This is crazy.
01:03:59.000 If you were, if you had any other job and you were talking like that, they would go, hey, you're done.
01:04:05.000 If you talk like that to a doctor at your medical exam to fight, they'd be like, okay, like, obviously they're not fighting.
01:04:13.000 You'd also, here's eight weeks of being helped out by a professional.
01:04:18.000 Right.
01:04:19.000 You might not ever do anything again.
01:04:21.000 No.
01:04:21.000 It's one of the wildest things ever.
01:04:24.000 It's insane.
01:04:24.000 Yeah.
01:04:25.000 And the media gaslighting you to protect.
01:04:27.000 It's just people are so afraid of Trump being in office and Republicans being in office.
01:04:31.000 You know, it's funny because...
01:04:33.000 Right after my last fight, he was cage-side with Dana.
01:04:37.000 And then I got back home and he invited me out to Bedminster in Jersey and was like, come golf with me.
01:04:45.000 Coolest freaking dude, man.
01:04:47.000 He was like, we didn't talk about politics.
01:04:50.000 We didn't talk about anything.
01:04:51.000 When I first got there, rolled up, I mean, there's 30 Secret Service members.
01:04:55.000 You know, everybody's doing their thing.
01:04:57.000 And he did a few, like...
01:04:59.000 We kind of worked with one of his secretaries to make some announcements and do some stuff, but then we just golfed for four hours, rode in the cart with him, and he was the coolest guy, so with it, so smart, asking me about fighting, we were talking about boxing, we talked about football, we talked about golf, and he was so sharp and with it, and it was me, this is the craziest thing, I grew up in a town of 5,000 people in Wyoming.
01:05:26.000 Now I'm fighting on the UFC and then with Trump golfing.
01:05:31.000 It's me, Trump, O.J. Anderson, who's an NFL running back, Super Bowl MVP, and LT. That's the foursome.
01:05:39.000 And I'm like, what the heck is going on here?
01:05:42.000 That's got to feel surreal.
01:05:43.000 It was super surreal.
01:05:46.000 Nothing really.
01:05:47.000 He was such a bro and so cool and so with it.
01:05:49.000 I think he's 70s, upper 70s, and couldn't believe how smart and sharp the guy was.
01:05:55.000 I was like, wow, this is...
01:05:56.000 Bizarre, right?
01:05:57.000 Right, like super with it.
01:05:58.000 He's the only guy that went through four years in the White House and didn't seem to age.
01:06:02.000 No.
01:06:02.000 Everybody gets in that White House and they just fall apart.
01:06:06.000 Their hair gets gray, they look tired all the time.
01:06:08.000 They just like the weight of the world, which it literally is.
01:06:11.000 Right.
01:06:11.000 It's on their shoulders.
01:06:12.000 I think he just...
01:06:13.000 He loves it.
01:06:14.000 It's like a fucking duck to water.
01:06:16.000 Yeah, he's like, what are you going to say?
01:06:18.000 Come on.
01:06:18.000 Oh, this was the craziest thing.
01:06:20.000 So him and LT were playing like a thousand bucks a hole or something.
01:06:23.000 And he smoked a...
01:06:25.000 Trump...
01:06:27.000 I golf with him.
01:06:28.000 The dude's an amazing golfer.
01:06:29.000 I couldn't believe how good he was.
01:06:31.000 Every fairway, right down the middle, hit every green, making all those putts.
01:06:35.000 He won the first nine pretty easy, and then the last nine, it was going in the 18th hole...
01:06:43.000 Him and LT were tied or something.
01:06:45.000 It all came down to this last hole.
01:06:47.000 And they both hit great drives.
01:06:49.000 And LT hit a good approach shot.
01:06:52.000 And Trump gets up there.
01:06:54.000 He's probably like 150 yards from the green.
01:06:56.000 And he sets up.
01:06:59.000 Just stripes it straight at the pin.
01:07:03.000 Ball's like in the middle of the arc, like not even coming down yet.
01:07:06.000 He turns around, doesn't even watch it land, walks right back to the cart, sits down.
01:07:11.000 And the cat is like, nice shot, Mr. President.
01:07:13.000 And I was like, damn, that was clutch.
01:07:16.000 And he looks at me, he goes, don't you want your present to be clutch?
01:07:19.000 LAUGHTER And I was like, for sure, man.
01:07:22.000 And he hit it two feet from the pin and tapped it in.
01:07:26.000 And I was like, jeez.
01:07:28.000 That's pretty slick.
01:07:29.000 It was slick.
01:07:29.000 I was like, it was just cool, dude, though.
01:07:31.000 It was funny.
01:07:32.000 It's a weird time because there's people in this country that want to think he's Hitler.
01:07:35.000 I know.
01:07:36.000 It's very strange.
01:07:37.000 You couldn't convince me otherwise just hanging out with a guy.
01:07:39.000 I'm like, man.
01:07:40.000 Well, you know, it's just the media narrative.
01:07:42.000 I mean, so many people were fed this lie that the Russia collusion.
01:07:45.000 Was this the video you were talking about?
01:07:47.000 Let me see what this one says.
01:07:48.000 I don't think it is.
01:07:52.000 By the way, the same stable genius that said the biggest problem we had in the Revolutionary War is we didn't have enough airport.
01:08:04.000 Yeah, that's it.
01:08:05.000 Just for the record.
01:08:08.000 Is that fake?
01:08:09.000 It's not fake, but he was referencing Trump saying that.
01:08:14.000 Here's what Trump saying it in 2019. Donald Trump said something about that.
01:08:18.000 He didn't say Jesus.
01:08:19.000 He said a stable genius, and that's where the transcription...
01:08:22.000 Let me hear what it says.
01:08:23.000 What did he say?
01:08:24.000 In June of 1775, the Continental Congress created a unified army out of the revolutionary forces encamped around Boston and New York, and named after the great George Washington Commander-in-Chief.
01:08:41.000 The Continental Army suffered a bitter winter of Valley Forge, found glory across the waters of the Delaware, and seized victory from Cornwallis of Yorktown.
01:08:53.000 Our army manned the airport.
01:08:55.000 It ran the ramparts.
01:08:58.000 It took over the airports.
01:08:59.000 It did everything it had to do.
01:09:01.000 Oh, okay.
01:09:02.000 Yeah.
01:09:03.000 So he fucked up.
01:09:04.000 Yeah, he did.
01:09:05.000 But I feel like...
01:09:05.000 You can tell, too, it sounds a little different.
01:09:09.000 You can tell he messed up his words, but...
01:09:11.000 Yeah.
01:09:12.000 Yeah.
01:09:12.000 He was just...
01:09:13.000 I don't know.
01:09:13.000 Took over the airports.
01:09:14.000 Well, that's the thing about media these days.
01:09:16.000 It's like...
01:09:17.000 Right.
01:09:17.000 You gotta look into it.
01:09:19.000 Yeah.
01:09:19.000 Yeah.
01:09:20.000 But, I mean, that's probably the most coherent thing Biden's ever fucked up.
01:09:23.000 Like, some of the things...
01:09:25.000 I got hairy legs.
01:09:27.000 Yeah, oh my god, there's so many of them.
01:09:29.000 Yeah, seriously.
01:09:29.000 I mean, it's unfortunate because the guy's older and he really shouldn't be in that position.
01:09:33.000 Right.
01:09:33.000 I mean, if he was your dad, you'd feel terrible.
01:09:36.000 You'd be like, Dad, you gotta stop.
01:09:37.000 Like, you shouldn't be doing this.
01:09:39.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:09:40.000 No, it's weird.
01:09:41.000 It's...
01:09:41.000 What's your tour?
01:09:45.000 Strange Time?
01:09:46.000 Is it Strange Time?
01:09:46.000 Yeah.
01:09:48.000 These are the strangest times.
01:09:51.000 There's a really interesting clip.
01:09:53.000 See if you can go to that clip on my Twitter page.
01:09:57.000 I retweeted it.
01:09:58.000 There's a guy named Terence McKenna who's this like psychedelic bard slash philosopher who said a lot of very interesting shit.
01:10:05.000 He died.
01:10:07.000 Listen, just listen to what he said.
01:10:09.000 Because he's literally, I think this was 1998 that he said this.
01:10:14.000 And literally he called what's happening.
01:10:18.000 The level of contradiction is going to rise excruciatingly, even beyond the excruciating present levels of contradiction.
01:10:29.000 So I think it's just going to get weirder and weirder and weirder, and finally it's going to be so weird that people are going to have to talk about how weird it is.
01:10:41.000 And at that point, novelty theory can come out of the woods because eventually people are going to say, what the hell is going on?
01:10:51.000 It's just too nuts.
01:10:53.000 It's not enough to say it's nuts.
01:10:55.000 You have to explain why it's so nuts.
01:10:58.000 I look for the invention of artificial life, the cloning of human beings, possible contact with extraterrestrials, possible human immortality, and at the same time, appalling acts of brutality, genocide,
01:11:15.000 race-baiting, homophobia, famine, starvation, because the systems which are in place to keep the world Sane are utterly inadequate to the forces that have been unleashed.
01:11:33.000 The collapse of the socialist world, the rise of the Internet, these are changes so immense, nobody could imagine them ever happening.
01:11:45.000 And now that they have happened, nobody even bothers to mention what a big deal it is.
01:11:51.000 The mushroom said to me once, it said, this is what it's like when a species prepares to depart for the stars.
01:11:59.000 You don't depart for the stars under calm and orderly conditions.
01:12:05.000 It's a fire in a madhouse.
01:12:07.000 And that's what we have, the fire in the madhouse at the end of time.
01:12:11.000 This is what it's like when a species prepares to move on to the next dimension.
01:12:17.000 The entire destiny of all life on the planet is tied up in this.
01:12:22.000 We are not acting for ourselves or from ourselves.
01:12:26.000 We happen to be the point species on a transformation that will affect every living organism on this planet at its conclusion.
01:12:38.000 That guy called it.
01:12:39.000 So smart.
01:12:40.000 In 98. He said so many things, too.
01:12:43.000 Talking about AI, talking about extraterrestrials, talking about people trying to basically beat human mortality.
01:12:51.000 It's like, wow.
01:12:53.000 It's all happening right now.
01:12:54.000 It is, yeah.
01:12:55.000 25 years before he...
01:12:57.000 He was on point.
01:12:59.000 What a smart guy.
01:12:59.000 I'm going to look into him more.
01:13:00.000 Oh, he had a lot of wild theories.
01:13:02.000 Yeah.
01:13:03.000 That stuff, I love...
01:13:05.000 Well, one thing that I love about your podcast is I love listening, hearing, learning about all of those types of things, man.
01:13:12.000 It's like I listen to so many of your episodes for that specific reason because that stuff is...
01:13:19.000 It's so important and interesting and it'd be easy to not think about it and just go about your daily life, but I don't know.
01:13:26.000 I feel like I have to think about it.
01:13:27.000 I think we all have to think about it.
01:13:29.000 Life is more strange now than it's ever been in the entire history of human beings.
01:13:36.000 And getting stranger every day, like with this chat GPT shit and AI, like kids are using chat GPT to write papers and study their homework, just changing a few words about it.
01:13:49.000 And you get – people are firing their lawyers just using chat GPT to – I've seen this.
01:13:56.000 I'm going to give some people some game right now, but I'll go into chat GBT and you have to ask it the right questions, but I'll say, hey, formulate a game plan for this type of fighter.
01:14:06.000 I'm a wrestler at middleweight, this, that, blah, blah, blah.
01:14:09.000 And now I'm going to fight this guy.
01:14:10.000 Give me the perfect game plan for him.
01:14:12.000 And it'll do that?
01:14:14.000 It's not like, boom, easy.
01:14:16.000 You kind of have to prod it a little bit, but it'll give you some good information.
01:14:24.000 Initially, it'll basically say, well, I'm not able to do this, formulate this and that, but I get a little more vague.
01:14:33.000 So then I would say, formulate a game plan for a wrestler against a striker in an MMA fight under these rules.
01:14:38.000 And then, you know, then I would ask it more detailed questions from there.
01:14:42.000 And it's given me good information.
01:14:44.000 So, I mean, we'll see where it can go.
01:14:47.000 In five years, it'll probably be able to download video of somebody and tell you every one of their weaknesses.
01:14:52.000 I'm sure it will.
01:14:53.000 Yeah.
01:14:53.000 I don't even think we're five years away from that.
01:14:55.000 Probably not, yeah.
01:14:56.000 When is ChatGPT5 supposed to come out, Jamie?
01:15:00.000 I don't think that they've...
01:15:01.000 Sorry, I about to sneeze.
01:15:02.000 I haven't fully announced that yet.
01:15:04.000 Even like four you still have to pay for.
01:15:05.000 And they have that new thing now, which was a big problem, which I don't think has been fully explained.
01:15:09.000 The Sam Altman thing?
01:15:10.000 Yeah, the Q-Star.
01:15:12.000 I don't know what the fuck that even means.
01:15:14.000 Well, here's the speculation.
01:15:15.000 The speculation is that AI has become sentient.
01:15:17.000 Sure.
01:15:18.000 Yeah, yeah, I know.
01:15:18.000 And that artificial general AI is now like an intelligent life force.
01:15:24.000 Yeah, it was funny because I've heard you say before, like, we're going to integrate with it and become part of it together.
01:15:31.000 And the other day, my wrestling coach, so every day, he, Coach Kale Sanderson, he'll get up in front of the team and talk and, you know, tell parable or this and that.
01:15:41.000 And then our director of ops needed the kids to go on their phones for something.
01:15:46.000 And he was like, all right, everybody get your phones.
01:15:50.000 It was something for tickets or something like that, for the matches.
01:15:53.000 Pull out your phones.
01:15:53.000 And he was like, of course, every single one of you.
01:15:56.000 It was like 30 kids on the team all had their phones on them.
01:15:59.000 We're about to practice.
01:16:00.000 We have a little set of bleachers that they sit in.
01:16:04.000 But every single kid on the team had their phone on them.
01:16:07.000 I feel like I missed it a little bit.
01:16:09.000 I'm a little older than that.
01:16:11.000 I'm 27, and the generation that I see below me, these dudes never are without their phone.
01:16:19.000 It's incredible.
01:16:20.000 I'm still good.
01:16:21.000 I leave in my locker or whatever.
01:16:23.000 I don't even have my phone on me right now.
01:16:24.000 But some people, they can't.
01:16:27.000 I don't know.
01:16:28.000 They're attached to the hip.
01:16:29.000 Yeah.
01:16:29.000 So Elon was talking about that.
01:16:31.000 He said, we're essentially cyborgs already.
01:16:32.000 Yeah.
01:16:33.000 It's just not in your body.
01:16:34.000 Right.
01:16:35.000 Which, with Neuralink, it's like, that's going.
01:16:38.000 It's happening.
01:16:38.000 Uh-huh.
01:16:39.000 Yeah, have you seen that thing that they use that you put on your head and you can answer questions with it?
01:16:46.000 No.
01:16:46.000 What is this, Jim?
01:16:47.000 I tried to get you at GBT to give me a fight plan to fight Bo Nickel.
01:16:50.000 Right.
01:16:51.000 It says just, you know, give up.
01:16:54.000 You cannot provide assistance or guidance on any activities that involve harm, violence, or illegal actions.
01:17:00.000 Planning or participating in a fight outside of a regulated and sanctioned sporting event is not only dangerous, but also against the law.
01:17:07.000 But I tricked it.
01:17:09.000 So I asked how to train for a sanctioned MMA match in Nevada under UFC rules against a professional fighter with a skill set equal to a wrestler such as Bo Nickel.
01:17:18.000 Here we go.
01:17:20.000 Choose a reputable gym.
01:17:22.000 Work on striking, grappling skills, good luck.
01:17:24.000 Yeah.
01:17:25.000 Given Bo Nickel's wrestling background, focus on your wrestling skills to defend takedowns and initiate your own.
01:17:31.000 Oh, ChatGPT, you don't know how to fight.
01:17:33.000 You don't know jack shit, bitch.
01:17:35.000 That's the thing.
01:17:36.000 It tries to give you something, but if you can keep asking it questions, then it'll get you better information.
01:17:42.000 Well, it's kind of answering the questions.
01:17:45.000 The problem is that's not possible.
01:17:48.000 Like what we talked about earlier, in four weeks, you're not going to be able to figure out how to take you down.
01:17:54.000 No.
01:17:55.000 That's literally not possible.
01:17:56.000 Yeah, but I think that if it could figure out a way to integrate a video where it could study every single second of fight film that a person has and now points out, all right, every time...
01:18:08.000 Every time you throw a low kick, they step to the left or something weird.
01:18:12.000 But then it's like, okay, well, that's valuable.
01:18:14.000 So it'll get there.
01:18:16.000 Well, I think if you can show fights, like say if you were supposed to fight a guy, let's say Sean Strickland, and then you take Sean Strickland, who's the UFC middleweight champion, and you put all of his fights...
01:18:26.000 And you put them into ChatGPT.
01:18:29.000 And then you take all of your fights and put that into ChatGPT.
01:18:33.000 And then it says, okay, this is where I believe you have an advantage and this is something that you can do, that you can take advantage of when you're looking at specific things that he does.
01:18:43.000 He has tics and patterns.
01:18:45.000 There's some guys that don't seem to have...
01:18:48.000 San Hagen's one of the best examples of a guy who doesn't seem to have any patterns.
01:18:52.000 He is so good at mixing things up.
01:18:55.000 Yeah, he really is.
01:18:56.000 I think that he's as good as it gets mixing it up, but I still believe that, for me at least, with my...
01:19:09.000 My attitude towards it.
01:19:12.000 If I were to fight Corey Sandhagen, I would watch, and I would start 10 weeks out.
01:19:17.000 I'd watch every single one of his fights, every second of the fight, break it down.
01:19:20.000 I'd probably spend 20 hours watching film, and then I would take a little time, and then I'd do it again.
01:19:26.000 And then I'd take a little time, and then I'd do it again.
01:19:27.000 I'd probably do it three times throughout a camp.
01:19:29.000 You're going to figure out some stuff.
01:19:31.000 Like, certain things.
01:19:32.000 Like, I was listening to a John Jones clip.
01:19:34.000 It was just a soundbite of him talking about how he analyzes film, which, to me, I think he's probably one of the best game planners in the sport right now, just with the way he breaks guys down.
01:19:48.000 But he was talking about something that was really interesting.
01:19:50.000 He was like, I even focus on how they flinch.
01:19:53.000 Like, if I throw a feint at them, like, how are they flinching?
01:19:56.000 Like, I've always thought about How does the guy react to certain techniques defensively?
01:20:02.000 But he takes it to a whole other level of, alright, if I feint a jab, does the guy flinch the same every time?
01:20:09.000 Does he try to catch it, or does he slip one way or the other?
01:20:12.000 You can really break it down.
01:20:15.000 To me, everybody's just a puzzle to solve.
01:20:19.000 A guy like Sandhagen would obviously be more difficult.
01:20:22.000 He doesn't repeat as much, but everybody has something.
01:20:26.000 I have something, everybody does.
01:20:28.000 Yeah, and I would imagine a computer, something like ChatGPT with artificial intelligence is going to be able to see that better than anybody will.
01:20:34.000 I would imagine, yeah.
01:20:35.000 And it could probably do it instantaneously versus having to spend 40 hours trying to figure it out.
01:20:41.000 I think we're the last natural people.
01:20:43.000 I really do.
01:20:44.000 I think this is the last generation of natural people.
01:20:47.000 Yeah.
01:20:48.000 People that have no connection to the outside world other than through electronics that you hold.
01:20:54.000 Yeah.
01:20:54.000 And I think in the future, that's just not going to be the case.
01:20:57.000 We're going to be a new version of human beings.
01:20:59.000 Well, even if you look at...
01:21:01.000 So, I'm a little old school, like...
01:21:05.000 I love being outside.
01:21:06.000 I like the outdoors.
01:21:07.000 I like going out, you know, five miles into the mountains and just, I got my bow and let's figure it out.
01:21:13.000 Like, let's figure out if I can make this happen.
01:21:16.000 And, uh, so I think about something like that and it's so pure and valuable to me, that real human experience.
01:21:24.000 And there's a lot of, obviously hunting is a great example, but there's a lot of different examples that, you know, you can have that in fighting as a good example, but It would be nice to have a GPS in my brain.
01:21:35.000 Have Onyx in my brain.
01:21:38.000 Mark your coordinates.
01:21:40.000 Or something where I could play a perfect elk bugle and a perfect cow call to where it doesn't have human error.
01:21:50.000 Yeah, but there's something fun about creating it yourself.
01:21:53.000 It is, yeah.
01:21:54.000 I guess we're going to gain something and we're going to lose something.
01:21:57.000 Just like I'm sure we lost something by having the ability to fly across the country instead of taking a fucking wagon train.
01:22:05.000 Well, there's so many things just health-wise that I think have a huge impact.
01:22:09.000 Like look at hydrogenated oils, right?
01:22:11.000 Like hydrogenated oils, you know, vegetables and canola.
01:22:15.000 That stuff is like motor oil.
01:22:17.000 And now we use it for food as a preservative.
01:22:19.000 Like, I don't think the people that initially did that understood the health repercussions of it.
01:22:24.000 The same way, like, having something in your brain that's putting out 10,000 X EMFs.
01:22:31.000 Like, there's going to be other problems to solve.
01:22:34.000 For sure.
01:22:35.000 And, you know, maybe it's...
01:22:39.000 Nothing's going to be wholly good or wholly bad, but it's a mixture of it.
01:22:44.000 Like you said, it's kind of just the way it's going.
01:22:46.000 It's the reality of it.
01:22:48.000 It doesn't seem like it's going to be able to be stopped.
01:22:50.000 It just seems like human beings have this insatiable thirst for innovation.
01:22:55.000 Everybody wants the latest, greatest thing, and everything is constantly moving forward.
01:22:59.000 I think it's hard for us to see it because we're in it, but I think we're...
01:23:07.000 You ever see where they take like a bowl almost and they spin like a marble around it and it goes around the circle and then as it gets lower it goes faster and faster and faster and faster.
01:23:20.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:23:21.000 That's where we are.
01:23:22.000 Yeah, exponential, right?
01:23:23.000 The exponential increase.
01:23:24.000 Up here is when they invented the wheel.
01:23:26.000 Yeah.
01:23:26.000 Right?
01:23:28.000 AGI, Artificial General Intelligence.
01:23:31.000 It's like spinning at an insane rate.
01:23:33.000 And we're in the middle of it as biological human beings that are used to a certain timeline.
01:23:38.000 We're used to getting up in the morning, going to work, doing our things.
01:23:42.000 We have timelines, and we think of the world as being kind of static.
01:23:45.000 Linear.
01:23:46.000 Right, but it's not.
01:23:47.000 No.
01:23:48.000 Well, I think that...
01:23:49.000 So I've read this before, and I think there was a study that backed it, but humans, we can't understand things that naturally...
01:23:59.000 We can maybe be taught, but our natural understanding of something like compound interest, we don't get that.
01:24:06.000 That's why a lot of people think, All right, I'm not going to invest and put $5,000 or $7,000 into a Roth IRA. What's that going to do for me?
01:24:15.000 But in reality, in 30 years, it's going to be $5 million or something like that.
01:24:19.000 So we don't have a natural inclination to think that way.
01:24:22.000 And so I feel like with what you just said, how many...
01:24:30.000 A hundred years ago, imagine you showed somebody an iPhone.
01:24:36.000 Not even a hundred years ago.
01:24:38.000 Imagine 20 years ago you showed somebody an iPhone.
01:24:41.000 That's such a short amount of time.
01:24:44.000 That's incredible.
01:24:45.000 Because if you look at, let's say, zero to 1,500 Not that crazy of a difference.
01:24:54.000 Right.
01:24:54.000 Or even like 0 to 1800, like until the Industrial Revolution, really.
01:24:58.000 Right.
01:24:58.000 Okay, we're still getting around on boats and wagons and things like that.
01:25:03.000 All right, but that wouldn't really blow your mind too much.
01:25:06.000 Like, oh, they got a nicer boat or crazier wagon.
01:25:10.000 It's like, okay, now I see a train.
01:25:12.000 Okay, now I see an automobile.
01:25:13.000 Now I see a plane.
01:25:15.000 Okay, now we got an iPhone.
01:25:16.000 It's like, whoa.
01:25:17.000 Now I can FaceTime somebody in New Zealand.
01:25:19.000 It's like...
01:25:19.000 What is happening?
01:25:21.000 What's it going to be in?
01:25:23.000 Like you said, days go slow, years go fast.
01:25:26.000 In five years, the technology is already so different.
01:25:30.000 It's going to be the wildest.
01:25:34.000 The end is this battle where these enormous companies are trying to control the population.
01:25:40.000 Because when people protest about things and people aren't on board with things, it fucks up their ability to make money.
01:25:46.000 So they're trying to get as much control over what people say and do as possible.
01:25:50.000 And the governments are stepping in and trying to get as much say and control over these internet companies as possible.
01:25:57.000 And you see this integration of the FBI and Twitter with the Twitter files.
01:26:02.000 It's like, boy, there's a battle going on.
01:26:04.000 Stuff scares me, man.
01:26:06.000 It should.
01:26:06.000 Part of it, like, my initial reaction is...
01:26:10.000 I gotta do whatever I can do to help and make this positive and not let evil people take over.
01:26:19.000 And then part of me is like, Dude, you're like a 27-year-old MMA fighter.
01:26:26.000 Settle down.
01:26:26.000 Yeah, just chill out.
01:26:28.000 Yeah, exactly.
01:26:30.000 So, you know, it's like a balance, right?
01:26:32.000 I mean, we all have our day-to-day life, family and things going on and, you know, got to get an oil change on your car and things like that.
01:26:40.000 And then it's like...
01:26:41.000 Alright, well there's also pretty significant evidence that we have some extraterrestrials flying around Earth.
01:26:50.000 There's pretty much explicit evidence that certain people and organizations are trying to mass manipulate the entire population and make it...
01:27:02.000 I forget what they call it, but basically whatever the thing where they're making all the world...
01:27:08.000 I don't know.
01:27:09.000 Do you know what I'm talking about?
01:27:11.000 What's the organization?
01:27:12.000 One World Order?
01:27:13.000 World Economic Forum?
01:27:14.000 World Economic Forum, and they're talking about the...
01:27:16.000 I don't remember what their whole plan was, but basically like...
01:27:19.000 It's global control.
01:27:20.000 Yeah, the control, right?
01:27:21.000 Yeah, it's spooky.
01:27:22.000 And when it comes from a guy like Klaus Schwab who dresses like a villain from Star Wars and talks like a Nazi.
01:27:28.000 How many more people not pay attention to that?
01:27:29.000 He seems like so on the nose.
01:27:33.000 Imagine the compliance.
01:27:33.000 Is that a real person?
01:27:34.000 Imagine the compliance.
01:27:36.000 That was actually Borla from Pfizer.
01:27:38.000 Oh, it wasn't the same guy?
01:27:39.000 No, Borla from Pfizer was talking about a pill that you would take Like, say if you took a pill, some sort of pharmaceutical pill, and the pill has a signal that it sends to people that it shows that you took it.
01:27:54.000 And then it's like, imagine the compliance.
01:27:57.000 Like, hey man, fuck you.
01:27:58.000 Yeah, no thanks.
01:27:59.000 I'm good.
01:28:01.000 You're lucky you're still alive, buddy, with that kind of talk.
01:28:04.000 Yeah, seriously, no, that's insane.
01:28:05.000 You're a real threat to freedom with that kind of talk.
01:28:07.000 Like, obviously, your drugs have not gone through the rigorous tests that you claim they have.
01:28:13.000 Because the side effects that people experience from a lot of your fucking drugs are dangerous as shit.
01:28:18.000 And if you're fast-tracking drugs and then imagine the compliance on these fast-tracking drugs with, by the way, the crazy thing when it comes to things like vaccines, there's no repercussions.
01:28:29.000 You can't even sue.
01:28:30.000 No.
01:28:30.000 And it's like, okay, let's say it really does go down and they get in trouble and they made $11 billion.
01:28:37.000 Okay, they get fined $5 billion.
01:28:38.000 Exactly.
01:28:38.000 Net positive on their mind.
01:28:40.000 They're like, I don't give a crap.
01:28:41.000 That's exactly what happened with Vioxx.
01:28:43.000 Right, yeah.
01:28:44.000 Which, you know, Guy Metzger took that shit and Guy Metzger had a stroke.
01:28:49.000 Do you remember Guy Massacre from back in the day?
01:28:50.000 Yeah.
01:28:51.000 He had a fucking stroke from Vioxx.
01:28:53.000 Jeez.
01:28:53.000 Yeah.
01:28:53.000 And he was in his 30s.
01:28:55.000 I'm so skeptical and I feel very glad that I'm the age I am because I feel like people a little older than me, they got that heavy and they didn't really see a lot of the repercussions.
01:29:06.000 They were the ones that got the negative ends of it.
01:29:08.000 And I think a lot of people, at least Maybe their parents were a little more awake to that type of thing, but for sure it's huge now.
01:29:22.000 I see on Instagram, every single person I see is buying 10 acres, homesteading, getting chickens.
01:29:32.000 Drinking raw milk, eating beef liver, that's the trend now.
01:29:37.000 People are starting to see, I'm not going to freaking eat McDonald's and take these drugs and do this crap.
01:29:43.000 I'm out.
01:29:44.000 Well, that was one of the craziest things about that interview that I had with Peter Hotez.
01:29:48.000 He was telling everybody's got to get vaccinated and take these medications.
01:29:50.000 What are you doing for your body?
01:29:52.000 Do you work out?
01:29:54.000 What do you eat?
01:29:55.000 And he eats junk food and he doesn't work out.
01:29:57.000 This is crazy.
01:29:58.000 You think you're going to medicate your way to health?
01:30:00.000 That's never happened.
01:30:01.000 That's not how it works, man.
01:30:02.000 It doesn't work at all.
01:30:03.000 It takes effort.
01:30:05.000 And the thing is, too, if you just stay on top of it a little bit, you're going to be good.
01:30:11.000 I'm not worried about getting the flu.
01:30:15.000 I'm not worried about my wife getting the flu.
01:30:17.000 Dude, I never get sick.
01:30:18.000 I don't know about you, but maybe once a year I have a little sniffle or something.
01:30:23.000 But other than that, I feel very freaking good.
01:30:26.000 And I'm taking care of myself.
01:30:27.000 And all the people that I'm around...
01:30:29.000 Everybody is like a professional athlete or a coach who's still very active competing.
01:30:34.000 It's like, we're all like that.
01:30:36.000 But that's why it was so crazy when they're mandating it for the NFL. Like, what the fuck are you talking about?
01:30:42.000 These guys aren't even going to feel COVID. Dude, yeah.
01:30:45.000 To me, it's a weird thing because it got people, it tugged at their heartstrings so much.
01:30:51.000 Oh, I don't want to kill my grandmother.
01:30:53.000 I understand that.
01:30:55.000 We don't want people that are at risk to be sick.
01:30:58.000 We don't want those people sick regardless.
01:31:00.000 If COVID never happened, you don't want those people to get sick anyways.
01:31:04.000 But why is it all of a sudden this whole thing, everybody's freaking out when it's Nobody's dying of this.
01:31:11.000 It was a mass psychology experiment.
01:31:15.000 It really was.
01:31:16.000 Unfortunately, they learned a lot.
01:31:18.000 They learned a lot about how quickly people roll over.
01:31:21.000 Well, I hope that there are more people now, too, that feel...
01:31:27.000 More skeptical and more inclined to ask questions and feel like they can just make a decision what's best for them based on the information rather than the emotional response, right?
01:31:43.000 So many people got with the emotion of it, and they didn't actually look into it.
01:31:49.000 And I was glad that, you know, I feel like you set a good example and people that you're around of getting the information out there.
01:31:57.000 It's like, I don't really care what...
01:31:59.000 You want to think, like, this is the right info.
01:32:02.000 This is the truth.
01:32:04.000 And that's what people should know.
01:32:05.000 They should just know the facts.
01:32:06.000 If this is good for you, great.
01:32:07.000 If this is terrible for you, okay, cool.
01:32:10.000 Now we know.
01:32:10.000 And pay very close attention to people that are fighting against the truth and fighting against that information.
01:32:16.000 Because what's interesting about now, and one of the things that McKenna talked about with the internet, is that I don't think anybody ever anticipated things like podcasts, like the Huberman Show or Peter Attia Show or Lex Friedman Show, where you're getting unbiased information, scientific information that is not connected to any official information.
01:32:40.000 Government agency or news source where they're vetting all that and telling you what you can and can't say.
01:32:46.000 And when you do say something that goes against their narrative, they fucking come for you hard.
01:32:52.000 It's wild.
01:32:53.000 But what they don't understand is...
01:32:55.000 People don't believe them.
01:32:57.000 Look at what's happened to CNN. CNN's falling apart.
01:33:00.000 Nobody believes them.
01:33:01.000 Nobody believes them.
01:33:02.000 Oh, you're propaganda.
01:33:03.000 You guys are full of shit.
01:33:04.000 You don't give a fuck about the truth.
01:33:05.000 And people started to realize, too, it's like, okay, if somebody can make money off something, if they're getting paid for this and that, You can't trust that information.
01:33:14.000 This is their livelihood on the line.
01:33:18.000 Take everything they say with a grain of salt.
01:33:21.000 You've got to get information from people who have no financial interest in it.
01:33:28.000 Otherwise, you don't know.
01:33:29.000 You have no idea.
01:33:31.000 But it is a great time though to get information because you're getting, like I talked about Huberman who's so fucking fantastic, you're getting unbiased source information from a legitimate scientist from Stanford Who's telling you, this works, and this is why it works, and these specific nutrients are responsible for these specific things that happen in your body.
01:33:52.000 This was never available before, and now it's available for millions and millions of people.
01:33:58.000 I mean, the Huberman's podcast is gigantic, and people are listening to it every day.
01:34:02.000 They're changing their life.
01:34:03.000 They're doing cold plunges and saunas, and they're eating well.
01:34:06.000 And they are eating healthy foods.
01:34:08.000 They are avoiding seed oils.
01:34:10.000 And people are seeing these immense physical benefits from it, health benefits from it.
01:34:15.000 Yeah, it's super exciting, you know, as somebody who I feel like, as an athlete, I kind of had to be a little ahead of the curve on that, just because I wanted to take care of myself.
01:34:25.000 And so, you know, The cold plunge, the sauna, the nutrition, what's good for you, what's bad for you, understanding certain things.
01:34:34.000 My mom and dad are doing cold plunge every morning now.
01:34:39.000 I'm like, let's go.
01:34:40.000 That's what I'm talking about.
01:34:41.000 My parents have done sauna that don't do cold plunge.
01:34:44.000 I'm like, come on.
01:34:45.000 Hey, come on.
01:34:46.000 I go, I'll get you one.
01:34:47.000 We'll put it at 50 degrees.
01:34:48.000 Just do a little bit.
01:34:49.000 Yeah, just do it for 30 seconds.
01:34:50.000 So I've got them thinking about it.
01:34:52.000 I go, listen, you'll feel happier.
01:34:54.000 You'll feel happier.
01:34:55.000 It'll make you feel better.
01:34:56.000 I love, so my, me and my buddy Anthony, we do.
01:34:59.000 So for us, our schedule, Wednesday is just recovery day.
01:35:03.000 So we'll go in, we'll do some contrast.
01:35:05.000 We're tinkering with it a little bit.
01:35:07.000 We're gonna start doing some Huberman protocols with sauna cold plunge and stuff.
01:35:11.000 The best ever is, we do five minute rounds on the cold plunge, so we go a little long.
01:35:20.000 The best ever is we do like 15 or so minutes of, we call it shiver time after.
01:35:25.000 So we'll go cold, just shiver and freaking shake.
01:35:28.000 And then you let your body kind of come back and regulate and get warm.
01:35:32.000 And then we go in a hot shower and I'm like, I feel so good.
01:35:37.000 I know, right?
01:35:38.000 You can't beat this.
01:35:39.000 This is amazing.
01:35:40.000 It's a euphoric feeling.
01:35:41.000 If you could get a pill that would make you feel that good, everybody would be taking it.
01:35:44.000 Your doctor would be like, Bo, what we need to give you is happy.
01:35:47.000 Take this happy.
01:35:49.000 Take 50 milligrams of happy in the morning, and then 50 milligrams of happy at dinner.
01:35:53.000 Yeah.
01:35:53.000 And you'll be happy.
01:35:54.000 Yeah.
01:35:55.000 Well, I think they have that.
01:35:56.000 It's like freaking heroin and stuff, right?
01:35:58.000 I think that's different.
01:35:59.000 Maybe.
01:35:59.000 That makes you crash your car and fight with cops.
01:36:03.000 What Cold Plunge does is it's just, without any negative side effects, it elevates your mood, ramps up your dopamine...
01:36:10.000 It ramps up your dopamine by 200%, and it lasts for hours.
01:36:14.000 Hours.
01:36:15.000 I feel great when I do that.
01:36:16.000 I mean, I've been doing it for a long time, so now it's like, but I look forward to it still.
01:36:20.000 Every week, I'm like, nice, let's go.
01:36:22.000 Yeah, I look forward to it, too, until I'm right about to get in.
01:36:25.000 That's the worst.
01:36:27.000 The pussy part of my brain is like, maybe you should find a good song to listen to.
01:36:31.000 I like putting it off.
01:36:33.000 My buddy Anthony, the guy I mentioned, he's such a savage.
01:36:39.000 We go in first, just hop in, and he'll go up to his chin.
01:36:43.000 We have the jets and stuff, so it's freaking going.
01:36:46.000 Do you have a blue cube?
01:36:47.000 No, we just have, so at Penn State, we have like a recovery room, and there's just a hot tub and a cold tub.
01:36:54.000 So they're like, think like a regular hot tub in the ground with crazy jets, but it's 40 degrees or whatever, 38 degrees.
01:37:01.000 And so it's kind of similar, I think.
01:37:04.000 Yeah, very similar.
01:37:04.000 But less compact, so probably a little less intense.
01:37:08.000 So we'll sit in that.
01:37:10.000 And I used to go to my belly button or to my chest, and he would go to his chin every time.
01:37:16.000 And I would just be looking at him and I'm like, I'm a pussy.
01:37:19.000 It was so good.
01:37:20.000 Now I go up to my neck.
01:37:22.000 But it's good that we do it together because sometimes I'm like, ah.
01:37:26.000 I don't want to do it.
01:37:27.000 Yesterday I had to climb under sheets of ice.
01:37:30.000 I had to get under it.
01:37:32.000 Because at my house I have a morosco.
01:37:35.000 And the morosco is 34 degrees.
01:37:37.000 And what happens is on cold days, like yesterday morning it was like 34 degrees out.
01:37:41.000 So when I got in it, all the ice from the bottom forms and then floats up to the top.
01:37:47.000 So I've got this three inch thick slabs of ice.
01:37:51.000 And I had to climb in and lift the ice up and slide under it.
01:37:55.000 So there's literally like these huge sheets of ice that are three inches thick.
01:38:00.000 They're right in front of my face.
01:38:02.000 I'm like, fuckity fuck, fuck, fuck.
01:38:05.000 But you also feel cool that you can do it.
01:38:07.000 I love the fact that I can talk myself into doing it every...
01:38:10.000 I did it right before I came here.
01:38:11.000 I do it every goddamn day.
01:38:13.000 And when I do it every day...
01:38:15.000 I do it before workouts.
01:38:17.000 That's my thing now.
01:38:18.000 I do it first thing in the morning.
01:38:20.000 And there's been some studies...
01:38:22.000 Was it out of Japan that they had those studies that showed it ramped up testosterone?
01:38:27.000 Pretty significantly.
01:38:29.000 Significant increase in testosterone when you do...
01:38:32.000 The cold plunge pre-workout.
01:38:34.000 So I do the cold plunge pre-workout.
01:38:36.000 And what I do is I have a series of bodyweight exercises that I do that warm me up.
01:38:39.000 Bodyweight squats, push-ups.
01:38:40.000 So you don't go hot after?
01:38:41.000 You just warm me up from working out?
01:38:43.000 No.
01:38:43.000 I don't do hot until after I'm done training.
01:38:46.000 I like to do hot with elevated heart rate.
01:38:48.000 I like to do hot right after I do rounds in the bag.
01:38:51.000 I like to finish my workout with Tabatas.
01:38:53.000 So either I finish my workout with Tabatas on an Airdyne bike or a heavy bag.
01:38:58.000 And then once I do that, then I like to go in when I'm at 90 beats per second, or per minute rather, and I go right in when my heart's already pounding.
01:39:09.000 And then I get in that 185 degrees and just throw some water on the rocks and fucking suck it up.
01:39:15.000 That's a wrestling style.
01:39:16.000 Yeah, you have to do it that way.
01:39:18.000 Look, if you want it to be effective, it's got to be difficult.
01:39:21.000 I mean, when you're dealing with cold and heat exposure, it can't be comfortable.
01:39:26.000 It's got to suck a fat dick, and that's the only way to do it.
01:39:29.000 It's the only way.
01:39:29.000 I love stuff like that that's just...
01:39:32.000 It's just hard that I know other people aren't willing to do.
01:39:35.000 It makes me feel like I'm really living life.
01:39:41.000 Because if everything's just comfortable and easy and you're never really that stressed and your body's never put under any pressure, you're just kind of floating and you're good.
01:39:51.000 And I'm like, I would friggin' blow my brains out if I had to live that way.
01:39:57.000 I can't do it.
01:39:57.000 I gotta do hard things all the time.
01:39:59.000 And I think that a lot of people are starting to Get more into that where their priority isn't comfort.
01:40:09.000 I think for a long time in human history, the priority was just stay alive and if you can be a little comfortable, then that's great.
01:40:19.000 But they were in circumstances where 80% of their life was really difficult already.
01:40:24.000 So when they got that comfort, they enjoyed it.
01:40:26.000 When you can sit on a couch in front of the fire after you've just been fucking busting your ass all day, exhausted, that's when comfort is appreciated and valuable.
01:40:35.000 And it means something to you.
01:40:36.000 And when you got that, when humans were able to get that easily through cars and grocery stores and planes and things where everything was kind of cell phones at your hand, that stuff is such a distraction from being the best version of yourself.
01:40:52.000 Exactly.
01:40:53.000 And that's really, I think, one of the only ways that a person is happy.
01:40:56.000 If they are being the best version of themselves.
01:40:58.000 And that takes work.
01:41:00.000 My friend Michael Easter, who's been a guest on this podcast before, wrote a book called The Comfort Crisis.
01:41:05.000 And it's all about that.
01:41:07.000 This bizarre place that we are where so many people are just seeking comfort and taking the path of least resistance and trying to do things the easiest way possible.
01:41:16.000 And people have never been more depressed, never been more unhappy, never been more unsatisfied, more lost.
01:41:21.000 More existential crisis and it's got to be connected to that because I think the human body and the human mind have Requirements in terms of you need tasks and you need difficult things to do and if you don't do those things There's a contrast you don't enjoy the easy moments unless you have hard moments.
01:41:40.000 Oh for sure Yeah, I mean I know for a fact that's true because If I were to just go eat an In-N-Out cheeseburger, it would be nice.
01:41:48.000 It would be good.
01:41:49.000 But after I go through a full fight camp and I cut 20 pounds and then I go win a fight and then I head to In-N-Out and have that cheeseburger, I'm like, hell yeah.
01:42:02.000 This is so good.
01:42:04.000 But I don't want too much of that.
01:42:06.000 I don't want too much of the dopamine from other things or whatever it is because...
01:42:12.000 Then it's just not as good.
01:42:14.000 When I was in high school, probably my senior high school, we had homecoming and prom.
01:42:23.000 I think I drank a little bit there.
01:42:26.000 Then I told myself, let's lock it up.
01:42:29.000 I'm going to go five years of college.
01:42:30.000 I'm not having a sip of alcohol.
01:42:33.000 Nothing.
01:42:35.000 So I went all five years.
01:42:36.000 Didn't go to bars, didn't party, no alcohol, nothing.
01:42:39.000 Just straight up focus and that was it.
01:42:43.000 And then I remember my buddy and I, Anthony, the guy I keep bringing up, we both won national titles our senior year and the next week we went out and we had a freaking time.
01:42:53.000 It was amazing.
01:42:55.000 You earned it.
01:42:56.000 You really earned it.
01:42:57.000 And now I'm back on that grind where I'm like, nothing.
01:43:00.000 I'm not doing...
01:43:01.000 No alcohol.
01:43:04.000 Go to a wedding.
01:43:05.000 I want a cigar.
01:43:06.000 Sorry, bud.
01:43:06.000 No cigar.
01:43:07.000 None of that stuff.
01:43:09.000 And I love being able to do that.
01:43:12.000 A lot of times I'll talk in my head like, damn, it'd be nice.
01:43:15.000 I'm eating this fat ribeye, have a glass of wine and wind down.
01:43:19.000 And I'm like, No, no.
01:43:21.000 You need to earn this, right?
01:43:23.000 I like giving myself those little edges where I know I'm sacrificing something.
01:43:28.000 Yeah, I mean, that's what makes a champion.
01:43:30.000 Yeah, it's fun too.
01:43:32.000 Hey, I wanted to talk to you about Sam Calavita.
01:43:34.000 I'm very fascinated by that guy because I've seen some of the footage of the training sessions that they put on in his garage with TJ Dillashaw.
01:43:43.000 Juan Archuleta and a lot of those guys that go down there and train with him.
01:43:47.000 And it just seems like he's got very unusual strength and conditioning approaches.
01:43:53.000 Yeah, he's the man.
01:43:55.000 Coach Cal, I don't even like to talk about the garage because it's like PTSD, like seriously.
01:44:04.000 I feel like the trauma that I've lived in my life has been through, you know, I've been very fortunate, so I haven't been through any real trauma, but in my mind the real trauma is like Losing at competitions and these crazy hard training sessions and the garage really, dude.
01:44:20.000 It's like, bro, he kills us every time.
01:44:22.000 And it's interesting that it is just like a two-car garage.
01:44:25.000 So, yeah, you just roll up to his house.
01:44:27.000 Pull up the video of Sam Calavita at the garage.
01:44:30.000 Yeah.
01:44:31.000 He's got everything just kind of organized and stacked in there.
01:44:35.000 And you've got world-class fighters that are training with this guy in this fucking garage.
01:44:42.000 Mm-hmm.
01:44:43.000 Hey, just let it play.
01:44:44.000 Yeah, he's a different breed of human being.
01:44:48.000 Coach Cal, you should have him on.
01:44:49.000 I would love to.
01:44:51.000 He's literally the best guy in the world.
01:44:53.000 Coach Cal, let's do it.
01:44:54.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:44:55.000 I'll talk to him about it, too.
01:44:57.000 Yeah, show some of the footage of the actual training.
01:45:01.000 But it's a very humble little place.
01:45:05.000 Yep.
01:45:05.000 It's not big at all.
01:45:06.000 Just do the work.
01:45:07.000 There's TJ before he had to go through massive shoulder surgery.
01:45:11.000 Yeah.
01:45:12.000 I feel terrible for that guy.
01:45:13.000 I know.
01:45:14.000 No, rough.
01:45:14.000 Well, I knew that his super spinatuses had been torn on both shoulders early in his career.
01:45:21.000 And I think that the hard part is some guys are a little too tough for their own good.
01:45:25.000 Like with Coach Cal...
01:45:28.000 You got to be very...
01:45:30.000 You got to communicate with them.
01:45:32.000 Back up so we can see that garage again.
01:45:35.000 Because it's kind of crazy.
01:45:37.000 It's kind of crazy that this is one of the most respected strength and conditioning establishments in the world.
01:45:43.000 And it's a normal suburban home with a two-car garage.
01:45:48.000 And that is where all these people go to train with one of the best strength and conditioning coaches in the world.
01:45:56.000 Yeah, so last time I was down there, he's like, hey, you want to get a workout in?
01:46:03.000 I was doing a bunch of testing and stuff for baseline for my VO2 and all different types of things.
01:46:08.000 And he's like, hey, Bo, you want to go get a workout in?
01:46:11.000 We'll go down to the beach.
01:46:12.000 It'll be fun.
01:46:13.000 We do some sand workouts and stuff.
01:46:16.000 It's not that crazy.
01:46:17.000 It's like a fun one.
01:46:18.000 I'm like...
01:46:19.000 All right, yeah, yeah, let's do it.
01:46:20.000 He's like, okay, meet my house in 45 minutes.
01:46:22.000 And he's very, like, so soft-spoken.
01:46:24.000 And I'm like, okay, yeah, no problem, let's do it.
01:46:26.000 And I'm solo, so it's, like, just me.
01:46:28.000 And, which, I don't know, I think it makes it worse.
01:46:31.000 Because when you're with people, it's like, you know they're doing it, too.
01:46:34.000 Right, right.
01:46:35.000 And so I show up, and he's got his garage door open, and he's got, like, the big-ass, you know, 70 to 120-pound med balls set out and, like, all this stuff.
01:46:45.000 And I'm like...
01:46:46.000 What's up, coach?
01:46:47.000 I was like, oh, we're going to go to the beach.
01:46:49.000 He's like, oh, no, I changed my mind.
01:46:50.000 We're just going to do it.
01:46:50.000 I'm like, you.
01:46:52.000 Son of a bitch.
01:46:52.000 You got me, bro.
01:46:53.000 He literally destroyed me, dude.
01:46:56.000 He always does this thing, too, where It goes 0-100 at the beginning.
01:47:02.000 It's not too much to where you're going to get injured or anything, but the workout will be like, alright, hop on this BOSU ball, and I'm going to throw this 70-pound med ball at you as hard as I can.
01:47:10.000 You're going to catch it and throw it back to me, and we're just going to freaking get after it.
01:47:13.000 Or hold on to this 50-pound med ball and hop backwards up this hill.
01:47:17.000 It's like, start going, go, go.
01:47:19.000 And you're just like, oh, go, go, go.
01:47:21.000 And you'll go for...
01:47:23.000 Like an hour or, you know, hour and 15 minutes doing whatever he says.
01:47:27.000 And he's like, all right, good.
01:47:28.000 Warm-up's done.
01:47:29.000 Now let's, you know, let's, let's turn.
01:47:30.000 And dude, he's literally- Warm-up's done.
01:47:32.000 Bro, I'm not kidding.
01:47:33.000 Hour and 15 minutes of hell and that's the warm-up?
01:47:36.000 Yeah.
01:47:36.000 So I'm trying to think like of, I don't want to give away like his stuff, but, uh, so like, so, so I did that one workout.
01:47:44.000 I did that for basically like an hour, just heavy med ball stuff.
01:47:48.000 And then, um, We did a bunch of, what was it?
01:47:54.000 We did some heavy lifts after that.
01:47:57.000 And then from there, he gets his sled out.
01:47:59.000 And he's like, alright, we're going to push the sled.
01:48:01.000 And he doesn't tell you how far you're going to go or anything.
01:48:04.000 And so we just start pushing the sled.
01:48:07.000 And so we go all the way up the hill and around the corner.
01:48:11.000 So you see this road right behind him?
01:48:13.000 So we go up that road all the way around the corner.
01:48:15.000 And it's me and Anthony.
01:48:17.000 We're going back and forth on the sled.
01:48:20.000 It's like, push till you fail, push till you fail.
01:48:22.000 And we probably did it 60 times each, just to get up around this corner.
01:48:25.000 And we're like, oh, we're done.
01:48:28.000 And then he's like, all right, turn around.
01:48:29.000 Now we're going to do pull.
01:48:30.000 I'm like, what the fuck?
01:48:32.000 Like, come on.
01:48:33.000 So then we pulled it all the way back.
01:48:35.000 And then I'm like, all right, finally, we're done.
01:48:38.000 And he goes, okay, bike time.
01:48:40.000 Hop on the bike.
01:48:41.000 And this is like two hours and 30 minutes in.
01:48:43.000 And I'm like, Jesus, okay.
01:48:44.000 Is there too much work, though?
01:48:45.000 So I think that when we live in Pennsylvania, right?
01:48:49.000 So we're not there every day.
01:48:51.000 So when we go out there, he likes to stick it to us a little bit.
01:48:54.000 He's like, let's see if you're tough enough for the garage type thing.
01:48:57.000 I'm like, coach, I've been working with you for six years.
01:49:00.000 I think I'm kind of tough.
01:49:04.000 But whenever we go out there, he'll give us the business a little bit.
01:49:08.000 I can imagine.
01:49:09.000 But is there a concern, though, that that would require too much recovery time if it's not a regular part of your routine?
01:49:15.000 I think that...
01:49:19.000 If it's just a one-time thing, a lot of times it's not...
01:49:22.000 We're traveling out there to get testing done, things like that.
01:49:26.000 When we're doing our actual program, it's back home in Pennsylvania.
01:49:30.000 So then we'll get maybe one workout with him out in Cali.
01:49:32.000 So he's like, just freaking hammer us.
01:49:36.000 Let's go.
01:49:37.000 And then, all right, now you've got a few days.
01:49:39.000 Travel back home.
01:49:40.000 You're rested.
01:49:41.000 Go get to your normal workout.
01:49:43.000 Our normal workouts aren't that crazy.
01:49:45.000 Yeah.
01:49:47.000 But what is the benefit of like that long of a training session other than mental?
01:49:52.000 I think it's mental.
01:49:53.000 And it's like afterwards.
01:49:55.000 So you can't even really be, you know, after a good workout, you're like, I feel good.
01:50:00.000 I think that it's just seeing how far you can push yourself.
01:50:03.000 Like, all right, where can I get?
01:50:05.000 And then let's go further.
01:50:06.000 Let's go further.
01:50:07.000 Let's go further.
01:50:07.000 Let's like just...
01:50:08.000 See where you can go.
01:50:09.000 Because I don't feel like physically, it's not a physical benefit thing.
01:50:13.000 And a lot of times, too, he's teaching us a lot of new things that we're implementing in the program.
01:50:18.000 So he might do three or four different things that are different days for us, but we have to learn them and how to do the exercises there, and we only have one day to do it.
01:50:29.000 So now it's like we're doing all of this in one, whereas now I'll go back home and this will be split up.
01:50:34.000 So he's trying to teach us stuff as well.
01:50:36.000 But it's more just like, hey man, you want to work with me?
01:50:39.000 Let's see if you're tough.
01:50:40.000 Do you think you're a tough guy?
01:50:41.000 Like, all right, we'll see.
01:50:42.000 When you have these very brutal training sessions, are you using heart rate monitors?
01:50:48.000 Are you monitoring your heart rate variability?
01:50:50.000 Are you monitoring your recovery rate, your resting heart rate to make sure that you're not overtraining?
01:50:55.000 Are you...
01:50:56.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:50:56.000 Everything's monitored.
01:50:57.000 Yeah, so he has a program.
01:50:58.000 He has an app.
01:50:59.000 And anybody can use it, actually, which is pretty cool.
01:51:01.000 So I think it's just Training Lab app.
01:51:04.000 And you get a heart rate monitor from him.
01:51:06.000 And so for me, when I'm in camp and training, I keep my heart rate and all that information gets sent to him.
01:51:14.000 So I can look at it if I want.
01:51:15.000 But he's the one that's analyzing it and looking at it and making sure that everything's good.
01:51:20.000 Yeah.
01:51:21.000 It's very open dialogue.
01:51:23.000 A big thing in combat sports and wrestling and stuff is you don't really say, like, I'm kind of feeling, I'm kind of tired.
01:51:31.000 You just tough it out.
01:51:32.000 But if you're a real professional, you need to be in communication and say certain things.
01:51:38.000 Okay, so a good example.
01:51:40.000 A couple camps ago, we upped my overall weekly volume as the camp goes on.
01:51:48.000 And I got to a point where I was pretty friggin tired feeling it.
01:51:52.000 And I actually broke out in herpes because I was stressed.
01:51:55.000 My body was stressed.
01:51:56.000 And he was like, all right, well, now we found your limit.
01:51:58.000 So now our overall volume for the week, this is kind of where we stop.
01:52:02.000 So we know what you can do.
01:52:04.000 And so there's a lot of analyzing, a lot of science and algorithms and different things that he utilizes.
01:52:10.000 And fortunately for me, I don't have to learn all those things.
01:52:13.000 He's the expert.
01:52:14.000 So I just trust him.
01:52:16.000 Yeah, well, that's great.
01:52:17.000 That's definitely a great thing to have.
01:52:19.000 And it's amazing that he's got this app that he can monitor when you're not even there.
01:52:23.000 Yeah.
01:52:24.000 No, it's huge because obviously being in different places and stuff, and I don't want to guess.
01:52:29.000 I don't want to guess whether or not I'm ready to go or whether or not I'm doing everything in an optimal way.
01:52:36.000 I want to know for a fact.
01:52:38.000 And that's why we do hair analysis for minerals and tissue and things like that.
01:52:44.000 That's why we test our VO2s.
01:52:47.000 That's why we test our crossover points and our resting metabolic rates and things like this.
01:52:52.000 That's why we do all those things because I'm not interested in guessing.
01:52:55.000 I'm not interested in kind of feeling like I've done everything right.
01:52:58.000 I want to know.
01:52:59.000 Right, right, right.
01:53:00.000 How do you, because you're saying you essentially organize everything yourself when you're back at home.
01:53:05.000 How do you decide, like, when to do strength and conditioning, when to do skill acquisition, when to do specific drills?
01:53:14.000 So, because I have trained so much and so long and because my dad was a coach, so my dad was always putting programs together for his teams, understanding Peaking, understanding how to periodize, understanding when we want to have tough matches, when we want to push ourselves.
01:53:31.000 That was something I was always around.
01:53:33.000 And then coming into Penn State, it was like that on steroids.
01:53:36.000 And so I think a lot of it is just learned and absorbed from what I've been around.
01:53:43.000 And just seeing a typical schedule of when our coaches have had us do certain things and when we've had recovery days and stuff.
01:53:52.000 So it's not something that I've really had to go find.
01:53:57.000 It's just been ingrained in me since I was five.
01:53:59.000 And I had a good example with my dad because he coached...
01:54:03.000 Tons and tons of high school state champions, state championship teams, and guys who went on to compete in college and do big things.
01:54:11.000 I got that solid idea of what it takes to organize a program very young.
01:54:18.000 Like I said, when I got to college, it was like, okay, here's a new level.
01:54:21.000 Then I started working with Coach Cal.
01:54:23.000 Boom, new level.
01:54:24.000 And now I'm always kind of looking for things to up that, to do better, to improve, to add in.
01:54:31.000 Or things that maybe aren't serving me as much anymore and we kind of do away.
01:54:34.000 So it's just something that's on my mind.
01:54:36.000 That's my job.
01:54:37.000 My job is to take care of myself.
01:54:39.000 This is my profession.
01:54:40.000 Okay, I want to choose this path.
01:54:43.000 Now you've got to take all of the responsibility that comes with that And be a professional.
01:54:49.000 So that's kind of how I feel like I've been able to organize it the way I have.
01:54:54.000 And when you organize these training sessions, how do you organize recovery?
01:54:59.000 Do you organize it based on the data that you're getting from the app and from your heart rate monitor?
01:55:04.000 How are you doing that?
01:55:06.000 Or is it just like a A thing that you do every day?
01:55:09.000 I have a weekly schedule.
01:55:10.000 So everything's scheduled out for the week.
01:55:12.000 And typically the weeks are very...
01:55:15.000 It's like a similar base, right?
01:55:17.000 So like Monday I'll get two sessions.
01:55:19.000 Tuesday I'll get two sessions.
01:55:22.000 Wednesday, recovery.
01:55:23.000 I'm off.
01:55:25.000 Thursday, two sessions.
01:55:27.000 Friday, one.
01:55:27.000 Saturday, one.
01:55:28.000 Sunday, off.
01:55:29.000 And those sessions are all different, right?
01:55:32.000 Monday, typically, the morning is like striking, afternoon wrestling.
01:55:38.000 Tuesday, morning spar, afternoon lift.
01:55:41.000 Off Wednesday.
01:55:42.000 Thursday morning, grappling.
01:55:44.000 Afternoon, light wrestling.
01:55:46.000 Friday, my heavier spar day.
01:55:48.000 Saturday, lift.
01:55:48.000 Sunday, off.
01:55:49.000 So you always like to take two days off a week?
01:55:52.000 That's the standard, yeah.
01:55:53.000 That's for me what I feel like is the right move.
01:55:56.000 And I think people are doing too much, honestly.
01:55:59.000 People are going every day, twice a day, and it's like...
01:56:02.000 Not really, to me, manageable, reasonable, and I think they're overtrained.
01:56:07.000 How did you come to those conclusions?
01:56:09.000 Was it through data or was it through trial and error?
01:56:12.000 Well, that two days off comes from Coach Cal.
01:56:15.000 Yeah, that's from him and all of his data and his trial and error, and also, like, From Penn State, from our program, how we've run things and stuff.
01:56:25.000 So that was a standard for me as soon as I got to college.
01:56:28.000 Two days.
01:56:29.000 And do you take those days off?
01:56:31.000 Are you watching tape?
01:56:33.000 Are you studying things?
01:56:35.000 Yeah, so Wednesday is more of an active recovery.
01:56:38.000 So I'll go in.
01:56:41.000 And I'm really fortunate because my buddy Anthony, me and him are on the exact same schedule.
01:56:45.000 So we always just do everything together, which is great.
01:56:47.000 Because now I have a partner to do all these things with.
01:56:51.000 But we have a bunch of basically bodyweight exercises and stretches and certain things that we do alongside the contrast tubbing and sauna.
01:57:01.000 And then I'll either get a massage or go to the chiro and basically just take care of all the little things I need to.
01:57:10.000 I have specific injuries I need to focus on.
01:57:14.000 To me, you get an injury, you don't just do rehab for eight weeks and then move on.
01:57:18.000 I'm always taking care of these things so that I never have re-aggravated.
01:57:22.000 I'm staying ahead.
01:57:23.000 And so that's the day where I do all of that stuff.
01:57:25.000 And then Sunday is nothing.
01:57:28.000 Sunday, I go to church.
01:57:30.000 I hang out with my wife and see my family.
01:57:33.000 Maybe do a Sunday dinner with people.
01:57:34.000 And that's more of an emotional mental recovery.
01:57:38.000 Yeah.
01:57:40.000 Now, what has the UFC said in terms of setting you up for a fight in the future?
01:57:46.000 Do you have anything lined up?
01:57:48.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:57:49.000 So no opponent yet, but I'm going to fight UFC 300. Ooh.
01:57:52.000 Yeah.
01:57:53.000 That's a big one.
01:57:53.000 I know, yeah.
01:57:54.000 April, right?
01:57:55.000 Is that April?
01:57:55.000 April, yeah.
01:57:56.000 Yeah.
01:57:56.000 Is that Vegas?
01:57:58.000 Yes.
01:57:59.000 Nice.
01:57:59.000 Yeah, I'm fired up.
01:58:00.000 That's going to be fun.
01:58:01.000 And no opponent yet.
01:58:02.000 Now, are you asking for a specific level of opponent?
01:58:05.000 Are you trying to get someone in the top 15?
01:58:07.000 Like, what are you trying to do?
01:58:08.000 So my goal for this next fight is...
01:58:11.000 You know, just whoever they give me.
01:58:12.000 I'm still on my first contract, so I kind of want to fight this out and then see as it goes.
01:58:18.000 How many fights are in that contract?
01:58:19.000 I have two left.
01:58:20.000 Yeah, so it was four.
01:58:22.000 So I would like to fight this fight, and then my next fight, I would like to get somebody that's maybe right outside the rankings, right in there, like in the mix.
01:58:30.000 And then hopefully that'll be ideally like July.
01:58:33.000 And then if I get...
01:58:36.000 I'll at least get one more next year, maybe two, and then I would like to, after that, obviously fight a ranked guy.
01:58:41.000 So hopefully a ranked guy, my third fighter next year.
01:58:44.000 And how much time are you looking to have in between fights?
01:58:48.000 Well, I told my manager, I was like, if they could book me...
01:58:52.000 For UFC Miami in March and go again in April because I feel like whoever they put in front of me, I'm going to kill them.
01:58:58.000 So let's do it.
01:58:59.000 They're like, they don't really do that.
01:59:01.000 He's like, so you can either just do the UFC Miami card and then hopefully something, maybe something will fall out and you'll get there or you can guarantee yourself on 300. And I was like, well, I'd rather, I really want to fight on UFC 300. So let's just do that.
01:59:16.000 So that's April, May, June, July.
01:59:19.000 So then I'll basically run those back to back.
01:59:22.000 And then after that, I don't want to plan too far ahead because who knows what happens in MMA, right?
01:59:28.000 But after that, I mean, I'm ready to go.
01:59:30.000 If I finish a guy again, let's go again.
01:59:32.000 That's kind of how I feel.
01:59:33.000 Well, the division that you're in, the 185-pound division, is so exciting right now.
01:59:38.000 When Strickland beat Adesanya and opened it up, and when Drekas Duplessis beat down Robert Whittaker, a lot of things opened up.
01:59:47.000 This is a very, very exciting time.
01:59:50.000 Yeah, it is.
01:59:50.000 I feel like there's a lot of good guys, but I like where I'm at.
01:59:55.000 I think I'm a tough matchup for any of these guys.
01:59:59.000 They all want to fight me now because I'm the worst that I'll be, right?
02:00:03.000 So you hear some of these guys talking about me and stuff like they want to fight me now.
02:00:06.000 I'm like, that's smart, you know, because where I'm at right now is not going to be where I'm at in six months.
02:00:14.000 It's not going to be where I'm at in a year.
02:00:15.000 Well, that's why I'm so excited to see you in April.
02:00:17.000 Yeah.
02:00:17.000 Because you got so good in two fucking years.
02:00:20.000 What is going to happen to you with the six months off or seven months off?
02:00:24.000 Yeah, and I'm not the type of guy to just train in camp.
02:00:28.000 I'm always on it, obviously.
02:00:29.000 So I'm always getting better and improving.
02:00:32.000 Which is gigantic.
02:00:35.000 That's where the real gains are made.
02:00:37.000 Exactly.
02:00:37.000 I agree, for sure.
02:00:39.000 It's interesting because I've had five professional fights.
02:00:42.000 You know, I don't know what somebody's going to game plan for.
02:00:45.000 It's like, alright, you watch me beat five guys basically in like six minutes combined total time.
02:00:51.000 Like, okay, study that, bud.
02:00:53.000 Like, good luck.
02:00:54.000 And I'm not even going to be the same.
02:00:55.000 I'm taking however many months, that's like 40% of my total training time in my career.
02:01:02.000 So, I don't know, man.
02:01:04.000 I'm not even going to be close to what I was this last fight.
02:01:06.000 And even in this last fight, you've got 30 seconds to watch.
02:01:09.000 It's so bananas that you've gone this far in just a couple of years.
02:01:12.000 I haven't even been hit yet.
02:01:14.000 No, seriously, go back and watch all my fights.
02:01:16.000 So my last fight, I cracked the dude with the right hook, and he kind of came over the top and barely touched my head, but it was almost like a slap.
02:01:24.000 I didn't even feel it.
02:01:26.000 But I don't even count that.
02:01:27.000 I have not been hit in five professional fights, two amateur fights.
02:01:31.000 I've been hit on training, obviously, but...
02:01:35.000 Yeah, it's a weird...
02:01:36.000 I didn't expect this.
02:01:37.000 I expected, like I said, to have a different path, but here I am, and I'm going to make the most of it, and I'm excited to just keep getting better is the main thing.
02:01:46.000 I just want to keep getting better, improve, improve, improve.
02:01:49.000 I have big goals and stuff, but the main thing is just keep getting better.
02:01:51.000 Well, I'm a fan, man.
02:01:53.000 I'm very excited to watch this.
02:01:55.000 One more thing I want to talk to you about is how'd you get into bow hunting?
02:01:57.000 Yeah, so I grew up, my dad and granddad hunted, and they were interested in hunting and stuff.
02:02:04.000 And so when I graduated college in 2019, I was kind of thinking, like, all right, I want to figure out other things I'm interested in.
02:02:14.000 I actually saw Cam Haynes on Instagram and I was like, oh, this looks cool.
02:02:18.000 I kind of always have enjoyed the outdoors and stuff.
02:02:23.000 I've always been into my nutrition and I was really interested.
02:02:25.000 I was like, I want to hunt for my food that I eat.
02:02:29.000 I want to be eating elk and deer and things like that.
02:02:33.000 So then I started thinking about getting a bow and stuff, and it wasn't like a rushed decision.
02:02:40.000 I took probably almost six or eight months where I was thinking about it, thinking about it, thinking about it.
02:02:44.000 And then I finally was like, alright, I really want this.
02:02:48.000 I'm going to do it.
02:02:49.000 And so then I got hooked up with Lancaster Archery.
02:02:52.000 They're a great archery shop.
02:02:53.000 They're a great place.
02:02:54.000 I buy a lot of my shit from them.
02:02:55.000 No, they're awesome.
02:02:58.000 Is this an elk hunt you went on?
02:02:59.000 This was New Mexico this year, yeah.
02:03:01.000 Oh, wow.
02:03:01.000 Is that your first elk hunt?
02:03:03.000 First archery elk.
02:03:06.000 Archery elk hunt in New Mexico for the first one.
02:03:08.000 That's the promised land.
02:03:09.000 Yeah, it was great, man.
02:03:10.000 Nice.
02:03:11.000 It was awesome.
02:03:12.000 Yeah, that was this September.
02:03:15.000 Yeah, you're all hooked up.
02:03:16.000 Look at you.
02:03:17.000 Cool, you.
02:03:18.000 Dude, it's so funny.
02:03:19.000 You got a PSE bow.
02:03:20.000 You're ready to go, man.
02:03:21.000 I'm ready to go, yeah.
02:03:22.000 What was that like?
02:03:23.000 Man, it's like the exact same feeling as knocking somebody out cold.
02:03:28.000 It's one of the most exciting things I've ever done.
02:03:30.000 It's so fun, man.
02:03:31.000 It's so crazy.
02:03:32.000 Bowhunting is also so complicated.
02:03:35.000 It's so difficult.
02:03:36.000 There's so many moving parts.
02:03:37.000 It's a dance.
02:03:38.000 Oh my gosh, yeah.
02:03:39.000 So many things happening.
02:03:40.000 Should I stand here by the tree?
02:03:41.000 Which way is he coming?
02:03:43.000 You know, with the wind and the range, do I have a chance to range them or am I gonna just like range areas and guess?
02:03:49.000 Am I gonna pin gap them?
02:03:50.000 What am I gonna do?
02:03:50.000 I love that chess match too, you know, between you and the animal.
02:03:53.000 It's the same as a fight and I actually like, when I got my bow, it was probably June or July and I started shooting it and I was like, Yeah, I'm not doing this this fall.
02:04:04.000 I'm gonna get good.
02:04:06.000 So I took a year and a half basically of full training before I even did any archery hunting.
02:04:12.000 Do you have an archery coach?
02:04:13.000 I don't have a coach, no, but I watched all the Knocked On, School of Knock.
02:04:19.000 So I watched tons of film on that.
02:04:21.000 Dudley's the man.
02:04:22.000 He's great.
02:04:23.000 It's so funny because there's not that many people I look up to.
02:04:28.000 But him, I'm like, dude, this guy, he's the man.
02:04:32.000 I think it was last year, he killed four bulls in four different states.
02:04:37.000 I'm like, dude...
02:04:39.000 I need to do that.
02:04:40.000 That's amazing.
02:04:41.000 But I just thought that was the coolest thing.
02:04:44.000 When I go to Lancaster, they help me a ton.
02:04:46.000 So they help me get set up correctly and things like that, which now when I tell people who ask me about it, who are interested in doing archery, I say, the most important thing is Go to a good archery shop and get set up and have them teach you good fundamentals.
02:04:59.000 You can tinker with everything.
02:05:01.000 But you don't want to learn bad initially and then have to unlearn it.
02:05:04.000 Yeah, all the other stuff, tinkering, what do you want to use for a release or stabilizer?
02:05:10.000 Just get set up, get your draw link correct, get your peep height, get everything put on, get your grip right, and have a good starting point and good foundation.
02:05:20.000 And then you can kind of go from From there, you're going to be on so much better trajectory if you're learning incorrectly from the jump.
02:05:28.000 So I was able to learn correctly from the beginning.
02:05:30.000 And then it's the same thing with striking.
02:05:32.000 I just apply everything I know with wrestling, and now that's hunting and archery for me.
02:05:38.000 And I freaking love it.
02:05:39.000 All I want to do is go fight people and knock them out and go chase elk.
02:05:43.000 Yeah, that's awesome, man.
02:05:45.000 What kind of broadheads are you using?
02:05:47.000 So I've been using Rage Hypodermic.
02:05:50.000 I like them.
02:05:50.000 They get the job done.
02:05:51.000 That's what I shot that bull with.
02:05:53.000 I mean, it was a frontal shot straight through the heart, so any broadhead would have done the trick.
02:05:57.000 But I don't know, man.
02:05:58.000 I'm always open to, like, learning new things.
02:06:01.000 I think there's different reasons to use different types of broadheads, right?
02:06:05.000 Like, I shoot a...
02:06:07.000 80 pounds, and I have a pretty long draw length, so mechanical, like I'm not that worried about penetration.
02:06:13.000 But, you know, in a longer shot or a follow-up shot, I have iron wheels as well for a longer follow-up where I'm more worried about something like that.
02:06:22.000 And then, you know, like I said, it's going to be different for every animal, for every situation, so I think some people get so stuck on, like, This is the way to go.
02:06:30.000 It's like, well, I mean, it's different for everybody.
02:06:32.000 Like, if I have a 30 and a half inch draw, it's going to be different than somebody with a 27 inch draw.
02:06:37.000 It's going to be different than somebody shooting 65 versus 80 pounds.
02:06:40.000 It's like, you know, it's all, so I'm not married to anything, really.
02:06:44.000 That's great.
02:06:44.000 And what kind of release are you using?
02:06:46.000 Eyes and Knock to it.
02:06:47.000 Thumb release.
02:06:48.000 Yeah, that's great.
02:06:49.000 I love that.
02:06:50.000 Can't go wrong.
02:06:50.000 No, I feel like, so I wasn't originally using the index release, but once I started using the thumb release, I just got so much more accuracy and consistency, and it was like, I mean, that was just, to me, the way to go.
02:07:04.000 Yeah, I killed my bull last one with a knock to it.
02:07:08.000 I think it's just, it's such a great release, and I really do like the two fingers, too.
02:07:12.000 Yeah, yeah.
02:07:12.000 Do you use the Silverback at all?
02:07:14.000 I used to.
02:07:15.000 I trained with that.
02:07:16.000 Just for training?
02:07:17.000 I learned how to really shoot correctly.
02:07:19.000 That's what John put me on initially.
02:07:20.000 Yeah, so I have one.
02:07:22.000 I haven't really set it up because you've got to fiddle with it a little bit to get the poundage right and all that.
02:07:27.000 But I feel like I wouldn't use it for hunting, but I want to use it for training and stuff.
02:07:31.000 It's very good to make sure that you're pulling hard against the back wall and get a full, clean release with the follow-through.
02:07:37.000 It's the best feeling.
02:07:38.000 I love that, man.
02:07:39.000 But I've hunted with it, too.
02:07:40.000 Have you?
02:07:41.000 Yeah, Jocko hunts with that.
02:07:42.000 Oh, really?
02:07:43.000 Yeah.
02:07:43.000 Yeah, a lot of guys still like to hunt with it, but, you know.
02:07:46.000 Yeah, yeah.
02:07:47.000 Dude, I would love to go out with you guys.
02:07:48.000 I think a guy said, I know a guy who, his name's Rick.
02:07:55.000 I don't know if he owns a place or has a connection in Utah.
02:07:57.000 Yeah, Rick Wood.
02:07:58.000 Rick, yeah, okay.
02:07:59.000 He asked me to come out with you guys this last fall, but I already had my New Mexico hunt set up.
02:08:06.000 But dude, it would be fun.
02:08:07.000 I would just freaking hang out and pack out.
02:08:09.000 Yeah, it'll be fun.
02:08:11.000 It's going to be really fun.
02:08:12.000 But listen, brother, I really appreciate you coming in here.
02:08:14.000 I'm a big fan.
02:08:15.000 I'm very excited about what you're doing, and I'm really excited about your future.
02:08:19.000 So it's been cool to talk to you, and I can't wait to see you in April.
02:08:22.000 Thank you, Jar.
02:08:23.000 UFC 300. Let's go.
02:08:24.000 Let's get it, baby.
02:08:25.000 I appreciate it.
02:08:25.000 Tell everybody you have an interesting Instagram handle.
02:08:28.000 They might not be able to find it.
02:08:30.000 Yeah, you can find me at NoBickle1.
02:08:32.000 Instead of Bo Nickel, No Bickle.
02:08:34.000 How'd that happen?
02:08:35.000 So it was kind of funny.
02:08:36.000 When I was in high school, that was when Instagram kind of started getting big.
02:08:40.000 And I was trying to figure out what I want.
02:08:42.000 I was just going to do Bo Nickel or something in my butt.
02:08:44.000 Is there a Bo Nickel out there?
02:08:46.000 I don't think so.
02:08:46.000 But my buddy, his name is Jack.
02:08:49.000 He was like, how about No Bickle?
02:08:51.000 And I was like, dude, that's it.
02:08:52.000 So I can't take credit for the idea, but I just vented with that one.
02:08:56.000 Well, it works.
02:08:57.000 All right, dude.
02:08:58.000 Well, thank you very much.
02:08:59.000 Thanks for coming in here.
02:08:59.000 Appreciate you.
02:09:00.000 Thanks, Jim.
02:09:00.000 All right.