The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #175 with Shakur Stevenson

00:00:01.000 Joe Rogan podcast, check it out!

00:00:03.000 The Joe Rogan experience.

00:00:06.000 Train by day, Joe Rogan.

00:00:07.000 Podcast by night, all day.

00:00:12.000 Well, anyway, thanks for coming down here, man.

00:00:14.000 Appreciate it.

00:00:15.000 And congratulations on that standout performance against Tia Femo because that was a giant wake-up call for the entirety of boxing.

00:00:27.000 The level that you're on was it so high that you could be in there with a world champion, a world champion, and make him look a guy who beat legit guys, including Lomachenko.

00:00:41.000 It was a big victory for him.

00:00:43.000 And you made him look like he had no business in there.

00:00:45.000 Honestly, it's just hard work, dedication, and God-given ability.

00:00:52.000 God-given ability.

00:00:55.000 I think you have all that plus intelligence, plus you started real young.

00:01:01.000 And there's something about those dudes who start real young.

00:01:03.000 You grow up with that.

00:01:05.000 It's like in your central nervous system as you're a young child.

00:01:09.000 I mean, would you start boxing at like five?

00:01:11.000 I started boxing at five, but honestly, you could say the same for T.O. too, because he kind of started at like seven.

00:01:19.000 We both was kind of similar in like experience, but I just felt like with me, the God-given ability of my instincts always kick in.

00:01:30.000 Like when we fought, I felt like my brain just knew how to win.

00:01:36.000 Like it just, everything was just like my instincts kicked in and everything just took over.

00:01:41.000 Like I didn't even, it felt like an out-of-body experience.

00:01:45.000 Well, you're a very tactical guy.

00:01:48.000 Like, you know, there's a thing, one of the things I love about watching you fight is I love watching a guy who sets traps and who avoids damage.

00:01:57.000 And you are one of the absolute very best ever at setting traps and avoid damage.

00:02:02.000 You take so few punches in your fights.

00:02:04.000 There was that one fight where you decided, recent fight, where you decided to stand with that dude.

00:02:08.000 Who was that?

00:02:09.000 William Zapeta.

00:02:10.000 Zapeta's a tough guy, man.

00:02:10.000 That's right.

00:02:12.000 He is.

00:02:12.000 But you fought that in a different way.

00:02:14.000 Did you do that on purpose?

00:02:17.000 It was partly on purpose and partly to get his respect.

00:02:22.000 Because I really didn't have a choice but to get his respect.

00:02:24.000 Because if I'd try to outbox him and move around the ring, I probably would have made the fight harder than it had to be.

00:02:31.000 So I knew I got to make him respect me early.

00:02:36.000 And that's what I kind of like started the fight.

00:02:38.000 Hot.

00:02:39.000 Why would it make it harder than it had to be if you boxed him?

00:02:43.000 Because sometimes when you like a guy, like if you watch today's boxing, judges give the fight to mostly the guys that's coming forward.

00:02:52.000 If I'd have gone in there and bagging up and moving around the ring while he was more active, it probably would have looked as though he's winning the fight.

00:03:02.000 So I had to make sure the judges know who's winning.

00:03:06.000 So I kind of had to take some in order to give some in that fight.

00:03:11.000 It was a very unusual fight for you.

00:03:13.000 I saw an interview with you after that fight.

00:03:15.000 We're like, I'm not fighting like that again.

00:03:16.000 Fuck that.

00:03:18.000 Yeah, because I know like I see like the modern day, like the old school boxers and like the punishment that they taking.

00:03:26.000 And you'll see them today, they can't really talk as well as like the Andre Wars and the Floyd Mayweather who can talk good and still articulate things to their grand Terry's to their grandchildren, to their children.

00:03:42.000 And for me personally, it's like I want to make sure that I'm able to really speak well to my kids and my grandkids and all of that.

00:03:52.000 So taking punishment ain't for me.

00:03:54.000 Yeah, I support that 100% and I applaud fighters like you for setting an example for young fighters coming up.

00:04:03.000 Like defense and tactics and understanding the game is the most important thing.

00:04:09.000 These guys that want to put on an entertaining fight and just go in there and slug it out, like, man, you are giving up your brain for some people who don't give a fuck about you.

00:04:18.000 Oh, my God.

00:04:18.000 I got you.

00:04:19.000 That's the guy's on the truth right there.

00:04:21.000 I be seeing a lot of fighters nowadays where they stand there like punching bags and let people hit on them.

00:04:27.000 And you'll see them after the fight, they marked up.

00:04:30.000 And in a few years, I don't think that they're going to be able to speak as well as somebody like me.

00:04:37.000 No, there's a bunch of examples of that.

00:04:38.000 Obviously, we could all see it.

00:04:40.000 But, you know, it's a complicated sport.

00:04:42.000 And for people that don't understand the sport and don't appreciate the sport, they just see two dudes punching each other.

00:04:50.000 But they don't see subtle movements.

00:04:52.000 And you were doing this like half-out jab and then popping him with it.

00:04:57.000 And you could tell he had no idea it was coming.

00:05:00.000 It was so frustrating for Tia Fimo.

00:05:03.000 I was like, there was a bunch of times while I was watching.

00:05:03.000 It was watching.

00:05:06.000 I just was yelling out by myself in my house going, woo!

00:05:10.000 That check right hook.

00:05:12.000 Ooh!

00:05:13.000 It was so pretty, man.

00:05:14.000 You hit him with some pretty shots, but it was, it was just, you were just tuning him up.

00:05:19.000 It was a beautiful performance, man, because it was everything that I love in boxing.

00:05:23.000 Yeah.

00:05:24.000 Skill, movement, understanding, ring IQ, knowing what's happening.

00:05:29.000 And every time he would get fired up and try to take it to you, the most he could do is touch your body.

00:05:34.000 Yeah, that's all he was able to do.

00:05:37.000 Honestly, for me personally, I feel like I'm like the best fighter in boxing.

00:05:43.000 And I don't like mean this in no disrespectful way because I got a lot of fighters in boxing that I still watch to this day that I like.

00:05:50.000 And I'm like, okay, they're going to steal this.

00:05:53.000 Usik, I love Usik.

00:05:55.000 I love Usik.

00:05:56.000 I love Bavar.

00:05:57.000 I love them Eastern European styles.

00:06:00.000 But for me, I just feel like I'm a fighter that could do it all.

00:06:05.000 I can do it all.

00:06:06.000 Whatever needs to be done to get the job done, I can do that.

00:06:12.000 So some nights you might see I might outbox people.

00:06:15.000 Then some nights I might stand there and beat a guy up and beat them at their own game.

00:06:21.000 So I think for me, I'm the most complete fighter in boxing.

00:06:24.000 Well, that mindset is what you need, especially in a sport where you've dominated divisions.

00:06:29.000 Yeah.

00:06:30.000 Right?

00:06:30.000 So if you've dominated divisions and you're still looking to achieve a higher level, you can't just look at the guys that are your competitors.

00:06:37.000 Yeah.

00:06:37.000 Because at 135, it was so hard for you to get fights.

00:06:40.000 Yeah.

00:06:41.000 At 140, now, what are you going to do?

00:06:42.000 You just do that to Tia Fimo.

00:06:45.000 It scared a lot of people.

00:06:46.000 Yeah.

00:06:47.000 No one wants to look stupid.

00:06:49.000 I mean, TFEMO has had some good fights in the past and he's lost in the past, but he's never looked out of place.

00:06:56.000 Yeah.

00:06:56.000 And he looked out of place now.

00:06:58.000 It's crazy, though, because when I seen him, when he fought in New York on the Times Square card, I'm like, man, this dude is nice.

00:07:05.000 Like, I'm sitting there, I'm like, whoa, like, I couldn't believe how good he was.

00:07:11.000 But it kind of like just made me get up.

00:07:13.000 Like, I'm like, okay, I want to.

00:07:15.000 Yeah.

00:07:15.000 I want to see what he can do with me.

00:07:18.000 Right.

00:07:18.000 Because the way he made Arnold Barbosa look in New York was like, he just made him look like he's not on his level.

00:07:24.000 Well, he wasn't on his level, but then TFIMO's not on your level.

00:07:27.000 I mean, this is the beautiful thing about competitive sports, especially boxing, this one-on-one, which I think is the purest form of competition, boxing in MMA, is that you can show that as great as a fighter is, like, people could watch the Tia Fimo fight and have no idea how good he is.

00:07:43.000 And I would say, go watch the Barboza fight, go watch the Lomachenko fight, go watch many of his fights.

00:07:43.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:07:48.000 The guy was an excellent fighter.

00:07:50.000 Still is an excellent fighter.

00:07:52.000 But there are levels.

00:07:54.000 And the mindset that you have, I am the best fighter in the world, period, is what allows you to beat guys like that.

00:08:03.000 That and the hard work.

00:08:05.000 For sure.

00:08:06.000 Like I said, I'm God-given and I work super hard.

00:08:10.000 And I think the biggest thing that I don't get credit for is my discipline.

00:08:15.000 Like, I feel like I'm very disciplined when it comes down to making the sacrifices and making the life changes that I need to make in order to be 100% on Fight Night.

00:08:27.000 And I feel like a lot of people don't give me.

00:08:30.000 I mean, they don't know.

00:08:31.000 They don't know.

00:08:32.000 That's what I'm saying.

00:08:33.000 I'll be seeing fans tweet and they'll be like, oh, get off Twitter or get off social media.

00:08:37.000 But I'll be on social media right after I just left the gym.

00:08:41.000 I'm like, what's the problem?

00:08:43.000 Like, I'm just talking my talk on social media right now.

00:08:46.000 Like, let me live.

00:08:48.000 Well, people are always looking to criticize.

00:08:49.000 But there's no way you can have the kind of performances that you're having and not be locked up and not be locked in.

00:08:54.000 It's not possible, especially over 12 rounds.

00:08:57.000 Because, I mean, you know better than anybody alive the kind of discipline that it takes to be in the kind of condition that you have to be in to fight 12 hard rounds and put on a virtuoso performance.

00:09:09.000 So it's like, it's crazy, though.

00:09:11.000 Everybody, like, like, y'all love the performance because y'all got to see it that day.

00:09:16.000 But, like, for me, when I'm in the gym, it's still levels that I feel like I haven't got to shown to the world.

00:09:24.000 Like, I kind of only really shown like 70% of what I really could do.

00:09:33.000 And I feel like with that performance, it was just like, okay, this is like an okay day in the gym.

00:09:39.000 Like an okay day.

00:09:40.000 It ain't like my best day in the gym.

00:09:42.000 Like, I have like days in the gym where I'm like, ooh.

00:09:47.000 I don't know how I just did that, but I'm just like on point.

00:09:50.000 So it was a good day, though.

00:09:52.000 The thing is, you're getting better.

00:09:53.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:09:54.000 Yeah, that's the thing.

00:09:55.000 It's like those days that you have in the gym and this performance and the mindset that you have, like, it's still only not saying, I did it all.

00:10:02.000 Not seeing, okay, virtuoso performance, still only 70% of what you're capable of.

00:10:08.000 That's what takes a guy from being a very good fighter to being an all-time great.

00:10:13.000 Yeah.

00:10:14.000 And it's a matter of maintaining that over years and years and years that is so difficult for people.

00:10:21.000 And discipline is where that comes in.

00:10:23.000 Enthusiasm and motivation is great in the beginning.

00:10:26.000 A lot of people have enthusiasm and motivation in the beginning, but it's when you've been a champ for five years, six years.

00:10:32.000 You know, the grind of it all, the 12-week training camp away from your family.

00:10:38.000 People don't think about that.

00:10:40.000 Yeah, that's why I'm kind of glad that I got the all of the things that happened in my career where I had a little trials and tribulations happened early.

00:10:50.000 So when I had my hand problem and I had like a fight where I didn't perform as well as I wanted to, it kind of got me prepared for like now.

00:11:01.000 Now it's like I'm 100% on top of my game.

00:11:04.000 Like you're not going to be able to like beat me without me being like fully prepared.

00:11:11.000 Like you're going to have to be a bad dude to come in the ring and beat me.

00:11:15.000 Like, because I just don't see it happening with none of these guys.

00:11:19.000 Well, it's like how far you've gone, right?

00:11:21.000 Like you started off at five and been intensely focused for all these years.

00:11:26.000 How old are you now?

00:11:27.000 28. 28.

00:11:27.000 28.

00:11:29.000 Which is prime.

00:11:30.000 Yeah.

00:11:31.000 That's it.

00:11:32.000 Like 28 to like 34 is the best year.

00:11:36.000 But then again, you look at Terrence.

00:11:38.000 I mean, he's at an age where a lot of people say it's over, and he put on the performance of his career against Canelo.

00:11:46.000 I don't know how he does it.

00:11:47.000 He's like a different human being.

00:11:50.000 He's so smart.

00:11:51.000 If I'm honest, he is like the reason.

00:11:55.000 I'm not going to say he's the reason why I am who I am today, but he brought my game from like where it was at to like a very high level.

00:12:04.000 And he don't even realize like he done that.

00:12:08.000 Like me just being in the gym, able to watch him and pick up on like the little things that he doing, his bad days, his good days.

00:12:15.000 I'm seeing everything and like when he come out there on fight night, how prepared and how ready, how confident.

00:12:22.000 Like, honestly, that dude kind of put me into a whole different world now to where I'm like, oh, I can beat anybody.

00:12:33.000 I get in there with Terrence Crawford and if I could spar with him, I could, how you going to hurt me?

00:12:39.000 How?

00:12:40.000 How you going to beat me?

00:12:41.000 Like, I'm in the ring with the best fighter in the world.

00:12:44.000 One of the best of all time.

00:12:46.000 Yeah, one of the best of all.

00:12:47.000 And one of the most versatile of all time.

00:12:50.000 Yes.

00:12:50.000 Because that's a guy who switches up left, right.

00:12:53.000 There's nothing he can't do in a boxing ring.

00:12:55.000 Nothing.

00:12:56.000 Nothing he can't do.

00:12:57.000 And the way he sets people up.

00:12:59.000 We were talking during the podcast I did with him.

00:13:02.000 He did this one sneaky thing where he was throwing a straight left and then Canelo would go to counter and he would hook it right off of the punch.

00:13:11.000 Like on the extension, Canelo would lean back to counter and bop and catch him on the chin.

00:13:16.000 You could see it.

00:13:16.000 It's like, oh my God, that's pretty.

00:13:18.000 I've never seen him throw that punch until Canelo, though.

00:13:21.000 That's the crazy part.

00:13:23.000 Being in the gym with another guy who's an all-time great pound for pound best, that is so valuable.

00:13:31.000 And so many guys don't like that because they don't want to be the second best or they don't want to be in there with someone who's as good as them.

00:13:40.000 You know what I mean?

00:13:41.000 Like iron sharpens iron.

00:13:44.000 And for you to be a young guy who have a guy's, Terrence is what, 10 years older than you?

00:13:44.000 For sure.

00:13:49.000 Yeah.

00:13:49.000 Have a guy who's further down the path and be able to see him and absorb all that is better than any coach of the world.

00:13:57.000 Yeah, but it's been going on for years.

00:13:59.000 Like it ain't like just a new thing.

00:14:01.000 People don't understand.

00:14:02.000 Like when I was 19 years old, I was around Terrence.

00:14:07.000 I was at his house playing him in 2K.

00:14:12.000 We'll go to the gym, argue.

00:14:14.000 He really one of the most competitive persons I ever met in my entire life.

00:14:19.000 You have to be.

00:14:20.000 I just never, like, for me, I just know for a fact my game has up because of that dude.

00:14:26.000 Yeah.

00:14:27.000 It has to.

00:14:28.000 It's also, you're seeing this level that is so high in boxing.

00:14:35.000 Like, you can compare it.

00:14:36.000 You could go back and look at Sugar A. Leonard.

00:14:39.000 You can look at Purnell Whitaker.

00:14:40.000 You look at all these guys.

00:14:42.000 And you can compare Terrence to the people that the pundits sit down and say all-time greats.

00:14:47.000 Terrence is unquestionably an all-time greats.

00:14:49.000 He might even be better than them.

00:14:50.000 He might be.

00:14:51.000 He might be.

00:14:52.000 All due respect to the legends.

00:14:53.000 I agree with you.

00:14:54.000 He is that good.

00:14:55.000 He's that good.

00:14:56.000 I feel like there's a thing that was happening before the Canelo fight where a lot of people were sort of dismissing his previous opponents and saying he never beat anybody.

00:15:07.000 And Canelo's another level.

00:15:08.000 I know a lot of people bet a lot of money on Canelo.

00:15:11.000 I was like, that's not a good bet.

00:15:13.000 Man, it seemed like that's the thing in boxing to where it's like, if they don't know the opponents, if you're not fighting somebody that's like a bigger name, they make it seem like the opponents is not good.

00:15:27.000 That's like not true.

00:15:28.000 Because at the end of the day, it's low-level opponents that don't get the type of shine that the high-level opponents get, but they will beat the high-level opponent.

00:15:40.000 And are they really high-level opponents at this point?

00:15:43.000 Like, I don't know.

00:15:45.000 Well, there's hot, there's high-level, and then there's the elite of the elite, right?

00:15:49.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:15:50.000 There's always that.

00:15:51.000 There's like some guys that if they're in, like, I always said that about Roy Jones during his prime.

00:15:56.000 Like, everybody said Roy Jones didn't find anybody.

00:15:58.000 Not true.

00:15:59.000 Roy Jones just made everybody look like they weren't anybody.

00:16:04.000 For sure.

00:16:04.000 Because he was that.

00:16:05.000 He was so elite.

00:16:07.000 And that's kind of the problem that Terrence was facing up until the Canelo fight.

00:16:07.000 Yeah.

00:16:13.000 Because when a guy goes up two-way classes all the way up to 68.

00:16:17.000 He's crazy.

00:16:18.000 I mean, starts his career at 35.

00:16:18.000 Right.

00:16:20.000 He's crazy.

00:16:20.000 Last fight he fights at 68 and then puts on a virtuoso performance, virtual shutout.

00:16:27.000 Maybe Canelo won one round.

00:16:29.000 Yeah.

00:16:29.000 You know what I mean?

00:16:30.000 Then everybody has to shut the fuck up.

00:16:32.000 Yeah, he shut everybody up because you had to see, like, he used to say that he wouldn't fight Canelo.

00:16:38.000 Like, he used to be like, oh, Canelo's too big.

00:16:40.000 I wouldn't fight him.

00:16:41.000 Then, like, it's like out of nowhere, he had a change in mind.

00:16:44.000 And like, he just went and attacked the situation.

00:16:48.000 And it was a bad situation to be in.

00:16:50.000 Like, you're going to go fight somebody two-way classes higher, punch hard, bigger than you, and you're going to go do that.

00:16:57.000 So for me, he just dude is amazing.

00:17:01.000 He's amazing.

00:17:02.000 And another amazing example for young fighters, you know, incredibly disciplined, never out of shape, and has all his faculties.

00:17:11.000 Doesn't do anything, all his faculties intact, and he's leaving the game with 100%, no undefeated record, no questions asked, fought everybody.

00:17:11.000 He doesn't drink.

00:17:23.000 There's no one lining up to fight him right now.

00:17:25.000 He's older, and he did it all, and he came out unscathed.

00:17:30.000 Bye-bye.

00:17:30.000 That's my biggest goal.

00:17:32.000 It's a perfect goal.

00:17:33.000 My biggest goal is to leave boxing.

00:17:35.000 And when I leave boxing, be good enough.

00:17:41.000 Well, not good enough, great enough financially to where I don't ever have to get back in the boxing ring.

00:17:45.000 Like, I don't want to be one of them fighters that's like need boxing.

00:17:50.000 Like, I hate that.

00:17:51.000 Like, that's my biggest pet peeve.

00:17:53.000 Like, long as I'm having fun with boxing, I want to be doing it.

00:17:56.000 But once it's not fun no more, I don't want to have to like, oh, we got this $20 million payday.

00:18:05.000 I need it.

00:18:06.000 And I don't want to feel that way.

00:18:08.000 Like Floyd.

00:18:08.000 Yeah.

00:18:09.000 Like the situation that Floyd's in right now.

00:18:11.000 This is crazy.

00:18:12.000 I was having a conversation with a friend of mine right now, and he's like, why is Floyd fighting again?

00:18:16.000 I go, because he needs money.

00:18:17.000 He was like, what?

00:18:18.000 How?

00:18:19.000 Floyd made more money than anybody ever.

00:18:21.000 It's like, yeah, but he spent more money than everybody ever.

00:18:25.000 Yeah, I try to stay out of that because I don't know the real situation with Floyd because I'm not really in tune on it.

00:18:33.000 But the only thing with Floyd that's kind of weird to me is like he loved boxing so much.

00:18:40.000 Like you got to actually be around him.

00:18:42.000 Like, he wants to be in the gym.

00:18:44.000 He wants to like.

00:18:46.000 So it'd be hard for me to just believe like, okay, he's just dead broke.

00:18:50.000 Like, I don't know.

00:18:51.000 It's hard to believe that.

00:18:52.000 Well, if he's not dead broke, he's definitely got issues.

00:18:58.000 Right?

00:18:58.000 Yeah.

00:18:59.000 So he's got a bunch of lawsuits where he owes money.

00:19:01.000 You know, Logan Paul says he owes him money.

00:19:04.000 He owes money for some other things.

00:19:05.000 I don't know.

00:19:06.000 I'm with you.

00:19:07.000 But it's also, it's like, I like a guy like Andre Ward.

00:19:07.000 I don't know.

00:19:11.000 I like a guy who goes out on top.

00:19:13.000 And, you know, they offered Andre a ton of money to come back and fight Canelo after Canelo beat Kovalev.

00:19:18.000 Yeah.

00:19:19.000 And he was like, you know what?

00:19:20.000 I think I serve boxing better as a commentator and a spokesperson for the sport.

00:19:24.000 I made plenty of money.

00:19:25.000 I'm undefeated.

00:19:26.000 Two division world champion, Olympic gold medalist.

00:19:29.000 Bye-bye.

00:19:30.000 That's it.

00:19:31.000 All faculties intact.

00:19:32.000 No worries about his brain health and everything like that.

00:19:35.000 That's the way to go out.

00:19:36.000 Andre Ward is another dude who helped my career.

00:19:40.000 Yeah.

00:19:40.000 He helped my career a lot too.

00:19:44.000 If I had to, if I need a, if I need something, right?

00:19:47.000 Let's say I need something and I need to figure out how to do it or what to do in a situation with weight or whatever it is when it comes to boxing.

00:19:57.000 If I'm calling Andre Ward, he's going to give you the best explanation.

00:20:01.000 Like out of all the guys, like he explains things from detail.

00:20:06.000 Like he's going to detail in and make me really understand what I got to do.

00:20:11.000 Like Andre Ward is somebody who I looked up to since a kid.

00:20:15.000 So he another guy.

00:20:16.000 I just wasn't around him enough in a gym as I was around Bud.

00:20:21.000 But like Andre Ward was my favorite fighter as an amateur.

00:20:24.000 Oh, really?

00:20:25.000 Yes.

00:20:25.000 Well, most people don't know that Andre Ward fought most of his career with one arm.

00:20:30.000 Yeah.

00:20:30.000 Which is crazy.

00:20:32.000 Which is crazy.

00:20:33.000 That one arm is his best arm.

00:20:35.000 He's left-handed for real, for real.

00:20:37.000 But it's still crazy.

00:20:39.000 It's still crazy.

00:20:39.000 It is.

00:20:40.000 Think about all the guys he beat, and he beat them with a left hand.

00:20:43.000 Yeah.

00:20:43.000 And then finally got shoulder surgery and then had a right hand and still kind of fucked up.

00:20:49.000 It's not 100%.

00:20:50.000 You know the misconception about his career?

00:20:53.000 I feel like when he beat Kovalev, people don't realize how good Kovalev was.

00:21:00.000 Oh, he was good in the day.

00:21:01.000 Like he was insanely like power, boxing, length.

00:21:08.000 He had everything.

00:21:09.000 A great jab, a great right hand.

00:21:11.000 Yeah.

00:21:11.000 And for Andre Wood to go beat that dude, that put the stamp on like his career.

00:21:17.000 And got dropped.

00:21:18.000 Yes.

00:21:18.000 Got dropped and hurt and recovered and still won.

00:21:21.000 I mean, that was big.

00:21:22.000 Yeah, Kovalev.

00:21:23.000 People see Kovalev when he lost to Canelo.

00:21:26.000 He was already kind of washed.

00:21:28.000 Yeah, he was already washed.

00:21:29.000 He'd been drinking a lot.

00:21:31.000 There was a lot of, you know, a lot of these fighters, they get to, like we're saying, it's sustaining that will, that drive, that discipline, that focus.

00:21:39.000 It's hard to do.

00:21:41.000 But if you go back when he had it, man, when he was in his prime and he was a world champion.

00:21:46.000 He was fucking everybody up, man.

00:21:47.000 He was a killer.

00:21:48.000 And he was scary.

00:21:49.000 Yeah, he was a killer.

00:21:50.000 Scary right hand.

00:21:51.000 Woof.

00:21:52.000 Yeah.

00:21:52.000 He was a pissed off.

00:21:53.000 I'll go back and watch him, too.

00:21:54.000 He's another guy that I'll go back and watch.

00:21:56.000 I like the way he keeps his distance.

00:21:57.000 He keeps his distance really good.

00:21:59.000 He got that Eastern European, like, them guys are really good boxers.

00:22:03.000 Like, when I watch them, I'm like, okay, like, I love watching Bival.

00:22:06.000 Bival's amazing.

00:22:08.000 I love it.

00:22:08.000 He's got such an amazing style.

00:22:10.000 I mean, him, Usik, Lomachenko's kind of a cat.

00:22:15.000 That's a fight I really wish would have happened between you and him, man.

00:22:19.000 Did there ever talk about that?

00:22:21.000 I messed myself up.

00:22:23.000 I kind of did this to myself, so I understand why a lot of fighters wouldn't fight me.

00:22:30.000 A lot of fighters wouldn't fight me because I sparred them.

00:22:34.000 I messed myself up.

00:22:36.000 When I was trying to spar him at that time, I never thought it would be a day of me and him fighting.

00:22:42.000 I didn't think that far down the line.

00:22:44.000 I really was just thinking he was the best fighter in boxing, number one pound for pound.

00:22:49.000 I want to be able to go get in a ring with him and see what like how I can do.

00:22:53.000 Like they told me they wasn't even going to pay me for the sparring.

00:22:56.000 I'm like, okay, I'm cool.

00:22:57.000 I don't want to get paid.

00:22:59.000 I'm just here to get in the ring with Limachenko.

00:23:02.000 But years later, yeah, the fucking.

00:23:05.000 How did that go?

00:23:07.000 How the sparring went?

00:23:08.000 I think, see, I don't diss nobody in sparring, so I can't say that.

00:23:14.000 We don't have to diss him.

00:23:16.000 I'll keep it real with the sparring.

00:23:18.000 I felt like I was outboxing him, but I also knew the level he was on was like his conditioning.

00:23:27.000 And that's when it made me like, okay, I got to be in like tip-top conditioning.

00:23:31.000 Because the first day we sparred, we did six rounds.

00:23:35.000 I felt like it was like, okay, I can outbox him.

00:23:39.000 The next time we sparred, he made me do 12 straight.

00:23:41.000 Really?

00:23:42.000 So he made me do 12 straight.

00:23:42.000 Yeah.

00:23:45.000 For the first eight, I'm good.

00:23:46.000 Like, I'm good for eight.

00:23:49.000 But like, the last four rounds, I want to say, he started picking up the pace.

00:23:53.000 And he ain't get off on me, but he got the better of the last four rounds.

00:24:00.000 And you feel like it was because of fatigue a little bit.

00:24:02.000 Yeah, it was for sure because of fatigue.

00:24:04.000 But it wasn't like the skills.

00:24:06.000 Like, skillfully, I felt like I was the better fighter.

00:24:09.000 Like, I felt like my range and my distance and my speed was kind of better than his.

00:24:15.000 But like, from a standpoint of being in shape and throwing more punches, I felt like he was kind of.

00:24:22.000 But he was getting ready for his fight.

00:24:23.000 I was getting ready for my fight too.

00:24:26.000 Well, that's a very valuable learning experience, right?

00:24:29.000 You mean, better to learn it then than to learn it in a fight.

00:24:29.000 Yeah.

00:24:33.000 Yeah, but for real, for real, it messed me up because now it's like, if I'm Lemichenko and I know he was, what, 126 pounds at the time?

00:24:45.000 He was a kid.

00:24:47.000 Now I see him all grown up.

00:24:48.000 He bigger, stronger.

00:24:51.000 And I seen what he was doing as a kid, I'd probably be like, why would I test the water with him?

00:24:57.000 Like, I wouldn't really want to see that guy.

00:24:59.000 That's not the guy I would want to see.

00:25:01.000 That's funny.

00:25:04.000 So you think that those sparring matches were the reason why you never got a fight with him?

00:25:08.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:25:09.000 I was surprised T.O. fought me.

00:25:12.000 Honestly.

00:25:13.000 I was very surprised.

00:25:14.000 Did you spar him as well?

00:25:15.000 Yeah.

00:25:16.000 Yeah.

00:25:16.000 But when we sparred, we only did three rounds.

00:25:19.000 But he made it seem like he kind of got off on me.

00:25:23.000 But honestly, I felt like I was the better fighter.

00:25:27.000 Well, T.O.'s a very headstrong guy.

00:25:29.000 He's very tough, very confident guy.

00:25:29.000 Yeah.

00:25:32.000 I mean, look, when he beat Lomachenko, that was a standout performance.

00:25:36.000 He had that piston jab, man.

00:25:37.000 Oh, he was sharp.

00:25:38.000 He was sharp.

00:25:38.000 I watched that fight a thousand times before my fight.

00:25:41.000 Well, I just think he knew that Lomachenko was a ghost.

00:25:44.000 He was so hard to hit.

00:25:46.000 And just he came out explosive.

00:25:48.000 He looked so good at that.

00:25:49.000 Lomachenko had a speed to like get his respect.

00:25:56.000 Like, I feel like T.O. was kind of faster, and he knew, like, from a speed standpoint, he was going to use it to his advantage.

00:26:02.000 Also, T.O. was a lot bigger and he was dangerous.

00:26:05.000 Like, he was throwing danger with every punch.

00:26:07.000 Even that jab had danger behind it.

00:26:09.000 It was crazy.

00:26:10.000 I felt like he was strong when I was fighting him.

00:26:12.000 Oh, he's strong as fuck.

00:26:14.000 Everybody think that he wasn't, but I'm like, man, I ain't going to lie.

00:26:17.000 It was some shots, like, I would catch on the glove and I'd be like, I don't know what you're doing in your training, bro.

00:26:26.000 I'm kind of solid.

00:26:27.000 But look at the size of that motherfucker.

00:26:28.000 I mean, he's jacked.

00:26:29.000 He looks great.

00:26:30.000 He's ripped.

00:26:31.000 Yeah.

00:26:31.000 He's just, but, you know, he's not done.

00:26:34.000 And a fight like that with you is a wake-up call for a guy like him, too.

00:26:38.000 It's like, man, I got to type it.

00:26:40.000 It's 50-50, though.

00:26:41.000 It's 50-50 because sometimes it can play with your mental.

00:26:45.000 So some guys don't be the same after getting embarrassed in front of the world like that.

00:26:50.000 Well, he's come back before, like the Kombosis fight.

00:26:53.000 Kombosis dropped him early, and that was a crazy upset.

00:26:57.000 Yeah, but it was different.

00:26:59.000 Because in this instance, he got really embarrassed.

00:27:02.000 With Kambosis, it was like it was a 50-50.

00:27:05.000 He felt like he won the fight.

00:27:07.000 He left feeling that way.

00:27:09.000 But getting dropped by Kambosis.

00:27:10.000 Nobody saw that coming.

00:27:11.000 Nah, I didn't see that coming either.

00:27:13.000 I ain't going to lie.

00:27:14.000 I think it was like second round, too, right?

00:27:14.000 For sure.

00:27:16.000 It was a first round.

00:27:17.000 But T.O. was fighting dumb.

00:27:18.000 I've never seen T.O. even fight like that either.

00:27:21.000 He went in there like just trying to knock him out from the first round.

00:27:24.000 I think after the Lomachenko fight, he felt like this dude is not on my level.

00:27:28.000 I'm the best fighter in the world.

00:27:30.000 You know, that can fuck with your head too.

00:27:31.000 Overconfidence can fuck with your head.

00:27:34.000 Yeah.

00:27:34.000 I'll be trying to like, with, I'll be trying to like stay away from that.

00:27:38.000 Like, because I'm very, like, confident in myself.

00:27:42.000 So I be scared of being too confident.

00:27:45.000 So I be trying to like make guys bigger in my brain.

00:27:49.000 Like, oh, this guy is, he's the truth.

00:27:51.000 So that's smart.

00:27:52.000 Yeah, I got to.

00:27:53.000 Like, I don't have no choice because I'm very confident.

00:27:56.000 We've all seen fighters that go in unprepared and think that a fighter is not on their level.

00:28:00.000 And then that guy puts up Buster Douglas and Mike Tyson.

00:28:05.000 Perfect example.

00:28:06.000 42-1 underdog.

00:28:09.000 And it was a perfect storm because Buster's mama just died.

00:28:13.000 And Buster was always one of those guys that was known to be super talented in the gym.

00:28:18.000 Super talented, but not dedicated.

00:28:21.000 Just not driven.

00:28:22.000 Just didn't make the most of his talent.

00:28:25.000 But for that one fight, he was like, I'm fighting Mike Tyson.

00:28:28.000 I'm not scared of him.

00:28:29.000 My mom is dead.

00:28:30.000 I'm putting in the fucking work.

00:28:32.000 And he came out throwing that jab with the hook off the jab.

00:28:36.000 Pop, whap, pop, whap.

00:28:37.000 And it was a totally different Buster Douglas.

00:28:40.000 Like the best Buster Douglas we've ever seen ever.

00:28:43.000 Yeah.

00:28:43.000 That final combination when he knocked Mike Tyson out, dude, I didn't even watch that fight live.

00:28:49.000 A friend of mine told me about it.

00:28:50.000 I was like, are you fucking serious?

00:28:52.000 He told me at the gas station.

00:28:54.000 He's like, Buster Douglas knocked out Mike Tyson.

00:28:56.000 I was like, what the fuck are you talking about?

00:28:59.000 And then I went home and watched it.

00:29:01.000 And even while I knew that Buster Douglas had won, I expected Mike Tyson to get up and kill him.

00:29:08.000 I was like, I can't believe this is happening.

00:29:10.000 That's how much of an upset that was.

00:29:12.000 Yeah, that was definitely one of the biggest upset.

00:29:14.000 I think I don't know because I wasn't during that time, but from what I've seen, it just looked like Mike didn't expect him to be that good.

00:29:24.000 Like, it was a shocker.

00:29:26.000 I think it was a shocker for everybody.

00:29:27.000 Yeah.

00:29:28.000 Well, that's.

00:29:29.000 But that's boxing.

00:29:30.000 That's what can happen in the sport.

00:29:31.000 I done seen that happen plenty of times.

00:29:33.000 And honestly, it'd be some guys that I see in the gym that I'm like, bro, if you do that stuff on fight night, bro, you'll probably be champion of the world.

00:29:45.000 Like, it's a lot of gym fighters who really got talent, but when them bright lights come on, a lot of fighters be kind of different.

00:29:53.000 And what do you think that is?

00:29:55.000 I think it's pressure.

00:29:56.000 I think it's nerves.

00:29:58.000 I think it's like it's a lot.

00:30:00.000 It's a lot.

00:30:01.000 Because I know I felt it.

00:30:02.000 Like, I felt it for my fight with T.O.

00:30:04.000 I felt pressure.

00:30:05.000 I felt all of that kind of stuff.

00:30:07.000 But I'm too tough.

00:30:10.000 Like, I know my mental ain't gone.

00:30:13.000 It's me or that person at the end of the day.

00:30:15.000 My life or your life, and I'm going to choose my life when it comes down to it.

00:30:19.000 So I was good, but I know it's a lot of fighters that I see in the gym and I'm like, man, I don't understand how you don't perform like this on under the lights.

00:30:30.000 There's always guys like that.

00:30:31.000 There's always guys that are potential world champions in the gym.

00:30:35.000 And, you know, some people bank on them.

00:30:37.000 And some, you know, you go, this guy just needs a mental coach, needs something to get him over that hump.

00:30:43.000 But it's always interesting to me because what is the difference between a guy who could just walk out there on fight day and perform at 100% of his ability versus a guy who gets dwarfed by the moment?

00:30:56.000 The moment comes, the big pressure.

00:30:58.000 It's all mental.

00:30:58.000 Yeah.

00:30:59.000 It's all in your head.

00:31:01.000 What you thinking and what you believe in and the things that's going on in your brain is what's going to come out.

00:31:01.000 Yeah.

00:31:07.000 Like, I'm already telling myself, like I said, I tell myself it's either me or him.

00:31:13.000 So my life or your life.

00:31:15.000 And one of us got to go.

00:31:18.000 Yeah.

00:31:19.000 One of us got to go.

00:31:21.000 But what do you think is going on?

00:31:23.000 I mean, everybody experiences pressure.

00:31:25.000 Everybody experiences nerves.

00:31:27.000 But what is it about fighters that are so talented that let that overcome them versus fighters oftentimes that maybe not even as talented, but they rise to the occasion when those lights are on?

00:31:39.000 When those lights are on, there are fighters that fight better.

00:31:42.000 Like, sometimes they look shit in the gym.

00:31:44.000 And then when those bright lights are on.

00:31:46.000 I've had moments like that.

00:31:48.000 I done had moments where I'm like, man, I felt bad in the gym.

00:31:51.000 I don't know what I had this camp.

00:31:54.000 This was a horrible camp.

00:31:55.000 And then the fight night comes and I'm like, on point.

00:31:58.000 Well, you know, that's what they said about Ali when he fought George Foreman.

00:32:01.000 They said he looked terrible in the gym and everybody was nervous about him, but he had a strategy.

00:32:06.000 I think with like some fighters is fear.

00:32:08.000 Like I think it's fear of like losing or fear of the negative happening.

00:32:12.000 And I think with some fighters, they allow fear to control them.

00:32:16.000 Yeah.

00:32:17.000 As in some other fighters who, if I get fearful, I'm going to tack my fears.

00:32:23.000 Like I'm not scared to even go and give it a try.

00:32:27.000 Whatever happened is going to happen at the end of the day.

00:32:29.000 Already already.

00:32:31.000 Is this something that you built up over time, or is it something someone imparted on you when you were young and you embraced it?

00:32:38.000 Like, how did you learn to have that champion mindset?

00:32:42.000 I think it's wild to say, but I think it's really my little brothers and my little sisters, but really my little brothers.

00:32:51.000 I used to go to amateur tournaments, and if I lose and I got to come home to my little brothers, oh, they on me.

00:33:00.000 They on me.

00:33:01.000 And it's like, you got to come home and they remember the name of the opponent that beat you and they would throw it in your face.

00:33:08.000 Oh, don't make me go get Joseph Adorno.

00:33:10.000 That's a real guy that beat me back in the day.

00:33:12.000 Shout out to Joseph Adorno.

00:33:14.000 But I used to have to hear that in the house.

00:33:18.000 And now I still be with them.

00:33:21.000 So it's like, I know I got to go home to my little brothers and see them after these fights.

00:33:28.000 And I had that in the back of my head.

00:33:31.000 I'm not coming home to them without the win.

00:33:35.000 Like, they got us no.

00:33:37.000 Did you tell your little brothers that they do that for you?

00:33:39.000 No, I don't even think I ever said it to them.

00:33:42.000 It just was so natural because I used to always get in fights with them and they used to always bring up an opponent that beat me.

00:33:48.000 And I'm like, now if I beat everybody, they can't say it no more.

00:33:52.000 That's hilarious.

00:33:54.000 That's hilarious.

00:33:55.000 Well, because different fighters develop, you know, different ways of rising to the occasion, different ways of maintaining a championships mindset.

00:34:05.000 And some of them, they learn it from their coach, you know, Customado, famously trained Tyson and even hypnotized him and told him that you don't exist.

00:34:13.000 Only the task exists.

00:34:15.000 And he had Mike Tyson just like a fucking machine when he would get into that ring.

00:34:20.000 I think, shout out to my grandfather too, because my grandfather is my coach.

00:34:25.000 And like his energy during fight week, like it, they don't even realize like it wasn't even just the coaching that he was doing.

00:34:34.000 It's like the energy that he kind of gave off to me.

00:34:37.000 It reminded me of me when, like I was a kid and me and him would go to amateur tournaments and like he just so like amped up and like ready, and like it kind of brought on to me and it kind of got me like amped up as him like okay, I gotta, I got, I gotta stand on business for my grandfather.

00:34:56.000 I got to, I don't got no choice.

00:34:58.000 Oh wow, but he's definitely a great coach.

00:35:01.000 So family is a big thing for you.

00:35:03.000 Yeah, family is everything for me.

00:35:05.000 Like I enjoy spending time with my family.

00:35:08.000 Like I'm not like a lot of these boxers.

00:35:11.000 Like, with all due respect to them, they like the fame, the All that kind of stuff.

00:35:19.000 The cars, the I'm more so like, I get a big check.

00:35:23.000 I want to go on vacation with my family or go chill with my family.

00:35:28.000 And I don't like doing stuff.

00:35:30.000 Like, I enjoy spending time with my daughter.

00:35:32.000 That's great.

00:35:33.000 Like, I'm different.

00:35:34.000 I'm not like them guys.

00:35:36.000 That's so smart.

00:35:37.000 It's so smart because all that other shit just drains your bank account, distracts you from your goals, gets in the way of things.

00:35:46.000 It's like when I was a kid, I used to want the fame.

00:35:49.000 I used to be like, oh, I want to be famous.

00:35:52.000 I want everybody to know me.

00:35:54.000 But it's like once you get it, it's like, ah, I don't like this.

00:36:01.000 I don't like this.

00:36:02.000 Like, you go places, people pulling their phones out, and like, it's weird.

00:36:05.000 They're trying to record you.

00:36:07.000 Like, bro, why are you?

00:36:08.000 I'm just a regular person.

00:36:09.000 Like, that's how I feel.

00:36:10.000 Like, everybody bleeds.

00:36:12.000 We all the same.

00:36:14.000 We all human.

00:36:15.000 Right.

00:36:15.000 So I kind of move with that kind of thought process.

00:36:18.000 And I feel like a lot of people don't move with that.

00:36:21.000 Like, especially people in my position.

00:36:24.000 Yeah, you can get inflated.

00:36:26.000 Your head can get screwy.

00:36:28.000 It's like you got to balance two things at the same time.

00:36:30.000 One, you are the elite of the elite.

00:36:32.000 You are a world champion and one of the pound-for-pound best to ever do it.

00:36:36.000 And then on top of that, you're just a human being.

00:36:38.000 Yes.

00:36:39.000 And we're all just human beings.

00:36:41.000 But what we like, what people love about watching championship caliber fighters and championship performances in any sport is watching just a regular human do something extraordinary.

00:36:53.000 Yes.

00:36:54.000 And that gives us inspiration.

00:36:56.000 Like when I watch a great fight, I feel better for the rest of the day.

00:36:59.000 Like when I go to bed, I feel great.

00:37:01.000 Like I watched that fight.

00:37:02.000 I went to bed.

00:37:03.000 I was like, woo, I felt great.

00:37:05.000 I texted Josh right after, right, right after it was like, right after it was happening.

00:37:09.000 And that's how we got in touch.

00:37:11.000 Josh Dubin, shout out to Josh.

00:37:13.000 Shout out to Josh.

00:37:14.000 But I remember I'm like, dude, that was extraordinary.

00:37:18.000 And then next thing you know, we're on the phone.

00:37:22.000 Definitely was a great, great night, great night of boxing.

00:37:26.000 I enjoyed it.

00:37:27.000 I'm just glad to be here.

00:37:28.000 Like, all glory to God.

00:37:29.000 I'm glad to be here.

00:37:32.000 I've been here.

00:37:34.000 I've been here.

00:37:34.000 I've been telling people, like, I'm the best.

00:37:36.000 I'm better than these guys.

00:37:38.000 You have, but you needed that breakout.

00:37:39.000 You needed that breakout performance.

00:37:39.000 You're right.

00:37:41.000 And the problem is, everybody knew you were so good.

00:37:44.000 It was hard to get someone to sign up for that breakout performance.

00:37:47.000 Because for a breakout performance, you need another dude who's had breakout performances that everybody respects and knows.

00:37:52.000 Yep.

00:37:53.000 Like Tia Femo.

00:37:54.000 Yeah, that's why that was my main reason fighting.

00:37:56.000 I'm telling you, I watched him in Town Square.

00:37:59.000 I said, we fight him.

00:37:59.000 I looked.

00:38:02.000 We fight him.

00:38:03.000 I want to fight him.

00:38:05.000 He looked really good.

00:38:06.000 He looked really good.

00:38:07.000 That Times Square card was weird.

00:38:08.000 He was the best fighter on the car.

00:38:10.000 100%.

00:38:11.000 No question.

00:38:12.000 It looked like everybody was playing it safe on that card.

00:38:15.000 Yeah, it did.

00:38:16.000 It did.

00:38:16.000 Like Devin Haney, the Devin Haney fight was odd.

00:38:19.000 What I learned from that card, I felt like them fighters didn't have enough adrenaline pumping.

00:38:26.000 Like, I feel like Ryan, I know when he got in the ring, his adrenaline couldn't have been too high because it was like sparring.

00:38:36.000 Like, it was like not a lot of people there.

00:38:38.000 It wasn't like that much pressure.

00:38:40.000 You could hear everything somebody is saying.

00:38:42.000 I know Ryan heard me all night.

00:38:44.000 Like, he had to hear me.

00:38:45.000 I was cheering him on, like, telling him, like, man, throw the hook, throw the hook, throw the hook.

00:38:50.000 That was when he fought Roley, right?

00:38:51.000 Yeah.

00:38:52.000 Yeah, that was a wake-up call, too.

00:38:54.000 Like, that was another fight where people did not expect Roley to beat Ryan.

00:38:58.000 Yeah, I'd be throwing off.

00:39:00.000 I didn't expect it either.

00:39:01.000 That was one of the fights where I kind of like vouch for Ryan.

00:39:05.000 I'm like, man, he got skills.

00:39:06.000 He's a skillful fighter.

00:39:08.000 Then he got in there.

00:39:09.000 I don't know what he was doing.

00:39:11.000 Like, I didn't understand what was happening.

00:39:13.000 You know, it's one of them things where he has the fight with Devin.

00:39:19.000 He beats Devin, gets popped, you know, for whatever he was on, Osterine.

00:39:25.000 And then there's like, he's got a long time off.

00:39:28.000 There's a lot of people mad at him.

00:39:30.000 There's a lot of people, you know, which is such an unfortunate thing if you think about his performance against Devin because that was incredible.

00:39:39.000 Yeah, but the problem is he got caught.

00:39:43.000 He got caught.

00:39:44.000 Yeah.

00:39:44.000 So like, I don't know.

00:39:45.000 Like, for me personally, if you got caught, it's like, I can't really, me, I can't give you the credit for that.

00:39:52.000 Right.

00:39:53.000 I don't, I don't give him credit for that night with Devin.

00:39:57.000 Yeah, but steroids don't help you land punches.

00:40:00.000 I get it.

00:40:01.000 They help you recover in training.

00:40:02.000 They help you train a little harder.

00:40:04.000 They might give you a little bit more power, but that left hook was on point.

00:40:08.000 Yeah, but that little bit of more power probably wasn't enough to hurt Devin.

00:40:13.000 Because if you really watch the fight and pay attention to the fight, and people might not agree with me on this, but I feel like Devin was winning the moments that was quiet.

00:40:25.000 Like when people's not really, ah, Devin is winning most of the boxing match, but the moments where Ryan was so loud and everybody got to see him get hurt and knocked down to where I just feel like Devin...

00:40:42.000 if he didn't get dropped by them punches, he could have won that fight.

00:40:46.000 But he did get dropped.

00:40:48.000 And also.

00:40:48.000 That's the problem.

00:40:49.000 But what if the Astering was helping his power?

00:40:52.000 Yeah.

00:40:53.000 I mean, what was his last fight against Delgado?

00:40:56.000 Who was his last opponent?

00:40:58.000 Who?

00:40:59.000 Ryan.

00:41:00.000 Who's the guy he dropped?

00:41:01.000 Mario Barrios.

00:41:02.000 That's right.

00:41:02.000 Barrios.

00:41:03.000 Barrios is a guy that was like tailor-made for a guy like Ryan.

00:41:09.000 Like, he's a tough dude.

00:41:11.000 He's very durable.

00:41:12.000 Takes a good shot, but he's not that fast.

00:41:16.000 Yeah, and Ryan was super fast in that fight.

00:41:19.000 Yeah, he looked real good.

00:41:21.000 Yeah, he looked good.

00:41:22.000 He looked good.

00:41:23.000 Real good in that fight.

00:41:24.000 And it wasn't just like because people think when I'm saying, like, oh, well, you don't know whether he's cheating or not.

00:41:32.000 I'm not saying that in the aspect of his boxing skills.

00:41:35.000 Like, he clearly got boxing skills.

00:41:37.000 Like, you can clearly see Ryan know how to move his feet.

00:41:40.000 He knows how to keep his distance, use his long length.

00:41:44.000 He can clearly box.

00:41:45.000 I've been saying this for years.

00:41:47.000 Yeah, he boxes very well.

00:41:49.000 And also, he showed that he has a right hand, too.

00:41:52.000 Yeah, that was surprising.

00:41:53.000 Yeah.

00:41:54.000 And he used it like the whole night.

00:41:56.000 Like, he just kept throwing it.

00:41:58.000 So that was very surprising.

00:41:59.000 But I mean, of course, if you want to be a complete fighter, he had to develop a right hand and start using it more because that left hook is just world-class.

00:42:07.000 Yeah, and he was not only throwing it straight, he was throwing it around the guard.

00:42:11.000 That was kind of nice.

00:42:13.000 It was a beautiful performance for him.

00:42:15.000 Has there been any talk about you two matching up?

00:42:17.000 Yeah, it has.

00:42:18.000 But like I said, everything got to make sense.

00:42:21.000 Like, people don't understand that I walk around in my 40s.

00:42:26.000 So if I'm walking around in my 40s, I don't think me going to 147, like when I fight at 147, I think that will be my last weight class, like in my career.

00:42:39.000 Like I don't see myself going past 147 ever.

00:42:43.000 But I'm 28 right now.

00:42:44.000 I got a long way to go.

00:42:46.000 So I don't plan on moving to 47 no time soon.

00:42:50.000 So if the fight happens at whatever weight class that I say, then I'm cool with it.

00:42:56.000 Can he make 40 again?

00:42:57.000 He said he could.

00:42:58.000 He the one who came out and said, like, let's fight at 140.

00:43:02.000 He said that.

00:43:03.000 So if he said that, it's like, okay, you can make the weight, then let's do it.

00:43:07.000 What weight was the Javante fight?

00:43:08.000 Was that 140?

00:43:09.000 That fight was at 136.

00:43:11.000 That's right.

00:43:12.000 And then he gave him a rehydration clause, too.

00:43:14.000 Yeah, 10 pounds.

00:43:15.000 Yep.

00:43:16.000 Very smart.

00:43:17.000 Very smart.

00:43:19.000 Very smart, right?

00:43:20.000 I mean, yeah, it was in that situation, but I mean, I just feel like with the rehydration clause at that time, when you're already bringing somebody down to like a weight class that they haven't fought in years, it's like you could have not put the rehydration clause.

00:43:39.000 Like, it wasn't necessary at that point in time.

00:43:42.000 I think it was necessary.

00:43:43.000 I think it helped a lot.

00:43:44.000 It did.

00:43:45.000 It helped a lot.

00:43:46.000 If you can only rehydrate 10 pounds and you know he's way bigger than that, Ryan's a big guy.

00:43:51.000 He looked weak on fight night.

00:43:52.000 Like, he looked too weak.

00:43:55.000 But I guess those dollars, that paycheck was just too tempting.

00:43:59.000 Yeah, I didn't want to fight Javante.

00:44:01.000 I never understood that move.

00:44:02.000 I never understood it.

00:44:03.000 Because if I'm Ryan Garcia and I got a big name in the sport and all of that kind of stuff, why would I accept everything into somebody else's favor?

00:44:12.000 I think because that's the only way he could get the fight.

00:44:15.000 You know?

00:44:16.000 Well, well, this is the same thing when Canelo fought Floyd, right?

00:44:20.000 Floyd made him go down to 152.

00:44:22.000 Remember?

00:44:23.000 But it wasn't no rehydration clause.

00:44:26.000 Nope.

00:44:26.000 Was it?

00:44:27.000 No.

00:44:28.000 Even if there's not.

00:44:29.000 Floyd ain't never a rehydration clause, nobody else.

00:44:31.000 Well, that's good.

00:44:32.000 But if you make a guy get down to 152, even if you give him a rehydration clause, like that's going to drain something out of your tank.

00:44:39.000 But is it right?

00:44:40.000 Because my question is, wasn't they fighting at 154?

00:44:44.000 Wasn't Canelo fighting at 154?

00:44:45.000 Normally.

00:44:46.000 So he ain't got a struggle.

00:44:46.000 Yeah.

00:44:48.000 But you know that last, you're not a big weight cutter, but if you were, that last two pounds is death.

00:44:54.000 Oh, for sure.

00:44:55.000 When you're already drained out, because he was a big guy for 154.

00:44:59.000 And to drain out and get all the way down to 152, that had to be hard.

00:45:03.000 He didn't look the same on fight day.

00:45:05.000 You don't think so?

00:45:06.000 Well, I think Floyd was just a virtuoso that night.

00:45:09.000 I mean, Floyd looks so good.

00:45:12.000 That night, I don't think if he was 154, 160, I don't think he was beating Floyd.

00:45:19.000 I think you're probably right, but I also think Floyd was smart to get him down to 152.

00:45:23.000 For sure, the business.

00:45:24.000 Yeah, it's like every angle you can get, every advantage you can get is a good one.

00:45:31.000 I do agree with you about the rehydration clause.

00:45:33.000 Like, get out of here with that.

00:45:34.000 But we got to understand, too, right?

00:45:36.000 Because I get Floyd in that instinct.

00:45:40.000 If a guy is going to blow up to, let's say, what?

00:45:44.000 We'll just do me and Ryan Garcia, for example.

00:45:47.000 Okay.

00:45:48.000 I'm going to blow up like 148.

00:45:53.000 He's going to blow up 168 to 170.

00:45:58.000 Now it's like you're in a ring with somebody that is like 20 pounds bigger than you.

00:46:03.000 And Floyd still allowed Canelo to get big because he got big at the getting down to 152.

00:46:09.000 So it's like, I kind of feel it in a way.

00:46:12.000 Like I understand it.

00:46:13.000 Now, the rehydration clause is kind of crazy, but I will only do a rehydration clause for fighters if I go up to 147 pounds.

00:46:22.000 Because I'm not a 147 pounder.

00:46:24.000 So I fight at their weight class where they're comfortable.

00:46:28.000 Just make it easy for them.

00:46:28.000 Right.

00:46:29.000 Like, I don't.

00:46:30.000 Well, the thing about a fighter like you is it's just difficult to find big names.

00:46:36.000 I mean, if Gervante fights again, that's a big fight.

00:46:40.000 But that would probably be at 135, which you could probably still make easy, right?

00:46:44.000 Easy.

00:46:45.000 Yeah.

00:46:45.000 No problem.

00:46:46.000 So you have fights at 135 and fights at 140, but it's just going to be hard to get someone to step up that is going to be that big pay-per-view selling fight.

00:46:57.000 Yeah.

00:46:58.000 That's the problem.

00:46:59.000 That is the problem.

00:47:00.000 You're too good.

00:47:00.000 That's the problem.

00:47:01.000 You're too good.

00:47:02.000 Somebody told me that before I went pro before.

00:47:05.000 They was like, you're going to have a hard time in the pros.

00:47:07.000 I'm telling you.

00:47:09.000 But I understand it now.

00:47:09.000 Yeah.

00:47:11.000 Do you remember your first pro fight?

00:47:12.000 You remember what it felt like?

00:47:14.000 It felt like a whole new experience.

00:47:16.000 Really?

00:47:17.000 Yeah.

00:47:18.000 How so?

00:47:19.000 I've been when I was in the amateurs, guys wasn't as like dirty as the professionals.

00:47:27.000 Like, you don't get introduced into dirty boxing until you turn professional.

00:47:32.000 Didn't you get head-butted in your first fight?

00:47:35.000 He head-butted me, and that's what kind of purpose, right?

00:47:38.000 Not an accidental headbutt.

00:47:40.000 That's what kind of make me say, okay, I understand.

00:47:42.000 This is a whole different atmosphere.

00:47:45.000 It's not the same amateur and the pros.

00:47:48.000 And a lot of guys from the amateurs don't adjust to the pros as well as I did.

00:47:55.000 So, well, it's all about styles, right?

00:47:59.000 Like, there's some guys who have styles that are just much better for point fighting.

00:48:03.000 Wow, it's actually, um, you got to develop a lot of things like punch placement.

00:48:09.000 Like, punching hard is really a real thing in the pros.

00:48:13.000 Like, you got to have something to make somebody respect you.

00:48:16.000 That's why when I hear people say, like, I got pillow hands, I'm like, y'all clearly must not be watching.

00:48:23.000 Who's saying that?

00:48:25.000 It'd be a lot of people.

00:48:26.000 They say, I got pillow hands.

00:48:27.000 No, you just fight smart.

00:48:28.000 Yeah.

00:48:29.000 I don't understand it because it's like, if I had pillow hands, right?

00:48:33.000 Why guys don't just go in there and just knock me out?

00:48:36.000 Like, if I'm fighting somebody with pillow hands, I'm just going to put my shield up and just swing for the fences because they can't hurt me.

00:48:45.000 Like, right.

00:48:46.000 I don't understand why nobody won't do that if I got pillow hands.

00:48:49.000 You don't have pillow hands.

00:48:50.000 It's nonsense talk.

00:48:51.000 What you have is a boxing intelligence where you know when to hit full blast and when to just touch them up and crack them a little bit.

00:49:01.000 And the accumulation of blows, the frustration, the mental confusion that a fighter gets when they can't hit you and you can hit them.

00:49:10.000 And then you start ramping it up and then you start tuning them up.

00:49:13.000 I mean, it's people that the people that are saying that just don't understand what you're doing.

00:49:17.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:49:18.000 What you're doing is just perfect.

00:49:20.000 You're fighting intelligent.

00:49:22.000 And that's what I love.

00:49:23.000 I love watching a guy just outbox the fuck out of somebody.

00:49:27.000 I love it.

00:49:28.000 Like I said, that like you were doing this like half-speed jab and then from right there, pop!

00:49:34.000 And you could tell T.O. was like, Jesus Christ.

00:49:37.000 You could tell he was confused.

00:49:38.000 It was so fast.

00:49:40.000 It was too fast.

00:49:41.000 It was so fast.

00:49:42.000 But that accumulation of blows over time.

00:49:44.000 And his corner, it was crazy.

00:49:46.000 Did you listen to the fight?

00:49:47.000 Like, did you go back and watch it?

00:49:49.000 I went back and watched it.

00:49:50.000 His corner is like, you got to hit him.

00:49:52.000 Like, what?

00:49:53.000 It's so crazy, though, because, like, what I see with his corner is, like, he's been doing this.

00:49:59.000 Like, his dad been getting in the ring and giving him numb type of instructions.

00:50:04.000 But T.O. has been always so good to where the instructions he's giving them really does not matter because he's in control.

00:50:13.000 He's winning these fights.

00:50:14.000 He's doing what he's supposed to do.

00:50:16.000 But that night, he did need a real coach.

00:50:19.000 Yeah, he needed something better than that.

00:50:21.000 Yeah, well, not that his dad's not a real coach, but he needed some tactical advice.

00:50:25.000 He needed some instruction on what this guy's doing to you, and you got to switch it up entirely.

00:50:30.000 You got to do something that confuses him.

00:50:32.000 His dad is used to something different.

00:50:34.000 That's why he went in there and said, Where's your power, bro?

00:50:40.000 He's used to T.O.'s power showing up and the amazing things that T.O. does in the boxing ring.

00:50:47.000 He's used to that.

00:50:48.000 But whenever you're going against somebody who's on a different level, also, you got to be well prepared within a game plan.

00:50:57.000 Yeah.

00:50:58.000 All that kind of stuff.

00:50:59.000 And I didn't see no game plan.

00:51:02.000 Did you know anybody that was in his camp or ask anybody after the fight?

00:51:05.000 Like, what was his game plan?

00:51:07.000 What did he think was going to be different?

00:51:09.000 Nah, I didn't actually.

00:51:10.000 I just.

00:51:11.000 I'd be interested to know that.

00:51:13.000 Yeah, I do too.

00:51:14.000 But I did run into him after the fight.

00:51:17.000 I ran into T.O. in the back.

00:51:18.000 Was he cool?

00:51:19.000 Yeah, he was cool.

00:51:20.000 It was actually a good conversation.

00:51:22.000 I felt bad that he was by himself.

00:51:24.000 His manager kind of cleaned it up.

00:51:26.000 But during the moment that I seen him in the back, he was by himself.

00:51:31.000 So I didn't like that.

00:51:33.000 Yeah.

00:51:34.000 No, that's a bummer.

00:51:34.000 I didn't like that.

00:51:35.000 Yeah.

00:51:36.000 But, I mean, they said they were with him all night.

00:51:38.000 So respect to them.

00:51:39.000 So maybe he just caught him in a moment when he was alone.

00:51:43.000 Yeah, that's the last thing you want to see is a dude who gets abandoned after a loss.

00:51:46.000 Like, oh, my God.

00:51:47.000 And then you got to go back to camp with those assholes.

00:51:50.000 I don't even like how the sport is kind of treating him now.

00:51:53.000 Like, everybody acts like he's just this terrible fighter.

00:51:57.000 Oh, that's crazy.

00:51:58.000 I don't understand it when you got to give him respect.

00:52:01.000 Like, this dude actually stepped up and fought a guy that nobody else wants to fight.

00:52:05.000 So he did it.

00:52:07.000 He got in the ring and laid it on the line.

00:52:10.000 It didn't go his way, but he did.

00:52:12.000 He tried.

00:52:13.000 The thing is, I don't know if that guy's ever going to separate from his father.

00:52:16.000 You know, I don't know if that guy ever is going to bring in another world-class trainer that maybe would be able to recognize some things that he's doing that he can improve upon.

00:52:24.000 You know, it's so crazy.

00:52:26.000 During the fight, he had a coach in his corner.

00:52:29.000 And I know the coach, he's from Florida, I want to say his coach was telling him some good advice.

00:52:36.000 I don't think he heard him or was listening to him, but he was telling him some good advice.

00:52:41.000 Really?

00:52:42.000 Yeah, I don't want to say what the advice is because I got future opponents I got to make sure.

00:52:47.000 Well, someone could go back and listen.

00:52:49.000 Yeah, I can't tell what the advice was, but he was giving him some good advice.

00:52:54.000 Interesting.

00:52:55.000 Yeah, it's hard.

00:52:56.000 Those father-son teams, there's always a lot of conflict with those.

00:53:02.000 Yeah, because I done watched it over the years.

00:53:04.000 I feel like dads like stay on top of a fighter and they like it, they make it less fun.

00:53:14.000 And I feel like that's why I think my granddad is one of the best coaches because he allowed me to love the sport of boxing myself.

00:53:22.000 Like, when I had my football games and my pop won the games, he came to my game, watched them, cheered on, supported me.

00:53:32.000 But as soon as I lost, I'm on the field crying.

00:53:36.000 I'm like, oh, he comes up to me, he say, you know, in boxing, you only could lose because of yourself.

00:53:47.000 And I'm looking, I'm like, what do you mean by?

00:53:50.000 I'm like, oh, that is true.

00:53:52.000 Because, like, you're the one in a boxing ring doing the boxing.

00:53:56.000 And when I lost that football game, he was basically trying to say it was my coach's fault.

00:54:05.000 So, like, he just allowed me to choose boxing, though.

00:54:07.000 Like, he always supported me when I did other things, but he kind of like he ain't just stay on top of me, like, hound me with it.

00:54:15.000 Like, right.

00:54:16.000 He just took me to the gym.

00:54:18.000 Well, you got to let a young man become his own man.

00:54:20.000 Yeah, he allowed me to choose it.

00:54:22.000 And I think fathers in the sport don't allow their sons to choose it too.

00:54:27.000 Like, they're choosing it for them.

00:54:29.000 Right.

00:54:30.000 And a lot of them are overbearing in the corner.

00:54:32.000 It becomes a problem.

00:54:34.000 Yeah.

00:54:35.000 And they kind of be coaches should listen to what I'm about to say.

00:54:39.000 The father coaches.

00:54:42.000 There has to be a difference between a father and a coach.

00:54:48.000 So when you're coaching your son, you have to be a coach in the boxing ring instead of the father.

00:54:54.000 Because when you're the father, they're going to reciprocate things wrong.

00:54:58.000 And I feel like with coaches, when you coaching, they can hear you a lot better.

00:55:07.000 Yeah.

00:55:08.000 Well, there's also the relationship with the father and the son where the father wants a son to listen to him.

00:55:12.000 Listen to me.

00:55:13.000 I'm your father.

00:55:14.000 You're going to do this.

00:55:14.000 You go out.

00:55:15.000 You're like, fuck the fuck off of me.

00:55:16.000 Yeah.

00:55:17.000 Fuck off me, dad.

00:55:18.000 And you doing more harm to your son than you're actually doing good for him.

00:55:23.000 Well, especially not giving him technical advice.

00:55:26.000 Like, that is where he needed real technical advice.

00:55:28.000 Yeah.

00:55:29.000 Because there was a lot of shit you were doing that he just did not have an answer for.

00:55:32.000 He didn't understand.

00:55:33.000 He didn't understand.

00:55:33.000 Yeah.

00:55:34.000 He didn't clean up his bad habits.

00:55:36.000 And that's the thing with these fighters.

00:55:38.000 A lot of them got bad habits and things that they do.

00:55:41.000 And I'm going to expose it.

00:55:43.000 Well, I mean, the environment that you came up in and having a guy like Terrence and having other elite fighters that you train with all the time, that's so important.

00:55:53.000 It's so invaluable.

00:55:54.000 Because all that shit gets exposed in the gym.

00:55:57.000 That's where you work on it at.

00:55:57.000 It does.

00:55:59.000 Yeah.

00:55:59.000 That's where you work on it.

00:56:00.000 If you ain't work on it in the gym, on fight night, it's going to be exposed.

00:56:04.000 There's no if, ands, or buts about it.

00:56:06.000 Yeah.

00:56:07.000 How important do you think an amateur career is?

00:56:11.000 Like, do you think a guy like Lomachenko maybe would have been an even better boxer if he didn't have so many amateur fights and went into the pros at an earlier age?

00:56:22.000 I think an amateur career is important because you got to have that experience.

00:56:29.000 But I done seen different to where like guys are developed a lot more in the gym.

00:56:35.000 Like I done seen guys stay in the gym, not go to tournaments, and they'll get better and better.

00:56:40.000 And then out of nowhere, they'll go to one tournament and then you'll be like, who the fuck is this guy?

00:56:46.000 Right.

00:56:46.000 Where did he come from?

00:56:47.000 How did he get so good?

00:56:49.000 And I think like developing in the gym is like the biggest thing.

00:56:53.000 Like who you sparring, who you training with, all of that stuff really matters the most.

00:56:58.000 The amateur experience is cool.

00:57:00.000 Like, oh, Lemachenko.

00:57:01.000 But if Lemachenko had different things around him in a gym, I feel like he probably would have been a better fighter.

00:57:08.000 Well, it's already good.

00:57:09.000 With Lomachenko, it's so crazy because he really should have been fighting at 126.

00:57:13.000 I mean, he really was never a 140-pound fighter.

00:57:16.000 He's a small guy.

00:57:18.000 Yeah, I don't understand that.

00:57:20.000 I didn't understand that because I think it kind of tarnished his career in a way to where, like, the way people look at him.

00:57:26.000 People don't look at him the same as they should because he was really, really good, but he was at a weight class that he really wasn't supposed to be at.

00:57:36.000 So, of course, you're going to have like a harder time with them bigger guys.

00:57:41.000 Right.

00:57:41.000 Like T.O.

00:57:42.000 Yeah, like T.O.

00:57:43.000 Yeah, that was a perfect example.

00:57:44.000 Tio was huge in that fight.

00:57:46.000 He looked so much bigger than Lomachenko and just so dangerous that it like fucked Lomachenko's strategy up.

00:57:51.000 Because, you know, you got missiles coming at you from a giant dude.

00:57:54.000 I mean, TO is stacked.

00:57:56.000 Yeah.

00:57:57.000 And so you got to think, like, for those guys, I guess it's just about chasing the multiple world titles and the bigger money at the higher weight classes.

00:58:07.000 Yeah, that's what with Lemachenko, though.

00:58:09.000 He acted like he wasn't really super money hungry.

00:58:12.000 So I never really understood.

00:58:13.000 It seemed like he's maybe, yeah, you're right.

00:58:16.000 He was chasing Undisputed.

00:58:17.000 Yeah, Undisputed and world titles.

00:58:21.000 I feel like he got robbed in a Devin Haney fight, though.

00:58:24.000 Do you think that?

00:58:25.000 To this day, yeah, I do think.

00:58:26.000 Yeah.

00:58:27.000 I scored the fight for Lemachenko.

00:58:29.000 Yeah, I did, too.

00:58:30.000 I watched it three times in a row because I was like, what am I getting wrong here?

00:58:33.000 Am I getting this wrong before I start talking about it?

00:58:36.000 And I was like, no, no, Lomachenko should have won.

00:58:38.000 Yeah, I thought Lomachenko won.

00:58:40.000 That was one of those where I was like, ooh.

00:58:42.000 And I think that fight fucked with Devin Haney's head a little bit.

00:58:46.000 Like, that makes you feel like shit.

00:58:48.000 When you win a fight and everybody thinks that you lost the fight and you got like, then you have to carry that around with you everywhere.

00:58:54.000 Everybody like, Lomachenko beat you.

00:58:56.000 You're like, no, he didn't.

00:58:57.000 Yeah, it's a mental battle.

00:58:58.000 Yeah.

00:58:58.000 It's a mental battle.

00:58:59.000 And then you got to get it back.

00:59:00.000 I think in that fight, he really wasn't even finding the best version of Devin because Devin was fighting at a weight class he really shouldn't have been at.

00:59:09.000 What was that fight at?

00:59:10.000 Was that 35?

00:59:11.000 Yeah.

00:59:12.000 And then Devin should have been at 140.

00:59:14.000 At that time, yeah, he should have been at 140.

00:59:16.000 He was too big for 35.

00:59:18.000 Yeah.

00:59:20.000 It's interesting, man, that balance of we're all fucked up in MMA because MMA, there's too few weight classes.

00:59:28.000 And so there's giant gaps, like huge gaps, like at 185 to 205, you know, 155 to 170.

00:59:36.000 There's no weight classes in between.

00:59:37.000 I mean, that's nuts.

00:59:38.000 Yeah, that's insane.

00:59:40.000 I mean, it's guys that's like little fighting bigger guys because it ain't enough weight classes for them to be in.

00:59:40.000 I agree.

00:59:49.000 So that sounds crazy.

00:59:50.000 It's stupid.

00:59:51.000 It's the one major complaint that I've had with the UFC for a decade.

00:59:56.000 I was like, we need way more weight classes.

00:59:58.000 And they're like, no, I want to keep it pure.

01:00:00.000 These are the champs.

01:00:01.000 There's only eight champs.

01:00:02.000 Like, no, that's crazy.

01:00:04.000 I need to start watching the UFC.

01:00:05.000 Oh, it's fun.

01:00:06.000 There's one this weekend in Vegas if you're around.

01:00:08.000 I'm going to watch some of it.

01:00:10.000 It's a good one.

01:00:10.000 I'm going to watch it because I'm lost.

01:00:13.000 I'm not really in tune with a lot of the UFC guys.

01:00:17.000 And the UFC people be kind of mad at me when I say boxing is better, but it's my sport.

01:00:23.000 Of course, you're going to think it's better.

01:00:24.000 It's what your life is based around.

01:00:26.000 Of course.

01:00:27.000 And if you talk to Max Holloway, he's going to say MMA is better.

01:00:31.000 Exactly.

01:00:32.000 And they got good explanations.

01:00:33.000 Like, I understand what they're saying.

01:00:35.000 Like, you could do, it's more like skills you got to learn in MMA.

01:00:39.000 But for me, I just feel like boxing, like the skill level and the talent for me, I like better.

01:00:46.000 Well, there is no question.

01:00:48.000 The skill level and the talent when it comes to punching is way better in boxing.

01:00:53.000 You see some sloppy shit that people do in MMA with boxing, but you also have to think they're thinking about takedowns.

01:00:59.000 They're thinking about getting kicked.

01:01:01.000 They're thinking about their calves getting kicked out from under them.

01:01:04.000 Their legs getting kicked.

01:01:05.000 Their body getting kicked.

01:01:06.000 They're just messing up.

01:01:07.000 They're punching.

01:01:08.000 Everything.

01:01:09.000 Knees, elbows.

01:01:10.000 And then there's stuff that you do in boxing that you can't do in MMA because your legs are exposed.

01:01:16.000 There's certain positions that you would throw punches in that a guy would just calf kick you.

01:01:21.000 And you get hit with one of those and you're like, oh, shit.

01:01:24.000 And all of a sudden, your calf is numb and you're not moving good and your ankle doesn't work.

01:01:28.000 It's terrible.

01:01:30.000 But that's the beauty of that sport is that it's so diverse.

01:01:32.000 But the beauty of boxing is that it's so concentrated on hand techniques that the boxing techniques in boxing are far superior than what you're going to see in MMA.

01:01:43.000 You see a few guys in MMA that could make it as pro boxers, but you don't see your level or, you know, or they can't be elite level.

01:01:53.000 No.

01:01:53.000 There's no way you can.

01:01:55.000 It's impossible.

01:01:56.000 No.

01:01:56.000 You ain't been doing it for long enough.

01:01:58.000 Just like you don't see these elite MMA fighters that could compete in jiu-jitsu tournaments and win world championships.

01:02:06.000 It's very, very rare.

01:02:08.000 The only way that happens is if they were a world champion in jiu-jitsu before they got into MMA and they still have those skills at a very, very high level, then some of those guys can kind of compete in world-class levels.

01:02:20.000 What would you say is the best skill in the MMA?

01:02:24.000 Wrestling.

01:02:25.000 Wrestling.

01:02:26.000 I knew it.

01:02:26.000 I already knew it before I asked.

01:02:28.000 Because wrestlers can take everybody down.

01:02:30.000 And if you get taken down, you're fucked.

01:02:32.000 I want to learn how to wrestle.

01:02:33.000 It's a great.

01:02:34.000 Well, Terrence, show you how.

01:02:36.000 Terrence is one of the only boxers that are like, if that guy fought in MMA, he could do very well.

01:02:41.000 He would.

01:02:42.000 He would do very well.

01:02:43.000 I watched him wrestle an actual USA team wrestler.

01:02:50.000 He could wrestle.

01:02:51.000 Yeah, he was good.

01:02:52.000 He was good.

01:02:53.000 He wasn't getting.

01:02:54.000 He's not lost.

01:02:55.000 Yeah, he knows what he's doing.

01:02:56.000 And look, his son just won a state title.

01:02:58.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:02:59.000 He's the truth.

01:03:00.000 I want to learn how to wrestle, though.

01:03:02.000 It's a good thing to know.

01:03:03.000 It's a good thing because it's a humbling thing.

01:03:05.000 I feel like they're the strongest people.

01:03:07.000 Like, I feel like when it comes to strength, like real strength, their bodies are, like, stronger than most.

01:03:07.000 Oh, yeah.

01:03:14.000 Oh, it's a different thing.

01:03:15.000 When they get a hold of you, you feel like a child.

01:03:18.000 You just get ragdolled.

01:03:19.000 You're like, this is embarrassing.

01:03:21.000 You know, that's the most important skill I feel.

01:03:24.000 But every fight starts standing up.

01:03:27.000 Every round starts standing up.

01:03:29.000 At the beginning of the round, you're standing up again, so that guy's got to take you down again.

01:03:33.000 And in that transition.

01:03:37.000 Yeah, that's when you can catch someone.

01:03:38.000 Yeah, I figured that.

01:03:39.000 Look, there's elite fighters that aren't great wrestlers in MMA, like Alex Pereira, who's a two-division world champion.

01:03:46.000 But he's just a destructive kickboxer.

01:03:49.000 He's such a terrifying kickboxer.

01:03:51.000 What is John Jones?

01:03:52.000 John Jones is a wrestler.

01:03:53.000 He's a wrestler?

01:03:54.000 Well, he's an everything fighter.

01:03:55.000 He could do everything.

01:03:56.000 But he started out his career as a wrestler.

01:04:00.000 I like him.

01:04:01.000 Oh, he's the best ever.

01:04:03.000 The best ever.

01:04:04.000 He's the best ever because he's the smartest of all of them.

01:04:07.000 I mean, that guy studs.

01:04:09.000 That's why I liked him.

01:04:10.000 That's exactly what I like.

01:04:11.000 I seen a video of him saying he watches everything from top to bottom.

01:04:16.000 He's going to watch your interviews.

01:04:17.000 He's going to watch every single thing until he finds a weakness.

01:04:22.000 Oh, yeah.

01:04:22.000 That's why I like him.

01:04:23.000 Yeah, he gets inside their head.

01:04:25.000 He knows every tendency they do.

01:04:26.000 He sets traps.

01:04:28.000 He does everything.

01:04:29.000 Daniel Cormier, who I love to death, is a great friend of mine.

01:04:29.000 It's funny.

01:04:32.000 When he fought John Jones, they were talking before the fight about tendencies.

01:04:37.000 And Daniel's like, oh, I know what you think I'm going to do.

01:04:40.000 You think I'm going to lean towards the right?

01:04:41.000 And you're going to kick me in the head.

01:04:43.000 And John did exactly that in a fight.

01:04:45.000 It was so crazy when he landed it.

01:04:48.000 Like, I love both of those guys, but Daniel's a close friend.

01:04:51.000 And so when he landed that head kick, I was like, no.

01:04:55.000 You know, and I'm doing commentary, so I've got to like, I've got to be balanced.

01:05:00.000 And, you know, I do love both of those guys, but I was like, damn, he did exactly what he said he was going to do.

01:05:06.000 You said it on the commentary?

01:05:08.000 No, I didn't say it on the commentary.

01:05:09.000 I don't want to call it out there.

01:05:10.000 But in the pre-fight, they were talking shit to each other.

01:05:15.000 And one of the things is like, you have some tendencies, Daniel, and I'm going to exploit those tendencies.

01:05:18.000 And he's like, oh, you mean how I dip to the right when I go.

01:05:22.000 And he did exactly that.

01:05:24.000 He caught him with that head kick.

01:05:25.000 I was like, no.

01:05:27.000 Oh.

01:05:28.000 Wow.

01:05:29.000 But look, that's the GOAT.

01:05:31.000 That's the guy, man.

01:05:32.000 He's the guy.

01:05:33.000 He's the guy who always figures out a way to win.

01:05:35.000 He figures it out.

01:05:36.000 I heard it was somebody that he was supposed to fight, though, that wanted to fight him.

01:05:40.000 He was like somebody really good.

01:05:42.000 Oh, Tom Aspinall?

01:05:43.000 Yeah.

01:05:43.000 Yeah, that's what I mean.

01:05:44.000 Well, see, the thing with that is, you know, John is at the stage of his career where he's like, I want to fight legends and I want to fight fights that are like big fights against big names that matter.

01:05:56.000 Tom Aspinall carried a high risk.

01:05:58.000 He wasn't a very well-known fighter, even though he's the heavyweight champion.

01:06:02.000 And he was really the heavyweight champion because John resigned the title.

01:06:07.000 So he was the interim heavyweight champion.

01:06:09.000 So they had an interim title.

01:06:12.000 And John was the undisputed heavyweight champion.

01:06:14.000 And they were supposed to fight.

01:06:15.000 And they didn't make that happen.

01:06:17.000 But now, you know, after that fight, John is still trying to figure out if he's going to fight again.

01:06:24.000 If he's going to fight again, maybe he will fight because there's a big White House card in.

01:06:28.000 I heard about that.

01:06:29.000 Yeah.

01:06:30.000 And the White House card is a big one.

01:06:32.000 And if that happens, it won't be Aspinall probably because Aspinall just went through eye surgery.

01:06:38.000 Yeah.

01:06:39.000 Two different eye surgeries.

01:06:40.000 He got poked in the eyes in his fight.

01:06:42.000 Aren't you involved in the UFC?

01:06:44.000 Yeah.

01:06:45.000 Yeah.

01:06:45.000 I'm the commentator.

01:06:46.000 Okay.

01:06:46.000 I'm one of the commentators.

01:06:47.000 So are you going to be doing like Zoofa boxing too?

01:06:50.000 No, that's Kellerman, Andre Ward.

01:06:55.000 They do a great job over there.

01:06:56.000 For sure.

01:06:57.000 I'll definitely watch some of those fights, though.

01:06:59.000 I think it's interesting.

01:07:01.000 I think it's good to have more organizations that are competing to get the fighters because then the fighters will get more money.

01:07:08.000 Money, yes.

01:07:09.000 And I think MMA could use that too.

01:07:12.000 Unfortunately, the UFC is the big name in MMA.

01:07:15.000 And MMA, unlike boxing, is all about the UFC.

01:07:19.000 In boxing, it's all about who's the champ.

01:07:21.000 Nobody gives a shit if it's Golden Boy or Bob Arum.

01:07:25.000 Nobody gives a fuck who the promoter is.

01:07:27.000 It's like, who is the fighter that's fighting?

01:07:30.000 Is it Triple G versus Canelo?

01:07:33.000 Who are the fighters?

01:07:35.000 And unfortunately, with MMA, it's not that.

01:07:38.000 It's like if you are an excellent fighter, but you fight for the PFL, nobody knows.

01:07:44.000 Nobody knows.

01:07:45.000 There's a small audience of hardcore people that pay attention to that.

01:07:48.000 Who fight for the PFL?

01:07:51.000 Clarissa, huh?

01:07:52.000 Yeah, she fought for the PFL.

01:07:53.000 She's crazy.

01:07:54.000 That lady's wild.

01:07:55.000 She's the best.

01:07:56.000 Oh, she's the best.

01:07:56.000 She's wild.

01:07:58.000 She's the best.

01:07:59.000 There's nobody better.

01:08:00.000 I mean, she's the heavyweight champ now.

01:08:02.000 It's crazy.

01:08:03.000 I just wish she was kind of smaller so like some of the smaller girls who really think that they can beat her can see like there's levels.

01:08:13.000 Man.

01:08:14.000 She's the GOAT.

01:08:14.000 Yeah.

01:08:15.000 She is the GOAT, but she's not getting, I mean, as much as the love that she does get, she's not getting what she deserves.

01:08:22.000 And it's just because there's just not a lot of competition.

01:08:25.000 I don't understand it.

01:08:26.000 I don't understand it.

01:08:28.000 Two Olympic gold medals undisputed several times in the sport.

01:08:33.000 I just don't get it.

01:08:34.000 Well, it's just women's boxing does not have the same level of respect and appreciation that men's boxing does, unfortunately.

01:08:41.000 Well, Clarissa, I respect and appreciate you, and you are my GOAT.

01:08:46.000 Yeah, I do as well.

01:08:47.000 I've had her on.

01:08:48.000 She's awesome.

01:08:48.000 I've had her on the podcast.

01:08:50.000 I'm a big fan of her.

01:08:51.000 And just the only one that had the courage to fight in MMA.

01:08:54.000 I mean, that was crazy.

01:08:55.000 She's tough.

01:08:56.000 And she really did, like, not bad, but she was fighting against lesser competition.

01:09:01.000 Yeah.

01:09:02.000 But she definitely was like, you could tell she was charming.

01:09:06.000 She had to learn the grappling from a beginner's perspective.

01:09:08.000 And she was breaking out of them like chokeholds.

01:09:12.000 Well, she knows how to win, you know, and sometimes that's enough.

01:09:17.000 You know, at that high a level, as elite a level as she is.

01:09:21.000 But I think she's rightly just concentrating on boxing because I think she realizes that to be a world champion in MMA, she'd kind of have to abandon boxing.

01:09:30.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:09:31.000 And it would be a long journey.

01:09:34.000 And she'd probably have to absorb a couple more losses.

01:09:37.000 Yeah.

01:09:39.000 It ain't really worth it.

01:09:40.000 Fuck these girls up in boxing.

01:09:42.000 And I know she don't like losing.

01:09:44.000 No, not at all.

01:09:46.000 No.

01:09:47.000 She's fun.

01:09:48.000 She's a fun fighter to watch, though.

01:09:50.000 If anybody can get people to pay attention to women's boxing, it's Clarissa.

01:09:54.000 Yes, because she's exciting.

01:09:56.000 I don't see it.

01:09:57.000 That's why I don't understand.

01:09:59.000 I don't get it.

01:10:00.000 She deserves all her flowers.

01:10:02.000 She's the true fam.

01:10:04.000 I never seen nobody, no female as good as her ever in my life.

01:10:09.000 No, she's probably the greatest of all time.

01:10:11.000 I think everybody would agree.

01:10:13.000 You know, you've had a few, there's a few great fighters over the years that have been female fighters, but she's the real standout.

01:10:19.000 Yeah.

01:10:20.000 No question.

01:10:20.000 It's just, unfortunately, that sport, I mean, there's not a lot of women out there that want to get punched in the face.

01:10:27.000 If you had a room full of a thousand women, there might be like one or two like, I'll try that.

01:10:32.000 You know what I mean?

01:10:33.000 Now, I think it's some solid female fighters in the sport of boxing.

01:10:36.000 Oh, there are.

01:10:37.000 There are.

01:10:38.000 But not in comparison to the numbers in men.

01:10:40.000 Men's boxing is just, you know, a lot of kids grow up, they want to be a boxer.

01:10:45.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:10:46.000 Not a lot of women are like, let me put the doll down and fuck some chick up.

01:10:53.000 That's an unusual mindset.

01:10:55.000 Yeah, it is.

01:10:55.000 You know, it's just, you know, it is what it is.

01:10:59.000 It's, we're fortunate to be able to have her, though.

01:11:02.000 Like, because, like, if there's anybody that's going to elevate the sport and bring in new fighters, it's going to be someone who is really the only person in the sport that gets a tremendous amount of attention as a woman.

01:11:12.000 Yeah.

01:11:13.000 She done became a superstar.

01:11:14.000 So it's definitely interesting seeing her in like them big arenas and having all the people walk out with her.

01:11:24.000 And it's amazing to see.

01:11:26.000 So I'm enjoying her process and I'm glad that I'm here to witness it.

01:11:30.000 Yeah, me too.

01:11:31.000 I mean, but, you know, other than her, in the past, there haven't been enough women that have like really, you know, Christy Martin, Leila Lee, and there's like a few that.

01:11:31.000 Yeah.

01:11:44.000 I like Ann Wolf.

01:11:45.000 Ann Wolf was a beast.

01:11:46.000 Yeah, I like her.

01:11:47.000 She was one of the few that could flatline a chick with one shot, too.

01:11:50.000 She was the truth.

01:11:50.000 I like her.

01:11:52.000 She was the truth.

01:11:52.000 Oh, yeah, man.

01:11:53.000 And a great trainer, too.

01:11:55.000 Yeah.

01:11:55.000 When she was training Kirkland.

01:11:57.000 Yeah.

01:11:57.000 Bro, they showed those videos of what she was putting him through.

01:12:01.000 And, you know, when he fought Canelo, he didn't have her in his corner.

01:12:04.000 I was just about to say the fights that he lost, he kind of did not have her, huh?

01:12:08.000 And the fights.

01:12:08.000 Exactly.

01:12:09.000 She was a fucking general, dude.

01:12:11.000 She was a general.

01:12:13.000 She put him through some brutal shit.

01:12:15.000 But those were the fights that he was ultra prepared.

01:12:18.000 You know?

01:12:18.000 Yeah.

01:12:19.000 I think that's the, like, people don't realize.

01:12:22.000 I feel like the best coaches in the sport of boxing are the people that kind of box.

01:12:27.000 I bet.

01:12:27.000 Yeah.

01:12:27.000 Like Robert Garcia.

01:12:29.000 I think he's the truth as a coach.

01:12:31.000 Sure.

01:12:32.000 Bomack.

01:12:33.000 Bomack, another fighter.

01:12:34.000 Yep.

01:12:36.000 Buddy McGurt.

01:12:37.000 Buddy McGurt.

01:12:38.000 Oh, he was a great fighter.

01:12:39.000 I just feel like the coaches that's been in there is kind of right.

01:12:43.000 They know.

01:12:44.000 Sure.

01:12:44.000 Yeah.

01:12:45.000 I think it helps a lot.

01:12:46.000 I mean, there's a few guys, like Emmanuel Stewart.

01:12:49.000 Did he have an amateur background?

01:12:52.000 I think so.

01:12:53.000 I'm not sure.

01:12:53.000 I think so, though.

01:12:54.000 I think so.

01:12:55.000 Emmanuel just had a brilliant mind for the sport.

01:12:58.000 Yeah, I like the way he talked, too.

01:12:59.000 I'll be watching some of his old videos.

01:13:01.000 Yeah.

01:13:02.000 He actually, it was something that I was doing in my fight for this fight, but I watched a video of him and he said fighters overtrain, like they're over-trained.

01:13:14.000 And when I seen it, he started explaining the reasons why you know that they over-training.

01:13:20.000 And I seen it, and I started cutting back on some of the things that I'm doing.

01:13:24.000 I'm like, man, I don't want to over-train and don't come out at my best.

01:13:28.000 Amateur boxing career, he compiled a record of 94 wins, three losses, and the amateur, including winning the 1963 National Golden Gloves Tournament in the Bantamweight Division.

01:13:38.000 Wow, Bantamweight.

01:13:39.000 That's crazy.

01:13:40.000 I mean, he was small.

01:13:42.000 That's crazy.

01:13:44.000 But man, what he did with the Cronk gym, he also had this gym like cranked up.

01:13:48.000 He made it like 98 degrees in there all the time.

01:13:51.000 So everybody was like training in the heat.

01:13:53.000 Yep.

01:13:54.000 He had a lot of boxers that was like top-level boxers in there.

01:13:58.000 So they was pushing each other to get better.

01:14:00.000 So that's the cheat code right there.

01:14:02.000 Oh, it is the cheat code, right?

01:14:04.000 Iron sharpens iron.

01:14:05.000 Yep.

01:14:06.000 Yeah, you can't be the best boxer in your gym and have everybody else that's way below you and really get to that world-class level.

01:14:13.000 Impossible.

01:14:14.000 It's impossible.

01:14:15.000 You got to bring in guys that's on a high level.

01:14:18.000 And honestly, for me, I keep like the young kids that's like up and coming.

01:14:25.000 Like my little cousin, he's a great boxer and he's up and coming.

01:14:29.000 And I just was in the gym with him yesterday and play sparring with him.

01:14:32.000 And I keep a lot of good boxers around me.

01:14:36.000 A lot of good boxers.

01:14:37.000 There's another kid, Emmanuel Chance.

01:14:39.000 He's like 19 years old.

01:14:41.000 And like they are so skillful right now to where like when I'm around them, I'm still picking up things from them.

01:14:48.000 And they probably don't even know it, but I'm definitely, I got my notepad out everywhere I go.

01:14:55.000 That's so important, right?

01:14:57.000 Yeah, like mentally it's locked in here.

01:14:59.000 Like I'm watching this study.

01:15:01.000 So everybody does everything different.

01:15:03.000 You know, and you can just pick up little things here and there from what they do and start incorporating that.

01:15:03.000 Yeah.

01:15:08.000 Yep.

01:15:09.000 People don't know right before the fight with T.O. It was, I'm going to tell you a fight that I was watching.

01:15:15.000 Okay.

01:15:16.000 I'm going to give out a little secret.

01:15:18.000 It was an eight-year-old kid, Tremaine Williams.

01:15:24.000 He fought a guy named Dusty Harrison.

01:15:27.000 And like they literally eight years old.

01:15:29.000 But I like the way Tremaine was fighting in that fight.

01:15:31.000 He was using his jab.

01:15:33.000 And he was the shorter fighter, but he was keeping his range and distance.

01:15:38.000 And I was literally watching an eight-year-old kid fight right before the biggest fight of my life.

01:15:43.000 That's amazing.

01:15:44.000 And you were studying.

01:15:46.000 Wow.

01:15:46.000 I swear.

01:15:48.000 That's great.

01:15:49.000 That's such a great mindset.

01:15:51.000 I mean, that's how you really grow and learn.

01:15:54.000 You could absorb something from everybody.

01:15:56.000 Yeah, you can learn from anywhere.

01:15:58.000 Like, I was watching an interview with you once where you were talking about Terrence, and you said you really learn more watching Terrence than being in there.

01:16:06.000 Yeah.

01:16:07.000 I still feel that way.

01:16:08.000 Like, I feel like I learn more from seeing the things he's doing than being in the ring with him.

01:16:16.000 Now, when we're in the ring, it's always chess.

01:16:17.000 Like, we're having chess matches.

01:16:20.000 But when I'm watching, I could see some of the things he's doing.

01:16:24.000 And I'm like, damn, this dude is just different.

01:16:27.000 Like, I knew before the Spence fight what was happening.

01:16:31.000 I knew before the Canelo fight what was happening.

01:16:34.000 Like, even when I was in the locker room, I'm in the locker room.

01:16:37.000 I'm looking at him.

01:16:38.000 Call my Batman.

01:16:39.000 I'm like, yo, put me some more money.

01:16:43.000 I know what time it is.

01:16:45.000 No lie, though.

01:16:47.000 But watching him in the gym, you got to see hard training sessions.

01:16:53.000 You got to see when he looked great.

01:16:54.000 You got to see bad days in the gym.

01:16:57.000 You got to see how he recovered, how he came back.

01:17:00.000 Yep.

01:17:02.000 Like I said, he's one of the most competitive human beings I ever met.

01:17:05.000 So I do get to see all of it.

01:17:08.000 Like, I get to see, go home with him.

01:17:12.000 Okay, let me see how he's thinking about this.

01:17:14.000 He'll go back and watch the sparring.

01:17:15.000 And when he watching it, oh, my God, he's adjusting.

01:17:19.000 His brain is just adjusting to the sparring that he just watched.

01:17:23.000 And then we'll go in the gym the next day.

01:17:25.000 And now he's just doing things and everything just on point.

01:17:30.000 So do you do that?

01:17:31.000 Do you watch your sparring sessions?

01:17:32.000 I learned that from him.

01:17:33.000 Yeah.

01:17:34.000 I used to really never used to do that.

01:17:36.000 But I had seen him.

01:17:38.000 I forget what sparring session he was watching.

01:17:41.000 I want to say on his iPad.

01:17:43.000 And he was watching it.

01:17:44.000 And then I seen him spar the next time.

01:17:46.000 And I'm like, ooh, we look like a million bucks.

01:17:50.000 Like, the adjustments that he made was just insane.

01:17:53.000 So I started doing the same thing.

01:17:54.000 I'm like, if I have a day I don't like, I go home.

01:17:58.000 Why did I have this day?

01:18:01.000 Oh my God.

01:18:02.000 I keep doing that.

01:18:03.000 Why do I keep doing it?

01:18:04.000 Okay, I'm not doing that no more.

01:18:06.000 Oh, I could hit him with this.

01:18:07.000 I see that shot is open.

01:18:09.000 Okay, now I'm going to hit him with this shot.

01:18:11.000 And I think that helps me tremendously.

01:18:15.000 That makes sense.

01:18:16.000 Like, watching yourself as an observer the way you would watch an opponent.

01:18:20.000 Yeah.

01:18:21.000 You got to see what you do good and like what you do bad.

01:18:25.000 And correct the things that you do bad.

01:18:25.000 Yeah.

01:18:28.000 Instead of just remembering it from the training, watching it.

01:18:32.000 Yeah.

01:18:32.000 Because I have like a bad habit sometimes when I'm like in a boxing gym.

01:18:37.000 I like a fight.

01:18:40.000 I don't have like, I don't know why I will get in there.

01:18:43.000 Sometimes I just turn into a fighter instead of realizing that I'm a boxer.

01:18:48.000 And then sometimes I get hit with shots and I'm like, oh, why am I getting hit with that shot?

01:18:48.000 Right.

01:18:53.000 I'm like, I know.

01:18:54.000 My mental, my brain was already locked in on fighting instead of being locked in on boxing.

01:18:59.000 And then you fight.

01:19:01.000 Explain to people what is the difference between your mentality fighting and your mentality as a boxer.

01:19:07.000 When I'm fighting, I'm emotional.

01:19:12.000 Like, and I don't want to be emotional, but I'm emotional.

01:19:17.000 And then I'm fighting somebody.

01:19:18.000 I'm trying to beat them up.

01:19:20.000 And I'm having a contest of who's the bigger and stronger guy.

01:19:27.000 And when I'm boxing, I'm just on top of my game.

01:19:31.000 And it's like, I'm able to hit you.

01:19:34.000 And you're not able to hit me.

01:19:36.000 And that's what I do best.

01:19:37.000 So I try to like stick with what I do best.

01:19:40.000 And it's going to be a time to fight.

01:19:43.000 So I have that in my arsenal for sure.

01:19:46.000 I don't like just doing it for no reason.

01:19:48.000 Do you sometimes feel yourself getting emotional fight and have to pull it back?

01:19:53.000 I never had it happen in a fight, but I done had it happen in the spirit to where, like, all right, bro, you your emotions is just taking control instead of like you just having fun and enjoying what you're doing.

01:20:07.000 Right.

01:20:07.000 So, yeah, I done had no moments in the gym for sure.

01:20:11.000 It's just like a composure thing.

01:20:14.000 All of a sudden, you're now not thinking as much.

01:20:17.000 You're just trying to beat it.

01:20:18.000 You can get the emotions out of the situation and just be you.

01:20:22.000 Yeah.

01:20:22.000 Be present.

01:20:23.000 That's really my main thing.

01:20:25.000 I want to be present in what I'm doing and not moving off of feelings.

01:20:31.000 Right.

01:20:32.000 That probably fucks up a lot of fighters, don't it?

01:20:35.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:20:36.000 Because so many, especially men, they're so wrapped up in their feelings and their emotions when they're fighting.

01:20:42.000 Yeah, but fighters don't study they self.

01:20:43.000 Like, I study myself.

01:20:45.000 Like, I gotta check in with myself and see, like, what am I doing wrong and what am I doing right?

01:20:51.000 And I correct it.

01:20:52.000 You think that's rare?

01:20:54.000 Yeah, I think that's a rare attribute.

01:20:57.000 Um, because fighters depend on their coaches, they depend on their coaches to do everything.

01:21:02.000 And I do, I depend on my grandfather when I need him, but I know that I'm the fighter that's in there.

01:21:08.000 So I'm not trying to just depend on them.

01:21:11.000 I want to depend on myself also.

01:21:14.000 So, like, do you try to get the other guys in the gym to follow your footsteps and watch footage?

01:21:21.000 You tell them, like, help them out with that?

01:21:23.000 Yeah.

01:21:24.000 Like, the younger guys that I just mentioned, my little cousin and my little brother down there, Manny, I try to tell them to tune in with themselves and do the same similar things.

01:21:35.000 Watch yourself, see what you're doing wrong, and try to correct it.

01:21:39.000 But they're younger, so as time goes on, they will like pick up on it.

01:21:44.000 But I can't rush how I feel and my beliefs on them right now.

01:21:49.000 Well, the best thing you could do is lead by example.

01:21:51.000 Yeah.

01:21:52.000 Always.

01:21:52.000 That's my main thing.

01:21:53.000 Yeah.

01:21:54.000 If you do all the hard work and you put it in there, they'll see your success.

01:21:58.000 When they have harder moments, they'll go, okay, what do I need to adjust?

01:22:02.000 Yep.

01:22:02.000 Let me follow Shakira.

01:22:04.000 Well, let me see what the champ is doing.

01:22:07.000 That's my main goal.

01:22:07.000 Yeah, that's the goal.

01:22:09.000 Because, like I said, I ain't going to be boxing forever.

01:22:12.000 So once I'm done, I'm going to sit back and I'm going to help them out.

01:22:16.000 Do you plan on coaching when you're done?

01:22:19.000 I probably don't coach.

01:22:21.000 Just help out in the gym?

01:22:23.000 Just call me a secret weapon.

01:22:26.000 Call me a secret weapon.

01:22:28.000 I'll be that guy.

01:22:29.000 Do you already think about what you're going to do when you retire?

01:22:33.000 Because boxing is a sport where when you retire, you still have so much life ahead of you.

01:22:38.000 Man, that's the truth.

01:22:41.000 I've been trying to like figure it out because I know it's going to be within boxing.

01:22:47.000 But whatever I do, I'm going to do to the best of my ability.

01:22:50.000 I'm going to want to make tons of money for what I'm doing.

01:22:55.000 And if I'm a secret weapon, shit, I might make money just being a secret weapon.

01:23:02.000 So we'll see.

01:23:03.000 Just someone bringing into camp.

01:23:03.000 Right.

01:23:05.000 I'm the right guy for it.

01:23:07.000 Yeah.

01:23:07.000 I got all the IQ.

01:23:09.000 I watch too much boxing.

01:23:11.000 Like, my life is like literally sit down and watch TV, watch iPad, watch.

01:23:19.000 I just live boxing.

01:23:21.000 So I think that'll be kind of easy.

01:23:23.000 But I just see myself like taking over the world.

01:23:27.000 In what way?

01:23:28.000 I don't know.

01:23:29.000 Like, I can't tell you.

01:23:30.000 Like, I don't know.

01:23:31.000 Like, my brain kind of like different.

01:23:33.000 Like, I don't feel like I know for a fact I'm not going to be boxing for long.

01:23:38.000 Like, I don't plan on getting in the ring, doing the wrist, and doing all that forever.

01:23:43.000 So when I take over the world, it's going to be more so like me just locking in and using the same focus that I got for boxing into whatever else that I'm doing and take over.

01:23:57.000 Like, whatever I do, I want to be the best.

01:24:00.000 So you don't even have a thought of what it's going to be.

01:24:03.000 You'll figure that out when you get out of boxing.

01:24:05.000 I journal a lot, so I'll be writing things for real.

01:24:07.000 So I can't tell you exactly what it's going to be, but I do know that I'm going to be somewhere making millions in a different atmosphere.

01:24:18.000 Well, that's a great attitude to have.

01:24:19.000 I'm glad you say you journal because this is one of the things that I wanted to bring up.

01:24:24.000 I wish more boxers were interested in writing books because I think there's some of the things that you're talking about today and some of the things you're talking about in terms of like watching yourself, analyzing yourself, things you've learned, that would be very, very valuable if it's written down.

01:24:41.000 But boxing knowledge is all word of mouth in the gym.

01:24:48.000 It's all people who know things tell other people and they learn things and you got to go to these gyms and talk to these people or you get boxing knowledge from the commentators like Andre Ward will spit it out or Roy Jones will spit it out.

01:25:00.000 Like that is where boxing knowledge gets sort of recorded.

01:25:07.000 But I think it would be great if boxers could sit down and write just on boxing.

01:25:14.000 Because you think about like what a huge sport boxing is.

01:25:18.000 Huge sport.

01:25:20.000 Like one of the pinnacles of sports, of combat sports.

01:25:24.000 But yet there's not a lot of books written about technique and style and how they learn things and what they learned and why and what changed.

01:25:36.000 And I learned that in this fight, in this fight, this changed.

01:25:39.000 And I adjusted this about my training sessions.

01:25:42.000 And I heard Emmanuel Stewart talk about overtraining.

01:25:44.000 And so I realized maybe I was doing that.

01:25:47.000 It is one book.

01:25:49.000 What is it?

01:25:50.000 Andre Wood book.

01:25:51.000 Oh, that's right.

01:25:52.000 People got to read it, but I'm not fully done with it either.

01:25:55.000 But as I read through some of it, he's giving out some free game.

01:26:01.000 Like, it's free game in there that people could go listen to and read it and check it out because it's definitely like.

01:26:09.000 Did he read it for the audiobook?

01:26:12.000 I'm not sure.

01:26:13.000 I know I got the actual book, so I just read it.

01:26:15.000 But I didn't finish it.

01:26:17.000 I won't say that I finished it.

01:26:19.000 But he talks all about those things.

01:26:21.000 It's a lot of things in there that's like free game.

01:26:24.000 Like, okay, ooh, I like that.

01:26:25.000 Like, I'm like, take that.

01:26:27.000 Like, if you're a trainer, even if you're a training a fighter, like you're a training a fighter, it's something that I saw that he said that I'm like, okay, I'm gonna take that if I'm a training fighters.

01:26:37.000 Narrated by Andre Ward, perfect.

01:26:40.000 Killing the image, a champion's journey, fighting and forgiveness.

01:26:43.000 He's the perfect guy to do that, too.

01:26:45.000 Because, like I said, he's the guy that did it right.

01:26:48.000 You know, he went out on top.

01:26:50.000 He helped you understand.

01:26:50.000 What's that?

01:26:52.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:26:53.000 Well, we need more books like that.

01:26:55.000 I'll read that book.

01:26:56.000 I haven't read it, but I'll read it.

01:26:57.000 Because I think it's just, there's so much knowledge out there in certain camps.

01:27:04.000 And it would benefit the entire sport if someone would document some of that stuff.

01:27:09.000 Because some of that stuff is only told to the fighters that this guy's training and only told to the other fighters this guy trains with.

01:27:17.000 And it's not out there and it could get lost.

01:27:21.000 You know, like I'm sure there's some shit that Floyd knows that only people around him know that have been told that will be lost.

01:27:29.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:27:29.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:27:30.000 It's something he told me before this last fight that I took in and I'm like, ooh.

01:27:35.000 Really?

01:27:36.000 I'm using that.

01:27:36.000 What is that?

01:27:38.000 It's simple, though.

01:27:39.000 It's very simple.

01:27:40.000 I don't, like I said, it's hard for me to keep giving out the.

01:27:44.000 Maybe when I retire, I'll.

01:27:46.000 Oh, come on, man.

01:27:47.000 What did he say?

01:27:48.000 No, he just told me stretching.

01:27:52.000 Stretching?

01:27:53.000 How powerful stretching is.

01:27:53.000 Stretching.

01:27:56.000 And I just gave up.

01:27:59.000 It's simple, though.

01:28:00.000 Like, people know it, but do people do it?

01:28:04.000 Dude, people don't even do it in MMA.

01:28:07.000 You know how crazy that is?

01:28:08.000 Where you have to kick and people don't stretch?

01:28:10.000 Yeah.

01:28:10.000 Like, I was having a conversation with this dude who was a world champion, and I was explaining to him a jiu-jitsu position.

01:28:17.000 I was like, this is why it's effective.

01:28:18.000 He's like, oh, I can't get my legs up that high.

01:28:20.000 I go, what are you talking about?

01:28:22.000 You can.

01:28:23.000 You just have to stretch.

01:28:24.000 Because I don't really stretch.

01:28:25.000 I go, that's crazy.

01:28:27.000 Every, no, there's a lot of fighters in sports that's like, I don't see it.

01:28:33.000 That's crazy.

01:28:34.000 I don't see it.

01:28:35.000 Well, Floyd has always been a guy who did everything right.

01:28:39.000 I mean, if you want to emulate a guy's career, Floyd has been hit hard maybe three times in his whole career.

01:28:47.000 Yeah.

01:28:47.000 Maybe.

01:28:48.000 Yeah, he's the truth.

01:28:50.000 100%.

01:28:51.000 Every time I watch him, he's a wizard.

01:28:53.000 I've barely seen anybody that good.

01:28:57.000 Like, for me personally, barely, like, it's only a handful of people that I could say, like, okay.

01:29:04.000 They're that good.

01:29:05.000 Like, his brain just working at a different level than a lot of people.

01:29:09.000 Also, just insanely disciplined, always in shape, always took care of himself, would go out to a club, drink water, and then run home in jeans.

01:29:18.000 In jeans.

01:29:19.000 That's tough.

01:29:21.000 I heard he had on like boots.

01:29:23.000 Boots.

01:29:25.000 I never heard of that like that before.

01:29:28.000 I can imagine.

01:29:29.000 I mean, but that's the results, right?

01:29:31.000 You get a guy who's just head and shoulders above everybody he fights.

01:29:34.000 Yeah.

01:29:35.000 And just a master of pinpoint precision and movement and knowing where you are and hard to hit, but stood right in front of you.

01:29:44.000 That's the crazy thing about Floyd.

01:29:46.000 There's a lot of guys that were hard to hit, but they were like fleet of foot and moving around, footwork and Lomachenko style, you know?

01:29:53.000 Right in front of you.

01:29:53.000 Not Floyd.

01:29:55.000 You can't hit him.

01:29:55.000 Right in front of you.

01:29:56.000 Kind of similar.

01:29:57.000 Crazy.

01:29:57.000 Kind of similar to me.

01:29:59.000 Yes.

01:30:00.000 But no, I think he's definitely a Chico.

01:30:04.000 Yeah.

01:30:05.000 His mental was just too far ahead of everybody else's.

01:30:08.000 That's the main thing.

01:30:08.000 Yeah.

01:30:10.000 Well, the one fight between like guys who retired and came back that I'm still interested in seeing is him and Manny.

01:30:18.000 And I know they're going to do that on Netflix.

01:30:20.000 Floyd.

01:30:21.000 I think that's still a high-level fight, though.

01:30:24.000 That's what I love about it.

01:30:25.000 Because I think Manny is still a high-level fighter.

01:30:28.000 And Floyd, even in these exhibitions that he's been doing.

01:30:32.000 He's looking good.

01:30:33.000 He looks great, man.

01:30:34.000 He looks great in sparring.

01:30:36.000 You see him in sparring.

01:30:37.000 Like, good Lord, man.

01:30:39.000 It doesn't look like he's lost a step.

01:30:41.000 Yeah, honestly, I don't see Manny being able to beat Floyd Mayweather.

01:30:46.000 Like, I don't see it.

01:30:48.000 I think Manny looked solid his last fight with Barrios, but I just don't see Floyd losing.

01:30:55.000 Like, I think it's some guys that he could come back today in the spoiler box in that fight.

01:31:01.000 I think so.

01:31:01.000 Like, guys, even though he's 46.

01:31:03.000 Yeah.

01:31:04.000 Right.

01:31:04.000 I think he would.

01:31:05.000 He would light Barrios up.

01:31:06.000 Yeah.

01:31:08.000 But I mean, there's levels.

01:31:10.000 I mean, no matter what he's lost being 46, they haven't gained that yet.

01:31:15.000 I mean, they were never there in the first place.

01:31:17.000 So if he was here and he's lost this much, they're still here.

01:31:22.000 Even though he's not Floyd that fought Canelo or Floyd that fought Ricky Hatton, it's not the same Floyd.

01:31:22.000 Yeah.

01:31:31.000 It's not that much different.

01:31:33.000 Yeah, he's still so far ahead.

01:31:36.000 Because he's not drinking.

01:31:37.000 He's not fucking his body up.

01:31:38.000 He's not doing anything stupid.

01:31:39.000 He stays in shape.

01:31:41.000 He eats right.

01:31:42.000 Yep.

01:31:42.000 Yeah.

01:31:43.000 I appreciate Floyd, too, because that's one of the guys that I never did no business with ever.

01:31:51.000 And he still kind of helped me.

01:31:53.000 So I appreciate him, man.

01:31:55.000 I think he's a real dude.

01:31:57.000 he got my love and respect well i always say that if you wanted to have a style that you emulate where you want to have a great career look at that guy like really very few times in his career ever got hurt yeah very very few You could count him on one hand yep, you know.

01:32:15.000 And where he was in any kind of trouble at all yeah, that's my goal.

01:32:18.000 And then when, in rematches, oh my god, in rematches he's always just like so, like my Donna, like my Donna, the first fight was rough fight, yeah.

01:32:27.000 Second fight, he looked like a master.

01:32:30.000 I'm not gonna lie, though.

01:32:31.000 He's one of the guys that makes me want to like feel the experience of like getting hurt because like, when he fought Shane Mosley, that moment of like he lost his whole balance, everything almost went to his feet, but he stayed up yep, and then he fought back harder, like I feel like that was like a amazing moment of his career and like, for me,

01:32:58.000 I want to have the experience like of that moment like I have never got hit, like cracked like that yet in a pro.

01:33:06.000 So I I actually want to experience.

01:33:08.000 You really want that.

01:33:09.000 Yeah really, because I want to show like that you could do it.

01:33:13.000 Yeah, like you got to see like I got more in me to just than just being like a good boxer, like i'm a good boxer but i'm tough too.

01:33:20.000 The Mosley fight was probably the fight where he got hurt the most yeah yeah, and the most dangerous, because it was like I think it was kind of in the middle of the round right yeah yeah, I want to feel that experience wow, and that was prime.

01:33:33.000 I told Andre Ward that he told me he's like man, why the why?

01:33:36.000 Why would you want to?

01:33:38.000 Why would you want to?

01:33:39.000 But i'm like I don't understand why, but I definitely do.

01:33:42.000 Who do you think out there could do that?

01:33:44.000 I don't think nobody.

01:33:47.000 I don't think they're like mentally on the level of team.

01:33:52.000 I think i'm just too far ahead that.

01:33:55.000 But that's the problem with being too far Far ahead is that it's got to be hard for you to get fights.

01:34:00.000 What are they talking about right now?

01:34:00.000 Yeah.

01:34:02.000 Is there anybody that they're talking about right now for you?

01:34:05.000 No, I haven't really heard nothing from a business standpoint since my last fight.

01:34:12.000 The problem is the last fight was too good.

01:34:14.000 You know, like you would have probably got some offers before that fight, but after that fight, everybody's like, hold on.

01:34:21.000 I don't know if I want that to happen to me.

01:34:23.000 Yeah, I have no clue who I'll be fighting next.

01:34:27.000 Who do you have your sights on?

01:34:29.000 Like, who do you, like, if you could make the decision, who do you think is interesting right now?

01:34:33.000 If I can make a decision, interest would interest me, maybe, and this is crazy to say.

01:34:42.000 I may go back to 35 and get that ring belt.

01:34:45.000 Really?

01:34:46.000 I may.

01:34:46.000 We'll see, though.

01:34:47.000 Yeah.

01:34:48.000 I can't promise that I will, but I may.

01:34:51.000 What makes that more interesting to you?

01:34:55.000 I like the ring belt.

01:34:56.000 Like, I like the ring magazine, but I don't know what it is about it.

01:35:00.000 I always expect it.

01:35:02.000 But for me to have a ring belt at 130, and then I had, I got a ring belt right now at 140, but I never had a ring belt at 35.

01:35:14.000 And it's like, should I just go get that ring belt just to have it?

01:35:20.000 So it's the belt, not even the opponent.

01:35:23.000 I know the opponent that I would have to fight to get it.

01:35:26.000 I'm hearing this Raymond Morataya.

01:35:29.000 He's a good fighter.

01:35:29.000 He just beat Andy Cruz.

01:35:31.000 So nah, this ain't the opponent.

01:35:33.000 It's more so just to have the ring belt.

01:35:36.000 That's crazy.

01:35:37.000 Like, you're at a position where you're not even thinking about opponents.

01:35:40.000 You're thinking about belts you'd like to acquire.

01:35:44.000 For sure.

01:35:45.000 That's pretty cool, though.

01:35:46.000 I mean, that's a beautiful place to be in.

01:35:48.000 Yeah.

01:35:49.000 That's beautiful.

01:35:50.000 But what about opponents?

01:35:51.000 Is there any opponents?

01:35:52.000 Like, if you had, like, if no one could say no, and you were like, I'm going to orchestrate my career, who would you like to fight?

01:36:01.000 If it was no opponents, I mean, and I was orchestrating, I'd probably because the fight that I would think that would generate the most amount of interest at 135 would be Tank.

01:36:17.000 Now, I know Tank's got some legal issues now, and I don't know what his status is currently, but when it terms of big names, Tank is the big name at 35.

01:36:30.000 Yeah, I would love for it to happen, but the way that he went on like social media and kind of like bashed me in a way to where it was like he made it seem like I need him.

01:36:46.000 And I just feel disrespected about it because at the end of the day, I'm a grown man.

01:36:52.000 I make my own money.

01:36:53.000 I'm living a spectacular life.

01:36:57.000 I don't need nobody.

01:36:58.000 So if he feels as though I need him and if it's that kind of stuff, then it's like, whatever.

01:37:05.000 I'm not in need of that fight.

01:37:07.000 The thing is, is like Tank had gotten a bunch of those high-profile fights.

01:37:11.000 He KO'd Ryan.

01:37:12.000 He's had some big, high-profile fights.

01:37:15.000 He looked great.

01:37:16.000 And so for him to say that, he's probably, you know, he's talking shit, obviously.

01:37:21.000 But he's like looking at you as like you haven't had before the Lopez fight, you haven't had that big breakout fight, but now you have.

01:37:30.000 Now you have, and it was more spectacular than you could.

01:37:34.000 I mean, if you wanted to write out a perfect result on paper against a world champion like Tia Fimo, that would be the fight you would say.

01:37:40.000 Yeah.

01:37:41.000 So that's, I mean, if I had to think of like a big fight for you, if I was the guy with the magic wand, that would be the fight that I would set up.

01:37:49.000 I would love to fight.

01:37:51.000 I would love for that fight to happen.

01:37:53.000 Ooh, that would be a big fight.

01:37:54.000 Especially after you just beat Lopez.

01:37:57.000 That'd be a big fight.

01:37:58.000 I would love for the fight to happen.

01:38:00.000 That might be the only big fight that I could think of, other than you going up.

01:38:04.000 But 47's, like you said, that's a big jump, man.

01:38:08.000 Yeah, I'm not, I'll make it, though.

01:38:10.000 I'll make it soon.

01:38:11.000 Soon, I mean, later than sooner.

01:38:14.000 Do you think if you did that, you would want to prepare and put mass on, or would you just stay at the weight you are and just get accustomed to fighting bigger guys?

01:38:25.000 If I was to go to 47, I would want to prepare.

01:38:29.000 Like, I would want to do it slowly.

01:38:33.000 I wouldn't want to just jump to 147 and you would want to put on weight, you think?

01:38:39.000 Yeah, some type of weight, yep.

01:38:41.000 Because I'm little, like, I can't just jump the ring at the size that I am at 147 pounds when I know guys is going to be a lot bigger.

01:38:41.000 Yeah.

01:38:50.000 Especially when you're talking about Ryan being 170 when he gets in the ring.

01:38:50.000 Right.

01:38:54.000 He might even be bigger than that.

01:38:55.000 He was big and ripped in his last fight.

01:38:55.000 Exactly.

01:38:58.000 He looked fucking great.

01:38:59.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:39:00.000 You know, but it's like that's one of those things, too, is if you do go up, going down gets real hard going back.

01:39:12.000 Like, if you go up.

01:39:13.000 I always say that.

01:39:14.000 I don't understand the reason with that.

01:39:17.000 Because your body gets accustomed to being bigger.

01:39:19.000 For real.

01:39:19.000 And then, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:39:20.000 And then, so if you put on mass, right?

01:39:22.000 So if you put on muscle and you go up to like 147, and so you're walking around at 155, 160, something like that, you drop down to 47, you've got more shoulder muscle, chest muscle, back muscle, leg muscle.

01:39:36.000 If you stay at that weight and then you got to cut down to 35, you're going to feel like shit.

01:39:43.000 And the example that I always use is Roy.

01:39:45.000 So when Roy Jones went up and fought John Ruiz, won the heavyweight title, then he went back down to light heavyweight, he never looked the same.

01:39:53.000 Because he was 200 pounds solid at a heavyweight.

01:39:57.000 Ripped, like muscular, 200 pounds.

01:40:00.000 For him to lose 25 pounds of weight and go back down to light heavyweight, that is fucking hard.

01:40:08.000 Yeah, I get that.

01:40:08.000 I get that.

01:40:10.000 I feel like when Rory did that, Rory was like, I think he must have been trying to set up a big heavyweight fight, maybe?

01:40:20.000 Or was he just trying to just win a title?

01:40:22.000 I mean, I think he was just trying to be like the only guy to go from middleweight to win the heavyweight title, which he did.

01:40:27.000 Yeah, I don't understand why he did that because you're right.

01:40:30.000 When he fought Tarver, it was like, I don't know what was happening.

01:40:35.000 I didn't really think Tarver was as good as Rory, but Tarver beat Rory.

01:40:40.000 Tarva's a bad motherfucker, though.

01:40:43.000 Tarver's a very good fighter.

01:40:45.000 Did he beat Roy?

01:40:47.000 I think Tarver in that fight, first of all, they had fought before, right?

01:40:52.000 They had had a real close decision loss.

01:40:54.000 Tarver lost.

01:40:55.000 And then Tarver got in his head at the beginning of the fight.

01:40:58.000 He said, you got any excuses tonight, Roy?

01:41:00.000 That was crazy.

01:41:03.000 Like, to hear that, like, right when you're about to fight.

01:41:06.000 Yeah.

01:41:06.000 Any questions for the champion?

01:41:08.000 Any questions for the champion?

01:41:09.000 Got any excuses tonight, Roy?

01:41:10.000 Yeah, oh, my God.

01:41:12.000 Man, I don't know.

01:41:14.000 That was one of the wildest things anybody's ever said.

01:41:17.000 That would have turned me up, though.

01:41:18.000 Like, if he would have said that to me, like, I'm trying to picture somebody saying that to me right before we fight.

01:41:24.000 Now I'm going to want, I already want to beat you back.

01:41:27.000 Right.

01:41:27.000 Now I'm going to want to beat you even better.

01:41:29.000 Like, then after the fight, I'm going to get on the mic.

01:41:32.000 And what did you say?

01:41:33.000 Did you say something?

01:41:34.000 But when he dropped Roy and knocked him out, I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe it.

01:41:40.000 But I was worried about him because I know what that does to people when they drop weight.

01:41:45.000 And dropping down from 200 pounds to 175 will really wear your body out.

01:41:51.000 Yeah, so you think it was more so the weight than the skills of Tarva?

01:41:54.000 I would never say that because I think Tarva has elite skills.

01:41:58.000 I mean, Tarva's.

01:41:59.000 Elite?

01:42:00.000 I think he's elite.

01:42:01.000 Oh, come on.

01:42:02.000 I think Tarva's an elite fighter.

01:42:04.000 Elite?

01:42:05.000 You don't think he's elite?

01:42:06.000 No.

01:42:07.000 I mean, he's in all due respect to Tarvara.

01:42:08.000 Great performances and not as good performances, but I think in the performance against Roy, he looked elite.

01:42:15.000 Yeah, he looked good that night.

01:42:16.000 Because he rose to the occasion.

01:42:18.000 I just don't know about elite.

01:42:20.000 Elite level.

01:42:22.000 For me personally, I'm not the biggest Tarver fan, so.

01:42:26.000 Well, I defer to your championship knowledge.

01:42:26.000 Okay.

01:42:29.000 But, I mean, in that fight, you can't say that he didn't look spectacular that night.

01:42:33.000 No, he did.

01:42:34.000 He did.

01:42:34.000 He looked on point.

01:42:34.000 He did.

01:42:35.000 He looked like he was the better fighter at that moment.

01:42:39.000 Yeah.

01:42:40.000 Awkward.

01:42:40.000 Southpaw.

01:42:41.000 When I watched the first fight, I thought Rory was a way better fighter than him.

01:42:44.000 I thought Roy just stood on the ropes for way too long.

01:42:48.000 I don't know why he did that.

01:42:51.000 Was the first fight before or after he fought Ruiz?

01:42:58.000 It was after.

01:43:00.000 Was it after?

01:43:00.000 The first fight they had to?

01:43:02.000 That probably wore his ass out, too.

01:43:02.000 Yeah.

01:43:05.000 I just think once you go all the way up like that, you should probably stay there.

01:43:08.000 Yeah.

01:43:09.000 And I don't know how he went up.

01:43:10.000 I don't want to, you know, it's hard for a guy in his 30s to put on that kind of muscle.

01:43:17.000 And generally you have some help.

01:43:17.000 Yeah.

01:43:20.000 Yeah.

01:43:21.000 So generally some Mexican supplements involved.

01:43:24.000 And so the problem is.

01:43:26.000 He took osterine.

01:43:29.000 Once you have taken that stuff and then you stop taking it because you want to go back to your normal weight, your whole endocrine system gets fucked up.

01:43:38.000 This is the problem with juicers.

01:43:40.000 Guys who take juice, the thing that happens.

01:43:43.000 Man, don't tell me this.

01:43:44.000 No, I'm not saying this about Roy.

01:43:44.000 Hold on.

01:43:46.000 Okay, okay, okay.

01:43:47.000 Fighters in general.

01:43:48.000 We just talk in general.

01:43:50.000 Fighters that gain weight and have lean muscle and put on that kind of mass.

01:43:57.000 Generally, they're doing it with some kind of supplement.

01:44:01.000 Some kind of either steroids or something that juices up your endocrine system, whether it is peptides.

01:44:08.000 Yes.

01:44:09.000 Damn, I never heard of this.

01:44:10.000 You didn't know?

01:44:11.000 Nah.

01:44:12.000 Come on, man.

01:44:13.000 You don't, for real?

01:44:14.000 Nah, I didn't know.

01:44:15.000 There's a lot of fighters that took stuff.

01:44:15.000 Oh, come on.

01:44:17.000 Oh, I know, no, I know that.

01:44:18.000 I know that people is cheating.

01:44:21.000 Oh, well, in the older days, before they were testing.

01:44:24.000 Oh, come on, man.

01:44:25.000 Like in the 90s, who knows how many guys were on steroids?

01:44:29.000 Damn, that take away the credit of them guys because I feel like when I watched them guys, they was the truth.

01:44:36.000 They are the truth.

01:44:37.000 But I don't think, I think, well, let me use what I know for an example.

01:44:43.000 An MMA.

01:44:44.000 MMA is a better example.

01:44:46.000 Because in MMA, fucking for sure, I could tell you 100% people were juicing.

01:44:52.000 100%.

01:44:53.000 Because I knew guys who were juicing.

01:44:55.000 They would tell me what they were on, and everybody was juicing.

01:44:58.000 So then they started implementing, so then the UFC starts getting sanctioned by athletic commissions and they test day of the fight.

01:45:08.000 The day of the fight test is an intelligence test.

01:45:10.000 It's not a steroids test.

01:45:12.000 It's like, were you intelligent enough to cycle off right before the fight with the right kind of steroids so that on the way in day when you get tested, you don't test positive?

01:45:22.000 Yeah.

01:45:23.000 That's all it is.

01:45:24.000 And a lot of these camps, like big MMA camps, they have scientists working in the camps making.

01:45:30.000 It's helping them cheat.

01:45:32.000 Oh, yeah.

01:45:33.000 Oh, yeah.

01:45:34.000 Now, not so much anymore.

01:45:35.000 This is scary.

01:45:36.000 Because then the UFC, it is scary.

01:45:39.000 But the thing is, everybody was doing it.

01:45:41.000 And then on top of that, you had an organization like Pride.

01:45:44.000 And I don't know if you're aware of Pride, but Pride was the big organization in Japan.

01:45:50.000 I mean, they were selling out 90,000-seat arenas in Japan for these promotions.

01:45:56.000 They were fucking huge.

01:45:57.000 And everyone was juiced to the tips.

01:46:01.000 I don't know if everybody was, but a lot.

01:46:03.000 I don't think Rampage was.

01:46:04.000 Rampage told me he never took steroids.

01:46:06.000 And I believe him.

01:46:07.000 But a lot of guys were juiced up.

01:46:10.000 And I know for a fact they were juiced up because they told me.

01:46:13.000 They told me.

01:46:15.000 And they also told me, like, Ensign Inyway, who fought for Pride, told me that on his contract.

01:46:20.000 Yeah, Ensign Inoue.

01:46:22.000 Yeah, like not the same last name.

01:46:27.000 Ensign, he was a great fighter, a pioneer at MMA.

01:46:30.000 Ensign told me that on his Pride contract, it said in all capital letters, we do not test for steroids.

01:46:38.000 I had a friend of fought in Japan, they encouraged him to take steroids.

01:46:42.000 See, this scared me because I got to get in the boxing ring and I know that people be cheating.

01:46:48.000 Some people cheat.

01:46:49.000 I know.

01:46:50.000 It's be like low-level fighters that you'll go there and you'll be like, why do this guy punch way harder than a lot of people?

01:46:59.000 I don't understand it.

01:46:59.000 Right.

01:47:00.000 And it's like, I don't.

01:47:01.000 Well, there's a few fighters in MMA that when steroids started being tested for, their body shrunk and then their power went away.

01:47:11.000 Like there were guys that were knocking everybody out and then all of a sudden they couldn't knock anybody out.

01:47:15.000 It's crazy.

01:47:16.000 I mean, there's so many stories in MMA where you see fighters' physiques just deflate.

01:47:23.000 Like they're a balloon.

01:47:24.000 They got air let out of them.

01:47:25.000 Like I seen it in boxing, though.

01:47:27.000 I see guys, they kind of like get caught with steroids.

01:47:30.000 And then they have a fight after that and it's like...

01:47:33.000 They look like shit.

01:47:34.000 Where did the power go?

01:47:35.000 Exactly.

01:47:35.000 All of their power?

01:47:38.000 That's a fact.

01:47:39.000 I get it.

01:47:40.000 That does happen.

01:47:41.000 And then there's also ways that we can't figure out what they're doing yet.

01:47:47.000 I mean, this has happened all throughout sports, right?

01:47:49.000 This was the whole thing with Barry Bonds and the Balko scandal in baseball.

01:47:53.000 They had developed a steroid called the Clear.

01:47:55.000 And what the Clear was was a steroid that was undetectable.

01:47:59.000 They hadn't figured it out, but eventually they got caught.

01:48:02.000 And so who knows what kind of shit it's not like they stopped trying to innovate and come up with ways to get an advantage.

01:48:08.000 There's definitely people doing it now.

01:48:10.000 But the way the UFC works now, first they brought in USADA.

01:48:15.000 Now they have a company called Drug Free Sport that does the same thing.

01:48:18.000 And they just show up and test you.

01:48:21.000 You don't get a notification it's going to happen next Tuesday.

01:48:24.000 So you can take a bunch of shit that clears it out of your system.

01:48:27.000 So they just show up, knock on your door.

01:48:29.000 Hey, it's time for a test.

01:48:31.000 And then you do.

01:48:32.000 That's how they should do it.

01:48:33.000 Vada do the same thing.

01:48:34.000 They just show up and you are ring blood.

01:48:38.000 Yep.

01:48:39.000 Just anytime.

01:48:40.000 Actually, my last camp, they tested me like four or five times.

01:48:45.000 God damn.

01:48:46.000 Well, that's the only way to know.

01:48:48.000 You got to show up randomly and test guys.

01:48:51.000 That's the only way to go.

01:48:52.000 I'm cool with it, though, because I ain't never ever really did anything when it comes to cheating.

01:48:58.000 But if you go, and this is, again, not casting any disparaging remarks about Roy, who's one of the greatest of all time.

01:49:04.000 But if you went back to the Ruiz fight, do you think they were testing him?

01:49:07.000 I fucking doubt it.

01:49:09.000 I fucking doubt it.

01:49:10.000 There was no VADA testing back then.

01:49:12.000 Then USATA was in boxing?

01:49:14.000 No.

01:49:15.000 I don't think so.

01:49:16.000 No, no.

01:49:17.000 I could have sworn they was in boxing.

01:49:19.000 Okay, let's find out.

01:49:20.000 Was the Roy Jones, John Ruiz Jr. fight, did they utilize VADA testing?

01:49:27.000 I don't think they did.

01:49:28.000 USATA?

01:49:28.000 USATA.

01:49:29.000 USATA.

01:49:30.000 Okay, USADA.

01:49:31.000 I don't think they did.

01:49:33.000 I don't think, I don't think they, look, that was always a thing about Manny.

01:49:37.000 Like, people always said that about Manny.

01:49:40.000 I heard that too.

01:49:41.000 Only reason why it was believable though, because I never...

01:49:41.000 right?

01:49:44.000 You went up eight weight classes.

01:49:45.000 I've never seen that in my life.

01:49:47.000 And kept the knockout power.

01:49:48.000 I've never seen that in my life.

01:49:50.000 Right.

01:49:51.000 I never in the history of the sport, you go from one, what, 109 or whatever he started at.

01:49:57.000 To 154 and you're just knocking guys out.

01:50:00.000 I know.

01:50:01.000 That's crazy.

01:50:02.000 And his physique.

01:50:04.000 I mean, he looks fantastic at every step of the way.

01:50:08.000 And he also had that dude, what'd it say, was not held under a modern UFC-style USATA program.

01:50:16.000 There's no record of being part of any independent year-round USATA VADA scheme like we see today.

01:50:22.000 So they just depended on the athletic commission.

01:50:24.000 Yeah, but again, the athletic commission.

01:50:28.000 That's an intelligence test.

01:50:30.000 I mean, I will show you, show him Aleister Overeem when he fought Brock Lesnar at the weigh-in.

01:50:39.000 Now, Aleister Overeem is the greatest example in MMA of a guy who, when he was on the juice, he was unstoppable.

01:50:48.000 Unstoppable.

01:50:49.000 They called him Uberim when he was unstoppable because he looked like a comic book superhero.

01:50:54.000 He was so jacked.

01:50:56.000 And then when they started doing USADA testing, he looked completely different.

01:51:00.000 I mean, completely different.

01:51:01.000 Yeah, he did.

01:51:02.000 He got softer.

01:51:03.000 He still looked good, but he didn't look like Uberim.

01:51:07.000 There's an image of him flexing on the scale.

01:51:10.000 Like, look at him right there.

01:51:12.000 Come on, son.

01:51:14.000 I mean, come on.

01:51:15.000 Look at that girl.

01:51:16.000 Look at Ariani's face when she's looking at his back.

01:51:19.000 She's like, what the fuck?

01:51:21.000 And that was, I mean, come on, man.

01:51:25.000 He was a fucking monster.

01:51:26.000 He was knocking guys out.

01:51:28.000 He was destroying everybody.

01:51:29.000 He was destroying everybody when he was juiced up.

01:51:33.000 And he started his career as a light heavyweight.

01:51:35.000 So he started his career as a 205-pound guy who was thin and skinny.

01:51:40.000 That's light heavyweight?

01:51:41.000 Yeah, that's light heavyweight.

01:51:42.000 The UFC's weight classes are all fucked up.

01:51:45.000 I know it's stupid.

01:51:45.000 They have the same names, but different weight classes.

01:51:47.000 So, like, Welter Waite is 170 in the UFC.

01:51:51.000 Yeah, look at him.

01:51:52.000 So, that's the difference between how he was when he was juicing versus how he was.

01:51:56.000 You see the difference?

01:51:58.000 It's crazy, right?

01:51:59.000 Isn't it crazy?

01:52:00.000 It's crazy.

01:52:02.000 Damn.

01:52:02.000 So, the guy on the right was just, he had to move more.

01:52:05.000 He was still very skillful.

01:52:07.000 He was a very skillful kickboxer, very skillful MMA fighter.

01:52:11.000 But, I mean, when that guy was fully jacked up and juiced, man, he was almost unstoppable.

01:52:18.000 See, that's why, man, that's why I be, I don't like that.

01:52:22.000 Like, that's my thing.

01:52:24.000 I do not want to get in the ring with somebody that's cheating.

01:52:26.000 Like, I feel like that's, but I'm so good to it.

01:52:30.000 Like, even if you are cheating, you ain't going to hit me.

01:52:36.000 You won't be much of a double-imagine if you're fighting a guy that's at your level, but he's cheating.

01:52:42.000 Yeah.

01:52:42.000 That's the problem.

01:52:44.000 That's the problem.

01:52:45.000 Right now, there's not really anybody in your division that's at that level that's like really compelling.

01:52:50.000 I mean, other than at 135 tank.

01:52:52.000 But imagine if there's someone that's at your level and you're pretty sure they're cheating.

01:52:57.000 That's got to fuck with your head.

01:52:59.000 Honestly, I feel like it's some competitive guys at these weight classes.

01:53:04.000 They just not know.

01:53:05.000 Right.

01:53:06.000 But it's some names that's like, okay, like even Lamont Roach.

01:53:10.000 Lamont Roach is very good.

01:53:12.000 That fight with Gervante was crazy because that was a knockdown.

01:53:16.000 That's a fucking knockdown.

01:53:18.000 He won.

01:53:18.000 He won for sure.

01:53:20.000 The fact that he took a knee and the referee didn't call it a knockdown, that's crazy.

01:53:25.000 Yeah, he won.

01:53:26.000 But to say, like, I'm just saying it is guys out there for me.

01:53:30.000 Lamont is a great example.

01:53:31.000 There'd be big fights and competitive fights.

01:53:33.000 And I done sparred Lamont, so I know Lamont is.

01:53:36.000 He's legit.

01:53:37.000 Yeah.

01:53:38.000 I mean, a lot of people did not know about him before that fight, but after that fight, I mean, look, that sucks, man, because that goes down on his record as a loss.

01:53:46.000 And that's was it a draw?

01:53:48.000 That's right.

01:53:48.000 Draw.

01:53:49.000 It was a draw.

01:53:50.000 And he won the fight?

01:53:51.000 He clearly won.

01:53:52.000 He won the fight?

01:53:53.000 Yeah.

01:53:54.000 I thought he won the fight anyway.

01:53:55.000 Yeah, I did too.

01:53:56.000 But the knockdown, like, you can't say I got shit in my hair and it got in my eyes and that's why I went down.

01:54:02.000 That's crazy.

01:54:03.000 That was very amateurish.

01:54:05.000 It was very amateurish.

01:54:05.000 It was weird, right?

01:54:07.000 I didn't.

01:54:07.000 It was weird.

01:54:08.000 I never saw nothing like that.

01:54:10.000 Well, it's like Gervante just looked like his head wasn't totally there in that fight.

01:54:15.000 Yeah, maybe.

01:54:17.000 So do you require VATA testing for all your fights?

01:54:20.000 And do you have that ability to do that?

01:54:22.000 Yes.

01:54:22.000 So in negotiations, you make sure that everybody's getting tested.

01:54:26.000 When it comes down to that.

01:54:27.000 Good for you.

01:54:28.000 I do not play that.

01:54:29.000 Yeah, good for you, man.

01:54:31.000 Good for you.

01:54:32.000 I mean, we're very fortunate that we have these testing bodies like that now available.

01:54:37.000 Because again, like, if they had, who knows what a lot of fighters' legacies would be if they were testing them at every step along the way.

01:54:45.000 Yeah, they'd get caught.

01:54:47.000 They get caught.

01:54:48.000 Yeah.

01:54:48.000 So with MMA, it was the wild west for a long time.

01:54:48.000 Yeah.

01:54:52.000 For a long time.

01:54:53.000 It was the wild, wild west.

01:54:55.000 Everybody was doing all kinds of shit.

01:54:57.000 I wouldn't be able to do that.

01:54:58.000 Like, I would not be able to get in the ring, lose to somebody, and then know they cheated me.

01:55:04.000 Right.

01:55:05.000 Because I don't know how I would react to that.

01:55:07.000 Like, that would be like one of the moments I may crash out and I don't do crash out things.

01:55:13.000 So I might crash out about like ain't no way you just cheated me, bro.

01:55:18.000 Right.

01:55:18.000 Ain't no way you just cheated me, bro.

01:55:20.000 Well, the thing is that with combat sports versus every other sport is your goal is to hurt your opponent.

01:55:27.000 And if there's a thing you're doing that's cheating that helps you hurt your opponent, that is a different kind of cheating.

01:55:33.000 It's not like cheating in baseball.

01:55:33.000 Yeah.

01:55:35.000 Like, who gives a fuck if you hit another home run?

01:55:37.000 I think they should all cheat in baseball.

01:55:39.000 I think they should all get on steroids.

01:55:41.000 Make it more exciting.

01:55:42.000 Like, because the only thing that's exciting about baseball is home runs.

01:55:46.000 Right?

01:55:46.000 Yeah, I get it.

01:55:47.000 That's the number one thing.

01:55:48.000 If you got a way that you guys can hit more home runs, fucking give it to them.

01:55:54.000 Yeah, it's like harmless.

01:55:54.000 Stupid.

01:55:55.000 Like, it's not really going to hurt anybody.

01:55:58.000 Exactly.

01:55:58.000 I get it.

01:55:59.000 Exactly.

01:55:59.000 But in boxing, it's like.

01:56:01.000 It's life or death.

01:56:02.000 Boxing is real life or death.

01:56:02.000 Yeah.

01:56:04.000 That's why I don't know how I would react.

01:56:07.000 Don't anybody watching this, please don't cheat me.

01:56:10.000 I am not the guy to be cheated.

01:56:12.000 So just understand that.

01:56:14.000 Well, I mean, whenever people are looking for shortcuts and people want to win, there's always going to be someone that's willing to do something that they're not supposed to be doing.

01:56:23.000 That ain't it, though.

01:56:24.000 Like, this, like you said, is life or death.

01:56:27.000 Life or death.

01:56:28.000 So you could cheat and hit somebody with the wrong shot, and then they did.

01:56:33.000 What's the guy that killed somebody?

01:56:35.000 Sabril Matias.

01:56:36.000 He killed the dude.

01:56:36.000 Right.

01:56:38.000 And now he just got popped for cheating.

01:56:40.000 So it's like.

01:56:41.000 Oh, he did?

01:56:42.000 Yeah.

01:56:42.000 I didn't know that.

01:56:43.000 What did he get popped for?

01:56:45.000 I don't even know.

01:56:46.000 He lost recently, right?

01:56:47.000 He lost right before the loss.

01:56:48.000 They had popped him for cheating.

01:56:50.000 I want to say Dalton Smith.

01:56:53.000 So he lost.

01:56:55.000 So he got popped and then he lost the next fight?

01:56:58.000 Yeah, they let him fight.

01:57:00.000 Wow.

01:57:01.000 Yep.

01:57:02.000 But it's like.

01:57:03.000 I wonder if he's the same guy after he got popped.

01:57:06.000 That's what I was saying.

01:57:08.000 I don't know either, but.

01:57:09.000 Because he was killing everybody.

01:57:10.000 I mean, he actually only killed one guy.

01:57:13.000 Yeah, but he actually killed somebody.

01:57:14.000 But if I'm the family of somebody that he killed and now he comes out as cheating, I will be like, hold up now, bro.

01:57:21.000 Can you see what Matias got popped for?

01:57:25.000 That's crazy.

01:57:26.000 He was.

01:57:28.000 Who's the dude who just beat him?

01:57:29.000 Dude, just stop.

01:57:30.000 Dalton Smith.

01:57:31.000 Yes.

01:57:31.000 Yeah.

01:57:32.000 That was a crazy fight.

01:57:33.000 That was crazy.

01:57:34.000 They would go to war.

01:57:35.000 Ooh, they went to war.

01:57:36.000 I mean, that was not an easy fight for him.

01:57:39.000 And Matias is a dangerous dude, man.

01:57:41.000 Yeah, that was a great performance by Dalton Smith, though.

01:57:44.000 Yeah.

01:57:44.000 People don't know back in the day when I was in the junior worlds, me and him went to the worlds together.

01:57:50.000 So, osterine.

01:57:51.000 Damn.

01:57:52.000 Everybody's on osterine.

01:57:54.000 I don't even know much about osterine.

01:57:54.000 What is it about?

01:57:56.000 What does osterine do, Jamie?

01:57:57.000 Let's find out what it does.

01:58:00.000 Osterine, selective androgen receptor modulator designed to treat muscle wasting conditions and osteoporosis by promoting muscle growth and bone density without the severe side effects of anabolic steroids.

01:58:16.000 Popular amongst bodybuilders for enhancing muscle mass and fat loss.

01:58:20.000 It's not approved for human consumption by the FDA, banned by WADA, and linked to side effects like liver toxicity, testosterone suppression, and cardiovascular risks.

01:58:32.000 So it helps you keep muscle and bone density.

01:58:36.000 Yeah.

01:58:37.000 Well, it makes it sense.

01:58:38.000 It makes sense that that would be a good supplement for boxers.

01:58:43.000 What are you showing me here?

01:58:44.000 People look like I'm talking about it.

01:58:45.000 Before or after.

01:58:46.000 Look at that guy.

01:58:47.000 The one you got your link on.

01:58:49.000 Jesus.

01:58:50.000 Well, he looks like he's faking it in the third picture.

01:58:57.000 But, I mean, you're always going to have certain people that are going to cheat.

01:59:02.000 I hate it.

01:59:03.000 Are there any like world title fights that take place that don't have VADA testing?

01:59:09.000 Yeah, I think it is.

01:59:10.000 I think people fight without it, but I don't.

01:59:13.000 I don't play that.

01:59:14.000 Yeah.

01:59:15.000 I don't play that.

01:59:16.000 I be thinking, man, I'd have sparred the dude in the gym that was not good one time.

01:59:21.000 Like, he's not good at all.

01:59:23.000 But I'm sparring him.

01:59:24.000 I'm like, man, this dude punched harder than everybody I've ever been in the ring with.

01:59:29.000 And I wonder, like, dude, did that dude, do he be cheating?

01:59:33.000 Well, some dudes just have natural God-given power, too.

01:59:36.000 When you like fat, not kind of like you out of shape, then you just punch super hard and it's slow, but it's like boom, boom.

01:59:46.000 I be thinking people be cheating.

01:59:48.000 They might be, but they might just have the gift.

01:59:51.000 Yeah, that's true.

01:59:52.000 The thing about boxing is punching power, you can enhance your punching power, but that crazy punching power, that's a gift with it.

02:00:00.000 Yeah, you're born with it.

02:00:01.000 Like Ernie Shavers type punching power or Deontay.

02:00:05.000 Wilder.

02:00:06.000 Wilder.

02:00:06.000 The greatest example ever.

02:00:08.000 Oh, my God.

02:00:09.000 One shot with Teddy Atlas is the best example.

02:00:12.000 He called it the eraser.

02:00:13.000 All the mistakes you made, it doesn't matter.

02:00:16.000 Yeah, because I sit there and watch Wilder, and I'm like, dog, it's some fights that I see him not punch at all until the shot is there.

02:00:24.000 Right.

02:00:25.000 And when the shot is there, he got you.

02:00:27.000 It's over.

02:00:28.000 It's crazy.

02:00:29.000 It's already hit.

02:00:30.000 I mean, he might be the greatest one-punch knockout artist in the history of the heavyweight.

02:00:34.000 I think he is.

02:00:35.000 I think it's like no question.

02:00:36.000 Like, he is probably the hardest puncher that ever walks.

02:00:40.000 He's up there.

02:00:41.000 I mean, Ernie Shavers back in the day.

02:00:44.000 Punch harder than Wilder.

02:00:45.000 Wow, they all said Ernie Shavers was the like even Ali said nobody hit harder than Ernie Shavers.

02:00:50.000 Wilder.

02:00:51.000 I know, I know.

02:00:53.000 And you think about Wilder, too, is he's not big.

02:00:56.000 He only weighed 209 when he fought Tyson Fury the first time.

02:00:59.000 That right hand he got crazy.

02:01:01.000 I don't think nobody could take it.

02:01:03.000 It's crazy.

02:01:03.000 I don't think nobody could take it.

02:01:04.000 I'm not gonna lie.

02:01:05.000 I saw Fairy take it, but you know what he's like?

02:01:08.000 He's like giant Tommy Hearns.

02:01:10.000 Yeah.

02:01:11.000 That's what it's like.

02:01:12.000 Long leverage, just torque, the width of the shoulders, the snap of the punch, just blap.

02:01:19.000 I wish he retired, though.

02:01:20.000 Like, I feel like he.

02:01:23.000 What else is there to do?

02:01:24.000 Like, you done did a lot in this sport.

02:01:26.000 You done made a lot of money.

02:01:27.000 I just wish certain guys just like, okay.

02:01:30.000 I know.

02:01:31.000 I know.

02:01:32.000 What am I doing this for now?

02:01:33.000 Well, he's going to fight Derek Chisora, which is interesting because they're both the same age.

02:01:38.000 They both have 50 fights.

02:01:40.000 They're both kind of in the same, but you know.

02:01:43.000 I like Derek Chazora.

02:01:45.000 He's a cool dude, too.

02:01:46.000 He seems cool.

02:01:47.000 Yeah.

02:01:47.000 I mean, it's a great time for boxing.

02:01:49.000 There's a lot of talent.

02:01:50.000 A lot of very, very compelling matchups.

02:01:53.000 Are they going to do a Bival Better B of rematch?

02:01:57.000 Are they going to do a trilogy?

02:01:59.000 I want to see Bival versus Benavidez.

02:02:02.000 That's the fight.

02:02:03.000 Like, I don't.

02:02:04.000 Well, the fight was Benavidez versus Canelo.

02:02:07.000 That never could get made for some reason.

02:02:10.000 That dude is just too big for Canelo, though.

02:02:14.000 I see both sides.

02:02:15.000 Like, I love Benavidez and I'm a fan of him.

02:02:19.000 So I see the side of like, like, fight me, bro.

02:02:24.000 You the guy.

02:02:24.000 I'm the guy.

02:02:25.000 We number one, number one.

02:02:26.000 Let's fight.

02:02:27.000 But then I see Canelo's side.

02:02:29.000 He's like, man, this dude is 200 pounds on the regular.

02:02:33.000 And I'm nowhere near that weight.

02:02:33.000 Right.

02:02:35.000 So it's like, why would I fight this guy?

02:02:38.000 Like, I don't think it's fair.

02:02:40.000 Like, that's how he's feeling.

02:02:42.000 Yeah, I understand it.

02:02:43.000 But Canelo went up and fought Bival.

02:02:46.000 But he knew he didn't, he didn't.

02:02:49.000 He didn't think Buval was going to be him.

02:02:51.000 You don't think so?

02:02:52.000 Nah.

02:02:52.000 Well, he didn't think, he thought he was going to beat Buval.

02:02:55.000 After Bival beat him, you think that killed the chances?

02:02:58.000 Yeah, but he knew it's time.

02:03:00.000 I cannot fight these guys that's super big.

02:03:03.000 I love watching Benavidez fight.

02:03:05.000 He's a motherfucker.

02:03:06.000 He's a killer.

02:03:07.000 He is a fucking kid.

02:03:08.000 He did something to help my hands.

02:03:09.000 He told me to put on the gloves that I'll be wearing on fight night.

02:03:12.000 And they helped my hands.

02:03:14.000 So I appreciate him too.

02:03:15.000 Do you do anything to strengthen your hands?

02:03:17.000 Do you do exercises?

02:03:19.000 Yeah, it's a.

02:03:20.000 I can't tell everybody.

02:03:22.000 I can't tell everybody.

02:03:23.000 All right.

02:03:24.000 Yeah, I'll tell you later.

02:03:24.000 Tell me later.

02:03:26.000 There's a bunch of different things people do.

02:03:28.000 Like buckets of rice is a big one.

02:03:31.000 I do that too.

02:03:31.000 Oh, yeah, for sure.

02:03:32.000 Yeah.

02:03:33.000 Moving your hands around in buckets.

02:03:34.000 What is it?

02:03:35.000 Benavidez targets to beat you, Bival.

02:03:37.000 Oh, there we go.

02:03:38.000 That's the fight.

02:03:39.000 That's the fight.

02:03:40.000 That's the best versus the best.

02:03:41.000 I think that's one of the best fights to make in the sport of boxing.

02:03:44.000 Well, he's fighting Ramirez at cruiserweight, right?

02:03:47.000 And then he's going to drop back down to light heavyweight and fight Bival.

02:03:47.000 Yeah.

02:03:50.000 I like that.

02:03:51.000 Yeah.

02:03:52.000 I want to make the biggest and the best fights happening.

02:03:55.000 Fuck yeah.

02:03:56.000 Yeah, that's one of the best fights in the sport.

02:03:58.000 Arthur Better B.

02:03:59.000 But Better B is like 40 now.

02:04:01.000 Yeah.

02:04:01.000 He's the truth, though, too.

02:04:02.000 Oh, he's the truth.

02:04:03.000 He was a crusher forever.

02:04:06.000 He punched too hard.

02:04:07.000 Oh, my God.

02:04:08.000 He had another one.

02:04:09.000 He bangs dudes out.

02:04:11.000 He's got a crazy style.

02:04:12.000 Yeah.

02:04:14.000 It's funny when people sparred him.

02:04:16.000 They have these stories.

02:04:18.000 Yeah.

02:04:18.000 Like he hits you and you're like, what just happened?

02:04:20.000 Yeah.

02:04:21.000 I could see it, though.

02:04:21.000 When I watched him fight Bavar, I'm front row.

02:04:25.000 And like Bavar liked to catch shots on his glove and like I could see like how hard he was punching his glove.

02:04:32.000 Like, damn.

02:04:34.000 I don't know how Bavar is taking that.

02:04:36.000 I know, and he was 39 back then.

02:04:38.000 Yeah.

02:04:39.000 That's what's crazy.

02:04:40.000 It's like we missed his prime.

02:04:42.000 Yeah.

02:04:43.000 Unfortunately.

02:04:44.000 We've seen one fight where he fought the overseas guy, Gavard something, and he beat him up.

02:04:44.000 Yeah.

02:04:52.000 Oh, man.

02:04:53.000 God, he beat him up.

02:04:55.000 Well, he was at one point in time, wasn't he like 39 and oh, with 39 knockouts, which is just nuts.

02:05:01.000 Yeah.

02:05:02.000 At that level, that is just nuts.

02:05:05.000 It's just nuts that he stopped everybody.

02:05:07.000 And it looks natural, too.

02:05:08.000 It don't look like he's like stealing crazy.

02:05:11.000 No, it's not.

02:05:12.000 It looks very natural.

02:05:13.000 But didn't he get in trouble caught with something?

02:05:15.000 He got caught with something?

02:05:17.000 Yeah, put that better B. Not Better BF.

02:05:22.000 I feel like I might be wrong, but I feel like maybe there was a tainted supplement.

02:05:31.000 Man, come on.

02:05:32.000 Not Better B.

02:05:34.000 I think so.

02:05:35.000 I might be wrong.

02:05:36.000 Yeah, you got to be wrong.

02:05:37.000 If I'm wrong, I apologize.

02:05:38.000 You got to be wrong for Better BF.

02:05:40.000 This was 2024, or is that?

02:05:42.000 Atypical.

02:05:43.000 Yeah, this is what it was.

02:05:46.000 Atypical drug test result.

02:05:48.000 Adverse findings may have threatened.

02:05:49.000 Now, what does that mean?

02:05:50.000 What does it say?

02:05:51.000 Look at Conor McGregor.

02:05:52.000 Look at Conor McGregor screaming and yelling.

02:05:55.000 What does it say?

02:05:57.000 What did he get caught with?

02:06:00.000 Atypical finding is not a violation.

02:06:02.000 It requires more testing.

02:06:03.000 BetterB underwent those examinations at VADA request.

02:06:06.000 VADA reported negative results from the follow-up test.

02:06:09.000 So what was the positive test?

02:06:13.000 Hmm.

02:06:14.000 What does that mean?

02:06:15.000 Yeah, what do that mean?

02:06:16.000 Oh, here it goes.

02:06:17.000 He received atypical findings for human growth hormone and 5D androstanodiol.

02:06:25.000 Both occur naturally in the body.

02:06:28.000 When an atypical finding is received, further testing is required to determine if an athlete naturally produces the substance in his body his or her body at a greater level than the average or elevated levels, which were signs of anti-doping.

02:06:42.000 Okay, so it could just be that he just has naturally high levels of HGH and this 5D androstanidiol.

02:06:42.000 Interesting.

02:06:55.000 So that might be what it is.

02:06:57.000 Or could be some sneaky shit.

02:07:01.000 You know, I mean, did you ever see the documentary Icarus?

02:07:08.000 This is a great documentary about the drug scandal in the Olympics in Russia.

02:07:16.000 And so this was, what was this, 2016?

02:07:20.000 Which was it, Jamie?

02:07:22.000 Was that the Olympics I was at?

02:07:24.000 Yeah.

02:07:24.000 I was there.

02:07:26.000 And they banned the whole Russian team.

02:07:28.000 Exactly.

02:07:28.000 I thought that was 2020, though.

02:07:30.000 They banned the Russian team in the follow-up Olympics, I believe.

02:07:34.000 Because of the 2016.

02:07:35.000 So this guy, Brian Fogel, did this documentary.

02:07:38.000 It's a crazy documentary.

02:07:39.000 And the documentary was not supposed to be.

02:07:41.000 2014 Winter Olympics.

02:07:43.000 2014 Winter Olympics.

02:07:45.000 So what happened was Brian Fogel was doing a documentary.

02:07:49.000 So he's a cyclist and a documentary guy.

02:07:53.000 And so he said, I want to do a cycling event, a race, completely natural.

02:07:59.000 And then I want to do it on steroids.

02:08:01.000 And I want to document it all.

02:08:03.000 And then, you know, make this documentary on what is the difference and just show everyone.

02:08:07.000 Because cycling is a very dirty sport.

02:08:10.000 Like Tour de France, those guys, they put engines in their fucking bike to make it easier to pedal.

02:08:16.000 They do a lot of crazy shit.

02:08:17.000 Blood doping.

02:08:18.000 So he does this naturally.

02:08:20.000 And then he gets this guy.

02:08:24.000 What was his name again?

02:08:25.000 Richenko.

02:08:27.000 Gregory Richenko.

02:08:28.000 Who was Richenkov?

02:08:30.000 Who was the head of the Russian anti-doping federation?

02:08:34.000 But it was really a doping federation.

02:08:36.000 So what they were doing at the time was, so he starts working with this guy.

02:08:43.000 This guy's telling him what steroids to take and how to get better.

02:08:46.000 At the same time, the Russians get caught.

02:08:49.000 Like while he's filming all this, and that guy has to leave the country.

02:08:53.000 And that guy spills the beans and he tells them exactly what they did.

02:08:56.000 And what they did was they took the clean urine, they made a hole in the wall.

02:09:00.000 So the place where they stored all the urine, they made a hole in the wall where they could swap out the Russian urine and swap it in for good urine.

02:09:10.000 And they found these microabrasions on these supposedly unopenable jars.

02:09:16.000 And so when they looked at it with a microscope, they said they figured out a way to open these jars.

02:09:22.000 So they would pass it through the hole in the wall, open the jar, empty it out, put in clean piss, and give it back to him.

02:09:30.000 So essentially the entire team was doped up.

02:09:34.000 Yeah, so basically that's why they say in the Olympics, they wasn't sure if Russia was going to be able to compete, right?

02:09:40.000 Exactly.

02:09:41.000 And so in Brazil, the follow-up Olympics, the next Olympics, the entire team couldn't compete.

02:09:47.000 The cycling team.

02:09:49.000 No, the entire Russian team.

02:09:52.000 So the cycling thing was just this guy that was doing this documentary, and he was using the head of the Russian anti-doping agency to help him do it, like openly.

02:10:00.000 So it was just for a documentary.

02:10:02.000 It wasn't like trying to win a race and cheat.

02:10:04.000 He was like saying, let's see what you would give me and how much better my performance would be.

02:10:09.000 So in the middle of doing all this, this scandal gets exposed.

02:10:14.000 And this guy who he's using is at the head of the scandal.

02:10:17.000 And then this guy tells him everything.

02:10:20.000 And it's nuts.

02:10:20.000 Russia did compete in the Olympics, though.

02:10:23.000 They did compete in 2016.

02:10:26.000 They must have didn't compete in 2020 then.

02:10:28.000 Well, it was one of the, I think they allowed individual athletes to compete, whatever the subsequent Olympics was, but they didn't allow them to represent Russia.

02:10:38.000 Okay, yeah, because it was a guy from Russia in my weight class.

02:10:42.000 Oh, yeah.

02:10:43.000 And on 2016 Olympics.

02:10:45.000 He did it was kind of strong, too.

02:10:49.000 Well, the Russians, I mean, they were the beginning of all this stuff.

02:10:54.000 Like the Eastern European women, weightlifting.

02:10:57.000 So they came up with the cheats.

02:10:59.000 Well, they figured it out.

02:11:00.000 They figured it out early on.

02:11:02.000 They've been doing it a long ass time.

02:11:05.000 Yeah.

02:11:06.000 So who knows with Better B or any of these guys.

02:11:11.000 You've got to always assume that without something like Vada or Drug-Free Sport or USADA, there's always going to be someone who's trying to figure out a way to get a competitive advantage.

02:11:23.000 Yeah, I hate it.

02:11:24.000 It's gross.

02:11:26.000 It comes with it, though.

02:11:26.000 I hate it.

02:11:27.000 Yeah, it comes with it.

02:11:28.000 It is what it is.

02:11:30.000 So anything else you want to cover before we wrap this up?

02:11:35.000 Nah, I ain't got nothing else.

02:11:36.000 I think we're good.

02:11:37.000 Listen, man, congratulations on everything.

02:11:39.000 It's been beautiful to watch you fight.

02:11:40.000 I'm a giant fan, and I'm happy to see after the Lopez fight, you get all the respect and the credit that you deserve.

02:11:47.000 And I can't wait to see what happens next.

02:11:49.000 Thank you.

02:11:50.000 I appreciate you, and I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to come on the podcast.

02:11:58.000 Thanks very much.

02:11:58.000 I appreciate you.

02:11:59.000 My honor.

02:12:00.000 All right.

The Joe Rogan Experience - March 06, 2026

JRE MMA Show #175 with Shakur Stevenson

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