Pat Miletic was a pioneer in the early days of mixed martial arts. He was one of the first fighters to get a shot at the light heavyweight title, and he was the first to take a swing at the middleweight title. Pat Miletic has been around the game for a long time, and has been a part of some of the biggest fights in the history of the sport. In this episode, Pat talks about his early days in the sport, how he got his start in MMA, and why he thinks headbutts are not as bad as you think they are. He also talks about the dangers of headbutting someone you're training for a fight and why you shouldn't even care if you get hit in the head with a punch to the head by someone you re training to be a better martial artist than you are right now. Enjoy this episode and remember to share it with a friend or family member who needs to hear this! Tweet me and let us know what you thought of this episode! Timestamps: 3:00 - Pat's first UFC fight 4:30 - The first time he got a shot in the face 5:40 - Why you should care about your head 6:15 - Why he thinks a punch is better than a headbutt 7:00 8:20 - Headbutting is not a bad thing 9:30 Headbutts aren t dangerous 11:40 12:00 -- Why you need to be more than a punch 13:30 -- What are you training for? 15:00 | Should you do it? 16: Should you hit someone else with your head? 17: What s your headbutt? 18:40 -- Should you be training for someone else's face? 19:20 -- How do you train for your head butts? 21:10 -- What is your headbutted? 22:00 Is it a legit technique? 23:00 Should you train into a better headbutt ? 25: Is it okay to slam your forehead into someone else s headbutt your head into your forehead? 26: Does it really matter? 27:00 Do you have to hit someone's headbutt my head or your face with your forehead or your head or my head but it's not a legit headbutt?? 28:00 Does it matter if it s not legit?
00:00:33.000And when you talk about guys who have been around, like, you were one of the real pioneers of MMA. You know, it's one of the reasons why I really wanted to have you in here.
00:00:42.000I remember back when you were fighting.
00:00:43.000I remember back when you fought Matt Hume, and what was that like?
00:01:03.000Yeah, and he was still obviously pretty tough back then, still pretty mobile.
00:01:07.000It was not a fun fight, I can tell you, carrying his weight around for 30 minutes, but it was tough.
00:01:11.000But Matt Hume is the guy that made me realize that I wasn't a fighter yet, because I was 15-0, I think I was ranked fourth in the world.
00:01:18.000I fought Matt, ragdolled him for basically the whole first round, threw him around like a ragdoll, but he was just biding his time and waiting, and he caught me with some knees and damaged my nose.
00:01:31.000Yeah, the referee and the doctor stopped the fight because back then it was very controversial.
00:01:34.000They didn't want a guy with a crushed nose or whatever.
00:02:08.000It's like, maybe somebody saw those movies where you, like, remember in a movie, a guy would hit the bottom of a guy's nose and drive the bone up into his brain?
00:02:16.000It's like Mike Tyson talking about it, right?
00:02:41.000To keep the sport legal in the state that I was scheduled to fight in.
00:02:44.000So think of how stressful it is to train for a fight, stay healthy, try and pay your bills, do all the stuff you're doing, And at the same time, I'm debating politicians in that state who are trying to pass a bill to ban the sport that I'm scheduled to fight in that state.
00:04:49.000But without that technique, it's sort of like, when I... When I realized that Taekwondo was very limited was when I started working out with kickboxers.
00:04:58.000And I started getting punched in the face.
00:06:45.000Those guys who have a good front leg, like that karate style, point fighting style, that they're used to blitzing in with that good front leg, very hard to gauge that distance.
00:07:27.000I'm not there to be the most exciting fighter.
00:07:30.000That was my mentality, because I fought totally different Before I got to the UFC, I was just a psychopath and go out and just go 100 miles an hour until the guy was done.
00:07:40.000But once you get in the UFC, then it's, okay, we can cut you if you lose.
00:07:44.000It's like, okay, now I've got to change the way I fight.
00:08:09.000And you do a lot of commentary yourself.
00:08:11.000In these smaller shows, I'd imagine sometimes it's even worse.
00:08:15.000I mean, we've gotten in trouble to the point where we had people come to us and go, look, the promoters from different organizations, when there was really, really bad decisions, you know, when I was working with Michael Ciavello especially, we were brutal on the athletic commissions.
00:08:53.000I remember the first time I witnessed it, as far as a coach, when my IFL team was fighting in Texas.
00:08:58.000We were fighting, I think, Boss's team.
00:09:01.000And I looked at the judges and all of them, one of them had a bouffant hairdo, an old lady, and then two old guys with white hair.
00:09:09.000And I went back to the locker room and I go, guys, You can't let this go to the judges.
00:09:14.000They're one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel.
00:09:17.000They know nothing about what they're watching.
00:09:19.000We are in deep shit if we can't do it.
00:09:21.000Well, I think boxing is a very complicated art, and I think it's a very difficult thing to score, but it's way more easy to score than martial arts are.
00:09:34.000When a fight goes to the ground, I mean, I have a friend who's a judge who literally said to me in the middle of a fight, one of the female judges, or referees rather, judges, one of the female judges turned to him and go, what is he doing?
00:12:57.000You know, my problem with it, though, is that there's referees that separate fighters when they're working real hard against the cage.
00:13:03.000And I think, again, it's guys who don't understand.
00:13:06.000They don't understand how difficult this is.
00:13:08.000When you have one guy who's trying to take the other guy down, the other guy's trying to defend, they're landing shots in between, trying to open up space, and then the referee will say, keep working.
00:13:29.000And if they did train, it was a long fucking time ago.
00:13:32.000A lot of the guys going in there with big fat guts and they just...
00:13:35.000How many times have you called fights in all the years you've been calling fights and been saying, he's out, he's out, he's out, stop the fight, stop the fight, stop the fight?
00:13:43.000I wonder if you're so close to it that you don't see it as well.
00:17:07.000But the thing with the old-timers that taught me in K1 and Muay Thai was you take those metal cups and you take sheet metal screws from the inside out, and you put the sheet metal screws through and then back them back out so there's raised edges everywhere on it, right?
00:17:47.000It seems a little bit like a little cheating.
00:17:50.000Yeah, I... There was a couple other guys that did that back in the day, especially the Chicago circuit, because I was fighting kickboxing in Chicago a lot.
00:17:59.000Dude, they would do K1 rules, Muay Thai, and then I started in the PKC style originally, and I hated it because it was, you know, the light tree, like the dragsters.
00:18:09.000The old PKC was you get one kick in, one light lights.
00:19:00.000It was illegal to kick below the waist, and it was illegal to punch in the face.
00:19:04.000So it was great for learning dexterity of the legs, but the moment I started training with Thai guys, and I got kicked once, just once, I went, oh!
00:21:25.000And they, because of gambling and because they had all those fights, they just figured out a totally different method of training, a totally different method of fighting.
00:21:35.000When you think about the history of Thai fighting between the Laotians and the Thais during times of peace, the soldiers would fight each other and all that sort of stuff.
00:21:45.000Just a bunch of scary people, and they're the nicest people in the world.
00:22:47.000And that's one of the things that I really like Lion Fight above a lot of the other kickboxing organizations is they let those guys work in the clinch and elbows in the clinch.
00:22:57.000Again, like we were saying about headbutts, these elements are very effective.
00:23:37.000But it's also an advantage for the wrestlers in that a guy's not going to be able to put his back up against the cage and get back up again.
00:26:00.000They were training down there, getting used to the altitude, and Antoine walked into the gym, and he started sparring with three-time world champions and beating the shit out of all of them.
00:26:07.000And they go, dude, you need to back off.
00:26:50.000But the thing is, you can't, and I say it a million times, I've said it for years, you can't become a race car driver by going down the highway at 55. You just don't have the reaction time.
00:26:59.000You're not used to that high speed, that high endurance, everything else that goes on.
00:27:04.000You have to get used to that and everything slows down eventually, right?
00:27:07.000With experience and time, things slow down for you.
00:27:10.000I can remember when I first started fighting kickboxing and everything was like a tunnel this big.
00:27:14.000And all I could hear was me breathing.
00:27:29.000And you've experienced that with everything you've done, right?
00:27:31.000Yeah, you just become more accustomed to it and then you become more relaxed.
00:27:35.000But I wonder, like, is there a way to keep the speed but at least take something off the shots?
00:27:42.000Well, that's the thing is where you put the shin pads on, the headgear, the 16-ounce gloves, you go at high speed, you go hard, you hit takedowns hard, all that sort of stuff.
00:28:31.000You've got to think about who came out of your gym.
00:28:33.000Matt Hughes, Robbie Lawler, I mean, Jens Pulver, Tim Sylvia, and then a host of other killers that people just forgot.
00:28:41.000You know, we had a lot of people Obviously that would come and train with us, Rich Franklin, Dave Manet, who was an 85-pound champ for a while.
00:28:49.000He was one of the best martial artists I've ever seen.
00:28:54.000Trained with Greg Nelson for a good portion of his career, obviously.
00:28:58.000I think we had 92 people made it to televised careers, and I think 30 or so made it to the UFC. That's pretty impressive.
00:29:04.000So it's, you know, when I added it all up, somebody asked me to do that, and I added it all up, and I went through all the televised cards that I remembered.
00:29:12.000It was, I think, 92 people, and I thought, you know, it's pretty impressive.
00:30:50.000Yeah, and it was a lot of professional athletes who were suffering from inflammation and pain and getting beat up and stuff were all taking it, and it was, yeah, it was wrecking people.
00:31:07.000I mean, the lines then had their crazy, the initiation that they would do, where they would run you through this insane gauntlet that was similar to what I guess Ken had to go through in Japan.
00:32:26.000To be able to hang in the Iowa wrestling room during the summer with the Hawk Club guys who are absolute beasts and friggin' throw you around and bounce you off walls.
00:32:36.000And be able to do all that stuff and then understand how to put it all together.
00:32:40.000And I think that that, you know, at least enabled me to explain grappling and wrestling to a striker from a striker standpoint and vice versa.
00:32:51.000So that was understanding angles from a striking standpoint, from a wrestling standpoint, and being able to explain it and understand people.
00:32:58.000And then you've got to read people, you know, their personality.
00:33:02.000You've got to coach everybody different.
00:33:03.000You can't coach everybody the same way.
00:33:06.000Some people want to get screamed at, and some people want to pat on the back and a hug.
00:33:13.000When you were putting together, when you were training fighters, you first started off, when you first started doing it, you were still fighting.
00:33:20.000And you still had a couple of fights along the way.
00:33:24.000But when you were putting together, like, training, say if you were training a fighter for a big fight in the UFC, How did you put together their camp?
00:33:32.000Did you leave it up to them in some ways?
00:33:35.000Did you just have them attend regular group training sessions?
00:33:39.000Did you give them individualized attention?
00:33:41.000I would give them individual attention, definitely.
00:33:45.000I had to kind of figure out everybody's body was different, how to find that balance between aerobic and anaerobic endurance.
00:33:53.000You know, some people needed more of one or the other.
00:33:56.000And then they'd come to team training.
00:33:58.000And everybody, you know, you got 40 guys in the room who are all a bunch of killers.
00:36:12.000You understand how to destroy somebody, control position, beat them up, and hit power submissions, finesse submissions, all that different stuff.
00:36:20.000And when Hughes was in his prime, I remember when he first...
00:39:04.000Even identical twins, they don't necessarily think identically.
00:39:09.000Matt was a real freak and a real important figure in the history of MMA. You've got to think, 1993 it all starts, and then from then on it's been sort of this learning experience, trying to figure out what works and what doesn't work.
00:39:24.000In my opinion, Matt is one of the big pieces to that puzzle.
00:39:28.000Because we had had some powerful wrestlers, of course, you had Coleman and so many other guys, and they were basically all about ground and pound.
00:39:35.000I mean, the only time Coleman got a submission to the UFC was when he fucking headlocked Dan Severin.
00:40:43.000But he was the guy that, after I fought Lindland, when I got kicked out of my weight division, when the UFC goes, you've got to move up weight division, I went...
00:40:52.000Why'd they tell you you have to move up?
00:40:53.000They go, you've trained yourself out of a spot.
00:40:56.000You have Jason Black, Rob Lawler, and Matt Hughes all at 170. They're all ranked, I think, at the time, top 10 in the world.
00:41:06.000And I had done my comeback fight after losing the title to Carlos, knocked out Shoney Carter, so in my contract it said that I had an automatic rematch clause, right?
00:42:32.000But Russ grabbed the, he was in Dave's guard, and he grabbed his foot and his shinbone and went like this and was going to just break his foot off.
00:43:34.000Like, when guys would flatten out, when you'd see a 290-pound man panic, like, lay down flat on his stomach and try to flatten out and do everything they can to keep from getting launched, and he would pick them up like a half-empty sack of potatoes and fucking slam them.
00:44:50.000I mean, that guy, that giant dude on the bottom, probably never had anybody ragdom like that before.
00:44:57.000And it was also like the way he would work out.
00:44:59.000When you see some of the shit that he would do, like some of his kettlebell workouts and shield casts that he would do with club bells and steel plates and shit, he was all about movement.
00:46:01.000Well, he was raised in the Turner Halls in Davenport, Iowa.
00:46:04.000And that's where he learned functional fitness.
00:46:06.000And the Turner Halls were brought by the Germans here because the The Germans used Turner Halls back in Germany to train a generation to become warriors to protect the nation.
00:46:15.000And that's where that mentality came from.
00:46:16.000So everything they did was cargo nets, pommel horses, Indian clubs, heavy kettlebells, all kinds of crazy just functional fitness stuff.
00:46:35.000They were doing a lot of the ring stuff and power, you know, being able to do iron crosses, all that sort of stuff.
00:46:39.000That's the way they raised their kids.
00:46:41.000So he was, at the time, I think and still is, one of the first and foremost guys on functional fitness.
00:46:46.000He was the guy that taught me how to train upside down with gravity boots.
00:46:49.000Doing all kinds of crazy stuff with medicine balls and kettle bells and bands and everything else you could do standing up, you could do upside down.
00:48:24.000Besides one time in a huge fight where a dude hit me on the side of the head with a brick and I saw it last second and I at least rolled with it.
00:48:30.000And that didn't give you a concussion?
00:48:32.000It was a hip-hop night at the nightclub I was bouncing at.
00:48:39.000And the Illinois gangbangers and the Iowa gangbangers started going at it.
00:48:42.000And I tried breaking it up and they all attacked me.
00:48:46.000So that's when I, everybody was wearing, it was wintertime, so I was choking people.
00:48:49.000A guy got me in a headlock and I was grabbing people by their coat lapels and I put my head in between his head and his head and I'd choke him unconscious.
00:48:56.000I'd find a new coat and I was working my way backwards out the front door and finally snuck out of the headlock, put him in a rear choke, went backwards out the door.
00:49:11.000Last second I see this coming at the side of my head and I duck and it bounces off my head and this dude goes yeah like I was gonna go down and I turned and I looked at him and rifled him with the right hand and knocked him out and then the next thing you know there's just dogs diving into the crowd.
00:57:51.000And then we got to where the sheep would always escape another farm and come on to the lawn of the college.
00:57:57.000And Mike Wolfe and I got in trouble one day.
00:58:00.000We'd take these rams and we'd smack them in the forehead, palm them in the forehead to get them to jump up on their back legs and try and smash us.
00:58:06.000And then we'd sidestep them and headlock them and throw them and stuff.
00:58:10.000That's what we were doing for fun back then.
00:58:12.000So, Mike Wolf, one of the ladies that worked in the cafeteria saw us doing it.
00:58:19.000And she goes, you boys leave those animals alone.
00:59:51.000But then the other bikers heard the commotion, and I came out of there, and they all started beating me with pool cues, and I was fighting my way out of there.
01:00:57.000If someone actually thought they were a tough guy, and they talked to those tough guys, it's like, well, we've got to show you something.
01:01:02.000Because you're going through this life with this delusional perspective.
01:01:06.000Lou and Ed Bannock and guys like that.
01:01:09.000Just King Mueller, back in those days, some very, very scary wrestlers.
01:01:13.000I don't think people truly understand the difference between them and regular human beings.
01:01:17.000I don't think they've ever experienced it.
01:01:19.000I think you have to lock up with them to experience it.
01:01:23.000The explosiveness, the tendon strength, just the power, the sheer violence that those guys can bring in a short burst of energy.
01:01:32.000Until you get used to it, and you see it all the time in fighting, right?
01:01:35.000A guy who's never trained with guys at that level of athleticism suddenly find themselves getting mauled by a superior human being going, holy sh- I never had any idea a human like this even existed.
01:02:12.000It's just this next level athleticism, next level strength, next level technique, and then also just being forged in the competition of that Cuban wrestling program.
01:02:24.000Did you see the podcast I had with him last week?
01:05:01.000Especially now with the leg lock game.
01:05:03.000With the leg lock game, it seems like strength is less of a factor.
01:05:06.000You know, when guys are isolating legs, and you're constantly defending against that, and whatever strength that you do have in your back, in your core, in your upper body, you're not really getting a chance to utilize it.
01:05:16.000You're just trying to defend if you don't understand the positions, and they get deep, they get a couple steps in on you, and you're like, phew, you know, it doesn't take a strong guy.
01:08:20.000But I can see how people get that way because I was a guy who...
01:08:24.000Not to go off on a tangent, but I think it's fun to think about in 1971 when I was a young boy standing in line in Albia, Iowa with my grandma and my mom when the farm collapse was happening, when Nixon took us off the gold standard, right?
01:08:37.000Shit fell apart for the farmers right away, and my grandma was one of the first people in line to get her money out of the Farmers National Bank in Albia, Iowa.
01:10:43.000So he knows how to dial into them, call up, know the coordinates to turn the dish towards, and lock onto a percentage of the satellite receptor to get it beamed back down, all that sort of stuff.
01:10:54.000So he was teaching my daughter how all that stuff was done, and it was the first time I'd ever seen it.
01:10:58.000I was like, this is pretty amazing stuff.
01:11:00.000But yeah, you can see the curvature of the Earth and how the satellites are set across the horizon, right?
01:11:10.000If someone has no interruption, and they put together a video, and that video, they're articulate, and they sound calm, they use big words, and they show you images that they're claiming show that the Earth is flat, that there's an ice wall outside Antarctica, and that the government won't let you go there, they start saying all these things.
01:11:30.000If there's no one there, you know, like, Neil deGrasse Tyson type guy there, he goes, hey, hey, hey, no.
01:12:31.000And I was lucky to train a lot of law enforcement and then military, high-level military, and get connected to intel guys who go, Pat, we need to talk.
01:12:43.000As far as, like, what were you completely off about?
01:12:45.000Well, I can tell you what I was right about when I called up my buddy and I go, hey, four years ago, whatever it was, four and a half years ago, I go, We're funding ISIS, aren't we?
01:13:28.000But ISIS was just, that's some weird shit.
01:13:32.000When you have a 50,000-man army just appear out of nowhere with professional cameramen and editors and producers and directors making the high-level films that they were putting out, where it's every three seconds they're cutting different angles, professionally put together films of people being burned, where it's every three seconds they're cutting different angles, professionally put together films of people being This is too weird.
01:13:54.000You know what people stop talking about?
01:13:55.000Do you remember when they blamed Benghazi on some bullshit movie?
01:14:22.000P-O-R-O-N-T-A. His last name is Paranto.
01:14:26.000But he's a former SEAL. There were several SEALs, obviously, that ran to try and help the Ambassador and some of the other guys.
01:14:33.000Paranto lived through it, but when he talks about it, they're moving massive amounts of weapons through Libya, into Syria, into other places in the Middle East, right?
01:15:53.000Arsenal weapons manufacturer, and she exposed the ISIS fighters, took her to their weapons caches, and there was massive amounts of artillery rounds, depleted uranium stuff, small arms stuff, and it was all arsenal weapons, Bulgarian weapons, right?
01:16:12.000Now at the same time, Silkway Airlines, who is an Azerbaijani airline, their manifests got exposed by Bulgarian Anonymous with manifests of all the white phosphorus weapons, the depleted uranium, artillery rounds, all these shipments, massive shipments going into Turkey, going into Libya, going into the Ukraine, right?
01:16:32.000Where a bunch of shit was going down there.
01:16:33.000And every one of those places, who showed up to broker the deals?
01:16:41.000And look, we can't prove it, but there's people telling me that potentially there's an offshore company that owns a big percentage of arsenal weapons manufacturing in Bulgaria, right?
01:17:09.000And that these people are probably used to operating in a certain way that they've been doing for decades, and now they're having to adjust.
01:18:32.000Smash and grab is me as somebody who's very powerful in government, going after an industry, crushing it, ruining its stock, and then my buddies buy the company.
01:19:49.000We were just talking about this recently, about how half of what it is to be president is to get yourself into a position where after you're out, you can make these crazy speeches for these bankers.
01:20:00.000I mean, it's almost like a retirement policy.
01:20:02.000Man, I tell you what, there was a time when a good friend of mine, who was an agent for me at the time, got me involved because of all the years in MMA and martial arts, I'd met people from all over the world who had eventually moved into positions of power.
01:20:15.000In government or cities or this or that.
01:20:18.000And so they said, we want you to help us get our foot in the door to sell waste-to-energy projects.
01:20:24.000So it was basically a facility that burns anything garbage.
01:20:28.000I mean, you can burn tires in the thing at low oxygen levels, so the emissions are very low, but it generates electricity.
01:20:34.000And in Europe, it was everybody from the city, province, that country, and the European Union, everybody wanted a piece of the projects.
01:20:44.000That's just the way they do business in Europe and South America and other places like that.
01:20:49.000They have to have a different model for it here, for the corruption.
01:20:52.000They just do things differently here, and that's just the way it is.
01:20:55.000They've made adjustments, and either way, they're going to find their way around it.
01:20:58.000Yeah, the idea that there's no corruption is ridiculous, right?
01:22:36.000I wonder how many people are actually reading it.
01:22:38.000I feel like they think that there's always going to be a certain amount of that stuff out there, and they just tolerate it, and they just, as long as it's not really fucking up their business, because it's not.
01:22:47.000The politicians are still allowing it.
01:22:52.000It makes you wonder, like, if Hillary had actually gotten into the White House, And she faced the same scrutiny that Trump is facing right now over the Russian program.
01:22:59.000Which we know none of this would be uncovered had she won.
01:23:09.000Strzok and Page and Comey and all these people of going out of their way to try and derail Trump to get these FISA court surveillance warrants to spy on a president-elect and then a sitting president?
01:23:26.000At what point are people not charged with treason for that?
01:23:31.000They were doing this spying before he ever won the presidency.
01:23:38.000Don't you think that if he was doing something wrong with the Russians, they would have friggin' made it mainstream news and busted him for it?
01:23:45.000Yeah, there's for sure some dummies in his staff that made some inappropriate meetings and had some...
01:23:50.000I mean, they definitely had some intentions.
01:23:55.000I mean, if you win the presidency, I'm gonna send whoever is underneath me, if I'm the president, We have to have meetings with diplomats from other countries to make the transition.
01:24:23.000If they had something, it would be out there.
01:24:25.000It's that projection and diversion and everything else, because the Podestas were doing lobbying for the biggest friggin' Russian bank in the world.
01:25:44.000So we, at the end of it, He asked me, I forget what the questions were, but after we were done, I go, hey, I've always wanted to do this podcast, and I want to call it The Conspiracy Farm, and I want to talk about geopolitical domestic policy stuff, and he goes, I love it, man.
01:26:35.000But if I had a guess, the way he was describing things is very similar to the way people describe things when they've experienced excessive head trauma.
01:28:27.000Well, that's why it's so impressive that you, with your long fight career, you kickboxed, you boxed, you had a lot of MMA fights.
01:28:33.000I think I learned early on with kickboxing and boxing, I looked at the older guys and listened to them talk and went, I don't want to be that guy.
01:28:40.000So I started paying attention to defense.
01:28:42.000I started watching films on great boxers with great defense, footwork, head movement, all that sort of stuff, and just...
01:29:19.000There was a time where someone claimed that you had neck surgery and you didn't.
01:29:24.000Like a doctor said something about it.
01:29:26.000I was training for a fight with Frank Trigg outside of the UFC. It was the first round warming up and I got hit with a left hook and my neck crunched.
01:29:35.000And my left arm dropped and it wouldn't work anymore.
01:31:36.000No, well that, but he put me in weird positions on a table on my side, and they would block certain, they would put pressure points to stop certain nerves from working, all this other stuff, and tell me to move certain parts of my body.
01:32:33.000You know, long enough when the disc is destroyed and dissolves and then it just all grows together, so my vertebrae grew together on their own.
01:34:47.000But with fights, I have a particularly good memory.
01:34:50.000Everything to me, because of fighting for all those years, coaching for all those years, and doing commentary for all those years, it's one big mess of just fights.
01:34:58.000Like, I'll remember the Hughes-Trigg fights forever.
01:36:26.000Like, maybe a little too big for 55 and too small for 70. Yeah.
01:36:32.000I think there's been a few guys like that.
01:36:33.000That were like, you know, real world-class fighters, but the reality of those 70s is you're dealing with guys that are cutting from 205 and up, and the reality of the 55s is that, like, that's a fucking horrible strain for your body.
01:37:47.000But if he headbutts me for whatever reason and I don't win the fight and I lose that money, I lose my house, oh my god, I start to panic, right?
01:37:54.000And when you're cutting weight like that, everything's magnified a hundred times.
01:38:08.000And by the time it was time to weigh in, I went and knocked on Matt Hughes and Jen's pulver's door, and I go, hey man, I'm in some serious trouble right now.
01:38:16.000Because I sucked on ice cubes all night, and I gained like two pounds or whatever.
01:38:51.000There was a bunch of stuff going wrong with my body.
01:38:53.000So I called up Monty Cox in his room, and I go, you've got to get somebody to take me to the hospital to get IVs, or this shit's not happening.
01:39:00.000He goes, alright, I'm sending Tom Sauer, right?
01:39:34.000Now imagine the kind of situation I'm in mentally and physically and I stop and I put my hand on his chest and I go, Tom, you cannot go in here with me.
01:39:41.000Oh my god, you're gonna yell the n-word a million times.
01:40:01.000So we walk in, we go up to the nurse at the reception desk, and he goes, hey, he goes, my friend, Click, click, click, N-word, N-word, N-word.
01:41:49.000You know, there came a time where I had to leave college to go and take care of my ailing mother and had to work three jobs and realized sitting in a basement that I was raised in, every time it rained, it flooded.
01:42:11.000And I loaded a 9mm pistol, and I put a round in the chamber, and I put it in my sock drawer, and I said, if I don't want a world title, that gun's going in my mouth, and I'm done.
01:44:38.000I think the rules, like, in reference to guys using performance-enhancing drugs, it's just as critical to keep guys from fighting dehydrated or from being dehydrated.
01:46:13.000The thing is, you see so many of those kind of KOs in MMA. It makes you realize, yeah, Arturo Gatti was just far bigger than him in this fight.
01:48:03.000There's some severe corruption in Brazil and apparently, in this case, most people think that she killed him and that she got away with it.
01:48:26.000Go ahead, tell me about this movie and I'll tell you about this book, rather.
01:48:29.000So El Tegrero was a book about Sasha and Ernst Semmel, two Russians who had engineering degrees, who went to Brazil around 1920, 1921 during the Diamond Rush, right?
01:48:41.000And this is when, ironically, I think, when the Gracie's started learning jujitsu, right?
01:48:56.000So anyway, they are working their way through Brazil and through the Mato Grosso, stopping at ranches and towns, fixing guns, because the Brazilians didn't know how to fix their guns, to pay their way further in as they were getting towards the rivers and all that sort of stuff, and to find diamonds.
01:49:14.000But during all of this, And Sasha Semmel was fighting no-holds-barred fights against Paraglion Strongman and all this sort of stuff in the ring.
01:49:25.000And then he became a guy who was what's called a tegrero, a guy who can use a spear and kill one of the big cats in the jungles back then that was killing the cattle, killing the ranch hands, all this sort of stuff.
01:50:12.000So this guy taught him, though, he watched this guy drunk kill a 400-pound cat with a spear.
01:50:17.000And then he taught him how they would sit on their paws, whether they were going high to attack you, whether they were coming low, how to position the spear, all that sort of stuff.
01:50:26.000So, Sasha Semmel became a white guy who killed 33 big cats for ranches, right?
01:50:34.000You couldn't write it any better, but to tell you about the Brazilian mindset, there was a guy in one of the gunsmith, blacksmith shops where they were fixing guns for people.
01:50:45.000That this one Brazilian had an attitude, and Sasha insulted him in front of the friends.
01:50:50.000So this guy, then, once you insult a Brazilian back in those days especially, they have to kill you because you disrespected them so badly in front of their family and friends.
01:50:58.000And they're just hot-blooded people, right?
01:51:01.000You've been around enough Brazilians, they're hot-blooded people.
01:51:03.000Vanderlei Silva, when he loses his temper, it's a pretty scary dude.
01:51:07.000So this guy tracks them for a while, and then they hire a guy that's the sheriff of Pasifundo, who has a necklace of human ears to prove he brings back the ears of the person you paid him to kill, and that's how he got paid, right?
01:51:20.000So he had a necklace of human ears, and he was hunting Sasha and Ernst.
01:51:23.000It's the coolest book you've ever read.
01:52:16.000Yeah, The Lost City of Z is a book that they turned into a movie a couple of years ago about this guy, and it turned out that what he had discovered has now been proven that there was some ancient systems there, some ancient...
01:52:30.000Yeah, civilization, but also irrigation systems, and they've figured out that they had all these roads and stuff because of satellite imagery.
01:54:01.000It was actually driving through Montecito, a real nice neighborhood, and I saw this thing run across the road, and at first I thought it was a coyote, and then I saw the tail, and I went, oh, shit, that's a cat.
01:55:46.000So he was an expert at getting rid of deer, getting rid of coyotes, getting rid of anything off your property, getting rid of raccoons out of your house, whatever, right?
01:55:54.000He's the guy that started trapping when he was 10 years old, right?
01:55:58.000And some of my buddies did that and he was one of them.
01:56:00.000But he became the expert, sold his company to Orkin for a lot of money.
01:56:04.000But he's the first and foremost guy besides one other guy, I think.
01:56:09.000Worldwide that is the expert in trapping coyotes.
01:56:12.000And when he explains it to you, you sit there and go, how smart?
01:56:16.000If there's anything out of place, they never take the same way back to their den ever.
01:56:44.000But he went into great detail about how intelligent these fucking things are, about how Native Americans used to think they were gods, that they were tricksters.
01:57:36.000Well, she was studying to be a doctor of chiropractic at Palmer, which is in Davenport, Iowa.
01:57:42.000And so, you know, the thing is, though, I had eagles, owls, hawks, herds of deer, coyotes, all kinds of crazy stuff running through my yard constantly.
01:57:51.000And that's when I had the mastiff and a shepherd and some other stuff that...
01:57:56.000My mastiff wanted to kill everything that came into my yard.
01:58:42.000Dude, I hit a deer, what was it, a year and a half ago with my F-150, and all it was was his chest hit the front of the quarter panel and scraped down it and destroyed the whole side of my truck.
01:59:00.000The vehicle caught on fire because the moose crushed into the engine compartment and caved in the front of the vehicle, and then it all caught on fire.
01:59:10.000My dad had to friggin' go out to kick the back window out to get out.
01:59:22.000I went on a fishing trip, one of the many fishing trips I went on in Canada with a friend of mine, Mark Lewis.
01:59:27.000And we were in a V-bottom boat, there was three of us, and we were going, the English River system, if you ever want to go fishing in the summer for badass fish, I mean, you'll wear out catching fish up there.
01:59:47.000But we were cutting across the lake, and we got into this bay, and there was a moose swimming across the bay, you know, the huge rack on it and everything else.
01:59:54.000And my buddy Mark goes, pull up next to it.
02:01:22.000The doctor that I told you about, Tyson Cobb, the orthopedic surgeon that fixed Tim's arm, he was a bow hunter who went and got crocodile in Africa, you know, big all-giant game, stuff like that.
02:01:35.000You know, the stuff that he hunted was, I mean, you know, killing a grizzly with a bow is some scary stuff.
02:01:41.000Yeah, that's a real risky proposition.
02:02:22.000And if one of them dies, like if you, I've been black bear hunting before, and if you shoot a black bear and like maybe you shoot it like right before dark and it runs off in the bush and you don't want to go after it, you come back in the morning, bears are eating it.
02:04:49.000This guy had a lure that as you pull it in, as you reeled it in, the paddles, the feet would move, and the muskie would think it's a real duck, and they'd jack them.
02:05:33.000But he was the vice president of the Muskie World Association, and he took me fishing, and he goes, we have tons of muskies that we've radio tagged.
02:05:43.000He goes, but we're not going to use that.
02:06:09.000And he'd hook them through by the dorsal fin.
02:06:12.000We'd go out in the boat, drop the chub straight down, then we'd go back to the island.
02:06:18.000And he had a rod holder, put the pole in there, set the drag reel light, put a bobber at the top of the line so you could see the bobber move if something was taken off with it.
02:06:25.000And we did that four separate times with four lines.
02:06:28.000And then we sat in the boat and ate sandwiches and just talked.
02:06:32.000And then all of a sudden the bobber takes off.
02:06:34.000He goes, all right, I'm going to pull up, you run and grab the pole, jump back in the boat.
02:06:37.000He goes, I'm going to maneuver you and keep you, you have to stay over the top of the fish.
02:06:41.000And with musky, trolling motors scare them, but a regular boat motor idling does not for some reason.
02:06:46.000So I'm learning a ton of stuff from this guy.
02:06:48.000And he goes, we have to, for 25 minutes, you have to let him turn that fish head first and then swallow it.
02:09:06.000Well, all those animals up there, like we're talking about bears, about bears being cannibals and pike being cannibals and the fucking deer 350 pounds.
02:10:05.000No, I agree, but there's nothing to hunt them out there.
02:10:07.000The problem with Australia is that these are invasive species.
02:10:10.000They brought pretty much everything over there.
02:10:12.000So the ranchers brought them there or something for beef?
02:10:14.000Someone brought them there a long time ago.
02:10:16.000New Zealand's the craziest place because New Zealand is essentially, they set it up as a wild game park for rich Europeans a long time ago.
02:10:25.000And so now they have these enormous stags and all these huge animals that live there, but no predators.
02:10:31.000So sometimes they have to thin the herd.
02:10:33.000They have to fly over with helicopters and just gun them down.
02:13:00.000Not to pry, but my guess was he just asked for more money, probably because he had an offer from the UFC. They wouldn't match it, so he took off, whatever.
02:13:08.000Well, they didn't want him leaving for the UFC four years ago when I tried to get him hired.
02:13:12.000And there was like a big hullabaloo and they wound up keeping him.
02:16:02.000I mean, there's part of me that respects the shit out of a guy like Hoist Gracie, still a fucking savage at 50 years of age, ready to throw down with anybody.
02:16:43.000And super experienced with modern, high-level MMA. Whereas Hoist was living in the past.
02:16:50.000And the thing was with that, that was after Rob Lawler, Rory Markham, myself, Tim Sylvia, Gan McGee, Chuck Lydell, all of us were on that movie set in Mexico, that Paul Walker film.
02:18:13.000Like, I can't believe this just happened.
02:18:15.000Standing on the chairs behind them is Oakley Lemon and all the stunt guys going, It was it was but I saw Half that crowd crying.
02:18:27.000Yeah, because they saw a god get destroyed right I mean, that's our hero to I mean right hoises like for martial arts.
02:18:35.000He he was a legitimate hero He was the first guy to win the ultimate fighting championship and the way he did it was like, oh look at this These guys using technique that we didn't even know exist little skinny guy.
02:18:46.000That's just manly people and the thing was with all of that Then the Gracies came back with, Hughes was just a better athlete and used all Jiu Jitsu, Gracie Jiu Jitsu to beat Gracie Jiu Jitsu.
02:19:11.000Almeida was their dog to come and beat Matt.
02:19:14.000So they put in Almeida, who was bigger than Matt.
02:19:17.000You know, he's a big dude for that weight division.
02:19:19.000Well, Matt deliberately hit him with a wrestling front headlock and choked him unconscious.
02:19:23.000Well, it was a position that a lot of jiu-jitsu guys are used to being in there, and they just relax because they're waiting for you to spin to the back.
02:19:28.000But instead of spinning to the back, Matt just cranked that fucker down and shut the lights out.
02:19:33.000When you stuff the head under the armpit and you crank that down and twist, you get choked.
02:22:07.000What other bullshit was in this movie where you're pretending this is a historical recreation of a real national crime that everybody heard about.
02:23:59.000I had a show sold and then they were going to co-brand it with Spartacus and then the lead actor from Spartacus got terminal cancer and they couldn't co-brand them together and that deal fell apart.
02:24:09.000Then another one that I had sold fell apart because of the collapse in 2008 and I was like, dude, I can't win anything.
02:24:18.000If you're an outsider and you're coming in here to try to pitch things, there's so many people they already know that are pitching things.
02:24:23.000You've got to imagine if you're a guy that's a producer or an executive at some sort of a network, you've got people knocking on your door all day long.
02:24:32.000And you're used to quality from certain people or what you want to see.
02:25:48.000And I was much more interested in conspiracy theories before I did that show, but in the six months that I did that show, and all these different people that I interviewed, and all the stuff you saw in the air was just a fraction of the total mass of all the people that I talked to, mostly was bullshit.
02:27:55.000But what we do know is that a bunch of people capitalize on that, which makes it look like a conspiracy.
02:27:59.000And all the intelligence reports that came out before that happened was that the terrorists planned on using planes as missiles to take down buildings.
02:28:26.000John Byrne, who is a professor at a college in my hometown, and he and his family had taken martial arts from me for years, and he one day walked up to me, I think it was 2012?
02:30:32.000Everything else, so I had all these problems, and I figured if I train with these guys, it'll bring me out of this point in life, and it'll change my life, and I'll get back to Pat Milicich of the old.
02:30:43.000Well, I was falling apart worse because of the intensity of the training.
02:32:08.000They worked me up from 3 mile run, 10 mile run, 12 mile, 15, 18, 20, drop back down to a 10 mile run on the weekend.
02:32:18.000They'd always do the long runs on the weekends.
02:32:19.000A lot of times I was doing these runs on no sleep because I'd done a broadcast Friday night.
02:32:24.000Get home the next day on Saturday, have no sleep because, you know, you can finish late and you've got to fly home first thing in the morning is what I always did.
02:32:31.000Operating on no sleep and then starting with a 30 mile run, 35, 45, 50 and then a 75 mile run along with the stuff training during the week that a lot of it I was doing on the road too.
02:32:44.000It's probably the coolest group of people I've been around and David Clark who It's a guy that served as a role model for me, just reading his book, which is called Out There, Ultra Recovery, a guy that was a 320-pound alcoholic who changed his life one day and decided to become a badass ultra runner.
02:33:03.000Just being around those people, they don't show pain.
02:33:07.000They just don't show pain, even when they're in misery.
02:33:13.000It's so much different than MMA, where 25 minutes of misery and an exhausting fight is, now that I've gone through some of this stuff, it's a joke.
02:33:24.000Because when you're out there running 75 miles, 50 miles, I ran 50 miles in 97 degree heat with the same percentage of humidity on a blacktop country road in Iowa, getting scorched, went through probably four hours of heat stroke.
02:33:47.000They had me in a field at mile 30, a farmer's yard, hosing me down with cold water from the farmer's house just to get my body temperature down so I could get going again, right?
02:34:01.000It's an amazing group of people, and I... I encourage people to work their way up, try and find a running group and try it because it's cool shit.
02:36:27.000So I did Leadville a couple years back.
02:36:31.000And John Byrne and I went out two weeks early, and I had to leave from Colorado, fly back to Providence to do a broadcast, and then fly back.
02:36:38.000He picked me up at the airport, and we went back up.
02:36:41.000But while I was with him for the first couple days, we went up Mount Albert, which is the tallest mountain in Colorado, and I felt the altitude.
02:36:47.000I felt the altitude, 14.5 or whatever it was, and it was painful on the way up.
02:36:51.000And then we got caught on a storm on the top of the mountain, a bad storm.
02:36:55.000Hail, downpour, and lightning hitting everywhere, all over the mountain.
02:36:58.000We had to bomb down this mountain as fast as we could, and I trashed my quads, right?
02:37:04.000And we're real close to the actual race at that point, right?
02:38:38.000And if you met her, completely unassuming, thin woman, real silly, drinks beer and eats nachos, not on some kind of crazy diet, eats candy.
02:39:09.000You know, you get dehydrated at any point, or caloric deficit, or all these different altitude problems that can come about, all the other stuff, you know, it's definitely a mental thing.
02:42:28.000When everybody thought that he was the next guy.
02:42:31.000Eugenio was a psychopath that friggin went after Henzo and was kicking Henzo's ass and they shut the power down in the building so Henzo wouldn't lose.
02:43:08.000I would say as my coaching career progressed as I got older, you know, when you're young and you're full of testosterone and you're a psychopath and you're coaching, it's just, ah, let's go do this.
02:43:19.000You know, and as I got older and mellowed out, I mean, I had to lay down on the floor of the locker room before the first Hughes-Trigg fight because I knew Trigg was a dangerous dude, just a tough son of a bitch and a good wrestler, right?
02:43:31.000And I was really nervous for that fight.
02:43:33.000I had to lay on my back and just decompress for 30 minutes before that fight just to go out and just coach with a calm mind.
02:43:43.000When Hughes fought Carlos Newton after Carlos took the title from me, and Carlos comes out and we were infuriated because he's walking out with two Playboy bunnies and acting...
02:43:52.000And it was, you know, it's a show, right?
02:43:57.000And so Hughes is standing there, and I was all pumped up.
02:44:00.000And I was like, Matt, you know, we had to get Matt off a tractor on the farm to come and fight him, right?
02:44:05.000Because my automatic rematch clause got, they reneged on that and said, your choice, either Matt can fight him or somebody from another camp, but if Matt or somebody from another, if somebody from another camp fights him, you got the winner no matter what.
02:44:16.000But if Matt fights him and loses, you can rematch Carlos.
02:44:19.000But if Matt wins, obviously that's kind of tough because we're buddies, right?
02:45:54.000I can't remember what he injured, but Noe couldn't train hard for that fight, so he wasn't in great shape, but he was knocking the shit out of Chuck until he ran out of gas.
02:46:02.000I mean, he was boxing Chuck's ears off.
02:46:05.000You know that fight, Peretti came to Chuck and told him, if you want to keep working and keep fighting for the UFC, do not take this guy down.
02:48:30.000I mean, maybe when he was out there, he decided to go that way, or maybe he just really did get lost and couldn't find his water, but that's one of the hottest places on earth.
02:48:39.000I mean, it gets to the 130s and stuff out there.
02:50:26.000And he hurt his knee a long time ago from a rugby accident, and his knee was so loose and fucked up that they shortened his tendons and stitched them back together again, but they shortened him too much.
02:52:04.000It's an unfortunate thing that your mind absorbs all these techniques and you understand how to compete better, but your body just gives out.