The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #24 with Kevin Lee

00:00:04.000 Boom, and we're live.

00:00:06.000 Kevin Lee.

00:00:07.000 Yes, sir.

00:00:07.000 This is about as fresh off of a fight as you can get, man.

00:00:10.000 Yeah, just about.

00:00:11.000 Touching down.

00:00:12.000 Yeah, barely slept.

00:00:13.000 Yeah, right?

00:00:14.000 It must have been a crazy...

00:00:16.000 First of all, after a fight, you're probably so wired and can't believe it's over.

00:00:21.000 What is it like?

00:00:22.000 It takes you a minute for it to hit you, really.

00:00:25.000 I didn't sleep at all after the fight.

00:00:27.000 I just...

00:00:29.000 I laid there for a little bit, mind kind of racing.

00:00:31.000 Didn't really settle down.

00:00:34.000 I just ended up just getting up, getting some breakfast, and then right on the plane over here.

00:00:38.000 Didn't sleep all night on the plane.

00:00:40.000 Came over here, 3 a.m.

00:00:41.000 I've been up all morning.

00:00:42.000 But what are you, like 25?

00:00:44.000 Yeah, yeah, I keep going.

00:00:46.000 Rockstar lifestyle, baby.

00:00:47.000 I gotta live it.

00:00:48.000 25, you can do that for like two days in a row before it really starts to settle in.

00:00:52.000 Yeah, no, I'll be good for a minute.

00:00:54.000 I mean, besides getting kicked in the head, I'm all good other than that.

00:00:57.000 Dude, first of all, it was a very, very, very impressive performance. 0.98

00:01:01.000 I mean, Edson Barboza is no fucking joke and notoriously difficult to take down.

00:01:06.000 Even Khabib struggled getting him down the early parts of the first round, but you got him down quick. 0.78

00:01:11.000 Yeah, I think a lot of people underestimate that, especially how technical my wrestling can get.

00:01:16.000 I just feel like...

00:01:19.000 Edson was really strong.

00:01:21.000 He was probably the strongest guy that I've ever faced physically...

00:01:26.000 His body moved a little bit different.

00:01:29.000 Technically, I just had the aspect there.

00:01:31.000 When you add those two things up, I'm equally as strong.

00:01:35.000 I'm just going to blow him off the water.

00:01:36.000 He's just a bundle of fast twitch muscle fiber, man.

00:01:42.000 People, they'll see the Khabib fight and they'll see this fight with you. 0.99

00:01:45.000 They might not understand how good that guy really is.

00:01:47.000 He's very, very good.

00:01:48.000 He's a beast and he's going to come back and he's going to knock some people out.

00:01:52.000 He's only going to get better from here, I think.

00:01:55.000 It's just the styles make the fights too.

00:01:58.000 And me, I feel like I can fight any style.

00:02:00.000 That was my number one goal when I got into this sport, just to be the most well-rounded, complete fighter that there is.

00:02:06.000 And I feel like I can take advantage of some of his things that he's not getting good at.

00:02:12.000 But he's going to get better at them.

00:02:14.000 He's going to be back. 0.96

00:02:14.000 He's a beast. 0.96

00:02:15.000 Well, that focus and that mindset of being well-rounded was very obvious in that fight.

00:02:19.000 I was very impressed by the fact you fight just as good southpaw as you do orthodox.

00:02:24.000 You switch up easily.

00:02:26.000 I've only been going southpaw for maybe the past year, year and a half or so, and just kind of getting a filler for it down, but I feel like that could be one of the...

00:02:35.000 When you listen to a lot of the great fighters in the past, they talk about a right-handed southpaw.

00:02:40.000 There's so many advantages that can be there.

00:02:43.000 And it's just always great to be able to switch up and change time, especially when you've got a guy that's trying to time you like Edson.

00:02:49.000 Yeah, they say that if you work on the opposite side, it actually makes the other side better.

00:02:55.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:02:55.000 It makes it a little bit easier when you switch back.

00:02:57.000 And I've noticed that.

00:02:58.000 I mean, there's still some kinks and twists that I want to kind of get out of there. 1.00

00:03:02.000 You know, you see, I study a lot of people.

00:03:05.000 I study a lot of switch fighters, especially in MMA. Recently, I want to say about the last two years, guys have been doing it more often.

00:03:12.000 But some guys do it better than others.

00:03:14.000 I try and get the perfect mix, you know?

00:03:17.000 Well, some guys do it, but there's a twist, right?

00:03:19.000 Like, Wonderboy does it, but when Wonderboy does it, you know that the front leg is coming.

00:03:24.000 He can fight any style.

00:03:28.000 I mean, he can fight left or right, but when he switches, when he goes right, you know that front leg side kick's coming, that front leg roundhouse kick is coming, and then when he stands orthodox, he's much more likely to throw a punch or maybe even spin.

00:03:40.000 He mixes it up, but he's limited, maybe, in the way he attacks.

00:03:45.000 The blending of it, I think.

00:03:47.000 Wonderboy is one of those guys that his switches are really...

00:03:51.000 You can see them coming.

00:03:53.000 He makes them really pronounced.

00:03:55.000 They're big switches.

00:03:56.000 And you know the attacks that are coming.

00:03:58.000 There are certain guys like TJ Dillashaw who is great at mixing it up completely.

00:04:02.000 Right.

00:04:02.000 Where I feel like he doesn't sit down on his punches too much or, you know, he gets in spots where he can get clipped in between those with your feet off the ground.

00:04:10.000 So I try to find the happy medium between those two, switching up too much and being able to make those hard switches too.

00:04:17.000 Well, TJ's really been doing that style for just like three or four years now since he's been with Bang.

00:04:21.000 Maybe it was about...

00:04:22.000 I want to say three years, four years.

00:04:24.000 Yeah, probably.

00:04:25.000 It takes some time to get used to it.

00:04:27.000 Get used to the timing and everything.

00:04:28.000 And that's one of the things with me.

00:04:29.000 I try and be the most consistent guy that there is out there.

00:04:33.000 So the more consistently I'm getting in there, the more I'm seeing things coming.

00:04:36.000 I'm reading the angles and getting a lot of different looks, a lot of different bodies being thrown at me.

00:04:42.000 So all that adds up to experience.

00:04:45.000 And it's only going to get better from there.

00:04:47.000 Yeah, it's also one of those things.

00:04:48.000 When you're 25 years old, you still are, like, realistically five years away from your athletic prime.

00:04:54.000 Yeah, I keep that in the back of my mind sometimes because, you know, you obviously don't want to overwork the body too much.

00:05:00.000 You don't want to burn out.

00:05:02.000 But I think it's just staying consistent and staying healthy.

00:05:05.000 As long as I'm healthy through it, you know, I got through that fight.

00:05:07.000 No serious damages at all.

00:05:10.000 And that's the most important thing is just staying healthy when I'm young.

00:05:13.000 And then, you know, tailing back when I'm starting to get more damages or more injuries.

00:05:17.000 But I do a great job of keeping my body healthy, I think, more than anything.

00:05:21.000 What do you, like, when you're in, I know Robert Foles was your coach for quite a long time.

00:05:26.000 And we both miss him.

00:05:28.000 I'm sure you were very close with him.

00:05:30.000 He was such a great guy.

00:05:31.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:05:32.000 Was he the guy that, like, did he sort of map out your training program when you were in camp?

00:05:37.000 You know, I had, we kind of structured it, or at least I try to structure it like a full team aspect.

00:05:44.000 You know, Rob was kind of like, I think of it like a race car.

00:05:47.000 You know, I'm the race car itself, but Rob was like the head driver.

00:05:52.000 You know, Rob was telling me where to go, what to do.

00:05:54.000 Dewey was kind of like my horsepower.

00:05:56.000 Dewey Cooper?

00:05:56.000 Yeah, Dewey Cooper.

00:05:58.000 I mean, phenomenal striking coach, if you ever.

00:06:00.000 Fantastic fighter.

00:06:01.000 With him, he was a smaller heavyweight, but he would fight giant guys like Peter Arts.

00:06:07.000 And to do that, you look at him, he's only about 220, 6'1", maybe.

00:06:12.000 He's fighting 6'7", 300-pound guys.

00:06:15.000 So he has to be extra technical in there, not rely on his speed and power.

00:06:19.000 That's why I think he makes such a great coach, and he pushes me through it.

00:06:24.000 But I had another guy I've been working with, Corey Goodwin, for the last four or five years since I've been on Vegas.

00:06:29.000 He's kind of like the mechanic.

00:06:30.000 He keeps my body fresh and going.

00:06:33.000 Is he your strength and conditioning guy?

00:06:34.000 Yes.

00:06:35.000 We call it that, but what we do is a lot different than strength and conditioning.

00:06:40.000 I don't lift any weights.

00:06:44.000 For real?

00:06:45.000 Yeah.

00:06:45.000 I haven't touched a weight since college.

00:06:48.000 Wow.

00:06:48.000 The only time I did was when I went over and I started working with the UFC PI guys a little bit.

00:06:53.000 They wanted me to touch weights.

00:06:56.000 It's just not a good fit for me.

00:06:58.000 Are you doing...

00:06:59.000 What are you doing?

00:07:01.000 Plyometrics?

00:07:01.000 Are you doing...

00:07:02.000 He'd have to explain it to you more.

00:07:04.000 You know, that's his...

00:07:05.000 He worked through EXO's for a long time, so he took a lot of their physiology and...

00:07:11.000 What is that?

00:07:12.000 EXO's.

00:07:12.000 What's EXO's?

00:07:14.000 I think they just signed a deal with the UFC too.

00:07:16.000 A lot of guys have been going over and they're a big strength and conditioning program.

00:07:21.000 They got a big facility down in Arizona, but they used to be based out of Vegas.

00:07:25.000 So he worked for them, where he gets a lot of his training philosophies and stuff from.

00:07:29.000 But it's not...

00:07:30.000 It's not any weight lifting.

00:07:32.000 Calisthenics, chin-ups, push-ups?

00:07:33.000 Yeah, a lot of calisthenics, a lot of movement.

00:07:36.000 We work a lot of the joints, especially, where he overextends my joints, he pushes them past the limit, and then we work out from there.

00:07:44.000 So it's not very heavy lifting.

00:07:46.000 It's maybe 15 pounds.

00:07:47.000 What do you mean by pushing them past the limit?

00:07:49.000 Like hyperextend it?

00:07:51.000 Yeah, I mean, no.

00:07:52.000 Like he pulls it almost like you get an armbar?

00:07:53.000 So, one of the things we do is he takes a band and he stretches it out so it really pulls my shoulder.

00:07:59.000 And I was telling you, I very rarely have shoulder problems.

00:08:02.000 And I think a large reason, he pulls it all the way out, kind of out the socket, and then we work it out from there, you know, to build strength from those little muscles.

00:08:13.000 Which I feel like is...

00:08:15.000 That's the part where I get my true strength from, you know?

00:08:17.000 I do that, a lot of yoga, a lot of, you know, a lot of things that just all the strength comes from within me, not lifting weights or anything.

00:08:24.000 How often are you doing yoga when you're in camp?

00:08:26.000 Two, three times.

00:08:28.000 I've only been doing it for like four or five months since the Tony fight.

00:08:32.000 It's been helping me a lot.

00:08:34.000 When I started doing it, guys were like, oh, what are you lifting or something?

00:08:37.000 I'm like, nah, just... 0.99

00:08:39.000 That shit's hard. 1.00

00:08:40.000 I'm like fucking just doing yoga. 1.00

00:08:42.000 Isn't it crazy how hard it is? 1.00

00:08:43.000 It sounds like you're just fucking off. 0.99

00:08:46.000 Like, yeah, I'm doing yoga. 1.00

00:08:47.000 Oh, you lazy bitch. 1.00

00:08:48.000 What are you doing? 1.00

00:08:48.000 Stretching, touching your toes and shit? 1.00

00:08:50.000 Maybe for like the first two months, like I'd be like ashamed to tell people. 0.99

00:08:54.000 They're like, where are you going?

00:08:55.000 I'm like, you know, I'm going to this one class. 0.99

00:08:58.000 You know, we're going to be lifting a lot of weights and we're going to be grunting and shit. 0.99

00:09:02.000 Nah, I'm in there with like the fucking... 1.00

00:09:05.000 Housewives. 1.00

00:09:06.000 And they're killing me. 0.99

00:09:07.000 It's crazy, right? 0.99

00:09:08.000 They're killing me. 0.92

00:09:09.000 They're killing me. 0.79

00:09:10.000 I've gotten good now, though.

00:09:11.000 Do you do hot yoga?

00:09:13.000 Yeah.

00:09:14.000 Hot yoga.

00:09:15.000 I do a couple different vinyasa a little bit.

00:09:19.000 I try and dibble-dabble.

00:09:21.000 But I've only been doing it for a couple months now.

00:09:24.000 How do you structure your camp?

00:09:27.000 How much strength and conditioning are you doing?

00:09:29.000 How much skill work?

00:09:30.000 It kind of depends on the opponent too.

00:09:35.000 Generally, I'm doing three times a week of some type of grappling, whether that's wrestling or no-gi.

00:09:43.000 Then I only spar once a week at the end of the weeks.

00:09:46.000 We pick our sparring partners that we choose.

00:09:49.000 You know, we fly guys in or guys that are in town because I'm in Vegas.

00:09:52.000 All guys are always in and out.

00:09:55.000 But then, you know, I only do strength and conditioning maybe two times a week.

00:09:58.000 Not too much.

00:09:59.000 Now, when you say you spar once a week and you bring guys in, are you sparring hard or do you spar more technical?

00:10:07.000 When I'm in camp, maybe four or five good, but I go pretty hard.

00:10:11.000 And it ruins me sometimes because I run out of sparring partners and guys don't want to show up and all this.

00:10:18.000 But I ended up having to start paying guys.

00:10:20.000 Just come on, man.

00:10:21.000 Give me some work here.

00:10:22.000 Right.

00:10:22.000 Yeah, we're trying to make some money.

00:10:24.000 Do you think that that's the way to go, like, for longevity?

00:10:27.000 There's the big debate, right? 0.98

00:10:29.000 Whether or not you should spar skill-wise and then save it up for the fight, or whether you should just fucking go to war. 0.63

00:10:34.000 I think you need that reaction time, you know, with a guy that's seriously throwing at you. 0.53

00:10:41.000 And, I mean, we're not trying to hurt each other, for sure.

00:10:43.000 Like, 80% maybe?

00:10:45.000 70%?

00:10:46.000 Something like that?

00:10:47.000 We go pretty hard up until you obviously can see that there's an injury or somebody's hurt or you back down.

00:10:53.000 Even on some of my takedowns, I back down, obviously.

00:10:57.000 I'm not trying to knock the guy out, but I am trying to give him some good work.

00:11:01.000 I hope he does the same in return, but we pick smart guys that'll do it.

00:11:05.000 That's what it's about at that level.

00:11:07.000 When you've got two very high level guys going against each other, we can go hard and not injure. 0.96

00:11:12.000 If I'm going with a new guy or it's a newer team, I don't even try to fuck around with it. 0.98

00:11:17.000 Someone's trying to make a name off you. 0.99

00:11:18.000 Yeah, I don't fuck around with it. 1.00

00:11:20.000 That's too much. 0.99

00:11:21.000 I remember I ran into Vitor once and his hand was in a cast and he hadn't had a fight in a while.

00:11:26.000 I said, what happened?

00:11:26.000 He said, some new guy came into the gym and he's sparring with this new guy and this new guy's trying to kill him and he broke his hand on this dude's forehead.

00:11:34.000 And I was thinking, you're Vitor Belfort.

00:11:35.000 I mean, this is Vitor like...

00:11:38.000 I want to say, like, eight, nine years ago.

00:11:40.000 I was like, man, like, that's crazy. 0.99

00:11:42.000 But that's the kind of shit that happens, right? 0.99

00:11:44.000 And guys are very tough in the gym. 0.99

00:11:45.000 I mean, especially some of the new dudes.

00:11:47.000 Like, they're tougher than you think they would be.

00:11:51.000 They're coming out with, you know, new...

00:11:53.000 I think each generation has a new style, too, that you don't get used to.

00:11:58.000 And if it...

00:11:59.000 You know, if them boys would catch you, they'd be hungrier than you.

00:12:02.000 Well, you're seeing all these new guys that are coming up that can do everything. 0.96

00:12:05.000 You know, they have like Taekwondo skills, they got Muay Thai, they can wrestle, they do flying arm bars and shit.

00:12:11.000 There's just, kids are, because MMA is such a part of like the zeitgeist now, and everybody understands it, and kids know if you want to be a really tough fighter, it's not about boxing, it's about MMA. And so you're getting these wild-ass kids at a really young age practicing this shit on each other, learning it, going to gyms when they're 9, 10 years old. 0.97

00:12:34.000 By the time they're in high school, they're killers. 0.99

00:12:35.000 Yeah, and we have so many of them that come through Vegas especially.

00:12:39.000 And I think that's my favorite part about living there is the training partners and, like you said, the new kids.

00:12:45.000 Even though I'm only 25, I'm trying to see what they're doing that's coming up next.

00:12:50.000 That's smart.

00:12:51.000 Because they're going to come with something That you ain't seen before.

00:12:55.000 And there's some out there.

00:12:56.000 Like, even my younger brother.

00:12:58.000 My younger brother's just getting started in his MRA career.

00:13:01.000 He's only got five pro fights now.

00:13:03.000 Eight in total.

00:13:04.000 So, not that many fights, but some of the things that he do, I'm like, you know, let me learn from you a little bit.

00:13:11.000 Well, the Barboza fight, you got clipped, what was it, third round?

00:13:14.000 The beginning of the third round, you got clipped with that wheel kick?

00:13:17.000 That recovery was amazing, though, man.

00:13:19.000 That's an amazing recovery. 0.99

00:13:20.000 I mean, Barboza puts people out with that shit, and your legs completely gave out. 0.99

00:13:25.000 But... 1.00

00:13:26.000 Man, that's a weird moment, right?

00:13:28.000 Where like anything, if he wasn't near you, right?

00:13:32.000 Where you could grab ahold of him and take him down.

00:13:34.000 If he just stepped back a little bit, you know?

00:13:37.000 Interesting, right?

00:13:38.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:13:38.000 I mean, I was still there.

00:13:40.000 You know, I never went away.

00:13:42.000 And I think a lot of, even the way I moved, when somebody showed me that video after, I cracked up.

00:13:48.000 I was dying laughing.

00:13:50.000 Because when I'm in there, I don't know what happened, you know?

00:13:52.000 I see the video and I see my legs just go...

00:13:55.000 The remix that somebody did with the music?

00:13:57.000 There's a couple of them, bro.

00:13:59.000 They're pretty good, though.

00:14:00.000 I've been laughing along to them all morning.

00:14:01.000 Well, because you won, it's funny.

00:14:03.000 Yeah, it's funny.

00:14:04.000 Because you won, it's funny.

00:14:06.000 But I think a lot of, you see, a lot of what I was, my focus going into this one was really on my footwork, my balance, you know, doing yoga.

00:14:14.000 I've been dancing, too, a little bit.

00:14:16.000 What kind of dancing?

00:14:18.000 Some ballet and salsa. 0.99

00:14:21.000 I've heard a lot of guys, look, Lomachenko, his dad had him enrolled in dance for four fucking years. 0.97

00:14:28.000 Traditional Russian dancing, and he credits that for his footwork. 0.92

00:14:31.000 Yeah, I mean, I've only been doing it for a short amount of time, but still, I can tell right off the bat.

00:14:36.000 And I think a lot of what you saw there was that, you know?

00:14:39.000 When I looked at before, the only other fight I've ever got dropped in or hurt seriously was the Leonardo Santos fight.

00:14:46.000 And really, it was me dropping back on my ankle.

00:14:49.000 And I broke my ankle in that fight.

00:14:51.000 So when I tried to stand back up, it looked like I wobbled.

00:14:54.000 And that's why John McCarthy stepped in.

00:14:56.000 So a lot of what I focused on was the balance.

00:14:58.000 So when that equilibrium gave off, and you see, I saw four guys in front of me. 0.99

00:15:04.000 I'm just like, let me just keep my eyes on this motherfucker right here. 0.99

00:15:07.000 It's crazy because you think of how hard Barboza is usually to take down. 0.99

00:15:10.000 You just got...

00:15:11.000 It was very fortunate that he was right there for you to grab him because he was trying to move in for the kill.

00:15:15.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:15:16.000 I mean, it's... 0.98

00:15:17.000 If you were his coach, you would have been screaming, get the fuck away from him, right? 0.96

00:15:21.000 Honestly, his coach was not doing him no favors during that fight. 0.98

00:15:25.000 I felt bad for the guy.

00:15:26.000 What do you mean?

00:15:27.000 What way?

00:15:28.000 They could have did him better.

00:15:33.000 I probably could have put him away in the second round.

00:15:36.000 But he was panicking.

00:15:38.000 And I could see it in him.

00:15:40.000 And his coaches caused him to panic a little bit more.

00:15:42.000 They just kept screaming at him the time.

00:15:44.000 Like, you only got two minutes to survive.

00:15:46.000 And I was like, let me not.

00:15:49.000 Barboza's a nice guy.

00:15:49.000 He really is.

00:15:51.000 And I didn't want to hurt him too bad.

00:15:53.000 Just two very similar fights for him in a row.

00:15:55.000 Two maulings in a row.

00:15:57.000 That's...

00:15:58.000 When you're that guy who wants to stand up, and you've got guys that are just constant pressure, constant pressure, people don't realize how much endurance it takes to move away, too.

00:16:08.000 Moving backwards, it's a lot more difficult to do.

00:16:11.000 Yeah, true.

00:16:12.000 I feel like everything kind of pushed.

00:16:14.000 It's about who controls the pace of the fight, and I feel like I did a good job of that.

00:16:19.000 You know, I thought even after I got wobbled with the kick in the third, I still came back.

00:16:23.000 You won the round.

00:16:24.000 Yeah, I tried to make it a point to finish standing.

00:16:25.000 Other than that moment, you won the round.

00:16:27.000 You know, and you hurt him bad in the second round, too, with a kick to the body.

00:16:31.000 You could see him cover up and tense, but you could see it.

00:16:34.000 It was a strong right kick to the body.

00:16:37.000 One of the reporters, he asked me, like, why was I standing at range with him?

00:16:41.000 And it's just like, I feel like I can do it all, you know?

00:16:45.000 And that's my true sense.

00:16:46.000 It's like, I can stand at range with, I mean, he's definitely the most explosive, dynamic, all those things that you want to say, the best kicker in the lightweight division.

00:16:56.000 And I can stand at range with him and kick just as well with him.

00:16:59.000 I can wrestle with the best wrestlers.

00:17:01.000 I can kick with the best kickboxers. 0.99

00:17:03.000 I can punch with the best boxers.

00:17:05.000 So why not test myself? 1.00

00:17:06.000 I'm not one of these guys who shy away from shit. 0.99

00:17:08.000 He's an interesting case because he's really primarily a kicker. 0.99

00:17:11.000 He will throw punches, but that's not his strong suit.

00:17:14.000 I mean, he's not a guy that just wants to, you know, just dig in and throw bombs.

00:17:18.000 Yeah, but he got some bombs, too!

00:17:20.000 I'm sure he's got some bombs, I'm sure!

00:17:21.000 He hit me with a monstrous left hook in the fifth round.

00:17:26.000 I was like, man, he's still there.

00:17:28.000 The kid never gave up.

00:17:30.000 He was taking a beating. 0.86

00:17:31.000 He hit me with a monstrous left hook. 0.98

00:17:34.000 So I gave him one back and busted his orbital up pretty good.

00:17:37.000 But he was still there to the very end.

00:17:40.000 He can box, too.

00:17:42.000 He's got some power in his hands.

00:17:43.000 Yeah, and the cut was a pretty nasty cut.

00:17:45.000 Pretty nasty cut over his right eye when they stopped the fight.

00:17:47.000 Were you shocked that they stopped it?

00:17:49.000 Nah, I thought it was the right call.

00:17:51.000 I think more coaches in MMA should definitely get in there a little bit sooner. 0.76

00:17:58.000 I think that's what some of my problem with his corner was, too.

00:18:02.000 You see some of these fights, and you can kind of tell when a guy just doesn't.

00:18:06.000 You know, it doesn't make sense to make him take more beats.

00:18:09.000 Somebody like Barbozic is explosive to the very, very end.

00:18:12.000 You have to give that to him.

00:18:13.000 That's the thing you never know, right?

00:18:15.000 I mean, if he connected with that left hook perfect and you went out, and then he's a hero. 1.00

00:18:19.000 Yeah, then, you know, I guess you look like the asshole, but, you know, I don't know. 1.00

00:18:24.000 It's a thin line to cross. 1.00

00:18:25.000 Yeah, it's a tough decision.

00:18:26.000 You don't want to be there when your guy's getting beaten up like that, and you have to make that call.

00:18:31.000 Yeah.

00:18:31.000 And I mean, maybe I'm just speaking from because I'm not a coach yet.

00:18:34.000 Maybe, you know, my stance will change when I'm when I am a coach, but you know, or if I have a coach, but we'll see.

00:18:41.000 Yeah, it's different.

00:18:43.000 I mean, the same thing with referees.

00:18:45.000 And Keith Peterson did a great job in that fight.

00:18:47.000 He's a guy that doesn't get enough credit.

00:18:48.000 There's a few, like, you know, Herb Dean, I think, because John McCarthy's retired.

00:18:53.000 I think he's the gold standard.

00:18:54.000 Josh Rosenthal.

00:18:55.000 There's a bunch of really good guys.

00:18:56.000 But that's a tough call to decide when to stop. 0.94

00:18:59.000 I think even Yamasaki, you know, Yamasaki takes a lot of bullshit, especially from Dana don't like him at all. 1.00

00:19:06.000 He hate that motherfucker. 0.99

00:19:08.000 But he does a great job in there. 1.00

00:19:11.000 Even that fight where he let the girl take a lot of punches, a lot of damage, she was still moving.

00:19:16.000 She was still showing that she was in the fight.

00:19:17.000 I think you got to put that on her coaches and her trainers.

00:19:21.000 They know if she's really in there.

00:19:25.000 Some guys are just too tough for their own good, like Barboza.

00:19:27.000 Well, she was fighting Valentina Shevchenko.

00:19:30.000 She just shouldn't have been in there.

00:19:31.000 She just shouldn't have been in there.

00:19:32.000 It was her first UFC fight, and she's fighting a woman who's just a straight-up assassin. 1.00

00:19:36.000 Yeah, and it can't be on the ref.

00:19:38.000 You can't put it on the ref to know that, you know, or to make that call.

00:19:42.000 The ref has to be completely, you know, not objective at all.

00:19:49.000 I think it's got to put it on the coaches.

00:19:50.000 They should know.

00:19:51.000 What weight do you walk around at?

00:19:54.000 If I'm completely just kind of like bullshitting, doing whatever, I've gotten to as high as like 195. Now, when you're in training, like when you get, like say you're four weeks out, where are you at?

00:20:04.000 85 usually.

00:20:05.000 185?

00:20:06.000 Yeah, 85. So you're cutting a lot of weight, man.

00:20:08.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:20:09.000 I mean, that's...

00:20:09.000 Do you see yourself ever moving to 70 or...

00:20:12.000 No, not 70 necessarily.

00:20:14.000 At that point, you're talking about a frame issue.

00:20:19.000 You've got guys that are 6'1".

00:20:21.000 It's a different body style.

00:20:25.000 I train with a lot of them, high-level welterweights too.

00:20:28.000 It's a different body style.

00:20:30.000 I'm more suited for 155. Some of the things that I've got to play around with, I think will keep happening in the upcoming months.

00:20:39.000 I didn't project that I would fight again until July or so, so a lot of the things that I was doing diet-wise was kind of getting to that, and they approached me with this Barboza fight maybe like eight weeks earlier than that, so I just had to do what I had to do.

00:20:52.000 So, is it a matter of just you didn't taper off quick enough, or you just came in too heavy before you started?

00:20:58.000 You know, it was just the timing-wise.

00:21:00.000 You missed it by one pound?

00:21:01.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:21:02.000 It's something on that timing that I've really got to figure out, and that was the biggest problem with the Tony Ferguson fight.

00:21:08.000 You know, I can break it down for you.

00:21:10.000 So, usually, you know, I'm normally about 185. Through six weeks of diet, I can usually diet down to about 76, 77. That's where I'm optimal.

00:21:20.000 And then from there, I start the water cut.

00:21:22.000 So the week of the fight, the Tuesday, I'm 76. I save that all the way until I overload my body with water and flush out some of the sodium and the carbs and all that.

00:21:34.000 I save the rest of that up until the day before, and I try and cut as much as I can as...

00:21:41.000 Because I want to spend as little time dehydrated, that dehydrated as possible.

00:21:46.000 And I think that's some of the problem with having these early morning weigh-ins is the timing issue of it.

00:21:51.000 Because you wake up and then you have to start from the time you wake up rather than if it's at 4 o'clock in the afternoon like it used to be, you'd be able to do it all throughout the day.

00:22:00.000 Yeah, I can cut more reasonably through the morning.

00:22:04.000 So you feel like if you had more time, you would have been able to make it?

00:22:07.000 Oh, yeah, absolutely.

00:22:08.000 100%.

00:22:08.000 So it's just a time thing.

00:22:10.000 See, I got confused.

00:22:11.000 When they were doing this early morning weigh-ins, I thought you had, like, from 8 a.m.

00:22:15.000 to 4 o'clock to make it.

00:22:16.000 That's what I thought.

00:22:17.000 I thought if you weigh in early, go ahead, weigh in early.

00:22:20.000 But they gave you the time.

00:22:21.000 Yeah, I mean, I'm not really...

00:22:24.000 I don't really know the solution either.

00:22:26.000 You know, I don't think nobody really knows the solution to that problem, the time frame.

00:22:30.000 Because you are seeing a lot of guys miss weight because of that.

00:22:33.000 And I think that's one of the biggest problems.

00:22:35.000 Not only that, but guys are going to sleep completely dehydrated and sleeping through the night 20 pounds dehydrated.

00:22:41.000 That's a lot of water coming from your blood.

00:22:43.000 Your blood gets thicker.

00:22:44.000 Your heart rate slows down when you sleep.

00:22:46.000 I mean, you know, I try my best not to spend as much time dehydrated as possible.

00:22:51.000 So it's just a timing issue on that last one especially.

00:22:53.000 When you see guys like Dos Anjos that just can't do it anymore, and he goes up to 70 and he looks better than ever, what do you think about that?

00:23:01.000 It's always an option for me.

00:23:03.000 It would be an option now.

00:23:04.000 I would entertain the right fight at it, for sure. 0.95

00:23:07.000 It's just right now, at the state of it, they're doing this bullshit interim title, and Tyron's sitting right there.

00:23:13.000 It's not a lot of movement at the top right now.

00:23:16.000 So 155, just more fights interest me.

00:23:18.000 It's bigger challenges.

00:23:19.000 I think the guys are honestly better at 155, 170, maybe in the future, but it's got to be the right type of fight or something.

00:23:26.000 Yeah, well, there's so many good fighters now.

00:23:28.000 I mean, you go all across the board.

00:23:31.000 I mean, pretty much every weight class is strong now.

00:23:33.000 But yeah, I agree.

00:23:33.000 I think 55 is probably the strongest weight class right now.

00:23:36.000 Yeah, and it's so strong that you can make a 165 pound.

00:23:39.000 I mean, I really don't see what the holdup is on it.

00:23:42.000 Do a 65, do a 75. I agree.

00:23:45.000 Because we have so many guys that can bounce between those.

00:23:48.000 And you'll have a whole new top 15, a whole new champion, and they'll be just as strong as any of the two weight classes next to it.

00:23:54.000 I couldn't agree more.

00:23:55.000 I think it's very important that we spread it out better.

00:23:58.000 I think 10 pounds is reasonable.

00:24:01.000 You know, I mean, the way boxing has it, they just, you know, they have a 54, and then they have a 60. That seems a little ridiculous.

00:24:07.000 47, and then they have a 54. I think you'd be better off with 10. Just straight up 10 pounds, that's reasonable. 0.58

00:24:13.000 But when you go from like 85 to 205, that shit's crazy. 0.99

00:24:16.000 Some big boys. 0.99

00:24:17.000 That's a big gap.

00:24:20.000 Even 55 to 70, because most guys, like a normal size guy is about my size, 185, 190 pounds.

00:24:28.000 That puts you in that middle.

00:24:30.000 You got guys like me with a lot of muscle where I'm not going to lose a lot of fat in between.

00:24:35.000 Even Even for this one, I was 177, but I was 4.5% body fat.

00:24:39.000 You know, I couldn't really lean.

00:24:41.000 You can't get too much more lean than that.

00:24:44.000 You were 4.5% body fat when you weighed in?

00:24:47.000 Yeah, before.

00:24:48.000 Well, I was 4.5% maybe two weeks before the fight, actually.

00:24:50.000 But are you getting calipers?

00:24:52.000 How are they testing them?

00:24:54.000 Are they dunking you in the water?

00:24:55.000 No, over at the PI. They have special scales.

00:24:58.000 Oh, that body thing?

00:24:59.000 Yeah.

00:24:59.000 So those scales aren't that good.

00:25:01.000 Here's the thing about those scales.

00:25:03.000 Those scales, when you hold on to those things, some of them are okay, but the best way, they say, is submerging you.

00:25:09.000 There's a submerged one, and there's another one that uses some sort of electricity thing, like you lie in a bed.

00:25:16.000 I think the Performance Institute has that, too. 0.99

00:25:18.000 They're explaining that shit to me. 0.99

00:25:20.000 Yeah, yeah, the full scanner. 1.00

00:25:22.000 Yeah, I've done that a few times.

00:25:24.000 But it's much quicker, much easier just to get on the scale.

00:25:27.000 It just sounds real low.

00:25:28.000 4.5% sounds usually low.

00:25:29.000 It does, but as long as it's still the same measurement, you know what I'm saying, as my last fight.

00:25:36.000 For the Tony fight, I was 5.5% on those measurements.

00:25:39.000 So as long as it's with the same calipers or whatever the fuck they're using, you know that you're basically on points.

00:25:44.000 Yeah, exactly. 0.95

00:25:45.000 I can compare it at least.

00:25:47.000 But again, I can't get that much leaner.

00:25:49.000 It's mostly just going to come out water.

00:25:51.000 If they add a 65, then I've got 10 more pounds of water that I don't have to cut out. 0.99

00:25:56.000 It would be fucking ridiculous. 0.95

00:25:57.000 How frustrating was it for you going into that Tony Ferguson fight with that staph infection? 0.99

00:26:01.000 Because that was a serious fight.

00:26:03.000 I didn't notice it at the weigh-ins, but then the moment you walked into the cage, it was funny, man, because they were telling DC, don't talk about it.

00:26:11.000 Because I was going, that's staff. 0.99

00:26:12.000 That is fucking staff. 0.99

00:26:13.000 And then they said to DC, don't talk about it. 1.00

00:26:16.000 He goes, yup, that looks like staff to me.

00:26:18.000 He just ignored him. 1.00

00:26:19.000 He's like, fuck you. 1.00

00:26:20.000 I'm telling you, that's staff, man. 1.00

00:26:22.000 I don't know why they didn't want anybody bringing it up.

00:26:24.000 Because it's an important point.

00:26:26.000 It's an unfortunate thing that happens during training sometimes.

00:26:31.000 Yeah, I kind of noticed it on that Sunday.

00:26:33.000 And then Tuesday we do the check-ins and everything.

00:26:35.000 And I had the girl, I'm like, can you put some makeup on it?

00:26:39.000 Because I didn't want...

00:26:40.000 You know, nobody to find out.

00:26:42.000 And even Tony, you know, if he would have saw it, he would have knew.

00:26:45.000 He knew I'd compromise, all that.

00:26:47.000 But yeah, it frustrated things.

00:26:49.000 It made things a lot more complicated.

00:26:51.000 It put me...

00:26:52.000 It made the weight cut terrible.

00:26:56.000 Just to go back to it, I mean, I'm cutting from 76 to 50. I have to be 55 for that fight.

00:27:02.000 And I try my best to skim it down in about 12 hours.

00:27:05.000 So I woke up at 5 a.m.

00:27:08.000 at about 162. And weigh-ins are between 9 and 11. And from 5 a.m.

00:27:15.000 till 8 a.m., I had only cut one pound.

00:27:19.000 Compared to in other cuts that have gone really well, I would normally cut about four or five pounds at that time.

00:27:25.000 But because I just was feeling good and I wasn't worried about it, and I was using the same temperature of water, I was using the same everything, but the staff made my body hold on to the water.

00:27:37.000 So when I went down and checked and saw that I was still like five pounds up with like two hours to go, they started like throwing boiling hot water on me to get, you know, Yeah, to get me sweating to get it off.

00:27:49.000 It was brutal.

00:27:50.000 For someone who doesn't, never experienced staph, explain what it does to your body.

00:27:57.000 How it makes you feel.

00:27:59.000 The next day, I just...

00:28:01.000 I felt so tired.

00:28:02.000 I never felt as tired in my life.

00:28:05.000 And it felt...

00:28:06.000 I felt so tired to the point where I tried to counteract it by getting myself as pumped as I can.

00:28:12.000 And, you know, you normally get there two hours before the fight.

00:28:16.000 When I walked into the arena that night, two hours before, I was in a sweat.

00:28:20.000 You know, my body was like full of adrenaline.

00:28:22.000 So you weren't taking any medication?

00:28:23.000 You weren't going on antibiotics?

00:28:25.000 You figured...

00:28:25.000 Did you have to decide whether you should take antibiotics, and then you know that compromises your endurance for sure, or just let your body fight it off?

00:28:33.000 I had it before, so I had been on the antibiotics, and they just make me feel terrible.

00:28:38.000 If you've ever been through it, I mean, it's a terrible feeling.

00:28:41.000 So I just was like, you know what, I think I can just push through it. 0.99

00:28:45.000 And I'm young, and I was like, you know what, fuck it, let's just go. 0.98

00:28:48.000 Did you try any natural remedies, like tea tree oil or anything like that? 0.99

00:28:54.000 It wasn't a whole lot I could take because I also got to cut the weight still.

00:28:58.000 There's some topical stuff.

00:29:00.000 One of the things they say that works really well topical, believe it or not, is minced garlic.

00:29:06.000 Garlic apparently has a tremendous effect on staph infections.

00:29:10.000 I was swallowing whole cloves of ginger.

00:29:12.000 I would take ginger, I would chop it up, and I would swallow it to see if that would do something.

00:29:18.000 It's hard.

00:29:18.000 Yeah, it's hard.

00:29:19.000 Garlic has some real strong antibacterial properties.

00:29:23.000 And one of the people that have been on the podcast many times, Dr. Rhonda Patrick, said she had dealt with some persistent staph infection.

00:29:30.000 And she had like a hole in her skin. 0.99

00:29:32.000 And what she did was she took garlic and packed it into that hole and fucking killed it. 1.00

00:29:38.000 I mean, genius. 0.99

00:29:39.000 I wish I would have known that before.

00:29:41.000 I just kind of just fought through it. 1.00

00:29:42.000 I was like, fuck it. 1.00

00:29:44.000 I'm just going. 1.00

00:29:45.000 Defense Soap makes some really good stuff for that, too.

00:29:47.000 They make these essential oils.

00:29:49.000 It's tea tree oil and eucalyptus oil.

00:29:51.000 And you put it on like right where they have an injury.

00:29:54.000 Where were you in October?

00:29:55.000 I would've been there for you, brother.

00:29:57.000 I would've been there for you.

00:29:58.000 Anybody else that has that staph, anytime you have any sort of ringworm or staph or anything, there's some natural stuff, not like some bullshit homeopathic nonsense, but some actual, real, natural stuff that can help you.

00:30:11.000 And Defense Soap specializes in that because Guy Sacco, the guy who owns the company, he coaches wrestling and deals with kids that always have ringworm and staph infections.

00:30:22.000 So he came out with these soaps, these natural soaps.

00:30:25.000 That are just designed for grapplers.

00:30:27.000 That's why it's called defense soap. 0.99

00:30:28.000 And then I'll have them send you some.

00:30:30.000 And then the essential oils and balms and stuff like ointments for scratches and shit like that so they don't get infected.

00:30:37.000 That's, you know, gyms, you're always getting infected. 0.91

00:30:40.000 Yeah, and that was one of the biggest focuses of this camp.

00:30:43.000 It's like, make sure I stay healthy.

00:30:44.000 Because if you don't have your health, you don't have nothing.

00:30:46.000 And that was what it was at that Tony fight.

00:30:48.000 And it's just...

00:30:51.000 It was such a big event, and it was my first real big event, too, that I just wanted it all just to go right in and go over.

00:30:59.000 But it ended up being just a lot on my body.

00:31:02.000 The staff, originally, I think it came from mental stress.

00:31:07.000 It was so many stresses going on.

00:31:10.000 It's a lot of pressure.

00:31:11.000 Yeah, and you look at the three biggest stressors.

00:31:14.000 I was going through a divorce, and I had just moved into a house.

00:31:17.000 You look at those in a normal day-to-day Life.

00:31:20.000 Those are the two biggest stressors you can have.

00:31:23.000 Then to add on fighting for a world title in six weeks. 0.98

00:31:27.000 So I'm just like, let's fucking go. 0.95

00:31:29.000 I wasn't expecting to... 0.96

00:31:31.000 I was thinking maybe they was going to give me Tony, but maybe in December in Detroit or something like that.

00:31:37.000 But it was like six weeks. 0.99

00:31:38.000 I was like, all right, well, fuck. 1.00

00:31:39.000 Let's do it. 1.00

00:31:40.000 That's right.

00:31:40.000 They were thinking about doing you in Detroit, right?

00:31:42.000 That was the talk.

00:31:44.000 And you were requesting a big fight in Detroit.

00:31:46.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:31:47.000 That's where every year I kind of plan out my year and I got my vision in my head.

00:31:54.000 I got to call them audibles in there.

00:31:55.000 That was one of them.

00:31:56.000 But yeah, it ended up putting a little bit too much stress on me all at once and I took on a lot for that one.

00:32:02.000 You did, but I'll tell you what, man. 0.94

00:32:04.000 When you took him down and mounted him in the first round, I was like, holy shit, because I know how good Tony is on the ground. 0.91

00:32:10.000 You know, it's interesting because you look at someone when they fight, and this is one of the things that I've been saying about Khabib, because it's so hard, because he's doing what people do, right? 0.96

00:32:20.000 He's taking people down, he's mounting them, grounding them, pounding them. 0.99

00:32:23.000 But he's doing it to people that other people can't do it to, and he's doing it in a way that it's like, wow, how good is this motherfucker? 1.00

00:32:30.000 Like, when he was mauling Michael Johnson, I was like, how fucking good is he? 1.00

00:32:34.000 Because this is crazy. 0.97

00:32:35.000 Like, he's, in that moment, several levels better than anybody Michael had fought before on the ground.

00:32:42.000 And when I'm seeing you, first of all, see the Chiesa fight. 0.99

00:32:46.000 And right to this day, I'm like, Jesus fucking Christ, just let him go out. 0.99

00:32:50.000 Let him go out, and we would have known. 0.99

00:32:52.000 That minor controversy from that moment, you got a fully locked in, rear naked choke, and he's still conscious.

00:32:59.000 Let him go out.

00:33:00.000 If he doesn't want to tap, let him go out.

00:33:02.000 He was going lit.

00:33:04.000 Maybe, but let him go out.

00:33:06.000 But, you know, the defense isn't, you can't, you can't.

00:33:09.000 Some guys can.

00:33:10.000 I know what you're saying, but I know Hickson can.

00:33:12.000 Yeah, but the thing is, the ref, you can't put that on the ref, you know?

00:33:16.000 It's defend yourself intelligently.

00:33:18.000 Was that Mario?

00:33:19.000 Yeah, it was Mario.

00:33:20.000 But it's defend yourself intelligently at all times.

00:33:28.000 You can't say I'm blocking punches with my face until the guy gets tired.

00:33:32.000 You can't say I'm just going to try and sleep in this choke until the guy gets tired of me.

00:33:37.000 What he said was he was trying to concentrate on his neck and just completely tense up his neck and try to push blood through.

00:33:42.000 I've seen guys do that.

00:33:43.000 I feel you, but...

00:33:45.000 But only to a point.

00:33:46.000 Only to a point, right?

00:33:48.000 And then you go to sleep.

00:33:49.000 Let him go to sleep.

00:33:50.000 Yeah, I'm with you.

00:33:51.000 He could have let him go to sleep.

00:33:52.000 But I think as soon as Mario saw that his hands went from fighting the hands to doing this, Mario stopped it.

00:34:00.000 And I thought it was a good stoppage.

00:34:02.000 It's not a bad stoppage.

00:34:03.000 It's not a bad stoppage, but it was controversial.

00:34:05.000 You can call it odd things.

00:34:07.000 Controversial is always good.

00:34:08.000 I said that right after.

00:34:09.000 Keep it up.

00:34:10.000 Keep it going.

00:34:11.000 I love it.

00:34:11.000 Good for you.

00:34:12.000 It got you to talk about it.

00:34:14.000 Everybody would talk about it.

00:34:15.000 Yeah, I know.

00:34:16.000 Because it's an undercard fight, but it became bigger even than a lot of the other fights on the card because of that.

00:34:21.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:34:22.000 No, we headlined that event.

00:34:24.000 It wasn't?

00:34:25.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:34:26.000 I thought that was on a pay-per-view.

00:34:28.000 That's right.

00:34:28.000 You're right.

00:34:29.000 I'm sorry.

00:34:30.000 He's doing my thing out there with that one.

00:34:32.000 But that fight was really like a top contender fight.

00:34:36.000 I mean, Chiesa had been on a roll. 0.96

00:34:38.000 He's very strong on the ground, which is one of the reasons why it was so impressive that you took his back and choked him like that.

00:34:43.000 Yeah, I mean, I think I have a different style than a lot of people can see.

00:34:48.000 You know, you go back to Khabib, and his style is good.

00:34:52.000 It's obviously very good, but I can see a lot of holes in it.

00:34:55.000 And I saw those holes many years ago.

00:34:57.000 I've been calling him Khabib for years.

00:34:58.000 I've been wanting to fight him just because people got those questions.

00:35:02.000 I got those questions, too. 1.00

00:35:03.000 So I'm like, let's see what this motherfucker got. 1.00

00:35:06.000 Because I see it. 1.00

00:35:06.000 I see them holes. 1.00

00:35:07.000 You know, I don't really focus on too much of the good.

00:35:10.000 I'm like...

00:35:10.000 What holes?

00:35:12.000 That boy number.

00:35:13.000 I'm telling you, Joe.

00:35:15.000 What are the holes?

00:35:15.000 What do you see?

00:35:16.000 You know, even on a lot of his takedowns, he misses a lot of them.

00:35:20.000 You know, he's very square.

00:35:22.000 He kind of just bum rushes.

00:35:24.000 You know, people were talking about the Barboza fight before, and they're like, are you looking at that fighter and you're going to try and build off that one?

00:35:29.000 I'm like...

00:35:30.000 Yeah, I mean, he did okay.

00:35:32.000 The fight was good.

00:35:33.000 He beat the hell out of Barboza, but I saw the holes in it.

00:35:36.000 You know, he's just running square forward at him.

00:35:38.000 You know, he got hit with a lot of shots.

00:35:40.000 It's terrifying for people on the outside watching him because the way he just came forward on Barboza was like he was indestructible.

00:35:48.000 It didn't matter.

00:35:49.000 I'm just going to get you.

00:35:50.000 It's just a matter of time.

00:35:51.000 Keep throwing your kicks. 0.75

00:35:52.000 I'm going to get you. 0.99

00:35:53.000 Ooh, I got you.

00:35:54.000 You got those guys, but the body gives up.

00:35:56.000 You know, Justin Gaethje is the same way.

00:35:57.000 The body will give up.

00:35:59.000 You can't keep putting your body on the line like that.

00:36:02.000 I mean, if he wants to run at me square like that, I'm getting paid.

00:36:09.000 I'm getting paid.

00:36:10.000 I'm sorry.

00:36:10.000 I love I love watching him fight, but part of me is like, Jesus, man.

00:36:15.000 If he mixed what he can do, because he's one of the very best at leg kicks and close, that dude would be in the middle of a combination, like chest to chest with you, and then somehow or another, he whips a leg kick straight down on your leg.

00:36:28.000 I mean, he's nasty with that.

00:36:29.000 He's got a couple things that he does real good.

00:36:32.000 I've been studying Genji too.

00:36:34.000 He's just hard-headed. 1.00

00:36:35.000 He don't give a fuck. 1.00

00:36:38.000 Yeah, he'll just take it and just walk right into it. 0.99

00:36:40.000 But it seems like when you look at all the skills that he has, that would be better represented with some movement and some footwork and some other things.

00:36:49.000 Yeah, especially with a guy like Trevor Whitman in his corner.

00:36:52.000 You know, Trevor's a great, great coach.

00:36:54.000 Look what he did to Rose.

00:36:55.000 I mean, yeah.

00:36:57.000 I think their styles are very opposite.

00:37:01.000 You know, he should probably listen to them a little bit more.

00:37:03.000 It's even one of the things with me and Robert Follis.

00:37:05.000 You know, I had been with Robert.

00:37:07.000 Robert was pretty much the only reason why I moved to Vegas.

00:37:12.000 Because he...

00:37:14.000 There's a weird bond between a fighter and a coach.

00:37:18.000 And he just got me more than any other coach before or since Will.

00:37:24.000 We were very different, but he just understood me as an athlete a little bit more.

00:37:29.000 And even some of the things that he would tell me, I wouldn't listen to it.

00:37:33.000 He'd be like...

00:37:34.000 He tried to tell me to stay smart and not brawl. 1.00

00:37:38.000 At the end of the day, Joe, I'm like, fuck this. 1.00

00:37:42.000 I'm going to fight. 1.00

00:37:43.000 I'm going to bite down on my mouthpiece. 0.99

00:37:45.000 He tried to get me to be smarter.

00:37:47.000 And just some of the things that he would say to me resonated with me more than anybody else.

00:37:54.000 So...

00:37:55.000 I think now that he's gone, I've put what he said, it's still in my head, and I try and follow it even more now.

00:38:05.000 And I wish somebody like Gagey wouldn't listen to Trevor.

00:38:09.000 Because you know Whitman is telling him what to do, the right things to do.

00:38:13.000 He should probably listen to him.

00:38:14.000 Well, I think Trevor just tries to compliment your style, and Gagey's style is just savage.

00:38:19.000 He's just...

00:38:20.000 We're going to war. 0.85

00:38:21.000 We're going to war. 0.85

00:38:22.000 Every time we're going to war.

00:38:24.000 I get it.

00:38:27.000 Fun to watch.

00:38:29.000 I think you learn from somebody else.

00:38:31.000 I think everybody has what they do.

00:38:34.000 Like I said, I try and create a strong team around me where everybody has what they do, and I'm just going to try and listen to them.

00:38:43.000 Even more so now.

00:38:44.000 Now that I understand that a little bit more as I'm getting older and, you know, going through life, too, with it, like I said, with Rob.

00:38:51.000 You know, one of the reporters there, he asked me, he was like, we seen you in there talking, and they thought I was talking to Barboza, but I was really just talking to myself.

00:39:00.000 Like, I was saying things that he would say or...

00:39:04.000 That Robert would say.

00:39:05.000 Yeah, that Robert would say.

00:39:06.000 And I'm saying them to myself.

00:39:08.000 And I guess my mouth was moving.

00:39:10.000 I don't really know.

00:39:11.000 I thought it was in my head the whole time.

00:39:12.000 But I guess some of the reporters could see it.

00:39:15.000 But I really tried to make that a focus.

00:39:18.000 That's interesting.

00:39:18.000 So do you do that in sparring too?

00:39:22.000 I don't know.

00:39:23.000 I usually try and...

00:39:24.000 Did you realize you were doing it until they brought it up?

00:39:26.000 I didn't realize.

00:39:27.000 No, because when he asked me that, it kind of caught me off guard.

00:39:30.000 Because I remember in the fight, I'm very cerebral.

00:39:32.000 I remember everything about it.

00:39:36.000 But I remember I was going to say something to Barboza, too. 0.99

00:39:39.000 You know, I'm talking my shit. 0.99

00:39:40.000 I do it in fights from time to time. 0.99

00:39:42.000 But I didn't because he was a nice guy.

00:39:44.000 I didn't realize that I was talking to myself, too.

00:39:46.000 In it, even.

00:39:48.000 So you were just kind of going through the things that you wanted to focus on in the fight while it was happening?

00:39:53.000 Do you remember what you were saying?

00:39:54.000 Even the kick, the kick that he landed, if you see a microsecond before that, I was nodding my head because I took my mind off him for a split second.

00:40:05.000 I saw the knockout there, I seen him dip to his left, and I'm like, next time he dips, I'm about to get it.

00:40:10.000 So I started to talk.

00:40:13.000 And I was like, I got this. 1.00

00:40:15.000 And I took my mind off of him and he hit me with that fucking spin kick. 0.99

00:40:19.000 But what it should have said was, stay sharp. 0.99

00:40:23.000 Stay focused.

00:40:24.000 That's what I was saying in the fourth and the fifth round after that kick landed.

00:40:27.000 I was like, stay sharp, stay focused.

00:40:28.000 I'm just saying that to myself because that's what Rob would tell me.

00:40:32.000 He wouldn't tell me to look for the knockout.

00:40:34.000 What was the thought process when you're going to face a guy like Barboza that's such a dangerous kicker?

00:40:39.000 Was it a lot of feints plus pressure?

00:40:41.000 What was the thought process about getting close to him?

00:40:44.000 With a guy like Barboza, he throws everything so hard and so explosive.

00:40:48.000 I knew I was going to have to eat some of that and just keep pushing forward and just not take my eyes off of him.

00:40:53.000 Even when I got wobbled and I dropped, I just tried to not take my eyes off of him.

00:40:57.000 With a guy like that that's such a great athlete, which is what I consider Barboza as.

00:41:05.000 Rob had these three things.

00:41:06.000 He put everybody in an athlete, a competitor, or a fighter category.

00:41:09.000 And Barboza was like the epitome of an athlete.

00:41:13.000 But with that, you can't show him that he's doing good.

00:41:17.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:41:19.000 Every time he was throwing, I'm just like walking it off. 1.00

00:41:22.000 That fucking switch kick is ridiculous. 1.00

00:41:24.000 He's got the most ridiculous switch kick in the game. 1.00

00:41:26.000 It's so fast. 0.63

00:41:29.000 Mark Delagrate, who's seen some of the best of the best fight in Thailand, in real, you know, in life, like right there, in person, he said, I've never seen a guy with a faster switch kick.

00:41:39.000 He goes, even the top, the most elite of the Thais, he goes, that's the fastest switch kick I've ever seen. 0.98

00:41:44.000 Even when he was dead tired, I mean, I beat the hell out of him.

00:41:47.000 And he was still throwing it.

00:41:48.000 I was like, how is this even...

00:41:51.000 Even in the third and fourth round.

00:41:53.000 And some of it, I'm kind of like looking while I'm in there.

00:41:56.000 I'm like, what is he doing that can make him do that?

00:41:59.000 You know, I try and steal a little bit from every guy that I fight, especially. 0.95

00:42:04.000 And I'm like, what is he doing that's allowing him to be that goddamn fast with it? 0.88

00:42:09.000 But, you know, I prepare right. 0.94

00:42:11.000 I prepare with a lot of high-level kickboxers that, you know, they got that style of kicking.

00:42:14.000 They just kick it and block off if you let them.

00:42:17.000 Yeah, you're going to get something from that, right?

00:42:19.000 DC always calls it the rub.

00:42:21.000 You fight someone who's real good, you get that rub from him, you just realize now, oh, those kicks can come at you that fast.

00:42:27.000 Yeah, and you get that in a lot of different ways.

00:42:30.000 Like with Tony, Tony did a lot of things in there that I didn't expect and I didn't really plan for.

00:42:39.000 There's only so much planning that you can do until you get in there and you need that experience to rely back on.

00:42:44.000 And I feel like that's what I'm building up at a young age.

00:42:47.000 It's possible if you get a rematch with Tony.

00:42:50.000 With Tony now coming off of that very disappointing fall, which is crazy.

00:42:57.000 I feel bad for the dude.

00:42:58.000 I need to say something, too.

00:42:59.000 This is very important.

00:43:00.000 I actually have pictures, too.

00:43:01.000 I'm going to send them to you right now, Jamie, so we can put it online.

00:43:05.000 Because everybody was repeating the thought that he had worn sunglasses.

00:43:14.000 And that's why he fell down.

00:43:16.000 That he was wearing sunglasses inside.

00:43:18.000 He misspoke.

00:43:21.000 He misspoke.

00:43:22.000 And he said it to, I think he said, my prescription sunglasses to Ariel Helwani.

00:43:28.000 I think that's what they were saying.

00:43:30.000 Oh, the square ones that he wears.

00:43:31.000 Yeah.

00:43:32.000 I'll send it.

00:43:33.000 I'm going to send it to Jamie right now.

00:43:34.000 But it wasn't.

00:43:35.000 But he was probably wearing sunglasses.

00:43:37.000 No, he wasn't.

00:43:38.000 I have the photos. 0.99

00:43:41.000 He's silly. 0.98

00:43:42.000 I'll find it. 1.00

00:43:43.000 God damn it. 0.99

00:43:43.000 Tony loves those songs. 0.99

00:43:45.000 I don't know.

00:43:45.000 I know he does love the...

00:43:46.000 Okay, I know where it is.

00:43:48.000 He does love those sunglasses.

00:43:50.000 Tony's a smart guy.

00:43:51.000 I don't hold that against him.

00:43:53.000 He was probably something that was already injured in his leg.

00:43:57.000 And I feel bad for the guy.

00:43:58.000 I really do.

00:43:59.000 I don't think he'll ever be the same coming back off that one.

00:44:02.000 That's a big...

00:44:03.000 I hear detached it.

00:44:05.000 Detached it from the bone.

00:44:07.000 I mean, that's huge.

00:44:08.000 Especially at 34 to try and come back off that. 0.64

00:44:11.000 And it kind of sucks for me too.

00:44:13.000 I think I fought the best Tony Ferguson that you're going to see...

00:44:18.000 Period, really.

00:44:19.000 You think so?

00:44:19.000 Because it was before that injury?

00:44:21.000 Yeah, I don't think he's going to be the same again after it.

00:44:23.000 And he'll come back and he'll still beat great guys.

00:44:25.000 He's still going to do very good, but I don't think it'll be the same. 0.99

00:44:31.000 Damn it. 0.97

00:44:32.000 I got this photo in here somewhere. 0.99

00:44:33.000 I'm gonna find it.

00:44:34.000 I can't find it.

00:44:36.000 I'll send it to you later.

00:44:37.000 But in the photo, he's wearing glasses.

00:44:39.000 He's not wearing prescription sunglasses.

00:44:42.000 He said...

00:44:43.000 He misspoke and said prescription sunglasses.

00:44:46.000 That's why Dana told me...

00:44:48.000 Dana's ruthless.

00:44:49.000 Dana goes, everybody who wears sunglasses inside should have that happen to them.

00:44:56.000 This is after this huge fight fell apart, is what David said.

00:44:59.000 Yeah, I mean, he's probably about right, too, to be honest.

00:45:01.000 He's funny, man.

00:45:02.000 Yeah, but he wasn't wearing sunglasses.

00:45:07.000 I just want to clear it up for Tony.

00:45:08.000 Like I said, I feel bad for him.

00:45:10.000 I really do.

00:45:12.000 The good news is you can come back from that injury.

00:45:14.000 That's an injury you can come back from.

00:45:15.000 At 34, especially with the way he trains.

00:45:17.000 I mean, I think the body can come back.

00:45:19.000 It's just, I don't know if his mind will let him be as free.

00:45:23.000 That was one of Tony's biggest assets to the style. 0.98

00:45:26.000 I mean, he just does whatever the fuck he wants, you know? 0.98

00:45:29.000 And now, when he gets back in there, is he going to be thinking about his knee? 0.98

00:45:32.000 Even if that's in the back of your mind, it's still limited on that type of style that he likes to fight. 0.99

00:45:38.000 Maybe you're just fucking with his head right now. 1.00

00:45:41.000 LAUGHTER Maybe plant some seeds, Kevin Lee. 1.00

00:45:46.000 You never know.

00:45:47.000 There's some money to be made, Joe.

00:45:48.000 I gotta get it, boy.

00:45:50.000 I understand.

00:45:51.000 Well, he will be out for quite a while.

00:45:53.000 I would imagine he won't be able to even really train hard for six months.

00:45:57.000 Yeah, at least.

00:45:57.000 He's at least a year out.

00:46:01.000 When I look at that... 0.96

00:46:03.000 And I see that fight and just, you know, how much different shit could be now, you know, had I went into that fight healthy, especially. 0.91

00:46:11.000 I think the entire division would look different. 0.88

00:46:13.000 But I'm going to correct all that in a little bit.

00:46:15.000 Let me get my hands on Khabib first. 0.99

00:46:17.000 Well, it's interesting.

00:46:18.000 You're in the running now, for sure.

00:46:20.000 And before this fight, I think you were a slight underdog in the Barboza fight.

00:46:25.000 Yeah, probably.

00:46:26.000 But after that domination, I mean, you for sure moved up and...

00:46:31.000 You're in the running now, 100%.

00:46:32.000 So you got Poirier, who just looked real good against Gagey and won that fight after getting his legs chewed up.

00:46:39.000 But Poirier, of course, was knocked out by Michael Johnson.

00:46:43.000 And then you've got you coming off the loss to Tony.

00:46:48.000 Storm the gates with this fight.

00:46:50.000 And then you've got Eddie Alvarez who looked great against Justin Gagey.

00:46:53.000 It's very hot.

00:46:55.000 And then Conor is going to jail.

00:46:57.000 Who knows what's happening?

00:46:58.000 I think that's the X factor is what's happening with Conor.

00:47:01.000 I mean, Dustin is out there.

00:47:03.000 But I just don't see no...

00:47:06.000 I'm speaking as if from a fan.

00:47:08.000 I just don't see no upsides to that.

00:47:13.000 To you fighting him?

00:47:14.000 No, no.

00:47:14.000 To him and Khabib.

00:47:16.000 I mean, they can make it happen.

00:47:17.000 And Khabib will go out there and he'll smoke them. 0.93

00:47:19.000 I mean, that should be real here.

00:47:21.000 But I just don't see many fans getting behind that just from what does Dustin bring to the table that Khabib ain't already seen.

00:47:28.000 This is the big fight right now.

00:47:30.000 I mean, just being completely honest.

00:47:31.000 The big fight right now is Khabib and Conor in Russia.

00:47:34.000 That's the big fight.

00:47:35.000 That's the big fight.

00:47:36.000 Or even Madison Square Garden.

00:47:37.000 I mean, they can make that happen. 0.99

00:47:39.000 I don't think New York is ever letting that motherfucker fight there again. 1.00

00:47:42.000 I just don't think they're going to do that. 1.00

00:47:44.000 They don't play games, man.

00:47:45.000 That athletic commission is a different commission.

00:47:47.000 And they're new to MMA. And that was embarrassing for them.

00:47:50.000 I mean, him throwing the fucking dolly. 0.99

00:47:52.000 And the fact that they let them get in there with all his boys. 0.99

00:47:54.000 And the whole thing was just so thuggish.

00:47:56.000 And didn't the thing in Bellator happen in...

00:47:58.000 Was that in New York or New Jersey?

00:48:00.000 What thing happened in Bellator?

00:48:02.000 Where he went over and slapped Goddard and all that.

00:48:05.000 Oh, was that Bellator? 0.99

00:48:06.000 Yeah, he called people bitches and hoes. 0.99

00:48:08.000 Where was that? 0.99

00:48:08.000 I want to say that was in Ireland or England. 0.99

00:48:11.000 Was it in Ireland?

00:48:12.000 I think it was in England.

00:48:13.000 I want to say it was in London.

00:48:15.000 Wasn't that the Bellator London card?

00:48:17.000 I don't know.

00:48:19.000 But that Goddard thing was crazy.

00:48:21.000 I felt like that happened on the East Coast, too.

00:48:23.000 But that was one.

00:48:25.000 Either way. 0.99

00:48:25.000 It's like he just keeps fucking up with this kind of stuff. 0.99

00:48:30.000 And, you know, no one's saying... 0.99

00:48:33.000 Get rid of him.

00:48:34.000 He's worth so much money.

00:48:35.000 It's really fascinating.

00:48:36.000 What I was saying is, imagine if Ray Borg and him switched sides.

00:48:40.000 If Ray Borg showed up with all his boys and was screaming and yelling and threw a dolly at the window.

00:48:46.000 It's done deal.

00:48:46.000 It's done deal forever.

00:48:47.000 Oh, it's done deal.

00:48:48.000 Oh, yeah.

00:48:48.000 Think about Paul Daly.

00:48:50.000 Paul Daly must be at home going, Mother!

00:48:54.000 Hey look, there's certain things that we just can't do.

00:49:01.000 Until you get to that stratosphere, that Conor McGregor, there's so much money to be made.

00:49:09.000 That's the problem.

00:49:10.000 The rules get bent.

00:49:12.000 All Paul Daly did was throw a punch at Josh Koscheck.

00:49:17.000 It didn't even connect.

00:49:18.000 That could have been sorted out.

00:49:20.000 Yeah, and you even had guys like Will Brooks kind of got the hammer put down on him, didn't he?

00:49:25.000 After he got knocked out and then pushed the ref. 0.61

00:49:29.000 I think, was that Will Brooks?

00:49:30.000 Was that Will?

00:49:30.000 I'm sorry, I don't know.

00:49:32.000 I don't know.

00:49:33.000 You're looking at me funny.

00:49:33.000 I don't know.

00:49:34.000 Was it Will?

00:49:35.000 I'm thinking you're right.

00:49:36.000 It was somebody, you know, he got knocked out and then pushed the ref right after.

00:49:39.000 And it's like, they put a lot on...

00:49:41.000 Oh, no, it wasn't Will Brooks.

00:49:42.000 I'm sorry.

00:49:42.000 It was...

00:49:43.000 God, 170 pounder.

00:49:47.000 Hmm.

00:49:47.000 I know who you're talking about.

00:49:49.000 Damn. 1.00

00:49:50.000 God damn it. 1.00

00:49:51.000 Who was that? 1.00

00:49:53.000 God, this is going to kill me.

00:49:55.000 Sorry.

00:49:56.000 We'll figure it out.

00:49:57.000 And they held him against him, and he was concussed.

00:50:01.000 You barely know where you were at.

00:50:02.000 Jason High.

00:50:03.000 Yeah, that's what it was.

00:50:05.000 A great fighter, too.

00:50:06.000 He's a very good fighter.

00:50:07.000 And what people don't understand is that once you get knocked out and then you come back, you really don't know what happened.

00:50:12.000 You're really out of it.

00:50:14.000 Who knocked him out?

00:50:15.000 Who stopped?

00:50:16.000 It was Dos Anjos, right?

00:50:17.000 Yeah, yeah, it was Dos Anjos.

00:50:18.000 That was Dos Anjos' welterweight debut, right?

00:50:21.000 No, it was at 55 still.

00:50:22.000 Yeah, 55 still, yeah.

00:50:24.000 But again, he was a great fighter.

00:50:25.000 I mean, it's just certain things that we just can't do, Joe.

00:50:30.000 Oh, we meaning people of color.

00:50:32.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:50:33.000 I mean, look, I don't want to say it that way.

00:50:35.000 Do you think that Floyd Mayweather can do it, though?

00:50:35.000 No, Floyd can do it.

00:50:36.000 I just think it's people with that...

00:50:38.000 He's...

00:50:39.000 There's a level to the game where you're so valuable that if Conor McGregor does a pay-per-view fight, especially if they do...

00:50:48.000 You heard all that crazy nonsense they were going to do with McGregor, like, no shoes, you can clinch, but no kicks, no takedowns, no...

00:50:55.000 If they ever did that...

00:50:57.000 They're just printing money.

00:50:58.000 They're printing money.

00:50:59.000 I mean, 100%.

00:51:00.000 It's so hard for them to not take that money.

00:51:03.000 And I don't hold that against them.

00:51:05.000 And I've always said that about the UFC. The UFC about the green.

00:51:07.000 And I understand that.

00:51:10.000 That's kind of where I'm coming from.

00:51:14.000 Consistency.

00:51:15.000 Yeah, well, I think you just have to realize as a black man in America, really, like, there's two ways to approach the situation.

00:51:23.000 You need to be the victim or you can just say it is what it is.

00:51:25.000 That's some circumstances. 0.93

00:51:26.000 You know, black people just don't support other black people the way the Irish support the Irish, the Russian support. 0.99

00:51:32.000 I mean, I'm just being real with you. 0.97

00:51:33.000 That's why.

00:51:34.000 But the reality is white people in America don't support white Americans the way the Irish support Connor.

00:51:39.000 Nobody does.

00:51:39.000 100%.

00:51:40.000 I mean, and it's an American thing.

00:51:41.000 I mean, for you.

00:51:42.000 Were you in Vegas when he was fighting Mayweather?

00:51:45.000 Did you see the people that were in Mandalay Bay, which wasn't even where the fight was taking place?

00:51:50.000 The entire place was flooded with people singing together.

00:51:53.000 When he fought Dustin Poirier at 178, they kept me up all...

00:51:57.000 I was on the undercard of that fight. 0.96

00:51:59.000 They kept me up all fucking night in the MGM. They were running up and down the halls of the MGM. Security couldn't stop them. 0.93

00:52:09.000 I mean, they're crazy. 0.99

00:52:10.000 They're crazy.

00:52:13.000 Obviously, he had great performances on top of it, but that definitely helps.

00:52:18.000 When your first fight in the UFC debut is in Boston, they're going crazy for you like that.

00:52:24.000 You just don't see that much.

00:52:26.000 And it's sad, really.

00:52:27.000 You talk about Floyd Mayweather.

00:52:29.000 Really, how Floyd got big like that is he had to go against the Mexicans and he had to get them to really hate him in order to get big.

00:52:36.000 Exactly.

00:52:36.000 But that's also his style.

00:52:38.000 Whereas Conor's style is very different because he knocks guys dead.

00:52:41.000 It's a different style.

00:52:42.000 You know, like, remember when Tyson was in his prime?

00:52:44.000 You knew no one was gonna beat him.

00:52:46.000 It was just, you were waiting to see the executions.

00:52:49.000 Well, you were just a little boy at the time.

00:52:50.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:52:51.000 You probably weren't even born.

00:52:53.000 My pops was a huge Mike Tyson fan.

00:52:54.000 What time were you born?

00:52:55.000 92. Yeah, see?

00:52:56.000 Jesus Christ, you missed everything.

00:52:58.000 Well, my pops is a huge Mike Tyson fan.

00:53:00.000 I'm a huge boxing fan, so, you know, I go back and I'm...

00:53:02.000 You were born in 92?

00:53:03.000 That's hilarious.

00:53:04.000 Huge boxing fan.

00:53:05.000 Yeah, just as old as the UFC, actually, so...

00:53:07.000 That's crazy, right?

00:53:08.000 Pretty much, right?

00:53:09.000 It was a year after you were born.

00:53:10.000 It started.

00:53:11.000 Yeah, man, but the Tyson days, he was the biggest paper you draw, but it was really just you were watching an execution.

00:53:18.000 And there was also, like, people were thinking, like, man, is this going to be worth it?

00:53:21.000 How long is this one going to last?

00:53:22.000 But he still, he had to be the villain a little bit, you know?

00:53:26.000 And that's the... 0.94

00:53:28.000 I mean, it sucks to say, it's just like every real big black fighter is usually the villain. 1.00

00:53:35.000 But Anthony Joshua's not, but that's not American. 0.90

00:53:38.000 Yeah, he's British.

00:53:39.000 He's different.

00:53:40.000 He's totally different, man.

00:53:41.000 He's loved over there.

00:53:42.000 Yeah, it's a totally different atmosphere.

00:53:44.000 When was the last time we had a really loved African-American fighter in America?

00:53:52.000 I mean, they're out there.

00:53:54.000 I mean, for sure.

00:53:54.000 People love Roy Jones.

00:53:55.000 Roy Jones.

00:53:57.000 People love Muhammad Ali after, you know. 0.99

00:54:00.000 But even Roy Jones took some shit for being cocky. 0.98

00:54:03.000 Well, for sure. 1.00

00:54:03.000 You know, because he was so dominant. 1.00

00:54:07.000 But that's the culture, though.

00:54:08.000 You gotta be cocky.

00:54:09.000 You gotta be all those things. 1.00

00:54:10.000 Like, even the way I talk a lot of shit, but that's just because that's the culture. 0.99

00:54:15.000 Like, that's what I do. 0.99

00:54:16.000 I mean, that's...

00:54:16.000 Well, it's also an effective mind game strategy.

00:54:21.000 A guy who's talking shit to you, it makes you more anxious, more nervous, more emotions, more everything. 0.99

00:54:29.000 With certain guys. 1.00

00:54:30.000 There's certain guys that you can play that to.

00:54:33.000 Like I said, everybody's got those three categories.

00:54:35.000 With athletes, especially athletes and competitors, they kind of...

00:54:39.000 You know, get more shooken up by stuff like that. 0.98

00:54:41.000 A fighter don't give a fuck. 1.00

00:54:42.000 You know, you talk shit to Nate Diaz, he don't give a fuck. 1.00

00:54:45.000 He loves it. 1.00

00:54:46.000 He likes it.

00:54:47.000 He likes it more.

00:54:48.000 Me, I like it a little bit more.

00:54:50.000 Connor, you can tell he likes it a little bit more. 0.96

00:54:52.000 It gets my mind off the actual fight itself because that's what we grew up like talking shit, you know, so it's Some guys, though, it rattles them. 0.99

00:55:00.000 You know the best I've ever seen, the best response to someone shit-talking? 0.99

00:55:04.000 Rose Namajunas. 0.99

00:55:05.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:55:05.000 She just went dark.

00:55:07.000 Masterful.

00:55:08.000 She went like a monk. 0.81

00:55:09.000 I'm a huge Rose fan.

00:55:10.000 She's so badass. 0.99

00:55:12.000 Yeah, she's dope. 1.00

00:55:13.000 She might be the best-looking girl in the UFC, and she shaves her fucking head and never wears makeup. 1.00

00:55:17.000 She doesn't give a fuck. 1.00

00:55:18.000 Yeah, yeah. 1.00

00:55:19.000 I mean...

00:55:19.000 It's crazy.

00:55:20.000 Yeah, and she's, I mean, a phenomenal, phenomenal fighter. 1.00

00:55:24.000 Phenomenal.

00:55:24.000 Yeah, I mean...

00:55:25.000 But just when she was standing in front of...

00:55:26.000 Yoana, and she was citing the Lord's Prayer. 0.93

00:55:29.000 Gangster.

00:55:30.000 Yoana's like, I'm the boogeyman. 1.00

00:55:31.000 Come to get you.

00:55:32.000 I'm the boogeyman.

00:55:33.000 And she's like, Our Father in Heaven, how would be the name of it? 1.00

00:55:37.000 Gangster shit you ever heard in your life. 0.99

00:55:39.000 It was crazy. 1.00

00:55:39.000 It was like a movie. 1.00

00:55:40.000 Dude, she made me nervous.

00:55:41.000 She made me nervous when I was standing next to her. 0.99

00:55:43.000 That's what the thing with, you know, people look at my style, even the way I promote it and talk fights and, you know, talk shit or whatever. 0.97

00:55:50.000 But there's so many ways to do it. 0.86

00:55:52.000 You know, there's so many ways to, like, Entertain and have fun with it. 0.99

00:55:56.000 You don't always have to be, I'ma smack the shit out of your mama and all this. 1.00

00:56:00.000 There's so many different ways. 0.99

00:56:02.000 You can not say anything and it become off just as fucking gangsta as the dude that's screaming from across the room. 0.95

00:56:09.000 But there is a pressure, right? 1.00

00:56:10.000 Isn't there pressure on fighters to sell in hype fights, to talk a lot of shit? 0.97

00:56:14.000 I mean, you're seeing Colby Covington taking it off the deep end. 0.98

00:56:18.000 He goes...

00:56:19.000 He goes so crazy, I don't even think they let him go to Brazil.

00:56:22.000 When I heard that he was going to fight Dos Anjos in Brazil, I was like, no, Kobe!

00:56:26.000 I was thinking of reaching out and telling people to call and bring your own water, whatever you do.

00:56:30.000 I mean, I guess he's doing his thing.

00:56:33.000 He's still winning fights.

00:56:34.000 So at the end of the day, that's what really matters is that he's winning fights.

00:56:39.000 But yeah, I mean, that's stylish.

00:56:40.000 He's got us talking about him.

00:56:41.000 He's got us talking about him.

00:56:43.000 Yeah, that too.

00:56:43.000 That too.

00:56:44.000 But that style, I mean, that shit get played out. 1.00

00:56:47.000 And you can just tell. 0.99

00:56:49.000 When it's forced, it's not good.

00:56:52.000 You know what I mean?

00:56:52.000 Well, he just goes against people he doesn't have to.

00:56:56.000 Like, he was talking some shit about Jon Jones. 0.99

00:56:58.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:56:58.000 Like, Jon Jones will smack you in your fucking face, and there's not much you're going to be able to do about it. 1.00

00:57:02.000 One day you might be in front of him, and then what are you going to do? 1.00

00:57:05.000 You know?

00:57:05.000 I mean, just...

00:57:07.000 You're not even fighting Jon Jones. 0.98

00:57:08.000 Why are you talking shit about Jon? 0.98

00:57:10.000 Yeah, I don't know. 0.99

00:57:10.000 It doesn't make any sense. 0.99

00:57:11.000 I don't know.

00:57:11.000 A couple people, even females, I guess he's just trying to get the noise running or whatever.

00:57:16.000 I just think there's so many different ways to do it.

00:57:18.000 That's the most primitive way of trying to sell yourself and sell a fight.

00:57:24.000 There's so many ways. 0.97

00:57:25.000 Even me, I came up with a lot of the shit that I started doing, I just kind of came up with. 0.96

00:57:31.000 In the moment. 0.96

00:57:32.000 Yeah, just, well, before the first big one was the Mike Chiesa thing, you know, where I kind of hit him at the press conference. 0.73

00:57:40.000 But going into that My mindset wasn't like, oh, let me talk as much shit as I can about them, or let me jump up and down and all this.

00:57:54.000 It just was, I did have that, I wanted to stand out. 0.95

00:57:58.000 Not necessarily that I wanted to entertain. 0.97

00:58:00.000 I just was like, I'm sitting behind fucking Jon Jones and Daniel Cormier. 0.98

00:58:04.000 I'm like a kid in a candy store. 0.98

00:58:08.000 So I just, I wanted to Stand out as much as possible, you know?

00:58:12.000 Do you feel like now that you've had a few of these big fights, right?

00:58:16.000 The Chiesa fight was a high profile fight, and then of course the Tony fight was a very high profile, and then this last Barboza fight was a real big fight.

00:58:22.000 Do you feel like now you've like settled more into the fact that not only do you belong here, you deserve to be here, but you're more comfortable being here?

00:58:31.000 Yeah, there's that saying, like, the fake it till you make it.

00:58:35.000 Right.

00:58:36.000 You know?

00:58:37.000 Like, for real.

00:58:38.000 Like, that's not a joke.

00:58:39.000 Why were you faking it?

00:58:40.000 Like, when did you feel like you were faking it?

00:58:41.000 Obviously, you were never really faking it because you were winning fights.

00:58:44.000 I exaggerated, you know? 0.99

00:58:46.000 Like, I exaggerated certain shit. 0.99

00:58:48.000 Like, I was having fun with it, but I was kind of learning on the job, too. 0.97

00:58:52.000 Because, like, doing interviews and stuff like that, it takes some...

00:58:55.000 It's hard to get to your level.

00:58:57.000 Like, you're very, like...

00:58:58.000 I listen to your show all the time.

00:59:00.000 Like, you're...

00:59:01.000 Love it.

00:59:01.000 Thank you.

00:59:02.000 But you are very good at it.

00:59:04.000 It takes a long time to do that.

00:59:06.000 I had to kind of learn on the job.

00:59:08.000 So yeah, I would exaggerate a little bit too much here and there.

00:59:11.000 But the fake it till you make it thing, I think it's...

00:59:16.000 A lot of people hear that and they take it negatively all the time.

00:59:21.000 I always heard that and I took it positive.

00:59:25.000 I read George St. Pierre's book and he talked about that a lot.

00:59:28.000 He texted me two days before this fight with Barboza and he was talking about giving me some tips and pointers and all that.

00:59:35.000 But the last thing he said to me was, You know, you're gonna have that fear before you go in there, but once you get in there, your body's just gonna turn on autopilot.

00:59:43.000 Just fake it till you make it.

00:59:44.000 Fake the confidence until you make it.

00:59:45.000 And I think that's how he approaches it.

00:59:47.000 That's interesting.

00:59:49.000 What fight...

00:59:50.000 What it was is...

00:59:52.000 Like I said, going into that press conference especially, I wanted to stand out.

00:59:55.000 And through the rest of my life, in Detroit especially, I was always taught, like, don't stand out as much as you can.

01:00:02.000 Stay low and keep moving.

01:00:04.000 Chill.

01:00:04.000 Keep your head down.

01:00:06.000 Them folks' business is them folks' business. 0.99

01:00:08.000 I always stayed on what I'm doing.

01:00:10.000 I always kind of had a vision.

01:00:12.000 I always had to go.

01:00:13.000 So my opposite was to stand out.

01:00:16.000 So I had to kind of...

01:00:18.000 Fake it.

01:00:20.000 And not necessarily fake it till I make it, fake it till I became it.

01:00:24.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:00:24.000 And I think it was right after the Tony fight where I was like, maybe the two months it took me to get over it.

01:00:32.000 At that moment, I was like, man, I really do have that confidence.

01:00:37.000 I don't have to fake it.

01:00:39.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:00:40.000 The Tony fight.

01:00:41.000 The Tony fight.

01:00:42.000 I mean...

01:00:43.000 Your podcast, too.

01:00:45.000 I mean, your podcast has been huge to me.

01:00:48.000 And it's hard for me to really explain it.

01:00:51.000 Me just growing up, I didn't have a lot of confidence.

01:00:55.000 People see me and see me in interviews and they just think that's how I was.

01:01:00.000 But I would lose a lot of my wrestling matches as a kid just because I thought that...

01:01:07.000 And this might alienate some people.

01:01:09.000 And it might sound like off, but it's just the way I grew up.

01:01:14.000 The white boys above 8 Mile, they got the money. 0.98

01:01:19.000 They're working harder than you.

01:01:21.000 They're better than you.

01:01:23.000 So that was kind of like my mentality, even when I started wrestling.

01:01:27.000 These kids start wrestling when they were five.

01:01:29.000 I started when I was 16. And they just would beat me.

01:01:34.000 I wouldn't even really compete with them.

01:01:37.000 It took me to go to college.

01:01:41.000 Because that was my first real exposure to white people.

01:01:45.000 It's as crazy as that sounds.

01:01:47.000 I obviously knew white people when I was a kid.

01:01:50.000 The teachers and stuff.

01:01:51.000 But nobody around my same age.

01:01:53.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:01:54.000 So when I got around, and there's one school in particular, Detroit Catholic Central.

01:01:58.000 They were number one school in Michigan at the time.

01:02:02.000 But they were, so in Detroit, every mile is numbered.

01:02:07.000 I was born and raised pretty much on seven mile.

01:02:10.000 Eight mile is like the divider between the suburbs and the city.

01:02:14.000 These kids were like on 26 mile.

01:02:16.000 So they were like way up there, like with, you know, Rich.

01:02:18.000 Rich is all you know.

01:02:20.000 So I just, I don't know, for some reason, I just didn't have the confidence.

01:02:23.000 But when I got around them and I started living and kind of training together every day, and I realized I'm like, we all the same, you know?

01:02:32.000 He works just as hard as...

01:02:33.000 I can see him every day.

01:02:35.000 I see him going to class and I see him going to his house.

01:02:40.000 That moment gave me the confidence to be like, okay, I can't compete with other people.

01:02:46.000 I can't compete with anybody, really.

01:02:49.000 Your podcast was the next step to that.

01:02:52.000 That was me at the collegiate level.

01:02:54.000 The first podcast I heard from you was the Lance Armstrong one.

01:02:58.000 And I was like, this is like...

01:03:01.000 World-level, you know, and when I hear him talking, I hear him talk so candidly, and I'm like, oh, he's just a normal dude.

01:03:08.000 You know what I mean?

01:03:09.000 He's just, I guess in my head, I didn't have that before, you know?

01:03:12.000 And that's like, we're all the same.

01:03:14.000 And that really has allowed me to go over to Ireland and compete, to go down to Brazil and compete, to fight the best kickboxer in the world and not have that, and still have that same confidence.

01:03:23.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:03:23.000 Right.

01:03:23.000 I see what you're saying.

01:03:24.000 Like, just hearing people talk and realizing that we're all just human.

01:03:29.000 Yeah, all the same.

01:03:31.000 You see some superstar in whatever their field is, whether it's a musician or whatever, you just assume that person has got to be a different thing than you.

01:03:40.000 If you see Mick Jagger or something like that, that's got to be a different thing than me.

01:03:45.000 He's not the same thing as me.

01:03:47.000 Yeah, and the thing with, and I started the hashtag 25toLife and all that mostly because the way I grew up, I didn't get to see many successful people.

01:03:56.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:03:57.000 I didn't have...

01:04:00.000 Nobody ever told me, oh, you can't do this.

01:04:02.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:04:03.000 But nobody ever told me I could either.

01:04:05.000 And nobody showed you other people that were doing it right around you where you could learn from them.

01:04:09.000 I had no examples.

01:04:10.000 You know, the only examples, literally the only examples I had was the dope man, you know, the jack boys, you know, the pimps. 0.77

01:04:17.000 And, you know, you didn't really have much else to really look forward to.

01:04:21.000 So when I was, I thought when I was 25, like where I am now, I thought for sure I was just going to be in jail.

01:04:26.000 Like, Yeah, that's one of the most important points when people talk about people being able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and they should just get a job and they should just do this.

01:04:35.000 You say that because you grew up around that.

01:04:38.000 But if you didn't grow up around anybody doing that, you're feeling the way you felt when you were around wrestlers that had been competing their whole lives.

01:04:46.000 You didn't feel like you belonged there.

01:04:47.000 You didn't have any of that success around you.

01:04:50.000 That's...

01:04:51.000 That is one of the most important things in life is surrounding yourself with positive people.

01:04:56.000 It's so difficult to do if you're in a bad place.

01:04:59.000 If you grew up in a bad neighborhood and you're surrounded by bad people, very few people have the vision to see past that.

01:05:07.000 And they have no examples.

01:05:09.000 I mean, you see someone on television, again, you're going to think, that's not me.

01:05:13.000 Like, still to this day, when I meet a rock star, I still get weirded out.

01:05:16.000 I still get weirded out.

01:05:17.000 It doesn't matter how famous you get.

01:05:18.000 You get weirded out around other famous people.

01:05:20.000 They just don't seem like you.

01:05:22.000 Yeah.

01:05:23.000 And especially when you kind of grow up in that environment and, you know, it's you don't really, you know, you see a doctor on TV and you don't you just don't connect with it.

01:05:33.000 You know, at least for me, like, that's what I wanted to be.

01:05:35.000 I wanted to be a doctor first, but I didn't, you know, I didn't live in neighborhoods with doctors, you know, I didn't meet a doctor.

01:05:41.000 When I did, he was like some old dude. 0.99

01:05:42.000 And it's like he didn't really give a fuck. 1.00

01:05:44.000 He's like, you know, you know, you're on Medicaid, motherfucker. 1.00

01:05:47.000 Like, you know, you know, they get 35 bucks. 1.00

01:05:50.000 Get the fuck on. 0.99

01:05:51.000 But, you know, I think that is a big point of it is just... 1.00

01:05:58.000 To have somebody to tell you that you can, you know what I'm saying?

01:06:02.000 So at least I try.

01:06:03.000 And then to see people around you that are working hard and succeeding and emulate them and learn from them.

01:06:10.000 People, we don't exist in a vacuum.

01:06:12.000 We exist in communities.

01:06:14.000 And this is something that is very difficult for people to understand if they're in a good community.

01:06:19.000 If you're in a good community or if you're in a bad community, it's difficult to understand, too, the value of a good community.

01:06:24.000 100%.

01:06:25.000 I think one of the biggest things is just that integration is really important.

01:06:30.000 And I'm starting to see that the more I'm getting out and kind of seeing the world and seeing the way things run and kind of comparing that to the way I grew up.

01:06:38.000 And it's just like...

01:06:40.000 There was no...

01:06:41.000 There was so much...

01:06:42.000 It just seemed so segregated to me.

01:06:44.000 Which is a weird term to use in this day and night.

01:06:48.000 But it just did.

01:06:50.000 Literally, I remember because my mom, she did a good job of keeping us in good schools.

01:06:56.000 So our school was on 10 Mile, which was in the suburbs.

01:06:58.000 I went to Southfield High.

01:07:00.000 But I remember a couple times, me and my brother, we would try and walk to the school.

01:07:04.000 So you had to walk past through 8 Mile.

01:07:07.000 And...

01:07:08.000 Policeman had pulled over three or four times picked us up in the car and took us back across and then dropped us off like you don't and It's like we go to school there.

01:07:17.000 You know what I mean like they didn't believe you You know we we weren't also like the best looking kids probably Yeah, yeah, we did but but you know I have to but I feel like that integration and It's just really, really important.

01:07:34.000 And I'm starting to see that the more I'm getting out and learning the world.

01:07:38.000 We're all the same.

01:07:39.000 Literally.

01:07:39.000 We're all the same.

01:07:39.000 All the same.

01:07:40.000 I mean, we vary for sure, but we're all just people.

01:07:45.000 And sometimes having all those advantages when you're young is a disadvantage.

01:07:49.000 Because the hungriest, most determined people are the people that had nothing at one point in their life when they understand what nothing means.

01:07:56.000 Yeah.

01:07:56.000 And I think I attribute that to a lot of my success.

01:08:00.000 And that's what I... I always keep in the back of my head.

01:08:04.000 Especially going through college.

01:08:05.000 It was such a rough...

01:08:07.000 20 bucks a week I survived off of.

01:08:10.000 I was fighting full time.

01:08:12.000 I was taking 15 credits.

01:08:14.000 I was wrestling still at the same time.

01:08:16.000 I just was on the hustle.

01:08:18.000 I was moving.

01:08:18.000 Super grind.

01:08:19.000 Super grind, but on nothing.

01:08:22.000 I had a 1996 Thunderbird with 300,000 miles. 1.00

01:08:28.000 I was burning that shit up. 1.00

01:08:31.000 Every day. 1.00

01:08:33.000 But I keep that in the back of my head even now.

01:08:35.000 I don't ever get comfortable.

01:08:37.000 I don't ever get content with it.

01:08:38.000 I think about that with having kids.

01:08:40.000 Because I have young kids.

01:08:41.000 And I think my kids have never known that kind of financial struggle.

01:08:46.000 I think financial struggle in particular is something that just...

01:08:49.000 To this day, I still think about being broke.

01:08:51.000 And it motivates me.

01:08:53.000 I'll never slack off because of that.

01:08:56.000 I think if you haven't...

01:08:58.000 But also like when you have kids, you don't want your kids to struggle. 0.95

01:09:01.000 It's like all my friends that are interesting all have fucked up lives. 0.98

01:09:04.000 All of them. 0.98

01:09:05.000 Everything went crazy. 1.00

01:09:08.000 Everyone was fucking abused or someone was an asshole. 1.00

01:09:11.000 There's alcoholics or drug addicts in their family. 1.00

01:09:14.000 They're all the fun ones.

01:09:16.000 Those are all my favorite people.

01:09:17.000 And they use it as motivation to learn the world and learn things.

01:09:20.000 And that's what I kind of did as a kid.

01:09:22.000 I kind of took a look around when I was...

01:09:25.000 Maybe 15 was probably like the time that really clicked for me when I found MMA and I kind of saw that this is what I want to do.

01:09:34.000 That's when it kind of clicked. 0.99

01:09:35.000 I was just like, I don't want to be around like the rest of these motherfuckers here. 1.00

01:09:39.000 How did you get started? 1.00

01:09:40.000 Where'd you find a good gym?

01:09:42.000 So when I was 15, I just...

01:09:45.000 I saw George St. Pierre and BJ Penn.

01:09:48.000 It was the first time I'd seen a fight.

01:09:51.000 There was no MMA gyms or anything like that.

01:09:55.000 I just went out for the wrestling team at the high school because I was already there and all that.

01:10:00.000 I didn't start really getting into MMA until I came back one year from college.

01:10:07.000 And, uh, I wanted to sign up for a jujitsu tournament and I never trained it or anything.

01:10:11.000 I went and signed up for the jujitsu tournament.

01:10:13.000 And then the guy's like, Oh yeah, we do some fights on, on the jujitsu tournament on Sunday.

01:10:17.000 He was like, we do some fights on Saturday and, uh, there's nobody at, you know, for this, for this guy. 0.99

01:10:21.000 I was like, fight that motherfucker right now. 0.99

01:10:23.000 Like, I never trained before. 1.00

01:10:25.000 I just wrestled.

01:10:26.000 So I was like, yeah, please.

01:10:28.000 It was like Tuesday.

01:10:29.000 How old are you?

01:10:31.000 18?

01:10:32.000 Yeah.

01:10:33.000 I just showed up.

01:10:34.000 No mouthpiece.

01:10:35.000 I didn't know you needed a mouthpiece or cup or anything.

01:10:38.000 Oh, you didn't have a cup?

01:10:38.000 Yeah, the dude I fought was like 26. They went to Walmart.

01:10:42.000 As I'm getting ready to step into the octagon, I was like, where's your mouthpiece and cup?

01:10:48.000 I was like, what?

01:10:51.000 Preparing for a wrestling match, I guess.

01:10:52.000 And they ran to Walmart and grabbed me one. 0.97

01:10:54.000 I beat the fuck out of the guy.

01:10:58.000 Did you have any striking at all? 0.99

01:11:01.000 What I saw on TV. Oh my God!

01:11:05.000 I didn't really have real training until I got over to...

01:11:10.000 I mean, I trained hard with one of my coaches, Sean Desay.

01:11:15.000 He was my first true coach in Michigan.

01:11:17.000 And we trained hard.

01:11:19.000 And he showed me a lot of things.

01:11:20.000 He was a boxer, so he showed me a lot of things.

01:11:23.000 But I didn't really have a real...

01:11:25.000 I was still a full-time student when I got the call from the UFC. I got the call in December and finals...

01:11:31.000 I got to call like finals week. 1.00

01:11:33.000 And I was like, well shit, let me go ahead and bust out these finals and then, you know, I'm done with this shit. 0.99

01:11:38.000 And then the fight was like late January, I think or so. 1.00

01:11:41.000 Wow.

01:11:42.000 Yeah, so I was like a full-time student when I took the, I was taking 15 credits as a med student.

01:11:47.000 So you really had only had like a couple of years of striking at that point.

01:11:50.000 Yeah, yeah, if that, yeah.

01:11:51.000 And, you know, a lot of wrestling and a lot of, you know, I didn't really get it.

01:11:55.000 Really good into striking until I got over to Vegas and worked with Dewey Cooper.

01:11:58.000 That makes it even more impressive, man.

01:12:00.000 You know, that you've been able to make such a big leap in such a short amount of time.

01:12:05.000 I mean, we're talking about like seven years now.

01:12:07.000 I mean, that's really crazy.

01:12:09.000 Consistency, I think.

01:12:10.000 Consistency is the key.

01:12:11.000 Like, I love it.

01:12:12.000 I actually... 1.00

01:12:13.000 Love this shit. 0.99

01:12:14.000 I got the most fights in the lightweight division since my debut than anybody else. 0.99

01:12:19.000 It's just because I stay consistent.

01:12:21.000 I keep my body healthy.

01:12:22.000 I keep showing up.

01:12:23.000 The more you see things coming at you, the better it gets.

01:12:27.000 That's definitely a factor, but I think it's also intelligence.

01:12:30.000 The understanding of your...

01:12:32.000 There's different kinds of intelligence, too.

01:12:35.000 There's intelligence of how to get good at things.

01:12:39.000 Some people just...

01:12:40.000 I don't know if it's a physical thing...

01:12:42.000 If their body works better or if it's just that they are able to see how someone does something and listen to instruction and then break it down and put it together.

01:12:52.000 But I've seen it in little kids, man.

01:12:53.000 When I used to teach little kids, there was little kids that weren't even like physically talented.

01:12:58.000 It's not like they were gymnasts. 0.99

01:12:59.000 They could do backflips and shit. 1.00

01:13:00.000 They could do crazy shit with their body. 1.00

01:13:02.000 There's some kids where you would show them like, see this foot? 1.00

01:13:05.000 This foot's got a pivot and then it's all about your hips.

01:13:07.000 And they would see you and they would go, okay.

01:13:10.000 And then you'd see them breaking it down.

01:13:11.000 And then other kids would be like, They just couldn't see what you were doing.

01:13:15.000 They'd throw their feet up in their air.

01:13:17.000 Their foot would never pivot.

01:13:18.000 They'd put all this pressure on their knee.

01:13:19.000 Like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

01:13:20.000 Don't do that.

01:13:21.000 Don't do that.

01:13:21.000 You've got to turn your hips.

01:13:22.000 Your foot's got to go with it.

01:13:24.000 And then some people just could mirror you.

01:13:26.000 I see it in jiu-jitsu, too.

01:13:28.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:13:28.000 For sure, big time.

01:13:30.000 In jiu-jitsu and grappling, especially.

01:13:32.000 Some people just see it.

01:13:33.000 They just see it.

01:13:34.000 I think it's come...

01:13:37.000 Like you say, it's an intelligence.

01:13:39.000 People think it's just a brute thing that you're doing, but it's very, at least for me, I approach it kind of like a scientist almost.

01:13:47.000 It's A, B, C, D, E. I go from here.

01:13:50.000 If not, then I branch off.

01:13:52.000 I have different systems for every kind of situation that will arise.

01:13:57.000 But I kind of approach it like a scientist.

01:13:59.000 I went to school for biomed.

01:14:01.000 That kind of stuff.

01:14:05.000 There's art to it.

01:14:06.000 There's a huge, huge portion of it that's art.

01:14:09.000 The expression.

01:14:09.000 Yeah, the expression part is art.

01:14:11.000 And I think it's one of the purest art forms fighting this that there is.

01:14:16.000 If someone looks great doing it, that is like a form of art.

01:14:19.000 Oh, 100%.

01:14:20.000 100%.

01:14:21.000 I get so irritated whenever somebody says it's not. 0.96

01:14:24.000 They're crazy. 0.71

01:14:24.000 I get so irritated. 0.71

01:14:25.000 Did you see Bellator when Gaston Bolanos landed that insane spinning elbow?

01:14:31.000 It's like one of the greatest spinning elbows of all time.

01:14:33.000 Probably, probably. 1.00

01:14:34.000 I've watched that shit about 80 times. 1.00

01:14:36.000 I just play it back like I'm watching a flower bloom or watching a fucking eagle soar. 1.00

01:14:41.000 It's just... 1.00

01:14:42.000 He lands this.

01:14:43.000 The dude's coming at him.

01:14:45.000 He steps and bam!

01:14:46.000 Just at the perfect time.

01:14:47.000 And the dude just face plants. 1.00

01:14:48.000 I'm like, that shit is just art. 1.00

01:14:49.000 That's art. 0.99

01:14:50.000 But even when you see a really, really high-level fighter move around, every one of our bodies moves different.

01:14:57.000 You go back to being able to see somebody and emulate it.

01:15:02.000 But you still will put your own style on it.

01:15:05.000 Nobody moves the same.

01:15:06.000 And I think that's what makes it a pure art form.

01:15:10.000 And I think MMA is more so even than boxing.

01:15:12.000 Because in boxing, you only got two hands. 0.80

01:15:14.000 It's a science.

01:15:14.000 It's a sweet science.

01:15:16.000 There's only so many combinations that you can even put together that.

01:15:20.000 But when you talk about something that's Without limits, there's so much art that goes into it.

01:15:26.000 It's like dance.

01:15:27.000 It's like yoga.

01:15:28.000 It's like all these things that are really the truest form of art, I think.

01:15:32.000 Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

01:15:34.000 That's why I was mad at Meryl Streep. 0.96

01:15:37.000 She doesn't know anything about mixed martial arts, which are not the arts! 0.98

01:15:44.000 They are the arts!

01:15:46.000 100%.

01:15:46.000 And I think the most purest form of it, too.

01:15:50.000 What else do you call arts if not that?

01:15:52.000 Well, they don't understand what it is.

01:15:54.000 And one of the things that they don't understand is that it's so difficult to do.

01:15:59.000 And that when you see the finished product, when the person steps into the cage and competes that night, you're not just seeing these brutish moves.

01:16:07.000 You're seeing their soul.

01:16:08.000 You're seeing how much focus, where they are as a human in their life at this point.

01:16:13.000 Where's the vitality of their body?

01:16:15.000 What kind of...

01:16:16.000 What martial arts education have they gotten?

01:16:19.000 How technically aware are they?

01:16:21.000 How much did they think about the training?

01:16:23.000 If they're a wrestler, did they only concentrate on the wrestling?

01:16:25.000 Did they stay away from striking because they don't like getting hit?

01:16:27.000 If they're a striker, did they only concentrate on staying up or did they learn how to fight on the ground?

01:16:32.000 Did they absorb at all?

01:16:33.000 Did they develop a full repertoire of expression with their body throwing bones and choking each other? 0.72

01:16:40.000 And at the same time, going through life, through the whole situation, that's the hardest part.

01:16:46.000 At the end of the day, I'm still a 25-year-old dude. 0.99

01:16:48.000 I'm still learning shit. 0.99

01:16:50.000 Trying to keep it together like everybody else. 0.99

01:16:54.000 You'll be like that when you're 80, man.

01:16:57.000 Probably. 1.00

01:16:58.000 It fucking is, man. 1.00

01:16:59.000 We look at these 80-year-old people and say, well, that guy should have his shit together. 1.00

01:17:02.000 That fucking guy's better today than he was yesterday if he's paying attention. 1.00

01:17:05.000 I think that's what it is, too. 1.00

01:17:08.000 At the core of it, I always think that everybody else has their shit together. 0.99

01:17:12.000 I just assume everybody else... 0.99

01:17:14.000 That's from your childhood.

01:17:15.000 100%, I think.

01:17:16.000 100%.

01:17:17.000 I had the same problem. 0.99

01:17:18.000 I think everybody has their shit together, and everybody can see that I don't. 0.99

01:17:22.000 They can see my flaws. 0.99

01:17:24.000 And it keeps me sharp, though.

01:17:26.000 And it translates to fighting, too.

01:17:29.000 It's like...

01:17:29.000 If my hand goes here for a split second, I feel like the guy can see it.

01:17:33.000 You know what I mean?

01:17:33.000 Or when I throw something, I feel like he's going to be there to block it.

01:17:37.000 That's the best way to stay?

01:17:38.000 It makes me stay sharp, but it goes from sometimes outside of life, too.

01:17:44.000 It's good that you think like this because clearly you're a very confident guy and you're obviously successful in your mixed martial arts career, but to have just a little bit of that insecurity is fuel.

01:17:55.000 It just keeps you sharp.

01:17:57.000 It keeps you aware.

01:17:58.000 To be confident is good.

01:18:02.000 Delusional.

01:18:03.000 It's terrible.

01:18:03.000 Yeah, 100%.

01:18:04.000 Terrible. 0.99

01:18:05.000 Everybody knows that one guy that thinks he can beat a guy that he's not ever going to fucking be able to beat. 0.96

01:18:10.000 You know, I mean, there's a lot of people like, give me that fight. 0.96

01:18:12.000 I'll take that fight.

01:18:12.000 Oh, yeah, 100%.

01:18:13.000 It's like, hold on, bro.

01:18:16.000 It's like, wait, hold on. 0.91

01:18:18.000 That's why you don't see, you know, you never see me say some outlandish shit like, oh, I can't never be beat or, you know, or I can go out there and, you know, arm bar Cain Velasquez, you know, or something like that. 0.87

01:18:28.000 I mean, Not meaning to pick on Ronda, but... 0.92

01:18:31.000 I know what you're saying.

01:18:32.000 I know what you're saying.

01:18:33.000 But I think the Ronda thing, there was a lot going on there, man.

01:18:38.000 Coaching-wise, there was a lot going on there.

01:18:41.000 She just came along at a time when there was no one like her.

01:18:45.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:18:45.000 And she was a real Olympic caliber athlete, and her judo was at such a high level, no one could fuck with her. 0.99

01:18:53.000 And she was throwing people around until someone could fuck with her, until she ran into someone like Holly Holm. 1.00

01:18:59.000 then we really saw the holes in the preparation the distractions the fact that she had you know movie deals going on they wanted her to do roadhouse and she's scripts and this and agent meetings and all the bullshit man it's like a fucking hollywood it it was like a hollywood script yeah like this is what happens to you and this is how like rocky when rocky went soft and And then all of a sudden you got this badass Holly Holm sitting there ready to fucking head kick you into another dimension. 0.99

01:19:28.000 And that's what happened. 0.95

01:19:30.000 And like you said, I think most of it is just trying to stay aware and not get delusional about it.

01:19:34.000 Because it is very easy to kind of slip into that and fall into that. 0.99

01:19:38.000 And, you know, sometimes shit will hit you. 0.99

01:19:40.000 And that's what happened in my second fight that I lost to Leonardo Santos. 0.99

01:19:46.000 In each fight...

01:19:49.000 I can always see myself losing, you know?

01:19:52.000 And people ask me that and they're like, you talk about all this visualization that you do, like, sometimes I visualize myself getting hurt too in fights.

01:19:59.000 Do you do that to see how you recover?

01:20:01.000 Like, how do you, what do you do?

01:20:02.000 So it's not a new experience. 0.99

01:20:05.000 When Barboza fucking spinning heel kicks me in the head. 0.99

01:20:08.000 It's always the punch that don't hurt you. 0.99

01:20:13.000 We were texting before that fight, and we were setting up this podcast.

01:20:17.000 Listen, I just got to concentrate on making sure that dude don't kick me in the head. 0.99

01:20:20.000 And then after the fight, like, damn, he fucking kicked me in the head. 0.99

01:20:25.000 You were definitely preparing yourself for the possibility. 0.99

01:20:30.000 Because it has to be there.

01:20:32.000 The only fight that it wasn't there for me was Leonardo Santos.

01:20:36.000 Because he was a multiple-time champion on the ground in jiu-jitsu.

01:20:42.000 So I was only really worried about his ground game.

01:20:44.000 I kind of just dismissed his stand-up.

01:20:47.000 And I'm like, there's no way this guy's going to beat me.

01:20:49.000 And the worst thing...

01:20:51.000 Happen in the fight like the first minute he got me down and I got off I got him off me in like 30 seconds or something and after that I was like whew this is about to be a cakewalk.

01:21:00.000 I'm about to just run through this man like he don't you know I'm like it was 17,000 people in the arena.

01:21:07.000 I'm like we all just waiting on him to fall you know only him he was the only one that saw that he could clip me. 0.98

01:21:15.000 And I'll be damned.

01:21:17.000 But how valuable was that fight for you, though?

01:21:19.000 I mean, it was probably one of the most important ones in my career.

01:21:25.000 I mean...

01:21:26.000 There's been a couple. 0.98

01:21:27.000 The losses have always been the ones that I feel like I will look back and I'll say, damn, that was the one that really made it.

01:21:33.000 That fight in particular, I think, really made it because it kind of drilled home some of the things that Robert Follis was selling to me. 0.68

01:21:39.000 That's the only fight since I've been in Vegas.

01:21:41.000 Well, obviously since before this fight, but that Robert Follis wasn't in my corner.

01:21:46.000 And it was...

01:21:48.000 If I'm being honest, it would save some money.

01:21:50.000 It would save the 10% that he was wanting or whatever.

01:21:53.000 And I was like, I'm going to smoke this kid.

01:21:55.000 I'm like, Rob, just sit back.

01:21:56.000 You watch it from home.

01:21:59.000 Enjoy.

01:22:00.000 And I'm going to go out there and I'm going to smoke this kid.

01:22:03.000 And I didn't have his voice of reason.

01:22:06.000 Mm-hmm.

01:22:07.000 To make me say, this kid is dangerous everywhere.

01:22:11.000 You know what I mean?

01:22:11.000 Stay sharp everywhere.

01:22:13.000 And I let my guard down and he hit me with a good punch.

01:22:17.000 But it was that one where I was like, I never had Rob not in my corner again.

01:22:22.000 Or that voice, you know.

01:22:24.000 And now I have to make do without it.

01:22:26.000 But, you know.

01:22:28.000 You're recreating it though.

01:22:29.000 But to go back, he was just that voice of reason not to get delusional.

01:22:32.000 You know what I mean?

01:22:33.000 Because it is easy, especially when you're young and you got the hormones flying and you feel like you're the man. 0.99

01:22:39.000 You're confident like, shit, I'm the man. 1.00

01:22:41.000 You can't touch me. 1.00

01:22:43.000 But you gotta have somebody like, hey, bro, bro.

01:22:47.000 You're very good, but you still gotta be sharp too.

01:22:50.000 These men that you're fighting are very, very good too.

01:22:52.000 Do you think that sometimes someone can't tell it to you?

01:22:55.000 Do you just have to learn it?

01:22:56.000 Yeah, you gotta go through those experiences.

01:22:58.000 And I think that's in all walks of everything.

01:23:01.000 And that's kind of what I bring to it, too.

01:23:05.000 I don't want to just be a great fighter.

01:23:07.000 I want to be great at everything.

01:23:09.000 I want to be a chef, and I want to be a dancer, and I want to be a scientist, and a doctor.

01:23:14.000 That's just the way my brain works. 0.99

01:23:15.000 I just want to be the best at fucking everything. 1.00

01:23:17.000 Good for you. 0.99

01:23:18.000 That's a great way to think, man.

01:23:23.000 It's kind of interesting sometimes, but, you know.

01:23:27.000 It's a great expression, the way you do anything is the way you do everything.

01:23:32.000 Yeah, well, probably, yeah.

01:23:35.000 Yeah, I mean, I think there's something to that.

01:23:38.000 If you half-ass things, I mean, you can get away with being a great fighter and still half-ass things in your life, but maybe you would be better if you didn't. 0.97

01:23:45.000 Like, maybe you would be an even better fighter, or better whatever you are, fucking tennis player, whatever it is, if you didn't half-ass other things in your life. 0.97

01:23:54.000 Maybe you would really reach your full potential. 0.99

01:23:57.000 100%.

01:23:58.000 And I think that even in the fighting realm, that's what a lot of this last fight was for me, is getting back to...

01:24:06.000 Making the fight first.

01:24:09.000 Focusing on the fight before anything else.

01:24:11.000 And relieving some of the mental stress off me before I step into the...

01:24:15.000 When I stepped in for that Tony fight, I was already tired.

01:24:20.000 I was already...

01:24:20.000 My body was already...

01:24:21.000 My brain was just overloaded.

01:24:23.000 And I was already broken down.

01:24:25.000 And I made the fight second.

01:24:27.000 Or I made the fight last.

01:24:31.000 We went race car driving the week of the fight.

01:24:34.000 And looking back on it after, I was like, oh my god.

01:24:38.000 In Vegas?

01:24:38.000 Yeah.

01:24:39.000 Did you go to one of those exotic places?

01:24:40.000 The Dream Racing.

01:24:41.000 Shout out to them.

01:24:42.000 I mean, they hooked me up.

01:24:44.000 I had fun.

01:24:45.000 Don't you think it's also important to have some recreation?

01:24:48.000 Yeah, but that's a little...

01:24:50.000 That was too much?

01:24:51.000 A little too much, mostly because they were filming and I wanted to make it good.

01:24:55.000 We had fun with it.

01:24:56.000 Oh, for the countdown shows?

01:24:58.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1.00

01:25:00.000 How hard is that shit? 1.00

01:25:01.000 How hard is the press obligations and all the constant interviews and all that shit? 1.00

01:25:06.000 I enjoy it. 0.98

01:25:07.000 I honestly enjoy doing media for the most part.

01:25:11.000 It's just uncertain.

01:25:13.000 It can be...

01:25:16.000 Too much sometimes.

01:25:17.000 Do they organize it around your training?

01:25:19.000 Or do you have to organize your training around media obligations?

01:25:22.000 I usually organize it around my training.

01:25:25.000 That's good.

01:25:26.000 When you hear that the training has to be organized around media obligations, I'm like, oh, that's not good. 0.98

01:25:33.000 I've heard of people having to get up at 6 in the morning and do a block of radio calls and shit. 0.95

01:25:38.000 I'm like, well, I don't like that. 1.00

01:25:40.000 I don't like that shit. 1.00

01:25:41.000 Yeah, you have to do that, but I still... 1.00

01:25:46.000 I just make do with it.

01:25:47.000 I think as long as you're enjoying it and you're just going with the flow, it's not a hindrance necessarily. 0.99

01:25:53.000 If you're like, fuck, I don't want to fucking be here. 1.00

01:25:55.000 I don't want to get up at 6am and do this shit. 1.00

01:25:58.000 Then when you get to, all I want to do is train the whole time. 0.99

01:26:01.000 It can be a hindrance even more so.

01:26:03.000 Right.

01:26:04.000 Yeah, I guess, right?

01:26:05.000 The way you approach something will change what that thing is.

01:26:10.000 Yeah, and it's got to be natural for you, too.

01:26:12.000 I actually like doing it, so I think it's just something that if I could see myself, if I forced it or if I was one of these guys that didn't at all, then yeah, I could see it being even a bigger hindrance, but since I like it, I mean, it's fine.

01:26:28.000 That's great.

01:26:29.000 Well, as long as it doesn't fuck with your training. 0.95

01:26:31.000 One of the things I was really impressed about Saturday night is your endurance.

01:26:34.000 I mean, you were fresh as a daisy even in the fifth round, and that was a grueling pace.

01:26:39.000 You know, and we didn't really focus too much on too much conditioning.

01:26:44.000 You know, I did a lot of long runs to kind of thin my muscles out a little bit.

01:26:49.000 I did a lot of longer cardio stuff.

01:26:52.000 I kind of got away from a lot of the explosiveness that I used to do, especially for the Tony fight.

01:26:56.000 Tony fight was all explosion.

01:26:58.000 It was all big movements. 1.00

01:27:00.000 It was all like, you know, I'm going to knock this motherfucker out. 0.99

01:27:04.000 But this fight, and I realized during that, I was like, you know, I got to approach it smarter. 0.99

01:27:12.000 In that, it actually became better cardio than me pushing myself too hard.

01:27:18.000 I'm torn on that because I see guys preparing that way where they do a lot of long runs.

01:27:24.000 That's a big Nate Diaz thing and his brother Nick.

01:27:27.000 They do ultra marathons and triathlons.

01:27:31.000 I feel like there's some real benefit to having that deep base in cardio.

01:27:36.000 100%.

01:27:36.000 But I mean, it's balance.

01:27:38.000 Balance like anything else with life.

01:27:39.000 You know, you got to be able to balance those really strong, you know, you can't explode every time.

01:27:46.000 You can't sprint the whole time.

01:27:47.000 You can't run a marathon the whole time either.

01:27:49.000 So I try my best to, that's how I want to be, as well-rounded as I possibly can be in having great cardio and understanding what that's like is part of that.

01:27:59.000 Yeah, it's hard for people to understand, but you're not throwing 100% of your power all the time.

01:28:04.000 Yeah, you can't.

01:28:05.000 You can't.

01:28:06.000 Yeah, no, you can't.

01:28:07.000 Especially not with a guy like Barboza, who is in there the whole time.

01:28:10.000 There was some spots that I got him, and it's like guys normally will give up.

01:28:15.000 They'll quit.

01:28:16.000 I'm hitting them with... 1.00

01:28:18.000 Big shots. 0.64

01:28:19.000 And he's just steady showing the ref that I'm still in this thing.

01:28:22.000 I'm still moving.

01:28:22.000 And then he stands up and he can spin and wheel kick you.

01:28:25.000 He's still got that explosiveness in him.

01:28:29.000 You can't go 100% right out the gate.

01:28:31.000 You got to be smart.

01:28:33.000 You can't wear out.

01:28:34.000 You got to be smart.

01:28:35.000 And that's one of the things that Rob would always tell me.

01:28:37.000 And again, that's one of the things I'm telling myself during the fight.

01:28:40.000 Be smart.

01:28:41.000 Barboza's also, I think, the first guy and the only guy to stop two people with leg kicks.

01:28:46.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:28:48.000 Vicious leg kicks.

01:28:49.000 Yeah, my shin is on fire right now.

01:28:52.000 I checked a couple of them.

01:28:54.000 Did you bring in anybody that does wheel kicks or anything to get used to the timing of that?

01:28:59.000 Yeah, a couple guys.

01:29:01.000 Really good Taekwondo specialist.

01:29:04.000 His name is Vlad.

01:29:06.000 Shout out to Vlad.

01:29:08.000 He's probably the best.

01:29:10.000 He's a little bit better than Barboza.

01:29:12.000 Barboza's...

01:29:13.000 Really?

01:29:13.000 No, no, no.

01:29:15.000 Just on that non-telegraphic portion of it, because that's what really gets you hurt, which Barbosa is very non-telegraphic.

01:29:22.000 But those Taekwondo guys, they can move a little bit different.

01:29:25.000 You know, Chris Spang is another one that Woodley brought out for Wonderboy because he's got that same style.

01:29:32.000 That Taekwondo style of spinning is a little bit different.

01:29:36.000 I brought out like three or four guys.

01:29:37.000 Well, it's the guy, when you train like that, you're not throwing punches to the face.

01:29:41.000 So the kicks have to be ultra fast.

01:29:44.000 And there's also, I think, there's some benefit to learning like Kyokushin for that and Taekwondo for that.

01:29:51.000 When they take out those punches to the face, there's something about leg dexterity.

01:29:55.000 Those guys have crazy leg, like Yair Rodriguez style.

01:29:58.000 Like crazy leg dexterity.

01:30:00.000 Yeah, me and Yair got to spar a couple of times before this last fight.

01:30:04.000 He's another one of those.

01:30:05.000 I mean, he's got that same type of style.

01:30:08.000 And I steal a lot from those guys.

01:30:10.000 I kind of started picking it up when I fought a kid named James Moutassari.

01:30:14.000 He's very good.

01:30:15.000 He was a national champion.

01:30:17.000 National Taekwondo champion.

01:30:18.000 A couple of times, I think, for Korea.

01:30:21.000 But I mean, he's just super underrated, especially his kicking.

01:30:25.000 But preparing for that fight...

01:30:27.000 I had to work with a lot of Taekwondo guys and right off the bat, I'm like, oh, this is a different style.

01:30:33.000 It's like four or five different styles of kicking, I think.

01:30:37.000 Theirs is like...

01:30:39.000 One of the better mixes of speed and power and non-telegraphic, and I try and blend that a little bit more with Muay Thai and find the best style.

01:30:48.000 I feel like Muay Thai is absolutely the best, but there's some shit that those Taekwondo guys can do that'll catch you off guard, and if you know those other things, you can do those things.

01:30:58.000 Yeah, 100%. 0.78

01:30:59.000 Like the wheel kicks, and that's what you see with Edson.

01:31:02.000 Yeah, I mean, the tie style has probably the hardest kicks and the most technical from it, but, you know, you can kind of see some of them coming, you know, unless you got freak speed like Barboza, you know, but actually, technical-wise, you know, you can kind of see it coming a little bit more.

01:31:20.000 I just think with the tie style...

01:31:22.000 It's more effective, because it's just more effective, just chopping the legs.

01:31:25.000 It's just brutally effective.

01:31:27.000 And obviously in Taekwondo, there's none of that.

01:31:29.000 So those guys, if you've ever seen matches where Taekwondo guys fight Muay Thai guys, they get obliterated.

01:31:35.000 They get obliterated.

01:31:36.000 For sure.

01:31:37.000 Because if you allow the Muay Thai guy to kick the legs, the Taekwondo guys just really don't know what to do.

01:31:41.000 But once they learn it, Then they have the Taekwondo too, but it's a matter of whether, like we were talking about before, if you're a wrestler, do you really learn how to strike or do you just try to take everybody down?

01:31:51.000 If the Taekwondo guys really learn how to check leg kicks, they already know how to kick.

01:31:57.000 They'll be able to pick up the Thai style way quicker than the Thai guys are going to be able to do jumping wheel kicks and shit like that. 1.00

01:32:04.000 That stuff is already ingrained in their wheelhouse. 0.83

01:32:06.000 It's in their synapses.

01:32:08.000 They know what to do.

01:32:09.000 Yeah, and I think that's one of the things, the beauties about MMA being such a young sport is, you know, you're still seeing guys evolve.

01:32:16.000 And, you know, like me, I'm trying to take the best of those styles and make them great for MMA. You know, because there's certain, you know, you can't chop down a leg if a guy's trying to take you down, you know.

01:32:26.000 But you can still chop the leg, but there's certain ways that you can change that up.

01:32:30.000 And that's one of the beauties about the sport being so young is still figuring out.

01:32:35.000 People ask me...

01:32:36.000 I sat right next to, on an aerial show, I sat right next to Demetrius Johnson, and they asked me who's the best pound-for-pound fighter, and I think people expected me to say me or something, or say DJ, and I honestly don't think that he's been...

01:32:51.000 I haven't seen yet.

01:32:53.000 I think he's still a 16-year-old kid out there somewhere that's going to find the best...

01:32:57.000 The best guy out there?

01:32:58.000 Really?

01:32:59.000 Yeah.

01:32:59.000 Really?

01:33:00.000 You don't think Demetrius is the best guy?

01:33:01.000 No, Demetrius...

01:33:02.000 I mean, Demetrius does...

01:33:04.000 I mean, he's great.

01:33:05.000 He does a lot of things, but he gets away with a lot of stuff that he does because the guys that he's going against are 25-pounders.

01:33:12.000 They don't have a whole lot of explosive one-punch power to really make you pay for some of the mistakes.

01:33:18.000 Especially as far as the hop switching and stuff.

01:33:21.000 That's why TJ can get away with it a lot more at 35, I think, than a 55-pound fighter would.

01:33:28.000 TJ Cruz, a lot of those 35ers can have that style. 0.65

01:33:32.000 Because if you leave an opening, the consequences can be so much more devastating because they hit so much harder.

01:33:37.000 Yeah, I mean your legs are your shock absorbers.

01:33:39.000 When I get the wobble, the leg are the shock absorbers.

01:33:42.000 If your legs are in the air while you get hit by somebody that's explosive like that, you're going night-night.

01:33:48.000 The only thing that's eating all the shock is your brain.

01:33:52.000 I bet Dwayne Ludwig would disagree with you if you sat down and talked to him because I think the idea is to present a very complex target and to overload the brain with possibilities.

01:34:03.000 I feel that, you know, and I try and do that too.

01:34:06.000 I try and, you know, I've taken Dwayne's, a couple of Dwayne's seminars actually.

01:34:10.000 He's a wizard.

01:34:11.000 Yeah, yeah, he comes over to Extreme Couture and does some things.

01:34:14.000 So, you know, I like his style.

01:34:16.000 Shout out to Dwayne Ludwig.

01:34:17.000 Yeah, no, I love Dwayne's style and it's just a different style to be had, but I feel like that's not even, it's still not the best style, you know.

01:34:23.000 I don't think the best style has been, Demetrius Johnson has a great style, but I don't think the best style has been seen yet.

01:34:30.000 Especially for him.

01:34:30.000 But out of what you've seen, He's got the best style.

01:34:34.000 Yeah, I mean, everybody's different.

01:34:36.000 Everybody's different, you know what I'm saying?

01:34:37.000 The argument is him and Jon Jones.

01:34:39.000 These are the two arguments.

01:34:40.000 And I feel like Jon Jones, as far as the level of talent, no question.

01:34:46.000 Jon's faced Shogun, DC twice, Gustafson, I mean, Vitor Belfort.

01:34:54.000 I mean, Jesus Christ.

01:34:55.000 You just keep going and going and going and going.

01:34:58.000 Glover Teixeira.

01:34:59.000 No, he's got the resume, but I don't know.

01:35:01.000 I think George St. Pierre still, you know, George is a little bit behind the times now, a little bit.

01:35:10.000 Do you think so?

01:35:11.000 A little bit.

01:35:12.000 Man, I don't know.

01:35:13.000 After that Bisping fight, I would never say that.

01:35:15.000 Yeah, yeah, but Bisping is also from the same era, I think.

01:35:20.000 I think George St. Pierre, for sure, I think is the greatest fighter that there's been.

01:35:25.000 I mean, when you look at the resumes, I don't think nobody else compares, really.

01:35:30.000 You know, he's got two losses.

01:35:31.000 Avenged both those losses devastatingly.

01:35:34.000 You know, came back after four years and won the title at a higher weight class.

01:35:37.000 And he's never really been in too much trouble in a fight.

01:35:41.000 You know, I look at his style.

01:35:43.000 He's one of those guys.

01:35:44.000 He's one of the very first guys.

01:35:46.000 He's really what got me into the sport.

01:35:48.000 Because I saw his fight with BJ and I just, I can see it.

01:35:53.000 I'm like, this guy is, you know, he's smart.

01:35:56.000 He's approaching it smart, like a true athlete, you know, like a true artist, like a true athlete.

01:36:04.000 There are people that do it too, you know, Demetrius does too, but I just don't think...

01:36:09.000 Well, again, it's the level of competition that he faced.

01:36:12.000 I mean, George faced some seriously stiff competition.

01:36:15.000 Not that Demetrius didn't.

01:36:17.000 I mean, he fought Dominic Cruz.

01:36:18.000 He's fought some tough guys.

01:36:19.000 I was really looking forward to Demetrius versus TJ. I know they were trying to put that together.

01:36:26.000 That would have been the one.

01:36:27.000 It still might be the one.

01:36:29.000 They might still do it.

01:36:31.000 I mean, if TJ can defeat Cody, or even if he doesn't, and if he decides to go down to 25, he can make it, he says.

01:36:38.000 He says he can make it.

01:36:39.000 Yeah, I think he can.

01:36:40.000 And I think he can give him some real problems.

01:36:43.000 Oh, it'll be the biggest fight of his life.

01:36:45.000 100%.

01:36:45.000 For sure.

01:36:46.000 I mean, he's fast.

01:36:47.000 He hits hard.

01:36:48.000 He knocks guys out at 35. What the fuck is he going to do to people at 25 if his body will stay healthy with that weight cut? 0.99

01:36:56.000 And you know as good as anybody that that's very difficult to do because you just feel weaker. 0.99

01:37:00.000 Yeah, I mean, there's that.

01:37:02.000 I know the guys that he trains down in South California with the training lab.

01:37:08.000 And that man approaches it like a scientist, for real.

01:37:12.000 I think he's a mathematician over at UC Berkeley.

01:37:16.000 A genius guy.

01:37:17.000 I sat down with him for about...

01:37:18.000 We talked for maybe about five, six hours.

01:37:21.000 It was mostly him just talking. 0.98

01:37:22.000 And me just sitting there absorbing all the shit that he could tell me about, you know... 0.99

01:37:28.000 Exactly. 0.98

01:37:29.000 I mean, he measures those guys to a T. So if he feels like...

01:37:34.000 Wait a minute, who's training with him?

01:37:36.000 Dillashaw.

01:37:36.000 And is he a strength and conditioning guy?

01:37:39.000 Yeah, Sam Calvito, if I'm saying that right, Sam Calvito, down at training lab.

01:37:45.000 Brilliant, brilliant, man.

01:37:47.000 He's one of the very few guys that I think, in MMA especially, that really, he trained a lot of, he trains David Taylor, a lot of the U.S. Olympic wrestling team.

01:37:58.000 He worked with those guys for a long time.

01:38:00.000 Boy, you're seeing some mad scientists get into the game now, right?

01:38:03.000 When they're realizing there's real money in it.

01:38:05.000 This man is, what, 55, 56?

01:38:08.000 Does those Ironmans?

01:38:10.000 You know, where you gotta, like, I think it's like something crazy, like bike 120 miles, and then you swim 20 miles, and then you run a full marathon.

01:38:19.000 And he's doing it like 53, 54 years old.

01:38:22.000 I'm like, God.

01:38:23.000 I went over and trained with him before, and it's another level of strength and conditioning.

01:38:28.000 So if he says he can get TJ down to 25, I would think he can do it.

01:38:34.000 If he's confident in it, then he can do it in the right way.

01:38:36.000 Well, I spoke to TJ. He was 100% confident that he could make the weight.

01:38:40.000 You've got to also realize, DJ Demetrius just got shoulder surgery.

01:38:45.000 Yeah.

01:38:45.000 So he's still rehabbing from that.

01:38:47.000 Who knows how long that's going to take.

01:38:49.000 I don't know how complex the shoulder surgery was.

01:38:53.000 Still interested in that fight.

01:38:55.000 It's a big one for Demetrius Johnson especially.

01:38:58.000 He needs that extra little pushover.

01:39:01.000 I was trying to give him some tips and tricks when we was doing the media tours together for 2016. No, not necessarily to talk shit, but he's not going to be able to come out and just talk shit. 1.00

01:39:12.000 No, it's not his style. 0.99

01:39:13.000 It's not his style.

01:39:14.000 It don't work.

01:39:17.000 But to round out his game a little bit more, let's say that.

01:39:21.000 Right, I know what you're saying.

01:39:22.000 Because...

01:39:23.000 And I'm going to go back to the most well-rounded fighter.

01:39:26.000 You've got to be able to promote, too.

01:39:28.000 You've got to be able to see people want to see you fight, too.

01:39:32.000 And that thing is a stress.

01:39:34.000 It's a stressor on your training.

01:39:38.000 Like you said, you've got to get up at 6 a.m.

01:39:40.000 Because when you do it, you get more media requests.

01:39:42.000 So you get to have those interviews more.

01:39:44.000 And that's a stress.

01:39:45.000 And it's something that you, Baron, that your opponent don't necessarily have to.

01:39:49.000 A guy like Conor does a lot more media than his opponent do.

01:39:53.000 Of course.

01:39:54.000 It's a bigger stress.

01:39:56.000 If you can handle all those stresses and still go out there and compete, then if you shy away from that, I got to take that away from you as far as being the best power fighter.

01:40:06.000 You know what I mean?

01:40:07.000 That's interesting. 0.99

01:40:08.000 But if it's not Demetrius, then who the fuck is it other than George? 0.97

01:40:11.000 And George isn't really fighting. 0.98

01:40:13.000 Then it's John Jones.

01:40:14.000 It's for sure John Jones.

01:40:16.000 John's not really fighting right now either.

01:40:18.000 Oh, you're saying right now in the sports?

01:40:20.000 It's hard because John, I mean...

01:40:21.000 It's up there.

01:40:22.000 I don't think John took PEDs.

01:40:24.000 People give me a hard time about that.

01:40:25.000 I don't think he did.

01:40:26.000 I think he took something tainted just based on what USADA has said about the levels pre and post-test. 0.99

01:40:33.000 I think he fucked up and took something. 0.99

01:40:35.000 I fucked that money up, man. 1.00

01:40:36.000 Oh, man. 0.99

01:40:37.000 I was rooting for him, too.

01:40:39.000 But he could still come back.

01:40:41.000 And be much bigger.

01:40:43.000 You know, like I said, controversy.

01:40:44.000 Especially when you're black in America, controversy is one of the best things that can happen to you, really. 0.99

01:40:50.000 Well, John, when he's loose, when him and Daniel were in that press conference and Daniel was talking shit, he goes, I beat you after I did cocaine. 0.99

01:40:59.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:40:59.000 When John's just himself, I mean, he's huge. 0.98

01:41:03.000 He's going to be the biggest.

01:41:04.000 He could have already been the biggest star if he'd just been himself from the beginning.

01:41:08.000 If they don't really suspend him for very long and he comes back within a few months, it's entirely possible that he could come back and be the biggest still of all time.

01:41:18.000 I think he's going to be way bigger, especially after, like I said, controversy is a great one when you're black in America. 1.00

01:41:23.000 It really is.

01:41:23.000 Well, it's not just that.

01:41:24.000 It's like for John, like how much more focus will the – I mean, my fear is that he's going to somehow or another sabotage again and that this is not just – that these lessons aren't sinking in.

01:41:41.000 Because there's been so many of them.

01:41:42.000 The car accident where the, you know, broke the lady's arm and she's pregnant. 0.95

01:41:45.000 He runs away.

01:41:47.000 And then slamming the car into the tree.

01:41:49.000 There was so many.

01:41:51.000 And then there's, you know, the first test positive and then the second test positive. 0.99

01:41:55.000 Like, fuck the brawl at the press conference. 1.00

01:41:58.000 Fuck. 1.00

01:41:59.000 It's like there's so many things. 1.00

01:42:01.000 I think that goes back to, you know, not being delusional and having the right team around you and somebody that you really listen to.

01:42:08.000 That's it.

01:42:08.000 That you really, truly listen to.

01:42:10.000 You know, not just somebody that you just kind of, all right, yeah, I hear you.

01:42:15.000 Because it's easy to get that way.

01:42:17.000 It really is.

01:42:18.000 I'm sure.

01:42:19.000 Like, and I've approached it a couple of times.

01:42:21.000 You know, you get that, especially when you got that confidence in the thing that made you great in the first place.

01:42:26.000 It can be like a hindrance to you, too.

01:42:29.000 And I think a lot of it has been, or at least a lot of my growth in the past couple months has been me getting in my own head and understanding it and kind of breaking it down.

01:42:41.000 You know, smoking weed helps.

01:42:43.000 I ain't gonna lie to you.

01:42:44.000 I ain't gonna lie to you.

01:42:47.000 Thank God it's legal now.

01:42:48.000 Yeah, I didn't start until after my loss to Leonardo.

01:42:53.000 Really?

01:42:53.000 Yeah, first time that I did.

01:42:55.000 But honestly, it was probably like the best thing to get.

01:42:59.000 Because I was angry at the fight.

01:43:01.000 I was angry at everything. 0.98

01:43:02.000 You know, I was like, fuck, how can I, you know, this guy, I was like a 10 to 1 favorite going into that fight. 0.98

01:43:06.000 That was the one fight that I never saw. 0.99

01:43:08.000 I was like, I'm going to smoke him.

01:43:10.000 So I just had this anger.

01:43:12.000 And the only way I saw my dad kind of deal with it was alcohol.

01:43:16.000 So I kind of turned to that and, you know, that is no good.

01:43:20.000 It's the worst way to do it.

01:43:22.000 Worst way to do it.

01:43:23.000 It just makes the delusions bigger.

01:43:25.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:43:26.000 It just makes you angrier and it just kind of compounded everything.

01:43:30.000 But honestly, like when I smoked weed, it was like, because at that point I was like, you know what? 0.99

01:43:35.000 I had tuned it out for so long because that's what folks did that I kind of associated with being lazy and not successful and, you know, these fucking... 0.98

01:43:44.000 Me too. 0.99

01:43:44.000 You know, I don't want to be these niggas on the corner. 0.99

01:43:47.000 Right, right. 0.77

01:43:48.000 But when I did, it kind of opened up the anger towards myself.

01:43:54.000 You know what I mean?

01:43:54.000 It kind of opened up my mind for the first time and I think that actually did have a lot of help with it.

01:44:01.000 You know, I don't like chronic or nothing, but, you know, I know what you're saying.

01:44:04.000 I think that's what people are afraid of with it, too, is that paranoia.

01:44:08.000 I always say paranoia is just you looking at things realistically.

01:44:11.000 And even the possibilities of things happening realistically.

01:44:15.000 I mean, some people, for sure, if they have tendencies to be schizophrenic in particular, and then they smoke a lot of weed, it could spiral them.

01:44:22.000 Oh, yeah.

01:44:23.000 Smoking too much of anything is not a good idea.

01:44:27.000 Doing too much of any one thing is not a good idea.

01:44:30.000 I agree.

01:44:32.000 You have to be able to balance.

01:44:35.000 You know what I mean? 0.99

01:44:35.000 You can't just fucking sit on the couch all day. 0.99

01:44:37.000 But I'm glad that you're saying that there's a real benefit to it too. 0.99

01:44:40.000 There's a benefit to it mentally in exposing that vulnerability and just making you aware of who you really are.

01:44:47.000 Like maybe to other people.

01:44:49.000 Yeah.

01:44:49.000 We all, especially men, I think we puff our chests up and we like to look at ourselves as maybe better than we really are because it's like a shield, like a false confident shield that you put up to protect yourself from your vulnerability.

01:45:05.000 But marijuana says, no, no, no, fuck that. 1.00

01:45:07.000 Why don't you just look at whatever the fuck you're vulnerable and stop doing that, stupid. 1.00

01:45:11.000 Like, this is your problem. 1.00

01:45:12.000 This is what you're scared of. 1.00

01:45:13.000 You're like, shit, the weed's right. 1.00

01:45:15.000 It can help you. 1.00

01:45:16.000 Yeah, and it kind of...

01:45:17.000 Like I said, especially after that fight, I remember it.

01:45:20.000 That really made me...

01:45:21.000 That really helped me to get over it.

01:45:23.000 And not just get over it, but to understand it.

01:45:26.000 And understand what I was doing.

01:45:28.000 Because again, you just don't...

01:45:30.000 You know, you get that...

01:45:31.000 Them hormones.

01:45:32.000 Maybe it's testosterone. 1.00

01:45:33.000 You get that fucking pumping. 1.00

01:45:34.000 You just don't... 1.00

01:45:35.000 You know, you don't give a fuck. 1.00

01:45:36.000 That's part of it for sure. 0.99

01:45:37.000 You know, it's just...

01:45:38.000 It's also think about what you're doing for a living, man.

01:45:41.000 It's the most...

01:45:41.000 One of the most risky propositions you could do as a human being outside of war.

01:45:46.000 Yeah.

01:45:46.000 That too.

01:45:47.000 That too.

01:45:47.000 And I took that into, you know, you obviously take that into consideration when you start doing something like this.

01:45:54.000 I've taken into consideration every fight.

01:45:57.000 You know, one slip up, you could be, you know, bad news.

01:46:01.000 Sure.

01:46:01.000 One injury could take you out forever.

01:46:04.000 Especially when I was in my situation, even when I was signing with the UFC, it was like, okay, do I go and try and be a doctor?

01:46:14.000 I was going into bio, man.

01:46:18.000 That seemed more secure.

01:46:20.000 You know what I mean?

01:46:21.000 That seemed more obtainable, easier.

01:46:26.000 Or do I throw caution to the wind?

01:46:29.000 At the time, when I was 18 or 19, that was one of those ones that was hard for me to make.

01:46:42.000 It turned out well, I guess.

01:46:43.000 Well, you know, you're going to have more than one interest, too.

01:46:47.000 That's also part of the problem.

01:46:49.000 There's a lot of people out there that like doing different things, and you might be leaning more towards one than the other, and you just got to kind of soul search.

01:46:57.000 And nobody can answer that other than you.

01:46:59.000 That's why it's terrible when people tell people what to do.

01:47:03.000 When people tell people what you need to do is get a good job, or you need to go with something that's going to be saved.

01:47:09.000 Go with what's attainable.

01:47:11.000 Go with that.

01:47:12.000 You know, like, man, that's not right.

01:47:14.000 Everybody's different.

01:47:15.000 100%.

01:47:15.000 I think that's the, that's, I mean, to go back just to Rob, that's, that's what he did so well.

01:47:20.000 He didn't, he didn't tell me what to do.

01:47:23.000 He just showed me the truth, kind of.

01:47:25.000 You know what I mean?

01:47:26.000 He just, he was that voice in my, it was like the conscious.

01:47:29.000 And I mean, and your show too, like you do a good, you do a great job of it.

01:47:33.000 And I mean, I know you've heard it before, like, but you just are very truthful in what you say. 0.93

01:47:38.000 And instead of being like, Preachy, because nobody listens to fucking preachy, you know what I mean? 0.81

01:47:44.000 Preachy is usually, well, I try not to be, but sometimes it comes off, maybe sounding preachy if you don't know me, but it's just honest. 0.96

01:47:53.000 And that, you know, there's, what you say about Robert, one of the most important things about it is that he shows you.

01:48:00.000 He's just showing you, and you can trust him.

01:48:03.000 Those two things are very important.

01:48:05.000 Someone who just show you things, show you what's wrong, and that you can trust.

01:48:09.000 He's not bullshitting you. 1.00

01:48:11.000 As soon as you think that someone is bullshitting you, or bullshitting themselves, or being deluded, you're like, fuck, man, I can't. 0.99

01:48:17.000 Because they might have good information about other things. 0.99

01:48:19.000 That's a real problem. 1.00

01:48:21.000 When someone's an idiot, but also a genius. 1.00

01:48:23.000 Like, that exists. 1.00

01:48:25.000 There's people out there, and those people, that's a fucking puzzle. 1.00

01:48:28.000 You gotta go, okay, how much of this dude, what he's saying is stupid? 1.00

01:48:31.000 How much of what he's saying is genius? 1.00

01:48:33.000 And sometimes it's a weird mixture.

01:48:35.000 Yeah, and I think that's one of the things that I'm learning, especially as I'm kind of going forward, because you get to meet so many people, and so many people want to be a friend.

01:48:45.000 All of a sudden, there's so many people.

01:48:47.000 Everybody's got their...

01:48:48.000 Want to tell you how to do your job.

01:48:50.000 Everybody want to tell me how to fight and everybody want to tell me what to do and how to do that.

01:48:55.000 Some people really know what they're talking about, actually, though. 0.95

01:48:57.000 So you have to be able to, you know, I think you got to find that your little bullshit meter in there and kind of pick it apart. 0.96

01:49:05.000 For me, Rob was that. 1.00

01:49:07.000 But the shit that he still says is, you know... 1.00

01:49:10.000 I mean, you could get information on how to fight from your yoga instructor. 1.00

01:49:13.000 She could say something to you, and that one thing would just sit in your head.

01:49:16.000 Yeah, 100%.

01:49:17.000 Oh.

01:49:18.000 Yeah, I had a girl named Yuko, a little Japanese girl, that was giving me privates in yoga. 1.00

01:49:25.000 But the way she broke it down was like anatomy, almost.

01:49:29.000 She knew the exact...

01:49:31.000 You know, position that I was here instead of being here where I was losing my balance or I was losing some of my power or it was putting more strain on one area than the other and making it harder.

01:49:41.000 And I'm just like, this translates so well, you know?

01:49:44.000 Even when I do ballet, it's like...

01:49:47.000 I can see when I'm off balance.

01:49:51.000 As one of the things in ballet, as you're spinning, keep your eyes on there so you don't get dizzy.

01:49:57.000 So even when Barbosa kicked me, I just made sure. 1.00

01:49:59.000 I saw four of them, but I'm like, let me keep my eyes on this motherfucker. 1.00

01:50:04.000 He's like... 0.99

01:50:05.000 Stay on of it, but it all translates because it's all the human body.

01:50:09.000 It's all the same thing. 0.99

01:50:11.000 It's just different ways of expressing the way your body moves and what it does, but it's the same shit. 0.99

01:50:17.000 It's only one. 0.99

01:50:18.000 It's like a giant computer.

01:50:20.000 And I would think that learning all these different ways to move would just enhance your overall understanding of how your body works.

01:50:25.000 Yeah, yeah, and it makes you I think it like makes you more in tune with it to you know to make it healthy That's one of the biggest keys.

01:50:32.000 I think it's just being as healthy as as possible and not You know tampering with that too much for sure and also flexibility I think having flexibility is so important for a fighter You know being able to move your body.

01:50:45.000 There's some people that just aren't flexible They just can't move in certain ways and you know I can tell from watching you throw head kicks in that fight like you're flexible and You don't have a lot of tension in your legs when you're doing that.

01:50:57.000 I think tension is the perfect word for it, really, because that's what causes you to tighten, too.

01:51:05.000 When a guy, it's difficult for him to throw a body kick, and you see him kind of leaning, and you see that stroke.

01:51:12.000 I love Dan Henderson.

01:51:13.000 Big fan.

01:51:14.000 That dude looks like he can't even touch his toes.

01:51:16.000 Yeah, not at all. 0.99

01:51:17.000 When he threw a head kick in the Hector Lombard fight, I was like, holy shit! 0.98

01:51:21.000 But it's the way he threw it, it's like his whole body has to cock sideways. 0.99

01:51:24.000 It takes a lot of images.

01:51:27.000 Whereas some people throw head kicks and you don't even see it coming.

01:51:31.000 Yeah, I mean, and also in grappling, too.

01:51:34.000 You know, you have to be able to have strength, I think, in every direction.

01:51:38.000 Yeah, that's one of the biggest reason why I don't lift weights is because you get so used to in that one Uniform direction that's interesting you have to be able to move I have to be just as strong here as I am here as I am there You know, do you get all your resistance from just grappling or from these these calisthenics and plyometrics and different Grappling a lot.

01:51:57.000 You know, yeah, I just pick guys up and put them down So that's a lot of body weight - so that's 100% exercise Now, do they concentrate on specific core exercises, or do you have days where you concentrate on just using your legs?

01:52:14.000 Yeah, different days, depending.

01:52:16.000 We do do a lot of core stuff, especially recently.

01:52:19.000 Probably the last year or so, we've been doing a lot more with the core.

01:52:23.000 Legs is a huge one.

01:52:25.000 Your legs carry you pretty much the whole way.

01:52:27.000 Do you run hills?

01:52:29.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:52:29.000 I mean, I live in Henderson, so it's like, you know...

01:52:32.000 Right, a lot of hills.

01:52:33.000 But legs is one of the biggest.

01:52:37.000 Just even my movement, like the way you move, too.

01:52:40.000 A lot of times I'll notice I'll be too, you know, up on the balls on my feet or I'll be too flat on my heels.

01:52:47.000 So, you know, I think that came from wrestling a little bit.

01:52:50.000 The stances are different.

01:52:51.000 But it's just...

01:52:53.000 Rounding out me as an individual is going to round out me as a fighter, which is just going to make it bigger and better.

01:53:00.000 Do you watch fights outside of MMA? Do you watch kickboxing?

01:53:03.000 100%.

01:53:04.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:53:04.000 What do you like to watch?

01:53:05.000 Love them.

01:53:06.000 I mean, I watch a lot of the big boxing fights, especially.

01:53:09.000 I barely—I only got to see, like, little clips and pieces of the Broner and— I was paying more attention to his arguments with that rapper kid, that 6ix9ine. 0.97

01:53:18.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:53:19.000 Jamie and I were going back and forth. 0.99

01:53:20.000 What the fuck is wrong with Adrian Broner that he's entertaining this the week of the fight, talking shit on Instagram? 0.99

01:53:25.000 I think they were just doing their thing, making media. 1.00

01:53:28.000 I think it was bullshit because he came out to 6ix9ine's song and then 6ix9ine kind of shouted it out for him. 0.87

01:53:34.000 Adrian Broner came out to 6ix9ine's song? 0.97

01:53:36.000 Yeah, he came out to the song during the fight.

01:53:38.000 I haven't seen the video yet.

01:53:39.000 I gotta go back and listen.

01:53:40.000 Yeah, go on 6ix9ine's Instagram.

01:53:42.000 He posted it up.

01:53:43.000 That is hilarious.

01:53:43.000 So 6ix9ine changed his tune, now he likes Broner?

01:53:46.000 I mean, look at it.

01:53:47.000 He was shouting, go Broner.

01:53:48.000 That's actually a smart move for Broner.

01:53:49.000 I mean, they did their thing.

01:53:50.000 That's a smart move, man.

01:53:52.000 He actually, you know, Broner's a...

01:53:56.000 I mean, he did his thing in that fight, too.

01:53:58.000 He outworked Jesse Vargas.

01:53:59.000 That's hard to do.

01:54:00.000 I heard he beat the hell out of him after eight rounds.

01:54:03.000 He beat the hell out of him for the last four.

01:54:05.000 I have to watch it.

01:54:06.000 I got to record it at home.

01:54:08.000 I wanted to watch your fight and Frankie's fight and David Branch, man.

01:54:14.000 Knocking out Tiago Santos like that. 0.99

01:54:16.000 Holy shit. 1.00

01:54:17.000 Branch is tough. 1.00

01:54:18.000 He's a bad motherfucker, dude. 1.00

01:54:19.000 People sleep on branch because he lost to Luke Rockhold. 1.00

01:54:21.000 Luke Rockhold is a fucking beast. 1.00

01:54:24.000 Especially on top. 1.00

01:54:25.000 Oh, his top game is brutal.

01:54:27.000 He got Weidman down on the ground.

01:54:29.000 By the way...

01:54:31.000 Luke Rockhold, when he fought Weidman, had staph.

01:54:34.000 Really? 1.00

01:54:34.000 Yeah, he was going through his fucking antibiotics. 1.00

01:54:36.000 He was two weeks out. 1.00

01:54:37.000 He's in serious fucking IV antibiotics, the whole deal. 0.99

01:54:41.000 He was really hurting. 0.99

01:54:42.000 Man, and that's no joke.

01:54:44.000 Crazy.

01:54:45.000 After that fight with Tony, I was out for six weeks.

01:54:47.000 I couldn't do anything.

01:54:48.000 I was...

01:54:49.000 I got staph twice, but I got it once and they caught it real early when I got it.

01:54:54.000 The second time barely even affected me because it caught it so early.

01:54:59.000 But the first time I got it, I got on the heavy medication and man, I was like...

01:55:05.000 Dizzy.

01:55:05.000 And I wasn't even training.

01:55:07.000 I stopped training after I got on the medication.

01:55:09.000 I just hung around.

01:55:11.000 And I was just like, Jesus, the first couple of days on the medication, I'm dizzy.

01:55:15.000 I'm like, I feel terrible.

01:55:16.000 It destroys your body.

01:55:18.000 I mean, especially when you talk to so many microbiologists that tell you what it does to the gut florist.

01:55:24.000 I didn't know back then either.

01:55:25.000 I got it back in like 2002. I didn't know shit about gut flora back then. 0.89

01:55:32.000 I literally didn't know what it was. 0.92

01:55:34.000 So I just took the medication, just ate what I always ate, and took some vitamins like I always did, and that was it.

01:55:40.000 But I was like, wow, I'm like lightheaded.

01:55:42.000 Yeah, yeah, no, it's no joke.

01:55:44.000 You know, the body, it's... 1.00

01:55:46.000 That shit scares the fuck out of me. 1.00

01:55:48.000 MRSA and staff and those fucking infections, they scare the shit out of me, man. 1.00

01:55:53.000 Yeah, anything from within you, it's kind of scary, yeah. 1.00

01:55:56.000 It's just, those fucking little monsters just want to take over your body and eat it. 1.00

01:56:00.000 You know, that's what it is. 1.00

01:56:00.000 There's more of them than there are of us. 1.00

01:56:02.000 I mean, there's more bacteria in your body than there are human cells.

01:56:06.000 Yeah, I mean, it's crazy to think about.

01:56:09.000 But it just...

01:56:12.000 It's all about balance.

01:56:13.000 You know what I mean?

01:56:14.000 Are you careful with your diet?

01:56:16.000 Do you take in a lot of probiotics?

01:56:18.000 Yeah.

01:56:19.000 Especially when I'm in camp, I'm very, very careful.

01:56:21.000 What do you eat?

01:56:23.000 Recently, I've been going a lot more keto.

01:56:25.000 A little bit.

01:56:27.000 I still eat carbs, obviously, because I have to to have that explosion still, I feel like.

01:56:32.000 I just think you have to eat more carbs and you probably still stay ketogenic. 0.99

01:56:37.000 I think that when people look at carbs and they say, like, you only have 25 to 50 grams of carbs during the day, that's great if you're not doing two-a-days and fucking wrestling and running hills and shit. 0.96

01:56:49.000 Your body probably needs more carbohydrates than that. 0.97

01:56:51.000 Yeah, I mean, definitely.

01:56:53.000 And that's kind of where I try and supplement it, especially before I try and eat more carbs.

01:56:59.000 And then I kind of cut them back towards the end of the days.

01:57:01.000 What are you eating?

01:57:03.000 A lot of chickens.

01:57:04.000 Because I can't eat fish or shellfish.

01:57:07.000 Are you allergic to it?

01:57:09.000 Yeah, completely.

01:57:10.000 Oh, really?

01:57:11.000 Wow.

01:57:12.000 Are you allergic to lobster?

01:57:13.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:57:14.000 Shit! 1.00

01:57:16.000 I mean, I just convinced myself it tastes like shit anyway. 1.00

01:57:18.000 Oh, but it doesn't. 0.99

01:57:19.000 I mean, I can look at it.

01:57:22.000 Lobster with melted butter?

01:57:23.000 Ooh! 0.96

01:57:24.000 Tastes like melted butter, huh?

01:57:25.000 Oh, it's so good.

01:57:26.000 Lobster with melted butter.

01:57:27.000 I'll just eat the melted butter on some grass-fed steak. 0.98

01:57:31.000 Well, that's pretty fucking good, too. 0.96

01:57:33.000 I love to cook, too. 0.93

01:57:34.000 Do you?

01:57:34.000 I love to cook.

01:57:35.000 I mean, I think there's a real art to cooking, too.

01:57:39.000 That could probably be me in another life.

01:57:41.000 A chef?

01:57:42.000 You were saying that.

01:57:42.000 Yeah, 100%.

01:57:43.000 It's a heart to it, right?

01:57:46.000 Yeah, I would love to.

01:57:47.000 Eventually, maybe.

01:57:49.000 I cook a lot.

01:57:50.000 I love cooking.

01:57:50.000 It makes me feel good, man.

01:57:52.000 I like knowing that I prepared a meal.

01:57:54.000 Put it together, it's a nice thing, especially if it's healthy.

01:57:57.000 And especially when you...

01:57:58.000 I don't get people that are...

01:58:01.000 I mean, I don't want to say I don't get vegans.

01:58:04.000 Like, I have a lot of friends that are vegan, and, you know, I never kind of doubt.

01:58:10.000 But the fact that they don't want to eat meat for...

01:58:13.000 There are certain people, like my brother tried to do this, too.

01:58:16.000 He's like, he don't want to eat meat because he's, like, afraid of the animal, you know, or...

01:58:21.000 Feel bad for the animals.

01:58:23.000 You said it.

01:58:24.000 We've got more not-us-cells than we do-us-cells. 1.00

01:58:28.000 We're all the same shit. 1.00

01:58:30.000 Even the animals, we are the same. 1.00

01:58:35.000 They're the same as the plants, too.

01:58:36.000 I don't want animal cruelty.

01:58:38.000 Of course.

01:58:39.000 The most noble aspects of becoming a vegan is to avoid animal cruelty and factory farming.

01:58:46.000 And I think that in that way, I agree with them. 1.00

01:58:49.000 The real problem with vegans is that There's a certain percentage of them that are just fucking idiots. 1.00

01:58:55.000 And it's just a certain percentage of any group of people. 1.00

01:58:58.000 It's not most vegans.

01:58:59.000 Most vegans are kind people. 1.00

01:59:01.000 It's a certain percentage of them that are using being a vegan as an excuse to be a fucking asshole. 1.00

01:59:06.000 And that's what it is. 1.00

01:59:07.000 And they have this thing.

01:59:08.000 And most of them use vegan in their screen name.

01:59:11.000 They always have like...

01:59:12.000 Veganism? 0.63

01:59:13.000 Yeah.

01:59:13.000 Well, vegans are part of their identity, and then they attack people who aren't vegans.

01:59:18.000 There's a few people that I follow that I literally go to their Twitter page and just watch them attack people who aren't vegans.

01:59:24.000 Yeah, I mean, it's crazy to watch.

01:59:26.000 It's just like, that's all they do.

01:59:27.000 And like you said, that's why I don't want to say, like, I don't understand vegans, because that's just people in general.

01:59:32.000 You're going to get that at any walk. 1.00

01:59:35.000 People are going to be fucking idiots, isn't it? 1.00

01:59:37.000 It's almost like, when I've said that veganism is sort of a religion, it's an ideology in the sense of the way some people practice it, that they want to go after. 1.00

01:59:47.000 There's some people that are Catholic that hate Protestants, right?

01:59:50.000 They think the Protestants are the enemy.

01:59:52.000 And this is just, I mean, this is obviously something that went on for a long time in human history.

01:59:56.000 But I think it's just...

01:59:58.000 Groups of people get real tribal. 0.99

02:00:00.000 And then, you know, the fucking Yankees hate the Red Sox, and this is just how it goes. 1.00

02:00:04.000 And these people just decide that you're on the other team, so fuck you. 1.00

02:00:08.000 And no one can see any middle ground. 1.00

02:00:12.000 You know, there's this guy from this restaurant, Antler from Toronto, that I had on last week.

02:00:17.000 And these people are protesting his restaurant, these vegans.

02:00:20.000 I've seen that.

02:00:21.000 Yeah, I've thought of it.

02:00:22.000 And then they want him to put a sign in the window saying something like, no animals should die so that we live and it's not our right to take their lives.

02:00:30.000 And so they protest every week until he does this.

02:00:34.000 Well, he's not going to do that. 0.99

02:00:35.000 So what the fuck are you doing? 0.99

02:00:36.000 What is this? 1.00

02:00:38.000 It's just assholes. 1.00

02:00:39.000 There's a battle. 1.00

02:00:39.000 It's just assholes. 1.00

02:00:40.000 There's an ideological battle going on. 0.99

02:00:43.000 It's not a well-examined, objective thing, in my opinion.

02:00:51.000 Yeah, but it's so natural, though.

02:00:52.000 Like you said, it's almost like communities.

02:00:54.000 Mm-hmm.

02:00:57.000 You have your thoughts, I've got my thoughts, and we are part of two separate communities.

02:01:02.000 And it's just like with anything else.

02:01:04.000 I think that integration between the two and that balance is the most key to everybody, really.

02:01:11.000 It kind of will grow everybody.

02:01:13.000 The bounty hunters can learn something from the vegans just as much as the vegans can learn from the bounty hunters.

02:01:19.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:01:19.000 Oh, I think so, too.

02:01:20.000 And I think that...

02:01:21.000 Really, the problem is when people don't want to hear the other side, they want to shout people down, they're not willing to listen, and there's common ground across the board.

02:01:30.000 And some of it probably is just learned, I think, a lot about how you grew up, and I think it's important to understand that.

02:01:38.000 Like I said, just to go back to my childhood, that's the way I grew up, and that's what I understood, but when I look at...

02:01:46.000 Like my dad.

02:01:47.000 My dad didn't have his dad.

02:01:49.000 And he was out the house by 15. And I try and put myself there sometimes, being a 15-year-old kid that didn't have a place to go.

02:02:00.000 Like, what are you going to do?

02:02:02.000 And the only people you see around you is drug dealers.

02:02:07.000 So, like a lot of it, I give credit to him for sticking around for me because I would have no...

02:02:13.000 I would be hitting people over time to hit.

02:02:14.000 Right, right. 0.98

02:02:15.000 You know what I mean?

02:02:16.000 And that's why people do it.

02:02:18.000 Because those people that are doing that are just like you and me.

02:02:21.000 Everybody's...

02:02:21.000 100%.

02:02:21.000 We're all just human beings.

02:02:23.000 Yeah.

02:02:23.000 We vary genetically, but we vary more by our environment and how much love we get.

02:02:28.000 That's a big part of it.

02:02:30.000 It's just the culture.

02:02:34.000 I think it stems from one culture being separated from others.

02:02:40.000 And not having that integration, then you get that, like, even more of a disconnect.

02:02:45.000 And then once you get even bigger, then, you know, it's all, like, downhill.

02:02:49.000 And you get more insecurity, which leads to more tribalism.

02:02:52.000 And the whole thing is just, it's so disappointing that people still operate like this.

02:02:56.000 But I think people are opening up to that more now than before.

02:02:59.000 I just think it's a slow process.

02:03:01.000 Yeah, slowly but surely.

02:03:02.000 Slowly but surely.

02:03:03.000 We're still working at it.

02:03:04.000 Yeah, I mean, look at what, you know, we were talking before about the Rosa Parks picture out there.

02:03:08.000 That wasn't that long ago, man.

02:03:09.000 No, no, it really wasn't.

02:03:11.000 It was not that long ago.

02:03:11.000 No, it really wasn't.

02:03:12.000 And that'd be the thing.

02:03:15.000 There's certain white people, too, that just be like, all right, just get over it already.

02:03:20.000 And it's like, come on.

02:03:21.000 Because they didn't have to get over it.

02:03:23.000 Exactly.

02:03:23.000 That's what it is.

02:03:24.000 You don't understand it.

02:03:25.000 They didn't experience it.

02:03:29.000 And you don't even, like, take the time to try and understand.

02:03:33.000 Well, they're tribal, too. 1.00

02:03:34.000 They talk to other people that say the same shit. 1.00

02:03:36.000 And, like, yeah, well... 1.00

02:03:37.000 And they'll just start rattling off statistics about the instances of crime in the black community and how the Asians don't do this, but the blacks do. 1.00

02:03:44.000 It's like... 1.00

02:03:45.000 It's fucking cultural. 0.99

02:03:46.000 If you don't think it's cultural, you haven't been around enough people. 1.00

02:03:49.000 And it does not go back a lot of generations.

02:03:50.000 Like you said, Rosa Parks was not very long ago.

02:03:53.000 My dad didn't have his dad.

02:03:54.000 He didn't have that person to teach him what not to do and what to do.

02:03:59.000 That's a hard road, especially for a young...

02:04:02.000 Like you go back earlier, young guys get delusional real quick.

02:04:05.000 They feel invincible.

02:04:06.000 They feel like, oh, I can do this and I'm never going to get caught.

02:04:09.000 You don't have that voice of reason to tell you...

02:04:13.000 Right from wrong when you're that kind of age.

02:04:16.000 And it's because he didn't have his dad.

02:04:17.000 And then why didn't he have his dad?

02:04:18.000 Because he didn't have his dad.

02:04:20.000 You know what I mean?

02:04:20.000 And that only goes back two, three generations.

02:04:22.000 Well, what's crazy is you're talking about 1865 is when slavery was abolished.

02:04:27.000 So we're talking about a small amount of time in human history where there haven't been slaves.

02:04:32.000 So all your isolation when you felt as a kid, when you felt separate from the people that were in the miles that were higher than yours, think about That times a hundred is if you were a slave.

02:04:44.000 Maybe a million. 0.98

02:04:46.000 An insurmountable gap between a slave that has no chance of ever not being a slave and someone who can go to school wherever they want and travel abroad and do whatever the fuck they want. 0.99

02:04:57.000 The idea that some of these white people think that these people should just get over it. 0.99

02:05:02.000 The amount of time is so fucking short. 0.98

02:05:04.000 You're talking about... 0.94

02:05:05.000 We just had Black Panther.

02:05:07.000 We just had Black Panther.

02:05:10.000 At least it beat Avatar.

02:05:11.000 It's beaten everything so far.

02:05:12.000 Isn't it like one of the number one biggest movies of all time?

02:05:17.000 That should help.

02:05:19.000 Believe it or not.

02:05:20.000 I really think things like that will help.

02:05:22.000 It was a beautiful movie and it was a beautiful movie to describe even like...

02:05:27.000 When you say 1865, I feel like we're so disconnected from even that.

02:05:32.000 And this is, I've talked to a lot of people about this, the difference between being called a black American and an African American.

02:05:38.000 You know, I hate being called an African American.

02:05:40.000 That's what everybody says.

02:05:42.000 I know.

02:05:43.000 What bothers it?

02:05:44.000 To me, it makes you seem, because you put me and Francis next to each other, Francis is an African American.

02:05:51.000 You know what I mean?

02:05:51.000 I see what you're saying.

02:05:52.000 He's from Africa.

02:05:53.000 He has ties to Africa.

02:05:55.000 You know who else is an African American?

02:05:56.000 Elon Musk.

02:05:57.000 Yeah, I mean, yeah.

02:05:59.000 For real.

02:06:01.000 But I think even more now, it kind of like...

02:06:06.000 Why can't we be...

02:06:08.000 Black comes in so many different shades.

02:06:10.000 You know what I mean?

02:06:11.000 As does African, obviously. 1.00

02:06:12.000 So maybe black Americans is a better way to put it.

02:06:15.000 But Africans have ties to Africa.

02:06:16.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:06:17.000 Where it's not slavery.

02:06:18.000 I feel we should have our ties in America.

02:06:22.000 I should be proud to just be an American, not be called an African American.

02:06:27.000 Well, it's with every generation.

02:06:28.000 I mean, it's going to take a long time before we just abandon all this nonsense and just treat people based on who they are as a human being. 1.00

02:06:35.000 But my grandparents came from Italy and they were treated like dog shit. 0.99

02:06:40.000 I mean, my grandfather always talked about the racism that he encountered when he came over. 0.99

02:06:44.000 From Italy to America, and they didn't think of Italians as white people.

02:06:49.000 Now, they think of Italians as white people.

02:06:51.000 100%, yeah.

02:06:52.000 And Mexicans are experiencing that.

02:06:54.000 Like, you know, if you're from Spain, you're basically white. 0.97

02:06:58.000 Like, nobody thinks of a guy from Spain as being, like, you don't think of them the same way you think of Mexicans. 0.99

02:07:05.000 But one day, all that shit will go away. 0.99

02:07:08.000 One day we'll get past this, whether it's... 0.99

02:07:11.000 Who knows how many generations it'll take, but I think it's changing now because of the internet.

02:07:15.000 I think there's definitely more hate groups that consolidate, and they get together, and they live in an echo chamber online.

02:07:23.000 They talk, and they agree with each other.

02:07:26.000 You see it on Twitter, and Twitter's trying to stop that, and maybe that's misguided because maybe it strengthens it, but I think that ultimately...

02:07:33.000 This ability to exchange information is gonna allow more and more people to compare notes and understand that there's no benefit to thinking of people as being inferior or superior or better or worse.

02:07:49.000 We're just all different, but we're all human.

02:07:51.000 We're all just human.

02:07:52.000 We're all the same.

02:07:53.000 Really, you see that when you see people.

02:07:57.000 You can really see somebody.

02:07:58.000 When you really know them.

02:07:59.000 You really see them.

02:08:02.000 We're literally all the same.

02:08:03.000 But all different, too, because that's one of the beautiful things is that you see these little different aspects of individuals' personalities.

02:08:11.000 But to lump people in a group, oh, you're a Chinese guy. 1.00

02:08:14.000 I know what the fuck you are. 1.00

02:08:15.000 You're this. 1.00

02:08:16.000 Oh, you're an African guy. 1.00

02:08:17.000 I don't know who the fuck you are. 1.00

02:08:18.000 You're this. 1.00

02:08:19.000 No, that's nonsense.

02:08:20.000 Yeah.

02:08:20.000 There's a broad spectrum in each and every classification, but at the end of the day, we're all the same thing, because we're all just people.

02:08:28.000 Yeah, 100%.

02:08:29.000 I mean, it's just, when you talk about having, like, pride in it, I feel like it helps a little bit more if I identify as a black American, you know, instead of like an African American. 0.72

02:08:43.000 I see what you're saying.

02:08:43.000 You know what I mean?

02:08:44.000 I feel like it's a little more...

02:08:46.000 You know, I just look different.

02:08:48.000 You know what I mean?

02:08:48.000 Like, I'm more integrated, and it would give me more pride to be that.

02:08:54.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:08:55.000 And I think that's still...

02:08:57.000 We're obviously all the same, and there needs to be integration, but you still have to have some type of identity.

02:09:03.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:09:04.000 I know what you're saying.

02:09:04.000 Yeah.

02:09:05.000 I mean...

02:09:05.000 And I think the movie in itself did a good job.

02:09:09.000 I just went back to Black Panther. 0.80

02:09:11.000 I think it did a great job in describing the differences between the Black community and the African community.

02:09:19.000 You know what I mean?

02:09:20.000 Or Africa itself. 0.62

02:09:23.000 Because you get that anger.

02:09:28.000 You know what I mean?

02:09:29.000 That's like the stereotype is like the angry black man, but some of it stems from not knowing where you're from and not having that core identity.

02:09:41.000 And I feel like we can just do that again here in America as black Americans instead of... 1.00

02:09:46.000 Yeah, I hope what it represents is a meter to register that racism is dying.

02:09:53.000 And that this is also people...

02:09:56.000 And there's a lot of white people that are really going way out of their way to go see it because they wanted to show everybody that they're not racist.

02:10:03.000 But I think that's good too. 0.99

02:10:05.000 I think ultimately it's showing that this is something that people recognize as a stupid problem and we should get past it. 1.00

02:10:13.000 It took goddamn long enough. 1.00

02:10:15.000 It took long enough. 0.97

02:10:16.000 But it's not done.

02:10:17.000 We're probably going to be telling this to our grandchildren someday.

02:10:19.000 Yeah, 100%.

02:10:20.000 And they're still going to be experiencing some of it. 0.91

02:10:22.000 And then there's going to be something new comes out, and you're like, God damn, are we just now doing this? 0.97

02:10:26.000 That's the way it's just going to be. 0.87

02:10:28.000 But for me, personally, it's just...

02:10:32.000 Because every kid wants to be a superhero.

02:10:35.000 There wasn't a whole lot of them.

02:10:37.000 You could be half vampire and be Blade.

02:10:39.000 Yeah, but Blade was like a hitman.

02:10:42.000 It goes back to what you see around me.

02:10:45.000 If I only see the drug dealers and every... 0.95

02:10:49.000 There was never a black superhero. 1.00

02:10:50.000 And I was like, alright, well shit, alright. 1.00

02:10:53.000 We can hang up there. 1.00

02:10:55.000 And it portrayed us as scientists.

02:10:58.000 If you're one of those white, get over it guys. 1.00

02:11:02.000 That doesn't register for you because they're all white. 1.00

02:11:04.000 Every fucking superhero. 1.00

02:11:05.000 Batman, Spider-Man. 1.00

02:11:06.000 Even the Hulk is white at first.

02:11:08.000 And I get it from a lot of I mean, it's just culture.

02:11:14.000 You know what I mean?

02:11:15.000 And it's not better or worse than one thing or another.

02:11:18.000 You know, there's Hawaiian culture.

02:11:22.000 It's just culture.

02:11:23.000 And that needs to be celebrated, too, because the more you celebrate culture, the more you can integrate between...

02:11:30.000 All of them.

02:11:31.000 Right, and then there's the real problem.

02:11:32.000 I don't want those cultures to go away.

02:11:34.000 I was in Chinatown in Boston this weekend.

02:11:37.000 We went and ate dinner at 2 o'clock in the morning.

02:11:39.000 It's a Chinese restaurant.

02:11:40.000 It's Chinatown, right, Jamie?

02:11:42.000 That place was Chinatown. 0.99

02:11:44.000 They got fucking Alaskan king crabs in a fish tank. 1.00

02:11:48.000 How the fuck did you even get that here? 1.00

02:11:49.000 It's still alive. 0.99

02:11:50.000 All these fish on top of each other.

02:11:53.000 They pull the fish out of the tank and cook it up for you.

02:11:55.000 I mean, it's like...

02:11:57.000 They barely speak English.

02:11:58.000 I mean, this is their culture.

02:12:00.000 And I want that to still exist, too.

02:12:03.000 You know, I mean, I just want them to be accepted.

02:12:06.000 100%.

02:12:06.000 I mean, and that's the beauty about it, and I think you need to keep that alive.

02:12:10.000 You know, there's two different spectrums to it.

02:12:11.000 There's the person that's just like, oh, just go ahead and get over it.

02:12:14.000 And there's this person that's just like, okay, well, you don't even have...

02:12:18.000 Like, they don't want even, like, I didn't...

02:12:23.000 Acknowledge your culture, you know what I mean?

02:12:24.000 They just want to like just shun it or just not, you know, just put it in the closet somewhere and you know that that's Almost the it's the opposite, but it's just as bad I was talking to a buddy mine who lives on the Big Island about that He's a white guy and he lives in Hawaii and he grew up in Hawaii And I said did you experience a lot of racism against white people? 0.99

02:12:44.000 He's like no because I'm not a fucking asshole And I said, that's what it is, right? 0.99

02:12:48.000 He's like, yeah, man. 1.00

02:12:49.000 He goes, you can't be a white guy coming over here trying to push your mainland culture. 1.00

02:12:54.000 He's like, this is the fucking culture, dude. 0.99

02:12:55.000 He goes, if you just accept the culture the way it is out here, he goes, they're not racist. 1.00

02:12:59.000 They'll take you.

02:13:00.000 You're good.

02:13:00.000 You're going to run into a few, but for the most part...

02:13:03.000 You're gonna run into a few everywhere you go.

02:13:05.000 Go back to it. 1.00

02:13:07.000 People are fucking idiots in every walks of it. 1.00

02:13:09.000 But for the most part, as long as you're not an asshole, you're good. 1.00

02:13:12.000 It's the same way across the board. 0.99

02:13:15.000 I've kind of realized that as I'm getting older.

02:13:17.000 Because before, I just thought, you know, we just...

02:13:21.000 What we are.

02:13:22.000 You know what I mean?

02:13:22.000 I've got family members that only will ever see Detroit.

02:13:26.000 They will only ever see those same blocks.

02:13:28.000 They will only ever see the same people.

02:13:30.000 And that's just what you think it is.

02:13:32.000 And it's just like, no, there's so much more.

02:13:35.000 And it's not that different.

02:13:37.000 Like, you think it's different.

02:13:40.000 It's different, but you know what I'm saying?

02:13:43.000 It's not alien.

02:13:45.000 It's just different.

02:13:47.000 It's not better, it's not worse.

02:13:48.000 One of the things that I really enjoyed about traveling so much with the UFC is you got to see all these different cultures and you got to see all these different styles of life that these people live in.

02:13:57.000 And you kind of put it all together and it just gives you...

02:14:01.000 I think it's one of the best things about traveling is that it gives you this more rounded perspective.

02:14:07.000 If you lived in Italy, you'd be like one of these people. 1.00

02:14:10.000 This is how they live.

02:14:11.000 They live like this.

02:14:12.000 If you lived in Dublin, you'd be like this.

02:14:15.000 This is their style of living.

02:14:17.000 Yeah, and it's important to acknowledge, I think, all those different styles, too, you know, of living.

02:14:23.000 And I think if you really want to like cure racism in America and all that, it's just being open about it and just talking and, you know, people understanding other people's upbringings and what they went through and what they do, because that makes you understand it more.

02:14:39.000 If you try and just shun it away or just say, if you even bring up the word black or white or anything like people get, you know, you kind of see it sometimes people get tense and it's just like, just be honest about it and just be open about it.

02:14:52.000 and that will make it go away.

02:14:54.000 It's It's not, you know, shun it and it'll go away.

02:14:58.000 Some people don't want to be uncomfortable. 0.99

02:14:59.000 They don't want to talk about uncomfortable shit. 0.99

02:15:00.000 So if something comes up that's like, well, you know, as a black man, you're like, oh, here we go. 1.00

02:15:05.000 Here we go.

02:15:06.000 I didn't do it, okay?

02:15:07.000 I never had a slave, okay?

02:15:11.000 And you're like, oh, alright, man.

02:15:12.000 You're just super uncomfortable with being uncomfortable.

02:15:14.000 Yeah, it's like, what for? 1.00

02:15:16.000 I think that makes you more the asshole there. 0.99

02:15:19.000 Well, if you're talking to a human being, if you really want to have a conversation with them, you want to know their actual experience. 0.99

02:15:24.000 And if their experience is as a Puerto Rican that came from Puerto Rico, a lot of Puerto Ricans feel super disconnected with the United States because they're not really United States citizens, but they are.

02:15:35.000 It's like a weird thing.

02:15:36.000 It's kind of like it's not really a state, but it's sort of protected by the United States, and so they're disconnected.

02:15:43.000 On the East Coast, growing up with Puerto Ricans, they have a weird alienation. 1.00

02:15:49.000 If you don't want to talk to them and you don't want to hear about that from them, that's fine, but you're just going to miss out on that part of what life is for them.

02:15:57.000 You're never going to get it.

02:15:58.000 Yeah, and all the things that they bring to it, and the food that they bring, the different arts.

02:16:03.000 You know what I mean?

02:16:04.000 The different styles of fighting that they bring, the different dances.

02:16:07.000 Everything about the culture, you're going to miss if you try and just shy away from it.

02:16:13.000 Mixed martial arts is a perfect example of all these different cultures coming together in this one boiling pot.

02:16:20.000 Yeah, I mean, that's one of the most beautiful things about it.

02:16:25.000 I can go over to Ireland and fight a Russian in Ireland, and it's different than going down to Brazil and fighting a Brazilian, or something like that. 0.83

02:16:35.000 But at the core of it, it's fighting.

02:16:38.000 It's just different styles of being able to do it, but everybody does it.

02:16:41.000 What's crazy to me is how when you go to these other places like Brazil or Ireland or something like that, how rabid they are for their local people.

02:16:51.000 When you're fighting someone who's Brazilian in Brazil, I mean, maybe it's relaxed a little bit now, but I was there for some of the earlier UFCs there.

02:16:59.000 It's wild.

02:17:00.000 And I made the mistake of flipping off the crowd at the weigh-ins.

02:17:05.000 Were you fighting down there?

02:17:07.000 Francisco Trinaldo.

02:17:09.000 Three-time Brazilian kickboxing champion.

02:17:14.000 Monstrous.

02:17:15.000 That was at the height of his...

02:17:17.000 He was on a seven-fight win streak.

02:17:18.000 He was feeling good.

02:17:19.000 He was kind of at his last run, too.

02:17:22.000 He was in tough at a 185 pound, too.

02:17:25.000 It's a big 55er. 0.86

02:17:26.000 Hit like a truck, too. 0.98

02:17:28.000 But, you know, before the weigh-ins, they scream it, you're gonna die. 0.80

02:17:31.000 And I'm like, alright. 1.00

02:17:32.000 You know, I'm a shit-talker, so you talk that shit to me. 1.00

02:17:36.000 I'm giving it back to you. 1.00

02:17:38.000 Look, I'm loving it.

02:17:40.000 Look at Dewey, too.

02:17:43.000 I'm loving it, but they were rabid for that one.

02:17:45.000 People were throwing stuff at me as I was walking out.

02:17:49.000 I kind of just threw my headphones in and just went to town.

02:17:53.000 They got a lot of pride in Brazil, man.

02:17:54.000 They love it.

02:17:55.000 But around the world, a lot of the...

02:17:58.000 Because I think they truly...

02:18:00.000 Appreciate the art of what they do.

02:18:03.000 And it is a representation of the culture there.

02:18:06.000 For sure with Jiu-Jitsu.

02:18:08.000 For sure.

02:18:08.000 When they get somebody that's Damian Maia, they're going to stand behind that man because he represents the art of it.

02:18:16.000 Or just MMA in general.

02:18:17.000 They appreciate the art of it.

02:18:19.000 Russians appreciate the art of what they do.

02:18:22.000 The Sambo. 0.95

02:18:22.000 It's so deep-rooted in their culture. 0.95

02:18:25.000 And Americans do too.

02:18:27.000 For the most part, it's just...

02:18:29.000 We don't get as behind our own fighters, I think. 0.98

02:18:32.000 I think, yeah, we have a certain amount of loyalty, but this is such a goddamn ambitious country. 0.97

02:18:39.000 We love winning. 0.98

02:18:40.000 You gotta win. 0.99

02:18:41.000 Get some money, shine, talk some shit, and win. 0.99

02:18:46.000 That's it. 0.99

02:18:47.000 Well, listen, man, you're doing all those things right now.

02:18:49.000 I'm trying to.

02:18:50.000 Slowly but surely.

02:18:52.000 I think this is a good conversation too because I think people understand you more now.

02:18:56.000 Get a better sense of who you are.

02:18:58.000 I got a couple of layers to me.

02:19:01.000 You do.

02:19:02.000 Thank you, Kevin.

02:19:03.000 I really appreciate it, man.

02:19:04.000 I really enjoyed this conversation. 1.00

02:19:06.000 Alright, that's it, fuckers. 1.00

The Joe Rogan Experience - June 08, 2010

JRE MMA Show #24 with Kevin Lee

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