The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #166 with Ilia Topuria

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan Podcast.

00:00:03.000 Check it out.

00:00:03.000 The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day.

00:00:07.000 Joe Rogan Podcast by night.

00:00:08.000 All day.

00:00:13.000 What's happening?

00:00:14.000 Pleasure. No, please.

00:00:16.000 My pleasure.

00:00:16.000 Thank you very much for having me here.

00:00:18.000 My honor.

00:00:18.000 I'm very excited about this new thing you're doing.

00:00:21.000 I'm very excited about your journey into the lightweight division.

00:00:25.000 Something that I felt very excited also about that.

00:00:28.000 What are you walking around at?

00:00:30.000 Like, what do you walk around at when you were fighting at 45?

00:00:33.000 I'm going to tell you in kilos.

00:00:35.000 Okay. I walk around 80, 82. What is that, Jamie?

00:00:39.000 Like 160, 170?

00:00:41.000 175. 175?

00:00:43.000 180. 180.

00:00:44.000 Okay, so you were losing quite a bit of weight.

00:00:46.000 35 pounds?

00:00:47.000 25-30 pounds.

00:00:49.000 That was the hardest part of the fight game for me.

00:00:55.000 I wasn't enjoying all the last couple of fights that I had.

00:01:01.000 I had to become more professional in the weight cut than in a fight game.

00:01:05.000 It was taking a lot of time and energy for me.

00:01:09.000 My dream is to become a world champion.

00:01:11.000 I want to end up this chapter that I have, that I started in 145, and now it's time to really enjoy it, and I'm very excited about that.

00:01:20.000 I already have one fight in 155.

00:01:24.000 Jai Herbert.

00:01:25.000 Jai Herbert.

00:01:26.000 I really wish the UFC would eliminate weight cutting.

00:01:29.000 I really wish there was a way.

00:01:30.000 Why did I allow to do that?

00:01:32.000 I don't.

00:01:33.000 It's sanctioned cheating that everybody has to do.

00:01:36.000 It's like, you know, I mean, if you're saying you're 180 pounds, you're not really 145, right?

00:01:41.000 So it's crazy that you're the 145-pound champion, but you're a 180-pound man.

00:01:45.000 It's kind of nuts.

00:01:46.000 Yeah, but at the same time, if you go to the next weight class, you are playing with a disadvantage because...

00:01:53.000 The guy in the next division is cutting a lot of weight.

00:01:56.000 So if you don't do that, at the end of the day, you walk inside the octagon and you are the smaller guy.

00:02:01.000 Yeah, like Islam.

00:02:02.000 Islam Akachev is huge.

00:02:04.000 I mean, that guy, how he makes 155 is...

00:02:07.000 I don't understand it.

00:02:08.000 Every time I stand next to him, I'm like, how are you 155?

00:02:11.000 How much do you think he walks around?

00:02:13.000 He's got to be 190-ish in the 190 range.

00:02:16.000 He's got to be.

00:02:17.000 That's what he looks like to me.

00:02:18.000 I never saw him in a person.

00:02:19.000 Yeah, he's thick.

00:02:20.000 He's thick and big.

00:02:22.000 I mean, he's not a small—he's not a 155-pound man.

00:02:26.000 It's just so silly.

00:02:27.000 The whole thing is just—it's an old thing that we kept for no reason.

00:02:34.000 And I feel like they should blow all the weight classes.

00:02:37.000 I've talked to Dana about this.

00:02:38.000 I actually talked to Ari Emanuel about this when they first bought the UFC.

00:02:41.000 I said, the first thing you should do is get rid of this.

00:02:44.000 Get rid of the weight cutting and just add a bunch of weight classes.

00:02:47.000 You know, because some of the weight class gaps, like the gap between 70 and 85 and then 85 and 205, they're too big.

00:02:55.000 The gaps are too big.

00:02:56.000 20 pounds is nuts.

00:02:57.000 I would do something with the drug test.

00:02:59.000 Like, if I go to your home to make the drug test, I put you in the...

00:03:03.000 If you walk around like 8% or 10% over your weight, I would obligate you to go in the next weight class.

00:03:12.000 Just to give you an example, for example, if you're fighting 100 kilograms, I'm going to say 10 kilograms, and I go to your house, I do the drug test, I put you in the scale, and your weight is 110 kilograms, I will force you to go to the next weight class.

00:03:29.000 I think that's realistic.

00:03:30.000 That makes sense.

00:03:31.000 And I think that they should have more weight classes because the weight class gaps are just too large.

00:03:36.000 Or maybe that's an option also.

00:03:37.000 Yeah. I mean, at the lower weight classes, it's 10 pounds, which seems reasonable.

00:03:42.000 But really, at the lower weight classes, like 125 and 135, it could easily be 5 pounds.

00:03:49.000 5 pounds is reasonable.

00:03:51.000 But Dana doesn't want like 12 weight classes or 15, 20 weight classes like boxing has.

00:03:57.000 He wants it to be like the UFC has now.

00:04:00.000 But it's not enough.

00:04:01.000 I don't really know the real reason behind that.

00:04:04.000 But I would love to talk to Dana and ask him these questions also.

00:04:08.000 Because it's kind of dangerous also for the guys.

00:04:11.000 And many times you put on a show for the people and you don't really know if they're going to make the weight.

00:04:18.000 Right. Exactly.

00:04:19.000 And they're going to be compromised.

00:04:21.000 I mean, there's a lot of guys who fight just deeply dehydrated from the day before.

00:04:25.000 And even though they've rehydrated themselves, their brain's not rehydrated yet.

00:04:29.000 Exactly. It's not smart.

00:04:31.000 And it's also not necessary.

00:04:34.000 It would make for better fights.

00:04:36.000 Why would you want someone to be physically compromised 24 hours before they're fighting?

00:04:41.000 It doesn't make any sense at all.

00:04:42.000 But at the same time, the weight cut takes something out from you.

00:04:47.000 That's crazy.

00:04:48.000 It's like putting a dog inside the room for 20 days without any food and you open the door and you put him in a different room full of food.

00:04:58.000 It's like the same thing, you know?

00:05:00.000 When I'm cutting the weight, I'm a different person.

00:05:02.000 I feel that I'm like...

00:05:05.000 My mind...

00:05:06.000 It goes different.

00:05:07.000 My thought process is different.

00:05:08.000 Everything is so different at that moment.

00:05:11.000 I'm not so kind when I'm cutting weight.

00:05:14.000 Yeah, more focused, dialed in.

00:05:17.000 Exactly. Dominic Cruz says it's a good thing.

00:05:19.000 He says he likes weight cutting because it gets you dialed in.

00:05:23.000 He says it gets you completely dialed in for a fight.

00:05:25.000 How much he cuts.

00:05:26.000 I don't think he cuts that much.

00:05:28.000 That's why.

00:05:29.000 For 35. That's why he likes it.

00:05:32.000 Ask Alex Pereira if he likes it.

00:05:34.000 Because when he was fighting at 85, he was weighing in at 85 and then fighting in the cage at 225, 226, which is crazy.

00:05:43.000 I don't know how that guy was making 185.

00:05:47.000 I don't know.

00:05:47.000 That's crazy because he's huge and he's so tall.

00:05:50.000 Well, how about Drekas Duplicy?

00:05:51.000 How the fuck is he 185?

00:05:53.000 That guy's huge.

00:05:54.000 He's a tank.

00:05:55.000 Yeah, that guy's huge also.

00:05:56.000 There's a lot of these guys, like, but it's very deceptive because the general public thinks that's a 185-pound man, but he's not.

00:06:05.000 Tricus is probably, when he gets into the cage, he's well into the 220s.

00:06:09.000 He's a big guy.

00:06:10.000 I don't know in what weight he walks around, but he's a huge guy also.

00:06:15.000 When he was fighting in 170, he was big also.

00:06:19.000 He was almost killing himself.

00:06:22.000 The craziest one was Anthony Rumble Johnson.

00:06:25.000 Do you remember Anthony?

00:06:26.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:06:26.000 Anthony, I ran into him once in between fights, and I said, how much do you weigh?

00:06:31.000 He said 230.

00:06:33.000 Wow. He was fighting 170.

00:06:35.000 He switched how many weight classes?

00:06:38.000 He started from 170, he went to...

00:06:40.000 Light heavyweight and then he ended up fighting in the heavyweight division.

00:06:44.000 He went to middleweight and didn't make weight.

00:06:46.000 He missed weight and lost that fight.

00:06:49.000 And then he fought heavyweight outside the UFC and then came back and fought light heavyweight in the UFC.

00:06:55.000 You know, something similar happened to me also.

00:06:57.000 I started fighting in the bantamweight division.

00:07:00.000 Really? Yeah.

00:07:01.000 Before the UFC, like in Cage Warriors, when I was fighting in the Cage Warriors, I actually missed the weight also when I was fighting for the belt.

00:07:10.000 I was fighting at that time in the bantamweight division.

00:07:13.000 Then I kept fighting in the featherweight, and now I'm in the lightweight.

00:07:18.000 I hope I don't end up fighting in the welterweight.

00:07:22.000 How old were you when you first started fighting?

00:07:25.000 In MMA, you asking?

00:07:28.000 When did you first start martial arts?

00:07:31.000 With four years old, my dad put me with my brother in judo.

00:07:37.000 Then we went to Georgia.

00:07:39.000 We kept practicing with the Greco-Roman wrestling.

00:07:44.000 And then we moved to Spain when I was 15 years old.

00:07:47.000 And completely by chance, we find the gym and we started training.

00:07:53.000 The MMA, the Mixed Martial Arts.

00:07:54.000 Totally by chance?

00:07:55.000 Totally by chance.

00:07:57.000 Wow. So were you a Mixed Martial Arts fan at all?

00:08:00.000 I didn't know anything about the Mixed Martial Arts.

00:08:03.000 I didn't know anything about the BJJ, the ground game, any fucking thing.

00:08:07.000 Wow. So we went to Spain, and we wanted to keep with the same discipline as we were doing in Georgia with the Greco-Roman Wrestling, but they don't have the culture of that sport.

00:08:19.000 We were a little bit sad, you know, because we wanted that sport.

00:08:24.000 My brother was really, really good on that.

00:08:27.000 So my mom was working and he saw a man with the cauliflower ears.

00:08:34.000 She went to him and she asked him, like, what are you doing?

00:08:39.000 Because my kids want to do wrestling.

00:08:42.000 Do you train in some gym or something?

00:08:45.000 And he said, no, I'm doing the BJJ.

00:08:48.000 Bring your kids and I'm going to show you the gym.

00:08:51.000 She came to home and my dad and my mom, they started to convince us.

00:08:56.000 Like, there's a gym, they are practicing like Jiu-Jitsu, MMA, all the sports.

00:09:02.000 And I was like, but what the fuck is this?

00:09:05.000 I don't know what's this.

00:09:06.000 And my dad started to show me the videos of the Grazies.

00:09:11.000 He told me, like, this is one of the best sports in the world right now.

00:09:15.000 You are going to, guys, love it, this and that.

00:09:18.000 And at that day, we went to the gym, and I fell in love since the first second.

00:09:22.000 Well, it's actually a great base to start out from, starting with judo and then greco-roaming wrestling, and then going into jiu-jitsu.

00:09:28.000 It's really great because you already have an established grappling base.

00:09:33.000 It's great, of course.

00:09:34.000 My recommendation for everyone is...

00:09:37.000 If you want to have a career in MMA, you should start with wrestling.

00:09:41.000 Because for me personally, because this is my personal experience, that it's much easier to learn in the future the boxing than start with boxing and learn the wrestling.

00:09:54.000 Really? For me, yes.

00:09:55.000 I think so.

00:09:56.000 And I saw that in many people.

00:09:58.000 But how old were you when you first started boxing?

00:10:02.000 17 years old.

00:10:04.000 That's fairly old, like when you think about how high level you're striking is.

00:10:08.000 Of course it is.

00:10:09.000 Yeah. But when I started, I was like, okay, I'm very good with the wrestling.

00:10:15.000 I can take people down.

00:10:16.000 I can control them.

00:10:18.000 I have a great ground game.

00:10:20.000 But what if I go to the highest competition and I find some adversities?

00:10:26.000 I have to be able to fight in the striking also.

00:10:29.000 So I have to develop my game in the striking.

00:10:32.000 And I start from that.

00:10:34.000 And I start with my brother.

00:10:35.000 We were like the first people to go inside the gym and the last ones to leave it.

00:10:40.000 So we were starting every day, all day, like so obsessed.

00:10:44.000 We were watching like all the videos of Julio Cesar Chavez, of Canelo, all that.

00:10:48.000 Practicing all the techniques and then putting in interaction, the sparrings and all that.

00:10:55.000 And I was like finding my style that I really like to do.

00:11:00.000 Well, it's interesting because Spain doesn't have a long history of mixed martial arts.

00:11:06.000 So you are the first champion from Spain in the UFC.

00:11:11.000 So it's very interesting that you got in there as a young man and there wasn't really like a big established community yet.

00:11:20.000 So I was the first guy to get into the top 15, the top 10, the top 5, and then the world champion.

00:11:27.000 We had a guy in Spain who fought in the UFC.

00:11:33.000 I don't know if you remember him.

00:11:34.000 Enrique Wasabi.

00:11:35.000 Okay. He did the ultimate fighter.

00:11:38.000 Then we have another guy also Joel Alvarez.

00:11:41.000 He's doing a great job also.

00:11:42.000 But before that we didn't have anyone in the UFC.

00:11:46.000 So when you first started training, were there amateur competitions in Spain?

00:11:50.000 Yeah. There was amateur MMA?

00:11:52.000 I made three fights in amateur.

00:11:55.000 And then I started with a professional game.

00:11:58.000 I did four fights in Spain.

00:12:01.000 And at some point, it was so difficult to find a fight for me that I had to start to travel in the European territory to get a fight.

00:12:11.000 Yeah, and everything started from that.

00:12:14.000 But it's fascinating because a lot of world champions generally, well, there's a good percentage of them come from an established gym that already has elite high-level competition.

00:12:24.000 But it seems like that's not the case with your gym.

00:12:26.000 No, it wasn't.

00:12:28.000 So I don't know.

00:12:29.000 I don't know what was the reason, to be honest, to came this far.

00:12:34.000 I don't know.

00:12:35.000 Well, that's always the question with champions.

00:12:37.000 Like, are champions born or are they bred?

00:12:40.000 Because there's gyms that developed, like Marvin Hagler came out of the Petronelli Brothers gym in Brockton, Massachusetts.

00:12:46.000 They're not known for world championship fighters, but Marvin Hagler is one of the greatest of all time.

00:12:51.000 It's like there was something inside of him that made him excel.

00:12:56.000 The same thing.

00:12:57.000 There was something inside me that made me the person who I am today.

00:13:04.000 Did you know when you first started training, when you first started doing MMA, that you were going to fight professionally?

00:13:09.000 Yeah, since the first day.

00:13:10.000 So my mindset always was the same, exactly the same as I have right now.

00:13:16.000 I'm like, if someone did it, I also can do it.

00:13:20.000 And if no one did it, I can be the first one to do it.

00:13:24.000 This is the mindset I always had.

00:13:26.000 It's like, yeah.

00:13:30.000 I think that the champion, they are not burned.

00:13:34.000 They are made also because you can burn in an extraordinary situation, but you can end up so bad, you know?

00:13:44.000 And it's the opposite also.

00:13:45.000 You can burn in a, I don't know, crazy situation and end up in a paradise.

00:13:51.000 Yeah, it's such an interesting thing because all champions are not the same type of person either.

00:13:57.000 You've got guys like Sugar Sean O'Malley who's silly and smokes weed and has crazy hair.

00:14:03.000 And then you've got guys like Alex Pereira, very stoic, very serious.

00:14:08.000 Everyone's different.

00:14:09.000 He's very serious.

00:14:10.000 I met him in Sydney.

00:14:12.000 I went with my brother because he made his UFC debut.

00:14:16.000 And yeah, he was kind of quiet.

00:14:19.000 Yeah, he's intense.

00:14:22.000 He's so serious.

00:14:23.000 Yeah, he's intense.

00:14:24.000 I remember watching him fight for the first time in Glory, in kickboxing, and I was like, Jesus Christ.

00:14:30.000 I was watching Kaos people.

00:14:32.000 I was like, this guy is different.

00:14:34.000 Huge. Great.

00:14:35.000 Crazy power.

00:14:37.000 His power is just ridiculous.

00:14:39.000 I mean, guys would be blocking.

00:14:40.000 Who do you love watching fight?

00:14:41.000 I love watching you fight.

00:14:43.000 Yeah? I'm a giant fan.

00:14:45.000 I like all styles, man.

00:14:47.000 I'm fascinated by the game in all different styles.

00:14:52.000 I mean, I like watching all the champions.

00:14:55.000 I mean, I love watching Marab fight.

00:14:57.000 He's a fucking animal.

00:14:59.000 He's the machine.

00:15:00.000 I love him.

00:15:01.000 He's an animal.

00:15:02.000 I mean, I just don't understand that cardio.

00:15:05.000 His cardio is fucking crazy.

00:15:07.000 It's like superhuman cardio.

00:15:09.000 And I'm gonna tell you something about Murab that surprised me.

00:15:13.000 That maybe you see him in the mat and he's not the most special guy, the most skillful guy in the room, but I don't know what happens to him when he gets inside that octagon.

00:15:26.000 Wow, that man is a fucking machine.

00:15:29.000 He's a fucking machine.

00:15:31.000 Right now you ask me who I love to watch.

00:15:35.000 Fight? That's my rap.

00:15:37.000 I would take my money.

00:15:39.000 When he's fighting in the pay-per-view right now, at this point, I'm like...

00:15:42.000 Take my money.

00:15:43.000 I love Umar, too.

00:15:45.000 Umar, you know, that fight was incredible.

00:15:47.000 That was one of the best fights I've ever seen because they're so skillful, so high level.

00:15:53.000 And, you know, to see him make Umar start to wilt.

00:15:57.000 To see Umar, like, you see the wobble when guys start getting fatigued.

00:16:00.000 You see this, like, a little bit of, like, loose movement in the way, you know, you see that?

00:16:04.000 Marab had none!

00:16:06.000 Zero. Just shooting like he was in the first round and the fifth round.

00:16:10.000 Because this is what I exactly think that happens to Omar.

00:16:13.000 Because you see Mirab from outside, like you're sitting and you are seeing him training or fighting and you're like, he's not going to be able to take me down.

00:16:22.000 He's not going to be able to do that to me.

00:16:24.000 And then you get inside that octagon with him and everything changes.

00:16:29.000 Yeah. It's like you have a...

00:16:31.000 A machine in front of you who has, like, non-stop.

00:16:34.000 Daniel Cormier went to visit him right after he won the title.

00:16:38.000 Daniel Cormier went to his house on Sunday.

00:16:40.000 Merab wasn't home.

00:16:41.000 He was out running.

00:16:42.000 Yeah? He won the title on Saturday.

00:16:44.000 Daniel went to his house on Sunday.

00:16:46.000 Merab's out running.

00:16:47.000 Wow, he's crazy.

00:16:48.000 He came to Spain also to help me once when I had the training camp.

00:16:52.000 I was supposed to fight with Moser.

00:16:54.000 He came to help me.

00:16:56.000 Crazy. The same exactly.

00:16:58.000 We were finishing the training.

00:17:00.000 He was going for a run.

00:17:02.000 He was going actually to his house running.

00:17:06.000 Yeah, there's no shortcuts.

00:17:07.000 No, there's no shortcuts.

00:17:09.000 No shortcuts.

00:17:10.000 But to answer your question, I'm fascinated by all the different styles.

00:17:15.000 I like watching everybody fight.

00:17:17.000 I love Volkanovski.

00:17:19.000 I love watching him fight this past weekend.

00:17:22.000 He's so great.

00:17:24.000 I was so happy for him this Saturday because he really deserved to get that title back.

00:17:30.000 Does it bother you to see someone win your title?

00:17:34.000 No, not at all.

00:17:35.000 You're good?

00:17:36.000 I'm good.

00:17:37.000 Happy for him.

00:17:38.000 You established.

00:17:39.000 You won.

00:17:39.000 You defended.

00:17:40.000 I won.

00:17:41.000 I defended.

00:17:42.000 Right now I have a completely different challenge in front of me.

00:17:45.000 I wish him nothing but the best and to everyone.

00:17:47.000 I wish the best wins all the time.

00:17:49.000 That's great.

00:17:50.000 Yeah. That's great.

00:17:51.000 What about Paddy Pimlet, though?

00:17:54.000 He did a great job.

00:17:55.000 He did a great job.

00:17:56.000 He did what he had to do.

00:17:58.000 He did.

00:17:59.000 But for me, it's like, I'm going to be completely honest with you.

00:18:04.000 For me, Chandler, he never was an extraordinary fighter.

00:18:09.000 He was an average level of fighter.

00:18:13.000 Who did he beat in the UFC?

00:18:15.000 Dan Hooker and Tony Ferguson.

00:18:16.000 Dan Hooker.

00:18:18.000 Yeah. Dan Hooker's a good fighter.

00:18:23.000 Well, Dan Hooker had that war with Dustin Poirier.

00:18:26.000 Dustin Poirier's a very good fighter.

00:18:28.000 How many loses he has?

00:18:29.000 He's got a few losses.

00:18:31.000 He's a good fighter.

00:18:32.000 Very entertaining fighter for the fans.

00:18:34.000 He's a wild dog.

00:18:35.000 He's a dog.

00:18:36.000 He goes inside that octagon and he fights.

00:18:42.000 But yeah.

00:18:43.000 I think he's on a resurgence.

00:18:45.000 I think, you know, he had a skid for a while and now he's rebuilding himself.

00:18:49.000 And he's on a resurgence.

00:18:49.000 You smile.

00:18:50.000 Look at you, motherfucker.

00:18:54.000 So he beat Dan Hooker and Tony Ferguson when he was like almost four years old.

00:18:59.000 I think, honestly, we got Michael Chandler after his prime.

00:19:03.000 If you go watch Michael Chandler fight Eddie Alvarez and Bellator, those were fucking crazy fights.

00:19:08.000 Crazy fights.

00:19:09.000 Yeah, but at the end of the day, you see wars.

00:19:12.000 It's a very competitive fight.

00:19:14.000 You see almost a bar fight.

00:19:16.000 You see two guys in the middle of the octagon exchanging punches, but you don't see technique.

00:19:22.000 You don't see skills.

00:19:23.000 You see a great fight, because as a fan, it's very entertaining to watch fights like that.

00:19:29.000 But if you really...

00:19:31.000 Think about it.

00:19:32.000 It's like you don't see skills in that fight.

00:19:35.000 You don't see someone trying to take you down, control you, some great submissions, great transitions.

00:19:41.000 I don't know if it's striking.

00:19:42.000 You see a guy that he's like looking for a combination.

00:19:46.000 He's looking for his moment, creating spaces.

00:19:49.000 You don't see like, I don't know.

00:19:51.000 I see what you're saying.

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00:21:18.000 So it's not as tactical or technical.

00:21:22.000 Exactly. It's just wild dogs.

00:21:24.000 It's just wild dogs.

00:21:25.000 I mean, that's why Michael Chandler is so popular because he fights like a wild dog.

00:21:29.000 Exactly. That's cool.

00:21:30.000 That's cool.

00:21:31.000 You need the guys also like him.

00:21:33.000 But I would never recommend my friend to fight like that.

00:21:36.000 Exactly. I never would recommend to someone, watch this guy and learn something.

00:21:41.000 Right, right, right.

00:21:42.000 Learn, yeah.

00:21:44.000 It's like, he's so entertaining, but sometimes it's best to not be as entertaining and just to be better.

00:21:51.000 Exactly. Yeah, and shut people down.

00:21:54.000 At the same time, you don't have to be Bilal.

00:21:57.000 Right. I see what you're saying.

00:21:59.000 But Bilal, I think, gets...

00:22:02.000 Too much bad rap.

00:22:04.000 Like Balaz, when he beat up Sean Brady, that was very entertaining.

00:22:07.000 And Sean Brady's very good.

00:22:09.000 You know, I think Balaz just does what it takes to win.

00:22:12.000 And when you're in a division...

00:22:14.000 And also, like, he didn't really have a background in wrestling at the level that a lot of these guys did.

00:22:19.000 He had to develop that over time.

00:22:22.000 Yeah, but there are two type of champions for me.

00:22:25.000 Like, there are champions who prepare themselves to win.

00:22:28.000 And there are the other ones who prepare themselves to dominate.

00:22:32.000 I prepare myself not to win because I know that I'm going to win.

00:22:35.000 I want to win in fashion.

00:22:37.000 I want to dominate.

00:22:38.000 I want more people.

00:22:39.000 I want people to be entertained.

00:22:41.000 I want people to be like, wow, I'm happy that I spend the money this Saturday night going watch this guy.

00:22:47.000 This is what I want.

00:22:48.000 Yeah, someone was talking about that recently on Instagram.

00:22:51.000 I don't remember who the coach was, but he was talking about levels of athletes, that there's people that train to compete, there's people that train to win, and then there's people that train to dominate, to be the greatest of all time.

00:23:07.000 Exactly. And there's a different mindset.

00:23:08.000 There's a never-satisfied, always-improving mindset that the great champions have.

00:23:13.000 All the time.

00:23:14.000 I want the people to be entertained all the time.

00:23:18.000 When actually I started with the MMA, I was recording myself all the sparrings.

00:23:26.000 And after that, I was re-watching my sparring.

00:23:29.000 I was like, will I pay my money to watch this?

00:23:34.000 What do I have to change in my game to be more entertained?

00:23:39.000 And this is how I was looking at myself all the time.

00:23:43.000 I was very...

00:23:44.000 Critical with myself.

00:23:46.000 And this is how I develop and develop and develop.

00:23:50.000 And all the time I go inside the octagon, I don't go there just to win.

00:23:54.000 You know what I mean?

00:23:56.000 I want everyone to be like, wow, what he just did.

00:24:00.000 How he did it.

00:24:01.000 He was the greatest of all time and he made him look easy.

00:24:06.000 This is what I want.

00:24:07.000 I want to change the game.

00:24:09.000 I want you to say to your friend, watch this guy and learn something.

00:24:13.000 Yeah, well, mission accomplished.

00:24:16.000 So far, right?

00:24:18.000 So far, so good.

00:24:19.000 And now a new journey into the lightweight division.

00:24:23.000 I don't understand why they won't just book you and Islam.

00:24:27.000 There's many times that I wish I was running the UFC.

00:24:30.000 I would change so many different things.

00:24:31.000 That would be one of the first things I would change.

00:24:33.000 I'm like, book that fight.

00:24:34.000 Book that fight right away.

00:24:35.000 You would do some fights also in Mars, I'm sure.

00:24:40.000 I would probably.

00:24:41.000 Do you all go with the Starship?

00:24:43.000 I got some wacky ideas.

00:24:45.000 I don't even think they should fight in a cage.

00:24:48.000 Yeah? Yeah, I think the cage is an unnecessary...

00:24:51.000 Wow. I think it's an unnecessary element in fighting.

00:24:58.000 Like to push someone against something or to be able to get up from something.

00:25:02.000 I don't think it's necessary.

00:25:04.000 I think they should be in like a basketball court.

00:25:06.000 Like a basketball court that's matted up.

00:25:08.000 Have a big space.

00:25:10.000 Have a warning track where you can't if you go outside the warning track too many times you could lose points Okay, and so when someone takes you down you have to actually get up I also think at the end of a round like say if you got a guy mounted at the end of the round You start the next round mounted on him of course Yeah,

00:25:28.000 I don't think of course because why would you give him the advantage of getting up when he never got up?

00:25:33.000 He never got up You have to earn a get-up.

00:25:36.000 You have to stand up by yourself.

00:25:38.000 I love it.

00:25:38.000 I never thought about that, actually.

00:25:41.000 No stand-ups, ever.

00:25:43.000 Ever. No stand-ups.

00:25:44.000 Unless someone commits a foul.

00:25:45.000 If someone commits a foul and you want to stand them up and take a point away, that's fine.

00:25:49.000 But if the guy's at the bottom and he commits a foul, if the guy's at the bottom and he gouges someone's eyes on purpose, take a point away, put him right back in the same spot.

00:25:56.000 Wow. Because otherwise, say if you're fighting a guy like Alex Pereira, who's never taking anybody down.

00:26:02.000 He's just going to strike with you, right?

00:26:04.000 Okay. Why would you let him back up again and have the advantage of him standing up again?

00:26:09.000 The beginning of the round, he starts standing up again.

00:26:12.000 Now you got to take him down again.

00:26:13.000 But also, you don't think that it's a part of the show?

00:26:17.000 It is a part of the show, but I don't give a fuck about that.

00:26:21.000 I mean, I'm a hardcore fan.

00:26:23.000 I'm a purist.

00:26:24.000 I think it should be about fighting, about elite fighting.

00:26:27.000 And elite fighting is you got to get up.

00:26:30.000 Like, if a wrestler takes you down and he just does this to you, and it's not entertaining, but if he can do that to you, that's tough shit.

00:26:38.000 That's what he did.

00:26:39.000 You would change also the time range, like, or you would leave a three rounds of five minutes with one minute rest?

00:26:45.000 The good thing about five minute rounds, the good thing about five minute rounds is it's sustainable and guys can fight at a high pace.

00:26:52.000 If you had, like, just...

00:26:54.000 One 15-minute round guys would be exhausted and the end of it would be sloppy It wouldn't be the same the pace would be much slower.

00:27:02.000 It wouldn't be as good So I think there's nothing wrong with rounds, but I think it's one fight.

00:27:07.000 It's not five fights So why does he stand up at the end of every round?

00:27:12.000 I think if a guy takes you down and he's got you mounted with like trapped an arm and he's punching your ribs trying to secure an arm triangle, why does he get to stand up again?

00:27:23.000 It doesn't make any sense.

00:27:24.000 That's true.

00:27:25.000 Especially if he's a striker and you wasted all that energy getting him to the ground and you got so close to cinching up a submission and then all of a sudden he's back on his feet again.

00:27:33.000 And then clink, you have to stand up.

00:27:35.000 And he didn't even earn it.

00:27:36.000 Start him right back down there.

00:27:37.000 No cage, no stand-ups.

00:27:40.000 No stand-ups ever.

00:27:41.000 If everybody boos, Tough shit.

00:27:42.000 Go watch baseball.

00:27:44.000 Go watch something else.

00:27:46.000 You wouldn't like to see, at some point, the world championships in mixed martial arts.

00:27:53.000 Like, for example, let's say the seven best fighters from the United States in every weight class against seven best fighters from, I don't know, from China or from Russia.

00:28:06.000 Yeah, I would love that.

00:28:07.000 The best flyweight against the best flyweight from the United States.

00:28:11.000 And you do that, and you have seven fights because you have seven weight divisions.

00:28:16.000 And if you win four weight divisions, that country won.

00:28:20.000 Yeah. That would be fun also.

00:28:22.000 That would be great.

00:28:23.000 That's a great idea.

00:28:24.000 I love that idea.

00:28:25.000 Yeah, I think that idea sounds really good.

00:28:28.000 And also, there is a bit of an issue.

00:28:30.000 With the UFC being the premier organization for martial arts.

00:28:35.000 The UFC is like, if you're not a champion in the UFC, no one thinks of you as a world champion.

00:28:40.000 You're a world champion.

00:28:42.000 World champion.

00:28:43.000 Someone can fight in the PFL and they can say, oh, it's the PFL world champion.

00:28:46.000 Everybody's like, right.

00:28:47.000 Come on.

00:28:48.000 Come on.

00:28:49.000 Great fighters, but at the end of the day...

00:28:51.000 You know that you have all the best fighters, the best collection of fighters in the UFC.

00:28:56.000 Yes, but...

00:28:58.000 I watch 1FC, and I watch some of those fucking animals that they have over there, and I'm like, Jesus Christ, these guys are good, man.

00:29:05.000 Some of these guys are good.

00:29:06.000 And, you know, they're calling them 1FC world champions.

00:29:09.000 I'm like, I'd like to see them.

00:29:12.000 I'd like to see them, because some guys look real good until they fight elite talent, and we've seen that before.

00:29:18.000 Like, some guys look like destroyers, and then they get in the UFC against guys who are just a little bit more technical, a little smarter, and they get pieced up.

00:29:25.000 What happens is that I think that in one championship, most of the time, you used to fight with strikers.

00:29:33.000 In the UFC, you don't know who you're going to face next.

00:29:37.000 Maybe he's a wrestler.

00:29:38.000 Maybe you're going to fight Demian Maia.

00:29:40.000 Who wants to fight you on the ground?

00:29:42.000 Maybe you fight Alex Pereira.

00:29:44.000 You don't fucking know.

00:29:45.000 So you have to be good everywhere and you have to be prepared for everything.

00:29:49.000 In one championship, maybe you are good at striking and you can be a world champion.

00:29:54.000 Yeah, maybe.

00:29:55.000 I mean, there are some good grapplers over there, but my point is, I really wish there was no organizations.

00:30:03.000 I really do.

00:30:04.000 I really wish it was just all the best fighters competing.

00:30:06.000 Look, I love the UFC.

00:30:08.000 I've been working for the UFC forever.

00:30:10.000 My loyalty is to the UFC, but I wish there was just...

00:30:14.000 Only fighting.

00:30:16.000 No organizations.

00:30:17.000 Just like boxing is.

00:30:20.000 But the problem with boxing is it's very difficult to get these guys because they all have different promoters.

00:30:24.000 Exactly. And if they're all the same promoter, they all get fucked when it comes to negotiation.

00:30:28.000 If they're all the same promoter and the same managers.

00:30:31.000 You know something about soccer?

00:30:34.000 Yeah, I know a little bit about it.

00:30:35.000 How they do the Champions League.

00:30:37.000 They have, for example, let's say the Real Madrid.

00:30:41.000 They have a team.

00:30:42.000 That's why I would, what I would do is like I would create a team against another team.

00:30:48.000 For example, I have Real Madrid.

00:30:51.000 I've signed like the best seven fighters in the world, whoever I want in different weight classes.

00:30:57.000 And you have, for example, Barcelona.

00:30:59.000 You sign the seven best fighters in the world, around the world.

00:31:03.000 You train them in one place.

00:31:04.000 You do like all the strategy and we meet each other.

00:31:08.000 We do a competition like a Champions League.

00:31:10.000 And we do, like, the whole year calendar and the best wins.

00:31:14.000 At the end of it, we do, like, the finals and we give them the space to recover.

00:31:18.000 We create, like, a competition between teams, not that individual people.

00:31:25.000 You know what I mean?

00:31:25.000 Yes. So I would do something like that.

00:31:28.000 That's a great idea, but the problem is I think guys get injured, guys fall out, guys get sick.

00:31:33.000 That's right.

00:31:34.000 In soccer, you have guys that, in your position, you always have two or three guys.

00:31:39.000 That if you are injured, you have another guy that can change you, switch you, you know, between the rounds even.

00:31:47.000 In soccer, sometimes it happens.

00:31:49.000 Someone gets injured in a stadium and they can switch them.

00:31:56.000 Yeah, that makes sense.

00:31:57.000 But I mean, at the end of the day, like imagine, say, if you get scheduled to fight Islam.

00:32:03.000 And Islam gets injured and Armand Saroukian takes his place or something like that.

00:32:09.000 The NBA 82 game grind is done and now the real fun begins.

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00:33:53.000 Again, you are, like, focused on individuals.

00:33:57.000 You are not focused on teams.

00:33:59.000 Because no one is going to care who is going to fight from the flyweight division, who is going to be your representative from the flyweight division or from the lightweight division.

00:34:07.000 I'm like...

00:34:09.000 Maybe I bring you Islam, that I have him in my team, or also I could have Charles Oliveira in the same team.

00:34:17.000 Or maybe I bring Charles Oliveira because I think that against your team, the guy you have in the lightweight division, Charles does it better.

00:34:25.000 Right, right, right.

00:34:26.000 They do that with grappling, like quintet.

00:34:28.000 They do that.

00:34:28.000 They have, like, grappling teams.

00:34:30.000 Yeah, I mean, that would be interesting.

00:34:32.000 I just, there's certain fighters, like, I was...

00:34:35.000 My main regret in MMA that we never got to see Fedor fight in the UFC when he was in his prime.

00:34:42.000 That's true.

00:34:43.000 If I could have one thing, one fight in their prime, Fedor, Cain Velasquez.

00:34:49.000 Oh, that would be a great fight.

00:34:52.000 Oh, my God.

00:34:52.000 Great fight.

00:34:53.000 In their prime.

00:34:54.000 That would have been incredible.

00:34:55.000 Incredible. Actually, Cain was an amazing fighter.

00:34:59.000 Bro. That guy had a gas tank that was superhuman.

00:35:03.000 For a heavyweight, it didn't even make any sense.

00:35:05.000 You would see guys just fall apart.

00:35:07.000 They would just wilt.

00:35:08.000 Pure boxing style.

00:35:09.000 Pure boxing style, great wrestling, incredible chin, and just indomitable will.

00:35:15.000 Too tough for his own good, which is why he wound up, towards the end of his career, his body had deteriorated so much.

00:35:21.000 He had so many back injuries, neck injuries, shoulder injury, knee injury.

00:35:25.000 Actually, what's going on with him?

00:35:27.000 He's in jail right now.

00:35:30.000 Yeah, he got sentenced.

00:35:31.000 He got sentenced to five years.

00:35:33.000 And the judge said this was the least amount he could sentence him.

00:35:36.000 He didn't want to sentence him.

00:35:37.000 Well, what happened to him?

00:35:38.000 Do you know that?

00:35:39.000 Yes. So Cain's son was going to daycare, and there was a man who molested him at daycare.

00:35:48.000 Cain found out about it, chased the man in his car, and shot at him.

00:35:52.000 He tried to catch him in his car and shot at him.

00:35:54.000 Cain gets arrested.

00:35:56.000 Cain stayed in jail.

00:35:57.000 The guy gets arrested and he got out on bail.

00:36:00.000 I don't know what's happening with the guy.

00:36:02.000 I don't know if he's been sentenced yet or what.

00:36:05.000 But this guy molested his son.

00:36:07.000 Multiple times.

00:36:08.000 I don't know how many times.

00:36:09.000 But he did what every father would have done.

00:36:14.000 If you're not a father, you do not understand the murderous rage you would have if some man molested your baby.

00:36:23.000 You don't understand.

00:36:25.000 You would see red in a way that no one can describe to you unless you're a parent.

00:36:32.000 That fucking anger is – I mean if there's ever a plea for temporary insanity, that's the plea.

00:36:41.000 If there's ever a person who could justifiably say I was temporarily insane, it's a father that's chasing after someone, especially a man who molests your boy.

00:36:55.000 Everybody understands it.

00:36:56.000 Everybody understands it.

00:36:57.000 He should have never gone to jail.

00:36:59.000 He's not a threat to society.

00:37:00.000 He's not a danger.

00:37:02.000 He shouldn't be in prison.

00:37:03.000 And he already did three years.

00:37:05.000 He was already in jail for three years.

00:37:06.000 And he has been a great example for so many upcoming guys, like for the new generation.

00:37:12.000 I don't know why...

00:37:13.000 Guys like him have to end up in the jail for something like that.

00:37:18.000 Exactly. He didn't rob anyone.

00:37:19.000 He didn't...

00:37:20.000 Exactly. Exactly.

00:37:22.000 It's horrific.

00:37:23.000 It's horrific.

00:37:24.000 You know, I mean, I just don't understand it.

00:37:26.000 I mean, the judge's hands were tied.

00:37:29.000 He had to make a sentence.

00:37:30.000 And this is, I think, the minimum amount.

00:37:33.000 They were trying to give him 30 years.

00:37:35.000 Yeah. For attempted murder.

00:37:37.000 Because he was just shooting at this guy.

00:37:38.000 And obviously, when you're driving and shooting, you could miss him and kill a bystander.

00:37:43.000 It's very dangerous.

00:37:44.000 But also, the guy was in a murderous rage for a good reason.

00:37:50.000 For a good reason.

00:37:52.000 And if he killed that guy, the world would be better off.

00:37:55.000 That's my feeling.

00:37:56.000 That's true.

00:37:57.000 That's also true.

00:37:58.000 A guy like that walking around and molest children should be dead.

00:38:01.000 That's just my feeling.

00:38:03.000 All this thought of...

00:38:04.000 I mean, there's a bunch of people on the left here in the United States that...

00:38:08.000 They have this crazy way of looking at pedophiles.

00:38:11.000 They call them minor attracted persons.

00:38:14.000 They want to make it a protected class and say it's like someone being attracted to someone of the opposite sex or someone being attracted to someone of the same sex.

00:38:23.000 No, it's not.

00:38:24.000 No, it's not.

00:38:25.000 You're victimizing children, the most vulnerable and protected people that we have.

00:38:30.000 Of course.

00:38:30.000 You can't even talk to the kids about something like that.

00:38:34.000 You know what I mean?

00:38:35.000 Yeah. I heard so many crazy things about that topic.

00:38:40.000 I know.

00:38:42.000 Let's leave it right there or we'll just get in trouble.

00:38:45.000 Yeah, I mean, kill them all.

00:38:47.000 That's how I feel.

00:38:48.000 Kill them all.

00:38:49.000 Anybody who wants to do that to children, there's no reason for them to exist.

00:38:55.000 You're just gonna ruin lives, and not just their lives, but you're gonna ruin all the people whose lives they ruin,'cause they're all fucked up now.

00:39:03.000 You kill so much potential from a human being to do that to a baby.

00:39:10.000 It's just insane.

00:39:11.000 It's just fucking insane.

00:39:13.000 So that's, unfortunately, the story with Kane right now.

00:39:16.000 And, you know, he was out for a while.

00:39:18.000 Once they let him out, he was coaching at AKA.

00:39:21.000 And, you know, he's an amazing coach.

00:39:24.000 We hope that they're going to think it again and they're going to give him the freedom he deserves.

00:39:31.000 Yeah, I mean, I hope Trump pardons him.

00:39:33.000 I mean, that's what I really hope.

00:39:34.000 I hope so, too.

00:39:35.000 I hope Dana makes something happen with that.

00:39:37.000 Maybe that's possible.

00:39:38.000 I mean, that might be the best option.

00:39:42.000 But, anyway.

00:39:43.000 In his prime, Cain Velasquez versus Fedor.

00:39:47.000 That's my biggest regret, a fight that we never got to see.

00:39:50.000 Because when Fedor was fighting in pride...

00:39:54.000 You know, and this is before the UFC was really huge, right?

00:39:57.000 Because they were huge in Japan in like 2001, 2002.

00:40:01.000 They were filling stadiums in Japan.

00:40:03.000 When the UFC was just sort of emerging in the United States, it really hadn't hit its peak until 2005.

00:40:10.000 And why do you think that they never bring him to the UFC?

00:40:14.000 Well, they tried.

00:40:16.000 Yeah. I gotta be careful how I say this.

00:40:19.000 So Fedor was controlled by some Russian people that were very rough men.

00:40:29.000 Okay. As it were, you know, gangster type characters.

00:40:33.000 And they had a bunch of negotiations with the UFC, but there were very unreasonable demands.

00:40:38.000 Like they wanted...

00:40:39.000 Part of the promotion.

00:40:41.000 They wanted to own a piece of everything.

00:40:44.000 They wanted a lot.

00:40:45.000 Because they knew that with Fedor, they had their golden ticket, and they wanted to play it out as much as possible.

00:40:51.000 And negotiations were very intense and very confrontational.

00:40:58.000 They got bad, where Dana had to up his security.

00:41:00.000 It got heavy.

00:41:03.000 These were dangerous people.

00:41:07.000 Yeah, I can tell you more off-air.

00:41:10.000 Wow, I didn't know that story.

00:41:12.000 I'll tell you more off-air.

00:41:13.000 You should talk to Dana about it.

00:41:15.000 It got crazy.

00:41:16.000 Wow. That's why.

00:41:19.000 Because I always thought, like, why they don't bring that guy to the UFC?

00:41:23.000 Because it's going to be so fun for the fans.

00:41:26.000 They wanted to co-promote.

00:41:28.000 They wanted to be a part of the promotion.

00:41:29.000 They wanted more than they deserved.

00:41:32.000 They didn't just want Fedor to get paid.

00:41:34.000 They wanted to get paid.

00:41:36.000 They wanted to make a lot of money, and they wanted to get their hooks into the UFC.

00:41:39.000 Got you, got you.

00:41:40.000 Yeah. Russian gangsters.

00:41:42.000 Yeah. Yeah.

00:41:45.000 I get it.

00:41:46.000 It's crazy how they rule everything.

00:41:50.000 Well, Pride was run by the Yakuza.

00:41:52.000 So it was Japanese gangsters and Russian gangsters.

00:41:55.000 I speak the same language.

00:41:57.000 They got along fine.

00:41:58.000 But then when they came over to the UFC, the UFC was like, that's not the place.

00:42:04.000 No, we'll give him a lot of money.

00:42:06.000 We want him to fight in the UFC.

00:42:08.000 And it never took place, unfortunately.

00:42:10.000 Wow. Yeah.

00:42:11.000 So crazy.

00:42:13.000 Yeah. So he's about to fight again.

00:42:14.000 Fedor's going to fight bare knuckle.

00:42:16.000 Yeah, I heard something about that.

00:42:18.000 Yeah. I think Conor's promotion.

00:42:21.000 I think it's Conor's promotion, that BKFD.

00:42:23.000 Actually, do you think he's going to come back, Conor?

00:42:26.000 If I had to bet, no.

00:42:27.000 No. Why?

00:42:29.000 Because he hasn't come back yet.

00:42:30.000 And he could have.

00:42:32.000 You know, if he really wanted to, he would have been back in the gym, had a fight scheduled, drug tested, clean, training, gone through a camp, had a fight.

00:42:41.000 Like, he had a broken toe before the first fight with Chandler.

00:42:44.000 I understand that.

00:42:45.000 Okay. Why should you fight in a broken toe, especially a guy who moves a lot, like Conor?

00:42:50.000 He relies on movement so much.

00:42:51.000 Yeah, I get it.

00:42:52.000 So heal that toe up.

00:42:53.000 What's that?

00:42:54.000 That's two months.

00:42:55.000 Broken toe's two months.

00:42:56.000 Yeah. And so then you're back in camp.

00:42:59.000 And then you reschedule a fight and then you fight again.

00:43:02.000 But he didn't.

00:43:04.000 And also partying, constant partying, all these legal problems that he has, you know, scooting around on yachts and, you know, driving around in a Lamborghini.

00:43:17.000 He's wealthy.

00:43:19.000 He's done.

00:43:20.000 Maybe. I mean, what's really sad is if he comes back when he's like 39 or 40. And his body just doesn't have it anymore, you know?

00:43:29.000 So right now he actually has a great opponent, Mike Chandler.

00:43:32.000 He could fight him.

00:43:33.000 Right, right.

00:43:34.000 They could fight right now, yeah.

00:43:36.000 They could fight.

00:43:37.000 Because if they put him against Potty, I think Potty beats him easy now.

00:43:43.000 Well, a lot of years off, right?

00:43:45.000 A lot of years off.

00:43:47.000 You know, on the feet, Conor's a motherfucker.

00:43:49.000 No, on the feet, he's a motherfucker.

00:43:52.000 I know that.

00:43:53.000 He can knock out, like, everyone.

00:43:55.000 If he's still the same guy.

00:43:56.000 Yeah. But the thing is, he's 36 now, you know?

00:43:59.000 And if he's natural, also, reality.

00:44:03.000 Okay, when he breaks his leg, he gets off the drug testing, right?

00:44:07.000 Because he's got to do something to heal his leg quicker.

00:44:09.000 So what is he going to do?

00:44:11.000 Well, you're going to take steroids.

00:44:12.000 So if you're going to take steroids, and you're already 34, Ish.

00:44:16.000 Your endocrine system gets fucked up by taking steroids where your body stops producing testosterone.

00:44:22.000 So I've had explained to me by scientists before and essentially say if you take steroids for six months, you need at least six months before your body starts producing testosterone at a normal level again.

00:44:36.000 Some people think it's twice as long.

00:44:38.000 So that would be a year.

00:44:40.000 A year of no steroids before your body regains its natural testosterone levels.

00:44:45.000 If it does, depending.

00:44:47.000 If it does.

00:44:48.000 You think that if someone puts steroids in his body, he never comes back as his normal body?

00:44:59.000 Vitor Belfort is the best example of this, right?

00:45:01.000 He's the best guy that we could use as an example.

00:45:03.000 But he took a bunch of steroids.

00:45:06.000 He took all the steroids.

00:45:10.000 Luke Rockhold said when he was weighing in, when he fought him, he said, this guy's got muscles on his fucking teeth.

00:45:16.000 Yeah. Exactly, bro.

00:45:19.000 He was shredded.

00:45:21.000 But if you go back to Vitor when he fought Anderson Silva, before they had testosterone use exemptions, he didn't look like that at all.

00:45:28.000 No. He looked old, actually.

00:45:30.000 He looked like his body was relaxed.

00:45:33.000 Soft. Because Vitor, yeah.

00:45:35.000 So look at the difference.

00:45:36.000 Before you saw it and after you saw it.

00:45:38.000 That is a crazy example.

00:45:41.000 So when he fought Chris Weidman, his body looked soft and his muscles looked empty.

00:45:48.000 They just didn't look the same.

00:45:49.000 And that was just a couple of years after...

00:45:52.000 They fucked up with the testosterone use exemption.

00:45:55.000 Because what they did was...

00:45:57.000 They're test guys, and if you're low on testosterone, oh, you can have a testosterone use exemption.

00:46:02.000 But you could get low on testosterone in a night if you wanted to.

00:46:06.000 All you'd have to do is eat a bunch of shitty food and drink and stay up all night, and your body's natural levels of testosterone would be low.

00:46:14.000 So you could go get drunk.

00:46:16.000 You, who has normal, healthy levels of testosterone, you could wreck your body on purpose.

00:46:21.000 Then go get drug tested and they say,"Oh, Ilya, you have low testosterone.

00:46:26.000 I'm going to prescribe to you testosterone exemption." And so then you go and take testosterone and you become a fucking animal.

00:46:33.000 And you're healthy.

00:46:34.000 You don't need it.

00:46:35.000 So there was a lot of guys that were taking it that didn't need it.

00:46:38.000 So you think that at this point there are guys in the UFC that are taking like steroids?

00:46:44.000 Let's say steroids.

00:46:45.000 I would imagine there's...

00:46:46.000 For sure someone doing something they're not supposed to do.

00:46:49.000 Yeah. Wow.

00:46:50.000 I don't know because at this point I feel that they are so strict.

00:46:54.000 They are.

00:46:55.000 They are so strict.

00:46:56.000 But there's a lot of guys that do their camps in faraway lands.

00:47:00.000 And I think that people always used to joke around about Dagestan.

00:47:04.000 Try getting a USADA guy into Dagestan.

00:47:09.000 The moment he lands, everybody's going to call everybody.

00:47:12.000 They did some drug test in Dagestan.

00:47:15.000 They test Khabib, for example, in Dagestan?

00:47:18.000 No. I'm sure.

00:47:19.000 I'm sure they must have.

00:47:21.000 And what if someone landed from USADA?

00:47:23.000 Wasn't there an issue where some guys from USADA and Khabib's camp, they had like...

00:47:29.000 They had some issue.

00:47:30.000 Some issue, yeah.

00:47:31.000 They had some, I remember, something like that.

00:47:33.000 You go over there and you want to get out?

00:47:37.000 You got to be careful.

00:47:38.000 Nah, you get out.

00:47:41.000 But I would imagine that if you want to avoid being tested all the time, like say, if you are in America and you live in Arizona, whatever, they'll visit you all the time.

00:47:53.000 They'll test you a bunch.

00:47:54.000 There's some people that have been tested a bunch.

00:47:56.000 They get tested a lot.

00:47:58.000 And then some people that don't get tested as much.

00:48:00.000 And if you're going to go and do your camp in Thailand or you're going to go do your camp in Dagestan, it's a lot more difficult to get to you to test you randomly.

00:48:09.000 Yeah, but they can anyway.

00:48:10.000 They can.

00:48:10.000 So you can trust on if they come or not.

00:48:15.000 But there's short-acting stuff.

00:48:17.000 There's like when Alex Rodriguez, is that his name?

00:48:22.000 A-Rod, right?

00:48:22.000 Yeah, when he was fighting, or excuse me, when he was playing baseball, rather, they were taking gummies, testosterone gummies.

00:48:29.000 Okay. And the testosterone literally only lasts for a few hours, and it's out of your system.

00:48:35.000 Wow. Yeah.

00:48:36.000 I never heard that.

00:48:37.000 Yeah. There's certain stuff that you can take, like EPO, that's very short-lasting, very difficult to test, very short-lasting.

00:48:45.000 In my case, I don't like that because I wouldn't feel good with myself.

00:48:50.000 Right. I'm going to feel like I'm cheating.

00:48:52.000 Right. I don't deserve the win because I'm cheating.

00:48:55.000 I'm a cheater.

00:48:56.000 Right. I can have that thought about myself.

00:49:00.000 All the time when I walk inside the octagon...

00:49:02.000 I feel that I didn't cheat and I deserve the win and that's why I'm gonna win.

00:49:08.000 Well that's why guys like BJ Penn are so impressive because BJ Penn was clean when everybody was cheating.

00:49:15.000 Yeah. Because back then, it was really difficult to test.

00:49:19.000 All they tested was at the weigh-ins.

00:49:21.000 So at the weigh-ins, that's like an intelligence test.

00:49:24.000 Like, if you cheat and take steroids intelligently, by the time you get to the weigh-ins, you're going to be clean.

00:49:30.000 If you do it with a doctor...

00:49:32.000 I know camps.

00:49:33.000 And I don't want to say the names, but they had scientists working for the camps.

00:49:38.000 And the scientists, these doctors, would study guys' blood work and make sure that they were clean by the time they got into camp or by the time they got into weigh-ins.

00:49:47.000 So when they were on the scale, they still had all the benefits of steroids, but they had no steroids in their system.

00:49:53.000 And their body hadn't started to deteriorate yet from the lack of steroids.

00:49:57.000 I know some camps also that they use steroids.

00:50:01.000 Yeah. For sure.

00:50:02.000 But yeah, for me, you can have all the muscles in the world, but if you are not mentally strong, because that's a so specific moment when you are in the backstage, you need your mind so badly.

00:50:16.000 You need it more than your body sometimes.

00:50:19.000 Because, as I told you, you can have all the muscles in the world, but you need this muscle as strong as possible, you know?

00:50:26.000 And if you know you cheated.

00:50:27.000 And if you know you're cheating, that's...

00:50:30.000 You are not what you in reality are saying that you are?

00:50:34.000 Right, right, right.

00:50:36.000 That's a tough one.

00:50:37.000 I don't want to see myself in that situation, never.

00:50:41.000 That's a champion's mindset.

00:50:43.000 Yeah. Yeah, that's a real champion's mindset.

00:50:45.000 Some guys, they just want to do anything to win.

00:50:48.000 They want to do anything to win.

00:50:49.000 And if they have to cheat to win, they'll cheat.

00:50:51.000 And they'll justify it by saying everybody cheats.

00:50:55.000 Yeah, I'm a god believer.

00:50:59.000 And my mindset is like, of course I want to win.

00:51:03.000 I prepare myself to win.

00:51:05.000 But if he destroys my plans, it's because maybe my plans could destroy me.

00:51:11.000 So I don't want to have anything because I want to have it.

00:51:15.000 If he decides it, if God decides to give it to me, I accept it.

00:51:21.000 I will do everything to get it because I decided from all my heart.

00:51:25.000 And if he says that if...

00:51:27.000 I desire it.

00:51:28.000 I have the faith.

00:51:29.000 I will get it.

00:51:31.000 And the reality is, if you give everything you have and you lose, you win a lesson.

00:51:38.000 And you realize you're not at the level that you need to be.

00:51:41.000 There's never a lose.

00:51:42.000 Or you win or you learn.

00:51:43.000 And learning is also a winning.

00:51:45.000 Right. Where did you develop your mindset?

00:51:48.000 Have you got any mental coaching?

00:51:51.000 Did you read books on psychology?

00:51:53.000 I read a lot of books.

00:51:55.000 I try to read at least 30 minutes a day.

00:51:59.000 But it's every day.

00:52:00.000 Every day.

00:52:01.000 What you do in your daily habits, it's what makes the difference, right?

00:52:08.000 Because we can decide our future, but we can decide our habits and our habits decide our future.

00:52:14.000 Yes. Yeah.

00:52:15.000 So what kind of stuff do you read?

00:52:19.000 I read more like...

00:52:21.000 I read a lot of books.

00:52:25.000 I love reading books, self-development books.

00:52:33.000 Also, how can I tell you?

00:52:39.000 Yeah, this is the most of the books I read, self-development books.

00:52:43.000 I read biographies of the people that I like.

00:52:48.000 For example, Donald Trump, Warren Buffett.

00:52:51.000 I read that kind of people.

00:52:53.000 Businessmen. Yeah, I try to.

00:52:55.000 Yeah? Yeah.

00:52:56.000 Why do you read businessmen's biographies?

00:52:59.000 Because at the end of the day, right now, I'm in sports, but at some point I'm going to retire.

00:53:05.000 I have to make a living from something, right?

00:53:08.000 Because I'm not going to be fighting my whole life, and I don't want it even.

00:53:13.000 So, yeah, I want to prepare myself.

00:53:17.000 If you want to have an extraordinary life, you have to be an extraordinary person, right?

00:53:22.000 Yes. Yeah, absolutely.

00:53:24.000 I'm trying to become an extraordinary person.

00:53:26.000 In all walks of life.

00:53:28.000 In all walks of life.

00:53:29.000 Yeah. So, do you have an idea of when you want to retire?

00:53:36.000 How old do you know?

00:53:37.000 Till I enjoy.

00:53:38.000 28. 28. Till I enjoy.

00:53:40.000 I don't know how many fights.

00:53:42.000 Maybe till 32, 34. Really?

00:53:46.000 Yeah. I don't know.

00:53:47.000 Till I enjoy.

00:53:48.000 Right now I'm enjoying.

00:53:49.000 I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow.

00:53:52.000 So you'll take that road when it comes?

00:53:55.000 What do you mean?

00:53:57.000 When that happens, when you no longer enjoy, then you will go on a different path.

00:54:03.000 Then you will retire.

00:54:04.000 I don't know.

00:54:05.000 Right now I want to become a lightweight world champion.

00:54:08.000 I want to hold that belt too.

00:54:11.000 I don't know what's going to happen then.

00:54:13.000 If I'm going to keep motivated, it's kind of difficult.

00:54:19.000 This is a fight game.

00:54:21.000 Fight game is so hard, so hard, because you have to go in and take someone's head off.

00:54:27.000 And you can't be that soft guy, you know what I mean, like that kind guy.

00:54:32.000 You've got to have that testosterone up.

00:54:36.000 You've got to be vicious.

00:54:37.000 Exactly. Yeah, you got to be technical, you got to be smart, but you also have to be vicious.

00:54:41.000 And at the same time, everyone from my family is involved in my career.

00:54:46.000 You know, at some point, maybe I will end up doing different things, maybe some businesses.

00:54:53.000 Like now, I'm doing different things, and I'm enjoying it also.

00:54:57.000 So you're doing different things outside of fighting as well?

00:55:00.000 Yeah, I have a promotion in Spain right now.

00:55:01.000 Oh, an MMA promotion?

00:55:03.000 MMA promotion.

00:55:04.000 What's it called?

00:55:05.000 Whoa. Whoa.

00:55:07.000 And the goal with woe is to...

00:55:09.000 Because, as you mentioned...

00:55:10.000 When you say woe, how are you spelling that?

00:55:13.000 Way of the warrior.

00:55:14.000 Oh, wow.

00:55:16.000 So, from Spain to get to the UFC before was so difficult.

00:55:21.000 I had to do so many crazy things to get to the UFC.

00:55:25.000 But right now, we create woe.

00:55:28.000 And actually, we are in the UFC Fight Pass.

00:55:31.000 Everyone can get in that promotion fight if you have the skills.

00:55:37.000 If you are ready, someone's going to see you, and they're going to sign you in the UFC.

00:55:41.000 The promoter's life is a hard life.

00:55:43.000 That's a hard job.

00:55:44.000 Yeah, you think so?

00:55:46.000 Yeah. It's very entertaining, to be honest.

00:55:47.000 When I talked to Dana, at least promoting for the UFC, like, I was talking to him this weekend, and he was telling me all the issues that they're having, and with different fights.

00:55:56.000 I was asking him some questions, like, what are you doing with this?

00:55:59.000 What are you doing with that?

00:55:59.000 And he starts telling me, oh, this guy wants that, and this is why I'm going to fight this guy.

00:56:02.000 Did he tell you something about me?

00:56:04.000 Maybe. Maybe a little bit.

00:56:06.000 If he did, I can't tell you.

00:56:08.000 I did ask who you're going to fight.

00:56:10.000 And they said, we're working on things.

00:56:11.000 But he was actually specifically talking about what happens if Bilal wins.

00:56:17.000 You know, because Islam and Bilal, they've been talking about Islam fighting Bilal.

00:56:23.000 That's going to happen.

00:56:24.000 I would like that to happen if Bilal wins.

00:56:27.000 But that's an if.

00:56:29.000 Jack Della Madalena is a bad motherfucker.

00:56:31.000 He's good, man.

00:56:32.000 That guy's good.

00:56:33.000 Even if he wins, they're going to make that fight happen.

00:56:36.000 Against Islam.

00:56:37.000 You think so?

00:56:39.000 Yeah. Well, if Jack Della Maddalena wins, then Jack is the new welterweight champion.

00:56:44.000 And, you know, maybe he fights Islam.

00:56:46.000 That makes a lot of sense.

00:56:47.000 The problem with Islam fighting Balal is that they train together.

00:56:51.000 And I think, you know, they had kind of said...

00:56:53.000 How many guys we see fighting between each other that they used to train before?

00:56:59.000 Oh, I agree.

00:57:00.000 I mean, I think they should fight.

00:57:02.000 Yeah, they should fight.

00:57:02.000 I definitely think they should fight.

00:57:04.000 I think Khabib doesn't like that idea.

00:57:08.000 Yeah. Yeah.

00:57:12.000 That's how I feel.

00:57:13.000 But it's not just that.

00:57:14.000 I mean, Jaina's always putting out a million fires.

00:57:17.000 I mean, think about it.

00:57:18.000 They have 500 fighters in the roster, at least.

00:57:22.000 And, you know, there's all these things that are happening.

00:57:25.000 Like the Armand Sarukian thing.

00:57:27.000 Like, his back hurts the day of the fight.

00:57:29.000 Wow. He's got to pull out.

00:57:31.000 This is fucking crazy.

00:57:33.000 You know what I mean?

00:57:34.000 Imagine that.

00:57:35.000 You have this whole promotion based around this elite fighter who fought Islam in his first fight.

00:57:41.000 Short notice.

00:57:42.000 They go to a very close decision, a very close fight.

00:57:45.000 Armand's gotten a lot better.

00:57:46.000 Islam's gotten a lot better.

00:57:48.000 Then they're going to fight again.

00:57:49.000 And then the day of, he hurts his back.

00:57:52.000 Crazy. It happens, yeah.

00:57:53.000 Very crazy.

00:57:54.000 But if you will be in the Danish place, who would be my next opponent?

00:58:00.000 Islam. 100%.

00:58:02.000 100%. I wish they...

00:58:04.000 I tried to tell them that this weekend.

00:58:06.000 That would be a great fight.

00:58:07.000 That's the fight to make.

00:58:09.000 Because you have a world champion versus a world champion.

00:58:12.000 Like, if anybody deserves a fight for the world title in the next weight class, it's you.

00:58:17.000 It's simple.

00:58:19.000 It's simple.

00:58:20.000 You knocked out Max Holloway.

00:58:21.000 I mean, it's simple.

00:58:22.000 You knocked out Alexander Volkanovsky, one of the greatest of all time.

00:58:26.000 It's simple.

00:58:27.000 That's a no-brainer.

00:58:28.000 That's the fight.

00:58:29.000 You know, he doesn't want to fight 45 anymore.

00:58:31.000 He wants to fight 55. We're all tighter strapped.

00:58:34.000 I mean, nobody would argue with that.

00:58:35.000 That would be a huge fight.

00:58:36.000 Everybody would get excited about it.

00:58:38.000 Yeah. Yeah.

00:58:39.000 Hopefully they make that fight happen.

00:58:41.000 Yeah, hopefully.

00:58:42.000 I don't have any say.

00:58:44.000 Like I said, I'd get rid of the cage.

00:58:47.000 I'd get rid of stand-ups.

00:58:48.000 I'd fuck everything up for them.

00:58:50.000 I would make it less marketable.

00:58:53.000 Probably. I would.

00:58:55.000 Anyways, if they give me the fight with Charles, it's going to be...

00:58:58.000 That's a great fight, too.

00:59:01.000 There's a lot of guys in that division.

00:59:03.000 There's a lot of good fights for you at 155 pounds.

00:59:06.000 Do you have a timeline of when you would like to fight at 155?

00:59:10.000 I would like to fight with Islam, that's for sure.

00:59:14.000 I would like to fight him.

00:59:16.000 But if they don't give you that fight, if they give you a number one contender fight, when would you like to fight next?

00:59:22.000 I wouldn't fight for a number one contender fight.

00:59:24.000 You only want to fight for the title?

00:59:25.000 Yeah, of course.

00:59:26.000 Really? Okay.

00:59:28.000 Of course.

00:59:29.000 I understand.

00:59:29.000 That makes sense to me.

00:59:31.000 Look, also, it's the most marketable fight.

00:59:34.000 Everybody else is lost to him.

00:59:35.000 I don't care.

00:59:36.000 If Islam decides that he doesn't want to fight me, I don't care.

00:59:39.000 I sit until you're going to have to fight me.

00:59:42.000 Okay? You say that you are the world champion, you're going to keep dominating the division, all that.

00:59:47.000 I'm here.

00:59:48.000 You can't keep avoiding me all the time.

00:59:51.000 So you would just sit on the sidelines rather than fight someone else?

00:59:54.000 I don't think that they're going to do that.

00:59:56.000 I don't think they would put me on a sideline because they asked me to...

01:00:01.000 I would K the belt because I told them that I wouldn't fight in 145 again.

01:00:05.000 But I get the promise that I would fight for Tyler in my next fight.

01:00:11.000 So how much time you will stop me from the fighting?

01:00:18.000 So they did give you a promise that when you vacated the belt that your next fight would be for the title?

01:00:22.000 Of course.

01:00:22.000 If they give that chance to everyone, why not to me?

01:00:25.000 They gave it to Henry Cejudo.

01:00:27.000 They gave it to Conor McGregor.

01:00:28.000 They gave it to George Sapir.

01:00:30.000 They gave it to everyone.

01:00:33.000 And I proved that I deserve that shot.

01:00:36.000 As you said, I knock out...

01:00:38.000 Two of the all-time greats.

01:00:40.000 Two of the all-time greats.

01:00:44.000 To the great Wolk, who was like dominating everyone in 145 division, and Max Holloway.

01:00:52.000 Great fighters, both of them.

01:00:54.000 Especially after Max Holloway's victory over Justin Gaethje, which is like the greatest victory of his career.

01:00:58.000 Yeah. To knock him out after that?

01:01:00.000 No one did it.

01:01:01.000 Yeah. Yeah.

01:01:03.000 I agree.

01:01:04.000 I mean, I'd say world title fight, but I don't get to make the rules.

01:01:07.000 And the last fight he had...

01:01:08.000 It wasn't 155 against Justin Gaethje, who also fought for the title.

01:01:15.000 And then the other thing is there's not really a compelling challenger at 155 other than you.

01:01:21.000 If you look at it, he's kind of cleaned out the division.

01:01:24.000 There's no one else.

01:01:26.000 I mean, Armand's got to build himself back up.

01:01:28.000 He's not going to get a title shot.

01:01:30.000 I would put Justin Gaethje against Paddy Pimblitt.

01:01:34.000 Me against Islam.

01:01:37.000 Once I pass him, I get the title, and you put me against Paddy.

01:01:43.000 Because I think that he's going to...

01:01:45.000 You think Paddy's going to beat Justin Gage?

01:01:46.000 Easy. Wow.

01:01:48.000 Really easy?

01:01:49.000 Yeah, easy.

01:01:50.000 Really easy?

01:01:50.000 Yeah. Wow.

01:01:52.000 That's a crazy thing to say, because Justin Gage is a fucking animal.

01:01:57.000 Yeah, but he doesn't know how to grapple.

01:01:59.000 And Paddy knows that.

01:02:00.000 But he's a Division I wrestler.

01:02:02.000 He knows how to grapple.

01:02:03.000 You don't think he knows how to grapple?

01:02:04.000 He just chooses not to.

01:02:06.000 I don't think so.

01:02:07.000 And fight.

01:02:08.000 I don't think so.

01:02:10.000 Did you ever saw him submitting someone?

01:02:12.000 I don't believe he's ever submitted someone, but I think that's because he likes to just crush people.

01:02:17.000 He likes to bang it out and fight.

01:02:20.000 What everyone likes is to dominate people and to win as soon as possible.

01:02:24.000 If you have the ability to submit someone as soon as you can, you would do it.

01:02:31.000 I think that's your mindset.

01:02:33.000 I think Justin Gaethje's mindset is to be the most violent person alive.

01:02:37.000 Yeah. Yeah, and I think that's one of the reasons why he lost some fights early in his career because he took unnecessary chances and he fought recklessly.

01:02:45.000 Then as he adjusted later in his career, he fought more intelligently.

01:02:49.000 He took a lot of risks still, but he was more intelligent about it.

01:02:53.000 He was more intelligent about the way he approached fights.

01:02:55.000 And then he started winning and beating guys in that, you know, like where he might have like thrown himself into wars before.

01:03:03.000 Like the Michael Johnson fight was just chaos, just a war.

01:03:06.000 The first fight in the UFC just throws himself into chaos.

01:03:09.000 I remember that fight.

01:03:10.000 Yeah, chaos.

01:03:11.000 He would just try to see...

01:03:14.000 He was like Michael Chandler, but a better fighter.

01:03:17.000 You know, just more successful at it.

01:03:20.000 At a high level.

01:03:21.000 So you pick Justin Gaethje over Paddy?

01:03:24.000 I don't say that.

01:03:25.000 I do think that Michael Chandler was 38 years old with a lot of miles on him.

01:03:32.000 Although he's a fucking animal.

01:03:34.000 And how old is Justin Gaethje?

01:03:36.000 Justin's probably 35. How old is Justin?

01:03:39.000 36 turns 37 in November.

01:03:41.000 Yeah. That's when it starts to slip away.

01:03:44.000 If you're natural, everything after 35, like this is one of the most extraordinary things about Alexander Volkowski.

01:03:49.000 And I don't think that he's the type of guy that takes care of his body all the time and he's like very strict with his health.

01:03:58.000 I think he slept more at day than at night.

01:04:03.000 Oh, you think so?

01:04:04.000 Did he parties?

01:04:05.000 I think so.

01:04:07.000 I don't know.

01:04:08.000 They put the camera on him on the last pay-per-view and he looked like he was so high.

01:04:14.000 High I'm not worried about.

01:04:16.000 What I'm worried about is drunk.

01:04:18.000 Because high doesn't give you a hangover.

01:04:20.000 High doesn't kill your body.

01:04:21.000 Drunk kills your body.

01:04:22.000 If guys are in between camps getting fat and drinking, that's never a good sign.

01:04:27.000 That's a bad sign.

01:04:28.000 That's because you're not just not training, you're deteriorating your body.

01:04:34.000 If Justin Gates is just smoking a little weed, I'm not worried about that.

01:04:37.000 It's not the best for focus.

01:04:39.000 He doesn't seem to be that guy that drinks a lot.

01:04:41.000 No, I don't think so.

01:04:43.000 I don't think so.

01:04:44.000 Cocaine is the worst.

01:04:46.000 When you hear guys doing coke, that's the worst.

01:04:49.000 That's the one that deteriorates you more than anything.

01:04:51.000 I never ever saw cocaine in my life.

01:04:53.000 Me neither.

01:04:54.000 I've never done cocaine either.

01:04:55.000 When I was a kid, I had a friend whose cousin was hooked on cocaine.

01:04:59.000 I got to see it up close.

01:05:01.000 I was like, fuck that stuff.

01:05:03.000 That's a scary one for fighters, too, because the thrill of cocaine, for some reason, is exciting to people who love exciting things.

01:05:12.000 There's something about fighters who are adrenaline junkies.

01:05:14.000 They like to be pumped up.

01:05:17.000 Connor seems to enjoy it, which is one of the things that makes me think he probably won't come back.

01:05:22.000 But if he does come back, it's got to be now.

01:05:25.000 You know, again, at 36 years old now, Patty Pimblitt.

01:05:29.000 That's the fight.

01:05:31.000 That's going to be a big fight.

01:05:33.000 Big, big fight.

01:05:34.000 Yeah. But I don't even think Conor's in the drug testing pool anymore.

01:05:40.000 No? You don't think so?

01:05:41.000 I don't believe so.

01:05:42.000 I don't believe so.

01:05:44.000 See if you can Google that.

01:05:45.000 Find out if he's in the draft.

01:05:46.000 I think he pulled out of the draft.

01:05:47.000 I think he's going to come back.

01:05:48.000 You think so?

01:05:49.000 Yeah. If they give the opportunity to, I don't know, to guys like, I don't know what, 40 years old, like Arlovsky, you can have so many names that they fought at 40 years age.

01:06:04.000 Why not Conor?

01:06:06.000 I know that you won a world title fight at 155, but would you make an exception for a Conor McGregor fight at 155?

01:06:13.000 But right now?

01:06:14.000 Right now.

01:06:15.000 No. No.

01:06:16.000 No. Good for you.

01:06:18.000 Do you think it's going to be exciting if I beat Islam and then I give the chance to Connor?

01:06:24.000 No, I mean, like, right now, before Islam.

01:06:27.000 Like, if the UFC calls you up and says, I know you want a world title fight, we guarantee you a world title fight after this.

01:06:31.000 Actually, we had that talk a little bit.

01:06:33.000 Really? But, yeah, I don't know.

01:06:35.000 What was that talk?

01:06:36.000 Tell me what that talk was like.

01:06:37.000 No, no, no, no.

01:06:38.000 Come on, come on, come on.

01:06:41.000 After this one, I'm not going to get sound calls.

01:06:45.000 You know how the UFC is.

01:06:46.000 They are, like, very specific.

01:06:47.000 Don't say anything.

01:06:48.000 Right. To no one.

01:06:50.000 Well... No one's listening.

01:06:51.000 You can tell everybody.

01:06:52.000 Yeah. Only a couple of million of people is listening.

01:06:58.000 No one's going to notice.

01:07:00.000 It'll slip right by.

01:07:01.000 Yeah. If they offer me a fight against Conor right now...

01:07:05.000 We'll see.

01:07:06.000 Why not?

01:07:07.000 I wouldn't say no.

01:07:09.000 I wouldn't say no.

01:07:10.000 Just for the numbers.

01:07:11.000 You get a cut of that pay-per-view and it hits two million buys?

01:07:14.000 Yeah. Woo!

01:07:14.000 Why not?

01:07:15.000 That's the thing about Conor.

01:07:16.000 It's like, still.

01:07:18.000 Even though he might not be the best fighter in the world right now, he's the golden goose.

01:07:22.000 Of course he is.

01:07:23.000 Yeah. That's something that you can't take away from him.

01:07:26.000 Kind of amazing.

01:07:27.000 You know?

01:07:28.000 That still, he still guarantees that many eyeballs will go to see him.

01:07:33.000 You know?

01:07:33.000 It just...

01:07:34.000 That would be a great one.

01:07:36.000 But what excites me more is the fight with Paddy.

01:07:40.000 Really? Yeah, that fight excites me even more.

01:07:43.000 And if they could put that fight in Spain, in the Bernabeu Stadium.

01:07:50.000 I know that Dana doesn't like to put the events in the stadium, but that's the only stadium in the world that they can close the roof.

01:08:00.000 Oh, okay.

01:08:01.000 Yeah. And just prepare for that kind of...

01:08:04.000 How many people?

01:08:05.000 80,000.

01:08:07.000 You get 80,000 in Spain easy, too.

01:08:10.000 Yeah. If you're fighting in Spain?

01:08:12.000 No problem.

01:08:12.000 Oh, my God.

01:08:13.000 That would be insane.

01:08:14.000 I might have to go to Spain for that.

01:08:16.000 And a lot of people could travel from England to Spain.

01:08:20.000 Oh, yeah.

01:08:21.000 And that happens very often.

01:08:23.000 But if they do it in Spain, it's got to be on Spain time.

01:08:27.000 They can't do that shit that they did when Leon Edwards fought.

01:08:31.000 It has to be in Spain time, but I think that with the negotiations they are having with ESPN and I don't know which platform they are going to put the UFC events, they're going to ask for space for four or five events in Europe in the prime time.

01:08:52.000 For Europe.

01:08:53.000 Yeah, for Europe.

01:08:53.000 Listen, Europe prime time is fine because it's in the afternoon in America.

01:08:59.000 That's fine.

01:09:00.000 So the fight's at 1 o'clock in the afternoon.

01:09:03.000 People watch football games.

01:09:04.000 100 million people watch a football game.

01:09:06.000 Europe still has to be a virgin market.

01:09:09.000 You know what I mean?

01:09:10.000 Yes. You've got 500 million people in Europe.

01:09:14.000 It's more than the United States, even.

01:09:17.000 Right. And if they did it on Netflix, everybody has Netflix.

01:09:20.000 Everybody has Netflix.

01:09:22.000 That might happen.

01:09:23.000 That's why.

01:09:24.000 They're in negotiation right now.

01:09:25.000 That will be a massive one.

01:09:28.000 In Spain?

01:09:29.000 In Spain.

01:09:30.000 Against that pimple.

01:09:34.000 What happened with you two?

01:09:36.000 Because I saw the video where you guys are yelling at each other.

01:09:38.000 Was it in a hotel or something?

01:09:40.000 Yeah, he said something about Georgia.

01:09:43.000 Oh, he said something about your country?

01:09:44.000 Yeah. What did he say?

01:09:45.000 He said, like, now I understand why the Russians are bombing Georgia or something, like putting bombs in Georgia.

01:09:54.000 Whoa. Whoa.

01:09:57.000 Don't joke with that.

01:09:58.000 You can joke about me.

01:10:00.000 Say whatever you want to say about me.

01:10:02.000 Whatever. He's a mushroom.

01:10:04.000 He is this.

01:10:05.000 He is that, that, that, that.

01:10:07.000 Don't talk about war because you don't know.

01:10:10.000 How is it?

01:10:11.000 Right. That's a crazy thing to say.

01:10:13.000 Don't say that.

01:10:14.000 Yeah. So that was the beginning of it.

01:10:18.000 Just out of nowhere he said that?

01:10:20.000 He said that on Twitter.

01:10:22.000 Oh, wow.

01:10:24.000 He said that on Twitter.

01:10:25.000 Maybe he was too high, too drunk.

01:10:29.000 I don't know.

01:10:30.000 He was talking shit.

01:10:31.000 I mean, it gets people to pay attention.

01:10:33.000 He's really good at getting people to pay attention.

01:10:36.000 Yeah. He is.

01:10:37.000 He's really good at that.

01:10:38.000 I mean, he could be the next Conor McGregor star, like that kind of a star where the whole world is watching.

01:10:44.000 He has that weird personality.

01:10:45.000 Yes. Yeah, he has that.

01:10:47.000 Well, he's very disarming because people, they see...

01:10:50.000 I talked about this in the last pay-per-view.

01:10:51.000 I said it's a very sneaky trick.

01:10:53.000 Because guys like you look at you the way you carry yourself.

01:10:56.000 That's a fighter.

01:10:57.000 That guy's a dangerous motherfucker.

01:10:59.000 But when you see Paddy, he's dancing like this.

01:11:03.000 His hair is flopping around like he's in the Beatles.

01:11:05.000 He seems silly, but then he fucks people up.

01:11:08.000 And so I think people get confused.

01:11:09.000 Yeah, but he fucks people up like Michael Chandler.

01:11:13.000 Right. But when he faced a real fight, who did he face?

01:11:18.000 Well, he hasn't faced anyone that good yet, but he fucked up Michael Chandler better than Charles Oliveira did.

01:11:24.000 And Charles Oliveira, this is what I was telling you before, when you got 10 losses in your record, that's not 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, that's 10. Yeah.

01:11:37.000 When you're walking with a guy that has 10 losses, The level of confidence is completely different.

01:11:44.000 It's completely different than when you walk in with a guy that is undefeated.

01:11:48.000 He's a dangerous guy.

01:11:50.000 In the striking, in the ground game, everywhere you look at him, he's a dangerous guy.

01:11:55.000 He never takes a lose.

01:11:57.000 That's a different mentality.

01:11:58.000 You've got to have to kill him to give up.

01:12:01.000 He's not going to even give up.

01:12:02.000 You've got to have to kill him.

01:12:04.000 In the case of Charles, if he finds some adversity...

01:12:08.000 He's going to go to the ground, he's going to sit, and he's going to be waiting until you end up the fight.

01:12:17.000 This is what I think, this is what I feel, this is what I see.

01:12:19.000 That was certainly the case early in his career.

01:12:22.000 I think things changed with him when he had a child.

01:12:26.000 Then he went on that run and became a champion.

01:12:29.000 And when he beat Justin Gaethje, when he beat all those guys, he was pretty elite, man.

01:12:34.000 He was really fucking good.

01:12:36.000 When he beat Chandler, when Chandler beat him up in that first round, he came back in the second round and fucked him up.

01:12:41.000 Who? Chandler.

01:12:44.000 Yeah. I know what you're saying.

01:12:46.000 I get it.

01:12:48.000 Connor's been tested 11 times last year, 5 the year before, none this year.

01:12:53.000 Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

01:12:54.000 He was tested this year?

01:12:56.000 No. None this year.

01:12:57.000 None this year.

01:12:58.000 That's what I'm saying.

01:12:59.000 11 times last year.

01:13:00.000 Yeah, I'm not sure if he's in the testing pool anymore.

01:13:04.000 I don't know.

01:13:06.000 I don't know.

01:13:07.000 You know, I've heard no plans.

01:13:11.000 You know, the UFC would tell me.

01:13:13.000 I would say, what's going on with Conor?

01:13:15.000 And I don't even bring it up anymore.

01:13:17.000 I think with him it's going to happen, like, instantly.

01:13:20.000 If something happens.

01:13:21.000 Well, that's crazy.

01:13:22.000 I mean, if he's going to prepare, he needs, like, a real long camp.

01:13:27.000 To really get his body back to fighting shape, like real fighting shape.

01:13:31.000 And he's got to remember, you know, what happened when he came back from boxing and then fought Dustin Poirier and he wasn't properly prepared.

01:13:38.000 because if you put him against me, he needs to die and be burned again.

01:13:44.000 LAUGHTER laughter Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

01:13:50.000 Yeah. I hear you.

01:13:55.000 Yeah. When you think about, like, your division when you were the champion at 145, would he have been the fight that you would have wanted when he was in his prime at 145?

01:14:05.000 Would that be the number one fight that you would have wanted at 145?

01:14:08.000 For sure.

01:14:09.000 Yeah. For sure.

01:14:10.000 My God.

01:14:11.000 For sure.

01:14:13.000 He was a dangerous guy in 145.

01:14:15.000 He was so big.

01:14:16.000 He was big, dangerous.

01:14:18.000 Yeah. He had that knockout power.

01:14:20.000 Smart. Yeah.

01:14:22.000 Yeah. One shot, knockout power.

01:14:25.000 He had that.

01:14:27.000 Yeah, but when he would make 145, I remember that was back when the weigh-ins were literally right there.

01:14:34.000 You'd weigh a guy in, and then they would cheer in front of the crowd.

01:14:38.000 Now the weigh-ins are early, and it's a ceremonial weigh-in.

01:14:41.000 So when Conor would weigh in, he would look like death.

01:14:45.000 Death! See if you can find the video.

01:14:49.000 Of the weigh-ins with Conor McGregor versus Jose Aldo.

01:14:52.000 He looks like he was on a boat in the middle of the ocean for six months.

01:14:57.000 Like, look at him!

01:14:58.000 Look at his face!

01:15:00.000 Look at his face!

01:15:02.000 Look at that one right there with Mike Goldberg.

01:15:04.000 Click that one with Mike Goldberg.

01:15:05.000 Yeah, click on that.

01:15:07.000 My God!

01:15:09.000 Look how fucking skinny he looks!

01:15:11.000 Look at his face!

01:15:12.000 His cheekbones!

01:15:13.000 He looks like he just got out of, like, some Russian prison.

01:15:17.000 Wow. You know what I mean?

01:15:19.000 Bro, that one on the right is insane.

01:15:22.000 It's fucking insane.

01:15:23.000 Fuck with muscles.

01:15:25.000 That's insane.

01:15:25.000 I wonder how much weight he lost.

01:15:29.000 I think he walks around in 185.

01:15:34.000 So he lost 40 pounds before he fought?

01:15:36.000 That's crazy.

01:15:38.000 He fought also at the welterweight division, right?

01:15:41.000 Yes. He fought Donald Cerrone, who was really not a welterweight either.

01:15:46.000 He was a 155 pounder.

01:15:48.000 But he wanted to fight welterweight when he came back.

01:15:52.000 When they were talking about Chandler, he said he wanted to fight at middleweight.

01:15:54.000 And Chandler was like, okay.

01:15:56.000 But part of me wonders whether he was ever really going to come back.

01:16:04.000 You know what I mean?

01:16:05.000 I really think that at some point he's going to come back because I don't think that he wants to leave the sport with a defeat.

01:16:15.000 Right. That's what I don't think.

01:16:18.000 I think that he's going to come back, try to get the win, and then retire in the octagon.

01:16:23.000 Well, I'd like to see that.

01:16:25.000 I'd like to see him one more time.

01:16:27.000 It'd be good for him, too, to actually go to a real camp and stop partying.

01:16:33.000 It would be good for him, for his family, for everyone.

01:16:36.000 For everyone.

01:16:36.000 By that standpoint, he's going to stop.

01:16:38.000 He's got a lot of legal problems, too, you know?

01:16:40.000 There's a lot going on with him in Ireland.

01:16:42.000 But he's running for the president.

01:16:44.000 Well, they're talking about prosecuting him for old tweets, too.

01:16:47.000 Yeah? Yeah, Ireland is going crazy with their woke shit, with the restrictions and censorship, the same way the UK is.

01:16:56.000 It's really scary stuff.

01:16:58.000 But they're prosecuting people for tweets.

01:17:01.000 That's crazy.

01:17:02.000 Yeah, England arrested like 4,000 people last year for posting things on social media.

01:17:07.000 No way.

01:17:07.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:17:09.000 What did they say?

01:17:11.000 You don't have to say anything crazy.

01:17:13.000 You know, you could just say I don't want any more immigrants in my country and they'll fucking prosecute you.

01:17:19.000 It's really crazy.

01:17:20.000 Wow. Yeah.

01:17:22.000 That's not a freedom.

01:17:23.000 No, it's not at all.

01:17:25.000 It's totalitarian government, and it's scary because they're using it to silence people, to silence people's opinions.

01:17:35.000 Crazy. See if you can find what's going on with Conor, because there was something about Conor McGregor possibly being prosecuted for social media posts from, I believe it was 2023.

01:17:48.000 Some recent post that he had made where they were going to bring them back up and prosecute him for it.

01:17:53.000 And he had also the case with the rapids and all that.

01:17:57.000 Yeah. And I think because he wants to run for president, of course then they're going to use the law to try to stop him.

01:18:02.000 Because, look, he's very popular in Ireland and he might win.

01:18:06.000 I mean, if these people think that their country is being invaded by migrants...

01:18:10.000 I asked some people from Ireland, like, what are the odds that Conor becomes the president?

01:18:15.000 They told me, like...

01:18:17.000 Probably zero.

01:18:18.000 Conor McGregor will not face charges over social media posts made before and during the Dublin riots.

01:18:24.000 Yeah. You know what?

01:18:25.000 They said that about Trump, too.

01:18:27.000 That Trump wasn't going to win either.

01:18:29.000 Yeah? Yeah, all the fucking newspapers, everything was saying.

01:18:32.000 The chances are none.

01:18:33.000 No, but I asked the people.

01:18:34.000 I didn't ask.

01:18:35.000 I didn't read the...

01:18:36.000 Depends on who you're talking to, though.

01:18:38.000 Yeah. You know, it really depends on how he conducts himself.

01:18:42.000 To very close people to him.

01:18:42.000 Oh. To him.

01:18:44.000 Okay. Okay.

01:18:46.000 They're like, no way.

01:18:47.000 Yeah. Yeah.

01:18:48.000 Look, he should be fighting.

01:18:50.000 And he should be fighting while he can because you don't want to be 49 years old sitting back thinking if you could have just won more, could have got it together if I just stopped partying.

01:19:00.000 I really think that he's going to come back at some point, but we'll see.

01:19:03.000 There's also the problem with that shin.

01:19:05.000 You know, when a shin snaps like that, nobody really comes back from that and fights at an elite level.

01:19:11.000 He's fucked.

01:19:12.000 He's toys fact.

01:19:14.000 He's chin is fact.

01:19:15.000 He's body's fact.

01:19:17.000 With that much parties and drugs and all that, you've got to have to pay that price at some point.

01:19:22.000 Yeah. And you are paying the price with your health.

01:19:27.000 Yeah. Which is the dumbest thing you can do in your entire life.

01:19:31.000 It is.

01:19:32.000 It is.

01:19:32.000 Especially for an athlete.

01:19:34.000 Exactly. Yeah.

01:19:36.000 He also suffered a lot with the weight cuts.

01:19:39.000 That's a big damage for your body.

01:19:41.000 That's also one of the reasons why I changed the weight class because I realized that my health is the most important thing in my life.

01:19:50.000 You can have everything in this life, but if you are not healthy, you don't have anything.

01:19:55.000 Yeah, you know, when you're cutting that much water out of your body, you're essentially getting to death's door.

01:20:02.000 You're getting to death's door 24 hours before you fight.

01:20:06.000 At a world championship level, which is crazy.

01:20:09.000 You sometimes feel that you're really gonna die.

01:20:12.000 I wasn't able to sleep in 48 hours at all because I was so dehydrated.

01:20:20.000 My body was so like skinny and I wasn't dreaming with water, with food, with everything.

01:20:27.000 My social media and Reels, everything was about the food.

01:20:34.000 Everything was about food.

01:20:36.000 At that moment, you don't give a fuck about anything material.

01:20:39.000 About anything.

01:20:40.000 So tell me when you start.

01:20:42.000 So if you were going to make 145 on Saturday, what is your weight cut like?

01:20:46.000 Or on Friday, what is your weight cut like for the week?

01:20:49.000 When does it start?

01:20:50.000 And what do you weigh before it starts?

01:20:53.000 Okay, basically I start a weight cut since the first day I started the training camp.

01:20:58.000 Which is 12 weeks.

01:20:59.000 Really? Yeah.

01:21:00.000 I'm on like very strict diet and I have only one cheat meal a week.

01:21:06.000 On Saturday, on Wednesday, whenever I choose it, I have just one cheat meal.

01:21:12.000 And at the same time, you have to perform at the highest level.

01:21:16.000 You have to train as a motherfucker all the time.

01:21:18.000 And you have like 1,800 calories in your body and you burn 4,000 calories.

01:21:27.000 Wow. So you are wasting so much energy, but you aren't getting back very low.

01:21:35.000 So that fucks with your mind.

01:21:36.000 That fucks with your mind.

01:21:38.000 And you don't feel happiness.

01:21:40.000 You feel, like, stressed, depressed.

01:21:43.000 You don't find the happiness in anything.

01:21:45.000 They could bring you all the money in the world, but you don't give a fuck at that moment about anything material.

01:21:54.000 So you're doing it all through camp.

01:21:56.000 But when you get to fight week, what do you weigh at?

01:22:00.000 We do the water load.

01:22:02.000 I start on Sunday with 8 liters, and I don't have carbohydrates.

01:22:08.000 I don't have any sodium, salts, and all that.

01:22:13.000 Do you drink distilled water?

01:22:15.000 Distilled water, yeah.

01:22:17.000 Distilled? Do you know what I'm saying?

01:22:18.000 No, no, no, no.

01:22:19.000 Just normal water.

01:22:21.000 I'm not having carbohydrates, sodiums, and fibers.

01:22:26.000 You say fibers?

01:22:28.000 Fibras? Yeah, fiber.

01:22:29.000 I only have fat and proteins in very small portions.

01:22:35.000 And I drink eight liters on Sunday, then eight again on Monday, six on Thursday, Wednesday.

01:22:45.000 I drink four, I think.

01:22:47.000 And then on Thursday, I don't drink anything till Friday, till the waitings.

01:22:51.000 Really? And before the weight ends, I start the dehydration.

01:22:58.000 Like we do one session in the morning, and I have to lose almost from two to three kilos, and the rest I have to lose at night because I always like to go to the bed on weight.

01:23:15.000 I don't like to wake up in the morning and have to cut the last...

01:23:20.000 When did you start drinking wine before weigh-ins?

01:23:24.000 I did it twice in my career.

01:23:27.000 It was once in Las Vegas.

01:23:29.000 I was fighting with Damon Jackson.

01:23:33.000 And I had still six kilos or something like that.

01:23:40.000 That's a lot of weight to cut.

01:23:44.000 And the guy who was taking care of my nutrition...

01:23:48.000 He called us and he told me, drink wine.

01:23:52.000 Drink half a bottle of wine.

01:23:54.000 I'm like, you sure?

01:23:55.000 Yes, he told me.

01:23:56.000 Because if you drink a liter of wine, you're going to wake up the next day if you don't put anything else in your body with two liters less.

01:24:04.000 Dehydration. Yeah, because the alcohol is going to provocate dehydration.

01:24:12.000 I did it and it works.

01:24:15.000 And after that, I did it in my next fight.

01:24:19.000 But then I was like, I don't feel good.

01:24:22.000 I don't feel good doing this in the wake-up.

01:24:27.000 This is kind of crazy.

01:24:29.000 It's fun.

01:24:30.000 It's fun because everyone wants to, I don't know.

01:24:34.000 Everyone is almost dying that night.

01:24:37.000 I was like partying with my team.

01:24:39.000 So skinny drinking wine.

01:24:42.000 I'm like, what the fuck are we doing?

01:24:44.000 And after one day, I have to face a monster inside the octagon.

01:24:51.000 Experience in life.

01:24:52.000 And so then you weigh in.

01:24:55.000 And then what is the rehydration process like?

01:24:58.000 So I used to drink the electrolytes.

01:25:03.000 Until I don't start to pee, I don't put any food in my body.

01:25:08.000 I drink almost for three, four hours in small portions.

01:25:13.000 Right now, we are so lucky that we have the Performance Institute.

01:25:18.000 We have great nutritionists in that program that help us to do it from the right way.

01:25:25.000 So I started drinking a half liter of electrolytes, for example, let's say for...

01:25:33.000 20 minutes, I have to drink that.

01:25:35.000 I can't drink more.

01:25:37.000 Then when that 20 minutes passed, I have to drink the another bottle and like that progressively.

01:25:45.000 And so once you start to pee, then you allow yourself to eat food.

01:25:48.000 Exactly. And what kind of food are you eating?

01:25:51.000 Most likely carbohydrates.

01:25:53.000 I don't used to eat any proteins because it doesn't help you at all to...

01:26:01.000 To have a great performance inside the octagon, right?

01:26:03.000 Because the protein doesn't give you any...

01:26:07.000 How to say...

01:26:11.000 Glucosa? Glucose, yeah.

01:26:14.000 Glucose that your body needs at that time.

01:26:17.000 Everything you need, it's electrolytes and carbohydrates.

01:26:22.000 That's all you need.

01:26:23.000 Not even fibers.

01:26:25.000 Okay, so what kind of food?

01:26:26.000 Like pasta?

01:26:27.000 Yeah, pasta.

01:26:28.000 How good does that taste after all that time?

01:26:31.000 Amazing. Amazing.

01:26:33.000 You could cook the pasta for me that day.

01:26:36.000 I don't know how good you cook, but it would be amazing.

01:26:40.000 Amazing. I don't care about...

01:26:42.000 So you've gone so long without carbohydrates.

01:26:46.000 I have like almost a week and a half without carbohydrates.

01:26:51.000 And I'm struggling for 12 weeks because I have only one cheat meal.

01:26:56.000 So once I finish the cheat meal, I know that in one week, I'm not going to have another cheat meal.

01:27:03.000 So I'm going to have to eat whatever they tell me to eat.

01:27:07.000 Like I wake up, I know that I'm going to have...

01:27:09.000 Two eggs with one slice of bread and I'm gonna have to train I don't know how much in the morning and then in the afternoon I'm gonna have to train again and I'm gonna have the same food all the time and the good thing about that is that my wife she was like a very important part in my last training camp because he made my My diet more fun,

01:27:38.000 you know?

01:27:38.000 I didn't have to eat to repeat the food all the time.

01:27:41.000 Because when I was in charge of that, just imagine what I was eating.

01:27:46.000 All the time the same.

01:27:48.000 All the time the same.

01:27:49.000 Just the same boring food.

01:27:51.000 Just get through the month.

01:27:52.000 Because I didn't even have the opportunities that I have right now.

01:27:56.000 Right now, I have a chef.

01:27:59.000 I set up my home with everything.

01:28:01.000 Everything is so comfortable.

01:28:03.000 But before...

01:28:04.000 I had to cook for myself, go to the supermarket, doing everything by myself.

01:28:11.000 And it was tough.

01:28:13.000 So all the food's weighed out, all the calories are measured, everything's very systematic.

01:28:19.000 So with this extra 10 pounds, how much better do you think you'll be able to perform inside the Octagon?

01:28:26.000 Because I would imagine...

01:28:27.000 Physically, that's got to take a toll on you.

01:28:30.000 As good as your performances were, and they were spectacular, but as good as your performances were, your body could not have been operating at 100%.

01:28:37.000 100%. You are going to see me at 155 that I'm going to touch someone and I'm going to take his lights out.

01:28:46.000 I don't need to touch his chin.

01:28:48.000 I just touch his head and it will explode.

01:28:51.000 I feel so powerful at that weight class.

01:28:54.000 So stable in the ground.

01:28:57.000 Like, do you want to wrestle?

01:28:58.000 Let's wrestle.

01:28:59.000 No problem.

01:29:00.000 I have the gas tank for five days, not five rounds.

01:29:04.000 Do you think that a lot of fighters maybe diminish their potential by competing at a lower weight class for too long?

01:29:12.000 It depends.

01:29:13.000 It depends.

01:29:15.000 Some of them, yes.

01:29:17.000 Some of them, no.

01:29:18.000 Because I think there are guys fighting in 145 that They could fight at 135 because they are smaller.

01:29:28.000 Like Jose Aldo.

01:29:29.000 Like Jose Aldo.

01:29:30.000 I mean, he was one of the best ever at 145 and really looks fantastic now at 135.

01:29:34.000 Exactly. And says this is the first time at 35 in his career that he's ever taken nutrition seriously and had a dietitian.

01:29:40.000 But at the same time, he was a world champion for so long.

01:29:44.000 And one of the best.

01:29:45.000 And one of the best.

01:29:46.000 May he would cut the weight at 135 and he wouldn't succeed at this level.

01:29:52.000 Right, because he wouldn't have the energy.

01:29:54.000 But Jose Aldo was big at 145 back in the day.

01:29:57.000 He would struggle to make 145 earlier in his career, but I just think he wasn't doing it the right way, like you're doing it.

01:30:03.000 You know, I think athletes of today are much more systematic about it.

01:30:07.000 And they have more information about the nutrition.

01:30:10.000 We got more help from the Performance Institute, as I told you.

01:30:14.000 The UFC Performance Institute is incredible.

01:30:16.000 I remember when they first opened it, I was a little skeptical.

01:30:19.000 I'm like, who's going to use this?

01:30:20.000 What is the big deal?

01:30:21.000 When I went there, I was like, oh, okay.

01:30:23.000 Crazy. This is amazing.

01:30:24.000 Without them, you wouldn't see many of the fights that we have seen.

01:30:29.000 A lot of people would miss the weight.

01:30:31.000 A lot of people.

01:30:33.000 Yeah. So at 155, you're going to be able to eat more.

01:30:38.000 You're going to be able to train more.

01:30:39.000 You'll be able to recover better.

01:30:41.000 Much better.

01:30:42.000 Much better.

01:30:43.000 They're really taking care of you.

01:30:46.000 I can't wait.

01:30:47.000 I can't wait to see it.

01:30:48.000 I can't wait either.

01:30:50.000 I can't wait.

01:30:52.000 I want to fight.

01:30:53.000 Take me through what is a typical training week like for you.

01:30:58.000 How much strength and conditioning do you do?

01:31:01.000 How much do you concentrate on technique?

01:31:04.000 How much do you spar?

01:31:06.000 Outside or inside the training camp?

01:31:08.000 Let's go with outside the training camp first.

01:31:11.000 Outside the training camp, I try to develop my skills in every discipline.

01:31:15.000 I try to...

01:31:17.000 To not mix it up, I don't train MMA at all.

01:31:21.000 I do boxing classes, wrestling classes.

01:31:23.000 I try to learn every discipline separate.

01:31:27.000 Why do you do that?

01:31:28.000 Because when the training camp comes, I try to mix it up and polish everything that I have been able to learn till that moment.

01:31:39.000 You know what I mean?

01:31:40.000 Everything that worked for me in wrestling and boxing and the places where I feel comfortable, that's why.

01:31:49.000 I want to develop all the time my knowledge.

01:31:51.000 I want to get better all the time.

01:31:53.000 And I can get better if I only go and train MMA and I only drill the same things all the time.

01:31:59.000 My head is getting stuck.

01:32:03.000 I need to learn new techniques because I think that I have much more to learn in every discipline.

01:32:12.000 Like in BJJ, you never end up learning.

01:32:14.000 All the time you learn new things, you see new things, you want to try it, and it takes some time.

01:32:23.000 That technique works for you when you're rolling with someone, for example, right?

01:32:29.000 So, yeah.

01:32:30.000 One thing is what you know, and the other is what you do with what you know.

01:32:34.000 How do you know how much time to allocate to each specific discipline?

01:32:39.000 Because something like Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, it's a never-ending journey.

01:32:42.000 Like, there's so many techniques.

01:32:45.000 There's so many different combinations of things you could do to a human body when you're grappling.

01:32:51.000 So, the thing about me is, like, you have to decide what kind of style do you want to have.

01:32:58.000 Do you want to fight from the guard?

01:33:02.000 How do you say it?

01:33:03.000 Guard. Guard?

01:33:04.000 Yeah. You want to pass the guard?

01:33:06.000 Like, there are different styles, right?

01:33:07.000 Right. But at some point, I was, like, fighting all the time from the guard.

01:33:14.000 I was doing, like, the beating bolos, baby bolos, everything, because I needed to feel what the people feels when I'm passing the guard.

01:33:24.000 You know what I mean?

01:33:25.000 So the same thing with boxing, for example.

01:33:28.000 Someone has a defensive style, someone has...

01:33:32.000 Aggressive style, but from distance.

01:33:34.000 Someone needs to cut to distance and work more in the body.

01:33:39.000 So, I don't know.

01:33:41.000 It's like...

01:33:42.000 It's so difficult to explain to you.

01:33:46.000 I know what you're saying, though.

01:33:47.000 I think one of your most impressive performances was Josh Emmett.

01:33:52.000 Because Josh Emmett, he's such a powerful puncher.

01:33:55.000 He's such a dangerous puncher.

01:33:57.000 But everything he throws you...

01:33:58.000 It has murder on it.

01:34:00.000 Everything. But you just kind of slipped and moved with everything and just systematically broke him down.

01:34:06.000 But you adjusted your style for his danger.

01:34:10.000 You adjusted your style for him and just dominated the fight.

01:34:13.000 I think that was one of the most impressive performances because it showed how skillful you could be.

01:34:18.000 Where it's like, imagine if Michael Chandler fought Josh Emmett.

01:34:21.000 It would be fucking madness.

01:34:23.000 Just madness.

01:34:24.000 Two dudes just trying to murder each other.

01:34:26.000 Just fucking throwing haymakers.

01:34:28.000 But what you did was you broke down what he was doing.

01:34:32.000 You found your openings.

01:34:34.000 You started to get your timing.

01:34:35.000 You started to figure out.

01:34:37.000 You put all his movements into your computer.

01:34:39.000 And then you rolled with everything.

01:34:42.000 Everything he threw, you rolled with.

01:34:45.000 When he had big shots, you moved with them.

01:34:48.000 All his big shots were coming with the right hand.

01:34:53.000 He's the type of guy that...

01:34:55.000 And ends up every combination with the right hand.

01:34:58.000 So everything I had to do, it's all the time, I didn't have to exchange the punches with him.

01:35:05.000 I had to let him throw me all the punches, roll his right hand, and then start with my combinations.

01:35:10.000 And this is what I really did.

01:35:12.000 Like, I was hurting him with the calf kicks.

01:35:15.000 Then I was going for my combinations and long combinations all the time.

01:35:19.000 In MMA, no one works a long combination.

01:35:21.000 Combinations. No one.

01:35:22.000 They always used to do one, two, one, two, three.

01:35:25.000 But no one does one, two, three, three, four, five, six.

01:35:29.000 You know?

01:35:31.000 Like the Jai Herbert fight.

01:35:32.000 Exactly. Usually, you're getting two punches.

01:35:35.000 Everyone blocks two punches.

01:35:37.000 But after the second one, they put their hands down again.

01:35:41.000 Then is when I go again.

01:35:43.000 Like one, two, one, two, three, four, five.

01:35:45.000 Boom. You are not waiting for that.

01:35:47.000 And if I change the levels and I go in the head and the body.

01:35:51.000 Cough kicks.

01:35:51.000 I go for the takedowns.

01:35:53.000 I mix it up.

01:35:54.000 You get crazy.

01:35:56.000 It's interesting that you didn't start boxing until you were 17 because you're probably the best boxer in not just the featherweight division, but you might be the best boxer in the sport in terms of your movement and then your one-punch power.

01:36:11.000 Your one-punch power is pretty fucking crazy, which I think...

01:36:15.000 You either have or you definitely can develop it, and it definitely is dependent upon technique, but either you have power or you don't have power.

01:36:23.000 So did you always notice that, like from the very beginning when you first started training?

01:36:28.000 I always had power.

01:36:29.000 Isn't that crazy?

01:36:31.000 Yeah, it is.

01:36:31.000 It's a God-given thing.

01:36:32.000 God-given thing, 100%.

01:36:34.000 I always had that power.

01:36:36.000 I remember myself without much technique, but I was connecting the punches and putting guys to sleep in the trainings.

01:36:44.000 And I wasn't that skillful guy, but I had that power.

01:36:49.000 But you were smart enough.

01:36:50.000 See, this is the difference between a Josh Emmett approach and your approach.

01:36:54.000 You were smart enough to realize that, okay, I've got this power, but now I need to develop laser-sharp technique.

01:37:01.000 Of course.

01:37:01.000 And I have to be able to find the moment.

01:37:04.000 I don't have to just throw it and believe that I have the power.

01:37:07.000 If I connect it, I put you to sleep.

01:37:09.000 No, it's not if I. I'm going to connect you to that punch.

01:37:12.000 I'm going to work for that, and I'm going to find that specific moment to put your lights out.

01:37:18.000 And I know with everyone, even in 155, I know that I'm going to be able to find that moment where I'm going to be able to connect that one punch or two or three punches.

01:37:31.000 Because sometimes it's not only one.

01:37:33.000 I'm able to combine punches.

01:37:35.000 Sometimes you think that I'm going for your head and I'm going for my main combination.

01:37:40.000 It's to go to the body.

01:37:42.000 And I go to that with that liver shot.

01:37:46.000 And that hurts also.

01:37:47.000 Oh, yeah.

01:37:48.000 Yeah. And maybe I don't knock you out, but it takes a lot of cardio from you.

01:37:55.000 A lot of movement.

01:37:57.000 You start doubting yourself.

01:37:59.000 You're getting like, wow.

01:38:01.000 He connects me with this punch.

01:38:03.000 In the chin, I'm done.

01:38:06.000 And you're starting to doubt.

01:38:09.000 And then the doubts kill you at the end.

01:38:12.000 Yeah. It's like little by little, little by little.

01:38:14.000 Yeah. It's interesting how few guys really work the body well.

01:38:19.000 That's one thing about Jack Della Maddalena is that he's a very good body puncher, which is one of the things that I think is very interesting about this fight with Bilal Muhammad.

01:38:27.000 He's a dangerous body puncher.

01:38:29.000 He's very good at mixing up and down.

01:38:32.000 No one usually used to attack the body in the UFC.

01:38:36.000 I don't know why.

01:38:37.000 It's such a beautiful technique to go and work the body, not only the head.

01:38:43.000 Everyone goes for the head.

01:38:44.000 But there are also weaknesses in the human being's body, which is the body.

01:38:49.000 Especially with those little MMA gloves?

01:38:52.000 Everything cards.

01:38:54.000 Yeah, and you're digging, digging into that ribcage.

01:38:57.000 But it's interesting how the sport evolves.

01:39:00.000 And I think when a guy like you comes around that does mix things up so well and does have elite boxing, the next generation will also copy you.

01:39:08.000 They will copy your style.

01:39:10.000 Because think about the calf kick.

01:39:12.000 There was no calf kicks.

01:39:13.000 Forever. Forever.

01:39:15.000 I don't know when they started with the calf kicks.

01:39:17.000 Benton Henderson.

01:39:18.000 Benson Henderson.

01:39:19.000 Benson Henderson.

01:39:20.000 He was the first guy I ever saw doing.

01:39:21.000 He was doing a lot and I remember pointing it out.

01:39:24.000 He wasn't doing it as effectively where he was like crippling guys movement, but he was doing it a lot.

01:39:31.000 And then I remember when Dustin Poirier fought Jim Miller.

01:39:34.000 Jim Miller almost took him out with calf kicks.

01:39:37.000 Like, Justin Poirier's calf was destroyed in that fight.

01:39:40.000 And then, you know, Dustin Poirier became a really good calf kicker after that.

01:39:44.000 And then it became ubiquitous.

01:39:46.000 Everybody has to have a calf kick.

01:39:47.000 But it comes from Muay Thai, it comes from kickboxing, it comes from...

01:39:51.000 It sort of does, but in Muay Thai, they don't throw it very often.

01:39:55.000 It's not a common technique in kickboxing or Muay Thai, which is interesting.

01:40:00.000 It's not as common as it is in MMA.

01:40:02.000 It hurts so much.

01:40:03.000 It's like a jab.

01:40:04.000 But for the legs.

01:40:06.000 Yeah. It also cripples your movement, which is terrible because you can't punch as hard because you don't have a left leg anymore or a right leg, depending on what's forward.

01:40:13.000 And at the same time, it distracts you a lot.

01:40:17.000 Right. You know what I mean?

01:40:18.000 Because it hurts so much.

01:40:18.000 Yeah, it hurts.

01:40:19.000 It distracts you.

01:40:21.000 You don't only have to think about the hands.

01:40:23.000 You have to think also about the kicks.

01:40:25.000 Well, Izzy said that when he lost to Alex Pereira, the first fight in the UFC, he said he wasn't hurt that bad with the punches.

01:40:32.000 He said he couldn't move.

01:40:33.000 He said his leg was so destroyed.

01:40:35.000 He said my left my left leg was so compromised I couldn't move and then in the second fight when Alex when he knocked Alex out in the first round He said my leg was fucked already He's like, he was getting me again.

01:40:47.000 He's so sneaky with that calf kick.

01:40:50.000 He's got that weird style.

01:40:52.000 And he just kind of throws it out there.

01:40:54.000 And you don't even see it coming.

01:40:55.000 Because he's not twisting his hips.

01:40:58.000 And still, he hits so hard that he doesn't have to turn his body weight into it.

01:41:02.000 And he's still fucking you up.

01:41:04.000 And at the same time, he had that muscle memory.

01:41:07.000 He was like, if he starts with a calf kick, I'm gonna be fucked.

01:41:11.000 Yeah, he said that to me.

01:41:13.000 He's like, at the end of the round, I was like, oh, this motherfucker did it again.

01:41:16.000 I can't believe he got me again.

01:41:18.000 He's like, my leg was fucked.

01:41:19.000 And then he caught him with that right hand.

01:41:21.000 What's your all-time favorite fighter to watch in the UFC?

01:41:25.000 Boy, I don't think I have one.

01:41:28.000 I don't think I have one.

01:41:30.000 Top five.

01:41:32.000 You're in there.

01:41:33.000 You're in the top five.

01:41:34.000 Really? Yeah, for real.

01:41:36.000 Amos, Joe.

01:41:37.000 For real.

01:41:39.000 Yeah, definitely.

01:41:40.000 How could you not be?

01:41:42.000 You knocked out two Hall of Famers.

01:41:44.000 Two of the all-time greats.

01:41:46.000 Volkanovski and Max Holloway are all-time greats.

01:41:49.000 Two of the greatest featherweight champions.

01:41:50.000 So if you're a great featherweight champion, you're the greatest in a division that probably has, if not the most skill.

01:41:57.000 There's an argument for the most skill.

01:42:00.000 I think it's 45 and 55. I think those are the two divisions that have the most skill.

01:42:04.000 Yeah. So to be a champion at 45 or 55, you're a champion in the most skillful weight class.

01:42:11.000 Like, look at 45. So many fucking killers at 45 now.

01:42:16.000 Like, look at what John Silva just did to Bryce Mitchell.

01:42:18.000 And he wasn't even ranked.

01:42:20.000 Yeah. You know, I mean, this guy's a motherfucker, man.

01:42:22.000 You know, and these guys are coming up, and they're so goddamn good.

01:42:25.000 And Yair Rodriguez, you know, you got these guys that are so skillful.

01:42:29.000 You got so much talent.

01:42:30.000 I don't know what to tell you about Jair because I'm not a big fan of him.

01:42:34.000 Jair? Yeah.

01:42:35.000 No? How come?

01:42:35.000 No. I don't know.

01:42:37.000 I see him.

01:42:40.000 He's the type of guy that you don't even need to take him down.

01:42:43.000 He goes to the ground by himself.

01:42:46.000 I don't know.

01:42:46.000 He's very spectacular at the way he fights and the striking and the kicks he throws and all that.

01:42:54.000 I don't know.

01:42:55.000 I'm not a big fan of him.

01:42:56.000 I'm a fan of Volk.

01:42:59.000 And Max Holloway.

01:43:00.000 Actually, they were the smartest guys that I ever faced inside the Octagon.

01:43:06.000 I felt that they were smart.

01:43:08.000 They had that fight IQ.

01:43:09.000 They know how to fight.

01:43:11.000 Do you think Max Holloway made a mistake in going up to 55 and then back down to 45 again?

01:43:15.000 Because he got big when he fought.

01:43:17.000 100%. I think so, too.

01:43:19.000 100%. He looked too compromised.

01:43:22.000 He didn't look healthy at 45. He gets crazy for the title shot.

01:43:27.000 He was like, take the gold.

01:43:29.000 Yeah. I mean, I understand it.

01:43:34.000 I get it.

01:43:35.000 I understand it.

01:43:35.000 And that guy who was the 145-pound champion, he knew it would be hard to make the weight, but he felt like he could do it.

01:43:40.000 But the thing is, he gained so much muscle to get to 55 to fight Gaethje, and he did it over a long period of time where he really bulked up well.

01:43:49.000 At the same time, I don't know.

01:43:52.000 If he wouldn't try it, he would stay for life with a doubt that if I...

01:43:58.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:44:00.000 So another one is Pereira.

01:44:02.000 Just because what he's done inside the Octagon is so crazy.

01:44:05.000 Two division world champions in a short period of time.

01:44:08.000 And hadn't been fighting MMA for but three or four years.

01:44:12.000 Crazy. It was crazy.

01:44:14.000 And it's also what he does when he hits people.

01:44:16.000 Like what he did to...

01:44:18.000 Well, I mean, but it's basically what it does to everybody when he connects.

01:44:22.000 I mean, his power is just different.

01:44:25.000 What he did to Jamal Hill, one left hook, boom!

01:44:28.000 And Jamal Hill, who's good at taking a shot, all of a sudden, he's gone.

01:44:32.000 You know, he's just, there's some, Yuri Prochaska, that fight, like the second fight, it's crazy.

01:44:37.000 Crazy. It's just like, he hits you one time.

01:44:40.000 That was with the hat kick, right?

01:44:42.000 Head kick in the second round, but dropped him with a left hook.

01:44:45.000 He was basically done after the first round because it was at the buzzer.

01:44:48.000 He hit him with a left hook, and then he drops, and then the bell rings.

01:44:52.000 And then he knocks him out with a head kick in the second round.

01:44:54.000 But he's just got this crazy style that's different than anybody else's style.

01:45:02.000 He's such a specialist, such a kickboxing specialist, two-division world champion in glory, and then goes on and becomes a two-division special.

01:45:11.000 And 37, you know?

01:45:13.000 He's older.

01:45:13.000 He's an older guy, you know, to be fighting at such an elite level.

01:45:17.000 You know, Jon Jones, definitely.

01:45:20.000 Jon Jones, one of the greatest of all time.

01:45:22.000 And Jon, what do you think about him?

01:45:25.000 He's going to come back?

01:45:25.000 He's going to fight Tom?

01:45:26.000 Yes, I think he'll fight Tom.

01:45:28.000 I think he'll hang out.

01:45:29.000 You don't think so?

01:45:30.000 No? Really?

01:45:32.000 I don't think so.

01:45:33.000 How come?

01:45:36.000 For what?

01:45:37.000 For glory.

01:45:39.000 He already has the glory.

01:45:41.000 Yeah, one more glory before the lights fade.

01:45:44.000 Yeah? Yeah.

01:45:45.000 I think John's a conqueror.

01:45:47.000 He is.

01:45:48.000 I think he can't sit back.

01:45:49.000 He's the best of all time.

01:45:51.000 No one can say the opposite of that.

01:45:57.000 He's the best.

01:45:58.000 Look, the guy developed a spinning back kick at 36. Didn't have a spinning back kick his whole career.

01:46:05.000 And then all of a sudden knocks out Stipe with a spinning back kick for the heavyweight title at 36, 37 years old.

01:46:11.000 That's crazy.

01:46:12.000 And they showed me a video three days ago, four days ago.

01:46:17.000 John, before the fight with Stipe, he was practicing that kick at the day of the fight.

01:46:24.000 And he said something like, this is the kick.

01:46:27.000 I'm going to knock him out with this kick.

01:46:30.000 The guy showed me the video.

01:46:31.000 That's crazy.

01:46:32.000 Well, John's fight IQ is insane.

01:46:35.000 Insane. Insane.

01:46:36.000 Insane. Yeah.

01:46:36.000 He's a smart guy.

01:46:38.000 And did a lot of his career partying, which is even crazier.

01:46:44.000 Like, diminished his body, did coke.

01:46:46.000 Like, one of the things he said to Daniel Cormier, which is one of the coldest things anybody's ever said, he said, I beat you when I was on coke.

01:46:57.000 That's such a cold-blooded thing to say.

01:47:00.000 It's so cold-blooded.

01:47:01.000 Crazy. He's so crazy.

01:47:04.000 He was so good.

01:47:04.000 But he was so good, he was better than everybody in his division, so he didn't work hard.

01:47:09.000 But then when he has to work hard, he's fucking terrifying.

01:47:12.000 Like, when he fought Alexander Gustafson, barely trained.

01:47:15.000 They said he barely trained.

01:47:16.000 Barely was in the gym.

01:47:17.000 They were really worried about him.

01:47:19.000 Greg Jackson said they were even considering not letting him fight.

01:47:22.000 Like, you shouldn't be fighting.

01:47:23.000 You're not training.

01:47:24.000 Yeah. And then he...

01:47:25.000 Guts it out in the final rounds, wins the decision, very close fight.

01:47:29.000 Then they have a rematch.

01:47:31.000 And in the rematch, he fucking trained.

01:47:33.000 And then he just destroyed him in the rematch.

01:47:35.000 The first fight was very competitive.

01:47:37.000 Very competitive.

01:47:38.000 The second one, yeah, he dominated.

01:47:39.000 Not competitive at all.

01:47:40.000 Yeah, when Jon is focused and Jon is in shape and training, he's the greatest of all time.

01:47:46.000 I think he fights Aspinall because I think it's going to be a lot of money.

01:47:49.000 It's glory and...

01:47:51.000 Look... Aspinall's amazing.

01:47:54.000 He's unbelievable.

01:47:55.000 He's fast as fuck for a heavyweight.

01:47:58.000 He's big.

01:47:59.000 He can grapple.

01:48:00.000 Black belt in jujitsu.

01:48:01.000 He's got knockout power.

01:48:02.000 But he's never been in deep water.

01:48:05.000 Ever. I don't even know if he's gone to a second round.

01:48:08.000 I don't want to say that he doesn't have any chance because everyone has it.

01:48:14.000 One punch can change everything inside the octagon.

01:48:19.000 Of course, everyone thinks that Jon Jon is going to...

01:48:22.000 Going to get it, but you can't count him out at all to Tom Aspinah, but I don't think that he's going to come back.

01:48:29.000 Me, personally.

01:48:31.000 What is this here?

01:48:32.000 One time, Andrei Olofsky took him to the second round.

01:48:35.000 That's it.

01:48:36.000 Oh, really?

01:48:37.000 Wow. I don't even remember that.

01:48:40.000 And then he TKO'd him.

01:48:41.000 That's four years ago.

01:48:43.000 That's kind of crazy if you look at his career.

01:48:45.000 It's all one and two.

01:48:46.000 And then in Bama, he had a two-round fight.

01:48:50.000 That's great.

01:48:51.000 But it's also not great, because he doesn't have any deep-water experience.

01:48:54.000 You know, if you're fighting a guy, like, imagine if he fought Stipe when Stipe was in his prime.

01:48:59.000 Or he fought Kane.

01:49:01.000 You can't have one-round fights and expect to beat Kane Velasquez in a five-round war.

01:49:09.000 Because the chances are you're not going to catch him in the first round.

01:49:12.000 And his cardio is just like an alien.

01:49:16.000 Yeah, but at the same time...

01:49:18.000 You don't know how he's going to look at the fourth and fifth round.

01:49:21.000 He might be great.

01:49:22.000 He might be great.

01:49:24.000 Sure, he might be great, but he doesn't have that experience.

01:49:26.000 So in his head, you've got to think there's got to be, no matter how confident he is, there's got to be a couple questions.

01:49:33.000 John has no questions.

01:49:36.000 There's no questions in John Jones' head.

01:49:38.000 He's gone through five-round wars, like the Gustafson fight, five-round war, no training.

01:49:43.000 Wins. He knows that he's got what it takes.

01:49:45.000 He's got heart.

01:49:46.000 It's undeniable.

01:49:48.000 So there's no questions.

01:49:50.000 But with Aspinall, it's like, yeah, he can get everybody out of there.

01:49:53.000 He's got the confidence that he gets everybody out of there.

01:49:55.000 That's for sure.

01:49:56.000 He's got the confidence that he connects.

01:49:58.000 He's so fast and athletic for a heavyweight.

01:50:01.000 And he's a legitimate heavyweight.

01:50:03.000 Tom Aspinall's not making 205.

01:50:05.000 He's big.

01:50:06.000 He's big.

01:50:07.000 He's a big fucker.

01:50:08.000 He's big.

01:50:09.000 So for him, you know, it's...

01:50:11.000 But Jon Jones is special.

01:50:13.000 He's special.

01:50:14.000 He is special.

01:50:15.000 And he has that fight IQ.

01:50:16.000 He's not that type of guy that he walks in and, for example, I don't know, Francis Ningano.

01:50:24.000 You know that he got that one-punch power, but he doesn't have the same level of fight IQ as Jon Jones.

01:50:32.000 Right. You know what I mean?

01:50:33.000 With Jon is, like, if he feels that you are dangerous in the striking...

01:50:37.000 He's going to grab your legs, try to mow you a little bit in the ground.

01:50:41.000 Then if you go in the second round with him in the striking, you're going to be tired.

01:50:46.000 He also beats the fuck out of your knees.

01:50:48.000 That front leg side kick to the knee, the oblique kick to the knee.

01:50:51.000 He's a bad guy.

01:50:52.000 He wants to hurt you.

01:50:53.000 He's trying to fuck you up.

01:50:55.000 He doesn't care to go with the elbow, with the knee.

01:50:58.000 He wants to hurt you.

01:50:59.000 When he fought Thiago...

01:51:02.000 Tiago Santos.

01:51:03.000 At the end of that fight, Tiago needed two knee surgeries.

01:51:06.000 Both of his knees were destroyed.

01:51:08.000 And he was basically never the same fighter since.

01:51:10.000 Ever after that fight.

01:51:11.000 What happened with that guy?

01:51:12.000 I never saw him.

01:51:13.000 We fought again after that, and he left the UFC, but his knees were never the same.

01:51:18.000 He had multiple knee surgeries after that fight.

01:51:21.000 Crazy. Both of his knees got kicked out.

01:51:23.000 I mean, he was front leg side kicking the shit out of his knees.

01:51:26.000 And what about you used to train sometimes?

01:51:28.000 Sure. MMA?

01:51:29.000 Jiu-jitsu?

01:51:30.000 Mostly Jiu-jitsu.

01:51:31.000 I did Muay Thai, yeah.

01:51:33.000 But I started in Taekwondo and then I started in Jiu-jitsu.

01:51:35.000 I would love to share some training with you.

01:51:38.000 I would love to share some training with you too.

01:51:39.000 I want to see what you do, man.

01:51:40.000 I watched you grapple with Marab.

01:51:43.000 I was super impressed.

01:51:44.000 I watched the video you grapple.

01:51:46.000 I'm like, anybody that could do that to Marab?

01:51:48.000 Like, holy shit.

01:51:48.000 Because people think about you.

01:51:50.000 They're scared of your striking.

01:51:52.000 But one of the things, like, you open up a lot of people's eyes in the Ryan Hall fight.

01:51:57.000 Because Ryan Hall was this weird puzzle.

01:52:00.000 He was like this elite Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt who'd do a lot of strange things.

01:52:03.000 He would turn his back to people and do weird things.

01:52:07.000 He'll hook BJ Penn like that in the first round.

01:52:10.000 With that Imani roll.

01:52:11.000 Yeah. But when you dominated him like that, I was like, Jesus Christ.

01:52:16.000 And then you put his lights out.

01:52:17.000 I was like, wow.

01:52:19.000 Because when people see a guy who can strike like you do, they kind of forget about the ground game.

01:52:26.000 They forget that your ground game is very elite too.

01:52:29.000 Which is really interesting because you tend to put people in categories of danger.

01:52:35.000 But with you, it's all danger.

01:52:37.000 You have a very well-balanced game, which is unusual.

01:52:43.000 Like Pereira, for instance, doesn't have a balanced game.

01:52:46.000 His game is, he's going to connect and you're going to wake up.

01:52:49.000 That's all it is.

01:52:50.000 His game is kickboxing.

01:52:52.000 But your game is like, it's everything.

01:52:55.000 It's all over the place.

01:52:56.000 You know, like the Bryce Mitchell fight.

01:52:57.000 It's everywhere.

01:52:58.000 It's stand-up.

01:52:59.000 It's the ground.

01:53:00.000 It's comprehensive.

01:53:01.000 It's like George St. Pierre when he was in his prime.

01:53:03.000 It was coming from all different angles.

01:53:05.000 You never knew if he was going to take you down.

01:53:06.000 You didn't know if he was going to strike with you.

01:53:08.000 It was all...

01:53:09.000 Your mind was overwhelmed with possibilities.

01:53:12.000 Which is, in my opinion, what I like to watch.

01:53:15.000 That's what I like the most.

01:53:16.000 A guy who can do everything.

01:53:18.000 I love specialists.

01:53:19.000 I love, like, Damian Maia.

01:53:20.000 Because when Damian Maia would get...

01:53:25.000 To this day, the one fight that drives me the most crazy where a referee fucked it up was Kamaru Usman and Damian Maia.

01:53:32.000 Because in the first round, Damian Maia had Kamaru Usman's back standing up, had one leg laced, had his back, but it was taking too long and the referee separated them.

01:53:43.000 And I'm like, you motherfucker.

01:53:46.000 He's so close.

01:53:47.000 He's so close.

01:53:49.000 This is it.

01:53:50.000 Look at this shit.

01:53:52.000 Like, Kamaru Usman's in deep shit here.

01:53:54.000 He's in deep shit here.

01:53:56.000 And the referee fucking separated him.

01:54:00.000 This is crazy.

01:54:02.000 What are you doing?

01:54:02.000 This referee, this drives me nuts.

01:54:05.000 Back it up a little bit.

01:54:06.000 Back it up a little bit.

01:54:07.000 Because it's before this.

01:54:09.000 It's before this.

01:54:11.000 So, like, once he finally secures it.

01:54:14.000 Go a little bit before that.

01:54:16.000 A little bit before.

01:54:21.000 Do it right from the moment where they clinch up.

01:54:25.000 Okay, right here.

01:54:26.000 So as soon as he clinches up and he ties that leg...

01:54:30.000 As soon as he gets his hands together, Camaro's in deep shit right here.

01:54:33.000 Deep shit.

01:54:34.000 Camaro has one loss on his record, and that's by rear naked choke.

01:54:38.000 And now, he's grappling with one of the best to ever do it.

01:54:42.000 To this day, this fucks me up.

01:54:45.000 This is one of the reasons why I hate when they separate fighters.

01:54:47.000 I hate when they stand people up, and I hate when they separate fighters.

01:54:50.000 This is a huge mistake here by this referee.

01:54:54.000 Because you've got one of the greatest ground specialists of all time.

01:54:58.000 Do you think that he was the most dangerous guy in the ground?

01:55:02.000 Yes. In his prime.

01:55:04.000 In his prime, he dominated people.

01:55:07.000 He's just so close, man.

01:55:09.000 Kamaru's in real trouble here.

01:55:10.000 The way his arm is compromised behind his back, he's fucked here.

01:55:14.000 You gotta get out of this.

01:55:16.000 You can't get separated.

01:55:17.000 Just because the crowd's booing, the referee's, like, too involved.

01:55:22.000 Get the fuck out of there.

01:55:23.000 Get out of there and let him work.

01:55:25.000 Because if he gets to the ground, Kamaru might be fucked here.

01:55:29.000 And there's two minutes to work.

01:55:31.000 There's plenty of time to this day that drives me nuts.

01:55:34.000 He's doing something very interesting there with the...

01:55:37.000 With a butterfly.

01:55:38.000 Yes, with that left butterfly.

01:55:40.000 Yeah, he's constantly keeping you off base.

01:55:42.000 And you know that if you make any mistakes here, that right hook is coming over, the arm's coming over the top.

01:55:47.000 You're going to pay the price.

01:55:49.000 Yes. So as soon as he lets go of that arm, that arm that he's got trapped, that arm that he's got trapped with his left arm, as soon as Kamaru, if he gets that arm over the top of the shoulder, Kamaru's fucked, man.

01:56:02.000 This is a terrible spot to be.

01:56:04.000 And for the referee to separate them and not let him work...

01:56:07.000 I was talking to Matt Serra about it the other day, and he was like,"YES!

01:56:10.000 They fucked him!" Yeah, he fucked him.

01:56:13.000 He did.

01:56:13.000 They fucked him.

01:56:14.000 Then... Kamaru wins this fight, and then, you know...

01:56:18.000 I watched this fight.

01:56:19.000 The world changes.

01:56:20.000 It changes.

01:56:21.000 Because this could have been a loss, and then Kamaru could have been back to the drawing board.

01:56:24.000 It's a bad situation to be in with a ground...

01:56:27.000 See, look, now he has this advantage of being able to stand up again.

01:56:30.000 Like, why?

01:56:31.000 Why does he have this advantage?

01:56:33.000 You should be back where you were.

01:56:35.000 There's no reason to separate those guys.

01:56:38.000 Referee mistakes are crazy.

01:56:40.000 You know, like, there's moments in fights where referees make mistakes, where a fighter's whole career just changes, just flashes before their eyes.

01:56:53.000 The other day, also something happened in the car with Dan Eager.

01:56:58.000 Yes, yes.

01:56:59.000 I don't know why he stopped the fight.

01:57:00.000 Yes, that was a bad decision too.

01:57:03.000 That was bad as well.

01:57:04.000 Same thing.

01:57:06.000 Sean Woodson, yeah.

01:57:07.000 I think he would win the fight anyways, but he didn't have to stop the fight.

01:57:12.000 It was a bad stoppage.

01:57:13.000 It was a bad stoppage, yeah.

01:57:15.000 Yeah, there's bad stoppages, man.

01:57:17.000 I mean, it happens.

01:57:17.000 It happened to Jared Cannoneer.

01:57:19.000 Jared Cannoneer had a bad stoppage.

01:57:21.000 I guess, who was that against?

01:57:24.000 Was it Imolov?

01:57:26.000 The war stoppage?

01:57:29.000 The Robbie Lawler against Ben Askren.

01:57:31.000 Oh, yeah, that was the worst one.

01:57:33.000 That was the worst one.

01:57:34.000 They thought he was out and he wasn't out.

01:57:35.000 I was so excited for that fight.

01:57:38.000 Robbie was beating the fuck out of him, too, before that headlock.

01:57:41.000 Yeah, that was terrible.

01:57:42.000 That was a bad stoppage.

01:57:43.000 Yeah, there's been some bad stoppage.

01:57:44.000 But, you know, look, the referees have the second hardest job in the sport.

01:57:49.000 The first hardest job in the sport.

01:57:52.000 Yeah, here it is.

01:57:53.000 This is Jared Kananier and Emo Volf.

01:57:55.000 So he gets caught.

01:57:56.000 Look at that right there.

01:57:57.000 That's crazy.

01:57:58.000 That's a crazy stoppage.

01:57:59.000 He stopped the fight?

01:58:00.000 Why? Yes.

01:58:01.000 No. Yeah, look at this.

01:58:02.000 He got hurt.

01:58:03.000 He got hurt, but he's covering up.

01:58:04.000 And by the way, Jared Cannoneer can fucking take it, man.

01:58:08.000 He comes back.

01:58:09.000 Jared Cannoneer came back against Rodriguez in his last fight.

01:58:13.000 He was hurt way worse than this, and he came back to score a knockout.

01:58:17.000 But that was a crazy stoppage.

01:58:19.000 It just, you know.

01:58:21.000 Like I said, referees have the second hardest job.

01:58:24.000 Fighters have the first hardest job.

01:58:26.000 Second hardest job is being a referee.

01:58:28.000 Because those moments when you make a decision, like, ah!

01:58:31.000 You can't take it back.

01:58:33.000 The fight's over.

01:58:34.000 That's true.

01:58:35.000 It's terrible.

01:58:36.000 It's hard to be a referee.

01:58:37.000 Yeah. And then there's the judging.

01:58:40.000 Some judges.

01:58:41.000 The judging, yeah.

01:58:41.000 That's also something that drives me crazy.

01:58:45.000 It's like...

01:58:46.000 How do they keep having the same bad judges?

01:58:51.000 Come back again.

01:58:52.000 That's what's crazy.

01:58:53.000 Because the UFC has no control of the judges.

01:58:55.000 The judges are all established by the Athletic Commission.

01:58:57.000 Yeah. So sometimes you get great judging.

01:59:00.000 And it's like, oh, the judges are good tonight.

01:59:01.000 These are good decisions.

01:59:02.000 And sometimes you get, what the fuck is going on?

01:59:06.000 Yeah. Sometimes judges are horrible.

01:59:08.000 Horrible. It doesn't make any sense.

01:59:10.000 You never know if they give you more points for wrestling, for striking, for defending.

01:59:17.000 Right. It's crazy.

01:59:19.000 Some judges just aren't qualified.

01:59:21.000 They don't have a martial arts experience.

01:59:22.000 They don't have a background.

01:59:24.000 They just learned how to judge.

01:59:27.000 I don't think you can do that.

01:59:29.000 I don't speak Spanish, but if you taught me some Spanish and then I was judging Spanish, you know what I'm saying?

01:59:37.000 I'm not qualified, right?

01:59:38.000 You are not.

01:59:39.000 Right! So if you have a guy who doesn't really understand who's got the dominant position, like maybe you see a bullshit guillotine that has no chance.

01:59:47.000 It's not like they never fought.

01:59:50.000 They not even never trained.

01:59:51.000 Right, exactly.

01:59:52.000 Most of them.

01:59:53.000 I remember early on in the UFC, one of the judges...

01:59:59.000 She turned to one of the people next to this person.

02:00:03.000 It was a woman.

02:00:04.000 She turns to this person.

02:00:06.000 He goes, what is he doing?

02:00:08.000 Norway. Yeah.

02:00:09.000 Yeah, what is he doing?

02:00:11.000 Someone was trying to get a Kimura.

02:00:12.000 She's like, what is he doing?

02:00:13.000 She didn't know what a Kimura was.

02:00:15.000 So how'd they get there?

02:00:16.000 They were boxing judges.

02:00:18.000 So the boxing judges, they started using them for MMA fights with no martial arts experience at all.

02:00:25.000 Never. Never stepped on the mat.

02:00:27.000 Never put in a mouthpiece.

02:00:29.000 Never got punched in the face.

02:00:32.000 That's crazy.

02:00:33.000 They don't know how it works.

02:00:34.000 And it's their judging at a professional world championship level.

02:00:38.000 At the highest level.

02:00:39.000 It's crazy.

02:00:40.000 It's crazy.

02:00:41.000 I think they should have more judges.

02:00:42.000 Let me ask you something.

02:00:44.000 What do you think was the decay of success of the UFC?

02:00:47.000 Like, it was Dana White.

02:00:49.000 It was the matchmakers.

02:00:50.000 It was the fighters.

02:00:51.000 It was the promotion.

02:00:54.000 What it was.

02:00:55.000 I think the big thing was The Ultimate Fighter.

02:00:57.000 I think everybody kind of agrees with that.

02:00:59.000 The Ultimate Fighter reality show, what made the UFC huge was that first season of the reality show, because this was 2005.

02:01:08.000 So reality shows were really popular back then.

02:01:11.000 This is, you know, Survivor and Fear Factor.

02:01:14.000 And there's always reality shows and Big Brother.

02:01:16.000 And so they had this reality show that people are watching with fighters.

02:01:19.000 And then they have the finale.

02:01:21.000 And in the finale, Forrest Griffin fights Stefan Bonner.

02:01:24.000 And it's such a crazy fight that people are just telling their friends.

02:01:28.000 The ratings were going up as the fight went on.

02:01:33.000 You know, the Fertittas, the people that owned the UFC before this current company, they were in the hole.

02:01:39.000 $40 million.

02:01:41.000 And they just kept losing money.

02:01:43.000 And they said, listen, this is the last.

02:01:44.000 They were going to sell the UFC at one point in time.

02:01:46.000 And then they got to this point where they're like, look, let's just try this one more thing.

02:01:51.000 Let's just try this one more thing.

02:01:53.000 And they did this reality show.

02:01:56.000 And the reality show worked.

02:01:57.000 And then 2005.

02:01:58.000 And then they had Chuck Liddell.

02:01:59.000 And Chuck Liddell was the perfect poster boy for this new cage fighting thing.

02:02:04.000 This fucking maniac with a mohawk and a tattoo on his head and he's just crushing everybody.

02:02:09.000 You know, he was a perfect guy because the fights were so exciting and he had this insane style.

02:02:15.000 This insane, almost like Michael Chandler style, but better.

02:02:19.000 Very entertaining style.

02:02:19.000 Very, very entertaining.

02:02:21.000 Just warrior.

02:02:22.000 He was a good boxer.

02:02:24.000 Good striker.

02:02:25.000 Fast hands.

02:02:25.000 Yeah, fast hands.

02:02:27.000 Vicious knockout power.

02:02:28.000 And he was a wrestler, but he didn't wrestle anybody.

02:02:30.000 And he was a heavyweight.

02:02:31.000 Light heavyweight, yeah.

02:02:32.000 Big guy.

02:02:33.000 Yeah, he was a light heavyweight.

02:02:34.000 Light heavyweight.

02:02:34.000 Big guy.

02:02:35.000 KOs people with one punch.

02:02:37.000 And, you know, it was perfect for the sport.

02:02:39.000 Because, like, he was so exciting.

02:02:40.000 And he looked the part.

02:02:41.000 He was like a maniac.

02:02:42.000 And after we'd win, he'd go...

02:02:44.000 And run around the cage.

02:02:46.000 It was so exciting.

02:02:47.000 So exciting.

02:02:48.000 He was the poster boy.

02:02:49.000 He was the guy.

02:02:50.000 He was the guy that put the sport on the map because people would watch him and they'd go, Jesus.

02:02:54.000 Yeah, that timeline of MMA was so fun.

02:02:58.000 It was fun.

02:02:58.000 With Rampage Jackson also.

02:03:00.000 Oh, yeah.

02:03:00.000 And then when Rampage KO'd him, he became the man.

02:03:03.000 And then John Jones comes along.

02:03:06.000 It's like the sport.

02:03:08.000 That's what's crazy about John, right?

02:03:10.000 John has been dominant.

02:03:11.000 Now, for like, what, 15, 16 years?

02:03:15.000 Yeah. That's nuts, man.

02:03:16.000 That's why I say he's the best.

02:03:18.000 He's the GOAT.

02:03:19.000 He's the GOAT.

02:03:19.000 I don't know how they, you know, pulled him as the number one pound for pound.

02:03:23.000 He's the number one pound for pound.

02:03:24.000 You know, it's just because he doesn't fight as often as Islam.

02:03:28.000 You know, Islam's defended his title more recently, more often against top flight competition, whereas John's, you know, John takes a year off, does a year off here, a year off there.

02:03:39.000 But when you look at the overall record, the overall career, he's the greatest of all time.

02:03:43.000 But when I talk about just technique, you've got to think about Mighty Mouse too, man.

02:03:51.000 Mighty Mouse in his prime was a bad motherfucker, man.

02:03:54.000 He would do shit to guys like when he suplexed Ray Borg and caught him in an arm bar in the middle of the air and finished him.

02:04:01.000 You don't think so?

02:04:02.000 I see your face.

02:04:03.000 I see your face.

02:04:04.000 No, no, no.

02:04:04.000 It's not like...

02:04:06.000 I don't know.

02:04:08.000 I never was a big fan of him.

02:04:11.000 No? No.

02:04:13.000 Never. First of all, when you call yourself a Mickey Mouse...

02:04:18.000 Mighty Mouse.

02:04:21.000 So I always thought that he was a Mickey Mouse.

02:04:24.000 I'm like, bro, what the fuck are you calling yourself a Mickey Mouse?

02:04:28.000 No. He was a good fighter.

02:04:30.000 He was a very technical fighter.

02:04:32.000 He dominated the whole division.

02:04:33.000 How many times did he defend his belt?

02:04:35.000 Many times.

02:04:36.000 14 times?

02:04:37.000 Many times.

02:04:38.000 He fucked a lot of people up.

02:04:40.000 But then there's an issue where the quality of the competition in the 125-pound division back then was not at the level that it is now.

02:04:50.000 Like Pantoja, he's a bad motherfucker.

02:04:53.000 I would have loved to see Alexandre Pantoja versus Mighty Mouse in their prime.

02:04:57.000 Pantoja's a fucking animal, man.

02:04:59.000 That guy's a fucking animal.

02:05:01.000 There's a guy coming up in 125.

02:05:06.000 He fought in the last pay-per-view in London.

02:05:08.000 His last name is Kawana in 125.

02:05:11.000 He's going to be a pro in that division.

02:05:13.000 He's a very skillful fighter.

02:05:15.000 Well, I think like all weight classes, now you have the best fighters of all time.

02:05:21.000 Because we see guys from the Dana White Contender Series now that are coming along that enter into the UFC for their first fight.

02:05:30.000 And you see these guys like, Jesus Christ, this guy looks like he has 15 pro fights in the UFC.

02:05:34.000 They look elite.

02:05:35.000 You know?

02:05:36.000 That's a cool program also, Dana White Contender Series.

02:05:39.000 That's something cool because they have some story behind them before they get to the UFC.

02:05:45.000 And that's cool.

02:05:46.000 And actually, they make a good matchmaking also for that fight.

02:05:52.000 I prefer that.

02:05:53.000 I like to see sometimes Dana White Contender Series.

02:05:56.000 Or within some fight night.

02:05:58.000 Yeah, you get to see...

02:05:59.000 Well, that's where we found Sugar Sean O'Malley.

02:06:01.000 You get to see guys...

02:06:03.000 I prefer that to the Ultimate Fighter.

02:06:05.000 Because I don't want to watch all the in-the-house bullshit and all the games that they play.

02:06:09.000 I don't care about all that.

02:06:11.000 I don't care.

02:06:11.000 I just want to see them fight.

02:06:13.000 Not anymore.

02:06:13.000 But before it was very entertaining.

02:06:15.000 In the beginning.

02:06:16.000 Yeah, in the early days.

02:06:17.000 But, I mean, now they're on, like, season...

02:06:19.000 2000. There's been so many seasons.

02:06:22.000 I can't even keep track.

02:06:23.000 I forget who won.

02:06:25.000 There's so many seasons.

02:06:26.000 But my point is that the caliber of new guys, when they're just entering the...

02:06:33.000 Like Mauricio Rufi.

02:06:34.000 Perfect example.

02:06:35.000 You see this guy.

02:06:37.000 First fight in the UFC.

02:06:39.000 He's fucking huge.

02:06:41.000 You see this guy first fight in the UFC.

02:06:43.000 You're like, whoa.

02:06:44.000 This guy is elite already.

02:06:47.000 You know, same thing with John Silva.

02:06:48.000 Elite already.

02:06:49.000 Like, these guys, they're entering into the sport at a very...

02:06:52.000 Carlos Prates.

02:06:53.000 Same thing.

02:06:54.000 Like, right away.

02:06:55.000 Like, you're seeing, like, a very high level right away.

02:06:58.000 And I just think that because there's so many guys like you to watch, there's so many guys like, you know, Hamzat and all these people, you get to see elite talent.

02:07:11.000 So these young fighters that are coming up, they have a higher level to aspire to.

02:07:19.000 That's true.

02:07:20.000 Now the sport is growing.

02:07:23.000 The talents are better than before.

02:07:25.000 Because the sport has developed so much that right now you have so much experience.

02:07:30.000 You can learn so much about the game, even in YouTube.

02:07:34.000 You go on YouTube, you can learn everything by yourself.

02:07:36.000 I think in the future, guys like you will be everywhere.

02:07:41.000 There will be only guys like you at World Championship level.

02:07:45.000 I don't think there will be any specialists anymore.

02:07:46.000 I think there will be guys who are elite everywhere.

02:07:49.000 Everywhere. This is what I was saying all the time.

02:07:54.000 Now it's time for the new generation.

02:07:56.000 What's the new generation?

02:07:57.000 If you want to be the best, you have to be the best everywhere.

02:08:03.000 The fight takes the place.

02:08:04.000 And the ground and the wrestling and the striking, you have to be good everywhere because that's how the sport is developing right now.

02:08:12.000 Because before you were good only in wrestling, you would take people down and no problem, you could become a world champion.

02:08:23.000 But right now, so tough, so tough.

02:08:26.000 The competition all the time is higher and higher and higher.

02:08:30.000 And there's more knowledge in the sport.

02:08:33.000 Yeah, there really is.

02:08:34.000 It's very inspiring and it's very interesting because there's no other sport where you could go back and look at it from 1993 to 2025 and it's almost like a completely different sport.

02:08:48.000 The athletes are so much better than they were.

02:08:50.000 I mean, even from like 2000.

02:08:52.000 Go back to 2000 and watch the sport and then watch it today, at least in the UFC.

02:08:58.000 Changed a lot.

02:08:59.000 Changed everything.

02:09:01.000 In the production.

02:09:02.000 Oh yeah.

02:09:03.000 Everything. Changed everything.

02:09:05.000 I mean, it's so interesting because it's the one sport also that translates.

02:09:13.000 It translates to all languages.

02:09:15.000 Everybody understands it.

02:09:16.000 But UK is so special because you saw the sport growing since nothing.

02:09:21.000 And you saw so many great fights in front of you.

02:09:25.000 Yeah, I'm very lucky, man.

02:09:27.000 I feel very fortunate.

02:09:28.000 What about you?

02:09:30.000 Do you have a plan where you want to retire or you are just enjoying and you love what you're doing?

02:09:34.000 Because I think that it's a...

02:09:37.000 I don't know.

02:09:38.000 You are enjoying a lot.

02:09:39.000 Yeah, I just enjoy it.

02:09:40.000 I don't think about retiring.

02:09:42.000 No, no.

02:09:42.000 If Dana White quits, I might quit.

02:09:44.000 But that's it.

02:09:45.000 Yeah? Yeah.

02:09:46.000 It's actually my contract.

02:09:48.000 No. Yeah, if he leaves, I leave.

02:09:50.000 Yeah, so in my contract, if he leaves, I don't have to stay.

02:09:55.000 Why that?

02:09:57.000 Something personal?

02:09:57.000 I wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't for him.

02:09:59.000 Yeah? Yeah, he's my friend.

02:10:01.000 He talked me into doing it.

02:10:03.000 I mean, I started working for the UFC before him.

02:10:05.000 I started working for the UFC in 1997 when it was nothing.

02:10:09.000 Nobody was watching.

02:10:10.000 We did it at a small high school auditorium in Dothan, Alabama.

02:10:16.000 You had to take a propeller plane to get there.

02:10:19.000 Scary-ass planes.

02:10:21.000 And that was the first time Vitor fought.

02:10:24.000 Okay. I was actually training at the same gym as Vitor when Vitor made his debut.

02:10:28.000 Vitor was 19 years old.

02:10:30.000 And we were at Carlson Gracie's.

02:10:31.000 He started very young.

02:10:32.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:10:33.000 We were at Carlson Gracie's gym in Hollywood.

02:10:36.000 Hollywood, California.

02:10:36.000 That's where I was training.

02:10:37.000 Just dumb luck.

02:10:38.000 I was a white belt.

02:10:39.000 I had just started.

02:10:40.000 So how old were you when you started training or you had some relationship with the sport?

02:10:46.000 Well, jujitsu?

02:10:47.000 Well, martial arts, I started when I was 15. Well, I started when I was 14, but really seriously when I was 15. And then I competed in Taekwondo from 15 to 21. And then I kickboxed until I was 22. And then I was doing comedy at the same time.

02:11:01.000 And then I realized I was half in, half out.

02:11:03.000 Something crazy about you is when I hear you explaining some positions, I'm like, this guy has to know how to fight, how to do it.

02:11:12.000 Because the way he is explaining it...

02:11:14.000 I couldn't be able to explain it, and I'm a world champion.

02:11:18.000 I know the game, but you explain it way better than anyone else.

02:11:22.000 I think that you put ten world champions together, you're still explaining much better than all of us.

02:11:29.000 Oh, thank you.

02:11:30.000 Thank you very much.

02:11:30.000 Well, I learned how to explain it because I learned how to teach people that didn't know what was happening once it went to the ground.

02:11:37.000 Right? Because in the beginning, nobody understood the ground game.

02:11:40.000 Exactly. You know, and I'm a black belt in jujitsu, so when it goes to the ground, I can explain what's happening.

02:11:46.000 Very specific.

02:11:47.000 Well, you have to be specific, because some people don't know.

02:11:51.000 Like, sometimes I'll be watching with my wife at home.

02:11:53.000 Like, we watch a fight that I'm not calling, and she's like, what's going on?

02:11:57.000 And I'd be like, his right arm is in trouble right now.

02:11:59.000 See where his elbow is?

02:12:01.000 Now, if he can get his elbow past this point, he's fucked.

02:12:04.000 I'm like, okay, now he's fucked.

02:12:05.000 And then I would explain it.

02:12:07.000 And I would say, now what he's going to do, he's going to take his right leg, he's going to wrap it over the top.

02:12:11.000 Oh, he's got it.

02:12:12.000 Okay. He's going to cinch the left leg over the top.

02:12:13.000 That's it.

02:12:14.000 That's it.

02:12:14.000 He's fucked.

02:12:15.000 You're the best.

02:12:16.000 Yeah, but that's, it's just, I, it's,

02:12:18.000 You can't fake passion.

02:12:21.000 Either you love it or you don't love it.

02:12:23.000 And if you don't love it, you can't pretend.

02:12:25.000 It won't work.

02:12:26.000 No one's gonna believe you.

02:12:27.000 Like, if you're just a regular sports guy, say, like, you call hockey and they hire you, you're gonna learn about MMA and you're gonna call MMA.

02:12:36.000 Come on.

02:12:37.000 Come on.

02:12:38.000 You're not going to be able to do it right.

02:12:39.000 Of course.

02:12:39.000 Because you've got to do it like you like.

02:12:40.000 If I was calling hockey, I'm like, yay, this fucking puck went in the net.

02:12:44.000 Woo! I don't give a shit.

02:12:45.000 I don't give a shit if the puck goes in the net.

02:12:47.000 It doesn't mean anything to me.

02:12:48.000 But when someone gets your fucking neck and you see the guys, you got a toppy, toppy.

02:12:54.000 That to me is life.

02:12:56.000 That's everything.

02:12:57.000 That is like, it's not just winning.

02:12:59.000 You're not just winning.

02:13:00.000 You killed that guy.

02:13:02.000 We can see that.

02:13:03.000 I promise you.

02:13:04.000 We can see your passion.

02:13:05.000 Everything. Like, even right now I'm here, I feel your passion.

02:13:09.000 It's not like I said, I feel your passion.

02:13:11.000 Like, you're passionate about what you're doing, and that's something that I admire people like you.

02:13:17.000 Well, I wouldn't do it if I didn't feel that way.

02:13:19.000 I don't have to do it.

02:13:20.000 I don't do it for money.

02:13:21.000 I just do it, I mean, this is the only person I work for is the UFC.

02:13:25.000 Everything else I do for myself.

02:13:27.000 Everything I work for myself.

02:13:28.000 I'm self-employed, except for the UFC.

02:13:31.000 But I've been working for them for 20 fucking...

02:13:34.000 Three years?

02:13:35.000 Yeah. 23 years.

02:13:36.000 23 years.

02:13:37.000 Yeah. And then before that.

02:13:38.000 I did it two years before that.

02:13:39.000 So it was 25 years total.

02:13:42.000 And when was the moment, maybe I'm going too deep, but I wanted to ask you this.

02:13:47.000 When was the moment when you feel like, I'm succeeding in life?

02:13:51.000 I feel that I'm having success.

02:13:55.000 And what's for you actually success?

02:13:57.000 How do you describe it?

02:14:00.000 Well, I guess the moment was when I didn't worry about success anymore.

02:14:03.000 I don't think about success.

02:14:05.000 I think about what do I enjoy doing and am I doing it the best that I can do it?

02:14:10.000 That's what I think about.

02:14:11.000 I don't think, oh, I'm going to make more money.

02:14:14.000 Oh, I'm going to do this.

02:14:16.000 I want this goal and that goal.

02:14:18.000 I'm a process-oriented person.

02:14:22.000 I think about the process of what I'm doing and then the results come.

02:14:25.000 So I think, like, what am I doing?

02:14:28.000 Am I doing it the best that I can do it?

02:14:30.000 And if I'm not, I better.

02:14:31.000 I better either quit.

02:14:33.000 If I don't want to do it anymore.

02:14:34.000 That's why I stopped fighting.

02:14:36.000 There was no money in fighting when I was fighting.

02:14:38.000 There was no money.

02:14:39.000 There was no UFC.

02:14:40.000 And I was just getting brain damage for no reason.

02:14:43.000 I was sparring and having fucking headaches every night.

02:14:46.000 I was like, what am I doing with my life?

02:14:47.000 And then I would also meet guys in the gym that were punch drunk.

02:14:50.000 And those guys scared the shit out of me.

02:14:53.000 Because back then, everybody was stupid, too.

02:14:54.000 And this was 1989.

02:14:57.000 Everybody was stupid.

02:14:58.000 They just beat the fuck out of each other.

02:14:59.000 There was no sparring.

02:15:02.000 You know, like technical sparring.

02:15:04.000 It was just wars.

02:15:05.000 It was just fights.

02:15:06.000 Always fights.

02:15:07.000 Got you.

02:15:08.000 And there was no future.

02:15:10.000 It's still like that in some gyms.

02:15:12.000 Yeah, a lot of gyms.

02:15:13.000 A lot of gyms.

02:15:14.000 You know, some gyms are intelligent, but there's a lot of gyms that are stupid.

02:15:18.000 I don't used to spar at all.

02:15:21.000 Really? Yeah, I don't spar.

02:15:23.000 Only in training camps.

02:15:24.000 But I see you spar in training camps, so it's only in training camps.

02:15:27.000 Only in training camps.

02:15:28.000 So when you're not in camp, what do you do?

02:15:30.000 I do like...

02:15:32.000 As I told you, maybe in boxing.

02:15:35.000 Before, I used to go more crazy than now.

02:15:40.000 Before, I had more ego.

02:15:43.000 I wanted to prove myself.

02:15:45.000 I can knock you out.

02:15:46.000 I can submit you.

02:15:47.000 I can do this.

02:15:49.000 Once, you're winning fights.

02:15:53.000 You're growing as a person.

02:15:55.000 You're like, I don't need to prove anything here in the gym.

02:15:58.000 I know what I'm able to do in the competition.

02:16:02.000 It's the day when I have to fight.

02:16:04.000 That's the day when I get paid and that's it.

02:16:07.000 I'm not going to damage anyone.

02:16:11.000 No more.

02:16:12.000 Because sometimes you knock people out and then you go back home and you feel bad.

02:16:18.000 You're like, I could not doing it.

02:16:22.000 And he's suffering right now.

02:16:23.000 I sent so much people to the hospital.

02:16:26.000 So much people to the hospital.

02:16:28.000 I'm sure.

02:16:29.000 I've seen a few videos.

02:16:30.000 Rebroken. Eyes opened.

02:16:32.000 Yeah. So much damage that right now I'm like, no, no, no.

02:16:37.000 Sometimes people come to me like, let's par.

02:16:39.000 I'm like, I recommend you to no.

02:16:44.000 I recommend you to not.

02:16:48.000 Yeah, that's good advice.

02:16:49.000 Yeah. It's interesting, right?

02:16:51.000 It's like your ego can help you because your ego is what makes you want to be great, but at a certain point in time, you've got to put a leash on it.

02:17:00.000 You've got to say, not right now, motherfucker.

02:17:02.000 Not right now.

02:17:02.000 When I let you go, when I say sickum, then I'm going to let you off that leash, but not right now.

02:17:08.000 Marcelo Garcia always used to say that about jiu-jitsu, that you have to open up your game in the gym and don't be afraid of being tapped.

02:17:15.000 He goes, you've got to be open.

02:17:16.000 You've got to take chances in the gym and learn.

02:17:20.000 Put yourself in bad positions on purpose.

02:17:22.000 And you might lose training sessions, but that's not what's important.

02:17:26.000 What's important is growing.

02:17:27.000 I see a lot of guys struggling with that.

02:17:29.000 Like, they don't want to lose in training.

02:17:32.000 Well, a lot of guys never develop a guard because they never want to be on their back.

02:17:36.000 There's a lot of guys like that.

02:17:38.000 They have no fucking guard.

02:17:39.000 Which is crazy.

02:17:41.000 It's crazy.

02:17:41.000 There's black belts out there that get them on their back, they look like a turtle.

02:17:45.000 Because they don't want to lose.

02:17:46.000 Exactly. They don't know how to lose.

02:17:49.000 If you top out, no problem.

02:17:51.000 You get better.

02:17:52.000 I don't put myself in this position.

02:17:56.000 But that's the fascinating dance of the mind that allows someone to become a champion versus someone to become just a good fighter.

02:18:05.000 Like whether you can figure that out, like when to put your ego on a leash and when to be able to look at yourself objectively.

02:18:13.000 Like what you're doing with separating all of your disciplines, I think is very important.

02:18:18.000 I think that's a very interesting way that you put it because I think it's a very intelligent way to approach it.

02:18:23.000 Like get very good at your boxing, get very good at your Muay Thai, get very good at your Jiu-Jitsu, but do it separately.

02:18:30.000 Like every week, every Sunday, I sit down and I do my schedule.

02:18:35.000 By myself.

02:18:36.000 On Monday, I'm going to do boxing a day from this hour to this.

02:18:41.000 Then I'm going to do afternoon G2.

02:18:42.000 And how do you decide what you're going to do and when?

02:18:44.000 It depends on how I feel.

02:18:46.000 What I want to do.

02:18:48.000 What you want to work on.

02:18:49.000 And what I want to work on.

02:18:51.000 And what I feel like I have to develop something.

02:18:54.000 What I want to do.

02:18:57.000 What do I feel in reality?

02:18:59.000 It's not like all the time.

02:19:02.000 I'm going to do this because I have to do it.

02:19:05.000 No, I don't have to do anything.

02:19:06.000 I choose to do it because I enjoy it.

02:19:09.000 Every time I go to training, I enjoy it.

02:19:12.000 I don't do it because I feel forced.

02:19:14.000 Sometimes in training camp, yes, I feel forced because I feel tired.

02:19:17.000 I don't have food in my body.

02:19:19.000 I don't have any energy.

02:19:20.000 And I have to do it because I'm forced.

02:19:22.000 But outside the training camp, I enjoy it.

02:19:24.000 Even if I retire tomorrow, I will keep training like that.

02:19:27.000 Because that's something that I enjoy.

02:19:29.000 You said something very interesting before that.

02:19:33.000 Right now, in the moment of my life where everything I do, I do it because I enjoy it.

02:19:42.000 I don't do anything to make anyone happy.

02:19:47.000 I don't live a life dreaming to have another one.

02:19:50.000 I just enjoy the moment I'm living right now.

02:19:54.000 That's so important.

02:19:55.000 That is so important.

02:19:56.000 It's so important to be satisfied with your life.

02:19:59.000 So important to just live in the moment.

02:20:04.000 It's so hard for people to do.

02:20:07.000 It's so hard for people to do, especially if you've fucked off too many times.

02:20:10.000 You just made too many mistakes and slacked off and lazy.

02:20:16.000 This is the best moment we have right now.

02:20:18.000 Right now.

02:20:19.000 This is the best moment.

02:20:20.000 This is who we are.

02:20:21.000 Yeah, it is.

02:20:22.000 It is.

02:20:22.000 No one knows what's going to happen tomorrow.

02:20:24.000 And you know what's really important?

02:20:26.000 Hearing a guy like you say this.

02:20:27.000 Hearing a guy like you say this to young people out there that are listening.

02:20:30.000 They're just not sure how to approach life.

02:20:34.000 Because the way you think about life and the way you decide to approach life can change the whole direction of your future.

02:20:44.000 100%. 100%.

02:20:45.000 And so a young guy is probably listening.

02:20:49.000 Guaranteed there are people, not just one, many young people are listening to you talk right now.

02:20:55.000 I'm sure that many people come to you like, Joe, tell me the secret.

02:20:59.000 Yeah. There are no secret.

02:21:01.000 There's no bottom for the elevator.

02:21:03.000 Exactly. Everything in life you get step by step.

02:21:06.000 The slow is the fastest way to get where you want to be.

02:21:08.000 I was talking to David Goggins about that.

02:21:10.000 You know who David Goggins is?

02:21:12.000 Yeah, of course.

02:21:13.000 Fucking maniac.

02:21:15.000 David Goggins said, there's no finish line.

02:21:18.000 He's like, it never ends.

02:21:19.000 I'm like, it never ends.

02:21:20.000 It never ends.

02:21:20.000 You never make it.

02:21:22.000 You ever feel like you make it?

02:21:23.000 I'm like, you never make it.

02:21:23.000 There's no making it.

02:21:24.000 It's bullshit.

02:21:26.000 Of course.

02:21:26.000 One day you don't think about it anymore, and every day you're just trying to get better.

02:21:31.000 Of course.

02:21:31.000 And if you don't feel like that, it's not fun.

02:21:34.000 If you're not really...

02:21:36.000 Trying to do something difficult and aspire to greatness and just trying to do your best all the time, you don't have satisfaction in your life.

02:21:45.000 100%. In everything.

02:21:46.000 Some people think that you accomplish something and that's going to make you happy.

02:21:51.000 That's a bullshit.

02:21:52.000 Well, you know, I think also there's the poison of social media.

02:21:56.000 Because social media poisons people to think that one day I'm going to make it.

02:22:00.000 I'm going to be like Conor McGregor driving my yacht around.

02:22:03.000 Like, those videos are so bad for you.

02:22:06.000 Those videos of people like, look at me.

02:22:09.000 Look at my watch.

02:22:10.000 Look at my diamonds.

02:22:11.000 Look at this.

02:22:11.000 Look at my house.

02:22:12.000 Look at this.

02:22:13.000 Look at these girls.

02:22:14.000 Don't you wish you were me?

02:22:17.000 Everyone is showing you the best part of their life.

02:22:20.000 No one is going to show you how they are struggling, the problems they are facing on the daily basis.

02:22:26.000 I mean, no one is going to show you that.

02:22:28.000 No one is going to show you, look, I have a pimple here in my face.

02:22:31.000 No, I'm going to use a filter to hide that.

02:22:35.000 Yeah. It's not good.

02:22:37.000 It's not good for young people, that's for sure, because they aspire to all the wrong things.

02:22:41.000 You ask young people today what they want.

02:22:43.000 Most of them just want to be famous.

02:22:45.000 They want to be famous and they think that money makes them rich.

02:22:50.000 Your skills make you rich, not the money.

02:22:53.000 If you don't have the skills and you don't have the mindset, you're going to keep poor all the time.

02:22:57.000 Not only that, you're not going to have the satisfaction of knowing you got really good at something.

02:23:02.000 There's something about getting really good at something that gives you a deep satisfaction that's not available anywhere else.

02:23:08.000 If you just win the lottery, those are the most depressed people in the world.

02:23:11.000 They all go broke.

02:23:13.000 They win the lottery, and then everybody wants money from them, and then they feel empty and hollow, and they don't know what to do with themselves, and now they don't have any goals because they have $100 million in the bank.

02:23:22.000 They don't know what the fuck to do.

02:23:23.000 Yeah, but in reality, they don't have any ability.

02:23:25.000 They don't have nothing to enjoy with.

02:23:28.000 Right. I say that success comes from not worrying about money.

02:23:33.000 Success doesn't come from making a lot of money.

02:23:35.000 Success comes from...

02:23:36.000 Now I don't have to think about that.

02:23:38.000 Money is not the thing.

02:23:39.000 Now I think about, what am I doing?

02:23:41.000 What am I doing?

02:23:42.000 I want to be the best parent I can be.

02:23:44.000 I want to be the best friend that I can be.

02:23:46.000 I want to be everything I do.

02:23:48.000 I want to do it to the best of my abilities.

02:23:50.000 Becoming the best person you could be?

02:23:52.000 Yeah, the best person you could be.

02:23:54.000 When I was a kid, my martial arts instructor told me this that I'll never forget and I say it all the time.

02:23:59.000 Martial arts are a vehicle for developing your human potential.

02:24:03.000 Through that struggle, through that difficult thing, you will learn how to be better at everything.

02:24:09.000 100%. 100%.

02:24:10.000 That's what I think life is about.

02:24:14.000 And that's why martial arts are so exciting to me.

02:24:16.000 You know, people think, oh, you like violence.

02:24:18.000 It's like, that's not it.

02:24:19.000 That's why I don't like slap fighting.

02:24:21.000 I think it's stupid.

02:24:22.000 You stand in front of each other, smack each other in the head.

02:24:24.000 I want to see a guy enter into a cage fully prepared with skills against another guy fully prepared with skills.

02:24:32.000 I always describe martial arts, mixed martial arts in particular, as...

02:24:37.000 High-level problem-solving with dire physical consequences.

02:24:42.000 That's what it is.

02:24:43.000 It's problem-solving with dire physical consequences.

02:24:47.000 That's so cool.

02:24:47.000 Yeah, that's what it is.

02:24:49.000 People, most of them, they didn't understand what's behind...

02:24:53.000 A fighting game.

02:24:54.000 It's not like only violence.

02:24:56.000 You have to prepare yourself.

02:24:58.000 You have to be smart.

02:24:59.000 You have to work smarter than the other guy you're going to face.

02:25:05.000 There's so much factors that it's going to play out that day.

02:25:11.000 It's so much sacrifices that someone has to make before getting inside that octagon.

02:25:17.000 It's not only fighting.

02:25:19.000 It's more than that.

02:25:20.000 I don't know.

02:25:24.000 I love that.

02:25:26.000 Most of the people before, they used to see fighting as something very violent in Spain.

02:25:33.000 They hate it.

02:25:34.000 Right now, it's becoming bigger and bigger and bigger and they're starting to love that.

02:25:40.000 And I saw that since the day I started because I used to say to the people like 10 years ago in Spain, what are you doing?

02:25:47.000 I'm fighting.

02:25:48.000 Ah, don't do that.

02:25:51.000 Start learning something.

02:25:52.000 Start studying.

02:25:53.000 I'm like, I'm studying.

02:25:56.000 Everyone chooses a career in his life.

02:25:59.000 Someone wants to be a doctor.

02:26:00.000 Someone wants to be a constructor.

02:26:03.000 Someone wants to be this or that.

02:26:04.000 I want to be a fighter.

02:26:07.000 And I have to learn to be a fighter also.

02:26:09.000 But by your example, by being a true champion, and by living the way you live, and by performing the way you perform, you will change people's opinions.

02:26:20.000 And they will see it and they will say, oh, this is different.

02:26:23.000 This is not what I thought it was.

02:26:25.000 This is something special.

02:26:26.000 I hope so.

02:26:27.000 For sure, brother.

02:26:28.000 For sure.

02:26:29.000 It's in the cards.

02:26:30.000 Well, listen, my friend.

02:26:31.000 Thank you very much for being here.

02:26:33.000 I appreciate you very much.

02:26:34.000 I'm a big fan.

02:26:35.000 And I can't wait to see you inside the Octagon again.

02:26:37.000 And all the best.

02:26:39.000 Joe, thank you very much, brother.

02:26:40.000 It's been a big pleasure for me to be here.

02:26:42.000 Thanks very much.

02:26:44.000 All right.

02:26:44.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - April 16, 2025

JRE MMA Show #166 with Ilia Topuria

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