The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #38 with Gaston Bolanos & Kirian Fitzgibbons

00:00:00.000 Four, three, two, one.

00:00:06.000 Yeah!

00:00:06.000 And we're live, gentlemen.

00:00:07.000 What's up?

00:00:08.000 What's up, boys?

00:00:08.000 Good to see you again.

00:00:09.000 What's happening?

00:00:10.000 Happy to be here, man.

00:00:11.000 Happy to have you here, man.

00:00:12.000 You are the only guy right now that I know of that is fighting at the highest level in three combat sports.

00:00:19.000 Correct.

00:00:20.000 MMA, Muay Thai, and kickboxing. 0.99

00:00:23.000 That's fucking crazy. 0.98

00:00:25.000 Thanks, man. 1.00

00:00:25.000 How do you keep your head together? 1.00

00:00:27.000 I don't know.

00:00:28.000 Last time warming up in Rome actually was the first time warming up for a kickboxing fight.

00:00:32.000 I threw a spinning back elbows. 1.00

00:00:33.000 I was like, I better not do that shit. 1.00

00:00:34.000 Yeah, spinning back elbows, no bueno in a kickbox. 1.00

00:00:37.000 You could do a spinning back fist though, right?

00:00:38.000 I did, which I landed two of them in my last fight.

00:00:41.000 Do you see what's happening lately where a lot of guys are hitting foreheads with their arms and snapping their arms?

00:00:47.000 Paige did it. 0.93

00:00:49.000 Obviously, who else did it recently?

00:00:51.000 Paul Felder did it.

00:00:52.000 A couple guys have done it.

00:00:54.000 They spin and you catch foreheads and that is not a good combination.

00:00:58.000 I feel like the kickboxing glove protects you a little bit more than the MMA glove probably does.

00:01:04.000 Yeah.

00:01:04.000 You know, 4-ounce, 10-ounce, there's a little bit of cushion there that might protect you a little more.

00:01:09.000 Yeah.

00:01:10.000 It's still, I don't know, it's still something that, you know, when I first started fighting kickboxing, he was like, I don't know, man, like, be careful with it, because I would, like, kind of catch, like, the middle of my arm.

00:01:20.000 Right.

00:01:20.000 You know, it's a little different than the spinning elbow, which is, in my opinion, a lot more safer to throw.

00:01:26.000 Now, what happens if you throw a spinning backfist in kickboxing and you really kind of catch them with the meat above the elbow?

00:01:32.000 It's illegal.

00:01:33.000 It's legal or ill?

00:01:34.000 No, it's illegal.

00:01:35.000 It's illegal.

00:01:35.000 But what about here?

00:01:37.000 No.

00:01:37.000 You have to, based on whether it's Glory or it's K1 or it's Bellator, it has to be with the back knuckle, back of the pad of the glove.

00:01:49.000 It can't be the side?

00:01:50.000 It cannot be a hammer fist.

00:01:51.000 That is illegal.

00:01:52.000 Ooh, that's weird.

00:01:52.000 You'll get a point deducted.

00:01:54.000 And if you cause more damage, then you might get DQ'd.

00:02:00.000 Yeah, when Sato knocked out Joe in that Bellator fight, if you watch it, it was a hammer fist.

00:02:04.000 And there was a lot of talk about whether it was legal or illegal, but it wasn't a back fist, it was a hammer fist.

00:02:09.000 Hmm.

00:02:10.000 Yeah.

00:02:11.000 Interesting.

00:02:11.000 Yeah, it's illegal per ISKA and most governing bodies.

00:02:15.000 So when you knocked out Joe Schilling?

00:02:16.000 In that kickboxing fight when they first fought.

00:02:18.000 So because they spun and because he landed with the back of the hand or the side of the hand, it's actually illegal?

00:02:25.000 It's considered a foul.

00:02:26.000 Did anybody bring it out?

00:02:28.000 They mentioned it, but I think at that time, Joe had come off of that Simon situation with Lion Fight, and he was like, move on.

00:02:36.000 I got knocked out.

00:02:37.000 It is what it is.

00:02:38.000 So he didn't make a big deal about it. 1.00

00:02:40.000 That dude hits fucking hard. 0.99

00:02:41.000 Yeah, absolutely. 1.00

00:02:43.000 Joe's so reckless.

00:02:45.000 He's so aggressive.

00:02:47.000 He has these moments of extreme emotion.

00:02:51.000 And that dude, he wanted to knock that dude out so bad.

00:02:54.000 After he got knocked out in the MMA fight, he wanted to knock him out in his rules.

00:03:00.000 And I think it's what you saw with Cody this weekend, too.

00:03:02.000 Yeah.

00:03:02.000 Too much emotion in one fight, you know?

00:03:04.000 Yeah, man.

00:03:05.000 We were talking about that and watching the replays.

00:03:08.000 You could see in his face that every shot he was trying to knock him out with.

00:03:12.000 As soon as I saw him walk...

00:03:13.000 I mean, not walk out.

00:03:15.000 He looked okay walking out.

00:03:16.000 As soon as the bell rang, I was like...

00:03:20.000 He just did it.

00:03:20.000 He looked a little stiff.

00:03:22.000 Yeah.

00:03:22.000 You know, and I was hoping, like, he would shake it off, get in the rhythm, like, land a couple jabs, just like, you know, we were working on when...

00:03:29.000 I sparred with him a couple times leading up to the TJ fight.

00:03:32.000 I go up to Alpha Male to do my wrestling and a lot of my grappling.

00:03:36.000 You know, they have so many 135, 145-pounders up there that, you know...

00:03:41.000 Only an hour halfway drive.

00:03:43.000 It only makes sense to go up there and exchange knowledge.

00:03:47.000 So as soon as I saw him walk out and start the fight, I was like, I hope he just shakes it off and gets into his groove.

00:03:54.000 When he fought Dom, that was artwork.

00:03:56.000 That was incredible.

00:03:58.000 He just let him come to him.

00:04:00.000 What was his game plan? 1.00

00:04:03.000 Knock his fucking ass out, bro. 1.00

00:04:05.000 No. 1.00

00:04:07.000 He wanted to use more wrestling from what we were talking to Danny and all those guys about.

00:04:11.000 He wanted to use more wrestling.

00:04:12.000 He threw a lot of kicks.

00:04:13.000 Yeah.

00:04:14.000 He wanted to kick a little bit as well, but he also wanted to just do the same thing to what he did to Dom.

00:04:20.000 Just kind of like piece him up.

00:04:22.000 I mean, considering the last fight, he almost finished him in the first round.

00:04:25.000 When they first fought, he was like, I can do this.

00:04:28.000 I can finish this guy.

00:04:29.000 Right.

00:04:29.000 Well, I think he could finish anybody.

00:04:31.000 Yeah, definitely.

00:04:32.000 But he's got to go about it the right way.

00:04:35.000 And I thought he was going about it the right way initially with the kicks.

00:04:39.000 And I was like, look, even if these are just landing on the arms, these are going to soften TJ up.

00:04:44.000 These are brutal.

00:04:44.000 He was throwing some brutal kicks.

00:04:46.000 And it was a totally different thing.

00:04:48.000 He was adding a whole different aspect to the fight than he did in the first fight.

00:04:52.000 And it wasn't...

00:04:57.000 When he started throwing the kicks, I was like, yeah, there's the game plan.

00:05:00.000 I see what's going on.

00:05:01.000 Beautiful.

00:05:01.000 And then when he pointed to the ground and he was like, yeah, see, you couldn't touch me.

00:05:04.000 I'm like, oh, he's starting to get in his rhythm.

00:05:06.000 But that's what I hate about immediate rematches after a knockout.

00:05:10.000 It's just, it's still in your head.

00:05:12.000 It's just the confidence level, the anger, the emotion.

00:05:16.000 Like, you know, Henry, two, three years between his fight with DJ where he got, you know, finished in the first round.

00:05:22.000 More fights, fighting some other people.

00:05:25.000 He was a different human this time around.

00:05:27.000 Absolutely.

00:05:27.000 But if he had fought DJ the very next fight, who knows how that goes?

00:05:32.000 Right.

00:05:33.000 But that would be hard to sell, right?

00:05:36.000 Unless Henry was the champion and DJ took the crown from him.

00:05:39.000 This was the whole idea was that, you know, Cody had beat Dom, Cody was the champ, and that Cody was defending the honor of Alpha Male, and TJ was this...

00:05:50.000 Snake in the grass, they were going to put away.

00:05:52.000 That was the whole idea behind the Ultimate Fighter.

00:05:56.000 I don't think there's ever been a fight, other than maybe Ronda and Misha, that had more emotion.

00:06:02.000 Bad blood behind it.

00:06:04.000 The Ronda and the Misha thing might have been worse. 0.99

00:06:06.000 People don't remember how hated Ronda was after that Misha fight. 0.98

00:06:10.000 She wouldn't shake Misha's hand. 1.00

00:06:12.000 Misha tried to shake her hand and Ronda was like, bitch! 1.00

00:06:14.000 Get out of here. 0.99

00:06:15.000 I just walked away from her, and everybody was like, whoa.

00:06:18.000 And while I was interviewing her, it was just a boo.

00:06:21.000 The whole audience was booing.

00:06:23.000 Those emotional fights, they're so compelling to watch, but man, they're so fraught with peril for the fighters.

00:06:30.000 Absolutely.

00:06:31.000 If you look at his face, this kid has 50 fights.

00:06:34.000 He has 50 fights.

00:06:35.000 Amateur, Muay Thai, MMA, kickboxing, back to a junior.

00:06:39.000 The only scars you're going to see on his face are from a fight where he fought Damien Early, whose brother had...

00:06:46.000 That was a lion fight.

00:06:47.000 I saw that fight.

00:06:48.000 Yeah.

00:06:48.000 I was very angry.

00:06:49.000 He was very angry.

00:06:50.000 I wanted to put him away.

00:06:52.000 Why?

00:06:52.000 I dropped him, what, twice?

00:06:53.000 Once?

00:06:54.000 Because Gaston was a rising star in Lion Fight at the time, and the family, the Earlys, the Chastains, and everything's cool now, but at the time...

00:07:04.000 The parents were very aggressive online towards Gaston.

00:07:08.000 His parents were?

00:07:09.000 Yeah.

00:07:10.000 They won't fight.

00:07:12.000 Gaston won't fight our boy.

00:07:14.000 Well, one, you're not even in his weight class.

00:07:16.000 And then they said, oh, we can make the weight.

00:07:18.000 So, okay, if you make the weight, we'll take the fight.

00:07:20.000 And they made the weight, but it was the one, and I've said it since.

00:07:23.000 Well, it was the Eddie thing, too.

00:07:25.000 Yeah, Eddie.

00:07:26.000 Eddie who?

00:07:27.000 Eddie Abasolo, one of my teammates.

00:07:29.000 Oh, okay.

00:07:29.000 We've been training together for, what, like five years now?

00:07:31.000 Yeah.

00:07:32.000 And what was the problem with them?

00:07:33.000 They fought.

00:07:34.000 Damien and Eddie fought 155 pounds, which is what Eddie...

00:07:38.000 They both fought it that way.

00:07:39.000 He wanted to come down to fight me.

00:07:41.000 But Eddie landed an illegal elbow in the back of the neck. 0.90

00:07:45.000 It didn't seem like it was that hard, but it's... 0.96

00:07:48.000 It ended the fight, and Eddie got DQ'd, and then they were just talking mad shit, saying, oh, you know, you did that on purpose. 0.58

00:07:56.000 And, like, Eddie, if you meet Eddie, you'll be like, he's the coolest guy ever. 0.91

00:07:59.000 He's a smooth fighter, man.

00:08:01.000 Silky Smooth, that's his nickname.

00:08:03.000 Silky Smooth.

00:08:04.000 Amazing.

00:08:05.000 Yeah, he seems so chill in there, and just really knows how to pace himself and just extend his energy perfectly.

00:08:14.000 I mean, really interesting fighter to watch.

00:08:16.000 He's my favorite people.

00:08:18.000 To work with.

00:08:19.000 To train with?

00:08:21.000 Yeah.

00:08:22.000 He's such an amazing human being.

00:08:25.000 And the best part is that Gaston hated him.

00:08:28.000 I hated Eddie.

00:08:29.000 Why?

00:08:30.000 I hated Eddie.

00:08:30.000 Was it the braids?

00:08:33.000 No, it was his pre-braids, Eddie.

00:08:37.000 Yeah, so growing up as an amateur, Eddie started, what, like two years after I did?

00:08:43.000 Yeah, about two years after I did.

00:08:45.000 I'll always shake his hand when I saw him, but the camp that he was from, his coach hated me.

00:08:51.000 Did not like me at all.

00:08:54.000 And so Gaston was fighting in San Francisco, and it was the first time that Gaston ever got knocked out.

00:09:01.000 And he got knocked out.

00:09:02.000 And Gaston at the time, locally in the Bay Area, he was the guy.

00:09:07.000 The amateur kid, he's a star, everybody loves him.

00:09:10.000 18 years old, beating everybody, fighting anybody in any weight class from 137 to 150. I'll fight anybody.

00:09:19.000 I didn't care.

00:09:19.000 I was just trying to get the experience.

00:09:21.000 The first two years of my junior career, no, so the first year I fought as a junior, I beat pretty much everybody my age.

00:09:29.000 And back then the rules were like, if you're under 16, you can't, if you're under 18, you're a junior.

00:09:35.000 You're going to get me in trouble, man.

00:09:37.000 So we just faked my birth certificate.

00:09:41.000 That happens so often.

00:09:43.000 So I was 18 two years before that I was 18. I had him fight adults early.

00:09:49.000 Why do people do that?

00:09:51.000 Nobody would fight him.

00:09:52.000 He couldn't fight.

00:09:53.000 He'd beat everybody junior.

00:09:56.000 So we said okay.

00:09:58.000 So we made him 18 and he fought.

00:10:00.000 And he got knocked out.

00:10:01.000 He cut too much weight for a fight.

00:10:03.000 You go as you learn.

00:10:04.000 He cut down to 37. And it was a little too much.

00:10:07.000 And what was your walk-around weight?

00:10:08.000 Well, the thing is, I was planning on fighting.

00:10:10.000 So what was the camp that we were fighting?

00:10:12.000 Maisha?

00:10:12.000 Yeah, Maisha.

00:10:13.000 So we were supposed to fight at 142, which I was fine with.

00:10:17.000 And at the time, I probably could have made 135, but the week of is like, hey, your opponent dropped out.

00:10:22.000 His teammate will fight you, but he'll fight you at 137. Five extra pounds is a lot.

00:10:31.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:10:32.000 I was walking around 149, going another 12 pounds.

00:10:35.000 At that age, I was 18. I didn't do it right.

00:10:40.000 It just didn't work out for me.

00:10:41.000 So he got caught.

00:10:43.000 I was winning the fight.

00:10:44.000 Absolutely.

00:10:45.000 He was winning the fight, destroying...

00:10:46.000 And again, this guy, I think he works at Walmart now. 0.95

00:10:49.000 That's not a bullshit. 0.56

00:10:50.000 This is a great kid. 0.98

00:10:51.000 Power right hand.

00:10:52.000 No disrespect to Walmart.

00:10:53.000 No disrespect.

00:10:55.000 But he got caught and in between rounds I could see it was like a deer in headlight.

00:10:59.000 Gaston was on autopilot.

00:11:01.000 He was winning but he wasn't there.

00:11:02.000 So he gets caught, he gets dropped and literally Eddie's camp was just swarmed the ring screaming and yelling Gaston's And I remember clearly seeing Eddie in that guy's corner, like, you know, just like, yeah!

00:11:18.000 And like, he was just part of the camp, doing what all his friends were doing.

00:11:23.000 And since then, I was like, I hate that guy.

00:11:26.000 I do not like him.

00:11:27.000 We all hated the camp.

00:11:29.000 We all hated Eddie.

00:11:30.000 And then one of my teammates fought Eddie.

00:11:34.000 Same thing.

00:11:35.000 But he fought Brooks.

00:11:36.000 He fought Brooks.

00:11:37.000 Cut him right on top of the head. 0.72

00:11:39.000 Brooks, he had to have staples and everything. 0.73

00:11:42.000 And same thing. 1.00

00:11:43.000 They were just treating us like they were the shit. 1.00

00:11:45.000 And I was like, fuck these guys, man. 1.00

00:11:47.000 Emotions involved in camps. 1.00

00:11:49.000 I mean, it's...

00:11:51.000 It's such a wasted thing.

00:11:53.000 It's definitely bad for the fighters because it creates this added element.

00:11:58.000 Fighting is hard enough, as it is, but when you add all this hate and disdain, the only thing you could potentially do is if you don't have a good work ethic, which obviously you do, it'll get you up.

00:12:10.000 Do you remember when Buster Douglas fought Mike Tyson?

00:12:14.000 Buster Douglas was a 42-to-1 underdog, but everybody knew Buster had talent.

00:12:18.000 But he was like a lazy guy.

00:12:20.000 Then his mom died.

00:12:21.000 And when his mom died, he just made a decision. 1.00

00:12:25.000 He was like, fuck this. 1.00

00:12:27.000 He was hurting, he was in pain, and he's like, I'm going to train like a wild animal for this fight. 0.99

00:12:32.000 I'm going to train like I've never trained before.

00:12:34.000 I'm going to train like a real world champion.

00:12:36.000 And he came out there jabbing and hooking off the jab. 0.99

00:12:39.000 And everybody's like, what the fuck is going on? 1.00

00:12:42.000 The combination that he knocked Tyson out with was like, holy shit! 1.00

00:12:47.000 Never achieved those heights again. 0.97

00:12:48.000 The only fight I've ever bet on in my entire life was that fight.

00:12:51.000 Did you bet on Tyson?

00:12:52.000 Yeah.

00:12:54.000 But 500 to win the 50 bucks.

00:12:57.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:12:58.000 It's 50 free dollars.

00:13:00.000 Yeah.

00:13:01.000 Crazy.

00:13:01.000 But emotions are never good.

00:13:03.000 I mean, that's like a rare time where emotions were good because it got a lazy guy to the gym to train like a real professional.

00:13:10.000 And the thing with Eddie is that, without question, Eddie is the glue that holds our team together.

00:13:15.000 He is the best thing that ever happened to our gym.

00:13:18.000 That's crazy.

00:13:19.000 His ego is just like...

00:13:22.000 He'll just do whatever.

00:13:23.000 He's like, hey, you want to work?

00:13:24.000 You want to do this?

00:13:25.000 What do you want to do?

00:13:26.000 There's no like...

00:13:27.000 We're both alpha males at CSA. He's like, hey, what do you want to do, man?

00:13:33.000 You want to run?

00:13:33.000 Those are the guys that grow, man.

00:13:35.000 The guys that grow are the guys that can just chill.

00:13:38.000 And help people grow.

00:13:39.000 He's helped our team grow so much.

00:13:41.000 And when Eddie came to me, basically, literally, same thing happened with Gaston, because Gaston was a little prick when I met him, too.

00:13:48.000 Yeah.

00:13:49.000 But Eddie, and he'll admit it, he was like, you know, he was just around the wrong people.

00:13:53.000 I watched him fight in his last amateur fight, and I hated him, and I was rooting for him to lose.

00:13:58.000 I was literally sitting in the back being a hater, going, ah, this is awesome.

00:14:02.000 And he started losing a fight.

00:14:03.000 He blew his knee out, and he started losing.

00:14:05.000 And while the fight was happening, I started rooting for him.

00:14:08.000 And I hated him.

00:14:09.000 But his heart and his spirit was the first I ever saw.

00:14:12.000 One of the most talented kids I ever saw.

00:14:13.000 He blew his knee out, blew his ACL, kept fighting through the whole fight.

00:14:17.000 It was one of the most impressive performances I've ever seen.

00:14:20.000 After the fight, I went back into the locker room.

00:14:22.000 He was by himself, crying.

00:14:24.000 His coach wasn't there.

00:14:25.000 His team has left him.

00:14:26.000 His team left him.

00:14:26.000 Because he was undefeated.

00:14:28.000 World champion.

00:14:29.000 World champion.

00:14:30.000 Amateur world champion.

00:14:31.000 He had racked up a ton of fights.

00:14:34.000 And his team was behind him because he was winning.

00:14:37.000 But then he loses against the guy that he had beaten before.

00:14:41.000 And then his team was gone.

00:14:42.000 And I went back and I told him, I said, listen, this probably doesn't mean much to you.

00:14:46.000 I said, but I want to tell you that I am more impressed with you in losing this fight and what I saw from you Then in any time else that you showboated, you won, you destroyed people, the heart you displayed, you are one of the best fighters I've ever seen in my life.

00:15:00.000 Three months later, he hit me up, brought ice cream, came to CSA, and he said, hey, can I train here?

00:15:05.000 Brought ice cream?

00:15:06.000 Brought ice cream. 1.00

00:15:07.000 I saw him walk in with his fucking ice cream, and I was like... 1.00

00:15:10.000 What is going on right now? 1.00

00:15:12.000 Gaston?

00:15:13.000 Why is he here?

00:15:14.000 Gaston came to me.

00:15:15.000 No.

00:15:15.000 He did.

00:15:16.000 No.

00:15:17.000 And he said, if Eddie trains here, I'm leaving.

00:15:20.000 He said, I'm gone.

00:15:21.000 How long did it take you to warm up to him?

00:15:24.000 We spar once and Kieran had a real talk with me.

00:15:28.000 He's like, listen man, I'm the head coach here and I'm your dad.

00:15:34.000 Relax, I know what I'm doing.

00:15:35.000 When have I failed you?

00:15:37.000 I'm telling you.

00:15:38.000 If he's who we think he is or we thought he was, I'll know and he'll leave.

00:15:46.000 But you gotta give him the opportunity.

00:15:49.000 And when he's saying that, he's telling the truth.

00:15:50.000 I was his legal guardian at the time.

00:15:51.000 When he threatened to leave, the first question out of my mouth was, are you going to leave the gym or are you going to leave my house because you live there too?

00:15:58.000 He was living with me.

00:15:59.000 I said, so it's going to be weird if you're training somewhere else.

00:16:02.000 How old were you then?

00:16:03.000 15?

00:16:04.000 I became his legal guardian.

00:16:06.000 When Eddie came, I was maybe 18. No, about 18. His parents moved back to Peru and I became his legal guardian so he could finish school here in the U.S. and he came to live with me.

00:16:17.000 And I put him into college and all that.

00:16:21.000 Yeah, a year before that.

00:16:22.000 That's a tight relationship.

00:16:23.000 A year before that, I was commuting.

00:16:25.000 So I was training at Fairtex Mountain View at the time.

00:16:31.000 And I was coaching there.

00:16:32.000 And he was coaching there every couple of days.

00:16:34.000 And then 2008 happened, South Korea, IFMA. He was the coach for the U.S. National Muay Thai team.

00:16:43.000 And we just clicked.

00:16:47.000 When I met him at Fairtex, I was teaching.

00:16:51.000 I was hitting a heavy bag.

00:16:52.000 He came walking up to me.

00:16:53.000 He's 14, 15. He's got his picture on the front window at Fairtex Mountain View.

00:16:58.000 Because he's a good-looking kid.

00:16:59.000 He was a surfer and modeling and all that.

00:17:02.000 So he walks up and he rolls up his shorts next to me and goes, who are you, man?

00:17:06.000 And I'm like, oh, I'm carrying him.

00:17:08.000 He goes, oh, okay.

00:17:09.000 He goes, what do you do here?

00:17:10.000 I was like, I teach.

00:17:11.000 He goes, I never see you here before.

00:17:12.000 Jong Sanon's my coach.

00:17:14.000 He starts kicking the bag.

00:17:15.000 Kicking the bag.

00:17:16.000 I'm like, oh, okay, cool.

00:17:17.000 All right, good to know.

00:17:18.000 So then Jong Sanon couldn't coach the national team in 2008 in Korea.

00:17:23.000 So as a Fairtex coach, they asked me if I wanted to go.

00:17:26.000 I said, yeah.

00:17:26.000 So I get onto the plane on my way to Korea for the World Championships, and I see this little...

00:17:30.000 At the connection, right?

00:17:31.000 At the connection, I was like, why is he here? 1.00

00:17:35.000 And I see this little fuck, and I'm like, oh, God, I hate this kid. 1.00

00:17:39.000 I couldn't stand him. 1.00

00:17:41.000 And so we get there, and I'm like, he's going to get murdered, and I'm happy.

00:17:44.000 I'm glad.

00:17:45.000 He's going to learn a lesson.

00:17:46.000 He's a valuable lesson.

00:17:47.000 I didn't cut away at the time.

00:17:48.000 And I was fighting the returning two-time gold medalist at IFMA on my first ever.

00:17:55.000 That was my first.

00:17:55.000 Grown-ass man.

00:17:56.000 He made his amateur debut at the World Championships against the returning champion. 0.84

00:18:01.000 Who was like Uzbekistanian kid, like really, really good.

00:18:07.000 Probably 80 fights.

00:18:08.000 He was 17 about to make the jump into A-class the next year.

00:18:14.000 So I'm literally... 0.98

00:18:15.000 I'm writing out his parents' name and phone number so I can call them after this kid kills him.

00:18:20.000 This is your amateur debut?

00:18:21.000 Pretty much, yeah.

00:18:22.000 Your amateur debut is against an amateur world champion?

00:18:25.000 Yeah.

00:18:25.000 At the world championships.

00:18:26.000 That seems so ridiculous. 0.95

00:18:28.000 Yeah, it was crazy. 0.98

00:18:29.000 How do they have that set up?

00:18:31.000 I didn't even know.

00:18:32.000 I didn't even know because I was just going...

00:18:34.000 I was like, I'm just going to... 0.99

00:18:35.000 In my mind, I was going to go in there and fuck this kid up even though he was way taller than me. 0.99

00:18:40.000 I wasn't cutting weight at the time. 1.00

00:18:41.000 These guys cut weight.

00:18:42.000 They take...

00:18:44.000 All those countries, the Eastern Bloc, they take it very seriously because if you get a gold medal there, you're pretty much set for life.

00:18:51.000 Yeah, Muay Thai is huge internationally.

00:18:52.000 Most people don't understand it.

00:18:54.000 At that time, 2008, 2009, it's kind of the dark era of international Muay Thai here in America.

00:18:59.000 The United States Muay Thai Federation, which is kind of like the Olympic, the U.S. Olympic Committee, because it's not an Olympic sport yet.

00:19:05.000 It was literally, who can afford to go?

00:19:07.000 There's no government funding.

00:19:09.000 There was no selection process.

00:19:12.000 And literally, we had a team of six people.

00:19:15.000 Thailand's got 40. Russia's got 50 people.

00:19:18.000 We went there with six people.

00:19:21.000 Anthony Lynn, who was the president of Fairtex USA, was the founder of USMF. He was the poster boy at Fairtex just as a kid.

00:19:29.000 He didn't have any fights yet.

00:19:30.000 He was just a good-looking kid that kicked really well.

00:19:32.000 I said, we'll take him over there.

00:19:33.000 It'll be a good experience for him. 1.00

00:19:34.000 The whole time, I'm like, this kid's going to get fucking murdered. 0.99

00:19:37.000 No way. 0.99

00:19:38.000 I mean, I had no idea what I was walking into.

00:19:40.000 I had a few smokers.

00:19:41.000 How did it go?

00:19:42.000 He goes out.

00:19:44.000 I wanted him to tell me.

00:19:46.000 I go out there. 1.00

00:19:47.000 I just like get hit and I was like, holy shit, this guy hits like a man. 0.99

00:19:51.000 He hits really hard, but I just didn't care. 0.99

00:19:54.000 I just went in there and I gave it all I had.

00:19:57.000 I really did.

00:19:59.000 I was really disappointed in my performance because I really truly believed I was going to win the fight.

00:20:04.000 I went in there to win, even though I had not much experience.

00:20:07.000 I didn't have 80 fights like this guy did.

00:20:10.000 I had zero.

00:20:11.000 I had maybe a couple of smokers, two amateur fights when I was like 12 and 13. But that's about it.

00:20:17.000 In one boxing fight.

00:20:18.000 But that was it.

00:20:19.000 This guy had 80. And a lot of them were probably professional fights, too.

00:20:23.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:20:24.000 100%.

00:20:24.000 There's no such thing as amateur Muay Thai in Europe.

00:20:28.000 I mean, yeah, they consider it B-class, but they still fight without shin guards.

00:20:32.000 They still do all this.

00:20:33.000 And when they go in there, they're going in there to win.

00:20:37.000 I knew I lost a fight, but I lost a split decision.

00:20:41.000 Which was crazy.

00:20:43.000 Crazy to go in there.

00:20:46.000 I mean, I knew something was up when I saw my matchup was announced.

00:20:51.000 And this guy, he didn't have his full name.

00:20:53.000 They only had his first name.

00:20:55.000 I was like, they know this guy.

00:20:57.000 I was like, Gaston Boulogne's against, what was it, Oybek or something like that. 0.83

00:21:02.000 And so, whatever happened to him?

00:21:06.000 I think we saw him the next year.

00:21:08.000 The next year he went into like adult class.

00:21:10.000 So there's B class and there's A class.

00:21:12.000 A class is where most of the pros go.

00:21:14.000 He went straight into A class after fighting me.

00:21:17.000 His coach beat the shit out of him after winning a split decision against me. 0.95

00:21:22.000 Just beat him in front of you guys? 0.98

00:21:25.000 In front of us.

00:21:26.000 In the locker room.

00:21:26.000 What do you mean?

00:21:28.000 because he heard i was that was only like my third fight or like my amateur debut right he was like and you know americans were in the really so he beat him in front of you like how so beat like just slapped the out of him like one of the worst things i've ever seen yeah yeah it's very very different over there and in the fight the crowd got behind gaston because he was doing very dynamic things he was and that was really small too i was only like what five five five four at the time this guy was like five eleven And in between rounds,

00:21:57.000 my light switch went off with him because literally I go in between rounds and I go, look over there.

00:22:01.000 I said, look, this is the previous world champion.

00:22:04.000 I said, you are going toe-to-toe with him.

00:22:06.000 I said, he is tired.

00:22:07.000 And he looks up at me.

00:22:09.000 Gaston goes, I'm not tired.

00:22:10.000 Americans don't get tired.

00:22:11.000 I'm like, number one, calm down.

00:22:13.000 You're Peruvian. 0.94

00:22:14.000 Okay, take it easy.

00:22:16.000 Number two, you're the cutest thing ever.

00:22:17.000 I love you to death.

00:22:19.000 And from that moment on, this kid has literally been my son.

00:22:24.000 And what sealed it for me is while we were backstage, this kid was getting beat within an inch of his life by his coach.

00:22:32.000 Gaston takes off his jersey, walks over and interrupts the beating and gives his jersey because that's kind of customary to exchange jerseys.

00:22:39.000 You interrupted the beating?

00:22:41.000 Yeah.

00:22:41.000 How long was his beating going on for?

00:22:43.000 So they walked off.

00:22:46.000 His team had kind of left him too. 0.99

00:22:48.000 His coaches walked him back and just started slapping the shit out of him. 0.99

00:22:52.000 And then I stopped and I was like... 0.99

00:22:54.000 How long was he slapping him for?

00:22:56.000 Well, like the walk back was like, what, like 10 minutes?

00:22:59.000 Yeah.

00:22:59.000 And just like yelling...

00:23:00.000 Smacking him for 10 minutes.

00:23:01.000 Just berating him.

00:23:02.000 Yeah.

00:23:03.000 Yeah, it's bad. 0.99

00:23:04.000 Everybody was like, oh shit, what's going on over there? 0.99

00:23:06.000 Yeah, that's not the best way to motivate someone. 0.98

00:23:09.000 Definitely not.

00:23:10.000 He won the whole tournament.

00:23:13.000 He won?

00:23:13.000 Yeah.

00:23:14.000 I was probably his toughest fight, though.

00:23:16.000 Yeah.

00:23:19.000 Man...

00:23:20.000 Yeah, the crazy thing about that is, you know, in America, people don't even understand that Muay Thai could be that big somewhere else, that it could be that important to people.

00:23:35.000 Muay Thai is a mystery to me, in the sense that I just don't understand why it never caught on.

00:23:40.000 I really don't get it.

00:23:41.000 I think part of it's the music, part of it's the ritual, part of it is just the way MMA blew up.

00:23:49.000 Did they go through all the Y crew and everything in Europe?

00:23:54.000 If it's Muay Thai, yeah.

00:23:55.000 If it's kickboxing, no.

00:23:57.000 But if it's Muay Thai, yeah.

00:23:58.000 But he was the first, literally, he was the first junior that the U.S. ever sent to the World Championships.

00:24:04.000 Ever.

00:24:04.000 He was by himself, and he was the only junior ever.

00:24:07.000 Today, there are 16 juniors fighting in Thailand at the Junior World Championships.

00:24:12.000 They went 8-0 today.

00:24:15.000 So there's some momentum.

00:24:17.000 Huge momentum right now.

00:24:18.000 But not in the public.

00:24:19.000 So it's in the fighters themselves.

00:24:22.000 Yes, it's not publicly known, but right now the best junior team at the Junior World Championships is the United States of America.

00:24:29.000 Have you thought about that, though?

00:24:30.000 Why is that?

00:24:31.000 How come no one can figure out a way to make it exciting or put it on television and let people know, like, hey, this is probably one of the most dynamic combat sports in the world next to MMA? A lot of it has to do with money.

00:24:51.000 Promoters will come in and they will be the next best thing.

00:24:55.000 Lion Fight got it right the most and then they lost the AXS TV deal.

00:25:01.000 What happened with them?

00:25:03.000 If you ask Lion Fight, they lost the deal because AXS TV wanted too much commitment.

00:25:09.000 If you ask AXS TV, Lion Fight was canceling too many shows.

00:25:12.000 It depends on who you ask. 0.97

00:25:14.000 So now what are they on, like ESPN3 or some shit? 0.99

00:25:17.000 No. 0.98

00:25:17.000 Flow Elite Combat. 0.98

00:25:19.000 Stream.

00:25:20.000 Nobody knows about it.

00:25:22.000 Yeah, which is a shame.

00:25:23.000 It was hard to get people to watch it on AXS TV. I mean, AXS TV is a fairly fringe cable channel.

00:25:29.000 Absolutely.

00:25:31.000 It's, again, much like MMA. I mean, it was the right place, right time, right recipe, ultimate fighter on the right night, and great fight at the end, and all of a sudden everybody's talking about it.

00:25:39.000 You know the story better than anybody.

00:25:41.000 That hasn't happened for Muay Thai yet, and it's a shame.

00:25:44.000 And I've been around it now.

00:25:46.000 Coach Miriam, Kevin, you know, these guys have carried Muay Thai on their shoulder for years.

00:25:51.000 Nobody knew who it was.

00:25:52.000 How does Bellator's kickboxing ratings do?

00:25:56.000 Honestly, I mean, it does as well as maybe a two-year-old rerun of Cops does, unfortunately.

00:26:04.000 Yeah.

00:26:05.000 You know, it does better than Glory did.

00:26:08.000 Well, that's weird, right?

00:26:10.000 Yeah.

00:26:10.000 Why does it do better than Glory?

00:26:12.000 I think just because it ties to the Bellator name.

00:26:15.000 Bellator name, yeah.

00:26:15.000 So, Joe Schilling has decided no more kickboxing.

00:26:19.000 He's no more Muay Thai, no more kickboxing.

00:26:21.000 Is he only doing that right now?

00:26:22.000 Yeah.

00:26:23.000 He's doing it for financial reasons.

00:26:25.000 I mean, he's in his 30s.

00:26:26.000 I think you probably realize how many years he has left.

00:26:29.000 Five, six years left.

00:26:31.000 Maybe if everything goes great, nothing gets blown out.

00:26:34.000 And he's just decided...

00:26:37.000 You know, that bothers me.

00:26:39.000 Me too.

00:26:40.000 It's a labor of love for Scott Coker.

00:26:41.000 Literally, he's convinced Paramount to keep it going because they believe in him.

00:26:46.000 He's doing it.

00:26:47.000 Because he started off with kickboxing.

00:26:49.000 Exactly, because he started out with Strikeforce.

00:26:51.000 Strikeforce was originally kickboxing, K1. It just bothers me.

00:26:56.000 I just don't get it.

00:26:57.000 I'm a big fan of boxing.

00:27:00.000 I love boxing.

00:27:01.000 But it's not as fun.

00:27:04.000 Muay Thai is more fun to watch.

00:27:06.000 It's more exciting and I used to love watching Lion Fight.

00:27:09.000 I was so happy when it was on.

00:27:10.000 I have all of them recorded on my DVR. Now, good luck trying to find Muay Thai on TV. Yeah, it's tough.

00:27:18.000 I mean, not to toot our horn, but I mean, when it comes to Muay Thai, we're the biggest gym in North America.

00:27:26.000 And we have the most active fighters.

00:27:28.000 And it's hard to get my people where they need to be.

00:27:32.000 There are other shows, Step Up.

00:27:33.000 You know, Triumphant is on Fight Pass.

00:27:36.000 That's a great show.

00:27:37.000 Friday Night Fights is trying.

00:27:38.000 Lion Fight is still around.

00:27:39.000 You know, I'll always support Lion Fight for, you know, hell, we helped build that brand to the best as we could.

00:27:46.000 But right now, regionally, Dennis Warner in SoCal is always going to have shows.

00:27:52.000 Triumphant's good.

00:27:53.000 Friday Night Fights is good.

00:27:55.000 Glory, you know, they're not really behind American talent yet.

00:27:59.000 They're just not.

00:28:00.000 Well, the problem is they do a lot of shows in Europe, and these European fighters are extremely popular over there.

00:28:05.000 Absolutely.

00:28:06.000 I mean, if they had their druthers, they would do Badr Hari every weekend.

00:28:09.000 Absolutely.

00:28:10.000 I mean, that's what they would do.

00:28:11.000 I mean, that guy sells out arenas.

00:28:13.000 Oh, my God.

00:28:13.000 It's kind of crazy.

00:28:15.000 That guy is scary. 0.99

00:28:16.000 He's so crazy. 0.99

00:28:17.000 Jesus Christ. 0.98

00:28:18.000 We were just playing a video the other day of slapping some hotel desk person who walked behind the desk and smacked this guy in the face.

00:28:28.000 He gets arrested for breaking a guy's shin, stomping a guy's shin in half. 0.98

00:28:33.000 He's so crazy. 0.94

00:28:35.000 Yeah, I mean, he's like a very odd combination of a lethal fighter and a thug. 0.99

00:28:40.000 Yeah, he's both for sure.

00:28:42.000 Yeah, both for sure.

00:28:44.000 And he wants you to know.

00:28:45.000 What mood is he in today?

00:28:48.000 Well, you know, he's the most compelling story right now in European kickboxing, for sure.

00:28:55.000 Oh, without question.

00:28:56.000 They announced Collision 2 and they didn't even put his image up and all of a sudden people are excited just because of him and Rico's first fight.

00:29:02.000 Are they supposed to fight again?

00:29:03.000 Is that what's going to happen?

00:29:04.000 Rico Verhoeven and him?

00:29:05.000 I think that's the plan.

00:29:06.000 That's where they're going.

00:29:07.000 Now, he broke his arm in that first fight.

00:29:08.000 Did they know how?

00:29:09.000 Was that a pre-existing injury, or was it just something that happened in the middle of a scramble?

00:29:13.000 It looked to me blocking a kick, is what it looked like to me.

00:29:17.000 And again, if you block a kick with one, the ulna's not going to take that.

00:29:20.000 It's just not going to.

00:29:21.000 You need to reinforce the block.

00:29:23.000 Rico's a big dude.

00:29:24.000 He kicks your arm.

00:29:26.000 Rico's unusual too.

00:29:28.000 He's a big guy but he fights very technically and he's got great cardio.

00:29:32.000 He moves really well.

00:29:35.000 His gas tank is fantastic for a big guy.

00:29:40.000 When he got hurt bad against Jamal Ben Sadiq, you're like, whoa, this does not look good.

00:29:47.000 Then he came back and stopped him. 1.00

00:29:48.000 You're like, that motherfucker's the real deal. 1.00

00:29:50.000 Yeah, definitely. 1.00

00:29:51.000 He's a beast.

00:29:52.000 But again, America, a good guy could go to Walmart. 1.00

00:29:55.000 Nobody knows who the fuck he is. 0.99

00:29:56.000 Wander around. 0.99

00:29:58.000 He's one of the best heavyweight kickboxers of all time.

00:30:01.000 Literally nobody knows who he is.

00:30:02.000 It's strange.

00:30:04.000 Without question.

00:30:05.000 Yeah.

00:30:06.000 Yeah.

00:30:06.000 Now, when you were training with Cody, when you were over at Team Alpha Male, what is the coaching like?

00:30:12.000 How are they doing rounds with him?

00:30:16.000 Well, he was doing his sparring separately.

00:30:18.000 They brought me and Eddie up just to spar with him.

00:30:22.000 Who was coaching him?

00:30:24.000 Danny and Chris Holdsworth.

00:30:28.000 So they were essentially his coaches?

00:30:30.000 Yeah, they were coaching him.

00:30:31.000 Okay.

00:30:31.000 And so when you were working with him, were they saying, hey, we want to really work on certain things?

00:30:36.000 Or were they just letting you do your thing?

00:30:38.000 Were they asking you to...

00:30:39.000 I was being...

00:30:40.000 I go up there and like I said, I go grapple.

00:30:43.000 Right.

00:30:44.000 So I was trying to give him good looks, give him the switches, give him that TJ shoulder move type thing.

00:30:50.000 Did you practice that stuff?

00:30:51.000 No, I've just been one of those guys.

00:30:54.000 Ever since I started with Kieran, I've had to help somebody give him looks.

00:30:58.000 I've just been that guy and I've been good at it.

00:31:00.000 Did you practice TJ's looks or did you just kind of know how to do it?

00:31:05.000 I always switch, regardless.

00:31:08.000 It's one of my favorite things to do, just offensively and defensively.

00:31:11.000 I love switching.

00:31:12.000 Did you have a traditional martial arts background?

00:31:14.000 Did you start out with traditional martial arts?

00:31:15.000 I started with Muay Thai.

00:31:16.000 You started with Muay Thai?

00:31:17.000 Yeah, I started with Muay Thai.

00:31:19.000 The best guys, it's interesting now, the switching thing has become almost like a standard thing.

00:31:25.000 With TJ, you never know what he's doing.

00:31:28.000 He doesn't have a revert back to stance.

00:31:31.000 He might stand southpaw, he might stand orthodox, and he can do both equally well.

00:31:37.000 Well, naturally, I ride with my left hand, naturally, but I stand orthodox.

00:31:43.000 I surf orthodox, I skate orthodox.

00:31:46.000 Well, there's a lot of people, I mean, that was what Eddie Futch used to, or Emmanuel Stewart, rather, used to teach guys to do that.

00:31:52.000 He would take a guy who's right-handed and make him fight southpaws. 0.90

00:31:55.000 You want that lead hand to be your most coordinated hand.

00:31:59.000 Yeah, but we have pad sessions that I'll just stand softball the whole time and I have no problem with it.

00:32:05.000 I, in fact, love sparring softball and I love just switching.

00:32:09.000 Do you feel like your straight left hand has as much power as your straight right hand?

00:32:13.000 Sometimes even more.

00:32:14.000 Really?

00:32:14.000 Sometimes even more, yeah.

00:32:16.000 I feel like I have power with both hands almost equally.

00:32:19.000 It just depends on the angle and where I'm catching.

00:32:22.000 I also try to catch people.

00:32:23.000 At the same time, as they're trying to get away from my right hand, I'll switch stances and aggressively switch into the left hand and make it a power hand.

00:32:33.000 And they think they're getting away from my power hand, but really they're walking into it and I make them switch into it.

00:32:38.000 Ah.

00:32:38.000 Yeah.

00:32:39.000 Now, so when you were working with Cody, did they have any requests?

00:32:44.000 Did they say, hey, this is what Cody's trying to work on?

00:32:47.000 You know, just...

00:32:49.000 I was just switching a lot, trying to give him that switch hook that he got caught with last time.

00:32:54.000 I was trying to just be a good teammate and give him head kicks and that kind of movement. 0.72

00:32:58.000 He was doing fairly well blocking kicks, coming back, and trying to wrestle more.

00:33:04.000 I think they were talking about that was one thing that he lacked in the first fight, not wrestling him enough.

00:33:10.000 What happened Saturday was definitely not the game plan.

00:33:14.000 It wasn't anything like he sparred and it wasn't anything like he trained.

00:33:19.000 I think emotion absolutely took over.

00:33:22.000 So what was their game plan?

00:33:27.000 I think just piece him up, catch him the first round, but actually finish the fight.

00:33:33.000 Obviously kick him a lot and just get him to walk into something.

00:33:37.000 Try to wrestle him a little bit in there too.

00:33:39.000 I think TJ came out really smart as well though.

00:33:42.000 Well, TJ throws himself into the fire, too.

00:33:45.000 He does not play a safe game.

00:33:47.000 He didn't on Saturday, and I think that he was probably a little surprised by how unsafe Cody was so early.

00:33:57.000 That exchange at the end, it's...

00:34:00.000 I mean, TJ's just blocking and looking, and Cody is just going for broke in everything he's throwing.

00:34:06.000 Yeah, and when we were watching the replays, you could clearly see that Cody's path was wider, and there was more strain, and then TJ was more loose, and he got there quicker.

00:34:17.000 And the knockdown, the first knockdown, when he tagged him with the right hand, that was really where it came from.

00:34:23.000 They were both throwing at the same time, but TJ was also doing a better job of getting his head offline.

00:34:27.000 And the thing is, TJ's relationship with Dwayne Ludwig is very unusual.

00:34:33.000 Those guys are like glue. 0.98

00:34:35.000 They're fucking stuck together. 1.00

00:34:37.000 And Dwayne is a maniac. 1.00

00:34:39.000 You know Dwayne. 0.92

00:34:40.000 I know Dwayne.

00:34:42.000 I've known Dwayne a long time.

00:34:43.000 We are friends.

00:34:45.000 And when we coached against each other at The Ultimate Fighter, he literally in the parking lot reminded me that he had the fastest knockout in UFC history. 0.99

00:34:52.000 because he was fucking pissed. 0.96

00:34:53.000 He's just one of those guys that... 0.99

00:34:57.000 Who's pissed about what?

00:34:58.000 Just because we were trying to...

00:35:01.000 He had a training practice that he invited all of Henry's guys to, but Henry couldn't come.

00:35:05.000 And I was like, well, I'm going to have Johnson on come in, and Joe can't come. 0.99

00:35:09.000 And he's like, hey, listen, I'm going to whip my dick out right now. 0.98

00:35:11.000 I'm going to remind you, I've got the fastest knockout in UFC history, so you better calm down, boy. 0.99

00:35:15.000 And I'm like, well, okay, but...

00:35:17.000 But, so he's very emotional, he's very focused, and he's very dedicated to TJ. So I'm agreeing with you on that, but he will go zero.

00:35:26.000 Like that. 1.00

00:35:27.000 Oh yeah, Dwayne's crazy as fuck. 1.00

00:35:29.000 I know Dwayne very, very, very well. 0.99

00:35:31.000 But what I'm saying is that Dwayne is obsessed with TJ's performance and with TJ's improvement.

00:35:38.000 When TJ first beat Hennon Burrell, Dwayne sat down with me.

00:35:42.000 We sat down and we had lunch together that day. 0.99

00:35:44.000 And it was a fucking big underdog. 0.97

00:35:47.000 I mean, Hennon Burrell was thought to be the best pound-for-pound fighter. 0.98

00:35:49.000 If not, number one, certainly number two.

00:35:51.000 That was insane.

00:35:52.000 That was insane when he did that.

00:35:53.000 I was like...

00:35:54.000 Jesus Christ.

00:35:55.000 But it's also the way he did it.

00:35:56.000 He came out so loose, like he was sparring.

00:35:59.000 He came out like, you know, to touch gloves, like he was gonna do a sparring session. 0.98

00:36:02.000 And it looked like a guy who sparred with a fucking hundred rounds. 0.76

00:36:05.000 It wasn't, there was no tension to him. 0.98

00:36:07.000 It was very loose. 1.00

00:36:08.000 He really loves that shit. 1.00

00:36:11.000 He loves it. 1.00

00:36:12.000 He's a rise to the occasion kind of guy, TJ is.

00:36:16.000 And that's one of the reasons why I think he really thrived off this rivalry with Cody.

00:36:21.000 Whereas with Cody, especially because TJ won the first fight and won it by knockout, Cody had all this inner tension, whereas TJ had this inner smile through the entire process.

00:36:33.000 Yeah, definitely.

00:36:34.000 I definitely agree with you.

00:36:35.000 And I think Cody was definitely, it seemed like he was a little more emotional of the two.

00:36:39.000 And one thing that I, and we were talking about emotions and fights and everything, and One thing that I always remember when I get emotional, and it happens in the sparring sessions, and it might happen in fights and stuff, and I always remember Kieran telling me, you want to be...

00:36:55.000 That's your fault, bro.

00:36:56.000 That's not me.

00:36:56.000 No, it's not me.

00:36:57.000 Can't be me.

00:37:02.000 How dare you.

00:37:02.000 How dare you, young man.

00:37:04.000 Shut that piece of shit up. 1.00

00:37:06.000 Now you got Siri going. 1.00

00:37:08.000 You don't even know how to use a phone.

00:37:09.000 You're one of those dudes.

00:37:10.000 Oh, I know how to use a phone.

00:37:11.000 You're one-handed it.

00:37:12.000 Like as if no one's gonna notice.

00:37:14.000 I am.

00:37:14.000 I'm getting it out of the way.

00:37:16.000 It's still on!

00:37:18.000 It's dead. 1.00

00:37:18.000 I killed it. 1.00

00:37:20.000 Go on, Gaston. 0.81

00:37:21.000 Anyways, I always remember...

00:37:25.000 I always remember Kieran telling me, because I would get emotional at times, and I would let my Peruvian machismo get in the way, and I was like, ah!

00:37:34.000 You know, especially, it would happen a lot with Kevin, you know?

00:37:37.000 Like, when Kevin first came to CSA... Kevin Ross.

00:37:39.000 Kevin Ross.

00:37:40.000 When Kevin first came to CSA... Man, those were...

00:37:45.000 I would get beat up a lot.

00:37:48.000 Call it tough love.

00:37:49.000 I don't know what you want to call it, but he would sweep me and beat me up and like...

00:37:54.000 Well, you want him to give it your best.

00:37:57.000 And he made me better.

00:37:59.000 He turned me into a training partner versus somebody he had to...

00:38:03.000 He didn't baby me at any moment.

00:38:05.000 He built me into what I am today.

00:38:09.000 We became training partners and...

00:38:10.000 But one thing that I always remember from Karen is that you don't want to be emotional.

00:38:13.000 You want to be like an assassin.

00:38:15.000 You want to go in there and be calculated.

00:38:18.000 You want to be yourself.

00:38:20.000 Because that's when I fight the best, when I'm myself and when I have no emotion involved.

00:38:24.000 Do you have any sort of a pre-fight routine that you go through mentally in order to get yourself into a state of mind like that?

00:38:30.000 You know, recently since I lost, I don't know if you watched my last year's fight, my second MMA fight with Bellator.

00:38:37.000 Yes, I saw.

00:38:38.000 I got dropped, I got submitted.

00:38:41.000 You got hit with a wheel kick, right?

00:38:42.000 With a wheel kick, yeah.

00:38:43.000 I didn't see it coming out.

00:38:44.000 And then you got triangled.

00:38:45.000 I was going through a lot of the time, going through a divorce, you know, very emotional time of my life last year.

00:38:51.000 And then I had to, you know, dig deep and rise to the occasion and, you know, get out of that hole that I was in.

00:38:57.000 So I was trying to ground in my energy before fights.

00:39:00.000 I was trying to visualize and really see myself doing the things that I would do.

00:39:05.000 Because that's how I got a lot of my knockouts in Lion Fight.

00:39:09.000 It was the weirdest thing.

00:39:10.000 I could just visualize and see it.

00:39:12.000 When I knocked out Tyler Toner, I saw that happening before the fight.

00:39:17.000 It felt like a deja vu moment. 0.99

00:39:20.000 Like, oh shit, I've seen this happen. 0.98

00:39:24.000 I just try to get as calm as I pause the weekend. 1.00

00:39:27.000 I just remind myself there's another day in the office.

00:39:29.000 I've had almost 50 fights now.

00:39:33.000 Regardless of what happens, whether I win or lose, I'm going to go out there and give it my best.

00:39:37.000 But what I try to do is just try to close my eyes and I call it grounding myself.

00:39:43.000 I visualize roots coming out of my feet and hands and I really ground myself and ground my energy into it.

00:39:52.000 You visualize roots, like tree roots.

00:39:54.000 Yeah, like tree roots coming out of my hands and coming out of my feet.

00:39:58.000 This last fight was crazy actually.

00:40:00.000 I could visualize it going all the way into the ring and once I walked in there, it just felt like home.

00:40:06.000 Oh, wow.

00:40:08.000 Crazy.

00:40:08.000 Yeah.

00:40:09.000 And I don't think I even told him that.

00:40:10.000 Is this something that you read how to do?

00:40:13.000 Or is this something that someone coached you how to do?

00:40:15.000 Actually, my ex-wife taught me how to do that.

00:40:18.000 Funny enough, yeah, she taught me how to do that. 1.00

00:40:22.000 And I just, like, I thought, like, she's fucking bullshitting. 0.99

00:40:24.000 Anyways, I tried it. 0.99

00:40:26.000 Did you try it after you got divorced?

00:40:27.000 Yeah.

00:40:28.000 That's hilarious.

00:40:29.000 Yeah.

00:40:29.000 Thanks, honey.

00:40:32.000 Yeah.

00:40:32.000 He got the roots and he got the cats.

00:40:34.000 Did you call her up and tell you she was right?

00:40:36.000 I texted her a while back and I was like, you were right. 1.00

00:40:39.000 That shit works. 1.00

00:40:40.000 That's funny. 1.00

00:40:41.000 And it's crazy.

00:40:42.000 That along with some alpha brain. 0.83

00:40:43.000 I go out there and I'm like, I'm ready to rock and roll.

00:40:46.000 I feel at home.

00:40:47.000 Now, what I was getting to was that relationship between coach and athlete.

00:40:53.000 When it works out great, it's so important.

00:40:56.000 And when you don't have that, like, I mean, there's no disrespect to Danny Castillo and Chris Holdsworth, who are both very good fighters and I'm sure are dedicated, but...

00:41:08.000 Dwayne is a different kind of thing.

00:41:10.000 I mean, he obsesses on various techniques and improvements and footworks and how to change things and how to set things up.

00:41:18.000 He's all day, 24-7.

00:41:20.000 He never shuts off.

00:41:21.000 And the kind of relationship that Dwayne has with TJ is so rare and so beneficial.

00:41:28.000 But the kind of relationship you guys have, this kind of really tight bond between coach and fighter, it...

00:41:37.000 You can win without it, but when you have it, it is just...

00:41:41.000 It's so powerful.

00:41:44.000 I feel like it's crazy now when I'm warming up. 0.97

00:41:48.000 I can see he's getting nervous for me, but I see, I was like, oh shit, he's worried about me. 0.94

00:41:54.000 But it makes me want to go in there and make him proud. 0.97

00:41:58.000 I know he's going to be there regardless.

00:42:01.000 Yeah.

00:42:02.000 It's crazy, but I can see.

00:42:04.000 He tries to hide and it's like, oh, I'm fine.

00:42:06.000 Let's get warm.

00:42:09.000 But I can just see that he's getting nervous for me.

00:42:13.000 Like I said, that just makes me want to do better and go in there and listen to him.

00:42:17.000 Well, you also got to realize how fortunate you are to have found him.

00:42:22.000 There's not a lot of great Muay Thai coaches in America.

00:42:27.000 I mean, where I live out here, good luck finding a gym to even train at.

00:42:31.000 I mean, you can go to some guy who's going to hold pads for you, but as far as legit Muay Thai coaching in the valley, you've got Saxon and Julio out in Van Nuys.

00:42:44.000 But that's a half hour, 45 minutes away from here.

00:42:48.000 Especially with this traffic, man.

00:42:49.000 Jesus Christ.

00:42:50.000 Yeah, that's a half hour, 45 minutes at 2 o'clock in the morning, I should say.

00:42:54.000 At 3, it'll take you two hours to get there.

00:42:57.000 Yeah, I mean, the fact that you just stumbled upon him in this lucky way when you were that young.

00:43:03.000 Well, like I said, we just clicked, man.

00:43:05.000 We just clicked.

00:43:06.000 After I lost that fight against that kid with 80-plus fights, we just clicked.

00:43:10.000 And then I started...

00:43:11.000 I didn't work my conditioning at all back then.

00:43:14.000 I just ran and trained.

00:43:16.000 That's another lucky thing. 0.99

00:43:17.000 I mean, you have a fucking giant CrossFit gym. 0.99

00:43:19.000 You're not just... 0.99

00:43:20.000 Your gym is not just Muay Thai. 1.00

00:43:22.000 You have a massive fucking gym. 1.00

00:43:25.000 Well, yeah. 1.00

00:43:26.000 I mean, we started out at 5,000 square feet.

00:43:28.000 Then three years later, we went to 12. Now we're at 25. Jesus.

00:43:31.000 Yeah.

00:43:31.000 CrossFit, standalone.

00:43:33.000 And again, a lot of my people don't use CrossFit.

00:43:35.000 Like Kevin, he can't keep muscle on.

00:43:37.000 So he powerlifts with our powerlifting coach, Jesse Burdick.

00:43:39.000 He doesn't do CrossFit because he needs to keep weight on.

00:43:42.000 Gaston CrossFit.

00:43:44.000 And then, so for us, everything, what's unique about our gym is that everything's kind of done under the same roof.

00:43:52.000 I don't do a lot of guest coaching.

00:43:54.000 I'm doing it with the alpha male guys because Alex Munoz is coaching wrestling for us, and I felt for me that was one area that, as a gym, we needed to grow.

00:44:05.000 Alex comes in and coaches, so I coach his stand-up.

00:44:07.000 It's been a good, beneficial relationship for both gyms, but I don't go there and coach.

00:44:14.000 Those guys will come down.

00:44:15.000 Benito works with me now.

00:44:16.000 Alex works with me.

00:44:17.000 He'll bring Ricardo Ramos, who just fought.

00:44:19.000 Ricardo comes down.

00:44:21.000 Before the wrestling class, we'll have a little sparring session, like small gloves.

00:44:25.000 We have a full-size cage, so it's very beneficial.

00:44:29.000 We'll just do a round-robin type of thing.

00:44:32.000 One goes in, the other one's out.

00:44:34.000 And it's great.

00:44:35.000 I get really good looks from those guys.

00:44:37.000 What made the decision for you to do three different sports?

00:44:41.000 Why not dedicate yourself to one?

00:44:44.000 Well, I started purely as a Muay Thai fighter.

00:44:47.000 Right.

00:44:48.000 And then the opportunity to sign with Bellator came in.

00:44:50.000 We always knew that MMA would be where we would end up.

00:44:54.000 Why?

00:44:55.000 I just love fighting, man.

00:44:56.000 I love Muay Thai, obviously.

00:44:59.000 If I could just do Muay Thai, I'll probably do that.

00:45:02.000 So if Muay Thai had the same financial possibilities?

00:45:06.000 I used to say that a lot, actually.

00:45:07.000 Let me correct myself there.

00:45:09.000 But now it's like...

00:45:10.000 I feel like I'm getting so much better in completing my journey as a martial artist that MMA is definitely where I want to end up at just alone.

00:45:22.000 And then we had the opportunity with Belter to do kickboxing and MMA and then maybe do a few Muay Thai fights on the side if it didn't interrupt anything with them.

00:45:30.000 So that's pretty much how it happened.

00:45:32.000 He fought five times last year.

00:45:35.000 And he fought kickboxing, MMA, and Muay Thai.

00:45:39.000 And if he was just like with the UFC, he couldn't do that.

00:45:42.000 I think Muay Thai prepares you better for MMA than kickboxing does, not just because of the fact you have elbows, but also because of the fact of the clinch.

00:45:50.000 The grappling.

00:45:51.000 People don't understand how much grappling there is in Muay Thai.

00:45:56.000 Like, when you go to Thailand, and I went to Siksong Pinong, one of the best camps in Bangkok, and one of the best camps in the world.

00:46:03.000 They have Siddha Chai was, like, right now the glory champion at 155. But they clinch twice a day for at least 30 minutes to an hour every day.

00:46:15.000 That's a lot of grappling.

00:46:17.000 Yeah, a lot of grappling.

00:46:18.000 So their sweeps and just their ability to manipulate each other.

00:46:22.000 And I think that's one thing that has helped my understanding in wrestling and jiu-jitsu as well.

00:46:29.000 I pick up things a lot faster than...

00:46:31.000 Your average Muay Thai fighter probably does.

00:46:33.000 Right.

00:46:34.000 Just because of that clinch.

00:46:35.000 So how much Jiu Jitsu are you doing?

00:46:40.000 What are we focused on right now?

00:46:42.000 So we have Monday about four days a week?

00:46:44.000 About four days a week.

00:46:45.000 About four days a week of Jiu Jitsu.

00:46:47.000 A couple days of just drills and situational sparring.

00:46:52.000 So when you're doing a fight like your last Bellator fight, which you just won, was it two weeks ago?

00:46:57.000 Three weeks ago?

00:46:58.000 Three weeks ago?

00:46:59.000 About three weeks ago.

00:47:00.000 So, when you're doing that, how far out will you just do kickboxing?

00:47:04.000 Like, how much time do you give yourself when you don't do anything else?

00:47:07.000 Or do you still wrestle and still do jiu-jitsu even though you're preparing for a kickboxing fight?

00:47:12.000 I'm fairly new to MMA and to grappling alone, so I try to just keep a couple days a week in there so I can keep it fresh, you know?

00:47:21.000 Because I'm fighting September 29th again, MMA. So...

00:47:25.000 Who are you fighting?

00:47:26.000 I don't know yet.

00:47:27.000 I don't think we have an opponent yet.

00:47:29.000 It's a month away.

00:47:30.000 They don't give you an opponent?

00:47:32.000 It's like six weeks away.

00:47:34.000 Eight weeks.

00:47:35.000 Eight weeks.

00:47:38.000 Something like that.

00:47:39.000 Something like that.

00:47:41.000 What is today?

00:47:42.000 The 5th?

00:47:43.000 6th of August?

00:47:44.000 6th of August?

00:47:45.000 Yeah.

00:47:45.000 So it's almost eight weeks.

00:47:47.000 So they give you an opponent and then you have to decide how to prepare.

00:47:52.000 Like if it's a stand-up fighter, we just ramp up the stand-up more.

00:47:57.000 Well, most of these guys, even the very MMA fighters and their stand-up guys, I feel like they're going to try to take me down regardless if they find the opportunity.

00:48:05.000 Once they get cracked, they're going to want to go on the ground regardless.

00:48:10.000 So we're always trying to work on getting right back up, working on keeping control if we're in their guard so we don't get submitted with anything like it happened last year on September 23rd.

00:48:22.000 So we're always trying to work all areas regardless.

00:48:25.000 As a martial artist, I always want to be ready for anything that could possibly happen.

00:48:29.000 It's a fight, man.

00:48:31.000 Anything can happen.

00:48:32.000 Anything can happen.

00:48:34.000 People always watch tape.

00:48:36.000 As a fighter, I've learned that I can evolve so much in just six to eight weeks, which is what people have as camps.

00:48:44.000 And so you never know who you're going to get when you're in front of them in the cage.

00:48:49.000 So I'm always trying to be ready for anything.

00:48:51.000 Do you think there's ever going to come a time where you get into a championship level where you just stop fighting Muay Thai and stop fighting kickboxing and just concentrate on MMA? Yeah, probably.

00:49:01.000 I think there's definitely going to be a time that I'm only going to be an MMA fighter.

00:49:05.000 I definitely see that in the future.

00:49:07.000 I would also like to be one of the first guys to hold a kickboxing belt, like a belt or kickboxing world championship, and be a top contender.

00:49:17.000 I want to be definitely that kind of guy that can prove that they can do both at a super high level.

00:49:24.000 It's interesting.

00:49:26.000 Beltor is really starting to make progress.

00:49:28.000 I mean, they have real, legit, world-class fighters now.

00:49:32.000 You know, they have Gegard Mousasi's arguably, if not the best, one of the best 185-pounders in the world.

00:49:38.000 I mean, in my opinion, he's right up there with Robert Whittaker.

00:49:42.000 He's one of my favorites, man.

00:49:43.000 His striking is legit.

00:49:46.000 I'm a big fan of Mousasi.

00:49:48.000 Yeah, I am too.

00:49:49.000 He's super well-rounded, too.

00:49:50.000 I mean, with everything.

00:49:51.000 And he's just so calm, his demeanor, his mentality. 0.79

00:49:55.000 He's an assassin.

00:49:56.000 Like, a legit assassin.

00:49:58.000 As is Roy McDonald.

00:49:59.000 And they're both.

00:50:00.000 That's the car that I'm fighting on.

00:50:02.000 I'm super excited about that.

00:50:03.000 It's a crazy fight they decide to make. 0.99

00:50:04.000 Like, why the fuck would you do that? 0.98

00:50:06.000 I don't understand why you would take, arguably, your best two guys and have them fight and they're not even in the same weight class. 0.99

00:50:14.000 I mean, I guess to make a super fight...

00:50:16.000 I think there's pressure with the super fight movement with the UFC from Bellator to keep up.

00:50:21.000 I think there's probably...

00:50:24.000 And again, it might not be Scott's idea.

00:50:26.000 It might be Paramount's idea.

00:50:27.000 I don't know.

00:50:28.000 Well, it could very well be Rory and Gegard's idea, too.

00:50:30.000 I mean, they might be saying, hey, let's make some hours.

00:50:32.000 Well, they called each other out right away as soon as Musazi became the champion at 185. They were like, listen, man.

00:50:37.000 Rory's a fucking psycho. 1.00

00:50:39.000 I mean, he's a legit fucking psycho in the best way possible. 1.00

00:50:43.000 You know, he's a really good guy. 0.96

00:50:44.000 Do you get to know him at all?

00:50:45.000 Not at all.

00:50:46.000 We're both on the Monster team with Hans and all those guys.

00:50:51.000 Shout out to Hans Monken.

00:50:53.000 Yeah, man.

00:50:53.000 Triumph United, man.

00:50:54.000 Triumph United. 0.99

00:50:55.000 Yeah, he just sent me a bunch of gloves and shit. 0.97

00:50:58.000 And you guys were saying his bags are the best bags. 0.96

00:50:59.000 Yeah, definitely.

00:51:00.000 Absolutely.

00:51:01.000 His gloves, the Death Adder.

00:51:04.000 I think I saw you have a pair.

00:51:06.000 It's my favorite glove.

00:51:07.000 He makes great gloves.

00:51:08.000 Favorite glove. 1.00

00:51:08.000 He knows his shit. 1.00

00:51:09.000 Yeah, definitely. 1.00

00:51:11.000 So, what we were just saying.

00:51:13.000 We were talking about Rory. 0.97

00:51:16.000 What I was saying is people had this idea of who he was, and then he came on and did my podcast, and people were like, oh, he's fucking normal. 0.88

00:51:24.000 He's a good guy. 0.97

00:51:26.000 Everybody thought he was this autistic psycho who couldn't communicate with people.

00:51:30.000 I've never met him, but from what I heard from Hans, he's a super nice guy.

00:51:34.000 Very smart.

00:51:35.000 Very intelligent.

00:51:37.000 He's funny, actually.

00:51:39.000 His fight with Lawler was one of my favorite fights of all time.

00:51:43.000 Jesus Christ.

00:51:45.000 What a crazy fight, man.

00:51:47.000 First time I ever saw him was when he fought Nate.

00:51:49.000 I was there when Jake fought GSP. I was cornering Jake.

00:51:52.000 That's Canada, right?

00:51:53.000 It was in Canada, in Toronto. 0.99

00:51:54.000 And I didn't know who he was, and I watched that fight for the back, and I was just like, holy shit, this kid is phenomenal. 0.99

00:52:03.000 Yeah. 0.90

00:52:04.000 And I don't think anybody anticipated his level of wrestling at that time.

00:52:07.000 I think Nate thought he was...

00:52:08.000 I'm going to be able to slap him up.

00:52:10.000 After that, I became a huge, huge fan.

00:52:13.000 I mean, obviously, Nate's my boy, and I love Nate.

00:52:16.000 Just wrong weight class.

00:52:18.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:52:19.000 Not big enough.

00:52:20.000 It's one thing to fight Conor at 170, but Rory's giant at 170. And he's also training with GSP, TriStar, and I'm a giant fan of Farras Ahabi and what he's managed to put together up there in Montreal.

00:52:34.000 They just have a camp that's such an elite camp.

00:52:38.000 It's just a different level of just well-rounded fighters. 0.99

00:52:44.000 It's a fucking phenomenal place. 0.98

00:52:47.000 Phenomenal, phenomenal coach. 0.99

00:52:48.000 One of my favorites.

00:52:49.000 One of my favorite coaches.

00:52:50.000 I'm excited to see Nate fight Poirier.

00:52:52.000 I'm excited to see Nate back.

00:52:54.000 I was wondering. 1.00

00:52:55.000 I was like, fuck, man. 1.00

00:52:56.000 It's been like two years. 1.00

00:52:58.000 I was surprised he took the fight.

00:52:59.000 Then I was also surprised that he was mad that they were doing Conor versus Khabib.

00:53:04.000 Yeah, I didn't expect that at all.

00:53:06.000 They were both mad.

00:53:07.000 Dustin's mad, too. 1.00

00:53:07.000 I was like, what the fuck are you guys mad for? 1.00

00:53:09.000 Well, I thought Dustin was going to wait to get his title shot, but I guess that fight makes sense, man. 0.99

00:53:15.000 He might not have got that title shot, though.

00:53:17.000 Tony Ferguson's healing up.

00:53:19.000 He's back in the mix.

00:53:20.000 Who knows what's going to happen with James Vick when James Vick is going to fight Justin Gaethje.

00:53:28.000 Vick's on, I think, a 10 or 11 fight win streak.

00:53:31.000 Something crazy like that.

00:53:33.000 155 pounds. 1.00

00:53:34.000 Fucking stacked! 0.99

00:53:36.000 That's a stacked weight class, man. 0.99

00:53:38.000 You know, and then you still have so many guys that are coming up that are, you know, like one or two fights away. 0.61

00:53:45.000 Then, of course, you got fucking Kevin Lee, who, in my opinion, has the best argument for the next title shot. 0.99

00:53:51.000 He's a monster. 1.00

00:53:52.000 He's a monster. 1.00

00:53:53.000 His last fight. 0.82

00:53:55.000 So it's him, Tony Ferguson, when Tony's healthy again.

00:53:57.000 Tony's not 100% healthy.

00:53:59.000 But I mean, Dustin, I think it's right to take that fight because he's not the most compelling guy.

00:54:04.000 I know he wants to, but he just got knocked out by Michael Johnson a year ago.

00:54:09.000 There's a lot, maybe a little bit more than a year ago.

00:54:13.000 But it's like still.

00:54:14.000 And then you've got to remember when Johnson fought Khabib, Khabib mauled him.

00:54:20.000 I mean, there's a lot of people in that weight class.

00:54:23.000 Johnson went down to 45, though, right?

00:54:25.000 Yeah, Johnson's fighting Philly.

00:54:28.000 Yeah.

00:54:28.000 I like that.

00:54:29.000 Yeah, Philly's coming down to train with us as well.

00:54:32.000 But he lost his first fight at 45 to Darren Elkins, and he looked really good physically.

00:54:37.000 He was ripped for the first time.

00:54:38.000 He was shredded.

00:54:39.000 But I wonder, man, how much does he walk around at?

00:54:42.000 He's a big fella.

00:54:44.000 How much does he walk around at, and how much is he depleting his body to get down to that 100?

00:54:49.000 That's one thing I don't think some people...

00:54:52.000 Realize, like, yeah, okay, you made the weight, you only cut in, like, seven, eight pounds, like, the night before, but when you're depleting your body throughout, like, that camp, I think, I can definitely, you know, people ask me all the time, hey, are you gonna go to Bantam?

00:55:05.000 I'm like, fuck no, man, I like, I like feeling good throughout my camp.

00:55:09.000 What do you walk around at? 0.99

00:55:10.000 Like, 162. Oh, that's not too bad.

00:55:13.000 17 pounds.

00:55:14.000 That's what people tell me.

00:55:15.000 Oh, you could probably make bantamweight.

00:55:16.000 I was like, yeah, man, but I like to feel strong physically, mentally strong throughout my camp.

00:55:23.000 Only cut like 8 to 10 pounds.

00:55:25.000 Yeah, we don't cut a lot of weight at CSA. Smart.

00:55:29.000 I don't like it.

00:55:30.000 I don't want it.

00:55:30.000 And part of it is I got this kid knocked out.

00:55:33.000 I'm telling you right now, as a coach, you have to own it.

00:55:37.000 It was my fault.

00:55:38.000 Fight week, I'm going to take five extra pounds off of this kid just because he's not going to fight?

00:55:43.000 Okay, then we don't fight.

00:55:45.000 You learn as you go.

00:55:47.000 So no, I have a 10% rule.

00:55:50.000 I'll pull you.

00:55:51.000 I like what 1FC is doing.

00:55:54.000 We had Ben Askren in here and he was explaining how 1FC does these hydration tests.

00:55:59.000 They test you all the time.

00:56:02.000 They test you several times.

00:56:03.000 They find out what your actual weight is.

00:56:05.000 They test your hydration levels.

00:56:07.000 Like weeks before, right?

00:56:07.000 Yeah, several times.

00:56:08.000 They moved everybody up in weight class.

00:56:10.000 They kept their champions, but they made Ben, instead of a 170, they made him a 185-pound champ.

00:56:16.000 California's doing hydration tests on fight day.

00:56:20.000 Yes.

00:56:20.000 Just fight day.

00:56:21.000 I don't think it works that well.

00:56:23.000 No.

00:56:24.000 Well, they're also making you not weigh more than 10% more than what you weighed in.

00:56:29.000 And they've moved up a couple.

00:56:30.000 I don't think they find you the first time you do it.

00:56:33.000 They just advise you to go up.

00:56:36.000 And I think they don't allow you to fight at that same weight. 0.99

00:56:39.000 It's still, for a 200-pound fighter, that's 20 fucking pounds. 0.97

00:56:44.000 That's a lot of weight, man. 0.99

00:56:45.000 That's a lot of weight.

00:56:47.000 Like if I pulled 20 pounds of water out of my body right now, I mean, I'd be stumbling into walls.

00:56:52.000 I mean, you're on death's door.

00:56:54.000 Literally.

00:56:55.000 You're not gonna take shots the same way.

00:56:56.000 You're just not. 0.99

00:56:57.000 No fucking way. 1.00

00:56:58.000 And your organs. 1.00

00:56:59.000 That's a big thing. 0.99

00:57:01.000 Your organs start fucking up. 0.92

00:57:02.000 I know a guy who, well, I know someone who knows him. 0.99

00:57:05.000 He was in a bodybuilding competition.

00:57:08.000 And this is a 36-year-old guy who's, you know, just amateur bodybuilding competition.

00:57:13.000 Got down to a really low body fat and just really wanted to win the competition.

00:57:17.000 Won. 1.00

00:57:18.000 And then two weeks afterwards, his fucking body shut down. 1.00

00:57:21.000 His organs started shutting down. 1.00

00:57:22.000 He had a heart attack.

00:57:23.000 His family found him dead.

00:57:25.000 Just died of a heart attack.

00:57:26.000 36 years old.

00:57:27.000 Yeah.

00:57:27.000 The water comes out of the organs last and it goes back in last.

00:57:31.000 But it's also the damage you do to them by depleting them and drying them out, your kidneys.

00:57:38.000 Going back to that fight that I got knocked out, I cut all that weight.

00:57:42.000 I made the weight.

00:57:43.000 I weighed in, but I couldn't keep water in.

00:57:48.000 I was drinking and... 1.00

00:57:50.000 I just felt like shit. 0.99

00:57:51.000 I went to bed probably only a couple pounds heavier after cutting 12 pounds. 0.99

00:57:57.000 I couldn't keep water in.

00:58:00.000 You were taking Pedialyte and stuff like that as well?

00:58:03.000 Yeah.

00:58:03.000 He works with Dolce now.

00:58:05.000 Yeah, I work with Dolce now.

00:58:06.000 I do it a smart way.

00:58:08.000 But back then, we would just do whatever.

00:58:10.000 Gatorade and anything.

00:58:11.000 I didn't even eat that night because I couldn't hold anything in.

00:58:15.000 My stomach just went in such a stage that I was just like...

00:58:19.000 Have you compared methods?

00:58:20.000 Like, have you guys talked to Lockhart and different guys and see how everybody does it?

00:58:24.000 Does everybody do it the same way?

00:58:26.000 No, no.

00:58:27.000 Not everybody's doing it the same way.

00:58:28.000 Most people are using a probiotic, right?

00:58:31.000 Probiotic to rehydrate?

00:58:33.000 No, to get your stomach ready to start digesting food again and all of that.

00:58:38.000 What probiotic do they use?

00:58:39.000 It depends on who's sponsoring them.

00:58:42.000 So for us right now, we're using Mike's stuff.

00:58:45.000 Mike's been tremendous to the team through the years.

00:58:47.000 It's all natural.

00:58:48.000 I mean, his rehydration drink is water, Himalayan salt, honey, blah, blah, blah.

00:58:53.000 I'm not going to put it out there, but it's all natural stuff.

00:58:56.000 And it's all stuff that you're taking during.

00:58:59.000 I'm always having chia seeds and pink Himalayan salt and honey.

00:59:04.000 I like Lockhart, but literally I know that he worked with Dustin, and there were three different shake bottles that Dustin had to consume.

00:59:13.000 Which Dustin?

00:59:14.000 Dustin Ortiz, before his last fight, the head kick.

00:59:17.000 You've got to let everybody know.

00:59:18.000 There's a million people listening.

00:59:19.000 A million Dustin's, yes.

00:59:20.000 Dustin Ortiz.

00:59:21.000 And he had three different shake bottles, and each one had different ingredients to be taken at different times, and it was just really hard for Dustin to keep track of all that.

00:59:30.000 Is there science behind that, though?

00:59:32.000 That I don't know.

00:59:32.000 I don't know enough about what George is doing.

00:59:35.000 Yeah, I mean, I get that it would be hard to keep track of it, but if there's a tangible benefit to keeping track of those three different things.

00:59:43.000 Yeah, for me, the natural method that Dolce uses is what I'll use if a fighter's not paying somebody else to do it.

00:59:49.000 So you have this rehydration drink, and you make so much of it, like a gallon.

00:59:53.000 And you're only absorbing chia seeds, pink Himalayan salt, lemon.

00:59:58.000 Pink Himalayan salt.

01:00:00.000 It sounded like you said pink Himalayan salt.

01:00:02.000 No, pink Himalayan salt.

01:00:05.000 He said it again.

01:00:06.000 You should hear him ask for packwort.

01:00:09.000 Can we do packwort tonight?

01:00:10.000 I get it, you're Spanish.

01:00:12.000 I've only been speaking English for what, like 12 years?

01:00:14.000 I get it, man.

01:00:16.000 No big deal.

01:00:17.000 Coach, can we do packwort tonight?

01:00:19.000 Sure, of course, Gaston.

01:00:21.000 No problem.

01:00:22.000 So, I'm sorry.

01:00:23.000 Chia seeds, pink Himalayan salt.

01:00:26.000 Lemon and honey.

01:00:27.000 Why honey? 0.98

01:00:27.000 What is the honey for? 0.98

01:00:28.000 I don't know the purpose behind it.

01:00:30.000 It tastes good.

01:00:31.000 I don't know.

01:00:31.000 Right.

01:00:31.000 Sure.

01:00:32.000 Definitely tastes good.

01:00:32.000 I think you're going to take some of the sting off of the salt and just for a little bit of the carb and the sugar.

01:00:39.000 So right off the scale, you take 16 ounces of the drink with some fruit, and then you wait 15 minutes.

01:00:46.000 So you're absorbing all the nutrients versus drinking or eating too much, which is what we used to do.

01:00:53.000 Yeah, sandwich right away.

01:00:54.000 Which is probably what happened. 0.99

01:00:56.000 Oh, I was a fucking mad scientist at that time. 0.97

01:00:59.000 I'm like, oh, okay, we're going to take a little bit of this. 0.98

01:01:01.000 Maybe creatine and like...

01:01:02.000 Because, you know, every ounce of carbs, you know, you're going to hold three ounces of water and creatine is going to make you...

01:01:08.000 Does creatine help you rehydrate?

01:01:11.000 Because it does make you retain water, right?

01:01:13.000 Yes, but if you're not taking creatine normally, you know, it's going to be...

01:01:18.000 But again, at the time, early on in my career, you know, a lot of everything that I've done from hand wrapping to...

01:01:24.000 Conditioning to hydration.

01:01:27.000 It's all learn as you go.

01:01:30.000 Creatine does make you stronger.

01:01:32.000 It really does work.

01:01:33.000 But it also makes your face fat.

01:01:36.000 It definitely makes you...

01:01:38.000 You just put more mass on.

01:01:41.000 That winter coat on.

01:01:43.000 Absolutely.

01:01:44.000 Creatine monohydrate.

01:01:45.000 As far as like crealkaline and all I said, but creatine monohydrate is one of the only proven supplements legally that can make you stronger.

01:01:55.000 But again, whether or not it's good for you, science says whatever, but at the time...

01:01:59.000 I think it is good for you.

01:02:00.000 I believe it is.

01:02:03.000 I think it's actually been proven to actually have a...

01:02:05.000 Jamie, Google creatine nootropic benefits, because I feel like I remember reading that they're actually finding that there's some cognitive benefit to taking creatine.

01:02:19.000 No, absolutely.

01:02:20.000 I've read the same thing.

01:02:21.000 More water, your brain would function better.

01:02:25.000 You know how it is when you're dehydrated. 1.00

01:02:26.000 You can't fucking remember. 1.00

01:02:28.000 Shit! 1.00

01:02:28.000 My brain's useless when I'm dehydrated. 1.00

01:02:31.000 Well, think about cutting 12 pounds.

01:02:34.000 I used to do it in the old Taekwondo days and fight the same day.

01:02:38.000 And no rehydration.

01:02:40.000 Didn't know what I was doing.

01:02:41.000 And when I went from 140 to 154, that's when I got good.

01:02:45.000 When I stopped cutting all the weight.

01:02:47.000 Before that, I was just a zombie.

01:02:50.000 And I see it in these guys. 0.99

01:02:51.000 I see these guys show up at the weigh-in, and I see their sunken eyes, their sunken cheek, and it makes me sick, man, which is why I constantly harp on this fucking 1FC thing. 0.96

01:03:01.000 You know, when I talked to the UFC guys, I talked to them a couple times. 0.80

01:03:04.000 I was like, look, you guys have implemented this unbelievable, innovative, and really just fantastic strategy for cutting out all the steroid use.

01:03:14.000 Mm-hmm.

01:03:14.000 I mean, what you guys done is amazing.

01:03:16.000 It's so progressive.

01:03:17.000 You're on top of it.

01:03:18.000 You're ahead of everybody.

01:03:19.000 And you're really setting the standard. 1.00

01:03:21.000 Do that shit with weight cutting. 1.00

01:03:23.000 They should, yeah. 1.00

01:03:23.000 Do that shit with weight cutting. 1.00

01:03:25.000 Don't blow up your champions. 1.00

01:03:27.000 Move them.

01:03:28.000 Move them.

01:03:29.000 Move them to just decide.

01:03:33.000 There it is.

01:03:42.000 more effectively.

01:03:43.000 Unlike caffeine, you don't feel like you have more energy.

01:03:46.000 Okay, this is not a science journal.

01:03:48.000 What is this? 0.98

01:03:49.000 Like someone's blog or some shit? 0.99

01:03:50.000 Negates symptoms of sleep deprivation. 1.00

01:03:53.000 Oh, shit. 1.00

01:03:54.000 You need some of that. 1.00

01:03:56.000 Sometimes life happens.

01:03:57.000 Dude, I just got back I was in Thailand for nine days.

01:04:00.000 And I've been back for a week, and I still wake up after sleeping for two hours. 0.99

01:04:05.000 And I'm like, what the fuck? 0.99

01:04:06.000 Why am I awake? 0.99

01:04:07.000 And then I go downstairs, I'll eat, I'll watch TV, and I'm like, I might as well just work out.

01:04:12.000 I'm wide awake.

01:04:12.000 And then an hour later, exhausted.

01:04:15.000 Can't wait to go to sleep.

01:04:16.000 Go to sleep, four more hours.

01:04:18.000 Do you train at all out there?

01:04:19.000 No.

01:04:20.000 I had a meniscus tear.

01:04:21.000 I was just there with my family for a vacation.

01:04:23.000 But it was a very fascinating thing that happened to me.

01:04:25.000 I had a meniscus tear.

01:04:27.000 Small meniscus tear.

01:04:28.000 And I went running on it.

01:04:30.000 I was doing yoga on it.

01:04:31.000 It seemed to be fine.

01:04:32.000 Then I ran on it.

01:04:33.000 Because it seemed like my knee was just a little sore.

01:04:37.000 And then after I ran on it, it locked up on me.

01:04:39.000 It was really tight. 0.99

01:04:41.000 So I said, fuck, I've got to go get an MRI. So I get an MRI. They say, yeah, you've got a meniscus tear. 1.00

01:04:46.000 You can get a menoscopy operation.

01:04:54.000 Or we could try exosomes.

01:04:59.000 Google exosomes so we can explain it in a technical way.

01:05:03.000 But I had some of that shot into my shoulder with miraculous results.

01:05:08.000 I mean, I've had a bunch of different things done to my shoulder, and then I always wind up re-injuring it partially, and then I'll get more stem cells.

01:05:15.000 This had, by far, the greatest benefit of anything I've ever done.

01:05:19.000 So I get it shot into my knee. 0.99

01:05:21.000 When I say within two weeks I had no pain, I mean fucking nothing. 0.96

01:05:27.000 Like deep squats, no problem, not bothering me at all, and I was doing only bodyweight stuff for like six weeks. 0.96

01:05:36.000 I need it.

01:05:37.000 I need to know about it.

01:05:38.000 Not for me, for my wife. 0.97

01:05:40.000 She's my test dummy. 0.98

01:05:41.000 It's fucking incredible what this has done. 0.98

01:05:44.000 I ran yesterday, ran in the hills for the first time in six weeks. 0.97

01:05:48.000 Zero pain, zero discomfort. 0.99

01:05:50.000 I woke up this morning saying, fuck, it better not be stiff. 0.99

01:05:52.000 I don't feel it, man. 0.99

01:05:54.000 It feels like there's nothing there.

01:05:56.000 That's impressive.

01:05:57.000 Regenerative medicine, what T.J. Dillshaw had done.

01:06:00.000 T.J. Dillashaw went down to Panama on two separate occasions to work with Dr. Neil Reardon, who is doing that in Panama.

01:06:08.000 Well, they're also doing similar things right now.

01:06:10.000 They're able to do that in Santa Monica, but it's under some sort of a test thing.

01:06:14.000 They're doing a test study to see how this stuff works.

01:06:17.000 But they do it with PRP as well.

01:06:20.000 So they put exosomes in your body, and they inject it with PRP, and the PRP and the exosomes work together and regenerate tissue. 0.99

01:06:30.000 It's radical shit, man. 0.98

01:06:32.000 I mean, it used to have a meniscus tear. 1.00

01:06:34.000 Your knee was fucked up for months. 0.98

01:06:36.000 If it was so stiff that you couldn't walk without a limp, it's not going to get better in a week. 1.00

01:06:42.000 This shit was better in a week. 0.99

01:06:43.000 In two weeks there was zero even recognition that there was anything wrong. 1.00

01:06:48.000 It didn't feel like there was anything wrong.

01:06:49.000 Well, that is crazy. 1.00

01:06:50.000 It's fucking nuts, man. 0.99

01:06:52.000 And this is, you know, here we are in 2018. 2028, they're going to grow you a new fucking leg. 1.00

01:06:58.000 I mean, we're really close to some crazy shit. 1.00

01:07:02.000 Yeah, I know. 0.98

01:07:02.000 Do you know they're repairing completely torn ACLs now? 0.98

01:07:06.000 Instead of replacing them?

01:07:07.000 They just repair them?

01:07:08.000 Your ACL snaps.

01:07:09.000 They've figured out a way to repair them where they got someone back to the U.S. bobsled team four months after the operation.

01:07:17.000 That's crazy. 0.99

01:07:18.000 Fucking crazy. 0.99

01:07:20.000 They've got guys doing box jumps four months after complete ACL tears. 0.99

01:07:25.000 My wife competed at the CrossFit Games four months after ACL replacement. 0.99

01:07:32.000 How'd she do that? 0.99

01:07:34.000 Dr. Maury Harwood in Los Gatos.

01:07:37.000 How is that possible?

01:07:38.000 But the ACL would not have been reformed by then.

01:07:42.000 No, she had it replaced.

01:07:44.000 She had the cadaver graph.

01:07:45.000 But the cadaver graph, to understand, is just a scaffolding.

01:07:48.000 Understood.

01:07:48.000 Understood completely.

01:07:49.000 So it wouldn't have been fully formed by then.

01:07:51.000 Well, see, here's the thing.

01:07:52.000 The way CrossFit works is it's not an impact.

01:07:55.000 It's not a contact sport.

01:07:56.000 Right.

01:07:57.000 So surgery in October, she was competing again in February, right?

01:08:01.000 So November, December, January, February.

01:08:03.000 And then by the time the games rolled around in July, she was now at like that eight-month mark.

01:08:07.000 So eight months is okay.

01:08:09.000 They say six months is when it's really pretty much healed.

01:08:12.000 Right.

01:08:12.000 But she was in the gym the next day.

01:08:14.000 Right.

01:08:14.000 Like literally, you have ACL surgery.

01:08:16.000 I follow your wife on Instagram.

01:08:18.000 Jack Jessica. 0.99

01:08:19.000 She's a maniac, dude. 1.00

01:08:21.000 What is it like being married to a maniac? 1.00

01:08:23.000 I made her a maniac. 1.00

01:08:25.000 When I met her, she was... 0.95

01:08:26.000 I bet she did a lot of it herself.

01:08:27.000 When I... No, when I met her, she was a hippie and she was an actress. 1.00

01:08:31.000 Seriously.

01:08:33.000 The level of maniac that she has, there ain't nobody making that. 0.99

01:08:37.000 No, no, no. 0.74

01:08:37.000 That's true. 0.74

01:08:38.000 That shit's in there. 1.00

01:08:39.000 You want to unlock the door. 1.00

01:08:41.000 There you go. 1.00

01:08:42.000 But yeah, there's a fucking room that's always been in there filled with crazy. 1.00

01:08:45.000 Oh, no. 1.00

01:08:46.000 She's amazing.

01:08:47.000 43. She's doing her first figure competition now.

01:08:51.000 She took the year off of...

01:08:52.000 What is a figure?

01:08:53.000 What is that?

01:08:54.000 Like a bodybuilding type?

01:08:56.000 Yeah, she's never done it.

01:08:57.000 So she set a bunch of powerlifting records. 1.00

01:09:01.000 She went to the games twice.

01:09:02.000 She fought.

01:09:03.000 She was on the U.S. hockey team.

01:09:06.000 And now she's going to do a figure comp. 0.97

01:09:08.000 And then, you know, she's crazy. 0.99

01:09:10.000 Mom. 0.99

01:09:10.000 Wow. 0.99

01:09:11.000 His mom.

01:09:13.000 It's your mom.

01:09:13.000 I don't know if you saw that picture that I posted from my last kickboxing fight.

01:09:17.000 It was Kieran in the corner.

01:09:20.000 And it was Jessica right there holding the eyes.

01:09:21.000 It was like an amazing picture.

01:09:22.000 It's amazing that she could start training that hard four months later.

01:09:27.000 Because a lot of people will especially...

01:09:29.000 The real issue with fighters is the lateral movement.

01:09:33.000 It's all the footwork and the movement.

01:09:34.000 And that's when they always wind up blowing their knee out.

01:09:36.000 Like so many guys.

01:09:38.000 I tore my MCL last year.

01:09:39.000 Completely.

01:09:40.000 Two weeks before his MMA debut.

01:09:42.000 There she is.

01:09:43.000 Yeah.

01:09:44.000 Absolutely.

01:09:46.000 But most people, like you said, she's a maniac. 1.00

01:09:48.000 Most people aren't like her.

01:09:49.000 When they give you that range of motion machine the day after surgery, they say, you should be in this five hours a day.

01:09:55.000 She's in it five hours a day. 1.00

01:09:57.000 Every day.

01:09:58.000 And she was in the gym the next day rowing with her legs straight.

01:10:02.000 I mean, there's a level of just dedication and commitment to rehab that she had.

01:10:09.000 When I tore my ACL, I have a steam room in my house, and I would just get in there every day and do deep squats in the steam room and just move through the pain.

01:10:17.000 But because of that, I never had an issue with any range of motion whatsoever, where I've had two friends that have had ACL operations within the past year that had to go back and go under and get manipulated because they didn't have range of motion.

01:10:31.000 So they take you, put you out, and just take your knee and like, crack!

01:10:35.000 Because you just can't handle the pain.

01:10:37.000 Right.

01:10:37.000 That's all it is.

01:10:39.000 But in my opinion, take that pain early so that body, it never has a chance to lock up and all that scar tissue develop. 0.99

01:10:47.000 Just break that shit down real early. 0.99

01:10:49.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:10:49.000 Well, I was, like I said, I tore my MCL completely gone off the top of the bone last year, five weeks before my MMA fight, my MMA debut, five weeks. 0.99

01:10:58.000 Tore it off the bone.

01:11:00.000 Yeah.

01:11:00.000 It was like, I go in and the doctor's like, listen man, I don't want to scare you, but this is probably the worst MCL injury I've ever seen.

01:11:06.000 Oh, you don't want to scare me.

01:11:07.000 Yeah.

01:11:09.000 Shout out to Dr. Donnelly.

01:11:10.000 Dr. Donnelly.

01:11:13.000 But, it's gone.

01:11:14.000 It's gonna hurt, but, you know, it's gone.

01:11:17.000 What does that mean it's gone?

01:11:18.000 He said it's gone.

01:11:19.000 Like, you can start training.

01:11:22.000 He's like...

01:11:23.000 This is the way he explains.

01:11:24.000 He's like, listen, you might not be able to fight in five weeks.

01:11:26.000 I don't know.

01:11:27.000 I'm not sure.

01:11:28.000 I wouldn't recommend surgery because you're an athlete.

01:11:31.000 He wouldn't recommend surgery because you're an athlete?

01:11:33.000 That's what he said.

01:11:34.000 What does that mean?

01:11:35.000 I don't know.

01:11:35.000 He's like, you should start doing PT. Normally, I don't recommend this until two weeks after the injury.

01:11:41.000 But he didn't explain why he wouldn't recommend surgery because you're an athlete?

01:11:44.000 Because he would put me out for six months.

01:11:47.000 But it would heal it 100%.

01:11:48.000 Is that the idea?

01:11:49.000 Yeah.

01:11:50.000 But because you're an active athlete?

01:11:52.000 No.

01:11:53.000 What he's leaving out is he had so much stability already.

01:11:56.000 Yeah.

01:11:58.000 48 hours later, it looks pretty good considering you tore it completely off the bone.

01:12:03.000 Other than the MRI, you wouldn't know that the MCL was gone.

01:12:07.000 Okay, so now when it's torn off the bone, explain what happens.

01:12:10.000 Can you?

01:12:11.000 So it was on top of the bone?

01:12:14.000 So the MCL is on the outside?

01:12:16.000 Or is that the LCL? Inside.

01:12:18.000 So it's on the inside and it's separated from the bone.

01:12:22.000 So how does it heal?

01:12:25.000 How did it heal?

01:12:26.000 What he said is because it's on top of the bone, you have much, much less stability.

01:12:31.000 Here we get a look at it.

01:12:32.000 Yeah.

01:12:33.000 So there's the MCL. So it tore off the bone.

01:12:36.000 Yeah.

01:12:37.000 Right on the top, he said.

01:12:38.000 Huh.

01:12:39.000 There.

01:12:39.000 So it ripped off?

01:12:41.000 Completely, yeah.

01:12:42.000 The whole thing?

01:12:42.000 Grappling, yeah.

01:12:43.000 Gone.

01:12:44.000 So the whole thing's gone?

01:12:45.000 Yeah.

01:12:45.000 So there's no MCL? Nope.

01:12:47.000 So you don't have an MCL right now?

01:12:49.000 No.

01:12:49.000 I don't know.

01:12:50.000 I'm fine.

01:12:51.000 You don't know.

01:12:53.000 He doesn't have an MCL right now.

01:12:55.000 But all the other stuff and the muscles keep it intact.

01:12:58.000 Yeah.

01:12:59.000 Absolutely.

01:12:59.000 So what he said is...

01:13:00.000 Man, but did you think that for long-term stability, for your long-term career, it would probably be a good idea to have an MCL? I don't know.

01:13:07.000 I haven't had a problem with it, man.

01:13:08.000 I fought three different combat sports last year.

01:13:11.000 It's not bothering you at all.

01:13:12.000 It hasn't bothered me.

01:13:12.000 I was running, doing full sprints two and a half weeks later after it happened.

01:13:17.000 Wow.

01:13:18.000 He saw me walking.

01:13:20.000 He's like, where's your brace, man?

01:13:21.000 I was like, oh, it's in the car.

01:13:23.000 I don't need it anymore.

01:13:23.000 It hurts.

01:13:24.000 It kind of pinches the knee.

01:13:26.000 He's like, what do you mean?

01:13:27.000 I was like, oh, I just got cleared to run.

01:13:29.000 So he told me right as it happened.

01:13:31.000 He's like, listen, I told him the situation.

01:13:33.000 I was like, I have a fight in five weeks.

01:13:35.000 I need to get ready for it.

01:13:37.000 It's my debut is a big thing.

01:13:38.000 It's my MMA debut is a big thing.

01:13:41.000 He's like, I don't know, man.

01:13:43.000 It's kind of your call on this one.

01:13:44.000 You might be able to see how you feel type of thing.

01:13:47.000 I'll allow you to do PT starting tomorrow.

01:13:50.000 So what I did, I was doing PT and I was doing cryotherapy twice a day, every day.

01:13:54.000 So I was keeping the swelling down and trying to strengthen the leg at the same time.

01:13:58.000 But that MCL, it's not a partial tear.

01:14:00.000 It's a full tear?

01:14:01.000 No, full tear.

01:14:01.000 Gone.

01:14:02.000 He told me, there's nothing you can do about it.

01:14:05.000 It's gone.

01:14:05.000 It's going to hurt.

01:14:07.000 So here it is right here.

01:14:08.000 Yeah.

01:14:08.000 So it's a grade three tear.

01:14:10.000 Yeah.

01:14:12.000 Gone.

01:14:13.000 Gone.

01:14:13.000 So you don't have that thing there.

01:14:15.000 And they probably can't even replace it at this point.

01:14:18.000 Unless they use some sort of a cadaver one.

01:14:20.000 And then you'd be out for six months.

01:14:22.000 Yeah.

01:14:22.000 And he fought five times since.

01:14:24.000 You fuck everything about that, bro. 0.99

01:14:27.000 He was like, dude, to these days, you changed my perception in MCLs completely. 1.00

01:14:33.000 Because he didn't believe it when I told him, I can run now.

01:14:36.000 Does he ever work with athletes?

01:14:38.000 That's all he does.

01:14:39.000 He used to be the A's doctor.

01:14:40.000 That's all he does.

01:14:40.000 That seems so crazy.

01:14:43.000 Maybe you have an unusual knee.

01:14:44.000 I don't know.

01:14:45.000 I just ate a lot of maca powder.

01:14:48.000 Peruvian maca.

01:14:49.000 It's that maca powder and that camu camu powder.

01:14:52.000 That was it, man.

01:14:52.000 That is insane.

01:14:54.000 You don't need that.

01:14:55.000 I committed a lot to my rehab, though.

01:14:59.000 Like I said, I was doing twice a day, doing cryotherapy, trying to do everything I possibly could to fight.

01:15:05.000 I'll also say that you get a lot of bad raps with CrossFit.

01:15:10.000 Listen, it doesn't matter what it is.

01:15:11.000 It could be spin, it could be CrossFit, it could be Taekwondo.

01:15:15.000 There's good CrossFit.

01:15:16.000 There's bad CrossFit.

01:15:17.000 There's good Taekwondo.

01:15:18.000 There's bad Taekwondo.

01:15:19.000 At the end of the day, this kid had been doing general physical preparedness for years.

01:15:26.000 He's in phenomenal shape.

01:15:28.000 Everything that he does, the stability in his legs.

01:15:32.000 I gave him a stability test after he hurt his knee, and I'm like, I think it's still there.

01:15:38.000 I said, go get an MRI. Be sure.

01:15:39.000 But there was no movement in his leg whatsoever because he's so strong.

01:15:45.000 That's pretty crazy and pretty fortunate, right?

01:15:47.000 Yeah, and I was lucky.

01:15:48.000 I was definitely lucky.

01:15:49.000 He still doesn't believe it to this day that it happened.

01:15:54.000 So what else do you do in terms of recuperative?

01:15:57.000 You said you did cryotherapy.

01:15:58.000 Do you do sauna work at all?

01:16:00.000 I like the infrared sauna.

01:16:02.000 But I just started doing that recently.

01:16:04.000 I was just doing a lot of the cryotherapy.

01:16:06.000 I don't know if there's any benefit to infrared.

01:16:08.000 Is there?

01:16:09.000 I just know that your body needs to heat up.

01:16:12.000 That's all it is.

01:16:12.000 Is there a benefit to using infrared as opposed to a regular sauna?

01:16:16.000 Again, I mean, there are 10,000 people that were probably screaming that we gave creatine a shot out.

01:16:22.000 And I'm sure there are people that are going to say infrared is benefit and infrared kills you.

01:16:26.000 But I do believe that, you know, again, hot cold therapy works.

01:16:31.000 And getting your body hot and, you know, getting your body cool and manipulating your metabolism is something that needs to be done and should be done.

01:16:40.000 Yeah, well, it's heat shock proteins and cold shock proteins that reduce inflammation.

01:16:44.000 There's a lot of studies on that, but one of the more interesting studies is on sauna use and the fact that this reduction of inflammation has led to a 40% reduction in overall cause mortality.

01:16:59.000 Meaning, an all-cause mortality means strokes, heart attacks, cancer, 40% reduction over a long study that they did.

01:17:08.000 And I think they were doing it four times a week for 20 minutes a day. 0.98

01:17:12.000 It's fucking crazy. 0.99

01:17:14.000 Reduction of inflammation. 0.98

01:17:16.000 Inflammation is the number one enemy.

01:17:18.000 It's the enemy of your health.

01:17:20.000 It's the cause of so many diseases and ailments.

01:17:23.000 And if you can do something to mitigate that, whether it's cryotherapy or sauna work.

01:17:29.000 And then cryotherapy gets a bad rap, too, because there's a lot of unfounded claims. 0.98

01:17:34.000 You go to some of those more unscrupulous cryotherapy websites, and they're basically making shit up. 0.99

01:17:41.000 They bash it. 0.99

01:17:42.000 Well, I mean, the ones that are talking good about it, the ones that are selling it, they're talking about how much fat you lose and all this different stuff.

01:17:48.000 Like, look, it reduces inflammation.

01:17:50.000 That's what it does.

01:17:51.000 It's really good for that.

01:17:52.000 You feel good after it.

01:17:53.000 Yeah.

01:17:53.000 Well, if you're training on a regular basis, you're an athlete, that inflammation can be detrimental.

01:17:59.000 And that's just all it is.

01:18:00.000 The more that you can do and do it in all these different ways with diet and exercise and sleep and all these different, they all compound.

01:18:09.000 Yeah.

01:18:09.000 For me, my philosophy with the gym has always been, and again, it's very basic, and of course there's something like overtraining, but no such thing as overtraining just on recovery.

01:18:20.000 So we train really hard.

01:18:22.000 Everybody's doing two, three a days.

01:18:24.000 We do a lot of road work.

01:18:25.000 We do a lot of strength conditioning.

01:18:29.000 We don't get tired in fights, but sleeping is important.

01:18:33.000 Recovery, inflammation management, everything along those lines has to be part of it.

01:18:38.000 Or you're going to break your body down to a point where you can't perform.

01:18:41.000 Do fighters ever give you a hard time for being a little overweight?

01:18:44.000 No.

01:18:45.000 No?

01:18:46.000 Nope.

01:18:46.000 Never?

01:18:47.000 Never.

01:18:47.000 Gaston, you're missing out.

01:18:51.000 I don't want to be punished for no pat work.

01:18:55.000 No pat work.

01:18:56.000 You hear that?

01:18:57.000 No pat work.

01:19:00.000 But as a guy who understands health and wellness.

01:19:03.000 100%.

01:19:03.000 I'm the CrossFit affiliate holder.

01:19:05.000 And I don't do CrossFit.

01:19:07.000 I'm a human heavy bag.

01:19:08.000 It's what I do.

01:19:09.000 It's literally what I do.

01:19:10.000 I run a gym.

01:19:11.000 I get beat up for a living.

01:19:13.000 Hold pads. 0.77

01:19:15.000 I think there's nobody that holds pat, like literally my day can be Kevin Ross, Gaston, Gina Carano, Zoe LaFrasto, Eddie Abasolo, Diego Yamas, little Stephanie, who fucking hits harder as hard as Jenna, my giant kiwi, you know, and that's four hours of my life every night.

01:19:34.000 My body's adapted to that. 0.95

01:19:35.000 I'll sweat like a pig.

01:19:36.000 I won't drop a pound. 0.81

01:19:37.000 I don't eat that much.

01:19:39.000 I probably don't eat enough.

01:19:40.000 I just, I live my gym. 0.99

01:19:41.000 So absolutely, I'm gonna die of a heart attack or I'm gonna get my shit together. 0.96

01:19:45.000 You know, I don't think I'm morbidly obese, but I certainly don't look like a guy who knows about fitness, but I do. 0.99

01:19:50.000 It's just, you have to put yourself first.

01:19:53.000 And it's very difficult for me as a coach to put myself first.

01:19:57.000 I have to, if there's time for me to work out, There's time for me to get somebody else a fight.

01:20:03.000 It's got to be a diet thing.

01:20:06.000 There's no way.

01:20:07.000 He'll tell you.

01:20:07.000 Well, what do you eat?

01:20:09.000 In the morning, I'll have a shake.

01:20:11.000 In the afternoon, I'll have a meal.

01:20:15.000 What's that meal, though?

01:20:17.000 Random, generic meal?

01:20:19.000 No, no, no.

01:20:19.000 Like a prepaid meal.

01:20:20.000 Like an out-of-the-cave meal, his food sponsor.

01:20:24.000 It's a matter of probably not eating enough and not working out doing something that my body's not used to.

01:20:33.000 I would be honest.

01:20:34.000 I would.

01:20:35.000 Trust me.

01:20:36.000 I live with a physical specimen that knows everything I eat.

01:20:40.000 I don't eat enough.

01:20:43.000 That doesn't make any sense.

01:20:44.000 I'm telling you.

01:20:45.000 But that doesn't make any sense.

01:20:48.000 Scientifically, it doesn't make any sense.

01:20:49.000 I guarantee you I take in less than 2,500 calories a day.

01:20:53.000 Guarantee you.

01:20:55.000 Huh.

01:20:55.000 You should go to a doctor.

01:20:57.000 That doesn't make sense.

01:20:58.000 I would need time for that.

01:21:00.000 You don't have time to go to a doctor.

01:21:01.000 I live in my gym.

01:21:02.000 I don't.

01:21:03.000 And again, it sounds like excuses, but literally...

01:21:05.000 Well, it could be a thyroid issue or something.

01:21:07.000 Could be.

01:21:07.000 I mean, it seems like...

01:21:08.000 Well, is this on TV? Because you're making it sound like I'm living a 600-pound life, Joe.

01:21:12.000 No.

01:21:12.000 It's not exactly that.

01:21:13.000 I'm just saying.

01:21:13.000 I mean, we're talking about health and wellness, and this is the elephant in the room.

01:21:17.000 Not...

01:21:17.000 Aw.

01:21:18.000 Sorry.

01:21:19.000 Aw. 1.00

01:21:19.000 What a dick kick. 1.00

01:21:21.000 It's a fucking statement. 1.00

01:21:23.000 It's a saying. 0.99

01:21:25.000 No, I mean, because you are such a talented coach and you know so much about health and fitness that, you know, that's a thing.

01:21:35.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:21:36.000 100%.

01:21:37.000 You know, for fighting, I think it's – Kevin will give me grief, you know, but he's really the only one that gets away with it.

01:21:44.000 Well, Kevin's a hummingbird, right?

01:21:45.000 He can't keep weight on.

01:21:47.000 No, exactly.

01:21:48.000 Exactly.

01:21:49.000 But no, so for me, it's just a matter of just making time.

01:21:52.000 And I just, I don't make time for myself.

01:21:55.000 I just don't.

01:21:55.000 Well, that's probably why you're such a good coach, too.

01:21:58.000 The obsession that a coach has, it's such a different obsession.

01:22:02.000 The obsession that a coach has versus the obsession that a fighter has.

01:22:05.000 I mean, it's a completely different focus.

01:22:08.000 It's an outward focus instead of an inward focus.

01:22:10.000 And my model is totally different.

01:22:12.000 I don't think we've ever talked about it.

01:22:13.000 I've never taken a dime from a professional fighter.

01:22:16.000 Ever.

01:22:17.000 You don't get paid at all?

01:22:19.000 Nope.

01:22:20.000 So you make a living off the CrossFit gym?

01:22:22.000 Off of the gym.

01:22:22.000 Not just the CrossFit gym.

01:22:23.000 Gym memberships?

01:22:25.000 That's it.

01:22:25.000 In my entire life, Alexis fought Ronda.

01:22:29.000 This kid's got 50 fights.

01:22:30.000 Kevin, run down the list.

01:22:32.000 I've never taken a penny from a professional fight.

01:22:34.000 You have to be completely unique in that.

01:22:36.000 I mean, I don't think there's anybody else.

01:22:39.000 I've never heard of that before.

01:22:41.000 No.

01:22:41.000 For me, it would be like if the Golden State Warriors paid the coach directly.

01:22:48.000 Ah, interesting.

01:22:50.000 Who's running the asylum then?

01:22:53.000 That's an interesting way to look at it.

01:22:55.000 I don't work for him.

01:22:56.000 I work with him.

01:22:57.000 Right.

01:22:58.000 Pad work, travel.

01:23:00.000 Like, I won't even take per diem on fight week at the UFC. I mean, I'm going to take Lexis' fights twice a year. 0.89

01:23:07.000 She's got a kid. 0.95

01:23:08.000 I'm going to take her per diem money?

01:23:10.000 Right.

01:23:10.000 No.

01:23:11.000 I can't.

01:23:11.000 As a coach, when I advise him, this is a good fight for you, this is a bad fight for you, it can't be motivated by me making money.

01:23:22.000 For me, I can't do that.

01:23:24.000 Well, I know you put together this...

01:23:26.000 You're really well known as not just being a coach, but as training other coaches.

01:23:34.000 That coaching seminar that you do, you do it every year, right?

01:23:37.000 Twice a year.

01:23:38.000 Twice a year.

01:23:39.000 It is one of the most respected and appreciated seminar series in all of combat sports because it's one of the things that's missing.

01:23:49.000 How do you run a gym correctly?

01:23:50.000 Absolutely.

01:23:51.000 And the fact that you're willing to open up the door to all these other coaches and potential competitors.

01:23:58.000 And let them do that.

01:24:00.000 It just speaks volumes about your approach.

01:24:01.000 And anybody can come in.

01:24:03.000 So when I opened up and I started, I didn't know what I was doing.

01:24:07.000 You know, I was a fighter when I was younger.

01:24:09.000 And then I had to get a real job when my wife got pregnant and I got into a bunch of other stuff.

01:24:13.000 Dignitary protection and all that crazy stuff.

01:24:16.000 What protection?

01:24:17.000 Dignitary protection.

01:24:18.000 What is that?

01:24:20.000 Executive security, consulting.

01:24:22.000 Oh, so you're doing, like, bodyguard work for, like...

01:24:25.000 Yeah, and, well...

01:24:26.000 Dignitaries.

01:24:27.000 Yeah, dignitaries, so...

01:24:29.000 It's a weird word, right?

01:24:30.000 Yeah.

01:24:30.000 No, it's the actual word.

01:24:31.000 No, I know, but it's weird to hear.

01:24:34.000 Dignitary.

01:24:34.000 Dignitary protection.

01:24:35.000 So you're working with, like, foreign agents and stuff like that?

01:24:37.000 Yeah, I was on the presidential protection detail for Aristide in Haiti.

01:24:40.000 Oh, wow.

01:24:41.000 How weird is that?

01:24:43.000 I've had a couple of jobs.

01:24:44.000 If you Google me, you go like five pages back, you'll hear all that other stuff.

01:24:50.000 Because fighting wasn't paying when I was fighting.

01:24:52.000 My wife got pregnant.

01:24:53.000 My son's 21. I think I made 500 bucks, the most ever one I fought.

01:24:58.000 And, you know, I had to get a real job.

01:25:00.000 So I was going to school, and I was going to be a cop.

01:25:03.000 And then I met a guy, Tony Scotti, the godfather of defensive tactics driving.

01:25:07.000 He let me in on a course with the State Department.

01:25:09.000 I impressed him, and he made some introductions.

01:25:11.000 And I became a State Department subcontractor and traveled the world.

01:25:15.000 You know, ran a company, one of the largest private security companies in the world, Steel Foundation.

01:25:20.000 I don't think they're around anymore, retired.

01:25:23.000 That's so interesting, because whenever I see a gym as big as yours, and I know how hard it is to run a gym, I always go, how did that happen?

01:25:30.000 How did that come together like that?

01:25:33.000 It's just so many gyms come and go, and even good ones.

01:25:37.000 Look, with MMA gyms, we lost the Black Zillions. 1.00

01:25:40.000 That's gone.

01:25:41.000 I don't know what's going on with Team Elevate in Denver.

01:25:46.000 That's where TJ was originally.

01:25:48.000 Yes.

01:25:48.000 And now he did his camp here.

01:25:50.000 Yeah.

01:25:51.000 Now they're at the...

01:25:53.000 What do they call it?

01:25:54.000 The training?

01:25:55.000 Training lab.

01:25:56.000 Yeah, RAIN, RE. Training lab.

01:25:59.000 Does it have anything to do with the old RAIN? No, no, no.

01:26:03.000 Mark is...

01:26:03.000 Where's Mark?

01:26:04.000 Mark Munoz?

01:26:05.000 Yeah, Mark Munoz is somewhere else now.

01:26:07.000 Here's how.

01:26:08.000 So I've got just about been open for nine years with CSA. We had zero members when we started.

01:26:13.000 I've got about 1,300.

01:26:14.000 So what was the motivation?

01:26:16.000 The motivation was that I spent...

01:26:20.000 It was always a passion.

01:26:21.000 I was doing martial arts when I was a child.

01:26:23.000 I was fighting.

01:26:24.000 I just wasn't making money doing it.

01:26:25.000 And then I got into that other life and did that for about 15 years.

01:26:31.000 And I was being paid to protect people that could afford it but maybe didn't deserve it for a very long time.

01:26:38.000 And unfortunately, that's the way it works.

01:26:39.000 Because if you can afford it, you probably don't deserve it.

01:26:42.000 That's a funny way of looking at it.

01:26:44.000 It's a true way of looking at it, because I was doing it at the highest level.

01:26:48.000 I wasn't doing security work at the Kids' Choice Awards standing...

01:26:53.000 Right, right next to Jim Carrey.

01:26:54.000 Yeah, for two hours saying I'm Jim Carrey's bodyguard.

01:26:58.000 So it's one of those things where I saw it at the very highest level, and it just turned me off after a while.

01:27:06.000 You know, you're being a babysitter to people who have money.

01:27:10.000 Even with the biggest threats, you know, from Iraq, Afghanistan, Haiti, run down the list. 0.88

01:27:16.000 It wasn't about helping people.

01:27:18.000 I always wanted to help people.

01:27:19.000 Yeah, I get it.

01:27:20.000 When I opened the gym, that was the goal, was to help people.

01:27:24.000 And it turned into that gym.

01:27:27.000 And this is why I feel that our gym model is successful, is because tonight at 530 during a boxing class, My professional fighters are going to be in class with everyone else.

01:27:38.000 There's no pro team only practice.

01:27:42.000 Everybody trains together.

01:27:44.000 Everybody works together.

01:27:45.000 The model is for people.

01:27:47.000 You want to get in shape?

01:27:48.000 Wonderful.

01:27:49.000 You're going to get in shape.

01:27:50.000 You want to have stress relief?

01:27:51.000 Wonderful.

01:27:52.000 You want to become a fighter?

01:27:53.000 Wonderful.

01:27:53.000 I don't have a fight team practice tryout or...

01:27:56.000 Any of that.

01:27:57.000 You come to the gym.

01:27:58.000 You put in the work.

01:27:59.000 You support the team.

01:27:59.000 You train side by side with world champions.

01:28:01.000 You get better.

01:28:02.000 You have a good time.

01:28:02.000 It's a huge family gym.

01:28:04.000 It's a huge family environment.

01:28:07.000 And the mixture of the self-defense and the fighting and the fitness, one doesn't need the other.

01:28:13.000 So unlike like an AKA, and I love Javi, but the gym is about the fighters.

01:28:18.000 And if fighters lose, people go out the back door.

01:28:21.000 Right.

01:28:22.000 For me, I can have a fight or lose, my membership's not going to matter.

01:28:25.000 My people are still going to come, they're still going to train, they're still going to support, they're still going to buy tickets.

01:28:29.000 And that's been the recipe.

01:28:30.000 And because the gym is that way, it's allowed me to have this model where I don't charge pro fighters.

01:28:37.000 So when you opened, that is really incredible and very, very unique.

01:28:41.000 But when you opened, like, how'd you get people to go?

01:28:45.000 Well, so what I would say, I'm going to sound full of myself here.

01:28:48.000 I'm just, I'm very good at it.

01:28:50.000 Right, but I'm saying, like, if you're Ernesto Hoost and you open up a gym, everybody's going to go, hey, I want to go train with Mr. Perfect.

01:28:55.000 That's Ernesto Hoost.

01:28:56.000 You know, for a guy like you to have such a massive, massive gym and become one of the most respected gyms in the world, like, it's a crazy path.

01:29:08.000 So, for me, I think part of it was just...

01:29:11.000 I'm going to use a generic term, hustle.

01:29:15.000 You look at tie boxing coaches, like you said, they just aren't very...

01:29:18.000 The ties here in America, they don't take it seriously.

01:29:23.000 It's not the stadium.

01:29:25.000 If you're not in the stadium, they don't care.

01:29:27.000 Other than John Sinan...

01:29:29.000 Name a Thai coach that's coaching high-level fighters Thai boxing.

01:29:33.000 They're just not.

01:29:34.000 They're retired.

01:29:34.000 It's boring.

01:29:35.000 It's not real.

01:29:36.000 It's fun.

01:29:37.000 It's not a real thing.

01:29:39.000 For me, I treated it like a real thing, and I hustled my ass off, and I made connections, and I worked. 0.95

01:29:44.000 And the reason that I could get so many people online is because I sold fucking tickets, because I knew how the game was played. 0.97

01:29:49.000 I learned how to work with the judges. 0.97

01:29:51.000 I knew who was judging fights, and how to score, and how to deal.

01:29:55.000 So all of that, whereas a lot of coaches don't ever kind of get out of their own way.

01:30:01.000 They just – they're so in their mantra of, you know, well, I'm really good at what I do.

01:30:06.000 And, you know, this is traditional Thai boxing and this is how it should be scored.

01:30:10.000 No, I'm – every day – We've always adjusted.

01:30:13.000 We've had fights like, hey, you gotta box, man.

01:30:16.000 There's boxing judges out there. 0.78

01:30:17.000 You got a box.

01:30:18.000 Whereas maybe like we were in L.A., it's like, oh, you know, the judges are more like ties, so you can do that.

01:30:25.000 You can do your thing, you know.

01:30:26.000 So we've always adjusted.

01:30:27.000 Yeah, so I think part of it is just its drive, its hustle, and its determination to be successful.

01:30:34.000 And that's, you know, for me, you know, that's what I have focused on with the gym, and it's grown.

01:30:40.000 And like I said, we started out one location, we had It was 3,500 square feet.

01:30:44.000 I had zero students.

01:30:46.000 And in three years, we had 400. That's crazy.

01:30:50.000 It's hard to get 100 students.

01:30:52.000 Especially in Jiu-Jitsu schools.

01:30:54.000 Jiu-Jitsu schools, that's the number.

01:30:57.000 That's the magical number.

01:30:58.000 You have 100 students.

01:30:59.000 It's like, oh, now you're making X amount per month because you had 100 people paying X amount per month.

01:31:04.000 You can actually make a living.

01:31:05.000 It's the diversity, right?

01:31:07.000 So what happens is that when people find out that maybe MMA isn't for them, They can go into my fitness program.

01:31:13.000 When people find out that maybe fitness isn't for them, they can go into my Krav Maga program.

01:31:17.000 They find out that Krav isn't for them. 0.96

01:31:19.000 And the bottom line is also, I don't treat it like any kind of bullshit either. 0.75

01:31:22.000 You have a Krav Maga program as well? 0.96

01:31:24.000 I do.

01:31:24.000 I have a huge Krav Maga program.

01:31:25.000 Huge Krav Maga program.

01:31:26.000 And it's the same thing as like, oh, Krav Maga.

01:31:29.000 Listen, all Krav Maga is, is combat sports.

01:31:32.000 Yeah, I'm a fan of Krav Maga.

01:31:34.000 What Krav Maga is is martial arts.

01:31:36.000 That's it.

01:31:36.000 It's like they've just developed self-defense scenarios and they use real martial arts.

01:31:41.000 That's it.

01:31:41.000 Real Muay Thai, real karate, real judo.

01:31:44.000 And we do it even more combat sports.

01:31:47.000 All of my Kravists have to go through grappling classes.

01:31:49.000 All the Kravists have to learn our combos. 1.00

01:31:51.000 They call themselves Kravists? 0.64

01:31:52.000 That's the term, Kravist. 0.86

01:31:54.000 It's Kravist.

01:31:56.000 Do you have any Kravist dignitaries?

01:31:58.000 No, I don't.

01:32:00.000 But I have taught.

01:32:02.000 I did once teach Krav Maga to the Bolivian Secret Service.

01:32:07.000 Really?

01:32:07.000 Yeah.

01:32:08.000 Wow.

01:32:08.000 That's good.

01:32:09.000 I didn't even know the story.

01:32:10.000 I saw the Garden Coke.

01:32:12.000 Yeah, exactly. 1.00

01:32:16.000 Some narco shit. 1.00

01:32:20.000 That's why. 1.00

01:32:21.000 You know, I guarantee you, dude, listen to this podcast, there's going to be a bunch of pro fighters that, this motherfucker just said he doesn't charge? 0.99

01:32:26.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:32:28.000 Wait, what's going on?

01:32:29.000 I need to learn some Muay Thai in California.

01:32:31.000 I'm paying $250 a month for my gym.

01:32:34.000 What is going on?

01:32:35.000 Well, yeah, I run down the list and the percentage of the purse and then the sponsorships and all that.

01:32:41.000 Pad work.

01:32:42.000 I remember one time with this gym, I heard a friend from a gym that they were paying $300 a month.

01:32:49.000 I grew up with him, so I don't know that.

01:32:53.000 I was like, Kieran, you wouldn't believe what's going on over there, man.

01:32:56.000 People are paying!

01:32:57.000 They're robbing them!

01:32:59.000 They have to pay money for work!

01:33:03.000 That's how it is.

01:33:06.000 Very selfless of you.

01:33:07.000 Very impressive.

01:33:08.000 I'm very impressed by that.

01:33:10.000 I think that's amazing.

01:33:11.000 I try.

01:33:12.000 Look, you get a lot of kudos in the combat sports world, but I think that might be one where you deserve the most.

01:33:18.000 That's very, very impressive.

01:33:20.000 That's incredible.

01:33:21.000 And I love these kids.

01:33:22.000 I mean, this is my son.

01:33:23.000 You do.

01:33:24.000 And I do.

01:33:24.000 And Zoila, that's my daughter.

01:33:26.000 And Kevin, that's my son.

01:33:27.000 And Stephanie. 0.93

01:33:27.000 And so, you know, it becomes a family. 0.93

01:33:30.000 And that's the thing.

01:33:30.000 It's like, these people, I get all the time, it's like, oh, what do I need to do to train at CSA? You need to move there.

01:33:35.000 Do you have dorms?

01:33:36.000 Nope.

01:33:37.000 I don't have dorms.

01:33:38.000 You want to train with me, you've got to move here.

01:33:40.000 And you've got to want it.

01:33:41.000 Dorms is when it gets sketchy.

01:33:43.000 You've got a bunch of weird dudes living in your gym.

01:33:45.000 Yeah.

01:33:45.000 No bueno.

01:33:47.000 But you've got to really, really, really want to train with me.

01:33:52.000 Because you've got to figure out where to live, you've got to figure out what to do.

01:33:55.000 Like, Diego Lamas, glory kickboxing fighter, he showed up one day.

01:33:59.000 He messaged Kevin one time, I think, from what I hear.

01:34:02.000 And Kevin doesn't reply to that.

01:34:05.000 I don't know.

01:34:05.000 He hasn't replied to just anybody like that.

01:34:08.000 They were talking a little bit.

01:34:09.000 He's like, oh yeah, you should come down for a couple weeks, whatever.

01:34:12.000 Shows up and he's like, hey, I just moved here to the doors from Mexico. 0.97

01:34:15.000 Brought his wife.

01:34:16.000 Shut down his gym.

01:34:18.000 He's like, I just moved here.

01:34:20.000 You told me I had to move here, so here I am.

01:34:23.000 He's part of the team now.

01:34:25.000 What does that feel like to you?

01:34:27.000 Because that's heavy responsibility, man.

01:34:29.000 Listen, man.

01:34:30.000 My philosophy is this.

01:34:32.000 When a fighter wins, they did their job.

01:34:33.000 When a fighter loses, I didn't.

01:34:36.000 And it's just that simple.

01:34:37.000 It's literally that simple.

01:34:40.000 It's not that simple because they could have fought a better fighter and you couldn't have helped them.

01:34:44.000 No, to me.

01:34:44.000 So right now.

01:34:45.000 Okay, you're training a guy who fights Anderson Silva.

01:34:47.000 No, I'll use Alexis. 0.99

01:34:49.000 Alexis fought Caitlyn.

01:34:50.000 And I thought, bottom line, I think Alexis won that fight. 0.92

01:34:54.000 I can see why she didn't.

01:34:55.000 She wears her fights on her face like Zoila does.

01:34:58.000 Literally, if you blow at Alexis, she swells up. 0.76

01:35:01.000 It was a very close fight.

01:35:03.000 Exactly.

01:35:04.000 But if you look at her the wrong way, she's going to swell up. 0.76

01:35:08.000 And I know that.

01:35:09.000 So for me...

01:35:11.000 The game plan was very simple, very specific.

01:35:14.000 There were pieces of the game plan that worked.

01:35:17.000 The right leg kick moved her where we needed to move her. 1.00

01:35:19.000 The left body kick was also part of the game plan to take away what we needed.

01:35:23.000 Alexis wasn't throwing it. 0.99

01:35:24.000 Alexis didn't throw it. 1.00

01:35:26.000 Whose fault is that?

01:35:27.000 Mine or Alexis's?

01:35:28.000 In my mind, it's my fault.

01:35:29.000 Because I didn't see that that wasn't going to happen.

01:35:32.000 She's thrown in other fights. 1.00

01:35:33.000 So what did I do wrong?

01:35:34.000 How did I miss that half of the game plan that would have won this fight very easily, in my opinion, 100%, didn't happen?

01:35:43.000 I can sit back and be mad at the fighter, or I can sit back and say, you missed this in training.

01:35:48.000 You need to figure out how to avoid this.

01:35:50.000 You need to learn from it.

01:35:51.000 And that's what I do every single fight.

01:35:54.000 When you're watching fights and you're at home and you see, like, a guy...

01:35:59.000 One of the things that drives me nuts when I'm doing commentary, like see a guy start to soften some dude up with leg kicks, starts to get that leg buckling a little bit, and then inexplicably they stop.

01:36:10.000 They stop throwing it.

01:36:11.000 But there's a reason they stop throwing it.

01:36:13.000 They're not conditioning their shin, and they're hurting themselves.

01:36:17.000 It could be.

01:36:18.000 Or it could be they hurt him with a right hand, and they got punch-happy.

01:36:22.000 Most...

01:36:23.000 That too.

01:36:23.000 But most of the time when I see people stop kicking on a leg kick that works, it's because they're feeling it in their leg too because they don't condition their shins properly.

01:36:31.000 I've talked to people about it.

01:36:33.000 So for me, you're absolutely right.

01:36:34.000 You rock somebody with the right hand, you go headhunting 100%.

01:36:37.000 But a lot of the time, people do not condition their legs.

01:36:41.000 They don't.

01:36:42.000 Now you've got everybody going after the calf kick.

01:36:44.000 And if you don't know how to throw a calf kick, and if you don't know how to deal with...

01:36:47.000 If you go after a calf kick, invariably, you're going to catch shin a lot of the time.

01:36:53.000 So if you're not conditioned in your leg, okay, you land a couple calf kicks.

01:36:58.000 But when you talk about Mighty Mouse, he landed a beautiful calf kick in that first round.

01:37:02.000 That's what hurt Henry.

01:37:03.000 But he caught some shin, too.

01:37:05.000 And I guarantee you that didn't help his...

01:37:07.000 He broke his foot.

01:37:07.000 That didn't help?

01:37:08.000 Yeah.

01:37:08.000 Mighty Mouse broke his foot in that fight.

01:37:10.000 He's got videos of it on right now.

01:37:11.000 I saw it.

01:37:12.000 It was like a fat guy's foot.

01:37:14.000 And that's very easy to do if you know how to check.

01:37:18.000 Literally, if you check properly...

01:37:20.000 I'm not scared of calf kicks at all.

01:37:23.000 I know I'm just going to check it.

01:37:24.000 I might eat one.

01:37:26.000 Like Matt Schnell, for example, he comes down and he trains with us.

01:37:28.000 He loves to throw calf kicks, and I'm like...

01:37:30.000 All right, throw it. 0.90

01:37:31.000 I'm just going to check it every time and I'll counter properly.

01:37:35.000 If you know how to check a leg kick and you know how to check a calf kick, you're going to hurt the person doing it 100% of the time.

01:37:41.000 What do you recommend for shin conditioning?

01:37:44.000 Nothing crazy.

01:37:46.000 Progressive, dense contact.

01:37:49.000 So starting with a heavy bag and then a more densely packed heavy bag and then eventually you can get to a sandbag.

01:37:55.000 Yeah.

01:37:56.000 And that's what we do.

01:37:58.000 We've got three different levels of bag in the gym.

01:38:00.000 And we've got standard bag, densely packed bag, and then sandbag.

01:38:05.000 Sandbag, huh? 0.99

01:38:07.000 Damn, who makes a sandbag? 1.00

01:38:08.000 Nobody does. 1.00

01:38:09.000 You make it.

01:38:10.000 Kevin made ours.

01:38:11.000 Kevin made ours, yeah.

01:38:12.000 So you just go to the hardware store?

01:38:14.000 Yeah, no kicking sticks or anything like that.

01:38:16.000 No, no, no, no.

01:38:17.000 So what kind of liner do you use to fill up with sand?

01:38:22.000 So it's a standard.

01:38:23.000 So you can put a liner in, or if you've got a really good bag, then it'll be okay.

01:38:28.000 But you put in basically a garbage bag, a well-done garbage bag.

01:38:32.000 Like one of them lawn bags, contractor bags.

01:38:34.000 And then you don't want to go just sand.

01:38:36.000 It's still stuffing and sand.

01:38:40.000 Stuffing and sand.

01:38:41.000 Stuffing and sand.

01:38:42.000 And then you build from there.

01:38:43.000 And then it'll be denser at the bottom, and then you start kicking higher, and then you work your way down the bag.

01:38:49.000 And it's not even about cracking it.

01:38:50.000 It's just about conditioning the shin as evenly as possible.

01:38:55.000 Just deadening it up and putting those little calcium deposits all over it.

01:38:58.000 Absolutely.

01:38:58.000 As evenly as possible.

01:38:59.000 That's why I'm not a big fan of the rolling and the hitting, because all you're doing is you're creating these little micro breaks and fractures in variable spots.

01:39:09.000 It's not...

01:39:10.000 Spreading across the shin the same way when you have a kicking target like a bag.

01:39:14.000 It also seems like if you're throwing kicks, it's gonna be a more realistic application.

01:39:19.000 You know, it's like throwing kicks on something and hardening your shins up just seems...

01:39:24.000 I've seen guys do that with like Coke bottles, you know, I've seen all that stuff.

01:39:27.000 It just doesn't...

01:39:28.000 No one ever...

01:39:29.000 Doesn't work.

01:39:29.000 I've never done that in my life.

01:39:31.000 Really?

01:39:31.000 Yeah.

01:39:32.000 But you use that sandbag a lot?

01:39:33.000 I use the sandbag, yeah.

01:39:34.000 How often do you use it?

01:39:37.000 I used to even more so when I have Muay Thai or kickboxing fights coming out, but I'll use it every day.

01:39:43.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:39:44.000 It doesn't have to be something that's hours and hours at a time.

01:39:48.000 It's amazing how much that low calf kick has made its way into MMA and how much it changes fights.

01:39:53.000 I believe Benson Henderson was the first one to use it back then when he was a champion, or even before that.

01:39:59.000 In Thai boxing, it's considered kind of dirty.

01:40:02.000 Really?

01:40:02.000 Yeah.

01:40:03.000 That's why you don't see it as much in Thai boxing.

01:40:04.000 It's considered dirty?

01:40:05.000 It's a little dirty, yeah.

01:40:06.000 Wow!

01:40:08.000 That's why you don't see it that much.

01:40:09.000 It's like, you know, it's low-hanging fruit.

01:40:11.000 It's cheap.

01:40:13.000 But it works.

01:40:14.000 Absolutely.

01:40:15.000 Why would it be...

01:40:16.000 It's weird how people...

01:40:18.000 Well, the Thai boxing scoring is different in Thailand than in here.

01:40:21.000 Well, you know, for the longest time in jiu-jitsu, leg locks were dirty.

01:40:25.000 People would go crazy if you went for a leg lock.

01:40:27.000 They would boo until you released it.

01:40:29.000 People would scream at you.

01:40:30.000 Coaches would say, just let it go.

01:40:32.000 Just let it go.

01:40:32.000 Let the leg lock go.

01:40:34.000 Ricardo almost had that leg log in his fight, Ricardo Ramos.

01:40:38.000 It was deep.

01:40:39.000 The only thing is he tried to make that adjustment and go behind the armpit.

01:40:43.000 And the guy just got off.

01:40:45.000 He was doing it like they were grappling, which is a thing that people do do.

01:40:49.000 You forget that the guy can just stand up.

01:40:52.000 You think that he's going to stay engaged with you.

01:40:55.000 It's a common mistake that people do.

01:40:57.000 But he just made an adjustment and the guy he fought was good, man.

01:41:00.000 That was a close fight.

01:41:02.000 Real close fight.

01:41:03.000 Very good matchup.

01:41:04.000 Very good matchup.

01:41:05.000 There was a lot of those Saturday night.

01:41:08.000 There was a lot of really good matchups.

01:41:09.000 When was the last one in the prelims?

01:41:11.000 I was there at the fights.

01:41:12.000 Was it Moicano?

01:41:13.000 No, no.

01:41:14.000 The prelims, the prelims.

01:41:16.000 That was in the prelims?

01:41:17.000 No, no, that was in the main card.

01:41:18.000 Oh, okay.

01:41:19.000 Right.

01:41:20.000 That's right.

01:41:21.000 Yeah.

01:41:21.000 Yeah, that's right.

01:41:22.000 Cub Swanson.

01:41:23.000 Jesus Christ, Moikano looked good.

01:41:25.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:41:25.000 Holy shit. 1.00

01:41:26.000 Dropped him with a jab. 1.00

01:41:27.000 But he's a fucking real technician, man. 0.99

01:41:29.000 And he's big for featherweight. 0.99

01:41:32.000 Huge!

01:41:32.000 Yeah, for 45. He's like 5'11"?

01:41:34.000 Yeah, but looks big.

01:41:36.000 You know, when you're standing next to him, he looks like he's 170 pounds when he's inside the actual cage itself.

01:41:41.000 Yeah, he's a big dude.

01:41:42.000 He's just very technical, man.

01:41:45.000 Like, everything he does, there's no sloppiness to him.

01:41:48.000 Like, everything. 0.98

01:41:49.000 And then when he dropped him with a jab, I mean, it looked like he hit him with a fucking straight right hand on the button. 0.99

01:41:54.000 It's crazy. 0.99

01:41:55.000 That's Cub Swanson!

01:41:57.000 Cub was coming in at the same time too, but he's so long and he's, boom, stiff arm.

01:42:01.000 It was the way it snapped in there too.

01:42:05.000 It was just perfect, perfect timing.

01:42:06.000 And then to take Cub's back that quick and get him in that rear naked choke like that, like, wow.

01:42:11.000 Impressive.

01:42:12.000 Moikano's no joke.

01:42:13.000 Absolutely not.

01:42:14.000 The level of talent is so high right now.

01:42:17.000 It's really fascinating because there's guys that aren't even in the top 15 that look like world champions from 10 years ago.

01:42:24.000 It's really interesting.

01:42:26.000 Yeah, no, the adaption is...

01:42:28.000 I say it all the time.

01:42:29.000 Again, I'm known as a Muay Thai coach, but...

01:42:31.000 The best Muay Thai strikers don't have the best success in UFC striking.

01:42:38.000 The most decorated, best Muay Thai guys and gals, Joanna, you have to put her up there. 1.00

01:42:47.000 Valentina, you have to put her up there. 0.98

01:42:48.000 These are legit world champions, not somebody who went to Florida and won the IKF Classic or something like that.

01:42:55.000 But on the guy's side, you look at like the two best Muay Thai guys ever, you know, you look at Shane Campbell.

01:43:03.000 I don't know if you know Shane's background, but Shane Campbell literally was a world beater in Muay Thai from Canada.

01:43:09.000 His last fight with UFC got dropped with a body shot and got cut because he could never really sit down on his strikes.

01:43:15.000 Because he's always worried about the takedowns.

01:43:17.000 Exactly.

01:43:17.000 And then there's the little gloves as well.

01:43:19.000 Exactly.

01:43:19.000 Hakeem, you know.

01:43:21.000 Hakeem, world beater in Muay Thai.

01:43:23.000 His first fight out.

01:43:24.000 World champion.

01:43:25.000 Yeah.

01:43:25.000 His first fight out.

01:43:26.000 He got 20-some-odd seconds.

01:43:28.000 He got knocked out with little gloves.

01:43:29.000 Well, how about Gokhan Saki?

01:43:31.000 Exactly. 1.00

01:43:32.000 And Rountree's a bad motherfucker. 1.00

01:43:34.000 No taking away from Rountree and he hits hard. 0.99

01:43:36.000 But it's crazy watching Gokhan get cracked and knocked out with one shot.

01:43:40.000 It's like, wow!

01:43:41.000 Little Gloves definitely even out of the playing field.

01:43:44.000 You have to respect the Little Gloves and you have to respect the other influences in MMA. Okay?

01:43:51.000 And again, I'm probably one of the few coaches that'll fixate on losses and try to really, really learn from them.

01:43:59.000 You watched his second MMA fight where he lost, right?

01:44:03.000 Yes.

01:44:04.000 And he, in that moment, came out very slow-twitch.

01:44:09.000 He was very almost McGregor-esque.

01:44:12.000 He was going through a little phase that I didn't pick up on in camp.

01:44:15.000 And he comes out, and this kid that he's fighting is a karate kid.

01:44:18.000 Super talented kid, right?

01:44:20.000 And literally, the speed at which they were fighting, stylistically, was different.

01:44:26.000 He was in second gear, and this kid was in fifth gear.

01:44:30.000 Do you agree with this?

01:44:31.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:44:32.000 What was the motivation behind your changing of your style a little bit?

01:44:36.000 Like I said, I was going through a lot at that time.

01:44:39.000 Okay, right.

01:44:40.000 Divorced stuff?

01:44:41.000 Yeah.

01:44:42.000 I remember just walking out, I just wasn't there.

01:44:46.000 Focused.

01:44:47.000 Yeah.

01:44:47.000 Like I said, my last kickboxing fight, the fight before that, I just felt, even the spinning back elbow one, I just felt at home.

01:44:53.000 I was like, yeah, you can see me smiling.

01:44:55.000 Right.

01:44:56.000 Dude, that spinning back elbow might be the greatest spinning back elbow KO in the history of MMA. Thank you, man.

01:45:02.000 That shit was ridiculous. 1.00

01:45:04.000 We played it on this podcast at least five times. 1.00

01:45:06.000 He's like, you want to see a spinning elbow?

01:45:08.000 Watch this.

01:45:10.000 I heard you talking about it with Kevin Lee.

01:45:12.000 Dude, the smack! 1.00

01:45:15.000 When that elbow hit his jaw, you're like, here it is.

01:45:18.000 Watch here.

01:45:19.000 Oh! 0.60

01:45:20.000 Come on, man.

01:45:21.000 I mean, that's the greatest spinning elbow of all time.

01:45:26.000 I agree.

01:45:26.000 It just is.

01:45:27.000 I mean, it can't get any better.

01:45:29.000 And he's done that eight times.

01:45:31.000 He's done that eight times.

01:45:32.000 I'm not sure I'm landing it.

01:45:34.000 I'm talking about finishing fights with that elbow.

01:45:36.000 Oh, I know he has, but that's the best of all the ones he's ever landed.

01:45:40.000 In my opinion, that's the best way to land it.

01:45:42.000 That's the best way to land it when they're coming in.

01:45:45.000 The force of their punch.

01:45:47.000 Let me see that one more time.

01:45:48.000 You see, I slipped the jab at the same time.

01:45:51.000 Well, you threw that kick first.

01:45:53.000 He's coming in with the jab.

01:45:54.000 I slip it.

01:45:55.000 Oh my goodness.

01:45:56.000 He's not expecting it.

01:45:57.000 He's coming in with a strike and he's not expecting to get hit. 1.00

01:46:01.000 Dude, that is so ridiculous. 0.98

01:46:02.000 Yeah, but now everybody. 0.98

01:46:03.000 He literally changed Muay Thai in America.

01:46:06.000 He didn't invent that, but it was the first time anybody saw it.

01:46:09.000 And amateur tournaments now.

01:46:11.000 Like in California, you cannot throw a spinning elbow until after your fourth amateur fight because of him.

01:46:17.000 Wow.

01:46:17.000 Because it does so much damage.

01:46:22.000 It does so much damage.

01:46:24.000 And the way he throws it does damage.

01:46:26.000 Like if you see, like John is throwing it, like John Jones throws it, but he hits the forearms because he throws it horizontally.

01:46:32.000 As tall as John is, if John wants to finish people with that elbow, he needs to come down with it.

01:46:37.000 He needs to arc down and drop his weight.

01:46:39.000 Even if they're shelled, he'll split down the middle. 1.00

01:46:42.000 The angle at which he throws, if you're taller than him, he's going to come underneath.

01:46:45.000 And if you're shorter than him or the same height, he's going to come down.

01:46:47.000 I'll also throw it at the same time as I'm throwing a right hand, and I'll just go through.

01:46:51.000 So I'll throw it either way.

01:46:53.000 I'll go either way.

01:46:54.000 Yeah, he's knocked people out on both sides.

01:46:55.000 It's not just one side.

01:46:57.000 It's a very effective weapon.

01:46:59.000 I've always felt like the best people that transition from kickboxing to MMA are the really explosive ones, which is one of the reasons why Crow Cop... 0.98

01:47:08.000 He did so well in MMA, not just because he dedicated himself to it, which was a huge factor, but also because when you watch Krokop in K1, he was an exploder.

01:47:19.000 He would take pot shots at people.

01:47:22.000 Fast twitch. 0.99

01:47:23.000 Yeah, and he would have a naked kick or a naked punch. 0.99

01:47:25.000 He wasn't like a guy who was throwing a lot of technical stuff and setting things up.

01:47:30.000 He would whap!

01:47:31.000 Out of nowhere, throw full power, because he was so fast.

01:47:35.000 And that translates extremely well to MMA, in my opinion.

01:47:40.000 The pace of Muay Thai, it can be a little slower.

01:47:44.000 So when you're dealing with his fight, like I said, he's coming in relaxed and slow twitch and thinking timing and bouncing a little bit.

01:47:53.000 And this kid is a karate kid and he's immediately, like you said, flap. 0.73

01:47:57.000 You don't see it coming.

01:47:58.000 You get caught.

01:47:59.000 Right?

01:48:00.000 So that's where I think strikers...

01:48:02.000 Listen, and no disrespect to that kid.

01:48:04.000 I think that kid is one of the best...

01:48:06.000 One of the...

01:48:07.000 Brandon...

01:48:07.000 I can't remember his last name.

01:48:08.000 What's his name?

01:48:09.000 His name is Brandon...

01:48:11.000 I forget his last name.

01:48:13.000 You don't remember him?

01:48:14.000 No.

01:48:14.000 I can't remember his last name.

01:48:16.000 Most people, when they lose to a guy, that name's etched in their fucking head forever. 0.99

01:48:19.000 Nah. 1.00

01:48:20.000 You let it go?

01:48:20.000 You got to.

01:48:21.000 You got to let it go, man.

01:48:22.000 You got to.

01:48:23.000 I let it go, man.

01:48:23.000 But that kid, he's a talented kid.

01:48:25.000 I'll hunt you if you don't.

01:48:25.000 Yeah, we'll find his name.

01:48:27.000 What's his name, Jamie?

01:48:28.000 Just pull up Gaston's Wikipedia.

01:48:32.000 La Rocco.

01:48:33.000 There it is.

01:48:34.000 La Rocco.

01:48:34.000 Yeah, that kid is an uber-talented kid.

01:48:37.000 Yes, I was very impressed by that.

01:48:38.000 Absolutely.

01:48:39.000 And, you know, he might not have Gaston's look, he might not have some of what Gaston brings to the table, and he hasn't really caught on since.

01:48:46.000 Super-talented kid.

01:48:47.000 He wasn't disrespected in that fight.

01:48:49.000 He just wasn't...

01:48:51.000 There was no film on him.

01:48:53.000 We didn't know who he was.

01:48:54.000 His style was not anticipated. 0.99

01:48:56.000 And he came out super slow, and he got fucking caught. 0.99

01:48:59.000 And that's MMA. Do you train much with karate stylists, or...? 0.96

01:49:04.000 Not really.

01:49:05.000 Because it seems to me that when you have a Wonderboy Thompson style, there's something to that.

01:49:12.000 There's something to that that's very weird to deal with.

01:49:15.000 It's a different thing.

01:49:15.000 When people are unorthodox in general, it's just so hard to...

01:49:20.000 Raymond Daniels is another one.

01:49:22.000 It's hard to really get going with people like that.

01:49:25.000 Like Kieran was saying, I come from a background where a five round Muay Thai fight is different.

01:49:30.000 Normally, and he can agree with me, my first few fights, I take the first round off.

01:49:35.000 I'm just like, alright, let's get going.

01:49:36.000 Let's see what he's got.

01:49:37.000 Right.

01:49:38.000 Feel him out.

01:49:39.000 We got five rounds to work here.

01:49:41.000 Right.

01:49:41.000 That's where Kevin's had the most trouble with kickboxing is because he's used to five rounds.

01:49:45.000 And the first round is just kind of feel him out.

01:49:48.000 Right.

01:49:49.000 So as coaches, it's our job to change that.

01:49:52.000 I struggle with that a lot with my Thai guys, because again, I'll make like Zoila, I'll make Gaston. 1.00

01:49:59.000 I have these guys fight Muay Thai fights as well, because it's definitely going to help your striking, but if you fixate on that rhythm, that footwork, that timing in MMA, that's where you're going to have the most trouble.

01:50:11.000 So those karate stylists are going to give you trouble, and the wrestlers are going to give you trouble, because you're never going to be able to sit down on anything.

01:50:16.000 Well, Michael Venom Page is probably one of the most exciting guys in Bellator today.

01:50:20.000 His last fight?

01:50:21.000 Oh my god.

01:50:22.000 Not the boxing one.

01:50:23.000 No, the MMA fight. 0.98

01:50:24.000 He's a monster. 0.95

01:50:25.000 Oh my god. 1.00

01:50:26.000 He's a monster. 0.99

01:50:26.000 But it's that style. 0.99

01:50:28.000 It's that blitz.

01:50:29.000 Did you ever see him fight Raymond Daniels in point karate?

01:50:32.000 No, I didn't.

01:50:32.000 There's some videos of them fighting on...

01:50:34.000 It's crazy.

01:50:35.000 They're just sprinting at each other. 0.98

01:50:37.000 They're so fucking fast. 0.98

01:50:39.000 But I've said for a while that I think there's something really good to that. 0.99

01:50:44.000 That ability to blitz.

01:50:46.000 Especially when you're dealing with little gloves and MMA rules.

01:50:51.000 I just think that there's...

01:50:52.000 That's a really important skill that a lot of people don't have.

01:50:57.000 That ability to blitz.

01:50:58.000 And if you have that sort of slow first round tie style, here's the two of these guys.

01:51:03.000 Look at them.

01:51:04.000 I mean this is like fast twitch muscle fiber heaven.

01:51:07.000 I want to say this is...

01:51:09.000 Yeah, there it is.

01:51:10.000 Yeah, so seven years ago.

01:51:12.000 They were both so fast.

01:51:14.000 But they're trying to score points.

01:51:15.000 You know, this is such a different game.

01:51:17.000 You know, I did a little bit of this stuff when I was competing.

01:51:20.000 It's so different.

01:51:22.000 The range is so beautiful to watch.

01:51:24.000 Well, it's also they stop it with every strike.

01:51:27.000 Oh, they stop it?

01:51:28.000 Yep.

01:51:28.000 Every time you touch each other, they stop it.

01:51:30.000 and they score a point.

01:51:32.000 So it's super unrealistic in terms of an actual fight, and the thought process behind it is nonsense. 0.96

01:51:39.000 The thought process was that you should be able to kill somebody with one punch, and then all you have to do is touch them and then stop. 0.95

01:51:45.000 That could have killed a guy. 0.99

01:51:46.000 It's nonsense.

01:51:47.000 But the benefit to it is much like the benefit of learning Taekwondo early.

01:51:53.000 You learn Taekwondo early because you develop leg dexterity that you would never develop if you threw in leg kicks and punches and takedowns and all those other things.

01:52:02.000 It's very rare that someone goes through just a traditional martial arts or a traditional MMA background where you're just learning everything, takedowns, leg kicks, all those things.

01:52:11.000 And you ever develop kicks the way someone who's like a real high-level Taekwondo practitioner does.

01:52:17.000 But those Taekwondo guys, they have so many holes in their games because of that.

01:52:20.000 And it's the same thing with karate guys.

01:52:22.000 But that skill that these guys have of being able to touch each other first.

01:52:26.000 I mean, if you add all that other stuff like Venom Page has, add submissions, add leg kicks, then you've got a crazy combination.

01:52:36.000 Yeah, that's part of what we've had a lot of success with in our striking is that, yeah, Muay Thai, but at the end of the day, our boxing is, we'll box.

01:52:43.000 It's Western boxing.

01:52:44.000 You know, we'll do Dutch combos.

01:52:46.000 We'll do Thai clinch, Thai elbows. 1.00

01:52:48.000 But we'll also adapt our striking for MMA. And most Muay Thai coaches aren't really thinking how, you know, the MMA, like, you don't throw leg kicks when somebody's coming forward in an MMA fight.

01:53:00.000 You're going to get taken down.

01:53:01.000 They have to be backing up.

01:53:02.000 You have to stop them with something.

01:53:04.000 Most Thai coaches aren't going to go out of their way to learn the sport of MMA to become an effective MMA striker.

01:53:12.000 Like Saki. 0.92

01:53:14.000 Listen, I know his Roundtree's coach, Jason Park, who's out of boxing, works with Brian Popejoy.

01:53:22.000 Tremendous gym down here in Southern California.

01:53:27.000 Gogan throws that blind leg kick and he throws it from that side and it leaves his head open.

01:53:32.000 They planned for that.

01:53:33.000 That was a planned counter.

01:53:34.000 That wasn't just luck of the draw.

01:53:36.000 That's an MMA coach with a solid Muay Thai background who's understanding striking for MMA versus someone like Gogan who, again, One of the best strikers to ever be in the UFC who hasn't really adapted, unlike a Crow Cop, to MMA yet. 0.95

01:53:52.000 Well, it's also Gokhan came into the UFC with how many fights?

01:53:56.000 I mean, how many fights has that guy had in kickboxing?

01:53:59.000 But how many MMA fights?

01:54:01.000 It was like 0-1 when he came in, right?

01:54:03.000 Yeah, I think he was 0-1.

01:54:05.000 Yeah, and that's, you know, you'll get that a lot with people like Jermaine.

01:54:09.000 When I first started training Jermaine DeRondami, I'm the one that brought her over here.

01:54:13.000 She was 0-1.

01:54:13.000 She got her arm broken by Vanessa Porto in a Florida fight, right?

01:54:17.000 How were you pronouncing her last name?

01:54:19.000 DeRondami.

01:54:20.000 Is that how she says it?

01:54:21.000 Yeah.

01:54:21.000 Because everybody says DeRondami.

01:54:22.000 Yeah, no.

01:54:23.000 DeRondami.

01:54:24.000 I've heard her say they're on Domi.

01:54:25.000 Yeah.

01:54:26.000 She just lets people say it how they want. 0.98

01:54:28.000 But why did she decide to not fight Cyborg?

01:54:30.000 What was that all about? 0.99

01:54:31.000 Because she won the title, beat Holly Holm, and then said, yeah, you know, fuck that. 0.99

01:54:36.000 I'm not fighting that steroid cheat is basically what she said. 0.99

01:54:40.000 She called her a steroid cheat. 0.99

01:54:41.000 Well, you're going to say what you're going to say in the moment, right?

01:54:45.000 So, you know, when I met her, she was 0-1.

01:54:49.000 She was like the most dominant female kickboxer of all time. 0.95

01:54:52.000 She knocked out a dude. 0.99

01:54:53.000 Yeah.

01:54:54.000 See that fight?

01:54:54.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:54:55.000 I did.

01:54:56.000 Flatline the dude with her right hand. 1.00

01:54:57.000 Crazy.

01:54:58.000 She was training with Sean Tompkins, and then Sean passed away.

01:55:01.000 And her manager at the time said, hey, she needs a place to go, so I brought her over.

01:55:05.000 We met and helped her get her visa.

01:55:07.000 I got her signed with Strikeforce.

01:55:10.000 She fought at the Playboy Mansion. 0.98

01:55:11.000 Yeah, did a few different things.

01:55:13.000 And her and Miriam never really got along.

01:55:15.000 So, I could see early on, her and Miriam never sparred.

01:55:19.000 They drilled a couple times.

01:55:20.000 Never sparred once while I had both of them at the gym.

01:55:23.000 That seems kind of crazy.

01:55:25.000 Well, then we're going to fast forward that over to the cyborg thing.

01:55:27.000 At the end of the day, I feel like in that moment, Jermaine achieved what she wanted to achieve.

01:55:35.000 And for whatever reason, whoever was advising her at the time, I think she should have taken that fight.

01:55:40.000 I think she should have done that fight.

01:55:41.000 She wasn't with me at the time.

01:55:42.000 I can't judge what happened.

01:55:43.000 You mean the cyborg fight?

01:55:43.000 Yeah, the cyborg fight.

01:55:44.000 Well, she had an injury apparently to her thumb.

01:55:47.000 I interviewed her after the Holly Holm fight.

01:55:49.000 She said she needed to get the surgery on her thumb. 0.88

01:55:51.000 But then she changed the story later and said she's never going to fight Cyborg.

01:55:56.000 I don't understand that.

01:55:58.000 I mean, but if you're going to call her a cheat, okay, she was a cheat before you even went to the 145-pound division. 1.00

01:56:05.000 You knew inevitably this is what was going to happen.

01:56:07.000 So I question that as a person, nice girl.

01:56:11.000 What do you think it is then?

01:56:13.000 I mean, the only thing that I would say is she doesn't want to fight her because she doesn't think she could beat her. 1.00

01:56:19.000 I think that, I definitely think that that's gotta be in somebody's head.

01:56:24.000 I can't say.

01:56:25.000 How could it not be?

01:56:26.000 I can't say. 1.00

01:56:28.000 Your fucking cyborg, how could it not be? 1.00

01:56:31.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:56:31.000 She's fucking terrifying. 1.00

01:56:32.000 Like when they presented the cyborg fight to me for Miriam, I said yes right away. 0.99

01:56:35.000 I said yes, we'll do it.

01:56:37.000 In kickboxing?

01:56:38.000 In Muay Thai, yes.

01:56:39.000 I would not have said yes in MMA. I just would not have.

01:56:42.000 It's not going to go well.

01:56:44.000 It's just not for someone like that.

01:56:47.000 Jermaine does not have enough experience in MMA. If Jermaine is on her back, she's not getting up. 1.00

01:56:54.000 She's just not.

01:56:55.000 Amanda Nunes showed that. 0.88

01:56:56.000 People show that.

01:56:56.000 She doesn't have that skill yet.

01:56:58.000 So just say, hey, I'm not ready for this yet.

01:57:01.000 Maybe.

01:57:02.000 I don't know.

01:57:02.000 But you can't say that when you're the world champion.

01:57:05.000 I get it.

01:57:06.000 So she hasn't fought since that, right?

01:57:08.000 Since she beat Holly. 0.98

01:57:09.000 She's talking about fighting again.

01:57:11.000 And like I said, we're friendly.

01:57:12.000 I mean, there's no bad blood.

01:57:14.000 Did she get that thumb fixed? 1.00

01:57:16.000 I believe she did, yeah.

01:57:17.000 It wasn't a good fit for the gym, for her and I. But she, again, she's still under contract.

01:57:24.000 She got the surgery.

01:57:26.000 I wish her well.

01:57:27.000 I think she's going back to 35, from what I understand.

01:57:29.000 Well, if she can go to 35, she should.

01:57:32.000 Because Cyborg can't.

01:57:34.000 Yeah.

01:57:35.000 You seen that video of her cutting weight? 0.87

01:57:38.000 Dude!

01:57:38.000 Oh my god.

01:57:39.000 I've stood next to her before.

01:57:40.000 I've shook her hand.

01:57:41.000 She's gigantic.

01:57:42.000 She weighs a buck 85 if she weighs a pound. 0.99

01:57:45.000 I mean, she's walking around very, very heavy and thick.

01:57:49.000 And so she obviously diets down, gets in the 170-pound range, diets down a little bit more, gets in the 165-pound range, and then begins the dehydration process. 1.00

01:58:00.000 But she is fucking enormous when she gets into that cage. 1.00

01:58:04.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:58:04.000 Then the problem is California with that 10% rule. 0.99

01:58:08.000 There's no way she makes it.

01:58:09.000 There's no way she makes that.

01:58:10.000 I think that is just a recommendation though.

01:58:13.000 The first time it's a recommendation.

01:58:14.000 No, but there's a couple of guys that weighed in the next day like heavier than the 10% and they had to fight heavier.

01:58:22.000 Didn't she fight in California though after the rule? 0.90

01:58:24.000 It would be interesting to know what she weighed in at on that.

01:58:26.000 That's very interesting because they don't give that information out.

01:58:28.000 I wish they would like boxing does, like HBO. They'll show you what they got into it.

01:58:33.000 Yeah, that's cool.

01:58:34.000 I read yesterday that California was going to start releasing the fight day weights.

01:58:39.000 That's Andy Foster.

01:58:41.000 That guy who's the head of the California State Athletic Commission, he's on the ball.

01:58:46.000 That guy is on the ball.

01:58:48.000 He's so ahead of the curve. 0.99

01:58:50.000 You know, with all that shit, with implementation of additional weight classes, with catching people, doing steroids. 0.99

01:58:59.000 I love that guy. 0.99

01:59:00.000 I'm a big fan.

01:59:00.000 No, Andy has been great for the sport in California.

01:59:05.000 And when people talk about, oh, Dana's going to change the weigh-in times and this and this and this, I don't believe that Andy Foster would let that happen in his lifetime.

01:59:14.000 Here's what I think. 0.98

01:59:15.000 If you're going to have this weigh-in thing early in the morning, let them weigh in all day till the fucking limit. 0.90

01:59:21.000 If it's 4 o'clock in the afternoon where they're supposed to weigh in, cut it off at 3.30 so you know for sure whether or not someone's going to make it. 0.69

01:59:27.000 But the problem is you wake up at 8 o'clock in the morning, you only have two hours.

01:59:32.000 That's not the same as being able to do it all throughout the day where your body would normally just lose a little bit of weight anyway.

01:59:38.000 It changes everything, that timing.

01:59:41.000 And that's where, you know, you look at the numbers, it's like, oh, you know, two-year span before they change the timing, X amount of people missed weight, two-year span since, this many people missed weight.

01:59:50.000 Well, people push it.

01:59:50.000 They do push it.

01:59:51.000 You give them more time and they are going to push it.

01:59:53.000 If they know that they can rehydrate longer, which is the idea, is that it's safer because you can rehydrate from 8 a.m.

01:59:59.000 to 4 p.m.

02:00:00.000 instead of, you know, from 4 p.m.

02:00:02.000 on. 1.00

02:00:03.000 I just think that give them all the time they need, you know, and Fuck! 1.00

02:00:09.000 1FC's laid out the groundwork. 0.99

02:00:11.000 Look at what they did with their rehydration tests, or hydration tests, rather, and implement that.

02:00:17.000 I think cutting weight is just silly.

02:00:18.000 I was talking to my girlfriend about it, and she was like, wait, wait.

02:00:22.000 She didn't know much about fighting at the time, obviously, but she was like, you guys make this weight, but the next day you're not the same weight, so why not just not weigh in? 0.99

02:00:33.000 It's stupid. 1.00

02:00:35.000 It sounds really stupid. 1.00

02:00:37.000 That's not what you fight at. 1.00

02:00:38.000 It's sanctioned cheating.

02:00:39.000 It's sanctioned cheating, and it's cheating at a much higher scale even than PEDs.

02:00:44.000 If you get two people, and they both weigh 135, but they're both totally hydrated, and one of them has been doing steroids, and one of them hasn't been doing steroids, the difference will be far less than if one person weighs in at 135, but then balloons up to 160. And then gets into that octagon at 160, but there's no PEDs involved.

02:01:08.000 Well, that's a much greater advantage than someone who's doing some sort of a testosterone thing or something.

02:01:14.000 Especially with more time now to rehydrate.

02:01:17.000 It's still not enough time, right?

02:01:19.000 You know, the 48 hours, you know, whatever the current study is.

02:01:21.000 They're compromised.

02:01:22.000 The benefit might outweigh, the benefit of being so much larger might outweigh being compromised.

02:01:29.000 Absolutely.

02:01:29.000 And if you look at the previous record, it was a losing record for fighters that missed weight when it was a 5 o'clock weigh-in.

02:01:35.000 And now it's a winning record for fighters that missed weight in an 11 a.m.

02:01:38.000 weigh-in.

02:01:38.000 Because they have more time to recover.

02:01:41.000 Dude, if I was running shit, I would fix that first. 0.98

02:01:44.000 That would be the first thing I would fix. 0.98

02:01:46.000 The next thing I would fix is judging. 0.97

02:01:48.000 The idea that you have win bonus and loss bonus, but you haven't fixed the fucking judging is... 0.99

02:01:54.000 It's goddamn crazy. 0.99

02:01:56.000 It's crazy. 0.98

02:01:58.000 I just throw my hands up sometimes now.

02:02:00.000 I can't even say anything anymore because I've had so many rants about it and they've gone nowhere and nothing gets done and you still have people that literally have never applied an arm bar in their life.

02:02:10.000 They've never taken a punch in the face in their life.

02:02:13.000 They've never thrown a kick in competition in their life and they're judging these fights.

02:02:18.000 And they don't even train.

02:02:19.000 Forget competition. 0.99

02:02:21.000 Just fucking have a love of the sport. 1.00

02:02:24.000 They don't even have a love of the sport. 0.99

02:02:25.000 They're just doing it as a job.

02:02:27.000 It's crazy.

02:02:28.000 It is crazy when you have unlimited supply of people who are martial arts experts who would make fantastic judges all throughout the world.

02:02:39.000 You have thousands of them.

02:02:42.000 I mean, how many fucking people are giant martial arts fans that are on, whether it's SureDog or MixMartialArts.com or, you know, fill in the name of the website. 0.98

02:02:51.000 There's so many people that are engrossed in martial arts all day long. 0.99

02:02:57.000 That's what they live for.

02:02:58.000 And they still debate whether or not Cejudo should have won round two or Mighty Mouse should have won it with effective striking.

02:03:05.000 And it's like this real comprehensive conversation going on.

02:03:08.000 These people that are judging the fights can't even have that conversation.

02:03:11.000 If you had a conversation with half the fucking UFC judges, if I had them here and I sat them down and I said, you know, let's watch a fight and you tell me what you think is going on here. 0.89

02:03:20.000 Tell me what you think is better. 0.99

02:03:22.000 Tell me what you think.

02:03:23.000 What does a low calf kick feel like?

02:03:26.000 What does it feel like?

02:03:28.000 When you get hit with a liver shot.

02:03:29.000 When is a guy safe in a triangle and when is he in danger?

02:03:33.000 How can you protect yourself?

02:03:35.000 Who's dominating what position?

02:03:37.000 When is a guy just laying on top to breathe and rest in the third round?

02:03:41.000 Or when are they doing damage?

02:03:43.000 Can you recognize a progression?

02:03:46.000 Do you understand what a guy has to do to get out of the guard?

02:03:49.000 You understand what a guy has to do to escape from an arm triangle. 0.97

02:03:52.000 If you don't, you have no fucking business putting these guys' livelihoods and their records and literally half their earning. 0.98

02:04:01.000 You have no business. 1.00

02:04:02.000 Half the fucking money? 1.00

02:04:04.000 If you're getting 50 and 50, this motherfucker costs you $50,000 by not knowing anything? 1.00

02:04:10.000 That is insane to me. 1.00

02:04:12.000 That should be fixed.

02:04:13.000 And why is there three judges?

02:04:15.000 Why three?

02:04:16.000 Says who? 0.65

02:04:17.000 Because boxing's always done it that way? 1.00

02:04:19.000 What are we, fucking copycats? 0.99

02:04:20.000 That doesn't make any sense. 0.99

02:04:21.000 We should have five.

02:04:23.000 Have five judges.

02:04:24.000 Glory's been doing that. 1.00

02:04:25.000 You have a much greater chance of getting it right with five judges. 0.99

02:04:28.000 Have five judges make these motherfuckers take tests. 1.00

02:04:31.000 First of all, that's one thing. 0.99

02:04:33.000 Second, why ten-point must-system? 0.99

02:04:35.000 What the fuck is that? 1.00

02:04:36.000 That's some boxing shit. 1.00

02:04:37.000 Why are you using a boxing scoring system for something that involves takedowns, submissions, leg kicks, punches, elbows, knees? 0.99

02:04:44.000 Like, there's too many things.

02:04:46.000 There's way too many things.

02:04:47.000 It's a crazy system.

02:04:48.000 Absolutely.

02:04:49.000 It's what I get the most, the discussions from Muay Thai.

02:04:53.000 It's the same thing.

02:04:54.000 It's the same exact judging.

02:04:57.000 Same exact problem.

02:04:57.000 Same problem.

02:04:58.000 It's not, you know, what's worth more, what's not worth more.

02:05:01.000 How do they judge in Thailand?

02:05:02.000 Well, it depends.

02:05:04.000 Now, in Thailand, they're starting to just kind of score things evenly.

02:05:08.000 They're starting to do just three three-minute rounds.

02:05:10.000 Yeah, they want Muay Thai in the Olympics, right?

02:05:14.000 So you can't score the body kick more than a leg kick in the Olympics, right?

02:05:19.000 The weapons have to be equal is what they want from the International Olympic Committee.

02:05:24.000 Because it used to be like, you know, I've been to Thailand three times, and I'll go to Limpini or Raja, and These guys were like, and sometimes it would be foreigners fighting against ties, and they would punch and do all these low kicks and stuff like that, and then the tie will throw two body kicks, and they'll win the round, because the body kick scores more. 0.77

02:05:44.000 Right.

02:05:45.000 And the tie scoring, I mean, it's designed for gambling.

02:05:47.000 Right.

02:05:48.000 So it's one of those things where, you know, people scream, it's not traditional tie, it's not traditional tie, it's not traditional tie.

02:05:54.000 At the end of the day, no one's saying that traditional tie is right either.

02:05:57.000 The body kick should not be worth more than a punch to the mouth.

02:05:59.000 Well, I believe they've changed that now.

02:06:01.000 They have, yeah.

02:06:02.000 At IFMA. At IFMA, they have.

02:06:03.000 Everything counts the same.

02:06:04.000 It's just damage.

02:06:05.000 Damage, right.

02:06:06.000 Hard shots.

02:06:07.000 Yeah, hard shots versus, you know.

02:06:09.000 But isn't it even that subjective?

02:06:11.000 Like, what is a hard shot and what's not a hard shot?

02:06:13.000 It is here, especially because it's the ABC. Yeah.

02:06:16.000 You know, Adelaide Byrd judged Kevin's fight with Yamato.

02:06:20.000 She did.

02:06:21.000 So...

02:06:22.000 Yeah.

02:06:23.000 Nice lady. 1.00

02:06:25.000 That's what I always say about Adelaide Bird. 0.97

02:06:27.000 Nice lady. 1.00

02:06:28.000 That's it.

02:06:29.000 I always smile when I see her.

02:06:31.000 I remember that fight. 1.00

02:06:33.000 That shit drives me crazy though. 0.99

02:06:35.000 And literally, my opinion is that she gave the fight to Yamato because I guarantee you she didn't know that elbows were supposed to mean more just because Kevin was bleeding. 1.00

02:06:43.000 And that's all she could see.

02:06:44.000 I remember.

02:06:45.000 It was my 21st birthday.

02:06:46.000 I walked off because I thought Kevin won.

02:06:49.000 And then I'm like, wait, what just happened?

02:06:52.000 There was one round where he threw seven left body kicks in a row, unanswered.

02:07:00.000 Just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

02:07:04.000 And he had some blood on him and he lost a fight.

02:07:06.000 I mean, what are you going to do?

02:07:08.000 Yeah.

02:07:08.000 Unreal.

02:07:09.000 Yeah, it's unfortunate.

02:07:14.000 Here's the thing.

02:07:15.000 I've been saying this forever.

02:07:17.000 Nothing changes.

02:07:18.000 You know what I was really surprised this past weekend? 0.99

02:07:20.000 I was talking to Daniel Cormier and I said, I think the stupidest fucking rule is that 12 to 6 elbow. 0.99

02:07:25.000 And he said, I like that rule. 0.99

02:07:27.000 And I said, really?

02:07:28.000 I said, you don't think that 12 to 6 elbows should be legal?

02:07:31.000 He goes, you ever get hit by a 12 to 6 elbow on the ground?

02:07:33.000 I said, no, I haven't. 0.98

02:07:35.000 And he said, believe me, man, it sucks. 0.99

02:07:37.000 I go, but doesn't every elbow on the ground suck? 0.99

02:07:39.000 Yeah. 0.86

02:07:40.000 I mean, I would think that just getting hit this way, you know, just a regular elbow sucks. 0.62

02:07:45.000 On the ground, your head's planted. 0.84

02:07:47.000 You're not going anywhere.

02:07:48.000 You're just taking it out.

02:07:48.000 It isn't legal in Muay Thai either from the clinch when you're going 12 to 6.

02:07:53.000 It's not legal?

02:07:54.000 It's not legal.

02:07:55.000 No, no, no.

02:07:55.000 But you can in the air, right?

02:07:56.000 You can jump up in the air.

02:07:57.000 Well, it's not legal in the U.S., I think.

02:07:59.000 In the U.S., the 12 to 6 elbow, because it's ABC, is not legal.

02:08:03.000 John Wayne Parr sent me a video of him leaping through the air and literally elbowing someone in the back of the head with it.

02:08:11.000 He's like, this doesn't count because when you're in the air, digital becomes analog. 0.50

02:08:14.000 He sent me this ridiculous.

02:08:16.000 I saw that.

02:08:18.000 Miriam's fight at IFMA, she ended up getting her fight, she was the gold medal fight, she ended up getting it moved to the King's Cup, because it was happening at the same time as the World Championships, just because she was landing so many 12-6 flying elbows on girls.

02:08:34.000 They'd never seen it from a woman before.

02:08:36.000 She was going crazy.

02:08:37.000 Yeah, I mean, literally just flying just across the ring, just chopping girls down with 12-6 elbows.

02:08:43.000 Her performance, that was like 09?

02:08:45.000 Yeah, 09. That performance, she just run through girls. 1.00

02:08:48.000 Like, scary.

02:08:49.000 And that 12-6 elbow, it's no more dangerous.

02:08:52.000 The most dangerous elbow in all of combat sports is the spinning elbow.

02:08:56.000 That's the most dangerous elbow. 0.98

02:08:58.000 How the fuck could a 12-6 elbow be more powerful than that? 0.99

02:09:02.000 No, there's no more dangerous elbow. 0.99

02:09:04.000 Tyler Toner, the kid that he landed on first, Dwayne's kid, he's a Shudo veteran.

02:09:09.000 He's a UFC veteran.

02:09:10.000 Broke his orbital.

02:09:11.000 Broke his orbital.

02:09:12.000 He retired him.

02:09:12.000 He never fought again.

02:09:13.000 His eyes started to sink into his cheek.

02:09:16.000 He had to put a plate on the bottom because...

02:09:18.000 Yeah, the broken orbital is so weird because oftentimes it changes the way the eye looks.

02:09:23.000 Like, you remember when Bob Sapp...

02:09:25.000 Well, I think he has a lazy eye now.

02:09:27.000 Yeah, he does.

02:09:27.000 Yeah, Cro Cop broke Bob Sapp's eyeball.

02:09:30.000 Like, he punched his eyeball through the back of his head, where the orbital, you know, there's a hole... 0.98

02:09:36.000 right where the eyeball sits like you see that thing yeah he was fractured behind it and so now bob's got one eye that's big and one eye that's little yeah from getting tagged by crow cop the the 12 to 6 elbow that has no more effect than any other and that was a straight left hand with kickboxing gloves on that's how hard crow cop hits yeah think about that yeah i was a bad dude man yeah he was a bad motherfucker and still is yeah And the thing, 0.92

02:10:04.000 though, is that it just doesn't make any sense to me that, like, here's one that people are trying to say that should be banned, the side kick to the knee, or the oblique kick to the knee. 0.77

02:10:15.000 How is that, why would you ban that when you don't ban heel hooks? 0.99

02:10:19.000 That seems crazy to me.

02:10:20.000 Why would you ban that when you don't ban wheel kicks?

02:10:23.000 It's okay to literally bounce your heel off someone's head when you're spinning your body around like a top and you have unbelievable power.

02:10:33.000 Like a wheel kick.

02:10:34.000 Remember when Terry Adam got knocked out by Edson Barboza?

02:10:37.000 Oh my god.

02:10:38.000 He just froze in the air and just dropped.

02:10:41.000 It was literally like someone hit his switch.

02:10:44.000 That might be the best spinning kick I've seen.

02:10:47.000 It was the first ever wheel kick KO in the UFC. Oh!

02:10:49.000 Yeah.

02:10:50.000 And, I mean, we've had a few since then, but it's just such a crazy technique.

02:10:54.000 Yeah, you got that?

02:10:55.000 Yeah.

02:10:55.000 Here it is.

02:10:56.000 Watch this.

02:10:57.000 He froze.

02:10:58.000 And put on the commentary.

02:11:00.000 What do you want to do?

02:11:01.000 Do you want to take a chance and risk getting knocked out?

02:11:04.000 I was literally saying, take a chance and risk getting knocked out, and Terry Adam got knocked out.

02:11:10.000 He's frozen.

02:11:10.000 Yeah.

02:11:11.000 I mean, that shit was perfect. 1.00

02:11:12.000 Barboso, man. 1.00

02:11:13.000 That's a bad dude. 1.00

02:11:14.000 He's a bad motherfucker. 1.00

02:11:15.000 One of my favorite fights of him was when he fought Anthony and Giacchewanee. 1.00

02:11:18.000 That was a badass fight, man.

02:11:20.000 That was a great fight.

02:11:22.000 I think that's my favorite stand-up fight I've seen.

02:11:25.000 Well, Nji Kwanis is such a great kickboxer himself.

02:11:27.000 He's a Muay Thai fighter himself.

02:11:28.000 That's what he's doing now.

02:11:30.000 His last fight was Muay Thai.

02:11:32.000 So he's all Muay Thai now?

02:11:33.000 That's what he's doing now?

02:11:34.000 Yeah, he won the triumphant title.

02:11:36.000 Is his brother Muay Thai fighting as well?

02:11:38.000 No, Chidi's doing... 0.72

02:11:41.000 Chidi might be in that tournament. 0.57

02:11:43.000 Is he?

02:11:44.000 Is he?

02:11:45.000 I don't know.

02:11:45.000 Chidi signed with Bellator.

02:11:47.000 No, but he's not making 170 anymore.

02:11:49.000 He's fighting 185. Is Bellator doing Michael Page versus Semtex, Paul Daly?

02:11:56.000 Are they going to do that?

02:11:57.000 Yeah, they're doing it.

02:11:58.000 And then they're in opposite brackets of Musashi.

02:12:02.000 Oh, good lord.

02:12:03.000 Bellator reveals welterweight tournament bracket including Michael Page versus Paul Daly.

02:12:08.000 So Page versus Daly is on one side.

02:12:11.000 They're on this side, yeah.

02:12:12.000 Is Musashi going to fight at 170?

02:12:15.000 Wait a minute.

02:12:16.000 That's not real, right?

02:12:18.000 Mousasi's fighting 170?

02:12:19.000 No.

02:12:20.000 Rory's going up to fight Mousasi.

02:12:22.000 This is just announced today.

02:12:24.000 Rory and Mousasi separate.

02:12:25.000 This is the welterweight grand prix.

02:12:26.000 Mousasi's a big 185-er.

02:12:27.000 Make that larger again so I can see what this...

02:12:29.000 This is really strange.

02:12:31.000 So what they're doing is they're going to do...

02:12:33.000 Rory McDonald is staying inside.

02:12:36.000 So Rory McDonald is staying in this welterweight Grand Prix as well.

02:12:40.000 But he's fighting.

02:12:42.000 Yeah, but he's doing a super fight September 29th.

02:12:45.000 And Lorenz Larkin's still in the mix, too.

02:12:48.000 He's an alternate. 0.88

02:12:48.000 He's a beast, man. 0.88

02:12:50.000 Lorenz Larkin is a fucking beast. 1.00

02:12:52.000 You know, I mean, he lost to Lima, and then he got stopped by Daly, but... 1.00

02:12:55.000 He's a monster. 0.98

02:12:56.000 He's a monster. 0.96

02:12:57.000 And Korshkov, man, look, did you see that spinning back kick that Korshkov landed? 0.93

02:13:02.000 He literally sent that dude flying through the air.

02:13:05.000 I fought on that card earlier. 1.00

02:13:07.000 Fuck, that was crazy. 0.99

02:13:08.000 And Douglas Lima looks like a heavyweight. 1.00

02:13:11.000 Looks like a heavyweight. 0.98

02:13:12.000 You're like, how the fuck is that guy 170? 0.98

02:13:16.000 He's got to be one of the bigger weight cutters in the sport, right? 0.99

02:13:18.000 Absolutely.

02:13:20.000 See, this is what I'm thinking when I'm looking at this.

02:13:22.000 I'm like, this is a really good tournament.

02:13:25.000 Like, Bellator is getting really close.

02:13:28.000 When you've got Lima...

02:13:29.000 Who's world-class, Korshkov, world-class.

02:13:32.000 We saw that when he fought Benson Henderson, for sure, right?

02:13:35.000 But Lima stopped him.

02:13:36.000 And then you got Paul Daly, who literally can stop anybody. 0.99

02:13:39.000 That motherfucker lands that left hand. 1.00

02:13:41.000 He can put anybody to sleep. 1.00

02:13:42.000 He knocked out Harkin.

02:13:44.000 That's going to be a banger. 1.00

02:13:45.000 Fuck yeah. 1.00

02:13:46.000 And Rory McDonald, who shut Paul Daly down. 1.00

02:13:50.000 And also beat Lima.

02:13:52.000 And then you got John Fitch, who seems reborn after he beat Paul Daly.

02:13:58.000 Very interesting, right?

02:13:59.000 It's a good tournament.

02:14:00.000 Plus, very little drug testing.

02:14:05.000 We're California-based, Joe.

02:14:07.000 We don't know about all that.

02:14:08.000 We got CSAT. Fuck, man. 1.00

02:14:11.000 I don't know what you're talking about. 1.00

02:14:14.000 But it's fascinating to see the difference between guys in the early days of the UFC when it was the Wild West versus now.

02:14:20.000 I mean, bodies have changed.

02:14:22.000 Careers have taken different paths.

02:14:24.000 Listen, I'm a fan.

02:14:25.000 If it's not legal, then it should all be illegal, and I'm a fan of USADA. They visit my gym.

02:14:30.000 Poor Alexis has been tested so much. 0.74

02:14:33.000 In two months, I think they came, what, four times?

02:14:36.000 Why did they test her so much?

02:14:37.000 I don't know.

02:14:39.000 Do they operate on rumors?

02:14:40.000 No, no, no.

02:14:41.000 No, no.

02:14:42.000 If you look at Alexis Davis, she's not someone that somebody thinks is. 0.78

02:14:44.000 No, that's what I'm saying.

02:14:45.000 I think it's just because the USADA rep is very active in that area.

02:14:50.000 So she's come, she's tested Todd, she's tested Dustin, she's tested Alexis a lot.

02:14:55.000 Todd, yeah.

02:14:56.000 Yeah, Todd Duffy.

02:14:58.000 She's tested a lot.

02:14:59.000 Well, Todd Duffy was on testosterone replacement at one point in time.

02:15:03.000 Before my time, I believe so.

02:15:05.000 Well, he was when he was like 25. Yeah, he wasn't.

02:15:08.000 Yeah, he wasn't.

02:15:09.000 He's been with me now for like the past year.

02:15:12.000 I renegotiated his UFC agreement.

02:15:14.000 I love Todd.

02:15:15.000 Great guy.

02:15:17.000 Todd, as a heavyweight, was fighting for like 10 and 10 before I renegotiated his deal.

02:15:25.000 But he just had shoulder surgery and he just had knee surgery, so we're hoping to get him back.

02:15:29.000 He has knee surgery?

02:15:30.000 Yeah, last week.

02:15:31.000 Oh, man.

02:15:32.000 Shoulder surgery and knee surgery.

02:15:34.000 He had shoulder surgery like six months ago.

02:15:37.000 He's still young though, right?

02:15:38.000 Yeah, he is.

02:15:39.000 He's not that old.

02:15:40.000 I think mentally he thinks he's older than he is.

02:15:42.000 He's a good dude.

02:15:43.000 As a heavyweight, him being a heavyweight, me being a featherweight, we can train together and spar.

02:15:49.000 And he's just so controlled and so quick.

02:15:51.000 That's awesome.

02:15:52.000 So quick for a heavyweight.

02:15:53.000 We don't spar hard.

02:15:55.000 We really don't.

02:15:56.000 You don't?

02:15:57.000 No.

02:15:57.000 We don't, not at all.

02:15:58.000 The hardest I spar for my last fight was probably when Cody came down or when I went up there.

02:16:01.000 That was twice in two months.

02:16:03.000 No, we don't.

02:16:03.000 Really?

02:16:04.000 Yeah.

02:16:04.000 I don't spar hard.

02:16:05.000 That is so fucking smart and I love hearing that because I just feel like so many fighters make that mistake. 0.86

02:16:11.000 Yeah. 0.94

02:16:12.000 Well, you come from a boxing background, you spar like three days a week, at least two, right?

02:16:16.000 And you're going, you know, you're going as hard as you can.

02:16:18.000 And then, you know, kickboxing, you know, ties, they don't spar that hard.

02:16:23.000 You go, oh, well, you know, they're done fighting or whatever.

02:16:25.000 But the truth of the matter is, is that with all of the weapons that you have in MMA and all the weapons that you have in tie boxing, you're sparring hard with those weapons.

02:16:33.000 The chance of injury is through the roof.

02:16:36.000 If you're throwing spinning elbows in training, it's a full clip.

02:16:39.000 I can show it.

02:16:40.000 I use him as the example.

02:16:42.000 A lot of people come, well, Coach, if I don't throw this hard, how am I going to know that I can land it in a fight hard?

02:16:47.000 Well, Gaston's never put anybody down with a spinning elbow in the gym, and he can land it in a fight. 0.99

02:16:52.000 It's bullshit. 0.98

02:16:53.000 And I can show it really well in the gym. 1.00

02:16:57.000 Like to the point that I'm like right there.

02:16:58.000 Right, right.

02:16:59.000 And I just stopped and I'm like, I just raised my hand and I'm like, that would have been it.

02:17:04.000 And most people agree.

02:17:06.000 Good for you for training like that.

02:17:07.000 Yeah, no, we've never been a hard sparring gym.

02:17:09.000 It's one of the more controversial debates, right?

02:17:11.000 Whether or not you should spar hard.

02:17:13.000 It's not really a deal.

02:17:13.000 Some people think you have to.

02:17:15.000 Absolutely, some people think.

02:17:16.000 Feras thinks you have to.

02:17:17.000 I disagree with Farras.

02:17:18.000 I disagree.

02:17:19.000 He was hiring people to try to knock out George.

02:17:22.000 Yes.

02:17:23.000 I get that and I understand it.

02:17:27.000 I don't agree with it.

02:17:29.000 I just don't.

02:17:29.000 The human body is fragile, man.

02:17:31.000 The brain is fragile.

02:17:33.000 You cannot condition an organ.

02:17:34.000 Right, but how can you argue with his success rate?

02:17:37.000 I mean, it's really interesting.

02:17:38.000 It's like, he's... 1.00

02:17:39.000 Look, AKA, who the fuck spars harder than AKA? Those guys are animals. 1.00

02:17:44.000 They go at each other.

02:17:45.000 But look, Luke Rockhold, world champ.

02:17:47.000 Daniel Cormier, world champ.

02:17:49.000 Cain Velasquez, world champ.

02:17:51.000 Khabib Nurmagomedov, world champ. 0.99

02:17:53.000 And a fucking litany of assassins just waiting in the wings. 0.99

02:17:58.000 In my opinion, succeeding in spite of, not because of... 1.00

02:18:02.000 Ah, interesting.

02:18:04.000 Yeah, well, it's certainly a debate, and your opinion is very well respected, and I am on your side.

02:18:09.000 I like the idea of, I think you know how to fight, and what you're really doing is sharpening up your reaction times and your techniques and ingraining those paths.

02:18:21.000 You're ingrating those reaction paths and I don't necessarily think that the way to do that is to go full clip but I think oftentimes when you do that it actually makes you have less options inside the cage because you're so like wound up and tight and when you're sparring that way you're fighting.

02:18:38.000 Didn't Robbie Lawler stop sparring for a while?

02:18:40.000 He stopped sparring for like seven years.

02:18:44.000 I have people that come to the gym, and again, when it comes to stand-up only, I'll put our record and our people against anybody in North America, and we don't spar hard.

02:18:55.000 And I get people that come to the gym all the time coming from a hard sparring background and they are missing weapons.

02:19:02.000 They are missing tools.

02:19:03.000 They are in fight or flight mode right away.

02:19:08.000 You are developing that sniper bite down on your mouthpiece attitude, which is one attribute of fighting.

02:19:14.000 Sometimes you do need to bite down on your mouthpiece, but it doesn't work out for at least one of the two people doing it in a fight.

02:19:21.000 Yeah, I like what you just said.

02:19:22.000 It's one attribute of fighting.

02:19:25.000 Absolutely.

02:19:25.000 And it is one.

02:19:26.000 I mean, you can't deny that it is one.

02:19:28.000 But it is only one.

02:19:29.000 And technical proficiency is the most important.

02:19:33.000 Yeah, being able to throw jabs, establish jabs, establish probes, use fakes and feints, movement, and being defensively sound.

02:19:41.000 And have that incredible, variable repertoire, that toolbox.

02:19:44.000 And that was one of the things you saw in the fight with Cody vs.

02:19:48.000 TJ. TJ had a bigger toolbox.

02:19:50.000 In terms of his movement, he was more fluid while he was doing it.

02:19:56.000 And that ultimately proved to be what was most important in that fight.

02:20:01.000 I'll 100% Go to the grave believing that Cody is a far better boxer than TJ. That didn't translate into an MMA fight on Saturday night.

02:20:13.000 For whatever reason.

02:20:15.000 Whether it's anger, whether it was the last fight, whether it was game plan, lack of coaching.

02:20:20.000 Whatever it was, 100% I believe that Cody did not show who or what he is that night.

02:20:29.000 Have you worked with Cody?

02:20:30.000 No.

02:20:31.000 Would you want to?

02:20:33.000 Sure.

02:20:34.000 I'll work with anybody that has a good attitude and is willing to embrace my way of doing things.

02:20:43.000 Because I think he's a very talented guy and I think he can really benefit from training with someone like you.

02:20:48.000 Yeah, again, and I think that the relationship that we're developing with Alpha Male, they've got a ton of great guys there, is a good one.

02:20:56.000 But I'm careful not to overstep my bounds.

02:20:59.000 Right, I see what you're saying.

02:21:01.000 Don't say, hey, I could fix you.

02:21:02.000 Come on over here, kid.

02:21:04.000 No, no, no.

02:21:05.000 I wouldn't do that.

02:21:07.000 The guys there that want to work with me, I happily work with, and they allow my guys to go up there and wrestle, which is what we need.

02:21:13.000 So it's been a good fit, but I would never poach.

02:21:16.000 Good for you, man.

02:21:17.000 Good for you.

02:21:18.000 Yeah, you don't want that bad blood.

02:21:20.000 You don't want that bad juju on you.

02:21:22.000 Definitely not.

02:21:23.000 So going forward with your camp and with your career, what are you guys doing now that's different than you have done in the past?

02:21:33.000 Have you added anything in terms of strength and conditioning or recovery or anything that you find really beneficial?

02:21:40.000 Strength and conditioning has always been something that we've done really well.

02:21:43.000 For us, you know, recently over the last couple of years, you know, we added Darren, I think is really kind of the...

02:21:50.000 Darren who?

02:21:51.000 You and Yelma.

02:21:52.000 Yeah, I know.

02:21:53.000 A million people listening.

02:21:55.000 But the bone crusher.

02:21:56.000 We've added the bone crusher.

02:21:58.000 He's our head MMA coach.

02:21:59.000 I'm his striking coach.

02:22:01.000 But what he's brought to the table for us...

02:22:03.000 He's got a fun Instagram to watch.

02:22:04.000 Oh, absolutely.

02:22:05.000 Apparently he likes guns.

02:22:06.000 Yeah, he does.

02:22:06.000 He does.

02:22:07.000 He does.

02:22:08.000 There's such an incredible IQ when it comes to fighting in MMA. So much knowledge and so many things.

02:22:14.000 Sometimes you can agree, sometimes you click with people and that's what happens between me and him.

02:22:18.000 I only like rolling with him, really.

02:22:21.000 Because he'll get me in positions that I'm going to probably be in a fight, but he'll walk me through them at the same time.

02:22:29.000 Versus just like, ah, like...

02:22:30.000 It's different.

02:22:32.000 The learning curve for a striker, they're two different languages, right?

02:22:35.000 That's why the grapplers have trouble striking, the strikers have trouble grappling.

02:22:38.000 Someone like Darren, who can do both, that can take a kid like Gaston and can walk him through the positions, the right choices, the wrong choices, in the moment while he's doing it, is very rare that I have found.

02:22:49.000 Um, and Darren, you know, again, he's half Gracie Black belt, uh, feel a world champion, but he started out working the front desk at Fairtex.

02:22:56.000 So he's been around grappling.

02:22:57.000 Alex Gong is his idol.

02:22:59.000 You know, that's his brother from another, you know, I mean, so, um, you know, we checked off bucket list for Darren and he's done two Muay Thai fights at a pro level now.

02:23:06.000 Um, you know, just pro Muay Thai and he's done well.

02:23:09.000 Yeah, I've been following that.

02:23:10.000 It's interesting to watch.

02:23:11.000 And it's one of those things where he wants to do shoot boxing now and wants to go back to Japan.

02:23:15.000 And whatever he wants to do, I'm going to support him in.

02:23:17.000 But his knowledge of the entire MMA game has helped our gym so much and our fight team.

02:23:24.000 I mean, I think in the UFC, our win rate is like 78%.

02:23:27.000 Matt, Dustin, Alexis, all these people came to us off of losing records.

02:23:32.000 Dustin lost two in a row.

02:23:33.000 He's about to get cut.

02:23:34.000 Matt lost three in a row.

02:23:35.000 Alexis had lost two in a row.

02:23:37.000 We have a lot of people...

02:23:38.000 Dude, Dustin looked fantastic in his last fight.

02:23:40.000 That head kick came out of nowhere.

02:23:42.000 What a crazy angle.

02:23:44.000 And the hand was up and everything, and it still just went through.

02:23:48.000 Went through the hand.

02:23:49.000 It was also the angle.

02:23:50.000 It was like a 45 degree head kick.

02:23:53.000 Well, Dustin's flexibility isn't that great.

02:23:55.000 So that's the kick we work on.

02:23:57.000 He can't turn it over the same way.

02:23:59.000 Why not have him stretch?

02:23:59.000 Well, he does.

02:24:00.000 He does.

02:24:02.000 Absolutely.

02:24:03.000 Absolutely.

02:24:03.000 But from a flexibility standpoint, he can throw that kick the way he throws it, so we embraced it.

02:24:09.000 Because it's kind of like an off-speed pitch almost.

02:24:12.000 Yes!

02:24:12.000 It seemed like he slowed it down and then, boom, picked it up again.

02:24:16.000 That is exactly what Mark Delagrate said.

02:24:18.000 That's exactly what he said when he described it.

02:24:20.000 We talked about it the other day.

02:24:22.000 Yeah.

02:24:22.000 And again, that's why we talk about people switching.

02:24:25.000 When we talk about Mateus, his opponent, I don't remember his last name, we knew what a great boxer he was, but whenever he went southpaw, he didn't do anything southpaw.

02:24:35.000 Didn't Dustin do some work with that sand dune stepper thing?

02:24:39.000 He does all the time.

02:24:39.000 All the time.

02:24:39.000 He does all the time.

02:24:40.000 I've got that thing here now.

02:24:42.000 Yeah, no, Dustin swears by it.

02:24:43.000 He loves that thing.

02:24:44.000 He's on it every day.

02:24:45.000 That is a crazy, for people that don't know what it is, they sent me one.

02:24:49.000 The sand dune stepper is like these two really smushy pads that are together.

02:24:53.000 And it's great for, it's almost like standing on a stability ball.

02:24:57.000 Right.

02:24:57.000 Like you stand on them and they're all mushy and you've got to kind of use all your stabilizing muscles.

02:25:01.000 I've never used it.

02:25:03.000 Dustin runs on it.

02:25:05.000 Yeah.

02:25:06.000 I mean, literally he just sprints on it.

02:25:08.000 Just does left, right, left, right, left, right.

02:25:10.000 All day long.

02:25:11.000 He does upper body, too.

02:25:13.000 Correct me if I'm wrong, he had some ankle issues.

02:25:15.000 Isn't that correct for him?

02:25:16.000 Yes.

02:25:19.000 He's somebody who, literally, like we talk about in my gym, Dustin showed up one day, he didn't even call me.

02:25:25.000 It was before the Mikofsky fight.

02:25:27.000 He showed up in my gym one day and started taking classes.

02:25:29.000 I didn't even know who he was.

02:25:31.000 Wow.

02:25:31.000 I had no idea who he was.

02:25:32.000 Well, he had come in like two years before that.

02:25:34.000 Right.

02:25:35.000 When he was with Duke.

02:25:36.000 When he was with Duke, he came in and visited.

02:25:38.000 Like, did a class.

02:25:38.000 Then he came back in and did a class.

02:25:40.000 And I was like, are you still with UFC? And he's like, yeah, I got a fight coming up.

02:25:42.000 And he said, will you train me?

02:25:43.000 And I said, sure.

02:25:44.000 And I said, that's fine.

02:25:45.000 So we trained him for it.

02:25:47.000 I was actually in Italy with Kevin for Bellator Gaston, the one that cornered him when he fought Makovsky.

02:25:52.000 I saw you out there in Toronto.

02:25:53.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:25:54.000 Yeah, that first fight.

02:25:55.000 And literally, that first camp, he and I didn't do a single pad session.

02:26:00.000 All he did was classes.

02:26:02.000 That was it.

02:26:03.000 That's how humble he is.

02:26:05.000 He didn't come in, I'm a UFC guy, I'm this and that.

02:26:07.000 And that's what I'm looking for.

02:26:08.000 Him and I worked a little bit.

02:26:10.000 Because I was going to corner him.

02:26:12.000 Kieran obviously knew he was going to be cornering Kevin.

02:26:15.000 So I went up there with him.

02:26:16.000 So we started working a little bit together.

02:26:17.000 But he's such a great guy, man.

02:26:19.000 Good vibes.

02:26:20.000 From Dustin Ortiz.

02:26:21.000 Yeah, he seems like a really great guy. 1.00

02:26:23.000 And he's got like six goddamn lungs. 0.99

02:26:26.000 He'll just never get tired. 1.00

02:26:28.000 He's one of those guys.

02:26:28.000 He's a 125er.

02:26:30.000 I'm a featherweight, but...

02:26:32.000 You can spar like 20 rounds with that guy, and he will not stop coming at you.

02:26:36.000 Well, with this win this past weekend when Cejudo beat DJ, that weight class just opened wide up.

02:26:41.000 That's what happens when something like that happens.

02:26:43.000 It happens when Chris Wyden beat Anderson Silva.

02:26:46.000 When the undefeatable champion gets beaten, then all of a sudden contenders will rise.

02:26:51.000 And so this is an interesting time for everybody at 125. It's just such a hard weight class to find elite fighters.

02:26:58.000 Yeah.

02:26:58.000 And, you know, I've talked to Bellator about it because I've had other people out and they have no interest in it.

02:27:03.000 None.

02:27:03.000 No one just in 25?

02:27:05.000 Nope.

02:27:05.000 They're debating how long they want to keep 35. Really?

02:27:09.000 Yeah.

02:27:10.000 Really?

02:27:11.000 Interesting.

02:27:11.000 But they don't do women in kickboxing under 125. You know, they won't go near it.

02:27:17.000 And they don't do women over 145. And they don't want any men.

02:27:20.000 They don't have any men.

02:27:21.000 You've never seen a man kickbox for Bellator less than 145 pounds.

02:27:26.000 It's never happened.

02:27:27.000 Is that because they're worried about power?

02:27:30.000 I think they're just worried about marketability, really.

02:27:32.000 Right.

02:27:33.000 Yeah.

02:27:33.000 But the thing is, the bigger people hit harder.

02:27:36.000 It's kind of more exciting to watch.

02:27:38.000 Absolutely.

02:27:40.000 Listen, gentlemen.

02:27:41.000 This has been fun.

02:27:43.000 It's always fun.

02:27:43.000 It's fun this time.

02:27:44.000 I didn't talk last time. 0.98

02:27:45.000 I got a lot of shit for not talking last time. 0.97

02:27:47.000 You talked a little. 0.99

02:27:48.000 A little bit.

02:27:49.000 A little bit. 1.00

02:27:49.000 People who give you shit? 1.00

02:27:51.000 Just everybody. 1.00

02:27:52.000 Oh, I want you to talk. 1.00

02:27:53.000 Tell them to shut the fuck up. 1.00

02:27:54.000 I did. 1.00

02:27:55.000 It wasn't about me.

02:27:56.000 It was about Kevin and Gaston.

02:27:58.000 Thank you for having us.

02:27:59.000 Oh, my pleasure.

02:27:59.000 Anytime.

02:28:00.000 And listen, I think what you're doing is really awesome.

02:28:03.000 I love the fact that you're competing in three different sports and the fact that you're doing it at the highest level.

02:28:07.000 It's really inspiring and it's interesting and it's very compelling.

02:28:11.000 And you're doing it in an awesome way.

02:28:14.000 Thank you very much, man.

02:28:15.000 I plan on keep doing it as far as long as I can until I just go solely into MMA. But yeah, man, I'm having fun.

02:28:23.000 I love fighting.

02:28:24.000 I've been doing this until I was 12 years old, so...

02:28:26.000 I like to say busy, so anything that I can do, if I can do Muay Thai, if I can do kickboxing, if I can do MMA, I'll do it all, man.

02:28:32.000 And CSA Gym on Instagram, it's just CSA Gym, correct?

02:28:37.000 It's at CSA Gym Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.

02:28:40.000 And DreamKiller underscore Bolanos.

02:28:43.000 And spell Bolanos for the people like me.

02:28:44.000 B-O-L-A-N-O-S. All right, beautiful. 1.00

02:28:47.000 Thank you, gentlemen.

02:28:47.000 Thank you.

02:28:48.000 Thank you, sir.

02:28:48.000 Have a lot of fun.

02:28:49.000 Thank you.

The Joe Rogan Experience - August 31, 2010

JRE MMA Show #38 with Gaston Bolanos & Kirian Fitzgibbons

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Transcript