The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #61 with Herb Dean

00:00:01.000 Five, four, three.

00:00:03.000 I was good that day, but then the next day, like, oh.

00:00:06.000 Live!

00:00:07.000 And we're live, Herb Dean.

00:00:08.000 How are you, sir?

00:00:09.000 I'm good.

00:00:09.000 How about yourself?

00:00:10.000 So glad we're finally doing this.

00:00:12.000 You and I have talked about doing a podcast for the last, like, three years.

00:00:15.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:00:15.000 You know, yeah, I'm glad to be on it.

00:00:18.000 Yeah.

00:00:18.000 Hang out with you, talk to you for a little bit.

00:00:20.000 I think, and I've said this before, you have the hardest job in the sport other than the fighters.

00:00:26.000 The fighters, obviously, they have the hardest job.

00:00:28.000 You have the second hardest job.

00:00:30.000 Referee is the second hardest job in the sport. 1.00

00:00:32.000 It's a fucking hard job. 0.99

00:00:34.000 You have so much responsibility. 1.00

00:00:36.000 Yeah, I think you have a really hard job.

00:00:38.000 I think the talk, how long do you talk for?

00:00:40.000 It's just hours, six hours.

00:00:43.000 Six hours, and sometimes there's not always something interesting to talk about.

00:00:48.000 So I think it's amazing to be able to talk about that.

00:00:52.000 It's not that easy.

00:00:53.000 It's not that hard, rather.

00:00:54.000 It's pretty easy.

00:00:55.000 I mean, it's just a bunch of stuff's happening, and you're calling it. 0.98

00:00:58.000 And I'm a blabbermouth, so I can't shut the fuck up anyway. 0.54

00:01:01.000 So if there's spots where there's... 0.92

00:01:03.000 It's not that interesting.

00:01:04.000 I'll just find something interesting to say.

00:01:06.000 But it's not that...

00:01:08.000 You know, in terms of like...

00:01:11.000 What's happening is happening.

00:01:12.000 You know what I mean?

00:01:13.000 A guy's getting hit.

00:01:13.000 A guy's getting choked.

00:01:14.000 There's a lot of crazy action going on.

00:01:16.000 And it's really pretty easy if you're a lifelong fan of martial arts like I am to call it.

00:01:24.000 As long as you're enthusiastic and you're interested in doing it.

00:01:26.000 And you know, you've got to treat it with respect.

00:01:28.000 You've got to treat it for what it is.

00:01:30.000 You're trying to entertain people.

00:01:32.000 You're trying to use your words in the most pleasing way possible.

00:01:38.000 You're trying to massage people's ears in a way.

00:01:41.000 You're trying to also represent what you're seeing and how special it is.

00:01:47.000 Yeah, I did it a little bit, not for real.

00:01:51.000 Somehow I used to do this thing that was for these people, Black Belt TV, and I was with Don the Dragon Wilson, and they were just like old fights, and we're supposed to commentate this old fight, and that's why I think it's hard, because I was horrible at it.

00:02:03.000 Well, old fights are harder, because you might know what's already happened, so you've got to play dumb, so it's almost like you have to be an actor as well as commenting on a fight.

00:02:14.000 I think it would be harder to call an old fight. 0.82

00:02:17.000 Because in the back of your head, you'd be like, I'm a big phony.

00:02:20.000 I know what's happening.

00:02:22.000 This fight has already happened.

00:02:24.000 I think they did that with some of the Pride fights.

00:02:26.000 I think some of the Pride fights, they did the commentary after the action.

00:02:32.000 Because you remember when Pride would come on at like 3 o'clock in the morning, and we wouldn't get it until like a day later or something like that?

00:02:39.000 I remember one time, the worst is when one of your friends tells you, because you wait, you don't look at the internet.

00:02:45.000 I remember I was training, I think I went and I trained with Savant one time.

00:02:49.000 I don't know if you know him, Savant Young.

00:02:50.000 Yeah, and we had been in the car the whole time rolling.

00:02:52.000 I was like, when I get home, I'm going to watch Pride.

00:02:54.000 And then right before he, I dropped him off at his house, right before he gets to the car, he goes, oh, Vanderlei Silva lost.

00:03:00.000 Oh, no!

00:03:02.000 Or something like that.

00:03:03.000 I think it was that he said something like that.

00:03:05.000 Yeah, we would have to wait.

00:03:07.000 Sometimes, like, there was a couple events where I feel like it was like a week or something crazy.

00:03:11.000 Wasn't it?

00:03:12.000 Mm-hmm.

00:03:13.000 So you had to, like, stay off the internet for a week.

00:03:15.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:03:16.000 Which is good for me.

00:03:18.000 You know, I can do it.

00:03:19.000 But you've got to also avoid all your friends who are little internet fanatics.

00:03:22.000 They start talking and you're like, stop, stop.

00:03:24.000 I don't know who won yet.

00:03:26.000 These days, it's so bad.

00:03:28.000 If I go and I do a comedy show on the night of a big boxing match or something like that, my text messages tell me. 0.99

00:03:36.000 People start sending me, they can't wait to spoil shit. 0.99

00:03:39.000 They're like, damn, Golovkin got robbed. 1.00

00:03:41.000 I was like, what? 0.99

00:03:43.000 What happened? 1.00

00:03:43.000 Ah, fuck! 1.00

00:03:44.000 And then I don't get to just watch it. 1.00

00:03:47.000 I want to just come home and hit the DVR and watch it. 0.99

00:03:50.000 I'll keep the fuck away from the news. 0.99

00:03:51.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0.98

00:03:53.000 Let me get home, but then the text messages will get me.

00:03:56.000 It's almost like I can't even read text messages.

00:03:58.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0.99

00:03:59.000 God damn it. 0.99

00:04:01.000 It's funny, but you don't enjoy a fight, even if it's a great fight, as much if you know what happened. 0.99

00:04:07.000 Yeah, no, no, no.

00:04:09.000 You want to watch it for the first time.

00:04:11.000 Yeah.

00:04:11.000 As it is, yeah.

00:04:12.000 Like, I heard that Gaethje knocked out Barboza, and I was like, wow. 0.99

00:04:16.000 Yeah, holy shit. 0.99

00:04:17.000 I didn't see that. 0.99

00:04:18.000 I haven't seen it.

00:04:18.000 Oh, my God.

00:04:19.000 Oh, my God. 0.98

00:04:21.000 Gaethje's a savage. 0.99

00:04:23.000 He's a savage, man. 0.99

00:04:25.000 He's got a special kind of savagery. 0.94

00:04:30.000 I guess it's all judged on a spectrum.

00:04:33.000 There's some dudes that are just so ferocious.

00:04:35.000 They're just so willing to wade into battle.

00:04:38.000 Yeah, and to engage.

00:04:40.000 That guy just engages.

00:04:41.000 It's a weird willingness to engage, almost fearless willingness to engage.

00:04:47.000 It's very unusual.

00:04:49.000 And when he's in there getting it, that's when it seems like he's at his happiest, right?

00:04:54.000 Yeah.

00:04:54.000 It's crazy.

00:04:56.000 I roughed a fight like that.

00:04:58.000 I roughed a lot of fights in Russia.

00:05:03.000 So I refereed a fight with this guy Balayev.

00:05:10.000 Murat Balayev versus Salman.

00:05:13.000 Man, it was for a championship, ACA. Man, these guys went to war.

00:05:18.000 He hurt him early on and had him, you know, almost put out and then he came back.

00:05:24.000 Balayev lost.

00:05:25.000 But it was his, I mean, as an older gentleman, he's over 40. I saw that energy come out.

00:05:34.000 Like when he was struggling through the hard times, you could tell that some sort of battle joy was on him.

00:05:40.000 You know what I mean?

00:05:40.000 He's that kind of guy.

00:05:41.000 Battle joy.

00:05:42.000 Battle joy.

00:05:42.000 You know what I mean?

00:05:43.000 Yeah.

00:05:44.000 You hear it like, oh, he's in it.

00:05:45.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:05:46.000 Battlejoy is real shit. 1.00

00:05:47.000 Yeah, uh-huh. 1.00

00:05:48.000 Battlejoy.

00:05:49.000 Diego Sanchez is all full of battlejoy.

00:05:51.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:05:52.000 It's a perfect example.

00:05:53.000 It didn't die with the Vikings.

00:05:56.000 People are experiencing battlejoy to this day.

00:05:59.000 Oh, yeah, there's my man right there.

00:06:00.000 There it is.

00:06:01.000 Yeah, yeah. 1.00

00:06:02.000 You just look at their fucking bodies covered in blood. 1.00

00:06:06.000 And they're as happy as they can be. 1.00

00:06:09.000 Goddamn, that dude's face is busted up. 0.99

00:06:14.000 Yeah, it's, um... 0.99

00:06:15.000 Did you see the bare knuckle fighting?

00:06:17.000 I haven't watched any of them yet.

00:06:18.000 I watched some exchanges between...

00:06:21.000 It's just...

00:06:22.000 It's hard to watch.

00:06:24.000 It's weird.

00:06:25.000 I was a big proponent of bare knuckle.

00:06:27.000 I was like, they should fight bare knuckle because it's ridiculous that you pat up only your gloves.

00:06:31.000 But you don't pat up your elbows or your shins or your knees.

00:06:35.000 But, um...

00:06:37.000 Jason Knight versus Artem Lobov, it was a weird fight to watch, man.

00:06:41.000 I mean, they beat the fuck out of each other.

00:06:43.000 I heard. 0.97

00:06:44.000 They both came out of it super cut up, man.

00:06:47.000 Like, a lifetime's worth of cuts in one fight.

00:06:52.000 Yeah, and you saw that.

00:06:53.000 I think it's going to be...

00:06:55.000 I saw their faces.

00:06:57.000 That looks like it's going to be some long healing.

00:06:59.000 Yeah, man. 0.98

00:07:00.000 I mean, these guys beat the shit out of each other. 0.98

00:07:02.000 Bare knuckle. 0.93

00:07:04.000 And it is kind of weird that you do recognize...

00:07:07.000 First of all, they're not really...

00:07:08.000 They're bare knuckle, but they're not bare wrists.

00:07:11.000 Like, look how their hands are all wrapped up to prevent them from breaking.

00:07:14.000 Which is...

00:07:14.000 It's interesting.

00:07:15.000 It shows us how fragile our hands really are.

00:07:18.000 No, no, yeah.

00:07:19.000 And so that's why I didn't really think that a bare knuckle was going to be that...

00:07:23.000 I knew...

00:07:26.000 That more intense, but when I'm seeing some of these matches, they are really intense.

00:07:32.000 But at the end of the day, I think, the bottom line, still the most dangerous weapons, I think, are the elbows and knees, right?

00:07:37.000 Yeah, for cuts, for sure.

00:07:40.000 And for damage.

00:07:41.000 I mean, remember those knees that Jon Jones hit Brandon Vera with?

00:07:44.000 I mean, those elbows Jon Jones hit Brandon Vera with?

00:07:46.000 Oh, yeah, for sure.

00:07:47.000 Yeah.

00:07:49.000 John, from the mount position, from the top, he's got some of the most horrific elbows of all time.

00:07:54.000 Even from the guard, right?

00:07:57.000 Yep, from anywhere.

00:07:58.000 Remember Tito Ortiz never passed guard?

00:08:00.000 Never passed guard.

00:08:02.000 Just beat everybody up from inside the guard. 0.91

00:08:04.000 Smashed him.

00:08:05.000 He was an expert.

00:08:06.000 Joe Schilling's last fight, he cut that dude up real bad, all from inside the guard.

00:08:11.000 It was horrible.

00:08:12.000 Ground and pound with his elbows.

00:08:14.000 Yeah.

00:08:15.000 But I think for the most damage, I think it's like a wheel kick to the head.

00:08:20.000 Yeah.

00:08:20.000 Remember when Barboza fought Adam?

00:08:23.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:08:25.000 That's like the most damage.

00:08:26.000 No, the wheel kick to the head is...

00:08:28.000 And that's, man, that...

00:08:30.000 Yeah, who used to do that wheel kick to the head? 0.99

00:08:33.000 He just fought.

00:08:35.000 A guy, he's from Canada.

00:08:37.000 Oh, from Canada.

00:08:39.000 He just fought, but he didn't do a wheel kick.

00:08:40.000 He didn't do it.

00:08:42.000 He used to get everybody with a spinning back kick.

00:08:45.000 And he's a UFC guy?

00:08:47.000 Yeah.

00:08:51.000 Short, thick guy.

00:08:52.000 Is it McDessie?

00:08:53.000 John McDessie?

00:08:54.000 Yeah, John McDessie's a Taekwondo guy.

00:08:56.000 Yeah, how many people?

00:08:57.000 He caught a couple of people with a spinning back kick, right?

00:09:00.000 Probably.

00:09:00.000 I mean, he's caught people with a lot of stuff.

00:09:02.000 He's got a full kicking arsenal.

00:09:05.000 But yeah, originally like a Taekwondo background.

00:09:08.000 Yeah, it's amazing that you're seeing all these different styles that it's still, even all these years in...

00:09:17.000 There's all these different styles of fighting.

00:09:19.000 Like, they're completely different.

00:09:21.000 You got, like, the Ben Askren style still.

00:09:23.000 Just grab a hold of him.

00:09:24.000 Use your superior wrestling. 1.00

00:09:25.000 Beat his ass. 1.00

00:09:26.000 And then you got Stylebender style. 1.00

00:09:29.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:09:29.000 Just full-on, super-technical striker tricking you, setting traps.

00:09:35.000 You know, like, as a person who loves striking, like, it's an interesting time.

00:09:41.000 You know, there's so much variety. 0.99

00:09:43.000 There's so much shit going on. 0.97

00:09:44.000 It's so funny because so many things come back and they go back and forth and there's all these things that people are telling you you're not supposed to do this or this isn't going to work and then someone comes up and shuts it all down and says, yeah, no, this is going to work. 0.99

00:09:57.000 It's always so exciting.

00:09:59.000 How about that Russian dude?

00:10:00.000 What is his name? 1.00

00:10:01.000 The guy that Olynyk who gets people with the fucking... 1.00

00:10:05.000 He gets people with an Ezekiel from the mount? 0.99

00:10:07.000 You're mounting him and he Ezekiels you? 0.99

00:10:09.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:10:10.000 All the time, right?

00:10:11.000 Yeah, Ezekiel will mount.

00:10:13.000 He gets it from your guard.

00:10:15.000 He's in your guard and Ezekiels you. 1.00

00:10:17.000 And he's...

00:10:18.000 Yeah, and that's exactly the guy.

00:10:19.000 Like, he's that guy who everybody...

00:10:22.000 Look at this.

00:10:22.000 Yeah.

00:10:23.000 That is a crazy grip the way he does it.

00:10:25.000 You can see how tight it is.

00:10:27.000 That is amazing that he does that.

00:10:29.000 No, he has grip.

00:10:30.000 I mean, he does scarf hold chokes to people.

00:10:36.000 He's done it to quite a few.

00:10:37.000 And I've seen he laces it up a little different.

00:10:39.000 I think he did one.

00:10:41.000 But he...

00:10:43.000 He does stuff that nobody else does.

00:10:45.000 Scarf hole chokes are legit. 1.00

00:10:46.000 You've got to remember, Josh Barnett tapped out Dean Lister with a scarf hole choke.

00:10:51.000 That's true, yeah.

00:10:51.000 But I think he's done two people with that, right?

00:10:54.000 He did one guy in the UFC with it, and I think he did it to Krokop.

00:11:00.000 I refereed him in Krokop in Russia once, in Moscow, and he did one to Krokop.

00:11:06.000 Yeah, that Scarfold choke, if you've got a real, like, you know, like that guy, like Ole Nick does, that kind of death grip.

00:11:12.000 Yeah.

00:11:12.000 Those guys, which brings us to the last fight, man.

00:11:15.000 Yeah, we speak death grip.

00:11:16.000 Death grip, yeah.

00:11:17.000 Yeah, that Ben Askren fight.

00:11:19.000 Dude, I've watched that fight.

00:11:21.000 I've watched that finish, like, ten times, trying to figure out what happened or whether he was out or whether he wasn't out.

00:11:28.000 I was pretty convinced that at one point in time he went out.

00:11:32.000 And then Kamaru Usman changed my mind.

00:11:34.000 Kamaru Usman showed the...

00:11:36.000 We watched the videotape together.

00:11:37.000 He's like, no, no, he's giving a thumbs up. 1.00

00:11:39.000 And I'm like, shit! 0.99

00:11:41.000 Yeah, okay, so I'm still, because the angles I've seen haven't been the best, I'm trying to see this thumbs up. 0.99

00:11:46.000 Was the thumb going up or was the thumb in a thumbs up position going this way?

00:11:50.000 Right, like as the arm drops, was the thumb in a thumbs up position?

00:11:52.000 Okay, so when I give somebody a thumbs up, like I say somebody, good job.

00:11:56.000 You want this.

00:11:56.000 Good job, buddy.

00:11:57.000 Right.

00:11:57.000 Good job, buddy.

00:11:58.000 Thumbs up.

00:11:59.000 That's what you want.

00:12:00.000 That's what I want to do.

00:12:05.000 Nobody's going to know whether he was conscious or unconscious.

00:12:09.000 I saw everything that would indicate I'm seeing an unconscious fighter.

00:12:13.000 I see an arm go limp for no reason whatsoever.

00:12:18.000 That's what I have to work with.

00:12:21.000 We don't know what someone's feeling or whatever.

00:12:23.000 We just see if they're doing something that doesn't make sense and you see an arm go limp at that time.

00:12:28.000 You're going to assume that the person is unconscious.

00:12:30.000 We assumed it.

00:12:31.000 Yeah.

00:12:31.000 As the broadcast team, we assumed it too.

00:12:33.000 Yeah, I can hear you guys.

00:12:33.000 And that I'm supposed to do certain things.

00:12:36.000 And like, so here's the thing with that.

00:12:38.000 Choke. 0.93

00:12:39.000 When I'm refereeing fights, you know, there's some times where, you know, some positions are anxiety.

00:12:44.000 Like, you know, you see two guys going after leg locks.

00:12:47.000 You see a noodle mess of legs and you know you're going to have to help one guy out and figure out who's tapping and make sure you're on the right arm.

00:12:54.000 When I see some chokes, a rear naked choke, especially the guy in the back face up, I took a sigh of relief. 1.00

00:13:00.000 My job just got so much easier.

00:13:02.000 This guy, you know, it's not like he's going to go out and then in a second take some extreme amount of damage.

00:13:08.000 He may go out.

00:13:09.000 I'll have a second to make sure.

00:13:10.000 Not even a second.

00:13:11.000 A half a breath to make sure he's okay.

00:13:14.000 And then let it go out.

00:13:15.000 And he's not going to take any other damage.

00:13:19.000 Bulldog choke, anytime you have a choke where there's pressure on the neck and they're bending the C-spine backwards like that, that's a rough situation for me.

00:13:30.000 So I see someone go limp and I know that on top of it they're no longer putting tension on their neck and their neck is just being bent.

00:13:37.000 I can't...

00:13:39.000 I can't see that I should do something different than that.

00:13:43.000 I like to talk to people about this.

00:13:45.000 I like to talk to people who have opinions about fights, especially people who are interested and who they know what they're talking about.

00:13:51.000 Because if I always have a situation, if I always have a mindset that I'm always doing the right thing, I can't get better.

00:13:57.000 So I'm going to have to look at something and say, is there a teachable moment there?

00:14:01.000 Is there a way I can learn from this?

00:14:02.000 And is there a way I could do something different?

00:14:05.000 And no, I think with that same situation, with an arm going limp, with that type of a choke on someone, I don't know of a defense that requires the arm.

00:14:14.000 You know what I mean?

00:14:14.000 I would think the arm should be doing something else.

00:14:17.000 At this time, I don't see that I should do something different.

00:14:21.000 I'm always interested and always looking.

00:14:24.000 I love these type of conversations.

00:14:26.000 But right now, I can't think of...

00:14:28.000 To tell you something, it was an amazing fight.

00:14:31.000 It was.

00:14:33.000 First of all, it was the first time I'd seen a referee Ben Askren.

00:14:37.000 I don't think I'd refereed him before.

00:14:41.000 His pressure is something special.

00:14:44.000 It's not the normal...

00:14:45.000 And the way Robbie dealt with it, and Robbie had him in trouble.

00:14:50.000 I was so close to stopping that fight.

00:14:52.000 When they were on the ground?

00:14:53.000 Yeah, so many times.

00:14:54.000 Robbie was hitting him with some bombs.

00:14:56.000 Yeah, the amount of respect I have for those two athletes, man.

00:15:00.000 So that's the thing.

00:15:02.000 We never want to see anything that could make you have a feeling that it's inconclusive.

00:15:07.000 But I can't think of what else I should have done.

00:15:11.000 But, you know, I mean, especially for that fight for those two guys, you know, you always wanted people to have a feeling of conclusion there. 0.91

00:15:19.000 Well, when we talked about on the phone, when you brought up the possible damage to the neck with the bulldog choke, you might be cutting off nerves and you might be bending the spine in kind of a fucked up way.

00:15:30.000 I really hadn't considered that. 0.62

00:15:32.000 When I was thinking of the choke when he grabbed hold of him, I was just thinking it was a blood choke.

00:15:36.000 But you're right.

00:15:38.000 The way you lean in on a bulldog choke, you lean back.

00:15:41.000 That's a lot of pressure on the neck.

00:15:44.000 I've had some chokes where I've refereed a fight where a guy did one of these moves.

00:15:50.000 You had a move for it.

00:15:51.000 A technique where he's bending the spine backwards.

00:15:54.000 Twister?

00:15:55.000 It wasn't a twister.

00:15:57.000 I think guys have a name for it.

00:15:58.000 Do you know what the executioner is?

00:16:00.000 So that's what it was.

00:16:01.000 That's what it is.

00:16:01.000 Can I explain to people?

00:16:03.000 What that is, is if a guy is...

00:16:06.000 Not to cut you off.

00:16:07.000 For so long, I've never really wanted to talk about it because people weren't doing it.

00:16:11.000 This was years ago I saw it.

00:16:12.000 But now if there's a name for it, I guess it's okay.

00:16:15.000 But you hadn't seen a lot of people doing it before, right?

00:16:18.000 Well, we started doing it in 10th Planet a few years back.

00:16:23.000 I think people have done it.

00:16:25.000 What it is, basically, folks, it's like a guillotine from the back.

00:16:29.000 It's like taking a rear naked choke hooks, but instead of choking a guy this way, which is how you would do it, which is wrap your forearm underneath his neck and wrap the other arm behind his head. 0.66

00:16:41.000 Instead of doing that, you wrap your arm all the way around the front like a guillotine hold, but from the back, and you have ungodly leverage.

00:16:51.000 Right.

00:16:51.000 It's ungodly how much pressure you can put on someone's neck.

00:16:54.000 Our friend Scott Epstein...

00:16:57.000 He used it quite a few times, so we called it the absecutioner.

00:17:01.000 Is that it there?

00:17:02.000 Oh, I'm trying to find a picture of one.

00:17:04.000 Is that what he's going to do?

00:17:05.000 No, this says the executioner choke.

00:17:08.000 This is a different choke.

00:17:09.000 He calls it the absecutioner.

00:17:11.000 I looked that up and nothing came up.

00:17:13.000 Okay, I think I might have a...

00:17:16.000 I have it here for you.

00:17:17.000 Something like this.

00:17:18.000 This is a little different.

00:17:19.000 This guy had arms in.

00:17:21.000 This is different, but it's similar.

00:17:23.000 Oh yeah, it's similar though.

00:17:24.000 It's similar.

00:17:25.000 Yeah, you could have arms in.

00:17:26.000 Yeah, that's the same thing.

00:17:28.000 Yeah, this is it.

00:17:29.000 That's 100% it.

00:17:33.000 I don't know how we're going to show people that.

00:17:35.000 Either way, it's a real bad place to be in.

00:17:39.000 Oh, this guy got it?

00:17:40.000 Yeah, that's Scott Epstein.

00:17:42.000 That's the north-south choke.

00:17:45.000 Is that it?

00:17:45.000 But what he would do if he wanted to do an executioner is he would get his hips underneath the guy and get back position.

00:17:55.000 This is just a really good north-south choke.

00:17:58.000 So, yeah.

00:17:58.000 So what I saw is the guy went north-south.

00:18:00.000 And this was years ago at a King of the Cage way out in Wisconsin.

00:18:06.000 And he had – wow, this was a long, long time ago.

00:18:10.000 He had north-south and he sat up.

00:18:14.000 Once he had the guy, he sat up and pulled the guy's body up onto him in almost a sitting position and then put hooks.

00:18:22.000 And then I've done it before where I'll roll the guy to the side.

00:18:25.000 Just to walk it through and figure out how it worked.

00:18:29.000 He put hooks and I was sitting and I was like, okay, this isn't illegal.

00:18:33.000 If I stop this fight, it's not, you know, this is not an illegal move, but I don't want to see how this plays out.

00:18:39.000 And the guy got one hook in, and almost the second hook was about to go in.

00:18:44.000 The guy tapped, and when I pulled him off, the guy couldn't move. 0.99

00:18:49.000 His neck was fucked up. 0.99

00:18:50.000 Yeah, he couldn't move. 1.00

00:18:52.000 You know, he had some sort of stinger.

00:18:53.000 I don't know what's going on.

00:18:54.000 He couldn't move.

00:18:55.000 He was terrified.

00:18:56.000 I was terrified.

00:18:57.000 And then it kind of, you know...

00:19:00.000 Came back.

00:19:01.000 Came back, yeah.

00:19:02.000 Jesus.

00:19:04.000 Yeah, I know of several guys that have gotten paralyzed because of defense from guillotine or trying to take a guy down when someone gets you in a guillotine.

00:19:16.000 Yeah, I've heard of that.

00:19:17.000 So that's why with some submissions, especially some of the chokes, it's like, okay, things are slowing down and things are getting a little bit easier for me.

00:19:27.000 With that one, things are not easy at all.

00:19:29.000 That's not something that I want to play with.

00:19:32.000 I think if...

00:19:33.000 I'm kind of disappointed with some people who have a platform.

00:19:37.000 I don't want to mention any names, but some people who have a platform have kind of tossed it out.

00:19:41.000 It was something sensational and say, oh, look at this.

00:19:43.000 Is he wrong or right?

00:19:44.000 I think that's a little irresponsible when it's some dangerous techniques like that.

00:19:49.000 Well, I think you really pointed that out about the neck in a very important way, and I think that's something that people should really take into consideration when you see someone, you've seen people, have you ever refereed someone who got caught in a twister?

00:20:01.000 Yeah.

00:20:01.000 It's a horrible place to be.

00:20:03.000 Yeah, it's a horrible place to be. 0.99

00:20:05.000 It's so, your neck is so fucked up and there's so much pressure, and the fact that your left leg's isolated and your head's getting pulled, it feels like it's going to Yeah. 0.98

00:20:30.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:20:31.000 Yeah. 0.93

00:20:35.000 Korean zombie.

00:20:36.000 I think he got the first ever one on Leonard Garcia.

00:20:38.000 I think that was the first.

00:20:39.000 Look at that.

00:20:40.000 That is so horrible, dude.

00:20:42.000 That is so bad.

00:20:44.000 That feels so terrible.

00:20:46.000 Then there's DEFCON 4, when you take a rear naked choke grip from the twister position.

00:20:53.000 Oh yeah, okay, I've seen that.

00:20:55.000 You're just ripping dudes' heads clean off. 0.58

00:20:57.000 It's horrible.

00:20:59.000 All those crazy catch wrestling, neck manipulation things, those things make my neck hurt just looking at them.

00:21:05.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:07.000 So anyway, yeah, that's why I think, you know, you can't always say look at things as good or bad, but, you know, some situations I've seen referees in, and that one I think is a difficult situation.

00:21:18.000 Not so.

00:21:18.000 I've seen other harder situations, but you know what I mean?

00:21:21.000 Yeah, it's an unusual one.

00:21:23.000 Yeah, I mean, we've seen quite a few bulldog chokes that put someone unconscious.

00:21:28.000 Most recently, Raquel Pennington against Ashley Evans-Smith.

00:21:31.000 It was a crazy fight.

00:21:33.000 Crazy fight.

00:21:37.000 That was a crazy fight, man.

00:21:39.000 It was just war and chaos.

00:21:40.000 And then with like one second to go, she chokes her out and then lets her go. 1.00

00:21:46.000 And she's asleep from the bulldog choke.

00:21:49.000 And Ashley Evans Smith steps up covered in blood. 0.99

00:21:51.000 I mean, it was fucking crazy. 0.99

00:21:54.000 That was crazy. 0.99

00:21:55.000 But there's that one.

00:21:57.000 Didn't Chris Lights Out Lytle catch Tiki in a bulldog choke?

00:22:01.000 I think he did.

00:22:02.000 Of course, Carlos Newton won the title.

00:22:07.000 Yeah, that looked really tight.

00:22:10.000 Yeah, forget that.

00:22:11.000 Go to Carlos Newton chokes out Pat Miletic.

00:22:17.000 Because this was for the title and he caught him in a bulldog choke. 0.58

00:22:20.000 That was...

00:22:21.000 I don't think we had a name for it.

00:22:23.000 I think we used to call it a schoolyard headlock back then.

00:22:25.000 Yeah, dude.

00:22:25.000 Somebody called it a bulldog choke at that time.

00:22:27.000 I remember people were calling it a bulldog choke.

00:22:29.000 Oh, like it already had that name.

00:22:30.000 I don't know if it had there.

00:22:31.000 Maybe they gave it to him, but yeah.

00:22:33.000 It's a legit move.

00:22:34.000 Like, it's a legit move.

00:22:36.000 Especially if you're a Ben Askren type dude with that kind of grip.

00:22:39.000 You get a hold of someone's neck in that position.

00:22:42.000 It's horrible.

00:22:43.000 Yeah.

00:22:44.000 Yeah.

00:22:46.000 That's why I say that referees have the hardest job.

00:22:49.000 Because you're in that situation.

00:22:50.000 You do have to take those things into consideration.

00:22:52.000 What kind of damage is this doing to this guy's neck?

00:22:55.000 Is he out?

00:22:56.000 His arm went limp.

00:22:57.000 Okay, when do I stay?

00:22:58.000 I gotta save him.

00:23:00.000 Yeah, no, that is the tough part about it.

00:23:02.000 You know, we're evaluating a situation as always.

00:23:05.000 There's different, you know, and you're evaluating a threat to the person.

00:23:09.000 You're evaluating if there's a threat coming, how much, how well can they deal with it?

00:23:13.000 There's a lot of stuff going on there.

00:23:14.000 And, you know, we take it really serious.

00:23:16.000 I take it really serious.

00:23:17.000 To me, it's...

00:23:20.000 I feel that I have a sacred trust. 0.99

00:23:22.000 I feel that it's one of these positions that our athletes are not stupid people.

00:23:27.000 A lot of them could be doing a lot of things with their life, and they've chosen this path, and they take time from their family, they take time away from other careers where they could be progressing, and all to meet their dreams and hopes, and I need to balance that with their safety.

00:23:41.000 So it's something I think about a lot.

00:23:44.000 Even in the way I talk to my friends, I'm always working as a referee.

00:23:52.000 Anytime I'm out in the streets or with friends, people are going to ask me, what do I think about this fight or who do I think can be better?

00:23:58.000 Because of this job you're doing, you no longer have the luxury of talking about mixed martial arts in a fun way about who's going to win and how's this going to happen because who knows, I might referee the fight.

00:24:09.000 Right, right.

00:24:10.000 And everyone's going to be on the internet.

00:24:11.000 Like, Herb's refereeing the fight and we were having beers yesterday.

00:24:14.000 Guess what he told me?

00:24:16.000 Right, right, right.

00:24:17.000 Yeah, it's just, you know, so yeah, I take it serious.

00:24:20.000 No, you do, and I'm glad you have that attitude.

00:24:23.000 What is this one right here?

00:24:24.000 Oh, yeah, this is Carlos.

00:24:25.000 This is Carlos right here.

00:24:26.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:24:27.000 In the transition, he grabs the neck.

00:24:29.000 And it's a crazy visual, too, because the photograph, you see the muscles right there, right there.

00:24:33.000 I mean, that is crazy muscles in Carlos' arm and shoulder and neck.

00:24:38.000 Look at that, Carlos Newton, champion of the world.

00:24:42.000 Right there, that moment.

00:24:43.000 Isn't that crazy?

00:24:44.000 Carlos had some spectacular grappling real early on, man.

00:24:49.000 Wild transitions.

00:24:50.000 Yeah, he was amazing.

00:24:50.000 Beautiful jiu-jitsu.

00:24:52.000 His explosiveness, his agility.

00:24:55.000 I mean, he was so athletic.

00:24:56.000 He was doing stuff that no one else, yeah.

00:24:58.000 He also had a really high-level submission game early on.

00:25:03.000 Yeah.

00:25:03.000 Like in 96, 97. A lot of people didn't have that kind of a game, and his submission game was tight.

00:25:09.000 The Matt Hughes one was crazy.

00:25:11.000 Remember that?

00:25:11.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:25:12.000 That was crazy.

00:25:13.000 Catches him in a triangle.

00:25:13.000 That triangle choke where he had him up.

00:25:15.000 Yeah.

00:25:16.000 He puts him to sleep.

00:25:18.000 And as they get up, Matt Hughes, you hear his coroner saying, like, stand up.

00:25:24.000 You won.

00:25:25.000 He's like, what happened?

00:25:26.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:25:27.000 Double knockout.

00:25:28.000 Yeah.

00:25:28.000 I have that one.

00:25:29.000 I have one of the King of the Cage.

00:25:30.000 A double knockout.

00:25:31.000 There it is.

00:25:31.000 Right here.

00:25:33.000 Look how goddamn strong Matt Hughes was. 0.99

00:25:36.000 He was so fucking strong. 0.99

00:25:37.000 That ability. 0.99

00:25:38.000 He holds him up there.

00:25:40.000 And Carlos is trying to...

00:25:43.000 Oh, he's squeezing.

00:25:45.000 He's squeezing.

00:25:46.000 So Matt goes unconscious.

00:25:47.000 He's out cold.

00:25:52.000 He doesn't know what's going on.

00:25:53.000 And no one knows what's going on.

00:25:55.000 So Carlos' head hit the ground when he went down like that.

00:26:00.000 And that knocked him out.

00:26:01.000 Right, right, right.

00:26:02.000 And then Matt woke up from the choke.

00:26:03.000 And they're like, you won.

00:26:05.000 Yeah.

00:26:08.000 It's great.

00:26:09.000 That was a crazy scene.

00:26:10.000 That scene was a tough one.

00:26:12.000 I was like, what do you do there?

00:26:13.000 Well, that was like the thing about this Robbie Lawler-Ben Askren fight.

00:26:17.000 Usman was saying, they got to run it back.

00:26:19.000 And I was like...

00:26:20.000 It wouldn't be a bad thing to run it back.

00:26:23.000 Well, at the same time, we've got to be honest here.

00:26:27.000 As far as running it back, how many of the fights that happen in the UFC are there because it's exciting what people want to see?

00:26:35.000 Yeah.

00:26:36.000 Most.

00:26:37.000 Right.

00:26:37.000 So...

00:26:37.000 Brock Lesnar, D.C. is a perfect example, right?

00:26:40.000 Right.

00:26:40.000 So that's exciting as people want to see it.

00:26:42.000 And some of the excitement has been generated by throwing me under the bus, but cool.

00:26:45.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:26:46.000 Cool.

00:26:46.000 Give the people another time.

00:26:48.000 I'm going to take it.

00:26:48.000 I got big shoulders.

00:26:49.000 I can take it.

00:26:50.000 You handled it great.

00:26:51.000 But yeah, no.

00:26:52.000 So yeah, I think anytime that the athletes get to do what they do and people are going to watch it again and people are going to be excited about it, I don't know.

00:27:01.000 Well, I don't think it's going to happen now, at least not immediately, because Masvidal and Ben Askren have a date for July.

00:27:09.000 They're going to do that July show in Vegas.

00:27:11.000 That's a great fight.

00:27:12.000 I like that fight a lot.

00:27:16.000 Masvidal's in a new place, man.

00:27:18.000 You could really tell.

00:27:19.000 He's something special right now.

00:27:21.000 He's something really special.

00:27:22.000 When he knocked out Till like that, I was like, whoa.

00:27:25.000 When he knocked out Cowboy, I was like, wow.

00:27:27.000 Yeah, no. 0.51

00:27:28.000 Masvidal's a beast. 0.78

00:27:29.000 He's so good, man.

00:27:31.000 And he seems like extra focused right now.

00:27:34.000 You know, like I think he's probably like, what is he, 35?

00:27:37.000 Somewhere in that range.

00:27:38.000 How old is he that old, huh?

00:27:39.000 How old is Jorge Masvidal?

00:27:41.000 He's either 34 or 35. He's coming on soon.

00:27:45.000 I'm having him on the podcast soon.

00:27:47.000 He's 35 in November.

00:27:49.000 Yeah, so he's at that stage of his career where you're kind of like, look, man, how much more time do you got?

00:27:56.000 Realistically, as a professional mixed martial arts fighter at 35 years of age.

00:28:01.000 If you're Anderson Silva, you have three more years of his prime, two more years, something like that.

00:28:06.000 You get to be 38, 39. That's kind of it.

00:28:11.000 Unless you're doing something.

00:28:13.000 Unless you're doing something to spice up the pot.

00:28:15.000 You know, like 40, 41, 42, man, tough.

00:28:20.000 Tough to compete.

00:28:21.000 Yeah, tough to compete.

00:28:22.000 On the natch.

00:28:23.000 Yeah.

00:28:25.000 Yeah, that's a whole other...

00:28:28.000 This TJ thing is a bummer.

00:28:30.000 That's a bummer.

00:28:31.000 If you don't know what we're talking about, TJ Dillashaw tested positive for injectable EPO, which is a serious performance enhancing substance.

00:28:40.000 And in some circumstances, according to Jeff Nowitzki, it's given people strokes. 0.88

00:28:47.000 And I had heard this too, that like young guys doing like Tour de France type shit would have strokes because they were taking too much EPO. Because you know, like if you're supposed to take one, take two, fuck it. 1.00

00:28:58.000 Right, right, right, right, right. 1.00

00:28:59.000 That's some mentality.

00:29:00.000 That's some mentality.

00:29:01.000 Anybody who's going to do that, you know. 1.00

00:29:03.000 That shit turns your blood to paint. 0.99

00:29:07.000 And I think that's, I guess that's probably the discipline, right, of how people are always getting away with things beforehand, right, is to try to maybe try to do it in a way where they won't get caught. 1.00

00:29:17.000 But I think that's like, oh, if this much is good, then this much more is going to be better.

00:29:23.000 Yeah, and we know guys who've done that with TRT. There was a few TRT tests when TRT was legal, testosterone replacement therapy, where you would hear about guys testing like 1400s, 1470, which is insane.

00:29:38.000 It's like superhuman.

00:29:39.000 No person's ever lived that has 1400, like a natural walking around testosterone level.

00:29:46.000 That's crazy hyperhuman. 0.96

00:29:47.000 But they just get these benefits from that.

00:29:50.000 Well, some of these people, though, who walk around naturally, I wonder if they've never been tested, though.

00:29:54.000 That's true.

00:29:55.000 Yeah.

00:29:55.000 Some of these people I see walking around, I'm like, man.

00:29:57.000 Genetic freaks. 0.98

00:29:58.000 Yeah, that dude looks like he was born on steroids. 0.71

00:30:00.000 Yeah. 0.56

00:30:00.000 There are some freaks, man. 0.56

00:30:02.000 There's some legit genetic freaks.

00:30:04.000 To deny that would be crazy.

00:30:06.000 There's some people that just, like, Yoel Romero.

00:30:09.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:30:09.000 I mean, what in the fuck? 1.00

00:30:10.000 It doesn't matter how many steroids you take. 1.00

00:30:13.000 It doesn't matter what you do. 0.96

00:30:14.000 Like, to look like that, you have to be a genetic freak.

00:30:19.000 Yeah, and they're out there.

00:30:20.000 They're walking around.

00:30:21.000 It's not fair.

00:30:21.000 Yoel was talking about...

00:30:23.000 He was saying, go to Cuba.

00:30:25.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:30:25.000 He's like, go see the jeans.

00:30:26.000 Go see the jeans.

00:30:28.000 Go to Cuba.

00:30:28.000 Look around.

00:30:30.000 Yeah, what's his name?

00:30:31.000 Um...

00:30:34.000 The fighter from France, the heavyweight from France.

00:30:36.000 Francis Ngannou?

00:30:38.000 Yeah, Francis Ngannou was a guy who used to be the one who had the crazy fat with Pat Berry.

00:30:45.000 Oh, Czech Congo. 1.00

00:30:46.000 Czech Congo, man. 1.00

00:30:47.000 Oh, yeah.

00:30:48.000 Adonis.

00:30:48.000 Yeah.

00:30:49.000 Sculpted.

00:30:49.000 Greek statue.

00:30:51.000 Yeah.

00:30:51.000 I just always imagine, like, I want to go to where he comes from.

00:30:54.000 Let's just take a look around.

00:30:56.000 Probably super athletes.

00:30:58.000 Yeah.

00:30:58.000 Probably a lot of meteors.

00:31:00.000 The TJ thing, apparently they went and tested his old fight piss with Cody, too.

00:31:07.000 And that tested positive for EPO as well.

00:31:09.000 Yeah.

00:31:10.000 And then Cody start freaking out.

00:31:12.000 What do you do if they go back? 0.99

00:31:15.000 What if they decide to go back and say, fuck it, let's test all the fights. 0.99

00:31:19.000 And it finds out that he was doing it like five, six, seven fights. 0.98

00:31:23.000 What do you do?

00:31:25.000 Well, yeah, and then what do you do if you...

00:31:27.000 But then, it's a whole other can of worms, too.

00:31:30.000 Because, like, all the fights, and then what about all the...

00:31:34.000 Because...

00:31:34.000 Right.

00:31:35.000 Like, are we going to test everybody?

00:31:36.000 Brendan Schaub and I were joking around last night.

00:31:38.000 And I was like, test them all!

00:31:40.000 And he was going, no!

00:31:41.000 I go, test them all!

00:31:43.000 Test everything!

00:31:44.000 Let's find out!

00:31:45.000 Let's know what it was!

00:31:46.000 Let's know what it was!

00:31:47.000 And he was like, what if they had piss samples...

00:31:50.000 From, you know, 10 years ago, 15 years ago.

00:31:54.000 If they could use USADA-style testing today on people from the past.

00:31:59.000 I'm so glad that all these things are above my pay grade.

00:32:03.000 Yeah, you don't have to deal with that.

00:32:04.000 Yeah, man, if I was the guys in the office right now in charge of that program, you have to really wonder, where is the line?

00:32:14.000 You certainly want to test a guy for a fight that happened a week ago.

00:32:17.000 You certainly want to hold and check if some new testing methods come out.

00:32:22.000 If there was a fight from a year ago, you certainly would check that.

00:32:26.000 How many years back do you go, though?

00:32:28.000 Yeah.

00:32:29.000 Especially if it's not expensive?

00:32:31.000 Like, what if it's easy and cheap to do a test?

00:32:33.000 So you just run 500 tests on the last 500 championship fights, and then you have like 400 fights that you now have to change the result of.

00:32:44.000 Yeah.

00:32:45.000 I don't know.

00:32:46.000 I don't know either.

00:32:47.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:32:47.000 Last night I was joking around.

00:32:49.000 I was saying, test them all.

00:32:51.000 I was taking the fun position, test them all.

00:32:55.000 I don't know, though.

00:32:56.000 I mean, look, we all know, at one point in time, performance-enhancing drugs were a huge part of mixed martial arts, and that's why the UFC stepped up and decided to institute this program.

00:33:08.000 I think it's a big part of professional sports in general.

00:33:12.000 Sure, 100%.

00:33:13.000 Yeah.

00:33:14.000 And I think that, you know, combat sports, you know, has government oversight that other sports don't have.

00:33:22.000 So I think that it's going to be coming up regardless anyway.

00:33:26.000 So I think maybe that's why the UFC took a position, right?

00:33:29.000 Because I think of the other sports, I mean, guys get caught doing things, but a lot of the other sports regulate themselves, right?

00:33:36.000 Yeah, I don't know.

00:33:37.000 I think the NFL regulates itself.

00:33:40.000 What other sport has a government body like an athletic commission saying, hey, we're going to show up and do this or do that?

00:33:47.000 I don't know.

00:33:48.000 What do they do with baseball?

00:33:49.000 I don't know.

00:33:51.000 I don't know much about other sports, but I've never heard of...

00:33:54.000 I'm just like you.

00:33:54.000 I've never heard of like a...

00:33:56.000 We all know about...

00:33:58.000 That's something different in our sport is that the government's involved.

00:34:01.000 They should have a commission.

00:34:02.000 Not like he's saying a government commission, but they're governing themselves.

00:34:06.000 The NFL would have a vote.

00:34:08.000 They hand down a suspension.

00:34:09.000 They're not fair from this guy's suspension to that guy's suspension.

00:34:13.000 In baseball, they have a three-strike rule.

00:34:15.000 The first time is somewhere in the 10-25 game range, and then the second one is half the season.

00:34:20.000 The third one, you're out for a whole year, and if you do it again, you're banned.

00:34:23.000 Yeah, but there's no outside government body, right, who shows up and decides to test your champion, right?

00:34:27.000 Just the baseball or NFL or basketball deciding what's the best.

00:34:32.000 Well, let's say you have a big moneymaker in your sport, and then somebody outside of your company just comes along and says, yeah, I'm a government body.

00:34:39.000 I have the right to test this guy.

00:34:41.000 Yeah, like what happened with Jon Jones.

00:34:43.000 I mean, that's a perfect example.

00:34:46.000 I mean, the UFC did not want Jon Jones to test positive.

00:34:49.000 He is the biggest star right now, other than Conor, and Conor's not active, and Jon Jones is fighting all the time.

00:34:57.000 He wants to fight all the time.

00:35:00.000 But that's the only way you ever find out what's really going on, is you hire a bunch of werewolves, and you just let them loose.

00:35:08.000 Go check piss. 0.96

00:35:09.000 Go! 0.95

00:35:10.000 Go out there.

00:35:11.000 Check.

00:35:12.000 Check everyone. 0.99

00:35:13.000 They check the shit out of people. 0.98

00:35:14.000 I was looking at this list of people that Holly Holm's been tested more than, like, I think Novitski might have put it. 0.99

00:35:21.000 Oh, Stipe Miocic tweeted it, because he'd been tested 38 times.

00:35:25.000 Really?

00:35:25.000 Yeah.

00:35:25.000 Some people, it's like in the 40s.

00:35:27.000 Chris Cyborg got tested a lot.

00:35:29.000 Yeah.

00:35:31.000 And Holly Holm got tested a lot, huh?

00:35:32.000 Yeah.

00:35:33.000 Yeah, Holly Holm got tested a lot.

00:35:34.000 A lot of people got tested.

00:35:37.000 It's just crazy numbers.

00:35:41.000 And a lot of them, I guarantee you, they're waking them up.

00:35:44.000 Yeah.

00:35:44.000 Getting them up like 6 in the morning.

00:35:46.000 That's what I've heard.

00:35:47.000 I mean, I don't know what they go, but I've heard conversations a little bit.

00:35:50.000 It doesn't seem like it's...

00:35:52.000 No, they want to make sure you're there so they get there really early.

00:35:54.000 Yeah, early in the morning. 0.99

00:35:55.000 But that's fucked up. 0.98

00:35:56.000 And you're supposed to tell them where you're going to be at. 0.99

00:36:00.000 The problem is if you're training hard, that 8 to 10 is so huge.

00:36:04.000 You might get hit with a punch.

00:36:05.000 If they wake you up after like 6 hours or 5 hours, it's possible that a punch might connect on you that wouldn't have connected if you got 8. That's not bullshit. 0.98

00:36:15.000 That's real. 0.69

00:36:16.000 That's real.

00:36:17.000 Everybody knows how you feel good in the gym. 0.98

00:36:20.000 Even if you just lift weights, there's days you feel good, there's days you feel like crap. 0.90

00:36:24.000 I made sure I showed up here well rested.

00:36:26.000 You look well rested.

00:36:27.000 And I'm hydrated.

00:36:28.000 I did.

00:36:29.000 I did hydrate.

00:36:32.000 Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

00:36:34.000 It's just not smart to stop athletes in the middle of their training camp and wake them up.

00:36:40.000 Yeah.

00:36:41.000 I mean, I get the testing, but I feel like the testing is so sophisticated.

00:36:44.000 You could get to them at noon, okay?

00:36:47.000 Just you could get to them at noon.

00:36:48.000 You got good testing now.

00:36:50.000 But we don't, I mean, I don't know that.

00:36:53.000 I don't know that either. 1.00

00:36:53.000 I'm talking shit. 1.00

00:36:54.000 Yeah, because I think the best time, right? 1.00

00:36:56.000 The best time is that, you know, maybe the earlier the better, right?

00:37:01.000 Maybe.

00:37:01.000 I don't know.

00:37:02.000 The thing about this EPO apparently, and this is what Shab was telling me, was that it didn't used to be detectable the way it is now.

00:37:11.000 They've got these new methods of detection.

00:37:14.000 And EPO is one, too, that apparently, from what I've read, don't listen to me, I'm not a doctor, they can absolutely tell that you injected it.

00:37:23.000 It's injectable, it comes in the injectable form, that's what's in the body, so there's no chance of a tainted supplement.

00:37:32.000 Right, right.

00:37:33.000 It's definitely EPO. So that's...

00:37:36.000 That's fucked up. 0.97

00:37:38.000 Because apparently that stuff has a giant advantage. 0.99

00:37:40.000 It gives you an anabolic advantage.

00:37:42.000 It also gives you crazy recuperative powers.

00:37:46.000 So you could train really hard and then be ready to go the next day.

00:37:49.000 What do you think the answer is?

00:37:51.000 Because for me, this is all stuff that, to be honest, I don't really pay that much attention to it because I don't have...

00:37:59.000 It's out of my wheelhouse to deal with, but also, it's hard to have an answer.

00:38:03.000 Like you said, do we go back and keep testing them when these new things come?

00:38:06.000 What do we do with the history books?

00:38:08.000 Yeah, it's very interesting.

00:38:10.000 What do you do with the history books?

00:38:12.000 That's what you'd say.

00:38:13.000 If you have samples that date back 10 years, do you test them all?

00:38:18.000 What do you do?

00:38:19.000 I don't know how long they keep samples, or who has them, or what's the chain of command.

00:38:28.000 I don't know, man.

00:38:29.000 But if you find out that TJ tested positive for the Cody fight, too, well, Cody sure has an argument there.

00:38:35.000 And what if it's the fight before that?

00:38:36.000 There's a lot of people who have arguments.

00:38:39.000 There's a lot of guys.

00:38:41.000 To me, it's a shame, too, because I'm a TJ fan, and I think he's a phenomenal fighter.

00:38:48.000 And I'm a big fan of watching him perform.

00:38:53.000 But just, it taints his legacy.

00:38:55.000 It just does.

00:38:56.000 There's no way around it.

00:38:57.000 When you get caught cheating, which is, this stuff is, there's no way it's not cheating.

00:39:04.000 I mean, this is just cheating, right?

00:39:06.000 I mean, this isn't any accident.

00:39:08.000 It taints your legacy.

00:39:10.000 The guy had an amazing legacy.

00:39:13.000 Two-time bantamweight champion, one of the best pound-for-pound fighters. 0.99

00:39:16.000 The way he beat Hennon Burrell, I was like, holy shit. 0.77

00:39:19.000 He went out and fought Hennon Burrell that he was sparring with. 0.98

00:39:22.000 Right, yeah, yeah.

00:39:23.000 His stuff, the stuff.

00:39:25.000 Some of his fights were amazing.

00:39:26.000 He's amazing.

00:39:27.000 It doesn't take away from the fact that he's amazing.

00:39:30.000 TJ's an amazing fighter. 1.00

00:39:31.000 But fuck, man. 1.00

00:39:33.000 To test positive for EPO in the Henry Cejudo fight. 1.00

00:39:38.000 It was also crazy to watch the progression, all the work he did, and how much he was getting better every fight.

00:39:44.000 So focused.

00:39:45.000 But you've got to think, if you're on EPO, How much does that really allow you to train extra time?

00:39:54.000 How much does that allow you to recover?

00:39:56.000 What is the quantifiable benefit?

00:39:58.000 It must be pretty significant because there's a lot of, you know, the cyclists, a lot of heavy-duty endurance athletes use it.

00:40:06.000 I almost want to try it.

00:40:09.000 You know, they say that these executives are trying it.

00:40:12.000 They're doing EPO and entering into triathlons and shit like that for bragging rights. 1.00

00:40:18.000 Yeah, just assholes. 1.00

00:40:19.000 Assholes with money are taking EPO. Like, really, I was reading the thing about an epidemic of... 1.00

00:40:25.000 Really, it boosts you that much.

00:40:26.000 Like, okay, you're going to take it and you're going to notice that you're able to, like, the other day, you could barely finish a loop around the Rose Bowl, a three-mile loop, and then you start taking it and you can get, what, five, six miles in.

00:40:38.000 I wonder.

00:40:39.000 I wonder.

00:40:40.000 I think what it does is it raises your threshold if you're already an elite endurance athlete, too.

00:40:45.000 I think for them, that's what it is.

00:40:46.000 It's like they're already looking for that extra edge.

00:40:48.000 So they're already an elite endurance athlete.

00:40:50.000 They're already in the Tour de France.

00:40:51.000 And they take that APO and it's like, what?

00:40:54.000 It just jacks them up.

00:40:56.000 They can just do more work.

00:40:57.000 They have more oxygen.

00:40:59.000 They don't run out of juice.

00:41:01.000 And for a guy like TJ, his style is so kinetic.

00:41:04.000 There's so much movement, explosion, switching stances.

00:41:07.000 He needs that juice.

00:41:08.000 It's not like a Yeah, man.

00:41:21.000 So, for me, I was like, man, I was going to come on Joe Rogan's show, and let's see, what could he talk about to make me uncomfortable to talk about?

00:41:29.000 Maybe some hard stoppages.

00:41:31.000 Man, talk about some hard stoppages.

00:41:36.000 Give me, what's the worst word?

00:41:37.000 Well, let me talk about when I made a mistake.

00:41:39.000 I don't want to talk about this.

00:41:41.000 You don't want to talk about DPL? No, I'm just being, because I have no answer for it.

00:41:44.000 I don't understand that.

00:41:45.000 It's like, all I wanted, like, it just doesn't feel like a good conversation because all I could do is just, it just get, like you said, it's just going to take away from...

00:41:54.000 What I've seen, and then the more I imagine about it, it's just going to be more takeaway, and then anything I could say or think about, I can't think of anything that's solution or...

00:42:05.000 Yeah, I don't think anybody...

00:42:10.000 I think we're in this stage right now where they're probably looking at the data going, okay, what does this signify and how many more people should we test?

00:42:19.000 Once they develop a new method of testing, that's the whole reason why they want to keep the old samples anyway, in case new, more sensitive methods of detecting are invented.

00:42:28.000 And you know about this stuff because I know that you're a science...

00:42:32.000 You would say nerd. 0.98

00:42:34.000 I'm a dork. 0.96

00:42:36.000 Especially when it comes to anything that can enhance this life that we have on this earth. 0.63

00:42:41.000 So yeah, I'm sure you know a lot about this stuff.

00:42:43.000 Well, I've had a really amazing conversation with many people about it.

00:42:51.000 And David Sinclair was one of the more recent ones who did this discussion about life extension and different anti-aging solutions and different things that they're coming up with.

00:43:02.000 But what I've come through with is, at the other end, is there are probably hundreds of thousands of people that are involved in either legitimate supplements or legitimate molecules or testing hormones on people or trying all these different things to try to figure out how to get the body to perform better.

00:43:27.000 Some of them are legal and some of them are illegal.

00:43:30.000 And that's where it gets strange.

00:43:32.000 You get the guy like the Ballco guy, Victor Conte, comes along and is like, look, I got one.

00:43:36.000 You just rub it on.

00:43:36.000 No one's going to know.

00:43:37.000 Shit! 1.00

00:43:38.000 They don't even know what this stuff is yet. 1.00

00:43:39.000 And for a while, that worked.

00:43:42.000 But while it worked, everybody's like, hmm, why is Barry Bonds getting so big?

00:43:48.000 People just started wrecking, like, come on, man.

00:43:52.000 Look at me, Sammy Sosa.

00:43:53.000 Look at me in the eye.

00:43:54.000 What are you doing?

00:43:55.000 And they all exhibited these obvious physiological changes where you could tell that whatever they were doing was really effective stuff.

00:44:04.000 There's hundreds of thousands of people working on that right now, all the time.

00:44:07.000 At all times.

00:44:08.000 Trying to get it better.

00:44:09.000 There's probably thousands of people that are trying to come up with stuff that sneaks past this testing.

00:44:15.000 Did you ever see...

00:44:16.000 That's why I just stick to Bikram Yoga, man.

00:44:18.000 It's a good move.

00:44:19.000 Did you ever see that Icarus documentary?

00:44:22.000 I think I did.

00:44:23.000 It was about who?

00:44:23.000 It was the Russian anti-doping scandal.

00:44:27.000 Oh, yeah.

00:44:27.000 Did you see that one?

00:44:28.000 I didn't see that.

00:44:29.000 I didn't see that.

00:44:29.000 It's amazing.

00:44:30.000 It's amazing.

00:44:32.000 The guy who made the documentary, the whole thing sort of happened by accident.

00:44:35.000 It's a guy named Brian Fogle.

00:44:37.000 And his documentary was on he was going to do a bike race.

00:44:44.000 And then he was going to come back the next year and do the bike race on steroids and see what the difference was.

00:44:50.000 And so he was going to document it all and he was going to have this Russian anti-doping guy.

00:44:57.000 This guy was going to oversee his program, tell him what to take and how much to take and when to take it.

00:45:02.000 Make sure he doesn't get cut.

00:45:04.000 No, yeah, make sure he didn't get caught.

00:45:06.000 That was one of them, I think.

00:45:07.000 I don't think they drug tested most of the things that he was interested in doing.

00:45:10.000 I think the thing he was doing, he just wanted to see how good he could get.

00:45:13.000 Okay, because you said anti-Russian anti-doping guy.

00:45:16.000 Yeah, this is why.

00:45:17.000 This is where it gets to it.

00:45:19.000 In the middle of him doing this, this Russian anti-doping guy, it comes out that the Russians cheated at the Sochi Olympics.

00:45:28.000 And this Russian anti-doping guy spills the beans to this guy and explains the Russian state sponsored doping program.

00:45:36.000 That they state-sponsored and doped all their athletes so that everyone was on steroids.

00:45:40.000 And that they hid the urine.

00:45:42.000 They had a secret separate room where they transferred the dirty urine through a hole in the wall and slipped out the good urine and they put it back in place.

00:45:53.000 So they substituted clean urine for the urine that was collected.

00:45:57.000 They opened up the bottles.

00:45:59.000 They found these microscopic scratches on these supposedly unopenable caps for these bottles, but they ran them under microscopes.

00:46:07.000 They're like, look, they were scratched.

00:46:08.000 These things have been opened.

00:46:09.000 The Russians had figured out a way to open the bottle without cracking the seal.

00:46:14.000 They swapped piss.

00:46:15.000 I mean, it was super sophisticated stuff.

00:46:18.000 And this guy details all of it by accident.

00:46:20.000 Just because he had hired this guy to give him drugs.

00:46:23.000 He was just trying to run a documentary.

00:46:26.000 Let's see how much better steroids make me at riding the bike.

00:46:29.000 And when all this stuff broke, he just came in at the right place at the right time.

00:46:33.000 And it's amazing.

00:46:35.000 It's amazing.

00:46:36.000 That's why Russia won all these gold medals in the Sochi Olympics. 0.98

00:46:39.000 They were all juiced to the tits. 0.90

00:46:42.000 And you're saying all of them, huh? 0.99

00:46:43.000 Yes!

00:46:43.000 It's just, for me, it's one of those things, I just don't have an answer to it.

00:46:49.000 I know there's always going to be people who are going to look for an advantage.

00:46:52.000 And I think as long as there's one person looking for an advantage, then I think there's some people are going to have the attitude that if there's an advantage out there, I'm a fool for not taking it.

00:47:03.000 The people who don't take it are people who are gifted in some way or have just a work ethic that goes beyond and it's a matter of pride that they don't do it.

00:47:12.000 You know what I mean?

00:47:13.000 Like when you're a sharp kid, it's like a matter of pride to never cheat on a test.

00:47:16.000 Whereas some people, that's their go-to.

00:47:18.000 Yeah, it's interesting.

00:47:19.000 It's like, what is, what's legal and what's not legal?

00:47:23.000 Like, what should you be allowed to do?

00:47:25.000 Should you be allowed to use cryotherapy?

00:47:27.000 What if it turns out that cryotherapy ramps up your hormones?

00:47:30.000 What if it turns out that cryotherapy speeds up your recovery that's commensurate with a steroid?

00:47:36.000 But why shouldn't you be able to use it?

00:47:38.000 You should be able to.

00:47:39.000 But I'm just saying.

00:47:40.000 Because I think the basis of it is that some of these other things are supposed to be maybe dangerous for you?

00:47:45.000 EPO for sure.

00:47:46.000 That's the reason.

00:47:47.000 That's the base reason.

00:47:48.000 Not really.

00:47:49.000 But I think that's our base reasoning, right?

00:47:52.000 I think the base reasoning is cheating.

00:47:54.000 Well, no, not just cheating because it's not cheating if everyone's doing it.

00:47:57.000 Well, for sure...

00:47:59.000 So there's supposed to be dangerous stuff.

00:48:02.000 Bodybuilding hormones.

00:48:03.000 Yeah, but I'm talking about hormones.

00:48:04.000 You can use vitamins or anything, or you can have good nutrition that makes sense.

00:48:09.000 Anything that's going to make you better at what you're doing.

00:48:11.000 But there's ones that we don't want people to use because they're dangerous to use for those reasons.

00:48:17.000 I think that's supposed to be the reason, right?

00:48:19.000 I do not know if that reason makes sense.

00:48:22.000 I'm not saying whether it makes sense or not, but I think that's supposed to be the...

00:48:25.000 Because when does it come down and say, well, we don't want you using any artificial supplements.

00:48:31.000 Vitamins, we want you to get all your vitamins from your food.

00:48:33.000 What you're doing is you're getting some of your vitamins artificially, and it's not the way a human being gets it.

00:48:38.000 So there's a line that's being drawn somewhere, and I'm saying the line is being drawn at what is supposed to be safe.

00:48:44.000 At one point it got drawn at that, and then...

00:48:48.000 Became something else, maybe.

00:48:49.000 I don't know.

00:48:50.000 Think if they were really concerned with safety, they wouldn't let them fight.

00:48:54.000 Well, we're talking about all sports.

00:48:56.000 I know, but I mean, especially with fighting, if you're really concerned with safety, let's just cancel the whole event.

00:49:03.000 Someone's going to get hurt.

00:49:04.000 Yeah.

00:49:06.000 Well, there's a lot of things to say.

00:49:07.000 You know that we don't like the fighters to jump on the top of the cage, too, because it's unsafe.

00:49:11.000 Yeah, it's because it's unsafe.

00:49:12.000 They were just kicking each other.

00:49:13.000 Yeah, kicking each other in the face.

00:49:14.000 Yeah, yeah, no. 0.95

00:49:15.000 Get down off that cage. 0.99

00:49:18.000 They don't get mad.

00:49:19.000 Celebrating.

00:49:19.000 They get mad.

00:49:20.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:49:21.000 Yeah, the celebrating thing is funny, man.

00:49:23.000 Let them celebrate.

00:49:24.000 Yeah, they don't like them to do a flip.

00:49:26.000 Well, one guy did a flip and landed on someone, so I get that.

00:49:31.000 But it's like, man, I trust a guy to get kicked in the neck, but I'm not going to trust him to do a flip.

00:49:35.000 He's probably done a flip before.

00:49:36.000 I don't know.

00:49:37.000 Yeah, I don't know either.

00:49:38.000 Gaethje almost landed on the guy's last fight.

00:49:41.000 Yeah, and that's what that was.

00:49:42.000 Somebody else gets hurt.

00:49:44.000 Now, I get that.

00:49:45.000 What if he killed a doctor? 0.98

00:49:46.000 How much of a suspension do you get if you kill a doctor with a backflip? 0.99

00:49:51.000 Like, for real.

00:49:52.000 Imagine if a doctor's running in and Gaethje off the top rope. 1.00

00:49:55.000 Dang! 0.99

00:49:56.000 And it would be the ultimate world star video.

00:50:00.000 Would the Beast, would Derek Lewis, would he have that on his Instagram?

00:50:06.000 Would he keep that on his Instagram if someone died if it was a UFC? He might.

00:50:11.000 He's so savage.

00:50:12.000 His Instagram's pretty funny.

00:50:14.000 It's the best Instagram in the game! 1.00

00:50:16.000 I saw one the other day of a guy on a motorcycle on his Instagram drove right into a fucking telephone pole. 0.99

00:50:22.000 Guy wasn't paying attention or something. 1.00

00:50:25.000 He went off the side of the road and hit a fucking telephone pole full on. 1.00

00:50:29.000 Ugh. 1.00

00:50:33.000 Oh, just slammed into this pole. 1.00

00:50:35.000 Like, fuck, man. 1.00

00:50:36.000 I gotta stay off Derek's Instagram. 1.00

00:50:37.000 Yeah, no, I don't like to watch that kind of stuff.

00:50:40.000 Yeah.

00:50:41.000 Yeah, you know, like, that guy's never gonna be the same.

00:50:43.000 He's either dead or he's never gonna be the same.

00:50:45.000 Yeah, like, the one I saw, what's that one we saw where the guy was gonna do a jump off a house into a...

00:50:51.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:50:52.000 I don't know what happened to that man. 0.98

00:50:53.000 That guy's got to be dead.

00:50:55.000 A lot of them are dead. 0.65

00:50:56.000 I mean, I've got something on my Instagram about the guy who got hit by a dolphin.

00:51:00.000 I just put that up there the day I saw somebody put it up.

00:51:02.000 The guy got hit by a dolphin?

00:51:03.000 Yeah, he was doing some paddleboarding.

00:51:05.000 And the dolphin was living life a little bit.

00:51:07.000 The dolphin was doing his thing.

00:51:08.000 You know how he's paddleboarding out and there's a wave coming?

00:51:11.000 No.

00:51:11.000 And then you can see the dolphins.

00:51:13.000 You know, they like to surf, so they get in the wave.

00:51:14.000 They're doing their thing.

00:51:15.000 And I think the dolphin sees him.

00:51:17.000 He's the only one who decides to come out of the water and get a little air.

00:51:20.000 He's like, oh, it's a paddleboarder.

00:51:21.000 Get a little air.

00:51:22.000 Pow! 0.98

00:51:23.000 And he fucks him up? 0.99

00:51:24.000 Yeah, yeah, here we go. 0.98

00:51:26.000 Whoa, look at this.

00:51:27.000 Back it.

00:51:28.000 Oh, that's 100% on purpose.

00:51:31.000 Like, it makes you wonder about dolphins.

00:51:33.000 Like, a dolphin's like, oh, what an opportunity.

00:51:34.000 Dude, that is 100% on purpose.

00:51:36.000 Yeah, I had to put that.

00:51:38.000 I had to post that on Instagram.

00:51:39.000 Yeah, that guy's alright.

00:51:41.000 Yeah, he's alright.

00:51:42.000 He's not dead.

00:51:42.000 He fell in the water.

00:51:43.000 He fell in the water.

00:51:43.000 But a dolphin's heavy.

00:51:45.000 Yeah, he got side-checked.

00:51:47.000 He got a little side-checked.

00:51:48.000 What do you do in that moment?

00:51:49.000 Do you hit him?

00:51:50.000 Do you hit the dolphin?

00:51:51.000 Do you punch it?

00:51:51.000 No, I have respect.

00:51:53.000 No, no, I punch out. 1.00

00:51:53.000 But he's trying to fuck you up. 1.00

00:51:54.000 I'm like, the dolphin got the air. 0.99

00:51:56.000 I'm like, hey, you're having a little fun.

00:51:58.000 Yeah, because how much does the dolphin weigh and it's his element?

00:52:01.000 It's a big animal.

00:52:02.000 Yeah, you got to get back to the shore.

00:52:03.000 That is pretty funny, though.

00:52:05.000 Yeah, walk that one off. 0.55

00:52:06.000 Walk that one off. 0.99

00:52:08.000 Yeah, you don't elbow it as it's coming at you.

00:52:10.000 Yeah, you don't want to piss him off.

00:52:12.000 You're in their neighborhood.

00:52:13.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:52:15.000 And that's clearly on purpose.

00:52:18.000 Yeah.

00:52:18.000 That's clearly on purpose.

00:52:19.000 It's like, you fucking dummies. 1.00

00:52:20.000 Get out of the way, bitch. 1.00

00:52:21.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:52:22.000 What are you doing?

00:52:22.000 You're not even surfing.

00:52:24.000 Yeah.

00:52:25.000 Paddleboarding.

00:52:27.000 Paddleboarding is surprisingly hard.

00:52:29.000 I wonder if his friends laughed.

00:52:31.000 Oh, yeah.

00:52:31.000 The other dolphins?

00:52:32.000 Yeah, he's talking to his friends.

00:52:33.000 Hey, hey, hey! 0.55

00:52:35.000 They probably thought it was awesome.

00:52:36.000 Yeah.

00:52:37.000 Yeah, I went paddleboarding.

00:52:39.000 It's not easy.

00:52:40.000 I didn't think it was hard.

00:52:42.000 Did it?

00:52:42.000 You stand straight like this.

00:52:45.000 You don't have to go.

00:52:46.000 But I tried to surf.

00:52:47.000 That was hard.

00:52:48.000 There was a lot of waves.

00:52:49.000 It was a little wobbly.

00:52:51.000 But I was like, I thought this would be way easier.

00:52:53.000 I fell twice.

00:52:57.000 Jamie's making fun of me.

00:52:59.000 Stop it, bro.

00:53:01.000 Yeah, um...

00:53:03.000 Paddle boarding is one of those things where it's like, it's just mostly using your core, right?

00:53:09.000 You're balancing everything out.

00:53:10.000 I'm not an expert at it.

00:53:12.000 I did it once or twice when I was in Hawaii, you know, hanging out with the fam.

00:53:16.000 It's like if you got like placid water, it'd actually be calming.

00:53:19.000 Mm-hmm.

00:53:21.000 Panel board.

00:53:21.000 You ever surf?

00:53:23.000 I'm trying.

00:53:24.000 I said I'm going to do it this year.

00:53:25.000 So I took in some lessons, taking some lessons.

00:53:27.000 I did a little bit.

00:53:28.000 I've been up on some waves.

00:53:30.000 The water was pushing me, but I can't call it surfing, what I was doing.

00:53:36.000 But I was in the water.

00:53:37.000 I was having fun.

00:53:39.000 That's a respectable thing to know how to do.

00:53:41.000 When you hear someone can surf, you're like, oh, wow.

00:53:44.000 Well, no, I've decided that I have to do it.

00:53:46.000 I've been living in California all my life.

00:53:47.000 I'm paying to be a surfer.

00:53:49.000 I live here.

00:53:50.000 I pay the...

00:53:51.000 Surfing tax?

00:53:52.000 Yeah, the surfing tax, but I'm not going to the beach and getting my money's worth.

00:53:56.000 I got to go and get it.

00:53:57.000 Yeah, when we think about how many people live in L.A., how few actually go to the beach.

00:54:03.000 Right. 0.99

00:54:04.000 The beach is not that crowded in comparison to how many fucking people live here. 0.99

00:54:09.000 It's one of those things where people just take it for granted. 0.98

00:54:12.000 So would you surf?

00:54:14.000 No.

00:54:14.000 No, I'm scared of sharks.

00:54:16.000 Yeah, so I started the Quest last year.

00:54:17.000 So last year I took a couple of lessons.

00:54:19.000 So this gets a little warmer.

00:54:21.000 I'm going to do it again.

00:54:22.000 We were thinking about doing a surfing challenge for Sober October.

00:54:26.000 It was going to be time spent up on a board for the entire month.

00:54:31.000 So we're going to have a contest.

00:54:32.000 Are you going to be doing it?

00:54:34.000 We haven't decided.

00:54:36.000 I think the guys are...

00:54:37.000 They don't want to do the surfing thing.

00:54:39.000 If you do it, let me know.

00:54:39.000 I want to do it with you.

00:54:41.000 Yeah?

00:54:41.000 Yeah.

00:54:41.000 Uh-oh.

00:54:42.000 It'd be a little cold in October, wouldn't it?

00:54:43.000 Maybe. 1.00

00:54:43.000 Yeah, that's the idea, pussy. 1.00

00:54:45.000 Okay. 1.00

00:54:45.000 All right. 1.00

00:54:46.000 Come on.

00:54:46.000 Oh, here.

00:54:46.000 I'll freak you out.

00:54:47.000 Fear.

00:54:48.000 Did you see this video?

00:54:48.000 Is it cold in October?

00:54:49.000 Barely.

00:54:50.000 It's like 85 degrees.

00:54:51.000 What is happening with this?

00:54:53.000 It happens very fast.

00:54:55.000 The way I saw it, this is a French Navy man jumped off a boat to celebrate, and as he's in the water here, A shark comes after him.

00:55:03.000 Yeah, it just comes out of nowhere. 0.99

00:55:04.000 No one can really see it, and then all of a sudden, right at the last second, they spot it, and they're like, oh shit, get the fuck out of the way. 0.98

00:55:10.000 It just nibbles at his foot. 0.99

00:55:11.000 It almost looks fake, but the way he reacts, it's not. 0.99

00:55:14.000 I don't think that shit's fake at all. 0.99

00:55:15.000 It just happened all of a sudden, he's just in the water. 1.00

00:55:17.000 Yeah, man, that's how it goes.

00:55:18.000 That's their world.

00:55:20.000 You can't even see anything in there.

00:55:22.000 That's the thing that freaks you out the most about the ocean, is the possibility.

00:55:27.000 It's like you're just looking down. 0.99

00:55:28.000 You don't see a goddamn thing. 0.99

00:55:29.000 And all of a sudden, the Meg. 0.99

00:55:31.000 Yeah.

00:55:32.000 I like that Australian guy.

00:55:33.000 Remember that Australian surfer?

00:55:34.000 And the shark was coming after him?

00:55:36.000 And he was just pushing him away.

00:55:38.000 And when he talked about it, he was looking like he wanted to bite me.

00:55:41.000 I decided I didn't want him to, so I just pushed him away a little bit.

00:55:44.000 Oh, yeah.

00:55:45.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:55:46.000 You just fought off a shark, man.

00:55:49.000 Yeah.

00:55:50.000 He's like, yeah, I didn't want to be bitten.

00:55:53.000 That's a good attitude to keep.

00:55:55.000 I'm not interested in this.

00:55:56.000 I'm not freaking out, but I'm not interested in this.

00:55:58.000 Yeah, you don't want to freak out, right?

00:56:01.000 If you freak out, they probably can sense it. 0.98

00:56:03.000 If you really spaz out in the water, they probably know, oh, this guy's scared as fuck. 0.99

00:56:08.000 It's time to eat. 0.99

00:56:09.000 This guy smells like food.

00:56:11.000 They apparently don't like to eat us.

00:56:13.000 Is this the guy right here?

00:56:14.000 I think so.

00:56:16.000 That's 8 million views.

00:56:17.000 Great White Shark Surprises Solitary Surfer.

00:56:21.000 I haven't seen this one.

00:56:22.000 This is not the one I'm talking about.

00:56:23.000 You were talking about the one he's swimming, right?

00:56:24.000 This could be something I don't want to see.

00:56:26.000 Look right behind him.

00:56:27.000 Oh, Jesus, Louisa. 0.67

00:56:30.000 Surf. 1.00

00:56:31.000 Fuck out of there. 1.00

00:56:32.000 No, I think he saw it. 1.00

00:56:33.000 He's like, yikes.

00:56:37.000 Oh, man, but he's paddling with his arm.

00:56:39.000 Looking like a seal.

00:56:40.000 With every time he paddles, the arm could disappear on him.

00:56:46.000 Surf. 1.00

00:56:47.000 Yeah, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. 1.00

00:56:49.000 But you're so helpless in their world. 1.00

00:56:52.000 It's like, you ever see what happens when a shark gets beached?

00:56:56.000 I was looking for this video the other day.

00:56:58.000 We found that one where you were like, just pick it up and throw it out there.

00:57:01.000 Try it in the water.

00:57:01.000 There's a video I saw of a girl literally doing that, just like a chick in a bikini.

00:57:04.000 It's a smaller shark, but she just grabs it by the tail, yanks it. 0.97

00:57:07.000 Good for her.

00:57:08.000 But the problem was with the one, sharks don't just start swimming when they get put in the water.

00:57:13.000 They need to be...

00:57:15.000 They can't stop moving, really.

00:57:16.000 So they've got to have a little shove.

00:57:18.000 It's hard to do, too.

00:57:19.000 They had to drag that shark out by a boat to sort of get it going to get water in its gills so it can breathe and whatnot.

00:57:25.000 Oh, okay.

00:57:26.000 That makes sense.

00:57:27.000 It's got to be going.

00:57:27.000 The water's got to come this way.

00:57:29.000 Because sharks are super weird in terms of their physiology.

00:57:32.000 Like, if they go upside down, they go to sleep.

00:57:36.000 Isn't that the case of sharks? 0.99

00:57:38.000 It's fucking strange. 0.99

00:57:40.000 And they have to keep moving. 0.99

00:57:42.000 I don't think they can breathe if they sit still.

00:57:45.000 Unless they find a spot where there's a nice little giraffe.

00:57:47.000 Oh, right, right, right.

00:57:48.000 This video also happened, too.

00:57:49.000 I can't show this one either because this is going to get taken down, but it's a girl getting pulled into the water. 0.97

00:57:53.000 She's trying to feed a shark off of a boat and it grabs her by the finger and just yanks her in. 0.99

00:57:58.000 Oh, Jesus Christ.

00:57:58.000 And everybody freaks out also.

00:58:00.000 What kind of shark is it?

00:58:02.000 It doesn't say.

00:58:05.000 But also that's in Australia, so it might be a great white. 1.00

00:58:07.000 Fuck that! 1.00

00:58:09.000 I understand. 1.00

00:58:10.000 Why did she think she could feed a shark with her fingers? 0.99

00:58:13.000 Someone probably told her she could.

00:58:14.000 And that was a bad idea.

00:58:15.000 Yeah, that's the worst.

00:58:17.000 You're probably right.

00:58:18.000 Because when you haven't done it before, you're going to ask a reasonable question.

00:58:23.000 Can the shark bite me and pull me in?

00:58:24.000 And then he's going to tell you something in an expert voice.

00:58:27.000 Like, no, he's not interested in you.

00:58:28.000 You don't look like a seal.

00:58:30.000 He's not going to try to...

00:58:31.000 Right. 1.00

00:58:32.000 Plus, she's probably hanging out with like three or four dudes that want to fuck her. 1.00

00:58:36.000 They're all drunk. 1.00

00:58:37.000 Yeah.

00:58:38.000 They want to show her a good experience.

00:58:41.000 Someone's giving her bad advice.

00:58:43.000 She gets half her finger removed. 1.00

00:58:45.000 Fuck, man. 1.00

00:58:45.000 Then nobody's happy. 1.00

00:58:46.000 Yeah.

00:58:47.000 Do you like going to Russia so much?

00:58:49.000 I do.

00:58:50.000 I do.

00:58:51.000 Do you enjoy it up there?

00:58:52.000 Yeah, I do.

00:58:52.000 I have a good time.

00:58:53.000 What's it like?

00:58:54.000 I like it.

00:58:55.000 Let me see.

00:58:57.000 Well, I like traveling.

00:59:00.000 So this is a cool thing.

00:59:01.000 I've got to travel so much.

00:59:02.000 I've got to see a lot of really cool places.

00:59:05.000 And Rush is one of them.

00:59:08.000 I like all the different places I've been there.

00:59:10.000 St. Peter's.

00:59:10.000 Because Rush is one thing.

00:59:11.000 It's like America. 0.79

00:59:13.000 Lots of different places wherever you are.

00:59:15.000 Like, you know, this...

00:59:17.000 America, to some people, could seem like a different country.

00:59:20.000 Oh, for sure.

00:59:22.000 So it's like that.

00:59:24.000 So I go to Moscow.

00:59:27.000 Moscow is one thing.

00:59:28.000 There's a lot of history, a lot of nice things to see.

00:59:32.000 St. Petersburg, same thing.

00:59:34.000 Do you feel safe when you're over there?

00:59:36.000 Well, I take everything at face value.

00:59:39.000 So that's the way I go through life.

00:59:41.000 Because if I was to try to always read some undercurrents or read what people tell me I'm supposed to experience, I'm never going to do anything.

00:59:50.000 Like, a long time ago in my travels, I was going to go do a Warner Butterbean show down in Alabama.

00:59:57.000 And my parents were like, man, you're going to Alabama, man.

01:00:00.000 Be safe down there.

01:00:01.000 Don't be doing all that stuff you do.

01:00:02.000 You know, it's going to be different.

01:00:03.000 Because of, you know, America and our history of racism.

01:00:07.000 And...

01:00:09.000 I went down there and I was, you know, this is what, you mind me telling a story?

01:00:13.000 Yeah, because this is a story.

01:00:14.000 So I went down there and I was at this show and some cops come up and they look like the cops from, you know, in the movies from the south that are supposed to scare you.

01:00:24.000 And I took a picture with them and they're like, and somebody else came to take a picture and they're like, oh, look what we started.

01:00:28.000 I go, no, man, I'm going to do this.

01:00:29.000 That's what I'm here to do.

01:00:30.000 I'm going to hang out with people.

01:00:32.000 I'm in referee fights and, you know, Talk to people if they want to talk.

01:00:36.000 So I took a lot of pictures.

01:00:37.000 They were impressed.

01:00:38.000 They're saying that, you know, they've seen other people, you know, tell people know about pictures.

01:00:43.000 And the guy all excited.

01:00:44.000 They're like, hey, hey, we want you to come out and pull people over with us.

01:00:50.000 I'm like, no, no, I don't want to do it.

01:00:52.000 I have no interest in doing that.

01:00:53.000 You know, I grew up in L.A., you know what I mean?

01:00:55.000 And they're getting pumped. 1.00

01:00:57.000 They're like, imagine, like, you're getting pulled over by Herb Ding, bitch. 1.00

01:01:00.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.99

01:01:00.000 And I'm like, no, no, I don't want to do it. 0.99

01:01:03.000 Then one guy was like, He goes, well, do something.

01:01:06.000 I mean, we want to make this do something.

01:01:08.000 Tase me or something hurt me.

01:01:09.000 So he grabs his taser gun and sticks the taser in my hand.

01:01:14.000 Jesus Christ.

01:01:15.000 And I'm sitting there. 1.00

01:01:15.000 And I'm like, what the fuck? 1.00

01:01:17.000 So I start tasing him, right? 0.99

01:01:18.000 I'm tasing this guy and he's like...

01:01:23.000 I'm like, so then after the tasing, one of the agents, one of the guys who's working with me comes up and tells him that he has some business to talk about with me.

01:01:35.000 I go, wait, what do you want to talk about?

01:01:36.000 He goes, man, I could see you were so uncomfortable with what was going on that I was like, thanks.

01:01:41.000 So I get back to my hotel room and I was thinking, I was like, man, You know, I'm worried about people prejudging and being intolerant.

01:01:52.000 I'm prejudging of these guys because of some history.

01:01:55.000 And these guys are really cool.

01:01:57.000 If I ever get the opportunity to see these guys, I'm going to be, you know, man.

01:02:01.000 And I did.

01:02:02.000 They came, like, right then.

01:02:03.000 The phone rings, I swear.

01:02:04.000 And they took me to an after party.

01:02:06.000 Really?

01:02:06.000 They're like, yeah, they took it, and it was like, the place looks like Roadhouse, and you know what I mean?

01:02:11.000 Like the whole, everything you see in a movie, like, you know, your wife's not going to be happy about that, and I'm going to catch you next week, one of those type of things.

01:02:19.000 Right.

01:02:20.000 Yeah, drove me to the airport with the lights on, skirt, you know, yeah.

01:02:24.000 I think I still have the picture of me tasing them.

01:02:27.000 I can show it to you.

01:02:29.000 It was a pretty cool experience.

01:02:32.000 So after that, I was like, man, whatever I think I know about things, I really don't.

01:02:39.000 And so I take things at face value.

01:02:43.000 Yeah, I've had good times in Alabama.

01:02:44.000 I've had good times in the South.

01:02:46.000 I think the world is changing, too.

01:02:48.000 I really do.

01:02:49.000 I think there's parts, especially in this country, where almost everywhere you can find cool people.

01:02:56.000 So, yeah, so, I mean, if, you know...

01:02:58.000 Oh my god, that is hilarious. 0.98

01:03:00.000 That is so ridiculous. 0.99

01:03:02.000 You should put this on your Instagram, can you? 0.99

01:03:04.000 Yeah, I can.

01:03:05.000 They wouldn't mind.

01:03:06.000 I've talked to those guys about it.

01:03:07.000 Don't you think he's going to get in trouble, though?

01:03:09.000 No, he said he's fine.

01:03:10.000 He said it'll be alright.

01:03:11.000 I thought he would get in trouble, so I didn't want to.

01:03:13.000 Yeah, that's why I haven't put it on.

01:03:14.000 That's why I never did it.

01:03:16.000 But I've actually talked to him.

01:03:19.000 So anyway, this...

01:03:23.000 Yeah, that's a big lesson to me.

01:03:25.000 Like, hey, don't think you know what's going on.

01:03:28.000 You know, take things at face value.

01:03:29.000 Try to be, you know...

01:03:30.000 So when you go to Russia, you take that attitude.

01:03:33.000 Like, let's just see what the experience...

01:03:34.000 So you have your own experience of what Russia's doing.

01:03:36.000 Yeah, I'm going to have my own experience and not let it be what anyone else's.

01:03:39.000 And also, I had been to Russia before.

01:03:41.000 I went in 95. I used to work for a company that made documentaries, these guys.

01:03:45.000 And I ended up going along to help them out.

01:03:46.000 It was the first time I'd ever left the U.S. It had a big effect on me, so...

01:03:53.000 Do you know how to speak it?

01:03:54.000 No, no, no.

01:03:55.000 I mean, I can do my instructions and I know some words.

01:03:59.000 I mean, I took some time to learn how to use the alphabet so I can get around.

01:04:03.000 The alphabet's crazy.

01:04:04.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:04:04.000 What is that?

01:04:05.000 It's like Celtic.

01:04:07.000 It's like ancient.

01:04:08.000 Cyrillic is what it's called.

01:04:09.000 Is that what it is?

01:04:10.000 Cyrillic?

01:04:10.000 It's a guy named Cyrill.

01:04:11.000 So I thought, well, how is it Cyrillic?

01:04:13.000 Yeah, but it's actually named after a guy who made it.

01:04:15.000 That's the Russian stuff.

01:04:18.000 What is that Celtic stuff that, you know, that...

01:04:20.000 Oh yeah, those runes.

01:04:22.000 The runes or something?

01:04:23.000 Yeah, that's what it looks like.

01:04:24.000 Some of the letters in Russia are like, why would they do it backwards? 0.90

01:04:28.000 Like it's the same letter that we have, but it's backwards?

01:04:31.000 Right, right.

01:04:31.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:04:31.000 That's a ya you're talking about.

01:04:33.000 Is that what it is?

01:04:34.000 Yeah, the one that looks like a backwards R. Yeah. 0.94

01:04:36.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:04:37.000 That's a ya.

01:04:38.000 What does that stand for over there?

01:04:40.000 This means ya.

01:04:41.000 Ya.

01:04:42.000 And we use it like I too, right?

01:04:43.000 Look at that chaos.

01:04:44.000 So that's how you say I. You say, yeah.

01:04:47.000 Look at their fucking language, man. 1.00

01:04:49.000 What's up with that H? What's up with that upside down H? The H is the N. What? 1.00

01:04:53.000 That's how you use an N. Oh my God.

01:04:56.000 So once you get used to reading, you always see pectopile everywhere you go, right?

01:05:01.000 What's that little H? That means restaurant.

01:05:02.000 What's that upside down little H that looks like a candle holder?

01:05:05.000 Yeah, right there.

01:05:05.000 What's that?

01:05:06.000 That's an upside down H. Uh-huh.

01:05:09.000 What happened there?

01:05:09.000 Looks like a Y. Someone took that H and dumped it on its head.

01:05:13.000 But it looks like H, doesn't it?

01:05:15.000 Like if you flipped it upside down... 0.96

01:05:18.000 It's like, look at the E below that, like what the fuck is that thing? 0.94

01:05:21.000 And so that's a ya, that backwards R? Yeah, yeah. 1.00

01:05:25.000 So you would say, you would use it like ya, you would say that word?

01:05:29.000 And use it like, just how we use I. Oh.

01:05:33.000 I, and we use it like I, and then we might use it in another reason too, yeah.

01:05:37.000 Wow.

01:05:38.000 Yeah.

01:05:39.000 I mean, it is kind of amazing how different the way we write is to the way Asian folks do. 1.00

01:05:46.000 That's the real freak out.

01:05:48.000 That's...

01:05:49.000 And I... I think you just have to learn it, right?

01:05:53.000 Each and every one of those.

01:05:57.000 It looks like it's pretty hard to learn.

01:06:01.000 Especially if it's not completely ingrained in your memory as a child.

01:06:05.000 Pick it up late in life.

01:06:06.000 I know there's some people who speak Mandarin, but they can't read it.

01:06:10.000 They can't read it. 1.00

01:06:13.000 Fuck, man. 1.00

01:06:13.000 It's alien. 1.00

01:06:14.000 Yeah.

01:06:14.000 It looks alien.

01:06:16.000 I mean, the fact that a whole different side of the world writes that way in these little characters.

01:06:22.000 So I do have some help when I go over there.

01:06:23.000 I'm going to tell you something.

01:06:25.000 I got married a few years ago.

01:06:27.000 My wife is Russian.

01:06:28.000 Ah, there you go.

01:06:29.000 And she speaks Chinese. 1.00

01:06:31.000 Damn. 0.99

01:06:31.000 So when I go to China, I read and write Chinese. 0.99

01:06:33.000 So when we go to these countries, it's easy.

01:06:34.000 Reads and writes Chinese? 0.96

01:06:35.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:06:35.000 It's easier to learn.

01:06:36.000 Wow.

01:06:37.000 And English or no?

01:06:38.000 English.

01:06:39.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:06:39.000 Yeah, that's how we get along.

01:06:40.000 Okay.

01:06:42.000 Some people are good with languages, man.

01:06:44.000 That's incredible.

01:06:45.000 Her Spanish is better than mine already.

01:06:46.000 Just got here.

01:06:47.000 To have Russian, which has its own use of the alphabet, and then Chinese, which is another whole deal, and English.

01:06:54.000 Does she have room in her head for anything else? 0.77

01:06:57.000 I know, yeah, yeah.

01:06:58.000 It seems like your hard drive would be full.

01:07:00.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:07:00.000 Just with those three languages.

01:07:02.000 Like, fuck. 1.00

01:07:03.000 Three hard languages, right? 1.00

01:07:05.000 Probably the hardest.

01:07:05.000 I heard that Russian is hard and English.

01:07:07.000 Well, I'm not going to say heard.

01:07:09.000 I've been trying to learn it.

01:07:10.000 It's hard.

01:07:10.000 There's so many ways to say something because they conjugate a lot.

01:07:14.000 I think they're a lot more than Spanish.

01:07:16.000 Really?

01:07:16.000 And that's what I have problems with.

01:07:17.000 You know, we all get Spanish words.

01:07:19.000 We live in L.A. But conjugating words, you know.

01:07:22.000 But she can do it easy because she's like, oh. 0.90

01:07:24.000 Because they conjugate so much more.

01:07:26.000 Hmm.

01:07:28.000 Yeah, that might be the three hardest languages to learn outside of maybe the other Asian languages.

01:07:34.000 Like Japanese is probably pretty difficult to learn.

01:07:36.000 Yeah, I heard the Vietnamese is tough.

01:07:37.000 Yeah.

01:07:38.000 And then, you know, you got those languages that you look at, you know, wow, that's crazy.

01:07:42.000 And then you see like ancient Hebrew.

01:07:43.000 Yeah.

01:07:44.000 You look at Hebrew language, like the way they write. 1.00

01:07:46.000 Like, what the fuck? 0.99

01:07:47.000 I don't know. 1.00

01:07:48.000 I bet Arabic's tough. 1.00

01:07:49.000 Arabic's got to be tough. 1.00

01:07:50.000 Yeah.

01:07:51.000 I mean, how many languages are there?

01:07:53.000 If you had to guess.

01:07:55.000 Hundreds is a lot.

01:07:56.000 Hundreds of variations of dialects.

01:07:59.000 Depending on where you are, even in Mexico, they don't speak the same Spanish down there.

01:08:04.000 Really?

01:08:04.000 Even in Spanish, yeah.

01:08:06.000 Because I took a couple of Spanish classes, but I can understand people from Spain easier for some reason.

01:08:14.000 I grew up right here.

01:08:15.000 It's harder for me to understand the way they speak Spanish.

01:08:18.000 Yeah.

01:08:18.000 My friend Adam Greentree, he lives in Australia, and he has a lot of experience with the indigenous people that live there, because he works in a mining company, and they deal with a lot of the aborigines, and they have the groups of people, they call them mobs that's what they call themselves okay instead of like a village or clan or they call themselves a mob

01:08:43.000 that's what that's what aborigines use and they have different languages for different mobs so like there might be hundreds of mobs in this area and they all have different languages so you drive I go how close he's like a few miles I go a few miles you know he would say kilometers maybe 20 hundred kilometers Like, so you go 100 kilometers, and you got a totally different language.

01:09:06.000 Oh, what?

01:09:08.000 That's all the different languages.

01:09:10.000 This is a map of all the...

01:09:11.000 But maybe they're similar, right?

01:09:13.000 Areas of the mobs.

01:09:14.000 I don't believe so. 1.00

01:09:15.000 I think they don't know what the fuck each other are saying. 0.99

01:09:17.000 Right, right. 1.00

01:09:18.000 That's why we can't understand Australians, right? 1.00

01:09:21.000 Right, but if you look at that, that's crazy.

01:09:23.000 Like, I don't know who's documenting...

01:09:25.000 All this stuff and whether or not they've saved these languages.

01:09:30.000 Because it's very likely that little ones of them will just go.

01:09:35.000 If these people assimilate to other populations or move out, you might lose these languages.

01:09:41.000 That's what I like about going to Russia, too, because there's so many different cultures and so many people.

01:09:45.000 And I like that.

01:09:46.000 I like people.

01:09:47.000 I get to go to Grozny.

01:09:52.000 What's Grozny?

01:09:53.000 Grozny is in Chechnya.

01:09:55.000 Yeah?

01:09:55.000 What's that like?

01:09:56.000 It was a really cool place.

01:09:58.000 I went to show you some pictures, went and looked around.

01:10:03.000 Well, because for me what's really cool about it is the energy that people have about developing over there right now.

01:10:08.000 Because the place, there was a war there.

01:10:10.000 You know about that, right?

01:10:11.000 Yeah, there was a war.

01:10:13.000 And right now they're really building up and they're really excited about it.

01:10:17.000 So I think it's just...

01:10:19.000 It's cool to go and see people who are really see a kind of a group mentality about moving forward.

01:10:28.000 So where exactly is this and what was their war?

01:10:32.000 You've heard of Chechnya?

01:10:33.000 Yeah.

01:10:34.000 Yeah, so they had a war with Russia.

01:10:36.000 Right.

01:10:36.000 Civil War.

01:10:37.000 Yeah, see, that's what it used to look like.

01:10:39.000 Yeah.

01:10:40.000 Now you've got a picture of it now, right?

01:10:42.000 Yeah.

01:10:43.000 So it's...

01:10:44.000 Ah, there it is now.

01:10:44.000 They're in the middle of rebuilding.

01:10:45.000 Yeah.

01:10:46.000 And that rebuild, they're energetic about it, and there's pride in it, and it's cool.

01:10:50.000 It's cool to be able to go there and get to see it.

01:10:53.000 That is cool to see something in the middle of a rebirth like that, right?

01:10:56.000 Yeah.

01:10:56.000 That's beautiful.

01:10:57.000 And in that area, a lot of places, yeah, there's a lot of rebirth energy going on.

01:11:01.000 Oh wow, so that's what it looked like right after the war? 0.99

01:11:04.000 Goddamn. 0.99

01:11:06.000 Wow. 1.00

01:11:09.000 That's a crazy image.

01:11:11.000 So, you've been doing this now, traveling around the world like this for how many years?

01:11:17.000 For a long time.

01:11:18.000 I think...

01:11:19.000 Let me think.

01:11:20.000 I mean, let's see.

01:11:22.000 I probably, with doing stuff with MMA and traveling for the sport, I started probably traveling internationally around 2003 or 2004. Wow.

01:11:32.000 But I got to travel around the U.S. a lot before that.

01:11:36.000 So that was really cool.

01:11:37.000 I got to go to places like...

01:11:39.000 You know, that I would never go to.

01:11:42.000 Indiana, someplace in Indiana I'd never go.

01:11:44.000 You know, and some of these, I've got to go all through them, throughout most of the states in the U.S. Because even before I was doing a lot of the UFC, I refereed for King of the Cage.

01:11:56.000 So by the time I got to the UFC, I got to referee more fights than anyone I knew.

01:12:00.000 I think I met you at a King of the Cage.

01:12:02.000 Yeah, way back in the day at King of the Cage we met there.

01:12:04.000 That was like 2000 what?

01:12:06.000 It was probably 2001 or 2000. That was when they were in Indian reservations, right?

01:12:10.000 Yeah, it was probably 2000. Because they started there in 2000. You were there at the early ones, right?

01:12:13.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:12:14.000 And when they first started.

01:12:15.000 Eddie was working for them.

01:12:17.000 Yeah, and my friend Bud Brutzman was one of the owners.

01:12:20.000 Yeah, Bud, yeah.

01:12:20.000 Yeah, Bud, man, Bud didn't, like, Terry decided to let me referee.

01:12:24.000 Bud was hard on me at first.

01:12:26.000 Really?

01:12:26.000 Yeah, Bud was rough on me.

01:12:27.000 But then he started to like me.

01:12:29.000 Bud was rough on me in the beginning.

01:12:30.000 He didn't want you to referee at first?

01:12:32.000 Larry was a referee.

01:12:33.000 That's how I started refereeing.

01:12:34.000 Larry was...

01:12:35.000 Larry was a referee and I trained with Larry.

01:12:37.000 And everybody liked Larry as a referee.

01:12:40.000 He's a really, you know, Larry's a really good guy and he did a lot.

01:12:44.000 He went and when he started doing it, he went and did a little research and, you know, talked to people from the commission from doing boxing and kickboxing.

01:12:54.000 And, you know, so he put inspectors in place and things like that.

01:12:57.000 And that was my job at first.

01:12:58.000 I would go out there, we'd bring our guys out and I would like kind of manage the inspecting team and, you And then I think they ended up working me too hard one show.

01:13:08.000 I was like, man, I came and volunteered my time.

01:13:10.000 I want to be able to see at least a fight or two.

01:13:11.000 I didn't just come to work for you.

01:13:13.000 And Terry was like, I'll make it up to you.

01:13:16.000 And I wanted to try a referee.

01:13:17.000 I was like, let me try a referee fight.

01:13:19.000 He goes, okay, do that.

01:13:20.000 And then I remember the first time I was like, man...

01:13:23.000 I think when I was like, wow, I really signed up for something here.

01:13:26.000 You know what I mean?

01:13:27.000 But yeah, that's kind of how that happened.

01:13:30.000 How many fights did you have?

01:13:32.000 I've had, I think, five.

01:13:35.000 And when did you decide?

01:13:37.000 Was it because of refereeing that they decided it was a conflict of interest for you to continue your career?

01:13:43.000 Yeah, well, see, I was never a real serious competitor.

01:13:46.000 It's like, I like to train, I like to do that, and then every now and then...

01:13:49.000 I want something to train for.

01:13:51.000 You know what I mean?

01:13:52.000 And so give me something to motivate me.

01:13:53.000 It'd be fun to do it, you know?

01:13:56.000 And what happened is someone told me that it was a conflict of interest and that I needed to pick one or the other.

01:14:03.000 And no one's going to miss me as a fighter.

01:14:08.000 So, you know, that's kind of how that worked out.

01:14:11.000 Well, you're definitely one of the best in the world, man.

01:14:13.000 I get happy when you're refereeing a fight because I know that it's going to be handled.

01:14:18.000 I mean, I agree with you on virtually every single time you and I have had a discussion about what should or shouldn't be done.

01:14:26.000 The one thing that drives me crazy about referees, and not you, but some referees, is breaks and stand-ups that don't necessarily need to happen.

01:14:35.000 When guys are working towards something and you can see there's a battle, the guy's trying to defend, the guy's trying to get out of half guard and get in the mount, and then you'll see a referee come over and just separate it because the crowd's booing or because they don't understand what's happening, how much of a struggle it is.

01:14:51.000 Especially clinch work.

01:14:53.000 Exactly.

01:14:54.000 When guys get a guy up against the cage, they're working for something.

01:14:58.000 They might stall each other out, but eventually someone might break down.

01:15:03.000 And this is how a guy like Nurmagomedov wins fights against elite guys.

01:15:07.000 This is how Randy Couture won a lot of fights.

01:15:10.000 It's a legitimate tactic.

01:15:11.000 Just because it doesn't look fun for you.

01:15:14.000 You know, like a guy beating a guy up against the cage, just short elbows, knees to the thighs.

01:15:19.000 You might think that that's not enough.

01:15:22.000 But that's a good way to wear a dude out.

01:15:26.000 And you keep doing that until eventually you break him.

01:15:28.000 Yeah, especially when you're someone like Stipe.

01:15:30.000 Yeah.

01:15:31.000 I think for me, it's helpful as I do my pre-fight instructions, you know, and so I tell the fighters what I expect and what to expect from me, you know what I mean?

01:15:40.000 So I don't want to, I want to interfere as little as possible.

01:15:43.000 Yeah, I know you do.

01:15:44.000 And so that's my goal, and so, you know, I give them instructions.

01:15:47.000 I tell them, you know, hey, work, work, what I expect, and, you know, I expect you to do something to...

01:15:52.000 I'm looking for big shots or advance your position.

01:15:55.000 And then they'll ask me, like, well, how long will you leave something stale?

01:15:59.000 I go, well, what is stale?

01:16:00.000 If both guys are relaxed, that's stale.

01:16:02.000 But like you're talking about, even up against the fence in a clinch, especially, that's where a lot of things are really getting decided.

01:16:08.000 And so we have to really see that play out, you know?

01:16:11.000 Especially a lot of the guys are, you know, if they're...

01:16:14.000 They're striking at each other.

01:16:15.000 Maybe in some of the other weight classes, they don't have that one punch always. 0.76

01:16:21.000 Some of the guys do, but not everyone does.

01:16:23.000 And that's where things are going to get cited in that clinch.

01:16:26.000 And if there's a tension, if there's a tension there, we need to see where that's going to go and let it work itself out.

01:16:31.000 I'm so glad you said that.

01:16:33.000 That's the perfect way to say it.

01:16:35.000 I 100% agree.

01:16:37.000 There's moments where it changes the course of the fight where it's really unfortunate.

01:16:41.000 You didn't referee Kamaru Usman and Damian Maia, did you?

01:16:45.000 I don't think so.

01:16:46.000 Whoever did that one, we don't even have to pull it up, but there was a moment in the first round when Damian Maia got a hold of Kamaru and was trying to take his back.

01:16:55.000 Standing.

01:16:56.000 And he had like one hook-in and a clinch and he was hanging on to him.

01:16:59.000 And the referee decided not enough was taking place.

01:17:01.000 They separated him.

01:17:02.000 I'm like, oh, you can't do that.

01:17:05.000 It's so hard to get a hold of.

01:17:07.000 Well, I hope it wasn't me who did that.

01:17:09.000 God, man.

01:17:10.000 Damian Maia about to get your back.

01:17:12.000 Whoa.

01:17:13.000 And say, no, no, that's not going anywhere.

01:17:15.000 Matt Serra went crazy.

01:17:16.000 You know, he has that podcast he does with Jim Norton.

01:17:20.000 And he's like, you just don't do that to the guy.

01:17:23.000 Like, he's got a hold of him.

01:17:24.000 Like, he might take his back here.

01:17:27.000 Like, and, you know, you saw what he did with Lyman Good when he takes your back.

01:17:31.000 Yeah.

01:17:31.000 And Lyman Good's a beast.

01:17:33.000 But when Damian Maia gets a hold, especially early in the round, you know, he's fresh, and he's got his back already.

01:17:41.000 And he has a lot of interesting takedowns from there, too.

01:17:43.000 While he's like, he goes back and forth with halfway taking your back, and then when you're defending the takedown, he starts taking your back.

01:17:50.000 Yeah.

01:17:51.000 Then he's working on that.

01:17:52.000 He works at a real interesting pace there.

01:17:56.000 It's stunning to watch him go through guys.

01:17:59.000 When he went through Rick Story, I was like, Jesus Christ.

01:18:02.000 Rick Story's a powerful wrestler.

01:18:05.000 When he takes his back and he gets him in that neck crank and you see the blood squirting out of his nose, you're like, whoa! 0.97

01:18:11.000 This is a heavy fucking squeeze this guy has. 0.96

01:18:15.000 Then he did it to Carlos Condit. 0.99

01:18:18.000 Who else has he done to?

01:18:19.000 He's done to a lot of guys.

01:18:20.000 He gets a hold of you.

01:18:21.000 He just squeezes the life out of you.

01:18:22.000 And when he gets on top, he seems so heavy on top.

01:18:25.000 Neil Magny, when he ran through Neil Magny, I was like, Jesus Christ.

01:18:29.000 Yeah, it's just such high-level jiu-jitsu.

01:18:32.000 Yeah, when he's on top, he's just...

01:18:34.000 Yeah, just no air, just smushes you.

01:18:38.000 I'm such a sucker for a specialist, whether it's a Stylebender specialist or a Striking specialist or a Damian Maia specialist.

01:18:45.000 I love watching the guys that are at the tip of the ability in whatever their discipline is.

01:18:52.000 And Stylebender, man, he seems to be getting better every time.

01:18:54.000 Oh, yeah.

01:18:55.000 Well, for him, it was just avoiding takedowns.

01:18:58.000 Like, he was so high-level as a kickboxer.

01:19:01.000 He's so clever.

01:19:02.000 Like, he's like, in my opinion, probably the very best in the sport at setting traps.

01:19:08.000 Yeah.

01:19:08.000 He'll, like, gauge you, see what you're doing, those switch stances.

01:19:11.000 He's getting some information.

01:19:13.000 Oh, yeah.

01:19:13.000 Yeah, it's not random.

01:19:15.000 And I like the way he deals with takedowns.

01:19:17.000 I mean, he knows where he's safe and where he's not.

01:19:19.000 You don't see that he's panicking.

01:19:20.000 He's like, yeah, it's got a minute.

01:19:21.000 Let this cook a minute.

01:19:22.000 But...

01:19:23.000 Yeah.

01:19:23.000 I see what this attempt looks like.

01:19:25.000 I see what this one looks like.

01:19:27.000 I'm walking it through.

01:19:28.000 Alright, now my party's going to start.

01:19:30.000 Yeah.

01:19:31.000 I talked to one of his guys he trains with.

01:19:33.000 I was refereeing some fights in China.

01:19:36.000 And it's one of the guys he trains with in New Zealand.

01:19:39.000 This guy was telling me so much and showing me different things about angles they do and things that they set up in their striking that I never knew or thought about.

01:19:47.000 This was before I saw him start fighting in the UFC. Everybody was aware of him, but he hadn't been in the UFC yet.

01:19:54.000 And man, these guys are really smart.

01:19:58.000 The techniques, like, this sport is growing so much, you know?

01:20:01.000 Yeah.

01:20:02.000 Yeah, that's what I was saying.

01:20:03.000 Like, when you're seeing, like, really high-level, super-technical strikers like him, like, who's a world-class, I mean, he easily could be world champion in many organizations as a kickboxer.

01:20:15.000 To see him now in the UFC and see guys having to deal with that, it's like, oh, okay.

01:20:20.000 Like, the Anderson fight's a great example.

01:20:22.000 We know how great Anderson is.

01:20:23.000 Yeah.

01:20:24.000 And he still looked pretty good against Stylebender, but you could see why Stylebender was special in that fight.

01:20:29.000 He had like another level of trickery.

01:20:32.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:20:33.000 And I mean, the stuff Jon Jones is doing.

01:20:35.000 Mm-hmm.

01:20:36.000 Yeah.

01:20:37.000 So you can't call him a specialist because, man, he does so many different styles, right?

01:20:41.000 He does everything.

01:20:41.000 It's really like a kung fu movie, right, where you change styles?

01:20:43.000 Yeah.

01:20:44.000 Yeah.

01:20:45.000 And then they do something, yeah.

01:20:47.000 Yeah.

01:20:48.000 Well, John's such a good kicker, too.

01:20:50.000 I mean, that's interesting that he started out as a wrestler, because how much of his style now is kicking you?

01:20:56.000 It's a giant part of his game, his utilization of those long-ass legs.

01:21:00.000 Right, and it's interesting how much time he...

01:21:04.000 It looks like he's getting information a lot, right?

01:21:06.000 And then all of a sudden, when he shifts gears, it's like, okay, I've gotten a lot of information, and here's what I'm going to do with it.

01:21:12.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:21:14.000 He's going to fight Tiago Santos, right?

01:21:18.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:21:20.000 That guy goes for broke.

01:21:22.000 I mean, he goes for broke.

01:21:25.000 It's interesting to watch him fight, because...

01:21:28.000 You want to talk about like a wild, reckless dude.

01:21:31.000 Like, Santos is dangerous.

01:21:34.000 John Jones should and probably will be a heavy favorite.

01:21:38.000 But Santos, he throws some haymakers.

01:21:42.000 No, it's going to be a great fight to watch.

01:21:46.000 Yeah, that guy's going to go out on his shield.

01:21:48.000 No, he puts pressure.

01:21:50.000 I think the interesting thing about...

01:21:51.000 Well, for me, what's interesting when I watch any of the heavier guys fight is they really have to understand where they're safe and where they're not.

01:21:58.000 That's something that John does really good.

01:22:00.000 How to be in the pocket and the places where he's safe.

01:22:04.000 He's the best ever at utilizing his reach.

01:22:06.000 No one's ever been better at controlling reach and then never letting a guy reset.

01:22:11.000 When guys try to reset, bam, he kicks him, bam, he kicks him again, bam, he kicks him again. 0.85

01:22:15.000 He knows when you're trying to get comfortable, when you're trying to settle in, and that's when he kicks you.

01:22:20.000 It's almost like he senses it, and he just starts battering you.

01:22:23.000 He sees, like, no, no, no breaks, no breaks, no breaks, no breaks, no breaks.

01:22:28.000 Speaking of no breaks, what about Max Holloway?

01:22:32.000 Oh, dude, he's the king of no breaks.

01:22:34.000 You get no breaks, Max Holloway.

01:22:36.000 There's no breaks.

01:22:38.000 Oh, man.

01:22:38.000 He just pours it on you.

01:22:40.000 He just keeps coming.

01:22:41.000 Yeah.

01:22:42.000 Keeps coming.

01:22:43.000 What happened?

01:22:44.000 Sorry.

01:22:45.000 He pours it on you. 1.00

01:22:46.000 He keeps coming in his fucking combinations. 0.99

01:22:48.000 Several high-profile fighters confirmed for UFC 239, including Michael Chiesa versus Diego Sanchez. 1.00

01:22:54.000 Holy shit. 0.95

01:22:56.000 There's one. 1.00

01:22:57.000 Michael Chiesa, pack a lunch, bro.

01:22:59.000 Mm-hmm.

01:23:00.000 Ningano vs.

01:23:01.000 Dos Santos.

01:23:03.000 That's a great one.

01:23:05.000 So that's Vegas.

01:23:06.000 Yeah, that's the current question we're talking about.

01:23:08.000 July 6th.

01:23:11.000 That's good.

01:23:12.000 Jan Blachowicz vs.

01:23:13.000 Luke Rockhold.

01:23:15.000 That's a great fight, too.

01:23:16.000 Rockhold's first fight at light heavyweight in New York.

01:23:18.000 How'd you learn how to say that?

01:23:20.000 Blachowicz?

01:23:22.000 I think I listened to someone else say it.

01:23:23.000 I just repeated the noise.

01:23:26.000 I had the hardest time with Zabit.

01:23:29.000 Zabit Magomed Sharapov.

01:23:32.000 That's a hard one.

01:23:33.000 That dude. 0.99

01:23:35.000 He's nasty. 0.97

01:23:36.000 He's fun to watch. 0.97

01:23:38.000 He's fun to watch. 1.00

01:23:39.000 That dude does some nasty shit in there. 1.00

01:23:41.000 So technical. 1.00

01:23:43.000 So crisp.

01:23:45.000 And again, long range.

01:23:47.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:23:48.000 But can take it, too, man. 0.98

01:23:50.000 I mean, he ate some bombs from Jeremy fucking Stevens, who's one of the biggest bomb throwers in the division. 0.99

01:23:56.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:23:56.000 Jeremy has some fucking weapons. 1.00

01:23:58.000 Yeah, no, that, yeah. 0.99

01:24:00.000 Yeah, I remember when that fight was on, I was like, man, I couldn't wait to watch that.

01:24:04.000 Yeah, that was a great fight.

01:24:05.000 It was a close fight, too.

01:24:06.000 Close fight.

01:24:07.000 I mean, I think the decision went as a beat, and Jeremy disputed it a little bit, but I... Man, that was a close fight.

01:24:14.000 Very good fight.

01:24:15.000 But I think the decision was correct.

01:24:17.000 But Zabit is, you know, he's an interesting style, right?

01:24:21.000 Really good grappling, crazy trips.

01:24:23.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:24:24.000 A lot of crazy, real, old-school, traditional martial arts kicks. 0.99

01:24:28.000 Throws real kicks and 360 roundhouse kicks and shit. 0.99

01:24:31.000 Right, right, right. 1.00

01:24:31.000 You know? 1.00

01:24:34.000 A lot of grace, a lot of balance there.

01:24:36.000 Yeah, there's so much talent now.

01:24:38.000 I mean, I can't remember a time where there was so many elite, high-level fighters that were so exciting to watch.

01:24:45.000 There's so many good guys.

01:24:47.000 There's really good guys.

01:24:48.000 People are slipping through.

01:24:51.000 And this sport is growing so much and growing...

01:24:55.000 Yeah, growing all over the world.

01:24:57.000 That's one of the cool things about the travel is you get to go see.

01:25:00.000 And some of these guys, some of these athletes in other parts of the world have a huge following and no one's ever heard of them.

01:25:06.000 This is one guy, Amiri Akbar.

01:25:11.000 He has, I think, almost a million followers on Instagram.

01:25:15.000 Really?

01:25:16.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:25:17.000 No shit. 0.99

01:25:18.000 He's a UFC guy? 1.00

01:25:19.000 No, no, no.

01:25:20.000 That's what I'm saying.

01:25:21.000 He's a guy who's never fought in the UFC. Where does he fight?

01:25:24.000 He fights in ACA. No kidding.

01:25:27.000 This is the Russian organization?

01:25:28.000 Yeah.

01:25:29.000 What's it called?

01:25:30.000 ACA. Yeah, what does it mean?

01:25:31.000 What does it stand for?

01:25:32.000 Absolute Championship Akhmat.

01:25:34.000 Akhmat.

01:25:35.000 What does Akhmat mean?

01:25:36.000 There he is.

01:25:38.000 1.6 million.

01:25:40.000 But look how handsome he is. 1.00

01:25:43.000 Damn. 0.99

01:25:44.000 You know, because I refereed a fight in Azerbaijan where he was at. 0.99

01:25:49.000 Is he a heavyweight?

01:25:49.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:25:51.000 How much does he weigh?

01:25:52.000 Yeah, he's a big heavyweight.

01:25:53.000 Do you think he passes a piss test?

01:25:56.000 You know, I'm not living in the man's pocket, so I don't know if anyone can pass a piss test.

01:26:02.000 I really don't know.

01:26:03.000 I really don't.

01:26:04.000 That's not something I... I'm not an expert on that.

01:26:06.000 I leave that to you, man.

01:26:07.000 I like that expression.

01:26:08.000 I think that's...

01:26:09.000 He likes wrestling.

01:26:10.000 Uh-huh.

01:26:12.000 I think a lot of fighters like wrestling right now.

01:26:14.000 They're seeing Ronda Rousey make that cha-ching!

01:26:16.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:26:17.000 Like, hmm, I could do that.

01:26:19.000 Do you watch pro wrestling?

01:26:20.000 I watch it occasionally when Tony Hinchcliffe makes me.

01:26:24.000 Why, do you watch it?

01:26:25.000 Nah.

01:26:26.000 No.

01:26:27.000 Yeah.

01:26:28.000 Yeah, I didn't think you would.

01:26:29.000 No, I didn't.

01:26:33.000 I don't get it either.

01:26:34.000 I'm not 14. When I was, I loved it.

01:26:36.000 No, when I was a kid, I mean, when I realized it was, I mean, I liked it when I was six.

01:26:41.000 I liked it a lot.

01:26:42.000 And don't get me wrong.

01:26:44.000 Not that I don't respect what they're doing.

01:26:46.000 I used to work out in a Noki Dojo, and I did some pro wrestling workouts with them just to see what they're doing.

01:26:52.000 And they're taking those bumps and some of the stuff they would do off the, like, there's no way I would be doing that with my body.

01:26:58.000 So all respect to it.

01:27:00.000 But it's just that it doesn't care to me.

01:27:02.000 Yeah.

01:27:02.000 I feel exactly the same way.

01:27:04.000 They should be respected as being incredibly tough.

01:27:07.000 That's a very difficult job.

01:27:09.000 Athletic, talented.

01:27:10.000 The guys that are really good at it, that make it look like art.

01:27:14.000 Yeah, I liked Jimmy Superflash when I was a kid.

01:27:16.000 I loved that guy.

01:27:17.000 Bob Backlund, remember him?

01:27:19.000 I don't remember.

01:27:20.000 Remember the Iron Sheik? 0.90

01:27:21.000 Oh yeah, of course I remember Iron Sheik. 0.91

01:27:24.000 Yeah, there's some fun times.

01:27:26.000 But yeah, I prefer real things.

01:27:28.000 I mean, I get it.

01:27:29.000 I get the appeal.

01:27:32.000 Once you watch really good fights, it's hard. 0.99

01:27:37.000 It's hard to give a shit about fake fights. 0.99

01:27:41.000 Yeah, I don't get it. 0.99

01:27:44.000 I didn't get it.

01:27:47.000 But you know what?

01:27:49.000 Some people love it.

01:27:50.000 And that's their thing.

01:27:52.000 Some people know every bit of it, every stick.

01:27:55.000 I don't know.

01:27:56.000 But I think there's probably, who knows, it might catch me.

01:28:00.000 Because I'm always trying to get hip to stuff.

01:28:02.000 So if there's something I don't enjoy...

01:28:04.000 I like to do it with somebody who enjoys it so I can kind of watch them and kind of learn how to enjoy it.

01:28:09.000 You know what I mean?

01:28:09.000 I don't know.

01:28:10.000 You're like, what's the part that you like about this?

01:28:12.000 You know what I mean?

01:28:13.000 Or, like, I didn't listen to a lot of country music, but then I used to work with Glideater Challenge a lot, and Ted Williams was like, you don't like country music, so he gave me country music education.

01:28:24.000 What's the matter what you don't like, Tom?

01:28:25.000 You can say this ain't good music.

01:28:27.000 And then I was like, okay, hey, I got you.

01:28:30.000 What stuff did you get into?

01:28:32.000 I started, when I started grabbing, I like the old stuff.

01:28:34.000 I like what kind?

01:28:35.000 I like Moreau.

01:28:37.000 I like Chris Christopherson Sunday morning coming down.

01:28:40.000 Yeah.

01:28:40.000 And I like your boy.

01:28:41.000 Your boy was on there.

01:28:43.000 Sturgill?

01:28:43.000 Yeah, Sturgill.

01:28:44.000 I like Sturgill.

01:28:44.000 Sturgill Simpson.

01:28:45.000 That shit is deep right there. 1.00

01:28:46.000 He's a bad motherfucker. 1.00

01:28:47.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:28:47.000 I seen Jesus play with him. 1.00

01:28:50.000 Yeah, he's legit.

01:28:52.000 He's legit.

01:28:53.000 That song is a well-written song, man.

01:28:56.000 He's a trip of a story, man.

01:28:58.000 He was working regular jobs, working on a railroad, and his wife told him, you could make a living doing music. 0.84

01:29:05.000 She's like, you know, you don't suck at this. 0.89

01:29:07.000 Mm-hmm. 0.98

01:29:08.000 So she told him to go for it.

01:29:10.000 And now he's one of the biggest music artists in the world.

01:29:13.000 Right, right.

01:29:14.000 It's crazy.

01:29:14.000 And it didn't take long either, man.

01:29:17.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:29:18.000 That turtle's all the way down.

01:29:19.000 That's a really cool song. 0.95

01:29:21.000 First time I met him, almost immediately after meeting him, we got high as fuck and did a podcast. 0.95

01:29:29.000 I mean, we were barbecued. 0.98

01:29:30.000 There's been a couple of times where, you know, he called me up after the podcast, so I was like, man, I didn't even know what the fuck we were talking about for the first 20 minutes, because we were so high. 0.53

01:29:40.000 Because if you live in Nashville, like, he lives in the Nashville area, you go out there and get the weed, they have pretty good weed.

01:29:47.000 It's okay.

01:29:48.000 But it's not California weed.

01:29:50.000 Like, California weed is preposterous.

01:29:52.000 Right, right. 1.00

01:29:52.000 If you're not used to that stuff, you smoke that shit and try to be on air. 1.00

01:29:56.000 Like, all of a sudden, now you're on a podcast, you're on air, and we're talking about, like... 0.99

01:30:01.000 Yeah, I don't think I could keep up.

01:30:03.000 Can you keep up with Joey?

01:30:06.000 No.

01:30:07.000 I went on his podcast, man, and he packed enough, I think, to get a village high.

01:30:12.000 He put it in this bowl and just...

01:30:16.000 Tore it up, emptied it out, did it again, and then ate a gummy bear and was like, alright.

01:30:22.000 Started to put on Pink Floyd.

01:30:24.000 He's the real deal, man.

01:30:26.000 Yeah.

01:30:27.000 You know?

01:30:27.000 I mean, he's free.

01:30:28.000 Joey Diaz is free.

01:30:30.000 Yeah.

01:30:30.000 You know?

01:30:30.000 I'm not that free, man.

01:30:32.000 I'm not that free.

01:30:33.000 I wish I could be, you know?

01:30:34.000 And I have respect for it.

01:30:37.000 Just be like you said, that freeness.

01:30:39.000 Yeah.

01:30:39.000 A lot of people are free.

01:30:40.000 Yeah.

01:30:41.000 But I'm not as free.

01:30:42.000 Like, I think your boys, a lot of your people seem kind of free.

01:30:46.000 Like who?

01:30:47.000 I think Eddie Bravo seems free.

01:30:48.000 He's a free thinker, man.

01:30:50.000 Yeah.

01:30:50.000 In all good ways and others.

01:30:54.000 Yeah, no, Eddie's, that's why his jiu-jitsu is so creative.

01:30:57.000 Yeah.

01:30:57.000 He's so open to ideas, you know?

01:31:01.000 I mean, he's also like, he doesn't like losing.

01:31:04.000 So he's like, I don't know, I'm going to figure out how to win.

01:31:06.000 I'm going to figure out how to beat this.

01:31:07.000 So he'll, like, look at a position and he'll have some weird, unorthodox take on how to get to a better spot or how to control the position better or how to finish from there. 0.99

01:31:18.000 And, like, you'll see, like, damn, like, his brain just works weird. 0.90

01:31:21.000 Yeah, just every, you know, if you have a conversation with him about stuff, you'll learn a lot just from him every time. 0.99

01:31:27.000 Like, okay, I know you're going to take away something from him.

01:31:30.000 Dude, he's... 0.98

01:31:31.000 I can't do one of the bits that he's doing, but he's doing stand-up now, and some of his shit is really fucking funny, man. 0.98

01:31:39.000 He made me laugh really hard last night. 0.98

01:31:42.000 Really?

01:31:42.000 I would have to do the bit.

01:31:43.000 I would have to tell you the bit to show you, like, I don't want to ruin his bit.

01:31:45.000 I've been seeing he does stand-up.

01:31:46.000 A lot.

01:31:47.000 Dude, he's getting funny, man.

01:31:50.000 He's getting really funny.

01:31:51.000 He's getting more and more comfortable doing it.

01:31:52.000 He was always funny.

01:31:53.000 Yeah.

01:31:54.000 I mean, he always used to make you laugh.

01:31:56.000 But he tried it way back in the day.

01:31:58.000 He tried stand-up many, many, many moons ago. 0.97

01:32:01.000 Like, fucking 2003 or 2004, something like that. 0.97

01:32:05.000 He tried it. 0.99

01:32:05.000 It just wasn't for him. 0.99

01:32:07.000 He was too busy with other stuff.

01:32:08.000 He was going to try it and then get good at it.

01:32:12.000 But he bombed a few times. 1.00

01:32:13.000 He's like, fuck this. 1.00

01:32:14.000 And then he tried it again, I want to say like four years ago. 0.99

01:32:18.000 Was it about that?

01:32:19.000 Three years ago?

01:32:20.000 Four years ago?

01:32:21.000 Sure.

01:32:22.000 Somewhere in that range.

01:32:23.000 And he's been doing it steady since.

01:32:26.000 He's actually pretty funny, man.

01:32:27.000 Like made me laugh really loud.

01:32:31.000 Yeah, because I've seen on social media that you guys have some shows where he's on there, you're on it a bunch of years.

01:32:36.000 Yeah, I saw Sam Tripoli shows.

01:32:37.000 Yeah, a lot of Sam shows.

01:32:39.000 He does a podcast, Tinfoil Hat Podcast with Sam.

01:32:43.000 And we're all real good friends.

01:32:45.000 And Sam is also a conspiracy nut, so they get together and talk about... 0.99

01:32:49.000 The Illuminati and shit. 0.99

01:32:51.000 Yeah, I have friends like that. 1.00

01:32:53.000 I go back and forth with conspiracies.

01:33:00.000 I have a love-hate relationship with conspiracies.

01:33:02.000 I love some of them.

01:33:03.000 Some of them are fascinating. 0.96

01:33:05.000 Some of them are like, okay, what the fuck happened there?

01:33:08.000 And then some of them are like, I can't do this anymore. 0.99

01:33:11.000 Yeah.

01:33:12.000 When I was younger, I used to think about it.

01:33:15.000 But then, I think when I had a kid, I didn't have enough time for that.

01:33:19.000 No time for nonsense.

01:33:21.000 Time becomes very precious.

01:33:23.000 And this becomes food how?

01:33:25.000 Exactly, exactly. 0.99

01:33:27.000 Not over here worrying about the fucking Illuminati. 0.99

01:33:29.000 I don't even know what that means. 0.99

01:33:30.000 What's the Illuminati?

01:33:31.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:33:32.000 I'm busy.

01:33:32.000 I gotta go.

01:33:34.000 But I get how people get sucked into that rabbit hole.

01:33:37.000 Yeah, I don't know.

01:33:38.000 I can see it.

01:33:39.000 I went into a rabbit hole the other day, but with aliens.

01:33:42.000 I watched three alien documentaries in a row.

01:33:46.000 I watched this one on Bob Lazar, who was a guy who claims that he worked at Area 51. It's very compelling.

01:33:52.000 Very interesting.

01:33:53.000 Is that the one you would suggest?

01:33:55.000 Yes.

01:33:56.000 That's the one I would suggest.

01:33:57.000 It's called Area 51. Bob Lazar, Area 51, and Flying Saucers, I think it's called.

01:34:02.000 It's on iTunes.

01:34:03.000 I'm going to write it down. 0.98

01:34:04.000 It's fucking good. 0.98

01:34:06.000 Because there's some things that this guy knew. 0.98

01:34:09.000 That it's almost certain that he worked where he said he worked.

01:34:14.000 That he worked at Area 51. The question becomes, he told the truth about all these things that have since been proven to be true.

01:34:22.000 Weird.

01:34:22.000 So he gave first cut at those truths, right?

01:34:26.000 Yeah.

01:34:26.000 Well, he did it a long time ago, too.

01:34:28.000 He came out about this like 30 years ago.

01:34:30.000 There was a Nevada television.

01:34:32.000 I think I've heard about this.

01:34:33.000 Bob Lazar.

01:34:33.000 He was worried about his life.

01:34:35.000 Here's what happened.

01:34:37.000 Apparently, the guy was working in this area doing research for whatever the government wanted him to do at Area 51. What he did there, who knows?

01:34:46.000 He gets fired from this job and then takes his friends to this viewing position in the mountains where they can see them flying saucers.

01:34:58.000 He was telling them, they fly them out of this base.

01:35:00.000 I'm going to bring you guys.

01:35:01.000 We're going to watch it.

01:35:02.000 They videotaped this on old school VHS tape.

01:35:06.000 You can see these flying saucers flying around Area 51.

01:35:09.000 And he says these are not being piloted by aliens.

01:35:15.000 These are being piloted by human beings, but that these are real devices.

01:35:19.000 These things are real.

01:35:20.000 It's a real vehicle.

01:35:22.000 And they got this real vehicle from some other civilization from somewhere in space.

01:35:28.000 And they had nine of them. 0.68

01:35:29.000 It sounds like total horseshit when you hear it. 0.79

01:35:31.000 But then you watch the video. 0.89

01:35:33.000 And so the questions come like, well, how did he know that they were going to be flying these things up there?

01:35:37.000 How did he know they were going to do them on Wednesdays?

01:35:40.000 How did he know where to be and where he could see it?

01:35:42.000 How did he know?

01:35:42.000 How did he know about the biometric data?

01:35:44.000 How did he know about element 115?

01:35:46.000 He was talking about this element, this man-made element that it's a real element that they've now identified. 0.78

01:35:54.000 But when he was talking about it in 1980, no one knew what the fuck he was talking about. 0.54

01:35:58.000 Or 1984 or whatever it was when he first got interviewed about this.

01:36:02.000 So when this guy is bringing this stuff up today and people are looking back at all the different things that he said that have since been proven to be true, especially the existence of Area 51, the government had to, at some point in time in the 90s, they had to say that they owned the base and say that it did in fact exist so that they could broaden the top secret area or the,

01:36:27.000 you know, like there's a do not enter They wanted to broaden that area so people couldn't be watching their crafts fly around like Bob Lazar was.

01:36:39.000 And when they did that, when they expanded the territory, that's when they had to actually admit that the base was real.

01:36:45.000 So he was proven to be correct on so many different things that he said, like explain how they get him out there, explain what the research was, and he said that they had these Things that run on some, they manipulate gravity in some way, and they're very small because these aliens are very small little creatures, like a child, like an eight, ten-year-old child. 0.99

01:37:07.000 It makes you go, what the fuck, man? 0.98

01:37:10.000 And so he talked about, he saw them, he knew how they operated. 0.99

01:37:13.000 The things that he knows that are true, that turned out to be true, that how could he have known them if he didn't work at Area 51 are the most compelling aspects of it.

01:37:23.000 And the fact that Area 51 was, at one point in time, by the government's take, it didn't exist.

01:37:30.000 And then it was like a legend.

01:37:31.000 And this was when he was talking about it.

01:37:34.000 And so, watching this documentary and seeing this guy 30 years later still basically saying exactly the same thing, but with a bunch of things that have been proven.

01:37:41.000 Have been proven, yeah, yeah, that is intense.

01:37:44.000 It's a trip, man. 0.99

01:37:45.000 I mean, if the government really did at one point in time have some craft that it got from another planet, what the fuck, man? 0.98

01:37:54.000 But the thing is, like, how would we take that? 0.97

01:37:56.000 How do you think people would take that if they found out?

01:38:00.000 How do you think they'd handle that? 0.98

01:38:03.000 If they really knew there was something that was so sophisticated that it could visit us from another planet, it could be here in minutes, land on the White House lawn, do whatever the fuck it wanted to, you couldn't even shoot it with bullets. 0.93

01:38:15.000 How would people take that? 0.96

01:38:16.000 I think that people would just keep going on, like with every other scare.

01:38:19.000 You think so?

01:38:20.000 Yeah, I think, okay, there could be a meteor that's supposed to hit us, right?

01:38:25.000 Right.

01:38:25.000 I mean, how do people take it?

01:38:26.000 I mean, that's what they're saying.

01:38:27.000 They're saying it could happen. 0.99

01:38:28.000 I think it would be a fuckfest in the streets. 0.98

01:38:31.000 But they say it could happen. 0.99

01:38:33.000 If you saw one coming.

01:38:34.000 Yeah, but I'm saying not if you saw one coming because you don't see the alien coming.

01:38:37.000 If people realize that, yeah, these guys could show up, right?

01:38:41.000 I don't know.

01:38:42.000 I remember the conspiracy that, I remember I did, remember that when there would be like these booklets of like Xerox stuff going on, like the one about AIDS and stuff like that?

01:38:52.000 Uh-huh.

01:38:53.000 Remember that one?

01:38:54.000 Yeah, that one had to be going for a while.

01:38:55.000 The AIDS conspiracy? 0.73

01:38:57.000 Dr. Strecker's memorandum?

01:38:59.000 Oh, yeah.

01:39:01.000 Yeah.

01:39:01.000 Yeah, people used to hand those out, right?

01:39:03.000 They were trying to tell people that AIDS was a hoax.

01:39:05.000 Not a hoax, that it was like all this stuff.

01:39:07.000 That it was not a hoax, a government conspiracy.

01:39:10.000 Yeah, that happened way out for a while.

01:39:12.000 I remember I was making copies and passing along.

01:39:16.000 That blew my mind.

01:39:17.000 Well, there was one doctor at one point in time that was trying to say that HIV does not cause AIDS. And we had him on way back in the day, early on.

01:39:27.000 What was that guy's name?

01:39:31.000 Dr. Peter Duesberg.

01:39:33.000 Yeah.

01:39:34.000 Yeah, that's what it is.

01:39:35.000 I just remembered it.

01:39:36.000 He is a professor at the University of California, Berkeley, I believe.

01:39:42.000 I think he's a biologist.

01:39:44.000 And his take was that HIV does not cause AIDS. That what causes AIDS is a compromised immune system.

01:39:51.000 That HIV is actually a weak virus and it shows up in the immune systems of people that are already compromised.

01:39:56.000 That's why you're finding it in these people.

01:39:58.000 That it's not the cause of their immune system being compromised.

01:40:01.000 It's a symptom of it. 0.98

01:40:02.000 And that what these people are really dying from is their whole system being fucked up by drugs. 0.98

01:40:09.000 That either they're taking AZT, which destroys their body. 0.97

01:40:13.000 You know, it was a cancer medication, like a chemotherapy that was so powerful, it was killing people quicker than the cancer was.

01:40:19.000 And then they switched it over to using it with people that had AIDS. Because in the early days, they would call AIDS the gay cancer.

01:40:27.000 There was all these different, like they were trying to figure out what it was and what it did.

01:40:31.000 And early on, this guy was saying this, and we had him on the podcast, and people got so mad.

01:40:37.000 They were so mad.

01:40:39.000 Giving this guy a platform to spread his propaganda and his lies, and I was like, wow.

01:40:44.000 But he is a professor, right?

01:40:46.000 He has done legitimate cancer research.

01:40:48.000 I mean, don't you want to listen to him?

01:40:51.000 And I wanted to get someone on to debate him.

01:40:54.000 But nobody wanted to debate him.

01:40:56.000 It was like trying to get someone to debate a Holocaust denier.

01:40:59.000 Nobody wants to give them the platform.

01:41:01.000 Nobody wants to talk to them.

01:41:02.000 Which I understand.

01:41:03.000 But those kinds of...

01:41:06.000 I mean, it's very highly unlikely that all these doctors are incorrect and are hiding the fact that HIV... And then now the fact that they've got these...

01:41:16.000 HIV medications that basically they can take people and make them HIV negative now.

01:41:21.000 Didn't they have like a couple people have tested HIV negative after medications?

01:41:27.000 Yeah, I don't know. 1.00

01:41:27.000 I'm too stupid. 1.00

01:41:29.000 Too stupid to understand what's really going on. 1.00

01:41:30.000 Yeah, that's for me. 1.00

01:41:32.000 I know that I'm not...

01:41:33.000 Like, when I watch some of those things, you know, some of them, they'll, like, lead off with these statements, and we all know, and we know this.

01:41:41.000 I'm like, I don't know.

01:41:41.000 I don't know.

01:41:42.000 Yeah, I don't know.

01:41:43.000 Yeah.

01:41:43.000 There's too much to know.

01:41:45.000 Yeah.

01:41:46.000 Yeah.

01:41:47.000 How did we get in the subject of AIDS? I don't know.

01:41:49.000 We're talking about conspiracy theories.

01:41:51.000 Oh, yeah.

01:41:51.000 And that was the one that I, that one, that one when it was out back in, what, 89 or something, 88, when those little pamphlets were going around.

01:41:57.000 Yeah.

01:41:58.000 I was like, yeah.

01:41:59.000 Well, marijuana and conspiracies go together like cookies and milk.

01:42:02.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:42:03.000 Right?

01:42:05.000 There's nothing like weed that starts, your gears turning.

01:42:08.000 And you start thinking, that's why a lot of people start thinking conspiracies are against them, too.

01:42:12.000 You get high and you start thinking that the world's closing in on you.

01:42:16.000 Everybody's watching you.

01:42:17.000 Surveillance.

01:42:19.000 But you probably don't feel like that when you get high.

01:42:21.000 No, I'm okay.

01:42:23.000 I do sometimes.

01:42:24.000 I kind of like it, though.

01:42:26.000 You know why I like it?

01:42:27.000 Because it ends.

01:42:28.000 And when it ends, you feel great.

01:42:30.000 It's almost like a brutal brain workout.

01:42:33.000 Like you go digging deep into your psyche.

01:42:36.000 And find out all the things you're scared of.

01:42:39.000 Right, yeah, no, it's like, it's work.

01:42:40.000 Yeah.

01:42:41.000 It's work.

01:42:41.000 You've done a little work.

01:42:42.000 You're like, taking a look at yourself, oh, you know, I never thought about me from that angle before.

01:42:46.000 Yeah, I like to do it on planes.

01:42:47.000 I better clean up mine, yeah. 1.00

01:42:48.000 Yeah, clean up your shit. 1.00

01:42:49.000 Yeah, yeah. 1.00

01:42:51.000 Especially if you're...

01:42:52.000 I think if you're in a high-pressure job and you're very busy, like I am, I think those little insights are very important. 0.79

01:42:59.000 Because you can get caught up in your own bullshit and what you're trying to do and not think of the impact you're having on the people that are around you. 0.92

01:43:05.000 Right, yeah, yeah. 0.99

01:43:06.000 And then that marijuana goes, hey. 0.84

01:43:08.000 Wow, yeah, yeah.

01:43:09.000 And you impact a lot of people.

01:43:12.000 Too many people.

01:43:13.000 Especially with, you know, like, you know, because I have things where, like, my philosophy might change, or a little thing, and you're talking to a lot of people, and you're like, oh, I don't know if I feel like that anymore.

01:43:24.000 Yeah.

01:43:25.000 Yeah.

01:43:25.000 You could switch, right?

01:43:27.000 Yeah.

01:43:28.000 You could definitely switch your opinions.

01:43:29.000 I do.

01:43:29.000 I switch my opinions.

01:43:30.000 I do, too.

01:43:31.000 Yeah.

01:43:32.000 Well, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, either.

01:43:34.000 I think everybody should be more flexible with their opinion.

01:43:37.000 I mean, obviously, there's opinions like rape is bad.

01:43:40.000 Don't murder people.

01:43:41.000 Don't steal.

01:43:43.000 Obviously those things, normal stuff that everybody agrees on, but then you get to a certain point and I think we get real married to the idea of our opinions being right and we get real married to the idea of winning an argument with our opinions.

01:43:55.000 I think that's when things get kind of squirrely because Then you start trying to calculate an argument to make your position sound better rather than considering your position for what it really is.

01:44:06.000 Yeah, and then also always trying to figure out and learn a little something.

01:44:12.000 Take something away from it.

01:44:13.000 Not to be a knee-jerk.

01:44:14.000 That's the thing.

01:44:14.000 You don't want to be a knee-jerk, right?

01:44:16.000 Exactly.

01:44:17.000 You know one I went real back and forth on pretty recently is universal basic income.

01:44:23.000 I see this guy.

01:44:25.000 Andrew Yang?

01:44:26.000 Yeah, Andrew Yang.

01:44:27.000 He's running for president on that platform.

01:44:30.000 That's part of his platform.

01:44:31.000 Right, right.

01:44:31.000 And I had him on the podcast.

01:44:33.000 Really enjoyed talking to him.

01:44:34.000 Really, really smart guy.

01:44:35.000 Very cool guy.

01:44:37.000 But when I'm talking to him and I'm thinking about it, I'm like...

01:44:42.000 Boy, I don't even know if that's enough.

01:44:44.000 What they're doing, the idea behind it, the idea is that automation is going to take all these jobs.

01:44:50.000 Automated cars.

01:44:52.000 It's going to wipe out a shitload of jobs, apparently.

01:44:55.000 And the idea is that if we don't have some form of universal basic income, there's going to be chaos.

01:45:00.000 But having just some amount of money so that people have their needs taken care of.

01:45:05.000 You always have food.

01:45:06.000 You always have shelter.

01:45:08.000 You're taken care of.

01:45:09.000 Now, go pursue your happiness.

01:45:12.000 The real problem with that, though, was, who was it that we had the other day where we were talking about meaning?

01:45:18.000 Was it Nick Christakis?

01:45:22.000 Is that who it was?

01:45:23.000 People need meaning for their life?

01:45:26.000 Who was that?

01:45:26.000 It might be him.

01:45:27.000 I don't think it was.

01:45:29.000 I think it was someone else.

01:45:31.000 Was it Ben Shapiro?

01:45:33.000 No.

01:45:34.000 I don't think it was.

01:45:35.000 But anyway, whoever it was that we were talking about it, we were saying that, does that give people a sense of meaning, though?

01:45:41.000 Because people like you, for instance...

01:45:44.000 You know your responsibility as a referee.

01:45:48.000 You know how significant it is.

01:45:49.000 You know you're one of the best in the world.

01:45:51.000 When you're refereeing a high-level championship bout, when the fighters find out that Herb Dean's the referee, they get excited.

01:45:56.000 They go, good.

01:45:57.000 One last thing I have to think about.

01:45:59.000 It's like you're putting so much of who you are into that job.

01:46:04.000 Do we know?

01:46:05.000 I'm looking for a piece of it.

01:46:09.000 I don't know yet.

01:46:09.000 Sorry.

01:46:10.000 No worries.

01:46:11.000 But, I mean...

01:46:13.000 Look, that's gigantic, right?

01:46:15.000 I mean, I know for you that that's enormous.

01:46:19.000 You take that very seriously.

01:46:24.000 Heart, maybe?

01:46:25.000 You guys talking about it?

01:46:26.000 Was it?

01:46:27.000 No, I don't think so.

01:46:28.000 Anyway, you have meaning in what you do.

01:46:31.000 If you just got money to lay around, and someone said, well, just go pursue your goals.

01:46:38.000 Okay, but I think what people really like to do when they're really happy is make a living doing something that has meaning.

01:46:46.000 To them.

01:46:47.000 Yeah, to them.

01:46:48.000 I don't know if it would...

01:46:50.000 Smooth things out if you just gave people money.

01:46:53.000 Yeah, I don't know how that would work.

01:46:54.000 I don't know how...

01:46:55.000 I don't...

01:46:55.000 Yeah, that one...

01:46:56.000 I saw what he's talking about.

01:46:58.000 I don't...

01:46:59.000 Like that one, that's...

01:47:00.000 I'm not smart enough for that one to know how that's going to work.

01:47:03.000 But he seemed to think that there was a lot of...

01:47:06.000 Ancillary benefits, things like lowered crime rates, you would have lowered instances of disease, lowered instances of people that were injured doing certain things.

01:47:21.000 If you had money and you made sure that people had a certain amount of money, it actually might cost the public less money.

01:47:28.000 I can see where he would come from with that because I think there's something, because there's a lot of people, we've probably met a lot of people who say that money isn't everything and there's these things that mean this, but it's only once you get enough money where you can step off the little hamster wheel for a second to start a...

01:47:47.000 Thinking about these other things.

01:47:48.000 Yeah, money's overwhelming, man.

01:47:50.000 Yeah.

01:47:50.000 I mean, if you don't have it, it's overwhelming.

01:47:52.000 I remember when I first got a development deal, when I was doing stand-up, and I got a big check, and I just immediately felt like, literally like a weight was lifted off my back.

01:48:04.000 Just a weight.

01:48:05.000 Like, I had a weight vest on, I took it off.

01:48:06.000 Whew! 0.99

01:48:08.000 Like, now I don't have to worry about food or rent or gas or anything for, like, at least a year.

01:48:15.000 Right, right.

01:48:16.000 And I was like, I don't know what to think about it.

01:48:18.000 And then I remember, like, thinking, God, I feel so free.

01:48:21.000 It feels so different because most people's lives who are in debt, most of the time, they have this constant fog of pressure.

01:48:29.000 No, yeah, yeah. 1.00

01:48:30.000 It's around them about those fucking bills, those goddamn bills. 1.00

01:48:33.000 It's always there. 1.00

01:48:34.000 It's creeping on you.

01:48:36.000 And then you get... 1.00

01:48:36.000 Credit cards, and you max those motherfuckers out. 1.00

01:48:39.000 And you're still trying to live these dreams that people are giving to you, that you're supposed to have these symbols, these status. 1.00

01:48:46.000 And that's even weird, because I'm not really into that stuff, but then again, I'm on television.

01:48:52.000 So...

01:48:54.000 I guess I can afford not to be.

01:48:55.000 I don't know.

01:48:56.000 You know what I mean?

01:48:56.000 Maybe that's why I like to think I'm deep.

01:48:58.000 Yeah, no, I don't need a Mercedes, man.

01:49:00.000 I'm just, you know, I'm just driving my car, my 2005. You know, I just need to get from point A to point B. But, you know, maybe that's why.

01:49:07.000 I don't know.

01:49:08.000 I don't know, man. 0.99

01:49:09.000 You say you have a 74 Bronco, too, so you must appreciate cool shit. 0.98

01:49:12.000 I did. 0.99

01:49:12.000 See, that's what I'm saying. 0.99

01:49:13.000 But that's the thing.

01:49:14.000 I was about to get rid of it, my friend said.

01:49:16.000 Because I was like, man, it doesn't mean what it used to mean to me.

01:49:18.000 But I do appreciate it.

01:49:20.000 And now my friend's like, hey, we're going to hook this thing up.

01:49:24.000 So I was like, all right, I sent it to him.

01:49:26.000 He says, I'm going to give you a deal.

01:49:27.000 We're going to get it all hooked up, right?

01:49:30.000 But I will admit that before it meant a lot more to me than it does now.

01:49:35.000 Kevin Hart came over here with a Bronco the other day.

01:49:37.000 I saw his Bronco.

01:49:38.000 The red one?

01:49:39.000 His is better than mine.

01:49:40.000 Yours is too.

01:49:41.000 Dude.

01:49:42.000 His is dope.

01:49:43.000 His makes me realize how cool the convertibles are when they're done as convertibles.

01:49:48.000 Right.

01:49:49.000 Like, he's just driving around with no top on them.

01:49:50.000 Like, oh, that's so nice.

01:49:52.000 That's how I was doing mine.

01:49:53.000 Because I had gotten mine as a convertible.

01:49:55.000 And I went and I got a top because I went to do a hard top on it.

01:49:58.000 Look at that.

01:49:58.000 But if you're taking it on and off, yeah.

01:50:00.000 That is a nasty Bronco. 1.00

01:50:03.000 You know, he has his own car company that does this shit. 1.00

01:50:07.000 He does this shit with his own company. 1.00

01:50:10.000 He's got like a hundred businesses. 0.99

01:50:11.000 Dude, I never met anybody as motivational or motivated as Kevin Hart.

01:50:17.000 No, I follow him on social media, and that man is...

01:50:22.000 And I saw what he was talking to you about, too.

01:50:25.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:50:26.000 He's very motivated.

01:50:27.000 He's the most authentically positive person I think I've ever met.

01:50:31.000 And look at that.

01:50:32.000 He's got an Eleanor Mustang. 1.00

01:50:33.000 That's a fucking beast, man. 1.00

01:50:36.000 They made that at his place too. 1.00

01:50:37.000 So he has his own fucking car place that makes him cars. 0.99

01:50:43.000 Look at that. 1.00

01:50:43.000 I mean, the dude's off the charts. 1.00

01:50:46.000 But more importantly, his outlook, his healthy, positive outlook and the way he just goes through life, it's very inspirational.

01:50:58.000 It's very positive, uplifting.

01:51:01.000 He's all just trying to help people in all these different facets of life, help people with financial advice, help people with motivation, help people to get the bullshit out of their life, get the clutter out of their life.

01:51:11.000 Yeah, no, I even like when I first started really liking it was when he was doing that thing where he was meeting up with people to run.

01:51:18.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:51:19.000 I was like, man, I like that.

01:51:21.000 I was going to bite that as much as I travel.

01:51:23.000 And I used to like to run, you know?

01:51:24.000 Well, you can always do that.

01:51:25.000 Other people do that.

01:51:26.000 My friend Cameron Haynes does that all the time.

01:51:28.000 He'll invite people to run with him places.

01:51:31.000 Yeah.

01:51:32.000 My thing with the yoga is I've been deciding to do it when I'm on the road.

01:51:35.000 So that's been cool is I got to do it in...

01:51:37.000 You going to Atlanta this weekend?

01:51:38.000 No.

01:51:39.000 What?

01:51:40.000 No, no, no, no.

01:51:41.000 What?

01:51:41.000 Didn't get invited.

01:51:42.000 What the fuck? 0.99

01:51:43.000 There's two, not one, two world championship fights. 0.99

01:51:46.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0.98

01:51:47.000 Damn, you didn't get invited to Atlanta? 0.99

01:51:49.000 Are they going to use Atlanta guys? 0.99

01:51:51.000 I'm not sure.

01:51:52.000 But there's a good Atlanta guy.

01:51:53.000 Oh, yeah.

01:51:54.000 There's a referee, Blake Grice.

01:51:56.000 Blake Grice, yeah.

01:51:57.000 Yeah, yeah, he's a good guy.

01:52:00.000 Isn't that Matt Grice's brother?

01:52:03.000 Is he?

01:52:03.000 I didn't know that.

01:52:04.000 I think one of the referees...

01:52:07.000 What's his name?

01:52:07.000 Who's old school?

01:52:08.000 Sometimes they use...

01:52:09.000 Remember that fighter?

01:52:10.000 He used to have the black dude with a patch of gray hair, but it makes his hair look real cool.

01:52:18.000 What's his name?

01:52:19.000 He's a real good fighter.

01:52:23.000 His son fights MMA now.

01:52:25.000 He came from a kickboxing background.

01:52:27.000 I don't know why I'm drawing a blank on his name. 0.99

01:52:28.000 Damn, you're drawing a blank with me too. 0.99

01:52:30.000 It's embarrassing because he's going to be mad at me like you don't know me. 1.00

01:52:33.000 I know him.

01:52:35.000 I'm feeling old right now.

01:52:37.000 That's the weed hanging out with Joey Diaz. 1.00

01:52:39.000 We'll fuck your head up for a couple months. 0.99

01:52:43.000 When was the last time you did Joey's podcast? 1.00

01:52:45.000 No, it was like, it was probably a couple years ago.

01:52:47.000 Oh, okay.

01:52:47.000 But it was fun.

01:52:48.000 I'm safe.

01:52:48.000 I'm recovered.

01:52:49.000 I'm safe.

01:52:49.000 Yeah, dude, he'll change your life over in that weird room.

01:52:53.000 He gives people those stars of death.

01:52:55.000 I know, yeah.

01:52:56.000 250 milligrams of THC. That's crazy.

01:53:00.000 250 milligrams?

01:53:02.000 Yeah, that's crazy.

01:53:03.000 That is a crazy amount.

01:53:05.000 Yeah.

01:53:06.000 That's not right.

01:53:07.000 No, that's not right.

01:53:09.000 No.

01:53:12.000 I'm still trying to think of this guy's name.

01:53:14.000 Yeah, I know you are.

01:53:15.000 Trying to jostle your memory in some way.

01:53:17.000 We'll come back to it.

01:53:18.000 We'll come back to it.

01:53:19.000 Yeah, there's a lot of guys who are former fighters that I think Frank Trigg's doing referee work now.

01:53:28.000 Yeah, Frank Trigg's really good.

01:53:30.000 I would like more guys to do that and I would love to have more former fighters be judges.

01:53:36.000 You know who I saw who was really good, who came and took my course is Chris Lieben.

01:53:41.000 Yeah?

01:53:42.000 Mm-hmm.

01:53:43.000 Good referee?

01:53:43.000 Well, he's been doing stuff in camo, and he's coming along, and he's doing it, yeah.

01:53:48.000 Nice.

01:53:48.000 He just won in a bare-knuckle boxing fight.

01:53:51.000 Yeah, I saw some clips of it.

01:53:53.000 It looked good.

01:53:55.000 Yeah, well, it's good for him, too.

01:53:56.000 With his style, his crazy style, that's actually a great move for him.

01:54:02.000 Right.

01:54:03.000 But he retired from fighting because he didn't want to fight anymore. 1.00

01:54:06.000 But I guess a little bit of time off, and he's like, fuck it. 0.99

01:54:09.000 You know, there was two organizations. 0.99

01:54:11.000 There used to be a different bare-knuckle boxing, but they went under.

01:54:14.000 And when they went under, they owe him like $90,000.

01:54:16.000 Yeah, they cheated him.

01:54:17.000 Yeah.

01:54:20.000 That's rough in his recourse is just let people know, yeah, these guys owe me money.

01:54:24.000 Did you see the clip that Crooklyn on Twitter put up of the owner of Bare Knuckle Boxing saying that a fighter didn't fight hard enough?

01:54:39.000 Yeah, I saw that, yeah.

01:54:43.000 And he was proud of it.

01:54:44.000 He's like, this is the way we do it.

01:54:45.000 See if you can find her tweet.

01:54:47.000 Yeah, this is the way we do it.

01:54:48.000 This is what you can expect. 0.98

01:54:50.000 Yeah, like that was ridiculous. 0.86

01:54:52.000 Are you just going to dock a guy's pay? 0.81

01:54:53.000 Yeah.

01:54:54.000 He took 50% of his money.

01:54:56.000 Yeah, because it didn't meet his standards.

01:54:58.000 Yeah, I just...

01:54:59.000 When he said, did the crowd cheer?

01:55:01.000 No, I think so.

01:55:03.000 I hope not.

01:55:04.000 I'd hate to see that.

01:55:06.000 Something the crowd could cheer for.

01:55:07.000 Yeah Mr. David Feldman who says I croak look at him was evil look at you guys having fun tonight make some noise But you know fighting championship is a brand new sport in a brand new company and we're here for action And we want action and we demand action from the fighters Mmm, the man didn't get action that last fight cuz rusty crowder wanted to run and

01:55:36.000 Therefore, he's given half his purse to Reggie Barnett.

01:55:40.000 Make some noise, Biloxi.

01:55:42.000 This is how we do it at Bare Knuckle. 0.94

01:55:44.000 You fight or you don't get paid.

01:55:50.000 That's not good.

01:55:52.000 It's not good that he thinks...

01:55:53.000 Zombie Prophet wrote, this can't be legal.

01:55:56.000 Let's see what Steffi Hayes wrote. 1.00

01:56:00.000 Crooklyn MMA. I wonder how that works.

01:56:02.000 She wrote, what the actual fuck is this hillbilly bullshit? 1.00

01:56:07.000 LAUGHTER Yeah, I concur. 1.00

01:56:14.000 What in the actual fuck is that hillbilly bullshit? 1.00

01:56:17.000 Now, in Pride they used to dock, right? 1.00

01:56:18.000 The yellow card was a penalty.

01:56:20.000 Yeah, but a yellow card is a penalty.

01:56:21.000 A penalty for being boring, most of them were.

01:56:23.000 Yeah, and sometimes irresponsibly.

01:56:26.000 Like, I've watched some of those yellow cards. 0.99

01:56:28.000 I'm like, you're crazy. 0.98

01:56:29.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:56:29.000 You're crazy. 1.00

01:56:29.000 Take that back. 1.00

01:56:30.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:56:31.000 You gave that guy a yellow card.

01:56:32.000 He can't fight any harder.

01:56:33.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:56:34.000 Or he can't engage.

01:56:35.000 He's going to get lit up. 0.99

01:56:36.000 There's moments where you have to try to figure out what the fuck to do. 0.98

01:56:39.000 You're on the outside. 0.98

01:56:40.000 You're trying to figure out how to get in.

01:56:42.000 Right, right, right.

01:56:43.000 And you're getting lit.

01:56:43.000 And then the referee's like, come on, fight, fight.

01:56:45.000 And you're like...

01:56:46.000 But in Asia, some of them, I used to work a lot at this Korean show, and they were figuring out their style, but man, when I first got there, they're like, so there's a yellow card. 0.99

01:56:56.000 Any backward step, a back step, any back step, we want to give a yellow card.

01:57:03.000 And I was like...

01:57:04.000 Lyoto Machida would never make any money.

01:57:06.000 That's what I'm saying.

01:57:06.000 I don't know if I can do with that.

01:57:08.000 I don't think that's...

01:57:08.000 I mean, you invited me over here for a reason.

01:57:11.000 I'm just going to do what I do and hope you bring me back.

01:57:14.000 But I don't know if I can do that.

01:57:15.000 Good for you.

01:57:17.000 Yeah, do you ever go to a place and the commissions or a promoter will tell you, hey, fights go to the ground.

01:57:24.000 I want you to give it just a couple of seconds and stand them up.

01:57:26.000 I go places and people tell me what to do all the time.

01:57:29.000 Really?

01:57:30.000 And I'm not going to do it.

01:57:31.000 Because people, at the end of the day, no one's going to know that you told me to do it.

01:57:35.000 It's going to be me doing it.

01:57:36.000 100%.

01:57:37.000 Thank you.

01:57:38.000 Thank you.

01:57:39.000 So I'm going to...

01:57:40.000 Yeah, I can't...

01:57:42.000 Yeah, basically...

01:57:43.000 I'm so glad you just said it that way, too.

01:57:45.000 Because people need to get that in their head.

01:57:47.000 Because I know that sometimes people do get affected by whether they want to please a promoter or please a crowd.

01:57:54.000 And they're not doing the right thing.

01:57:56.000 It's such a...

01:57:57.000 Tremendous responsibility.

01:57:58.000 Yeah, but you're the one who's going to be for some of those choices.

01:58:02.000 Those choices that they made, they're making those choices with your name.

01:58:06.000 Yeah, like the back step.

01:58:10.000 Kevin Johnson...

01:58:13.000 Answering the guy, but this is a tweet from the Bare Knuckle FC. Okay, Kevin Johnson, no money was taken from any fighters.

01:58:19.000 That statement did exactly what it was supposed to, what was supposed, it didn't say to, supposed and lit a fire under every single fighter's ass from that point on.

01:58:30.000 Giving you one of the greatest fights you'll ever see. 0.96

01:58:32.000 No, no, no. 1.00

01:58:35.000 No, those guys fought that way because that's who the fuck they are. 1.00

01:58:39.000 Right, right. 1.00

01:58:40.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:58:41.000 That had nothing to do with that.

01:58:45.000 Jason Knight and Artem Lobov...

01:58:48.000 Fight that way.

01:58:49.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:58:49.000 You can't claim credit for Jason Knight doing what he did.

01:58:56.000 And Artem Lobov. 0.99

01:58:57.000 Get the fuck out of here. 1.00

01:58:58.000 They would fight that way in a fucking Walmart parking lot. 1.00

01:59:02.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:59:02.000 That's how those guys would fight every time they fight. 1.00

01:59:04.000 They're animals.

01:59:05.000 Both those dudes are so tough.

01:59:08.000 Jason Knight has my favorite nickname.

01:59:10.000 Hick Diaz.

01:59:11.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:59:16.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1.00

01:59:18.000 He's a bad motherfucker. 1.00

01:59:19.000 Yeah, yeah. 1.00

01:59:20.000 He's a bad motherfucker. 1.00

01:59:22.000 But it was tough looking at their faces, man. 1.00

01:59:25.000 After the fight, I was like, man, I might have to rethink my position on bare-knuckle fights.

01:59:29.000 Look at their faces afterwards.

01:59:31.000 Yeah.

01:59:32.000 I mean, that is crazy.

01:59:34.000 You know, it's a lifetime of cuts.

01:59:37.000 Yeah.

01:59:38.000 All over the face.

01:59:39.000 I mean, look at his right under his nose.

01:59:41.000 That giant cut there.

01:59:43.000 That is a crazy cut, man. 0.84

01:59:45.000 He's stitched the fuck up all over the place. 0.91

01:59:48.000 That is rough, man. 0.94

01:59:50.000 His whole face got lacerated.

01:59:53.000 I mean, that is a lot of cuts.

01:59:56.000 Yeah.

01:59:57.000 That's more like a Muay Thai fight, and it really makes you think.

02:00:02.000 But again, I'm...

02:00:03.000 That's gotta be the most brutal, right?

02:00:04.000 Muay Thai? 0.84

02:00:05.000 Yeah, I believe so.

02:00:06.000 Muay Thai bare knuckle would be, like, what do they call it? 0.66

02:00:08.000 Lethwe?

02:00:09.000 Uh-huh.

02:00:09.000 Where they just, they kind of, like, wrap their hands up in a hand wrap.

02:00:13.000 Yeah.

02:00:13.000 It's not bare knuckle, but it's, um...

02:00:17.000 I think bare knuckle Muay Thai would be the hardest.

02:00:21.000 But the thing, what my argument was always, and it still remains this, that if you're not going to pad anything else, like you're not going to pad the shins, you're not going to pad the knees or the elbows, why are you padding the knuckles?

02:00:32.000 You're just giving people a false sense of security in terms of what is actually effective.

02:00:37.000 We don't want...

02:00:40.000 We don't want to practice something that doesn't really work if you don't have gloves on, right?

02:00:45.000 I mean, if every time you punch someone you don't have gloves on, your hand would break.

02:00:49.000 You would go, okay, clearly you can't punch people. 1.00

02:00:51.000 It's stupid. 1.00

02:00:51.000 You've got to use elbows and knees and you've got to do something else. 1.00

02:00:54.000 I see what you're saying.

02:00:54.000 Right, right, right.

02:00:55.000 So in order to fight with your knuckles as much as UFC fighters do, you pad everything.

02:01:02.000 You put wraps.

02:01:04.000 You put padding over it.

02:01:05.000 Boxing is like, it's a different world as soon as you take gloves off.

02:01:09.000 It's a different world.

02:01:10.000 Punches get in that you can't block.

02:01:12.000 It's way more consequence, a lot more cuts.

02:01:16.000 But at least now we know what actually works.

02:01:22.000 Right, I see what you're saying.

02:01:23.000 I wasn't thinking about it from that point of view.

02:01:24.000 Yeah, that is giving people, people are thinking that, yeah, you're right.

02:01:29.000 Like, people think that boxing, well, before MMA, everything was the most effective way of doing things.

02:01:34.000 But then, when you, MMA is a whole different from the size of the boxing glove, of the techniques you can do and what you can't do and what's going to work and what's not going to work.

02:01:44.000 Yeah.

02:01:44.000 It's supposed to be the sport of fighting, and you've basically brought it down to a raw form, but you're still covering the knuckles and patting the knuckles just because of perception.

02:01:56.000 And see, the problem with that guy, this bare-knuckle boxing guy, when he says some stupid shit like that, is that it reinforces what people don't like about combat sports, What people don't like about the idea of bare-knuckle boxing, that it's brutal and it's just there for chaos and blood. 0.97

02:02:14.000 We come for action. 0.99

02:02:15.000 We're here to see action.

02:02:17.000 People think that about MMA. And I don't think that...

02:02:22.000 I don't think that MMA athletes...

02:02:24.000 I think MMA athletes, I think, are the most honorable and well-behaved and, you know, not because of fear or anything, because of what the sport is.

02:02:35.000 Yes.

02:02:35.000 I mean, people, they know...

02:02:38.000 Because our aggressive nature is being put in a channeled and organized way, and it makes sense.

02:02:46.000 I'll tell you one of the most aggressive...

02:02:48.000 I run around the Rose Bowl.

02:02:49.000 When I see the...

02:02:50.000 Peloton come around?

02:02:51.000 That's one of the most aggressive things I've seen.

02:02:54.000 Man, those dudes are constantly cursing each other out and cursing everybody else out.

02:02:58.000 All the little soccer moms out there trying to run around the Rose Bowl. 1.00

02:03:01.000 Really?

02:03:02.000 Yeah, man.

02:03:03.000 But the guys throwing punches are never, you know, cursing people out, you know.

02:03:07.000 So the runners?

02:03:08.000 No, no.

02:03:09.000 What's a Peloton?

02:03:10.000 The guys on the bikes.

02:03:12.000 But isn't that like...

02:03:13.000 Oh, I thought Peloton, you stand still.

02:03:16.000 I don't know.

02:03:16.000 I'm talking about the guys at the Rose Bowl.

02:03:19.000 It's a bike race?

02:03:21.000 No, I'm saying they'll come, they'll train there.

02:03:22.000 Oh.

02:03:23.000 When they come out and they train...

02:03:24.000 So they're riding stationary bikes?

02:03:27.000 No, they're riding together.

02:03:28.000 They're riding together.

02:03:29.000 And they're out there...

02:03:30.000 They're not racing?

02:03:31.000 No, they're training.

02:03:33.000 And they're yelling at each other?

02:03:34.000 There's some aggressive...

02:03:35.000 Those dudes are aggressive. 0.99

02:03:36.000 Because they're cutting each other off and shit? 0.99

02:03:37.000 Is that what's happening? 0.99

02:03:38.000 Maybe just to follow the rules right, or just...

02:03:40.000 There's the word Peloton, which means a group of cyclists.

02:03:43.000 It's not the same as the brand.

02:03:44.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:03:45.000 Oh, okay.

02:03:46.000 So the cyclists get together in the racing.

02:03:48.000 I backed off of it because I didn't think I'd use the word properly.

02:03:50.000 You're right, you're right.

02:03:51.000 But I was like, whoa, wait a minute.

02:03:52.000 Wait a minute, I thought I used a big word and made a mistake.

02:03:55.000 It's a group of cyclists in a race.

02:03:56.000 All right, okay.

02:03:57.000 So these people, they're racing and they're cussing each other out.

02:04:01.000 They're training.

02:04:02.000 Oh, so they're not racing, they're just training together on the same track.

02:04:04.000 I think they're training together.

02:04:05.000 Well, that's at the Rose Bowl.

02:04:06.000 Okay, you've been to the Rose Bowl, right?

02:04:07.000 Yes.

02:04:07.000 You know there's a running loop?

02:04:09.000 Yeah.

02:04:10.000 You go and you can get in 5K around it real quick.

02:04:12.000 Yeah.

02:04:13.000 Those dudes are intense.

02:04:14.000 Really?

02:04:15.000 Way more intense than I see our athletes acting.

02:04:18.000 Well, because there's not as much consequences.

02:04:20.000 Right. 0.99

02:04:20.000 You know, they're not going to get off the bike and beat each other's asses. 0.99

02:04:23.000 They're just going to talk shit. 1.00

02:04:24.000 Really? 1.00

02:04:24.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:04:25.000 I bet they are.

02:04:26.000 Well, it's like...

02:04:26.000 One time I wish one of them would have come back and then he said...

02:04:29.000 It's like road rage, right?

02:04:32.000 Yeah.

02:04:32.000 You get road ragey when you're in your car.

02:04:35.000 I was like, your workout's done.

02:04:37.000 Don't do another lap.

02:04:38.000 I'm looking for you.

02:04:39.000 That's at the Rose Bowl.

02:04:40.000 Oh, okay. 0.99

02:04:41.000 And so they get mad at each other because they're trying to pass and shit. 0.99

02:04:44.000 Oh man, it's intense. 0.99

02:04:45.000 It's aggressive.

02:04:45.000 Maybe because there's probably rules to it, I think.

02:04:47.000 I think there's probably a lot of structure as to riding in a pack like that.

02:04:52.000 Right.

02:04:52.000 And then also they're trying to get their workout in.

02:04:55.000 And then there's other people out there trying to do other stuff.

02:04:58.000 And they're real serious about theirs.

02:05:00.000 I mean, you know.

02:05:01.000 Yeah.

02:05:02.000 It's aggressive.

02:05:06.000 Maybe it's just shocking to me because it doesn't look like it would be that aggressive. 0.98

02:05:10.000 Right, because when you think about fighters, especially guys even training together, it's rare that they swear at each other or talk shit to each other.

02:05:17.000 If two guys get in an argument, like if some of the guy doesn't let go, somebody tapped and people scream or something like that.

02:05:22.000 Yeah, and so that's the other thing.

02:05:24.000 I think that's why the respect has, because to get better, you have to put yourself in situations where you're going to be at a disadvantage and vulnerable.

02:05:32.000 And so you have to trust your training partners to have this level of respect, and you're going to have to reciprocate that.

02:05:37.000 Yeah, well, especially with things like leg locks.

02:05:40.000 Yes, exactly.

02:05:41.000 You've got to be really careful to let go quick.

02:05:43.000 And man, this leg lock game that people are doing now today.

02:05:46.000 I need to learn it.

02:05:47.000 I don't know it.

02:05:48.000 Yeah, see, that's the thing.

02:05:49.000 I used to think I was good at leg locks.

02:05:52.000 They used to be so simple.

02:05:53.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:05:54.000 And then, yeah, because I guess it wouldn't take much to be good at leg locks.

02:05:58.000 You just have to be willing to do them back in the day, right?

02:06:00.000 Everybody else was like, no, no, no.

02:06:03.000 It used to be like a simple setup.

02:06:05.000 You dive on a heel hook, dive on a toe hold. 0.62

02:06:08.000 Now dudes are very intense.

02:06:11.000 Yeah, and some people were good at it.

02:06:13.000 They were doing other things.

02:06:14.000 Yeah, like maybe the way they hide their feet or the way they do this.

02:06:17.000 Well, I got to say that the first guy in modern MMA that started really wrecking people with leg locks was Iminari.

02:06:25.000 Yeah.

02:06:25.000 And then Poharis.

02:06:26.000 Yeah.

02:06:26.000 It was Iminari and Poharis.

02:06:28.000 Those are the two guys.

02:06:29.000 I remember George Gurjell. 0.99

02:06:30.000 He fought Iminari, and Iminari ripped his fucking knee apart, man. 0.98

02:06:34.000 And, you know, Gurjell's a Brazilian jiu-jitsu player. 0.99

02:06:36.000 Yeah.

02:06:36.000 It was very early in the fight.

02:06:38.000 Iminari just did that Iminari roll, just dove on the knee, and next thing you know, it's got even a fucking inverted heel hook. 0.87

02:06:43.000 And then Paul Harris, anything, you can't defend. 0.84

02:06:47.000 It's like...

02:06:47.000 He's too strong.

02:06:48.000 Yeah, he's too strong.

02:06:49.000 So he can do...

02:06:50.000 And the way he's built, he can do a lot of stuff that just doesn't make sense.

02:06:55.000 Remember, he had that guy against the cage on a single.

02:06:57.000 It's like, nobody's worried about a leg lock from there.

02:07:00.000 Boom, invert it.

02:07:01.000 Those legs grab you. 0.99

02:07:02.000 You're not going anywhere.

02:07:04.000 Yeah.

02:07:05.000 Yeah, he was devastating. 1.00

02:07:07.000 He didn't let go And he would really, really mangle your fucking knee. 1.00

02:07:14.000 Right. 0.99

02:07:14.000 Yeah, so that's when I remember when... 0.99

02:07:17.000 Because I got to referee him in Brazil before he was doing a lot in the UFC. And so I kind of seen him in, I think one made me in a tournament format.

02:07:27.000 And I've never had any problem, but he stopped when I told him to.

02:07:33.000 There's one fight of his from, I think it was from Brazil...

02:07:37.000 Or he's got somebody in a leg lock and he's not letting go.

02:07:40.000 And I think it's a leg lock.

02:07:43.000 See if you can find it.

02:07:45.000 It's an early fight in his career, but it's crazy.

02:07:47.000 They're trying to pull him off the guy, and he's not letting go.

02:07:49.000 Like a pit bull.

02:07:51.000 Right, right.

02:07:52.000 And he's so strong.

02:07:53.000 So strong.

02:07:54.000 And apparently his upbringing was horrific.

02:07:57.000 Yeah, I heard he had a tough...

02:07:59.000 It's weird, because you see that behavior, and I always see him.

02:08:03.000 He seems like...

02:08:04.000 You know how some people have a cool energy when they're just around?

02:08:06.000 He always makes me smile when I see him, but I don't smile when I see that.

02:08:10.000 You know what I mean?

02:08:11.000 But he's one of those guys that's like...

02:08:13.000 Soft-spoken, easy going.

02:08:15.000 I think something happens to that guy when he engages.

02:08:19.000 When you're locked in Mortal Kombat, he becomes just pure savage.

02:08:24.000 Yeah, and he does leg locks that no one else does because no one else is strong enough to have those legs.

02:08:31.000 He doesn't care if both legs are there, arms in there, anything to it.

02:08:35.000 It's all scrapped.

02:08:38.000 It's all getting trash compacted.

02:08:40.000 He had a very interesting grappling match with Gary Tonin.

02:08:45.000 Did you ever see that?

02:08:45.000 I did see that, yeah.

02:08:47.000 I saw some clips of it, like some bits of it.

02:08:49.000 It really shows you how good Gary Tonin is.

02:08:51.000 Yeah, Tonin's amazing.

02:08:52.000 Yeah, he's great.

02:08:53.000 Because Paul Harris is so much bigger than him.

02:08:55.000 I mean, he's probably 40, 50 pounds heavier than him.

02:08:59.000 He's much bigger than him.

02:09:01.000 And to watch those guys go back and forth is really, really interesting.

02:09:05.000 Yeah, Tony, he's one of those people, you get a position, but it's still just so hard to...

02:09:15.000 Move away, you know?

02:09:16.000 Well, his grappling's so elite, and he's getting really good at striking now, too, and he's really dedicated to MMA, and he's undefeated.

02:09:22.000 He's been fighting in 1FC, which I'm excited.

02:09:25.000 I'm very excited about 1FC. I love what they're doing.

02:09:28.000 I love the attitude they're taking of making it about respect and martial arts and bringing it to, like, some old-school martial arts values. 0.87

02:09:35.000 They're fucking gigantic right now in Asia.

02:09:38.000 They put on great fights. 0.94

02:09:40.000 And they have the best fighter in the world.

02:09:41.000 They have Demetrius Mighty Mouse Johnson.

02:09:42.000 And what's really cool is because there's a lot of guys in Asia who are really exciting to watch at that weight.

02:09:49.000 So it's kind of exciting to see him get over there with all these guys.

02:09:52.000 I'm really excited about that.

02:09:53.000 Well, he got tested in his first fight.

02:09:55.000 I mean, he won by submission, but he got tested.

02:09:58.000 And Alvarez got stopped by that Russian dude, Timothy.

02:10:03.000 What is his last name?

02:10:05.000 The guy that stopped... 0.96

02:10:07.000 Goddammit, I forget his name. 0.69

02:10:09.000 The guy that stopped Eddie Alvarez?

02:10:10.000 Timothy?

02:10:11.000 It's Timothy, not Timothy.

02:10:13.000 It's some strange Russian name.

02:10:15.000 Timothy?

02:10:16.000 No, I don't remember his last name. 0.99

02:10:18.000 But anyway, he's a beast. 1.00

02:10:20.000 Nasty. 0.99

02:10:21.000 Nastyukin? 0.91

02:10:22.000 Nastyukin, yeah. 1.00

02:10:23.000 Yeah, that's right.

02:10:24.000 Nasty is in his last name.

02:10:25.000 Nastyukin. 1.00

02:10:26.000 The first letters of his last name are nasty.

02:10:30.000 Timothy Nastyukin.

02:10:31.000 Did you see that fight?

02:10:32.000 No.

02:10:33.000 Play the stoppage.

02:10:34.000 Play the knockout, the far right one.

02:10:37.000 No, the far right one.

02:10:39.000 That one right there.

02:10:41.000 Oh yeah?

02:10:42.000 Okay.

02:10:42.000 Just play right there.

02:10:44.000 There you go. 0.98

02:10:45.000 This dude is, this Russian cat's a beast, man. 1.00

02:10:49.000 He was very seasoned in there, like really relentless with his pressure and super confident in his power.

02:10:55.000 He stunned Alvarez a couple times in that fight.

02:10:58.000 I was pretty shocked.

02:10:59.000 I think there are a lot of guys that aren't in the UFC that are capable of fighting in the UFC. That's what I'm saying.

02:11:07.000 Definitely.

02:11:11.000 I get to see a lot of those guys at those shows in Russia.

02:11:14.000 See, I'm watching this cat, and this is not like a freak knockout or something like that.

02:11:18.000 This guy's got real smart technical striking, and he also puts tremendous pressure on, and he's also got big power.

02:11:26.000 And their amateur combat sports, like combat sambo and things like that, they get a lot of experience.

02:11:33.000 Yeah.

02:11:34.000 Well, when you see a guy like Khabib Nurmagomedov just run through people in the UFC, and you know where that guy's from, you gotta go, well, how many more of those guys are over there?

02:11:44.000 You know?

02:11:45.000 Yeah.

02:11:45.000 The Dagestan crew.

02:11:47.000 And that's Zabit too.

02:11:48.000 He's from Dagestan.

02:11:49.000 Isn't Islam Makachev, isn't he from that part of the world as well?

02:11:52.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:11:53.000 That's where...

02:11:54.000 Killers.

02:11:55.000 There he is. 0.99

02:11:55.000 Boom, boom, boom. 0.99

02:11:57.000 Boom, boom.

02:11:58.000 That's it.

02:11:59.000 Yeah.

02:11:59.000 So the caucuses, right?

02:12:01.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:12:03.000 That's a warrior group of people.

02:12:04.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:12:05.000 There's a lot of...

02:12:07.000 History.

02:12:07.000 So I get to go there a lot.

02:12:08.000 I mean, it's really exciting.

02:12:10.000 I get to see a lot of really cool stuff.

02:12:11.000 What is Dagestan like?

02:12:13.000 Okay, Dagestan was a blast.

02:12:15.000 Dagestan was fun, man.

02:12:16.000 Really?

02:12:16.000 Yeah, I went there.

02:12:18.000 You know, I was there with – it was also at the show.

02:12:21.000 They brought over Verdun, and those guys weren't working.

02:12:25.000 Verdun and Anderson Silva, those guys were watching fights.

02:12:28.000 But I was working.

02:12:29.000 But yeah, they took us around.

02:12:31.000 They showed us a lot of really cool stuff.

02:12:32.000 I went to like, you know, school where some kids wrestling school, like a lot of schools that were athletic with an athletic orientation and seeing these little kids.

02:12:44.000 They put this little kid up on a bar and had him doing pull ups, man.

02:12:47.000 He was doing pull ups.

02:12:49.000 I mean, this little kid, little bitty kid.

02:12:50.000 I mean, it must have been at least 15 pull ups.

02:12:53.000 And then how long was it?

02:12:54.000 I mean, he was a little kid.

02:12:56.000 Like five, six?

02:12:56.000 No, like something like nine or something like that.

02:12:59.000 And when the coach pulled him off, he was mad.

02:13:02.000 You could see he was mad.

02:13:03.000 He's like, man, I got more.

02:13:04.000 You know what I mean?

02:13:04.000 He was mad.

02:13:05.000 Like, well, let's show the people what I could do.

02:13:07.000 And the crowd, they loved MMA so much.

02:13:10.000 They were like, it was like, you know what it was like?

02:13:12.000 It was like, you ever watch those videos of like the Beatles?

02:13:15.000 You know what I mean?

02:13:16.000 When all the people going crazy, but it's not teenage girls. 0.91

02:13:18.000 It's like a bunch of hard little wrestlers.

02:13:20.000 Wow.

02:13:21.000 Just packs like, ah!

02:13:22.000 Yeah, I've got some pictures I have from somewhere.

02:13:24.000 Yeah, I can show them to you.

02:13:25.000 Wow.

02:13:26.000 So it's that popular over there.

02:13:28.000 Yeah.

02:13:29.000 That's...

02:13:29.000 Now...

02:13:31.000 Did you see the video of those dudes when Khabib beat Conor and they're shooting machine guns into the air?

02:13:38.000 Oh, I didn't see that, but I saw one of my friends from that area sent me some pictures.

02:13:43.000 She was out on the street.

02:13:44.000 She sent some pictures to my wife of them, some video of guys like, yeah, and horse racing.

02:13:52.000 Had horses.

02:13:53.000 There were horses down...

02:13:55.000 Yeah, some video.

02:13:56.000 That was like, oh, yeah.

02:13:57.000 Or it's racing and shooting guns at the same time.

02:13:59.000 Yeah, people were so excited about that.

02:14:03.000 That was some energy there, yeah.

02:14:04.000 Can you imagine you're from a place that many parts of the world have never heard of?

02:14:08.000 Mm-hmm.

02:14:09.000 I don't know how much I thought about Dagestan before Khabib came around. 1.00

02:14:15.000 And then now they have not just a world champion, but a guy who smashed the most famous fighter on the planet.

02:14:22.000 Right, right.

02:14:23.000 Or one of the most famous fighters on the planet.

02:14:25.000 It's like him and Floyd Mayweather are probably the two most famous fighters.

02:14:28.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:14:29.000 Khabib just ran through him.

02:14:32.000 So, like, he's a huge, huge star over there.

02:14:37.000 Yeah, no, no, yeah.

02:14:38.000 He's huge.

02:14:40.000 So, yeah, that, yeah, no, it's a fun place to go.

02:14:44.000 Matter of fact, yeah, I got to see a lot of cool stuff.

02:14:46.000 Look at this.

02:14:47.000 Dagestan explodes a delight after Khabib defeats McGregor.

02:14:51.000 They're all going crazy with their hats on.

02:14:54.000 Mm-hmm.

02:14:56.000 Look at people out in the street cheering.

02:14:59.000 Yeah.

02:14:59.000 Wow.

02:15:01.000 Yeah, man. 0.99

02:15:03.000 Conor's, all the shit talk leading up to that fight, man, did that backfire. 0.99

02:15:08.000 Like, on some people it works, and on some people it's just, it doesn't work at all, and it just makes him more relentless. 0.99

02:15:16.000 When Khabib was hitting him, going, let's talk now. 0.98

02:15:18.000 Come on, let's talk now.

02:15:19.000 Well, that's the thing with him, you know, because he talks the whole time, right?

02:15:22.000 Yeah, from the beginning of the day, he starts talking.

02:15:25.000 Khabib does? 0.60

02:15:25.000 Oh, yeah, he starts talking. 0.60

02:15:26.000 Really?

02:15:27.000 What does he say?

02:15:28.000 Well, didn't you hear when he was fighting Johnson?

02:15:30.000 Yes, he's telling him, give up.

02:15:31.000 Give up.

02:15:31.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:15:32.000 You know, I need that title shot.

02:15:33.000 Give up.

02:15:34.000 And then he got him in that horrific Kimura. 0.93

02:15:36.000 I was watching that Kimura. 0.99

02:15:37.000 I was like, don't just fucking tap. 0.99

02:15:38.000 Come on, man. 0.99

02:15:39.000 Tap.

02:15:40.000 Come on, man.

02:15:42.000 Just feeling everything going pop, snap, pop.

02:15:47.000 They didn't want to tap, man.

02:15:50.000 Johnson's a tough guy.

02:15:51.000 Yeah, but the smack talk, I mean, that's what Conor does.

02:15:56.000 Yeah.

02:15:57.000 Yeah, but this was a different level.

02:15:59.000 Let's talk.

02:16:00.000 He's like, come on, let's talk now.

02:16:03.000 Can we hear it?

02:16:05.000 Yeah, it's Michael Johnson.

02:16:09.000 He sounds like he really cares about him, too.

02:16:20.000 You know this, I deserve it.

02:16:24.000 I have to fight for the title.

02:16:25.000 You know this, I deserve it.

02:16:26.000 As he's beating him.

02:16:27.000 Right.

02:16:28.000 Yeah.

02:16:29.000 And he's talking to someone on the sideline.

02:16:31.000 I smashed your boy.

02:16:33.000 The scariest thing that he ever said was about Connor, I want to change his face. 0.91

02:16:40.000 I want to change his face.

02:16:44.000 Jesus.

02:16:46.000 So I heard he's retired, right?

02:16:48.000 Connor?

02:16:48.000 Yeah.

02:16:51.000 You don't buy it, right?

02:16:52.000 If you had to guess?

02:16:54.000 Yeah.

02:16:55.000 He's fighting again.

02:16:56.000 Hans Molenkamp.

02:16:57.000 You know Hans?

02:16:57.000 Mm-hmm.

02:16:58.000 From Monster?

02:16:58.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:16:59.000 He sent me pictures sparring with Conor today.

02:17:01.000 Oh, okay.

02:17:02.000 So, Conor's training.

02:17:04.000 Yeah, I know Hans.

02:17:04.000 He's doing something.

02:17:05.000 He's a monster or something.

02:17:06.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.58

02:17:06.000 Yeah, he works for Monster. 0.58

02:17:08.000 He's training.

02:17:10.000 He's going to fight. 0.99

02:17:11.000 He's probably just fucking with people, you know? 0.97

02:17:13.000 I mean, Conor's a master showman in terms of, like, how to keep people interested in him. 0.99

02:17:18.000 And I just think he just got way out of line with all this Khabib stuff. 1.00

02:17:23.000 But I like the way he takes his losses.

02:17:25.000 Yeah.

02:17:25.000 Oh, he took it well.

02:17:26.000 I like the way he goes out there and talks smack whenever he went.

02:17:29.000 I think from a sports psychology point of view, I think he's developed there. 0.99

02:17:37.000 Yeah, but I don't think the way to get another fight with Khabib is to continue to talk shit after he smashes you. 0.99

02:17:43.000 I mean, he doesn't have any reason to. 1.00

02:17:44.000 You can just talk shit. 1.00

02:17:46.000 He didn't just win. 1.00

02:17:48.000 He smashed and tapped you.

02:17:50.000 There was only one or two moments in the fight where Conor was taking control with some of the striking in the stand-up.

02:17:57.000 You know, and that's another choke. 1.00

02:17:59.000 That's another misunderstood choke, that fulcrum choke that Khabib got Connor with. 0.82

02:18:03.000 That is a legit neck crank.

02:18:05.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:18:05.000 And people that don't think, oh, he tapped to that, like, you would tap to that, too.

02:18:09.000 And if you didn't, you're stupid. 1.00

02:18:10.000 And people are like, yeah, because the chin was down there, right there. 1.00

02:18:12.000 Like, there's a lot of, it generates a lot of force.

02:18:17.000 It can unhinge your jaw, for one.

02:18:19.000 Oh, yeah. 0.93

02:18:20.000 Rip your face apart. 0.96

02:18:21.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:18:22.000 No, that's a legit.

02:18:23.000 That's a legit submission.

02:18:24.000 Yeah, especially with the back of the forearm against the back.

02:18:28.000 The back of your forearm against the guy's back as leveraged, which causes that fulcrum.

02:18:34.000 That's horrific.

02:18:34.000 It's very powerful.

02:18:36.000 Yeah, it hurts bad, man.

02:18:37.000 There's a lot of those neck cranks.

02:18:39.000 You watch people and you just go, please tap.

02:18:43.000 Yeah, there it is right there.

02:18:45.000 You see with Khabib's left arm, the way he's pressing against the back of Conor, and then also yanking on that. 1.00

02:18:52.000 That is ripping his fucking neck apart, man. 0.99

02:18:54.000 Yeah, you never... 1.00

02:18:55.000 Until you felt one, yeah.

02:19:00.000 But Conor, it's interesting that the way he's posted up like that.

02:19:05.000 He's trying to get up and he's getting cranked at the same time.

02:19:09.000 You've got to kind of...

02:19:12.000 He had already been smashed by then, too.

02:19:15.000 He'd been hit with so many big punches from the top.

02:19:18.000 He takes a great shot though, I'll tell you that.

02:19:21.000 But it's just one of those things where I think in order for him to really have a real chance at getting another shot, what he's got to do is beat somebody big and say something that makes Khabib considerate. 0.98

02:19:35.000 But not in the way of what he's been doing in terms of talking shit about him and talking smack.

02:19:43.000 I mean, I think the only way it's going to be public demand, like he's going to have to get to a position where people want to see him fight Khabib again to see that the result may be different this time. 0.98

02:19:53.000 And then maybe if he could just fucking communicate something to him. 0.89

02:19:56.000 Say, you know, I respect you, you know, all trash talk aside, you know, I'd like to test myself against you one more time. 0.98

02:20:03.000 And I think I earned it.

02:20:04.000 I think that's the only way he's going to get it.

02:20:06.000 I think the only way he's going to get it is to win a couple of fights, beat some real big name guys, And then make it so it's something that Khabib's actually interested in.

02:20:15.000 Well, okay, so I don't know if that's the only way, but it's the way that I would like to see. 0.99

02:20:20.000 They already offered it to Khabib, and Khabib said, fuck off. 1.00

02:20:23.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:20:25.000 But like that path that you're talking about, sounds like one that fits good for me.

02:20:30.000 Yeah, I'd like to see it that way.

02:20:31.000 Yeah.

02:20:32.000 Do you think that trash talking in MMA has gone too far?

02:20:35.000 Or do you like it?

02:20:37.000 I mean, well, I think it's entertaining for some people.

02:20:41.000 I think it's not...

02:20:43.000 Well, here, it's hard because it's not...

02:20:50.000 It's not always what I want to see.

02:20:52.000 And it's not, I don't know, it's not the type of person I am, but not everyone's going to be me.

02:20:57.000 That's what makes the world go around.

02:20:59.000 And a lot of people want to see it.

02:21:01.000 And also sometimes it does bring some energy and some, you know, when it's well done, it does bring some energy and some excitement to the fight and to the sport.

02:21:09.000 And at the same time, not every fight, I think what's really interesting and what's really excited about the UFC is that there's a lot of Fights that people want to see that have no bearing on the title.

02:21:22.000 Right.

02:21:23.000 And so there's something to that.

02:21:24.000 Fights that just people want to see.

02:21:26.000 And I think Trash Talk sometimes makes fights that people want to see.

02:21:29.000 Yeah, for sure.

02:21:30.000 Yeah, it makes things emotional.

02:21:32.000 It makes things intense.

02:21:33.000 It's great for selling things.

02:21:35.000 It's great for selling pay-per-views.

02:21:37.000 But the question is, is it good for the sport overall?

02:21:40.000 And should it be something that we encourage?

02:21:41.000 Well, that's the thing.

02:21:44.000 How do we decide what's good for the sport?

02:21:46.000 In what way?

02:21:47.000 Right.

02:21:47.000 How do we decide?

02:21:48.000 Is it good for the way the sport, do you want the sport to look as far as martial arts and being a respectful thing and people looking at us like that?

02:21:56.000 Maybe not.

02:21:57.000 Is it good for the sport or the growth of the sport and for more opportunities for our athletes and for our athletes to become names that draw attention from other people that normally didn't know about it?

02:22:10.000 I don't know.

02:22:10.000 I don't know either.

02:22:14.000 I'm torn.

02:22:15.000 I like both.

02:22:17.000 I like a Lyoto Machida type character that's very respectful and bows and never talks trash and fights just a world champion caliber martial artist. 0.99

02:22:27.000 And I also like a guy who talks mad shit. 0.99

02:22:29.000 I think it's funny. 1.00

02:22:30.000 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

02:22:32.000 I enjoy it.

02:22:32.000 Uh-huh.

02:22:33.000 It's like, I like press conferences for that very reason, where, you know, guys are talking shit to each other, and they're just looking over at each other on the podium, and, you know, it's funny. 0.98

02:22:42.000 Oh, come on. 0.98

02:22:43.000 Some of them, yeah, some of it is hilarious.

02:22:45.000 Yeah.

02:22:45.000 How about Connor when Jeremy Stevens asks him for a fight?

02:22:48.000 He's like, who the fuck is that guy? 0.99

02:22:50.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:22:50.000 No, it was the fact that when he got up, it was like, okay, I don't have time to insult everyone, so let's get them all in one place. 0.99

02:22:58.000 That was great.

02:22:59.000 So I can insult everyone at one time.

02:23:01.000 Let's be efficient.

02:23:02.000 Come on, this is comedy, man.

02:23:04.000 When he was talking about Red Panties Night.

02:23:06.000 Yeah, yeah, that was comedy.

02:23:07.000 We made it, baby.

02:23:08.000 We got that Conor McGregor fight.

02:23:10.000 Come on. 1.00

02:23:12.000 He's a fucking character, man. 1.00

02:23:14.000 Oh, come on. 1.00

02:23:15.000 He's in that weird situation, though, where he really never has to fight again.

02:23:18.000 So you've got to wonder what his motivation is.

02:23:21.000 He has $100 million.

02:23:24.000 He has a gigantic whiskey company.

02:23:27.000 That proper 12 is murdering it. 0.98

02:23:29.000 That place is killing it.

02:23:31.000 That company, they're moving into other countries now.

02:23:34.000 I mean, they're killing it.

02:23:36.000 Hudeau doesn't have to do a thing.

02:23:37.000 Ever.

02:23:39.000 Financially?

02:23:39.000 Right.

02:23:40.000 Unless he wants to eat diamond sandwiches. 0.98

02:23:42.000 He basically could do whatever the fuck he wants for the rest of his life and just live off interest. 0.98

02:23:46.000 But he still likes to fight. 0.98

02:23:49.000 Yeah, I think so.

02:23:50.000 Yeah, I mean, that's what brought him into the Khabib fight. 0.96

02:23:52.000 He didn't have to fight Khabib.

02:23:54.000 But just, you know, how much does he want it?

02:23:56.000 I mean, does he want it the same way a guy like Stylebender wants it or a guy like Calvin Gastelum wants it?

02:24:02.000 And also, I think that, you know, part of wanting it is different, too.

02:24:06.000 Maybe people might want things on their terms, too, on certain terms of the way you get it.

02:24:12.000 Like, some people are like, oh, you'll want it.

02:24:14.000 I want it any way I can get it.

02:24:16.000 Some people might want it and say, well, now I want it this way.

02:24:19.000 Well, he was going to fight Cowboy.

02:24:21.000 That was a fight that they were basically trying to make, but it was going to have to be a co-main event.

02:24:26.000 And because of that, I think Conor was not interested anymore.

02:24:29.000 He wanted it to be a main event.

02:24:31.000 And I'm like, Jesus.

02:24:33.000 Is that really what kept us from Conor vs.

02:24:36.000 Cowboy?

02:24:36.000 Can't you guys work that out?

02:24:37.000 That would have been great, right?

02:24:38.000 Conor vs.

02:24:38.000 Cowboy?

02:24:39.000 Make that a fucking main event. 1.00

02:24:40.000 Make some malarkey title. 1.00

02:24:42.000 Come up with some 160-pound title or some shit. 0.99

02:24:46.000 Just come on, man. 0.99

02:24:47.000 Do it.

02:24:50.000 I mean, they give out these interim titles left and right.

02:24:53.000 How about you come up with some malarkey?

02:24:54.000 Everybody was excited when that was going to happen.

02:24:55.000 Yeah.

02:24:56.000 Yeah, I was excited to see it.

02:24:58.000 165-pound malarkey title.

02:25:00.000 Just come on, man.

02:25:02.000 Conor vs.

02:25:03.000 Cowboy for the title.

02:25:05.000 Make a title up.

02:25:06.000 Or even without a title.

02:25:08.000 Just make it...

02:25:08.000 Yeah, I agree.

02:25:09.000 I don't think it would hurt at all.

02:25:11.000 But apparently Dana says it makes a big difference in the amount of pay-per-views they have. 0.96

02:25:14.000 Oh, okay.

02:25:14.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:25:15.000 But now that they're over at ESPN +, is it really going to be...

02:25:17.000 I mean, how does that work now?

02:25:19.000 You pay every month, and then you pay a little more for the pay-per-view?

02:25:23.000 Is that what it is?

02:25:24.000 Is that how it works?

02:25:24.000 How much more is it?

02:25:26.000 It's just like $5 less or whatever it is that you're paying.

02:25:29.000 So it's $5 less because you're monthly.

02:25:33.000 Yeah, well, that's a good deal if you're into watching all those fights on ESPN+. It is nice.

02:25:38.000 They do have a great library.

02:25:39.000 But so does Fight Pass, right?

02:25:41.000 Where does that put Fight Pass?

02:25:42.000 No, but Fight Pass, I can't see some of the stuff that's on there.

02:25:44.000 Yeah, I know there's stuff on Fight Pass.

02:25:46.000 There's those other...

02:25:47.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:25:47.000 Way more.

02:25:48.000 There's weird, obscure Muay Thai organizations.

02:25:52.000 Yeah, Fight Pass is awesome for the gym.

02:25:54.000 I have a little home gym with Apple TV on it, and I always have Fight Pass on.

02:25:59.000 Kickboxing, watch obscure Muay Thai fights, like right from the arena in Thailand.

02:26:05.000 It's really cool.

02:26:06.000 Like 100-pound guys beating the shit out of each other.

02:26:08.000 Submission wrestling, too.

02:26:09.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

02:26:09.000 A lot of Abu Dhabi stuff is on there.

02:26:11.000 All Eddie Bravo stuff is on there.

02:26:13.000 All the Eddie Bravo Invitational Combat Jiu-Jitsu is on there.

02:26:17.000 Yeah, jiu-jitsu is in a great place right now, too, right?

02:26:20.000 I mean, there's so many different martial arts that are really at the pinnacle right now.

02:26:24.000 I mean, I think this is such an amazing time for a person.

02:26:28.000 Right, yeah.

02:26:28.000 So many people, yeah.

02:26:30.000 Martial arts, yeah, this is a great time for martial arts.

02:26:34.000 Well, you remember when you and I first got into it, there was...

02:26:38.000 I mean, there was nothing like what it is now.

02:26:41.000 Nothing.

02:26:41.000 I mean, martial arts has been around for thousands and thousands of years, and the level of martial arts since 1993 to today is indescribably more powerful today.

02:26:52.000 The athletes are so much better.

02:26:54.000 The fighters are so much more well-rounded.

02:26:56.000 And even in jiu-jitsu, if you go back and watch old jiu-jitsu matches from like 93, of course you're going to have like your Hicks and Gracies and your Higan Machados and John Chalk Machados who are at that elite level even back then where they can hang with guys today.

02:27:09.000 But overall, the game is like so much more complex.

02:27:12.000 And also even just the athleticism you see in it today.

02:27:16.000 I mean, these dudes are some animals.

02:27:18.000 Yeah.

02:27:19.000 No, it's incredible.

02:27:21.000 And I mean, and really what's interesting to me is that you're really only seeing a small percentage of the elite athletes that are available in North America that even decide to get into it.

02:27:32.000 Right, right.

02:27:33.000 Like, if you talk about how many elite athletes decide to go into baseball or NFL or NBA versus how many elite athletes go into cage fighting, it's not even close.

02:27:43.000 Right, right.

02:27:45.000 But starting to get some of them, slowly but surely.

02:27:47.000 Some, a little bit.

02:27:47.000 And some of them are starting to get an interest, and jiu-jitsu's the reason why.

02:27:50.000 Some of them are getting an interest in jiu-jitsu.

02:27:52.000 They train, right?

02:27:53.000 Like, yeah, for cross-training, doing it for something.

02:27:55.000 But just people want to learn it, you know? 0.95

02:27:57.000 I mean, if you're a big guy but you don't know how to fight, that's got to suck. 1.00

02:28:01.000 Big old giant guy doesn't actually know how to fight, like, fuck, man, better learn some of this shit. 1.00

02:28:05.000 Right. 1.00

02:28:07.000 Yeah.

02:28:08.000 It's just, for those big athletes, the really big paydays are at NFL. That's the other thing, too, is that a lot of those guys are bigger than 265 pounds.

02:28:18.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:28:18.000 They would have to cut a lot of weight to make 265, which is, isn't that weird that we have a heavyweight division that you have to weigh in for?

02:28:24.000 Yeah, no, I think that is interesting.

02:28:26.000 But I wonder what the super heavyweight division would look like.

02:28:32.000 It would probably be just a small handful of giant guys.

02:28:36.000 It would probably be like the flyweights, right, in terms of like how – unless Iceland.

02:28:41.000 They get those Iceland strongman dudes.

02:28:43.000 They start fighting MMA.

02:28:44.000 Have you seen – what's his name?

02:28:46.000 The Polish Pujanowski? 0.88

02:28:48.000 Yeah, Pujanowski fights a lot now.

02:28:50.000 I like it.

02:28:51.000 And you know what?

02:28:51.000 Man, you know, when people were kind of, you know, giving them a hard time about it.

02:28:56.000 But man, Pooja, I have a lot of respect for him, man.

02:28:58.000 He fights hard.

02:29:00.000 He put a lot of eyes on our sport.

02:29:03.000 Pujanowski, I'm a fan.

02:29:05.000 He's still fighting.

02:29:06.000 He's gotten way better.

02:29:07.000 He's gotten better.

02:29:08.000 Way smaller.

02:29:09.000 Way leaner. 0.84

02:29:09.000 He never fights any chumps. 0.84

02:29:10.000 No. 0.88

02:29:11.000 And he brings it in.

02:29:12.000 Dude.

02:29:13.000 Here he is.

02:29:14.000 Look at him. 1.00

02:29:14.000 Look at the size of that motherfucker still. 1.00

02:29:17.000 And look at him. 1.00

02:29:17.000 He looks skillful now. 1.00

02:29:19.000 He's moving much better.

02:29:21.000 And here's the thing. 1.00

02:29:23.000 This fucking guy's got balls of steel. 1.00

02:29:25.000 He fought Tim Sylvia, which was ridiculous. 1.00

02:29:30.000 Yeah, I was like, I could not believe that that's who they put him up against as early in his career.

02:29:36.000 That's what I'm saying. 1.00

02:29:37.000 Who the fuck? 0.99

02:29:38.000 That's what I'm like, I'm respect. 1.00

02:29:40.000 I was like, respect.

02:29:41.000 You chose him? 0.98

02:29:42.000 Yeah, but it was ridiculous. 0.93

02:29:43.000 And he chose him very early in his career. 0.94

02:29:47.000 He really didn't have the skills that he has now.

02:29:50.000 And Tim is a world champion.

02:29:54.000 And the type of body that's very hard for Puchinowski.

02:29:57.000 Oh, yeah.

02:29:58.000 Long and tall.

02:30:00.000 Long-limbed wrestler who can put his hands on your hips and control your levers and really make your muscles get fatigued.

02:30:08.000 And make you gas out.

02:30:09.000 It started from the beginning, so you could see what it was like earlier from the beginning. 0.97

02:30:13.000 Tim just started beating the shit out of him once he got tired.

02:30:15.000 But it's interesting because Tim has the opposite of Pujanowska's body. 0.58

02:30:19.000 He doesn't have the best genetics.

02:30:22.000 Just tough.

02:30:23.000 And people think that Pooja's setup is going to be, but actually, it's very hard to fight somebody like Tim.

02:30:30.000 No, very hard.

02:30:31.000 Very hard.

02:30:31.000 Well, he's also got massive experience advantages.

02:30:35.000 Yeah, come on. 0.77

02:30:35.000 I mean, he's fought literally everybody any good all over the world. 0.77

02:30:38.000 He fought Fedor.

02:30:39.000 Yeah.

02:30:40.000 Yeah, and he fought the greats.

02:30:42.000 He fought Andre Arlovsky when Arlovsky was a straight-up murderer.

02:30:45.000 When Arlovsky was in his prime.

02:30:47.000 Randy Couture.

02:30:49.000 You know, when Frank Mir broke his arm and he tried to keep fighting.

02:30:52.000 That's you, too, right?

02:30:53.000 That was you.

02:30:54.000 I remember that.

02:30:55.000 Because I remember the crowd was booing.

02:30:57.000 Like, boo.

02:30:58.000 I was like, guys, you need to look at this.

02:31:00.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:31:00.000 No, that's a...

02:31:01.000 Let me...

02:31:02.000 I will tell you about that.

02:31:03.000 Because that was a fun story.

02:31:04.000 Because, like, they...

02:31:06.000 I hadn't really...

02:31:07.000 It was one of the first times I think they had trusted me with a championship.

02:31:11.000 And, you know, the arm broke.

02:31:13.000 I heard it.

02:31:14.000 I saw it.

02:31:15.000 And I remember, you know, I learned a lot.

02:31:17.000 I learned a lot about my job right then because what I did is I backed off and I let the doctor come in and examine him.

02:31:24.000 Because, like, you know, sometimes when you're dealing with an expert, you don't want to cloud the way.

02:31:28.000 You're supposed to get out of the way.

02:31:29.000 Right.

02:31:29.000 Like, you don't go to the mechanic and tell him what to do.

02:31:31.000 So my mind was thinking like that about the doctor.

02:31:34.000 And so, of course, he comes in.

02:31:35.000 She doesn't know what she saw.

02:31:37.000 So he misguides her and says, I think he's worried about this.

02:31:40.000 And then she's like, hey, no, nothing's wrong.

02:31:42.000 And I was like, oh, man.

02:31:44.000 In my mind, I was thinking it's been great being here, but I'm not going to be doing this anymore.

02:31:49.000 You know what I mean?

02:31:51.000 You made that switch already in your head.

02:31:54.000 I swear, I was like, in my mind, I was thinking that.

02:31:57.000 I was thinking about how to get out of there when they start throwing stuff.

02:32:00.000 Oh, no.

02:32:01.000 Remember, they were over there wrestling with the Samoan security guards trying to get in there.

02:32:05.000 People are screaming.

02:32:06.000 People are screaming.

02:32:07.000 Yeah, here it is.

02:32:08.000 No, that's Minotauro.

02:32:09.000 That's Minotauro.

02:32:10.000 That's his other break.

02:32:12.000 That was an awful one.

02:32:13.000 Yeah, so I was thinking about that, but then you found it.

02:32:18.000 You saved me.

02:32:19.000 I was thinking that my retribution was going to be some kid on the internet two weeks later.

02:32:24.000 I found out his arm was broken, but you found the spot.

02:32:27.000 Well, I was watching the replay, and I was like, let's take a look at this.

02:32:30.000 Hold on, hold on.

02:32:31.000 What's that?

02:32:32.000 Look at his arm.

02:32:33.000 I'm like, that's a broken arm.

02:32:34.000 That arm is broken.

02:32:36.000 Look at that.

02:32:36.000 Watch it one more time.

02:32:37.000 And I had the truck roll it back again.

02:32:39.000 And then I went into the octagon and I remember saying immediately, like, you guys need to watch this.

02:32:44.000 Like, here we go.

02:32:44.000 Let's play this.

02:32:45.000 Here we go.

02:32:46.000 That's a broken arm.

02:32:47.000 So I'm going to thank you for that right there because I think my career path would have been different.

02:32:52.000 Well, that was one of those things where I felt an obligation to not just interview the fighter, but to explain to the entire crowd, like, you gotta listen.

02:33:00.000 I know it looked crazy to me, too.

02:33:02.000 This is a broken arm. 0.99

02:33:04.000 Like, this guy's fucked right now. 0.99

02:33:06.000 Three places. 0.99

02:33:06.000 And Tim thanked you afterwards for saving his career, because he said, if you didn't stop that fight, and that became a compound fracture, fuck, man, horrible things happen when the bone breaks through the skin. 0.99

02:33:16.000 Yeah, I saw that. 0.97

02:33:17.000 I saw him afterwards, and I said, man, did you know your arm was broken?

02:33:21.000 And he told me, he goes, yeah, I know.

02:33:23.000 Well, then what was your plan?

02:33:24.000 Why are you trying to continue?

02:33:25.000 So I knew I had a minute before the pain really became crippling.

02:33:30.000 Here it is, and watch this part.

02:33:32.000 Right, snap, right there.

02:33:34.000 I mean, that is 100% a double...

02:33:37.000 Double break.

02:33:38.000 Both bones of the forearm snapped in half.

02:33:42.000 And it's an unusual break because of where it is. 0.90

02:33:44.000 It just shows you how fucking strong Frank Mir's arm bar is. 0.97

02:33:49.000 And how long-limbed he is. 0.97

02:33:50.000 What was also weird is how his arm went back into place.

02:33:52.000 How young and muscular.

02:33:54.000 I talk to the doctor.

02:33:55.000 They say that happens sometimes with athletes.

02:33:56.000 The muscles just put it right back in.

02:34:00.000 Well, he had a plate put in there forever.

02:34:02.000 It's still in there.

02:34:03.000 Look at me, young, little fresh-faced Joe Rogan.

02:34:06.000 Man, that was...

02:34:07.000 Look how young Frank looks.

02:34:08.000 It's crazy.

02:34:09.000 He looks so lean and young.

02:34:11.000 He's a big old giant dude now.

02:34:14.000 He was a fantastic commentator.

02:34:17.000 Yeah, no, he's a really good commentator.

02:34:19.000 Really good commentator.

02:34:20.000 I'm amazed that no one snatched him up to do commentary.

02:34:23.000 Well, you know, it's funny.

02:34:24.000 He was working for ACA. Yeah?

02:34:25.000 He just stopped, though.

02:34:26.000 He was.

02:34:27.000 He was there for a while.

02:34:28.000 His commentary...

02:34:29.000 What's weird is he always...

02:34:31.000 As a commentary, I like listening to him, his commentary, and also just talking to him.

02:34:36.000 He always comes up with an angle that I never think of.

02:34:39.000 And it makes sense.

02:34:40.000 It's worth hearing.

02:34:40.000 You're always like, what's Frank going to say about this?

02:34:42.000 You know what I mean?

02:34:43.000 Sometimes, yeah, he gets some weird angles.

02:34:45.000 Very smart dude.

02:34:46.000 Very well-read dude, too.

02:34:47.000 Really misunderstood guy in a lot of ways.

02:34:50.000 But Frank...

02:34:52.000 I think it was when he fought Lesnar, either before the first fight or the second fight.

02:34:57.000 I forget which fight it was. 0.99

02:34:59.000 He said he wanted Lesnar to be the first death inside the cage, and the UFC was like, what the fuck are you saying? 0.98

02:35:06.000 And then they pulled him out of the commentary for saying that. 0.97

02:35:09.000 And he's like, look, I'm just talking up a fight.

02:35:11.000 And that was it.

02:35:12.000 He was doing WEC at that point, remember?

02:35:14.000 Right, right, right, right.

02:35:15.000 Dude, he was really good, man.

02:35:16.000 I remember listening to his commentary.

02:35:18.000 I'm like, this guy, I'm a big fan of former fighters doing it.

02:35:23.000 I think they do the best commentary.

02:35:25.000 He does great commentary.

02:35:26.000 Daniel Cormier?

02:35:27.000 Daniel Cormier is fantastic.

02:35:29.000 He's really good.

02:35:30.000 Dominic? 0.60

02:35:30.000 You know who else I like? 0.60

02:35:31.000 I like Dan Hardy.

02:35:33.000 Dan Hardy's excellent at it.

02:35:34.000 Yeah, Dan Hardy's really good.

02:35:35.000 He's actually kind of morphed into...

02:35:37.000 I mean, he really is as solid as anyone, including myself, is doing professional commentary.

02:35:44.000 He's as good as anybody.

02:35:45.000 When we're talking about that...

02:35:46.000 Felder, too.

02:35:46.000 Oh, Felder's good.

02:35:47.000 He's outstanding.

02:35:49.000 That's where I learned, definitely, that when the doctor with the dealer...

02:35:52.000 That they don't know what we all take for granted, that it's the arm.

02:35:56.000 So that was kind of my fault for it.

02:35:57.000 Now, I... Definitely always tell them, look, this is exactly what happened.

02:36:01.000 This is what I'm worried about.

02:36:02.000 This particular part, you know?

02:36:04.000 Oh, yeah.

02:36:04.000 That's got to be huge for you because, like, if a woman gets into the octagon or a man and they don't know anything about the sport, they're just there because they're a doctor.

02:36:13.000 Right, right. 0.98

02:36:14.000 Yeah, they would have no idea what the fuck happened. 0.94

02:36:15.000 Yeah, and I didn't even... 0.97

02:36:16.000 I know it seems like that should be the first thing I thought about, but, yeah, I didn't.

02:36:20.000 Long-ass time ago, bro.

02:36:22.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:36:23.000 How many fights do you think you've called?

02:36:25.000 Oh, thousands, man.

02:36:27.000 Thousands?

02:36:27.000 Thousands.

02:36:28.000 Yeah, thousands.

02:36:29.000 Isn't that crazy?

02:36:30.000 Yeah.

02:36:30.000 You should really stop and think about all that experience.

02:36:33.000 Do you do seminars for young up-and-coming referees?

02:36:37.000 I do.

02:36:37.000 I just did it this weekend.

02:36:38.000 Yeah, where at?

02:36:39.000 In Pasadena.

02:36:40.000 Oh.

02:36:41.000 So, you know, you can go on my website, find out about HerbDean.com.

02:36:44.000 Also, you can follow me at HerbDeanMMA on Instagram.

02:36:47.000 That's where I usually do stuff.

02:36:49.000 Yeah, we link that on the Instagram page when I posted the picture of you with the blowtorch.

02:36:52.000 Oh, okay.

02:36:53.000 All right, cool.

02:36:54.000 I'm going to see this explosion of followers right here.

02:36:57.000 It's coming, baby.

02:36:57.000 It's coming.

02:36:58.000 It's coming.

02:36:58.000 Explosion.

02:36:59.000 Yeah, no, so I do it.

02:37:00.000 I just did it.

02:37:03.000 It's a cool thing because I like doing it because it makes me better every time.

02:37:07.000 It makes me have to think about things.

02:37:10.000 We spend three days doing it.

02:37:12.000 They say that about teaching anything, right?

02:37:14.000 Yeah.

02:37:15.000 It makes me a lot better.

02:37:17.000 I always dread it when I'm going to do it because...

02:37:22.000 Sometimes I just dread doing it.

02:37:24.000 And then I haven't finished the hold-up part.

02:37:26.000 The other part I don't like is I have to say no because it's for a certificate.

02:37:30.000 And the certificate is what you need a certificate to get licensed.

02:37:35.000 And so some people aren't going to achieve the certificate.

02:37:39.000 So they can come and, you know, take the seminar, but there is screening.

02:37:43.000 Right.

02:37:44.000 Yeah, so the first day, we go over a bunch of stuff.

02:37:48.000 Then they teach me some technique, and you know what I mean?

02:37:51.000 And so we understand that they understand what's going on in there.

02:37:54.000 And so as far as for judging how to evaluate what these guys are actually doing, and then...

02:38:00.000 So when you say they teach you technique, you'll say to them, hey, show me how to set up a triangle?

02:38:06.000 So we do it in Pasadena.

02:38:09.000 So I do it at the Courtyard Marriott.

02:38:11.000 Right there we've got a classroom.

02:38:13.000 Then I can walk two blocks down and take one block to the right and be at Savant Young's Fight Academy.

02:38:19.000 Go right there.

02:38:20.000 Step straight onto the mat.

02:38:22.000 We do a warm-up where we get to see a lot of stuff.

02:38:24.000 Okay, yeah, show me arm drag. 0.58

02:38:25.000 Show me this.

02:38:26.000 We get a lot of information right there.

02:38:27.000 We take a few notes.

02:38:28.000 All right, yeah, show me a pass.

02:38:29.000 Show me that.

02:38:30.000 Show me that.

02:38:30.000 Then I have them, yeah, teach me a triangle.

02:38:33.000 Teach me by the numbers.

02:38:34.000 Teach me, you know, as it was taught to you.

02:38:37.000 And I don't care if you learned it on the Internet, but why do you like it?

02:38:40.000 And maybe what do you do different to make it work for you?

02:38:42.000 And just talk me through it.

02:38:43.000 Give me as much information as I can.

02:38:45.000 One guy this weekend took my course and he gave me so much.

02:38:48.000 I mean, I couldn't wait every time he was going.

02:38:50.000 He was really good.

02:38:51.000 He was a really detailed instructor, but he was really good.

02:38:55.000 But I got a lot of information from some of the other people who I thought was going to be good because in the beginning we tell why we're here.

02:39:01.000 It sounded like I had a high-level class.

02:39:03.000 A lot of them weren't.

02:39:06.000 They didn't know enough about position and submission.

02:39:11.000 How many guys do you think want to be referees but have no experience in martial arts?

02:39:16.000 Well, I think there is a lot.

02:39:18.000 I think it's common, you know.

02:39:19.000 On my website, it lets people know, like, hey, physical demonstration of MMA technique is required to achieve certification.

02:39:27.000 You can come out and, you know, take the seminar if that's fun for you, which is cool.

02:39:32.000 My hat's off to you, you know, because there's a lot you can do at your weekend.

02:39:35.000 But if you want the certificate, You need to understand the techniques.

02:39:38.000 Yeah.

02:39:39.000 At a level that, you know.

02:39:40.000 That you can teach.

02:39:41.000 Yeah.

02:39:42.000 At a detailed level enough because you have to understand the details to make it successful.

02:39:46.000 And that's why you have to, if you're going to evaluate it as a judge, you know, you have to know why it wasn't successful.

02:39:51.000 You're going to have to be able to talk it through why you gave credit to something or didn't give credit to something.

02:39:55.000 So this is for judging and refereeing?

02:39:57.000 Judging and refereeing.

02:39:58.000 So the first day I do is judging, and then the judges, the referees, for my, the way I do my certificate, if you want to be a referee, you have to be able to judge also, because everyone assumes that you can, and they'll throw you in the judge's seat, so you have a judging training.

02:40:13.000 Oh, if you do a small show or something like that?

02:40:16.000 Yeah.

02:40:18.000 We used to have this thing where Eddie Bravo used to score the fights between rounds.

02:40:24.000 It was excellent.

02:40:25.000 What was good about it is Eddie would break it down on a piece of paper.

02:40:29.000 He would have a right column and a left column.

02:40:31.000 Right column would be you, left column would be Jamie.

02:40:34.000 And then he would write, okay, Herb took him down three times.

02:40:36.000 Herb almost got an arm bar.

02:40:39.000 Herb landed five lay kicks.

02:40:41.000 Jamie cried a lot.

02:40:42.000 That's what it would say.

02:40:43.000 No.

02:40:44.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:40:45.000 It would say, and then he would add it up, and he would say, this is why I think he won the round.

02:40:49.000 This guy had better position, but this guy landed the big shots.

02:40:52.000 This guy got hurt, but he almost got caught in a submission.

02:40:56.000 So I gave it real close, but I gave it 10-9 to this guy.

02:40:59.000 So you would get a better understanding of how Howard Letterman used to do it.

02:41:02.000 Harold Letterman used to do it for HBO Boxing.

02:41:04.000 And I think that's a good thing.

02:41:05.000 So that's one of the things we don't really have in our sport, or the way we...

02:41:12.000 We don't really score it because we don't have like a rubric where we're given an assigned value for techniques as they happen.

02:41:17.000 So that's not what we're doing.

02:41:19.000 And also, but I think that's a good idea for training.

02:41:23.000 It's hard to do it the way Eddie does that live doing around because who can write all that without taking your eyes off for a second?

02:41:30.000 And you take your eyes off just for one second, you might miss something that was huge, you know?

02:41:36.000 And so that's why a lot of commissions, you know, Well, I think Eddie, what he did was he had, like, he wrote kicks, punches, takedowns.

02:41:44.000 Right, right.

02:41:44.000 He has a shorthand system, I guess, right?

02:41:46.000 He put X's on the sides.

02:41:48.000 Every time someone took someone down, he put a little X there.

02:41:50.000 And I encourage people to do that, and so that's what I do.

02:41:52.000 Like, you know, I tell them, you know, I show them other, like, different people have different systems of shorthand to take some notes.

02:41:59.000 Because in the back, you're going to want to have some notes, especially when...

02:42:04.000 When the matches are done, they'd say there's a split decision or there's a split round, there's an outside judge.

02:42:10.000 Everybody's going to be getting their game together, their reasons why they gave it that way.

02:42:15.000 So you're going to have to be able to talk about it.

02:42:18.000 So that's a good way of scoring a round, is preparing yourself to be able to talk about what you actually saw and what happened.

02:42:25.000 Yeah.

02:42:26.000 In context to the scoring criteria.

02:42:27.000 That's awesome.

02:42:28.000 And then this certificate is from you?

02:42:31.000 Is that how it works?

02:42:32.000 It's from me, but recognized by certain organizations that are going to make it so that you can get a job.

02:42:38.000 So it's from me, and here in the United States is recognized by the Association of Boxing Commissions.

02:42:43.000 And if you're going to apply to, let's say, Camo here in California, you're going to have to have a certificate of training before you apply to the amateur or before you apply to, let's say, the boxing commission out in Tennessee to the athletic commission out there or the athletic commission in Nevada.

02:43:00.000 They're only going to hire people who have taken a course that's recognized.

02:43:05.000 Big John does one as well.

02:43:06.000 Yeah.

02:43:07.000 A couple of other people do them.

02:43:09.000 That's excellent.

02:43:10.000 Yeah.

02:43:11.000 Yeah, Big John's is coming up in June, that fight week weekend.

02:43:15.000 He does a big one, June 6th and 7th.

02:43:16.000 I just did mine.

02:43:18.000 June 6th and 7th, where at?

02:43:20.000 He does in Nevada.

02:43:21.000 In Vegas?

02:43:22.000 If you look for his social media, you'll find it.

02:43:24.000 Is there a UFC card that weekend?

02:43:26.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:43:26.000 That's why he does it then.

02:43:28.000 Yeah, makes sense.

02:43:29.000 I'm giving a plug to my competition, but it's okay.

02:43:32.000 It's okay.

02:43:33.000 At the end of the day, we want people to get some good training and get information.

02:43:35.000 Well, Big John is not competition anymore.

02:43:37.000 Now he's a commentator.

02:43:38.000 Yeah, but for my training.

02:43:40.000 He's never as competition as a referee.

02:43:42.000 We're trying to do it, but as far as for my course, I want people to take my course.

02:43:46.000 But if they're not going to take mine, I want them to take his.

02:43:48.000 No, he's awesome, too.

02:43:50.000 Yeah, no, that's...

02:43:50.000 There's a few guys that I get very excited when I see that they're refereeing a big fight.

02:43:55.000 I'm like, whew.

02:43:56.000 Okay, I don't have to worry about that.

02:43:58.000 Definitely.

02:43:58.000 Big John, I know...

02:44:00.000 Yeah, I've always felt very comfortable. 0.98

02:44:03.000 Damn, he's been in there from the very beginning. 0.98

02:44:05.000 Yeah, from the beginning. 0.99

02:44:06.000 I mean, there is not a person alive that has more old-school credibility than Big John.

02:44:12.000 And more high-level fights.

02:44:13.000 Oh, yeah, man.

02:44:14.000 And he's seen it all.

02:44:16.000 The good, the bad.

02:44:17.000 You remember Murillo Bustamante versus Matt Lindland?

02:44:21.000 Oh, yeah.

02:44:22.000 He had to tap him twice.

02:44:24.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:44:24.000 Big John stopped it, and then Matt Lindland complained that they let him fight again.

02:44:29.000 I'm like, no!

02:44:29.000 Oh, you're going to go bring up that old man.

02:44:32.000 What about the other one, too, right?

02:44:35.000 Conan and Sakuraba.

02:44:36.000 Oh, yeah, Conan Sakuraba in Japan.

02:44:38.000 Yeah, the Japanese made them fight again on the same night. 0.98

02:44:42.000 When the fuck has that ever happened? 0.97

02:44:44.000 It's not going to happen again. 0.99

02:44:45.000 Never!

02:44:45.000 And that was from a punch, too.

02:44:47.000 Stopped from a punch, right?

02:44:49.000 He dropped down, grabbed ahold of the ankle, Conan hit him with a punch.

02:44:53.000 It looked like he fell.

02:44:53.000 But that's the way Sakuraba shoots.

02:44:55.000 He shoots like this.

02:44:57.000 It looks like he's going out.

02:45:00.000 Yeah.

02:45:01.000 And then caught Conan in an arm bar in the second fight.

02:45:05.000 The second time they fought that night.

02:45:06.000 That night.

02:45:07.000 And that was like crazy.

02:45:08.000 We couldn't believe a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt could get tapped.

02:45:11.000 We're like, what?

02:45:12.000 What?

02:45:12.000 And Sakuraba, who's smaller than him, what?

02:45:15.000 What?

02:45:16.000 And then we realized who Sakuraba was.

02:45:18.000 Yeah, man.

02:45:18.000 Sakuraba was.

02:45:19.000 He, to me, really carried the flag of catch wrestling, the Carl Gotch style of submission holds, more so than probably anybody else that ever fought in MMA. Oh, yeah.

02:45:32.000 Yeah, definitely.

02:45:33.000 His style was all kimuras and arm bars. 0.82

02:45:36.000 Remember when he used to tape his legs up?

02:45:38.000 It looked like the guy could barely walk, man.

02:45:40.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:45:41.000 How the fuck was he fighting so good? 1.00

02:45:42.000 His legs would be mummified. 0.99

02:45:44.000 And he's doing submission wrestling now, right?

02:45:46.000 Yes!

02:45:46.000 He's fighting quintet.

02:45:48.000 Right, right.

02:45:48.000 Yeah.

02:45:50.000 Yeah, he fought, his crew fought Eddie Bravo's crew.

02:45:55.000 Right, no.

02:45:56.000 My friend Richie tapped him.

02:45:58.000 My friend Richie Martinez.

02:45:59.000 Boogie Man?

02:45:59.000 Boogie Man, yeah.

02:46:00.000 Okay, yeah.

02:46:00.000 That's a lot for...

02:46:02.000 Boogie's a bad motherfucker. 1.00

02:46:03.000 A lot to deal with. 1.00

02:46:03.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:46:04.000 Unless you're a 100% full-time grappler.

02:46:07.000 And Boogie's got nasty Darce jokes, man. 0.98

02:46:09.000 I caught him in a Darce. 0.99

02:46:09.000 Yeah, and Boogie's got all that breakdance and weird, and he's always big ass. 0.99

02:46:14.000 His flexibility is ridiculous. 0.99

02:46:16.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:46:16.000 And his dexterity is ridiculous. 0.99

02:46:18.000 Yeah, so I feel like, you know, there's some people you say, okay, he's good.

02:46:21.000 Then there's some people you look at as so, like, I've never got to, you know, roll with him, but he looks like one of those people that, like, you don't know what it feels like until you feel it.

02:46:31.000 Yeah, he's very strong.

02:46:33.000 Yeah.

02:46:33.000 His brother is too.

02:46:34.000 Gio's very strong too.

02:46:36.000 But then they came from that breakdancing background where they just have the ability to manipulate their body.

02:46:41.000 It's almost like a gymnast.

02:46:42.000 Right, right, exactly.

02:46:43.000 But maybe even more so because they do a lot of stuff where they're standing on one arm and bouncing around in the lotus position.

02:46:49.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:46:49.000 They're on one arm, like one arm handstand with their legs crisscrossed up in the air and they're bouncing around.

02:46:54.000 It makes you want to give up.

02:46:58.000 There's no need for me to do this.

02:47:00.000 Keep with that yoga, man.

02:47:01.000 You're going to be amazed if you keep with it how much dexterity improves and your balance improves and everything.

02:47:06.000 But we were talking about it before the podcast started that it's so good for your old injuries, especially that hot yoga.

02:47:15.000 I'm probably a little bit annoying right now.

02:47:18.000 I'm like a little Bikram yoga evangelist.

02:47:23.000 Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu blue belts.

02:47:26.000 I've been born again.

02:47:27.000 I love, you know, Bikram yoga.

02:47:29.000 Yeah, I'm guilty as charged. 1.00

02:47:32.000 I do that shit all the time. 0.99

02:47:33.000 I do that with everything I like, though. 1.00

02:47:35.000 I get annoying.

02:47:36.000 It's fun, though.

02:47:37.000 I've been doing it in other countries, too.

02:47:39.000 Oh, really?

02:47:40.000 When I take those breaks, that's what gets me, you know...

02:47:44.000 It derails me.

02:47:44.000 So I'm like, you know, I'm going to do the extra work, find a place when I get there.

02:47:48.000 So I got to go do it in Prague and Warsaw and St. Petersburg.

02:47:54.000 And there's a little different flavor, you know what I mean?

02:47:55.000 So it's cool.

02:47:56.000 That's dope. 0.93

02:47:57.000 Yeah, I'm a big fan.

02:47:59.000 I like to do it on the road, too.

02:48:00.000 Mostly I do it at home.

02:48:02.000 But it's just...

02:48:04.000 It also, that strain of that 90 minutes, I think is like meditative.

02:48:08.000 There's no music.

02:48:09.000 You're just in the poses for 90 minutes.

02:48:11.000 It's cleansing.

02:48:11.000 Yeah.

02:48:12.000 Releases all the bullshit you hold on to in your brain. 1.00

02:48:16.000 Yeah, no, it does, yeah. 1.00

02:48:17.000 Sweeps that out the door.

02:48:18.000 No, it helps with all that.

02:48:20.000 Herb Dean, we've been talking for three hours.

02:48:22.000 Oh, really? 1.00

02:48:22.000 Can you believe that shit? 1.00

02:48:23.000 Wow. 1.00

02:48:24.000 Crazy. 0.87

02:48:24.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0.87

02:48:25.000 Flew by.

02:48:26.000 Hey, but you know what?

02:48:26.000 Actually, it's kind of cool because we hang out with each other a lot, but this is the first time we got to talk for three hours.

02:48:31.000 I know, right?

02:48:31.000 Every time we talk.

02:48:32.000 We've been seeing each other for years.

02:48:33.000 Yeah, every time we talk.

02:48:33.000 We get some dinner together or hang out at the fights.

02:48:36.000 It's like brief conversations.

02:48:37.000 Yeah, it's brief.

02:48:38.000 It's at the airport.

02:48:39.000 You know what I mean?

02:48:39.000 I'm pissed that you're not going to be in Atlanta this weekend, man.

02:48:42.000 Yeah. 0.99

02:48:43.000 Damn. 1.00

02:48:44.000 Yeah, I know. 1.00

02:48:45.000 What the fuck? 0.99

02:48:46.000 How does that work? 1.00

02:48:47.000 How do you know when you do and don't get contracts?

02:48:49.000 Sometimes they call me, and there's some athletic commissions I know are going to call me.

02:48:53.000 Atlanta, I thought, would be one of those, because I've usually done it when they've been there, I've done it.

02:48:57.000 How often do they tell you in advance?

02:48:59.000 They don't tell me that.

02:49:00.000 Sometimes they tell me far, sometimes not so far.

02:49:02.000 So some commissioners, they get on board.

02:49:06.000 I got called about...

02:49:11.000 Minnesota.

02:49:12.000 Pretty early.

02:49:13.000 He reached out.

02:49:14.000 He was aggressive about getting me on there.

02:49:15.000 He was like, man, I really appreciate that.

02:49:17.000 Figured like, yeah, the man wants to make sure I'm there.

02:49:20.000 This Brazil show that's coming up.

02:49:22.000 Cristiano, the commissioner, he reached out to me a long time ago.

02:49:25.000 Beautiful.

02:49:25.000 And said, hey, man, I want to make sure you're at this show.

02:49:27.000 Who's on that card?

02:49:28.000 Who?

02:49:29.000 The Brazil card.

02:49:30.000 Let me see who's on that card.

02:49:31.000 Let's look that up.

02:49:33.000 Let's see who's on that card.

02:49:34.000 I think there's some good fights there.

02:49:36.000 Isn't Aldo fighting on that card?

02:49:37.000 He's got like a big fight on that card.

02:49:40.000 Aldo's in a comeback surge right now after knocking out Renato Moicano.

02:49:44.000 I mean, that was gigantic.

02:49:47.000 It might not be labeled yet.

02:49:50.000 Sometimes the UFC doesn't put it up on its website.

02:49:54.000 They don't put it up.

02:49:56.000 What's that?

02:49:57.000 Oh, Rose.

02:49:59.000 Is that Jessica Andrade?

02:50:01.000 Oh, yeah.

02:50:03.000 That girl's a little pitbull. 1.00

02:50:07.000 Jessica Andrade is terrifying. 0.99

02:50:10.000 Did you see that knockout of Karolina Kivakovic?

02:50:13.000 Yeah.

02:50:14.000 She KO'd her with that overhand right. 1.00

02:50:15.000 Jesus.

02:50:16.000 Anderson Silva and Jared Cannoneer. 1.00

02:50:18.000 Holy shit. 0.99

02:50:20.000 Aldo, that's right, Volkanovski. 1.00

02:50:23.000 That's a fucking fight. 0.99

02:50:25.000 Aldo and Alexander Volkanovski. 1.00

02:50:27.000 Volkanovski is a fucking juggernaut. 0.98

02:50:31.000 Little Nog still throwing down all these years later against Ryan Spann, Thiago Alves, against Staropoli. 0.99

02:50:40.000 I don't know that gentleman.

02:50:42.000 Man.

02:50:43.000 P.J. Penn versus Clay Guido.

02:50:45.000 What?

02:50:46.000 What? 1.00

02:50:49.000 Damn. 1.00

02:50:50.000 Okay. 1.00

02:50:51.000 Alright.

02:50:51.000 That's a good card, man.

02:50:52.000 What day is that, Jamie?

02:50:53.000 May 11th. 1.00

02:50:54.000 Oh, shit. 0.99

02:50:55.000 Might have to have a fight companion. 0.99

02:50:56.000 We haven't had a fight companion in forever.

02:50:58.000 Herb, you should sit in on one of those if you're in town, man.

02:51:01.000 I would love to.

02:51:01.000 They're the best.

02:51:03.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:51:03.000 Okay.

02:51:04.000 People get ridiculously hammered.

02:51:05.000 And if Eddie Bravo starts throwing around conspiracy theories, you've got to check your watch.

02:51:10.000 Right, right, right. 0.99

02:51:11.000 Damn, look at the time. 0.99

02:51:12.000 So, yeah, we'll drink some beers and stuff like that. 0.99

02:51:14.000 Did you say it's May 11th, Jamie?

02:51:16.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:51:17.000 I'm open right now.

02:51:18.000 Maybe we can make it happen.

02:51:20.000 But I'll be there.

02:51:21.000 You'll be there.

02:51:22.000 Oh, you will be there.

02:51:22.000 I found out ahead of time.

02:51:24.000 Oh, that's right.

02:51:25.000 Brazilian one.

02:51:26.000 Okay.

02:51:26.000 We'll get you in for one of these.

02:51:28.000 We should get...

02:51:28.000 Because most of the time, it's not the four of us.

02:51:31.000 Most of the time, it's like two or three.

02:51:32.000 And so we always...

02:51:33.000 We have room for others.

02:51:35.000 Okay. 1.00

02:51:35.000 You're bad, motherfucker. 1.00

02:51:36.000 I appreciate you. 1.00

02:51:37.000 Thank you so much for having me on, man.

02:51:38.000 Always cool hanging with you.

02:51:39.000 Herb Dean, ladies and gentlemen.

02:51:41.000 And tell people how they can find you on Twitter and Instagram.

02:51:43.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:51:44.000 Herb Dean MMA. On everything?

02:51:46.000 Yeah, on everything.

02:51:46.000 And HerbDean.com.

02:51:47.000 Find out about your course.

02:51:49.000 Yep, yep, yep.

02:51:49.000 Thank you, brother.

The Joe Rogan Experience - December 08, 2010

JRE MMA Show #61 with Herb Dean

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Transcript