The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #49 with Miriam Nakamoto

00:00:00.000 Here we go.

00:00:02.000 4...

00:00:03.000 3...

00:00:04.000 2...

00:00:07.000 Boom.

00:00:07.000 And we're live.

00:00:08.000 Hello, Miriam.

00:00:09.000 Hi, Joe.

00:00:10.000 Good to see you.

00:00:10.000 Grab this mic and keep it like a fist from your face.

00:00:14.000 That's a good reference point.

00:00:16.000 Is this good?

00:00:17.000 Perfect.

00:00:17.000 Okay.

00:00:18.000 Perfect.

00:00:19.000 Does it look like that?

00:00:20.000 Yeah.

00:00:20.000 Good to see you.

00:00:21.000 It's so good to see you. 0.97

00:00:23.000 I'm sad that you can't sell these snacks everywhere because I know you're working on making these mass-produced, but they're fucking fantastic. 0.88

00:00:29.000 Yeah. 0.87

00:00:29.000 They're very good. 0.87

00:00:30.000 When did you first give me some of these? 0.96

00:00:32.000 Like five years ago or some shit? 0.96

00:00:33.000 2014. Something like that? 0.84

00:00:35.000 Yeah, my knee blew out.

00:00:40.000 I just had surgery and I needed something to do.

00:00:43.000 That was knee number one.

00:00:45.000 It was the second one.

00:00:46.000 That was the second one.

00:00:47.000 Yeah.

00:00:47.000 And I've had two more since.

00:00:50.000 So I've had four total.

00:00:52.000 The life of a world champion Muay Thai kickboxer is not an easy one.

00:00:56.000 No, it actually started when I started grappling.

00:00:59.000 That's when it started blowing your knee out?

00:01:01.000 Yeah.

00:01:01.000 Yeah, no.

00:01:02.000 Muay Thai was fine.

00:01:03.000 I got cracked ribs.

00:01:04.000 I got cut.

00:01:05.000 I got maybe concussions.

00:01:07.000 Maybe concussions?

00:01:08.000 Really bad.

00:01:08.000 Like, broke my elbow on somebody's head.

00:01:10.000 Oh.

00:01:11.000 Yeah, but no knee stuff.

00:01:14.000 It was MMA. Jiu-jitsu.

00:01:17.000 Yeah, wrestling and jiu-jitsu are rough on the knees.

00:01:20.000 I think this motion, I'm not awesome on the cartilage.

00:01:23.000 It's like a weird motion.

00:01:25.000 You mean like hip stuff?

00:01:27.000 Knees, when you do like that with your...

00:01:29.000 Mm-hmm.

00:01:30.000 Yeah.

00:01:30.000 So like on your back, like working your guard, that kind of thing?

00:01:34.000 That's what you think?

00:01:34.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:01:35.000 Well, I just, yeah, and 20 years of use on this body.

00:01:39.000 Mm.

00:01:40.000 Yeah.

00:01:40.000 Well, it does put, it puts weight in weird ways on your knees, too.

00:01:45.000 Like someone's trying to pass your guard and they're moving your ankles around stuff.

00:01:49.000 You have to swivel.

00:01:49.000 Yeah.

00:01:49.000 You have to swivel with their weight and their violence directed at you.

00:01:54.000 So, yeah.

00:01:55.000 I saw you getting a bunch of fluid on Instagram shot into there.

00:01:59.000 What is that all about?

00:02:00.000 I think it was like OrthoVisc.

00:02:01.000 What is that?

00:02:02.000 It did not help.

00:02:03.000 No?

00:02:03.000 That was a waste of money.

00:02:05.000 It was like a gooey fluid.

00:02:08.000 Yeah, it was like padding.

00:02:09.000 Oh, is that what the idea is?

00:02:10.000 But what was really nice was I got a straight shot of ibuprofen in there.

00:02:14.000 That felt amazing.

00:02:15.000 Yeah, like three months worth of ibuprofen just shot it right in there.

00:02:18.000 Really?

00:02:19.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:02:19.000 That shit is so bad for you though. 1.00

00:02:21.000 Is it? 1.00

00:02:21.000 It felt really good. 1.00

00:02:22.000 Yeah, I tell everybody, stay the fuck away from ibuprofen. 0.99

00:02:25.000 Really? 0.98

00:02:26.000 Yeah, Dr. Rhonda Patrick is the first person that alerted me to it, the increased risk of strokes and heart attack.

00:02:33.000 And then my friend Cam Haynes, who's an ultramarathon runner, he was taking 800 milligrams a day, every day.

00:02:41.000 Okay, for how long?

00:02:42.000 Forever.

00:02:43.000 That's a lot.

00:02:44.000 That's different.

00:02:45.000 It is different.

00:02:45.000 I just got one super shot.

00:02:47.000 Well, he basically runs almost a marathon a day.

00:02:50.000 Yeah, that's crazy.

00:02:51.000 Yeah, because he runs these 240-mile races.

00:02:54.000 So he was having these serious pains.

00:02:56.000 He's like, I need it to get going.

00:02:58.000 So I told him about all the heart attack stuff and the stroke stuff. 1.00

00:03:01.000 He's like, fuck. 1.00

00:03:02.000 So he gets off of it. 1.00

00:03:03.000 All of his inflammation relaxes and calms down.

00:03:07.000 Turns out what was going on was the ibuprofen severely upsets your gut bacteria.

00:03:14.000 And so when that happens, it causes systemic inflammation, which you then treat with ibuprofen. 0.92

00:03:20.000 So he takes out the ibuprofen, all the gut problems go away, all the inflammation goes away, all his hip pains, knee pains, all that shit went away, which is crazy.

00:03:32.000 I think ibuprofen is great if you do it every, just rarely. 0.73

00:03:39.000 Something's going on, you need...

00:03:40.000 What I noticed when he shot that into my knee, within the next week, over the course of a couple days, I noticed that I had greater range of motion.

00:03:51.000 So what it made me realize was, oh, I had a little inflammation in there.

00:03:54.000 Because I kept thinking, is it the tissue tight?

00:03:57.000 Is this homeboy shooting?

00:03:59.000 What is he shooting in here, this video?

00:04:00.000 Orthopisc.

00:04:01.000 This is that stuff that didn't work.

00:04:02.000 With no gloves on.

00:04:03.000 Yeah, wait, what's that about?

00:04:04.000 Everybody's always commenting about that.

00:04:05.000 Yeah, aren't you supposed to have gloves on? 1.00

00:04:07.000 What kind of fucking doctor is this? 1.00

00:04:09.000 Where were you? 1.00

00:04:10.000 In a garage somewhere?

00:04:11.000 In a free clinic.

00:04:13.000 Yo, look at you.

00:04:21.000 So, what is that OrthoVisc stuff supposed to do?

00:04:24.000 It's supposed to, like, give it padding.

00:04:27.000 Yeah, it didn't really help.

00:04:29.000 It was a waste of money and time. 1.00

00:04:31.000 How much did that shit cost? 0.99

00:04:32.000 I think it was, like, $200 or $220 a shot, and I got three of them. 1.00

00:04:36.000 Maybe it's for, like, regular people.

00:04:38.000 Maybe it would work for regular people, not for people that are throwing a lot of kicks.

00:04:42.000 The kicks don't bother me.

00:04:44.000 I bet it is in the kicks, right?

00:04:45.000 I think about that, like, it is grappling, right?

00:04:48.000 That is the thing that puts the most wear on your...

00:04:50.000 If you talk, like, you meet, like, old kickboxers. 1.00

00:04:53.000 I mean, some of them have brain damage, for sure.

00:04:56.000 Yeah.

00:04:56.000 But their bodies aren't as broken down as old grapplers.

00:04:59.000 No, they might be hobbling a little bit.

00:05:00.000 Their toes might kind of...

00:05:02.000 You see Rob?

00:05:02.000 Rob came in, remember him?

00:05:03.000 Oh, yeah.

00:05:04.000 Yeah, his toes were like...

00:05:06.000 Rob's foot looked like he jumped into a pool that was empty and landed on his big toe.

00:05:11.000 Yeah, all of them.

00:05:15.000 But when you're a guy like Rob has been kicking shins and elbows for so long, he's amazing. 0.99

00:05:23.000 It sucks. 0.93

00:05:24.000 It hurts my heart that he missed the curve. 1.00

00:05:28.000 He missed the fame wave.

00:05:29.000 Yeah, because he's brilliant. 0.99

00:05:32.000 He's fucking brilliant. 0.98

00:05:33.000 He really is. 0.97

00:05:35.000 And he helped a lot of fighters, too.

00:05:37.000 I mean, he was a big part of Brennan Vera's early success.

00:05:42.000 Yeah.

00:05:43.000 And that's when I was training with him, back in the old Bomb Squad days.

00:05:47.000 And he was working with a lot of kickboxers, and people were starting to catch on to his whole system.

00:05:52.000 I couldn't even...

00:05:53.000 I got to work with him, and I couldn't...

00:05:57.000 At the time, I was so...

00:06:00.000 Green as a fighter, or just as a martial artist, that I couldn't comprehend what he was trying to show me and tell me.

00:06:05.000 He's like, no, you're going to have programmed counters to the counters.

00:06:09.000 And he was trying to dial me in, program me in, and I couldn't keep up with him.

00:06:13.000 At the time, I wasn't at that level.

00:06:16.000 Well, you know what the difference is?

00:06:17.000 Some people just use athleticism and timing, and they just try to be creative.

00:06:23.000 What he does is he has a full system of what to do in varying positions and what to do depending upon your opponent's reaction.

00:06:33.000 But then on top of that, there's also creativity.

00:06:36.000 Mm-hmm.

00:06:37.000 Which is...

00:06:37.000 And savagery.

00:06:39.000 Oh yeah, he's a savage motherfucker. 1.00

00:06:41.000 Yeah, he's very savage. 1.00

00:06:42.000 His highlight reel, pull up Rob Kamen's highlight reel.

00:06:45.000 I mean, he knocked out... 0.89

00:06:47.000 And that porn stash. 0.93

00:06:48.000 Back in the Disney, right?

00:06:49.000 Yeah, the porn stash.

00:06:50.000 That's thin Rob Kamen.

00:06:53.000 It's really incredible when you think about how many great fighters came out of Holland.

00:06:58.000 And kickboxers in particular.

00:07:00.000 It's just one small country.

00:07:04.000 And here it is right here.

00:07:06.000 Get to see some of it.

00:07:07.000 Look at Rob Kamen pulling up in a motorcycle. 1.00

00:07:10.000 Sexy bitch. 1.00

00:07:12.000 So stoic too. 1.00

00:07:14.000 He looks so angry.

00:07:14.000 Well, back in the day he was, which is really interesting if you know him now because he's so friendly and huggy.

00:07:20.000 He's like a big fluffy dog.

00:07:22.000 Yeah, he's a fascinating guy.

00:07:25.000 He really is. 0.84

00:07:26.000 But his knowledge of kickboxing is just so fucking tremendous. 0.93

00:07:31.000 I love how he's sitting down on his punches like a boxer and like shifting his weight. 0.80

00:07:37.000 Because I don't see a lot of kickboxers that do that well.

00:07:42.000 Yeah.

00:07:42.000 They're still here, and then they rotate, rotate, but he's really kind of getting in here, like a boxer more.

00:07:48.000 Do you think that's because when you do dig down, you're sort of compromising your ability to throw kicks for a brief moment?

00:07:55.000 Because you're really digging in?

00:07:56.000 But he knows when to do it, too.

00:07:59.000 It's his fight IQ, right?

00:08:00.000 Yeah, it's knowing when to do it, and it's also...

00:08:06.000 My pet peeve with Muay Thai.

00:08:08.000 Look at him.

00:08:09.000 My pet peeve with Muay Thai is when they throw punches, they kind of come up.

00:08:13.000 It's like very triumphant looking, isn't it? 0.98

00:08:16.000 And it's like, that doesn't make any fucking sense. 0.96

00:08:18.000 Because you won't punch with power. 0.96

00:08:19.000 Not the same power.

00:08:21.000 And you can't get out of the way.

00:08:23.000 Why do you think they do that?

00:08:25.000 I just think they weren't taught well.

00:08:27.000 I wasn't.

00:08:28.000 I just recently started changing my style.

00:08:31.000 But when you kick, you're up.

00:08:33.000 You kind of come up into the kick.

00:08:35.000 You raise up and then try to punch in that way.

00:08:38.000 And I really feel like just with mixed martial arts, when you are doing wrestling, you have to be respectful that you're doing MMA fight, but kind of embody that.

00:08:50.000 You know, that wrestling technique.

00:08:51.000 When you're punching, you gotta embody that punching technique.

00:08:53.000 When you're kicking, you gotta embody that kicking technique.

00:08:56.000 Same with jiu-jitsu.

00:08:57.000 Like, you wouldn't stand as a Muay Thai fighter if you're doing a wrestling move in an MMA fight.

00:09:03.000 Of course.

00:09:03.000 And I think with Muay Thai fighters, they don't understand that.

00:09:06.000 It's like when you're punching, you need to kind of sit down and rotate.

00:09:09.000 You gotta hotate, I like to say.

00:09:10.000 Hotate?

00:09:11.000 Hotation.

00:09:12.000 Gotta have good hotation. 0.75

00:09:13.000 And then when they kick, they gotta come up.

00:09:15.000 When they knee, they gotta come up.

00:09:17.000 You know, it's different.

00:09:18.000 And they don't make that distinction, and then they don't produce, they don't optimize on their body and the power that they could produce.

00:09:24.000 That's always been a big issue with MMA, is fighters trying to figure out exactly how to position themselves and how to move, and then all the variables, right?

00:09:34.000 How many different ways there are to do it really successfully.

00:09:36.000 Like, you see how Conor McGregor stands.

00:09:39.000 Wide stands, kind of sideways.

00:09:40.000 He stands almost like a karate guy.

00:09:43.000 He's built it around his strong weapons.

00:09:46.000 Yeah.

00:09:46.000 Whereas different guys have, you know, different ways of doing, like, you know, Daniel Cormier, very different style.

00:09:52.000 You know, hands up high, moves forward, you know, a lot of bobbing and weaving.

00:09:56.000 He's much more like a boxer. 0.99

00:09:57.000 He doesn't really give a fuck if you get your hands on him, though. 0.99

00:10:01.000 No. 0.99

00:10:01.000 Where Connor does. 0.99

00:10:02.000 Right.

00:10:03.000 Where Connor's like, can you stay away from this?

00:10:04.000 Exactly.

00:10:05.000 Can you stay away? 1.00

00:10:06.000 And his is more like, come at me, bitch. 1.00

00:10:07.000 Yeah, grab me, bitch. 1.00

00:10:08.000 Like, I'm going to come and get you. 1.00

00:10:10.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:10:11.000 Exactly.

00:10:12.000 So it's different.

00:10:13.000 Yeah, it is.

00:10:14.000 But it's fascinating also how a lot of people that come from certain backgrounds, like even wrestlers who come from a wrestling background, they have to alter their own wrestling style for MMA.

00:10:25.000 Like a lot of wrestlers, specifically guys who stand in an orthodox position when they're but if they were a right-handed wrestler, a lot of times they'd be standing in softball.

00:10:36.000 And they'd be shooting with the right leg forward.

00:10:40.000 Judo, too.

00:10:42.000 It's a lot of weird...

00:10:44.000 MMA is such a different thing.

00:10:46.000 It's so different.

00:10:48.000 It's where all the pieces come together, and some of them don't line up that good.

00:10:53.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:10:54.000 I think the best people are the ones that can make it line up.

00:10:58.000 Sure, yeah.

00:10:59.000 With the most fluidity.

00:11:00.000 When you see, particularly you, because you're a world champion Muay Thai fighter, and when you see the level of stand-up in MMA, for sure now, with women, it's the highest it's ever been, right?

00:11:12.000 Like, right around now?

00:11:13.000 Mm-hmm.

00:11:13.000 But it's still not quite the level that you would see in, like, championship Muay Thai, except for girls like Valentina and Joanna.

00:11:21.000 Yeah.

00:11:22.000 She's amazing.

00:11:23.000 Yeah.

00:11:23.000 Cyborg, of course, is very scary.

00:11:25.000 I take...

00:11:26.000 Yeah, she is.

00:11:27.000 She's so nice.

00:11:29.000 Super nice, right?

00:11:31.000 Sorry.

00:11:31.000 Close here?

00:11:32.000 Yeah, you can move it around.

00:11:33.000 Oh, there we go.

00:11:34.000 There you go.

00:11:35.000 All right.

00:11:36.000 Yeah, have you met her?

00:11:38.000 Yeah.

00:11:38.000 Have you, like, really?

00:11:39.000 I feel bad for making fun of her.

00:11:40.000 I've made fun of her before.

00:11:41.000 Yeah.

00:11:43.000 She's very nice.

00:11:44.000 She's so nice.

00:11:45.000 She's just got, like, this really tender soul or heart, you know, which is funny.

00:11:52.000 Which seems genuine.

00:11:53.000 Yeah, very genuine.

00:11:54.000 Yeah.

00:11:54.000 Very, very genuine.

00:11:55.000 You see her smashing people.

00:11:56.000 Yeah.

00:11:57.000 Well, that's genuine, too.

00:11:58.000 Yeah.

00:12:00.000 So whatever it is, it's 100%.

00:12:02.000 And there's something really rare and so powerful.

00:12:08.000 Because people aren't 100%.

00:12:11.000 They aren't 100% fully heartbroken, wide open, soft.

00:12:18.000 And then they're not 100% violent.

00:12:21.000 And she's just like 100%.

00:12:23.000 So cool about her.

00:12:25.000 Yeah, that's interesting, right?

00:12:27.000 When she fights, she's 100% committed and violent. 0.99

00:12:31.000 And that's something that you see in a lot of champions.

00:12:38.000 There's an ability to be a really nice person and then a terrible person.

00:12:45.000 Not even a terrible person, a furious competitor.

00:12:48.000 Yeah.

00:12:49.000 You know?

00:12:49.000 Yeah.

00:12:50.000 When you first started fighting, did you just find that inside of you?

00:12:55.000 Did you know it was always there?

00:12:57.000 Because you're a person that, if I had to explain to you, you're very energetic and fun-loving.

00:13:05.000 You're a very nice person.

00:13:06.000 Skipping around your studio.

00:13:07.000 You're fun.

00:13:08.000 You're a fun person.

00:13:09.000 We probably met in like...

00:13:12.000 I want to say it was 2003. It was the Bomb Squad days.

00:13:16.000 I was about 28. Yeah, back in the...

00:13:20.000 And I'm 42. The Dizzy, right?

00:13:22.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:13:23.000 But you've always been like that, but then when I've seen you fight...

00:13:27.000 This is a different Miriam.

00:13:30.000 When Miriam comes to fight, it's like, oh, she's got a little switch in there. 0.93

00:13:34.000 You hit a switch, and then you become a different person.

00:13:37.000 It's not just that you're a competitor.

00:13:39.000 You become super hyper-focused and aware and ruthlessly aggressive.

00:13:47.000 Did you know that was always in you?

00:13:51.000 Before you fought?

00:13:52.000 I always knew that I would always have trouble with girlfriends.

00:13:57.000 And I don't mean like dating.

00:13:59.000 I mean like trying to have a girl that's a friend when I was younger because I would hurt them. 0.99

00:14:05.000 You'd hurt them physically?

00:14:06.000 Yeah.

00:14:07.000 Accidentally?

00:14:08.000 Yeah.

00:14:09.000 Like, what do you mean?

00:14:10.000 Like, I was wrestling around with this one woman. 0.96

00:14:12.000 I was like, yay, we're going to be friends.

00:14:13.000 We're like the same height.

00:14:14.000 And we're wrestling around, playing around.

00:14:15.000 We were, like, partying in Vegas.

00:14:17.000 And we're wrestling, and I wrapped my legs around her ribcage and squeezed and cracked something in there. 0.99

00:14:24.000 Oh, wow.

00:14:25.000 Where were you?

00:14:26.000 You were on the ground?

00:14:27.000 We went to like Utopia, and then we went to this after party afterwards.

00:14:31.000 And you were drunk?

00:14:32.000 I was like in my 20s, drunk or whatever, you know?

00:14:35.000 Or whatever.

00:14:36.000 Or whatever.

00:14:36.000 And she was my size, so I thought, you know, she wanted to wrestle too, so I was like, okay, I'll wrestle too, and yeah, I cracked something in there, and she didn't want to be my friend anymore.

00:14:46.000 She was mad at you? 0.97

00:14:47.000 Yeah, I was really sad.

00:14:48.000 Oh.

00:14:49.000 Yeah.

00:14:50.000 Well, you probably got off light.

00:14:52.000 Anybody gets upset that, you know...

00:14:54.000 Yeah.

00:14:54.000 It's not like you meant to hurt her.

00:14:55.000 No.

00:14:57.000 But I'd be pretty... 1.00

00:14:58.000 Why the fuck... 0.99

00:14:59.000 That is a weird thing that people do, right? 1.00

00:15:01.000 I mean, I've seen guys do it and girls do it. 0.99

00:15:03.000 Where they start play wrestling, but they have no fucking idea what they're doing. 0.98

00:15:07.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:15:07.000 And then they hurt themselves. 0.99

00:15:08.000 And they bite off more than they could, too.

00:15:10.000 Well, it's a common thing for whatever reason.

00:15:12.000 People get a little drunk or whatever, and then they want to wrestle.

00:15:16.000 So what I used to do is I used to let people play around with me, and then I ended up getting stabbed in the eyes.

00:15:22.000 Oh, with fingers?

00:15:23.000 Uh-huh.

00:15:24.000 Oh.

00:15:25.000 Yeah, so now I don't...

00:15:27.000 I'm like, alright, cool.

00:15:29.000 That's the number one problem.

00:15:30.000 I don't want to play with you anymore at MMA. For sure.

00:15:33.000 They're fucking close. 1.00

00:15:35.000 I fucking hate it. 1.00

00:15:36.000 There's so many guys. 1.00

00:15:37.000 Look at Michael Bisping. 0.99

00:15:39.000 He has one eye that's completely fucked up. 0.99

00:15:42.000 He's got oil in his eye. 1.00

00:15:43.000 They should penalize higher for that. 0.67

00:15:48.000 100%.

00:15:49.000 Yeah, I think that the behavior would decrease...

00:15:55.000 I think so, too.

00:15:56.000 I think one point.

00:15:57.000 I think one point for a nut shot and one point for an eye poke.

00:16:00.000 Just period.

00:16:01.000 You didn't mean to do it?

00:16:02.000 That's great.

00:16:03.000 But you did it.

00:16:03.000 Well, for the second nut shot.

00:16:05.000 No.

00:16:06.000 First nut shot.

00:16:07.000 Really?

00:16:07.000 First nut shot, first eye poke.

00:16:08.000 Because I don't have nuts.

00:16:10.000 So I'm a little bit more lenient on that one.

00:16:11.000 I'm like, eh, well, whatever.

00:16:13.000 Well, Brian Foster is a dude who fought for the UFC back in the day.

00:16:17.000 He lost a nut.

00:16:19.000 That's not funny.

00:16:20.000 How dare you?

00:16:21.000 I knew somebody.

00:16:22.000 Okay, so...

00:16:24.000 So it reminded me of this guy that was at the old Fairtex Clementina when Alex Gaughan was there.

00:16:30.000 So the rumor had it that he had one ball.

00:16:33.000 And he was kind of grumpy.

00:16:36.000 And sort of like insecure.

00:16:38.000 Because he only had one ball?

00:16:39.000 Yeah, I guess so.

00:16:40.000 So I just thought of him and it just made me laugh.

00:16:44.000 You just laughed?

00:16:44.000 Okay.

00:16:44.000 So it's not just balls in general.

00:16:47.000 No, but that would be super painful to lose one of those. 0.89

00:16:50.000 Apparently what happened with him is he was sparring and one last round decided not to wear his cup and went out there and slambo took one right on the sack and burst.

00:17:04.000 He's still fighting.

00:17:05.000 I saw him on a smaller, one of those, you know, like AXS TV fights.

00:17:11.000 It reminds me of like a breast implant.

00:17:13.000 It's ruptured.

00:17:14.000 Oh, that's so much worse than a breast implant.

00:17:15.000 It's all over the place.

00:17:16.000 If a breast implant helped you be a woman. 1.00

00:17:20.000 It would be like if a breast implant helped you be a woman. 1.00

00:17:22.000 Because that's like the sack that produces your testosterone. 1.00

00:17:25.000 What a stupid design. 1.00

00:17:27.000 He has half less. 1.00

00:17:28.000 Yeah, well, another buddy of mine lost one to cancer.

00:17:32.000 And he just impregnated his lady.

00:17:34.000 So it still works.

00:17:36.000 To you, Duncan.

00:17:37.000 To Duncan.

00:17:40.000 That's awesome.

00:17:41.000 Yeah, but... 0.99

00:17:43.000 We're talking about getting kicked in the balls. 0.99

00:17:45.000 Oh, yeah. 0.99

00:17:46.000 One point.

00:17:46.000 Just one point for eye pokes.

00:17:47.000 One point for ball shots.

00:17:49.000 Just take a point away.

00:17:50.000 Every time.

00:17:50.000 I think that would be giant.

00:17:52.000 I think that's fair. 0.99

00:17:53.000 It would fucking help. 0.96

00:17:54.000 There's so many people doing this. 0.98

00:17:55.000 The thing is, a good eye poke will change the fight.

00:18:01.000 100%.

00:18:02.000 It can sway the fight one way or the other.

00:18:04.000 Yeah.

00:18:06.000 And people, they've gotten poked in the eye.

00:18:10.000 The ref lets it continue. 0.99

00:18:12.000 And then they get fucked up. 1.00

00:18:13.000 And then they lose. 1.00

00:18:14.000 Yes.

00:18:15.000 A fight that they were winning.

00:18:16.000 Exactly.

00:18:16.000 Yeah, that's terrible.

00:18:17.000 It's terrible.

00:18:18.000 It's a huge swing.

00:18:19.000 I think one point, absolutely, and I think there should be a better way to determine whether or not a guy's eyes have been compromised by that eye poke.

00:18:28.000 And sometimes it's not within the...

00:18:29.000 I mean, everybody wants to see the fight continue, but if you really had to think about it, like if this guy really can only see out of one eye...

00:18:35.000 Yeah.

00:18:36.000 It's not right.

00:18:37.000 Yeah.

00:18:38.000 Especially when it wasn't their fault. 1.00

00:18:39.000 But it's also such a fucking shit design. 1.00

00:18:42.000 All your fingers are just out there. 1.00

00:18:44.000 Maybe they should just curve them more.

00:18:45.000 Yeah.

00:18:45.000 Like the same design just curved.

00:18:47.000 Like when you have a good hand wrap, like when they wrap your hands for the fight, when it's a good one, they just sit like this.

00:18:53.000 Yes.

00:18:53.000 Like your hands just sit there.

00:18:55.000 So they're just already ready to, you know, it's perfect.

00:18:57.000 Well, there's someone that I know that's working closely with the UFC that's working on new design that I think is going to be far superior.

00:19:03.000 But still, the fingers are exposed.

00:19:05.000 I think almost like the fingers should be covered.

00:19:08.000 How are they going to grab them?

00:19:09.000 I think you cover it like a bag glove.

00:19:11.000 You know how bag gloves, like those old school Everlast bag gloves?

00:19:15.000 That would be amazing for me.

00:19:16.000 Yeah.

00:19:17.000 For a grappler, I don't think they'd like that.

00:19:19.000 But I think it'd be good for a grappler, too.

00:19:20.000 If I had a grappler with bag gloves on, I don't think I'd have a problem with it.

00:19:24.000 The real problem is...

00:19:25.000 To grab the...

00:19:26.000 Maybe.

00:19:26.000 You know, like a wrestler?

00:19:28.000 I don't know.

00:19:29.000 I think the real...

00:19:30.000 I think it'd give you more traction, honestly.

00:19:32.000 Really?

00:19:32.000 The real problem is the pad on the knuckle, like when you're going behind the neck, when you're choking.

00:19:38.000 It's very hard to get that fucker behind the neck. 0.99

00:19:40.000 He really thought of it. 1.00

00:19:41.000 With all that padding.

00:19:42.000 It is.

00:19:43.000 It's hard.

00:19:44.000 I've grappled with, you know, I've never had an MMA fight, but I had grappled quite a bit with gloves.

00:19:49.000 What are these?

00:19:51.000 Those are the sparring ones.

00:19:52.000 It's typed in grappling gloves and something like that.

00:19:54.000 Yeah, those are just a little bit more padding.

00:19:58.000 But those, yeah, I mean, that's a little bit better.

00:20:00.000 Pride gloves are better, honestly.

00:20:02.000 Quite honestly.

00:20:03.000 Pride gloves really had much more curve to them.

00:20:06.000 Yeah.

00:20:06.000 And there was very few eye pokes in Pride.

00:20:08.000 I won't even fuck with a boxing glove that doesn't curve. 0.99

00:20:12.000 If I have to make a fist inside the glove, I'm not going to deal with that. 0.99

00:20:17.000 That looks good.

00:20:18.000 Someone had observed this a long time ago.

00:20:21.000 Look at the UFC gloves on the right and the Pride gloves on the left.

00:20:24.000 The Pride glove is your hands curved.

00:20:26.000 So that's a Pride glove?

00:20:26.000 Yeah.

00:20:27.000 It's a way better glove.

00:20:28.000 It's a way better glove.

00:20:30.000 And the back of your hand is like padded in a weird spot.

00:20:34.000 I don't know why they pad right here, like right above the wrist.

00:20:37.000 Where, wait, wait, wait.

00:20:38.000 Scope, make that, like right there.

00:20:40.000 The one, that one.

00:20:41.000 You know, though, if you did a spinning back fist and you hit, these are little bones.

00:20:46.000 Yeah, they do break.

00:20:48.000 But most of the time you're doing that, you're hardly ever doing it like a back fist.

00:20:51.000 You're kind of doing it like a hammer fist.

00:20:53.000 And then the real thing that's happening with a lot of fighters is they're hitting foreheads.

00:20:58.000 Snapping arms.

00:20:59.000 That's the one punch.

00:20:59.000 Paul Felder just did that.

00:21:01.000 If you hit me with it, I'll fucking... 1.00

00:21:03.000 You get mad? 1.00

00:21:03.000 I get so mad. 1.00

00:21:04.000 Why do you get mad?

00:21:05.000 I don't know. 1.00

00:21:06.000 It's just bullshit. 1.00

00:21:07.000 It's just bullshit. 1.00

00:21:09.000 Why is it bullshit? 1.00

00:21:10.000 It's a fucking bullshit ass. 1.00

00:21:11.000 I don't know. 1.00

00:21:11.000 It's a bullshit move? 1.00

00:21:12.000 It's just bullshit. 1.00

00:21:13.000 Some people have moves that they feel are bullshit moves. 1.00

00:21:16.000 Yeah, that's why I'm just offended. 0.99

00:21:18.000 Like if somebody axe kicked you.

00:21:19.000 No, I don't care. 1.00

00:21:20.000 That wouldn't be bullshit? 1.00

00:21:21.000 No, if they push kicked me in the face, I wouldn't care. 1.00

00:21:23.000 Okay.

00:21:23.000 I'd be like, alright.

00:21:24.000 But a spinning back fist?

00:21:25.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:21:25.000 Bullshit. 1.00

00:21:26.000 I'm offended. 1.00

00:21:26.000 But it's so good. 1.00

00:21:27.000 It's such a good technique, though.

00:21:28.000 I don't know. 0.99

00:21:29.000 I have some fucking cornball about that. 0.99

00:21:30.000 Okay, what about spinning elbows, though? 0.99

00:21:32.000 Yells are awesome.

00:21:33.000 Oh, that doesn't make any sense.

00:21:34.000 And I'm not great at them.

00:21:37.000 That doesn't make any sense.

00:21:38.000 I know, I know.

00:21:39.000 I contradict myself.

00:21:40.000 It doesn't have to.

00:21:40.000 It doesn't have to make sense, right?

00:21:41.000 Yeah, there's...

00:21:44.000 It is weird, right?

00:21:45.000 Yeah.

00:21:45.000 Well, I mean, I think they should allow spinning back fists in boxing.

00:21:48.000 Make boxing way more interesting.

00:21:51.000 Can you imagine?

00:21:53.000 How everybody would be so cocky, you know?

00:21:55.000 Oh my god.

00:21:56.000 So many guys would think they're safe.

00:21:59.000 Do you know how mad the boxing fans would be?

00:22:00.000 How many guys would get flatlined? 0.97

00:22:02.000 How many guys who don't know what the fuck to do about it? 1.00

00:22:05.000 Your standard fucking spin! 1.00

00:22:07.000 And Superman punches? 1.00

00:22:08.000 Yeah.

00:22:09.000 Well, Superman punches, I think, are legal, right?

00:22:12.000 Aren't they?

00:22:13.000 But they wouldn't react the same way, right?

00:22:15.000 No one would think you're throwing a leg kick.

00:22:17.000 What?

00:22:17.000 Why is mine...

00:22:19.000 Is it because...

00:22:19.000 Because you have all this hair.

00:22:21.000 Is it? 1.00

00:22:21.000 Yeah, I'm bald as fuck. 1.00

00:22:22.000 Oh, there we go. 1.00

00:22:24.000 There we go.

00:22:26.000 That's better.

00:22:27.000 Okay.

00:22:29.000 Yeah, but why can't they spinning back fist in boxing? 1.00

00:22:32.000 I don't know.

00:22:33.000 Should be able to.

00:22:34.000 They're purists.

00:22:35.000 They are very purists.

00:22:36.000 Yeah.

00:22:37.000 But I see where they're coming from in a certain way. 0.95

00:22:40.000 Like when boxers talk shit about MMA and striking in MMA, I see where they're coming from. 0.98

00:22:45.000 They're wrong. 1.00

00:22:46.000 Because your shit won't work. 1.00

00:22:47.000 Come try that shit. 1.00

00:22:49.000 You're going to get taken down, stupid. 1.00

00:22:50.000 This is the whole reason why they do it a different way. 1.00

00:22:52.000 But I actually do believe that a boxer with incredible footwork and a jab, a great jab, could survive and win in an MMA fight.

00:23:05.000 As long as he doesn't fight a long guy with good kicks, like a Jon Jones. 0.96

00:23:10.000 Jon Jones just kicked the shit out of you from a distance. 0.99

00:23:12.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:23:12.000 You're not even going to get close to him. 0.99

00:23:14.000 And then by the time you've eaten all those leg kicks, you're not moving so good.

00:23:17.000 Yeah, that's fair. 0.99

00:23:18.000 You're going to grab ahold of you and smash your face in. 1.00

00:23:19.000 I agree. 1.00

00:23:20.000 Yeah.

00:23:21.000 But yeah, I think footwork is the key.

00:23:23.000 Do you remember when Vince Foster, when he was not quite world class anymore, he'd lost the title? 0.98

00:23:29.000 See, this is what worries me because I don't remember shit. 0.96

00:23:32.000 You're way more of a fan than I am. 0.95

00:23:34.000 Well, he fought Masato when Masato was the king of K1 over in Japan.

00:23:40.000 Masato, the sexiest Japanese man I've ever seen.

00:23:43.000 Pretty sexy.

00:23:43.000 Yeah, he's super sexy.

00:23:45.000 But is he sexier than Sexy Yama?

00:23:46.000 I don't know who Sexyama is. 1.00

00:23:48.000 What?

00:23:48.000 Pull up Sexyama.

00:23:49.000 You don't know who Sexyama is? 1.00

00:23:51.000 Sexyama fought in the UFC several times.

00:23:52.000 Fought in Pride.

00:23:53.000 Oh, did he?

00:23:54.000 Yeah.

00:23:54.000 I don't know who that is.

00:23:55.000 That's a great name, though.

00:23:56.000 Gorgeous.

00:23:56.000 Gorgeous man.

00:23:57.000 I feel like that should be a super sushi roll.

00:23:59.000 There he is.

00:23:59.000 There's Sexyama.

00:24:01.000 Oh, no.

00:24:02.000 Masato's way better looking.

00:24:03.000 Yeah, you say that.

00:24:04.000 You're not in Sexyama's presence.

00:24:07.000 Look at that.

00:24:08.000 I like the way he glows.

00:24:09.000 Yeah, look at him.

00:24:11.000 Man, it's beautiful.

00:24:12.000 Look at those pecs.

00:24:13.000 Yeah, he's got that cross dangling super low.

00:24:16.000 What's going on with that?

00:24:16.000 So you look.

00:24:17.000 That cross, it's almost like a belly button ring or some shit. 0.98

00:24:20.000 That's a deal breaker, right? 0.99

00:24:21.000 A dude with a belly button ring?

00:24:22.000 How about that?

00:24:23.000 A guy, a gorgeous guy with a belly button ring.

00:24:25.000 That means he's freaky.

00:24:26.000 Is that what it means?

00:24:27.000 Or too vain. 1.00

00:24:27.000 Or gay as fuck. 1.00

00:24:29.000 More likely. 1.00

00:24:34.000 That's something men just never rocked.

00:24:36.000 I think it means he's freaky or he takes too many selfies.

00:24:39.000 Yeah, definitely.

00:24:40.000 Is that something any man has ever bravely tried to rock? 0.97

00:24:44.000 I know guys do nipple rings. 1.00

00:24:45.000 Like a real freaky dude will do nipple rings. 1.00

00:24:47.000 I think I've seen it once.

00:24:47.000 You've seen a belly button ring on a male?

00:24:49.000 I think so.

00:24:49.000 One time I saw a pierced...

00:24:52.000 Who's that?

00:24:53.000 Masato.

00:24:54.000 Masato.

00:24:55.000 Oh, there he is.

00:24:55.000 Beautiful.

00:24:56.000 I thought you were showing me a belly button ring.

00:24:58.000 There's better pictures of him.

00:24:59.000 He's really good looking.

00:25:01.000 Masato is very handsome.

00:25:02.000 And still is.

00:25:03.000 And still is very active in all sorts of promotions and stuff in Japan.

00:25:09.000 Did you see when he was going to fight Petrosian, and Petrosian was killing Saur.

00:25:18.000 What happened?

00:25:18.000 It was supposed to be his, like, goodbye.

00:25:21.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:25:22.000 And so he's watching Petrosian, I think it was Sour, destroy Andy Sour. 1.00

00:25:27.000 And he's just like, fuck this. 0.99

00:25:32.000 I'm good. 1.00

00:25:34.000 Pull up Masato versus Vince Phillips.

00:25:37.000 Because what was interesting about this, it was like, do you remember when Shannon the Cannon decided to fight in K-1 and he fought Tom Erickson in a kickboxing match?

00:25:49.000 I don't remember.

00:25:51.000 But that was a similar thing, but Tom Erickson was a wrestler who was an MMA fighter, and Shannon Briggs ate a couple of leg kicks, and he was talking about it on the podcast, that he was trying to play it off. 0.99

00:26:03.000 He was like, God damn, that shit hurt! 0.99

00:26:05.000 But he wound up KOing Tom Erickson. 1.00

00:26:08.000 But Tom Erickson, at the time, was not nearly the kind of striker that Vince Phillips was when Vince Phillips fought Masato.

00:26:14.000 Vince Phillips had...

00:26:15.000 Beating world-class fighters.

00:26:17.000 I think, who did he beat? 0.99

00:26:19.000 He beat some fucking high-level world-class boxers. 0.98

00:26:24.000 And then, you know, he got like 36, 37, 38, and then took this fight. 0.99

00:26:28.000 Was he 37 at the time?

00:26:30.000 I don't know.

00:26:32.000 So he fought Vince Phillips, but it was so weird seeing Vince Phillips walk out there barefoot.

00:26:38.000 I mean, they should have let him wear boxing shoes.

00:26:40.000 At least.

00:26:40.000 Because he's not throwing any kicks.

00:26:42.000 Yeah.

00:26:43.000 And Masato just...

00:26:44.000 Give me some...

00:26:46.000 Beautiful man.

00:26:48.000 Perfect bone structure.

00:26:49.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:26:50.000 He's ridiculous. 0.99

00:26:52.000 Perfect hair, too. 0.99

00:26:53.000 Yes.

00:26:53.000 Oh, yeah.

00:26:54.000 Oh, yeah. 0.99

00:26:55.000 And Vince Phillips is like, what the fuck did I sign up for? 0.99

00:26:58.000 Yeah, that feeling that they have when they know they're about to get leg kicked. 0.99

00:27:04.000 So, right away, it opens up inside.

00:27:08.000 And just moves away from the punches, sets, goes up high, goes up high a bunch of times, kicking into the arms, and then goes across the leg.

00:27:18.000 See, that's a weird one, right?

00:27:20.000 The across the thigh, nut shot.

00:27:22.000 I never throw that one.

00:27:26.000 But this was, this is at the time, like, one of the first times that a real world-class boxer had attempted a kickboxing fight.

00:27:36.000 I love that he did this.

00:27:38.000 Franz Botha did that too.

00:27:40.000 Do you remember Franz Botha?

00:27:41.000 He was a heavyweight contender in boxing in the 80s and 90s.

00:27:45.000 How much time a day do you dedicate to watching fights? 0.99

00:27:48.000 If you talk to my wife and ask her what she told me about 10 minutes ago, I will not remember what the fuck she said. 1.00

00:27:55.000 There's a lot of shit that I don't remember. 0.99

00:27:57.000 But I have storage units in my brain and stuff like, oh, that's interesting. 0.97

00:28:02.000 What happened there?

00:28:03.000 This happened.

00:28:04.000 Oh, why'd that happen?

00:28:05.000 Why did this go wrong?

00:28:06.000 Okay.

00:28:07.000 Pull up Giorgio Petrosian versus Andy Sauer.

00:28:12.000 S-A-U-E-R. Is it?

00:28:15.000 No.

00:28:15.000 How do you spell it?

00:28:16.000 Oh, here's Franz Botha.

00:28:17.000 S-O-U. Yeah, S-O-U. So Franz Botha, this is Franz Botha fat as fuck, too.

00:28:23.000 He had hit the wall. 1.00

00:28:25.000 He was the white buffalo.

00:28:27.000 He's a South African heavyweight.

00:28:30.000 But he actually learned how to kick a little bit.

00:28:33.000 And he was not just boxing guys, but his hands were just way better than most kickboxers.

00:28:39.000 Because he was at one point in time a real heavyweight contender.

00:28:43.000 This is not a good example of this.

00:28:45.000 This is 2015? 0.99

00:28:47.000 Holy shit, dude. 1.00

00:28:49.000 This guy was a fucking contender in the 90s. 1.00

00:28:53.000 He's already hurt. 1.00

00:28:55.000 He should have thrown a knee.

00:28:57.000 Did you watch the Chuck Liddell fight?

00:28:59.000 Just the end of it.

00:29:01.000 Yeah.

00:29:03.000 Not good, right?

00:29:05.000 How old is he now?

00:29:06.000 50. Damn. 1.00

00:29:08.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:29:09.000 So there's hope for me.

00:29:10.000 Oh wait, he lost.

00:29:12.000 Well, you've never been knocked out the way he's been knocked out so many times.

00:29:16.000 I don't think I've ever been knocked out.

00:29:20.000 Not in the gym, not ever?

00:29:21.000 Flash, flash knockdown, that's it.

00:29:23.000 Knockdown, yeah.

00:29:24.000 I've had concussions and been knocked out from, like, falling in the rain and falling off a second floor landing when I was a kid.

00:29:29.000 Right.

00:29:29.000 But in fighting, I never...

00:29:32.000 Chuck's...

00:29:33.000 Also, I think there was an issue with his style.

00:29:36.000 Because his style was so aggressive, aggressive, that people could just set, set, set, boom!

00:29:42.000 And counter...

00:29:43.000 Like Rashad Evans did with him.

00:29:45.000 And so you're getting his momentum coming forward and the shot and he would get flatlined.

00:29:50.000 He doesn't change.

00:29:52.000 No.

00:29:53.000 He doesn't evolve.

00:29:55.000 He had a style that was incredibly effective back in the day.

00:30:00.000 And I think he became married to that approach.

00:30:04.000 You know, the approach that worked so well on Babalu, so well on Tito in the early fights.

00:30:10.000 He was just a marauder. 1.00

00:30:11.000 You could hit him in the face with a fucking crowbar and he would just spit metal out at you. 1.00

00:30:15.000 He didn't give a fuck. 1.00

00:30:16.000 He was so badass back in the day. 0.99

00:30:18.000 He relied on that so much.

00:30:20.000 I remember all the Mohawks.

00:30:22.000 Yeah, the little kids.

00:30:24.000 They all like to wear Mohawks back in the day.

00:30:26.000 People are getting Japanese symbols tattooed on their head because of him.

00:30:30.000 Yeah, it's just...

00:30:32.000 That style comes at a certain point in time and you just can't do that anymore.

00:30:37.000 I think...

00:30:40.000 I don't know, like, it's a martial artist, you know?

00:30:44.000 And artists evolve.

00:30:48.000 And they're like, oh, well let me try this new paint.

00:30:50.000 Oh, let me try this new technique. 0.75

00:30:54.000 Let me try this shading.

00:30:56.000 Let me, you know, start sculpting.

00:30:58.000 Let me try.

00:30:58.000 And I think with, especially MMA, you know, there's so much opportunity to evolve.

00:31:04.000 Just add new nuances to you as an artist.

00:31:09.000 Okay.

00:31:09.000 I think that's what I love about it.

00:31:10.000 There certainly is, but one thing that does happen when guys try to add a lot of things, like say, sometimes they'll try to, like, say a wrestler will add a bunch of things to his repertoire, but then they stop with their wrestling practice, so then their wrestling is not as sharp, and so then when they go up against a really good wrestler, they falter, and then they don't have what brought them to the dance in the first place.

00:31:33.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:31:34.000 But I think that's just looking at your opponent, what's in front of you, and also being honest with yourself.

00:31:41.000 Right now, I'm looking at getting back into fighting, and if I didn't feel the sharpness, I didn't feel the fire, and not just the fire, if I didn't physically feel the sharpness, if I didn't feel the reflexes, I'd have to be honest with myself and say, okay, don't do this.

00:31:57.000 Do you think that you would 100% be capable of being rational and objective about what you can do right now?

00:32:03.000 Yeah.

00:32:04.000 Because I don't fight for participation awards.

00:32:09.000 I'm not like, hey, I'm a...

00:32:11.000 There's some UFC fighters that are like, I'm a UFC fighter.

00:32:14.000 Yay, I've made it.

00:32:16.000 That's not really making it.

00:32:18.000 You're just another...

00:32:19.000 Say, I'm a world champion.

00:32:21.000 I'm the best in the world.

00:32:24.000 I'm a UFC fighter is like a participation medal, basically.

00:32:29.000 Yeah.

00:32:29.000 Well, it shows that you're a very high-level fighter.

00:32:32.000 You're a very high-level professional fighter.

00:32:34.000 But you're not a champion.

00:32:34.000 Right, but in your eyes, you as a champion, that is what's important.

00:32:39.000 You want to be the queen.

00:32:40.000 You want to be the top of the hill.

00:32:41.000 We want to be your best self.

00:32:44.000 Yes, your best self.

00:32:46.000 Yeah.

00:32:47.000 This one thing that I really like about individual sports, whether it's jujitsu or Muay Thai or boxing, is that you can focus on just one sport and all the various aspects of one sport.

00:33:03.000 And there's so much subtlety and so much technique and so much to learn.

00:33:06.000 I mean, you ever watch Floyd Mayweather Senior train people?

00:33:11.000 It's really interesting because he's showing guys who are world-class fighters the subtle aspects of boxing and movement and things they're doing wrong.

00:33:20.000 You know Simon Marcus.

00:33:21.000 He was working with Simon Marcus and he was doing some training with Simon Marcus.

00:33:25.000 I'm like, this is so fascinating.

00:33:26.000 That had to be hard.

00:33:28.000 For a guy like Simon?

00:33:28.000 Yeah, because he's very rigid.

00:33:30.000 And he gets so much power from his rigidity.

00:33:33.000 And so boxing is much more, it's not rigid.

00:33:37.000 It's like hip-hop.

00:33:41.000 It's got that beat to it and that swag to it.

00:33:44.000 And Simon Marcus is just so...

00:33:45.000 That Muay Thai hard style and a lot of grappling and clenching and moving forward.

00:33:51.000 Yeah, he's a very physically strong guy too. 1.00

00:33:54.000 Yeah, he looks like he's on shit. 1.00

00:33:55.000 But he's not. 1.00

00:33:56.000 He does, doesn't he?

00:33:57.000 He's got good genes.

00:33:58.000 Yeah, great genes.

00:33:59.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:34:00.000 Do you remember Joe Schilling?

00:34:02.000 Yes.

00:34:02.000 And Simon Marcus?

00:34:03.000 Yes.

00:34:03.000 That beef.

00:34:04.000 Fuck. 1.00

00:34:05.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:34:05.000 That fourth round. 1.00

00:34:06.000 I do remember that. 1.00

00:34:07.000 What a fucking crazy fight. 0.99

00:34:08.000 I was there for that. 1.00

00:34:09.000 And there was all the controversy on the first one, right?

00:34:12.000 Because there was the illegal...

00:34:14.000 Was it illegal?

00:34:15.000 He hooked the back of the heel or something.

00:34:18.000 And then on the throat...

00:34:21.000 On the...

00:34:22.000 Yeah.

00:34:23.000 This is the first fight.

00:34:25.000 The first fight, Simon Marcus won.

00:34:29.000 But it was like he got knocked out, Joe did, from when Simon fell on him.

00:34:34.000 And he also put his foot behind his heel, I guess.

00:34:38.000 And there was a lot of conscious stories about that, whether that was legal or not in Muay Thai.

00:34:42.000 And then when he fell on him, I guess he hit Joe in the jaw with his forehead or something.

00:34:48.000 And so Joe got up like this.

00:34:49.000 Right.

00:34:50.000 Did you remember that?

00:34:51.000 Yes, I do now.

00:34:52.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0.52

00:34:53.000 So the revenge, to have it in that last man standing tournament, which was a fucking crazy thing to begin with, where they were going to have to fight three times in a night.

00:35:01.000 I don't remember that. 0.57

00:35:03.000 Was that?

00:35:03.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:35:04.000 So they fought in the first round.

00:35:07.000 Joe fought Simon, and it went three rounds, and it was a draw.

00:35:12.000 And so in the fourth round, they had to come out.

00:35:16.000 Both guys were like, holy, you know, Glory goes, one more round! 1.00

00:35:20.000 So they're like, fuck. 1.00

00:35:22.000 And Simon Marcus had kept spitting out his mouthpiece. 1.00

00:35:26.000 And Big John McCarthy took a point away.

00:35:29.000 He takes a point away from Simon, because Simon was exhausted.

00:35:31.000 Because they were going to war.

00:35:33.000 That's a trick.

00:35:33.000 Absolutely.

00:35:34.000 Absolutely.

00:35:35.000 He was spitting out his mouthpiece, trying to gain some time. 1.00

00:35:38.000 He's pretty fucking jacked. 1.00

00:35:39.000 He's so jacked. 0.99

00:35:40.000 And so now he's got one point down going into a fight that's a draw.

00:35:44.000 So he's got to move forward.

00:35:45.000 So he comes after Joe and Joe knows he's got to come at him. 0.99

00:35:48.000 So Joe starts countering and he catches him with this fucking nasty right hook. 0.99

00:35:56.000 I think it's coming soon. 0.99

00:35:57.000 Three or four seconds.

00:35:59.000 Well, it was a wild fight.

00:36:01.000 Just a wild series of exchanges.

00:36:04.000 And I think Simon...

00:36:06.000 Yeah, here it is.

00:36:06.000 Simon's moving forward.

00:36:07.000 Boom! 0.99

00:36:07.000 There it is. 0.99

00:36:08.000 And Simon had knocked Joe down early in the fight.

00:36:11.000 I think he knocked Joe down in the first.

00:36:15.000 Nice.

00:36:16.000 So Joe lost the first round and then probably won the second and third.

00:36:23.000 So it was a tie going into the fourth.

00:36:27.000 Wow.

00:36:27.000 Yeah.

00:36:27.000 It was a crazy fight.

00:36:29.000 Awesome fight though.

00:36:30.000 They actually fought in line fight too.

00:36:34.000 I've had a lot of concussions.

00:36:35.000 Could be wrong.

00:36:36.000 But I thought it was their first fight.

00:36:37.000 I think they have fought three times.

00:36:39.000 The controversy.

00:36:39.000 Yes.

00:36:40.000 And then the second fight was a lion fight.

00:36:42.000 And it was winner take all.

00:36:43.000 The purse.

00:36:44.000 And then I think it was glory.

00:36:47.000 Yeah.

00:36:47.000 I think you're right.

00:36:48.000 Yeah.

00:36:48.000 That was round two you got knocked down.

00:36:50.000 Yeah.

00:36:51.000 I loved Lion Fight.

00:36:53.000 I wish they had kept it on AXS TV. I don't know what the fuck happened. 0.99

00:36:56.000 I don't know where it is now. 0.98

00:36:57.000 I think it's like on a web app or some shit.

00:36:59.000 I was afraid to fight Lion Fight because of the judging. 0.95

00:37:03.000 Really?

00:37:03.000 Yeah.

00:37:04.000 There were some screwy decisions.

00:37:05.000 Yeah, I was just like...

00:37:06.000 But is that an athletic commission thing?

00:37:09.000 That seems more like an athletic commission thing than a Lion Fight thing.

00:37:11.000 But does it matter?

00:37:12.000 Because they keep doing it in the same spot, so it doesn't matter.

00:37:16.000 That's the case with Vegas, though. 0.99

00:37:18.000 I mean, Vegas has some terrible fucking judging sometimes. 0.99

00:37:21.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:37:22.000 And it's not... 0.94

00:37:22.000 I mean, I don't know how you fix that other than fire anyone who has any shitty decisions. 0.94

00:37:28.000 It seems like you can't even...

00:37:29.000 Can you petition?

00:37:31.000 You can, but nobody wins. 0.99

00:37:33.000 See, that's fucked up. 1.00

00:37:35.000 It is fucked up. 1.00

00:37:35.000 I can't imagine... 1.00

00:37:37.000 When has anyone, in your recent memory, or in your memory period, when has anyone appealed a decision and won?

00:37:45.000 I've never...

00:37:45.000 I've never heard of it.

00:37:47.000 That's crazy.

00:37:48.000 You think about all the fights that we've seen, and that we've never... 0.96

00:37:51.000 We can't even recall someone who got fucked, who went back and reviewed the tape.

00:37:57.000 Look, I'm hitting them 3-1, 2-1, and still lose the decision, which has happened. 0.95

00:38:01.000 That has happened.

00:38:03.000 There have been some egregious, horrible decisions.

00:38:06.000 What I hate about this is, I think that the judges don't really think about that it's our lives.

00:38:15.000 If I have this loss, because of your error, the next time I fight, I make less money.

00:38:21.000 And I'm already not making that much money.

00:38:23.000 You're not even thinking about what this does to me as a fighter.

00:38:32.000 I don't think that it's they're not thinking about that.

00:38:35.000 I think it's they're not competent.

00:38:37.000 I think there's certainly corruption, and there's certainly people that get bribed.

00:38:42.000 I guarantee that does still probably happen.

00:38:45.000 How do I guarantee probably?

00:38:47.000 I can't, right?

00:38:47.000 But I think more likely than that is you're seeing incompetence.

00:38:54.000 I think you're seeing people that don't have any martial arts training. 0.99

00:38:57.000 That's fucked up, though. 0.99

00:38:58.000 It is. 0.99

00:38:59.000 I don't know, that's ego.

00:39:01.000 Like, they can't admit that they don't know.

00:39:03.000 Oh my god, I had that.

00:39:05.000 It's like a government job. 0.97

00:39:06.000 I fucking had that at a, it was a WBC title defense. 0.96

00:39:11.000 And I'm doing completely legal throws, Muay Thai throws, and he's telling me no more slamming her on the canvas. 0.98

00:39:17.000 What?

00:39:18.000 He's like, he says, this ain't no jujitsu.

00:39:20.000 No.

00:39:21.000 Literally.

00:39:22.000 The referee says this?

00:39:23.000 You said his name.

00:39:27.000 That's Voldemort.

00:39:29.000 Oh my goodness.

00:39:31.000 Tanya Evinger wins.

00:39:32.000 Commission appeal.

00:39:33.000 Retains Invicta FC champion.

00:39:35.000 Wait a minute.

00:39:36.000 What is a commission appeal though?

00:39:38.000 What does that mean though?

00:39:39.000 She lost a submission and the other person was a champion for 13 days. 0.99

00:39:44.000 She lost by submission?

00:39:46.000 Huh.

00:39:48.000 What?

00:39:48.000 Yeah.

00:39:49.000 This was in at the end of 25th, 2016?

00:39:52.000 How is it overturned to a no contest?

00:39:57.000 I had that.

00:39:58.000 So what happened?

00:40:01.000 I googled your question and someone found some examples of it happening and this was one of the three I found.

00:40:06.000 Huh.

00:40:06.000 That's a little different because that seems like there was an error in the officiating.

00:40:11.000 And so if she lost by submission and they said it wasn't legit...

00:40:16.000 I had a decision overturned.

00:40:18.000 Did you?

00:40:19.000 Mm-hmm.

00:40:19.000 Really?

00:40:19.000 It was...

00:40:20.000 What's his name?

00:40:23.000 John Big Eye.

00:40:25.000 The big ref.

00:40:26.000 Okay.

00:40:27.000 What's his name?

00:40:28.000 John...

00:40:28.000 Big John McCarthy?

00:40:29.000 Big John McCarthy.

00:40:29.000 John Big Eye.

00:40:30.000 It's the big guy.

00:40:31.000 That's your new name, bro. 0.98

00:40:33.000 But I need a downed opponent in the head. 0.98

00:40:36.000 Oh.

00:40:36.000 But from where I was, I didn't realize that.

00:40:39.000 Mm-hmm.

00:40:39.000 So I need her once, and she was like this, and I was like, oh man, let me make sure this is over with, and I need her again.

00:40:45.000 But she was like 5'11", 6 feet-ish, Jessamine Duke, super, super long, and I didn't realize that her knees were on the canvas. 1.00

00:40:54.000 I didn't know Jessamine Duke fought Muay Thai. 0.99

00:40:56.000 No, this was an MMA. So I knocked her out, and then I put one for good measure, unfortunately. 1.00

00:41:04.000 And so he gave me the win, and then she appealed it, and then it got overturned to a no contest.

00:41:10.000 At least not a DQ. Because I didn't mean to do it.

00:41:13.000 I didn't realize.

00:41:14.000 Right, right.

00:41:15.000 That's interesting.

00:41:17.000 Because she would have gone out anyway. 1.00

00:41:19.000 Yeah, so I've kind of fucked myself. 1.00

00:41:22.000 I gave her a leg to stand on. 1.00

00:41:24.000 Yeah.

00:41:25.000 Yeah, that was like...

00:41:27.000 What organization was that in?

00:41:28.000 Invicta.

00:41:30.000 How many fights did you have in Invicta?

00:41:32.000 Oh, three.

00:41:33.000 Three?

00:41:33.000 I think.

00:41:34.000 Is that all the most MMA fights you've had?

00:41:37.000 Oh, you've had more than three, right?

00:41:38.000 Four.

00:41:39.000 Four?

00:41:39.000 I think four.

00:41:40.000 Okay.

00:41:41.000 Now, when you talk about coming back now, I know you're recovering from knee injuries and all this jazz.

00:41:48.000 And chunkiness. 0.95

00:41:49.000 Chunkiness? 0.99

00:41:49.000 You look great now. 0.99

00:41:50.000 Yeah, it's so much better.

00:41:52.000 Oh my god.

00:41:52.000 Is it because of Snack-O-Moto?

00:41:54.000 No.

00:41:55.000 Snack-O-Moto, healthy snacks.

00:41:57.000 Yeah.

00:41:58.000 Man, when you're 40 pounds overweight, you smell different.

00:42:01.000 Do you?

00:42:01.000 Yeah.

00:42:02.000 What do you smell like?

00:42:02.000 Just not yourself.

00:42:04.000 It's not yourself.

00:42:05.000 It's just not.

00:42:06.000 40 pounds is a lot.

00:42:07.000 It is a lot.

00:42:07.000 What were you eating?

00:42:09.000 Or not eating, or drinking all the time, and not working out, and limping because my knee was still fucked up. 0.94

00:42:15.000 Yeah, there was a lot of grief. 0.76

00:42:21.000 For someone like you, it's got to be hard too because you're so connected to your physical activity.

00:42:29.000 Oh yeah.

00:42:29.000 So to have that removed and taken away from you...

00:42:32.000 Well, I remember when you were talking about finding out who you really are, who you think you are.

00:42:37.000 Yeah.

00:42:37.000 And getting that injury, gaining all that weight.

00:42:39.000 I was like, oh, okay.

00:42:40.000 Who I think I am, I no longer have access to that.

00:42:43.000 Right.

00:42:44.000 So now who am I? And I spent the last five years trying to work that shit out. 0.99

00:42:49.000 So, yeah. 0.99

00:42:50.000 That happens to a lot of fighters when they retire.

00:42:53.000 Yeah.

00:42:53.000 Well, good thing it happened already.

00:42:55.000 Yeah.

00:42:57.000 What were you thinking while that time was up?

00:42:58.000 Because you've got to feel like, also, you're 42 now.

00:43:02.000 Yeah.

00:43:02.000 So this is all happening at 37, which is, you know, for some fighters, it's towards the end anyway.

00:43:08.000 Yeah.

00:43:08.000 No, I was doing well at 37. Yeah.

00:43:10.000 I was doing fine.

00:43:11.000 No, you were doing great.

00:43:12.000 Yeah.

00:43:13.000 But there's a reality of the clock.

00:43:14.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:43:15.000 When you look at, at least historically, everyone outside of Bernard Hopkins.

00:43:19.000 Yeah, he's amazing. 0.99

00:43:20.000 Fucking amazing. 1.00

00:43:21.000 Holy shit. 1.00

00:43:21.000 46 years old, fighting world class. 1.00

00:43:24.000 I mean, I think he beat...

00:43:25.000 Did he beat Kelly Pavlik when he was like 46?

00:43:29.000 I think he boxed Kelly Pavlik up when he was 46 and lost to Joe Smith.

00:43:33.000 I think he was 51 by the time we got knocked out and sent out of the cage or out of the ring.

00:43:38.000 I love that guy.

00:43:39.000 Yeah, I know.

00:43:39.000 He's amazing.

00:43:40.000 43 when he fought Pavlik.

00:43:43.000 But he's more conservative now when he fights.

00:43:46.000 Well, he's done, but yeah.

00:43:48.000 The recent stuff.

00:43:51.000 A masterful boxer. 0.98

00:43:52.000 Just absolutely understands everything about boxing and is not going to put himself in a position where he's going to get fucked up. 0.98

00:43:58.000 Until he couldn't help it anymore. 0.93

00:43:59.000 Like the Joe Smith fight, it was like, this has got to be the end.

00:44:03.000 And Kovalev too.

00:44:05.000 It felt like Kovalev was lighting him up.

00:44:06.000 I was like, oh, I don't want to watch this.

00:44:09.000 It hurts when you see somebody so incredible when it's done.

00:44:15.000 Yes.

00:44:16.000 Because they just...

00:44:17.000 Yeah.

00:44:18.000 Yeah.

00:44:19.000 You're so much better than this.

00:44:22.000 Especially when they're an artist.

00:44:24.000 When you see Chuck go out on his shield, something about it to me...

00:44:30.000 I don't like seeing it, for sure.

00:44:32.000 I definitely would have liked it if he didn't get knocked out again.

00:44:35.000 But one thing that I would like young fighters to see is that there's consequences to choices in terms of how you approach These exchanges and how you fight.

00:44:48.000 And I'm of a belief that you should fight the correct way.

00:44:53.000 Don't fight the way that pleases your boss or the crowd.

00:44:56.000 Fight the way you're supposed to with your skills.

00:44:59.000 And win by knockout when you can.

00:45:01.000 But don't get knocked out because you're trying to win by knockout and doing something that you're overextending yourself and exposing yourself and you're compromising yourself.

00:45:09.000 That's not wise.

00:45:10.000 And I think part of fighting has to be wise.

00:45:13.000 It's exciting enough.

00:45:15.000 I mean, it's fucking crazy and wild enough, but everybody wants every single second of it to be filled with blood and the crowd cheering and when they're not... 0.85

00:45:25.000 I mean, how many times have we seen fights where just there's a lull in the action for a brief moment or they're clinching and people start booing. 0.94

00:45:31.000 And then someone, come on, mix it up, boys, mix it up.

00:45:34.000 Like, what do you mean mix it up? 1.00

00:45:35.000 The fuck do you do? 0.99

00:45:36.000 What do you think they're doing, man? 1.00

00:45:37.000 They're fighting.

00:45:38.000 This is crazy talk.

00:45:40.000 You know, like, you see it all the time.

00:45:42.000 Social media brain.

00:45:44.000 There's a little bit of that.

00:45:45.000 Impatient.

00:45:46.000 Everybody wants to be a huge star, too.

00:45:49.000 Everybody wants to do their best to gain the most followers and get the most love and get the most applause.

00:45:57.000 There's a right way to fight and a wrong way to fight.

00:45:59.000 One of the things about watching a guy like Chuck go out on his shield like that, it's like, this is the bed he made.

00:46:06.000 I mean, this is his style.

00:46:07.000 His style is marauder, berserker, move forward, like Melvin Manhoof.

00:46:12.000 When you see Melvin go out on his shield, you go, look, this is Melvin's style. 0.99

00:46:17.000 He's either going to kill you or get killed. 0.96

00:46:19.000 Yeah, that's true. 0.89

00:46:21.000 But if you see a guy like Sugar Ray Leonard, and he gets KO'd, you're like, oh, Jesus.

00:46:26.000 Like, stop.

00:46:27.000 You can't do it anymore.

00:46:28.000 You can't move the way that made you successful.

00:46:32.000 Pernell Whitaker, something like that.

00:46:34.000 We see them, for whatever reason, they can't move right.

00:46:37.000 Do you remember Penel Whitaker?

00:46:38.000 I know the name, but I haven't watched his fights. 1.00

00:46:40.000 Damn, woman. 1.00

00:46:41.000 That's why I'm just laughing. 1.00

00:46:42.000 I'm like, man.

00:46:44.000 He was a defensive genius.

00:46:46.000 Olympic gold medalist, 76. I'm terrible.

00:46:49.000 So people will ask me about the Y crew, Ra Muayi, and I'm just like, I don't know.

00:46:57.000 It's both.

00:46:59.000 Or they'll ask me, how do you win a Muay Thai fight?

00:47:01.000 And I go, I don't know.

00:47:04.000 Do more damage. 0.99

00:47:05.000 Like, I don't fucking know. 0.98

00:47:07.000 What score is higher? 0.99

00:47:08.000 Elbow or knee or punch? 0.64

00:47:10.000 I don't know. 1.00

00:47:11.000 Just fucking win. 0.99

00:47:12.000 Right. 0.99

00:47:13.000 Like, I have no idea.

00:47:14.000 Were you ever thinking what score is higher?

00:47:15.000 No. 1.00

00:47:16.000 I'm just thinking, I'm going to dominate this motherfucker. 1.00

00:47:18.000 This is my space. 1.00

00:47:19.000 Yeah.

00:47:20.000 Like, this is my, you know, yeah, square circle or whatever.

00:47:24.000 Is that how you think about it?

00:47:25.000 This is mine?

00:47:26.000 Well, yeah, because you dominate the space and it's about territory.

00:47:32.000 And fighting is territory and you start and it's even and they have their side and you have your side and you take the territory away.

00:47:39.000 And you want them to feel like it's not their space anymore.

00:47:43.000 That's how you impose your will.

00:47:45.000 You know what I mean?

00:47:46.000 Yeah.

00:47:47.000 Yeah.

00:47:49.000 It's that simple.

00:47:50.000 I don't know. 1.00

00:47:51.000 I don't know about fucking points and this and that, and it's shit. 1.00

00:47:53.000 I have no idea. 0.99

00:47:54.000 Do you ever teach?

00:47:56.000 Uh, yeah.

00:47:58.000 Do you teach private lessons?

00:47:59.000 Do you teach classes?

00:48:00.000 Like, what do you teach?

00:48:01.000 A little bit, yeah.

00:48:01.000 Yeah.

00:48:02.000 Do you ever work with fighters?

00:48:04.000 Um, I have, yeah.

00:48:05.000 Yeah.

00:48:06.000 When you do it, do you find that looking at it in a way where you're trying to explain it to someone who's also trying to do what you do, that it helps you understand what you do?

00:48:17.000 Um...

00:48:20.000 Yeah.

00:48:21.000 Yeah.

00:48:22.000 But I definitely don't...

00:48:25.000 You don't like it?

00:48:25.000 No, no.

00:48:26.000 I still like this conversation the same.

00:48:28.000 It's more about the tone you're setting rather than the weapons you're using.

00:48:36.000 Because it's really just like there's that space and it's your job to own it.

00:48:44.000 You own the center of the ring.

00:48:45.000 You dictate where they go.

00:48:47.000 You take things away.

00:48:49.000 It's like an ex-convict trying to get a job.

00:48:52.000 The door is just shut in their face, shut in their face.

00:48:54.000 Everywhere they turn, shut in their face, shut in their face.

00:48:56.000 That's an interesting way to look at it.

00:48:57.000 That's how you want to make them feel.

00:48:59.000 Like you're a parole officer.

00:49:00.000 I don't want an ex-comic to not be able to get a job.

00:49:04.000 Right.

00:49:04.000 I know what you're saying.

00:49:05.000 But in the ring, you want to take shit away from somebody and make them feel very discouraged. 0.99

00:49:09.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:49:10.000 Yeah.

00:49:11.000 Like you don't belong here anymore.

00:49:12.000 And you know that.

00:49:14.000 You know?

00:49:14.000 Like that's what you want them to feel.

00:49:16.000 Yeah.

00:49:17.000 Yeah.

00:49:18.000 And you don't want to fight me again.

00:49:20.000 That's another thing you want to make them feel.

00:49:22.000 You know, like, there's these things.

00:49:24.000 You've got to understand what you're doing there. 0.97

00:49:27.000 But insofar as, like, what score is higher and what this and that, I don't fucking know. 0.98

00:49:32.000 I have no fucking idea. 0.88

00:49:33.000 It just goes off of like how my opponent is reacting to what I'm doing to them. 0.99

00:49:38.000 Right.

00:49:38.000 How they're reacting to me.

00:49:40.000 And that's what I'm going to throw.

00:49:41.000 Or where they move.

00:49:42.000 And that's what I'm going to throw.

00:49:44.000 I don't think about like, oh, is this going to score?

00:49:45.000 Should I throw this or this?

00:49:47.000 Which will score higher?

00:49:48.000 Right.

00:49:48.000 You can't.

00:49:49.000 I don't know. 1.00

00:49:50.000 It's fucking retarded. 1.00

00:49:51.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:49:53.000 It's not a wise way to think, I don't think.

00:49:56.000 I think, especially in something like Muay Thai, which so many fights win by knockout.

00:50:00.000 So many fights are won by knockout.

00:50:01.000 And it's such a devastating art.

00:50:04.000 You know, we think about just having the ability to kick and knee and punch and elbow and all these different weapons you're using.

00:50:11.000 I think Muay Thai doesn't hurt that much.

00:50:13.000 What does that mean?

00:50:15.000 What does that mean?

00:50:16.000 I think Muay Thai doesn't hurt that much.

00:50:18.000 You were talking earlier about breaking your elbow on someone's head.

00:50:21.000 Yeah, but that didn't hurt at the time.

00:50:23.000 At the time, it didn't hurt.

00:50:25.000 Adrenaline.

00:50:26.000 I don't know.

00:50:26.000 I mean, it just is like, just bam, and I'm like, whoa, she's bleeding.

00:50:30.000 It's crazy.

00:50:31.000 And the ref's pulling me off her. 1.00

00:50:33.000 I don't think about how it felt.

00:50:34.000 I don't think about when I got my ribs cracked from a kick in a Muay Thai fight.

00:50:40.000 I thought it was liver.

00:50:41.000 So I feel my pain.

00:50:43.000 I'm like, no! 1.00

00:50:44.000 And then I'm like, fuck you! 1.00

00:50:45.000 I'm in the fight! 1.00

00:50:46.000 And you pull yourself back out of that pain because you don't want to fall into the pain because it's hard to climb back up.

00:50:50.000 It's like swimming upstream. 0.99

00:50:53.000 So you can't fall into that fucking pain. 0.99

00:50:56.000 But it's not... 0.99

00:50:58.000 I mean, it's banged up.

00:51:00.000 But it's not that bad.

00:51:03.000 Well, you have a tolerance for it.

00:51:05.000 Yeah.

00:51:06.000 I mean, your shins will be bruised up. 0.87

00:51:11.000 You put a picture up on Instagram once of your legs.

00:51:14.000 No, that hurt.

00:51:15.000 No, that really hurt. 0.98

00:51:16.000 What day was that after the fight that your legs were that fucked up? 0.99

00:51:20.000 No, no, no. 0.99

00:51:21.000 That was right before I fought.

00:51:22.000 It was right before you fought?

00:51:23.000 Yeah, so I had three fights, and that one was right before the last one.

00:51:26.000 Oh, you had three fights in a day?

00:51:28.000 No, I had three fights over five days.

00:51:31.000 Oh.

00:51:31.000 Which made it worse, actually, because if the three fights had been in one day, then...

00:51:35.000 Jesus Christ.

00:51:36.000 Yeah, so they had a day between each, and so the pain would set in, and the bruising would set in.

00:51:40.000 Was this a Muay Thai tournament?

00:51:41.000 Yeah, it was IFMA. Was it in Thailand?

00:51:43.000 Uh-huh. 0.98

00:51:44.000 Oh, they're crazy over there.

00:51:46.000 It was cool.

00:51:46.000 I liked it.

00:51:47.000 That's wild, though. 1.00

00:51:48.000 But that shit hurt. 1.00

00:51:48.000 I'm sure. 1.00

00:51:49.000 That shit hurt for weeks. 1.00

00:51:50.000 Like, I couldn't roll over in bed. 1.00

00:51:52.000 Like, I couldn't.

00:51:53.000 You know how you stack your legs and you snuggle up in your position?

00:51:57.000 Couldn't.

00:51:58.000 I had to put a pillow in between them.

00:52:01.000 Yeah.

00:52:02.000 The bruising was behind on the calves.

00:52:05.000 I got kicked in the front, yeah.

00:52:08.000 But there's so much blood, internal bleeding from the bruising, it went to the back, to my calves.

00:52:13.000 So it actually encapsulated my whole leg in bruising.

00:52:17.000 And then it went down my ankles, both sides, and then down to my toes.

00:52:22.000 So when you took the pictures, that was you in between the second and third fight?

00:52:27.000 That was right before the third fight.

00:52:30.000 I was waiting.

00:52:31.000 It was the King's Cup.

00:52:33.000 So it was the King's birthday. 1.00

00:52:35.000 Fuck! 1.00

00:52:37.000 Yeah, and you can see my ankle, and it actually went underneath my toes. 1.00

00:52:41.000 And this is before you have to fight again.

00:52:43.000 Both legs were like that.

00:52:45.000 Both were like this.

00:52:46.000 And you have to fight again.

00:52:47.000 Yeah.

00:52:48.000 So do you know Wooden Man, Jang Sanan?

00:52:50.000 That's him rubbing me.

00:52:51.000 And so he tried to give me the Muay Thai.

00:52:53.000 They give you the pre-fight massage with the Thai limit. 0.99

00:52:56.000 He couldn't fucking touch me. 0.99

00:52:58.000 It was so bad. 1.00

00:52:59.000 How the fuck did you fight like this? 0.99

00:53:00.000 I don't know. 0.99

00:53:01.000 But I did.

00:53:02.000 That is so insane.

00:53:03.000 Yeah.

00:53:04.000 Your legs are so banged up.

00:53:05.000 The fact that you fought.

00:53:06.000 Yeah.

00:53:08.000 Yeah.

00:53:08.000 And so, like, mentally, I was just like, wow, this is happening.

00:53:13.000 I'm going to do this.

00:53:14.000 And I'd look at my legs.

00:53:16.000 Okay.

00:53:17.000 Okay, this is happening.

00:53:18.000 This is...

00:53:19.000 Okay.

00:53:19.000 Yeah.

00:53:20.000 Once you started fighting, what did you feel?

00:53:22.000 I don't think about that.

00:53:24.000 Like, sometimes you get kicked and it goes through.

00:53:27.000 Like, it gets through your foreshield.

00:53:29.000 You know, like, you kind of put up this, like...

00:53:31.000 I don't know.

00:53:32.000 When I fight, it's like I'm fighting and it's a force shield in a sense.

00:53:38.000 And sometimes if it hurts enough, like when I got my ribs cracked, I felt that.

00:53:45.000 Like it went through and I disrupted my force shield.

00:53:48.000 And so sometimes something would go through like a good solid kick.

00:53:51.000 Your force shield.

00:53:51.000 It's my force shield.

00:53:52.000 Force shield activate.

00:53:53.000 So you have your attitude, your mindset.

00:53:56.000 Yeah.

00:53:56.000 This is like you're fighting, you're ready to accept all sorts of things.

00:54:00.000 Yeah, like I could die. 0.99

00:54:03.000 Or even harder, I could kill someone. 0.99

00:54:06.000 Do you think it'd be harder to kill someone than to die? 1.00

00:54:09.000 Harder on you? 1.00

00:54:10.000 Yeah.

00:54:11.000 Yeah?

00:54:11.000 Because then you think about their loved ones.

00:54:16.000 So think about all the people that loved you.

00:54:17.000 We fight.

00:54:18.000 Think about all the people that love you, right?

00:54:20.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:54:20.000 And so when we fight, I didn't break any rules, but I killed you. 0.99

00:54:26.000 Right. 0.97

00:54:27.000 Think about all your loved ones.

00:54:29.000 Everybody that loves you that's attached to you.

00:54:31.000 Think about that.

00:54:34.000 All that pain.

00:54:36.000 Because of what I did to you, even though I didn't break any rules.

00:54:40.000 Have you ever been in a promotion where someone died?

00:54:44.000 But that's heavy, right?

00:54:45.000 Yeah.

00:54:46.000 And I think probably why a lot of fighters, I've noticed, like, there's...

00:54:55.000 I don't think the majority of fighters look at what they do with the gravity that it deserves.

00:55:04.000 You know, like you could kill somebody.

00:55:06.000 You need to think about that and be okay with that.

00:55:09.000 Not okay, but just understand like, all right, that could happen and I'm going to be consciously knowing this and choosing to go forward.

00:55:19.000 They just think, oh, I'm going to fight.

00:55:21.000 It'll be fun.

00:55:21.000 It'll, you know, whatever.

00:55:22.000 Or it'll be hard.

00:55:23.000 Or I'm going to, like, whatever.

00:55:25.000 They don't think about these things.

00:55:26.000 Is this something that you thought about when you were young?

00:55:29.000 Yeah, before I really got into it.

00:55:31.000 So this is something you've been contemplating even before you started fighting.

00:55:36.000 You were aware of all the possibilities.

00:55:39.000 Yeah, I... Okay.

00:55:42.000 All right, I'll say it.

00:55:43.000 So I was about 28, I think.

00:55:47.000 And I don't think I had my pro boxing debut yet.

00:55:52.000 And I took some mushrooms.

00:55:55.000 And I was thinking, somewhere along the trip, I started thinking about fighting.

00:56:00.000 And I started thinking about what could happen to me.

00:56:03.000 And I started thinking about the death of me.

00:56:06.000 And then I started thinking about what could happen to my opponent.

00:56:09.000 Like, what's worse than that?

00:56:11.000 And I thought about, I could see somebody at a fight and I saw all the lines of gold thread attached into them from their loved ones.

00:56:22.000 And then all the lines got snipped when they died. 1.00

00:56:25.000 Yeah, I saw this on this mushroom trip and I was just like, fuck. 0.99

00:56:29.000 And so then when I decided to fight, there's more intent, you know, and more commitment and more resolve. 0.99

00:56:37.000 That's heavy.

00:56:38.000 Yeah.

00:56:40.000 Yeah.

00:56:41.000 But that is what it is, right?

00:56:42.000 Mm-hmm.

00:56:43.000 And that's where I think there's more power.

00:56:47.000 To people that have never fought before and people that don't understand fighting, they say, I don't get the appeal, I don't know why you watch it.

00:56:55.000 One of the reasons, there's many reasons, but one of the reasons why people enjoy participating in it so much is because they're so...

00:57:04.000 It's so much risk and it's so dangerous and it's so difficult, so unbelievably difficult to prepare, unbelievably difficult to put yourself in the proper mind state, especially to be a champion, to beat the best of the best, to get to the top of the heap, that once you do succeed, explain that feeling to people.

00:57:24.000 Explain that feeling when they raise your hand and put that belt around your waist and the crowd is cheering.

00:57:32.000 I'm kind of weird because I actually get depressed.

00:57:36.000 You get depressed?

00:57:37.000 You get depressed when you win?

00:57:40.000 At times, yeah.

00:57:41.000 Or I'm just...

00:57:44.000 I think for me, what I've come to realize about myself is that it's about authentically expressing myself in the moment.

00:57:51.000 And I think with a lot of my fights, I wasn't being honest.

00:57:54.000 I didn't take my heart and cut it open and pour it out on the mat or the canvas.

00:57:59.000 I played it safe.

00:58:00.000 I didn't go in for the knockout.

00:58:02.000 I didn't slip a punching counter and get inside.

00:58:04.000 I stayed outside.

00:58:05.000 Or when I was inside, I would clinch up an elbow and knee.

00:58:09.000 You know?

00:58:10.000 So...

00:58:12.000 For me it hurts when I'm being inauthentic and I know that With pretty much all of my Muay Thai fights, I wasn't.

00:58:24.000 But is that the case, or is it you being hypercritical of yourself?

00:58:29.000 Always.

00:58:30.000 Always.

00:58:31.000 So I've actually, you just say, carry it on, and he can attest to this.

00:58:35.000 I've come out of fights and won the world title, done a great job, and I come into the gym the next week, and I go, carry it! 1.00

00:58:44.000 This was stupid. 1.00

00:58:45.000 I looked stupid. 1.00

00:58:46.000 I didn't do this right. 1.00

00:58:47.000 This is fucked up. 1.00

00:58:48.000 I can't fight like that again. 1.00

00:58:49.000 Like, we gotta fix that.

00:58:50.000 And I'm just like that.

00:58:52.000 But that's what makes a champion, though.

00:58:54.000 Yeah.

00:58:55.000 But mine was unhealthy.

00:58:57.000 So mine was more...

00:58:58.000 I think I'm more of a champion now than I ever was when I was actively fighting.

00:59:04.000 And when I was...

00:59:05.000 I was trying to be good enough...

00:59:13.000 Instead of just focusing on...

00:59:16.000 How am I gonna say this?

00:59:23.000 My...

00:59:26.000 My pursuit of world titles wasn't about—it was in defense of something that was told to me when I was growing up.

00:59:35.000 So it's like, I'm a world champion, so you can't tell—that's not true, because I'm a world champion.

00:59:40.000 So that's what that was about for me.

00:59:42.000 So it was about making up for a lack of love, a lack of appreciation for abuse.

00:59:47.000 Yeah, like, I'm not good enough, so I'm gonna win this world title and prove that I am good enough. 0.92

00:59:52.000 So, F you.

00:59:54.000 And that's not a pure place to express yourself from. 0.56

00:59:57.000 Right.

00:59:58.000 You know, like, now, I'm more of a martial artist than I've ever been, and I'm more of a teacher and a student than I've ever been, and I'm more of a champion than I've ever been.

01:00:08.000 How are you more of a champion than you've ever been?

01:00:10.000 The way my outlook and the way I learn, the way I attack new information, the way how malleable I am, how quickly I take things on.

01:00:25.000 How driven.

01:00:28.000 It's a lot easier to be champion when you have the six-pack and the muscles and the youth and everything to back that up.

01:00:36.000 But when you have those things taken away from you, then what is a champion?

01:00:41.000 What is it without those things?

01:00:43.000 It's your heart.

01:00:44.000 It's your desire.

01:00:45.000 It's your resolve.

01:00:46.000 It's your mind.

01:00:47.000 But using this expression, champion, why champion?

01:00:53.000 Because if you're a champion, you're competing against someone to become a champion.

01:00:57.000 I compete against myself.

01:00:59.000 Right.

01:01:01.000 So you have a better mastery over the things that you feel held you back and limited your potential when you actually were a world champion kickboxer.

01:01:12.000 And so now it's more about self-expression.

01:01:16.000 You're a more balanced person.

01:01:18.000 Yeah, definitely.

01:01:18.000 And now it's the pursuit of self-expression and it's the pursuit of authenticity and finding that moment to ride the razor's edge instead of playing it safe and staying outside but not having a satisfying fight.

01:01:31.000 Yeah.

01:01:32.000 You know?

01:01:33.000 Even though you won, not having satisfying fights because you could feel the flaws.

01:01:38.000 Yeah.

01:01:39.000 Well, I could just feel how I was holding back.

01:01:41.000 Right.

01:01:42.000 And it's like you can feel when you're in the zone and you go for it in 100% commitment and you're just in it.

01:01:46.000 You know, you're in it.

01:01:47.000 It's so authentic.

01:01:48.000 What fights have you had where you really felt satisfied?

01:01:55.000 I would say the fight after I fought Julie.

01:01:59.000 Yeah.

01:02:00.000 I went up in weight to fight her. 0.76

01:02:04.000 I went up to 140. It was a champion of champions.

01:02:08.000 She had 58 fights, I think 14 world titles. 0.94

01:02:11.000 I had 14 fights at the time and 6 world titles, I think.

01:02:17.000 That's pretty crazy.

01:02:19.000 14 fights, 6 world titles.

01:02:21.000 Yeah.

01:02:22.000 Yeah.

01:02:23.000 I started late.

01:02:23.000 Karian said that you were the most talented person he's ever worked with.

01:02:27.000 I would agree.

01:02:29.000 I would.

01:02:30.000 I would.

01:02:32.000 That's high praise.

01:02:34.000 What I noticed...

01:02:35.000 I mean, that's really amazing stuff.

01:02:38.000 Well, I'm malleable.

01:02:40.000 And I'm really dry.

01:02:41.000 I'm like, no, that's not right.

01:02:43.000 Do it again.

01:02:43.000 That doesn't feel right.

01:02:44.000 Do it again.

01:02:45.000 What are you doing?

01:02:46.000 What am I doing?

01:02:46.000 What does it look like?

01:02:47.000 What should it feel like?

01:02:48.000 Where's my pressure?

01:02:49.000 Where's the leverage?

01:02:49.000 What's this?

01:02:51.000 I'm like that.

01:02:53.000 No, it's not right.

01:02:55.000 Let's do it again.

01:02:56.000 Oh, that was perfect, but let's move on to the next thing.

01:02:59.000 And this sort of level of dissatisfaction with your performances, though, don't you think that that's ultimately what makes you such a champion in the first place?

01:03:08.000 Alexander Gustafson put it best once when he was talking about one of his training camps.

01:03:12.000 He's like, this is the life of a professional athlete.

01:03:14.000 You're just never satisfied.

01:03:15.000 He says, if you want to achieve greatness, you're never satisfied.

01:03:19.000 Yeah, no, I agree, but not with the way I was doing it.

01:03:23.000 So you were doing it, but you were doing it in a manic, almost unhealthy way?

01:03:28.000 Yeah.

01:03:29.000 Like, I could never just give myself that.

01:03:30.000 I'd never be like, alright, that was great.

01:03:32.000 This needs adjustments.

01:03:34.000 Alright, so here's the game plan.

01:03:36.000 You know, like, oh, here, you know, you did this, this is an accomplishment, or, you know, you conquered this, you took on this new skill.

01:03:44.000 Alright, let's give yourself that credit.

01:03:46.000 It was always, ah, never good enough, ah, never good enough, ah, never, never good enough, you know?

01:03:50.000 But is that never good enough fuel?

01:03:52.000 Like, is that thought, like, never good enough, never good enough?

01:03:55.000 No, it's definitely fuel.

01:03:56.000 It is, right?

01:03:57.000 But it's not...

01:03:57.000 Not healthy.

01:03:58.000 There's much more environmentally friendly fuel.

01:04:02.000 Like, this is, like, pollutants.

01:04:04.000 It's pollutants.

01:04:05.000 And as far as your life goes, right?

01:04:08.000 Yeah.

01:04:08.000 Yeah, I know what you mean.

01:04:10.000 Yeah, no, so I am working with...

01:04:13.000 I am, back at CSA, working with Kiryan, you know, but I told him...

01:04:19.000 For Muay Thai, I actually told Dave and Kiryan this.

01:04:25.000 Did I tell Kiryan?

01:04:26.000 Well, I guess I'm telling him now.

01:04:27.000 If I were to have a Muay Thai fight, obviously, I'm not going to, you know, I wouldn't be with anybody else.

01:04:34.000 Like he's, that's where the success has been.

01:04:37.000 That's where the formula works.

01:04:38.000 I'm not going to change that.

01:04:39.000 But now I'm also over at Gorilla Jiu Jitsu with Dave Camarillo.

01:04:46.000 Excellent coach.

01:04:47.000 Oh my God.

01:04:48.000 Genius. 1.00

01:04:49.000 Oh my, fucking Jedi Knight, dude. 1.00

01:04:51.000 He's a Jedi Knight. 1.00

01:04:52.000 Great guy, too. 1.00

01:04:52.000 Holy shit. 1.00

01:04:54.000 Yeah, he's amazing. 1.00

01:04:55.000 He's amazing.

01:04:57.000 But now I get to learn from him.

01:04:59.000 And so that...

01:05:01.000 Is he making you wear a gi?

01:05:03.000 He's not making me.

01:05:05.000 But I do, and I would, and have no problem with it.

01:05:10.000 He definitely says, like, I need to go to classes, which I absolutely agree with. 0.91

01:05:13.000 You know, as a high-level striker, any kind of striker, going into MMA, you need to go to the fucking classes and learn to swim in the deep end. 0.97

01:05:19.000 You have to. 0.99

01:05:20.000 And just be like, alright, this sucks. 1.00

01:05:22.000 I'm just getting, like, fucking armpit suffocated. 1.00

01:05:25.000 It's fine. 1.00

01:05:26.000 Just deal with it.

01:05:28.000 But with Dave, I can feel myself...

01:05:32.000 Changing into the fighter that I want to be.

01:05:36.000 How often do you do jujitsu?

01:05:38.000 Um...

01:05:40.000 Well, right now I've been traveling so not as much, but I was doing it like every day.

01:05:45.000 Yeah.

01:05:45.000 And with your knee, I know you have like a limited amount of mobility with one of your knees.

01:05:49.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:05:49.000 Does that get in the way of anything?

01:05:51.000 It does.

01:05:52.000 I definitely have to like...

01:05:53.000 Do you put a brace on it or anything?

01:05:54.000 No, I just communicate clearly with my training partners.

01:05:58.000 So funny thing is I love heel hooks.

01:06:04.000 And I've had four knee surgeries.

01:06:06.000 Isn't that weird?

01:06:07.000 It's a little weird. 0.99

01:06:09.000 They're effective as fuck. 0.99

01:06:10.000 That's the only submission I go for. 1.00

01:06:12.000 Really?

01:06:13.000 Heel, hook, knee bar.

01:06:15.000 Well, listen, it's a very good submission.

01:06:17.000 I mean, it's revolutionized jujitsu, really, over the last few years.

01:06:21.000 The leg lock game has really taken over. 0.94

01:06:23.000 Yeah, you're thinking, like, if somebody had that many surgeries, you'd be like, no, I'm not fucking with that. 0.89

01:06:27.000 Well, how about John Donaher? 0.92

01:06:28.000 I'm, like, getting in there.

01:06:30.000 John Donaher has a fake hip, he's got a fake knee.

01:06:32.000 Oh, wow, really?

01:06:33.000 His whole body's getting replaced.

01:06:35.000 He's a bionic man.

01:06:36.000 And he's one of the main minds at the head of the leg lock revolution.

01:06:40.000 Eddie Cummings being one of them and then a lot of the students, you know?

01:06:44.000 Awesome.

01:06:44.000 Gary Tonin, of course.

01:06:46.000 There's so many really good jujitsu guys now that are leg lock specialists.

01:06:51.000 Fascinating.

01:06:51.000 Craig Jones is like a whole new crew of up and coming guys that are leg lock specialists.

01:06:57.000 I love it.

01:06:58.000 Yeah, it's really interesting.

01:06:59.000 I love it.

01:06:59.000 It's really interesting because all the years that I did jiu-jitsu, it took this transition, which only took place within the last decade, like less than a decade, where it really started ramping up.

01:07:11.000 Back in the day, if you were in a jiu-jitsu tournament and you did a leg lock or a heel hook, the crowd would boo. 0.97

01:07:17.000 They would fucking scream. 0.98

01:07:19.000 They would scream even if you won by tap. 1.00

01:07:21.000 If you went to the Worlds and you heel hook somebody, people would freak the fuck out. 1.00

01:07:25.000 That's so dumb. 1.00

01:07:26.000 It's crazy. 1.00

01:07:27.000 That's what it used to be.

01:07:28.000 It used to be that they thought of it as cheap.

01:07:30.000 They thought leg locks and heel hooks and ankle locks, they thought those were cheap moves. 0.88

01:07:35.000 But it's literally part of the body.

01:07:37.000 Well, what it is, is people that didn't understand the defense, so they would move the wrong way and get their legs blown apart.

01:07:45.000 And nobody wants to get their legs blown apart in training, so they would discourage it in training and discourage it in competition because it was ripping people's legs apart. 0.72

01:07:52.000 Yeah, that's retarded. 1.00

01:07:53.000 Well, it's just a lack of understanding. 0.99

01:07:55.000 Look...

01:07:56.000 Your shoulder is a very complex joint. 0.99

01:07:59.000 We have zero problem manipulating the shit out of people's shoulders. 0.98

01:08:02.000 It's a weak joint, too. 0.99

01:08:04.000 It's a weak joint.

01:08:04.000 Tears apart.

01:08:05.000 Complex and weak.

01:08:06.000 Yeah.

01:08:07.000 And we have no problem with that.

01:08:09.000 Nobody says, we've got to outlaw the morals.

01:08:10.000 Crying about that.

01:08:11.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:08:12.000 Somehow or another, if you fuck your shoulder up where you can't wipe your ass, that's okay. 1.00

01:08:17.000 But if you fuck your knee up where you can't walk good. 1.00

01:08:20.000 Can you imagine if you can wipe your own ass? 1.00

01:08:22.000 Well, not a problem for you. 1.00

01:08:23.000 Oh, for my super toilet?

01:08:25.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:08:25.000 Fuck. 1.00

01:08:26.000 Those toilets are awesome. 1.00

01:08:27.000 I was going to take a picture of that and post that on Instagram.

01:08:30.000 Go ahead.

01:08:30.000 Feel free.

01:08:31.000 I tell people about them.

01:08:32.000 They're amazing.

01:08:33.000 That's awesome.

01:08:33.000 They keep it clean.

01:08:34.000 And plus, it's comfy.

01:08:35.000 It's like a warm seat.

01:08:37.000 As soon as I sat down, I was like, oh.

01:08:40.000 Nice, right?

01:08:41.000 Oh.

01:08:41.000 Yeah.

01:08:41.000 It's a good life.

01:08:42.000 This is the good life.

01:08:44.000 Yeah.

01:08:45.000 It's weird.

01:08:46.000 I mean, why is it okay to yank on someone's neck? 0.99

01:08:48.000 I mean, I know so many dudes with fucked up necks. 0.99

01:08:50.000 It's like all of jujitsu is bad for your body. 1.00

01:08:53.000 I have fucking... 0.99

01:08:55.000 Tingling right down my arm. 0.99

01:08:56.000 Right now?

01:08:57.000 When I sit in certain positions.

01:08:58.000 Oh.

01:08:59.000 From like just wrestling and jujitsu.

01:09:00.000 Did you get a MRI? Never happened.

01:09:02.000 No.

01:09:03.000 I guarantee I know what that is.

01:09:05.000 It's a pinched nerve.

01:09:06.000 Yeah.

01:09:06.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:09:07.000 It means you got a bulging disc.

01:09:08.000 No.

01:09:09.000 That's what it means.

01:09:09.000 Not all the time though.

01:09:10.000 Almost always.

01:09:12.000 No, the tingling.

01:09:13.000 Yeah, the tingling is probably because a nerve is being pushed on by a disc.

01:09:18.000 Yeah.

01:09:20.000 Most of the time, that's what that is.

01:09:21.000 Until the wheels fall off.

01:09:23.000 Yeah.

01:09:25.000 You can understand.

01:09:27.000 I saw that look on your face.

01:09:28.000 But the wheels are not off.

01:09:29.000 You can strengthen things and you can do a lot of... 0.94

01:09:32.000 Have you ever fucked around with spinal decompression? 0.98

01:09:35.000 Mm-mm. 0.99

01:09:36.000 There's a lot of really cool devices that you could do at home.

01:09:39.000 Just hang?

01:09:39.000 Yeah, you put this harness on that straps to the door and it like supports your head, like pulls on your neck.

01:09:46.000 Really?

01:09:46.000 It stretches and relaxes your neck.

01:09:48.000 Yeah, it's fantastic.

01:09:49.000 Okay.

01:09:49.000 Really good.

01:09:50.000 Yeah, that'll help a lot.

01:09:52.000 I'm going to sign that.

01:09:53.000 Yeah, sign that and then after...

01:09:55.000 We have pieces of paper you can write on paper.

01:09:58.000 I won't remember.

01:09:59.000 Okay, I'll text it to you.

01:10:00.000 It's got like yoga pants.

01:10:03.000 Really?

01:10:03.000 Yeah.

01:10:04.000 Okay, because I won't remember.

01:10:05.000 I'll text you all this stuff because I'm a fanatic about helping people with neck injuries because I had a pretty significant bulging disc that was making my hands numb.

01:10:13.000 Yeah.

01:10:14.000 I was really worried.

01:10:15.000 My elbow was always in pain, and I thought maybe I'd damage my elbow, and it turned out what was going on is the nerve, my disc was pushing against the nerve in my neck, and the ulnar nerve, which goes all the way down to your pinky tips, my fingers.

01:10:27.000 It's like over here, right?

01:10:28.000 Yeah.

01:10:28.000 Yeah, that was hurting.

01:10:30.000 So mine's weird since I broke my elbow on her head.

01:10:32.000 I'm sure.

01:10:33.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:10:33.000 It's all that inflammation and scar tissue and shit in there. 0.99

01:10:35.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0.96

01:10:36.000 But there's a bunch of different devices, too.

01:10:39.000 There's a thing called the Iron Neck that I love to talk to people about, too.

01:10:42.000 It's like a halo you put on, and it'll...

01:10:44.000 Help strengthen all this stuff up too.

01:10:46.000 I need that.

01:10:47.000 Yeah.

01:10:47.000 I'll show it to you after you do a podcast.

01:10:49.000 Is it like Muay Thai, you pull on my, I'm fine.

01:10:52.000 Right.

01:10:52.000 I'm totally fine.

01:10:53.000 But wrestling, like this and then that, it's different.

01:10:58.000 Weird head cranks, neck cranks.

01:11:00.000 Yeah.

01:11:01.000 Even jujitsu is not as bad as wrestling for me.

01:11:05.000 John John Machado always says, never trust your neck.

01:11:08.000 Just don't trust your neck.

01:11:10.000 Never think your neck's going to hold up.

01:11:12.000 Some guys, they'll shoot in for a takedown, someone will get them in a guillotine, and they'll just try to gut their way out of it.

01:11:18.000 Never trust your neck.

01:11:20.000 Never trust your neck. 1.00

01:11:21.000 That sucks. 0.97

01:11:22.000 Neck is a weird thing. 0.99

01:11:24.000 There's little bones that are held in place by tendons and this gelatinous mush in between them, and in between is the fucking cord that communicates from your brain all the way down to all your limbs. 0.99

01:11:35.000 That's hella sketchy, man. 0.99

01:11:36.000 And we're cranking on that thing.

01:11:38.000 This is the housing for the cord that keeps your body moving from your brain. 1.00

01:11:43.000 And people are getting your fucking chokes, crushing your neck. 1.00

01:11:46.000 It's crazy. 1.00

01:11:47.000 See, now when I do jiu-jitsu, I'm a whole different mindset. 0.99

01:11:50.000 I'm like, don't fucking touch my neck. 0.99

01:11:52.000 Yeah, don't touch my neck. 0.99

01:11:54.000 I'll sneak an elbow in there. 1.00

01:11:56.000 Don't touch my fucking neck. 1.00

01:11:58.000 Do you put your hair up in buns and shit? 1.00

01:12:01.000 Do the jiu-jitsu hair? 1.00

01:12:02.000 Yeah.

01:12:03.000 I'd try, but it's...

01:12:05.000 Yeah.

01:12:05.000 I want to shave my head.

01:12:07.000 Do you?

01:12:08.000 I'd want to.

01:12:09.000 You can pull it off.

01:12:09.000 But it's itchy.

01:12:10.000 Mine's all itchy.

01:12:11.000 Mine is all itchy when I do it.

01:12:14.000 You can pull it off.

01:12:14.000 You shave your head.

01:12:15.000 I've done it before.

01:12:16.000 You get a crew cut. 1.00

01:12:17.000 You'd look a badass bitch with a crew cut. 1.00

01:12:20.000 You should do it. 1.00

01:12:21.000 Why not?

01:12:22.000 Why not?

01:12:23.000 For a comeback fight?

01:12:25.000 Look, it's not a bad move.

01:12:28.000 I'm already 42. I've got to at least keep some kind of thing going.

01:12:35.000 Okay.

01:12:36.000 Yeah.

01:12:36.000 So I'm getting the lines.

01:12:37.000 I gotta at least try to play the game.

01:12:40.000 Rose Namajunas, she pulled it off.

01:12:43.000 I think Rose looks just as beautiful, if not more beautiful, with a shaved head. 0.97

01:12:46.000 She is...

01:12:46.000 You know, if she was an actress, she looks like an A-list actress, doesn't she?

01:12:52.000 Yeah, she's gorgeous. 1.00

01:12:52.000 And she has that presence. 1.00

01:12:53.000 But she doesn't give a fuck. 1.00

01:12:55.000 That's what it is, isn't it? 0.99

01:12:57.000 Yeah, that's a big part of what it is.

01:12:58.000 She's so interesting.

01:13:00.000 She's so present.

01:13:01.000 Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

01:13:02.000 Beautiful.

01:13:03.000 She is beautiful, but... 1.00

01:13:04.000 Beautiful person.

01:13:05.000 Yes.

01:13:05.000 Like, her heart and her...

01:13:06.000 Yes.

01:13:07.000 Yeah.

01:13:07.000 Yeah, no, she's amazing.

01:13:08.000 Yeah.

01:13:09.000 Yeah.

01:13:10.000 And I don't think they appreciate that as much.

01:13:13.000 They don't appreciate it enough, you know, like how gorgeous she is. 0.98

01:13:18.000 She doesn't get enough press or attention. 1.00

01:13:21.000 If she had her hair and she played the game, because she literally looks like a mini supermodel with little muscles. 1.00

01:13:28.000 Right.

01:13:30.000 Yeah.

01:13:30.000 Well, I remember when she fought Michelle Watterson, the karate hottie.

01:13:33.000 Everybody was making this big deal out of how hot Michelle Watterson is, who's very beautiful. 1.00

01:13:38.000 But so's Rose.

01:13:40.000 Rose is equally gorgeous, if not more.

01:13:42.000 But the look, it's a different type of look.

01:13:44.000 Like, Michelle Watterson would be, like, hosting a cable entertainment show, E! News or something, right?

01:13:52.000 And Rose Namajunas would be, like, the lead in a movie.

01:13:55.000 Right.

01:13:56.000 That's the difference in beauty.

01:13:57.000 She just has this like interesting look to her.

01:14:01.000 She has this kind of like a challenging beauty, you know? 0.80

01:14:04.000 Yeah.

01:14:05.000 And it's even her expression.

01:14:06.000 Yeah.

01:14:07.000 Where Michelle Watterson is, there's something much more comfortable about her beauty.

01:14:11.000 Like she's really exotic.

01:14:13.000 She's like Thai and white or something, right?

01:14:15.000 I think.

01:14:16.000 Yeah, she's gorgeous. 1.00

01:14:17.000 But she doesn't have something, she doesn't have that challenging thing. 0.85

01:14:21.000 Do you know what I mean?

01:14:22.000 Yeah.

01:14:22.000 No, I do know what you mean.

01:14:23.000 Yeah.

01:14:23.000 You can shave your head, dude.

01:14:25.000 You can pull it off.

01:14:26.000 I'm telling you.

01:14:27.000 I would look nowhere near as good as Rose.

01:14:30.000 Well, that's very nice of you.

01:14:32.000 So what kind of physical conditioning do you do if you don't do any iron neck stuff, no spinal decompression?

01:14:37.000 What do you do?

01:14:39.000 I was doing a bit of CrossFit and a bit of just fight training.

01:14:46.000 So I've been out so long that when I started getting back in, like I told you before we started, I went fucking crazy and that was a bad idea at 41 at the time.

01:14:57.000 It was last year and I had a total body breakdown where it hurt to hold my cell phone.

01:15:01.000 I had like burning pain in my forearms just holding my cell phone.

01:15:05.000 How long did it take you to get to that spot?

01:15:07.000 About four months of hard training.

01:15:10.000 Doing jiu-jitsu.

01:15:12.000 I was over at Half Gracie in San Francisco.

01:15:15.000 That's a hard spot.

01:15:17.000 Sometimes I do.

01:15:19.000 Kurt Oseander.

01:15:20.000 Whenever I talk to somebody that trained at Half, I go, ooh.

01:15:24.000 You swam with the sharks.

01:15:26.000 Yeah, I did.

01:15:28.000 How come you don't have Kurt on?

01:15:30.000 I love that guy.

01:15:32.000 Such a character.

01:15:34.000 He's just like that in person.

01:15:36.000 Oh, I'm sure.

01:15:37.000 He's just like that.

01:15:37.000 Well, we're both friends with Bourdain.

01:15:39.000 I just never got to meet him before.

01:15:40.000 Bourdain was alive.

01:15:41.000 Yeah.

01:15:42.000 I'm sorry about that.

01:15:45.000 He collects medieval weapons.

01:15:48.000 Of course he does. 1.00

01:15:50.000 And he'll shoot them. 1.00

01:15:51.000 I like how he fucking takes videos where you just see his feet. 1.00

01:15:55.000 He takes videos just of his feet and all his toes are all fucked up and taped up. 0.99

01:16:00.000 Have you seen his fingers? 0.99

01:16:01.000 Yeah, they're a mess. 0.99

01:16:02.000 Those gi guys, man, they just damage the shit out of their fingers. 1.00

01:16:06.000 I keep telling Kurt his big toe looks like one of those dildos in the Castro. 1.00

01:16:12.000 Yeah, it looks like a butt plug. 0.64

01:16:14.000 It's such a San Francisco reference. 0.97

01:16:15.000 Yes, yes.

01:16:15.000 Dildos in the Castro.

01:16:17.000 Yeah.

01:16:17.000 Oh, those places.

01:16:18.000 Yeah, it looks like a butt plug. 0.98

01:16:21.000 Yeah. 0.97

01:16:21.000 It's like that big. 0.97

01:16:23.000 It's a fucked up toe. 0.99

01:16:24.000 All those old gi guys, their hands just turn into gnarled messes because they're always trapped inside. 1.00

01:16:29.000 He looks like a mountain troll.

01:16:31.000 Yeah, a little bit. 0.79

01:16:32.000 He looks like a hobgoblin.

01:16:33.000 I love that guy. 0.92

01:16:34.000 Yeah, he's an animal.

01:16:35.000 He's like, what else does he do?

01:16:37.000 Yeah, and he's a great cook.

01:16:39.000 Is he?

01:16:39.000 Uh-huh.

01:16:40.000 Really? 1.00

01:16:40.000 And then also, fuck, what does he do? 1.00

01:16:43.000 Isn't he in a band? 1.00

01:16:44.000 He does a lot of acid.

01:16:46.000 He was in a band.

01:16:47.000 Yeah.

01:16:47.000 And he buys instruments.

01:16:49.000 He's like, I'm going to learn how to play this.

01:16:51.000 And then he's building additions onto his house.

01:16:55.000 Didn't he start his own school recently?

01:16:57.000 No.

01:16:57.000 Yes.

01:16:58.000 That, okay, that whole transition, that was like Game of Thrones.

01:17:02.000 Oh, really?

01:17:04.000 I don't know anything.

01:17:05.000 Which I'm not, I don't know that much about it.

01:17:08.000 I just remember like, everybody had little groups and was like, who are you with?

01:17:12.000 And it was just like, yeah, I'm not really used to that in Muay Thai.

01:17:16.000 I mean, there's some of it, but not like that.

01:17:19.000 That's happened in jiu-jitsu many times.

01:17:21.000 There's been many foldings and unfoldings.

01:17:24.000 Are you with me, my brothers?

01:17:26.000 And I'm just like, no, I'm with myself.

01:17:30.000 I'm just a blue belt.

01:17:31.000 I'm just a 12-year-old blue belt over here.

01:17:34.000 I don't really care.

01:17:35.000 Well, I guess I understand it because a really popular school can be incredibly lucrative.

01:17:39.000 And there's so many schools.

01:17:42.000 That's one of the weird things about California.

01:17:44.000 People who live in places without a lot of jiu-jitsu, they would go crazy here.

01:17:49.000 They wouldn't know where to go.

01:17:50.000 Where we are right now, we could drive in three minutes and go to five jiu-jitsu places.

01:17:56.000 I need you to recommend somewhere for me to train while I'm down here.

01:18:00.000 I'll get you a bunch of places.

01:18:01.000 But I mean, we're in the valley.

01:18:04.000 There's a place in Encino.

01:18:05.000 There's a place over here in Woodland Hills.

01:18:07.000 There's a place in Canoga Park.

01:18:09.000 There's a place over there.

01:18:10.000 There's a place over here.

01:18:11.000 That would be weird.

01:18:12.000 I didn't even think about that.

01:18:16.000 Being in an area where there's no jiu-jitsu.

01:18:18.000 Oh, there's places.

01:18:19.000 Yeah.

01:18:19.000 I mean, one of the things when Bourdain was really getting into jiu-jitsu, he was training every day, even on the road.

01:18:25.000 So he would travel.

01:18:27.000 It's easy.

01:18:27.000 Well, sometimes it's easy.

01:18:29.000 It's hard when you're a celebrity.

01:18:31.000 He would send me text messages about shitting out bone fragments because dudes would just be smashing him. 0.90

01:18:36.000 Because, you know, they wanted to sort of make an example out of some celebrity guy who wants to learn jiu-jitsu. 1.00

01:18:42.000 So stupid. 1.00

01:18:43.000 Crushing him. 1.00

01:18:44.000 But, you know, he would go to like when he was in Bozeman, when he was in Montana, there was no jujitsu there.

01:18:49.000 So he had to go to like a club.

01:18:51.000 I think it was in Billings or something like that.

01:18:53.000 So he had to travel to where they did this club and it was just a bunch of like enthusiasts that would get together.

01:18:59.000 It wasn't even like real teaching.

01:19:01.000 That's great.

01:19:01.000 You know, and he would train with them.

01:19:03.000 Play, like, have a TV with the video up. 1.00

01:19:06.000 That shit works. 0.99

01:19:06.000 And then work the move. 0.99

01:19:07.000 If you have a good video and a good athlete, you can learn something from that.

01:19:13.000 Or can-do attitude and a little bit of elbow grease.

01:19:16.000 A little bit of that, too.

01:19:17.000 I mean, I think there's never been a better time to do that than now, with all the YouTube videos.

01:19:22.000 I mean, it's really an incredible time.

01:19:24.000 Even if you're not in a place with really good jiu-jitsu, you can learn.

01:19:27.000 You can definitely find somebody who's good.

01:19:29.000 Don't you think you really need someone to go, no, no, here, now go like this.

01:19:33.000 And you're like, oh, there's the little subtle adjustments that someone knows from years and years and years of training.

01:19:38.000 It's all about the sensitivity of leverage.

01:19:42.000 It's just that sweet spot.

01:19:44.000 I mean, in Muay Thai, the Thai clinch, it's just that little difference of when you're putting the elbows into right in here and pulling into that little hook area.

01:19:55.000 Right, behind your head.

01:19:56.000 Right there.

01:19:57.000 I was working, helping some of the MMA guys at Gorilla with their tie clinch, and one of the wrestlers was grabbing up there.

01:20:06.000 Grabbing the back of your head?

01:20:07.000 Yeah, and it kind of looks like they're going to make out at a high school dance.

01:20:12.000 They try not to laugh, but it's hard.

01:20:15.000 That's funny.

01:20:16.000 I'm sure they want to laugh at me when I wrestle.

01:20:17.000 You just say it that way.

01:20:18.000 Say it to them.

01:20:18.000 I did.

01:20:19.000 And then they'd realize it.

01:20:21.000 I was like, don't kiss him, man.

01:20:23.000 Don't kiss him.

01:20:24.000 Maybe later.

01:20:25.000 This is not right now.

01:20:26.000 That is such an underutilized technique.

01:20:29.000 You know, a good plum. 0.75

01:20:32.000 Someone with a good Muay Thai clinch.

01:20:34.000 I mean, if you haven't felt it before, when someone can really grab...

01:20:38.000 I remember when Anderson Silva fought Rich Franklin, and Rich Franklin just did not know what to do with it.

01:20:42.000 Because Anderson grabbed a hold of it and just started smashing him with knees. 0.99

01:20:45.000 And you realize, like, the fucking clinch. 0.99

01:20:48.000 The way he would do it is so locked down. 1.00

01:20:51.000 He had such technique.

01:20:52.000 Right. 0.85

01:20:53.000 But what's funny to me as a Muay Thai world champion or ex-Muay Thai world champion is that I watch these things and I go, dude, that's so fucking easy to neutralize.

01:21:03.000 Like you're just going to go like this.

01:21:06.000 He didn't know what to do.

01:21:07.000 You don't have to be in that situation.

01:21:09.000 He didn't know what to do.

01:21:10.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:21:11.000 But I mean, to this day, there's still fights that I'll watch in the UFC where I'll see their grappling and I'll just go, Jesus fucking Christ, get your foot. 0.98

01:21:19.000 What are you doing? 0.99

01:21:21.000 This is white belt stuff. 1.00

01:21:23.000 This is blue belt stuff. 0.94

01:21:24.000 It surprises me when I watch that because I think like, you know, what do I know?

01:21:28.000 I'm like a high level striker. 0.98

01:21:30.000 But I'm like, you don't fucking know this? 0.98

01:21:32.000 And you're in the UFC? You don't fucking know this? 1.00

01:21:34.000 How do you not fucking know this? 1.00

01:21:36.000 You're dealing with people that come from all over the world, right? 0.99

01:21:39.000 Like, when Francis Ngannou fought Stipe Miocic for the title, right?

01:21:43.000 Literally, this really recent heavyweight...

01:21:45.000 I don't ever want to watch that again.

01:21:48.000 Yeah, it was rough to watch.

01:21:49.000 Ever.

01:21:50.000 Yeah.

01:21:51.000 Ever.

01:21:51.000 Terrible.

01:21:52.000 I don't really like watching heavyweights fight that much.

01:21:54.000 Why is that?

01:21:55.000 It's a little too slow.

01:21:57.000 It's usually not as technical.

01:21:59.000 That's true, but when they land...

01:22:02.000 Yeah.

01:22:03.000 I know.

01:22:04.000 But I mean, you can get people that are smaller and more technical and faster and they can land heavy punches too.

01:22:09.000 That's true.

01:22:11.000 Maybe because you're there live so you can feel the ground shake.

01:22:14.000 Or me, I'm just watching on the TV so I don't feel it.

01:22:16.000 Did you see when Francis knocked out Alistair Wolverine?

01:22:20.000 I think I did.

01:22:21.000 I think you need to see it again.

01:22:23.000 I think you need to see that again. 1.00

01:22:26.000 This is some life changing shit. 0.99

01:22:29.000 Watch this. 1.00

01:22:34.000 Yeah.

01:22:35.000 Watch this.

01:22:35.000 I know.

01:22:36.000 Look at this.

01:22:36.000 But with this left hook.

01:22:38.000 Whomp!

01:22:40.000 But it's crazy that he's so scary and his striking is so dangerous that even Alistair, a guy who's been around forever, he fought so wild and open.

01:22:50.000 His hands were down.

01:22:52.000 Yeah, where was his head movement?

01:22:53.000 And where was his head movement?

01:22:54.000 I mean, he was moved a little bit in the beginning.

01:22:56.000 The consequences are so scary.

01:22:57.000 Did you notice that in MMA? Yeah.

01:22:58.000 Very little head movement.

01:22:59.000 No head movement.

01:23:00.000 Yeah, very little.

01:23:00.000 No head movement.

01:23:01.000 Some guys are picking up...

01:23:03.000 Muay Thai, too.

01:23:04.000 Yeah.

01:23:04.000 No, especially Muay Thai.

01:23:05.000 No head movement.

01:23:06.000 Right, a lot of straight center line.

01:23:07.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:23:07.000 Yeah.

01:23:08.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:23:09.000 Well, when I think guys like Simon Marcus start working with Floyd Mayweather Sr. When did you start working with him?

01:23:17.000 I don't know.

01:23:17.000 How long has he been with him?

01:23:18.000 I don't know.

01:23:19.000 I just watch videos online.

01:23:20.000 Like, I want to see before enough.

01:23:21.000 Can I see one?

01:23:22.000 Simon Marcus, number one.

01:23:23.000 I want to see improvements.

01:23:24.000 I'm sure he's improving, but I don't know.

01:23:27.000 He's still pretty young.

01:23:28.000 I mean, Simon's only like 30. Simon Marcus, number one on Instagram.

01:23:33.000 I think the real problem with Muay Thai and even with kickboxing is just a lack of promotion and a lack of understanding from the general public.

01:23:43.000 To me, I get very excited whenever a glory event is on.

01:23:46.000 Here he is.

01:23:47.000 Whenever a glory event is on, give me a little.

01:23:49.000 Here it is.

01:23:50.000 It's been an amazing year.

01:23:51.000 It's an honor and pleasure to be able to work with boxing legend Floyd Miller Jr. Before I left the gym, he said, kid, you're going to be all right.

01:23:58.000 See, it looks good there, you know?

01:24:00.000 But, I mean, you're talking about a guy with just a tremendous amount of understanding of boxing.

01:24:06.000 Did you ever see when he fought Sugar Ray Leonard?

01:24:08.000 He's bending his legs, finally.

01:24:13.000 Simon Marcus.

01:24:14.000 Right.

01:24:14.000 Oh, he's shifting his weight, too.

01:24:16.000 As opposed to, like, the Muay Thai style.

01:24:18.000 Uh-huh, uh-huh.

01:24:18.000 Yeah.

01:24:18.000 It's hard for him, though.

01:24:20.000 Mm-hmm.

01:24:20.000 You see, it's not, like, it's not loose and easy.

01:24:24.000 It's like...

01:24:25.000 Right.

01:24:25.000 Yeah.

01:24:26.000 Yeah.

01:24:28.000 But it's hard for him to rotate.

01:24:31.000 Yeah, isn't it interesting? 0.87

01:24:33.000 Because he's a world champion and he's a devastating striker and he's fucked a lot of people up.

01:24:38.000 But the limitations of the style that he imposes and the way he does it when he's trying to learn a different, more smooth way of doing things, you see the stiffness.

01:24:48.000 So in the boxing, they generate that power from the feet and the rotating and the, you know what I mean?

01:24:55.000 Kind of like a gas pedal and a brake.

01:24:58.000 They're like, uh, uh, uh, uh.

01:25:00.000 And in Muay Thai, it's not like that.

01:25:01.000 When they punch, they're like, mm, mm.

01:25:04.000 When you say it, explain it for people just listening, because that's probably half the crowd.

01:25:08.000 Sorry. 1.00

01:25:10.000 They're like, what the fuck is this bitch doing? 1.00

01:25:15.000 For instance, the rear foot would be the gas, and then the front foot would be the brake. 1.00

01:25:21.000 So you hit the gas, and you're going to go into the sprint, but as soon as you start getting the velocity for the sprint, you, bam, put the brake down.

01:25:27.000 And then with that counter, the contradiction, the opposing forces, it erupts out the top from your arms and your fists into a powerful punch.

01:25:42.000 And I think with Muay Thai, they just like step forward instead of rotating from their feet and their torso.

01:25:50.000 Is there a benefit to that or does it complement the style of kicking?

01:25:54.000 Probably more complementing the style of kicking.

01:25:56.000 But I think that if you allow for rotation in your punches, you allow for the rotation in your feet so you can generate more power in your punches, you can still then take the necessary step out at an angle and then stepping high with your feet.

01:26:15.000 And get a great kick too.

01:26:17.000 You can have both.

01:26:19.000 Who do you think does it the best?

01:26:20.000 Who do you think combines the two things the best?

01:26:23.000 Oh, I love Petrosian.

01:26:24.000 Petrosian's one of the best ever. 0.99

01:26:26.000 Fuckin' love that guy. 0.99

01:26:27.000 So technical. 0.99

01:26:28.000 He's amazing.

01:26:29.000 That was what we were gonna watch.

01:26:30.000 Petrosian versus Andy Sauer.

01:26:32.000 And Masato's face.

01:26:34.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:26:36.000 I think it's about time to get the fuck out of this sport. 1.00

01:26:40.000 What the fuck? 1.00

01:26:41.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:26:41.000 That was so good. 1.00

01:26:43.000 Well, Petrosian stills at the top of the game.

01:26:46.000 How many years has it been?

01:26:48.000 It's been a bunch.

01:26:50.000 Ten?

01:26:50.000 I mean, he lost to Andy Ristey, right?

01:26:52.000 Was it Andy Ristey that KO'd him?

01:26:55.000 What?

01:26:56.000 That's another one.

01:26:57.000 I want to deal with paper, but I need to see this.

01:27:00.000 Giorgio Petrosian's Instagram.

01:27:04.000 Is this where he got KO'd, or is this the Sour Fight?

01:27:07.000 This is the Sour Fight.

01:27:08.000 He was so young here.

01:27:10.000 Wow, it might not be in RISTI. See, you can't Google it while you're doing this, can you?

01:27:16.000 We'll get to that afterwards, but yeah.

01:27:18.000 Oh, and so Sauer had this cut under his eye.

01:27:21.000 Before the fight.

01:27:22.000 Yeah, and then it kind of goes bleeding a little bit.

01:27:24.000 And this is assumptive on my part, but in his eyes, when you look at him interacting with the doctor, it looks like, oh yeah, yeah, it's bad.

01:27:32.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:27:33.000 You know what I mean?

01:27:35.000 It's further down in the fight.

01:27:36.000 Well, Giorgio is so technical.

01:27:39.000 And one of the more interesting things to me with Giorgio is watching him train, because a lot of it is drilling.

01:27:45.000 I mean, they do so much drilling.

01:27:47.000 Well, that makes sense because then you can get out of the way.

01:27:50.000 Yeah.

01:27:51.000 Well, he knows exactly what to do.

01:27:52.000 His brain and his mind are in sync with what to do in the middle of a furious battle so that he doesn't have to think too much.

01:27:59.000 So see that Masato's excited.

01:28:00.000 He's like, excited.

01:28:01.000 This is exciting.

01:28:02.000 What's going to happen?

01:28:03.000 Not towards the end.

01:28:04.000 Uh-uh. 1.00

01:28:06.000 Look at those fucking horses. 1.00

01:28:08.000 K-1 is awesome. 1.00

01:28:10.000 K-1 is fucking amazing. 0.85

01:28:12.000 I just wish that kickboxing got more press and more excitement in America because I think it's more exciting than boxing. 0.94

01:28:21.000 There's more to look at.

01:28:23.000 With American champions, you're seeing fantastic knockouts.

01:28:28.000 You're seeing amazing wins.

01:28:30.000 The only one who's really doing all the sports at a high level is Gaston.

01:28:35.000 Okay, see look.

01:28:36.000 Look at his face now.

01:28:37.000 He's like, wait a minute.

01:28:40.000 This is after the first round. 1.00

01:28:42.000 Yeah, he's like, oh shit. 0.99

01:28:43.000 Does this go to the distance? 1.00

01:28:47.000 Yeah, I think it did.

01:28:48.000 Get into the end rounds when Petrosian really starts tuning him up.

01:28:52.000 He's so interesting because he would just sort of find out where your openings were, where the rhythm was, where to move and where not to move, and where you're making mistakes.

01:29:02.000 Like a computer.

01:29:03.000 And you'd just see him plug in the techniques to fill those holes.

01:29:07.000 And you'd see like the little subtle steps and, you know...

01:29:11.000 He always knows what you're going to throw next, or where you're going to be, or what you're going to do, you know?

01:29:16.000 Yeah.

01:29:17.000 He's so amazing.

01:29:18.000 Oh, there's the cut.

01:29:19.000 He's one of the best ever, for sure.

01:29:21.000 Yeah.

01:29:21.000 And just an interesting guy to watch.

01:29:24.000 He doesn't look like he's doing much.

01:29:27.000 Like, look at that.

01:29:28.000 He barely moved.

01:29:29.000 Right, doesn't look like he's doing much different.

01:29:31.000 Like, Sour's like, in and out, bouncing, da-da-da.

01:29:33.000 But Petrosian's just right there.

01:29:35.000 He's barely moving.

01:29:36.000 Look at that.

01:29:38.000 Just moving just enough.

01:29:39.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:29:41.000 Somebody KO'd him in glory.

01:29:43.000 And like I said, I think it's Andy Ristie.

01:29:45.000 Pull up Giorgio Petrosian's record.

01:29:50.000 I'm like, what?

01:29:51.000 Yeah, it was really shocking.

01:29:52.000 And it was in the big Madison Square Garden debut.

01:29:55.000 Oh, Ristie is black, right? 0.99

01:29:57.000 Yeah. 0.97

01:29:57.000 It's like lanky. 0.97

01:29:59.000 Power Striker.

01:30:00.000 Did I see this?

01:30:01.000 I think it was Ristie.

01:30:02.000 I might have seen this.

01:30:03.000 Is it Ristie?

01:30:03.000 Yeah, it was.

01:30:04.000 He hits fucking hard. 0.99

01:30:06.000 And he caught Giorgio and boom, the lights went out. 1.00

01:30:09.000 Yeah, first round, too.

01:30:11.000 What?

01:30:12.000 Yeah, it was crazy.

01:30:13.000 And again, this was like, Glory had seriously hyped up the fact that Giorgio Petrosian is one of the best ever, and undefeated, fantastic record, and Andy Ristey.

01:30:25.000 Maybe it was the beard.

01:30:26.000 I don't think it was.

01:30:27.000 I think he just got clipped.

01:30:30.000 And maybe it was also a lot of pressure, right?

01:30:32.000 You know, fighting in Madison Square Garden, fighting in glory, glory, putting all this stuff behind him. 0.70

01:30:37.000 You know, the thing is, too, nobody ever knows what the fuck is going on with a fighter when they're coming into a fight, right?

01:30:43.000 You could be dealing with injuries, sickness, training camp, bad weight cut, girlfriend.

01:30:48.000 I was talking to a friend of mine, and they were talking about how they were dealing with their coach.

01:30:55.000 Drug use.

01:30:56.000 Their coach had a drug problem.

01:30:57.000 And they weren't there for them for the fight.

01:31:00.000 And so they went into a world title defense like that.

01:31:05.000 You say it wasn't the first round.

01:31:06.000 I was wrong.

01:31:07.000 Because it looks like here we are in the second or third.

01:31:10.000 This is the third?

01:31:12.000 This is the third.

01:31:12.000 So it was in the third round.

01:31:15.000 My memory is not that good.

01:31:16.000 See?

01:31:18.000 This guy just made a brawl. 0.99

01:31:20.000 Yes.

01:31:20.000 He just made it ugly.

01:31:22.000 He's like, no respect. 1.00

01:31:23.000 He also fucking hits super hard, man. 1.00

01:31:26.000 That's part of the problem. 0.99

01:31:27.000 This is surprising because Petrosian usually doesn't get entangled like this.

01:31:31.000 He's really good at keeping...

01:31:33.000 Can we see that again?

01:31:34.000 Oh, they'll play it again.

01:31:36.000 He's really good at... 1.00

01:31:37.000 Damn. 1.00

01:31:38.000 Left hand. 1.00

01:31:39.000 Keeping space, yeah?

01:31:40.000 Yeah.

01:31:40.000 He's really good at maintaining a good range for himself, but he's getting all entangled up here.

01:31:44.000 Yeah, I wonder what he thinks about this fight.

01:31:46.000 I would love to hear it.

01:31:47.000 I would love to hear, like, what was wrong.

01:31:49.000 Like, what leading up to this fight.

01:31:52.000 He speaks Italian.

01:31:54.000 Get a translator. 1.00

01:31:55.000 Oh, fuck. 1.00

01:31:56.000 Okay. 1.00

01:31:56.000 I've done that before with Yoel Romero. 1.00

01:31:59.000 I had Joey Diaz translate for Yoel Romero.

01:32:01.000 Have you seen that meme of him?

01:32:03.000 Which one?

01:32:03.000 Like it or not.

01:32:04.000 This is a 40-year-old not on steroids jammed full of Jesus.

01:32:11.000 Yeah.

01:32:11.000 Oh.

01:32:12.000 Like it or not.

01:32:14.000 He's standing there like this.

01:32:16.000 That's amazing. 0.95

01:32:17.000 He's a genetic freak.

01:32:18.000 Yeah.

01:32:19.000 But, you know, he was on the podcast.

01:32:20.000 He was talking about it.

01:32:21.000 He's like, go to Cuba.

01:32:22.000 He goes, like, everybody looks like me. 1.00

01:32:23.000 He's like, there's fucking jeans down there. 0.99

01:32:25.000 But it kind of makes sense. 0.99

01:32:26.000 You know?

01:32:27.000 I mean, the slave trade led to all these, like...

01:32:29.000 Breeding.

01:32:30.000 And not just that, but also high-level athletic pursuits, right?

01:32:33.000 Because they're just...

01:32:34.000 They put so much emphasis on athletes.

01:32:37.000 And so much emphasis on, you know...

01:32:39.000 They probably have athletes. 1.00

01:32:40.000 Fuck other athletes. 1.00

01:32:42.000 You know? 1.00

01:32:42.000 I mean, if you get Serena Williams and LeBron James to have a kid, what are the odds that kid's not a bad motherfucker? 1.00

01:32:48.000 It's zero percent, right? 0.99

01:32:51.000 That kid would be a beast, right?

01:32:53.000 He'd be a super athlete. 0.99

01:32:54.000 They should sell their egg or their sperm. 0.93

01:32:55.000 Oh, sell everything. 0.95

01:32:57.000 Sell it all.

01:32:58.000 Put it together, combine it, mix it up.

01:33:00.000 I'd love to see that.

01:33:01.000 Can you imagine if, like, two super athletes just decided, like, hey, baby, I got an idea.

01:33:06.000 Yeah.

01:33:06.000 Like, let's just find out how we can get along.

01:33:08.000 Yeah.

01:33:09.000 Let's just make a kid.

01:33:10.000 Not even like, you know, hey baby, just like, hey, you want to just do a thing? 0.77

01:33:15.000 Yeah, but then you have to raise a kid and not fuck it up. 0.61

01:33:18.000 That's the thing. 0.87

01:33:19.000 It could be like a business contract.

01:33:21.000 Yes, but here's the thing, and this I wanted to talk to you about, because I know you had a rough childhood. 0.96

01:33:25.000 The reality is, a certain amount of fucking you up gives you a certain amount of fuel that allows you to accomplish things that a person with a cushy life and always had a warm bed and always had plenty of love.

01:33:37.000 You have a gear, right? 0.99

01:33:40.000 For sure.

01:33:41.000 Yeah, you have a gear that someone who lived a wonderful life with perfect environment and perfect upbringing probably doesn't have.

01:33:49.000 It's more like, okay, I'll do it alone.

01:33:52.000 Yeah.

01:33:52.000 Like, oh, okay.

01:33:53.000 Right, but it's also the need to do it alone.

01:33:58.000 The need to prove people.

01:34:00.000 The need to show people.

01:34:01.000 Yeah.

01:34:02.000 You know?

01:34:03.000 Yeah.

01:34:05.000 For sure. 0.99

01:34:06.000 Everybody I know that's interesting had a fucked up childhood. 0.99

01:34:09.000 Really? 0.99

01:34:09.000 Yep. 0.99

01:34:10.000 I don't know anybody that didn't...

01:34:11.000 You too?

01:34:12.000 Yeah.

01:34:13.000 Really?

01:34:13.000 Sure.

01:34:14.000 Huh.

01:34:14.000 Yeah.

01:34:15.000 Yeah.

01:34:16.000 I haven't talked to my dad since I was seven.

01:34:18.000 He's alive.

01:34:18.000 He's got the same name as me.

01:34:19.000 You're so cuddly and not bitter.

01:34:21.000 Well, I'm a nice person.

01:34:23.000 And I have a lot of nice friends.

01:34:24.000 Yeah.

01:34:25.000 But I've cultivated this.

01:34:26.000 Yeah.

01:34:27.000 This is something that I've actively cultivated for decades.

01:34:30.000 I've worked really hard to be a nice person.

01:34:33.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:34:34.000 And I know the benefit of being a nice person, like how it makes me feel, how it makes other people feel.

01:34:38.000 And I know that that spreads and it makes other people nicer.

01:34:41.000 And I try, I work on it hard.

01:34:44.000 Keep the wolf in a cage.

01:34:46.000 Always.

01:34:47.000 Let it out sometimes.

01:34:48.000 Sometimes.

01:34:49.000 Sometimes.

01:34:50.000 I remember one time you and I were at a Muay Thai event together.

01:34:54.000 You were there and I ran into you there. 0.96

01:34:57.000 It's funny watching fights with you because you were gritting your teeth and then you looked over me and you go, don't you want to just fuck somebody up? 1.00

01:35:09.000 Don't you want to just smash somebody's fucking face? 1.00

01:35:11.000 I'm like, damn, Miriam, I've got to get the fuck away from you. 1.00

01:35:17.000 When was this? 1.00

01:35:18.000 It was a long time ago in LA. Remember LA had that pro Muay Thai thing where...

01:35:22.000 Who fought?

01:35:26.000 Bukau fought.

01:35:27.000 It was a good event.

01:35:29.000 Oh my god.

01:35:30.000 So you know what that was?

01:35:31.000 It was Muay Thai League.

01:35:32.000 Yes.

01:35:33.000 So you know what it was?

01:35:34.000 What?

01:35:35.000 I had an ACL surgery.

01:35:37.000 Right.

01:35:37.000 And I couldn't fight.

01:35:38.000 That's right.

01:35:39.000 And I was supposed to fight.

01:35:40.000 Right.

01:35:40.000 I was seething.

01:35:41.000 Yes, you were seething. 1.00

01:35:42.000 I was fucking... 1.00

01:35:43.000 I was fucking seething. 1.00

01:35:46.000 And I was watching these fights and they were fucking garbage. 1.00

01:35:49.000 Yes. 1.00

01:35:50.000 And I couldn't fight.

01:35:51.000 Yeah.

01:35:52.000 Yeah, that was 2000. Oh, I remember that.

01:35:54.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:35:55.000 God damn it. 0.99

01:35:56.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:35:58.000 I was like, oh, I would beat these bitches. 1.00

01:35:59.000 I really wish that event took off because that was fun. 0.99

01:36:03.000 It was great having that in LA. Ernesto Hoos was doing the commentary as well.

01:36:07.000 And, um, yeah.

01:36:09.000 Didn't Valentina fight in that?

01:36:11.000 I think she did.

01:36:12.000 I would have been very curious to see how Valentina versus Julie Kitchen would have turned out.

01:36:17.000 Yeah.

01:36:20.000 Well, I'm really curious to see how she does in the UFC at 125 pounds. 0.74

01:36:26.000 She's a beast because... 1.00

01:36:27.000 She's going to be strong at that weight. 0.83

01:36:28.000 That's her weight. 1.00

01:36:29.000 She's not a 135er.

01:36:30.000 Do you see how she looks like fighter fit? 1.00

01:36:33.000 Like lean and cut and ripped.

01:36:35.000 Like even her legs. 0.92

01:36:36.000 When she was 135, her legs looked soft.

01:36:39.000 And she's still winning.

01:36:40.000 Yeah.

01:36:41.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:36:42.000 She dropped Holly Holm.

01:36:43.000 Yeah.

01:36:43.000 That's crazy.

01:36:44.000 I mean, Holly Holm's like a 145-er. 0.81

01:36:47.000 Probably.

01:36:48.000 Well, she fought at 145. Comfortably be at 145. It's not like, oh, they're going at 135 or going up to 145. She's like a big-ass 135-er. 1.00

01:36:57.000 And she went the distance with Cyborg at 145, which is a fucking... 0.99

01:37:01.000 That's a statement in and of itself. 0.98

01:37:03.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:37:03.000 Well, it's just a boxer.

01:37:04.000 Yeah.

01:37:05.000 So they're used to getting hit.

01:37:06.000 It's different.

01:37:07.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:37:08.000 You know? 0.98

01:37:09.000 Yeah, and I think she got fucked in the title fight when she fought Durandamy. 1.00

01:37:14.000 I think she should have won that fight. 0.98

01:37:15.000 For sure.

01:37:16.000 I really do.

01:37:16.000 And the cheap shot.

01:37:17.000 The cheap shot.

01:37:18.000 Two cheap shots.

01:37:19.000 Two of them after the bell.

01:37:20.000 One of them that significantly hurt her.

01:37:22.000 I think points should have been taken away, for sure.

01:37:24.000 Yep, yep, yep.

01:37:25.000 Yeah.

01:37:26.000 It's a crazy sport.

01:37:27.000 Holly Holm's amazing.

01:37:28.000 She is.

01:37:29.000 As a person.

01:37:31.000 I've never met her.

01:37:32.000 She's the sweetest person ever.

01:37:34.000 She seems really sweet.

01:37:35.000 I was listening to her interviews.

01:37:39.000 She seems just like a really uplifted, genuine person.

01:37:46.000 A super humble person.

01:37:49.000 She really is, which is one of the weirder moments. 1.00

01:37:52.000 Why it was such a weird moment, rather, when Ronda Rousey at the weigh-ins was like, you fucking bitch, you're a fucking fake. 1.00

01:37:59.000 And it was weird. 1.00

01:38:02.000 It was almost like she wanted her to be the enemy so that she could get amped up to kick her ass. 1.00

01:38:07.000 So she was saying a bunch of things that didn't even make sense. 0.99

01:38:10.000 Maybe Rhonda was kind of at a breaking point, too, just as far as, like, workload, stress level, expectations, you know, obligations.

01:38:20.000 And when I saw that weigh-in, actually, I watched that probably at least five times.

01:38:26.000 Like, I just replayed it because I like to watch people interact and how they react.

01:38:32.000 I love it.

01:38:33.000 Yeah.

01:38:33.000 And I noticed, like, when I saw that, I'm like, oh, Holly's got this.

01:38:39.000 And I wish I'd fucking bet money.

01:38:41.000 I totally wish I did. 0.95

01:38:42.000 But I was watching and I was like, oh.

01:38:44.000 Just thought because Rhonda seemed so emotional.

01:38:48.000 It was the way Holly reacted. 0.79

01:38:51.000 That's why.

01:38:52.000 She just like, Rhonda came in her space. 0.98

01:38:56.000 Holly just like stepped back, like kept proper distance, you know, like defensive distance. 0.98

01:39:02.000 Super, super low key.

01:39:04.000 Watch her reaction.

01:39:09.000 Yeah, she stayed calm for sure.

01:39:11.000 Yeah.

01:39:12.000 That's skinny Rhonda, too. 1.00

01:39:14.000 That's weighing Rhonda, which is like, she's depleted. 0.89

01:39:17.000 Yeah, she was kind of... 0.59

01:39:18.000 Look how much difference she lived when she was weighing in. 0.99

01:39:21.000 But they...

01:39:23.000 They tied up, and Holly didn't give any ground, either.

01:39:27.000 Uh-uh.

01:39:28.000 She's just like...

01:39:29.000 She stayed calm. 0.99

01:39:30.000 She backed up, but she backed up like, I'm ready to hit you. 1.00

01:39:33.000 Backed up.

01:39:34.000 She didn't back up like, ugh.

01:39:36.000 And then so Rhonda was super emotional, too.

01:39:39.000 She was funny.

01:39:40.000 She was like, I was just trying to get a drink.

01:39:42.000 Yeah.

01:39:43.000 Yeah.

01:39:44.000 I just thought I was having a drink.

01:39:45.000 I don't know.

01:39:46.000 Yeah.

01:39:47.000 Yeah.

01:39:47.000 It was great.

01:39:48.000 And then Rhonda was like... 1.00

01:39:50.000 She was super... 0.92

01:39:52.000 Right?

01:39:54.000 And you never saw her like that. 1.00

01:39:55.000 You're like, what the fuck? 1.00

01:39:56.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:39:57.000 I think you nailed it as far as the breaking point.

01:40:00.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:40:00.000 She got sucked into all the Hollywood bullshit. 1.00

01:40:03.000 They were putting her in movies and TV shows and she was on different talk shows. 1.00

01:40:07.000 Well, it was the hype too.

01:40:08.000 Like, oh, could she beat Cain Velasquez?

01:40:10.000 Could she?

01:40:11.000 You know?

01:40:11.000 And it's like...

01:40:13.000 Oh my god, look what she's doing to these women. 1.00

01:40:15.000 Remember that?

01:40:18.000 Wow.

01:40:19.000 She was a superstar.

01:40:21.000 Look, I was a part of it.

01:40:22.000 She still is.

01:40:23.000 She is now.

01:40:24.000 She's still a superstar.

01:40:25.000 Now she's a WWE superstar. 1.00

01:40:27.000 It's just a different kind of superstar.

01:40:29.000 She should come back.

01:40:30.000 You think she should?

01:40:30.000 Yeah.

01:40:32.000 What makes you say that?

01:40:35.000 Don't go out like that.

01:40:37.000 This is Miriam talking, though.

01:40:39.000 She's a different person.

01:40:40.000 Yeah.

01:40:42.000 I don't know.

01:40:46.000 She deserves better than to go out the way, you know, her last fight. 1.00

01:40:50.000 Well, she deserves exactly what she got. 0.53

01:40:54.000 No, no.

01:40:55.000 This is what I think.

01:40:55.000 She's better than that, is what I'm saying.

01:40:58.000 I think you're right.

01:40:58.000 I think you're right that she's better than that.

01:40:59.000 I'm not saying, oh, it's bad that she got punched like that.

01:41:01.000 No, no, no, no, no.

01:41:02.000 I'm saying she deserves better than that to, like, represent herself better.

01:41:08.000 Her legacy.

01:41:09.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:41:10.000 I don't think that...

01:41:11.000 I don't think that matters to her as much as it matters to other folks.

01:41:14.000 I think she really cemented her legacy as one of the greatest women's MMA champions ever and a pioneer.

01:41:20.000 But I also think that women's MMA has evolved so fast. 0.96

01:41:25.000 That within the brief time that she was running shit, the sport passed her by. 0.98

01:41:30.000 And when you see... 0.99

01:41:31.000 The one that I was always worried about with her was Amanda.

01:41:34.000 Because I was like, Amanda Nunes has a black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and nasty hands. 1.00

01:41:39.000 Like, to me...

01:41:39.000 And Judo too, right?

01:41:40.000 I think she has some Judo. 1.00

01:41:42.000 I don't know what her ranking is in Judo.

01:41:44.000 She's not belted in Judo? 0.67

01:41:45.000 I don't know.

01:41:45.000 She could be.

01:41:47.000 But I know she's a black belt in Jiu-Jitsu, and I know she had heavy hands.

01:41:51.000 And my thought was that Ronda, although she was developing good striking skills, she's known for her Judo in her armbars. 1.00

01:41:57.000 That's her big thing.

01:41:58.000 And the striking skills were sort of like something that was happening along the way, and she was starting to catch girls.

01:42:04.000 But she was catching girls like Betch Koheya. 1.00

01:42:06.000 Alexis Davis.

01:42:07.000 Yeah.

01:42:08.000 And beating them down when she gets them down. 1.00

01:42:11.000 They're not nearly on the level of an Amanda Nunes.

01:42:15.000 Like, you're not going to catch her like that.

01:42:16.000 Or Holly Holm.

01:42:17.000 Right, exactly. 0.80

01:42:18.000 And my thought was that if it was going to go down, it was going to be Amanda because Amanda just hit so fucking hard. 1.00

01:42:24.000 And then so when she came back and immediately fought for the world title against Amanda. 1.00

01:42:30.000 She needed a gimme. 0.99

01:42:32.000 Fuck yeah. 1.00

01:42:33.000 Well, she needed a different camp. 1.00

01:42:34.000 And I think that's fair.

01:42:35.000 She needed a revamping of her approach.

01:42:38.000 She needed a lot of things.

01:42:39.000 She needed a lot of things.

01:42:41.000 Because people knew, first of all, she never shoots for doubles. 0.99

01:42:44.000 She's not taking you down with a lower body attack. 1.00

01:42:46.000 It's always upper body.

01:42:47.000 And it's always a clinch.

01:42:48.000 And she clinches with her left arm. 1.00

01:42:50.000 I mean, Greg Jackson and Jackson Winklejohn, they all figured that out.

01:42:53.000 And Holly had the solution for that.

01:42:55.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:42:55.000 You know?

01:42:56.000 And also this other thing is when you get fucking head kicked into oblivion that way, like you need a lot of time off, a lot of time with no sparring, no nothing. 0.98

01:43:05.000 Especially just being so high, like being so untouchable and high and then coming crashing down to earth like that. 0.98

01:43:13.000 It's rough.

01:43:14.000 That's definitely like a big who am I moment, I think.

01:43:18.000 I'm sure.

01:43:19.000 Yeah.

01:43:20.000 Because there's a whole world, too.

01:43:22.000 Right.

01:43:22.000 But you were talking about you trying to figure out who you are when you couldn't train anymore.

01:43:28.000 And I had that on such a...

01:43:31.000 Small scale.

01:43:32.000 Private scale.

01:43:33.000 Private scale.

01:43:34.000 Large personally, but private.

01:43:37.000 Yeah.

01:43:37.000 And hers is the world.

01:43:39.000 Yes.

01:43:40.000 The whole world.

01:43:41.000 And mine was more tragic, and hers was more humiliating.

01:43:47.000 How was yours more tragic?

01:43:50.000 It happened in the third round of a fight.

01:43:53.000 A world title of MMA. It happened on a takedown.

01:43:59.000 It wasn't a takedown that twerked or tweaked my knee or grabbed on my knee.

01:44:05.000 I pushed against them while my body was like this parallel to the ground and I tore my own ACL. Yeah.

01:44:15.000 So it was like...

01:44:16.000 Why is that more tragic?

01:44:19.000 Because it was more like...

01:44:20.000 No, no, no, no, no.

01:44:21.000 No?

01:44:21.000 No, no, no, no.

01:44:23.000 I think it's more humiliating to get knocked out, in my opinion, to get knocked out...

01:44:29.000 Sure.

01:44:30.000 ...than it is to get, like...

01:44:31.000 Injured out.

01:44:33.000 Like tear out.

01:44:35.000 Like still fighting.

01:44:36.000 And then you step back and everything slips and you fall.

01:44:39.000 Because your knee can't.

01:44:41.000 It's gone.

01:44:42.000 That's what I mean when I say tragic.

01:44:45.000 Or if you're like winning the fight.

01:44:50.000 Unfortunate.

01:44:50.000 Yeah.

01:44:51.000 Yeah.

01:44:52.000 Yeah, so it's more...

01:44:53.000 Unfortunate, and then your identity's stripped away, but again, yours is private, hers is public.

01:44:58.000 But at least you understand what it's like to not be that person who you...

01:45:03.000 You counted on you being that person as part of your shield that you put on to go through the day.

01:45:08.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:45:09.000 For sure.

01:45:10.000 Yeah.

01:45:10.000 You know?

01:45:11.000 Yeah.

01:45:12.000 Her persona. 0.67

01:45:15.000 She was damn good at it, too. 0.52

01:45:17.000 And then it's like stripped away. 0.94

01:45:19.000 Well, she was the first...

01:45:21.000 Well, Gina Carano was the first, right?

01:45:23.000 That people sort of identified with. 0.99

01:45:25.000 Like, wow, here's this pretty girl who kicks ass. 1.00

01:45:27.000 And this is crazy. 0.99

01:45:28.000 We've never seen this before.

01:45:29.000 But it was at a smaller scale.

01:45:31.000 People just didn't...

01:45:32.000 They didn't kind of understand who she was or what she was.

01:45:35.000 I mean, it wasn't as big yet, too.

01:45:37.000 It wasn't nearly as big.

01:45:38.000 Yeah.

01:45:38.000 Tiny in comparison.

01:45:39.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:45:40.000 But then when Ronda came along, it was like this perfect storm.

01:45:42.000 It's like the UFC was huge.

01:45:44.000 Everything was taking off. 0.99

01:45:45.000 And then here's this girl who's just fucking everybody up. 1.00

01:45:48.000 Hers was much more violent to me than Gina's. 0.99

01:45:53.000 Like, you're getting slammed.

01:45:55.000 Right.

01:45:56.000 And just like, you know what I mean?

01:45:57.000 And getting your arm broke.

01:45:59.000 Yeah, basically.

01:46:00.000 Like, gruesome.

01:46:00.000 Yeah.

01:46:01.000 Super gruesome. 0.99

01:46:01.000 When she fought Misha and cranked her arm all fucked up. 0.99

01:46:03.000 Yeah, and Misha was amazing. 0.99

01:46:05.000 She wouldn't even tap. 1.00

01:46:06.000 Fuck. 1.00

01:46:06.000 Fuck, man. 1.00

01:46:07.000 Snapped her arm in half. 1.00

01:46:08.000 Goddamn. 0.99

01:46:08.000 Yeah, and she's still not tapping. 0.99

01:46:10.000 It's like a tearing the chicken.

01:46:12.000 Exactly.

01:46:13.000 Yeah.

01:46:14.000 Yeah, Misha's a badass for that one.

01:46:16.000 Now, during all this time, I mean, this is...

01:46:20.000 When Ronda's taking off and when Holly's taking off and Amanda Nunes is taking off, all this time is when you're at your peak. 0.60

01:46:29.000 You're at your peak as a fighter and then you're dealing with all these fucking injuries and you're working your way to get into this circus.

01:46:38.000 I mean, you're working your way to step into this arena. 0.98

01:46:40.000 I mean, this is like, ultimately, this was your goal.

01:46:43.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:46:44.000 What the fuck is that like, to be just sitting down there dealing with all this bullshit? 1.00

01:46:48.000 Watching everybody else do it? 1.00

01:46:49.000 Yeah.

01:46:50.000 It was maddening.

01:46:52.000 Well, I think about the time that I was sitting next to you watching those fights.

01:46:56.000 Yeah. 0.98

01:46:56.000 And you're like, do you want to fucking smash someone? 0.98

01:46:58.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0.99

01:46:59.000 You're making me fucking nervous. 0.98

01:47:01.000 It was worse, actually. 0.99

01:47:03.000 So that time I only blew up to 165. This time I blew up to 186. Damn.

01:47:11.000 Yeah, it was big. 0.99

01:47:13.000 That's almost 190. That's almost 190, which is almost 200. Yeah, exactly.

01:47:17.000 Exactly.

01:47:19.000 And I was drinking, and it was an eating ride, and it was, yeah, just a bunch of stuff.

01:47:25.000 So how'd you turn it around?

01:47:29.000 Ultimately, I think...

01:47:32.000 So I taught Rock Study Boxing.

01:47:35.000 Rock Study Boxing is a program for people with Parkinson's disease and it teaches them how to box and that helps them with their symptoms and their quality.

01:47:45.000 It improves their quality of life and gives them a sense of, gives them a community to be in.

01:47:50.000 And the interesting about Rock Study Boxing was I thought I was going to be, it was a terrible fit and I was terrified that I was going to hurt them and it actually was the best fit.

01:48:00.000 And they loved being in my classes and I loved teaching them and like honestly they healed my heart.

01:48:07.000 Like they healed that not good enough that I felt.

01:48:12.000 Wow.

01:48:13.000 Yeah, it was pretty crazy.

01:48:15.000 So teaching and helping people is what brought it around for you.

01:48:20.000 Yeah, and understanding that...

01:48:24.000 I think I definitely understand my body is doing this and I want to do that.

01:48:29.000 And I can't do anything about it.

01:48:31.000 And that frustration, and it's infuriating, and I'm watching them go through what they go through.

01:48:38.000 And it's just incredible.

01:48:39.000 And they just show up and they...

01:48:41.000 They just work so hard and they're just fighting.

01:48:44.000 It's great Little grandmas and grandpas.

01:48:47.000 Wow.

01:48:47.000 Yeah, did you see the Rock City video?

01:48:49.000 No the uber? - Sure.

01:48:52.000 The Uber?

01:48:52.000 Yeah, the Uber did a mini-documentary on me.

01:48:54.000 Oh, no.

01:48:55.000 No, I've never seen it.

01:48:56.000 Yeah.

01:48:57.000 How long is the mini-documentary?

01:48:58.000 Can we watch it?

01:48:59.000 Ten minutes.

01:48:59.000 No, we'll get kicked off the internet if we pull it off.

01:49:02.000 We put it on YouTube.

01:49:04.000 People always claim it.

01:49:05.000 We got our videos taken down, unfortunately.

01:49:08.000 Oh.

01:49:08.000 But I'll watch it afterwards and I'll tweet it.

01:49:10.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:49:11.000 I'll put it up. 0.92

01:49:12.000 That's fucking awesome, though. 0.98

01:49:13.000 It might make you tear up a little bit. 0.99

01:49:17.000 I tear up easy.

01:49:18.000 Me too.

01:49:19.000 I'm a crier.

01:49:21.000 It's not just like sad.

01:49:23.000 I'm happy.

01:49:23.000 I'll cry.

01:49:24.000 Actually, after you asked me to be on this podcast, I was having moments of like kind of crying all ever since.

01:49:33.000 Really?

01:49:37.000 Coming back to fighting, Kiryan was like, we were talking about a game plan about coming back.

01:49:43.000 And he's like, okay, so this is what I think.

01:49:45.000 I think, you know, getting the right fight, like getting a Muay Thai fight, maybe WBC diamond belt.

01:49:50.000 And that is like, all I wanted. 0.95

01:49:52.000 When I was active fighting five years, that's all I fucking wanted. 0.91

01:49:55.000 Like it broke my heart, hurt my heart that they wouldn't sanction that for women. 0.95

01:49:59.000 It was so frustrating to me.

01:50:01.000 And he's talking about that, and he's like, yeah, we'll get this fight, and then that'll be your way to come back. 0.99

01:50:05.000 And I'm like, I don't give a fuck. 0.99

01:50:06.000 I don't want another world title. 0.99

01:50:08.000 I have enough. 0.97

01:50:09.000 How much fucking good enough do I need to be? 0.98

01:50:11.000 I'm done. 0.99

01:50:12.000 I just want to be paid. 1.00

01:50:15.000 Just fuck you, pay me. 1.00

01:50:16.000 That's all I want. 1.00

01:50:19.000 You say that, but once you start preparing... 0.92

01:50:22.000 No, I'm still going to do the fucking best of my ability.

01:50:24.000 I would take a fight that's $1,500, $3,000 for a world title to get a chance to fight for that world title. 0.97

01:50:33.000 Now I'm like, hell no.

01:50:35.000 I will take a non-world title fight that pays more over a world title opportunity.

01:50:40.000 Well, are you looking to compete now in MMA? Are you looking to compete in Muay Thai?

01:50:45.000 Are you looking to compete in kickboxing?

01:50:47.000 I'm looking to compete in whatever pays me.

01:50:49.000 You're in cha-ching!

01:50:51.000 You're in dollar mode. 0.98

01:50:54.000 When you asked me to be on this podcast, and I was like, holy shit, so this in turn would get my followers up, which in turn would make it so I could get paid more the next time I fight.

01:51:05.000 Do you see that? 0.69

01:51:05.000 I see what you're saying. 0.69

01:51:06.000 Yeah, and I was just like, oh my god, this is so, like, thank you so much.

01:51:11.000 And I was just like, you know, I was just feeling like my eyes blowing up with tears.

01:51:15.000 And I felt a little nervous. 0.99

01:51:16.000 I was like, oh my god, there's like how many subscribers on this shit? 0.99

01:51:18.000 You can't pay attention to that. 0.99

01:51:20.000 You seem like you're doing a good job of not paying attention to it.

01:51:24.000 I'm microdosing today.

01:51:25.000 No.

01:51:26.000 But what I said to myself, because I did feel very nervous, and I do still, but what I said to myself was like, well, it wouldn't be happening if you weren't ready.

01:51:35.000 So this didn't happen before when you were active fighting, you're winning all these world titles, like, you weren't ready.

01:51:41.000 So you're ready now.

01:51:42.000 Well, that's a good attitude.

01:51:44.000 Yeah.

01:51:45.000 But I would have had John back then, too.

01:51:48.000 I wasn't ready.

01:51:50.000 I'm sure you would have been fine.

01:51:51.000 No, no, I wasn't ready.

01:51:52.000 Really?

01:51:53.000 Yeah.

01:51:54.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:51:54.000 Because I think I didn't know myself the way I know myself now.

01:51:58.000 I didn't trust myself.

01:51:59.000 I didn't have everything taken, all my strength taken away from me.

01:52:04.000 Right.

01:52:05.000 And then...

01:52:06.000 Come out of it by my...

01:52:07.000 Yeah.

01:52:08.000 I mean, like, one of the things that the rock-steady boxing got me back and, like, helped heal my heart, but also the other thing was, like, I kept trying to train.

01:52:15.000 I kept trying to get better.

01:52:16.000 I kept trying to, you know, and lose weight, but my knee was still fucking with me, and I'd get inflammation and this and that, and so finally I just said, you know what?

01:52:23.000 I think Dominic Cruz did this, too, where he's just like, maybe I don't get to fight again.

01:52:28.000 Like, maybe that's just what it is.

01:52:30.000 And I... I'm not crying.

01:52:34.000 You're crying.

01:52:35.000 It's okay.

01:52:38.000 You can cry.

01:52:40.000 I've cried on this podcast before.

01:52:42.000 I made peace with that.

01:52:45.000 And then things started getting better.

01:52:48.000 I don't know if it's...

01:52:51.000 I don't know why or how, but somehow fixating it wouldn't let me move forward.

01:52:58.000 It just kept holding on to it when it wasn't working.

01:53:03.000 I just said, okay, then I don't get to fight again.

01:53:07.000 All right, let it go.

01:53:09.000 And that's when it came back to me.

01:53:13.000 I don't know.

01:53:13.000 Do you think that, well, I think that for the average person that's watching this and doesn't understand this fixation on fighting, I think it comes back to what we were talking about before, that it's so difficult and so rewarding and so impossible.

01:53:31.000 And you're finding out about yourself during this struggle.

01:53:35.000 It is my therapy.

01:53:38.000 So I used to do a lot of drugs.

01:53:41.000 I used to do math where I weighed 126 pounds.

01:53:45.000 I'm 5'9".

01:53:46.000 That's not normal for me.

01:53:48.000 And I did so much partying, so much drugs, so much self-abuse, and then I started training.

01:53:54.000 And I used to smoke a pack of Marble Reds a day.

01:53:56.000 I would go on benders and stay up like four or five days in a row.

01:54:03.000 I started training Muay Thai, and that's when I stopped.

01:54:08.000 It wasn't immediate.

01:54:09.000 It wasn't like, quit cold turkey.

01:54:12.000 Over time, as I moved towards the goal of fighting, and it took me, I think, five years before I fought.

01:54:18.000 So I started training Muay Thai. 0.99

01:54:19.000 It took me five fucking years. 0.99

01:54:21.000 And I stopped doing drugs. 0.99

01:54:25.000 I stopped partying.

01:54:26.000 I stopped smoking.

01:54:28.000 I started having a more disciplined, regimented lifestyle.

01:54:32.000 And it was just through fighting.

01:54:34.000 Some people get sober through working the steps.

01:54:37.000 Training was my steps.

01:54:39.000 Training was my way of...

01:54:43.000 Getting to know myself and getting to sift through what wasn't me and what was me.

01:54:49.000 I was told a lot of things that I was when I was a kid.

01:54:52.000 And I come to find out I wasn't those things.

01:54:55.000 I'm hardworking.

01:54:56.000 I'm disciplined.

01:54:57.000 I'm intelligent.

01:54:58.000 I'm all these other things that I was never told I was.

01:55:02.000 And it was all through fighting.

01:55:04.000 So, yeah.

01:55:05.000 Yeah.

01:55:06.000 Well, fighting gave you a venue.

01:55:10.000 It gave you...

01:55:11.000 Well, then training.

01:55:12.000 Yes.

01:55:13.000 But I think fighting made me...

01:55:16.000 No, because if only I'd trained, I wouldn't have...

01:55:23.000 Gone as deep as I needed to go. 1.00

01:55:25.000 To get to the shit. 1.00

01:55:27.000 Right. 1.00

01:55:28.000 That fucking, like, you know, the hard crust layer that you gotta fucking dig under and, like, get in there and sort of through that stuff. 0.99

01:55:38.000 You would've got the surface. 0.99

01:55:38.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:55:38.000 You would've polished yourself up a little bit. 0.99

01:55:40.000 Yeah, but it wouldn't have...

01:55:42.000 Healed you.

01:55:44.000 Changed my makeup.

01:55:46.000 Or even allowed me to be who I am.

01:55:50.000 You know?

01:55:52.000 Yeah.

01:55:53.000 Like right now, it's kind of a trip.

01:55:55.000 I feel like I'm in bloom.

01:55:57.000 I'm just learning faster than I ever have.

01:56:00.000 It's easy.

01:56:02.000 And like Dave was tripping out on me because he was watching me train or watching stuff I was doing. 0.85

01:56:10.000 It's so much easier to do the things without bullshit in the way. 1.00

01:56:15.000 Bullshit in your brain. 1.00

01:56:16.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:56:17.000 Bullshit in my brain, my emotions, these limiting beliefs about myself. 1.00

01:56:23.000 It's so much easier. 0.99

01:56:26.000 Or to finally be able to be in a space where I'm like, okay, you're doing this.

01:56:32.000 What am I doing?

01:56:33.000 Okay, I'm not matching what you're doing.

01:56:36.000 Or what are you feeling?

01:56:37.000 What am I feeling?

01:56:38.000 Where I think a lot of people, when they first start out, they just do what they're told.

01:56:44.000 Instead of questioning the concept, questioning the, you know, so it's just, I think the more mature I get, the easier, the more I know myself, so the easier it is to get the information that I need to master the thing.

01:57:01.000 Well, this is always the big race. 1.00

01:57:03.000 The big race is to achieve maturity before your body does.

01:57:09.000 There's a lot of wear and tear on this body.

01:57:11.000 On everyone's.

01:57:12.000 Especially anybody in combat sports.

01:57:14.000 Combat sports at 42. Yeah.

01:57:16.000 And to be able to achieve enough mental maturity while your body is still pliable and viable.

01:57:26.000 It still works and you can still execute.

01:57:29.000 You still have vitality.

01:57:31.000 Isn't Demetrius Johnson amazing? 0.99

01:57:33.000 Fucking amazing. 0.99

01:57:34.000 He's so amazing. 0.99

01:57:35.000 Yeah.

01:57:36.000 And I'm not even thinking about all the incredible things he does within a fight.

01:57:40.000 I'm thinking about his post-fight interview.

01:57:42.000 Oh, he's fantastic.

01:57:43.000 He's amazing.

01:57:44.000 Yeah, no, he's an awesome dude.

01:57:46.000 He's so just, like, right there.

01:57:48.000 Yeah.

01:57:48.000 Isn't he?

01:57:49.000 Yeah.

01:57:49.000 He's like, no, this is what I do, and this is what's going to happen, and we plan for this, and da-da-da-da, and that's it.

01:57:54.000 Super matter-of-fact.

01:57:56.000 Well, his coach, Matt Hume, is one of the greats.

01:57:58.000 Absolutely.

01:57:59.000 I'd love to meet that guy.

01:58:00.000 I'd just love to watch that training happen.

01:58:03.000 Just get to be able to pick up on the energy and the magic in the room.

01:58:07.000 Well, I like the fact that he's now going to 1FC. And 1FC is going to pay him a fuckload of money.

01:58:13.000 That's awesome.

01:58:14.000 And the UFC's in this weird state where the reality financially about the flyweight division is it's just not a big sell.

01:58:21.000 It's not like people are dying to watch 125 pound dudes fight.

01:58:25.000 People don't like tiny men.

01:58:27.000 That's weird.

01:58:28.000 Yeah, see for me.

01:58:29.000 Someone's going to take that as a quote.

01:58:32.000 We'll take that out of context.

01:58:33.000 Yeah, probably.

01:58:34.000 And it's going to be a picture of you standing there jacked with a six-pack with belts on.

01:58:39.000 And it's going to say, people don't like tiny men. 0.99

01:58:41.000 Like tiny men, like their other man bits or something fucking weird. 0.93

01:58:45.000 That's also a thing that people don't like. 0.98

01:58:47.000 But the thing is, like I said, I don't like watching heavyweights fight.

01:58:51.000 I like watching the smaller weights fight because usually they're more technical.

01:58:55.000 Well, he's as technical as there's ever been.

01:58:58.000 And he moves seamlessly.

01:59:00.000 This is what I was talking about, being able to be authentic, express yourself from moment to moment, and not have to play it safe and stay back and stay outside and away.

01:59:10.000 He's just in there, and he flows. 0.99

01:59:12.000 He also does what we talked about earlier, where I said that I don't think you should ever fight stupid. 0.98

01:59:18.000 That you should fight within the best place. 0.80

01:59:21.000 So you can express your abilities and your techniques the best, and that's what he does.

01:59:26.000 He has a situational condom.

01:59:27.000 Yeah.

01:59:28.000 On every...

01:59:29.000 Do you know what I mean?

01:59:30.000 Even though he's being offensive, he still has protection.

01:59:33.000 Right, right.

01:59:34.000 That's a situational condom.

01:59:35.000 Situational condom.

01:59:36.000 That's a funny way of putting it.

01:59:37.000 Yeah.

01:59:38.000 That is true.

01:59:39.000 Yeah.

01:59:41.000 What are you leaning towards?

01:59:43.000 I mean, I know you're saying, like, what if you get an equal offer?

01:59:46.000 An equal offer in Muay Thai, an equal offer in MMA? What would you lean towards?

01:59:50.000 I would want to do MMA, but Muay Thai would be...

01:59:54.000 Yeah, man. 0.96

01:59:55.000 Muay Thai's never fucking loved me back. 1.00

01:59:57.000 Whoa. 0.99

01:59:58.000 Never. 1.00

01:59:58.000 Some serious shit right there. 1.00

02:00:00.000 That's it, man. 1.00

02:00:00.000 I'm telling you. 1.00

02:00:01.000 Muay Thai's never loved you back. 1.00

02:00:02.000 Yeah.

02:00:03.000 No, so... 1.00

02:00:05.000 That's some deep childhood shit right there, Miriam. 1.00

02:00:07.000 Well, yeah. 1.00

02:00:09.000 World champion childhood.

02:00:12.000 It's like my baby beginnings as a champion.

02:00:15.000 So, do you also, first of all, you have a massive advantage in stand-up over most girls in MMA. Yeah, but it doesn't matter if I don't make the adjustment. 0.97

02:00:26.000 Of course.

02:00:27.000 You know?

02:00:28.000 Of course.

02:00:28.000 So I can't think that, like, oh, I'm better.

02:00:32.000 Right.

02:00:33.000 Because, like, oftentimes, with a lot of MMA fighters, and Cesar Gracie said this to me, he's like, in MMA, the girls, they're like pit bulls. 0.97

02:00:43.000 Like, they don't have the technique, but they get by on the toughness. 0.98

02:00:48.000 So, like, with a pit bull, you have to kill it. 0.99

02:00:51.000 Right. 0.99

02:00:51.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:00:52.000 Yeah.

02:00:53.000 Yeah, there's a lot of that, for sure.

02:00:55.000 And that will definitely fluster the fuck out of a high-level striker.

02:01:00.000 I mean, look at the Petrosian and Ristey.

02:01:03.000 Andy Ristey.

02:01:03.000 Ristey, look at that.

02:01:05.000 Andy Ristey's pretty high-level, too, though.

02:01:08.000 But I've never seen, not that I've watched all of Petrosian's fights, but I've never seen him get entangled like that that often.

02:01:14.000 True.

02:01:15.000 That is not, and Ristie just made it ugly. 1.00

02:01:17.000 Yeah.

02:01:18.000 He made it a brawl.

02:01:19.000 You should watch the whole fight.

02:01:20.000 It's an interesting fight.

02:01:21.000 But who knows?

02:01:23.000 Like I said, who knows where he was at, what was going on in his head, injuries, sickness, who knows what happened.

02:01:28.000 That beard?

02:01:29.000 Yeah, the beard.

02:01:30.000 Yeah.

02:01:31.000 I don't know.

02:01:32.000 Cowboy Cerrone looked as good as he's ever looked in his last fight.

02:01:34.000 Yeah, but that's Cerrone, that's not Petrosian.

02:01:37.000 Petrosian's like sexy. 0.75

02:01:38.000 He's got the sexy stand-up.

02:01:39.000 Wait, you're trying to tell me Donald Cerrone's not sexy?

02:01:42.000 Not like the way Petrosian is.

02:01:43.000 Like everything, Petrosian is like pretty.

02:01:45.000 The things he does, the way he fights, it's pretty.

02:01:48.000 Oh, I see what you're saying.

02:01:48.000 It's like, he's sexy.

02:01:49.000 He's like Petrosian. 0.99

02:01:50.000 He's Italian.

02:01:51.000 Oh, okay.

02:01:51.000 Yeah.

02:01:52.000 He's Giorgio.

02:01:53.000 Come on.

02:01:53.000 Okay.

02:01:53.000 Giorgio.

02:01:54.000 Yeah, see what I mean? 1.00

02:01:55.000 He shouldn't have that fucking beard. 1.00

02:01:56.000 I get it. 1.00

02:01:56.000 Donald. 1.00

02:01:56.000 Fucked him up. 1.00

02:01:57.000 Made him less aerodynamic. 0.99

02:01:59.000 Okay.

02:02:00.000 I don't know about that.

02:02:02.000 I'm a big believer in beard power.

02:02:05.000 So my dad had a beard growing up, and now I see all these 30-year-olds, 20-year-olds hipsters with their beard oil in their beards, and I'm just like, ugh.

02:02:13.000 It's so gross.

02:02:15.000 I have a real problem with beards with men that look like they would break real easy. 0.97

02:02:21.000 Yeah.

02:02:22.000 You know?

02:02:23.000 I can't stand men with skinny necks.

02:02:26.000 Yeah.

02:02:26.000 That's an uncomfortable thing, right?

02:02:28.000 And like buff dudes with skinny necks.

02:02:30.000 That means they're not doing anything. 1.00

02:02:32.000 Because I'm just like, that shit's not real. 0.99

02:02:33.000 Right. 1.00

02:02:34.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:02:35.000 You'll get fucked up. 1.00

02:02:36.000 You'll get fucked up. 1.00

02:02:37.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:02:37.000 That shit's not real. 1.00

02:02:38.000 You can't fight. 1.00

02:02:39.000 Your head's barely hanging on there.

02:02:41.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:02:42.000 Just tear it off like a chicken.

02:02:44.000 It's true.

02:02:45.000 In the third world country where they just go like that and rip the head off the chicken. 1.00

02:02:48.000 Well, it shows a severe lack of core strength.

02:02:51.000 Because if you're doing deadlifts and if you're doing anything with your traps, you're going to develop a thick neck. 0.98

02:02:57.000 If you're doing anything where you've got to hoist things up off the ground, you ever look at those motherfuckers in the Olympics that do deadlifts? 0.99

02:03:04.000 They have giant ass necks. 1.00

02:03:05.000 They're not grappling anybody. 1.00

02:03:06.000 They have huge necks.

02:03:08.000 Okay.

02:03:08.000 Yeah, because they're doing this all the time.

02:03:10.000 Oh, okay. 0.98

02:03:11.000 That's all fucking neck and back and the whole spinal column has to be strong. 0.99

02:03:16.000 You look scary, man. 1.00

02:03:17.000 It's guys that are doing this shit. 1.00

02:03:19.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:03:20.000 And then they're posing.

02:03:21.000 Yeah.

02:03:22.000 Wait a show.

02:03:23.000 Oh man, look at the skinny neck. 0.99

02:03:26.000 Has the modern male become...

02:03:27.000 Yeah, he's got no neck.

02:03:28.000 Look how skinny his neck is.

02:03:30.000 Look at that.

02:03:31.000 That is a preposterous neck.

02:03:33.000 Yeah. 0.98

02:03:34.000 I feel like if you had kicked him, he might die, right? 0.97

02:03:37.000 His head's not going to stay attached. 1.00

02:03:39.000 He just snapped that shit down. 1.00

02:03:40.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:03:40.000 Look at Tyson's neck. 1.00

02:03:41.000 Look at that.

02:03:43.000 Yeah.

02:03:44.000 Jesus Christ.

02:03:45.000 He's like a pit bull, isn't he?

02:03:47.000 That was the dark days right before. 0.96

02:03:48.000 That was the court when they were putting him in jail for rape.

02:03:52.000 Yeah.

02:03:52.000 Did he do it?

02:03:53.000 What does that article say?

02:03:55.000 If you have a...

02:03:55.000 No, I don't believe he did.

02:03:57.000 I might be wrong, but that girl, she falsely accused someone of rape earlier. 1.00

02:04:02.000 Oh.

02:04:03.000 Yeah.

02:04:03.000 If you have a thin neck, you're most likely a beta male.

02:04:06.000 How about take out most likely?

02:04:08.000 What?

02:04:09.000 How about just you are?

02:04:10.000 You are a beta male. 1.00

02:04:13.000 Who's out there running shit with a thin neck? 1.00

02:04:17.000 You can't be running shit with a thin neck. 1.00

02:04:19.000 How could you be running shit with a thin neck? 1.00

02:04:22.000 Your mom's house got this guy. 1.00

02:04:24.000 Oh, that neck guy? 1.00

02:04:25.000 Damn long neck. 1.00

02:04:26.000 What do you mean? 1.00

02:04:27.000 He's got the longest...

02:04:28.000 Who's this guy?

02:04:30.000 Super skinny kid.

02:04:31.000 I have seen that guy.

02:04:33.000 I thought you were going to bring up that guy who's been in the internet memes.

02:04:36.000 The dude who's now fighting MMA. Black guy.

02:04:39.000 Whose neck starts at the top of his head and goes straight down the air. 1.00

02:04:43.000 He's got the craziest neck ever. 0.88

02:04:44.000 He's got a weird neck.

02:04:46.000 Oh, I thought it was just like distorted.

02:04:48.000 No.

02:04:49.000 Oh, that's real.

02:04:49.000 No, there's a bunch of pictures of this cat.

02:04:51.000 I've been seeing that.

02:04:51.000 Yeah.

02:04:52.000 And I was just like, oh, they just did the thing and made it.

02:04:54.000 No, they didn't do the thing. 0.91

02:04:55.000 Dude has a nutty neck. 1.00

02:04:58.000 You know, some girls have giant tits. 1.00

02:04:59.000 This guy has just a crazy neck. 1.00

02:05:01.000 Yeah, I mean, some people just have huge hands.

02:05:03.000 He's an MMA fighter?

02:05:04.000 He's going to start fighting MMA. Where's he from?

02:05:06.000 I don't know.

02:05:07.000 Probably Florida.

02:05:08.000 Wait, what did you do?

02:05:09.000 I bet he's from Florida.

02:05:10.000 Look at him.

02:05:10.000 Look at his neck.

02:05:13.000 He got arrested again?

02:05:14.000 What does it say?

02:05:15.000 When did he get arrested?

02:05:17.000 Look at his neck.

02:05:20.000 Well, someone's going to teach him, but what is going on with that neck?

02:05:24.000 That's his real neck. 0.99

02:05:25.000 That is fucking crazy. 0.99

02:05:26.000 That's like he's got a double neck. 1.00

02:05:28.000 Maybe he just has a small jaw.

02:05:29.000 No, that is a big neck.

02:05:30.000 What do his parents look like?

02:05:32.000 I bet they have giant necks too.

02:05:34.000 A mom or a dad?

02:05:36.000 Mom. 0.88

02:05:36.000 Mom's a thick old bulldog looking lady. 0.88

02:05:40.000 First police smoke shot showed off his really big neck.

02:05:42.000 This time he's not smiling.

02:05:44.000 So it's the same.

02:05:46.000 So he's probably a power lifter or something like that. 1.00

02:05:50.000 And plus got a fucked up neck. 1.00

02:05:52.000 What's his name? 1.00

02:05:53.000 They don't know his name?

02:05:54.000 No need to blow this poor man's spot up. 1.00

02:05:55.000 Just because he's got a fucked up neck. 1.00

02:06:02.000 But I take his neck over the skinny neck. 1.00

02:06:04.000 No, I wouldn't.

02:06:05.000 You know what? 1.00

02:06:05.000 Maybe his neck is like genetically fucked up like that. 1.00

02:06:08.000 And maybe the guy with the skinny neck just doesn't work out. 0.99

02:06:10.000 Like the situation...

02:06:11.000 So that's what...

02:06:12.000 It's not...

02:06:12.000 It doesn't bug me when somebody is just...

02:06:14.000 They have, you know, a slender neck.

02:06:16.000 But when they go through so much trouble to look like an alpha male.

02:06:20.000 Right.

02:06:20.000 But they have that little chicken neck.

02:06:22.000 Right.

02:06:23.000 And then they're posing like they're...

02:06:25.000 That's gotta be a big issue with you.

02:06:27.000 Like, as a woman. 0.91

02:06:28.000 Like, the way you interact with men.

02:06:30.000 As a world champion Muay Thai woman.

02:06:33.000 Yeah, I haven't figured that out.

02:06:35.000 You have to have a hard time with the men.

02:06:37.000 I do.

02:06:37.000 I bet you do.

02:06:38.000 I do.

02:06:39.000 Yeah.

02:06:40.000 Yeah.

02:06:40.000 Because you need to get a real one.

02:06:41.000 Like, a real, real one.

02:06:42.000 Like, that's the only way it's gonna work.

02:06:44.000 Yeah, it isn't.

02:06:45.000 No.

02:06:45.000 Yeah.

02:06:45.000 Imagine.

02:06:46.000 It's hard out there for a pimp.

02:06:49.000 It is, right?

02:06:50.000 So I had his great boyfriend, but we went out of country.

02:06:57.000 We fought on the same card.

02:06:58.000 He fought the day before me.

02:07:00.000 I fought the next day.

02:07:02.000 During the fight, he almost gets knocked out.

02:07:06.000 As this guy is mauling him, he goes like this.

02:07:11.000 What do you think I was thinking?

02:07:15.000 Not good thoughts.

02:07:17.000 The boyfriend.

02:07:18.000 The boyfriend.

02:07:18.000 My boyfriend.

02:07:20.000 Like this.

02:07:21.000 Yeah, you didn't like it. 1.00

02:07:22.000 Fuck no. 1.00

02:07:23.000 Did it turn you off? 1.00

02:07:24.000 Oh my god, so much.

02:07:26.000 Whoa. 1.00

02:07:27.000 I was like, dude, you're getting fucked up. 1.00

02:07:29.000 And as you're falling to the canvas, you still need to go, fuck you. 1.00

02:07:32.000 You're like, fuck you. 1.00

02:07:35.000 So the way he's getting beaten was fucking with you. 1.00

02:07:39.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:07:39.000 It wasn't just that he was getting beaten. 1.00

02:07:41.000 I don't care.

02:07:42.000 I don't care.

02:07:43.000 Yeah, I don't care.

02:07:44.000 That he wasn't digging in.

02:07:45.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:07:46.000 Like, you gotta fucking, like, take that shit. 1.00

02:07:49.000 Take it. 1.00

02:07:50.000 Yeah, like, you know, like a champ or like a fighter.

02:07:53.000 Right.

02:07:54.000 Yeah, you can't be like...

02:07:55.000 Wow.

02:07:56.000 Ugh.

02:08:00.000 Was that the beginning of the end?

02:08:02.000 Yeah.

02:08:02.000 And he was a great boyfriend.

02:08:05.000 He was great.

02:08:06.000 Tap, tap, tap, tap, tap.

02:08:07.000 Yes, it was.

02:08:07.000 Tap, tap, tap.

02:08:08.000 It was.

02:08:09.000 Maybe sometimes it's like that's the problem.

02:08:11.000 It's the balance.

02:08:12.000 The ones who are not going to be great boyfriends are the ones that are going to turn you on.

02:08:15.000 Yeah.

02:08:16.000 Because they're ruthless.

02:08:17.000 Yeah.

02:08:20.000 I was like, I can balance that shit. 1.00

02:08:21.000 Like I said. 1.00

02:08:22.000 I can be ruthless.

02:08:23.000 Yeah.

02:08:23.000 And be like, gentle.

02:08:25.000 I was like, I don't...

02:08:26.000 Well, I mean, I'm sure some men can.

02:08:28.000 It's like salt, sweet, like kale chips.

02:08:30.000 It's great.

02:08:30.000 Yeah, I get it.

02:08:31.000 I don't get it.

02:08:32.000 Some people can.

02:08:35.000 But I think your requirements, particularly as a fighter, are going to be extraordinarily high as a world champion fighter.

02:08:43.000 Yeah.

02:08:44.000 You're almost better off dating a guy who's like a Navy SEAL or something who can't fight.

02:08:50.000 Or maybe he can fight, but he's not a fighter.

02:08:53.000 He knows how to fight. 1.00

02:08:54.000 He's a killer. 1.00

02:08:55.000 He's a killer. 1.00

02:08:56.000 Not a fighter. 1.00

02:08:57.000 He's not in there.

02:08:59.000 Maybe you could relate more.

02:09:02.000 Yeah.

02:09:03.000 Yeah.

02:09:04.000 I don't know.

02:09:05.000 Trying to give you dating advice?

02:09:07.000 I'll try it out and I'll let you know.

02:09:09.000 Well, I think that I've noticed this. 0.86

02:09:11.000 I mean, except for the ones that are lesbians. 1.00

02:09:13.000 I always look at women who are fighters and go, hmm, like they're limited in their dating pool. 1.00

02:09:19.000 Because girls who are fighters, they don't want to date someone who can't fight. 1.00

02:09:23.000 The last thing a girl wants who's like a professional fighter. 1.00

02:09:27.000 Or if somebody was really smart.

02:09:30.000 Yeah, but even if the guy's really smart.

02:09:33.000 Because then they, like, as long as they ace me somewhere, they have to be really, you're like, no, no.

02:09:40.000 You can say that.

02:09:41.000 You're trying to find a nice man.

02:09:42.000 You're like, maybe I can compromise. 0.99

02:09:44.000 No, you need a killer.

02:09:45.000 No, what would bother me about that was like, you're a fighter, but you're not being a fighter. 0.83

02:09:50.000 Right.

02:09:51.000 I'm just like...

02:09:51.000 You're not savage enough.

02:09:53.000 Well, you're worried that if the shit hits the fan, that's what every woman is worried. 1.00

02:09:57.000 If the shit hits the fan, how do you react? 1.00

02:10:02.000 How do you react? 1.00

02:10:03.000 And you don't really know until you see someone react when the shit hits the fan. 1.00

02:10:07.000 And when you see the shit hitting the fan, you see them going, yikes! 1.00

02:10:11.000 You're like, fuck! 1.00

02:10:12.000 I can't count on you. 1.00

02:10:14.000 See, I think he would have been better outside of the fighting situation.

02:10:17.000 Outside? 1.00

02:10:18.000 If the shit hit the fan. 1.00

02:10:19.000 Oh, so in the real world. 1.00

02:10:20.000 So for me, it was definitely like fighter's ego.

02:10:24.000 Like, nah, dude, you need to have more pride than that.

02:10:26.000 Well, how you do anything is how you do everything.

02:10:28.000 Okay.

02:10:30.000 Alright.

02:10:31.000 Maybe, yeah.

02:10:32.000 Especially under duress.

02:10:33.000 I mean, people make mistakes.

02:10:35.000 People panic.

02:10:36.000 People learn from those mistakes.

02:10:38.000 I mean, there are people that fold in fights that come back way stronger and will never fold because they folded before and they felt it.

02:10:44.000 Because they made a mistake.

02:10:45.000 You know, you make a split-second decision in the middle of a fight and, you know, something...

02:10:51.000 Something inside you, it exposes weakness that maybe you weren't prepared for the world to see.

02:10:57.000 And then when you feel the pain of that weakness, you make a vow that you're never going to experience that again.

02:11:02.000 That's entirely possible.

02:11:03.000 I feel like mental strength is not, I don't think you either have it or you don't have it. 1.00

02:11:08.000 I don't buy that shit. 0.99

02:11:09.000 I think you can develop it. 1.00

02:11:10.000 I think you can build it.

02:11:11.000 And I think mental toughness and just the ability to persevere is something that you can cultivate.

02:11:17.000 I really believe that.

02:11:18.000 Absolutely.

02:11:19.000 Absolutely. 1.00

02:11:19.000 So maybe he needed to feel shying away and feel you going, hey motherfucker, you know, when you're getting hit, don't do any of this shit. 1.00

02:11:27.000 Maybe someone needs to hear that so then when it's happening they go, fuck that, I'm not doing this anymore. 1.00

02:11:32.000 Dig deep. 0.99

02:11:33.000 And then they dig deep and step to the side or clinch or do something.

02:11:36.000 They just like go out like a warrior.

02:11:38.000 Yeah.

02:11:38.000 You know?

02:11:39.000 Or figure your way, a better response to the situation.

02:11:44.000 Then again, sometimes you get clipped and your neuromuscular system just goes, and everything's just off.

02:11:51.000 It's just, you're not responding right because your system's getting shut down.

02:11:54.000 But it was more like, ah, get away from me.

02:11:56.000 That's not good.

02:11:57.000 Yeah, I didn't like that.

02:12:02.000 Miriam, we just said two and a half hours.

02:12:05.000 What?

02:12:06.000 Flew by.

02:12:06.000 It's 4.30.

02:12:07.000 That wasn't scary at all.

02:12:09.000 It wasn't scary at all.

02:12:09.000 I told you, my friend.

02:12:11.000 We're going to take care of you.

02:12:13.000 We're all good. 1.00

02:12:14.000 Listen, we'll have you on again when you have a fight scheduled and we'll pump that shit up. 0.99

02:12:18.000 Okay. 0.99

02:12:19.000 Let me know when.

02:12:20.000 Let me know what it is.

02:12:21.000 Bare knuckle boxing.

02:12:23.000 Whatever.

02:12:24.000 Maybe, right?

02:12:24.000 They're doing a lot of that.

02:12:25.000 You got to go to Wyoming and do it on a ranch or something, right?

02:12:27.000 Pay well.

02:12:28.000 Does it pay well?

02:12:29.000 Yeah.

02:12:30.000 Does it?

02:12:30.000 Uh-huh.

02:12:31.000 Way more.

02:12:31.000 Really?

02:12:32.000 I know somebody that did four rounds for 10,000.

02:12:35.000 Four rounds for $10,000.

02:12:37.000 Yes.

02:12:37.000 You say that like that's a lot of money.

02:12:39.000 For that?

02:12:41.000 For just boxing?

02:12:43.000 Four rounds?

02:12:44.000 Boxing bare knuckle.

02:12:44.000 What if you break your hands?

02:12:47.000 We'll talk.

02:12:49.000 Tell people how to find you on Instagram, on Twitter, all that stuff.

02:12:53.000 Oh, I'm Miriam Nakamoto.

02:12:55.000 Spell it out so people know.

02:12:56.000 M-I-R-I-A-M Nakamoto. 0.88

02:13:01.000 Okay, let's not help out.

02:13:02.000 Figure out Nakamoto.

02:13:03.000 Nakamoto.

02:13:03.000 It's on my Instagram.

02:13:05.000 She'll be linked there.

02:13:06.000 All right.

02:13:06.000 Thanks, man.

02:13:07.000 Appreciate you.

02:13:08.000 Bye, everybody.

The Joe Rogan Experience - October 19, 2010

JRE MMA Show #49 with Miriam Nakamoto

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Transcript