The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #160 with Francis Ngannou

00:00:00.000 Joe Rogan podcast, check it out!

00:00:03.000 The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day Alright, we're up What's up, man?

00:00:14.000 Good to see you.

00:00:15.000 You have had a lot of experiences since the last time I saw you.

00:00:21.000 Yeah.

00:00:22.000 A lot of things happened.

00:00:24.000 That's why I'm always about writing my book and chapter, keep adding up, adding up, adding up.

00:00:33.000 And yes, every time you feel like you're just maybe in the beginning or in the middle.

00:00:39.000 Yeah, I don't think so.

00:00:43.000 You're definitely only in the middle.

00:00:45.000 Yeah, in the middle.

00:00:46.000 Somewhere.

00:00:47.000 I mean, it's not the beginning, but it's a lot of experiences.

00:00:50.000 So tell me about leading up to the Tyson Fury fight.

00:00:56.000 Oh, the Tyson Fury fight, that was great.

00:00:59.000 You know, I was just there living a dream, you know, get this big moment, get that fight that I've been waiting for four years.

00:01:07.000 The fight that everybody said you were never going to get.

00:01:09.000 Yes.

00:01:10.000 Which is crazy.

00:01:11.000 Like, thank God for the Saudis, because they are making things happen, which is really incredible.

00:01:17.000 They are making things happen.

00:01:18.000 Incredible.

00:01:18.000 And it's not like, who is this?

00:01:20.000 Who is who?

00:01:21.000 Who is that?

00:01:22.000 You know, it's like, okay, we want it to happen, then make it happen.

00:01:26.000 Yeah, because everybody wanted to see it happen, but it was one of those things where everybody dismissed it.

00:01:31.000 Everybody said, that's not going to happen.

00:01:33.000 Tyson Fury's the heavyweight champion.

00:01:35.000 Why would he fight a guy who doesn't have any professional boxing matches?

00:01:38.000 That's crazy.

00:01:39.000 That's not going to happen.

00:01:41.000 And it happened.

00:01:42.000 And then everybody said, you didn't stand a chance.

00:01:45.000 And then when you knocked him down the second round, everybody was like, holy shit!

00:01:50.000 And when you're dancing over him when he went down...

00:01:53.000 Yeah.

00:01:54.000 But, you know, I think a lot of people do mistake something, you know.

00:02:02.000 And I always tell people, like, not because you're a fighter that you walk in the bar, and there's this guy coming to you, maybe this fat guy coming to you, and then you stand there, and because you're a fighter, don't think, like, he's a threat.

00:02:15.000 Everybody could be a threat.

00:02:16.000 You better take two steps back, and then, like, see your distance, and get ready to defend yourself.

00:02:22.000 You know, if everybody hits you, anybody hits you, you're gonna get hurt, you know?

00:02:28.000 So, yes, I might not have been doing boxing.

00:02:32.000 I'm not a boxer, but still, I'm a fighter.

00:02:34.000 And even if I wasn't a fighter, you know, I can hurt and I can harm somebody.

00:02:40.000 You're a big motherfucker!

00:02:41.000 I'm a big guy!

00:02:44.000 So I was watching it and people were like, no, he's 10, no chance, he has zero chance.

00:02:48.000 I'm like, there is not a fight on earth that zero chance, that element of zero chance doesn't exist.

00:02:54.000 I mean, if you look at it, I'm a man guy and then two men together, someone might have more techniques, might know the sport.

00:03:05.000 But even if I've never been in the gym, you still better watch out.

00:03:09.000 I still have a chance.

00:03:10.000 Maybe not as much, maybe not equal chance, but I still do have a chance.

00:03:14.000 But you can't dismiss someone like you and drop your guard and think that you don't have any chance.

00:03:20.000 You shouldn't dismiss anybody.

00:03:22.000 No.

00:03:23.000 We used to be in the...

00:03:24.000 I have seen fight that people show up and then they pretend like, oh, they're going to fight.

00:03:29.000 They have stone in their hand.

00:03:30.000 And if you dismiss them because you think like, oh, he's a small guy, he hits you with the stone in his hand.

00:03:36.000 Right, right, right, right.

00:03:38.000 Well, by the time you find out that he has stone in their hand, you are in the ground.

00:03:41.000 Right, exactly.

00:03:43.000 But it was very clear to me that you had some interesting strategies when you went into that fight.

00:03:49.000 First of all, you were fighting a lot of it in Southpaw.

00:03:52.000 Why did you decide to do that?

00:03:54.000 Was that something that you guys had devised before the fight?

00:03:58.000 You thought it would be an interesting strategy?

00:04:01.000 Or is that just like the way you like to box?

00:04:03.000 I like to box like that, but I also thought he was a strategy.

00:04:09.000 That he would be a good strategy as well.

00:04:12.000 Because, like, basically on the Tyson Fury fight, I think the South Pole was a big component in that fight.

00:04:20.000 Because every time that I realized that every time that I switched to South Pole, he was thinking.

00:04:26.000 But when I switched back to Orthodox, he was pressing.

00:04:30.000 So when I wanted to take a break, I switched to South Pole a little bit.

00:04:36.000 What was it like to, I mean, there's obviously you've had many MMA fights, you've been very successful, UFC heavyweight champion as an MMA fighter.

00:04:44.000 But what was the difference in the feel of like going into a professional boxing fight with a guy like Tyson Fury, who is the heavyweight champion of the world and one of the greatest of all time?

00:04:56.000 He's absolutely one of the greatest heavyweight boxers ever.

00:05:00.000 But he was completely different.

00:05:02.000 You know, the environment is different.

00:05:04.000 The organization is different.

00:05:06.000 It's different to be stepped in the ring for the first time.

00:05:13.000 Okay, you have all this spotlight on you, but you're in the ring.

00:05:16.000 It feels different.

00:05:17.000 Sometimes you're in the cage.

00:05:19.000 You're used to the cage.

00:05:20.000 You lean on that cage.

00:05:21.000 You have that feeling.

00:05:23.000 You grab the cage.

00:05:25.000 Also, you have shoes on.

00:05:27.000 Yes, and then in the case, you know that you can do more, you can wrestle, you can do this, and you're comfortable with that.

00:05:38.000 But you're in the ring for the very first time, somewhere that you've never been, it feels different.

00:05:44.000 And then you're thinking like, oh man, how am I going to do?

00:05:49.000 Am I going to be able to do three rounds?

00:05:52.000 Am I going to be able to do four rounds?

00:05:54.000 I don't know.

00:05:55.000 I'm going to find out just now.

00:05:58.000 There's no way back.

00:05:59.000 You're going to find out.

00:06:00.000 So by every round, you have to think about, like, okay, how am I doing?

00:06:05.000 This is the first round, then second round.

00:06:07.000 Okay, so this is the fifth round.

00:06:10.000 I'm not too bad, so I think I'm going to get there.

00:06:14.000 You know, just go like that, round after round.

00:06:15.000 So you were concerned about endurance?

00:06:17.000 Yes, very concerned about endurance.

00:06:19.000 It was 10 rounds, and I didn't know how I was going to be feeling after the third round.

00:06:24.000 You turned it on in the eighth round.

00:06:26.000 In the eighth round, you hit him with some big shots.

00:06:28.000 Yeah.

00:06:29.000 That was one of your best rounds.

00:06:30.000 Yeah, the eighth round was pretty good.

00:06:33.000 Then I put my feet off the gas on the ninth round.

00:06:40.000 And then the 10 rounds, I'm like, You know, like, oh, I feel good.

00:06:45.000 This is the last round, right?

00:06:48.000 I feel good.

00:06:49.000 That's when I started to do, like, the Superman punch, all this stuff.

00:06:53.000 For me, he was already a win.

00:06:57.000 You shocked the world, that's for sure.

00:06:59.000 Did you have any mock fights in the gym?

00:07:04.000 Like, did you bring in any professional boxers and have, like, try to go 8, 10 rounds in the gym?

00:07:10.000 Sparring.

00:07:11.000 Yeah, but like with no headgear, like smaller gloves, did you do anything like that replicated an actual professional boxing match?

00:07:19.000 No.

00:07:19.000 We just do like a normal sparring, have different sparring partner sometimes to push me, but we didn't do anything like that, you know.

00:07:32.000 As an MMA fighter, we used to spar without gloves, without headgear and stuff.

00:07:37.000 But you get into boxing.

00:07:39.000 Everything is so strict, so specific.

00:07:42.000 And then you get to the point that you kind of ask yourself, why taking a chance to hurt now and get pulled up of the fight?

00:07:51.000 I'm just going to train.

00:07:53.000 I trained the best that I could, that I can.

00:07:56.000 Then I will get there, figure out what's happened.

00:07:59.000 And so, but from the time the negotiations started to the time of the fight, how much time did you have to prepare for this?

00:08:07.000 For the negotiation?

00:08:08.000 No, so you had the negotiations and then once it was signed, how much time did you have to prepare for the actual fight itself?

00:08:14.000 And were you preparing already, hoping you were going to have a boxing match?

00:08:19.000 Yeah, but it's different to like think that, oh, I might have a boxing match.

00:08:24.000 I want to have a boxing match.

00:08:26.000 Then when you have a boxing match and knowing who you are going to fight is something different.

00:08:33.000 You know, you prepare.

00:08:34.000 The real preparation starts now.

00:08:37.000 And between the moment that we signed the fight, the fight itself, it was over three months.

00:08:43.000 Because I know that it wasn't my fear, you know, and I didn't have any...

00:08:49.000 And it's not like I was in the gym training, boxing every day.

00:08:54.000 So it was basically four months.

00:08:57.000 That's crazy.

00:08:58.000 Yeah, I took a moment for a pre-camp.

00:09:02.000 I came back here because I was in Cameroon at the time.

00:09:07.000 Then I came back here.

00:09:08.000 My team and I, we work on everything, start like a pre-camp, you know, just train to get in shape, start like sparring, and then we started the sparring with three rounds.

00:09:19.000 The first sparring was like three rounds.

00:09:22.000 Move around, see.

00:09:24.000 Then we started to go, walk round after round. - What I thought when I saw the fight is imagine if you had just gone into professional boxing like 10 years ago, how well you would do.

00:09:40.000 No MMA, no kicking, no wrestling, just professional boxing.

00:09:47.000 For you to do that well against a guy like Tyson Fury who's that good?

00:09:52.000 I don't really know and those are the stuff that I don't usually think about.

00:09:57.000 I think life sometimes just had a path for you.

00:10:00.000 You follow the path that you destiny that life.

00:10:07.000 Because regardless of the fact that I didn't start 10 years earlier, I didn't have that opportunity 10 years earlier.

00:10:16.000 Meanwhile, I had to discover MMA and have a great journey in MMA, have a great experience in MMA. So it's something that I will not regret that.

00:10:27.000 I will not beat that up over an opportunity of starting boxing early.

00:10:32.000 Things just happened.

00:10:33.000 I took my chance.

00:10:35.000 I do what I can do.

00:10:36.000 It's all about, like, figure out how far I can go, what I can possibly do.

00:10:40.000 You know, so I'm not a 18 years, 20 years old guy that I dream in to have a career into this, but I still want to know what I can possibly do at this point of my life.

00:10:54.000 Yeah.

00:10:55.000 What was the experience like when it was all over?

00:10:59.000 Like, what did it feel like when you just went 10 rounds and a lot of people, including myself, thought you won?

00:11:05.000 Yeah.

00:11:06.000 Oh, I feel very great.

00:11:09.000 You know, like, regardless of the result, for me, knowing what I was going through, what was in my mind, like, what's going to happen into this fight?

00:11:21.000 First round, second round, then I get in the tenth round.

00:11:25.000 Good.

00:11:26.000 And I feel like I wasn't doing bad.

00:11:29.000 So for me, that was a win.

00:11:31.000 That was a satisfaction.

00:11:33.000 The result was other part of it, which didn't matter much.

00:11:39.000 But I knew already that if ever, because I couldn't guarantee that we would get in the 10th round.

00:11:46.000 But if ever we get there, I wasn't expecting to win.

00:11:50.000 When you dropped him...

00:11:52.000 Definitely not.

00:11:52.000 When you dropped him in the second round, I jumped off the couch.

00:11:55.000 I jumped in the air.

00:11:57.000 I will say something.

00:11:59.000 You know, like, I won this from the moment that they accepted the fight, that they signed the fight.

00:12:06.000 Because I think I was...

00:12:11.000 Very underestimated.

00:12:13.000 They didn't know that I could have done something.

00:12:18.000 If they had known that beforehand, maybe this fight would have never happened.

00:12:26.000 Because they would have seen a risk and they wouldn't want to take that risk.

00:12:30.000 So this was basically less risk, zero risk.

00:12:34.000 And it probably would have been different, too, because there was no footage to prepare for you, right?

00:12:41.000 Like, the only footage that he could prepare was watching you fight in MMA. Yes, he was...

00:12:48.000 There it is.

00:12:54.000 Why are you dancing in front of them?

00:12:56.000 When we start a fight, when the referee say, okay, you guys go to your corner, he said, let me take you to school.

00:13:06.000 So that was, the dancing was like, I think you're a bad professor.

00:13:12.000 You're a bad teacher.

00:13:16.000 That was the only reason why I did that.

00:13:19.000 He's a funny guy, man.

00:13:20.000 He's funny.

00:13:21.000 He's very entertaining.

00:13:22.000 Oh, he's so entertaining.

00:13:24.000 He's so entertaining.

00:13:25.000 He's just a show guy that's happened to really like being very talented in boxing, good at it, but he's an entertainer.

00:13:35.000 I mean, the way he sells it.

00:13:37.000 I mean, even the way he was playing with his fat, like standing next to you, like rubbing his belly.

00:13:42.000 Like sometimes he will insult you.

00:13:45.000 I don't know if he's insulting you or if he's making fun.

00:13:48.000 But it's just funny that you have to laugh.

00:13:49.000 You really have to say about it.

00:13:51.000 He kept talking about how big your dick must be.

00:13:55.000 He's a funny dude, man.

00:13:57.000 He's a funny dude.

00:13:58.000 He said those things the first time we met.

00:14:02.000 And he would put some stuff up sometime that I'm like, what?

00:14:06.000 And I really have a hard time understanding what he's saying.

00:14:11.000 Oh, I do.

00:14:11.000 So I swear to God.

00:14:12.000 And English is my first language.

00:14:14.000 And they have to translate to tell me what he said.

00:14:17.000 His English is hard to understand.

00:14:19.000 The Gypsy King, he's quite a character.

00:14:23.000 Did you hang out with him at all after the fight?

00:14:26.000 No, we didn't hang out.

00:14:27.000 But I think we both respect each other.

00:14:31.000 I think he always, I mean, he was entertaining, but he always showed respect.

00:14:39.000 And I know that he respected me, even from the beginning.

00:14:44.000 You know, it's not like this was after the fight.

00:14:47.000 Even from the beginning, he could have said everything that he would say to make his show, to laugh, make people laugh, you know, but he's very respectful.

00:14:55.000 That's cool.

00:14:57.000 Was there any talk after the fight about a rematch?

00:15:01.000 Yes.

00:15:01.000 There was even a rematch clause.

00:15:07.000 How do they call it?

00:15:09.000 First regard of rematch clause.

00:15:12.000 There was something in the contract about the rematch clause.

00:15:17.000 Was that if you beat him?

00:15:22.000 It was if I get in the 8th round.

00:15:24.000 Really?

00:15:25.000 Yeah.

00:15:25.000 Wow.

00:15:27.000 So the deal of the rematch was if I get in the 8th round.

00:15:30.000 So why didn't the rematch materialize?

00:15:33.000 I think it's a timing.

00:15:36.000 I think it's a matter of timing.

00:15:39.000 So you go from that fight to the Anthony Joshua fight?

00:15:44.000 Yes.

00:15:45.000 So tell me about the preparation and leading up to that fight.

00:15:48.000 In fact, the preparation for the Anthony Joshua fight, then I started, you know, after having like four months of training camp for the Tyson Fury fight, I had this feeling, you know, and then I get a little confident.

00:16:05.000 Now I know how it works, like 10 rounds, and then it was pretty good.

00:16:10.000 You know, the Tyson Fury fight, I think I sparred like 10 rounds for like Two weeks.

00:16:20.000 Yeah, like four sparrings of ten rounds, barely.

00:16:24.000 But the Anthony Joshua fight, six weeks before the fight, I was...

00:16:31.000 No, I wasn't ten.

00:16:32.000 No, the Tyson...

00:16:33.000 Yeah, four weeks before the fight, I was already doing like ten rounds.

00:16:38.000 And I was feeling good, you know, even...

00:16:42.000 A little lighter.

00:16:43.000 But things play out different.

00:16:46.000 And I think, unlike the Tyson Fury fight, that nobody expected me to do anything.

00:16:54.000 Here, they were expecting me to do something.

00:16:58.000 So...

00:17:00.000 Things played out a little different.

00:17:02.000 And then we get in the five weeks, and then every time that we're going to do something in the five weeks, whether it's media, they're going to pick me up, and then I get there, have to wait like one hour and a half before he arrives.

00:17:22.000 And that was like maybe the third day of the week that Dewey, Dewey Cooper, he said, Oh, he started to get really mad, upset about it.

00:17:33.000 Like, yes, this is how they do to get fired and tired.

00:17:36.000 But at the time, I didn't know what was going on.

00:17:40.000 So I'm like, No, come relax Dewey.

00:17:44.000 It's OK. I didn't know until we get to the fight day.

00:17:49.000 Friday, receive an email.

00:17:51.000 Pick up time.

00:17:53.000 I mean, this is one thing among others.

00:17:56.000 Pick up time.

00:17:57.000 10.30 from the hotel.

00:18:00.000 And then, when they say 10.30, by 10.20, there is a car in your door waiting.

00:18:07.000 We go to the supposedly fight time between midnight to 1am.

00:18:15.000 We get to the arena at 10.45.

00:18:20.000 There is a producer coming to the locker room.

00:18:24.000 Say, oh guy, we're running late on the broadcast.

00:18:27.000 Now we're going to go around 1.45 each.

00:18:34.000 I'm like, okay, 1.45.

00:18:36.000 It's 10.45.

00:18:37.000 Three hours.

00:18:40.000 Okay.

00:18:42.000 So what do you do?

00:18:43.000 Do you eat?

00:18:44.000 Do you sleep?

00:18:45.000 What do you do when you know you have three more hours?

00:18:48.000 You don't know, just stay there and then you have like a drug test guy around waiting for you to pee.

00:18:54.000 How far before the fight do you eat?

00:18:58.000 Usually, maybe like four, five hours.

00:19:04.000 Yeah, like maybe five to six hours and then you get some snacks in between, you know.

00:19:11.000 And then, yeah, it was around 1.30.

00:19:18.000 That he was, Anthony Joshua arrived.

00:19:22.000 I saw it on screen.

00:19:24.000 I'm like, so we're supposed to fight at 1.45.

00:19:27.000 He's arriving at 1.30.

00:19:30.000 What does that mean?

00:19:31.000 It's going to...

00:19:32.000 So they're playing games.

00:19:34.000 And so we fight at 1.00, at 3.30.

00:19:38.000 Oh, wow!

00:19:39.000 At 3.30.

00:19:41.000 I've been in Saudi for almost two months, training to fight between midnight and 1.00.

00:19:49.000 That was my training time.

00:19:52.000 By two, three...

00:19:54.000 So they wanted to keep you anxious, drag it on, psychologically put it in your head, you don't know when you're going to fight?

00:20:03.000 Pretty much.

00:20:04.000 But even at that time, I didn't know what was happening.

00:20:07.000 It was after everything that I was like, what's going on?

00:20:12.000 Because I get to the point that I was so tired.

00:20:15.000 I was in the locker room, hitting me, then sit down, feeling asleep.

00:20:21.000 Then I tell Eric, Eric Nixik, like, bro, something wrong.

00:20:27.000 I'm asleep.

00:20:29.000 I feel like I want to sleep.

00:20:30.000 Like, I'm sweating.

00:20:34.000 But we just keep doing.

00:20:37.000 So that's fight.

00:20:40.000 I mean, not to say Anthony Joshua can win me.

00:20:44.000 You know, I think if there's somebody that you can lose against him, he is the guy, you know.

00:20:52.000 And he's one of the best of doing it, you know.

00:20:57.000 But, and this is definitely not on him because he wasn't the guy that was sending all those emails, was organizing.

00:21:04.000 So I'm not blaming about anything.

00:21:07.000 But the organization, bro, nah.

00:21:10.000 They did quite some stuff that wasn't fair.

00:21:15.000 Wish on the Tyson fight was perfect.

00:21:18.000 Everything was perfect because I wasn't a threat.

00:21:20.000 I wasn't...

00:21:22.000 Nobody cares about me.

00:21:23.000 Everything was organized.

00:21:25.000 We get there in the locker room, I think, was two hours before the fight properly.

00:21:30.000 Yeah.

00:21:31.000 Hmm.

00:21:32.000 So then I'm like...

00:21:35.000 Well, Anthony Joshua is a veteran, you know.

00:21:37.000 He's been in the boxing game for a long time.

00:21:39.000 For sure.

00:21:40.000 He knows all the different tricks.

00:21:43.000 They also obviously very much prepared for your style.

00:21:47.000 They saw you fight Tyson Fury, so they had tape on you.

00:21:51.000 As Tyson Fury did not have boxing tape.

00:21:54.000 He didn't have any footage to study.

00:21:55.000 But Anthony Joshua did.

00:21:57.000 And it was very clear that he knew you had certain tendencies and there were certain things that you did with the Tyson Fury fight that he exploited in his fight.

00:22:07.000 Maybe.

00:22:08.000 And then I think, again, I think he's capable to figure out everybody.

00:22:14.000 I think he's capable to win everybody.

00:22:18.000 But In this case, I feel like in some ways, they stand on my way a little bit.

00:22:28.000 They stood in your way.

00:22:29.000 Yeah.

00:22:30.000 So they played some games.

00:22:32.000 Yeah.

00:22:32.000 Well, they wanted to get the most advantage possible, you know, which is, that's, you know, smart.

00:22:37.000 If you're their coach, their manager, that's what I would do too.

00:22:41.000 But it wasn't their coach that was organizing the fight.

00:22:45.000 So you think it's the organization itself that they set everything up in his favor?

00:22:50.000 The organization.

00:22:52.000 I mean, yes, his team was part of the organization because it was Greensberry and Mushroom.

00:23:00.000 Those emails was coming from there.

00:23:04.000 So those are the people that told you to get there three hours earlier than you needed to be?

00:23:08.000 Yeah.

00:23:09.000 Yeah.

00:23:10.000 Those are the people that were sending the schedule, the fight with schedule.

00:23:14.000 And every day we send everything, like pick up time, the program, and the schedule.

00:23:20.000 Have you had a chance to go back and watch the Anthony Joshua fight?

00:23:23.000 Yeah.

00:23:24.000 I mean, I didn't...

00:23:26.000 Yes, I watched it.

00:23:28.000 What was your question?

00:23:32.000 What do you remember about the fight?

00:23:34.000 What was different watching it?

00:23:36.000 Oh.

00:23:37.000 Even like feeling it.

00:23:39.000 It wasn't...

00:23:40.000 Even before I went to watch it, I get in the ring Was, you know, wasn't feeling myself.

00:23:52.000 And the first round, when he knocked me down, like, I fell and I was like, did I slip?

00:24:00.000 Like, what exactly knocked me down, made me fall?

00:24:03.000 Like, this punch?

00:24:04.000 Because I felt the punch, but it wasn't the punch that wound.

00:24:09.000 Knocked me down.

00:24:11.000 So that's when I really get confused at that time.

00:24:14.000 I'm like, damn!

00:24:16.000 What?

00:24:17.000 But this is the thing.

00:24:20.000 From that moment, I get knocked down with a punch that It wasn't that hard.

00:24:27.000 You don't think it was that hard?

00:24:28.000 No.

00:24:29.000 He hit my hand before he hit my face.

00:24:33.000 And I felt it.

00:24:34.000 I felt the punch, but I was on the floor.

00:24:37.000 The first one.

00:24:40.000 And then I get count, then stood up.

00:24:44.000 We finished the round.

00:24:45.000 I went on my corner.

00:24:47.000 But by the time I went on my corner, I never came back from that.

00:24:52.000 I kept going.

00:24:53.000 And I remember being in my corner.

00:24:56.000 And then we were like, don't go on Southpaw.

00:24:59.000 He's waiting you on Southpaw.

00:25:00.000 Do this champ.

00:25:01.000 Do this champ.

00:25:02.000 That was it.

00:25:04.000 From there, I don't remember when I left the stool to get in the second round.

00:25:10.000 Well, that was probably from the big punch in the second round too, right?

00:25:14.000 Yeah, but I'm talking about the first round.

00:25:16.000 Right, but the memory afterwards is always going to be cloudy after a knockout, especially a bad knockout like that.

00:25:23.000 Yeah, but I remember exactly what happened until we get to the store.

00:25:30.000 I remember being there like...

00:25:33.000 I started having blurry vision, like the guy was in front of me, my team was in front of me speaking to me, and then the voice was getting distanced.

00:25:46.000 So you think there was something wrong?

00:25:49.000 I don't know if it was the fatigue, I don't know what was it, but something wasn't right.

00:25:55.000 So something wasn't right on...

00:25:57.000 Forget about the punches he landed.

00:25:59.000 Something else was wrong.

00:26:00.000 Is that what you're saying?

00:26:02.000 Yeah.

00:26:03.000 Something was wrong.

00:26:04.000 Do you think it's something you ate?

00:26:06.000 Do you think it was something that someone gave you?

00:26:10.000 I don't know.

00:26:10.000 I have no proof.

00:26:11.000 I don't know if maybe...

00:26:13.000 Did you get tested after the fight?

00:26:15.000 Maybe it's the fact that I can...

00:26:17.000 I get there at that time.

00:26:20.000 So just the fatigue and the anxiety and all the hours and hours?

00:26:23.000 I don't know if it's the fatigue.

00:26:24.000 Right.

00:26:24.000 Yeah, but something wrong.

00:26:26.000 I wanted to get...

00:26:28.000 First of all, when all those things happen, you are in the moment, you don't get out of the fight and think about, like, go get tested.

00:26:38.000 You process things and then see to understand, to see...

00:26:45.000 How he was wrong.

00:26:49.000 But by the time, they say, I think I need, we have to do like within 12 hours to do like blood or urine, 12 and 24 hours.

00:27:00.000 That was it.

00:27:01.000 So I didn't do that.

00:27:02.000 I can't say it was that.

00:27:05.000 I don't know.

00:27:06.000 But it felt like something was wrong.

00:27:09.000 It wasn't me, yeah.

00:27:11.000 So did it feel like something was wrong, like just plain fatigue or did it feel like something was wrong, like maybe you were poisoned or maybe you were drugged?

00:27:20.000 Plain fatigue.

00:27:21.000 Fatigue.

00:27:22.000 Yeah.

00:27:23.000 So just fatigue.

00:27:24.000 Yeah.

00:27:24.000 On the fatigue aspect.

00:27:26.000 Yeah.

00:27:26.000 Well, this is also an aspect of experience, right?

00:27:30.000 Because this is only your second professional boxing fight.

00:27:32.000 It is.

00:27:33.000 There's things that people do.

00:27:35.000 They do very intelligent things.

00:27:38.000 Like Gervonta Davis, when he fought Ryan Garcia, he made him dehydrate, get down to a low weight, and then there was a clause in the contract where he couldn't gain more than 10 pounds before the fight itself.

00:27:52.000 So he went into the fight dehydrated.

00:27:54.000 Smart.

00:27:54.000 For a guy like Gervonta, who's a huge puncher.

00:27:57.000 So there's things that experienced professionals that have been in the game a long time will get a fighter to agree to that's not in their best interest.

00:28:07.000 And then there's things that they can do to you, like make you wait all day and make you wait around, which will fatigue you.

00:28:14.000 Yeah.

00:28:14.000 But there wasn't a thing or something in the contract that was forcing me to do something.

00:28:21.000 The only thing was to show up on time.

00:28:24.000 Right.

00:28:24.000 So that was everything.

00:28:28.000 Because like… Before all that, the week before, sparring, everything feels good.

00:28:36.000 I spar way more better, way more stronger than what I did on the Fury fight.

00:28:43.000 Even my sparring partner was different at that time.

00:28:47.000 On the Fury fight, we were getting somebody in maybe after the...

00:28:54.000 Six or eight rounds just to weigh me down, but the quality of boxing wasn't that impressive, right?

00:29:03.000 Here, he was different.

00:29:05.000 And I was able to hold.

00:29:07.000 I know that if I had to fall, he would take a little more to get me down.

00:29:14.000 Well, Anthony Joshua's a big puncher.

00:29:16.000 He's a big puncher, and he's fast.

00:29:19.000 He's fast, and he's a one-punch knockout puncher, as opposed to Tyson Fury can knock guys out with one punch, but really he wears guys out.

00:29:27.000 He beats guys up and then takes them out later.

00:29:29.000 Like the Deontay Wilder fight, he beats him up and then he takes him out.

00:29:35.000 Whereas Joshua can take people out with one shot.

00:29:38.000 He's a much bigger, physically much more powerful guy.

00:29:42.000 No, I agree with that and I knew that.

00:29:47.000 I knew that.

00:29:49.000 What would you do differently if you could do the Anthony Joshua fight again?

00:29:54.000 That's the problem.

00:29:58.000 We did everything right.

00:30:00.000 Like...

00:30:01.000 Everything right in preparation?

00:30:03.000 In preparation.

00:30:04.000 We did everything right.

00:30:06.000 You know, sometimes...

00:30:07.000 You know, like when, for example, I fought Stipe.

00:30:13.000 I went back and I could have released a...

00:30:18.000 I could make a whole list of what I did wrong, what I could have done better.

00:30:23.000 And that's why, even after that fight, my next fight again directly was so bad, because I was still working on the list of what I had done wrong.

00:30:32.000 But here, we were very disciplined.

00:30:35.000 We did everything.

00:30:36.000 And everybody was professional.

00:30:38.000 You can't say, this person did this wrong.

00:30:43.000 This should have been like this.

00:30:45.000 This should have been like that.

00:30:49.000 It's so different, too, because you're going from no professional boxing fights to two of the very best, not just in the world, but two of the very best ever.

00:30:59.000 Anthony Joshua, Olympic gold medalist, elite fighter, an incredible athlete.

00:31:05.000 I mean, he's so good.

00:31:06.000 So, did you think, like...

00:31:09.000 At all about having fights with maybe some guys that were below that level to get more experience.

00:31:17.000 Like after the Tyson Fury fight, maybe fighting a guy who's like ranked 15th or 16th, you know.

00:31:25.000 I'd never...

00:31:27.000 Thought about that.

00:31:28.000 You just went for the money.

00:31:29.000 And the money in the big fight.

00:31:31.000 The big fight is obviously...

00:31:32.000 Yes, won the big fight.

00:31:34.000 So, like, for example, after the Tyson Fury fight, if I go for another guy, top 15, like, what's the goal here?

00:31:46.000 I mean, again, I'm not 20 years old, I'm not 25, that I have a plan to grow up the ranking and get to the championship.

00:31:56.000 I won.

00:31:58.000 Just get that money.

00:32:00.000 Yeah, get the money.

00:32:01.000 Get the big fights.

00:32:02.000 The big fight, out of the big fight.

00:32:05.000 So, that was the goal.

00:32:08.000 Yeah, well, you achieved that goal.

00:32:09.000 Because, like, first of all, going to the Tyson Fury fight, you didn't know if there was a plan after that, if there was another fight after that.

00:32:20.000 And then after the Tyson Fury fight, the next fight that you have a call for was an Anthony Joshua fight.

00:32:27.000 Were you trying to get a different fight after the Tyson Fury fight?

00:32:30.000 Like after the Tyson Fury fight, were you trying to get a rematch?

00:32:33.000 Or were you just willing to take whatever they are offering you?

00:32:36.000 The rematch was there.

00:32:37.000 We know we had the rematch, but he was going to fight Yusik first.

00:32:42.000 The thing that's supposed to happen in December, and he couldn't.

00:32:45.000 Right, he got cut.

00:32:46.000 Yeah, he couldn't fight in December.

00:32:48.000 So I wasn't really on something.

00:32:52.000 I was just there, and then I get the offer of Anthony Joshua.

00:32:56.000 Then I'm like, let's go.

00:32:57.000 Hmm.

00:32:58.000 Yeah.

00:32:59.000 So, where do you stand now?

00:33:02.000 What are you planning on doing now?

00:33:04.000 What do I plan on doing now?

00:33:06.000 I think I still have copper in me.

00:33:09.000 Boxing fights?

00:33:10.000 Yeah, copper boxing fights.

00:33:12.000 Yeah, basically boxing fights.

00:33:13.000 I have copper MMA fights, and I think I have anything like I'm going to fight MMA fights by the end of the year with PFL. I'm going to have to fight in Saudi again.

00:33:27.000 Really?

00:33:27.000 Yeah.

00:33:28.000 Well, one of the things that has been discussed that apparently the UFC might be open to because the Saudis throw around so much money is the potential of a joint promotion, a cross promotion with you versus Jon Jones.

00:33:46.000 Make it happen.

00:33:47.000 That is what the world wants to see.

00:33:49.000 Because when you have a guy like yourself that knocks out Stipe, becomes the undisputed UFC heavyweight champion, and then, through negotiation only, decides to relinquish the belt, everybody, even though Jon Jones is the champion now, everybody's like, yeah, but you didn't win the title against the champion.

00:34:06.000 And you were the most compelling fight in the heavyweight division, for sure, for Jon Jones.

00:34:15.000 Well, that's what I wish.

00:34:17.000 But, you know, in these days, this takes a lot more than what I want or what I wish to happen.

00:34:26.000 There's a lot going on.

00:34:27.000 Yeah, there's a lot going on.

00:34:28.000 So tell me, what is the status of your deal with the PFL now?

00:34:33.000 So how does that work?

00:34:35.000 It's working pretty good.

00:34:36.000 We have a good relationship.

00:34:37.000 I have some fights.

00:34:40.000 Again, I will be fighting by the end of the year.

00:34:45.000 Do you know who you're fighting?

00:34:48.000 I think Renan Ferreira is the guy.

00:34:51.000 Yeah.

00:34:52.000 That's the guy that knocked out Ryan Bader.

00:34:54.000 Yeah.

00:34:55.000 He's dangerous.

00:34:56.000 He's dangerous.

00:34:56.000 He's legit.

00:34:57.000 I've been telling people about this guy for, what, almost two years?

00:35:01.000 He's a big dude, too.

00:35:02.000 I said, watch this guy.

00:35:03.000 Yeah.

00:35:04.000 But very athletic.

00:35:05.000 Very athletic, fast.

00:35:07.000 Fast hand, one-two, knee, stuff.

00:35:10.000 Like, very athletic.

00:35:12.000 Yeah.

00:35:13.000 So, I think it's going to be him.

00:35:18.000 And you think that fight will be in Saudi Arabia as well?

00:35:21.000 Yeah, that's what the PFA is working on.

00:35:25.000 Interesting.

00:35:25.000 Do you know when that will take place?

00:35:30.000 October.

00:35:32.000 They're working on October.

00:35:34.000 It's not finalized yet, but they were talking about October 19. Isn't that around the same time the UFC has that big Abu Dhabi card?

00:35:47.000 Can you go to the UFC's website and see what their Abu Dhabi card is?

00:35:52.000 I want to say somewhere around the end of October, there's a big UFC card in Abu Dhabi.

00:36:01.000 25th?

00:36:03.000 October 25th?

00:36:04.000 So October 25th.

00:36:06.000 Yeah.

00:36:07.000 So one week after.

00:36:09.000 Yeah.

00:36:10.000 Interesting.

00:36:11.000 Yeah.

00:36:12.000 I don't know if the UFC has that card finalized.

00:36:14.000 Do they have that card finalized?

00:36:18.000 They always put on a big fight when they go to Abu Dhabi.

00:36:20.000 Abu Dhabi's always a big card.

00:36:22.000 A lot of top-level fighters on that card.

00:36:26.000 Yeah.

00:36:27.000 Even this Riyadh one is going to be a big card.

00:36:31.000 No, I'm sure.

00:36:32.000 If we make it happen, they're going to stack that card.

00:36:35.000 Do you know who else would be on that card with you?

00:36:38.000 Um...

00:36:41.000 Again, it's not finalized yet, but I think Cedrin Dumbay will be on that.

00:36:47.000 Dumbay, I love that dude.

00:36:49.000 I love that dude.

00:36:50.000 I've had him on the podcast before.

00:36:52.000 He's an entertainer too.

00:36:53.000 He's a comedian.

00:36:54.000 He's a comedian.

00:36:55.000 He's crazy.

00:36:56.000 He's funny.

00:36:56.000 He's very funny, but goddamn, he can fight.

00:36:59.000 No, he can fight.

00:37:00.000 How crazy was that fight?

00:37:01.000 He can back up whatever he said.

00:37:03.000 Oh, yeah.

00:37:03.000 He's an elite kickboxer.

00:37:06.000 He trained at my gym in LA. When I had my gym in LA, his trainer came when he did my podcast and he had a workout session.

00:37:15.000 And man, his workout sessions are crazy.

00:37:19.000 It's so cardio intensive.

00:37:21.000 They're doing like sprints on the treadmill and they run to the heavy bag, sprints on the heavy bag, run back to the treadmill.

00:37:29.000 I was like, damn.

00:37:31.000 Like watching that, I was like, no wonder why this guy has a crazy gas tank.

00:37:35.000 Well, he was a champion at Glory for a long time.

00:37:39.000 That wasn't a mistake.

00:37:42.000 He was knocking everybody out.

00:37:43.000 Not just knocking everybody out, but the way he did it.

00:37:46.000 He melted guys.

00:37:47.000 He put pressure on them.

00:37:49.000 Knockout power, but intelligence.

00:37:52.000 Just great technique, but the cardio was crazy.

00:37:56.000 And I remember thinking, this dude doesn't get tired.

00:37:59.000 And then watching him train, I'm like, oh, well, there it is.

00:38:01.000 I mean, he's not just doing normal mitt work.

00:38:05.000 I've seen other guys work out where they do mitt work, they do their things.

00:38:08.000 His stuff is cardio-intensive, man.

00:38:12.000 He wants to have a full gas tank when he gets in there.

00:38:15.000 Yeah, he knows what he's looking for.

00:38:18.000 How crazy was that fight where they called the fight because he stepped on a piece of glass inside the cage?

00:38:23.000 I don't know, man.

00:38:24.000 And I don't even know what that referee was doing.

00:38:27.000 All they had to do was pull it out of his toe.

00:38:29.000 Yeah.

00:38:30.000 He's like, hey, I stepped on something.

00:38:32.000 I stepped on something in my toe.

00:38:33.000 And the referee's like, fight's off!

00:38:34.000 Fight's off!

00:38:34.000 Yeah, I think you stop the fight and you even check the canvas if there's no more piece of glass on the canvas.

00:38:40.000 That should be overturned.

00:38:41.000 Because that was dangerous.

00:38:42.000 It is dangerous.

00:38:44.000 But that should be a no contest.

00:38:46.000 There's no way that should count as a loss.

00:38:48.000 That was a no contest fight.

00:38:50.000 No contest at all.

00:38:51.000 No chance.

00:38:52.000 How the fuck does that other guy get a win?

00:38:54.000 He's not complaining about, like, Ipok or something that didn't happen.

00:38:58.000 Nothing.

00:38:58.000 Piece of a glass.

00:38:59.000 A piece of...

00:38:59.000 And he's pointing to his toe.

00:39:01.000 And he's saying, just let me get it out of my toe.

00:39:03.000 Yeah.

00:39:03.000 Let me get this out of my toe.

00:39:04.000 It shouldn't be there.

00:39:05.000 And you know, things happen.

00:39:07.000 Who knows how it even got in there?

00:39:08.000 Who knows what happened?

00:39:09.000 The odds, just some random freak accident.

00:39:12.000 He steps on something that nobody...

00:39:13.000 You know what it could have been?

00:39:14.000 Stuck to someone's shoe, and someone's walking around the cage with that stuck in their shoe, and it falls out of their shoe, and it sticks in his toe.

00:39:21.000 He stands on it.

00:39:22.000 He gets in his toe, and he just points down.

00:39:24.000 They say, stop the fight!

00:39:25.000 He's like, I lost?

00:39:26.000 He pointed out twice.

00:39:28.000 See if you can find that, Jamie.

00:39:30.000 I was reading someone's explanation of what Mark Goddard did, and they said he did what you're supposed to do.

00:39:35.000 A fighter can't ask for a timeout.

00:39:38.000 No, no, that's wrong.

00:39:39.000 It wasn't a timeout, though.

00:39:40.000 There's a foreign object inside the cage.

00:39:43.000 Yeah, a foreign object.

00:39:45.000 Timidity?

00:39:49.000 This is just someone's explanation.

00:39:51.000 Did they say timidity?

00:39:52.000 That's what this is.

00:39:53.000 Oh, that's ridiculous.

00:39:57.000 See if you can find the footage though, because the footage is so obvious there's something wrong.

00:40:01.000 The referee should just say time, ask him what he's saying.

00:40:04.000 It wasn't like he was in trouble and he was looking for a timeout.

00:40:08.000 Yeah.

00:40:09.000 He was dead in the 50-50 position.

00:40:12.000 Yes, yes, yes.

00:40:13.000 Break the fight.

00:40:13.000 It's not like nobody is losing position.

00:40:15.000 Exactly.

00:40:16.000 So here it is.

00:40:17.000 He's standing there.

00:40:20.000 Yeah.

00:40:20.000 It's not like nobody is losing position from that.

00:40:25.000 It's not like you take a punch, I want to recover from that.

00:40:33.000 Fucking crazy.

00:40:35.000 Yes.

00:40:36.000 No.

00:40:37.000 I just don't understand that at all.

00:40:39.000 I mean, I haven't talked to Mark about it.

00:40:41.000 That wasn't a good decision.

00:40:42.000 I don't understand.

00:40:43.000 I mean, maybe he's hindered by the rules.

00:40:46.000 Maybe that's just what the rules state you have to do when a fighter says you have to stop something for a second.

00:40:50.000 I don't know what the rules are in terms of that.

00:40:53.000 I've never seen that happen before.

00:40:54.000 I've never seen someone step on something inside the octagon and then point down to their foot.

00:40:59.000 I've never seen it.

00:41:00.000 So I don't...

00:41:02.000 But, man, what a shame.

00:41:03.000 But he came after that, and he won.

00:41:05.000 He won his next fight.

00:41:06.000 He's gonna fuck up a lot of people, man.

00:41:08.000 I was bummed out that he went to the PFL. I wanted that guy in the UFC. He can fuck up a lot of people.

00:41:13.000 And, you know, he's got a lot of years on the clock, too.

00:41:16.000 He said he wanted to go to the UFC, and then they give him some sort of contract, and then I'm like, no, bro.

00:41:23.000 They gave him a bad contract?

00:41:24.000 Yeah.

00:41:25.000 That's unfortunate.

00:41:25.000 I think he said that on the tweet, right?

00:41:28.000 I don't know.

00:41:29.000 I don't know.

00:41:31.000 That doesn't make any sense.

00:41:33.000 Well, that's crazy.

00:41:34.000 That guy could be a superstar.

00:41:36.000 He could be a superstar.

00:41:37.000 He's so fun.

00:41:38.000 He's a superstar.

00:41:38.000 Yeah.

00:41:39.000 He's a superstar.

00:41:40.000 The guy filled up the Bessie Arena in Paris.

00:41:43.000 Yes.

00:41:44.000 In France, he's a superstar.

00:41:45.000 Yeah.

00:41:46.000 I mean, and that could translate 100% to the United States and to the rest of the world.

00:41:50.000 I mean, he's that good.

00:41:52.000 He's that good.

00:41:52.000 Yeah.

00:41:53.000 He's one of the best in the world.

00:41:55.000 And the fact that he's over there, just like...

00:41:57.000 Well, great for the PFL. Great for the PFL. But for the UFC, that's a big loss.

00:42:04.000 Anytime you can get an elite kickboxer, and he did a lot of training.

00:42:07.000 He did a lot of training in wrestling, went to AKA, trained there.

00:42:11.000 He's really worked on his takedown defense.

00:42:13.000 He wants something.

00:42:14.000 He definitely wants something, and he's working on it.

00:42:17.000 And the guy has serious discipline and work ethic.

00:42:19.000 And he's just smart, man.

00:42:21.000 And the way he fights, he sets guys up.

00:42:24.000 He talks so much shit before the fight, too.

00:42:26.000 He's fun.

00:42:27.000 Did you watch his first fight at the PFR? Yeah.

00:42:30.000 The guy brought a mattress.

00:42:33.000 Like, what the fuck is this?

00:42:36.000 So Jordan, go to sleep.

00:42:40.000 And he put the guy to sleep in a few seconds.

00:42:43.000 Well, the difference between his level of striking and most guys in that division level of striking is like this.

00:42:49.000 Yeah, there's a huge gap.

00:42:51.000 A giant gap.

00:42:52.000 The other guy was just trying to compensate with their wrestling or jujitsu or something.

00:42:57.000 Exactly.

00:42:58.000 And even if you don't have a better wrestling than him, at least you grab him, you avoid some punch.

00:43:04.000 Yes, and the thing about him is that every fight starts standing up.

00:43:08.000 It's one thing if you're a really good wrestler, you have to take the guy to the ground, but the fight starts standing.

00:43:13.000 With Cedric, the fight starts in his best place.

00:43:18.000 And then you see how he was fighting his second fight?

00:43:20.000 He was very low.

00:43:22.000 He went very low.

00:43:23.000 Like, okay, you're a wrestler?

00:43:25.000 Yeah.

00:43:25.000 Let's see how you're going to get that level changed.

00:43:28.000 Like, I'm already down here.

00:43:31.000 So, getting very...

00:43:33.000 He's very intelligent.

00:43:34.000 Very smart.

00:43:35.000 Very intelligent.

00:43:35.000 And again, his level of striking.

00:43:38.000 And we see that with guys like Alex Pereira, right?

00:43:41.000 Like that level of striking.

00:43:42.000 When you're a glory champion, the level of striking is so high.

00:43:47.000 It's so above the average MMA fighter.

00:43:50.000 And when he gets in there with these guys, they don't want none of that.

00:43:53.000 And then as soon as they start to get a little wrestling defense and stuff like that, they become a trouble.

00:44:01.000 You can't take him down anymore.

00:44:02.000 Exactly.

00:44:03.000 And then you stand in front of him, he smoke you.

00:44:06.000 Yes.

00:44:07.000 What could you do?

00:44:08.000 Well, you see that with Alex Pereira now.

00:44:10.000 His takedown defense is much better.

00:44:12.000 And he keeps getting better.

00:44:13.000 He's evolving so quickly.

00:44:15.000 No, because he's been training.

00:44:17.000 Yeah.

00:44:17.000 He's been training for so long.

00:44:19.000 He's been training for so long, and then he's also training with Glover.

00:44:22.000 Glover Teixeira, who's also a former champion.

00:44:27.000 Glover was a guy that was locked out of America for six years.

00:44:31.000 He couldn't come to America for six years because he had visa issues.

00:44:34.000 And he was like the boogeyman.

00:44:35.000 We would all hear about him in Brazil.

00:44:37.000 Really?

00:44:38.000 Yeah, Glover was like one of those guys, before he entered into the UFC, and I think he wasted his prime, unfortunately, in Brazil.

00:44:47.000 I don't say wasted his prime, but I think his prime years were outside of the United States.

00:44:52.000 That's why when he won the title, he was like 42. 43?

00:44:55.000 43?

00:44:56.000 What exactly is the prime years for a guy that won a title at 44, at 43?

00:45:02.000 You get to the point, you get you to think that maybe 43 is the prime years.

00:45:08.000 If you won the title of that year, right?

00:45:10.000 Yeah, you watch that and I'm like, 43?

00:45:12.000 It's not that old?

00:45:13.000 You know, I think at 43 you can still do something.

00:45:17.000 Yeah, well it depends on the division, right?

00:45:19.000 Like George Foreman won the heavyweight title at 45. Yeah.

00:45:23.000 Yeah.

00:45:25.000 Heavyweight?

00:45:26.000 Different.

00:45:27.000 Yeah, it's different.

00:45:28.000 Because they don't push on that gas, you know.

00:45:31.000 Right, right, right.

00:45:32.000 They throw some punch and move.

00:45:34.000 How old is Cedric?

00:45:36.000 Cedric Dombe?

00:45:37.000 Yeah.

00:45:38.000 Find out how old he is, Jamie.

00:45:39.000 I want to say he's young.

00:45:40.000 Yeah, he's young.

00:45:41.000 He's young.

00:45:42.000 He might be 30 to 30. How old is he?

00:45:44.000 31. That's a good age.

00:45:45.000 At 31. Yeah.

00:45:46.000 Yeah.

00:45:47.000 And with that level of kickboxing, whoo!

00:45:51.000 Empower man, you know like not just like technique but power and endurance like it's a rare combination He has a very very good endurance and extreme power.

00:46:03.000 Yeah, he hit like a deaf guy He's a fucking killer.

00:46:10.000 I'm excited to see what happens.

00:46:11.000 Do you understand the PFL's point system?

00:46:14.000 Do you understand that system?

00:46:16.000 What do you mean?

00:46:17.000 You know how they have points, like if you get a knockout in the first round, you get one point or three points.

00:46:24.000 What the fuck are they doing?

00:46:25.000 Why are they doing that?

00:46:26.000 That's for the regular season.

00:46:27.000 I think it's just to push people for a better fight.

00:46:31.000 Everybody knows that you get a knockout, you deserve something better.

00:46:36.000 You get a finish, you get something.

00:46:38.000 Right, but you can't always get a finish.

00:46:41.000 But what if you're fighting a guy that's like your level?

00:46:43.000 Like you're both elite and you're both fighting in like this incredible fight.

00:46:48.000 You shouldn't be penalized because you can't take out a fighter who's the best in the world in the first round.

00:46:53.000 That seems crazy to me.

00:46:54.000 Yeah, but either way, if you win a fight, you're winning something.

00:46:58.000 Yeah.

00:46:59.000 You just win more.

00:47:01.000 It's like having a win bonus or something.

00:47:04.000 I don't like win bonuses either.

00:47:06.000 I hate win bonuses.

00:47:07.000 Yeah, me too.

00:47:08.000 I don't like win bonuses.

00:47:09.000 I like boxing's setup better, where you have a contractual, you have a contract.

00:47:15.000 You're going to get paid $10 million, whatever it is.

00:47:18.000 That's what you get.

00:47:19.000 You don't get $10 million, but you only get $5 million if a shitty judge gives it to the other guy, which we've seen so many times in the UFC. Guys lose half their paycheck because of a bad decision.

00:47:32.000 Yeah, but who does that benefit?

00:47:35.000 Well, who does it benefit?

00:47:36.000 I don't know who it benefits.

00:47:38.000 I don't think it benefits anybody.

00:47:39.000 I think it's bad for everybody.

00:47:40.000 I think it's bad for the audience because they're like, what?

00:47:43.000 Because it makes them angry.

00:47:44.000 It's bad for the fighter, for sure.

00:47:46.000 If a fighter loses their paycheck, loses half their paycheck because of a bad decision.

00:47:51.000 How about the promotion?

00:47:52.000 I don't even think it's good for the promotion.

00:47:54.000 I think it's unfair.

00:47:55.000 I don't think it makes any sense.

00:47:56.000 At the elite level, everyone's trying to win.

00:48:01.000 They're all trying to win.

00:48:02.000 No one's not trying to win.

00:48:04.000 Absolutely.

00:48:05.000 No one's going to just coast.

00:48:07.000 For the most part, you get there by winning.

00:48:09.000 Yes.

00:48:09.000 The whole thing is the glory of victory.

00:48:12.000 It's what you're trying to do.

00:48:13.000 You're not going to fight less hard.

00:48:15.000 I just don't understand the logic behind it.

00:48:18.000 I think it's a flawed concept.

00:48:19.000 I think it's something that never existed in combat sports before MMA and really shouldn't exist.

00:48:25.000 I think fighters fight their best, especially at the elite level.

00:48:28.000 They fight their best.

00:48:30.000 Yeah, I agree with you because when you lose a fight, At least you should get your full pay on that fight.

00:48:36.000 Yes.

00:48:36.000 But that won't, the loss won't help you, will advantage you on the next fight.

00:48:42.000 Right.

00:48:42.000 You know, on next negotiation.

00:48:44.000 I'm like, oh, you lose two fights in a row.

00:48:47.000 Right.

00:48:47.000 So you don't have a power position anymore.

00:48:50.000 Exactly.

00:48:51.000 But like, just to pick half of your purse because you lose a fight.

00:48:55.000 Yeah.

00:48:56.000 It's crazy.

00:48:57.000 I don't like it at all.

00:48:58.000 No.

00:48:58.000 I don't like it at all.

00:48:59.000 It just doesn't make sense to me.

00:49:01.000 I've heard people try to argue it, and every time they try to make an argument for it, I'm like, I don't get it.

00:49:07.000 It's not fair for the fighters.

00:49:09.000 Fighters only have if they're really lucky.

00:49:12.000 Like, what's the most fights that an elite fighter in the UFC has?

00:49:17.000 Like 50, 45, 50 fights?

00:49:20.000 You know, maybe.

00:49:21.000 50 fights?

00:49:22.000 Maybe.

00:49:23.000 There's a few guys that have that level of fights.

00:49:26.000 Most guys, they top off way less than that.

00:49:29.000 Way, way less.

00:49:31.000 Yeah, way less.

00:49:33.000 By the time you start your career, if you already have an injury, good luck.

00:49:39.000 Good luck to reach 25. Especially ACL surgery, you're out for a year.

00:49:43.000 Shoulder surgery, you're out for a year.

00:49:46.000 Broken hand, you're out for five months.

00:49:48.000 It might never be the same.

00:49:50.000 And most people, it's not like there's an age to start.

00:49:53.000 Like, oh, you start at 20 or 25. Some people will get there at 30, over 30. How old were you when you started training so late?

00:50:02.000 How old were you when you started training?

00:50:06.000 27?

00:50:07.000 Yeah, that's crazy.

00:50:08.000 Yeah, it was 27. But that was only when I could have trained.

00:50:14.000 You only have a certain amount of years.

00:50:16.000 Yeah, but just want to do the best out of those years.

00:50:20.000 Of course, but for you to be fighting on a system that penalizes you if there's a bad judge and you miss half your paycheck.

00:50:29.000 Does the PFL do win bonuses too?

00:50:31.000 Do they do the same thing?

00:50:33.000 I don't know exactly.

00:50:36.000 Your contract is probably different than everybody else's.

00:50:40.000 Yeah, my contract is different.

00:50:43.000 Either way, I wouldn't go for that win bonus stuff.

00:50:49.000 I have nothing against bonus, but don't split my paycheck into talking about winning bonus.

00:50:56.000 No, give me my paycheck.

00:50:58.000 If you want to give a bonus for the win, let's do another deal on that one.

00:51:04.000 Yeah, that makes sense.

00:51:05.000 Yeah, that makes sense.

00:51:07.000 Because whether I lose or I win, I train, I get prepared for the fight, I come, I give everything for that fight.

00:51:16.000 I should get paid.

00:51:17.000 Yes.

00:51:19.000 And the same thing that I give in that fight to lose could have get me to win.

00:51:24.000 Yeah.

00:51:25.000 No, I agree.

00:51:26.000 I agree.

00:51:26.000 And so now the PFL and Bellator are one organization now, right?

00:51:32.000 The PFL acquired Bellator.

00:51:34.000 Is that what's going on?

00:51:35.000 Yes.

00:51:35.000 Do the Saudis have something to do with that as well?

00:51:37.000 Don't they own part of it?

00:51:40.000 They invest in the PFL, yes.

00:51:41.000 In the main PFL, because there's a main PFL, a house PFL that has the PFL and the Bellator now.

00:51:50.000 And now they're having a regional PFL, like the PFL Miner that launched this year, and the PFL Africa that's launching next year.

00:52:00.000 And that's your shirt.

00:52:01.000 Yeah.

00:52:02.000 And so you're a part of that as well, right?

00:52:04.000 Oh yeah, that was the biggest reason for me in that contract.

00:52:10.000 The PFA Africa part was the most important one in that contract.

00:52:17.000 Before that, I was trying to, even to the UFC, I have requested to be like, oh, I want to be the UFC ambassador in Africa.

00:52:25.000 I want to do something out there.

00:52:27.000 I'm like, oh no, we don't know, you know, this is not, we don't.

00:52:30.000 And then I get a PFL, they say, okay, we're doing this, we'll do that.

00:52:34.000 They show me the roadmap, like, okay, we launched PFL Africa 2025, you are the PFL Africa chairman.

00:52:44.000 I'm like, which extent?

00:52:45.000 Because I don't want that bullshit of...

00:52:48.000 Paper chairman or whatever it is.

00:52:50.000 At which extent?

00:52:51.000 What exactly are you seeing in PFR Africa?

00:52:55.000 And then they put it out and show me some elements.

00:53:00.000 I'm like, good.

00:53:01.000 Then I'm on board.

00:53:03.000 Well, that is one good thing about going over to the PFL because you have so much value to them.

00:53:09.000 Like for you coming over, you were the undisputed heavyweight champion of the UFC. You come over to the PFL. Everybody knows who you are.

00:53:18.000 Now it elevates the PFL. So it's nice because it will allow you to do more things.

00:53:24.000 And to be honest, one thing, I have a healthy relationship.

00:53:28.000 You know, it's peaceful.

00:53:30.000 I get to the point of my life that I really get tired or sick of drama.

00:53:38.000 Sometimes I just get into something, find myself in the middle of some drama, and then I just walk away.

00:53:47.000 Whatever you want to say, you might say, I disrespect you.

00:53:51.000 You say, oh, I this, I that.

00:53:54.000 Bro, I don't have so much energy to give into that.

00:53:58.000 So that was part of what was going on with the UFC. There was a lot of drama.

00:54:02.000 And that will take a lot out of you.

00:54:04.000 You get to the point that I'm like, I just want this to be over.

00:54:09.000 I just want to get to be over.

00:54:12.000 Get back to my life.

00:54:14.000 But you're already in the middle.

00:54:16.000 Whether you want to go back, you have to deal with drama.

00:54:19.000 If you have to go forward, you have to deal with drama.

00:54:21.000 So you better keep going forward.

00:54:23.000 Yeah, especially, I mean, like, how much time do you have left, right?

00:54:27.000 I mean, how many more years do you think you're going to be fighting?

00:54:29.000 It doesn't matter.

00:54:30.000 I mean, soon, 38, and I think I'm going to be...

00:54:35.000 I really want to retire in my...

00:54:39.000 As they say, I want to leave the sport before the sport leaves me.

00:54:43.000 Smart.

00:54:44.000 Yeah, so I'm thinking in my average, like, 41. Yeah.

00:54:49.000 So three more years.

00:54:50.000 Yeah, 41 by that.

00:54:53.000 Do you have a thought of how many more boxing fights versus how many more MMA fights you want to do?

00:55:00.000 Not exactly.

00:55:01.000 I think I would take it how it comes.

00:55:04.000 I take it how it comes.

00:55:06.000 And so the next fight will be MMA definitely or maybe boxing?

00:55:12.000 Maybe in a...

00:55:15.000 Maybe in my 40s, I still feel like I have it, you know?

00:55:20.000 If I feel like at 41, I feel like I have it.

00:55:24.000 Well, you keep going a ways to well.

00:55:25.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:55:29.000 Keep regenerating and then take one at a time, you know?

00:55:34.000 But what I really don't want to do is to wake up and go to the gym like I'm forced.

00:55:41.000 If I feel like I have it, or I'm excited, or today is a sparring day, I'm going to get there.

00:55:47.000 Whether I'm going to beat somebody up or they're going to beat me up, either way I'm excited.

00:55:51.000 If I still have that, I keep going.

00:55:54.000 Right, right.

00:55:55.000 But as soon as I don't have that, even if I'm not 40 yet, I think it's a sign, it's a call out.

00:56:02.000 Yeah, well that's intelligent.

00:56:03.000 That's smart.

00:56:04.000 That's the way you phrased it.

00:56:06.000 I like the way you phrased it.

00:56:07.000 Leave the sport before the sport leaves you.

00:56:09.000 Yeah, that's...

00:56:10.000 Because we've all seen guys who hung around too long.

00:56:12.000 I would still always do the sport.

00:56:14.000 I would never really leave the sport.

00:56:16.000 But the competition at that level, you know, you need to be ready.

00:56:20.000 You need to be into it.

00:56:21.000 You need to want to be there.

00:56:23.000 You don't just want to do it because, okay, I have to.

00:56:27.000 No.

00:56:27.000 You don't go play with punches because you have to.

00:56:32.000 No.

00:56:32.000 Right, right, right, right, right.

00:56:33.000 You want to be enthusiastic.

00:56:34.000 Yeah.

00:56:35.000 Yeah.

00:56:35.000 So do you know for sure that you'll be fighting MMA next or is it possible that a big boxing match could present itself and you would do that next?

00:56:44.000 I would say MMA next.

00:56:46.000 Definitely.

00:56:46.000 Yeah, I would say MMA next.

00:56:48.000 Because I'm supposed to fight, it's been over a year, a little over a year now, since the PFR agreement, and then supposed to have a fight in a year.

00:57:01.000 So now we're getting a little out of the timeline, for sure.

00:57:07.000 And by the time we were figuring out who should be my opponent, and I think things are very clear now.

00:57:16.000 Renan Ferreira made himself very clear that he's a challenger that should make the fight.

00:57:26.000 He's the opponent that can make that fight happen.

00:57:28.000 And let's assume you get past that.

00:57:31.000 Will you then decide whether or not you're going to fight MMA next or boxing next?

00:57:36.000 Because one of the things about the PFL is there's not a lot of very compelling challenges for you there, unfortunately.

00:57:45.000 At least now.

00:57:46.000 They could sign some more top fight heavyweights.

00:57:49.000 I mean, who knows what happens with many people.

00:57:52.000 Who knows what happens with Jon Jones?

00:57:53.000 I mean, I don't know.

00:57:54.000 What happens to any of these guys?

00:57:55.000 I mean, he could wind up going to the BFL. Who fucking knows?

00:57:58.000 He could.

00:57:58.000 If they come up with some big money, you know, you could get a lot of people that will be willing to go over there.

00:58:03.000 Yeah.

00:58:05.000 Yeah.

00:58:07.000 I mean, like, after...

00:58:09.000 I think after this fight, I'll see what's happened.

00:58:11.000 I don't really have a clear mind on what will happen.

00:58:16.000 But I will say most likely boxing.

00:58:19.000 Most likely boxing after that?

00:58:20.000 Yeah, most likely boxing.

00:58:21.000 Do you have an opponent in mind?

00:58:24.000 No, absolutely not.

00:58:25.000 We will see the landscape and what I can get.

00:58:29.000 Who I can get.

00:58:32.000 Because my expectation, as you were asking me earlier, how many fighters do I think I can do in MMA or boxing?

00:58:41.000 I think if I get to a good four-fight plan in boxing, I think that could be good.

00:58:54.000 You get a good full fight, and then you build, like, who should be next.

00:59:03.000 That could be my...

00:59:07.000 My potential retirement plan.

00:59:11.000 Well, it sounds like you already made a good amount of money.

00:59:15.000 Yeah, I've made a good amount of money, but you also have to remember that I started this sport for passion.

00:59:24.000 You don't start the sport for the money because at first there's no money.

00:59:29.000 At first it's just punch flying over your head all over and you have to dodge and then fight and not get paid.

00:59:38.000 Fight for free for quite some time.

00:59:43.000 I love the sport.

00:59:44.000 I still love the sport.

00:59:45.000 I love combat sport.

00:59:47.000 I love fighting.

00:59:48.000 And I think I'll do it until I feel like I cannot do it anymore.

00:59:53.000 Is boxing more unique to you because it's a new challenge?

00:59:57.000 Boxing is different to me because even the muscles' memory are not the same.

01:00:08.000 The functionality of my body is not the same.

01:00:11.000 Unlike MMA, I know every single action in MMA, every single moment.

01:00:18.000 I've been there tens of times.

01:00:20.000 I know.

01:00:21.000 I get this.

01:00:24.000 But boxing, you're still like, okay, you know, you might get even in some position and get stressed because you've never been there.

01:00:31.000 You don't know.

01:00:32.000 You have to figure it out.

01:00:34.000 Right.

01:00:34.000 Instead of it being instinctual.

01:00:36.000 Yeah.

01:00:36.000 Until you get there two, three times, then you're like, oh, it's okay.

01:00:42.000 I can deal with it.

01:00:43.000 You know, MMA, I go MMA fight with a knee injury.

01:00:49.000 I'm still like, I get this.

01:00:52.000 But boxing, a little different.

01:00:54.000 You basically know that questioning yourself about if you can handle this.

01:01:01.000 It's not like, I get this.

01:01:03.000 Right, right, right.

01:01:03.000 It's different.

01:01:04.000 There's a lot of thinking because it's a new thing for you.

01:01:07.000 When you trained for boxing, I know you have Dewey Cooper, you have Eric Nixick.

01:01:12.000 Did you bring other people in to help train you in boxing?

01:01:16.000 Yeah, I brought John Bumba from France.

01:01:19.000 He assists Dewey sometimes because he has a very good amateur style, which I think is something that I still need to build in my game.

01:01:35.000 Other than that, I have a trip which is my strength and conditioning coach, so I put those elements down.

01:01:42.000 Did you get a chance to spar any top heavyweights in America?

01:01:48.000 Top heavyweight like who?

01:01:51.000 I would say Carlos Takam.

01:01:56.000 Guido is at top right now.

01:01:58.000 He's my other sparring partner.

01:02:02.000 But in America, not other top...

01:02:08.000 I get Jeremiah Milton as well.

01:02:13.000 But no, the big name in America.

01:02:17.000 Which is even more impressive, your performance against Tyson Fury, when you consider like you really didn't even spar elite heavyweights.

01:02:26.000 Listen, I think sometimes we don't give credit to some people because they don't just have a name.

01:02:34.000 Because they haven't had a stage to play on.

01:02:41.000 And we think like, oh, he's nobody.

01:02:44.000 Oh, he's not an elite.

01:02:45.000 Let me take you some example.

01:02:47.000 Before Andy Ruiz fought Anthony Joshua, would you think about him as an elite fighter?

01:02:54.000 No, a lot of people had no idea.

01:02:56.000 But he was still there and he was just good at as he is right now.

01:03:01.000 But because he didn't have the scene to be seen, to be exposed, so nobody cared about him.

01:03:07.000 And if you say, oh, I spar with N.G. Reese, I'm like, yes, but you haven't sparred with N.G. Reese.

01:03:12.000 You see?

01:03:13.000 Yes.

01:03:13.000 And there's a lot of people like that out there.

01:03:16.000 Right.

01:03:17.000 A lot of people that haven't got their shot yet.

01:03:18.000 Yeah, they haven't got their shot, but they are there.

01:03:21.000 They are present.

01:03:21.000 They are elite.

01:03:22.000 Well, when you first made your way and, you know, when you told that story on the podcast of your journey leaving Cameroon and making your way and getting turned back so many times, when you first arrived and you finally got to France, you wanted to be a boxer.

01:03:40.000 No, even before I left, I wanted to be a boxer.

01:03:44.000 Even decades before I left, I wanted to be a boxer.

01:03:47.000 That wasn't even a question.

01:03:49.000 I always knew what I wanted.

01:03:52.000 So when it finally went full circle and you became a boxer again, did it feel like, oh, this is how it was supposed to be?

01:03:59.000 I was living my dream.

01:04:01.000 There is no way that, I don't think there is a way that things are supposed to be.

01:04:05.000 You get what you get and then you be grateful and then you make the best out of it.

01:04:13.000 So I was living the dream.

01:04:15.000 I ended up having the fight, having to fight two best boxers in the world.

01:04:25.000 After having a great MMA career, not bad for me, a guy coming from where I came from.

01:04:31.000 No, it's amazing.

01:04:32.000 Basically from having the path that I had.

01:04:37.000 And who knows?

01:04:38.000 Some good things might still happen.

01:04:40.000 Oh, some good things I'm sure will still happen.

01:04:42.000 But your path is incredible, and I encourage anybody that hasn't heard it to go back and listen to the first podcast you and I did together, where you explained it.

01:04:52.000 I was stunned.

01:04:53.000 I remember for the rest of the day, all I could think about was your story and how insane it is that what you had to go through to finally make it to Europe.

01:05:03.000 Incredible story.

01:05:04.000 You know, just as I was saying earlier, because some people haven't been exposed, they haven't got a big stage, like they don't care about them.

01:05:17.000 There are a lot of people out there with a better story than mine, with a better, stronger than mine, that even me, I'm impressed.

01:05:25.000 I'm like, bro, how do you do that?

01:05:27.000 I don't think I could have done that, you know?

01:05:30.000 But, and there are a lot, you know, like one or like two, three, a lot of people, you know?

01:05:36.000 But I think I happen to be the one that have The scene and have been exposed.

01:05:42.000 My story has been exposed to the world.

01:05:45.000 You went through that struggle.

01:05:47.000 I have the Joe Rogan experience to tell my own story, which they don't have.

01:05:52.000 Well, I'd be happy to have them on too if they had a story like yours and the success that you've had from that.

01:05:58.000 It's very inspiring and it speaks to the human spirit.

01:06:02.000 Because that's what people love to hear about someone who did not give up and struggled so hard.

01:06:09.000 How many times did you get sent back?

01:06:11.000 Seven, eight times?

01:06:13.000 Six times.

01:06:14.000 In the ocean, six times.

01:06:19.000 And then I made it the seventh time.

01:06:22.000 Crazy.

01:06:23.000 Seven is a magic number.

01:06:25.000 It is a magic number, right?

01:06:27.000 It's a lucky number.

01:06:28.000 I made it the seventh number.

01:06:28.000 Yeah.

01:06:29.000 It's an incredibly inspirational story.

01:06:32.000 And I love the fact that you're dedicated to doing this thing in Africa now and to give more people an opportunity and to give them a path towards a career.

01:06:46.000 You know, regardless of what you might think of my life, I think I'm a very blessed guy.

01:06:56.000 I think I'm a very lucky guy.

01:06:58.000 First of all, I think even when I explain, you might not really understand where I came from.

01:07:06.000 And to imagine that I'm here today, Calling a shot, bro.

01:07:11.000 It's crazy.

01:07:13.000 It's just insane.

01:07:16.000 So I think I'm a very lucky guy.

01:07:19.000 God has really blessed me.

01:07:22.000 And then I also think those blessings come with a lot of opportunity that I can bring back.

01:07:30.000 Because when I was there for so many times, I can't tell you how many times that my hope It was to somebody to come do something.

01:07:40.000 To some good Samaritan to take some action that I would take advantage of.

01:07:46.000 Then it happened that I have been blessed to be the guy that can do that.

01:07:53.000 And even without taking anything out of me.

01:08:02.000 So I'm like...

01:08:06.000 He will be a sin not to do something.

01:08:12.000 For example, for the PFA Africa, my dream about that, what gets me excited about that is just seeing myself not have to leave Africa as I did and then have to compete in a good platform like that, have to make a living, have to fight in the world-class fighter in that level and just stay home.

01:08:36.000 I don't have to risk all this life, go through all this stuff, through the ocean, the barbwire, the prison stuff that I've been through to do that.

01:08:47.000 I just have to stay home and do that.

01:08:50.000 So now, it's a platform that's going to give opportunity to many people that maybe have a plan to go through that same path and that might not have made it.

01:09:04.000 They're just doing it at home.

01:09:06.000 That's beautiful.

01:09:07.000 How could you not think of doing something like that when you have an opportunity?

01:09:12.000 And it's not like, oh, it's a war that they carry and put on your head and a burden that you have to carry.

01:09:19.000 It's an opportunity that you can just help participate and make it happen.

01:09:23.000 So tell me, how does this play out?

01:09:26.000 Do you establish gyms in Africa?

01:09:29.000 Are you going to put a gym in Cameroon?

01:09:31.000 How are you going to do this?

01:09:32.000 I have two gyms in Cameroon already.

01:09:35.000 Oh, you do?

01:09:35.000 Yeah, through my foundation.

01:09:36.000 I have one gym for six years now.

01:09:41.000 Oh, wow.

01:09:41.000 Yeah, and then the second gym has been around for almost two years.

01:09:45.000 And we built that one with a partner.

01:09:48.000 I mean, a partner helped us to build.

01:09:51.000 They like our project with the foundation, and then they joined us, Premier Bet.

01:09:58.000 They joined us to that, to build that gym for us.

01:10:02.000 A very big, big-ass gym.

01:10:06.000 So we have that too and we were in the project to build the third one.

01:10:09.000 But with the PFL, one thing that I requested and then it was granted was that everywhere that we're going to do, we're going to try to build gyms around.

01:10:21.000 Because yes, it's good to bring PFL, to bring competition around.

01:10:25.000 But remember, so many of those people, they have nothing.

01:10:30.000 Many of those kids that want to fight, They might be training on the beach.

01:10:36.000 They don't really have a gym to train at, but yet you're expecting them to compete at the highest level.

01:10:44.000 So it's at least good to have a system that will help them.

01:10:49.000 It's like having a garden.

01:10:52.000 Right.

01:10:53.000 Yeah, having a garden to create talent that you need for your organization, you know.

01:11:00.000 So, helping them to help you because at the end of the day, you need talent.

01:11:06.000 At the end of the day, talent needs organization.

01:11:09.000 So, the thing is that with PFA Africa, we're going to build gyms That fighter will use and develop and then we're going to also help get experienced coaches that can go and teach and also teach another coach how to properly train at that coach at that level, stuff like that.

01:11:37.000 That's the goal.

01:11:39.000 It's about building something.

01:11:41.000 It's not like here that you come and everything is established and you have your promotion and go.

01:11:47.000 No.

01:11:47.000 It's like building something, working from the grassroots.

01:11:53.000 Yeah.

01:11:54.000 That's beautiful.

01:11:54.000 So Africa is obviously a huge continent and there's so many countries in it.

01:11:59.000 Full of talent.

01:12:00.000 What is the scene like in Africa right now in terms of like what are the local promotions and how many of them are there and how many like how many like young talented fighters do you see that are coming out of there that could eventually come over to PFL or the UFC or Bellator or 1FC or any of the large organizations?

01:12:21.000 Okay.

01:12:22.000 So you asked me the question, like many Americans, what is the scene in Africa?

01:12:27.000 In the different countries.

01:12:28.000 Africa is 52 countries.

01:12:30.000 Right.

01:12:30.000 And I've never been in five of them.

01:12:35.000 So I know South Africa has a large scene.

01:12:37.000 You know, obviously, Drekka's Duplicy is from South Africa.

01:12:40.000 There's a lot of good fighters from South Africa.

01:12:41.000 They have an organization that I think is EFC, something like that.

01:12:45.000 Nigeria has been doing good.

01:12:47.000 They also have, I think it's African Knockout that Ousmane Kamaru is part of.

01:12:54.000 And there are also some regional organizations that might be smaller or not quite popular.

01:13:03.000 Is there one large organization over there at all?

01:13:06.000 No, not yet.

01:13:07.000 So most of them are fairly small?

01:13:09.000 Yeah, because again, you have to build everything from the scratch.

01:13:13.000 So everybody is trying to do the best out of what you get.

01:13:19.000 To have a good organization, you need to build a gym, you need to give those fighters a way to train, you need to help them get experience, get training, even get top coaches, and then more people training, at least they have training partners, Which is not, they don't have.

01:13:40.000 You have seen, I have seen a lot of some African fighters that are really good, but they don't have, they'll have to go somewhere else because they don't have training partners, you know.

01:13:50.000 But with this program, they're going to have, it's going to be a whole ecosystem.

01:13:57.000 A health ecosystem in the fact that you're going to have a gym that you're going to train and then maybe provide a fighter who's going to fight in a promotion and that might have money and then that money will attract people, you know, will attract other people to training because he has seen other ones making a living out of training.

01:14:20.000 He has seen that it's possible.

01:14:22.000 He has seen the opportunity right next to his door.

01:14:25.000 Right.

01:14:26.000 They are here.

01:14:27.000 I don't have to travel.

01:14:28.000 It's not in America anymore.

01:14:30.000 It's not in Europe anymore.

01:14:31.000 Right.

01:14:32.000 It's here.

01:14:32.000 I just have to stay here and get dedicated.

01:14:34.000 So it's possible.

01:14:36.000 And it's interesting, too, if the PFL has a, I mean, if they establish PFL Africa, the beautiful thing is that if they have top level fights over there and then they take those fights and they broadcast them all over the world, then there's so much opportunity.

01:14:51.000 Yes.

01:14:52.000 I mean, the fighter of PFL Africa will not only be seen in Africa.

01:15:00.000 Not to mention that the champions of the PFL Africa, just as PFL MENA and PFL Europe, they will all come together to fight for the main PFL title.

01:15:13.000 That's exciting.

01:15:14.000 Everybody is getting that big stage.

01:15:18.000 They are all still under the main PFA, which is something that is very interesting.

01:15:28.000 And then we give more spotlight, more opportunity.

01:15:34.000 Also get attention of media.

01:15:38.000 And then who says media says attention of sponsor that will go maybe to gym, to fighters, and that will create an ecosystem around that media interests.

01:15:50.000 Sponsor come around, and then fighter get paid, and then maybe his sparring partner get paid, or I don't know, he has an assistant or somebody working for him get paid, and the money is now in the loop.

01:16:05.000 Yeah.

01:16:06.000 Do you see yourself, after you retire from fighting, going into a coaching and mentoring role for fighters?

01:16:15.000 Do you see yourself being more of an executive position, like working with either the PFL or whoever?

01:16:24.000 I never see myself as a coach.

01:16:26.000 I don't have a vocation for that.

01:16:30.000 It's not something that I'm looking forward to.

01:16:36.000 Although, I see myself, like, maybe stay in the spot somewhere, like, I also don't see myself as a manager.

01:16:46.000 That's a hard job.

01:16:50.000 A lot of bullshit.

01:16:52.000 A lot of bullshit.

01:16:55.000 Like, I just think that to be a good, it's a job that you think to be good at it, you need to be screwing somebody.

01:17:05.000 Right.

01:17:06.000 Most likely.

01:17:07.000 Not always, but most likely.

01:17:09.000 Might be on the table.

01:17:13.000 I don't see myself like that, but I see myself really working on the growth of the sport, basically in Africa.

01:17:23.000 And again, that's why the PFA Africa comes to me like the right thing.

01:17:28.000 Yeah.

01:17:29.000 You know, the retirement plan.

01:17:33.000 Things that I could be focused on, be working on.

01:17:37.000 I know how Africa works perfectly.

01:17:39.000 I know how PFA works perfectly.

01:17:42.000 I know Pete Murray and Don Davis.

01:17:45.000 They are very excited about it.

01:17:46.000 But bro, they are white people from America and they don't know how Africa works.

01:17:54.000 I am from Africa, and I know the deep ground of Africa, and I know the challenge there.

01:17:59.000 I know the problem there as an athlete, and I think that's where I will impact.

01:18:04.000 I think a role of an executive will be like, it's some fancy thing that, yes, I might have, but I think my good job is to work on the field, because I know the problem on the field, the route.

01:18:18.000 And the problem there, what could be done, what needs to be done, what they need.

01:18:25.000 I think that's what I would be best at.

01:18:29.000 Also, for young fighters.

01:18:31.000 Yeah, it's cool to be chairman of PFR Africa, but I'm not going to sit in the office, I'm like, oh, I'm a chairman, and then wear suit and tie every day to run staff.

01:18:44.000 No, it doesn't seem like it.

01:18:47.000 But I think, like, for you, for a young fighter, there's no greater source of inspiration than a guy like yourself.

01:18:55.000 I mean, if you look at your career, you've only been fighting for 10 years.

01:19:00.000 Look at all you've accomplished.

01:19:01.000 UFC heavyweight champion, fought two of the best boxers alive, you're an international superstar, you made millions of dollars.

01:19:09.000 Like, that is the height of inspiration.

01:19:12.000 Don't say that on mic, Joe.

01:19:13.000 Sorry.

01:19:14.000 Everybody knows.

01:19:15.000 Yeah, but when you say that out loud, maybe you get some lawsuit.

01:19:20.000 You know, money is like honey.

01:19:24.000 You always attract bees.

01:19:27.000 That's so true.

01:19:28.000 That's so true.

01:19:29.000 A lot of stingers out there.

01:19:31.000 Hmm, so let's forget about the money, but just look at the accomplishment and just knowing that you came and especially again if someone hears your story of how hard it was for you to literally essentially walk from Cameroon to Morocco and then make it all the way over to Europe and then make a career and fight it and then make it to the United States Get into the UFC and then in a matter of a few short years become the UFC heavyweight champion for young fighters that's like That guy did it.

01:20:01.000 He did it.

01:20:03.000 He came from where I came from.

01:20:05.000 I can do it now.

01:20:07.000 Once someone has done it, it makes it more accessible, at least mentally, to a lot of people.

01:20:12.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:20:13.000 And I think that's the fundamental idea about my foundation.

01:20:20.000 The reason why I did the foundation, for me, he was just so, not only those kids can have access in the gym, which is something that me growing up, I was just dreaming about it.

01:20:33.000 The only gym that I have seen until I was 22 was the gym that I saw, whether in my dream or in the TV. I never see a real gym, even though I always want to do combat sport.

01:20:44.000 But I thought, like, if you build, like, Night Gym, not only those kids have access, it makes them have this feeling, this connection with reality, like, oh, the thing that I always see in TV is here, it's possible, you know, and then the guy that maybe I have seen on TV or heard about, he's also here, like, he's around, he came here, so it's possible, you know, because...

01:21:14.000 So the idea of the foundation was just to motivate kids, allow them to believe in themselves.

01:21:20.000 And I think it's still what we're working on, to help them believe, trust, have a trust in themselves, a self-believing, have a self-confidence in themselves.

01:21:32.000 And this doesn't matter what they want to do in life.

01:21:34.000 You might want to be a doctor, you might want to be a lawyer, accountant.

01:21:39.000 Journalist, whatever you want to do, but I do think that a guy that believes, somebody that believes in himself, success for that guy is just a matter of time.

01:21:51.000 And you can be a champion in whatever you do.

01:21:54.000 You don't have to be a fighter to become a champion.

01:21:58.000 I'm glad you brought that up because there's another question I wanted to ask you.

01:22:01.000 Do you have any other aspirations of doing things outside of fighting once you've retired?

01:22:05.000 Because one of the things you were talking to Jamie about before the show started was producing.

01:22:09.000 You were talking about production, like film and filming things.

01:22:14.000 Do you have other aspirations?

01:22:16.000 I have a lot of aspirations, but not like a job.

01:22:19.000 I have a lot of passion.

01:22:21.000 I'm passionate about a lot of things.

01:22:23.000 Today, I have quite a resource to have some hobbies.

01:22:31.000 You know, stuff that I'm excited about, I'm passionate about.

01:22:36.000 I create a small production in Cameroon, in my village, just to train kids so they can have to touch cameras like this.

01:22:45.000 All those stuff that we have here, I have it back home.

01:22:49.000 They touch, they learn on it.

01:22:50.000 You know, I just want them to be able to operate a good camera.

01:22:54.000 If somebody wants to do a movie, they have somebody that can operate a nice camera, just home.

01:23:01.000 They don't need to go to Europe or in America to bring people, because local, they can do, and they have been trained on good cameras.

01:23:12.000 So I have started stuff like that a lot.

01:23:15.000 What inspired you to do that, in terms of cameras and production and stuff?

01:23:20.000 I always love cameras.

01:23:21.000 I always love, I see, and I always impress, and then I see stuff here, and then I see the challenge, the difference that are, you know, like you see somebody that make a film, a movie that might be on Netflix with a very low quality of camera, then I'm like, what if this guy has access on a good camera?

01:23:46.000 What can he do?

01:23:47.000 Right.

01:23:47.000 Well, that's one of the things you were talking about with fighters, that there's a lot of people out there that are very talented that just haven't had their shot yet.

01:23:56.000 Absolutely.

01:23:56.000 There's a lot of people like that with filmmaking and with stand-up comedy and writing, literature.

01:24:03.000 Everything.

01:24:03.000 Yeah, they just haven't had their opportunity.

01:24:05.000 And I always say this.

01:24:06.000 I think we might have become the first African champion just because there wasn't so many people that have a chance.

01:24:19.000 I mean, like, when you look at Kamaru, Adesanya, I, I'm sure if you go to Africa, you can find some motherfucker who can beat us up.

01:24:32.000 But lucky us, you didn't have that chance yet, so...

01:24:36.000 That's very humble of you.

01:24:37.000 We took the opportunity, right?

01:24:41.000 But you open the door, though, and it makes it possible for others, which is one of the more important things about accomplishment.

01:24:47.000 But when time goes by, the challenge will become tougher and tougher, and we will come around, and we might come very short.

01:24:55.000 Well, look at Brazil.

01:24:56.000 You know?

01:24:57.000 I mean, look at Brazil.

01:24:58.000 There's so many champions, so many elite fighters coming out of Brazil now.

01:25:02.000 It's because Hoist Gracie opened that door, and then the UFC just became a place for it.

01:25:07.000 And then if you take even that Roy Gracie on his prime, put him here, He's going to get beat up, maybe by some kickboxing.

01:25:15.000 But he was the one that opened that door, that gave that opportunity, that made the path through that.

01:25:25.000 Yeah, it's just, it's so important that you recognize that.

01:25:30.000 That like, your position is not just as an individual, but your position is as an inspiration to others.

01:25:37.000 And to give people this, this, they see it.

01:25:41.000 Like, I can do it.

01:25:42.000 He did it.

01:25:43.000 It's possible.

01:25:45.000 Yeah, I think in life we take every opportunity that we have.

01:25:50.000 We get to the point again that we have an opportunity to affect other life.

01:25:57.000 How many people affect other life?

01:25:59.000 How many people in their lifetime walk around and parents walk to their mom like, oh my kid want to be like you.

01:26:06.000 Right.

01:26:09.000 I think it's something really cool.

01:26:11.000 It's really great.

01:26:12.000 It's very cool.

01:26:13.000 Like a parent that wants the best for their kids.

01:26:16.000 Yes, kids want to be like you.

01:26:18.000 Yes, it's different because he's not very smart.

01:26:21.000 He's not wise.

01:26:22.000 And even kids want to do some dumb shit.

01:26:26.000 So you might be a bad guy and kids still want to be like you.

01:26:29.000 A drug dealer.

01:26:30.000 But a parent that's really protective about their kids, like, want the best for their kids...

01:26:38.000 And then they'll come like, oh, your son is such an inspiration.

01:26:43.000 My kid wants to be like you.

01:26:44.000 So that's basically him approving that his kid should be like you.

01:26:51.000 He hopes for his kid to become like you.

01:26:53.000 That's a big statement, which is pretty cool.

01:26:56.000 Yeah, it is pretty cool.

01:26:57.000 It's really cool.

01:26:58.000 It's really cool and there's such a unique time for people too because internet is available pretty much all over the world now.

01:27:06.000 So kids in all these countries, especially if they have phones, they have access to all of this information.

01:27:14.000 And it's messy.

01:27:15.000 It's coming from all over.

01:27:17.000 And they can find everything.

01:27:21.000 Everything.

01:27:22.000 Now, how to help them pick what's good and what's not good?

01:27:29.000 Right.

01:27:30.000 That's the problem.

01:27:31.000 Yeah.

01:27:31.000 Because information is good, but...

01:27:34.000 A lot of it's bullshit.

01:27:36.000 Yeah.

01:27:36.000 A lot of it is bullshit.

01:27:37.000 You have to filter.

01:27:39.000 Because some of them are just bad seed.

01:27:42.000 Yeah, that's true too.

01:27:44.000 Have you seen what's happening in the Amazon?

01:27:48.000 There's this very small, uncontacted tribe and they got internet access.

01:27:54.000 And now a lot of them are just on their phones all day.

01:27:58.000 And then the tribe leaders are like, well, what the fuck?

01:28:00.000 Everyone's lazy.

01:28:00.000 You guys are becoming like Americans now.

01:28:02.000 You're just on your phone all day.

01:28:04.000 They're looking at tits and looking at porn and like, you know.

01:28:08.000 Of course.

01:28:09.000 And this thing that they thought would be a beautiful thing, oh, this would be so great.

01:28:14.000 We're going to get access to information.

01:28:15.000 People are going to get educated.

01:28:17.000 Instead, you know, a lot of them are just looking at TikTok videos.

01:28:22.000 Yeah, but...

01:28:23.000 They got to have to figure out how to manage that.

01:28:25.000 Educated people, for the most part, are lazy.

01:28:27.000 Really?

01:28:28.000 You think so?

01:28:29.000 Yeah.

01:28:29.000 I think people, for the most part, are lazy if you give them an opportunity to be lazy.

01:28:35.000 No.

01:28:36.000 It's hard to be disciplined, especially if you don't have examples of other disciplined people around you.

01:28:42.000 You know, some people might just have been educated, keep going to school.

01:28:49.000 Because they choose school over work.

01:28:52.000 That's true.

01:28:53.000 And some people choose work over school.

01:28:55.000 That's true as well, yeah.

01:28:56.000 And then you go to school, and after being graduated or have your PhD, and then you're like, oh, he's educated.

01:29:04.000 He's this.

01:29:05.000 In fact, you were running away from a job.

01:29:08.000 Ha ha ha!

01:29:11.000 I'm sure that's educators.

01:29:13.000 That's the problem with our universities.

01:29:15.000 Those people, why not teach?

01:29:17.000 At the end of the day, yes, you are educated, but in reality, you are lazy.

01:29:24.000 If you have a job that is going to wear a suit and act like a boss every day, you can't do it.

01:29:31.000 But if you have to start something and work really hard, you can't stand it.

01:29:37.000 Right.

01:29:37.000 Yeah, you can't stand it.

01:29:38.000 There's a lot of truth in that.

01:29:42.000 also be a worker because they had a vision, they want to do that, they're excited of a knowledge to implement into something, and then after that, they just start a business, and this, you know, because starting a business is never easy.

01:29:57.000 Right.

01:29:57.000 You have to be a worker.

01:29:58.000 When you start a business, it's not like a nine to five job, you know, you don't have Sometimes you have to wake up at midnight or at 2 a.m.

01:30:10.000 to pick up a call because this guy is, I don't know, in China, in Europe, and the time is different, and you have to keep going.

01:30:17.000 You have to be on this time.

01:30:19.000 You have to be in a meeting at this time.

01:30:23.000 So that's where you know if you're a worker or not.

01:30:26.000 But if you sit at the office, 9 to 7, wear your suit, I'm a manager of this, I'm that, I'm that.

01:30:34.000 You might be lazy.

01:30:37.000 And lazy people do a good job too because lazy people find a strategy of avoiding work.

01:30:45.000 That's true!

01:30:46.000 Which is very intelligent.

01:30:48.000 Yes!

01:30:49.000 Yeah, they find ways.

01:30:50.000 Yes, that's true.

01:30:51.000 To get things done without really putting in the work.

01:30:54.000 That is true.

01:30:55.000 Yeah, there's so many books like that.

01:30:57.000 The 4-Hour Work Week, you know?

01:30:58.000 Yeah.

01:30:59.000 There's a lot of books on people just trying to avoid work.

01:31:01.000 Yeah.

01:31:02.000 But they still have to move to wash their dishes, their clothes.

01:31:07.000 Like dishwasher, for example.

01:31:10.000 I think it's the idea of some lazy person that didn't want to wash dishes.

01:31:17.000 Are you agree with me?

01:31:18.000 So a lazy person didn't want to wash dishes, so they hired a dishwasher.

01:31:22.000 No, they invented.

01:31:23.000 Oh, they invented a dishwasher.

01:31:25.000 Oh, a machine.

01:31:25.000 Yeah, they thought about it.

01:31:27.000 Like, how can I get my dishes clean without having to wash it?

01:31:31.000 Also, it's more efficient because you can put them in the dishwasher.

01:31:35.000 No, it's efficient, but the idea comes from laziness.

01:31:40.000 Interesting, interesting.

01:31:41.000 I mean, he might be.

01:31:42.000 I'm not saying he's the thing, but he might be coming from laziness.

01:31:45.000 No, no, no, you have a point.

01:31:46.000 You have a point.

01:31:46.000 I don't want to wash my clothes anymore.

01:31:49.000 How can I? But I still need to wear a clean clothes.

01:31:52.000 Right.

01:31:53.000 How can I do to get my clothes clean without washing them?

01:31:58.000 Wash machine.

01:31:59.000 Make a machine.

01:32:02.000 That's true, right?

01:32:03.000 Because you only wear like one piece of clothes a day, and you only use one plate when you eat.

01:32:10.000 How hard is it to wash that one plate?

01:32:12.000 It takes 30 seconds.

01:32:14.000 You get some soap, you get a sponge, rinse it off, put it in the dryer, you're done.

01:32:21.000 That's a good point, man.

01:32:22.000 I never thought of it that way.

01:32:24.000 I get in my house, and this is something that I still don't understand.

01:32:28.000 Sometimes I'll leave plates around, and then if I have my housekeeping coming, they'll always take them and put them in the dishwasher, and everything in the dishwasher.

01:32:42.000 And I don't know what happens.

01:32:44.000 If it's the dishwasher, something wrong with it, it never gets things cleaned.

01:32:49.000 Properly.

01:32:50.000 Well, you kind of have to clean them before you put them in the dishwasher, which is crazy.

01:32:54.000 Because if you just cleaned them a little bit more, you wouldn't have to put them in the dishwasher.

01:32:57.000 You'd probably save time.

01:32:58.000 Okay.

01:32:59.000 Personally, I never use a dishwasher.

01:33:01.000 I don't know how it works.

01:33:03.000 The easier thing for me is after using one or two plates, I wash it, I put it there.

01:33:10.000 Yeah.

01:33:11.000 It's easier.

01:33:12.000 Or even if I stack, like, three, four plates after I come, take five minutes, clean it, put it there.

01:33:20.000 Yeah.

01:33:21.000 It's easier for me than running machine and this, which I don't even know how it works too much, and sometimes it might be loud.

01:33:29.000 I just want to watch my TV, and that shit is running behind me.

01:33:34.000 True.

01:33:36.000 That's true.

01:33:37.000 Yeah, that's true.

01:33:38.000 That's a good point.

01:33:39.000 Yeah.

01:33:39.000 That is a lazy person's invention.

01:33:42.000 A smart, lazy person.

01:33:44.000 Yeah.

01:33:45.000 People are very creative.

01:33:48.000 Very.

01:33:50.000 I never thought about it that way, but I think you're right.

01:33:53.000 Yeah.

01:33:54.000 But then there's some things like vacuum cleaner.

01:33:56.000 You need that.

01:33:57.000 How the fuck are you going to get anything out of a carpet without a vacuum cleaner?

01:34:01.000 You need that.

01:34:02.000 Yeah.

01:34:02.000 There's some inventions that clean that make sense.

01:34:05.000 But I think...

01:34:06.000 No, no.

01:34:06.000 I mean, everything makes sense.

01:34:07.000 Yeah.

01:34:08.000 Even, like, a washing machine makes sense.

01:34:11.000 Yeah.

01:34:11.000 You know, after training, you come, you put your clothes there, you train twice a day, you put your clothes after two days, you press that button on the machine when you're leaving.

01:34:24.000 Yeah.

01:34:24.000 Because it starts out.

01:34:26.000 Yeah.

01:34:26.000 Come back, it's done, you put it in the dryer again.

01:34:29.000 Yeah.

01:34:32.000 Yeah.

01:34:32.000 No, that's a very good point, though, about inventions and also about how lazy people avoid work and about a lot of educated people are just avoiding work by continuing their education.

01:34:43.000 I know personally people that have done that.

01:34:45.000 They get their PhD.

01:34:46.000 They get grants.

01:34:47.000 They get loans.

01:34:48.000 Oh no, you go in like a family house, and then there are like maybe four kids.

01:34:56.000 There's dishes, they have to clean the house, and then someone have a homework.

01:35:03.000 And even if he does have a homework, he's reading a book.

01:35:07.000 He's in the middle of the book.

01:35:08.000 So that means he's not cleaning anything.

01:35:12.000 Because it's reading.

01:35:13.000 You guys are not reading.

01:35:14.000 You have to clean.

01:35:16.000 So how easy is that?

01:35:18.000 Well, people love to put off things they're supposed to do.

01:35:22.000 It's an interesting thing, too, about fighters.

01:35:25.000 Because the difference between...

01:35:26.000 There's a lot of factors involved in being a fighter.

01:35:29.000 There's the mentality.

01:35:31.000 There's the ability to focus and to perform under pressure.

01:35:34.000 It's very difficult to do.

01:35:36.000 But there's also the ability to prepare properly.

01:35:39.000 So like to have the discipline to do everything that you're supposed to do.

01:35:43.000 And it's even more difficult sometimes for talented people.

01:35:47.000 Yeah, I think fighting is more about discipline.

01:35:52.000 Because not always talented people will make it.

01:35:56.000 And you might have talent as much as you want if you don't work, if you don't put some work in and then get discipline.

01:36:04.000 You will not get there.

01:36:06.000 If you look like the champions of every weight class, every promotion, most likely they are not the most talented guys.

01:36:18.000 But they are very hard workers.

01:36:21.000 And they have something very special that distinguishes them.

01:36:27.000 Do you know the expression, hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard?

01:36:33.000 Yeah.

01:36:35.000 That's it.

01:36:35.000 That's true.

01:36:36.000 Yeah, it is.

01:36:36.000 Absolutely.

01:36:38.000 One of the things that's unfortunate about talent is that when you're talented, you're better than everybody else in the gym.

01:36:44.000 And so you can kind of get away without.

01:36:46.000 Training is hard.

01:36:46.000 Maybe you have physical gifts.

01:36:48.000 Maybe you just have an understanding of fighting.

01:36:50.000 And then you take it for granted because you didn't have to work to get it.

01:36:53.000 You don't even have the feeling that you need to work more to improve it because he was just there.

01:37:00.000 So you don't even understand that they work for it.

01:37:04.000 You just happen to have it.

01:37:07.000 And then they say you have to work for it.

01:37:10.000 Come on, bro.

01:37:10.000 For what?

01:37:11.000 Right.

01:37:12.000 I didn't do anything, but I still get it.

01:37:14.000 And if you can get away with it for a while, you develop habits of not training 100%.

01:37:21.000 Not really putting 100% into it, but still being successful because you're talented.

01:37:25.000 But then you run into someone who's talented and has discipline.

01:37:28.000 And that's when you get fucked up.

01:37:30.000 Okay, and that's the problem.

01:37:32.000 Right.

01:37:32.000 When you get talent and discipline, you get a Michael Jordan.

01:37:35.000 You get Mike Tyson.

01:37:37.000 Talent and discipline, you get Mike Tyson.

01:37:39.000 Yeah.

01:37:40.000 And then you also get some people that are not talented, but they are just the best worker in the room.

01:37:49.000 Mm-hmm.

01:37:51.000 At some point, talent will have a limit.

01:37:55.000 Yes.

01:37:55.000 Yeah, talent has a limit.

01:37:57.000 Especially if someone is willing to really outwork you, really outwork everyone.

01:38:02.000 Yeah, he has to because when you don't have talent, You basically start from nothing.

01:38:08.000 Then you have one, then you have two.

01:38:10.000 Then you know that you have those two because you've been working.

01:38:14.000 So you have to keep working, not only to maintain, to keep the two, but to get the three and the four.

01:38:20.000 And then you get into that process and then you get to work.

01:38:23.000 But when you get talent, you wake up someday, you have five out of ten without working.

01:38:29.000 You don't understand that you need to work to get the six and seven.

01:38:32.000 But the guy that...

01:38:34.000 Ole has the two.

01:38:36.000 He already understood that.

01:38:38.000 He already knew that he needs to work to get those two to get the three.

01:38:43.000 So at some point, he's going to catch you at five.

01:38:46.000 And if you're not improving, he's going to keep going up.

01:38:50.000 He's going to get to six and seven.

01:38:51.000 And you'll be like, this motherfucker was below me.

01:38:54.000 And you're going to stay at five or barely go at six, seven.

01:38:57.000 Yeah.

01:38:57.000 And then there's guys that are really good in the gym.

01:39:02.000 And then when they get to the bright lights, they can't perform.

01:39:06.000 Yeah.

01:39:07.000 Which is the craziest thing.

01:39:08.000 There's these superstars in the gym.

01:39:10.000 And I remember from my kickboxing days, there was guys that were just so good in the gym.

01:39:16.000 And then they would get into that ring and they would just...

01:39:22.000 You could see it.

01:39:23.000 They just diminished.

01:39:24.000 They were 50% of themselves when they competed.

01:39:27.000 Why do you think that?

01:39:28.000 I don't know.

01:39:29.000 Maybe there's something about anxiety, their inability to manage stress.

01:39:36.000 Maybe.

01:39:37.000 I don't know.

01:39:38.000 I mean, I don't know what it is.

01:39:40.000 I always feel like some people can overcome it.

01:39:43.000 And they don't, and some people do.

01:39:45.000 Some people, they start off as great gym guys and then they perform badly, but then eventually they figure it out.

01:39:51.000 They just keep growing and learning.

01:39:54.000 But there are also a lot of people that go to the gym to become a world champion at the gym.

01:40:01.000 You know, I have seen a lot of, there's a lot of people that you get even in the gym, they are coming to try to figure out that guy.

01:40:10.000 He's good, so I might have to check him out.

01:40:14.000 You know, they have that mentality.

01:40:16.000 So in the gym, while you, maybe as a professional fighter, you are there to train, have a good training to learn.

01:40:24.000 Yes.

01:40:25.000 Because you know that you only have one place that you want to show up.

01:40:29.000 In the fight.

01:40:31.000 Right.

01:40:31.000 The two other months, You're in the gym and sometimes if you have somebody in front of you that you feel like he's not catching up with your level, you give him an advantage.

01:40:44.000 I'm like, okay, let me start on the back.

01:40:46.000 Right.

01:40:47.000 Start on this position.

01:40:49.000 Right.

01:40:49.000 You give him an advantage so he can challenge you more.

01:40:52.000 Yes.

01:40:52.000 You know what you're doing.

01:40:54.000 You know why you're doing that.

01:40:55.000 That takes a healthy control of your ego.

01:40:57.000 You see a guy that is a good wrestler or a good jujitsu but has...

01:41:03.000 Very bad striking.

01:41:05.000 You know that you always start on a stand-up.

01:41:10.000 You always start up.

01:41:12.000 And then he might not be able to take you down.

01:41:15.000 I'm like, okay, let's go.

01:41:17.000 Let's start on the ground.

01:41:18.000 Step on me.

01:41:19.000 Half guard.

01:41:20.000 Full guard.

01:41:21.000 Stuff like that.

01:41:22.000 Because you know that you want to work that position.

01:41:25.000 You're taking advantage on him.

01:41:27.000 But some people are there to prove that, oh, I'm something.

01:41:32.000 They're competing instead of training.

01:41:34.000 They're competing.

01:41:35.000 And they don't usually gain more on that.

01:41:39.000 And those people will get in the fight and it's different.

01:41:42.000 Yeah, it's different.

01:41:43.000 That is a very interesting thing, right?

01:41:45.000 It's like some people understand it objectively.

01:41:48.000 Like, I'm here to learn and grow, and I need to work on my weaknesses to make them my strengths.

01:41:53.000 And some people want to avoid their weaknesses, so they only work on their strengths so they look good in the gym.

01:41:58.000 Yeah, because they care about how they look.

01:42:02.000 Yeah, I used to see that a lot with kickboxers that didn't want to do jujitsu because they didn't like to get tapped.

01:42:08.000 Because on the feet, they were a killer.

01:42:10.000 And then they go to the ground, they're like, they're like a beginner.

01:42:14.000 They don't like that.

01:42:14.000 They don't like getting dominated on the ground.

01:42:16.000 So they would just like skip jujitsu classes, skip wrestling training.

01:42:21.000 They didn't want to have anything to do with that.

01:42:23.000 I think it was also about a generation that people around the gym wasn't understanding also.

01:42:34.000 There's a gym, there are people that if you're training with them and something happens and you tap, they'll be like, oh, you're a pussy.

01:42:43.000 Right.

01:42:43.000 You know, and I think those kind of people, they don't help their teammate to improve, you know?

01:42:49.000 No.

01:42:49.000 Instead of like, oh, no, you shouldn't do this, or you should do this instead to avoid that.

01:42:56.000 I'm like, oh, no, bro, you don't tap.

01:42:59.000 Like, yeah, you don't tap, then what?

01:43:01.000 You go to sleep?

01:43:02.000 Or you break your arm.

01:43:03.000 Or you break your arm?

01:43:04.000 Yeah, if you don't tap in the gym, you're a moron.

01:43:07.000 Yeah, it's a stupid thing to not tap in the gym, and I've been stupid before.

01:43:11.000 It's like a thing that people do where they think that they're...

01:43:15.000 Yeah, and all you're doing is getting injured.

01:43:18.000 And if you don't tap to an arm bar, you're going to fuck your elbow up, and then you might not be able to train right for months.

01:43:24.000 Yes.

01:43:25.000 Yeah, you have to.

01:43:26.000 You know, the Gracies have a great perspective on that.

01:43:29.000 They always say, keep it playful.

01:43:30.000 They always say that when you're in the gym, you're just training and learning, and you've got to keep it playful.

01:43:36.000 Marcelo Garcia says that all the time, who's one of the greatest jiu-jitsu guys of all time.

01:43:40.000 He says you have to open up your game in the gym.

01:43:42.000 You can't be closed off and be too defensive.

01:43:44.000 You have to open up your game and learn what happens if you get stuck in bad positions.

01:43:50.000 Yeah, learn when you get caught.

01:43:51.000 If you get caught, you tap.

01:43:53.000 And even if you don't get caught sometimes, get yourself in a position to get caught.

01:44:00.000 Let somebody caught you and try to defend.

01:44:04.000 Understand how to get out of there.

01:44:07.000 That's why they call it practice.

01:44:09.000 Do you think you'll ever compete in jiu-jitsu?

01:44:11.000 You ever think that's something that's interesting to you?

01:44:13.000 Me?

01:44:14.000 Yeah.

01:44:15.000 No.

01:44:16.000 I don't think so.

01:44:17.000 I don't have any knees or ankles to give up.

01:44:25.000 That's a good point.

01:44:26.000 Man, I watched a video this past weekend of a guy getting his leg broken.

01:44:31.000 If I was 25, yes.

01:44:33.000 I'm going to send you this, Jamie, because this is horrific.

01:44:35.000 If I was 25, 20, 25, I would take those chances, do all those stuff, fun.

01:44:43.000 I don't have anything to give up.

01:44:45.000 Yeah, I'm going to show you something, Jamie.

01:44:51.000 This video scared the fucking shit out of me.

01:44:54.000 This video is this guy gets caught in this heel hook.

01:45:00.000 Hold on a second.

01:45:01.000 Where is it?

01:45:03.000 Yeah, I'm gonna send it to you, Jamie.

01:45:08.000 Yeah, I'm sending it to you, Jamie.

01:45:11.000 This shit's horrible.

01:45:13.000 This guy gets caught in an inside heel hook like 10 seconds into the match and he doesn't tap and his leg snaps in half.

01:45:21.000 Yeah.

01:45:22.000 Backstep.

01:45:22.000 Watch this.

01:45:23.000 That's stupid.

01:45:24.000 Check this out.

01:45:25.000 So this guy, they scramble.

01:45:27.000 By Austin.

01:45:28.000 Oh!

01:45:32.000 My goodness.

01:45:34.000 Oh my goodness.

01:45:35.000 That sound.

01:45:36.000 Play that again so I can hear that sound.

01:45:38.000 Austin holding out a very long time.

01:45:40.000 That's in South Africa.

01:45:41.000 Backstep by Austin.

01:45:42.000 That's South Africa.

01:45:43.000 Oh!

01:45:45.000 Oh!

01:45:47.000 Punch me in the face, bro.

01:45:50.000 Yeah, that leg might not ever be the same again.

01:45:53.000 No, punch me in the face.

01:45:54.000 No, not the leg.

01:45:56.000 Yourself.

01:45:57.000 Like, do you imagine, like, just thinking of the day that your leg make this sound?

01:46:02.000 Oh, god damn.

01:46:04.000 It snapped right here, right?

01:46:06.000 Like right there?

01:46:07.000 Yes.

01:46:07.000 Like the spiral?

01:46:08.000 Yeah, spiral fracture of his shin.

01:46:10.000 Horrible.

01:46:11.000 And the sound was like a baseball bat breaking.

01:46:15.000 I'll never forget the sound when Chris Weidman kicked Uriah Hall and snapped his shin in half.

01:46:21.000 The sound was so horrible.

01:46:24.000 And he's never been the same again.

01:46:28.000 Those breaks, especially the shin break, I wonder if Conor McGregor is ever going to come back again.

01:46:38.000 It's very difficult to come back from that break.

01:46:41.000 That's one of the worst injuries.

01:46:43.000 I think for that kind of injury, the most difficult part is the mental part.

01:46:50.000 You don't know if he's going to be there again.

01:46:53.000 To try to get to Obviously, you have a rehab, right?

01:47:00.000 But you rehab the part that is injured.

01:47:03.000 But the rehab of your mind to be able to trust that again, that is a problem.

01:47:11.000 I'm like, I don't know about that.

01:47:14.000 Maybe we just skip this part.

01:47:16.000 Well, even when you're not injured, like your fight with Stipe and then you fight Derrick Lewis, in the back of your mind, you're still thinking about the Stipe fight, right?

01:47:26.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:47:26.000 I'm still fighting Stipe.

01:47:27.000 I'm still like, what?

01:47:28.000 Damn, why did I do this?

01:47:30.000 No, I should be patient.

01:47:32.000 I should do this.

01:47:33.000 You know, I'm there fighting Stipe.

01:47:36.000 And then I get surprised when the fight was over.

01:47:40.000 And I'm like, okay, this is it.

01:47:43.000 We still have one more round, right?

01:47:45.000 No, it's over.

01:47:46.000 It's been three rounds.

01:47:49.000 Because I was just being patient.

01:47:51.000 Well, you came back from that, though.

01:47:53.000 How did you come back from that?

01:47:54.000 How did you get your mind straight?

01:47:57.000 I mean, I think I get to the point that I just...

01:48:04.000 Let it go, and I'm like, okay.

01:48:08.000 Because I'm like, if this is the end, at least let's finish how we started.

01:48:14.000 At the beginning, it was all fun.

01:48:16.000 Right, right, right.

01:48:17.000 Like having fun.

01:48:19.000 I feel like at some point along the way, I lost that fun.

01:48:22.000 I don't know when, but I lost that fun.

01:48:24.000 And it's about like, oh, winning, you have to win, you shouldn't lose, this, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:48:29.000 So did you make a decision in your mind to go back to having fun again?

01:48:33.000 Yeah.

01:48:34.000 He was just like, have fun, and then whatever happens, happens.

01:48:39.000 Don't care.

01:48:40.000 And if this is it, if you lose again, and then maybe have to get caught or whatever, at least enjoy it.

01:48:50.000 And then I get in China, have to fight Curtis Blade.

01:48:53.000 45 seconds, it was over.

01:48:55.000 I'm like, not bad, having fun.

01:48:59.000 Fun for you.

01:49:00.000 Yes.

01:49:01.000 The performance of the night, then keep going.

01:49:04.000 So, did you ever work with a psychologist or a performance coach, or did you figure it out yourself?

01:49:12.000 I tried, but I think I have a personal blockage.

01:49:17.000 I don't believe in that.

01:49:19.000 Really?

01:49:19.000 Yeah.

01:49:22.000 I don't know.

01:49:23.000 I talk to myself a lot.

01:49:25.000 I spend time with me, with myself.

01:49:28.000 I mean, most of the time I'm by myself.

01:49:31.000 I'm a lonely person.

01:49:33.000 So I spend time with myself and I talk to myself a lot.

01:49:37.000 I figure out, I analyze.

01:49:39.000 And this was just me growing up.

01:49:42.000 Didn't have friends, didn't have people to hang out with.

01:49:49.000 I wasn't welcome among kids.

01:49:52.000 So I created my own world in my mind, my own friends and everything in my mind.

01:50:00.000 So I just used to hang out with myself.

01:50:02.000 So I get used to Just like that.

01:50:06.000 Well, that's so much better for a person in your position in life than to have an entourage.

01:50:11.000 So I know a lot of guys, when they get very successful, they have an entourage.

01:50:16.000 So they're surrounded by yes men all the time.

01:50:19.000 And that is one of the worst things that happens to a successful person.

01:50:24.000 But for them, for some people, it's cool.

01:50:27.000 You know, like even now, I think no later than last week, I was in the restaurant and I walked there by myself, take a table, sit down.

01:50:39.000 Do people look over there like, is that fucking Francis Ngannou?

01:50:42.000 Yeah, order my food and eat.

01:50:43.000 Do people freak out?

01:50:45.000 Like, is that Francis Ngannou sitting by himself?

01:50:47.000 Yeah, some people recognize you.

01:50:48.000 I'm like, yeah, are you expecting somebody?

01:50:50.000 And most of the time, the answer is yes.

01:50:53.000 Basically, like, leave me alone.

01:50:54.000 Right.

01:50:56.000 So you generally like being by yourself?

01:50:59.000 Yeah, I like to.

01:51:00.000 I do that a lot.

01:51:02.000 And people are like, are you leaving here by yourself?

01:51:05.000 Are you by yourself?

01:51:06.000 I'm like, what's the problem by being by yourself?

01:51:10.000 It's being independent.

01:51:13.000 I'm free.

01:51:14.000 I don't need anybody to decide on my happiness or me having fun or whatever.

01:51:22.000 Sometimes I will spend two days in my house without going out.

01:51:26.000 And I'm good with it.

01:51:27.000 And I can go out.

01:51:29.000 I can do whatever I want, but I just want to be there.

01:51:32.000 I did that recently.

01:51:33.000 You know, my family was out of town, and I was home by myself for three days.

01:51:37.000 It was glorious.

01:51:38.000 I loved it.

01:51:40.000 It gives you time to think about things.

01:51:42.000 I do that a lot.

01:51:44.000 But recently, I've been changing a little bit, because staying home a lot will make me think and will make me sad.

01:51:54.000 Since I lost my kid, my boy, then he will make me think and make me sad.

01:51:59.000 And if I stay there, I will keep having those thoughts, those sadness around.

01:52:05.000 It's like the energy around me is just sad.

01:52:08.000 I understand.

01:52:10.000 So then what I do is when I start to feel something like that, I just have to force myself to get out, grab the car key, get the hell out of here.

01:52:19.000 I'm running away from something.

01:52:21.000 Then by the time you even find the car key, you find your shoes, you do this, your mind is already thinking of something.

01:52:30.000 Instead of sorrow, just sorrow.

01:52:32.000 Yeah, if you just sit in your couch, then it keeps going, keeps going, then it's sad, then you're pissed, then you're like, hate life, everything.

01:52:43.000 Your son was 15 months old?

01:52:45.000 15 months old.

01:52:46.000 What happened?

01:52:47.000 Bro.

01:52:49.000 I think he has some malformation on his brain, which is something that we didn't know.

01:53:01.000 He fainted.

01:53:02.000 He passed out twice.

01:53:04.000 The first time was in Khmerun.

01:53:06.000 We took him to the hospital.

01:53:07.000 They didn't find anything.

01:53:09.000 The second time was in Saudi.

01:53:12.000 We took him to the hospital.

01:53:13.000 They ran a lot of exams.

01:53:15.000 They didn't do anything.

01:53:19.000 They did the EEG. They didn't do the scan or the MRI because I think according to them, their conclusion was that he has a swollen lung,

01:53:37.000 you know, and that was what was pressing his chest and stopping him from breathing and create that So, after all those exams, they give him some medicine that is going to be okay.

01:53:54.000 Nothing to worry about.

01:53:56.000 Because at first, they even thought about asthma.

01:53:59.000 They give like a ventilator.

01:54:02.000 And then afterwards, after some result, they took him out.

01:54:08.000 And then, you know, it put me in confidence.

01:54:13.000 Even though like...

01:54:15.000 I don't know.

01:54:16.000 Sometime, I think...

01:54:22.000 Somewhere in my mind, I have to think that, yes, but he didn't show any stress respiratory if he was something from his lung.

01:54:32.000 But I'm like, bro, those were professional doctors and this, and then I trust that.

01:54:41.000 So I basically put my gut down.

01:54:46.000 And I remember just getting in Dubai, and that day I was thinking, like, oh, life is...

01:54:54.000 Meanwhile, I'm not doing bad.

01:54:56.000 Life is good.

01:54:58.000 You know, I went to the gym.

01:54:59.000 I'm like, maybe I should go to club tonight.

01:55:02.000 I don't go to club.

01:55:03.000 I don't go out.

01:55:05.000 Like, man, come on.

01:55:06.000 Which kind of guy are you?

01:55:09.000 I went to the gym to work out.

01:55:13.000 I'm in the bike cycling.

01:55:14.000 Then I tried to call.

01:55:15.000 I wanted to talk to him when I was on the phone, on the bike.

01:55:21.000 Then I called his mom.

01:55:22.000 His mom didn't pick up the phone.

01:55:24.000 And I'm like, after I'm done, I'm going to go take my shower, lay in the bed and call him.

01:55:33.000 And 30 minutes after I was on the leg machine, my phone rang.

01:55:37.000 It was my little brother.

01:55:39.000 He said, bro, things are not going well here.

01:55:43.000 I'm like, what?

01:55:44.000 He said, Kobe passed out.

01:55:46.000 He's not breathing.

01:55:47.000 We are at the hospital.

01:55:48.000 They kicked me out from the room.

01:55:51.000 And I'm like, what happened?

01:55:53.000 And then as we are talking, he's also trying to get information.

01:55:57.000 So I lost him for like three, four minutes.

01:56:02.000 I called again, and then I'm talking to him while he's talking to the nurse.

01:56:09.000 And the nurse was like, who are you?

01:56:12.000 Are you his dad?

01:56:14.000 He said, no.

01:56:15.000 Then who are you?

01:56:16.000 I'm his uncle.

01:56:17.000 Where is his dad?

01:56:18.000 His dad is not here.

01:56:20.000 Where?

01:56:21.000 He's gone.

01:56:23.000 Just like that.

01:56:26.000 He's gone.

01:56:27.000 What do you mean?

01:56:28.000 He's gone.

01:56:31.000 How come he's gone?

01:56:33.000 This kid was 15 months.

01:56:34.000 He was bigger than 15 months.

01:56:36.000 He was growing.

01:56:37.000 He was the most joyful, happy kid around.

01:56:44.000 Hey!

01:56:45.000 What do you mean he's gone?

01:56:47.000 Gone where?

01:56:48.000 Bro, that was it.

01:56:51.000 I thought I was dreaming.

01:56:53.000 I thought they're going to say something.

01:56:54.000 No, that's not true.

01:56:56.000 Then I keep calling again.

01:57:00.000 And everybody is confirmed.

01:57:02.000 I call my mom.

01:57:03.000 My mom is just on tear.

01:57:06.000 Like, bro, what the fuck is this?

01:57:12.000 And that was it.

01:57:15.000 And I never realized, I have been in the situation that I have seen people losing their kids, mourning maybe, definitely older kids, but I'm like, man, this must be hard, even though I can't feel it.

01:57:35.000 At that moment, I mean, you don't know what could be your reaction.

01:57:42.000 You don't know.

01:57:44.000 I've been in this situation where I'm like, Bro, I don't cry.

01:57:48.000 I never cry.

01:57:50.000 I mean, not like I never cry, but it doesn't just happen.

01:57:55.000 I don't know why.

01:57:57.000 No.

01:57:58.000 Maybe because you don't have a reason.

01:58:00.000 When you feel like something really hurts inside you, like you can't breathe.

01:58:07.000 It's hurting.

01:58:08.000 That was it.

01:58:10.000 And when did this happen?

01:58:14.000 April 27th.

01:58:16.000 So this was before the Joshua fight?

01:58:18.000 No, after.

01:58:19.000 After the Joshua fight?

01:58:20.000 Yeah.

01:58:20.000 April 27th.

01:58:23.000 Almost two months after.

01:58:27.000 That was it.

01:58:29.000 And then all of the sudden you realise how a kid that wasn't there two years ago has become a If it's a major part of your life, or if it's not your life, then you realise that all the things that you were worrying about didn't mean shit at all.

01:58:54.000 Nothing means nothing.

01:58:58.000 It was the only thing at the time that really mattered.

01:59:03.000 But it's not there anymore.

01:59:07.000 but you know one thing is that you know my dad passed away uh i was 15 and he got sick just stay at home for like months and couldn't even go to the hospital and get to the point that he couldn't even go to the bathroom on his own nothing but i was 15 i was still at school You know, I always tell myself, like, I was a kid, what could I have done?

01:59:38.000 And then, after a couple of years, I left school, and then I started to think, I'm like, okay.

01:59:47.000 I had an excuse when my dad passed away.

01:59:51.000 I think I'm becoming an adult, and I said, Powerless.

01:59:57.000 I still can do anything if something like that happens.

02:00:00.000 What happens if my mom gets sick?

02:00:03.000 What happens if I have my own kids?

02:00:07.000 Some days, and they need me, or I will provide for them, or protect them?

02:00:15.000 And that was one of the thoughts that I always have, pushing me to leave.

02:00:21.000 Like, no, I need to do something.

02:00:23.000 I need to take action.

02:00:26.000 Then, after years, you get to the point that you feel like you have it figured out.

02:00:33.000 Like, okay, I can afford a healthcare for my family.

02:00:38.000 I can take care if somebody needs to go to the hospital or whatever it is.

02:00:43.000 I'm going to make it.

02:00:44.000 I'm going to do it.

02:00:47.000 Then, all of a sudden, your own kids, which is the one that rely on you, only you, You couldn't even do anything for him.

02:01:01.000 By the time he got to the hospital, he was gone.

02:01:04.000 You couldn't fight for him.

02:01:06.000 I'm like, bro, let me fight.

02:01:08.000 Let me say I have tried.

02:01:10.000 Let me say I did something.

02:01:12.000 Let's make all this work.

02:01:14.000 What's the point if after all this, I get to the point that I'm still this powerless in front of a real situation?

02:01:25.000 And that...

02:01:30.000 That's hurt.

02:01:31.000 That's hurt a lot.

02:01:33.000 I'm sorry to hear that, man.

02:01:35.000 I can't imagine.

02:01:39.000 It's also the pain of knowing there's nothing he could have done.

02:01:43.000 It's just a medical thing that he was born with.

02:01:47.000 Yeah, he was born with it.

02:01:49.000 Because when it happens, everybody was confused.

02:01:52.000 Nobody knows.

02:01:54.000 So, get home, then what should we do?

02:02:00.000 That's the way of autopsy.

02:02:03.000 That one was tough because you think that they're going to tear him, cut him, cut his head.

02:02:14.000 I mean, a kid that yesterday you were excited to talk to him, now they're talking about like, cut him this way, this way.

02:02:26.000 How come that is like?

02:02:31.000 But, you know, it's at least good to know what happened.

02:02:36.000 Maybe that might save somebody in the future, because there's still a mystery there.

02:02:45.000 So, say, let's do the autopsy.

02:02:47.000 That's why they find all this out.

02:02:55.000 The last time I saw him was me leaving Cameroon, going to the elevator.

02:03:03.000 And he was with my little brother.

02:03:08.000 He didn't want me to go because he became My body so much that when I'm around, he don't want me to leave him alone.

02:03:21.000 I can take him wherever I go.

02:03:25.000 He might not eat.

02:03:28.000 He doesn't care as long as he's with me.

02:03:30.000 That was it.

02:03:31.000 He was my mate, like 15 months.

02:03:34.000 He's barely working, but you know, When I walked in, you know that I walked in.

02:03:43.000 They don't have to ask, like, who walked in?

02:03:46.000 They know that it's his dad, you know, his reaction.

02:03:51.000 Then you start to think about all those little things, all those little things that you guys have, just you and him.

02:04:01.000 Then it's over.

02:04:03.000 Then it's over.

02:04:07.000 When it was the day that I was leaving, he was crying, like he wanted me to go with him.

02:04:15.000 But I kept going.

02:04:17.000 I knew that I was going to be back.

02:04:20.000 I had no clue that that was it.

02:04:23.000 Wow.

02:04:24.000 I always said, I should have gone back one more time, spent one more day, you know, talking one more time.

02:04:33.000 Man!

02:04:36.000 That was it.

02:04:42.000 And then he get back in the apartment and see all his toys, the stuff that he was playing, the things that you take from him the other day and put here, it's right there.

02:04:56.000 But he's not there anymore.

02:04:58.000 And will never be there anymore.

02:05:02.000 Yeah.

02:05:03.000 Kobe.

02:05:09.000 Kobe.

02:05:10.000 Kobe was his name.

02:05:12.000 I named him after Kobe Bryant because I had a great memory of Kobe Bryant.

02:05:21.000 The day that the UFC was announcing the partnership with Buddy Amon was in New York.

02:05:29.000 I just arrived in the US at a time.

02:05:32.000 My English was so bad.

02:05:34.000 I'm in New York.

02:05:35.000 We have to meet in this room, this event, to make the announcement.

02:05:41.000 And I'm there a little early.

02:05:44.000 Then Kobe came a little early too.

02:05:48.000 Meet me in the waiting room.

02:05:50.000 Just go be a night there for like 30 minutes.

02:05:55.000 My English is very bad.

02:05:57.000 I'm embarrassed.

02:05:58.000 I don't want to speak.

02:06:00.000 And then I keep talking, asking questions, talk about my story.

02:06:04.000 Ask me where I came from and how do I get.

02:06:07.000 And I'm like, wow, this is impressive.

02:06:09.000 I'm like, this is Kobe, right?

02:06:11.000 I don't want to bother him, but he's questioning me.

02:06:16.000 Really excited about it.

02:06:18.000 Get me to talk.

02:06:19.000 Then I feel bad.

02:06:20.000 I'm like, oh no, your English is really good.

02:06:22.000 I understand what you're saying.

02:06:24.000 And then how about this, that?

02:06:26.000 Like for 30 minutes.

02:06:28.000 Until then Dana White was the next guy that walked in the room.

02:06:31.000 And he said, wow, do you know this guy's story?

02:06:34.000 Do you know his story?

02:06:35.000 He did this, he did that.

02:06:36.000 And I said, yes, I know.

02:06:37.000 Like, wow, this is crazy.

02:06:40.000 Wow.

02:06:41.000 It's crazy how we in America, we don't know what's going on around the world.

02:06:45.000 And Kobe was there talking like that.

02:06:48.000 I'm like, This is Kobe Bryant!

02:06:50.000 So that was my moment with Kobe.

02:06:53.000 So when he passed out, when he died, You know, I was in LA when I heard about the news and it hit me really bad.

02:07:07.000 And I decided, I'm going to make Kobe.

02:07:11.000 I'm going to have a Kobe.

02:07:15.000 So that's it.

02:07:17.000 The day that he passed away, just the day before, they were just making a little basketball court that I have for him, a playground for him.

02:07:34.000 Because I was so awake for him to start to be strong on his feet so we can go work, we can do this, we can play soccer.

02:07:43.000 I've been looking for soccer clit for him.

02:07:48.000 This, that, you know, you have all the projects.

02:07:51.000 I have thought of like, which school should he go?

02:07:54.000 Like, think, oh, what should I do?

02:07:58.000 You know, you never know.

02:08:00.000 Maybe something happened to me.

02:08:02.000 I should set up something to keep him safe.

02:08:06.000 You think like that, but it never crossed your mind that he would be the one living first.

02:08:14.000 From the moment that he was born, when he was born, when he started to react and you really see a living person, you really started to plan out how to Protect him, how to build a security around him.

02:08:36.000 You know, he wasn't just a kid.

02:08:41.000 He was a project.

02:08:42.000 He became a huge project.

02:08:44.000 Everything that you think of that's good, that you want, oh, it's for Kobe.

02:08:50.000 It's for him.

02:08:51.000 All of this sudden, then he's gone.

02:08:56.000 Wow.

02:08:57.000 Yeah.

02:08:58.000 You've been through a lot in your life, Francis.

02:09:04.000 Yeah.

02:09:05.000 You've been through it a lot.

02:09:07.000 A lot of people have been through it.

02:09:10.000 You didn't just know.

02:09:12.000 Then after that, you look at people that have been through, that lost a kid.

02:09:17.000 You respect them more.

02:09:19.000 You give them some more respect.

02:09:21.000 Like my older brother lost two kids.

02:09:24.000 And I feel so bad not really being there for him, because I didn't understand.

02:09:31.000 I know that he lost kids, but I didn't know what exactly that means.

02:09:36.000 Now that I understand, I'm like, I should have been there more.

02:09:41.000 I feel bad that I didn't connect to his suffering, to his pain.

02:09:49.000 And you respect him more for being through that, to overcome that twice.

02:09:56.000 Then you start to think like, no.

02:10:01.000 In fact, I think I'm not the toughest one, though.

02:10:06.000 I've been put in tests and realised that I'm not as tough as I think.

02:10:13.000 Hmm.

02:10:15.000 Yeah.

02:10:17.000 Whew!

02:10:21.000 There's nothing anybody can say.

02:10:24.000 That's the craziest thing.

02:10:25.000 There's no comfort that anybody can give you.

02:10:30.000 If they ask you, What do you want?

02:10:35.000 What can comfort you, you don't know.

02:10:38.000 It's nothing.

02:10:40.000 Nothing can happen.

02:10:41.000 It's really about facing it daily.

02:10:46.000 Take it one at a time.

02:10:47.000 Do you have other children?

02:10:49.000 Yeah, I have another girl.

02:10:52.000 I have another girl.

02:10:55.000 But when it happens like that, you feel like I don't know.

02:11:02.000 Even though in your mind you think like you still have a lot going on, a lot of things to be grateful about, but in your heart you feel like you're broke.

02:11:14.000 You have nothing.

02:11:15.000 Nothing is worth it.

02:11:20.000 I mean, I always love life and know that I have everything of suicide, but at least for once, I'm like, at least whenever I die, I'm going to go see my kid.

02:11:36.000 I'm going to see him.

02:11:37.000 I'm not afraid of it.

02:11:40.000 I still want to live, but at least whenever you get to that point, to think like that.

02:11:50.000 So, some way you're looking forward for whenever that happens.

02:11:57.000 Wow.

02:12:00.000 Yeah.

02:12:03.000 I'm very sorry for your loss, man.

02:12:05.000 I really am.

02:12:06.000 I wish I could say something, but there's nothing to say.

02:12:09.000 There's nothing to say to you.

02:12:10.000 Thank you.

02:12:11.000 Thank you.

02:12:13.000 Thank you for being here, man.

02:12:15.000 Thank you for everything.

02:12:16.000 You're an inspirational man.

02:12:18.000 You really are.

02:12:19.000 Thank you.

02:12:19.000 I appreciate it.

02:12:20.000 I appreciate you being here, and best of luck to you in everything in life.

02:12:25.000 We'll see.

02:12:27.000 That's why, like, I really want to come back and do something, you know, like, because I really think, like, maybe I should...

02:12:40.000 I get to the point that I'm like, why do I fight for?

02:12:45.000 You know, I don't...

02:12:48.000 Even have to, I don't want.

02:12:52.000 But bro, that boy for only 15 months, I think he He taught me something.

02:13:03.000 He was active, full of life, and I think if there's one thing that he would have been doing, he would have been doing something, not staying there, not being a reason of giving up or whatever.

02:13:22.000 And I think that's the only way to honour him, his memory, keep him alive.

02:13:32.000 Get a purpose.

02:13:37.000 Make him a motivation.

02:13:42.000 Yeah.

02:13:45.000 I think so.

02:13:46.000 We will see.

02:13:47.000 We will see how it plays out.

02:13:49.000 Yeah.

02:13:51.000 Again, thank you, Francis.

02:13:53.000 Thank you for being here, man.

02:13:54.000 I really appreciate you.

02:13:56.000 Thank you, Joe.

02:13:57.000 Alright.

The Joe Rogan Experience - November 24, 2011

JRE MMA Show #160 with Francis Ngannou

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