This week, the boys are joined by former UFC Heavyweight champion Josh Barnett to talk about his retirement from the UFC, his return to the MMA, and the return of the NJPW commentary booth on AXS TV with Jim Ross. They also discuss the rise and fall of pro wrestling in recent years and the potential return of some of the old boys from the NWA, including Billy Corgan and the Smashing Pumpkins. Plus, the guys discuss the future of the UFC and Josh's plans for the future in MMA and what it means for the rest of his future in pro wrestling. And of course, there's a surprise guest appearance by the one and only Josh Barnett! Subscribe to the podcast and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and we'll read it out on the next episode. Thanks for listening and Good Luck Out There! - Your Support is greatly appreciated and we really appreciate it. - The Barnardsons Josh Barnett The Barnardons Podcast is brought to you by Droga5.co.nz.nz/TheBarnardsons.nz We're working on transcribing this podcast and putting it on a website so we can make it as good as possible. Please don't forget to rate, review, subscribe and subscribe to our other shows! and spread the word to your friends about what we're doing! We'll be looking out for you in the future episodes! Thank you for all the love, support, support and support, and keep spreading the word out there! Cheers! Love ya, bye, bye! Josh, Josh, bye. - Josh, Cheers, - P.S. - MURY! - Your support is appreciated! - Cheers. - EJ & G.A. ( ) - M.B. - SONGS! - A.J. & B.J., R. M. & K. (A.M. (S. (M. ) - D. (R. B. (C. (J. B.) ) CHEERY ( ) - JOSEPH ( ) & JOSH ( ) (SZN ( ) .R. (B. A. J. (P. (D. (V. (TAYLOR ( ) ) ) & SZN) (SCHOOTCH ( ))
00:00:23.000I decided to leave the fold of the UFC and chase my own futures by my own hands.
00:00:32.000Are you actively competing or going to be actively competing?
00:00:37.000There'll be some grappling stuff this year, but I'm figuring by the start of next year, I'll get back into the MMA circuits, mainly because it's just going to take some time to set up camps, managers, the structure of everything.
00:00:50.000I have proper sparring partners and all that.
00:00:53.000In the meantime, we were talking about you're doing commentary for New Japan Pro Wrestling with Jim Ross, and you do it on AXS TV, right?
00:00:59.000That's right, every Friday night at 8. You can see me sit down and run my mouth about wrestling.
00:01:06.000We just did the live show up at the Cow Palace in San Francisco, which they've been having sporadic wrestling events there, but it was a big draw in that building in the 60s and 70s, I guess.
00:01:27.000Yeah, I think that there's a certain audience of a certain age gap that our age group that has come into flourishing in the internet and other ways to which to go ahead and bring wrestling back up there and show that wrestling, whether it's The biggest company, like the WWE, all the way to say, you know, number two would be New Japan.
00:01:51.000And then there's all these independent companies all over the place.
00:01:54.000Some of them have quite a decent following as well.
00:01:57.000You know Billy Corgan from the Smashing Pumpkins?
00:02:09.000You mean, that's what I hear, what I hear NWA. I'm sure there's some attitude involved with wrestling NWA. I can't speak about the rest of it, but NWA was, is, I guess still, it's a legendary sanctioning body.
00:02:26.000And so it wasn't any one particular company, but it was a...
00:02:30.000A sanctioning body that would then oversee certain titles.
00:02:34.000And so if you're going to be on this show at this time, you're going to defend the NWA Championship, the NWA Commission would get involved, and they had their specifications as to how the title matches would be run and whether or not you could lose by disqualification or not, or if you could go over the top rope would be a DQ, and little stuff like that.
00:03:54.000You know shows that are abroad like there are some shows that will go on in Germany and Austria that Will get streamed and people get a hold of them.
00:04:02.000They get to watch them So it's not like the tape trading days of the of yesteryear.
00:04:05.000Does Jim Ross hook you up with his barbecue sauce?
00:04:08.000Apparently he's got some fucking killer barbecue sauce.
00:04:12.000He's got sauce, he's got rubs He's got a whole menagerie of all your meat fixings.
00:05:06.000So you have like the main chamber and then you got a little wood box on the side where the wood's heating up and then the air goes through and it...
00:08:13.000Well, or they attempted to in some way.
00:08:15.000Not to mention they would, they started trying to incorporate smog elements to try and reduce the amount of smog, these things, but they were just Highly inefficient the way they were going about it with the AIR stuff and different processes that were like things connected to the heads and it was bad news.
00:08:36.000Yeah, it was a rough time for America.
00:10:09.000So I got this jacket, and I've always wanted one ever since I was a kid.
00:10:13.000And I went to this store in New York because there wasn't a location locally where I could just try the jackets on, and I didn't want to buy an expensive jacket and have to send it back, all this stuff.
00:10:24.000I was in New York, went to the store, found the jacket that fit me, loved it, bought it, been wearing leather and living crap out of it, taken it all kinds of places.
00:10:31.000It's been in nasty black metal mosh pits with it on.
00:10:34.000I've been all around the world with it.
00:10:37.000A leather jacket is made to tell a story eventually at the end of its life.
00:10:42.000But people will go, oh, you know, do you ride a bike?
00:10:45.000I'm like, no, the reason why I have this jacket is because of Mad Max and the Road Warrior.
00:10:51.000Because when I saw that as a kid, those jackets looked badass and, you know, here's the bronze, the MFP running around in their Falcons just tearing ass and blowing shit up wearing these jackets.
00:11:22.000And then as I started to think about it more and more and more, it seems like there is a attempt within society to try and present the image of toughness, right?
00:11:33.000So from haircuts to jackets to all these different kinds of things, everyone's trying to appear to be tough and badass all the time without – but people aren't going out there and necessarily risking it like they used to.
00:11:48.000They're not generally taking on these jobs that are dangerous.
00:11:52.000People want to have muscle cars, but they don't want to work on them.
00:11:58.000It's like by having the item, it somehow implies some sort of...
00:12:18.000And you'll see all the 30-year-old Hollywood-y type dudes with the manicured beards and all that on their Harleys that have all been turned into choppers.
00:12:29.000It's like a big show of toughness because people aren't going out there and...
00:12:51.000And even though a woman that's appearing to be tough, I mean, you would call it a masculine trait, even though that doesn't mean that they're being a man.
00:12:58.000Well, she's putting out a signal, right?
00:13:00.000A chick that wears like a leather jacket and rides a bike, she's putting out a signal like, you better be a bad motherfucker if you want this, bitch, or I'm into girls.
00:13:47.000It's totally anecdotal, but it just seems like people are attempting to try and...
00:13:51.000I always tell people about looking at human history, I go, the issues that we deal with, the things that affect us, are not new.
00:14:00.000In a lot of ways, they're just more magnified, especially with social media.
00:14:06.000Social media, I believe, picks and preys on certain elements of our way of being, our process.
00:14:12.000And it heightens our responses to certain things, but it also heightens what we see from these responses.
00:14:19.000Because when somebody is, let's say, massively insecure...
00:14:24.000So social media can really play hell on that and make you feel more insecure, especially if you're putting – depending on where you're putting value on what you see or what is said about you or how you are necessarily – if you're comparing yourself to others.
00:14:41.000Also, when you respond to that in some way through your own social media, be it by trying to take more grandiose photos or I don't know, whatever sort of signaling of how to make up for that, it shines even that much more to everybody else.
00:14:57.000So what you do get seen as much as you see what everybody else does and then you're given an option on how do you react to that.
00:15:07.000Well, if you're not – I mean these are the sort of – you can go back into old books on philosophy and old historical texts.
00:15:18.000We're not all that much more different from 1,000 years or 2,000 years or 3,000 years in the way we react and respond to things than we are now.
00:15:28.000It's just that all these things are amplified under the elements of technology that are around us and how they can affect us and how much easier it is for those things to get to us.
00:16:14.000And then even amongst that, it's like, well, I mean to a degree, if it's your social media and you are the prime element within it, of course, it would be a bit self-absorbed.
00:16:25.000But I think there's more nuance to it than that.
00:16:28.000And it's not just to pick on say the gals that are taking all the sexy selfies and all There's the dudes that do essentially the same equivalent and it's all, you know, often it could be in a response to drive attention towards themselves.
00:16:42.000But why do you want that attention in the first place?
00:16:45.000And then, of course, that's something you can't know until you know the person exactly.
00:16:49.000Well, a lot of girls make a living off of it.
00:17:27.000Lloyds of London, what will you give me per cheek on insurance on this?
00:17:31.000I mean, she has a tremendous ass, don't get me wrong, but it's just weird when there's this one body part that essentially defines your identity.
00:17:42.000Which is weirder, that this person with this fantastic, monumental, epic-level ass is out there taking photos of it and putting it out there for people to see, or that people not only continue to look at it, but more flock to this religious icon of an ass, apparently.
00:18:24.000And also, it wouldn't be surprised that women, in terms of that kind of shallow aspect of social media, in that way, could make more impact out of it.
00:18:35.000Because even when you look at, say, all the women's magazines and all that kind of stuff, women want to look at hot women.
00:20:50.000I can't say that I have a reason why it makes sense.
00:20:54.000Hey, maybe it's simply because we view it as something that, or we see women do it more, and so we think that a man is somehow doing something womanly?
00:21:49.000Your personality is at least as important as the way you look.
00:21:55.000And if your personality is such that you need to shoot plastic in your face...
00:22:03.000In order to feel good about yourself, I've got to go, ooh, what's happening there below the surface?
00:22:09.000It could be an indicator of something more serious that no matter how much filler or how nice it could look, maybe there's still going to be an issue per se.
00:22:19.000It's also one of those things just like anorexia or bodybuilders that can never get big enough where they have body dysmorphia.
00:22:25.000People don't know what they really look like.
00:22:27.000Do you know about the Fibonacci sequence?
00:23:56.000I've been told, though, I've had some girls go, man, you're actually a way better kisser than I expected because it seems like you have no lips.
00:25:44.000Go back to that article on the golden ratio of the face, please, and you'll see there's a whole mathematical sort of algorithm that they can use to sort of explain what is and is not normal in the shape of your face.
00:26:03.000Like, look at what the fuck's her name?
00:28:23.000They're subjective, you know, for that time and that moment.
00:28:26.000And plus, there is everything that's going around you.
00:28:29.000And if we're all in here and we're, say, we're drinking coffee and we think that this is the way to be, and then everyone else out and around us is like, well, they're all drinking energy drinks.
00:28:38.000Well, energy drinks are actually the best thing.
00:28:40.000Well, now there's this other thing that you see.
00:28:42.000And perhaps then that bleeds into what?
00:28:55.000And if someone else is, you know, God in war, if they take one of your teammates and then cut them to pieces and send them back to you, then all of a sudden, you're going to do the same.
00:30:31.000If you look at Rockstar List as being 240 or something around there at the whole can and Monster List as being 130. Dude, this is 270. Whoa.
00:30:44.000Yeah, these little bad boys are 270. God damn it, Tate.
00:30:46.000You're trying to make me jump out of this chair.
00:30:50.000Tate's trying to give people heart attacks.
00:32:16.000I mean, I didn't think that in a lot of ways we would end up to where we are at this point in so many of the social and cultural elements and that didn't even just specifically stay within the U.S. but seem to be bleeding throughout all of Western society and civilization at large.
00:33:30.000This is like a glorified fucking water sock.
00:33:33.000This is like the thing you see some doofus with those frog skin things on his glasses to keep him from falling off while he's wandering around in the, you know...
00:35:33.000I can at least say as an athlete that maybe they've got their slides on because they're going to take those slides off and put their basketball shoes right on.
00:35:39.000So for them, it's like I'm out of uniform at the moment.
00:35:44.000But I'm ready to go to combat basketball-wise at any moment.
00:36:19.000Well, you know, I guess you don't need a real shoe if you throw on, you walk out with your socks on, you throw on your sliders and get on your hoverboard or fucking electric scooter.
00:36:36.000But, you know, I got one of my beefs, not with Teslas per se in any way, but I would say, be talking about cars with somebody out and about, and they'll...
00:36:46.000We'll have some conversation and I'll bring up some car or talking about something like the Dodge.
00:36:52.000Now it wasn't the Demon, when the Hellcat came out.
00:39:31.000I'm also a little weirded out by the over-electronic element of modern life.
00:39:36.000I realize the usefulness of it, but I always think about when some shit goes south, I can't just fix it and we keep going.
00:39:46.000Or if something goes bad, it could go bad in a lot of different ways and there's a chain of command of bad that it's all linked to that it could go to as well.
00:39:54.000And so I'm just like, Plus, when you talk about engines, you start up your Porsche, you start up a Vette, you start up an LS motor, and then you start it up next to a big block Pontiac, you start it up next to a big block Ford, and everything has a different feel.
00:40:11.000The different cam that's in it makes it sound different, makes it operate different.
00:40:14.000The exhaust that's on it, everything changes.
00:40:18.000Based on all kinds of different elements, and so the car, even of itself, not just the exterior of it, but the internals make it seem like a different vehicle.
00:42:21.000According to the internet, it's real small when you watch those fucking stupid street fight videos.
00:42:26.000It's always people that don't have any idea what they're doing.
00:42:30.000I'm always amazed at people's overestimation of what they can do with their body, especially when it pertains to animals, like what you would do if an animal was coming at you.
00:42:41.000You know what my favorite thing to watch is?
00:42:43.000One of my favorite things of the last couple weeks?
00:43:36.000And what if it gets a beat on you, and then all of a sudden they go, nope, you're the only one out of this entire crowd of 500 people right now that it wants to gore.
00:45:36.000You've talked a lot about it, and then Jordan Peterson and his daughter as well.
00:45:39.000Well, I talked about it with Chris Bell first, who's been on it for...
00:45:43.000I Think he's been on it for at least six months or so and he's having Radical improvements and one of the reasons that he's having improvements and then Jordan's having tremendous results and Jordan's daughter as well is arthritis.
00:50:15.000Well, I had four chickens, and one time there was a little miniature chihuahua or a little mini dachshund, maybe?
00:50:23.000It was a minpin, and it got into the yard and ended up in the backyard, and the four chickens cornered it and wouldn't let it leave.
00:50:35.000And so it's back there whining and yelping and eventually my ex at the time went and caught the dog and then tried to figure out whose it was and what have you.
00:50:44.000And it turned out it was chipped, I think, and it got given somewhere where someone could then track them down.
00:50:50.000But it was just hilarious that these chickens were like, fuck you, motherfucker, you're in the wrong place.
00:53:18.000The only part of a mosquito's life I enjoy or think is interesting is when they're larva and they're these fucking vicious little things with these giant hooked teeth That can't even eat little fish and all that kind of stuff in the ponds.
00:53:31.000Dude, when I first moved to California, I rented this house in Encino and nobody lived in it for like a year and a half, two years, something like that.
00:53:38.000And they had a pool in the backyard that was just sitting there with no chemicals in it.
00:54:34.000There's a meme out there, and I think it's a picture, and it's repeated on the bottom as well, of a PETA billboard.
00:54:45.000And it's got these animals all standing in a line, and it says, where do you draw the line between food and friend or whatever.
00:54:53.000And then someone else has, and they've got the same thing down there, and it's like, you know, this is normal food, there's a catastrophic event, apocalypse.
00:55:07.000Well, you know, being a vegetarian or a vegan is a very, it's a very first world option.
00:55:12.000The reason why people got to this point is because we figured out a way to survive eating all the animals around us, just like they figured out a way to survive eating the animals around them.
00:55:22.000Well, any of the arguments that, oh, this culture is mostly vegetarian or this or that.
00:55:26.000And it's like, okay, well, it's also highly based on what was available.
00:55:31.000They didn't just say, I don't want to hurt the animals.
00:55:34.000Well, the only people that did is the Hindu.
00:55:52.000Really interesting thoughts about the universe, but a lot of people believe that that was due to psychedelic drugs and one of the reasons why they believed they had this interesting relationship with cattle but not with lamb was because cattle shit would grow magic mushrooms on it.
00:56:08.000This is Because Soma is a big part of ancient Hindu folklore and their religion and their ancient texts.
00:56:44.000But they think that their aversion to eating cows may have had something to do with the fact that these cows would shit, and then the mushrooms would grow out of cow shit, and then they would eat these mushrooms and have these profound experiences.
00:56:57.000And so they thought of these cows as conduits to God.
00:57:01.000But then there's also they probably drank the milk and they probably used them to plow the fields to grow their food.
00:57:10.000So it's interesting because when a culture has an aversion to eating a very specific animal and that specific animal also is the main source of psychedelic mushrooms, to ignore that connection seems a little bit weird.
00:58:29.000But the, like, ancient Hindu art, there's this iconography, there's, like, these iconic imagery, this iconic imagery that you see when you do psychedelics.
00:58:40.000You see a lot of this stuff, particularly on mushrooms for some reason.
00:58:44.000You'll see, like, ancient Hindu and sometimes ancient Egyptian shit, too.
00:58:49.000Well, I know, you know, you can see, you'll see geometric shapes appear out of, and, you know, to me, I'm just like, well, that's just what you see when you're poisoned.
00:58:58.000But it's an interesting way of looking at it.
00:59:49.000We're living in a Huxley version because Huxley and Orwell saw it from two different ways.
00:59:54.000And Orwell was more of the, there would be force and violence and direct suppression of individuals and groups and retrain.
01:00:06.000Now there is thought policing and, you know, even though they call them Equity, diversity, whatever departments.
01:00:14.000I mean, there are people that are there to, you know, they have these cabals that try to force everybody to be in line, but they're not necessarily gassing folks or beating on them or what have you, shock therapy.
01:00:27.000However, Huxley's version of how this would all go badly was that Everybody would be so comfortable, that there would be so much luxury and pleasure, and that you would just not fight back.
01:00:42.000Anything that they would try to impart upon you, the way they would get you to do it, is just make your life even softer and even easier.
01:00:50.000Yeah, Huxley was right in that regard.
01:00:51.000And also, there's so little danger in the world, and so little real drama, that we look for drama.
01:01:12.000It's real reason that the mayor of Durham apparently said something about Jordan Peterson that Jordan Peterson is not welcome in Durham, North Carolina.
01:01:27.000Because of his transphobic and racist views.
01:03:24.000State-compelled speech, meaning that there was a bunch of different words that they were forcing people to use that were these new gender pronouns.
01:03:34.000And they have human rights councils in Canada, and he's a clinical psychologist, and he's very well-read, and he understands Marxism and all the pitfalls.
01:03:46.000Postmodernism and neo-Marxism and its evolution from classical Marxism and how it's been influenced, the difference between emphasizing the superstructure over the base.
01:05:21.000It doesn't talk about education level, job for job, hours work.
01:05:26.000I mean, no one's saying that things couldn't be better.
01:05:29.000Yeah, people who haven't heard this argument before, when you hear about the wage gap, the gender wage gap, it's not people doing the same job.
01:05:39.000It's not people doing the same job, and it's not people working the same hours.
01:05:42.000The reason why men make more money is they do different jobs.
01:05:44.000Now, are those jobs more difficult for women to get is the real question.
01:05:47.000Some of them, I imagine they are, perhaps.
01:05:50.000I mean, I never doubt that there is a potential sexism or any sort of ism to some degree in something.
01:05:56.000There's sexism coming from both sides of the tracks, too, by the way.
01:05:59.000How many women want to be working on a fucking oil rig out in the middle of or doing pipelines up in frozen South North Dakota or something?
01:06:08.000And how many of them are physically capable of doing the work, too?
01:06:43.000Don't diminish the compliments of someone else just because it doesn't fit what you think is Well, the problem is when we get into teams, man.
01:06:49.000I mean, toxic tribalism is the real problem.
01:06:51.000The real problem is people get into teams, whether it's male versus female, and this mayor of Durham guaranteed it's a Democrat.
01:08:07.000It's based on the concept of conflict theory.
01:08:09.000So there's always going to be an oppressor and an oppressed.
01:08:12.000So if what you are doing is trying to argue with or even just make your case to someone who's an oppressor, well, it would be weaponized because as far as you're concerned, everything they do is weaponized against you.
01:08:25.000So you've already chosen a confrontational position.
01:08:29.000Trevor Burrus There's also a problem with people wanting to be right.
01:08:35.000Also, whether it's someone who's a post-modernist or someone who's a staunch conservative, people go into any discussion with a pre-supposed or they have a pre-ordained or they have a collected group of ideas that they have attached themselves to.
01:08:56.000It's very difficult for people to just talk.
01:08:59.000Very difficult for people to just someone to lay out their position and someone else to lay out their position and two people to like cordially discuss the merits of each position with an open mind.
01:09:10.000It happens so rarely and it's something I try so hard to do and it's something that it took me years to cultivate the mindset To not have these pre-existing ideas, or if I do have them, don't attach myself to them, and be ready to abandon them at any moment, under new evidence.
01:09:32.000Sure, and there's no problem in saying, okay, well, I believe A and you believe B, and we both believe them to be correct.
01:10:07.000But if you're going to make a claim, you're going to have to defend your argument, and I'll defend mine.
01:10:11.000But ultimately, I don't care if I'm wrong, because being wrong only means that I can then perhaps work towards a way of having the most understanding that I can have.
01:10:20.000We, as human beings, are wrong so much more than we're ever right.
01:10:24.000But by being wrong, by making mistakes, it's like through martial arts, by being on the mats, And, you know, I'm going to get this guy's ankle right now.
01:10:43.000I wasn't securing the knee well enough, so it was always sliding out of position.
01:10:46.000I couldn't, you know, keep the leg framed in such a position where when I applied my hold, the pressure went for the joint that I needed it to.
01:10:53.000None of that happens until you make mistake after mistake after mistake after mistake.
01:10:58.000And there's nothing wrong with before moving forward on something to sit back and to study a little bit and to try and understand somewhat of the landscape.
01:11:08.000But eventually the only thing you can do is you just got to go, right?
01:11:12.000Paralysis through analysis isn't going to help you either.
01:11:14.000Well, I lived a good portion of my life wanting to be right always.
01:11:22.000It's terrible for you because you don't grow, and then you have to live in denial, and then you have to always tell yourself that you were right and they were wrong, even if you get out-debated, or even if you're faced with new evidence, you try to ignore that new evidence.
01:12:15.000Whether or not Marxism can be successfully implemented in a large scale with a sensitive, compassionate group of human beings that all live together.
01:12:41.000Well, the argument that it could work is that— But see what I'm saying?
01:12:45.000Like, these are, like, really broad, complex, nuanced concepts that need to be discussed up and down and back and forth.
01:12:54.000And you also need to look at the weight of human history, the myriad times it's— Right.
01:13:00.000And just human history and even in ways at which it's not directly related to, say, Marxism, but just to look at patterns and trends and ways of people of operating and to see how, okay, well, given a different circumstance, how would that process work within this one or in this one or in this one or in this one?
01:13:20.000Well, if you're like, well, I don't think Marxism will work.
01:13:24.000But you can't say that until you actually study what Marxism is and what its principles are.
01:13:28.000Because if you don't understand the argument, and this is like John Stuart Mill, you can't just defend your side without knowledge of the other.
01:13:43.000I mean, I think everybody should do that.
01:13:44.000No matter what you're looking at, like whatever you're trying to defend, even if it's something horrible, even if it's like a racist position, find out why these people support this.
01:14:02.000I could see where they could take this way to its extreme and that – I mean that's nonsensical, but you see where it started or you can see like that that's – everything about this is clearly driven by something else and not what they claim.
01:14:15.000Well, it's also the – one of the things about society is that we really have to take into consideration is the momentum of the past.
01:14:21.000Like there's – this country has unique – Freedom to it because it was literally created by people who decided to get on a boat and risk traveling across the ocean to some new land.
01:14:34.000It's a country filled with savages like crazy people that took wild chances and did wild things because of it.
01:14:41.000And if you look at the history of this country that's clearly established by, look at the art, look at the music, look at the things that have come out, the comedy, all the things that have been created, the cars, all the different things that have come out of this one place.
01:14:54.000And this one place just happens to be the most recent place with the least amount of historical baggage.
01:15:23.000And if you were to say, think about communism and the Soviet states in the length of what constitutes human history, Is has only been gone for it was only it was around for a short time and it's only been gone for an even shorter time And it's not really how many it's gone, but it's still a dictatorship over there.
01:15:43.000Uh, yeah, I guess there's China and Russia Did you hear about that lady in Iran that she's going to jail the dancing years fucking dancing?
01:15:52.000Oh, no, the Egyptian girl the girl the Lebanese girls going to jail for She she made a YouTube video about getting sexually harassed in Egypt.
01:16:00.000Okay So they sentenced her to eight years in prison.
01:16:59.000They're allowed to protest what he has to say, counter protest if they want or to express their unhappiness with things political and things media.
01:17:08.000Anybody can say what they want in terms of what makes them unhappy without fear of the government silencing you.
01:17:51.000And while the Crusades are not nearly as cut and dry as you think they are, in fact, which had ended in the Fourth Crusade, two groups went down there and then end up fighting each other.
01:18:40.000I mean, most of the time it goes bad when you have a powerful, potent ideology that is dominating a culture.
01:18:46.000Well, imagine, okay, you had Christian zealotry and let's say Islam and Christianity had swapped.
01:18:54.000And Islam had all kinds of reformations and different sects break off from it and all this.
01:18:59.000And it had become more like Christianity in this modern era.
01:19:01.000But Christianity stayed in a more less developed sense and had a more rigorous, fervent zealotry in terms of adherence to doctrines or at least – or even interpretations of doctrines in certain ways.
01:19:50.000March them all down into the Middle East to where you've got the Turks waiting for you that they've done the same thing and then you guys all meet up on these different points of battle.
01:19:59.000You could literally be at war all over the world all day, every day, all at the same time because of the modern advances of technology.
01:20:09.000And not to mention you have firearms, you have Explosives and chemicals and things that you can use to your disposal.
01:20:39.000If you were to track the mass shootings that have happened, the rise of social media and the rise of mass shootings would be on a parallel.
01:20:48.000I really think that it's social media that's increasing the amount that you see with the school shootings and things like that.
01:20:55.000They get fame or you're able to antagonize someone and they can't get away from you much more easily.
01:21:03.000The ressentiment, using a Nietzschean term in terms of...
01:21:08.000The resentment, the resentfulness from seeing other people having what you think you deserve or thinking that they somehow are having more of what you think.
01:21:21.000Why do they get to have it and I don't?
01:21:23.000Or any number of reasons why you can be incredibly, potently resentful.
01:21:28.000And now you have this thing that's just in your life pumping all this kind of stuff at you all the time.
01:21:34.000time, and I think that it can affect people in some really pathologically bad ways.
01:21:40.000And now you have technology to also enact it.
01:21:43.000And if it's not – in the end, you can also easily make the argument if it's not a firearm, it could be something else, and that doesn't make it any better.
01:21:51.000But I think that the rise of social media has been – is a direct correlator – it's It's directly responsible for the rise in these school shootings.
01:22:22.000Now imagine all that with the technology of social media able to heighten some of the effects of some of these things or to create...
01:22:31.000So someone that feels alienated Imagine now, not only do you feel alienated in the real world, but then when you're on social media, one, it's not a real...
01:22:43.000Your body knows it's not the real world, but you could be alienated out there too.
01:22:46.000And that which alienates you there could still penetrate and get to you while you're away from it.
01:22:53.000If people are fucking with you at school or what have you, then you're at home, you're feeling alienated there, and then...
01:22:58.000This is continuing to fuck with you through social media.
01:23:01.000Or other people are fucking with you on social media.
01:23:04.000Let's say you're playing your video games and people are talking shit because you keep getting shot in Battlefield V or whatever.
01:23:10.000And then all these things are just compounding.
01:23:13.000And while no one knows, I mean, I'm sure you wouldn't necessarily know that if I say, oh, you know, fuck you, noob, or something on some video game, that this person...
01:23:22.000Is essentially in real life being told fuck you every day, all day, feeling like the whole world thinks fuck you.
01:23:59.000The fact that a lot of these people are on disassociatives.
01:24:03.000A lot of these people are on serious psych medications that we really have only been studying the effects on human beings for the past couple decades.
01:24:12.000There's not a whole lot of data on long-term use of these SSRIs over 20, 30, 40 years.
01:24:18.000So you've got varying peoples with varying mental illnesses, varying psychological pressures and stresses and lives that are just beyond fucked, and then they have access to guns.
01:24:29.000And they want people to hurt the way they're hurting.
01:24:54.000I think that is a really new situation for human beings.
01:24:59.000They overlook the historical significance of the population growths, the population density that has been gathering as we get into these high-density civilized areas like cities, these big cities, and it changes everything.
01:25:18.000Yeah, and people are less likely to know that many.
01:25:20.000Like, if you live in a town of 150 people, you probably know 150 people.
01:25:25.000If you live in a city of 5 million people, you probably know 10 people.
01:25:32.000Unless you're a really social person, you probably have a way more limited number of people that you actually know than people that have a tight-knit, small town and small community.
01:25:43.000But those people are obviously in your business.
01:26:13.000We started this podcast talking about...
01:26:16.000We had talked about your situation with...
01:26:19.000Brendan Chobb and I had talked about your situation where you tested positive from a tainted supplement, like legitimately tested positive from a tainted supplement.
01:26:30.000You were cleared, but this whole process was a goat rope.
01:26:37.000It took a long time to work out and you didn't feel no fairly treated not in the least it It started one way then took a fucking curve What happened?
01:30:47.000If they're going to give you a strike...
01:30:50.000Like, don't they have to follow their protocol?
01:30:54.000And their protocol is you have to inform them of where you're going to be, right?
01:30:57.000So if you did that, you informed them where you're going to be.
01:31:00.000Yes, my manager literally told Nowitzki and the UFC, he's not going to be home for almost a month, and he's fucking practically backpacking all through Europe, going from place to place to place.
01:31:14.000So he's going to be real hard to get a hold of.
01:32:28.000But even if you are not fighting, like say if you're running out the door and you have a business appointment, how long does it take for them to test you?
01:32:36.000It depends on what they're doing, whether it's blood and urine or just urine.
01:32:40.000But with me, it's always been blood and urine.
01:32:42.000So you can't say, hey, you guys are going to have to come with me because I got to go to this fucking audition.
01:33:54.000All these tests over all these years, me being the first person to do complete out of competition or in competition random urine and blood testing when I worked with WADA and the Nevada State Athletic Commission when I fought Travis Brown.
01:34:09.000So no one had ever done actual random testing before and there was no USADA involved in the UFC yet.
01:35:25.000I had an issue with what I believe ultimately to be a contamination, but I didn't take all the steps that I had this time.
01:35:34.000And once that whole process was such a motherfucker, I'm like, this is never going to happen again.
01:35:38.000So every supplement lot that I took, I would always keep bits of it behind until I felt there was enough time to expire that I can get rid of it because no one's going to come back and test me.
01:36:53.000That's what happened to Tim Means as well.
01:36:55.000So then we're in contact with USADA throughout the entirety of this.
01:36:59.000So we don't ever break contact with USADA. We have a specific guy.
01:37:04.000I'm not going to throw his name out there or anything, but we have a guy that we spoke to directly the whole time through my manager, speaking with him.
01:37:14.000And so we're talking about how we know this is a contamination.
01:37:18.000And when we get done with all this, why don't we even try to put together something, some promotional stuff, anything that we can do to try and keep athletes from ending up in the same issues.
01:37:29.000And we'd like to do whatever we could to help you guys out with this.
01:38:17.000If someone tests positive for something that's a tainted supplement and it's a third-party supplement and where it's not third-party verified, rather?
01:38:25.000Well, I don't even know if it was third-party verified that anything would be any different.
01:38:31.000Okay, well, if it is third-party verified and still is tainted, yeah, that would be an issue, right?
01:40:42.000So how did it ultimately get resolved?
01:40:44.000Well, ultimately what ended up happening is we had to go to arbitration.
01:40:48.000That was all that was really left to us because then they started trying to bring up stuff from my past and then weigh that against me as well.
01:40:56.000And it's like, whoa, dude, you guys weren't even around.
01:40:58.000And now you get to decide to add to the weight of whatever punishment you want to levy against me based on things that didn't involve you?
01:41:52.000It's like they became a completely different animal as soon as there was the evidence of contamination and that I wasn't willing to take.
01:42:06.000What do you think their motivation is here?
01:42:09.000I think that they, and this is just my opinion, I think the way USADA looks at it, and it's an easy way to go about it, is that the more people they ding, the more effective they appear.
01:42:18.000Their efficacy is based on punishments doled out, not on lack of punishments at all.
01:42:26.000So do you think this is a psychological motivation by the people that are working there?
01:42:31.000So they arbitrarily get to decide how things go about, right?
01:42:34.000There's not like a very strict protocol that they must follow for tainted supplements or for this or for that.
01:42:40.000No, there is actually quite a bit of leverage or there is leeway in terms of how they can enforce and what they can enforce.
01:42:53.000There is some outlined elements of protocol, but there is no, it is always this or it is always that.
01:43:00.000And, you know, I didn't begrudge them for a period of ineligibility while you're going through the process of finding out whether this is contamination or what have you, doing any testing.
01:43:14.000If this guy supposedly has something in his system, well, let's figure out what it is.
01:43:19.000And once we have a better idea, then we can decide about whether you can go back into the pool or do this or do that or if you're going to lever any punishments.
01:43:52.000These are guys that they're paid by USADA to do their arbitration.
01:43:57.000Like they work for them in a way or they're not – they don't work under them directly, but they do get paid to be arbitrated somehow.
01:44:05.000There's something – Trevor Burrus So they get contracted by USADA. Yes.
01:44:09.000And so that was like, I don't necessarily feel the most comfortable with that, but I can also understand how it's not – there's probably not an easier way to go about it.
01:44:34.000I don't remember what the definitions were exactly, but it was like, you can't, you know, you have to keep it within this boundary and this realm and this.
01:44:43.000And I'm like, well, you can't fucking try to say, levy this against me and then use stuff from my past and then tell me I can't argue my full case.
01:44:51.000So they're limiting the amount that you could defend yourself?
01:45:30.000And then so we get to the point, it's like, well, fuck.
01:45:34.000Well, this doesn't even look like a very, you know, this might not even be a useful way of trying to approach this thing.
01:45:43.000And it got down to the wire to where...
01:45:46.000And we kept pushing it back and pushing it back and saying, can we get an extension to try and figure out how the hell do we approach this?
01:45:55.000And also, how could we approach it without having to spend money on having lawyers get involved?
01:46:00.000I mean, that's the last thing you want to do is get to litigation or even arbitration.
01:46:28.000And I guess we'll have to cross-bridge.
01:46:30.000So your position is that if you are accidentally taking a tainted supplement and also trace amounts that have absolutely zero effect on performance, there's nothing that you're doing by accidentally taking that that in any way would help you.
01:46:58.000And you don't need to say, oh, well, if it took seven months to get the information that you needed, the data, right, to then clarify, okay, well, you're not at fault, to then say, oh, we'll suspend you for six months, but since that six months has already passed, it's like we didn't suspend you at all.
01:48:00.000And someone from the arbitrator's office who we were dealing with calls us out of the blue and goes, so you still sure you don't want to do this?
01:48:10.000And my manager goes, well, they said that we have to limit the scope of argument to this and this and we can't talk.
01:48:46.000So is it possible that USADA's lawyers were trying to...
01:48:49.000Here's the thing I found about lawyers.
01:48:51.000Like, yeah, for sure they're necessary, and that's all well and good, and you need them.
01:48:55.000But there's a reality, and this is something that I had to deal with recently, in doing something with a friend.
01:49:01.000Through lawyers, where they attached a bunch of shit to this deal that wasn't supposed to be in there, and he didn't even know it was in there.
01:49:08.000And then my lawyer's like, what the fuck is this?
01:49:10.000And so I contact him, what the fuck is this?
01:49:19.000Lawyers, they literally say, we put this in to give you leverage.
01:49:24.000I don't think you necessarily want that, but we're looking out for your best interests, and so now you have a good negotiation point.
01:49:32.000If you just go in with what you want, then they're going to ask for more than that, and then you're not in a strong position because you can't ask for more after you've already established your initial position.
01:50:21.000Because at the very least, I thought maybe I could have some sort of record down of what we talked about, what was discussed, the arguments made.
01:50:29.000So in the end, no matter how it came out, I can go, here's what's legit.
01:50:34.000You can make your own decisions from there.
01:51:04.000Well, it's just taking a certain element and then trying to use slippery slope arguments and moving the goalposts on things.
01:51:10.000He's just doing anything he can to use rhetoric instead of logos at this point because they're lawyers and they're trying to make their case and trying to find impassioned responses.
01:51:20.000When you're saying this, consider that people are listening at home, don't really know your case, don't know the scope of what the argument was.
01:51:27.000So it's like trying to say that – find ways at which to move the goalposts in terms of – so like I said to you earlier, I keep batches of all the supplements that I take.
01:51:39.000Especially when I'm in this program and...
01:51:41.000And especially after dealing with the clusterfuck that was California.
01:51:45.000And it's like, well, I didn't have anything that I could bring to you that I could fuck.
01:51:50.000So I'm like, this is never happening again.
01:52:14.000Well, it's just simply, it's just they kept trying to say that I didn't do a good enough job.
01:52:18.000That, did you use the, did you see this thing on supplement 411?
01:52:24.000It's like, that came out After the fact, and yes, I have seen that.
01:52:29.000In fact, I use all the resources that you provided, your GloboDro, your other Supplement 411, to check against ingredient lists, supplement names, company names, to make sure none of this shit is on the list so that I don't make that mistake.
01:52:42.000So I use the resources that you give me.
01:52:45.000I keep batches of my supplements so they can be tested if need be.
01:52:48.000I do what's available to keep from any issues.
01:52:52.000And yet, they just kept moving the goalpost on that and trying to say that, well, but you didn't hire a psychic, you know?
01:53:19.000So USADA ultimately, even though they knew that you took a tainted supplement that had no effect whatsoever on your performance, they still wanted to punish you for two years.
01:53:48.000He said he'll complain about the amount of time that went by with USADA process, but he notified us of retirement right after the positive sample was collected, before positive was announced.
01:53:59.000So he was off in the wind for many months and not communicating with USADA. Big reason the case took so long to resolve.
01:54:08.000Two, his positive was from a tainted supplement, but he didn't do the number one thing.
01:54:12.000We advised UFC athletes on supplements.
01:54:16.000He didn't choose a supplement that was third-party certified as a banned substance-free like Onnit supplements are.
01:54:24.000There are literally hundreds of certified supplements out there and virtually ensures no issues for an athlete if they stick with those.
01:56:32.000And he said he couldn't see any way that I could have done hardly a better job, that I was meticulous with my record keeping, that I did essentially anything I could that was within the means of a normal person to do.
01:57:44.000Nowitzki is such a public face on this kind of thing, but when it comes to actually dealing with USADA, he's hands up.
01:57:52.000I mean, he'll come and he'll make sure to put something out there in any of the sphere, but in reality, he ain't got a fucking thing to do with any of it.
01:57:59.000Okay, but in his defense, he's a UFC employee, and it's inappropriate for him to have any influence whatsoever on the way they rule things.
01:58:07.000I think that's actually the proper thing for him to do.
01:58:21.000The president of Athletes Safety and Wellness.
01:58:25.000They're running the Performance Institute.
01:58:27.000I mean, what they're concentrating on now...
01:58:30.000I'm speaking for Jeff and his behalf that I think they're concentrating more on encouraging fighters to train and fortify their body with nutrition correctly and giving them education on how to do this and that Jeff is at the forefront of that stuff and showing them how to avoid accidentally taking something.
01:58:49.000I guess where I'm coming with this is that he is not...
01:58:52.000Fully in the loop with what happened between me and USADA, because he's not involved.
01:59:20.000Do you remember when Nick Diaz was being interviewed by all these people and there was that mean lady who works at the Nevada State Athletic Commission and she was grilling him and I'm like...
01:59:33.000We're talking about pot here, you crazy lady.
01:59:55.000John Jones is going through this right now.
01:59:57.000I don't know where John Jones stands, but it's been pretty well established that at the very least, if you look at the numbers when he was tested, And you know, I know a lot of people like to say that he's a cheater.
02:00:10.000There's a lot of this going on right now.
02:00:12.000Look, real clear, the first test was proven that he took tainted dick pills.
02:00:20.000Well, it was actually, so that got brought up to my attention as part of all this because, you know, USADA found it relevant.
02:00:27.000The difference between that first one, let's say, and I don't know about the second shit with John.
02:00:32.000I don't really follow close on this, but this came across my plate because He was taking a liquid Cialis, and it was from a company that sells SARMs and peptides and all that shit.
02:00:46.000So it was a company that also sells banned substances.
02:00:49.000And so their argument was that, dude, you're buying or using shit from a place full of illegal shit that you're not supposed to take.
02:01:20.000So this is indicative of someone who's not taking something to get a performance enhancing benefit from it, but rather someone who had something that was tainted.
02:01:28.000And these lab technicians are smart on this shit.
02:01:31.000Like the guy who saw the results from the first little batch of supplements we gave him, he had seen everything and then some under the sun and all different levels.
02:01:41.000And this guy knew What constituted contamination and what wasn't.
02:01:49.000Look, if you're taking trace amounts of anything, it's not going to do a damn thing to your body in terms of performance enhancing, but it is going to show up in these tests because these tests are incredibly thorough.
02:01:58.000Hey, Jamie, Google what's going on with John Jones' case, because particularly after this weekend, it's very, very relevant.
02:02:05.000You know, I mean, with Brock Lesnar getting in there, with DC, DC becoming the first light heavyweight to consecutively hold the light heavyweight championship and the heavyweight championship, you know, and a spectacular fight by DC, but Jon Jones is always going to be there.
02:02:21.000Sure, I mean, you cannot, you can go on and on about the extracurricular woes of Jon Jones, sure, but His capabilities as an athlete, his talent, it's undeniable.
02:02:59.000You know we said to them I'm not gonna take a punishment and they said we won't we're not giving you any option on this and so that's it's like there was a negotiation what happens what I want one of the things that I've talked about when it comes to police officers is that when you have police officers and you have people they're trying to arrest it becomes a game and I don't mean a game in terms of this bullshit I mean it's a game in terms of one person is trying to win and And they're trying to get people and arrest them.
02:03:24.000And this is why people plant guns and plant drugs.
02:03:28.000And that's what killed me was that, in my opinion, USADA was trying to win.
02:03:34.000It was more important for them to win than it was for us to have a clean sport.
02:03:38.000This comes back to what we were talking about earlier when it comes to arguments and discussions that people oftentimes are not really searching for the truth.
02:04:56.000Do it at the expense of the athletes in that we're in the administration of the testing that you're trying to blast them like these three Brazilian guys that just got busted over contamination that they traced back to a compounding pharmacy.
02:05:53.000Investigation identifies compounding pharmacies as a source of tainted supplements behind three positive tests into the UFC. Jim Dos Santos, Almeida, and Antonio Minotoro.
02:07:16.000Okay, right now he remains in a provisional suspension awaiting the outcome of the situation with USADA after testing positive for steroids last July following a knockout win over Cormier.
02:09:17.000The way it unfolded to me was just like, I don't need to be fighting multiple fronts when I'm just trying to do everything I can to stay in this as an athlete.
02:09:28.000Now, when you first started, I mean, you won the UFC heavyweight title in 2001?
02:16:44.000And yeah, with these kids that I work with, and they are pretty much kids, it's just about trying to help people achieve, you know, work towards the things that they want as an athlete, but also they're good people that I want to see them make the most out of their life.
02:17:00.000Yeah, so I'm trying to be a person that can be a positive influence in terms of Bringing philosophy and ethics to their life and helping them be good people and and to pass that kind of shit on Be the ripple in the water that the drop in the water that sends ripples out that makes a positive effect on other folks Are you a poet?
02:17:20.000Sometimes, man, it just fucking comes to me, man.
02:17:22.000You should put that on an Instagram picture and show your butt, because that's what a lot of those girls do.
02:17:27.000They show their butt, and then they have something about, you know, don't let negativity into your life, because the ripples of that negativity can affect the people around you, and you don't want that.
02:17:59.000At least the one in La Mirada has a whole little section that has AstroTurf down and all that with ladders that have been painted into it so you can do foot drills.
02:19:06.000I wouldn't want to do anything half-assed, and I also don't want to commit to something and then not be able to put into it what I think is necessary.
02:19:23.000Not just in terms of athletics, but the people that mentored me and helped to mold and shape me and help give me the tools and sometimes a kick in the ass as needed to move me along in life to get me to where I am today.
02:19:37.000To get me, not just in terms of what you would argue for as successful or not, but just to be the person that I am.
02:19:44.000And while far from perfect, I can't think about exchanging Bad moments for different moments in my life for the fear of that I wouldn't be who I am today.
02:19:59.000Nietzsche talks about eternal recurrence and one of the idea of that is that in your loneliest of lonelies of a demon showed up and it said you're going to live your life in every way as you ever have in every single aspect of it.
02:20:13.000It's like, well, you have to be okay with that.
02:20:16.000You have to live a life that's reasonable, that you would be fine with doing it all over again, doing it all over again.
02:20:24.000If you're going to be Sisyphus, you better push on a rock up a hill.
02:20:33.000And as long as it's not catastrophic to the point where you've caused a loss of life or someone's devastated and destroyed someone else's life.
02:20:46.000There's many concepts, but one of them is one of the most haunting for some people is that you will live your life over again exactly the same way until you get it right.
02:20:56.000I actually heard Elio Gracie talk about this once.
02:20:59.000That everything in your life, every mistake, every choice you make, if you do not do the correct thing, he believed that you would have to come back again and do it all over again exactly the same way.
02:21:08.000And this is his philosophy, the way he lived his life.
02:21:51.000Brenda and Eddie were the popular status and the king and the queen of the prom.
02:21:54.000Running around with the car top down and the radio on.
02:21:57.000Nobody looked any finer Or was more of a hit at the Parkway diner And we never knew we could walk more than that out of life Remember that?
02:22:56.000Even still, I couldn't, me personally, I couldn't think of, in terms of like, I want to do something as a mental idea, as a mind game, that if I live my life in a way that I could be okay with doing it all over again just exactly the same way.
02:23:23.000A philosopher who was saying that If you were given the ability to absolutely and utterly control your dreams in all aspects and elements of it, and so at first most people would go to sleep and they would turn it into every fucking wonderful thing they've ever wanted.
02:23:42.000They would just be the ultimate winner at everything all the time, always.
02:23:45.000And then they would get tired of that.
02:23:46.000And then they would create chaos and catastrophe and probably make everything as horrible for themselves as they could possibly do.
02:23:55.000And as they're going through these cycles, ultimately the one thing that you're gonna end up wanting in the end is that you just don't know what's gonna happen at all.
02:24:04.000By knowing everything prior to it occurring, it takes The want to experience it away.
02:24:13.000Cormac McCarthy wrote, how many people, if they knew the path of their lives, would still choose to live it?
02:24:24.000Well, isn't that ultimately expressed by fighting?
02:24:27.000Fighting is the ultimate expression of that, because when you step into that cage, if it's just you and you're looking across the ring at another guy who's a legitimate top-flight person, Mixed martial artist.
02:24:40.000I have a theory about fighting and that fighting is actually a, not the only, but a great conduit into what I think of as the highest point of being as a human being.
02:24:54.000That you can enter into this state that it's not a place that you can exist at all the time.
02:25:03.000But when you reach it, it's as if you are so alive and you're the peak of being at that moment.
02:25:14.000And even though it is brought on through being in the intensity and the stress of combat, it's as if every aspect of your being is charged and electric and living and being.
02:25:28.000But it's not a place you could be at all the time.
02:25:40.000Well, your senses have to be insanely heightened.
02:25:45.000The consequences of your actions are grave.
02:25:48.000The only thing that really is elevated past that is war.
02:25:51.000And one of the things that you find about war, and Sebastian Junger wrote about this in his book Tribe, is that the people that experience it have an incredibly difficult time adjusting to regular life.
02:26:42.000But when you've been there and you're just out here dealing with petty fucking internet trolls and dumb shit and people doing stuff that cut their nose and spite their face and undermining this and the fabric of our relationships for no good reason...
02:26:58.000It's tough to sit and exist in this and go, fuck, you know, how do you get back to that other thing, this state of purity, this existence of where none of those things matter anymore?
02:27:14.000I don't know if you can I mean you you might have I mean look we have a certain amount of time on this on this planet in this life, right?
02:27:22.000You have a hundred years if everything goes great you can't really expect to just live in that that perfect state of both chaos and and Chaos and I guess being in the moment there's there's something about something that's dangerous and intense and Overwhelmingly filled with anticipation
02:27:52.000beforehand and and that the preparation is all consuming There's very few things in life that are the like these big moments like a person stepping into a cage for a fight and The consequences are so grave.
02:28:09.000For your emotions, for your physical health, there's really nothing like it.
02:28:15.000To expect that you would find something else similar in life and to be able to achieve a similar state outside of that, I don't think you ever will because I feel like Part of what makes what you do and what all fighters do so intense and so incredibly enjoyable to watch is that we all know how much is on the line.
02:28:41.000I think, I believe I'm 100% in agreeance with you there, and I think race car drivers and fighter pilots, I think people like that also likely experience that state of being as well.
02:29:09.000Yeah, and then they wife swap because the idea was that they know that their life easily could be wiped out any day, at any time.
02:29:19.000And the people they care about the most, their wife or their girlfriend, that they want other people to love them because they might not be there.
02:29:28.000And that they would want the people they care about the most to love them.
02:29:31.000Because, yeah, they're thinking in an altruistic fashion of doing what they can, I suppose, to help this person that they care so much about continue to find joy in their life because of their realization that what joy they may be able to derive from them specifically is always on a thin line of not being there anymore.
02:30:08.000Which comes back to the one thing that is, I think, poison in life, which is to live a dull life.
02:30:16.000A boring, no risk-taking, no thrills, no challenge, no growth, no knowledge, no learning, just this stagnant, bullshit life that is so prevalent in our society.
02:30:30.000I think it's one of the main problems with our world.
02:30:33.000Is that we have set up these really safe cities and safe societies and cultures, which is wonderful.
02:30:41.000But also, we haven't given people the discipline or the structure or the framework for living a life that's going to satisfy your needs in terms of your biological needs, your psychological needs.
02:30:57.000Yes, and people start determining that Totally inane things are what their needs are.
02:31:04.000Well, it's because they're difficult to acquire, right?
02:31:06.000You think a Ferrari's going to make you happy because a Ferrari's hard to get.
02:32:43.000I need someone to know whether or not I'm smart or whether or not I know this or whether or not I can do that.
02:32:48.000It's like I'll do it when I need to do it and I have to try and look to see that I have my own inner peace is based on my own self-knowledge and knowledge also that I am lacking.
02:33:43.000That's a normal thing, and it's easy to fall into.
02:33:46.000But if you can be okay with, all right, if all I'm left with is just me and what I have, if I no longer have anything, no more luxuries, no more this, no more that, can you be okay with that?
02:34:00.000What kind of life would you make of this?
02:34:02.000And I like to think, the same one I have now.
02:34:05.000You can pick me up here, take all my shit away, throw me some other part of the world, a third world country, and it will be jarring.
02:34:49.000What the future holds is stressful, but it's also incredibly rewarding when things work out well.
02:34:55.000And even when they don't work out well, what's rewarding about that is you get the gift of knowing that you fucked up and you get the gift of the feeling of fucking up and the horrible, just the feeling of failure and to understand that that's fuel for you to regroup Repackage your fucking thoughts and now move forward with the knowledge of the mistakes that you've made and you're gonna be a better person for that.
02:35:21.000How can you fuck up if you don't do anything?
02:35:33.000I can really imagine that anyone can really be truly fulfilled living and Things are ultimately incredibly soft on us.
02:35:43.000I mean, we have pressures in other ways, but ultimately, most of us are living quite comfortable lives with no immediate dangers and no No real impetus to put stress on ourselves where it doesn't exist at times.
02:35:59.000Because let's just say you want to learn new language.
02:36:01.000That's agitation in terms of forcing you to have to endure something.
02:36:14.000Suffering doesn't have to be catastrophic.
02:36:16.000It doesn't have to be the sort of thing that Is going to debilitate you, but that suffering is needed for you to continue to become better.
02:36:26.000For sure, with everything, with exercise, with learning, with everything, with even relationships, learning in relationships.
02:36:33.000All those uncomfortable feelings are how you learn.
02:36:37.000I've always said to friends of mine, the first time they have a big blowout with something, they call me up.
02:36:44.000Oh, fuck, you know, so-and-so said this, and I don't know how their dick ended up there, and all this stuff.
02:36:50.000I'm just like, look, ultimately, yeah, no one wants to get into a row with someone, especially someone that you really care about, but If this is an important relationship, the only way it becomes a relationship that has that deeper, lasting meaning and that really has any real depth to it at all is what you do when you guys are faced with adversity.
02:37:09.000That shows you what relationship you have.
02:37:11.000Because when things are fun and easy, anybody can be a part of it.
02:37:15.000We're all just, you know, humping and drinking and going out and woo!
02:38:07.000It is the stresses of having to deal with a problem and how you handle that problem because there will never be any shortage of problems, of difficulties from great to small.
02:38:18.000And your way of mitigating those problems and dealing with them is so important.
02:38:27.000It determines how it works out for you.
02:38:41.000I especially would love to even at some point, like when you've got Brett in here and you've got Jordan and all that, just talk on philosophy.