The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #25 with Michael Chandler

00:00:03.000 Four.

00:00:04.000 Three.

00:00:04.000 Two.

00:00:07.000 Boom.

00:00:07.000 And we're live.

00:00:08.000 How are you, brother?

00:00:09.000 I'm great, man.

00:00:10.000 Living the dream.

00:00:10.000 Great to have you in here, man.

00:00:11.000 Thank you.

00:00:12.000 Great to be here.

00:00:13.000 Yeah, I've been wanting to have you on for a long time, man.

00:00:15.000 I've been following your career forever, and I've been a big fan forever, so...

00:00:20.000 It's nice to be able to sit down with you.

00:00:21.000 I know, man.

00:00:22.000 This is awesome.

00:00:23.000 I've been a big fan of yours, obviously, and the podcast for a long time.

00:00:26.000 So to be in here, get the tour, check out your awesome man warehouse.

00:00:30.000 I think every man's dream.

00:00:31.000 This is an elaborate plot to convince me to get you to join the UFC. That's all this is.

00:00:36.000 Right away?

00:00:37.000 We want to go straight to it?

00:00:38.000 Okay.

00:00:41.000 All of this could be yours.

00:00:42.000 I appreciate Rory McDonald going over there.

00:00:45.000 I know he did what he had to do, but even that one bums me out.

00:00:48.000 I want to see you fight the best guys in the world, and I think right now, over in Bellator, you have very good competition, but I don't think you have the best guys, and I think you're one of the best guys.

00:01:01.000 I think I wake up every morning and think I'm the best guy in the world, too.

00:01:04.000 I think that's the way to think if you want to be the best guy in the world.

00:01:07.000 That's the way I've been thinking for a while.

00:01:08.000 Not always in my career.

00:01:09.000 I mean, I've had some losses where I've, you know, had temporary lapses of confidence and whatnot, whether it be my training or my abilities in myself or my thoughts and my abilities in myself.

00:01:18.000 But, I mean, where I'm at right now, firing on all cylinders, I feel like everything's working.

00:01:24.000 Do you feel like those moments where you haven't been at your best, where you've had lapses, and then you felt those dark moments, do those motivate you to never let that happen again?

00:01:36.000 Yeah, I mean, I think I actually went through, for those of the people that don't know, I went through three losses in a row.

00:01:41.000 I mean, that's rough.

00:01:42.000 I mean, the first loss to Eddie Alvarez was a tough split decision.

00:01:45.000 A lot of people thought I won.

00:01:48.000 So you kind of get this, you know, oh, woe is me attitude, which I never had really had before.

00:01:52.000 And all of a sudden it's like, why did this happen to me?

00:01:54.000 Then had a back injury and then fought Will Brooks when I shouldn't have on one week, basically one week of training, which led to another loss, which led to another lack of confidence and then another loss.

00:02:04.000 So I went through that tough, dark time, you know, and I think there were certain aspects of it that it was me taking the sport for granted.

00:02:13.000 It was me taking my abilities for granted.

00:02:15.000 And also just not taking extreme ownership of my mental state.

00:02:20.000 Like realizing that I might be the hardest worker in the gym.

00:02:23.000 I am the hardest worker in the gym.

00:02:24.000 At every gym I go to I'm the hardest worker.

00:02:26.000 I live life right.

00:02:27.000 I do the right things.

00:02:29.000 But if you're not constantly taking extreme ownership of your mental state, of your confidence, your self-image, I think a healthy self-image is the most important component of being successful in life.

00:02:40.000 And I just, I wasn't taking care of that aspect of my life.

00:02:42.000 So you were doing all the right things physically, but you weren't doing what you needed to do mentally?

00:02:47.000 Yeah.

00:02:47.000 I mean, I think I had never visualized until after that.

00:02:51.000 I mean, honestly, I come from a hard-working My mom and dad both worked two jobs.

00:02:57.000 My dad was a union carpenter, woke up at five in the morning, every single morning pulled himself up by his bootstraps.

00:03:03.000 Mom the same way, working two, three jobs, both of them to make sure that me and my brothers had every single advantage in life, whether it be wrestling camps, football camps, this, that, the other thing.

00:03:13.000 But we weren't exactly taught that, hey, You can go out in the world and do great things.

00:03:18.000 You can go out and you can be not just good but great and be a champion.

00:03:22.000 And I think I went into college wrestling and I might have told the coaches I wanted to be a national champion.

00:03:27.000 I might have told the reporters, all the people that I was supposed to, that I wanted to be a national champion.

00:03:31.000 But in my heart of hearts, I didn't truly believe it.

00:03:34.000 And I was.

00:03:35.000 You asked Tyron, you asked Ben.

00:03:38.000 Those guys took me under their wing because I was the hardest worker in the room.

00:03:41.000 And they said, man, this guy could be good.

00:03:43.000 But I didn't exactly believe in myself.

00:03:47.000 And now it's taken me almost until I'm 30 years old to really truly believe that I was put on this earth.

00:03:52.000 To do some amazing things.

00:03:54.000 And that there is no limits on myself.

00:03:55.000 And that there is no limits to my capabilities and my abilities.

00:03:58.000 So, I mean, I think we underestimate how important and how mental life is.

00:04:04.000 And not just in athletics.

00:04:05.000 Not just in fighting.

00:04:06.000 Not just in sports.

00:04:07.000 But I mean, in anything.

00:04:08.000 In business.

00:04:09.000 And just being a good person.

00:04:10.000 Just believing in yourself and having a healthy self-image.

00:04:13.000 Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

00:04:14.000 I think that's one of the most important things to life, but it's also really difficult to cultivate.

00:04:20.000 Oh, it is.

00:04:21.000 Well, I think, too, I mean, I'm very hard on myself, you know?

00:04:25.000 I mean, I think anybody who's successful is at least relatively hard on themselves, and I think I got to the point where I just started calling myself lazy.

00:04:32.000 You know, I wake up every morning And I think, Michael, you're being lazy if you don't do something today.

00:04:38.000 Listen to this podcast or watch this YouTube video or read this book or spend 10 minutes, 5 minutes, 30 minutes visualizing yourself.

00:04:46.000 In a cage or on a podium or having loads of wealth or having loads of influence, having loads of impact, having ridiculous amounts of success because until you actually see it in your mind's eye, you can't actually achieve it.

00:05:01.000 Or you're going to get to the point right on the cusp of about to be achieving it and you're going to have that cognitive dissonance where something pops up where you have the opportunity to break that barrier but you're going to find a way to sabotage yourself Because you don't truly believe that you deserve it.

00:05:14.000 And I did that numerous times in college.

00:05:16.000 There was times where I was beating top-ranked guys in the country and would somehow find a way to lose.

00:05:22.000 Because winning to me, being crazy successful to me, wasn't exactly...

00:05:27.000 It didn't exactly mesh with how I truly saw myself, you know?

00:05:32.000 And I think it's...

00:05:32.000 And I think I can look back on that, not with regret, but with that kind of...

00:05:37.000 I just educate myself.

00:05:38.000 And I look back and I can put myself at...

00:05:41.000 National duels against CP Slater, us versus Minnesota.

00:05:44.000 My team needed me to win.

00:05:45.000 He was ranked top five in the country.

00:05:47.000 I wasn't supposed to beat him.

00:05:48.000 I was up by two takedowns and somehow in the third period I lose the match.

00:05:51.000 And I can go back and see that in my mind and realize, okay, that was a time.

00:05:57.000 Let's respect that for what it is and let's use that as fuel for the future.

00:06:02.000 I mean, my loss to Eddie Alvarez was a lot of technical disappointment.

00:06:08.000 Things I did wrong technically.

00:06:10.000 Losses to Will Rooks were things I did wrong technically.

00:06:13.000 But mentally I wasn't there as well.

00:06:15.000 And then I came back with a vengeance and then won.

00:06:18.000 And now I've won six in my last seven.

00:06:20.000 The only loss was a crazy freak injury.

00:06:22.000 And now we can continue to move forward and just kind of look at it as an adult instead of take the emotion out of it and look at it A plus B equals C. So it's really kind of helped me.

00:06:32.000 I think for a lot of people who don't test themselves in such an extreme manner, I mean, I think MMA is probably one of the most extreme things you could do for a job other than being a soldier or a fireman or a police officer or something like that.

00:06:45.000 But it's this idea that you sabotage yourself because you can't imagine yourself winning.

00:06:51.000 Chael Sonnen talked about that quite a bit, about His fight with Anderson Silva, how he was dominating him, not kind of, but was dominating him, was very close to being the UFC middleweight champion, found a way to fall into a triangle.

00:07:05.000 And he had done that with Paulo Filho when he fought him, and there was this thing that he would do where he would find a way to fuck it up.

00:07:14.000 Even though you're there doing it, the pressure of possibly pulling it off was too overwhelming.

00:07:19.000 You didn't believe it?

00:07:20.000 In some ways.

00:07:21.000 You didn't believe it.

00:07:22.000 And it's not even...

00:07:24.000 I mean, we're all...

00:07:25.000 I think we're all victim to our subconscious sometimes, too.

00:07:28.000 I mean, like we said, we're in there fighting.

00:07:30.000 You think, okay, that's a man in there fighting.

00:07:32.000 He has control of his body.

00:07:34.000 But you do, but you don't.

00:07:36.000 I mean, like, when Chael was getting caught...

00:07:38.000 I mean, I know exactly what you're talking about.

00:07:39.000 Everybody knows, remembers that fight.

00:07:41.000 Because we were all sitting there watching, thinking, holy cow, I can't believe Chael is...

00:07:45.000 He was a couple minutes away from being the world champ.

00:07:47.000 Beating the tar out of him, you know?

00:07:48.000 And all of a sudden, I think we all saw the triangle coming, too, you know?

00:07:52.000 Anderson, it seemed like he pushed the arm down real slow, and then all of a sudden he threw the leg over and we're all like, what are you doing?

00:07:58.000 And then, you know, then 30 seconds later, he's, you know, or 10 seconds later, the fight's over.

00:08:02.000 And I think it's your views or your beliefs not matching up with the reality.

00:08:08.000 And all of a sudden, there's that fine line between breaking that barrier and And unless you have been there before, unless, like I said, visualizing yourself extremely successful, extremely wealthy, someone to be looked at, someone to be admired, someone to follow, unless you see that, you're going to get to the point where you tell everybody you want the success, but you're not going to get it unless you 100% truly believe in it.

00:08:31.000 And it took me 30 years to figure it out, so anybody who's done that before, you know, it's okay.

00:08:36.000 It'll come with time, but you really have to, like I said, take extreme ownership Of inside your brain, between your ears is the most important part of life, as we've already said.

00:08:46.000 And you can continue to work hard.

00:08:48.000 And I go back to talking about being lazy.

00:08:51.000 I literally call myself lazy and shame myself.

00:08:55.000 Like, Michael, why didn't you do this today?

00:08:57.000 Why didn't you work on your mental health today, your self-image today?

00:09:01.000 Why didn't you visualize?

00:09:02.000 Why didn't you do that?

00:09:02.000 Because that's just like flexing a muscle in the gym, just like throwing a thousand repetitions, whether it be on the punching bag or drilling a wrestling move or a Or I take down, it's all the same stuff.

00:09:12.000 And arguably more important on the mental side of things than it is on the physical side of things.

00:09:16.000 When you keep saying extreme ownership, did you read Jocko's book?

00:09:19.000 I have it.

00:09:20.000 It's one of those ones where I have it and I haven't read it yet.

00:09:22.000 But I love that word, extreme ownership.

00:09:26.000 Yeah, it's an awesome word.

00:09:27.000 It's an awesome book, too.

00:09:28.000 And it's from a guy who's actually lived it.

00:09:31.000 There's a lot of wisdom in his life experiences that you can get something out of.

00:09:37.000 I ask because you obviously are a guy who seeks out knowledge, right?

00:09:43.000 You work on your mind.

00:09:45.000 What was it?

00:09:47.000 Was it a book or a series of books?

00:09:49.000 What got you thinking differently?

00:09:52.000 Well, honestly, for me, what got me thinking differently was honestly just going through the most trying time of my life.

00:09:58.000 I mean, I had just gotten married.

00:10:00.000 Now it's time to be a man.

00:10:01.000 Now it's time to step up.

00:10:02.000 Now it's time to provide.

00:10:05.000 All of a sudden, I go through this loss streak where after my third loss, I went home to San Diego with my wife.

00:10:10.000 We sat on the couch and we sit there and we just cried.

00:10:11.000 Who was the third loss?

00:10:12.000 Third loss was Will Brooks the second time.

00:10:14.000 Oh, that's right.

00:10:15.000 So I lost to him twice, Eddie once, and then now the Madison Square Garden one.

00:10:21.000 But we went home, we sat there, and it was almost like, what do we do now?

00:10:24.000 Is Bellator going to cut me?

00:10:26.000 Did I work this hard to now, you know, Be where I'm at now.

00:10:30.000 I was two years or a year and a half removed from being one of the top three guys in the world.

00:10:35.000 I had just beaten Eddie and all that kind of stuff.

00:10:37.000 And now here I was, three fights in a row, lost.

00:10:40.000 But it was that time where I realized Right.

00:10:44.000 I was actually starting to change my kind of mental training and stuff.

00:10:50.000 I was starting my mental training as I was going into that third fight or that third loss, that second fight with Will Brooks.

00:10:56.000 But I just hadn't been there yet.

00:10:58.000 And honestly, that one was more just like I got caught, you know.

00:11:02.000 But that was really what kind of set the trigger.

00:11:05.000 And I think I just started to realize, Michael, why?

00:11:08.000 You know, you sit there and you tell people you want to be the best.

00:11:11.000 Your actions speak louder than your words.

00:11:14.000 You work harder than everybody else.

00:11:15.000 You show it first.

00:11:15.000 You're the last one to leave.

00:11:16.000 You take care of your body.

00:11:18.000 You do all the right things.

00:11:19.000 At the end of the day, somebody has to be the best.

00:11:21.000 Why shouldn't it be you?

00:11:22.000 And I kept asking myself that question.

00:11:24.000 And the only answer I could come up with was I deserve to be the best.

00:11:28.000 I really do.

00:11:29.000 And I can say that with humility to say I really do deserve to be the best guy in the entire world at Lightweight.

00:11:35.000 Nobody works harder than I do.

00:11:36.000 Nobody takes care of themselves better than I do.

00:11:38.000 Nobody has made the sacrifices that I have and nobody lives the clean lifestyle like I do and has a calling on their life like I do.

00:11:45.000 Yet, when it came down to it, it has taken years and years and decades to almost erase the small-mindedness that I've had in my past.

00:11:55.000 And we're all just a constant work in progress.

00:11:57.000 And I think I just, I came up with work hard, good things might happen, but most likely you'll be mediocre.

00:12:03.000 You know, that's kind of, that was kind of my mindset.

00:12:05.000 What did you do different?

00:12:06.000 What did you change?

00:12:08.000 For me, yeah, reading books.

00:12:09.000 Like what specifically?

00:12:10.000 Do you remember?

00:12:11.000 What triggered it?

00:12:13.000 What helped you?

00:12:14.000 There was a book called Mind Gym.

00:12:16.000 You ever heard of it?

00:12:17.000 No.

00:12:18.000 Mind Gym.

00:12:18.000 And he talks about making a mental highlight reel.

00:12:21.000 And since that day, I've made mental highlight reels every couple months.

00:12:25.000 And even right now, to this day, on my mental highlight reel right now is beating Kyler Sanderson.

00:12:32.000 At Mizzou on senior night when him and I were ranked at the same.

00:12:37.000 We were ranked like fourth and fifth in the country, you know?

00:12:39.000 And not that I wasn't supposed to beat him, but the manner in which I beat him, I almost majored him.

00:12:43.000 And it was one of those breakthrough moments where I gave myself permission in front of everybody.

00:12:48.000 To just go out there and beat a guy handedly.

00:12:51.000 It was a wrestling match. 0.95

00:12:52.000 And it was a wrestling match, you know?

00:12:53.000 So, when you say make a mental highlight reel, this is of your past accomplishments?

00:12:58.000 Past accomplishments.

00:12:59.000 And I think the biggest detriment to the people that work hard and expect a lot of themselves is when you have achievements, you don't take time to smell the roses.

00:13:09.000 You don't take time to pat yourself on the back.

00:13:11.000 You think that, okay, well, if I stop and I say, you know what, I am good.

00:13:15.000 Oh my gosh, I did do a great job.

00:13:17.000 Holy cow, I was dominant.

00:13:18.000 You're not supposed to do that because that's prideful and that's conceited and that's narcissistic.

00:13:23.000 But really, if you're not your biggest fan, who's going to be?

00:13:26.000 And I think that's what I always did.

00:13:27.000 I would accomplish something and I'd say, okay, well, I'm supposed to accomplish that.

00:13:30.000 I won this tournament while I was supposed to.

00:13:32.000 But there's a balance, right? 1.00

00:13:33.000 There's a balance between patting yourself on the back too much and kissing your own ass and believing your own bullshit. 1.00

00:13:39.000 And we see what happens with those guys. 1.00

00:13:41.000 That's almost worse.

00:13:43.000 Exactly.

00:13:43.000 And I think we've all seen those cases, too.

00:13:46.000 We've all seen those cases where...

00:13:48.000 You see one guy, pride comes before the fall, and then all of a sudden the fall happens, you say, okay, well, I don't want to do that.

00:13:53.000 But there is that fine line, that middle ground where it's like, it's okay to love yourself.

00:13:59.000 It's okay to look at yourself in the mirror and say, that man right there standing in front of me in the mirror is a badass, and you deserve to be extremely successful.

00:14:07.000 But then when you go out in the world, you don't walk around like you're better than people.

00:14:12.000 You don't walk around like, you know.

00:14:14.000 So, I mean, there is no, you know, Finite A plus B equals C type of way to live.

00:14:20.000 But there is that middle ground between being your biggest fan, taking time to stop and pat yourself on the back and realize your accomplishments, which the mental highlight reel thing is something great because you can go through 10 things in your past and just continue to remember those times where you were in your flow state, where you absolutely performed at a ridiculous level.

00:14:39.000 That you didn't, that you kind of surprised yourself almost.

00:14:42.000 And I think that continues to happen step by step and brick by boring brick.

00:14:45.000 You make these little bitty accomplishments and as long as you continue to remember them, you can continue to increase that confident capacity that you should have and start to go from, man, I didn't know I was capable of this, to now the confident expectancy of Okay, I said I deserve it, but now I really am starting to believe that I deserve it.

00:15:06.000 And then once you actually believe, then you get in those scenarios where it's you versus him and someone's got to win.

00:15:11.000 So it's you most of the time now.

00:15:13.000 So this flow state thing.

00:15:15.000 So like when you're in a state where you feel like everything is just clicking.

00:15:20.000 How do you try to recreate that in your mind to remember that state?

00:15:25.000 I think it is writing things down after a practice.

00:15:29.000 Or honestly, sometimes what I like to do is...

00:15:31.000 Do you do that?

00:15:32.000 You have a journal?

00:15:33.000 A training journal?

00:15:34.000 Yeah, try to write things down.

00:15:35.000 And that's things too that can be added to a mental highlight reel.

00:15:38.000 Like having a really great sparring day.

00:15:41.000 And then remembering what you had for breakfast.

00:15:43.000 Remembering how your day started.

00:15:44.000 Remember whether you did or did not watch TV before practice.

00:15:48.000 Or, you know...

00:15:49.000 Those little things and then and then I always talk about working extremely hard and surround yourself with the best people possible and that's why I've you know I moved out to Las Vegas right when I started fighting and then moved to San Diego and then move and then move my training camp to Arizona and then now Florida and now you know so I've moved all over the country to find the best guys I possibly can so when you have a great day like that Sit down with the coach and say,

00:16:11.000 hey coach, you know, talking to Henry or Evan or Kami or one of these guys that is coaching me right now and talk about it, like almost overly talk about it, which those guys are always annoying to me or they always used to be like, hey, I did this right and I did this right and I did this right because I always thought, well, you should just work.

00:16:27.000 You shouldn't talk, just work.

00:16:28.000 But I've started to realize that.

00:16:31.000 Those things need to be vocalized or they get swept under the rug and you forget that you had a great day.

00:16:36.000 So now we sit down and we talk and we say, hey man, that 3-2 was really working great off the faint.

00:16:41.000 We worked that yesterday as we were hitting mitts.

00:16:43.000 And now you're continuing to show yourself that this thing really actually does work.

00:16:48.000 You're not just working to work, you're working smart.

00:16:50.000 And then you see that working smart actually turns into results.

00:16:53.000 And then you're like a lab rat in the gym.

00:16:57.000 Working on these little experiments that you're that you're making and you're actually Collecting the data and seeing the results now when you're talking about doing a mental highlight reel thing is this sort of a rebuilding exercise a rebuilding confidence exercise or is this just a?

00:17:14.000 solidifying skill set and understanding your potential Because you've already done things before.

00:17:19.000 Because you were in a bad spot when you started doing this.

00:17:23.000 Is this when you started constructing this highlight reel thing?

00:17:28.000 I actually read the book in college and then found it on my shelf one day.

00:17:33.000 Do you know who wrote it?

00:17:34.000 Mind Jim?

00:17:35.000 You find it, Jimmy?

00:17:36.000 Gary Mack.

00:17:38.000 Powerful Gary Mack.

00:17:39.000 Yeah, and then there was just a bunch of...

00:17:40.000 And there was another book.

00:17:42.000 Don't remind me.

00:17:43.000 It's called How Champions Think.

00:17:46.000 And it was just a bunch of instances where they were talking about Tiger Woods.

00:17:49.000 They were talking about this guy or that guy.

00:17:52.000 And then one of the chapters was doing a mental highlight reel.

00:17:54.000 And I think it can be used for both.

00:17:56.000 I mean, you should do one today.

00:17:58.000 We should all do one today. 0.88

00:17:59.000 Whether you're in a great place, whether you just closed the biggest business deal you ever possibly could, or you just are down in the dumps because you feel like the biggest loser on earth.

00:18:08.000 You do a mental highlight reel.

00:18:10.000 It's just like going to the gym.

00:18:11.000 And then it changes.

00:18:12.000 Maybe this month, It's different than next month.

00:18:15.000 Maybe you wipe off an old one and you put on a brand new one that you just remembered.

00:18:19.000 Because sometimes we forget successes that we have.

00:18:21.000 It takes me going to my Wikipedia page or me going on some old interviews or somebody telling me on Twitter, hey, remember that time you did this?

00:18:29.000 For me to actually remember the successes that I've had because I've been conditioned To pull myself up by my bootstraps every single day and forget about all my accomplishments in my past because those don't matter.

00:18:40.000 Those are stumbling blocks because what got you here isn't going to get you where you want to go.

00:18:46.000 And we have that mentality, but you have to take the time to remember Almost look at yourself the way other people see you because we all are all our biggest critics You know the way my fans see me the way you watch me fight is and and the the way you see my abilities Is probably even better than I have seen myself a lot in my past from an outside perspective It's so much easier to look at someone outside perspective because our own inner monologue our own and our own self-image Dummies

00:19:16.000 down Who we are and how much we want to accomplish.

00:19:19.000 Not all of us.

00:19:20.000 I mean, there's a lot of people out there who are cocky, narcissistic people who think they are the...

00:19:25.000 Those people have the hardest time coming back from losses, though.

00:19:28.000 Big time.

00:19:28.000 It seems like when they get head kicked or something and then they realize they're human, it's like, whoa.

00:19:33.000 You see it with a lot of those guys where they don't...

00:19:37.000 Instead of facing their demons, what they've done is create this delusional self-image.

00:19:43.000 And when that delusional self-image gets shattered and it's An undeniable reality that there's people that are better than them.

00:19:50.000 It's very, very difficult for them to bounce back.

00:19:53.000 Yeah.

00:19:53.000 Well, and I mean, I think I am by no means the poster child for that.

00:19:57.000 I mean, it took me a loss that carried me into another loss and another loss.

00:20:01.000 I went 688 days without a win.

00:20:04.000 But when I write a book some days, it's going to be called 688 days.

00:20:08.000 And that's how long it took me to go from loss to win.

00:20:12.000 And that's a long time. 0.98

00:20:13.000 That's a long fucking time. 0.99

00:20:14.000 It's a long time to question yourself every single day. 0.99

00:20:17.000 To wake up in the morning Wondering if you were going to have a paycheck.

00:20:21.000 Wondering if you were going to get a phone call from your manager.

00:20:23.000 Wondering if you really wanted to open up your phone and see all the negative comments that I told you Michael Chandler wasn't as good as we all thought he was. 1.00

00:20:32.000 Oh, you don't read that shit, do you? 1.00

00:20:33.000 You can't read that, dude! 1.00

00:20:35.000 But I mean, not even just the fans.

00:20:38.000 The media wrote me off and everybody.

00:20:42.000 You get written off and it's...

00:20:45.000 It shapes the reality when really the reality was, man, I was put on this earth to do some great things, but it just took me...

00:20:52.000 I look at it now and I think, you know, if bad things happen to you but a good thing comes from it, was it really a bad thing?

00:20:59.000 And I look at it and I say, everybody's got losses.

00:21:00.000 It's not a big deal.

00:21:01.000 You know, I remember the sting.

00:21:03.000 I remember the pain.

00:21:04.000 I remember the embarrassment.

00:21:05.000 I mean, what we also got to remember, too, is this is embarrassing.

00:21:08.000 You lose a fight, that's embarrassing.

00:21:10.000 You know, it's a hard pill to swallow.

00:21:12.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:21:12.000 So it's tough.

00:21:14.000 Especially when you were a former champion and then you're going these 600 plus days without a win.

00:21:19.000 And it really highlights the difficult nature of fighting as opposed to any other sport where there's times where it's entirely likely that you're going to go a long time without competing again.

00:21:35.000 Yeah.

00:21:35.000 You could go six months without competing again.

00:21:37.000 You can go eight months.

00:21:39.000 Guys go a year if you get injured. 0.99

00:21:40.000 That's a long fucking time. 0.98

00:21:43.000 Any other sport, if you lose a baseball game, you drop a ball, you're back at it the next day. 0.99

00:21:49.000 Same thing with wrestling. 0.99

00:21:50.000 Wrestling was great because you lost a match on Saturday.

00:21:55.000 You were able to come back in the duel on Wednesday or even the next Saturday.

00:21:59.000 Seven days you had to go.

00:22:00.000 I mean, a lot of times, yeah, I mean, barring injuries or whatnot, I mean, it could be a year before you get to step back in the cage again, and then every single day you spend questioning.

00:22:09.000 And every single day, you also just end up putting so much pressure on yourself.

00:22:13.000 I mean, the biggest thing that I did wrong was I came into this sport, and literally 18 months after starting the sport, I was in a cage with Eddie Alvarez, top five guy in the world, beat Eddie Alvarez.

00:22:25.000 Then it was like, okay, now you have to perform.

00:22:28.000 That was that soon after starting the sport?

00:22:30.000 Yeah.

00:22:31.000 August of 2009, I had my first fight, and then I fought him in 2011. That's crazy.

00:22:38.000 Yeah.

00:22:38.000 And you finished him?

00:22:39.000 And finished him.

00:22:40.000 But then, now the real game starts.

00:22:43.000 Now it's like, okay, hey, you're there.

00:22:44.000 You're ranked in the top three, top five.

00:22:46.000 You know, your whole future depends on every single fight.

00:22:49.000 And then, instead of thinking about every single fight, you think about every single practice.

00:22:53.000 And instead of thinking about every single practice, you think about every single round in practice.

00:22:56.000 And not just every round, But every minute in practice.

00:22:59.000 So you hit me with a 1-2, immediately that's a loss in my mind.

00:23:03.000 So now I have to come back and get it.

00:23:05.000 So instead of just focusing on success, I was focusing on perfection.

00:23:10.000 So every single day I was trying to be perfect.

00:23:12.000 And you can't be perfect.

00:23:13.000 The greatest athletes in the world will tell you...

00:23:15.000 They are not perfect.

00:23:17.000 You know, they fail time and time and time again. 0.65

00:23:19.000 But I put all this pressure on myself to where I put myself in this prison of, Michael, you suck because you just lost to this guy who's not even signed to any organization at all, and you just lost to him in this sparring round.

00:23:31.000 And my view of what the loss was was different than my coach who watched it. 0.92

00:23:36.000 He said, no, you did all right.

00:23:37.000 You didn't lose horribly, but in my mind I lost horribly.

00:23:39.000 I would have got finished, blah, blah, blah, all the kind of like crazy stuff, you know?

00:23:43.000 So that's the thing too is I started focusing on success and not perfection.

00:23:47.000 You know, stop putting so much pressure on yourself to be perfect.

00:23:50.000 Just focus on being successful.

00:23:51.000 Now I'm focusing on the big picture of being successful instead of these little bitty instances where I'm trying to be perfect.

00:23:57.000 Now when you look at yourself and you look at your overall MMA skill set, do you try to look at it almost like as if you're managing yourself?

00:24:05.000 Not managing yourself like a fight manager, but like a project.

00:24:09.000 Like looking at it like, okay, this is what we need to work on.

00:24:12.000 This is how I need to tighten this up.

00:24:14.000 Do you look at it as like an overall long-term project?

00:24:18.000 Like how do you visualize it?

00:24:20.000 Yeah, I mean, and I get that question a lot, too.

00:24:22.000 It's like, well, hey, how do you prepare for an opponent?

00:24:25.000 And honestly, I'd say almost 90% of my training is focusing on myself.

00:24:31.000 I mean, because if I put the right systems in place, if I get the right skill sets as sharp as they can be for fight night, there's not a guy in the lightweight division in the entire world that I think can beat me.

00:24:42.000 That last 10%, 90% focus on myself, the last 10% focus on the little intricacies, the little habits, the little tendencies that my opponents might have.

00:24:51.000 I mean, Eddie did a great job with it in the second round.

00:24:53.000 They knew if they ran for me...

00:24:54.000 The second fight?

00:24:55.000 Yeah.

00:24:55.000 They ran for me and they circled and circled and circled.

00:24:57.000 Crazy maniac robot, come forward like a reckless abandon. 0.97

00:25:01.000 Michael Chandler's going to come and he's going to eat a thousand jabs. 1.00

00:25:05.000 And you can...

00:25:06.000 Keep them off you long enough to hopefully maybe win a decision.

00:25:09.000 They did a good job at that.

00:25:10.000 I wasn't cutting off the cage.

00:25:12.000 I wasn't using my feints.

00:25:13.000 I was trying to throw big shots because why?

00:25:16.000 We had that epic battle in 2011. I wasn't 100% confident in my training.

00:25:20.000 So that led me to just fight like a barbarian rather than a skillful veteran that has the skills and the abilities to be able to go out there and beat any lightweight in the world.

00:25:31.000 You're still relatively new with your fighting experience too, right?

00:25:34.000 Well, that was the second fight.

00:25:36.000 But I was still very young, and I had changed...

00:25:38.000 I had moved to a training camp where I wasn't getting...

00:25:42.000 We all need to look at ourselves, too.

00:25:44.000 I'm not telling people how to live their lives or train, but I needed to focus on a certain path to victory.

00:25:50.000 Find the easiest path to victory.

00:25:52.000 Bruce Lee, water.

00:25:53.000 Be like water.

00:25:55.000 Adapt, but also just say, okay, I'm not a long guy, not a tall guy.

00:26:00.000 I'm a shorter, powerful wrestler who can take anybody down, who's not going to get taken down, who has an overhand right that can knock anybody out in the entire world, and a gas tank that can come...

00:26:10.000 That will surpass any 25 minutes that I need to fight.

00:26:14.000 So I needed to focus on these certain five elements to be successful and not a thousand stuff.

00:26:19.000 I mean, training with Dominick Cruz and working on footwork and doing this and doing that and rollouts and all that kind of stuff.

00:26:26.000 It wasn't the right path to victory for me.

00:26:30.000 Therefore, I found myself almost out training myself.

00:26:33.000 I was training so much.

00:26:35.000 If I really just would have trained basics and good cardio, good strength and conditioning, good boxing, good wrestling, good grappling, That's easy to say after the fact, right?

00:26:45.000 You get stuck in that, yeah.

00:26:47.000 Where were you training at the time?

00:26:48.000 Were you training at Alliance?

00:26:49.000 Yeah.

00:26:49.000 And so you felt like you were trying to mimic Dominic's crazy movement?

00:26:54.000 I think it's just...

00:26:55.000 I mean, the good thing about that training camp is they have opened themselves up to a lot of different techniques.

00:27:02.000 You know, I mean, I... I feel like I'm pretty athletic.

00:27:06.000 I feel like I catch on pretty quickly.

00:27:08.000 But really, to be successful, like if I was going to step into the cage with Khabib tomorrow, I'm going to focus on the basics that win. 0.99

00:27:15.000 I mean, you can win a whole fight with a one-two and good takedown defense, some takedown offense, and some good grappling, you know?

00:27:22.000 And that's it.

00:27:22.000 That's all you need.

00:27:23.000 And in my mind, the more I try to make this an intricate sport and a complicated sport, The more you're gonna find yourself having incremental Defeats, you know, like when I'm when I'm sparring outside of my element all of a sudden I find okay I tried this this round and I got beat up like you know, I got beat up which Messes up your confidence and all that stuff.

00:27:43.000 Do you feel like This is something that I struggle with, too, when trying to analyze fighters' performances and their future and what you can and can't do.

00:27:52.000 Do you feel like you go into MMA with a certain skill set?

00:27:57.000 You started out as a wrestler, and you're not going to be a karate expert.

00:28:04.000 You're not going to be a wonder boy.

00:28:06.000 You're not going to be a jujitsu expert, which you are as a powerful wrestler with great striking.

00:28:13.000 That's your skill set.

00:28:14.000 You're strong and you've got great cardio.

00:28:16.000 If you try to add a bunch of stuff to that and expand your skill level, do you feel like there's enough time in a career to really achieve the type of proficiency with, say, like...

00:28:29.000 Kickboxing or something like that that a real world-class kickboxer has.

00:28:33.000 You almost are better off not doing that.

00:28:36.000 Yeah, I mean, I think I am the how-to manual for that, you know?

00:28:40.000 What did you try to do different?

00:28:42.000 I mean, just...

00:28:44.000 Too many angles, too many different combinations, too many calls.

00:28:49.000 A coach can out-coach too.

00:28:52.000 A coach can out-coach and tell you seven different combinations in one minute when really it should have just been focus on cutting them off, focus on feints, focus on touching a leg, which is going to set up the punches, and focus on the punches that are going to set up the takedown.

00:29:07.000 I also would say now...

00:29:09.000 My coach, Henry Hooft.

00:29:12.000 Awesome kickboxing coach, has amazing techniques, but it's very, very, very basic.

00:29:18.000 We focus on being very, very proficient and very violent with the basics.

00:29:23.000 You're not going to see us throwing a bunch of crazy combinations or a bunch of crazy stuff.

00:29:29.000 So that works very well for me.

00:29:30.000 I started out with Gil Martinez in Vegas, just wrestling, just boxing.

00:29:36.000 And then I went to Alliance, and then now down in Florida with Henry.

00:29:39.000 Do you live in Florida now?

00:29:40.000 No, I live in Nashville.

00:29:41.000 But my last three camps I've done down in Florida, I'm opening up my own gym in Nashville, so I'll be doing training at both places.

00:29:49.000 But I mean, the killers that I get to spar with and train with down in Florida can't be matched, and those coaches are amazing down there.

00:29:55.000 Yeah, I'm a big fan of Henry Hooft.

00:29:57.000 Yeah.

00:29:57.000 I like him as a person and I really like his coaching style.

00:30:01.000 He's an animal.

00:30:02.000 He is.

00:30:02.000 And the funny thing is he coached against me in that second Eddie Alvarez fight.

00:30:06.000 So we talk about that.

00:30:07.000 And that's why I will always...

00:30:08.000 I want to fight Eddie again so bad.

00:30:11.000 I want to have that trilogy.

00:30:12.000 Well, there's only one way to do that, fella.

00:30:13.000 I want to fight Eddie so bad.

00:30:15.000 But I have so much respect for him because not only did I spend 50 minutes inside the cage with the guy.

00:30:20.000 We both have our face bloodied and battered and stitches.

00:30:25.000 I mean, I got stitches in my lip.

00:30:26.000 We both have stitches in our lip and our eyes and eyebrows from each other.

00:30:31.000 But it's funny because when I sit there and I talk to people that I train in, I basically train in his training camp that he used to train in, and everybody always said, there's only one guy I can compare your work ethic to, your dedication to, your love for your family, your love for the sport, this, that, and the other thing, and that's Eddie.

00:30:47.000 So, I mean, me and Eddie have spoken a couple times.

00:30:50.000 I went up and trained with Frankie Edgar for two weeks a couple years ago, and he was out there training.

00:30:55.000 So we like, it's always just funny between me and him because we You know have fought and you know but it's funny but it's not like we have so much respect we don't hate each other.

00:31:04.000 Do you guys hang out and go to dinner or anything like that?

00:31:06.000 No we've never done that but I mean we saw each other practice and I asked him to spar and he's like no man I don't want to get knocked out but but we were at the same we were at the same thing and uh same practices and stuff and it's kind of but you also get it's cool to get compared to a guy that you have fought because that immediately gives you that a much more respect for somebody because Because I know how hard I train, I know I show up early, and I'm always doing the little bit of extra, and everybody knows what I'm fighting for.

00:31:32.000 And I think him and I are very similar in that respect, so it's kind of cool.

00:31:37.000 Yeah, I would imagine no one knows each other better than you guys do after something like that.

00:31:43.000 It's pretty nuts, yeah.

00:31:44.000 I mean, man, they were both knock-down drag-out wars.

00:31:48.000 They were crazy fights.

00:31:49.000 I would still say I won the second fight.

00:31:51.000 Well, it's a very close fight, right?

00:31:52.000 Yeah, it was very close.

00:31:53.000 I will say, but like I said, I ran into too many punches.

00:31:59.000 It was kind of crazy too, I think.

00:32:01.000 I actually spoke to one of the refs, one of the refs who called the fight for Eddie, or not one of the refs, one of the judges, like a couple months after I was at some event.

00:32:09.000 And he's like, oh yeah, well he rocked you in the second round.

00:32:11.000 And I was like, he didn't rock me in the second round, I tripped.

00:32:13.000 I basically tripped and it looked like I got rocked.

00:32:15.000 So it's just funny, that kind of stuff too, this sport is left up to...

00:32:20.000 People who don't necessarily know what they're doing.

00:32:22.000 Yeah, that's a real problem with me.

00:32:24.000 I go crazy.

00:32:25.000 I remember you talking about a couple fights ago.

00:32:29.000 Yeah, me and DC. Yeah, you're like, we're not going to say that name.

00:32:32.000 Leave that lady alone. 1.00

00:32:33.000 Yeah.

00:32:34.000 She's a nice lady. 1.00

00:32:35.000 But look, man, it's just a disgrace that you have people that really don't know anything about martial arts, and they're judging martial arts competitions.

00:32:45.000 I mean, could you imagine if you had an Ultimate Fighting Championship eight-man tournament with all the judges?

00:32:52.000 And have them fight each other? 0.98

00:32:53.000 You'd be like, what in the fuck is going on here? 0.99

00:32:56.000 You guys don't even train? 0.99

00:32:58.000 You don't know anything about fighting at all?

00:33:00.000 What do they take a test?

00:33:01.000 A written test?

00:33:02.000 A lot of them in certain commissions come from boxing.

00:33:06.000 So they're boxing judges.

00:33:08.000 But even then, were they boxers?

00:33:10.000 That's a good question.

00:33:11.000 A lot of them, no.

00:33:13.000 But I don't know if Harold Letterman can box.

00:33:16.000 He does a great job of judging, though.

00:33:17.000 I agree with a lot of his assessments, but I think boxing is more straightforward.

00:33:24.000 It's two hands.

00:33:25.000 There's no elbows, knees, takedowns.

00:33:28.000 You don't have to understand jiu-jitsu.

00:33:29.000 You don't have to understand wrestling.

00:33:31.000 You don't have to understand when a guy's in trouble versus a guy's not in trouble in a certain position.

00:33:36.000 How close was that submission?

00:33:39.000 How many leg kicks has that guy eaten?

00:33:41.000 Why did he switch his stance?

00:33:42.000 Did he switch his stance because he does that all the time?

00:33:44.000 Or is his left leg chewed up?

00:33:46.000 They don't know.

00:33:47.000 No.

00:33:47.000 They really don't know.

00:33:49.000 The stuff that you're saying that people who have seen the sport are thinking, but the judges may or may not have any idea what's going on.

00:33:56.000 A lot of them don't have an idea.

00:33:58.000 It's a disgrace.

00:33:59.000 It really is a disgrace.

00:34:01.000 Well, it's crazy to think that the sport's been around for 20 years now, 25 years now, and we're still having this conversation.

00:34:08.000 Boxing has questionable judgments.

00:34:12.000 There's some questionable calls.

00:34:15.000 But nothing like MMA. I think MMA is...

00:34:18.000 Crazy ones. 0.69

00:34:18.000 It's disgraceful. 0.69

00:34:19.000 It really is.

00:34:20.000 What's the worst one?

00:34:21.000 Do you know the worst one in your opinion?

00:34:23.000 I wouldn't want to say a worst one. 0.99

00:34:26.000 Because there's been so many fucking terrible ones. 0.98

00:34:29.000 Sometimes it's like a split decision. 1.00

00:34:31.000 You'll hear one you agree with, one you agree with, and one you're like, what the fuck? 0.99

00:34:37.000 And we'll look at each other. 0.99

00:34:38.000 I'll look at Anik, and I'll look at DC, and we'll be like, Jesus Christ! 0.99

00:34:42.000 How the fuck did someone think that person won that fight? 1.00

00:34:45.000 It's just bad, man. 0.99

00:34:47.000 It's just really, really, really bad.

00:34:48.000 And for a guy like you, who, you know, you have a win bonus and a show bonus in the UFC. So if you're in there and you do everything right and you get robbed, you just get robbed of a decision and on your record it goes to the loss.

00:35:04.000 And you could...

00:35:06.000 You know, you could protest it till the cows come home.

00:35:08.000 Nobody ever gets anything reversed.

00:35:10.000 When was the last time anybody got a decision reversed?

00:35:12.000 I can't even remember.

00:35:14.000 No.

00:35:14.000 I mean, I don't really think it happens.

00:35:15.000 They've robbed you of your win bonus.

00:35:17.000 I mean, it could cost you tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. 0.99

00:35:21.000 It's a fucking terrible, terrible disgrace. 0.99

00:35:23.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:35:23.000 I mean, and also, too, I've never really even thought about the financials of it. 0.99

00:35:28.000 I never really thought...

00:35:29.000 It was always, to me, it was like a wrestling match.

00:35:30.000 It was a loss.

00:35:31.000 It was a loss on my record.

00:35:32.000 And then now...

00:35:33.000 I look back and I think, dang, man, if I would have fought just a little bit different here or that judge would have saw this a little bit different and we're talking a lot of money that I could have in my pocket or would have won. 0.95

00:35:43.000 We've discussed this many times and I think, first of all, the idea of three judges is ridiculous. 0.88

00:35:47.000 Why? 0.54

00:35:48.000 Why only three?

00:35:49.000 Are they expensive?

00:35:51.000 You could get some of the best martial arts...

00:35:54.000 Practitioners in the world to judge fights and have ten of them.

00:35:58.000 And I bet you would have a correct outcome way more often than you would with three.

00:36:02.000 And I just think we need to overhaul that.

00:36:06.000 And for whatever reason, they're reluctant to do so.

00:36:09.000 We talked about before this podcast started, we talked about weight classes.

00:36:13.000 I think that's another giant issue.

00:36:14.000 Yeah.

00:36:14.000 I think every 10 pounds is a legitimate compromise.

00:36:17.000 Yeah.

00:36:17.000 And I think what we have now, like, the 185 to 205 pound gap is just bananas.

00:36:22.000 Huge.

00:36:22.000 You have 20 pounds in between world championship weight classes.

00:36:25.000 Yeah.

00:36:26.000 It's just nuts.

00:36:27.000 You're dealing with two different size humans.

00:36:29.000 It's just so different.

00:36:30.000 Completely.

00:36:30.000 Yeah.

00:36:31.000 I mean, and, yeah, I mean, obviously, closer to home for me would be that 165-ish, you know? 0.94

00:36:35.000 Yeah.

00:36:35.000 I mean, and there's so many competitors or so many just the average human being is between, you know, 150 and 190. There's the big guys, there's the small guys, but we're kind of in that mid-range.

00:36:46.000 And I think a 165 weight class for a lot of us at 155, I mean, I would always probably stay at 155. I would love some cool matchups at 165 and be able to try to go for different belts and all that kind of stuff.

00:36:58.000 Obviously, that would be great.

00:36:59.000 But 155 is great for me, but there's definitely, I know some guys who are missing weights.

00:37:04.000 You saw Kevin Lee two weeks ago miss weight.

00:37:07.000 Khabib has obviously missed weight numerous times.

00:37:10.000 Well, Khabib is, you know, he's a big guy.

00:37:13.000 When he gets down to 155, that is quite a cut.

00:37:16.000 And since he's been, I believe he's with George Lockhart, right?

00:37:20.000 Yeah, I think so.

00:37:21.000 Wasn't him and Tony, weren't him and Tony both with Lockhart?

00:37:24.000 I think so.

00:37:25.000 Right before Tony got hurt?

00:37:27.000 I don't know.

00:37:29.000 I'm not sure.

00:37:30.000 I thought that was a thing.

00:37:30.000 I think that's the case.

00:37:32.000 I mean, there's a lot of great experts.

00:37:34.000 Mike Dolce, of course.

00:37:35.000 There's a lot of great experts in getting you down to the proper weight, but... 0.98

00:37:39.000 The bottom line is, when you're coming down from 200 pounds and you're getting down to 155, that's a fucking struggle. 0.95

00:37:45.000 It is a lot, yeah. 0.93

00:37:46.000 And like we talked about, too, it depends on...

00:37:49.000 That's always the question I get from all kinds of people.

00:37:51.000 Hey, what weight do you walk around at?

00:37:53.000 And it's not really the weight, it's the body composition.

00:37:56.000 How much body fat are you holding?

00:37:59.000 I get a DEXA scan every couple months when I'm down in Florida or whatnot.

00:38:03.000 We always try to start...

00:38:04.000 What's a DEXA scan?

00:38:05.000 How does that work?

00:38:06.000 So basically, it's the one where you lay down...

00:38:07.000 That's the one they have at the Performance Institute...

00:38:09.000 In the UFC? Probably.

00:38:10.000 It's just the thing that goes over time for five seconds.

00:38:13.000 And it does everything from water to bone density, to muscles, to tendons, to ligaments, to organs, like all that kind of stuff.

00:38:20.000 And the cool thing is my bone density has continued to go up like over the last couple of years, you know?

00:38:25.000 Yeah?

00:38:25.000 Like how much?

00:38:26.000 I mean, it's.01% or whatever, but I mean, that's a lot when you're talking about bone density.

00:38:32.000 And is that from strength training?

00:38:34.000 I think so.

00:38:34.000 I mean, I put out a post a couple months ago where I really think, you know, I've been extremely blessed to have, throughout college wrestling, I mean, I've seen so many talented guys' careers ended because of injuries.

00:38:46.000 I had none.

00:38:47.000 You know, I had a couple sprains here and there.

00:38:48.000 I had a meniscus tear and whatnot.

00:38:50.000 Those are like six-week injuries.

00:38:51.000 No big deal.

00:38:52.000 Same thing in mixed martial arts.

00:38:55.000 I haven't really had any really bad injuries.

00:38:57.000 And I really do think it's because I keep my body in great shape and I do a lot of strength training.

00:39:02.000 My body is constantly overcompensating for the weights that I'm throwing around, the med balls I'm throwing around, the comfort zone, getting my body outside of my comfort zone day in and day out that my body has just kind of bulletproofed itself to a lot of serious injuries.

00:39:18.000 Obviously, it's fights.

00:39:19.000 I mean, it's a fighting and you're jacking up little limbs and hands and feet and all that kind of stuff here and there all the time, but nothing serious.

00:39:26.000 Cam Haynes went and worked out with you in one of your strength and conditioning workouts.

00:39:30.000 Who was your strength coach for that?

00:39:32.000 That was Todd Durkin in San Diego, Fitness Quest 10. He went skydiving that morning.

00:39:39.000 Yeah, with Andy Stump.

00:39:40.000 He wanted to come in for a workout.

00:39:43.000 A lot of my stuff is not crazy heavy, but it's just a lot of reps, a lot of cardio, a lot of moving stuff around, a lot of functional movements.

00:39:52.000 What kind of stuff are you doing?

00:39:54.000 I love med ball stuff.

00:39:55.000 I love med ball slams, med ball rotations.

00:39:57.000 I love anything...

00:39:59.000 What I always focus on is strength plus speed equals power.

00:40:03.000 So we'll do one strength movement, whether it's a deadlift, whether it's a trap bar deadlift or a squat, straight into a speed movement, which would be like just a plyometric squat jump.

00:40:15.000 So you got the strength plus the speed, and that's how you continue to gain power.

00:40:19.000 In supersets.

00:40:20.000 So then maybe we're doing a bench press.

00:40:23.000 Bench press isn't the greatest workout, but it's focusing on the punching power.

00:40:28.000 Just three reps of something a little bit heavy.

00:40:30.000 You're doing dumbbells or barbells?

00:40:31.000 Barbells and dumbbells.

00:40:32.000 Right to a plyometric push-up.

00:40:34.000 So now you've got another strength plus a speed equals power.

00:40:38.000 So plyometric push-up meaning you explode up?

00:40:40.000 Yeah.

00:40:41.000 And are you clapping at the top?

00:40:43.000 Yeah, you could.

00:40:44.000 You don't have to.

00:40:45.000 I mean, a lot of times it's just exploding as hard as you can and catching yourself, exploding as hard as you can.

00:40:49.000 And we do a lot of that kind of stuff, whether it's squats to hurdle jumps or deadlifts to med ball slam to jump.

00:40:59.000 And that also...

00:41:00.000 It gets your heart rate up.

00:41:01.000 It's also just getting your body moving like crazy.

00:41:03.000 So, I mean, a lot of the stuff we're doing at my new gym, a lot of that programming is very similar to that where we have like a ripped class where it's resistance, interval, power, plyometric, and endurance.

00:41:14.000 And we're focusing on all those things.

00:41:15.000 Everybody likes to do that.

00:41:16.000 They like to make it an acronym.

00:41:18.000 Yeah.

00:41:18.000 People love doing that.

00:41:19.000 That was my boy PJ. That was my boy PJ at Trainee Camp.

00:41:21.000 And I loved it though.

00:41:22.000 I was like, ripped?

00:41:23.000 What is that?

00:41:23.000 And then I was like, wow, R-I-P-P-E-D. I love it.

00:41:26.000 So, I was pumped about that.

00:41:27.000 Yeah, people like that because you can remember it, right?

00:41:29.000 Yeah.

00:41:30.000 Now, when you are going into a camp, who organizes your training?

00:41:35.000 How do you decide when you're doing strength and conditioning, when you're doing skill work, when you're sparring, when you're recuperating?

00:41:44.000 It's always a little bit different.

00:41:47.000 The last couple camps down in Florida, we've had pretty much the same kind of schedule.

00:41:53.000 Monday morning is always a drill.

00:41:55.000 Tuesday is sparring.

00:41:57.000 Wednesday was wrestling.

00:41:58.000 Thursday was grappling.

00:42:01.000 Friday was sparring.

00:42:02.000 And then at night we go more individual, whether it's individual with one of the kickboxing coaches, one of the mid coaches with either Henry or Evan, or maybe it's a one-on-one with Kami Barzini, or maybe it's a one-on-one with Greg Jones, or it's a one-on-one with A grappling coach or it's your strength and conditioning.

00:42:19.000 A lot of times I couple them where I'll do an hour of strength work with 30 or 45 minutes of pads as well.

00:42:28.000 It all depends on the recovery.

00:42:30.000 If I feel myself getting overworked, I will cut one of those out and focus on which one's more important for that particular fight.

00:42:37.000 If I was fighting Goeti Yamauchi, who's a big-time grappler, big-time submission artist, so I focused a lot more on escapes, Defense, submission defense, and all that kind of stuff.

00:42:50.000 I was still focusing on strength and conditioning and striking, but I really threw in an extra couple grappling sessions there.

00:42:56.000 So who's managing all this, though?

00:42:58.000 Do you have a head coach that decides when you're going to do what, and they look at you and say, you know, today we're going to take it easier today, we're going to do this?

00:43:06.000 I think, I mean, it's that kind of loose schedule that we always have, but Henry said that.

00:43:11.000 Henry and Kami Barzini has come in and really helped Helped manage some of that stuff.

00:43:17.000 We made a couple of different changes.

00:43:19.000 But I mean, yeah, they come in and they say, here's what we're going to do.

00:43:22.000 But then every now and then it's like, hey, tonight instead of an hour long, we're going to do 30 with me and then 30 with Kami.

00:43:29.000 Or Henry would do 30 minutes with pads, 30 minutes with Kami. 0.90

00:43:32.000 So it ebbs and flows.

00:43:33.000 And I think one of the biggest things about...

00:43:36.000 Mixed martial arts is an individual sport.

00:43:39.000 We're all grown men.

00:43:40.000 We all have our coaches that we're supposed to listen to, but I don't have to.

00:43:43.000 I don't have to do what any of these guys tell me to.

00:43:46.000 But I think that's why wrestlers are so successful, because they show up, they shut up, and you tell me what to do, and you ask me how high to jump, and I just jump.

00:43:54.000 Yeah, I've always said that I think there's two aspects of wrestling that make it the most important.

00:43:59.000 Skill set to have an MMA and one of them is the ability to take a fight to the ground or Stand back up like just to have that to have the ability to dictate where the fight takes place is gigantic But twos might maybe just as important is the mental strength wrestlers are always dehydrated.

00:44:17.000 They're always exhausted They're always pushing and they're they take pride in being the most miserable person.

00:44:22.000 Yeah, you know, there's something about that like having The ability to push through discomfort, which is just something that you cultivate in an amateur wrestling career.

00:44:34.000 I think you just get so comfortable being uncomfortable. 0.80

00:44:38.000 Your life sucks for five years straight, especially Division I college wrestling.

00:44:43.000 It's an emotional rollercoaster. 0.99

00:44:45.000 With that mental toughness that you're talking about, you don't just get mentally tough from working hard.

00:44:50.000 You get mentally tough from working hard and losing and then winning and then losing.

00:44:55.000 Having coach riding your butt because of this, and then you got a final, and you got a test, and you got this, and you got all this whole life that you're trying to manage and figure out while you're still trying to become a national champion.

00:45:06.000 So you're getting thrown into the hardest sport in the entire world physically, the hardest sport mentally, plus trying to have a college career, actually get your degree the whole reason you went to college.

00:45:16.000 And then really just being coachable and understanding delayed gratification.

00:45:22.000 I think so many people can come into an MMA gym and they have a great boxing coach and it's like they expect after the first mid-session that they're going to look like Roy Jones Jr. Whereas when I showed up to MMA, I realized, okay, I went to Vegas and I was training with Gray Maynard and Mike Pyle and Jay Huron and Tyson Griffin and Evan Dunham and all these great guys.

00:45:40.000 I knew I was going to take my licks for a long time.

00:45:43.000 It might have been a year before I won a round.

00:45:44.000 I was okay with that.

00:45:45.000 You have to be okay with the delayed gratification of life.

00:45:49.000 And now even as a 32-year-old, I understand that any aspect of life that I'm going into that's new, it's okay if I'm the guppy.

00:45:57.000 It's okay if I'm the lowest guy on the totem pole.

00:45:59.000 Even though I've accomplished so many great things and I've done some great things in life, I'm still a guppy in a lot of aspects of life.

00:46:07.000 That's a hard pill for a lot of people to swallow.

00:46:10.000 It is, but it's just ego.

00:46:10.000 That's why a lot of kickboxers never learn jujitsu.

00:46:12.000 They hate getting tapped.

00:46:14.000 I love getting tapped.

00:46:15.000 It's never happened, actually, but no.

00:46:18.000 But you know what I mean?

00:46:19.000 I mean, you've seen it.

00:46:20.000 I mean, we've all seen it.

00:46:21.000 Guys who are fantastic kickboxers, that for whatever reason, they just try to concentrate only on defense.

00:46:27.000 That's all they want to do.

00:46:28.000 Yeah, I mean, I'm not one of those guys that I get tapped and I'm like, oh man, good job, man.

00:46:32.000 I'm freaking ticked.

00:46:34.000 I'm pissed, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to show up the next day.

00:46:37.000 That doesn't mean I'm going to skip.

00:46:38.000 I mean, the funniest thing is you go to any gym around the country, if they have, I bet, you asked DC this at AKA, he's running the wrestling practice.

00:46:46.000 I bet the amount of guys that show up for sparring day and grappling day is different than the guys who show up on wrestling day.

00:46:50.000 Same thing at our gym.

00:46:51.000 We have 28 guys, 30 guys sparring on Tuesday.

00:46:55.000 All of a sudden, Wednesday rolls around and we're doing a wrestling practice and there's like seven guys that show up. 0.98

00:46:59.000 It's fucking hard. 0.97

00:47:01.000 It's hard. 1.00

00:47:01.000 It's fucking hard. 1.00

00:47:02.000 But you have to embrace the suck. 0.99

00:47:03.000 You have to understand that you don't get anything in life without... 0.94

00:47:07.000 Getting yourself outside of your comfort zone.

00:47:09.000 Every single thing that you want to accomplish is waiting for you right outside of your comfort zone.

00:47:13.000 And that's what I've really started to realize. 0.99

00:47:16.000 And you just take ownership, extreme ownership of it and say, stop being a sissy and just go push yourself to your puke. 0.99

00:47:23.000 Have you ever puked? 0.99

00:47:23.000 Have you ever passed out? 0.99

00:47:24.000 No, you haven't.

00:47:25.000 You know, or you haven't passed out.

00:47:26.000 You know, I rarely puke.

00:47:28.000 So I want to just continue to try to get myself there.

00:47:30.000 And if I can, I'm doing something right.

00:47:32.000 Now, when you say visualization, you say you visualize, how do you do it and do you schedule a time like, hey, at 8 p.m.

00:47:44.000 tonight after training, I'm going to sit down and I'm going to visualize for an hour?

00:47:49.000 Yeah, there needs to be a time.

00:47:50.000 I mean, first of all, you always want to try to set a time.

00:47:52.000 You can never say, I'll definitely do it tomorrow.

00:47:55.000 You need to say, okay, well, I have practice here, I have practice here, I need to eat here, I have an interview here, I have this here, that there.

00:48:02.000 It doesn't need to be a crazy amount of time.

00:48:04.000 I mean, you know, five minutes is long enough.

00:48:07.000 That's a long time to be—I mean, that's a round.

00:48:10.000 Do you ever grapple around and two minutes goes by, you look at the clock and there's three minutes left?

00:48:14.000 You can't believe it.

00:48:14.000 Holy cow.

00:48:15.000 Like, you know, five minutes is a long time because you can get a lot done mentally because visualization knows no time.

00:48:22.000 There's not a clock.

00:48:23.000 Ticking.

00:48:24.000 There's things happening.

00:48:25.000 So you close your eyes when you do this?

00:48:28.000 Where are you sitting?

00:48:29.000 Are you sitting in a dark room?

00:48:30.000 How do you do this?

00:48:31.000 The hard part with me is I'm a very good sleeper.

00:48:34.000 I've tried to be like, I'm going to wake up in the morning and I'm going to keep laying in bed and visualize and I fall asleep.

00:48:40.000 So you've got to know yourself.

00:48:42.000 That's good though.

00:48:43.000 At least you're getting sleep.

00:48:45.000 Oh, for sure.

00:48:45.000 You've got to have the self-awareness to know where you're on, where you're off.

00:48:50.000 So for me, I mean...

00:48:52.000 A lot of times it's sitting up, sitting on the couch, sitting on a chair.

00:48:56.000 But I think the biggest thing is seeing the lights.

00:49:00.000 I mean, the other day, for instance, we were just talking about Fuji and putting in the mats.

00:49:04.000 And so we just installed a bag rack system in my gym.

00:49:07.000 And something there, I don't know if it was the rubber, the cage panels or what it was, and it smelled exactly like the Bellator cage.

00:49:13.000 And I started to get, I got like, I literally, my heart rate started going up and I got goosebumps because of a smell.

00:49:20.000 You got triggered.

00:49:21.000 Yes.

00:49:21.000 That's what it is.

00:49:22.000 Exactly.

00:49:22.000 And I know exactly what that smell is.

00:49:25.000 It's weird how smells do that.

00:49:27.000 Oh, 100%.

00:49:27.000 And I've actually asked Bellator, hey, can I have a piece of that cage?

00:49:32.000 I want to cut off an 8-inch piece of that cage, the canvas, or whatever it is, to bring and just... 0.77

00:49:38.000 Just suck it in. 1.00

00:49:39.000 You're going to huff cage, bro. 1.00

00:49:40.000 Just huff cage. 1.00

00:49:41.000 But you've got to get yourself to there, you know?

00:49:45.000 And be in the space, in the arena.

00:49:48.000 I can see the cage.

00:49:49.000 And after I started doing it, I mean, it was the Petricky Pitbull fight, the knockout.

00:49:55.000 Where that was the first time that I had really, really gotten—I had really hit that breakthrough where I walked into the cage.

00:50:03.000 I mean, Joe, I hated fighting.

00:50:05.000 I didn't really like it that much because I wasn't myself.

00:50:08.000 I wasn't present.

00:50:09.000 I was literally a caged animal, and I hated the way I felt.

00:50:12.000 I was peeing blood after fights because I was just going so crazy, and I was just—and obviously I gained a lot of fans because people loved the way I fight, but they didn't exactly care about my well-being that much.

00:50:22.000 Right.

00:50:23.000 But it wasn't until that fight where I got into the cage and I just started smiling because I thought, Michael, this is your home.

00:50:29.000 Like, this is your home.

00:50:31.000 Because I had visualized it so much.

00:50:33.000 Because the problem with what we talked about earlier is you only get to compete every six months, every eight months.

00:50:37.000 You don't know what that actually feels like.

00:50:38.000 And you can show up to the venue early and you can walk around.

00:50:41.000 You can smell the smells.

00:50:42.000 But there's nothing like competing in the cage.

00:50:45.000 You can't recreate it in sparring.

00:50:46.000 You can't recreate it in the gym.

00:50:48.000 The only really place you can recreate it is in your mind.

00:50:51.000 If you...

00:50:52.000 Just continue to remember.

00:50:53.000 I can remember my last fight like it was yesterday because I've actually gotten better at the skill of visualization because I think that's one thing that happens too is you sit down and maybe you're listening to this podcast and you're like, okay, I'm going to smell the smells of this.

00:51:06.000 I don't want to see the sides of this. 0.99

00:51:08.000 And then you have a really not great visualization session and you're like, man, that was stupid. 1.00

00:51:12.000 That guy's an idiot, you know? 1.00

00:51:13.000 But it really does take... 1.00

00:51:15.000 It really does take a second.

00:51:17.000 It does take actual practice to see and smell and hear and feel.

00:51:22.000 You need to see yourself getting put in compromising situations and then see yourself getting out of it.

00:51:29.000 You need to see yourself...

00:51:33.000 Performing at a ridiculously high level and how that's going to feel and how your brain is 100% bulletproof and how your heart rate is where it needs to be and how you are somehow confidently composed during those fights.

00:51:48.000 Because it used to be the bell would ring and I would go a thousand miles an hour and the times that you've seen me exhausted in fights, I mean I passed out, literally passed out in a fight before.

00:51:58.000 Right at the end of the round, thank God it was at the end of the round, Henry Hoof came and picked me up.

00:52:03.000 My feet were like pigeon-toed. 0.86

00:52:06.000 He was like dragging me back to my corner.

00:52:08.000 I sat down in the cage because I watched the video and all of a sudden my coach out here woke me up.

00:52:13.000 I heard his voice and I turned around.

00:52:16.000 Which fight was that?

00:52:17.000 It was the Benson Henderson fight.

00:52:18.000 Wow.

00:52:19.000 I literally thought the fight was over.

00:52:21.000 And I asked him, I said, did I just get finished?

00:52:23.000 Is this fight over?

00:52:23.000 And he said, no, man, you gotta go.

00:52:25.000 Do you know what happened?

00:52:26.000 Did you get hit?

00:52:28.000 No, it was in...

00:52:31.000 The Benson-Henderson fight going into the fifth round, we were in that weird...

00:52:34.000 I have this thing where I actually like to get...

00:52:37.000 You know that one move where you're basically like this and they catch your arm with the leg and then...

00:52:44.000 Crucifix?

00:52:45.000 Yes.

00:52:45.000 Mounted?

00:52:46.000 That one where, remember the old school where that guy just got elbowed and elbowed him?

00:52:49.000 But I do a backflip over top.

00:52:51.000 Oh, okay.

00:52:52.000 And I always land on top, and it's something that I set up, and I probably shouldn't put myself in a bad situation, but a lot of times I get it, so I like to go there.

00:52:58.000 So you mean like a crucifix where the guy's behind you?

00:53:01.000 Yeah, like he's on his back.

00:53:02.000 And you're on top of him?

00:53:03.000 Yeah, no, he's on his back like this.

00:53:05.000 Okay.

00:53:07.000 Right.

00:53:08.000 And then I did a backflip and I crunched myself up.

00:53:10.000 So I think I kind of crunched myself.

00:53:12.000 Oh, you might have put yourself to sleep.

00:53:13.000 Yeah, almost.

00:53:14.000 And he had kind of a halfway choke, but I wasn't really in a compromise.

00:53:19.000 Oh, here it is right here.

00:53:19.000 Oh my gosh.

00:53:20.000 Come on now.

00:53:20.000 Powerful young Jamie.

00:53:21.000 Yeah, how do you do that?

00:53:23.000 He knows what he's doing.

00:53:24.000 This was Benson's first fight in the UFC after Koreshkov, right?

00:53:30.000 Excuse me, in the Bellator.

00:53:32.000 So he fought Koreshkov at 70, which is crazy.

00:53:36.000 He did not belong in that weight class.

00:53:38.000 So right to this position, and I do this backflip, I always end up on top.

00:53:41.000 So he's got kind of a choke, and then I crunch myself.

00:53:45.000 Boom.

00:53:46.000 And then hopefully...

00:53:47.000 Oh, so you got on top here.

00:53:50.000 And hopefully this shows my dead eyes.

00:53:52.000 Oh, wow.

00:53:53.000 That's so crazy because you look tired.

00:53:55.000 I'm tired, but...

00:53:55.000 Like you were brawling.

00:53:56.000 There's another one that you can find on the internet that you can just look into my eyes.

00:54:01.000 Look.

00:54:02.000 Look. 0.68

00:54:03.000 Look dead.

00:54:05.000 Glazed over eyes.

00:54:06.000 And I looked down at my feet.

00:54:08.000 I looked down at my feet.

00:54:09.000 My feet aren't moving.

00:54:10.000 My feet were like dragging my feet.

00:54:13.000 What happened in the fight where you lost the title where your leg gave out?

00:54:18.000 I stepped back, rolled the ankle, pinched that nerve, and then my foot just went straight.

00:54:24.000 So from rolling the ankle, that's what did it?

00:54:26.000 That's what pinched the nerve?

00:54:27.000 You see where I stepped back?

00:54:29.000 I thought something had broken, like a ligament had given out or something like that.

00:54:33.000 I had no idea.

00:54:34.000 I wish I would have had the hindsight to just not chase.

00:54:38.000 I mean, I have this thing where I love to hit people and run at them and go in for the kill, which has worked very well for me in my career.

00:54:46.000 But in that instance, if I would have either, number one, switched to southpaw because I could push off of it, I just couldn't lift it.

00:54:52.000 So I wish I would have switched to southpaw, or I would have just planted myself in the middle of the cage and waited for him to keep throwing kicks, and I would have kept handling it.

00:55:00.000 I mean, only one punch really got landed in that entire fight, and that was me dropping him.

00:55:04.000 Now, when that happened, how long did it take before your legs started working again?

00:55:08.000 Oh, man, it was scary, man.

00:55:10.000 I mean, two weeks later, or seven days later, I ran five miles.

00:55:14.000 So...

00:55:14.000 Seven days later.

00:55:15.000 Seven days later, but for about three days, I looked down at my foot and my brain was telling me to lift my foot and nothing was happening, man.

00:55:22.000 I thought it was, it was a scary time.

00:55:24.000 I mean, I got...

00:55:25.000 So you were wondering whether or not you had permanent nerve damage in your foot.

00:55:29.000 Yeah, and I had, and I got a great...

00:55:30.000 A great staff around me.

00:55:32.000 I mean, my manager has hooked all of us up with Sanford Medical up in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

00:55:39.000 Dr. Reeves, orthopedic surgeon.

00:55:40.000 Dr. Troy Gust, neurosurgeon.

00:55:43.000 And what did they say when they looked at it?

00:55:45.000 He just said you just have a pinched nerve whenever you did that.

00:55:50.000 That is crazy.

00:55:52.000 I've never seen that before.

00:55:54.000 Unfortunate.

00:55:55.000 It was horrible, you know, but it was just one of those things.

00:55:58.000 And that was my, yeah, I'm on a six out of seven, and that was my one loss.

00:56:03.000 Yeah, that was a weird one, too, because it was a fight where it was kind of just getting going.

00:56:09.000 And when your foot started doing that, I remember watching it going, whoa, is his ankle broke?

00:56:13.000 What's going on here?

00:56:14.000 This is weird.

00:56:15.000 I mean, it's one of those things, too, where I've talked to Big John about it.

00:56:18.000 I've talked to Herb Dean about it.

00:56:20.000 I've talked to all these guys.

00:56:20.000 I'm like, man, would you have stopped that fight?

00:56:22.000 And then they're both like, man, it looked really bad.

00:56:24.000 It looked bad.

00:56:25.000 But you're still up and you're conscious.

00:56:28.000 I'm still up and conscious, and I wasn't taking damage.

00:56:30.000 I could imagine, like, you know, I mean, what's his name?

00:56:35.000 O'Malley hurt his foot and he was like, he couldn't even walk and he was falling down and he was about to start getting beat up.

00:56:41.000 Like, I was still on my feet.

00:56:42.000 I was still fighting.

00:56:43.000 Did it look really bad?

00:56:44.000 Did it look like a wounded deer out in the middle of the field?

00:56:46.000 You know, like, of course.

00:56:47.000 But...

00:56:49.000 I always say if this was back in the Viking days and you chop one of my legs off and it's me versus him to the battle of the death, I'm still winning that fight 10 times out of 10. So you wish the fight kept going?

00:57:01.000 100%.

00:57:01.000 It's a weird way to stop a fight too when a guy's not taking damage.

00:57:05.000 He's just got a leg that's not working properly.

00:57:07.000 Well, and the problem was too, he basically called timeout and asked for the doctors to come in.

00:57:13.000 Once you've done that, the fight's over.

00:57:14.000 I think the ref literally thought...

00:57:17.000 He should have just called the fight, right?

00:57:19.000 Did he think your leg was broken or something?

00:57:20.000 What was his thought process?

00:57:22.000 I guess.

00:57:23.000 And then the doctors came in, and they started feeling around, and they're like, right here, I think his tibia is fractured.

00:57:28.000 I can feel the bone, and I'm like, Doc, I promise you, just get out of here.

00:57:31.000 Let me fight.

00:57:32.000 I got a calf cramp or something.

00:57:35.000 I was just lying to him.

00:57:36.000 Just get out of here. 0.96

00:57:37.000 Let me go.

00:57:38.000 I promise.

00:57:39.000 It's fine.

00:57:39.000 I don't feel a thing.

00:57:40.000 It's not hurt.

00:57:41.000 I'm good.

00:57:42.000 And then they stopped the fight.

00:57:44.000 Then they pulled the stool.

00:57:45.000 They pulled the stool from me, too, so...

00:57:47.000 Remember that?

00:57:47.000 Oh yeah, that's right.

00:57:48.000 What was that about?

00:57:50.000 That was my commissioner.

00:57:51.000 That was New York Athletic Commission at its best.

00:57:54.000 Pulling the stool and I fell.

00:57:56.000 And then a bunch of people were like, hey man, did they call the fight because they thought you couldn't stand?

00:58:01.000 And I said, no, I hope not because that would have been very unfortunate because I fell.

00:58:05.000 On national TV, got Charlie Brown.

00:58:08.000 All three stooges, Moe Lairley, Curly, thanks for nothing, Doc.

00:58:11.000 Yeah, why did they pull a stool? 0.91

00:58:13.000 I don't know.

00:58:14.000 Was it just a mistake?

00:58:14.000 I think I stood up.

00:58:16.000 I was like, hey, maybe if I get the crowd into it, maybe these guys will get out of here and let the fight go.

00:58:19.000 So I stood up and I was like, let's go! 0.79

00:58:22.000 And I was sitting on the stool and I freaking looked at him and I was like, you better hope they don't let me off this stool, boy, because I'm going to come break your face. 0.97

00:58:28.000 And then I stand up and then the guy pulls the stool and then a second later I'm on my butt. 0.89

00:58:33.000 Now, why didn't the rematch take place?

00:58:36.000 Man, I asked for it in October.

00:58:37.000 I asked for it in November.

00:58:39.000 I asked for it in December. 1.00

00:58:40.000 And then finally I'm like, man, this is stupid. 0.97

00:58:41.000 I'm going to go ahead and take a fight against the scariest guy in the lightweight division, Yamauchi. 0.99

00:58:45.000 And then he got injured.

00:58:48.000 So then I fought Brandon Gertz.

00:58:49.000 So it's like...

00:58:51.000 I've never once pulled out of a fight.

00:58:52.000 I've went into many fights injured.

00:58:54.000 I've never once not answered the call.

00:58:56.000 I've always stepped up and I've always been the most exciting guy in Bellator.

00:58:59.000 Will forever be the most exciting guy in Bellator.

00:59:02.000 So it's unfortunate that these things happen to me, but it's just part of it, man.

00:59:07.000 It's a long time though to go without a rematch.

00:59:10.000 You know, I mean to be clamored for it and he hasn't defended the title, correct?

00:59:14.000 No, he's a part-time fighter.

00:59:15.000 Part-time?

00:59:16.000 Part-time.

00:59:17.000 What does he do full-time?

00:59:18.000 I don't know.

00:59:18.000 I think he teaches kids Jiu-Jitsu or something.

00:59:21.000 I don't know.

00:59:22.000 I don't know what he does.

00:59:23.000 I mean, honestly, it's baffling.

00:59:25.000 Well, does Bellator even have a heavyweight champ?

00:59:29.000 I don't know.

00:59:30.000 That's crazy. 1.00

00:59:31.000 How the fuck do you not know? 1.00

00:59:32.000 I don't know. 0.99

00:59:33.000 It would take me a second to think about all the champs in the sport.

00:59:38.000 They've got a stacked welterweight division.

00:59:40.000 Their welterweight division right now with Rory McDonald and Lima and Paul Daly and Lorenz Larkin. 0.99

00:59:47.000 It's a fucking stacked division. 0.96

00:59:49.000 Yeah, it's tough. 1.00

00:59:50.000 Korshkov.

00:59:51.000 I was asking for the Paul Daly fight.

00:59:53.000 I was trying to get that fight.

00:59:54.000 Were you?

00:59:55.000 Really?

00:59:55.000 I want to get some big fights.

00:59:57.000 He's terrifying. 1.00

00:59:58.000 That motherfucker can hit. 1.00

01:00:00.000 He can. 1.00

01:00:00.000 Yeah, for about a minute and a half, and then you just break his will. 1.00

01:00:03.000 Well, his grappling has always been his Achilles heel, but goddamn that left hand is a missile. 0.80

01:00:08.000 Yeah, that Lorenz Larkin fight where he knocked him out on his feet, and he was just kind of like... 0.95

01:00:14.000 Yeah.

01:00:14.000 There, but not really there.

01:00:15.000 Paul Dilley can do that to anybody.

01:00:17.000 That left hand he has.

01:00:18.000 That, to me, was one of the most frustrating ones when he fought Josh Koscheck and threw that punch afterwards, and he got kicked out of the UFC basically forever. 0.96

01:00:30.000 And now you see, like, Connor throwing dollies through windows and all this shit.

01:00:34.000 I'm like, well, what about Paul Daly? 1.00

01:00:35.000 Paul Daly's got to be going, what the fuck, man? 0.99

01:00:38.000 I got kicked out forever for this? 1.00

01:00:40.000 I didn't even throw a punch that landed.

01:00:42.000 Yeah, he's like, I wish I was in it when it was the entertainment business, you know?

01:00:45.000 Guys like him, though, are very interesting where he's such a specialist, you know?

01:00:50.000 He's such a striking specialist.

01:00:52.000 Yeah.

01:00:52.000 I watched him kickbox, actually, because, you know, Bellator does those kickboxing in MMA, and he kickboxed...

01:01:00.000 Fernando Gonzalez, I believe.

01:01:03.000 He's good. 0.88

01:01:04.000 He's a beast.

01:01:05.000 Especially in that kickboxing range when he knows there's no takedowns, when he knows there's no threat, and there's a different distance there, and he's really good at that kickboxing range.

01:01:13.000 Unless you're there to be able to really threaten with the takedown, he's going to be on his game.

01:01:19.000 One of my favorite fights of his forever will be that fight with Nick Diaz, which was just fantastic. 0.97

01:01:24.000 Fucking one round of chaos! 0.97

01:01:27.000 Just chaos! 0.99

01:01:28.000 Until Nick Diaz overwhelmed him.

01:01:30.000 But Nick just puts that crazy triathlon pace on you where you just can't keep up with him.

01:01:35.000 I know.

01:01:36.000 He just doesn't give you any break.

01:01:37.000 I know.

01:01:37.000 And those guys, both Nick and Nate, have done a very good job of not being afraid to take some damage, let guys really swarm him.

01:01:46.000 And they do have that cardio, but I think they just have that stocked in just Confidence.

01:01:51.000 And almost just like that.

01:01:53.000 I've actually, the funny thing is like me and Michael Johnson sparred numerous times where we're kind of like talking to each other because that's against my, that was against my nature.

01:02:00.000 Like that, that cocky braggadocious talking during the fight type of deal.

01:02:04.000 I mean, once again, that's practice of, of almost an alter ego, almost a little bit different.

01:02:09.000 In my last couple of fights, you've seen me be more present, talking a little bit, almost kind of egging, egging them on, like not being afraid.

01:02:15.000 It used to just be like business, business, business, gotta fight.

01:02:18.000 Now it's like, hey man, I'm in here.

01:02:19.000 You're fighting somebody who's cognitively here.

01:02:22.000 My two feet are planted firmly on this ground.

01:02:24.000 Right, you're not overwhelmed by the moment.

01:02:26.000 I'm 100% present.

01:02:27.000 You're in the zone.

01:02:28.000 100% present and in the zone, like in the zone, ready to die in there, not afraid to, but also willing to fight a very smart fight, smart, sharp, composed.

01:02:38.000 Missing shots, taking shots or taking takedowns when I want to and need to, and not being afraid to just fight like an extremely talented veteran rather than just a vessel of violence, you know?

01:02:51.000 Yeah, a vessel of violence.

01:02:52.000 That's an interesting way to put it.

01:02:53.000 To think of yourself as a professional, like doing your best to execute your skill set in such an extreme circumstance.

01:03:02.000 And how many fights have you had now?

01:03:05.000 22. How many fights do you think it took before you felt that comfortable?

01:03:13.000 17?

01:03:13.000 Isn't that crazy?

01:03:14.000 Yeah, man.

01:03:15.000 I'm not joking. 0.95

01:03:17.000 It's ridiculous.

01:03:18.000 Now I know why so many people just have a short MMA career and then they're done.

01:03:23.000 It's hard.

01:03:25.000 And that's with my career going really well.

01:03:28.000 I've signed some good contracts and been able to do some really good stuff and had some big fights and had some good success.

01:03:36.000 And I can imagine these people going through the grind and then all of a sudden you get injured or all of a sudden your manager screws you over and all of a sudden this and that.

01:03:42.000 And I've had a really relatively, not easy road, but I've had a really good path.

01:03:48.000 But I can see how people are like, man, I'm done with this.

01:03:50.000 And I think going back to your point too, where you talk about fighting like a veteran, I think it's all based on the confidence too.

01:04:00.000 And I see it time and time again.

01:04:02.000 Guys only have one option, and that's to fight like a crazy madman because they don't have 100% confidence in their skills.

01:04:09.000 And I think that's why you saw early in my career I fought like a madman because I wasn't 100% confident in my skills.

01:04:15.000 I was 100% confident in my cardio, my heart, my willingness to just take damage, my willingness to die inside the cage.

01:04:22.000 I was confident in that.

01:04:23.000 I stood against Eddie Alvarez.

01:04:26.000 I was 16, 18 months removed from a college wrestling room and said, I'm going to beat that guy.

01:04:30.000 I'm not supposed to beat him on paper.

01:04:32.000 I'm not supposed to beat him record wise.

01:04:34.000 I'm not supposed to beat him in any other universe besides right here in my mind.

01:04:38.000 I said, I'm going to beat that guy.

01:04:39.000 And I did it just by sheer toughness.

01:04:42.000 So I believe in my toughness and my cardio and my heart and all that kind of stuff.

01:04:45.000 But I didn't 100% believe in my skills.

01:04:47.000 So then all of a sudden you start to mature a little bit and you start to realize that you have these skills, you have these bag of tools to use, and you can use them not just effectively, but you can use them efficiently and smart.

01:05:00.000 Under pressure.

01:05:01.000 Under pressure, yeah.

01:05:03.000 And there's still times where you've got to...

01:05:06.000 You've got to gut check.

01:05:07.000 And that's a good thing that I know I have in my back pocket is I get in a fight with one of these guys and he's outmatching me.

01:05:14.000 He's outclassing me.

01:05:15.000 He has better technique than me.

01:05:17.000 He's on that night and I'm off.

01:05:19.000 He's technique-wise.

01:05:20.000 He's not tougher than I am.

01:05:21.000 He doesn't have better cardio than I do.

01:05:23.000 He's not willing to literally take as much damage as I am and keep coming forward.

01:05:27.000 He's not willing to do that.

01:05:28.000 And that's what I've always had the confidence in.

01:05:30.000 But now I have the confidence in my skill sets as well. 0.70

01:05:32.000 When you see a guy like, he's one of my favorite examples, Justin Gaethje, who's just a fucking savage, but you see him go undefeated in World Series of Fighting, what do they call it now?

01:05:46.000 Professional Fighting League? 0.83

01:05:48.000 Is that what they call it?

01:05:48.000 Professional Fight League, yeah.

01:05:49.000 Is that it?

01:05:49.000 Yeah.

01:05:50.000 So he goes undefeated in World Series of Fighting. 0.98

01:05:52.000 One of the most interesting and intriguing contenders to enter into the UFC has a spectacular debut against Michael Johnson in a fucking war. 0.99

01:06:02.000 I mean just a fucking war. 0.99

01:06:05.000 And then... 0.99

01:06:06.000 Loses to Eddie Alvarez in spectacular fashion, and then loses to Dustin Poirier in spectacular fashion.

01:06:12.000 But just in those three fights has taken so much damage.

01:06:17.000 It's just crazy to watch his style when you know that he's a very good wrestler.

01:06:22.000 He's a smart guy.

01:06:24.000 And, I mean, Trevor Whitman, his coach, his striking coach, this is the same coach that...

01:06:31.000 Coach Thug Rose, and you look at her footwork and movement. 0.99

01:06:34.000 She's turning into a technique machine. 1.00

01:06:36.000 A technique machine!

01:06:37.000 Sliding away from things, entering in, constantly moving, presenting angles and different looks.

01:06:44.000 And Justin is just hands up high, moving in on you, and just leg kicks from close distance and brawling.

01:06:52.000 That guy can't do that very long.

01:06:55.000 Crazy that he admitted that.

01:06:58.000 That interview just came out there.

01:06:59.000 He said, I only have five fights left in me.

01:07:01.000 I want them to be good ones.

01:07:02.000 Is that what he said?

01:07:03.000 Yeah.

01:07:04.000 I mean, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he had an interview that said, I only have five fights left in me.

01:07:09.000 And it's crazy to see that because when you're already...

01:07:13.000 I mean, he's younger than I am.

01:07:14.000 He's like 29, isn't he?

01:07:16.000 28?

01:07:16.000 I think he's something like that.

01:07:17.000 I don't even know if he's 30, you know?

01:07:19.000 I don't think he is.

01:07:19.000 And this might be a guy...

01:07:21.000 Didn't he start late?

01:07:22.000 Didn't he wrestle in college?

01:07:24.000 Yeah, I don't think he started even striking until he was 21. Yeah, so he's only been fighting for eight years, you know?

01:07:32.000 And...

01:07:32.000 And I think it goes back to, when I look at him, you know, it's not a knock on him or whatever.

01:07:38.000 I just don't think he has the confidence in his abilities.

01:07:41.000 I think...

01:07:41.000 But there's a fine line between having confidence in your abilities, confidence in your striking techniques, your ability to win any other way than a brawl.

01:07:52.000 Because I've had these thoughts too.

01:07:53.000 Man, I've sat...

01:07:54.000 And I've thought and the thought of me just outclassing somebody and piecing them up and the whole world watching and hearing the announcer saying, oh my God, Michael Chandler striking is on another level.

01:08:04.000 Look at this.

01:08:05.000 And how he strings together his punches with his kicks and blah, blah, blah.

01:08:08.000 That felt foreign and it felt uncomfortable to me because I didn't 100% truly believe in that stuff until recently.

01:08:15.000 And I think he only has the capacity to believe in himself as a brawler.

01:08:21.000 Therefore, that's the only way he knows how to win.

01:08:23.000 Therefore, in his sparring rounds, he's not...

01:08:26.000 I bet you and I could go watch him and he's the same Justin Gaethje in those sparring rounds as he is in the cage.

01:08:32.000 But is that because...

01:08:34.000 Here's no regrets.

01:08:36.000 Five fights left.

01:08:37.000 That's a tough spot to be in, you know?

01:08:39.000 But...

01:08:39.000 That's just his mentality, though.

01:08:41.000 I wonder if you're right about that, because I think he likes that kind of fighting.

01:08:46.000 Well, that's the thing, too.

01:08:47.000 I think that's what he enjoys.

01:08:49.000 He likes breaking people.

01:08:50.000 Like when he broke Michael Johnson, he just broke him.

01:08:53.000 Hey, man, the fans love it.

01:08:54.000 You want some fans?

01:08:55.000 You want some fans?

01:08:56.000 You have a couple of those.

01:08:57.000 He's got a great following now after, like you said, just a couple of fights.

01:09:01.000 People believe in him.

01:09:02.000 People still right now...

01:09:04.000 They see this cyborg robot step into the cage.

01:09:08.000 That's what they think.

01:09:08.000 They don't even look at him as a man.

01:09:10.000 They don't look at him like he has a heart and a spirit in his brain.

01:09:12.000 They just look at a guy who goes out there and he's going to just freaking try to break somebody just through sheer, not beautiful technique, but just pressure and punch count and leg kicks and that kind of stuff.

01:09:23.000 And he's going to step in the cage against whoever he steps in the cage against, even though he lost his last two fights.

01:09:27.000 And he's still going to be...

01:09:29.000 The favorite, I believe.

01:09:31.000 Well, he's one of the best leg kickers in the sport.

01:09:33.000 Just crazy that he started striking so late. 0.99

01:09:36.000 Everybody gets their legs fucked up with that guy. 1.00

01:09:39.000 And he leg kicks the shit out of people from close range, too. 1.00

01:09:42.000 Which is weird. 0.99

01:09:43.000 Like, literally be in the clinch, and he's whipping down on your legs.

01:09:48.000 I just think he loves chaos.

01:09:50.000 I just think he loves it.

01:09:51.000 He embraces it. 0.99

01:09:53.000 When shit gets crazy, that's when he's at his most comfortable. 0.99

01:09:57.000 Maybe that's me speaking from experience. 0.99

01:09:59.000 I see a lot of my early career very similar to that.

01:10:03.000 Just...

01:10:04.000 brawling, you know, like that's, that's what I did.

01:10:06.000 And then I, then I decided I have these physical gifts and the speed and the power and the ability, the, the mental capacity to, to pick things up.

01:10:13.000 I mean, I, I, I have been blessed with very, the ability to pick things up very, very quickly and, and two practices.

01:10:20.000 I'm like, holy cow, this stuff's working just after a couple of mid sessions, you know, But Justin's shown no indication that he even enjoys doing any other kind of fighting.

01:10:29.000 I know.

01:10:29.000 Like, you use a lot of footwork and movement.

01:10:31.000 You slide in and out.

01:10:32.000 Like, the Patricky Pitbull fight was a great example of that.

01:10:34.000 You slid in and dropped that right hand on him. 0.60

01:10:37.000 It was a perfect closure of distance, and you launched a missile on him. 1.00

01:10:41.000 Gagey's just, here it comes, bitch. 1.00

01:10:43.000 Here it comes. 1.00

01:10:43.000 It's coming. 1.00

01:10:44.000 It's coming.

01:10:45.000 And that's scary, man.

01:10:46.000 Anybody in the lightweight division is lying when they're not a little bit shaken.

01:10:50.000 Like, dang, I've got to freaking fight that dude.

01:10:52.000 He's that guy in the bracket.

01:10:54.000 Wrestling, there's the guy who's not really ranked.

01:10:59.000 He's seeded No.

01:11:00.000 8, or he's not even seeded, but you know he's a goer.

01:11:03.000 You know he's tough.

01:11:03.000 You know he's strong.

01:11:04.000 You know he's not that good, but he's going to be in your face for seven minutes, and you could lose to him because he's that good.

01:11:10.000 He's not the guy you want to draw first round.

01:11:12.000 If I was Gagey, I would say take some time off and really reconsider your approach because that chaos is always going to be there.

01:11:19.000 The chaos is always going to be there.

01:11:21.000 He's always going to be able to do that.

01:11:22.000 He's always going to love that.

01:11:23.000 He's always going to have some of the best leg kicks in the sport.

01:11:26.000 Just use a little more footwork.

01:11:27.000 Use a little more movement.

01:11:29.000 How about some feints?

01:11:30.000 How about every now and then a little bit of this?

01:11:32.000 How about every now and then?

01:11:33.000 Just a little bit of that.

01:11:35.000 Switch up stances.

01:11:37.000 A little bit of takedowns.

01:11:38.000 How about throwing a takedown?

01:11:40.000 Or even touching a leg.

01:11:41.000 Just touch a leg.

01:11:41.000 Make him think.

01:11:43.000 He's a fucking good wrestler. 1.00

01:11:44.000 Kid's a good wrestler. 1.00

01:11:46.000 In Northern Colorado.

01:11:46.000 Yes.

01:11:49.000 And then the other part of me says, shut the fuck up, Rogan. 1.00

01:11:51.000 Let him fight like that because it's awesome. 1.00

01:11:53.000 I mean, that's his thing. 0.97

01:11:54.000 That Poirier fight was fucking amazing. 0.99

01:11:57.000 And the Michael Johnson fight was fucking amazing. 0.99

01:11:59.000 Even the Eddie Alvarez fight. 0.97

01:12:00.000 It was chaos.

01:12:00.000 It was.

01:12:01.000 Up until the moment Eddie landed that knee and Eddie's leg was in trouble.

01:12:04.000 Bad.

01:12:04.000 He was in trouble.

01:12:05.000 I was waiting for Eddie to go down.

01:12:08.000 Eddie's got that boxing stance, and he gets low, and he puts a lot of weight on his legs, and he's got a lot of confidence in his hands, but Donald took advantage of that in his first fight in the UFC. When you saw Eddie beat Rafael dos Anjos and win the title, what was that feeling for you, knowing that you shared all those rounds with him, those two crazy wars?

01:12:31.000 Was that feeling like, fuck, that could be me? 0.93

01:12:34.000 Yeah, I mean, that's kind of the... 0.99

01:12:37.000 When I watched it, I was in Salt Lake City, actually.

01:12:41.000 No, Park City, Utah.

01:12:42.000 I was at a wedding, and so we were all just hanging out, and I was like, the fight's on, and I was watching it.

01:12:46.000 I couldn't hear it, but I was watching it, and he was just throwing that flurry, and everybody I was with was like, holy cow, you beat that guy twice.

01:12:56.000 Once?

01:12:57.000 Twice.

01:12:59.000 Once?

01:13:00.000 Once the judges disagree with you.

01:13:02.000 No, I'm just joking.

01:13:05.000 That's the sport, and I love it.

01:13:07.000 But fought that guy twice to very close fights.

01:13:11.000 It's kind of one of those things where I was like, man.

01:13:13.000 But I knew it.

01:13:14.000 I knew he was going to go over there and he was going to do extremely well.

01:13:18.000 I didn't know he was going to come in.

01:13:19.000 He lost to Donald Cerrone.

01:13:22.000 Beat Gilbert.

01:13:23.000 He beat Pettis.

01:13:24.000 He beat...

01:13:25.000 Another guy, I believe.

01:13:26.000 I think it was just those two.

01:13:27.000 I think it was just those two and then he got the title fight.

01:13:30.000 I think.

01:13:31.000 I might be wrong.

01:13:32.000 He would pull up his record.

01:13:33.000 But either way, what I admire about Eddie is the same thing that I admire about you, is that he does thrive on those wild fights.

01:13:42.000 You know, I mean, he's just...

01:13:44.000 Just an unbelievably tough guy.

01:13:46.000 And the Gagey fight was a perfect example of that. 0.98

01:13:47.000 I mean, he got fucking hurt in that fight, man. 0.97

01:13:49.000 His leg was chewed up. 0.99

01:13:51.000 I don't know what was going on with his face.

01:13:54.000 You guys were calling it out.

01:13:55.000 We were trying to figure out what it was.

01:13:56.000 Yeah.

01:13:58.000 Okay.

01:13:59.000 Gilbert, Pettis, and then Dos Anjos.

01:14:01.000 Yeah, it was just those two.

01:14:02.000 And then the loss to Donald.

01:14:04.000 But those two fights where Pettis was a champion at lightweight and was, at that time, still thought to be in the mix.

01:14:14.000 Had beaten Gilbert.

01:14:16.000 Submitted Gilbert.

01:14:17.000 And Gilbert, of course, from the Strikeforce fights, mad respect for Gilbert. 0.99

01:14:20.000 He's one of the best in the fucking world. 0.98

01:14:22.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:14:23.000 I mean, it's just, when you really stop and think about how fucking tightly matched that lightweight division is, and how many killers are in that division, that is a fucking crazy division. 0.93

01:14:37.000 And in the UFC right now, you got Khabib, you got Tony Ferguson, you might have Max Holloway. 0.90

01:14:42.000 I mean, it's crazy that Max Holloway got pulled from the New York car because he was having trouble making weight.

01:14:47.000 And he's the 145-pound champion, which is just...

01:14:50.000 He's a tall boy.

01:14:51.000 He's a big fella.

01:14:52.000 He's a tall boy. 1.00

01:14:52.000 He's a tough motherfucker, too. 1.00

01:14:55.000 Holy shit, is he tough. 1.00

01:14:56.000 He's just got this incredible wealth of talent in this one division, you know? 1.00

01:15:01.000 And then Kevin Lee, how fucking good did he look against Barboza? 0.80

01:15:05.000 He did look really good. 1.00

01:15:05.000 Holy shit! 1.00

01:15:06.000 He did look really good. 1.00

01:15:08.000 Fucking stud. 0.98

01:15:09.000 So you've got so many good fighters in this one division. 0.99

01:15:14.000 And this is why we gotta bring you into the UFC. Come on, man.

01:15:17.000 Is that why we gotta do it? 0.99

01:15:18.000 What kind of fucking contract do you have in Bellator? 0.99

01:15:20.000 We gotta talk, Michael Chandler. 1.00

01:15:22.000 Can we talk about it?

01:15:23.000 32, man.

01:15:24.000 You're gonna be 33, then you'll be 35, then you'll be 40. And then it'll be over.

01:15:28.000 Yeah, I'm 50. Trust me.

01:15:30.000 It happens.

01:15:31.000 It just happens.

01:15:31.000 I hope I look like you when I'm 50. It just comes.

01:15:34.000 If you will, you won't pass any drug test.

01:15:36.000 I'll tell you right now.

01:15:39.000 But we gotta get you in here, man.

01:15:42.000 There's just no other way to do it.

01:15:44.000 Well, we're trying to figure everything out right now.

01:15:47.000 Disrespect Bellator.

01:15:49.000 How about some cross promosh?

01:15:51.000 How about move some people around?

01:15:52.000 How cool would that be, huh?

01:15:53.000 I would love that.

01:15:54.000 I really would.

01:15:55.000 I said when Rory went over to fight in Bellator, I said he very well might be, shout out to powerful Rory McDonald, very well might be the best 170 pound fighter in the world.

01:16:07.000 It's very possible.

01:16:08.000 It's very possible he is.

01:16:09.000 I mean, if he's not...

01:16:11.000 He's certainly in the mix.

01:16:13.000 And he might be on any given day.

01:16:15.000 This is the thing.

01:16:16.000 You just really don't know.

01:16:18.000 But if you look at his fight with Tyron Woodley, he essentially shut Woodley's main offense down and used a brilliant strategy to beat him by decision.

01:16:27.000 If you look at his fight with Maia, he got in the worst possible position with Maia.

01:16:31.000 Maia mounted on him in the first round when they're not even that sweaty yet.

01:16:35.000 And he was able to survive that and then pick Maia apart.

01:16:38.000 He's one of the best in the world.

01:16:39.000 He beats Lima, who I think is extremely underrated.

01:16:43.000 I think Lima is one of the very best fighters on the planet Earth.

01:16:47.000 And just people don't know because...

01:16:50.000 For whatever reason, Bellator just has not been able to capture the public's imagination the same way the UFC has.

01:16:57.000 They've definitely grown big time. 0.94

01:17:00.000 The last fight card was fucking incredible. 0.86

01:17:02.000 It's cool because I've been there for the maturation of the whole thing. 0.96

01:17:06.000 My first fight was on ESPN Deportes that finally aired at 2 in the morning after a couple girls' high school softball games.

01:17:15.000 That was our slot.

01:17:17.000 And then it moved to MTV2 and then Spike and now Paramount Network.

01:17:20.000 And now it's simulcasted now on CMT and Paramount Network.

01:17:23.000 So it's cool to see the growth.

01:17:25.000 It's cool to see...

01:17:25.000 I mean, it's growing.

01:17:27.000 And it's been cool to be a part of the growth.

01:17:30.000 I mean, I will forever probably be in the biggest fights or the most exciting fights in Bellator history.

01:17:35.000 So it's...

01:17:36.000 Yeah, I'm not a Bellator hater by any stretch of the imagination.

01:17:39.000 And even though, obviously, I've been working for the UFC for a long time, I'm a fan of fights.

01:17:44.000 And I like high-level fights.

01:17:47.000 I mean, obviously I'm loyal to the UFC, but I don't want Bellator to fail.

01:17:52.000 I want them to succeed.

01:17:53.000 I like the fact that they have Rory McDonald.

01:17:56.000 So there's an argument.

01:17:58.000 Like, you look at it, you go, hey, this might be the best 170-pound fighter in the world, and he's not in the UFC. Like, this is all good.

01:18:05.000 I felt it the same way when Fedor was fighting in Pride. 0.95

01:18:08.000 I was like, look, that might be the best fucking heavyweight on the planet Earth, and he's not here.

01:18:12.000 And I tried very hard to try to figure out a way to get him over there, but... 0.93

01:18:17.000 They were super unreasonable back then.

01:18:18.000 Not the UFC, Fedor's management.

01:18:20.000 They were crazy unreasonable.

01:18:22.000 They wanted co-promotion.

01:18:23.000 They wanted a 50-50 split. 0.97

01:18:24.000 The UFC was like, get the fuck out of here.

01:18:27.000 They were like, this ain't happening, man.

01:18:29.000 And they were also saying, look, this guy is one loss away.

01:18:33.000 From losing all of his value.

01:18:35.000 You have to understand this. 0.99

01:18:36.000 And then when Fabricio Verdum caught him with that triangle, the UFC was like, we fucking told you. 0.97

01:18:43.000 We told you. 0.98

01:18:43.000 And then Bigfoot Silva smashed him. 0.98

01:18:45.000 And then Dan Henderson KO'd him. 0.99

01:18:47.000 And the UFC was like, look, we fucking told you. 0.97

01:18:49.000 You had an opportunity to bring him over here. 0.98

01:18:52.000 And that was a different time.

01:18:54.000 It was when Fedor was in his prime.

01:18:56.000 It was when Fedor was smashing people in pride.

01:19:00.000 It was just a different human being than what you're seeing today at 41. But I'm a fan of the best fighters in the world getting together.

01:19:09.000 And whatever we have to do to facilitate that, that's what I want to see happen.

01:19:14.000 I just think that there's got to be a way to make this happen.

01:19:20.000 There's got to be a way.

01:19:21.000 What are you talking about here?

01:19:22.000 You! 0.99

01:19:27.000 I'm going day by day.

01:19:29.000 I'm enjoying the process.

01:19:31.000 We're in talks right now.

01:19:33.000 Things are going smoothly.

01:19:35.000 Things are moving forward.

01:19:36.000 We'll see what happens.

01:19:38.000 I know you have to say all this.

01:19:40.000 That is true.

01:19:42.000 But you want to fight the best guys in the world.

01:19:44.000 I know you do.

01:19:45.000 Oh, there's not a day that goes by that I don't get...

01:19:47.000 I mean, shoot, you posted that thing this morning, and there was 287 comments in five minutes, and it was all like, finally, hey, when are you going to come?

01:19:58.000 And I get that every single day, so there's not a day that goes by that...

01:20:03.000 It doesn't get talked about or thought about.

01:20:05.000 Especially after Eddie went over there and became the champion.

01:20:08.000 Everybody knows about it.

01:20:09.000 It's one of the things that I talked about when Eddie first came over to the UFC. I was telling people, go watch the wars that he had with Michael Chandler.

01:20:18.000 And then I've said that also, too, when I've seen you coaching people or being in someone's corner.

01:20:21.000 That right there is one of the best lightweights on the planet.

01:20:24.000 And I just really would love to see you...

01:20:26.000 I mean, I don't want to undercut Bellator.

01:20:29.000 I don't want Bellator to...

01:20:31.000 At the end of the day, it's a competition between the two organizations.

01:20:37.000 There's guys in both organizations that are great.

01:20:38.000 Like you said, Lima and all these guys.

01:20:41.000 And Koreshkoff.

01:20:43.000 And the Pitbull brothers or whatever.

01:20:45.000 There's some great talent in both.

01:20:47.000 And you saw it back in the day with Strikeforce.

01:20:49.000 And now all of a sudden...

01:20:51.000 A lot of these Strikeforce guys are UFC champions as well.

01:20:54.000 Well, it's just weird the way fighting is today as opposed to the way boxing is.

01:20:59.000 A perfect example is the Gennady Golovkin fight this weekend.

01:21:04.000 We went to see him and you're basically going to see one of the best boxers on the planet. 0.90

01:21:11.000 You're not going to see him because he's You know, the fucking WBC guy or the IBF guy or the WBO guy. 0.99

01:21:18.000 People don't really give a shit about that. 0.99

01:21:20.000 He's a world champion. 0.98

01:21:22.000 But it's versus Bellator versus the UFC. It's a big difference.

01:21:29.000 In the way people look at it, like the average public. 0.97

01:21:32.000 The people don't give a shit if you're the WBA champion in boxing or the WBC champion. 1.00

01:21:37.000 They don't give a shit. 1.00

01:21:38.000 They just want to know who's a bad motherfucker. 1.00

01:21:40.000 Is it Deontay Wilder? 0.99

01:21:42.000 Is it Anthony Joshua?

01:21:44.000 These are heavyweight champions.

01:21:46.000 Let's see them fight.

01:21:47.000 They don't look at it that way when it comes to Bellator and the UFC. I don't know why.

01:21:52.000 My speculation is, first of all, because UFC's been around forever and it's like the NFL. It has that name value.

01:21:58.000 Like Q-tips and Kleenex.

01:22:00.000 They've done a good job of building the name value as well.

01:22:02.000 It's also a really good name.

01:22:04.000 UFC's a great name. 0.99

01:22:05.000 Bellator is a shitty name. 0.98

01:22:07.000 It just is. 0.99

01:22:08.000 It's just, you know, you go to the average person, like, oh, I'm gonna watch Bellator tonight. 0.99

01:22:13.000 They're like, what the fuck is a Bellator? 0.71

01:22:15.000 They don't know what a Bellator is, but ultimate fighting championship makes sense. 0.96

01:22:19.000 Makes sense, yeah.

01:22:20.000 Why don't they just call it Paramount MMA? I think there was all kinds of new branding going on with the whole new Paramount stuff and all that kind of stuff.

01:22:31.000 If there was ever a time, it would have been now.

01:22:33.000 But I think they're stuck to it.

01:22:34.000 They like it.

01:22:35.000 It's kind of one of them things.

01:22:36.000 They should get their money back from Spike Lee.

01:22:38.000 Remember when they had to pay Spike Lee?

01:22:39.000 Did they?

01:22:40.000 Yeah, they paid him off.

01:22:41.000 He sued them.

01:22:43.000 No, he sued them.

01:22:44.000 He said that you stole the name from me. 1.00

01:22:47.000 And they were like, what the fuck? 0.99

01:22:48.000 It's basically just one of those frivolous lawsuits that you have to settle. 0.99

01:22:52.000 Spike wanted some cash.

01:22:54.000 I wonder how much they gave him.

01:22:56.000 How much do you think they gave him?

01:22:57.000 Let's take a guess.

01:22:58.000 How much do you think they gave Spike Lee?

01:22:59.000 3.2 million.

01:23:01.000 Really that much?

01:23:01.000 No, I don't know.

01:23:02.000 I made that up.

01:23:03.000 A million?

01:23:03.000 You think they gave him a million?

01:23:04.000 Maybe, yeah.

01:23:05.000 I bet they gave him a million.

01:23:06.000 I bet you're right.

01:23:06.000 I'm gonna go with 1.2.

01:23:08.000 I'm gonna be in the middle.

01:23:09.000 I'm gonna be the middle guy.

01:23:11.000 Let's see how much they got.

01:23:12.000 Spike Lee.

01:23:12.000 Do you think they disclosed it?

01:23:13.000 Did he actually trademark Spike TV? Someday he might actually have his own TV channel.

01:23:19.000 I think his thought was, what about Spike Jones? 0.99

01:23:24.000 Is he like, where's my fucking money? 0.97

01:23:25.000 I think he just felt like the name Spike was synonymous with him. 0.99

01:23:32.000 I don't know.

01:23:34.000 Spike was a dog, right?

01:23:36.000 Wasn't that like the logo?

01:23:37.000 Oh yeah, because the UFC, the Ultimate Fighter was on Spike TV, right?

01:23:42.000 Yeah! 0.99

01:23:42.000 Fuck yeah, 2005. Stephen Bonner, Forrest Griffin. 0.99

01:23:46.000 Forever in debt to those guys.

01:23:47.000 They made the sport, that one crazy fight literally was like probably one of the big pushes to make this fight.

01:23:53.000 Undisclosed.

01:23:54.000 Undisclosed.

01:23:55.000 Holler at me, Spike.

01:23:56.000 Tell me what you got.

01:23:57.000 Let us know.

01:23:58.000 Let us know, Spike.

01:23:59.000 Joint public statement that they settled their differences.

01:24:02.000 Yeah.

01:24:03.000 Interesting.

01:24:04.000 Via Greenback.

01:24:04.000 Yeah, a lot of people were mad at Spike for that.

01:24:07.000 Spike Lee.

01:24:08.000 Yeah.

01:24:09.000 And when he tripped that referee.

01:24:10.000 I actually don't know if he did.

01:24:11.000 He tripped the referee?

01:24:12.000 I don't know.

01:24:12.000 I was in the Jay-Z song.

01:24:13.000 Remember that one?

01:24:14.000 What are you talking about?

01:24:15.000 I never even saw it.

01:24:16.000 Spike Lee tripped a referee?

01:24:17.000 Yeah, he's known at being in the NBA, like a lot of Knicks games.

01:24:20.000 Yeah?

01:24:21.000 He tripped a referee?

01:24:22.000 Supposedly.

01:24:22.000 Well, that's what Jay-Z said.

01:24:23.000 He said, I'm spiked out.

01:24:25.000 I could trip a referee.

01:24:26.000 And I'm like, oh, Spike Lee must have tripped a referee one time.

01:24:29.000 Because he is always courtside at the Knicks.

01:24:31.000 Is there video of this?

01:24:35.000 I think he's saying it because he sits courtside.

01:24:37.000 I don't think it actually happened.

01:24:38.000 Oh, one of those things.

01:24:39.000 One of those things.

01:24:40.000 I could trip a referee.

01:24:42.000 Yeah, isn't that weird?

01:24:44.000 Basketball, you can get right up to the action.

01:24:47.000 Oh, so close.

01:24:47.000 You could literally get...

01:24:48.000 You could trip a referee.

01:24:49.000 Yeah.

01:24:50.000 Whereas football, you're pretty far back.

01:24:54.000 20 feet, 50 feet.

01:24:55.000 I mean, I've talked about this so many times people get angry at me, but what would you think about the idea of fighting in a big open area without a cage?

01:25:05.000 Like a big open area, like a basketball arena, like a basketball court, like that size.

01:25:12.000 If you had like wrestling hats where you have boundary lines.

01:25:17.000 Could you actually go out of those boundary lines and they'll stop the action?

01:25:21.000 Well, they'd have to bring you back in.

01:25:22.000 There'd have to be some reason.

01:25:23.000 So it would be like the Coliseum.

01:25:25.000 Exactly.

01:25:26.000 Because it would be so big that there almost are no barriers.

01:25:28.000 Well, yeah, because I think that there's something about a cage that presents an artificial boundary, and that artificial boundary can be used both to contain someone and to get out, to get up.

01:25:40.000 Like, you could obviously wall walk and get up out.

01:25:43.000 I just think...

01:25:44.000 It makes takedowns much more difficult when there's not a cage, because you're not going to press someone against a cage and just scoop their legs out from under them.

01:25:50.000 You have to get a legitimate takedown, like an open area takedown.

01:25:54.000 And it makes getting up much more difficult.

01:25:56.000 When someone does take you down, you can't just scoot your back up to the wall and get back up.

01:26:03.000 You're going to have to figure out a way to actually get up.

01:26:06.000 Well, that was one of the things, too.

01:26:07.000 Going back to being a wrestler, wrestlers coming in should not just expect that they're going to be able to take guys down and not get taken down.

01:26:15.000 I used to get taken down all the time off the cage, and I'm like, man, I'm a Division I wrestler.

01:26:18.000 Why am I getting taken down?

01:26:19.000 But it is completely different.

01:26:21.000 I mean, obviously, I know a lot about maneuvering the body and scrambling out and all that kind of stuff, but adding the cage wall is a lot different, you know?

01:26:31.000 Yeah.

01:26:32.000 When you first started training, did you immediately start training in a cage?

01:26:38.000 I think at Xtreme Couture, yeah, there was a cage.

01:26:41.000 So we would spar in a cage.

01:26:43.000 But now I don't.

01:26:44.000 I don't really spar in a cage anymore.

01:26:45.000 You don't?

01:26:46.000 Not really.

01:26:47.000 How come?

01:26:47.000 I don't know.

01:26:48.000 I mean, down in Florida, we don't have one, and we just spar in the open.

01:26:51.000 There's cage walls.

01:26:53.000 There's cage walls that, like if you're in training camp, if you've got a fight coming up soon, you'll spar in this certain area where they might put some tie pads on the floor, like don't go past this, and then there's your other barrier type of deal.

01:27:06.000 My gym, we don't have a cage.

01:27:07.000 We just have a cage wall and then a padded wall, too. 0.99

01:27:10.000 So the cage wall, just to work on wall walks and things like that, you get chewed up on those fucking things too. 0.97

01:27:16.000 That's why I like to use the padded wall. 0.97

01:27:19.000 I mean, the only difference is there's a little bit of a give to the cage wall.

01:27:24.000 There's not on the padded wall.

01:27:25.000 But man, yeah, if you're not wearing gloves, if you're an elbow, I mean, I've busted a bursa sack in my elbow before and it just takes a week to heal.

01:27:33.000 Or you look at your back in the mirror and it just looks like a bunch of hickeys all over your back. 0.89

01:27:37.000 Your head can get ripped apart.

01:27:39.000 Your ears. 0.78

01:27:40.000 People get cut I've actually gotten cut open, nicked just a little bitty one in a fight. 0.67

01:27:47.000 By just hitting the cage.

01:27:49.000 Because it's metal.

01:27:51.000 Yeah, it's one of those things that I think is a legacy idea.

01:27:55.000 It's hard to see, too, when you're in the audience and you're looking at it.

01:27:59.000 And those pillars get in the way.

01:28:01.000 It'd be cool if there was just a single cage that didn't have to be bolted together.

01:28:07.000 Therefore, there was no...

01:28:09.000 No posts.

01:28:10.000 But then again...

01:28:11.000 Right.

01:28:12.000 You'd have to have a top post, right?

01:28:13.000 You'd have to have a top post and a bottom post and then the...

01:28:16.000 The cage would have to be so rigid that it held everything together. 0.99

01:28:19.000 Yeah, how the fuck would you do that? 0.98

01:28:21.000 It would be almost impossible because it's... 0.97

01:28:23.000 Or maybe it's two pieces.

01:28:24.000 Maybe you lower them in.

01:28:24.000 Or maybe it's two pieces.

01:28:26.000 Exactly.

01:28:27.000 The guys just stand there and then they just get locked in and then big...

01:28:31.000 Yeah, there's no doors.

01:28:33.000 Spartans just lock this thing down.

01:28:35.000 Yeah, there's like elevators.

01:28:37.000 That was like the big UFC, you know, back in the day.

01:28:39.000 What was the guy, Art Davey?

01:28:41.000 Yeah.

01:28:41.000 When they started talking about all the ideas where they were talking about putting a moat around the cage and sharks and alligators and like, we're really going to do this thing big.

01:28:49.000 Everyone's going to love it.

01:28:51.000 Well, Art Davey's the same guy that brought us ex-arm wrestling or whatever the fuck it was.

01:28:55.000 Oh, yeah? 0.59

01:28:56.000 You know what it is? 0.98

01:28:57.000 They tied your arms together and you beat the shit out of each other. 0.98

01:29:00.000 Really? 0.98

01:29:01.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:29:01.000 Like the Michael Jackson bad video?

01:29:03.000 No, they had an MMA arm wrestling event.

01:29:06.000 Oh, it was actually MMA? Yeah, where you literally tied the guy's arm together.

01:29:10.000 So you were in an arm wrestling situation, and they taped your arms together, and then you were punching each other and kicking each other, and guys were throwing arm bars.

01:29:18.000 Yeah, with the arm wrestling podium in front of you.

01:29:20.000 Here it is, X-Arm.

01:29:22.000 I have no idea how you find these things so quickly.

01:29:24.000 Because we made fun of this like a week ago. 1.00

01:29:26.000 It was so fucking stupid. 1.00

01:29:28.000 Look, they taped their arms together. 1.00

01:29:30.000 And these guys, first of all, don't ever throw that kick again.

01:29:33.000 But look at this.

01:29:35.000 This guy's got an arm bar.

01:29:36.000 Oh my goodness. 0.98

01:29:37.000 I mean, which is crazy because your arm can get fucking snapped. 0.97

01:29:40.000 Yeah. 0.92

01:29:41.000 I mean, you have a table that you're doing an arm bar over.

01:29:43.000 You don't even have time to tap.

01:29:45.000 And they can't separate you once you do tap.

01:29:47.000 Look at this.

01:29:47.000 Head kick.

01:29:48.000 Oh no.

01:29:49.000 Look at how crazy that is.

01:29:50.000 They're stopping the fight.

01:29:51.000 But even if they stop the fight...

01:29:52.000 Pin his arm.

01:29:53.000 Pin his arm. 0.97

01:29:54.000 So you can win by getting an arm or knock him out. 1.00

01:29:57.000 It's so stupid. 1.00

01:29:59.000 This is one of the dumbest ideas that humans have ever come up with. 1.00

01:30:02.000 Oh, man. 1.00

01:30:03.000 Look at this.

01:30:03.000 But it's entertaining.

01:30:04.000 I would watch it.

01:30:05.000 I guess.

01:30:06.000 I would watch it.

01:30:07.000 It's a horrible idea. 1.00

01:30:09.000 I'm watching it right now, so I'm talking shit. 1.00

01:30:10.000 I would watch it. 0.99

01:30:12.000 If that was on tonight, I'm watching it, 100%.

01:30:14.000 But the arms are taped together, which is just crazy.

01:30:17.000 I love how the ref comes out and does the tape job, too, while everyone's watching.

01:30:23.000 Oh, that guy's out.

01:30:24.000 Out cold, hanging off the edge.

01:30:27.000 And then you're connected to him.

01:30:28.000 You should just run and start dragging him around.

01:30:30.000 Well, it's so dangerous, too. 1.00

01:30:32.000 It's such a dumb, dumb idea. 1.00

01:30:36.000 But see it! 1.00

01:30:37.000 What was that like?

01:30:38.000 Was that online?

01:30:39.000 Was that pay-per-view?

01:30:40.000 What was that?

01:30:40.000 How was that?

01:30:41.000 I don't know.

01:30:42.000 It's one of those things that just...

01:30:44.000 It just existed for a while.

01:30:46.000 It happened for a second.

01:30:48.000 Yeah, it happened for a little bit.

01:30:48.000 And the dudes got knocked out and they're like, okay.

01:30:50.000 Was there a commission?

01:30:51.000 Do you have to have a commission for this? 1.00

01:30:52.000 Nah, they probably did that on some fucking island somewhere. 0.99

01:30:56.000 Exactly, right? 1.00

01:30:56.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:30:57.000 I guess that was good.

01:30:59.000 International waters on a boat or something like that.

01:31:00.000 I have no idea how they got away with that thing. 1.00

01:31:03.000 It's just so stupid. 1.00

01:31:04.000 That was Art Davey, huh? 1.00

01:31:05.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:31:06.000 I believe so.

01:31:07.000 Didn't he just get inducted to the Hall of Fame?

01:31:08.000 Yes, I did.

01:31:09.000 Yes, he did, rather.

01:31:11.000 Wasn't there...

01:31:11.000 Frank Shamrock had a good idea where they were doing one in like...

01:31:16.000 It was like a pit.

01:31:18.000 Okay.

01:31:19.000 Sort of a thing.

01:31:20.000 Which would be cool because you couldn't really climb out.

01:31:22.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:31:23.000 And I know they have something similar to that now with this karate thing that Boss Root is involved with.

01:31:29.000 I think I saw that.

01:31:29.000 Is that in Florida?

01:31:30.000 Yes.

01:31:30.000 Yes, in Miami.

01:31:31.000 Because Luke Rockhold has gone to a couple of live events, I think.

01:31:34.000 Yeah, they're doing that now where they take real high-level karate guys and they wear MMA gloves and I think they're allowed...

01:31:41.000 And there's padded walls type of deal.

01:31:44.000 Yeah.

01:31:44.000 Well, it's like a slanted area where you know you hit the barrier.

01:31:49.000 It's weird.

01:31:50.000 You can punch a little bit on the ground.

01:31:52.000 It's very strange.

01:31:53.000 Boss had it in.

01:31:54.000 You're allowed to punch on the ground for five seconds.

01:31:56.000 You can take a guy down and you can punch him on the ground for five seconds and then stop.

01:32:00.000 Yeah, which is like, oh, okay. 0.98

01:32:01.000 It's like, man, let him beat his face in.

01:32:02.000 Come on, man.

01:32:03.000 Well, it's like this idea needs a little bit of work.

01:32:06.000 So you think it's going to make it?

01:32:08.000 The boss rooting thing?

01:32:09.000 I mean, hopefully.

01:32:10.000 Look, I think the more stuff we can have, the better.

01:32:13.000 But I just think they need to iron out the rules.

01:32:15.000 Like, I love glory.

01:32:16.000 I love kickboxing.

01:32:17.000 I loved Lion Fight when it was on, but I think now it's only online or something like that.

01:32:22.000 It's hard to find good, high-level Muay Thai, good, high-level striking that's not just boxing.

01:32:29.000 It's really hard to find.

01:32:30.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:32:31.000 That's why you've seen all these organizations come and go or these kind of crazy ideas.

01:32:36.000 Nothing is sticking in a lot of instances.

01:32:39.000 That's why it's cool to see the growth of MMA. It's a cool time to be a part of this generation of MMA as MMA grows.

01:32:48.000 Like you talked about, Asking about myself, I mean, you're seeing all kinds of guys having success with karate style and kind of on your toes bouncing kickboxing style, point kickboxing style.

01:33:01.000 And you're seeing a lot of people come in because it's cool, it's flashy, the fans love it, the promoters love it.

01:33:07.000 Michael Page.

01:33:07.000 Michael Page, exactly.

01:33:08.000 I mean, he's a perfect example of a guy who was a real high-level point karate fighter who's now...

01:33:14.000 A real tough puzzle to solve in MMA. Yeah.

01:33:18.000 Who is he fighting next?

01:33:19.000 He's fighting 170, right?

01:33:21.000 He's fighting 170. I don't think he has a Bellator...

01:33:23.000 I don't think he has an MMA fight schedule.

01:33:25.000 I know he had a fight in October, but that was...

01:33:27.000 He had a boxing match.

01:33:28.000 Yeah.

01:33:28.000 That was October.

01:33:29.000 And he won by KO. Months ago, yeah.

01:33:30.000 It was a long time ago.

01:33:32.000 May. 0.98

01:33:32.000 And I know they were trying to set up a fight with him and Paul Daly, which would be fucking chaos. 0.98

01:33:38.000 Yeah. 0.95

01:33:38.000 But Paul Daly was just saying something. 0.95

01:33:40.000 I read an article.

01:33:41.000 I just read the headline. 0.96

01:33:42.000 It said, Bellator thinks I'm a fool and I ain't one. 0.96

01:33:45.000 So I don't know. 0.95

01:33:46.000 Paul Daly was not very happy for a second.

01:33:48.000 That's why I was very interested or I was surprised to see him.

01:33:51.000 He just signed to fight.

01:33:54.000 Who is he fighting?

01:33:56.000 I don't know because I read this headline.

01:33:58.000 He's fighting someone in London.

01:33:59.000 I believe it was yesterday.

01:34:01.000 Find out who it says Paul Daly.

01:34:03.000 John Fitch.

01:34:03.000 Oh, John Fitch.

01:34:04.000 That's right.

01:34:06.000 John Fitch is coming back.

01:34:08.000 That's a terrible fight for him, though.

01:34:09.000 John Fitch is all wrestler.

01:34:10.000 Have they fought yet?

01:34:11.000 Ready to fight John Fitch?

01:34:12.000 I don't think they did.

01:34:13.000 They never fought in Strikeforce days?

01:34:14.000 No, I don't believe they did.

01:34:16.000 Coming off impressive second-round knockout of fellow UFC veteran Lorenz Larkin.

01:34:20.000 So he's been out for a while, too, because that fight with Lorenz, I want to say, was six months ago plus, right?

01:34:27.000 That was on my card in September.

01:34:30.000 September?

01:34:31.000 Yeah, September.

01:34:34.000 But yeah, I know he came out.

01:34:36.000 He wasn't very happy about some stuff.

01:34:37.000 So that was eight months since his last fight.

01:34:40.000 So is that what he's upset about, that he hasn't gotten a fight in a long time?

01:34:43.000 I mean, I think it's like you said. 0.95

01:34:44.000 Bellator thinks I'm a fool, blah, blah, blah. 0.98

01:34:46.000 He basically said he was walking. 0.99

01:34:48.000 There you go. 1.00

01:34:48.000 Yeah, Bellator's playing me for an idiot, and I ain't an idiot. 1.00

01:34:52.000 You ain't an idiot? 1.00

01:34:53.000 I ain't an idiot. 1.00

01:34:55.000 When you say that with his British accent, it's even better. 1.00

01:34:59.000 Bellator.

01:35:00.000 Bellator.

01:35:00.000 Yeah, but that's a...

01:35:02.000 That's interesting.

01:35:03.000 I ain't happy with what you guys are doing.

01:35:04.000 Finally a fight that makes sense.

01:35:06.000 Hold on, scroll back up.

01:35:07.000 What is he saying?

01:35:09.000 Bellator wanted him to fight John Fitch at Bellator 199 this Saturday.

01:35:13.000 One thing went through his mind.

01:35:14.000 I thought, finally a fight that makes sense.

01:35:16.000 Daly said, in case you couldn't tell.

01:35:19.000 I've had great times at Bellator.

01:35:20.000 Okay, so just...

01:35:23.000 They're just taking a quote out of context and making it the title, which is what they always do, right?

01:35:28.000 They're playing me for nitty-nitty-nitty. 1.00

01:35:30.000 Just be done with all the bullshit. 1.00

01:35:31.000 Let me fight. 1.00

01:35:32.000 I love how they bull expletive. 1.00

01:35:34.000 Just write bullshit, you fucking pussies. 1.00

01:35:37.000 Let me fight. 1.00

01:35:38.000 Let me go.

01:35:39.000 Or you treat me like you want me to be here.

01:35:42.000 Oh, okay.

01:35:42.000 Yeah.

01:35:43.000 Well, that's a good fight, though.

01:35:44.000 The John Fitch fight's a good fight because striking-wise, obviously, he has a giant advantage.

01:35:49.000 But Fitch has been around a long time. 1.00

01:35:51.000 He knows his shit, and he's a fucking brutal wrestler. 0.99

01:35:54.000 And this is Fitch's first fight in Bellator. 1.00

01:35:56.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:35:57.000 Just came over from Pro Fight League?

01:35:59.000 Mm-hmm, yeah.

01:36:00.000 Or is that where it was last?

01:36:01.000 Well, were they calling it World Series of Fighting then?

01:36:04.000 Oh, it was probably World Series back then, yeah.

01:36:06.000 And Fitch fought Paul Jarez, and that was when Paul Jarez got disqualified, right?

01:36:11.000 Yeah.

01:36:12.000 It was a heel hook that he held onto?

01:36:14.000 Yeah.

01:36:14.000 That was bad for a couple fights in a row.

01:36:17.000 Paul Harris will do that, man.

01:36:19.000 Paul Harris?

01:36:20.000 Yeah.

01:36:20.000 I love when people call him Paul Harris.

01:36:22.000 I'm like, who's Paul Harris?

01:36:24.000 I didn't know he was good.

01:36:26.000 I'm like, okay. 1.00

01:36:27.000 Yeah, he holds on to shit. 1.00

01:36:28.000 Yeah, bad. 1.00

01:36:29.000 But the ref's like ripping him off.

01:36:31.000 Yeah.

01:36:32.000 Which is actually awesome.

01:36:33.000 It's kind of crazy.

01:36:34.000 It's terrible if it's your knee.

01:36:36.000 Yeah, it's terrible if it's your knee, but it's like awesome for fans, but then the fans are like, half of them were ticked off, half of them were pumped.

01:36:42.000 Well, you're seeing the leg locks now.

01:36:44.000 You know, you're really seeing them in MMA. You're seeing them.

01:36:47.000 A shitload of them in jiu-jitsu.

01:36:49.000 Professional submission matches.

01:36:50.000 You're seeing the leg lock game because of the Donaher death squad.

01:36:54.000 A lot of those guys just seeing it dominate competition.

01:36:57.000 I almost got my leg ripped off.

01:37:00.000 A lot of things would be a lot different if I would have tapped in that fight.

01:37:04.000 That first fight against Marcian Held.

01:37:06.000 First round of another tournament.

01:37:08.000 Phenomenal jiu-jitsu guy.

01:37:09.000 He had it so deep, man.

01:37:11.000 I sprained my hamstring a little bit, like pulled it, popped it, and then I had to fight three or four weeks later again.

01:37:17.000 Wow.

01:37:18.000 But, man, almost ripped my knee in half.

01:37:21.000 Do you train a lot of leg lock submissions?

01:37:24.000 Do you train defense?

01:37:25.000 Not a lot.

01:37:26.000 How do you know what to do in a situation like that?

01:37:28.000 I mean, I think there's a couple...

01:37:32.000 Basics, you know, if you get in a heel hook, roll with it, or if you get caught in a knee bar, pop the legs open, pop the knee open.

01:37:39.000 Right.

01:37:39.000 But do you work with, like, high-level leg lock guys?

01:37:43.000 No.

01:37:43.000 To really understand the whole chain of events that happens?

01:37:46.000 No.

01:37:46.000 I mean, it's hard to find good leg lock guys.

01:37:48.000 I mean, it's almost like throwing elbows and knees in practice.

01:37:52.000 Guys don't throw them or practice them as much because it's hard to practice them without putting people in really bad danger.

01:37:58.000 You know, you accidentally hit someone with an elbow, Because you were simulating it, you catch an eyebrow and it's over.

01:38:04.000 I got 12 stitches.

01:38:05.000 Same thing with leg locks.

01:38:06.000 I mean, people will get it.

01:38:08.000 I actually got caught in a leg lock by Mario Sperry this last training camp, now that I think about it.

01:38:12.000 Mario Sperry is still rolling.

01:38:14.000 Oh, he's still rolling, man.

01:38:15.000 He's like, you, Chela, come here.

01:38:17.000 How old is he now?

01:38:19.000 Mario's got to be 50. Yeah, he's the man, man.

01:38:21.000 He's awesome.

01:38:21.000 Really, really nice guy.

01:38:22.000 Real veteran, man, and a real pioneer of jujitsu and MMA. Yeah, it was a wrestling day.

01:38:28.000 It was a wrestling day, and we went to the ground, and we just kept going.

01:38:30.000 I had wrestling shoes on, and he caught me in it.

01:38:32.000 I was like, whoop!

01:38:33.000 Give the old tap real quick because I'm like, man, you get wrestling with wrestling shoes on, it's no joke.

01:38:39.000 You ain't getting out of nothing.

01:38:39.000 No.

01:38:40.000 So it's like, yep, got me.

01:38:41.000 Thanks, coach.

01:38:42.000 Let's go again.

01:38:43.000 Yeah, the whole leg lock game has evolved.

01:38:47.000 It's scary, man.

01:38:48.000 Especially like heel, not a heel hook, but when they take the ankle, just bend it. 0.95

01:38:56.000 Right, what Dylan Dennis did this weekend.

01:38:58.000 So that's what happened to me.

01:38:59.000 Toe hold. 1.00

01:39:00.000 There you go.

01:39:00.000 I got caught in a knee bar, got out of the knee bar, and then he switched to the toe hold, felt my ankle pop, pop, pop, and then just...

01:39:05.000 What inspired you to talk a bunch of shit about Dylan Dennis after his performance? 0.96

01:39:11.000 I don't know. 0.98

01:39:12.000 I don't think he looked very good.

01:39:13.000 You don't think his jiu-jitsu looked good?

01:39:15.000 Oh, he was all right.

01:39:16.000 I mean, he was...

01:39:17.000 You know, he went there in a nice little transition, grabbed the leg.

01:39:20.000 But, I mean, he looked like a fish out of water on the feet, of which, of course, he should, I guess.

01:39:24.000 First MMA fight.

01:39:25.000 But I think it's, I mean, do I respect what, you know, the win?

01:39:28.000 Do I respect what he's done in him and maybe BJJ? That's cool, but it's not mixed martial arts.

01:39:33.000 And it's just, it's funny how much he's getting called out for being literally just a, you know...

01:39:38.000 I want to be Connor with all the same, saying the exact same exact stuff.

01:39:42.000 Well, he realizes how he realizes good it gets you paid.

01:39:45.000 Exactly.

01:39:46.000 You know, he's doing a good job with it.

01:39:47.000 But he also said he's he's the highest paid fighter in Bellator.

01:39:50.000 I mean, there's all kinds of like silly stuff, you know, it's just like, dude.

01:39:54.000 Is that what he said? 0.62

01:39:55.000 Oh yeah.

01:39:55.000 So he's Chael Sonnen in a little bit.

01:39:57.000 Oh yeah, he's a dork, man. 1.00

01:39:58.000 Just huge dork. 1.00

01:39:59.000 So it's just like one of those things where it's like... 0.93

01:40:01.000 But when a guy's making his debut and you are a world champion or a former world champion at this point, what inspires you to call a guy like that out?

01:40:10.000 Just because, I mean...

01:40:12.000 Doesn't it help him?

01:40:13.000 Yeah, I guess it does.

01:40:14.000 But it also, I mean, I also woke up to 150 mentions on Twitter, so it's like, well, at least people are talking.

01:40:19.000 You know, at least people are talking.

01:40:21.000 I mean, that's the other thing, too, is always navigating the narrative and talking about...

01:40:26.000 Getting people to talk.

01:40:28.000 Getting people to talk about, I mean, over the last couple months, the amount of times, as soon as Khabib fought, the amount of people that were just talking like, hey, you're the only guy that can match Khabib's wrestling.

01:40:37.000 You're the only guy that can nullify his wrestling.

01:40:39.000 I mean, to get yourself in the conversation, that's what it all is.

01:40:42.000 It's all...

01:40:43.000 Well, Styles definitely make fights, and that was what became very interesting after the Al Iaquinta fight, where people were looking at, okay, what about high-level wrestlers who have more refined striking?

01:40:55.000 And how do they line up?

01:40:56.000 And Kevin Lee was a big one that people kept talking about, but you were a big one that people kept talking about, too.

01:41:01.000 Because you were saying that you think you could beat him.

01:41:04.000 100%.

01:41:04.000 And him having that fight with Iaquinta, who...

01:41:08.000 He was a prohibited favorite over, but it went the full five rounds.

01:41:12.000 And, you know, Iaquinta, although never won a round, showed some chinks in the armor. 1.00

01:41:17.000 So chinks in the armor showed what happens when Khabib can't take you down. 1.00

01:41:21.000 I mean, it's tough whenever the one thing that you've always been used to dominating with isn't working, and then you're stuck throwing punches and you're in, you know...

01:41:34.000 He's a little bit behind in the striking aspect.

01:41:36.000 Dude, I've got a ton of respect for the guy.

01:41:38.000 He's a mauler.

01:41:39.000 I mean, at certain times he looks unbeatable.

01:41:42.000 He has looked unbeatable where I've looked at it and other people have looked at it and people that have fought him that I've talked to.

01:41:48.000 Like the Barboza fight. 0.98

01:41:49.000 He just fucking mauled Barboza. 0.99

01:41:52.000 And it's just a battle of wills, man. 1.00

01:41:54.000 You're inside of a cage.

01:41:55.000 And it's just like we talked about.

01:41:56.000 I knew I could outpace people.

01:41:58.000 I knew I could out-cardio them.

01:42:00.000 I could out-tough them.

01:42:02.000 Certain people get to that breaking point and they break and they concede and they go into their shell and they say, I did a good job, but this one's on him. 0.99

01:42:09.000 Well, guys who don't have that deep, deep wrestling background and they face a guy who does, there's moments in the fight where you see that, where you saw that thousand-yard stare in Barboza's eyes where he's like, fuck. 0.99

01:42:23.000 I can't keep doing this. 0.90

01:42:24.000 He goes into defensive survival mode.

01:42:27.000 And when a guy does have a deep background in wrestling and also can strike, that's what makes it interesting.

01:42:35.000 And this is why MMA is such a complex sport because there's so many variables.

01:42:40.000 There's so many techniques you can use.

01:42:42.000 There's so many situations where you might have an advantage or your opponent might have an advantage.

01:42:46.000 And it's just...

01:42:48.000 We live for these matchups, these stylistic matchups.

01:42:52.000 So when something like that happens and a guy like Khabib has a fight where all these questions get presented, that's where a guy like Michael Chandler comes into the mix.

01:43:02.000 Yeah, well, and I love, like, after that fight, too, because I said something.

01:43:06.000 I posted a video.

01:43:07.000 Do you see the video of me scrambling with Kamaru?

01:43:09.000 Yes, yes. 0.76

01:43:10.000 He's crazy. 1.00

01:43:11.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:43:11.000 That was awesome.

01:43:12.000 And I said, if all he has is wrestling, how do you beat a man who can't be taken down?

01:43:16.000 I got so many messages from Russian guys that just said, Khabib time, Khabib time.

01:43:21.000 Of course!

01:43:25.000 It's one of those things, man.

01:43:27.000 That fight with Eddie, that fight with Khabib, it's exciting.

01:43:31.000 Kamaru Usman has got to be going fucking crazy right now seeing Colby Covington getting a shot at the interim title. 1.00

01:43:37.000 He's like, you motherfuckers! 1.00

01:43:39.000 Nobody wants to fight that dude. 1.00

01:43:42.000 No, I wouldn't.

01:43:43.000 I mean, that dude is...

01:43:44.000 I mean, he's a specimen.

01:43:46.000 He's got wrestling.

01:43:47.000 He's got striking.

01:43:49.000 I mean, you watch him spar or you watch him hit mitts or you watch his composure and his confidence while he's sparring and doing all that kind of stuff.

01:43:55.000 You'd think he's been striking since he was 11 years old.

01:43:58.000 He just started after college.

01:44:01.000 Well, he had a tough fight with...

01:44:05.000 Meek Mill?

01:44:06.000 Yeah.

01:44:06.000 Emile Meek or whatever?

01:44:07.000 Emile Meek.

01:44:08.000 But I think that Emile Meek is extremely underrated.

01:44:13.000 Extremely underrated. 0.99

01:44:13.000 I mean, he's a fucking tough guy. 0.99

01:44:15.000 Very physically strong. 1.00

01:44:17.000 Very, very strong.

01:44:18.000 I was Emile Meek a couple times.

01:44:20.000 I was like trying to mimic him.

01:44:23.000 Oh, were you in training camp?

01:44:24.000 Yeah, we were there at the same time.

01:44:25.000 And he's done that.

01:44:26.000 Him and I train a ton together.

01:44:27.000 And it works out well for me because he's a bigger guy.

01:44:29.000 I like to go with a little bit bigger guys so I can just continue to get stronger and manipulate bodies that are bigger than mine, you know? 0.81

01:44:35.000 Yeah, and a lot of people were criticizing him for not being able to finish Meek, but I'm like, you're crazy. 1.00

01:44:39.000 That guy is a fucking animal. 0.98

01:44:41.000 It's nuts the amount of people, you know, armchair quarterbacks that are literally out there saying, you should have finished this guy. 1.00

01:44:48.000 We are all professional fighters training day in and day out.

01:44:52.000 It's not easy to finish a guy sometimes. 0.99

01:44:54.000 Well, that's why I was saying you've got to stay the fuck away from your... 0.99

01:44:57.000 Twitter mentions. 0.99

01:44:58.000 Yeah.

01:44:59.000 It's like, man, it just blows me.

01:45:01.000 Oh my goodness.

01:45:01.000 Especially for a guy like you, if you do have something like an ankle injury, like that one fight, and then you've got to stay offline for a few weeks.

01:45:08.000 For sure.

01:45:09.000 I mean, I still get it to this day.

01:45:11.000 Are you training?

01:45:11.000 Are you working on your rubber ankles?

01:45:13.000 Oh, these motherfuckers, they know where your soft spot is. 1.00

01:45:17.000 They start poking you. 1.00

01:45:17.000 That's good. 1.00

01:45:18.000 I looked out at my ankle and said, man, that is a well-enabled ankle. 0.99

01:45:20.000 I'm ready to kick somebody in the head with it.

01:45:21.000 So you didn't suffer any ill effects of it once the nerves came back? 0.99

01:45:26.000 No, once they came back.

01:45:27.000 I mean, I've done a lot of rehab.

01:45:29.000 And I think my legs or my feet in general, it's something that I've continued to work on.

01:45:35.000 I mean, you've got to look at each...

01:45:37.000 Each individual joint from hands to wrists to elbows to knees to ankles.

01:45:41.000 I mean, in all of my strength and conditioning work, a lot of it is very, very hard, very, very tough, very, very violent.

01:45:47.000 And then some of my stuff is stability stuff, core stability stuff, hip flexibility, hip strengthening stuff, because that's where all your power and all that kind of stuff comes from.

01:45:56.000 Do you do any yoga at all?

01:45:57.000 I do yoga.

01:45:58.000 I've done hot yoga in the past, and we just opened up.

01:46:01.000 My gym in Nashville has a 900-square-foot yoga studio that actually opened up this morning at 6 a.m., Oh, there you go.

01:46:07.000 What a great way to launch it.

01:46:09.000 Yeah, so I'm going to show up and just show up and work on that core stability and flexibility.

01:46:13.000 Is that a hot yoga place or regular yoga?

01:46:16.000 Just regular yoga.

01:46:17.000 What temperature do you keep the room?

01:46:18.000 It'll be right around that 80-ish.

01:46:20.000 That's fine, right?

01:46:22.000 Yeah.

01:46:22.000 Some people don't like that hot stuff.

01:46:23.000 Yeah, we had training the other day and we had about 12 people in there.

01:46:27.000 We were shooting some content and had some training and we had to bring towels back there because people were coming out and they're like, hey, you got any towels?

01:46:32.000 Because people were sweating their butt off.

01:46:33.000 And I think we're going to get some cool infrared panels to hang on the ceiling that can kind of add a little bit of heat to where it's not hot yoga, but it's definitely warm enough when you're going through your flows.

01:46:44.000 You're definitely opening up the muscles and you're getting that sweat out.

01:46:47.000 Yeah.

01:46:49.000 How often do you work on your flexibility?

01:46:51.000 Do you work on stretching?

01:46:54.000 I'm on my roller every day.

01:46:56.000 I believe in roller, lacrosse ball.

01:46:59.000 I just found this really cool.

01:47:00.000 Lacrosse balls are awesome.

01:47:01.000 Lacrosse ball, yeah.

01:47:02.000 Do we have one in here, Jamie?

01:47:04.000 No, those mobility wads from Rogue.

01:47:07.000 Oh, no.

01:47:08.000 I need to get one of those.

01:47:09.000 What are they called?

01:47:10.000 It's called a wad, I think.

01:47:11.000 The blue ones?

01:47:13.000 What does he call it?

01:47:14.000 Star?

01:47:14.000 Something star.

01:47:16.000 What the fuck does he call it? 0.99

01:47:18.000 I thought it was a wad. 0.99

01:47:19.000 The blue ones?

01:47:20.000 Yeah.

01:47:20.000 Well, wad is a workout of the day.

01:47:22.000 Supernova.

01:47:23.000 Supernova.

01:47:24.000 Yeah, WOD Supernova.

01:47:25.000 That's what he calls it.

01:47:25.000 Is it flat at the bottom?

01:47:27.000 No.

01:47:28.000 We got one out there.

01:47:29.000 I'll show it to you after the thing.

01:47:30.000 But it's about a little bit bigger than a softball.

01:47:33.000 But it's got all these little knobs on it. 1.00

01:47:35.000 It's hard as fuck. 0.99

01:47:36.000 There it is right there. 1.00

01:47:37.000 I love that goddamn thing. 0.99

01:47:39.000 That's the Supernova 2.0. 0.99

01:47:40.000 That seems like the smaller one, right?

01:47:42.000 He has two of them.

01:47:44.000 He has Kelly Starr.

01:47:46.000 Yeah, there you go.

01:47:47.000 So you have a small one and a larger one.

01:47:49.000 For whatever reason, I think I prefer the larger one.

01:47:53.000 My soft tissue guy down in Florida has one of those. 1.00

01:47:55.000 Those things are the shit, man. 1.00

01:47:57.000 I just got this thing called a so-rite. 1.00

01:47:59.000 Look up the so-rite. 0.97

01:48:00.000 P-S-O-R-I-T-E. You know what the so-as is? 1.00

01:48:05.000 Yes.

01:48:05.000 Here.

01:48:06.000 I mean, that's always been one of my big things.

01:48:08.000 You literally lay on that thing, and if you know what it feels like to get your so-as worked on, you just kind of wobble and wiggle until it hits it, and then you can lift your legs.

01:48:19.000 This guy does all kinds of videos.

01:48:21.000 Right.

01:48:22.000 He's hitting the psoas, he hits the glutes, he hits the quads, he hits literally everything, and he's got the psoas mini.

01:48:28.000 So I've been playing on that the last couple months.

01:48:31.000 David Goggins was saying that the tightness in his psoas muscles was like crippling his running.

01:48:37.000 It's literally the...

01:48:40.000 Like, you ever see people with the wrestler back where their butt's out and it takes you a second to stand up?

01:48:45.000 That's all psoas, pulling everything down, being bent over, or throwing kicks. 1.00

01:48:50.000 I mean, for whatever reason, I've had horrible, horrible problems with my psoas.

01:48:54.000 And every single kind of chink in my armor has gone back to the psoas muscles. 0.99

01:48:59.000 The psoas, which is connected to the spine, down to the iliac crest, I believe.

01:49:04.000 And then there's something called the iliopsoas, where the iliacus and the psoas are connected.

01:49:07.000 Play that, Jamie?

01:49:09.000 This is a pec thing that he does with it too.

01:49:11.000 So it's not just the psoas muscle.

01:49:13.000 He uses it to loosen up your pecs.

01:49:16.000 Man, it's incredible how much that relieves. 0.97

01:49:19.000 Sometimes I get some hip tightness and I'll get that Supernova out, and I'll roll on that fucker all over my hips and my IT bands. 1.00

01:49:29.000 Or else it just compounds every single day and gets worse and worse and worse. 0.93

01:49:32.000 And also, too, just lengthening everything.

01:49:35.000 Your diaphragm, all of that just continues to get crunched and crunched and crunched and you can't breathe.

01:49:40.000 Oh, look at him.

01:49:41.000 He's having a good time over there.

01:49:42.000 Put it up against the wall.

01:49:43.000 He's got a... 0.88

01:49:45.000 I mean, he'll hit his whole body with it.

01:49:46.000 He actually has the exact same thing in a mini.

01:49:48.000 It's literally only three inches long.

01:49:50.000 This is feels underscore pso underscore good lol.

01:49:57.000 That's on Instagram.

01:49:58.000 Yeah.

01:49:59.000 So what is your diet like?

01:50:01.000 Diet, man, embrace the monotony.

01:50:04.000 That's what mine is, man.

01:50:05.000 Chicken and broccoli.

01:50:06.000 I got mega fit meals.

01:50:08.000 And that's what I make my own meals throughout all training camp.

01:50:12.000 When it's chicken and broccoli, or it's beef and broccoli, or it's chicken.

01:50:16.000 Always broccoli.

01:50:17.000 I love broccoli.

01:50:18.000 I mean, I don't love broccoli, actually.

01:50:20.000 I do not love broccoli, but I love the fact that a couple weeks after I look in the mirror, I say, dang, man, I'm getting down.

01:50:25.000 Fans are starting to pop out.

01:50:27.000 And that's one of the biggest problems with people's fitness journeys.

01:50:31.000 They focus on the weight on the scale, or they focus.

01:50:33.000 They're not seeing the results that they want to see.

01:50:35.000 But you just got to...

01:50:36.000 The problem is the...

01:50:38.000 The work that you put in this week and next week, you're not going to see for two or three weeks, you know, that delayed gratification.

01:50:44.000 But, I mean, I get my meals, it's six ounces of chicken, a cup of broccoli, two or three times a day, or I go beef and broccoli or...

01:50:54.000 Now, do you supplement with essential fatty acids or flaxseed oil or fish oils in the morning?

01:51:03.000 And then, yeah, I mean, when it comes to supplementation, I do protein and aminos every single day.

01:51:09.000 That's been my biggest thing.

01:51:11.000 Do you do branch-changed aminos after exercise?

01:51:13.000 Yeah, diametized BCAAs, 50-50 blend.

01:51:15.000 They have the...

01:51:16.000 It's like a 2-1-1, two of the leucine, one of the valine, one of the isoleucine.

01:51:22.000 How long do you take that right after training?

01:51:24.000 I usually drink one blender bottle, one serving of it as I'm going into practice, and then I'll have another one going into the next practice, and I'll have a protein shake after.

01:51:34.000 Maybe that's why you're throwing up.

01:51:36.000 No, I don't throw up.

01:51:37.000 I try to get myself to throw up, but I don't.

01:51:39.000 And I drink the diametized ISO 100 protein, which is the cleanest and almost lightest protein.

01:51:48.000 What is it based on?

01:51:49.000 What is it?

01:51:50.000 A whey protein?

01:51:51.000 Whey protein, yeah.

01:51:51.000 But it's a whey protein isolate.

01:51:53.000 So something in the way it breaks down or I don't know exactly all the specifics of it.

01:51:59.000 But when it comes to bodybuilding, a lot of those bodybuilders use that because of the fact that it's isolate.

01:52:03.000 Right.

01:52:04.000 And what about multivitamins, things along those lines?

01:52:09.000 Yeah, I mean, we go, I do like an athletic nutrients, which is basically just like a An extended version of a multivitamin.

01:52:17.000 I have this daily detox one that I take that has fish oils and a little bit of taurine, a little bit of other stuff in it.

01:52:25.000 Multivitamin, turmeric, honestly.

01:52:29.000 I mean, with the amount of inflammation I have, I try to do a lot of turmeric throughout training camps.

01:52:34.000 I try to stay away from The Aleves and the Tylenols and that kind of stuff unless I'm in pain.

01:52:41.000 That's terrible for you.

01:52:42.000 I want to try to get turmeric and drinking juices and that kind of stuff.

01:52:46.000 Turmeric, ginger, shots, cayenne pepper.

01:52:48.000 And you do that every day?

01:52:50.000 Yeah, I try to.

01:52:51.000 It's one of those things where it's like every day, but every day loosely.

01:52:54.000 That stuff's phenomenal for inflammation.

01:52:56.000 Yeah.

01:52:57.000 And what about, do you do cryo or do you get massages or sauna or anything like that?

01:53:05.000 I do.

01:53:05.000 I do soft.

01:53:06.000 I try to do a soft tissue massage or a sports massage, kind of rolfing ART almost every week.

01:53:12.000 I mean, like I was saying, I'm on my roller every single day before practice.

01:53:15.000 And that's when I really see, you know, like these times after a fight when I'm kind of Not working out as much or I'm not, you know, not everything is on because you can't be on all the time.

01:53:26.000 You know, everybody acts like they're on 365 or 365 days a year, but they're really not.

01:53:31.000 You know, after a fight, I kind of go less robot mode, you know, break my diet a little bit, enjoy staying up late, enjoy just doing whatever.

01:53:38.000 And then...

01:53:40.000 That's when I really realize, holy cow, I've been on my roller in four days, and that's why my back is hunched over and stuff.

01:53:45.000 Right, you just get too busy, and you just don't have the time to get it in there.

01:53:48.000 So I'm hitting my roller, and then I like to get a massage every single week.

01:53:53.000 Chiropractic, often.

01:53:55.000 Yeah, I saw something on Russian wrestlers where they were getting massage every day after training.

01:54:00.000 And I was like, wow.

01:54:01.000 Yeah.

01:54:01.000 I mean, I do the roller every day, so I imagine some sort of soft tissue work could be very...

01:54:07.000 I mean, man, we beat the crap out of our bodies, you know?

01:54:10.000 It's nothing like it.

01:54:11.000 I mean, other than football, I guess, in terms of the amount of abuse your body takes.

01:54:16.000 I mean, you're basically in a sport where your desire is to break someone's body.

01:54:22.000 Yeah.

01:54:23.000 And just the little things, man.

01:54:25.000 I was sparring with Nick Lentz two training camps ago.

01:54:28.000 And I threw a leg kick as he lifted his opposite leg up and literally just dead-legged me. 0.90

01:54:35.000 Like, Charlie horsed me with his knee.

01:54:37.000 It wasn't even supposed to happen.

01:54:39.000 He didn't mean to do it.

01:54:39.000 I didn't...

01:54:40.000 I was trying to throw the leg kick.

01:54:41.000 And I got the worst deep muscle, like, bone contusion in the middle of my, like...

01:54:47.000 Where your quads meet, right between the muscles.

01:54:50.000 And I could not walk.

01:54:51.000 I fell right to the ground.

01:54:53.000 Practice was over.

01:54:54.000 This was like three weeks before the fight, and I had to go see my guy CK in Florida, and he just had to work the heck out of it, man.

01:55:00.000 And I think that's one of the biggest things.

01:55:04.000 And I just talked to one of the guys at Mark Pro about, when we talk about injuries, we used to think rice, you know, rest, ice, compression, elevation, and that kind of stuff is, there's some conflicting kind of knowledge on all that kind of stuff, whereas instead of resting it, get in there right away and start moving it and mobilizing it with certain things.

01:55:24.000 Obviously, you've got a broken leg and you need to get it set and get it rested, but...

01:55:28.000 Do you do cryotherapy at all?

01:55:30.000 I don't.

01:55:31.000 I mean, I've done it a couple times.

01:55:32.000 I've done that a couple times.

01:55:34.000 I haven't done ice baths.

01:55:35.000 Really?

01:55:35.000 I mean, a lot of times it's just, you almost got to pick and choose.

01:55:38.000 There's only so many hours in the day, too, you know?

01:55:40.000 So it's like, you know, you're waking up and you've got only so much time before you go to practice.

01:55:45.000 And then you only have so much time to recover before the next practice.

01:55:48.000 And it's one of those things where I'm always getting a massage.

01:55:50.000 I'm always working on, you know, maybe I'm Doing massage and chiropractic during one camp, you know, it's almost like you got to pick and choose your battles.

01:55:58.000 If you have an awesome man warehouse like this where everything's in one spot, I would do it all every day.

01:56:03.000 But if you're down in Florida and this is, you know, cryo is 45 minutes away and your massage is 20 minutes the other direction and you're fighting Florida traffic, you really got to pick and choose your Your recovery methods, you know?

01:56:14.000 Right.

01:56:14.000 Now, your gym in Nashville, this is your gym, and I was following you on social media where you're putting up pictures, you're putting everything together.

01:56:23.000 How satisfying has that been?

01:56:25.000 It's awesome, man.

01:56:25.000 I think the It's satisfying now that it's open.

01:56:29.000 I mean, obviously there's a lot of work that goes involved.

01:56:31.000 Tell people how they can find out about it.

01:56:32.000 Where can you go?

01:56:33.000 We're at trainingcampnashville.com and follow us on Instagram at trainingcampnashville.

01:56:37.000 Now that we're open, I mean, my big thing is, you know, I'm very active on social media.

01:56:41.000 We want to start doing a ton of videos, a ton of kind of cool, similar workouts like I do and pump out a bunch of information out there.

01:56:49.000 I mean, my My biggest thing is I wouldn't be where I am today without surrounding myself with great people, great coaches, and be important, too.

01:56:56.000 And I just wanted to...

01:56:56.000 I had this vision 17 years ago.

01:56:59.000 And I was like...

01:57:00.000 I told my dad, I said, Dad, I want to open up a gym.

01:57:02.000 And he said, Well, if you're going to open up a gym, I'm going to build it with my bare hands.

01:57:05.000 And my dad now just finished my gym with his bare hands.

01:57:08.000 Wow.

01:57:08.000 So, you know...

01:57:09.000 That's fucking cool. 0.98

01:57:11.000 So, yeah. 0.99

01:57:12.000 I mean, every screw, every nail in that place was put in by my father.

01:57:16.000 Wow.

01:57:17.000 So it's cool.

01:57:18.000 And it was when I was 15 years old or whatever, very similar to my wife's vision of adopting a child.

01:57:25.000 And that came to fruition same exact year.

01:57:29.000 A lot of changes.

01:57:30.000 Yeah, a lot of changes.

01:57:31.000 But I mean, it's cool.

01:57:33.000 I wanted four walls and a roof where people can walk in and say, They're looking for a change or they're looking to, whether it's get stronger, get faster, lose that weight that they finally have been putting off.

01:57:46.000 I wanted a place where people can say, because of that guy or those people or that coach, I was able to enrich my life.

01:57:52.000 I was able to become a better person.

01:57:54.000 I was able to increase my self-confidence or just enrich life.

01:57:59.000 Classes for like just general fitness classes for martial arts beginners classes Do you have like the full range and then also professional?

01:58:06.000 Yeah, so I mean we we have a lot of a lot of stuff going on I I've almost been fighting a decade now.

01:58:12.000 I've been Started out in Missouri went to the West Coast now I'm training on the East Coast and I've been to Canada been to numerous training camps in between and And the gym is called training camp.

01:58:22.000 And the reason is because my life always revolves around training camp, you know?

01:58:26.000 And there's a difference between, like we just talked about, in training camp and out of training camp.

01:58:32.000 How'd you settle in Nashville?

01:58:34.000 My wife and I just love the city. 0.98

01:58:35.000 Fucking great city, isn't it? 0.98

01:58:36.000 Great city, yeah. 0.99

01:58:37.000 We're both from Missouri, so it's closer to home where we grew up.

01:58:41.000 We were living in San Diego together and wanted to just move back closer to the Midwest.

01:58:46.000 We love the city.

01:58:46.000 We have a bunch of friends in the music industry, so we, you know, Had some friends there already and visited and went to a couple award shows and said, man, this place is cool.

01:58:55.000 I was just there a couple weeks ago, like four or five weeks ago, whatever it was.

01:58:59.000 I love it there, man.

01:59:00.000 It's a cool city.

01:59:00.000 It's an amazing city.

01:59:01.000 It really is.

01:59:02.000 From top to bottom, too.

01:59:03.000 And we met so many people, and you kind of prod and ask questions, and they just said, man, it's a great place to raise a family.

01:59:08.000 It's a great school system.

01:59:10.000 The weather is better than Missouri, but it's...

01:59:14.000 You know, you get all four seasons.

01:59:15.000 It's a great place to raise a family.

01:59:16.000 And that's kind of what we knew.

01:59:17.000 We were about to start a family, so we wanted to do that.

01:59:20.000 And love the city.

01:59:22.000 And I saw an untapped MMA market there, too.

01:59:26.000 You know, I mean, there was a couple of MMA gyms there, but there was no legitimate pro fighters that were there.

01:59:31.000 I mean, Luke Sanders is from there in the UFC. He went out to California.

01:59:35.000 Dustin Ortiz was there.

01:59:37.000 Both of those guys were born and raised there.

01:59:38.000 They both went other places.

01:59:39.000 I said, you know what?

01:59:41.000 I want to go to Nashville, and I'm going to make it the premier place.

01:59:44.000 My gym is going to be the premier place to do mixed martial arts training in Nashville, and we're going to put Nashville on the map.

01:59:50.000 Now, you're going to have wrestling classes, kickboxing classes, the whole...

01:59:54.000 All of it.

01:59:56.000 So back to that, we have a lot of stuff going on.

01:59:57.000 We have 3,000 square foot of just fitness area where it's rolled rubber, flooring, turf, plate-loaded machines, squat racks, dumbbells, group fitness area.

02:00:06.000 Right next to that, we have 3,000 square foot of mat space where we're going to have a youth wrestling club that has a half wall around it.

02:00:13.000 We started a youth wrestling club this week, coupled with another 3,000 square foot of mats.

02:00:18.000 1,500 there, 1,500 of the Fuji Tatami mats for boxing, kickboxing, BJJ, MMA, all that kind of stuff.

02:00:25.000 And then that 900 square foot yoga studio, plus...

02:00:28.000 We have our recovery area that we have a guy named Scott Dunnaway at ChiroStrengths.

02:00:32.000 He's a chiropractor, ART, and corrective exercise guy.

02:00:35.000 Plus, we're trying to bring in another massage therapist that's going to be there three days a week. 1.00

02:00:39.000 And then I'm also going to talk to a cryo guy as well who has an extra tank that I'm going to try to set something up with, I think.

02:00:45.000 That's awesome, man.

02:00:46.000 So then when everything's under one roof, then we're like...

02:00:48.000 Hey, Joe, I've been doing cryo, man.

02:00:50.000 Because I wasn't 45 minutes away, you know?

02:00:52.000 Yeah, well, that is the thing, right?

02:00:53.000 It's time management when you're training how many times a day when you're in camp?

02:00:57.000 Twice, usually.

02:00:58.000 But then there's always something, too.

02:01:01.000 Media obligations.

02:01:03.000 Media obligations.

02:01:04.000 Even with your nutrition stuff, it's like, oh, man, I've got to go Got to go make a Whole Foods run to get my almond milk and my avocados because I make my own breakfast but the rest of my stuff is in MegaFit Meals containers.

02:01:18.000 So there's always a grocery store to go to or there's always a media obligation or there's always something and it's all time management.

02:01:24.000 It was always interesting when I heard people like, yeah, I train 10 hours a day and I'm like...

02:01:29.000 Really?

02:01:30.000 How do you train 10 hours a day without your body falling apart, you know?

02:01:33.000 Yeah, people exaggerate a little bit.

02:01:35.000 And I'm like, I train two hours in the morning, balls to the wall, and I train two hours in that, and at night, balls to the wall.

02:01:40.000 And then in between.

02:01:41.000 Then I'm like, okay, pass out, wake up, do it all over again, Groundhog's Day, embrace the monotony, chicken, broccoli, eggs, avocado, let's do it for eight weeks, and...

02:01:50.000 Make weight.

02:01:51.000 Well, listen, Michael, I'm glad we finally got a chance to get together and have this conversation and let people know what you're all about, man.

02:01:57.000 And I'm a big fan and I really appreciate you coming in here and I hope one day I can commentate one of your fights and it won't be in Bellator.

02:02:06.000 That would be great, man.

02:02:07.000 Thank you, brother.

02:02:08.000 I really, really appreciate it, man.

02:02:09.000 Thank you.

The Joe Rogan Experience - June 15, 2010

JRE MMA Show #25 with Michael Chandler

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript