The Joe Rogan Experience - January 21, 2026


JRE MMA Show #173 with Benny "The Jet" Urquidez & William "Blinky" Rodriguez

Topics
no submission judo fights shin guards calf kick PKA karate promoters business UFC jiu-jitsu martial arts competition sparring gambling in Thai Muay fights kickboxing promotion warrior code in martial arts Gene LaBelle strength and conditioning eye pokes eye injuries in MMA martial arts honor system jet center wars martial arts George St. Pierre forgiveness elite young fighters of today martial arts drawing gym
Hosted by
Joe Rogan
Mentioned
Muay Thai Blinky Rodriguez Gene LaBelle Muhammad Ali Bill Superfoot Wallace Dennis Alexio Lily Benny Urquidez Bobby Chacon Tony Inoki Carl Gotch Jean Yves Terrio Alex Garcia Bruce Lee Stan J. Stego Teofilo Stevenson Chris Martinson Blink Stan Longinitas John A. Macdonald and 71 more
Joe Rogan Experience #2441 - Paul Rosolie Joe Rogan Experience #2442 - Ehsan Ahmad

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 59 minutes

Words per minute

177.87

Word count

21,175

Sentence count

2,160

Harmful content

Misogyny

40

sentences flagged

Toxicity

88

sentences flagged

Hate speech

24

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, I sit down with a man who is a pioneer in the kickboxing and martial arts community. He is a man of many talents, but I think the most important thing to remember about him is that he is a father, a husband, a grandfather, a father-in-law, a brother, a son, a friend, and a husband. He has been through a lot in his life, and I think it's important for people to recognize him as one of the pioneers of the martial arts scene.

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Joe Rogan Experience" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:12.000 Gentlemen, what's happening?
00:00:16.000 Where do we begin?
00:00:16.000 Where do you begin?
00:00:18.000 Let me tell you, when I first came to Los Angeles in 1994, there was two places that I had to go.
00:00:23.000 One of them was the comedy store, and the other one was the Jet Center.
00:00:27.000 And I started training at the Jet Center in 94 before you guys shut down because you had the earthquake and you had the roof damage.
00:00:33.000 So I was there before that happened, and I took your classes.
00:00:37.000 I took your kickboxing classes because I remember it was very scary because you had a bunch of gang members in there.
00:00:42.000 Because you were doing that sort of outreach program where you're helping young gang members.
00:00:46.000 So I had a spar with gang members.
00:00:48.000 So I was training at the Jet Center until it shut down.
00:00:51.000 And then I went briefly when you guys reopened in North Hollywood.
00:00:54.000 I went to that place for a little bit too.
00:00:56.000 Yeah.
00:00:57.000 But then I started training at Majiro Gym, which is in the valley.
00:01:02.000 Legends.
00:01:03.000 You guys are legends, man.
00:01:04.000 Well, thank you, Joe.
00:01:05.000 True pioneers in martial arts.
00:01:07.000 For you to remember really humbled me.
00:01:11.000 You remembered, you mentioned my son and why I was starting that.
00:01:17.000 And you don't even know what it's grown into since that day that you've seen me.
00:01:17.000 Yes.
00:01:22.000 Well, tell the story about your son and how that whole thing started.
00:01:25.000 Well, you know, unfortunately in some communities, drive-bys aren't uncommon.
00:01:32.000 And so when it becomes a generational curse, you know, and kids are getting killed sometimes randomly, that happened to me.
00:01:42.000 It came knocking on my door in a valley that's got two million people.
00:01:47.000 It knocked on my door, and I was just, I was, I'm going to put it this way, I had a calling on my life to do something about it because it became a situation where families and community was like, well, yeah, well, that's what happens in our community.
00:02:05.000 And I was saying, that is not what happens in our community.
00:02:09.000 This is our community.
00:02:11.000 And so I began to move.
00:02:12.000 I began to move, ironically, with some churches that had that kind of ministry in their ministry and peace marches, etc.
00:02:25.000 But my son got shot while he was learning how to drive a stick shift.
00:02:29.000 Wow.
00:02:30.000 And it took his life.
00:02:32.000 And that's not normal.
00:02:34.000 And that should not be common.
00:02:37.000 And so I'm still at it.
00:02:40.000 You're still doing that.
00:02:41.000 Still going 36 years later, put an organization together and some with real lived experience, others with degrees, and really put together a whole nonprofit that speaks directly to it where it's at.
00:02:56.000 And so at the end of the day, yeah, it's over when we say it's over.
00:03:04.000 You know what I mean?
00:03:06.000 And ironically, what led the charge for me, at least, Joe, was forgiveness.
00:03:16.000 The forgiveness that only God can give.
00:03:18.000 I got to tell it the way it is.
00:03:21.000 And that forgiveness ended up taking me to the neighborhood that killed my son.
00:03:28.000 And we had a huge meeting in that neighborhood in the park.
00:03:34.000 And a peace treaty kicked into place.
00:03:37.000 No mother's crying, no baby's dying.
00:03:40.000 So to this day, I still continue to press in with a whole different, how would I say, integrated service delivery, but keeping violence in the middle of it and dealing with it.
00:03:54.000 That's awesome.
00:03:55.000 But yeah.
00:03:56.000 And it's awesome that you brought them to a place like the Jet Center where they can learn discipline, learn how to fight, build real confidence, learn real martial arts skills, and also real martial arts mentality, especially when it's coming from guys like you.
00:04:11.000 I mean, I remember when you knocked out Jean Yves Terrio. 0.99
00:04:14.000 Jean Yves Terrio was the fucking man. 0.99
00:04:17.000 He was the man. 1.00
00:04:18.000 Everybody was terrified of that guy.
00:04:20.000 And I believe you knocked him out of the left hook.
00:04:21.000 Is that correct?
00:04:22.000 Right leg, left hook.
00:04:24.000 The combo.
00:04:24.000 Yeah.
00:04:25.000 Them old traditional shoulder con sweeps.
00:04:28.000 You turn it over with the instip, and you know what I'm talking about.
00:04:28.000 Yeah.
00:04:31.000 And you reset and come back with the money.
00:04:31.000 Yes, sir.
00:04:33.000 Yeah.
00:04:34.000 But it was, and he's a bad dude.
00:04:36.000 He went on to have a great career.
00:04:38.000 Yeah, I mean, he's one of the all-time greats in kickboxing.
00:04:38.000 Amazing career.
00:04:42.000 No doubt.
00:04:43.000 And, you know, it's just, I think it's important for people to recognize the real pioneers.
00:04:51.000 And Benny, you were a real pioneer.
00:04:53.000 I mean, there was no one like you when you emerged.
00:04:57.000 When you emerged in the kickboxing scene, the karate scene, there was no one like you.
00:05:01.000 And, you know, you went undefeated and you took on people of all sizes.
00:05:06.000 And to this day, there's amazing highlights of you on the internet that people still bring up.
00:05:11.000 Because, you know, you were, I mean, you were fighting ties when you had no training like that.
00:05:16.000 You know, you were getting low-kicked by those dudes and still found out a way to win.
00:05:20.000 It's pretty crazy.
00:05:22.000 Well, you know, I tell you, it was when my brother asked me, would you want to fight Ty?
00:05:29.000 You know, and I said, what's Thai?
00:05:31.000 He said, Muay Thai.
00:05:32.000 And I said, I'll fight him.
00:05:34.000 Honestly, I thought that was his name.
00:05:36.000 I had no idea what Muay Thai was at the time.
00:05:40.000 And so we took it on.
00:05:44.000 Where was the first Muay Thai fight that you had?
00:05:46.000 Matter of fact, it was at the Olympic Auditorium when we first fought.
00:05:51.000 And Ernest Hart, yes.
00:05:53.000 Ernest Hart fought the first Thai champion, and that was the main event.
00:05:58.000 And I tell you what, when I first got kicked in the legs, my eyes bulged out of my forehead.
00:06:06.000 I said, I mean, I have strong legs, but I've never had anybody try to break my legs.
00:06:13.000 And so it was a rude awakening, but it was the best thing that ever happened to me because he took me to the streets.
00:06:21.000 He really did.
00:06:21.000 Because when he started abling, kneeing to my face, and I said, oh, you want to fight that way?
00:06:27.000 Okay.
00:06:28.000 I didn't understand it.
00:06:30.000 I just thought that, all right, this is the first time.
00:06:32.000 Did you know what the rules were?
00:06:33.000 No.
00:06:34.000 Oh, that's crazy.
00:06:36.000 So you didn't know they were going to use elbows or knees?
00:06:39.000 That is crazy.
00:06:39.000 No.
00:06:42.000 All I knew is Muay Thai.
00:06:46.000 Narong Noi.
00:06:48.000 Narong Noi was the guy that he fought that night.
00:06:52.000 Yeah, he was a great champion as well.
00:06:53.000 Oh, without a doubt.
00:06:55.000 That's so crazy that you didn't even know what you were in for.
00:06:59.000 Like, who was the promoter that set that up?
00:07:02.000 You know, actually, believe it or not, my brother, Arnold, was asked, you know, he says, he was calling me the world champion because in 73 it was called Full Contact Karate.
00:07:14.000 And Blinky and I, you know, we went to Hawaii and no rules, no weight divisions, no nothing.
00:07:19.000 So for the.
00:07:20.000 How much did you weigh back then?
00:07:22.000 145.
00:07:23.000 Wow.
00:07:24.000 And so I ended up beating actually.
00:07:26.000 160.
00:07:28.000 And Blinky, there were four of us left after we fought five, six times on Friday.
00:07:34.000 And then we fought a couple of more times on Sunday.
00:07:38.000 You fought two days?
00:07:40.000 There was that many, no rule.
00:07:40.000 Yeah.
00:07:42.000 It was just weight division.
00:07:43.000 I mean, there was no weight difference.
00:07:44.000 It was just brackets.
00:07:46.000 That's it.
00:07:47.000 So Blinky ended up fighting.
00:07:50.000 There were four of us.
00:07:51.000 I fought Bernice White.
00:07:54.000 And I told Blinky, I said, you know what?
00:07:56.000 This guy, now he's, you know, he's 245 pounds, Dana Goodson, 6'3.
00:08:03.000 And I said, Blinky, they don't want to see you and I fight.
00:08:09.000 They want to see David and Goliath.
00:08:10.000 They want to see me fight him.
00:08:12.000 And I said, so if you don't knock him out, you're not going to win.
00:08:16.000 Because this guy, they're kind of, you know, wanting to keep him up.
00:08:21.000 And sure enough, and I said, Blinky, if you don't knock him out, you don't hurt him for me.
00:08:30.000 Because I knew I was going to fight him next.
00:08:34.000 That's what it was.
00:08:36.000 So he was 240 pounds?
00:08:38.000 Yeah.
00:08:39.000 245 pounds.
00:08:40.000 And you were 145.
00:08:41.000 Yeah.
00:08:42.000 Wow.
00:08:43.000 You could pick him up and throw him around.
00:08:45.000 So I got him tired.
00:08:48.000 So what were the rules?
00:08:50.000 There was no rules at all.
00:08:51.000 No rules.
00:08:51.000 So could you stomp on the ground?
00:08:53.000 Could you soccer kick?
00:08:54.000 Could you do all that?
00:08:55.000 There was no rules.
00:08:56.000 I actually threw him.
00:08:59.000 I pinned him on the ground.
00:09:01.000 He started to roll me over.
00:09:02.000 I spit my mouth beside him. 0.97
00:09:03.000 I bit him on the chest. 0.97
00:09:05.000 Oh, my God. 0.98
00:09:06.000 He pumped striked my face.
00:09:08.000 And we got up.
00:09:09.000 And my teeth mark was on his chest.
00:09:11.000 He said, you bit me.
00:09:12.000 And I said, I was getting tired.
00:09:17.000 So did they have submissions?
00:09:20.000 Did anybody know submissions back then?
00:09:22.000 No.
00:09:23.000 Well, you know what?
00:09:25.000 We, in judo, we're black belts and judo man.
00:09:30.000 Back in 1960, we were already doing judo and Blink and I were already boxing back then.
00:09:36.000 So we had a good idea of the contact.
00:09:39.000 It's just there was no rules at the time.
00:09:41.000 No rules, no weight divisions.
00:09:43.000 It was just elimination.
00:09:45.000 So that happened for almost two years, from 73 to 75.
00:09:52.000 And then it started, that's when I first heard of Muay Thai.
00:09:57.000 Are there any of those no rules fights available on video?
00:10:00.000 Can people watch any of those fights?
00:10:02.000 Absolutely.
00:10:02.000 Are they online?
00:10:03.000 No.
00:10:04.000 Where are they?
00:10:05.000 Actually, there's some, but you know what?
00:10:08.000 Actually, I'm doing a documentary, and we're bringing a lot of, I have filmed from 69 to 96.
00:10:18.000 Two millimeter miller.
00:10:20.000 I'm talking about Beta Man, and they're actually putting together old fights.
00:10:25.000 So you'll see Blink and I, way back then, fighting black and white.
00:10:32.000 And then they started.
00:10:33.000 So there's some available online that are.
00:10:35.000 So this is you against, how do you say that guy's name?
00:10:39.000 Kayat Bandit, Nagaroni Kayat Bandit.
00:10:42.000 So is this another Muay Thai guy?
00:10:44.000 Yes.
00:10:44.000 Yes.
00:10:46.000 So was this after you had fought Muay Thai already previously?
00:10:49.000 Yes, because I started to recognize what it was about.
00:10:55.000 So how many Muay Thai fights had you had before you fought this guy?
00:10:58.000 Two.
00:10:59.000 Two.
00:11:00.000 So when you trained in this, like when, so after the first fight, did you bring in a Muay Thai guy to train with and explain you elbows and show you how they're throwing their techniques?
00:11:10.000 Or how did you learn how to deal with these guys?
00:11:13.000 Basically, somebody had black and white was filming.
00:11:18.000 And I kind of looked at it and I went to an old gentleman that used to actually do clothing and shoes and so forth in this leather shop.
00:11:30.000 And I asked him, I said, I want to protect my shins. 0.98
00:11:34.000 You're an older man.
00:11:35.000 And I said, I want to protect my shins. 0.73
00:11:37.000 You have something.
00:11:39.000 And he brought out some pads.
00:11:40.000 And I said, yeah.
00:11:41.000 And I told him I wanted to put it around my shins.
00:11:45.000 So I created the first shin guards.
00:11:49.000 You were the guy who invented the shin guard?
00:11:51.000 Oh, that's great.
00:11:51.000 Yeah.
00:11:52.000 And I told him, how do we keep it together?
00:11:54.000 And he said, and he's the one that brought out the Velcro.
00:11:58.000 Ah.
00:11:59.000 And so he put on, he sold on Velcro on it.
00:12:03.000 And so I ended up asking him, can you make more of them?
00:12:07.000 And I started giving to it.
00:12:08.000 That's how, because we were doing leg checking, because we were watching them, but it was hurting us.
00:12:15.000 Like, what the heck?
00:12:17.000 You know, how did they do it?
00:12:17.000 Yeah.
00:12:19.000 So you guys were doing a bear shin.
00:12:21.000 Yeah.
00:12:21.000 So bear shin, leg kicking, training hard.
00:12:23.000 Yeah.
00:12:24.000 We didn't know any other way.
00:12:26.000 So what were the Thais doing back then?
00:12:28.000 How were they protecting their shins? 1.00
00:12:30.000 They have spray, numbing spray.
00:12:30.000 Well, you know what?
00:12:33.000 They were spraying their shins. 0.72
00:12:34.000 Like lighter canes.
00:12:35.000 Yeah, and they were putting stuff that kind of like they couldn't feel it.
00:12:40.000 They couldn't feel the impact.
00:12:44.000 So after you invented shin guards, is that how shin guards made their way to Thailand?
00:12:49.000 I put it this way.
00:12:51.000 When I went to Thailand to work with some of the Thais, I looked at them, I said, oh, they're finally, because they didn't have them. 1.00
00:12:59.000 I said, oh, you got shin guards here.
00:13:01.000 And I was surprised.
00:13:03.000 But a lot of them didn't even use them still.
00:13:05.000 And some of these high up in the hills, the way they train, they didn't train with shin guards.
00:13:12.000 They just sprayed their shins.
00:13:14.000 Oh, my God. 0.99
00:13:15.000 Kick banana trees.
00:13:17.000 Yeah.
00:13:18.000 I've seen that.
00:13:19.000 I've seen Bulkao kicking banana tree and cutting it in half.
00:13:23.000 Yeah.
00:13:23.000 See, the problem with that is I was talking to Blinky.
00:13:27.000 I said, you know, we got a lot of nerves on our shins.
00:13:32.000 And I said, and so we had a doctor that was one of our students.
00:13:37.000 And I asked him about that.
00:13:38.000 And he says, once you break, you know, you tear all the tissues and the nerves of your shin.
00:13:45.000 He said, later on, it will affect you.
00:13:47.000 This is the reason why I started designing.
00:13:51.000 So we can, and I mean, these were like homemade shin guards.
00:13:57.000 So did you ever work out with a Thai man, like a Muay Thai fighter who was showing you how they do the techniques, or did you only learn it from film?
00:14:07.000 I only learned from the film.
00:14:09.000 Wow.
00:14:10.000 Was there any Thai guys in LA at that time?
00:14:13.000 Wow.
00:14:13.000 No.
00:14:15.000 At that time, there was none.
00:14:17.000 When was the first Muay Thai gym started opening up in LA?
00:14:20.000 Wow.
00:14:21.000 It's hard to remember because we weren't tracking with them.
00:14:24.000 We were just figuring out how to fight them and give them like lateral movement because everything was linear.
00:14:30.000 Everything was linear.
00:14:30.000 Right.
00:14:31.000 So the American side of kickboxing.
00:14:35.000 Obviously, you had more hands, but they would clinch. 0.99
00:14:39.000 Once they clinched, they nullify that.
00:14:42.000 So we were just making adjustments along the way.
00:14:45.000 Especially in Japan.
00:14:46.000 This is basically when we really started.
00:14:49.000 Because they started bringing us back there one right after another.
00:14:53.000 They started bringing us back there.
00:14:55.000 After, you know, I took their belt, and they couldn't believe American just went in there and took their belt from them.
00:15:04.000 And they didn't like it.
00:15:06.000 They didn't want it.
00:15:07.000 And they kept having us come back, taking that, trying to take that belt back.
00:15:12.000 In Japan.
00:15:13.000 In Japan.
00:15:14.000 Never happened.
00:15:15.000 Wow.
00:15:16.000 And you got to realize, like back then, this is like post-Bruce Lee movies.
00:15:21.000 So martial arts had exploded.
00:15:23.000 Karate exploded worldwide.
00:15:25.000 Everybody wanted to learn martial arts.
00:15:27.000 And Japan was kind of at the forefront of the kickboxing movement, right?
00:15:31.000 Because they had had a bunch of Muay Thai guys fight Japanese guys.
00:15:35.000 And the karate guys lost to the Muay Thai guys.
00:15:38.000 And then they had to adjust.
00:15:39.000 And then they got rid of elbows and created kickboxing because they wanted more excitement.
00:15:45.000 They wanted to get rid of the clinch and get rid of the elbows. 0.98
00:15:48.000 And then K1 was formed out of that.
00:15:51.000 That's right.
00:15:51.000 It's like you're like really like patient zero.
00:15:55.000 Like, you know what I'm saying?
00:15:57.000 Like, the real mixed martial arts movement really began with you guys.
00:16:01.000 True.
00:16:04.000 You know, I was going to say, you know, there was a phase there, because you mentioned Chuck Norris earlier, that he raised some money in Detroit, and he had done Into the Dragon.
00:16:14.000 So he had that notoriety, and he had a cattle call.
00:16:18.000 So fighters came from all over Southern Cal to his dojo in Santa Monica, and it was single eliminations to the knockout to see which five guys would represent LA.
00:16:29.000 And the same was going on in New York, the New York Dragons, Detroit, the Detroit Dragons, D.C., the D.C. Dynamos, and then the Texas Gladiators.
00:16:41.000 Those were the teams people were vying for.
00:16:44.000 And we participated.
00:16:46.000 I ended up becoming the middleweight starter.
00:16:48.000 Benny was the lightweight.
00:16:50.000 And then Steve Sanders, who was the old name in traditional karate, three of his guys from the Black Karate Federation, Ernest Madman Russell, Danny Ferguson, Sugar Bear, we were the LA team.
00:17:02.000 And what's crazy is that you won as a team.
00:17:05.000 If you went out there and knocked the guy out or you got knocked out, they got 25 points.
00:17:12.000 And so it was an accumulation of points that you would get $1,500, but the losers got $700.
00:17:22.000 So that took off, and the last tournament or fight show that they had was in Detroit.
00:17:31.000 And after that, that's when things started going another direction.
00:17:35.000 But it's just interesting the way that it evolved.
00:17:39.000 Have you ever heard of the PKA?
00:17:41.000 Okay.
00:17:41.000 Yes, sure.
00:17:42.000 So the PKA started with Don Quine and Judy Quinn.
00:17:46.000 But only that was from the waist up.
00:17:49.000 Right. 0.60
00:17:50.000 And only because they were protecting Bill because he didn't like getting kicked in the legs.
00:17:54.000 Superfoot.
00:17:55.000 No walls.
00:17:55.000 Yeah, exactly.
00:17:56.000 Yeah.
00:17:57.000 And so in this.
00:17:58.000 So that's why they decided not to have the legs kicked.
00:18:01.000 Because Bill only had one good knee, right?
00:18:03.000 He had one knee that was messed up, which is why he only threw like left kicks.
00:18:06.000 I said, that front leg.
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00:18:42.000 Yeah, but that front leg was nasty, though. 1.00
00:18:44.000 Yeah, it was just predicated upon that.
00:18:46.000 But they just waist down. 0.93
00:18:48.000 See, the fight with Johnny Veterio, he was, you know, waist down, no kicks.
00:18:54.000 But there was a sanction by the WK that allowed leg kicks, leg sweeps. 1.00
00:19:00.000 And that's how I was able to set them up with that.
00:19:03.000 But at the end of the day, I mean, yeah, I mean.
00:19:07.000 So when you said leg sweeps, you were allowed to kick below the knee?
00:19:10.000 Yes.
00:19:11.000 Interesting. 0.94
00:19:12.000 You could kick, and I would set them up with the kick between the ankle and the calf.
00:19:16.000 Well, what's interesting now is like that is one of the primary weapons of MMA now, is the calf kick.
00:19:21.000 It's interesting, right?
00:19:23.000 Like, because people kind of slept on the calf kick for a long time.
00:19:27.000 Well, people that are dancers, they like to dance in the ring.
00:19:31.000 You went for the calf and they were flat-footed and they couldn't dance no more.
00:19:35.000 Yeah.
00:19:36.000 So you want to stop somebody that was dancing, you go right for the calf and they become flat-footed.
00:19:41.000 But if you had some people that had good right hands, you kick them in the thighs, they couldn't lean on that front leg to hit with the right cross.
00:19:50.000 So there was a really method of combat, of warriorship in there that we developed over the years that we knew how to take power from our opponent.
00:20:03.000 It's just crazy that it took so long for MMA to recognize the potency of the calf kick.
00:20:09.000 Because, you know, I talked to Daniel Cormier, who was a two-division world champion.
00:20:14.000 I talked to Michael Bisping.
00:20:15.000 Michael Bisping became a middleweight world champion, never got calf kicked his entire career because the calf kick kind of emerged after he became a champion.
00:20:24.000 Now, what's really interesting is what's happening right now.
00:20:27.000 So in kickboxing and in Muay Thai, people thought, oh, the calf kick doesn't work there because the Thais know how to block it. 1.00
00:20:35.000 Well, the Japanese fighters, the Kyokushin guys, are now dominating some of the Thai guys because they kick calves. 0.98
00:20:43.000 There's this bad motherfucker from Japan named Yuki Yoza. 1.00
00:20:47.000 And you know who he is? 0.99
00:20:48.000 That dude is lighting these people on fire because he's constant combinations and chopping at the calves and chopping from the inside and the outside with every combination.
00:20:58.000 He needs crippling Thais to the point where they can't move and they're getting beat up and knocked out. 1.00
00:21:04.000 There's another guy, Masaki Nori, and he's doing the same thing.
00:21:08.000 And he just beat Tawenchai, who's like one of the best Thai guys.
00:21:11.000 And the way he beat him was brutalizing his calves.
00:21:14.000 Just kicking the inside of the calf, the outside of the calf, stopped all the movement, and then caught him with a left hook. 0.91
00:21:20.000 Yeah.
00:21:21.000 And that's why, for me, at least, going into that fight with Bill Wallace, it was like, if you're not kicking calf thigh, body and head, it's not international.
00:21:31.000 Right.
00:21:31.000 Because everywhere else in the world, that's what they're doing.
00:21:33.000 Because you guys had already experienced that.
00:21:35.000 Whereas a lot of the karate guys, they hadn't experienced it.
00:21:39.000 So the fight with Bill and I was the first live broadcast on CBS Sports Spectacular to air.
00:21:46.000 Wow.
00:21:47.000 Yeah.
00:21:47.000 So, and the irony, you know, and it is what it is.
00:21:50.000 Look at, I get it.
00:21:52.000 I think any fighter, any champion, just a fighter, period, rather, you know, get knocked out than get robbed.
00:22:01.000 Right.
00:22:02.000 Knock me out.
00:22:03.000 You know, you can do it.
00:22:04.000 More power to you.
00:22:06.000 But so then, you know, that was kind of what lingered, lingered within there.
00:22:10.000 And there was a time we were almost going to rematch, and it didn't happen.
00:22:14.000 But at the end of the day, the fight with Joe, excuse me, what's his name?
00:22:20.000 Oh, my God.
00:22:21.000 I'm having a senior moment, Joe.
00:22:24.000 You don't have those, though, John.
00:22:25.000 Yeah, I'll have them soon.
00:22:28.000 Yeah.
00:22:28.000 But Johnny's Terrio, you know what I mean?
00:22:30.000 That was the difference in that fight, that I could kick the calf. 0.66
00:22:34.000 And so when you got a money move that you've developed over the course of time, because we were Kempo Shotokan at first.
00:22:41.000 And, you know, Kempo, you had a little flash, but with the Shotokan, it was front kick, it was right leg sweeps like that.
00:22:49.000 And so I was able to utilize that technique, and it worked for me to come back with the hook the way I did.
00:22:54.000 But at the end of the day, man, it's been a long journey from there.
00:22:59.000 It really happened.
00:23:00.000 Well, we got to see some glimpses of guys who were skillful with leg kicks, fight guys who didn't know what to do with them, and then their progression.
00:23:08.000 Because a good example is Don the Dragon Wilson when he fought Dennis Alexio.
00:23:12.000 Dennis Alexio was a scary man.
00:23:14.000 He was a destroyer.
00:23:15.000 And back in the day when Dennis Alexio was fighting, it was all above the waist stuff.
00:23:20.000 And then he agreed to a below-the-waist kick with Don Wilson.
00:23:23.000 And Don Wilson just took his legs away.
00:23:26.000 He just kept kicking.
00:23:27.000 I mean, Dennis Alexio was a tank, man.
00:23:29.000 That guy was a powerhouse.
00:23:30.000 We knew him.
00:23:30.000 With Don, Don just kept chopping at those legs, chopping out those legs.
00:23:34.000 And eventually, Dennis could barely move.
00:23:36.000 Yeah, actually, Dennis ended up fighting one of our fighters.
00:23:42.000 Well, no, no, it was not famous.
00:23:46.000 It was anyway, he was from Australia.
00:23:54.000 Stan Longinitis.
00:23:55.000 Stan J. Stego.
00:23:56.000 Stan the man Longines.
00:23:57.000 The thunder from down under.
00:23:58.000 Yeah, I remember that, dude.
00:23:59.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:24:00.000 Yeah.
00:24:00.000 And I think he broke Dennis Alexio's leg.
00:24:03.000 This femur.
00:24:04.000 Yeah, he broke it with a leg kick.
00:24:06.000 Yes, he did.
00:24:09.000 Yeah, there it is.
00:24:11.000 Boom.
00:24:12.000 Yeah, right there.
00:24:13.000 Right there.
00:24:14.000 He was in Hawaii.
00:24:15.000 I think it was his lower leg.
00:24:17.000 It seemed like it was his lower leg.
00:24:19.000 Yeah.
00:24:21.000 Right here.
00:24:21.000 Boom.
00:24:22.000 Yep, he checked it.
00:24:23.000 Oh, yeah.
00:24:23.000 You see it buckling.
00:24:25.000 Oh, God.
00:24:26.000 Was that Dennis Alexio's last fight?
00:24:29.000 That's the last time I've seen him fight.
00:24:31.000 Because, I mean, how do you most guys, when that happens, it's over.
00:24:36.000 That's crazy.
00:24:37.000 So Stan the Man came to stay at the JIT Center for a while.
00:24:40.000 So he lived in town with us for quite a while.
00:24:45.000 Yeah, my friend Shuki Ron from Majiro Gym said that he was training with Stan Longitas, and he said he got a hip replacement because Stan Longides was kicking his leg so hard with the pads on, you know, where they hold the shield.
00:25:00.000 He said he had to get a hip replacement from getting kicked that hard.
00:25:03.000 How crazy is that?
00:25:05.000 You know, back then, it was not how hard you hit, it was how right you were hitting.
00:25:11.000 Sure.
00:25:11.000 And that, and he man, when he hit, he hit that target right on the money.
00:25:17.000 Well, it looked like Dennis was trying to check it.
00:25:19.000 Oh, yeah.
00:25:20.000 Well, I mean, even the impact, it was the way he shot the impact.
00:25:25.000 Just sheer power, too.
00:25:26.000 I mean, just right on that.
00:25:28.000 Right on that shin bone.
00:25:30.000 Crazy.
00:25:30.000 Yeah.
00:25:31.000 I mean, it's, but the thing is, unfortunately, what happened was PKA karate became a thing was, remember, you had to get a minimum amount of kicks on the ground.
00:25:42.000 Eight kicks.
00:25:43.000 You have to do math while you're fighting.
00:25:45.000 Yeah.
00:25:45.000 But it was also, a lot of the guys were not good kickers.
00:25:49.000 And so what it became is guys who weren't that good a kicker, and then they would box.
00:25:53.000 And it was kind of sloppy boxing.
00:25:55.000 And so it lost a lot of the appeal to the American public, which was unfortunate because if they just allowed low kicks from the beginning and we got to see the guys from Japan, we got to see the guys from Thailand, we got to see you guys do all your thing, it would have probably flourished in America and been as big as MMA.
00:26:15.000 Because this is something that I've been trying to push with the UFC.
00:26:18.000 Because, you know, one championship fight, they do a real good job with it where they'll have Muay Thai fights, they'll have kickboxing fights, and they also have MMA, and they also even have grappling competitions.
00:26:29.000 But I've been trying to say to the UFC, like if you, like, a lot of times people boo when people go to the ground.
00:26:34.000 Well, here's the solution: have some fights where it's just stand-up fights.
00:26:39.000 Have some fights, MMA gloves, Muay Thai rules, you know, where you don't go to the ground.
00:26:46.000 Like, have that.
00:26:46.000 I mean, it would be incredibly exciting.
00:26:49.000 And have, you know, like, or you could even do a whole promotion of it.
00:26:52.000 But in America, unfortunately, kickboxing, because of the PKA, what they call it, the kick of the 80s, remember back then?
00:27:00.000 That's what they call this, right?
00:27:01.000 PK karate, the kick of the 80s.
00:27:03.000 That's right.
00:27:05.000 Bad Brad Hift.
00:27:05.000 Bad Brad Hefton.
00:27:07.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:27:08.000 Oh, there was a lot of guys that were really good.
00:27:10.000 Jerry Trimble, he was really good.
00:27:12.000 He was very good.
00:27:13.000 I met him once on a set. 0.98
00:27:15.000 I think we did like a commercial together or some shit.
00:27:17.000 I forget what it was, but I met him when he's been doing a lot of acting.
00:27:21.000 But those guys were really good.
00:27:22.000 Of course, Rick Rufus.
00:27:24.000 Rick Rufus was outstanding.
00:27:25.000 And he changed the course of his life from fighting a Thai too. 0.97
00:27:29.000 Well, he got broken down by that one Thai dude and had to learn leg kicks and how to learn what that's all about. 1.00
00:27:35.000 But if they had allowed that on TV from the beginning, I think PKA karate would have been hugely successful.
00:27:43.000 You know, in the PKA, because of Bill Wallace, it was from the waist.
00:27:49.000 Yeah.
00:27:50.000 And so my brother and Howard Hansen started the WKA World Karate.
00:27:55.000 And that's when we went to Japan and we started saying everything went because in Japan, elbows and knees and so forth, because they're Muay Thai fighters over there.
00:28:06.000 And I figure, okay.
00:28:07.000 Yeah.
00:28:08.000 Then to me, there's no rules.
00:28:09.000 Let's go.
00:28:10.000 It's interesting because in K1, they eliminated the elbows.
00:28:13.000 That's right.
00:28:13.000 They just wanted less cuts.
00:28:15.000 There were like too many people getting cut and fights were getting stopped from cuts.
00:28:18.000 That's right.
00:28:19.000 And we just want more action.
00:28:21.000 But, you know, the really purpose of that is because, you know, the insurance behind it, I mean, people were getting, I mean, I'm talking about just their lips opened up across their eyebrows.
00:28:34.000 And I mean, they were getting from the elbows like they were like axes going across your face, you know, with elbows and so forth.
00:28:41.000 And brutal.
00:28:43.000 But the Thai, they wanted to catch you with the elbow because they wanted you to bleed because the fight's over. 1.00
00:28:48.000 Well, they were so good at slicing elbows. 0.96
00:28:53.000 And that's what really cuts you open, especially to the forehead, and the forehead bleeds like crazy.
00:28:58.000 You know, it's it, the one decision to benefit Bill Superfoot Wallace probably screwed over kickboxing in America.
00:29:08.000 Kind of crazy because then Bill Wallace became the first commentator on the UFC.
00:29:14.000 Which is ironic.
00:29:15.000 The first commentator on the UFC is Bill Superfoot Wallace.
00:29:19.000 I'll be dangerous which is crazy because like this is no rules, Bill.
00:29:23.000 This is like this is rules are completely out the window.
00:29:26.000 That's right.
00:29:26.000 That's right.
00:29:28.000 It's very unfortunate because I think the development of kickboxing in this country has been stagnated.
00:29:35.000 You know, and it had a shot for a while with glory.
00:29:39.000 Glory was doing really well in America.
00:29:41.000 They had Last Man Standing in LA.
00:29:42.000 Remember that?
00:29:43.000 Yeah, absolutely.
00:29:45.000 A crazy event, amazing event.
00:29:47.000 But for whatever reason, it just didn't take hold.
00:29:49.000 It was so exciting.
00:29:51.000 But it just never, they had it, I believe they had it on Spike TV for a while.
00:29:55.000 It just, for whatever reason, it wasn't promoted correctly or it just didn't catch with the American public.
00:30:02.000 And I genuinely don't understand that.
00:30:04.000 Couldn't get the sponsorship either, Joe.
00:30:06.000 Yeah.
00:30:07.000 But with the views come the sponsors, right?
00:30:11.000 And it's really just about presenting a package together and making it exciting for people.
00:30:16.000 See, the thing is with the UFC in America, the UFC is so popular that if the UFC is coming to town, everybody's going to go see the UFC.
00:30:24.000 Every time the UFC is at Philly or Houston, it's like, let's go.
00:30:27.000 And you get tens of thousands of people want to come out to see the UFC.
00:30:31.000 But with kickboxing, you got to sell it on these people.
00:30:34.000 You got to sell it to them.
00:30:35.000 And it hasn't been sold properly yet.
00:30:38.000 But the thing is, the product is there.
00:30:41.000 There's great strikers out there.
00:30:43.000 Like, Jamie, pull up a clip of Yuki Yoza.
00:30:47.000 This cat freaks me out because like his combinations, man, he's so lethal.
00:30:53.000 And it just, you see guys who just don't know what to do with the fact that he's taking away their legs like right away.
00:31:01.000 He does this weird thing too where he like hooks their legs too and throws great boxing combinations too.
00:31:08.000 But it's like everything is just constantly chopping at the inside of the legs.
00:31:13.000 He throws high kicks and everything.
00:31:14.000 He's just, and he's just brutalizing these dudes.
00:31:19.000 And it's constant, no matter what he's doing, he's chopping your legs, taking your legs away, going inside, going outside.
00:31:28.000 The kid's very good.
00:31:30.000 And, you know, that Kyokushin background, you know, you guys know as well as anybody.
00:31:35.000 It's such a brutal style.
00:31:37.000 And they have to learn boxing afterwards because the Kilkushin competition is all punches to the chest only.
00:31:43.000 But look, if you can learn how to kick, you can learn how to punch.
00:31:47.000 It's just a matter of putting the time in.
00:31:48.000 And this dude has put the time in.
00:31:50.000 He does this sneaky thing too, where he throws a low kick and then he hooks their calves and it works even on the ties.
00:31:59.000 I mean, just when you see a Thai getting his legs destroyed by a Japanese, you realize, wow, this sport has really changed. 1.00
00:32:08.000 That's without a doubt.
00:32:11.000 One of the cool things about combat sports is that you see a new person rise doing something different, and when they do, everybody else has to sort of catch up.
00:32:20.000 And then the techniques evolve, and you see everybody rise to the level of whatever this person's at and recognize that there's new techniques that people are using.
00:32:29.000 Because, you know, martial arts has evolved more since 1993 to 2026 than it did in the last 10,000 years.
00:32:36.000 And it's really because of exposure and because people like you guys went out there in the early, early days and laid it all out on the line to find out.
00:32:45.000 Because when I started doing martial arts, it was 82, 81, or 82.
00:32:53.000 And back then, no matter what you, 81, no matter what you did, you thought your style was the best.
00:32:59.000 And no one really knew.
00:33:00.000 You know, if you did karate, you thought karate was the best.
00:33:03.000 If you did taekwondo, that was the best.
00:33:05.000 And there was no competition where everybody went together that we knew of, other than we heard about your fights that you guys had in Hawaii.
00:33:12.000 Everybody heard about that.
00:33:13.000 It was like legendary.
00:33:14.000 Like Penny and Blinky went on Hawaii and they fought everybody.
00:33:16.000 No rules.
00:33:17.000 Like, no rules.
00:33:19.000 But we figured, oh, the strikers won.
00:33:21.000 Striking's the way to go.
00:33:22.000 It has to be.
00:33:23.000 Like, the best strikers won.
00:33:25.000 But then you watch the UFC, like, oh, geez, what are they doing?
00:33:28.000 Like, what is this Brazilian cat who's strangling everybody with a gi on? 0.92
00:33:31.000 This is nuts.
00:33:32.000 And it changed martial arts again.
00:33:35.000 But, you know, everybody's looking for the next biggest thing.
00:33:41.000 And so far, you know, I mean, where do you go from there?
00:33:44.000 From UFC, where you can throw ground and pound and so forth.
00:33:49.000 When you do technique standing, everybody sees it.
00:33:53.000 But when it goes to the ground, everybody's looking at the monitor because they can't see nothing.
00:33:58.000 Right.
00:33:58.000 And so a lot of people were thinking it's boring, but they didn't realize there was a skill on the ground, but nobody's seen it and it looked boring.
00:34:09.000 But when you got up, so they were paying some of the fighters to stop the opponent standing instead of going to the ground.
00:34:17.000 Well, there's a lot of promoters that definitely encourage fighters to not go to the ground and discourage them when they did go to the ground because they knew they could take a guy down and just hold him down and beat him up a little bit and win.
00:34:27.000 And the promoters are like, we're not interested in you.
00:34:29.000 Which I think is not fair because it's all about fighting.
00:34:33.000 And if a guy can hold you down, you have to figure out how to get up.
00:34:37.000 And if otherwise, we're pretending.
00:34:39.000 We're pretending these techniques work.
00:34:41.000 Because if a guy is like a world-class wrestler, some Division I all-American, he takes you down, holds you down, you got to figure out how to handle that.
00:34:49.000 Otherwise, we're lying.
00:34:51.000 Because the sport is about combat.
00:34:53.000 It's about fighting.
00:34:54.000 It's the sport of fighting.
00:34:56.000 Fighting is a man that can hold you down.
00:34:59.000 If he could hold you down and beat you up, why is the referee standing you up?
00:35:04.000 Why is the referee giving you an opportunity to fight?
00:35:07.000 You have to figure out how to get up.
00:35:09.000 You have to figure out either how to submit him off your back, sweep him, or stand up.
00:35:14.000 Those are the options.
00:35:15.000 A referee standing you up because the crowd's booing, that's crazy.
00:35:20.000 You know, that's really true, though.
00:35:24.000 I think that the crowd, you know, they want to see action and they can't see it on the ground, but they don't realize there's a lot of action going on on the ground.
00:35:33.000 They don't have action.
00:35:34.000 But they don't see that.
00:35:36.000 They want to see, you know, it's almost like everybody at a car race.
00:35:40.000 They want to see the racing, but they want to see a car crash.
00:35:45.000 You know, I don't understand it, but they want to see the car crash.
00:35:48.000 They want to see something happen.
00:35:50.000 They want to get excited.
00:35:51.000 But that's casuals.
00:35:53.000 You know, the casuals are the ones that boo when the fight goes to the ground.
00:35:56.000 You can't change the rules for the casuals.
00:35:58.000 You know, but that's the problem when business gets involved in sport.
00:36:02.000 You know, you start altering the rules to make it more business friendly, which I just don't, I don't agree with.
00:36:08.000 I just don't think that's the way to do it.
00:36:11.000 Well, when you're talking about warriors, you know, you're talking about trained samurais.
00:36:16.000 Yes.
00:36:16.000 They're trained to actually get into and do their job and back away.
00:36:23.000 Yeah.
00:36:23.000 But again, you know, right now the promoters, a lot of the promoters are looking at, how can I fill my seats?
00:36:31.000 Yes.
00:36:31.000 You know, they don't care about the fighting.
00:36:34.000 They care about how can I bring, okay, he's popular.
00:36:36.000 He'll bring more people in the seats.
00:36:39.000 Yes.
00:36:40.000 And that's all they're looking at.
00:36:42.000 Well, it was my job in the early days of the UFC when it first got on television to explain to people what's going on when it hits the ground.
00:36:49.000 So it was my job, you know, back in, I started working for the UFC in 2001.
00:36:54.000 Well, I started in 97, then I started again in 2001.
00:36:57.000 And very few people other than martial artists understood jiu-jitsu.
00:37:00.000 You know, I had been training at Carlson Gracie's, and then by the time 98 came around, I was training at John Jacques Machado.
00:37:07.000 So I was training every day.
00:37:09.000 So I knew Jiu-Jitsu, and so I had to explain it like I was sitting next to my girlfriend.
00:37:14.000 Like, okay, what he's going to do now, he's going to throw his right leg over the side of his neck, and he's going to trap that arm. 0.99
00:37:19.000 Okay, now he's fucked. 0.99
00:37:20.000 Now he's in trouble. 1.00
00:37:21.000 Now he's going to hook that leg under his ankle.
00:37:22.000 He's got the triangle.
00:37:23.000 He got the triangle.
00:37:24.000 And I had to get people excited about it.
00:37:26.000 Like I was excited about it, but also kind of talk them through it because they didn't know what was happening.
00:37:32.000 You had to explain, like, why are his legs wrapped around that guy's neck? 0.97
00:37:35.000 This looks gay. 1.00
00:37:36.000 Like, what the hell is going on? 0.99
00:37:38.000 You know, like, what is this? 0.93
00:37:39.000 And you realize, no, he's cutting off the blood to his brain with his legs. 0.63
00:37:43.000 And they're like, whoa, that's nuts.
00:37:45.000 You're like, right?
00:37:47.000 That's what Mel Gibson did to Gary Busey and lethal weapon.
00:37:49.000 They're like, that's crazy.
00:37:51.000 It works.
00:37:52.000 Like, yeah, that's a real technique.
00:37:53.000 He learned from Hori and Gracie.
00:37:56.000 And so the early days was a lot of it for me was about kind of explaining to me, to people that are at home what was happening and talking them through it.
00:38:05.000 Like that was the main part of my job once the fight got to the ground.
00:38:09.000 Now everybody understands.
00:38:11.000 Now everybody knows what a chokehold is.
00:38:14.000 Everybody knows what an arm bar is.
00:38:16.000 Everybody knows.
00:38:17.000 So now it's just about explaining whether or not he's in danger or he's free, where the elbow is, where the knee is.
00:38:24.000 And it's just kind of letting people know like whether or not he's okay or not.
00:38:27.000 But they know what's going on now.
00:38:29.000 Even though they know what's going on in the ground, they still want to see him get up.
00:38:33.000 You hear the crowd get up.
00:38:36.000 There's nothing like a knockout.
00:38:37.000 And there's nothing like a head kick knockout.
00:38:39.000 Head kick knockout is the ultimate.
00:38:41.000 When someone lands a head kick knockout like Leon Edwards versus Kamaro Usman, he's losing the fight, fifth round.
00:38:48.000 Boom! 0.99
00:38:48.000 Head kick. 0.99
00:38:49.000 You see Kamaro go down like, wah!
00:38:51.000 The crowd, Salt Lake City goes nuts.
00:38:53.000 That is the ultimate expression of martial arts is the kick, right?
00:38:57.000 And a head kick that scores a knockout.
00:39:00.000 Like, that's a Bruce Lee movie, you know?
00:39:02.000 Yeah, that's true.
00:39:04.000 That's what everybody wants to see.
00:39:06.000 They want to see it in real life against a trained, skilled opponent.
00:39:10.000 I get that.
00:39:10.000 That's the car crash.
00:39:12.000 Yeah, that's the car.
00:39:13.000 It's the skillful car crash.
00:39:15.000 But exactly.
00:39:16.000 Yeah.
00:39:17.000 All of it is skillful, but the more they know about it, the more they understand the skill it takes to get there.
00:39:23.000 So you shed the light on it.
00:39:25.000 You know what I'm saying?
00:39:26.000 Once people, like you said, understood the damage that's going on and the need to know the technique in that art form makes you the winner.
00:39:37.000 At the end of the day, who's getting their hand raised?
00:39:39.000 Right.
00:39:39.000 You know what I'm saying?
00:39:40.000 Right.
00:39:41.000 And then you got those that can do both. 0.77
00:39:43.000 They'll dazzle you with a spinning back kick to the chin, or they'll take you and put you in a rear naked choke. 1.00
00:39:49.000 You know what I mean?
00:39:50.000 So that's the other part of the game.
00:39:53.000 But when you start talking about back in the era that you understand and we understand, it was the Buddha heart.
00:40:00.000 That was the transition.
00:40:01.000 It was the spirit of.
00:40:03.000 It was the essence A. You know what I mean?
00:40:05.000 It was that tradition that really brought more mystique to the martial arts, more tradition, in a way that people honored.
00:40:13.000 You know what I mean?
00:40:14.000 So it was kind of like you start seeing the different transitions that came.
00:40:18.000 See what I'm saying?
00:40:19.000 And it's just like you hear people, it's like a guy's out.
00:40:23.000 He hits the ground, boom.
00:40:25.000 The referee don't get there in time, but he takes another whack or two.
00:40:29.000 You know what I mean?
00:40:30.000 So then that's the part, at least I'm like, wow, man, you want to make sure he don't get up, but at the end of the day, those couple of extra shots can create the damage.
00:40:40.000 More damage.
00:40:41.000 Absolutely.
00:40:41.000 More damage.
00:40:42.000 You see what I'm saying?
00:40:43.000 So at the end of the day, I mean, hey, it's vicious.
00:40:47.000 You've got to be conditioned.
00:40:49.000 I mean, you've got to put in the work without a doubt.
00:40:52.000 You know what I mean?
00:40:53.000 Because exhaustion has made cowards of many.
00:40:56.000 Yes.
00:40:57.000 So yeah, I mean, so that whole Buddha heart, the tradition, that atmosphere, that spirit, little by little started dissipating.
00:41:07.000 And then the new era starts coming in.
00:41:11.000 I believe the injuries that end the ground and pound or whatever, but the injury, even standing up, getting knocked out, standing, and hitting the mat.
00:41:24.000 You know, a lot.
00:41:26.000 You know, a lot of promoters are saying, you know, we want to see that.
00:41:30.000 But again, the insurance part, I mean, to get the insurance to cover a lot of these fighters is brutal.
00:41:38.000 Yeah, but you have to be.
00:41:39.000 It's a small show, that's it.
00:41:40.000 It's brutal, and you have, it's a lot of ground impound, a lot of jarring of the mind and the body.
00:41:49.000 Eventually it's going to give out.
00:41:52.000 And so some of them don't last two, three years.
00:41:55.000 And they're great at what they do.
00:41:57.000 But by the time they finish, it's hard for them to make a living.
00:42:02.000 Especially if they're married and so forth.
00:42:06.000 I mean, you've got to continue on life.
00:42:08.000 So they try to make it safe enough, but at the same time, when it comes down to the art of war, it's mental warfare, it's physical warfare, it's even spiritual warfare, the energies, man, that are coming at you.
00:42:22.000 So educating the public to what it really takes and what it is that we're doing in the ring, in the cage, what is exactly, okay, it's entertainment, but there's a skill.
00:42:36.000 There's a skill that we're using to be able to go in there and stop an opponent without getting hit.
00:42:42.000 Yeah, it really is a test of your spirit because it's a test of your spirit just to be able to discipline yourself, to get in condition and train properly.
00:42:50.000 It's a test of your spirit to be able to fight at the level of your actual abilities under pressure.
00:42:56.000 And when I describe martial arts competition, I say it's high-level problem solving with dire physical consequences.
00:43:03.000 Very well put.
00:43:04.000 That's what it is.
00:43:05.000 It's just like that's what you're going against a skilled guy who's trying to do something to you and he's moving and you're trying to do something to him and any mistake, boom.
00:43:15.000 And then the referees got a light in your face, and the next thing you know, you're like, oh my God, you don't know what happened.
00:43:21.000 I mean, you have two types of fighters.
00:43:23.000 You have a checker player who take two hits to give one that don't care.
00:43:27.000 And then you have a chess player that don't like to take any and give the four, five, and six.
00:43:32.000 They're doing combinations, exactly.
00:43:33.000 They're the ones that are doing combinations.
00:43:35.000 Well, that's why it's important where you train.
00:43:37.000 You know, and the gym that you guys had set up, the Jet Center, was legendary for developing champions and legendary for teaching proper technique and showing you the consequence of the moves and also teaching people that you don't have to spar to try to kill each other all the time.
00:43:52.000 You know, you could spar, like some of the best sparring I ever got was at the Jet Center because the place when I this is after I've been done fighting.
00:44:00.000 When I lived in Boston, when we trained, it was war.
00:44:04.000 Every time you sparred, you were just fighting.
00:44:06.000 There was no one pulled any punches.
00:44:08.000 No one pulled any kicks.
00:44:10.000 Everybody was blasting everybody full blast.
00:44:12.000 It was terrifying.
00:44:12.000 And you saw a lot of guys get knocked out in the gym and then they'd be back a couple days later.
00:44:16.000 And that's crazy.
00:44:17.000 That's crazy.
00:44:18.000 We know that now.
00:44:20.000 Back then, we didn't even think about it.
00:44:21.000 Everybody just came back.
00:44:22.000 You just came back, you started training again, you had a headache, and you just dealt with it.
00:44:27.000 Nobody actually understood a concussion.
00:44:31.000 Right.
00:44:32.000 Hey, all right, shake it off.
00:44:33.000 You know, it'll be okay.
00:44:35.000 You know, sit down for a while, have some water.
00:44:36.000 Okay, back in.
00:44:37.000 Right.
00:44:38.000 And so you went back in with the concussion, not even knowing that you had a concussion.
00:44:43.000 Right.
00:44:44.000 Other than I had a headache or I was a little dizzy, but I'm okay again.
00:44:47.000 Let me get back in because, hey, you didn't want to feel like, hey, I didn't get it. 0.99
00:44:51.000 I feel like a bitch. 0.99
00:44:52.000 That's right. 1.00
00:44:54.000 And so you get back in there with this.
00:44:56.000 And so that's what's going on with a lot of these fighters.
00:45:01.000 They, you know, before they go, I mean, they're training for their fight and they get a concussion.
00:45:05.000 And then next week, they're going into a fight with a concussion, not even knowing they had a concussion.
00:45:11.000 Happens all the time.
00:45:13.000 I know one guy who got knocked out twice in camp.
00:45:16.000 And then, like, one of them was less than two weeks before his fight. 0.99
00:45:20.000 And then he got touched on the chin in his fight, just went out cold because he was already fucked up. 0.99
00:45:25.000 That's right. 0.99
00:45:25.000 He came into the fight, like, severely compromised. 0.99
00:45:27.000 It's like going into battle with a hole in your armor.
00:45:30.000 He was already messed up.
00:45:32.000 And, you know, there's like, there's a time and place for hard sparring because I think you have to have some hard sparring to sparring to understand that, hey, you can't just block something like that. 0.96
00:45:42.000 You're going to get your arm fucked up.
00:45:44.000 You can't just have your, you're going to have to deal with the fact that hard shots are coming your way. 0.96
00:45:49.000 So sometimes you're going to have to spar hard.
00:45:51.000 But technique sparring is so important too.
00:45:54.000 One of the reasons why the ties are so successful is they play spar.
00:45:58.000 Like they fight every week.
00:45:59.000 So there's no reason to get banged up.
00:46:02.000 So when you watch Thai fighters, when they spar over there, they're like, oi, oi!
00:46:06.000 They touch each other.
00:46:07.000 They just touch each other.
00:46:08.000 They're not trying to hurt each other.
00:46:09.000 Because once a week, they have to go fight hard.
00:46:13.000 So they don't fight hard when they're training.
00:46:16.000 It's like their fighting is like their one hard sparring day.
00:46:20.000 Yes.
00:46:20.000 Because some of them literally are fighting once a week.
00:46:23.000 You get these guys that are 22 years old, they have 200 fights, which is crazy.
00:46:28.000 Crazy.
00:46:30.000 But, you know, again, if you're fighting for lifestyle as eating for your family, so forth, when you go in there, they're fighting.
00:46:42.000 Right.
00:46:43.000 There's no sparring session.
00:46:47.000 It's a fight.
00:46:48.000 And that's how they bring home food to their families. 1.00
00:46:51.000 And so when they go out there, I mean, they're fighting at five years old.
00:46:56.000 They're already trained.
00:46:57.000 Three years old, they're already training.
00:46:59.000 You know, by the time they're 10 years old, they have so much experience of the fight.
00:47:05.000 And some of them are done by the time they're 22, 24.
00:47:11.000 You know, they've been in 300 fights by the way.
00:47:13.000 That's it.
00:47:14.000 It's crazy.
00:47:14.000 It is crazy.
00:47:15.000 Yeah, and a lot of it over there is motivated by gambling.
00:47:19.000 So when people watch Thai fights, they go, why do they take the first round so light?
00:47:19.000 That's right.
00:47:23.000 Well, it's because that's when everybody gambles.
00:47:25.000 And they can switch rounds.
00:47:26.000 Yeah.
00:47:29.000 They switch opponents.
00:47:30.000 Oh, do they sometimes?
00:47:31.000 That's what I understood.
00:47:33.000 They switch opponents in between opponents, my God.
00:47:37.000 Who they're betting on.
00:47:38.000 Oh, right, right, right.
00:47:39.000 Switch opponents while they're going to bet on.
00:47:42.000 Yeah, they do that all the time.
00:47:43.000 I mean, there's so much gambling going on.
00:47:45.000 When you go to a Muay Thai fight in Thailand, in the beginning of the fight, you see everybody waving money around and pointing to people, and everybody's like setting bets.
00:47:54.000 So the first round, those fighters are just kind of like setting the pace and just experiencing each other's timing.
00:48:01.000 And then the second round comes in, all the bets are in, they start ramping it up, and then they start really fighting, which is alien to a lot of foreigners.
00:48:09.000 They go over there and they try to go wild in the first round.
00:48:12.000 Like, you got to let the bets get in.
00:48:15.000 And they're like, what?
00:48:16.000 What are you talking about?
00:48:17.000 Like, no, no, no.
00:48:18.000 It's an agreement, a silent agreement.
00:48:20.000 When you go out there for that first round, for that first round, you're just feeling each other out.
00:48:24.000 That guy's not going to try to knock you out.
00:48:26.000 He's just trying to feel you out. 0.61
00:48:27.000 He's going to try to land some shots, a couple hard leg kicks, maybe a teep.
00:48:32.000 But really, he's just waiting for that second round to open up.
00:48:35.000 Exactly.
00:48:36.000 And that's, again, it's a way of life to them.
00:48:41.000 And, you know, a lot of them, their parents are selling their kids when they're very young because they can't afford it.
00:48:48.000 And they're in.
00:48:49.000 And the kids take on the name of the gym.
00:48:51.000 And that's all.
00:48:52.000 They're upstairs.
00:48:53.000 They walk, talk, sleep, dream it in that gym.
00:48:56.000 They don't go outside.
00:48:57.000 Yeah.
00:48:58.000 Every day, that's all they do.
00:48:59.000 They're trained for fighting.
00:49:01.000 And I mean, I've been to a couple of them, and that's it.
00:49:06.000 They don't see nothing else.
00:49:07.000 They just train, they go upstairs, they do it, and the next day they do the repeating, and then they go to the fights.
00:49:15.000 It is crazy because the money from the gambling is what led the sport to be so huge, and the sport becoming so huge over there is what led them to be so good.
00:49:25.000 And all that money and gambling led it to be one of the most fierce fighting styles on earth.
00:49:30.000 Because while the rest of the world hadn't figured out the knees and the elbows and the clinch and the leg kicks, the Thais had been doing it forever. 0.97
00:49:39.000 They had already been doing it for a long time.
00:49:41.000 It took a long time for the rest of the world to catch up to what Thailand had figured out just from allowing people to fight for money.
00:49:50.000 I mean, you're talking about in 75 just understanding the word Muay Thai.
00:49:56.000 Right.
00:49:57.000 Not knowing what they're doing.
00:49:58.000 Thinking it was a guy.
00:49:59.000 Say, what the heck is that? 0.58
00:50:01.000 That is such a crazy story.
00:50:04.000 And then, of course, the leg checks, counters, and you start, we started getting the idea, okay, well, okay, this is how you fight them.
00:50:12.000 And then you have other styles for American bread fighters that didn't have part of that game in their repertoire of arsenal, you know what I'm saying?
00:50:21.000 Right, right.
00:50:22.000 So I think that's what the other thing that the PK did. 0.94
00:50:26.000 It didn't give anybody from the PK a chance to learn, you know, internationally what was going on in the world. 0.99
00:50:35.000 Not to put them down, because you know what?
00:50:36.000 That was all part of us moving forward back in the day, learning.
00:50:42.000 But when you come up through Shotokan, you're going to know how to sweep and you're going to know how to front kick.
00:50:47.000 You know what I mean?
00:50:48.000 And so that was on the traditional side of the art.
00:50:52.000 But yeah.
00:50:54.000 It's unfortunate.
00:50:55.000 It's unfortunate because even Dana White, when I talked to him about it, I was like, oh, people don't care about kickboxing.
00:51:00.000 I'm like, it's just because it was sold badly in the 80s.
00:51:05.000 That's really all it is.
00:51:06.000 Like if it was around today, I genuinely believe it would, like, if kickboxing had gotten the same sort of promotional push that the UFC got way back in 2001, I think it would be just as big as boxing, just as big as MMA.
00:51:21.000 I think it would be huge right now.
00:51:23.000 I'm going to agree with you because there are a lot of excellent stand-up fighters that are really colorful and use all their weapons.
00:51:33.000 They can use elbows, knees, feet, jumping.
00:51:36.000 I mean, things that no, everybody affairs, I don't do that.
00:51:41.000 They didn't want me to throw spinning back kicks.
00:51:44.000 It doesn't work.
00:51:45.000 I said, really?
00:51:47.000 And I've been showing them every time they said, I made them eat the words because again, the art, if you do it right, it looks fancy.
00:52:00.000 It doesn't work if you're not good at it.
00:52:02.000 No.
00:52:02.000 Yeah, like everything doesn't work if you're not good at it.
00:52:05.000 If you try to punch Floyd Mayweather, you're not going to hit him.
00:52:08.000 It doesn't mean punches don't work.
00:52:09.000 It just means you're not good enough at it.
00:52:12.000 You know what I mean?
00:52:14.000 It's interesting that people don't see that.
00:52:17.000 Even coaches don't see that sometimes.
00:52:19.000 You know, Terrence Crawford learned how to switch hit, you know, because Terrence Crawford is one of the best switch dance fighters ever since Marvin Hagler.
00:52:29.000 And one of the reasons why he did it is because his coach told him he can't do that.
00:52:33.000 His coach was like, don't do that.
00:52:34.000 Stay Orthodox. 1.00
00:52:35.000 Stop messing around.
00:52:36.000 He's like, what?
00:52:37.000 He's like, I could fight this way too.
00:52:38.000 He's like, no, no, no, you can't.
00:52:39.000 He's like, oh, okay.
00:52:41.000 I'll show you. 0.98
00:52:42.000 And he would go on, start fight southpaw, and then like start fucking people up and switch hands on them. 0.97
00:52:47.000 And they're like, oh, no. 0.97
00:52:48.000 Because it's an amazing skill to have.
00:52:51.000 But it's only amazing if you develop your southpaw style as good as your orthodox style.
00:52:56.000 It doesn't mean that you can't do it.
00:52:58.000 It means it has to be at that leg.
00:53:00.000 If you want to land a spinning back kick, it doesn't mean you can't land a spinning back kick.
00:53:04.000 It just means your spinning back kick's not good enough to land.
00:53:07.000 But Benny Arquidez can land that spinning back kick.
00:53:10.000 I mean, I'm softpaw.
00:53:12.000 I'm a lefty.
00:53:13.000 But I fought left forward because my brother said, don't let them know you're lefty.
00:53:19.000 So he trained all of us.
00:53:21.000 Even my sister was lefty. 1.00
00:53:23.000 And we all trained left forward.
00:53:26.000 But when we struck, you couldn't tell that we were a softpaw.
00:53:30.000 So we started left-handed and working this.
00:53:34.000 But that was his logic.
00:53:36.000 It was also the benefit of that is you had a lethal left-hand kick. 0.96
00:53:39.000 So your left side kick, that front kick, the side kick from the left side, and the front round kick from the left side was fast as fuck because you're a naturally left-sided fighter. 0.94
00:53:49.000 That's right. 0.96
00:53:49.000 Yeah. 0.96
00:53:50.000 That's right.
00:53:51.000 You know, I think that it's just each decade as we go.
00:53:56.000 You know, as Blinky was talking about, the Bursciuta way, you know, there was a, you know, you had honor, there was an honor system and all that.
00:54:05.000 And then in the 70s, it started to change when full contact karate came in.
00:54:11.000 It started to change.
00:54:13.000 And then kickboxing in 75 and on, people were, you know, oh, we're not martial artists, we're kickboxers.
00:54:23.000 Then Muay Thai came, oh, we're Muay Thai, we're not kickboxers.
00:54:28.000 And every then we're UCI fighters, we're not Muay Thai fighters.
00:54:33.000 I said, you know, so every decade it changed.
00:54:35.000 But again, you needed to learn from ground one.
00:54:39.000 And the ground one was internal.
00:54:42.000 The I am concept for what you tell yourself with that, you know, and there was an honor system going on and there was a code of honor between warriors.
00:54:51.000 Right.
00:54:52.000 And that got lost.
00:54:53.000 That's right.
00:54:53.000 And there was power in that.
00:54:55.000 There was power in that code of honor of strength, of knowing.
00:54:59.000 And they said, well, how do you know?
00:55:00.000 I say, I just know.
00:55:01.000 But they said, how do you know?
00:55:03.000 I said, I can't answer you that other than the fact that I just know.
00:55:07.000 The tenets of a warrior code that you would learn in traditional martial arts were very important.
00:55:12.000 That's why everybody would bow at the beginning of the class and everybody would key eye at the same time.
00:55:19.000 There was a rigid structure to it.
00:55:22.000 And they would not let anyone trash talk.
00:55:25.000 There was no yelling and swearing.
00:55:27.000 There was no none of that.
00:55:28.000 You don't even wipe the sweat off your head.
00:55:30.000 There was bowing, and you know, it was the beginning of the fight.
00:55:34.000 Everybody bowed to each other, went back to their corner.
00:55:37.000 There was no trash talk.
00:55:38.000 There was no none of that.
00:55:39.000 It was your words will be spoken with your weapons.
00:55:43.000 That's it.
00:55:44.000 I wanted to just add, you know, Benny mentioned his sister.
00:55:47.000 Well, we're in cousins.
00:55:49.000 I was married to Lily.
00:55:51.000 Lily was my wife.
00:55:53.000 And she passed away.
00:55:54.000 But she was a trailblazer for women. 1.00
00:55:56.000 Absolutely.
00:55:57.000 Boxing and kid boxing.
00:55:58.000 I was titles in both.
00:56:00.000 Fought Madison Square Garden in 1978, you know, also.
00:56:04.000 And just paying homage, you know, because she also pioneered and was taking the forefront, you know, fighting at the Olympic, fighting at the Forum, fighting Japan, traveled the war and fought, and represented well and trained hard.
00:56:19.000 You know what I'm saying?
00:56:21.000 So, yeah.
00:56:21.000 Because actually, at the fights, my sister, Lily, she actually fought first.
00:56:27.000 Blinky will fight, and then I would be the last to fight.
00:56:30.000 So all three of us, when we traveled the world introducing kickboxing, my sister, Blinky, and myself, we all fought at the same card.
00:56:39.000 So the night Bobby Chuckon, have you remember that name?
00:56:42.000 Bobby Chakon, sure.
00:56:43.000 Okay, Bobby Chuckon and Alexis Arguello.
00:56:45.000 Oh, yeah.
00:56:46.000 We fought on their card.
00:56:47.000 Both of us.
00:56:48.000 First husband and wife to fight on a boxing card like that. 0.63
00:56:52.000 Wow.
00:56:52.000 Under that right there.
00:56:54.000 Wow.
00:56:57.000 And I grew up with Bobby.
00:56:58.000 We grew up with Bobby.
00:56:59.000 He came out of the San Fernando Valley.
00:57:01.000 Little featherweight.
00:57:02.000 Yeah.
00:57:03.000 His whole style.
00:57:05.000 Yeah, his whole style.
00:57:07.000 I was his sparring partner for a while.
00:57:09.000 He started busting up my nose and give me black eyes.
00:57:12.000 I said, one time he hit me with such a beautiful right hand, my leg came up automatically, and he started taking his glove off.
00:57:20.000 I'm not sparring with you.
00:57:21.000 I said, it was a reflex.
00:57:24.000 I'm sorry, but I didn't mean to bring the leg up.
00:57:26.000 He said, he started taking his glove.
00:57:28.000 I don't want to spar with you no more.
00:57:29.000 Did you hit him with the leg or just pick it up?
00:57:30.000 No, I picked it up.
00:57:32.000 He hit me with a nice right.
00:57:35.000 And automatically, my right leg came up.
00:57:38.000 And by then, he just told Joe Ponce, I'm not sparring with him no more.
00:57:45.000 The craziest thing about all this is you guys were trailblazers and there was very little money in it.
00:57:51.000 Oh, yeah.
00:57:52.000 Are you kidding me?
00:57:52.000 Very.
00:57:53.000 Sometimes we paid for our own wages to get there to fight.
00:57:55.000 We paid him to fight.
00:57:57.000 No.
00:57:57.000 Really?
00:57:58.000 No, no, we didn't pay them.
00:58:00.000 I mean, when I say we did, we paid for our own gas just to go out there and actually fight.
00:58:06.000 So it was very little money.
00:58:08.000 Yeah, there was no money and glory and big houses and cars and the things that fighters look for today.
00:58:14.000 Just heart.
00:58:15.000 Yeah.
00:58:15.000 Just the love of the sport building it.
00:58:19.000 Well, I don't think you guys get enough credit.
00:58:21.000 And it's one of the reasons why I really wanted to have you on to talk about it because I think the sport needs to recognize the pioneers that blazed the trail.
00:58:31.000 And you two are one of the most important pioneers that blazed the trail in martial arts in this country.
00:58:36.000 And you did it back when no one knew what was going on.
00:58:40.000 People need to understand it.
00:58:41.000 70, like when did you guys first start fighting?
00:58:44.000 When did you have your first kickboxing competitions?
00:58:47.000 Actually, it was in 73.
00:58:50.000 It was called Full Contact Karate.
00:58:52.000 And we already was fighting in 64 martial arts.
00:58:56.000 And that was, you know, bare knuckles hitting the ground.
00:58:59.000 We were already sparring in there.
00:59:01.000 And then no one knew about it back then.
00:59:04.000 We have to realize, like, the Bruce Lee movies, when did they start coming out into America?
00:59:04.000 No.
00:59:08.000 Like, when was 70s?
00:59:09.000 Early 70s.
00:59:11.000 So this is almost 10 years before that.
00:59:14.000 Yeah.
00:59:15.000 Crazy.
00:59:16.000 Yeah.
00:59:16.000 Like real pioneers, man.
00:59:18.000 No one knew about it.
00:59:19.000 You had heard about judo.
00:59:21.000 People knew about judo.
00:59:22.000 Maybe some people had heard about karate, but it wasn't that popular in America.
00:59:26.000 The first thing was actually popular was the boxing.
00:59:29.000 Right.
00:59:30.000 And then after the boxing.
00:59:30.000 Okay.
00:59:31.000 Boxing has always been popular.
00:59:33.000 And then other than all the other sports, but boxing was when it came to the art of war.
00:59:37.000 And then it was judo.
00:59:40.000 And I started actually judo in 60.
00:59:44.000 And then in 1963, we started Kimpo Karate.
00:59:47.000 Is that where you met Gene LaBelle?
00:59:48.000 Yes, exactly.
00:59:51.000 And I tell you what, talking about the Master of Disasters.
00:59:53.000 Oh, yeah, he was awesome.
00:59:55.000 He ponsonagi.
00:59:56.000 Yeah.
00:59:57.000 I got a chance to meet him because one of the guys that I first trained jiu-jitsu under, I took private lessons from this guy, Silvio Pimento.
01:00:04.000 You know Silvio?
01:00:04.000 Oh, yeah.
01:00:05.000 I do.
01:00:06.000 Shout out to Silvio.
01:00:06.000 He's a great guy.
01:00:08.000 And he was a Gene LaBelle student.
01:00:10.000 So he had a bunch of nasty tricks that he had learned from Gene LaBelle along with his Jiu-Jitsu stuff.
01:00:14.000 So he showed me a lot of different chokes and different things and different variations that Gene had developed.
01:00:21.000 And I was like, man.
01:00:22.000 And then I finally got to meet Gene.
01:00:23.000 What a character that guy was.
01:00:25.000 He is such a character.
01:00:27.000 Gene was one of those type of warriors, since he's just saying, if you want to train with me, don't be afraid to get choked out.
01:00:38.000 And before you can actually train with him, he'd choke you out.
01:00:43.000 He'd choke you out and he would go and get lipstick and put it around your eyes.
01:00:47.000 And then when he wake you up, you had all of a sudden.
01:00:50.000 That was Since Gene.
01:00:53.000 And I told Since Jean, I said, get it over with.
01:00:56.000 Just choke me out, get it over.
01:00:57.000 Because I knew that I knew automatically, like he was being easy.
01:01:03.000 I said, just do it.
01:01:05.000 Get over.
01:01:06.000 I said, I'm not afraid.
01:01:07.000 Just do it.
01:01:08.000 And took me before, I was out and I was back up again.
01:01:13.000 I didn't even know I was out.
01:01:15.000 And he said, you took it like a, you know, like a charm, man.
01:01:21.000 You know, what's your essay?
01:01:23.000 I said, you know, since if I'm not afraid to die, what can you possibly do to me?
01:01:30.000 He said, really?
01:01:32.000 And I said, yeah.
01:01:34.000 And then he grabbed my big toe and put me in pain all the way up to my forehead, all the way back down to the other big toe.
01:01:42.000 And I said, I'll never say that one again.
01:01:45.000 Your big toe.
01:01:46.000 He had a big toe.
01:01:48.000 He grabbed my big toe at the edge of it and he put his nail in it.
01:01:48.000 Yeah.
01:01:55.000 And oh my God, my eyes were bulging.
01:01:57.000 Gene told me a story about when he was old.
01:02:00.000 I think he was in his 70s.
01:02:02.000 Some kids were breaking into his car and he went outside.
01:02:05.000 Did you hear this story?
01:02:06.000 Yes.
01:02:07.000 There's two guys that were talking. 0.99
01:02:08.000 They're like, get the fuck out of here, old man. 1.00
01:02:09.000 He's like, oh, really? 0.99
01:02:11.000 He grabs this dude, fucking hip, throws him out of the crown cream, boom, grabs the other dude, chokes him unconscious. 0.99
01:02:17.000 He fucked up two dudes when he was 70 years old in front of his house. 0.99
01:02:23.000 Matter of fact, I did a couple of movies with him. 0.98
01:02:25.000 His mother was Eileen Eaton.
01:02:28.000 She owned the Olympic auditorium.
01:02:30.000 Oh, wow.
01:02:31.000 I mean, the Olympic auditorium was the spot way back then, man.
01:02:35.000 You had some big-time fights going on.
01:02:37.000 Big-time fights.
01:02:37.000 Gene LaBelle, and always, he was always humble.
01:02:42.000 You know what I mean?
01:02:43.000 And he wore his humility very well. 0.98
01:02:45.000 Yeah, he was very self-deprecating and joking about himself and being silly.
01:02:50.000 But man, you shook that guy's hand. 1.00
01:02:52.000 You're like, this is a fucking gorilla. 1.00
01:02:55.000 It's Gene. 1.00
01:02:56.000 There he is.
01:02:57.000 Such a great guy.
01:02:59.000 Yes, he is.
01:02:59.000 Actually.
01:03:00.000 And he had one of the first mixed rules fights when he fought Milo Savage.
01:03:04.000 That's right.
01:03:05.000 That even predated the karate fights or the mixed martial arts fights that you guys had in Hawaii.
01:03:10.000 That's right.
01:03:10.000 He fought Milo Savage, who was a boxer, and he wore a gi.
01:03:14.000 And the gi was so smart because Milo got tangled up in the gi and Gene grabbed him and strangled him.
01:03:21.000 You know, matter of fact, it was Muhammad Ali at the time we went to fight in Japan.
01:03:28.000 And he was the main event.
01:03:30.000 I was a semi-event.
01:03:31.000 Was that when he was fighting Anoki?
01:03:32.000 Yeah, stood on the ground.
01:03:36.000 I went, and I knocked out my opponent quickly because I wanted to see the fight.
01:03:42.000 So I stopped my opponent.
01:03:44.000 Who did you fight?
01:03:45.000 Do you remember?
01:03:46.000 I can't even think of his name.
01:03:47.000 See if you can find the undercard, Benny's fight on the undercard.
01:03:51.000 Because that fight with Inoki was crazy.
01:03:53.000 I don't know how they talked Muhammad Ali into fighting him.
01:03:56.000 You know, it was a five-rounder, and there was not supposed to be no decision.
01:04:02.000 It was five-rounder and so forth.
01:04:04.000 And they both got paid great money.
01:04:06.000 But I was telling, in the dressing room, I was telling Muhammad Ali, he's going to go for your legs.
01:04:14.000 And he starts saying, I'm so fast.
01:04:19.000 I said, Muhammad, he's going to go for your legs. 1.00
01:04:23.000 And I said, sure enough, after I fought, I didn't even want to go to the dressing room.
01:04:28.000 I just wanted to stay there.
01:04:29.000 And when they came out, and sure enough, the first thing Tony did, jumped, went to the ground, and did a flying round kick to his thighs.
01:04:38.000 Yeah.
01:04:39.000 After the second round, Tony Onoki went out there and started going to his ground.
01:04:44.000 And Muhammad Ali jumped on the corner of the ring and was kicking him on the ground as he was holding on to the ring.
01:04:55.000 At the time, it was funny to see it.
01:04:58.000 But after the five-round, I'll tell you, Muhammad couldn't, I mean, they had to carry him. 1.00
01:05:03.000 Yeah, his legs were fucked up. 0.99
01:05:05.000 Oh, my God. 0.99
01:05:06.000 Yeah, they were really badly damaged.
01:05:08.000 And for a guy who relies on his legs as much as Ali did, that's a crazy fight to take because if he got sidekicked and hyperextended his knee and it was never the same, it would compromise his movement.
01:05:19.000 That was float like a butterfly. 1.00
01:05:21.000 That was a big part of his style.
01:05:23.000 That's true.
01:05:24.000 And I just can't imagine how anybody allowed him to take that fight.
01:05:30.000 Like, if I was his manager, I'd be like, there's no way you're taking this fight.
01:05:33.000 This guy's going to ruin your legs. 0.51
01:05:35.000 You know, first of all, it was always about, whether it was about the money or not, but it was about, you know, doing something different.
01:05:43.000 Right.
01:05:44.000 And Tony Onoki, being, you know, Muhammad Ali here in the United States, you know, Tony Onoki was the man.
01:05:54.000 He was the man in Japan.
01:05:56.000 Pro wrestling.
01:05:57.000 Yeah.
01:05:57.000 And so that's why they went and it was packed the place.
01:06:02.000 Did you find that video?
01:06:03.000 Is it available online at all?
01:06:05.000 I was looking for the.
01:06:06.000 I mean, I can only find stuff about the event was called The War of the Worlds, and they also showed it on TV on the screen.
01:06:13.000 Wow, the giant.
01:06:15.000 Andre the Giant fell off.
01:06:17.000 He fought Chuck Webner?
01:06:19.000 Wow.
01:06:20.000 Wow.
01:06:22.000 That's crazy.
01:06:23.000 So that was in New York?
01:06:24.000 Yeah.
01:06:24.000 That was a TV event.
01:06:26.000 It says like 10 rounds direct from New York and this is 15 rounds direct from Tokyo.
01:06:30.000 Oh, pay-per-view or something.
01:06:33.000 Oh, wow.
01:06:35.000 Even a co-feature will appear local to your area.
01:06:38.000 Oh, wow.
01:06:41.000 But there's no video available.
01:06:42.000 Look, I'm still looking right.
01:06:46.000 Just their fight.
01:06:47.000 That was it.
01:06:48.000 That was a great fight, though.
01:06:49.000 Yeah, their fight was crazy.
01:06:51.000 Their fight was crazy.
01:06:52.000 When you look at Anoki kicking him, you're like, this is just nuts.
01:06:56.000 He jumped right to the ground.
01:06:58.000 He was a big guy.
01:07:00.000 Oh yeah.
01:07:01.000 He was a big guy.
01:07:02.000 But you know what?
01:07:04.000 He wasn't full Japanese.
01:07:06.000 He was half Japanese, half something else. 1.00
01:07:09.000 But he was tall and he had a square jaw that was and his thighs.
01:07:14.000 Yeah, he was a big dude.
01:07:15.000 Oh yeah, without a doubt.
01:07:17.000 Is this the promotion for the fight, not the actual fight itself?
01:07:20.000 I don't know.
01:07:22.000 Oh, there it goes.
01:07:23.000 Oh, it's not showing you the actual fight, but there was a lot of that.
01:07:26.000 Oh, yeah.
01:07:27.000 I wonder what they paid Ali to do that.
01:07:29.000 Yeah.
01:07:30.000 Because that seems like a crazy decision to make.
01:07:35.000 They took him right to the hospital.
01:07:36.000 See, look at that.
01:07:37.000 Drops down and kicks the legs.
01:07:40.000 This is it.
01:07:41.000 Ali was on the ropes lifting his legs up.
01:07:43.000 I'm in the corner.
01:07:44.000 I wonder if you can see me then, but yeah. 0.90
01:07:48.000 But it's just getting your legs kicked like that if you don't know what the hell's going on. 0.95
01:07:52.000 Like that's going to destroy your legs. 0.92
01:07:52.000 No. 0.92
01:07:54.000 Oh, yeah.
01:07:55.000 I mean, right after that, went right to the hospital.
01:07:59.000 They had a drain.
01:08:00.000 They had a drain.
01:08:01.000 I mean, his legs were full of fluid.
01:08:03.000 They had to drain it out.
01:08:04.000 Oh, man.
01:08:05.000 Yeah, it heard he got infected, too.
01:08:07.000 Didn't he get infected in the hospital and he was there for quite a while?
01:08:10.000 Yeah.
01:08:10.000 That's terrible, man.
01:08:12.000 That is so terrible.
01:08:14.000 I just don't understand why anybody.
01:08:16.000 So this is 1976.
01:08:18.000 Yeah, that was the end of card there.
01:08:20.000 Was Ali the champ back then?
01:08:22.000 I think so.
01:08:24.000 I think so.
01:08:25.000 Wow. 0.96
01:08:28.000 Just nuts, man.
01:08:29.000 He was WBCW Bay Heavyweight Boxing Champion.
01:08:29.000 Yep.
01:08:32.000 Wow.
01:08:33.000 I trained with Tony Onoki.
01:08:35.000 Yeah?
01:08:36.000 What was that like?
01:08:36.000 Yeah.
01:08:38.000 I'm going to tell you, the way they trained there, they had these, I mean, working.
01:08:44.000 I mean, they didn't use weights, but the strength, his grip was like a vice grip.
01:08:50.000 And they used those steel clubs.
01:08:51.000 Yeah, the steel clubs, but he had all that was just natural movement.
01:08:56.000 So I even tried, so they had smaller ones for me.
01:08:59.000 But I trained with him for a week.
01:09:01.000 And I'll tell you what, every day I got up.
01:09:08.000 Man, because those muscles I've never used before.
01:09:11.000 Right.
01:09:12.000 Oh, my God.
01:09:12.000 Well, a lot of those guys learned strength and conditioning from Carl Gotch.
01:09:16.000 Yes.
01:09:16.000 And Carl Gotch was a legendary catch wrestler.
01:09:19.000 And Carl Gotch went over to Japan and trained a lot of those guys.
01:09:23.000 Like a lot of Sakuraba, a lot of those guys who eventually became big-time mixed martial arts fighters.
01:09:30.000 They started with catch wrestling.
01:09:32.000 And Carl Gotch was one of the beginning guys that came over to Japan and taught a lot of those Japanese pro wrestlers a lot of the different submission holds of catch wrestling.
01:09:42.000 And his big thing was conditioning.
01:09:44.000 Carl Gotch is a legendary strength and conditioning guy.
01:09:47.000 Like his routine was absolutely brutal.
01:09:50.000 In order to be able to train with him, before you could train with him, he had to know that you were in physical condition.
01:09:57.000 So you had to go through this program to get yourself up to, I forget what the requirement was, but it was some insane requirement of physical conditioning before he would even teach you anything.
01:10:08.000 Like you had to be in shape.
01:10:09.000 Like you got to have a gas tank.
01:10:11.000 You got to be strong.
01:10:12.000 You got to be agile.
01:10:13.000 And you got to be able to move well.
01:10:15.000 You know, my mother wrestled at the Olympic Auditorium. 0.99
01:10:19.000 Ram.
01:10:20.000 With actually Sensei Jean on the same card.
01:10:25.000 And then my, actually, I fought.
01:10:29.000 I fought there at the Olympic.
01:10:32.000 And so, and then my sister, Lily, she did Roller Derby at the Olympic. 1.00
01:10:38.000 And Fox.
01:10:38.000 Oh, wow.
01:10:39.000 She used to do it. 1.00
01:10:40.000 I was a rough lady.
01:10:42.000 Man, that's crazy.
01:10:45.000 Roller Derby's tough, man.
01:10:46.000 I've watched some of that.
01:10:48.000 I went to see an event of that live.
01:10:49.000 It's like, those girls get slammed. 0.91
01:10:51.000 Oh, yeah.
01:10:53.000 So a little quick vignette.
01:10:56.000 Lily was in a fight on a Bobby Chaucon card at the Olympic Auditorium. 1.00
01:10:59.000 So they did an article on Bobby, and in the article they mentioned Lily, that she's had over 50 street fights. 0.96
01:11:07.000 And when she read that, she was like, why would he say that?
01:11:10.000 Because he was pulling for her.
01:11:12.000 You know what I'm saying?
01:11:14.000 Just crazy stuff like that.
01:11:16.000 But yeah, she went in there and she was throwing him down. 1.00
01:11:21.000 And then out of the ring, you'd never guess it by looking at it.
01:11:24.000 Right.
01:11:25.000 Never guess it.
01:11:26.000 Never guess it.
01:11:27.000 Well, that was interesting because there was no real female boxing presence in this country back then. 1.00
01:11:33.000 That's right.
01:11:33.000 It really didn't exist.
01:11:35.000 Like before Lily, like who?
01:11:38.000 There wasn't.
01:11:39.000 There was no one.
01:11:40.000 Lily's the one that actually, a bunch of girls got together and Lily's the one that actually started boxing because they were saying women can't box. 1.00
01:11:50.000 Women can't box. 1.00
01:11:51.000 And she was knocking people out. 1.00
01:11:54.000 She was knocking men out at the gyms. 1.00
01:11:57.000 And that's when they decided, well, let's see what's going to happen.
01:12:00.000 Sure enough, she went out there and she was the first woman to have a boxing title, a martial art title, and a kickboxing title. 0.99
01:12:09.000 That's amazing.
01:12:09.000 She was the first woman.
01:12:10.000 That's amazing.
01:12:11.000 And then there was Lucia Riker in the 90s.
01:12:14.000 She was behind her.
01:12:15.000 Fantastic.
01:12:16.000 She couldn't get any fights. 0.99
01:12:18.000 Women didn't want to fight her. 1.00
01:12:19.000 She was knocking people out dead. 1.00
01:12:20.000 And she was a kickboxing champion as well.
01:12:22.000 Yes, that's right.
01:12:23.000 Started out Dutch kickboxing champion and then went into boxing and could never get that fight with Christy Martin.
01:12:29.000 Christy Martin was the big name.
01:12:31.000 Yes.
01:12:32.000 And she could never get a fight with her.
01:12:33.000 Yeah.
01:12:34.000 It's like Christy Martin was the first one in America that really broke through and became a famous female boxer.
01:12:41.000 But before her, and then there was, of course, Leila Li, and there's been a few other ones, Clarissa Shields, right now, who's the greatest woman of all time.
01:12:49.000 And it's like, there's, you know, it's those people, they owe it to Lily in a lot of ways.
01:12:55.000 And just like martial arts fighters owe it to you guys.
01:12:59.000 If someone didn't step in in the very early days and blaze that trail, no one's going to find out what's on the other side of the woods.
01:13:06.000 Hey, Joe, but after you saying that, you know, Sensei Ben's going to be inducted this coming Saturday at the martial arts museum.
01:13:19.000 So it's going to be, it's going to become, he's going to be inducted to the Muslim Museum.
01:13:24.000 That's awesome.
01:13:25.000 Actually, we have the first three-finger glove.
01:13:25.000 That's awesome.
01:13:29.000 This was in 73, the first three-finger glove of striking and grabbing.
01:13:34.000 Yeah.
01:13:34.000 So there's a lot of stuff that.
01:13:36.000 Like in Game of Death, those Bruce Lee gloves.
01:13:39.000 Yeah.
01:13:40.000 That needs to be redone.
01:13:41.000 You know, one of the big problems with MMA today is eye pokes.
01:13:44.000 It's a giant problem.
01:13:46.000 And I think it could be at least 80% solved by covering up the fingertips.
01:13:50.000 We don't need the fingertips for grappling.
01:13:52.000 You never grapple like this.
01:13:53.000 You never interlace your fingers.
01:13:55.000 So if you could just cover it up like an old school Everlast bag glove, just do that.
01:13:55.000 That's right.
01:14:00.000 Because you could still grapple, no problem.
01:14:02.000 It's like if you've got padding over the knuckles, just extend the leather over the tips of the fingers, make it like a mitten, put it under the hand like this, so your hand will slide into it the same way.
01:14:12.000 Your thumbs will still be free.
01:14:14.000 So you still have, unfortunately, you'll still have some pokes from the thumbs, but way less when you don't have eight other things to poke with.
01:14:20.000 That's right.
01:14:21.000 I think that can be done, and I don't think that takes away from the MMA sport at all.
01:14:25.000 No, because again, you know, a lot of them, some, they're striking and they're striking with their fingers open.
01:14:31.000 And I mean, some of them, I mean, I had this once guy that had his finger stuck so deep that they actually had it.
01:14:31.000 Yeah.
01:14:40.000 I mean, that's how deep his finger when he jabbed with his finger open.
01:14:44.000 Well, that happened recently with Tom Aspinall.
01:14:47.000 Yes.
01:14:47.000 With his heavyweight title, he was fighting Cyril Gahn.
01:14:50.000 Cyril Gahn poked him in the eye a couple times.
01:14:52.000 But one time with both fingers, in both eyes, he poked him. 0.99
01:14:56.000 And his right eye is fucked up. 0.98
01:14:58.000 He's already had one surgery. 0.97
01:14:59.000 He's going to have a second surgery soon for two.
01:15:03.000 How many detached retinas over the course of time?
01:15:07.000 Oh, a countless number.
01:15:09.000 I mean, you're going to have some detached retinas from fighting, period.
01:15:12.000 There's no way to avoid it.
01:15:13.000 You're getting punched and kicked and elbowed in the eye.
01:15:16.000 It's going to happen.
01:15:17.000 The MMA.
01:15:18.000 Yes, but it's going to be less of it.
01:15:20.000 I mean, look, Shigray Leonard had a detached retina.
01:15:22.000 That's right.
01:15:23.000 And that was just from boxing gloves. 0.99
01:15:25.000 You're going to have some detached retinas, but I think you'd have a lot less eye injuries if you covered those damn fingertips. 0.98
01:15:31.000 And it's just, we've gotten used to these MMA gloves that they have today. 0.96
01:15:36.000 It doesn't mean that this is the only way to do it.
01:15:39.000 They need to figure out another way.
01:15:40.000 Got to take care of the fighters.
01:15:41.000 100%.
01:15:42.000 And also make the sport better.
01:15:44.000 Because if fights don't get stopped from eye pokes, it's more exciting.
01:15:48.000 It's better.
01:15:49.000 You don't want to fight stop from an eye poke.
01:15:51.000 So the fights will go on.
01:15:52.000 There'll be better fights.
01:15:53.000 It's a better product.
01:15:54.000 The same thing back then.
01:15:56.000 They were fighting with eight-ounce gloves, but there were horsehair in it.
01:16:00.000 And a lot of them were putting their glove in the spit bucket.
01:16:04.000 So making the horsehair wet so it would get real solid and you start to.
01:16:08.000 Guys would cut a hole in it and take their squeezy bottle, their water bottle, take that little straw part and stick it in there and squirt water into the horse hair and pat it down.
01:16:17.000 That's right.
01:16:19.000 That's what we thought.
01:16:20.000 That's what we started to do.
01:16:21.000 Remember Margarito?
01:16:22.000 He got caught.
01:16:23.000 Yeah, he got caught using plaster of Paris inside of his, or whatever it was, something that when it got wet would harden up like a rock inside of his hand wraps.
01:16:23.000 Oh, yeah.
01:16:33.000 Like hitting them with a brick. 0.99
01:16:35.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:16:37.000 That's why the rep, I mean, they would come and check your wraps.
01:16:41.000 They would mark it to make sure before the glove going on.
01:16:44.000 Because they were doing a lot of crazy things. 1.00
01:16:46.000 A lot of dirty shit. 1.00
01:16:47.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00
01:16:48.000 Well, Margarito got away with it long after people had already been checking things too, which is really crazy.
01:16:54.000 Yeah.
01:16:55.000 But, you know, you're always going to have cheaters.
01:16:58.000 That's just how the sport is.
01:16:59.000 I mean, you know, it's, again, when you call it a sport, there's got to be, there's got to be the prosciutto way of honor system and respect and so forth when you're talking about a sport.
01:17:14.000 Right.
01:17:14.000 But when it becomes away from a sport, then it becomes a money thing.
01:17:20.000 You get away from that prosciutto way of really a code of honor between warriors.
01:17:26.000 You know, back then, even the samurais, they're assigned to the dip, but there's a code of honor and they knew what they were there for.
01:17:26.000 Right.
01:17:33.000 Just like you know what you're going in there for, but now there's rules.
01:17:39.000 And either you go by the rules or don't do it.
01:17:42.000 Yeah, I mean, I think if people had a martial arts code of honor, it would be just as exciting and maybe more interesting.
01:17:50.000 So in agreement.
01:17:51.000 And you would also develop a lot better human beings.
01:17:54.000 Because instead of a bunch of kids imitating people talking trash, what you would have is a bunch of kids that imitate very respectful martial arts people.
01:17:54.000 Yes.
01:18:04.000 Very respectful, true martial artists.
01:18:06.000 Very well put.
01:18:07.000 Yeah.
01:18:07.000 Absolutely.
01:18:08.000 It's there for self-defense.
01:18:10.000 It's not to be aggressive.
01:18:13.000 And self-improvement.
01:18:15.000 You know, that's the other thing.
01:18:16.000 It's like my instructor had a saying that martial arts was a vehicle for developing your human potential.
01:18:23.000 And I never forgot that.
01:18:25.000 I was like, if you could get great at martial arts, you could get great at anything, at anything.
01:18:30.000 It's really just a matter of taking that knowledge that you learned about yourself and going through the fire and learning how to be a great martial artist.
01:18:39.000 And you could apply that to anything.
01:18:41.000 It's supposed to be a way of life.
01:18:43.000 It's supposed to teach you about honor and dignity and respect and so forth.
01:18:43.000 Yeah.
01:18:48.000 That's basically what it was all about.
01:18:50.000 Yeah, that's what it's supposed to be about.
01:18:52.000 Yeah, and even though it's about defending, self-defense is defending, instead of, you know, being a striker, it's learning how to defend it, sleeping and moving and defending.
01:19:04.000 But it got turned around and it became striking, you know, instead of learning how to, because I would put my money on a good defensive fighter than a striker, because it's easy to go out there and strike, but if you don't know how to defend, striking back at you.
01:19:25.000 Well, one of the most humiliating things for a fighter is they think they're a good striker, and then they get in there with someone who has impeccable defense, and they can't hit him at all.
01:19:25.000 Right.
01:19:32.000 And then they get confused.
01:19:34.000 They get countered.
01:19:35.000 Yeah, they get countered.
01:19:36.000 They get confused.
01:19:37.000 And, you know, it's also what caliber of fighter are you training with, which is probably one of the most important things for young fighters to understand.
01:19:46.000 You will imitate the atmosphere of your gym, period.
01:19:50.000 And the level that is the top guy at your gym, that is the level that everybody aspires to.
01:19:55.000 If you are training with a bunch of champions, you're training with a bunch of high-level guys, you will aspire to be at that high level.
01:20:02.000 If you are the toughest guy in your gym, if you're the best guy in your gym and you're not a world champion, you're not the best in the world, you're just pretty good, like you're not going to grow in that gym.
01:20:11.000 You got to get out of that gym.
01:20:12.000 You got to get out of that gym.
01:20:14.000 You got to go find people that are going to test you and put you in danger and put you in a position where you're going to have to learn and grow.
01:20:20.000 And that's the only way.
01:20:21.000 And that was the advantage of training at the jet center.
01:20:26.000 We have people coming from all over the world, all over the country.
01:20:29.000 You had nothing but people that you had to aspire for.
01:20:33.000 You had to reach for the stars, you know what I mean?
01:20:35.000 Make it happen.
01:20:36.000 And with condition being the name of the game, you know what I mean?
01:20:39.000 So, you know, and from time to time, there was wars in the gym.
01:20:43.000 You know what I mean?
01:20:44.000 But there's other times where there was, you know, we're going to learn today.
01:20:47.000 You're not just going to start swinging from left to right.
01:20:50.000 Well, it was the mecca of kickboxing.
01:20:52.000 And like I said, like when I was living in Boston and when I was kickboxing in Boston, people would talk about the jet center with like hushed tones, like, you got to get to the jet center.
01:21:02.000 Because I was telling people I was moving to L.A. They're like, oh, you're going to move to L.A. You've got to go to the Jet Center.
01:21:07.000 And I knew about it.
01:21:08.000 I was like, oh, like one of the first things I did.
01:21:10.000 Like one of the first things I did, I showed up for work.
01:21:13.000 I did all the things that I had to do.
01:21:14.000 I was working on this TV show.
01:21:16.000 Then I went to Van Nuys.
01:21:17.000 I was like, I got to go sign up.
01:21:20.000 Come on.
01:21:22.000 Hey, Joe, so you mentioned that, and you know, because you could sling them pretty good yourself.
01:21:28.000 Oh, yeah.
01:21:29.000 You leaned over and ripped the body shot to that one guy you were sparring with.
01:21:34.000 He went down on one knee. 0.99
01:21:36.000 And if I'm not mistaken, you mentioned, man, I thought, holy crap, I'm going to get shot in the parking lot. 0.97
01:21:42.000 Yeah. 0.96
01:21:43.000 And then he walks up to you and he taps your glove and he says, good shot.
01:21:47.000 Yeah.
01:21:47.000 You see what I'm saying?
01:21:48.000 I remember that.
01:21:49.000 I was nervous sparring those dudes.
01:21:51.000 But that was part of why I had them there.
01:21:55.000 You know what I mean?
01:21:55.000 Yeah.
01:21:56.000 Because at the end of the day, it's not about violence.
01:22:01.000 And that was giving them that lesson that they needed to learn.
01:22:06.000 Yes.
01:22:07.000 During that time of their life.
01:22:07.000 You know what I'm saying?
01:22:09.000 And now we've grown it into something now where we've done over 200 sporting events with rivals.
01:22:14.000 Yeah.
01:22:16.000 Tackle football games.
01:22:18.000 Handball.
01:22:19.000 Softball games.
01:22:21.000 People need to learn that the division that we have with each other, we look at us versus them. 1.00
01:22:26.000 It's mostly bullshit. 0.99
01:22:27.000 It's not real. 1.00
01:22:28.000 It's like they're just human beings, just like you're a human being, and it's way better for them to be your friend than for them to be your enemy. 0.98
01:22:34.000 There's no need to have enemies like that for no reason whatsoever other than tribal gang bullshit. 0.97
01:22:41.000 It's not real. 0.97
01:22:42.000 It's like, and the thing about martial arts is it teaches you the real battle is inside yourself.
01:22:46.000 The real battle is learning and growing.
01:22:48.000 And unfortunately, with young men, like there's this desire to show how hard you are and that you're macho, but you don't have any skills.
01:22:58.000 You're not really macho.
01:22:59.000 So you have to like posture and be louder than everybody else.
01:23:03.000 And martial arts teaches you, like, man, your battle is in the gym tomorrow.
01:23:08.000 Like, you could get back in there tomorrow and get better.
01:23:12.000 And then learn why you got hit and then get better.
01:23:14.000 And learn why you're throwing your left hook wrong or why you're throwing your round kick wrong and train it and work on the bag and put in your time.
01:23:21.000 And you're going to learn and grow.
01:23:22.000 And then you're going to realize, like, I've been fighting my own self for this whole time.
01:23:27.000 I've been fighting nonsense.
01:23:28.000 And I've been making enemies that don't exist.
01:23:32.000 We had a guy that came into the gym, six foot three, 230-pound Mexican-American, which was a rare commodity back in 1980.
01:23:42.000 And he had just done five years on a manslaughter and he wanted a box.
01:23:47.000 So I started working with him.
01:23:49.000 Not long after, I get a phone call, and it's a parole officer.
01:23:52.000 And he says, hey, I hear you're dealing with Alex.
01:23:57.000 And I said, yeah, I'm dealing with him.
01:23:58.000 And he's doing just great.
01:24:00.000 I said, you know, I'm a private entity, and I'm going to work with this guy.
01:24:03.000 I don't got to chase him.
01:24:04.000 He's in the gym all the time.
01:24:06.000 And so I took him to the Diamond Belt.
01:24:09.000 He won it.
01:24:10.000 Took him to the Golden Glove.
01:24:11.000 He won it.
01:24:12.000 Took him to the state title.
01:24:13.000 He won it.
01:24:14.000 He earns the right to go to the Nationals in Beaumont, Texas.
01:24:16.000 Is this Alex Garcia?
01:24:17.000 Alex Garcia.
01:24:19.000 So I was his trainer manager at that time.
01:24:22.000 Oh, wow.
01:24:23.000 All them years.
01:24:24.000 Take him to the world.
01:24:25.000 He earns the right to go to the World Box Off, wins the World Box Off, goes to the World Games, fights who?
01:24:31.000 Teofilo Stevenson.
01:24:33.000 Oh! 0.60
01:24:34.000 Six foot seven Cuban that was a three-time Olympic gold medalist.
01:24:38.000 Alex fights him for the gold on ABCR World Sports.
01:24:41.000 Wow.
01:24:42.000 And he doesn't win.
01:24:43.000 But he lost to Teofilo Stevenson from Cuba, and he wins the silver medal, and he's the first in the Hispanic community, Mexican-American, to win a medal or to fight in even that category.
01:24:56.000 That's a weight division.
01:24:58.000 I remember I was just talking to my friend Joey Diaz, who's Cuban, and we were talking about Teofilo Stevenson, that that was the guy that they were trying to get to fight Muhammad Ali when he was in his prime because they were like, you know, Muhammad Ali might be the best in the world, but he might be the second best.
01:25:12.000 Because this is this cat in Cuba that is a bad man.
01:25:16.000 And Teofilo Stevenson was a bad man.
01:25:19.000 He was so good.
01:25:20.000 But he was just locked into Cuba and locked into that amateur program and we never got to see him fight professionally.
01:25:26.000 And back then they wouldn't let them fight pro.
01:25:28.000 Nope.
01:25:29.000 Fidel Castro would not allow that.
01:25:31.000 And didn't he come out with Muhammad Ali in the cover of Time magazine?
01:25:31.000 Nope.
01:25:35.000 Like they were kind of teasing people with that fight?
01:25:38.000 Perhaps.
01:25:39.000 I mean, there was a lot of talk about it.
01:25:40.000 I remember in the 70s and the 80s, there was a lot of talk about that, about him fighting, you know, and then him, you know, him eventually defecting and coming over to America, but it never happened.
01:25:51.000 But the thing with Alex, that showed somebody that's gone away and come back home can make it.
01:25:58.000 If he could win the silver medal for the United States of America in the World Games when we had boycott at the Olympics, that was just part of the proof.
01:26:09.000 And so now when you're getting guys into union jobs, you're getting guys with tattoo removal that's going on.
01:26:16.000 You're doing advocacy in the courtrooms and you're just being able to roll out, there's education going on, and there's a response to yellow tape, the CVI, the community violence intervention programs that are now nationwide.
01:26:33.000 They've become a movement.
01:26:34.000 And when you say tattoo removal, you're talking about gang tattoos.
01:26:37.000 Yeah, tattoos, but yeah, mostly just things of people's past that holds them back.
01:26:42.000 Right, right.
01:26:43.000 Yeah, so now There's another thing that's going on with tattoos, you know, where it's a no-laser removal.
01:26:51.000 There's some new technology and stuff that I'm talking to people about that you don't have to go through to get in laser and ow and ooh, and you can hear that laser going off.
01:27:03.000 So, what's it about?
01:27:04.000 It's about meeting the needs of people.
01:27:06.000 It's about touching lives.
01:27:08.000 You know what I mean?
01:27:09.000 It's about showing them another way and having the ability to open up a door that they can get through.
01:27:16.000 A path.
01:27:17.000 Absolutely.
01:27:18.000 That's the thing about a lot of people.
01:27:19.000 They don't know how to make the first step.
01:27:22.000 They've made some mistakes in their life.
01:27:23.000 Their life is kind of a mess.
01:27:24.000 They don't know the first step.
01:27:25.000 The beautiful thing about a fighting journey in a gym is it allows you, a martial arts dojo, allows you a path.
01:27:32.000 You go in there, you start, there's some rules.
01:27:35.000 I'll see you tomorrow.
01:27:36.000 Like, okay, I'll see you tomorrow.
01:27:37.000 And then you're in there tomorrow, and then you start getting a little better.
01:27:40.000 And then you learn growth and you understand, like, if I work towards something, I could build towards something.
01:27:45.000 And now I'm seeing progress, you know, and now I've got a brown belt.
01:27:49.000 You know, now I've got a black belt.
01:27:50.000 Now, I'm a, I could tell people I'm a black belt.
01:27:53.000 Like, like, I did something, I accomplished something.
01:27:56.000 And I think that's one of the great things about belt systems in traditional martial arts is it gives you a sense that you've got a.
01:28:02.000 There's a rite of passage like you've made, you've gone through this thing and now you've moved to another level and now you you're supposed to behave like you are at a different level.
01:28:11.000 Now you're a senior student, now you know, now you're one of the elite students in the gym, you're held to a different standard.
01:28:18.000 It's very important for people you know, absolutely a lot of times what happens is a lot of a lot of them come in with a lot of emotions anger fear, frustration and especially at the JET, with the JETS gym, we were able to tap in and put fear to them in a in a sparring way that it will bring up all that emotion up.
01:28:40.000 And then we had a chance to reprogram that.
01:28:44.000 That was the best part about the gym is to bring up what everybody hides until you're threatened.
01:28:51.000 Right hey, once you're threatened, I don't care what you hide under your bed in your closet will come up, and then you get a chance to reprogram the way you're perceiving it, the way you're looking at it, and help them to uh heal, not not uh, pat it or forget it or act like it doesn't heal it, so that it doesn't stop them on their journey.
01:29:14.000 And that's what the JET Center was all about is being able to bring that up, mirror their truth, help them look at their really uh, what they're really all about, and continue, let them go on their journey.
01:29:29.000 And that's why the JET Center was so successful, because we had a chance to really mirror their truth and bring all that that they hide and bring it forward.
01:29:39.000 And they felt safe enough, they felt to actually go there.
01:29:45.000 Yeah, and you get to see them go through that and develop real confidence.
01:29:49.000 Yes, instead of this bravado, this false confidence trying to make people feel like you're confident and scare them off, you develop silent confidence where you really know how to fight.
01:29:59.000 True, that's true.
01:30:01.000 So that's what.
01:30:01.000 That's what makes the art you know so unique but so needed.
01:30:09.000 And in the art, it gives you a foundation to build on and in your life and no matter what and we've had all walks of life that come through the JET Center, all walks I mean.
01:30:24.000 And the ones that I mean, we had so many different attorneys coming in and we used to call them the fighting attorneys, but there were six, seven of them and they would, you know, in the gym.
01:30:37.000 They were so humble to each other, they love each other.
01:30:39.000 They go outside, all of a sudden, they don't know, they don't know each other.
01:30:43.000 I said, What's wrong with you?
01:30:44.000 You just finished spotting with them, working with them.
01:30:47.000 And they said, He's an attorney.
01:30:49.000 I said, And but it was uh, it was, it brought character out of them, it brought their heart and let them mirror the really truth on their journey and what they were where they were going.
01:31:01.000 It's special for an attorney to step into that world and be around both these young gang members that are learning a new path and then professional fighters.
01:31:10.000 And, like, you know, you're in a different world of discipline and willpower and focus that will help you in everything you do.
01:31:21.000 Will help you as an attorney, will help you as a doctor, will help you in anything you do.
01:31:25.000 And certainly help you as a human, as a human, just get through life.
01:31:30.000 There's nothing that's going to be harder in life than other than the loss of a loved one.
01:31:35.000 Nothing going to be harder than your hardest training session at a real fight gym.
01:31:39.000 It's just that is that makes the rest of the world easy because your hardest thing you volunteered to do and you look forward to doing it again.
01:31:48.000 And you do it every day. 0.96
01:31:49.000 When you could do, like, I always tell people, martial artists are some of the nicest fucking people you'll ever meet in your life. 0.95
01:31:55.000 They're some of the nicest people because they don't have anything to prove. 0.77
01:31:59.000 Like, when I introduced my friends to like guys, I'm like, what do you like?
01:32:03.000 We were talking about George St. Pierre yesterday.
01:32:05.000 I was introducing someone to George St. Pierre.
01:32:06.000 I'm like, what do you think he does?
01:32:07.000 He's like, I don't know, seems like a nice guy. 1.00
01:32:09.000 I'm like, that is one of the baddest motherfuckers that ever walked the face of the earth. 1.00
01:32:12.000 He's a two-division UFC world champion, one of the greatest of all time. 0.99
01:32:17.000 They're like, no way.
01:32:18.000 I'm like, yeah, I mean, like, he's like, how you doing, my friend?
01:32:21.000 Like, super nice, super friendly.
01:32:23.000 Like, yeah, he's got nothing to prove.
01:32:25.000 There's nothing to prove.
01:32:26.000 So he can be a nice person.
01:32:28.000 He could be a nice person and not feel weak.
01:32:31.000 He can be himself.
01:32:32.000 Yeah.
01:32:32.000 Yeah.
01:32:33.000 Hey, Joe, so you know, you may mention right now one of the hardest things to do is lose someone.
01:32:40.000 And so for me, I wanted to share a little bit that in 2023, I got a phone call that was something that I could never anticipate.
01:32:50.000 It was January of 2023, and it was a call that was made.
01:32:55.000 One of my sons called to tell me that he had talked to a friend of ours that does a lot of work with the prisons, has a lot of entrees on big-time boards.
01:33:05.000 And that he was at one of the prisons.
01:33:08.000 And an inmate walked up to him and asked him if he knew me.
01:33:13.000 So he said, you know, do you know Blinky?
01:33:14.000 And he said, yeah.
01:33:16.000 He says, why?
01:33:18.000 And the guy says, because I'd like to talk to him.
01:33:21.000 And he said, well, why?
01:33:23.000 He said, because I'm the guy that murdered his son.
01:33:27.000 And so my son's telling me that our friend wanted to know if I would consider talking to him on the phone.
01:33:35.000 So I had just entered into a season of fasting and praying.
01:33:39.000 Me and my wife now were going to celebrate 10 years for you, you know.
01:33:46.000 And I said, I don't know.
01:33:48.000 I was grappling, Joe.
01:33:50.000 I was grappling.
01:33:52.000 I was fighting with it.
01:33:54.000 And then I heard a gentle voice, and it was, say yes.
01:33:59.000 Say yes.
01:34:00.000 So I called my son back and I said, tell him I said yes, but I don't want to talk to him on the phone.
01:34:07.000 I want to see him in person.
01:34:10.000 And so that's exactly what happened.
01:34:12.000 On January the 30th, we drove up to the prison and we get there.
01:34:18.000 And first we stop and get something to eat and then we get to the prison and the CO is right there waiting.
01:34:24.000 And when we get there, he says, yeah, well, come on through.
01:34:29.000 And so me and this guy went through.
01:34:34.000 And he says, Yeah, you know, we don't normally have meetings on Monday, but everything's fine.
01:34:39.000 We're going to be okay.
01:34:40.000 So they walk us through.
01:34:41.000 We walk through, get out to the back door, and there's the yard, the yard, the barbed wire, everything's right there.
01:34:50.000 We start walking.
01:34:51.000 We go into a building to the left.
01:34:53.000 Now, I thought I was going to be talking to somebody behind glass.
01:34:59.000 But it turns out that they're asking me, What do I think about this room?
01:35:04.000 And I'm like, in my mind, why are they asking me?
01:35:09.000 What am I thinking about this room?
01:35:11.000 You know what I mean?
01:35:12.000 Because, you know, that's up to them.
01:35:15.000 But I look down the hallway and there's a door.
01:35:17.000 I said, what's behind that door?
01:35:19.000 And the CEO tells me, he says, that's a chapel.
01:35:23.000 I said, can I see it?
01:35:25.000 We walk back down the hallway.
01:35:28.000 He opens the door and there's a podium right there and there's about 15 chairs.
01:35:34.000 So I said to him, Can we use this room?
01:35:37.000 And he said, yes.
01:35:38.000 So at that point in time, I need to go to the restroom.
01:35:42.000 So we walk out of the building.
01:35:43.000 He takes me to the restroom.
01:35:45.000 When we come back out, my friend, the one that was setting it all up, he's not there.
01:35:51.000 But there's an inmate.
01:35:52.000 I can hear him saying, Hey, Blinky, thank you for the letter to the parole board.
01:35:57.000 I got a date.
01:35:59.000 But I'm in another dimension, Joe.
01:36:01.000 I mean, I'm like somewhere else.
01:36:04.000 So a couple of minutes goes by, and I hear my buddy, and he says, Hey, Blinky, this is David.
01:36:11.000 And when I pivoted out, he was right here in front of me.
01:36:14.000 This guy that had killed my son.
01:36:17.000 And the words that came out of his mouth, Joe, I cannot even, I didn't have a second to try to digest it.
01:36:23.000 But he says to me, Can I get a hug?
01:36:26.000 And when he said, Can I get a hug?
01:36:28.000 I grabbed him and I embraced him and I began to weep.
01:36:33.000 I began to weep.
01:36:34.000 I began to cry.
01:36:35.000 I began to travail.
01:36:37.000 And he began to weep.
01:36:39.000 And that was a Holy Ghost moment where the Spirit of God was moving on that whole issue.
01:36:49.000 And we went from there into that chapel and we spent a little over two hours talking.
01:36:57.000 The CO that was there and my buddy, they were sitting in the corner of the room.
01:37:02.000 And as I'm talking to him and we're going over, because my wife, before I left the house, she says, remember, he was just a young guy.
01:37:09.000 You know what I mean?
01:37:10.000 He was probably confused back then.
01:37:12.000 So now I'm talking to him.
01:37:13.000 And now we're going over different things that took place.
01:37:16.000 And I hear that voice.
01:37:18.000 Tell him, talk to him.
01:37:21.000 So I said, okay.
01:37:22.000 I said to him, Can I have the privilege of leading you to the Lord?
01:37:29.000 And he said to me, Yes.
01:37:31.000 He says, yes.
01:37:32.000 Tears start coming out of his eyes.
01:37:34.000 I stepped a few feet over.
01:37:36.000 I put my hand on his right shoulder, over his heart, and I let him.
01:37:42.000 And he began with a contrite heart.
01:37:44.000 He began to weep and cry.
01:37:48.000 And I came to realize because it took me a long time to unpack that.
01:37:53.000 Once I left there and I came home and to the chair where I always sit to read.
01:37:59.000 And wow, it's like, what just happened?
01:38:01.000 What did I just do?
01:38:02.000 What just took place?
01:38:04.000 And at the end of the day, Joe, it was, I leave 99 to go get one.
01:38:11.000 And that's what I grasped, that one life, that one person.
01:38:16.000 So that's why I've always said since then that the power of forgiveness is more powerful than my left hook, and I had a good one, Joe.
01:38:24.000 Yeah, that he did.
01:38:26.000 I just, nice and short, man.
01:38:30.000 But the power of forgiveness, Joe, reconciles.
01:38:34.000 It gives you a chance, man, to rekindle the fire.
01:38:37.000 It gives you the opportunity, man, to live life without carrying a heavy yoke on your neck that people carry.
01:38:44.000 It's powerful.
01:38:45.000 I can't articulate to you in words what forgiveness is, but forgiveness is divine.
01:38:54.000 The love that's required, the humility that's required to forgive unconditionally.
01:39:01.000 And that's why I trust in Christ.
01:39:03.000 That's a beautiful story.
01:39:05.000 It really is.
01:39:05.000 That's a beautiful message.
01:39:07.000 And it's incredibly powerful of you to forgive that man and to be able to recognize that he made a horrible, horrible decision that affected your life and everyone around you.
01:39:18.000 But he's just a human being.
01:39:21.000 And we're all capable of doing something terrible if we're in the wrong environment with the wrong people around us and the wrong lifestyle, wrong decisions.
01:39:30.000 But we're all just human beings.
01:39:32.000 And that's why I'm still doing what I'm doing.
01:39:35.000 I had to say farewell to my brother Ben.
01:39:38.000 We owned the jet center together 50-50, man.
01:39:41.000 And it was just that type of calling, Joe, that said, go.
01:39:47.000 And so here I am now, 36 years later, you know, it's still jumping.
01:39:53.000 That's amazing.
01:39:54.000 And it's still working.
01:39:56.000 I went there 32 years ago.
01:39:58.000 That's when I first started.
01:40:00.000 That's when I made my way to L.A. That's when I first came to your gym and took your classes.
01:40:05.000 Do you still have a gym?
01:40:06.000 You know what?
01:40:07.000 Right now, I'm just doing a lot of traveling.
01:40:10.000 I'm writing my documentary right now and working on the documentary and so forth and just doing a lot of traveling.
01:40:16.000 I've seen a lot of videos online of you teaching seminars and teaching people, still doing a lot of that.
01:40:21.000 A lot of it.
01:40:22.000 Do you enjoy that still?
01:40:23.000 You know what?
01:40:24.000 I've always thought I was a better teacher than a fighter.
01:40:26.000 That's crazy.
01:40:29.000 You're one of the greatest fighters of all time.
01:40:31.000 The fighting I can do, but the teaching I love.
01:40:34.000 Really?
01:40:34.000 I love being able to get somebody and turn them inside out so they may look at their truth and see that we all have talent and we all have a gift.
01:40:45.000 It's just giving a chance to see that.
01:40:48.000 You know, I really take a lot of pride in seeing somebody that I can see that they doubt themselves, they hesitate about, and to go out there and really look at themselves and start to love themselves.
01:41:04.000 There's no better feeling to see somebody come up from being very meek and weak to something just so strong and doing something great for society and for that's amazing.
01:41:18.000 Do you ever get any professional mixed martial arts fighters that reach out to you for training?
01:41:24.000 Yeah, who have you trained with?
01:41:24.000 Absolutely.
01:41:26.000 Well, you know what?
01:41:27.000 Right now basically what I do is I don't talk about any of them.
01:41:34.000 I just work with them and everybody asked me, but I said, you know what?
01:41:40.000 I don't care who you are.
01:41:43.000 I care about what you would think that how I can help you with.
01:41:49.000 If it's mental, if it's physical, if it's spiritual, because when it comes down to it, 80% of it is mental.
01:41:55.000 20% of it is physical.
01:41:58.000 But 99.9% of that is spiritual, which is internal.
01:42:02.000 This is what I work with them on.
01:42:04.000 And so some of the fighters, I, you know, I said, I prefer not to know, you know, who you are, just other than what you want from me.
01:42:17.000 And from there, I can work with you on that.
01:42:20.000 And so a lot of people want me to go and see their fights, you know, Why they're cage fighting MMA and stuff.
01:42:29.000 And there was only one time I went, I believe.
01:42:34.000 I went one time because in the beginning there were great technicians in that cage, beautiful technicians, and it got lost.
01:42:44.000 It got lost somewhere around.
01:42:46.000 And then every once in a while you'll find somebody that stands out like a sore thumbs.
01:42:51.000 It's just beautiful technique.
01:42:53.000 And then you can see they really love what they're doing.
01:42:55.000 Well, the young guys coming up today are some of the most technical I've ever seen.
01:43:00.000 Yeah.
01:43:00.000 It's an amazing time because what we're seeing now is these kids that are in their 20s that, you know, the UFC really became popular in 2005 from the Ultimate Fighter.
01:43:11.000 So you're seeing kids that were really young when that was happening.
01:43:17.000 And they grew up watching Anderson Silva, John Jones, Vitor Belford.
01:43:22.000 They've grew up watching these elite fight Connor McGregor.
01:43:26.000 And now they are the newest version of that.
01:43:30.000 And the thing about martial arts that's so different is we really didn't have a chance to see mixed martial arts on television at all until 1993.
01:43:40.000 And so you're seeing this incredible.
01:43:41.000 There's no sport other than mixed martial arts where you look back at 1993 and look at it in 2026, and it's totally unrecognizable.
01:43:49.000 It's so much different.
01:43:51.000 But MMA, it is.
01:43:52.000 And these kids are so technical.
01:43:54.000 It's like we were talking about today.
01:43:56.000 The kids of today, they can do everything.
01:43:58.000 They could submit you.
01:44:00.000 They can take you down.
01:44:01.000 They can kickbox with you.
01:44:02.000 They could do it all.
01:44:03.000 They don't have a weak spot in their game.
01:44:05.000 And those are the elite young fighters of today.
01:44:08.000 And we're seeing a lot of those now.
01:44:10.000 A lot of them.
01:44:11.000 The only thing you can't coach is heart.
01:44:13.000 Right.
01:44:13.000 Right.
01:44:14.000 You can't coach heart.
01:44:15.000 I mean, you could teach it in a way they can learn it from the pain of not having heart and the shame of not having heart.
01:44:24.000 And you decide, I'm never going to be that person again.
01:44:26.000 Like, some people say, like, heart is either in you, you either have it or you don't.
01:44:29.000 But man, I don't believe that.
01:44:32.000 I think it's something that can be grown just like everything else, just like technique, just like everything.
01:44:37.000 Condition does a wonderful job, right?
01:44:39.000 But that's the journey.
01:44:41.000 The journey is finding that.
01:44:41.000 Yes, the journey.
01:44:42.000 That's the journey.
01:44:43.000 You know, the good, bad, and ugly shows up that it may teach you something about yourself.
01:44:47.000 Yeah.
01:44:48.000 And that's the mirroring of your truth.
01:44:51.000 What is it like for you two men as pioneers, like real true pioneers in the earliest days of martial arts in this country to see where it is today and to know that you started those first steps?
01:45:06.000 You know, it's for me to start something, but in the way of the Bushuda way, of the code of honor and respect and so forth, this is what I felt that we were doing, building up a way of life where warriors will fight with dignity and honor and respect.
01:45:31.000 And along the line, when actually my last fight was in 95, 94, I got my last fight.
01:45:41.000 And then it started to change because the Gracies came in in 90 and 195. 0.94
01:45:50.000 It started mixed martial arts all the way up to 2000.
01:45:53.000 And then cage fighting was huge.
01:45:56.000 Man, just everywhere.
01:45:58.000 But I wasn't really, I was following some of it, but I didn't like some of it.
01:46:08.000 It didn't leave a good taste.
01:46:10.000 And because when I saw some of these guys were on the ground, just pounding this guy on the ground, I thought, wow, was that me in the street once upon a time when I was young?
01:46:26.000 And I said, so a lot of it that I didn't want to take their livelihood from them because I didn't want to hurt them to the point where they couldn't make a living if they were married, if they were sick, you know.
01:46:42.000 So I always had that in my mind, in my heart, that to me it was a sport.
01:46:49.000 When somebody hit the ground, I said, get back up.
01:46:52.000 I pinned a lot of people, but to hit them on the ground, I just said, get back up.
01:46:58.000 Yeah, but it's an important part of fighting.
01:47:00.000 That's right.
01:47:00.000 Yeah.
01:47:01.000 That's right.
01:47:02.000 But again, you know, the fight game, again, there's a difference between the fight and the art of sport.
01:47:08.000 Because in the art of sport, I mean, you do a lot of that on concrete and wood, a whole different ball game on the mats, because there's two different flavors of understanding.
01:47:21.000 One protecting in the street and hitting that kind of ground and so forth.
01:47:25.000 Because a lot of times at the internationals, it was concrete.
01:47:29.000 That was in 64, 65, how we fought on concrete, taking down sweeps, but letting them back up.
01:47:36.000 There was a coat of honor, even though we swept and took them to the ground.
01:47:43.000 And some will reverse punch to the ground and then let them back up.
01:47:48.000 But again, I just think that sometimes when you're on the ground and there's somebody's livelihood, you know, you're thrashing.
01:48:01.000 And the idea, okay, I understand what it takes, you know, to hold that hand up as a winner and what it takes of the rules.
01:48:10.000 But I've always turned around when I see somebody jumping on something.
01:48:16.000 Yeah, that's understandable, considering in your day that was frowned upon.
01:48:21.000 Yeah.
01:48:22.000 But today it's one of the most important parts of the sport.
01:48:25.000 Yeah.
01:48:26.000 But as for me, I'll tell you, you know, you mentioned how it felt to be a pioneer, a true pioneer on the front end.
01:48:34.000 I feel privileged to be a part of that.
01:48:37.000 To be, I mean, it was such a robust time.
01:48:42.000 It was so exciting.
01:48:43.000 It was rich.
01:48:44.000 There was richness in the air.
01:48:46.000 We were thriving.
01:48:47.000 We were pushing.
01:48:48.000 You know, first it was the trip to Hawaii where we end up in a semi-comedy thing where if you don't knock them out, you're not going to win.
01:48:57.000 Well, by the way, when we got to the airport, Dana Goodson was caddying there. 0.99
01:49:02.000 He was taking the luggage and he seen us.
01:49:04.000 Hey, you guys double-team me.
01:49:06.000 You know what I'm saying?
01:49:08.000 But it was just, the atmosphere was rich.
01:49:12.000 It was thriving.
01:49:13.000 It was special.
01:49:14.000 It was a special time.
01:49:16.000 You know what I mean?
01:49:18.000 And so I didn't want to cheat the game because I knew for a fact the condition was king, being in tip-top shape.
01:49:26.000 Because it's one thing being in shape, but being in tip-top condition, man, you almost could radar what someone's going to throw.
01:49:33.000 You could catch it.
01:49:34.000 You could see it.
01:49:35.000 You could feel it.
01:49:38.000 So being on the front end, even though we got limited recognition, it wasn't always about the recognition.
01:49:46.000 It was about the art.
01:49:47.000 It was about life.
01:49:48.000 It was about how you treat people.
01:49:51.000 And I'm grateful, Joe.
01:49:52.000 I'm grateful because still today, it's about people.
01:49:56.000 It's about service.
01:49:58.000 It's about being able to open a door, give an opportunity, and touch a life.
01:50:04.000 In the same way, Benny's talking about the emotion and what that allows to happen to an individual's life.
01:50:14.000 Well, we're approaching it in a multi-pronged approach.
01:50:18.000 You see what I'm saying?
01:50:19.000 The basic needs of opportunity, that a lot of people don't get a second look.
01:50:24.000 It's just like next, next, next, you take the time to talk to them.
01:50:29.000 You know what I mean?
01:50:30.000 And I want to say this.
01:50:31.000 I want to say this.
01:50:33.000 You wear humility so extremely well.
01:50:38.000 I mean, I'm just saying, Joe, you know what I mean?
01:50:42.000 That's what I sense.
01:50:44.000 That's what I discern in my spirit.
01:50:48.000 And I've been running the race a long time, Joe.
01:50:51.000 I've been running the race a long time.
01:50:54.000 And there's an anointing that breaks the yoke of bondage.
01:50:58.000 There's an anointing.
01:51:00.000 And it flows, Joe.
01:51:02.000 And if I left here without saying that, I would be so disappointed in myself.
01:51:09.000 But anyways.
01:51:10.000 Well, my humility is honest.
01:51:12.000 I mean, I know who I am.
01:51:14.000 And I'm just a person like everybody else.
01:51:16.000 And the beautiful thing about martial arts is it teaches you that.
01:51:23.000 It teaches you who you really are.
01:51:25.000 Not image and what you're portraying.
01:51:28.000 What is your real spirit?
01:51:30.000 Like, what are you really capable of?
01:51:31.000 What can you really accomplish?
01:51:33.000 And who are you?
01:51:34.000 And you have to learn that.
01:51:36.000 And that's the beautiful thing about hard training and learning and competing.
01:51:42.000 You have to learn who you are.
01:51:44.000 That's the journey.
01:51:45.000 Yeah, it just doesn't come without loss. 0.99
01:51:48.000 It doesn't come without, you know, you have to go through some shit. 0.99
01:51:52.000 The good, bad, and ugly shows up. 0.99
01:51:54.000 Yeah, all of it.
01:51:55.000 It is a part of who you are.
01:51:57.000 And when you guys are seeing the sport, the crazy thing about your time was that there was no other motivation other than the journey because there was no money, there was no fame.
01:52:10.000 I mean, you obviously got a lot of notoriety and respect amongst martial artists and amongst people like me.
01:52:16.000 But the general public, you know, if I say, you don't know who Blinky Rodriguez and Benny the Jet are, they're like, what?
01:52:22.000 Who's that?
01:52:23.000 And martial artists know.
01:52:24.000 People who've watched the movies know.
01:52:25.000 People who saw Black Belt Magazine, they know.
01:52:28.000 But you were doing it in a pure sense.
01:52:32.000 You know, it wasn't just a vehicle to become famous.
01:52:34.000 It was because you were trying to figure out who's the baddest man on earth.
01:52:38.000 And there's only one way to find out.
01:52:40.000 True.
01:52:41.000 Yeah.
01:52:42.000 Truth speaks for itself.
01:52:44.000 Truth.
01:52:44.000 Truth speaks for itself.
01:52:47.000 So do you have a desire at all to have a gym now?
01:52:50.000 Do you ever think about what it was like when you had the Jet Center?
01:52:54.000 You know, there's something that I've been drawing in my mind just like when the Jet Center, I was drawing on toilet paper in Japan.
01:53:04.000 Actually, in Japan, and I had an idea.
01:53:08.000 And I started drawing on toilet paper because I didn't have anything else to.
01:53:12.000 So I started drawing the Jet Center.
01:53:15.000 And I told Blinky, I said, Blinky, this is our gym.
01:53:21.000 What do you think?
01:53:23.000 And he looked at me and he said, I dreamed about that.
01:53:30.000 After I showed him our toilet paper, this is going to be our next gym.
01:53:35.000 This is going to be the gym of what we're going to do.
01:53:39.000 And he had a dream about it right before that.
01:53:42.000 Really?
01:53:42.000 The Teo Plaza in Chinchiku.
01:53:44.000 I came downstairs.
01:53:45.000 He was already there to eat.
01:53:48.000 And he says, Blink, one day we're not going to lease or rent no more.
01:53:52.000 We're going to own this gym.
01:53:53.000 And he pulls his paper out and says, this is.
01:53:56.000 And he started pointing it out.
01:53:58.000 It's a cool steam room, sauna, cold plunge.
01:54:01.000 And he just started going through it.
01:54:02.000 And I'm looking at him.
01:54:04.000 And I'm smiling.
01:54:05.000 Ben says, hey, you think I'm crazy again?
01:54:08.000 I said, Ben, I dreamt that gym last night.
01:54:11.000 I dream it.
01:54:12.000 You know, wow.
01:54:13.000 And the proof is that it was what we said is when we walked into that bowling alley at 14540 Friar Street.
01:54:24.000 Yeah.
01:54:25.000 Right?
01:54:25.000 We closed a two and a half day escrow on that property with $4,000 down.
01:54:32.000 Wow.
01:54:32.000 And it was that we started a month later with the construction and building of it.
01:54:39.000 You can feel it in the building, man.
01:54:41.000 I remember very clearly the first time I walked in the room, I was like, wow.
01:54:46.000 I was like, I'm really here.
01:54:47.000 It's crazy.
01:54:48.000 Yeah, I didn't get too nervous entering the fight gyms, but that gym I got nervous because it's like the legendary history of it.
01:54:55.000 You guys really did something very, very special.
01:54:57.000 I was real sad when the roof got damaged and it went under.
01:55:01.000 I was like, man, this is the end of an era.
01:55:03.000 But to answer your question, I've been doodling again.
01:55:09.000 Oh, but I'm talking about a gym that will be a safe haven where people will come to learn their truth.
01:55:19.000 Learning defense, self-defense, but learning about themselves, mirroring their own truth, that they will be able to feel safe and to be able to release all that people or they've been taught these emotions of anger, fear, and frustration.
01:55:38.000 They get a chance to release it and feel comfortable and feel safe enough to do it, that they may go on their journey.
01:55:44.000 This is the next gym that I already started doodling on.
01:55:48.000 I didn't do it on point of toilet paper, but.
01:55:51.000 Actual paper this time.
01:55:52.000 Yeah, actual paper.
01:55:53.000 Where are you going to plan on doing that?
01:55:55.000 Actually, that's the key.
01:55:57.000 Location.
01:55:58.000 That's the key.
01:55:59.000 Because again, this one will be different than anybody's ever seen.
01:56:03.000 And it will be a place to come from all over the world to mirror their truth.
01:56:09.000 So do you think you're going to do that in California?
01:56:13.000 Maybe.
01:56:14.000 Maybe.
01:56:15.000 You know, I mean, born and raised.
01:56:19.000 Yeah.
01:56:20.000 You know, you can take the kid out of the country, but you can't take the country out of the kid.
01:56:27.000 So we're still, but right now, I already drawing.
01:56:33.000 I already finished drawing.
01:56:34.000 But hey, California could do something like that.
01:56:37.000 Yeah.
01:56:37.000 Really could.
01:56:38.000 Yeah.
01:56:38.000 Because I've already, believe it or not, I've already done nine pieces of equipment that nobody's ever seen.
01:56:46.000 Five machines that nobody's ever seen.
01:56:48.000 And it's all about mentally, physically, and spiritually endurance.
01:56:55.000 You know, to take you to the next level that you never thought you can get there.
01:57:00.000 So if you do something, when are you planning on doing it?
01:57:03.000 Well, right now, I'm just taking one day at a time because sometimes you go a jump ahead of your time.
01:57:12.000 A lot can happen in one day.
01:57:14.000 Yeah.
01:57:14.000 So I take it one day at a time, but I've already started it and we'll see where it goes.
01:57:20.000 I really can't answer you when, but it's on the making.
01:57:24.000 That's beautiful.
01:57:25.000 That makes me very happy because you've got a lot to teach people.
01:57:28.000 Both of you do.
01:57:30.000 And you with your outreach, you have a lot to teach people.
01:57:33.000 We've actually talked at one point about us buying a huge building and having a gym there, but also servicing people there, right out of there.
01:57:47.000 The people that come to our office for tattoo removal or moving their lives up the road a little bit.
01:57:54.000 All that comes with the programming of the different services.
01:57:57.000 I'm not going to inundate this broadcast with this, Joe.
01:58:01.000 But at the same time, we've had that conversation.
01:58:04.000 It is about humanity.
01:58:07.000 It is about people.
01:58:08.000 People need a place.
01:58:10.000 People need a place to come.
01:58:11.000 And they came from all over the world.
01:58:13.000 When they get a chance to hear something like this, they will come from all over the world to mirror their truth, to look at themselves, their purpose and reason why they exist, why they're here, what are they doing.
01:58:25.000 That's the kind of place, in my mind, is what I've designed in.
01:58:31.000 That's why I designed equipment and all that for this place.
01:58:37.000 Well, that makes me very happy that you're considering doing that.
01:58:40.000 I think that would be amazing.
01:58:41.000 And I think you're right.
01:58:42.000 I think people will come from all over the world to train there and to learn there.
01:58:46.000 And I really hope that happens.
01:58:49.000 I really do.
01:58:50.000 Gentlemen, thank you very much for being here.
01:58:52.000 It's an honor.
01:58:54.000 Thank you, Joe.
01:58:55.000 Thank you.
01:58:55.000 My pleasure.
01:58:56.000 Absolutely.
01:58:56.000 Thank you.
01:58:56.000 It's good to see you again.
01:58:57.000 And see you too.
01:58:59.000 It's good to see you.
01:58:59.000 Absolutely.
01:59:00.000 You're still bobbing in with me.
01:59:02.000 Yes, sir.
01:59:02.000 Yes, sir.
01:59:03.000 Okay.