The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #55 with Kelly Pavlik

00:00:03.000 Three, two...

00:00:04.000 Youngstown in the house.

00:00:06.000 How are you, brother?

00:00:07.000 How you doing?

00:00:07.000 Good.

00:00:08.000 Thanks for doing this, man.

00:00:08.000 I appreciate it.

00:00:09.000 No, thanks for having me on.

00:00:11.000 I appreciate it.

00:00:11.000 You're out here working with Danny Garcia?

00:00:16.000 No, Mikey Garcia.

00:00:17.000 Mikey Garcia and Garcia Camp.

00:00:21.000 Also, I came out, you know, a couple things...

00:00:23.000 As we mentioned earlier, a buddy of mine, Mark LaMica, throwing some ideas around and kind of just taking a week out here in California to, you know, keep moving.

00:00:32.000 It's nice, right?

00:00:33.000 It is.

00:00:34.000 Yeah, it was nice in Ohio, believe it or not.

00:00:37.000 And then this morning they woke up to like three inches of snow.

00:00:40.000 So I'm out here enjoying and they got the snow.

00:00:44.000 Well, the thing about L.A. is no one's from here.

00:00:46.000 So everybody grew up in a place like Youngstown or something like that.

00:00:49.000 Like you were saying, you're running into a bunch of Youngstown people out here.

00:00:51.000 Tony Hinchcliffe got super excited to see you.

00:00:53.000 Absolutely.

00:00:54.000 That's what's weird about that.

00:00:55.000 I'm excited to see him, and he's excited to see me.

00:00:58.000 It was really cool.

00:01:01.000 I've heard of Tony, and I knew of Tony before and everything.

00:01:04.000 And then to finally be able to meet him and somebody from Youngstown that's doing great things, it was kind of cool.

00:01:10.000 Yeah.

00:01:11.000 Yeah, no, it was cool hanging out with you when we were in Columbus, too.

00:01:13.000 That was a fun time.

00:01:14.000 That was good eating stew.

00:01:14.000 I was.

00:01:16.000 Yeah, what was the name of that place again?

00:01:18.000 You guys picked it, I believe.

00:01:19.000 I think it was...

00:01:20.000 Italian Market, I think.

00:01:21.000 Whose joint was that?

00:01:22.000 It was your friend's friend of a friend.

00:01:24.000 Matt Brown's friend, right?

00:01:25.000 Matt the Immortal?

00:01:25.000 Yeah, I don't remember the name.

00:01:26.000 Yeah, another good guy. 1.00

00:01:28.000 Yeah, no, he's a fucking scary dude. 1.00

00:01:31.000 He's such a savage. 1.00

00:01:32.000 I gotta tell you a funny story with him.

00:01:34.000 We're at my gym and he came and did a seminar at my gym.

00:01:37.000 And I have just a fitness gym right now there.

00:01:40.000 And he was going over and he was showing people when he kind of came in and I was showing like a little punch and a hook.

00:01:46.000 And he started doing the elbow off the hook.

00:01:49.000 Now, I'm a pretty big guy now since I retired, and I'm working on losing weight.

00:01:55.000 But he hit me with that elbow on my arm, and it just hurt.

00:01:58.000 And it was slow motion.

00:01:59.000 He wasn't throwing it hard. 1.00

00:02:00.000 And I'm going, if this son of a bitch really wanted to turn that over... 0.99

00:02:05.000 I wouldn't want to get hit by it. 1.00

00:02:06.000 Elbows are awful.

00:02:07.000 Bones are awful. 0.99

00:02:10.000 It always weirds me out that the UFC has little padding on the gloves, but there's no padding on your shins, no padding on your elbows, no padding on your knees.

00:02:20.000 It's a terrible way to take a beating.

00:02:22.000 It is, and people get into the brutality of it.

00:02:25.000 Unfortunately, not because I boxed.

00:02:26.000 I think box is more brutal.

00:02:28.000 The only reason is because if you get dropped in boxing, you got 10 seconds to get up.

00:02:33.000 Your brain could be rattled in the first round, and you could get dropped four more times in that fight.

00:02:37.000 You got 36 minutes to fight.

00:02:39.000 Unfortunately, in MMA, yeah, they're hitting you with the knees, the elbows, and if you go down, they usually stop to fight.

00:02:45.000 Rightfully so, because somebody could come down with an atomic knee drop.

00:02:49.000 That's not legal.

00:02:50.000 I know, but I'm just saying.

00:02:52.000 Or anything can happen in it.

00:02:54.000 When you were fighting, MMA wasn't as big as it is now.

00:02:57.000 But did you ever think about doing it?

00:02:59.000 No, and to be honest with you, no.

00:03:02.000 But I was always interested in it.

00:03:04.000 I was.

00:03:04.000 I was always interested in the martial arts.

00:03:07.000 Actually, that's how I got into boxing, was a young kid taking taekwondo, and I don't know if that's how you pronounce it, but...

00:03:14.000 That's how you pronounce it.

00:03:16.000 Okay.

00:03:16.000 And, you know, I got into it.

00:03:18.000 To me, it was kind of like boring.

00:03:20.000 I'm a young kid.

00:03:21.000 You know, I was full of piss and vinegar, and I wanted to actually get in and do something.

00:03:26.000 I played other sports.

00:03:28.000 But, you know, then after I retired a little bit, I kind of strayed away from everything in a fight game.

00:03:34.000 And I started getting interested in jujitsu and stuff like that.

00:03:39.000 How old were you when you retired?

00:03:40.000 30. 30. That's young.

00:03:42.000 Yeah, still am pretty young.

00:03:44.000 How old are you now?

00:03:44.000 36. Yeah, you're still in the range, you know?

00:03:49.000 That's the effective range.

00:03:51.000 Oh, that's why I've been working out and I kind of slow down on the powerlifting a lot and been getting flexible again.

00:03:59.000 So you haven't had a fight in six years.

00:04:01.000 Do you ever get the itch?

00:04:02.000 That's why I'm saying...

00:04:04.000 Are you getting the itch right now?

00:04:05.000 Yeah.

00:04:05.000 Really?

00:04:06.000 Yeah, I've been...

00:04:10.000 Well, another reason why I came out and was talking with Mark and everything, but, you know, I don't want to leave nobody ever on either, you know?

00:04:17.000 Right.

00:04:17.000 This is something— You just think— I'm really thinking about it, and I'm working out, losing the weight, but at the same time, there's a lot of process behind that, too.

00:04:26.000 I would have to sit down with the family— Just go over a lot of things, you know.

00:04:30.000 Are you doing any boxing these days?

00:04:32.000 I've been working out just sitting in the bag, pads, stuff like that.

00:04:35.000 You know, I'm still lifting, but nothing.

00:04:38.000 You're jacked, dude. 1.00

00:04:39.000 Look at the size of your fucking arms. 1.00

00:04:40.000 I know. 1.00

00:04:41.000 You ain't fighting middleweight, son.

00:04:42.000 No, and cruiserweight is the nice area right now.

00:04:46.000 That's the range?

00:04:47.000 Yeah, anybody but Usyk, and I'm not fighting that monster. 1.00

00:04:50.000 That guy's scary as fuck. 0.99

00:04:51.000 Yeah, and I don't... 0.99

00:04:53.000 You know, the thing is, everybody, I mentioned this a couple weeks ago, and the first thing that came out about it was, he needs the money.

00:05:00.000 So I can't win for losing.

00:05:02.000 You know what I mean?

00:05:03.000 Because there's other things right now that we're talking about.

00:05:05.000 I've actually been in contact.

00:05:07.000 Believe it or not, with Dancing with the Stars.

00:05:10.000 Oh, Jesus.

00:05:11.000 So I'm having fun with it now, I guess.

00:05:13.000 Don't make no jokes on it.

00:05:14.000 I'd rather take a fight. 0.98

00:05:16.000 I'd rather fight you sick, believe me. 1.00

00:05:19.000 Dancing with the Stars is fucking hard work, man. 1.00

00:05:22.000 Talks. 0.99

00:05:23.000 Talks of it.

00:05:24.000 Which my buddy Mark's doing.

00:05:26.000 I've had a couple friends that have been on that.

00:05:28.000 Yeah.

00:05:29.000 And they said it's brutally hard work.

00:05:30.000 It is.

00:05:31.000 I have Reginald Ortiz, who was a fighter, been on it.

00:05:33.000 Yeah.

00:05:33.000 So that's where it's going, why I don't want people also, the rumor mill starting that, he's broke, he needs the money, because it's absolutely not the case.

00:05:42.000 So you retired healthy.

00:05:44.000 You retired young.

00:05:44.000 Yeah.

00:05:46.000 And you set some money away, but you still, look, you were a world champion for a reason.

00:05:46.000 Yeah.

00:05:51.000 You know, to become a real world champion, you have to have some There is.

00:06:00.000 A lot of people don't understand any combat sport.

00:06:03.000 Combat is combat.

00:06:06.000 I'm not pat myself on the back.

00:06:08.000 I don't know if it's even good to say, but combat role champion athletes and fighters, mentality-wise, you're always going to have that mentality.

00:06:18.000 And my only reason why I'm even throwing this around, and I guess that's the right term to use, because if nothing comes of it, I don't want to backlash on that either.

00:06:29.000 Because I'm still only 36, and I'm at that point where I got that small window still, you know, where I'm not 40, I'm not 38, and, you know, I've been healthy for, you know, four and a half years, and I've been working out.

00:06:44.000 What made you decide to go powerlifting?

00:06:46.000 I know, tell me that's... 1.00

00:06:48.000 Just fucking show bitches what's up. 1.00

00:06:51.000 Yeah, that's another one. 1.00

00:06:53.000 Show them guns.

00:06:53.000 Exactly, right?

00:06:54.000 I was tired.

00:06:55.000 Think about it.

00:06:55.000 I was so damn skinny.

00:06:57.000 If I turned sideways and stuck my tongue out, I looked like a zipper. 0.94

00:06:59.000 You know what I mean?

00:07:00.000 And being 6'2", having to make 160 pounds, even between fights, you still had to maintain your weight.

00:07:09.000 And I got tired of that.

00:07:10.000 What was your walking around weight?

00:07:12.000 I would walk around about 173. That's not that bad. 0.99

00:07:14.000 No, that's not.

00:07:15.000 For MMA, that's real light.

00:07:17.000 Yeah, but as I got older, yeah, it started getting a little more difficult to keep that, and I started getting up to like 175, almost 180. So now you're looking at a, and I'm still skinny at that point, so now you're looking at having to lose 20 more pounds again to get down at that age.

00:07:34.000 And it came to a point which caused a lot of issues for me in one fight with the Martinez fight, and after that, we had to jump up.

00:07:45.000 Yeah, that point of diminishing returns, right?

00:07:47.000 When you're just cutting too much weight.

00:07:49.000 When you fought Jermaine Taylor, that was 160, right?

00:07:51.000 Yes.

00:07:52.000 Yeah, dude.

00:07:53.000 That was one fight where I remember getting angry at Larry Merchant.

00:07:57.000 Larry Merchant is calling a fight.

00:07:59.000 He wasn't recognizing that you were tuning him up and you were hurting him.

00:08:04.000 He was commenting on almost like a trend that he expected to see rather than what was actually happening.

00:08:13.000 Yeah.

00:08:14.000 There was a lot of things about that fight.

00:08:15.000 I love them guys because, believe it or not, in my opinion, that was a great fight.

00:08:19.000 And I've seen that they had that fight in the top 10 middleweight, one of the top 10 middleweight fights of all time.

00:08:24.000 And that's kind of a cool thing.

00:08:26.000 But also, you know, some of that commentating though really made that fight, especially at the end, in my opinion, made that fight kind of what it was also, you know, besides the fact of me getting dropped and everything.

00:08:36.000 But I didn't agree with the judging of it.

00:08:38.000 I still had me ahead.

00:08:39.000 I went back and watched it.

00:08:40.000 I'm not one of those egotistical people either.

00:08:42.000 I like to really break down what happened in that fight.

00:08:46.000 And if I lost a round, I would say I lost a round.

00:08:49.000 I was hard on myself with that.

00:08:51.000 I watched that fight now probably ten times, and I don't see where they had Jermaine winning.

00:08:58.000 I gave them one round plus the 10-8, so that's a total of three rounds.

00:09:02.000 And I don't see how that happened.

00:09:04.000 Well, you know, I mean, we've had this conversation a hundred times in this podcast, but judging in boxing and judging in MMA, judging is just terrible.

00:09:13.000 It's sad.

00:09:15.000 It doesn't make any sense.

00:09:16.000 There's so many experts out there.

00:09:18.000 There's so many really reliable people that you can call on that would do a great job of figuring out what's going on in a fight, and for whatever reason, they don't get those jobs.

00:09:27.000 I think they've got to start doing something soon in boxing with that.

00:09:30.000 They have to figure something out with the judging.

00:09:33.000 Did you see the Charlo fight?

00:09:34.000 Yes.

00:09:35.000 Yeah.

00:09:36.000 There's a handful of people I had the argument with that actually thought Charlo lost.

00:09:41.000 I didn't think that he looked as good as he could have in that fight, but I thought he won the fight, you know, 116 and 112. But I don't know what system they could try to break down for that or try to get to actually start making some of them fights fair, but boxing's doing fantastic the past two years.

00:09:59.000 I mean, the numbers are crazy.

00:10:01.000 You've seen what The Zone did with Canelo and So it's there.

00:10:06.000 The attention's at the sport and the popularity of it's coming back.

00:10:10.000 But what could eventually hurt it again is things like the judging of the fights and the outcomes.

00:10:16.000 Well, there's certain ones where you want a criminal investigation.

00:10:21.000 Like Tim Bradley, Manny Pacquiao.

00:10:24.000 That was one where after that was up, I was like...

00:10:27.000 I was looking at the TV. I was looking to the side.

00:10:29.000 I was looking away. 0.99

00:10:30.000 I was like, what the fuck did I just see? 0.99

00:10:33.000 What just happened here? 0.99

00:10:35.000 That fight right there, I actually had to walk away with my head down.

00:10:40.000 That was probably one of the worst robberies that I've ever seen in boxing.

00:10:43.000 It was a horrible robbery.

00:10:44.000 I searched to give Tim Bradley two rounds.

00:10:48.000 I was trying to give him rounds to kind of like say, where did you get this at, in other words?

00:10:48.000 I gave him one.

00:10:54.000 And I couldn't do it.

00:10:55.000 Yeah, I love Tim Bradley too, by the way.

00:10:57.000 Awesome fighter too.

00:10:57.000 Awesome guy.

00:10:59.000 I mean, he's just all heart.

00:11:01.000 I mean, that guy's amazing.

00:11:02.000 But that just was a bad decision.

00:11:06.000 And, you know, I think there was a lady that was responsible for two really bad decisions. 1.00

00:11:11.000 Yeah.

00:11:11.000 Bird.

00:11:12.000 Hadley Bird.

00:11:13.000 There was another one, too.

00:11:13.000 Was it her or was it?

00:11:15.000 Hadley Bird.

00:11:16.000 She does MMA, too.

00:11:18.000 I want to say, yeah, Letterman's daughter, maybe?

00:11:21.000 No, there was another lady who retired from doing it after that decision. 1.00

00:11:27.000 It was like a big controversy.

00:11:29.000 Her score was so off, people were thinking she got paid off.

00:11:32.000 There's so many anymore, though, it's hard to keep up with it.

00:11:35.000 Well, the thing is, and people that are cynical or skeptical...

00:11:39.000 Do you know how much money is being bet on fights, especially a Manny Pacquiao fight?

00:11:44.000 There's so much money.

00:11:45.000 And if someone like Pacquiao is a prohibited favorite, heading to a 10th Bradley fight, I mean, who knows?

00:11:49.000 It could be 4-1, 5-1, 6-1.

00:11:52.000 Somebody rolls up with a nice brown baggy filled with hundreds.

00:11:56.000 Hey, look who we got here.

00:11:58.000 It's $30,000.

00:12:00.000 You never have to report.

00:12:01.000 I think there's more behind why that happens, too.

00:12:05.000 It has to be.

00:12:06.000 The idea that there's no bribery going on anymore is crazy.

00:12:10.000 I don't want to say it, but I think I have an idea.

00:12:13.000 I think it comes down to...

00:12:16.000 Who's putting the show on?

00:12:17.000 And who's in the pocket?

00:12:19.000 Well, Teddy Atlas was explaining it too when he was on the podcast.

00:12:22.000 One of the things that he was saying was that they take these people out to dinner.

00:12:25.000 Like, they're all in cahoots and friendly with each other.

00:12:28.000 And if there's a certain result that the promoter would like to see, these judges will lean towards that if they have a good relationship with that promoter.

00:12:39.000 You said it for me.

00:12:40.000 Yeah, that's what it did.

00:12:41.000 Look, Teddy laid it out.

00:12:44.000 And I don't know.

00:12:45.000 Yeah, it's bad because, again, boxing is really coming back.

00:12:48.000 It is.

00:12:49.000 And the fights, you got three or four weight classes right now that's so interesting.

00:12:52.000 But the bad part about it is you don't get interested in it or you don't get as excited anymore because you're afraid of the outcome of the fight.

00:13:00.000 I wasn't terribly upset at the Wilder Fury decision.

00:13:06.000 I wasn't terribly upset.

00:13:08.000 I thought, you know what, I think Tyson Fury did enough to win, but when I look at it, I like when they scored damage.

00:13:18.000 Damage means a lot to me.

00:13:20.000 When I look at that fight, when Wilder hurt him, he hurt him twice and he hurt him real bad.

00:13:28.000 I mean, I think that's worth a lot.

00:13:31.000 And I think he was always threatening.

00:13:33.000 So I felt like I don't know if I would agree with a draw.

00:13:38.000 I think it was a close decision win for Tyson Fury, but I didn't hate it.

00:13:42.000 I didn't hate it because I think I'd like to see them fight again.

00:13:45.000 Absolutely.

00:13:45.000 I mean, it was one of them fights where, yes, you're 100% right, that it could end in a draw, and I think everybody would be kind of satisfied with that.

00:13:52.000 Unfortunately, with the count knockdown, which I was so frustrated with the comments, and I had to stay away from the social media and the boxing groups and things like that.

00:14:02.000 Why is that?

00:14:07.000 Opinions of people, that's the way to put it.

00:14:09.000 That was a long count.

00:14:12.000 And this and that.

00:14:14.000 There's been thousands of fights in the last 10 years and I've very seldom heard anybody complain about a count.

00:14:20.000 That fight, they don't do a 10 second count in boxing.

00:14:23.000 They go by the referee's count.

00:14:25.000 Right.

00:14:26.000 Another thing where Wilder kind of hurt himself, the referee tells you in the locker room before the fight, and he explains it to you, go to your neutral corner.

00:14:35.000 If you come out of your neutral corner, I will stop the count.

00:14:38.000 You know that. 0.91

00:14:40.000 So the first thing I used to do when I dropped somebody is I ran my ass to that neutral corner so that referee could start counting. 0.94

00:14:47.000 I didn't see any issue with the knockdown. 0.61

00:14:49.000 I even recorded it on my phone, and if you did go by the 10-second count, Tyson Fury still beat it.

00:14:54.000 Really?

00:14:55.000 Yes, I have it.

00:14:56.000 I'd have to go through and find it.

00:14:58.000 I thought I saw it on Instagram.

00:15:02.000 I think it was on Wilder's Instagram, where he had it where the count starts right when Fury drops.

00:15:08.000 I counted it almost right before his back hits the ground until where he got up.

00:15:13.000 And again, that's only a 10-second count without a referee even coming over to it.

00:15:19.000 But as far as the fight itself, I gave Wilder, obviously, the two knockdowns.

00:15:26.000 That's automatically four rounds.

00:15:28.000 And I gave him one other round after that.

00:15:31.000 I thought Tyson Ferry controlled the action, controlled the momentum of the fight.

00:15:37.000 On the flip side of it, I think that Wilder actually could have made that an easier fight too.

00:15:42.000 You know, Wilder actually has a hard time with his control.

00:15:45.000 He don't know how to really work to the body.

00:15:47.000 I don't want to put it on a trainer.

00:15:49.000 I don't know what the issue is with that, but he neglected that body a lot throughout the fight.

00:15:53.000 And I just thought that's why Tyson won most of those rounds.

00:15:56.000 You know, he just controlled the action, the pace, and was kind of able to do what he wanted to.

00:15:59.000 And I think that if Wilder went back with his trainer and watched the tape of that fight, they're going to see a lot of opportunities that were missed in that fight.

00:16:07.000 Well, you know, what's crazy about Wilder is how little time he's actually been boxing.

00:16:11.000 I mean, it's really stunning.

00:16:12.000 When he was on here, he told us that he made it to the Olympic team a year and a half into learning boxing.

00:16:19.000 Yeah.

00:16:20.000 And he won a bronze medal.

00:16:21.000 In the heavyweight division, though, you can kind of get away with that, too.

00:16:24.000 Yeah.

00:16:24.000 You can.

00:16:25.000 You know, most of your heavy...

00:16:26.000 Well, back then also, were big guys who came up.

00:16:29.000 Usually most of them were football players or something like that.

00:16:32.000 And they kind of just got into the sport and...

00:16:34.000 Still, even to this day, you're talking about maybe three heavyweights that really could throw down, as where some of the other guys are just big, sloppy guys that come in.

00:16:43.000 So what do we got now?

00:16:44.000 You got Luis Ortiz, you got Fury, Wilder, Joshua, who else?

00:16:51.000 Joseph Parker...

00:16:52.000 Yeah, Parker.

00:16:53.000 I think right now, Parker's one of the guys that could actually still upset anybody in the heavyweight division, especially with that style that he has.

00:17:01.000 So it's getting interesting again, though.

00:17:03.000 It is.

00:17:05.000 Well, I think with Wilder and Fury, that was one of the more interesting heavyweight title fights in a long time.

00:17:11.000 And Wilder, it's so weird.

00:17:13.000 He's so different.

00:17:14.000 He weighs 209 pounds.

00:17:16.000 He's skinny as a rail. 0.96

00:17:18.000 It looks like you get hit in the face with a missile. 0.99

00:17:18.000 He hits you. 0.99

00:17:21.000 I mean, it's crazy.

00:17:22.000 Well, because that is a missile he's firing. 0.99

00:17:23.000 Fucking crazy power that guy has, isn't it? 0.99

00:17:26.000 And I try to explain to people on that, too. 0.99

00:17:28.000 You don't have to be a big guy.

00:17:30.000 It's all about the leverage, how you torque, how you generate that power.

00:17:36.000 He's just one of them guys.

00:17:37.000 That's one of the things where you either have it, you got it in the cradle, or you don't.

00:17:43.000 That's another one you try to explain, even like in baseball.

00:17:46.000 You're either a home run hitter or you're not.

00:17:48.000 You could work on it a little bit and maybe knock one or two more home runs out or knock a guy or two out more, but if you don't have it, you're not going to unless you really go back over and find the time and patience to Reprogram that fighter and change the whole style.

00:18:03.000 Yeah, it feels like one punch knockout power you either have or you don't.

00:18:07.000 But the guys who can put it on you and stop you, like Julio Cesar Chavez, never had really that one punch knockout power, but he fucked a lot of people up.

00:18:16.000 And he had that body shot, too. 0.92

00:18:18.000 He didn't need a knockout punch to the head.

00:18:20.000 Dude, he was so perfect.

00:18:22.000 When he was in his prime, the way he would fight was constant bobbing, weaving, moving in, and then once he put that pace on you, it was just constant damage, constant punches, the volume, the volume, the accuracy, and the fact that he never got tired.

00:18:37.000 He would just keep that pace up, bap, bap, bap, bap, bap, and you would see guys just start to wilt, just backing up all the time, just wilt under that pressure.

00:18:44.000 And that's that body attack that he had.

00:18:47.000 How he invested into that body from the early rounds.

00:18:50.000 People carry those punches.

00:18:52.000 You know, they carry that into the fifth and sixth round.

00:18:54.000 And it was brutal.

00:18:55.000 You know, I couldn't imagine fighting.

00:18:57.000 I fought some tough guys, but I was glad, you know, being a tall guy, nobody ever went to the body like that against me.

00:19:03.000 I would have hated that. 0.99

00:19:05.000 It's a fucking rough way to make a living, bro. 0.99

00:19:08.000 There is Chavez in his prime. 1.00

00:19:10.000 God damn, he was good. 0.99

00:19:11.000 Woo! 1.00

00:19:12.000 He was so good.

00:19:14.000 I mean, it's just constant movement, too. 0.99

00:19:16.000 Constant cutting angles and the fucking pressure. 0.99

00:19:20.000 Another one like him was Duran, too. 1.00

00:19:22.000 That's Roger Mayweather, right?

00:19:24.000 Yes.

00:19:24.000 Yeah.

00:19:25.000 Black Mamba.

00:19:27.000 Yeah, people forgot about Roger.

00:19:29.000 Yeah, he just systematically broke you down, Chavez.

00:19:32.000 Yeah.

00:19:33.000 Very tactical and textbook, and it makes many mistakes.

00:19:37.000 He wasn't flashy, he wasn't overly fast, he wasn't overly powerful, but he just broke you down the right way and threw the right punches.

00:19:44.000 Yeah, that's the best way to put it.

00:19:46.000 Threw the right punches, he was just relentless, and he was constantly moving forward.

00:19:52.000 Constant pressure. 0.99

00:19:53.000 Goddamn, he was good. 0.98

00:19:54.000 Yep, and you know Greg Haugen. 0.97

00:19:57.000 Oh, remember that one? 0.97

00:19:57.000 Greg Haugen said he fought a bunch of Tijuana taxi drivers and he beat the shit out of Greg Haugen. 0.97

00:20:02.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:20:03.000 There's those left hooks to the body. 1.00

00:20:04.000 Those are some tough taxi drivers.

00:20:06.000 Young fighters, man.

00:20:07.000 You want to emulate a guy who just fought with perfect technique.

00:20:11.000 This is the guy.

00:20:12.000 Well, you know, that comes down to another thing that I was breaking down.

00:20:15.000 Actually, I touched on it on my show a lot.

00:20:19.000 A lot of people get mixed up and confused on the fact of footwork.

00:20:24.000 We're good to go.

00:20:42.000 What I mean by that is because, yeah, he'd make you miss, but Purnell Whitaker a lot of times put himself out of range by moving like that.

00:20:49.000 You know, he'd make that move or he'd do it too much and then he wasn't there to counter.

00:20:53.000 So what good did it do?

00:20:54.000 You get guys like Chavez or Duran or guys like Mikey Garcia now, they take that one little step, inches and angles.

00:21:02.000 They take that one step and they're right in position for that punch and They take the opposite step to suffocate your punch and throw you off.

00:21:09.000 They spin you around.

00:21:11.000 That's where footwork comes in, and Chavez was great at that.

00:21:14.000 Yeah, he was always in range.

00:21:17.000 He was always in range.

00:21:18.000 He was never running away.

00:21:21.000 The guy who does it the best today about cutting angles and being bright in front of you and you can't hit him is Lomachenko.

00:21:30.000 I mean, Lomachenko stands right in front of you, and then he's not.

00:21:34.000 And then he's over here, and then he's punching you in the face.

00:21:36.000 T.J. Dillashaw, who's a UFC Bantamweight champion, said he sparred with him.

00:21:40.000 And he said the first round was like, you know, Lomachenko's just feeling him up, just figuring him out.

00:21:46.000 And, you know, he's like, man, I'm kind of hanging in there with this guy.

00:21:49.000 And then his dad yelled something in Russian.

00:21:52.000 And then the second round, Lomachenko's just dancing around him, stepping to the side, touching him in the face.

00:21:57.000 And unfortunately, that was the only round they put on YouTube, too.

00:21:59.000 You know what I mean?

00:22:00.000 Yeah, I've seen that.

00:22:00.000 Yeah.

00:22:01.000 You know the thing with Lomachenko is this.

00:22:05.000 And I tell people also, Floyd Mayweather is an unbelievable defensive fighter.

00:22:10.000 But Floyd was really good on drawing you in and kind of countering off that.

00:22:15.000 His defense and his reflexes were amazing, but he kind of lured you in a little bit, made you make a mistake, and then he would counter you.

00:22:23.000 Lomachenko, on the other hand, is a guy you could throw a punch and that punch could be in midair, and he's spinning and he's already behind you.

00:22:29.000 It's the athleticism.

00:22:32.000 Is astonishing.

00:22:33.000 I have not seen it.

00:22:35.000 Granted, can he lose?

00:22:37.000 Absolutely.

00:22:37.000 It's boxing.

00:22:38.000 And if you get one of them rugged guys that are just going to come in and say, you know what?

00:22:42.000 Screw it. 0.99

00:22:43.000 I'm just going to get hit, but I'm going to hit him. 0.99

00:22:45.000 That may be a type of fighter that beats Solomachenko.

00:22:48.000 Well, who was it that was the Mexican guy who beat him in one of his first fights?

00:22:54.000 Oh, Solis?

00:22:56.000 Solito.

00:22:57.000 Solito.

00:22:58.000 Right, right, right.

00:22:59.000 Yeah, that was the kind of fight that he fought.

00:23:01.000 Yeah.

00:23:02.000 Just dirty, got on top of him. 1.00

00:23:04.000 But you've got to understand on that point, too, that was Lomachenko's second pro fight.

00:23:07.000 Yeah.

00:23:09.000 Against a real veteran.

00:23:10.000 A guy who's been there and done it and seen it.

00:23:13.000 And that's the argument.

00:23:14.000 And it's hard to explain.

00:23:15.000 Again, and that was another argument on these that I get a little frustrated reading.

00:23:21.000 Second pro fight, usually in boxing, it goes like the first year, you're up four, six.

00:23:28.000 Second year, maybe you start getting up to eight.

00:23:30.000 But you get a good amount of fights under your belt before you start getting into the 10 rounds and 12 rounds.

00:23:37.000 You're talking about a kid coming out of the amateurs, fighting three three-minute rounds or four two-minute rounds, depending on whatever tournament or international tournament it is.

00:23:46.000 And he's going right into a 12-round fight.

00:23:49.000 I know myself coming up, and the process that Top Rank brought me up, which was a great process, too.

00:23:57.000 They picked the fights, and they made sure that the fights that they picked for me were the correct fights.

00:24:01.000 And they groomed me the right way, you know, by rounds and everything else.

00:24:04.000 And I know just jumping from 6 to 8, the difference in that, you know?

00:24:09.000 Let alone being a kid, and you're going into your second pro fight, and you're fighting a 12-round fight.

00:24:14.000 So if he lost that fight, which he came back and he made it a really close fight, I would have to tip my hat to him just on the fact that he was able to go 12 rounds.

00:24:23.000 People take a lot away from that fighter.

00:24:26.000 What he accomplished is something that not many can do.

00:24:30.000 Well, it's crazy.

00:24:31.000 I mean, he had a second pro title at how many fights in?

00:24:36.000 Yeah, the second fight was for the world title, then he won the world title in his third pro fight.

00:24:40.000 Yeah, that's insane.

00:24:41.000 But he's had more than one world title, right?

00:24:45.000 Yes, he's won, I think, three different weight classes, though.

00:24:48.000 But his second one was some insanely short...

00:24:52.000 See, pull up his record.

00:24:53.000 I believe if I'm right, I looked this up.

00:24:56.000 What's that?

00:24:56.000 This says his first fight was for the international featherweight title.

00:24:59.000 That was against Toledo?

00:25:01.000 Ramirez.

00:25:02.000 He said he lost against Toledo for the vacant WBO featherweight title.

00:25:06.000 So what was the first title?

00:25:06.000 Oh, okay.

00:25:09.000 International featherweight title, WBO. Yeah, that's not a world title.

00:25:14.000 They have a bunch of weird titles, right?

00:25:15.000 Like international title, continental title.

00:25:18.000 You're assaulting me.

00:25:19.000 I had the WBO. You were the world champion, motherfucker. 1.00

00:25:23.000 But you had all of it. 1.00

00:25:24.000 You were unified.

00:25:25.000 Well, I should have been.

00:25:26.000 By all rights.

00:25:28.000 But Taylor vacated, too.

00:25:30.000 Oh, that's right.

00:25:30.000 Yeah.

00:25:31.000 But, you know, that's why I get mad and that's another big argument in boxing.

00:25:34.000 How you break that down between the lineal and unanimous.

00:25:39.000 You know, I had to ring the WBO. Scroll up CC's whole record.

00:25:43.000 So, what was his...

00:25:46.000 Okay, so his second world title was when?

00:25:50.000 Retained, retained.

00:25:52.000 Okay.

00:25:52.000 One.

00:25:52.000 One, two, three, four, five, six fights in.

00:25:57.000 He's in his second.

00:25:58.000 That's when he wins his second title.

00:26:02.000 Six fights in.

00:26:03.000 He wins a junior and a lightweight title.

00:26:04.000 That's insane.

00:26:05.000 The international, okay, the first one wasn't a world title fight.

00:26:05.000 Yeah.

00:26:09.000 But the second one was the WBO world title fight.

00:26:12.000 Eleven fights in, he wins his third world title. 0.99

00:26:14.000 What in the fuck? 0.86

00:26:15.000 I believe now there was at one point it was seven world champions and just that short period of fights I believe it's around eight now eight world champions he's fought in just that short period three different weight classes I think when he fought Rigondi out, 0.99

00:26:33.000 you really got a chance to see how he handles a real world-class, you know, Cuban amateur system-trained, top-of-the-food-chain boxer.

00:26:45.000 And he just put it to that dude.

00:26:48.000 That was the fight that actually really sold me on Lomachenko.

00:26:52.000 Because I thought for a fact that that was going to be a chess match because of the boxing ability from Rigondiou.

00:26:58.000 Their styles were very similar.

00:27:00.000 And I thought that, you know, I was like, it's going to be a boring fight for the first, like, four rounds, which I still would have liked because I like watching that type of fights, you know?

00:27:00.000 Yeah.

00:27:08.000 And I see I go in there and I'm expecting this fight, you know, the amateur background of both guys, how talented the guys are and the skill level of both guys.

00:27:18.000 And then next thing I know, I'm two or three rounds into it and I'm going, he's playing with Rigondeau.

00:27:23.000 Yeah.

00:27:24.000 I'm going, hell. 0.99

00:27:24.000 Playing with him. 0.99

00:27:25.000 Yeah.

00:27:26.000 That's the fight that really sold me on Lomachenko, that he's that good.

00:27:29.000 My man Vinny Pazienza called that.

00:27:32.000 Not Vinny Pazienza the boxer, Vinny Paz the rapper.

00:27:34.000 This guy, Jedi Mind Tricks, he called it.

00:27:36.000 He was taking bets on Instagram.

00:27:41.000 He called it that early too?

00:27:42.000 Yeah, so he was taking bets on Instagram if you think Rigondeo has anything for him.

00:27:46.000 He's like, find me in the DMs.

00:27:49.000 He goes, let's bet.

00:27:51.000 I took Lomachenko in that fight, but I thought it was going to be a close fight, a really close fight, and I thought Lomachenko was going to pull ahead in the later rounds and win that fight.

00:28:00.000 So that's why it really surprised me.

00:28:03.000 Well, it was a stunning display of talent.

00:28:06.000 He's such a weird guy, too, because his background, you know the story where his father took him out of boxing and made him do traditional Russian dancing for several years and just made him learn that for footwork.

00:28:18.000 It seems like his dad was just a mastermind architect of a champion.

00:28:23.000 Yeah, you probably know more on this than I would.

00:28:25.000 Didn't he also have a martial art background?

00:28:27.000 I heard.

00:28:28.000 He definitely can do martial arts techniques.

00:28:31.000 I've seen it, but I don't know what...

00:28:33.000 See if he had a martial arts background.

00:28:35.000 Maybe.

00:28:36.000 I don't know.

00:28:37.000 That makes sense.

00:28:38.000 His footwork, though, is so extraordinary.

00:28:41.000 And if that really is that dancing background, like learning the footwork and the way he's so agile with the stepping of his feet, I think a lot of people are going to learn and mirror that.

00:28:53.000 Yeah, his training regimen is pretty brutal.

00:28:55.000 So I got a buddy, Roger Romo, a good friend of mine.

00:28:59.000 He's actually, he was working for a little while there up until the last fight.

00:29:02.000 He was a strength and conditioning coach with Cecilio Flores, who was mine when I was in Oxnard training.

00:29:07.000 And they said it was just crazy, the hours that he puts in, how he trains, how hard he trains, and some of the drills that he does.

00:29:14.000 You know, I'm looking at them and going, I could use these not for me, but I could use them for some of the athletes that I got now.

00:29:21.000 Yeah, he's definitely something special.

00:29:23.000 And, you know, you get those guys, and it's kind of a shame that he's a little too small for Terrence Crawford, you know?

00:29:30.000 I mean, I really would love to see those two fight.

00:29:33.000 But it seems like Crawford's just a little bit too heavy for him.

00:29:38.000 I agree, but that's another touchy subject, because I kind of agree with you, but I also go back, because I'm always trying to really break down and nitpick.

00:29:47.000 I look at guys like Manny Pacquiao, who came from, I believe, 112 or something like that and went up all the way to junior middleweight.

00:29:56.000 Which is crazy.

00:29:57.000 Yeah.

00:29:58.000 He's shorter than Lomachenko.

00:30:01.000 Other than his calves, I don't think anything else is much bigger than Lomachenko on his body.

00:30:06.000 And he was able to do it. 0.99

00:30:08.000 What the fuck is going on with his calves? 1.00

00:30:10.000 It's like he's keeping hams in them. 1.00

00:30:10.000 I don't know. 1.00

00:30:12.000 I don't know what he does.

00:30:13.000 You know, I wish I knew the secret to that because I could use it.

00:30:16.000 Get that secret to John Jones.

00:30:18.000 This article says that his mother still is a martial artist.

00:30:21.000 Oh, interesting.

00:30:23.000 Gymnast and martial artist.

00:30:24.000 Well, it makes sense.

00:30:25.000 A seventh boxer.

00:30:26.000 Yeah, man.

00:30:27.000 Footwork, the way he does it, it's something to watch, man.

00:30:31.000 It's just the ability to move and also to anticipate the other fighters' movements.

00:30:38.000 It's like, especially earlier in his career, it's like he was fighting guys that just seemed so crude in comparison to his approach.

00:30:45.000 Yeah, and you know what's even more crazy about it is being the opponent, because usually you go into a fight and you break down film and you're going over to film and you got a good idea of what he does right, what he does wrong, and what you might have to do.

00:30:59.000 Lomachenko, it's hard to pick up where he's going to go.

00:31:01.000 Different angles, so you can't...

00:31:03.000 You can't go, well, you know what?

00:31:04.000 After he throws the right hand, he likes to move over to the left because he does it one time and then the next time he's totally somewhere opposite.

00:31:12.000 And yeah, the angles, it's really almost impossible to break film down on him.

00:31:12.000 You know what I mean?

00:31:17.000 You know, like this last fight with this Pedrazo, everybody's going, that was the blueprint.

00:31:21.000 Yeah.

00:31:21.000 No, it wasn't.

00:31:24.000 And they're saying it was a closer fight than people expected.

00:31:27.000 I go, why?

00:31:28.000 Because he finally got hit with more than 11 punches in a fight?

00:31:30.000 Oh, that's him doing some sambo, I believe.

00:31:34.000 Yeah, he trained it when he was younger.

00:31:36.000 Greco-Roman.

00:31:37.000 Yeah, he's slamming kids.

00:31:39.000 That's right.

00:31:41.000 Well, you know what, man?

00:31:42.000 I believe in cross-training, and I think that there's certainly some skills that would make you better at different martial arts.

00:31:49.000 And I feel like if you have the ability to wrestle guys and move guys' bodies around that you would get from something like Sambo, I just feel like, as an elite boxer, having that extra strength, that extra ability to move your core that way,

00:32:05.000 I think that would be beneficial.

00:32:07.000 I mean, the thing is, no world-class boxer has the time to also be doing judo and also be doing wrestling.

00:32:14.000 You just don't have the time.

00:32:15.000 Nope.

00:32:15.000 And being in combat sports, even I know that as far as...

00:32:18.000 I'm not involved in MMA, but I know that.

00:32:20.000 You know, these guys...

00:32:22.000 They have to perfect three or four in a short period of time.

00:32:27.000 I think Matt was telling me you would know more like sometimes it's two days of one, two days of the next, trying to fit that in.

00:32:36.000 It's hard.

00:32:37.000 You cannot, especially in boxing, the sweet science where it's just hands, but you got people, that's all they do all day long.

00:32:43.000 That's why I say it's so unfair when an MMA guy goes in and fights at Mayweather because Mayweather, he perfected that.

00:32:50.000 And you've got to use just that style of boxing.

00:32:53.000 It's going to be almost impossible to beat a boxer, a world champion boxer.

00:32:57.000 Did you watch the New Year's fight?

00:32:58.000 That thing that he did with Tension Yoshikawa?

00:33:01.000 Yeah.

00:33:02.000 A lot of people think that was a fixed fight.

00:33:04.000 I think that was a 120-pound fighter fighting the best ever.

00:33:09.000 It wasn't a fixed fight.

00:33:11.000 I don't know why people think it's a fixed fight.

00:33:13.000 That guy fights at 126 pounds, I think.

00:33:16.000 I think that's his weight class.

00:33:17.000 And you could definitely tell the size difference.

00:33:19.000 Just like I could actually tell the size difference, though, when McGregor fought Floyd.

00:33:23.000 You know, I think both of Floyd's legs equaled one of McGregor's.

00:33:27.000 Yeah.

00:33:27.000 But, yeah, with that tension, that fight, the first knockdown was legit.

00:33:32.000 Yes.

00:33:32.000 And I think my personal opinion of what happened, it wasn't fixed, you know, or fake.

00:33:36.000 I believe that he got hit with that right hand and seeing how strong and how the defensive skills that Mayweather had, and I think he said, you know what, this could be a long-ass night.

00:33:46.000 And then the next couple punches, he just kind of went down because he's seen what could happen.

00:33:51.000 He knew which way that fight was going.

00:33:52.000 Really?

00:33:53.000 Yeah.

00:33:53.000 That's what you think?

00:33:54.000 I do.

00:33:54.000 The first knockdown was...

00:33:55.000 Let's play that fight.

00:33:58.000 See if you can find the fight and play it.

00:34:00.000 I feel like the first one clipped him on the temple.

00:34:02.000 He hit him with a left hook on the temple. 0.71

00:34:04.000 Hit him with a right hand, but then hit him with a left hook. 0.96

00:34:06.000 The right hand, and then he hit him afterwards as well as he's going down.

00:34:10.000 But I think that left hand to the temple is what did the real damage.

00:34:14.000 And then there was a big right hand afterwards that dropped him.

00:34:18.000 I just think he was out of his league.

00:34:20.000 Way, way out of his league.

00:34:22.000 Not that he took a dive, but almost to the point of, like, he knew that that fight was not going any way the way that he thought it was.

00:34:28.000 He was so smiley and relaxed.

00:34:31.000 It was kind of funny.

00:34:32.000 You know, he just sort of walked the dude down.

00:34:35.000 He had a big ol' smile on his face.

00:34:36.000 He's like, look at him smiling.

00:34:37.000 When was the last time he saw...

00:34:38.000 And he's so much bigger than this kid.

00:34:41.000 Yeah, he's fighting like it's a joke.

00:34:43.000 Like, look at him.

00:34:44.000 He's so much bigger than this kid. 0.99

00:34:46.000 What's really funny is, if they let this kid kick, he would fuck Floyd up. 0.99

00:34:50.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:34:51.000 But Floyd may look so dominant.

00:34:52.000 I didn't even know on that part.

00:34:53.000 But then again, that kid, his kicks.

00:34:56.000 That kid would have kicked Floyd's legs out from under him in seconds. 0.99

00:34:59.000 Oh, you went too far there.

00:35:02.000 See, he got up right there.

00:35:04.000 Boom.

00:35:04.000 See, he hit him with the left hook and he stumbled.

00:35:07.000 And then he hit him with the right hand behind it.

00:35:09.000 And I just think he's too little.

00:35:11.000 He's just a...

00:35:12.000 He's a very small guy.

00:35:14.000 And for him...

00:35:15.000 I mean, and Floyd's not a big guy.

00:35:17.000 This kid is tiny.

00:35:18.000 I mean...

00:35:19.000 I think he's fought as light as 121 pounds, and I think sometimes he fights at like 126. Yeah, I think you can see right there.

00:35:27.000 Right there.

00:35:28.000 Sometimes in a fight, a lot of times in a fight, the whole issue is you get hit with that and you're fighting and somebody taps you with a certain punch.

00:35:36.000 Your brain, you'll be surprised how fast it works, you know, and all the things that go through that mind.

00:35:41.000 Right there, boom.

00:35:42.000 Yes, that was it.

00:35:44.000 And I think at that moment right there, he just knew going in, you could feel, just when somebody hits you on the arm or the shoulder, you know, how much power they have.

00:35:53.000 And I think he was trying to, after that, he knew that was going to be a long night.

00:35:58.000 It's so crazy they paid him $9 million for this.

00:36:01.000 It must be nice. 1.00

00:36:04.000 Yeah, I mean, fuck. 0.99

00:36:06.000 There was a lot of people I seen going... 0.99

00:36:10.000 He deserves to give some of these prospects a chance now.

00:36:13.000 He should be fighting these guys instead of doing this.

00:36:15.000 These guys ain't boxers, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:36:18.000 And my take on that also is the man went 49-50-0.

00:36:22.000 He fought almost everybody in the sport.

00:36:24.000 Even if you want to say that they were past their prime, some of them may have been a little bit.

00:36:29.000 He still went in there and dominated them and beat them.

00:36:32.000 This guy, in my opinion, if he wanted to fight defensive backs from the NFL... He has all the right in the world.

00:36:38.000 I don't think that he owes the sport anything.

00:36:40.000 I think actually it's the other way around.

00:36:42.000 The amount of money that he has brought to the sport, the attention that he brought to it.

00:36:46.000 So if he wants to go around and do these side shows, let him.

00:36:50.000 I mean, what do you want him to do?

00:36:51.000 Fight prospects until he's 51 years old?

00:36:53.000 I couldn't agree more.

00:36:54.000 I couldn't agree more.

00:36:55.000 It's crazy, the idea that they want to see him sacrificed. 0.80

00:36:58.000 They want to see him get beat. 0.93

00:37:00.000 That's what they want.

00:37:01.000 They want to see him finally fight someone who's younger and faster and hungrier, who's more active.

00:37:06.000 And what will happen is that he will lose.

00:37:08.000 And I think Mayweather is smarter than that.

00:37:10.000 He wants to go out and keep that, his status, and the...

00:37:15.000 The record that he built up and that resume that he has and go out like that.

00:37:20.000 Yeah.

00:37:21.000 Well, they're talking about him fighting Khabib Nurmagomedov, who's the UFC 155-pound champion.

00:37:25.000 But Khabib's not really a boxer.

00:37:27.000 I just want to say, but boxing rules?

00:37:29.000 Yeah.

00:37:29.000 Oh, that would be a...

00:37:31.000 Yeah.

00:37:31.000 Same thing.

00:37:32.000 Khabib's a takedown ground type guy.

00:37:34.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:37:35.000 It would be the same kind of fight as the Conor fight.

00:37:37.000 The only difference is I don't think Khabib would get as tired as Conor would.

00:37:40.000 I don't think...

00:37:42.000 He's definitely got better endurance.

00:37:45.000 I think one of the only few in there right now that would be a good fight would be one of the Diaz brothers, as far as striking.

00:37:51.000 That would be interesting.

00:37:52.000 But he would box their face off.

00:37:54.000 I still think that he would win that, but I'm just saying as far as stand up and letting the hands go, I think those are one of the two better ones in the MMA. Yeah, I mean, that guy's got all the right in the world to just keep fighting freak shows.

00:38:08.000 Have fun, man.

00:38:10.000 You're playing with her.

00:38:11.000 The only thing is, if Father of Time shows up, he's getting to that age where you might get one of them guys.

00:38:18.000 If he's having fun, do it.

00:38:20.000 But if you go and get beat by one of them guys, that could change the whole outlook of a career.

00:38:24.000 It's interesting how guys who are really good defensively, they're not just really good longer because they have such good technique, but also they've taken less damage during their career so that they're more durable as they get older as well.

00:38:37.000 You definitely saw that with Bernard.

00:38:39.000 Bernard, up until the Joe Smith fight, Joe Smith was the first guy to really put it on him like that and knock him out of the ring. 0.99

00:38:45.000 It was hard to see that they had that ring set up too where he fell and landed on his fucking head. 0.99

00:38:51.000 Jesus Christ! 0.99

00:38:52.000 You know, I don't know if there was so much to ring.

00:38:55.000 I just think it was an awkward way that he went out of them ropes in a way.

00:38:58.000 Because he got hurt by that punch.

00:39:00.000 And the legs buckled.

00:39:02.000 And when the legs buckle like that, they could put him in that awkward position for him to slide out. 0.99

00:39:08.000 Yeah, his ass was headed out and then he got clipped again and went right through. 0.93

00:39:11.000 But I mean, it just sucks that there's nothing to protect the fighters if they fall out like that. 0.99

00:39:17.000 There's no padding.

00:39:18.000 There's no tables.

00:39:19.000 No nothing.

00:39:19.000 Nothing to break your fall.

00:39:20.000 No one there for it.

00:39:21.000 You just got to hope one of the ringside judges or commentators are there too.

00:39:26.000 That's crazy.

00:39:27.000 And you got guys that are 80 years old trying to push a 200-pound man back in the ring.

00:39:32.000 Yeah, they're not going to get clipped like that and wind up somebody falling on them.

00:39:36.000 But Bernard was able to keep his skill very late in life.

00:39:39.000 I mean, deep into his 40s, almost to 50 years old, was still world-class, which is really crazy.

00:39:46.000 That is.

00:39:47.000 You got a handful of guys out there that could do that.

00:39:50.000 And to be honest, you know, but he kept himself in good shape in between fights.

00:39:54.000 Yeah.

00:39:54.000 And he did what he was supposed to do.

00:39:56.000 And some guys, you know, you get some guys out there.

00:39:59.000 A good friend of mine, my trainer, Robert Garcia, retired at 29. Yeah.

00:40:03.000 A Youngstown guy, Mancini, retired young and came back a couple years later, but it was only for one fight.

00:40:10.000 Who did Mancini come back against?

00:40:13.000 Oh, that's right.

00:40:13.000 Greg Haugen.

00:40:14.000 That's right.

00:40:15.000 I forgot about that fight.

00:40:17.000 Some guys, they go in and do it, and it's fun, and then it becomes a career and job and financial security.

00:40:26.000 You know, the way a lot of fighters look at it.

00:40:28.000 And then you get some guys like Floyd, Manny Pacquiao, Bernard Hopkins, who just love the sport that much.

00:40:36.000 They don't know anything else outside of it.

00:40:40.000 What was it like fighting Bernard?

00:40:43.000 You know, and I don't know if this is the stage I want to...

00:40:48.000 Fighting Bernard was totally different than what I expected.

00:40:53.000 What did you expect?

00:40:54.000 I expect him to be tricky.

00:40:56.000 And sneaky and just very crafty and obviously experienced.

00:41:02.000 I did jump up two weight classes to take that fight.

00:41:08.000 But at the same time, that was not an 80% Kelly Pavlik.

00:41:14.000 And this is true, and this is documented.

00:41:17.000 I have it on my phone, and I was going to actually bring that out.

00:41:20.000 But that fight, I sparred, you know, three times for that, maybe four.

00:41:24.000 The fourth time was with an arm brace, and then it went into it.

00:41:27.000 And I never said anything because I'm the type of person I don't want to have people think that I was making excuses.

00:41:32.000 I love Bernard, and I think he's one of the greatest of all time, greatest middleweights.

00:41:38.000 But that was not that night.

00:41:40.000 You know, I came down.

00:41:41.000 What's wrong?

00:41:42.000 What was wrong?

00:41:42.000 I had bronchitis.

00:41:43.000 I was sick.

00:41:44.000 I was running a temp, actually, in the locker room.

00:41:46.000 We had to go through with the commission.

00:41:49.000 We almost took the inhaler for it.

00:41:51.000 Then we found out through the commission that you cannot take that because it's steroid.

00:41:55.000 So we had to go to the nasal, or not nasal, the oral pill.

00:42:01.000 We had it in the locker room.

00:42:03.000 I don't know if you ever heard of a guy, Thomas Hauser.

00:42:05.000 He writes, he used to write for New York Times.

00:42:07.000 He does a lot of big boxing books.

00:42:09.000 He was in there and Hauser don't, he's not one side with anybody.

00:42:14.000 He writes what he knows, what he sees, and that's the truth.

00:42:18.000 And he was in there when the commission came in.

00:42:20.000 They were going through my prescription, you know, they were taking the temperature, giving me the exam.

00:42:27.000 And that's what happened.

00:42:28.000 It was a lethargic fight with Of all people.

00:42:32.000 What was wrong with your arm?

00:42:33.000 I had bursitis.

00:42:36.000 Bursitis in your elbow?

00:42:38.000 And that came into an issue.

00:42:38.000 Yeah.

00:42:40.000 And we sparred.

00:42:41.000 Like I said, it was a handful.

00:42:42.000 It might have been more than three or four, but it wasn't a lot.

00:42:44.000 Because usually in training camp, you do three days a week for about eight-week camp for about six and a half weeks.

00:42:51.000 And it was because of your elbow that you couldn't spar?

00:42:53.000 Yeah.

00:42:54.000 Because you didn't want to keep hitting it.

00:42:55.000 Then I didn't like, just the way I am, I didn't like having a brace on it or nothing.

00:43:00.000 So that was an issue.

00:43:01.000 And there was a lot of things that sometimes if you could go back and you wish you could do it over again, but there was a lot of other things going on why we didn't postpone the fight.

00:43:11.000 First of all, it was sold out and the Youngstown people bought all the tickets.

00:43:17.000 We had the issue with the Paul Williams fight that it fell through.

00:43:21.000 So I just came off fighting Gary Lockett, who was really not a well-known name, a household name.

00:43:29.000 So if I would have postponed that fight, the backlash on that would have been bad.

00:43:35.000 Really bad.

00:43:36.000 It was more the ego thing, I think, and worried about what everybody was going to think.

00:43:41.000 Taking nothing away at all from, and that's where I wanted to tap into, taking nothing away from Bernard Hopkins.

00:43:48.000 Unfortunately, against A guy like Bernard Hopkins that had to have that happen to me is what sucks.

00:43:55.000 And he was a tremendous fighter.

00:43:57.000 I mean, he did things in there.

00:43:58.000 A lot of times I've seen him making moves and I knew what he was doing and I just couldn't pull the trigger on it.

00:44:04.000 And he was fast and he was strong.

00:44:06.000 And then there was times that He just did some crafty things also that got to me, and his body work in that fight slowed me down a lot.

00:44:14.000 But it was just one of them fights where I could honestly say that that was not an 80% Kelly Palak.

00:44:20.000 And I could be honest and say if I was 100%, I don't know if I would have won that fight.

00:44:25.000 And I'll be honest about it.

00:44:26.000 I'm not going to be the guy that comes here and says, well, if I was 100%, I would have knocked him out.

00:44:31.000 No, it's Bernard Hopkins.

00:44:33.000 When you think about your legacy and you think about looking back at your career, those kind of fights where you had to take it when you were compromised, how do those factor in to you? 0.99

00:44:43.000 Do those fuck with your head? 0.99

00:44:44.000 Mm-hmm. 1.00

00:44:45.000 Yeah.

00:44:46.000 Not in a real bad way.

00:44:48.000 Right, but enough where you're like, ah, if I was 100%.

00:44:50.000 Yeah, you know, I got invited to the International Boxing Hall of Fame over the summer, and it was cool as hell to be there.

00:44:56.000 And you start seeing the inductees and everything, and you start breaking down your career.

00:45:01.000 Like, am I able to qualify for this, you know?

00:45:05.000 And is so-and-so going to get pissed off who didn't get in because I got in?

00:45:09.000 And I look at it, and I break it down a couple ways.

00:45:12.000 I say...

00:45:13.000 40-2 with 34 knockouts is a hell of a record.

00:45:16.000 You know, I held the belts for over three years.

00:45:20.000 I beat a handful of guys that were legit when I beat them. 0.99

00:45:25.000 And then I look at the fight, though, I fought Bernard Hopkins, and I got my ass whipped in that fight. 0.98

00:45:31.000 And there's no other way of putting it, you know, it's the truth. 0.94

00:45:33.000 So how much did that damage, you know, people remembering that?

00:45:38.000 Nobody looks at the fact of the two-way class jump.

00:45:40.000 And then coming back down and defending against a very game Antonio Rubio.

00:45:45.000 And then, of course, the Martinez fight, which a lot of people, and it was documented on HBO with the commentators, you know, the weight issue in that fight.

00:45:55.000 What was the weight issue in that fight?

00:45:57.000 How we had to get down.

00:45:58.000 That was my last fight at middleweight.

00:46:00.000 Trying to cut the weight.

00:46:01.000 I was 29 at the time.

00:46:03.000 And another great fighter that happened.

00:46:05.000 It was tough with the weight.

00:46:07.000 I really can't use that as an excuse, though, because I don't know.

00:46:10.000 But I know I was doing good.

00:46:11.000 In the ninth round, I did hit a wall.

00:46:12.000 A lot of people tried to use the cut.

00:46:14.000 And I think even without the cut...

00:46:16.000 The same result would have happened, though.

00:46:18.000 You know, he would have boxed my ears off the last four rounds.

00:46:21.000 It was just one of them things that there's nothing you could do.

00:46:24.000 So when I sum up my career, I look at those fights, and I know personally that they could have been different.

00:46:32.000 But at the same time, I'm very happy and content with the way my career went.

00:46:37.000 I was 40-2.

00:46:38.000 I won my last four fights before I retired, so I went out winning.

00:46:44.000 And I was done with the sport.

00:46:46.000 I truly was.

00:46:48.000 And so I think right now I'm kind of content and happy with my career.

00:46:52.000 Of course, I think anybody says it could have been better and I wish it was better.

00:46:56.000 Yeah, maybe a little bit, but I'm not going to ever beat myself up over it.

00:47:00.000 Well, it's just one of those things where when you look back and you think of all the great things that you did accomplish, then you realize that you retired at 30. Yeah.

00:47:10.000 So much room there.

00:47:13.000 30 is so young.

00:47:15.000 You're in your athletic prime.

00:47:16.000 I think they say 32 for a professional fighter they consider most athletic primes at 32. It was, but I look back on it again, the 42 fights.

00:47:26.000 That's a lot of fights.

00:47:28.000 Plus, I started when I was 9. I had a little over 100 amateur fights.

00:47:33.000 There was a lot with that.

00:47:34.000 I mean, for a while, well before I retired, I was throwing it around, you know, retiring.

00:47:39.000 I was one of them guys that just, I liked it and I loved it, but I also sometimes got tired of it.

00:47:45.000 You know, I'm a very simple guy and I don't care about the glam or the fame or any of that.

00:47:55.000 I truly don't.

00:47:56.000 You know, like even now with my podcast and what I'm doing With some of these other adventures, it's because I got bored and I'm on to have fun.

00:48:03.000 You know what I mean?

00:48:03.000 Right.

00:48:04.000 And keep myself busy.

00:48:06.000 And I've been fortunate to have what I have to be able to do all this on my own, you know, and go out there and be around everybody.

00:48:15.000 But yeah, so when I was fighting, you know, there was a lot of rumors around of the retirement, this, that.

00:48:20.000 And I think the final icing on the cake was we were supposed to fight Andre Ward.

00:48:25.000 And that's when Andre Ward ended up getting a shoulder surgery.

00:48:29.000 And that fight fell through.

00:48:30.000 And I've been out in California training or in Oxnard training for almost a year, which most fighters leave at the beginning of their career.

00:48:38.000 You know, when they don't have a family, when they're not making the money, that's their opportunity to try and go and make money.

00:48:43.000 Not when you're 12 years into it, you know.

00:48:46.000 And so I went out there and that kind of took a little bit...

00:48:50.000 From here, as far as the sport, even though I loved it and it was great training with Robert Garcia, I learned so much that I didn't think I could learn at that point in my career.

00:49:00.000 And when that Andre Ward fight fell through, I was done.

00:49:04.000 I mean, I rolled over, I never forget, I rolled over and told my wife, I said, I think I'm done.

00:49:09.000 She goes, what are you talking about?

00:49:11.000 I said, I think I'm retiring.

00:49:13.000 She started crying tears of joy because she wanted me to be done even before that.

00:49:18.000 She don't know the sport or what prime age is or not.

00:49:22.000 I hung them up.

00:49:24.000 Over the years, as we talked earlier, hearing her, I would get the itch.

00:49:29.000 That could have been just going to the gym and doing a round on the pads.

00:49:33.000 I just never wanted to keep doing it.

00:49:36.000 My health, believe it or not, is more important than We're good to go.

00:50:07.000 And it's dangerous.

00:50:09.000 Unfortunately, we've seen, and you know, when we're talking about this with me getting the itch earlier, there's a lot of things I take into consideration.

00:50:17.000 Like, I'm really into it, and I'm really debating on it, and I'm hitting the gym working boxing.

00:50:23.000 Then I see things like this Adonis-Stevenson situation, you know?

00:50:27.000 And those are the things where I say, I've got to sit back and talk.

00:50:30.000 Explain to people what happened.

00:50:31.000 He got hit.

00:50:32.000 It was a good fight.

00:50:33.000 He's been fighting for years now.

00:50:35.000 One of the most feared fighters also in boxing.

00:50:38.000 And he fought the guy we were talking about earlier.

00:50:39.000 Yeah.

00:50:40.000 I can't pronounce his name.

00:50:42.000 I don't want to chop it up.

00:50:44.000 Pull up the Russian gentleman's name.

00:50:47.000 There's a way to say it.

00:50:51.000 Better be...

00:50:51.000 It's...

00:50:53.000 I see him all the time too.

00:50:57.000 Adonis Stevenson. 0.99

00:51:01.000 Russian cats have some crazy ass names, man. 0.99

00:51:04.000 I know it's hard. 1.00

00:51:04.000 They do. 1.00

00:51:05.000 You know, me being a guy involved in a sport and talking about it all the time too, how hard it is for me to get it down.

00:51:12.000 There's so many badass Russians these days.

00:51:14.000 Okay.

00:51:16.000 It's G-V-O-Z-D-Y-K, but it's Vosdik. 1.00

00:51:22.000 You don't pronounce the G. Vosdik. 0.52

00:51:25.000 He's a beast too, man.

00:51:26.000 He is. 1.00

00:51:27.000 He's a beast.

00:51:28.000 So in that fight, Again, Adonis Stevenson is a brutal puncher. 0.51

00:51:33.000 Devastating knockout puncher.

00:51:35.000 He's been fighting all these years now, also.

00:51:37.000 And this is the part that's scary about it.

00:51:39.000 He's 41, right?

00:51:39.000 Isn't he 41?

00:51:40.000 Yes, and that's another situation.

00:51:43.000 Factor.

00:51:44.000 Factor where you might want to say, hey, I'm done.

00:51:46.000 Right.

00:51:47.000 You know, even before this happened.

00:51:48.000 Unfortunately, I had to get to this point.

00:51:50.000 But he's in there and it's a fairly decent fight from what I was watching.

00:51:54.000 And next thing you know, he goes down, fights over.

00:51:58.000 He dropped Vosnik at some point in the fight.

00:52:01.000 He did.

00:52:02.000 Yeah.

00:52:02.000 And next thing you know, he ends up in a coma, you know, fighting for his life.

00:52:07.000 The sport...

00:52:09.000 You never know.

00:52:10.000 That's the scary thing about it.

00:52:11.000 You could get injured two weeks before the fight in sparring and have a little bleed that you would never know.

00:52:16.000 No signs of it.

00:52:18.000 And then the next thing, you're in a coma and dead.

00:52:22.000 Well, I know that that really fucked up Roy Jones Jr. when Jerry McClellan, who was his arch rival.

00:52:28.000 This was the guy that they thought one day he was going to fight.

00:52:30.000 When McClellan was killing it at light heavyweight and Roy was 168-pound champion. 0.99

00:52:35.000 And then, you know, to see McClellan now, you know, people who don't remember, man, McClellan was a fucking destroyer. 0.99

00:52:41.000 He was so goddamn scary and so good. 0.99

00:52:45.000 And he hit so hard. 0.98

00:52:46.000 And he was the guy that, you know, he's a cronk fighter, you know, in the vein of Tommy Hearns and all those other great cronk fighters.

00:52:54.000 And people looked at him like, man, one day that's going to be the fight.

00:52:57.000 Him and Roy Jones Jr. It's almost like it was inevitable.

00:52:59.000 It was like Canelo and Triple G or something.

00:53:02.000 I know, because everybody does the fantasy matchups, and they ask me if Pavlik versus McKellum.

00:53:06.000 I'm going, what are you guys trying to do to me?

00:53:07.000 I don't want that fight.

00:53:09.000 You know what I mean?

00:53:09.000 Because he did hit that hard.

00:53:10.000 He was a brutal guy.

00:53:12.000 Yeah, and then to see him when he fought Nigel Benn, same situation, laps into that coma.

00:53:18.000 We don't know how Adonis Stevenson is going to come out of this, but a lot of times when a guy does have a traumatic brain injury like that, they're never the same again.

00:53:28.000 That's what I'm saying.

00:53:29.000 That could have been something two weeks earlier that was never detected or signs of it.

00:53:34.000 So it's scary.

00:53:36.000 It is.

00:53:37.000 So you take that into consideration, but you also have that itch.

00:53:40.000 Yeah.

00:53:41.000 And again, I'm 36. It's something that, again, it's going to be a process of sitting down and discussing.

00:53:49.000 So would you say you're like 60% considering fighting again?

00:53:54.000 Maybe a little more right now.

00:53:57.000 I know.

00:54:01.000 Do you ever go back and watch highlight reels and then you start shadowboxing and getting itchy and really start thinking about it?

00:54:08.000 And it's weird because I'm in my gym and there's people lifting weights and I'm in the back.

00:54:12.000 I got a couple bags back there and you start hearing the bags popping and everybody, they're not used to seeing it.

00:54:18.000 So everybody gets curious and they come back and you see them peeking around the corner and watching me hit the bag and Then I get a little embarrassed.

00:54:24.000 I'm like, alright, you know what?

00:54:25.000 I'm going to chill with it right now.

00:54:27.000 So, yeah, it's fun.

00:54:29.000 It is.

00:54:30.000 It's a thought, again, and we'll see.

00:54:33.000 But a lot of that plays in my mind because the one thing is it becomes very selfish, too, at a point.

00:54:40.000 I got two young kids at home.

00:54:42.000 You know, that's going to be 13 and 10. They're involved in sports and a lot of activities.

00:54:47.000 They love me being around for it.

00:54:49.000 And it don't take me having to fight a Usyk. 1.00

00:54:52.000 Right.

00:54:53.000 For something to happen.

00:54:54.000 Right.

00:54:54.000 You know what I mean?

00:54:56.000 But we'll toss it around and we'll see how that goes.

00:55:00.000 Yeah.

00:55:01.000 That's a big consideration.

00:55:03.000 There's a lot of things to factor in on that.

00:55:05.000 Well, especially because you are busy now.

00:55:07.000 So, what made you decide to do a podcast?

00:55:11.000 Actually, I was excited when I heard you were doing that.

00:55:13.000 I was like, all right.

00:55:14.000 Let's get into the podcast world.

00:55:16.000 I am.

00:55:17.000 I'm looking.

00:55:17.000 I hear some of these guys commentating, and I say, I think I could do that.

00:55:21.000 Yeah, you could do that.

00:55:22.000 After listening.

00:55:23.000 And the podcast, we're kind of throwing it around.

00:55:27.000 Like I said, I got a handful of investments going on, and I pick and choose on what I want to do.

00:55:32.000 And the podcast started off...

00:55:34.000 Hey, let's have fun.

00:55:36.000 Let's throw this podcast on.

00:55:37.000 We'll get some cheap equipment.

00:55:39.000 We got a lot of followers on social media, so we'll do the social media live, and then we'll also hook it to the YouTube.

00:55:46.000 And we were doing it, and it started off for a little while there, but no advertisement.

00:55:50.000 It was kind of lonely.

00:55:53.000 If you feel like I'm talking into a mic and nobody's there.

00:55:58.000 And then it started taking...

00:55:59.000 It's doing fairly well right now, too.

00:56:01.000 How many downloads are you getting?

00:56:03.000 Man, right now, well, the social media is the biggest.

00:56:06.000 We end up hitting, it reaches out after the first episode.

00:56:10.000 You got 2,000 people reached and maybe like 400 views.

00:56:16.000 And then as the days go on and the shares go on, you start seeing it reaches out to over like 20-some thousand people.

00:56:21.000 And then you see, you know, like 8,000 views.

00:56:25.000 And that's on social media.

00:56:28.000 YouTube is the one I'm working for, you know, really trying to push.

00:56:31.000 And right now, sometimes we get up 113 views on there and And sometimes I don't even want to mention how many views are on it.

00:56:38.000 So again, it's a process with that also.

00:56:40.000 I'm starting to learn that.

00:56:40.000 I know that.

00:56:42.000 It's about consistency.

00:56:44.000 That's the most important thing.

00:56:45.000 But I get out to these fights and people know it, you know, who don't comment on a show because we do it where it's live.

00:56:52.000 The format of it is to have everybody involved because they like that.

00:56:55.000 They get asked questions and we're pretty much faces on the phone reading the questions and answering it.

00:57:00.000 And I think they like that.

00:57:01.000 And it actually is kind of funny because we'll get some great guests on there.

00:57:04.000 We had TJ Dillashaw.

00:57:05.000 We had Mikey Garcia, Terrence Crawford on.

00:57:09.000 I think you could bring back Joe Lewis and put him on there.

00:57:12.000 And people don't care about that.

00:57:14.000 They want their questions answered through the social media or through YouTube.

00:57:19.000 And they kind of don't interact with the guests that you have on.

00:57:22.000 So it's weird.

00:57:23.000 I think the format, I like the format of it.

00:57:26.000 But at the same time, I wish people would be more involved with the...

00:57:29.000 Guests that we have on.

00:57:31.000 But for the most part, it's fun.

00:57:33.000 It's different.

00:57:33.000 That kind of format is, well, boxing fans in particular, well, I should say, just combat sports fans in particular, they love to comment on things, love to get in on it.

00:57:44.000 I mean, whenever there's a big fight, social media just lights up, both with boxing and with MMA. And the ability to go back and forth with a guy like you and get your questions answered and stuff like that has got to be huge.

00:57:56.000 Yep, and we tap in.

00:57:57.000 We've had Matt Brown on, so we tap into the UFC. I personally don't want to because I don't want to make nobody mad.

00:58:03.000 I don't know enough.

00:58:04.000 I watch it.

00:58:05.000 You're not going to make anybody mad.

00:58:06.000 I know.

00:58:07.000 I'm saying to some of the fans.

00:58:08.000 I watch it.

00:58:09.000 I enjoy it.

00:58:10.000 But now, the co-host, James Dominguez, he's really big into that.

00:58:14.000 And he was the one who actually introduced me to Matt Brown.

00:58:18.000 So he knows.

00:58:19.000 So on that show, that's where we work hand-in-hand together.

00:58:21.000 He's able to do more of the questions and...

00:58:24.000 I think it's fun when boxers don't know about MMA and they ask wonky questions.

00:58:28.000 I know.

00:58:28.000 Yeah.

00:58:29.000 That's how I feel, you know, vice versa.

00:58:31.000 I'm sure, man.

00:58:32.000 I'm sure.

00:58:33.000 Like, when a big fight goes down, do you watch it and stream live?

00:58:41.000 We do.

00:58:42.000 Well, we tried.

00:58:43.000 We actually tried on that.

00:58:45.000 That's a great idea for someone like you.

00:58:47.000 We do a thing called the Fight Companion.

00:58:49.000 We do it all the time where there's a UFC fight.

00:58:51.000 We'll put it up on that screen. 0.75

00:58:52.000 We'll have a bunch of guys in here and we'll watch the fights and talk shit while the fights are going on and people play it alongside the commentary.

00:59:00.000 So it's like they're watching the fights with us. 0.52

00:59:02.000 Yeah.

00:59:03.000 That's an idea.

00:59:03.000 Thank you.

00:59:04.000 It's a great idea, yeah.

00:59:05.000 It absolutely is.

00:59:06.000 And that's the whole thing.

00:59:07.000 We're just looking for a different...

00:59:08.000 Plus, if you go into the comments and start having people ask questions, like, who do you think won that round?

00:59:14.000 Then you go, this is why I think Triple G won the round.

00:59:18.000 This is why Canelo lost the round.

00:59:20.000 Or this is why you could make an argument that Canelo won it.

00:59:23.000 That kind of stuff.

00:59:24.000 That kind of interaction stuff.

00:59:26.000 It does, and the fans love that.

00:59:27.000 They love it.

00:59:27.000 Yep, they love that.

00:59:29.000 And that's what we're, you know, looking at different ideas, too, because you never stop learning.

00:59:34.000 You can never stop, you know, expanding and doing things like that.

00:59:37.000 So it's good, you know, we get places, we get to these big fights, and people notice the show.

00:59:43.000 You know, hey, I love your show.

00:59:45.000 Even if they don't, they're saying that to me, you know.

00:59:48.000 Yeah, it was...

00:59:49.000 Even if they don't, they're saying that to me.

00:59:50.000 Yeah, you're saying that.

00:59:51.000 That's very, that's keen insight.

00:59:53.000 Yeah, you know, and it was cool, actually.

00:59:55.000 What was that?

00:59:56.000 The first Triple G Canelo fight.

00:59:58.000 You know, when I retired, I, again, stayed away from boxing.

01:00:02.000 I went there and I was all about promoting my podcast.

01:00:07.000 And it was kind of cool.

01:00:08.000 I walked in there and...

01:00:10.000 Everybody went crazy in the media room, and I thought I was fighting again.

01:00:13.000 After five years of being retired, I thought I was fighting.

01:00:16.000 I mean, they were just asking, and I was trying to squeeze stuff in and tell them what I was doing.

01:00:21.000 And then it was cool also because Bernard Hopkins was there, and I was already a year into the powerlifting.

01:00:27.000 I was still about 230. And he came up and gave me a big hug.

01:00:31.000 And it was awesome to be able to, after a fight, and being able to go in there with him to see how nice he was and how humble he was after that.

01:00:42.000 He could have been cocky.

01:00:43.000 He could have walked past me and not said hi or recognized me at all.

01:00:48.000 And he just really brought me in.

01:00:51.000 That's cool.

01:00:52.000 What did he say to you after the fight? 0.59

01:00:54.000 Did he tell you you need to box like a black guy? 1.00

01:00:56.000 I think he did. 0.90

01:00:57.000 You know, after that fight...

01:00:59.000 He could have told me everything he wanted in the road.

01:01:01.000 He could have sat down for an hour with me, and I wouldn't have remembered what he said.

01:01:04.000 I was, you know, everybody's seen the fight, so I need not to say much more on that.

01:01:09.000 But a little bit of it, because my trainer was there, it was, you know, keep your head up.

01:01:15.000 You're a hell of a fighter, you know, and, you know, I'm experienced, and go back, go back to the drawing board, don't get too down on this, and come back strong.

01:01:23.000 He goes, you're a champ, and that was what he said.

01:01:25.000 Yeah, I remember something where he said that you needed to learn how to fight like a black guy.

01:01:28.000 Yeah, I didn't hear that. 0.79

01:01:29.000 I truly didn't.

01:01:31.000 And maybe he might have said that in an interview after with somebody, and that's what people thought, but I know he didn't say it in a fight.

01:01:37.000 Yeah, that was...

01:01:37.000 Right.

01:01:40.000 It was, you know, one of his best performances.

01:01:43.000 I mean, he had so many great performances late in his career, the Tito Trinidad fight in particular, because nobody thought he was going to win that fight.

01:01:50.000 He was a big underdog in that fight.

01:01:52.000 Trinidad was the up-and-coming, rising Puerto Rican superstar, was fucking everybody up, and Bernard put on a show. 0.99

01:01:58.000 I thought, you know, I actually had Hopkins in that fight, though, because he was just bigger.

01:02:02.000 You know, the big guy, middleweight.

01:02:04.000 Trinidad's moving up, and...

01:02:06.000 There was a lot of good middleweights I didn't think Trinidad was going to be. 0.76

01:02:09.000 I think Trinidad was an amazing fighter, but I think his great days were at 147. Yeah, I agree.

01:02:15.000 Yeah, I was...

01:02:16.000 I mean, he was a big puncher, though.

01:02:18.000 I mean, he was a big puncher, even up into light heavyweight.

01:02:21.000 I mean, even into...

01:02:22.000 Middleweight. 0.60

01:02:23.000 But he was...

01:02:23.000 Middleweight.

01:02:25.000 His style was almost tailor-made for Bernard.

01:02:28.000 Bernard was so clever and such a good counter fighter and so good defensively.

01:02:33.000 He didn't really open up.

01:02:34.000 He didn't leave many openings.

01:02:36.000 That goes back to the footwork that we were talking about.

01:02:38.000 You notice when he fought that fight, even when he fought me, but Trinidad and other guys...

01:02:43.000 When they go to throw a punch, he'd take that one step in and kind of suffocate the punch, especially if it was a straight right hand.

01:02:49.000 Or then he would take that step and he would throw that overhand right and catch you with it.

01:02:54.000 So he was really good at just putting that foot, not moving around much, putting it in the right spot to hit you and counter you.

01:03:01.000 And he did that.

01:03:02.000 Trinidad was probably one of the best technically sound fighters ever, if you actually watch him, you know, the way he threw his punches.

01:03:08.000 He never made mistakes on that part of it.

01:03:11.000 But I think he needed a little bit more, changed it up a little different with Bernard Hopkins in order to have even made that fight kind of close.

01:03:18.000 One of the most ridiculous Trinidad fights ever. 1.00

01:03:20.000 Remember when we fought Ricardo Mayorga and Mayorga let him punch him in the face? 0.72

01:03:23.000 Yeah.

01:03:23.000 He just put his hands down.

01:03:24.000 Go ahead.

01:03:25.000 And Trinidad teed off. 0.51

01:03:26.000 And then he hit him with two left hooks on the chin. 1.00

01:03:29.000 My girl was crazy. 0.99

01:03:30.000 He was so crazy. 0.98

01:03:31.000 Yeah, that was a crazy dude. 1.00

01:03:32.000 He would smoke cigarettes in between rounds and shit. 1.00

01:03:34.000 I don't even know if I can believe that. 0.99

01:03:36.000 I don't know if that was a show.

01:03:37.000 He did that when the cameras were on.

01:03:39.000 He was able to go a handful of rounds without getting tired.

01:03:39.000 Right.

01:03:42.000 Yeah.

01:03:42.000 I know if you smoke a cigarette, man, that's going to take the wind out of you.

01:03:46.000 Yeah, but I know fighters that smoke. 1.00

01:03:49.000 Yeah.

01:03:50.000 Yeah, Joe Schilling, who's a world-class kickboxer, top of the food chain, world champion kickboxer, smoked cigarettes.

01:03:56.000 Whoa. 1.00

01:03:57.000 Crazy fucker. 1.00

01:03:58.000 I chewed most of my career. 1.00

01:04:00.000 That's different though, right?

01:04:01.000 It is.

01:04:02.000 You know, nicotine restricts the oxygen in the blood and it's not good for boxers or anybody lifting weights.

01:04:08.000 Nicotine does?

01:04:09.000 Like regular, like chewing tobacco restricts the oxygen?

01:04:11.000 Oh yeah, it restricts the oxygen in the blood.

01:04:14.000 I didn't know that.

01:04:14.000 Yeah, but it's...

01:04:15.000 Can you pull it up?

01:04:16.000 Just make sure.

01:04:17.000 It's a stimulant, though.

01:04:19.000 You know, it's actually like for your brain.

01:04:21.000 People say the—a lot of folks—I actually bought some—I never tried it, but I bought some nicotine gum to try to see if I would write on it, like if it would help me writing.

01:04:30.000 Because apparently it works as a nootropic, as a cognitive enhancer.

01:04:34.000 Nicotine is actually an effective cognitive enhancer.

01:04:36.000 I didn't know that.

01:04:37.000 Maybe how much you take of it, the quantity.

01:04:40.000 Yeah, I don't know.

01:04:41.000 I mean, I didn't know that it affects your—because it's a stimulant.

01:04:45.000 I didn't know that it restricts the oxygen in your blood.

01:04:47.000 That's pretty neat.

01:04:57.000 But to me, it was never...

01:04:58.000 I didn't chew the day of the fight.

01:04:59.000 Right.

01:05:00.000 And I believe after so many hours, six to eight or ten hours, it's out.

01:05:04.000 So...

01:05:05.000 But either or, it didn't affect me.

01:05:06.000 That stuff's so nasty.

01:05:07.000 Because I was able to run, you know, three miles in 19 minutes, 19-some minutes, and five miles in 30 minutes.

01:05:14.000 And...

01:05:15.000 And I was chewing, so it never really affected me.

01:05:18.000 Well, maybe it did, but just you were in such good shape.

01:05:21.000 Good shape.

01:05:21.000 Barely.

01:05:22.000 No, smoking on the other hand, lungs, filling them, it is horrible.

01:05:27.000 But after I retired, and the itch wasn't there for like a year, I wanted to give the gums a break.

01:05:33.000 And I decided, well, you know what, I'll smoke.

01:05:36.000 And I quit smoking shortly.

01:05:37.000 You started smoking cigarettes after you retired?

01:05:40.000 Yeah.

01:05:40.000 Jesus Christ.

01:05:41.000 Well, I didn't want to start them when I was fighting. 1.00

01:05:43.000 Who fuck starts at 30? 0.99

01:05:45.000 I was switching out because it was nicotine. 1.00

01:05:47.000 Here it is.

01:05:48.000 Smoke tobacco, smokeless tobacco, and health risks.

01:05:52.000 The amount of nicotine the bloodstream after using smokeless tobacco may be higher than that of a cigarette smoker.

01:06:00.000 Okay.

01:06:00.000 What does it say about oxygen, though?

01:06:03.000 That's where it was going.

01:06:05.000 This puts it all together.

01:06:07.000 The nicotine basically is taking the place of the oxygen, I think, is what the other...

01:06:11.000 There's another...

01:06:12.000 It's a less scientific paper, but...

01:06:15.000 Nicotine stays in the bloodstream longer with smokeless tobacco than cigarettes.

01:06:18.000 Oral tobacco.

01:06:19.000 Which is why it causes heart disease.

01:06:22.000 Yeah.

01:06:23.000 Okay.

01:06:24.000 It's not a safe alternative, folks.

01:06:26.000 That's what it's saying.

01:06:28.000 All right.

01:06:29.000 Either way, bad for you.

01:06:31.000 But you started smoking cigarettes.

01:06:32.000 Yeah, not because...

01:06:34.000 Were you a smoking when you're drinking kind of guy?

01:06:36.000 No, it was because I wanted, I liked the nicotine.

01:06:36.000 Is that what it was?

01:06:39.000 Oh.

01:06:40.000 And I chewed, you know, and I wanted to give the gums a break, the lips a break, and I smoked so that way I didn't have to chew.

01:06:47.000 Right.

01:06:47.000 And doing the lifting and powerlifting, I went over and I think I got seven squats and I couldn't breathe.

01:06:54.000 Jesus.

01:06:55.000 And I said, you know what?

01:06:56.000 This is a shame.

01:06:57.000 How long have you been smoking for?

01:06:58.000 That was only eight months, seven months.

01:07:01.000 That's long enough.

01:07:02.000 Yeah, I said, you know what?

01:07:05.000 Because I had no plans coming back to the ring.

01:07:07.000 I didn't.

01:07:08.000 So I was done.

01:07:09.000 And I got to seven reps into the squat.

01:07:13.000 And I was like, you know, this is sad.

01:07:15.000 I was a former, you know, world-class athlete.

01:07:18.000 So I was done right after that day.

01:07:20.000 Put the cigarettes back.

01:07:22.000 Good for you.

01:07:23.000 Yeah.

01:07:24.000 I'm sad you started it out, but glad you figured out to let it go.

01:07:27.000 Yes.

01:07:29.000 That's a weird choice, though, at 30. Yeah.

01:07:33.000 Well, it's nicotine.

01:07:36.000 That's what a lot of people do when they try to quit the chewing.

01:07:39.000 They go over to the smoking.

01:07:41.000 Don't they just go to the gum, usually?

01:07:42.000 You could do that, too, but some people just like it.

01:07:46.000 Well, it does juice you up.

01:07:46.000 I don't know.

01:07:46.000 Yeah.

01:07:49.000 Tony Hinchcliffe smokes cigarettes.

01:07:51.000 He doesn't anymore, but he used to.

01:07:52.000 And a couple of times, I took a cigarette from him and smoked it before I went on stage.

01:07:56.000 And he's like, dude, you're going to get hooked.

01:07:56.000 Mm-hmm.

01:07:57.000 He was worried about me.

01:07:58.000 You're going to get hooked.

01:07:59.000 I'm like, I'm not going to get hooked.

01:08:00.000 I'm just going to smoke this one cigarette.

01:08:02.000 I'm not going to go buy a pack.

01:08:04.000 But people are so scared of it.

01:08:06.000 Well, I see why, though.

01:08:06.000 Yeah.

01:08:08.000 Yeah.

01:08:09.000 Especially, again, as I'm mentioning, I'm over.

01:08:12.000 I used to be able to do all that, and then I do seven reps on a squat, and I'm having a hard time breathing.

01:08:18.000 And I racked it.

01:08:20.000 Now, granted, squats are hard, though.

01:08:21.000 I mean, you're going to...

01:08:22.000 Yeah.

01:08:23.000 If you're depending on the weight and how many reps you're doing, it's a different type of exercise.

01:08:26.000 But, you know, I was done after that, so...

01:08:29.000 You had a drinking thing for a while, too, huh?

01:08:32.000 Yeah.

01:08:34.000 That's one that gets a lot of fighters. 0.99

01:08:37.000 Yeah.

01:08:38.000 It does.

01:08:42.000 But it's one, you know, on that...

01:08:45.000 It ticks me off and it don't.

01:08:47.000 It ticks you off?

01:08:48.000 How so?

01:08:48.000 Yeah.

01:08:50.000 A lot of it ran through the hometown.

01:08:54.000 And the troubles that I got in with it, TMZ, stuff like that, the incidents that happened were petty.

01:09:06.000 Small...

01:09:08.000 And if it wasn't in Youngstown, I would have never made news.

01:09:11.000 Stuff that kind of happens. 1.00

01:09:13.000 Like what kind of shit? 1.00

01:09:14.000 BB guns. 1.00

01:09:16.000 Yeah, I shot a kid.

01:09:16.000 You had a BB gun?

01:09:18.000 We were playing around.

01:09:19.000 I was taking care of him.

01:09:20.000 And this is the truth of the story.

01:09:22.000 Taking care of him.

01:09:23.000 I was putting a big lake in my backyard.

01:09:25.000 And I got the country boy.

01:09:27.000 I mean, I went out and rented two excavators and some bobcats and started putting the pond in.

01:09:34.000 This guy I was helping out, he knows how to run the excavators.

01:09:39.000 So he needed work.

01:09:41.000 He had no money.

01:09:42.000 I was taking care of him and his kids over at the house.

01:09:45.000 He's working.

01:09:47.000 So long story short, After about five days, I come home, and he's in the pond or lake just in his underwear playing around.

01:09:56.000 I grab the BB gun.

01:09:58.000 I'm joking around with him, you know, because we were shooting targets for a couple days in between working. 0.99

01:10:03.000 I shoot him in the arm. 0.97

01:10:06.000 Forty-two years old. 0.99

01:10:07.000 Forty-one years old at the time, too, so it wasn't a kid.

01:10:11.000 He's like, ah, you shot me.

01:10:11.000 He gets out.

01:10:13.000 And he's crying about it and everything else.

01:10:15.000 And next thing you know, he's cool, though.

01:10:17.000 He gets out.

01:10:18.000 It's on Facebook.

01:10:19.000 And he's giggling, laughing about it.

01:10:21.000 And he stays at my house that night.

01:10:22.000 His kids come over.

01:10:23.000 I'm feeding them.

01:10:24.000 We're having cookouts the next day.

01:10:27.000 And little things that I don't know that I'm glad that I'm not involved in no more.

01:10:30.000 Or I don't put myself in that situation.

01:10:34.000 So he stays for two days after that at my house.

01:10:38.000 And...

01:10:40.000 His uncle comes there, who worked for the local sheriff's department, and goes, hey, is so-and-so here?

01:10:47.000 And I said, yeah, he was.

01:10:49.000 I haven't seen him, no.

01:10:50.000 And he goes, okay, listen.

01:10:52.000 He goes, Kelly, I'm coming here to tell you, so that way the news, the media, everything else don't come.

01:10:57.000 He has a warrant out for his arrest, and tell him, you know, if he comes back, call us.

01:11:05.000 So, he leaves.

01:11:06.000 I go walk it through the house, and Brian comes down the steps, and I was like, dude, you gotta get the hell out of here.

01:11:13.000 I was like, I didn't know anything of this.

01:11:15.000 You having a warrant, blah, blah, blah.

01:11:17.000 He goes over and passes out on my couch.

01:11:20.000 I call his uncle.

01:11:21.000 Hey, you want him?

01:11:23.000 He's here.

01:11:24.000 So he finds out he ends up running out of the house and they catch him, you know, that night or whatever.

01:11:29.000 They take him in.

01:11:30.000 He does two months in the county jail, gets out, takes his uniform off, walks over to the sheriff's department and presses charges.

01:11:41.000 On you?

01:11:42.000 Yes. 0.58

01:11:42.000 For shooting with a BB gun? 0.58

01:11:44.000 Yes.

01:11:45.000 And a buddy of mine who was there when it happened was videoing it.

01:11:49.000 His girlfriend's laughing in the background, you know, when it happened.

01:11:53.000 It was just a video of it happening.

01:11:56.000 He sold it to TMZ. And next thing you know, I end up getting served or whatnot.

01:12:03.000 My attorney calls me also and says, hey, go down, turn yourself in.

01:12:09.000 You know, it's a federal assault charge.

01:12:12.000 Jesus, BB guns, a federal assault charge?

01:12:15.000 Yes, yeah.

01:12:18.000 That was it.

01:12:19.000 And again, it was all over money.

01:12:21.000 It was a drawn-out case.

01:12:23.000 Supposed to have been beat.

01:12:25.000 And it turned to that over a BB gun with a guy, and he said it was an assault.

01:12:30.000 How much was he trying to get from you?

01:12:32.000 He got nine grand.

01:12:33.000 And when he filed the civil suit a couple months into this, the criminal charges were supposed to be dropped at that point because the prosecutor and everybody knew that it was all about money.

01:12:43.000 So they were going to drop the criminal charge.

01:12:46.000 They never did.

01:12:48.000 And it goes back in Youngstown.

01:12:50.000 You know, I was out in the public eye.

01:12:53.000 And some of the people, they had it out.

01:12:55.000 They have.

01:12:57.000 For people to understand how big a star you are in Youngstown.

01:13:00.000 I mean, I remember at the time, I remember reading stories, seeing news clips.

01:13:04.000 I mean, Youngstown's not a big place.

01:13:06.000 And other than Ray Boom Boom Mancini, there's not a whole lot of really famous people, especially fighters that come out of Youngstown. 0.98

01:13:12.000 But you were a fucking giant celebrity in that town. 0.97

01:13:15.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:13:16.000 And that was kind of my bad on that.

01:13:19.000 That's where I take the fault.

01:13:21.000 Well, it's probably hard for you to recognize.

01:13:23.000 You're not even 30 years old.

01:13:24.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:13:25.000 All this shit is going on. 1.00

01:13:27.000 And it's true. 1.00

01:13:27.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:13:28.000 And I'm not looking for that as an excuse when I say it.

01:13:31.000 But it is true. 0.90

01:13:32.000 I looked at myself as everybody else.

01:13:34.000 Right.

01:13:35.000 I think that was the issue.

01:13:36.000 You hadn't recognized yet that you're in some weird place where you have to watch what you're doing.

01:13:40.000 I felt like if I go to the bar and somebody goes, boy, Kelly Powell's been here three days. 0.84

01:13:44.000 He's a lush.

01:13:45.000 Yeah.

01:13:46.000 My argument was, I got every right to be here just like you do.

01:13:49.000 Matter of fact, I have more of a right.

01:13:51.000 I'm retired.

01:13:52.000 I've got my money put away.

01:13:54.000 You're probably drinking your weekly pay away.

01:13:56.000 That was my...

01:13:59.000 Thought process.

01:14:00.000 Thought process of that.

01:14:01.000 And it probably wasn't right, you know, because it comes down to is you are a big fish in a little pond and it's a small city.

01:14:11.000 And I think that by being out there, I brought a lot on myself because of that.

01:14:16.000 It is what it is.

01:14:17.000 Unfortunately, as an athlete, you can't do that.

01:14:22.000 So that happened over a period of time, and the war got around in a lot of anger.

01:14:27.000 You had some jealous, some angry, some who just didn't like me.

01:14:31.000 Also, just so much fun for them to gossip.

01:14:34.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:14:36.000 Really, I'm not beating up Youngstown.

01:14:36.000 Because what else?

01:14:38.000 I love it.

01:14:39.000 It made me who I am.

01:14:41.000 But if you really look up Youngstown, there ain't a lot to talk about.

01:14:44.000 Besides the fact that we do put out the most NFL players per capita.

01:15:03.000 36 years as it came out.

01:15:06.000 Who are the other world champs besides Ray Boom and Mancini?

01:15:08.000 Mancini, Harry Arroyo.

01:15:09.000 Harry Arroyo actually held the title in the same weight class around the same exact time that Mancini did.

01:15:15.000 You had Jeff Lampkin, Greg Richardson, and then you had a handful of other guys like Roland Cummings and fighters out there that were making noise out of Youngstown.

01:15:26.000 A guy, Ken Signorani, who fought Chavez and Camacho out of Youngstown.

01:15:30.000 But, um, Being there like that, it brought a lot of attention and people wanted.

01:15:39.000 And there was a lot of angry people.

01:15:41.000 Was it weird growing up there and then becoming a famous guy there?

01:15:44.000 Yeah, it is. 0.97

01:15:45.000 Because again, people tell you, hey, when you get to that level, when you win the world title, shit's going to change, man. 0.95

01:15:53.000 And you're going, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. 0.98

01:15:55.000 You think you know, right?

01:15:56.000 Like you're going, yeah, I got what you're saying.

01:15:59.000 And then it happens and you win it.

01:16:01.000 And it's so true when they say overnight.

01:16:04.000 Like, you're not you no more.

01:16:06.000 You know, like, you can't be yourself no more.

01:16:09.000 It's, everything changes and it comes down to the person.

01:16:12.000 Even though if you don't want to change and you like living your life the way you did two days ago, unfortunately, you can't.

01:16:19.000 You know, and it's hard and it's something that you got to learn how to deal with.

01:16:26.000 And that wasn't my choice, though.

01:16:28.000 You know what I mean by that?

01:16:29.000 My choice wasn't to go out and act like a jackaloon.

01:16:32.000 My choice was kind of just be me, though.

01:16:35.000 Right.

01:16:36.000 You just did what you wanted to do.

01:16:37.000 I did.

01:16:38.000 And then it just became a big issue because you were a famous guy.

01:16:43.000 Yes.

01:16:44.000 And another issue on top of that came, too, was where I could actually take the blame for this.

01:16:50.000 And I honestly can.

01:16:51.000 A lot of it came down to—and everybody's different, so I'm speaking for myself— I trained my ass off when I trained.

01:17:01.000 I was a six, seven hours a day type guy, and that's what got me to throw as many punches as I did a round, and I was in great shape for every fight.

01:17:11.000 I sacrificed a lot of things.

01:17:12.000 I gave up a lot, even starting from high school, being an amateur and just turning pro right out of high school.

01:17:19.000 I missed a lot of things.

01:17:21.000 My mentality was when I had time, I was going to live.

01:17:26.000 I was going to live like my friends who were 19, 20, 21, 24. And that was the process of it.

01:17:34.000 I do believe, though, at a point, especially after I retired, It got a little out of hand.

01:17:41.000 Absolutely.

01:17:42.000 I'm not going to be the person to sit here and say it didn't.

01:17:45.000 It did.

01:17:46.000 I'm not naive enough to say that.

01:17:48.000 Well, you know better than anybody, but the rumors were always that you were drinking a lot, and that was affecting your career.

01:17:56.000 It may have to some point.

01:17:58.000 I don't think it did.

01:17:59.000 People say it used the fact that Hopkins beat me, and that was the reason, and that's why I retired so young.

01:18:06.000 And it wasn't.

01:18:07.000 It truly wasn't.

01:18:09.000 Maybe some of the stuff I was doing, especially as I got older, in between fights, the drinking, I think that that may have hurt a little bit.

01:18:16.000 I don't think it was enough to make any significant changes in my career, to be honest with you.

01:18:22.000 But, you know, who knows with that?

01:18:25.000 If I didn't, we'll never know.

01:18:27.000 Again, but I lived up and do I got anything to regret about it?

01:18:30.000 No.

01:18:31.000 Do you still live in Youngstown?

01:18:32.000 Yeah, on the outside, in the suburbs, you know.

01:18:35.000 Is it, I mean, it's got to be strange to have grown up there, been a child there, and then become an internationally famous world champion boxer and celebrity and still stay there.

01:18:48.000 Yeah.

01:18:50.000 The world changes and you're still Kelly Pavlik.

01:18:53.000 And I think after I retired, that's where some of the mistakes have come to, where I should have gotten out.

01:18:59.000 Maybe come out here to California or go to New York.

01:19:03.000 Come on out, Kelly! 1.00

01:19:04.000 Yeah, right?

01:19:06.000 We're working on it.

01:19:06.000 Plenty of room.

01:19:07.000 Yeah, I just had that last night with my manager, Mark.

01:19:11.000 What are they talking about you doing out here?

01:19:13.000 Can you say?

01:19:15.000 He's throwing around ideas also.

01:19:17.000 Again, we were talking about what we had talked about earlier with the fight coming back.

01:19:21.000 We talked about the Dancing with the Stars thing.

01:19:23.000 That's some ideas.

01:19:24.000 He's looking into also sponsorships.

01:19:27.000 You know, again, Mark has got a lot of connects.

01:19:31.000 He's in that industry.

01:19:32.000 Well, boxing's in an interesting place right now, and I was really bummed out that HBO canceled their boxing series.

01:19:39.000 I mean, after how many years?

01:19:41.000 43 years.

01:19:42.000 Something crazy like that?

01:19:43.000 Yeah, 43. They put on some of the all-time great classic fights.

01:19:48.000 I think Jim Lampley, one of the best commentators of all time.

01:19:51.000 I loved hearing Roy Jones Jr. do it and Andre Ward.

01:19:58.000 Max Kellerman was amazing.

01:20:00.000 I just can't believe that it's over.

01:20:03.000 I guess it wasn't profitable for them or they just decided to get out of the business.

01:20:07.000 I really don't understand it.

01:20:09.000 I don't believe that it's going to be gone for long.

01:20:12.000 From HBO? Yeah, for some reason.

01:20:14.000 I think, you know, Lampley still has the fight game on there, and they're doing that.

01:20:20.000 I heard rumors of maybe Roy Jones taking it over or buying it out, or somebody buying...

01:20:27.000 The big issue, I think, is what happens to HBO, and Showtime is doing very well right now.

01:20:33.000 Yes, they're doing great.

01:20:34.000 I'm not sure if they'll ever fall into the situation that HBO did, but you have these apps coming out now, ESPN +, DAZN, and again, what they just...

01:20:45.000 I had that signing with Canelo.

01:20:46.000 How big that was.

01:20:47.000 The richest athlete.

01:20:48.000 You know, the biggest contract.

01:20:49.000 It was like $650 million or something.

01:20:51.000 I thought it was $365 million.

01:20:53.000 What was it?

01:20:54.000 Canelo's?

01:20:55.000 How much money?

01:20:56.000 Something.

01:20:56.000 I think it was $365 million.

01:20:58.000 But there was also, you know, incentives and everything else with that.

01:21:04.000 $365 million.

01:21:05.000 Yeah.

01:21:05.000 I knew there was a six in there.

01:21:07.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:21:07.000 That's a lot of fucking money. 1.00

01:21:09.000 Yes, it is. 0.99

01:21:10.000 For, I think, 11 fights or whatever it was.

01:21:12.000 That's crazy.

01:21:12.000 And so, again, that's where these people are coming to this ESPN. Plus, they can watch these fights now.

01:21:19.000 Yeah.

01:21:19.000 On these for $7.99, $9.99.

01:21:22.000 The Zone has UFC or MMA fight, or I think it's Bellator fights, whatever on there.

01:21:27.000 It is nice that ESPN is putting on a lot of fights now.

01:21:29.000 Exactly.

01:21:30.000 And they also now have a deal with the UFC. So into 2019, now the first UFC event is going to be January 19th, which is TJ Dillashaw versus Henry Cejudo for the flyweight title.

01:21:40.000 And they're really putting on some great fights on ESPN. It's just exciting to see MMA being recognized by ESPN. But it's exciting to see ESPN put Lomachenko fights on.

01:21:51.000 Exactly.

01:21:51.000 Because ESPN used to be kind of more so the prospects.

01:21:54.000 The Friday Night Fights were the up-and-coming guys.

01:21:57.000 And they were putting that on.

01:21:58.000 And that was great for the prospects.

01:22:00.000 I think they need to actually keep doing that maybe on a different night.

01:22:04.000 But now they're putting the Lomachenkos and they're putting the world-class fighters on ESPN. Was Terrence Crawford's last fight on ESPN? I believe it was.

01:22:10.000 Yeah, that's awesome.

01:22:12.000 That's awesome.

01:22:12.000 Yeah, and that app, that ESPN Plus, like I'm saying.

01:22:15.000 So there's more accessibility to that.

01:22:17.000 And people would rather pay that than...

01:22:19.000 Order the $69 or $89 or $100 pay-per-view fights.

01:22:23.000 Right.

01:22:24.000 $7 a month is nice.

01:22:25.000 It is.

01:22:26.000 Yeah.

01:22:26.000 I mean, with the UFC, the UFC has UFC Fight Pass, and they have events just constantly.

01:22:33.000 Yeah.

01:22:33.000 Same sort of deal.

01:22:34.000 And that's great for that.

01:22:35.000 It is, because it's an easier outlet for it.

01:22:38.000 Yeah, and you can watch on your phone on a train.

01:22:41.000 Exactly.

01:22:42.000 It's like the world's changing, and now also I love the fact you could stream it from your phone right to your television.

01:22:48.000 If you've got a smart TV, you can watch it.

01:22:50.000 Exactly.

01:22:51.000 I was even thinking about that at my gym, because I know how it is with business and ordering pay-per-view fights.

01:22:57.000 There was actually a funny story about that in Youngstown with that, too, where everybody thought it was My fault.

01:23:03.000 But yeah, you could get that.

01:23:05.000 I could have 40 people there on a big fight night, UFC fight night or a boxing fight night, and I could just put that phone right up to the smart TV and we could watch it on there instead of paying...

01:23:15.000 Don't say this!

01:23:17.000 Don't say this right now.

01:23:18.000 They're going to come get you.

01:23:19.000 Oh, yeah.

01:23:20.000 You're not going to do that.

01:23:22.000 This is all hypothetical.

01:23:23.000 This will never happen.

01:23:24.000 You're not going to do that, right?

01:23:25.000 I thought it was legal.

01:23:27.000 Well, the UFC's gone after people in the past for illegally streaming things and then showing them on television.

01:23:33.000 Oh, well, I thought if you had the app...

01:23:35.000 I don't know.

01:23:35.000 I don't know how it works.

01:23:36.000 To be honest...

01:23:37.000 I think it's when you're showing it in a business.

01:23:40.000 Because I know what I was talking about earlier with the Youngstown thing that happened.

01:23:43.000 It was kind of funny.

01:23:44.000 It was...

01:23:47.000 They were getting the fights.

01:23:48.000 They have pay-per-view fights.

01:23:50.000 Some of the businesses were illegally getting it.

01:23:53.000 They all got fined.

01:23:55.000 There were fines going around.

01:23:56.000 People were actually coming to me.

01:23:57.000 I had something to do with it.

01:23:59.000 They were like, I can't believe you could do that.

01:24:01.000 You should have to pay us like $3,000 for the fine that we got.

01:24:05.000 Wow.

01:24:06.000 You?

01:24:07.000 Yes.

01:24:08.000 I started giggling.

01:24:10.000 Last thing on my mind that I was worried about was who was ordering fights in Youngstown when I'm here in Atlantic City or Vegas right now fighting, getting ready, trying to make weight.

01:24:21.000 And doing the interviews and the press conference and everything else. 0.99

01:24:25.000 What kind of asshole says that you should have to pay? 1.00

01:24:27.000 Yeah, they kind of came out. 1.00

01:24:28.000 And one, actually, my brother was going to get ads for the program from places.

01:24:33.000 And they're like, I'm not putting an ad in.

01:24:35.000 He cost me $3,000.

01:24:37.000 No, you cost you.

01:24:39.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:24:39.000 You fucking pirate. 1.00

01:24:41.000 I hate my days. 1.00

01:24:42.000 And I'm sure I'm not just using that with the Youngstown.

01:24:45.000 That probably would have happened anywhere in a small area.

01:24:48.000 Well, you know, illegal streaming, if they don't do something about it, man, it would run rampant.

01:24:54.000 I just don't know what the thing to do that's correct is.

01:24:58.000 You know, I've seen some outrageous fines.

01:25:00.000 I don't know, you know.

01:25:02.000 And as we just, what happened earlier, we don't know what's legal and what's not either anymore with all the different internet stuff and apps that you have with the smart TVs.

01:25:13.000 With TVs, yeah.

01:25:14.000 Or can you stream it on your phone and have a bunch of people look over your shoulder?

01:25:18.000 Yeah.

01:25:19.000 How does that work?

01:25:19.000 Or if you have a smart TV. Yeah, like if you have it on your phone and then like 20 of your friends come over and they're behind you.

01:25:26.000 Yeah.

01:25:27.000 And you say, hey man, everybody give me a dollar.

01:25:29.000 Yeah.

01:25:31.000 You get in trouble for that?

01:25:32.000 How does that work?

01:25:33.000 Or that could be a great idea.

01:25:34.000 It's not the worst idea.

01:25:36.000 But yeah, how does that work?

01:25:37.000 Because with Apple TV, anything you're watching, you can watch a YouTube video and you just stream it to that TV with a quick swipe and a press.

01:25:45.000 Bam.

01:25:45.000 Yeah.

01:25:46.000 Yeah.

01:25:47.000 Yeah.

01:25:47.000 I think the move for them is to make it easily accessible.

01:25:52.000 Like, WWE was the first one to figure that out, right?

01:25:55.000 They figured out how to...

01:25:56.000 You get, like, a monthly subscription and you get to watch all the events.

01:26:00.000 And then the UFC did that with Fight Pass and ESPN Plus doing this.

01:26:04.000 And WWE knows how to make the money, as we can all see.

01:26:08.000 Yeah, for sure.

01:26:09.000 You know, I think what's also great is some of these inside stations, you know, local stations and inside putting these fights on also, like they used to do back in the day, you know, the ABC fights.

01:26:18.000 Yeah.

01:26:18.000 And I was a CBS. Why will the sports?

01:26:21.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:26:21.000 Yeah, all that shit. 1.00

01:26:22.000 You know, and doing that again, you know, why wouldn't you? 1.00

01:26:24.000 It's great for the sport and, you know, that's how you get people involved back in it.

01:26:28.000 You know, it's almost like...

01:26:30.000 Almost every other generation or every other decade, there's that group of fighters that come out.

01:26:36.000 You know, like Ali, Frazier, guys like that.

01:26:39.000 Then you had like the Tyson, Holyfield, Redick Bowe.

01:26:45.000 But also at that time, it was easy and it was accessible to watch all the time.

01:26:50.000 Yeah.

01:26:50.000 Now, you know, it's not.

01:26:52.000 And even the apps, which I think is great.

01:26:54.000 You get a lot of guys in their 40s and 50s who don't want to have to watch an app on their TV. So I think if they start bringing back just a little more variety of shows or something.

01:27:06.000 Well, it seems like, especially with boxing right now, the talent level is extremely high.

01:27:11.000 I mean, it is with MMA as well, but I mean, with boxing, it seems to be on an upswing.

01:27:15.000 And it also seems like people are really interested in some of these big rivalries, like Triple G and Canelo.

01:27:22.000 That was two amazing fights.

01:27:24.000 I thought the first one was a robbery.

01:27:26.000 I thought that Triple G won the first one, but the second one...

01:27:28.000 I hope they don't fight again.

01:27:29.000 Really?

01:27:30.000 Yeah.

01:27:31.000 Why's that?

01:27:31.000 Because when you get a guy that hits as hard as Triple G does, and you get a guy that's as good as Canelo, and even though they're not getting dropped and they're not getting knocked out, Them type of fights take a lot out of you.

01:27:45.000 They really do.

01:27:46.000 And they shared a lot in those two fights.

01:27:48.000 And we don't know, even right now, if the next fight or the fight after that Canelo starts showing some of the effects from those first two fights.

01:27:56.000 You think so?

01:27:57.000 Yeah.

01:27:57.000 You get a guy that hits...

01:27:58.000 Two guys that hit that hard and they're in there fighting like that, eventually it does drain you a little bit.

01:28:04.000 And that will catch up.

01:28:05.000 I think a third fight will shorten the career of Canelo.

01:28:09.000 I'm not going to say Triple G because Triple G is my age now and I... I have a feeling that his might be getting short here pretty soon anyways, just due to age.

01:28:17.000 But Canelo, I mean, those are brutal fights.

01:28:21.000 They were brutal fights.

01:28:22.000 Did you think that, some people thought that Triple G won the second fight as well.

01:28:26.000 I thought it was a much closer fight than the first fight.

01:28:29.000 But did you think that Canelo or Triple G, I think Canelo showed some improvement, but it's also possible that Triple G might have slowed down a little bit.

01:28:36.000 I think so.

01:28:37.000 You know, the first fight I had at 9-3 for Triple G. That's how I scored it.

01:28:41.000 That sounds about right.

01:28:42.000 Yeah, and I gave the first three rounds to Canelo, and then I had it every round after for Triple G. This fight, I thought Canelo won.

01:28:50.000 Close fight, and if you gave it to Triple G, I wouldn't have screamed robbery.

01:28:54.000 I think Teddy was saying that he thought that Triple G won, but I felt like it's a pretty close fight.

01:29:01.000 Pretty close fight, but certainly Canelo showed much improvement.

01:29:04.000 He did, and he fought a better fight.

01:29:06.000 The first half of the fight, I gave Canelo a lot of rounds because I thought he controlled the fight with the body shots.

01:29:13.000 Everybody thought Triple G was controlling it with the jab, but the reason why Triple G wasn't using his size and strength and was using his jab was because of the body shots that Canelo was landing.

01:29:23.000 I mean, they were brutal, and I just thought Canelo dictated the pace of those first couple rounds.

01:29:28.000 I thought he won enough of the early rounds, and obviously Triple G won most of the second half of the fight.

01:29:36.000 But I thought it was a little too late, you know, and I had Canelo up by a round or two.

01:29:42.000 Yeah, those are two fighters that really sort of epitomize what people like to see when they like to see these classic rivalries, right?

01:29:53.000 Like a guy like Triple G who's just forward pressure, constant, throwing bombs, knockout puncher.

01:29:59.000 A guy like Canelo who's just one of those classic Mexican fighters that has incredible heart, wants to fight the best of the best, like really takes it...

01:30:09.000 Like he did in the first fight.

01:30:12.000 Stay on the ropes with Triple G and let him use that power to beat your organs. 0.98

01:30:18.000 I'm not one to talk.

01:30:20.000 I kind of like getting in and getting involved myself with guys, especially like Miranda, who...

01:30:25.000 I personally believe it harder than Triple G. Really?

01:30:29.000 But that was my strategy.

01:30:32.000 As we're Canelo, that really wasn't a great strategy.

01:30:35.000 I didn't lay on the ropes and let Miranda beat me. 1.00

01:30:37.000 Do you think he just didn't know what to expect until he was in there with Triple G? It could have been because everything changes.

01:30:44.000 I think Mike Tyson said it.

01:30:45.000 Everybody's got a game plan until they get hit.

01:30:49.000 He might have got touched, like I said, even with the tension in that Mayweather fight.

01:30:53.000 The whole brain might have just started going 1,000 miles an hour trying to figure out, okay, this ain't going to probably work tonight with this guy because he's a lot stronger than I expected.

01:31:03.000 And he was just trying to maybe tire him out.

01:31:05.000 The only issue is now when you're on the ropes like that and you're getting hit by a guy that hits that hard in the delts, in the elbow, in the forearms, and to the body.

01:31:14.000 And then you're tightening up and you're tensing up really hard and you're cutting the oxygen off to the blood.

01:31:19.000 It tires you out quicker and it wears you down, you know, more than what he was doing in the middle of the ring by pop-shotting and counter-punching.

01:31:27.000 And he could have dictated how fast he wanted, you know, how much he wanted to punch, how hard he wanted to punch.

01:31:32.000 Yeah, we certainly made some big improvements in that second fight.

01:31:35.000 Yeah.

01:31:36.000 Do you really don't want to see them fight a third time?

01:31:39.000 I truly don't.

01:31:40.000 I mean, if it happens, I'm going to watch it.

01:31:43.000 But they're going to fight, right?

01:31:44.000 I mean, Canelo's obviously going to fight some people, and Triple G's obviously going to continue fighting.

01:31:49.000 Yeah.

01:31:49.000 You know, and again, I don't know how long Triple G's going to fight because, as you mentioned, and I agree with you, I think he's starting to—his age is showing up a little bit with him.

01:31:58.000 Well, I mean, he got avoided by a lot of people, and we— You know, when he had a pay-per-view a couple years back that only got 150,000 buys, and I remember thinking, that is a damn shame. 0.56

01:32:11.000 It is. 0.75

01:32:12.000 It's a damn shame that people don't realize that this is absolutely one of the best fighters ever.

01:32:17.000 I was surprised by that, too, because I think he's a lot more popular than what those numbers showed. 0.93

01:32:21.000 I didn't get it.

01:32:22.000 I don't understand.

01:32:23.000 I mean, I don't...

01:32:25.000 Maybe it's because they didn't think the fight was competitive.

01:32:28.000 I don't know what it was, but it seemed like...

01:32:31.000 I just think, personally, myself, there's a lot of fights out there for Canelo.

01:32:35.000 He just went up to 168. I'm not a big fan of that.

01:32:39.000 Do you think he's too small for 68?

01:32:41.000 I do, especially if you get in with the right fighter.

01:32:44.000 I truly do believe that.

01:32:46.000 How tall is he?

01:32:47.000 5'10"?

01:32:47.000 Yeah, 5'9", 5'10".

01:32:49.000 But, you know, with boxing or, like, football, when you see the height, you always got to take an inch and a half off, too.

01:32:56.000 Oh, do they lock?

01:32:56.000 Yeah, me listed 6'3".

01:32:58.000 I'm right under 6'2", by, like, that much.

01:33:00.000 So it's kind of like the football program in high school.

01:33:02.000 Right, right, right.

01:33:03.000 But Canelo, I think that there's guys out there staying at 68 is kind of dangerous.

01:33:09.000 I think he's right now talented enough to keep good fights out there.

01:33:12.000 Yeah, but it's a little dangerous in my opinion.

01:33:14.000 Who do you think at 68 could cause problems for him?

01:33:17.000 You got even guys like Zerto, Benavidez.

01:33:19.000 You know, those are dangerous fights.

01:33:21.000 Just them two guys right there, I would have to take.

01:33:23.000 Not so much overall skill-wise, just size and being at that weight.

01:33:28.000 And, you know, you got guys coming down like B-Vol from 175 to 168. I think that his better days are going to be at 160. Does he have a hard time making 60, or did he just have an opportunity to fight 68 and he took it?

01:33:43.000 I think it's the trophies.

01:33:45.000 And I don't blame him for that either.

01:33:47.000 He had the right fight to go up to 168, so he'll get another weight division under his belt.

01:33:51.000 Yeah, he was tuning that dude up.

01:33:53.000 I think that'll be, what, three?

01:33:55.000 No, he's a three-weight class champ.

01:33:57.000 Yeah.

01:33:57.000 And so that looks good on paper when you retire.

01:34:01.000 Yeah, well...

01:34:02.000 It does.

01:34:03.000 I would have done it if I could have, you know, if there was the right fights out there, but...

01:34:08.000 When he fought Mayweather, Mayweather made him cut down to, what, 52?

01:34:11.000 Was it something like that?

01:34:12.000 I think they had a catchweight around that.

01:34:14.000 Yeah.

01:34:16.000 That fight was, to me, well, it was a good learning experience for him to be in there with a guy who's as slick as Floyd is, but also a good learning experience that you're not supposed to suck that much weight out of your body.

01:34:26.000 He didn't have the fire.

01:34:28.000 Even though you have 24 hours or however long it is to try to rehydrate, that's never enough time to recoup.

01:34:36.000 So your thing is you're just hoping your opponent's going through the same thing that you are.

01:34:41.000 That's what it comes down to.

01:34:42.000 What I do like about boxing that is missing in MMA is more weight classes.

01:34:47.000 I really think that, and that's one of the things that people have a problem with in boxing.

01:34:51.000 They think there's too many weight classes.

01:34:52.000 I don't agree with that.

01:34:53.000 I think, if anything, there's too many world champions.

01:34:55.000 I think it's ridiculous that in any organization that one guy could be a WBC world champion, the other guy could be a WA, there's an IBF, there's a WBO. I mean, like, that's crazy.

01:35:05.000 It's crazy to have that many world champions.

01:35:08.000 It should be a world champion.

01:35:09.000 But how do you decide what organization is the real sanctioning body?

01:35:14.000 Well, you just need one sanctioning body.

01:35:16.000 I don't know how you would do that either because it's all money.

01:35:20.000 You know what I mean? 0.94

01:35:20.000 Oh, they're all so corrupt. 0.94

01:35:21.000 Yeah, it's all money and it's hard to do that.

01:35:23.000 I see your point on that a little bit.

01:35:26.000 And then I also look at like...

01:35:29.000 We're good to go.

01:35:44.000 I kind of like maybe knocking down a three, but I think when you have the different weight classes, now you've got four people.

01:35:51.000 Just say one person has each belt.

01:35:52.000 You've got four world champs.

01:35:54.000 Now you're looking at these four guys, and you can start taking these prospects and start saying, this would be an interesting fight with this guy and this guy.

01:36:02.000 And then I do believe that they should make happen one undisputed champ.

01:36:06.000 I believe so, too.

01:36:08.000 I think that should happen in every weight class.

01:36:10.000 Yep, they should have a fight off or a box off. 0.99

01:36:21.000 It just seems weird to have more than one world champion.

01:36:27.000 You're either the world champ.

01:36:28.000 It's like, how many guys won the Super Bowl this year?

01:36:30.000 How many teams?

01:36:31.000 One.

01:36:32.000 It should be one.

01:36:34.000 You can't have multiple world champions.

01:36:36.000 When Anthony Joshua is walking around as a heavyweight champion, but also Deontay Wilder is walking around as a heavyweight champion, what is this?

01:36:44.000 Are you the heavyweight champion, or are you the champion of an organization?

01:36:47.000 That falls into what we were talking about earlier with the Jermaine Taylor thing when he vacated the belts.

01:36:53.000 In my mind, you won the unified title.

01:36:56.000 Unified or universal or recognizable middleweight champ.

01:36:59.000 The ring middleweight title.

01:37:00.000 Because where does the lineal begin?

01:37:02.000 When does it not?

01:37:03.000 And I had the ring title.

01:37:04.000 Right.

01:37:04.000 So usually, in most cases, the ring title is undisputed or lineal champ.

01:37:09.000 So in other words, the champ of that weight class.

01:37:12.000 Right.

01:37:13.000 For the most part, you know who is the champion of a weight class.

01:37:17.000 Well, Ring Magazine's title is almost as valuable as anybody else.

01:37:20.000 It is.

01:37:21.000 And that's the one that I really showcase when I show people my case.

01:37:25.000 Well, it's so classic, too, with the stripes and the...

01:37:28.000 I think Rocky really did a lot for that belt, too.

01:37:30.000 Yes!

01:37:31.000 You know what I mean?

01:37:31.000 I do.

01:37:32.000 That's true.

01:37:32.000 Yeah.

01:37:33.000 Well, it's a classy-looking belt, you know, and everybody else has got the big ones with the leather and the strap.

01:37:38.000 Like, the Ring Magazine's a nice one.

01:37:40.000 Yep.

01:37:41.000 I wanted the belts.

01:37:42.000 You know, I didn't want to pay the sanctioning fees for all four of the belts, but I still wanted the IBF and the WBA to put in the trophy case.

01:37:51.000 But, unfortunately, a lot of them fights fell through.

01:37:54.000 When you were coming up when you were a kid and you were watching boxing, were you a Hagler fan?

01:38:01.000 I was a Hagler fan, but that's another one that's actually weird with me.

01:38:05.000 Even having guys like Mancini and Arroyo from Youngstown and guys like that, I never really had this one person that I was like, Or a poster in my bedroom, you know, like Deloy or something.

01:38:16.000 You never had one guy that, like, you emulated or you were really looked up to?

01:38:19.000 No, I emulated everybody.

01:38:20.000 And I think that's what helped me get as far as I did in my career. 0.95

01:38:23.000 I mean, even when I was 16, I could watch a 9-year-old sparring and see him do something cool and hit a guy and I'd be like, damn, you know, I'm going to try that.

01:38:31.000 That actually might work.

01:38:32.000 I followed it and I was just a big fan of the sport overall.

01:38:36.000 Of course I had guys that like Gotti because of his style coming up and De La Hoya.

01:38:40.000 Sugar Ray Leonard, in my opinion, is probably one of the best fighters pound for pound of all time.

01:38:45.000 And it's arguable.

01:38:46.000 I mean, if somebody says Mayweather, I'm not going to say...

01:38:49.000 He's one of the best for sure. 0.98

01:38:50.000 Yeah, I'm not going to say you're stupid for having a number one. 0.99

01:38:52.000 It's a great debate. 0.99

01:38:54.000 But yeah, so I followed it more as a fan, you know, and I watched, and I took from this person, I took from that person.

01:39:01.000 We had, as I mentioned, we had some prospects in the amateurs coming up that train in the same gym, and I would kind of copy their style, you know, coming up.

01:39:08.000 So I was always trying to keep learning.

01:39:10.000 Like, I even do, and working out now, I find different things that work, you know, and what don't work.

01:39:16.000 And that's what I did as far as boxing.

01:39:18.000 I just watched guys.

01:39:20.000 Here and there, I would copy for like two days, De La Hoya style.

01:39:23.000 You know, he'd be there with the hands up and picking them off with the hands.

01:39:26.000 I'd go in sparring.

01:39:27.000 I didn't try it in a fight.

01:39:28.000 I did it in sparring.

01:39:29.000 And I would copy his style a little bit to see how it works or how I could add it to my arsenal.

01:39:35.000 Yeah, I was just asking about Hagler because he's sort of the quintessential middleweight champion.

01:39:39.000 There's a few guys that you look back in the day and you look at who were just iconic middleweight champions.

01:39:47.000 And your guys in your late 40s and 50s, they'll argue with you that he was the best middleweight of all time.

01:39:53.000 He certainly was one of them.

01:39:55.000 Yeah, and you'll have your guys that have Hopkins.

01:39:58.000 Certainly one of them too.

01:39:59.000 That's what I'm saying.

01:40:00.000 Even the heavyweights, you got your olders, oh, Muhammad Ali was the best.

01:40:05.000 Then you have your guys in the early 40s tell you that to Mike Tyson.

01:40:08.000 So it's kind of like whoever grew up on that.

01:40:10.000 Me personally, you got to get past that because, again, that becomes biased and everybody's going to kind of go with what they grew up with.

01:40:17.000 There was a lot of greats.

01:40:19.000 Sure.

01:40:19.000 Well, people sleep on Lennox Lewis.

01:40:21.000 When you talk about the greats, all-time great heavyweight boxers, how the fuck do you not include Lennox Lewis' discussion? 0.91

01:40:28.000 The size. 0.83

01:40:28.000 The size, the power. 0.83

01:40:29.000 But how do you not put Evander Holyfield?

01:40:31.000 You do.

01:40:32.000 You have to.

01:40:32.000 The guy that beat the Tyson, the crazy… Riddick Bowe.

01:40:36.000 Yeah.

01:40:36.000 I mean, way smaller than Riddick Bowe, too.

01:40:38.000 That was a hell of an era of heavyweights right there. 0.61

01:40:40.000 Crazy.

01:40:41.000 Crazy era.

01:40:42.000 Yeah, it was the 90s, right?

01:40:43.000 And those are the ones, when you say heavyweight division, those were the fighters.

01:40:46.000 But how long ago was that now?

01:40:49.000 By a long time.

01:40:50.000 Yeah, 30-some years.

01:40:51.000 So it don't come around enough.

01:40:53.000 Well, what I'm hoping is more emerging talent in the heavyweight division will sort of take a little bit of this spotlight that you're seeing now that's going on.

01:41:03.000 Fury and Wilder and Joshua and a little bit of Ortiz.

01:41:08.000 I'd like to see more guys get in the mix there and have it be Like it used to be back then, where there are a bunch of really exciting contenders.

01:41:15.000 And you look forward to these big fights.

01:41:17.000 Because right now, there's like four guys, five, six guys at most, that are going to fight each other.

01:41:22.000 Exactly.

01:41:22.000 And hopefully what it does is it gets these other bigger guys, these athletic athletes and skilled athletes, and hopefully it brings them into the boxing again.

01:41:33.000 Did I remember this right?

01:41:35.000 Is David Tua making a comeback?

01:41:36.000 I hope not.

01:41:39.000 Seriously.

01:41:41.000 How old is he? 1.00

01:41:42.000 Shit, he's got to be mid-40s. 1.00

01:41:44.000 Dude, he was 46? 1.00

01:41:47.000 Maybe he's not.

01:41:48.000 Did I make that up that he's making a comeback?

01:41:50.000 I'm looking. 1.00

01:41:51.000 He was a fucking monster. 1.00

01:41:53.000 You know, unfortunately, in the heavyweight division, he probably could get away with that at 46. He might be able to. 1.00

01:41:57.000 He was a goddamn monster. 1.00

01:42:00.000 Well, he was short. 1.00

01:42:01.000 He was a hard guy to fight.

01:42:02.000 He was one of them guys, low to the ground, thick, big legs, no neck.

01:42:09.000 Brutal power.

01:42:09.000 Yeah, big left hook.

01:42:11.000 Yeah.

01:42:12.000 Yeah, he's one of the guys you didn't want to fight, even if you were Lennox Lewis' height.

01:42:16.000 Remember when he knocked out John Ruiz?

01:42:18.000 Yeah.

01:42:19.000 It was brutal.

01:42:20.000 Yeah, no, he was an animal, man. 0.99

01:42:21.000 And he could take a shot, too. 0.69

01:42:23.000 Remember when he fought Ike Abeabuchi?

01:42:25.000 He was the only guy to go the distance with Abeabuchi?

01:42:27.000 That was another big... 1.00

01:42:28.000 He was a scary motherfucker. 1.00

01:42:31.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:42:31.000 And he went to jail for, like, sexual assault or something crazy like that. 1.00

01:42:35.000 He was in jail for a long time.

01:42:36.000 We were just talking about another guy that kind of reminded me of them, Samuel Peters.

01:42:40.000 Oh, yeah.

01:42:41.000 Don't neck.

01:42:43.000 Tank.

01:42:43.000 Just thick.

01:42:43.000 Yeah, he was my height.

01:42:44.000 Actually, I trained with him a little bit out at top ranks, Jim, when we were fighting.

01:42:49.000 He was actually a really cool guy, you know, and he was a big fan of mine, too.

01:42:52.000 So it was kind of neat to be able to share it out with him and, you know, talk with him before we started training.

01:42:57.000 That's cool.

01:42:58.000 That's cool.

01:42:59.000 I want to say that he's getting out soon.

01:43:03.000 He was in jail for a long time.

01:43:06.000 And apparently there was some article that I read a couple of years back that he was planning on making a comeback when he gets released.

01:43:13.000 But again, he's deep into his 40s as well.

01:43:16.000 Yeah, and it's hard to make a comeback.

01:43:17.000 And no matter if it's heavyweight or not, at that level, you know, after being out, I tell people all the time with even young kids that are 21 and 22, when sometimes these promoters freeze their contract or there's a dispute going on and they sit out two years, sometimes...

01:43:33.000 They may not ever come back fully from that.

01:43:35.000 You know what I mean?

01:43:35.000 It's true.

01:43:36.000 Especially at that high of a level, you know, in boxing.

01:43:39.000 Did Mikey Garcia have a contract dispute for a long time?

01:43:42.000 Yeah, and I was concerned about that when he came back.

01:43:44.000 You know, I was concerned about how much damage that time off could have done.

01:43:48.000 How long was his contract dispute for?

01:43:50.000 I think it was two years he didn't fight.

01:43:51.000 Over two years.

01:43:53.000 For a top-level fighter like him, that's a disastrous event.

01:43:56.000 It is.

01:43:57.000 But Mikey, on the other hand, he's a genius in the ring, and he has that going for him.

01:44:05.000 And he also could fight.

01:44:07.000 He's been doing it since he was so young and being in a family.

01:44:10.000 I think the kid came out the womb with boxing gloves on. 0.97

01:44:13.000 There's so many good fights to be made right now.

01:44:15.000 It's just a really exciting time.

01:44:17.000 It's just a really, really exciting time, which is another reason why I'm bummed out that HBO got out of the game.

01:44:24.000 I would like to see HBO come back.

01:44:27.000 You know, there's talks of it, and I think it would be great for the sport, again, if it came back as big as it did.

01:44:34.000 Now, don't get me wrong, towards the end, it was kind of hard to watch with some of the fights they had on, in my opinion.

01:44:39.000 They just weren't interesting.

01:44:41.000 They weren't big fights.

01:44:44.000 Do you think that was a funding thing?

01:44:45.000 Like, they didn't have enough of a budget?

01:44:47.000 That, or I think they knew longer that they were on their way out.

01:44:51.000 Yeah, and saved the money.

01:44:55.000 I don't know how many subscriptions they lost from that.

01:44:57.000 I don't know if it hurt or what.

01:44:59.000 But that's why I say if they're keeping the fight game open and they're showing that, I see it coming back.

01:45:05.000 Especially if Showtime stays with the boxing and doing as big as they are in the box office with the numbers.

01:45:11.000 I see HBO. I think it would have to come back.

01:45:13.000 Well, I think with things like Netflix and Amazon Prime, they're making these television shows now that are so popular and they're such high budget, but you get things like Game of Thrones.

01:45:25.000 It costs so much money to make, but so many people watch it.

01:45:28.000 I think they're concentrating on those kind of things because they're so profitable.

01:45:32.000 And I don't think it's the networks anymore that got to worry about shutting down, too, with all these other Zulu and Amazon and Netflix being out.

01:45:40.000 You know, I think eventually some of the cable companies are going to have to worry.

01:45:44.000 Yeah, no, I'm sure.

01:45:45.000 Yeah, it seems like, you know, we're entering into a new era of entertainment.

01:45:51.000 Yeah, technology and the advancement of it.

01:45:53.000 You know, again, these apps, people, I think that ESPN Plus had over 7 million some...

01:45:59.000 We're good to go.

01:46:18.000 Yeah.

01:46:19.000 It's a very exciting time.

01:46:21.000 It is.

01:46:22.000 Have you thought about...

01:46:23.000 You were talking a little bit about commentary.

01:46:25.000 Have you thought about doing commentary?

01:46:26.000 I have.

01:46:27.000 Have you ever done any of it?

01:46:28.000 No.

01:46:29.000 No?

01:46:29.000 No, but I would like to.

01:46:31.000 Honestly, I would...

01:46:34.000 I'm not knocking anybody.

01:46:35.000 I may not be the best talker in the world either, but I listen to some of the guys on there and I'm like, I think I could do that.

01:46:41.000 Listen, I know you can do it.

01:46:43.000 You definitely do it.

01:46:44.000 But to me, it adds a certain element when a real world-class fighter is breaking down situations.

01:46:51.000 Because you're getting to see it from their perspective of how they would approach it.

01:46:55.000 It's not just a guy who's a boxing expert.

01:46:57.000 It's a guy who did it.

01:46:58.000 Who did it.

01:46:59.000 Yeah, a guy who was a world champion.

01:47:00.000 Like, Andre Ward. 0.75

01:47:01.000 Like, when Andre Ward's on, I fucking love that guy as a commentator. 0.77

01:47:04.000 Yeah, and Paulie's good, too. 0.92

01:47:06.000 Paulie's excellent.

01:47:06.000 Andre and Paulie is phenomenal.

01:47:08.000 Malignaggi's one of my favorites.

01:47:09.000 He's excellent. 1.00

01:47:10.000 Damn, that motherfucker talks good. 1.00

01:47:12.000 For all the times he's been hit in the head. 1.00

01:47:14.000 I know, right?

01:47:14.000 Malignaggi talks so good.

01:47:15.000 He moves his head a little bit, too, though.

01:47:16.000 He moves his head a lot.

01:47:17.000 Yeah, he did. 1.00

01:47:17.000 But he's smart as shit, man. 1.00

01:47:19.000 Yeah, he is. 1.00

01:47:19.000 He's in all aspects of life. 1.00

01:47:21.000 Yeah.

01:47:22.000 He's doing well for himself, and...

01:47:25.000 He does the right things.

01:47:26.000 So, Paul, he's a great person.

01:47:28.000 I like him.

01:47:29.000 He's a good buddy of mine.

01:47:30.000 And, yeah, it is.

01:47:31.000 You know, I think when the fans like to watch and see, you know, they want to hear from the historian or the guy that's the other commentator who just knows the sport and who can speak well.

01:47:42.000 They like care on their side of it.

01:47:44.000 Yes.

01:47:44.000 But I think at some certain times during a fight, they like to hear from the fighter like, Hey, what the hell is going through that guy's mind?

01:47:50.000 He just got smashed with that right hand.

01:47:52.000 Or he got hit with a good body shot.

01:47:54.000 Why does this keep happening again?

01:47:56.000 Why is he doing this?

01:47:57.000 What's going on here?

01:47:58.000 Or what the fighter thinks should be set in a corner in between rounds.

01:48:01.000 So I think it's important to have a guy that's been there, done it as a commentator.

01:48:06.000 Andre Ward is another interesting guy because he's also young.

01:48:09.000 And also world champion, undefeated, and just decided, you know what?

01:48:14.000 I'm good.

01:48:15.000 See ya.

01:48:16.000 He is right now.

01:48:18.000 Actually, it's funny, and I'm going to have to talk about it a little bit.

01:48:21.000 I was covering a fight, the Lomachenko-Perdraza fight, and he comes up to me out of nowhere, and he's like, hey! 0.95

01:48:29.000 Damn, you're getting big. 0.87

01:48:30.000 And he's smiling, he shakes my hand, and he walks down to cover the fight. 0.98

01:48:35.000 And I'm sitting there, and Look at watching the fights, and then I'm getting ready to head out after, you know, the fight's about over, and he comes walking up, and he goes, hey, if they offered you $10 million, would you make a comeback?

01:48:47.000 I'm like, I couldn't find a reason why I wouldn't.

01:48:50.000 I don't know.

01:48:52.000 And he smiled and he walked away and I was going, I'm scratching my head, I'm going, I wonder why, you know, why he would ask me a question like that.

01:49:00.000 And I seen recently that he's looking at certain fighters as a possible comeback.

01:49:05.000 Oh, so he's thinking about doing it again.

01:49:07.000 Yeah, yeah, he is.

01:49:08.000 That itch, it's so itchy.

01:49:11.000 Yeah, it's real.

01:49:12.000 It's so itchy.

01:49:13.000 I just don't think you're ever going to find anything that's going to recreate the highs of like when you knocked out Jermaine Taylor. 0.98

01:49:19.000 How the fuck could you recreate that high? 0.98

01:49:22.000 You can't. 1.00

01:49:23.000 You can't. 0.99

01:49:24.000 That combination, when you pin them in the corner and put them away, and then you walk away and you realize that you won, holy shit. 0.99

01:49:31.000 And that don't even kick in. 0.99

01:49:32.000 That's all going 100 miles an hour.

01:49:34.000 You're up on that.

01:49:35.000 I see the pictures all the time.

01:49:36.000 Pull that up.

01:49:37.000 They have me with the hands in the air, and I see all the people.

01:49:41.000 It was so fast.

01:49:44.000 It took me...

01:49:47.000 A while before I could, even though I walked out of my house and I had them up, you know, on the side.

01:49:52.000 This was before I moved.

01:49:52.000 I still lived with my parents at the time.

01:49:54.000 And I did, too.

01:49:55.000 I had them up at the house, and I'd be leaving to go to the gym or something, and I'd look over at the belts, and I'd go, wow, you know what?

01:50:03.000 Those are mine. 0.99

01:50:03.000 But it never really kicked in until, like, a little while later, like, those are my fucking belts. 0.99

01:50:09.000 I did that. 0.99

01:50:11.000 I'm the world champion.

01:50:13.000 Not only do I got one, but I got three of them. 0.99

01:50:15.000 When you were lying in bed that night, You probably had to be going, am I in a fucking dream? 0.98

01:50:21.000 That's what it felt like. 0.98

01:50:22.000 Here it is.

01:50:22.000 What a fight this was.

01:50:24.000 Goddamn, this was a fight. 0.97

01:50:26.000 This was one of my all-time favorite middleweight championship fights for sure. 1.00

01:50:30.000 And Jermaine Taylor, man, he was a bad motherfucker. 0.99

01:50:33.000 He was. 0.99

01:50:34.000 And again, a lot of people talked about the handful of fights before that and the tough with smaller guys.

01:50:39.000 But he was a bronze medalist who beat the man, Bernard Hopkins.

01:50:43.000 There it is.

01:50:45.000 Doom.

01:50:46.000 It's a combination when you put them away, too. 0.99

01:50:48.000 Fucking phenomenal, man. 0.98

01:50:50.000 Phenomenal. 0.99

01:50:50.000 This right here. 0.99

01:50:52.000 When you walked away.

01:50:53.000 That was all a blur.

01:50:55.000 I just put my hands up. 1.00

01:50:56.000 Fuck, man. 1.00

01:50:58.000 I mean, that feeling. 1.00

01:50:59.000 Try to describe that.

01:51:01.000 What is going through your head?

01:51:02.000 Everything possible for him not to get back up.

01:51:05.000 I know it sounds funny when people say that, but that's the truth. 0.95

01:51:08.000 My big thing was, if I got somebody hurt, get them out.

01:51:12.000 Because boxing is dangerous.

01:51:14.000 And anything can happen.

01:51:15.000 If they can get back up, they have a chance at knocking you out or beating you.

01:51:21.000 But when it was over, what does that feel like?

01:51:24.000 It's hard to explain.

01:51:25.000 It really is.

01:51:27.000 You're on cloud nine.

01:51:29.000 There's nothing that can bring you down.

01:51:32.000 You went from being a prospect to being a world champion, to being a huge superstar in boxing.

01:51:40.000 Yeah.

01:51:40.000 And it's hard to grasp at once.

01:51:42.000 And it takes time.

01:51:44.000 And unfortunately, sometimes you get it when it's too late.

01:51:48.000 You know what I mean?

01:51:49.000 You really grasp it.

01:51:50.000 And it's just one of them things.

01:51:52.000 Even I was talking with a guy last night, and he brought up, he was originally from South Korea.

01:51:59.000 And he was talking about, he goes there all the time, big business guy.

01:52:02.000 And he says...

01:52:04.000 They actually studied my fight down there.

01:52:06.000 Something on how you can get knocked down.

01:52:09.000 This is more in your field, up your alley.

01:52:12.000 How you get knocked down and what gets a guy to get back up and recover, the recovery, the endurance, to pretty much have your brains rattle but be able to come back that strong rounds later and knock somebody out.

01:52:26.000 And for me, the simple answer is, of course, training hard.

01:52:30.000 Making sure I'm in shape.

01:52:32.000 But I guess what he's trying to figure out is, like, what's the brainwave?

01:52:36.000 What's the mindset?

01:52:37.000 What's the drive that gets you to do that?

01:52:40.000 What is the endurance of the muscles?

01:52:42.000 And, you know, that's pretty deep thinking, Lopez.

01:52:45.000 I think there's a lot there.

01:52:48.000 There's a lot.

01:52:49.000 And there's no one—first of all— Every combination that you get hit with is different.

01:52:54.000 Some combinations you're just not going to get up from.

01:52:56.000 And some of them you're on the border.

01:52:58.000 Can you get up?

01:52:59.000 Can you not get up?

01:53:00.000 How bad do you want it?

01:53:01.000 Maybe you think about your daughter.

01:53:02.000 Maybe you think about your mom.

01:53:03.000 Yeah.

01:53:04.000 And you just get this burst of adrenaline. 1.00

01:53:06.000 You're like, fuck this. 0.99

01:53:07.000 I'm getting up. 1.00

01:53:07.000 Yep. 1.00

01:53:08.000 And the referee gives you the count, and you just fight smart, keep your hands up, and keep moving.

01:53:12.000 The next thing you know, that cardio kicks in, and then you're back.

01:53:15.000 Look at Tyson Fury against Wilder.

01:53:16.000 That's the way I looked at it.

01:53:17.000 That's the simple way of looking at it.

01:53:19.000 Tyson Fury against Wilder, by all rights, that fight should have been done.

01:53:23.000 He lands that right hand, and then that left hook, and you see Tyson Fury go down like he got hit in the head with an asteroid.

01:53:31.000 Boom! 0.99

01:53:32.000 He's just flat on his back. 0.99

01:53:33.000 You're like, holy shit, he knocked him out in the 12th round! 0.98

01:53:36.000 And then... 0.99

01:53:37.000 Everybody thought he did The Undertaker.

01:53:39.000 Yes!

01:53:39.000 It's crazy!

01:53:40.000 The way he sat up.

01:53:41.000 I've seen all the memes and gifs of him sitting up and they showed The Undertaker doing it.

01:53:47.000 With that right there, I think a little different from mine, I personally believe that he wasn't hurt that bad.

01:53:52.000 Really?

01:53:52.000 I believe that he got dropped and that was legit, but he was laying there taking the eight, nine seconds to recover and he got up.

01:54:00.000 I don't think he was out because there's...

01:54:02.000 No real way to be out that cold.

01:54:05.000 I don't know.

01:54:06.000 The hand of Jesus.

01:54:09.000 The hand of Jesus came down upon him.

01:54:12.000 Man, let's watch that knockdown. 0.95

01:54:14.000 Pull up that knockdown. 0.98

01:54:16.000 I feel like that was one of the most fucking brutal right hand, left hook combinations. 0.96

01:54:20.000 When you were talking about that, as far as what's going through your head, it's crazy because when I got knocked down, it was more of an equilibrium shot. 0.97

01:54:27.000 But I could hear, my legs were gone, but I could hear certain people in the stands, and I knew what was going on, and the first thing that was in my head was, man, you worked way too hard to go out like this.

01:54:36.000 So it is that drive.

01:54:37.000 Yeah, here it is right here.

01:54:39.000 What's crazy is that Wilder, look at this, boom!

01:54:43.000 I mean, come on, man. 0.99

01:54:46.000 This dude, he's fucking hurt. 1.00

01:54:51.000 He's fucking hurt. 1.00

01:54:52.000 Something happened. 1.00

01:54:53.000 Jesus came down upon him.

01:54:56.000 That's why I'm saying, I think, I don't know, maybe he was hurt.

01:54:59.000 I mean, he went down pretty bad.

01:55:02.000 He went down quick. 0.99

01:55:03.000 Fucking incredible. 0.99

01:55:03.000 And then his ability to recover. 0.99

01:55:05.000 Yeah.

01:55:05.000 And the fact that...

01:55:06.000 And he's not the best in shape guy either.

01:55:08.000 You don't think so?

01:55:09.000 Well, I mean... 1.00

01:55:10.000 He kept moving for 12 fucking rounds. 0.99

01:55:12.000 Well, yeah, he did do that, but... 0.99

01:55:14.000 To be able to get up that quick?

01:55:16.000 Well, how is he not the best in shape guy?

01:55:17.000 I mean, to be six foot... 0.99

01:55:19.000 That's a fucking crazy knockdown. 0.99

01:55:22.000 And then Wilder does the slip throw. 0.99

01:55:23.000 He's in great shape for a heavyweight.

01:55:26.000 You could put it that way.

01:55:27.000 I see what you're saying.

01:55:28.000 Yeah.

01:55:29.000 Well, no heavyweight is ever going to be in the same kind of shape that, say, a welterweight's going to be in.

01:55:33.000 Just because you're carrying around so much body weight.

01:55:35.000 But I was saying from the point of...

01:55:38.000 Getting up that quick after being dropped and not to be stumbling and falling over.

01:55:43.000 It's true.

01:55:44.000 I mean, he just came back and he was fine.

01:55:46.000 That's why I'm thinking more so like, yeah, he got hurt. 0.99

01:55:48.000 I'm probably wrong on this, but I'm saying like, yeah, he got hurt and he's laying there and he's going, shit, let me just take it. 0.99

01:55:53.000 Let's watch it here. 1.00

01:55:54.000 Here comes that fucking missile. 1.00

01:55:58.000 And then this one. 1.00

01:56:01.000 I mean, come on, son.

01:56:03.000 Timber. 1.00

01:56:04.000 That is some crazy shit. 1.00

01:56:06.000 They said he hit his head, but he did not. 1.00

01:56:08.000 He did not.

01:56:09.000 People say his head bounced off the mat.

01:56:12.000 It never bounced off the mat.

01:56:13.000 He kept his head up as he was going back, which lets you know that he was conscious.

01:56:19.000 But doom and ba-boom. 0.98

01:56:23.000 I mean, he got fucking rocked. 0.98

01:56:25.000 I wish they would have had an overview, because you could tell by the eyes also. 0.99

01:56:29.000 Right, right.

01:56:30.000 Whether or not they're rolled back in his head.

01:56:31.000 Or to the side.

01:56:32.000 Cardio is significant.

01:56:33.000 If you're in great cardio shape, you recover quicker.

01:56:36.000 You know, there's a bunch of different factors in why you recover quicker.

01:56:39.000 Your mindset has to play a factor, right?

01:56:42.000 How bad you want it.

01:56:43.000 That's what I'm saying.

01:56:44.000 I mean, no doubt he was hurt from that punch and he went down.

01:56:47.000 I'm just thinking for that period of time, was he laying there also saying, I'm going to take the full eight, nine to get up?

01:56:53.000 Or, like you said, did a hand come down and touch him?

01:56:56.000 Jesus came upon him and rose from the dead.

01:56:59.000 Yep. 1.00

01:56:59.000 He's just a tough motherfucker, man. 1.00

01:57:01.000 And a good guy, too. 1.00

01:57:02.000 Super fucking smart guy. 0.98

01:57:04.000 Funny. 0.99

01:57:05.000 Yeah, I mean, what a character.

01:57:06.000 And now, when you were training and you were doing your strength and conditioning, were you like an old school method guy?

01:57:14.000 Or did you use heart rate monitors and all the new school methods?

01:57:18.000 No.

01:57:19.000 I like the functional strength training.

01:57:21.000 I did a lot of that.

01:57:22.000 What kind of stuff?

01:57:23.000 I do sledgehammer and entire pushing...

01:57:27.000 Matt Brown has a great...

01:57:29.000 He's got...

01:57:30.000 What is Matt's company?

01:57:32.000 Give his company a plug.

01:57:33.000 I think it's Immortal something, strength and conditioning.

01:57:36.000 But he's got a great bunch of... 0.98

01:57:39.000 He's got sledgehammers with a rounded head so you don't have to fucking swing it around. 0.98

01:57:45.000 Immortal combat equipment. 0.99

01:57:46.000 Immortal combat equipment.

01:57:47.000 He's got a great sled, too, that you stack weights on.

01:57:50.000 And he left a lot of that stuff out there.

01:57:52.000 The war wagon.

01:57:53.000 Yeah, the war wagon.

01:57:54.000 A lot of...

01:57:56.000 Different grip strength apparatus things like balls that you do chin-ups for those balls on the far left.

01:58:04.000 You do chin-ups, grip and those things. 1.00

01:58:06.000 He's got some great shit. 1.00

01:58:07.000 Those are sledgehammers, right? 1.00

01:58:09.000 Yeah, pull-ups, dips, pushing trucks.

01:58:13.000 Man, what else did we get into?

01:58:14.000 I would go to this place called Iron Man Warehouse.

01:58:17.000 And it was kind of a nice setup there, too.

01:58:19.000 And it was more for, like, the gym owner.

01:58:22.000 I love him to death, and he's crazy.

01:58:23.000 He truly is, and he's about 48 now, and he can still run.

01:58:26.000 He runs with the...

01:58:27.000 Matter of fact, at my real title fight against Taylor at the boardwalk, everybody kept talking about...

01:58:35.000 Running on a beach, I think the log was like 120 pounds, just running nonstop.

01:58:41.000 Yeah, real Christian guy, you know, into it, and he does all that.

01:58:44.000 Just running with a log on his back?

01:58:44.000 Yeah, he runs all the peace races with that.

01:58:47.000 Phenomenal shape.

01:58:48.000 Well, you had a place down in a lot of it was the functional strength training.

01:58:51.000 You know, I do pull-ups on fire hoses for the gripping and everything else.

01:58:57.000 That's what I like doing.

01:58:58.000 I wasn't building muscle, but I was getting strong as hell.

01:59:03.000 And I was getting also a lot of cardio work involved in that.

01:59:06.000 But for the most part, it was the strength.

01:59:11.000 There he is.

01:59:13.000 Running around with a log.

01:59:14.000 Here he is. 1.00

01:59:16.000 This motherfucker running around with a log. 1.00

01:59:18.000 That can't be good for your knees. 1.00

01:59:20.000 I wonder how he's walking right now.

01:59:22.000 Like, right now. 0.99

01:59:23.000 I see guys do screwy shit like that. 0.99

01:59:26.000 I go, okay, you can do that right now. 0.99

01:59:27.000 But let me see what you look like in six months.

01:59:30.000 Let me call you back.

01:59:31.000 I'm going to call you back in six months.

01:59:31.000 He's been doing it for a long time.

01:59:32.000 I don't know, though, how he does it.

01:59:34.000 That's so much weight on your joints, to be running with a 120-pound log on your shoulder.

01:59:39.000 He's a freak of nature.

01:59:40.000 I mean, what does that show, the Ninja Warrior or whatever?

01:59:44.000 I truly believe that he could go into that and do very well in that.

01:59:48.000 I mean he at the Ironman warehouse they have the little balls and he swings from each one up there.

01:59:54.000 He takes the 45 pound plates and he throws them up in the air and catches them back coming down.

02:00:00.000 Just crazy things like that and that's where I went to train after the Miranda fight. 0.89

02:00:04.000 I was doing all that shit on my own for the Miranda fight. 0.52

02:00:07.000 And then after the Miranda, he had told me, he goes, Kel, I got this place down here. 0.98

02:00:11.000 Come down and try it out.

02:00:12.000 And I was doing all that crazy stuff, man.

02:00:14.000 And it worked.

02:00:15.000 Again, it was strong.

02:00:16.000 The only thing that I wish I could have went back with that, now as time goes on and I'm training some athletes at my gym, is we have this machine called a Vertimax PC equipment.

02:00:27.000 And it's amazing.

02:00:28.000 I mean, it truly is.

02:00:29.000 You can emulate, more so than you can with the bands, what you're doing.

02:00:34.000 If you're a football player, you know, you can come up.

02:00:36.000 What is it called?

02:00:36.000 Vertamax?

02:00:37.000 Vertamax.

02:00:38.000 See if you can find that.

02:00:39.000 It's amazing.

02:00:40.000 What does it look like?

02:00:41.000 For wrestlers.

02:00:43.000 It's got bands on your back.

02:00:44.000 Are these bands?

02:00:46.000 Like elastic bands?

02:00:47.000 But as, okay, as, no, they're just straps, okay?

02:00:50.000 Yeah.

02:00:51.000 With the rubber band, your tension is usually gone at the beginning, and then you have to get to a certain point to get it, as where this has resistance all the way through.

02:01:00.000 Oh, okay, so it's a pulley system?

02:01:02.000 Oh, it is a pulley system.

02:01:04.000 And you can set the tension on it on the back part.

02:01:06.000 You can pull out and make it a little harder, the tension, but it's unbelievable.

02:01:10.000 So when you go back down, there's tension all the way through from beginning to end.

02:01:14.000 It's for that fast twitch muscle, and a lot of wrestlers are using it.

02:01:18.000 Ooh, I like that.

02:01:20.000 So I wish they had that because adding that in with the functional strength training could have definitely made me a lot better than I think it could for a lot of athletes.

02:01:28.000 That seems like you could do everything with that thing.

02:01:30.000 Yep.

02:01:31.000 That's amazing.

02:01:32.000 Well, they have the Raptor also, which is very good.

02:01:34.000 It's the same concept as that, but you put it up on the fence and you can run out farther and do different things on the Raptor also.

02:01:41.000 With that thing, could you do like shoulder exercises and stuff with it as well?

02:01:45.000 You just have to prop it up?

02:01:47.000 I've been screwing around with it at my gym and I found ways to do flies.

02:01:50.000 Really?

02:01:51.000 On putting a little balance boards.

02:01:55.000 I put that down on it and I get the straps where you can do flies with it.

02:01:58.000 Yeah.

02:01:58.000 Shoulder exercise, core, you know, especially with the Raptor.

02:02:02.000 You can walk out with that.

02:02:03.000 What is the Raptor?

02:02:04.000 It goes on the wall.

02:02:05.000 It's more for like travel.

02:02:07.000 See if you find that thing.

02:02:08.000 So you could put it on the fence at a baseball field and just swing.

02:02:11.000 You could even do golf swings.

02:02:12.000 There it is right there.

02:02:13.000 Yeah.

02:02:14.000 Vertamax Raptor.

02:02:16.000 Oh, wow.

02:02:18.000 Look at that.

02:02:19.000 Golf swing.

02:02:20.000 And can you adjust the tension?

02:02:21.000 Yes.

02:02:22.000 It's just on the back, so you'll pull it.

02:02:23.000 They have little black spots that tell you, you know, it goes up to three spots.

02:02:28.000 That seems like that would be great for punching power as well.

02:02:31.000 It is.

02:02:31.000 And the thing is, you don't want too much tension with that.

02:02:33.000 You know, I try to explain.

02:02:34.000 I got some people that work with guys at my gym on it, and they train them more like an endurance thing.

02:02:39.000 And I tell them, you're defeating the purpose.

02:02:41.000 You know, there's a place and time for strength and endurance, especially a boxer.

02:02:46.000 A guy's running in the morning.

02:02:48.000 He's hitting pads at the gym.

02:02:49.000 I really think that should be focused on the explosion.

02:02:52.000 Don't go until you're tired.

02:02:54.000 I want every rep, every movement to have explosion.

02:02:57.000 Roy Jones Jr. Yeah.

02:03:00.000 Yeah.

02:03:01.000 That's amazing.

02:03:04.000 So it's just enough resistance so that everything that you do just gets essential.

02:03:08.000 And if you put too much resistance, then you're not going to be able to really fire off the fast twitch.

02:03:11.000 Right, right, right.

02:03:12.000 Now the only thing I see also that could hurt people is that they do the whole workout with that.

02:03:17.000 Now what happens is you eventually get tired and fatigued.

02:03:20.000 And then all your motion is slow.

02:03:21.000 So now you fall in the habit of that.

02:03:23.000 I like to work them on it for about 15, 20 minutes.

02:03:27.000 Take them off and then have them do the same exercises with it after with no resistance.

02:03:32.000 And then just keep it that day just with the fast twitch muscle, the small muscle training.

02:03:37.000 And then the next day we go into strength or endurance.

02:03:40.000 So are you training guys?

02:03:42.000 I'm right now powerlifting.

02:03:44.000 Because you own this gym.

02:03:45.000 Yeah, and I have one box.

02:03:46.000 What is the name of your gym?

02:03:46.000 My gym.

02:03:47.000 It's just called MI gym?

02:03:49.000 So we had to change the eye because somebody had my gym.

02:03:52.000 MI gym?

02:03:53.000 So it's me gym.

02:03:54.000 Yeah, me gym.

02:03:55.000 It's me gym.

02:03:56.000 Come on down to me gym, lad.

02:03:58.000 In Spanish, it's my.

02:04:00.000 Yeah.

02:04:00.000 Or in Italian.

02:04:01.000 Yeah, no, I'm doing that with them right now.

02:04:05.000 It's fun working with their strength and conditioning.

02:04:08.000 I am also going to be doing a boxing gym at the end of the summer, hopefully, in Youngstown.

02:04:13.000 It's going to happen.

02:04:14.000 It's just a matter of time.

02:04:15.000 Now, when you were training and you were fighting, did you have a specific schedule of when you would do strength and conditioning and how many days a week you would run, how many days a week you would do physical exercises?

02:04:26.000 Yeah, and that's another thing.

02:04:28.000 As I said earlier, too, you always keep learning.

02:04:32.000 It worked for me for what I did when I was fighting, and I would totally have changed it now, knowing the stuff that I know and being involved in it and researching.

02:04:43.000 We used to run Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday three miles, and then take Thursday off, and then Friday and Saturday.

02:04:49.000 On top of that, I would do my strength and conditioning training, and then I would be at the boxing gym.

02:04:54.000 That's a lot.

02:04:56.000 Yeah.

02:04:56.000 That's a lot on the body, too.

02:04:58.000 When I went to California, we did Monday, Wednesday, Friday running, and it was only two and a half, three miles.

02:05:05.000 And then those days in between, we did the strength and conditioning training.

02:05:09.000 So I didn't have a preference on that.

02:05:11.000 I didn't care.

02:05:12.000 The only thing I did say is I didn't want to run early in the morning.

02:05:15.000 Why is that?

02:05:16.000 Because...

02:05:18.000 I didn't get going.

02:05:19.000 I wasn't one of those guys in the morning, and it happens to people. 0.99

02:05:22.000 If I went and ran too early, I would end up feeling like shit the rest of the day. 0.99

02:05:27.000 Really? 1.00

02:05:28.000 Yeah, just dragging ass. 0.99

02:05:31.000 As where when I went and ran at like 9.30 in the morning, I got my best running, I killed it, and then I felt great the rest of the day. 0.98

02:05:38.000 How much sleep would you make sure you had?

02:05:41.000 That was a tough one.

02:05:42.000 I got about seven to eight hours.

02:05:44.000 Yeah, they say you need eight and you really should try to get ten when you're a professional athlete.

02:05:49.000 I took my Sundays off and I rested all day Sunday and I kind of ate a good amount of carbs and kind of what I wanted to on Sundays, depending on where the weight was out and how far out we were from the fight.

02:06:01.000 But I really don't believe in the theory of you've got to wake your guy up at 4 in the morning and make him run.

02:06:09.000 I don't.

02:06:10.000 If I was training guys, I want my guy to run out whatever I'm going to get the best run out of.

02:06:14.000 That's the time I want him to run.

02:06:16.000 He'll adapt, and especially after he keeps fighting, he'll adapt.

02:06:19.000 It's more mind over body.

02:06:22.000 But I think the gym is non-negotiable.

02:06:25.000 At 3 o'clock I like to train.

02:06:27.000 And if I was training guys, my gym hours would be between 3 and 7. Why do you like late afternoons?

02:06:32.000 Because it gets you closer to the fight night.

02:06:35.000 Especially closer to a fight, I would like actually for my guys to train about 8 o'clock at night, 9 o'clock.

02:06:41.000 Depending on what they have going on in their personal life.

02:06:44.000 So you have like a clock.

02:06:45.000 So your body has like a time that it knows it's going to work.

02:06:48.000 Yeah, and I didn't do that.

02:06:50.000 What did you do?

02:06:50.000 I sparred at four, three.

02:06:53.000 But if I'm talking about me being a trainer, I would like that for my fighters.

02:06:58.000 So what you've learned from your career, you just apply it.

02:07:01.000 The only thing I would really take from it would be the running in the morning.

02:07:06.000 If my guy wanted to say, hey coach, I'd rather run after the gym tonight.

02:07:10.000 And I knew that that was going to make a difference in a minute on his miles.

02:07:14.000 Okay?

02:07:15.000 Run at night.

02:07:16.000 Because I want him to get the best run possible.

02:07:17.000 Right.

02:07:18.000 You know, that's most important.

02:07:19.000 Did you run for speed?

02:07:21.000 Did you do sprints?

02:07:22.000 Did you do long distance running?

02:07:23.000 Like, what kind of running did you do?

02:07:25.000 I did do sprints.

02:07:26.000 We added.

02:07:26.000 I wish we could have done more.

02:07:27.000 But, you know, I was big with the steps, too.

02:07:30.000 And we have, yeah, Youngstown State University in Youngstown.

02:07:33.000 And I got one side that's pretty big.

02:07:35.000 It's steep.

02:07:36.000 You know, and it goes up.

02:07:37.000 And I would do that probably about three times at camp.

02:07:40.000 For a unbeliever, you've got to watch how many times you do that throughout a camp because it builds muscle, especially running that high, doing the steps. 0.96

02:07:46.000 And then when you start cutting the weight and you've got to get down, it's going to be hard to lose that extra pound, which can make a big difference come fight night.

02:07:53.000 So for a six-, eight-week camp, you would only run it three times?

02:07:55.000 About three times, yeah.

02:07:57.000 Interesting.

02:07:57.000 Then I had sprints on the hills, and I did regular sprints because regular sprints is firing that fast twitch muscle, and it's also hitting that big muscle, and it's building the legs and strength.

02:08:07.000 um distance was was important but still another big one to me is the pad work you know the training at the gym i'm not a big fan of bag work anybody hitting the punching bag how come because uh you learn how to manipulate the bag and you learn how to uh trick your your trainer and everybody else i could go hit a bag right now and probably do 10 rounds on it you know just because i know how hard to punch it's hard to tell as to where when you're hitting pads i know how hard my guys punch and And I'm giving him the combos and

02:08:37.000 the numbers.

02:08:37.000 So he has no time.

02:08:39.000 He has to think.

02:08:39.000 He has to concentrate on what you want him to do.

02:08:41.000 And he's not throwing the punches that he wants.

02:08:43.000 Right.

02:08:43.000 You know what I mean?

02:08:44.000 So it's easier.

02:08:45.000 I mean, it's harder than hitting the bag.

02:08:48.000 I think that's a big part of the training.

02:08:50.000 I would do it with the guys and it makes a big difference overall.

02:08:55.000 Did you do a lot of drills in terms of movement drills, movement drills with combinations?

02:09:03.000 Not at home either.

02:09:06.000 I didn't when I trained in Youngstown.

02:09:08.000 No?

02:09:09.000 No.

02:09:11.000 I learned a lot of that when I went to California.

02:09:13.000 From Garcia?

02:09:14.000 Yeah.

02:09:16.000 Is that one of the reasons why you were saying, man, it was amazing that I could learn so great?

02:09:20.000 Yeah, because I was cocky. 0.98

02:09:21.000 I'm going, what the fuck are they going to show me after 12 years of being a pro? 0.98

02:09:25.000 He's an awesome trainer. 0.98

02:09:26.000 Yeah, I was cocky when I'm like, I got all these fights and I was a great amateur.

02:09:31.000 What more can you show me?

02:09:33.000 And I went out there and I learned.

02:09:35.000 You can't be taught.

02:09:37.000 Taking nothing away from Jack and my trainer at home, that guy, he got me ready though.

02:09:43.000 If you're fighting, I was in shape.

02:09:45.000 He was like a drill sergeant on that.

02:09:48.000 Another little thing on that with the running, you know, cement, I think now I would have my guys run on grass, track, even if it's boring.

02:09:55.000 I don't care if you're bored running, you know, you're going to run around the track.

02:09:57.000 It's easier on the joints and less demand on the body.

02:10:03.000 So overall, I mean, there's a lot.

02:10:04.000 That's why I like it.

02:10:05.000 That's why I like being involved right now with the strength and conditioning gym.

02:10:09.000 Because I'm working with people, getting them healthy, helping them out.

02:10:12.000 And eventually I could add a lot of this to my fighters, you know?

02:10:15.000 Yeah, there's a long education when it comes to physical fitness.

02:10:19.000 A long education in understanding how much is too much, when's the right time to do things.

02:10:24.000 And that's one of the reasons why I was asking you, like...

02:10:26.000 How did you decide if you were going to do three times over the course of a training camp, you're going to run those stairs?

02:10:33.000 How did you decide that?

02:10:34.000 Was that a strength and conditioning coach that decided that?

02:10:36.000 No, that was me.

02:10:37.000 You decided it.

02:10:37.000 Yes, because I didn't want the muscle.

02:10:39.000 You put some weight on you.

02:10:41.000 Yeah.

02:10:41.000 Come time when you're starting to dry out, you're going to wish that you kind of didn't.

02:10:45.000 But I always was...

02:10:47.000 Afraid in the back.

02:10:48.000 I was second guessing my conditioning.

02:10:50.000 So I always wanted to be strong.

02:10:53.000 And again, the stuff like that Vertamax, that wasn't out yet.

02:10:56.000 We had the bands, and we do some of the exercises on that.

02:10:59.000 I never researched much at that time either.

02:11:02.000 I was in great shape, and I was strong as a mule.

02:11:04.000 But there was other things like being athletic.

02:11:07.000 I started eventually towards the end doing some cross training.

02:11:10.000 You said you're a big fan of that.

02:11:11.000 Yeah.

02:11:12.000 I absolutely am also.

02:11:13.000 I think becoming a great athlete overall, there's nothing wrong with that.

02:11:16.000 And it's fun.

02:11:18.000 It breaks up the monotony of the same training regimen all the time.

02:11:22.000 Do you remember when they didn't want you to lift weights?

02:11:25.000 They didn't want boxers to lift weights?

02:11:27.000 Like before Mackie Shillstone, before he worked with Michael Spinks, when he moved up to heavyweight and fought Larry Holmes.

02:11:35.000 I mean, remember people were saying like, they don't want...

02:11:39.000 Boxers to lift weights, that it's going to tighten you up and slow you down.

02:11:43.000 That was the thought process behind it.

02:11:45.000 And then from him, and then in particular Holyfield, when Holyfield went from cruiserweight to heavyweight, and he put on a lot of mass, that was Mackie Shilstone too, right?

02:11:53.000 Yeah.

02:11:53.000 Yeah, I mean, that just changed the game.

02:11:59.000 Jamie?

02:12:00.000 That's your guy, but I don't want to make him have to keep searching things.

02:12:03.000 Oh, he loves it.

02:12:03.000 If you could put in Kelly Pavlik workouts, training.

02:12:09.000 We had a guy, too, with weight.

02:12:11.000 I did do weightlifting.

02:12:12.000 When I was fighting.

02:12:14.000 And I do agree with weightlifting and I don't agree with it.

02:12:17.000 I don't think you should go heavy with the weightlifting.

02:12:20.000 If you're going to get your strength, I absolutely...

02:12:23.000 Look how thin you are, man. 1.00

02:12:25.000 Slim bastard. 1.00

02:12:27.000 Yeah, training at Rockies or something like that. 1.00

02:12:30.000 That was California.

02:12:31.000 Yeah, there you go, that second one.

02:12:35.000 Yeah, see the lightweight?

02:12:36.000 Yeah.

02:12:37.000 We would do hundreds and hundreds of reps.

02:12:39.000 Just endurance stuff.

02:12:41.000 Yeah, just burning.

02:12:42.000 When you look at yourself without all the tattoos, do you go, huh, look at all that blank canvas.

02:12:47.000 Look at those arms.

02:12:49.000 But you look at those arms now, you're probably embarrassed.

02:12:51.000 Those gigantic tree trunks you're packing now. 0.95

02:12:53.000 No, yeah, but those things kick ass. 1.00

02:12:55.000 Those things will fuck your head up. 1.00

02:12:57.000 Yeah, exactly. 0.99

02:12:59.000 I don't know if I have to snap on it now like I had then.

02:13:03.000 So the weights, stuff like that, I totally agree with because it is great for muscle endurance.

02:13:08.000 And if you're going to get the strength, I go back to the functional training for that.

02:13:11.000 I don't think a boxer or a combat...

02:13:14.000 It might be a little different with UFC guy, MMA fighters.

02:13:17.000 Because of the wrestling.

02:13:18.000 The wrestling and everything else.

02:13:19.000 And that will come down to having somebody that really knows.

02:13:23.000 Like I said, you never stop learning in it.

02:13:25.000 But for me, with my guys, yeah, endurance training like that, that's great.

02:13:29.000 And you could even switch that in with some functional endurance training too.

02:13:33.000 You know, one thing we used to do at Ironman, stand there and get a heavy chain.

02:13:37.000 And arms locked out for the front delts and turn it, turn it, you know, for the endurance to it for a period of time.

02:13:43.000 So there's just a lot of things that you could add in.

02:13:45.000 And I think, you know, everybody goes, well, you don't overtrain them.

02:13:48.000 And that's another thing.

02:13:49.000 Like the body, it's really hard to overtrain.

02:13:52.000 I mean, the only way you could really overtrain is if you're not getting the right nutrition and you're not getting the right rest, you know.

02:13:59.000 Yeah.

02:13:59.000 Or if you push too hard and you don't give yourself enough recovery time and you push it too close to a fight.

02:14:04.000 Yeah.

02:14:04.000 Or if your camp's too long and you don't get enough rest period in between.

02:14:08.000 That's a big one, the too long a camp.

02:14:10.000 You know, Tim Sylvia, or not Tim Sylvia, Tim Kennedy, who's a big, who was for one time, at one point, he retired now, but he was one of the top middleweight contenders.

02:14:20.000 He went through two camps in a row because one of his fights got canceled, rolled right into his camp and then fought, and then had no endurance in his fight.

02:14:27.000 You could kind of tell that he was drained.

02:14:29.000 It was just too long.

02:14:30.000 It was like six or seven months of really being in camp, something along those lines.

02:14:35.000 And probably in the lines of somewhere, the nutritionist, it could come down on a person like that.

02:14:41.000 Is he getting enough of the sources?

02:14:44.000 It's also cutting a lot of weight.

02:14:45.000 Exactly.

02:14:46.000 So dehydration, everything else.

02:14:48.000 Yeah.

02:14:50.000 Yeah, and it's hard.

02:14:51.000 I mean, you've got to find if you're going to bring somebody in.

02:14:53.000 I was fortunate. 0.98

02:14:54.000 My dad, you know, we kind of kicked ass on that. 0.56

02:14:56.000 We had a little science, you know, broken down to a science, and we made weight good, and we were strong. 0.76

02:15:04.000 Did you monitor your heart rate ever?

02:15:06.000 No.

02:15:07.000 I didn't.

02:15:07.000 Just felt how you felt.

02:15:08.000 Yeah.

02:15:09.000 You know, like, did you write down, like, what different kinds of exercises you were doing in workouts, or did you play it all by heart?

02:15:15.000 Yeah, and I still do that.

02:15:16.000 I still put that in my, even weightlifting.

02:15:19.000 Really?

02:15:19.000 Yeah, I feel like when you write down, you limit yourself.

02:15:23.000 How so?

02:15:24.000 Because if I go in, I see guys all the time, not knocking at everybody, but I see them come in with their little notepad, and they have what they got, and I see them go over and they do literally only four sets on the bench, and they write down what they did, and then they go over and do some dumbbells, or same with the squats.

02:15:39.000 I feel you're limiting yourself.

02:15:40.000 I mean, you didn't work that muscle To, you know, failure.

02:15:45.000 And you should most of the time.

02:15:47.000 Because if not, that becomes maintaining.

02:15:49.000 You're not breaking down the muscle fibers, you know, and for it to recoup.

02:15:53.000 I feel, you know, when you go and lift, I'm not saying every exact time you have to kill it.

02:15:57.000 But when I go in, I want to do either a little bit heavier or more reps than I did last time.

02:16:04.000 You know what I mean?

02:16:05.000 For me to get to the point where I want to get and it has worked for me.

02:16:08.000 I do.

02:16:09.000 I feel like when you write down, the only time I do write things down is if I'm doing a chart.

02:16:14.000 I'll go through that chart and then when I finish with it, I finish out with so many reps in that same percentile of my PR. You know what I mean?

02:16:23.000 And I'll go down.

02:16:24.000 Now, then I have a speed day, an endurance day.

02:16:28.000 And that's when I rep out and I do sometimes up to 300 reps, you know, on the body part and speed and endurance.

02:16:34.000 And then before I even do that, I work on, say, if it's bench or squats, I get the bands.

02:16:39.000 And I have my guys do no more than six reps and it all got to be explosion because that helps in powerlifting for that one rep max, you know, the explosion off.

02:16:48.000 So it comes down, you know, and that's my theory on it.

02:16:51.000 A lot of people, you know, do it.

02:16:53.000 And then you got guys who do write down though.

02:16:55.000 Do you think there's any benefit in the kind of lifting that you're doing now for a boxer?

02:17:00.000 I think right now, if you have the time, yeah, it could help.

02:17:03.000 If you had time in between camps.

02:17:04.000 Yeah, if you had time to get that big or get that strong for maybe two months of heavy.

02:17:09.000 But I also think that you need a good period of time of no heavy lifting.

02:17:13.000 To recover before you start really boxing.

02:17:15.000 So your body's going to be used to it, muscle memory.

02:17:18.000 You're not going to lose all that strength because you're not just stopping the power lifting and not doing anything.

02:17:23.000 It seems like a real guessing game, or at least an experiment.

02:17:27.000 I wouldn't try it if I was active.

02:17:30.000 And I had an active fighter.

02:17:31.000 But yeah, I would like to see somebody try that eventually one day.

02:17:35.000 You never know.

02:17:36.000 They're always coming out with something.

02:17:37.000 They're always debunking some other, you know, you have to do this.

02:17:41.000 And my favorite thing is where I get in about the training when people say, you can't do this two days a week.

02:17:46.000 You can't bench or squat.

02:17:48.000 Look at your guys and Joe.

02:17:51.000 Oh, they do every day.

02:17:52.000 Lift weights.

02:17:53.000 Yeah, lift weights. 0.99

02:17:54.000 And eat shitty food. 0.98

02:17:55.000 They don't have the supplements that we have. 0.99

02:17:58.000 They can't take a protein powder drink and BCAs.

02:18:02.000 And they're not small.

02:18:04.000 They're huge.

02:18:05.000 They're jacked.

02:18:05.000 They're lifting every day.

02:18:08.000 So, I don't know.

02:18:10.000 Well, are you familiar with Pavel Tazzolini?

02:18:14.000 Yes.

02:18:15.000 Wasn't it a guy also with the kettlebells?

02:18:17.000 Yeah.

02:18:19.000 He's got some interesting thoughts about strength training in particular because he's one of those guys, he believes you should do more rest in between reps, less reps, and you should do it more often. 0.97

02:18:33.000 So instead of like one brutal workout a week where you break your body down and you walk like you're getting fucked in the ass by a rhino for two days, instead of that... 0.95

02:18:43.000 You work out with less repetitions. 0.99

02:18:46.000 Don't go to failure, but do it two or three times a week.

02:18:49.000 You get more repetitions overall over the end of the week, but you'll be able to recover better, and you never get that full breakdown, but your body gets just as strong or stronger.

02:18:58.000 I've seen that and actually I was reading on that and I was going to put that into my program.

02:19:04.000 And I read a lot of them.

02:19:06.000 I see like Simmons with Westside.

02:19:09.000 They got some great ideas.

02:19:10.000 When it comes to lifting weights and powerlifting, there's only so much.

02:19:14.000 Somebody's got it from somebody.

02:19:15.000 Do you know what I mean?

02:19:16.000 Like Westside, they were big with the Russian Olympic team and everything else.

02:19:19.000 There's only so much you could do.

02:19:21.000 There's only so many programs you could do where you're not tapping in and copying off this person's...

02:19:26.000 I think adding that in, there's nothing wrong with that either now.

02:19:29.000 Now changing it up after a while and shocking that body, I think that actually helps you get stronger and changing the program a little bit.

02:19:37.000 But, you know, if that works, I don't know.

02:19:39.000 And that's something that I may try one day because I'm doing powerlifting, but powerlifting ain't going to be my vacation home in Hawaii.

02:19:45.000 You're just doing the powerlifting for a group?

02:19:47.000 Yeah, for fun.

02:19:48.000 You know, it was something that was fun.

02:19:51.000 And I got guys who I got involved with, a buddy of mine, actually a coach, on, you know, certain days of the week.

02:19:56.000 We work on the heavy.

02:19:57.000 Lonnie Atkins, he's great.

02:19:59.000 He's a...

02:20:00.000 Six, seven-time world champion, powerlifting, drug-free, you know, federations like RAW and WMPF. And that's what I'm in because I feel like, you know, I'm not knocking the other people that use the steroids and stuff,

02:20:15.000 but for me, I like going the natural route and, you know, it's funner.

02:20:20.000 Especially if you think about fighting again.

02:20:22.000 Because if you do, you don't want to fuck up your endocrine system.

02:20:25.000 Well, that's where I really turned against it also is because of the boxing.

02:20:29.000 Yeah.

02:20:29.000 You know what I mean?

02:20:32.000 I don't want to make anybody too mad, but when people use it, I feel like you're taken away, and I do feel like it's cheating.

02:20:38.000 I tell people in the gym, my gym, you know, there are certain people in there that do it, and they try to come over and tell people how to work out, and it's kind of like, listen, your working out is totally different than this guy's, and what you do to get big is totally different, all because of that reason.

02:20:53.000 Yeah.

02:20:53.000 It is.

02:20:53.000 It truly is.

02:20:55.000 Especially powerlifting.

02:20:56.000 Exactly.

02:20:56.000 And I got guys right now that are freaks of nature that do it, and you can tell that they're not on it because if they are, then they have to have a long talk with their dealer.

02:21:04.000 You know what I mean?

02:21:05.000 One of those type things.

02:21:07.000 But I like doing it because, for me, it's not cheating.

02:21:12.000 And also, I like the fact of when I hit a plateau...

02:21:15.000 I look, it's more fun for me to go through and research things and look at like, how do I get out of that?

02:21:20.000 And what's good nutrition that helps naturally raise this or raise that, you know what I mean?

02:21:26.000 And different workout routines, like the board work chains, you know, add that all in.

02:21:31.000 So that's where it comes fun for me also.

02:21:34.000 Yeah, do you get your blood work done or anything like that?

02:21:37.000 I did get a blood panel last year.

02:21:39.000 Just last year, huh?

02:21:40.000 Yeah.

02:21:41.000 That's it?

02:21:41.000 Yeah, and it came back good.

02:21:42.000 You don't get normal ones, regular ones?

02:21:43.000 Nah, I'm afraid, though, man.

02:21:45.000 I'm getting to that age. 1.00

02:21:46.000 I don't want that shit coming back. 1.00

02:21:49.000 It's bad. 1.00

02:21:49.000 You don't want to know? 1.00

02:21:50.000 Yeah.

02:21:51.000 Hell, if I start feeling it, then I'll go.

02:21:54.000 No, but you should, too.

02:21:56.000 I recommend it to everybody and every athlete.

02:21:59.000 They should.

02:22:00.000 And eventually, my time is to go back soon, also.

02:22:02.000 Yeah, I think it's a really important thing.

02:22:04.000 I think everybody should do it on a regular basis.

02:22:06.000 I really do.

02:22:07.000 I know you don't want to know about anything bad, but you do.

02:22:10.000 No, but you have to.

02:22:11.000 If there really was something funky going on, and you went to the doctor, and the doctor's like, Kelly, these numbers are bad. 0.98

02:22:17.000 We've got to do some more tests and see what the fuck's happening. 0.94

02:22:22.000 Especially with all these different diets that people are getting on. 0.99

02:22:24.000 I'm seeing horrific things.

02:22:26.000 I had a brother-in-law from a certain diet, a keto diet.

02:22:30.000 What happened to him?

02:22:31.000 Fatty liver, this.

02:22:32.000 Because he's not, you don't drink.

02:22:34.000 What?

02:22:35.000 A keto diet?

02:22:36.000 That's what I'm hearing.

02:22:37.000 Well, if you really look at it, I mean, you're eating the fat, all that fat. 1.00

02:22:41.000 Shit's good for you. 1.00

02:22:42.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:22:43.000 But if that's all your body got to burn.

02:22:46.000 What happens with people where it does get dangerous is, first of all, if you have certain genes, certain people it's just not the best diet for.

02:22:55.000 And it's a lot of trial and error to find out. 0.52

02:22:59.000 But it's also, if you engage in a high-fat content diet, but you also have high-carbohydrate, Which is where a lot of people cheat and fuck up. 0.91

02:23:07.000 That's not good. 0.96

02:23:09.000 That's not good for you.

02:23:10.000 You've got to get your body into ketosis.

02:23:13.000 If you don't get your body into ketosis and you're taking this high-level fat and high-level carbs, it's just not a good combination.

02:23:21.000 You know what I do on it.

02:23:22.000 If you come off of it, you can't just indulge into the carbs either, right?

02:23:26.000 Don't you slowly work that back into that?

02:23:28.000 Your body always knows how to process carbs.

02:23:31.000 It's more difficult to get your body fat-adapted, but once your body does get fat-adapted, what I've found is I'm not on a ketogenic diet right now, but when I've been on it, I can get back in it pretty quick.

02:23:44.000 But it takes a while.

02:23:45.000 The first time I did it, It took a solid two weeks before I felt normal. 0.99

02:23:51.000 For two weeks, I was dragging ass. 0.98

02:23:52.000 It was hard to stick through it. 0.99

02:23:54.000 I didn't want to stick through it. 0.99

02:23:55.000 I'm just going to have a fucking apple and a bowl of pasta and blow this diet off. 0.99

02:24:00.000 But if you get through it, then you feel your body switch over. 0.99

02:24:04.000 When you feel your body switch over, what happens is...

02:24:07.000 You have more even energy throughout the day, less tired, no crash in the middle of the day.

02:24:13.000 But I do have to say it took a long time before my workouts felt like I could have the same intensity.

02:24:18.000 Intensity.

02:24:19.000 I would die off quicker.

02:24:20.000 And that's how I look at even some of those, what do you call it, intermittent dietings too?

02:24:25.000 Intermittent fasting, yeah.

02:24:26.000 Fasting, yeah.

02:24:27.000 Like when you're drying out and you're not eating in that period, I wouldn't recommend working out at that time.

02:24:34.000 Powerlifting or strength training.

02:24:36.000 Yeah, I think that's a different kind of animal.

02:24:38.000 Yeah, because now you're tearing down the muscles and everything else.

02:24:42.000 Maybe some cardio wouldn't hurt.

02:24:44.000 Listen, that's what I'm saying.

02:24:46.000 I'm not knocking all of them.

02:24:47.000 And my brother-in-law, the doctor told him they think that's what it was from.

02:24:51.000 Now, granted, that could be because he messed up on a diet somewhere along the line, you know, eating.

02:24:57.000 I had a doctor, a buddy also, that got fatty liver from eating too much of the meat.

02:25:02.000 And again, that could have been grass-fed or steroid-type meat makes a difference.

02:25:07.000 I don't even know if that does cause a die.

02:25:12.000 I'm sure it does. 0.99

02:25:13.000 Yeah, and me personally, I'm not knocking any of it because pretty soon I've got to try some shit myself. 0.99

02:25:19.000 You know what I mean? 0.97

02:25:20.000 I gotta start losing weight again.

02:25:22.000 Well, did you start eating like crazy because of the power lifting?

02:25:25.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:25:25.000 Those guys eat like fucking savages. 1.00

02:25:28.000 And now they're also coming out to where you can eat right and lose weight and still be strong. 1.00

02:25:35.000 Me, yeah, I started eating like that.

02:25:36.000 And then it really...

02:25:37.000 I'll tell you where it gets me.

02:25:39.000 So I was never a real big sweet tooth eater.

02:25:43.000 I'd eat a piece of cake or a candy bar here and there.

02:25:46.000 I'd have like total throughout the day one can of pop.

02:25:49.000 I'd drink a half a can in the morning...

02:25:50.000 Or an afternoon, then at night.

02:25:52.000 Pop for people who didn't grow up. 0.99

02:25:54.000 In Ohio.

02:25:55.000 Oh, yeah.

02:25:56.000 It's soda.

02:25:57.000 Okay.

02:25:58.000 Coca-Cola, Pepsi, you know.

02:26:00.000 Sorry.

02:26:01.000 You a pop guy?

02:26:02.000 Columbus, man.

02:26:03.000 Yeah, pop.

02:26:03.000 There you go.

02:26:04.000 Ohio in the house.

02:26:05.000 Yes.

02:26:05.000 And that's right.

02:26:07.000 Yeah, we talked about that.

02:26:09.000 And that's what I would do.

02:26:10.000 So it wasn't that bad, but it was still enough sugar. 0.99

02:26:12.000 That's a lot of fucking sugar. 0.99

02:26:14.000 Yeah, and then the one meet, I was doing a 220-pound weight class. 0.99

02:26:19.000 I was 232. And my guy was like, you ain't going to make it in six days to get down to 220. And I kind of like, I chuckled at that because I had to make 160 before.

02:26:29.000 So I got all this fat sitting on me.

02:26:30.000 You're going to tell me I can't lose that in six days.

02:26:33.000 I bet.

02:26:34.000 And this is for powerlifting?

02:26:35.000 Yeah.

02:26:36.000 So I got down with that and I was doing it.

02:26:38.000 I watched what I, I didn't even do hardly any cardio for that.

02:26:41.000 And I still got down fairly easy to 220. Then, now where I'm falling into this bad habit is I'll have like a piece of cheesecake sitting in the refrigerator.

02:26:52.000 Okay?

02:26:52.000 I know and I love cheesecake.

02:26:54.000 Me too.

02:26:54.000 That's one of my favorites.

02:26:55.000 It's a good one.

02:26:56.000 And it would be two cans of pop left.

02:26:59.000 Alright?

02:26:59.000 And my whole thing is I can't start watching because I don't want to say diet.

02:27:04.000 I start saying watching what I eat.

02:27:06.000 And I go, I can't do that until it's gone.

02:27:09.000 I can't have that.

02:27:10.000 I know.

02:27:11.000 It's weird.

02:27:11.000 I'm telling you, I can't start it until it's gone.

02:27:13.000 But you can't throw it away.

02:27:14.000 I can't throw it away.

02:27:15.000 Why can't you throw it away?

02:27:17.000 Because there's only one piece left and I don't want to do that.

02:27:21.000 And then the next thing I know, my sister-in-law, who's a hell of a baker, she makes something for the kids or makes me a homemade cheesecake. 0.98

02:27:28.000 And the next thing I know, I'm back into the same thing again.

02:27:32.000 Now, let me tell you something else that contributes to this.

02:27:36.000 I think all the years of fighting and having to watch my weight, especially for me to get down to 160, and even when I was fighting at 47 in the amateurs, my life was pretty much running.

02:27:49.000 It was a job.

02:27:50.000 It was time.

02:27:51.000 Somebody was there.

02:27:52.000 I just couldn't go run.

02:27:53.000 I had to run it so fast, and I was being timed for it in the distance.

02:27:56.000 I had to watch what I was eating.

02:27:57.000 I had people over me watching what I was eating. 1.00

02:28:00.000 And when I retired, I was like, fuck this, man. 0.99

02:28:02.000 I'm free. 0.99

02:28:03.000 You know what I mean?

02:28:04.000 And I sometimes put that in the back of my head.

02:28:07.000 I shouldn't, but I put it in the back of my head like, man, you deserve this, man.

02:28:10.000 Screw it.

02:28:11.000 You did that all these years.

02:28:13.000 But now it's coming to the point, too, like, You are getting a little older. 1.00

02:28:17.000 You look a little bit like shit other than your arms. 0.99

02:28:19.000 Like, you're going to have to start hitting a treadmill. 1.00

02:28:22.000 You know what I mean?

02:28:22.000 It's one of those type things where...

02:28:24.000 If you just cut the sugar out, man.

02:28:25.000 Yeah.

02:28:26.000 And it works.

02:28:27.000 And I don't want to hear people say that they can't lose weight.

02:28:29.000 Now, that will only work for a certain period of time until that, like, levels out.

02:28:34.000 That's when you start tweaking the calorie intake and everything else.

02:28:36.000 Right, but you can lose a lot of weight if you just cut out the sugar.

02:28:39.000 Yeah, you can.

02:28:40.000 Yeah.

02:28:40.000 So that's what I mean.

02:28:41.000 I don't want to hear people say it's hard.

02:28:43.000 So I'm eventually, you know, I said when I get home from this trip, because like last night I went out with my buddy and we ate pizzas and stuff like that.

02:28:52.000 So, you know, I don't have the access to healthy food right now.

02:28:56.000 Right, while you're on the road?

02:28:57.000 Yeah.

02:28:57.000 There's plenty of places in LA you can eat healthy.

02:28:59.000 I know there is.

02:28:59.000 How dare you?

02:29:00.000 How dare you say you can't eat healthy here?

02:29:02.000 That's the mindset, man.

02:29:03.000 I know.

02:29:03.000 Yeah, the mindset.

02:29:05.000 You know, the thing about a lot of great fighters is they're very impulsive, too.

02:29:09.000 Yeah.

02:29:10.000 It's just... 1.00

02:29:11.000 That fuck it, fuck it mentality, that sometimes carries over to eating as well. 1.00

02:29:16.000 Look at a lot of your retired fighters. 1.00

02:29:18.000 Yeah, they blow up.

02:29:21.000 Again, I keep saying, I'm not bragging or anything, but here I'm fairly decent.

02:29:27.000 You know what I mean?

02:29:28.000 I think at least you enjoy working out. 0.99

02:29:30.000 I think some guys, they got to a point where they worked out so hard for camps that when it's over, they don't want to do shit. 0.98

02:29:36.000 They're just like, I'm done. 0.99

02:29:38.000 It's over.

02:29:39.000 No desire.

02:29:39.000 No drive.

02:29:40.000 Well, that's why cardio is very rare for me right now.

02:29:44.000 And, you know, I used to say this too all the time.

02:29:46.000 After a fight, I have probably two, three weeks off.

02:29:49.000 And there was a place called Mill Creek Park, and a lot of people go to run and exercise and stuff like that.

02:29:54.000 And there's a main street that goes past the park, and you see people riding the bike and running.

02:29:59.000 And I'll never forget, my wife actually started laughing. 0.96

02:30:01.000 I just got done with a fight, and we're driving past Mill Creek Park, and these people are out running. 1.00

02:30:06.000 And I go, what idiots. 1.00

02:30:07.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:30:09.000 Who gets up and go runs?

02:30:13.000 That's hilarious.

02:30:14.000 Chances are, if I didn't have to do it like that, I didn't have somebody hounding me or over me while I was running, chances are I would actually like running and I would like doing cardio and adding that into my training.

02:30:24.000 But because it was a job for all the mirrors from nine years old to 30 years old, It was like, screw this, man.

02:30:31.000 I don't want to run. 0.91

02:30:32.000 The only way you'll get me to run is if there's a fire or a big-ass dog behind me.

02:30:35.000 That's the only way.

02:30:37.000 Or if I want to run to the buffet table.

02:30:39.000 I know some people do it every day.

02:30:41.000 They get up in the morning every day before work, and they'll put in five, six miles every day.

02:30:45.000 And it's reality.

02:30:46.000 You have to.

02:30:47.000 You got to anymore.

02:30:48.000 Unless you want to be out of shape and miserable, I think it's great to actually start working out.

02:30:54.000 And even for me, I'm lifting weights and it's fun and it's considered exercising.

02:30:59.000 And now with what I'm thinking of doing and everything else, I got to start getting into that.

02:31:06.000 Hitting the bag and everything's fun and I'm hitting the pads and that's cardio. 0.99

02:31:10.000 I mean, that shit's really cardio. 0.97

02:31:12.000 But if you're really thinking about fighting, and you said more than 60%, right? 0.99

02:31:16.000 Yeah.

02:31:17.000 80%?

02:31:18.000 I would say between around 70 to 80. That's a lot.

02:31:21.000 That is.

02:31:22.000 That is.

02:31:23.000 But again, and I'm strongly going to say this, there's a lot that goes behind a lot more to think about also.

02:31:31.000 Because what I don't want is in six months when I say, you know what?

02:31:36.000 No, I don't want the backlash for it.

02:31:38.000 Right. 1.00

02:31:39.000 He's fucked up again. 1.00

02:31:40.000 You know what I mean? 1.00

02:31:41.000 One of those.

02:31:42.000 Unfortunately, that's the way it goes.

02:31:43.000 It does. 1.00

02:31:44.000 But you gotta not read that shit. 1.00

02:31:46.000 I know, but unfortunately, it really is. 1.00

02:31:48.000 Do you read comments?

02:31:50.000 I try not to, and you catch them.

02:31:52.000 And you get them.

02:31:53.000 I try not to.

02:31:55.000 It's... 1.00

02:31:56.000 It seems like the boxing world in particular has a lot of fucking haters. 0.99

02:32:00.000 But you know what? 0.99

02:32:01.000 It's nothing like football.

02:32:03.000 Like, if a fighter loses...

02:32:04.000 I was watching Barstool Sports Instagram. 1.00

02:32:08.000 They got some fucking guy leaving a football game screaming and yelling. 0.99

02:32:12.000 I'm like, this guy is what I think about when I think of douched out sports fans. 1.00

02:32:17.000 This guy fucking screaming about somebody not being able to make a kick. 0.98

02:32:21.000 You know what I'm talking about? 1.00

02:32:23.000 That guy's going crazy.

02:32:24.000 It's so funny.

02:32:26.000 I love it.

02:32:27.000 I love hearing when I was playing football and when I was in high school, when you're watching these big games, and you'll see it on social, or I'll be at a buddy's house and I see, yeah, well, I would have made that. 0.99

02:32:38.000 Get the fuck out of here. 0.99

02:32:40.000 Right. 1.00

02:32:40.000 People love saying stupid shit like that. 1.00

02:32:42.000 Like, how many times has anybody given you boxing advice? 1.00

02:32:45.000 Oh, I have people that don't know the difference between a left hook and a fishing hook.

02:32:48.000 I swear to God, they don't.

02:32:50.000 Why didn't you just hit them? 0.97

02:32:52.000 Because. 0.99

02:32:53.000 You should have got up and hit him. 0.98

02:32:54.000 This TMZ material. 0.78

02:32:56.000 No, but I mean, like they're saying to you, why didn't you just hit him?

02:33:01.000 I don't know.

02:33:01.000 You know, I've seen that episode that was the funniest.

02:33:04.000 I think it was on one of your episodes with Charlie Murphy and they were doing the Mike Tyson and like the De La Hoya situation that happened.

02:33:11.000 Like the guy said he could beat up De La Hoya.

02:33:13.000 And actually, I wish that could happen on a regular basis.

02:33:16.000 You know, like call people out on it when you're in front of somebody.

02:33:19.000 How many times I hear people say like, I could have beat him.

02:33:22.000 And it's like, why is he sitting on like $25 million and you're over here picking up UPS shipments?

02:33:30.000 You know what I mean?

02:33:30.000 Like there's a difference for a reason.

02:33:32.000 Nobody's knocking what you do, but you shouldn't knock what he's doing.

02:33:36.000 Well, you're delusional.

02:33:37.000 You are. 0.87

02:33:38.000 People are delusional. 1.00

02:33:39.000 For whatever reason, especially when it comes to sports and fighting in particular, people just say some unbelievably delusional shit. 0.99

02:33:47.000 I don't know why, and I truly don't, and I don't understand it. 0.97

02:33:51.000 And I never get into the argument long enough to even ask the question. 0.98

02:33:54.000 Well, when was the last time you went on somebody else's page and commented on shit? 0.98

02:33:58.000 I can't tell you. 0.99

02:33:59.000 Yeah, because you're a world champion.

02:34:00.000 Yeah, and that's another reason.

02:34:02.000 Hey, listen, you know what?

02:34:03.000 That's funny, too, because how many of them I want to, right?

02:34:05.000 How many of the threads in it might involve me?

02:34:08.000 Because, you know, again, the reason why I have to stay up on it is because that's part of my podcast.

02:34:13.000 Right.

02:34:13.000 You know, we're through the social media, so I have to.

02:34:16.000 And these boxing groups, or even on our own fight, or punchline boxing group, you see the comments, and I'm just going, I'm like, I can't really answer that, though, because I'd look corny as shit if I answer that one.

02:34:28.000 Right.

02:34:29.000 You know, and it's hard, and it's frustrating.

02:34:30.000 It really is.

02:34:31.000 Yeah.

02:34:32.000 Well, the interesting world that we live in today, I mean, it's a great time to communicate with people.

02:34:39.000 It's amazing.

02:34:39.000 But it's also a great time for douchebags to communicate with you, too.

02:34:42.000 It is. 0.90

02:34:43.000 Dangerous time, actually, all around.

02:34:45.000 Yeah.

02:34:45.000 But I think it's cool that you're doing this podcast thing, and I think it's awesome, and I really do hope you do commentary.

02:34:51.000 As far as you fighting, hey man, if you fight, I'll watch, but if you don't fight, I'll be happy to.

02:34:56.000 Well, I will definitely keep you in a loop.

02:34:58.000 Tell me.

02:34:58.000 Let me know.

02:34:59.000 I will definitely keep you in a loop on that.

02:35:00.000 Come back on if you do announce something, something's happening.

02:35:03.000 I will do that.

02:35:04.000 Let us know.

02:35:05.000 And tell people how to get a hold of your podcast.

02:35:07.000 How can they get it?

02:35:08.000 My podcast is thepunchline.live.

02:35:11.000 That's the easiest way to get to it.

02:35:12.000 Or on YouTube also.

02:35:14.000 You go to Punchline with Kelly Pavlik and James Dominguez.

02:35:17.000 And we're also on social media on Tuesdays at 7 o'clock Eastern Time.

02:35:23.000 So those are easy ways.

02:35:25.000 Is it on iTunes as well?

02:35:27.000 No.

02:35:27.000 No?

02:35:28.000 No.

02:35:28.000 And that's where we're trying to go next round.

02:35:31.000 Get that shit on iTunes. 1.00

02:35:32.000 Jesus Christ. 1.00

02:35:33.000 Hey, listen.

02:35:33.000 I'm learning.

02:35:35.000 Yeah, but yeah, punchline.live, and then, you know, or you go to YouTube, The Punchline with Kelly Pavlik and James Dominguez, and that's the way to get to it.

02:35:44.000 Well, thanks for doing this, brother.

02:35:45.000 Hey, thanks for having me on.

02:35:46.000 My pleasure.

02:35:47.000 I truly, Joe.

02:35:48.000 It was awesome, man.

02:35:49.000 I appreciate it, man.

02:35:50.000 Fun times.

02:35:50.000 Kelly Pavlik, ladies and gentlemen.

The Joe Rogan Experience - January 09, 2019

JRE MMA Show #55 with Kelly Pavlik

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