In this episode, Joe talks about his recent knee injury, how to deal with it, and how to prevent it from happening in the future. He also talks about the dangers of ibuprofen and why you shouldn't be taking it at all. Joe is a world champion Muay Thai kickboxer and has been in the business for over 20 years. He's been to the Olympics 4 times and has won 4 World Championships. He is also a World Series of Fighting and a World Championship Weightlifting Coach. He has been a member of the UFC and is one of the fittest people I've ever met in the sport. He is a great dude and I really enjoyed talking to him. I hope you enjoy this episode and that you enjoy listening to this episode! If you like what you hear, please HIT SUBSCRIBE and leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. I'll be looking over the best ones and sharing them on the next episode. Thank you so much for all the support, it means a lot to me and I can't wait to make more episodes like this one! Cheers, Joe and Joe! XOXO, Kristian and Joe xoxo Music by Zapsplat (feat. (c) ( ) ( ) ( ( ) ( ) and ( ) . ( ), ( . & ( ) is a song written and produced by . and ( . . . ) ( ). and . . & is a production of the band, , , and . ( ) & ( ). ( ) , ) . ( , ( ) and ) is .( ) in the music is by my band, and is a tribute to the band ( ) in this episode ( . ) is produced by my good friend, , which is a group of my band and my band ( . ) and my music is , & ) and our logo and logo is by our logo, which is by , my logo is which is and logo and ), and , the logo is in the background music is also by my logo, ), which is my logo and my logo. , so you can be heard on this episode's logo, so you get a little bit of everything you can see in this podcast.
00:00:23.000I'm sad that you can't sell these snacks everywhere because I know you're working on making these mass-produced, but they're fucking fantastic.
00:03:03.000All of his inflammation relaxes and calms down.
00:03:07.000Turns out what was going on was the ibuprofen severely upsets your gut bacteria.
00:03:14.000And so when that happens, it causes systemic inflammation, which you then treat with ibuprofen.
00:03:20.000So he takes out the ibuprofen, all the gut problems go away, all the inflammation goes away, all his hip pains, knee pains, all that shit went away, which is crazy.
00:03:32.000I think ibuprofen is great if you do it every, just rarely.
00:03:40.000What I noticed when he shot that into my knee, within the next week, over the course of a couple days, I noticed that I had greater range of motion.
00:03:51.000So what it made me realize was, oh, I had a little inflammation in there.
00:03:54.000Because I kept thinking, is it the tissue tight?
00:08:35.000You raise up and then try to punch in that way.
00:08:38.000And I really feel like just with mixed martial arts, when you are doing wrestling, you have to be respectful that you're doing MMA fight, but kind of embody that.
00:09:18.000And they don't make that distinction, and then they don't produce, they don't optimize on their body and the power that they could produce.
00:09:24.000That's always been a big issue with MMA, is fighters trying to figure out exactly how to position themselves and how to move, and then all the variables, right?
00:09:34.000How many different ways there are to do it really successfully.
00:09:36.000Like, you see how Conor McGregor stands.
00:10:14.000But it's fascinating also how a lot of people that come from certain backgrounds, like even wrestlers who come from a wrestling background, they have to alter their own wrestling style for MMA.
00:10:25.000Like a lot of wrestlers, specifically guys who stand in an orthodox position when they're but if they were a right-handed wrestler, a lot of times they'd be standing in softball.
00:10:36.000And they'd be shooting with the right leg forward.
00:11:00.000When you see, particularly you, because you're a world champion Muay Thai fighter, and when you see the level of stand-up in MMA, for sure now, with women, it's the highest it's ever been, right?
00:14:36.000And she was my size, so I thought, you know, she wanted to wrestle too, so I was like, okay, I'll wrestle too, and yeah, I cracked something in there, and she didn't want to be my friend anymore.
00:16:47.000No, but that would be super painful to lose one of those.
00:16:50.000Apparently what happened with him is he was sparring and one last round decided not to wear his cup and went out there and slambo took one right on the sack and burst.
00:18:19.000I think one point, absolutely, and I think there should be a better way to determine whether or not a guy's eyes have been compromised by that eye poke.
00:18:29.000I mean, everybody wants to see the fight continue, but if you really had to think about it, like if this guy really can only see out of one eye...
00:18:55.000So they're just already ready to, you know, it's perfect.
00:18:57.000Well, there's someone that I know that's working closely with the UFC that's working on new design that I think is going to be far superior.
00:25:37.000Because what was interesting about this, it was like, do you remember when Shannon the Cannon decided to fight in K-1 and he fought Tom Erickson in a kickboxing match?
00:25:51.000But that was a similar thing, but Tom Erickson was a wrestler who was an MMA fighter, and Shannon Briggs ate a couple of leg kicks, and he was talking about it on the podcast, that he was trying to play it off.
00:26:03.000He was like, God damn, that shit hurt!
00:27:08.000And just moves away from the punches, sets, goes up high, goes up high a bunch of times, kicking into the arms, and then goes across the leg.
00:31:10.000There certainly is, but one thing that does happen when guys try to add a lot of things, like say, sometimes they'll try to, like, say a wrestler will add a bunch of things to his repertoire, but then they stop with their wrestling practice, so then their wrestling is not as sharp, and so then when they go up against a really good wrestler, they falter, and then they don't have what brought them to the dance in the first place.
00:31:34.000But I think that's just looking at your opponent, what's in front of you, and also being honest with yourself.
00:31:41.000Right now, I'm looking at getting back into fighting, and if I didn't feel the sharpness, I didn't feel the fire, and not just the fire, if I didn't physically feel the sharpness, if I didn't feel the reflexes, I'd have to be honest with myself and say, okay, don't do this.
00:31:57.000Do you think that you would 100% be capable of being rational and objective about what you can do right now?
00:32:47.000This one thing that I really like about individual sports, whether it's jujitsu or Muay Thai or boxing, is that you can focus on just one sport and all the various aspects of one sport.
00:33:03.000And there's so much subtlety and so much technique and so much to learn.
00:33:06.000I mean, you ever watch Floyd Mayweather Senior train people?
00:33:11.000It's really interesting because he's showing guys who are world-class fighters the subtle aspects of boxing and movement and things they're doing wrong.
00:34:53.000So the revenge, to have it in that last man standing tournament, which was a fucking crazy thing to begin with, where they were going to have to fight three times in a night.
00:44:32.000I definitely would have liked it if he didn't get knocked out again.
00:44:35.000But one thing that I would like young fighters to see is that there's consequences to choices in terms of how you approach These exchanges and how you fight.
00:44:48.000And I'm of a belief that you should fight the correct way.
00:44:53.000Don't fight the way that pleases your boss or the crowd.
00:44:56.000Fight the way you're supposed to with your skills.
00:45:01.000But don't get knocked out because you're trying to win by knockout and doing something that you're overextending yourself and exposing yourself and you're compromising yourself.
00:45:15.000I mean, it's fucking crazy and wild enough, but everybody wants every single second of it to be filled with blood and the crowd cheering and when they're not...
00:45:25.000I mean, how many times have we seen fights where just there's a lull in the action for a brief moment or they're clinching and people start booing.
00:45:31.000And then someone, come on, mix it up, boys, mix it up.
00:48:06.000When you do it, do you find that looking at it in a way where you're trying to explain it to someone who's also trying to do what you do, that it helps you understand what you do?
00:56:43.000And that's where I think there's more power.
00:56:47.000To people that have never fought before and people that don't understand fighting, they say, I don't get the appeal, I don't know why you watch it.
00:56:55.000One of the reasons, there's many reasons, but one of the reasons why people enjoy participating in it so much is because they're so...
00:57:04.000It's so much risk and it's so dangerous and it's so difficult, so unbelievably difficult to prepare, unbelievably difficult to put yourself in the proper mind state, especially to be a champion, to beat the best of the best, to get to the top of the heap, that once you do succeed, explain that feeling to people.
00:57:24.000Explain that feeling when they raise your hand and put that belt around your waist and the crowd is cheering.
00:57:32.000I'm kind of weird because I actually get depressed.
00:59:58.000You know, like, now, I'm more of a martial artist than I've ever been, and I'm more of a teacher and a student than I've ever been, and I'm more of a champion than I've ever been.
01:00:08.000How are you more of a champion than you've ever been?
01:00:10.000The way my outlook and the way I learn, the way I attack new information, the way how malleable I am, how quickly I take things on.
01:01:01.000So you have a better mastery over the things that you feel held you back and limited your potential when you actually were a world champion kickboxer.
01:01:12.000And so now it's more about self-expression.
01:01:18.000And now it's the pursuit of self-expression and it's the pursuit of authenticity and finding that moment to ride the razor's edge instead of playing it safe and staying outside but not having a satisfying fight.
01:02:56.000Oh, that was perfect, but let's move on to the next thing.
01:02:59.000And this sort of level of dissatisfaction with your performances, though, don't you think that that's ultimately what makes you such a champion in the first place?
01:03:08.000Alexander Gustafson put it best once when he was talking about one of his training camps.
01:03:12.000He's like, this is the life of a professional athlete.
01:05:05.000But I do, and I would, and have no problem with it.
01:05:10.000He definitely says, like, I need to go to classes, which I absolutely agree with.
01:05:13.000You know, as a high-level striker, any kind of striker, going into MMA, you need to go to the fucking classes and learn to swim in the deep end.
01:06:59.000It's really interesting because all the years that I did jiu-jitsu, it took this transition, which only took place within the last decade, like less than a decade, where it really started ramping up.
01:07:11.000Back in the day, if you were in a jiu-jitsu tournament and you did a leg lock or a heel hook, the crowd would boo.
01:07:37.000Well, what it is, is people that didn't understand the defense, so they would move the wrong way and get their legs blown apart.
01:07:45.000And nobody wants to get their legs blown apart in training, so they would discourage it in training and discourage it in competition because it was ripping people's legs apart.
01:10:05.000I'll text you all this stuff because I'm a fanatic about helping people with neck injuries because I had a pretty significant bulging disc that was making my hands numb.
01:10:15.000My elbow was always in pain, and I thought maybe I'd damage my elbow, and it turned out what was going on is the nerve, my disc was pushing against the nerve in my neck, and the ulnar nerve, which goes all the way down to your pinky tips, my fingers.
01:11:24.000There's little bones that are held in place by tendons and this gelatinous mush in between them, and in between is the fucking cord that communicates from your brain all the way down to all your limbs.
01:14:39.000I was doing a bit of CrossFit and a bit of just fight training.
01:14:46.000So I've been out so long that when I started getting back in, like I told you before we started, I went fucking crazy and that was a bad idea at 41 at the time.
01:14:57.000It was last year and I had a total body breakdown where it hurt to hold my cell phone.
01:15:01.000I had like burning pain in my forearms just holding my cell phone.
01:15:05.000How long did it take you to get to that spot?
01:19:44.000I mean, in Muay Thai, the Thai clinch, it's just that little difference of when you're putting the elbows into right in here and pulling into that little hook area.
01:20:53.000But what's funny to me as a Muay Thai world champion or ex-Muay Thai world champion is that I watch these things and I go, dude, that's so fucking easy to neutralize.
01:21:03.000Like you're just going to go like this.
01:21:11.000But I mean, to this day, there's still fights that I'll watch in the UFC where I'll see their grappling and I'll just go, Jesus fucking Christ, get your foot.
01:22:40.000But it's crazy that he's so scary and his striking is so dangerous that even Alistair, a guy who's been around forever, he fought so wild and open.
01:23:28.000I mean, Simon's only like 30. Simon Marcus, number one on Instagram.
01:23:33.000I think the real problem with Muay Thai and even with kickboxing is just a lack of promotion and a lack of understanding from the general public.
01:23:43.000To me, I get very excited whenever a glory event is on.
01:23:51.000It's an honor and pleasure to be able to work with boxing legend Floyd Miller Jr. Before I left the gym, he said, kid, you're going to be all right.
01:24:33.000Because he's a world champion and he's a devastating striker and he's fucked a lot of people up.
01:24:38.000But the limitations of the style that he imposes and the way he does it when he's trying to learn a different, more smooth way of doing things, you see the stiffness.
01:24:48.000So in the boxing, they generate that power from the feet and the rotating and the, you know what I mean?
01:25:10.000They're like, what the fuck is this bitch doing?
01:25:15.000For instance, the rear foot would be the gas, and then the front foot would be the brake.
01:25:21.000So you hit the gas, and you're going to go into the sprint, but as soon as you start getting the velocity for the sprint, you, bam, put the brake down.
01:25:27.000And then with that counter, the contradiction, the opposing forces, it erupts out the top from your arms and your fists into a powerful punch.
01:25:42.000And I think with Muay Thai, they just like step forward instead of rotating from their feet and their torso.
01:25:50.000Is there a benefit to that or does it complement the style of kicking?
01:25:54.000Probably more complementing the style of kicking.
01:25:56.000But I think that if you allow for rotation in your punches, you allow for the rotation in your feet so you can generate more power in your punches, you can still then take the necessary step out at an angle and then stepping high with your feet.
01:27:22.000Yeah, and then it kind of goes bleeding a little bit.
01:27:24.000And this is assumptive on my part, but in his eyes, when you look at him interacting with the doctor, it looks like, oh yeah, yeah, it's bad.
01:28:48.000Get into the end rounds when Petrosian really starts tuning him up.
01:28:52.000He's so interesting because he would just sort of find out where your openings were, where the rhythm was, where to move and where not to move, and where you're making mistakes.
01:30:13.000And again, this was like, Glory had seriously hyped up the fact that Giorgio Petrosian is one of the best ever, and undefeated, fantastic record, and Andy Ristey.
01:33:21.000Yes, but here's the thing, and this I wanted to talk to you about, because I know you had a rough childhood.
01:33:25.000The reality is, a certain amount of fucking you up gives you a certain amount of fuel that allows you to accomplish things that a person with a cushy life and always had a warm bed and always had plenty of love.
01:34:50.000I remember one time you and I were at a Muay Thai event together.
01:34:54.000You were there and I ran into you there.
01:34:57.000It's funny watching fights with you because you were gritting your teeth and then you looked over me and you go, don't you want to just fuck somebody up?
01:35:09.000Don't you want to just smash somebody's fucking face?
01:35:11.000I'm like, damn, Miriam, I've got to get the fuck away from you.
01:42:56.000And also this other thing is when you get fucking head kicked into oblivion that way, like you need a lot of time off, a lot of time with no sparring, no nothing.
01:43:05.000Especially just being so high, like being so untouchable and high and then coming crashing down to earth like that.
01:46:16.000Now, during all this time, I mean, this is...
01:46:20.000When Ronda's taking off and when Holly's taking off and Amanda Nunes is taking off, all this time is when you're at your peak.
01:46:29.000You're at your peak as a fighter and then you're dealing with all these fucking injuries and you're working your way to get into this circus.
01:46:38.000I mean, you're working your way to step into this arena.
01:46:40.000I mean, this is like, ultimately, this was your goal.
01:47:35.000Rock Study Boxing is a program for people with Parkinson's disease and it teaches them how to box and that helps them with their symptoms and their quality.
01:47:45.000It improves their quality of life and gives them a sense of, gives them a community to be in.
01:47:50.000And the interesting about Rock Study Boxing was I thought I was going to be, it was a terrible fit and I was terrified that I was going to hurt them and it actually was the best fit.
01:48:00.000And they loved being in my classes and I loved teaching them and like honestly they healed my heart.
01:48:07.000Like they healed that not good enough that I felt.
01:50:54.000When you asked me to be on this podcast, and I was like, holy shit, so this in turn would get my followers up, which in turn would make it so I could get paid more the next time I fight.
01:51:26.000But what I said to myself, because I did feel very nervous, and I do still, but what I said to myself was like, well, it wouldn't be happening if you weren't ready.
01:51:35.000So this didn't happen before when you were active fighting, you're winning all these world titles, like, you weren't ready.
01:52:08.000I mean, like, one of the things that the rock-steady boxing got me back and, like, helped heal my heart, but also the other thing was, like, I kept trying to train.
01:52:16.000I kept trying to, you know, and lose weight, but my knee was still fucking with me, and I'd get inflammation and this and that, and so finally I just said, you know what?
01:52:23.000I think Dominic Cruz did this, too, where he's just like, maybe I don't get to fight again.
01:53:13.000Do you think that, well, I think that for the average person that's watching this and doesn't understand this fixation on fighting, I think it comes back to what we were talking about before, that it's so difficult and so rewarding and so impossible.
01:53:31.000And you're finding out about yourself during this struggle.
01:55:28.000That fucking, like, you know, the hard crust layer that you gotta fucking dig under and, like, get in there and sort of through that stuff.
01:56:38.000Where I think a lot of people, when they first start out, they just do what they're told.
01:56:44.000Instead of questioning the concept, questioning the, you know, so it's just, I think the more mature I get, the easier, the more I know myself, so the easier it is to get the information that I need to master the thing.
01:59:00.000This is what I was talking about, being able to be authentic, express yourself from moment to moment, and not have to play it safe and stay back and stay outside and away.
02:00:12.000It's like my baby beginnings as a champion.
02:00:15.000So, do you also, first of all, you have a massive advantage in stand-up over most girls in MMA. Yeah, but it doesn't matter if I don't make the adjustment.
02:00:33.000Because, like, oftentimes, with a lot of MMA fighters, and Cesar Gracie said this to me, he's like, in MMA, the girls, they're like pit bulls.
02:00:43.000Like, they don't have the technique, but they get by on the toughness.
02:00:48.000So, like, with a pit bull, you have to kill it.
02:02:05.000So my dad had a beard growing up, and now I see all these 30-year-olds, 20-year-olds hipsters with their beard oil in their beards, and I'm just like, ugh.
02:02:45.000In the third world country where they just go like that and rip the head off the chicken.
02:02:48.000Well, it shows a severe lack of core strength.
02:02:51.000Because if you're doing deadlifts and if you're doing anything with your traps, you're going to develop a thick neck.
02:02:57.000If you're doing anything where you've got to hoist things up off the ground, you ever look at those motherfuckers in the Olympics that do deadlifts?