The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #18 with Pat Miletich

00:00:02.000 Three, two, one.

00:00:07.000 The great and powerful Pat Miletic.

00:00:11.000 Listen, man, it's an honor to have you in here.

00:00:13.000 Thank you.

00:00:13.000 You know what?

00:00:14.000 I've been watching your show for a long time, and you're a contrarian thinker.

00:00:18.000 I love it.

00:00:19.000 And you've prompted a lot of people to think differently, right?

00:00:22.000 Maybe.

00:00:24.000 I think information prompts people to think differently.

00:00:27.000 Well, when they get pounded with it enough and hear it enough, eventually it starts to sink in, right?

00:00:32.000 Yeah, I think so, man.

00:00:33.000 And when you talk about guys who have been around, like, you were one of the real pioneers of MMA. You know, it's one of the reasons why I really wanted to have you in here.

00:00:42.000 I remember back when you were fighting.

00:00:43.000 I remember back when you fought Matt Hume, and what was that like?

00:00:47.000 Extreme Battlecade.

00:00:49.000 Yeah, that was John Peretti's thing.

00:00:50.000 I mean, dude, you've been around.

00:00:52.000 You've been around.

00:00:53.000 You were the early days.

00:00:54.000 Bare knuckle.

00:00:55.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:00:56.000 No, you know, and the thing is, I always tell people...

00:00:58.000 Didn't you fight Dan Severn?

00:00:59.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:01:00.000 We fought to a draw.

00:01:01.000 Who was 270 pounds at the time?

00:01:03.000 Yeah, and he was still obviously pretty tough back then, still pretty mobile.

00:01:07.000 It was not a fun fight, I can tell you, carrying his weight around for 30 minutes, but it was tough.

00:01:11.000 But Matt Hume is the guy that made me realize that I wasn't a fighter yet, because I was 15-0, I think I was ranked fourth in the world.

00:01:18.000 I fought Matt, ragdolled him for basically the whole first round, threw him around like a ragdoll, but he was just biding his time and waiting, and he caught me with some knees and damaged my nose. 1.00

00:01:31.000 Yeah, the referee and the doctor stopped the fight because back then it was very controversial.

00:01:34.000 They didn't want a guy with a crushed nose or whatever.

00:01:37.000 And so they stopped the fight.

00:01:38.000 But I realized at that point he knew a lot more than I did.

00:01:42.000 Yeah, that was an interesting fight because I totally disagree with that stoppage.

00:01:46.000 And I was watching.

00:01:47.000 I was like, this is crazy.

00:01:48.000 How could you stop a fight for a broken nose?

00:01:50.000 Well, I got headbutted.

00:01:52.000 I used to spar with a lot of pro boxers.

00:01:54.000 And I got head-butted by a pro boxer, and he separated the cartilage from the bone.

00:01:58.000 So that gap is still there.

00:02:00.000 So that's what they felt.

00:02:01.000 My nose was bleeding a little bit, so that's why they stopped it.

00:02:04.000 Right, but broken noses are just normal.

00:02:06.000 It happens, right.

00:02:07.000 And it's not dangerous.

00:02:08.000 It's like, maybe somebody saw those movies where you, like, remember in a movie, a guy would hit the bottom of a guy's nose and drive the bone up into his brain?

00:02:16.000 It's like Mike Tyson talking about it, right?

00:02:18.000 Yeah, he did.

00:02:19.000 He hit him like this and pushed the bone up through the brain.

00:02:22.000 That might be the worst Mike Tyson impression I've ever heard.

00:02:24.000 I'm going to let that go though.

00:02:27.000 I'm doing my best, doing my best, man.

00:02:29.000 Yeah, but back then, yeah, nobody really knew what was dangerous, what wasn't dangerous.

00:02:33.000 It wasn't like a body of fights that we could draw upon.

00:02:37.000 And I was doing televised debates with politicians at the time.

00:02:40.000 Were you really?

00:02:41.000 To keep the sport legal in the state that I was scheduled to fight in.

00:02:44.000 So think of how stressful it is to train for a fight, stay healthy, try and pay your bills, do all the stuff you're doing, And at the same time, I'm debating politicians in that state who are trying to pass a bill to ban the sport that I'm scheduled to fight in that state.

00:02:57.000 I'm panicking.

00:02:58.000 I'm freaking out.

00:02:59.000 So I'd do my homework and I'd get in debates like Representative Bolin from Illinois.

00:03:03.000 By the time we got done with the debate, he goes...

00:03:06.000 I'll agree with Mr. Miletic. 0.98

00:03:08.000 He's obviously, you know, I think they expected to go into a debate with a punch-drunk boxer.

00:03:13.000 Right, right.

00:03:14.000 And by the time the debate was done, I'd crushed him, and he's like, well, maybe if we could just do away with headbutts.

00:03:19.000 You know, that was his rebuttal at the end of it.

00:03:22.000 Yeah, I mean, I see how they think, and I see that.

00:03:26.000 But I think today, even to this day, I don't mind headbutts.

00:03:30.000 I don't either, because you train for them.

00:03:32.000 If they're legal, that's what you're training for.

00:03:34.000 And it's a legit technique.

00:03:35.000 Like, why is it okay to slam your elbow into someone's face, but it's not okay to slam your forehead into someone's face?

00:03:40.000 Right.

00:03:40.000 And it's very effective.

00:03:41.000 If a guy's tying you up in the guard and his head's right there, you can do that.

00:03:47.000 And he can't really do it back to you.

00:03:49.000 I mean, I watched when I was in my first no-holds-barred tournament in Chicago.

00:03:55.000 God, I don't even remember the name of it anymore.

00:03:57.000 It's been so long.

00:03:58.000 But...

00:04:00.000 I saw a guy get headbutted 42 times in the first round, and he ended up winning with a triangle.

00:04:06.000 Wow!

00:04:06.000 He ended up winning the fight.

00:04:07.000 It was Marcel Leverich versus this guy named Johnson.

00:04:10.000 Mike Johnson, I think his name was.

00:04:12.000 Marcel Leverich ends up losing after crushing him with headbutts.

00:04:15.000 Mike Johnson's in the shower.

00:04:17.000 They're running cold water on him trying to wake him back up, and he collapses and they have to throw in an alternate.

00:04:22.000 Wow!

00:04:23.000 But it was, yeah, headbutts obviously were legal then.

00:04:26.000 Wow!

00:04:28.000 Yeah, headbutts, like, that was Mark the Hammer, Coleman's moves.

00:04:32.000 Knees on the ground.

00:04:32.000 Knees on the ground, knees to the head on the ground.

00:04:34.000 But, I mean, think about when Coleman was in his prime, he was all about headbutts.

00:04:39.000 And when he fought Maurice, and he took Maurice down, that was back in the days when headbutts were legal.

00:04:44.000 Maurice Smith, he defended against all that.

00:04:46.000 Doing all of this.

00:04:47.000 Yeah, it's just another technique.

00:04:49.000 But without that technique, it's sort of like, when I... When I realized that Taekwondo was very limited was when I started working out with kickboxers.

00:04:58.000 And I started getting punched in the face.

00:05:00.000 And I was like, oh, no.

00:05:01.000 Like, what have I learned?

00:05:03.000 I've learned this, you know, thing that is only good if somebody doesn't punch you in the face.

00:05:08.000 Like, this is terrible.

00:05:09.000 But, you know, you were an open thinker, obviously, and you realized.

00:05:11.000 So the thing was...

00:05:14.000 With early MMA, everybody was so tied to their technique, it's like being tied to a religion and refusing to see something else, right?

00:05:20.000 Yeah, there was a lot of that.

00:05:21.000 So guys who are taekwondo experts, wrestlers, this, that, they were so...

00:05:26.000 So attached to their art that they refused to learn anything else and they'd just die because of it.

00:05:32.000 They'd get crushed because of it. 1.00

00:05:33.000 And I just early on went, these guys are dumbasses. 0.99

00:05:36.000 Why wouldn't you want to know how to do a lot of things? 1.00

00:05:39.000 You've got to have a big toolbox.

00:05:40.000 There was always a lot of pride in your art, right?

00:05:43.000 There was always a lot of guys like wrestlers who were only into wrestling or kickboxers only into Muay Thai.

00:05:48.000 They just wanted to stand up.

00:05:49.000 They didn't want to go to the ground.

00:05:50.000 They just wanted to stand up.

00:05:51.000 And that just costs you in the long run.

00:05:54.000 Especially when you see like a real complete fighter.

00:05:57.000 Like a guy like Mighty Mouse.

00:05:59.000 Like a guy like Mighty Mouse is the top of the heap.

00:06:01.000 Trained by Matt Hume, right?

00:06:02.000 Yeah, right.

00:06:03.000 Exactly.

00:06:03.000 And he can do everything.

00:06:05.000 I mean, it doesn't matter if you're a wrestler, it doesn't matter if you're a kickboxer, you're fucked. 1.00

00:06:09.000 You're fucked everywhere with that guy. 0.99

00:06:10.000 And it's because he's got this just incredibly well-rounded skill sets. 0.98

00:06:14.000 And I think The days of the specialists, I think, are still kind of here.

00:06:19.000 I'm surprised that that's still the case.

00:06:21.000 Yeah, there's a few guys that can still pull it off.

00:06:23.000 But the guys that can pull it off are like the Damian Mayas or the Wonder Boys.

00:06:28.000 Wonder Boys is such an elite striker that if he can keep the fight standing, he can kind of work a lot of guys.

00:06:35.000 And because so many guys have not done karate and things like that, he's like a Rubik's Cube they can't figure out.

00:06:41.000 Yeah.

00:06:41.000 Well, he's long in that weird sideways stance with that front leg.

00:06:45.000 Yeah.

00:06:45.000 Those guys who have a good front leg, like that karate style, point fighting style, that they're used to blitzing in with that good front leg, very hard to gauge that distance.

00:06:54.000 It's so different.

00:06:55.000 Yeah.

00:06:56.000 I think Woodley did the best job of anybody in fighting him.

00:07:00.000 And I think that's like a road map for it. 1.00

00:07:02.000 Because people booed Woodley and gave Woodley a lot of shit. 0.99

00:07:06.000 But look, Woodley's the one who hurt him in both fights. 0.99

00:07:09.000 And that's the way you gotta fight that guy.

00:07:11.000 You can't just charge after that guy.

00:07:12.000 And the criticisms of Woodley, in my mind, I think, you know, look, that's a two-man dance, right?

00:07:19.000 Woodley kept his title.

00:07:21.000 Ultimately, that's all that matters.

00:07:23.000 You know what I mean?

00:07:23.000 If I'm the champ, I'm just trying to keep my title.

00:07:26.000 I'm doing enough to win.

00:07:27.000 I'm not there to be the most exciting fighter.

00:07:30.000 That was my mentality, because I fought totally different Before I got to the UFC, I was just a psychopath and go out and just go 100 miles an hour until the guy was done.

00:07:40.000 But once you get in the UFC, then it's, okay, we can cut you if you lose.

00:07:44.000 It's like, okay, now I've got to change the way I fight.

00:07:46.000 Well, there's also the win bonus.

00:07:48.000 I mean, especially now.

00:07:49.000 Did they have the win bonus back then?

00:07:50.000 Yeah, that to me is a real issue.

00:07:53.000 I think a guy should be paid what they get paid.

00:07:55.000 I think if you have a contract, the contract for X amount of money.

00:07:59.000 If you have points on the pay-per-view, that's on top of that.

00:08:01.000 But the idea that your win or loss could be in the hands of what we have deemed completely incompetent judges.

00:08:07.000 I see it every week?

00:08:08.000 Every week.

00:08:09.000 That's brutal.

00:08:09.000 And you do a lot of commentary yourself.

00:08:11.000 In these smaller shows, I'd imagine sometimes it's even worse.

00:08:15.000 I mean, we've gotten in trouble to the point where we had people come to us and go, look, the promoters from different organizations, when there was really, really bad decisions, you know, when I was working with Michael Ciavello especially, we were brutal on the athletic commissions.

00:08:33.000 And we'd hear about it and go...

00:08:34.000 You guys need to back off.

00:08:36.000 I've heard it too.

00:08:37.000 I've heard it from athletic commissions too. 1.00

00:08:38.000 I say go fuck yourself. 1.00

00:08:40.000 There's guys in there that are fighting for their life. 1.00

00:08:42.000 They literally train for months and months.

00:08:44.000 And someone who literally doesn't even understand martial arts is giving these guys a decision.

00:08:49.000 A loss or a win.

00:08:50.000 And that's 50% of their money.

00:08:53.000 And that's crazy.

00:08:53.000 I remember the first time I witnessed it, as far as a coach, when my IFL team was fighting in Texas.

00:08:58.000 We were fighting, I think, Boss's team.

00:09:01.000 And I looked at the judges and all of them, one of them had a bouffant hairdo, an old lady, and then two old guys with white hair.

00:09:09.000 And I went back to the locker room and I go, guys, You can't let this go to the judges.

00:09:14.000 They're one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel.

00:09:17.000 They know nothing about what they're watching. 1.00

00:09:19.000 We are in deep shit if we can't do it. 0.96

00:09:21.000 Well, I think boxing is a very complicated art, and I think it's a very difficult thing to score, but it's way more easy to score than martial arts are. 0.98

00:09:32.000 Absolutely.

00:09:33.000 There's so much going on.

00:09:34.000 When a fight goes to the ground, I mean, I have a friend who's a judge who literally said to me in the middle of a fight, one of the female judges, or referees rather, judges, one of the female judges turned to him and go, what is he doing?

00:09:46.000 Like, what is he doing?

00:09:47.000 The guy was going for a Kimura.

00:09:48.000 What is he doing?

00:09:49.000 What is he doing?

00:09:51.000 What are you doing?

00:09:52.000 Adelaide Berg, right?

00:09:53.000 Yeah.

00:09:53.000 We've heard, you talked about her during one of the UFCs, right?

00:09:57.000 Yeah, me and Cormier were joking around the other day.

00:09:59.000 Very nice lady.

00:10:01.000 Very nice lady.

00:10:02.000 Yeah.

00:10:03.000 But like I said, my mom's a really nice lady too. 0.99

00:10:05.000 I wouldn't want her judging any fights.

00:10:07.000 But I said to Adelaide Byrd before the Pride in Las Vegas, Lawler was fighting in that one, right?

00:10:11.000 And I thought, I'm just going to ask.

00:10:13.000 And I walked up to her and I go, excuse me, I'm new to the sport.

00:10:15.000 Could you tell me what a triangle choke is?

00:10:17.000 And she looked at me and went...

00:10:19.000 Just walked away.

00:10:22.000 She walked away? 1.00

00:10:23.000 Yeah.

00:10:23.000 Maybe she knew who you were.

00:10:25.000 Maybe she's like, this is a trap. 1.00

00:10:27.000 Fucking Pat Miller just trying to trap me here. 1.00

00:10:29.000 Guy with cauliflower ears is asking me a question. 1.00

00:10:30.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:10:31.000 That's true.

00:10:31.000 We're new to this sport.

00:10:32.000 That's hilarious.

00:10:33.000 You probably had like a transparent grin.

00:10:36.000 Like you couldn't hold it back.

00:10:38.000 You know those grins?

00:10:40.000 It's sad that this goes on.

00:10:42.000 It's awful.

00:10:43.000 They suspend fighters constantly, but when are they going to start suspending referees and judges?

00:10:47.000 I think I've only seen it one time.

00:10:49.000 I agree.

00:10:50.000 I mean, judges and for sure referees as well.

00:10:53.000 But I think that the real thing that's so disappointing to me is that there's a wealth of martial arts experts out there.

00:10:59.000 Like, there's so many.

00:11:01.000 There's so many.

00:11:02.000 Good coaches that would be great judges.

00:11:05.000 There's so many great ex-fighters.

00:11:06.000 There's so many people that are just really well-versed in martial arts that'd be able to tell.

00:11:11.000 And I also think three people is a ridiculously small number.

00:11:15.000 I think for your- Like five judges?

00:11:16.000 Yeah! 0.98

00:11:17.000 Like five judges would- I think you would lose a lot of the shitty decisions. 0.97

00:11:20.000 That's a good idea. 0.99

00:11:21.000 Because if it's two and one, and there's sometimes when you get a split decision, you're like, what in the fuck? 0.84

00:11:26.000 One person saw this completely wrong, and the other two guys got it right. 0.96

00:11:30.000 Thank God the other two guys were there.

00:11:31.000 Well, if there's five people, and this happens more than once, you say, okay, we've got a weak link here.

00:11:36.000 Let's get rid of this person.

00:11:37.000 Right. 0.94

00:11:37.000 Let's get rid of this person. 0.94

00:11:38.000 One judge will have it unanimous one way, and the other judges will have it unanimous the other way.

00:11:43.000 It's impossible.

00:11:44.000 They should be held accountable.

00:11:47.000 Someone should have to sit down with them and say, God, explain.

00:11:50.000 What are you seeing? 0.98

00:11:51.000 Let's watch the round, sit down with me, and tell me how you think this guy who's getting the fuck beat out of him is winning. 0.99

00:11:58.000 It's criminal, dude. 0.98

00:12:00.000 Some of it is.

00:12:01.000 Some of the kids I've seen screwed up.

00:12:02.000 It's heartbreaking.

00:12:04.000 It is.

00:12:04.000 And it literally is like stealing money from these kids.

00:12:08.000 I just don't like the win bonus, man.

00:12:11.000 I don't think anybody fights harder for it.

00:12:14.000 See, and I don't even necessarily subscribe to Fight of the Night and Knockout of the Night and stuff like that.

00:12:20.000 I think they just bring back the yellow cards.

00:12:23.000 For stalling type stuff.

00:12:25.000 Right.

00:12:25.000 How Pride did it.

00:12:26.000 Right.

00:12:26.000 I think that's a great way to do things.

00:12:28.000 And when Pride did it, what did they take, 10% of your purse?

00:12:31.000 I think so.

00:12:32.000 And they would end up, I mean, you'd get DQ'd eventually, right?

00:12:35.000 Yes.

00:12:36.000 They'd pull the red card and you're done.

00:12:37.000 Right.

00:12:37.000 If it was more than one yellow card, you'd get DQ'd.

00:12:40.000 So they would give you a yellow card if they thought that you were either doing something illegal or if you were not engaging.

00:12:45.000 Stalling, just stalling, whatever.

00:12:46.000 Yeah.

00:12:47.000 I mean, in college wrestling, they knew that they had to change things, right?

00:12:50.000 They had to speed up the action, and they started calling stalling a lot faster in college wrestling, and it changed college wrestling.

00:12:56.000 Guys get after it now.

00:12:57.000 You know, my problem with it, though, is that there's referees that separate fighters when they're working real hard against the cage.

00:13:03.000 And I think, again, it's guys who don't understand.

00:13:06.000 They don't understand how difficult this is.

00:13:08.000 When you have one guy who's trying to take the other guy down, the other guy's trying to defend, they're landing shots in between, trying to open up space, and then the referee will say, keep working.

00:13:16.000 I'm going to separate you guys.

00:13:17.000 You don't work.

00:13:18.000 They're working. 1.00

00:13:18.000 What the fuck are you watching? 1.00

00:13:19.000 Yeah, they're battling. 1.00

00:13:20.000 They're battling.

00:13:20.000 They literally don't understand the position.

00:13:23.000 And that's a giant problem.

00:13:25.000 Think about how many referees have never truly trained.

00:13:28.000 Right.

00:13:28.000 A lot.

00:13:29.000 A lot. 0.90

00:13:29.000 And if they did train, it was a long fucking time ago. 0.90

00:13:32.000 A lot of the guys going in there with big fat guts and they just... 0.93

00:13:35.000 How many times have you called fights in all the years you've been calling fights and been saying, he's out, he's out, he's out, stop the fight, stop the fight, stop the fight?

00:13:43.000 I wonder if you're so close to it that you don't see it as well.

00:13:47.000 That's not an excuse.

00:13:48.000 That's not an excuse.

00:13:49.000 Because, you know...

00:13:50.000 You've trained for so many years in martial arts, right?

00:13:53.000 You know when somebody's unconscious from a choke.

00:13:55.000 You know when a joint's getting destroyed.

00:13:57.000 You've been around it enough.

00:13:58.000 You've trained high-level enough where you see it.

00:14:01.000 You can see their stomach where it's going in and out really hard.

00:14:04.000 You know they're unconscious, right?

00:14:05.000 Right, right.

00:14:06.000 Where referees look at somebody and their eyes are wide open.

00:14:08.000 Well, his eyes are open, so he must be conscious. 1.00

00:14:10.000 You're a moron. 1.00

00:14:11.000 Yeah, you don't understand. 1.00

00:14:13.000 What are your thoughts on forcing tap-outs if a guy gets his arm broken?

00:14:18.000 That's a controversial thing.

00:14:21.000 Stopping a fight.

00:14:22.000 What do you think about Tim Sylvia and Frank Mir?

00:14:24.000 Yeah.

00:14:25.000 You know, Tim got his forearms snapped.

00:14:26.000 That was a crazy one.

00:14:26.000 Because in that one I kind of agree with her because it wasn't an elbow.

00:14:30.000 It was the middle of the arm.

00:14:31.000 Right.

00:14:31.000 Both forearm bones went at the same time.

00:14:33.000 So I didn't see that angle.

00:14:37.000 Right.

00:14:37.000 Tim's back was to us in the corner.

00:14:40.000 And Herb stops it, and Tim gets up and he's like, what the, you know, doing a great acting job, right?

00:14:46.000 Tim, you know, for whatever reason was able to pull that off.

00:14:49.000 I mean, that's not a pleasant feeling, obviously, having your arms snap in half.

00:14:53.000 And Tim gets up and he's like yelling at Herb.

00:14:57.000 I go in, I start yelling at Herb, and Herb's like, Pat, I swear to God, his arm is broken.

00:15:02.000 He's pleased.

00:15:03.000 And then I see the replay on the big screen, and I go, all right, Herb.

00:15:06.000 Well, I remember the crowd was booing, and then we played the replay back, and I'm like, watch it, watch it, right here, snap.

00:15:12.000 And you hear everybody go, oh!

00:15:14.000 And then I told Tim, I go, wave to the crowd when we walk out of the cage with your broken arm.

00:15:18.000 So Tim goes like this and waves.

00:15:20.000 Jesus Christ.

00:15:22.000 And then we got backstage and the doctor looked at it and I go, how bad is it? 0.98

00:15:26.000 And he goes, oh, it fucking hurts. 0.97

00:15:28.000 This hurts. 0.98

00:15:29.000 Yeah, it was bad.

00:15:32.000 So the doctor that did it was a good friend of mine, orthopedic guy, who I trained for many years.

00:15:37.000 He was a bull rider at one time.

00:15:40.000 And then became an orthopedic surgeon and then trained with me in kickboxing, right?

00:15:44.000 Tough guy.

00:15:45.000 Tough dude from Texas.

00:15:46.000 I would imagine.

00:15:47.000 And he goes, I've never had to order plates for a tibia bone to replace, to put somebody's forearm bones back together.

00:15:56.000 He goes, they're as big as the normal human's tibia. 0.93

00:15:58.000 Oh, yeah.

00:15:59.000 Tim's a giant.

00:16:00.000 Yeah.

00:16:00.000 His bones were massive.

00:16:01.000 He goes, they don't even make, I had to use tibia plates. 0.99

00:16:04.000 Wow.

00:16:05.000 Yeah.

00:16:05.000 Did that heal 100%?

00:16:07.000 Yeah.

00:16:08.000 Yeah.

00:16:09.000 Because it was a long time though, right?

00:16:11.000 He really struggled with that.

00:16:12.000 I remember him saying thank you to Herb Dean for saving his career.

00:16:16.000 Yeah.

00:16:17.000 Because, you know, if he let him go on and that thing got thrashed...

00:16:21.000 That thing's hanging down here and everything else.

00:16:22.000 Or especially if it goes...

00:16:23.000 Once it breaks through the skin, that becomes a giant issue for infections and all kinds of...

00:16:28.000 Here it is right here.

00:16:29.000 Jamie pulled it up. 1.00

00:16:30.000 Frank Mir, that motherfucker has broken more arms... 0.99

00:16:33.000 They're not showing it right here? 1.00

00:16:35.000 It was right on the cup.

00:16:37.000 Here's the replay.

00:16:38.000 Yeah.

00:16:39.000 That's another thing about metal cups.

00:16:41.000 That's a weird little loophole.

00:16:43.000 Here it is.

00:16:43.000 That's a weird angle, too.

00:16:44.000 Look at that.

00:16:44.000 Pop!

00:16:45.000 Yeah.

00:16:46.000 Ooh, daddy.

00:16:47.000 That's a weird angle.

00:16:48.000 That was ugly.

00:16:49.000 That was ugly.

00:16:50.000 Those metal cups, man, that's a weird steel loophole.

00:16:54.000 Like, you could still wear those tie cups, those steel cups.

00:16:57.000 I think you should be able to.

00:16:58.000 But you're kicking metal, and it's also a crazy fulcrum. 0.99

00:17:01.000 If you've got a guy on an arm bar, you've got a fucking metal rod there. 0.98

00:17:04.000 I like it, though. 0.99

00:17:05.000 I like it.

00:17:05.000 I'm sure you do.

00:17:07.000 But the thing with the old-timers that taught me in K1 and Muay Thai was you take those metal cups and you take sheet metal screws from the inside out, and you put the sheet metal screws through and then back them back out so there's raised edges everywhere on it, right? 1.00

00:17:23.000 So you wear that.

00:17:23.000 So if they knee you or kick you in the groin, it shreds their meat up on their knee or their foot.

00:17:27.000 Right.

00:17:28.000 So that's what the old TIE fighters would do.

00:17:30.000 That's the way they would do their cups.

00:17:32.000 So that's how I started doing it. 0.99

00:17:34.000 So if they're going to low blow me, they're going to shred their freaking leg up. 0.98

00:17:37.000 The problem with that is it also works if you get a guy and you mount him and you drive that thing into his sternum. 0.98

00:17:42.000 Then you've got like barbs.

00:17:44.000 You're shoving into his sternum.

00:17:45.000 That seems like a weapon.

00:17:47.000 It seems a little bit like a little cheating.

00:17:50.000 Yeah, I... There was a couple other guys that did that back in the day, especially the Chicago circuit, because I was fighting kickboxing in Chicago a lot.

00:17:58.000 Was Chicago like a rougher circuit?

00:17:59.000 Dude, they would do K1 rules, Muay Thai, and then I started in the PKC style originally, and I hated it because it was, you know, the light tree, like the dragsters. 1.00

00:18:09.000 The old PKC was you get one kick in, one light lights.

00:18:12.000 Oh, yeah.

00:18:13.000 PKC, is that like PKA? Yeah, basically it was all the same stuff.

00:18:17.000 Same kind of shit, like above the waist kickboxing? 1.00

00:18:19.000 Yeah, with the silk pants and all the bullshit. 1.00

00:18:21.000 Right, those were great. 0.99

00:18:22.000 The boots, those foam boots on.

00:18:24.000 So when I started, I wasn't flexible, right?

00:18:26.000 I was a wrestler who had some boxing experience, and the reason they did that was so boxers wouldn't come in and destroy everybody.

00:18:32.000 Right, right.

00:18:32.000 So the karate guys could survive and do pretty well.

00:18:35.000 Yeah.

00:18:35.000 So the...

00:18:36.000 Just having to get the allotted eight kicks per round, I hated it because it was all kick above the waist.

00:18:41.000 I wasn't that flexible.

00:18:43.000 I was pretty shitty at kicks when I first started, right?

00:18:46.000 So it was just a waste of time.

00:18:47.000 And then I ran into the Muay Thai thing and the K1 rules fights, and I went, this is my thing. 0.99

00:18:52.000 I can kick them in the legs, thank God. 0.97

00:18:54.000 Well, I remember the first time I got kicked in the leg, I was like, oh, this is such a game changer. 0.95

00:18:58.000 Because in Taekwondo, it was illegal.

00:19:00.000 It was illegal to kick below the waist, and it was illegal to punch in the face.

00:19:04.000 So it was great for learning dexterity of the legs, but the moment I started training with Thai guys, and I got kicked once, just once, I went, oh!

00:19:12.000 You should do this.

00:19:14.000 This should be the thing.

00:19:15.000 It's so painful.

00:19:16.000 It's so painful.

00:19:17.000 Well, it's weird.

00:19:18.000 It's not just painful.

00:19:19.000 It's like your leg goes dead.

00:19:21.000 It's this weird feeling.

00:19:23.000 You're like, oh, Christ.

00:19:25.000 It's so effective.

00:19:26.000 And also that you could do it from such a close range.

00:19:30.000 They can be in a clinch and blast somebody in the leg and hurt them, right?

00:19:33.000 So the worst experience of my life sparring...

00:19:37.000 Was Arthur Mariana Souza.

00:19:39.000 He was the guy in the old IVCs in Brazil that laid Vanderlei Silva's eye wide open and all the meat was hanging down past his eye.

00:19:46.000 That was Arthur Mariana Souza.

00:19:48.000 I remember that guy.

00:19:49.000 And he was a great striker, trained in Holland for a lot of years, and he would come up with Omri Batesh and live with me.

00:19:53.000 When Batesh was the elite guy on the planet grappling, right?

00:19:57.000 So we had the best of both worlds.

00:19:58.000 We had a wicked striker and one of the best grapplers in the world.

00:20:01.000 And he'd come up and we'd just train hard, right?

00:20:04.000 For six, eight weeks at a time. 0.98

00:20:06.000 And Arthur started low kicking the shit out of everybody in my gym. 0.62

00:20:10.000 We weren't great Muay Thai guys at that time.

00:20:13.000 But the experience of watching...

00:20:16.000 He started...

00:20:16.000 That's the thing.

00:20:18.000 He started getting to the back leg, right?

00:20:20.000 Oh, yeah.

00:20:20.000 He could throw the cross and step outside and come back and just tap you in the same spot over and over on your back leg.

00:20:25.000 And you're always taking your weight off that leg off the cross.

00:20:28.000 Right.

00:20:28.000 Your weight goes on it, then it comes back off of it as you're stepping right when the kick hits.

00:20:32.000 So it's like jello.

00:20:33.000 Your quad's jello.

00:20:34.000 It just cut right to the femur bone every time. 0.93

00:20:37.000 And he kicked me like three times in a row in the exact same spot.

00:20:41.000 And I winced and went...

00:20:44.000 And he goes, Petsch, you know, with the Brazilian accent.

00:20:47.000 He's like, Petsch, I don't kick you in that leg anymore.

00:20:49.000 And I go, no, dude, I need to learn the hard way.

00:20:51.000 I need to learn the hard way.

00:20:52.000 So he's like, all right, cross. 1.00

00:20:54.000 Low kick.

00:20:56.000 Fall down ball.

00:20:57.000 He had Jens Pulver jumping like this, like a monkey.

00:21:00.000 He was so afraid of his low kicks. 1.00

00:21:02.000 And then you're fucked for days afterwards. 1.00

00:21:03.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

00:21:04.000 Yeah, you don't want to get kicked there.

00:21:05.000 You're walking funky when you try to train.

00:21:06.000 You're all jacked up.

00:21:07.000 Mm-hmm.

00:21:08.000 Yeah, it's an amazing skill.

00:21:11.000 The Thais really figured out how to do it right. 1.00

00:21:14.000 I mean, Kyokushin obviously had it.

00:21:15.000 A lot of martial arts had it.

00:21:16.000 But, man, the Thais figured it out. 0.52

00:21:19.000 It's kind of crazy when you think about this one small island.

00:21:23.000 This one small country.

00:21:25.000 And they, because of gambling and because they had all those fights, they just figured out a totally different method of training, a totally different method of fighting.

00:21:33.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:21:34.000 Pretty impressive.

00:21:35.000 When you think about the history of Thai fighting between the Laotians and the Thais during times of peace, the soldiers would fight each other and all that sort of stuff.

00:21:45.000 Just a bunch of scary people, and they're the nicest people in the world.

00:21:47.000 The nicest people.

00:21:48.000 You couldn't meet any nicer people who would completely wreck you.

00:21:51.000 It's so weird because when you meet Thais, especially even Thai fighters, they're so friendly.

00:21:55.000 They're so friendly and humble and warm, and then when you watch them fight, you're like, Jesus!

00:22:01.000 It's kind of crazy.

00:22:03.000 So my Muay Thai coach, a guy named Long Longley, his last name was not Longley, it was a lot longer than that, but he was a stadium champ.

00:22:09.000 He lived in Peoria, Illinois, in the ghetto.

00:22:12.000 And he had a little shitty basement with like banana bags and all that sort of stuff. 0.89

00:22:19.000 And I found him out of sheer luck.

00:22:20.000 Somebody said, there's this guy in Peoria that was a stadium champion.

00:22:24.000 He's the guy.

00:22:24.000 So I went to see him, and he taught me how to clinch, do clinch work.

00:22:28.000 And he was 140 pounds maybe.

00:22:30.000 And he put you in the clinch.

00:22:32.000 All the years of wrestling and everything else didn't matter.

00:22:34.000 I mean, I felt like a dog in a lake with a raccoon hanging on my head.

00:22:39.000 That's one thing that people don't realize that aren't real fans of the sport is that Muay Thai is a lot about grappling.

00:22:45.000 It's a lot about that clinch work.

00:22:47.000 And that's one of the things that I really like Lion Fight above a lot of the other kickboxing organizations is they let those guys work in the clinch and elbows in the clinch.

00:22:57.000 Again, like we were saying about headbutts, these elements are very effective.

00:23:02.000 So why remove them? 0.77

00:23:05.000 It's what's tolerable to the politicians and the public and all the other garbage, right?

00:23:10.000 Bare knuckle, clinch, everything should be there, I think.

00:23:12.000 I think everything should be there.

00:23:13.000 I think the real issue is the cage.

00:23:16.000 The real issue is the cage, in my opinion, because the cage presents this artificial barrier.

00:23:20.000 I mean, I've been beating a dead horse here because I've been saying they should fight on basketball courts.

00:23:24.000 I'm like, if you can have a basketball game in a basketball court, why can't you have a fight on a basketball court?

00:23:28.000 It would certainly serve a striker, right? 1.00

00:23:29.000 Fuck yeah! 1.00

00:23:30.000 The wrestlers are able to get you against the cage, yank your legs out from underneath you, beat the shit out of you. 1.00

00:23:34.000 It is an advantage for the wrestlers.

00:23:37.000 But it's also an advantage for the wrestlers in that a guy's not going to be able to put his back up against the cage and get back up again.

00:23:42.000 True.

00:23:43.000 You know, if a good grappler has you down in the center, you're going to have to earn that stand-up.

00:23:47.000 You're going to have to actually either reverse the position or figure out a real escape.

00:23:51.000 Because so many guys are so good at wall-walking.

00:23:54.000 And they're also good at defending a submission by keeping one side pressed up against a cage.

00:24:00.000 Can't take their back.

00:24:01.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:24:01.000 I think that it's an artificial environment, like the cage.

00:24:04.000 And it's also, it's hard to see, like if you're in the audience.

00:24:08.000 I mean, it's actually better sometimes to be home watching cage fights.

00:24:12.000 I like the boxing rings for fights.

00:24:13.000 I mean, they go through the ropes now and then, whatever, right?

00:24:17.000 But it's a lot better for people at home watching and for the live crowd.

00:24:21.000 There's just not that cage barrier, that focus problem for the eyes and cameras.

00:24:25.000 I agree.

00:24:26.000 I think Bellator actually nailed it with their kickboxing ring because they put this big circle around it so you can't fall through.

00:24:33.000 Remember when Bernard Hopkins fought Joe Smith in his last fight? 0.99

00:24:36.000 He went through the ropes and landed on his fucking head. 0.99

00:24:39.000 This is a terrible way for a legend to go out. 1.00

00:24:42.000 The ropes were loose and he gets clipped while he was already going down.

00:24:47.000 He just goes right through the hole. 1.00

00:24:48.000 That's ridiculous that he could fall four feet and land on his fucking head like that. 1.00

00:24:52.000 That was the fight where Bernard was talking tons of shit before the fight, right? 1.00

00:24:56.000 Was he talking a lot of shit? 1.00

00:24:57.000 Yeah, he was talking a lot of shit. 1.00

00:24:58.000 Well, it was his last fight, you know, and probably realized... 1.00

00:25:01.000 Bernard Hopkins was getting his ass kicked by Antoine Echols, who trained at Pena's boxing gym in Iowa, where I trained, right? 0.84

00:25:08.000 Antoine was scary, dude. 0.99

00:25:09.000 He was scary.

00:25:09.000 He got sidetracked and derailed by horrible management.

00:25:14.000 They really screwed his career up, but he was the scariest boxer that I have ever seen and been in the gym with.

00:25:22.000 I mean, that guy would...

00:25:22.000 He's looking like he's punching at half speed and just crushing people.

00:25:26.000 With 16-ounce sparring gloves on.

00:25:28.000 Wow.

00:25:28.000 Just destroying people.

00:25:29.000 Yeah, I remember Antoine.

00:25:29.000 Antoine went down to...

00:25:31.000 It was South America, Ecuador, or wherever the hell it was. 0.99

00:25:35.000 That was when Norris was fighting Simon Brown.

00:25:41.000 Terry?

00:25:42.000 Terry Norris.

00:25:43.000 Terry Norris or...

00:25:45.000 The smaller one.

00:25:47.000 Michael Nunn was defending his title there.

00:25:50.000 And Antoine Echols got on the card because Michael Nunn was the pound-for-pound best fighter in the world.

00:25:55.000 He was out of Davenport, Iowa also, where I live.

00:25:59.000 They were doing a bunch of sparring.

00:26:00.000 They were training down there, getting used to the altitude, and Antoine walked into the gym, and he started sparring with three-time world champions and beating the shit out of all of them.

00:26:07.000 And they go, dude, you need to back off.

00:26:10.000 You need to stop this.

00:26:11.000 And it's a month out from the fight.

00:26:13.000 He doesn't care. 0.99

00:26:13.000 He's knocking the shit out of all these three-time world champs. 0.99

00:26:17.000 And basically, what Antoine said to all of them was, If you guys can't handle it, stay out of my ring. 0.98

00:26:22.000 Like, I don't care who you are or what your titles are, I'm going to wreck you.

00:26:27.000 So, toughen up.

00:26:28.000 I own the ring now, right?

00:26:30.000 That's how good he was.

00:26:32.000 What do you think about that kind of sparring, though?

00:26:34.000 I think it's great.

00:26:35.000 Do you think it's great to just go to war?

00:26:36.000 I just, you know, there has to be a limit, obviously.

00:26:39.000 Because the ties don't do it like that at all.

00:26:41.000 Well, here's the thing, though.

00:26:42.000 That's because of the low kicks, the knees, the elbows, all that sort of stuff.

00:26:45.000 It's also because they fight a lot.

00:26:47.000 Right.

00:26:47.000 Yeah, they're fighting every week.

00:26:48.000 So that's your sparring.

00:26:50.000 But the thing is, you can't, and I say it a million times, I've said it for years, you can't become a race car driver by going down the highway at 55. You just don't have the reaction time.

00:26:59.000 You're not used to that high speed, that high endurance, everything else that goes on.

00:27:04.000 You have to get used to that and everything slows down eventually, right?

00:27:07.000 With experience and time, things slow down for you.

00:27:10.000 I can remember when I first started fighting kickboxing and everything was like a tunnel this big.

00:27:14.000 And all I could hear was me breathing.

00:27:16.000 Right.

00:27:18.000 Didn't hear anything else.

00:27:19.000 But then later on in my career, You know, you'd see punches come at you and you'd move this slow.

00:27:25.000 Yeah.

00:27:25.000 But it was actually...

00:27:26.000 Right.

00:27:27.000 You know what I mean?

00:27:27.000 So it just happens with time.

00:27:29.000 And you've experienced that with everything you've done, right?

00:27:31.000 Yeah, you just become more accustomed to it and then you become more relaxed.

00:27:35.000 But I wonder, like, is there a way to keep the speed but at least take something off the shots?

00:27:42.000 Well, that's the thing is where you put the shin pads on, the headgear, the 16-ounce gloves, you go at high speed, you go hard, you hit takedowns hard, all that sort of stuff.

00:27:50.000 A couple times a week.

00:27:52.000 But you can't take that kind of punishment constantly.

00:27:55.000 But mornings would be conditioning, strength stuff, technique, all that sort of stuff.

00:27:59.000 Then nighttime was more high speed, hard takedowns.

00:28:02.000 And as a coach, I had to look and go, alright, tonight's takedowns?

00:28:06.000 But if I saw people getting tired, fatigued, and sloppy, I knew an injury was about to happen.

00:28:10.000 Right.

00:28:10.000 Okay, let's go to the ground now.

00:28:11.000 Get in the guard.

00:28:12.000 Let's go from there.

00:28:13.000 Let's do some ground and pound drills, this and that.

00:28:15.000 Right.

00:28:16.000 So I think it's important to go high speed until you start seeing mistakes happen because of sloppiness, fatigue.

00:28:22.000 That's when people get hurt.

00:28:23.000 Then you've got to pull the reins back on everybody.

00:28:25.000 When you were running your gym, the Miletic Fighting Systems was the gym.

00:28:30.000 I mean, you guys were the kings.

00:28:31.000 You've got to think about who came out of your gym.

00:28:33.000 Matt Hughes, Robbie Lawler, I mean, Jens Pulver, Tim Sylvia, and then a host of other killers that people just forgot.

00:28:41.000 You know, we had a lot of people Obviously that would come and train with us, Rich Franklin, Dave Manet, who was an 85-pound champ for a while.

00:28:49.000 He was one of the best martial artists I've ever seen.

00:28:52.000 People don't even know about him.

00:28:53.000 The guy was incredible.

00:28:54.000 Trained with Greg Nelson for a good portion of his career, obviously.

00:28:58.000 I think we had 92 people made it to televised careers, and I think 30 or so made it to the UFC. That's pretty impressive.

00:29:04.000 So it's, you know, when I added it all up, somebody asked me to do that, and I added it all up, and I went through all the televised cards that I remembered.

00:29:12.000 It was, I think, 92 people, and I thought, you know, it's pretty impressive.

00:29:16.000 We had a lot of killers.

00:29:17.000 We had a lot of killers.

00:29:18.000 Yeah, and you also were the first big super gym.

00:29:22.000 Right.

00:29:23.000 Like, you were the first big American gym that was producing, like, world champions.

00:29:28.000 Besides, like, the Lion's Den, I guess.

00:29:30.000 That's true.

00:29:31.000 The Lion's Den, too.

00:29:32.000 Yeah, I guess they were the first.

00:29:33.000 We had a good rivalry with them, though.

00:29:35.000 Yeah, that's true.

00:29:37.000 Well, the Lion's Den didn't produce as many world champions.

00:29:40.000 We really basically had Frank and Ken and who else came out of the line.

00:29:43.000 Trey Telligman.

00:29:44.000 Yeah.

00:29:44.000 Guy Metzger.

00:29:46.000 Guy Metzger was a world champion.

00:29:47.000 Yeah.

00:29:48.000 Yeah, Metzger also had that kickboxing background, too.

00:29:52.000 He had more of an American-style kickboxing background, too.

00:29:55.000 Yeah, and the wrestling.

00:29:56.000 He had wrestled before and stuff, so that helped him.

00:29:58.000 He had some great fights in Pride, too.

00:30:01.000 Absolutely.

00:30:02.000 Yeah, Metzger was super legit.

00:30:03.000 He's a smart guy, too.

00:30:05.000 Metzger's an interesting fellow.

00:30:07.000 When you hear him talk about fighting and talk about his career, he's very open and honest about it.

00:30:12.000 And he's into the holistic health now.

00:30:14.000 He's pretty wise to that.

00:30:16.000 And I tell you what, if you talk to him long enough, he'll have you sold on some products.

00:30:21.000 He will.

00:30:23.000 Smart dude.

00:30:24.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:30:24.000 But you know, he's a guy that, he suffered through that Vioxx shit. 1.00

00:30:28.000 You know that Vioxx stuff that people were taking for arthritis? 0.99

00:30:30.000 Getting heart attacks and all that.

00:30:31.000 He had a stroke.

00:30:32.000 He had a stroke through Vioxx. 1.00

00:30:33.000 They pulled that shit off the market. 0.99

00:30:35.000 And when people were taking it, a lot of people were getting strokes. 1.00

00:30:38.000 And I think someone commented on that.

00:30:40.000 Vioxx and Celebrex.

00:30:41.000 Celebrex, another one?

00:30:42.000 Celebrex was bad too, yeah.

00:30:44.000 Yeah, there's a lot of weird drugs that people were taking for arthritis.

00:30:47.000 I guess it was like a blood thinner, right?

00:30:49.000 Is that what the idea was?

00:30:50.000 Yeah, and it was a lot of professional athletes who were suffering from inflammation and pain and getting beat up and stuff were all taking it, and it was, yeah, it was wrecking people.

00:30:58.000 Yeah, but anyway, back to your gym.

00:31:01.000 Like, when you guys were doing it, you guys were kind of creating the roadmap.

00:31:05.000 I mean, there wasn't really a lot.

00:31:07.000 I mean, the lines then had their crazy, the initiation that they would do, where they would run you through this insane gauntlet that was similar to what I guess Ken had to go through in Japan.

00:31:19.000 Ken had put that together.

00:31:21.000 They had their own little methods as well.

00:31:24.000 I shouldn't say little methods.

00:31:25.000 They had their own... 0.84

00:31:26.000 They were very big and very crazy.

00:31:28.000 But you guys, like, there wasn't...

00:31:30.000 Like, now you have ATT, you have TriStar, you have all these different gyms you could sort of model after.

00:31:37.000 You know, you've got Rufus's camp.

00:31:38.000 There's all these different places we could say, oh, all these elite fighters come out of here.

00:31:42.000 How are they doing it?

00:31:43.000 Oh, I've trained with these guys.

00:31:44.000 I know their methods.

00:31:45.000 Here's what they do for strength and conditioning.

00:31:47.000 Here's how they take...

00:31:48.000 Here's how they do their recovery work.

00:31:50.000 You guys were...

00:31:51.000 Basically at the front of the line.

00:31:53.000 There was nobody back there for you to look at.

00:31:56.000 Right.

00:31:56.000 Well, I was lucky enough to be, like I said, I wasn't a world-class wrestler.

00:32:00.000 I was a good wrestler.

00:32:01.000 I beat some very good wrestlers, but I was not by any means even remotely world-class, right?

00:32:05.000 I had some boxing experience.

00:32:07.000 I'd been around some great boxers, so I at least had that to start with.

00:32:11.000 But I recognized, you know, I want to be good enough to spar 12 rounds with a world-class boxer.

00:32:18.000 And hang.

00:32:19.000 You know, hang.

00:32:20.000 And go an hour straight with a world-class BJJ black belt.

00:32:24.000 And go back and forth with them.

00:32:25.000 And battle, tooth and nail.

00:32:26.000 To be able to hang in the Iowa wrestling room during the summer with the Hawk Club guys who are absolute beasts and friggin' throw you around and bounce you off walls.

00:32:34.000 And spar with good kickboxers.

00:32:36.000 And be able to do all that stuff and then understand how to put it all together.

00:32:40.000 And I think that that, you know, at least enabled me to explain grappling and wrestling to a striker from a striker standpoint and vice versa.

00:32:51.000 You know what I mean?

00:32:51.000 So that was understanding angles from a striking standpoint, from a wrestling standpoint, and being able to explain it and understand people.

00:32:58.000 And then you've got to read people, you know, their personality.

00:33:02.000 You've got to coach everybody different.

00:33:03.000 You can't coach everybody the same way.

00:33:06.000 Some people want to get screamed at, and some people want to pat on the back and a hug.

00:33:10.000 You know what I mean?

00:33:10.000 It's just you got to read people differently.

00:33:12.000 Personalities are a big deal. 1.00

00:33:13.000 When you were putting together, when you were training fighters, you first started off, when you first started doing it, you were still fighting.

00:33:20.000 And you still had a couple of fights along the way.

00:33:23.000 Right.

00:33:24.000 But when you were putting together, like, training, say if you were training a fighter for a big fight in the UFC, How did you put together their camp?

00:33:32.000 Did you leave it up to them in some ways?

00:33:35.000 Did you just have them attend regular group training sessions?

00:33:39.000 Did you give them individualized attention?

00:33:41.000 I would give them individual attention, definitely.

00:33:45.000 I had to kind of figure out everybody's body was different, how to find that balance between aerobic and anaerobic endurance.

00:33:53.000 You know, some people needed more of one or the other.

00:33:56.000 And then they'd come to team training.

00:33:58.000 And everybody, you know, you got 40 guys in the room who are all a bunch of killers.

00:34:02.000 And you just get new guys.

00:34:05.000 And everybody was pretty good about knowing this guy's getting ready for a fight. 0.99

00:34:08.000 Don't fucking hurt him. 0.99

00:34:09.000 You know, that's really important. 0.99

00:34:11.000 Right.

00:34:11.000 You know, so we were pretty good about, as a group, looking out for somebody but pushing them to their limit constantly.

00:34:17.000 Or double teaming them constantly, you know.

00:34:19.000 Every minute a new guy jumping in on them type stuff and doing that sort of, you know.

00:34:23.000 So it was, and obviously, you know, helping a guy like Hughes who wasn't the best striker.

00:34:29.000 We got to do what we can to get him better at it.

00:34:31.000 You know what I mean?

00:34:32.000 Or a striker who can't stop a takedown.

00:34:34.000 We've got to figure out how to help this guy.

00:34:36.000 I've got to put him with a bunch of wrestlers and just have him constantly sprawling, sprawling, sprawling. 0.94

00:34:41.000 And guys would alternate and shoot and shoot and shoot and make him work it, work it, work it.

00:34:45.000 It was just different for each guy, I guess.

00:34:48.000 Now, did you have anything specific that you would do in between camps?

00:34:53.000 Like, say if you had a guy like Hughes, and you say, like, he wins his fight, now he has some time off.

00:34:58.000 Would you start working with him on specific things?

00:35:02.000 Like, would you have a program?

00:35:03.000 You'd say, like, Matt, we really got to tighten up, you know, your stand-up defense?

00:35:06.000 Yeah, if they were healthy and stuff like that, absolutely.

00:35:09.000 You know, there was just guys that...

00:35:12.000 It's so hard for people to be well-rounded.

00:35:14.000 It really is.

00:35:15.000 Especially when you're that good at one thing.

00:35:17.000 You know, Hughes was such a powerful wrestler.

00:35:20.000 And so good on the ground that it was a challenge.

00:35:24.000 So we had to definitely work extra with that.

00:35:27.000 Well, Matt was the first guy who was a really great wrestler who also was outstanding at submissions.

00:35:33.000 He really changed the game because when he hit that far side arm bar on George St. Pierre, that was a very technical move.

00:35:41.000 And to have a powerhouse wrestler hit that in a world title fight...

00:35:46.000 To me, I think Matt doesn't get enough credit.

00:35:49.000 Maybe it's just because time passes and you start looking at George St. Pierre, you start looking at all these other guys.

00:35:54.000 Tyron Woodley is the champ now.

00:35:56.000 And you sort of just forget that Matt was the blueprint.

00:36:00.000 This is what happens when a really strong, powerful wrestler learns and absorbs the ground, right?

00:36:06.000 That's a scary dude.

00:36:07.000 That's where you go...

00:36:09.000 You're not a BJJ guy.

00:36:10.000 You're a catch-as-catch-can wrestler.

00:36:12.000 You understand how to destroy somebody, control position, beat them up, and hit power submissions, finesse submissions, all that different stuff.

00:36:20.000 And when Hughes was in his prime, I remember when he first...

00:36:24.000 I refereed his second fight.

00:36:26.000 And he destroyed some poor Brazilian.

00:36:28.000 And the guy was a really good, legit black belt. 0.91

00:36:31.000 And Hughes beat him half to death.

00:36:33.000 And it was in Chicago.

00:36:34.000 I refereed it.

00:36:35.000 And I walked up to him and I go, dude, you ever come to Iowa, I know I'll make you a world champ.

00:36:40.000 There's just no doubt in my mind.

00:36:41.000 That was the only guy I ever said that to.

00:36:42.000 The only guy I ever recruited, to be honest with you, for the most part.

00:36:46.000 So Hughes shows up.

00:36:47.000 He drives three and a half hours from Hillsboro, Illinois.

00:36:50.000 I've got bronchitis at the time, which made it even worse.

00:36:54.000 And he goes, here I am.

00:36:56.000 Let's get this workout in, right?

00:36:58.000 So we wrestled and grappled, you know, takedowns to submissions, everything else.

00:37:03.000 And about 30 minutes into it, I can't breathe. 0.53

00:37:06.000 And this guy is a monster.

00:37:07.000 I've had him in 50 submissions. 0.76

00:37:09.000 And he's shaking out of all of them, literally.

00:37:11.000 Just like, bounced me off walls. 0.95

00:37:12.000 He's so fucking strong, I couldn't believe it. 0.98

00:37:14.000 And I was a strong guy. 0.99

00:37:16.000 I mean, at the time, I was probably benching 365, could dunk a basketball and run a 4-4-40.

00:37:21.000 So I was not a slouch athlete when I was in my prime.

00:37:24.000 And I couldn't believe this guy.

00:37:25.000 I had never experienced somebody my size being this strong in my life. 0.99

00:37:30.000 That farmer strength shit is real. 0.99

00:37:32.000 It is real. 1.00

00:37:32.000 And I grew up having to wrestle farmers, trust me. 1.00

00:37:35.000 The Royce Algers and all those psychopaths, right?

00:37:37.000 But I said to him, I go, hold on, man.

00:37:40.000 I go, I can't breathe.

00:37:41.000 I got bronchitis. 1.00

00:37:42.000 And he goes, fuck you. 1.00

00:37:43.000 He goes, I don't care what you got. 1.00

00:37:45.000 I drove three and a half hours.

00:37:46.000 We're working out.

00:37:46.000 And he grabbed me.

00:37:47.000 And fucking train doubled me onto my back all the way across the room, slams me. 0.99

00:37:52.000 I was like, all right, we're here. 0.99

00:37:53.000 Let's get it on. 0.97

00:37:54.000 So I got him in one guillotine. 0.73

00:37:56.000 I lifted him off his feet. 0.98

00:37:57.000 I ran him backwards and ran him as hard as I could, ass first into the wall. 0.99

00:38:00.000 I mean, I was trying to kill him. 1.00

00:38:02.000 I was so pissed because he was just a freak. 0.99

00:38:05.000 And he went limp. 0.94

00:38:06.000 He went unconscious for a second.

00:38:08.000 So I let go of it.

00:38:08.000 He slid down the wall, hit his knees, woke back up, and train doubled me again onto my back.

00:38:13.000 It was back at him.

00:38:14.000 Right?

00:38:15.000 And so we get done with this hour-something workout of just go, go, go.

00:38:20.000 And I look at him and I go, dude, what are you on?

00:38:23.000 And he goes, what do you mean?

00:38:24.000 I go, what are you taking? 1.00

00:38:27.000 Are you on some fucking steroids or what? 1.00

00:38:29.000 And he goes, and he got pissed. 1.00

00:38:30.000 And he goes, don't ever accuse me of that again. 1.00

00:38:32.000 He goes, fuck you. 1.00

00:38:34.000 He goes, don't ever say that again. 1.00

00:38:35.000 Never.

00:38:36.000 That was like the one thing where if somebody said anything like that, he was so offended.

00:38:41.000 Because he was just a farm boy. 0.55

00:38:42.000 His brother was frigging just as strong, if not stronger. 0.92

00:38:44.000 Right. 0.81

00:38:44.000 Yeah, his brother was a gorilla too, and his brother fought in the UFC once, right? 0.81

00:38:48.000 Yeah, and walking back to the locker room after that fight, his brother Mark goes, that wasn't really all I expected.

00:38:55.000 It was fun, but I don't enjoy that that much.

00:39:00.000 Wow. 0.81

00:39:00.000 And he killed the guy. 0.81

00:39:01.000 He beat the shit out of it. 0.99

00:39:02.000 Yeah, that's interesting. 0.93

00:39:04.000 Even identical twins, they don't necessarily think identically.

00:39:09.000 Matt was a real freak and a real important figure in the history of MMA. You've got to think, 1993 it all starts, and then from then on it's been sort of this learning experience, trying to figure out what works and what doesn't work.

00:39:24.000 In my opinion, Matt is one of the big pieces to that puzzle.

00:39:28.000 Because we had had some powerful wrestlers, of course, you had Coleman and so many other guys, and they were basically all about ground and pound.

00:39:35.000 I mean, the only time Coleman got a submission to the UFC was when he fucking headlocked Dan Severin.

00:39:39.000 Or canopered somebody or whatever.

00:39:41.000 Did you never canopered somebody? 0.94

00:39:42.000 Take the leg in the head, take the leg in the head and go... 0.93

00:39:45.000 Or no, yeah, headlock and then squeeze them like that.

00:39:48.000 Yeah, it was like a judo scarf hold.

00:39:49.000 It's a compressor, a compressor, yeah. 0.98

00:39:51.000 I mean, look, nobody wants to get stuck in that with that fucking gorilla back then. 0.98

00:39:54.000 No, he was ungodly strong when I trained him for the Pride Grand Prix, right? 0.99

00:39:57.000 Yeah.

00:39:58.000 He called me up and he goes, I want to come there and train with you.

00:40:01.000 And he had lost two or three fights in a row at that point, so he was kind of cannon fodder put into that Pride Grand Prix.

00:40:05.000 He was just a name at that point.

00:40:07.000 And I go, alright, you come here.

00:40:09.000 You've got to do everything I tell you to do.

00:40:11.000 We're going to train hard. 0.99

00:40:12.000 I'm going to torture you.

00:40:13.000 And he's like, that's fine.

00:40:14.000 And he wanted to come there, I think because I had so many scary dudes at the time.

00:40:19.000 Like Steve Rusk, who wasn't even a fighter, could kill every fighter I've ever trained.

00:40:23.000 I mean, he'd just walk in the room. 0.98

00:40:25.000 Take off his fatigues from hunting, beat the shit out of everybody in the room, and then go back out hunting or fishing. 0.91

00:40:31.000 That was Steve Rusk. 0.97

00:40:33.000 And he didn't fight?

00:40:34.000 He fought four times and just goes, you know what, I'm not into it, but I'll come into the gym and help everybody get ready.

00:40:41.000 He helped me coach my IFL team.

00:40:43.000 But he was the guy that, after I fought Lindland, when I got kicked out of my weight division, when the UFC goes, you've got to move up weight division, I went...

00:40:52.000 Why'd they tell you you have to move up?

00:40:53.000 They go, you've trained yourself out of a spot.

00:40:56.000 You have Jason Black, Rob Lawler, and Matt Hughes all at 170. They're all ranked, I think, at the time, top 10 in the world.

00:41:06.000 And I had done my comeback fight after losing the title to Carlos, knocked out Shoney Carter, so in my contract it said that I had an automatic rematch clause, right?

00:41:15.000 Yeah.

00:41:16.000 And they go, no, not happening.

00:41:17.000 You're moving up to 185. And I go, I'm not big enough for 185, right?

00:41:21.000 But I realized at that point, business-wise, how easily I could be discarded, right?

00:41:27.000 And it kind of ruined me, to be honest with you, mentally.

00:41:30.000 I was like, I don't even want to do this.

00:41:32.000 But neither here nor there, Lindland, after we fought, he came to my gym to train for one of his fights.

00:41:38.000 And Steve Rusk is there that day.

00:41:41.000 And Rusk was a great Greco guy.

00:41:43.000 And now it's the Olympic silver medalist Greco guy going against a guy that's an unknown.

00:41:47.000 And Rusk...

00:41:49.000 Ragdolls him. 0.96

00:41:50.000 Winner stays on the mat.

00:41:52.000 And Lindland gets taken down.

00:41:53.000 And Lindland won't leave the mat.

00:41:55.000 You can't believe he's getting taken down by a no-name, right? 0.99

00:41:58.000 So Russ does it to him again.

00:41:59.000 Does it to him again.

00:42:00.000 Does it to him again.

00:42:01.000 And finally the whole team goes, Lindland, get off the mat, dude. 1.00

00:42:04.000 Get the fuck off the mat. 1.00

00:42:06.000 Lindland comes over and sits next to me and goes, who the fuck is that guy? 1.00

00:42:09.000 I go, that's Steve Rusk. 0.99

00:42:11.000 He's Steve.

00:42:12.000 He destroys everybody.

00:42:14.000 Just a lot of those guys in gyms out there that don't want to fight, but they're super high level.

00:42:18.000 Donaher was telling me about some guys that he has in his gym that wreck some of his best top guys that go in competitions.

00:42:24.000 Absolutely.

00:42:24.000 Yeah.

00:42:25.000 Now, Rusk was a guy who...

00:42:27.000 He grabbed, it was Dave Strasser who fought in the UFC for a while.

00:42:30.000 Dave was a tough guy.

00:42:31.000 Dave was very tough.

00:42:32.000 But Russ grabbed the, he was in Dave's guard, and he grabbed his foot and his shinbone and went like this and was going to just break his foot off.

00:42:41.000 That's how strong this guy was.

00:42:43.000 And Strasser taps out and gets up and looking at him like, there's no way I'm ever grappling with you again.

00:42:49.000 He goes, stay away from me.

00:42:50.000 I don't want any part of you ever again.

00:42:53.000 And Nick Ackerman, who was a national champion wrestler, he won the Hodge Trophy the same year Cale Sanderson won it.

00:43:00.000 They were co-recipients of it.

00:43:03.000 Nick Ackerman was the guy who was a national champ who had his legs were gone from his knees down.

00:43:08.000 And Ackerman was almost as tall as me on his knees.

00:43:11.000 That was another guy in our gym that was so strong that he could just crush your ribs by squeezing you.

00:43:17.000 Just massive.

00:43:18.000 Massive power.

00:43:19.000 It makes you wonder, what would it be like to grapple Corellin when he was in his prime? 0.97

00:43:24.000 Because even the great grapplers would grapple him and go, what in the fuck is that all about? 0.87

00:43:30.000 Yeah, he was gut-wrenching people and snapping spines. 0.98

00:43:33.000 Yeah, literally snapping spines. 0.98

00:43:34.000 Like, when guys would flatten out, when you'd see a 290-pound man panic, like, lay down flat on his stomach and try to flatten out and do everything they can to keep from getting launched, and he would pick them up like a half-empty sack of potatoes and fucking slam them. 0.94

00:43:48.000 Yeah. 0.98

00:43:49.000 Scary human being.

00:43:50.000 Jesus.

00:43:50.000 You ever see his parents?

00:43:52.000 No.

00:43:52.000 Tiny little people.

00:43:53.000 Really?

00:43:54.000 Yeah.

00:43:54.000 They called them the experiment.

00:43:55.000 Were they gymnasts?

00:43:56.000 One was a gymnast or something, and the other one was a little power lifter or something? 0.98

00:44:00.000 I'm not sure.

00:44:01.000 I'm not sure, but they were like 5'5".

00:44:03.000 Right.

00:44:03.000 And you see him.

00:44:04.000 He was just this fucking giant panther. 1.00

00:44:07.000 He really was like a panther. 1.00

00:44:09.000 He didn't even move like a big guy.

00:44:11.000 He moved like a small guy, and he was a giant.

00:44:15.000 I think that there was probably some sort of beat in the system with that.

00:44:20.000 What beat in the system?

00:44:21.000 That was a part of the system. 1.00

00:44:23.000 That fucking guy was on everything. 1.00

00:44:25.000 100%. 1.00

00:44:25.000 I mean, you look at his face. 1.00

00:44:26.000 His forehead came forward and everything just looked like...

00:44:30.000 Massive amounts of growth and all kinds of stuff.

00:44:32.000 They probably had him on growth when he was a little baby.

00:44:34.000 I mean, they probably just shot him up with growth from the time he was little.

00:44:37.000 That's scary, isn't it? 0.99

00:44:38.000 It's fucking terrifying. 0.99

00:44:39.000 But look, what they're doing right now in China. 0.99

00:44:41.000 There he is.

00:44:42.000 There's Corellin in his prime.

00:44:44.000 Picking up a massive man.

00:44:45.000 Massive man.

00:44:46.000 This guy's battling, too.

00:44:47.000 Look at this.

00:44:48.000 Roar!

00:44:50.000 Boom! 0.99

00:44:50.000 I mean, that guy, that giant dude on the bottom, probably never had anybody ragdom like that before. 0.99

00:44:57.000 And it was also like the way he would work out. 0.89

00:44:59.000 When you see some of the shit that he would do, like some of his kettlebell workouts and shield casts that he would do with club bells and steel plates and shit, he was all about movement. 0.97

00:45:10.000 Yeah, circular motions. 0.98

00:45:13.000 So your gym, having all that true functional...

00:45:16.000 To see Indian clubs in your gym, I went, alright, he gets it. 0.98

00:45:20.000 He really gets it.

00:45:21.000 Indian clubs, I collect all the old ones.

00:45:23.000 Oh, really?

00:45:24.000 Old antique wood ones.

00:45:25.000 The huge wood ones, right?

00:45:27.000 Yeah.

00:45:27.000 All that sort of stuff.

00:45:28.000 So a guy named Ed Thomas taught me about true functional fitness long before any of this CrossFit crap and all this stuff came out, right?

00:45:35.000 So Ed Thomas, Dr. Ed Thomas, and I didn't know he was a doctor.

00:45:39.000 He just showed up at my gym one day.

00:45:40.000 He walks in, a little unassuming dude, and he goes, hey, he goes, Patty, I'm Ed Thomas.

00:45:45.000 He goes, do you have time for me to teach you some stuff?

00:45:49.000 And I went, sure.

00:45:50.000 You know, whatever.

00:45:51.000 It was the middle of the day.

00:45:52.000 Nothing was going on.

00:45:53.000 So he brings in Indian clubs, kettlebells, old medicine balls, old leather stuff.

00:45:58.000 And I, at the time, never seen any of this stuff.

00:46:00.000 I didn't know anything about it.

00:46:01.000 Well, he was raised in the Turner Halls in Davenport, Iowa.

00:46:04.000 And that's where he learned functional fitness.

00:46:06.000 And the Turner Halls were brought by the Germans here because the The Germans used Turner Halls back in Germany to train a generation to become warriors to protect the nation. 0.91

00:46:15.000 And that's where that mentality came from.

00:46:16.000 So everything they did was cargo nets, pommel horses, Indian clubs, heavy kettlebells, all kinds of crazy just functional fitness stuff.

00:46:23.000 So they would climb cargo nets?

00:46:25.000 Yeah, serpentine inside of them.

00:46:27.000 They would swing the cargo nets and the kids would serpentine in and out of them as it was swinging.

00:46:31.000 All kinds of crazy stuff, right?

00:46:34.000 Definitely the rings.

00:46:35.000 They were doing a lot of the ring stuff and power, you know, being able to do iron crosses, all that sort of stuff.

00:46:39.000 That's the way they raised their kids.

00:46:41.000 So he was, at the time, I think and still is, one of the first and foremost guys on functional fitness.

00:46:46.000 He was the guy that taught me how to train upside down with gravity boots.

00:46:49.000 Doing all kinds of crazy stuff with medicine balls and kettle bells and bands and everything else you could do standing up, you could do upside down.

00:46:56.000 And he rebuilt me at the time.

00:46:58.000 But he came in, taught me for an hour.

00:47:01.000 He said, I'll leave this equipment here with you.

00:47:03.000 You can teach your guys what I taught you and I'll come back, you know, another time.

00:47:07.000 And I was like, yeah, and we were talking for a second.

00:47:09.000 I got on the phone, and I turned around and he was gone.

00:47:12.000 Well, he was a... 0.79

00:47:14.000 Three times in Vietnam, he was a tunnel rat.

00:47:17.000 He signed up for extra tours. 0.95

00:47:18.000 He would go in and kill the Viet Cong, sleep amongst the bodies, and then go back out and find another tunnel and kill people again. 0.94

00:47:24.000 That's what he did for three years. 0.96

00:47:25.000 Just a hardcore guy.

00:47:27.000 But the guy that owned Taekwondo Times at the time, his kid was training underneath me.

00:47:32.000 And he goes, I heard you met a friend of mine.

00:47:34.000 I go, who's that?

00:47:35.000 He goes, Dr. Ed Thomas.

00:47:36.000 And I go, well, he didn't say he was a doctor, but I could tell he was one of the most intelligent people I've ever met in my life.

00:47:41.000 He goes, yeah, he's a scholar.

00:47:43.000 I mean, this guy's a warrior genius, right?

00:47:46.000 And he's still up in Des Moines, Iowa.

00:47:49.000 Haven't talked to him for a few years, but that guy taught me what real fitness was about.

00:47:54.000 Wow.

00:47:55.000 What year was this?

00:47:57.000 Dear God.

00:47:58.000 I've been hit in the head so much.

00:48:01.000 You're great for a guy who's been hit in the head as many as you.

00:48:03.000 I never had a concussion.

00:48:05.000 I will say that.

00:48:06.000 Well, you must have.

00:48:06.000 Never had a concussion.

00:48:07.000 Really?

00:48:07.000 No.

00:48:08.000 Well, what is a concussion?

00:48:09.000 A concussion is like, will they check your pupils?

00:48:11.000 They're not dilated correctly?

00:48:13.000 None of it.

00:48:14.000 None of it.

00:48:15.000 No concussions at all?

00:48:16.000 No.

00:48:16.000 All that hard sparring?

00:48:17.000 Nope.

00:48:17.000 Never.

00:48:18.000 I find that hard to believe.

00:48:19.000 I never got hit with a shot that I didn't see coming.

00:48:21.000 And I think that's the difference.

00:48:22.000 Ever?

00:48:23.000 Nope.

00:48:24.000 Wow.

00:48:24.000 Besides one time in a huge fight where a dude hit me on the side of the head with a brick and I saw it last second and I at least rolled with it.

00:48:30.000 And that didn't give you a concussion?

00:48:32.000 It was a hip-hop night at the nightclub I was bouncing at.

00:48:36.000 Oh, sounds like fun.

00:48:39.000 And the Illinois gangbangers and the Iowa gangbangers started going at it.

00:48:42.000 And I tried breaking it up and they all attacked me.

00:48:46.000 So that's when I, everybody was wearing, it was wintertime, so I was choking people.

00:48:49.000 A guy got me in a headlock and I was grabbing people by their coat lapels and I put my head in between his head and his head and I'd choke him unconscious.

00:48:56.000 I'd find a new coat and I was working my way backwards out the front door and finally snuck out of the headlock, put him in a rear choke, went backwards out the door.

00:49:03.000 He went limp.

00:49:04.000 I dropped him and then as I turned to get out into the street because there was cops everywhere at that point.

00:49:09.000 There's dogs.

00:49:10.000 It's a snowstorm.

00:49:11.000 Last second I see this coming at the side of my head and I duck and it bounces off my head and this dude goes yeah like I was gonna go down and I turned and I looked at him and rifled him with the right hand and knocked him out and then the next thing you know there's just dogs diving into the crowd.

00:49:26.000 It was a good one.

00:49:27.000 That was a fun one.

00:49:27.000 Dogs, that's not good.

00:49:29.000 No.

00:49:30.000 Dogs work.

00:49:31.000 They work.

00:49:32.000 They work real well. 1.00

00:49:33.000 It's not good because they don't know who the fuck they're biting. 1.00

00:49:36.000 They might bite you. 1.00

00:49:37.000 They might bite the bad guys. 1.00

00:49:38.000 I mean, who the fuck? 1.00

00:49:40.000 Dogs don't know who the bouncer is. 1.00

00:49:41.000 They don't give a shit. 0.99

00:49:42.000 They clear a crowd out real quick, though. 1.00

00:49:43.000 Fuck, yeah, they do. 1.00

00:49:44.000 Malmois? 1.00

00:49:45.000 Is that what they're using?

00:49:46.000 Back then it was shepherds.

00:49:48.000 Really?

00:49:48.000 It was all German shepherds.

00:49:49.000 Yeah, Malinois hadn't even entered the scene at that time.

00:49:51.000 I have a buddy who trains dogs who doesn't like Malinois.

00:49:53.000 He says they're too bloodthirsty.

00:49:55.000 Too aggressive?

00:49:56.000 Yeah, he goes, they don't listen as well.

00:49:57.000 Interesting.

00:49:58.000 He goes, I can trust a shepherd.

00:49:59.000 He goes, bite, hold, and release.

00:50:01.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:50:01.000 He's like, if I sick a Malinois on him, he goes, fuck no. 1.00

00:50:04.000 He goes, also, I don't trust him as a pet. 1.00

00:50:06.000 Right.

00:50:06.000 You know, he wants a dog that is a real trained bite dog, but also...

00:50:12.000 Good with the family.

00:50:13.000 Yeah, can hang out with your kids.

00:50:15.000 Right.

00:50:15.000 Well, it's like, I've owned Mastiffs before, right?

00:50:17.000 I have a Mastiff.

00:50:18.000 You know, I had Brindle Mastiffs, and I always loved to have males. 0.98

00:50:22.000 And I had a stalker for three years who was a psychopath, right?

00:50:26.000 So that was when I got my first Mastiff, King. 0.98

00:50:28.000 He was 210 pounds, but he was a Brindle, scary, looked like a Bengal tiger, right? 0.99

00:50:35.000 Those dogs are so powerful at that size when they're truly in shape where you can't stop them.

00:50:41.000 And there were people that were using Mastiffs for police work.

00:50:44.000 And they stopped using them because a 210 pound Mastiff on a human being, they can kill them really fast. 1.00

00:50:49.000 This is not a bite dog.

00:50:51.000 This is a dog that can just have a screw go loose. 0.91

00:50:55.000 And rip somebody's throat out in a heartbeat. 0.94

00:50:57.000 They're just too big and powerful. 0.89

00:50:58.000 Yeah, if the suspect hurts them, if something hurts them and they think, oh, this is a fight.

00:51:02.000 Right. 1.00

00:51:03.000 I'm just going to rip your fucking head clean off your body. 1.00

00:51:05.000 Right. 1.00

00:51:06.000 And that mastiff tested me a couple times for alpha position in the house.

00:51:10.000 Oh, no.

00:51:11.000 It was one time a plastic bag in the wind was rolling through the woods on my property.

00:51:17.000 And he ran and he grabbed it.

00:51:18.000 And I told him, you know, King, come here, front.

00:51:20.000 And he came up to me and I put my hand on the plastic bag and he goes...

00:51:25.000 It's like, alright, here it is.

00:51:26.000 This is test time.

00:51:28.000 So I ripped the bag and it came out of his mouth, right?

00:51:31.000 And he really got pissed off at me.

00:51:33.000 I was testing him.

00:51:34.000 So at that point, I'm like, well, I can't back down to him now.

00:51:38.000 This is it.

00:51:39.000 So I put my fist against his teeth that he was showing.

00:51:42.000 And I was going, do it.

00:51:43.000 Do it.

00:51:44.000 Jesus Christ.

00:51:45.000 Do it.

00:51:45.000 And he's like this with his teeth going, I'm going, do it.

00:51:49.000 Do it.

00:51:50.000 And finally he turned and backed off and then I pet him and he was wagging his tail and I was like, alright.

00:51:55.000 That was kind of scary.

00:51:57.000 Ryan Parsons got in a fist fight with his Mastiff.

00:52:00.000 Really?

00:52:00.000 Yeah, he had a Neapolitan Mastiff in college, and they got in a fist fight.

00:52:04.000 He goes, it was a real fight.

00:52:06.000 He goes, I had a fight with my Mastiff.

00:52:07.000 I'm like, maybe, maybe you did.

00:52:10.000 More likely you punched your Mastiff. 0.99

00:52:12.000 Because if it was a real fight, I wouldn't be talking to you right now.

00:52:15.000 You'd be chunks missing out. 1.00

00:52:16.000 Yeah, you'd be fucking dead. 1.00

00:52:17.000 A Neapolitan? 1.00

00:52:18.000 That's a giant fucking dog. 1.00

00:52:19.000 They're big, yeah. 1.00

00:52:20.000 I have a Regency Mastiff.

00:52:22.000 They're half Mastiff, half Pitbull.

00:52:24.000 He's about $1.40.

00:52:25.000 That's a beautiful dog, I bet.

00:52:26.000 He's a great dog.

00:52:27.000 He's old now.

00:52:27.000 He's like 12. He's had some years under him.

00:52:31.000 Did you socialize him really good?

00:52:33.000 Oh, he's a great dog.

00:52:34.000 He's the best.

00:52:34.000 Gets along with everybody.

00:52:36.000 Gets along with every dog, every person.

00:52:38.000 That's good.

00:52:38.000 I got him because his dad was on Fear Factor.

00:52:41.000 His dad was an attack dog on Fear Factor.

00:52:43.000 He put people in a bite suit and they'd try to run away.

00:52:46.000 His dad...

00:52:46.000 His dad was also the dog that they modeled.

00:52:50.000 They used him for CGI for the Hulk.

00:52:52.000 Remember one of the Hulk movies with Nick Nolte and Eric Bana?

00:52:58.000 Nick Nolte was the bad guy.

00:53:00.000 He was the Hulk's dad. 1.00

00:53:01.000 And he'd injected Hulk serum into his fucking dogs. 0.99

00:53:05.000 And so the dogs would get to a certain point and they would get angry and they'd fucking roar and they would Hulk out. 0.99

00:53:12.000 Would they turn green? 0.95

00:53:13.000 No, they were just big.

00:53:14.000 They didn't turn green.

00:53:15.000 Yeah, it seems like they should, right?

00:53:17.000 Maybe they did?

00:53:18.000 No, I don't think they did.

00:53:19.000 I think they just...

00:53:20.000 Look at him, he's looking for it.

00:53:22.000 Jamie found it, yeah.

00:53:23.000 Oh, dear God, look at that.

00:53:25.000 That's scary.

00:53:26.000 That was like real bad CGI, too, boy, when you watch that movie.

00:53:31.000 It's funny, because that wasn't that long ago.

00:53:32.000 I think that was only like 15 years ago?

00:53:35.000 What year was that, if you had to guess?

00:53:39.000 15 years ago?

00:53:39.000 They've come a long ways with CGI. So his dad, my dog, Johnny Cash, his dad, Curly, was in Fear Factor.

00:53:47.000 And that was literally what he was built like.

00:53:49.000 Wow.

00:53:49.000 But smaller than that, obviously.

00:53:51.000 That's when he hulks out.

00:53:52.000 So they took him and sort of exaggerated him.

00:53:55.000 Huh.

00:53:55.000 Basically looked like that.

00:53:56.000 You could find him.

00:53:57.000 Just Google Regency Mastiff Curly.

00:54:00.000 He was a famous stud. 1.00

00:54:03.000 It's a fucking ridiculous dog. 1.00

00:54:05.000 But the thing about the dog was when we had him on the set, he would just fucking chill. 1.00

00:54:09.000 He was a black dog, so none of those are him. 0.96

00:54:12.000 There's probably a lot of dogs named Curly.

00:54:13.000 It's alright.

00:54:14.000 It doesn't matter.

00:54:15.000 But the dog was just so friendly.

00:54:17.000 Yeah.

00:54:18.000 And then when it was time to go, when they put the bite suit on people, it was hilarious.

00:54:22.000 Because we were using Malmois for a while, and you get like a big football player type dude who's about 240. Couldn't bring him down.

00:54:28.000 They can't bring him down because they could hold on to it.

00:54:30.000 That dog's only 60, 70 pounds.

00:54:32.000 You throw him around.

00:54:33.000 Curly would grab ahold of you, and it would be like they got hit by a truck.

00:54:36.000 They would just go flying and crash to the ground.

00:54:38.000 And one of the ones that we did was actually my friend Ed's girlfriend was on the show.

00:54:43.000 And I knew her before, and I was like, oh, Jesus, I felt bad. 0.99

00:54:46.000 Because she weighed like a buck ten, and they're putting her in this fucking bite suit. 1.00

00:54:50.000 And then Curly hits her like literally like she got hit by a tree. 0.99

00:54:55.000 Like someone took a tree, one of those swinging trees, and just boom!

00:54:59.000 Did she get hurt?

00:55:00.000 She was okay.

00:55:01.000 She's a tough kid.

00:55:02.000 How many episodes of Fear Factor did you do where you were like, this is horrible to do?

00:55:06.000 Two. 0.97

00:55:07.000 One when they had to ride bulls, one when they had to drink cum. 0.92

00:55:10.000 There's the dog. 1.00

00:55:15.000 See the dog gets these people, just boom, get down, bitch. 1.00

00:55:19.000 Like, you're not going nowhere. 1.00

00:55:20.000 Oh, nice.

00:55:21.000 But the problem was with these dogs is they bite so hard that if they get a hold of a bone through the suit, they can break a bone.

00:55:27.000 Yeah.

00:55:28.000 Anyway, great dogs. 0.99

00:55:30.000 You had people drink cum? 0.99

00:55:31.000 Yeah, they drank cum. 0.99

00:55:32.000 What was it, like bowl cum? 0.97

00:55:33.000 It never aired. 0.99

00:55:34.000 It was donkey cum. 0.99

00:55:36.000 What happened was it got out on TMZ, and then they played Horseshoes, and they had to drink donkey cum and donkey urine. 0.99

00:55:49.000 That's hardcore. 0.98

00:55:50.000 It was hardcore.

00:55:51.000 There was two episodes where I said, don't do it. 0.97

00:55:54.000 One of them was riding bulls, and the other one was the donkey cum. 1.00

00:55:57.000 People got hurt, right? 0.97

00:55:58.000 The riding bulls, we got lucky.

00:55:59.000 No one got hurt.

00:56:00.000 We got lucky.

00:56:01.000 Just roll the dice.

00:56:03.000 Yeah.

00:56:03.000 Because this was the funny...

00:56:04.000 There's fucking stuntmen. 1.00

00:56:05.000 I'm sure you worked around stuntmen before. 1.00

00:56:07.000 Right. 1.00

00:56:08.000 Fucking animals. 1.00

00:56:08.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:56:09.000 They don't give a shit. 1.00

00:56:09.000 Broken bones don't mean anything to them. 1.00

00:56:11.000 Those guys are animals. 0.99

00:56:13.000 They're just some of the toughest fucking people for sure in all of show business. 1.00

00:56:17.000 And their attitude was like, eh, they'll be fine. 0.99

00:56:20.000 They'll be fine.

00:56:20.000 And so my friend Perry, who's a stunt guy, was like, don't worry about it, boo, they're stunt dogs.

00:56:25.000 Or they're stunt bulls.

00:56:26.000 I go, they're stunt bulls? 1.00

00:56:28.000 Does that fucking bull know he's a stunt bull? 1.00

00:56:30.000 Did you have a conversation with that bull? 1.00

00:56:31.000 As you understand, that's a bull!

00:56:33.000 That's a bull! 0.84

00:56:34.000 They were so big.

00:56:36.000 Because I was standing next to the person while there's the pen and they sit on top of the bull and you're right there.

00:56:44.000 So I'm standing right next to them on the platform.

00:56:46.000 And I'm like, don't do it.

00:56:47.000 There's no way you're going to hang on.

00:56:49.000 No, my first year in college wrestling at Sioux Empire up by the South Dakota border...

00:56:56.000 Middle of nowhere.

00:56:57.000 We got recruited by a guy that was an All-American at Iowa State, Johnny Johnson, who was the coach up there, right?

00:57:02.000 And myself and three other buddies, Mike Wolfe from American Pickers, wrestled with me that year up there, right?

00:57:08.000 And he's actually a tough guy.

00:57:10.000 A lot of people don't realize it.

00:57:11.000 Mike Wolfe's actually a really tough dude.

00:57:13.000 But to keep ourselves busy, we would go, all the wrestlers would go, and there was fields everywhere next to the college.

00:57:21.000 It was a small junior college in the middle of nowhere, right?

00:57:23.000 Right?

00:57:24.000 So there was this huge Angus bull in the field right by the college.

00:57:28.000 So we would go over there, and the first guy that could grab the bull's head would win the money, would put money in the pot, right?

00:57:34.000 So we're running around. 1.00

00:57:36.000 The farmer pulls up one time in his pickup truck, and he goes, what are you idiots doing? 1.00

00:57:41.000 We put money in a pot, and the first guy that can grab the bull's head wins, and that's the game we're playing, right? 1.00

00:57:47.000 And he goes, you guys stay off my property, man. 1.00

00:57:50.000 Knock this shit off. 1.00

00:57:51.000 And then we got to where the sheep would always escape another farm and come on to the lawn of the college. 1.00

00:57:57.000 And Mike Wolfe and I got in trouble one day.

00:58:00.000 We'd take these rams and we'd smack them in the forehead, palm them in the forehead to get them to jump up on their back legs and try and smash us.

00:58:06.000 And then we'd sidestep them and headlock them and throw them and stuff.

00:58:10.000 That's what we were doing for fun back then.

00:58:12.000 So, Mike Wolf, one of the ladies that worked in the cafeteria saw us doing it. 0.99

00:58:19.000 And she goes, you boys leave those animals alone.

00:58:22.000 Quit, stop doing that, right?

00:58:23.000 That's cruel.

00:58:24.000 And it wasn't hurting them.

00:58:25.000 We were just having the fun.

00:58:25.000 We were bored college kids, right?

00:58:27.000 And I said, yeah, but you should see what squirrel does to them.

00:58:32.000 And Squirrel was one of the basketball players from East St. Louis who played on the basketball team up there.

00:58:36.000 And we had guys from Miami, South Side of Chicago, East St. Louis.

00:58:39.000 You know, just tough ghetto kids who got thrown into this farm atmosphere. 0.99

00:58:45.000 It was totally foreign for them.

00:58:47.000 But we made the joke, and this was a very religious cafeteria lady. 0.99

00:58:52.000 And I said, you should see what Squirrel's doing to him.

00:58:54.000 And the next day we came in for lunch, she was scolding Squirrel about bestiality. 1.00

00:58:58.000 And he's looking at me going, you son of a bitch. 1.00

00:59:03.000 So, yeah, that was good times. 1.00

00:59:05.000 Good times, man. 0.95

00:59:06.000 Yeah, that's a ridiculous thing to do with your time.

00:59:08.000 We had nothing else to do.

00:59:10.000 I understand.

00:59:10.000 You should find something else to do.

00:59:13.000 You needed some guidance.

00:59:15.000 Well, that's the Hayward in Iowa, which is right on the South Dakota border.

00:59:20.000 Tiny little town.

00:59:21.000 The college was there.

00:59:22.000 And one night I went drinking.

00:59:25.000 And I got in a fight with a bike gang, and they were beating me with pool cues.

00:59:29.000 That's, you know, whatever, it happened.

00:59:33.000 But I had a guy, a biker, was at the urinal, and I walked into the bathroom and he goes, quit dragging your feet, ape man. 0.99

00:59:41.000 And I go, you know, people that mind their business don't get the shit kicked out of them, right? 0.99

00:59:44.000 And he goes, bring it. 0.99

00:59:45.000 So I crushed the toilet with him, right?

00:59:47.000 I beat his head on the toilet and powdered the toilet.

00:59:50.000 It's like Roadhouse.

00:59:51.000 But then the other bikers heard the commotion, and I came out of there, and they all started beating me with pool cues, and I was fighting my way out of there.

00:59:58.000 And I made my way out.

01:00:00.000 I got back to the school, and my scalps all split open everywhere, and my arms are beat to hell from blocking pool cues. 0.97

01:00:06.000 And I lost my gold necklace, so I had to go down there the next day to go back and get my friggin' necklace. 0.83

01:00:11.000 It was a big rope-chain necklace that my girlfriend at the time had bought for me. 0.87

01:00:16.000 And I walked in, and I go, I lost my chain here last night.

01:00:19.000 And the owner goes, yeah.

01:00:19.000 He goes, you put five people in the hospital last night.

01:00:21.000 He goes, don't ever come back here again, man.

01:00:24.000 Don't come back.

01:00:26.000 So that's just the way it was.

01:00:28.000 That was Iowa.

01:00:29.000 That was Iowa.

01:00:30.000 That's what we did for fun.

01:00:31.000 Well, Iowa has such a reputation for tough guys when it comes to wrestling.

01:00:36.000 I mean, the Iowa wrestlers.

01:00:39.000 You know there's Thai kickboxers. 1.00

01:00:42.000 Iowa wrestlers.

01:00:44.000 It was always this thing.

01:00:45.000 It was almost synonymous with Iowa.

01:00:47.000 When Gable was coaching, the Iowa wrestling team beat up the football team and the basketball team on numerous occasions.

01:00:52.000 He'd have to go get those guys out of jail.

01:00:54.000 They'd just beat up the whole team.

01:00:56.000 Well, I can only imagine.

01:00:57.000 If someone actually thought they were a tough guy, and they talked to those tough guys, it's like, well, we've got to show you something.

01:01:02.000 Because you're going through this life with this delusional perspective.

01:01:06.000 Lou and Ed Bannock and guys like that.

01:01:09.000 Just King Mueller, back in those days, some very, very scary wrestlers.

01:01:13.000 I don't think people truly understand the difference between them and regular human beings.

01:01:17.000 I don't think they've ever experienced it.

01:01:19.000 I think you have to lock up with them to experience it.

01:01:23.000 The explosiveness, the tendon strength, just the power, the sheer violence that those guys can bring in a short burst of energy.

01:01:32.000 Until you get used to it, and you see it all the time in fighting, right?

01:01:35.000 A guy who's never trained with guys at that level of athleticism suddenly find themselves getting mauled by a superior human being going, holy sh- I never had any idea a human like this even existed.

01:01:48.000 Well, you see it when Yoel fights.

01:01:50.000 Yeah.

01:01:50.000 When Yoel Romero gets a hold of guys.

01:01:52.000 When Yoel, you're talking about a guy who medaled in every single international competition he ever entered.

01:01:58.000 And beat Kale Sanderson when Yoel was 18 years old, right?

01:02:02.000 Yeah.

01:02:03.000 That's a scary dude.

01:02:04.000 And beat him twice.

01:02:04.000 Yeah.

01:02:05.000 He's a fucking monster. 1.00

01:02:06.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:02:06.000 And when he gets a hold of guys, you see the way he ragdolls people. 1.00

01:02:09.000 You're like, holy shit! 0.99

01:02:11.000 But that's what it is. 0.98

01:02:12.000 It's just this next level athleticism, next level strength, next level technique, and then also just being forged in the competition of that Cuban wrestling program.

01:02:24.000 Did you see the podcast I had with him last week?

01:02:27.000 No.

01:02:27.000 I had him on last week with Joey Diaz, and Joey Diaz translated for him, and they went back and forth.

01:02:33.000 Like, you always try to speak as much as you could in English, and then Joey would sort of translate the stuff that he couldn't.

01:02:38.000 But he just detailed his time in the system, in the Cuban wrestling system, and how intense it was.

01:02:44.000 I mean, think about it.

01:02:45.000 Communist country.

01:02:46.000 That's your ticket to at least leading a halfway decent life.

01:02:49.000 Well, just to eat.

01:02:50.000 He was talking about the difference between the way the elite guys would eat and where they would sleep.

01:02:55.000 They would get three meals a day.

01:02:56.000 The other guys would get two.

01:02:57.000 Wow.

01:02:58.000 And the food would be better.

01:02:59.000 Everything would be better.

01:03:00.000 That would motivate you to win.

01:03:01.000 Yeah.

01:03:01.000 And they're all together.

01:03:02.000 That's the thing.

01:03:03.000 They're all trained together.

01:03:03.000 So the guys who want your spot are right next to you.

01:03:06.000 Everybody knows, like, oh, you've got a hurt wrist.

01:03:08.000 They know.

01:03:09.000 Everybody knows everything.

01:03:10.000 And he's like, that competition just makes you a machine.

01:03:13.000 And the guy that's eating two meals a day wants three meals a day. 1.00

01:03:15.000 Fuck, yeah, he does. 1.00

01:03:17.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:03:18.000 Yeah, and then on top of that, you have these fucking incredible genetics. 0.99

01:03:23.000 I mean, Cubans have unfucking believable genetics. 1.00

01:03:26.000 Right, right. 0.51

01:03:27.000 It's just an amazing...

01:03:28.000 But that's really one of the more fascinating things about competition, is to see all these variables.

01:03:35.000 And it's to see, like, when you think you've reached this high level, oh, look at this.

01:03:39.000 There's another level past that.

01:03:40.000 Yeah.

01:03:40.000 There's another level past that.

01:03:42.000 And yet you see guys who...

01:03:45.000 In no way, shape, or form should be a champion or upper echelon, athletically or genetically, but they figured out how to do it.

01:03:51.000 Right, right, right.

01:03:52.000 Just super smart.

01:03:53.000 Yeah.

01:03:54.000 Yeah, but you see a guy, you know, I would say, you know, if you were to see, well, let me think, Smiling Sam Alvey on the street.

01:04:01.000 Right, right, right. 1.00

01:04:02.000 And you got in an argument with him for whatever reason, you think, I'm going to kick this guy's ass. 1.00

01:04:06.000 He's wearing a sweater with a tie underneath it. 1.00

01:04:09.000 Looks like a car salesman. 1.00

01:04:11.000 The guy's tougher than shit. 1.00

01:04:12.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:04:12.000 You just would never guess. 1.00

01:04:14.000 You'd never guess.

01:04:14.000 Yeah, there's a lot of those guys, right?

01:04:15.000 Evan Dunham, you'd never know.

01:04:17.000 You look at Evan Dunham, looks like a nice gentleman.

01:04:19.000 Right. 0.99

01:04:20.000 Who beat the fuck out of you. 0.99

01:04:21.000 And you just go home and go, I'm never fighting again. 1.00

01:04:22.000 This is just stupid. 1.00

01:04:24.000 Yeah, well, you'd learn that in jiu-jitsu, too. 1.00

01:04:26.000 I remember when I first started training, I'd get choked out by guys that just looked like nothing.

01:04:30.000 Computer geeks.

01:04:30.000 They weighed 150 pounds.

01:04:31.000 Yeah.

01:04:32.000 Well, especially now.

01:04:34.000 Like, I think now, jiu-jitsu has really been adopted by a lot of, like, Eddie calls them, like, nerd assassins.

01:04:43.000 Right.

01:04:43.000 Because they really are, like, these guys who are just really smart or into the technique and into the fact that...

01:04:50.000 It's jiu-jitsu by a computer programmer.

01:04:53.000 Yeah.

01:04:53.000 Right?

01:04:53.000 Yeah.

01:04:54.000 That level of thinking through things.

01:04:56.000 And it's cool.

01:04:57.000 I've rolled with a lot of guys like that and go, this... 1.00

01:04:59.000 This is stupid how good this guy is. 0.99

01:05:01.000 Especially now with the leg lock game. 0.99

01:05:03.000 With the leg lock game, it seems like strength is less of a factor.

01:05:06.000 You know, when guys are isolating legs, and you're constantly defending against that, and whatever strength that you do have in your back, in your core, in your upper body, you're not really getting a chance to utilize it.

01:05:16.000 You're just trying to defend if you don't understand the positions, and they get deep, they get a couple steps in on you, and you're like, phew, you know, it doesn't take a strong guy.

01:05:25.000 And I always loved leg locks.

01:05:27.000 I loved leg locks.

01:05:28.000 And a guy like Dave Manet, Matt Hume, those guys were all sick leg lockers, right?

01:05:33.000 Yeah, sure.

01:05:34.000 Eric Paulson, good leg locker.

01:05:36.000 A lot of those guys that were the catch-as-catch-can and the combo.

01:05:39.000 Who did Matt Hume wrestle in that?

01:05:42.000 Do you remember that one time where Peretti put together a thing with Dan Gable was the commentator with Peretti?

01:05:47.000 He went against an Olympic wrestler, I'm pretty sure.

01:05:49.000 Was it Kenny Johnson?

01:05:50.000 Kenny Monday?

01:05:51.000 Kenny Monday.

01:05:51.000 I think it was Kenny Monday.

01:05:52.000 It was either Kevin...

01:05:53.000 Yeah.

01:05:54.000 Because Kevin Jackson lost to...

01:05:55.000 Kevin Jackson lost to Frank Shamrock.

01:05:57.000 No.

01:05:58.000 That was UFC. No, that was Dan Severin.

01:06:00.000 No, Dan Henderson lost to Frank.

01:06:03.000 Frank got him in a footlock, right?

01:06:05.000 Right, right.

01:06:05.000 Yeah.

01:06:07.000 Yeah, I think it was Kenny Monday.

01:06:08.000 That's when Kurt Angle was calling the action, and I was sitting next to Kurt Angle, and Kurt was asking me questions.

01:06:13.000 What's he doing?

01:06:15.000 So he knew what to say on air and stuff.

01:06:17.000 Right, yeah.

01:06:18.000 That was an interesting thing, that submission tournament.

01:06:21.000 I thought it was great.

01:06:22.000 If they were to ever do it again, I think.

01:06:24.000 But they kind of do that now anyway.

01:06:25.000 They do do that now, but for whatever reason, it doesn't get that much attention.

01:06:30.000 Although Eddie Bravo's figured out a way to give it a little bit more attention.

01:06:33.000 Have you seen combat jiu-jitsu?

01:06:34.000 A little bit, yeah.

01:06:35.000 They're doing it basically like pancration-style slaps, like open hand strikes.

01:06:38.000 Right.

01:06:39.000 And, you know, it opens up.

01:06:41.000 It's also like what we were talking about before with there's some stuff that you can get away with in MMA because there's no headbutts.

01:06:48.000 There's some stuff that you can get away with in other styles.

01:06:50.000 Yeah.

01:06:50.000 Like in kickboxing even because there's no clinching and there's no elbows.

01:06:54.000 Right.

01:06:54.000 There's all these different little things.

01:06:56.000 Well, with jujitsu, there's a lot of positions where a guy could just smack you in the face.

01:07:01.000 You'd have to let go of the lock.

01:07:02.000 Right.

01:07:02.000 And now guys are doing that with combat jujitsu, and it's a good intermediary step between...

01:07:07.000 I think it's a good way to find out if you're meant for MMA, too.

01:07:10.000 That, too.

01:07:10.000 Right?

01:07:11.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:07:11.000 I find Eddie...

01:07:12.000 I've always found Eddie really interesting.

01:07:15.000 He's a trip.

01:07:16.000 He's definitely a trip.

01:07:17.000 And you can tell he's a thanker, you know what I mean?

01:07:19.000 He's a very analytical guy, a very analytical grappler with great flexibility. 0.99

01:07:24.000 I just always would watch him go, this guy's fucking slick, man. 0.99

01:07:27.000 Yeah, he knows a lot of shit, especially when it comes to jiu-jitsu. 0.99

01:07:30.000 And I'm talking, you know, I'm going to see him tomorrow morning. 1.00

01:07:33.000 Oh, really?

01:07:33.000 What are you doing?

01:07:35.000 You know, Sam Tripoli?

01:07:36.000 Sure, I know Sam very well.

01:07:37.000 Yeah, so I'm doing that show, and Eddie's going to be there.

01:07:41.000 I want him to explain Flat Earth to me.

01:07:44.000 He's not going to be able to.

01:07:46.000 I want to know, man.

01:07:48.000 This is what it is.

01:07:49.000 Eddie thinks that everybody's lying.

01:07:52.000 That everybody, and NASA and the government, and because of that, I believe he has a blind spot.

01:07:56.000 And that he, if they're telling you the world's round, he's saying, well, it can't be round.

01:08:00.000 Right.

01:08:00.000 And it's not a good way to think.

01:08:02.000 No.

01:08:02.000 But it's the same reason why he's so good at jiu-jitsu.

01:08:05.000 It's because he sees an idea and he just pursues it and chases after it.

01:08:08.000 And he turns it around.

01:08:10.000 But in jiu-jitsu, jiu-jitsu's like, it's all...

01:08:12.000 It's all quantified.

01:08:13.000 It's all right there.

01:08:14.000 Two bodies.

01:08:15.000 It's all very simple.

01:08:15.000 There's no mystery.

01:08:16.000 It's just figuring out a puzzle.

01:08:20.000 But I can see how people get that way because I was a guy who...

01:08:24.000 Not to go off on a tangent, but I think it's fun to think about in 1971 when I was a young boy standing in line in Albia, Iowa with my grandma and my mom when the farm collapse was happening, when Nixon took us off the gold standard, right?

01:08:37.000 Shit fell apart for the farmers right away, and my grandma was one of the first people in line to get her money out of the Farmers National Bank in Albia, Iowa.

01:08:45.000 And she got it out. 0.99

01:08:46.000 And I remember, still to this day, standing there and asking my mom and my grandma, what the hell is going on?

01:08:50.000 Why is this happening?

01:08:51.000 What's going on?

01:08:52.000 You could see the panic.

01:08:53.000 The farmers went for blocks, right, from all around that part of Iowa.

01:08:57.000 And it just, I think that's what started the wheels turning in my head about being a contrarian thinker.

01:09:03.000 You know what I mean?

01:09:04.000 Well, there's real conspiracies.

01:09:05.000 And there's real things where people misunderstand the actual facts.

01:09:10.000 Flatter's not one of them.

01:09:12.000 No.

01:09:12.000 It's just not.

01:09:13.000 It's just not.

01:09:14.000 I mean, there's so many stuff.

01:09:16.000 I mean, look, snipers use the curvature of the earth to calculate ballistics.

01:09:20.000 Yeah.

01:09:21.000 It's a real thing.

01:09:22.000 Right. 0.99

01:09:23.000 I mean, there's plenty of shit that's not real. 0.99

01:09:24.000 But I want Eddie to tell me. 0.99

01:09:26.000 I want him to explain it to me.

01:09:27.000 It's going to be frustrating.

01:09:29.000 I don't know if he believes it anymore.

01:09:30.000 He might have let it go by now.

01:09:31.000 I'm hoping he did.

01:09:32.000 I don't talk to him about it anymore.

01:09:34.000 We had a few conversations about it on the podcast. 1.00

01:09:37.000 Initially, he thought it was stupid. 1.00

01:09:38.000 He thought the flat earth concept was stupid. 1.00

01:09:40.000 And then all of a sudden, he started being open-minded to it. 1.00

01:09:42.000 I'm like, what the fuck are you saying? 1.00

01:09:44.000 What in the fuck are you saying? 1.00

01:09:45.000 This is crazy. 1.00

01:09:46.000 And he's like, and he kept going to fake the moon landing.

01:09:49.000 It's not even the same people.

01:09:51.000 Right.

01:09:51.000 Like, if they did, that was a long fucking time ago.

01:09:54.000 You're talking about people right now. 0.91

01:09:55.000 There's satellites all over the world.

01:09:58.000 There's a lot of people that think satellites are fake.

01:10:01.000 I think Eddie thinks dinosaurs aren't real.

01:10:04.000 Yeah.

01:10:04.000 Wow.

01:10:05.000 You know what's interesting?

01:10:07.000 The first time I fought in the UFC, I went into the production trailer at my first UFC. I wanted to see what was going on in there.

01:10:20.000 That always intrigued me, how TV was put together.

01:10:25.000 And I was lucky enough to bring my daughter to one of our broadcasts with AXS TV, and Lonnie, he's the expert to find the satellites.

01:10:33.000 He's got an app on his phone.

01:10:34.000 Have you ever seen guys do that?

01:10:36.000 No.

01:10:36.000 He has an app on his phone where he can punch it in and do this across the sky and spot all the satellites, right?

01:10:42.000 Oh, interesting.

01:10:43.000 So he knows how to dial into them, call up, know the coordinates to turn the dish towards, and lock onto a percentage of the satellite receptor to get it beamed back down, all that sort of stuff.

01:10:54.000 So he was teaching my daughter how all that stuff was done, and it was the first time I'd ever seen it.

01:10:58.000 I was like, this is pretty amazing stuff.

01:11:00.000 But yeah, you can see the curvature of the Earth and how the satellites are set across the horizon, right?

01:11:05.000 But you could track satellites.

01:11:06.000 The thing is, these guys don't even believe in satellites.

01:11:08.000 Here's what the problem is.

01:11:10.000 If someone has no interruption, and they put together a video, and that video, they're articulate, and they sound calm, they use big words, and they show you images that they're claiming show that the Earth is flat, that there's an ice wall outside Antarctica, and that the government won't let you go there, they start saying all these things.

01:11:30.000 If there's no one there, you know, like, Neil deGrasse Tyson type guy there, he goes, hey, hey, hey, no.

01:11:35.000 That's not true.

01:11:36.000 And here's why.

01:11:37.000 And here's how we know.

01:11:38.000 And here's what we found out.

01:11:39.000 And here's a test you can do yourself.

01:11:40.000 And here's how you can figure it out.

01:11:41.000 And here's what you can find online.

01:11:44.000 And for the longest time they were trying to say that there was no full pictures of the Earth.

01:11:48.000 That the Earth, like every photo you see of the Earth is a composite.

01:11:52.000 No. 0.98

01:11:53.000 There's a fucking Japanese satellite called the Himawari 8. It takes full... 0.99

01:11:57.000 Full images of the Earth, high resolution, every 10 minutes.

01:12:00.000 You can go Google it.

01:12:01.000 You can watch them.

01:12:03.000 NASA has one, too. 0.98

01:12:04.000 There's giant photos of the fucking Earth from 22,000 miles out or whatever the hell it is. 0.98

01:12:10.000 It's real. 0.99

01:12:11.000 It's fucking real. 1.00

01:12:13.000 There's a lot of shit to think about that's fascinating. 1.00

01:12:16.000 That's not one of them. 0.99

01:12:17.000 That's been solved. 0.99

01:12:20.000 I'm into the geopolitical and domestic policy shit. 0.99

01:12:23.000 That's where I... I was drawn more about what's really going on, you know, behind the news, all that sort of stuff. 0.99

01:12:30.000 This is bullshit. 0.92

01:12:31.000 And I was lucky to train a lot of law enforcement and then military, high-level military, and get connected to intel guys who go, Pat, we need to talk. 1.00

01:12:39.000 Like, no, you're completely off.

01:12:41.000 Let me explain things to you, right?

01:12:43.000 As far as, like, what were you completely off about?

01:12:45.000 Well, I can tell you what I was right about when I called up my buddy and I go, hey, four years ago, whatever it was, four and a half years ago, I go, We're funding ISIS, aren't we? 0.59

01:12:56.000 He goes, yeah.

01:12:57.000 Yeah.

01:12:57.000 NATO's the go-between guy.

01:12:58.000 What do you think?

01:12:59.000 Al-Nusra?

01:13:00.000 ISIS? Friggin' Al-Shabaab?

01:13:03.000 What do you fucking think? 1.00

01:13:04.000 So why do they fund ISIS? To take out Syria. 1.00

01:13:08.000 It was obvious, right? 0.98

01:13:09.000 The Mujahideen in Afghanistan was to friggin' take out the Russians. 0.88

01:13:12.000 But the way I looked at it was, when that was going on, funding the Mujahideen was to bankrupt Russia, right? 0.82

01:13:18.000 Right.

01:13:18.000 We wanted them to go bankrupt.

01:13:20.000 And it worked.

01:13:20.000 Reagan was a genius in that part.

01:13:23.000 The diabolical part, of course, is Russia and America both fighting over the resources of Afghanistan. 0.84

01:13:27.000 Right. 1.00

01:13:28.000 But ISIS was just, that's some weird shit. 0.97

01:13:32.000 When you have a 50,000-man army just appear out of nowhere with professional cameramen and editors and producers and directors making the high-level films that they were putting out, where it's every three seconds they're cutting different angles, professionally put together films of people being burned, where it's every three seconds they're cutting different angles, professionally put together films of people being This is too weird. 0.98

01:13:54.000 You know what people stop talking about? 0.97

01:13:55.000 Do you remember when they blamed Benghazi on some bullshit movie? 0.99

01:14:00.000 Yeah, some video that someone made. 0.99

01:14:02.000 Was it like the Tears of Muslims or something like that?

01:14:05.000 I forget that.

01:14:06.000 Nobody even knew it existed.

01:14:07.000 Nobody knew it existed. 1.00

01:14:08.000 And everybody knew it was bullshit. 0.99

01:14:09.000 And they were pushing that as a narrative. 1.00

01:14:11.000 Like, this is what was the motivation behind.

01:14:13.000 And everybody was like, what?

01:14:15.000 Have you had Paranto on your show?

01:14:16.000 No.

01:14:17.000 Who's that?

01:14:19.000 Paranto is a former SEAL. What's his name?

01:14:22.000 Paranto.

01:14:22.000 P-O-R-O-N-T-A. His last name is Paranto.

01:14:26.000 But he's a former SEAL. There were several SEALs, obviously, that ran to try and help the Ambassador and some of the other guys.

01:14:33.000 Paranto lived through it, but when he talks about it, they're moving massive amounts of weapons through Libya, into Syria, into other places in the Middle East, right?

01:14:45.000 It's just a fact that it's happening.

01:14:48.000 And that whole thing going down, I think, was a way for them to just cover it all up and remove and erase any people that knew about it.

01:14:56.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:14:57.000 That's the way it spells out to me pretty obvious because it's documented.

01:15:01.000 It's all documented that weapons were being moved.

01:15:03.000 And if you look at arsenal weapons manufacturing in Bulgaria, so Diliana Gotenshiva, who I had on my podcast, The Conspiracy Farm, right?

01:15:14.000 She was the Bulgarian reporter that got fired. 0.88

01:15:17.000 I didn't know you had a podcast.

01:15:18.000 Yeah, it's called The Conspiracy Farm.

01:15:19.000 Oh, okay.

01:15:20.000 I want to Google it.

01:15:21.000 We don't start the conspiracies, we just add the water.

01:15:26.000 I like that name.

01:15:27.000 Yeah, my co-host, Jeffrey Wilson.

01:15:28.000 He's a really bright guy.

01:15:30.000 It's a great name.

01:15:31.000 Yeah, so we have fun with it.

01:15:32.000 Do you have t-shirts?

01:15:33.000 Can I wear a conspiracy phone t-shirt?

01:15:34.000 Dude, I was going to bring you one, and he couldn't ship me one soon.

01:15:36.000 I will.

01:15:37.000 That's all right.

01:15:37.000 I will.

01:15:37.000 Okay.

01:15:38.000 I'll wear one.

01:15:38.000 So it's a barn with a satellite and a satellite dish down next to the barn.

01:15:45.000 Oh, that's hilarious.

01:15:46.000 So that's it, right?

01:15:46.000 And are you doing it out of Iowa?

01:15:48.000 Oh, yeah.

01:15:49.000 Perfect.

01:15:49.000 Yeah.

01:15:50.000 Yeah, it is, right?

01:15:52.000 But...

01:15:53.000 Arsenal weapons manufacturer, and she exposed the ISIS fighters, took her to their weapons caches, and there was massive amounts of artillery rounds, depleted uranium stuff, small arms stuff, and it was all arsenal weapons, Bulgarian weapons, right?

01:16:10.000 And she got fired for exposing it. 0.91

01:16:12.000 Now at the same time, Silkway Airlines, who is an Azerbaijani airline, their manifests got exposed by Bulgarian Anonymous with manifests of all the white phosphorus weapons, the depleted uranium, artillery rounds, all these shipments, massive shipments going into Turkey, going into Libya, going into the Ukraine, right? 0.96

01:16:32.000 Where a bunch of shit was going down there.

01:16:33.000 And every one of those places, who showed up to broker the deals? 1.00

01:16:37.000 John McCain.

01:16:38.000 Whoa.

01:16:39.000 John McCain, right?

01:16:41.000 And look, we can't prove it, but there's people telling me that potentially there's an offshore company that owns a big percentage of arsenal weapons manufacturing in Bulgaria, right?

01:16:51.000 So that's the kind of stuff I'm into.

01:16:54.000 Who's causing it?

01:16:55.000 Why are they causing it?

01:16:57.000 The truth, I'm just a truth seeker, right?

01:16:59.000 Right.

01:16:59.000 Would you seem like that kind of guy?

01:17:01.000 For sure.

01:17:02.000 Don't you think that that stuff is exposed at a level that's never been possible before because of the internet?

01:17:09.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:17:09.000 And that these people are probably used to operating in a certain way that they've been doing for decades, and now they're having to adjust.

01:17:16.000 Mm-hmm.

01:17:16.000 Yeah.

01:17:17.000 Well, and...

01:17:18.000 And people like you just doing these podcasts and talking about it, which opens the minds of other people and has them thinking about it.

01:17:26.000 Who are the people screaming the most?

01:17:28.000 I wasn't even a Trump supporter.

01:17:31.000 I'm a Rand Paul guy.

01:17:32.000 You've got to find a Rand Paul shirt on.

01:17:33.000 I'm a Ron Paul guy.

01:17:35.000 You've got to teach him takedown defense.

01:17:37.000 Off of a lawnmower, right?

01:17:40.000 He got blindsided in his defense, right?

01:17:43.000 Yeah, but... 0.99

01:17:43.000 What the fuck was that about? 0.99

01:17:45.000 His neighbor attacked him? 1.00

01:17:46.000 His neighbor's a lunatic, right? 0.99

01:17:47.000 Good times. 0.99

01:17:48.000 You know, but...

01:17:49.000 It's a risky thing to do.

01:17:51.000 Live right next to a guy and attack him?

01:17:52.000 Right. 1.00

01:17:53.000 Like, you're fucking burning the bridge. 0.99

01:17:55.000 I don't know what kind of sentence that guy got, though. 0.99

01:17:58.000 I haven't kept up on that.

01:17:59.000 I don't think he's been sentenced yet.

01:18:01.000 During the presidential run, I was giving speeches for Rand Paul, a couple of them, to introduce him.

01:18:05.000 So I'd give a speech, then bring him out, and I got to know him a little bit better.

01:18:09.000 Was he in Iowa?

01:18:09.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:18:10.000 Amazing dude.

01:18:11.000 We had great conversations.

01:18:12.000 I'm a big fan of his dad.

01:18:13.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:18:15.000 But the people that are yelling the most now about Trump and all the other stuff...

01:18:21.000 You wonder what they're guilty of, right?

01:18:24.000 The deep state is just, it is a way of doing business, right?

01:18:28.000 There's smash and grab.

01:18:30.000 There's pay to play.

01:18:32.000 Smash and grab is me as somebody who's very powerful in government, going after an industry, crushing it, ruining its stock, and then my buddies buy the company.

01:18:40.000 Right?

01:18:41.000 When the stock collapses and then bringing it back up.

01:18:43.000 Like the GI Bill for University of Memphis.

01:18:46.000 We go after it.

01:18:47.000 No longer will there be any GI Bill money put toward that.

01:18:50.000 The stock goes from $100 down to $3.

01:18:52.000 Obama's buddy goes in, buys it, then they go, ah, we're going to allow GI money to go back into it now.

01:18:57.000 Stock goes back up.

01:18:58.000 Right? 0.99

01:18:58.000 That's the kind of shit that's going on. 0.99

01:19:00.000 It's some bad stuff. 1.00

01:19:02.000 We just do our best to follow it, educate people, and we have a lot of people who say you're a nut.

01:19:06.000 You're wearing a tinfoil hat.

01:19:07.000 What were you just talking about, Jamie, about something that you'd seen about politicians being exempt from insider trading rules?

01:19:17.000 Someone on Twitter, I'll find a name later, but this guy.

01:19:22.000 He told me about this guy.

01:19:23.000 His name's Peter Schweizer.

01:19:24.000 He's a Stanford professor.

01:19:25.000 Secret Empires.

01:19:26.000 That's the book.

01:19:28.000 He wrote Clinton Cash also.

01:19:30.000 Yeah, there's another book that he hit me up about, but this is the one that he just wrote.

01:19:34.000 Have you had him on your show?

01:19:35.000 No, I have not.

01:19:35.000 That's a guy to have on your show.

01:19:36.000 Okay, I'd love to have him on.

01:19:37.000 How the American political class hides corruption and enriches family and friends.

01:19:43.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:19:43.000 Without a doubt, that shit's real. 1.00

01:19:46.000 Without a doubt, that shit's going on. 1.00

01:19:47.000 I mean, look... 1.00

01:19:49.000 We were just talking about this recently, about how half of what it is to be president is to get yourself into a position where after you're out, you can make these crazy speeches for these bankers.

01:19:58.000 Why is that?

01:20:00.000 I mean, it's almost like a retirement policy.

01:20:02.000 Man, I tell you what, there was a time when a good friend of mine, who was an agent for me at the time, got me involved because of all the years in MMA and martial arts, I'd met people from all over the world who had eventually moved into positions of power.

01:20:15.000 In government or cities or this or that.

01:20:18.000 And so they said, we want you to help us get our foot in the door to sell waste-to-energy projects.

01:20:24.000 So it was basically a facility that burns anything garbage.

01:20:28.000 I mean, you can burn tires in the thing at low oxygen levels, so the emissions are very low, but it generates electricity.

01:20:34.000 And in Europe, it was everybody from the city, province, that country, and the European Union, everybody wanted a piece of the projects.

01:20:44.000 That's just the way they do business in Europe and South America and other places like that.

01:20:49.000 They have to have a different model for it here, for the corruption.

01:20:52.000 They just do things differently here, and that's just the way it is.

01:20:55.000 They've made adjustments, and either way, they're going to find their way around it. 0.89

01:20:58.000 Yeah, the idea that there's no corruption is ridiculous, right?

01:21:03.000 No one thinks that.

01:21:04.000 So it's how much corruption is there, and how many people are out there exposing it, and putting their neck out there to expose it.

01:21:10.000 That's a big part of the problem, because if you really know about it, that means you're probably entrenched in the system, too.

01:21:15.000 Yeah, and the cognitive dissonance of the citizenry.

01:21:19.000 Of knowing that Hillary Clinton and a few other people sold, you know, the document just came out.

01:21:25.000 It was 15 million kilograms.

01:21:28.000 15 million kilograms of depleted uranium, yellow cake, right?

01:21:33.000 Sold to the Russians. 0.86

01:21:35.000 At what point in any part of a discussion on any planet is it okay to sell your enemy 15 million kilograms of friggin' uranium?

01:21:44.000 What was the justification behind it?

01:21:46.000 Have they agreed that this is a fact?

01:21:49.000 Oh, it's a fact.

01:21:50.000 It's a fact.

01:21:50.000 Have they agreed?

01:21:51.000 I mean, is there any dispute that this is a fact?

01:21:53.000 No, there is no...

01:21:55.000 No, but they sit there and use the excuse, well, there was eight other people that had to sign off on this, right?

01:22:02.000 What does that mean?

01:22:03.000 Right.

01:22:05.000 Suddenly that company invests $145 million in the Clinton Foundation.

01:22:12.000 Yeah, that's a big problem. 1.00

01:22:13.000 That Clinton Foundation is fucking insane. 0.99

01:22:15.000 And all these people that were blind supporters of Hillary that didn't look at that. 0.99

01:22:19.000 How do you not find a giant problem with that?

01:22:22.000 Right, right.

01:22:23.000 And that book by Schweitzer talks about it.

01:22:25.000 He goes in detail about that stuff.

01:22:27.000 Yeah, I'm sure.

01:22:28.000 How's that guy staying alive?

01:22:28.000 I'm surprised.

01:22:29.000 That's what I was just going to say.

01:22:31.000 He's not going after the Russians. 0.61

01:22:32.000 Dude, Clinton cash was bad enough.

01:22:34.000 This one's even worse.

01:22:34.000 I'm surprised he's not dead.

01:22:36.000 I wonder how many people are actually reading it.

01:22:38.000 I feel like they think that there's always going to be a certain amount of that stuff out there, and they just tolerate it, and they just, as long as it's not really fucking up their business, because it's not.

01:22:47.000 The politicians are still allowing it.

01:22:49.000 Law enforcement's still allowing it.

01:22:50.000 No one's really going after them.

01:22:52.000 It makes you wonder, like, if Hillary had actually gotten into the White House, And she faced the same scrutiny that Trump is facing right now over the Russian program.

01:22:59.000 Which we know none of this would be uncovered had she won.

01:23:01.000 Right.

01:23:02.000 We know that.

01:23:03.000 Right.

01:23:03.000 Yeah.

01:23:03.000 All of this stuff would have been swept under the rug.

01:23:05.000 Yeah.

01:23:05.000 Most likely.

01:23:06.000 All this stuff with McCabe and...

01:23:09.000 Strzok and Page and Comey and all these people of going out of their way to try and derail Trump to get these FISA court surveillance warrants to spy on a president-elect and then a sitting president?

01:23:25.000 Are you kidding me?

01:23:26.000 At what point are people not charged with treason for that?

01:23:31.000 They were doing this spying before he ever won the presidency.

01:23:38.000 Don't you think that if he was doing something wrong with the Russians, they would have friggin' made it mainstream news and busted him for it? 0.96

01:23:45.000 Yeah, there's for sure some dummies in his staff that made some inappropriate meetings and had some... 0.95

01:23:50.000 I mean, they definitely had some intentions. 0.81

01:23:52.000 But if they had something on him...

01:23:53.000 The way I look at it is this.

01:23:55.000 I mean, if you win the presidency, I'm gonna send whoever is underneath me, if I'm the president, We have to have meetings with diplomats from other countries to make the transition.

01:24:05.000 That's part of the deal, right?

01:24:07.000 It really is.

01:24:08.000 That goes on.

01:24:09.000 That's just the way it is.

01:24:11.000 Right, but that's not what they're talking about.

01:24:12.000 They're talking about before the presidency.

01:24:13.000 They're talking about having meetings with Russians long before.

01:24:17.000 Right.

01:24:17.000 Where they planned this whole thing out.

01:24:20.000 They got nothing. 1.00

01:24:21.000 They're all dirty. 0.99

01:24:21.000 They got nothing. 0.99

01:24:22.000 They got nothing.

01:24:23.000 If they had something, it would be out there.

01:24:25.000 It's that projection and diversion and everything else, because the Podestas were doing lobbying for the biggest friggin' Russian bank in the world.

01:24:33.000 Right.

01:24:33.000 In Washington, D.C. It never comes up.

01:24:36.000 It's almost like there's too many things to pay attention to.

01:24:39.000 It's like they did everything.

01:24:41.000 How do you keep up?

01:24:43.000 How do you corral it all, all the corruption?

01:24:46.000 From the stock market to natural resources to everything.

01:24:50.000 It's almost like there's too many things to pay attention to.

01:24:53.000 It's mind-boggling.

01:24:54.000 It's like a giant room full of spaghetti.

01:24:56.000 Yeah.

01:24:57.000 And you're in the middle of it, just doing this. 0.99

01:24:59.000 It's fucking insane. 0.99

01:25:00.000 That's a good way to put it. 1.00

01:25:01.000 That is what it's like.

01:25:02.000 It does that to your brain when you try to comprehend all of it.

01:25:06.000 When we do shows and we talk about this stuff, it's mind-boggling.

01:25:10.000 How many episodes have you done?

01:25:11.000 We've only done like 50 so far.

01:25:12.000 But we've got listeners in 130 countries, so we're doing pretty good.

01:25:15.000 That's nice.

01:25:16.000 We're excited.

01:25:16.000 Well, you'll get more now.

01:25:17.000 Yeah.

01:25:18.000 For sure. 0.99

01:25:18.000 Well, because you're kicking ass. 0.99

01:25:19.000 Thank you. 0.98

01:25:20.000 Well, we're going to, I mean, promoting it here, right here.

01:25:23.000 Conspiracy farm.

01:25:24.000 Go.

01:25:24.000 Go download it.

01:25:25.000 Check it out.

01:25:27.000 So when you started this out, what was the intention?

01:25:29.000 Just something you're interested in?

01:25:31.000 You know, I did Jeffrey's podcast.

01:25:33.000 It's me speaking to you.

01:25:35.000 And at the very end of it, it was three conspiracy questions.

01:25:37.000 True or false.

01:25:38.000 Right?

01:25:39.000 Okay.

01:25:39.000 And I said, can I elaborate on them, though?

01:25:41.000 Because it might be something that I've actually researched.

01:25:43.000 He goes, yeah, sure.

01:25:44.000 So we, at the end of it, He asked me, I forget what the questions were, but after we were done, I go, hey, I've always wanted to do this podcast, and I want to call it The Conspiracy Farm, and I want to talk about geopolitical domestic policy stuff, and he goes, I love it, man.

01:25:59.000 He's like, yeah, let's do it.

01:26:01.000 Absolutely.

01:26:02.000 So we've had great guests, you know, a couple Navy SEALs, former Spetsnaz terrorist hunter.

01:26:09.000 Well, if you're going to do Sam Tripoli's podcast, Tinfoil Hat...

01:26:13.000 Just understand that it's a different kind of conspiracy theory podcast.

01:26:16.000 It's like, is Bigfoot psychic?

01:26:19.000 Like those kind of questions.

01:26:23.000 And expect to get a contact high from the room.

01:26:25.000 I've always wanted to ask you about the George St. Pierre stuff with UFOs.

01:26:29.000 I think it's head trauma.

01:26:31.000 Yeah?

01:26:31.000 Yeah.

01:26:32.000 Or did he have sex with a hot green chick? 1.00

01:26:34.000 Maybe he did. 0.96

01:26:35.000 But if I had a guess, the way he was describing things is very similar to the way people describe things when they've experienced excessive head trauma.

01:26:42.000 Really?

01:26:43.000 Yeah, because he misses time.

01:26:44.000 His memory's not good.

01:26:46.000 Like, he'll get home and then he'll have groceries that he bought and left in his trunk and not even realize it.

01:26:51.000 And then he'll go out to his trunk and they're rotten.

01:26:53.000 And he's like, I don't even remember going to the store.

01:26:55.000 Wow.

01:26:56.000 The alien.

01:26:58.000 I think he's got this idea that these glitches in his mind. 0.99

01:27:04.000 It's not a fucking coincidence that the guy got punched in the head. 0.94

01:27:07.000 I think they did a stat before the Bisping fight. 0.98

01:27:10.000 I think it was more than 800 times he got hit in the head in his UFC career.

01:27:16.000 Forget about all the gym training.

01:27:18.000 Sparring and everything else.

01:27:18.000 Forget about all the other stuff.

01:27:19.000 And forget about the fights outside the UFC that he had before he got into the UFC. When he was in TKO, remember?

01:27:25.000 Yeah.

01:27:25.000 So he's experienced a lot of head trauma.

01:27:29.000 One of the symptoms of head trauma is memory loss issues.

01:27:32.000 Right, yeah.

01:27:32.000 I mean...

01:27:33.000 And Hendricks hit him hard.

01:27:34.000 A lot.

01:27:35.000 Yes, he did.

01:27:36.000 Yeah.

01:27:36.000 And he's only one guy that hit him hard.

01:27:38.000 I mean, a lot of guys hit him hard. 1.00

01:27:39.000 Matt Serra scrambled his fucking brain. 1.00

01:27:41.000 Right. 1.00

01:27:41.000 I mean, a lot of guys hit him hard. 1.00

01:27:43.000 Yeah.

01:27:43.000 And that's just outside of sparring.

01:27:45.000 I mean, that's outside of everything else that he's done.

01:27:47.000 Sparring with Rory McDonald and Wonderboy and all the other guys that he had to spar with.

01:27:51.000 Yeah.

01:27:52.000 I think that's most likely what it is.

01:27:55.000 People who have experienced a lot of head trauma, that's one of the real problems with it.

01:28:03.000 What is the dude from the Chicago Bears, that famous guy?

01:28:07.000 No, the quarterback from the Bears.

01:28:10.000 Oh, McMahon?

01:28:10.000 Yes.

01:28:11.000 McMahon was on the cover of Sports Illustrated talking about it.

01:28:13.000 That he'll be in the middle of his living room holding his keys.

01:28:17.000 He had no idea how his keys got in his hand, doesn't know where he's going.

01:28:20.000 Like, where am I going?

01:28:21.000 Like, why am I standing there holding my keys?

01:28:23.000 You just forget stuff.

01:28:25.000 Scary.

01:28:25.000 Yeah, there's connections.

01:28:27.000 Well, that's why it's so impressive that you, with your long fight career, you kickboxed, you boxed, you had a lot of MMA fights.

01:28:33.000 I think I learned early on with kickboxing and boxing, I looked at the older guys and listened to them talk and went, I don't want to be that guy.

01:28:40.000 So I started paying attention to defense.

01:28:42.000 I started watching films on great boxers with great defense, footwork, head movement, all that sort of stuff, and just...

01:28:50.000 And it was the key.

01:28:51.000 I never got hit with anything I didn't see.

01:28:53.000 I think you have sturdy genes, too.

01:28:54.000 You got them Croatian genes.

01:28:55.000 It helps.

01:28:56.000 I'm sure it helps.

01:28:57.000 I'm the smallest Croatian on the planet.

01:29:00.000 When you run into Croatians, they're all huge, like... 1.00

01:29:03.000 Mirko Krokop type characters.

01:29:05.000 Stipe Miocic, who's a bear of a human being, right?

01:29:08.000 Super...

01:29:09.000 Have you ever seen the Olympic water polo team from Croatia?

01:29:12.000 No.

01:29:13.000 The scariest dudes on the planet.

01:29:15.000 They're all massive 6'8 guys that just would drown you.

01:29:18.000 What happened to you?

01:29:19.000 There was a time where someone claimed that you had neck surgery and you didn't.

01:29:24.000 Like a doctor said something about it.

01:29:26.000 I was training for a fight with Frank Trigg outside of the UFC. It was the first round warming up and I got hit with a left hook and my neck crunched.

01:29:35.000 And my left arm dropped and it wouldn't work anymore.

01:29:37.000 Man. 1.00

01:29:38.000 I went, fuck. 0.99

01:29:40.000 It just wouldn't lift at all? 1.00

01:29:41.000 It was dead.

01:29:42.000 Like you couldn't move your hand?

01:29:44.000 No, everything was dead.

01:29:45.000 Wow.

01:29:45.000 How long did that last?

01:29:47.000 Well, here, I'll tell you.

01:29:48.000 That was the end of the first round.

01:29:50.000 I got cracked with it, right?

01:29:52.000 And I go, all right, let's pick it up the second round.

01:29:55.000 And I hit him with like four or five right hands in a row because that's all I could do.

01:29:59.000 And I crushed his nose and he had to have surgery because I was so pissed off because he blasted me, right?

01:30:04.000 And I don't think it was necessarily malicious, but we were still warming up and he cranked a left hook on me.

01:30:08.000 It was bad.

01:30:09.000 So over time, everything started to atrophy on this side of the body.

01:30:13.000 Everything started falling apart and it was very painful.

01:30:15.000 And I went to a neurosurgeon who got an MRI. Neurosurgeon goes...

01:30:20.000 He goes, your disc exploded into your spinal cord and almost severed it against the other side of your spinal canal.

01:30:26.000 And he goes, to make things worse, you have so much stenosis, there's no fluid in there.

01:30:30.000 There's no spinal canal.

01:30:32.000 It's all scar tissue crushing your spinal cord everywhere, cervically, right?

01:30:37.000 So this was bound to happen.

01:30:39.000 Over all the years of abuse, people wrenching on your neck, punching you, everything else, it just eventually gave way.

01:30:45.000 So he said, you have to have surgery.

01:30:47.000 You're Christopher Reeves if you don't.

01:30:49.000 You fall off a ladder, you're done.

01:30:52.000 You have to have surgery.

01:30:53.000 And I said, no, I'm not going to do it.

01:30:54.000 Talked to another neurosurgeon.

01:30:56.000 He said the same thing.

01:30:57.000 Then I talked to my cousin at John Hopkins. 1.00

01:31:00.000 And he goes, you're truly a moron. 1.00

01:31:03.000 You have to have surgery. 1.00

01:31:04.000 And I said, fuck you, I'm not going to do it. 1.00

01:31:05.000 So three guys tell you, three medical experts. 1.00

01:31:08.000 So I rehabbed, and I got this to come back.

01:31:10.000 How'd you do it?

01:31:11.000 There was some neural work by a guy at Palmer College of Chiropractic, which is in Davenport, Juring is his name, Dr. Dave Juring.

01:31:21.000 He's the best athlete to ever come out of Iowa, but he's a genius when it comes to rebuilding the human body.

01:31:25.000 He was the strength and conditioning guy for US Olympic team for some of the sports, and then was also on the bobsled team.

01:31:32.000 Guy was a freak.

01:31:33.000 So what kind of stuff did he do?

01:31:35.000 Decompression stuff?

01:31:36.000 No, well that, but he put me in weird positions on a table on my side, and they would block certain, they would put pressure points to stop certain nerves from working, all this other stuff, and tell me to move certain parts of my body.

01:31:48.000 Almost like raw food?

01:31:49.000 Rerouting, like rerouting of the nervous system and got things going again.

01:31:54.000 And rebuilt me, and I got to where this was back to 100%.

01:31:57.000 It happened one other time where this side, and this arm's two inches smaller than this one.

01:32:01.000 Yeah, I could see it.

01:32:02.000 And my shoulder is gone here quite a bit.

01:32:05.000 There's some things I just can't do.

01:32:06.000 I mean, I can still do pull-ups and a bunch of other stuff.

01:32:08.000 There's just things I can't do.

01:32:10.000 I was wondering if my mind was playing tricks on me, but your right arm looks smaller.

01:32:13.000 Boss went through the same thing, right?

01:32:15.000 And this is in your neck right now?

01:32:19.000 My vertebrae have fused together on their own.

01:32:21.000 They wanted to fuse them with...

01:32:22.000 What?

01:32:23.000 Yeah, chunks of bone.

01:32:24.000 They fused together on their own?

01:32:25.000 Yeah, so the surgery that they wanted to do to fuse my vertebraes together, my body did it on its own.

01:32:30.000 Right?

01:32:31.000 I've never even heard of such a thing.

01:32:33.000 Oh, yeah.

01:32:33.000 You know, long enough when the disc is destroyed and dissolves and then it just all grows together, so my vertebrae grew together on their own.

01:32:39.000 What the fuck? 0.99

01:32:40.000 That's one of the craziest things I've ever heard. 1.00

01:32:41.000 Right, so I just have to be careful.

01:32:43.000 My neck is hurting just listening to you.

01:32:43.000 I just have to be careful.

01:32:44.000 Because I've been paralyzed twice from the neck down.

01:32:47.000 I got hit with an uppercut on the forehead.

01:32:48.000 It wasn't even a hard punch.

01:32:50.000 From Jesse Lennox.

01:32:51.000 I was sparring with Jesse.

01:32:51.000 Before my last fight with Thomas Denny.

01:32:55.000 And he hit me with an uppercut.

01:32:56.000 It wasn't even hard, but the whiplash shut everything down from here down, and I went ragdoll and dropped on my knees.

01:33:02.000 Jesus.

01:33:02.000 And when I was going down, I went, oh, my neck.

01:33:04.000 And I knew that it was really bad.

01:33:07.000 And then another time I got cranked from underneath here, and everything shut down again.

01:33:12.000 Both times uppercuts?

01:33:14.000 No, somebody's head was underneath here trying to bear hug me.

01:33:17.000 Oh, okay.

01:33:18.000 But the uppercut was right before the Thomas Denny fight a couple weeks before. 0.99

01:33:21.000 And I went, well shit, I can't get hit at all now. 0.95

01:33:24.000 So I went into that Thomas Denny fight and just said, you know, he's not a powerhouse punter by any means, but I can't get hit at all. 0.99

01:33:31.000 So I just danced around for the first five minutes and then knocked him out early in the second round.

01:33:34.000 And Got out of there without getting hit.

01:33:36.000 But it's amazing the sense of urgency you get when you know you could be paralyzed.

01:33:41.000 I wish I would have fought like that my whole career.

01:33:45.000 Then you really never get hit.

01:33:48.000 I'm just glad my neck gave out before my brain did.

01:33:51.000 So your neck now, how is it?

01:33:55.000 I have to be careful.

01:33:56.000 I still have to be careful.

01:33:57.000 Have you ever thought about getting one of those artificial discs?

01:34:00.000 You know, they do that.

01:34:01.000 At this point, they would have to saw my vertebraes apart and put them in.

01:34:04.000 I've never heard of them heeling up like that, where they seal together on their own.

01:34:09.000 It does happen.

01:34:10.000 It does happen.

01:34:10.000 Wow, that's crazy.

01:34:12.000 So will your right arm come back to a normal size?

01:34:15.000 It's been like this for years now.

01:34:16.000 Wow.

01:34:17.000 I did tons of rehab.

01:34:18.000 How long ago did this happen?

01:34:20.000 Well, when I was training for the Frank Trigg fight, when it first happened, I didn't even remember.

01:34:24.000 Again, dates are just...

01:34:27.000 Think of how many fights you've called, right?

01:34:30.000 Do you remember certain years of any fight I could name?

01:34:35.000 I see you as kind of a guy with a photographic memory.

01:34:38.000 I have a memory for things that are interesting to me.

01:34:40.000 You're pretty sharp. 0.99

01:34:41.000 But if you ask my wife, she's like, this motherfucker doesn't remember. 1.00

01:34:44.000 Shit. 1.00

01:34:46.000 Very selective memory. 1.00

01:34:47.000 But with fights, I have a particularly good memory.

01:34:50.000 Everything to me, because of fighting for all those years, coaching for all those years, and doing commentary for all those years, it's one big mess of just fights.

01:34:58.000 Like, I'll remember the Hughes-Trigg fights forever.

01:35:00.000 I'll remember Tim winning the title.

01:35:03.000 I'll remember that sort of stuff.

01:35:05.000 But everything else is honestly...

01:35:07.000 Like a Jason Black, who's in a war with a guy from American Top Team.

01:35:11.000 And he comes back and he sits on the stool. 0.97

01:35:14.000 Some of the funniest shit I've ever seen was in fights, right? 0.99

01:35:16.000 You've seen it. 0.99

01:35:17.000 And I think you might have even been calling the fight.

01:35:19.000 Jason Black sits down and it's been a war for two rounds of just insanity.

01:35:23.000 And Jason Black was a great wrestler, just tough as nails kind of guy.

01:35:27.000 And I go, Jason, dude, stop boxing with this guy.

01:35:30.000 Let's go out.

01:35:31.000 Let's take him down. 0.87

01:35:32.000 Let's get him on his back. 0.75

01:35:33.000 Let's keep him there. 0.92

01:35:33.000 Let's rough him up. 0.92

01:35:35.000 And let's win this round and we win the fight and we get out of here.

01:35:37.000 And he's doing this while I'm talking to him.

01:35:38.000 He's just looking around at the crowd.

01:35:40.000 Kind of like this.

01:35:41.000 And I go, Jason!

01:35:42.000 Jason! 0.99

01:35:42.000 Fucking look at me! 0.99

01:35:43.000 And he looks at me and he goes, yeah? 1.00

01:35:45.000 And I go, what did I just tell you to do?

01:35:46.000 And he goes, Go out and dance with him.

01:35:48.000 And the Fertitta brothers are right there, and Dana, they start laughing their asses off.

01:35:52.000 And I go, whatever.

01:35:53.000 Go out and do what you want to do.

01:35:54.000 So he went out.

01:35:55.000 It turned into a brawl.

01:35:56.000 He ended up losing the fight.

01:35:58.000 Jason is one of the guys, the first guys that I saw cut weight to the point where I was like, okay, he might die. 0.99

01:36:05.000 When he went to 55, he was a fucking anatomy lesson. 0.99

01:36:11.000 Remember? 1.00

01:36:12.000 Yeah.

01:36:12.000 I mean, sure you remember.

01:36:13.000 When he went to 55, that motherfucker had zero fat. 1.00

01:36:16.000 Right. 1.00

01:36:16.000 It was crazy. 1.00

01:36:17.000 And he was really a strong guy.

01:36:19.000 I mean, if he got head position...

01:36:21.000 Underappreciated.

01:36:23.000 Underappreciated.

01:36:23.000 Yeah.

01:36:23.000 One of the toughest guys I've ever been around.

01:36:25.000 I feel like he was a tweener.

01:36:26.000 Like, maybe a little too big for 55 and too small for 70. Yeah.

01:36:32.000 I think there's been a few guys like that.

01:36:33.000 That were like, you know, real world-class fighters, but the reality of those 70s is you're dealing with guys that are cutting from 205 and up, and the reality of the 55s is that, like, that's a fucking horrible strain for your body.

01:36:46.000 Right, right.

01:36:47.000 No, I remember, you know, seeing guys cut weight and being in a lot of trouble physically, right?

01:36:52.000 Yeah.

01:36:52.000 But our thing was always make weight no matter what.

01:36:54.000 I mean, that's just the way it was.

01:36:56.000 I think I had one guy that didn't make weight for a fight in the IFL, and he got run out of the gym because of it, right?

01:37:02.000 Right.

01:37:02.000 He just got run out of the gym because everybody was so pissed at him for not making weight.

01:37:06.000 Right.

01:37:07.000 I've seen some horrible weight cuts with people, but I had a weight cut where it was in New Jersey.

01:37:12.000 The weigh-ins were the day of the fight.

01:37:14.000 Which fight was this?

01:37:14.000 Shoney Carter at Continental Airlines Arena.

01:37:16.000 The weigh-ins were the day of the fight?

01:37:18.000 That morning, right?

01:37:19.000 Why?

01:37:19.000 Just the way it was.

01:37:20.000 And the way it broke down, the way it all went down was...

01:37:23.000 I had a new gym.

01:37:24.000 A gold's gym.

01:37:26.000 Building a brand new house.

01:37:28.000 Had a brand new baby.

01:37:29.000 And I had to win the fight to have enough money for the down payment on the house.

01:37:32.000 Oh Jesus.

01:37:33.000 They're already building it.

01:37:34.000 We already signed the paperwork.

01:37:35.000 Oh Christ.

01:37:36.000 So I'm cutting weight and I've been so busy that I wasn't paying enough attention to my weight and I was struggling.

01:37:41.000 So the whole night, I stayed awake the whole night and all I thought about I know I can beat this guy.

01:37:46.000 This guy's not going to beat me.

01:37:47.000 But if he headbutts me for whatever reason and I don't win the fight and I lose that money, I lose my house, oh my god, I start to panic, right?

01:37:54.000 And when you're cutting weight like that, everything's magnified a hundred times.

01:37:58.000 Just the fear and everything else.

01:38:01.000 And all I thought about was that, water, and scrambled eggs all night.

01:38:07.000 The whole night.

01:38:08.000 And by the time it was time to weigh in, I went and knocked on Matt Hughes and Jen's pulver's door, and I go, hey man, I'm in some serious trouble right now.

01:38:16.000 Because I sucked on ice cubes all night, and I gained like two pounds or whatever.

01:38:19.000 So I had to go cut again.

01:38:20.000 What?

01:38:21.000 How did you gain weight? 0.60

01:38:22.000 Just from sucking on ice cubes all night. 0.99

01:38:24.000 You sucked two pounds of ice cubes? 0.99

01:38:25.000 I guess, yeah. 0.99

01:38:26.000 Because I didn't even know where I was at.

01:38:27.000 I was losing my mind.

01:38:28.000 Oh, wow.

01:38:29.000 So I did that all night.

01:38:31.000 So I made weight and then I went back to my hotel room and I started cramping.

01:38:35.000 Everything cramped.

01:38:36.000 I had to tie my wrestling shoes on as tight as I could possibly tie them so my feet wouldn't bend like this.

01:38:41.000 And then my calves started cramping.

01:38:43.000 Everything cramped to the point where I was curled up in the fetal position and I knew I had to fight that night. 0.99

01:38:48.000 Holy shit. 0.99

01:38:50.000 So I couldn't see right. 0.99

01:38:51.000 There was a bunch of stuff going wrong with my body. 0.98

01:38:53.000 So I called up Monty Cox in his room, and I go, you've got to get somebody to take me to the hospital to get IVs, or this shit's not happening. 0.90

01:39:00.000 He goes, alright, I'm sending Tom Sauer, right? 0.95

01:39:02.000 So you remember Tom Sauer?

01:39:03.000 Yes.

01:39:04.000 So Tom Sauer comes to get me, and everybody who knows Tom knows he had really severe Tourette's.

01:39:10.000 Really severe Tourette's.

01:39:11.000 Like if he's around black people, the N-word's getting yelled constantly. 1.00

01:39:16.000 He's around women, he's yelling, hunt, hunt, whore, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch. 1.00

01:39:21.000 The whole time. 1.00

01:39:22.000 Really loud.

01:39:23.000 So anyway, he comes and gets me, takes me to the hospital.

01:39:26.000 We're walking up to the hospital in New Jersey.

01:39:27.000 The whole hospital is all glass windows. 0.88

01:39:30.000 Everybody that works in the hospital is black.

01:39:33.000 Oh no! 0.98

01:39:34.000 Now imagine the kind of situation I'm in mentally and physically and I stop and I put my hand on his chest and I go, Tom, you cannot go in here with me.

01:39:41.000 Oh my god, you're gonna yell the n-word a million times.

01:39:43.000 They're gonna kick us out.

01:39:44.000 I'm not gonna get my IVs.

01:39:46.000 I'm not gonna be able to fight.

01:39:47.000 I'm gonna lose my house.

01:39:48.000 I was like, ah!

01:39:49.000 I was losing my mind.

01:39:50.000 And he goes, Pat, it's okay.

01:39:54.000 Chirp, chirp, chirp, click, click.

01:39:56.000 Right?

01:39:56.000 And he goes, it's fine.

01:39:57.000 He goes, I'm a Dade County paramedic.

01:39:59.000 He goes, I deal with this constantly.

01:40:00.000 It's okay.

01:40:01.000 So we walk in, we go up to the nurse at the reception desk, and he goes, hey, he goes, my friend, Click, click, click, N-word, N-word, N-word.

01:40:08.000 Oh, no!

01:40:09.000 And she looks at him and goes, say what?

01:40:13.000 And he goes, I have Tourette's.

01:40:15.000 I have severe Tourette's.

01:40:16.000 Please don't.

01:40:17.000 He goes, my friend needs an IV badly. 1.00

01:40:19.000 And she looks at me and goes, oh, shit. 1.00

01:40:22.000 Like, I look that bad. 1.00

01:40:23.000 Wow.

01:40:23.000 My eyes were way back in my head.

01:40:25.000 I was in rough shape.

01:40:26.000 So they gave me three liters of saline.

01:40:29.000 Three liters?

01:40:30.000 Yeah.

01:40:30.000 Revived me enough.

01:40:31.000 Think of like a two-liter Pepsi.

01:40:33.000 That was three of those.

01:40:34.000 And then I had another one.

01:40:34.000 Three of those.

01:40:35.000 Wow!

01:40:36.000 Three one-liters.

01:40:37.000 Yeah.

01:40:38.000 That's a lot of water.

01:40:39.000 Right, right.

01:40:40.000 And so they revived me enough.

01:40:41.000 I was still seeing double when it came fight time.

01:40:44.000 And so the first round, I just took Shoni down. 1.00

01:40:47.000 I threw him, took him down, stayed mounted on him the whole first round to get him to wear himself out.

01:40:51.000 Right, right.

01:40:51.000 Just hitting him with punches, elbows, just stuff, just not going overboard.

01:40:55.000 Right.

01:40:55.000 But I wanted him to be tired going into the second round.

01:40:57.000 How diminished are you in this state?

01:40:59.000 Bad.

01:41:00.000 Yeah, it was bad.

01:41:01.000 Like half your capacity.

01:41:03.000 Maybe, yeah.

01:41:04.000 So the second round, I just went, okay, now I've got to end it.

01:41:06.000 So I head kicked him and knocked him out.

01:41:08.000 I remember that.

01:41:09.000 And I just went, I made it out of that with the skin of my teeth.

01:41:13.000 So it just...

01:41:15.000 Weight cutting can be very extreme.

01:41:17.000 Yeah.

01:41:17.000 It really can.

01:41:18.000 But we always believed in you have to make weight.

01:41:20.000 That you sign your name.

01:41:20.000 And that's why I get so pissed off and disgusted when people don't make weight.

01:41:24.000 Yeah.

01:41:24.000 Well, it's a lack of discipline.

01:41:26.000 It is.

01:41:26.000 For sure.

01:41:27.000 Unless it's not physically possible for you to make the weight.

01:41:30.000 Like if you're a heavyweight and you want to make lightweight, that's not physically possible.

01:41:33.000 Right.

01:41:33.000 So then don't sign it to that fight.

01:41:34.000 And it's a lack of commitment.

01:41:35.000 See, that's the thing that I'm disgusted most with is that people aren't committed to what they do.

01:41:40.000 Right?

01:41:41.000 You've obviously committed to what you do.

01:41:42.000 You're very good at the things that you do.

01:41:44.000 Right?

01:41:44.000 It is.

01:41:45.000 It's obvious.

01:41:45.000 You're obviously a talented guy but you work at your craft.

01:41:47.000 Right?

01:41:49.000 You know, there came a time where I had to leave college to go and take care of my ailing mother and had to work three jobs and realized sitting in a basement that I was raised in, every time it rained, it flooded.

01:42:00.000 My feet were in water.

01:42:01.000 I woke up one morning and I was doing, you know, had started out fighting and everything.

01:42:05.000 And I said, this is it.

01:42:06.000 I'm going to win a world title.

01:42:07.000 I'm going to win a UFC title.

01:42:08.000 That's it.

01:42:09.000 This is it.

01:42:11.000 And I loaded a 9mm pistol, and I put a round in the chamber, and I put it in my sock drawer, and I said, if I don't want a world title, that gun's going in my mouth, and I'm done.

01:42:19.000 This is it, right?

01:42:21.000 So every time I fought...

01:42:23.000 I thought about that gun in my sock drawer and not wanted to go home to it.

01:42:26.000 And that's commitment.

01:42:28.000 That's what was needed for me to succeed at that point in my life.

01:42:31.000 That's the way it was.

01:42:32.000 So when I see people not, when they're talented and they're not committed, I don't want anything to do with them.

01:42:37.000 I just don't.

01:42:38.000 I don't have time for people like that.

01:42:39.000 I'll take a guy who's committed and sucks and train him every day because I love his commitment.

01:42:45.000 Well, there's some guys that just make some real critical errors, but they're incredibly talented, like Nurmagomedov.

01:42:51.000 Like, you know, when he missed the fight with Tony Ferguson, and he literally, his body was shutting down.

01:42:56.000 They had to take him to the hospital.

01:42:57.000 All comes to preparation, though.

01:42:58.000 He should have prepared better.

01:42:59.000 Yeah, he should have gotten lighter beforehand.

01:43:02.000 He should have watched his diet.

01:43:03.000 Now that he has a nutritionist, he made Wade pretty easy for his last fight with Barboza, and now he's gonna be fighting for the title.

01:43:08.000 And the guy's a monster. 1.00

01:43:09.000 He's a fucking monster. 1.00

01:43:11.000 But, you know, Askren had a real good point. 1.00

01:43:13.000 What they do with 1FC, I think, is the way to do it.

01:43:16.000 You know, with 1FC, they test you.

01:43:18.000 They have a hydration test.

01:43:20.000 And they test you, and whatever weight the champions are, they just bumped everybody up a notch.

01:43:24.000 And they bumped him up to 185. And they're like, there's no cutting weight here.

01:43:29.000 And I think that's just an unfortunate part of martial arts. 0.99

01:43:32.000 Is this weight cutting shit? 0.99

01:43:33.000 Well, it's with wrestling, it's with boxing. 0.99

01:43:35.000 Think about, you know, they complain about the fighters cutting weight.

01:43:39.000 That's for, you know, three, four times a year.

01:43:42.000 Really?

01:43:42.000 It's not that hard.

01:43:44.000 Try cutting weight your entire life every wrestling season.

01:43:47.000 And when you wrestle during the winter, then spring, summer for freestyle and Greco.

01:43:51.000 That was probably the thing that made me so small compared to my brothers.

01:43:56.000 They were all 6'4", 6'5". 0.81

01:43:57.000 I cut weight from 6th grade all the way through high school and into college and then fighting.

01:44:02.000 During my growing years, though, I was starving.

01:44:05.000 That's just the way it was.

01:44:06.000 And so it stunted my growth, most likely.

01:44:08.000 I'm sure it did.

01:44:09.000 Yeah, I knew a lot of guys from wrestling that were like that.

01:44:12.000 Their brothers were big and they were small.

01:44:13.000 But I think that it's just unnecessary for MMA. I mean, you're dealing with professional athletes at the highest level of the game.

01:44:19.000 I think they should just cut it out.

01:44:21.000 I think they should implement the 1FC. It's just never going to happen, though.

01:44:24.000 Everybody's going to look for that edge, right?

01:44:26.000 If they do the 1FC rules, they test you three times.

01:44:29.000 They test your weight.

01:44:30.000 They get a base weight off of you.

01:44:31.000 They get hydration levels every time.

01:44:32.000 As long as everybody has to follow that same...

01:44:34.000 Yeah.

01:44:34.000 Well, of course.

01:44:35.000 Look, everybody has to follow the USADA rules.

01:44:37.000 Right.

01:44:37.000 I don't think...

01:44:38.000 I think the rules, like, in reference to guys using performance-enhancing drugs, it's just as critical to keep guys from fighting dehydrated or from being dehydrated.

01:44:48.000 Yeah.

01:44:49.000 Now, it's...

01:44:49.000 I mean, obviously, there's risks.

01:44:51.000 Yeah.

01:44:51.000 You know, fighting dehydrated.

01:44:53.000 You saw the...

01:44:53.000 Which boxing match was it?

01:44:55.000 Was it...

01:44:56.000 God, a little Italian dude got the hell beat out of him. 1.00

01:45:00.000 Was it...

01:45:02.000 Who fought Ward three times in wars?

01:45:05.000 Mickey Ward.

01:45:06.000 Arturo Gatti fought Camacho.

01:45:10.000 Joe Camacho? 0.99

01:45:12.000 What the fuck was his name? 1.00

01:45:13.000 A kid from Maine. 1.00

01:45:14.000 Louis DeMaine.

01:45:15.000 But he wrecked him.

01:45:16.000 He destroyed him because he was a lot bigger.

01:45:18.000 So there's risks, obviously.

01:45:20.000 Who was that?

01:45:23.000 Pull up Arturo Gotti's professional record.

01:45:26.000 I remember his name was Joe.

01:45:29.000 He was from Lewiston, Maine.

01:45:31.000 He's a talented guy.

01:45:32.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:45:32.000 And Arturo Gotti looked like he was two weight classes bigger than him, and he fucked him up. 0.98

01:45:36.000 Right. 0.99

01:45:37.000 Yeah.

01:45:39.000 Oh, go ahead.

01:45:40.000 If you gotta pee, go ahead.

01:45:41.000 He's writing it down.

01:45:42.000 What do you got here?

01:45:43.000 You just edited it?

01:45:44.000 Go way back.

01:45:45.000 No, we're live.

01:45:46.000 Joe Gamache.

01:45:47.000 I needed a bucket. 0.99

01:45:48.000 Joey Gamache.

01:45:49.000 That's who it was.

01:45:50.000 Joey Gamache.

01:45:51.000 I remember that.

01:45:52.000 That was horrific.

01:45:53.000 That was 2000. Man, time flies.

01:45:55.000 How crazy.

01:45:57.000 Pat Melchich.

01:45:59.000 Tough guy. 0.98

01:46:00.000 Can't hold his piss. 0.68

01:46:01.000 Now we know. 0.96

01:46:02.000 That's probably why I had a hard time cutting weight.

01:46:04.000 It doesn't make any sense.

01:46:06.000 Pull that fight up.

01:46:07.000 I'm gonna see that fight.

01:46:09.000 Arturo Gatti, Joey Gamache.

01:46:11.000 That was a disturbing one.

01:46:13.000 The thing is, you see so many of those kind of KOs in MMA. It makes you realize, yeah, Arturo Gatti was just far bigger than him in this fight.

01:46:24.000 And he was also...

01:46:25.000 This is Arturo Gatti when he was really world class, too, at the top of his game.

01:46:30.000 Aren't they working on a Gatti movie or something?

01:46:32.000 Well, you know, he was killed by his girlfriend.

01:46:35.000 He was killed by his girlfriend.

01:46:36.000 She got away with it, or his wife. 0.95

01:46:37.000 His wife was this Brazilian chick. 1.00

01:46:40.000 And she got out of jail.

01:46:41.000 When she got out of jail, she was smiling.

01:46:43.000 It's really disturbing.

01:46:44.000 He got clipped there with a left hook.

01:46:46.000 It was real bad.

01:46:47.000 Like, um...

01:46:49.000 They think that there was some severe...

01:46:50.000 Oh, there's the KO. They think there's some severe corruption involved in her acquittal because she got acquitted in Brazil.

01:46:59.000 And they said that he committed suicide, but he had some sort of blunt force trauma on his head.

01:47:07.000 It was a big deal.

01:47:09.000 And it was very sad for a lot of people that were Arturo Gatti fans because...

01:47:14.000 His fights with Mickey Ward were...

01:47:16.000 There's fights where guys are matched perfectly.

01:47:20.000 Where it's like their skill level...

01:47:22.000 We're talking about Arturo Gatti and Mickey Ward and how Gatti was...

01:47:26.000 Pat Miletic returns from the restroom.

01:47:28.000 How Gatti was killed by his girlfriend or his wife.

01:47:32.000 Right.

01:47:32.000 And acquitted.

01:47:33.000 She was acquitted.

01:47:34.000 And it was pretty obvious that someone murdered him and they passed it off as a...

01:47:40.000 Because of domestic or something?

01:47:42.000 No, no. 1.00

01:47:43.000 She fucking killed him, man. 1.00

01:47:44.000 And when she got out of jail, she was smiling. 1.00

01:47:49.000 They're taking pictures of her leaving jail.

01:47:51.000 I think it was just a Brazil job.

01:47:55.000 Corruption in Brazil is bad. 1.00

01:47:57.000 They tried to get rid of the fucking president recently, right? 1.00

01:48:00.000 I don't know what happened with that. 1.00

01:48:01.000 They were just stealing money, period.

01:48:03.000 Right?

01:48:03.000 There's some severe corruption in Brazil and apparently, in this case, most people think that she killed him and that she got away with it.

01:48:11.000 Yeah.

01:48:11.000 To get an understanding, too, of the Brazilian people, you have to read a book called Te Guerrero.

01:48:16.000 Have you ever heard of that book?

01:48:17.000 No.

01:48:18.000 I saw The City of God, though.

01:48:20.000 Yeah? 0.99

01:48:20.000 You want to understand fucking Brazilians, watch that movie, City of God. 0.99

01:48:24.000 I've never heard of it. 1.00

01:48:25.000 Holy shit. 0.99

01:48:26.000 Go ahead, tell me about this movie and I'll tell you about this book, rather. 0.95

01:48:29.000 So El Tegrero was a book about Sasha and Ernst Semmel, two Russians who had engineering degrees, who went to Brazil around 1920, 1921 during the Diamond Rush, right?

01:48:41.000 And this is when, ironically, I think, when the Gracie's started learning jujitsu, right?

01:48:47.000 About the same...

01:48:48.000 So Ernst and Sasha Semmel both were catch-wrestling guys and boxers.

01:48:53.000 Just tough Russians, right? 1.00

01:48:55.000 We know how tough Russians are. 1.00

01:48:56.000 So anyway, they are working their way through Brazil and through the Mato Grosso, stopping at ranches and towns, fixing guns, because the Brazilians didn't know how to fix their guns, to pay their way further in as they were getting towards the rivers and all that sort of stuff, and to find diamonds.

01:49:13.000 That was their thing.

01:49:14.000 But during all of this, And Sasha Semmel was fighting no-holds-barred fights against Paraglion Strongman and all this sort of stuff in the ring.

01:49:25.000 And then he became a guy who was what's called a tegrero, a guy who can use a spear and kill one of the big cats in the jungles back then that was killing the cattle, killing the ranch hands, all this sort of stuff.

01:49:36.000 These are 400-pound cats, right?

01:49:37.000 These are big, scary panthers in the jungle.

01:49:40.000 So he went and sought out and found an Indian, a Brazilian Indian, who was supposedly a toguero, the expert. 1.00

01:49:49.000 And he found this guy, and the guy's just drunk, just completely drunk.

01:49:52.000 And he goes, I want you to take me and teach me how to do this.

01:49:55.000 And so they go, and the guy's drinking the whole time.

01:49:58.000 And he goes, they run across a big cat, and what these cats would do is riflemen on horses would go track the cats.

01:50:05.000 The cats would double back on them, take them off their horse and kill them, right?

01:50:09.000 So they were killing riflemen.

01:50:10.000 So these cats were smart.

01:50:12.000 So this guy taught him, though, he watched this guy drunk kill a 400-pound cat with a spear.

01:50:17.000 And then he taught him how they would sit on their paws, whether they were going high to attack you, whether they were coming low, how to position the spear, all that sort of stuff.

01:50:26.000 So, Sasha Semmel became a white guy who killed 33 big cats for ranches, right? 0.64

01:50:31.000 What? 0.87

01:50:31.000 With a spear? 0.87

01:50:32.000 Yeah, it's the coolest.

01:50:34.000 You couldn't write it any better, but to tell you about the Brazilian mindset, there was a guy in one of the gunsmith, blacksmith shops where they were fixing guns for people.

01:50:45.000 That this one Brazilian had an attitude, and Sasha insulted him in front of the friends.

01:50:50.000 So this guy, then, once you insult a Brazilian back in those days especially, they have to kill you because you disrespected them so badly in front of their family and friends.

01:50:58.000 And they're just hot-blooded people, right?

01:51:01.000 You've been around enough Brazilians, they're hot-blooded people.

01:51:03.000 Vanderlei Silva, when he loses his temper, it's a pretty scary dude.

01:51:07.000 So this guy tracks them for a while, and then they hire a guy that's the sheriff of Pasifundo, who has a necklace of human ears to prove he brings back the ears of the person you paid him to kill, and that's how he got paid, right?

01:51:20.000 So he had a necklace of human ears, and he was hunting Sasha and Ernst.

01:51:23.000 It's the coolest book you've ever read.

01:51:24.000 Wow.

01:51:25.000 It's incredible.

01:51:25.000 How do you spell it?

01:51:26.000 T-I-G-R-E-R-O. But it's a rare book.

01:51:32.000 A friend of mine gave it to Guerrero.

01:51:37.000 It's a rare book.

01:51:38.000 It's hard to find.

01:51:40.000 And John Wayne was going to make a movie about it.

01:51:42.000 But they couldn't do the movie.

01:51:44.000 They were going to do it in the 50s or whatever it was.

01:51:46.000 But they couldn't because the Amazon was still too dangerous.

01:51:49.000 There's cannibals everywhere and all kinds of stuff.

01:51:51.000 And malaria and everything else.

01:51:53.000 So there's actually a documentary about going there.

01:51:57.000 To do the site surveys and all that sort of stuff, and they went...

01:52:00.000 Did they have malaria in South America?

01:52:02.000 I think so.

01:52:03.000 I thought malaria was just an African disease.

01:52:05.000 In the Amazon and stuff like that.

01:52:06.000 Really?

01:52:07.000 Right.

01:52:07.000 Well, I'm sure they've got plenty of diseases.

01:52:09.000 But yeah, the cannibals, that's like what got that explorer, that English explorer in the lost city of Z, right? 0.77

01:52:15.000 I've never heard of that.

01:52:16.000 Yeah, The Lost City of Z is a book that they turned into a movie a couple of years ago about this guy, and it turned out that what he had discovered has now been proven that there was some ancient systems there, some ancient...

01:52:29.000 Civilization?

01:52:30.000 Yeah, civilization, but also irrigation systems, and they've figured out that they had all these roads and stuff because of satellite imagery.

01:52:37.000 Wow.

01:52:38.000 And some new technology where they can look through the bushes and all the jungle foliage and stuff and see structures.

01:52:46.000 Look at this dude.

01:52:48.000 There he is.

01:52:50.000 Is that a spear right next to him?

01:52:52.000 Is that a gun or a spear?

01:52:54.000 A gun with a bayonet on it.

01:52:55.000 But there's pictures of him with spears going up against cats, too.

01:52:59.000 Jesus Christ, dude.

01:53:01.000 He was hardcore, man.

01:53:03.000 Wow, there's a spear.

01:53:04.000 That's a spear. 1.00

01:53:05.000 What a fucking animal. 1.00

01:53:07.000 Jesus Christ, that's so crazy. 1.00

01:53:09.000 Yeah, think about that.

01:53:10.000 I spoke to his son.

01:53:11.000 I was writing a screenplay on his life.

01:53:15.000 Wow.

01:53:15.000 And I talked to his son, Sasha Jr., about it, and he eventually just didn't want to do the life rights thing and all that.

01:53:23.000 What if they ate the Jaguars?

01:53:25.000 I have no idea.

01:53:26.000 Did you know mountain lion's delicious?

01:53:29.000 Is it?

01:53:30.000 I have people that say it's their favorite food.

01:53:32.000 Really?

01:53:33.000 Yeah.

01:53:33.000 Yeah, I had no idea you could even eat it, but it's apparently a more delicious version of pork.

01:53:39.000 Wow.

01:53:39.000 Yeah, it's supposed to be fantastic.

01:53:41.000 Mountain lion loin, like the back loin, back strap from a mountain loin.

01:53:45.000 Mountain lion, yeah.

01:53:46.000 There's things I'll eat and things I won't.

01:53:47.000 I don't know if I'd eat a predator. 0.98

01:53:48.000 I'd eat the fuck out of a mountain lion. 0.99

01:53:50.000 Yeah? 1.00

01:53:50.000 I don't like them. 1.00

01:53:51.000 Yeah, I eat them.

01:53:52.000 One of them killed my dog when I lived in Colorado.

01:53:54.000 Really?

01:53:55.000 Yeah.

01:53:56.000 I've seen two of them.

01:53:57.000 I saw that one, and I saw one of them in Santa Barbara.

01:54:00.000 Oh, really? 0.97

01:54:01.000 It was actually driving through Montecito, a real nice neighborhood, and I saw this thing run across the road, and at first I thought it was a coyote, and then I saw the tail, and I went, oh, shit, that's a cat. 0.99

01:54:10.000 Wow. 0.85

01:54:10.000 Then I realized it was a mountain lion. 0.85

01:54:11.000 Was it a big cat?

01:54:12.000 Not that big.

01:54:13.000 No?

01:54:13.000 50, 60 pounds.

01:54:15.000 Because there's some big ones.

01:54:15.000 There's obviously some massive ones out there.

01:54:17.000 Fucking giant ones. 0.99

01:54:18.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:54:19.000 Colorado's got some fucking whoppers. 1.00

01:54:21.000 And the coyotes, the coyotes where I live, they're everywhere. 0.99

01:54:24.000 You ever see the picture of the one?

01:54:25.000 We're supposed to get that.

01:54:27.000 Whatever happened with that?

01:54:28.000 The Hollywood sign with the cat?

01:54:30.000 We were supposed to buy that.

01:54:32.000 I need to get...

01:54:33.000 I found the place to get it.

01:54:34.000 Yeah.

01:54:35.000 Let me revisit that and buy that thing.

01:54:38.000 Because there's an iconic photo, to me, that just symbolizes our intrusion into the wild world and the consequences of it.

01:54:47.000 There's an enormous cat that lives in the Hollywood Hills.

01:54:50.000 Okay.

01:54:51.000 And there's a photo of him.

01:54:52.000 Look at this.

01:54:52.000 This is taken by a camera trap.

01:54:54.000 This is a real photo of this fucking cat. 1.00

01:54:57.000 Oh, they've got him tagged. 1.00

01:54:57.000 They've got a collar on him. 1.00

01:54:58.000 They've got a collar on him.

01:54:59.000 They know the cat.

01:55:00.000 I had a...

01:55:01.000 I forget the guy's name.

01:55:02.000 The gentleman that we talked about the other day, that was the Ranger, was explaining to us how they do it. 0.98

01:55:08.000 They have to dart this fucker every couple of years when the collar goes dead. 0.99

01:55:12.000 So every couple of years this guy goes into fucking dreamland like George St. Pierre. 0.99

01:55:16.000 And I lost the time and comes back. 0.99

01:55:20.000 Oh, there's him with a deer.

01:55:21.000 Oh, wow.

01:55:22.000 Yeah.

01:55:22.000 It's like digging a hole, I guess.

01:55:24.000 No, the coyotes are ruthless where I live, man.

01:55:26.000 They're everywhere. 1.00

01:55:27.000 Oh, they're fucking everywhere. 1.00

01:55:27.000 One killed my chicken just two days ago. 1.00

01:55:30.000 Oh, really?

01:55:30.000 Yeah, I have chickens.

01:55:31.000 Yeah.

01:55:31.000 Yeah, I was out in the backyard.

01:55:33.000 I saw the cunt jump on the roof of the chicken coop and then jump over the top of the fence. 1.00

01:55:37.000 They're so graceful, though. 1.00

01:55:39.000 They're smart.

01:55:40.000 Oh, so smart, man.

01:55:41.000 One of my good buddies who...

01:55:44.000 He sold his company to Orkin.

01:55:46.000 So he was an expert at getting rid of deer, getting rid of coyotes, getting rid of anything off your property, getting rid of raccoons out of your house, whatever, right?

01:55:54.000 He's the guy that started trapping when he was 10 years old, right?

01:55:58.000 And some of my buddies did that and he was one of them.

01:56:00.000 But he became the expert, sold his company to Orkin for a lot of money.

01:56:04.000 But he's the first and foremost guy besides one other guy, I think.

01:56:09.000 Worldwide that is the expert in trapping coyotes.

01:56:12.000 And when he explains it to you, you sit there and go, how smart?

01:56:16.000 If there's anything out of place, they never take the same way back to their den ever.

01:56:20.000 They always go a different route.

01:56:21.000 They're smart about covering their tracks.

01:56:23.000 And to trap them, he goes, if you do one thing wrong, they recognize it right away and they're gone.

01:56:29.000 So he had to go and really study research.

01:56:32.000 There's a great book by Dan Flores.

01:56:34.000 It's called Coyote America.

01:56:36.000 And Dan is a professor at, I think, was he from a university in New Mexico?

01:56:41.000 He's from New Mexico.

01:56:43.000 Genius guy. 0.99

01:56:44.000 But he went into great detail about how intelligent these fucking things are, about how Native Americans used to think they were gods, that they were tricksters. 1.00

01:56:53.000 And they're basically wolves. 1.00

01:56:55.000 They're a small wolf.

01:56:56.000 Miniature, yeah.

01:56:56.000 They're just a miniature wolf.

01:56:58.000 Super intelligent.

01:56:59.000 My old house that I had, that had some timber on it and stuff, I had a fox down across the creek on the hillside.

01:57:05.000 I'd watch the fox coming back with squirrels and rabbits every morning at 4 or 5 when I'd be up to get workouts in.

01:57:11.000 I'd be drinking coffee. 0.97

01:57:12.000 I'd have turkey vultures on my friggin... 1.00

01:57:14.000 Turkey vultures are this big, man. 0.97

01:57:16.000 They're massive.

01:57:16.000 And they'd sit on the railing of my porch outside.

01:57:20.000 I hear my wife scream.

01:57:22.000 Just shriek and go, Jesus! 1.00

01:57:24.000 I go, what? 1.00

01:57:25.000 She goes, what the fuck are those things? 0.99

01:57:28.000 Was she not from around there? 0.99

01:57:29.000 No, she's from Montreal. 1.00

01:57:31.000 Her first language is French.

01:57:32.000 She's a city girl, all that sort of stuff.

01:57:34.000 Oh, wow.

01:57:34.000 He brought her to Iowa.

01:57:35.000 Yeah.

01:57:36.000 Well, she was studying to be a doctor of chiropractic at Palmer, which is in Davenport, Iowa.

01:57:42.000 And so, you know, the thing is, though, I had eagles, owls, hawks, herds of deer, coyotes, all kinds of crazy stuff running through my yard constantly.

01:57:51.000 And that's when I had the mastiff and a shepherd and some other stuff that...

01:57:56.000 My mastiff wanted to kill everything that came into my yard.

01:57:59.000 Oh, for sure. 0.99

01:58:00.000 A big-ass dog like that?

01:58:01.000 Iowa, that's one of the best places in the world for whitetail deer.

01:58:06.000 They're huge.

01:58:06.000 I have a buddy of mine, my friend John Dudley.

01:58:08.000 He bought a farm out in Iowa just to hunt whitetails.

01:58:12.000 Yeah, so the Milletich farm is down in southern Iowa.

01:58:16.000 And my grandma on the other side, her farm was down there also.

01:58:19.000 And it's, you know, obviously a lot of timber also.

01:58:22.000 And it's the deer you see down there.

01:58:24.000 And even, you know, in Benton, North Iowa, where I live, which is right next to the Mississippi River, the deer are huge.

01:58:29.000 I see a deer in Texas and they look like a German Shepherd.

01:58:32.000 Yeah, it's interesting, right?

01:58:33.000 You know what that is?

01:58:34.000 That's the warmth.

01:58:36.000 And the corn.

01:58:37.000 There's that, too.

01:58:38.000 Corn, soybeans, all that sort of stuff.

01:58:40.000 They're well-fed all the time.

01:58:42.000 Dude, I hit a deer, what was it, a year and a half ago with my F-150, and all it was was his chest hit the front of the quarter panel and scraped down it and destroyed the whole side of my truck.

01:58:53.000 Just destroyed it.

01:58:54.000 They're that big.

01:58:54.000 They're tanks.

01:58:55.000 Now imagine hitting a moose.

01:58:57.000 My dad hit a moose.

01:58:58.000 Almost killed him.

01:58:59.000 Oh, Jesus.

01:59:00.000 The vehicle caught on fire because the moose crushed into the engine compartment and caved in the front of the vehicle, and then it all caught on fire. 0.83

01:59:10.000 My dad had to friggin' go out to kick the back window out to get out.

01:59:12.000 Jesus Christ. 0.72

01:59:13.000 Yeah.

01:59:14.000 And if you honk at a moose, if you stop and then honk at a moose... 1.00

01:59:17.000 They'll kick your ass. 1.00

01:59:17.000 They'll run and smash your car. 1.00

01:59:19.000 Yeah.

01:59:19.000 Yeah, so you just...

01:59:20.000 Seeing a moose...

01:59:22.000 I went on a fishing trip, one of the many fishing trips I went on in Canada with a friend of mine, Mark Lewis.

01:59:27.000 And we were in a V-bottom boat, there was three of us, and we were going, the English River system, if you ever want to go fishing in the summer for badass fish, I mean, you'll wear out catching fish up there.

01:59:37.000 It's north of Lake of the Woods.

01:59:39.000 And we were going across the lake, and the English River system is massive, and it's endless amounts of islands.

01:59:45.000 You can get lost real easy up there.

01:59:47.000 But we were cutting across the lake, and we got into this bay, and there was a moose swimming across the bay, you know, the huge rack on it and everything else.

01:59:54.000 And my buddy Mark goes, pull up next to it.

01:59:57.000 I go, what? 0.80

01:59:58.000 He goes, yeah, just pull up right to its ass end. 0.99

01:59:59.000 So I pulled up kind of just on its ass, and he jumps out of the boat on its back. 0.98

02:00:04.000 Oh, no, he didn't. 0.98

02:00:06.000 Yeah.

02:00:07.000 Oh, my God.

02:00:07.000 So he's riding on the back of the moose, and the moose is doing this, trying to get to him.

02:00:12.000 And finally, he jumps off, climbs back in the boat.

02:00:14.000 We turn away, and right then, the moose hit shallow ground and came up right after.

02:00:18.000 He would have been dead.

02:00:20.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:00:21.000 It's a big fucking animal. 0.99

02:00:23.000 They're one of the rare deer species that almost regularly charges people. 1.00

02:00:27.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:00:27.000 Yeah, they fuck people up all the time. 0.98

02:00:29.000 They run into Duluth, Minnesota in downtown and smash everybody. 0.99

02:00:32.000 Yeah, they just stomp people in Alaska, too. 0.98

02:00:35.000 And it's usually, the problem is if you find a female that's with her babies, that's when you're in real, real trouble. 0.99

02:00:42.000 Right, right.

02:00:42.000 Yeah.

02:00:42.000 So do you hunt much?

02:00:43.000 Yeah, a lot.

02:00:44.000 Do you?

02:00:44.000 Yeah.

02:00:45.000 Where do you hunt usually?

02:00:47.000 I've hunted in Iowa.

02:00:48.000 I hunted in Iowa for whitetail last year.

02:00:50.000 Southern Iowa?

02:00:51.000 He's outside of Des Moines.

02:00:53.000 Okay.

02:00:53.000 About like 45 minutes outside of Des Moines.

02:00:56.000 I hunt Utah.

02:00:58.000 I shot an elk in Utah this year.

02:01:00.000 I got another elk in Central California.

02:01:06.000 I try to go to as many places as possible.

02:01:08.000 I'm going next month.

02:01:09.000 I'm going to Lanai for axis deer.

02:01:11.000 Okay.

02:01:11.000 Mostly bow hunt.

02:01:12.000 That's what I do most of the time.

02:01:13.000 That's cool.

02:01:13.000 Yeah, I love it.

02:01:14.000 Got a hell of a bow hunting thing set up in here.

02:01:16.000 Yeah, it's a pretty bad aspect there, yeah. 0.91

02:01:18.000 Sick!

02:01:18.000 45-yard indoor range.

02:01:20.000 Yeah, that's cool.

02:01:21.000 It's good.

02:01:21.000 Keep practice.

02:01:22.000 The doctor that I told you about, Tyson Cobb, the orthopedic surgeon that fixed Tim's arm, he was a bow hunter who went and got crocodile in Africa, you know, big all-giant game, stuff like that.

02:01:35.000 You know, the stuff that he hunted was, I mean, you know, killing a grizzly with a bow is some scary stuff.

02:01:41.000 Yeah, that's a real risky proposition.

02:01:44.000 Yeah, but he did stuff like that.

02:01:45.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:01:46.000 My friend Dudley that I was telling you about that lives in Iowa, he does that too.

02:01:50.000 He goes all over the world and hunts.

02:01:52.000 You miss.

02:01:53.000 Yeah, it's very, very risky.

02:01:55.000 Very risky.

02:01:56.000 Right.

02:01:56.000 But, you know, the thing about the grizzly hunting is, like, people don't like it.

02:02:04.000 Like, it's gotten to the point where in BC they've outlawed it.

02:02:07.000 Right.

02:02:07.000 And they really shouldn't have.

02:02:09.000 And the reason being is that you've got to control the populations because there's nothing that eats them.

02:02:14.000 Right, right.

02:02:15.000 Except them. 0.95

02:02:16.000 They're all cannibals. 1.00

02:02:17.000 All grizzlies.

02:02:18.000 Even black bears are all cannibals.

02:02:19.000 They eat the cubs all the time.

02:02:22.000 And if one of them dies, like if you, I've been black bear hunting before, and if you shoot a black bear and like maybe you shoot it like right before dark and it runs off in the bush and you don't want to go after it, you come back in the morning, bears are eating it.

02:02:33.000 Yeah.

02:02:33.000 They eat their own.

02:02:35.000 I've just been a guy that, you know, I don't have time to hunt.

02:02:38.000 I've gone deer hunting a couple times.

02:02:39.000 I just never, you know, I'm more efficient.

02:02:41.000 I love to fish.

02:02:42.000 I do too.

02:02:42.000 Right.

02:02:43.000 So that's my thing.

02:02:43.000 What kind of fishing do you do?

02:02:46.000 I've fished for shark off a beach before.

02:02:48.000 That's another thing that people get mad at.

02:02:50.000 They get mad if you eat sharks now.

02:02:51.000 Well, we let them go.

02:02:52.000 We let them go.

02:02:53.000 That's not a big deal.

02:02:54.000 But I watched a guy from Black Bart's tackle company.

02:02:58.000 They taught me how to do it off the beach.

02:03:00.000 These guys are catching 14-foot hammerheads off the beach, dude.

02:03:03.000 Do you know one of the best places to fish for sharks, rather, is off of Catalina?

02:03:07.000 Oh, really?

02:03:07.000 Right out here.

02:03:08.000 For Great White?

02:03:09.000 No, for Mako.

02:03:10.000 Okay.

02:03:11.000 It's like one of the best Mako shark hunting.

02:03:12.000 Which are massive, too.

02:03:13.000 Huge.

02:03:14.000 Yeah.

02:03:15.000 So, but they taught me how to do that.

02:03:16.000 I love fishing for Barracuda just because they're so aggressive.

02:03:19.000 It's a fun fish.

02:03:20.000 Oh, my God.

02:03:21.000 They're scarier than hell.

02:03:22.000 As fast as they hit a lure, it's crazy. 0.96

02:03:24.000 They're crazy looking.

02:03:24.000 Yeah.

02:03:25.000 And I love muskie, pike fishing, bass fishing.

02:03:27.000 I was going to say, they look like a pike on steroids. 1.00

02:03:29.000 Yeah, they are.

02:03:29.000 That's what they are.

02:03:30.000 They're the sea water version.

02:03:31.000 You muskie fish?

02:03:32.000 Oh yeah.

02:03:32.000 Muskies are awesome.

02:03:33.000 So I went muskie fishing at the Lacoutere Indian Reservation.

02:03:37.000 It's the Chippewa flowage where the biggest muskie in the world was ever caught, right?

02:03:40.000 Really?

02:03:41.000 How big was that?

02:03:42.000 67 pounds, 71 pounds.

02:03:44.000 I don't know, but it's huge.

02:03:46.000 It's huge.

02:03:46.000 Coyote-sized muskies.

02:03:47.000 But they've found jaws and teeth of muskies that are twice that size, right?

02:03:52.000 Just washed up on shore type stuff.

02:03:53.000 So there's huge muskies still.

02:03:56.000 But the guy that took me fishing, he took a job.

02:03:58.000 He used to work in Vegas for the casino, down in Vegas.

02:04:01.000 I forget which one.

02:04:02.000 And he left that and went back to Wisconsin, northern Wisconsin, because he wanted to muskie fish, right?

02:04:08.000 So he took a job with the Lacoutte Ray Indian Reservation.

02:04:10.000 Just so he could muskie fish.

02:04:11.000 And he was the vice president. 1.00

02:04:13.000 Holy shit! 1.00

02:04:14.000 Look at the size of that fucking thing! 1.00

02:04:16.000 They're terrifying, right? 1.00

02:04:17.000 That looks like a person.

02:04:19.000 That's like a person-sized fish.

02:04:22.000 That's less than 60 pounds?

02:04:23.000 But those will attack you.

02:04:25.000 Oh yeah.

02:04:26.000 You know, they'll attack you. 0.53

02:04:27.000 They're that vicious. 0.98

02:04:28.000 I knew a dude who invented a lure.

02:04:32.000 Do I know him or I know his friend?

02:04:34.000 I don't know.

02:04:35.000 Anyway, someone invented a lure that was a duck.

02:04:38.000 Yeah.

02:04:39.000 It was a fake duck.

02:04:39.000 That's what my grandpa used to fish for, with ducklings.

02:04:42.000 You'd hook them through the tail and throw them out on top of the lake and let them swim around, and the muskie would hit them.

02:04:45.000 Yeah, isn't that crazy?

02:04:46.000 That's how they do it.

02:04:47.000 That they regularly eat ducks.

02:04:48.000 Yeah.

02:04:49.000 This guy had a lure that as you pull it in, as you reeled it in, the paddles, the feet would move, and the muskie would think it's a real duck, and they'd jack them. 0.99

02:04:59.000 Yeah.

02:05:00.000 So they...

02:05:01.000 But the guy, he was that casino guy that took me fishing.

02:05:04.000 What do you got here, Jamie?

02:05:06.000 It's called a suicide duck lure.

02:05:08.000 Oh, okay.

02:05:09.000 Nice. 0.96

02:05:10.000 See, my fishing days are a long fucking time ago. 0.95

02:05:13.000 Yeah. 0.94

02:05:13.000 This is like when I was a very early teenager, like 13, 14. I was addicted to fishing. 0.94

02:05:18.000 I fished constantly.

02:05:19.000 I still fish.

02:05:20.000 I still love it.

02:05:21.000 But I'm out of the loop in terms of that this is a regular thing.

02:05:25.000 So this is a duck.

02:05:26.000 Oh, so the duck is like he's running away.

02:05:29.000 And a muskie comes in Jackson.

02:05:31.000 Got to make him look panicked, right?

02:05:32.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:05:33.000 But he was the vice president of the Muskie World Association, and he took me fishing, and he goes, we have tons of muskies that we've radio tagged.

02:05:43.000 He goes, but we're not going to use that.

02:05:44.000 That's cheating.

02:05:45.000 I know their patterns anyway.

02:05:46.000 How do they radio tag a muskie?

02:05:47.000 They just punch the thing by the dorsal fin, and it's got the little...

02:05:50.000 Oh, wow.

02:05:50.000 So it gives out a transmitter, and you can find out their patterns or whatever.

02:05:55.000 But he goes, I'll take you muskie fishing tomorrow if you want to go.

02:05:58.000 I said, yeah, awesome.

02:05:59.000 So we go to the bait store, and he gets chubs this big.

02:06:02.000 That's the bait.

02:06:02.000 So you're holding your hand out about a foot and a half.

02:06:05.000 They're at least 12, 14-inch fish, right?

02:06:08.000 That's the bait, right?

02:06:09.000 And he'd hook them through by the dorsal fin.

02:06:12.000 We'd go out in the boat, drop the chub straight down, then we'd go back to the island.

02:06:18.000 And he had a rod holder, put the pole in there, set the drag reel light, put a bobber at the top of the line so you could see the bobber move if something was taken off with it.

02:06:25.000 And we did that four separate times with four lines.

02:06:28.000 And then we sat in the boat and ate sandwiches and just talked.

02:06:32.000 And then all of a sudden the bobber takes off.

02:06:34.000 He goes, all right, I'm going to pull up, you run and grab the pole, jump back in the boat.

02:06:37.000 He goes, I'm going to maneuver you and keep you, you have to stay over the top of the fish. 0.99

02:06:41.000 And with musky, trolling motors scare them, but a regular boat motor idling does not for some reason.

02:06:46.000 So I'm learning a ton of stuff from this guy.

02:06:48.000 And he goes, we have to, for 25 minutes, you have to let him turn that fish head first and then swallow it.

02:06:54.000 That's the rule.

02:06:55.000 About 25 minutes it takes them.

02:06:56.000 They take their time, they wait until it's dead, they crush it with their jaws.

02:06:59.000 And they slowly flip it, and then they swallow it.

02:07:01.000 And he goes, but if it starts to run any time before that, you have to try and set the hook.

02:07:05.000 That's just the way it is.

02:07:06.000 Right.

02:07:07.000 And this is my first time muskie fishing.

02:07:09.000 So when they start chewing on them, you just wait?

02:07:11.000 Yeah.

02:07:12.000 Yeah, you stay over them.

02:07:13.000 So the muskie will be swimming along. 1.00

02:07:15.000 Besides that fucker. 1.00

02:07:16.000 Yeah, so they'll be swimming along. 1.00

02:07:18.000 So somebody caught that bass, and then the muskie grabbed it.

02:07:22.000 And the muskie's got ahold of it, so they don't have the muskie, they just have the bass.

02:07:24.000 Right, so you've got to let them turn them and then set the hook, then you'll catch the muskie, right? 1.00

02:07:28.000 So that's what we did, and at about 17 minutes it took off, started to run.

02:07:31.000 I set the hook, and I caught a 52-inch muskie, first time out.

02:07:35.000 Ooh! 1.00

02:07:36.000 Holy shit! 1.00

02:07:37.000 It felt like I set the hook in a log. 1.00

02:07:38.000 That is a big fucking thing. 0.99

02:07:40.000 Yeah, really cool stuff. 0.99

02:07:41.000 52-inch muskie.

02:07:43.000 Yeah, their northern pike fishing is very fun.

02:07:46.000 I've done that in Alberta.

02:07:46.000 Some of my favorite times.

02:07:48.000 They hit hard.

02:07:50.000 Yeah, and so the English river system where we used to go, if you catch a...

02:07:54.000 You know, a pike this long, you leave it on the hook because a big one's coming. 1.00

02:07:58.000 Right. 0.52

02:07:58.000 And the first time it happened to me, scared the living shit out of me. 0.52

02:08:01.000 So when you catch a pike that's two feet long and you just leave it on the hook... 1.00

02:08:05.000 Let it swim around.

02:08:06.000 Up there anyway.

02:08:07.000 And you're just hoping that something's way bigger.

02:08:08.000 No, you're not hoping.

02:08:09.000 It's coming.

02:08:10.000 Really?

02:08:10.000 It's coming.

02:08:11.000 Wow.

02:08:12.000 Yeah, so a big one's gonna come.

02:08:14.000 Is this one here?

02:08:14.000 Yeah, watch this.

02:08:17.000 Fucking cannibals. 1.00

02:08:19.000 Cannibals in the cold water world. 1.00

02:08:21.000 Remember Babe Winkleman, the professional fisherman?

02:08:23.000 Yeah, sure.

02:08:24.000 So this one is right there.

02:08:25.000 Here it comes.

02:08:26.000 And he's just holding it over.

02:08:28.000 This bigger one that's underneath it. 0.97

02:08:30.000 They're such a crazy animal, too.

02:08:32.000 Like, pikes seem prehistoric. 0.98

02:08:34.000 And they are cannibals, without a doubt.

02:08:36.000 Yeah.

02:08:37.000 Babe Winkleman, I watched a video while I was in Canada fishing.

02:08:40.000 We were at the lodge, and Babe Winkleman's asking this guy who's an Indian guide.

02:08:45.000 He goes, so what do pike eat? 1.00

02:08:47.000 And the guide goes, uh, pike. 1.00

02:08:49.000 They eat pike. 1.00

02:08:50.000 And he goes, no, what do pike eat? 1.00

02:08:51.000 He goes, pike. 1.00

02:08:52.000 Like, they breed so they have food.

02:08:54.000 That's what they eat.

02:08:57.000 They're just aggressive, mean fish.

02:08:59.000 Yeah, and they live in that dog-eat-dog cold water environment where there's three feet of ice above them half the time.

02:09:05.000 Right, right.

02:09:06.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:09:06.000 Well, all those animals up there, like we're talking about bears, about bears being cannibals and pike being cannibals and the fucking deer 350 pounds. 0.99

02:09:14.000 It's just a tough, tough world. 0.99

02:09:16.000 Hardcore, yeah.

02:09:17.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:09:17.000 I mean, when it gets that goddamn cold, it's a tough world. 0.99

02:09:21.000 Then you go to a whole other level and go to places like Africa and Australia. 0.97

02:09:24.000 And it's hot.

02:09:25.000 It's another world too.

02:09:27.000 Everything's deadly in Australia.

02:09:29.000 I wouldn't even want to live there.

02:09:30.000 That's right.

02:09:30.000 Adam Greentree, listen to Pat Miletic.

02:09:32.000 My friend Adam, who shot that water buffalo head in Australia, keeps trying to get me to go down there and hunt with him.

02:09:38.000 And every time he sends me pictures of spiders that can kill you, a lizard that can kill you, a snake that can kill you.

02:09:44.000 Brown snakes, all that.

02:09:44.000 Yeah, everything.

02:09:45.000 Everything kills you.

02:09:46.000 Centipedes.

02:09:47.000 And they have these gigantic 2,000-pound buffaloes that are super hyper-aggressive.

02:09:51.000 Right.

02:09:52.000 And they're roaming around.

02:09:53.000 Smash you. 1.00

02:09:54.000 Well, they have to kill them, though. 1.00

02:09:55.000 That's another thing. 0.99

02:09:56.000 It's like the grizzly bear thing.

02:09:57.000 They don't have predators.

02:09:58.000 Right.

02:09:59.000 You know, in Alaska...

02:10:01.000 But they're herbivores, so they're kind of meant to be hunted in my mind.

02:10:04.000 Yes.

02:10:05.000 No, I agree, but there's nothing to hunt them out there.

02:10:07.000 The problem with Australia is that these are invasive species.

02:10:10.000 They brought pretty much everything over there.

02:10:12.000 So the ranchers brought them there or something for beef?

02:10:14.000 Someone brought them there a long time ago.

02:10:16.000 New Zealand's the craziest place because New Zealand is essentially, they set it up as a wild game park for rich Europeans a long time ago. 1.00

02:10:25.000 And so now they have these enormous stags and all these huge animals that live there, but no predators.

02:10:31.000 So sometimes they have to thin the herd.

02:10:33.000 They have to fly over with helicopters and just gun them down.

02:10:36.000 Well, they hunt.

02:10:37.000 I mean, we're allowed, they made a rule in Bettendorf, Iowa, that within city limits, you could hunt deer with a bow.

02:10:43.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:10:44.000 Within city limits, because there's just so many of them.

02:10:46.000 You see a herd of 50 of them.

02:10:47.000 They do that in Pennsylvania, too.

02:10:49.000 Okay.

02:10:49.000 Yeah, there's a lot of places where they just get so overrun that they have what they call urban hunting.

02:10:53.000 Yeah.

02:10:54.000 Where people set up tree stands in their backyard.

02:10:56.000 You know, as far as the fishing goes, you should go noodling.

02:10:59.000 Noodling for catfish?

02:11:00.000 You want to bite your hand? 1.00

02:11:02.000 Fuck that. 1.00

02:11:03.000 That seems so stupid. 1.00

02:11:04.000 Because occasionally you fuck up and get a snapping turtle, right? 1.00

02:11:07.000 Or a beaver. 0.99

02:11:08.000 Ah! 1.00

02:11:09.000 Fucking beaver! 1.00

02:11:11.000 Imagine a beaver that can chew down a tree. 1.00

02:11:13.000 Imagine what it'd do to your wrist.

02:11:14.000 Oh, it would hurt.

02:11:15.000 It would definitely hurt.

02:11:15.000 I did it one time and that was it.

02:11:17.000 You went noodling one time?

02:11:19.000 Did you get lucky?

02:11:19.000 Yeah, it was like 14 pounder.

02:11:22.000 But when they snap down on your arm, it scares the shit out of you. 0.73

02:11:25.000 Oh, I'm sure.

02:11:26.000 Now, what is the idea?

02:11:27.000 Is that the catfish thinks you're intruding?

02:11:29.000 No, they think it's a fish.

02:11:30.000 Oh, they do think it's a fish.

02:11:32.000 So your hand is bait. 1.00

02:11:34.000 Fuck that. 1.00

02:11:34.000 I like fishing poles. 1.00

02:11:36.000 I like to be in a boat or on the shore.

02:11:39.000 I like all the sophisticated, intelligent things.

02:11:43.000 So I was going to ask you, how's it been working with Jimmy Smith?

02:11:46.000 I love that guy.

02:11:47.000 I want to get him hired.

02:11:48.000 He's brilliant.

02:11:49.000 He's a very smart guy.

02:11:50.000 I tried to get him hired about four years ago.

02:11:51.000 Yeah.

02:11:52.000 Because the UFC was looking for guys.

02:11:54.000 First of all, I was trying to do less commentary because I was traveling too much.

02:11:56.000 And I was trying to do less.

02:11:57.000 I was like, you've got to hire this guy.

02:11:58.000 He's the best.

02:11:59.000 Yeah.

02:11:59.000 He's really, really good.

02:12:00.000 He's smart.

02:12:01.000 I love listening to him.

02:12:02.000 We're doing our first show together in April.

02:12:04.000 Okay.

02:12:04.000 The Tony Ferguson-Khabib Nurmagomedov fight.

02:12:06.000 Oh, good, good.

02:12:07.000 Yeah.

02:12:07.000 Khabib versus Tony is going to be a perfect fight for us.

02:12:11.000 So who's coloring play-by-play then?

02:12:12.000 Is he doing play-by-play and you're doing color?

02:12:14.000 No, no, no.

02:12:14.000 John Anik's doing play-by-play and Jimmy and I are both doing color.

02:12:19.000 We're just going to have fun.

02:12:20.000 He's a friend, you know, and he's been on the podcast a bunch of times.

02:12:22.000 We're buddies, so it'll be a good time.

02:12:25.000 And didn't he cut his teeth doing a TV show about combat sports or about fighting around the world or whatever, learning different arts?

02:12:34.000 Was it called Fight Sport?

02:12:35.000 What was it called?

02:12:36.000 Something like that.

02:12:37.000 Fight Quest.

02:12:38.000 Fight Quest, yeah.

02:12:39.000 It was...

02:12:40.000 Yeah, he did that, but he also had MMA fights, and he's a legit black belt in jiu-jitsu.

02:12:48.000 No, he knows his stuff.

02:12:49.000 He's a super smart and well-read guy, too.

02:12:51.000 I'm excited.

02:12:52.000 I'm excited that he's on board.

02:12:54.000 Yeah, I always liked listening to him. 0.99

02:12:55.000 Yeah, Bellator fucked up. 1.00

02:12:57.000 They fucked up and they let that guy go. 0.99

02:12:58.000 I was wondering what... 0.99

02:13:00.000 Not to pry, but my guess was he just asked for more money, probably because he had an offer from the UFC. They wouldn't match it, so he took off, whatever.

02:13:08.000 Well, they didn't want him leaving for the UFC four years ago when I tried to get him hired.

02:13:12.000 And there was like a big hullabaloo and they wound up keeping him.

02:13:17.000 And then I think his contract was up.

02:13:20.000 And I think the way he described it was they actually wanted to give him less money.

02:13:23.000 That he was getting.

02:13:24.000 And it's like, I think they're just experiencing some severe budget cuts.

02:13:28.000 If you think about Bellator's market, like what they're trying to do, they don't have a pay-per-view business, you know?

02:13:35.000 And if you don't have a pay-per-view business, where's the bulk of all your money coming from?

02:13:38.000 It's kind of bleeding Viacom.

02:13:40.000 I just thought, you know, when it happened, I said, why didn't they change the name when Coker was brought in to take over?

02:13:47.000 It made zero sense to me because Bellator had that You know, from Bjorn Rebny, I've never been a Bjorn Rebny fan.

02:13:55.000 Bjorn Rebny, you know, from that boxing promoter type, you know, whatever it was.

02:13:59.000 And everybody that I talked to in that In that business, they were all terrified and intimidated and everything else.

02:14:06.000 Of him?

02:14:06.000 Yeah.

02:14:07.000 I never met the guy.

02:14:08.000 I don't know anything about him other than the bad things that I've heard from fighters.

02:14:11.000 Right. 0.96

02:14:12.000 King Mo calling him a dick rider. 0.99

02:14:15.000 King Mo! 0.99

02:14:16.000 That was hilarious.

02:14:17.000 King Mo and I go back and forth on the internet, on Facebook and stuff.

02:14:21.000 I'll deliberately piss him off on political stuff and just get him stirred up.

02:14:27.000 He's an underappreciated talent when it comes to fighting, too.

02:14:29.000 Yeah, no.

02:14:30.000 That guy was...

02:14:32.000 Had some serious physical problems, though, like with MRSA. He had some serious staph infections.

02:14:37.000 Some real bad ones that wrecked him. 1.00

02:14:40.000 That fucking shit scared me. 1.00

02:14:41.000 He's a great guy, though. 1.00

02:14:42.000 We talk now and then when I see him and stuff.

02:14:44.000 He is.

02:14:44.000 He's a cool dude.

02:14:46.000 But, God, where were we?

02:14:48.000 What were we talking about?

02:14:49.000 Bellator.

02:14:50.000 We changed the name.

02:14:51.000 They should have changed the name.

02:14:52.000 It's just synonymous with tournaments, and a guy loses the title, and suddenly he's thrown back into a tournament.

02:14:57.000 He's already made his name. 0.99

02:14:58.000 It's just a dumb name. 1.00

02:14:59.000 It's just a shitty business model. 1.00

02:15:00.000 And Bellator was for the Spanish-speaking crowd, right? 0.97

02:15:03.000 Wasn't that what they were trying to get out of that whole thing?

02:15:05.000 I think it's a Latin word, right? 0.98

02:15:07.000 Or a Roman word for gladiator or some shit. 0.97

02:15:10.000 But yeah, it started out as... 0.97

02:15:12.000 Wasn't it on ESPN Deportes or something like that?

02:15:15.000 Yeah, but it just didn't make sense with Coker taking over.

02:15:19.000 I don't want to watch the Geritol posse fight.

02:15:22.000 That's all they're doing.

02:15:23.000 I don't want to see a Pat Miletic fight.

02:15:24.000 I don't want to see it.

02:15:27.000 I love some of those guys, but I don't want to watch it.

02:15:30.000 I agree.

02:15:31.000 It's a young man's sport. 0.99

02:15:33.000 It's guys that are animals, fast movers, just beasts, invincible human beings in their mid-20s to 30-whatever, early 30s.

02:15:41.000 A guy that's 45 years old is just not... 0.97

02:15:44.000 Not just 45, but 45 years old with MMA miles on him.

02:15:47.000 Yeah.

02:15:48.000 That's the real issue.

02:15:49.000 Right.

02:15:49.000 It's that these guys, their bodies have been beaten up for so many decades in the gym and all the years of wrestling and kickboxing.

02:15:55.000 Yeah.

02:15:56.000 They're just not the same.

02:15:57.000 No.

02:15:57.000 You know?

02:15:58.000 Yeah.

02:15:58.000 It takes its toll.

02:15:59.000 It definitely takes its toll and you're just not...

02:16:01.000 You're just not the same guy. 0.99

02:16:02.000 I mean, there's part of me that respects the shit out of a guy like Hoist Gracie, still a fucking savage at 50 years of age, ready to throw down with anybody. 0.98

02:16:09.000 He wouldn't fight me. 0.99

02:16:10.000 He wouldn't?

02:16:11.000 Son of a...

02:16:11.000 When was this?

02:16:12.000 I've been trying to...

02:16:13.000 I mean, with Bellator, I said, freaking get Gracie to fight me. 1.00

02:16:17.000 When he was fighting Shamrock, I confronted Shamrock on Axis.

02:16:21.000 That was one of the worst fights that I had.

02:16:23.000 Oh, it was bad.

02:16:23.000 Was when Matt...

02:16:24.000 Beat the shit out of him. 0.99

02:16:25.000 When Matt took his back and was smashing him. 0.99

02:16:28.000 And I was like, Jesus Christ.

02:16:30.000 I was like, this is so mismatched.

02:16:33.000 So Hoist is in a different era.

02:16:35.000 And Matt is, even though Matt's not ranked, he's a legit black belt.

02:16:39.000 And a stud wrestler.

02:16:41.000 And a physical freak.

02:16:43.000 And super experienced with modern, high-level MMA. Whereas Hoist was living in the past.

02:16:50.000 And the thing was with that, that was after Rob Lawler, Rory Markham, myself, Tim Sylvia, Gan McGee, Chuck Lydell, all of us were on that movie set in Mexico, that Paul Walker film.

02:17:00.000 Okay.

02:17:00.000 Right?

02:17:01.000 Paul was a great guy.

02:17:02.000 He was legitimately a good human being.

02:17:04.000 I'm sure you knew him and all that.

02:17:05.000 I didn't know him, but I heard great things about him.

02:17:07.000 The stuff that he did on the set to stick up for the small guys was incredible.

02:17:11.000 Maybe we've got time to talk about it, or not, but...

02:17:15.000 We had gotten done with that.

02:17:16.000 We'd become friends with Paul Walker and Oakley Lemon, who was his stunt double for everything.

02:17:22.000 The stunt guys were all really cool with us.

02:17:24.000 We kind of gravitated towards them because they're stunt guys and we're fighters.

02:17:27.000 We got along really well with them.

02:17:29.000 But Lawrence Fishburne was on the set, the Carradine brothers. 0.97

02:17:32.000 I'm a kid from Iowa going, this is fucking awesome, man.

02:17:35.000 These are cool dudes. 0.95

02:17:36.000 Just to be around these guys.

02:17:39.000 So they were all at that fight in L.A., And Paul Walker and all his actor buddies were in one row.

02:17:45.000 Right behind him was Oakley Lemon and all his stunt guys.

02:17:48.000 And so Paul Walker was a Gracie Jiu-Jitsu student.

02:17:52.000 He, you know, loved that.

02:17:54.000 And so they were cheering for Hoist.

02:17:57.000 All the stunt guys were cheering for Matt.

02:17:58.000 They're the hardcore, like, you know.

02:18:00.000 So anyway...

02:18:02.000 Matt just dismantles him, wrecks him completely.

02:18:05.000 And I turn around.

02:18:07.000 I'm up on the deck outside the cage and I turn around.

02:18:09.000 And Paul Walker and all these actor buddies are like this. 0.99

02:18:12.000 Like, holy shit. 0.97

02:18:13.000 Like, I can't believe this just happened. 0.99

02:18:15.000 Standing on the chairs behind them is Oakley Lemon and all the stunt guys going, It was it was but I saw Half that crowd crying.

02:18:27.000 Yeah, because they saw a god get destroyed right I mean, that's our hero to I mean right hoises like for martial arts.

02:18:35.000 He he was a legitimate hero He was the first guy to win the ultimate fighting championship and the way he did it was like, oh look at this These guys using technique that we didn't even know exist little skinny guy.

02:18:46.000 That's just manly people and the thing was with all of that Then the Gracies came back with, Hughes was just a better athlete and used all Jiu Jitsu, Gracie Jiu Jitsu to beat Gracie Jiu Jitsu. 0.92

02:18:58.000 So I went through all the stuff.

02:18:59.000 He hit a duck under on Hoist when Hoist tried to hit him with an elbow to wrestling.

02:19:02.000 Hit him with a half Nelson when Hoist tried to regain guard when Matt took his back.

02:19:06.000 There was just a bunch of wrestling mixed in there, right?

02:19:08.000 And so then they brought out Almeida.

02:19:11.000 Almeida was their dog to come and beat Matt.

02:19:14.000 So they put in Almeida, who was bigger than Matt.

02:19:17.000 You know, he's a big dude for that weight division.

02:19:19.000 Well, Matt deliberately hit him with a wrestling front headlock and choked him unconscious.

02:19:23.000 Well, it was a position that a lot of jiu-jitsu guys are used to being in there, and they just relax because they're waiting for you to spin to the back. 0.98

02:19:28.000 But instead of spinning to the back, Matt just cranked that fucker down and shut the lights out. 0.95

02:19:33.000 When you stuff the head under the armpit and you crank that down and twist, you get choked. 1.00

02:19:38.000 Especially a gorilla like Matt.

02:19:40.000 Right.

02:19:41.000 And so when they did the interview, you were probably the guy doing the interview.

02:19:43.000 Yes, I was.

02:19:44.000 He goes, you know, it was just nice to use wrestling on a jiu-jitsu game.

02:19:47.000 Yeah, and to put him unconscious.

02:19:49.000 Right.

02:19:49.000 I don't think Ricardo knew that that could put him out.

02:19:52.000 Right.

02:19:53.000 I mean, a lot of us have been in those positions before, but it's usually a transitionary position where a guy turns and gets your back.

02:19:59.000 No one's ever done it since either, by the way.

02:20:01.000 No.

02:20:01.000 No one's ever choked anybody outside.

02:20:03.000 But guys in wrestling will use that stuff, you know, like Dave Lilevich, who wrestled for Purdue.

02:20:08.000 Dave and Joey Lilevich, they were all Americans at Purdue.

02:20:10.000 They were beasts.

02:20:11.000 And obviously, Lilevich, they were Croatians, psycho-Croatians, in Michigan City, Indiana, where they grew up. 0.97

02:20:17.000 And Lilevich used to use a move that they named the Lilevich, where it was...

02:20:23.000 You'd include... 0.98

02:20:24.000 What the fuck's the name of it? 0.98

02:20:25.000 Not a Darce, but... 0.99

02:20:26.000 Anaconda choke? 0.98

02:20:27.000 It was an anaconda in college wrestling. 0.97

02:20:30.000 It looked like you had a front headlock, and he would choke people unconscious.

02:20:33.000 As soon as they'd go limp, he'd grab the chin, roll them, and pin them.

02:20:36.000 Ah, that's right.

02:20:38.000 I heard about that.

02:20:39.000 So Dave Lilovich pinned Bill Tate from Iowa State.

02:20:42.000 Bill Tate was a Waterloo, Iowa guy.

02:20:44.000 And he put him asleep.

02:20:45.000 He put him asleep and pinned him in the NCAA championships.

02:20:47.000 Is that illegal?

02:20:49.000 Oh, it's totally illegal, but referees didn't understand it because it looked like you had the arm included in the headlock, right?

02:20:54.000 Right, but if you do have an arm included in a headlock, is it your fault if a guy goes to sleep?

02:20:58.000 No, not at all.

02:20:59.000 So is it illegal to pin him?

02:21:01.000 If the referee recognized he went limp, they would stop the match for a potentially dangerous hold or whatever.

02:21:05.000 So what you'd have to do is get some of these really bad UFC referees to referee wrestling, and they would have no idea the guy was that.

02:21:11.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:21:12.000 But there's guys doing the...

02:21:13.000 Do you see at the NCAAs the guy hitting the key lock on the guy trying to break his arm?

02:21:16.000 No.

02:21:17.000 Yeah.

02:21:18.000 Didn't Mark Schultz do that in the Olympics?

02:21:21.000 You know, I'm not sure. 0.99

02:21:23.000 He ripped a guy's fucking arm off with that. 0.99

02:21:24.000 I believe he was disqualified. 1.00

02:21:26.000 I mean, the Schultz brothers were just scary human beings.

02:21:28.000 Dave Schultz was just unbeatable. 0.81

02:21:30.000 Animals.

02:21:31.000 They were trying to build people to beat him over in Russia.

02:21:33.000 Remember when Mark fought Big Daddy Goodrich?

02:21:36.000 He threw him around, ragdolled him. 0.94

02:21:38.000 But then in the movie, they used a different guy.

02:21:42.000 They didn't have him fighting Big Daddy Goodrich in the movie.

02:21:45.000 They had him fight some Russian guy.

02:21:46.000 Was that Fox?

02:21:47.000 Catcher or something? 1.00

02:21:47.000 Yeah, it was a bullshit scene. 1.00

02:21:49.000 I was like, why would you do that? 0.99

02:21:50.000 This is actual real history.

02:21:52.000 Right, right.

02:21:52.000 You really have a guy who's like one of the best wrestlers to ever fight in MMA. To us, it was a real historical moment.

02:21:58.000 And he took it on last second notice.

02:22:00.000 Yeah, he fought Big Daddy Goodrich.

02:22:01.000 We all remember it. 1.00

02:22:02.000 But in this fucking movie, you faked it. 1.00

02:22:05.000 You put someone else in. 1.00

02:22:06.000 So what else did you fake? 0.97

02:22:07.000 What other bullshit was in this movie where you're pretending this is a historical recreation of a real national crime that everybody heard about. 0.99

02:22:15.000 It was a real tragedy. 0.99

02:22:16.000 And it was a tragedy against a guy who was one of the best wrestlers that America had to offer.

02:22:21.000 I felt like it was one of the worst examples of what Hollywood does, the arrogance of Hollywood.

02:22:28.000 To do to a real story.

02:22:30.000 A real story. 1.00

02:22:30.000 They decided, fuck Big Daddy Goodrich, why have him in there? 1.00

02:22:34.000 That would be like Mike Tyson, pretending Mike Tyson won the fucking world title against Ivan Drago or something. 0.99

02:22:41.000 Really, it would be something akin to that. 0.97

02:22:43.000 Everybody knows what the real fight was.

02:22:45.000 You know, being an Iowa guy, this whole California experience and Hollywood and all this stuff freaks me the fuck out.

02:22:53.000 It should.

02:22:53.000 It does.

02:22:55.000 I was out here pitching TV shows before The Ultimate Fighter.

02:22:58.000 I was pitching an Ultimate Fighter show to Kevin Reilly, who was the president of NBC at the time.

02:23:07.000 And John Hirschfeld, who you know, John Hirschfeld goes, look, you're going to have maybe five, ten minutes with these people.

02:23:13.000 I had him laughing for an hour and a half.

02:23:16.000 And they're like, this is awesome.

02:23:17.000 I love this show.

02:23:18.000 I love this idea.

02:23:19.000 And mine was much different than The Ultimate Fighter.

02:23:21.000 It actually made sense.

02:23:23.000 The four pillars of MMA and competing in each one and all that sort of stuff, right?

02:23:28.000 Well, he called us personally and he goes, you know, the board talked about it and the board just, he goes, I couldn't get it through.

02:23:35.000 They just don't feel mainstream is ready for this type of thing and all that.

02:23:39.000 Then The Ultimate Fighter came out on Spike and the rest was history.

02:23:41.000 But Every time I had one show sold to stars, the guy that used to be the president of HBO, remember him?

02:23:48.000 Which guy?

02:23:49.000 The guy that got in trouble for...

02:23:50.000 Got in trouble, right?

02:23:51.000 I can't remember his name now offhand.

02:23:52.000 I don't remember.

02:23:53.000 Brett...

02:23:53.000 No.

02:23:54.000 Rex?

02:23:55.000 No.

02:23:55.000 Something Albrecht?

02:23:57.000 Yeah.

02:23:57.000 Chris Albrecht?

02:23:58.000 Chris Albrecht.

02:23:58.000 That's it.

02:23:59.000 I had a show sold and then they were going to co-brand it with Spartacus and then the lead actor from Spartacus got terminal cancer and they couldn't co-brand them together and that deal fell apart.

02:24:09.000 Then another one that I had sold fell apart because of the collapse in 2008 and I was like, dude, I can't win anything.

02:24:16.000 It's a crazy business also.

02:24:18.000 If you're an outsider and you're coming in here to try to pitch things, there's so many people they already know that are pitching things.

02:24:23.000 You've got to imagine if you're a guy that's a producer or an executive at some sort of a network, you've got people knocking on your door all day long.

02:24:32.000 And you're used to quality from certain people or what you want to see.

02:24:34.000 Right.

02:24:35.000 You've seen their work before.

02:24:37.000 It's very hard for an outsider to get in.

02:24:39.000 Oh, dude.

02:24:40.000 I finally just went...

02:24:41.000 I had so many concepts written on a laptop.

02:24:43.000 I'd sit up all hours of night writing concepts for shows, all that sort of stuff.

02:24:47.000 You know what's interesting?

02:24:48.000 This thing that you're doing for fun, your conspiracy farm, that's probably your best way in.

02:24:55.000 Podcasts are the best way in, because you need to build an audience, an undeniable audience.

02:24:59.000 Well, and we want to go to, you know, black sites, CIA black sites, and... 0.99

02:25:05.000 Arrest us and drag our ass in there, right? 0.99

02:25:07.000 We want to get in trouble, right? 0.99

02:25:09.000 We want to go to places where we're...

02:25:11.000 You don't want that.

02:25:12.000 You say you want that.

02:25:13.000 You don't want that.

02:25:14.000 Okay, I get what you're saying, but we want to push the envelope, right?

02:25:18.000 We want to push the envelope, and we want to expose the real facts behind what's really going on, and it would cause some heat.

02:25:24.000 I'm sure that we'd eventually get a call.

02:25:27.000 You know, where you need to kind of divert off the path you're on.

02:25:30.000 You think so?

02:25:31.000 Without a doubt.

02:25:32.000 You looking forward to that call?

02:25:33.000 Weren't you starting to do a show like that, though?

02:25:34.000 I did Joe Rogan Questions Everything.

02:25:36.000 Right.

02:25:37.000 But mostly it was on Bigfoot and UFOs.

02:25:40.000 So stuff you're not going to get in trouble for.

02:25:42.000 And aliens.

02:25:43.000 Right. 1.00

02:25:43.000 Well, it was mostly almost all bullshit. 1.00

02:25:47.000 That's the problem. 0.99

02:25:48.000 And I was much more interested in conspiracy theories before I did that show, but in the six months that I did that show, and all these different people that I interviewed, and all the stuff you saw in the air was just a fraction of the total mass of all the people that I talked to, mostly was bullshit. 0.99

02:26:02.000 Mostly it was crazy people. 0.95

02:26:04.000 Most of these people that just have a bad way of looking at reality.

02:26:09.000 They have confirmation bias, and the way they look at things, they just have this very distorted version of what the truth is.

02:26:18.000 And they also want Bigfoot to be real.

02:26:20.000 They want aliens to be real. 0.99

02:26:21.000 They want the government to be spraying shit out of planes above us all the time. 1.00

02:26:25.000 It's all just shitty thinking. 0.99

02:26:26.000 But we've had Brennan, who was head of the CIA, admit to that, though, at least. 0.94

02:26:31.000 Well, they admit to one thing.

02:26:33.000 That they have looked into weather modification. 0.99

02:26:37.000 But the idea that every fucking Southwest flight is spraying aluminum and all this different shit in the air. 0.99

02:26:43.000 No. 0.99

02:26:44.000 For sure they've experimented on using it for warfare.

02:26:48.000 I mean, they've looked into everything.

02:26:49.000 Spray the atmosphere over your enemy and have storms break out on them.

02:26:54.000 There's that.

02:26:55.000 And also, in Abu Dhabi, they make it rain every week.

02:26:59.000 They make it rain 52 times a year. 0.99

02:27:01.000 They just throw money in the air and it fucking rains. 0.99

02:27:05.000 They just figure out a way to cloud seed. 0.99

02:27:08.000 And that cloud seeding has been around forever.

02:27:10.000 That's real.

02:27:10.000 But that's not what you're seeing when you see planes fly overhead and you see those clouds that form behind the planes.

02:27:16.000 That is a reaction between the jet engines, the condensation in the atmosphere, the heat of the jet engine.

02:27:20.000 And I was never sold on it.

02:27:22.000 For a long time, I was never sold on that at all. 0.97

02:27:24.000 It's ridiculous.

02:27:25.000 You know, I was never, you know, in the 9-11 conspiracies and stuff like that.

02:27:29.000 The only thing that I've noticed about that is you can see the detonations going off on Building 7 when it never got hit.

02:27:35.000 You don't see detonations.

02:27:36.000 What you see is floors collapsing and the pressure of these floors collapsing causing these windows to blow out.

02:27:42.000 Right.

02:27:42.000 This is just what would happen if something was pain-taking in.

02:27:44.000 But I don't subscribe to it is what I'm saying.

02:27:46.000 I don't subscribe to it.

02:27:47.000 I don't subscribe to it either. 0.98

02:27:49.000 I mean, who knows what the fuck happened... 1.00

02:27:53.000 With all the shit behind the scenes. 0.99

02:27:55.000 But what we do know is that a bunch of people capitalize on that, which makes it look like a conspiracy. 0.98

02:27:59.000 And all the intelligence reports that came out before that happened was that the terrorists planned on using planes as missiles to take down buildings.

02:28:05.000 We knew that, at least.

02:28:07.000 That's where I stop.

02:28:08.000 I lean much more towards incompetence than I do massive conspiracy.

02:28:12.000 A bunch of Barney Fives.

02:28:13.000 Keystone Cops.

02:28:14.000 Yeah.

02:28:15.000 That's what I think.

02:28:16.000 Right.

02:28:16.000 But, who knows.

02:28:17.000 I wanted to talk to you about marathons, about ultra-marathons.

02:28:21.000 Like, you got into, when did you start getting into this?

02:28:24.000 It was a couple years ago.

02:28:26.000 John Byrne, who is a professor at a college in my hometown, and he and his family had taken martial arts from me for years, and he one day walked up to me, I think it was 2012?

02:28:38.000 Or earlier.

02:28:39.000 And he goes, hey, I want to thank you for all the confidence you've given me.

02:28:43.000 And he was an amazing guy.

02:28:44.000 Very smart guy.

02:28:46.000 And a great athlete.

02:28:48.000 Great basketball player.

02:28:49.000 The guy's now 53 years old, I think.

02:28:52.000 And never gets hurt.

02:28:53.000 He can do anything he wants and he does not get hurt.

02:28:56.000 He's just a genetic freak, right?

02:28:58.000 But he comes to me and he goes, thank you for giving me the confidence.

02:29:00.000 I love the martial arts training, but I'm going to try something new.

02:29:02.000 And I said, what are you going to try?

02:29:03.000 And he goes, this thing called the Leadville 100. And I go, what the hell is that?

02:29:08.000 He goes, well, it's a high altitude, 100 mile race through the Colorado Rockies.

02:29:11.000 And I go, how many days is this supposed to take?

02:29:13.000 And he goes, oh no, you do it all at once.

02:29:14.000 I go, huh?

02:29:16.000 You're going to do 100 miles without basically stopping.

02:29:19.000 He goes, yeah.

02:29:19.000 He goes, about every 10 miles you get new food and fluids and you just keep going.

02:29:23.000 I went, awesome.

02:29:24.000 Go do it, man.

02:29:25.000 And he went and he finished.

02:29:26.000 He barely made the cutoff, which is 30 hours.

02:29:29.000 You have to do it, right?

02:29:30.000 And so I thought, this is really cool.

02:29:33.000 And it was a couple years ago where he sent me a message and he goes, I'm training for Leadville again.

02:29:37.000 I go, maybe it's a good idea for me to jump in.

02:29:41.000 I want to do something extreme.

02:29:44.000 And since I quit fighting, I could never fight.

02:29:47.000 There was just that void in my life, right?

02:29:49.000 And my health was deteriorating.

02:29:50.000 I couldn't figure out how to get back in shape because I was in pain constantly.

02:29:55.000 I had asthma, all this other stuff.

02:29:56.000 I found out that that was gluten.

02:29:57.000 I had a gluten problem, right?

02:29:59.000 And I thought before that, I thought if somebody said I'm gluten sensitive or I have allergy to gluten, I'd go, whatever.

02:30:05.000 What is gluten, right?

02:30:06.000 Right.

02:30:07.000 But I was running into so many physical problems, I started training with these guys, and I'd be crippled for two, three days.

02:30:12.000 I'd be in so much pain that I couldn't do anything.

02:30:14.000 And then my buddy goes, and I was getting ready to start eating OxyContin's.

02:30:19.000 I mean, I could survive on Motrin, all the pain, everything else.

02:30:22.000 But I got to the point where, flying, I'd walk five gates in an airport and have to stop and sit down.

02:30:28.000 I was in so much pain.

02:30:29.000 My arthritis was just horrible.

02:30:30.000 I'd be soaked in sweat.

02:30:32.000 Everything else, so I had all these problems, and I figured if I train with these guys, it'll bring me out of this point in life, and it'll change my life, and I'll get back to Pat Milicich of the old.

02:30:43.000 Well, I was falling apart worse because of the intensity of the training.

02:30:47.000 So my buddy did blood tests on me.

02:30:48.000 He goes, you're going to be dead in three years from a heart attack.

02:30:51.000 There's so much inflammation in your body if you don't stop eating gluten.

02:30:54.000 I go, what the hell is gluten?

02:30:55.000 He goes, wheat and soy. 0.69

02:30:56.000 You have to stop eating it or you're dead.

02:30:58.000 Soy is gluten?

02:30:59.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:31:00.000 Wheat and soy.

02:31:01.000 So it's all modified grains, right?

02:31:05.000 Soy has been modified.

02:31:06.000 Like black beans have been modified for a certain amount of time.

02:31:09.000 Your body doesn't digest black beans.

02:31:11.000 They're like a waste of time to eat.

02:31:13.000 So, but the wheat and the soy is what was causing the inflammation, along with the sprain that goes on with wheat fields and soy fields.

02:31:19.000 It's really bad, right?

02:31:21.000 Yeah.

02:31:21.000 So anyway, yeah, it's bad, bad stuff.

02:31:24.000 So anyway, he said, you'll be dead in three years from a heart attack.

02:31:27.000 There's so much inflammation.

02:31:28.000 You have asthma.

02:31:29.000 You have three forms of arthritis.

02:31:30.000 Your digestion system, your digestive system is destroyed.

02:31:33.000 He goes, how's your temper been lately?

02:31:35.000 I go, not real good. 0.99

02:31:35.000 He goes, your brain's getting destroyed. 0.99

02:31:37.000 Your thinking process is screwed up because the chemicals that your stomach has given off is affecting the way you think.

02:31:43.000 It's your second stomach or your second brain, right? 0.59

02:31:45.000 He goes, so you have to understand that.

02:31:47.000 So I quit cold turkey, stopped eating, took about a week before my arthritis subsided, started to go away.

02:31:52.000 I went from running three-mile runs and feeling miserable for three days To 10 months later I did a 75 mile run. 0.65

02:31:59.000 In 10 months though, from not eating that garbage.

02:32:02.000 Was it a race, the 75 mile run?

02:32:05.000 No, it was actually a training run.

02:32:06.000 It was a training run with the guys.

02:32:08.000 They worked me up from 3 mile run, 10 mile run, 12 mile, 15, 18, 20, drop back down to a 10 mile run on the weekend.

02:32:18.000 They'd always do the long runs on the weekends.

02:32:19.000 A lot of times I was doing these runs on no sleep because I'd done a broadcast Friday night.

02:32:24.000 Get home the next day on Saturday, have no sleep because, you know, you can finish late and you've got to fly home first thing in the morning is what I always did.

02:32:31.000 Operating on no sleep and then starting with a 30 mile run, 35, 45, 50 and then a 75 mile run along with the stuff training during the week that a lot of it I was doing on the road too.

02:32:41.000 And it's just an amazing group.

02:32:44.000 It's probably the coolest group of people I've been around and David Clark who It's a guy that served as a role model for me, just reading his book, which is called Out There, Ultra Recovery, a guy that was a 320-pound alcoholic who changed his life one day and decided to become a badass ultra runner.

02:33:03.000 Just being around those people, they don't show pain.

02:33:07.000 They just don't show pain, even when they're in misery.

02:33:11.000 It's a weird mindset.

02:33:13.000 It's so much different than MMA, where 25 minutes of misery and an exhausting fight is, now that I've gone through some of this stuff, it's a joke.

02:33:22.000 It's a complete joke.

02:33:24.000 Because when you're out there running 75 miles, 50 miles, I ran 50 miles in 97 degree heat with the same percentage of humidity on a blacktop country road in Iowa, getting scorched, went through probably four hours of heat stroke.

02:33:38.000 My brain was getting cooked.

02:33:40.000 I mean, I literally felt like I could die at any time.

02:33:44.000 And these guys are laughing at me.

02:33:46.000 They're laughing.

02:33:47.000 They had me in a field at mile 30, a farmer's yard, hosing me down with cold water from the farmer's house just to get my body temperature down so I could get going again, right?

02:33:58.000 Wow.

02:33:58.000 Just crazy stuff like that.

02:34:00.000 They're just hardcore.

02:34:01.000 It's an amazing group of people, and I... I encourage people to work their way up, try and find a running group and try it because it's cool shit. 0.96

02:34:08.000 How often do you do it now? 0.61

02:34:09.000 I've backed off of late.

02:34:10.000 I've been doing more, kind of getting back into grappling a little bit, doing a little bit of kickboxing stuff.

02:34:15.000 Really?

02:34:15.000 Grappling even with your neck?

02:34:16.000 I tell people, look, don't go for the gold.

02:34:19.000 You know, and I had to tell them.

02:34:21.000 And there's a lot of good grapplers at the place I go to.

02:34:25.000 Summit, it's a wrestling and jujitsu facility.

02:34:27.000 CrossFit's in there, a bunch of other stuff.

02:34:29.000 But some of the guys that I used to train are the senior guys down there.

02:34:32.000 And there's some really technical guys, some 10th Planet guys, actually.

02:34:35.000 Joel Laughlin follows that system quite a bit.

02:34:39.000 And he's a former Special Forces guy.

02:34:41.000 And, you know, I just said to everybody the first few times I went down there, I go, look, I have no desire to be a world champion again.

02:34:47.000 I've been paralyzed twice from the neck down. 0.59

02:34:50.000 I have no desire to get into friggin' brawls with any of you.

02:34:53.000 I go, I'm here to get back in shape and just grapple and kind of have fun again.

02:34:57.000 So let's understand that first and foremost.

02:35:00.000 If you go for crazy submissions on my neck, I'm not going to like you a whole lot.

02:35:05.000 So I'm doing a lot of that.

02:35:08.000 I'm slowly getting kind of back into the mindset of ramping back up with the running and stuff like that.

02:35:12.000 My brother, who's 58, who never ran, he did Leadville last year.

02:35:17.000 Was it last year?

02:35:18.000 Yeah.

02:35:20.000 You know, that's a guy that never ran.

02:35:21.000 And most people take their lifetime to be able to do a marathon.

02:35:24.000 He did 50 miles at Leadville.

02:35:26.000 Missed the cutoff at 50 miles.

02:35:28.000 But he's 58 years old and never ran before.

02:35:30.000 And just, he was in love with it.

02:35:32.000 He fell in love with it.

02:35:33.000 He's in the mountains.

02:35:34.000 You know, I already live my sports dreams, Joe.

02:35:36.000 I already won a world title. 0.88

02:35:37.000 I've done some cool shit. 0.88

02:35:39.000 So to me, running that, when I saw the course and went, this is fantastic. 0.93

02:35:42.000 This is intimidating. 0.99

02:35:44.000 To look at a mountain and know you've got to go over it at the 40 to 50 mile mark and then 50 to 60 going back, it's some scary shit. 0.99

02:35:50.000 It's intimidating. 0.98

02:35:51.000 My brother was totally the opposite mindset. 0.97

02:35:53.000 He was like, This is the coolest shit I've ever done in my life. 0.98

02:35:56.000 He goes, bombing down that mountain was the coolest thing I've ever done in my life. 0.99

02:36:00.000 This is amazing.

02:36:00.000 And I just went, that's the way the mind's supposed to work for stuff like this.

02:36:03.000 Yeah.

02:36:04.000 He got it.

02:36:04.000 You know what I mean?

02:36:05.000 Yeah.

02:36:05.000 Well, it is a lot of it is how you approach things, right?

02:36:08.000 How you approach challenges.

02:36:09.000 Like, some people love the idea of something being very difficult.

02:36:13.000 Like, what a struggle.

02:36:14.000 I can't believe how tough that was.

02:36:15.000 You get out of it, you feel exhilarated.

02:36:17.000 Yeah.

02:36:17.000 Whereas other people, they look at it like, oh no, I need a couch.

02:36:21.000 And a beer, and a sandwich, and a good TV show about fucking, you know, whatever. 0.99

02:36:26.000 Right. 0.99

02:36:27.000 So I did Leadville a couple years back.

02:36:31.000 And John Byrne and I went out two weeks early, and I had to leave from Colorado, fly back to Providence to do a broadcast, and then fly back.

02:36:38.000 He picked me up at the airport, and we went back up.

02:36:41.000 But while I was with him for the first couple days, we went up Mount Albert, which is the tallest mountain in Colorado, and I felt the altitude.

02:36:47.000 I felt the altitude, 14.5 or whatever it was, and it was painful on the way up.

02:36:51.000 And then we got caught on a storm on the top of the mountain, a bad storm.

02:36:55.000 Hail, downpour, and lightning hitting everywhere, all over the mountain.

02:36:58.000 We had to bomb down this mountain as fast as we could, and I trashed my quads, right?

02:37:04.000 And we're real close to the actual race at that point, right?

02:37:07.000 It's like a week and a half away.

02:37:09.000 And so then I got on a plane, flew to Providence, and I was panicking. 0.98

02:37:12.000 I was like, this is some serious shit I'm about to do, right? 0.98

02:37:16.000 And I started sweating. 0.99

02:37:17.000 I'd never had anxiety attacks before in my life, and I'm like, what the fuck are you thinking, dude? 0.98

02:37:21.000 This is some crazy stuff. 0.96

02:37:23.000 And so we were getting ready to go live, and Michael Chevello looks at me and he goes, why are you soaked? 0.94

02:37:30.000 I go, I'm fucking freaking out, dude. 0.72

02:37:32.000 I get to fly back to Colorado and go do this race. 0.97

02:37:34.000 I'm panicking, right?

02:37:35.000 And I never thought I'd be afraid of anything, but the course is that intimidating, right?

02:37:40.000 So Michael goes, dude, relax.

02:37:42.000 It's okay.

02:37:43.000 So we did the show, everything.

02:37:44.000 I got back there.

02:37:45.000 And when you're out there in the mountains, you start at 4 o'clock in the morning, and they're hardcore runners, man.

02:37:52.000 They're hardcore badasses.

02:37:54.000 If you looked at them on the street, you'd go, there's no way that person could run five miles.

02:37:59.000 They're just smiling for 100 miles.

02:38:01.000 They're just going, going, you know.

02:38:02.000 Do you know who Courtney DeWalter is?

02:38:04.000 Right, right.

02:38:05.000 I had her on.

02:38:06.000 She won the MOAB 240. By how many hours?

02:38:09.000 20. She beat the 10 hours and 20 miles. 0.76

02:38:12.000 She beat the second place guy. 1.00

02:38:14.000 That's amazing.

02:38:15.000 Yeah, she's an animal. 1.00

02:38:15.000 Were there people that thought she cheated to do that? 1.00

02:38:17.000 Nope.

02:38:18.000 They knew her.

02:38:19.000 Everybody knew her. 0.65

02:38:20.000 She's an animal.

02:38:21.000 She won a race blind.

02:38:23.000 She was having some sort of retinal edema, so she couldn't see anything but her feet.

02:38:27.000 Her pacer had to tell her where to go and all that sort of stuff.

02:38:29.000 I don't think she had to pace her.

02:38:30.000 She tripped and fell and cracked her head open.

02:38:32.000 She went through the finish line bloody and blind.

02:38:35.000 And that's one of the toughest people you're ever going to meet.

02:38:38.000 Right. 0.97

02:38:38.000 And if you met her, completely unassuming, thin woman, real silly, drinks beer and eats nachos, not on some kind of crazy diet, eats candy. 0.97

02:38:47.000 Right. 0.94

02:38:48.000 She's real fun to hang out with, too.

02:38:49.000 She's very easy going.

02:38:50.000 That's like you meet Navy SEALs and you go, they're supposed to be tough, right?

02:38:53.000 Right.

02:38:53.000 But I watched Navy SEALs fall apart last year when my brother was doing the race.

02:38:57.000 Like, just fall apart.

02:38:58.000 Just completely, yeah.

02:39:00.000 Well, if you're not physically prepared, too.

02:39:03.000 Well, you know, I know that some of them did the 50-miler out there, right?

02:39:06.000 So they were getting ready for it.

02:39:09.000 You know, you get dehydrated at any point, or caloric deficit, or all these different altitude problems that can come about, all the other stuff, you know, it's definitely a mental thing.

02:39:21.000 Yes.

02:39:22.000 It's wild. 0.96

02:39:23.000 So fighting is, the way I look at it, the best way I can explain to you is fighting is so fucking easy. 0.82

02:39:28.000 In comparison.

02:39:29.000 Yeah, I mean, in reality, I mean, I was fighting, like when I fought Pele, when he was ranked second in the world and I was ranked first.

02:39:36.000 Yeah.

02:39:37.000 I didn't train for six weeks for that fight because I was crippled, right? 0.62

02:39:40.000 I was injured, low back, destroyed, all kinds of stuff.

02:39:42.000 I had 12 shots of xylocaine in my back to go out and fight.

02:39:45.000 Jesus Christ.

02:39:46.000 And he was the number two guy in the world at the time and very athletic. 1.00

02:39:48.000 He was a fucking killer at the time. 1.00

02:39:50.000 Right. 1.00

02:39:50.000 But he couldn't do shit to hurt me even when I was crippled. 1.00

02:39:52.000 He fell back for a leg lock on me and I laughed at him. 0.95

02:39:54.000 And he was like, well, that's not going to work, so let's get back.

02:39:57.000 Right?

02:39:57.000 But he was hanging on my head and I'm throwing uppercuts and body shots and he's plumbing me.

02:40:01.000 He ran up my body with knees.

02:40:04.000 Like that, you know, just a freak.

02:40:05.000 But fighting is that easy.

02:40:06.000 It's that simple to me.

02:40:08.000 Because you're trying to outwit and outsmart another human being.

02:40:11.000 Right.

02:40:11.000 Right?

02:40:12.000 When you're running for 50 miles, 75 miles, whatever, 100 miles, you're battling with yourself the entire time.

02:40:19.000 Yes. 0.99

02:40:19.000 That's where you get mind fucked. 0.99

02:40:21.000 Right, right, right. 0.99

02:40:22.000 That's the scary part about it.

02:40:24.000 Because you've got to face yourself.

02:40:25.000 Yeah.

02:40:27.000 Yeah, it's a different thing.

02:40:28.000 When you're in the middle of a fight, especially a war, you're in the moment.

02:40:33.000 You're throwing bombs and ducking and getting hit and dealing with it and toughening it up.

02:40:38.000 You take a minute break, drink some water, hop right back out again for five minutes.

02:40:41.000 It's just a completely different animal.

02:40:43.000 Do you miss the old days of no time limits?

02:40:46.000 I had fun back in those days because I could go 100 miles an hour and gas people out and beat them, right?

02:40:51.000 Right, with conditioning.

02:40:52.000 I enjoyed that.

02:40:53.000 I did enjoy that.

02:40:56.000 But...

02:40:57.000 You know, it is.

02:40:58.000 It is what it is.

02:40:59.000 There were fights in tournaments that would go 45 minutes and just, you know, you can't cover that on TV. Right, right, right.

02:41:05.000 You just can't.

02:41:06.000 Like when you fought Dan.

02:41:07.000 Was that a no time limit?

02:41:09.000 Just a 30 minute, one round fight.

02:41:11.000 Yeah, that's crazy.

02:41:12.000 So it's just, it is what it is.

02:41:13.000 People would sit down and watch it live.

02:41:16.000 But they're not going to watch it on TV. Even the people that watch it live, they're going to get bummed out.

02:41:21.000 Right.

02:41:21.000 It's just not the best thing in terms of entertainment value.

02:41:24.000 No.

02:41:24.000 Not at all.

02:41:25.000 Not at all.

02:41:26.000 So it's, you know, the rounds, the rules, all that sort of stuff.

02:41:30.000 Give you a chance to look at some girls in bikinis in between rounds. 1.00

02:41:34.000 Walk around with the cards.

02:41:35.000 And, you know, I talked to John Peretti.

02:41:37.000 We had John Peretti on one of my podcasts, actually.

02:41:39.000 Oh, yeah?

02:41:40.000 How's he doing?

02:41:41.000 He's got some health issues.

02:41:42.000 I know he's got MS and some other issues and stuff like that, but he wants people to know that he's the guy that did that.

02:41:50.000 He does.

02:41:50.000 He wants people to know, I'm the guy that friggin' created all that stuff.

02:41:54.000 He was the matchmaker at the time when I first started working for the UFC in 97. So it has been since 97 you were involved.

02:42:02.000 Yeah, I did UFC 12. That's awesome.

02:42:06.000 And I came in at 16, so you've been around longer than me.

02:42:08.000 That's awesome.

02:42:09.000 Yeah, I remember your debut.

02:42:10.000 I remember.

02:42:12.000 When I was...

02:42:13.000 I remember Mikey Burnett.

02:42:15.000 How's he doing?

02:42:17.000 He's doing, I think, okay.

02:42:19.000 I know he got shot, right?

02:42:20.000 Yeah.

02:42:21.000 In a robbery?

02:42:21.000 Yeah.

02:42:22.000 He was a good guy. 1.00

02:42:24.000 Tough motherfucker. 0.99

02:42:24.000 I remember when he fought Eugenio Tadeo. 0.99

02:42:26.000 And wrecked him.

02:42:27.000 Wrecked him.

02:42:28.000 When everybody thought that he was the next guy. 1.00

02:42:31.000 Eugenio was a psychopath that friggin went after Henzo and was kicking Henzo's ass and they shut the power down in the building so Henzo wouldn't lose. 0.99

02:42:37.000 Remember that? 1.00

02:42:38.000 Yes!

02:42:38.000 That was in Brazil, right?

02:42:39.000 That was craziness back then.

02:42:41.000 Yeah, but Burnett was...

02:42:42.000 Mikey Burnett was a guy who was a Greco national champ. 1.00

02:42:46.000 Benched 405, squatted 405, stronger than shit. 1.00

02:42:49.000 Tough as fuck. 1.00

02:42:50.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:42:51.000 The old days.

02:42:53.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:42:53.000 Fuck, man. 1.00

02:42:54.000 It's been so long. 1.00

02:42:55.000 It's really interesting when you stop and think about it.

02:42:57.000 How many thousands of fights have you called? 0.99

02:42:59.000 I've seen way too many people get fucked up. 0.99

02:43:01.000 I know that. 0.99

02:43:02.000 I'm real numb to watching people get beat up.

02:43:05.000 And that's the thing.

02:43:06.000 That's too...

02:43:08.000 I would say as my coaching career progressed as I got older, you know, when you're young and you're full of testosterone and you're a psychopath and you're coaching, it's just, ah, let's go do this.

02:43:18.000 Right, right. 0.97

02:43:19.000 You know, and as I got older and mellowed out, I mean, I had to lay down on the floor of the locker room before the first Hughes-Trigg fight because I knew Trigg was a dangerous dude, just a tough son of a bitch and a good wrestler, right? 0.97

02:43:31.000 Right. 0.92

02:43:31.000 And I was really nervous for that fight. 0.92

02:43:33.000 I had to lay on my back and just decompress for 30 minutes before that fight just to go out and just coach with a calm mind.

02:43:43.000 When Hughes fought Carlos Newton after Carlos took the title from me, and Carlos comes out and we were infuriated because he's walking out with two Playboy bunnies and acting...

02:43:52.000 And it was, you know, it's a show, right?

02:43:54.000 It's a show.

02:43:54.000 It's Hollywood.

02:43:54.000 That was when that big ramp existed.

02:43:56.000 Right.

02:43:57.000 And so Hughes is standing there, and I was all pumped up.

02:44:00.000 And I was like, Matt, you know, we had to get Matt off a tractor on the farm to come and fight him, right?

02:44:05.000 Because my automatic rematch clause got, they reneged on that and said, your choice, either Matt can fight him or somebody from another camp, but if Matt or somebody from another, if somebody from another camp fights him, you got the winner no matter what.

02:44:16.000 But if Matt fights him and loses, you can rematch Carlos.

02:44:19.000 But if Matt wins, obviously that's kind of tough because we're buddies, right?

02:44:22.000 Right.

02:44:23.000 So Matt's standing inside the cage and I'm pumped.

02:44:26.000 I'm absolutely pumped. 0.67

02:44:27.000 I go, you've got to smash this guy. 1.00

02:44:28.000 I'm screaming at him because you've got to fucking smash him. 0.99

02:44:30.000 And Matt turns around and he goes, it's going to be okay, dude. 0.99

02:44:33.000 It's going to be all right.

02:44:35.000 He goes, we got this, dude.

02:44:36.000 We got this.

02:44:37.000 And I was like, all right.

02:44:38.000 That was a crazy win, too.

02:44:39.000 That's when he slammed him.

02:44:40.000 Slammed him with a triangle.

02:44:41.000 Yeah.

02:44:42.000 Yeah.

02:44:43.000 The entire crowd, their mouths were hanging open.

02:44:45.000 They'd never seen anything like that.

02:44:47.000 Well, was he kind of half out? 0.89

02:44:49.000 He was out.

02:44:50.000 With a triangle?

02:44:50.000 He was out.

02:44:50.000 He was out with a triangle and he slammed him.

02:44:51.000 He knew he was going out and slammed him and then...

02:44:54.000 Went out.

02:44:54.000 Here's the thing.

02:44:56.000 That's right.

02:44:57.000 He jumped up and said, I won?

02:44:58.000 No, Matt sits up like this and he's kind of looking around.

02:45:01.000 And I dove over the cage and let my legs catch on one side so that I could barely touch Matt's head with my hand.

02:45:09.000 And I scraped his hair really fast.

02:45:10.000 I'm like, get up, get up, get up, get up.

02:45:12.000 I knew he was out.

02:45:13.000 So I go, get up, get up.

02:45:14.000 And he stands up and he goes, what happened?

02:45:16.000 And Jeremy goes, you just won. 1.00

02:45:18.000 He's like, fuck yeah. 1.00

02:45:21.000 Crazy. 1.00

02:45:21.000 That was cool. 1.00

02:45:22.000 That was a cool fight.

02:45:24.000 Yeah.

02:45:24.000 Very intense.

02:45:25.000 Yeah, that was very intense.

02:45:26.000 Carlos Newton was one of the most technical jujitsu guys of his era. 0.98

02:45:29.000 Oh, you're sick.

02:45:29.000 Yeah, he was very great.

02:45:30.000 He was amazing.

02:45:31.000 Athletic dude.

02:45:32.000 Yeah.

02:45:32.000 One of the best fights I've ever seen to this day was he and Dan Henderson.

02:45:36.000 Oh, yeah.

02:45:37.000 That was an insane fight.

02:45:38.000 Yeah, that was a great fight.

02:45:39.000 Those guys went back and forth.

02:45:39.000 That was 97, wasn't it?

02:45:41.000 97 or now?

02:45:41.000 Possibly, yeah.

02:45:42.000 Somewhere in that area?

02:45:43.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:45:43.000 That was one of my early days.

02:45:44.000 I remember when Chuck Liddell made his UFC debut.

02:45:47.000 I think he fought Noe Hernandez, and I'm pretty sure he was wearing wrestling shoes.

02:45:50.000 Yeah.

02:45:50.000 Noe Hernandez trained with me for that fight.

02:45:52.000 Tough guy.

02:45:53.000 Noe got hurt before that fight. 0.90

02:45:54.000 I can't remember what he injured, but Noe couldn't train hard for that fight, so he wasn't in great shape, but he was knocking the shit out of Chuck until he ran out of gas. 0.95

02:46:02.000 I mean, he was boxing Chuck's ears off.

02:46:05.000 You know that fight, Peretti came to Chuck and told him, if you want to keep working and keep fighting for the UFC, do not take this guy down.

02:46:12.000 Oh, really?

02:46:12.000 Yeah, because they found out that Chuck was a wrestler.

02:46:14.000 Ah.

02:46:15.000 Wow.

02:46:16.000 Those are the dirty days.

02:46:19.000 That was Gary Shaw telling Petruzzelli and Shamrock type stuff, right?

02:46:24.000 Petruzzelli had to stand up with Kimbo because he replaced Shamrock.

02:46:28.000 I forgot about that guy.

02:46:30.000 One of the greatest interviews ever was Dana White after that.

02:46:33.000 Remember when he looks at the camera and he goes, you can't do that. 0.98

02:46:36.000 It's fucking illegal. 0.99

02:46:37.000 That's fucking illegal. 1.00

02:46:38.000 Yeah, it is fucking illegal. 1.00

02:46:40.000 That was the dumbest matchup too. 1.00

02:46:42.000 There's a video of me in the green room of the punchline in Atlanta, Georgia. 0.98

02:46:47.000 I had gotten off stage and I was waiting to see Ken Shamrock fight Kimbo.

02:46:52.000 And I was like, what a fight this is going to be.

02:46:54.000 I get off stage and they say, oh, Ken Shamrock got hurt warming up and Kimbo is now fighting Seth Petruzzelli.

02:47:03.000 And I go, oh, this is a terrible idea for Kim.

02:47:05.000 And I said it.

02:47:06.000 And I said to the camera, it's like the craziest thing ever. 1.00

02:47:09.000 I go, Seth Patricelli's going to fuck him up. 0.99

02:47:11.000 Right. 1.00

02:47:12.000 Because we're assuming he's going to take him down and submit him.

02:47:14.000 And I thought he was going to KO him.

02:47:16.000 Did you?

02:47:16.000 Seth was a way better striker.

02:47:18.000 I thought Seth was just going to take him down.

02:47:19.000 I thought Seth is a karate striker, like a legit seasoned black belt.

02:47:24.000 And he could submit guys, but he was on another level as a mixed martial artist.

02:47:30.000 I was like, Kimbo's stiff.

02:47:32.000 So here's me, while this is happening.

02:47:35.000 If I'm wrong, you'll never see this.

02:47:37.000 To go to the beginning.

02:47:38.000 Hold on, where did it say at the beginning?

02:47:41.000 This is a last minute replacement. 0.99

02:47:44.000 I gotta think Seth Perez is always gonna fuck him up. 0.97

02:47:47.000 If I'm wrong, you'll never see this. 0.93

02:47:51.000 So it happens in the green mode.

02:47:53.000 Literally, the fight is six seconds long.

02:47:58.000 That's why they do this.

02:47:59.000 Oh, save busy.

02:47:59.000 Look, give him a...

02:48:00.000 Well, uh-oh, yeah.

02:48:01.000 Oh! 0.60

02:48:02.000 Save America! 0.99

02:48:04.000 Oh my God, you're fucking right. 0.99

02:48:05.000 That's it. 0.99

02:48:08.000 That's it!

02:48:08.000 Yes!

02:48:09.000 That's it!

02:48:10.000 That was...

02:48:12.000 You look older there.

02:48:14.000 Well, the beard.

02:48:15.000 I had that full beard back then.

02:48:16.000 That was after Evan died.

02:48:18.000 When Evan Tanner died, we all grew beards.

02:48:20.000 That was a bad deal, man.

02:48:23.000 It was sad.

02:48:24.000 Very bad.

02:48:24.000 Yeah, that guy was...

02:48:26.000 He rolled out there into the desert on a mission, I think.

02:48:29.000 Might have.

02:48:30.000 I mean, maybe when he was out there, he decided to go that way, or maybe he just really did get lost and couldn't find his water, but that's one of the hottest places on earth.

02:48:39.000 I mean, it gets to the 130s and stuff out there.

02:48:42.000 Yeah, that was a bummer.

02:48:43.000 It was a bummer.

02:48:44.000 He was a great guy.

02:48:45.000 He was an interesting guy, too.

02:48:46.000 He was a guy that really wasn't into money.

02:48:48.000 I mean, he was into the journey.

02:48:51.000 He probably would have loved ultra-running.

02:48:54.000 Yeah, absolutely.

02:48:54.000 And he fought down...

02:48:56.000 What was the show in Texas that they were doing back then?

02:48:58.000 Because he cut his teeth in that circuit down there in Texas.

02:49:01.000 I can't remember what shows those were.

02:49:03.000 I don't remember.

02:49:03.000 He fought Texas Fighting Championship or something.

02:49:05.000 He was a tough motherfucker. 0.99

02:49:07.000 Remember when he fought Dave Terrell? 1.00

02:49:08.000 Oh, yeah.

02:49:09.000 I mean, Dave Terrell had him in a guillotine, he wouldn't tap, and then he started smashing him, and that's how he won the title.

02:49:14.000 Terrell was talented. 0.99

02:49:15.000 Fuck yeah, he was. 1.00

02:49:16.000 But he was mentally like he would fall apart, right? 1.00

02:49:19.000 Well, he did in that fight, or at least he gassed out.

02:49:22.000 Something happened in that fight, but yeah, that was the word is that his talent never matched up to his performances.

02:49:28.000 And as a jujitsu player, though, he was very, very successful.

02:49:32.000 Like, I saw him fight in Abu Dhabi. 0.99

02:49:34.000 He was a fucking phenom, man. 0.99

02:49:36.000 I mean, he was phenomenal. 0.99

02:49:37.000 And to this day, produces some of the best black belts. 0.99

02:49:40.000 Who's the best grappler on the planet now, you think?

02:49:42.000 That's a good question.

02:49:44.000 It's hard to tell.

02:49:45.000 I mean, it's probably Donaher's guys.

02:49:47.000 It's probably Gordon Ryan or maybe Gary Tonin or one of those guys.

02:49:52.000 But then there's a lot of really high-level jiu-jitsu guys.

02:49:55.000 See, the thing is, no one is caught up to Donaher's leg game.

02:50:00.000 There's a few guys.

02:50:02.000 There's Craig Jones out of Australia that's on a real high level.

02:50:06.000 There's a bunch of guys that are... 0.99

02:50:08.000 They're closing in, but it seems like what Donaher is doing, and Donaher is such a fucking wizard. 0.99

02:50:15.000 Right. 0.97

02:50:16.000 He's such a genius, and his application of his mind, you know, because Donaher is severely crippled.

02:50:21.000 He's got one fake hip, and they're going to replace one of his knees.

02:50:25.000 Right. 0.79

02:50:26.000 And he hurt his knee a long time ago from a rugby accident, and his knee was so loose and fucked up that they shortened his tendons and stitched them back together again, but they shortened him too much. 0.95

02:50:37.000 Wow. 0.91

02:50:38.000 He never could fully extend his leg, and he was fucked up from then on out, and then it caused a defect in his hip. 0.99

02:50:46.000 Wore it out then. 0.98

02:50:47.000 Yeah, it wore out his hip.

02:50:48.000 So he's severely injured, but his mind...

02:50:51.000 He's a genius.

02:50:53.000 Very, very, very intelligent guy.

02:50:55.000 Superior intellect.

02:50:57.000 And the way he's applied that thought process to jiu-jitsu is just incredibly unique.

02:51:03.000 And so those guys, Eddie Cummings, Nicky Ryan, Gordon Ryan, the Donaher Death Squad, what they call it. 0.95

02:51:09.000 I have to think that, at least in terms of accomplishments, I mean, that guy submitted Cyborg, Ricardo Abreu, I mean, fucking easy.

02:51:17.000 If you watch that fight, and I had John Donaher on the podcast break down what he did to Cyborg.

02:51:23.000 Cyborg's a multiple-time world champion, and Gordon Ryan went right through him, and Gordon Ryan's 22 years old.

02:51:28.000 I think, somewhere around that.

02:51:30.000 I look at great grapplers throughout history from back...

02:51:35.000 The early Gracies, you know, the Farmer Burns, all these scary dudes and stuff.

02:51:39.000 And as it moves forward in time and just watching guys, how they, it's almost like a constant cyclical.

02:51:46.000 There's a cycle there of you learn how to defend stuff.

02:51:50.000 You hit stuff.

02:51:51.000 People learn how to defend it and you move on. 0.93

02:51:52.000 And it's this constant cycle of it and then new shit coming out and creative stuff. 0.91

02:51:57.000 And I just watch it evolve and go, man, I just, I wish I could stay young forever just to have fun with it. 0.96

02:52:02.000 You know what I mean?

02:52:02.000 With your body, yeah.

02:52:04.000 It's an unfortunate thing that your mind absorbs all these techniques and you understand how to compete better, but your body just gives out.

02:52:11.000 Right.

02:52:11.000 And that's the thing with MMA especially.

02:52:13.000 I think it's a race to amass enough knowledge.

02:52:17.000 To win a title before the body gets out.

02:52:19.000 It just is.

02:52:21.000 Well, that's why TRT was so interesting.

02:52:22.000 Like the TRT Vitor days. 0.99

02:52:25.000 Because you had Vitor juiced to the tits. 0.99

02:52:28.000 And with all that experience. 0.97

02:52:30.000 I mean, Vitor made his UFC debut back when I called my first fight.

02:52:34.000 When I was a post-fight interviewer, rather.

02:52:36.000 In UFC 12. That was his debut at 19 years of age.

02:52:39.000 So here you have him at 37, juiced out of his fucking mind with muscles on his eyebrows. 0.98

02:52:45.000 I mean, he was so jacked when he fought Rockhold, when he fought Bisping. 0.99

02:52:50.000 I mean, clearly he was not just taking testosterone replacement therapy.

02:52:55.000 He was juiced up.

02:52:57.000 I mean, he was way above normal levels.

02:53:00.000 I remember UFC Brazil.

02:53:01.000 I was fighting...

02:53:03.000 Vanderlei and Vitor were fighting each other.

02:53:06.000 Oh, yeah.

02:53:06.000 Right?

02:53:07.000 And you knew that was a collision.

02:53:08.000 Yeah.

02:53:08.000 That was two scary dudes.

02:53:10.000 Vitor wore shoes for that fight.

02:53:12.000 But here's the crazy thing.

02:53:13.000 I'm in my locker room.

02:53:14.000 I'm getting ready to fight.

02:53:16.000 And one of Vitor's trainers comes in.

02:53:19.000 Vitor sent them to get me to come give him a pep talk.

02:53:22.000 Whoa.

02:53:23.000 That was the fight when he had hid for like three days.

02:53:27.000 Because he was terrified.

02:53:28.000 Vanderlei was so scary back then.

02:53:29.000 He was having just this, I think, a mental breakdown.

02:53:33.000 Yeah.

02:53:33.000 An anxiety attack about fighting Vanderlei Silva.

02:53:38.000 So he's in his locker room, and he's sitting in the corner, and he's like, with his eyes big, he's scared to death. 0.97

02:53:43.000 And I walked in there, and I'm like, dude, fucking we're fighting for world titles. 0.97

02:53:48.000 What are you doing? 0.99

02:53:49.000 What is wrong with you? 1.00

02:53:50.000 Let's fucking go. 1.00

02:53:50.000 Let's fucking kill these guys. 1.00

02:53:52.000 Got him all pumped up. 1.00

02:53:53.000 And he's like, all right, all right.

02:53:56.000 Well, he had gotten beaten down by Randy before that.

02:53:58.000 Right.

02:53:59.000 That fight took a lot out of him.

02:54:00.000 He wasn't the same guy for a long time after that fight.

02:54:03.000 The most brutal fight I've ever seen in my life that was Omri Batesh and Don Frye.

02:54:08.000 I remember that.

02:54:09.000 In Kobo Arena in Detroit.

02:54:10.000 Don was way too big.

02:54:11.000 It was...

02:54:11.000 Way too strong.

02:54:12.000 It was horrifying because Omri had shot on him and...

02:54:18.000 Don Frye's walking his feet up the cage and dropping knees straight down on the back of Omri's head when those were legal.

02:54:24.000 And the entire crowd is roaring.

02:54:26.000 Kobo Arena's packed.

02:54:27.000 They're going nuts. 0.57

02:54:28.000 And all you can hear over the top of everything is Omri's girlfriend screaming bloody murder. 0.92

02:54:35.000 Like someone was being slaughtered in front of her.

02:54:38.000 Which they were, right?

02:54:39.000 And then you've got Esvaldo Alves, who's an encyclopedia of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

02:54:43.000 Amazing guy.

02:54:45.000 And Alan Goez.

02:54:46.000 And Alan Goez, I had been up there all week to help Omri get ready for the fight, right?

02:54:51.000 And Alan Goez shows up the day of the fight, the night of the fight, walks into the locker room and goes, what's your name?

02:54:58.000 And I go, Pat.

02:54:59.000 And he goes, here's a camera. 1.00

02:55:01.000 Take fucking pictures. 0.99

02:55:03.000 That's the way Alan treated me when we first met, right? 1.00

02:55:06.000 Wow.

02:55:06.000 So I'm watching...

02:55:08.000 Omri get mauled, just completely slaughtered. 1.00

02:55:11.000 And these guys won't throw in the towel.

02:55:13.000 And I'm going, you got to throw in the towel.

02:55:17.000 This ain't changing. 1.00

02:55:18.000 This is stupid. 1.00

02:55:19.000 This is stupid. 1.00

02:55:20.000 And John had stopped the fight. 1.00

02:55:22.000 McCarthy pulled him over.

02:55:23.000 And he goes, do you want to continue?

02:55:24.000 All Omri knew in English was more.

02:55:27.000 More.

02:55:28.000 And he's like, alright, we're going again.

02:55:30.000 And he gets slaughtered some more, pulling back off.

02:55:33.000 More, more, sending back out.

02:55:35.000 And finally John's like, we're going to have a fatality here.

02:55:37.000 Jesus.

02:55:38.000 So that was a horrifying fight.

02:55:40.000 That was the most brutal fight I've ever seen.

02:55:41.000 Yeah, there's been a few of those over the years.

02:55:45.000 It's been a few of those.

02:55:47.000 Well, listen, Pat, we just did three hours.

02:55:49.000 Three hours plus.

02:55:50.000 Holy cow. 0.89

02:55:51.000 Time flies by, man.

02:55:52.000 I'm glad we finally did this.

02:55:53.000 I'm surprised my attention span lasted this long.

02:55:55.000 Your attention span's on point, man.

02:55:57.000 It's all that ultra-marathon running.

02:55:58.000 Right, right.

02:55:59.000 We gotta do this again, man.

02:56:00.000 Yeah, I'd love to.

02:56:00.000 And please, everybody, check out The Conspiracy Farm.

02:56:03.000 Is it on iTunes?

02:56:04.000 It's on everything?

02:56:04.000 Yeah.

02:56:05.000 And if they go to chemicalfreebody.com, you would love that stuff.

02:56:09.000 Okay.

02:56:10.000 Chemicalfreebody.com.

02:56:11.000 It's all vegan products, sprouted greens, all kinds.

02:56:14.000 I mean, the guy is gold.

02:56:15.000 Is that your company or something? 0.99

02:56:16.000 A good friend of mine, Tim James, who's saving people's lives from cancer to all kinds of shit. 0.97

02:56:20.000 He is healing people. 0.97

02:56:21.000 Veterans with all kinds of open wounds from chemical stuff.

02:56:24.000 Are you still doing lion fight commentary?

02:56:27.000 Lion Fight, we no longer cover them.

02:56:29.000 We cover CES and LFA right now.

02:56:32.000 And you're in town for that, right?

02:56:34.000 What is the event?

02:56:35.000 Is it on AXS? AXS TV, Friday night, yeah.

02:56:37.000 Mark Cuban's network.

02:56:38.000 We're going to have a blast.

02:56:39.000 It's going to be great fights, title fights.

02:56:40.000 There's some great fights.

02:56:42.000 Beautiful.

02:56:43.000 All right.

02:56:43.000 Pat Miletic, ladies and gentlemen.

02:56:45.000 Thank you, brother.

02:56:45.000 Appreciate it, man.

The Joe Rogan Experience - April 27, 2010

JRE MMA Show #18 with Pat Miletich

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