The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #176 with Dustin Poirier

00:00:15.000 Dustin Poyer, the light heavyweight.

00:00:19.000 It's Thick Boy Summer.

00:00:20.000 You're looking healthy, son.

00:00:21.000 Yeah, like 190, man.

00:00:23.000 You look good, man.

00:00:24.000 It feels good to eat and not count carbohydrates and calories.

00:00:24.000 I feel good, dude.

00:00:27.000 Yeah, we were talking about that.

00:00:28.000 Where you like still, like a little part of you is like looks at meals and goes, oh.

00:00:33.000 Well, I mean, for the last 20 years, I've been macro and, you know, I knew I had a fight coming up.

00:00:38.000 Even if I didn't have a fight, I had to be in striking range from 155.

00:00:41.000 Right.

00:00:41.000 So I was always looking at the back of every label, being real cautious of what I eat.

00:00:45.000 It's like ingrained in my daughter now.

00:00:46.000 When we go to Whole Foods, she'll grab something off the counter and say, Dad, it only has three ingredients.

00:00:50.000 Like, she knows what's up.

00:00:52.000 Well, it's good to think that way anyway.

00:00:54.000 For sure.

00:00:55.000 Especially with the ingredients.

00:00:56.000 Yeah, that's the first thing she goes to.

00:00:58.000 Like, if she wants some chips, it only has five ingredients.

00:01:01.000 That's like a thing for her when we're shopping.

00:01:04.000 Yeah, well, that's smart, man.

00:01:06.000 You're raising them right.

00:01:06.000 That's cool.

00:01:07.000 Trying to, bro.

00:01:08.000 I'm trying to put the stuff I learned in fighting, you know, all the years to good use.

00:01:13.000 It is kind of crazy.

00:01:15.000 I think it's the worst thing about fighting is the weight cutting.

00:01:18.000 Can you imagine if everybody just, first of all, tell me if you agree, but I think the UFC needs way more weight cutting.

00:01:26.000 I do too.

00:01:26.000 Way more.

00:01:27.000 I do too.

00:01:29.000 Because the gaps are so big.

00:01:31.000 I mean, just if you look at boxing compared to mixed martial arts, the jumps in weight are so big from each weight class.

00:01:37.000 But also, all the shows they're putting on, they'd have more titles, more belts, more big fights.

00:01:42.000 But also, man, with that, there's going to be a lot of people trying to cut a little bit extra, trying to be double champ in every weight class.

00:01:47.000 I think it does cause more confusion.

00:01:50.000 Yeah, but that's better than the extreme weight cuts.

00:01:54.000 The extreme weight cuts are terrible.

00:01:55.000 You saw that dude a few, like, I guess it was about three events ago, who faceplanted and got removed off the card.

00:02:02.000 That is crazy.

00:02:02.000 Yeah.

00:02:03.000 You're getting someone to the brink of death 24 hours before they have an MMA fight, which is the most, if not the most dangerous sport, one of the most dangerous sports in the world for sure.

00:02:14.000 And you're doing something to your body to extremely weaken it 24 hours before you fight.

00:02:19.000 It's bananas.

00:02:21.000 Dude, I did it so many times.

00:02:22.000 You preach it to the choir.

00:02:23.000 I know.

00:02:24.000 There's been so many times I felt like that, like stand up too quick after a weight cut, and I'm like, you know, I might go down.

00:02:29.000 Oh, dude, I mean, I can only imagine when you see someone like Pereira that's cutting like 25 pounds and more when he was 185.

00:02:38.000 I mean, that guy was fighting inside the octagon at 225 and weighing in at 185 24 hours before.

00:02:48.000 That's crazy.

00:02:49.000 And even when he's big, he's lean.

00:02:50.000 You know, it's not like he's fluffy.

00:02:52.000 Well, they say that when you're muscular, it's easier to cut weight.

00:02:58.000 More water.

00:02:59.000 Yeah.

00:02:59.000 Yeah, which is counterintuitive.

00:03:01.000 You see a fat guy, you're like, oh, that guy can cut weight.

00:03:04.000 But you really can't because you can't deplenish your fat.

00:03:08.000 Right.

00:03:08.000 Not in a training camp's time, eight weeks, 10 weeks, you can't lose like 30 pounds of fat, but I said deplenish like it was a real word.

00:03:15.000 You can dehydrate yourself.

00:03:17.000 I don't think it is a word.

00:03:18.000 Deplenish?

00:03:19.000 Well, if you can replenish.

00:03:20.000 Right, but no one says deplenish.

00:03:22.000 Can you plenish?

00:03:23.000 No, you say deplete.

00:03:24.000 But I just threw it out there like it was real.

00:03:26.000 I don't think deplenish is a word.

00:03:29.000 Is that a word?

00:03:30.000 Yeah.

00:03:30.000 It is?

00:03:31.000 I don't think I've ever used it that weight.

00:03:33.000 Oh, okay.

00:03:34.000 Nice, man.

00:03:35.000 Nice.

00:03:36.000 That was just luck.

00:03:36.000 I got lucky.

00:03:38.000 But I talked to Hunter about it, Hunter Campbell, and we're trying to figure out a way.

00:03:44.000 Without, it has to be more weight classes.

00:03:47.000 I mean, California instituted a bunch of different weight classes.

00:03:52.000 I think they were doing it every 10 pounds.

00:03:54.000 I think California also did like a percentage of your body weight.

00:03:58.000 Like, I don't know, what was it, 15, 20%?

00:04:00.000 You couldn't dehydrate more than that.

00:04:01.000 That guy, Andy Foster, is on the ball.

00:04:03.000 And I think that's good, you know?

00:04:05.000 20% or whatever, some kind of rule where guys aren't cutting 50 pounds or 45.

00:04:05.000 Yeah.

00:04:10.000 That's still crazy.

00:04:11.000 Yeah, it's still crazy.

00:04:12.000 I mean, if you're tough.

00:04:13.000 Yeah, you're right.

00:04:14.000 200 pounds, 40 pounds.

00:04:15.000 I mean, it's a lot of weight.

00:04:17.000 Well, that's another thing that freaks boxers out when I tell them that there's a weight limit at heavyweight.

00:04:22.000 265.

00:04:24.000 That doesn't make any sense.

00:04:25.000 I go, I agree.

00:04:27.000 Why is there a weight limit for heavyweight?

00:04:29.000 That's crazy.

00:04:30.000 Dude, that gap, too, like 205, anything over that, you can be 210 to 265.

00:04:37.000 That's crazy.

00:04:38.000 That's crazy.

00:04:38.000 A 50-pound gap.

00:04:41.000 Well, heavyweight in boxing, like, look, Mike Tyson, when he was in his prime, was only like 220, 215, 220.

00:04:48.000 You know, that's where he, when he was dominating, that's where he kind of fell in that weight limit.

00:04:54.000 I wouldn't, I think it would be a good idea.

00:04:55.000 Anything past like 230, 235, super heavyweight.

00:04:58.000 Yeah.

00:04:59.000 You know, well, the difference in boxing, though, is the grappling.

00:05:02.000 The grappling in MMA, the gap, if a guy gets on top of you, is immense.

00:05:06.000 Yeah.

00:05:07.000 If you got a, like Ngana, when he was in his prime, was weighing over like 300 pounds and then cutting down to 265.

00:05:14.000 He was a 300-pound natural.

00:05:17.000 He's a guy who's like a knockdown power for sure, but grappling, like if you get a big guy who's 265 and knows how to grapple very well, wrestled his whole life, they get inside control or half guard, you're not getting up.

00:05:29.000 That's the end of the round.

00:05:30.000 Yeah.

00:05:31.000 Also, if they did do a super heavy, the fights might be either awesome or it's completely sucked.

00:05:37.000 Well, I think it should be heavyweight should be unlimited.

00:05:40.000 And then you'll scam down.

00:05:41.000 Yeah.

00:05:42.000 Because like Kane Velasquez, no one's holding that dude down in his prime.

00:05:45.000 Even when he was 240.

00:05:47.000 When he was 240 and he fought Lesnar, Lesnar was gigantic, but it didn't matter because the cardio that Kane had and the speed and his technique sort of it was ahead of his time.

00:05:58.000 He was ahead of his time.

00:05:59.000 He was like a hybrid, can do everything, great cardio, good athlete before MMA got to where it's at now.

00:06:05.000 Yeah.

00:06:06.000 The one fight that I always say that we missed is Kane and Fedor in their primes.

00:06:10.000 Because they were both in their prime at the same time and they never made that happen.

00:06:14.000 When UFC absorbed the Pride roster and stuff, I was crazy.

00:06:18.000 It's crazy that Fedor never fought in the UFC at all, man.

00:06:21.000 Well, they tried.

00:06:23.000 The UFC tried, but Fedor's management were a bunch of very dangerous dudes.

00:06:27.000 Yeah, you don't mess around with those guys.

00:06:29.000 Yeah, man.

00:06:30.000 It was like tense negotiations, and they wanted a percentage of the promotion.

00:06:34.000 They wanted a lot more than just a big purse.

00:06:36.000 Yeah, UFC's not playing that game.

00:06:38.000 They were like, look, we'll give you, you know, a very healthy purse.

00:06:38.000 No.

00:06:43.000 We'll bring Fedor over here.

00:06:44.000 But the problem was when they purchased Pride, they thought they were getting everyone's contracts, but the contracts were all bullshit.

00:06:50.000 Well, some guys came over on crazy, crazy money contracts.

00:06:54.000 I think Dan Henderson might have been one.

00:06:56.000 I was a young fighter one time and I was making, this might have been 2013 or something, 2014, I don't know.

00:07:04.000 And they came to give me my check.

00:07:06.000 This is back in the day before they wired.

00:07:07.000 They used to give us checks on fight night.

00:07:09.000 And they were going through the checks, and I saw Dan's, and I saw the number, and I couldn't believe it.

00:07:15.000 This is before people posting online fighter pay and all that.

00:07:17.000 And I saw the numbers he was making.

00:07:18.000 I was like, no way, guy's rich.

00:07:22.000 Does it make you angry?

00:07:23.000 Nah, nah.

00:07:24.000 Because the future, myself looking back or looking forward when guys are going to be fighting for belts and stuff, the money they're going to make in five years, I'm going to be that guy.

00:07:33.000 Like, damn, you know, I got out too early.

00:07:36.000 You know how it is.

00:07:36.000 The next generation always gets more.

00:07:38.000 Mike Brown tells me that all the time.

00:07:38.000 Right.

00:07:40.000 I was fighting for the belt in WEC defending it, making this.

00:07:43.000 You guys on the prelims are making more than I was making, you know?

00:07:47.000 Yeah, there's a weird that sort of discussion about fight or pay.

00:07:52.000 You know, I've always been of the opinion that fighters should be making more money, period.

00:07:56.000 Because the same way I feel about the way I run my comedy club, the comedians make 80% of the money.

00:08:03.000 Because I feel like that's who you're paying to see.

00:08:06.000 You're paying to see them.

00:08:07.000 We make plenty of money, like with drinks and 20% of the ticket sales.

00:08:11.000 It's like it's enough.

00:08:14.000 If we had a comedy club and there's no comedians, no one's coming, right?

00:08:19.000 No one's going to pay just to sit there and buy drinks.

00:08:22.000 The whole idea is they're paying to see someone's work.

00:08:25.000 If you fight, that's what people are paying to see.

00:08:29.000 They're paying to see fighters.

00:08:30.000 Without the fighters, there's no show.

00:08:31.000 Without the comedians, there's no show.

00:08:33.000 I understand.

00:08:33.000 But I think the big thing with the discussion of fighter pay is the percentages.

00:08:38.000 When you look at other major organizations like NFL, NBA, the percentages are so different.

00:08:43.000 Yeah, it's not good.

00:08:44.000 But dude, at the end of the day, I'm all for fighter pay too.

00:08:47.000 I've been fighting my whole life.

00:08:48.000 But you sign the contract, you agree.

00:08:51.000 This is how business is done.

00:08:52.000 Push for, try to get more of what you're worth.

00:08:54.000 You know, you can't sign a contract and complain.

00:08:56.000 That's true too, but also it's like the reality of MMA is if you're not in the UFC, people are not paying attention.

00:08:56.000 Right.

00:09:05.000 That's unsure, but it's reality.

00:09:07.000 Yeah.

00:09:07.000 You know, and I think there's some really good fighters that fight in the PFL and really good fighters that fight in one, but they don't, no one knows who they are other than the hardcore dudes.

00:09:18.000 Right.

00:09:19.000 Yeah, I got a buddy Johnny Eblin, who was the Bellator champion.

00:09:22.000 Awesome.

00:09:22.000 I've been training with him since he started MMA when he got out of college wrestling and stuff.

00:09:26.000 Like right now, he can go to the UFC and give the top five guys a run for their money.

00:09:30.000 There's no doubt in my mind.

00:09:31.000 He's only getting better.

00:09:32.000 Just because you fight in the UFC, that's a great organization to fight for, the biggest, the most known worldwide.

00:09:38.000 But dude, there's great fighters everywhere.

00:09:41.000 You know, like on the mats at American Top Team, there's a dozen guys you've never heard of that can make a run in the UFC right now.

00:09:47.000 That's what I heard is a nightmare about training at American Top Team.

00:09:51.000 Because it's a revolving door, man.

00:09:52.000 There's like 100 professional fighters on the mats at all times.

00:09:56.000 Different camps.

00:09:57.000 They have dorms.

00:09:58.000 So guys are from Russia, guys from all over the world are just in.

00:10:00.000 You never know who's going to be there.

00:10:02.000 And it's tough rounds.

00:10:04.000 Every practice is tough.

00:10:05.000 Well, not only that, but I've heard there's like guys coming in from Russia and they'll throw oblique kicks at your knees and you're like, hey, man, like, what are we doing here?

00:10:14.000 We're getting ready for fights.

00:10:15.000 We're not in a fight.

00:10:16.000 Right.

00:10:16.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:10:17.000 Like, some of these guys are trying to make their name off of a name guy.

00:10:20.000 And so you have to be very selective in who you spar with.

00:10:23.000 For sure.

00:10:24.000 And that's any, not just American Top Team, especially guys who are established.

00:10:27.000 Like, if I go to any gym here in Austin and it's open mat or something, I have a target on my back.

00:10:32.000 You know, that's everywhere.

00:10:32.000 Of course.

00:10:33.000 Of course.

00:10:34.000 But those guys, man, like at a big gym like American Top Team with the knowledge and the good coaches, those guys get weeded out.

00:10:39.000 You know, you won't stay there long if you're doing that stuff.

00:10:42.000 The problem is if you're one of the guys that has to weed them out, like you find out early on, this dude's, you know, throwing wheel kicks full blast.

00:10:50.000 And that happens all the time.

00:10:51.000 Oh, yeah.

00:10:52.000 Well, just, you know, makes sense.

00:10:54.000 I mean, you're from Dagestan or Chechnya or whatever, and you come to America.

00:10:58.000 It's like, this is your big chance.

00:10:59.000 And I do like to train hard to prepare for a fight.

00:11:01.000 You got to fight.

00:11:02.000 But, you know, you got to take care of each other.

00:11:04.000 We're feeding our family with this.

00:11:04.000 We're professionals.

00:11:06.000 Yeah.

00:11:07.000 And injury can ruin everything.

00:11:09.000 Well, there's so many fighters that get concussions in training.

00:11:12.000 And then, you know, they get chinny when they get into the fight.

00:11:14.000 It happens all the time.

00:11:16.000 Yeah.

00:11:17.000 Especially the early days.

00:11:18.000 There was a lot of guys who got hit.

00:11:20.000 Me.

00:11:21.000 Like the early days, we didn't really have classes that were organized, man.

00:11:21.000 Yeah.

00:11:27.000 It was just sparring and choking each other out and with four-ounce gloves sparring.

00:11:30.000 Like we didn't know.

00:11:31.000 We didn't know.

00:11:32.000 Isn't that crazy?

00:11:33.000 Like 2006, dude, we used to beat each other up every day.

00:11:37.000 That was MMA training.

00:11:39.000 And then it wasn't these super gyms where everything was under one roof.

00:11:41.000 I would drive to a boxing gym, drive another 45 minutes to a jiu-jitsu gym.

00:11:45.000 You know, it was put everything together on fight night, but you would train everywhere else because there wasn't mixed martial arts gyms back then, really.

00:11:53.000 I would drive to a kickboxing gym, boxing gym, wrestling, jiu-jitsu.

00:11:57.000 It was all separate.

00:11:58.000 Well, also, you were in a place that didn't have like a high volume of MMA fighters in your state.

00:12:05.000 Right back then, like Rich Clementi, Melvin Gillard were the big guys from Louisiana, you know.

00:12:13.000 Right.

00:12:13.000 Then Tim Crater came and got crazy Tim got on the Ultimate Fighter, and then I went to his gym once he got out of the TV show.

00:12:21.000 And me and him trained for years and years.

00:12:23.000 He still has a gym in Life Air, Louisiana.

00:12:25.000 I love Tim.

00:12:26.000 I've known Tim since I first worked out with him in like 98 at Machado's.

00:12:31.000 Well, he was in maybe the Navy, so he was in California station there, and I think that's when he started Jiu-Jitsu.

00:12:36.000 He was Louisiana's first black belt.

00:12:38.000 Oh, wow.

00:12:39.000 Yeah.

00:12:40.000 Yeah.

00:12:40.000 I knew him from that.

00:12:41.000 And then he was fighting and he was fighting in the UFC.

00:12:45.000 He was always around the MMA scene.

00:12:46.000 Him and Eve Edwards were good friends.

00:12:48.000 They opened a gym maybe in Houston or something.

00:12:50.000 He was cornering Eve in Pride.

00:12:52.000 And then I met Eve through Tim.

00:12:54.000 And it's just, it's a big family, man.

00:12:55.000 Eve's a guy that I always say there was a time where he was the best 155-pounder on earth.

00:13:01.000 When he beat Josh Thompson.

00:13:02.000 He's the uncrowned champion.

00:13:02.000 Yes.

00:13:04.000 He should have been the uncrowned champion.

00:13:05.000 There wasn't a belt.

00:13:06.000 I know.

00:13:06.000 Isn't that nuts?

00:13:07.000 Isn't that nuts?

00:13:08.000 That's so hard for people to understand how crazy it is.

00:13:12.000 Like being through the lineage of Thug Jitsu, man, it sucks to say that he can't say he was a champion, but I know he was.

00:13:18.000 He was.

00:13:19.000 He was the best man.

00:13:19.000 He was.

00:13:19.000 He was the best.

00:13:20.000 At one point in time, he was the best.

00:13:23.000 He lived out here before he moved to LA.

00:13:25.000 So before I moved to South Florida to train an American top team, I used to drive six hours here and stay with Eve.

00:13:31.000 He always had wrestlers down here.

00:13:32.000 This is like the beginning of my WEC days.

00:13:35.000 I would drive down here and train with Eve, man.

00:13:37.000 He was another guy who was ahead back in the day.

00:13:40.000 Yes.

00:13:40.000 Because he comes from NHB, like hook and shoot.

00:13:44.000 The crazy days.

00:13:45.000 Yes.

00:13:45.000 Yeah.

00:13:46.000 And he was doing it all.

00:13:46.000 Yeah.

00:13:47.000 Good jiu-jitsu, good kickboxing.

00:13:49.000 He fell in love with wrestling.

00:13:51.000 I was such a big fan of Eve, man.

00:13:52.000 He invented some moves too.

00:13:55.000 You remember that one thing that he would do where guys were on a single and he hit a dude with a flying knee, a jumping knee?

00:14:00.000 That was, dude, I'm an MMA historian, bro.

00:14:03.000 That was Elite XC, I believe, maybe.

00:14:05.000 Was it?

00:14:08.000 And you know, that was Edson Berto.

00:14:11.000 Was it?

00:14:12.000 I think Andre Berto's brother, the boxer.

00:14:14.000 Oh, wow.

00:14:16.000 Yeah.

00:14:17.000 Wow.

00:14:18.000 But that he had a single leg.

00:14:19.000 He was hopping and then jumped up and out cold.

00:14:22.000 Yeah, it was crazy.

00:14:23.000 It is Elite XC.

00:14:24.000 Look at you, bro.

00:14:25.000 I mean, pray that again.

00:14:26.000 This move is brilliant.

00:14:26.000 Look at this.

00:14:28.000 That's Edson Berto.

00:14:28.000 That's brilliant.

00:14:31.000 And I believe Andre and Edson's dad was a mixed martial artist.

00:14:35.000 Oh, wow.

00:14:37.000 That's such a slick move.

00:14:40.000 Yeah, he's so crafty, man.

00:14:41.000 Oh, yeah.

00:14:42.000 Well, that head kick that he landed on Josh Thompson in the middle of that wild, crazy scramble, jumping roundhouse kick to the head.

00:14:48.000 Dude, and they still play it every opener at the UFC.

00:14:50.000 Yeah.

00:14:51.000 They still play it as they should.

00:14:52.000 I mean, it was incredible.

00:14:53.000 Yeah.

00:14:53.000 Absolutely.

00:14:54.000 I gotta, you gotta give credit to Eve.

00:14:56.000 He's he was one of the real pioneers.

00:15:00.000 For sure.

00:15:00.000 And way before this was cool.

00:15:02.000 Way before.

00:15:02.000 Yeah.

00:15:03.000 Yeah.

00:15:03.000 But to be stuck at like 155, like that was his weight class.

00:15:08.000 And then there's no title.

00:15:09.000 Yeah.

00:15:10.000 They were the two best guys in the world at that time, him and Josh Thompson.

00:15:13.000 Yeah.

00:15:14.000 Josh Thompson's another one.

00:15:15.000 Doesn't get the credit he deserves.

00:15:17.000 That's it.

00:15:18.000 Boom.

00:15:18.000 Like, what a slick move, man.

00:15:20.000 But that was Eve.

00:15:21.000 Very creative, you know?

00:15:23.000 Yeah.

00:15:24.000 Man, Josh Thompson, like, peaked Josh Thompson for me.

00:15:28.000 What was it, Strike Force when him and Gilbert Melendez, maybe were going back and forth?

00:15:32.000 Didn't have to be a good idea.

00:15:33.000 Oh my goodness.

00:15:33.000 Yeah.

00:15:34.000 They might have had a trilogy.

00:15:35.000 It might have been two or three fights, but every fight was amazing.

00:15:37.000 Gilbert Melendez, the other guy doesn't get the credit he deserves.

00:15:40.000 Dude, legend.

00:15:41.000 Legend, man.

00:15:42.000 All those guys, they were the groundbreakers.

00:15:42.000 Legend.

00:15:45.000 You know, a lot of these young kids coming up, you bring up Gilbert Melendez.

00:15:48.000 They're like, who?

00:15:49.000 Like, bro, you need to know your history.

00:15:51.000 You need to know how this thing got started.

00:15:53.000 Going back.

00:15:54.000 Even more newer stuff.

00:15:55.000 Go watch him and Diego Sanchez.

00:15:57.000 Right?

00:15:57.000 Slug it out.

00:15:58.000 Diego Sanchez is another guy that I say is a tweener, right?

00:16:02.000 Welterweight.

00:16:03.000 Yeah.

00:16:03.000 I mean, he really wasn't really a welterweight.

00:16:07.000 And he, you know, and lightweight.

00:16:09.000 I mean, he tried to get down to 45 for a while, but that was just brutal.

00:16:13.000 He was killing himself, getting down to 45.

00:16:15.000 I remember seeing him making weight for 45.

00:16:17.000 I'm like, oh, this ain't good.

00:16:18.000 This ain't going to last long.

00:16:19.000 No.

00:16:20.000 But if there was a 165-pound weight class, Diego Sanchez might have been the champion of the world.

00:16:26.000 Right.

00:16:26.000 Honestly, man, like when I was competing, if they had a 65, I might have entertained it.

00:16:30.000 70s, just too big of a gap because I trained with 70s in the UFC and I know they're 200-something pounds.

00:16:35.000 And my heaviest, I was like 182, 183, maybe.

00:16:39.000 They're just too big, man.

00:16:40.000 Well, you got guys like Rumble Johnson when Rumble was alive.

00:16:45.000 Rumble got up to 230 pounds in between.

00:16:47.000 No, he was huge, man.

00:16:49.000 Huge.

00:16:50.000 Huge.

00:16:50.000 I can't believe he made 170.

00:16:52.000 He was living in South Florida, so I see him every now and then.

00:16:54.000 He was huge.

00:16:55.000 This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats.

00:16:57.000 March is here, and Uber Eats is delivering deals all month long.

00:17:01.000 Each game day, score big savings on all the delicious food you need to turn your couch into center court and fuel your fandom.

00:17:10.000 Whether you're ordering in or hosting the whole crew, Uber Eats is serving up deals on wings, burgers, pizza from your favorite restaurant, plus game day snacks from top stores.

00:17:22.000 Bracket busted, still holding strong, Cinderella story or top seed, however the madness unfolds.

00:17:28.000 These deals keep it going all month long.

00:17:30.000 Visit the game day hub on Uber Eats for all the latest deals and start saving today.

00:17:37.000 He was the ultimate weight cutter.

00:17:39.000 Like he cut more weight than anybody.

00:17:41.000 When he was fighting at 170, it was bananas.

00:17:44.000 Like, how are you doing this?

00:17:45.000 I remember running into him at a hotel.

00:17:47.000 I was like, bro, how big are you?

00:17:49.000 And he was laughing.

00:17:50.000 He's like, I'm 230 right now.

00:17:51.000 And muscle.

00:17:52.000 Jack.

00:17:52.000 Yeah, muscle.

00:17:53.000 Like a heavyweight.

00:17:53.000 And he went up to heavyweight.

00:17:54.000 He beat Orlofsky.

00:17:56.000 Which is crazy.

00:17:57.000 He was a legit heavyweight.

00:17:58.000 Yeah.

00:17:59.000 Andre's still fighting.

00:18:00.000 I know.

00:18:01.000 And winning.

00:18:02.000 The bare knuckle champion.

00:18:03.000 Winning.

00:18:03.000 He's a bare knuckle champion.

00:18:05.000 Like, how durable is that motherfucker?

00:18:07.000 For the years and the miles that that guy has, I have to say, like taking shots, receiving damage.

00:18:12.000 I don't know if he takes it like he, obviously, he doesn't take it like he used to.

00:18:16.000 But his mobility and his movement for all the wars he's had and the years he's been fighting.

00:18:20.000 When I watch him in the gym, dude, he's light on his feet, flexible.

00:18:22.000 Yeah.

00:18:23.000 He moves so well.

00:18:25.000 And enthusiasm.

00:18:26.000 Still has enthusiasm for the game.

00:18:28.000 Yeah.

00:18:28.000 Which is crazy.

00:18:30.000 He loves it.

00:18:30.000 He clearly loves it.

00:18:32.000 I mean, he was what?

00:18:32.000 UFC heavyweight champion in 2005?

00:18:35.000 Yeah.

00:18:36.000 Was it like 2005?

00:18:38.000 2005 or 2006.

00:18:39.000 I think he beat Tim Silvia maybe.

00:18:42.000 When he was the champ, first of all, that motherfucker had a piston for a right hand.

00:18:46.000 I remember when he KO'd Paul Buntello?

00:18:48.000 Oh my God.

00:18:49.000 That's a Texas guy.

00:18:51.000 Paul Buntello, another dude.

00:18:53.000 I believe he's from Galveston area or Corpus Christi or something.

00:18:58.000 He's from Texas.

00:19:00.000 Well, if you think Arlaski from 2005 and he was a top 10 heavyweight as recently as like 2023.

00:19:08.000 Well, when he came back to the UFC after that long gap, he went on a streak.

00:19:13.000 He had a bunch of great fights.

00:19:14.000 I think he knocked out Travis Brown.

00:19:15.000 Beat Travis Brown, which is crazy.

00:19:17.000 Did he fight Bigfoot?

00:19:18.000 Did him in Bigfoot?

00:19:19.000 He was 161 is when he went in.

00:19:21.000 2005, February 5th, 2005.

00:19:24.000 That is bananas, man.

00:19:26.000 That really is bananas.

00:19:28.000 Man, back in the day, Tim Silvia used to train at ATT when I first got there.

00:19:32.000 He was the most uncoordinated, unathletic guy.

00:19:35.000 I couldn't believe he was a UFC champion, man.

00:19:37.000 I know.

00:19:37.000 He was like goofy.

00:19:38.000 Pigeon-toed.

00:19:39.000 But down to fight.

00:19:40.000 Oh, down to fight.

00:19:41.000 Down to fight.

00:19:42.000 Pigeon-toed.

00:19:42.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:19:43.000 His knees were weird.

00:19:44.000 Yeah.

00:19:44.000 Yeah, they went in.

00:19:47.000 I tried to talk to a trainer about that.

00:19:49.000 He goes, that's learned.

00:19:50.000 Like, you can correct that.

00:19:51.000 I was like, what the knee?

00:19:53.000 The knee?

00:19:53.000 Yeah.

00:19:54.000 The knees bowed in like that.

00:19:56.000 Was he said that's a learned thing?

00:19:58.000 You could correct that.

00:20:00.000 I was like, really?

00:20:01.000 How do you what?

00:20:03.000 I never heard of that.

00:20:04.000 Yeah.

00:20:05.000 They didn't understand how it seems like something they would do maybe when you're born surgery, like reposition the bones or something, no?

00:20:10.000 Well, I don't know if it is, I don't know.

00:20:13.000 I mean, I'd have to, I don't want to speak out of turn.

00:20:15.000 Like, I'd have to bring in that guy and have him explain to me how you could correct that.

00:20:20.000 But he's like, that's something that could be corrected.

00:20:22.000 That's like learned behavior.

00:20:24.000 It's just from being so big.

00:20:25.000 But, dude, watching him with his toes pointed out doing the ladder drills and stuff, you know, the ladders on the mat in and out.

00:20:31.000 Like, it was.

00:20:31.000 Well, big guys have their toes pointed out like that.

00:20:35.000 Like, Jellyroll went from 500 pounds and he's down to the, he's in the low 200s now, which is crazy.

00:20:42.000 Yeah.

00:20:42.000 I saw pictures of him.

00:20:43.000 It looks completely different.

00:20:44.000 Bro, he's lost like 300 pounds.

00:20:46.000 And he did it the right way.

00:20:48.000 No Ozempic, just like diet, exercise, runs all the time.

00:20:52.000 But he has a problem when he walks, his toes are pointed out and he's trying to correct it.

00:20:57.000 He's trying to be aware of it.

00:20:59.000 When he runs, he runs the right way, like feet pointed forward.

00:21:03.000 You see it too on the bigger guys' shoes.

00:21:06.000 The corners of the shoes are always flat, like flat times on the outside.

00:21:09.000 They just walk that way, man.

00:21:09.000 Yeah.

00:21:10.000 Well, you got to think.

00:21:11.000 You have so much weight.

00:21:13.000 You kind of kind of stretch out to kind of balance yourself.

00:21:17.000 Yeah.

00:21:17.000 But I always point to Tim Silvia when he knocked out Rico.

00:21:21.000 Rico Rodriguez.

00:21:24.000 That Tim Silvia was a beast, dude.

00:21:27.000 That was back when all the Mexican supplements were allowed.

00:21:30.000 There was a lot of dudes who are very juicy.

00:21:34.000 Oh, yeah.

00:21:34.000 And Tim had giant traps and huge fucking shoulders.

00:21:38.000 And I remember he struggled to get down to 265 for that fight.

00:21:43.000 Yeah, back in the day with the juice was just free-flowing, man.

00:21:46.000 I just worked the UFC desk with Bisming in Vegas when Max and Charles fought.

00:21:51.000 And we started talking about the same thing we're talking about now.

00:21:53.000 And he was like, oh, I fought Vito.

00:21:55.000 I fought them all in the height of TRT.

00:21:57.000 Right.

00:21:57.000 You know, he's fought legal juice, which was bananas.

00:22:01.000 I mean, Alistair.

00:22:03.000 Oh, yeah.

00:22:03.000 That was the juiciest fight of all time.

00:22:05.000 Alistair versus Brock was the juiciest fight of all time.

00:22:11.000 I recently watched the Mark Hunt documentary, and he's trying to push back and do a lawsuit against the UFC for all the juicing and stuff.

00:22:21.000 I mean, it's such a.

00:22:22.000 Yeah, that's a tough, that's a tough road because how much can the UFC do?

00:22:30.000 And it's on the Athletic Commission as well, right?

00:22:32.000 Wouldn't the lawsuit be against the state, not the UFC?

00:22:35.000 I think his position is that the UFC knew that Brock was juicing.

00:22:42.000 I don't know.

00:22:42.000 This is before random drug tests, I believe.

00:22:45.000 Yes, it was before.

00:22:46.000 So that would, I feel like that would fall on the state athletic commission.

00:22:49.000 Maybe it wasn't before because he did get popped.

00:22:53.000 But it wasn't random.

00:22:54.000 They weren't going to show up in camp.

00:22:57.000 No, no, that back in the day you would get tested on fight night.

00:23:00.000 You know, they would knock at your door.

00:23:00.000 Right.

00:23:01.000 Well, it was super clear that Brock was doing something.

00:23:06.000 It was super clear.

00:23:07.000 Like he was like in his late 30s.

00:23:10.000 He's built like a fucking like the side of a barn.

00:23:13.000 I mean, there's a bunch of guys back then.

00:23:14.000 Yeah.

00:23:15.000 A bunch of guys.

00:23:16.000 Yeah.

00:23:16.000 But it wasn't frowned.

00:23:17.000 It was okay.

00:23:18.000 Everybody was doing it.

00:23:19.000 But it was, and it wasn't, right?

00:23:21.000 Because it was illegal, but it was like when you have fight day drug tests, that's an intelligence test.

00:23:29.000 That's all that is.

00:23:31.000 That's whether or not you have good people in your corner.

00:23:31.000 Right.

00:23:34.000 And whether or not you have a chemist.

00:23:34.000 Right.

00:23:36.000 It's going to take this amount of weeks to get out of there.

00:23:38.000 Or this many days to get out of your system.

00:23:40.000 Well, there are certain camps that would employ scientists.

00:23:43.000 And these scientists.

00:23:44.000 The crooks are always going to be ahead, you know?

00:23:46.000 They're always going to be coming up with something new, trying to stay ahead of the curve and get away with stuff.

00:23:50.000 And I still think they're probably doing it, man.

00:23:52.000 There's probably something that we don't know right now, and it's going to come out in the future.

00:23:52.000 Yeah.

00:23:57.000 That's why they hold on to the drug tests for a prolonged period of time.

00:24:01.000 Yeah.

00:24:01.000 They ask you your consent.

00:24:03.000 You have to do an extra signature if you let them test it or use it for.

00:24:06.000 What happens if you say no?

00:24:08.000 I don't know.

00:24:08.000 I never said no.

00:24:10.000 Well, it's good for you because you're clean.

00:24:10.000 I always give it to them.

00:24:12.000 Yeah, I competed my whole career clean, man.

00:24:14.000 Nothing.

00:24:15.000 Nothing.

00:24:15.000 I was even scared of certain creatine.

00:24:17.000 Like, I got the trusted by sport on everything because I was so scared to be one of those guys.

00:24:21.000 Because every time I see it, tainted supplement, yeah, sure, buddy.

00:24:24.000 But, you know, sure, tainted supplement, but it could be.

00:24:28.000 You know, I don't want to be one of those guys.

00:24:29.000 Well, for sure, there are tainted supplements.

00:24:31.000 That's a real thing.

00:24:32.000 And, you know, I know that for a fact because as one of the owners of Onit, when we were doing, when we were doing third-party testing of some of our supplements, we would find stuff in there that's not supposed to be in there.

00:24:46.000 And so we'd have to contact the distributor, the manufacturer, and the people that mixed our stuff.

00:24:51.000 So the way Onit would work is like Alpha Brain has a bunch of different ingredients that enhance your, you know, your mental focus and clarity.

00:25:02.000 And we would give them the very specific numbers of what's supposed to be in each batch.

00:25:07.000 And then we would third-party test.

00:25:09.000 We'd find a bunch of shit in there that's not supposed to be in there.

00:25:11.000 And it's because, you know, if you're getting it done overseas, they have these vats where they mix all the stuff in and they don't even clean the vats, right?

00:25:19.000 They dump it out and then they dump the new stuff in there without cleaning it.

00:25:22.000 There's residue in there and then also the level of drug testing, how high these things can sense anything.

00:25:28.000 Even if there's a tiny bit, they'll find it.

00:25:28.000 Right.

00:25:30.000 Right with John Jones, right?

00:25:31.000 It was picograms.

00:25:32.000 We got introduced to the term picogram.

00:25:34.000 Picos.

00:25:35.000 Like a grain of salt in a swimming pool they can find.

00:25:37.000 Yeah.

00:25:38.000 So the testing is legit.

00:25:39.000 And I'm glad, you know, we're fighting.

00:25:41.000 We're kneeing each other in the face.

00:25:43.000 If we were running track or something, I would.

00:25:44.000 Exactly.

00:25:45.000 But we're fighting.

00:25:46.000 You can get seriously injured, man.

00:25:47.000 Exactly.

00:25:48.000 I've always been against doping.

00:25:49.000 But I'm retired now, Joe.

00:25:51.000 I'm retired now.

00:25:52.000 Now you can get the truth.

00:25:54.000 Yeah, I love when guys get, well, cowboy got real jacked too afterwards.

00:25:57.000 But then he talked about coming back and then he got off of everything.

00:26:00.000 That's the thing, though.

00:26:01.000 Like, always back in the day, all the TRT guys, like, if you change your body's natural production of testosterone with exogenous testosterone, you have to be on it for the rest of your life.

00:26:11.000 Well, you don't have to because there's things called HCG and HCG and clomaphene can restart your body's production of testosterone.

00:26:19.000 Yeah.

00:26:20.000 Because I know your testicles will stop producing once you introduce foreign testosterone, right?

00:26:25.000 Well, for a period of time, especially when you're a young man, you can restart it.

00:26:31.000 But, you know, my production, I've been on TRT since I was like late 30s.

00:26:36.000 Like, it's not coming back.

00:26:38.000 Yeah.

00:26:38.000 I'm shooting blanks on papow.

00:26:41.000 You're good.

00:26:42.000 But two of my daughters were born while I was on TRT.

00:26:45.000 So it does work.

00:26:47.000 I just had a limited amount.

00:26:48.000 I had soldiers, just one fucking special ops guy.

00:26:51.000 The only one was marching.

00:26:54.000 But he got through.

00:26:55.000 Black ops.

00:26:56.000 Yeah.

00:26:56.000 So if you think about like all of the time where people were allowed to dope, it is a giant percentage of the history of MMA.

00:27:05.000 Like pride.

00:27:06.000 The further you go back, for sure.

00:27:08.000 For sure.

00:27:09.000 Pride, it was juicy as juice.

00:27:10.000 Yeah.

00:27:11.000 Like, like Ensign, anyway, when he was on the podcast, told me that in the contract, it said in all capital letters, we do not test for steroids.

00:27:20.000 We aren't looking.

00:27:20.000 And I've heard other people say that as well.

00:27:22.000 We aren't looking.

00:27:23.000 Thumbs up, green light, let's go.

00:27:25.000 Shoot up the juice.

00:27:26.000 Come fight.

00:27:26.000 We'll pay you cash.

00:27:27.000 Get out of here.

00:27:28.000 They wanted you to juice.

00:27:29.000 They wanted you to fight better, which is like it becomes a spectacle, but man, people can get seriously injured.

00:27:35.000 You can, especially, but then also the thing is, like, does it make you more durable?

00:27:40.000 I think it does.

00:27:41.000 Prevent you.

00:27:41.000 I think it does, man, because just one that right off the top of my head, when Bigfoot Silva was TRT or whatever he was on, he was so durable.

00:27:50.000 So durable.

00:27:51.000 Him and Mark Hunt had those crazy fights, but when he got off, he started getting knocked out.

00:27:54.000 Right.

00:27:55.000 You know?

00:27:56.000 But there's also the switch.

00:27:58.000 There's something that happens when you've had a certain amount of concussions where that's.

00:28:02.000 Another guy that comes to mind.

00:28:03.000 Remember Eric Silva?

00:28:04.000 Welterweight?

00:28:04.000 Yeah.

00:28:05.000 He was huge.

00:28:06.000 Dude, whenever they started doing the USATA stuff, he was getting knocked out and just wasn't himself.

00:28:10.000 He didn't look the same.

00:28:11.000 He melted.

00:28:12.000 I wonder what the medical reason for that is, but I think it has something to do with confidence and self-belief with the testosterone.

00:28:19.000 They just, I think that's a big part of it.

00:28:22.000 It's definitely a part of it, but also there's a part of it, your vitality.

00:28:25.000 You're just more durable.

00:28:27.000 I mean, when you're jacked up on testosterone, it's just more fucking durable.

00:28:31.000 Everything about you is more durable.

00:28:32.000 Aleister's a great example of that.

00:28:34.000 Like animal mode, man.

00:28:35.000 Yeah, man.

00:28:36.000 Dude, I think Aleister Overem, when he was Uberim, I think that is the best argument for TRT ever.

00:28:43.000 Looked like a superhero.

00:28:44.000 Bro, when he was in K1 and he was shelling up.

00:28:48.000 How are you getting through that?

00:28:49.000 How are you getting through that shell?

00:28:50.000 Remember how small he was, though, back in K1?

00:28:52.000 He was like a 205 or something like that.

00:28:53.000 Well, not even pride.

00:28:54.000 Pride when he was fighting at Light Heavyweight.

00:28:54.000 Pride.

00:28:56.000 When Chuck knocked him out.

00:28:57.000 Liddell knocked him out when he was a legit light heavyweight and he was skinny.

00:29:01.000 Yeah.

00:29:02.000 Young and skinny.

00:29:03.000 He just decided time to get big.

00:29:06.000 Look at him back then when he fought Shogun.

00:29:08.000 Still pretty jacked, though.

00:29:09.000 Oh, yeah, man.

00:29:11.000 He was shredded.

00:29:12.000 He was shredded, but he was a shredded light heavyweight.

00:29:15.000 You know, I think he's a vegan now.

00:29:18.000 Look at that.

00:29:19.000 Come on, son.

00:29:20.000 Come on, that's a rib eyes.

00:29:22.000 That ain't vegan right now.

00:29:23.000 Go back to that other one.

00:29:24.000 That's what I'm talking about.

00:29:25.000 I mean, that's what a UFC heavyweight champion is supposed to look like.

00:29:28.000 Hell yeah.

00:29:28.000 Come on, son.

00:29:29.000 I mean, put that on the White House car.

00:29:32.000 Not just that, but highly skilled.

00:29:35.000 He wasn't just jacked.

00:29:35.000 For sure.

00:29:37.000 He was highly.

00:29:38.000 I mean, there's a K-1 Grand Prix champion.

00:29:42.000 I mean, that dude was the cream of the crop at kickboxing.

00:29:46.000 He was the cream of the crop in MMA.

00:29:48.000 And he even won the Abu Dhabi European Trials as a pure grappler.

00:29:53.000 Yeah, people don't know about that about Alistair.

00:29:55.000 His grappling is high level.

00:29:56.000 He had one of the best guillotines in the game.

00:29:58.000 Like, Aleister in his prime, when he went over and he fought Brett Cooper over in, was it Burt Cooper?

00:30:06.000 No, who did he fucking fight in Strike Force?

00:30:11.000 Brett Rogers.

00:30:12.000 That's right.

00:30:12.000 Sorry.

00:30:13.000 I'm thinking of the heavyweight boxer, Burt Cooper.

00:30:16.000 Burt Cooper.

00:30:17.000 Who fought, he had some crazy wars with Evander, Evander Holyfield.

00:30:24.000 I think Vander's down in South Florida too now.

00:30:27.000 I don't remember Cooper.

00:30:29.000 He was a really, he was a tank.

00:30:31.000 He was a tank.

00:30:32.000 He was a super jack guy.

00:30:33.000 But Brett Rogers, when he fought Alistair, Aleister immediately hit him with a low kick, and you could tell he was like, what is this?

00:30:41.000 Like, it was a different kind of low kick because you're dealing with the tree trunks of Aleister with perfect technique.

00:30:41.000 Yeah.

00:30:47.000 And that guy was as good a kickboxer as has ever entered into MMA.

00:30:53.000 And when he was saucy, he was a problem.

00:30:57.000 He was a real fucking problem.

00:31:00.000 Speaking of kickboxers from that era coming to MMA, dude, didn't Gokansaki come over?

00:31:04.000 Oh, yeah.

00:31:05.000 I thought he was going to do so much better, but he was older.

00:31:08.000 He was older, and he was at a time where it's like, you know, he had had so many fights in K1.

00:31:17.000 You know, he had so many wars.

00:31:19.000 And he fought Khalil.

00:31:21.000 You know, Khalil's fast as fuck.

00:31:23.000 And, I mean, good kickboxing.

00:31:24.000 Real good kickboxer.

00:31:26.000 Khalil cracked him in the first round and knocked him out.

00:31:26.000 Tie style.

00:31:29.000 Yeah.

00:31:30.000 Which was a big fight for Khalil because, you know, Gokan was the Turkish Tyson, was coming over here.

00:31:30.000 Yeah.

00:31:36.000 You know, he was one of those guys like Mirko Krokop was like an elite kickboxer who's entering into MMA, and everybody always gets excited about that.

00:31:43.000 Obviously, Pereira is the best example of that.

00:31:45.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:31:46.000 But he was a guy I knew.

00:31:48.000 I told everybody, I was like, that guy's going to be a nightmare for everybody because there's something about him, man.

00:31:53.000 I don't know what the hell is going on with his bone structure, his DNA, and his intelligence.

00:31:59.000 Like, he figures shit out that other people didn't.

00:32:02.000 Like, the way he threw that low kick, like the way he throws that calf kick with zero towel, no turning of the hips.

00:32:09.000 Like, he fucks up guys' calves better than anybody on the planet.

00:32:12.000 We had like a huge rush of the calf kick.

00:32:14.000 I saw it for like a year and a half, two years.

00:32:15.000 Everybody was doing it.

00:32:16.000 Now it's kind of fading away.

00:32:18.000 I've noticed that.

00:32:19.000 It is, but not with him.

00:32:21.000 It's not with elite guys, guys that are really good at it.

00:32:24.000 It does so much damage, man, so quickly.

00:32:26.000 And it's so much, it's less commitment.

00:32:26.000 It's crazy.

00:32:28.000 So you're not giving, you don't have to turn your hips over as much.

00:32:30.000 So wrestlers aren't grabbing singles as easy.

00:32:32.000 I remember your fight with Jim Miller.

00:32:34.000 It's just like, oh, dude, tore me up.

00:32:35.000 Yeah, that was that was one of the first examples of calf kicks being really fucking dangerous.

00:32:40.000 And I've never felt it before.

00:32:41.000 And I'm a South Paul, so they land good calf kicks.

00:32:44.000 You'd have to fight another South Paul, right?

00:32:45.000 And that doesn't happen too often, especially with one who's throwing those.

00:32:49.000 So I didn't know what kind of black magic he was doing, bro.

00:32:51.000 I was like, I got a flat tire.

00:32:54.000 What is going on?

00:32:55.000 I know.

00:32:55.000 What is this?

00:32:56.000 You know, isn't it crazy that it took that long for people to figure that out?

00:33:00.000 Ben Henderson was a guy doing it early, but it wasn't that effective for some reason.

00:33:05.000 He was doing it, but it wasn't having the devastating damage.

00:33:05.000 Yeah.

00:33:08.000 I'm trying to think of who's the first guy to really Edson Barbosa.

00:33:11.000 Would do it every now and then.

00:33:13.000 Trying to think of somebody who really brought it over.

00:33:15.000 Bro, it's made its way into kickboxing now.

00:33:18.000 It's because they were saying, like, the Muay Thai guys are not susceptible to calf kicks.

00:33:22.000 And everybody was saying that.

00:33:23.000 I was like, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

00:33:25.000 They are light on their front foot, so that front foot is they are, but there's times where they have to plant, like when they're throwing a right kick.

00:33:32.000 There's a guy named Yuki Yoza, Yuki Yoza, who fights for one.

00:33:35.000 He's a Kyokushin guy, and he is fucking everybody up with calf kicks.

00:33:40.000 Yeah, he fights like high guard, tight inside, and again, no pivot of the hips.

00:33:48.000 He's essentially throwing his calf kick almost like he's kicking a soccer ball straight up the middle.

00:33:53.000 That's the way I like to do it as well.

00:33:54.000 Just clip the top of the calf.

00:33:56.000 There's no commitment.

00:33:57.000 You don't have to pivot your hips or plant to turn.

00:33:59.000 You can just snap it out like a jab.

00:34:00.000 Yeah, well, a great example of the changing of technique was you in that Connor fight.

00:34:08.000 Yeah, calf over and over and over.

00:34:10.000 And it was also South Paul versus House.

00:34:11.000 South Paul.

00:34:12.000 Same thing.

00:34:13.000 You just destroyed that calf.

00:34:15.000 And you could tell he didn't know what to do because, as good as he was and as many fights as he had, two division world champion, he hadn't been calf kicked.

00:34:24.000 Which is a crazy transition when you see like the history of the sport.

00:34:24.000 Right.

00:34:28.000 That is one of the clear differenti, the like the differentiation.

00:34:33.000 That's another word that's fake.

00:34:34.000 That's the clear line in the sand where the techniques changed.

00:34:40.000 Yeah.

00:34:40.000 And it's one of those things like before it happened to me.

00:34:43.000 I saw it and I was like, ah, it might be uncomfortable.

00:34:45.000 And but until it happens, then you have a different respect for it.

00:34:48.000 So Connor probably learned a lot that fight, man.

00:34:49.000 Like, this is for real.

00:34:50.000 Calf kicks are for real.

00:34:52.000 What's fucked that it's just one shot?

00:34:54.000 That's what's crazy about it.

00:34:55.000 Because a thigh kick, like you can get a hard thigh kick and your leg goes dead for a couple seconds, but it comes back.

00:35:02.000 Yeah, calves don't really come back that quick.

00:35:05.000 They explained it to me at the hospital after the Jim Miller thing.

00:35:07.000 Apparently, your calf doesn't have the chambers for the fluid to drain.

00:35:10.000 So that's why it gets compartment.

00:35:12.000 Oh, compartment?

00:35:13.000 That's why it's so painful because you can't like go out through the swelling can't go out through your whole leg.

00:35:18.000 So it sits in one pocket and fills up and it's just uncomfortable.

00:35:20.000 It can stop nerves.

00:35:22.000 Do you ever see what happened to Austin Hubbard?

00:35:24.000 Dude, that's what they wanted to do after the Jim Miller fight.

00:35:26.000 They wanted to cut me at the way.

00:35:29.000 No way.

00:35:31.000 Fillet you to release the pressure.

00:35:33.000 Another guy, Uriah Faber, when he fought Jose Aldo, his leg blew up like a balloon.

00:35:38.000 Yeah.

00:35:39.000 Apparently, if it gets that bad compartment syndrome and the swelling's bad enough for long enough, you can lose function of your ankle and foot.

00:35:46.000 Yeah.

00:35:46.000 Which is crazy, right?

00:35:48.000 Right, right.

00:35:48.000 Well, Uriah was one of the first guys to implement going into what can't I think of it?

00:35:57.000 The fucking chamber, oxygen chamber.

00:35:59.000 Hyperbaric.

00:36:00.000 Hyperbaric.

00:36:01.000 What's wrong with me today?

00:36:02.000 I'm making up fake words.

00:36:04.000 Can't come up with things that I know.

00:36:06.000 But he was using the hyperbaric exclusively to recover from that and documenting it.

00:36:12.000 And I was like, bro, that's interesting.

00:36:14.000 A lot of good brain benefits for hyperbaric.

00:36:16.000 I don't have one.

00:36:17.000 I've done it before, but it's never been like a routine thing.

00:36:19.000 Well, you have to have access to it.

00:36:21.000 And also the tints.

00:36:22.000 You need a lot.

00:36:23.000 The tints, the zip-up tints at home.

00:36:24.000 Not as strong.

00:36:25.000 Yeah.

00:36:26.000 You need a solid.

00:36:27.000 You know, you need like one of those propane tank ones, those big, thick, walled ones.

00:36:31.000 The glass, like it's really good high pressure.

00:36:33.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:36:34.000 And then, you know, you got to be careful in those things.

00:36:36.000 You can't, no sparks.

00:36:38.000 Yeah, dude.

00:36:39.000 I saw a story that a kid was in one, and you saw that?

00:36:41.000 That was a couple years ago.

00:36:42.000 Horrible.

00:36:42.000 Yeah.

00:36:43.000 Horrible story.

00:36:44.000 Yeah.

00:36:45.000 But hyperbaric is awesome for recovery.

00:36:48.000 It's also, it lengthens, there's a protocol that developed, one of the universities in Israel developed it, where you do 60 sessions over 90 days, and it lengthens your telomeres that's commensurate with, I think it's like a 20-year difference in your biological age.

00:37:06.000 It's nuts.

00:37:06.000 Wow.

00:37:07.000 It's super effective.

00:37:09.000 Like when you get a lot of oxygen into your system like that, it just helps everything recover.

00:37:14.000 For sure.

00:37:14.000 Like if you have an aura ring or a whoop strap and you go into one of those things, it shows you.

00:37:19.000 It's like, oh, you have an amazing recovery day.

00:37:22.000 Yeah, man, the metrics we can track now with all the wearable devices is pretty awesome, dude.

00:37:26.000 Well, it gets you to understand.

00:37:29.000 I think you can get a little addicted to those things.

00:37:31.000 For sure.

00:37:32.000 So when I was competing, I stopped using them because every day wasn't ready.

00:37:36.000 Need to rest.

00:37:36.000 Red, red, red every day.

00:37:38.000 So when I retired, I got back to it.

00:37:39.000 Now I'm using them.

00:37:40.000 But like when you're training for a fight, you can't take two days off.

00:37:45.000 And the fight's coming up.

00:37:45.000 I need to train.

00:37:46.000 If I'm in the red zone, I still need to train.

00:37:49.000 I know.

00:37:49.000 Isn't that interesting?

00:37:50.000 Like, there's a wearable device would tell you you're not supposed to train, but yet you know in order to reach MMA peak physical condition, you have to push when you're not ready so that your body's forced to recover quicker.

00:38:03.000 I know this guy's training.

00:38:04.000 That's why I got rid of it.

00:38:05.000 During camp, I don't use it or didn't use it.

00:38:07.000 Well, it's weird because like, what if you listen to it?

00:38:11.000 Like, some people say, like, Terrence Crawford was talking about like there's times where he wanted to push where his coaches told him not to, and then he realized they were right.

00:38:22.000 Yeah, maturing through fighting, man, pulling back got easier as I got older.

00:38:27.000 When I was a younger fighter, I didn't want to take any time off.

00:38:29.000 I needed to be as many reps, as much time on the mats as possible.

00:38:33.000 But as I got to like mid-30s, 36, I was like, you know, this is, I got to take days off.

00:38:38.000 Complete days.

00:38:39.000 Complete days.

00:38:40.000 Not just an easy day or a technique day.

00:38:41.000 I just need to be out of the gym.

00:38:43.000 Just relax.

00:38:44.000 Yeah, reset my mind to where I want to be there.

00:38:46.000 Just hard for fighters because you operate on momentum of the conditioning and the training and the discipline.

00:38:51.000 It's like you're in there.

00:38:53.000 And then to have a day where you're not, you feel like you're slipping backwards.

00:38:56.000 Right.

00:38:56.000 And you show up to fight week with that momentum.

00:38:58.000 Like, I did everything I could.

00:39:00.000 I busted my ass every day.

00:39:01.000 Like, it just gives you so much energy and so much confidence going into fight week.

00:39:07.000 You've turned over every stone.

00:39:08.000 Yeah.

00:39:09.000 Well, the worst thing, though, is seeing a fighter fight flat because you know they overtrained.

00:39:14.000 And the one thing that I always point to is when Tim Kennedy fought Kelvin Gaslam and he had gone through two solid camps in a row.

00:39:22.000 So he went through one camp, peaked, got ready for the fight, and then the fight got canceled, and then went right back into camp to train for gastolum and didn't give himself the chance to recover.

00:39:33.000 And, you know, he's too tough.

00:39:34.000 Too tough, too disciplined, and his body broke down.

00:39:34.000 Yeah.

00:39:37.000 You're redlining that engine over and over and over.

00:39:39.000 I mean, we just saw it with Murab, I think.

00:39:41.000 You know, not that taking anything away from Jan, but you stay that busy.

00:39:45.000 Those kind of fights, those training camps, I mean, it's hard to do.

00:39:48.000 That's what makes things like John Jones could be so impressive to me, man.

00:39:52.000 To get on top and stay on top that long, you know.

00:39:55.000 Yeah.

00:39:56.000 I know.

00:39:57.000 It's nuts.

00:39:58.000 There's so few guys have been able to do that.

00:39:59.000 Especially in MMA.

00:40:00.000 Too many variables, too many ways to slip on a banana peel, get caught in something.

00:40:05.000 I know.

00:40:05.000 I kind of love that Khabib went out on top.

00:40:08.000 And never came back.

00:40:09.000 Respect.

00:40:09.000 That's awesome.

00:40:10.000 And they offered him a lot of fucking money to come back.

00:40:13.000 He's like, nope.

00:40:14.000 Yeah.

00:40:14.000 Nope.

00:40:15.000 Good for him, man.

00:40:16.000 Yeah, good for him.

00:40:17.000 Yeah.

00:40:18.000 That's the way to do it.

00:40:19.000 And then you go out, all your faculties, everything's fine, undefeated, go down a legend.

00:40:23.000 Right.

00:40:24.000 Yeah.

00:40:25.000 Like, I think Floyd should have done it, you know, like that.

00:40:28.000 Now he's fucking fighting Mike Tyson, dude.

00:40:30.000 Come on, man.

00:40:31.000 I know.

00:40:32.000 There was some rumors around that Floyd was going to have a rematch with Connor, which is crazy.

00:40:38.000 But I think Connor would probably do it, especially if there weren't any drug testing involved.

00:40:42.000 I wonder if he's going to come back for sure.

00:40:44.000 Yeah.

00:40:46.000 But, man, to heal from an injury like he had, you probably need a bunch of stuff to, I don't know the ins and outs of that, but you probably need some help to heal.

00:40:53.000 He definitely needed some help to heal.

00:40:55.000 The problem is once you get used to that help and you enjoy it.

00:40:59.000 Yeah, I'm getting used to the help.

00:41:01.000 I know.

00:41:02.000 That's what I thought about Cowboy when he got jacked and then he was like, he's going to, he slimmed back down again.

00:41:07.000 He said he was going to fight again.

00:41:08.000 But I think he might have abandoned that.

00:41:10.000 I got hooked up with Brigham and Ways Too Well.

00:41:12.000 They did all my blood when I retired and got me.

00:41:15.000 I turned down no testosterone for me.

00:41:17.000 So I'm not on any testosterone.

00:41:19.000 I just don't want to mess up my natural production because mine wasn't high, but it wasn't low.

00:41:22.000 I'm just scared to mess with it.

00:41:24.000 Yeah, you don't need it.

00:41:25.000 And it's peptides.

00:41:26.000 I'm 37.

00:41:27.000 It can do a lot for you.

00:41:28.000 Yeah, I'm on a bunch of peptides.

00:41:30.000 Yeah, peptides are the way to go.

00:41:31.000 And I feel great.

00:41:32.000 Honestly, I wish I could have been on this shit when I was fighting, man.

00:41:36.000 I know.

00:41:37.000 You know, especially like the growth hormone releasing stuff.

00:41:41.000 Like tessamoralin.

00:41:42.000 Exactly.

00:41:43.000 Like I could have pushed hard every day, man.

00:41:46.000 As I got older, it got harder, man.

00:41:48.000 I know, and all it does is help your body recover.

00:41:50.000 It's not like it gives you some sort of a performance-enhancing boost.

00:41:54.000 I know it definitely helps with like fat mobilization and stuff like that, but just being able to push hard every day is huge in fighting, man.

00:42:02.000 But just BPC 157, which offers no performance enhancing, but would help you heal soft tissue injuries.

00:42:09.000 Because you're getting injured.

00:42:11.000 You're just getting small injuries every day training.

00:42:14.000 Every time you get leg kicked, every time you get punched in the stomach, arm bars, shoulder bars.

00:42:18.000 Everything.

00:42:19.000 Your joints are always messed up.

00:42:20.000 Always.

00:42:21.000 Always.

00:42:22.000 And if you wanted fighters to perform better, something that would allow them to heal better is only good.

00:42:28.000 And it's not going to make you run faster.

00:42:30.000 It's not going to make you jump higher.

00:42:32.000 It's not going to make you an Uberim.

00:42:34.000 We're not talking about that.

00:42:35.000 And I'm not even sure if that's banned.

00:42:37.000 I haven't checked.

00:42:38.000 It is?

00:42:38.000 BPC 157 is banned.

00:42:39.000 Wow.

00:42:40.000 Yeah.

00:42:40.000 That's unfortunate.

00:42:41.000 Yeah, creatine, protein powders, that's the same stuff.

00:42:44.000 You just recover better.

00:42:45.000 Well, creatine.

00:42:46.000 I don't understand why.

00:42:47.000 Creatine's not banned, thank God.

00:42:49.000 But creatine in the 1990s was thought of the same way as steroids.

00:42:53.000 Right, yeah, yeah.

00:42:54.000 People thought like creatine's cheating.

00:42:54.000 I remember.

00:42:56.000 Oh, my God, you're taking creatine.

00:42:57.000 They literally put it in the same category as steroids.

00:42:59.000 Then they realized, oh, it's actually a part of food.

00:43:01.000 Great for your test.

00:43:02.000 Praisine, good for you.

00:43:03.000 Great for everything.

00:43:04.000 Yeah.

00:43:06.000 I just talked my wife into starting creatine.

00:43:08.000 Women need it more than men, I was reading.

00:43:10.000 Right?

00:43:10.000 You know, my wife's just starting.

00:43:12.000 I think the key is to make sure you're hydrated, too, and to make sure you're not taking too much of it and make sure you get your blood checked and so you're not putting a lot of pressure on your kidneys.

00:43:12.000 Yeah.

00:43:22.000 But like dehydration and kidneys, that like that is one of the big things that happens to a lot of fighters that cut a lot of weight.

00:43:28.000 They start getting kidney stones.

00:43:30.000 I mean, Jose Aldo dealt with that.

00:43:32.000 DC famously got pulled out of the Olympics.

00:43:35.000 Oh, yeah.

00:43:36.000 Because he was having kidney failure.

00:43:37.000 Yeah.

00:43:38.000 Yeah.

00:43:38.000 Your kidneys, man, they don't like you being drained out like that.

00:43:42.000 I've had a few weight cuts where I felt pain in my back.

00:43:45.000 And I think that's kidneys.

00:43:46.000 100%, man.

00:43:48.000 Kidney shots.

00:43:49.000 Didn't happen often, but I've definitely had it.

00:43:51.000 Tightness.

00:43:52.000 It feels kind of like cramping in a weird place you never had before in your back.

00:43:55.000 Isn't that spooky?

00:43:56.000 You're drying out your organs.

00:43:57.000 And then fighting for your life.

00:43:58.000 Crazy.

00:43:59.000 It was nice, though, when I started making it to the top of the cards, co-main event, main event, because then you have like 30-something hours to rehydrate.

00:43:59.000 24 hours.

00:44:05.000 If you're fighting early prelims in Vegas, two or three in the afternoon, you know, it's not too long.

00:44:12.000 Especially back in the day when weigh-ins were at 5 or 6 p.m.

00:44:15.000 There wasn't a morning and ceremonial.

00:44:18.000 The real weigh-ins were at 5, and you were going to fight at 2 the next day.

00:44:20.000 Yeah, those were nuts.

00:44:22.000 That was crazy.

00:44:24.000 Yeah, it was crazy when guys would like shuffle to the scale for the real weigh-in.

00:44:29.000 You'd see them all like a skeleton.

00:44:31.000 And you're facing off of your opponent trying to be tough, like both dying.

00:44:34.000 Well, I always remember Jose Aldo versus Connor.

00:44:37.000 Connor looked like he was one of the walking dead.

00:44:40.000 He looked like a zombie.

00:44:40.000 Yeah.

00:44:42.000 He was so skinny.

00:44:43.000 His face bones.

00:44:44.000 Yeah.

00:44:45.000 See if you can find that.

00:44:46.000 And he was also crazy.

00:44:47.000 Ah!

00:44:48.000 Yeah.

00:44:49.000 Like, like flexible.

00:44:50.000 He's always crazy.

00:44:51.000 He's always hyped up with no body fat, no water, just completely dehydrated.

00:44:58.000 Like, look at that.

00:44:59.000 Look at that.

00:45:00.000 The eyes.

00:45:00.000 Eyes sunken in.

00:45:02.000 That is nuts.

00:45:03.000 That guy weighed 145 and he probably weighed 170 or at least 165 when he got into the actual octagon that day.

00:45:12.000 If he does come back, I wonder what he's going to come back at.

00:45:14.000 Lightweight or Welter?

00:45:16.000 Well, the real key is if.

00:45:17.000 If.

00:45:18.000 I mean, he's had a lot of opportunities.

00:45:20.000 And I don't know.

00:45:21.000 I thought the Chandler fight was a layup for him.

00:45:24.000 That's the fight.

00:45:24.000 A great matchup for him.

00:45:26.000 Great fight technically.

00:45:27.000 It's a great fight stylistically.

00:45:29.000 It's a great fight age-wise.

00:45:30.000 Chandler's got to be, what, 39 now?

00:45:33.000 He's up there, 38 or 39.

00:45:34.000 Yeah.

00:45:35.000 I mean, and then that was the hype of the ultimate fighter.

00:45:38.000 True, but it's just a layup for Connor.

00:45:40.000 Chandler's hittable, covers distance, not that technically, you know, huge movements.

00:45:45.000 Right.

00:45:46.000 You jump in, you get carried out.

00:45:47.000 Connor's a sniper, man.

00:45:48.000 I just think that's a great matchup for him.

00:45:50.000 It's also a great matchup for Chandler because he's tired.

00:45:53.000 And he gets that, you know, because he sat out for two years waiting on Connor.

00:45:57.000 It's also like, remember him with Olivera?

00:45:59.000 Even in the fucking third round, that dude is carrying Olivera up and throwing him through the air and body slamming him while he's on his back.

00:46:06.000 Like the dudes have, he has incredible durance and incredible discipline.

00:46:10.000 He's always fit.

00:46:12.000 And that's been Connor's Achilles heel.

00:46:14.000 It's that Connor, he's so explosive and so fast that if you're sprinting in that first round, guaranteed you're not going to have that same kind of energy in the fifth round.

00:46:22.000 Yeah.

00:46:22.000 But some guys are just designed like that.

00:46:25.000 You know, you saw Tyron Woodley's a guy who has huge explosion, but they don't necessarily keep that for 25 minutes.

00:46:33.000 But on the opposite side of that, you got a guy like Nate Diaz who would keep that same pace from round one to five.

00:46:38.000 Round 30.

00:46:38.000 Yeah.

00:46:39.000 That dude could lombard out of a cannon, you know, and then slow down.

00:46:44.000 Just the way muscles and fibers are put, you know, connected.

00:46:47.000 I don't know what does that to a human.

00:46:49.000 Well, the only guys that figured out how to fight with all that bulk and just is like Yoel Romero.

00:46:55.000 He fought very smart.

00:46:57.000 He was just like, still fighting.

00:46:59.000 Still fighting.

00:47:00.000 Dude's still fighting.

00:47:01.000 50 years old.

00:47:02.000 Jacked.

00:47:03.000 More jacked than ever.

00:47:04.000 Yeah.

00:47:04.000 48 years old, 49 years old with abs, looking like a fucking super athlete.

00:47:09.000 I think he's doing bare knuckle, maybe.

00:47:11.000 Yeah, he did bare knuckle.

00:47:12.000 He did dirty boxing.

00:47:15.000 There's a fight where he had in dirty boxing where he's touching the dude up and then out of nowhere, he just leaps up into the air.

00:47:22.000 He does like a vertical.

00:47:24.000 He's like a five-foot vertical, lands on his feet and just starts putting it on a dude.

00:47:28.000 He's like, I'm tired of this.

00:47:29.000 Let me show you what I can really do.

00:47:31.000 I've had fun.

00:47:32.000 No play with the food.

00:47:33.000 I've had fun.

00:47:34.000 He's a crazy.

00:47:35.000 He's been on the mats a bunch of American top team as well.

00:47:37.000 And just a freak athlete, man.

00:47:39.000 Freak.

00:47:40.000 He's the freak of all freaks.

00:47:41.000 Just a freak athlete.

00:47:42.000 Yeah.

00:47:42.000 I mean, he came out of that Cuban.

00:47:44.000 They build him different over there.

00:47:45.000 Yeah, they build him with science.

00:47:47.000 Yeah.

00:47:48.000 But he also figured out how to pace himself.

00:47:51.000 You know, he figured out how to like explode out of nowhere, but not explode the entire time.

00:47:56.000 Like he had this casual, almost he would lull you into a false sense of security and then just pounce on you.

00:48:02.000 Right.

00:48:03.000 Like that knee he hit Wideman with.

00:48:05.000 Dude, that was a perfect example.

00:48:08.000 Perfect example because you get used to this kind of pace.

00:48:12.000 You're getting into the rhythm and then you just break it up.

00:48:15.000 But also, he didn't fight like, obviously, he's a wrestler.

00:48:18.000 He didn't wrestle too, too hard and really gas himself out.

00:48:20.000 He fought smart to do what he's good at.

00:48:22.000 Explode.

00:48:23.000 He barely used his wrestling in MMA, which is so crazy.

00:48:27.000 It's really crazy if you think about how good of a wrestler he was.

00:48:30.000 Because he was one of the best wrestlers to ever compete in MMA.

00:48:33.000 I mean, that dude was elite as a wrestler.

00:48:36.000 And in MMA, he's just starching people.

00:48:38.000 Yeah.

00:48:38.000 Luke Rockhold starched Luke.

00:48:41.000 Like, that was crazy.

00:48:43.000 Luke's another guy still fighting.

00:48:45.000 I think.

00:48:47.000 I think he might be done now.

00:48:49.000 You know, when he got knocked out by Darren Till in the boxing, I think that might be it.

00:48:53.000 I think that might be it.

00:48:55.000 And Darren Till's got a resurgence, man.

00:48:57.000 As a boxer, he looks fucking fantastic.

00:49:00.000 I saw the highlights of that, but I haven't seen a whole lot.

00:49:02.000 Bro, he looks real good.

00:49:04.000 He looks real because he's always been a good striker.

00:49:06.000 Very good striker.

00:49:07.000 And his Achilles heel has been his knees.

00:49:10.000 You know, he's had some serious knee problems and it really impeded him from being able to train hard.

00:49:15.000 He wasn't the best grappler in the world.

00:49:18.000 And so that was always his problem.

00:49:20.000 But as a striker, I mean, that guy was very, very good.

00:49:23.000 And you're seeing him now in boxing.

00:49:25.000 Like, he's making a real run.

00:49:27.000 I think it's very interesting because if you watch him box Rockhold and you realize like Rockhold's a really good striker, but against Darren Till, he looked like he had no business in there.

00:49:37.000 Yeah.

00:49:38.000 That's something I would like to do, man.

00:49:39.000 Box.

00:49:40.000 Still?

00:49:41.000 I always wanted to have a couple before I, you know, but I'm still under contract.

00:49:44.000 Even though I'm retired, I'll still have a contract with the UFC.

00:49:47.000 Do you think the UFC would let you out or they have Zufa boxing?

00:49:49.000 Dude, so they don't, trust me, I already pitched it to him.

00:49:52.000 Did you?

00:49:52.000 Me and Nate Diaz, Zufa boxing, let's go.

00:49:54.000 Let's go.

00:49:55.000 170, whatever.

00:49:56.000 168, super middleweight.

00:49:57.000 Let's do it.

00:49:58.000 They don't want any crossover.

00:49:59.000 What?

00:50:00.000 I think Zufa wants to be taken as a serious.

00:50:01.000 They hate money.

00:50:02.000 They must hate money.

00:50:03.000 Do they hate money?

00:50:04.000 They hate money.

00:50:04.000 Why do they hate money?

00:50:06.000 I don't know.

00:50:07.000 They want to be taken by the boxing world serious.

00:50:09.000 And I think if you open that door of an MMA guy fighting under Zoofa boxing, every guy on the roster, every girl on the roster is going to want to do the same.

00:50:16.000 It just becomes a mess, I think.

00:50:19.000 I don't know about that.

00:50:21.000 I don't think it's a mess.

00:50:22.000 I think there are some really fun MMA boxing matchups you can make.

00:50:25.000 Yes.

00:50:25.000 Fuck yes.

00:50:26.000 Especially when guys get older and you don't want to go through the training camp with wrestling and leg kicks and all that shit.

00:50:32.000 Like thinking about a boxing training camp, dude, with no grappling, no wrestling, just run, condition, and box, it would be insane.

00:50:32.000 That's the thing.

00:50:42.000 I love it.

00:50:43.000 Isn't that funny?

00:50:43.000 Yeah.

00:50:44.000 I'm on the beach.

00:50:45.000 As tough as boxing is, like, for you, like, oh, this is going to be fun.

00:50:48.000 I only have to box.

00:50:48.000 That's great.

00:50:49.000 Yeah.

00:50:50.000 Honestly, man, in training camp, those are my favorite days.

00:50:52.000 Striking, sparring is my favorite days.

00:50:54.000 Like the wrestling class is two-hour Mako on Monday.

00:50:57.000 It's like brutal, bro.

00:50:58.000 Well, it'd be great for you because you've always had great hands.

00:51:01.000 Like for you, that's a perfect.

00:51:04.000 I started boxing before mixed martial arts.

00:51:07.000 That would be a perfect way for you to get some other fights in.

00:51:11.000 I don't understand, Zufa.

00:51:13.000 Yeah.

00:51:13.000 I would just love to lace them up and box professionally once.

00:51:17.000 I know they want to redo boxing, and I know they want to like, and I think there's probably some real merit there.

00:51:24.000 Obviously, what the Saudis have done with Riyadh's season has been amazing, you know, making matchups that no one can make.

00:51:31.000 I'm a big Connor Bent fan too, man.

00:51:32.000 I'm excited to see him fight in Zufa.

00:51:34.000 And the guy he's fighting is from New Orleans.

00:51:36.000 Like, I know the guy.

00:51:37.000 Like, you know, it's fun.

00:51:39.000 It is exciting.

00:51:40.000 And it will definitely, I think they will elevate boxing.

00:51:43.000 And Dana is throwing all of his cards into that.

00:51:46.000 So I'm sure it's going to work.

00:51:47.000 Yeah, I'm glad we're seeing more boxing, Zufo boxing, and less power slap on my feed whenever I go to online stuff.

00:51:54.000 Yeah, I'm not a big fan.

00:51:55.000 I've never been to one, but man, it's just fucking not my jam.

00:51:59.000 Yeah.

00:52:00.000 When I fought my retirement in New Orleans, Mike Brown went to the power slap they had there, and he said it was awesome in person.

00:52:06.000 Oh, sure.

00:52:07.000 It's awesome to watch someone get slapped, but like, I'm not interested.

00:52:11.000 I'll watch it on my fucking phone every now and then.

00:52:14.000 I'll see.

00:52:15.000 I mean, the highlights are good enough.

00:52:16.000 You see the knockouts and the crazy stuff.

00:52:18.000 It's great TikTok content.

00:52:20.000 For sure.

00:52:21.000 You know, you watch someone get slapped and they go forward and their head hits the desk and they fall backwards.

00:52:26.000 But it's like, it's a concussion.

00:52:28.000 And you can't, there's no defense.

00:52:28.000 You're watching.

00:52:30.000 There's no flinch or you get it's penalty if you do that.

00:52:34.000 That don't make any sense to me.

00:52:34.000 That's crazy.

00:52:36.000 I don't get it.

00:52:38.000 But I think they've missed out on the opportunity to have a Muay Thai league.

00:52:42.000 That's what I think.

00:52:43.000 America just doesn't buy into it that big.

00:52:46.000 I don't think that's true.

00:52:47.000 No.

00:52:47.000 No?

00:52:48.000 I just think they have to do it.

00:52:48.000 Well, I mean, one is doing it on Amazon.

00:52:51.000 Yeah.

00:52:51.000 But it's like, who's watching Amazon?

00:52:53.000 That's the problem.

00:52:54.000 You have a show on Amazon?

00:52:55.000 I know guys who've released comedy specials on Amazon.

00:52:58.000 Like, good luck finding it.

00:52:59.000 Nobody cares.

00:53:00.000 That's just the reality of this platform.

00:53:04.000 I mean, look, Amazon is a phenomenal platform for buying stuff.

00:53:07.000 I love it for buying things.

00:53:08.000 Oh, dude.

00:53:08.000 I use it all the time.

00:53:09.000 Every week.

00:53:10.000 It's great for buying books, audiobooks.

00:53:12.000 It's great for buying products.

00:53:14.000 But for watching content, it's kind of a mess.

00:53:17.000 I had a couple big shows like the Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and The Terminalist.

00:53:22.000 Those are great shows.

00:53:23.000 And those brought a lot of people over there.

00:53:25.000 But I mean, you know how big the Terminalist would have been if it was on Netflix?

00:53:28.000 As big as it was on Amazon?

00:53:29.000 More people watch Netflix than are ever going to watch anything on Amazon.

00:53:34.000 That's why what Jake's doing with the Netflix and bringing boxing MMA there, like it's big, man.

00:53:39.000 It's big.

00:53:40.000 So many people are going to be watching this.

00:53:42.000 100%.

00:53:43.000 But I think that if one was somewhere else, I think it would have been better.

00:53:47.000 There you go.

00:53:48.000 On the way here today.

00:53:49.000 Yeah.

00:53:49.000 What?

00:53:50.000 Yeah, that got announced this morning.

00:53:51.000 An MMA fight?

00:53:53.000 Yeah, it's the third fight on that card.

00:53:54.000 That's the Rousey card, yeah.

00:53:55.000 Wow.

00:53:56.000 Interesting.

00:53:58.000 That's very interesting.

00:54:01.000 That's very interesting.

00:54:02.000 That's a good fight.

00:54:03.000 Dude, you said a lot of people don't go to Amazon to watch TV.

00:54:07.000 I just went down a rabbit hole for weeks because I have a newborn at home.

00:54:10.000 So I did the night shift and I ran out of shit to watch on Netflix.

00:54:14.000 You ran out of shit to watch on Netflix.

00:54:16.000 Dude, staying up till 4 a.m. every night with a baby boy is like hours of documentaries, hours of stuff.

00:54:22.000 I switched over to Amazon and it was like a whole new world, man.

00:54:25.000 Well, there's a lot on there.

00:54:27.000 It's just they don't have the same viewers.

00:54:29.000 Like our podcast is on Amazon.

00:54:31.000 The numbers that we get from Amazon compared to everywhere else is so small.

00:54:35.000 It's just the reality of the way they've sort of marketed it.

00:54:38.000 And Amazon Prime Video just doesn't have the audience that everything else does.

00:54:43.000 Right.

00:54:43.000 And it's such a big platform.

00:54:44.000 You'd think it would be crossover from.

00:54:46.000 I think it's a mistake on their part because the product side is so big.

00:54:52.000 Amazon for buying stuff is so big that it's almost like an afterthought.

00:54:55.000 And then there's some money in it, but not the same sort of focus.

00:55:00.000 Also, the interface, when I've gone to it, is a little weird.

00:55:04.000 It's hard to find things.

00:55:05.000 It's not as simple.

00:55:07.000 The interface on Netflix is like the algorithm's great.

00:55:11.000 It's really good at recommending you things.

00:55:13.000 It knows what you like.

00:55:14.000 It shows you things.

00:55:15.000 It's easy to find things.

00:55:16.000 For sure.

00:55:17.000 Amazon's like a little tricky.

00:55:19.000 You go there and you're like, what?

00:55:20.000 But see, the 1 FC thing faces the same problem that PFL has.

00:55:25.000 Like, look, PFL is on ESPN Plus.

00:55:28.000 So you would imagine PFL would get the same sort of audience that the UFC got, but it doesn't.

00:55:33.000 No, of course not.

00:55:34.000 Because the UFC brand is like NFL.

00:55:37.000 The machine.

00:55:38.000 It's just.

00:55:39.000 Yeah, they own that space.

00:55:41.000 But the fights on 1FC are fucking amazing.

00:55:45.000 Like, especially the Muay Thai fights.

00:55:47.000 With the small gloves?

00:55:48.000 Oh, my God, man.

00:55:50.000 And I was trying to pitch this to Dana.

00:55:52.000 So I started sending Dana.

00:55:55.000 He goes, send me some.

00:55:56.000 So I started sending him all these high-level Muay Thai fights and high-level kickboxing fights.

00:56:02.000 And they're fucking phenomenal.

00:56:04.000 Look, he didn't like the Charles Olivera, this Max Holloway Charles Olivera fight.

00:56:11.000 He didn't like it.

00:56:13.000 The BMF fight, the fight wasn't that good.

00:56:15.000 I was like, I thought it was a great fight.

00:56:17.000 It was impressive if you were a fan of technique and a fan of how hard it is to do that to somebody like Max.

00:56:22.000 Like, super impressive.

00:56:23.000 And I was a fan of Max's defense.

00:56:25.000 I mean, Olivera was on his back in the first round.

00:56:28.000 A lot of people would have finished.

00:56:29.000 First minute and a half, I think, you know, dry.

00:56:32.000 Right.

00:56:33.000 I got finished there.

00:56:35.000 Yeah, I mean.

00:56:37.000 I think Olivera is one of the greatest submission artists that ever competed in the sport.

00:56:40.000 If not the best.

00:56:42.000 I mean, numbers prove it.

00:56:43.000 And against elite guys like you and like Justin.

00:56:43.000 Yeah.

00:56:46.000 And like he's fucking.

00:56:47.000 And then Gamrod.

00:56:48.000 I trained with him for years.

00:56:48.000 Dude, Gamrod is.

00:56:50.000 He's a wrestler, but his grappling is incredible, man.

00:56:53.000 No, he got tied up in knots with Olivera.

00:56:56.000 Olivera's a nightmare.

00:56:57.000 I knew it could happen, but I didn't think it would be that.

00:56:59.000 I was stunned too.

00:57:00.000 I was like, God, he's good.

00:57:02.000 He's so good on the ground.

00:57:03.000 So like props to Max for surviving.

00:57:05.000 But if Data didn't like it, so I started sending him.

00:57:09.000 I mean, when you have the title, the BMF, like you want to see some violence.

00:57:13.000 I understand, but it's still just a fight.

00:57:16.000 You can't fight outside of your just because a BMF belt's on the line.

00:57:20.000 You can't go out swinging for the fences.

00:57:22.000 I get it.

00:57:22.000 I get what you're saying.

00:57:23.000 But I mean, on the feet, I think Olivera was winning on the feet.

00:57:26.000 Dude, he hurt Max in the first.

00:57:28.000 I think he hurt him in the fifth.

00:57:29.000 Well, he definitely hurt him in the fifth when they did the point down ground thing, and then he cracked him and rocked him.

00:57:34.000 Olivera fucking cool.

00:57:35.000 He is, man.

00:57:36.000 He is.

00:57:37.000 He's just known we put the label on the grappler because he's finished so many guys and so many bonuses, but he can strike, man.

00:57:42.000 He's good everywhere.

00:57:42.000 Like with the Chandler fight.

00:57:44.000 He almost gets finished in the first round, comes back and hits it with a clean left hook in the second.

00:57:48.000 Yeah.

00:57:49.000 Even fucking good, man.

00:57:50.000 Yeah, knocked him out.

00:57:51.000 Even when I fought him, like he did a good job of picking where the fight happened.

00:57:54.000 He wouldn't fight me in boxing range.

00:57:56.000 It was either all the way in clinch or out where he was teeping my body, staying long.

00:58:00.000 Kicking range or clinching range is kind of where he fought me.

00:58:03.000 The times I did have success was in the boxing range, but he didn't let that happen.

00:58:06.000 Well, it just shows you how fucking good Ilya DiPoria is.

00:58:10.000 Fuck.

00:58:10.000 God damn that dude.

00:58:12.000 Dude, I love Justin.

00:58:13.000 I'm a fan.

00:58:14.000 I don't like this matchup for him.

00:58:16.000 Well, you know what?

00:58:17.000 I mean, Justin knows what he's getting into, and it's hard to count that dude out.

00:58:21.000 He's such an animal.

00:58:22.000 Yeah, he can land the shot.

00:58:24.000 And it's in the White House.

00:58:25.000 Who knows?

00:58:26.000 Who knows what's going to happen?

00:58:27.000 But that dude has the touch of death.

00:58:30.000 He has the touch of death.

00:58:31.000 And he's not a big guy.

00:58:32.000 I've never seen him in person, but I was talking to somebody recently and they said, no, he's 5'7.

00:58:37.000 He's small, man.

00:58:38.000 He's not big.

00:58:39.000 I mean, there's a photo of me standing next to him when we did the podcast.

00:58:42.000 We're standing next to you.

00:58:43.000 He's much smaller than me.

00:58:45.000 And, bro, he puts people into the shadow realm.

00:58:48.000 It's just technique and confidence.

00:58:51.000 His confidence is crazy.

00:58:54.000 He had a victory party for the Olivera fight the night before.

00:58:58.000 Drinking wine.

00:59:00.000 I don't think he was drinking wine.

00:59:01.000 I think he was drinking water the night before, but he has drank wine in weigh-ins when he's getting ready to weigh in or what do the weight cut.

00:59:08.000 He only did that for two camps, he told me, though.

00:59:11.000 He said, it's too much.

00:59:12.000 I was just like fucking hungover the next day.

00:59:14.000 Like, what am I doing?

00:59:14.000 Right.

00:59:15.000 And you're about to get your brain beat up.

00:59:16.000 You're dehydrating.

00:59:17.000 Well, I think he's dehydrating himself, and he said the wine actually helps you get dehydrated.

00:59:17.000 Come on.

00:59:17.000 You're drinking.

00:59:21.000 Yeah, alcohol definitely does.

00:59:23.000 Yeah, which is, but it's nobody does that.

00:59:24.000 Nobody drinks wine for the weigh-ins.

00:59:27.000 That's crazy.

00:59:28.000 And, like, I'm so not drinking anything.

00:59:28.000 No, bro.

00:59:31.000 I'm so depleted by that time.

00:59:32.000 I know.

00:59:33.000 And he's getting hammered.

00:59:34.000 Lucky.

00:59:36.000 And winning world championships.

00:59:37.000 Well, it was only two fights he did that for.

00:59:39.000 So it became like something where people are pretending he does it every way.

00:59:42.000 He's got all these young fighters out there in the world drinking on the other day.

00:59:45.000 I'm going to be like the champ, man.

00:59:48.000 But he's crazy talented.

00:59:48.000 Yeah.

00:59:52.000 In a weird way.

00:59:52.000 For sure.

00:59:53.000 Whatever it is, he has it.

00:59:55.000 Yeah.

00:59:55.000 He has it.

00:59:56.000 He's got it in his mind.

00:59:57.000 He's got it in his technique.

00:59:58.000 His grappling's fun.

00:59:59.000 I watched a video of him grappling with Murab, and he was all over Murab.

01:00:03.000 And that's crazy.

01:00:04.000 That's what they say.

01:00:05.000 His grappling's just as good, if not better, than his stand-up.

01:00:08.000 That's where he started.

01:00:09.000 He started as a grappler.

01:00:10.000 I've never seen him grapple, though.

01:00:11.000 Well, he finished Bryce Mitchell on the ground, and he's finished a few people on the ground.

01:00:20.000 He does clearly have phenomenal submission ability.

01:00:23.000 What are you showing me here?

01:00:25.000 What is this him?

01:00:26.000 He says he's done it for a long time.

01:00:28.000 You can see his face was already sucked in a little bit.

01:00:30.000 He said that when he was on the podcast, though, that he only did it twice.

01:00:34.000 Three years ago.

01:00:35.000 That's hilarious.

01:00:36.000 Look, he's all tipsy and drunk.

01:00:38.000 Look, I tell this to young fighters.

01:00:39.000 There's no right.

01:00:40.000 I mean, obviously, don't smoke crack before a fight.

01:00:43.000 There's no right or wrong way.

01:00:44.000 Everybody's different.

01:00:45.000 Whatever makes you feel comfortable to perform and compete, like everybody's different.

01:00:50.000 If there was a cookie cutter perfect way to work, everybody would do it.

01:00:52.000 Well, look at Carlos Pratez.

01:00:54.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:00:55.000 Smoking cigarettes.

01:00:56.000 Smoking cigarettes, like the day of the fight.

01:00:58.000 He's sitting there smoking marshes.

01:00:59.000 Dart reds.

01:01:00.000 Darts.

01:01:02.000 Who was the boxer?

01:01:03.000 Fucking everybody up back in the day.

01:01:05.000 Oh, yeah, Majorga.

01:01:06.000 Mayorga.

01:01:06.000 Cardamorga.

01:01:07.000 Yes.

01:01:08.000 He was big.

01:01:08.000 Smoking cigarettes.

01:01:09.000 Drinking fucking Carlos drinking whiskey, smoking sigs.

01:01:09.000 Yeah.

01:01:14.000 He's like, during a party, you know, he's going to fuck people up.

01:01:17.000 Respect.

01:01:18.000 Yeah.

01:01:18.000 I mean, he's going to fight.

01:01:20.000 Is he fighting Jack de la Maddalena?

01:01:22.000 Is that the fight?

01:01:24.000 I believe that's the fight in Perth.

01:01:26.000 That is a very good fight.

01:01:27.000 Yeah.

01:01:28.000 A tough one for Jack to come back to, man.

01:01:31.000 I was in MSG when Islam took the belt from him, dude.

01:01:34.000 Complete domination.

01:01:35.000 Well, that's another guy.

01:01:36.000 Complete domination.

01:01:37.000 And Ilya was talking about fighting him too.

01:01:40.000 You know, the size difference would be so big.

01:01:42.000 Islam is huge.

01:01:42.000 So big.

01:01:43.000 He's huge.

01:01:44.000 He's huge.

01:01:45.000 He's too big for 55, and then you see him at 170.

01:01:48.000 Like, how did you ever make 55?

01:01:50.000 Right.

01:01:51.000 Because he's so dominant at 170.

01:01:54.000 Yeah, Hunter from the UFC.

01:01:56.000 I was in his office not too long ago, and they keep record of all the weights fight night.

01:02:00.000 They don't release them all, but they keep it.

01:02:01.000 And we were talking about the Islam fight when I fought Islam and he was telling me his weight.

01:02:04.000 I was like, that's exciting.

01:02:05.000 What is 192 or something?

01:02:08.000 I think.

01:02:09.000 The day of the fight?

01:02:10.000 I think so, yeah.

01:02:11.000 Something more 190, 191.

01:02:11.000 That's crazy.

01:02:13.000 Something around there.

01:02:14.000 That's crazy.

01:02:15.000 I was 176.

01:02:16.000 That's crazy.

01:02:17.000 But it looks like it in the cage.

01:02:19.000 Like, whenever I go.

01:02:20.000 I know.

01:02:20.000 I looked across under those spotlights and they had veins in his shoulders and shit.

01:02:23.000 I'm like, fuck, this guy's huge.

01:02:25.000 The ones where I'm like, how?

01:02:27.000 Gregory Rodriguez is the one where I'm like, how?

01:02:29.000 Yeah.

01:02:30.000 How?

01:02:31.000 How are you 185?

01:02:31.000 How?

01:02:32.000 How?

01:02:33.000 You're 6'3.

01:02:35.000 You're built like a Greek god.

01:02:36.000 How?

01:02:37.000 How do you ever weigh 185?

01:02:38.000 How is that even possible?

01:02:40.000 Whenever I interview him, I'm like, how?

01:02:43.000 Because I'm standing next to you, and I'm like, that doesn't make any sense.

01:02:43.000 Right.

01:02:48.000 You're not a 185-pound guy.

01:02:50.000 You're huge.

01:02:50.000 Like in his prime when Luke Rocco was a champion?

01:02:53.000 He's huge, man.

01:02:54.000 Huge.

01:02:56.000 Yo, Romero.

01:02:57.000 Yo, At Romero is the best example.

01:02:57.000 Yeah.

01:02:59.000 Like, how?

01:03:00.000 How are you 185?

01:03:01.000 Built like an Anvil, dude.

01:03:02.000 Solid all the way through.

01:03:03.000 When he came in to do the podcast and Joey Diaz translated for him, he was like 230.

01:03:08.000 Just like his neck starts at the top of his head.

01:03:08.000 Yeah.

01:03:11.000 Just a tank.

01:03:12.000 And shredded always.

01:03:14.000 No jiggle.

01:03:15.000 Dude, shredded always.

01:03:16.000 Veins in his abs, like crazy.

01:03:18.000 Yeah, and he was talking about the Cuban program.

01:03:20.000 I'll never forget.

01:03:21.000 It was like talking about how they have the lower-level guys only eat twice a day, but the top-level guys eat three times a day.

01:03:31.000 And so everybody is competing literally for food.

01:03:35.000 Crazy, you say that in Angola prison in Louisiana, there's a boxing league.

01:03:40.000 If you're on the boxing league and get accepted into it, you get more meals and stuff.

01:03:44.000 So the same thing, these prisoners are trying their best to stay on this boxing league.

01:03:48.000 You get more meals, more time, more free time.

01:03:50.000 Wow.

01:03:51.000 They actually fight other prisons, man.

01:03:52.000 Whoa.

01:03:53.000 I was thinking this would be a great documentary to come out with.

01:03:56.000 That would be a great documentary.

01:03:57.000 And it's CCTV to the other prisons, so other prisons can watch in their cells.

01:04:02.000 They bus them to Angola.

01:04:02.000 Whoa.

01:04:04.000 Other prisons in Louisiana, they box.

01:04:07.000 They put out a schedule every year.

01:04:08.000 If you ever want to go to one, it's invite only, but I can't.

01:04:11.000 I'd rather watch at home.

01:04:12.000 Bro, it feels illegal, dude.

01:04:15.000 It feels illegal.

01:04:16.000 Well, it might not be legal in other states.

01:04:18.000 Yeah, it might not be legal in Louisiana.

01:04:20.000 I might be getting in trouble saying this.

01:04:23.000 Is anybody any good?

01:04:24.000 Hell yeah.

01:04:25.000 You think Bernard Hoffman came out of jail?

01:04:27.000 I mean, the guy, obviously, Tyson beat him, but the Black Rhino was an Angola boxing prisoner who got out or pardoned to fight Mike Tyson.

01:04:36.000 Really?

01:04:36.000 Yeah.

01:04:37.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:04:38.000 Wow.

01:04:40.000 That's crazy.

01:04:41.000 I did not know that.

01:04:42.000 So do they have a program where they have coaches?

01:04:45.000 They have to.

01:04:46.000 Do they have equipment and everything?

01:04:48.000 Wow.

01:04:49.000 And different, according to the schedule, they'll bus them to the other prisons to fight, and it's played through all the prisons in Louisiana.

01:04:56.000 Man, you find a highly skilled guy who's in that program.

01:04:59.000 And they let him go, bro.

01:05:01.000 The refs, they're legitimate refs, but they let the fights go, man.

01:05:04.000 What kind of nutrition are they getting, though?

01:05:06.000 They're getting prison food?

01:05:07.000 Are they getting any better food?

01:05:07.000 Yeah.

01:05:08.000 No, prison food, but they get more meals.

01:05:11.000 They get to eat extra.

01:05:12.000 Still terrible food, right?

01:05:14.000 Yeah.

01:05:15.000 Yeah, Angola's a crazy, crazy prison, man.

01:05:18.000 Grow all the food there, make all the clothes there.

01:05:20.000 They grow their food there?

01:05:21.000 Yeah.

01:05:21.000 Awesome really.

01:05:22.000 Self-sustaining.

01:05:23.000 It's not bad.

01:05:23.000 Self-sustaining.

01:05:24.000 I'm sure they ship a bunch of stuff in, but they do have crops.

01:05:27.000 And it's such a big operation that the guards and the staff live on the prison grounds.

01:05:32.000 There's an elementary school.

01:05:34.000 Really?

01:05:35.000 Yeah, the guards, kids, and stuff go to school on the grounds.

01:05:39.000 It's wild, man.

01:05:40.000 Oh, that can't be good.

01:05:41.000 It's wild.

01:05:42.000 Every October, they have the rodeo there.

01:05:45.000 Article about that boxing association from 2011.

01:05:48.000 Wow.

01:05:49.000 I was in an interview with some people, I think, that were part of it.

01:05:52.000 Well, you want to focus.

01:05:54.000 You know, women weakened legs ain't no woman in there, dog.

01:05:57.000 Hell no.

01:05:59.000 That's crazy.

01:06:00.000 Yeah, serious business, man.

01:06:02.000 I did not know that.

01:06:03.000 That's nuts, man.

01:06:05.000 Yeah, how come no one's done a documentary on this, or have they?

01:06:08.000 Well, B-Hop was a prison boxer in Philly, right?

01:06:08.000 I know.

01:06:12.000 Yeah.

01:06:13.000 Yeah, this would be a great documentary, man.

01:06:15.000 Interesting.

01:06:16.000 Yeah, Bernard learned, I mean, I mean, learned like real discipline in prison and also learned that he never wants to go back.

01:06:23.000 No.

01:06:24.000 You know, which is as important.

01:06:27.000 And I think Angola is like maximum security.

01:06:30.000 So you don't go there if you have less than like 25 years or something.

01:06:34.000 So these guys are in there for a long time just trying to find things to do and boxing, eating extra, getting more free time.

01:06:40.000 Why wouldn't you do it?

01:06:41.000 Awesome.

01:06:41.000 Get in shape.

01:06:42.000 Keeps you focused.

01:06:42.000 You have something to concentrate on other than the fact that you're in jail.

01:06:46.000 Yeah.

01:06:47.000 Yeah.

01:06:48.000 They set up a ring like in a cafeteria.

01:06:48.000 It was wild, bro.

01:06:51.000 I went there once to watch it.

01:06:52.000 It was insane.

01:06:53.000 Wow.

01:06:54.000 It felt like I was doing something wrong.

01:06:56.000 It felt like I was doing something wrong.

01:06:58.000 Were the guys good?

01:06:59.000 Fuck yeah.

01:06:59.000 Some of them were good, man.

01:07:00.000 Wow.

01:07:01.000 Really good.

01:07:02.000 Wow.

01:07:03.000 Fuck.

01:07:05.000 That's interesting.

01:07:06.000 They pardoned that guy.

01:07:07.000 There's titles, too.

01:07:08.000 They have belts.

01:07:09.000 The Black Rhino.

01:07:10.000 Clifford, maybe?

01:07:11.000 ATN.

01:07:12.000 Yes.

01:07:13.000 That's right.

01:07:14.000 So he was in prison boxing in Angola and he fought Tyson.

01:07:16.000 Wow.

01:07:19.000 No shit.

01:07:19.000 Yeah.

01:07:20.000 I mean, why not, man?

01:07:21.000 At least it gives them something to focus on.

01:07:23.000 The idea is like, oh, you're going to make a more dangerous felon?

01:07:26.000 Bro, they're dangerous.

01:07:28.000 They're dangerous.

01:07:28.000 They're in there for murder.

01:07:29.000 What do you think?

01:07:30.000 They're in there for armed robbery, murder.

01:07:30.000 What do you think?

01:07:32.000 Like, let them fight.

01:07:34.000 Right.

01:07:34.000 Doing life.

01:07:36.000 Exactly.

01:07:36.000 Right.

01:07:37.000 Like, also, we're trying to pretend that that's not going to improve the quality of their life and improve them as a human being.

01:07:43.000 Like, doing something difficult, even if it's difficult and violent, like fighting, will make you a better human being.

01:07:49.000 For sure.

01:07:49.000 Will make you tougher, smarter, more disciplined, more focused.

01:07:53.000 Also, release all the aggression there so you don't have aggression in like regular altercations nearly as much.

01:08:00.000 Yeah.

01:08:01.000 That's where I'm at right now.

01:08:02.000 Like leaving fighting in the rear view is like, what do I do with my life now?

01:08:07.000 It's days along.

01:08:08.000 Dude, I've been traveling so much twice a week, maybe.

01:08:12.000 If I'm home on Friday, I do open matchups.

01:08:14.000 A couple kickboxing classes if I can make it.

01:08:16.000 But I've just been traveling so much, man.

01:08:18.000 Why have you been traveling so much?

01:08:19.000 Sponsors, appearances, cornering buddies, like just saying yes to everything that I couldn't before.

01:08:27.000 I'm more busy now, I think, because before I would shut everything down, like I got to get ready for this fight.

01:08:31.000 I have to focus on this.

01:08:33.000 No, I can't do anything.

01:08:34.000 Black out these dates.

01:08:35.000 Now it's like.

01:08:36.000 You're really good on the desk, man.

01:08:37.000 I enjoy it, man.

01:08:38.000 I really do.

01:08:38.000 You can tell.

01:08:39.000 Yeah.

01:08:40.000 I mean, I think that's one of the best things that the UFC does with former fighters is they give them this opportunity to do stuff on the desk.

01:08:48.000 I think that's huge.

01:08:50.000 I hope they keep bringing me.

01:08:51.000 I just signed a contract for the year.

01:08:53.000 When it was ESPN, I was kind of doing like independence contractor stuff.

01:08:57.000 They would ask me.

01:08:57.000 I would say yes, but I'm on contract with the UFC for a year.

01:09:00.000 So hopefully they keep bringing me, man.

01:09:02.000 All the people behind the scenes, just being around the event that I've, you know, I've fought at for so long, it just makes me feel good.

01:09:08.000 Yeah.

01:09:09.000 And I get nervous because it's live TV.

01:09:10.000 You can't fuck up.

01:09:11.000 You know, live TV is different.

01:09:13.000 Well, I would like to see they allow more of you guys to take the spots doing fights in commentary.

01:09:20.000 Oh, like color?

01:09:22.000 Yeah.

01:09:23.000 I mean, right now it's just Dominic Cruz, Paul Felder, Michael Bisping, and DC.

01:09:28.000 That's essentially it.

01:09:29.000 Yeah.

01:09:30.000 I mean, those are only former fighters from the UFC that are doing it.

01:09:34.000 And I really think there's room for more guys.

01:09:37.000 Dan Hardy was great.

01:09:38.000 He was awesome at it.

01:09:38.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:09:39.000 Yeah, he was.

01:09:40.000 I don't know what the fuck happened with him in the UFC.

01:09:42.000 They had some sort of a squabble and he left, but he's fantastic over at PFL.

01:09:46.000 He's still with them?

01:09:47.000 Yeah.

01:09:48.000 Yeah, he does that.

01:09:49.000 He's really good, man.

01:09:50.000 He breaks stuff down.

01:09:52.000 Yeah.

01:09:52.000 Very good.

01:09:53.000 Very good.

01:09:54.000 I've known him forever.

01:09:54.000 And he's a great guy.

01:09:56.000 He was a 10th planet jiu-jitsu guy, so I've known him since like, fuck, I must have met him 20 years ago.

01:10:02.000 Wow.

01:10:02.000 Yeah.

01:10:02.000 I didn't know that.

01:10:03.000 Yeah, before he was fighting GSP, before he's fighting any of those guys, I knew him.

01:10:10.000 He would come over from England to train in America.

01:10:12.000 He was such a knockout artist.

01:10:13.000 We never really get to see him do jiu-jitsu.

01:10:15.000 Yeah, no, he was good at jiu-jitsu too, man.

01:10:17.000 I mean, he trained hard.

01:10:19.000 And he's just a very smart dude who knows a lot about the sport.

01:10:22.000 Yeah, it seems like when he's breaking down stuff, you can tell he's studied.

01:10:26.000 He's also just like a very skillful commentator because he's very intelligent.

01:10:30.000 And the way he describes things, it's exciting.

01:10:34.000 I mean, I think they, I don't know what happened with them.

01:10:37.000 And when I'm on the desk with those guys, I try my best to not break things down too much.

01:10:42.000 Like on the stats side, I try to make it seem like a conversation, sitting on the couch watching fights with your boys where I talk about experiences that I've had and stuff because they explained it to me.

01:10:52.000 Like that's what fans want to see.

01:10:53.000 If they want to look up stats, they'll go look it up.

01:10:55.000 They don't want to hear you talk about submission attempts and exact stats.

01:10:58.000 They want to know your experience.

01:11:00.000 Yeah.

01:11:00.000 So like each rep, I think I'm getting better, you know, opening up and being more myself.

01:11:04.000 I'm trying to do a good job, man.

01:11:05.000 I really, really enjoy it.

01:11:06.000 I think stats are interesting sometimes, but what's really more important than that is like a technical breakdown of abilities.

01:11:13.000 Right.

01:11:13.000 Because stats, it's variable depending on who you're fighting.

01:11:17.000 Like, you take Charles Oliveira's stats, and then you say his fight with Islam Makachev, and you say, okay, well, where's the stats?

01:11:24.000 Like, it's like, it's really dependent upon skill sets, who's your level of competition, who you're competing with.

01:11:31.000 You know what I mean?

01:11:32.000 That was a quick submission, though.

01:11:34.000 The stats are one submission attempt, one submission.

01:11:37.000 Bro, he's got a crushing squeeze.

01:11:40.000 It's different to that.

01:11:41.000 Yeah.

01:11:42.000 Yeah, he strangled me.

01:11:43.000 And the way he did it, I think he Moikano filled in last minute to fight Islam and got caught with the same choke.

01:11:50.000 It's kind of like a Darsh choke, but he locks it on his forearm.

01:11:54.000 He doesn't go to the bicep.

01:11:55.000 I know.

01:11:56.000 He's pulling to his chest.

01:11:56.000 And the squeeze is different.

01:11:58.000 It's not like an angle squeeze.

01:12:00.000 It's different.

01:12:00.000 So the defense is different.

01:12:01.000 When I got my legs out and tried to walk around, he hooked my leg, but the squeeze is completely different.

01:12:06.000 Completely different.

01:12:08.000 You know, you belly down and kind of get some space to breathe.

01:12:11.000 You can't the way he does it.

01:12:12.000 Craig Jones broke it down.

01:12:14.000 It's like a front choke, almost like a squeeze to your chest.

01:12:18.000 It's not an angle that you use for a normal Darsh choke.

01:12:20.000 I know.

01:12:21.000 I was shocked the first time I saw him do it.

01:12:23.000 I was like, maybe he just couldn't cinch up the bicep.

01:12:26.000 And then I saw him do it a second time.

01:12:27.000 I was like, no, This guy's trying to do it that way.

01:12:30.000 He grabs right here.

01:12:32.000 Craig Jones pulls to his chest.

01:12:34.000 He has some breakdown of it on YouTube where he explains why it's effective and what's so good about it.

01:12:40.000 And when he gets the grip locked in, it's complete, immediate blood shutdown.

01:12:44.000 You know, usually you feel it slowly fading away.

01:12:46.000 It was like right away.

01:12:48.000 Wow, so that dude's got a background-through movie on.

01:12:52.000 The darkness started coming in as soon as he got the grip.

01:12:55.000 Yeah.

01:12:55.000 Really?

01:12:56.000 He's so fucking strong, man.

01:12:58.000 There's like something about those Dagestan guys, man.

01:13:01.000 Like the discipline those motherfuckers have.

01:13:04.000 You know, there's Dagestan guys that are making their way into Muay Thai now, too.

01:13:04.000 Yeah.

01:13:08.000 There's this dude, Asadullah Iman Ghazaliv.

01:13:12.000 I talk about him all the time, but I can't talk about him enough.

01:13:15.000 He's one of those one FC guys that is fighting in Muay Thai from Dagestan.

01:13:21.000 And this fucking kid is 22 years old and he's knocking out like multiple time world tie champions.

01:13:28.000 I've never seen him.

01:13:29.000 Bro, this dude is a freak.

01:13:33.000 I mean, he's just putting people into the shadow realm every fight.

01:13:37.000 Dude, it's so wild to fight four-ounce gloves in Muay Thai.

01:13:40.000 I know.

01:13:41.000 But I mean, you could throw elbows and stuff in knees.

01:13:43.000 It's perfect.

01:13:44.000 It's like four-ounce gloves.

01:13:46.000 I mean, look, you're throwing elbows, knees, everything else in the clinch.

01:13:49.000 It allows you to grapple better.

01:13:51.000 It just makes it so much more dangerous for the blocking.

01:13:53.000 You know, you don't have the gloves covering all the space around your ears.

01:13:56.000 But this cat is special, man.

01:13:58.000 He's special.

01:13:59.000 Nasty man.

01:14:00.000 And he's from Dagestan.

01:14:01.000 It's like, okay, imagine this motherfucker gets into MMA.

01:14:04.000 Everybody's fucked.

01:14:06.000 If this guy can wrestle at all, which you know he can if he's from fucking Dagestan.

01:14:10.000 Well, they do a lot of kickboxing sambo, right?

01:14:12.000 Yeah.

01:14:13.000 This dude's something, though.

01:14:15.000 He's something new.

01:14:16.000 Oh, my God.

01:14:16.000 Because he's 22 years old.

01:14:18.000 And he's like world Muay Thai champions.

01:14:20.000 He's sleeping them all.

01:14:22.000 Yeah.

01:14:22.000 It's nuts, man.

01:14:24.000 What weight is that?

01:14:25.000 145.

01:14:27.000 I think he's 145 or 35.

01:14:29.000 145.

01:14:30.000 Probably tall, taller than me.

01:14:31.000 132.

01:14:32.000 132?

01:14:33.000 Is that what it says?

01:14:34.000 This thing right here says on screen.

01:14:37.000 Weight limit, 132.7.

01:14:39.000 Interesting.

01:14:40.000 510.

01:14:42.000 Interesting.

01:14:43.000 60 kilograms.

01:14:44.000 22 years old, man.

01:14:46.000 Well, at that weight, well, and then you think about one has some crazy thing.

01:14:50.000 Win, knockout, win, knockout, win, knockout.

01:14:50.000 Look at this.

01:14:53.000 He's a freak, man.

01:14:54.000 And that one dude that made it to the unanimous decision is just this kid from Morocco who's just tough as shit.

01:15:00.000 But goddamn, he took a beating.

01:15:02.000 They have such a great product, man.

01:15:04.000 I wonder how many viewers and how the ratings are.

01:15:07.000 I mean, it's big in Asia, but they have financial struggles.

01:15:11.000 I don't want to speak to it because I don't know enough, but there's a lot of talk.

01:15:15.000 I know they wanted to start doing shows in America.

01:15:17.000 They've done a few.

01:15:18.000 I know they did one in Colorado.

01:15:18.000 Yeah.

01:15:20.000 They maybe have done multiple.

01:15:21.000 I'm not aware.

01:15:22.000 But it's a great product.

01:15:24.000 That's the thing.

01:15:24.000 It's like I love watching their kickboxing fights on YouTube.

01:15:28.000 And that kid, Yuki Yoza, that I was telling you about that throws calf kicks, he's fucking everybody up with calf kicks.

01:15:34.000 And there's another guy from a lot of these Kyokushin guys, especially in kickboxing.

01:15:39.000 So like they have different rule sets over there in one.

01:15:42.000 You can fight kickboxing where they use big gloves, or you could fight Muay Thai, where they use little gloves.

01:15:49.000 And I think they've had Muay Thai fights where they have big gloves too.

01:15:52.000 So in the kickboxing, you're not allowed to clinch, not allowed to throw elbows.

01:15:56.000 But you can throw knees, but you can't clinch and just continue to throw knees.

01:16:00.000 And you can't sweep and can't take guys down.

01:16:02.000 It's a little confusing.

01:16:04.000 I think Muay Thai is the way to go.

01:16:06.000 But the thing about kickboxing in Japan is like they just wanted to, that's what K1 was.

01:16:11.000 They're like, let's just take out all the clinching and make this as exciting as possible.

01:16:16.000 What's the best way to do that?

01:16:18.000 And the elbows, elbows are very effective, obviously, and knock a lot of guys out, but also cut a lot of people open and stop fights prematurely, which is why Pride didn't allow elbows, which is really crazy when you think about that.

01:16:32.000 Because soccer kicks and stomps.

01:16:35.000 But you were fighting multiple times.

01:16:37.000 True.

01:16:38.000 Cuts, you know, if you get cut in the first fight, it could change everything.

01:16:40.000 I think that makes sense.

01:16:41.000 I kind of, but I mean, soccer kicks?

01:16:43.000 Stomps and soccer kicks?

01:16:45.000 Yeah.

01:16:45.000 No elbows?

01:16:46.000 It's hard to say because for-let knees to a grounded guy.

01:16:49.000 Yeah.

01:16:50.000 Ground and prown elbows are so effective.

01:16:53.000 It's so important.

01:16:54.000 I mean, it really, like, guys that think they're comfortable and safe in the guard, you're not.

01:16:59.000 You're not when a guy can still bust you up with elbows from a short distance.

01:17:03.000 It's a very effective technique.

01:17:04.000 Yeah, very damaging cut.

01:17:06.000 Yeah, very, very damaging technique.

01:17:09.000 Well, there's a real problem with the cage, and the problem is the wall.

01:17:12.000 Like, the fence is an artificial structure that keeps you from being able to move.

01:17:18.000 And I've always said this: that I think it should be an open mat.

01:17:21.000 It should be a large mat.

01:17:23.000 And you should not.

01:17:25.000 Yeah, like a big wrestling mat.

01:17:25.000 Like a wrestling mat?

01:17:27.000 Like, think about a basketball game.

01:17:29.000 Like, think about how much space is on a basketball court.

01:17:32.000 And you still get 16,000 people in there to watch a basketball game.

01:17:35.000 Guys would be, I would think, running, running around a lot of.

01:17:40.000 You know, maybe you get penalty.

01:17:41.000 Penalty for moving too much.

01:17:42.000 Maybe you have a pride.

01:17:43.000 Yeah.

01:17:44.000 Yellow card?

01:17:44.000 You have a red zone.

01:17:45.000 Well, you have a center that you're supposed to stay in, and then you have a red zone outside of it.

01:17:50.000 And then you have a black zone outside the red zone where you get points taken away.

01:17:54.000 You enter into the red zone too many times.

01:17:56.000 You get a warning for the first time, another warning for the second time, third time, you get a point taken away.

01:18:00.000 So you could use it once or twice to evade, but then you got to go back into the area where you're supposed to fight.

01:18:06.000 I think that would be cool.

01:18:07.000 How big of an area are you talking about?

01:18:08.000 Basketball court.

01:18:09.000 That's too big, man.

01:18:11.000 That's too big.

01:18:12.000 How about football fucking field?

01:18:12.000 How about football?

01:18:15.000 Meet the center.

01:18:15.000 Meeting.

01:18:16.000 That's too big.

01:18:17.000 They're doing that with no rules fights.

01:18:18.000 Yeah.

01:18:19.000 Yeah, I watch a lot of no rules fights.

01:18:20.000 They're hard.

01:18:21.000 The Russian stuff?

01:18:22.000 They're so scary because guys just mount guys and gouge their eyes out.

01:18:26.000 Yeah.

01:18:26.000 They're mounting people and just shoving their fingers in there, and guys are screaming and tapping.

01:18:31.000 I run across some pretty crazy stuff on IG sometimes.

01:18:35.000 But they're fighting in parking lots.

01:18:37.000 They're fighting on booths.

01:18:38.000 Yeah.

01:18:39.000 Cars, upside down, underwater.

01:18:40.000 They're fighting everywhere.

01:18:41.000 They're fighting everywhere.

01:18:42.000 I saw them on a cargo container floating on top of water where you get knocked off.

01:18:47.000 That's crazy.

01:18:48.000 It's so ridiculous.

01:18:50.000 American Gladiator.

01:18:51.000 KO'd and you fall into the water and you just breathe water and they don't rescue you in time.

01:18:55.000 Just fight with those kid floaties on.

01:18:58.000 If you get knocked out, you just float to the top.

01:19:00.000 Instead of those Muay Thai things, Blow them up.

01:19:04.000 Your corners blowing them up.

01:19:06.000 Yeah.

01:19:06.000 But I think the cage.

01:19:09.000 You know how the UFC BJJ does that sloped surface?

01:19:15.000 A perfect karate combat.

01:19:16.000 Karate combat.

01:19:17.000 Karate Combat does that sloped surface.

01:19:19.000 That's a good one.

01:19:19.000 And that's a big space they fight in karate combat.

01:19:21.000 Yeah.

01:19:22.000 Something like that, I think, would be good.

01:19:23.000 It would be better.

01:19:25.000 There's something about the, but the problem is then you're backing up and you hit that ramp and you fall down.

01:19:30.000 Or what was the old karate?

01:19:33.000 It was like, I don't think it was Chuck Norse.

01:19:34.000 Chuck Norris.

01:19:35.000 Yeah.

01:19:35.000 Chuck Norse.

01:19:35.000 His league, something like that.

01:19:36.000 Yeah, I think it was World Combat League or something.

01:19:39.000 I went to see that one.

01:19:40.000 WCF.

01:19:41.000 Yeah, something like that.

01:19:42.000 World Combat Federation.

01:19:43.000 Yeah.

01:19:44.000 I think the first guy to do a slanted thing, though, was Frank Shamrock.

01:19:49.000 You know, a lot of people don't realize that Frank Shamrock had an organization for a while.

01:19:53.000 And they fought in like this sloped sort of thing.

01:19:57.000 Fucking Kumite.

01:19:59.000 I think he might have been the first guy.

01:20:01.000 Frank was way ahead of his time.

01:20:04.000 Way ahead of his time.

01:20:05.000 And he's another guy that got erased from, because he had a falling out with the UFC.

01:20:10.000 And he got kind of erased from the lineage of elite fighters from the past.

01:20:14.000 Fighting older in Strike Force, like still bodied up.

01:20:17.000 I know.

01:20:18.000 He was a student of martial arts.

01:20:20.000 Yes.

01:20:21.000 But by the time he got to Strike Force, his kind of best days were behind him, like when Nick Diaz beat him up.

01:20:28.000 He wasn't the same guy.

01:20:29.000 When he fought Phil Baroni, it wasn't the same guy.

01:20:31.000 He had a lot of knee problems, and it's like, it's just not, after a while, it's like, he might have been like 40s in Strikeforce.

01:20:39.000 I don't know how old he was.

01:20:40.000 Late 30s, 40s.

01:20:41.000 Late 30s for sure.

01:20:42.000 But when you go back to his fights in the UFC, I mean, he was a pioneer, man.

01:20:47.000 When he fought Tito or Ts, he was nowhere near Tito's size.

01:20:51.000 And he just beat Tito with cardio, just cardio and defense.

01:20:54.000 And then eventually wore his ass down and beat him up and changed Tito's entire strategy for fighting after that.

01:21:00.000 He was one of the guys early who was like super fit, super, you know, really focused on his health and nutrition and supplementation and everything.

01:21:10.000 Back then, you didn't see a whole lot of that, but he was one of the guys for sure.

01:21:12.000 Well, the Lions Den, you know, Ken Shamrock's, the thing that they put guys through, this gauntlet that they put guys through in order to make the team, to make the fight team, was hell.

01:21:24.000 It was just hell.

01:21:25.000 They wanted guys to break.

01:21:27.000 And so extreme conditioning, extreme mental toughness, like all that was emphasized.

01:21:34.000 And so Frank was the best example of that, though, because he was elite everywhere.

01:21:40.000 He was taking guys down.

01:21:42.000 He had great submissions.

01:21:43.000 He had great striking.

01:21:45.000 And, you know, he fought some wild fights, man.

01:21:48.000 He fought Ensign.

01:21:50.000 I don't remember where that was.

01:21:52.000 Was that in K1?

01:21:54.000 But he beat Ensign with knees.

01:21:58.000 He had fought in multiple organizations.

01:22:00.000 Obviously, he started out in Pancrease.

01:22:02.000 But he had only been training for like a year or something like that when he fought boss rooting in Pancrace.

01:22:08.000 He was super fucking talented, man.

01:22:12.000 They let him wear boots, right?

01:22:13.000 Or some kind of leg.

01:22:14.000 Yeah, you had some weird shin pad deal.

01:22:17.000 You had wrestling shoes with shin pads and open-hand slaps.

01:22:23.000 It was always Palm.

01:22:23.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:22:24.000 Uh-huh.

01:22:25.000 So what is this in?

01:22:25.000 Yeah.

01:22:27.000 Does it say what it's in?

01:22:30.000 2011.

01:22:31.000 This says UFC.

01:22:32.000 It's not UFC.

01:22:34.000 Oh, it's Valley Tudo Japan.

01:22:36.000 Yeah, this was before 2011.

01:22:38.000 Yeah.

01:22:39.000 Okay, so this is Valley Tudo Japan.

01:22:41.000 So Valley Tudo Japan, I wonder if it's the same Valley Tudo that Hickson fought in.

01:22:46.000 So Hickson was the champion of Valley Tudo Japan early on.

01:22:52.000 Well, that was like in the documentary Choke.

01:22:54.000 You've seen that, right?

01:22:56.000 A long time ago, yeah.

01:22:56.000 Documentary rules.

01:22:57.000 Yeah, man.

01:22:58.000 That documentary rules.

01:23:01.000 That's how Hickson became a legend.

01:23:03.000 Back in the real NHB, no, no rules days.

01:23:08.000 Well, the first UFC that I went to was UFC 12 in Dothan, Alabama.

01:23:13.000 And you could wear wrestling shoes.

01:23:15.000 You could punch guys in the nuts.

01:23:17.000 Hair pulling.

01:23:18.000 Yeah.

01:23:18.000 Grab their clothes.

01:23:19.000 No weight classes.

01:23:21.000 There was two weight classes back then.

01:23:24.000 Like, because Vitor won the heavyweight tournament back then.

01:23:28.000 I think they had two weight classes back then.

01:23:31.000 So they still recognize that there's some smaller guys and some big guys.

01:23:34.000 The smaller guys are real talented, but they're never going to beat the big giant guys.

01:23:38.000 So let's have a weight class for them.

01:23:40.000 Yeah.

01:23:42.000 I remember written VHS tapes with my dad or the old UFCs, dude.

01:23:46.000 What got you into the sport?

01:23:47.000 Like, how old were you when you first started martial arts training, period?

01:23:50.000 17.

01:23:51.000 17.

01:23:52.000 That's late.

01:23:53.000 If you think about it, right?

01:23:53.000 Yeah.

01:23:55.000 Well, I mean, if you want to call it wrestling, I wrestled for two years when I was 10 and 11 for a private club.

01:23:59.000 Did like traveling, Texas a lot, Louisiana, small club meets.

01:24:04.000 But other than that, no combat sports, no martial art experience.

01:24:07.000 How'd you get into it?

01:24:08.000 Boxing when I was 17, I wanted to box.

01:24:10.000 Always wanted to box.

01:24:11.000 Started going to a boxing gym.

01:24:13.000 Met some MMA guys there.

01:24:15.000 Didn't know they had MMA where I was from.

01:24:17.000 Then went to the MMA gym and never went back to the boxing gym.

01:24:20.000 So what year are we talking?

01:24:22.000 2006, maybe?

01:24:23.000 Oh, okay.

01:24:23.000 So this was right when the UFC first started.

01:24:26.000 This is like, I remember when Stefan and Forrest did the big thing.

01:24:30.000 This was like beginning around the time I was training.

01:24:33.000 Boxing and mixed martial arts.

01:24:35.000 So that wave, like, I just never stopped.

01:24:37.000 Wow.

01:24:38.000 Yeah, man.

01:24:39.000 What was it?

01:24:41.000 The World Combat, like Chris Horodecki was over there.

01:24:46.000 Ben Rotho was over there.

01:24:47.000 Remember, what was that called?

01:24:49.000 The team organization.

01:24:50.000 That was big at the time.

01:24:51.000 Right.

01:24:51.000 IFL.

01:24:52.000 IFL.

01:24:53.000 Yeah.

01:24:54.000 Everybody had teams and stuff.

01:24:55.000 That was weird.

01:24:56.000 That was real big around that time.

01:24:58.000 Yeah, I didn't know.

01:24:59.000 That's where Dan Miller, Jim's brother, landed the grossest guillotine I've ever seen in my life.

01:25:06.000 Have you ever seen this one?

01:25:07.000 I think so.

01:25:07.000 Oh, my God.

01:25:08.000 It's the worst guillotine of all time.

01:25:10.000 He gets this guy in a guillotine, traps his head in his chest, and bends his chest so his head is connected to his own chest sideways.

01:25:19.000 So like this.

01:25:20.000 His head went all the way down and touched his chest.

01:25:23.000 I don't even know how he stayed alive.

01:25:24.000 Yeah.

01:25:25.000 Watch this.

01:25:26.000 Watch this guillotine.

01:25:27.000 Check this out.

01:25:27.000 There it is.

01:25:28.000 No, watch this guillotine.

01:25:30.000 Look at that.

01:25:31.000 Jesus.

01:25:31.000 Bro.

01:25:32.000 Bro, how's that guy alive?

01:25:34.000 Look at that.

01:25:35.000 How is he alive?

01:25:36.000 Have you ever seen that before?

01:25:38.000 Ever?

01:25:39.000 Like, that's crazy.

01:25:41.000 That is the craziest guillotine I've ever seen in my life.

01:25:44.000 That's so crazy.

01:25:45.000 Looks like his neck's broken, bro.

01:25:47.000 How's he alive?

01:25:48.000 Yeah.

01:25:49.000 Like, first of all, why did it take so long for the referee to stop?

01:25:51.000 Who's the referee?

01:25:52.000 Steve Mazzigati.

01:25:56.000 I don't know who it is, but you could have probably stopped that a couple of seconds earlier.

01:26:00.000 But I mean, it's just hard to imagine that a neck can go in that direction.

01:26:05.000 Like, it's so that doesn't show it.

01:26:08.000 The other angle that you showed is really what showed it.

01:26:10.000 Yeah.

01:26:11.000 The other angle where you see it from the side, where you see his head.

01:26:14.000 Like, when he cinches it up here, that is crazy.

01:26:20.000 That you're not supposed to bend like that.

01:26:22.000 You know, your ear is never supposed to touch your chest.

01:26:24.000 No.

01:26:25.000 I don't know how it does.

01:26:26.000 I don't know.

01:26:27.000 It just seems like everything would break.

01:26:29.000 It seems like you would never walk again.

01:26:31.000 He's not, Dan's not fighting anymore, aren't he?

01:26:33.000 Jim's still fighting.

01:26:33.000 No.

01:26:34.000 Jim's still rolling, man.

01:26:35.000 Jim's still fighting.

01:26:36.000 Still rolling.

01:26:37.000 It's crazy.

01:26:37.000 Most fights in UFC history.

01:26:39.000 And still fine.

01:26:40.000 No surgeries?

01:26:41.000 No, nothing.

01:26:42.000 Yeah.

01:26:42.000 Still durable.

01:26:43.000 Did get beat up.

01:26:44.000 Was his last fight, Bobby Green?

01:26:46.000 That was the last time I think I saw him fight.

01:26:47.000 I don't know if that was his last fight, but he definitely got beat up.

01:26:49.000 That was the one.

01:26:50.000 He's definitely lost a step.

01:26:51.000 I mean, he's 40 years old.

01:26:53.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:26:53.000 But man, dude still loves it.

01:26:55.000 Still loves it.

01:26:56.000 Respect to him, dude.

01:26:57.000 I mean, he sent me a cookbook.

01:26:57.000 Yeah.

01:27:00.000 He came out a cookbook.

01:27:01.000 He's a big cook and hunter and stuff.

01:27:03.000 He said he had a cookbook and a spatula.

01:27:06.000 Oh, that's hilarious.

01:27:07.000 Captain Redbeard or Jimmy Redbeard on the spatula.

01:27:09.000 It's like engraved into it.

01:27:11.000 Fuck yeah.

01:27:11.000 He's quite a character.

01:27:12.000 Yeah, I like him.

01:27:13.000 I like him, man.

01:27:14.000 He's a very fun dude.

01:27:14.000 I like him a lot too.

01:27:15.000 And also, complete wits about him.

01:27:18.000 Doesn't have any problems mentally.

01:27:21.000 Seems like a hard worker.

01:27:22.000 He's always on his farm doing stuff.

01:27:23.000 Like, you would never think he was a fighter if you didn't know.

01:27:26.000 I know, right?

01:27:27.000 Yeah.

01:27:27.000 Yeah, he's a fascinating character.

01:27:30.000 Well, the thing about this sport is that exceptional humans are exceptional at fighting.

01:27:36.000 Like to be an exceptional fighter, you have to be an exceptional person.

01:27:40.000 There's really no way around it.

01:27:42.000 There's like, it's too hard to do.

01:27:44.000 You have to be a very unique kind of human being that can get through those camps, that can perform under the big lights, that can figure out how to keep getting better and evolve.

01:27:53.000 For sure.

01:27:54.000 And that type of stuff is like the last time I was on a show, I was talking about it.

01:27:57.000 It's like a gift and a curse, man.

01:27:58.000 It's like you have to be all in at something.

01:28:00.000 Those kind of people who are built like that, whether it's fighting or drinking or whether it's good or bad, you're going all in.

01:28:08.000 It's dangerous.

01:28:09.000 That's the problem.

01:28:09.000 Yeah.

01:28:10.000 The problem is like what you see with Connor, when they don't have the fighting, then they go all in with the other things.

01:28:15.000 Yeah.

01:28:16.000 Right.

01:28:16.000 Yeah.

01:28:17.000 Fighting was always, for me, always pulled everything together.

01:28:19.000 You know, that's why like retiring is scary, man.

01:28:22.000 Days are long.

01:28:23.000 I have a lot of time.

01:28:24.000 I don't have to get ready for a fight.

01:28:26.000 You're still a young man, too.

01:28:26.000 I don't, you know.

01:28:28.000 You still have a whole lot of life ahead of you.

01:28:30.000 37, man.

01:28:31.000 Yeah, so it makes you think, like, what do I do now?

01:28:33.000 What do I do with my future?

01:28:34.000 What do I do?

01:28:35.000 What do you want to do?

01:28:36.000 Dude, I kind of got like for a week or so, I wouldn't say depressed, but I kind of got into like a funk.

01:28:40.000 Like, what the hell am I going to do with my life?

01:28:42.000 Every day I would wake up for the last 20 years.

01:28:44.000 How can I be a better fighter?

01:28:46.000 How can I, what's new in fitness?

01:28:47.000 How can I push myself?

01:28:48.000 I want to be the champion.

01:28:49.000 And then, boom, you lay the gloves down and you wake up and you're a fucking civilian.

01:28:53.000 Like, it feels crazy.

01:28:56.000 You know, it's like I'm relearning who I am.

01:28:59.000 Like, I always knew fighting was just something I did.

01:29:01.000 It wasn't who I was.

01:29:02.000 But after 20 years of doing it, even though you know that and you think that, like, it, fuck, I don't know who I am without fighting.

01:29:09.000 How long did it take you?

01:29:10.000 I'm a father.

01:29:11.000 I'm a lot of things.

01:29:11.000 I'm a husband.

01:29:12.000 But like, fighting was a cloud in my mind that never went away for 20 years.

01:29:18.000 And now I wake up and it's gone.

01:29:18.000 Right.

01:29:20.000 Like, what do I do?

01:29:22.000 I'm still trying to find out, Joe.

01:29:23.000 I don't know.

01:29:24.000 Did you still get nervous when you would go to events?

01:29:26.000 You know, that feeling that you get like you competed?

01:29:28.000 You couldn't be competing.

01:29:29.000 No, no, no.

01:29:30.000 Yeah, dude.

01:29:30.000 When you go to other events for other people.

01:29:32.000 Just feeling like you might have to compete.

01:29:32.000 Yeah.

01:29:34.000 Dude, my hands are sweaty.

01:29:35.000 Yeah.

01:29:36.000 That's weird, right?

01:29:36.000 Yeah.

01:29:37.000 For sure.

01:29:38.000 I mean, obviously, it just happened to me last couple weeks when Max fought Charles.

01:29:43.000 I had armpit stains.

01:29:43.000 I was nervous.

01:29:44.000 My hands were sweating.

01:29:45.000 I'm like, dude, I hope those people don't see this.

01:29:48.000 Right, because you feel like you're still there.

01:29:50.000 You're connected to both these guys for some reason.

01:29:52.000 Well, you are forever.

01:29:53.000 Yeah.

01:29:53.000 That's the thing.

01:29:54.000 That's what's so interesting about watching old fighters, even old boxers when they go to like Hall of Fame ceremonies and they've seen each other and hugging.

01:30:01.000 Like those guys are connected in time forever.

01:30:04.000 Yeah, Max came up to the desk and I was like, we spent an hour of our lives fighting each other as hard as we could.

01:30:12.000 And he didn't even know.

01:30:13.000 He's like, no, wait, an hour?

01:30:14.000 I'm like, yeah, dude.

01:30:14.000 We went to two decisions, two five-round decisions, and we fought the first fight was one or two rounds.

01:30:19.000 So it's an hour a fight.

01:30:21.000 Yeah.

01:30:22.000 We spent an hour beating each other up.

01:30:24.000 That is crazy when you think about it.

01:30:26.000 An hour is a long time.

01:30:28.000 An hour is a long time to fight another man.

01:30:30.000 Especially burying your soul in front of the world.

01:30:33.000 It's not a regular hour.

01:30:34.000 Just being out at the beach.

01:30:36.000 It's the biggest hour.

01:30:38.000 And it's an hour you're prepared for for months each time.

01:30:41.000 But because of that, like you were saying with the boxers, like we know, we have an unwritten thing we know about each other.

01:30:47.000 Something we never spoke about, but we know each other better than a lot of people do.

01:30:51.000 Yeah, you know when a person breaks and who doesn't break.

01:30:54.000 Max doesn't break.

01:30:55.000 He doesn't break.

01:30:56.000 I mean, you see it in that fight.

01:30:58.000 I mean, how does he go through that whole round and not get submitted dry with Oliver on his back and got close a few times?

01:31:06.000 Like crushing his face.

01:31:09.000 Like that old Shinyayoki where you go the angle and you can choke through the jaw.

01:31:13.000 Oh, yeah, man.

01:31:14.000 Guys go to sleep.

01:31:15.000 Neck crank, it'll choke you to sleep too.

01:31:17.000 Well, even just a rear naked across your face.

01:31:19.000 I've seen guys go to sleep.

01:31:20.000 Yeah.

01:31:21.000 They just go to sleep.

01:31:22.000 You try not to tap and you just wake up and you're like, how did he choke me out over my face?

01:31:27.000 Because it's like if you get enough torque and crank, it'll cut off the vein or whatever.

01:31:33.000 You know, it'll put you out.

01:31:34.000 It's enough, which is nuts.

01:31:36.000 And it's so much pain on the jaw, too.

01:31:38.000 Oh, it's horrible.

01:31:39.000 Choking, getting lack of oxygen to the brain is one thing.

01:31:42.000 Like the jaw binding up against the bones.

01:31:44.000 Like, you know, that sharp pain you get when somebody's face cranking you in your jaw.

01:31:48.000 Yeah, it feels like it's going to dislocate.

01:31:48.000 It feels hell.

01:31:50.000 Yeah, well, that was the thing with Khabib and Connor, where he did that torque, that torque crank where he got his neck and he cinched it up with the forearm behind the neck and pulls back like this.

01:32:01.000 That is hell.

01:32:02.000 And those guys squeeze is different, man.

01:32:04.000 Those guys squeeze is different.

01:32:06.000 Well, there's something about lifelong grapplers.

01:32:09.000 There's like a density to them that's just different.

01:32:12.000 The density, the strength, and just like the knowing of where to put the pressure and what angle to turn your hips to make a big difference.

01:32:21.000 You know, people outside don't even see it, but it's so, so crucial in the moment when somebody's on your back and they just turn a little bit toward the elbow, you know, rather than just squeeze straight on.

01:32:31.000 Small things like that or, you know, what win fights.

01:32:34.000 I'll tell you the fight that I'm really looking forward to, really looking forward to, because I don't know what's going to happen is Hamzat versus Strickland.

01:32:43.000 I'm very interested in that fight.

01:32:45.000 Strickland is a fucking nightmare standing up.

01:32:48.000 For sure.

01:32:49.000 He's a nightmare.

01:32:50.000 What he did at Fluffy Hernandez, I was like, holy shit, man.

01:32:50.000 For sure.

01:32:54.000 The body shot, the finish.

01:32:55.000 But he made Fluffy fight.

01:32:57.000 You know, he fights at a slower pace.

01:32:59.000 He has his own pace in there, and he kind of forces the other guy to fight.

01:33:02.000 His opponent has to fight this pace with him.

01:33:04.000 I think the best chance is to blitz him, do unorthodox things, because he wants to jab, circle, throw a kick, jab, circle.

01:33:12.000 He keeps a very slow pace.

01:33:13.000 He's not sprinting or trying to blast you out of there.

01:33:15.000 He just chips away high guard.

01:33:18.000 Good show.

01:33:19.000 Yeah, very good show.

01:33:20.000 His defense is extraordinary.

01:33:23.000 He, you know, one of the things he was telling me is like, I spar more than anybody, and I get hit less than anybody.

01:33:28.000 And that is true.

01:33:29.000 Like, if you think about how much that guy spars, it's a giant part of his training.

01:33:33.000 Look at James Toney.

01:33:34.000 He was hard to hit and all he did was spar.

01:33:36.000 Yeah.

01:33:36.000 You know?

01:33:37.000 Perfect example.

01:33:37.000 Right.

01:33:38.000 There's something taught in that, in those homes.

01:33:40.000 Yeah.

01:33:40.000 100%.

01:33:41.000 Understanding of distance, timing, pattern recognition.

01:33:44.000 You're constantly in there, moving around.

01:33:47.000 It's like, and then there's also the cardio that comes from sparring.

01:33:51.000 It's different.

01:33:52.000 Like, because his cardio is almost entirely based on sparring.

01:33:52.000 Yeah.

01:33:57.000 And man, that motherfucker doesn't get tired in there.

01:34:00.000 And the Fluffy fight was like, I thought Fluffy was going to be a problem.

01:34:04.000 I'm like, Fluffy's really good, man.

01:34:06.000 You think he submitted Adolfo Vieira?

01:34:08.000 He's got all this fucking crazy cardio.

01:34:10.000 He puts a pace on guys.

01:34:12.000 And Strickland made it look like he just did not belong in there.

01:34:16.000 He's so heavy on that front foot, though.

01:34:17.000 I can't believe guys aren't smashing that calf, man.

01:34:20.000 Well, he's hard to hit, man.

01:34:20.000 I know.

01:34:22.000 And he also knows how to do that fucking hacky sack thing where, you know, like you're bending your knee upwards.

01:34:30.000 To check it?

01:34:30.000 You know what I mean?

01:34:31.000 Well, you don't even check it.

01:34:31.000 Yeah.

01:34:32.000 You just kind of like relax your leg and lift it up.

01:34:35.000 You know who showed me that?

01:34:37.000 Is Alex Pereira?

01:34:38.000 He's like, instead of checking it, it's like, if you check it, it still hurts you.

01:34:42.000 For sure.

01:34:43.000 But he just lifts his leg up.

01:34:44.000 He just goes heel to knee on the opposite side.

01:34:48.000 And so like a hacky sack man.

01:34:49.000 I've seen guys take thigh leg kicks like that.

01:34:49.000 Right, right.

01:34:52.000 Yeah.

01:34:53.000 Kind of let it swing a little.

01:34:54.000 But he does it with the calf.

01:34:55.000 So it's like he sees it coming.

01:34:57.000 Instead of doing that, stepping out and checking it, he just like, look at this.

01:35:01.000 See that?

01:35:02.000 Yeah, that's it.

01:35:04.000 Well, that, I think, in this instance, I think that was probably the, I don't know if that was the first fight of this hecken fight, but Izzy's calf was already done.

01:35:14.000 He told me after that fight, he goes, when he got stopped in the first fight, he goes, dude, I wasn't even that hurt.

01:35:14.000 He was really happy.

01:35:19.000 It wasn't that.

01:35:20.000 He goes, I couldn't move.

01:35:21.000 He goes, my calf was curved.

01:35:23.000 It doesn't go away.

01:35:26.000 Yeah, that one's crazy.

01:35:27.000 That's hard to do, bro.

01:35:28.000 That's kind of silly.

01:35:29.000 Soccer movie.

01:35:30.000 That's hard to do.

01:35:30.000 That's kind of silly.

01:35:31.000 I don't think he really does that.

01:35:32.000 Block it with the bottom of your feet.

01:35:33.000 He could, though.

01:35:34.000 I'm very interested in that fight, too.

01:35:36.000 Him versus Cyril Gon.

01:35:38.000 That's very interesting.

01:35:39.000 For sure.

01:35:40.000 For sure.

01:35:40.000 And I know the power is going to translate over to heavyweight.

01:35:43.000 That's not going to be 100%.

01:35:44.000 He'll be able to flatline heavyweights.

01:35:45.000 100%, especially with zero weight cut.

01:35:48.000 Yeah.

01:35:48.000 He's probably 230, 240 walking around.

01:35:50.000 230 something, maybe.

01:35:51.000 He's 240.

01:35:52.000 Yeah, dude, come on.

01:35:53.000 He's 240 walking around.

01:35:54.000 That's a legit heavyweight.

01:35:55.000 He's a legitimate.

01:35:57.000 Fucking guy, what?

01:35:58.000 85.

01:35:58.000 So is Cyril, man.

01:36:00.000 Cyril's good.

01:36:01.000 An athlete heavyweight.

01:36:02.000 Not just a big guy fighting at heavyweight.

01:36:03.000 He's a legit heavyweight.

01:36:05.000 It is a crime in the sport that that fight with Aspinall got stopped the way it did, that he eye-poked him.

01:36:11.000 It's a crime.

01:36:12.000 Yeah.

01:36:13.000 Because that fight was playing out in a very interesting direction because Aspinall was having a really hard time touching that.

01:36:19.000 He was bleeding.

01:36:20.000 He was getting touched up.

01:36:20.000 He was dusted up.

01:36:21.000 He was getting touched up a lot.

01:36:23.000 Cyril's jab is legit.

01:36:25.000 And that's what I was most excited for.

01:36:26.000 I wanted to see Tom have to come back, lose around, and come up.

01:36:29.000 I've never seen him.

01:36:31.000 Obviously, I've seen him fight, but I've never seen him in a real fight where you have to fight your way back into it.

01:36:35.000 How many times has he seen?

01:36:35.000 Has he even been in the second round?

01:36:37.000 Twice, maybe?

01:36:38.000 Something crazy like that.

01:36:39.000 Nuts.

01:36:40.000 And that's why the fan base kind of blew me away.

01:36:42.000 I was like, these guys are so high on Aspinall right now.

01:36:44.000 Like for a few months, everybody was talking about Aspinall, how good he is.

01:36:48.000 Not that he's not.

01:36:48.000 I've never seen it.

01:36:49.000 He might, I mean, he has to be good to be where he's at.

01:36:52.000 Yeah.

01:36:53.000 But I haven't seen it.

01:36:54.000 Well, my thought was the real problem that Aspinall is going to present is in the grappling.

01:36:59.000 He's a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt.

01:37:00.000 He's a big fucker.

01:37:02.000 He's got a power double.

01:37:02.000 He's fast.

01:37:04.000 I mean, he explodes.

01:37:05.000 But when he's standing there and trying to stand with Cyril Gon, this is the first time that he was ever in front of a guy who was agile and quick and very technical.

01:37:16.000 Cyril Gon was doing a lot of sneaky shit.

01:37:18.000 One thing he does is he keeps his hand low and they pops that jab out.

01:37:21.000 So you don't know where it's coming from.

01:37:23.000 He does a lot of weird shit with his front leg, too.

01:37:23.000 Up jab.

01:37:26.000 He's pretty quick for his size.

01:37:27.000 Real quick.

01:37:28.000 Real quick.

01:37:29.000 Good mobility, good hips.

01:37:30.000 Yeah, man.

01:37:31.000 Cyril's a great athlete.

01:37:33.000 Like, it's not just that.

01:37:34.000 I've seen him dunk basketballs and shit.

01:37:36.000 Like, he can move.

01:37:37.000 But it's just the fluidity of his striking is so efficient.

01:37:41.000 Like, that's his world.

01:37:43.000 If you just want to strike with him.

01:37:44.000 Yeah.

01:37:45.000 I mean, John Jones is so smart.

01:37:46.000 John's like, fuck all this.

01:37:48.000 Guillotine.

01:37:49.000 Even Francis.

01:37:50.000 Francis, well, he had a broken out knee in that fight.

01:37:54.000 But Francis just took him down every round and beat him up.

01:37:57.000 Yeah, man.

01:37:58.000 But that's a different Cyril.

01:37:59.000 That's a Cyril that wasn't concentrating enough on his grappling and probably never thought that Francis was going to employ that tactic.

01:38:06.000 And then really worked with a lot of wrestlers and tried to evolve his game.

01:38:06.000 Right.

01:38:11.000 And Francis is on that Nate J card as well, right?

01:38:16.000 He's fighting Philip Linz.

01:38:16.000 Right.

01:38:18.000 As an A to T guy.

01:38:19.000 Yeah.

01:38:20.000 How good is he?

01:38:21.000 I've never really watched him train that much.

01:38:23.000 I know he made it to the UFC for a stint.

01:38:25.000 Then he maybe went PFL.

01:38:27.000 I'm not sure how good he is.

01:38:28.000 Yeah.

01:38:29.000 I've seen him at the gym, but I've never watched him train.

01:38:31.000 It's fortunate that there's not another big name for him to fight.

01:38:34.000 Like, I was hoping they could get a big name.

01:38:37.000 Bob Sapp.

01:38:40.000 I mean, who would be the big name?

01:38:41.000 Like, who's at heavyweight?

01:38:43.000 Yeah, at heavyweight that's still talented.

01:38:47.000 No one.

01:38:48.000 Yeah.

01:38:48.000 Heavyweight is the most shallow division in the sport.

01:38:51.000 Period.

01:38:52.000 Kane's out of jail.

01:38:52.000 Get him in shape.

01:38:54.000 Well, Kane's got crazy back surgeries and knee surgery and shoulder surgery.

01:38:58.000 Jane Kane was like too tough for his own body.

01:39:00.000 And all the years of wrestling, man?

01:39:02.000 Wear and tear.

01:39:03.000 Wear and tear.

01:39:04.000 Well, also, just never giving his body a break, just constantly grinding and pushing.

01:39:09.000 And that's why he was so good.

01:39:11.000 I think in his prime, the best.

01:39:12.000 I think he was the best.

01:39:13.000 Well, he was certainly in the argument.

01:39:15.000 In my mind, it's him and Fedor.

01:39:17.000 But honorable mention always I give to Fabricio Verdum.

01:39:21.000 Because Fabrizio Verdum, people want to think about losses.

01:39:21.000 Yeah.

01:39:24.000 Think about peak performances.

01:39:26.000 Fabricio Verdum tapped everybody.

01:39:29.000 He tapped all the legends.

01:39:30.000 Great trying.

01:39:31.000 He tapped Minotaro, he tapped Fedor, and he tapped Kane.

01:39:35.000 Like, just that.

01:39:36.000 Just that alone.

01:39:38.000 He tapped all the legends.

01:39:39.000 I don't know why he's named it.

01:39:40.000 Like when I was thinking about heavyweights, why his name doesn't come in?

01:39:42.000 I just want to give him respect.

01:39:44.000 I always put it out there because the same way I do with BJ Penn, because people forget, they only want to think about BJ Penn maybe when he fought Frankie Edgar or when he fought Yair Rodriguez.

01:39:54.000 Go back to BJ Penn when he fought Sean Shirk.

01:39:57.000 Go back to BJ Penn when he fought Diego Sanchez.

01:39:59.000 That BJ Penn was a motherfucker.

01:40:02.000 Joe Stevenson.

01:40:03.000 Yes, Joe Daddy Stevenson.

01:40:04.000 You got to think about the guys when they're in their prime, when they're redlining for X amount of years at peak performance.

01:40:14.000 When you're talking about like all-time greats, I get it.

01:40:18.000 All-time greats, you got to think about guys like John Jones and Khabib.

01:40:21.000 He never lost.

01:40:22.000 They stayed flawless their entire career.

01:40:24.000 You're right.

01:40:25.000 But for peak performance, when they were at their best, how good were they?

01:40:31.000 I put prime time BJ Penn at 155 against almost anybody.

01:40:35.000 Yeah, you're right, man.

01:40:36.000 Bro, he was so good, and his jiu-jitsu was so good.

01:40:39.000 And he could knock you out, and he was an animal.

01:40:42.000 And when he was training with Marv Marinovich, when he went over there and was like really learning how to get in insane shape, and he would come there with carrying rocks underwater and stuff.

01:40:51.000 All that shit.

01:40:52.000 I think the carrying rocks was him.

01:40:54.000 Marinovich had him doing a lot of like crazy plyometric stuff.

01:40:57.000 And the Marinovich's strategy was: you already know how to fight.

01:41:01.000 Fuck all this fighting.

01:41:03.000 You know how to fight.

01:41:04.000 What we're going to do is just give you the most insane gas tank.

01:41:07.000 So your fight training is like secondary.

01:41:10.000 What's really important is just having the most spectacular gas tank so you never get tired.

01:41:16.000 But he hated those camps, man.

01:41:18.000 He hated it.

01:41:19.000 And he only did it.

01:41:19.000 Even in the peak of his shape, he was still a little soft.

01:41:22.000 He was never shredded.

01:41:23.000 He was pretty shredded when he fought Joe Stevenson.

01:41:25.000 Yeah, he had a six-pack.

01:41:27.000 I mean, it was different.

01:41:27.000 He looked good.

01:41:29.000 But at 55, it was different.

01:41:30.000 And everybody's body type's different.

01:41:32.000 Well, at 70, he was never really a 170.

01:41:34.000 You know, he was never.

01:41:35.000 I mean, he was much smaller than you.

01:41:37.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:41:38.000 He was never really a 170.

01:41:39.000 He was just so tough that he went up to 170 and beat a primetime Matt Hughes.

01:41:44.000 Yeah.

01:41:44.000 He stuck around longer than he should have.

01:41:46.000 He definitely did.

01:41:47.000 And he definitely fought without training well sometimes.

01:41:47.000 He did.

01:41:51.000 And that's the thing people remember.

01:41:53.000 Yes, I hate that, though.

01:41:54.000 They remember that one fight we fought on his tippy toes.

01:41:56.000 Yep.

01:41:56.000 Remember that fight?

01:41:57.000 Crazy.

01:41:57.000 Yep.

01:41:58.000 Weird shit.

01:41:59.000 But you got to think about him in his prime.

01:42:02.000 That's what I always say.

01:42:03.000 Don't look at it.

01:42:04.000 Like Fabricio Verdum.

01:42:05.000 Don't look at all the fights.

01:42:07.000 Look at the fights when he was in his prime.

01:42:09.000 When he was putting it all together.

01:42:10.000 Fabricio was a nightmare.

01:42:12.000 Like when they hit their stride.

01:42:12.000 He was a nightmare.

01:42:14.000 That's what I was scared about staying around fighting too long.

01:42:17.000 Like, I retired at 36.

01:42:18.000 I'm like.

01:42:19.000 Perfect.

01:42:20.000 How much more athletic am I going to get?

01:42:22.000 How much faster am I going to get?

01:42:23.000 How much, you know, power is the last thing to go, but durability, speed, reaction time, everything that I need.

01:42:29.000 Like, and if I'm not right in line for a title shot or knocking on the door of it, like, what am I doing?

01:42:34.000 Right.

01:42:34.000 I'm fighting just to fight for HR.

01:42:36.000 Isn't that crazy?

01:42:37.000 That's when I had to look myself in the mirror, you know, like, okay, this is it.

01:42:42.000 I'm going to.

01:42:43.000 You did the right thing.

01:42:44.000 Be healthy.

01:42:45.000 Leave my faculties for the most part.

01:42:47.000 The age that you retired was the age that Yoel Romero entered into the UFC.

01:42:50.000 Yeah.

01:42:53.000 Yeah.

01:42:54.000 Isn't that nuts?

01:42:55.000 It really is crazy if you think about it because that's really what happened.

01:42:55.000 Yeah.

01:42:58.000 And there's a few outliers out there in the sport.

01:43:00.000 Like in boxing, Usik is the great outlier.

01:43:02.000 Terrence Crawford is another great outlier.

01:43:05.000 Dude, what about Usuk and Rico?

01:43:07.000 Crazy.

01:43:08.000 Rico's a super nice guy.

01:43:10.000 Super nice guy.

01:43:10.000 I love Rico, man.

01:43:11.000 He's a nice guy, but without leg kicks, the fact that he's going to just box and he's going to box maybe the best technical heavyweight that's ever lived.

01:43:21.000 I don't know, man.

01:43:23.000 I bet $5,000 on Fury.

01:43:23.000 I learned my lesson, dude.

01:43:25.000 Did you?

01:43:26.000 Yeah.

01:43:27.000 The second fight?

01:43:28.000 Interesting.

01:43:28.000 Yeah.

01:43:29.000 If anybody can beat him, it's Tyson Fury.

01:43:31.000 If anybody can beat Usik, it's Tyson Fury.

01:43:34.000 Because Tyson Fury was beating him in the first fight.

01:43:37.000 He just got clipped.

01:43:38.000 He got clipped in the, I think it was the ninth.

01:43:40.000 He got really badly hurt.

01:43:42.000 I don't remember what round it was, but he got really badly hurt and dropped.

01:43:45.000 But Uzik is just so slick.

01:43:48.000 Yeah, man.

01:43:49.000 His footwork, his movement.

01:43:50.000 And the fact that he's essentially a blown-up cruiserweight and he's beaten all these giant heavyweights like Du Bois.

01:43:56.000 Like Daniel Du Bois is terrifying.

01:43:58.000 What he did to Joshua?

01:44:00.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:44:00.000 Just charged forward and just put fucking leather on his face.

01:44:05.000 Yeah.

01:44:05.000 Rico's a real heavyweight, but he's not a pure boxer.

01:44:09.000 No.

01:44:09.000 I mean, he can hit hard.

01:44:11.000 I mean, there's that.

01:44:12.000 But he's such a great kicker.

01:44:13.000 You're taking a weapon away.

01:44:14.000 It's interesting.

01:44:15.000 It's a spectacle.

01:44:16.000 I'm watching for sure, but I just.

01:44:18.000 I'm sure he's boxed with a lot of like really elite boxers in the gym.

01:44:22.000 I mean, but over the years, for sure, yeah.

01:44:26.000 The payday is probably bananas.

01:44:27.000 I'm sure.

01:44:27.000 And they're fighting in Giza.

01:44:29.000 In front of the pyramids?

01:44:30.000 Nuts.

01:44:31.000 Who's putting this together?

01:44:31.000 Crazy.

01:44:32.000 Who put that together?

01:44:33.000 I have no idea.

01:44:35.000 Yeah, aliens.

01:44:36.000 That's where they're going to land.

01:44:38.000 Do they need to do a Coliseum fight, MMA or boxing, where they set it up either in the Coliseum or right in front?

01:44:44.000 You know, that would be crazy.

01:44:45.000 Well, they were talking about doing that with Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg.

01:44:50.000 They were talking about the fighter.

01:44:52.000 A real fight.

01:44:53.000 I know, that's so crazy.

01:44:54.000 Dude, that would be so crazy to have those guys be the first fight in the first place.

01:44:58.000 Do that one at Meta headquarters or something.

01:45:00.000 Don't do that at the Coliseum.

01:45:01.000 Don't disrespect the Coliseum.

01:45:05.000 I know.

01:45:05.000 No, no.

01:45:06.000 That's silly.

01:45:07.000 So who's live at the Pyramids of Giza?

01:45:10.000 WBC World Heavyweight Championship, DeZone.

01:45:13.000 But I wonder who the promoter is.

01:45:17.000 WBC.

01:45:18.000 I don't.

01:45:19.000 Is that their faces?

01:45:20.000 That's so ridiculous.

01:45:21.000 Look at their fucking with their circular golden gloves on.

01:45:26.000 Glory in Giza.

01:45:28.000 It's going to be interesting, man.

01:45:29.000 I'm excited about it.

01:45:30.000 I wonder who's going to buy that.

01:45:33.000 How much is that going to cost?

01:45:34.000 I'm going to buy it.

01:45:34.000 But I mean, how many people are going to buy that?

01:45:38.000 you know what i mean like i'm gonna buy it because it's i love rico I've had Rico on the show.

01:45:43.000 I mean, I think he's the greatest heavyweight kickboxer of all time.

01:45:45.000 For sure.

01:45:46.000 I feel like the way combat sports has kind of intertwined all different stuff, boxing, MMA, how big mixed martial arts is now, you're going to get a lot of crossover.

01:45:54.000 Before you'd get a lot of hardcore boxing fans buying this pay-per-view, but now you're kind of going to get a little bit of everything.

01:46:00.000 Kickboxing, MMA, boxing fans.

01:46:02.000 Glory has such a small audience, unfortunately.

01:46:06.000 And this is the argument that Dana has said to me about kickboxing in America that they tried with Glory.

01:46:13.000 I just don't think they got the right promotion.

01:46:16.000 I think if the UFC was behind it.

01:46:17.000 I mean, it's nonstop action.

01:46:18.000 It's highlights the whole time.

01:46:19.000 Why would you say?

01:46:21.000 I feel like if the UFC got behind kickboxing in America, it could be gigantic, especially kickboxing with MMA gloves.

01:46:28.000 That Gazaliev guy was fighting in the octagon.

01:46:31.000 You know how fucking gigantic that would be?

01:46:34.000 Or Yuki Yoza, there's another guy, Masata Nori.

01:46:39.000 There's a bunch of guys.

01:46:41.000 There's a bunch of guys that are really elite that are fighting.

01:46:45.000 Yeah.

01:46:46.000 A bunch, man.

01:46:47.000 A lot.

01:46:51.000 Yeah, Masaki Nori.

01:46:54.000 Usik open to fighting John Jones in crossover MMA fight.

01:46:58.000 What?

01:46:59.000 Wait.

01:47:00.000 Okay, now you got me interested.

01:47:02.000 Dude.

01:47:03.000 If the UFC comes up with the cheddar.

01:47:06.000 You better start wrestling.

01:47:07.000 I'm going to chill in now.

01:47:08.000 Yeah, you better start wrestling.

01:47:09.000 Wrestling right now.

01:47:10.000 Is that real?

01:47:11.000 Did he say that?

01:47:13.000 Rico is first.

01:47:14.000 Second is whoever wins between Wardley and Dubois.

01:47:17.000 And the third fight is my Fred Greedy Belly Tyson Fury.

01:47:21.000 So he's not.

01:47:22.000 A rematch with Dubois is a tough sell.

01:47:24.000 He just starched him.

01:47:25.000 The Tyson Fury fight is the big fight.

01:47:29.000 Because Tyson Fury is the only guy that, in my eyes, makes sense.

01:47:34.000 It says a fight with Jake Paul and MMA at this stage is not being considered, but we're always open to creative and interesting collaborations in the future.

01:47:40.000 If we were talking about crossover fights, a very interesting matchup could be against John Jones in the United States.

01:47:46.000 Whoa.

01:47:47.000 I don't know what John's going to do, man, with all the stuff going on with the UFC.

01:47:50.000 He might be done.

01:47:51.000 Who knows?

01:47:52.000 He doesn't want to be done.

01:47:54.000 I know he got stem cells on his hip.

01:47:57.000 I know because I helped him get it.

01:47:58.000 He got it over at, he's talked about it.

01:48:01.000 I wouldn't have talked about it, but he talked about it.

01:48:03.000 He got it at Waste Well.

01:48:05.000 And so he's feeling a lot better.

01:48:07.000 He does have arthritis in his hip.

01:48:09.000 It bothers him, but it doesn't bother him enough where he can't fight.

01:48:12.000 And, you know, he's the greatest of all time.

01:48:14.000 Period.

01:48:15.000 I did stem cells and PRP in my hip.

01:48:17.000 I didn't notice anything from that.

01:48:19.000 Well, it really depends on where you're getting the stem cells, what technology they're using.

01:48:24.000 There's a bunch of different kinds of stem cells.

01:48:26.000 Talk to Brigham about that.

01:48:26.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:48:27.000 He can explain it.

01:48:28.000 I got maybe one.

01:48:29.000 You had a labrum tear, right?

01:48:30.000 It was pretty significant.

01:48:31.000 Yeah, and I had to get the head of my femur reshaped.

01:48:33.000 Like a resurfacing.

01:48:35.000 It was kind of egg-shaped and didn't need to be rounded.

01:48:37.000 So it tore everything off the inside of my hip.

01:48:39.000 So how do they do that?

01:48:41.000 They take your leg out of socket.

01:48:44.000 They shave the top rounded, and then they micro, they put like a bunch of small holes in it to where it cracks.

01:48:50.000 And then stem cells leak out of your body to create a new surface, out of your bone.

01:48:55.000 How long did that take to recover from?

01:48:56.000 I couldn't put pressure on it for eight weeks.

01:48:59.000 yeah because it's like so you're just walking around on one leg for two months solid yeah And then once you start walking on it, how weird was it?

01:49:07.000 Very weird because I had to sleep in like a motion machine where my leg wouldn't stop moving at night.

01:49:13.000 Oh my God.

01:49:14.000 Because your hip capsule is like tricky.

01:49:16.000 If it heals up too tight, your leg won't have any range of motion at all.

01:49:19.000 So while it's healing, you need to be in perpetual motion, I guess.

01:49:23.000 That's crazy.

01:49:24.000 And every week, they would send a new code for my wife to type in the machine, and it would be a little bit different angle.

01:49:29.000 Whoa.

01:49:30.000 Yeah.

01:49:31.000 So my nightmare.

01:49:32.000 For those eight weeks, I was sleeping in this metal brace that moved my leg all night.

01:49:36.000 How did you sleep?

01:49:37.000 It was horrible because it went up to like your junk inside your leg and outside of your leg.

01:49:42.000 So it's like you had a wedgie by this machine and your legs just motion all night.

01:49:46.000 Oh my God.

01:49:47.000 It sucked, man.

01:49:48.000 That's terrifying.

01:49:50.000 I'm fine now.

01:49:50.000 But it healed up.

01:49:51.000 It healed up good.

01:49:52.000 That's crazy that it worked.

01:49:53.000 Yeah.

01:49:54.000 Wow.

01:49:55.000 Resurfacing.

01:49:56.000 Whoa.

01:49:57.000 The guy actually who did it in Vale, Colorado, invented the surgery.

01:50:01.000 GSP's had hip surgery there.

01:50:03.000 Really?

01:50:04.000 Yeah.

01:50:04.000 He invented this surgery.

01:50:06.000 And GSP had to do the same bullshit?

01:50:07.000 I don't know if he had exactly what I had, but he had surgery there on his hip.

01:50:11.000 God, that sounds like two months of no sleeping.

01:50:14.000 How'd you sleep?

01:50:15.000 Did you get used to it?

01:50:16.000 Well, the first week with pain medicine and stuff, you're on all that stuff.

01:50:20.000 It was after, like, when I stopped taking all that.

01:50:22.000 Pain medicine must have been fun.

01:50:24.000 Do, do, Triple Z, dude.

01:50:29.000 I was having dreams and getting the best sleep of my life.

01:50:32.000 Yeah, that's a time where it makes sense to take that shit.

01:50:34.000 Like, you're in a fucking crazy brace.

01:50:36.000 Let's party.

01:50:37.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:50:38.000 Watch Netflix and not give a shit about my leg.

01:50:41.000 Yeah, I'm sleeping in this machine.

01:50:42.000 Hamster wheel.

01:50:43.000 For real.

01:50:44.000 Whoever the hell's happening with my legs?

01:50:46.000 I was on one of those where I got my knee reconstructed.

01:50:48.000 You had a bunch of knee surgeries.

01:50:49.000 Yeah, but my left knee, I had a patellar tendon graft, and they put me on one of them things where it does this.

01:50:57.000 Like when I was in the hospital, that's morphine drip.

01:51:00.000 So you could press the button to get more morphine.

01:51:01.000 I was like, boink, boink, boink, boink.

01:51:03.000 Dude, it's lying there.

01:51:05.000 I had the same thing on my hip.

01:51:08.000 They put an epidural, and then they had a nerve block through my stomach.

01:51:11.000 So I was like completely paralyzed from the waist down.

01:51:14.000 But I had the button thing.

01:51:15.000 I don't think it was working anymore because I revved it up.

01:51:19.000 It was.

01:51:20.000 He red lines.

01:51:21.000 He was shooting blanks, man.

01:51:22.000 That's hilarious.

01:51:23.000 It is weird, though, to see your knee constantly moving forward, but I only had to do it like a couple of nights.

01:51:29.000 I did it for weeks.

01:51:29.000 I can't imagine.

01:51:30.000 I can't imagine.

01:51:32.000 That must have been so hard to sleep, man.

01:51:35.000 Yeah, the motion wasn't so bad because it's kind of slow.

01:51:38.000 Oh, okay.

01:51:39.000 It was the metal in my groin.

01:51:40.000 Oh, yeah.

01:51:41.000 It probably rubbed it raw and shit.

01:51:44.000 Oh, God.

01:51:46.000 Fuck, man.

01:51:46.000 Yeah, man.

01:51:47.000 But, like I said, I was on the pain medicine.

01:51:49.000 It's crazy that it all worked, though.

01:51:50.000 Yeah.

01:51:51.000 Shout out to that doctor.

01:51:52.000 Shout out to all these doctors.

01:51:54.000 I say that all the time.

01:51:55.000 Like, both my knees would be fucking completely useless if it wasn't for amazing doctors.

01:51:59.000 Right.

01:51:59.000 Shout out to these people.

01:52:00.000 I was just talking about figuring shit out.

01:52:02.000 I worked with Paul Felder at that Vegas show, and he just had a hip replacement.

01:52:06.000 Yeah, he had the real deal.

01:52:08.000 Yeah, no, he had a replacement replacement.

01:52:10.000 Why did he have to do that versus what you did?

01:52:13.000 I'm not sure exactly.

01:52:14.000 It's something to do with the spacing, I think, inside your hip, how much spacing you have.

01:52:18.000 Because my spacing was good.

01:52:20.000 I wasn't a candidate for a replacement.

01:52:21.000 Well, Paul went full nutty after he stopped fighting and started doing Iron Man's.

01:52:26.000 Yeah, dude.

01:52:26.000 was telling me he travels with a bicycle he does like still does that Cycling for five hours, like in a hotel room, like crazy.

01:52:33.000 That's not good.

01:52:34.000 That's crazy, man.

01:52:34.000 That's not healthy.

01:52:35.000 That's unhealthy.

01:52:36.000 Yeah.

01:52:36.000 Why are you doing that, Paul?

01:52:38.000 Five hours, he told me.

01:52:39.000 Well, the same kind of drive that made him a great MMA fighter made him want to be the best Iron Man dude in the world.

01:52:44.000 You need something like that, man.

01:52:46.000 Way before the surgeries a couple years ago when he first got diagnosed, I guess, with some injury.

01:52:52.000 Yeah.

01:52:53.000 So range of motion in my right hip.

01:52:54.000 Reached out to Heather and Dr. D from the UFC to help with an MRI.

01:52:58.000 Long story short, I have the hips in an 80-year-old man.

01:53:00.000 No soft tissue left, grinding bone on bone.

01:53:04.000 Ooi.

01:53:05.000 The problem is, once they put an artificial joint in you, you have that artificial joint forever.

01:53:11.000 It's never going back.

01:53:13.000 And as biologics get better and stem cells get better, they're better and better at rehealing or healing that actual tissue.

01:53:21.000 And if you could just hang in there, this is the kind of the conversation that I had with John because if you could just hang in there, they're so close.

01:53:29.000 They're injecting stuff into discs now and making the discs larger.

01:53:34.000 Right.

01:53:35.000 So like people with back problems where the doctor's like, look, we got to take some of your disc out.

01:53:39.000 Hang in there.

01:53:41.000 Hang.

01:53:41.000 And also look into other therapies, decompression.

01:53:45.000 There's a lot of different things that you could do that can create space where your disc is pushing against your nerves.

01:53:51.000 You can alleviate a lot of that.

01:53:52.000 Surgery is the absolute last.

01:53:54.000 Especially with your back.

01:53:55.000 Absolutely last.

01:53:56.000 Especially with your back.

01:53:56.000 Look, if you have a blood.

01:53:57.000 Of course, they're going to cut you up.

01:53:58.000 They'll do it anytime.

01:54:00.000 It's good business.

01:54:01.000 Cut you open.

01:54:02.000 That's the medicines, the hardware, everything.

01:54:06.000 It's a racket.

01:54:07.000 That's the last step.

01:54:08.000 That's the problem.

01:54:09.000 When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

01:54:13.000 And when doctors get paid for doing surgery, they want to do surgery because that's where they make their living.

01:54:19.000 And it's a real problem with stuff like the back because I don't know anybody that's had a back surgery and been better.

01:54:27.000 The only big one I could think of, I remember Nate Corey was a big advocate for some company.

01:54:32.000 Remember, he had a big skin.

01:54:33.000 He had an artificial spacer.

01:54:34.000 Yeah.

01:54:35.000 He had artificial discs put in his back way back in the day.

01:54:39.000 Yeah, he's the guy I think about back surgery.

01:54:40.000 But he also was in intense pain because of that.

01:54:44.000 And I think it wound up becoming a problem later on.

01:54:48.000 Like, I know guys that initially had some relief because of back surgery, and then it started getting way worse after that.

01:54:55.000 And then that's the same thing.

01:54:57.000 Always the same story.

01:54:57.000 Follow-ups.

01:54:58.000 Like, same thing with necks.

01:55:01.000 Like, you lose strength.

01:55:02.000 It's always bothering you for the rest of your life.

01:55:03.000 Like, Mike Brown has a fusion where they went in through the front.

01:55:06.000 Fusions are rough.

01:55:07.000 My buddy Alan Jobin had a neck surgery where Kayla Harrison just had one.

01:55:11.000 Like, once you have that, something Kayla have done.

01:55:14.000 I don't know exactly.

01:55:15.000 I don't think she's telling anybody.

01:55:16.000 I know that.

01:55:17.000 I'm pretty sure they went in through the front.

01:55:18.000 Right, but I don't think she's telling anybody what exactly happened because, like, Al Jamaine had a disc replaced, and he came back and beat Pyotr Jan in the rematch and looked fucking great and fought really well with that neck issue.

01:55:30.000 And you don't hear him complaining about that?

01:55:31.000 No, I mean, he said it's great.

01:55:32.000 Yeah.

01:55:33.000 I think the new artificial discs that they're putting in the necks, a lot of them, it works out really well.

01:55:40.000 I know quite a few people that have had those.

01:55:42.000 I've been fortunate, man.

01:55:42.000 I haven't had any neck.

01:55:44.000 She had a repair her knee to discs in her neck.

01:55:48.000 Right.

01:55:49.000 See, the thing is, what they usually do is just take some of the disc out, and then you have less disc.

01:55:56.000 So it's not bulging anymore, but you have less disc now.

01:56:00.000 So now you have more degenerative disc issues.

01:56:04.000 I just think there's other options.

01:56:06.000 And one of the options is decompression.

01:56:08.000 I don't know if anybody ran that by her, but I have a fucking neck harness that's attached to a chin-up bar, and I put it around my neck.

01:56:16.000 It straps under my chin, and I put my weight on it.

01:56:19.000 I just like stretch my neck out.

01:56:21.000 It works.

01:56:22.000 You know, relieving.

01:56:24.000 I hear it pop.

01:56:25.000 Pop, pop.

01:56:27.000 Replace the disc.

01:56:28.000 Oh, she had to replace.

01:56:30.000 Okay, so she got that thing that Al Jamain got done.

01:56:34.000 Yeah.

01:56:34.000 How's she going to fight that quickly?

01:56:38.000 Look at that.

01:56:39.000 Oi, yoi-yo-yoi.

01:56:41.000 I wonder what her turnaround time is.

01:56:43.000 I mean, International Fight Week, maybe her.

01:56:45.000 Her and Amanda.

01:56:46.000 What she's fighting isn't.

01:56:47.000 She was supposed to be fighting at the White House.

01:56:49.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:56:50.000 But her and Amanda were supposed to.

01:56:51.000 They decided not to do that.

01:56:53.000 Yeah.

01:56:54.000 So maybe this summer?

01:56:55.000 Maybe.

01:56:56.000 Because it's going to be, I mean, that's a big fight, her and Amanda.

01:56:58.000 It's a big fight.

01:56:59.000 But I mean, there's a possibility that you do something like that and you're never the same again.

01:57:04.000 Oh, the surgery, yeah.

01:57:04.000 So she might not have.

01:57:05.000 Yeah.

01:57:05.000 It's like you're, whenever you're dealing with your spine, it's very tricky.

01:57:10.000 Yeah.

01:57:11.000 You know, it's just one of those things.

01:57:12.000 It's like, shoulders, knees.

01:57:16.000 There's some things, man, you don't want to injure.

01:57:18.000 I don't think anybody's ever come back from a knee replacement and fought MMA.

01:57:21.000 I've never heard of that.

01:57:23.000 I've heard of disc replacements.

01:57:24.000 I've heard of a lot of knee surgeries.

01:57:26.000 Guys come back.

01:57:27.000 Modestus Bukakis was the worst.

01:57:29.000 Remember that he fought Khalil and Khalil side-kicked his knee sideways?

01:57:33.000 And he hyperextended it?

01:57:34.000 Oh, it went sideways.

01:57:36.000 John does that knee stomp thing too.

01:57:39.000 I don't know how I feel about that, man.

01:57:40.000 Well, Ian Gary did it to Shavcot.

01:57:42.000 I don't know how.

01:57:43.000 You fucked Shavcott's knee up.

01:57:44.000 I know.

01:57:45.000 It's kind of fucked because, look, yes, it's a legal, but so is eye pokes.

01:57:49.000 I feel like that's what I was about to say.

01:57:50.000 I feel like it's kind of dirty.

01:57:51.000 Like legalized eye pokes.

01:57:53.000 It is dirty.

01:57:54.000 I mean, so are nut shots.

01:57:55.000 Like, nut shots are effective too.

01:57:57.000 Are we going to allow those?

01:57:58.000 No.

01:57:58.000 I mean, why are we allowing someone to do a technique that you have to do?

01:58:01.000 We do have 12 to 6 elbows now, so that's at least we're getting someone.

01:58:04.000 Yeah, I like that.

01:58:05.000 But I'd rather have knees to a grounded opponent than kicking the knee sideways.

01:58:10.000 It just seems like it takes a year off of your career, at least.

01:58:14.000 So can a knee bar, so can an arm bar.

01:58:17.000 Yeah, but you could tap.

01:58:18.000 True, true, true, true.

01:58:19.000 You get a knee bar, you could tap.

01:58:21.000 Inside heel hooks is the scariest because you only got a couple of microseconds to tap.

01:58:26.000 When you get that one, that one's so nasty.

01:58:28.000 The knee across, you have no time.

01:58:30.000 You just gotta tap.

01:58:32.000 Yeah.

01:58:32.000 You just gotta know when you're done.

01:58:34.000 You gotta know when he got you and not let it.

01:58:36.000 Did you ever see when Mike Imusamichi fought some cat in?

01:58:41.000 I think I know what you're talking about.

01:58:42.000 And the dude would not tap.

01:58:44.000 He was just ripping his knee apart.

01:58:46.000 And Mikey was talking about it afterwards.

01:58:48.000 It was so gross.

01:58:49.000 I was like, why did you make me do that to you?

01:58:51.000 Why didn't you just tap?

01:58:53.000 He mangled that guy's leg.

01:58:54.000 I think I saw a highlight of that.

01:58:56.000 It was horrible.

01:58:57.000 It's so horrible to watch.

01:58:59.000 You got it?

01:59:00.000 Yeah, show me.

01:59:01.000 Yeah, let's see this.

01:59:02.000 Here it is.

01:59:03.000 Look at his leg.

01:59:03.000 Like, look at this.

01:59:05.000 Bro, bro.

01:59:06.000 That is almost as nasty as watching that arm bar or that guillotine from Dan Miller.

01:59:13.000 Look at this.

01:59:16.000 This dude won't tap.

01:59:17.000 It's so crazy.

01:59:18.000 And Mikey is just a master at destroying your knees.

01:59:22.000 Any normal human being would have tapped.

01:59:25.000 Yeah.

01:59:25.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:59:26.000 And he does this like seven times in this match where he rips this guy's leg sideways, left way, right ways.

01:59:33.000 The guy's knee's destroyed.

01:59:36.000 Like, look at that.

01:59:36.000 Look how nasty this is, man.

01:59:38.000 This is so nasty.

01:59:40.000 Look how sideways.

01:59:41.000 Right, that angle, too.

01:59:42.000 That angle is so awful.

01:59:44.000 The fact that this dude is just tolerating it, like right there, that's destroyed.

01:59:48.000 That is destroyed.

01:59:51.000 I don't know if that dude ever competed again afterwards.

01:59:53.000 He might never be the same.

01:59:54.000 No, he won't be the same.

01:59:55.000 He won't be the same.

01:59:57.000 He'll never be 100%.

01:59:58.000 Like, you get your shit ripped apart like that.

02:00:00.000 For sure, there's some meniscus.

02:00:02.000 MCL, ACL, meniscus.

02:00:03.000 MCL, everything.

02:00:05.000 Fuck that.

02:00:06.000 Heel hooks.

02:00:06.000 That changed.

02:00:07.000 I've been fortunate, man, with my knees.

02:00:09.000 I have a torn meniscus in my right knee, but never needed surgery.

02:00:13.000 Had a partial tear of my ACL when I fought Islam.

02:00:16.000 He pulled me off against the fence and my knee slid, and I felt it, Terry.

02:00:19.000 It felt like fire in my knee, you know.

02:00:21.000 And when you feel pain in a fight, you know it's bad because you usually don't.

02:00:24.000 But I felt it burning like fire.

02:00:24.000 Right.

02:00:27.000 But you didn't need surgery?

02:00:29.000 Didn't need surgery.

02:00:30.000 Did a bunch of physical therapy.

02:00:32.000 I had a partial tear.

02:00:34.000 There's something called maybe a ligamentum or something that connects where your ACL is.

02:00:37.000 Every time you tear your ACL, the ligamentum is completely torn always.

02:00:42.000 And mine had a partial tear in that.

02:00:43.000 So I must have took the weight off or we switched a position right before it tore my ACL.

02:00:48.000 Oh.

02:00:49.000 Yeah.

02:00:49.000 But I had like bruising.

02:00:50.000 You know, back of my leg was all bruised up.

02:00:52.000 Couldn't bend it for a little bit.

02:00:53.000 But now it's 100%?

02:00:54.000 Yeah, I feel great.

02:00:55.000 Yeah, it's interesting.

02:00:56.000 Like, Arnold.

02:00:58.000 No, who was it that was telling me that?

02:01:01.000 Like, there's different people that have had different levels of tears.

02:01:06.000 And then in those levels of tears, like some of them you can come back from 100%, but some of them.

02:01:13.000 Okay, this dude.

02:01:14.000 A broken ankle, too.

02:01:15.000 Oh, my God.

02:01:16.000 So this dude that try saying his name.

02:01:20.000 How do you say his name?

02:01:21.000 Gentamer.

02:01:26.000 So this is the guy, Mikey Musumichi.

02:01:28.000 He was torn ACL, torn MCL, torn meniscus, and a broken ankle.

02:01:33.000 That's crazy.

02:01:35.000 That's crazy.

02:01:36.000 He did like a toe hold or something.

02:01:38.000 How'd he break his ankle?

02:01:39.000 So was it Brendan Allen?

02:01:41.000 Brendan Allen was in the podcast.

02:01:42.000 He was telling me this.

02:01:43.000 He tore his ACL completely and never got it fixed, and it reattached.

02:01:49.000 Yeah.

02:01:49.000 Wow.

02:01:50.000 Like at a slightly different angle, but reattached.

02:01:53.000 Like it tore off, but it was still hanging in there and it rehealed.

02:01:56.000 I was like, that's not.

02:01:57.000 I never even heard of that before.

02:01:59.000 But I know some people that have had like a three-quarter tear and it heals, but it's not really the same.

02:02:05.000 Right.

02:02:06.000 It's still a little funky.

02:02:07.000 You know, Brad Pickett fought his whole career with the torn, no ACL in one of his legs.

02:02:12.000 I think Justin has that situation.

02:02:14.000 Yeah.

02:02:15.000 Like Brad would sit on the ground on the mat and then grab his shin and slide it forward and you could see like the movement.

02:02:21.000 How does that not chew your meniscus?

02:02:23.000 He fought so many fights like that.

02:02:24.000 Oh my God.

02:02:25.000 Well, Rico Rodriguez did too.

02:02:27.000 Rico always had a blown out ACL.

02:02:29.000 And he fought.

02:02:30.000 Rico was down in Louisiana for a while, man.

02:02:32.000 Rico Rodriguez was.

02:02:34.000 Oh, he was one of the first Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Black Belts.

02:02:36.000 I trained with him at Tim's Gym before.

02:02:38.000 Yeah, he was really good on the ground, man.

02:02:41.000 Rico was really good on the ground.

02:02:42.000 And he was a UFC heavyweight.

02:02:44.000 I know.

02:02:45.000 I know.

02:02:45.000 People forget.

02:02:46.000 Dude, I didn't even know who he was.

02:02:47.000 I was sparring him.

02:02:48.000 Tim was like, wasn't a heavyweight champion to use.

02:02:51.000 I know, isn't that fun?

02:02:51.000 I'm like, no way.

02:02:52.000 He was out of shape.

02:02:53.000 You know, I was like, who's this big tattooed guy?

02:02:55.000 Let's go.

02:02:57.000 There's a lot of guys that people forgot they slept on.

02:03:01.000 It's interesting when you think about that.

02:03:03.000 He was running a gym in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

02:03:04.000 I don't know if he's still in there.

02:03:05.000 Nico was?

02:03:06.000 He had partnered with Baton Rouge.

02:03:06.000 Yeah.

02:03:08.000 In Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

02:03:09.000 He took over an LA boxing.

02:03:12.000 They turned it into a UFC gym now, but he was part owner or something.

02:03:16.000 He was running it.

02:03:17.000 Wow.

02:03:17.000 Yeah.

02:03:18.000 Yeah, it's a hard road when guys retire and people don't even remember them.

02:03:22.000 Like, at least you have a giant name.

02:03:25.000 Like, you're always going to be able to do seminars.

02:03:27.000 People are always going to want to bring you into events.

02:03:29.000 You have a career no matter what.

02:03:31.000 Yeah, I've been doing a lot of watch parties where I get with the fans and watch the fights.

02:03:33.000 It's fun, man.

02:03:34.000 I enjoy it.

02:03:35.000 That's cool.

02:03:36.000 It's sometimes a little awkward because the fans will stick around too long.

02:03:39.000 Like I'm watching the fights with you, but you come sit at my booth and like we run out of things to talk about.

02:03:43.000 It's like, okay.

02:03:44.000 Hey, man, let me get your number.

02:03:45.000 Like, hey, bro.

02:03:45.000 Oh, hey, my buddy's on FaceTime.

02:03:47.000 Can you talk to so-and-so?

02:03:48.000 Like, dude, just chill.

02:03:49.000 I know.

02:03:50.000 Some people just can't hang.

02:03:51.000 Dude, but I fought, like I said, 19 years.

02:03:54.000 I say 20, but it's 19 years that I fought.

02:03:56.000 Until that Connor fight, like, that's when things changed for me recognition-wise.

02:04:01.000 Yeah.

02:04:02.000 That's interesting.

02:04:02.000 Wow.

02:04:04.000 That's crazy because the door opened for seminars, for appearances.

02:04:07.000 That changed.

02:04:08.000 Changed.

02:04:09.000 That's so weird.

02:04:10.000 And I had been in so many UFC main events.

02:04:13.000 I had fought for the belt.

02:04:14.000 I've done all this stuff.

02:04:15.000 But that guy's name, Jan.

02:04:17.000 Isn't it nuts?

02:04:18.000 A just personality got him so, well, obviously, very skilled.

02:04:22.000 For sure.

02:04:22.000 The Eddie Alvarez fight.

02:04:23.000 That's Connor in his prime form when he was in the Aldo.

02:04:27.000 Yes.

02:04:28.000 Eddie.

02:04:29.000 The Aldo fight was great, but because it was one shot.

02:04:33.000 And nobody's done that to Aldo ever.

02:04:34.000 Ever, ever.

02:04:35.000 And since that was amazing.

02:04:38.000 But the Alvarez fight was him in the Matrix when the punch is moving up.

02:04:43.000 He's touching his nose and he's firing back those combinations.

02:04:47.000 He was just in the zone.

02:04:50.000 That was funny.

02:04:50.000 And Eddie's Connor.

02:04:52.000 Walk in the park.

02:04:53.000 Eddie's good, man.

02:04:53.000 No.

02:04:54.000 He's tough as fuck.

02:04:56.000 When Eddie beat Dos Angelos, I was like, holy shit, man.

02:05:00.000 I was always a big Eddie fan.

02:05:02.000 Oh, he was.

02:05:03.000 His dream.

02:05:03.000 Always.

02:05:04.000 Fights with Chandler.

02:05:06.000 You want to talk about taking years off your life.

02:05:10.000 Those fights that those two had that nobody was watching other than the hardcore guys, those were to this day.

02:05:16.000 I tell people, you want to watch some chaos?

02:05:18.000 Watch Eddie Alvarez and Michael Chandler in Bellator.

02:05:23.000 There's some of the best fights of all.

02:05:24.000 Knockdown, drag out, both guys.

02:05:26.000 If you're a fan of chaos, watch those fights.

02:05:28.000 Those fights were fucking bananas.

02:05:32.000 And so that's what we anticipated when Chandler came over.

02:05:35.000 And then we knocked out Dan Hooker in the first round.

02:05:37.000 I was like, oh, shit, he's here.

02:05:38.000 Same card.

02:05:39.000 Same card as me and Connor.

02:05:40.000 But I think that it was too late.

02:05:43.000 I think he had already suffered so much punishment.

02:05:48.000 If we got a hold of Michael Chandler, like six, seven years before that, when he was fighting in Bellator, this is the problem with PFL.

02:05:55.000 This is the problem with Bellator.

02:05:56.000 And I don't think it's a problem because I think these guys are prize fighters.

02:05:59.000 You know, like, I think Francis Ngato said it best when he was talking about this Netflix card.

02:06:04.000 They're saying, someone said to him, Do you think this fucks with your legacy?

02:06:08.000 He goes, legacy?

02:06:09.000 Who's legacy for?

02:06:10.000 For you?

02:06:11.000 He goes, fuck, keep your legacy.

02:06:13.000 Give me my money.

02:06:14.000 Give me my pay.

02:06:15.000 This is what I'm supposed to be getting.

02:06:16.000 I'm Francis Ngano.

02:06:17.000 And I think he's right.

02:06:19.000 But he's Francis Ngano.

02:06:20.000 He's already the UFC heavyweight champion.

02:06:23.000 Left as the UFC heavyweight champion.

02:06:25.000 But for a lot of these guys that are starting their career, their best years are in these other organizations and not enough people know.

02:06:34.000 Like Johnny Eblin, perfect example you were talking about before.

02:06:36.000 He knocked out Leon Edwards' brother.

02:06:38.000 I mean, he's fucking beat.

02:06:40.000 I cornered him when he beat Musasi.

02:06:40.000 He's beat Musasi.

02:06:42.000 Dude, Musasi's a legend.

02:06:43.000 I grew up watching him, a legend.

02:06:45.000 There's a guy, another one, good guy that people forgot about.

02:06:48.000 Gagard Musasi was a fucking guy.

02:06:50.000 By the time he made it to the UFC, I was already such a big fan, but like the casuals didn't know who he was.

02:06:54.000 Oh, he was so good, dude.

02:06:55.000 Gagar was so good, so smart.

02:06:58.000 Just so smart and unassuming.

02:06:58.000 Right.

02:07:01.000 Was it him who upkicked Jakara?

02:07:02.000 Yeah.

02:07:03.000 Into a triangle.

02:07:03.000 Yeah.

02:07:04.000 Yep.

02:07:05.000 Yeah, man.

02:07:05.000 Yep.

02:07:06.000 I think that was in.

02:07:06.000 Yeah.

02:07:07.000 Dream?

02:07:08.000 Yeah.

02:07:09.000 Yeah.

02:07:10.000 Yeah, Gagar was a beast, man.

02:07:12.000 He was a beast.

02:07:13.000 Eddie Alvarez in Dream was a bunch of good fights.

02:07:16.000 And Gagard stopped Wideman in the UFC.

02:07:19.000 Really good fundamental boxing, great jab.

02:07:21.000 Yeah, great everywhere.

02:07:22.000 Yeah, good wrestling.

02:07:23.000 Good wrestling defense.

02:07:25.000 Just super smart, too.

02:07:26.000 Just a very, very intelligent guy.

02:07:29.000 He got put on the shelf with that Bellator deal.

02:07:33.000 He got put on the shelf, and I don't know what's going on with him.

02:07:36.000 What was the last time?

02:07:36.000 I don't know.

02:07:37.000 I don't know when Gagas had Musasi last fought.

02:07:39.000 He might not even still be under contract with PFL or whatever.

02:07:43.000 Well, I think he's 40 now.

02:07:44.000 He was old in the UFC.

02:07:46.000 Yeah.

02:07:46.000 He's got to be close to 40, if not older.

02:07:50.000 Where's Gagard Musasi these days?

02:07:54.000 He got drafted in the Global Fight League.

02:07:57.000 Canceled, I think.

02:07:59.000 Oh, that thing.

02:08:00.000 I knew that was going to fall apart from the jump.

02:08:02.000 Whatever thing was weird.

02:08:03.000 When I was talking to coaches at American Top Team, and they were telling me, like, all these ex-UFC fighters, what their contracts were with this company, I was like, dude, they haven't even put on one show and they're signing guys to these kind of contracts.

02:08:14.000 I mean, the money was crazy.

02:08:15.000 So 2023 was his last fight.

02:08:17.000 How old is he now?

02:08:19.000 So he lost to Fabian Edwards, the same guy that Eblin knocked out.

02:08:23.000 40.

02:08:24.000 Yeah, cornered Eblin.

02:08:25.000 Dream catcher.

02:08:27.000 In that fight, dude, he got cut so bad with an elbow.

02:08:29.000 Like, I can see the vein in this.

02:08:31.000 I have it in my phone.

02:08:31.000 It was crazy.

02:08:33.000 I have it in my phone.

02:08:34.000 The vein's still intact.

02:08:35.000 It didn't cut the vein, but you can see it.

02:08:36.000 Oh, boy.

02:08:37.000 Oh, it's pretty gnarly.

02:08:38.000 And then he stopped him.

02:08:39.000 Yeah, elbow.

02:08:41.000 We were in Ireland.

02:08:42.000 Yeah, Eblin's a tough guy, man.

02:08:44.000 And I think he's like one of those guys that's like at the very top of the heap at 185.

02:08:49.000 But again, I know about him, but how many people do?

02:08:52.000 That's unfortunate.

02:08:53.000 Yeah.

02:08:54.000 You know, because he's been fighting NFL for how many years now?

02:08:57.000 Well, he was Bellator.

02:08:58.000 Bellator, and then they bought him.

02:08:59.000 For how many years now?

02:09:00.000 A long time.

02:09:01.000 I mean, I think he might have had one or two fights when Bellator signed him.

02:09:05.000 He got in early at Bellator.

02:09:07.000 But he's a student, man.

02:09:08.000 He's going to keep getting better.

02:09:09.000 He's pretty young still.

02:09:11.000 Submitting Mark Hunt's crazy.

02:09:12.000 That's crazy.

02:09:13.000 Right?

02:09:14.000 And you think how small he is?

02:09:15.000 He fought at 185 in the UFC, and he submitted 260-pound Mark Hunt.

02:09:20.000 Gagard Musasi was a fucking beast.

02:09:24.000 Just technique.

02:09:24.000 He was a beast.

02:09:25.000 Yep.

02:09:26.000 Technique, toughness, and intelligence.

02:09:26.000 Just technique.

02:09:29.000 Just so crafty.

02:09:30.000 Just so good.

02:09:31.000 Everywhere.

02:09:32.000 Good on the ground.

02:09:33.000 Good standing up.

02:09:34.000 And super patient, man.

02:09:35.000 Methodical.

02:09:36.000 Yeah.

02:09:37.000 Yeah, I've always been a fan of him.

02:09:38.000 There's a lot of those guys that just people forget about.

02:09:40.000 They forgot.

02:09:42.000 Yeah, a bunch.

02:09:43.000 I always tell you people, one guy that people underestimated because they didn't get to see him when he was in his prime or they just forgot is Masvedal.

02:09:51.000 People forgot how good Masvedal is.

02:09:53.000 Masvedal knocked out Eve Edwards with a head kick.

02:09:56.000 Remember that?

02:09:56.000 Bowdog.

02:09:57.000 Yep.

02:09:58.000 Yeah.

02:09:59.000 Bro, Masvedal in his prime was a motherfucker.

02:10:04.000 When he knocked out Darren Till, remember that shit?

02:10:04.000 He was good.

02:10:07.000 That switch step.

02:10:08.000 Oh, my God.

02:10:09.000 Yeah, of course.

02:10:10.000 Switch step, I think, caught him with a left hook.

02:10:12.000 Knocked him out cold.

02:10:13.000 Cold.

02:10:14.000 Head kicked.

02:10:14.000 And he was a dog.

02:10:15.000 Like, when he started focused on his wrestling, he was a dog in Strike Force, man.

02:10:18.000 At 55.

02:10:20.000 Oh, yeah.

02:10:21.000 He was a dog back then.

02:10:22.000 No, Masvedal was a beast, man.

02:10:24.000 And he's good everywhere, man.

02:10:25.000 He's good everywhere.

02:10:26.000 He has good jiu-jitsu, good wrestling, good kickboxing.

02:10:29.000 He's good everywhere.

02:10:30.000 I mean, when he went off the 170, that's not really his weight class.

02:10:33.000 His real weight class was 55.

02:10:35.000 Yeah, but I think as he got older, he's a big guy.

02:10:38.000 He has really thick legs, and he's a little bit taller, taller than me for sure.

02:10:38.000 He's a big guy.

02:10:42.000 But like when he was really competitive, I feel like it was at 55.

02:10:45.000 Yeah.

02:10:45.000 But I mean, like, he gave guys problems at 70.

02:10:48.000 Like, the Darren Till fight was at 70.

02:10:51.000 He fucked a lot of guys up at 70.

02:10:52.000 Cowboy.

02:10:53.000 Cowboy.

02:10:53.000 Yep.

02:10:53.000 Was that at 70?

02:10:54.000 Body shot at 170.

02:10:56.000 Damn.

02:10:56.000 Yeah.

02:10:57.000 No, Mazado.

02:10:58.000 People forgot.

02:10:59.000 And then, you know, he was having those backyard fights in the Kimbo Slice days.

02:11:05.000 Which is crazy.

02:11:06.000 The bare knuckle Kimbo fights, Kimbo Slice fights.

02:11:09.000 Yeah, man.

02:11:10.000 Kimbo used to come to the American Top Team, used to bring his kids and stuff.

02:11:13.000 It was crazy talking to him because I grew up watching his fights, you know.

02:11:16.000 Well, he was like the first guy to become a legend on YouTube.

02:11:19.000 Yeah.

02:11:20.000 Yeah, everybody knows who he is.

02:11:22.000 Pussy looks so cool.

02:11:23.000 The bald head and the beard and the hair in the back.

02:11:26.000 Everything was crazy.

02:11:27.000 The braids in the back.

02:11:28.000 Yeah.

02:11:29.000 Super jacked.

02:11:30.000 And just fucking people up in the backyard.

02:11:33.000 Yeah.

02:11:33.000 Like they were moving around like satisfaction.

02:11:35.000 I think he was a bodyguard or a driver for a guy in Miami who started a porn company and that's how it started.

02:11:42.000 Exactly.

02:11:43.000 And they organized these fights where they would just no warm-up.

02:11:47.000 Just all right, let's go.

02:11:48.000 No, he would get out the car in the front driveway and walk to the back and just start scrapping.

02:11:52.000 I know.

02:11:52.000 It's crazy.

02:11:53.000 But as a kid, like when that stuff came out as a kid, that was such a big thing to watch, you know, that we had to download it illegally on like LimeWire or something back then.

02:12:00.000 Yeah.

02:12:01.000 You know, that was wild times.

02:12:03.000 And then to see him in the UFC and the ultimate fighter, dude, what a journey that guy had.

02:12:06.000 I know.

02:12:07.000 What balls it took for him to do that, to enter into the UFC with like basically zero grappling.

02:12:12.000 Like really just kind of learning the sport.

02:12:12.000 Yeah.

02:12:15.000 But, you know, so good boxing, but I don't think like Jim, not trained boxing, just natural ability.

02:12:20.000 Well, he definitely had some training, right?

02:12:22.000 The way he moved was even in the bare knuckle, the way he moved was like a boxer, a shell, you know?

02:12:27.000 Like a Mike Tyson movement.

02:12:27.000 Yeah.

02:12:29.000 Yeah, but it was like rudimentary.

02:12:31.000 Remember when he fought Seth Petruzelli?

02:12:33.000 Yeah.

02:12:34.000 Yeah.

02:12:34.000 Like last minute, Petruzzelli comes in last minute.

02:12:36.000 Like Ken Shamrock had some sort of a dispute with them and maybe got cut backstage or something instead of how to cut.

02:12:43.000 And so like last minute, they swapped out Seth Petruzelli.

02:12:46.000 And he knocked him out.

02:12:47.000 Yeah.

02:12:48.000 I called that one.

02:12:49.000 I called that one camera.

02:12:52.000 No, I wasn't doing it.

02:12:53.000 The commentary.

02:12:54.000 I think it was Elite XC.

02:12:55.000 I think that bankrupt them or something.

02:12:56.000 I don't know how.

02:12:57.000 That fight bankrupt them?

02:12:59.000 I don't know if it bankrupt them, but after that happened, they didn't have many more shows after that.

02:13:02.000 Well, I think they were going under anyway, unfortunately.

02:13:05.000 Yeah, I don't know how that fight would have bankrupted.

02:13:07.000 Well, they had some guy who was a boxing guy who was running the whole thing.

02:13:10.000 Was his name Gary Shaw?

02:13:12.000 I don't know back then.

02:13:13.000 I don't remember either.

02:13:14.000 But, you know, like, it's hard to make money in these things, man.

02:13:18.000 Like, those things are hard.

02:13:20.000 Like, the UFC doesn't get the credit it deserves in terms of the promotional machine.

02:13:24.000 Like, that's a smooth-running machine.

02:13:26.000 Oh, yeah.

02:13:27.000 That machine's been around for a long time.

02:13:29.000 It's so polished between the production, all the guys in the truck, the directors, the producers.

02:13:35.000 Oh, they're the best of the best.

02:13:36.000 Yeah, they're the best.

02:13:37.000 It's hard.

02:13:38.000 And then you got all the best fighters.

02:13:40.000 And it's like the product.

02:13:41.000 So when they have a fight like Holloway and Olivera and like, oh, this fight wasn't good.

02:13:47.000 Like, that's a great fight, man.

02:13:50.000 You can't be a casual.

02:13:52.000 People are just bloodthirsty.

02:13:53.000 Yeah.

02:13:54.000 You know, like, listen, to do that to Max Holloway is crazy.

02:13:58.000 Do you not appreciate that?

02:13:59.000 Go watch baseball.

02:14:00.000 Wrestlers, great grapplers have never done that to him.

02:14:03.000 I know.

02:14:03.000 It's nuts.

02:14:04.000 It's nuts if you think about it.

02:14:06.000 Yeah.

02:14:07.000 It's exciting, man.

02:14:08.000 The UFC is definitely the best at it.

02:14:10.000 With this whole Paramount thing, I was kind of, we'll see how it turns out.

02:14:13.000 I was kind of worried.

02:14:14.000 Like, if you take pay-per-view off the table, how much is UFC going to put the biggest fights together?

02:14:21.000 Because they don't need to sell pay-per-views.

02:14:22.000 They're guaranteed money.

02:14:24.000 You know, I was just wondering if that would not water it down, but we would get a bunch of weaker cards, and I'm still waiting to find out, man.

02:14:29.000 Well, it is weird, right?

02:14:31.000 Because with pay-per-view, you're always building it up so that people buy it.

02:14:35.000 And then also points.

02:14:38.000 Like, the fighters get paid points.

02:14:40.000 So how are fighters getting paid?

02:14:42.000 I've been asking every show at work.

02:14:44.000 I ask everybody.

02:14:45.000 I want to know because my last few years in the UFC, nobody's telling you.

02:14:48.000 Nobody's telling me anything.

02:14:50.000 They're keeping you in the dark?

02:14:51.000 Keeping me in the dark.

02:14:51.000 What the fuck is that?

02:14:52.000 Keeping me in the dark, man.

02:14:54.000 Because, you know, I was a pay-per-view partner multiple fights with the UFC.

02:14:57.000 If there's, and that was always the thing they kind of in discussion about contracts and about future fights that they kind of held over you.

02:15:05.000 Like, you win this fight.

02:15:06.000 One day you're going to fight for the belt.

02:15:07.000 You're going to get pay-per-view.

02:15:08.000 Your life's going to change.

02:15:09.000 That was always a carrot they hung to make, you know, to do anything.

02:15:13.000 That was the goal.

02:15:13.000 To one day fight for the belt and get the pay-per-view money.

02:15:16.000 But now that that's gone, I mean, Connor's not going to fight.

02:15:18.000 Even Justin at the White House.

02:15:19.000 There's no way these guys aren't fighting with that backdoor money.

02:15:23.000 So they must be just guaranteeing them a bigger per I don't know.

02:15:26.000 Well, I think Justin would fight no matter what, because it's for the title.

02:15:29.000 This is his last fight.

02:15:30.000 Well, that, yeah, the title, the title.

02:15:32.000 But any pay-per-view that's at the White House, he's a patriot.

02:15:35.000 It's the last fight.

02:15:37.000 You know, I think he would fight no matter what.

02:15:40.000 But, like, you know, Rhonda Rousey, you know, she's promoting the Netflix fight.

02:15:46.000 She made, I don't know if you saw what she said, but she had this big, long speech about the UFC selling for $7 billion.

02:15:53.000 These fighters aren't making enough money.

02:15:55.000 And, you know, look, she made some good points.

02:15:57.000 And the most important thing is that she gets the conversation out there and it puts pressure on the UFC to pay people more.

02:16:04.000 You know, and if Netflix can become successful at MMA, if they can become successful at putting cars together and pulling fighters away, like right now, they're doing a one-off, right?

02:16:15.000 It's one-off and it's kind of a gimmicky thing.

02:16:17.000 And listen, this payroll is going to be crazy.

02:16:19.000 It's going to be crazy.

02:16:20.000 You got Rhonda, Francis, Nate, everybody's getting crazy money.

02:16:24.000 The payroll is going to be nuts.

02:16:25.000 But if anybody's got that kind of money, it's Netflix.

02:16:28.000 They throw around a lot of ridiculous money.

02:16:30.000 They make so much money.

02:16:32.000 So they can kind of do that.

02:16:34.000 The question is, are they going to do that more than once?

02:16:37.000 So if they do that more than once, then what happens is it's all about the name of the fighters, just like boxing.

02:16:43.000 Like if boxing, no one cares if it's Golden Boy, Rob Aram.

02:16:47.000 Nobody cares about that.

02:16:48.000 What they care about is who's fighting who.

02:16:50.000 Is it Benavidez?

02:16:51.000 Who's he fighting?

02:16:52.000 Is he fighting Bival?

02:16:53.000 Let's go.

02:16:53.000 That's a great fight.

02:16:55.000 So if Netflix can kind of do the boxing thing on Netflix with like big name stars, they can be a major player.

02:17:04.000 And that will elevate everybody's pay scale.

02:17:06.000 So as a lot of people are like, oh, Rhonda, how could you turn her back on the UFC and talk shit like that?

02:17:12.000 If what she's saying doesn't make any sense, she can't say it.

02:17:17.000 Right?

02:17:18.000 So if what she's saying makes sense, then you have to go, she's got a point.

02:17:22.000 Yeah.

02:17:23.000 She's got a point.

02:17:24.000 She's got a point.

02:17:24.000 They sold it for $7 billion or whatever it is.

02:17:28.000 They got this $7 billion deal, whatever the fucking deal was with Paramount.

02:17:32.000 Not even selling it, sold rights to it, right?

02:17:35.000 That makes sense.

02:17:36.000 She's making sense.

02:17:37.000 And so if she's saying this and Netflix listens, and if someone comes along, they're a shrewd businessman, they go, look, there's a lot of people, their contracts are coming up.

02:17:46.000 And when these people's contracts are coming up, let's get into negotiations.

02:17:49.000 And then all of a sudden, some people start drifting over.

02:17:51.000 So if like, you get like an Islam Makachev who starts leaving and they leave and go fight in Netflix.

02:17:57.000 And then they can talk four or five top major contenders into doing, look, it's a big ask.

02:18:02.000 Look, I love the UFC.

02:18:04.000 Spent most of my professional career there, but I love seeing these other organizations come up and people making money.

02:18:10.000 Like you said, it rises everything.

02:18:12.000 It's more places for people to work.

02:18:14.000 It's great.

02:18:15.000 It's only good.

02:18:16.000 Olivier Alban Mercier.

02:18:18.000 A million dollars in the PFL.

02:18:20.000 And I think he did it more than once, right?

02:18:20.000 Yeah.

02:18:22.000 Didn't he win the tournament twice or something like that?

02:18:25.000 I'm not sure.

02:18:26.000 He definitely won it at least once.

02:18:28.000 A Canadian gangster?

02:18:29.000 Right.

02:18:30.000 A guy who's not in the top 10 of the UFC goes over to another organization and makes a million dollars.

02:18:37.000 Okay.

02:18:37.000 I don't know if that's sustainable for them.

02:18:39.000 I don't know how they came up with that money.

02:18:41.000 They got to be bleeding money out.

02:18:42.000 They have to be bleeding money.

02:18:43.000 Nobody's watching it.

02:18:44.000 Or even guys like Pettus, who was a former world champion, who, you know, his contract was good in the UFC.

02:18:49.000 Right.

02:18:50.000 Didn't chose not to re-sign with the UFC and he went to PFL.

02:18:52.000 They had to be paying him big money.

02:18:54.000 They have to be.

02:18:55.000 So it's all competition ultimately is good for the most important thing, which is paying the fighters.

02:19:02.000 So I'm happy.

02:19:03.000 And places to work.

02:19:04.000 Like if the UFC cuts you or something, back 10 years ago, there's the only place to make money.

02:19:11.000 They cut you.

02:19:11.000 Now you got to get a job.

02:19:12.000 Maybe fight.

02:19:13.000 Try to get back in part-time fighting.

02:19:16.000 Now you can pivot and still have a career.

02:19:18.000 Well, this is the thing with Francis.

02:19:19.000 When Francis left the PFL, everybody's like, well, now he's fucked because he can't fight in the UFC.

02:19:25.000 I wanted him to come back to the UFC.

02:19:26.000 And I was like, come on.

02:19:28.000 Can we figure out a way to do this?

02:19:29.000 This happened.

02:19:30.000 But Dana just does not want to have anything to do with him.

02:19:33.000 Apparently, they did not get along very well.

02:19:36.000 Which is like, I'm like, come on.

02:19:38.000 Yeah.

02:19:40.000 Can I help?

02:19:41.000 Can I fucking get you?

02:19:42.000 Can you guys in a room together and fucking calm everybody down?

02:19:45.000 But the most important thing is.

02:19:47.000 He's still a guy I want to watch.

02:19:49.000 Oh, yeah.

02:19:50.000 He's still a guy I want to watch.

02:19:51.000 I mean, he's the legit heavyweight champion, if you think about it.

02:19:54.000 He never got beat in MMA as a heavyweight champion.

02:19:58.000 And then he fought Hennan Ferreira in PFL.

02:20:02.000 Yeah.

02:20:03.000 That's another ATT guy.

02:20:04.000 But it's another one where it's like, who's watching that?

02:20:07.000 I mean, and if you're watching it, you're just watching it with Francis.

02:20:10.000 Me and you.

02:20:11.000 Yeah.

02:20:11.000 Like, I mean, I wanted to know, like, what were the numbers for that fight?

02:20:14.000 It was probably the biggest fight they ever put on.

02:20:16.000 I don't think I've ever seen any numbers from PFL.

02:20:18.000 And I think if he was getting 20 million a fight and he wanted his opponents to get a huge amount too, I forget what the, he had like a minimum amount his opponents would get in his contract.

02:20:31.000 Respect.

02:20:31.000 That's that.

02:20:32.000 Yeah, that's cool.

02:20:33.000 That's part of his contract.

02:20:35.000 I forget what the number was, but it was substantial.

02:20:38.000 So Hennan Ferreira got a giant payday for that fight too.

02:20:41.000 It's like, how are they, where are they getting?

02:20:43.000 I guess they have Saudi money.

02:20:45.000 I think they did for some of the shows because they went to Saudi to do some shows.

02:20:50.000 But I don't know if they're backing them the whole company.

02:20:55.000 You're going to need something like Netflix.

02:20:58.000 And Netflix can kind of pull it off because Netflix has a massive promotional machine.

02:21:02.000 But they need big names.

02:21:04.000 So now that they have Nate and Mike Perry on the card too, like, okay.

02:21:09.000 Okay.

02:21:09.000 So you got Nate, Mike Perry.

02:21:11.000 You got Francis Philip Linz.

02:21:13.000 You have Ronda and Gina.

02:21:16.000 Okay.

02:21:17.000 Now you have three interesting fights.

02:21:19.000 Yeah.

02:21:20.000 You're going to need a few more.

02:21:21.000 And it's on Netflix, so it's going to be free.

02:21:23.000 But even if Nate and Mike Perry was the headliner, I would have bought that paper for you.

02:21:27.000 When you don't have to buy it, it's on Netflix.

02:21:27.000 100%.

02:21:29.000 So this is what gets interesting.

02:21:31.000 So if this fight goes on Netflix and gets 50 million views.

02:21:36.000 It's going to get a lot.

02:21:37.000 Yeah, it could get more views than any fight ever.

02:21:40.000 It could.

02:21:41.000 It's very possible.

02:21:43.000 Because Netflix is bigger than anything.

02:21:45.000 If they got more views than anybody ever, that would be fucking – and then YouTube might come along.

02:21:51.000 Oh, you're like a mixed martial arts event.

02:21:53.000 Hey guys, we're YouTube.

02:21:54.000 We're even bigger than Netflix.

02:21:56.000 YouTube is bigger than fucking Netflix.

02:21:57.000 YouTube is everywhere.

02:21:58.000 And if they come up with some crazy, if more players get involved in this and more people become free agents, it could get very interesting.

02:22:06.000 Dude, it's crazy to see how far the sport has come because all these big companies wouldn't want to touch this human cock fighting back in the day.

02:22:13.000 I know.

02:22:14.000 Now everybody wants a piece of the pie.

02:22:15.000 I know it's cool.

02:22:16.000 It's cool now, they know.

02:22:17.000 It's cool now, right?

02:22:17.000 Yeah, it's cool.

02:22:18.000 That cage fighting became something that like corporate America wants to get involved in.

02:22:22.000 Dude, I'm in the airport.

02:22:23.000 I'm in the grocery store.

02:22:24.000 Grandmothers, old ladies are walking up to me talking about fights, which is insane.

02:22:29.000 Insane.

02:22:30.000 Because 15 years ago, it was loves it.

02:22:30.000 Insane.

02:22:32.000 Bearded guys with tattoos would be in the grocery store.

02:22:36.000 We'd whisper about it, you know?

02:22:37.000 It was frowned upon.

02:22:38.000 We'd talk about Fight Club, you know?

02:22:41.000 Now it's like soccer moms.

02:22:43.000 Did you see the fight last week in the arm bar?

02:22:44.000 I'm like, what are you talking about?

02:22:46.000 Well, that's all the UFC.

02:22:48.000 The UFC, with that one deal, the Fritidas have such huge balls because they were down $40 million when they made that deal for Spike TV to do the Ultimate Fighter.

02:22:58.000 And they were like, we're fucking hemorrhaging money.

02:23:01.000 And they were talking about selling it.

02:23:02.000 And just a perfect storm.

02:23:04.000 Stefan and Forrest.

02:23:06.000 The world was watching, man.

02:23:07.000 And it felt special.

02:23:08.000 I remember being at my mother's house.

02:23:10.000 I knew I was watching something special.

02:23:12.000 Yeah.

02:23:12.000 Like, this is special.

02:23:14.000 I know.

02:23:14.000 It was crazy being there live, too.

02:23:16.000 It was so nuts.

02:23:18.000 It was so nuts to watch it evolve and watch it burst out.

02:23:21.000 And by then, by 2005, I had already been working for them for like four years.

02:23:26.000 Because I, well, I started in 97 with the old owners, and I did like the backstage and post-fight interviews.

02:23:34.000 And then I did it for a little bit, and then I had to quit.

02:23:37.000 I was like, this is costing me money.

02:23:39.000 I made more money going to a comedy club for a weekend than I would flying to Dothan, Alabama.

02:23:46.000 Bosier City, Louisiana.

02:23:47.000 But I was happy I did it because it was fun and it was exciting.

02:23:50.000 And I remember me and Eddie Bravo back then.

02:23:52.000 We were like, man, you know what the UFC needs?

02:23:54.000 This is like literally a conversation we had in like 98.

02:23:57.000 They need some crazy billionaires that love the sport to just dump a bunch of money in it because we know it's exciting.

02:24:02.000 It's just the rest of the world doesn't know.

02:24:04.000 And along came the Frititas and they did it.

02:24:07.000 Dude, they saw it and rode that vision out and it paid off.

02:24:09.000 It's nuts.

02:24:10.000 Paid off.

02:24:11.000 Literally, like exactly what we said needed to happen.

02:24:14.000 And then for that fight to happen in the Ultimate Fighter between Stefan Bonner and Forrest Griffin, because it was a perfect kind of fight, it was so evenly matched.

02:24:22.000 It was so chaotic, and they knew each other so well from being in the house together.

02:24:26.000 They just went after it for three solid rounds at the end.

02:24:29.000 Both guys were like, oh, but dude, nothing.

02:24:32.000 How could the idea of the actual Kumite idea of putting the best fighters from all over the world, whatever discipline they train in, let's find out what's the best?

02:24:40.000 That's, I mean, it has, of course, it's going to succeed.

02:24:43.000 It's chaos.

02:24:44.000 Yeah.

02:24:45.000 It's everything you want to see.

02:24:46.000 And the crazy thing, it was really kind of invented as a showcase for Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.

02:24:50.000 Because Horian was like, you know, like, look, Jiu-Jitsu is going to prevail.

02:24:55.000 And he was kind of right.

02:24:56.000 No, I mean, at first.

02:24:58.000 Dude, Hoyce was in there against Giants.

02:25:00.000 Dan Seven.

02:25:02.000 Chemo.

02:25:02.000 Dude, come on.

02:25:03.000 180 pounds?

02:25:03.000 What did he weigh?

02:25:04.000 190 pounds?

02:25:05.000 Maybe, not even.

02:25:06.000 Even 176.

02:25:08.000 And I asked him why they picked him.

02:25:08.000 Fighting these bodybuilders.

02:25:10.000 He goes, Look at this face.

02:25:12.000 Look how beautiful I am.

02:25:14.000 I'm so good looking.

02:25:15.000 That's why they picked me.

02:25:16.000 Wearing pajamas.

02:25:17.000 We even know what a gi was.

02:25:19.000 Well, I had no idea jiu-jitsu was that effective.

02:25:22.000 I was so confused.

02:25:23.000 Yeah.

02:25:24.000 I was like, someone's going to kick him.

02:25:26.000 Someone's going to punch him.

02:25:26.000 He's fucked.

02:25:28.000 And no.

02:25:29.000 Like, you're just taking dudes to the ground that stomps.

02:25:32.000 And there's no idea of anything that they're doing.

02:25:34.000 Just letting them pass guard, letting them do anything.

02:25:37.000 You don't know anything.

02:25:38.000 He's choking guys with the gi, too.

02:25:39.000 He's grabbing his own clothes.

02:25:41.000 I'm like, oh, this is wild.

02:25:43.000 That's one thing I do.

02:25:44.000 Like, I got away from the gi.

02:25:45.000 So from white belt to brown belt, I competed at IBJJF every tournament I could do my weight class would do Absolute.

02:25:53.000 Get the reps.

02:25:53.000 I love jiu-jitsu, but probably around 2011, 2012, I stopped putting a gi on.

02:26:02.000 It was all in mixed martial arts training because I was getting before I would use jiu-jitsu to prepare for fights at a small school I was at, but when I went to American top team, I didn't need it anymore because I had such high-level guys on the mats at all times.

02:26:13.000 I was doing jiu-jitsu no gi every day.

02:26:16.000 But it's been so many years since I've put on a gi and had like a jiu-jitsu practice, man.

02:26:20.000 Even the practices I do now are all no gi.

02:26:23.000 I want to get back into gi.

02:26:23.000 It's fun.

02:26:24.000 Gi's fun, but Eddie Bravo said it best.

02:26:27.000 He goes, if you were a professional tennis player, would you practice for tennis by playing racquetball?

02:26:33.000 No, you wouldn't.

02:26:34.000 You would play tennis.

02:26:35.000 You would do the thing that you do.

02:26:36.000 If you want to get really good at MMA Jiu-Jitsu, you need to do no gi.

02:26:40.000 And he's right.

02:26:41.000 I mean, Gi definitely helps as well, but you got to do no gi.

02:26:45.000 What Gi does is it teaches you that you have to be technical with your defense because you can't muscle out of things.

02:26:51.000 But the reality is, like, you should just be technical with no gi.

02:26:55.000 For sure.

02:26:55.000 That's the thing.

02:26:56.000 Like, get out of the thing.

02:26:58.000 I always say that the best jiu-jitsu is to learn jiu-jitsu from a small guy.

02:27:02.000 All techniques.

02:27:03.000 Yeah.

02:27:03.000 Like a Barrett Yoshida, Hoyler Gracie, Eddie Bravo.

02:27:08.000 Like, learn Jiu-Jitsu from small people.

02:27:10.000 Because they're all technique.

02:27:10.000 Yeah.

02:27:12.000 They can't muscle out of things.

02:27:13.000 You learn Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu from some big giant motherfucker.

02:27:17.000 Like, their game is going to be so different because they're so strong.

02:27:20.000 Right.

02:27:21.000 But like, look at the Sambo guys.

02:27:24.000 Look at the Makachevs and Khabibs.

02:27:26.000 Like, that's the game of no Gi.

02:27:30.000 That's no Gi.

02:27:31.000 It's like their no Gi game is finely polished.

02:27:34.000 Yeah.

02:27:36.000 It's not going to help them to wear a Gi.

02:27:38.000 Their game wouldn't be better.

02:27:39.000 Like Khabib's game wouldn't have been better.

02:27:41.000 It's all top Gi on.

02:27:42.000 You never see those guys on their back in the guard.

02:27:45.000 It's a different speed.

02:27:46.000 It's Jiu-Jitsu, but it's a different game.

02:27:49.000 What they do.

02:27:49.000 Yeah.

02:27:52.000 Small changes on the locks, like we were saying with the Darsh choke, grabbing your forearm.

02:27:55.000 They do things a little bit different, man.

02:27:57.000 Even their wrestling is different.

02:27:59.000 It's not collegiate fundamental wrestling that you would teach at a wrestling camp.

02:28:04.000 It's just chain wrestling that they kind of developed and have their own style, man.

02:28:07.000 It's different.

02:28:08.000 It really is.

02:28:09.000 And then, you know, when I've talked to Daniel, he's like, dude, I've seen Khabib put it on like high-level amateur wrestlers in the gym.

02:28:09.000 It's interesting.

02:28:19.000 Put it on them.

02:28:20.000 And I believe it too.

02:28:21.000 I mean, he's just, his discipline, when he was in his prime, man, his discipline was just above and beyond.

02:28:28.000 His discipline, his drive, his focus.

02:28:30.000 And there's something to be said for those guys, too, because they're super religious.

02:28:33.000 So there's no partying, there's no drinking, there's no chasing women, there's no bullshit.

02:28:37.000 It's just drive, drive, drive, drive.

02:28:40.000 Right.

02:28:42.000 You know, and that collecting the legs that he does with the triangle underneath the legs when he's in the mount against the fence.

02:28:48.000 So hard to get out of it.

02:28:50.000 Everybody's doing it now.

02:28:50.000 You know, the wrist ride, the handcuff he's doing.

02:28:53.000 Everybody's doing it.

02:28:55.000 Dude, he, I mean, it's been really interesting to watch these dominant forces come along and like sort of remap the landscape of the game, you know, and we've seen it with them.

02:28:55.000 Yeah.

02:29:08.000 Especially in such a high-stakes game.

02:29:09.000 How do you do it that many times without catching a heel to the face, without catching a knee?

02:29:14.000 You know, the guys he's fought, so many dangerous guys, he's just drowned them, you know?

02:29:19.000 I know.

02:29:20.000 Well, you know, Islam got caught in that one fight and got knocked out.

02:29:23.000 Adriano Martinez.

02:29:25.000 Right, but it just shows you as a human being.

02:29:27.000 Yeah, it can happen to anyone.

02:29:28.000 It could happen to anybody.

02:29:29.000 And the Glason T-Bow fight with Khabib.

02:29:33.000 I feel like Glason won that fight.

02:29:34.000 Oh, man.

02:29:35.000 I know a lot of people always talk about that.

02:29:36.000 I feel like.

02:29:37.000 Glayson won that fight.

02:29:38.000 Me and T-Bow have been training partners for so much.

02:29:40.000 We beat each other up so much.

02:29:41.000 He's such a fun guy, man.

02:29:42.000 Gleason is such a good dude.

02:29:43.000 He's another guy.

02:29:44.000 Like, how the fuck are you 155?

02:29:46.000 So much energy, dude.

02:29:47.000 Never complains about anything.

02:29:49.000 He could have a 50-pound weight cut smiling in the sauna.

02:29:52.000 Just happy to be here.

02:29:54.000 He just hoped both teams have fun.

02:29:55.000 That's awesome.

02:29:56.000 Yeah.

02:29:56.000 That's awesome.

02:29:57.000 Just a happy-go-guy, man.

02:29:59.000 I watched that fight again because I was like, am I talking out of school?

02:30:02.000 Should I shut the fuck up?

02:30:03.000 And I watched it again.

02:30:04.000 I go, no.

02:30:05.000 I think he won.

02:30:06.000 Was it a split?

02:30:07.000 I don't remember.

02:30:08.000 I don't remember if it was a split.

02:30:10.000 But he was stopping takedowns.

02:30:12.000 Yeah, and he was a tank.

02:30:15.000 That guy was a tank.

02:30:17.000 He was big.

02:30:19.000 He was big and jacked.

02:30:20.000 Dude, probably 5'8, 5'7.

02:30:23.000 Little sausage.

02:30:25.000 Yeah, maybe.

02:30:26.000 Maybe.

02:30:27.000 Maybe.

02:30:28.000 I don't know.

02:30:29.000 I don't know either.

02:30:30.000 I don't know.

02:30:31.000 Skillful.

02:30:31.000 Super skillful.

02:30:33.000 You know, solid striking, solid jiu-jitsu.

02:30:35.000 Oh, great jiu-jitsu.

02:30:37.000 Very good.

02:30:37.000 Everywhere.

02:30:38.000 Black belt jiu-jitsu.

02:30:39.000 Who's strong as fuck?

02:30:41.000 And just, you know.

02:30:42.000 They knew from an early age because I think his middle name is Herculino.

02:30:46.000 That's hilarious.

02:30:46.000 I'm serious.

02:30:47.000 Yeah.

02:30:48.000 Herculino.

02:30:49.000 Herculino.

02:30:50.000 Brazilians have some of the funnest niche.

02:30:52.000 Yeah, he might have eight names, you know.

02:30:53.000 I bet.

02:30:54.000 Yeah.

02:30:55.000 Gleason Tiba, Alvez, Herculino, a few other things that I'm missing, I'm sure.

02:30:59.000 Yeah.

02:31:00.000 I'm serious, though.

02:31:01.000 Johnny Gleason, maybe.

02:31:02.000 Tibau.

02:31:03.000 I don't know.

02:31:04.000 He has a few names.

02:31:05.000 I mean, really?

02:31:05.000 That's funny.

02:31:06.000 He's got a bunch of names that nobody knows.

02:31:09.000 That's hilarious, man.

02:31:10.000 Well, an American Top Team, man, you probably have seen more elite talent come through those doors.

02:31:16.000 Shout out to Dan Lampert.

02:31:17.000 Well, Dan's a man.

02:31:18.000 That motherfucker put the money in, put the time in when there was no money to be made.

02:31:25.000 That guy was.

02:31:25.000 There was nothing.

02:31:26.000 He just loved it.

02:31:27.000 It was a passion thing.

02:31:28.000 And just think, it's just like what we said with the UFC.

02:31:31.000 We need a rich guy to come along and just throw the money at it.

02:31:34.000 That's what Dan did with American Top Team.

02:31:36.000 I remember when he was putting together the new American Top Team facilities, and you show me we're going to have dorms.

02:31:41.000 We're going to have this.

02:31:42.000 I was like, this dude's trying to go broke.

02:31:44.000 Like, what are you doing?

02:31:45.000 Dude, it's huge.

02:31:46.000 And that area is crazy expensive.

02:31:47.000 It's on a huge piece of land.

02:31:49.000 I need to get Dan in here.

02:31:50.000 I know for sure.

02:31:51.000 I talked to him about it before, but he deserves, he deserves the credit because that guy.

02:31:55.000 And dude, honestly, like him building the gym and asking fighters for 5%, which is crazy, unheard of.

02:32:02.000 Other gyms are taking crazy amounts.

02:32:04.000 He's giving you all these amenities, giving you a place to stay.

02:32:07.000 At one point, he had houses as well, fighter houses that he bought, and he would put fighters up in the houses for camps and stuff.

02:32:14.000 Dude, I've heard of him paying, covering medical bills that fighters didn't have money for, never getting paid back.

02:32:22.000 He's done so much stuff, man.

02:32:24.000 Yeah.

02:32:24.000 Good for the sport.

02:32:26.000 He's amazing for the sport.

02:32:27.000 And if he didn't put together that super gym, who knows how many of these super gyms would have ever evolved?

02:32:32.000 Because he kind of set the blueprint for what a gym could be.

02:32:37.000 To this day, that's still the best gym in the world in terms of like super gyms.

02:32:40.000 There's so much knowledge, man.

02:32:41.000 Right.

02:32:42.000 So much knowledge, so much equipment.

02:32:44.000 It's so big.

02:32:45.000 It's so well-made.

02:32:47.000 And you never know who's going to be on the mat.

02:32:49.000 At any time you walk in and do an MMA class.

02:32:51.000 There's literally thousands of mixed martial arts about experience on the mat at any time.

02:32:56.000 Was Robbie his first world champion?

02:33:00.000 I was there for every camp when Robbie came over.

02:33:03.000 I feel like it might have been.

02:33:05.000 Everybody was like, Dan Lambert deserves a world champion.

02:33:08.000 Someone's got to be a world champion.

02:33:09.000 Robbie might have been the first, dude.

02:33:11.000 I think he might have been the first.

02:33:12.000 Well, I mean, Mike Brown was WC.

02:33:14.000 There's been UFC champion.

02:33:14.000 Yeah.

02:33:16.000 I guess Robbie Lawler was number one.

02:33:18.000 I remember when he came over, man.

02:33:21.000 Hey, how was Pantoja?

02:33:22.000 Do you know how his Loja champion?

02:33:24.000 I don't know how the injury is, but it has to be bad if they're skipping him and going with this other title fight.

02:33:29.000 I know.

02:33:30.000 I was there like two weeks ago.

02:33:31.000 I went down to help some buddies.

02:33:32.000 I spent a week there.

02:33:33.000 I didn't see Pantoja at all.

02:33:35.000 It was so nasty, but what was really weird was like when Megan Olivi was talking to us, they were saying that he dislocated his shoulder.

02:33:43.000 And I was like, what?

02:33:45.000 What?

02:33:45.000 Like, what are you talking about?

02:33:46.000 His elbow went out.

02:33:47.000 Like, I'm watching his elbow go out.

02:33:48.000 It looked like the elbow.

02:33:49.000 I said, no, but I think the doctor had misspoke.

02:33:53.000 And I'm 99% sure that it was actually the elbow that went out because the elbow clearly moves and it caves in and gives out.

02:34:01.000 Right.

02:34:02.000 And when that happens, ligaments, muscles, everything gets damaged, but I just don't know the extent.

02:34:06.000 Well, it's too bad because also Pantoja's older and he's older and dominant in fly weight, which is very hard to do.

02:34:13.000 It sucks at any time to see a fight in like that.

02:34:16.000 Especially a title fight.

02:34:16.000 Terrible.

02:34:18.000 Especially a title fight, especially on the streak he was on, defending the belt.

02:34:20.000 Like it just, fuck, man.

02:34:22.000 And he's such a hard worker and such a quiet guy and just a good dude, you know?

02:34:22.000 Not just that.

02:34:25.000 He's a fucking savage, too.

02:34:27.000 I think he's one of the greatest of all time.

02:34:28.000 The post-fight, Dana said something about the shoulder also.

02:34:31.000 They popped his shoulder back in.

02:34:33.000 I thought it was the elbow.

02:34:34.000 Well, it was the elbow.

02:34:36.000 It says it's not the elbow.

02:34:37.000 It was his shoulder.

02:34:38.000 It's his elbow as well, though.

02:34:41.000 It's got to be.

02:34:42.000 That's weird.

02:34:42.000 Yeah, a follow-up post said there was no ligament damage, but I was trying to find updated.

02:34:47.000 So even if there's no ligament damage, there could be cartilage damage.

02:34:50.000 There could be a lot of other shit.

02:34:50.000 Oh, yeah.

02:34:52.000 Anytime something bends the way it's not supposed to, soft tissue damage.

02:34:55.000 His weight and Joshua Van's weight all on one arm posted, and that arm gives out.

02:35:01.000 But damn, dude, when he fought that Japanese cat, who was that guy?

02:35:06.000 Ran through him.

02:35:07.000 When Pantosha did?

02:35:08.000 Yeah.

02:35:09.000 Like, you just see how good he is.

02:35:11.000 When he fought Kai Carl France, ran through him.

02:35:14.000 I was like, this dude is on fire right now.

02:35:16.000 No, he's good, man.

02:35:17.000 He's on fire.

02:35:18.000 I think Pantoja is one of the best of all time.

02:35:20.000 And dude, not loud, not flashy, quiet.

02:35:23.000 He'll walk in the gym, go be in practice, you won't notice him.

02:35:26.000 Just working, always.

02:35:27.000 Just does his work.

02:35:28.000 Just working.

02:35:28.000 Yeah, just fucking focused.

02:35:30.000 Just a soldier.

02:35:31.000 I love to see that, though, man, because like a few years before he was the flyweight champion, he was driving Uber or Uber Eats, like just trying to make him, you know, scrapping to get bills paid.

02:35:43.000 And you see a guy because that's what makes fighting so special, though.

02:35:46.000 You know, like Teddy Atlas has a speech about it, but it's like, where else can you be from any discipline, any creed, anything, any background, and call yourself the champion of the world?

02:35:58.000 So powerful.

02:35:58.000 That's true.

02:35:59.000 On any given night, you can go against the odds and be a busted Douglas or be a Uber East driver and be the world champion, you know, a couple years later.

02:36:07.000 Like, it's just special, man.

02:36:08.000 Fighting combat is special.

02:36:10.000 It is special, and it is the end-all of all sports.

02:36:14.000 Like, if someone shoots a basket and they make a three-pointer on you, you're like, okay, but I could still fuck you up.

02:36:21.000 You know, no one says after you fuck them up, yeah, but I could score a basket on you.

02:36:26.000 Dude, it's the end of all sports.

02:36:26.000 No one cares.

02:36:28.000 The end of all everything.

02:36:30.000 The best middle school comeback.

02:36:31.000 Somebody can be.

02:36:32.000 Can't beat me, though.

02:36:33.000 Yeah.

02:36:33.000 Can't beat me, though.

02:36:34.000 That was like they come back for anything.

02:36:35.000 Can't beat me, though.

02:36:36.000 Like, that's the top of the line.

02:36:38.000 The top challenge.

02:36:39.000 Exactly.

02:36:39.000 The top challenge.

02:36:40.000 Doesn't matter if you're better at backgammon.

02:36:42.000 Right.

02:36:43.000 Yeah, you dunked on me, but I'll beat your ass.

02:36:45.000 Yeah, beating someone's ass is the that's the end goal.

02:36:48.000 That's what all sports aspire to be.

02:36:50.000 Yeah.

02:36:51.000 Is combat sports.

02:36:53.000 So do you have plans for stuff you want to do outside of fighting now?

02:36:57.000 Like now that you're retired and now you're settling in?

02:37:01.000 Be a good dad, be a good husband.

02:37:03.000 That's my goals always.

02:37:05.000 But I have a few other businesses, you know, I've had for years.

02:37:09.000 I got a documentary.

02:37:10.000 You got a great hot sauce.

02:37:11.000 Got a great hot sauce.

02:37:12.000 That hot sauce is legit.

02:37:13.000 I'm good.

02:37:14.000 Thank you, man.

02:37:15.000 It's legit.

02:37:16.000 Poirier's Louisiana style hot sauce.

02:37:17.000 It's not white label.

02:37:18.000 We made this.

02:37:19.000 We developed it.

02:37:20.000 It's good, dude.

02:37:20.000 It's very good.

02:37:21.000 Thank you.

02:37:21.000 I'm proud of it.

02:37:22.000 I'm proud of it.

02:37:22.000 Yeah, when you sent it to me, I was like, okay, I'll try it.

02:37:24.000 I'm like, oh, shit.

02:37:26.000 It's legit.

02:37:27.000 Vinegar-based cayenne fire.

02:37:27.000 Vinegar-based.

02:37:29.000 Very good.

02:37:29.000 Very good hot sauce.

02:37:30.000 Thank you, man.

02:37:31.000 I put a little celery in there.

02:37:32.000 You can tell you put some work into that.

02:37:34.000 Yeah, I didn't want it to be.

02:37:35.000 There's so many vinegar-based hot sauces on the shelf.

02:37:38.000 You get lost in that.

02:37:39.000 And the shelf space is so hard to get.

02:37:41.000 I'm learning all this business stuff as I move forward, you know.

02:37:44.000 And now that I'm done fighting, I get to really see where the hot sauce is because every fight, every promotion, I got to talk about it.

02:37:50.000 And sales always around every fight were great.

02:37:53.000 But now we're going to level off and see what kind of stride we have.

02:37:56.000 Well, it's legit, man.

02:37:57.000 I recommend it highly.

02:37:59.000 Thank you, man.

02:37:59.000 It's very good.

02:38:00.000 Besides that, I have a few businesses in Lafayette, and I'm really getting excited.

02:38:05.000 I have a documentary coming out this year.

02:38:07.000 The same guys who made my first documentary, Fightville.

02:38:10.000 I don't know if you've seen it.

02:38:11.000 It came out in 2011.

02:38:13.000 It was on Netflix.

02:38:14.000 Actually, did a premiere here at South by Southwest.

02:38:17.000 Showtime picked it up.

02:38:19.000 But the same company that did that, Pepper and Bones, is doing my retirement documentary.

02:38:24.000 So they did the whole last training camp filmed.

02:38:27.000 They live in Germany.

02:38:28.000 So they would fly down, stay in camp.

02:38:31.000 They did the whole fight week in New Orleans.

02:38:33.000 Then they came back down for Thanksgiving, this recent Thanksgiving, and finished up the documentary.

02:38:39.000 And they have hundreds of hours of footage unreleased from when I was 17, 18 years old.

02:38:43.000 Whoa.

02:38:44.000 So they got the whole journey.

02:38:46.000 Whoa.

02:38:47.000 Just randomly, this guy was filming a war veteran who turned, he was doing a, him and his wife are documentary makers, and they were following this guy who just got back from the Middle East, and he happened to be a fighter.

02:39:02.000 And I met the guy at a fight show I fought on.

02:39:04.000 He was filming the other guy for a war film.

02:39:06.000 Started talking.

02:39:07.000 Then he just, man, I'm interested in you.

02:39:09.000 Let me start.

02:39:09.000 Started filming me.

02:39:10.000 And then, dude, now I have all this hundreds of hours of footage of me fighting amateur, small shows, behind the scenes at my house, like as a kid.

02:39:18.000 Oh, that's incredible.

02:39:19.000 Yeah, so we're going to put it all into this documentary.

02:39:21.000 Dude, that's awesome.

02:39:22.000 That's amazing.

02:39:23.000 Well, listen, brother, whatever you do, you know, if you put the same energy that you put into becoming a great fighter, you'll be great at anything you do.

02:39:31.000 That's just the beautiful thing about doing the most difficult thing is everything else is definitely going to be easier.

02:39:37.000 I want to go back to the difficult thing.

02:39:39.000 I don't want the easy path, man.

02:39:40.000 It's so hard to let it go, right?

02:39:42.000 It's hard to be as like, like I tell my wife, I say this a lot, be a civilian, to go from fight life every day for so long to being a civilian.

02:39:51.000 It's like I'm relearning who I am.

02:39:53.000 Maybe a couple boxing matches.

02:39:55.000 Maybe the UFC will let you out.

02:39:56.000 I would love to.

02:39:57.000 Do you think the UFC will let you out of contract, do some boxing matches?

02:40:00.000 Nope, I don't think so.

02:40:01.000 Unless the pot was big enough to wear, I don't think so.

02:40:04.000 Oh, they should.

02:40:05.000 But I'm not fucking fighting Floyd Mayweather.

02:40:07.000 The pot ain't going to be big enough.

02:40:08.000 Right.

02:40:09.000 You know?

02:40:10.000 Because there was a Russian company that wanted me and Nate to box.

02:40:13.000 Oh.

02:40:13.000 And the UFC said no.

02:40:15.000 I didn't even bring it to him.

02:40:16.000 Ariel Jawani hit me up and said, hey, any interest in this?

02:40:19.000 I have interest, but I didn't want to bring it to Hunter and Dana.

02:40:21.000 I didn't want to ask him.

02:40:23.000 Give it a try.

02:40:24.000 Yeah.

02:40:25.000 Give it a try.

02:40:26.000 See what happens after this.

02:40:27.000 I tried to do the benefit.

02:40:28.000 I tried to, let's do it in Zoofoo boxing.

02:40:30.000 Yeah, that's silly that they don't want to do any crossovers, but I get it.

02:40:34.000 Dude, I don't know if I want any more head trauma either, Joe.

02:40:36.000 Yeah, I want to raise my son.

02:40:36.000 Yeah.

02:40:38.000 That's true, too.

02:40:39.000 That's true, too.

02:40:40.000 I have 50-something fights.

02:40:42.000 That's true, too.

02:40:42.000 Right.

02:40:43.000 Maybe just let it go.

02:40:45.000 It'll never be gone.

02:40:48.000 Keep it in the back of your head.

02:40:49.000 Just work out.

02:40:50.000 It'll never be gone.

02:40:52.000 I want to take care of my head.

02:40:53.000 I'm never going to stop.

02:40:54.000 And I hope William's there tonight.

02:40:55.000 Yeah, he'll be there tonight for sure.

02:40:57.000 I didn't message him.

02:40:58.000 Oh, he was there.

02:40:59.000 William Montgomery.

02:41:00.000 Shout out to William.

02:41:01.000 I didn't even catch that you were saying that when you were jumping guillotine.

02:41:04.000 I'm never going to stop.

02:41:05.000 I didn't realize.

02:41:06.000 And then everybody online told me, oh, he's doing William Montgomery.

02:41:10.000 I was like, oh, my God.

02:41:12.000 How did I miss that?

02:41:13.000 I was 100% doing William Montgomery.

02:41:16.000 But also, I give you the benefit of the doubt, dude.

02:41:18.000 My delivery was kind of bad.

02:41:19.000 It wasn't the exact.

02:41:20.000 I was just so focused.

02:41:22.000 When I'm doing post-fight interviews, I'm just always so focused in trying to get everything out of the fighter that they want to say.

02:41:30.000 All I'm thinking of is what can I ask him that can help them better express themselves after this big victory.

02:41:35.000 Yeah.

02:41:36.000 You know, so it's like.

02:41:37.000 I was the underdog and Mike, every time I went to the corner, he's like, stop jumping guillotines.

02:41:42.000 You're giving up takedowns.

02:41:42.000 You're not going to get, cut it out.

02:41:44.000 Don't do it.

02:41:44.000 I'm like, was that the Ben Wallace underneath?

02:41:46.000 Never gonna stop.

02:41:47.000 That was a great victory, too, man.

02:41:47.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:41:49.000 Yeah, with the streak he's on, this aging, aging well, aging well, man.

02:41:49.000 That was a good one.

02:41:53.000 Very well.

02:41:54.000 Listen, brother, you're an all-time great.

02:41:56.000 It's an honor.

02:41:57.000 So cool to have you here again.

02:41:59.000 And congratulations on an amazing career.

02:41:59.000 Thank you for having me.

02:42:02.000 Thank you, gentlemen.

02:42:03.000 And like I said, you're going to kill it with whatever you do, whatever you do in life.

02:42:07.000 Try to be copy.

02:42:08.000 I'm going to try to do the desk work and see where that goes.

02:42:10.000 Yes.

02:42:10.000 And buy his hot sauce.

02:42:11.000 It's legit.

02:42:12.000 You heard?

02:42:13.000 Thanks, brother.

02:42:13.000 All right.

02:42:14.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - March 17, 2026

JRE MMA Show #176 with Dustin Poirier

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Summary

Transcript